# The Ultimate Headphone Thread (Headphoneamps added)



## ghostnote (Dec 12, 2013)

I've noticed that headphone threads keep poping up periodically and thought it would be nice to have one thread with lots of infos about headphones and links to those older threads. I hope this is useful.

*Headphone Comparisons, Reviews and other useful Articles:*
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan10/a ... phones.htm
http://headphonescout.com/best-for-stud ... ng-mixing/
http://productionadvice.co.uk/headphones-mixing/
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle- ... n-2-6-4-13
http://www.sonicsense.com/blog/category ... eadphones/
http://www.sonicsense.com/blog/category ... eadphones/
http://www.homestudiocorner.com/sennhei ... es-review/
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug07/a ... 0807_3.htm
http://recording.de/Magazin/Testbericht ... ml#article (German)
http://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansi ... tudio.html (German)
http://www.delamar.de/video-workshops/k ... ffen-8677/ (German)
_________________________________________________________________

*Recommended Studio Headphones:*

*Open-Back:*
* -Sennheiser HD 600/650:*
http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Dynamic-Professional-Stereo-Headphones/dp/B00004SY4H (http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Dynami ... B00004SY4H)
http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-9969-HD-650-Headphones/dp/B00018MSNI (http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-9969-H ... B00018MSNI)
_Frequency response:_ http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID (http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompar ... =0&amp;graphID)[]=853&graphID[]=573&scale=30
How the HD650 sound: https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro- ... hones-test

Tip: If you go with the HD600, be sure to get the (better) 650 cables: http://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Cable-SENNHEISER-Headphones-HD650/dp/B0028PGXRE (http://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Cable ... B0028PGXRE)

* -AKG K702/K712:*
http://www.amazon.com/AKG-K702-Headphones/dp/B001RCD2DW
http://www.amazon.com/AKG-K712-Pro-Mastering-Reference/dp/B00E4WXWBE (http://www.amazon.com/AKG-K712-Pro-Mast ... B00E4WXWBE)
_Frequency response:_ http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID (http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompar ... =0&amp;graphID)[]=2621&graphID[]=4163&scale=30
How the K 702 sound: https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro- ... hones-test
How the K 712 sound: https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro- ... hones-test

* -AKG K612:*
http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Pro-Audio-K612PRO-Reference/dp/B00DCXZY1W/ (http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Pro-Audio-K61 ... 00DCXZY1W/)
_Frequency response:_ http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID (http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompar ... =0&amp;graphID)[]=3591&scale=30

Tip: The K601 and K612 share the same sound signature.

* -Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro:*
http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-DT-880-Pro-Headphones-250/dp/B001B1QENY (http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-DT-8 ... B001B1QENY)
_Frequency response:_ http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID (http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompar ... =0&amp;graphID)[]=963&scale=30
How the DT 880 Pro sound: https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro- ... hones-test
How the DT 880 Premuim 250 Ohm sound: https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro- ... hones-test

Tip: The main differences between the Pros and the Premiums are the cables (premium = straight, pro = coiled) and the clamping force (pro is tighter).

*Closed-Back:*
* -Focal Spirit Professional:*
http://www.amazon.com/Focal-Spirit-Professional-Studio-Headphones/dp/B00EXO8Y3Y (http://www.amazon.com/Focal-Spirit-Prof ... B00EXO8Y3Y)

* -Audio Technica ATH M-50 and M-50x:*
http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50x-Professional-Headphones/dp/B00HVLUR86 (http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT ... B00HVLUR86)
http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT ... B000ULAP4U
_Frequency response:_ http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID (http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompar ... =0&amp;graphID)[]=4313&graphID[]=2941&scale=30
How the ATH-M50x sound: https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro- ... hnica-m50x

* -Shure SRH-840:*
http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SRH840-Professional-Monitoring-Headphones/dp/B002DP8IEK (http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SRH840-Prof ... B002DP8IEK)
_Frequency response:_ http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID (http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompar ... =0&amp;graphID)[]=913&scale=30

Audio Examples by www.sonicsense.com. Here's the source track:
https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro- ... urce-track
_________________________________________________________________

*Recommended Headphone Amps:*

* -O2(+ODAC):*
http://www.jdslabs.com/products/35/obje ... amplifier/
http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/

* -Lake People G103(mid-fi) and G109(hi-fi):*
http://www.thomann.de/gb/lake_people_g103s_phoneamp.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/lake_people_g103p_phoneamp.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/lake_people_g109s_highend_phoneamp.htm (http://www.thomann.de/gb/lake_people_g1 ... oneamp.htm)
http://www.thomann.de/gb/lake_people_g109_p_highend_phoneamp.htm (http://www.thomann.de/gb/lake_people_g1 ... oneamp.htm)

http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers

* -Violectric HPA V200:*
http://www.thomann.de/gb/violectric_hpa_200_kopfhoererverstaerker.htm (http://www.thomann.de/gb/violectric_hpa ... aerker.htm)
_________________________________________________________________

*Headphone Websites and measurements:*
http://www.head-fi.org/
http://www.headphone.com/
http://www.headfonia.com/
http://www.innerfidelity.com/
http://en.goldenears.net/
http://www.changstar.com/

*Mixing on Headphones:*
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan07/a ... phones.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec03/a ... phones.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr08/a ... 0408_4.htm
http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mix ... udio-16563
http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/mon ... ing-574584
http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/tech/ ... nes-574265
http://www.audio-issues.com/music-mixin ... anslation/
http://thestereobus.com/2012/03/26/mixing-with-headphones-avoiding-disaster/ (http://thestereobus.com/2012/03/26/mixi ... -disaster/)
http://www.homestudiocorner.com/headpho ... ot-to-mix/
http://www.rhythmic.ca/music-tutorials/mixing/articles/how-to-mix-with-headphones.html (http://www.rhythmic.ca/music-tutorials/ ... hones.html)
http://www.emusician.com/mics/0821/roun ... nes/133927

*Software for mixing on Headphones:*
http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/ (~25$)
http://www.fluxhome.com/products/plug_ins/ircam_hear-v3 (~69$)
http://www.112db.com/redline/monitor/ (69$)
http://www.supremepiano.com/product/head.htm (49$)

*Do I need a Headphoneamp?:*
You probably won't need an Headphoneamplifier, if your Headphones have an Ohm value of 30-40. If your Headphones have a higher value, then they will definetely benefit from good amplification.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug07/a ... 0807_3.htm
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ul ... i-need-one
http://www.headphone.com/pages/do-my-he ... dphone-amp
http://www.goodcans.com/HeadphoneReviews/Reviewss/HeadphoneAmp101.html (http://www.goodcans.com/HeadphoneReview ... mp101.html)
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/hea ... ained.html

*V.I. Control Headphone Threads:*
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35032
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21202&
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22968&
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26190&
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25932&
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27242&
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27294&
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28826&
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33234&

Note: Keep in mind that everyone has his own listening preferences. A headphone that is known to be harsch or sibilant can be pleasant to other listeners. Same goes for comfort. Compare the Headphones in a Shop.

happy listening!


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## Leo Badinella (Dec 12, 2013)

Great idea this thread Michael. Thanks.

I hadn't thought about creating a virtual space tailored-made for headphones that recreated the perfect studio. It makes absolute sense.

Still, I doubt it is a perfect solution but, it definitely beats having to mentally compensate for the shortcomings of mixing on headphones.

o-[][]-o


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## PMortise (Dec 12, 2013)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

I love it when someone generously makes a comprehensive post like this. Sometimes you can spend litterally an hour searching threads. You save me time - then you saved me something priceless.

Thanks! =o


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## ghostnote (Dec 12, 2013)

You're welcome Guys!


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## synapse21 (Dec 12, 2013)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Don't leave out the new Focal Spirit Professional headphones! They are getting rave reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Focal-310217-Spirit-Professional/dp/B00EXO8Y3Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386873148&sr=8-1&keywords=focal+spirit+headphones (http://www.amazon.com/Focal-310217-Spir ... headphones)

http://tapeop.com/reviews/gear/98/spiri ... eadphones/


- Rodney


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Dec 12, 2013)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Thanks for putting together the list Michael, I'm sure quite a few people will find this useful.



synapse21 @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> Don't leave out the new Focal Spirit Professional headphones!



Yes, I too have heard great things about the new Focal Spirit Pro - in fact I just put in an order for a pair and will receive them tomorrow. In case anyone's interested I'll post my findings (and a comparison to DT770 and K701 amongst others) after I've had a chance to use them for a while.


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## ghostnote (Dec 12, 2013)

Thanks Guys. I've to admit I had an eye on the HD800, but now I think my next headphones will be those Focals. I mean they are closed, they cost much less than the Senns and seem to sound very good. Would be really nice if you could post a comparison Mihkel, especially against the K-701.


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## mark812 (Dec 12, 2013)

Great thread, Michael, it should be pinned on top.



Michael Chrostek @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> Thanks Guys. I've to admit I had an eye on the HD800, but now I think my next headphones will be those Focals. I mean they are closed, they cost much less than the Senns and seem to sound very good. Would be really nice if you could post a comparison Mihkel, especially against the K-701.



Focals are closed, while HD800/K701 are open-back (more suitable for mixing by default), so I'm not sure if they're comparable.

*Here*'s a thread with a lot of info on Focals, pretty much hi-fi oriented though. Some thoughts from a Focal representative:



> SRH940 : it seems like the 940 has a big peak somewhere in the high-end and over-pronounced the 'S' on a lot of vocals that I know don't need de-essing (using tracks I know and was there during the recording and mixing process) also - to me, seems the 940 missed some sub-frequencies (below 80 or so)
> 
> HD650 (I didn't get to hear the 600 recently) : the Spirit Pro has definitively better bass definition and punch than the 650
> 
> Beyer DT880 : very good headphones and overall response is the closest to the Spirit Pro that I heard amongst a lot of headphones. However, Spirit Pro is sealed and a lot easier to drive, is a tad more dynamic and detailed in the high-end, and has detachable cables, and is more compact (if that matters)


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## ghostnote (Dec 12, 2013)

mark812 @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> Great thread, Michael, it should be pinned on top.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks mark. 

You're right, it's hard to compare them, but I really like what I hear about the Focals. An allrounder for both, mixing and personal listening would be very cool. I was also considering the SRH1540, but they cost twice as much as the Focals and seem to be incompatible with my head.


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## Arbee (Dec 13, 2013)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Very generous post, many thanks (happy Beyer 770 user here) o-[][]-o 

.


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## wlotz (Dec 13, 2013)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Great thread Michael, thanks! I'm definitely going to give Spirit Pro a try.

W


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 13, 2013)

I called a great engineer friend. He said that in terms of comfort and that when he listens through them , he says, "That's my mix!" for him it i s the ATH M-50.


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Dec 16, 2013)

Michael Chrostek @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> Thanks Guys. I've to admit I had an eye on the HD800, but now I think my next headphones will be those Focals. I mean they are closed, they cost much less than the Senns and seem to sound very good. Would be really nice if you could post a comparison Mihkel, especially against the K-701.



I just did a short session comparing the Focal SP to DT770 and K701. Focal recommends a healthy burn-in time so I won't go into too much
detail at this time and will just offer a quick first impression:

- These headphones haven't quite figured out whether they want to be circumaural or supra-aural. The cups are a bit smaller than those
of a true circumaural headphone and they will sit on your ears to some degree, unless you have really small ears. I usually find supra-aural
headphones a bit uncomfortable due to the pressure they place on the ear, and Focal have recognised this problem - the cups are made 
from Memory Foam. It works well to reduce pressure on the ears, but still I wouldn't call them the most comfortable headphones in the world.

- The first thing I noticed about the overall sound was how astonishingly close they sound to my Focal Solo 6 speakers. 
After having listened to a couple of reference mixes, I think I could mix on these headphones with minimal difficulty, due to the familiar sound.

- Compared to the DT770:
Focals have a more refined, tighter low end, while still having quite a bit of punch. The overall sound has more presence and feels a lot more
in-your-face on the Focals. The phantom center feels especially close. I can hear more detail in the background elements on the Focals. 

- Comparing them to K701 is indeed a bit difficult, as the designs are radically different, but there are also some similarities. The Focals 
feel a bit more low & mid-heavy , whereas K701 have a lot more high end. A string orchestra recording through the K701 has noticable air 
around the instruments, which almost disappears when switching to the Focals. The K701 sound more crisp, almost harsh. The Focal SP sound 
smoother. They both share a present and close sound, though.

Overall, I'm happy with the Focal Spirit Pro's and will keep them as a secondary mix tool. The lows are very well defined and tight, not 
overpowering at any point. The mids are a little forward. The highs are smooth. The soundstage and instrument separation is excellent. 
It's really easy to spot any problematic muddiness in the mix. I do think that perhaps if used as the only mix tool one could potentially 
mix things a bit too harsh and hi-end heavy to compensate for the especially smooth high end. Aside from that I think they can be a very
valuable mix evaluation tool, very detailed and balanced. 


I'll check back in a couple of weeks and let you know how breaking the headphones in has affected the sound.

Cheers


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## shapeshifter00 (Dec 16, 2013)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Thanks for the review. I'm actually looking for a pair of good headphones I can use for mixing until I can get a decent room and studio setup, my AKG K240 is okey, but I would like something that is better. The Focal will probably be my best bet for that price.


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## Andrew Aversa (Dec 16, 2013)

To throw my 2 cents in the ring... I literally ONLY use headphones for production, mixing, and mastering. Occasionally I reference stuff on a pair of crummy $99 speakers with a subwoofer (to get an idea of a very 'average' and flawed system) but otherwise, it's all headphones for me. The DT-880s are just incredible for that. Superb detail, balance, and comfort. I have been using them since 2007.


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 17, 2013)

Ath m-50 is great until you buy a more expensive pair...


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## muk (Dec 17, 2013)

For mixing I'd say the AKG K701/702 is one of the best in it's pricerange. The Sennheiser HD 600/650 and Beyer Dt 880 are on par, but out of the three the AKG is the most revealing. So I'd say it's best for mixing. I haven't heard the Ath M-50, so I can't comment on it.


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## ghostnote (Dec 17, 2013)

many thanks for the comparison Mihkel! Sounds good, the only downside would be the small cups, but I have to try it myself. How about dynamics? Looking forward to further impressions.



EastWest Lurker @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> I called a great engineer friend. He said that in terms of comfort and that when he listens through them , he says, "That's my mix!" for him it i s the ATH M-50.



Used them for a while, great phones, punchy and dynamic bass, but not really linear.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 17, 2013)

Michael Chrostek @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> many thanks for the comparison Mihkel! Sounds good, the only downside would be the small cups, but I have to try it myself. How about dynamics? Looking forward to further impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What does "not really linear." mean Michael?


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## mark812 (Dec 17, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> Michael Chrostek @ Tue Dec 17 said:
> 
> 
> > many thanks for the comparison Mihkel! Sounds good, the only downside would be the small cups, but I have to try it myself. How about dynamics? Looking forward to further impressions.
> ...



"Flat"?


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## ghostnote (Dec 17, 2013)

> What does "not really linear." mean Michael?


The bass and the highs are a bit too prominent:
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2941&graphID[]=703&scale=30

on the other side, it doesn't make a big difference if you know your phones.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 17, 2013)

Michael Chrostek @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> > What does "not really linear." mean Michael?
> 
> 
> The bass and the highs are a bit too prominent:
> ...



I see. Thanks.


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## eric aron (Dec 19, 2013)

Michael Chrostek @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> Thanks Guys. I've to admit I had an eye on the HD800, but now I think my next headphones will be those Focals. I mean they are closed, they cost much less than the Senns and seem to sound very good. Would be really nice if you could post a comparison Mihkel, especially against the K-701.




you can't compare the focal with the hd 800. as for me the hd 800 is the best ever made headphone, i am using it 10 hours a day without any problem.. the accuracy, transparency, spatial field are exceptional. i was using before a beyer dt 990 pro, but day and night with the hd800


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## muk (Dec 19, 2013)

Without a doubt the HD 800 are incredible headphones. But whether one can say they are the best... Let's not forget about the Stax SR-009 (over 5000$) and say the HD 800 ranks among the best


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## eric aron (Dec 19, 2013)

yes, my bad, i should have added best ever "dynamic" headphone. electrostatic are in another level, and the price also..


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## muk (Dec 19, 2013)

I wholeheartedly agree with that.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 29, 2013)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

I have an engineer friend who mixes my stuff (he won a Grammy as an engineer for a big album a couple years back - sorry, not tying to throw that word around, just making a point), and he only mixes with headphones. He just checks with monitors and car speakers on occasion.

Not sure what pair he uses but I went with some DT 880s and have gotten used to them now.

Good thread, btw..


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## freddiehangoler (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Working with Grado GSi1000. Really outstanding piece of work


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## Sebastian (Dec 30, 2013)

For two years i'm using the Beyerdynamix T1 and they sounds great on Orchestral-Score music. 
It's all about the details which you can hear. IMO one of the top headphones.

I also have the AKG701. Amazing for the listening experience but not for the mix. Too much beautification ( fantastic for the music listening or mixing electronic music ).You can have them on the ears for hours. Very comfortable

Beyerdynamic dt880 PRO are natural...I would even say that boring . No beautification. Great for making the mix. Try to mix with DT880 and you will enjoy your music on every audio system. 
Unfortunately PRO are uncomfortable :( 

On the other hand i would say , no matter what kind of headphones, you just learn them.


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## chimuelo (Jan 2, 2014)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Imagine no wires, matched audio graph for your ears as we all have different 4k notches.
Instead of 4 sets of handcuffing headphones designed back in WW2, think of wireless, and multitasking.
Take a dump while mastering with an iPad, get your mail or even excercise using IEMs.

Just a thought for the guys who still believe in the one size fits all solutions.

Headphones made for "everyone" reminds of a Government social program where everyone is equal, even though we know that is a contradiction in terms.
But spend about 2 grand for 5 pair, each pair with a different purpose.

For 1200 USD you can get 6 way drivers designed around your ears, with no wires, and even a great application for surround.

But giving away old coiled wired last century designs to freinds is always fun too.


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## jleckie (Jan 2, 2014)

I would be happy to just have my cell phone transplanted into my hand. might not lose it then.


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## ghostnote (Jan 6, 2014)

Update: Added a couple of links and frequency charts

Thanks for your input guys! Let me know if you've found a useful website, I'll add it to the list.


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## muk (Jan 6, 2014)

You might add changstar.com to the list. It has measurements of many models (waterfall diagrams) and a lot of discussion going on.


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## SyMTiK (Jan 6, 2014)

I own the beyerdynamic dt880 pro's, and they are a great reference set. Checking between them and my Yamaha monitors, and I have been able to get mixes to sound good on just about everything.

They are a bit boring for regular listening though. However, I can just change the eq setting on my fiio amp to get a more colored sound for listening.


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## ghostnote (Feb 24, 2014)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Updated the reviews and added sound examples. Here's an interesting comparison between the HD650 and the K 702:


and in case you've missed it, here're the new Audio Technica ATH-M50x, now with replacable cables:


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## pangolin (Feb 24, 2014)

love my beyerdynamic DT-880 pros. Once you go open-backed, it's hard to go...back. I recommend at least the 250 ohm resistance pair though. Any lower and it's crap. Any higher and you need a good headphone amp - which opens up a whole new can of worms regarding sonic coloration that I just don't want to get into.



Wouldn't mind a nice pair of Audeze LCD3's or whatever they're hocking these days - but i'm not willing to drop over a grand for a pair of cans (yet).


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## Giant_Shadow (Feb 24, 2014)

My g/f works for a audiologist and recommends we never use headphones if we still want our hearing when were old. Over 35% of there appointments are related to hearing damage from using headphones , and especially from using ear buds. Saying that, I had to have a pair for certain times of the day and choose the AT M-50's as the best value out there for the money, not being too bright, and use them ONLY at lower volumes.


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## MichaelL (Feb 25, 2014)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Thanks for this thread Michael. We just moved into a new place, and the studio sound is completely different. It's making me crazy. 
I need a good set of headphones to check mixes.


Thanks.

_Michael


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## paulmatthew (Feb 25, 2014)

Giant_Shadow @ Mon Feb 24 said:


> My g/f works for a audiologist and recommends we never use headphones if we still want our hearing when were old. Over 35% of there appointments are related to hearing damage from using headphones , and especially from using ear buds. Saying that, I had to have a pair for certain times of the day and choose the AT M-50's as the best value out there for the money, not being too bright, and use them ONLY at lower volumes.



I agree . I use the ATH M-50's as well for both djing and music production . Very sturdy and excellent value . I think I picked mine up for about $120 about 5-6 years ago and they're still holding up well. Hands down one of the best pairs of headphones I've ever owned. Great all around sound and it doesn't lean towards the highs or low ends like other headphones will. Even smooth sound with solid bass response.


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## ghostnote (Feb 26, 2014)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*



MichaelL @ Tue Feb 25 said:


> Thanks for this thread Michael.


you're welcome michael



Giant_Shadow @ Mon Feb 24 said:


> My g/f works for a audiologist and recommends we never use headphones if we still want our hearing when were old. Over 35% of there appointments are related to hearing damage from using headphones , and especially from using ear buds. Saying that, I had to have a pair for certain times of the day and choose the AT M-50's as the best value out there for the money, not being too bright, and use them ONLY at lower volumes.


Agree, the M50s are very nice for its price. 

I'm listening at moderate levels and always try to make breaks in between. But you're right, listening at louder lvls (or at moderate lvls over longer periods of time) can cause hearing damage.


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 2, 2014)

Just bought Audiotechnica ATH M50x. Very impressed so far.


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## dgburns (Mar 2, 2014)

pangolin @ Mon Feb 24 said:


> love my beyerdynamic DT-880 pros. Once you go open-backed, it's hard to go...back. I recommend at least the 250 ohm resistance pair though. Any lower and it's crap. Any higher and you need a good headphone amp - which opens up a whole new can of worms regarding sonic coloration that I just don't want to get into.
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't mind a nice pair of Audeze LCD3's or whatever they're hocking these days - but i'm not willing to drop over a grand for a pair of cans (yet).



I'm using the DT -250 closed set,but then,it is for tracking.they too are 250 ohm(hence the name?). As an aside,i use the behringer powerplay headphone amp,the OLD one with a huge toroidal transformer.....lots of power,and lots of gain,and actually pretty much the best heaphone amp I've used to date....gets hot though.Don't like the new variant which uses those cheap chips,they sound a bit mushy to me in comparison.


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 2, 2014)

Really? Behringer and "best" rarely if ever are in the same sentence. Usually it is Behringer and "affordable".


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## MacQ (Mar 2, 2014)

The ATH-M50's are a favourite here. I've used them for 4 or 5 years for reference and for live musicians monitor mixes, but oddly enough only in the past month started to mix with them exclusively.

I was shocked to discover that for this purpose they are outstanding! My mixes translate better than they EVER have before ... cars, ear-buds, home stereos, club systems ... everywhere! They may not be perfectly linear, but they sound great and can be worked with for many many hours (at reasonable listening levels) without significant ear fatigue.

So an enthusiastic +1 from me for the M50's!


----------



## dgburns (Mar 2, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Mar 02 said:


> Really? Behringer and "best" rarely if ever are in the same sentence. Usually it is Behringer and "affordable".



I know...go figure  but this power play thing is built like a tank.Heavy duty class a components and high current design.He basically dumbed it down when he moved manufacturing over to China with inline chip designs.His early rack mount boxes are actually built to high standards.Trouble is trying to find one of the old ones.

I can't tell you how many times singers come in and tell me the headphone mix sounds really good.They tend to sound a bit shocked actually.The thing sounds that good.
go figure...(which is why I make mention of it)


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## shapeshifter00 (Mar 2, 2014)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Hi,

I just ordered a pair of Focal Spirit Professional and im wondering if anyone got any experience with them? Read a lot of positive reviews and I know they are closed-back but already got a pair of AKG K240 so wanted another that will be better for mixing w EQ and compression.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Mar 2, 2014)

dgburns @ Sun Mar 02 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Mar 02 said:
> 
> 
> > Really? Behringer and "best" rarely if ever are in the same sentence. Usually it is Behringer and "affordable".
> ...



Interesting. I use a Rolls, nothing special but works fine. But for $129, maybe I will check it out.


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## ghostnote (Mar 2, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Mar 02 said:


> Just bought Audiotechnica ATH M50x. Very impressed so far.



The replacable cables really rock, just whish they had lowered the highs a bit.



shapeshifter00 @ Sun Mar 02 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just ordered a pair of Focal Spirit Professional and im wondering if anyone got any experience with them? Read a lot of positive reviews and I know they are closed-back but already got a pair of AKG K240 so wanted another that will be better for mixing w EQ and compression.



I think the Focals will be a HUGE improvement over your K240. Here's a review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL3fcqekVUc

BTW, I was checking out the Sennheiser HD 700 and Beyerdynamic T1 yesterday. Maybe it was mostly the amp, but they both were very dissapointing and WAY too bright to my ears (especially the HD700 at 6-7kHz). Will be checking out the HD800 next month, hope they won't dissapoint me either. Heard they have even brighter highs than the 700s. Also next up is the AKG K712, which I'm really looking forward to test. I'll be sharing my experiences here.


----------



## juliansader (Mar 2, 2014)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*



shapeshifter00 @ Sun 02 Mar said:


> I just ordered a pair of Focal Spirit Professional and im wondering if anyone got any experience with them? Read a lot of positive reviews and I know they are closed-back but already got a pair of AKG K240 so wanted another that will be better for mixing w EQ and compression.



I have the Focal Spirit Professional and I am not overly impressed. The sound itself is good, but the noise isolation is practically nonexistent, and the earpads are small and uncomfortable. If you have a nicely soundproofed working environment, the Spirit Professional can be useful for mixing, but definitely not in environments with even slight background noise.


----------



## dgburns (Mar 2, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Mar 02 said:


> dgburns @ Sun Mar 02 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Sun Mar 02 said:
> ...



Jay,if you are looking at a used older one,make sure it has the larger toroidal transformer inside.You will notice that it takes up about 1/3 or 1/4 the inside space off the far right side.If you are looking at the newer ones,they have the signal led's per headphone out.the older ones don't have signal led's on the front panel,and they are much heavier.I don't personally recommend that newer model,we have one of those in another studio here.It's ok,but i'm sure no better then the rolls.
the older one is the one you want.just make sure to give it some clearance for heat.It's one ballsy sounding headphone amp.It can deliver enough clean sound to satisfy a drummer whacking as loud as can be and still sound clear and punchy.Some drummers have even told me to turn DOWN the headphone mix.imagine that!
again,who knew..


----------



## Stinki (Mar 5, 2014)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

At the beginning of the thread are a few websites listed under the heading *Software for mixing on Headphones.* 

Are these considered to be worth using for mixing? 

And are they widely used, especially by those with very good quality headphones?


----------



## Vin (Mar 13, 2014)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

http://www.head-fi.org/products/superlu ... -b/reviews

There are very interesting, especially for that price, and seem to be praised by a lot of people.


----------



## ghostnote (Mar 16, 2014)

*Re: The Ultimate Headphone Thread*

Yesterday I had the chance to get an one and a half hour listening session with the *HD800* powered by the Sennheiser HDVA600 Headamplifier. I was very excited, here're my impressions:

Built and Comfort:
They feel incredibly light, the material quality is excellent. The cups are very big and they have plenty room for your ears (even more than the HD700). Your ears won't touch the cussions, which is a big plus if you ask me. The comfort is quite good, you still feel them on your head, but the pressure is very firm.

How do they sound?:
The first thing that I've noticed was the clarity and the air. Their soundstage is big, and it feels like the music is melting with the environment: I honestly couldn't tell where the soundstage ended and the room began. They do have a boost in the higher frequencies, incredibly refined, but absolutely not piercing or harsch (like the HD700). The highs can be however a bit fatigueing after a while (1 hour +). The second thing that I've noticed was the balance and their timing. They are very fast and their frequency response is relatively flat (coming from the K701 that wasn't a problem for me). I keep reading they would sound artificial, bass shy and overly too bright. But I beg to differ, the bass is very nice and damn fast/accurate, with the right headphoneamp of course. 
Frequency response: http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID (http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompar ... =0&amp;graphID)[]=4061&scale=30

Pros:
- overwhelming amount of detail
- very good sense of timing
- very good instrument seperation
- incredible soundstage
- very good comfort

Cons:
- price
- needs pricy amplification (~700$+)
- can be fatigueing after a while

Bottom line:
These Headphones are... ridiculous... _ridiculously good!_ Words can't describe the magic that is happening between your ears while having these on. Listening to the HD800 is very similar to the feeling that I get when I walk out of the cinema after a really good movie. Everything feels right with these headphones, but they can be a bit fatigueing after a while. I'm not sure how they would behave in a mixing situation and the price will probably hold me off, but if you have the money and do need a high quality headphone for studio use, then YES, try the HD800!
http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD800-Over-Ear-Circum-Aural-Headphone/dp/B001OTZ8DA (http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD800- ... B001OTZ8DA)

Next up: The AKG K712


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## ghostnote (May 31, 2014)

Updated the recommended Headphones. New:

- Focal Spirit Professional and
- AKG K612

Added a Headphone amp section (let me know if you have some recommendations). K712 Review is in the works, if somebody is interested.


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## chimuelo (May 31, 2014)

http://www.amazon.com/Stereo-Female-Extension-Cable-Coiled/dp/B004HRDA7C/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1401537955&sr=8-4&keywords=coiled+1%2F4+cable+extension (http://www.amazon.com/Stereo-Female-Ext ... +extension)

You'll need this to avoid the deadly disease known as FAS, unless you have counter-action-antique technology as a wall phone from the 1900s meant to make you stand, as an offset to Fat Ass Syndrome symptoms.
Possibly get 2, so your set in this ancient technology for decades to come..... 0oD


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## Blake Ewing (May 31, 2014)

Question for the more knowledgeable...

I am looking at the ATH-M50x and the Beyerdynamic DT 880 pro/premium for studio monitoring/mixing.

I have a set of ATH-M45 already for recording.

So, I understand that the Beyerdynamic come in multiple ohm resistance. 

The specs on my Audio IO show headphone output of 350mW at 50 Ω.

Is this enough to power the 250 and/or 600 ohm models of the DT 880, and I'm assuming the ATH-M50x?

I've never really dealt with high quality phones before, and I want to make sure I don't regret a purchase.

Thanks!


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## ghostnote (May 31, 2014)

Blake Ewing @ Sat May 31 said:


> Is this enough to power the 250 and/or 600 ohm models of the DT 880, and I'm assuming the ATH-M50x



The ATH M50s (38 Ohms) are easy to drive, your Interface or Output shouldn't have any problems with that. The DT880 on the other side is a 250 Ohm Headphone. Your 50 Ohm Output (even your iPod) will drive them, but It'll be undefined and low in volume. A Headphoneamp is recommended. The 600 Ohm version will definetely need an Amp. Here's some useful info:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbyuSFyYOVs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usjF3XBR6M8

http://www.head-fi.org/t/630119/if-i-al ... an-amp-too
http://www.head-fi.org/t/653375/audio-i ... dphone-amp


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## rayinstirling (May 31, 2014)

DT770's
'never use them for mixing, only for checking. I also have a Focurite VRM box but I seldom use it.
I really couldn't stand mixing with headphones. I'd rather stop altogether while I still have useful hearing.


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## Jdiggity1 (May 31, 2014)

I can vouch for the Darkvoice THA332 as an amp for DT880 600ohm cans.
Been using it for years and I love it!
Probably a discontinued model now though.

http://cheaptubeaudio.blogspot.com.au/2 ... ha332.html


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## ghostnote (Jun 1, 2014)

rayinstirling @ Sat May 31 said:


> DT770's
> 'never use them for mixing, only for checking. I also have a Focurite VRM box but I seldom use it.
> I really couldn't stand mixing with headphones. I'd rather stop altogether while I still have useful hearing.



The DT770s are known for beeing V shaped and fatigueing (at least for me). Have you tried the newer AKG models?


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## Whatisvalis (Jun 1, 2014)

Just got a pair of the Focal Spirit Professionals. Just a short listen so far, but they seem very detailed and flat.


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## Blake Ewing (Jun 2, 2014)

Michael Chrostek @ Sat May 31 said:


> Blake Ewing @ Sat May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Is this enough to power the 250 and/or 600 ohm models of the DT 880, and I'm assuming the ATH-M50x
> ...



Thanks very much for the links and the info, Michael. I read through them and others, and I guess I am just totally confused by the electrical concepts of impedance and voltage as applied here etc, along with reading about 8:1 ratios of output impedance to headphone impedance. It's been a while since my 11th grade technology class that dealt with that stuff.

It seems through some reading that the headphone output listing of many Audio IO is more of a "load impedance", i.e. 350 mW AT 50ohms in my particular case, which is an important distinction I suppose. I am trying to understand it all.

But, if this is so, I wonder then if there is a way to calculate the mW delivered to a 200ohm headphone such as the DT 880 version. According to its specs it nominal output is 96dB /mW. 

There are several good articles here for anyone else who is interested in this topic:
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-impedance-explained.html

I'm probably over-thinking this whole thing, which is fine, I like to learn. :D


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## ghostnote (Jun 2, 2014)

Blake Ewing @ Mon Jun 02 said:


> Michael Chrostek @ Sat May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Blake Ewing @ Sat May 31 said:
> ...



Ah, nwavguym he's the mind behind the O2 Headamp. Great link, I'll add it to first post. BTW I've added a _Do I need a Headphoneamp?_ section with a lot of useful articles.

The best way to find out if you really need a headamp is to buy both, the M50s and the DT880s. Trust your ears, not the numbers. Compare them with your interface, sent the ones you dont like back (if that's possible). But again, a headphone like the DT880 will benefit from good amplfication.


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## BenBotkin (Jul 21, 2014)

Question: I'm on the verge of purchasing either the ATH M50 or ATH M50x. It seems that except for price (about $120 vs $170) like there is very little difference between the two besides the detachable cables (I plan to use these with one stationary workstation setup, so not sure why the one cable on the M50 would be a problem) and some improved foam in the earpads. For those of you who have tried both, is the comfort level substantially improved? Are there other differences I'm missing that are worth the price difference?

Ideally I would go to a store and try these out but I'm on a deadline and don't have the time for that.


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## ghostnote (Jul 21, 2014)

BenBotkin @ Mon Jul 21 said:


> Question: I'm on the verge of purchasing either the ATH M50 or ATH M50x. It seems that except for price (about $120 vs $170) like there is very little difference between the two besides the detachable cables (I plan to use these with one stationary workstation setup, so not sure why the one cable on the M50 would be a problem) and some improved foam in the earpads. For those of you who have tried both, is the comfort level substantially improved? Are there other differences I'm missing that are worth the price difference?
> 
> Ideally I would go to a store and try these out but I'm on a deadline and don't have the time for that.



Hey there Ben. Here's a comparison between those 2 models:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/le ... 50x-page-2

Had 'em both a while ago and had the same impression: The x-version has bit less treble and more lower bass than the classic M50s. Audio Technica stated that they didn't change the drivers. Maybe it's the Pads, IDK. Personally, I prefered the new ones, not just because of the straight cable. The comfort is still not perfect, but better on the x-version.

Here's the chart:
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID (http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompar ... =0&amp;graphID)[]=2941&graphID[]=4313&scale=30


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## vimonster (Jul 31, 2014)

Very helpful thread.

I'm interested in why headphones are more damaging to our ears than speakers. I see a lot of people say so but without explanation. (I'm not talking about those people who use iphone earbuds on the subway - or in fact any earphones - only headphones).

So let's say you listen on headphones in a silent room vs speakers in a silent room, both set at the same volume, or at least at the same SPL at your ear.

From what I can see the reasons headphones are more damaging are:

1. "In loudspeaker reproduction, sounds must travel several feet before reaching the listener’s ears. By the time they arrive, a portion of the high frequencies have been absorbed by the air. Low frequencies are not absorbed as much, but they are more felt through bone conduction than actually heard. With headphones, the ears hear all frequencies without any attenuation, because the transducers are literally pressed against them. Thus, when listening to headphones at the same effective volume level as loudspeakers, headphones may still transmit louder high frequencies that are more likely to cause hearing damage."

So as I understand that, with speakers you feel it's loud enough without it actually being as loud in those higher frequencies as with headphones..?

2. Closed back headphones reflect all sound directly back into your ear so there is no respite or pause as with speakers, and perhaps some resonance can occur in your ear (?)

3. This one is partly psychological: Due to lack of external cues such as conversation or noises, the headphone listener gradually becomes accustomed to the volume and feels the need to increase it.

- What do you all think about these three points? Are there any others?

- Are open backed headphones better because of these reasons?

I ask because I will have to mix on headphones for some months quite soon and I am trying to figure out which are the best to get to avoid hearing loss.


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## Michael Barry (Jul 31, 2014)

We've been arming our composers with 

1) Benchmark audio's DAC 1 Usb

2) Beyerdynamic Dt 880 Pro

I use it too, couldn't ask for more

A headphone (chain too) is worth only the hours you've spent listening to your favorite music on it (so you can recall by memory the frequency response etc..) aka learn your headphones


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## danielcartisano (Jul 31, 2014)

I'm currently using DT880 Pro's, excellent cans.

I'm going to be getting some ATH-M50s soon as a second reference.


In other news, has anyone mixed on the LCD-2 or LCD-3's?

Also, anyone had experience with the SPL Phonitor, some tell me it's an amazingly accurate mixing solution for those without a good room.


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## Jason_D (Jul 31, 2014)

I wore the DT 990 Pro headphones for about 8 months at 6 hours a day and if I forgot to adjust them to a different spot on my head I would get irritated. They are just a little too heavy for me. 

I'm currently using the HD 558 but if you want higher impedance (better damping factor) you can try the HD 600/650.


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## Stephen Rees (Jul 31, 2014)

Sennheiser HD650s here run through a Lavry DA10. Very pleased


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## ghostnote (Aug 1, 2014)

Some very good questions vimonster. I made the experience that a flat frequency reproduction and an open design isn't a guarantee for fatigue free listening. I always had problems with my hearing when I've mixed with my sennheisers. I still love my HD650s btw, but only for personal music enjoyment. Then I've switched to the K701 and since then have had absolutely no problems with my hearing whatsoever. Although obviously, the K701 is a lot brighter than the HD650, the K701 is able to reproduce the sound without any fatigue IMO. Of course: If you're listen at moderate levels! People keep saying: Don't mix on phones! tinnitus! hearing loss! But on the other side they only have heard 2 models 20 years ago. So there definetely has to be something with the technology behind it that distinguishes them from another. BTW I'm alyways listening at low volume levels and people who are checking my setup (HD650 + G109-S) keep asking me: Why is this so quiet? I always say to them they have to learn to listen.


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## Oliviawills (Aug 1, 2014)

You have shared informative and useful thread of Headphone. It deserves appreciation.


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## vimonster (Aug 1, 2014)

Michael Chrostek @ Fri Aug 01 said:


> Some very good questions vimonster. I made the experience that a flat frequency reproduction and an open design isn't a guarantee for fatigue free listening. I always had problems with my hearing when I've mixed with my sennheisers. I still love my HD650s btw, but only for personal music enjoyment. Then I've switched to the K701 and since then have had absolutely no problems with my hearing whatsoever. Although obviously, the K701 is a lot brighter than the HD650, the K701 is able to reproduce the sound without any fatigue IMO. Of course: If you're listen at moderate levels! People keep saying: Don't mix on phones! tinnitus! hearing loss! But on the other side they only have heard 2 models 20 years ago. So there definetely has to be something with the technology behind it that distinguishes them from another. BTW I'm alyways listening at low volume levels and people who are checking my setup (HD650 + G109-S) keep asking me: Why is this so quiet? I always say to them they have to learn to listen.



Hey Michael,

I find headphone choice to be incredibly difficult, also because very few have been comfortable for long periods - physically - on my head. I'm now trying to find a pair which meet these criteria:

1. Comfortable physically / light on head (I wear glasses which makes it even harder)
2. Primarily for mixing and mastering
3. Least damaging to my ears
4. Doesn't need an amp

Therefore I'm thinking an open backed design, possibly the AKG K702, or the Sennheiser HD650. But either of those without an amp? I'm not sure.

The biggest problem these days is that there are almost no shops left where I can go and try them out!

Forgot to add - also considering Sennheiser's 598 / 558 / 518 etc as convenient for traveling without amps. However, I guess these are much worse for mixing on as they aren't giving a flat response.


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## ghostnote (Aug 1, 2014)

Yeah, it's very difficult! There really is no perfect headphone.

You're right, the Sennheiser HD5XX series is not ideal for mixing. The ATH M50x or the Focal Spirit Pro seem to match your criteria. They are closed, won't need an amp and are portable. If I'd go for an open model I'd choose the HD600 over the HD650. They are easier to drive and their frequency response is flatter. Of course, the K702 is another option and can be driven with most good audio interface outputs. The AKG K612 is also very good. Have you considered ordering your headphones from www.thomann.de/gb? They offer a 30 day money back guarantee. Order two headphones, compare them and send the one you don't like back.


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## vimonster (Aug 1, 2014)

Thanks for the advice.

I'm keen to avoid a closed back design because I'm concerned about hearing loss. I'm not sure my points before were correct, but I'd rather not take the chance unless I'm sure.. I also hear open backed is better for mixing.

I'm leaning towards the k702 (60 ohm) since its impedance is quite low, so should work ok with my set up. Even my Sennheiser HD25 (with 70 ohm impedance) work fine plugged directly into my laptop. Again, I might be missing something here.

I'm going to try and go to some shops here in London to try them out, I think there are a few in central which still stock a decent range.

(I never actually use my Sennheiser's for anything because they are so uncomfortable! It feels like someone is trying to squeeze my brains out through my ears after half an hour or so).


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## ghostnote (Aug 1, 2014)

Open back is better for mixing because the low frequencys will have more room to evolve. This will lead to a more accurate and extended low end.

The HD600/650 do also have this "sennheiser grip", but they can get very comfortable after sqeezing the pads and gently bending the metal parts of the headband. If you find a shop with a K702 and you find out that you don't like the sound and/or comfort, then give the K712 a try. They cost almost double as much but they have more bass and their comfort is incredible. The DT880 are also very comfortable, but they do have this spike at 8kHz which I personally don't like.


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## vimonster (Aug 1, 2014)

Michael Chrostek @ Fri Aug 01 said:


> Open back is better for mixing because the low frequencys will have more room to evolve. This will lead to a more accurate and extended low end.
> 
> The HD600/650 do also have this "sennheiser grip", but they can get very comfortable after sqeezing the pads and gently bending the metal parts of the headband. If you find a shop with a K702 and you find out that you don't like the sound and/or comfort, then give the K712 a try. They cost almost double as much but they have more bass and their comfort is incredible. The DT880 are also very comfortable, but they do have this spike at 8kHz which I personally don't like.



Haha, I like your terminology - "sennheiser grip" sounds about right. In general I like the feel of AKG phones, the other pair I have are so light and comfortable (but also really crap).

I guess you must know of http://www.headphone.com/pages/build-a-graph

It looks like the k712 has a peak at about 7k. I'm not sure how flat I would want the frequency response to be but that's a bit worrying. k712 also looks to have much more bass and mid compared to the k702.

Haha, this is so hilariously complicated.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 1, 2014)

Funny, I've never found big ol' closed headphones to be uncomfortable. And in fact I've never considered headphone choice to be brain surgery, probably because I don't use them as a substitute for mixing on speakers. In other words I don't expect a lot - sort of like the 1990s rule about people expecting really high quality from a DAT demo but not from a cassette.

I have a couple of pairs of AKG 240Ms - studio-standard, nothing spectacular to listen to, but they're quite good. They have sort of an old Tannoy quality - dull and unflattering, but everything you need to hear is there.

And for airplanes I LOVE my Bose Quiet Comfort IIIs. They have a LF boost - which you want on an airplane - but the boost isn't a hyped curve, it's like the woofer has been turned up. So instead of being annoying, it presents an interesting perspective.

Did I mention that I LOVE those headphones? They're the best invention since Vienna Ensemble Pro. And if I could only have one pair, I'd have no hesitation whatsoever.


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## madbulk (Aug 1, 2014)

They are also 325 dollars, Nick. 
I'm giving Bose 300 dollars? These had better be something else, Dude.

Yes, I'm buying them on your say so. Gift for wife.


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## vimonster (Aug 1, 2014)

Yea I'm deliberating so much because I'm going to be using them to mix on exclusively for quite a few months coming up (I have no choice for this period) and really want to get the best thing for that time. Otherwise... speakers of course.


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## ghostnote (Aug 2, 2014)

Actually it's the "sennheiser death grip" 

Yep, finding a headphone can be one long quest. 

Had the K712 here for a week or so. Their comfort is a lot better than my K701s. The peak at 7kHz wasn't bothering me much. That leads me to my assumption that, regarding the fatigue level, the frequency response isn't as important as I innitially thought. It's the driver-technology. The DT880 has a similar peak, but it's way more harsch sounding IMO. 

The K712 had also a darker sound signature than my K701s, because the upper mids are kind of recessed. I still think the K701/702 are the flattest/most linear headphones out there, but they're also very bright. The HD600 are the most natural sounding headphones. The HD650s on the other side are similar to the HD600, but very relaxed sounding, not 100% linear. A good choice if you're allergic to high frequencies. I've heard many people saying that they like the HD600 more than the HD650, also the K712 and the Q701 more than the K701/702.

You see, we could talk day and night about headphones. Go to the shops and bring your glasses!


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## Stinki (Aug 9, 2014)

Michael Chrostek @ Fri Aug 01 said:


> I always had problems with my hearing when I've mixed with my sennheisers. I still love my HD650s btw, but only for personal music enjoyment. Then I've switched to the K701 and since then have had absolutely no problems with my hearing whatsoever.



Michael, as a HD650 user, I am curious to know what sort of hearing problem you attribute to the HD650s. Is it something that stayed with you long after using them? And are you still free of it after using the K701s for awhile?


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## ghostnote (Aug 9, 2014)

Stinki @ Sat Aug 09 said:


> Michael Chrostek @ Fri Aug 01 said:
> 
> 
> > I always had problems with my hearing when I've mixed with my sennheisers. I still love my HD650s btw, but only for personal music enjoyment. Then I've switched to the K701 and since then have had absolutely no problems with my hearing whatsoever.
> ...



The HD650 has a treble roll-off. That's why I tend to raise the volume on the 650s a bit more than on other headphones. The lower frequencies become more prominent and this can lead to fatigue, but the fatigue went away after a couple of days. The K701/601 are more linear, this way I can work at quiter lvls, which of course is better for the hearing.


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## tmm (Aug 11, 2014)

Currently using a set of the new(er) Beyer Custom Studio phones... Just went to look them up to compare, and I can't find any info on them now, just the Custom One Pro. No idea if that's the same thing with a different name and more cosmetic options or not, but it costs $70 less, so maybe it really is different?

I have the above mentioned Beyers, and some HD280s. I love the Beyers, I use those for 90% of my work, with the other 10% split between the HD280s, which are good for fine-tuning highs, a set of high-end Shure earbuds, which are super uncomfortable, but provide an interesting perspective that's different from the other 2, and some old Sony speakers that I know and love. My mixing situation requires that most of my work be done in a headphones, hence why I haven't really pursued more expensive nearfields.

I'm always on the quest for the audio tools that best meet my needs, so I'm still keeping an eye out for (potentially) better phones, though I'm really enjoying the Beyers, and finding their results the most pleasing of any monitoring source I've owned to-date.

Since getting more serious about my sound, I'd always thought, "someday, I'll get a pair of HD650s," because I'd always heard such great things about them.

Reading through this thread, and a few more, I'm now also very interested in the Focal Spirit Pros.

Thing is, I currently have the opportunity to get either pair of cans (the HD650s or the Focals) for the same price.

Any guidance as to which path may be better? I'm not planning on ditching my current tools, either, so suggestions that take into account my existing monitoring are fine too.


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## tokatila (Oct 6, 2014)

I have done some serious testing and this is my current-set up:

Sennheiser HD700 for mixing
Sennheiser HD650 for non-analytical long time listening (darker treble roll-off = non-fatiguing :wink
Focal Spirit Professional for mixing/composing at night

I auditioned HD800 over a weekend, but couldn't justify (read afford) the price over HD700 (double). If I were richer these would have been my to-go mixing phones. HD650 won over HD600, since while I found HD600 more neutral I also found it more fatiguing in the long run. HD600 will let you see the music, HD650 to feel it.

I had a real difficult time with closed cans, but Focal Spirit Pro is unbelievable for the price and being a closed design. Highly recommended.


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## Brobdingnagian (Oct 6, 2014)

"I had a real difficult time with closed cans, but Focal Spirit Pro is unbelievable for the price and being a closed design. Highly recommended."

Yes. Agreed. Lovely set of cans. Very pleased with mine.


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## ghostnote (Oct 6, 2014)

tokatila @ Mon Oct 06 said:


> Sennheiser HD700 for mixing



Interesting. I found them to be very treble happy (on the Lehmann Linear). Wouldn't be my first choice for mixing.

These seem to be very interesting, apparantly the first fatigue free headphones:
http://www.ultrasone-headphones.com/en/products/performance/performance880 (http://www.ultrasone-headphones.com/en/ ... ormance880)

Here's what Ultrasone says:


> Unique? Yes! Revolutionary? Definitely! The patented S-Logic™ technology is described as Natural Surround Sound System. No other digital surround system can compare with this standard. As the sound of a normal headphones will sound direct and even on both sides, the S-Logic™ system pushes the sound around your head! It appears as though you are listening to speakers meters away. Even at very low levels, this spacious sound allows you to hear and listen to each and every individual sound. And on top of that, the S-Logic™ technology does not require additional equipment!


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## tokatila (Oct 6, 2014)

Michael Chrostek @ Mon Oct 06 said:


> tokatila @ Mon Oct 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Sennheiser HD700 for mixing
> ...



Yeah, I understand. They surely aren't without fault and the biggest Achilles heel is that sometimes treble can be quite piercing and maybe too much for some. But I don't see that as a big problem since if I mix treble too low it's much more enjoyable than if it's mixed too high.

And they have many strong points like an awesomely tight bass, wide "headstage" probably due to the dimensions, are they are also the most comfortable headphones I have tested. And surely analytical enough for my ears. They are not good as 800s but much much speaker.

I wouldn't buy anything from Ultrasone. 
See here why: 

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/ ... slide=id.p


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## ghostnote (Oct 6, 2014)

tokatila @ Mon Oct 06 said:


> And they have many strong points like an awesomely tight bass, wide "headstage", are they are also the most comfortable headphones I have tested. They are not good as 800s but much much speaker.



Agreed, they definetely have their strong points. 

Thanks for the link. I'll probably try them anyway.


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## chimuelo (Aug 3, 2015)

Well seems like you haven't tried the best option yet.

Have an Audiologist make silicon molds of your ears.
Get IEMs.
People that are going to be listening to y our music will
Be using them.
Why not prepare for the target audience.?


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## synthpunk (Aug 3, 2015)

Not to be a buzzkill but most audiologists will recommended not using IEM's and ear buds if you want your hearing when you get old. I also just read where apple will no longer be including ear buds with there ipods and iphones. 



chimuelo said:


> Well seems like you haven't tried the best option yet.
> 
> Have an Audiologist make silicon molds of your ears.
> Get IEMs.
> ...


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## TheRoot (Aug 4, 2015)

I use the Ultimate Ears Reverence for Mixing / Mastering and to compensate for a sh*tty room acoustic.
Own them for about 3-4 years now and I would not go for any other In-Ear. Although they eventually lack ability to mix low frequencies. It's a magnifier when mixing.

One has to take care of the loudness though, because if I get to excitied I easily crank the volume up.



tokatila said:


> I wouldn't buy anything from Ultrasone.
> See here why:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/ ... slide=id.p



That was clearly amazing.


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## chimuelo (Aug 4, 2015)

Would love the links to what you've read.
Audiology is basically what it is today from wearable technology.
At the VA they employ Audiologists for Veterans from Artillery and Infantry Regiments.
Other than that they are all over the wearable gear.

There are problems where guys ears get blown up by mistakes made from the crew running the monitor sends.
I don't have a crew, so the only time I have a problem is when I forget to bring my vented IEMs and have to go with 100% isolation.

But trust me, once you use some IEMs custom, with 24 drivers (12 way stereo) you won't want to be handcuffed to your desk again.

Peace


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## sIR dORT (Apr 24, 2020)

Reviving an awesome thread  

I'd been looking at the Audio Technica ATH M50x and saw that they were on this list. Are they still thought of as one of the better closed-back headphones out there for mixing/mastering? I'm on a budget and will be using them in public places, hence the need for closed-back.


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