# Does anyone love Phaseplant, or is it just me? And anyone else think Reaktor is a thing of the past?



## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

I was so impressed by the amount of helpful answers I received yesterday regarding Arturia Pigments 3.0 that I bought it. So thanks. I am about to write my first patch....

And today's ramble is:-

Until now I have been an avid creator of Reaktor instruments (see the User Lib for many examples under my real name Nick Dwyer) and even dabbled in the highly trained world of KSP in Kontakt (see https://flintpope.net/kontakt/). I gave up the latter due to lack of said training and the former because, frankly, Reaktor seems to have been allowed to ossify by NI; it hasn't moved on at all since the, in my book, fairly poor attempt at going modular. The latter is fine if you can afford the very expensive real world Eurorack sound wranglers but never has the same pzzazz in digital form. I'd rather have something that I can tweak out of the box rather than figure out a load of connections that often produce a basic synth sound that sounds like every other basic synth sound. Give me complex sample-based virtual instruments any day.

Which brings me to Phaseplant. While not only being a fine sample morpher it is of course a fabulous synth and its killer weapons Multipass and Snapheap make it the most fun thing since you know what. The drag and drop interface and the "modulate almost anything anywhere in the sound-chain" have proven a liberation for me after the somewhat plodding steps one has to take to make anything in Reaktor and the even worse lack of WYSIWYG in Kontakt.

So, does anyone else here use it? I have the full whack-version for only £7.49 a month and I haven't looked back. I am knee deep in a half-finished preset bank (50 Damaged Piano patches when it's complete) and frankly am wondering if there's going to be a market here for such a thing. I am also intrigued by what other users think of it.

Please me know your thoughts!


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## doctoremmet (Apr 22, 2021)

I haven’t (but my synth collection is ridiculous already) since I went the MSoundFactory / Falcon 2 / Equator 2
/ Biotek 2 (etc....) route. But Phaseplant has definitely been on my radar as one being in that same league... and posts like yours tempt me


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I haven’t (but my synth collection is ridiculous already) since I went the MSoundFactory / Falcon 2 / Equator 2
> / Biotek 2 (etc....) route. But Phaseplant has definitely been on my radar as one being in that same league... and posts like yours tempt me


Be tempted! It's cheap if you go monthly and honestly, the world of possibilities with the dozens of fx available in the chain on top of the infinitely routable LFO's (and other mods) and the 4 different sound engines make it a flexible and exciting instrument. And it has intriguing patch-banks by Emptyvessel, Arovane and Oddiction amongst other more obvious bass wobble heavy creators...

Think Serum maybe, but think warm and fluid.


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## sostenuto (Apr 22, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> I was so impressed by the amount of helpful answers I received yesterday regarding Arturia Pigments 3.0 that I bought it. So thanks. I am about to write my first patch....
> 
> And today's ramble is:-
> 
> ...


THX for this ! Lesser synth chops here, so even more perplexed with current choices. 
Looong time Spectrasonics user, plus array of others, ( Reaktor6, Massive-X, Spire, Synthmaster, Repro ~1 /5, Vital, et al ) .

Phaseplant & Pigment 3 remain uncertain, in terms of what they bring beyond current libraries. will continue watching here and hope for more clarity. 🤷‍♂️


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> THX for this ! Lesser synth chops here, so even more perplexed with current choices.
> Looong time Spectrasonics user, plus array of others, ( Reaktor6, Massive-X, Spire, Synthmaster, Repro ~1 /5, Vital, et al ) .
> 
> Phaseplant & Pigment 3 remain uncertain, in terms of what they bring beyond current libraries. will continue watching here and hope for more clarity. 🤷‍♂️


Cool. I have been tempted by Sprite many times and as for Massive X, well, I even sell a small patchbank I made for it but I hate using it! So difficult to program and always a kind of metallic sound. Would love to afford Omnisphere...

I would say that Phaseplant brings a fluid usability to programming but as far as current libraries go it is aimed at the young musician who loves dubstep style bass and trancey leads. However, it depends who's using it for sound-design.


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## Crowe (Apr 22, 2021)

I still love and use Reaktor and firmly believe people who think vsts become worthless when they haven't been improved in a while need to take a look at synths like the Jupiter 8 and uncross their wires. Serum could remain as-is forever and it would forever remain an awesome synth.

That said, yeah, Phaseplant is fantastic .


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## sostenuto (Apr 22, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> Cool. I have been tempted by Sprite many times and as for Massive X, well, I even sell a small patchbank I made for it but I hate using it! So difficult to program and always a kind of metallic sound. Would love to afford Omnisphere...
> 
> I would say that Phaseplant brings a fluid usability to programming but as far as current libraries go it is aimed at the young musician who loves dubstep style bass and trancey leads. However, it depends who's using it for sound-design.


Appreciate this Reply ! Omni 2.6 remains my mainstream synth, along with huge list of 3rd Pty expansions. 

Current focus is mainly _Pigments 3.0_ addition. Your opening comment is reassuring as many critical posts are based on earlier version. They do not tend to focus on 3.0 enhancements and how they may address prior impressions .... especially 'sound'. 

Can you expand your early usage Pigments experiences, especially 'sound' .... as you perceives and compare to other highly popular synths ??

Regards


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## el-bo (Apr 22, 2021)

Don't really understand why you'd think Reaktor is ossified. Seems like it allows those who are interested to go as deep as they wish and create from the ground up. Not saying that it should be preferred over other instruments, of course.

NI use it as their own development/proving ground, I think that speaks volumes. But there are also others doing really interesting stuff:









PRODUCTS - BLINKSONIC°


[vc_single_image image="3675" img_size="repeat" css=".vc_custom_1545671462994{border-top-width: px !important;border-right-width: px !important;border-bottom-width: px !important;border-left-width: px !important;padding-top: 30px !important;padding-right:




www.blinksonic.com










ET Home | welcome to EverythingTurns, the home of ET


ET Home | EverythingTurns develop professional Ensembles for Native Instruments Reaktor | Samples for the Maschine | Battery | NI Kontakt |




www.everythingturns.com


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## Markrs (Apr 22, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Don't really understand why you'd think Reaktor is ossified. Seems like it allows those who are interested to go as deep as they wish and create from the ground up. Not saying that it should be preferred over other instruments, of course.
> 
> NI use it as their own development/proving ground, I think that speaks volumes. But there are also others doing really interesting stuff:
> 
> ...


I'm very curious about Reaktor, I own it but, like with Massive X, a bit afraid to approach it.

I could be that I filter things but I never really see Reaktor or Massive X much talked about, say compared to Phaseplant, Vital, Pigments, or any of the u-he synths.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 22, 2021)

I love Reaktor as a modular. I have most of the Toybox and Unfiltered Audio modules. It is by far the best sounding synth NI has on offer. Lately though I have had way more fun with Voltage Modular.

I absolutely agree with your overall assessment. Absynth 5 remains a thing of beauty, but is very old by now, so it isn’t going to show up in many threads. Plasmonic is a worthy follow up though, but maybe too niche to attract much lasting attention?


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## doctoremmet (Apr 22, 2021)

I have visited the Kilohearts site. I remembered why I haven’t gotten round to give into any temptation. If I get it, I want to have all fx as well. Which renders an eyewatering price of €499. Ouch. (I am a terrible completist / hoarder, my OCD would kill me if there were any “blank” options in my version of the synth)


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## Markrs (Apr 22, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I have visited the Kilohearts site. I remembered why I haven’t gotten round to give into any temptation. If I get it, I want to have all fx as well. Which renders an eyewatering price of €499. Ouch. (I am a terrible completist / hoarder, my OCD would kill me if there were any “blank” options in my version of the synth)


Like everything in music it goes on sale, about 50% off for the complete. You can build the plugins up over time as individually they go half price in a similar way to Melda's weekly sale. They also regularly give away plugins in magazines (they have carve EQ in computer magazine this week). A subscription to something like Zinio or Readly means you can pick these freebies up from any of the music magazines. See it has like collecting stickers in a sticker book album you might of had as a kid. You could build it up, plus gives you more time to try out each plugin.

Or you could just wait for the sale and get them all in one go 😁


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## sostenuto (Apr 22, 2021)

No serious evaluation yet, but cost is discomforting ..... imho. 

As Omni 2.6 seasoned user, Keyscape is preferred alternative for these $$$.

....... Arturia -_ Pigments 3.0, @ crossgrade price, is nuther likely add. 

No problem dusting off Reaktor 6 periodically _


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## Markrs (Apr 22, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I have visited the Kilohearts site. I remembered why I haven’t gotten round to give into any temptation. If I get it, I want to have all fx as well. Which renders an eyewatering price of €499. Ouch. (I am a terrible completist / hoarder, my OCD would kill me if there were any “blank” options in my version of the synth)


I also believe that all 3rd party presets work fully as if you had all the snapins (which is what I think they call the plugins), even if you don't own anything more than what the basic version comes with.

There are quite a few peoPlease selling Phase plant on KVR

Just the basic version $90:
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=558875
Complete £250:








KVR Forum: FS:Kilohearts the works £210 ono - Sell & Buy (+Special Offers, Deals & Promos) Forum


KVR Audio Forum - FS:Kilohearts the works £210 ono - Sell & Buy (+Special Offers, Deals & Promos) Forum




www.kvraudio.com





Still quite a bit of money though.


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## Macrawn (Apr 22, 2021)

Phasplant is excellent. I've been really impressed with it so far. Kinda blown away by it so far after owning it about 5 months. The snapheap and multipass plugins are really useful outside of the program. 

The amount of modulation and crazy stuff you can do is really absorbing. It's missing a few things I'd like to see like an arp, and some way to set key ranges easy. Yes you can make an arp with an lfo but put that beside what falcon 2 has and.....

There are a few annoyances with it. It isn't as organic sounding as I like with most of my synths. The oscillators are not as good sounding as Massive X, or Falcon 2. It's more industrial sounding, but even still it's one of my favorite synths right beside Falcon2 and Massive X. 

It's an expensive synth though. I got mine on black friday and the cost is kinda comparable to Falcon 2 (actually more if you don't get it on sale with the effects) . It isn't really that great without buying the effects. Sales are the way to go with it. 

Falcon 2 is probably the best value out there for synths considering what you get with it. You get more and better effects just you can't use them independently like you can with Phaseplant. (As in you can use the effects separately with snapheap and multipass on any instrument you want)


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## Macrawn (Apr 22, 2021)

I will just add as noted above that you are getting into Omni territory in terms of price and most composer people will more than likely get more value out of Omni.


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## Markrs (Apr 22, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> You get more and better effects just you can't use them independently like you can with Phaseplant. (As in you can use the effects separately with snapheap and multipass on any instrument you want)


The modular way that you can use the effects, either within, Phase plant, in Snapheap, multipass, or just on their own is a very clever way to do things.


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## José Herring (Apr 22, 2021)

Just curious if I should get the full package or not. Any suggestions for owners of Phaseplant?


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## el-bo (Apr 22, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I'm very curious about Reaktor, I own it but, like with Massive X, a bit afraid to approach it.
> 
> I could be that I filter things but I never really see Reaktor or Massive X much talked about, say compared to Phaseplant, Vital, Pigments, or any of the u-he synths.


The story of Massive X has definitely been a little bit messy, and I'm sure that's part of why it gets ignored. Add to that a bit of a complicated environment and a tendency for sound-designers to perhaps spend a little too much time 'off-piste', and I think it's yet to find it's groove.

Reaktor can definitely be overwhelming, but one needn't dive into building straight away...if ever. The great thing about it is that it rewards at every level, whether that just be the included ensembles or the tons of freebies in the User Library. There's definitely a danger of hoarding ensembles and never really using them, but at least in this case it doesn't involve wasted money and divorce papers 

Perhaps we could start a Reaktor ensembles recommendation thread


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## Macrawn (Apr 22, 2021)

Markrs said:


> The modular way that you can use the effects, either within, Phase plant, in Snapheap, multipass, or just on their own is a very clever way to do things.


It's very cool so you get some value buying those effects because something like Biome (snapheap) and Triad (multipass). But as we both know Biome and Triad can be had for pretty cheap at PA if you are patient.


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## Markrs (Apr 22, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Perhaps we could start a Reaktor ensembles recommendation thread


I'm thinking that is a good idea as many here will have it as part of Komplete but never used it (like me).


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## José Herring (Apr 22, 2021)

el-bo said:


> The story of Massive X has definitely been a little bit messy, and I'm sure that's part of why it gets ignored. Add to that a bit of a complicated environment and a tendency for sound-designers to perhaps spend a little too much time 'off-piste', and I think it's yet to find it's groove.
> 
> Reaktor can definitely be overwhelming, but one needn't dive into building straight away...if ever. The great thing about it is that it rewards at every level, whether that just be the included ensembles or the tons of freebies in the User Library. There's definitely a danger of hoarding ensembles and never really using them, but at least in this case it doesn't involve wasted money and divorce papers
> 
> Perhaps we could start a Reaktor ensembles recommendation thread


Never could fully get into the sound of Reaktor. Very harsh and digital for me. Massive X though is based on the same technology and that synth sounds unbelievable to me, same with Monark and many others which makes me think that I'm a Reaktor user rather than a Reaktor programmer.


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## Macrawn (Apr 22, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Just curious if I should get the full package or not. Any suggestions for owners of Phaseplant?


I would not buy it if I was not getting all the effects honestly. So it's a big price tag but they do sale it I think a few times a year. Just by itself it's like a shadow of itself without the effects. 

So when you buy it, you buy the synth and then you need to get the toolbox. They will sale the toolbox and the synth from time to time so I'd wait for a sale if you were considering it.


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## el-bo (Apr 22, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I'm thinking that is a good idea as many here will have it as part of Komplete but never used it (like me).



For you, specifically (Pretty sure you have a wind controller), check out Chet Singer's stuff:






REAKTOR User Library







www.native-instruments.com





They can be set up for mod-wheel control, also. And CC learning the bow of this bad=boy, to the mod-wheel, brings joy






ENTRY







www.native-instruments.com


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## Macrawn (Apr 22, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Never could fully get into the sound of Reaktor. Very harsh and digital for me. Massive X though is based on the same technology and that synth sounds unbelievable to me, same with Monark and many others which makes me think that I'm a Reaktor user rather than a Reaktor programmer.


If you do consider Phaseplant just make sure you like the sound. It's not smooth sounding like Massive X. It's hard to get a phat smooth anlog sound which is so easy to do in Massive. PP has more grit in it, more industrial. I just love how smooth the osc and filters are in Massive X. And even though it has less effects than Phaseplant, NI knows how to do it right. 

But Phaseplant is just crazy for modulation and it's a one page set up with everything on it.


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## Markrs (Apr 22, 2021)

el-bo said:


> For you, specifically (Pretty sure you have a wind controller), check out Chet Singer's stuff:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks @el-bo I will have an explore and yep, I have a wind controller, as I am a bit of a midi controller addict as I love different ways of interacting with libraries.


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## José Herring (Apr 22, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> If you do consider Phaseplant just make sure you like the sound. It's not smooth sounding like Massive X. It's hard to get a phat smooth anlog sound which is so easy to do in Massive. PP has more grit in it, more industrial. I just love how smooth the osc and filters are in Massive X. And even though it has less effects than Phaseplant, NI knows how to do it right.
> 
> But Phaseplant is just crazy for modulation and it's a one page set up with everything on it.


Oh I'm getting Phaseplant. Why you ask? JXL that's why. I was an old paper and pencil type composer when I started and have always had a mild distaste for more modern ways of producing music. Since watching his videos starting during the pandemic I've finally been able to compose and produce the kind of music I wanted to just from my home studio. It's amazing.

So when it comes to synths and plugins, if JXL likes it. That's good enough for me to be interested. Kind of shallow but it's the truth.


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 22, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> Be tempted! It's cheap if you go monthly and honestly, the world of possibilities with the dozens of fx available in the chain on top of the infinitely routable LFO's (and other mods) and the 4 different sound engines make it a flexible and exciting instrument. And it has intriguing patch-banks by Emptyvessel, Arovane and Oddiction amongst other more obvious bass wobble heavy creators...
> 
> Think Serum maybe, but think warm and fluid.


I got it while it was on 50 % off sale and ONLY cause of the Arovane soundbank cause that was just some Ambient sounds I was after and that really sound unique to me.

As you can imagine 90 % of the factory presets and factory additional banks are definitely not my style  .

So just today while they presented their new soundbank I realized that I still have a coupon code lying around cause why the hell I should spent it on a soundbank I definitely NEVER would use and where the demos just hurts my ears ? So spent it for the new one which at least dont hurt . I have not tried it out cause with the Pigments 3 update and the big additional soundbanks I am still working my way threw this.

But should be mentioned that on the other hand of the high (regular) prize they are very generous which coupon codes like this (no end date, no minimal cost to spent, so now the new soundbank was just free) or very cheap sales for some of the fx (I really dont need the whole bundle).

My problem: if I dont looking for Arovane sounds (or the few others I have already identified which are nice - and that means totally untypical for Phaseplant - ) I just most likely would use Pigments or Hive simply cause of the presets and while I am sure my ears wont be hurt by most of the presets inside Phase plant (simply cause they are definitely not my style). And while I can live with another focus (like for example in the Tone2 synths, as great as Marcus is as a develloper as far is his musical taste from mine) if there is at least a broader palette of sounds, but with Phaseplant......


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## Macrawn (Apr 22, 2021)

KarlHeinz said:


> I got it while it was on 50 % off sale and ONLY cause of the Arovane soundbank cause that was just some Ambient sounds I was after and that really sound unique to me.
> 
> As you can imagine 90 % of the factory presets and factory additional banks are definitely not my style  .
> 
> ...


The presets suck and are mostly electronic music garbage. 
I love the synth but have a hard time recommending it because of those reasons and the price tag.


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## Macrawn (Apr 22, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Oh I'm getting Phaseplant. Why you ask? JXL that's why. I was an old paper and pencil type composer when I started and have always had a mild distaste for more modern ways of producing music. Since watching his videos starting during the pandemic I've finally been able to compose and produce the kind of music I wanted to just from my home studio. It's amazing.
> 
> So when it comes to synths and plugins, if JXL likes it. That's good enough for me to be interested. Kind of shallow but it's the truth.


Cool. I find JXL very inspiring and I'm glad he's taken time to share vids and show his process and journey. I didn't know he had one on phaseplant so I'm going to search that up.

I saw a vid of Daniel James messing with it. He's always completely honest about what he thinks. He sits there not knowing what he's doing and makes something great in like 1 minute.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 22, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> It's very cool so you get some value buying those effects because something like Biome (snapheap) and Triad (multipass). But as we both know Biome and Triad can be had for pretty cheap at PA if you are patient.


Could have bought them both in a bundle for $25 only yesterday


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## sostenuto (Apr 22, 2021)

KarlHeinz said:


> I got it while it was on 50 % off sale and ONLY cause of the Arovane soundbank cause that was just some Ambient sounds I was after and that really sound unique to me. (edit)
> 
> I just most likely would use Pigments or Hive simply cause of the presets and while I am sure my ears wont be hurt by most of the presets inside Phase plant (simply cause they are definitely not my style). And while I can live with another focus (like for example in the Tone2 synths, as great as Marcus is as a develloper as far is his musical taste from mine) if there is at least a broader palette of sounds, but with Phaseplant.......


fwiw .... a fav resource has been PluginGuru (John Lehmkuhl) and he has recently shown notable liking for Tone2 - Warlock. Price point is cool, and now UNIFIED, so quite interested.


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## el-bo (Apr 22, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Thanks @el-bo I will have an explore and yep, I have a wind controller, as I am a bit of a midi controller addict as I love different ways of interacting with libraries.


Well, it's not SWAM level stuff. Good starting points for interesting sound-design though.


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## Dirtgrain (Apr 22, 2021)

I did a contest with demo version of Phase Plant about a year ago. I thought it was nice, but I didn't see it adding much. Still, I made a song with it that I liked. I used a flute preset and tweaked, and I loved the sound. Months later, I was wanting to go back and mix that song better. Also, that flute sound was haunting me, making me want to use it again. Might have been around Black Friday or after when they had a good sale on Phase Plant--I bought it. And now I am collecting snapins as I go. It was like a middle ages style fairy, stealing my soul, making me yearn for that sound.


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 22, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> fwiw .... a fav resource has been PluginGuru (John Lehmkuhl) and he has recently shown notable liking for Tone2 - Warlock. Price point is cool, and now UNIFIED, so quite interested.


Warlock is a little bit "outside" as it follows a completely different concept as the other tone2 synths and the really big strength of it is - apart from the very simple user interface and great sound - the "intelligent" or whatever randomizer. So you dont rely on Marcus musical taste  .

And to not being missunderstood: there are wonderful ambient and whatever soundexpansions for nearly all of the Tone2 synths so that personal rating really goes to the factory presets. For example: with Icarus 2 there is this fantastic "hit-one-note-and-you-have-a-song" category and if you listen.....well.....phaseplant ? Not one "nice" example using this (and so far nobody of the preset makers seems to have been able or interested to do something with it, in one case announced but never realized, kind of a bit sad).


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I have visited the Kilohearts site. I remembered why I haven’t gotten round to give into any temptation. If I get it, I want to have all fx as well. Which renders an eyewatering price of €499. Ouch. (I am a terrible completist / hoarder, my OCD would kill me if there were any “blank” options in my version of the synth)


But the monthly option for the complete package is so affordable


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Appreciate this Reply ! Omni 2.6 remains my mainstream synth, along with huge list of 3rd Pty expansions.
> 
> Current focus is mainly _Pigments 3.0_ addition. Your opening comment is reassuring as many critical posts are based on earlier version. They do not tend to focus on 3.0 enhancements and how they may address prior impressions .... especially 'sound'.
> 
> ...


In due course will do


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## Dirtgrain (Apr 22, 2021)

KarlHeinz said:


> with Icarus 2 there is this fantastic "hit-one-note-and-you-have-a-song" category and if you listen.....well.....phaseplant ? Not one "nice" example using this (and so far nobody of the preset makers seems to have been able or interested to do something with it, in one case announced but never realized, kind of a bit sad).


Could you clarify this. I was not quite sure if you are saying Phase Plant has not had any great presets/soundpacks made with it (I have no clue, as I haven't looked).


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> I would not buy it if I was not getting all the effects honestly. So it's a big price tag but they do sale it I think a few times a year. Just by itself it's like a shadow of itself without the effects.
> 
> So when you buy it, you buy the synth and then you need to get the toolbox. They will sale the toolbox and the synth from time to time so I'd wait for a sale if you were considering it.


It's a very affordable monthly subs for the whole package.


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

el-bo said:


> For you, specifically (Pretty sure you have a wind controller), check out Chet Singer's stuff:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still think Reaktor is a great instrument and Toybox and co are still releasing new things. Maybe I just moved on?


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## Macrawn (Apr 22, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Could have bought them both in a bundle for $25 only yesterday


Only slightly cheaper than the toolbox lol! And Biome is fantastic.


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

KarlHeinz said:


> Warlock is a little bit "outside" as it follows a completely different concept as the other tone2 synths and the really big strength of it is - apart from the very simple user interface and great sound - the "intelligent" or whatever randomizer. So you dont rely on Marcus musical taste  .
> 
> And to not being missunderstood: there are wonderful ambient and whatever soundexpansions for nearly all of the Tone2 synths so that personal rating really goes to the factory presets. For example: with Icarus 2 there is this fantastic "hit-one-note-and-you-have-a-song" category and if you listen.....well.....phaseplant ? Not one "nice" example using this (and so far nobody of the preset makers seems to have been able or interested to do something with it, in one case announced but never realized, kind of a bit sad).


Oddly enough the new pack released today has quite a few of this kind of preset.


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

Macrawn said:


> The presets suck and are mostly electronic music garbage.
> I love the synth but have a hard time recommending it because of those reasons and the price tag.


I agree with the "garbage' tag on a lot of the presets which is why I'm trying to make a different kind of pack!


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 22, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> Could you clarify this. I was not quite sure if you are saying Phase Plant has not had any great presets/soundpacks made with it (I have no clue, as I haven't looked).


In general: YES. I love this one additional factory soundbank (Arovane) which has really nothing to do with the factory sound bank or the other additional soundbanks. So the synth is capable of really doing that kind of stuff but its just not represented, not in the focus, whatever of kilohearts. I had 2 coupon codes for getting any of the other soundbanks for free lying around for months cause why should I get something (even for free) that just hurts my ears ?


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 22, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> Oddly enough the new pack released today has quite a few of this kind of preset.


Which new pack you are talking about ? Seems I have missed it.


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## el-bo (Apr 22, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> But the monthly option for the complete package is so affordable


But despite easier instalments, it's still a lot of money to pay for a synth.


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

el-bo said:


> But despite easier instalments, it's still a lot of money to pay for a synth.


Fair enough.


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## el-bo (Apr 22, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> I still think Reaktor is a great instrument and Toybox and co are still releasing new things. Maybe I just moved on?


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

KarlHeinz said:


> Which new pack you are talking about ? Seems I have missed it.


https://kilohearts.com/products/astral_beings


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 22, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> https://kilohearts.com/products/astral_beings


Yes, that was the one where I spent my coupon on today. At least interesting (and not hurting  )-


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## Flintpope (Apr 22, 2021)

KarlHeinz said:


> In general: YES. I love this one additional factory soundbank (Arovane) which has really nothing to do with the factory sound bank or the other additional soundbanks. So the synth is capable of really doing that kind of stuff but its just not represented, not in the focus, whatever of kilohearts. I had 2 coupon codes for getting any of the other soundbanks for free lying around for months cause why should I get something (even for free) that just hurts my ears ?


I think Emptyvessel's bank is pretty cool too. I agree that most of the banks are kind of manic rave/dubstep or something I don't like either. The whole reason I'm making my own bank!


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 22, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> I think Emptyvessel's bank is pretty cool too. I agree that most of the banks are kind of manic rave/dubstep or something I don't like either. The whole reason I'm making my own bank!


Yes, you are right, I forgot to mention this one, its not that unique (for me) like the Arovane one but it really has some nice and great pad and key sounds. I think I got this with coupon or whatever coming with buying phase plant.

And I am sure I will love your bank when its out


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## Daniel James (Apr 22, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> I was so impressed by the amount of helpful answers I received yesterday regarding Arturia Pigments 3.0 that I bought it. So thanks. I am about to write my first patch....
> 
> And today's ramble is:-
> 
> ...


I picked it up the other day! after watching a video or two to figure out how its flow was supposed to work, it's now one of my favorites. I already own the snapins, have for a couple of years now so it's already super powerful for me.

When I am working, and I think of a sound design idea, usually a synth is attached in my head already. And phaseplant is popping to mind way more than often. I still use pigments for the Granular engine, great for making pads and layering in some extra layers. But the easy way to set up modulations in Phaseplant makes prototyping very quick and easy.


-DJ


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## shawnsingh (Apr 22, 2021)

It's funny, I was just about to start a thread asking people's opinions about PhasePlant vs Falcon the other day.

I only have Falcon, but PhasePlant has received a lot of attention for what seem to be mostly the same synth-level features. The only main differences I can see are:

Workflow, it seems that neither is objectively better or faster, just depends on the person. I like falcon's hierarchical workstation approach a lot.
PhasePlant can connect audio rate signals to modulate some of the oscillator parameters, i.e. opens up more ways to do FM than Falcon can do
PhasePlant apparently has a stellar wavetable editor
Falcon has a few more options for sound generators like additive and pluck
Falcon has a few more top level features like arpeggiators, scripting, and sequencers
Maybe doesnt matter to synth heads as much, but...
Falcon is fully multi-timbral (I think PhasePlant is not, is that correct?)
Falcon is a much deeper sampler too, a la Kontakt

Beyond that, it seems like they have nearly the same feature set, just a different logical organization.

Is there anything I'm missing that makes PhasePlant worth the dive for Falcon users?


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## Macrawn (Apr 22, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> I agree with the "garbage' tag on a lot of the presets which is why I'm trying to make a different kind of pack!


I'm actually a fan of Dash Glitch not because I like the music, I kinda hate it but he's an interesting guy and actually speaks synth language. I'm learning a lot from his vids even though I don't like the sounds. He's just a master with it so I'm glad Kilohearts put out a pack by him.


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## sostenuto (Apr 22, 2021)

Out of my depth ... but not comfy with 'sound design' as a notable parameter to rate 'synths'. 
OTH, _other side_ may find 'sound design' as defining parameter. 
Where am I going afoul here ??


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## shawnsingh (Apr 22, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Out of my depth ... but not comfy with 'sound design' as a notable parameter to rate 'synths'.
> OTH, _other side_ may find 'sound design' as defining parameter.
> Where am I going afoul here ??


Maybe different definitions of sound design from different perspectives? I think a lot of synth people would say "sound design" is the art of creating any sound, with synths or any other tools. Other people think of "sound design" as the art of sampling and processing or the art of creating sound effects or only the non-melodic atmospheric stuff you hear in TV underscores...


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

I've been ranting about PhasePlant to a bunch of friends for the past what year or so... Loving it and it suits my style of sound making so well. Actually am just some video editing away from being able to release a content bank for it... :D


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

Could y’all point me to some Phaseplant sound design videos? I feel a terrible bout of GAS coming on... Didn’t Cameron do one? Maybe his soothing voice will calm me the f*** down...


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Could y’all point me to some Phaseplant sound design videos? I feel a terrible bout of GAS coming on... Didn’t Cameron do one? Maybe his soothing voice will calm me the f*** down...


If I remember correctly (been a while since I watched it) this Andrew Huang video on Phase Plant was nice:


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Could y’all point me to some Phaseplant sound design videos? I feel a terrible bout of GAS coming on... Didn’t Cameron do one? Maybe his soothing voice will calm me the f*** down...


Another one from Matthias Holmgren:


And one from Venus Theory:


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

Thanks! Much appreciated. I was not wrong about Cameron either:


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Could y’all point me to some Phaseplant sound design videos? I feel a terrible bout of GAS coming on... Didn’t Cameron do one? Maybe his soothing voice will calm me the f*** down...


Here's one for the basics:


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

What for me is the big thing about Phase Plant is the sample module. I think people look at Phase Plant as just another synth when that module takes it to another direction than say Serum and Vital.

Also mentioning the price of the whole Kilohearts bundles: if you're into just using presets then you don't actually need to pay for any of the snapins. Patches using snapins you don't have will work, you just can't tweak the individual snapins.

And you can always collect (if you're not into subscriptions that is) the snapins one by one (I started like that) Kilohearts' has sales all the time and they will offer you bundle upgrade prices all the time. That's how I went from having a few snapins to the whole shebang.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

Kuusniemi said:


> What for me is the big thing about Phase Plant is the sample module. I think people look at Phase Plant as just another synth when that module takes it to another direction than say Serum and Vital.


And it does granular too right? To me it certainly seems to have things in common with my Falcon2, MSoundFactory and Equator2 (a bit of a hidden gem to be honest) that all have a lot of similarities. Yet, it may have a better UI still....


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> And it does granular too right? To me it certainly seems to have things in common with Falcon2, MSoundFactory and Equator2 (a bit of a hidden gem to be honest) that all have a lot of similarities. Yet, it may have a better UI still....


Full granular not yet (you can do granular type of stuff like Matthias presents in his video there a few posts up). But the way you can modulate things in Phase Plant makes it a lot more powerful than quite a bit of other sample capable synths. In this respect I think it beats say Omnisphere's sample engine (the granular in Omnisphere is a different beast).

(Did I say I had been ranting about PP?) :D


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## Markrs (Apr 23, 2021)

I get a feeling we all follow the same synth people on YouTube (I am subscribed to everyone YouTuber listed so far) 😁


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

OMG. Are we in an...









Echo Chamber - errr - errr - errr - errr???!


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## Markrs (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> OMG. Are we in an...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Almost certainly, a VI-C echo chamber, but there are worse places to be! 😁


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I get a feeling we all follow the same synth people on YouTube (I am subscribed to everyone YouTuber listed so far) 😁


There are only so many good synth youtubers... :D


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

Anyone thinking of selling their copy of Phase Plant can hit me up with a DM. Mostly just interested in a full Toolbox Ultimate edition, since for me patching involves using the full toolkit of effects. Thinking of paying Black Friday level price for it. Let me know


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## Flintpope (Apr 23, 2021)

Kuusniemi said:


> I've been ranting about PhasePlant to a bunch of friends for the past what year or so... Loving it and it suits my style of sound making so well. Actually am just some video editing away from being able to release a content bank for it... :D


Always love someone who rants about Phaseplant. is your bank self-hosted or have Kilohearts taken you aboard?


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## Flintpope (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Anyone thinking of selling their copy of Phase Plant can hit me up with a DM. Mostly just interested in a full Toolbox Ultimate edition, since for me patching involves using the full toolkit of effects. Thinking of paying Black Friday level price for it. Let me know


Hah! I knew you'd be tempted. Come over to The Dark Side...


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## Flintpope (Apr 23, 2021)

Kuusniemi said:


> Another one from Matthias Holmgren:
> 
> 
> And one from Venus Theory:



So pleased Matthias has a toy keyboard like me!


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Anyone thinking of selling their copy of Phase Plant can hit me up with a DM. Mostly just interested in a full Toolbox Ultimate edition, since for me patching involves using the full toolkit of effects. Thinking of paying Black Friday level price for it. Let me know





Flintpope said:


> Always love someone who rants about Phaseplant. is your bank self-hosted or have Kilohearts taken you aboard?


At the moment self hosted, but they have shared the Content Bank creator with me, so I might try to persuade them... :D Atleast they said they liked what they heard when I sent the Release Candidate 1 for them to listen.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> Hah! I knew you'd be tempted. Come over to The Dark Side...


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


>


This would be GAS you would not regret... :D


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

Kuusniemi said:


> This would be GAS you would not regret... :D


I honestly hardly ever do. I am a horrible person


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## Flintpope (Apr 23, 2021)

Kuusniemi said:


> At the moment self hosted, but they have shared the Content Bank creator with me, so I might try to persuade them... :D Atleast they said they liked what they heard when I sent the Release Candidate 1 for them to listen.


Yes. Stu gave me the bank creator too but his general vibe has been "we're backed up on featured artist content for the new update". Talking of which, it is supposed to be a very big change to do with being able to modulate EVERY parameter everywhere.


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> Yes. Stu gave me the bank creator too but his general vibe has been "we're backed up on featured artist content for the new update". Talking of which, it is supposed to be a very big change to do with being able to modulate EVERY parameter everywhere.


Well, that sounds like a nice update... :D I'll probably have a chat with them about getting onboard with them, but I'm just as cool releasing through my own channel.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)




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## sostenuto (Apr 23, 2021)

shawnsingh said:


> Maybe different definitions of sound design from different perspectives? I think a lot of synth people would say "sound design" is the art of creating any sound, with synths or any other tools. Other people think of "sound design" as the art of sampling and processing or the art of creating sound effects or only the non-melodic atmospheric stuff you hear in TV underscores...


Ha ! You are spot on. Was comin off @ Daniel James post and narrow view of professional, techy sound design work. My bad ....


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## paulmatthew (Apr 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Just curious if I should get the full package or not. Any suggestions for owners of Phaseplant?


Jose, a good option would be to go with a 1 year subscription that gives you access to everything for $9.99 and you get a $100 voucher after 12 months. Its much easier to buy as you go with them and the upgrade offers are very good depending on what you own. If you are only after Phaseplant , then Toolbox Professional and the addition of Faturator are a must. Keep in mind that all effects work as VST in your DAW too. Not only do you get useable plug-in effects , but they are also used in Phaseplant.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

After a year you will have spent $120. Or net $20. The upgrade offers needs to be very good to make it tempting for me to go the subscription route. Will it be?


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## Flintpope (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


>


You're bonkers. But thanks!


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## Flintpope (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> After a year you will have spent $120. Or net $20. The upgrade offers needs to be very good to make it tempting for me to go the subscription route. Will it be?


You just worked out that Phaseplant cost $20 per year. That's cheap. HOWEVER, I just spent some time on Pigments 3.0 and IT"S BETTER THAN PHASEPLANT. Still, now I have both - Muhahahahahahahahah


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## Flintpope (Apr 23, 2021)

I must say this is turning out to be a most interesting thread.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> You just worked out that Phaseplant cost $20 per year. That's cheap. HOWEVER, I just spent some time on Pigments 3.0 and IT"S BETTER THAN PHASEPLANT. Still, now I have both - Muhahahahahahahahah


Hehe. This comment somehow made me feel stupid. But only for a minute there


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> IT"S BETTER THAN PHASEPLANT


Interesting indeed!


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## Flintpope (Apr 23, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> That Faturator they have on sale is so fat that is fattening my fat just thinking how fat is it.
> Even writing about it is fat.
> 
> I don't think it's part of the Phaseplant bundles they sell.
> ...


Funnily enough it's the one Snap-in I haven't used yet as I find it a bit crunchy and digital sounding. Love the new Non-Linear Filter though for getting some fatness in a different way.


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## paulmatthew (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> After a year you will have spent $120. Or net $20. The upgrade offers needs to be very good to make it tempting for me to go the subscription route. Will it be?


I just got Phaseplant for $42 a week or 2 ago! Then upgraded to Toolbox Ultimate for an additional $60 thanks to 2 $30 coupons handed out by kilohearts. So yes , the very good deals are available.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> I just got Phaseplant for $42 a week or 2 ago! Then upgraded to Toolbox Ultimate for an additional $60 thanks to 2 $30 coupons handed out by kilohearts. So yes , the very good deals are available.


They hand out coupons randomly? Or is it a bit like Plugin Alliance? Huge list prices and pretty decent sales every once in a while?


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## Markrs (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> They hand out coupons randomly? Or is a bit like Plugin Alliance? Huge list prices and pretty decent sales every once in a while?


Iwas wondering the same, as I would be happy to consider phase plant at a well reduced price


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## paulmatthew (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> They hand out coupons randomly? Or is it a bit like Plugin Alliance? Huge list prices and pretty decent sales every once in a while?


See my post here about that , but yes. https://vi-control.net/community/th...g-use-of-their-kilohearts-coupon-code.108354/


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## paulmatthew (Apr 23, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Iwas wondering the same, as I would be happy to consider phase plant at a well reduced price


If you are an existing customer , yes. You should have received on about 2 weeks ago, I think it’s good until the end of the month.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> If you are an existing customer , yes. You should have received on about 2 weeks ago, I think it’s good until the end of the month.


Gotcha. I am not a customer. And it’s a monthly affair? Like PA?


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## Markrs (Apr 23, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> If you are an existing customer , yes. You should have received on about 2 weeks ago, I think it’s good until the end of the month.


I had "emails when plugins go on sale" unticked, which is probably why I didn't get the voucher. Have now ticked the options, so hopefully in the future I will get them.


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## paulmatthew (Apr 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Gotcha. I am not a customer. And it’s a monthly affair? Like PA?


No but I’ve gotten some out of the blue. Ended up getting 2 totaling $60 off which was unexpected. Your best bet is to buy from JRR shop during their 50% sales as they are even cheaper, then do all upgrades through Kilohearts. You will end up getting Ultimate and Phaseplant over time for more than 50% off if you time the sales right. Usually upgrades are 50% off on Black Friday too. To put it in perspective , my final upgrade recently added Carve EQ, Slice EQ and the Disperser for $60. List price for those is $217 and upgrade cost was about 73% off.


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## paulmatthew (Apr 23, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I had "emails when plugins go on sale" unticked, which is probably why I didn't get the voucher. Have now ticked the options, so hopefully in the future I will get them.


Try emailing support and see if they can issue you one


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## slidemasterx (Apr 23, 2021)

Which one would you recommend for somebody starting out with synthesis and going through the syntorial course? Phaseplant or Pigments?


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## Markrs (Apr 23, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> No but I’ve gotten some out of the blue. Ended up getting 2 totaling $60 off which was unexpected. Your best bet is to buy from JRR shop during their 50% sales as they are even cheaper, then do all upgrades through Kilohearts. You will end up getting Ultimate and Phaseplant over time for more than 50% off if you time the sales right. Usually upgrades are 50% off on Black Friday too. To put it in perspective , my final upgrade recently added Carve EQ, Slice EQ and the Disperser for $60. List price for those is $217 and upgrade cost was about 73% off.


Carve EQ is currently free with this month's Computer Music Magazine. I got Slice EQ the same way.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 23, 2021)

slidemasterx said:


> Which one would you recommend for somebody starting out with synthesis and going through the syntorial course? Phaseplant or Pigments?


Can’t speak for Phase Plant, but Pigments 3 has a fantastic user interface for beginners, and has a great built-in tutorial. It is a fantastic synthesizer


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 23, 2021)

slidemasterx said:


> Which one would you recommend for somebody starting out with synthesis and going through the syntorial course? Phaseplant or Pigments?


PhasePlant might not be the first synth to learn as you each time basically build the synth from scratch. That's the beauty of the thing, but if you have no grasp of how to do things then the learning curve might be a bit steep.


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## Flintpope (Apr 23, 2021)

slidemasterx said:


> Which one would you recommend for somebody starting out with synthesis and going through the syntorial course? Phaseplant or Pigments?


Frankly, Pigments. The tutorials are mega-instructive whereas Phaseplant sort of assumes you you know some stuff. Pigments is more cost effective (much more) and I think it is a better, deeper piece of software that has levels of intelligent sound design I am only just discovering. However, Phaseplant is a lot more fun and you get more instant gratification. I am lucky to have both and would give up neither but definitely make Pigments your first choice given what you have said here. And I've only had Pigments for about 2 days!


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## ghobii (Apr 24, 2021)

I've been caught up in these Phaseplant gas-storms before, but each time I demo'd it I was a bit underwhelmed. Something about the overall sound doesn't do it for me. I feel like its biggest selling point is the modularity and modulations, but having Bitwig already, Phaseplant isn't really bringing anything new. And I agree that Pigments is much more interesting.


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## Flintpope (Apr 24, 2021)

ghobii said:


> I've been caught up in these Phaseplant gas-storms before, but each time I demo'd it I was a bit underwhelmed. Something about the overall sound doesn't do it for me. I feel like its biggest selling point is the modularity and modulations, but having Bitwig already, Phaseplant isn't really bringing anything new. And I agree that Pigments is much more interesting.


I get what you're saying, agree about the mod thing in Phaseplant being its big attraction, don't think the sound is too shabby though. I also agree Pigments can do similar sounds in a less speedy but more deeply satisfying way.

I had a go at the Bitwig modular setup as I was inspired by some vids online and thought it looked and sounded brilliant. However I found it almost physically clunky compared to Phaseplant as the grid seemed sort of bossy and slow to use and also implied I had to connect certain modules in a certiain way for them to work. For some reason Phaseplant seems more fluid and improvisational to me which is how I like to work.


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## Kuusniemi (Apr 24, 2021)

Flintpope said:


> I had a go at the Bitwig modular setup as I was inspired by some vids online and thought it looked and sounded brilliant. However I found it almost physically clunky compared to Phaseplant as the grid seemed sort of bossy and slow to use and also implied I had to connect certain modules in a certiain way for them to work. For some reason Phaseplant seems more fluid and improvisational to me which is how I like to work.


I have the same feeling. Love to use Bitwig for sound design stuff, but the Grid is somehow slow to work with where as Phase Plant is just a wonderland of experimenting. Which is an odd feeling with the Grid since Bitwig otherwise is a modulation heaven.


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## muziksculp (Apr 25, 2021)

Hi,

I checked both Phaseplant, and Vital. Basically, I wanted to get one of these great sounding modern synths for sound design.

I ended buying *Vital*, instead of Phaseplant, I think Vital is a really great synth. especially for sound design. Not sure I need phaseplant, now that I have Vital. I think they are both great Synths.

Wonderful GUI as well.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## slidemasterx (Apr 25, 2021)

Thanks for the advice guys. I've decided to get Pigments. Looking forward to what I can come up with.


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## Dirtgrain (Apr 25, 2021)

Man, I bought Phase Plant at Black Friday, and I have bought snapins in three sales since. I got no coupon recently. I am fortune's fool.


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## paulmatthew (May 7, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> Man, I bought Phase Plant at Black Friday, and I have bought snapins in three sales since. I got no coupon recently. I am fortune's fool.


I just got another $30 off coupon code good until May 31st. They must be on a push to make some sales at the moment. That’s been $90 worth of codes in the last 2 months now.


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## shawnsingh (May 7, 2021)

(ogling from the distance over in the Falcon corner, wondering if I'm missing out...)


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## doctoremmet (May 7, 2021)

shawnsingh said:


> (ogling from the distance over in the Falcon corner, wondering if I'm missing out...)


You’re in a very decent corner there... I live there too haha. But yes, Pigment’s IS great and v3 has made a convert


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## Russell Anderson (May 22, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> You’re in a very decent corner there... I live there too haha. But yes, Pigment’s IS great and v3 has made a convert


And I’m over here in the Phase Plant + Harmor + Padshop 2 corner thinking about how cool Pigments’ different engines sound. That cluster mode sounds so good to me, that granular so smooth... The analogue oscs and filters aren’t bad at all, but I’m also strongly in orbit around Diva. I’m still on the fence, but it’s tempting. Pigments is getting to be really good.


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## pfylim (May 23, 2021)

Reaktor all the way. Pigments is a clear stab at Serum. Sure it's competent but not a fan of interface eye candy. I'd go with Serum any day, millions of 3rd party presets. It's pretty much the wavetable granddaddy.


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