# Music as a career - be careful what you wish for...



## scottbuckley (Oct 4, 2016)

Hey guys,

I was trawling through my old forum posts looking for an elusive link to an old file, and came across a post I made back in 2007 (under another user ID!), regarding being in a writing rut and feeling creatively frustrated after recently quitting my day job and writing library music for a living.

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/in-a-rut-help.6190/

I wanted to share it because *a)* some of you have also expressed your concerns about stifled creativity and writing ruts, and *b)* it's interesting to reflect my career, and the decisions I've made, which really do converge to this specific post.

*This is just my experience*, which will be different to most, but I feel it's important to share all aspects of working in this crazy music industry. Feel free to skip down to *my point below the lines* if you don't care about my entire backstory .

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
At the time of the original post, I was fairly fresh out of a music degree, and was in a music tech sales/training position before I was given the opportunity to write trailer music for a respected LA-based library (I'm omitting the name for a few reasons I won't go into here) around the start of 2006. This was my chance to quit the daily grind, and chase my dreams! However, as I express in my post, I struggled with feelings of apathy, frustration and disappointment with my work - even though I was satisfying my boss and clients.

These feelings continued for the next few years, working in both Australia and in the US, regardless of the success we were achieving, or the great experiences I was having writing for and recording my orchestral works. You have to understand that this was apparently my 'dream job', and it was cushy - a salary and a supportive boss - which is way more than most library composers get these days. We were getting some great placements, and they were getting more and more frequent as time progressed.

*But in short, I hated it*. I hated the fact that this fun, enjoyable activity turned into a grind. It turned into a 9-5, passionless thing full of stress and anxiety. Music became less about the art, or even the craft, and more about the transaction. As time went on, my feelings started to show and tensions between my boss and I began surfacing.

At my wits end, I left the US in 2008, and for a long time, music writing altogether.

It took a long time to shift my goal posts, to figure out what the hell I was doing. Music was completely wrecked for me, and I felt so naïve, and so very lost. Long story short, I was encouraged by my wife to follow an alternative interest in science all the way through to a PhD in soil/plant science, and I finally feel like I've found the place where I should have been so many years ago.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

*I guess the point I want to make is* - if you are struggling with similar issues, but are firm about the idea of making music your career, _your daily job_ - you have to be aware that your perspective of it may change, and *maybe not for the better*. The transition from music as a hobby, to music as a full-time job was jarring for me, and came with pressure and complimentary anxieties I wasn't ready for.

In the original post, @midphase spoke about the 'survival of the fittest' aspect, and he's right to a certain extent. I maybe had my own trial-by-fire and failed, but I also don't think that is something to be ashamed of. I'm so pleased that I had this experience, which taught me a lot about myself and my limits, and I'm proud that I made the decision to leave. And after a long break, I'm finally writing again - but this time, for myself. It's the best .

*Let's be clear, though* - I'm not advocating that if you are feeling this way, you should quit. But, it's up to you to change your situation, to get back in control. It took me many years of 'working through it' to realise that things weren't going to get better for me, but I hope that this isn't the same for the rest of you.

Anyway, enough about me. If anyone needs to chat, feel free to PM me .

-s


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## Lynyrd (Oct 4, 2016)

Scott, thank you for sharing your story. What an interesting and exciting experience. I'm sure your music will be much better now from an artistic point of view!


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## Hannes_F (Oct 5, 2016)

Hi Scott, thanks for sharing your story!


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## passsacaglia (Oct 5, 2016)

Great one - this gives another perspective and something everyone can feel. 
The latest stuff I have worked on, have been stressfull because of the short of time mostly and due to my school which was my 100% job, now I have started my work but still have some school left.

Haven't "made it" yet but have a long curicculum behind me of music and music related cool jobs and offerings.
Although, personally I haven't reached my goals yet...but my 3 most influencing artists/composers are Yann Tiersen, Philip Glass and James Horner. My "dream" is...just to work, somehow with the music. It doesn't have to be writing trailer music, but Having my music in films etc, this seems a little bit "better" than always Writing music to a specific piece etc.
Then 30-40% is the nice feeling of actually working and get hired by film producers wanting music.
The rest is the "artist" side of me, I want to be on a stage performing...either with a punk band with a singer, drummer and a guitarist or just me playing my pieces on a concert in a hall for audience, like Philip Glass for example, or having my work played. That's my dream of music... at the moment I'm in an IT company specified in IT solutions for healthcare, so I'm an architect/informatitician developing new cool tools, drawing sketches of systems etc, it's fun and creative but, I would dream to just, wake up, take a walk a la Steve Jobs, have a coffee, nice lunch in the sun, write some music in the afternoon, look at beautiful places in the world on Google, write some more music, have a relaxed life as a musician..Getting older has really got me into thinking like what do I want to do in my life, remember you only live once, do what you want etc. 

So...perhaps your experience is the kind of more "stressfull" or have the tendency to develop these feelings and experiences maybe... I can't let go of the music, if I'm not near my piano, the music is coming through me inside my head and I have to write them down on my cellphone in "notes", it's like... I hear melodies and beautiful passages I can play for hours, and I cannot stop it, that's my "sign", and forces me to do it, continue with it, take my time, record it, chasing the dreams, and in 90% of the cases people love it and they want to hear it somewhere, in a movie, series or whatever.
So that's my "call". And that way of being a "musician", just making music I think is more nicer than always have pressure on yourself...I think, so it can be 2 sides of the coin here 
But very interesting reading and big ups for you sharing it! Hope it was cool to chip in what was buzzing in my head when reading it hehe.


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## Arbee (Oct 5, 2016)

Great insight Scott, thanks for sharing it. I had a similar epiphany way back in 1991 where, after some soul searching and despite record deals, TV music shows, playing with international celebs and even playing for royalty, I changed course from 14 years of pro music into business software development and management. Best thing I ever did....

Here I am some 20 years later on the way back the other way to music, leaving corporate life behind me. Best thing I ever did....

Not only different strokes for different folks, but sometimes just different times in the lives of the same folks. Once the music is in you however, it has a way of finding its way back. Like you, I now do what I want musically, how I want, when I want. Heaven!....


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## ein fisch (Oct 5, 2016)

Thumbs up for this!


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## scottbuckley (Oct 5, 2016)

passsacaglia said:


> So...perhaps your experience is the kind of more "stressfull" or have the tendency to develop these feelings and experiences maybe... I can't let go of the music, if I'm not near my piano, the music is coming through me inside my head and I have to write them down on my cellphone in "notes", it's like... I hear melodies and beautiful passages I can play for hours, and I cannot stop it, that's my "sign", and forces me to do it, continue with it, take my time, record it, chasing the dreams, and in 90% of the cases people love it and they want to hear it somewhere, in a movie, series or whatever.
> So that's my "call". And that way of being a "musician", just making music I think is more nicer than always have pressure on yourself...I think, so it can be 2 sides of the coin here
> But very interesting reading and big ups for you sharing it! Hope it was cool to chip in what was buzzing in my head when reading it hehe.



I find this too - once the music is in you it's hard to stop it. I found this the hardest part of stopping the music work, because I found my compass was always redirecting me back to it. But even when I was finally back in Australia writing for myself, I hated the music I wrote and felt very emotional - even physically angry/sick - about that. I even hated listening to music because I just couldn't switch off that part of me that was back in LA writing trailer music.

As I said, though - I'm in a much better place now. :D

-s


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## scottbuckley (Oct 5, 2016)

Arbee said:


> Great insight Scott, thanks for sharing it. I had a similar epiphany way back in 1991 where, after some soul searching and despite record deals, TV music shows, playing with international celebs and even playing for royalty, I changed course from 14 years of pro music into business software development and management. Best thing I ever did....
> 
> Here I am some 20 years later on the way back the other way to music, leaving corporate life behind me. Best thing I ever did....
> 
> Not only different strokes for different folks, but sometimes just different times in the lives of the same folks. Once the music is in you however, it has a way of finding its way back. Like you, I now do what I want musically, how I want, when I want. Heaven!....



So great to hear this. In many ways I think I was just too 'young', and too naïve to deal with the business, and to be objective. It was only 9-10 years ago, but I really was a different person back then. I can even notice it in how I wrote that original post - I sounded so young it's cringeworthy! :D

-s


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## Mike Fox (Oct 5, 2016)

Very cool thread. It's posts like these that continue to make me realize that being a probyist is probably where it's at for me. They say you should do what you love career wise, but maybe it's different with music? I recall an Elfman interview where he said that what he was doing wasn't fun, but rather hard work. I think If anyone wants to pursue music as a career, they should probably accept the fact that the fun could diminish, and the work could begin.


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## prodigalson (Oct 5, 2016)

Seth Godin has a good book called 'The Dip' which is subtitled "A little book that teaches you when to quit (and when to stick)."

He talks about the fact that not only do successful people quit things but they "quit fast, quit often, and quit without guilt"


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## reddognoyz (Oct 5, 2016)

I stuck with it, maybe because it was all I ever did that I liked careerwise, or I didn't see another choice, or I got lucky and strung together enough jobs that I kept it going, although there were plenty of times when I had nothing lined up, whatever I stayed in music. I found my niche around 1999 and have kept that going, although these days I am not inspired by about 80% of the work I do, but that's after 30 odd years, and I am hoping I will have another act before I'm done.
I took some side trips for sure, a long period of sound design work as my best money making, years of godawful promos, (doing the whole thing, music vo record sound design mix), lots of the kind of jobs that got me by don't even exist these days. Advertising music was a viable career with lots of back end and good fees upfront, even demos paid well if you could bust them out. If you had a studio, a really big money maker was making dubs and sending them out via messenger. Gone.

I had a conversation with a friend who is the current music director at Blue Man, he asked me if I knew a soul from back when I was at Berklee who was still in this biz. I replied in the negative, he concurred.
When I was in school "you gotta love it" was the catch phrase from every teacher. I didn't fully digest that until reciently. I still play music for myself almost every day, I do love it. I don't go to work bristling with anticipation like I did for many many years, but I still do often enough to keep me going.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 6, 2016)

Anything that becomes an adult job to make a living, will get less exciting and become more about consistent performance. And the busier you are with your work, probably the more stress. Music is not immune from this.

That said, the worst day I have ever had making music for a living was better than the best day any coal miner will ever have. I try to keep that in mind.


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## clisma (Oct 6, 2016)

Wise words, Jay. Exactly my thinking.


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## mwarsell (Oct 6, 2016)

Any openings for that LA-based library now?


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## Markus S (Oct 6, 2016)

mwarsell said:


> Any openings for that LA-based library now?



Careful what you wish for..


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## Rodney Money (Oct 6, 2016)

Markus S said:


> Careful what you wish for..


Like this kid who just wanted a fairy tale birthday party:


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## Studio E (Oct 6, 2016)

I don't know at this point what the top rung will ever be for me and in a way, that's kind of nice. I'm at the end of a 4 year streak right now in which my work improved drastically but probably received less money than many years before that. I am only a part time composer and I haven't really actively sought work. Some but not much. What I can say, is that when I have a project I love, and have a reasonable amount of time to deal with it, I am loving life. But when I am stretched across 4 projects (like I am now) and only 1.5 of them really interest me, and I'm trying to have any resemblance to a normal life, it gets very frustrating very fast, especially if I am having a hard time hitting the mark with the music. One thing I have found that I enjoy almost as composing is recording and mixing other people's music. It's nice to break it up a little for sure. I'm 15 years from retirement at my day job. I figure that if I want to go fulltime, I can do that in retirement.


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## Desire Inspires (Oct 7, 2016)

Sounds like a case of sour grapes. 

Whatever job I have, I am thankful for it. I don't complain or get upset or angry because it isn't a dream. Life isn't about being happy all the time. Work is work. 

So I say to anyone that wants a career in music to not go into it with this dream idea. Go into it with the idea that you are there to work to support others. That is how most jobs are. It is not a bad thing.


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## AllanH (Oct 8, 2016)

About 8+ years ago a major employer in the silicon valley was trying to figure out what made people happy at work. To most peoples surprise, at the time, the most significant aspect of happiness was working with people you enjoyed working with. Salary, benefits, schedule etc were all lower priorities.

When choosing a lonely profession, such as at-home composer or consultant, it's easy to get disconnected and feel out of touch. I think communities, such as VI-Control can help with that.


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## dannymc (Oct 9, 2016)

> About 8+ years ago a major employer in the silicon valley was trying to figure out what made people happy at work. To most peoples surprise, at the time, the most significant aspect of happiness was working with people you enjoyed working with. Salary, benefits, schedule etc were all lower priorities.
> 
> When choosing a lonely profession, such as at-home composer or consultant, it's easy to get disconnected and feel out of touch. I think communities, such as VI-Control can help with that.



really interesting point. for someone who has full time day job as an engineer i can say that one of the benefits of a day job like this is the people you work with and the human relationships you develop with your colleagues including the fun and laughs. 

i often wondered if i worked as a full time composer around the clock locked away in my man cave every day would i feel as fulfilled? i know i give more time to music than anything else in my life with no guaranteed return so i guess that makes it something i'm really passionate about. but i can also see the possible negative in a full time career as in the possible isolation that might occur and i don't think thats good for anyone's mental state. 

i suppose everyone's situation is different but for me a great goal would be one day be able to go part time in my day job like a 3 day week and spend the rest of the time focusing on the music. 

Danny


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## givemenoughrope (Oct 9, 2016)

If all you are wishing for is a career in music (a range of jobs wider than most) then that's what you'll get. Or you'll fall short and be disappointed or just burn out. I used to want to be a pro saxophonist. That led to study (much outside of my interests), taking any old gig, doubling (or attempting to) and just finding myself in less than inspiring musical situations all the while thinking I was doing the right thing. I was moving so far away from what initially attracted me to it all. I would have been better off painting or doing parkour since they would have been closer to the original mode of creativity. I'd just try or investigate everything in an around music (from teaching to post and further into the tech end) and figure out what things work for you and what doesn't. Completely non-musical work makes up much of it while other jobs outside of music may be closer in some ways.


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## Arbee (Oct 9, 2016)

One way I thought of years ago to try and make sense of my own confused feelings was to ask the question "I have a paintbrush in my hand, am I artist or tradesman?". At that point my brain exploded....


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## rJames (Oct 9, 2016)

When I was a kid I wanted to play in a band. I just assumed that meant that the group got together and worked on music... wrote songs.
One band I was in; all we did were show up for practice and then drive around and try to score some weed (without any money). These were probably the best players I've ever played with. Finally got into club bands...then the Disco era struck and most clubs went to DJs, and the music we had to play was no fun.
Long story short, I finally asked myself, "what the hell am I doing with a bunch of alcoholics at 2AM?"
At 25 I was jobless with no particular prospects. 
Skip ahead many, many years and I consider myself the luckiest man on the planet. Life is good. Back in music.


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## SampleScience (Oct 22, 2016)

scottbuckley said:


> It took a long time to shift my goal posts, to figure out what the hell I was doing. Music was completely wrecked for me, and I felt so naïve, and so very lost. Long story short, I was encouraged by my wife to follow an alternative interest in science all the way through to a PhD in soil/plant science, and I finally feel like I've found the place where I should have been so many years ago.-s



For me it's the opposite, I come from the academic and deeply hated it. I left the university without knowing what to do and decided to producer sample libraries because that's all I could do. I'm now a full time composer/soundeditor/sound designer and couldn't be happier.


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## scottbuckley (Oct 26, 2016)

SampleScience said:


> For me it's the opposite, I come from the academic and deeply hated it. I left the university without knowing what to do and decided to producer sample libraries because that's all I could do. I'm now a full time composer/soundeditor/sound designer and couldn't be happier.


Just goes to show that everyone is different. So glad you found your happy, too! :D


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## adg21 (Nov 10, 2017)

Interesting post.

10 years is a long time. Life can change a lot, as it should. Along with the industry and trends in music and media generally. A lot changed between 1975 and 1985, especially culturally. It is no different today, things have changed enormously in last 10 years, even if you haven't really noticed. I'm glad to hear you moved forward in other ways, shows how versatile you are.

"But isn't music what you really want to do?" I find it very weird when people say that because I work in science and research too. That's a huge disservice to my (very interesting) job. Weird that people can't accept that you can have more than one interest. Glad to hear you got your PhD. Lots of things you can do in life and music is just one of them.


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## Desire Inspires (Jul 9, 2019)

Who is still trying to go full time?


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## jononotbono (Jul 10, 2019)

I am still trying... Which is why I'm moving from the UK to New York next month after accepting a job invitation to be an assistant studio engineer and in-house composer for their studio. Certainly a new path in my life that's for sure!


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## Vardaro (Jul 10, 2019)

Art vs Craft. The Greatest Composers wrote potboilers, but with consummate skill and taste. 

A section violinist partakes of collective emotion. The pleasure is that of honing ones skills in this direction. An occasional solo engagement is the icing on the cake (professionaly speaking) where our violinist can really be him/her self.


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## DANIELE (Jul 10, 2019)

passsacaglia said:


> ... I would dream to just, wake up, take a walk a la Steve Jobs, have a coffee, nice lunch in the sun, write some music in the afternoon, look at beautiful places in the world on Google, write some more music, have a relaxed life as a musician..Getting older has really got me into thinking like what do I want to do in my life, remember you only live once, do what you want etc..



I'm dreaming about this too but it is infact a DREAM, there's no work without stress. I work as an engineer and it leaves a very little time to music, and moreover a very little energy to think and write something. I don't love my actual work as I love music but I think I could be classified as "lucky" about it, especially here in my country.

Music keeps coming to my mind like a river, sometimes less actually, but maybe because I'm very tired...
As I was younger I was thinking about a life in music and composing great scores and so on but then...well...life cames in and I realized that maybe working in the industry will be a living hell for me and my creativity. So I work on some project when I have time but mostly I work and study for myself. I think that life has a right path for everyone of us, as the OP pointed out very well, and often dreams and reality don't go well together.

While I could see myself working in music in the past, now I couldn't, I think that my creativity could die hard. So I think that, unless life brings me in front of a clearer choice, I'll keep music for myself and for the listeners that would like to listen to it.

I think that we could write some kind of rule here: "be afraid of your dreams if you didn't clash them with reality first".


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## CT (Jul 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I am still trying... Which is why I'm moving from the UK to New York next month after accepting a job invitation to be an assistant studio engineer and in-house composer for their studio. Certainly a new path in my life that's for sure!



Congratulations! Glad to hear there are opportunities in New York after all. 

I'm still trying, yes. I'm not good at anything else. Might not even be good at this.


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## VinRice (Jul 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I am still trying... Which is why I'm moving from the UK to New York next month after accepting a job invitation to be an assistant studio engineer and in-house composer for their studio. Certainly a new path in my life that's for sure!



Congrats Jono.


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## jononotbono (Jul 10, 2019)

VinRice said:


> Congrats Jono.



Thanks man! Will have to see what madness this brings!


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## VinRice (Jul 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Thanks man! Will have to see what madness this brings!



New York's a blast and there are plenty of Brits there if you get lonely for Marmite and proper tea. Mind you it changes constantly and it's been a few years...


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## jononotbono (Jul 10, 2019)

VinRice said:


> for Marmite and proper tea.



At least I know you are well informed and have class.


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## VinRice (Jul 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> At least I know you are well informed and have class.


Of course! (Perhaps I should have said _us_ Brits)


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## Eric Hunter (Jul 10, 2019)

miket said:


> Congratulations! Glad to hear there are opportunities in New York after all.
> 
> I'm still trying, yes. I'm not good at anything else. Might not even be good at this.


Don't sell yourself short. It's more about longevity than talent. And not having other options can be a blessing in disguise. The illusion of choice can be paralyzing.


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## Desire Inspires (Jul 10, 2019)

Eric Hunter said:


> Don't sell yourself short. It's more about longevity than talent. And not having other options can be a blessing in disguise. The illusion of choice can be paralyzing.



Yes, it’s a marathon.


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## GtrString (Jul 11, 2019)

Yeah, the inner struggles are real! Great post OP, and good to hear you landed in a nice spot.

Music seems to be the thing you choose, because you cant choose anything else. Its a last resort to stay sane for me, so I cant let music go.

Back in college, when I took classes in film production, it also ruined my illusions about film for many years. I thoroughly enjoyed movies, and suddenly I just couldn’t.

I also left my pursuit of becoming a pro musician, because I hated the bars and the late hours of gigging. I pictured myself older and didnt like where that route led. So the hustle and bustle of music had to go.

But always loved music and I became more interested in writing. I need the intellectual part of music, otherwise I get bored too soon. After the homerecording boom in the late 90s, I realized that I could enjoy music from home, in my own studio, in my own time. Even offline 

Its a great position to be in. I dont depend on any money from music, I dont have a toxic boss, or colleagues with piercing elbows, nor do I need to listen to corporate bullshitters. I can do what I want and enjoy it, and will do it my time out.


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## DANIELE (Jul 11, 2019)

douggibson said:


> Nope, not at all. I think this offers us an insight as to why you are an engineer, and very good one.
> I would have to write for hours to explain, but the short answer is there is no way you could possibly make even 50% of the distinctions of what is "reality first" without a few tour of duties.
> 
> Ok.... without getting into the meaning of life, let me offer a few pragmatic points that I hope can be useful and removed from my personality and how I see the world.
> ...



I hope I understood what you mean correctly and I try to reply.

Someone (more than one person) told me that I'm an anomalous engineer, I'm a creative one that from what I could see it is pretty rare. I'm not saying it is best or worst, only facts...

I cannot (and I don't want to) leave music, I feel it in my head and as you said I spent some of my money in plugins, courses etc...
As some other ones are saying here I'm becaming to feel free in composing music this way, with a stable work and some little time to do the music I want when I want it.

My work needs a good amount of creativity too so I'm not far from where I belong actually, I know life changes and I'm ready to see where it will bring me.
My sentence here don't want to be pessimistic, only real and encouraging instead. We need to live to do music, there is a different path for everyone of us to take our music and bring it with us until we will end our life, I'm ok with mine, I only want to make music, to learn about it as much as I can, because I need it and not because of the money.

I hope you understand what I mean, even if I'm learning to write better in english I still have some limitations.

I agree with most of the things GtrString said.


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## WindcryMusic (Jul 11, 2019)

Music (touring with bands) was my full time job (with one year of interruption) from the age of 17 until about the age of 27. And while it is true that it occasionally felt like work and had its frustrations ... I still always loved it. The one and only reason I didn't (read: couldn't) keep doing it was an injury (resulting from being too eager to help lift a power amp rack out of the truck) that became chronic and made the touring lifestyle impossible, and at the time touring seemed to be the only viable option for me to make a living as a musician (since I wasn't located in an area where studio session work might have been an option).

Since then I've primarily (with a few years of interruptions for various musical efforts) worked in a different field, while spending much of what should have been my free time attempting to mold myself into someone who can do something in music that doesn't require being able to handle the road life. That other career is a better paying one, to be sure, but also has become less and less satisfying with every passing year, to the point where I now can barely stand it and the stress thereof is negatively affecting my health. In fact the only thing that keeps me going now is the prospect of a day, not too far in the future, when I will be able to close out this fallback career forever and spend the remainder of my days making music, whether that be for work or just for myself. And while I accept that attempting to once again do music as a full-time job will have its downsides, based upon my experiences I have no doubt in my mind that it is going to be better for me both physically and emotionally ... especially since any non-work time should finally be actual "free" time again, rather than constantly feeling like I am neglecting one career or the other unless I am working every minute of every day.


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## ghostnote (Jul 14, 2019)

To reflect some words from somebody I really respect:



> *Life isn't about happiness, it's about meaning. *



Music can make you happy, but... yeah...


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