# Logic X Midi Draw... Is there a better way?



## MinorMajor7 (May 13, 2016)

I write in Logic X all day every day and I constantly find myself tweaking automation curves and moving nodes in the Piano Roll Midi Draw window. I feel like it is by far the slowest and most tedious part of my workflow.

Has anyone else found a better way to edit CC values in Logic instead of manually adjusting them after writing them in with a controller? Event list? Macros? Anything? 
Would love to hear some other Logic-heads thoughts on this.


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## clisma (May 13, 2016)

Can't echo your sentiments enough: easily the most despicable part of the job! Don't have any fancy silver bullet for it, but this new way of doing it does ease the pain a little if you happen to have a tablet and stylus.

On my iPad Pro, I use the Apple Pencil and an app called Astropad to mirror one of my Mac's screens to the iPad. Then I can use the pencil to draw and edit any kind of CC. Works like a charm and provides a respite for my hands and elbows from using mice and trackpads. Works quite well actually and seems even a tad faster overall.


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## MinorMajor7 (May 13, 2016)

clisma said:


> Can't echo your sentiments enough: easily the most despicable part of the job! Don't have any fancy silver bullet for it, but this new way of doing it does ease the pain a little if you happen to have a tablet and stylus.
> 
> On my iPad Pro, I use the Apple Pencil and an app called Astropad to mirror one of my Mac's screens to the iPad. Then I can use the pencil to draw and edit any kind of CC. Works like a charm and provides a respite for my hands and elbows from using mice and trackpads. Works quite well actually and seems even a tad faster overall.



Interesting! I never thought of that. Is there lag using this method? Are you connected directly or over the network?


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## clisma (May 13, 2016)

You can do either. Personally, I like the wired method, as it is noticeably faster in regards to re-drawing the screen on the iPad Pro. I only use WiFi if I want to discharge the tablet's battery. 

Lag, yes, it's there, but not bad enough to impede a good rhythm by any means, at least in my view. The way it works is that while you're dragging something with the pencil, the screen becomes fuzzy as it is constantly re-drawing until you let go of the object, but seeing that you need precision mostly while selecting the object (pre-redraw) it works well enough for me.


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## Soundhound (May 13, 2016)

Saw this in the current thread about monitors. Only pc and up to 15" screens when it first comes out, but....

Airbar.com


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## higgs (May 13, 2016)

Soundhound said:


> Airbar.com


...which re-directs you to The Performance Suspension Specialists at ridetech.com


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## Soundhound (May 13, 2016)

Doh! Well if you're looking for a smoother ride, that'll come in handy as well. If not:

http://www.air.bar



higgs said:


> ...which re-directs you to The Performance Suspension Specialists at ridetech.com


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## higgs (May 13, 2016)

Oh good. I was going to have to correct you as so:


Soundhound said:


> up to 15" *rims* when it first comes out *of the garage*



Air Bar looks really promising - especially if they expand it out of the "PC only" market and make it compatible with Ford and Chevy too.


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## clisma (May 13, 2016)

Looks promising indeed. I suppose one could enable a specific screen-set in Logic to zoom the MIDI draw pane to full screen in order to manipulate the CC data. I'm not sure I want to use my fingers to edge generally tiny dots and lines around a screen, could be imprecise. I just realized I may be getting old...


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## MinorMajor7 (May 13, 2016)

clisma said:


> Looks promising indeed. I suppose one could enable a specific screen-set in Logic to zoom the MIDI draw pane to full screen in order to manipulate the CC data. I'm not sure I want to use my fingers to edge generally tiny dots and lines around a screen, could be imprecise. I just realized I may be getting old...


Thanks for the feedback! These are some interesting ideas.


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## Soundhound (May 14, 2016)

Right? I looked on the site about Mac and it seemed like it might be forthcoming at some point. Until then, the faq suggested "give it a try, who knows?", basically. Maybe I'll try it first on my Pinto or AMC Pacer.



higgs said:


> Oh good. I was going to have to correct you as so:
> 
> 
> Air Bar looks really promising - especially if they expand it out of the "PC only" market and make it compatible with Ford and Chevy too.


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## Pablocrespo (May 14, 2016)

I ve send them a message asking for bigger screens and they kind of told me "not in the inmediate planes but who knows"

I wouldn't hold my breath for that happening too soon


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## mc_deli (May 14, 2016)

clisma said:


> You can do either. Personally, I like the wired method, as it is noticeably faster in regards to re-drawing the screen on the iPad Pro. I only use WiFi if I want to discharge the tablet's battery.
> 
> Lag, yes, it's there, but not bad enough to impede a good rhythm by any means, at least in my view. The way it works is that while you're dragging something with the pencil, the screen becomes fuzzy as it is constantly re-drawing until you let go of the object, but seeing that you need precision mostly while selecting the object (pre-redraw) it works well enough for me.


I'd love to see this in a video - I can't find one - anyone?


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## gpax (May 14, 2016)

I experimented briefly with the Duet app, designed specifically to turn an iPad into a second monitor. But my 3rd gen iPad was too laggy, paired with a new 5k iMac, the resolution of the older iPad way too small. 

I'm reading of others essentially advocating the larger iPad Pro this way (with Duet), as a second retina monitor, but am still confused about two things mentioned here with respect to this setup providing both a monitor and fully-functioning iPad touch support: Duet does not seem to yet allow this, even with the pencil (or maybe in a limited capacity), but you are saying a drawing app like Astropad functions like an overlay that allows for this?


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## clisma (May 14, 2016)

gpax said:


> I experimented briefly with the Duet app, designed specifically to turn an iPad into a second monitor. But my 3rd gen iPad was too laggy, paired with a new 5k iMac, the resolution of the older iPad way too small.
> 
> I'm reading of others essentially advocating the larger iPad Pro this way (with Duet), as a second retina monitor, but am still confused about two things mentioned here with respect to this setup providing both a monitor and fully-functioning iPad touch support: Duet does not seem to yet allow this, even with the pencil (or maybe in a limited capacity), but you are saying a drawing app like Astropad functions like an overlay that allows for this?



I can't speak for what Duet can and cannot do, as when I bought and tried it, it was an utter disaster (but then again, I use two monitors with my Mac to start with, so a third display may have been too large of an imposition on my graphics card!).

Right after giving up on Duet, I took a (small) risk with Astropad, knowing that it was NOT providing an extra screen to the setup, but merely mirroring the screen of my choice on to the iPad Pro. Truly, I did not expect it to work but alas, it worked beautifully. Again, there is some lag, but I find it workable as a solution.



mc_deli said:


> I'd love to see this in a video - I can't find one - anyone?



I will try to upload a quick video tomorrow.


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## wbacer (May 15, 2016)

Duet works great but your iPad needs to be plugged into your Mac. It won't connect wirelessly.
I have a 2013 Mac Pro 12 core running two monitors and Duet allows my 12.9 in iPad Pro to connect as a third touch screen capable monitor. Using an Apple Pencil, I'm able to draw very smooth cc curves in Logic X. There is no lag time as I'm drawing the curves on my iPad Pro but they do not show up on my Mac until I finish the line and lift up the pencil. Here is a screen shot of my iPad Pro. I hope this helps.


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## gpax (May 15, 2016)

wbacer said:


> Duet works great but your iPad needs to be plugged into your Mac. It won't connect wirelessly.
> I have a 2013 Mac Pro 12 core running two monitors and Duet allows my 12.9 in iPad Pro to connect as a third touch screen capable monitor. Using an Apple Pencil, I'm able to draw very smooth cc curves in Logic X. There is no lag time as I'm drawing the curves on my iPad Pro but they do not show up on my Mac until I finish the line and lift up the pencil. Here is a screen shot of my iPad Pro. I hope this helps.


Fantastic. This is what I was hoping for on several fronts.


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## clisma (May 15, 2016)

Here's that little video I promised. Forgive the realization, I don't do these often at all. Also waiting for Youtube to display this as HD, hopefully soon.



As you can see, there's some lag on the iPad screen, but it is minimal and I don't feel it interferes with workflow. A big plus is that you can directly jump to any point on the screen, without having to scroll there, like you do with a mouse. It makes for surprisingly faster motion.

A contra, is the fact that my, and I imagine most displays, do not match the iPad in size and resolution. To allow for flexibility, Astropad lets you define the area of the display you see and control on the iPad. It can freely be moved, as shown toward the beginning. 

However, this last point can also be an advantage: having the full screen, rather than just a chunk, show on the iPad, makes for smaller points - harder to control. 

Overall, if you can get Duet to work nicely, go for it. Otherwise, I think Astropad makes for a great editing companion.


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## mc_deli (May 16, 2016)

Brilliant. So, as you show there, you are working at the limit of the latency, right? Your movements seem steady and deliberate but any faster you would be waiting for the lag, is that right?


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## clisma (May 16, 2016)

Yes, I think that's a fair portrayal. If it is plugged into the Mac, as above, then it's just about as fast as I can or want to move. Over WiFi, it's slower enough that I have to wait just a fraction of a moment. However, I've moved past that as well: when over WiFi I just go on with my movement, not waiting for the refresh to complete, trusting that I'm close enough to where I want to be.


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## fastlanephil (May 18, 2016)

I glad there is some sort of upgrade solution, if a little expensive, for drawing in the controllers in Logic Pro X. My old DAW on the OSX side stayed 32-bit and I didn't want to go Windows right now so it was pretty limited as far as track count and handling the more hungry plugins but drawing in the controllers was really smooth. It was pretty close to being like free hand drawing in a draw app. I recently got into electronic composing so I need to do much less of the CC editing now. 

I wish Logic Pro X and some of the other DAWs I've tried would have an option to have a similar smooth controller draw in experience instead of those crazy little tinker toy like dots and lines. My other DAW was written by and is maintained by one coder and the controller graphic draw in freature has been like that for at least fifteen years.


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