# What new MIDI keyboard



## bryla (Aug 25, 2009)

Hey guys -

I'm looking for a new MIDI keyboard. I don't know what's out there, and the ones I can find are maybe not for me. My criteriae are:

88 keys (preferably weighted)
Connections for expression pedal and breath control
pitch and mod as two separate wheels.

Maybe more things, but can't think of them. These were the most important ones. It shouldn't be pricey, and doesn't have to have fancy things like sequencer controls or audio interfaces.

What can you recommend?

Thanks,
Thomas


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## R.Cato (Aug 25, 2009)

http://www.thomann.de/gb/fatar_sl990_pro.htm

It's a really cool midi keyboard. Played on it while visiting the Thomann Shop. I am sure it's the best midi keyboard out there with 88 keys and just for 349 Euros.

Greetings Robin


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## damoy (Aug 25, 2009)

I've got my eye on the Akai MPK88. Hopefully comming out in October.

http://www.akaipro.com/mpk88


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## bryla (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks,

Fatar doesn't seem to have the MIDI connections I want.

AKAI looks very interesting! The only problem it MIGHT have for me, is that the mod wheel is not adjacent to the keys. But I'll have to try it first.


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## chimuelo (Aug 26, 2009)

It's actually an excellent design, and a great collection of MIDI options.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
One handed Orchestra playing wasn't what they had in mind, but rather 4-zone synth splits, pad shots while right hands adjust sliders...
Linkin' Park style. 
Strictly a live performance keyboard.
These disposable KX8's and KX88's are fine for a year or two and then the cheap keybed will have a contact stuck at 127 velocity, but you get what you pay for.
A90 and Oberheim MC3000 were the last of the good quality keyboards.
I still have my MC3000 and use it for any dynamic recording I need to do, but I cannot tolerate it's weight, especially w/ a case.
They were built to last though, and the way one can have programmable velocty curves for Rhodes, Upright, Grand or any sample library is excellent.
Many people complain about action when actually the responsiveness of the library is half of the battle.
I will go and play the Akai this weekend but I am already expecting to be disappointed as usual with any 88 note controller.
It seems as though we just have to grin and bare it.


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## Stevie (Aug 26, 2009)

The wheels are definitely NOT a good design.
Why on earth do devs think they should but place up there?


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## Synesthesia (Aug 26, 2009)

Just got a new Doepfer LMK4+ from Thomann.

I broke a key on my PC88 (!) got a bit overexcited playing a drum part in..

Very very happy with it, a great keyboard, has everything I need in a controller. Loads of velocity curves too.

Cheers

Paul


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## Mahlon (Aug 26, 2009)

I don't think it's out yet, but the Fatar Numa Nano looks ok, paired with a control surface for CC data. The size, weight are right for my setup -- I have to fit it in a rather narrow riser. Problems may be the keybed -- don't know what it's like yet. And the price. Too much money -- so the keybed better be something special.

Mahlon


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## Hal (Aug 26, 2009)

i dont know why this akai keys look cheap just from the picture.
the Doepfer ve always been my dream.


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## bryla (Aug 27, 2009)

The oberheim and doepfer looks very promising!

I can't find any stores in Europe that sells them.
The Doepfer is a bit too expensive.

Does anyone know the CME UF80? It's half the price of the Doepfer


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## Rob (Aug 27, 2009)

Thomas, I bought a CME keyboard and returned it to the dealer the same day, the key action was really bad... but it's been a couple of years ago, maybe the keyboard is better now. BTW it seems that CME is the only one implementing a BC in.


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## chimuelo (Aug 27, 2009)

Wow, I totally forgot about the Doepfer. It actually has better action than my MC3000 but lacks the finite Programmable Velocity curves for making your Rhodes feel like one too.
The Doepfer is probably steep but in a world of Chinese jive, it's a shining city on the hill.
The CME keyboards are total crap. I hate to be a party pooper and not be positive or quiet, but I concur with Rob, and Sound On Sound actually got in trouble from Arbiter for giving those junkpiles an honest review. I guess they pay for lots of advertising and bought 1000 of them...............sorry to hear about it.
I recieved an email from a private developer who is a performing Pianist who is experimenting with his own design using the new MIDI 2 specs, and a keybed from Fatar I believe the FP Wood choice. I hope to see this @ NAMM 2010. I doubt it will be cheap, but the usual 0-127 for velocity has been expanded to 0-16000 on CC #88 and I did manage to play the new spec last NAMM and it was immediately noticable on Ivory/Receptor. On the first test I could hear and trigger 10-12 different layers, twice the amount of the best controllers that are out there. The problem I have had is when I do find good action, there is barely any MIDI controls, and I can't understand this. I get frustrated at these cheap controllers but at least they offer excellent surfaces. I actually suffer through barely acceptable action on KS88'sbecause of their excellent MIDI control.
This developer promised to have both w/ new specs, so we'll see next NAMM.
Below is an ancient library for Gigastudio where the velocity layers might be 4 and 4 down, but the Oberheim's Programmable velocity curves are stored per preset and can be recalled instantly. It's not a great recording but the dynaics are greatly enhanced and it actually makes one dig in deeply for the over driven tones like the ones we used in College where everybody had phones and a 200A.......

http://forums.planetz.com/download/file.php?id=4382


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## Hal (Aug 27, 2009)

bryla @ Thu Aug 27 said:


> The oberheim and doepfer looks very promising!
> 
> I can't find any stores in Europe that sells them.
> The Doepfer is a bit too expensive.
> ...


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## bryla (Aug 27, 2009)

My Yamaha also has BC... How do you guys connect it, if it hasn't got a dedicated connection? I don't own one, but plan to buy one soon.

Rob & Chimuelo, thanks for the insight. Now I have to save money for something in that league....


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## Lunatique (Sep 3, 2009)

Try Kurzweil PC3X, or if you want to save money, used PC2X, which is what I have. The action is not as crisp as I'd like, but I got it because it's got built in breath and expression and ribbon controller jacks.


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## Synesthesia (Sep 3, 2009)

for the sake of completeness and in the spirit of composers helping composers, I should point out that the scan rate of the modwheel on the LMK4+ is not quite as high as my old PC88..

Really annoying.

I don't want to change the keyboard back as I love the action on this - nicest I have ever had.

Guess I need to start scanning ebay for a control freak. Why didn't I buy one back in the day!!!

Anyone got a spare control freak they want to sell me??

Cheers

Paul


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## Synesthesia (Sep 3, 2009)

chimuelo @ Thu Aug 27 said:


> Wow, I totally forgot about the Doepfer. It actually has better action than my MC3000 but lacks the finite Programmable Velocity curves for making your Rhodes feel like one too.
> The Doepfer is probably steep but in a world of Chinese jive, it's a shining city on the hill.



Believe!

While my PC88 was in the repair shop i bought a 'master controller keyboard' that will remain nameless. It was utter utter crap. 10 different curves, all sh*t.

Almost unplayable. Did they have a man with no hands beta testing this turd?

I promise that the Doepfer has the greatest action I have ever used. Wonderful. and 64 velocity curves, adjustable black key action to drop the sensitivity - depending on your technique, hahaha... although I have to confess I have dropped it by 2%.

These things are nightmare expensive, but its the primary conduit for your expression if you are a keyboard player. 

Chimuelo, I would be very interested to hear any info about that new keyboard if there is anything you are able to share!

Cheers,

Paul


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## synthetic (Sep 3, 2009)

Chimuelo, was the the guy building custom folding keyboards with poly aftertouch? I cna't think of the name, but we played it at NAMM and weren't impressed with the feel. He had 6 keyboard feels to choose from but they were all spongey. 

Kawai MP5 and MP8II have the best keyboard feel I've found. I wish they would do a slightly smaller, cheaper MP8II as a controller. Probably not a huge market, but an easy derivative product for them...


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## synthetic (Sep 3, 2009)

damoy @ Tue Aug 25 said:


> I've got my eye on the Akai MPK88. Hopefully comming out in October.
> 
> http://www.akaipro.com/mpk88



Well, Akai = Alesis. So probably the Chinese Fatar action from the QS8.2.


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## Mahlon (Sep 22, 2009)

Does anyone know the dimensions of the mpk88? I can't find the weight, length, depth anywhere -- not even at Akai's site.

Thanks,
Mahlon


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## Mahlon (Sep 22, 2009)

Thanks. :D


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 22, 2009)

Chimuelo, the KX-88 wasn't a cheap keyboard. Is that the one you mean - from the '80s?

You can still find them on the used market.


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## chimuelo (Sep 22, 2009)

Hell no Brotha' Man.........the KS88's from M Audio.
Their action sucks but I can wing it just fine. It's the layout and MIDI that impressed me. I use tons of realtime CC manipulation for Kontakt and my Scope stuff, so it's perfect.
I had the KX88 w/ a TX816 and a QX-1. Bought it while I was in Japan, months before it was available here.
That was a great action keybed, but primitive MIDI.
The CS80 had the best polyphonic aftertouch keybed I ever played.
Yeah, back then Yamaha had the best hardware and it lasted for years. I still use the QX-1 for vocal effect & lights live.

I know the Akai will be the usual acceptable action, I do like the layout and the pads could be a nice alternative to using the lower notes for keyswitching.
Those pads are big enough to hit rapidly w/o worrying about missing. I could never hit the right keys while I was singing or comping so I bought the MIDI Solutions F8 and use footswitch pedals for keyswitched articulations.

With me, I have to cover so many parts I could never go back to keyswitching using notes.
From playing a B3 w/ pedal as a kid these footswitch pedals are easy to hit,and I don't even have to look.
Mostly trumpet falls, swells and shakes, but while playing a comping B3 part.

I will see the Akai in 3 weeks from what I heard from the retailer.
I will post back.

CiaoMein..

JAV


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 22, 2009)

> Yamaha had the best hardware and it lasted for years



I have an RX-15 in my closet that I bought in 1985 as part of my first MIDI rig. It still works fine. I also have a TX-7 that works.


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## damoy (Nov 9, 2009)

So anyone got their hands on an Akai MPK88 yet? No one in town here plans to bring them in :( so I'm going to have to trust someone's review.


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## chimuelo (Nov 9, 2009)

I don't like anything Yamaha makes anymore, but I betcha if the same build quality is used on the Motif's they will be around for years to come.
I had to replace the power chord on my QX-1 after 23 years of sequencing, ,and thankfully I memorized the keys because they are all black, but it's kinda cool showing off to local crews when I automate scene changes in the dark.
But Stevie Wonder smokes my ass as all of his gear was in Brail and trying to do anything other than playing keys w/o sight is a serious wake up call. The dude is still at the top of his vocal and performing game.

I would bet the Akai has a few good surprises up it's sleeve.
I have the Akai LPD8 controller to automate hardware and DSP Multutracks using MMC, MTC and MIDI CC and it comes with BeatKangz drum software at certain retailers. These guys are Urban and then some. NI tries in K3 but I am afraid they never seen the Hood too much on a Friday night... :mrgreen: 

I use the 8 pads for autolocate points. Punch ins and pre roll for the hardware is also a breeze. 
I can only assume how unique and useful the 88'r is. As soon as I see one I won't buy it as I am happy with the wortless crap I use, but I will report on it as I believe that Dog Will Hunt.

http://www.akaipro.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/212875 (http://www.akaipro.com/contentmgr/showd ... /id/212875)


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## bryla (Nov 21, 2009)

Hey! Anyone have an answer to my question?


bryla @ Thu Aug 27 said:


> How do you guys connect it, if it hasn't got a dedicated connection? I don't own one, but plan to buy one soon.


Reason I ask this question again is that I'm currently looking at the M-audio Keystation 88es which fulfills all my needs except the BC input. And also: Anyone have experience with the 88es? 

Second keyboard I'm looking at now is the Fatar VMK-88 plus
http://www.fatar.com/Studiologic/Pages/VMK_88.htm
experiences?


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## bryla (Dec 1, 2009)

bump


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