# Touche SE controller for orchestral samples libraries?



## harmaes (Jul 23, 2019)

Anyone using Expressive E Touché SE as a controller for orchestral sample libraries? Strings, brass, woodwinds etc? How’s the setup in Kontakt, Omnisphere etc and does the Touché add more control of the libraries? 

Maybe also in comparison to the TEC breath controller?

Thanks.


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## harmaes (Jul 29, 2019)

Apparently not?


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## jonathanparham (Jul 29, 2019)

Seems like a pretty new device. I've just seen one demo from the developer and something from Junkie XL. However he was not using it with orchestral instruments. However he was showing something that could be intriguing.


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## romplin (Jul 29, 2019)

Very interesting device, but I don't know it obviously. Could this be the answer to the wish for a stand-alone pitch wheel/mod wheel replacement that you sometimes read?


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## harmaes (Jul 29, 2019)

I also find the Touché a very interesting device. I’m not sure however if I like the way you have to use their plugin / host software and the way to setup in Kontakt etc. Midi learn should be quick in Kontakt so would rather have 10 midi cc presets stored in the device then using their Lié software.


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## Novatlan Sound (Jul 30, 2019)

If you want to use MIDI CC automation (as opposed to host automation) you do not have to use Lié. I never use host automation für orchestral stuff, so I use the 24 Presets on the Touché to have different MIDI CC combinations for different VIs set up and I only start Lié when I want to change those Presets.

I like Lié as a software and I think their speedmapping is quite good. But the instruments I use are mainly made by some of the larger orchestral sampling companies, like Spitfire, Orchestral Tools* or ProjectSAM. All these tend to have default CC for most things, so it is actually much easier and faster to set the Touché to send those MIDI CCs as opposed to assigning host automation in Lié and then having to save tons of software Presets there.

With synths, I prefer host automation in Lié, but I do not use synths very frequently.

The other main reason why I do not use Lié is that I want to maintain compatibility with other people that do not have a Touché. My project would then not load on their systems.

I actually did a video about the Touché and Touché SE after talking to Expressive E a while ago and absolutely loving the concept:




*whom I work for, though that is besides the point here


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## jonathanparham (Jul 30, 2019)

thanks for showing it's interaction with Berlin strings


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## Jaap (Jul 30, 2019)

I have the Touché SE and loving it a lot and it changed my way of playing a lot. For my orchestral libraries I have just bound some of the most used controls (cc1, vibrato, cc11) to it and not using it with the Lié software.
For me it adds a lot more expressive playing when I use cc1 for example with the Touché instead of with the modwheel.

For my soft synths I use it for all kinds of stuff.


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## harmaes (Jul 30, 2019)

Thanks for your replies and sharing your experiences and knowledge. Good to read this. I will consider buying the Touche!


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## Jaap (Jul 30, 2019)

harmaes said:


> Thanks for your replies and sharing your experiences and knowledge. Good to read this. I will consider buying the Touche!



I doubted in the beginning a lot, but bought it from a shop here that allows returning it as it is not cheap. 
I was looking already for a while for a good alternative for the modwheel and tried various controllers, but with this one I had an instant connection. It is of course very subjective and if you consider buying it, maybe check it out at a local store if possible or buy it somewhere where you have the option to return it. But personally I highly recommend it and if you get one, keep us posted and nice that you started this topic as there is not much talk about it yet.


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## DerGeist (Jul 30, 2019)

I like my Touche and use it a lot. One thing to be aware of is that the controller springs back to centre which can be an issue depending on how you use expression. It works great to provide a combination of expression and vibrato. Moving side to side to add vibrato just feels very natural.

I do use Lie for the most part. Lie's speed mapping tools are great. The Arche instruments that Expressivee also sells are neat modeled instruments that make great use of Touche. With them you can use Touche to simulate bowing (made me realize how bad I am at knowing when to switch bow directions). It also works great to play at different bowing speeds. Give it a good tap in time with your playing to get some nice spicatto. Classy device.


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## harmaes (Jul 30, 2019)

Jaap said:


> I doubted in the beginning a lot, but bought it from a shop here that allows returning it as it is not cheap.
> I was looking already for a while for a good alternative for the modwheel and tried various controllers, but with this one I had an instant connection. It is of course very subjective and if you consider buying it, maybe check it out at a local store if possible or buy it somewhere where you have the option to return it. But personally I highly recommend it and if you get one, keep us posted and nice that you started this topic as there is not much talk about it yet.



I can order online with the ability to return. I'm interested in the SE version which doesn't have presets only one fixed set of CC values. In Kontakt and other instruments it's easy to map or midi learn these so that's not a problem. I'm currently controlling mostly 2 CC values with modwheel and an expression pedal. Having multiple to for instance control velocity, expression and vibrato of spitfire libraries could be interesting.
I'm also using TouchOSC with custom layouts I created to control different parameters together. 

Does Touche always reset the value of the 4 areas When moving left for instance does it start at 1 and fully left is 127? And if left is released back to center will the value drop to 0? For instance to control vibrato on off.


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## Novatlan Sound (Jul 31, 2019)

harmaes said:


> Does Touche always reset the value of the 4 areas When moving left for instance does it start at 1 and fully left is 127? And if left is released back to center will the value drop to 0? For instance to control vibrato on off.



Yes, it does. When you move left, the CC/control assigned to "left" will be 0 at centre, 127 full left. Same with right, top and down. Top and down can be used at the same time together with either left or right.

There's a nice feature to freeze the current values: When you press the encoder, it freezes everything at where it is currently, so you can let go of the touch plate.


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## robcs (Oct 12, 2020)

I just got a new Touche Expressive E SE. First day, and I'm already hopelessly confused. 

I was hoping to use it to control expression on EastWest QLSO and Hollywood Orchestra, but I can't figure out CC mapping. Has anyone got it working on something other than synth sounds?


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## jcrosby (Oct 12, 2020)

robcs said:


> I just got a new Touche Expressive E SE. First day, and I'm already hopelessly confused.
> 
> I was hoping to use it to control expression on EastWest QLSO and Hollywood Orchestra, but I can't figure out CC mapping. Has anyone got it working on something other than synth sounds?


I had to email them about this. Currently Touche SE doesn't allow you to re-assign the CC's it sends via USB. You need to use the plugin to host each instrument and set up mapping per instrument inside of it.


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## mgnoatto (Oct 12, 2020)

What are the standalone capabilities of Touché SE and Touché? - Help Center







expressivee.happyfox.com




you can do one configuration for standalone mode in touché SE


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## robcs (Oct 12, 2020)

Damn. Not the answer I was hoping for. I may just return it then :(


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## mgnoatto (Oct 12, 2020)

robcs said:


> Damn. Not the answer I was hoping for. I may just return it then :(


You can choose up to 4 different CC in the Lie app, save in the internal memory and then use the Touche SE as standalone. It has some learning curve though


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## robcs (Oct 12, 2020)

mgnoatto said:


> You can choose up to 4 different CC in the Lie app, save in the internal memory and then use the Touche SE as standalone. It has some learning curve though



How? All I could see listed as assignable parameters were a bunch of waveform and filter controls . I couldn’t see a way to assign CCs


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## mgnoatto (Oct 12, 2020)

robcs said:


> How? All I could see listed as assignable parameters were a bunch of waveform and filter controls . I couldn’t see a way to assign CCs








9. - MIDI Setup (Touché SE only) - Help Center







expressivee.happyfox.com


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## robcs (Oct 13, 2020)

mgnoatto said:


> 9. - MIDI Setup (Touché SE only) - Help Center
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you! I don’t know how I managed to miss that!


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 27, 2020)

Maybe I don't understand your problem correctly but have you checked:






Tutorial - Real Time MIDI CC Mapping with Blue Cat's Remote Control - Transform And Reassign MIDI CC in Your DAW







www.bluecataudio.com




or
Brian's very powerful TransMIDIfier: http://www.bewaryprods.com/software/products/TransMIDIfier/index.html


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## A3D2 (Feb 3, 2021)

@robcs Did you keep the Touche SE in the end? And are you happy with it? I'm also considering buying one as my master midi keyboard lacks a modwheel and pitchbend. I thought using it solely as a pitchbend and modwheel:do you think that is possible with the SE?


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## DerGeist (Feb 3, 2021)

The Touche (non-SE) as much as I love what it does has been nothing but problems for me. My computer finds it on USB (usually) but then it drops. Lie almost never finds it but may if I reflash it every time I use it but then occasionally. Great tool but it works about 1% of the time I need it.

In fairness to the company, I may have a faulty unit and have not sent it for repair but it basically never really worked consistently for me. When it worked i liked it a lot. It has an inch of dust on it at the moment.

This is my post honeymoon addendum to my previous comment.


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## Pier (Feb 3, 2021)

A3D2 said:


> @robcs Did you keep the Touche SE in the end? And are you happy with it? I'm also considering buying one as my master midi keyboard lacks a modwheel and pitchbend. I thought using it solely as a pitchbend and modwheel:do you think that is possible with the SE?


I just bought a Roli Lightpad mostly to use as an XYZ pad as you can configure a different CC for each axis.

The device can do a lot more than that though. It can used as 4 touch faders, drum pad, XYZ pad, etc.



It's on sale now on Amazon US for $100.


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## jonathanparham (Feb 3, 2021)

Pier said:


> I just bought a Roli Lightpad mostly to use as an XYZ pad as you can configure a different CC for each axis.
> 
> The device can do a lot more than that though. It can used as 4 touch faders, drum pad, XYZ pad, etc.
> 
> ...



I really wanted this to work exactly for what you are doing with Straylight and other things. Couldn't update my unit. Tried on two different machines. Contacted support; nothing. I returned it.


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## Pier (Feb 3, 2021)

jonathanparham said:


> I really wanted this to work exactly for what you are doing with Straylight and other things. Couldn't update my unit. Tried on two different machines. Contacted support; nothing. I returned it.


I haven't received it yet.

Why did you need to update the firmware?


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## jonathanparham (Feb 3, 2021)

Pier said:


> I haven't received it yet.
> 
> Why did you need to update the firmware?


Software prompted me when I installed it.


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## Pier (Feb 3, 2021)

jonathanparham said:


> Software prompted me when I installed it.


Crap...

I'll let you know how it goes once I receive it.


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## jonathanparham (Feb 3, 2021)

Pier said:


> Crap...
> 
> I'll let you know how it goes once I receive it.


nope. you'll be fine. When I didn't hear from support I just returned it for my money


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## A3D2 (Feb 4, 2021)

The Lightpad Block might be a good alternative. I'm still curious though for some user experiences with the Touché SE version? Anyone? Is the pitch bending smooth? Or too sensitive?


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## Pier (Feb 4, 2021)

I still haven't received my Lightpad, but I've been reading about coding custom apps for it.

Since Roli now owns Juce (basically the most used framework in the world of plugins) they seem to be super open to hackers and provide the Block SDK with an IDE for free.

Once I receive my Lightpad, if all goes smoothly I will definitely buy a second one just for hacking. Should be really easy developing custom touch UIs with it!


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## babylonwaves (Feb 4, 2021)

Pier said:


> Since Roli now owns Juce


PACE brought Juce last year. Roli didn't do anything good with it really.


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## Pier (Feb 4, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


> PACE brought Juce last year. Roli didn't do anything good with it really.


Thanks didn't know that.

iLok is really one of the worst pieces of software I've used. Maybe PACE wants to modernize its stack and that's why they bought it?









Why should you care that ROLI sold JUCE to PACE?


Seaboard creator ROLI sells the app development framework used to build Korg Gadget to PACE, the makers of iLok.




www.musictech.net





Jules remains at Roli though.


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## Pier (Feb 6, 2021)

So the Roli Lightpad was a total failure... I'm returning it.






My experience with the Roli Lightpad


So I bought a Roli Lightpad to use as an XYZ pad for controlling VIs. It was on sale on Amazon US for $100 and, although it was the old model, it seemed like a good deal. TL;DR: It was a pain to set up and I'm returning it because the resolution of pressure surface is really bad. Got it today...




vi-control.net


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## jonathanparham (Feb 6, 2021)

Pier said:


> So the Roli Lightpad was a total failure... I'm returning it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok I don't feel so bad lol. did you get it working? I tried on TWO machines


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## Pier (Feb 6, 2021)

jonathanparham said:


> Ok I don't feel so bad lol. did you get it working? I tried on TWO machines


It was a pain but I got it working. Then it turns out the resolution of the touch surface is really low.


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## Pier (Feb 6, 2021)

I've been watching some Touch SE videos and it looks amazing.

Anyone here is happy with it?

The comments on Amazon are discouraging but maybe is that only angry people write reviews.


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## A3D2 (Feb 7, 2021)

Pier said:


> I've been watching some Touch SE videos and it looks amazing.
> 
> Anyone here is happy with it?
> 
> The comments on Amazon are discouraging but maybe is that only angry people write reviews.


I'm interested for some honest user experiences of the Touche SE as well... It seems online I either come across really happy users or really disappointed ones . Would be nice to hear some more balanced point of views


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## Bakhtin (Feb 7, 2021)

FWIW I'm still learning how to set it up and and use the Touche SE but last night I got Spitfire Chamber Strings working wonderfully - dynamics, expression and vibrato all at once via the Touche. The key I think is that you are always using pressure, more pressure or less pressure, and this just works better/more musically than sliders. If you like crafting swells and arcs for strings this is quite fantastic.

Of course much of this depends on the library ...

My 2 cents


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## robcs (Feb 7, 2021)

A3D2 said:


> @robcs Did you keep the Touche SE in the end? And are you happy with it? I'm also considering buying one as my master midi keyboard lacks a modwheel and pitchbend. I thought using it solely as a pitchbend and modwheel:do you think that is possible with the SE?


I returned it within a week. I just couldn’t get the level of control I wanted for the libraries I use. It may work better with others, but it wasn’t for me.


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## A3D2 (Feb 8, 2021)

robcs said:


> I returned it within a week. I just couldn’t get the level of control I wanted for the libraries I use. It may work better with others, but it wasn’t for me.


thanks for sharing your experience! Good to know


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## Rudianos (Jul 9, 2021)

Loving my Touche for Orchestral - Love it For Winds - Guitars - Solo Strings ... very nice level of control. Can be subtle or extreme. The tactile connection makes it very rewarding - and while I will never play a real cello it feels like I am in harmony with a virtual one.


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## A3D2 (Jul 14, 2021)

I bought a Touché SE in the end and I must say that I really like it. It has a learning curve to it. You definitely need to tweak both the hardware and software settings to your liking as you can easily overdo your velocity if things are not adjusted to the amount of pressure you like to use. But once you've found the 'magic setting' that fits the way you naturally tend to depress the Touché, it really opens up a wide palette of uses.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Jul 16, 2021)

I'm also considering the Touché SE. But recently I discovered the MusiKraken for tablets and phones. Also a _very_ surprising versatile controller for the price! Check their videos on YT. Did not try it yet though.


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## Laurelien (Sep 28, 2021)

Bakhtin said:


> FWIW I'm still learning how to set it up and and use the Touche SE but last night I got Spitfire Chamber Strings working wonderfully - dynamics, expression and vibrato all at once via the Touche. The key I think is that you are always using pressure, more pressure or less pressure, and this just works better/more musically than sliders. If you like crafting swells and arcs for strings this is quite fantastic.
> 
> Of course much of this depends on the library ...
> 
> My 2 cents


This is helpful as I’m a petite pianist and can’t reach my mod wheel easily, need an expression controller that fits on the keyboard (some “daw controller“ like icon and ssl are overkill for the three faders I want. This looks better and and I use Spitfire, so …perfect, thanks!!


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Sep 28, 2021)

One should not forget that the LEAP Motion controller when used with GECO MIDI gives you all these real degrees of freedom (ex. tilt left/right is one DoF, not two) :





For each hand you get all of these 10 movements, each with two "degrees of freedom" in Touché's "parlance" :

Up & Down Position: distance from the Leap Motion Controller (Y-axis)
Up & Down Movement: distance from when your hand was first seen (Y-axis)
Left & Right Position: distance from the Leap Motion Controller (X-axis)
Left & Right Movement: distance from when your hand was first seen (X-axis)
Back & Forth Position: distance from the Leap Motion Controller (Z-axis)
Back & Forth Movement: distance from when your hand was first seen (Z-axis)
Pitch Inclination of your hand's palm
Roll Inclination of your hand's palm
Yaw Direction of your hand's palm
Presence of your hand (on/off)









GECO - User manual


GECO is one of the easiest and most powerful solutions to interact with MIDI, OSC and CopperLan through hand gestures. GECO fully leverages the power of the Leap Motion Controller and detects tiniest little movements of your hands. All that's left is for you to be creative and perform.



uwyn.com












Digital worlds that feel human | Ultraleap


Our world-leading hand tracking and haptics powers intuitive, touchless gesture control in AR/VR, interactive kiosks, digital out-of-home and automotive.




www.ultraleap.com


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## Windbag (Dec 8, 2022)

Ok I'm gonna zombie thread here in lieu of starting a new one (for now) - I had a difficult time finding really useful information about this thing and wanted to get first impressions out.

I've had a couple days to play around with a black-fridayed Touché SE and have managed to answer all of my questions.

Starting in order of importance:

1. It feels great
2. It's very accurate and fast
3. It's big. Too big (I with it were about 2/3 the size, but that has more to do with fitting it into the workstation somewhere)
4. for the purposes of driving VIs, the software is basically unnecessary (and I'd recommend skipping it)

Let me get one thing out of the way first. This is a 4 axis controller. There is a lot of waxing poetic about the unique and intuitive touch expressive connectionyaddayadda and none of the videos or reviews I found did a very good job stating in plain english what you're actually controlling, so here it is:

The large ovaloid ...paddle (i hesitate to call it a touch surface because it is _not_ touch sensitive in the capacitive sense) moves in 2 axes that the device is able to measure: sideways (left to right) and vertically like a button (closer to and further from the surface upon which it sits - and this movement is measured in 2 places, front and back). I would describe these as a X and Z axes, with no movement on the Y axis (along the length of the paddle), and no rotation - this is translational motion only. As you manipulate the paddle, there are 4 measurements that output MIDI values:

CC18 Left - move the entire paddle from rest (center) to your left
CC19 Right - as above, opposite side. SEPARATE 0-127 VALUE
CC16 Near Depression - press the near side of the paddle downward into the table
CC17 Far Depression - press the FAR side toward the table

...and those last two can be done independently or together if you press the whole surface down, but the values are separate and do not appear to have any combined/summed value you can grab


*HARDWARE: *

All of these axes of movement are in elastic suspension - the paddle returns to its resting position smoothly and with force proportional to its deviation from top/center. On the side-to-side (x) axis, this results in a completely smooth transition across the center with no stop, detent or indeed any dead band in the values output. It is immediately responsive with no perceptible lag, seems to have very high temporal resolution, and (so far) is doing a remarkably good job returning to zero in all 4 measurements despite no noticeable "take-up" before values begin to change, suggesting a surprisingly tight tolerance. It is also utterly silent, with no friction evident anywhere (I assume the motion is either optically or magnetically tracked)

The main paddle surface is actually held in place (firmly) by magnets acting on a steel plate underneath the plastic (on the SE) top surface that you touch...removing it reveals 2 things:

• a pink rubbery tube that is responsible for half of the vertical spring force (the other is attached to a bayonet cover on the bottom of the unit) ...a quick visit to Expressive E's site shows these to be interchangeable with what I presume to be varyingly stiff alternatives

• a slider that mechanically adjusts the tension of the side-to-side movement. Difficult to see how this works but it is quite effective; backing it off loosens the tension enough that nudging the paddle to one side results in it oscillating laterally for more than 10 seconds before settling. Using this axis for pitch, I'm finding the higher resistance to be useful and have left it pretty firm (it shipped maxed out)


The entire unit is nicely put together with enough heft to indicate metal framework, matte finished hard plastics without rubbery coating or a single unintensional-looking seam anywhere on it, and effective rubber skid strips on the bottom that hold it in place on my glass desk surface very firmly.

...and I should note the knob (standard endless rotary encoder), 2 tactile buttons (oil-can ticka ticka switches) and an arc of 4 RGB leds behind molded-in light pipes that disappear into the surrounding matte plastic and show absolutely no bleed from neighboring lights (impressive). These bits have turned out to be almost completely inconsequential to my experience thusfar, but the industrial design work is top notch.


*SOFTWARE (sorta)*

Figuring I should start by configuring the output channels, I went looking for software and found my first annoyances. First, you must register the product in order to download the Líe software that purports to configure the thing, meaning you must create an account and use an activation code (physically printed on a card inside the box) to then download 771Mb of combined package (which was not fast).

I will have to admit at this point that my interest is almost exclusively in the hardware, and find the bundling of bespoke synthesizers to complicate the value proposition a bit. I already have the VIs I want this physical control over, and I would have much preferred a simple, freely-available config utility that I didn't have to volunteer my contact info to get, particularly since buying this thing with a return policy is the only way I have to try it out at all.

Anyway some eye-rolling later I come to find out that the software is meant to _host_ the instruments you wish to control with it. For example, in Logic, instead of calling up Kontakt and selecting LASS3, I am meant to call up Líe, load kontakt (and LASS) _within Líe_, and use their UI to set up mapping of the 4 parameters (for which they give you 8 slots, curiously)...and Líe's initial scan didn't find any of my SWAM instruments.

(Bailing on the software)
This was the point I decided to ditch it, seeing that Logic was already reporting value changes on CC16-19 (as it had before installing anything - so it appears to be MIDI class compliant). Thus, tweaking VIs' channel assignments directly and making use of Logic's immensely useful MIDI effects to commandeer anything else (mostly changing right to Pitch Up and Left to Pitch Down), I was able to configure everything I wanted to try fairly quickly - their choice of CC16-19 seems to create minimal conflict.


*IN USE:*

X-axis: Using left/right axes for pitch control is fantastic. It allows exactly the kind of vibrato performance I was hoping to get independently of the Roli blocks I've been using...It oscillates readily, and zeros reliably. I am able to skew sharp or flat pretty easily, and even limit the output to pitch up only for use with a guitar VI, since the left and right directions are actually separate CC's (i assigned both to pitch up)

Z-axis: Swell-type controls are great, too; assigning the Near pressure CC to expression and Far pressure to vibrato, I am able to control dynamics in LASS 3 in a tantalizingly natural way. With the elastomeric spring force, these controls give a meaningful amount of resistance that increases the closer you get to max value, and instantly return to 0 merely by letting up (not unlike a gas pedal). This is what I've had difficulty getting from AfterTouch/channel pressure (given the resets between keypresses), or a Expression pedal/modwheel that must be consciously rolled back to zero. Having the 2 values "linked" is nice too...vibrato naturally trends with expression as I press the paddle down, and it's only when I really think about it that I am able to change the front or back value independently. It really is an odd and unique means of commanding expressive value and so far I really like it

Crosstalk: Someone had mentioned (elsewhere) that incidental sideways input while pressing downward would be a problem, and with such sensitive measurement, I can see how this would indeed be challenging to avoid. Interestingly enough, it hasn't caused me any issues yet, simply because I'm finding that either one axis or the other is useful for a particular VI, and have yet to find any situations where I'm wanting both


*PHYSICAL INTEGRATION: *

In some ways I wanted to like this thing less because...it's not easy to place. It's almost as deep (front to back) as my 88 keyboard and several times as thick (top to bottom) the Roli blocks it's currently sitting next to...making it too large to sit on the rear deck above the 88 keys (where the Rolis are going) and FAR to large to share any space on my qwerty keyboard/trackpad tray. I can only see it living to the extreme left of my SL88, which (conveniently for this) uses sticks on the rear deck instead of pitch and mod wheels that would normally go there. Even then, it's quite a bit deeper than the keys and is throwing a bit of a wrench into a nearly-completed desk design that I'm dying to build for the sake of my poor back. I wish it were half the size, and that the knob and buttons were at the back in favor of the paddle (the whole point of the thing) being front and center


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## Windbag (Dec 8, 2022)

Takaways:

Is it worth it? I'm leaning toward yes mostly for lack of any real alternative. I'm a big fan of tactile interaction with software instruments and have come to believe that effective control implementation makes the difference between performance and programming. These guys are right up my alley in terms of furthering the possibilities therein and have put forth a very nice bit of R&D and industrial design.

In light of my experience with Roli, there is a lot to be said for _note-independent_ control offered here...it allows for expression and phrasing continuity that I cannot seem to manage with aftertouch, unsprung pedals, or the problematic pitch stick in my SL88...and that might be crux of it right there. If I still had my old Nord, and its fantastic, underrated single-spring wooden pitch stick...I'm not sure the Touché would add enough capability for me to literally make a hole for. With that long gone, however, this looks to be the only standalone alternative I've yet come across (bettering it in several ways). When it comes down to it, the effectiveness as a vibrato performance tool may be enough to justify the price, with the super responsive pressure controls that seem to span AT and drum pad functionality being icing.

I may try the Spacemouse/OSCulator combo detailed in another thread here for the sake of comparison, but that's looking an awful lot like abandonware and I would hesitate to become at all reliant on it.


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## Tusker (Dec 8, 2022)

I agree that it’s very good for some things and not so good for others. Which is why we see so many different opinions. I actually prefer sliders for orchestral libraries but I love Touche for soft synths. To each their own. 

In the goofy little example below, the front shifting is controlling breath pressure, the rear shifting is controlling vibrato, the left is controlling growl and the right is controlling a static flanger which is emphasizing higher harmonics. The instrument is Chet Singer’s beautiful Dannenberg Cornet in Reaktor but I’ve managed to debase it into something quite silly...


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## CGR (Dec 8, 2022)

Windbag said:


> Takaways:
> 
> Is it worth it? I'm leaning toward yes mostly for lack of any real alternative. I'm a big fan of tactile interaction with software instruments and have come to believe that effective control implementation makes the difference between performance and programming. These guys are right up my alley in terms of furthering the possibilities therein and have put forth a very nice bit of R&D and industrial design.
> 
> ...


That was a great read - thanks for posting. I've had a Touché SE for a few years and only recently started exploring its abilities again. Really glad to have one in the kit bag. My DAW is Logic Pro and after a cleanup one day of redundant VST components from plugin and instrument installers, I later on discovered that La Cie wasn't loading Kontakt anymore. Turns out it needs the VST and not the AU component, but a simple re-install of Kontakt sorted that out.


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## Rudianos (Dec 8, 2022)

Good stuff here. This was my first controller that I got when I was first starting off and I was very rookie-ish in my understanding of what was available....

I'm proudly having it though on my table. It's so nice to have a connection to the instrument versus a little knob.

Sometimes the pitch bend does not snap back to zero. With some VSTs and it's also easy to trigger the pitch bend inadvertently going forwards and backwards... So I don't use it for that!

I use it for dynamics and vibrato. 

It's also not supported very well with Synchron player it crashes it. Crashes the piano app too for some reason... 

And when you log on to the internet and if that was recently being used then it's sucks that cc channel all the way down to zero.

So working within the quirks of it I really enjoy having it for lyrical human playing. I think next I'll try a wind controller to see if that improves anything.

Does anyone else have similar problems to me? Should I send it in for repair


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## Windbag (Dec 8, 2022)

Tusker said:


> I actually prefer sliders for orchestral libraries but I love Touche for soft synths. To each their own.


I can see this for anything I want to stay put, but the spring force really changes the interaction for me - instruments are silent unless I put effort in, which seems reasonably authentic.


So is the consensus that everyone's got this to the left of their primary keys? Or does it get randomly plopped on the desk somewhere for occasional use (on top of a hard cover book ).


And am I correct in my estimation that this is fairly unique amongst standalone controllers? My search for tactile, sprung controllers has led to: 

• Touché (this)
• Monogram CC's orbiter module, which appears to have a 4-way D-pad in the middle that can be configured for MIDI output but I'm fuzzy on details - and it's backordered
• SpaceMouse + OSCulator? (abandonware?)

...and a few pitch-bendable keybeds, namely the Lumi and forthcoming Osmose

Interested in any others I've missed.



Rudianos said:


> So working within the quirks of it I really enjoy having it for lyrical human playing. I think next I'll try a wind controller to see if that improves anything.


Highly recommend. It's mostly the instruments I already use breath control for that triggered the need for a really solid vibrato input method. I've been using Roli which is fantastic for vibrato but difficult for velocity, which sometime matters. The Touché's main job for me would be standing in for Roli pitch control while I play regular keys


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## soPpypoPsy (Dec 9, 2022)

Touché SE is a favorite of mine.

The most important advantage of this controller is that when you press it, the force to return works. I use it as a replacement for the breath controller.
It works well with the Audio Modeling SWAM Woodwinds/Brass series of physical modeling instruments, but requires some customization.

Purchase the accessory cylinder and replace it with the softest one (white) to allow for more subtle vibrato expression with Expression.
You may also want to loosen the lock on the board a bit.
In addition to mapping on the software side, it is necessary to pursue comfortable settings on the hardware side.

The front and rear of the Touché can be controlled simultaneously, but the left and right mechanisms are independent, so the parameters suitable for assignment are naturally limited.
(Off topic, but if the upcoming Audio Modeling SWAM Harmonica has a blowing/aspirating technique, the Touché will be a powerful help. It might also be suitable for bellows instruments such as accordions, etc.)

There is no need to force assignment of parameters that are not reasonable.
I think it is important to set up Touché in combination with other MPE controllers so that they can compensate for each other's weaknesses and take advantage of only their strengths, and I use Touché, Seaboard, and Neova at the same time.


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## Tusker (Dec 9, 2022)

soPpypoPsy said:


> I think it is important to set up Touché in combination with other MPE controllers so that they can compensate for each other's weaknesses and take advantage of only their strengths, and I use Touché, Seaboard, and Neova at the same time.


Indeed, we can assemble our own performance environment according to our tastes. I sometimes use a breath controller and it shares the work with Touche. Yes, Windbag, in my setup Touche is always a left hand controller.


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## Tusker (Dec 9, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Does anyone else have similar problems to me? Should I send it in for repair


_TL/DR:_ I have experienced very low levels of midi cc values sent out in the front and rear shiftings, even when they are not touched.

_Long version:_ I have not experienced this on the side shiftings. I found this out when a friend of mine Maurizio wrote this nifty piece of software which sends note-ons when touché is depressed.

You could select notes on a keyboard and repeatedly trigger them by tapping on touché. Alternatively you could do this with a filter in a synth, but this method could also be used to retrigger samples easily. We noticed that touché is designed to bounce around and provides things like secondary note-ons if you set the filters too wide. I captured the data on Midi Monitor and did a little analysis to decide where to set the input filters on his software.

I concluded it's a design compromise to make sure touché is a dynamic system and that it doesn't have dead spots. If I want a clean/static controller, there are other tools available, but they are less organic. Or I can tighten touché using the slider, but I will lose some expression.


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## Windbag (Dec 9, 2022)

Tusker said:


> I have experienced very low levels of midi cc values sent out in the front and rear shiftings, even when they are not touched.


In my 5 whole minutes of feeling around Líe, I had interpreted this button as a 0 "reset," 






....but trying it just now, it must only be adjusting output curve/endpoints for the hosted plugin rather than recalibrating the resting position of the touch-plate....the UI doesn't indicate any change.



Rudianos said:


> Sometimes the pitch bend does not snap back to zero.


I do have some concern for this thing's longevity - elastomers tend to eventually take a set when repeatedly deformed and I suspect it's a good thing they've made the cylinders replaceable (particularly the ones that are always being squished the same downward direction....presumably they estimated that balanced use of the sideways axis would prevent it from skewing to one side over time). 

If I do end up building a spot into my desk for this guy, I'll probably shotgun order a set or two of the replacements. My concern for longevity extends to these smaller companies (like Roli, which has alarmed us once already)


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## Lunatique (Dec 14, 2022)

I got mine recently and have been practicing with it a lot. I have it set like this for brass/woodwinds:

Down = dynamics
Up = growl
Left = vibrato intensity
right = flutter tongue

For strings, I haven't figured out what else I could map up and left to, so I only have down and right mapped currently. 

I really like how natural and expressive it feels. I think I actually prefer it to my BC2 since I don't get dizzy from using it and don't have to make silly head movements. 

I ordered a LeapMotion a few days ago, and I'm curious if I'll prefer that over the Touche SE.


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