# Mastering classical music



## bryla (Dec 15, 2008)

Hi!

I'm doing a cd for and with my girlfriend for her grandmother's birthday, and I was wondering. Do you master to 0.0dBFS - maintaining the dynamic range though! - as you do for pop/rock and other stuff, or do you keep it lower, as I seem to notice orchestral music is? It's just piano and violin, and at -3dBFS the violin seems to be pretty nasty....

Your thoughts, comments, experiences?

Best,
Thomas


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## jsaras (Dec 16, 2008)

I would suggest that you go for a level that is K-20 compliant. If the violin sounds 'nasty' it has nothing to do with your levels being lower.


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## bryla (Dec 16, 2008)

K20??


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## Reegs (Dec 16, 2008)

http://www.wikirecording.org/K_System


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm ignorant on this matter, but I would simply look for the volume levels for the tracks relative to each other. So that quieter tracks have lower levels than louder tracks. Then I would simply raise all the levels so that the loudest track is at -0.2 dB. This gives the best resolution. Why make a CD where all the tracks are below the maximum level?


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## Moonchilde (Dec 16, 2008)

One thing I loathe about classical cds is how they're always way quieter than all my other music. So if I'm listening to my ripped cds via PC, the classical stuff is inaudible half the time compared to other orchestral works like film soundtracks. Having to constantly monitor the volume is a PITA.


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## synergy543 (Dec 16, 2008)

Classical music tends to use a wider dynamic range than pop which makes classical mixes appear quieter. My car CD player has a compander which both compresses (the loud) and expands (the quiet) so that its much easier to listen to classical music in the car at 100mph - you can hear the quiet passages and the loud ones don't blast you off the road. I suppose you could mix a CD like this too - Grandma might like it depending upon her hearing.

For mastering, you really don't need to bring the level all the way to 0dB to make it sound loud - loudness is relative and depends both on the piece and other factors such as dynamics, compression, etc. Leave yourself 0.2 or 0.3 dB of headroom at least on your loudest peak. One reason for NOT making it this loud is do you want your violin and piano to sound as loud as Jimi Hendrix when you put in the next CD?

And as others say, the K-System is very good reference standard if you have plugins that adhere to this (such as PSP Xenon which is excellent but a bit power hungry)


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## jsaras (Dec 16, 2008)

It should be noted that peak metering is NOT the way to measure relative loudness. RMS is more useful in that regard.


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## nomogo (Dec 16, 2008)

You might think about posing this question over here:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/

I generally get pretty good advice there regarding mastering.


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## nikolas (Dec 16, 2008)

The "problem" with classical music, as opposed to "pop" is the following (I think):

With classical music you may get 1 single piece, of 40 minutes length. This IS normalised to 0 db, but across 4 minutes, there's only 1 single place of 0 db. Plus you don't get to use any limiting or compresing.

In the opposite end, pop music has short tracks of 3-4 minutes. Each one is at 0 db, has a lot less dynamic changes, and has probably gone through compression, limiting, etc...

(At some point I posted this in SOL forum)
http://www.nikolas-sideris.com/cgempire/EW.jpg

There are a few 0 db places here and there in the above, but since it is one single piece, it's kept at relative levels...

Hope this helps and is regarding the original subject Bryla intended... :-/


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## david robinson (Dec 16, 2008)

hi,
ears are lazy.
they love even volume.
this is not true in nature.
a classical recording, if done right, will exercise your hearing.
a good thing.
of course, an aligned listening space will help with this.
DR9.


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## bryla (Dec 17, 2008)

Nikolas I think you're thinking of orchestral classical music. I'm just thinking of a duo, playing pieces at around 1-4 minutes.

Thanks for the replies, you really just confirmed my way of thinking!

The K-20 system is something I have to look in to. But just so I understand: If I play noise at -20dBFS (Peak/RMS?), then I should measure it to 85dB at my listening position?


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## synergy543 (Dec 17, 2008)

bryla @ Wed Dec 17 said:


> But just so I understand: If I play noise at -20dBFS (Peak/RMS?), then I should measure it to 85dB at my listening position?



Yes. * http://www.digido.com/media/articles-and-demos/13-bob-katz/21-level-practices-part-2-includes-the-k-system.html (Here)* you can read about it from the Katz directly.


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## nikolas (Dec 17, 2008)

bryla @ Thu Dec 18 said:


> Nikolas I think you're thinking of orchestral classical music. I'm just thinking of a duo, playing pieces at around 1-4 minutes.


Not completely!  The image I linked is from a quartet (Messiaen, quartet for the end of time), so it's not a huge orchestral piece. It's just very long.

For shorter pieces, it really depends on the rest of the tracks on the CD. And the dynamics. I mean a soft lullaby nocturne track from Chopin, doesn't have to be normalized (which is not, either way, what we're talking about here), but Beethoven Pathetique, indeed probably needs a normalizing.


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