# How do you deal with envy ?



## JacquesMathias (Aug 4, 2006)

How do you deal with envy and people's ego?

I'm going to speak about what i got here, in my country.


Well, i have been trying for many years to be a "good person". :mrgreen: Always trying to show people the good side of their
works. Never talking about lots of errors, and often encouraging people around me to grown. But, as much i do this,
more people envy me. And more alone i become. My "friends musicians" only call me to speak about their last gig, last
production they did, using this like a weapon to make envy. But, of course i never became. I fell fine with people getting
nice things. After some years it became very bothering. And i don't speak anymore with anyone to avoid feelings like envy.

So how do you guys deal with this? People who envy their work? Or your own envy, if you have.


I think it can be nice to share, and help me deal with this... :???: 

Cheers.


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## midphase (Aug 5, 2006)

I'm not sure I can relate....I mean if anyone has envy for me it's highly misplaced!

Sometime I get a bit bummed to hear about someone getting a really great break....but not because I'm unhappy about their success...more because sometimes I feel like I have a bit of a dark cloud following me around.

I do have a couple of fellow composers whom only seem to call me to tell me about their accomplishments, I'm happy to listen to the news, but at times it seems like that's the only reason they called and they seldom seem to ask or act interested in what I've been up to.

Generally I do try to keep any sense of envy in check, the way I look at it is that it's bad karma to feel resentful towards someone who is more succesful, and sooner or later my turn will come as well.

There's one person from my past which I feel a bit pissy about (after he became a multi-platinum selling artist), but not because of his success which I am very happy that it happened....but because we used to be pretty good friends and when things took off I never heard from him again and I feel like a lost a friend. 

Am I weird?


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## Waywyn (Aug 5, 2006)

Hm I think there can be a positive envy, like going to someone, after he told you that he had success in this or that and saying "damn i really envy you" and smile ... but in the end you just grant him the success, but deep inside you feel a bit pissed. ... but that's okay I think 

As for the negative envy, I made the experience that the most people who envy me are just pissed because that I manage to stay behind what I do.
Most of them of course grant it (but not really), but some can't understand how I made my wishes come true (in terms of live I mean: I have a creative job, earn money with it and I am self employed) and others have to go to work, have a mean or nasty boss and waiting to get home again in the evening.
... and when I described what I went through to get there, you saw on their faces that they would never do something like that (I mean the harcore pitching, phone calls, not able to go on vacation because I was always broke.)

So basically these guys are like little kids who want to reach something without doing anything for it.

Also I remember one buddy who once visited me while I was working and he was also interested in sequencers etc. So I showed him a little bit of my stuff and libs and after 5 minutes he said, "You know what, I will come over in a week and we do a cool techno tune, then we send it to several radio stations and become rich"

You should have seen my face, because during that time I had still my band going on and I knew how hard it was to get a record deal etc., but most people don't think that far ... 

On the other side it is really good to have buddies who do something else like you. Non musicians were you can not just talk about gear, instruments and libraries. To be honest I have noone around in my area who I visit and talk with. Thats what I got this forum  ... and in the end it wouldn't be that cool to go on and on and on, talking about gear gear gear blabla.

Anyway, maybe a bit offtopic here and there but this is what comes to my mind when thinking about envy.


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## PaulR (Aug 5, 2006)

JacquesMathias @ Fri Aug 04 said:


> How do you deal with envy and people's ego?
> Cheers.



Well Jaques - what I do if envy starts to bother me is to have the offending party killed and all their current and past work destroyed. If it's òrÕ   A^ËrÕ   A^ÌrÕ   A^ÍrÕ   A^ÎrÕ   A^ÏrÕ   A^ÐrÕ   A^ÑrÕ   A^ÒrÕ   A^ÓrÕ   A^ÔrÕ   A^ÕrÕ   A^Ö


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 5, 2006)

The best way to deal with people's envy and ego is with apathy, understanding and standing as you stood without changing your attitude. Don't let their negativity influence you because that creates energy draining thoughts and you will slowly become like them; lifeless and devoured from within. Perhaps that is their way of making you something that they are not jealous of anymore.
As long as you feel right towards yourself and you know that you have spoken only the truth there is nothing to feel bad for. Continue to be honest and let them do whatever they like.

Unfortunately Envy is a beast that is munching on the souls of thousands of people everywhere, there is nothing you can do to change that as we are grown up believing that possesions and skin deep things are more important than virtue, compassion, honesty and kindness.

A few days ago i saw a mother and her daughter walking side by side on the street. The daughter had a broken leg and was walking with crutches. The mother on the other hand, even though she was not hurt, was also limping very softly on the same leg as her daughter. . . The point is, it's so easy for people to adopt a wrong stance towards life just because someone else close them is doing so. People don't smile because people don't smile, people don't give money to beggars because they see others not giving money. 
Because your friends are limping from the weight of envy there is no reason for you to limp as well and to stop beeing the person you are until now.


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 5, 2006)

Here is a very nice poem on jealousy by Ogden Nash if you feel like reading:

http://www.westegg.com/nash/possessions.html

(The other ones are very nice too! http://www.westegg.com/nash/ )


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## JacquesMathias (Aug 5, 2006)

midphase @ Sat Aug 05 said:


> I'm not sure I can relate....I mean if anyone has envy for me it's highly misplaced!
> 
> There's one person from my past which I feel a bit pissy about (after he became a multi-platinum selling artist), but not because of his success which I am very happy that it happened....but because we used to be pretty good friends and when things took off I never heard from him again and I feel like a lost a friend.
> 
> Am I weird?



No. Actualy you're not weird... :smile: Sometime i think that being into musical business is 50% of good music and business skills and 50% of being able to manage people's ego. And when someone have a big break in their lives is usual they change their circle of friends and become more "full of themselves"... This is exactly i was talking about. Why your friend does not help you through your career? Now he's suposed to get the "power" to get you more help?


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## JacquesMathias (Aug 5, 2006)

PaulR @ Sat Aug 05 said:


> JacquesMathias @ Fri Aug 04 said:
> 
> 
> > How do you deal with envy and people's ego?
> ...



hehehe :mrgreen: Good thing to do!


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## JacquesMathias (Aug 5, 2006)

Waywyn @ Sat Aug 05 said:


> Hm I think there can be a positive envy, like going to someone, after he told you that he had success in this or that and saying "damn i really envy you" and smile ... but in the end you just grant him the success, but deep inside you feel a bit pissed. ... but that's okay I think
> 
> As for the negative envy, I made the experience that the most people who envy me are just pissed because that I manage to stay behind what I do.
> Most of them of course grant it (but not really), but some can't understand how I made my wishes come true (in terms of live I mean: I have a creative job, earn money with it and I am self employed) and others have to go to work, have a mean or nasty boss and waiting to get home again in the evening.
> ...




Alex, i know the feeling. Many people envy our style of life  But, surely won't have the courage to do half you have done to keep your career.

What i meant with this topic as well, is that people inside musical business, close to us, sometimes try to breake our development...Because they are jealous, or envy our stuff. That's because i asked it. To know how you guys deal with this. I think it's a part of our careers as well.

There was a situation where i was inside a big studio here, and talking with a big musical producer who used to produce all the national artists. I was recording/producing other one in studio B. So my friend (bass player), introduced me to the famous producer, who is an arranger as well. So after some bla bla bla, he asked me some music, just to listen and know what i do. So i had some of my strings works in CD. I puted him to listen. His face was red. Actualy he didn't expect me (27 years in that) to do something at least good. What hapenned? He never asked me to do nothing, and always try make people don't ask me. Because he became really jealous with my work. THAT is what i mean! You know? 

Cheers.


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## JacquesMathias (Aug 5, 2006)

TheoKrueger @ Sat Aug 05 said:


> The best way to deal with people's envy and ego is with apathy, understanding and standing as you stood without changing your attitude. Don't let their negativity influence you because that creates energy draining thoughts and you will slowly become like them; lifeless and devoured from within. Perhaps that is their way of making you something that they are not jealous of anymore.
> As long as you feel right towards yourself and you know that you have spoken only the truth there is nothing to feel bad for. Continue to be honest and let them do whatever they like.
> 
> Unfortunately Envy is a beast that is munching on the souls of thousands of people everywhere, there is nothing you can do to change that as we are grown up believing that possesions and skin deep things are more important than virtue, compassion, honesty and kindness.
> ...




Nice answer! :smile: That is the way i have been trying to take my career. I don't believe being rude. I don't think it's a nice thing to do...Don't like being destructive, while many people love...I care about my "spiritual side", if you know what i'm talking about. I'm not a saint, but i try to get a good Karma. I believe our music has to do with our personality. I know many musicians whose are not able to deal with computers, samples, gears , bla bla...But they can pick up a guitar and compose inspired melodies, singing this and really feeling what they are playing...They are always nice people, with a positive view of world! And this is important to me. I don't want become a lifeless person after i record my first Hollywood score... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: And that is because i'm here on this forum. I like "musicians helping musicians". I enjoy a helth mood where you can criticize other composer and being criticized by others. We can grow with this act. Become better composers and better persons.

Cheers. Thanks for the links!


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## JacquesMathias (Aug 5, 2006)

Folmann @ Sat Aug 05 said:


> JacquesMathias @ Fri Aug 04 said:
> 
> 
> > How do you deal with envy and people's ego?
> ...




Nice point. When i said "friends musicians" i did not mean your really friends, people who knows you since you were a little kid... :smile: Instead of it, people who are professionaly closer to you. And, my point is : How do you deal with envy in your professional circle, WHEN it starts to avoid you to get nice GIGS and WORKS. You know? Let's say i envy you...I know someone who like your job...He asked me about you...WOW, Now i have a chance to avoid you to get the gig... :wink: IF i, for some reason don't like you...You know? These are the conections i was talking about.
Of course, my "really friends" , 20 years of friendship are always interested to hear about me, and help me kick some a%$^# when in need... :mrgreen:


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 5, 2006)

I think composers can be friends... as long as they are a continent apart! Like with this forum, we're all friends cause we never get in eachothers ways in work and busines.. but imagine living in an island all together and looking for work. We would possibly hate eachother!


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## Waywyn (Aug 5, 2006)

JacquesMathias @ Sat Aug 05 said:


> There was a situation where i was inside a big studio here, and talking with a big musical producer who used to produce all the national artists. I was recording/producing other one in studio B. So my friend (bass player), introduced me to the famous producer, who is an arranger as well. So after some bla bla bla, he asked me some music, just to listen and know what i do. So i had some of my strings works in CD. I puted him to listen. His face was red. Actualy he didn't expect me (27 years in that) to do something at least good. What hapenned? He never asked me to do nothing, and always try make people don't ask me. Because he became really jealous with my work. THAT is what i mean! You know?
> 
> Cheers.



Yeh, I hear ya, that's kind of a weird situation, but in the end I think this specific guy is not really the only way to succeed and proceed your career. I know what you mean, he is a big producer, you would have a chance to work with him or get involved in some of his work, but hey ... do you can imagine what could happen later if you maybe would work with him on a project?

Imagine you are in a process of writing strings for an album he is doing, you somehow forgot to do a contract because you "trusted" each other, ... and in the end he would take all your stuff and would credit it as HIS work?!?

We all know there are some superfuckin big assholes around and especially the music bizz is one of the dirtiest one. Everyone of these assholes tries to just climb the ladder and use legs and elbow to just throw others down to get to the goal earlier than the others.

They don't care about the music, they are just cruel enough to win this steady competition, because they don't care how to get there. It is all about money again!

But in the end the good guys win (well, mostly) 
I mean when you see documentary about this or that nasty manager. Sooner or later they just drown in their own shit. Sadly not all of them.

One of our teammembers use to say, that no matter who envys you, you just know what you can do and its actually pleasing to move onward while others (e.g. like in your case) gets red in the face and try to avoid you. It all means that he is kinda afraid of you, because you are obviously tons better and sooner or later you will make it anyway 

You know what you are and can do and the sooner you recognize that people get mad, envy you or whatever in a negative way, you just met the real person. ... and this is always better than too late


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## Hermitage59 (Aug 5, 2006)

Waywyn @ Sat Aug 05 said:


> JacquesMathias @ Sat Aug 05 said:
> 
> 
> > There was a situation where i was inside a big studio here, and talking with a big musical producer who used to produce all the national artists. I was recording/producing other one in studio B. So my friend (bass player), introduced me to the famous producer, who is an arranger as well. So after some bla bla bla, he asked me some music, just to listen and know what i do. So i had some of my strings works in CD. I puted him to listen. His face was red. Actualy he didn't expect me (27 years in that) to do something at least good. What hapenned? He never asked me to do nothing, and always try make people don't ask me. Because he became really jealous with my work. THAT is what i mean! You know?
> ...



There is another side to this too, Alex. If someone sets you up, and makes a point of trying to keep you out of the loop, you must have something going for you, that they don't have. Keeping that in mind, along with determination, and sheer bloody minded persistence, it's worth stepping outside your regular circle or network, and seeing what else is out there. Sometimes we get dragged into someone else's crap, often without our doing, and it can be a lot easier to stand back and 'survey the potential empire'. I've been there, and ended up putting my prices UP, turning the situation around, as if i'd decided to step up to the next level. Of course the 'public' implication was, the producer was still level B if you get my drift, and HE ended up losing work instead.
Funny thing was, at the higher rate, i got MORE work, and a lot more people wanted to know what i did. (Old sales trick. If it's expensive, it 'must' be good. Worked more than once to open a door or two, when i needed to.)

As for friends in the business? Some were friends, some weren't. I trusted my instincts, and most of the time, got it right. And as for envy, i consider that an emotion for the uncertain. I've never envied anyone, but i've sure admired and respected people with talent. Some of my best friends got work i'd pitched for, but the contest was fair, and they got the trophy on the day. Instead of envying them I put my head down and worked smarter.
For those 'friends, and business aquaintances' who enjoy kicking you when you're down, f**k 'em. You show you're taking a hit, and they'll keep right on putting the boot in. Find new friends, and create new business for yourrself.

And on another site, a chap i've got a lot of time for, Angelo Clematide, posted an old business 'client decision maker' not so long ago, that was a timely reminder.

Quality/Speed/Price.
Ask the client to pick two.
Quality takes the time, Speed of delivery affects quality, and the price is dependent on which one of the other two the customer picks. Works a treat. (You can get pretty inventive with a sliding scale of rates, when the customer wants it fast. Make it worth the lack of sleep you're going to get.....)

If the customer knows you're serious, then you're more likely to get the gig, and less likely to fall victim to someone else's crap. And if the customer goes with the tosser who's trying to cut you out of the loop? Then how smart is the customer, and what'll happen when the other guy can't cut it? Customer will have to find someone else, and if your prices have gone up in the meantime (get my drift?), you're more likely to make a living as well.

Every failure, if you're smart, talented, and very determined, is one step closer to success, and an opportunity to hone your skills. This industry (in any country) isn't fair, and never will be. That's life. Once you accept that, then envy ceases to be an issue, and you don't get emotionally hammered if you don't get the gig.

You get better instead, if your desire is strong enough, and your skin's thick enough..

Regards,

Alex.

p.s. I'm not trying to preach to anyone here. Just passing on my little chunk of experience, and if it helps, good. 
I started with absolutely nothing, and watched a whole lot of talented 'friends' who didn't want it badly enough and they whinged and complained about the industry. The real reason they never went full time, or couldn't organise regular work, was because they didn't want to do the gritty stuff, like pick up the phone, or knuckle down and learn, or practice, or chase new opportunities constantly, until they were working.
And I heard a bookful of excuses from talented guys who lacked drive, and bloody minded determination, who felt their skills were 'good' enough, and couldn't understand why the world couldn't see it. 

Some of you guys write really good stuff, and i'd hate to see that talent go to waste just because someone was 'envious' of you to the point of trying to slow you down, or you 'felt' the world owed you something. 

Paul had it right......

Buy ordinance.


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## midphase (Aug 5, 2006)

> I think composers can be friends... as long as they are a continent apart! Like with this forum, we're all friends cause we never get in eachothers ways in work and busines.. but imagine living in an island all together and looking for work. We would possibly hate eachother!




That would be LA! But actually this is not the case, most composers who live here have been extremely nice and helpful! There definitely seems to be a sense of comradery, like we're all in the trenches together!


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 5, 2006)

I remember Scott Smalley saying that he intentionally organized the composers in his book of scores so that the ones that dislike each other arent next to each other.

Its a dog eat dog world.

(And I hate you all 

:twisted: )

just kidding of course :wink:


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## PaulR (Aug 5, 2006)

TheoKrueger @ Sat Aug 05 said:


> but imagine living in an island all together and looking for work. We would possibly hate eachother!



What you mean like England? Yes, that's very good Theo. Well done.


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 5, 2006)

Are you beeing ironic because you are in a position to pass higher judgement, Paul? Explain yourself and leave the childish talk aside.


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## PaulR (Aug 6, 2006)

TheoKrueger @ Sat Aug 05 said:


> Are you beeing ironic because you are in a position to pass higher judgement, Paul? Explain yourself and leave the childish talk aside.



Childish talk? This is a thread about envy right? A word not part of my vocabulary for over 45 years. And you expect people like me to take it seriously? I don't think so.

I'll tell anyone who's interested how to deal with envy - grow up.


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 6, 2006)

It seems that temper and reason diminish with age instead of flourishing.

We will grow up eventually, everyone does. The question is how many mature when they do.

So you don't think that Envy is a ethical problem worthy of discussion? Perhaps then we should also turn a blind eye and erase from our vocabulary all the ugly things in the world like gluttony, sloth, greed and pride to name a few. Maybe then we would all be grown-ups.


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## PaulR (Aug 6, 2006)

TheoKrueger @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> It seems that temper and reason diminish with age instead of flourishing.
> 
> We will grow up eventually, everyone does. The question is how many mature when they do.
> 
> So you don't think that Envy is a ethical problem worthy of discussion? Perhaps then we should also turn a blind eye and erase from our vocabulary all the ugly things in the world like gluttony, sloth, greed and pride to name a few. Maybe then we would all be grown-ups.



Theo - my dear fellow - because we've had some good conversant times in the past, I'm prepared to take this with a pinch of salt and a good spirit. Yes, it's true I tend to conveniently forget the passing of time when talking to younger folks - which is a poor attitude I agree at times.

But I think it's fair to say when bringing up the so - called 7 deadly sins - that in todays world you'd be wasting an inordinate amount of time worrying about all of that. If dumbness in humans today could be harnessed as raw energy - you'd never need to build another nuclear power station.

As you get older - you get far more impatient btw. Not the other way round as a lot of people think. That's a fallacy unfortunately.

Things like envy, gluttony, avarice etc are just part of normal everyday life that you learn to ignore if you have an IQ above 12. You need to trust me on this.


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## Trev Parks (Aug 6, 2006)

PaulR @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> If dumbness in humans today could be harnessed as raw energy - you'd never need to build another nuclear power station.



Indeed - its a fact that Tony Blair and his cronies could light up the whole of Norwich on their own. Only thing is that he'd still have to insist on constructing a few nuclear power stations in order to fuel his own dumbness. Catch 22.


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 6, 2006)

Dear Paul i'm with you, we've had good talk in the past. Talking a bit out of the teeth sometimes is also good because after the resolution comes, more things remain than would from a usual talk of agreement. 

(As for the pinch of salt; don't listen to what those health freaks say. The more salt the better.)



> Things like envy, gluttony, avarice etc are just part of normal everyday life that you learn to ignore if you have an IQ above 12. You need to trust me on this.



I remember reading something like "Greedy people taught me to be self-sufficient, impatient people taught me patience, bad-hearted people taught me kindness. But for some reason i am ungrateful to these teachers"

It is by judging and condemning these ugly things that we can make ourselves better everyday, if we ignore them we might start doing them and not even notice. Self-criticizing is a good thing, it's like having a raw rock and trying to sculpture it into something nice by removing unwanted pieces.


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## Hermitage59 (Aug 6, 2006)

Trev Parks @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> PaulR @ Sun Aug 06 said:
> 
> 
> > If dumbness in humans today could be harnessed as raw energy - you'd never need to build another nuclear power station.
> ...



Norwich Trev?

More like Europe, and then some.


:smile:


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## PaulR (Aug 6, 2006)

Trev Parks @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> Indeed - its a fact that Tony Blair and his cronies could light up the whole of Norwich on their own. Only thing is that he'd still have to insist on constructing a few nuclear power stations in order to fuel his own dumbness. Catch 22.



As the Chinaman said - I came to England in search of Norwich - and found it in East Anglia. Very Benny Hill- ahhhhhh!

Now it's almost possible to be envious of Tony Blair - forgetting for a moment he's married to a letter box. Think about that salary and that pension and that warm seat just waiting in THOL. How does something like that happen? Well this just brings us back to duh - a deer a female deer.

I'm thinking of that old film The Candidate.

And think of his possible replacement - Cameron.

I'm still thinking about The Candidate.[/flipv]


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## Trev Parks (Aug 6, 2006)

PaulR @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> And think of his possible replacement - Cameron.



Makes me shudder. Problem is that once Blair's (alleged) recent love affair is spattered all over the papers ad nauseum then Cameron becomes more than just a polyp on the anus of humanity. He becomes a serious candidate.


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## JacquesMathias (Aug 6, 2006)

PaulR @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> TheoKrueger @ Sat Aug 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you beeing ironic because you are in a position to pass higher judgement, Paul? Explain yourself and leave the childish talk aside.
> ...



Thanks everyone for answers! :wink: 

PaulR. The matter is, we are not childrens. I pay all my bills since i'm 14, living alone and working with music. I know how "cold heart" i had to become to deal with many situations in my life. I just would like to ask for a more "professional side" of dealing with "envy". :smile: I'm NOT saying : Let's cry cause everyone hates me, :wink: I'm not an idiot. I meant how to deal with people trying to block our development because they envy us or something like that. Kicking their asses unfortunatelly isn't something we can do all the time. Diplomacy, still needs to be used. What i personally, always prefer to do.
I'm sure that "grow up" is an act that we have to repeat all the time in our lives. And for me, grow up means learning to deal with bad fellings as well, like envy. I'm still a human, and i seriously do not want to lose the conections with my felings, and become a guy who doesn't care about anyone and nothing. My music depends of my feelings. Very sensitive = bad , Very brutish, equally bad.

So, been said this, please take me a little bit more seriously, since i consider your comment was directly made for me :smile: I'm not a guy who has started a musical career yesterday. You are really more old and experienced, and i have a great respect for you. 

Cheers :smile:


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## José Herring (Aug 6, 2006)

JacquesMathias @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> I just would like to ask for a more "professional side" of dealing with "envy". :smile:




I usually seek professional help.


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## choc0thrax (Aug 6, 2006)

I don't think i'm capable of feeling envy.


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## midphase (Aug 6, 2006)

Are you Vulcan?


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## Waywyn (Aug 7, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Mon Aug 07 said:


> I don't think i'm capable of feeling envy.



"fascinating!"


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## PaulR (Aug 7, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> I don't think i'm capable of feeling envy.



Neither am I.

Don't worry Jaques - The Meek shall inherit the Earth! (whats left of it)


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## PaulR (Aug 7, 2006)

JacquesMathias @ Sun Aug 06 said:


> I'm not an idiot. I meant how to deal with people trying to block our development because they envy us or something like that. Cheers :smile:



Hang on a minute Jacques - I just noticed this. Are you sure you're not talking about paranoia?


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## JacquesMathias (Aug 7, 2006)

PaulR @ Mon Aug 07 said:


> JacquesMathias @ Sun Aug 06 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not an idiot. I meant how to deal with people trying to block our development because they envy us or something like that. Cheers :smile:
> ...




Well, i could start kidding with you to :mrgreen: But i won't. I just asked for other's opinion. You gave me. Well, thanks for that Sir :wink: 

Cheers.


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## PaulR (Aug 8, 2006)

JacquesMathias @ Mon Aug 07 said:


> PaulR @ Mon Aug 07 said:
> 
> 
> > JacquesMathias @ Sun Aug 06 said:
> ...



My opinion is this! Everyone here should write a 60 second piece of music entitled Envy. Get it out your system style.


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 8, 2006)

Hehehe, we believe that we are very good so we adopt modesty and we also believe that we are so good as for people to envy us for our greatness (since they are not good enough to be modest and virtuous, they envy us)


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## JacquesMathias (Aug 8, 2006)

PaulR @ Tue Aug 08 said:


> JacquesMathias @ Mon Aug 07 said:
> 
> 
> > PaulR @ Mon Aug 07 said:
> ...




Well, i know your opinion is this. And i'm ok with that.  

Have a nice day :wink:


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## iocomposer (Aug 8, 2006)

midphase @ Sat Aug 05 said:


> That would be LA! But actually this is not the case, most composers who live here have been extremely nice and helpful! There definitely seems to be a sense of comradery, like we're all in the trenches together!



Sadly, that hasn't been my experience at all. Being in LA has turned me into a total introvert.....which is a big departure from who I used to be.


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 9, 2006)

"Being in LA has turned me into a total introvert"

Why is that Jamey?


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## iocomposer (Aug 9, 2006)

TheoKrueger @ Wed Aug 09 said:


> "Being in LA has turned me into a total introvert"
> 
> Why is that Jamey?



Well, mostly because I'm working so much, that I have no time to go out and meet people. The only people I'm in contact with are my clients who come in and out. When I'm not working (which is only a couple hours per day), I want to be with my family so that makes the opportunity for social efforts very rare. 

That said, when I do get out on the rare occasion, I find the dynamic of people here in general very frustrating. It's just that I grew up in a different kind of dynamic and I have a hard time dealing with the concept of how people interact here. Not just competing composers but pretty much everyone you meet (industry related, which is pretty much everyone). It seems like everyone is feeling you out for what you can do for them. I've literally been in situations where once people find out what I do, they rudely turn around and walk away as though I were some sort of vermin. Most people just go for the throat though....walking my dog and I run into someone asking me "so what do you do?". Then, there's this little dance of name dropping and networking me...it's really gross. I can't get used to it.

I guess the difference is that I really don't have to network much and I don't have any kind of "desperation" vibe. I'm in demand, have been for many years and will be for the unforeseeable future. I don't really need anything from anyone and that puts me in a totally different headspace then most people here, who are desparately trying to climb the Hollywood ladder. That's what is making me an introvert....I'm repelled by the social dynamic.

-Jamey


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## kid-surf (Aug 9, 2006)

Sorry to hear that, Jamey.

I'd say I'm the opposite. I find it "entertaining" to network. Then again, I was born in Hollywood (Cedars). I just don't take it all that seriously, I know that after a certain point it's outta my control and so forth. I would say I'm vigilant, driven, but not desperate. 

I've meet plenty of people where I'm like "wow, they are definitely on a different planet", but for the most part people don't hit me that way. But it can be annoying when you're talking with someone and they are looking over your shoulder to see if there's anyone more important to talk to.  But if that's their job... then that's their job.

A funny situation I had a few months back was: So my wife and I were at the CAA Golden Globes party. We we're chatting with whoever. So her colleague sees Jeremmy Pivvvon (misspelled on purpose), tells us he has some business with him and asks my wife to go with him. So he and my wife are chatting to him, he's nice as can be. Then I stroll up and they introduce me. He shakes my hand like "oh, hey.... anyway" then immediately turns his back to me, as to say "FU". Was pretty funny.... 

Those are the types I can't stand. It's like, hey man, it's a party "put on by CAA", chill out and be nice or why bother going? It's not like I was some fan asking him for a piece of his hair for my locket, I was simply introduced to the dude.

Meanwhile Tom Cruise (a way bigger celeb) is there and as chill/nice as can be. Go figure.


But the key to sanity in this business, IMO, is having friends who AREN'T in any way involved in the industry. When both spouses are involved in the industry it makes it sort of an industry household. Still, you gotta have friends that are 'normal'.  Luckily my wife and I have many friends that do other things. Yet, the friends we have that are IN the industry aren't freaks. They are genuinely good people who put family and friends first. The type of people you know wouldn't throw you under the bus to strike some deal.

I do play "the game" though... I don't see any other option for myself. An agent once told me (woman), "you aren't a blond with big tits, you gotta be your own agent til you have one". For many there's just no way around that... not in Hollywood. 

Which brings me to: Charisma. Many of the most successful people I come in contact with are very charismatic. Even writers. I think the industry is so used to "stars" being this way that they expect it of everyone, even writers, even composers. Generally, they want everyone to have that "Star Quality". I believe it's what they are accustomed to.

Yet, I believe there's a way to do it without being a "snap snap", if you catch the meaning. (i.e. cheese ball)

My view of H-town.........


PS... nice to see people being open and honest. I mean, why not be?


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## iocomposer (Aug 9, 2006)

Interesting take on it, Kid. I guess it could be viewed as a "game"....though that may take some time for me. I'm just really into depth in my relationships with people and I'm a pretty sensitive fellow so it frustrates me to find out that people I thought were friends were really just latching on to me to meet my contacts or whatever....that has happened a LOT of times to me over the past few years....I'm becoming less náive and more skeptical about the people I meet....which is not the way I had hoped to be.

I think that you're right in that your true friends are people outside of the industry, cuz at times I feel like I can't really trust those in it. If I were struggling to break in right now, I think I'd probably have second thoughts about doing this stuff as a career. It just seems like being a nice, soulful artist type and "the industry" are in direct conflict with each other at the core. Luckily, I have the best of both worlds at this moment in my life....but in general...I'll take a soulful artist over an industry mogul any day 

I've gotten that turn around and FU act more than I'd like to account for. Talk about deflating! I really wish I could just laugh at it...maybe some day.

-Jamey


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## PaulR (Aug 9, 2006)

iocomposer @ Wed Aug 09 said:


> I'm repelled by the social dynamic.
> -Jamey



Good man! Very sensible.


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## iocomposer (Aug 9, 2006)

PaulR @ Wed Aug 09 said:


> iocomposer @ Wed Aug 09 said:
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> > I'm repelled by the social dynamic.
> ...



So are you the designated sarcastic a**hole for the thread?


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## PaulR (Aug 9, 2006)

iocomposer @ Wed Aug 09 said:


> PaulR @ Wed Aug 09 said:
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That was not sarcasm - that was real. If I was being a sarcastic asshole, you would be well aware of being the chosen asshole who was the designated recipient.


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## iocomposer (Aug 9, 2006)

PaulR @ Wed Aug 09 said:


> iocomposer @ Wed Aug 09 said:
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lol! well, I misread ya mate...sorry 
-J


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## PaulR (Aug 9, 2006)

iocomposer @ Wed Aug 09 said:


> PaulR @ Wed Aug 09 said:
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That's quite alright Jamie. I actually found your first post incredibly interesting as a matter of fact - very incisive in a lot of ways. But of course this is not just prevalent in the music or the general show business scene. 
Sarcasm, opting out of social dynamics, humour - all these things are really only forms of defence against a weakening and at the same time more threatening world we live in. Take your misreading of my post for instance - a natural reaction to our times in some ways. The English have traditionally used all forms of humour as protection - Americans have difficulty with this in some ways because of their social climate and upbringing. I'm not saying that one way is better or anything so coarse or crude as that - but it should give you an insight to why a lot of us don't regard things like envy as anything more than fluff on a piece of clothing that is easily brushed aside.

I think all Yanks should adopt someone from England - while there are still any English left.


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## Hermitage59 (Aug 9, 2006)

PaulR @ Wed Aug 09 said:


> iocomposer @ Wed Aug 09 said:
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Never a truer comment Paul. 
The worse a situation gets, the harsher the humour. It's our Britannic defense mechanism. (I found Russians are a bit like this too.)

Given the american method of serious discussion versus our defensive 'humour', such as it is, i wonder if we as Britons are becoming steadily more unacceptable (slowly extinct?) in society, as political correctness takes a greater stranglehold over both societies, and directly challenges our unique british method of dealing with life's challenges.

Interesting discussion.

Regards,
Alex.


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 10, 2006)

Thanks a lot for the answer Jamey, I asked because i think i know how you feel. It was the same for me (more or less) when i moved to Australia for two years of studies; after a while i started feeling more and more apart from everyone and didn't want to hang out with people anymore. I had grown up with different values and ways of socialising so i couldn't let go and fit in. (Let go = change my self to something i don't like in order to make friends)


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## kid-surf (Aug 10, 2006)

Jamey--

Well, I started heading down this "entertainment" path at 21. I mean I was in bands and shit before that, but at 21 I was signed as a model. So that was my first experience as a professional "something" in the entertainment world. My first agent experience and so forth. And so, i figured it would be easy to make my way to the top.

So, I booked a national commercial (as an actor, go figure, never acted in my life previously --but hey if anyone needs an actor, I'm SAG.  ). Anyway, so back then you'd make like 20-30 grand on a national commercial. My buddy made 60k on one spot. So that was my big break and I was all stoked, my agent was stoked etc. (yet I thought I was model? What was I doing acting?). Anyway, so it's the day of the shoot and I'm literally walking out the door to go to the set and my phone rings. My agent says "I have bad news, they've moved the campaign to New York". Just like that it evaporated. And I'd already spent the money in my head. Thing was, i had no idea that they could pull out like that. I was a clueless kid. 

And man was it fun watching the commercial run every 5 seconds. 

At this same time my band's demo was out to various industry people. And the feedback was starting to come in. F#CKING SLAMMED!!! I got slammed like no other. Although, one manager wanted to hear more about me but ultimately passed. But mostly I just got railed. So here I was a 21 year old kid, more or less, thinking this was going to be easy and I'm getting hit left and right with really bad news. That turned me really cynical and jaded for a good 2-3 years.


I started getting more jobs modeling. Good ones. Went over seas and did that whole thing. And started the music thing back up when I got back.

Well, it took me a while to realize that this wasn't a 'personal' business on many levels. And that people are willing to cut you loose at the drop of a hat. Not much loyalty over all. 

So... now a days I play it more like a game. I know bad stuff is going to continue to happen, it's ups and downs the whole way. But I think if you don't take it all that seriously (meaning let it crush you/or over inflate your head) then it's easier to deal with the bad/good news when it comes. 


The good friends you have you keep close. And I do have some industry friends I would trust with my life. Then there are some that I'm just playing "the game" with.  But for me it's about 60/40 (trust/don't) as for the people I come in contact with.


*By playing the game* --- I simply mean. I won't let situations get me down, or get me too high either. I will position myself and so forth. But I'm always sincere. I'm not fake the least bit. Both my wife and I are totally grounded, IMO. And that's probably why 'she' is so respected. Whenever we're at parties/premieres/events and such people always come to me and say "your wife doesn't seem like an agent, I just love her, she's the best and I'm not just saying that". If you are sincere you sorta force those around you to drop the BS. Yet, I think you can be both "real" and a "game player" at the same time without losing who you are. My wife has made it pretty far playing that way, so I believe in the 'sincere' approach to Hollywood. 

You just can't let shit turn you into the jaded cynical type. Been there done that. I'm always happy now a days no matter what.


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## kid-surf (Aug 10, 2006)

Btw-- I was thinking about that the other day (you mention soulful artist and the industry not mixing).

I was thinking that to be a professional musician/composer it's pretty hard to remain "pure". I was contemplating whether or not that was a negative. I came to the conclusion that the most "pure" artists in the world are broke. 

I believe this industry couldn't work any other way... perfect in it's imperfection.


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