# Composers and Film-Music Industry in China



## Montisquirrel (Mar 20, 2018)

Hey Everybody,

I read alot in this forum about "moving to LA" and these kinds of topics. And I guess the music most members here are listening to is western based music and the discussions about composers and sounds also have their main emphasis in this so called western-music.

I visit China on a regular basis, but I have no real insight into the "media-music" industry. I also don't know much about Chinese composers (only name which comes to mind is Tan Dun from the Tiger & Dragon).

I want to dive deeper into this topic and would like to ask, if you guys have some informations (even if it is just a name or a link to a composer).


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## Montisquirrel (Mar 26, 2018)

No answer is also an answer and makes me wanna dive deeper into this topic even more.


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## Jaap (Mar 26, 2018)

Montisquirrel said:


> No answer is also an answer and makes me wanna dive deeper into this topic even more.



Following this with interest


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## tav.one (Mar 26, 2018)

I'll be interested to know as well. I love traditional Chinese music & instruments.


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## Montisquirrel (Mar 26, 2018)

tav.one said:


> I'll be interested to know as well. I love traditional Chinese music & instruments.



Well, same here, but most Chinese movies and trailer follow the same path which western movies and trailers are going. Sure, films also use traditional instruments when it fits to the picture, but you can be sure that an action packed scene does not necessarily uses an emotional Erhu or GuZheng


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## tav.one (Mar 26, 2018)

Montisquirrel said:


> Well, same here, but most Chinese movies and trailer follow the same path which western movies and trailers are going. Sure, films also use traditional instruments when it fits to the picture, but you can be sure that an action packed scene does not necessarily uses an emotional Erhu or GuZheng



Its the same trend all over the world. I always try to keep the traditional element alive by fusing cultural instruments in my scores.


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## creativeforge (Mar 26, 2018)

Interesting indeed, with productions being co-sponsored and financed by Chinese money, *among others* and reaching for blockbuster status in some of their productions, there is certainly plenty of work for movie score composers of all nationalities. There is already plenty of collabs going on at the moment if we are to believe the reports. There is certainly no lack of talent for these professions in other countries and cultures. 

Forbes states


> As revenues from North American box offices were declining last year, global film revenues grew widely. For example, in 2017, China took in almost $9 billion in movie revenues, that is to say, over 20 percent of global box office film revenues. That was second only to North America. According to Claudia Lin Margolis, an international business consultant working in the Asian market with The Wolfe Law Group, China is expected to overtake North America's lead in next few years. That is because of a huge wave of new construction of movie theaters, its growing demand for movies in general, and its interest in co-production work with U.S. filmmakers.
> 
> India, with over one billion people, like China, is also a growing market for the consumption of films and for co-productions between Hollywood and Bollywood. There is every reason to expect India also to emerge as a major international film market competing with North America, China and other countries. When you consider rapid changes in technology such as multiple distribution platforms for movies, including satellite, cable, DVDs and streaming via the internet like Netflix - all this adds up to a spectacular future for the film making industry globally and especially for U.S. filmmakers and the distribution of their films worldwide. (Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyjs...-movies-and-earn-way-more-money/#2c224fe9ee07)



Adding to this the video game industry (which needs a new vision beyond killing fields and fantasy massacres), there's plenty to do, and like in most things, relationships matter. Speaking the language does help a lot too... 

I'm adding another document, this one from Deloitte titled *"China's Film Industry – a New Era."*


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## Montisquirrel (Mar 27, 2018)

Thank you @creativeforge for your interesting input. I will take a look at the links and this PDF later today. 
I already did some "google research" and most information I found was that Chinese film industry will be more powerfull than the US film industry in the next few years (in case of money). 

There is also one aspects which you can find in most discussions about this topic, which is "Creativity". A lot of critism from the west about China is, that they are doing a lot of piracy and copying, which on the one hand is kind of true but on the other hand really fail to admit beautiful and creativ work by many. The Chinese government is trying to support more creative education in art. A huge part of the parents generation has enough money and the will to support their children in doing music and all kinds of art. I'm doing Youth Film-Workshops in China and I can see huge interests in this field.


Back to music: One of my researches has shown, that in the last centuries many composers from Japan have scored a lot of Chinese films. One reason of course is that they are good in what they do, but one important reason is also that they are understanding each others culture much better than most westeners. 

I think this intercultural communication is most important in terms of working together. Even more important than beeing a master of composing.


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## chrisr (Mar 27, 2018)

creativeforge said:


> there is certainly plenty of work for movie score composers of all nationalities.
> 
> As revenues from North American box offices were declining last year, global film revenues grew widely. For example, in 2017, China took in almost $9 billion in movie revenues, that is to say, over 20 percent of global box office film revenues. That was second only to North America. According to Claudia Lin Margolis, an international business consultant working in the Asian market with The Wolfe Law Group, China is expected to overtake North America's lead in next few years. That is because of a huge wave of new construction of movie theaters, its growing demand for movies in general, and its interest in co-production work with U.S. filmmakers.



Just don't expect to see any back end.

I'm told by the production company that 2 movies I scored played at over 5000 screens each in China, last year and the year before. Exciting... except for the fact that PRS declare (at a meeting about a year ago...) that the total sum of performance royalties arriving from China to the UK, for _all works_ represented by PRS - their entire catalogue - was about 50 thousand pounds a year at the moment. I don't expect to see even pennies of that small amount. Would love to hear from somebody who has experienced otherwise...


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## creativeforge (Mar 27, 2018)

Montisquirrel said:


> One reason of course is that they are good in what they do, but one important reason is also that they are understanding each others culture much better than most westeners.
> 
> I think this intercultural communication is most important in terms of working together. Even more important than beeing a master of composing.



Of course, essential, but I'd think there could be even more defined constraints in terms of the particular investors, their type of corporate culture, how many players at the table, the targeted audiences, the directors / producers focus in reaching (or not) a blend of cultures and/or trend, etc.

I was listening to your tracks on Soundcloud and I think I can hear some of what I'm saying here in them, a mixture of old and new, intimate inner world of emotions with modern/futuristic vibes/sounds. Have you scored for movies or animation mostly?

Interesting, these (although I enjoy the rest too!):







chrisr said:


> Just don't expect to see any back end.
> 
> I'm told by the production company that 2 movies I scored played at over 5000 screens each in China, last year and the year before. Exciting... except for the fact that PRS declare (at a meeting about a year ago...) that the total sum of performance royalties arriving from China to the UK, for _all works_ represented by PRS - their entire catalogue - was about 50 thousand pounds a year at the moment. I don't expect to see even pennies of that small amount. Would love to hear from somebody who has experienced otherwise...



Ugh, sorry to hear that! There is a trade war at our doors that threatens to be a stand-off where billion$ could evaporate. I don't follow this enough to understand how many production fields will it affect, but someone will have to blink first.

In your case, somebody seems to have misreported numbers and gotten away with it. Regulations are one thing, enforcing compliance is another. Does China and its Asian partners care to follow the rules fought for over decades in the West on behalf of individual creatives? They seem to have a less "individual" focus. Not sure how their own composers fare in that regard?


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## Montisquirrel (Mar 27, 2018)

creativeforge said:


> Of course, essential, but I'd think there could be even more defined constraints in terms of the particular investors, their type of corporate culture, how many players at the table, the targeted audiences, the directors / producers focus in reaching (or not) a blend of cultures and/or trend, etc.
> 
> I was listening to your tracks on Soundcloud and I think I can hear some of what I'm saying here in them, a mixture of old and new, intimate inner world of emotions with modern/futuristic vibes/sounds. Have you scored for movies or animation mostly?
> 
> Interesting, these (although I enjoy the rest too!)[...]




Ahh... I still got my old music in my signature  I would never post them here by myself but anyway..

I'm happy that you like some of the old projects. I like them, too, but more because of my personal music history.
To give you a very short answer: I have made music for some documentaries, short-movies and one stop-motion film, but my full-time job has nothing to do with music. This will change very soon ("There is no Plan-B Style"). All my projects are German productions, two of them with a China related topic made by a Germany based chinese filmmaker.

back to topic:
My Chinese language skills are not bad, but not good enough (yet) to dive into a chinese online community, so I started this thread. I have been there already many times and know some musicians, but for whatever reasons I never really talked about music industry. Next time..

@chrisr
This is really unfair. I know that China is on its way to change a lot in case of copy rights and payments, but I guess it is a very long way.

If anyone here has to share some experiences related to China, I'm very interested to hear about it.


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## JEPA (Mar 27, 2018)

is there a PRO in China?


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## PeterN (Mar 27, 2018)

Right now, most things in China are political. So you might want to ask yourself if u want to prostitute yourself for political propaganda of some kind. While breathing toxic air and eating fake products.

I know I didnt answer your question really, just saying there this myth about ”China”, as some kind of El-dorado, and the real deal, which is closer to a dystopian novel. 

Be prepared to be screwed over ten times more than in West.


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## chrisr (Mar 27, 2018)

creativeforge said:


> In your case, somebody seems to have misreported numbers and gotten away with it.



I don't think it's wilful misreporting, it's simply that not all countries recognise creative rights/royalties in the same way. China seems to be typical of those huge emerging markets where basically this sort of thing seems to be down towards the bottom of a fairly long wish-list, politically, so change will be glacially slow, if it ever happens.

In this sense a trade war (with China) could perhaps be good for rights-owners specifically (it couldn't be much worse) because something as paltry as performance rights, in comparison to say the industries built around steel exports/rare earth minerals/white goods manufacture/food processing - all of which dwarf our own interests - could be rolled into a future trade agreement.

My vague understanding is that the media industries here in the UK/Europe/US, should be (and are) lobbying government so that when these big issues are addressed, our own cause is represented as part of the deal, and so a little more money will flow. I think it's probably an ongoing process.


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## Daryl (Mar 27, 2018)

chrisr said:


> I don't think it's wilful misreporting, it's simply that not all countries recognise creative rights/royalties in the same way. China seems to be typical of those huge emerging markets where basically this sort of thing seems to be down towards the bottom of a fairly long wish-list, politically, so change will be glacially slow, if it ever happens.


China, like India, has realised that there is a huge market in the outside world for their films, but if they don't play ball on Royalties, they won't receive any either. Things are changing, albeit slowly.


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## Montisquirrel (Mar 27, 2018)

PeterN said:


> Right now, most things in China are political. So you might want to ask yourself if u want to prostitute yourself for political propaganda of some kind. While breathing toxic air and eating fake products.
> 
> I know I didnt answer your question really, just saying there this myth about ”China”, as some kind of El-dorado, and the real deal, which is closer to a dystopian novel.
> 
> Be prepared to be screwed over ten times more than in West.



Did you made these experiences by yourself or is it just quoting some documentary you saw or newspaper you read?

On the one hand you are right. All movies have to go through the cencorship before screening and yes, there are cities with toxic air where I never want to live again. Corruption? Yes. Do you have to sensitive with political topics? Sure.

But on the other hand you can find the exact opposite of that stereotype China you are talking about. Cities with blue skys and great nature. Yes. Really. Healthy Food? Yes, its true. Movies with non-political topics? Maybe about love? Or just Action? Or a series about daily live problems? Yes, they exist. Unbelivable, right?

Sorry for some sarcasm, but there is more about China than just "_political propaganda, breathing toxic air eating fake products and beeing screwed over ten times more than in West". _And yes. I'm a fanboy.

Maybe I'm too young and naive, but right now China for me is not only my 2nd home but also my El-dorado for my education-projects. And fun fact: I get better payed than in Germany.

Making music in/for China? I have no experience (reason of this thread) and I am going to make them. Maybe they will be bad, maybe good. We will see.


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## PeterN (Mar 27, 2018)

Yea, well, go for it, youre young. I went there when I was 26 and had a great time for many years. Even married a Chinese for a while. Thats before everything fell apart there. Have lots of experience from there, in work, and even making a documentary, being an actor as hobby, etc. and it cannot be shared on a few lines, or, even through a book. You need to experience it to understand it, but its not a bad idea to understand whats really going on: its all politics. Be prepared the Internet aint work and so on, Im sure you know it by now. And so on.

So why not, most people are dumb enough to think its ok there. I just put out those lines in contrast, as China is certainly not the mythical place it appears in our media. Even gdp, economy, is faked, you cannot know whats truth. Its in big chaos and stricktly totalitarian. But chaos is relative these days, just look at USA. If other option is California and the communist takeover of California, then places like Chengdu is probably a better place, nevermind the foul air and polluted water.

From a practical point of view, you need To have a university degree to get work permit. Unless you do foreign owned company investment, but thats no small thing. Yea, people cheat with business visa at times, but they crack down on plenty these days.


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