# Creating an Orchestral Template



## Fillup147 (Dec 22, 2020)

Hey guys/girls. So I’m getting into composing my own music and recently read up in creating a template to make the workflow faster. I use Studio One 5 and was seeing if anybody has any tips on the best way to do this? How to lay out the tracks? 
Thanks!


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## mybadmemory (Dec 23, 2020)

The only point with the templaye is to get you to work faster by not having to do the same setup over and over again for each track you do. So whatever your tracks usually include in terms of instruments, effects, routing, etc, thats what your template should be.

In terms of track order the most usual is by orchestral section, either in score order or any other order you’d like. Personally I’ve changed from that to order by library instead (and then by section underneath that) but that’s probably much less common.


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## shponglefan (Dec 23, 2020)

I've just started setting up a template in Studio One myself.

Right now I'm taking the following approach:

Folders for main sections and groupings: strings, brass, woodwinds, percussion, keys/tuned percussion, ethnic/world, synths, loops, sound effects/textures, etc.
Within folders instruments are sorted by register from top to bottom. For example, strings starts with violins, followed by violas, celli, basses.
Set up tracks for each instrument's articulation in order based on general usage (e.g. sustain/legato first, then staccato, marcato, etc.)

I'm also being consistent in how I name everything. I'm using standard vendor & library name abbreviations, and consistent naming of instruments and articulations. The intent is to be able to to take advantage of Studio One's track filtering options. I want to be able to easily filter by any criteria.

Finally, I'm hoping to take advantage of Studio One's presets feature. My intent is that my core template will be relatively lightweight and just contain the essentials. I want a template that loads quick and isn't overloaded with thousands of tracks. If I do need extra instruments, I'm hoping to set up presets in a way that will allow for quick importing of said instruments into pre-made tracks with all the FX set up and routed. There's a good article here on Studio One presets: https://www.jonathanwrightmusic.com/use-studio-one-and-instrument-presets-for-large-orchestral-projects/


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## Fillup147 (Dec 23, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> I've just started setting up a template in Studio One myself.
> 
> Right now I'm taking the following approach:
> 
> ...


Awesome thanks for the detailed response! So I have another question regarding the layout. So you said you have folders separating each instrument, effect etc. This question is regarding Kontakt, assuming you use that for your patches. Do you use 1 instance of Kontakt and have different outs on them or do you load 1 instrument per instance?
I hear people say they have 1 instance for like 20 different instruments to save CPU and others say you have more control if you load 1 instance per instrument. Assuming you use Kontakt, how do you find is a “better” of doing it?


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## Lukas (Dec 23, 2020)

Fillup147 said:


> I hear people say they have 1 instance for like 20 different instruments to save CPU and others say you have more control if you load 1 instance per instrument. Assuming you use Kontakt, how do you find is a “better” of doing it?


The "save CPU" thing does not apply anymore nowadays (or only in very rare cases). I quote a posting I wrote recently in another thread:

If the plug-in does not support distributing the load between cores, it will be more CPU friendly to use single instances. The difference is primarily in RAM. Multitimbral comes from a time (Gigasampler, HyperSonic etc.) when RAM was pretty limited so you had to be very economical with plug-in instances. On my system (Win10) one empty Kontakt 5 instance consumes between 80 and 150 MB. So 2004 when I started using VST instruments and had 512 MB or 1 GB RAM, of course I took one KONTAKT (KOMPAKT..) instance and made use of all 8 available slots before loading another instance.

CPU-wise, when you use single plug-in instances, the DAW can distribute the load between cores which in my experience (Studio One 5, Windows 10, Kontakt/Omnisphere/PLAY) is way more effective than having the plug-ins do that.

So if RAM is not a problem, I would say the single instance approach has almost only advantages: Easier to load new presets (just drag one preset from the browser into the song), you can disable/enable single tracks/instruments, each new instrument automatically has its own mixer channel (Kontakt multi-out routing is still a PITA).

I only use multi-outs for single instruments with multiple microphone positions (not always though) or for drum instruments like Addictive Drums or Studio One's Impact XT.


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## shponglefan (Dec 23, 2020)

Fillup147 said:


> Awesome thanks for the detailed response! So I have another question regarding the layout. So you said you have folders separating each instrument, effect etc.



For clarity, I'm only using folders for each section, not individual instruments.



> This question is regarding Kontakt, assuming you use that for your patches. Do you use 1 instance of Kontakt and have different outs on them or do you load 1 instrument per instance?



Just one instance for each patch. I will set up multi-outs if it makes sense for the particular instrument (e.g. drumkits). But otherwise I just stick to the default stereo outs for each Kontakt instance.


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## Fillup147 (Dec 23, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> For clarity, I'm only using folders for each section, not individual instruments.
> 
> 
> 
> Just one instance for each patch. I will set up multi-outs if it makes sense for the particular instrument (e.g. drumkits). But otherwise I just stick to the default stereo outs for each Kontakt instance.


Ohh ok gotcha. So if you have a folder that said “String”, you have all the strings from high to low and by articulation correct? And basically just to clarify, if you were to open the instance for let’s say 1st violins, there would only be one patch in that instance of Kontakt correct? There wouldn’t be like 10 instruments when you opened up Kontakt?




Lukas said:


> So if RAM is not a problem, I would say the single instance approach has almost only advantages: Easier to load new presets (just drag one preset from the browser into the song), you can disable/enable single tracks/instruments, each new instrument automatically has its own mixer channel (Kontakt multi-out routing is still a PITA).


So I have 16GB of RAM on my laptop, is this enough? I figured the single instance was the best way to do it was just making sure. BTW I think I might buy your toolbar!


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## Lukas (Dec 23, 2020)

Fillup147 said:


> So I have 16GB of RAM on my laptop, is this enough? I figured the single instance was the best way to do it was just making sure.


Depends on your sample libraries and how many instruments you want to load (without disabling/bouncing them). 16 RAM is not *that* much if you consider that the OS (MacOS or Windows, by the way?) also consumes some GB of RAM. But of course you can work with that. You just have to budget a bit more than someone who has 32 or 48 GB of RAM.


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## shponglefan (Dec 23, 2020)

Fillup147 said:


> Ohh ok gotcha. So if you have a folder that said “String”, you have all the strings from high to low and by articulation correct?



Correct.



> And basically just to clarify, if you were to open the instance for let’s say 1st violins, there would only be one patch in that instance of Kontakt correct? There wouldn’t be like 10 instruments when you opened up Kontakt?



Correct, just the one patch loaded into a single instance of Kontakt.


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## Fillup147 (Dec 23, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> Correct.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, just the one patch loaded into a single instance of Kontakt.


Awesome thanks a bunch. Do you load things like reverbs, we’d n such as part of the template already as well?


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## shponglefan (Dec 23, 2020)

Fillup147 said:


> Awesome thanks a bunch. Do you load things like reverbs, we’d n such as part of the template already as well?



Yup, all FX are loaded and all signal chains are set up in advance.


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## Franklin (Dec 23, 2020)

Not to hijack this thread, but I have not been able to find a thorough step-by-step tutorial how to properly setup or create an Orchestral template in Studio One 5 with the use of VEPro 7. Any advise is welcomed. Thanks in advance.


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## Fillup147 (Dec 23, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> Yup, all FX are loaded and all signal chains are set up in advance.


Is there a good resource to understand the use of busses and fx tracks? I always get confused on whether to put reverbs and other fx directly onto the tracks or route multiple tracks to a single reverb.
And also if I should master on the master track or master after I export into a wav or mp3 file then master there..sorry I’m new at this if all these questions are annoying


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## Akarin (Dec 23, 2020)

I'll hijack your thread a little bit as templates are something that I can nerd about for hours... Recently, I've been experimenting with modular templates (just templating the routings but not the instruments). I've done a video on this (it's in Cubase but I guess S1 lets you do that as well):



And for a full-blown template course (templates for both writing and mixing), I've developed a whole course: digitalcomposing.com

In essence, why do I love templates? Here we go...:

Templates are a big subject when it comes to composing with a DAW and sample libraries. Some people absolutely hate it (_although I have yet to hear a compelling reason as to why_), some others swear by them.

Personally, I have 3 main reasons for building templates:

*Approaching the computer as a musical instrument*

First and foremost, I am using a computer, a DAW, and sample libraries to write music. Not because I like to spend hours on technical problems, or importing virtual instruments, balancing them and routing them. I use these tools to write music.

When I sit in front of my computer, writing music is all that I want to be doing. Do you know the "plug and play" paradigm? I want to "sit and play". A well organized template allows me to do just that.

*Boosting my productivity*

As most media composers know, time is often a very scarce resource. By not having to deal with technical things, I can start writing as soon as a new project comes in. But not only! It also helps me to _get new projects_.

For example, I've read an ad recently by a director looking for a composer. The ad mentioned the genre that they were looking for. Instead of just sending a link to my portfolio like probably dozens of other composers, I took two hours to sit at my workstation and I wrote a custom 2 minutes cue to add with my application. I didn't have to worry about the technical aspects as everything was already handled by my template. I got a call two days later, and got the job.

*Creating a palette*

I don't believe in having one template for each and every situation, though. At the start of every new project, I build myself a new template (or adapt an existing one). This is why knowing how to build them fast is an asset for the working composer. By having a project-based template, I know that my orchestrations are repeatable throughout the project, be it 10 tracks for a production library album or for several film cues.

Some say that using templates smother your creativity because you are forced into a box. I don't believe in this as it is not because you've already prepared yourself a sound palette that you can't add to it as necessary. In fact, it's the exact opposite: you are able to experiment faster as your foundation is already in place. Your routings, your articulation switching mechanisms, your virtual hall, etc.


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## shponglefan (Dec 23, 2020)

Fillup147 said:


> Is there a good resource to understand the use of busses and fx tracks? I always get confused on whether to put reverbs and other fx directly onto the tracks or route multiple tracks to a single reverb.



I'm still trying to figure this out myself. I've gone through videos of various composers' templates and there doesn't seem to be a singular answer. A lot of it seems to be based on workflow and personal preference.

At the moment, I've just created busses for sections and applied reverbs as insert FX. I haven't bothered with send FX yet, although that will likely change as I add things like delays or other FX to the template.



> And also if I should master on the master track or master after I export into a wav or mp3 file then master there..sorry I’m new at this if all these questions are annoying



Again, I think this comes down to workflow preference. I've done it both ways in the past and for now, I've set up a master chain directly in my template.

And no worries about the questions! We're all here to help each other out.


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## waveheavy (Jan 25, 2022)

Lukas said:


> Depends on your sample libraries and how many instruments you want to load (without disabling/bouncing them). 16 RAM is not *that* much if you consider that the OS (MacOS or Windows, by the way?) also consumes some GB of RAM. But of course you can work with that. You just have to budget a bit more than someone who has 32 or 48 GB of RAM.


I've tried both ways (using Studio One 4.6.2 on Win 7, 4 Core Intel CPU, 32 GB). 

I don't like using multiple instruments in one Kontakt instance, because you can't process each instrument separately with plugins. 

I tried using VE Pro (v.6) just to see how much RAM and CPU processing it would take up, and it used more than doing a single instance of Kontakt per instrument.

I'm thinking of staying with a single Kontakt instance per instrument articulation.

I don't play piano, but compose in a notation program and then import to S1 and then tweak from there. Is there a better way in my case?


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## Akarin (Jan 25, 2022)

waveheavy said:


> I don't like using multiple instruments in one Kontakt instance, because you can't process each instrument separately with plugins.



You can. Kontakt supports multiple audio outputs. I do it all the time, for example routing the long articulations to one output and the shorts to another one.


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## Robert Kooijman (Jan 26, 2022)

Use Studio One with hundreds of Vepro tracks: a happy marriage 

Have all fav instruments ready to go in one universal template. To keep this workable, most tracks are kept in a single, separate arrangement folder. From there I just select and move tracks into the arrangement, using the template's premade folder / bus / mixer structure. Nothing is disabled, everything is ready to roll, audition and play immediately. Visibility macros make this process easy.

Works so much faster then having to drag / drop / load instruments individually in to the arrangement. Loading / saving times are also thanks to using Vepro no issue.


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## waveheavy (Jan 26, 2022)

Akarin said:


> You can. Kontakt supports multiple audio outputs. I do it all the time, for example routing the long articulations to one output and the shorts to another one.


I'll try it again. But it will still mean having some unused instruments loaded. I might could just have a Legato and a Short of each instrument in one instance of Kontakt, and then the rest of the articulations that aren't used much each in their own separate instance. The mostly unused stuff could remain disabled and thus unloaded.

Or I could get a new computer with tons of RAM. I prefer the single computer route.

On my Windows system, with 32 GB RAM, I have 153 single instances of Kontakt, one for each instrument, with them all loaded, taking up 16 GB of memory. This is just for the Bernard Hermann library.


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## waveheavy (Jan 26, 2022)

Robert Kooijman said:


> Use Studio One with hundreds of Vepro tracks: a happy marriage
> 
> Have all fav instruments ready to go in one universal template. To keep this workable, most tracks are kept in a single, separate arrangement folder. From there I just select and move tracks into the arrangement, using the template's premade folder / bus / mixer structure. Nothing is disabled, everything is ready to roll, audition and play immediately. Visibility macros make this process easy.
> 
> Works so much faster then having to drag / drop / load instruments individually in to the arrangement. Loading / saving times are also thanks to using Vepro no issue.


Are you using a slave computer?


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## Lukas (Jan 26, 2022)

Akarin said:


> You can. Kontakt supports multiple audio outputs. I do it all the time, for example routing the long articulations to one output and the shorts to another one.


However, I'm wondering what the benefit is...? Is it to save a some MB of RAM or do you group instruments by that? My experience is that it's tedious to create and change the routing, you need to change all the assignments if you want to insert (or remove) instruments in between... - for me there are actually only reasons against it.


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## Akarin (Jan 26, 2022)

Lukas said:


> However, I'm wondering what the benefit is...? Is it to save a some MB of RAM or do you group instruments by that? My experience is that it's tedious to create and change the routing, you need to change all the assignments if you want to insert (or remove) instruments in between... - for me there are actually only reasons against it.



I do it because it's easier to write a convincing line when using an expression map you can seamlessly switch between long and short articulations within one track only. And then, you keep the power of mixing them separately.


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## Lukas (Jan 26, 2022)

Ah okay, you play them from one single track, switch MIDI channels via Expression Maps and you still have them on different mixer channels... good point.


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## Akarin (Jan 26, 2022)

waveheavy said:


> The mostly unused stuff could remain disabled and thus unloaded.



I purge my multis so that they consume virtually no RAM (just a bit for the UI.) I know that a lot of people use one track per articulation but it makes it really difficult for me to write a phrase that would go something like "staccato - legato - legato - spiccato - marcato - legato." This real example would take 4 tracks instead of one if they were not grouped. And then, if I want to see what the 5th note would sound like with a tenuto instead of a marcato, I can simply change the articulation in the expression map lane to hear the difference. No need to enable a 5th track and write a note in it.



Lukas said:


> Ah okay, you play them from one single track, switch MIDI channels via Expression Maps and you still have them on different mixer channels... good point.



Exactly this! Each patch in the multi is only one articulation with its own MIDI channel. The output, for strings, is either "long", "short" or "pizzicato." These are the 3 categories that I tend to mix a little bit differently from each other (mostly on the compression and reverb send values.) I can also balance their volumes individually while still retaining only one MIDI track for the whole section.


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## liquidlino (Jan 26, 2022)

waveheavy said:


> I'll try it again. But it will still mean having some unused instruments loaded. I might could just have a Legato and a Short of each instrument in one instance of Kontakt, and then the rest of the articulations that aren't used much each in their own separate instance. The mostly unused stuff could remain disabled and thus unloaded.
> 
> Or I could get a new computer with tons of RAM. I prefer the single computer route.
> 
> On my Windows system, with 32 GB RAM, I have 153 single instances of Kontakt, one for each instrument, with them all loaded, taking up 16 GB of memory. This is just for the Bernard Hermann library.


My base template in reaper now has 120 tracks with Kontakt, falcon, etc. But loading the template is seconds, and memory consumption is a couple of gigs. This is because all tracks initially loa disabled. I have a keyboard shortcut and custom action that enables/disables tracks. Takes a couple of seconds for a track to enable and load when I want it, but this is much better than having long template load and save times, and having huge memory consumption from unused tracks and instruments. Most tracks are pre-purged as well, with the exception of CSS which doesn't seem to like being purged, ends up missing played notes until cache catches up.


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## Akarin (Jan 26, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> My base template in reaper now has 120 tracks with Kontakt, falcon, etc. But loading the template is seconds, and memory consumption is a couple of gigs. [...] with the exception of CSS which doesn't seem to like being purged, ends up missing played notes until cache catches up.



My core template has around 700 tracks and my full template 5.3k tracks  Each disabled of course. And I have the same issue with CSS and the Spitfire performance legato patches. It always needs a first playthrough to load all the needed samples. I actually did the same as you and didn't purge the CSS long articulations.


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## waveheavy (Jan 26, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> My base template in reaper now has 120 tracks with Kontakt, falcon, etc. But loading the template is seconds, and memory consumption is a couple of gigs. This is because all tracks initially loa disabled. I have a keyboard shortcut and custom action that enables/disables tracks. Takes a couple of seconds for a track to enable and load when I want it, but this is much better than having long template load and save times, and having huge memory consumption from unused tracks and instruments. Most tracks are pre-purged as well, with the exception of CSS which doesn't seem to like being purged, ends up missing played notes until cache catches up.


Pretty much what I'm doing too. I just need to get serious about which instruments from the various libraries I have will be in a one-all template.

I don't play piano, but write in Finale or StaffPad. The truly useful version of StaffPad came out after I had bought some of these expensive libraries (like Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, VSL, 8 Dio). I'm just trying to find a way to use them. 

@Akarin I understand what you say about switching articulations. I'm able to do that in Finale but only with VSL. It's looking more and more that I'll rely on StaffPad for that kind of realism. If I were younger, I'd take the time to learn piano (I'm a guitarist). I'm still using Windows 7, so I'm stuck with S1 4.6 right now. I do own version 5, and would probably use its notation score feature to compose with. Otherwise Dorico might be a future choice. I just like to write in staves. I can easily grab my guitar and lay down tracks in various styles, and create a drum and bass groove, but that is old hat for me now, just not into that (would if I was writing commercially though).


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## Kent (Jan 27, 2022)

waveheavy said:


> I'll try it again. But it will still mean having some unused instruments loaded. I might could just have a Legato and a Short of each instrument in one instance of Kontakt, and then the rest of the articulations that aren't used much each in their own separate instance. The mostly unused stuff could remain disabled and thus unloaded.
> 
> Or I could get a new computer with tons of RAM. I prefer the single computer route.
> 
> On my Windows system, with 32 GB RAM, I have 153 single instances of Kontakt, one for each instrument, with them all loaded, taking up 16 GB of memory. This is just for the Bernard Hermann library.


Each empty instance of Kontakt takes up like 200 Megs of RAM. You should condense!


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## Robert Kooijman (Jan 27, 2022)

waveheavy said:


> Are you using a slave computer?


Yes. Used initially Vepro in the same DAW, but after a while reached memory and CPU limits. Now with almost everything in Vepro on a slave, there's some more headroom.

In Vepro most is purged (Kontakt and Sine instruments). But I never really saw the need or advantage of disabling tracks in the main DAW. Saving and loading Vepro instruments is very fast in Studio One, and they take hardly any memory or CPU load. Well, with the exception of Spitfire performance legatos in Kontakt, that remain a challenge even when hosted in Vepro...

Some years ago I visited Munich and went out for dinner at a nice Turkish restaurant. There were some communication difficulties with the owner / waiter when deciding what to order. So he invited me in to the kitchen and told me "just point at what you would like to eat". Well, that sounded like music in my ears! It ended up being a bit of everything, kind of an unlimited buffé. Not that dissimilar compared to using a ready to roll template


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## waveheavy (Jan 27, 2022)

Kent said:


> Each empty instance of Kontakt takes up like 200 Megs of RAM. You should condense!


But if the instance of Kontakt is disabled?


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## samphony (Jan 28, 2022)

Akarin said:


> I do it because it's easier to write a convincing line when using an expression map you can seamlessly switch between long and short articulations within one track only. And then, you keep the power of mixing them separately.


Totally understandable. 
I think it depends on how one writes. 
If you want all notes to be tight on the grod you have split the tracks at least into 2-3 tracks for different delay settings. 

It is interesting to see how the whole articulation switching or should we call it articulation stitching 😂 evolved but all approaches still face issues that need creative workarounds or problem solving. 

I hope future VIs and DAW workflows allow for more ai assistance when composing. And I’m not talking about humming a melody and with a touch of a button 3 cues are ready.


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## GeoMax (Feb 28, 2022)

Robert Kooijman said:


> Use Studio One with hundreds of Vepro tracks: a happy marriage
> 
> Have all fav instruments ready to go in one universal template. To keep this workable, most tracks are kept in a single, separate arrangement folder. From there I just select and move tracks into the arrangement, using the template's premade folder / bus / mixer structure. Nothing is disabled, everything is ready to roll, audition and play immediately. Visibility macros make this process easy.
> 
> Works so much faster then having to drag / drop / load instruments individually in to the arrangement. Loading / saving times are also thanks to using Vepro no issue.


This is a cool idea. Do you just use a stereo return for each instrument? Basically, I would like to understand the VEP instances. Do you hundreds of Vepro instances too? 1 Midi Channel, 2 stereo returns and 2 cores allocated? Using variation maps?

I am trying something with having ALL vst instruments on a big VST machine and then my DAW and FX on a separate machine. I want to just use VEPRO to get to the VSTs and then once I am done writing the parts I will create audio stems and mix from there.

I think I understand the mix setup where you have a folder for piano. You move you VEP instance for the Steinway VST you want into the Folder/Bus, and it automatically routes it to the bus, and all your FX as you setup.

I havent decided if I will use Nuendo or Studio One for my DAW. I think the concept could work either way, but studio one might be cleaner for the pre-routed outputs.


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## Saxer (Feb 28, 2022)

Akarin said:


> Each patch in the multi is only one articulation with its own MIDI channel. The output, for strings, is either "long", "short" or "pizzicato." These are the 3 categories that I tend to mix a little bit differently from each other (mostly on the compression and reverb send values.) I can also balance their volumes individually while still retaining only one MIDI track for the whole section.


Nice way of working!

I have two questions: 
How do you deal with different delays of different articulations?
How big is your template song file?

I'm a Logicuser but the questions are more or less the same for all DAWs. I avoid multitimbral and multi-out settings and separate shorts from longs trackwise. And I get better results if I use more playable instruments (Performancesamples, Musicalsampling, Sample-/Audiomodeling, Infinite, Spit-Performance-Legatos) than switching articulations. Exception are still strings.


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## Robert Kooijman (Feb 28, 2022)

GeoMax said:


> This is a cool idea. Do you just use a stereo return for each instrument? Basically, I would like to understand the VEP instances. Do you hundreds of Vepro instances too? 1 Midi Channel, 2 stereo returns and 2 cores allocated? Using variation maps?


Am using around 40 Vepro instances. Each one connected to either a Kontakt multi-instrument with 16 stereo outputs, and 16 corresponding MIDI channels, Sine multi-instrument or several Spitfire player instruments (not yet multi-timbral).

Every instrument is routed to a dedicated output. I'm not doing any (pre)mixing or FX in Vepro, to keep things relatively straightforward. Vepro's own FX is really good, but I just prefer to keep mixing or FXing everything in Studio One.

The obvious disadvantage is that you end up with an awful lot of mixer channels. But, using Studio One's shiny visibility functions and keeping mixer channel view independent from arrangement tracks (inspector setting), this is workable.

Like many others, I spent a lot of time tweaking and trying various ways of working. But never really noticed much difference when playing around with Vepro's or various player settings like number of cores allocated. So just use default settings...

Studio One's sound variations are easy to work with, have these set-up for most instruments that offer key switches. I would get crazy with a one track for each articulation template 



GeoMax said:


> I am trying something with having ALL vst instruments on a big VST machine and then my DAW and FX on a separate machine. I want to just use VEPRO to get to the VSTs and then once I am done writing the parts I will create audio stems and mix from there.
> 
> I think I understand the mix setup where you have a folder for piano. You move you VEP instance for the Steinway VST you want into the Folder/Bus, and it automatically routes it to the bus, and all your FX as you setup.


Yes, having a dedicated PC for just Vepro hosted VST instruments is IMO still a great option. It's just so convenient, once set-up. You just launch the Vepro maschine, before starting your DAW, and forget about it.

The main disadvantage is perhaps that you are pretty much stuck with the instrument / MIDI / mixer channel relation between your template and Vepro ensemble server project. So making a kind of universal template and sticking to it could be worth the effort. Otherwise you can spent a lot of time modifying both your template and Vepro server. Or even worse, your older songs / projects might get screwed up...

Indeed, as you mentioned, having all main instrument folder tracks assigned to corresponding bus channels keeps works well. You can have all these busses (Piano, Drums, Strings, FX etc) visible in the mixer, while using the inspector for viewing & adjusting individual tracks.



GeoMax said:


> I havent decided if I will use Nuendo or Studio One for my DAW. I think the concept could work either way, but studio one might be cleaner for the pre-routed outputs.


If you can live without a dedicated video track or advanced timecode functionality, Studio One is really worth giving a try


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## GeoMax (Feb 28, 2022)

Robert Kooijman said:


> Am using around 40 Vepro instances. Each one connected to either a Kontakt multi-instrument with 16 stereo outputs, and 16 corresponding MIDI channels, Sine multi-instrument or several Spitfire player instruments (not yet multi-timbral).
> 
> Every instrument is routed to a dedicated output. I'm not doing any (pre)mixing or FX in Vepro, to keep things relatively straightforward. Vepro's own FX is really good, but I just prefer to keep mixing or FXing everything in Studio One.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed response! I am going to play around with this. The joy of VEPRO on a second machine is that I can experiment with Nuendo and Studio One  

I don't do anything with video, so whichever one "feels" most comfortable. I do really like the 4 mixers in Nuendo. It is hard to deal with S1 mixer sometimes when I am so used to Nuendo. That said, S1 has lots of workflow things that are not in Nuendo. It's all personal preference and what we get comfortable using. Maybe I will write in one and mix in the other.


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## Akarin (Mar 1, 2022)

Saxer said:


> Nice way of working!
> 
> I have two questions:
> How do you deal with different delays of different articulations?
> ...



Hey. Usually, the biggest variation in delays are between longs and shorts. This doesn't cause any issue because I split longs and shorts. If, say staccato has a -50ms delay and spiccato has -40ms, I'll set the track at -45ms. If the gap is larger, I'll use the Replika delay that is built-in Kontakt to align the patches (I have a video on this.) Another solution that I use is to have separate instrument tracks with their correct negative delays and I control them from a global MIDI track that contains the expression map (I also have a video on this.)

My main template is about 5GB in size (Cubase.) My core template is a bit under 2GB (I have a video on that too.) The most lightweight template that I use is around 100MB because it's mostly empty and I import track presets in it (you guessed it, I also have a video on this!)


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## PaulieDC (Mar 1, 2022)

Fillup147 said:


> Is there a good resource to understand the use of busses and fx tracks? I always get confused on whether to put reverbs and other fx directly onto the tracks or route multiple tracks to a single reverb.
> And also if I should master on the master track or master after I export into a wav or mp3 file then master there..sorry I’m new at this if all these questions are annoying


Unless you have a specific reason, you want your reverb(s) on their own channel which we call an FX Channel these days, used to be called an Aux Channel, and it is, for effects. Then from your instrument channels, use a Send to get th signal to the FX Channel. Keeps the orchestra in the same room and your CPU will love you.


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## GeoMax (Mar 1, 2022)

Robert Kooijman said:


> Am using around 40 Vepro instances. Each one connected to either a Kontakt multi-instrument with 16 stereo outputs, and 16 corresponding MIDI channels, Sine multi-instrument or several Spitfire player instruments (not yet multi-timbral).
> 
> Every instrument is routed to a dedicated output. I'm not doing any (pre)mixing or FX in Vepro, to keep things relatively straightforward. Vepro's own FX is really good, but I just prefer to keep mixing or FXing everything in Studio One.


So, I have been experimenting with a variation of your idea and kinda found something interesting.
I decided to try VEPRO in standalone mode. I then installed IPMidi and created 20 midi ports.

In S1, I created an external instrument for Port1 Channel1, that routes to VEP and is setup for a Keyscape Piano I like. The audio returns back to my S1 daw via ethernet audio channel in soundgrid studio. 

A long about way to say I am just creating an external instrument in S1 that send midi to VEP and gets audio back to a Audio track in S1. Yes, I am limited to 320 midi channels, but I can setup 10 pianos with the same Port/Channel and just choose in VEP what I want to activate. Same goes for any of my other libraries.

Why I kinda like this idea: Well, I can create the external devices and external instruments, but I never have to add them to my project unless I want to. It's like S1 instrument/preset idea. 

I will have 56 Stereo Return Tracks in S1 for the various VEP channels all setup like you are doing with folders now. 
I guess maybe I am basically doing the same thing you are doing, just not using a VEP instance to connect it?

Either way, I like the concept. I could do it very similarly in Nuendo. In both cases, no giant project template.


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## Saxer (Mar 1, 2022)

Akarin said:


> Hey. Usually, the biggest variation in delays are between longs and shorts. This doesn't cause any issue because I split longs and shorts. If, say staccato has a -50ms delay and spiccato has -40ms, I'll set the track at -45ms. If the gap is larger, I'll use the Replika delay that is built-in Kontakt to align the patches (I have a video on this.) Another solution that I use is to have separate instrument tracks with their correct negative delays and I control them from a global MIDI track that contains the expression map (I also have a video on this.)
> 
> My main template is about 5GB in size (Cubase.) My core template is a bit under 2GB (I have a video on that too.) The most lightweight template that I use is around 100MB because it's mostly empty and I import track presets in it (you guessed it, I also have a video on this!)


Thanks for the detailed answer! I'll have a look into your videos about this topic (already watched a lot of your videos)!


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## Craig Allen (Mar 24, 2022)

Lukas said:


> I only use multi-outs for single instruments with multiple microphone positions (not always though) or for drum instruments like Addictive Drums or Studio One's Impact XT.


Can you elaborate on why and how you'd set up multi-mic libraries in Kontakt with Multi-Outs? So, all Spitfire libraries in this case?


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