# Studio one 5.1 and Cubase 11 for Orchestral, film, Heavy stuff



## JashandeepReehal (Jan 6, 2021)

Hi. I had a question. Studio one 5.1 is working and so is Cubase 11. Which of these is better for writing with Orchestral libraries, Working with Film and bug templates. I have read other places and not convinced completely. Put up your experiences


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## Trensharo (Jan 6, 2021)

Have both. Definitely prefer Cubase. However, I really just love the way Studio One handles Templates. The way you can just drag and drop tracks and folders from them i to your session a d it brings almost everything across with it. You can easily get spoiled by that...


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 6, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> Have both. Definitely prefer Cubase. However, I really just love the way Studio One handles Templates. The way you can just drag and drop tracks and folders from them i to your session a d it brings almost everything across with it. You can easily get spoiled by that...


Yes. Exactly the thing. Just the workflow in Studio one. How accessible and easy it is to do. Very simplified working. I am still figuring out a lot in Cubase. Studio one is like just that there in your face. This thing is making me have difficulties in decision


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 6, 2021)

Both have demos. Only you can make the decision after using both yourself. Neither will make your music better.


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 6, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Both have demos. Only you can make the decision after using both yourself. Neither will make your music better.


Demoed Studio one too and Cubase too. Thats more trouble in decision. The thing I see is that studio one though awesome has still a lot to go for. It's has great things but still lacks a lot of those features which may be available in the coming years. Not right now. That's why I cme here. Studio one is gonna be greater in some time in future but is it safe to invest in it right now or go the cubase route right now and if studio one improved those features, switch later?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 6, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> Demoed Studio one too and Cubase too. Thats more trouble in decision. The thing I see is that studio one though awesome has still a lot to go for. It's has great things but still lacks a lot of those features which may be available in the coming years. Not right now. That's why I cme here. Studio one is gonna be greater in some time in future but is it safe to invest in it right now or go the cubase route right now and if studio one improved those features, switch later?



You’re asking us to predict the future? Nobody knows what Studio One will become. We can only tell you what it is right now. Same with Cubase. Pick the one that you like and move on.


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 6, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You’re asking us to predict the future? Nobody knows what Studio One will become. We can only tell you what it is right now. Same with Cubase. Pick the one that you like and move on.


Ok. Then right now. Cause I couldn't explore everything and my trial expires. I have no worries working in any of the two. I just want one that has more orchestration and film,composing features right today. Which one has more?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 6, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> Ok. Then right now. Cause I couldn't explore everything and my trial expires. I have no worries working in any of the two. I just want one that has more orchestration and film,composing features right today. Which one has more?



Cubase.


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 6, 2021)

Thank you. 😊


ALittleNightMusic said:


> Cubase.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jan 6, 2021)

For working with film, Cubase is still the better option.
Studio One is catching up quickly though...


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 6, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> For working with film, Cubase is still the better option.
> Studio One is catching up quickly though...


Yeah. The video in studio one is just horrible right now. It has a strong future though


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## Trensharo (Jan 6, 2021)

Studio One has the most basic implementation of Articulation Maps of any DAW I've tried, as well. Even Cakewalk's implementation of this feature is far superior. PreSonus did absolute bare minimum, there.

If you need that feature, Cubase definitely has the upper hand. It has so much more for MIDI composition. Studio One is better for beat making, though.


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## khollister (Jan 7, 2021)

While I'm on a Mac (and thus Logic Pro is in the mix), I have recently been trying to decide on moving from Cubase to S1 or just go back to Logic (which I used for years before Cubase). Here's my current experience:

Cubase has a couple major functional advantages over S1 in video integration and articulation management. Both of these can be worked around, but tend to dilute the S1 workflow experience.

There are numerous other differences, but IMHO a lot of them fall into either workflow specifics (_how_ you do something, not _what_ you can do) or features that are cool but aren't make or break funcrtional things for many. In general I would characterize S1 as easier and more "fun" to use with its biggest draw being the more modern and efficient workflow. Cubase may be the most fully featured DAW but using it is often more difficult/less efficient without extensive customization. 

I don't do much music to picture so I can't personally comment on the S1 video deficits (I do "concert music" for lack of a better term). Cubase's expression map feature is very comprehensive, but has an old and confusing UI and currently has a known bug although there is a workaround. Studio One's keyswitching feature works fine, is easy to use, but is not ideal for things like VSL Synchron or VI Pro players, EW HWO or libraries that use complicated articulation techniques. If you use primarily Spitfire stuff (Kontakt or their player) or other libraries that rely on single MIDI channel keyswitches, S1 is great. But for stuff that requires MIDI channel switching (HWO/PLAY), CC (Spitfire UACC) or multiple simultaneous keyswitches (VSL Synchron), the articulation management is either useless or less than ideal from a workflow standpoint. Of course the alternative is to just do it like the old days - separate tracks or embed the keyswitches/CC's in the MIDI track. 

I will say S1 has the most straighforward and easy to use multi-timbral/multi-output implementation I have used. The mixer is also the most flexible in my opinion. 

I'm pretty sure at this point I'm leaving Cubase behind and going to focus on either S1 or Logic.

There are some performance considerations as well, but since I suspect you are on Windows, I'll pass over those as not applicable.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 7, 2021)

On Windows I'd try Cakewalk too, that's between Cubase and S1 featurewise - it has at least a working video thumbnail track.


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 7, 2021)

khollister said:


> While I'm on a Mac (and thus Logic Pro is in the mix), I have recently been trying to decide on moving from Cubase to S1 or just go back to Logic (which I used for years before Cubase). Here's my current experience:
> 
> Cubase has a couple major functional advantages over S1 in video integration and articulation management. Both of these can be worked around, but tend to dilute the S1 workflow experience.
> 
> ...


That was really good detailed help. Yes. Cause I tend to do most multi out instruments in kontakt. And studio one is really great. For everything is instrument track. Just route to an instrument. easier to work around. Whereas in cubase, there is instrument tracks and midi track and mixing is a bit hell in that. Workflow is definitely way faster and easier to do in studio one for me. I am on Cubase trial version and I am honestly still figuring out the basic things. Quite hard to get around there. 
Articulation stuff I mostly use basic single key switch, NOW, So not much needed. Also forgot to mention. I am limited budget. I have Studio One 5 Artist, can't get PRO yet due to some limiting functionality in Artist I thought of switching to Cubase Elements, which I would be able to get by selling the artist license. Cause elements definitely has more features and better features than Artist. And I need the features. But honestly, the workflow and things in studio one though very basic in my version are really making me stick to it. Just so easy and accessible. I need score And video. Which is in Cubase but...... Having trouble deciding. Can't have both yet. If someone buys a couple plugins from me, namely Izotope, neutron, nectar, elements, I may be able to upgrade my Cubase LE license to elements. And I can have both studio one Artist and Cubase elements and have the best of both.


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## AudioLoco (Jan 7, 2021)

A matter of workflow and taste, but Cubase is more widely used in the industry....


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 7, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> A matter of workflow and taste, but Cubase is more widely used in the industry....


Yeah. Cause I wanna be a film composer. I am 17 right now and in last year of high school. Will finish in 2022. And then college and stuff. And most probably during that, interning or assisstants to composers and most work in Cubase. And close to none in studio one YET. So I have to know Cubase.


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## AudioLoco (Jan 7, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> Yeah. Cause I wanna be a film composer. I am 17 right now and in last year of high school. Will finish in 2022. And then college and stuff. And most probably during that, interning or assisstants to composers and most work in Cubase. And close to none in studio one YET. So I have to know Cubase.


I wish I was that young.... 
You got plenty of time to learn Cubase then. Try to learn it as deep as possible, as assistants often get hired if they know the tech stuff even better then the actual composer....
Best of luck!


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## khollister (Jan 7, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> Yeah. Cause I wanna be a film composer. I am 17 right now and in last year of high school. Will finish in 2022. And then college and stuff. And most probably during that, interning or assisstants to composers and most work in Cubase. And close to none in studio one YET. So I have to know Cubase.


Ah - well that makes it a bit easier - Cubase it is then. Cubase, Logic and ProTools are the big three in the film scoring world (ProTools more for audio, not composition).


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 7, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> I wish I was that young....
> You got plenty of time to learn Cubase then. Try to learn it as deep as possible, as assistants often get hired if they know the tech stuff even better then the actual composer....
> Best of luck!


Thanks a lot. I will first try to save up for elements. Then slowly move up. Thank you


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 7, 2021)

khollister said:


> Ah - well that makes it a bit easier - Cubase it is then. Cubase, Logic and ProTools are the big three in the film scoring world (ProTools more for audio, not composition).


Yeah. Although it seems that studio one may become among the bigs in the future but we can't rely on that fact. Cubase it is. Thanks


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## wst3 (Jan 8, 2021)

*TL;DR*
slightly different perspective... and while you should take this with a grain of salt, if I were in your shoes I'd go with Cakewalk. You mentioned budget. The cut down versions of Studio One and Cubase are quite limited. You can get the full version of Cakewalk by Bandlab for free. Budget is important!

Cakewalk has all the major features, and the workflow is (to me) a little more straightforward than Cubase. The user community is huge, and very helpful. The developers are pretty responsive. And since you are not making a huge financial investment the business issues are less important.

*The details:*
I used Sonar for its entire lifespan, and I still have Cakewalk by Bandlab installed. I'm hesitant to depend on it because that business model my not work out. So far so good.

I used Cubase and Logic way back when, before I used Cakewalk Pro Audio. And I do have a license for Digital Performer, but it was not ideal for Windows. I also used Texture and Bars&PipesPro (Amiga only).

Every one of them has something I like! And I can't have them all. And none of them does everything well.

For me it comes down to specific features and workflow. It is, near as I can tell, impossible to make material changes to the workflow that the designers intended.

Features do matter, and support for video is a nice to have, articualtion management is a must have. I had gone so far as to download the latest demo for Cubase when both Presonus and Bandlab announced their articulation management features. I hate it when that happens!

For me it looks something like this:
Features - I don't need video support right now (although it wold be nice to have). I do need articulation management, and Cakewalk wins there, but I can use third party utilities to handle some of the shortcomings in Studio One. Cakewalk and Studio One are tied in this category.

Work Flow - Studio One is currently my favorite, it has nearly every feature I need, and the workflow fits me like a glove (I did have to get used to a couple things). Studio One is the clear winner, in spite of the fact that I know Cakewalk inside and out. I was surprised by that.

Company - Steienberg and Presonus are both stable companies that are not going anywhere. I find Presonus support to be much more responsive that Steinberg. And Presonus is rolling out minor updates to add features, I'm not sure Steinberg does that. Bandlab is a wildcard, made a bit wilder by their business model of giving Sonar away. I think Studio One wins in this category.

So for ME, Studio One seems to make the most sense, and that is where I am focusing my efforts.

For you? No one can really tell you. If using a current industry standard is important then you need to learn to use Cubase and Pro Tools. If learning to produce great music is the goal then you can skip over that step for now, you have plenty of time to standardize, and in five years the standards may be different.


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 10, 2021)

I have another question. I don't know ow what they are. They say that cubase has more "midi editing" Features than studio one. What are those? Can someone elaborate?


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## Lukas (Jan 10, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> They say that cubase has more "midi editing" Features than studio one.


Really? Who? 

Well... Cubase supports SysEx, Studio One doesn't. Cubase has an Event List Editor, Studio One hasn't. Is this MIDI editing? Does everybody need it? I don't know.


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 10, 2021)

Lukas said:


> Really? Who?
> 
> Well... Cubase supports SysEx, Studio One doesn't. Cubase has an Event List Editor, Studio One hasn't. Is this MIDI editing? Does everybody need it? I don't know.


That's what I thought. I write orchestral arrangements and I think studio one has everything that cubase has. Could see what people were referring to. Everywhere I reas the comparison, people are saying that cubase has more midi stuff than s1. Even if it has, I don't think it is something that anyone uses, right?


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## Lukas (Jan 11, 2021)

I would have agreed in 2015. A huge amount of things has been changed and added since then, especially in terms of MIDI editing.

I personally miss only very small details.


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 11, 2021)

Lukas said:


> I would have agreed in 2015. A huge amount of things has been changed and added since then, especially in terms of MIDI editing.
> 
> I personally miss only very small details.


Thank you. Just what I wanted to know. Thanks a lot


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## samphony (Jan 11, 2021)

Lukas said:


> I would have agreed in 2015. A huge amount of things has been changed and added since then, especially in terms of MIDI editing.
> 
> I personally miss only very small details.


Hey Luke,

i wish placing one or multiple selected events could be spotted to an exact frame or bar. But i don’t need a list for that!


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## Lukas (Jan 11, 2021)

samphony said:


> i wish placing one or multiple selected events could be spotted to an exact frame or bar. But i don’t need a list for that!


Do you mean that they should be fixed to a certain time / frame although the tempo changes etc.? If so, I don't understand why you referred to bars...!? Or do you just want to select events, enter a bar / second / frame number and set them all to the same position?


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## wst3 (Jan 11, 2021)

I seldom find the need for an event list these days, but boy, when you need one you need one. I hope they eventually add it, even if only a few dinosaurs even remember what it is<G>.

I don't use MIDI Sysex right now because my hardware synthesizers are disconnected while I sort some things out. I used to use it for finished projects in place of MIDIQuest, but it is really pretty simple to just use MIDIQuest, so this is a less important feature for me. However, if you have MIDI hardware and you aren't using MIDIQuest (and it is no only expensive, but maybe overkill for a lot of applications) then you really do need Sysex support. I think it would lend some credibility to the platform as well.

In terms of actually recording and editing? I haven't run into any problems or missing features yet.


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## Al Maurice (Jan 11, 2021)

Studio One for me is plagued with stability issues. For instance with the latest updates if I try to import any midi file, it creates a core dump and just crashes outright. This required me to roll back to an earlier version of SO 5, which makes many of the new features just lame.

Also certain libraries after a while causes Kontakt to crash, and takes the application down with it.

So it would seem as yet MIDI isn't a major priority for Presonus.


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## Lukas (Jan 11, 2021)

Al Maurice said:


> Studio One for me is plagued with stability issues. For instance with the latest updates if I try to import any midi file, it creates a core dump and just crashes outright. This required me to roll back to an earlier version of SO 5, which makes many of the new features just lame.


There are no known stability issues related to MIDI import in the latest public version. Did you contact the tech support?



Al Maurice said:


> Also certain libraries after a while causes Kontakt to crash, and takes the application down with it.


So you say that *Studio One* is unstable because your *plug-ins* crash. Sigh.



Al Maurice said:


> So it would seem as yet MIDI isn't a major priority for Presonus.


So you say that MIDI isn't a major priority for PreSonus because your plug-ins crash. I see.


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## shponglefan (Jan 11, 2021)

Lukas said:


> So you claim that *Studio One* is unstable because your *plug-ins* crash. Sigh.


In fairness, certain other DAWs do provide options for running plug-ins in a more isolated manner whereby a plug-in crash would not bring down the whole DAW.

I haven't looked into it yet, but does Studio One provide this option?


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## Lukas (Jan 11, 2021)

shponglefan said:


> In fairness, certain other DAWs do provide options for running plug-ins in a more isolated manner whereby a plug-in crash would not bring down the whole DAW.


Which ones besides Bitwig Studio?

No, Studio One does not provide a sandbox for plug-ins. Plug-ins running in a sandboxed environment introduce additional latency and are potentially heavier on resources. So this kind of isolation is not the solution for everything and comes at a cost. And it shouldn't lead to plug-in developers not keeping their software stable.


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## shponglefan (Jan 11, 2021)

Lukas said:


> Which ones besides Bitwig Studio?
> 
> No, Studio One does not provide a sandbox for plug-ins. Plug-ins running in a sandboxed environment introduce additional latency and are potentially heavier on resources. So this kind of isolation is not the solution for everything and comes at a cost. And it shouldn't lead to plug-in developers not keeping their software stable.


Reaper does as well.

I do agree that the onus is on plug-in developers to create stable plug ins. But the option of running a plugin in an isolated instance is something that DAW developers could accommodate if they wanted.


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## PaulieDC (Jan 11, 2021)

Haven't really read the whole thread, but here goes: I fell in love and committed to Studio One in 2013 when I was NOT doing any MIDI work. I was tracking instruments and vocals in church services then mixing everything after the fact. With built-in Melodyne, Mastering, one of the friendliest and efficient UI's, and a simple login for licensing, it was a no-brainer. I got bit by the MIDI Orchestration bug a few years ago, rebuilt my tower in 2018 with a 14-core i9 and found out that Studio One 4 CHOKED when trying to handled larger compositions, and Notion was not compatible with i9's (took them 2 years to fix). In March 2019 I switched to Cubase 10. I discovered something: Steinberg was puffing its feathers about all these new features they've added to 10 Pro (at that time) and I was a little baffled... this was stuff Studio One had in version THREE. BUT, it ran like a dream on my rig especially after investing in an RME BabyFace Pro, and so I committed to Cubase and I'm still fine with that to this day. But I realized something starting with Cubase 10 now that I look back at different version history: The Studio One Dev Team is partly ex-Cubase programmers, and I'm not sure if this adds to the situation, but Steinberg needed to respond to the very cool stuff Studio One had to offer as part of the user experience. To Steinberg's credit, they DID and now Cubase is a hard DAW to beat especially on the Win platform. It's like the best of both worlds. I've also noticed that the majority of tutorials and other things are usually in Cubase format, and it's one of the industry originals. So if you go the Cubase route it will not be a bad choice at all, because they aren't fading into the rear as it might have appeared at one point... the new kid on the block woke Steinberg up. Just my opinion of course.

So what about Studio One? Worth committing to? I was so ticked that PreSonus had such horrible multicore support and basically told i9 CPU owners "sorry, Notion doesn't work, not sure when we will fix that", that when I ditched them I was DONE. It was even a little heart-breaking, I was so comfy with Studio One felt weird to jump ship. But as a long time programmer, I picked up on a lot of the mega-glut that Cubase's UI is known for and I actually really like it now.

*HOWEVER, Studio One v5.1 changes everything.* v4 was really the pop/rock/EDM tool of choice but VI folks were still stuck with limitations. v5.1 is VERY capable, great Multicore support, the notation app Notion is back in the game, list goes on and on. Should you commit? Before v5.1 I would have said it's risky, but not anymore. I've even noticed on this forum that Studio One users have quadrupled it seems just by posts writing about it. In 2017 when I joined it was hard to find a Studio One user. That's important because PreSonus is very responsive to their customers and more and more VI users are popping up which is why I believe they did so much in the MIDI realm for v5. Look at the FaderPort 8 and 16... how many companies that make a control surface for mixing (with 100mm faders) then respond to customer requests to add MIDI CC functionality on a unit that wasn't originally designed that way, and go "hey, here's MIDI CC control, free in the new firmware update? They just handed us a JLCooper for pete's sake! It's not perfect but now that I'm used to 100mm faders, no going back. POINT IS, I believe you are safe committing to a company like PreSonus, they will continue to expand their ecosystem. I had to fit in that word somewhere, almost makes me sound like I know what I'm talking about. OK, maybe not...

So which do you choose? Studio One is way cheaper and no USB dongle. Cubase is proven and has so much YouTube training available even from major composers, it's crazy. For me, I own both. I have Cubase on my main tower, that's not going to change. I had a full 2nd copy for my laptop but I rarely use my laptop. Solution: I sold Cubase, bought the v5.1 Studio One upgrade and that's on my laptop. No dongle, runs lean, works great. Honestly, if any two DAWs looked like brothers it's Cubase and Studio One, and there's not a huge learning curve. If you are used to Cubase keyboard shortcuts, Studio One has a feature to load shortcuts that match another DAW.

Maybe buy Studio One. I hope the sale is still going. When you want to go to Cubase, there's a crossgrade you can do for practically half the full price. Either one is not a bad choice.


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## Lukas (Jan 11, 2021)

ka00 said:


> it is the plugin host at that moment when the crash occurs.


No. It's the plug-in which crashes.



ka00 said:


> And it’s even more fair to say if that plugin crash doesn’t happen in another DAW.


No. If the plug-in crashes, this means there's a serious problem within the plug-in. If the plug-in does not confirm to the VST 2 / VST 3 protocol properly, it's up to the plug-in developer to fix these issues and ensure compatibility.

Cubase is known for being extremely tolerant in terms of incompatible or badly programmed plug-ins. Studio One does not fix broken or incompatible plug-ins.


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 11, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Haven't really read the whole thread, but here goes: I fell in love and committed to Studio One in 2013 when I was NOT doing any MIDI work. I was tracking instruments and vocals in church services then mixing everything after the fact. With built-in Melodyne, Mastering, one of the friendliest and efficient UI's, and a simple login for licensing, it was a no-brainer. I got bit by the MIDI Orchestration bug a few years ago, rebuilt my tower in 2018 with a 14-core i9 and found out that Studio One 4 CHOKED when trying to handled larger compositions, and Notion was not compatible with i9's (took them 2 years to fix). In March 2019 I switched to Cubase 10. I discovered something: Steinberg was puffing its feathers about all these new features they've added to 10 Pro (at that time) and I was a little baffled... this was stuff Studio One had in version THREE. BUT, it ran like a dream on my rig especially after investing in an RME BabyFace Pro, and so I committed to Cubase and I'm still fine with that to this day. But I realized something starting with Cubase 10 now that I look back at different version history: The Studio One Dev Team is partly ex-Cubase programmers, and I'm not sure if this adds to the situation, but Steinberg needed to respond to the very cool stuff Studio One had to offer as part of the user experience. To Steinberg's credit, they DID and now Cubase is a hard DAW to beat especially on the Win platform. It's like the best of both worlds. I've also noticed that the majority of tutorials and other things are usually in Cubase format, and it's one of the industry originals. So if you go the Cubase route it will not be a bad choice at all, because they aren't fading into the rear as it might have appeared at one point... the new kid on the block woke Steinberg up. Just my opinion of course.
> 
> So what about Studio One? Worth committing to? I was so ticked that PreSonus had such horrible multicore support and basically told i9 CPU owners "sorry, Notion doesn't work, not sure when we will fix that", that when I ditched them I was DONE. It was even a little heart-breaking, I was so comfy with Studio One felt weird to jump ship. But as a long time programmer, I picked up on a lot of the mega-glut that Cubase's UI is known for and I actually really like it now.
> 
> ...


You cleared a lot of doubts, man. I find my working easier and faster in s1. And the speed at which Presonus is going. I am pretty sure that we will see more features we need pretty soon. And also, for someone like me budget tight. S1 turns better as I only pay for upgrade from a new version like 4 to 5 ...... Etc etc. But in Cubase? Cubase is a bit expensive road to take for me. Also, mostly I work multi instrument kontakt. And it's a bit confusing in Cubase. I make an instrument trcak and a midi track and the mixer looks messy with both, whereas studio one one. There just instrument track. Working in Mixer is so easier for me. I am sticking with my s1 artist and as soon as I have money. I am getting pro. I have made a decision.


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## ka00 (Jan 11, 2021)

Lukas said:


> No. It's the plug-in which crashes.
> 
> 
> No. If the plug-in crashes, this means there's a serious problem within the plug-in. If the plug-in does not confirm to the VST 2 / VST 3 protocol properly, it's up to the plug-in developer to fix these issues.
> ...



Oh for sure, I agree with you with regards to assigning blame in these cases. But what a plugin maker should do and what they do do, are not the same.

Yes, no need to call Studio One unstable if it’s someone else’s fault. I agree. But, if two cars crash with each other ahead of me on the road, I usually don’t care who caused it. I just do my best to avoid the situation until it’s cleared up. That’s sort of my thinking in this case.


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## PaulieDC (Jan 11, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> You cleared a lot of doubts, man. I find my working easier and faster in s1. And the speed at which Presonus is going. I am pretty sure that we will see more features we need pretty soon. And also, for someone like me budget tight. S1 turns better as I only pay for upgrade from a new version like 4 to 5 ...... Etc etc. But in Cubase? Cubase is a bit expensive road to take for me. Also, mostly I work multi instrument kontakt. And it's a bit confusing in Cubase. I make an instrument trcak and a midi track and the mixer looks messy with both, whereas studio one one. There just instrument track. Working in Mixer is so easier for me. I am sticking with my s1 artist and as soon as I have money. I am getting pro. I have made a decision.


In 2021 with v5.1, great choice! Did you know that you get 5 installs with your Pro license? Who does that? Wait until you see the bundled software with Pro... for instance, you get Lexicon MPX Reverb. No adjustments, only presets, but that classic Hall reverb for free!


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 11, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> In 2021 with v5.1, great choice! Did you know that you get 5 installs with your Pro license? Who does that? Wait until you see the bundled software with Pro... for instance, you get Lexicon MPX Reverb. No adjustments, only presets, but that classic Hall reverb for free!


Really? Quick! Send me 299 dollars and I will check them out right now.!!!!!!!!!!!


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## PaulieDC (Jan 11, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> Really? Quick! Send me 299 dollars and I will check them out right now.!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL! They should have a spring sale and drop that price IF you can hold off... BTW, one of our own, @jonathanwright, has a website showing how best to use https://www.jonathanwrightmusic.com/use-studio-one-and-instrument-presets-for-large-orchestral-projects/ (track presets for composing). Instead of the massive template, when you want a contrabassoon, just slap your contrabassoon track preset in the editor and you're good to go. In fact, now that Studio One is back on my laptop I need to revisit that article. I'm not a Kontakt expert so I'm not sure how multi-instruments work in that realm, but you would know once you muck around.


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 11, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> LOL! They should have a spring sale and drop that price IF you can hold off... BTW, one of our own, @jonathanwright, has a website showing how best to use https://www.jonathanwrightmusic.com/use-studio-one-and-instrument-presets-for-large-orchestral-projects/ (track presets for composing). Instead of the massive template, when you want a contrabassoon, just slap your contrabassoon track preset and you're good to go. In fact, now that Studio One is back on my laptop I need to revisit that article. I'm not a Kontakt expert so I'm not sure how multi-instruments work in that realm, but you would know once you muck around.


I will check them out. BTW spring sale isn't much help to me. I will wait till I get out of India for college next year. I can't earn money here. Then I will upgarde. That or either I get lucky in some giveaway, or some guy selling his license gifts me one or my dad gives me a gift. 😅


----------



## Lukas (Jan 11, 2021)

ka00 said:


> Yes, no need to call Studio One unstable if it’s someone else’s fault. I agree. But, if two cars crash with each other ahead of me on the road, I usually don’t care who caused it. I just do my best to avoid the situation until it’s cleared up. That’s sort of my thinking in this case.


Fair enough. For the user it's always bad when a software crashes. Of course. But it's the plug-in developers responsibility to provide a fix... and not the host's developer to invest time (which is then missing for adding scoring features or real bugs  ) into supporting bad programming.

But I haven't heard about problems with KONTAKT in Studio One 5.x recently. It seems to work flawlessly for everybody... so in the case above I suspect there's another problem on the particular system. Crashes when importing MIDI files, crashes with KONTAKT... there are no related known issues.


----------



## Tren (Jan 11, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> That's what I thought. I write orchestral arrangements and I think studio one has everything that cubase has. Could see what people were referring to. Everywhere I reas the comparison, people are saying that cubase has more midi stuff than s1. Even if it has, I don't think it is something that anyone uses, right?


It's everywhere because it's true, and Cubase is stronger for MIDI Editing than Studio One.

But I'm not sure why anyone should care. The only people who want to know what the list is are those who want to debate and ramble off their own list of rebuttals.

Waste of time.

If SO is good enough for you, the list is ignorable.


----------



## Tren (Jan 11, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> In 2021 with v5.1, great choice! Did you know that you get 5 installs with your Pro license? Who does that? Wait until you see the bundled software with Pro... for instance, you get Lexicon MPX Reverb. No adjustments, only presets, but that classic Hall reverb for free!


Umm... what?

There is no Lexicon MPX Reverb bundled with Studio One Pro. I think you are referring to the Studio Magic Suite that is bundled with their hardware products.


----------



## JashandeepReehal (Jan 11, 2021)

Tren said:


> It's everywhere because it's true, and Cubase is stronger for MIDI Editing than Studio One.
> 
> But I'm not sure why anyone should care. The only people who want to know what the list is are those who want to debate and ramble off their own list of rebuttals.
> 
> ...


It is good enough for me. I was thinking was selling the s1 artist license to buy Cubase elements but I am gonna stuck with s1. It just works for me the way I want it to. And I am pretty sure, if we want, presonus will add those features.


----------



## maestro2be (Jan 11, 2021)

Tren said:


> Umm... what?
> 
> There is no Lexicon MPX Reverb bundled with Studio One Pro. I think you are referring to the Studio Magic Suite that is bundled with their hardware products.


I wouldn't be so sure about that. I have SO and I got Lexicon MPX Reverb for free with it.


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## Tren (Jan 12, 2021)

maestro2be said:


> I wouldn't be so sure about that. I have SO and I got Lexicon MPX Reverb for free with it.


105% sure about it. I'm looking in my PreSonus Account as well as my email and there is no such thing.

Lexicon MPX Reverb comes with the Studio Magic Plug-in Bundle you get with PreSonus hardware.

Studio Magic | PreSonus



> Lexicon MPX-i Reverb​Lexicon’s MPX-i Reverb delivers seven classic Lexicon plate, hall, chamber, and room reverbs. A streamlined interface and 100 versatile, finely crafted presets enable you to quickly get the sound you want. Input and output metering let you monitor levels at a glance.


The only 3rd party items that are bundled with Studio One Professional are the Softube Saturation Knob (in the PreSonus Shop) and Celemony Melodyne Essential. Studio One Artist is also bundled with PreSonus hardware, so it's possible you upgraded to Pro off of that; and just think you got these things bundled with Studio One Pro. You are mistaken.

Have a nice day.


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## Tren (Jan 12, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> *It is good enough for me.* I was thinking was selling the s1 artist license to buy Cubase elements but I am gonna stuck with s1. *It just works for me the way I want it to.* And I am pretty sure, if we want, presonus will add those features.


Which is my point.

Not sure why anyone would sell S1 Artist for Cubase Elements, considering you'd be lucky to get more than $50 for it, given how many of those are on the open market


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## MCS (Jan 12, 2021)

Just my 2 cents: I switched from Cubase to S1 recently. I am doing orchestral music mainly and I don't miss anything regarding MIDI editing. What I especially like in S1 is the scratch pad and the features of the arranger track. Both are big winners for me. 
Both DAWs are great and every major DAW gets the job done in one way or the other. Like some people said before - try the demos, watch some youtube videos and choose what you like.
And...its not really an issue if you choose the "wrong" DAW, cause you can switch to another one. (I understand the budget issue though.)


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## Lukas (Jan 12, 2021)

MCS said:


> Both DAWs are great and every major DAW gets the job done in one way or the other. Like some people said before - try the demos, watch some youtube videos and choose what you like.
> And...its not really an issue if you choose the "wrong" DAW, cause you can switch to another one.


+1000

You don't need to stay with one program for your entire life. If you found one that you like, go with it.

Go with Studio One. 






MCS said:


> What I especially like in S1 is the scratch pad and the features of the arranger track. Both are big winners for me.


Yes...however, I have to say that the Arranger Track in Studio One has always been too limited for my kind of music (filmscore, jazz, unquantized music). It works great for loop-based and quantized music. But it becomes unflexible if you have pickups / notes that start before beat 1 (because you have strings or pads with some more attack) or if events overlap between sections (swells, transitions, sounds that need to ring). I miss a way to tie events to one arranger section... or to prevent events from being split when arranger sections are moved.

This would be a great way to make the Arranger Track even more useful for composers, arrangers and sound designers. At the moment I only use it for songs that are very strictly loop-based or have a very simple arrangement...


----------



## Ozinga (Jan 12, 2021)

Lukas said:


> Yes...however, I have to say that the Arranger Track in Studio One has always been too limited for my kind of music (filmscore, jazz, unquantized music). It works great for loop-based and quantized music. But it becomes unflexible if you have pickups / notes that start before beat 1 (because you have strings or pads with some more attack) or if events overlap between sections (swells, transitions, sounds that need to ring). I miss a way to tie events to one arranger section... or to prevent events from being split when arranger sections are moved.
> 
> This would be a great way to make the Arranger Track even more useful for composers, arrangers and sound designers. At the moment I only use it for songs that are very strictly loop-based or have a very simple arrangement...


It would be great if they could find a way to include pickups and tails to the arrangement parts. Like it does when you use ''select all events between locators'' command.


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## samphony (Jan 12, 2021)

Lukas said:


> This would be a great way to make the Arranger Track even more useful for composers, arrangers and sound designers. At the moment I only use it for songs that are very strictly loop-based or have a very simple arrangement...


I’m smelling a Feature Request. 
+10000


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 12, 2021)

Lukas said:


> It works great for loop-based and quantized music.


No, it doesn't. There is no implementation of an arranger track like feature in any DAW that's really useful. Of all I'd say Reason has the most interesting implementation of that kind of regions (they call it Blocks):


Clip players really are the most flexible solution, even for non-loop-based music.


----------



## Lukas (Jan 12, 2021)

samphony said:


> I’m smelling a Feature Request.
> +10000


Feature Request is there since November 2018


----------



## maestro2be (Jan 12, 2021)

Tren said:


> 105% sure about it. I'm looking in my PreSonus Account as well as my email and there is no such thing.
> 
> Lexicon MPX Reverb comes with the Studio Magic Plug-in Bundle you get with PreSonus hardware.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I don't own any hardware at all from Presonus and I have it. So 105% is pushing it perhaps. My comments weren't meant to be argumentative, just pointing out that this is one of those things that's not lining up with my results. So again, I wouldn't be so certain as I own it, got it for free from Presonus, and I own 0 hardware of theirs. Strange.

I am having a nice day by the way, thanks .


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 12, 2021)

maestro2be said:


> Interesting. I don't own any hardware at all from Presonus and I have it. So 105% is pushing it perhaps. My comments weren't meant to be argumentative, just pointing out that this is one of those things that's not lining up with my results. So again, I wouldn't be so certain as I own it, got it for free from Presonus, and I own 0 hardware of theirs. Strange.
> 
> I am having a nice day by the way, thanks .


Normally you don't get it. At least I didn't.


----------



## maestro2be (Jan 12, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Normally you don't get it. At least I didn't.


Yea it's interesting. I am trying to look in the past as it says I registered it in the year 2017 in my account. It sure sounds great. It had me considering purchasing the larger version.

Edit - **So I found an email from 2017 that says they registered a plugin suite called "Your Free StudioMagic Plug-in Suite is ready in your my.presonus.com account". It shows it came in that bundle.**

Interestingly, it says that it's now included in new mixers and interfaces but we didn't forget about you. I really have no idea why I got that email and never really second guessed it. I logged in and it was there waiting with serial numbers.

Sorry for the derail, I will get back on the subject now. Just not sure why they sent me this plugin suite.


----------



## Markrs (Jan 12, 2021)

If you plan on getting Studio 1 it is often sold 2nd hand for pretty low prices. I have seen S1 4 go for £60+ and S1 5 for about £100+ which could be cheaper than getting it direct. If you have any other DAW there is also the crossgrade option which last time was about £160 for S1 5 from plugin Boutique


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## PaulieDC (Jan 12, 2021)

Tren said:


> 105% sure about it. I'm looking in my PreSonus Account as well as my email and there is no such thing.
> 
> Lexicon MPX Reverb comes with the Studio Magic Plug-in Bundle you get with PreSonus hardware.
> 
> ...


Lighten up Tren. People make mistakes. It's been 5 years since that was announced and I was pretty sure it was bundled with Studio One, since I hadn't gotten an AI from them for quite a while. Turns out I may or may not have been wrong, it appears I got it because of the FaderPort 8 (and I may be wrong about THAT). By 2018 PreSonus made it clear that it will only be available with hardware, so it's not unreasonable to say it was available to all before that. If so, then you and I are both wrong. So I did give wrong advice, certainly apologize for that, but next time lose the chip on the shoulder bit. There are composers on this site that are VERY kind in their dialog, who have worked on major films right up to Star Wars, who don't come off like they arrived on an Oscar.


----------



## PaulieDC (Jan 13, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> In 2021 with v5.1, great choice! Did you know that you get 5 installs with your Pro license? Who does that? Wait until you see the bundled software with Pro... for instance, you get Lexicon MPX Reverb. No adjustments, only presets, but that classic Hall reverb for free!


Well, I should have checked out the reverb thing before posting it, it’s definitely not bundled with Studio One now and maybe wasn’t ever. My apologies, got a bit over-enthusiastic. If I come across some sort of nifty promotion I will shoot it your way.

I did look back in the thread and saw where you were talking about the people you are working with all using Cubase. I think there’s big advantages to learning both. Studio one will probably come of age but even so, knowing more than one DAW is never a disadvantage and they look a lot alike right down to the inspector. Studio one is definitely cheaper and easier to deal with plus you can use it as a cross grade for later, meanwhile taking advantage of the cheaper or free versions of Cubase to learn THAT. Another nice advantage to having studio one pro and a free version of Cubase (for right now given budget constraints) is you get a full mastering section in studio one pro. It works with any audio file.


----------



## PaulieDC (Jan 13, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> I am 17 right now and in last year of high school.


Good _night_ Jash, I’ve got *socks* older than you...🙃


----------



## Tren (Jan 14, 2021)

I like the Notion scoring engine in Studio One Pro. They're certainly doing that part right. However, the piano roll editor feels anemic.

Where is the list editor? Is there a way to set different notes to play through different MIDI channels in the piano roll, or do you need to create different tracks for that?

I can see why people may stick to Cubase. This still feels a bit... young. Either that, or I'm just clueless and don't know where to find these functions.

I think I may sale my copy of SO5.


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## Lukas (Jan 14, 2021)

Tren said:


> However, the piano roll editor feels anemic.


What do you mean?



Tren said:


> Where is the list editor?


There's no list editor in Studio One. I'm wondering what you need it for...?



Tren said:


> Is there a way to set different notes to play through different MIDI channels in the piano roll, or do you need to create different tracks for that?


You need to create different tracks.


----------



## JashandeepReehal (Jan 14, 2021)

Tren said:


> I like the Notion scoring engine in Studio One Pro. They're certainly doing that part right. However, the piano roll editor feels anemic.
> 
> Where is the list editor? Is there a way to set different notes to play through different MIDI channels in the piano roll, or do you need to create different tracks for that?
> 
> ...


Yeah. I realized I hadn't used the trial of 5. So currently doing that. And to be honest. Working with score in studio ome feels easier than in cubase. I am keeping the studio one. Piano roll, though really good, Will definitely get better in time. Really love working in there. It's easier. The thing is this. I was previously working in cubase trial and it took me almost twenty days to complete my cover of hans zimmers time. But now I am in studio one trial and working on man of steel remake. And it's been three days and I am almost 60% done with the track. I can't get around much in cubase easily. It is great but for me s1 helps me work faster than others.


----------



## Tren (Jan 14, 2021)

Lukas said:


> What do you mean?


It means it's missing a lot of functions that I'm used to seeing in the other DAWs that I use.


Lukas said:


> There's no list editor in Studio One. I'm wondering what you need it for...?


Because that is where I'd change the MIDI Channel of the notes when the PRV doesn't expose an option for this. Basically, a workaround. You can also play around with note lengths and start points on a very granular level, so that your MIDI doesn't sound so robotic.


Lukas said:


> You need to create different tracks.


Ugh...


----------



## Tren (Jan 14, 2021)

JashandeepReehal said:


> Yeah. I realized I hadn't used the trial of 5. So currently doing that. And to be honest. Working with score in studio ome feels easier than in cubase. I am keeping the studio one. Piano roll, though really good, Will definitely get better in time. Really love working in there. It's easier. The thing is this. I was previously working in cubase trial and it took me almost twenty days to complete my cover of hans zimmers time. But now I am in studio one trial and working on man of steel remake. And it's been three days and I am almost 60% done with the track. I can't get around much in cubase easily. It is great but for me s1 helps me work faster than others.



Yes, the score is nice. The engine will "emulate" common ornaments and such.

Cubase is a deeper DAW, so I expected a larger learning curve when I moved to it. You only learn things once, so I don't put too much weight on the learning curve - personally.

I can learn Cubase more and get faster with it. I cannot learn missing functions into Studio One. That is where I'm hitting my roadblocks.


----------



## Lukas (Jan 14, 2021)

Tren said:


> Because that is where I'd change the MIDI Channel of the notes when the PRV doesn't expose an option for this. Basically, a workaround. You can also play around with note lengths and start points on a very granular level, so that your MIDI doesn't sound so robotic.


Yes I see. We all are used to MIDI event editors from the beginning of MIDI sequencers... but actually, there wasn't one single case where I thought I would need an event list editor in Studio One (I could actually program one but it wouldn't give me more options than I already have).

I often hear people complain about this being missing in Studio One but to be honest, you can do almost all of it the same way with the inspector or note actions too. That's why I asked. You can select multiple notes and change the duration or set them to the same length or velocity, you can set them to the same end position just using mouse and keyboard. To be honest, I'm not sure why we would need an event list editor.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 14, 2021)

Lukas said:


> Yes I see. We all are used to MIDI event editors from the beginning of MIDI sequencers... but actually, there wasn't one single case where I thought I would need an event list editor in Studio One (I could actually program one but it wouldn't give me more options than I already have).
> 
> I often hear people complain about this being missing in Studio One but to be honest, you can do almost all of it the same way with the inspector or note actions too. That's why I asked. You can select multiple notes and change the duration or set them to the same length or velocity, you can set them to the same end position just using mouse and keyboard. To be honest, I'm not sure why we would need an event list editor.


Well, to change the MIDI channel, because that can't be done in the editor, obviously 

Actually one would have thought that you'd need to be able to send to all MIDI channels from a track because of MPE, but S1 and Live 11 have teached us that you can actually hack around that


----------



## ed buller (Jan 14, 2021)

Cubase

best

e


----------



## Tren (Jan 14, 2021)

Lukas said:


> Yes I see. We all are used to MIDI event editors from the beginning of MIDI sequencers... but actually, there wasn't one single case where I thought I would need an event list editor in Studio One (I could actually program one but it wouldn't give me more options than I already have).
> 
> I often hear people complain about this being missing in Studio One but to be honest, you can do almost all of it the same way with the inspector or note actions too. That's why I asked. You can select multiple notes and change the duration or set them to the same length or velocity, you can set them to the same end position just using mouse and keyboard. To be honest, I'm not sure why we would need an event list editor.


The reason I looked for a List Editor was because of the things the PRV cannot do - which typically is where these functions are found in other DAWs when things like the Note Channel cannot be changed in the MIDI Editor (PRV).

Stating what I can do in the inspector is missing the point. I've already looked there, and it is not the solution for me  The function does not exist, apparently.


----------



## Lukas (Jan 14, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Well, to change the MIDI channel, because that can't be done in the editor, obviously


That has nothing to do with the editor. You can't have notes with different MIDI channels on one track in Studio One currently. This wouldn't change simply by having an event list editor.



Tren said:


> Stating what I can do in the inspector is missing the point. I've already looked there, and it is not the solution for me  The function does not exist, apparently.


So you don't miss an event list editor, you miss the functionality of assigning MIDI channels to notes. That's a different feature request


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 14, 2021)

Lukas said:


> That has nothing to do with the editor. You can't have notes with different MIDI channels on one track. This wouldn't change simply by having a event list editor.


Studio one is supporting MPE, that means that it at least has a way to receive MIDI from different MIDI channels (that's actually not really different from an 'omni' receive) and save them to the track. the question is if S1 does save the channel information with the notes in the track and the problem is 'only' the display or if it does convert everything to one MIDI channel when receiving.
So, yes, an MIDI event list could be a way to get to the channels, but ...


----------



## Lukas (Jan 14, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Studio one is supporting MPE, that means that it at least has a way to receive MIDI from different MIDI channels (that's actually not really different from an 'omni' receive) and save them to the track.


Sorry, no. The MPE specification states that every note gets its own MIDI channel, until there are no unoccupied channels available. These channel assignments change dynamically and don't need to be stored with the note data.


----------



## JashandeepReehal (Jan 14, 2021)

Keep them coming guys. Although I am sticking with s1, I am loving this discussion. I honestly didn't know ow half these things. I am learning alot of new things. Keep them coming


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 14, 2021)

Lukas said:


> Sorry, no. The MPE specification states that every note gets its own MIDI channel, until there are no unoccupied channels available.


Yes, I know. 



Lukas said:


> These channel assignments change dynamically and don't need to be stored with the note data.


But we don't know if that's the case or not, and if not, when the MIDI channels are discarded in S1. The possibility that that dáta would bé accessible using the MIDI event list exists as long as there is a MIDI event list implemented in S1 that does otherwise (which won't happen in reality).


----------



## Lukas (Jan 14, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> But we don't know if that's the case or not


I do know at least.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 14, 2021)

Lukas said:


> I do know.


I only believe you if you change that with the next update and post a link to your post in the changelog


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## Lukas (Jan 14, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> I only believe you if you change that with the next update and post a link to your post in the changelog


I'm totally fine with you not believing me.

But if you want, you can take a look into one of the .musicx files in your song file ... that's where note and part automation data is stored. You will see that there's no MIDI channel data for single notes.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 14, 2021)

Lukas said:


> I'm totally fine with you not believing me.


I actually thought that my smilie would be an insult to the intelligence of the reader, but well ... 

But you still didn't get my point that a hypothetical MIDI event list could still have all the MIDI channel information (because that information exists when the note is received) and you could use this information later when sending out the MIDI instead of using the channels more or less sequential. MIDI lists for a long time had information (like the MIDI channels, also if you couldn't change them) that the editor hadn't - that was the whole point of the event lists (and that's why programs like Live never had one).


----------



## Lukas (Jan 14, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> But you still didn't get my point that a hypothetical MIDI event list could still have all the MIDI channel information (because that information exists when the note is received) and you could use this information later when sending out the MIDI instead of using the channels more or less sequential. MIDI lists for a long time had information (like the MIDI channels, also if you couldn't change them) that the editor hadn't - that was the whole point of the event lists (and that's why programs like Live never had one).


It doesn't make a difference, technically, if you edit the MIDI channel as a note attribute in the Editor (Piano View) or if you do that in an event list editor. And if PreSonus decides to allow multiple MIDI CHs, you don't need an event list editor for that. The two things have nothing to do with each other.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 14, 2021)

Lukas said:


> It doesn't make a difference, technically, if you edit the MIDI channel as a note attribute in the Editor (Piano View) or if you do that in an event list editor.


You still didn't get _the_ point from the start of the whole MIDI list thing. 
The only reason a MIDI lists existed (nowadays almost any editor gained all missing features) has been that you can do things with it THAT ARE NOT POSSIBLE IN THE PIANO ROLL. 
So instead of, e.g. adding the whole stuff needed to view and edit MIDI channels in the piano roll (a feature that needs maybe 60 man-days) you added that to the existing event list (a feature that needed maybe 4 man-days).


----------



## Lukas (Jan 14, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> So instead of, e.g. adding the whole stuff needed to view and edit MIDI channels in the piano roll (a feature that needs maybe 60 man-days) you added that to the existing event list (a feature that needed maybe 4 man-days).


What's the difference between adding a column to an event list table and adding a row to a note attributes panel (called "inspector" in Studio One)? Your example (although it's just an example) doesn't make sense to me. An input field is an input field.



ReleaseCandidate said:


> You still didn't get _the_ point from the start of the whole MIDI list thing.


I'm not sure why it's important that or if MIDI list editors in the 90s would be necessary to edit MIDI channel data. My question was if a MIDI list editor is necessary nowadays. And editing MIDI channel data is certainly not an answer to this as this could be done in ANY view.



ReleaseCandidate said:


> The only reason a MIDI lists existed (nowadays almost any editor gained all missing features) has been that you can do things with it THAT ARE NOT POSSIBLE IN THE PIANO ROLL.


No I don't think that's the reason.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 14, 2021)

Lukas said:


> What's the difference between adding a column to an event list table and adding a row to a note attributes panel (called "inspector" in Studio One)? Your example (although it's just an example) doesn't make sense to me. An input field is an input field.


The attributes panel isn't the piano roll and isn't the editor, that actually is more or less a row of a MIDI event list. I was thinking about real integration in the editor and piano roll, like in Bitwig:














Bitwig Studio 2.4: What's New
 

From a brand new sampler to ParSeq-8, a unique modulation sequencer, MIDI channel support to a new way of working with samples, there's something for everyone i



ask.audio






Lukas said:


> I'm not sure why it's important that or if MIDI list editors in the 90s would be necessary to edit MIDI channel data. My question was if a MIDI list editor is necessary nowadays. And editing MIDI channel data is certainly not an answer to this as this could be done in ANY view.


Nobody said that it's necessary. But I was saying that you don't need to have the MIDI channel added to the editor if you'd have a MIDI event list and that that would be less work and that's why many DAWs had it there first (but we're talking about _quite_ some time ago). But yes, talking about the attributes to the left, that would almost be the same, just a bit more clumsy.


Lukas said:


> No I don't think that's the reason.


You're free to have a wrong opinion .


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## Lukas (Jan 14, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> But I was saying that you don't need to have the MIDI channel added to the editor if you'd have a MIDI event list and that that would be less work and that's why many DAWs had it there first


I'm impressed by your insider knowledge of what is how much work for all the DAW developers. Nothing to add here.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 14, 2021)

Lukas said:


> I'm impressed by your insider knowledge of what is how much work for all the DAW developers.


Well, I of course don't háve your insider knowledge of S1 . 
But seriously, if you doubt _that_, we can't get on a common ground to talk about software development at all.


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## Lukas (Jan 14, 2021)

Seems we can't. But the good thing is that we don't need to.

I'm more interested in Studio One becoming a great DAW for composers.


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## Crossroads (Jan 15, 2021)

One very important thing with really large projects is that Cubase still wins this hands down because Presonus kinda botched their implementation of their dual buffer engine, making it useless with VI's, whereas Cubase's ASIO Guard is a beast. I really like Studio One but this implementation is useless, it's better to leave it off and handle it the old way of increasing the buffer when you start mixing. I can get much larger projects inside Cubase than Studio One. In Cubase, I've never had to freeze a single track, even in my largest projects. In the long run, Cubase is much more stable in that regard. But it depends on how big your projects are.

I don't know how important that is, that is up to the person.


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## flamestalker (Jan 17, 2021)

Catching up with the thread, but has anyone tried to run large templates (300+tracks) on Studio One? Each with their own instrument output? I've been an S1 user since 2015 and have been building my template as a 'one articulation patch per instrument' type of way, but ended up running into CPU performance issues (VEP PC slave, MacBook 16' Main) on the DAW. It took really long to open up folders, save, add a channel, etc. SO as a result I've had to dial back the number of total tracks and move to a hybrid 'long/short key switch articulation' setup... 

I have about 8 total instances (WW, Brass, String, etc) in VEP and each with about 30-50 instances of Kontakt.


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## Tren (Jan 19, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Nobody said that it's necessary. But I was saying that you don't need to have the MIDI channel added to the editor if you'd have a MIDI event list and that that would be less work and that's why many DAWs had it there first (but we're talking about _quite_ some time ago). But yes, talking about the attributes to the left, that would almost be the same, just a bit more clumsy.
> 
> You're free to have a wrong opinion .


+1

That's ignoring the fact that some DAWs already allow you to do this in the PRV via an integrated event editor. Samplitude Pro 9 had this feature, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were there even before that version. When was that released... 2006?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 9, 2021)

So, how have things changed with S1's 5.2 release? To me, it's still more of a catching up to the big boys - not sure they've truly eclipsed them in any particular regard (especially Cubase which is very feature rich). I do prefer S1's score editor, but Cubase's UI is nicer to me (with more customization). Need to run some CPU usage comparisons.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 9, 2021)

With my Omnisphere performance test, S1 5.2 held up very well. Beat out Cubase slightly, closer to Logic. Overall, no issues (this was at 128 buffer with maximum dropout protection selected).

But I do certainly prefer Cubase's UI...


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## easyrider (Mar 14, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> But I do certainly prefer Cubase's UI...


That’s the thing about DAWs....I hate the Cubase interface....it looks like a child designed it in 1980....

Each to their own...


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 14, 2021)

easyrider said:


> That’s the thing about DAWs....I hate the Cubase interface....it looks like a child designed it in 1980....
> 
> Each to their own...


Indeed, to each their own, but the most voted outstanding request on Presonus Answers is for improved UI / color options. Cubase is certainly not a pinnacle of UI design - but at least it provides some more customizability.


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## stigc56 (Apr 13, 2021)

Inspired by some of you guys I have tested S1 the past few days. Can't find a way to convert CC2 to CC1 in S1. I recorded a string arrangement with a CC2 controlling the XFade and now I want to try it with the new VSL Synchron Elite Strings, which uses CC1.
Can it be done in Studio One? 
(Hey man thats a good chorus line!)


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## EgM (Apr 13, 2021)

stigc56 said:


> Inspired by some of you guys I have tested S1 the past few days. Can't find a way to convert CC2 to CC1 in S1. I recorded a string arrangement with a CC2 controlling the XFade and now I want to try it with the new VSL Synchron Elite Strings, which uses CC1.
> Can it be done in Studio One?
> (Hey man thats a good chorus line!)



Just select your cc2 automation lines and paste it to the cc1 section


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## Lukas (Apr 13, 2021)

Hi Stig. You can't convert the automation but you can copy it and paste it in the target automation lane (Paste at Original Position / Ctrl+Shift+V / Cmd+Shift+V).

Does that help?


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## stigc56 (Apr 13, 2021)

Well it's a bit confusing that S1 calls my CC2 data for Ctrl 5-1-3! I know it's connected by port 5 channel 1 to my string server instance, but why *3*? Also the sustain pedal which is CC 64 is numbered 65, how come?
Well so I need to create a lane for CC1 and the copy/paste the CC2 to that. okay!
Thanks!


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## Lukas (Apr 13, 2021)

That's how the instrument itself names its parameters. Studio One displays what is exposed by the instrument.

Is this a VST 3 instrument?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 13, 2021)

I think Presonus could simplify the naming of those CC lanes - but also improve the CC lanes in general (ability to change the defaults, controller lane sets, key commands to bring up specific sets, etc).

Anyway, glad you're trying S1! I think it will continue to improve! (I've gone back to Cubase for now because some of the smaller issues really added up and hindered my workflow, but hoping they get them fixed soon. I reported probably like 10 bugs since 5.2 released).


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## stigc56 (Apr 13, 2021)

Lukas said:


> That's how the instrument itself names its parameters. Studio One displays what is exposed by the instrument.
> 
> Is this a VST 3 instrument?


Yes its Vienna Ensemble Pro, running on a PC Server.


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## stigc56 (Apr 13, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I think Presonus could simplify the naming of those CC lanes - but also improve the CC lanes in general (ability to change the defaults, controller lane sets, key commands to bring up specific sets, etc).
> 
> Anyway, glad you're trying S1! I think it will continue to improve! (I've gone back to Cubase for now because some of the smaller issues really added up and hindered my workflow, but hoping they get them fixed soon. I reported probably like 10 bugs since 5.2 released).


Well I also returned to Cubase today. Metagrid doesn`t work at the momemt with S1, and I don`t think the editor handles CC in a way, that I can live with. Some of the VSL instruments has 10 CC, just to hard in S1. But the Sound Variations rocks!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 13, 2021)

stigc56 said:


> Well I also returned to Cubase today. Metagrid doesn`t work at the momemt with S1, and I don`t think the editor handles CC in a way, that I can live with. Some of the VSL instruments has 10 CC, just to hard in S1. But the Sound Variations rocks!


Yeah I understand the pain. It is almost there - and getting better as Sound Variations demonstrates. I'm hoping by 5.3 / 5.4, it'll really have resolved some of the workflow issues. Cubase is no slouch in the end - there's a reason why so many professionals and hobbyists use it!


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## AEF (Apr 16, 2021)

stigc56 said:


> Well I also returned to Cubase today. Metagrid doesn`t work at the momemt with S1, and I don`t think the editor handles CC in a way, that I can live with. Some of the VSL instruments has 10 CC, just to hard in S1. But the Sound Variations rocks!


Why not use Studio One remote? You can literally fill it with every macro, including for Sound Variations, you want.

This workflow is actually one of the drivers for me using it over the metagrid/logic workflow.


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