# CSS - Runs Mode!!! (Coming this century, I think)



## I like music (Jan 11, 2021)

EDIT: May 21st - upon recommendation, I have changed the thread title to reflect a timeframe that means that my prediction will definitely come true

I know, we're all excited about CSW, but I imagine that a few people may not have seen this snippet. I feel it merits a new thread, since it can add a substantial enhancement to CSS. To my ears, these runs sound good. In fact, runs were one of the things where I struggled with CSS. Curious to know if it'll be a 'playable runs' type thing (by the MIDI roll it looks like it will) or something else. I know people say that CS2 had a good 'runs' mode so I imagine it is similar technology?


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## Bluemount Score (Jan 11, 2021)

Big fan of the series, however the very fast runs in the Demo sounded only okayish (3:43 onwards) to me - somewhat undefined / washy. Can't judge too early, have to try them out when it's released. I'm assuming it is gonna end up as another switch on the GUI, that activates a specific runs legato.


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## I like music (Jan 11, 2021)

Bluemount Score said:


> Big fan of the series, however the very fast runs in the Demo sounded only okayish (3:43 onwards) to me - somewhat undefined / washy. Can't judge too early, have to try them out when it's released. I'm assuming it is gonna end up as another switch on the GUI, that activates a specific runs legato.


I hear what you mean. The ones before that sounded a bit crisper, with better (less?) blur. It still sounds much better than what I can achieve with them right now. Fingers crossed it'll be a nice addition.


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## Bluemount Score (Jan 11, 2021)

I like music said:


> I hear what you mean. The ones before that sounded a bit crisper, with better (less?) blur. It still sounds much better than what I can achieve with them right now. Fingers crossed it'll be a nice addition.


Yes the ones before sounded nice


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## NeonMediaKJT (Jan 11, 2021)

i am sooooo excited for the runs feature. Did he say when we can expect it? Is it a free update? I wonder if CSSS will have the same update?


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## I like music (Jan 11, 2021)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> i am sooooo excited for the runs feature. Did he say when we can expect it? Is it a free update? I wonder if CSSS will have the same update?








No idea what early 2021 means, but I'd assume within the first 3 or so months?


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## NeonMediaKJT (Jan 11, 2021)

I like music said:


> No idea what early 2021 means, but I'd assume within the first 3 or so months?


Ahh yeah. Probably the first 4 months of the year. One of the things I wish had transferred over from Cinematic Strings 2 was the runs feature, so I'm really glad he's adding it.


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## GtrString (Jan 11, 2021)

This sounds like a really useful feature. I wonder if it will be implemented in the whole series, or only in CSS?


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## Bluemount Score (Jan 11, 2021)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I wonder if CSSS will have the same update?


Hope so too, it would make sense, regarding the first chair / copy & paste consistency approach between CSS and CSSS


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## NeonMediaKJT (Mar 11, 2021)

I just re-watched the video demonstrating the runs mode. Canny wait


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## Casiquire (Mar 11, 2021)

Yeah when does this happen!


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## NeonMediaKJT (Mar 11, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Yeah when does this happen!


Hopefully soon. Looks very versatile from the demo. I wonder if this will be for all the strings not just 1st Violins...


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## I like music (Mar 11, 2021)

I have a feeling it'll happen in March. I cannot say how I know.


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## thorwald (Mar 11, 2021)

Funny you say that, I've always had a feeling that this is coming in March. No idea why.


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## Casiquire (Mar 11, 2021)

Do we have an idea of any other improvements with this update? I'm new to the CSS world so i might have missed some details and discussion


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## muziksculp (Mar 11, 2021)

I would love it if the upcoming updates offered an alternative to the current implementation of the multiple negative delay compensation system, i.e. by offering only one neg-delay-value setting knob, that will work for the whole instrument, 90+% of the time. 

But so far this has not been mentioned by Alex W., so it's just a wishful thought.


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## aka70 (Mar 11, 2021)

For entering notes in the editor it would be the easiest way to just make different patches for the standart articulation (2 patch) and advanced (3 patches). If you play on a keyboard that's good as it is.


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## Casiquire (Mar 11, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I would love it if the upcoming updates offered an alternative to the current implementation of the multiple negative delay compensation system, i.e. by offering only one neg-delay-value setting knob, that will work for the whole instrument, 90+% of the time.
> 
> But so far this has not been mentioned by Alex W., so it's just a wishful thought.


EXACTLY my reason for asking! There has to be a better way of implementing this. I was stunned when I first started using the instrument and realized how half-baked the delay situation is, and how a library with such a huge reputation feels like it's not actually ready for prime time. The devs must realize it and hopefully have something on their radar for making it easier to work with


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## muziksculp (Mar 11, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> EXACTLY my reason for asking! There has to be a better way of implementing this. I was stunned when I first started using the instrument and realized how half-baked the delay situation is, and how a library with such a huge reputation feels like it's not actually ready for prime time. The devs must realize it and hopefully have something on their radar for making it easier to work with


I emailed Alex W. a while back, before CSW was released, and brought up the issue of multiple-neg.delay compensations, and he replied that there will be an update after CSW is released, but he didn't mention any specifics about the update, and what it will offer. 

For now we know that there is a Runs mode that the update offers, but nothing else. Hopefully he didn't ignore the multiple delays detail I menationed, and has some new feature in the upcoming update. 

We shall see.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 11, 2021)

I'm not sure why the current implementation is considered "half baked". It works rather well IMO and you're very clear when programming what is happening, since you use velocity to adjust the legato speed. Different legato speeds will naturally need different delay values - there's no getting around that if you want this level of legato control. It is harder to play live than having a single speed, but there are ways around that. The CSS control panel also makes it very easy to program this and not worry about the delay times.


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## Casiquire (Mar 11, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I'm not sure why the current implementation is considered "half baked". It works rather well IMO and you're very clear when programming what is happening, since you use velocity to adjust the legato speed. Different legato speeds will naturally need different delay values - there's no getting around that if you want this level of legato control. It is harder to play live than having a single speed, but there are ways around that. The CSS control panel also makes it very easy to program this and not worry about the delay times.


It absolutely can be implemented with consistent delay amounts. Just take the longest possible delay and shift everything to that value. Which is exactly what the control panel does. And the fact that there's a popular third party control panel in the first place kind of proves my point.

Here's what I'd love to see to bring it to a complete package. Put an on/off switch on the main interface. When it's off, there's virtually no delay ("Classic legato"). Same samples, the scripting can just cut into them more. When it's on, everything moves to a consistent 330ms delay (which is the largest delay value). Move your entire track forward 330ms. Done.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 11, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> It absolutely can be implemented with consistent delay amounts. Just take the longest possible delay and shift everything to that value. Which is exactly what the control panel does. And the fact that there's a popular third party control panel in the first place kind of proves my point.
> 
> Here's what I'd love to see to bring it to a complete package. Put an on/off switch on the main interface. When it's off, there's virtually no delay ("Classic legato"). Same samples, the scripting can just cut into them more. When it's on, everything moves to a consistent 330ms delay (which is the largest delay value). Move your entire track forward 330ms. Done.


Ah gotcha. You are fine with the delay but just want it consistently regardless of velocity value. Sounds pretty feasible - though not really going to change my usability of the library given the control panel already exists.


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## Casiquire (Mar 11, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Ah gotcha. You are fine with the delay but just want it consistently regardless of velocity value. Sounds pretty feasible - though not really going to change my usability of the library given the control panel already exists.


Sure, but even with the control panel the delay is too long to be playable for me. The solution i mentioned is a very player-friendly way of getting the best of both worlds. Play it in with less than ideal legato but easily switch over to the superior legato sound after the fact, if that makes sense!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 11, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Sure, but even with the control panel the delay is too long to be playable for me. The solution i mentioned is a very player-friendly way of getting the best of both worlds. Play it in with less than ideal legato but easily switch over to the superior legato sound after the fact, if that makes sense!


That makes sense. It is unfortunate the classic legato is not accessible through the main patch at the moment.


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## muziksculp (Mar 11, 2021)

One can also set all the note velocities to a constant value, and set the neg.delay value accordingly.


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## Casiquire (Mar 11, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> One can also set all the note velocities to a constant value, and set the neg.delay value accordingly.


I'm thinking that's how I'll use the library in the meantime: limit my midi input to the fastest legato velocity and then go in after the fact and slow down some transitions


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## Tfis (Mar 12, 2021)

I play the parts with fast articulations then switch them to legato and run this macro:


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## Getsumen (Mar 12, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Sure, but even with the control panel the delay is too long to be playable for me. The solution i mentioned is a very player-friendly way of getting the best of both worlds. Play it in with less than ideal legato but easily switch over to the superior legato sound after the fact, if that makes sense!


Birth of the Trumpets smart delay system is just that. Turn it on for the automatic adjustments and the large delay, turn it off for live playing and recording.

Would be excellent for all the Cinematic Studio stuff


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## I like music (Mar 12, 2021)

Death, taxes and any discussion about CSS eventually ending up about the flipping delays...

Hehe


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Mar 12, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Birth of the Trumpets smart delay system is just that. Turn it on for the automatic adjustments and the large delay, turn it off for live playing and recording.
> 
> Would be excellent for all the Cinematic Studio stuff


But isn't Birth of the Trumpets smart delay system measure based as opposed to time based, meaning the delay will change depending on tempo?


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## Casiquire (Mar 12, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Birth of the Trumpets smart delay system is just that. Turn it on for the automatic adjustments and the large delay, turn it off for live playing and recording.
> 
> Would be excellent for all the Cinematic Studio stuff


Such a perfect example! Yes, that! At that point make the delay a whole five seconds for all I care and have the software perform smarter articulation and dynamic selection. That's where I think things are headed for the "next generation" of samples anyway


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## Tfis (Mar 12, 2021)

Nowadays a plugin should recognize if I'm recording or just playing / playback and therefore adjust the attack times. Even if it sounds not so good when recording.
Something like "Midi look ahead" should be possible, too, where the DAW tells the plugin when the next note starts, for example.


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## RightOnTime (Mar 13, 2021)

Damn, I literally just wrote in another thread how disappointing it was that CSS ditched the runs/live mode from CS2. If they can nail this, it'll be fantastic.


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## I like music (Mar 14, 2021)

RightOnTime said:


> Damn, I literally just wrote in another thread how disappointing it was that CSS ditched the runs/live mode from CS2. If they can nail this, it'll be fantastic.


I reckon we'll know by end of March!


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## yiph2 (Mar 14, 2021)

According to John, there will be an improved legato, fixing the hanging notes, and having no advanced mode for CSS


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## Tremendouz (Mar 14, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> According to John, there will be an improved legato, fixing the hanging notes, and having no advanced mode for CSS


No advanced mode? So will they just make the advanced mode the default? There obviously needs to be a way to access all three legato speeds which is currently only possible with advanced mode

Edit: or did I miss a reference here? I recall hearing of this legendary "John" in the CSW thread 😄


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## yiph2 (Mar 14, 2021)

Tremendouz said:


> No advanced mode? So will they just make the advanced mode the default? There obviously needs to be a way to access all three legato speeds which is currently only possible with advanced mode
> 
> Edit: or did I miss a reference here? I recall hearing of this legendary "John" in the CSW thread 😄


The delay will be the same as standard mode. And John is the only customer support guy (with Alex of course)


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## NeonMediaKJT (Mar 14, 2021)

I don't get why they'd remove the advanced mode...


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## Casiquire (Mar 14, 2021)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I don't get why they'd remove the advanced mode...


I'd wait for more details. I think they know it's a unique selling point for the library


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## GingerMaestro (Mar 22, 2021)

Has anyone has a recent communication with John or Alex regarding a timeline for the CSS or CSW updates ? Don’t want to bother them as I’m sure they have better things to do than answering the same old questions


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## muziksculp (Mar 29, 2021)

Hi,

We are almost in April. 

Any updates/news about the CSS update, providing Runs feature, and maybe new Legato implementation ? 

Thanks.


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## mybadmemory (Apr 10, 2021)

Looking forward to an updated legato implementation to finally pull the trigger on the CSS series! A switch between no or minimum delay for recording, and maximum but consistent delay for playback would be fantastic!


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## AEF (Apr 10, 2021)

Would love a more controllable vibrato....and thats really all i can think of bc CSS is that solid IMO.


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## Rob Elliott (Apr 10, 2021)

AEF said:


> Would love a more controllable vibrato....and thats really all i can think of bc CSS is that solid IMO.


It (CSS) can control vibrato now (just not CSSS - smoothly)


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## AEF (Apr 10, 2021)

Rob Elliott said:


> It (CSS) can control vibrato now (just not CSSS - smoothly)


key word: “more”. its still an on off essentially.


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## Malo (Apr 10, 2021)

AEF said:


> key word: “more”. its still an on off essentially.


How would they technically go about doing controllable and seemless vibrato control in a convincing way without recording all relevant patches all over again?

I am asking because, to my knowledge, I don't have any string section libraries with (artificially created) seemless vibrato control. I don't know if I have heard any, either. I'm no technical expert, though.

Re-recording IMO seems unnecessarily expensive. CSS is already arguably one of the best string libraries out there. The included (lovely) vibrato was one of the many reasons I bought the library when it first came out. But, hey - I appreciate we all have different needs and taste. 

I'm just curious.


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## Sovereign (Apr 11, 2021)

Malo said:


> How would they technically go about doing controllable and seemless vibrato control in a convincing way without recording all relevant patches all over again?


They don't need to. The crossfade between vibrato and non vibrato is hampered by the lack of recorded NV intervals. They would need to record and implement only these to improve the crossfade tremendously.


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## Malo (Apr 11, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> They don't need to. The crossfade between vibrato and non vibrato is hampered by the lack of recorded NV intervals. They would need to record and implement only these to improve the crossfade tremendously.


Aha! I see! Thank you @Sovereign ! 

Still, that seems like quite an expensive thing to produce for Alex and his team? Would it ever be financially worthwhile for such a relatively "minor", little requested feature?


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## Sovereign (Apr 11, 2021)

Malo said:


> Aha! I see! Thank you @Sovereign !
> 
> Still, that seems like quite an expensive thing to produce for Alex and his team? Would it ever be financially worthwhile for such a relatively "minor", little requested feature?


The lack of good vibrato control, and not being able to properly dial the vibrato back overall, are some of the biggest complaints levelled against CSS. With that in mind I'm not sure this would only be a minor requested feature. In the end it is up to Alex.


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## Malo (Apr 11, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> The lack of good vibrato control, and not being able to properly dial the vibrato back overall, are some of the biggest complaints levelled against CSS. With that in mind I'm not sure this would only be a minor requested feature. In the end it is up to Alex.


I apologize! I really had no idea. I have mostly read posts where users are frustrated with different latency values between legato modes. 

I guess my lack of awareness to this issue goes back to me being so happy with the amount of the recorded vibrato in CSS. Thanks again for enlightening me!

"I was way off!" (Dumb and Dumber)


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## Tremendouz (Apr 11, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> The lack of good vibrato control, and not being able to properly dial the vibrato back overall, are some of the biggest complaints levelled against CSS. With that in mind I'm not sure this would only be a minor requested feature. In the end it is up to Alex.


You *can* dial back the vibrato, I find it to be very nice near the bottom (but not so much that it gets turned off completely) but it could be more gradual


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## Sovereign (Apr 11, 2021)

Tremendouz said:


> You *can* dial back the vibrato, I find it to be very nice near the bottom (but not so much that it gets turned off completely) but it could be more gradual


I am well aware that you can dial back the vibrato to a degree, but this is only partially effective. The vibrato setting has no effect at all on the interval itself (the first two or three seconds whenever you play a new note) as there are no NV intervals to crossfade/blend into. And all those intervals have a very strong vibrato, before it crossfades into a sustain. I personally don't go lower than 65-70.


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## Rob Elliott (Apr 11, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> I am well aware that you can dial back the vibrato to a degree, but this is only partially effective. The vibrato setting has no effect at all on the interval itself (the first two or three seconds whenever you play a new note) as there are no NV intervals to crossfade/blend into. And all those intervals have a very strong vibrato, before it crossfades into a sustain. I personally don't go lower than 65-70.


Yep same here - lower than 70 and the legato transition suffers. For me, I 'live' around 100 or so and only go all the way to 127 at the emotionally peak moments. Of course once the legato transition has been played you can successfully feather it to "0".


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## Tremendouz (Apr 11, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> I am well aware that you can dial back the vibrato to a degree, but this is only partially effective. The vibrato setting has no effect at all on the interval itself (the first two or three seconds whenever you play a new note) as there are no NV intervals to crossfade/blend into. And all those intervals have a very strong vibrato, before it crossfades into a sustain. I personally don't go lower than 65-70.


If I remember correctly there are NV intervals that happen if CC2 is at 0 but if it's above that, it'll play the same transitions with quite strong vibrato as it would when vibrato is maxed out.


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## Gingerbread (Apr 11, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Looking forward to an updated legato implementation to finally pull the trigger on the CSS series! A switch between no or minimum delay for recording, and maximum but consistent delay for playback would be fantastic!


I mean, if Alex does that, great....but the basic workflow for that already exists. CSS comes with 'classic patches' which are highly playable and have no legato delay. Just play the part in with the Classic patch, then copy it over to the standard patch. Done!


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## mybadmemory (Apr 11, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> I mean, if Alex does that, great....but the basic workflow for that already exists. CSS comes with 'classic patches' which are highly playable and have no legato delay. Just play the part in with the Classic patch, then copy it over to the standard patch. Done!


Yeah, except that the advanced legato doesn't have consistent delay yet, but varying between three different ones.


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## Gingerbread (Apr 11, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Yeah, except that the advanced legato doesn't have consistent delay yet, but varying between three different ones.


Yes and no. If you want consistent delay, just set all notes to the same velocity. All the transitions (and delays) will be the same.

But if you are saying you want slow, medium, and fast legato transitions, AND they should all have the same delay, then you would destroy what makes CSS legato transitions sound so good. At that point, you're right back to the less-great legatos of other developers.

The point is, there is already a perfectly good workflow for CSS, especially if you include free 3rd-party plugins which do all the work in compensating for the differing delays.


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## Tremendouz (Apr 11, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> But if you are saying you want slow, medium, and fast legato transitions, AND they should all have the same delay, then you would destroy what makes CSS legato transitions sound so good. At that point, you're right back to the less-great legatos of other developers.


Not necessarily, a lot of people have been suggesting a system where all transitions are using the highest delay (300ms ish?), meaning the fast transitions are artificially delayed so that you can quntize all notes the same way.

EDIT: I'd also argue having it included in the library would be better than requiring the user to dabble with 3rd party scripts


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## Gingerbread (Apr 11, 2021)

Tremendouz said:


> Not necessarily, a lot of people have been suggesting a system where all transitions are using the highest delay (300ms ish?), meaning the fast transitions are artificially delayed so that you can quntize all notes the same way.
> 
> EDIT: I'd also argue having it included in the library would be better than requiring the user to dabble with 3rd party scripts


Perhaps. I'm not sure that would make CSS better or worse, necessarily, just different. With the workflow I have with CSS, I don't think I'd see any efficiency gains; it would simply be a different approach.

Mainly, I don't see any of this as a reason to hold off on buying CSS. It's perfectly workable now, and if Alex makes some changes later, then all the better!


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## mybadmemory (Apr 11, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> Perhaps. I'm not sure that would make CSS better or worse, necessarily, just different. With the workflow I have with CSS, I don't think I'd see any efficiency gains; it would simply be a different approach.
> 
> Mainly, I don't see any of this as a reason to hold off on buying CSS. It's perfectly workable now, and if Alex makes some changes later, then all the better!


Sure. Not necessarily better for existing users that have already learned its workflow and found ways around it with plugins or techniques that are by now engrained in their reflexes. 

But surely for new users, not having to learn or use any additional tools or techniques but simply have something that works in a simple way out of the box would be better.

A switch for recording / playback with no delay / consistent maximum delay would completely remove the need for any third party scripts or moving of individual notes. The entire track could be set to the same consistent track delay and you could use all legato speeds without having to do anything more. Simple!

I’m not holding off on CSS itself, I’m holding off on the rest of the series. Hoping for this to change someday!


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## philthevoid (Apr 14, 2021)

Don't get too excited, I might be wrong, but...
YouTube notified me that something was new on the Cinematic Studio Series channel yesterday and when I went, there was nothing. It feels like maybe a video was added then immediately removed.
CSS runs coming this week maybe? :O


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## Rob Elliott (Apr 14, 2021)

philthevoid said:


> Don't get too excited, I might be wrong, but...
> YouTube notified me that something was new on the Cinematic Studio Series channel yesterday and when I went, there was nothing. It feels like maybe a video was added then immediately removed.
> CSS runs coming this week maybe? :O


---oh, that's just cruel......


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## I like music (Apr 15, 2021)

philthevoid said:


> Don't get too excited, I might be wrong, but...
> YouTube notified me that something was new on the Cinematic Studio Series channel yesterday and when I went, there was nothing. It feels like maybe a video was added then immediately removed.
> CSS runs coming this week maybe? :O


I had heard that they were planning on releasing by end of March. I don't imagine that we're far, given that we've already heard it in action etc.

Fingers crossed it drops really soon. Good spot!


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## GingerMaestro (Apr 15, 2021)

I understand they are in the final stages of getting the CSW fixes/updates ready. Once that is done, Alex will turn his hand back to the CSS update. Unfortunately I think it’s going to be a while yet...


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## MA-Simon (May 14, 2021)

Please let this one not be CSW like wait. It sounded so good then.


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## I like music (May 14, 2021)

I was told March!


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## RMH (May 14, 2021)

We’re waiting for!


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## muziksculp (May 14, 2021)




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## Trash Panda (May 14, 2021)




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## lettucehat (May 14, 2021)

I try not to join in on pestering developers about upcoming releases, but since this is not an official thread... just wanna say... with all the new string libraries coming out, an update coupled with the typical BF discount would be killer. For some people. Who knows who they may be.


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## I like music (May 14, 2021)

lettucehat said:


> I try not to join in on pestering developers about upcoming releases, but since this is not an official thread... just wanna say... with all the new string libraries coming out, an update coupled with the typical BF discount would be killer. For some people. Who knows who they may be.


A runs mode for CSS would just be a wonderful addition! I assume it therefore means that we'll have transitions that don't have that 'vibrato' lead-in, and therefore might be spliced into the non-vib samples? Could therefore improve the library in other aspects than just runs!


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## Grizzlymv (May 14, 2021)

I like music said:


> I was told March!


well, technically you're still good. March is 10 months away. It will come faster than you think.


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## NeonMediaKJT (May 14, 2021)

I like music said:


> A runs mode for CSS would just be a wonderful addition! I assume it therefore means that we'll have transitions that don't have that 'vibrato' lead-in, and therefore might be spliced into the non-vib samples? Could therefore improve the library in other aspects than just runs!


i would love this!


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## Rob Elliott (May 14, 2021)

Grizzlymv said:


> well, technically you're still good. March is 10 months away. It will come faster than



sick and wrong.


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## toddkreuz (May 14, 2021)

i dont usually care about getting new stuff or updates much, but i
am REALLY excited for this one.


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## muziksculp (May 14, 2021)

CSS Runs Mode coming early 2021. Well we are not too far from half-year point. What's early these days ?


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## RMH (May 14, 2021)

muziksculp said:


>


cute!😆


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## purple (May 14, 2021)

I think it will either release soon, or a later than that.


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## Rob Elliott (May 15, 2021)

purple said:


> I think it will either release soon, or a later than that.


"You're either very smart or very dumb"

(movie trivia....?)


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## pawelmorytko (May 15, 2021)

purple said:


> I think it will either release soon, or a later than that.


CSS is definitely one of the string libraries of all time.


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## I like music (May 20, 2021)

I have a feeling that the runs update will contain a runs feature.


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## purple (May 20, 2021)

With every day that passes, we get a day closer to the release date being "soon"


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## I like music (May 20, 2021)

purple said:


> With every day that passes, we get a day closer to the release date being "soon"


Alex Wallbank is indeed the man who created the library!


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## muziksculp (May 20, 2021)

@I like music ,

Maybe time to change this part of the topic title "Coming early 2021"


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## Trash Panda (May 20, 2021)

There are still -50 days left in Q1. Let's be patient.


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## Rob Elliott (May 20, 2021)

Of course I'd use it yesterday - but Alex will make us all happy - of that I am sure!


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## NeonMediaKJT (May 20, 2021)

did someone say it will be q1 of this year the update?


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## constaneum (May 20, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @I like music ,
> 
> Maybe time to change this part of the topic title "Coming early 2021"


Quarter 2 - change it to "It's Coming...used to be early 2021" 
Quarter 3 - change it to "Oh wow...seems like 2021"
Quarter 4 - change it to "Gee....i still hope it's 2021"
Quarter 1 2022 - change it "that's it...COMING SOON"


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## I like music (May 21, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @I like music ,
> 
> Maybe time to change this part of the topic title "Coming early 2021"


"Coming ... at some point in time" ?


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## NeonMediaKJT (Jun 12, 2021)

after being unsatisfied with my attempts at runs in a recent project, i keep watching the string runs in the woodwind video. Hopefully gets updated soon.


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## muziksculp (Jun 12, 2021)

Did anyone email Alex to find out the status of the update ?


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## Casiquire (Jun 12, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Did anyone email Alex to find out the status of the update ?


... Isn't that your job?!


----------



## muziksculp (Jun 12, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> ... Isn't that your job?!


LOL.

OK, No Problem. I will email him, and see what he says, given that the only other options we have is to wait, wait, or speculate.

EDIT: I sent them a request for some feedback on the upcoming Update/s release status .


----------



## Casiquire (Jun 12, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> LOL.
> 
> OK, No Problem. I will email him, and see what he says, given that the only other options we have is to wait, wait, or speculate.
> 
> EDIT: I sent them a request for some feedback on the upcoming Update/s release status .


I'm being playful in jest, but i really am excited for the update and want to know when we'll get it


----------



## muziksculp (Jun 12, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I'm being playful in jest, but i really am excited for the update and want to know when we'll get it


I know, but I think it's about time someone contacted them to ask about the update. Thanks for giving the little push to do it.


----------



## muziksculp (Jun 15, 2021)

Hi,

So far no reply from Alex W./Cinematic Studio Series. about the Runs Update inquiry I emailed on Saturday June-12th. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## tim727 (Jun 15, 2021)

Contacting Alex and expecting a release estimate that you can actually bank on is like asking an 8-ball "Will I win the lottery next time I play?" and believing the answer when it says 'yes'.


----------



## muziksculp (Jun 15, 2021)

tim727 said:


> Contacting Alex and expecting a release estimate that you can actually bank on is like asking an 8-ball "Will I win the lottery next time I play?" and believing the answer when it says 'yes'.


LOL... Well at least I gave it a try. 

Who knows they might reply to my inquiry in 2024 

Back to waiting.


----------



## muziksculp (Jun 15, 2021)

Hi,

OK, I did get a reply from Alex W. a few days ago, but it was in my Spam email folder, I didn't expect it to be in the Spam folder, and thought there was no reply yet. (My fault for not checking my Spam folder). Sorry.

Anyways.. I will give you a fast update :

We should be expecting the CSW update very soon. Alex W. will be posting about it on this forum, and emails will be sent to library owners informing them about it as well. 

He told me there will be a new Low Latency Legato mode that will be in CSW, and will translate nicely into all his other libraries.  

The CSS Update is still a few months away, so we need to wait a bit longer for that one. He is adding a few more improvements besides the runs mode. So, the longer wait will surely pay off. 

Exciting times ahead. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## I like music (Jun 15, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> OK, I did get a reply from Alex W. a few days ago, but it was in my Spam email folder, I didn't expect it to be in the Spam folder, and thought there was no reply yet. (My fault for not checking my Spam folder). Sorry.
> 
> ...


Thank you! We should just all pay you to professionally chase all the library developers! You know, sort of an elected representative that does the people's will, hehe.

I'm super excited by the "other improvements" in CSS + the runs. Runs in particular, because it implies that there will be a non-vib transition of sorts which MIGHT work in non-runs contexts too.


----------



## Casiquire (Jun 16, 2021)

A few MONTHS? It'll be 2022. I thought it was supposed to be first quarter this year 😔 ah well. I'm curious what else they're adding


----------



## constaneum (Jun 16, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> A few MONTHS? It'll be 2022. I thought it was supposed to be first quarter this year 😔 ah well. I'm curious what else they're adding


I was anticipating CSW first coz previously there's mentioned of the Ensemble patch which will be released in the update. So I believe that will come with the CSW low latency mode


----------



## Casiquire (Jun 16, 2021)

constaneum said:


> I was anticipating CSW first coz previously there's mentioned of the Ensemble patch which will be released in the update. So I believe that will come with the CSW low latency mode


I figured CSW first but i don't keep up with CSW so as far as i knew their update already happened lol


----------



## I like music (Jul 12, 2021)

I think the CSW update has been out a few days, now.

Which can only one thing. CSS Runs speculation can begin again!


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 12, 2021)

I like music said:


> I think the CSW update has been out a few days, now.
> 
> Which can only one thing. CSS Runs speculation can begin again!


The last email I got from Alex W. (on June 14th), he mentioned he is working on CSS full time, and adding new features, and tweaks to improve it further. Plus it will get the new low-latency mode. But he said it is a few months away. Not sure what a few months away will translate to.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 12, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> The last email I got from Alex W. (on June 14th), he mentioned he is working on CSS full time, and adding new features, and tweaks to improve it further. Plus it will get the new low-latency mode. But he said it is a few months away. Not sure what a few months away will translate to.


Like three years i think


----------



## I like music (Oct 27, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Like three years i think


Hehe we were telling jokes about the release date. But we ain't all that far from Q1 2022!!!

I wonder if we might not see it this year, after all...


----------



## Trash Panda (Oct 27, 2021)

@Alex W updates and releases are never early, nor late. 

They arrive precisely when they mean to.


----------



## lettucehat (Oct 27, 2021)

At least wait for BF before pronouncing it dead in 2021, seems like an obvious time to combine the discount with the big update.


----------



## Paul Jelfs (Oct 27, 2021)

Oh YEH forgot about these. Maybe Alex decided to do them for the WW, Brass at the same time , and is saving them for the BF deal etc .

On a slightly , but not really, related note - I wish more companies would include Dorico playback maps, like VSL does , for their instruments. 

I think that would help a load of composers and save time


----------



## Casiquire (Oct 27, 2021)

I like music said:


> Hehe we were telling jokes about the release date. But we ain't all that far from Q1 2022!!!
> 
> I wonder if we might not see it this year, after all...


I've been much happier since I've taken the "it'll come when it comes" approach with samples and just lived in the moment. What exists *now*? What will help my music *today*? If you think about it, we could easily never get that update. We might never get the Berlin series in SINE. The only thing we can be sure of is what's available right now, and that's really all we should be using to make our decisions. Devs often take months or years longer than they estimate, so I've quit worrying and quit holding it against them and quit being impatient. Why should i be impatient and anxious about something I've never even experienced? Life is short, everyone. Make some music


----------



## lettucehat (Oct 27, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I've been much happier since I've taken the "it'll come when it comes" approach with samples and just lived in the moment. What exists *now*? What will help my music *today*? If you think about it, we could easily never get that update. We might never get the Berlin series in SINE. The only thing we can be sure of is what's available right now, and that's really all we should be using to make our decisions. Devs often take months or years longer than they estimate, so I've quit worrying and quit holding it against them and quit being impatient. Why should i be impatient and anxious about something I've never even experienced? Life is short, everyone. Make some music


This and building the best template with what you currently have are key to realizing how little you need the next best thing around the corner. I also appreciate companies that have one or two predictable sales a year and generous loyalty discounts (ahem, Cinematic Studio Series..) because it gives you ample time to evaluate if you really need the product, the discount isn't FOMO-level dramatic, and you aren't punished for not buying them all at once. When there are unpredictable sales it actually pushes back my interest because I always wonder if a random sale is imminent. OT's NI bundles, SINE bundles, and even that voucher last year have me constantly wondering if they are the minimal sales company of yesteryear or about to have a blowout, from day to day. I end up getting less from them because it's always wait and see. Anyway, buy CSS, update in 2021 or no.


----------



## Casiquire (Oct 27, 2021)

lettucehat said:


> This and building the best template with what you currently have are key to realizing how little you need the next best thing around the corner. I also appreciate companies that have one or two predictable sales a year and generous loyalty discounts (ahem, Cinematic Studio Series..) because it gives you ample time to evaluate if you really need the product, the discount isn't FOMO-level dramatic, and you aren't punished for not buying them all at once. When there are unpredictable sales it actually pushes back my interest because I always wonder if a random sale is imminent. OT's NI bundles, SINE bundles, and even that voucher last year have me constantly wondering if they are the minimal sales company of yesteryear or about to have a blowout, from day to day. I end up getting less from them because it's always wait and see. Anyway, buy CSS, update in 2021 or no.


I agree with just about all of this. OT sales are still uncommon, and SINE bundles really don't play against their minimal discount policy. They're fairly consistent and predictable. Apparently they have a good BF deal every year too, like in 2019 a similar set of libraries was 40% off.

And call me jaded but i think CSS is overrated. It's a very good library, but not the first library to reach for. But i do love the company and they have the right attitude, with their crossgrade discounts and infrequent sales. I think they're also pretty much BF-only


----------



## clisma (Oct 27, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> And call me jaded but i think CSS is overrated.


Jaded.


----------



## WindcryMusic (Oct 27, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Life is short, everyone. Make some music


How can I possibly do that when I’m so busy downloading and installing new sample libraries in order to make music … someday? Come on, be sensible!


----------



## muziksculp (Oct 27, 2021)

They have a lot on their plate : 

Release Updates for : CSS, CSSS, CSB, CSW 
New Library Releases : CSP 

I think they might be trying to get all of the above out this year.... tic-toc..tic-toc...


----------



## Casiquire (Oct 27, 2021)

clisma said:


> Jaded.


It's still overrated 😛


----------



## I like music (Oct 28, 2021)

Absolutely fair points. Funniest part is, I don't even know how to write runs properly, compositionally 

But you know, once it is released, I'll be twice the composer I am today.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Oct 28, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> It's still overrated 😛


I don't think so. There still isn't another string library as consistent or as emotive.


----------



## Casiquire (Oct 28, 2021)

I like music said:


> Absolutely fair points. Funniest part is, I don't even know how to write runs properly, compositionally
> 
> But you know, once it is released, I'll be twice the composer I am today.


As far as runs, your safest bet is to use scales. Players practice scales for years, so when you use them in a piece, players recognize them and know exactly how to play them immediately. And even though it's easy for them, people watching or listening find it very impressive, and who doesn't like impressing people with something that *looks* hard?

[Let's not take that one out of context]



NeonMediaKJT said:


> I don't think so. There still isn't another string library as consistent or as emotive.


It doesn't always want to cut through a mix, the emotion only plays well in certain contexts, and the inconsistent delays make it a pain to work with. Though if they were to fix the delay time to a single consistent amount I'd probably use it a lot more. I think it's the ideal blending library, much like Vista. it can impart movement and warmth


----------



## Evans (Oct 28, 2021)

Sometimes, I listen to CSS and think, wow, what an amazing accomplishment.

Sometimes, I listen to CSS and think, wow, how did they sample legato transitions for this swarm of bees? What an amazing accomplishment.

*How *it's used is incredibly important. The quality of the writer (such as AKD, on the highly capable end) seems to matter a lot, especially when using all sections. The noise can build up fast, otherwise. Management of dynamics seems to be crucial.


----------



## X-Bassist (Oct 28, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> It doesn't always want to cut through a mix, the emotion only plays well in certain contexts, and the inconsistent delays make it a pain to work with. Though if they were to fix the delay time to a single consistent amount I'd probably use it a lot more. I think it's the ideal blending library, much like Vista. it can impart movement and warmth


Also, does anyone have the issue of notes cutting off With CSS? Seems like everytime I pull it out it works for a few seconds then starts sounding weird. I’ve waited for updates, hoping each one will fix it, but no. I always end up switching to another library in frustration. No other library does this to me. And CSB works fine. But I won’t buy another one (CSS or CSW) until I can play CSS without cutoff notes and legato issues.


----------



## Geocranium (Oct 28, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> As far as runs, your safest bet is to use scales. Players practice scales for years, so when you use them in a piece, players recognize them and know exactly how to play them immediately. And even though it's easy for them, people watching or listening find it very impressive, and who doesn't like impressing people with something that *looks* hard?


This to me is the magic of orchestration and why I think it's so important to learn. To me, orchestration is finding a way to optimize human players to achieve impressive results easily. Know what players are capable of, what they're practiced in, and what they're really good at, and use that knowledge to write music that's way more interesting.


----------



## I like music (Oct 28, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> As far as runs, your safest bet is to use scales. Players practice scales for years, so when you use them in a piece, players recognize them and know exactly how to play them immediately. And even though it's easy for them, people watching or listening find it very impressive, and who doesn't like impressing people with something that *looks* hard?
> 
> [Let's not take that one out of context]
> 
> ...


Great!

Regarding CSS, my only kind of issue with them (even though I love love love them) is that they seem to somehow _always_ be further back than the rest of my orchestra, no matter what I do. And compared to a lot of reference tracks I like, they lack that "zing" a little bit. A good example of what I mean is if you compare HWS cellos to their cellos. HWS also felt like they were a bit further back in the hall (I only have Gold) but yeah, cutting through a mix is the area where I sometimes wish I had a different tone. (Opposite problem with my SM strings lol)


----------



## TomaeusD (Oct 28, 2021)

Seeing all this sudden post activity got me excited.  It's like the hype comes in waves and every time we get drenched by expectation and tears.
@I like music - I trust you will change the thread title when the time comes.


----------



## Rob Elliott (Oct 28, 2021)

ideal BF scenario: CSW, CSS updates and release of CSP. Yep.


----------



## clisma (Oct 28, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> Also, does anyone have the issue of notes cutting off With CSS? Seems like everytime I pull it out it works for a few seconds then starts sounding weird. I’ve waited for updates, hoping each one will fix it, but no. I always end up switching to another library in frustration. No other library does this to me. And CSB works fine. But I won’t buy another one (CSS or CSW) until I can play CSS without cutoff notes and legato issues.


Haven't seen this, sorry you're having issues preventing you from using it. If anything, in Logic I have the opposite problem of notes ringing out. Solved by simply moving forward or back by one bar using the key shortcut, so no big deal to me. Have you contacted support?


----------



## Collywobbles (Nov 29, 2021)

I like music said:


> Great!
> 
> Regarding CSS, my only kind of issue with them (even though I love love love them) is that they seem to somehow _always_ be further back than the rest of my orchestra, no matter what I do. And compared to a lot of reference tracks I like, they lack that "zing" a little bit. A good example of what I mean is if you compare HWS cellos to their cellos. HWS also felt like they were a bit further back in the hall (I only have Gold) but yeah, cutting through a mix is the area where I sometimes wish I had a different tone. (Opposite problem with my SM strings lol)


Quick question, have you tried doubling CSS with CSSS? It does add a touch of life and clarity, so maybe that's what you're missing. Also try and play around with the mic positions if you haven't already!


----------



## I like music (Nov 29, 2021)

Collywobbles said:


> Quick question, have you tried doubling CSS with CSSS? It does add a touch of life and clarity, so maybe that's what you're missing. Also try and play around with the mic positions if you haven't already!


If you have some spare dollars you could send my way, then I could try this and report back on whether it helped :D

CSSS is definitely on the list, for this very reason, but probably won't be able to grab until at least end of next year!


----------



## Collywobbles (Nov 29, 2021)

I like music said:


> If you have some spare dollars you could send my way, then I could try this and report back on whether it helped :D
> 
> CSSS is definitely on the list, for this very reason, but probably won't be able to grab until at least end of next year!


Gotcha, negative on the spare dollars, besides my Aussie dollars are basically monopoly money so they wouldn't help much anyway.

So for a more budget friendly solution - try leaning much harder on the close mics (+ verb) as opposed to the mains/room. I know someone who does this and gets fantastic results.


----------



## I like music (Nov 29, 2021)

Collywobbles said:


> Gotcha, negative on the spare dollars, besides my Aussie dollars are basically monopoly money so they wouldn't help much anyway.
> 
> So for a more budget friendly solution - try leaning much harder on the close mics (+ verb) as opposed to the mains/room. I know someone who does this and gets fantastic results.


Heh. As it happens I just soloed close mics and applied my reverb and they sound great! 

Will try to bring some room back in but my RAM is limited. This is already much better though.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 29, 2021)

Updates ?


----------



## Collywobbles (Nov 29, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Updates ?


Ah yes, sorry about that - I realise that replying to this thread might have caused some excitement immediately followed by disappointment!


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 1, 2021)

Anyone know if buying the Piano counts for the discount on the following Purchased CS instruments?


----------



## RMH (Dec 1, 2021)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Anyone know if buying the Piano counts for the discount on the following Purchased CS instruments?


All instruments are applicable.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 1, 2021)

RMH said:


> All instruments are applicable.


Thank you body!


----------



## NoamL (Dec 1, 2021)

Pretty sure that's not true!


----------



## AMBi (Dec 1, 2021)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Anyone know if buying the Piano counts for the discount on the following Purchased CS instruments?


If you own the piano only you don’t get a discount on following products.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 1, 2021)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Anyone know if buying the Piano counts for the discount on the following Purchased CS instruments?


I am pretty sure it's a one-way street on the Piano for discounts. Purchase a big library, get the discount on the piano, but not vice-versa.


----------



## NoamL (Dec 1, 2021)

Confirmed from the webpage. See below. 

anyone who wants to get into the CSO lineup I recommend buying CSS, see if you like it, and then "upgrading" to CSB + CSW at discounted prices! I believe you can also get CS2 at discount.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 1, 2021)

AMBi said:


> If you own the piano only you don’t get a discount on following products.


Oh s***! Too late. I guess it's a good piano right?

Thanks guys.


----------



## lettucehat (Dec 1, 2021)

Getting it along with CSS is the only way to get the piano half off, right? Not even CSW or CSB will trigger that?

Edit: Nevermind, missed a post that explained it.


----------



## NoamL (Dec 1, 2021)

It is a good piano, at least


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 1, 2021)

lettucehat said:


> Getting it along with CSS is the only way to get the piano half off, right? Not even CSW or CSB will trigger that?
> 
> Edit: Nevermind, missed a post that explained it.


Any of the major libraries will trigger the half price CSP offer at checkout.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 1, 2021)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Oh s***! Too late. I guess it's a good piano right?
> 
> Thanks guys.


It's a lovely piano.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 1, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> It's a lovely piano.


Thanks. I'm sure it is. I could cancel but i figured It'll probably endup being a very useful and possibly a go to piano knowing these guys so...


----------



## AMBi (Dec 1, 2021)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Thanks. I'm sure it is. I could cancel but i figured It'll probably endup being a very useful and possibly a go to piano knowing these guys so...


If you haven’t downloaded it than I’m sure you can get a refund if you feel the need to weigh your options since you wanted the crossgrade.

Don’t own it myself but it sounds pretty great though.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 1, 2021)

AMBi said:


> If you haven’t downloaded it than I’m sure you can get a refund if you feel the need to weigh your options since you wanted the crossgrade.
> 
> Don’t own it myself but it sounds pretty great though.


Yea i might actually because i do have to weigh my options as you say. I'd like to get it but i have so many of those now in Komplete Ult. alone etc.. I should probably ask for a refund. That would be the reasonable thing to do. Don't like the idea on bothering them with that but i don't have the lusury not to either. Will listen to demos/reviews 1st. Thanks AMBi and everyone. Except for you RMH.


----------



## BassClef (Dec 1, 2021)

I got lucky... after emailing back and forth with Alex about his library (over a year ago and long before woodwinds) I decided to buy it all at once... strings, strings solo and brass, so he gave me the piano for free! I rarely use it since my “go to” pianos are Noir and Pianoteq.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 1, 2021)

I never use their Piano, It's OK, but nothing I would brag about.


----------



## RMH (Dec 2, 2021)

BassClef said:


> I got lucky... after emailing back and forth with Alex about his library (over a year ago and long before woodwinds) ) I decided to buy it all... strings, strings solo and brass, so he gave me the piano for free!


very nice!


----------



## clisma (Dec 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I never use their Piano, It's OK, but nothing I would brag about.


Agreed. Right up to the moment when you use it in full orchestral arrangements with the rest of the series. It fits better than far more expensive options for me.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2021)

I have a feeling we might not get the updates this century.


----------



## I like music (Dec 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I have a feeling we might not get the updates this century.


Yeah, reckon Q1 2021 (which is what they said) was definitely a stretch haha.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2021)

I like music said:


> Yeah, reckon Q1 2021 (which is what they said) was definitely a stretch haha.


Your thread's title perfectly describes the scenario so far.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 2, 2021)

Regarding the runs mode, do we know if it'll be like the one in CS2? If so, how did that work? Was it just a patch blending trills and fast legato? Always sounded very good in the demos I heard.


----------



## Aitcpiano (Dec 2, 2021)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Regarding the runs mode, do we know if it'll be like the one in CS2? If so, how did that work? Was it just a patch blending trills and fast legato? Always sounded very good in the demos I heard.


Think it is planned to be similar to CSW runs. Think their is also going to be lower latency legato. Non vibrato legato, and improved mic mix. I've been looking forward to the update for quite some time now so hoping it is not that far of.


----------



## Saxer (Dec 2, 2021)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Regarding the runs mode, do we know if it'll be like the one in CS2? If so, how did that work? Was it just a patch blending trills and fast legato? Always sounded very good in the demos I heard.


I think it was staccatos with half note trills.


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 2, 2021)

Would it kick in automatically above a certain speed?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 2, 2021)

Aitcpiano said:


> Think it is planned to be similar to CSW runs. Think their is also going to be lower latency legato. Non vibrato legato, and improved mic mix. I've been looking forward to the update for quite some time now so hoping it is not that far of.


Non-vibrato legato would be massive and make it more consistent with CSSS.


----------



## mybadmemory (Jan 28, 2022)

Runs, anyone? 😬


----------



## Bluemount Score (Jan 28, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> Runs, anyone? 😬


No, but better than "Run, everyone!"

Luckily this century is still ongoing


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Jan 28, 2022)

Get down!


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 28, 2022)

Maybe they are Implementing Lookahead to fix the crappy multi-delay system.

I don't think they are just adding a runs feature to CSS.


----------



## filipjonathan (Jan 28, 2022)

I gave up on their runs mode really. I'm looking forward to the TSS runs mode they promised, hopefully coming soon.


----------



## I like music (Jan 28, 2022)

Damn, here we are a year later. I have a feeling they will be released one day in the future.


----------



## filipjonathan (Jan 28, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> You can make some pretty good runs with SCS.
> 
> .
> .
> ...


The audacity!!!


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 28, 2022)

I like music said:


> Damn, here we are a year later. I have a feeling they will be released one day in the future.


Yup, one year later and still no runs mode for CSS. That's why I don't think they are just adding a runs mode, my guess is they are re-doing something much bigger, and time consuming, maybe a new Lookahead latency system, something similar to what MSS, and TSS offer. 

We shall see if this happens during this Century.


----------



## pawelmorytko (Jan 28, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> You can make some pretty good runs with SCS.
> 
> .
> .
> ...


Don't forget the CS2 runs mode, that one's pretty good too!


----------



## Hendrixon (Jan 28, 2022)

Its mind boggling how Alex has the nerve to leave all of you whinny bastards without a runs mode in CSS which prevents you from finishing the score to your current $100 million production.


----------



## Trash Panda (Jan 28, 2022)

Time to take wagers on if Infinite Strings or the CSS update comes first?


----------



## Evans (Jan 28, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> Its mind boggling how Alex has the nerve to leave all of you whinny bastards without a runs mode in CSS which prevents you from finishing the score to your current $100 million production.


Well, now it's $100,000,300 because I had to buy more strings for my runs.


----------



## Robert_G (Jan 28, 2022)

Ill never understand why some companies cant take 2 minutes every few months to update their customers on where they are at by writing out a couple sentences. Alex is not very good at all with that.


----------



## TomaeusD (Jan 28, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> Ill never understand why some companies cant take 2 minutes every few months to update their customers on where they are at by writing out a couple sentences. Alex is not very good at all with that.


In Cinematic Studio's case my guess is other priorities, too much pressure, anxiety/depression, being understaffed, COVID-19 or other illnesses, recovery from wildfire damages, forgetfulness, feeling like updating with the same answer would be tedious and demoralizing, etc. It could be any combination of these.


----------



## Robert_G (Jan 28, 2022)

TomaeusD said:


> In Cinematic Studio's case my guess is other priorities, too much pressure, anxiety/depression, being understaffed, COVID-19 or other illnesses, recovery from wildfire damages, forgetfulness, feeling like updating with the same answer would be tedious and demoralizing, etc. It could be any combination of these.


In the real world, we call that 'LIFE'. Everybody deals with it. Alex isn't special.


----------



## Duncan Krummel (Jan 28, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> In the real world, we call that 'LIFE'. Everybody deals with it. Alex isn't special.


…and it’s a valid reason? No one’s special, but being someone who experiences life too, you might want to practice more compassion here.

I reached out to Alex a while back about some of the existing WW issues, and he mentioned a beta happening at some point regarding this. Fast forward a couple months, still nothing. I reached out again, and haven’t received a response, so I assume there’s a lot going on and it isn’t worth putting more pressure on them there.


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## Robert_G (Jan 28, 2022)

Duncan Krummel said:


> …and it’s a valid reason? No one’s special, but being someone who experiences life too, you might want to practice more compassion here.
> 
> I reached out to Alex a while back about some of the existing WW issues, and he mentioned a beta happening at some point regarding this. Fast forward a couple months, still nothing. I reached out again, and haven’t received a response, so I assume there’s a lot going on and it isn’t worth putting more pressure on them there.


It's not about compassion. When you have a business to run, you have a business to run. I know it's only sample libraries, but imagine you pay $30k for a new roof with a 5 year warrantee. A year later, the roof is leaking and the company owner is off for whatever reason.....I don't really care what the reason is....I want my roof fixed. I just handed over 30k and I have a leaky roof.

Again....I realize that a sample library isn't as important as a leaky roof, but CSW owners spent good money on it, and it still has issues that need to be addressed......and for those reasons....Alex should at least keep us updated. It's is simply a common courtesy.


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## Duncan Krummel (Jan 28, 2022)

@Robert_G 

Well I would disagree that it isn’t about compassion, and I personally believe we’d all be much happier if we just cut everyone a break.

With that said, I do agree it’s a courtesy, and it has been a frustration waiting for the fixes. I’ve had to fudge a few releases because of this, so I’m very eager for an update. Still, I’m not going to hold over anyone’s head because how the hell do I know what’s going on over there? Not worth the stress.


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## Getsumen (Jan 28, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> Ill never understand why some companies cant take 2 minutes every few months to update their customers on where they are at by writing out a couple sentences. Alex is not very good at all with that.


In my experience, there's no benefit in doing so. You can't promise and say it's coming in 2 months! Because then, inevitably, something will come up again and you miss the deadline and make people more mad. (*gestures vaguely at the various releases last year*)

If you give a vague it's coming soon message, you'll annoy more people by not being specific. And well, isn't it a little bit obvious that it's coming soon? Of course, the majority will be happy for an update but you know inevitably some people will bug you about it.

Lose lose situation.


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## Robert_G (Jan 28, 2022)

Getsumen said:


> In my experience, there's no benefit in doing so. You can't promise and say it's coming in 2 months! Because then, inevitably, something will come up again and you miss the deadline and make people more mad. (*gestures vaguely at the various releases last year*)
> 
> If you give a vague it's coming soon message, you'll annoy more people by not being specific. And well, isn't it a little bit obvious that it's coming soon? Of course, the majority will be happy for an update but you know inevitably some people will bug you about it.
> 
> Lose lose situation.


I don't think anyone is asking for a 'promise'....more like a "hey this is about where we are at right now....this is what we have left to get done" sort of thing.

No one has any idea where Cinematic Studios is in their progress with the updates right now.....not a clue.


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## muziksculp (Jan 28, 2022)

I love it when developers are transparent, communicative, and understand that their customers are also uncomfortable waiting very long for fixes/updates to be released.

Staying silent, and not giving any feedback is counterproductive.

I love how Andrew of ISW was so transparent, and decided to share his development of TSS with many of us on this forum, that to me should be an example for other developers, who still feel that being secretive, and non-communicative is a smart strategy.


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## Evans (Jan 28, 2022)

Getsumen said:


> In my experience, there's no benefit in doing so. You can't promise and say it's coming in 2 months! Because then, inevitably, something will come up again and you miss the deadline and make people more mad. (*gestures vaguely at the various releases last year*)
> 
> If you give a vague it's coming soon message, you'll annoy more people by not being specific. And well, isn't it a little bit obvious that it's coming soon? Of course, the majority will be happy for an update but you know inevitably some people will bug you about it.
> 
> Lose lose situation.


There's a great deal of confidence that you can build within your market that can come from not being _correct_ about your estimates, but by providing _clarity_ to your customers even when estimates prove off.

How many people here gushed over Audiobro for their solid behavior with their MSS delays? While VI-C is a small sample size, this is absolutely true of other software companies in other industries (source: me).


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## Alex W (Jan 28, 2022)

I hope everyone's doing okay in these crazy times.

I know it's been a long while between posts, but please rest assured that I have been working around the clock on the CSS update ever since I released the woodwinds V.1.3 update. I started working on the CSS runs mode when I was implementing runs for woodwinds, and if I'd stuck with just doing that it would've been a fairly straightforward update; but as often happens to sample library developers, I went "down the rabbit hole", and the update soon turned into something much more comprehensive.

In addition to the runs, I also ended up going back to the original recordings and re-editing large parts of the library. This included re-timing the legatos and short notes so that they're much tighter, improving the sound of the non-vibrato legato transitions so that they're much more realistic and useful than they were before, and also significantly changing the mix, which brings out much more room depth, clarity and detail in the sound. I also did a bunch of other things, all of which really amount to this being quite a substantial, yet subtle, update. It's the first update we've released since 2017, so I figured the library could use a "new coat of paint", so to speak. I'm very happy with how it has turned out and I'm excited to get it out there asap.

As for CSW, releasing the update for this became more complicated as I realised that things I wanted to implement into it need to be derived from the CSS update. Thankfully the bugs in the current version are minor and people have still been able to use 99% of the library in their music, apart from piccolo whole trill room mics and a few other minor things. I don't think the leaky-roof analogy is fair, as it implies that CSW is not fit for purpose, which is obviously not the case. My main mistake was mentioning the runs mode for CSS at all - a mistake I will not make again.

Anyway, after the CSS update is out I'll be working on future updates for the other libraries as well; these updates will substantially improve the quality of the libraries, and I guarantee they'll be worth the wait. Also, just because I don't have the time to check the forum and post here more often, it doesn't mean that you can't just reach out to us. I've had a number of enquiries about the progress of the update via our help desk, and I've always responded with as much detail as I can give. There's no point asking about release dates though, because I don't know the answer.

Remember that it's basically just me doing all this stuff. I have one part-time staff member who helps out with tech support and marketing, and the occasional services of an additional programmer and a recording assistant when needed, and that's it. I don't have a team like the big developers out there, it's pretty much just little old me. Every day I get up at 8, start work at 10, and don't stop working till midnight, having taken an hour off for lunch, dinner and walking my silly dog. I literally can't do any more than that.

Thanks for your patience and (hopefully) understanding.

-Alex


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## muziksculp (Jan 28, 2022)

Hi @Alex W ,

Thanks for the feedback regarding the updates, hopefully the CSS update will be out soon.

You didn't mention anything about the Latency system of your libraries ? i.e. Will you add a similar Low-Latency mode to CSS, CSSS, CSB , similar to CSW in the upcoming updates ?

Also curious if you have any future plans to implement a lookahead Latency mode  ? Instead of the current system which I find annoying to work with.


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## Watercolor Music (Jan 28, 2022)

I understand that we would always like to have the newest and the shiniest tools on our hard drives, and the wait can be hard. On the other hand, I really hope that people could give developers, especially small independent developers some time and space. CSS/CSB/CSW are world-class tools, and the fact that it is developed by one person is awe-inspiring. The lack of an update at the moment is not going to prevent any one of us creating professional-sounding mockups with our existing tools.


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## muziksculp (Jan 28, 2022)

Watercolor Music said:


> On the other hand, I really hope that people could give developers, especially small independent developers some time and space.


Are you serious ? It's over a year we are waiting for an update


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## Trash Panda (Jan 28, 2022)

Skulp, you have nearly every string library known to man. What is so pressing about this one library's string update getting out the door? Is the lack of CSS runs beyond the marcato patch the only thing holding back your magnum opus from becoming a reality? Do none of the other 200 string libraries fill the gap?

Don't get me wrong, I get the frustration with delays. It does seem like the level of impatience for this update exceeds the benefit that will come from it though.


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## NoamL (Jan 28, 2022)

I really like CSS for runs _right now_. Any update would be icing on the cake. If anyone is having trouble with runs my advice is: use the marcato legato without accents (F#0 light velocity). Be pushy with the modwheel as runs usually have a "landing" that the musicians are pushing towards. Try to create phrasing within the run. Reserve accents for single notes within a run to simulate rebow, this is useful for things like 16th triplets that jump around on the violin (lots of this in JW Harry Potter, other scores...) You can also add accents on some/all of the notes at the end of a huge crescendo (gives a nice extra "sloppiness" but in a good way)






If multiple string/wind/etc sections are doing the same run, de-quantize their parts slightly. And... that's all really!

Here's a small comparison of runs between Appassionata and CSS - neither out of the box exactly... anyway I like the extra blurriness and "soaring" feeling from CSS as well as the feeling of momentum. It's just "imprecise enough" 



The more exciting news is that the libraries are getting a 2nd look about the mixes!


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## Trash Panda (Jan 28, 2022)

I'm stoked about the changes to the shorts. The only real issue I've had with any of the CS libraries is your shorts are mush (Sfz), mush (Stacc), mush(Staccatissimo) or super crisp (Spiccatto/Repetitions).


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## NoamL (Jan 28, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I'm stoked about the changes to the shorts. The only real issue I've had with any of the CS libraries is your shorts are mush (Sfz), mush (Stacc), mush(Staccatissimo) or super crisp (Spiccatto/Repetitions).


Haha  that's what real strings sound like, unless I misunderstand you. Those spiccatos are _very_ tight. I usually use the staccatissimo for any kind of repeated-bowing ostinato. Maybe a good rule of thumb is the more "driving"/"Zimmer-y"/"train-chugga-chugga" the musical idea is, the more likely that st'ssmo is your weapon of choice not the spiccatos, when simulating how real musicians would approach it... the spiccatos are for very short 1 shot hits or for very sprightly and light playing (can't do it super _super_ fast).


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## muziksculp (Jan 28, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Skulp, you have nearly every string library known to man.


Yes, and I wish to keep them all in top notch shape via updates. 

Do you have a problem with that ?


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## Trash Panda (Jan 28, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Haha  that's what real strings sound like, unless I misunderstand you. Those spiccatos are _very_ tight. I usually use the staccatissimo for any kind of repeated-bowing ostinato. Maybe a good rule of thumb is the more "driving"/"Zimmer-y"/"train-chugga-chugga" the musical idea is, the more likely that st'ssmo is your weapon of choice not the spiccatos, when simulating how real musicians would approach it... the spiccatos are for very short 1 shot hits or for very sprightly and light playing (can't do it super _super_ fast).


I was referring more to the brass/woodwinds than the strings. At least I'm assuming part of the rabbit hole he mentioned with the shorts was going to include brass/woodwinds.


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## pawelmorytko (Jan 29, 2022)

Wow thank you for the update Alex, I’m sorry if you felt the need to reply because of people expecting you to say something, hope you don’t let it stress you out and make sure to get good rest inbetween working and most importantly don’t forget to just enjoy your life! You’re not a slave and don’t exist purely to create these amazing libraries for us and then working on updates for them 24/7.

But anyway, that’s great to hear about all which is underway. Most of the things mentioned in the update are more of a “want” rather than “need”, and I think that goes for most of the composers here, even if they might act like they absolutely and desperately need a CSS runs mode for their current project. There are always ways to work around something (like using the marcato patch for runs as NoamL suggested) and other libraries that can fill the gap if necessary.

I already thought the shorts couldn’t get any tighter in CSS so I’m interested to hear how that turns out. But I’m probably most excited about the new mix setting - I’m not the best at playing around with mics, but have always found that I wish you could hear more of the room in all of the CS libraries, so this update really resonates with me and I’d love to eventually see a full CS series set up with a roomier mix mic, I think it’ll sound great!


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## jamwerks (Jan 29, 2022)

NoamL said:


> I really like CSS for runs _right now_. Any update would be icing on the cake. If anyone is having trouble with runs my advice is: use the marcato legato without accents (F#0 light velocity). Be pushy with the modwheel as runs usually have a "landing" that the musicians are pushing towards. Try to create phrasing within the run. Reserve accents for single notes within a run to simulate rebow, this is useful for things like 16th triplets that jump around on the violin (lots of this in JW Harry Potter, other scores...) You can also add accents on some/all of the notes at the end of a huge crescendo (gives a nice extra "sloppiness" but in a good way)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for those examples. CSS sounds good here, but I prefer SAPP here actually. Nice to have all the options.

Amazing that Alex is a 2-man operation, Spitfire a 70-man operation, and Alex keeps up with them quality and innovation wise.

Along with the update for the strings, I'd gladly pay for some more arts in an extension package. That room is great for strings, would love to have: sordino, sul-tasto, and a real "FF" romantic sound similar to the loudest layer of SAPP.


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## Casiquire (Jan 29, 2022)

I appreciate the update, and it just goes to show that the biggest enemy in the pursuit for more detailed pre-release information are the people who are the most demanding about it. We need to chill, people. All the changes he mentioned here sound really exciting to me and if it winds up being anywhere near the way he described it, it'll bump the dev way up on my list of devs who make good use of user feedback


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## Drundfunk (Jan 29, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> [...]
> 
> Also curious if you have any future plans to implement a lookahead Latency mode  ? Instead of the current system which I find annoying to work with.


I seriously don't understand why people find the current method hard to work with. As a Cubase user it's actually a piece of cake. Just use the method Dirk Ehlert showed in his video about CSSS. Set up the 3 presets in the logical editor. Then play/program your line in. Select all legato notes except for the starting note and hit the three buttons/macros you set in the logical editor (then simply readjust some lenghts at the end in case they're too short). It takes like 2min to set up the logical editor. A task you only have to do once and then you can use it on any project. And selecting the notes and hitting three macros/buttons takes like 10sec max. That's the Cubase way. I find it hard to believe that there aren't similar easy workarounds for other DAWs...

@Alex W Looking forward to whatever you're up to. Also, don't work yourself to death. Life should also be lived. CSS is really, really good already. So an update is not the most pressing matter. There are libraries out there which truly need an update to even make them usable. But CSS already is the best string library I own. So take all the time you need.


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## Casiquire (Jan 29, 2022)

Drundfunk said:


> I seriously don't understand why people find the current method hard to work with. As a Cubase user it's actually a piece of cake. Just use the method Dirk Ehlert showed in his video about CSS. Set up the 3 presets in the logical editor. Then play/program your line in. Select all legato notes except for the starting note and hit the three buttons/macros you set in the logical editor (then simply readjust some lenghts at the end in case they're too short). It takes like 2min to set up the logical editor. A task you only have to do once and then you can use it on any project. And selecting the notes and hitting three macros/buttons takes like 10sec max. That's the Cubase way. I find it hard to believe that there aren't similar easy workarounds for other DAWs...
> 
> @Alex W Looking forward to whatever you're up to. Also, don't work yourself to death. Life should also be lived. CSS is really, really good already. So an update is not the most pressing matter. There are libraries out there which truly need an update to even make them usable. But CSS already is the best string library I own. So take all the time you need.


Except the legatos have different delay values so you need to make three templates and select the fast notes, hit three buttons, the medium notes, hit three different buttons, and the long notes, and hit three buttons. 

And program another three buttons for each legato speed to bring it back to normal in case i want to try a few notes with a marcato patch instead or try them as pizzicato.

Orrrr i can import my midi, slap MSS on it, and everything lines up perfectly


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## Rob Elliott (Jan 29, 2022)

Thank you Alex for the update. Your libraries speak for themselves. And while these 'updates' sound exciting, I still work with the present incarnations every day and get the job done for my clients. Will I download future updates immediately - of course. But for now, I focus on the job at hand, and I am grateful that I have tools of this level of craftsmanship. Thanks for your hard work and try to stay balanced. (Thanks, NoamL for the specifics on runs - great ideas).


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## sound team apk (Jan 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Except the legatos have different delay values so you need to make three reminder and select the fast notes, hit three buttons, the medium notes, hit three different buttons, and the long notes, and hit three buttons.
> 
> Orrrr i can import my midi, slap MSS on it, and everything lines up perfectly


Remind me why the Kontakt multi-script didn't work for you? Was it workflow or a technical issue?

Do we know if anyone's ever tried to implement a lookahead mode as a MIDI VST effect? I'm getting tempted to try as a way to learn the protocol, but since I don't know the protocol, I don't know if it's possible. I assume someone would have done it by now...


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## Casiquire (Jan 29, 2022)

sound team apk said:


> Remind me why the Kontakt multi-script didn't work for you? Was it workflow or a technical issue?
> 
> Do we know if anyone's ever tried to implement a lookahead mode as a MIDI VST effect? I'm getting tempted to try as a way to learn the protocol, but since I don't know the protocol, I don't know if it's possible. I assume someone would have done it by now...


I'm not positive what exactly the issue is but I'm thinking it's a matter of how it's set up. At this point i need to use two keyswitches and two midi CCs just to get things mostly working but all with a handful of issues, such as the last note of each phrase just hanging. Every time i get help in that thread, it introduced a new keyswitch i need to add to the list or a new CC. I kind of wish there were clear instructions about everything you need to do to trigger the script properly

@liquidlino was really awesome and made a great script for it in Reaper which immediately comes way closer to the workflow i want, but it would be great to have something built in to the vanilla library that gives us those good long legato transitions but consistently timed with each other and the rest of the library


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## yiph2 (Jan 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Except the legatos have different delay values so you need to make three templates and select the fast notes, hit three buttons, the medium notes, hit three different buttons, and the long notes, and hit three buttons.
> 
> And program another three buttons for each legato speed to bring it back to normal in case i want to try a few notes with a marcato patch instead or try them as pizzicato.
> 
> Orrrr i can import my midi, slap MSS on it, and everything lines up perfectly


Or just choose one interval type and make everything the same velocity


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## Drundfunk (Jan 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Except the legatos have different delay values so you need to make three templates and select the fast notes, hit three buttons, the medium notes, hit three different buttons, and the long notes, and hit three buttons.


What? No.... You set up three macros with the logical editor. Each macro pushes back the notes within predetermined velocity values. First affects all notes with a velocity range from 0-64. Second one from 65-100 and the third one from 101-127. So if you select all notes and hit the first macro it only affects the notes for that velocity range. So all you have to do is to select all notes (except for the first one in a line since you don't want to push that one back) and hit the three macro buttons. If you hit the first macro it will only push back the notes within the velocity range from 0-64. If you hit the second it will only affect the notes from 65-100 and if you hit the third it pushes back the notes within the velocity range of 101-127. That's it. To get the values for how much the notes need to be substracted, either calculate it yourself ("value from the CSS manual" - "track delay value" = substracting value) or simply watch Dirk Ehlert's video (needs to be set up once in the logical editor). All there is to it really. Maybe I was lucky since I watched Dik Ehlert's video shortly before I bought CSS myself. But I set it up exactly as he did and never had any problem using CSS. As I said, piece of cake. That's the Cubase way, but as I said, I'm quite sure other DAWs can do something similar as well. Edit: I think his tutorial on the logical editor is actually in the CSSS video. Same principle tho.



Casiquire said:


> And program another three buttons for each legato speed to bring it back to normal in case i want to try a few notes with a marcato patch instead or try them as pizzicato.


You could simply quantize those notes back?


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## David Kudell (Jan 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Except the legatos have different delay values so you need to make three templates and select the fast notes, hit three buttons, the medium notes, hit three different buttons, and the long notes, and hit three buttons.
> 
> And program another three buttons for each legato speed to bring it back to normal in case i want to try a few notes with a marcato patch instead or try them as pizzicato.
> 
> Orrrr i can import my midi, slap MSS on it, and everything lines up perfectly


The shockingly easy and surprisingly effective solution is just to pick one legato speed. Even though it’s called ‘Fast,’ that setting is very lyrical and works for 80% of stuff. Medium works great for everything else. And I never use advanced mode or the slow speed.

Set your negative track delay, play your part in, quantize, and with a quick command you can set all the notes to the same velocity. Done.


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## Casiquire (Jan 29, 2022)

Drundfunk said:


> What? No.... You set up three macros with the logical editor. Each macro pushes back the notes within predetermined velocity values. First affects all notes with a velocity range from 0-64. Second one from 65-100 and the third one from 101-127. So if you select all notes and hit the first macro it only affects the notes for that velocity range. So all you have to do is to select all notes (except for the first one in a line since you don't want to push that one back) and hit the three macro buttons. If you hit the first macro it will only push back the notes within the velocity range from 0-64. If you hit the second it will only affect the notes from 65-100 and if you hit the third it pushes back the notes within the velocity range of 101-127. That's it. To get the values for how much the notes need to be substracted, either calculate it yourself or simply watch Dirk Ehlert's video (needs to be set up once in the logical editor). All there is to it really. Maybe I was lucky since I watched Dik Ehlert's video shortly before I bought CSS myself. But I set it up exactly as he did and never had any problem using CSS. As I said, piece of cake. That's the Cubase way, but as I said, I'm quite sure other DAWs can do something similar as well. Edit: I think his tutorial on the logical editor is actually in the CSSS video. Same principle tho.
> 
> 
> You could simply quantize those notes back?





David Kudell said:


> The shockingly easy and surprisingly effective solution is just to pick one legato speed. Even though it’s called ‘Fast,’ that setting is very lyrical and works for 80% of stuff. Medium works great for everything else. And I never use advanced mode or the slow speed.
> 
> Set your negative track delay, play your part in, quantize, and with a quick command you can set all the notes to the same velocity. Done.





yiph2 said:


> Or just choose one interval type and make everything the same velocity



I reiterate: or, everything can be more consistent out of the box

I've had this conversation a hundred times already. I'm not arguing about it. I'm explaining why i think it's a nightmarishly tedious workflow. You might disagree. Your disagreement won't change my mind.


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## Drundfunk (Jan 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I reiterate: or, everything can be more consistent out of the box
> 
> I've had this conversation a hundred times already. I'm not arguing about it. I'm explaining why i think it's a nightmarishly tedious workflow. You might disagree. Your disagreement won't change my mind.


How can it be a "nightmarishsly tedious workflow" when all you have to do is to set up a simple thing once and then push three buttons? Are you a Cubase user? I'll happily find the video from Dirk Ehlert for you and timestamp it. No problem.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jan 29, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I reiterate: or, everything can be more consistent out of the box
> 
> I've had this conversation a hundred times already. I'm not arguing about it. I'm explaining why i think it's a nightmarishly tedious workflow. You might disagree. Your disagreement won't change my mind.


I think they're just trying to help you  

But I get that it can be annoying when you've heard it all 100 times already!


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## Casiquire (Jan 29, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I think they're just trying to help you
> 
> But I get that it can be annoying when you've heard it all 100 times already!


You're right and I'm very appreciative of all the help I've received on that front. I've come to a point where the library is only a slight inconvenience to work with versus my first impressions of it which were pretty bad, thanks to the help here.


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## Stevie (Jan 29, 2022)

I must say, I don't get the general pressure towards devs concerning updates.
It's not that these libraries are complete utter shit in the current state. It's rather that it 
triggers the "I want new toys" state of mind. 

The moment you put pressure on a dev, he will not hurry to release the update earlier.
It needs the time that it needs to finish. Patience is a virtue... 
And I'm sure your music won't sound any better with an update. It might be just easier to translate your ideas. But ideas are the initial spark. And that spark will likely not come from an update...

Just my 2 cents


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## Illico (Jan 29, 2022)

Drundfunk said:


> ...Set up the 3 presets in the logical editor.


+1. I'm a Cubase logical editor tips user too.


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## Illico (Jan 29, 2022)

I'm still surprise that Cinematic Studio Series was a One man stuff compare to Spitfire team's products.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 29, 2022)

I find the CS series very useable in their current state (the Project Colossal template is great too). Runs work great using the marcato patch as was mentioned above - no need to wait for a runs mode.

It is interesting that those who seem to pester devs most on this forum curiously have the least music or mockups to show. Makes you wonder if they even know what they're asking for.


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## I like music (Jan 29, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I find the CS series very useable in their current state (the Project Colossal template is great too). Runs work great using the marcato patch as was mentioned above - no need to wait for a runs mode.
> 
> It is interesting that those who seem to pester devs most on this forum curiously have the least music or mockups to show. Makes you wonder if they even know what they're asking for.


They can't show their music because they can't write their "runs symphony no 1“


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## Trash Panda (Jan 29, 2022)

Unit 381 to base, reporting shots fired in this thread. Requesting backup.


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## Composer 2021 (Jan 29, 2022)

Thank you so much for your continued hard work, Alex! I plan on buying CSB and CSW when my budget allows for it.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 29, 2022)

Alex rocks.


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## Hendrixon (Jan 29, 2022)

Stevie said:


> I must say, I don't get the general pressure towards devs concerning updates.


*OCD*


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## Stevie (Jan 29, 2022)

Nope, I think it's rather some sort of GAS. Completely unrelated to making music.


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## labyrinths (Jan 29, 2022)

It's good to remember sometimes that VI-C only represents a portion of a developer's userbase, and it's unreasonable to think developers (especially solo developers like Alex) are obligated to answer questions or provide updates anywhere outside of their own official support channels. I'm starting to wonder if maybe there's a reason why some developers have stopped posting here... 🤔


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## Consona (Jan 29, 2022)

NoamL said:


>



Wow, CSS sound so much better.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 29, 2022)

Consona said:


> Wow, CSS sound so much better.


As we should expect given SAPP is not designed for runs at all, while CSS is.


----------



## Gingerbread (Jan 29, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> As we should expect given SAPP is not designed for runs at all, while CSS is.


How so? Maybe I'm not getting something, but AFAIK, SAPP has a dedicated runs articulation. CSS has a marcato articulation that so happens to perform runs very beautifully.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 29, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> How so? Maybe I'm not getting something, but AFAIK, SAPP has a dedicated runs articulation. CSS has a marcato articulation that so happens to perform runs very beautifully.


SAPP as in Spitfire Appassionata Strings does not have a dedicated runs articulation.


----------



## Gingerbread (Jan 29, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> SAPP as in Spitfire Appassionata Strings does not have a dedicated runs articulation.


Doh! Am I thinking of something else? Heh, then never mind...


----------



## RMH (Jan 29, 2022)

Drundfunk said:


> simply watch Dirk Ehlert's video (needs to be set up once in the logical editor)


Can you tell me the title or date of the video? He's the channel I'm subscribing to and watched a few css videos, but I didn't see the contents of the logical editor.


----------



## Illico (Jan 29, 2022)

RMH said:


> Can you tell me the title or date of the video? .


I explain my process here.
But, the source I used comes from @StephenDBennett


----------



## Drundfunk (Jan 30, 2022)

RMH said:


> Can you tell me the title or date of the video? He's the channel I'm subscribing to and watched a few css videos, but I didn't see the contents of the logical editor.


There you go


----------



## RMH (Jan 30, 2022)

Drundfunk said:


> There you go


Thank you so much!! I'll try!


----------



## Aitcpiano (Jan 30, 2022)

I just wanted to add that I am really looking forward to the CSS update from Alex and would rather he did not rush it! I'd rather wait and get a really great update. All of the things he mentioned regarding the update are things I really would like for CSS. Especially the playable runs mode like you get with CSW and I am hoping that the re-timing of the legatos now make the legatos more like CSW low latency legatos. I find the legatos and marc more playable in CSW with their being less latency in the legatos. I really like how playable the CSW library is, I'd like that for CSS. I am also really looking forward to the changes in the mix of CSS!


----------



## Consona (Jan 30, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> As we should expect given SAPP is not designed for runs at all, while CSS is.


Oh, I thought we are getting something that sounds like a real string section, like a real string section right out the box...


----------



## Pablocrespo (Jan 30, 2022)

Great news @alex


Alex W said:


> I hope everyone's doing okay in these crazy times.
> 
> I know it's been a long while between posts, but please rest assured that I have been working around the clock on the CSS update ever since I released the woodwinds V.1.3 update. I started working on the CSS runs mode when I was implementing runs for woodwinds, and if I'd stuck with just doing that it would've been a fairly straightforward update; but as often happens to sample library developers, I went "down the rabbit hole", and the update soon turned into something much more comprehensive.
> 
> ...


Great news Alex. All the coming improvements sound great! 

A new mix with more clarity will be awesome, I very much like project colossal sound, if something similar could be achieved at the kontakt level it would be amazing!

But I see that you are wasting two hours between 8 and 10am. That’s very irresponsible of you!

Jokes aside. Take your time, get some rest and stay healthy!
(Cannot believe you are a one man operation!)


----------



## Casiquire (Jan 30, 2022)

Consona said:


> Oh, I thought we are getting something that sounds like a real string section, like a real string section right out the box...


I think they mean it has a cohesive sound, not that it's incredibly comprehensive. I mean, it's almost legato-only lol!


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jan 30, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, and I wish to keep them all in top notch shape via updates.
> 
> Do you have a problem with that ?


Do you ever make music with them?


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jan 30, 2022)

Alex W said:


> I hope everyone's doing okay in these crazy times.
> 
> I know it's been a long while between posts, but please rest assured that I have been working around the clock on the CSS update ever since I released the woodwinds V.1.3 update. I started working on the CSS runs mode when I was implementing runs for woodwinds, and if I'd stuck with just doing that it would've been a fairly straightforward update; but as often happens to sample library developers, I went "down the rabbit hole", and the update soon turned into something much more comprehensive.
> 
> ...



Looking forward to your updates. Sounds like huge ones - be sure to make them paid, so you can continue to pay your bills


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 30, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Do you ever make music with them?


No, I just collect them for their wonderful GUI designs


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jan 30, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Looking forward to your updates. Sounds like huge ones - be sure to make them paid, so you can continue to pay your bills


Agree.


----------



## Casiquire (Jan 30, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> I just wanted to add that I am really looking forward to the CSS update from Alex and would rather he did not rush it! I'd rather wait and get a really great update. All of the things he mentioned regarding the update are things I really would like for CSS. Especially the playable runs mode like you get with CSW and I am hoping that the re-timing of the legatos now make the legatos more like CSW low latency legatos. I find the legatos and marc more playable in CSW with their being less latency in the legatos. I really like how playable the CSW library is, I'd like that for CSS. I am also really looking forward to the changes in the mix of CSS!


I totally agree, this update has a bunch of things I'm excited to see. The library is already extremely capable but that mention about subtle improvements in the room impression really interested me. Runs mode would be nice to have especially when i need to hear blur but even when it was announced i thought, cool, but it hasn't been holding me back from anything


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jan 30, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> No, I just collect them for their wonderful GUI designs


Right, but seriously, where can I hear what you do with all those libraries? Your blog doesn't reveal anything, it's only other peoples music.


----------



## holywilly (Jan 31, 2022)

Maybe it’s time for Cinematic Studio Player.


----------



## Fry777 (Jan 31, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I reiterate: or, everything can be more consistent out of the box
> 
> I've had this conversation a hundred times already. I'm not arguing about it. I'm explaining why i think it's a nightmarishly tedious workflow. You might disagree. Your disagreement won't change my mind.


Wouldn't the CSS classic patches do exactly what you want, out of the box ?


----------



## Casiquire (Jan 31, 2022)

Fry777 said:


> Wouldn't the CSS classic patches do exactly what you want, out of the box ?


At the expense of the good transitions


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jan 31, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> No, I just collect them for their wonderful GUI designs


OK so you don't make music. So collecting sample libraries is a hobby, apparently.  I guess it's cheaper than collecting airplanes or race cars


----------



## Fry777 (Jan 31, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> At the expense of the good transitions


That was my point : maybe it would be worth for you to revisit these patches ?
I understand that the manual encourages people to use the standard legato patches as they're more sophisticated. While that is true, I also think that many people dismiss these classic patches as a result... Frankly I find them to have more pleasant sounding transitions than many libraries that are universally loved around here, and in a blind test I'm really not sure people would call them bad in comparison


----------



## I like music (Jan 31, 2022)

The classic patches are excellent!!!


----------



## Casiquire (Jan 31, 2022)

Fry777 said:


> That was my point : maybe it would be worth for you to revisit these patches ?
> I understand that the manual encourages people to use the standard legato patches as they're more sophisticated. While that is true, I also think that many people dismiss these classic patches as a result... Frankly I find them to have more pleasant sounding transitions than many libraries that are universally loved around here, and in a blind test I'm really not sure people would call them bad in comparison


It might just be me, but i hear quite a difference between the Classic and Slow legatos in the library. I find them on par with transitions from competitors and i find the Advanced to be better than most of the competition.


----------



## NYC Composer (Jan 31, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> OK so you don't make music. So collecting sample libraries is a hobby, apparently.  I guess it's cheaper than collecting airplanes or race cars


Assuming that’s true, we should thank him for helping to feed developers.


----------



## leon chevalier (Jan 31, 2022)

Alex W said:


> I hope everyone's doing okay in these crazy times.
> 
> I know it's been a long while between posts, but please rest assured that I have been working around the clock on the CSS update ever since I released the woodwinds V.1.3 update. I started working on the CSS runs mode when I was implementing runs for woodwinds, and if I'd stuck with just doing that it would've been a fairly straightforward update; but as often happens to sample library developers, I went "down the rabbit hole", and the update soon turned into something much more comprehensive.
> 
> ...


Hey Alex,
I'm a bit late but it's just a short message to say that there is a tone of "silent" users like me that love you and your librairies. That appreciate all the hard work you put in your libraries and the kindness you show everytime you show up.
We are already very glad to use CS serie daily as it is.
Midnight is a way too big day of work  go easy ! Take your time and take care of yourself.
A cinematic studio fanboy 😊


----------



## andyhy (Feb 1, 2022)

Alex W said:


> I hope everyone's doing okay in these crazy times.
> 
> I know it's been a long while between posts, but please rest assured that I have been working around the clock on the CSS update ever since I released the woodwinds V.1.3 update. I started working on the CSS runs mode when I was implementing runs for woodwinds, and if I'd stuck with just doing that it would've been a fairly straightforward update; but as often happens to sample library developers, I went "down the rabbit hole", and the update soon turned into something much more comprehensive.
> 
> ...


I'm sure I speak for most Cinematic Studio Series users when I say I really appreciate all your hard work. Sounds like it will be well worth the wait for these updates.


----------



## tim727 (Feb 1, 2022)

I really do think everyone needs to cut Alex some slack. He's basically a one-man operation working 24/7 to deliver world class libraries to you guys. The fact that he's been able to go toe-to-toe with much larger and resource laden devs and beat them in many areas is honestly a monumental achievement. I understand the desire for updates. If anything it is a testament to the love users have for his products. But putting any added pressure on him really seems completely unwarranted.


----------



## I like music (Feb 1, 2022)

tim727 said:


> I really do think everyone needs to cut Alex some slack. He's basically a one-man operation working 24/7 to deliver world class libraries to you guys. The fact that he's been able to go toe-to-toe with much larger and resource laden devs and beat them in many areas is honestly a monumental achievement. I understand the desire for updates. If anything it is a testament to the love users have for his products. But putting any added pressure on him really seems completely unwarranted.


I think there's only one or two people who could be said to be putting pressure on him. 

Alex is going above and beyond indeed. Doesn't owe anyone anything when it comes to the strings. Has developed one of the best strings libraries ever, and has somehow found the willingness and energy to improve them! Top guy. 

In any case, that little audio snippet with the runs does sound nice, so I'm looking forward to it. And the non-vib transitions that he mentioned.

Cracking updates.


----------



## Hendrixon (Feb 2, 2022)

tim727 said:


> He's basically a one-man operation working 24/7 to deliver world class libraries to you guys.


24/7?
Yea lets not exaggerate  

It reminds me a local comedy trio doing this piece about a father that pulled his son out of school to train him to be the best basketball player in the world, but the boy wants to keep learning... he hates sports. in order to satisfy his father and still go to school he proposes while being almost out of breath:

_Son: So maybe lets do half day basketball practice and half day learning?
Father: What half day?! in order to win you need to practice 25 hours a day!
Son: But there are only 24 hours...
Father: So wake up one hour early, ok?!_


----------



## tim727 (Feb 2, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> 24/7?
> Yea lets not exaggerate
> 
> It reminds me a local comedy trio doing this piece about a father that pulled his son out of school to train him to be the best basketball player in the world, but the boy wants to keep learning... he hates sports. in order to satisfy his father and still go to school he proposes while being almost out of breath:
> ...


He indicated that he's working 14 hours a day. I understand that my usage of the common expression "24/7" was hyperbolic, but it was meant to convey that per his own words he is working very long hours.


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 8, 2022)

Hi,

There was a very cool tip posted today to get realistic, and great results when writing runs with the BBCSO Library. Basically, by adjusting the velocities to a low value to trigger the Portamento transitions. This was posted by @Trinkets' Toad on this thread

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/bbcso-string-runs-trick.119317/

So, I thought why not try this with the CSS Legatos to obtain similar results, give it a try, and see what you think, I think it's not bad at all, I was able to get a decent run performance, by tapering down the velocities to trigger the portamentos in CSS. 

Hope this is helpful. Looking forward to the Cinematic Series updates. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## RMH (Feb 8, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> There was a very cool tip posted today to get realistic, and great results when writing runs with the BBCSO Library. Basically, by adjusting the velocities to a low value to trigger the Portamento transitions. This was posted by @Trinkets' Toad on this thread
> 
> ...


It's worth testing! Good information!


----------



## Sebanimation (Apr 13, 2022)

So... how's it going?


----------



## Evans (Apr 13, 2022)

Sebanimation said:


> So... how's it going?


I'm doing okay. You?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Apr 13, 2022)

Need this runs mode :/


----------



## Ian Dorsch (Apr 13, 2022)




----------



## axb312 (Apr 13, 2022)

I like music said:


> I think there's only one or two people who could be said to be putting pressure on him.
> 
> Alex is going above and beyond indeed. Doesn't owe anyone anything when it comes to the strings. Has developed one of the best strings libraries ever, and has somehow found the willingness and energy to improve them! Top guy.
> 
> ...


Non-vib transitions?


----------



## philthevoid (Apr 13, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Non-vib transitions?


Referring to this post I believe:




__





CSS - Runs Mode!!! (Coming this century, I think)


I love it when developers are transparent, communicative, and understand that their customers are also uncomfortable waiting very long for fixes/updates to be released. Staying silent, and not giving any feedback is counterproductive. I love how Andrew of ISW was so transparent, and decided to...




vi-control.net





This part in particular:
"[...]improving the sound of the non-vibrato legato transitions so that they're much more realistic and useful than they were before."


----------



## jamwerks (Apr 13, 2022)

Wonder if he decided to go back ad record some new arts while he was at it ?


----------



## axb312 (Apr 13, 2022)

philthevoid said:


> Referring to this post I believe:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do not think CSS has non-vibrato legato transitions....


----------



## Robert_G (Apr 13, 2022)

axb312 said:


> I do not think CSS has non-vibrato legato transitions....


CSS does not have non-vibrato legato transitions.... , but I do wish that CSSS vibrato wasn't ON or OFF. So annoying that I am very hesitant on longer soaring lines. Not sure why it can't be automated like CSS.

On the other hand with CSW the fact that it is on or off doesn't bother me. It's not as 'in your face' and really compliments the sound. But CSSS vibrato on long lines is atrocious. Really wish they would let it be automated like CSS.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Apr 13, 2022)

Imagine being one guy who releases arguably the best commercial orchestral VST line (certainly still my workhorse), goes back and updates them, then during the update process realizes that he can spend more of his own valuable time to make the _free_ update encompass way more than anyone expected.

And then people complain about how long it's taking to get a feature _that was never originally promised_. The nerve.


----------



## Casiquire (Apr 13, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> CSS does not have non-vibrato legato transitions.... , but I do wish that CSSS vibrato wasn't ON or OFF. So annoying that I am very hesitant on longer soaring lines. Not sure why it can't be automated like CSS.
> 
> On the other hand with CSW the fact that it is on or off doesn't bother me. It's not as 'in your face' and really compliments the sound. But CSSS vibrato on long lines is atrocious. Really wish they would let it be automated like CSS.


I'm guessing he's not satisfied with the phasing. Crossfade between dynamics and vibrato modes, and suddenly you're hearing four strings playing at the same time. 8 during transition crossfades. It's a lot to balance



Zhao Shen said:


> Imagine being one guy who releases arguably the best commercial orchestral VST line (certainly still my workhorse), goes back and updates them, then during the update process realizes that he can spend more of his own valuable time to make the _free_ update encompass way more than anyone expected.
> 
> And then people complain about how long it's taking to get a feature _that was never originally promised_. The nerve.


Agreed. That's how I view a lot of complaints about delays, not just with CSS


----------



## Robert_G (Apr 13, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I'm guessing he's not satisfied with the phasing. Crossfade between dynamics and vibrato modes, and suddenly you're hearing four strings playing at the same time. 8 during transition crossfades. It's a lot to balance


That is also true, which is why I prefer the concept of performance and individual patches like you get with Best Service Emotional Series Solo Strings.

CSSS is too simple for a Solo Strings library, and is one of the reasons I'm not overly thrilled with it.
The Emotional Series is so comprehensive that even with 1 single dynamic layer (long notes) and dozen's of individual and performance patches, there is the right sound for everything you could need. CSSS does not even come close to accomplishing that.

Although even on sale....the best you get all 3 from Best service is $358 on a BF sale or maybe a bit less if you buy 1 on BF and 2 on a crossgrade sale....where CSSS is the whole thing for $199 if you own something else from Cinematic Studios.


----------



## cqd (Apr 13, 2022)

Between these and the new cinesamples I've just given up waiting on them..
Whenever they arrive they arrive..


----------



## muziksculp (Apr 13, 2022)

cqd said:


> Between these and the new cinesamples I've just given up waiting on them..
> Whenever they arrive they arrive..


Same here, adding Pacific Strings to this list.


----------



## I like music (Jul 5, 2022)

Oh wow, sounds amazing!

EDIT: wrong thread sorry! But going to leave it here regardless, just to see the meltdown.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 5, 2022)

I like music said:


> Oh wow, sounds amazing!
> 
> EDIT: wrong thread sorry! But going to leave it here regardless, just to see the meltdown.


It does indeed sound amazing though, and I eagerly await getting my hands on it!


----------



## filipjonathan (Jul 6, 2022)

Is this even a thing anymore? Anyone talked to Alex recently?


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 6, 2022)

Does Alex even exist? Is he an AI. Are we in a simulation?


----------



## I like music (Jul 6, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> It does indeed sound amazing though, and I eagerly await getting my hands on it!


Genuinely so excited about this!


----------



## chrisav (Jul 6, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Does Alex even exist? Is he an AI. Are we in a simulation?


Alex(a)


----------



## Gerbil (Jul 6, 2022)

chrisav said:


> Alex(a)


"Alexa, bring me the runs"

'"Would you like me to order you a vindaloo?"


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 6, 2022)

you can create some more convincing runs using the current legatos, and lowering their velocities to trigger the portamentos, this will give the runs with a less focused sound, that string runs have. I really hope that the next CSS update is not just about a runs mode. All this time Alex must be working on more than just a runs mode. Which he already posted a video of over a year ago.  Also hoping to see CSP, and the updates for CSW, and CSB this Century.


----------



## Sat9 (Jul 6, 2022)

Gerbil said:


> "Alexa, bring me the runs"
> 
> '"Would you like me to order you a vindaloo?"


Or Taco "Bells" for the Americans.


----------



## Casiquire (Jul 6, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> you can create some more convincing runs using the current legatos, and lowering their velocities to trigger the portamentos, this will give the runs with a less focused sound, that string runs have. I really hope that the next CSS update is not just about a runs mode. All this time Alex must be working on more than just a runs mode. Which he already posted a video of over a year ago.  Also hoping to see CSP, and the updates for CSW, and CSB this Century.


The legato updates interest me too, and I'm holding out a grain of hope that it includes an MSS-style "everything is delayed by the same amount" feature.


----------



## philthevoid (Jul 6, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Is this even a thing anymore? Anyone talked to Alex recently?





muziksculp said:


> I really hope that the next CSS update is not just about a runs mode. All this time Alex must be working on more than just a runs mode. Which he already posted a video of over a year ago.  Also hoping to see CSP, and the updates for CSW, and CSB this Century.


He said he is working on much more than just runs: https://vi-control.net/community/th...ming-this-century-i-think.104197/post-5036234

I know it's been a long time but he did explain the reasoning behind the delay (including the fact that it's just him working on this, not a whole team). What more can he do at this point? He also admitted it was a mistake by him to tease the runs in advance, and that he's learned from that. And he said the updates would be worth the wait! 

I'm excited about those upcoming improvements but I also don't have expectations for a release time frame. That keeps me happy!


----------



## I like music (Jul 6, 2022)

philthevoid said:


> He said he is working on much more than just runs: https://vi-control.net/community/th...ming-this-century-i-think.104197/post-5036234
> 
> I know it's been a long time but he did explain the reasoning behind the delay (including the fact that it's just him working on this, not a whole team). What more can he do at this point? He also admitted it was a mistake by him to tease the runs in advance, and that he's learned from that. And he said the updates would be worth the wait!
> 
> I'm excited about those upcoming improvements but I also don't have expectations for a release time frame. That keeps me happy!


He's only delaying so that Muziksculp has something to talk about after Pacific is released.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 6, 2022)

I like music said:


> He's only delaying so that Muziksculp has something to talk about after Pacific is released.


As a matter of fact @I like music secretly did a Gofundme to raise money and bribe Alexa into doing so


----------



## Haakond (Jul 6, 2022)

I like music said:


> He's only delaying so that Muziksculp has something to talk about after Pacific is released.


Don’t worry, there is the Cinestrings update as well! 😏


----------



## doctoremmet (Jul 6, 2022)

Haakond said:


> Don’t worry, there is the Cinestrings update as well! 😏


Haakond… who do you think paid for them to delay THAT release JUST a while longer. Huh? Don’t be naive son, this isn’t kindergarten. It requires a lot of planning, scheming and bribing my friend…


----------



## jesussaddle (Aug 2, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> The legato updates interest me too, and I'm holding out a grain of hope that it includes an MSS-style "everything is delayed by the same amount" feature.


i'm sorry, what is MSS-style?


----------



## doctoremmet (Aug 2, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> i'm sorry, what is MSS-style?


In the style of Audiobro’s Modern Scoring Strings


----------



## Casiquire (Aug 2, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> i'm sorry, what is MSS-style?


You can hit a button that delays everything evenly by 400ms, so all you have to do is set a -400 track delay and everything, longs shorts legatos and all, plays perfectly in time


----------



## jesussaddle (Aug 3, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> In the style of Audiobro’s Modern Scoring Strings


There are plugins like Duck that let you visualize the articulation's waveform relative to a beat division you choose (to see if the attack portion rises in 10 ms, 50 ms or 150 ms or whatever). Setting up a basic MIDI beat and viewing it in Duck is the quickest way I know of to see how much per-articulation compensation I would want. I haven't tried MSS or the libraries that let you cut off the attack (bad Idea I think). To me a DAW like Cubase could have a visualizer (like in Duck) that give enough visual indicator to help. Is CSS going to do something light years ahead of all these things by making the different articulations have a built in "relative compensation" for each other? pretty cool if so!


----------



## jesussaddle (Aug 3, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> You can hit a button that delays everything evenly by 400ms, so all you have to do is set a -400 track delay and everything, longs shorts legatos and all, plays perfectly in time


Oh, then that was a good feature. Seems simple - not sure if a lot of other plugin devs have that feature.


----------



## Casiquire (Aug 3, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> Oh, then that was a good feature. Seems simple - not sure if a lot of other plugin devs have that feature.


Barely anyone I'm aware of. Audiobro products have a lot of useful little tools like that.


----------



## ShidoStrife (Aug 3, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> Oh, then that was a good feature. Seems simple - not sure if a lot of other plugin devs have that feature.


Tokyo Scoring Strings does too


----------



## Casiquire (Aug 3, 2022)

ShidoStrife said:


> Tokyo Scoring Strings does too


Am i wrong or does Audio Imperia do something similar too? Otherwise the next closest thing is really fantasticbut only one dev I'm aware of does it, and that's PerformanceSamples who just has the entire library at a consistent delay and tell you the number of ms somewhere


----------



## ShidoStrife (Aug 3, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Am i wrong or does Audio Imperia do something similar too? Otherwise the next closest thing is really fantasticbut only one dev I'm aware of does it, and that's PerformanceSamples who just has the entire library at a consistent delay and tell you the number of ms somewhere


I don't have anything from Audio Imperia. From the videos, AFAIK you can adjust the sample start, but I don't think the delay is uniform across articulations.


----------



## mybadmemory (Aug 4, 2022)

Yes Audio Imperia as well!


----------



## SwordComposer (Aug 28, 2022)

Just got an email about the CSS update coming this Tuesday: 

"Dear CSS user, it’s Alex here, and I’m very excited to be able to share this new version of Cinematic Studio Strings with you. The new CSS “Version 1.7” is the result of 2 years of painstaking work. There are added features like runs and low-latency legato - almost every aspect of the library has been improved, from the sound quality itself, to the editing consistency and scripting, and much more. 

More details on that below, but first, please read the following points carefully before proceeding with the update:


This update is designed to completely replace the previous version, therefore your old projects will not work properly. *Do not update if you are in the middle of a project.*

If you would like to be able to open old projects, you will need to keep the previous version of Cinematic Studio Strings as a backup.

The easiest way to create a backup is to do a search for your current "Cinematic Studio Strings" folder, make a copy of it right next to it, and rename the copied folder to "Cinematic Studio Strings original". (see image 1)

After you have created the backup, run Native Access and locate "Cinematic Studio Strings" among your list of installed libraries. Right-click on Cinematic Studio Strings and select "Re-install".

Native Access will download the new version of Cinematic Studio Strings. When this is finished, you should be able to re-open Kontakt, load a patch as per normal, and begin using version 1.7! You'll know that you're using the new version if you can see two separate Spot mics on the mixer. (see image 2)
In Summary: You need to copy your current Cinematic Studio Strings folder and rename the copy to “Cinematic Studio Strings original” (or whatever name you choose). Then, right-click on “Cinematic Studio Strings” in Native Access and select "Re-install", and when that has finished, re-open Kontakt. Load a patch, it will be the new version (if there are mixer faders for “Spot 1” and “Spot 2”, you’ll know you’re using the new version).

If you ever need to open an old project that was saved prior to updating, please follow these simple steps:

Rename the new "Cinematic Studio Strings" folder to "Cinematic Studio Strings new”
Rename the "Cinematic Studio Strings original" folder to "Cinematic Studio Strings”
Open your old project, it should load without issue.
 
What’s new in Version 1.7?​*Marcato mode (including runs)*

The new marcato articulation is much more powerful - it’s punchy, full of energy and grit, and can easily pull off fast, agile phrases with minimal editing. Play harder on the keyboard for a more pronounced attack, or to exaggerate a note within a legato phrase. You can play a snappy series of short notes, or a slower, more grand series of accented long notes. Playing a fast legato line will trigger the runs mode - you don’t need to enable anything or switch anything on or off - just play fast, and the script will do the rest for great-sounding runs.

*Improved sound*

The new mix mic is roomier, yet more detailed - lush, yet powerful. I spent a long time getting this balance right, and I feel that this mix should work well in a wide variety of styles and genres. Having said that, I really encourage you to experiment with the two spot microphones. These were mixed together into a single stereo track in the original version of CSS, but in version 1.7, you can now control them independently, allowing you much greater freedom to create your own customised sound.

*Low Latency legato*

I spent a (very) long time re-editing all of the legato transition samples, not only to significantly improve the timing, but also to ensure a more consistent volume envelope. This makes sequencing legato easier, particularly because it lessens the need for intensive “sculpting” of the dynamic modulation. In addition to these two factors, I also introduced a new “Low latency” mode, making it much easier to perform passages in real-time.

*Improved short notes*

All of the short notes in CSS, both bowed and plucked, have been re-edited to ensure better consistency of timing and length. I also improved the relative dynamic response between short note types, making it easier to switch between spiccato, staccatissimo (etc) without needing to pay as much attention to your playing velocity.

*Non-vibrato legato transitions*

Lastly, I have also improved the non-vibrato legato transitions. In the previous version of CSS I’d used simulated legato transitions, and while I didn’t record any new material for Version 1.7, I developed a technique to significantly improve the sound of these simulated transitions by editing the with-vibrato samples to create an all-new set of non-vibrato legato transitions. This not only sounds more realistic, but also makes the x-fade system more seamless and straightforward.

For more information on all these features please read the Release Notes.

While you're downloading, you might like to check out some new demos I created that utilise the new features in v1.7:

On The Run (mp3)

Together Again (mp3)

Cinematic Studio Strings v1.7 Introduction (YouTube)

I hope you enjoy the new version of Cinematic Studio Strings!

Alex "

Video:


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 28, 2022)

SwordComposer said:


> Just got an email about the CSS update coming this Tuesday:
> 
> "Dear CSS user, it’s Alex here, and I’m very excited to be able to share this new version of Cinematic Studio Strings with you. The new CSS “Version 1.7” is the result of 2 years of painstaking work. There are added features like runs and low-latency legato - almost every aspect of the library has been improved, from the sound quality itself, to the editing consistency and scripting, and much more.
> 
> ...



Thread 'Cinematic Studio Strings v1.7 - Available August 30!'
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/cinematic-studio-strings-v1-7-available-august-30.129198/


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