# Anyone using a 64Core Threadripper and Cubase?



## jononotbono (Jun 12, 2020)

Just wondering if anyone here is using a 64 Core Threadripper with Cubase?

I’m still pondering a PC build and started looking at Threadripper instead of Ryzen.

Anyone have any experience with Threadripper?

On paper this 64Core 3990X beast seems too good to be true.


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## funnybear (Jun 12, 2020)

I am using the 32 core 3970x with Cubase (10.5.20). Total beast. I have been meaning to write up a post on my build and add some Cubase benchmarks.

The 3990x has a different chiplet design (eight 8-core chiplets) vs the 3970x (four 8-core chiplets) vs the 3950x (two 8-core chiplets). Theory being that the more chiplets on the CPU the more latency from the data flows between the chiplets / IO die / CPU cache. 

Pete from Scan recently benchmarked the current AMD CPUs and decided not to include the Threadrippers in the tests as he was getting issues running the tests on them. But my experience with the 3970x tells a very different story and maybe my build is optimised compared to what Pete was using.

So possibly the 3990x might work well too. Only way knowing is from first hand usage and see full build details.


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## jononotbono (Jun 12, 2020)

Well the studio I work at has given me the budget to build a PC so I am seriously considering the 3990X. I’m also wondering about what is going to be released later this year as well.

How is the performance with Cubase and the 3970X?

I was looking initially at Ryzen 3950x because it had 16 cores and each core clocked around 4.5ghz which I thought would be excellent.

Then Intel just released their 10 Core 10900X and with each core clocked at a whopping 5.3ghz. Part of me thinks that would make Cubase perform incredibly well but wouldn’t it just be badass to have 64cores (providing Cubase works well with it)? 😂


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## Architekton (Jun 12, 2020)

Go with strongest Ryzen and save your money for something else, like libraries! Also, in autumn Ryzen series 4000 comes out which will have (accoring to rumours on hw sites) like 30 to 40% more power than gen 3!


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## funnybear (Jun 12, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> How is the performance with Cubase and the 3970X?



I am using it with an RME Babyface Pro and am able to saturate the CPU to about 85% before dropouts and glitches (i.e. when the ASIO realtime meter in Cubase peaks). This is using a 256 ASIO buffer.

It obviously depends on your workflow and what kind of plugins / VSTis / bussing etc you use.

Happy to run a Cubase test project for you on my machine if you want to send something. Either using stock plugins or some VSTis / Kontakt libs if I have them on my machine.


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## jononotbono (Jun 12, 2020)

funnybear said:


> I am using it with an RME Babyface Pro and am able to saturate the CPU to about 85% before dropouts and glitches (i.e. when the ASIO realtime meter in Cubase peaks). This is using a 256 ASIO buffer.
> 
> It obviously depends on your workflow and what kind of plugins / VSTis / bussing etc you use.
> 
> Happy to run a Cubase test project for you on my machine if you want to send something. Either using stock plugins or some VSTis / Kontakt libs if I have them on my machine.



Thanks. Everything J have set up at the minute is via VEPro machines so it’s not simple to give you a project. What kind of size projects Are you running with this machine?

Are you able to run multiple instances of Onnisphere2, U-He synths, many instrument tracks with Kontakt, Reverb’s, Sound Toys, Fab Filter? All these usual suspects. UAD2 is great being DSP so that’s that’s not a concern at all.

Well, actually, getting a MoBo with TB3 to run my Apollo Twin X is actually a concern so I need to consider that actually.


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## jononotbono (Jun 12, 2020)

Architekton said:


> Go with strongest Ryzen and save your money for something else, like libraries! Also, in autumn Ryzen series 4000 comes out which will have (accoring to rumours on hw sites) like 30 to 40% more power than gen 3!



That’s a good point!


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## funnybear (Jun 12, 2020)

Not sure but I think the only Threadripper motherboard with built in TB3 is the Gigabyte TRX40 Designare. But could be wrong as I don't use TB3.

In terms of plugins I got most of the usual suspects but not all 

If you want to use something from your list, how about: Omnisphere 2, U-He, Kontakt (KK12, OT Arcs / Time Micro/Macro, SA Albions / Chamber Strings / LCOS / HZP, Cinematic Studio libs.)? In terms of effects plugins either stock or iZotope.


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## José Herring (Jun 12, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Thanks. Everything J have set up at the minute is via VEPro machines so it’s not simple to give you a project. What kind of size projects Are you running with this machine?



It's simple. Create a simple instrument track with a 16 bar loop using one of Cubase stock plugins. I usually arpeggiate a 16th note pattern. You can use any plugin as long as he has the same one.

Duplicate that track until your current machine caves. Then send that project and have him do the same until his machine caves. That will give you a good estimate on the difference.


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## MartinH. (Jun 12, 2020)

funnybear said:


> I am using it with an RME Babyface Pro and am able to saturate the CPU to about 85% before dropouts and glitches (i.e. when the ASIO realtime meter in Cubase peaks). This is using a 256 ASIO buffer.



Do you have any actual projects that get close to that? I'm wondering what real benefits a 32 core CPU has. I do reach limits with my many years old i7 quadcore, but a modern 32 core CPU seems overpowered for what I'd need from it for audio work.


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## funnybear (Jun 12, 2020)

josejherring said:


> It's simple.



Yes and no. Every plugin behaves differently in a multi-core environment and even if one can run 100s of Padshops, it does not mean performance will scale equally well when running Uhe plugins or Kontakt plugins loaded with scripting intensive libs such as OT.

Everybody's projects are different but in my case tracks are about 80% Kontakt and 20% VSTis plus effects. So seeing how Kontakt scales on my machine was key for me when doing the build.


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## Architekton (Jun 12, 2020)

josejherring said:


> It's simple. Create a simple instrument track with a 16 bar loop using one of Cubase stock plugins. I usually arpeggiate a 16th note pattern. You can use any plugin as long as he has the same one.
> 
> Duplicate that track until your current machine caves. Then send that project and have him do the same until his machine caves. That will give you a good estimate on the difference.



That actually doesnt say a lot because they need to have exact same audio interface and same drivers. Its well known that RME has best drivers, so that means, if we have same PC but you have some other interface than RME, I am sure I will run more instances of plugins than you. And thats just one aspect. Other aspect is also sample rate and buffer size...etc etc


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## funnybear (Jun 12, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Do you have any actual projects that get close to that? I'm wondering what real benefits a 32 core CPU has. I do reach limits with my many years old i7 quadcore, but a modern 32 core CPU seems overpowered for what I'd need from it for audio work.



Not when purely loading VSTis and with most FX chains at the moment. But the performance headroom is key. I don't like using slaves like VEPro for various reasons and plugins are becoming more CPU hungry then not. And I don't want to rebuild a machine every 2 years.


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## Technostica (Jun 12, 2020)

Due to power limits and probably other factors the 64 core version doesn’t scale that well for some workloads.
So unless you are using software that pegs all cores at 100% and scales well I’d look at the 32 core chip. For Cubase that should give loads of headroom.
The jury still seems to be out on TR as a DAW chip though as already mentioned.



jononotbono said:


> Then Intel just released their 10 Core 10900X and with each core clocked at a whopping 5.3ghz.


5.3 is best case scenario for 1 or maybe 2 cores. All core is 4.8/4.9 depending on circumstances. You might get 5.1 all core via an over-clock but at that point the chip may well be using over 300W.



Architekton said:


> in autumn Ryzen series 4000 comes out which will have (accoring to rumours on hw sites) like 30 to 40% more power than gen 3!


The not yet released Zen 3 chiplets which will be in the desktop 4000 CPUs (No GPU) are quoted as having around a 17% IPC gain.
The Ryzen 4000 laptop (released) and 4000 desktop APUs (very soon to be released) still use the Zen 2 cores. Confusing hey!
What’s not known is how this IPC gain will translate to the next TR platform which will use Zen 3.
Possibly the biggest gain with Zen 3 is that the 8 core chiplet has a unified cache hierarchy which helps latency; this is a first for a Zen chiplet.
Not sure how much this will impact a TR chip with 4 or 8 chiplets!
If 16C Ryzen isn’t enough then I’d go for the 32C TR and wait to see how Zen 3 pans out in next gen TR.


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## samphony (Jun 12, 2020)

As a mac user I’m planning to get a 3950x build but was close to consider going the 3970x route but i want a whisper quiet rack system as i don’t have a machine room in my current studio.


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## marius_dm (Jun 12, 2020)

Damn, and I was thinking I splurged on my 9900k. I’m not convinced you need $3,500 CPU just to run a bunch of Kontakt instances unless you also do video rendering and whatnot. But a 3990x definitely looks great on paper.


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## jononotbono (Jun 12, 2020)

Another thing I’m noticing with Threadripper is that max ram amount seems to be 256gb. Is this right? I’m hoping for at least 512gb with that many cores!


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## jononotbono (Jun 12, 2020)

marius_dm said:


> Damn, and I was thinking I splurged on my 9900k.



I was going to get one... until Intel released 10th Gen and then I started thinking about the power of Ryzen and now Threadripper. Never-ending decisions to make after each decision.


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## Technostica (Jun 12, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Another thing I’m noticing with Threadripper is that max ram amount seems to be 256gb. Is this right? I’m hoping for at least 512gb with that many cores!


You'd need to move to EPYC to get more RAM. Then you'd be looking at 2TB I think.


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## Virtuoso (Jun 12, 2020)

Look at PCIe lanes too - 64 vs 24 I think. Important if you want to run tons of internal NVMe storage or multiple GPUs (not for Cubase obviously).


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## jononotbono (Jun 12, 2020)

EPYC is too pricey for this build. Especially as I don't even know if Cubase will run well. Hmmm, I just had another sniff around and apparently both 3970X and 3990X support 512gb of RAM. That would do I guess.


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## Technostica (Jun 12, 2020)

You'd need 64GB sticks which means server RAM so you'd have to be careful and buy a board that has a validation list for such sticks.
Most boards aren't validated for ECC memory which is why they say 256 max. 
Unless 64GB non ECC sticks are already out?


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## jononotbono (Jun 12, 2020)

Technostica said:


> You'd need 64GB sticks which means server RAM so you'd have to be careful and buy a board that has a validation list for such sticks.
> Most boards aren't validated for ECC memory which is why they say 256 max.
> Unless 64GB non ECC sticks are already out?



I thought 128 ECC sticks are out. More research needed but I'm pretty sure they exist


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## jononotbono (Jun 12, 2020)

This stuff is so confusing. On PC Part picker it says 1024gb of RAM supported for the 3990X...


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## Technostica (Jun 12, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I thought 128 ECC sticks are out. More research needed but I'm pretty sure they exist


They are but the issue here is what the TR boards are validated for. 
You can wing it on a basic build but do you want to do so on one costing up to 10k?


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## samphony (Jun 13, 2020)

As far as i know TR supports up to 2TB ram. You’ll need a server board. Some of themhave 7 pcie slots like the new mac pro.


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## Technostica (Jun 13, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I thought 128 ECC sticks are out. More research needed but I'm pretty sure they exist


There are different variants of server RAM and TR only supports the most basic which are the lower density ones.
Maybe the quote is sometimes shown as 256/512 because once higher density models of the form that it supports are out the support will double from 256 to 512?
This is an area that requires careful study.



samphony said:


> As far as i know TR supports up to 2TB ram. You’ll need a server board. Some of themhave 7 pcie slots like the new mac pro.


The EPYC server chips support 2TB but do the server boards support the TR chips? I think it's a different socket.
TR supports half the memory channels of EPYC so that halves the maximum RAM, plus it only supports basic lower density sticks. 256 or 512 seems more likely and if you look at the sTRX4 boards they tend to say 256 max.


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## jononotbono (Jun 13, 2020)

Just been reading this article about PCIe Thunderbolt 3 cards. Looks like I can choose out of many more motherboards that I thought and just get one of these to hook up my Apollo Twin X. Happy days

https://thunderboltlaptop.com/thunderbolt-3-pcie-cards/


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## Technostica (Jun 13, 2020)

"All TB3 add-in cards come with a system link cable. The cable connects the card to your motherboard via a Thunderbolt header. All motherboards compatible with Thunderbolt 3 add-in cards must have this type of slot. Without it, you cannot enable Thunderbolt 3 even after connecting it to the PCI Express slot."


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## jononotbono (Jun 13, 2020)

Technostica said:


> "All TB3 add-in cards come with a system link cable. The cable connects the card to your motherboard via a Thunderbolt header. All motherboards compatible with Thunderbolt 3 add-in cards must have this type of slot. Without it, you cannot enable Thunderbolt 3 even after connecting it to the PCI Express slot."



I’ll just have to choose one of the TB3 mobos then. I just got advice from someone saying this would be fine despite me saying “I believe the mobo needs a TB3 header”. Lesson learnt... “Always listen to myself” 😂 

Either way, I will have TB3 no matter what the price.


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## JeffvR (Jun 13, 2020)

As an owner of the 3960x I'd actually suggest against it. The CPU needs Watts. Watts means heat, heat means a loud computer. My fans are turning on and off a lot. Also Cubase seems to be an inefficient piece of software. Before your CPU maxes out your ASIO performance will be running into the red and you'll get crackles and shit. It doesn't matter how many cores you throw at it, the CPU is chilling at 20%, realtime peaks are the bottleneck. I had this "issue" with a mixing session, a couple of heavy plugins (acustica audio) and 128kb buffer size. Faster bouncing? Not really.. the CPU is chilling at 15-20% while bouncing. I'd also double check if your UAD is supported with the AMD chipset. Check https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/ar...and-UAD-2-PCIe-Compatibility?mobile_site=true I'd go with a CPU with around 10 cores, fast single core speed and the option to use lot's of RAM. I wonder if you'd ever need 256gb or 512gb though...


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## Jay Panikkar (Jun 14, 2020)

I have a TR 3970X (32 cores/64 threads) and a non-TR 3900X (12 cores/24 threads). The performance difference between the two setups is minimal for Cubase which only _really_ utilizes 14-15 cores.

There is much diminishing returns when using audio software with latest hardware. Even with Intel processors, you will run into the same diminishing returns despite paying much more for that setup. Other software I use, like AutoCAD also have the same problem. IMO, it's not a Cubase or audio thing; in general, a lot of software hasn't caught up with the hardware yet.

To get the best out of new processors, AMD or Intel, you need a good cooling setup. New processors come with auto-overlocking features ("Boost") which are pretty good but can only max out if your CPU temperatures are kept under control. The stock coolers don't suffice. I'm using Noctua air coolers on both; they don't make much noise and offer performance similar to more expensive liquid coolers.

Another thing to keep in mind: there are a lot of of peripherals which screw up audio performance. Certain networks cards cause trouble. Some audio chips, like Realtek, cause trouble; even if you're using a proper soundcard, you need to uninstall the Realtek drivers and disable the chip in the BIOS. NVidia graphics cards—except for older low-end ones—also increase DPC latency.

If you're looking for suitable RAM kits, motherboard manufacturers usually provide a Qualified Vendor List on their official pages.


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## jononotbono (Jun 14, 2020)

Well I was thinking about water cooling so that would stop loud fan noise turning on and off?


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## Pictus (Jun 14, 2020)

A custom water cooler kit is the way!
You can place the pump/fans into another room for ultimate silence!!




With a big radiator can use bigger(200mm) very silent slow RPM fans




To help with the latency





Nvidia Driver, no latency anymore?


Hi all! We all know that AMD drivers have from far, less latency than Nvidia drivers, and for that reason we all recommand an AMD graphic card for audio working. But recently i have dealt with a new install on a PC with an Nvidia graphic card. And when i updated to the latest driver i saw an...




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AMD CPUs likes fast RAM





Ryzen Memory testing for audio, does it make an impact?







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The best(less taxing for the memory controller) RAM for AMD is Micron E-die chips.





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## Virtual Virgin (Aug 21, 2020)

If someone finds a Threadripper 3 build that works with Thunderbolt 3, please let us know!
I would go for a 3960x if I can be sure that the Presonus Quantum 2 will work with it.


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## StefVR (Aug 24, 2020)

JeffvR said:


> As an owner of the 3960x I'd actually suggest against it. The CPU needs Watts. Watts means heat, heat means a loud computer. My fans are turning on and off a lot. Also Cubase seems to be an inefficient piece of software. Before your CPU maxes out your ASIO performance will be running into the red and you'll get crackles and shit. It doesn't matter how many cores you throw at it, the CPU is chilling at 20%, realtime peaks are the bottleneck. I had this "issue" with a mixing session, a couple of heavy plugins (acustica audio) and 128kb buffer size. Faster bouncing? Not really.. the CPU is chilling at 15-20% while bouncing. I'd also double check if your UAD is supported with the AMD chipset. Check https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/ar...and-UAD-2-PCIe-Compatibility?mobile_site=true I'd go with a CPU with around 10 cores, fast single core speed and the option to use lot's of RAM. I wonder if you'd ever need 256gb or 512gb though...



This was my experiemce too with 3970x. I build and optimize pcs all my life. The 3970x was running full custom watercooled with 64gb 3600mhz at 15 15 15 3600 and 1:1 but still latency Due to the chiplet design. I got pops and clicks quite early on my rme ufx2 and still not 100% sure if its the latency or general driver probs.

switched back to intel (10900k)and all issues are gone tho i miss the pci express laned]s as i use intel optane and lots of nvme.


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## ridgero (Aug 24, 2020)

Architekton said:


> Go with strongest Ryzen and save your money for something else, like libraries! Also, in autumn Ryzen series 4000 comes out which will have (accoring to rumours on hw sites) like 30 to 40% more power than gen 3!



Source?

30-40% on the same architecture as it’s predecessor seems to be very unlikely.


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## José Herring (Aug 25, 2020)

StefVR said:


> This was my experiemce too with 3970x. I build and optimize pcs all my life. The 3970x was running full custom watercooled with 64gb 3600mhz at 15 15 15 3600 and 1:1 but still latency Due to the chiplet design. I got pops and clicks quite early on my rme ufx2 and still not 100% sure if its the latency or general driver probs.
> 
> switched back to intel (10900k)and all issues are gone tho i miss the pci express laned]s as i use intel optane and lots of nvme.


Awe that's too bad. If you had put in a 3700x chip you would not have had any core latency issues. Apparently the 3900x still suffered from core latency at least at low buffer settings. 

Did you end up selling your 3970x machine?


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## StefVR (Aug 25, 2020)

Yes I sold it for a good price. So. Ot a problem in the end. Still liked the machine.


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