# Locking Sound to Picture? What's your method?



## Frederick Russ

This is an extensive subject so based on the suggestion from Scott Cairns I'm putting up this poll.

I'm interested to see what file format everyone is using, hardware setup, compression, picture size, etc. Share your knowledge!


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## Herman Witkam

Mostly the director does the encoding, and gives me an internet link to it. Only thing I have to do is to load it in my sequencer, so I'll be glad to gain some knowledge on that point from this topic, in case I have to do it myself.


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## Scott Cairns

Hi Frederick, sorry, I was supposed to create the poll. :? 


I have received AVI files and CD/DVD's and video tapes for my project so capturing has been a requirement too.

I usually capture the video at 320 x 240 and double that size upon playback in my sequencer.

Here's an interesting point I read; I use NO compression or codec on my video capture as apparently any form of this will up the CPU usage. The resulting file is quite large but it only stays on my drive for the duration of the project.

I've been hearing that some of the Mac guys are using a new form of encoding, might've been mpeg4? Apparently this is pretty slick and efficient. One option is to do two pass encoding for a better quality file. I haven't yet experimented with this though.

Also, if you have a seperate machine available, you might want to capture and encode on that as it can take a long time.

I capture with an ADVC-100 via a firewire port on a networked slave machine.

The advc-100 also has analog outs if you ever want to output a VHS sample with your music for a client to see. Many of the lower end capture cards will have analog and/or digital in but will lack the analog outs.

If you run a Mac or have Vegas for the PC you can preiview your video out to firewire which essentially means you can output the video file playing on your computer to a TV. I'm still not aware of any PC sequencers that have a preview to firewire option.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos

When I experimented with writing music to video (see example on my website), I did all kinds of conversion tests, using DVD Vob files as input. My favorite codec now is the new Indeo one (not the old, free one). After ripping the Vob file from the DVD (which can be compared to getting the director's material) I first create a rather big AVI file (using the Indeo codec), with high quality settings and a 1:1 aspect ratio, for instance 1024 x 768. This is the point where I also set the target frame rate and interleave setting.

From this "master" I create a smaller version with a SMTPE time code burn in Vegas, with some optional brightness control. I use this version in Logic or SX2 to run along with midi. 

After I have mixed and mastered the audio, I import the big AVI, the small AVI and the audio mix into a Vegas project, check the time alignment and render the big video with the audio to the required output format.

I have found Mpeg-2 to be the lousiest format, and prefer Windows Media and DivX. For internet publishing you have to create as much versions as you can host (IMO). When you work with a director, the syncing and rendering is all up to him and his team. 

My 2 cts, I am just in interested amateur in this area :wink:


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## Simon Ravn

As everybody else probably, I sometimes receive files on CD, sometimes VHS. I then render that to 720x576 PAL DIVX format and use a separate PC running Cubase for nothing but video sync, sync and temp track. This works flawlessly and is very responsive.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos

Good idea,

I once tried to use my laptop for this (with it's big 1600 x 1280 screen) running Vegas, but it didn't react well to the midi time codes sent from Logic on my DAW.

I agree this SHOULD work fine, so I will keep this in mind for a next time


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## Waywyn

i tried a lot of stuff and converted around and i dunno if i am doing something wrong or if its the best possibility.

i only use quicktime for everything what i do, encoded with sorenses 3 codec.
i also tried avi and other formats but i either get error messages or the pictures are really taking so much ram that it is nearly impossible to do music 

so i convert everything what i get to quicktime and can have files about 4 GB in my project and i can do whatever i want as long if the resolution is not too high. but something around 400x300 to 640x480 works okay and the frames are not damaged.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos

Don't forget that AVI is not a format, but more a data wrapper. I guess the same actually applies to QuickTime. The codec that you select to compress the individual frames is the most important. 

For my use on the PC platform, I once bought the XP version of the Indeo codec, which works best for me.

DivX may be great for just compressing and playing back movies, but it will give you serious backtracking and syncing problems, probably because it uses keyframes sparsely.

I never got an acceptable quality/size ratio with Mpeg.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

For my tv work, I still mostly use the old-style VHS system, and have a PAL/NTSC international player by Samsung. I use Emagic's Unitor 8 + Logic, and it's pretty solid. I did a feature a couple of years ago using Quicktime, and I loved the non-linear aspect of that, but 2 things make me want to stay with VHS for now:

1. I only have one screen, albeit a 22" Apple cinema, and I need all the space for big instruments like RMX.

2. I want to save the cpu for playing back all those great samples and softsynths!

I just really like my compromise between power and physical clutter. One computer (G5 dual) + one computer screen keep me happy.


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## Dr.Quest

For the last few years I've been using Quicktime. I can't imagine going back to linear tape sync. In the mid nineties I got a DC Miro 20 card and digitized my own Quicktimes with Adobe Premiere. Now, since most of the things I do are animations that start life in Flash or some 3d program, I make the QT's direct in the computer. 
I've been experimenting with a codec called Sheer, that give full rez picture are reduced CPU load. Very sharp and clear. (The files can still be quit large.
I use Final Cut to edit picture if I need to.
J


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## Niah

Does anyone here uses Vegas? I was curious about this software.


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## Simon Ravn

Vegas can't output fullscreen video as far as I know.


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## Niah

Oh.

Thanks simon


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## Simon Ravn

Ah well it can - through FireWire. But the window can't be set to full screen.


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## Scott Cairns

Ive sent picture out to a TV full screen via Vegas firewire. But its still too clunky for my liking. (like locking your sequencer to Vegas)

These days I maximise the video picture on the right hand monitor inside Cubase.

I actually did mention to Max once (FX-Max) that it would be good to have a kind of FX-teleport for Video. It would be ideal to run video off a seperate machine and stream it over CAT6 cable to the host. The compression and CPU load could be handled by the slave machine.

I might have to ask Max again about the possibilities.


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## José Herring

I'm pulling my hair out. 

I got a DVD ripper--Easy DVD Ripper--to rip my films that are now being delivered on DVD. THE .AVI FILES PLAY SLOWER THAN THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL. Has anybody ever experienced this before? Is there a fix for this?

Thanks,

Jose


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## Dr.Quest

josejherring said:


> I'm pulling my hair out.
> 
> I got a DVD ripper--Easy DVD Ripper--to rip my films that are now being delivered on DVD. THE .AVI FILES PLAY SLOWER THAN THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL. Has anybody ever experienced this before? Is there a fix for this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jose



It's the editors job to supply the sound designer/composer with picture to your specs. You should specify a picture format that works for you. If they supply something that slows you down they are going to blame you. There is no question about it.
Ask them for a format that works and insist on it. It's your reputation here that's on the line. Ripping picture from DVD's should not be the way to go UNLESS that is what works for you smoothly. If AVI works for you ask for that. Quicktime works for me and that's what I require. If it is sent on vhs with no timecode I charge the client to take it to a transfer house and do it right.
Just my thoughts on this.
J


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## Scott Cairns

Jose, sometimes the neatly compressed video clips with a small file size are a strain on the CPU when they playback.

Ive heard of guys running straight uncompressed video, the filesize is huge but it is dumped right after the project anyway.


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## Dr.Quest

I've had very good response using the Sheer Video codec avaiable here...
http://bitjazz.com/sheervideo/
They have a fully functional demo. Resave your movie using the Sheer codec after you install it. Large file size (but smaller then uncompressed)
but smooth playback. Try it a see what you think.
Cheers,
Jamie


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## fictionmusic

I use a variety of formats. I still have two big sony Umatics (BVU-800 and the VO-5600) which I like a lot, mainly because of the computer power they leave free. I sometimes get stuff on VHS, and a more and more quicktimes. 

I am always looking to improve the whole system and am thinking of using a seperate PC just for video. I need to learn more about it though, and the systems I already have are pretty stable (but if either of the U-matics crap out I am not going to get them fixed)


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## José Herring

Thanks for your replies.

Jamie I agree with you completely. I'm usually a stickler for getting the right format. I usually use plain old VHS but I'm trying to go all computer these days.

My client isn't that computer saavy and the editor has left a long time ago. There is no music editor who I'd usually rely on for this kind of work and I'm trying to save the client grief by taking on more responsibility because she's paying rather well.

But, saying all that I'm definately going to do it your way next time.

Jose


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## Thonex

I capture AVI through the Canopus DV110 and then play it back using the QuickTime option in Nuendo's video prefs.

T


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## jonathanparham

A couple of years back I had some files delivered as quick time. But it's not something I do often; though I know things get delivered like this often. So I have some very basic questions of synch.
So how is time code preserved when say someone outputs something from AVID or Final Cut? Does it stay synch based on the codec used? What happens when someone delivers me a DVD or VHS and I want to rip QT's, how do I gaurantee my synch? I was just hinking that maybe there are a few frames that might get dropped or something.


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## ComposerDude

Re Final Cut output, I have a client who sends me DV output from Final Cut Pro without timecode. So I spec'd, co-designed, and built a box that starts a frame-locked LTC timecode generator upon seeing the color bars in the preroll video signal, during a dub from DV to the workhorse UMatic. The cool part is that subsequent re-edits from the client (he's usually continuing to edit when I get preliminary music) can be reliably re-sync'd such that 01:00:00;00 remains the first frame of program video, so the hitpoints untouched by editorial changes remain in sync across versions. (Without the bright-video detector box, the TC start point would be random.)

-Peter


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## jonathanparham

Peter,



ComposerDude said:


> So I spec'd, co-designed, and built a box that starts a frame-locked LTC timecode generator upon seeing the color bars in the preroll video signal, during a dub from DV to the workhorse UMatic. The cool part is that subsequent re-edits from the client (he's usually continuing to edit when I get preliminary music) can be reliably re-sync'd such that 01:00:00;00 remains the first frame of program video, so the hitpoints untouched by editorial changes remain in sync across versions. (Without the bright-video detector box, the TC start point would be random.)



hmmm seems pretty solid if you're getting that result. What is your box? Is it a peice of software or some hardware device?


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## christianobermaier

The moment when i bit the bullet and invested into two decent VHS decks was the very moment when i stopped getting VHS tapes :roll: 

Quicktime ever since.

Usually i drag it to the other computer and play it back there through a now old Miro DC30+ video card. Takes the strain off the main computer and gives me video playback on a TV screen. And the option to easily print VHS worktapes should i ever again be asked to supply them...

Playing video locked to MTC on another computer also makes it easy to divide the project into cues, as you just have to start a song at another TC address, as opposed to having the video start at bar -868.1.1 if it was on the music computer.

Christian

http://www.artofthegroove.com/logic/mp3/Christian_Obermaier_demo.mp3 (show reel) http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/home.htm (home page) http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/Studio.htm (studio pics) http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/Gearlist.htm (gear list)


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## ComposerDude

jonathanparham said:


> Peter,
> 
> 
> ComposerDude said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I spec'd, co-designed, and built a box that starts a frame-locked LTC timecode generator upon seeing the color bars in the preroll video signal, during a dub from DV to the workhorse UMatic. The cool part is that subsequent re-edits from the client (he's usually continuing to edit when I get preliminary music) can be reliably re-sync'd such that 01:00:00;00 remains the first frame of program video, so the hitpoints untouched by editorial changes remain in sync across versions. (Without the bright-video detector box, the TC start point would be random.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm seems pretty solid if you're getting that result. What is your box? Is it a peice of software or some hardware device?
Click to expand...


[edit - a mercifully shorter version of the tweaky details]:
Hardware, tweaked so we can start locally-striped timecode consistently and reliably during my dub to the playback video deck.


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## jonathanparham

Peter,
Thanks for the in depth explanation. But I when you say issues vanish with quick time, I guess that's my question. Couldn't something be off by a frame or two if you computer is doing a lot of processing?


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## ComposerDude




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## jonathanparham

Peter,
Thanks for the explanation. Quick time is becoming so common now, especially as project studios get more desktop video editing.

I guess the best you can do with Quick time is:check the codec, ask for timecode 'burn in,' request 2 pop, and bars.


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## ComposerDude




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## Ian Livingstone

I've been getting stuff for the project I'm on as a DVD.

Tried loads of rippers with varying success - dvd2avi, Fairuse wizard etc

Now I rip using DVD Decrypter (freeware) to an mpg 2 file (it rips to a .mp2 file) and seperate ac3 stream for the audio. I rename the .mp2 to an .mpg, de-compress the ac3 to a stereo wav using a freeware program BESWEET and that's it. Means I get a perfect DVD quality picture full screen, with seperate audio.

Word of warning to people using Nuendo or SX - keep your mpg as seperate picture with no audio and have the audio as a seperate wav before you import it into your project - so that nuendo's video player can just focus on playing the picture instead of having to distinguish between 2 seperate streams in the mpg. Even though when you import an mpg/avi it extracts the audio to your folder, it still has to work harder seperating the 2 streams.

Ian


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## José Herring

Simon Ravn said:


> As everybody else probably, I sometimes receive files on CD, sometimes VHS. I then render that to 720x576 PAL DIVX format and use a separate PC running Cubase for nothing but video sync, sync and temp track. This works flawlessly and is very responsive.



Simon, are you still do it this way? Do you send sync out of one computer using midi time code into another or do you have them networked?

Jose


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## fitch

ned .. i know you're on logic .. can you tell me whether you start a new "song" for each .mov you use in the project or just keep using the same one and lock the various scenes..

i've been using separate songs for each scene of a film i'm working on.. but a couple of days ago i decided i wanted to adapt one cue for something else too..

so i lined up both scenes and wrote away. no bother..

i eventually bounced a couple of stereo stereo files so theyt could get sent off for evaluation.. thank god i opened a new song and imported the new stereo files to check them against picture.. because the second one was all out of sync...(the 1st one was fine) had to scrap the second file in the song and start over again on a clean song.. there were then no syncing issues..

WTF>>> is this a logic foible ? or do we really have to start a new song for each scene to be sure of it matching..


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## TARI

Usually directors give me a DVD so I use Super DVD Ripper and recompress to Microsoft MPEG 4 in AVI format. The size I use is 320x240 and when I need to see the full screen I do it in Cubase just with a click. It works for me


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## Ned Bouhalassa

fitch said:


> ned .. i know you're on logic



Hi Claire,

I haven't used QTime for a film/tv thing in ages! But when I did, yeah, I only used 1 movie per song. Typically, 1 mov would equal 1 reel of film. Same thing for an ad or an opening/closing tv theme. If you're getting a bunch of short movies, and you find it a drag to have so many songs, just ask the editor to make you longer combined versions.


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## TARI

With quicktime I have this problem: When I put the cursor for example in 1'23", the screen does not goes to that point if the sequencer is in stop. When I click play from that point, the movie starts to run quickly until it reaches to the exact point. I don't know if I have explained correctly :roll: 
So I prefer to use AVI. 

The sequencer I use is Cubase SX3. Does somebody has the same problem?


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## Commander

Most of my film arrives as either a QuickTime movie or on VHS. If it's on VHS I encode it using an ADVC-100 box and Final Cut Express. The files are then played as QuickTime movies in Logic Audio on a seperate screen. 

I've found that I can't use a TV screen for the picture since it is always about 12 frames out compared to the movie on the computer screen, which is absolutely useless for spot effects. Would a seperate computer solve this problem - a Mac Mini for example? I'm quite happy working to the computer movie but it's a bit intimate when I have clients around and we are all crowded around the same screen!


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## Ed

Commander said:


> I'm quite happy working to the computer movie but it's a bit intimate when I have clients around and we are all crowded around the same screen!



oooh yea baby!


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## Commander

Ed said:


> oooh yea baby!


Well, it depends who they are of course!


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## jonathanparham

Does anyone use this?

http://handbrake.m0k.org/


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## Synesthesia

*mac dvd ripper*

A quick recommendation for Cinematize.

Runs on OS X, nice and solid, can output dv, quicktime movies etc, and I've used it on a few shows when I couldnt get QTs with no timing issues or dropped frames, etc.

Nice looking output too. Use it alongside iDVD and imovie for assembling bits for my reel!

Cheers

Paul


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## kid-surf

I use Quicktime. 

I tried running it out to a TV video monitor (once converted to DV - otherwise it's grainy). But I didn't like it. Also will convert via ADC-100 if I have to, wich is rare now a days. 

My new way of doing it is just running it in side DP then dragging the video over to another screen (dual screens on my G5). That way it's got it's own screen and the 23" Cinemaâ„¢ can be used entirely for DP. Then I dump it to the Quicktime file and it's ready to upload for them to see it. 

*My question is:* how many of you guys are getting window burn now a days? Do you guys even bother with it when the times are all over the place (i.e. cuts). 

On my last thing I was just running reel by reel. The whole reel in each cue. I'm not into trying to edit video..... I don't really understand it and don't wanna compress it and take a chance on F'ing up the timing. Besides, it takes too long.


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## Mike Greene

A year ago I would have said Beta SP, but recently it's all been Quicktime with a 2-pop. I guess maybe it's time to finally take that old VO5850 3/4" deck out of the rack! :shock: 

- Mike Greene


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## ComposerDude

Mike, what kind of header/preroll are they putting on the QuickTime? Color bars, slate, and countdown?

-Peter


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## gamalataki

Mike Greene @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> I guess maybe it's time to finally take that old VO5850 3/4" deck out of the rack! :shock:
> 
> - Mike Greene



As soon as you do, someone will send you a 3/4" tape from their 90's "hit" that never got sold. Besides who needs a hernia from lifting those things. They do make great boat anchors though. :mrgreen:


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## Mike Greene

ComposerDude @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> Mike, what kind of header/preroll are they putting on the QuickTime? Color bars, slate, and countdown?
> 
> -Peter


Sometimes a preroll or color bars, but generally just the 2-pop (that beep exactly 2 seconds before picture start).

Or else visual time code. If they give me just visual time code, then I'll add the 2-pop myself when I send them music.



gamalataki @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> As soon as you do, someone will send you a 3/4" tape from their 90's "hit" that never got sold. Besides who needs a hernia from lifting those things. They do make great boat anchors though. :mrgreen:


Now I just need the boat! :mrgreen: 

- Mike Greene


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## ComposerDude

Mike, thanks.


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## Patrick de Caumette

TARI @ Sat Sep 03 said:


> With quicktime I have this problem: When I put the cursor for example in 1'23", the screen does not goes to that point if the sequencer is in stop. When I click play from that point, the movie starts to run quickly until it reaches to the exact point. I don't know if I have explained correctly :roll:
> So I prefer to use AVI.
> 
> The sequencer I use is Cubase SX3. Does somebody has the same problem?



Very strange. Never had this problem.

Don't you love computers :mrgreen:


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## José Herring

I'm doing the standalone computer thing. Thanks for the tip Frederick about quicktime pro. I'm receiving .mov files from the editor but they're like 2 gigs each. I'm using an old G3 with a copy of DP 3.1.1 on it. I'm cutting up the .mov file in quicktime pro and making the files smaller. Loading up the files in the mac g3. Then I set up DP to send mtc out and lock up my PC's running Cubase SX3 and one other computer as an FX teleport slave. 

I'm done with running picture on my main machine. Once the orchestration starts to build up there's no telling what's going to happen with the picture. It's my firm belief that picture lock should be done the old fashion way. Away from the music machine. Turning a computer into a virtual video tape player makes the most sense to me.


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## hv

I've done 4 or 5 with a standalone setup. I usually get a dvd in need of a soundtrack. Most of them were made on Macs and require the viewer, but some have been regular dvds. In either case they all seem to drop right into a Sonar track and I can stick an lcd display on a keyboard stand and just play and record a midi track. Usually with gs3 supplying the instrument sound but I've also used NI instruments. Once the midi's recorded it can be nudged to video frame alignment... did that once for the soundtrack of an Air Force video of their 1st sinking of a battleship. Then I render it to wav (or freeze if I used an NI instrument) making sure the video track start and wav start are the same. Then I drop them into Vegas/DVD Architect and make an encoded DVD.

Howard


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## Hans Adamson

josejherring @ Sun Apr 02 said:


> I'm doing the standalone computer thing. Thanks for the tip Frederick about quicktime pro. I'm receiving .mov files from the editor but they're like 2 gigs each. I'm using an old G3 with a copy of DP 3.1.1 on it. I'm cutting up the .mov file in quicktime pro and making the files smaller. Loading up the files in the mac g3. Then I set up DP to send mtc out and lock up my PC's running Cubase SX3 and one other computer as an FX teleport slave.
> 
> I'm done with running picture on my main machine. Once the orchestration starts to build up there's no telling what's going to happen with the picture. It's my firm belief that picture lock should be done the old fashion way. Away from the music machine. Turning a computer into a virtual video tape player makes the most sense to me.



Using mtc, do you think physically routing the sync signal over midi cable to the other computer would introduce latency?


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## José Herring

Hans Adamson @ Mon Apr 03 said:


> josejherring @ Sun Apr 02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm doing the standalone computer thing. Thanks for the tip Frederick about quicktime pro. I'm receiving .mov files from the editor but they're like 2 gigs each. I'm using an old G3 with a copy of DP 3.1.1 on it. I'm cutting up the .mov file in quicktime pro and making the files smaller.  Loading up the files in the mac g3. Then I set up DP to send mtc out and lock up my PC's running Cubase SX3 and one other computer as an FX teleport slave.
> 
> I'm done with running picture on my main machine. Once the orchestration starts to build up there's no telling what's going to happen with the picture. It's my firm belief that picture lock should be done the old fashion way. Away from the music machine. Turning a computer into a virtual video tape player makes the most sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using mtc, do you think physically routing the sync signal over midi cable to the other computer would introduce latency?
Click to expand...


No. Using MTC it will after a period of half an hour of continous play slide a few frames behind. But if you start and stop the video again it will usually be in sync again.

I seldom write cues that are 8 to 10 min in length anymore. I use to but now even on a continous music sequence I'll divide it up into 2 or 3 smaller sequences. So I'm looking at 3 to 4 minute cues max these days. MTC is fine for that. 

I'm sure there are better options. I'll look into them later but for now for general picture lock mtc is great.

Jose


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## ComposerDude

Regarding the info about apparent MTC slippage, there may be a hardware or software problem. Here's the technical background on both the latency question and how MTC works for sync.

At a nominal 30 frames/second (29.97 but who's counting) each frame occupies 1/30 second which is 33.33 milliseconds.

At normal MIDI transfer speeds of 31,250 bits per second, presuming roughly 10 bits per MIDI byte and a typical 3-byte MIDI message, it takes about 1 millisecond to transmit a 3-byte MIDI message.

Though there's probably a bit of additional latency in processing, the lag for MIDI sending as above is about 3% of a video frame.

MTC makes use of "full frame messages" that are a multibyte System Exclusive message sent for precise locating, and "quarter frame messages" that send the nybbles (4-bit values) from the SMPTE timecode during program running.

Eight quarter-frame messages are necessary to deliver a complete SMPTE timecode (which means it takes two video frames for quarter frame messages to transmit the entire code) but this works OK since the frame numbers increase in a defined way, and each quarter-frame message acts like a sprocket hole for synchronization.

The two key points about quarter-frame messages: they advance with the true SMPTE time, and they are CLOCKING messages, about 8.3 milliseconds (33.33mS / 4) apart. (They're only 2 bytes, and take up about 7.7% of the MIDI bandwidth: about 240 bytes per second out of about 3125 bytes per second total MIDI bandwidth on a port.)

If you are seeing drift even in a long cue, I don't think that can be blamed on MTC, since the SMPTE-to-MTC interface is responsible for correctly generating MTC to follow precisely the incoming SMPTE timecode, and should adjust the MTC quarter-frame interval to precisely track the frame rate.

One more issue, which is that when reading SMPTE in its audio "LTC" (longitudinal timecode) form, an entire SMPTE frame must be read before you know what the frame number is. This makes the "read" number one-behind the actual number. So customarily SMPTE readers will (optionally) advance the reported frame number by 1, so that the number it SAYS the frame is, IS that frame's correct number.

There is a quiz next period.


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## José Herring

I never doubted for a minute that it was hardware related. I basically am using an old Studio 4 on a mac g3 sending mtc to a USB Fast Lane. I haven't spent a lot of money on midi sync and don't really intend to since all the stuff I do is software based these days anyway.

The info you have is great though. I can see that with a little effort I can get perfect sync even over longish periods of time. That's usefull when screening films scores for producers and directors.

Thanks for taking the time.

Best,

Jose


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## ComposerDude

You're welcome, Jose!

I'm curious about the Studio 4 issue since my experience with Opcode stuff has been really positive, at least on the Studio5LX. I've never had a timing problem with Studio Vision as long as I stayed in non-drop-frame format (drop-frame would work also but sometimes was associated with system crashes - aargh!).

[EDIT: This involves driving the Studio5LX LTC input from the audio output from a VCR locked to crystal-controlled blackburst, maybe that's why my sync was solid...who knows.]

Anyway, "in theory" MTC should precisely be tracking the SMPTE, at least that's how it's supposed to be working.

Good luck with that!


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## José Herring

The Studio 4 for 15 years has been on every Mac i've ever owned. I never made the swithc to OSX since I switched to PC instead. It's always been rock solid sync wise on one machine running one sequencer.

This past December I got a film and the producer gave it to me the old fashion way. On a VHS tape with sympt video burn and corresponding audio code on one channel and all other audio on the other channel. What I did was to run the video's audio timecode into the Studio 4 interfaced to my old Mac G3 running Digital Performer 3.1.1. That locked perfectly as usual. But....this time I then set up DP to send MTC out of the Studio 4 to a USB interface attached to my main DAW, Cubase, on a PC. It worked rather well when composing but when screening the film to the producer, the PC after about 20 minutes would drift as far as 15 frames behind MTC. I would then stop the tape and restart it and everything would be okay.

I think I know what the problem could be. Because you're saying that MTC should be pretty tight I'm now looking into my Cubase settings. Cubase has problems with midi timing and they solved it by adding a "use system time stamp" option for incoming midi data. What this does is it ignores the incoming midi time information for an interface and calculates it's own time. It works great for internal pluggins, but do you think that this may be the cause? Or, when I slave to external sync does it bypass all the internal sync mechenisms in Cubase? Curious, I'll have to run some more test with that same video tape.

I appreciate you helping me sort this out.

Best,

Jose


----------



## ComposerDude

Glad to help (hopefully this proves actually helpful!)...

MIDI intrinsically carries no timing information, it's just (typically) 3 bytes sent on a serial data line. So the time that the MIDI is "on the wire" establishes the time of the MIDI event.

Due to USB interface latency etc., various modern MIDI interfaces implement time-stamping of incoming MIDI messages to properly capture the highest resolution in timing, and also support time-stamped outbound MIDI messages to better deliver at the appropriate time. Though MIDI takes about 1 millisecond to send a packet of info, the start time of that packet can vary at a sub-millisecond resolution, so the onset of the event can be much more fine-grained than just a millisecond. USB is a host-polled protocol ferrying boxcars of up to 1K bytes every 1 millisecond. So the timing system at the interface level gets you potentially improved resolution.

I'm not really familiar with Cubase or its interfaces, but I think that if your interface is off a slight amount, any delay would be a systematic error that should not grow with time.

The divergence you're experiencing with your setup suggests that either 1) Cubase is somehow ignoring the SMPTE timing and running from its own clock which may drift relative to the VCR and the embedded LTC, or -- 2) if you could actually be off by 36 frames (instead of just 15) after 20 minutes, it could be some non-drop-frame vs drop-frame scenario. It's worth checking the type of code that's on the tape as well as what type of code Cubase is set up to handle.

I think the key is that when playing it for the producer you're starting at the beginning of the show and running through, playing back dialog off the VCR and merging with your music played "live" by your sequencer.

You may not have noticed the sync slippage during composing if you do the usual start-stop-start-stop stuff because the Full Frame messages would properly locate your Cubase to follow the current VCR location, presuming you're working on a segment at a time.

By the way, independent of what we're discussing above -- a sync problem can propagate back to the client if you were perhaps to use a VCR that didn't run precisely at the right speed, then compose and lay down music that was clocked to the off-speed video but was recorded on a crystal-controlled interface. Assuming the client's VCR was running at the correct speed, the client would then have to deal with non-sync'd music or would have to timestretch it somehow.

For VCR stuff it's useful to drive the VCR by a crystal-controlled blackburst "house sync" clock so the frame rate is exactly correct, especially if cues are delivered en masse instead of cue-by-cue.


----------



## José Herring

Got it thanks. I'll check into my settings.

Jose


----------



## Waywyn

okay, one question left here.

i still mainly use QT for everything and it runs smooth, but when the session gets really busy i encounter that QT sometimes just uses too much ram. although you can put in big tracks like 3-4 GB which still runs fine, but it uses too much ram.

are you guys using QT had a chance to lower that ram usage by using another codec? i use the sorensen 3 but i think i might get a better result by using something different.


----------



## lexaudio

I have been up and down this road with much intensity and found out numerous things.

All video is using some type of codec, large or small, that use up CPU cycles.

Here is what I do:

1) Matrox G750 video to external via Video Overlay
2) All videos are NTSC DV 720x480, QT .mov files. (they are digitzed via FCP from DVCam.)

I have a TFT LCD screen with less than 8ms latency. It is a 17" analog computer monitor.
I use this:
http://svideo.com/video2vga.html
This converters either Svideo or Composite to XVGA, and works really well. I have it set for 800x600 and all other controls can done with its remote (brightness, contrast, frequency, ect)

The latency between onscreen picture and external is not even a 1/2 a frame.

Rather than go into all the problems with QT and QT Alternative, I'll just say this. I have dumped them both. Wiped off the system.
You don't need them.

Cinepak Codec: Looks alright but not great.
But, for a 16 minute reel, you are looking at about an hour and a half for convertion.

Here is what you do:

1) download Rad video Tools:
http://www.radgametools.com/down/Bink/RADTools.exe

2) download this codec pack. It has everything and then some. It will play everything. Has QT ALT DS Filters, QT abilities and alot of codecs.
http://www.codec-download.com/latest/k-lite-mega-codec-pack-1.57-12125.html (http://www.codec-download.com/latest/k- ... 12125.html)

The 2 codecs I found to be the best looking as well as the least CPU hungry are these:
Intel IYUV and Indeo 5.11 or 5.2 (there is little difference)
With the Indeo there are some settings I still have to see if it improves the video quality

For example, a 720x480 pic looks nice and uses about 20-22 percent CPU but blurs in places when there is alot of movement.

So, Open Rad Tools select the source file and hit the convert button. Select your destination (default is .AVI).
I have found that the larger the dimensions, the greater the CPU usage.
So I am converting the NTSC DV file (720x480 native) to 320x240. (you can change the size with the furthest right 2 boxes.)

Intel IYUV, 320x240 uses about 8-11 percent CPU and looks the best. It looks better than the NTSC DV AVI.
Indeo 5.11 or 5.2,320x240 uses about 4-6 percent CPU but has a little grain to it and isn't as clear. (again, there are other settings I need to mess with to see)

Intel IYUV, 320x240 uses about 8-11 percent CPU and looks the best. It looks better than the NTSC DV AVI.
Indeo 5.11 or 5.2,320x240 uses about 4-6 percent CPU but has a little grain to it and isn't as clear. (again, there are other settings I need to mess with to see)

Update - Indeo 5.2 - 320x240 - Compression 100 (0 if the worst), Alpha Channel selected is a little better. There is still a little pixelation.
It would be fine for the least amount of CPU useage when you are under heavy CPU load.

You CPU meter of your sequencer isn't going to show you the CPU used from the video.
In Nuendo/Cubase a blank session with just video reads 0%, but in Task Manager it reads 22% when running a native DV. So don't be fooled into thinking that your video isn't using CPU cycles because your sequencer doesn't show CPU activity.

LEX


----------



## mirrodin

I usually get small video projects, and I can control the timing of video events since I'm usually involved in both sides of the production, so it's pretty easy for me to sync. Everything is digital with my setup. I get the video in a digital format (mpeg, or AVI, etc..) So everything regarding sync is done in-the-box. Thanks to programs like Acid Pro, Sonar Producer Edition, and Vegas Video I can get just about everything done that I need to work on the projects I get. I don't know TOO much about the technical specs for the encoding and rendering the final video, but I usually get the formats requested specifically.


----------



## mathis

For the current project I recieve Quicktime DV files. In Quicktime Pro I create reference files for the individual cues and load them into Sibelius and Sequoia. Works well enough.


----------



## Stevie

I convert every movie I get from my clients into Quicktime MJPEG. This makes it possible to scrub thru every frame without hogging too much on the CPU.


----------



## Adelmo

we use QT, however most stuff coming in these days are mp4 or mov and avi but we use a great little application that converts every visual media to another on mac called Visual Hub, its very fast, so we convert all the films/ reels we get into DV format, i found that logic or any apple media system prefer this format for streaming


----------



## Evan Gamble

Man old thread. Kid-surf was actually composing!


----------



## MaraschinoMusic

OK, an ancient thread - but I'm still in the dark ages. I ask for a timcode window dub, use a Sony BVW-65 Betacam player and a video monitor, and clock Logic from the SMPTE output via Unitor 8. It seems to work just fine...


----------



## Walra48

On Mac Cubase here. I get the show Quicktimes on my FTP in mp4 format.
I re-code to Apple Photo JPEG 320x240 @ 75% quality using MPEG Streamclip.

I import the video into Cubase extracting and splitting the stereo audio into 2 mono files
One for live sound/fx. The other for temp music.
(I request this audio separation format from the post supervisor in advance.)

No problems.


----------



## juniorhifikit

Very old thread, but a few things that still seem to apply to any video format:

- Always try to get a window burn of the timecode so you can verify sync in your DAW's timeline.
- Always try to verify the video format & frame rate in order to match your DAW's settings.
- Always try to put a 2 pop at the head and the tail of mixes & stems (2 sec. before picture start and 2 sec. after last picture frame).

SFX work and ADR often require a bit more accuracy than music with regards to sync, but it's a good idea to use as little video compression as possible (like DVcam) to make it easier on your computer (more horsepower for virtual instruments!), and use a format that has a key frame at every frame, otherwise it can be difficult to find the exact frame while scrubbing.

I'm on a Mac, so usually whatever the client sends me, I convert it to a DV pro .mov file in Quicktime. The $35 investment in Quicktime Pro in order to export to any codec was a no-brainer. Beware that Snow Leopard installs the new Quicktime X player, which is really dumbed down and removes the export features. You need to go to the OS installer DVD and specifically tell it to install the older Quicktime 7 player - it still functions normally with all the export features.


----------



## charlieclouser

Very old thread, but as I've been using the same method for ten years it still applies:

- Digitize incoming project via ADVC100 using Final Cut Express into dummy FCE project on slave Mac Mini, quit without saving.

- Dig around in the "Capture Scratch" folder and drag the capture files out to desired folder and rename.

- Use Virtual VTR or Logic Pro to play said files on the Mac Mini slaved to MTC/MMC coming from main machine. 

- Enjoy freedom from lag on main machine since no video is present on that machine.

- Mac Mini plays video via ADVC100 - composite video goes back to DVD recorder, S-Video goes to big screen, audio goes into two analog inputs on main rig for monitoring of temp and dialog playback.

- When I need to make preview DVDs, audio from main rig (which can include dialog and temp via MOTU CueMix or Aux Inputs in Logic) goes into DVD recorder and video comes via composite from ADVC100.

Simple and cheap.


----------



## MATAHARI

hey charlie,

Can I do this with a second older mac G4 and link it to my Mac Intel dual core running logic?

what would I need to connect the 2 machines? the older mac cant run logic node.

thanx!

Hayley Moss


----------



## MATAHARI

hey charlie,

Can I do this with a second older mac G4 and link it to my Mac Intel dual core running logic?

what would I need to connect the 2 machines? the older mac cant run logic node.

thanx!

Hayley Moss


----------



## Ed

I get delivered Quicktimes most of the time, I import into Cubase 6... DONE.


----------



## MATAHARI

yes me too... but the quicktimes are draining to much power when I have big arrangements.

and Im working on longer formats like film with larger files


----------



## MATAHARI

yes me too... but the quicktimes are draining to much power when I have big arrangements.

and Im working on longer formats like film with larger files


----------



## gsilbers

if the qt are h264 it will strain more the computer. try dv or photo jpeg codecs.

also, u can get pt9 w any pc and sync it up to your daw via midioverlan.


----------



## MATAHARI

I was wondering if protools 9 would do the trick....


thank you I will further investigate!


----------



## johnhamilton

It's really just a case of drop and load, most sequencers now take all type of video format so you can compose and not have trouble with conversion and nonsense like that!

VHS?! Video tape?! What is this legendary phenomenon!


----------



## MacQ

Well ... this thread _is_ almost 7 years old now ...


----------



## johnhamilton

someone's been doing some digging into the forums!


----------



## charlieclouser

Get ready guys - VideoSlave is almost ready. 

I can't remember if I've mentioned it already, but I've got a programmer in Germany who is coding a standalone video player app for Mac that will slave QT movies to MTC.

It will play all modern video formats and framerates, have a playlist so you can have multiple reels of a movie all cued up at once, and will cost $100.

Save those old CPUs too, as we are hoping it will have PowerPC support so you can use that old G4/G5 as a standalone video slave - if Xcode allows.

I'm getting an early build next week to start testing - fingers crossed!


----------



## givemenoughrope

wow...sold!

bonus points for the name reminding me of Videodrome by Cronenberg.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Any news on this?


----------



## charlieclouser

The latest on VideoSlave is that it's up and running - with lots of bugs that are being squashed as we speak. Currently it requires Intel and 10.6, and it remains to be seen if doing backwards compatibility builds from Xcode will break more stuff. First we have got to get it as clean as possible before attempting the backwards compatibility builds. It has a simple window with a transport at the top and a playlist below - video is displayed in a second window which can be full-screen on a second monitor, without scrollbars or other junk cluttering it up. The current test machine is an Intel Mac Mini with HDMI out - the HDMI works as a secondary monitor. Firewire video output can only work with DVSTREAM format files at SD resolution - just like in the old days of DVDs and Canopus boxes. 

Lots more stuff to test before it hits the streets, but so far IT WORKS.

Stay tuned..... I'll make a big announcement on here when it's ready!


----------



## ctpeck

Hi Charlie,

Any chance VideoSlave will overlay streamers and punches?


----------



## charlieclouser

ctpeck @ Wed Dec 21 said:


> Hi Charlie,
> 
> Any chance VideoSlave will overlay streamers and punches?



Not at the moment. For now it just gives you what you'd get by having the video in the timeline of Logic or ProTools, without the hassle. It's sort of like a VEP for video - offloading the disk and cpu load to a secondary computer, and allowing you to set up the video once and switch between multiple cues on your main rig without setting up video for each cue.

Latest update is that it's up and running on my 2011 Mac Mini under Lion, and we're just fiddling about with file format compatibility and so forth....


----------



## non-lethalapplications

*VideoSlave - the affordable non-linear VTR for Mac*

Hey there guys,

I am the programmer Charlie mentioned in his previous posts and I am very proud to finally announce that VideoSlave is almost ready to be sold!!
( Screenshot is attached to the post )

It took way longer than we expected as a lot of problems arose when it came to super-tight and millisecond accurate sync of the QuickTime movie to incoming timecode.

But now all that's left is the authorization engine and some bug-fixing.

I also have a request for you guys : 

I would need some testers for the software.
Your task would be to use VideoSlave in your normal working environment and test for errors and bugs intensively. In case you find something, you should file a bug report ( I will provide a PDF as template ). In return, you would get a free license of the software worth 250 USD.

In case anyone is interested, please send an email to [email protected]

Thanks very much in advance!!
Stay tuned!!

Best,

Flo / Non-Lethal Applications

PS : As Charlie mentioned, the software now does all the basic stuff needed. If anyone has a feature request that would be useful, hit me up at the above mentioned email address.


----------



## charlieclouser

Well, I've finally started using VideoSlave as my everyday solution for video playback, and it's GREAT. MIDI Machine Control is working fine, so when you drag clips or reposition the play cursor in Logic the slaved video locates just as it would if the video was in Logic on the main machine. Lockup time is very quick (half a second-ish) and it just works. Sits there all day waiting for sync, and I can switch between the cues for various reels (and different SMPTE hours) in Logic and VideoSlave just does its thing.

No more importing video into each cue in Logic! No more cpu/disc stress on the main machine! It's awesome. I'm running VideoSlave on an i7 Mac Mini and it's very happy. 

If you've ever wished you could avoid having video clips embedded in your main DAW, this is the solution for you. HIGHLY recommended!


----------



## givemenoughrope

Sounds good to me! Any luck trying it with Cubendo or PT sending MMC?

Where to I purchase?


----------



## gsilbers

charlieclouser @ Wed Aug 29 said:


> Well, I've finally started using VideoSlave as my everyday solution for video playback, and it's GREAT. MIDI Machine Control is working fine, so when you drag clips or reposition the play cursor in Logic the slaved video locates just as it would if the video was in Logic on the main machine. Lockup time is very quick (half a second-ish) and it just works. Sits there all day waiting for sync, and I can switch between the cues for various reels (and different SMPTE hours) in Logic and VideoSlave just does its thing.
> 
> No more importing video into each cue in Logic! No more cpu/disc stress on the main machine! It's awesome. I'm running VideoSlave on an i7 Mac Mini and it's very happy.
> 
> If you've ever wished you could avoid having video clips embedded in your main DAW, this is the solution for you. HIGHLY recommended!



do you have a link?

the page i found in google the program is only windows.


----------



## non-lethalapplications

The homepage will go officially online once the first version of Video Slave is released. 

But you can download a demo from preview.non-lethal-applications.com/products

I hope to get some more feedback from my beta testers to remove some minor bugs and would like to release it by the end of next week.

Stay tuned!!


----------



## charlieclouser

givemenoughrope @ Wed Aug 29 said:


> Sounds good to me! Any luck trying it with Cubendo or PT sending MMC?



I don't have Cubendo - and in my rig, PT is only a layback recorder and so my TC chain goes PT>Logic>VideoSlave. When I'm not actually printing a mix, Logic is on internal clock and VideoSlave locks to it. When I do print mixes, PT becomes the master, and still VideoSlave is hanging off of Logic.

There may be differences in how various DAWs deal with MMC - whether they send it as regions/cursor is dragged or wait until mouse-up to send a new position and locate command, etc., so if there's a problem it's the DAW's fault...

In Logic, MMC must be enabled separately from sending MTC on the sync page, but in terms of standard MTC operation with no MMC for cursor-scrubbing, I'm confident that all of the DAWs will drive VideoSlave just fine - but as I mentioned there may be vagaries in terms of MMC operation. Note that MMC is an optional extra functionality that is NOT needed for smooth operation of VideoSlave (MTC is all that's really needed) but having MMC allows for cursor-scrubbing of slaved video, which is a nice bonus.


----------



## non-lethalapplications

I also don't have a Cubase / Nuendo, but I can assure that Video Slave works fine with Logic and Pro Tools' MMC output. I would personally be surprised if it wouldn't work with Cubendo.


----------



## gsilbers

can video slave hold apple pro res 1080p? how about 720P? 



im asking cause we have VVTR hooked up to a projector so clients can see pix in a re recording stage while mixing/plaback. and vvtr is funky.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Thanks for the info, Charlie and Flo. 

I've only ever used MTC from Cubase (DAW) to Logic 8 (Video) and it worked well. No scrubbing but whatever...


----------



## RiffWraith

FYI: VSlave is Mac only. :( 

But Flo is nice enough...


----------



## ctpeck

The Demo seems to work ok with DP 7.24, Nuendo 5.5, Logic and PT10.2. I just can't get the cursor scrubbing to work in Logic 9.1.7 or Nuendo 5.5.4 with MMC enabled. Maybe this a limitation of the Demo?

Chris


----------



## non-lethalapplications

@gsilbers : Sure, VS plays everything QT can play. If you have an AVID DNx video for example, which QT can't playback natively, just install the AVID codec pack and VS will also be able to playback DNx. 
VVTR is doing it's job quite well, but do you honestly think an application that hasn't been changed for 10 years is funky? I would rather say it's pretty chunky 

@Chris Peck :

I just tried MMC scrubbing with PT 10.2 and Logic 9.1.6 and it worked without any issues. It definitely isn't a demo limitation.
Maybe you can see if the next update ( coming either today or tomorrow ) fixes this issue for you.

Best,

Flo


----------



## ctpeck

non-lethalapplications @ Thu Aug 30 said:


> @Chris Peck :
> 
> I just tried MMC scrubbing with PT 10.2 and Logic 9.1.6 and it worked without any issues. It definitely isn't a demo limitation.
> Maybe you can see if the next update ( coming either today or tomorrow ) fixes this issue for you.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Flo



Thanks Flo, I'll keep trying with the current version and look for the update in the next couple of days.

Chris


----------



## non-lethalapplications

All you testers : please hit the "Check for Updates..." menu item. Just released v0.99

All bug reports are appreciated!!

Thanks for your help.


----------



## non-lethalapplications

Hey hey,

I am proud to let you know my website at www.non-lethal-applications.com is now officially released.
There is a last public beta available for download.

The first official version of Video Slave will be for sale tonight.

Hope you all enjoy it!
Please feel free to get back to me in case you have feature requests, found issues or just have a question via [email protected]

Thanks to all the supporters!!

Best regards,

Flo


----------



## gsilbers

nice. 

you should post in gearslutz.com . im sure the post production forum will love this.


----------



## non-lethalapplications

I have already 

I had a thread over there where I was looking for testers for the software.


----------



## non-lethalapplications

It's out!!

The first official version of Video Slave can be downloaded ( and bought ) from my website www.non-lethal-applications.com

Best regards,

Flo


----------



## PMortise

charlieclouser @ Thu Oct 13 said:


> ...Save those old CPUs too, as we are hoping it will have PowerPC support so you can use that old G4/G5 as a standalone video slave - if Xcode allows...



Sweet.


----------



## gsilbers

nice. ! price is awesome!


----------



## Brian Ralston

I have worked a bit with Flo on the betas and VideoSlave is as Awesome/Powerful and yet simple as it sounds. It just works. You all should give it a try. 

I am no longer going to host video in DP...but on a slave machine with Video slave and MTC output from DP over the network and into the slave.


----------



## munician

I have also worked with Flo on the beta versions, and it was fun - he is very open to suggestions.

I use VideoSlave with MIDIoverLan on my MacBook synced to my main Mac DAW, and it just works!
Simple, efficient.

Highly recommended!

JJ


----------



## Daryl

I spent a bit of time trying to test VideoSlave yesterday. I couldn't get it to scrub (is that the right word for shuttling in sync through the project?), or advance one frame at a time when using Nuendo as a master. I also found the "5 minute only" demo really annoying. It may be that the limitations I was finding was due to the fact that every time I tried to test something, the demo would time out. If the software was as cheap as Chaingang, for example, I would just have bought it, but it's not cheap, so I'm not spending any money until I know it works properly.

Please consider increasing the demo time, because when faffing around with this stuff 5 minutes is not even long enough to set things up. 

Edit: I've got it all working, but find the picture rather jerky. I have also tested Streamers and the picture is much smoother. However, it seems that you can't shuttle around with any of these progress, which I assume is a limitation of using MTC. I still haven't found anything that works as well as using video through my Intensity card on the master machine. It's just a shame that the drivers are not great, which means that you can get spikes when working at low latency. :cry: 

D


----------



## non-lethalapplications

Hey Daryl,

thanks for your interest in Video Slave!
I will consider increasing the demo time. Haven't heard any complaints so far. 

There is a limitation in the demo version that forces the application to quit when the 5 minutes are over WITHOUT asking the user if he wants to save the playlist currently opened. If you save the playlist before the program quits, Video Slave will open the last opened playlist automatically on startup ( unless the checkbox is not set in the Preferences). It also stores the MTC In port. So there should not be a lot to be reconfigured when VS has to be restarted.

You can scrub/shuttle with Video Slave of course but this uses MMC (MIDI Machine Control) and not MTC.
MTC is just sent in playback while MMC Locate messages are sent when scrubbing.
You have to set some checkboxes in Pro Tools and Logic to enable MMC being sent.
I don't have DP or Cubase/Nuendo on my machines, so I can't say how it works there.

You are not the first that is not aware of that. Thus I plan on making a little "tutorial" on how to enable MTC/MMC in all common DAWs to put on my website.
Should happen some time soon.

I have also not heard yet that the picture looks jerky.
Which kind of video file did you try?

Best,

Flo


----------



## Daryl

non-lethalapplications @ Sat Oct 13 said:


> Hey Daryl,
> 
> thanks for your interest in Video Slave!
> I will consider increasing the demo time. Haven't heard any complaints so far.
> 
> There is a limitation in the demo version that forces the application to quit when the 5 minutes are over WITHOUT asking the user if he wants to save the playlist currently opened. If you save the playlist before the program quits, Video Slave will open the last opened playlist automatically on startup ( unless the checkbox is not set in the Preferences). It also stores the MTC In port. So there should not be a lot to be reconfigured when VS has to be restarted.
> 
> You can scrub/shuttle with Video Slave of course but this uses MMC (MIDI Machine Control) and not MTC.
> MTC is just sent in playback while MMC Locate messages are sent when scrubbing.
> You have to set some checkboxes in Pro Tools and Logic to enable MMC being sent.
> I don't have DP or Cubase/Nuendo on my machines, so I can't say how it works there.
> 
> You are not the first that is not aware of that. Thus I plan on making a little "tutorial" on how to enable MTC/MMC in all common DAWs to put on my website.
> Should happen some time soon.
> 
> I have also not heard yet that the picture looks jerky.
> Which kind of video file did you try?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Flo


Flo, thanks for your reply (and on the Nuendo Forum). I haven't got round to testing MMC yet, so I'll do that next time I have dome down time. If and when I get it working I'll let you know how it's done in Nuendo, so you'll be able to pass that information on to other potential users.

I think we were using Apple Pro Res. What codec do you recommend? There is no doubt that it looked better both in Quicktime and Streamers, but maybe we weren't using the ideal codec.

D


----------



## non-lethalapplications

Hey Daryl,

I didn't know that this was you over at the Nuendo forum, just accidently came across that post and thought there was another one completing about the short demo time 

In case you get it working in Nuendo, could you maybe make some screenshots I could use on my homepage?
Would be awesome!

Hmm, nothing I can tell you right now regarding the bad looking image.
Just tried some clips here and I couldn't see any difference.

But I have an idea what I could try.
Would you please PM me your email address so I can send you a version of VS to make sure this solves the issue for you?

Regarding the codec :
Accurate sync is just available with intra-frame only codecs like DV, Motion JPEG, Pro Res or DNx.
H.264 or MKV is not recommended because the minimum sync offset is dependent on the settings when encoding the movie file.

Best,

Flo


----------



## Daryl

non-lethalapplications @ Sun Oct 14 said:


> Hey Daryl,
> 
> I didn't know that this was you over at the Nuendo forum, just accidently came across that post and thought there was another one completing about the short demo time


Hah, yes I do get around. :lol: I'll PM you as soon as I get a moment.

D


----------



## Tanuj Tiku

Daryl,

I simply import the video inside Cubase as a quicktime or avi. Its worked well so far but is there a performance advantage with using any sort of external software or hardware?

What does an Intensity card do that is better than just importing a video file?


Tanuj.


----------



## Daryl

vibrato @ Sun Oct 14 said:


> Daryl,
> 
> I simply import the video inside Cubase as a quicktime or avi. Its worked well so far but is there a performance advantage with using any sort of external software or hardware?
> 
> What does an Intensity card do that is better than just importing a video file?
> 
> 
> Tanuj.


I started to use the Intensity card because using the onscreen window caused a performance hit when running video full screen on a 48" LCD TV. With the new video engine, processing is taken away from audio stuff, because AFAIK it all comes out of the same VST Performance allocation. Running on a separate machine will give 2 advantages:

1) There is virtually no CPU/ASIO hit at all, even when using a very high def or large picture.
") Quicktime is less of a piece of sh*t in OSX than Windows, so it means I ca have the best of both worlds; sequencer in Windows, which works much better than OSX, and Quicktime in OSX.

Once I get it working to my satisfaction, the next thing to do will be to test if there is a latency hit.

D


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## Tanuj Tiku

Daryl, 

I do have an output going to a 46 inch LED on full screen but I havnt noticed any serious performance issues.

Are you saying that you are using a Mac just to run the video? How do you manage latency etc? Or there is none?

I will look into the intensity card as a possible hardware for my upcoming studio space.


Regards,

Tanuj.


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## Daryl

vibrato @ Sun Oct 14 said:


> Daryl,
> 
> I do have an output going to a 46 inch LED on full screen but I havnt noticed any serious performance issues.


I've been using it for quite a few years, so it may not be necessary now. I don't know for sure. I'm just used to it.



vibrato @ Sun Oct 14 said:


> Are you saying that you are using a Mac just to run the video? How do you manage latency etc? Or there is none?
> 
> I will look into the intensity card as a possible hardware for my upcoming studio space.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Tanuj.


I can't answer the questions until I have it working satisfactorily. However, if your system works well, there is no reason to change it, IMO.

D


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## Firstfewbars

I have tried to connect 2 mac computers via ethernet, a master and a slave with video. Logic on both computers.
I works fine but the "scrubbing" does not work. Is that possible?


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## Firstfewbars

I solved it...


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## Cowtothesky

The editor will usually ask me what format I prefer and upload it to a file sharing site. QT seems to be the standard, which works good for me. Then, I just take it and import it into DP, set the frame rate and start times, import the audio to a separate track, and begin work. I always lock my tracks and save each cue as a separate project, to keep everything flexible. The whole process usually takes less than 10 or 15 minutes.


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## non-lethalapplications

Reviving this thread to let you know that I just released a major upgrade for Video Slave including streamers and punches support, audio routing, more....

See here for more information:
http://www.non-lethal-applications.com/products/video-slave-2-0 (http://www.non-lethal-applications.com/ ... -slave-2-0)

Thanks!

Best,

Flo


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## mirrodin

Interesting read, and extensive! 7 pages worth of comments in this thread. Everyone seems to have different workflows suited to their particular setups and types of work.

For me, all of my productions I've worked on have been smaller and all audio flows through me and I hand back final masters for the client to marry to their master video. 

Clients will share dropbox folders, upload cuts for me to work on. I import into Sonar, or use Adobe Media Encoder (part of Creative Cloud) to convert into a workable format. Up until recently (X3, and now platinum) I would have to use WMV as the format to import video into Sonar. My system could handle a 720 or 1080p @24fps video when the project is 2-4 minutes. Near zero delay to buffer even while scrubbing for a typical 60 or 30 second commercial spot. But for larger / longer timeline projects (last short film I worked on was a 17 minute project I handled all audio post on so I kept it 1 single session) I transcoded down to 320x240 just to have a thumbnail to reference roughly what was happening. I also went into Sonar and increased the buffer cache size for video thumbnails (I turn thumbnails off) and for some reason this improved playback performance on the longer video projects.

I would recommend staying away from H264/H265 compressed videos if you can, the temporal compression takes longer to build frames for playback and the further into the timeline you get the longer it takes to buffer (at least in Sonar). Thankfully all my work with quicktime MOV and WMV tends to be for commercials and short infomercial/documentaries/online media.

Quicktime I suspect would be the best especially if you can use the Pro-Res codec (handles frame indexing better, and you don't have to deal with temporal compression creating a large buffer).


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## non-lethalapplications

Folks, I'd like to chime in again to let you know that we just released a new version of the aforementioned Video Slave software. 

Video Slave 3 now includes professional audio capabilities in that it lets you create audio output busses from Mono to 5.1 with automatic up- and downmixing as well as many other new features!

You should definitely have a look at www.video-slave.com


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## JaikumarS

non-lethalapplications said:


> Folks, I'd like to chime in again to let you know that we just released a new version of the aforementioned Video Slave software.
> 
> Video Slave 3 now includes professional audio capabilities in that it lets you create audio output busses from Mono to 5.1 with automatic up- and downmixing as well as many other new features!
> 
> You should definitely have a look at www.video-slave.com



Hello there..

I'd just downloaded the demo version of Video Slave 3 and imported a video.mp4 with frame rate 25 into Videoslave 3 on my Video machine. My Video machine is synced with Cubase on my Master Computer via (Network MIDI) ethernet and while triggering MTC, and when I pause in cubase 9, the time display in Cubase shows - 01:00:01:089 where as the time display in Video slave is 01:00:01:02, could you please tell me how I can get identical time display on both Cubase and Video Slave 3?

Also wondering if there is an option to buy the software instead of using the subscription model?

Thank you

Edit-Issue resolved after changing the settings to TC on Cubase.


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## teammwrp

For those of you using the streamers function of VS3, how does it compare with other streamer solutions you have encountered?


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## José Herring

Off topic but I can't believe this thread was started 15 years Ago. I was in my mid 30's. 

VI Control Original Gangstas.


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## Hawks Music

Frederick Russ said:


> This is an extensive subject so based on the suggestion from Scott Cairns I'm putting up this poll.
> 
> I'm interested to see what file format everyone is using, hardware setup, compression, picture size, etc. Share your knowledge!


In my experience, i will usually receive a video file that has been timestamped which i then import into my DAW ( in this case Neundo. I love that program) Then i write from there. 
sometimes a few pieces are written beforehand even based on story.


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