# Cyprus



## George Caplan (Mar 17, 2013)

so over the weekend the cypriot government gave the go ahead to remove up to 10% of of savers money from their accounts as a euro levy. no consultation or anything like that. they just took it. 

any thoughts?


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## Daryl (Mar 17, 2013)

There couldn't have been any consultation, or people would have removed all their money. Now it's too late. :shock: 

I do think it's a bit much taking money from everyone though. I also think that it should worry nationals from other EU counties that are hoping for EU bailouts. A precedent has been set.

However, it just confirms to me that there needs to be worldwide action on the banking and financial sectors. If all nationalities worked together, there wouldn't be any tax havens, or people not paying tax, which would help countries to avoid a lot off these problems. Without international agreements, there will always be greedy people whose whole reason for living is to make more and more money, no matter what the social consequences there are.

D


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## George Caplan (Mar 17, 2013)

daryl this has not really got anything to do with banking in the sense most people would mean. this is to do with the eu and the euro. i would be more than worried in other countries. most of the big money disappeared from cyprus quite a while ago.

whichever way you cut it this is theft. merkel should be really worried. i would like to see them try this in the states. wouldnt happen.


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## Daryl (Mar 17, 2013)

George Caplan @ Sun Mar 17 said:


> daryl this has not really got anything to do with banking in the sense most people would mean. this is to do with the eu and the euro. i would be more than worried in other countries. most of the big money disappeared from cyprus quite a while ago.
> 
> whichever way you cut it this is theft. merkel should be really worried. i would like to see them try this in the states. wouldnt happen.


Actually, I disagree that it has noting to do with banking. Like the UK, Cyprus has relied far too long on the financial sector in order to stay afloat, and by giving so many special concessions to bankers, they have all but wrecked their economy.

However, I do agree that this wouldn't happen in the States. In the US the richest people would be exempt from the tax. :lol: 

D


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## chimuelo (Mar 17, 2013)

That explains what I have seen in the last 2 weeks.
I thought we had a Shriners Convention or something.
Guess they heard about a tax free place in the USA, but didn't want to get shot in Texas for looking like Mexicans that converted to Islam.


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## Tatu (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm waiting for the news that reveal how "some organizations", closely tied to some of our leading politicians (across EU), managed to withdraw their money from the banks luckily just before they locked the accounts.


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## Daryl (Mar 17, 2013)

Tatu @ Sun Mar 17 said:


> I'm waiting for the news that reveal how "some organizations", closely tied to some of our leading politicians (across EU), managed to withdraw their money from the banks luckily just before they locked the accounts.


That wouldn't surprise me either. :cry: 

D


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## Brobdingnagian (Mar 17, 2013)

George Caplan @ Sun Mar 17 said:


> whichever way you cut it this is theft. merkel should be really worried. i would like to see them try this in the states. wouldnt happen.



Agreed. However, I am sure Hollande was delighted to hear about this precedent action... :roll:


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## chimuelo (Mar 17, 2013)

As a student I wanted a collective society where we would teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, etc.
But once I hit the streets of competition and left make believe land, I soon learned that I made the mistake of letting my schooling get in the way of a great education.

Besides in the equally shared society, the wealthy redistributors would ensure everyone had their own copy of NI Komplete 9.
That Dog won't hunt.

So instead I decided to shovel Concrete all day and gig at night. Then bought a CS80, Yahama Grand, Hammond B3 w/ Leslie, Rhodes and Oberheim.

Had my own Medical, Car Insurance, Savings, etc.
How could this happen...?
You can't succeed w/o the guidance of a wealthy redistributor....this isn't right.

Nowdays I make the same decisions.
Wealthy Liberals wouldn't let me have a Solaris or the SE-1/EML-101, so I refused the Free Kontakt Library and worked hard to avoid the temptation of a non risk lifestyle.

But alas, the USA is shifting towards a society where we are incapable of decision making, so everything is becoming illegal, and by driving costs up so nobody can afford anything, the wealthy redistributors will swoop in and takeover another revenue stream, which they can now share with the peasants.

So maybe when I get old and can't Banga Banga, or play 4 sets a night, I will need their divine guidance and low risk lifestyle.

But until I become useless, they better keep their flypaper sticky hands off of my shit.
There's plenty of other wealthy redistributors who swear they will pay their fair share to save the peasants.

Thank God we have Al Gore, John Edwards, Kerry, Reid, Delay, Gingrich and other public servants whose sole purpose is to make sure the little people are protected.


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## George Caplan (Mar 17, 2013)

Tatu @ Sun Mar 17 said:


> I'm waiting for the news that reveal how "some organizations", closely tied to some of our leading politicians (across EU), managed to withdraw their money from the banks luckily just before they locked the accounts.



you might be waiting a long time.


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## George Caplan (Mar 20, 2013)

boy i would like to see cyprus pull out of the euro. that would be something. watched most of the uk budget today. my opinion the uk is toast. only route available now is for them to get rid of cameron and osborne sooner rather than later.


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## Daryl (Mar 20, 2013)

George Caplan @ Wed Mar 20 said:


> boy i would like to see cyprus pull out of the euro. that would be something. watched most of the uk budget today. my opinion the uk is toast. only route available now is for them to get rid of cameron and osborne sooner rather than later.


Before we get rid of the current government we would have to find an alternative that is at least slightly credible. I think that at the moment it would be a a case of frying pans and fire.

Regarding Cyprus leaving the Euro, I think that Greece would be first in line for that. I think that Cyrus has a way to go before reaching this question.

D


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2013)

Paul Krugman has been explaining what’s going on with Cyprus in his blog the past couple of days.

A large amount of questionable Russian money is being laundered there, and the Germans don’t want to use their public money to bail out gangsters. So they’re trying to push this on the Cypriot banks as a condition.

Meanwhile, Cyprus doesn’t want the Russians to take their business elsewhere, so there’s a quandary.


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## George Caplan (Mar 20, 2013)

yes but what youre forgetting is that angela merkel is probably insane and acting like a communist. imagine if you will what would happen if they tried this stunt in the states. now the uk have seemingly managed to alienate their pensioners in the next election and have now allowed what will be ongoing high inflation as art of their plan. good luck on that because youre going to need it. they need to cut taxes on everything big time but this guy is a one trick pony. you have a perfect storm brewing here that will affect us in the states.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2013)

What do you mean by ongoing high inflation being part of their plan?

And of course that would lead to riots in the US! I'm very glad we're not on the Euro.


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## Peter Alexander (Mar 20, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Mar 20 said:


> Paul Krugman has been explaining what’s going on with Cyprus in his blog the past couple of days.
> 
> A large amount of questionable Russian money is being laundered there, and the Germans don’t want to use their public money to bail out gangsters. So they’re trying to push this on the Cypriot banks as a condition.
> 
> Meanwhile, Cyprus doesn’t want the Russians to take their business elsewhere, so there’s a quandary.



30 Billion euros worth. So let's see, take 10 points from the Russians and 10 points from the cartels. Suddenly - maybe not...


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## George Caplan (Mar 20, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Mar 20 said:


> What do you mean by ongoing high inflation being part of their plan?
> 
> And of course that would lead to riots in the US! I'm very glad we're not on the Euro.



inflation is part of the way they want to pay down their debt. they dont have any growth or. Any sign of it due to world conditions. their plan is to get people to spend even if it means all their savings. 
what they probable need is to be in the dollar. if they had joined the euro they would like greece right now. maybe worse. they will have riots in the uk.


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## chimuelo (Mar 20, 2013)

Bush economists knew after 911 things were bad and they tried to get people to spend more money.
This didn't work to well.
Deutsch Bank re financed amounts that still cannot be counted but estimates of 20-40k per family with equity value over x amount of dollars.
I am sure all american home owners remember the times.
Didn't do anything but weaken the housing market, but the last gasp was the Prescription Drug Bill, which in "theory" was meant to have Seniors known to have more savings than other age groups spend more, they didn't budge. They had a gut feeling. But their stocks took a big hit.

Imagine your savings spent on fixing up your house, which is now worthless, and then your stocks take a 25% dip if you had the standard growth portfolio based on ROI.

They should go for the Russian deal. From the YouTube stuff I saw, which I take like a grain of Salt, the Cyps are blaming Germany.
I think they would be better off blaming Bush, since he's gone and under SService protection somewhere in Suadi Arabia dressed in Wohhabi garb....


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## George Caplan (Mar 21, 2013)

what makes me laugh is that everyone has places they go launder money. some people like the caymans some like switzerland or perhaps more exotic places like 
liechtenstein. the russians just happen to enjoy cyprus. is that any reason to hit the whole place with the most ridiculous idea you ever heard. these people are fucking nuts.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2013)

My Main Man Paul K has what looks like a good analysis of the problem, and if he's right then it answers what you're saying.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/0 ... all-fubar/


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2013)

He says a default on deposits is unavoidable.

"Cyprus is arguably better positioned than Iceland to do an Iceland, because devaluing a reintroduced Cypriot currency could bring in a lot of tourism. But will the Cypriots — who haven’t even reconciled themselves to the end of their round-tripping business — be willing to go there?"


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## chimuelo (Mar 21, 2013)

It really sucks when you run out of other peoples money to spend.
But thank God there are helpless peasants to cover the wealthy redistributors.
Lord forbid they be held accountable, or dig into their Chinese manufacturing investments.
Better the Sheep be rounded up for another Fleecing. :roll:


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## Daryl (Mar 21, 2013)

The thing to realise, is that it's always going to be a compromise. The Cypriots may not want the "haircut", but in the end they may have no other realistic option. If they leave the Euro, reinstate their currency and devalue, their money won't be worth anything anyway. Rock and a hard place, IMO.

D


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## George Caplan (Mar 21, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Mar 21 said:


> My Main Man Paul K has what looks like a good analysis of the problem, and if he's right then it answers what you're saying.
> 
> http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/0 ... all-fubar/



i know all that before he did. but his point 2 is interesting. that will apply to the uk if they continue with their idea about construction being the way to recovery. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

the icelandic parallel was the obvious one but ill give him that point and its well made.


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## George Caplan (Mar 21, 2013)

chimuelo @ Thu Mar 21 said:


> their Chinese manufacturing investments.



i just wish that would end and we bring back our lost manufacturing base. that or a trade war would be good. :idea:


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2013)

Rock and hard place, but that sentence about doing an Iceland in my last post explains why their money not being worth anything would be a good thing for them: it would invite tourism!

That's the whole problem with the Euro: countries like Greece can't devalue their currency to make their exports (or tourism) cheaper.

It would help us in the the US if the dollar weren't so high too. And the reason the Chinese bought so many dollars is to keep their currency low against it.


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## George Caplan (Mar 21, 2013)

thats what i brought up before. the euro makes greece the most expensive country in the eu. why would anyone buy euros to go to greece? technically the euro in greece has the same value as the euro in germany. go figure. now if it was drachmas then different story. or cypriot pounds.


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## chimuelo (Mar 21, 2013)

Nannys do not like it when their children become independant, grow up and want to leave the house, who will they take care of now, their job is at risk.

But Nannys are nicer than mean Russian Daddys who demand accountability for bad report cards.

That leaves standing on your own 2 feet as an option....

Not a wisespread concept these days. 

Well there's always the famous wealthy evil Doctor/CEO divisive tactics. They work great over here. But how can that happen in Cyprus......hmmm.
Wait the Greek versus Turk stuff. That will have the Sheep divided and allow the wealthy redistributors more time to steal.


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## Daryl (Mar 21, 2013)

George Caplan @ Thu Mar 21 said:


> chimuelo @ Thu Mar 21 said:
> 
> 
> > their Chinese manufacturing investments.
> ...


That will happen as soon as the Chinese develop their own phones, computers, tablet PCs etc. Within the next few years they won't be manufacturing for the US, because they won't need to. What the US will have to watch for is that the Chinese will be trying to export their goods, whilst trying not to buy any from the US.

D


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## Daryl (Mar 21, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Mar 21 said:


> Rock and hard place, but that sentence about doing an Iceland in my last post explains why their money not being worth anything would be a good thing for them: it would invite tourism!
> 
> That's the whole problem with the Euro: countries like Greece can't devalue their currency to make their exports (or tourism) cheaper.


Agreed, but these countries should never have been allowed to join the Euro in the first place. That was just the stupidity of the French and Germans trying to force an ideology on everyone, whether or not it was actually practical.

D


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2013)

Yes, what would happen when the sun stopped shining appears not to have been on anyone's mind.

But then the whole austerity ideology is insane too, so what can you say. People don't like to admit that they were wrong.


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## Daryl (Mar 21, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Mar 21 said:


> Yes, what would happen when the sun stopped shining appears not to have been on anyone's mind.


It never is. What's worse is that in the UK we have the leader of the Opposition berating the fact that standards of living haven't gone up over the last three years, without even stopping to think about whether or not they were actually too high in the first place. I certainly know plenty of people who have had to cut back drastically because they were spending far too much in the past, and suddenly came to the realisation that they had no way of sustaining that spending pattern.


Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Mar 21 said:


> But then the whole austerity ideology is insane too, so what can you say. People don't like to admit that they were wrong.


I think that there is a fine line to walk on this, but people seem to believe that they have either to be completely on one side or the other. I certainly think that savings have to be made, but that has to be tempered with the fact that if people have no money, they don't buy things, and that stifles any hope of an economic recovery.

D


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## George Caplan (Mar 21, 2013)

too much personal spending is bases on debt.


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## Daryl (Mar 21, 2013)

George Caplan @ Fri Mar 22 said:


> too much personal spending is bases on debt.


.....or greed.

D


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## chimuelo (Mar 21, 2013)

All they need to do is say death to Israel and down with the Great Satan and we'd send them a billion or 2 for free. Even kick in some jets and tanks.

I mean we have extra cash burning a hole in our pockets as we print 85 billion a month, so we are letting our wealthy reditributors spread "our" wealth.

We had auditions for Arab cats with beards. There were dozens of them on YouTube saying death to Israel and Zionists must die, great Satan and all of that God stuff and the guy from Egpyt won.
It was pretty easy so the Cypriots really blew that one, they could have been contenders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mXnbgsg9DM


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 21, 2013)

Daryl, the middle ground is what Keynes said three generations ago: "The boom, not the bust, is the time [for the government to be austere]."

And the idea that people were living too well is what The Man wants you to believe! The economy was capable of producing that level of goods and services, so the problem has to do with distribution of wealth (so they borrowed), not with people consuming too much.

Right now the government really should be spending like crazy. It really is a free lunch, because all those people they'd pay to do useful things would otherwise be sitting around doing nothing.

This is the same in the UK as it is in the US.


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## Daryl (Mar 22, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Mar 22 said:


> Daryl, the middle ground is what Keynes said three generations ago: "The boom, not the bust, is the time [for the government to be austere]."


Of course, that's never going to happen, because people are involved, and people are selfish and greedy.


Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Mar 22 said:


> And the idea that people were living too well is what The Man wants you to believe! The economy was capable of producing that level of goods and services, so the problem has to do with distribution of wealth (so they borrowed), not with people consuming too much.


I don't agree with that. Even though the UK is a much fairer place to live than the US, I still see a huge disparity between rich and poor, and whilst we both agree that this is due to distribution of wealth, the root cause is selfishness and greed by the people who can afford to pay more tax.


Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Mar 22 said:


> Right now the government really should be spending like crazy. It really is a free lunch, because all those people they'd pay to do useful things would otherwise be sitting around doing nothing.
> 
> This is the same in the UK as it is in the US.


I think that the UK and US are very different, primarily because the UK has very little in the way of natural resources when compared with the US. The only reason the US is not bankrupt is because of these natural resources, which combined with comparatively few people means that there is a real difference in how the economies have to behave in order to survive.

D


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## George Caplan (Mar 22, 2013)

you got to remember too that all this what they call in the uk quantitative easing and what we call printing money is useless. it causes inflation. the money is meant to be lent out by banks but a lot of it winds up in the markets. they need to cut taxes heavily. thats all taxes on everything.
the us is technically bankrupt but so is most of the world. it will come around but the $64 question is when. thats the real issue. not if. when. uncertainty is a big killer because it stops movement of lending and investment in business. which creates fear and job losses. here in the uk fear is the big killer as i watch uk tv. its getting worse. compared to when i first got here anyway.


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## chimuelo (Mar 22, 2013)

Yes but the 85 billion a month is being offset right here in Nevada George.
You can't expect Pravda to release this info, as their job is advertisement, division of Sheep flocks, the usual crap.
We have Mining booms here that are backing the Billions, not all of it, but this is just one State.
Local news is all over this as Nevadas' Mining Boom has pulled in workers from around the country. Concrete Workers Union is allowing Miners as a branch of skills now, which is great as Vets coming home get free membership and earn certifications backed by the VA.
It's just not as newsworthy as politics and fear mongering.

According to Geologists the USA could be #1 in Prescious metals exports, but purposely stays at #4 for unkown reasons. We actually jumped to #4 just from a single Vein in Carlin Nevada.

There are several of these veins, and many are told to be bigger.
The only problem right now is the Unions are trying like hell to get all of gigs, but the Federal jobs can be Davis-Bacon Act gigs where the Unions are cut out of the process since it's a right to work State. 
For example, my old gig paid 56 bucks an hour, but the envelope (paycheck) was 28 USD as the rest went to Pensions, Health and Welfare, Obama election pay, organizing and strike.
I did a few gigs like this for schools, and it really pissed off my Local. So they spent millions to get the gigs and won, but Mining is 50/50 still but growing since the NLB is stacked with AFL-CIO lawyers.
At any rate, I can't get exact amounts in dollars/export as sources are purposely confusing the numbers on purpose.
But 72 hour work works tells you they are behind in manpower vrs. production.
It seems as though some folks don't want such "good" news influencing the markets, and this really is common now as uncertainty has really caused Wall Street to boom, pensions are back to 13 checks a year. Which was really happening during the Clinton/Bush years up until 2009.

Since Nevada is 90% Federally owned land it's safe to assume such booms are being factored in.

You are right about the resources though. Chinese companies are starting to get in on the action too. They are buying the failed Green companies and are setting up NatGas refueling stations in preperation of the NatGas conversion era.
Since you are a gambling man, check out NatGas stock. For the last 3 years it's been a win/win, and as most politicians are invested in this now instead of failed Green companies, it's definately the future, as nobody knows better than the wealthy redistributors who pass the laws making this possible.

Just mentioning this, has kept Oil under 95 USD a Barrel so the benefits are 2 fold.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2013)

Daryl, we agree about the part you say you disagree with. I just wasn't clear.



> I think that the UK and US are very different, primarily because the UK has very little in the way of natural resources when compared with the US. The only reason the US is not bankrupt is because of these natural resources, which combined with comparatively few people means that there is a real difference in how the economies have to behave in order to survive.



Well, natural resources are obviously vitally important. Entire civilizations have collapsed because they used theirs up, and others like Japan have survived because they managed them. Look at the two sides of Hispaniola: Haiti cut down its forests and is desperate, while the Dominican Republican managed theirs and is much better off. And of course the entire British colonial history is because England doesn't have natural resources.

Having said that, it doesn't take away from what I said: the UK and the US economies are operating below their proven capacity. Therefore the problem isn't that people lived too well, it's financial.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2013)

George wrote:



> you got to remember too that all this what they call in the uk quantitative easing and what we call printing money is useless. it causes inflation. the money is meant to be lent out by banks but a lot of it winds up in the markets. they need to cut taxes heavily. thats all taxes on everything.
> the us is technically bankrupt but so is most of the world. it will come around but the $64 question is when. thats the real issue. not if. when. uncertainty is a big killer because it stops movement of lending and investment in business. which creates fear and job losses.



And that right there is most of the far right-wing Republican teabag lunatic argument in a nutshell. Filthy rich people want low inflation (because the bonds they hold are worth less when there's inflation) and low taxes. Remember that when you read arguments like George's. 

First, the US is NOT bankrupt. That makes no sense whatsoever. We own - we are - the biggest economic engine in the world. It will not "come around eventually," at least it's not a given that the world is going to run out of everything and we're all going to wither and die. Our government needs to SPEND MONEY and put people to work. That will solve the depression we're in.

Second, "uncertainty." Don't make me scream, please. The problem is the certainty of lack of customers. "Uncertainty" is just a ridiculous talking point.

Third, quantitative easing is not printing money, it's the Fed crediting reserves at banks' accounts at the Fed to increase their reserves. It also has the effect of lowering long-term interest rates and promising some inflation in the future, the idea being to encourage investment today. The money does not go into the real economy, because the banks to let it out. It does not lead to inflation, and all the people who shriek that it does have been proven wrong.

"But it will," you say. No. The same reason it hasn't is why it won't, and the economists who predicated that it wouldn't have been proven right.

Now, I'm not saying I'm 100% down with the way it's being done. Banks should be bailing out the American public, distressed homeowners, and lending. Also, the timing of when the Fed lowers its balance sheet - undoes QE - is tricky. But that's a separate set of issues.

And QE can only be effective to a limited degree, because it's a supply-side answer to a demand-side problem. Monetary policy doesn't really work right now. But I do think the Fed is absolutely right to pull out all the stops.

As to cutting taxes, well, across-the-board tax cuts don't work. Targeted ones can, for instance the payroll tax holiday, but cutting taxes on someone who makes $2 million isn't going to do anything good.

Become liberal, George. Reality is much better than BS.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2013)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/22/opini ... ml?hp&_r=0

Mandatory reading.


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## chimuelo (Mar 22, 2013)

I'm just glad the wealthy Liberal redistributors have taken advantage of the tax havens they sell and create for themselves and their fellow multi millionaire fair share guys.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 8598,d.b2I

They really care about the little people though, they swear it....

I am comfortable knowing we have tax cheats and offshore tax dodgers watching our money for the wealthy Liberal redistribution folks.
Lord forbid they pay into the programs the suckers who work for a living are forced to.

God Bless Antigua.........I mean the USA.. 0oD .


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## George Caplan (Mar 22, 2013)

nick you are talking hysterically. inflation is no good to anyone especially low paid. wealthy people can easily keep a standard of living regardless of inflation. inflation means jack to me. but if youre low paid or living on fixed incomes then inflation is a big issue. even for liberals.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2013)

Hysterically? OMFG!!!!! What?! EEEEEEEEK!

Seriously, what I'm saying is quite calm and calculated (other than when you say "uncertainty," which is the standard BS talking point; that does make me twitch).

And there's inflation and there's inflation. 2% is supposedly what the Fed targets, but a little more would be a good thing. However, every economic policy has winners and losers; it's when the less than 1% benefit and the entire rest of the country is f-ed that we have a problem.

And I assume you understand that future inflation is the idea behind QE, now that the banks have plenty of "liquidity."


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2013)

Chim, that is crap from the Faux News outhouse. Jack Lew had money in a Chittybank fund with accounts in the Cayman Islands.

This is what Robert Reich said about him:

"I worked with Jack Lew, Obama's pick for Treasury Secretary, during the Clinton administration, and recall him as a talented, self-effacing technocrat who knows the federal budget inside out -- a skilled wonk without his own agenda who'll serve the President well as the administration faces the next showdowns over the debt ceiling, sequestration, and money to keep the government going. Jack also knows politics, and can navigate the undercurrents of Capitol Hill. And apart from a short stint at Citibank in 2008 (another of Bob Rubin's boys), he's not tainted by Wall Street's myopic worldview. In other words, a solid and safe pick, which is just what Obama needs."


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## chimuelo (Mar 23, 2013)

Can't believe you still watch Faux News, my symapthies... :cry: 

My favorite Bernie Sanders points out the problems with Deregulation of the financial markets that the wealthy redistributors Rubin and Lew were involved in.
Bernie actually practices what he preaches, unlike the wealthy multi millionaires and Billionaires he Caucusses with.

http://www.reuters.com/ ...as reported by the Huffington Post.

But I figured since you pointed out how harmful tax shelters were for our economy, that you'd be interested in knowing those you worship, who are in powerful positions overlooking our economy, seem to disagree with you. 
Or maybe, just like true wealthy redistributors, want us to do as they say, not as they do. 

Lew is a great budget guy, not sure that the Treasury needs someone who lacks the International skills like Geitner had, but we have Bernancke for that. 
I'm just glad that the private sector gave him a 940,000 USD bonus after Citigroup got bailed out with tax payer dollars. 
I'm pretty sure during Obamas first term, they really didn't mean that stuff about evil CEOs, and greedy Doctors cutting off childrens ankles for a hew hundred extra.

But what's another million after trillions anyways, that's small potatoes, and wealthy redistributors should be compensated as protecting the little people is a tiring endeavor, so we should make sure Lew gets more than 940,000 USD of tax payers money this time. 2,000,000 USD sounds about right....

I'm just glad we really have Capitalists running the economy instead of the Socialist guys. I was kind of worried there for a little while with all of those fair share speeches.
But once I saw Al Gore avoiding paying his fair share, I knew I could rest easy and just ignore the Movie Stars and Multi Millionaires giving speeches about how terrible it is to be rich.....


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## George Caplan (Mar 23, 2013)

you are technically repeat technically bankrupt if everyone calls in their debt at once. ergo the us is technically bankrupt.


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## chimuelo (Mar 23, 2013)

China holds debt, as do Germany, and Japan. China cannot "call in their debt" as the clause states the exact opposite.
They can however sell the debt. They will lose out, and we have a chance of seeing inflation, but honestly Bernancke really runs the show and is steps ahead of everyone else, plus can print as much as he likes.

Just don't listen to these polticians trying to take credit while fleecing the tax payers.
If it isn't obvious now who runs our country, there's no hope of trying to convince the Blind that they can now see, well unless they have Benny Hinn types they also worship.


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## George Caplan (Mar 23, 2013)

chim inflation is used to pay down debt. thats the uk osbournes idea.

civil war in cyprus after what the bank of cyprus just did? good chance i would have said. the european markets may react badly monday opening.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 23, 2013)

George, I'm curious how you reconcile "everyone calling in their debt at once" with the facts that a) people are willing to buy US bonds for negative real interest rates, and b) the debt is held in dollars!

And inflation absolutely is used to pay down debt. So is growth.


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## germancomponist (Mar 23, 2013)

Please watch!


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## Daryl (Mar 23, 2013)

George Caplan @ Sat Mar 23 said:


> civil war in cyprus after what the bank of cyprus just did? good chance i would have said. the european markets may react badly monday opening.


Who would be fighting whom?

D


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## chimuelo (Mar 23, 2013)

I think Axelrod and Emanuel would be perfect for a distraction in Cyprus.
Sheep always fall for the rich guys that want to spread the wealth, well as long as isn't theirs.
Surely there's racial tension they could drum up like they do here using the American Pravda.
The old Turks versus the Greeks would be perfect. They could divide the Sheep and watch the fights from their heavily armed towers while skating off with the Cypriot Stimulus money... o-[][]-o


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## George Caplan (Mar 24, 2013)

Daryl @ Sat Mar 23 said:


> George Caplan @ Sat Mar 23 said:
> 
> 
> > civil war in cyprus after what the bank of cyprus just did? good chance i would have said. the european markets may react badly monday opening.
> ...



its usually proletariat versus establishment.

they will come up with the bailout on monday but i think cyprus banking is washed up for the future. who would put money there?


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## George Caplan (Mar 24, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sat Mar 23 said:


> George, I'm curious how you reconcile "everyone calling in their debt at once" with the facts that a) people are willing to buy US bonds for negative real interest rates, and b) the debt is held in dollars!
> 
> And inflation absolutely is used to pay down debt. So is growth.



growth is always best. but when you talk about buying bonds any bonds for that matter its not a question of willing. its for how long. you cant tell me anything about this subject. sorry. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Daryl (Mar 24, 2013)

George Caplan @ Sun Mar 24 said:


> Daryl @ Sat Mar 23 said:
> 
> 
> > George Caplan @ Sat Mar 23 said:
> ...


Haven't heard the word "proletariat" for a while. Besides, in Cyprus the people who are complaining are the people who have, er had money.

Cyprus banking is finished, whatever the outcome of this crisis.

D


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## chimuelo (Mar 24, 2013)

In Russia wealthy gangsters park their cash offshore but are at least honest enough to call them gangsters, here in the States they are called Politicians.

Imagine if the Caymens and Grand Banks told wealthy redistributors they were going to tax their accounts. We would send the Fleet over for a Naval Blockade.

The UK has a heavy military presense in Cyprus which oddly enough is left out of the American and European Pravda machines.
The Brits seem in a great position here as they can step in after the failed Russian talks a few hours ago, and kick in some of Barclays......sorry I meant Rothschilds massive cash to help bolster up an EU deal.
Once again showing the EU the tiny Island nation never needed to join their ranks, and could easily deal with any financial decisions on it's own.
The Queen Owns Canada, and other huge swaths of the Planets surface, and as they say the Royals aren;t active in politics. But they lease the buildings where the House Of Lords and other wealthy redistributor talk shop. I'd say they tolerate them rather well.
But the UK is going to play a major role IMHO, even if European and American Pravda run with the latest AP storylines they are paid to Parrot.


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## George Caplan (Mar 24, 2013)

chimuelo @ Sun Mar 24 said:


> Once again showing the EU the tiny Island nation never needed to join their ranks, and could easily deal with any financial decisions on it's own.



never could understand why they continue with royals. chim they did join the eu. they are in the eu. they very fortunately are not in the eurozone. if they had joined the eurozone their banks would have done the same some time ago. >8o


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 24, 2013)

George:



> i think cyprus banking is washed up for the future



That's what PK says in the article I linked. That's why he says they're in a better position than Iceland to "do an Iceland," because they could leave the Euro and make up the difference with tourism.

To me that seems a whole lot more productive than money-laundering and arbitrage.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 24, 2013)

And George, I may not be able to tell you anything about bonds, but you might not be aware that there's a raging argument over which one of us is right about this.

Actually, the argument is as valid as the one over global warming, because the people who predicted that QE wouldn't lead to runaway inflation have been proven right for about five years now.


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## chimuelo (Mar 24, 2013)

Well my option seems to the best so far.
It's not too late to make a down with the Zionists, death to America, and Jews are descendants of Apes and Pigs video.

We are saving multitudes of cash by closing down the tours of the White House, and making American peasants suffer, but I think the money saved there should given to more America haters. 

Falls right in line with current policy, and will keep the Russians from getting the NatGas.
Besides, our gangsters of the 2 Crime Families have much in common with the Russian mobsters, it would be another place of bueiness while vacationing with wealthy perverted Donors like one Crime Family member has in the Domincan Republic. Better check to see if prostitution is legal and what the age of consent is there too.
Why does Representative Menendez like 29 year olds...................???
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Because there's 20 of them.. _-) 

Hankyu...


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## George Caplan (Mar 24, 2013)

they would make money from anything if they got out of the death breath euro nick. like i say greece is the most expensive country in the world when it doesnt need to be. how you can carry on taking orders like that from the troika is a mystery.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 24, 2013)

Sorry, I don't follow. What are you suggesting for Greece? And what is the troika that's ordering me around?

That's not a disagreement - I honestly have no idea what you just said!


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## Peter Alexander (Mar 24, 2013)

FROM THE NY TIMES: 10:34PM EDT MARCH 24, 2013

European Union leaders agreed on a bailout package intended to keep Cyprus in the euro zone and rebuild its devastated economy.

The deal, struck after hours of meetings, was approved by the finance ministers from the euro zone, the 17 countries that use the common currency. It would drastically prune the size of Cyprus’s oversized banking sector and scrap the highly controversial idea of a tax on bank deposits,_ although it would still require forced losses for depositors and bondholders_.

Emphasis added.


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## George Caplan (Mar 25, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Mar 24 said:


> FROM THE NY TIMES: 10:34PM EDT MARCH 24, 2013
> 
> European Union leaders agreed on a bailout package intended to keep Cyprus in the euro zone and rebuild its devastated economy.
> 
> ...



like i said they will come up with a bailout monday. and they did. but they always do and they always leave it to the last second. and they always will.
where does that leave cyprus? their banking is now kaput because no one will trust them ever again and they are still in the euro which means no one will go there which includes tourism because what else have you got. :roll:


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## Tatu (Mar 25, 2013)

George Caplan @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> like i said they will come up with a bailout monday. and they did. but they always do and they always leave it to the last second. and they always will.
> where does that leave cyprus? their banking is now kaput because no one will trust them ever again and they are still in the euro which means no one will go there which includes tourism because what else have you got. :roll:



And there's always a hurry. "We've got only hours to solve this or the world as we know it will come to an end!", even though the cyprus-situation has been out in the open since 2011 or so. And in the end, within those critical few last minutes, they decide to save the banksters by taking from the tax-payers.


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## Hannes_F (Mar 25, 2013)

Daryl @ Thu Mar 21 said:


> Agreed, but these countries should never have been allowed to join the Euro in the first place. That was just the stupidity of the French and Germans trying to force an ideology on everyone, whether or not it was actually practical.
> 
> D



The stupidity was this:

The European Idea should have mainly been about a cultural exchange where everybody learns to know the other's way of thinking and living in order to take the best of it (not the worst) home - but still keep the own individuality. Personal exchange on all levels with people returning to their home countries after a while is one of the best things imo to learn that there are humans on the other side of the fence after all and also to bring a fresh breeze back to the own country. I mean that absolutely mutually.

Instead, it all was dumbed down to economy where one wants to be an "European" either in order to get access to funds or to please the own vanity. Motives like greed or vanity will always yield an according outcome.

My hope is that there are still many people in all countries with a sense of humanity that remember what it is all about: Learning, understandig, inner growth. Economy has to be brought back to its place as a means to this purpose.


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## George Caplan (Mar 25, 2013)

massive trouble for cyprus now. and look out in germany because the russians are going to be very upset and their focus will turn to german companies in russia. this is going to be a big story.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 26, 2013)

Okay, I now know what the troika is.

Anyway, PK feels they should leave the Euro right now. It makes sense to me.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/0 ... seriously/


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## chimuelo (Mar 26, 2013)

I"m with PK too.
But he leaves out the Nat Gas recerves which BP will certainly silently await the chance to help.
Nations need energy right now, growth is the way out, so the time for half mesures and enviromental attempts at stopping this will fall on deaf ears.


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## nikolas (Mar 26, 2013)

Bull...

Nice theoretical talk from PK, but unless a country has something substantial to offer there's no way to survive in the next A LOT OF years outside euro: Cyprus has always been about laundring russian money (duh!!), and not much else. Even as a tourist attraction it's rather small (then again as a country it's tiny, ok there). There's nothing else to export, absolutely nothing. And it's the same with Greece: What on earth is Greece exporting right now? Not even our sea or sun since we're constantly screwing up tourism day by day by month by month!

So, if we don't have anything to produce, how exactly will Cyprus (or Greece for that matter) grow enough oranges, onions, milk, cows, whatever is actually useful to live (let alone drive, have computers, etc). By printing more money by default?!?? Yeah right...

And of course there's the other issue: Right now ESPECIALLY Greece has been an extremely bad paying customer. There's little to no trust. If we do decide to defunk (same with Cyprus on this point) then who on earth would trust us to lend us any money? We're already not getting any products on SOR (Sale or Return) anymore...

I just loath (REALLY REALLY HATE) when people outside of this situation have various ideas about war and other BC!


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## Daryl (Mar 27, 2013)

nikolas, I'm with you on all of this. The big, big problem is all of these issues need to be sorted out when a country is not going bankrupt. In that way a considered, measured way of dealing with things can be sorted out. Of course this never happens; when things are going well nobody wants to prepare for the rainy day.

If Cyprus leaves the Euro, their whole EU membership would be in doubt. That would make exports much more expensive, so they would be totally reliant on tourism. If this could be sustained, it might work, as long as the government accepted that to keep their country alive and kicking, they would need to make things very easy (read cheap) for the tourist. However, this won't happen, because the temptation to fleece the foreigner would be too tempting, forgetting that many visitors spending small amounts of money is preferable to a few visitors spending twice as much.

D


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## nikolas (Mar 27, 2013)

I know Daryl,

But between me and you (and the whole world) I think that more and more Greece (up to a point) and Cyprus with that ridiculous 'No' is getting to point of no return: There is a certain point when Europe can quite easily say "Go fuck yourselves" and in all honesty I won't blame them... Nobody should blame them eventually, since we're acting this way.

And remember I'm Greek and this is hurting me more than anyone else in here probably (unless there's a Cypriot or Greek that I don't know about)...


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## chimuelo (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes but Nicolas you don't think that BP and Cypriots can climb back with exports of NatGas which will bring in workers in the thousands, and exports to Britain and China would be huge.
NatGas stocks grow all the time while the word is silent. That's a great sign.

CHinese refueling stations are already popping up here in the SWest.
I agree w/ PK, but he just left out the NatGas factor like everyone else who is invested in it. His idea of leaving the Euro is probably the best choice as the Russian Oligarchs aren't coming back.

BTW I was hoping you would chime in, as you are the only guy here who ever lived there.
Tell me you've seen the Hot Gates of Thermopylae, it's been my inspirations since I was a kid, and it was Richard Egan, not the photoshopped Gerard Butler....


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## George Caplan (Mar 27, 2013)

chimuelo @ Wed Mar 27 said:


> Yes but Nicolas you don't think that BP and Cypriots can climb back with exports of NatGas which will bring in workers in the thousands, and exports to Britain and China would be huge.



yeah they are running out of gas as in gas for heating and cooking here and i was heading for the airport for a second early.

they should have never been in this disaster called the euro. this was always going to happen. and i dont care about whether youre greek or your father was a diplomat and your mother was a fashion victim or anything like that. krugman is right and i am right and for once i agree with krugman and i know a lot more about it than you do even if i was living on mars. ok. 8)

that said this is organized theft in cyprus. i feel sympathy for the cypriots and the germans may want to think hard in their upcoming elections before this whole thing gets really out of hand if thats even more possible.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 27, 2013)

Daryl wrote:



> If Cyprus leaves the Euro, their whole EU membership would be in doubt. That would make exports much more expensive, so they would be totally reliant on tourism.



Their currency would be devalued, making exports less expensive. Are you talking about trade barriers?

George, now that I've agreed with you that the Euro was a bad idea, someone raised another point that I missed: it might have worked out if the financial industry hadn't misbehaved!


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## nikolas (Mar 27, 2013)

Chimuelo: I have a dear friend who is still working for Vegas Oil. Been in Egypt for 4-5 years, and took off overnight on a military helicopter, when the riots broke loose...

his comment was very simple: If there's gas/oil to be found in Greece we're fucked! simple as that! Because there isn't a single country, outside of Scandinavia that has oil and is doing well... 

That with my wife's experience in working in Baku, Azerbaijan, makes it very clear: OUCH BIG TIME!


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## Daryl (Mar 27, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Mar 27 said:


> Daryl wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As an EU member, there is no import Duty payable by the consumer. As an non-EU member, there would be Duty payable, so the price to the customer would rise. The devaluation of the currency wouldn't necessarily make goods much cheaper to produce either, so overall, it would likely make it harder to export goods. Of course this would depend on Cyprus actually having goods that the rest of Europe wanted.

D


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 27, 2013)

I'm not sure about that economic analysis, Daryl.

Nikolas, PK isn't saying this isn't a disaster, he's saying that it'll be quicker for Cyprus to figure out a new second half of their economy if it leaves the Euro. In other words, the price of staying in the Euro is much higher than the price of their leaving it. It's not just detached theory!


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## chimuelo (Mar 27, 2013)

And Nicolas, I wasn't talking about Oil, but the huge natural gas reserves.
It is the only logical next step to alternative energy, it has less damage to the enviroment, and is cheaper so the economies can boom, even one who aren't set up for that.

We are transforming over to it big time, although the Greens have a hold on the current administration the pipeline is being built, friends of mine ae on it, worls largest Solar fields are going up in Nevada and Calfiornia, Electric Cars are being brought on line, and failing, but still are being funded, NatGas refueling plants and stations are being set up, we have several here in Vegas since we suffer from Dust and CO2 mixing in peak months.

I just don;t see NatGas causing any economy to falter, can't even find one.
But I hope your girlfriend and you are safe in case you're in any of these shit holes.

And PKs attitude sounds genuine, even he admits he just said what was on his mond, rather than the usual right/left blatherings and green merchants want to hear.


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## nikolas (Mar 27, 2013)

Nick (and chimuelo): I know I mentioned oil too many times, but I hardly think gas will be any different for what I'm talking about. Cheaper, better for the environment, etc, doesn't change how the big guys will play against governments and countries... After all if you think about it's not far off what's happening right now.

And, if I may say, I do see what PK is talking about and from a logical point of view it makes sense: But we Greeks are arses about everything and the Cypriots have a very strong feeling that somehow the whole world owes it to them. And these are not going away any time soon... So, exactly because I live here, consider me very worried should we, or the Cypriots leave the euro zone.



> But I hope your girlfriend and you are safe in case you're in any of these [email protected]#t holes.


We will be fine as long as my wife doesn't find out about my girlfriend! :D lol


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 27, 2013)

A few years ago, a girl in a department store offered me a sample of a scent. No thanks. "What about for your wife or your girlfriend?"

I still don't know why she didn't laugh when I said neither one of them uses perfume.


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## nikolas (Mar 27, 2013)

She obviously didn't get it! I hope chimuelo does! :D


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## chimuelo (Mar 27, 2013)

I gave up a fine harem of waittail cocktresses to get married for the 2nd time.
Now I am a good loyal man until I get pissed off again.
But when a gal cooks and buys me hardware or DSP Plug ins, that's way above the call of Booty.


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## George Caplan (Mar 28, 2013)

so in cyprus at the moment you can take out 300 euros a day and take out of the country no more than 1000 euros at a time. anyone want to do the math. technically cyprus is now out side the eurozone. how anyone can fuck a country economy for a 10 billion bailout is beyond belief. the amount of cypriots that will lose their jobs an so on. word is this will take 5 years ago to recover. i dont think so. they will never recover.


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## Hannes_F (Mar 28, 2013)

George Caplan @ Thu Mar 28 said:


> how anyone can f#@k a country economy for a 10 billion bailout is beyond belief.



Can you elaborate? You are saying that the 10 billion bailout is Cyprus' biggest problem and wasted its economy?

Hmm no, you probably say that staying in the Euro zone is their biggest problem and wastes their economy. And they sold that chance to evade from the euro for 10 billions. Is that what you say?

Bottom line in either case: Cyprus is not to blame for anything, it is all the EU. No wait, it's all the Germans. Ah, now I understand.

Did you bet money on the disaggregation of the EU or will be earning money in that case?


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## George Caplan (Mar 28, 2013)

they bailed ireland for around 10 billion. their banking system was and still is a joke. no one made anyone in ireland pay from deposit accounts. why was that do you think?
i would say dont go to cyprus on holiday right now. may not be a good idea.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 28, 2013)

Hannes, you have a very curious attitude!


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## George Caplan (Mar 28, 2013)

hannes cypriot banks were 8 times cypriot gdp. that was their main source of income. i dont give a rats ass what anyone thinks or could care less what they think they know about money laundering. that is all propaganda bs. they just said goodbye to the cypriot economy for nothing. they being the eu. the main eu player is angela merkel. what is it about that you dont understand? what you think its some sort of club and all germans should agree because angela says so?

the eu is supposed to be about administration. where in its articles does it say anything about punishment?


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## nikolas (Mar 28, 2013)

You know what George? for a guy who apparently doesn't live in Europe, has never posted anything about music, and has 1175 posts thus far you have a pretty aggressive attitude about things that may be quite sensitive to some of us.

What say you tone down a bit?


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## Diffusor (Mar 28, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Mar 24 said:


> And George, I may not be able to tell you anything about bonds, but you might not be aware that there's a raging argument over which one of us is right about this.
> 
> Actually, the argument is as valid as the one over global warming, because the people who predicted that QE wouldn't lead to runaway inflation have been proven right for about five years now.



I don't know what planet you live on but have you seen the prices on food lately? They are skyrocketing. Recently I bought a can of tuna that used to be around 65 cents which now was like a $1.14. Pretty much the prices of everything has gone up in the past few years. but particularly recently.

Global Warming. lol Maybe you missed those recent reports and data released by those fraudsters where they finally admit (or changed the goalposts) there hasn't been any warming for over a decade and will continue flat until around 2017 or more. It's safe to say their "models" have been proved totally wrong on all fronts and will continue to be proved wrong.


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## Hannes_F (Mar 28, 2013)

OK ... two things, friends.

1st: George - you did not answer my question whether you would earn from a downfall of the Euro. Interesting.

2nd: Let me say something about Europe in general from my POV:

My grandfather's generation was brought up starving and learned in school that Britain was to be blamed. Just imagine that. They literally learned to pray "God punish England" in school every morning. It was not too difficult to motivate them for WWII later.

I was brought up as a part of a europe-friendly generation. Was in Britain and France during school programs and made friends there, and have been for visits in nine more european countries since. Whenever I walked on the street in any of those countries and talked to people I found them to be friendly. Unthinkable for me to shoot on any of them. It would be like shooting at my brother (a brother that does not necessarily in all cases like me as much as I like him but still).

Think of that precious progress within two generations. And I for one am not willing to treat that carelessly.

It seems to me that some are deliberately throwing burning matches as much as they can, hoping they hit the fuel tank sooner or later, and destroy this process. Their propaganda uses _no matter what _is in the news of the day in order to give an anti-european interpretation. Whether a bailout comes or comes not, either way it will be used. And this is only one of many examples. Every fact is distorted and warped in order to fit. This is very clear but more a reason to pity them than anything else.

I for one do not want the old times back. Money problems are serious and they must be solved for sure. But anybody that has a feeling for the historic perspective of this, considering that in the middle age even citizens of the same place were in armed war with each other (as it had been the case centuries ago with the very place where I grew up), and compare that with today, must feel there is much more than mere money to Europe.


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## George Caplan (Mar 28, 2013)

Hannes_F @ Thu Mar 28 said:


> OK ... two things, friends.
> 
> 1st: George - you did not answer my question whether you would earn from a downfall of the Euro. Interesting.



you know hannes there's no way i can answer that because in order to answer that I would have to know why that is of any interest to anyone.



Hannes_F @ Thu Mar 28 said:


> My grandfather's generation was brought up starving and learned in school that Britain was to be blamed. Just imagine that. They literally learned to pray "God punish England" in school every morning.



well I don't know anything about that but I would say that backfired. and the euro zone and eu has also managed to do the same. i am about to return home but ask just about anyone in the uk today about being in the eu and you will be disappointed.


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## Daryl (Mar 28, 2013)

George Caplan @ Thu Mar 28 said:


> .... but ask just about anyone in the uk today about being in the eu and you will be disappointed.


Not really. There are two separate questions; being in the EU and being in the Euro. They are not the same thing. You also have to realise that the knee-jerk reaction of Sun readers is responsible for a lot of the hype you may be reading about. Intelligent people know that it is far more complicated, and for people who regularly do business with Europe, being in the EU is a mostly good thing.

The only issue that most people in the UK are interested in, is how much control the EU should have over our laws and culture, and that is certainly a talking point on which everyone has an opinion.

D


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 28, 2013)

Hannes, I'm not sure why you think that has much to do with what Cypress should do.

Their banks are basically out of business - half their economy - and just staying on the Euro won't help them pay back the money they've lost. You can't eat brotherhood!


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## Hannes_F (Mar 28, 2013)

George Caplan @ Thu Mar 28 said:


> Hannes_F @ Thu Mar 28 said:
> 
> 
> > OK ... two things, friends.
> ...



It is of interest to because since you are here in the forum you are agitating against the EU almost fanatically and I wonder why and what your hidden agenda is.

Almost every single bit of what you write is not true. It is simply a lie if you say that the EU is punishing Cyprus. It is a lie if you say that the cypriot economy was wasted for nothing. The naked truth is that the EU could not worsen or better anything if Cyprus hadn't wasted their economy by themselves long before. And the truth is that that the EU interrelates their FURTHER HELP with conditions, nothing more. It is unbelievable that you contort that simple fact, and you should be ashamed for even trying it. And since my question was very clear why not answer it with a clear yes or no?

This is a musician's forum and music is one factor that has always had one of the most healing powers in terms of international exchange and tolerance. This forum is no exception with all that great mutual help and generously spread expertise. Instead you try to spray poison wherever you can. Again - what is your agenda for doing this here?

To Nick: What I said has at least much to do with how we feel in Germany. The majority here still has hope that with time people will see through the flimsy but internationally massive propaganda (such as George's) and get back to the naked facts: Bottom line there is massive HELP (means concrete Euros) going into countries like Cyprus and at the moment we are still willing to work for it. Maybe you know that meanwhile the raise of the retirement age in Germany from 67 years to 69 (!) years is discussed. And also there is still hope that all that money will and must have an effect sooner or later.

People here realize more and more that for all that help that we supply we are getting slandered more and more. We have the ability to endure that a bit but I hope it will not go over the pain barrier one day because that day the war profiteer types would have won.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 28, 2013)

Again, I find that a curious way to look at the result of a popped real estate bubble and a greedy financial industry. What propaganda are you talking about? Who is slandering Germany?


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## nikolas (Mar 28, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Mar 29 said:


> Again, I find that a curious way to look at the result of a popped real estate bubble and a greedy financial industry. What propaganda are you talking about? Who is slandering Germany?


You don't have the friends that I have in facebook (because they're Greeks): Believe me that almost everyone has a german flag with various slogans underneath:

"NO! to the killers"
"NO! to the nazi!"
"Boycott German products"
"Get Germany to pay the money they owe from WW2"

and other rubbish like that...

_____________________

If you ask me this whole deal with austerity measures is not going anywhere. Forcing a very strict agenda of this type in a northern country might work (Ireland), but for southern countries it's a different issue. And while Ireland, previously Iceland, etc have a very specific type of problem (banking issue), the problem of Greece is utterly different: It's a problem of 100% corruption in everything that's been done here and a complete failure as a society. 

Same goes for Cyprus: Had they not invested everything into laundring money perhaps there was a way out. But not anymore. They went a said "No!", fucked up big time with this, went to Russia, got their faces slammed on the door and now they're back to... austerity measures! YAY for nothing!

______________________

George you failed to actually answer me at all. Now Hannes is asking you the exact same thing: What is it that you're doing here? Are you taking advantage of a forum were we tolerate political talk? If so you should remind your self that this remains a musicians forum and one that goes by this simple phrase: "Musicians helping musicians!".


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## rayinstirling (Mar 29, 2013)

George Caplan @ Thu Mar 28 said:


> . i am about to return home but ask just about anyone in the uk today about being in the eu and you will be disappointed.



George,
Have a safe journey home. Don't hurry back on our (UK or Europe) account.
BTW before you go could you maybe just post a short cue, you know just something to say you're here because of music and not just as a sh*t stirrer.

Kind Regards
Ray


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## Hannes_F (Mar 29, 2013)

nikolas @ Fri Mar 29 said:


> If you ask me this whole deal with austerity measures is not going anywhere. Forcing a very strict agenda of this type in a northern country might work (Ireland), but for southern countries it's a different issue.



Nikolas, I agree with that. New and creative ways have to be found, and for that the activity of all participants is needed. A long way of change needs strong motivation and insight and also some little success every now and then. It is a catastrophe that we currently loose the hearts of so many people without whom this whole mutual understanding process can not work.



Daryl said:


> The only issue that most people in the UK are interested in, is how much control the EU should have over our laws and culture



Same here, actually. As I see it the current EU laws are a first draft and need to be refined at some point in order to grant diversity in unity. The EU is generally too much about making all and everything equal and a better version of it will hopefully let every country and group have their individuality where still everybody learns from the others and works together.


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## George Caplan (Mar 29, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Mar 28 said:


> Again, I find that a curious way to look at the result of a popped real estate bubble and a greedy financial industry. What propaganda are you talking about? Who is slandering Germany?



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

excactly. love it when people get personal. shows theyre listening. 8)

i dont know what cyprus has to do with music but for the benefit of ray here is a bach piece yes that would be bach from germany of me in an intermission playing my zuckermann. 

https://soundcloud.com/midcap/italian-concerto-presto


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## nikolas (Mar 29, 2013)

George Caplan @ Fri Mar 29 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Mar 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Again, I find that a curious way to look at the result of a popped real estate bubble and a greedy financial industry. What propaganda are you talking about? Who is slandering Germany?
> ...


bulllshit. You ignored me for the second time, and moreover yu failed to read my reply about slanderingn germany. Well done on proving that you're a troll!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 29, 2013)

> Forcing a very strict agenda of this type in a northern country might work (Ireland),



It hasn't worked there either. Not at all. And how could it.

But I was oblivious to the anti-German stuff.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 29, 2013)

Don't bother asking-of course george is shorting the Euro. He's shorting the pound sterling as well. You see this on financial sites daily. You didn't think he was concerned about any of this on a PERSONAL level, did you?? Ha!

Btw, this has been a very educational thread. Between Nikolas and Hannes in particular, I've learned a lot and gained new perspectives to ponder. I'm grateful for that.


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## George Caplan (Mar 30, 2013)

did you guys get on amazon over the last 2 months?


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