# How to recreate StaffPad hall on desktop?



## Jorgakis (Aug 15, 2021)

It's strange how great Berlin Strings sound within Staffpad, and I suppose it has to do with the reverb?

I'd like to create a similar sound on my main system, but I don't know how. 

Also did anyone try Berlin Strings on staffpad and on a computer? I think there is a different legato on the staffpad version, which might also contribute to the unique sound...


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## MadLad (Aug 15, 2021)

Yeah, I'd like to know, too. I've tried so many different reverb settings and different reverbs (H-Reverb, Reaper Stock Reverb, EastWest Spaces 2) and it never comes close to what it sounds like on Staffpad. 

Also, I found that there has to be something else to this playback engine, since I found that dry exported stems sound different from dry playback in Staffpad.


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## Jett Hitt (Aug 15, 2021)

I don’t know what the wizardry is, but I can’t begin to make Berlin Strings sound as good in my DAW. Also, I know lots of people prefer to export dry and add their own reverb, but I can’t ever make this approach sound better than what comes out of StaffPad. I have pretty much decided to just live with what StaffPad gives me.


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## Montisquirrel (Aug 15, 2021)

The Reverb is modelled on the Bricasti M7, so maybe LiquidSonics 7th Heaven might be an option

check this thread:






Reverb and other Fx for matching StaffPad stems with additional non-StaffPad instruments inside the DAW


I just watched a StaffPad tutorial and they said that the StaffPad reverb is "modelled on the famous Bricasti M7". This made me thinking of buying LiquidSonics 7th Heaven, which is on sale right now. What kind of tipps and tricks do you have for matching non-StaffPad instruments with StaffPad...




vi-control.net





But this is not the only reason why Berlin Strings sound so good in StaffPad and it is difficult to recreate it in the DAW with the Kontakt version. Berlin Strings in StaffPad and in KOntakt share the same sample content, but have a different engine, so there is more "magic stuff" involed than reverb.


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## MadLad (Aug 15, 2021)

Jett Hitt said:


> I don’t know what the wizardry is, but I can’t begin to make Berlin Strings sound as good in my DAW. Also, I know lots of people prefer to export dry and add their own reverb, but I can’t ever make this approach sound better than what comes out of StaffPad. I have pretty much decided to just live with what StaffPad gives me.


So, do you export the instruments with reverb and then do everything else in a DAW? I'm currently working on a project where I exported everything dry and try to mix everything from the ground up. The results aren't great and I'm considering just exporting the stems with reverb and mixing the rest in Reaper. Would you recommend this approach?


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## Karmand (Aug 15, 2021)

I'm experimenting, so far with the reverb is nice. I also export MIDI and change up some instruments to my liking. Yea, the reverb in Staffpad is great. But there are nice verbs in DAW-land.

Not so sure about exporting dry - since I'd rather use MIDI and be able to change somethings.
With exception for a few percussion things I like from CinePerc I am more apt to use MIDI.

But, like I said I'm experimenting too.


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## Jett Hitt (Aug 15, 2021)

MadLad said:


> So, do you export the instruments with reverb and then do everything else in a DAW? I'm currently working on a project where I exported everything dry and try to mix everything from the ground up. The results aren't great and I'm considering just exporting the stems with reverb and mixing the rest in Reaper. Would you recommend this approach?


Honestly, I haven't exported stems from StaffPad in a while. I have just been exporting wav files. I am not saying that I won't do stems again at some point in the near future, but for now, wav files are sufficient. It is a bit tricky with the bass, specifically pizzicato. What sounds good on my iPad is rather thunderous once it comes over my monitors. (Pizz seems to be a problem in general in StaffPad. Seems like it is too loud or you can't hear it. No happy medium.) 

I have heard some really nice mixes done with StaffPad files from @Joël Dollié. It can be done, but you probably need to know more about mixing than I do.


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## Jett Hitt (Aug 15, 2021)

Above @Montisquirrel mentions Bricasti M7, so it really might be worth trying Seventh Heaven. I have tried several, but somehow the baked in reverb in StaffPad always sounds better. DWH sure knew what he was doing.


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## rsg22 (Aug 15, 2021)

I think I'm running into some of this. Trying to mix a Staffpad string quartet (Berlin first chairs, solo'd and exported each part) in Logic. Controls in Staffpad are too fiddly. In Logic: subtle compression, some subtractive EQ (there's a specific freq range in the solo cello which is quite "tubby"), minimal volume automation, a little saturation, etc. Sometimes I feel like my ears are playing tricks on me or things don't sound quite the same once exported, can't put my finger on it.



MadLad said:


> ...
> Also, I found that there has to be something else to this playback engine, since I found that dry exported stems sound different from dry playback in Staffpad.


This is very interesting - mind elaborating on what differences you're hearing? Are you hearing differences in wet exported stems VS wet playback in Staffpad as well? How about differences in Staffpad playback VS exporting the entire mix (no stems)?

Sorry for all the questions - just trying to figure out how to get the best results here...


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## MadLad (Aug 15, 2021)

Jett Hitt said:


> Honestly, I haven't exported stems from StaffPad in a while. I have just been exporting wav files. I am not saying that I won't do stems again at some point in the near future, but for now, wav files are sufficient. It is a bit tricky with the bass, specifically pizzicato. What sounds good on my iPad is rather thunderous once it comes over my monitors. (Pizz seems to be a problem in general in StaffPad. Seems like it is too loud or you can't hear it. No happy medium.)
> 
> I have heard some really nice mixes done with StaffPad files from @Joël Dollié. It can be done, but you probably need to know more about mixing than I do.


I guess if you already mix it as best as you can inside staffpad (with the volume automation) the wav file should be sufficient. That way you also solve the pizzicato problem. Though, I can give you the advice to use both Cinestrings and Berlin Strings because their mf and mp pizzicati have a different volume if you want more dynamic layers.

I'll still try stems with the reverb, too. If it sounds good then I won't have to bother with this convoluted setup I have in my DAW. I recently was comissioned to write music for a trailer and the experience with my DAW was kind of frustrating since I can't get it to sound it as good as Staffpad's playback. But I also can't just give the client an unedited Staffpad wav file, so I guess I'll have to find a middle-ground between doing as much as possible in Staffpad and then just add the final touches in Reaper.


rsg22 said:


> This is very interesting - mind elaborating on what differences you're hearing? Are you hearing differences in wet exported stems VS wet playback in Staffpad as well? How about differences in Staffpad playback VS exporting the entire mix (no stems)?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions - just trying to figure out how to get the best results here...


I can't describe it, actually. What I found was that if I listen to the dry mix in Staffpad over and over again versus listening to the exported stems in Reaper, my ears will get tired much faster from the exported stems. The sound seems "harder" and sometimes I have the feeling there's frequency build-up in some parts that are not there in Staffpad. Maybe I'm just imagining things, though.

EDIT: Just tried it again. I listened to two different arrangements of my trailer music. One is the dry exported stems version that I mixed and mastered in Reaper for weeks. It's much tamer, I took out many harsh and too loud parts and my ears still start to lose focus after listening two or three times to that version. The other version is the unedited Staffpad mock-up with reverb and everything. It has a much too loud beginning with just brass and a horrible arrangement where trumpets and violins play the same melody in octaves far too often. Yet, even though it is too loud, too harsh, poorly arranged in parts, Staffpad's playback never tires my ears. I could listen to it ten times in a row and I'd still be fine (doing this all with bose headphones, btw.). So, maybe I'm crazy but there must be more to Staffpad's playback than just a good reverb.


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## Jett Hitt (Aug 15, 2021)

MadLad said:


> Though, I can give you the advice to use both Cinestrings and Berlin Strings because their mf and mp pizzicati have a different volume if you want more dynamic layers.



Wow, thanks for that. I have CineStrings, and I have never used it enough to even consider that the pizz might be different.



MadLad said:


> EDIT: Just tried it again. I listened to two different arrangements of my trailer music. One is the dry exported stems version that I mixed and mastered in Reaper for weeks. It's much tamer, I took out many harsh and too loud parts and my ears still start to lose focus after listening two or three times to that version. The other version is the unedited Staffpad mock-up with reverb and everything. It has a much too loud beginning with just brass and a horrible arrangement where trumpets and violins play the same melody in octaves far too often. Yet, even though it is too loud, too harsh, poorly arranged in parts, Staffpad's playback never tires my ears. I could listen to it ten times in a row and I'd still be fine (doing this all with bose headphones, btw.). So, maybe I'm crazy but there must be more to Staffpad's playback than just a good reverb.


Here is the thing, if you're tired from listening to the DAW version, it is likely your listeners will be too. I'd do a blind test with a few folks and see which gets their vote. Just my two cents.


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## Jorgakis (Aug 16, 2021)

Happy to hear you people having the similar thoughts on the staffpad sound.

I've tried some Lexicon Random Hall (which I had forgotten I actually owned) and I got a little closer to the m7 sound I guess. But it will need some further testing and unfortunately some more mixing knowledge...:D
Also downloaded the 7th heaven trial, maybe it will do some...

But it's still strange that the samples also sound different, how can it be if it's actually the same library files like on the DAW versions? Maybe AI? Cyborgs?


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## Karmand (Aug 16, 2021)

Also, when I get a chance and 50 bucks I'm going to try: https://valhalladsp.com/shop/reverb/valhalla-room/
the tails on this verb and the early-late acoustic spacial energy is pro for only 50
I'll be trying it with SF Chamber Strings/CineBrass/Winds/Perc on Staffpad


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## Markrs (Aug 16, 2021)

Jorgakis said:


> Happy to hear you people having the similar thoughts on the staffpad sound.
> 
> I've tried some Lexicon Random Hall (which I had forgotten I actually owned) and I got a little closer to the m7 sound I guess. But it will need some further testing and unfortunately some more mixing knowledge...:D
> Also downloaded the 7th heaven trial, maybe it will do some...
> ...


If it is any help you can get the M7 and Lexicon 480L IRs online

You can get the Bricasti M7 IRs






Samplicity's Bricasti M7 Impulse Response Library v1.1 - Samplicity


Samplicity has created a new and FREE Impulse Response Library, based on the immensely popular and highly acclaimed Bricasti M7 reverb unit.



web.archive.org





If you want the Lexicon 480 you can get that from:









Download GN’s Personal Lexicon 480L IR’s | Housecall FM






www.housecallfm.com


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## MadLad (Aug 17, 2021)

rsg22 said:


> This is very interesting - mind elaborating on what differences you're hearing? Are you hearing differences in wet exported stems VS wet playback in Staffpad as well? How about differences in Staffpad playback VS exporting the entire mix (no stems)?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions - just trying to figure out how to get the best results here...


I also tried the same with exported stems with reverb today. Same result. I can do what I want but the stems really start to grate on your ears. The actual exported .wav file of the piece doesn't hurt my ears although the mixing is all over the place. What's strange, too is that the stems all have sound glitches in some places. They can all be heard when you solo the instruments which further makes them unpleasant to listen to. For example, the Berlin Strings first violin in forte or fortissimo sometimes stutters on long sustained notes and it sometimes can even be heard through a tutti passage.

I really gotta say, right now, exporting stems is kind of useless because the mix will always sound hard on your ears no matter what I do. The exported .wav file on the other hand is just fine which means I will be mixing everything in Staffpad despite the uncomfortable volume automation with the pen and then export the wav file just to master the piece.


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## Gabriel2013 (Aug 17, 2021)

MadLad said:


> I also tried the same with exported stems with reverb today. Same result. I can do what I want but the stems really start to grate on your ears. The actual exported .wav file of the piece doesn't hurt my ears although the mixing is all over the place. What's strange, too is that the stems all have sound glitches in some places. They can all be heard when you solo the instruments which further makes them unpleasant to listen to. For example, the Berlin Strings first violin in forte or fortissimo sometimes stutters on long sustained notes and it sometimes can even be heard through a tutti passage.
> 
> I really gotta say, right now, exporting stems is kind of useless because the mix will always sound hard on your ears no matter what I do. The exported .wav file on the other hand is just fine which means I will be mixing everything in Staffpad despite the uncomfortable volume automation with the pen and then export the wav file just to master the piece


Hi MadLad, do you compress in settings menu?
I think the algorithm is sweetening the sound a bit.

Probably if you replicate that in your DAW (compressing and EQing), the sound will get similar.
Just a thought anyway.

g


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## MadLad (Aug 17, 2021)

Gabriel2013 said:


> Hi MadLad, do you compress in settings menu?
> I think the algorithm is sweetening the sound a bit.
> 
> Probably if you replicate that in your DAW (compressing and EQing), the sound will get similar.
> ...


I'm not compressing when exporting but I do compress and EQ in Reaper but compressing usually tends to make it worse even if it's just slight compression. There's definitely a difference between the playback and exported stems. I'm now convinced of that


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## Martin S (Aug 17, 2021)

Just a thought… If I recall correctly, @dcoscina mentioned in a thread a while ago, that David W. Hearn had recommended to use a tiny bit of compression in StaffPad when exporting stems, but I might be wrong..Can’t find the thread now. However, when I export stems I have the ’Dynamics’ slider set to maybe 1-2 %, and the imported stems in Logic sounds just like the StaffPad playback, to me at least..


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## MadLad (Aug 17, 2021)

Well I can try that. Do you mean setting the compression to 1-2% ?


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## Martin S (Aug 17, 2021)

Yes, the dynamic compression. Although I’m unsure whether you’ll hear a difference; I haven’t tried to export without compression yet..


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## dcoscina (Aug 17, 2021)

Martin S said:


> Just a thought… If I recall correctly, @dcoscina mentioned in a thread a while ago, that David W. Hearn had recommended to use a tiny bit of compression in StaffPad when exporting stems, but I might be wrong..Can’t find the thread now. However, when I export stems I have the ’Dynamics’ slider set to maybe 1-2 %, and the imported stems in Logic sounds just like the StaffPad playback, to me at least..


David did indicate for the Berlin expansions especially to add some of that built in compression because they have a larger dynamic range in their samples than the other developer expansions.


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## rsg22 (Aug 17, 2021)

MadLad said:


> ... What's strange, too is that the stems all have sound glitches in some places. They can all be heard when you solo the instruments which further makes them unpleasant to listen to. For example, the Berlin Strings first violin in forte or fortissimo sometimes stutters on long sustained notes and it sometimes can even be heard through a tutti passage.



I've had occasional pops and clicks from Staffpad, had to manually fix them in Logic. I don't recall if the full export had them as well. For me, they had a tendency to happen during very abrupt/aggressive crescendos or decrescendos - e.g. going from f > p over only a beat or two. Sounds a little different than what you're running into.

This would be a pain but I wonder what would happen in your case if, instead of using the export stem feature, you manually solo'd the parts for each stem and did a full export (e.g. solo all of violin I/II, viola, cello, bass for the strings stem, do a full export, and so on for each orchestral section).



MadLad said:


> ... The exported .wav file on the other hand is just fine which means I will be mixing everything in Staffpad despite the uncomfortable volume automation with the pen and then export the wav file just to master the piece.


Probably going to attempt this as well, and compare results with the DAW mix, though it won't quite be apples-to-apples.


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