# "Hey - can I use your music?" "No." "Too bad, I am going to use it anyway."



## RiffWraith (Jul 24, 2011)

Oy.

I get an email on my youtube channel about a week ago. This guy wants to use one of my tracks for something. I politely tell him no. He then comes back to me, and tells me it's ok, he found a converter to convert my vid to audio, so that he could use it.

"So, you are going to use it even tho I said no?"

"Yes... because i have'nt really found a good soundtrack and this one fits really good and i dont have that much time dude :D"

WTF is wrong with people. Ok, he's 18; he isn't matured yet. But still - he doesn't yet have the human decency to respect other people's property and respect their wishes? Man....

Anyway, his name is Emil and this is him:

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/Emil.jpg

and his YT ch is here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Emiliouus

If you happen to see him, smack him for me, ok? Well, not really, but you know what I mean...


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## Dan Mott (Jul 24, 2011)

Hmm. What a prick, but it isn't all that bad. I'd be annoyed, but at the same time I'd be thinking... hmm.. maybe it's a good thing because if he is using it, I'd be happy to take it as some sort of way to promote my music. Maybe some of his friend will go.. "Hey man. Where did you get that track from? Who is it by?" Chances are he will send that dude to your YouTube channel.

No?


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## autopilot (Jul 24, 2011)

No means No Dan.


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## Mike Marino (Jul 24, 2011)

Hey might Dan-Jay....of course, he might also send his friend there with the new video-audio converter as well.

I mean, it could turn out fine....but chances are, this kid's a bonehead. Sorry Riff; that really sucks.

Orrrr, you could tell him not to use your track in a more direct way.

- Mike


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 24, 2011)

It's just wrong.


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## choc0thrax (Jul 24, 2011)

You gotta give him props for even bothering to ask.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 24, 2011)

Well. These are the risks of putting tracks up on YouTube. 

Anybody can steal a song from anywhere without you knowing it. Where it be Souncloud, YouTube, Ect. People can download links and also record the song on some sort of recorder on their computer. 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this happened to me, I'd just expect it to happen (If somebody liked my song ofcourse).

I don't know, if it were me, I wouldn't care too much. The more people that listen, the better really because I know that there are people that actually buy songs out there, such as my self. So I'd feel kind of good because more people would be hearing it, even if it is getting stolen. Surely they would have some mates that would buy your stuff.... If it is avaliable that is?


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## nikolas (Jul 24, 2011)

Riff, it does really suck! :( If I come across him I'll smack him for you. Or perhaps we could just spam teh sh1t out of him on his youtube channel? 

BTW, Am I the only one to have a tiny chuckle with the 'no means no' phrase used here? :D


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## Ian Dorsch (Jul 24, 2011)

So...what would you call that dude's hairdo? Fro-hawk? I am getting serious douche-chills from looking at that pic.


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## Reegs (Jul 24, 2011)

Hey Riff,

Sorry to hear about it. 

Go legalese on his ass if need be!
Consider congratulating him on finding a way to steal your music. Inform him that should he use your music in his video without obtaining the proper licensing from you he will be in violation of Youtube's TOS 6B, and that you will be forced to take action in accordance to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and Youtube TOS 8A, including but not limited to the pursuance of any damages or losses incurred through the unauthorized association of your name and services with his brand. Optionally, send him your rate card, with a zero or two added to each track's price. 

Also,
Ee-gad! He's got quite the colorful youtube wallpaper!

-Reegs

Edit: Also tell him since he's under 18 his parents would be named as defendants in any legal action. The humiliation threat from that alone ought to keep him away from your music.


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## Mike Marino (Jul 24, 2011)

Hey, maybe his little video project will go viral or something, then sue his pants off as Reegs is sayin'.

- Mike


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## midphase (Jul 24, 2011)

Meh...just notify YouTube that his video is infringing on your copyright and they'll take it down. It's really pretty simple and fairly quick.


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## Lex (Jul 24, 2011)

midphase @ Mon Jul 25 said:


> Meh...just notify YouTube that his video is infringing on your copyright and they'll take it down. It's really pretty simple and fairly quick.



+1


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## autopilot (Jul 25, 2011)

Given that he is under 18, why not take the opportunity to teach - let him know that as a professional, you are losing money by him using your music. 

Explain to him as one individual to another how you can understand that it seems harmless enough but your skill and talent has created something of value, which he obviously recognises in wanting to use it, but that your time, talent, and money invested in gear and samples are being ripped off. 

Tell him you appreciate that he's probably got no money, and wants to have fun dicking around on the net, but that he's gone the wrong way about it and he needs to not use the piece becasue as it;s creator you are the one that gets to make that decision. 

If he wants to have a future in the industry he needs to learn that respect between individuals and collaborators is probably the most important skill he can have. 

People will help each other - people will particularly help people starting out if it's done with respect and good will - but not if they're going to be ignored and shat upon. 

In the end it's a very, very, very small industry and he'll be shooting himself in the foot if he wants any kind of career ahead - because karma and reputation follow you everywhere - particularly in a digital world where everything is written in ink. 

He is at a crossroads. He can listen, and learn and show some respect or trample on a fellow artist. 

And if that doesn't work sue his mom and dad


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## dcoscina (Jul 25, 2011)

This is why I don't put out much finished product music on the web. Most of my stuff is work in progress or a section from a larger work since I would be royally pissed if something I'd worked my ass off on for months was arbitrarily copied without my approval.


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## Jimbo 88 (Jul 25, 2011)

OK, just to play Devil's Advocate...

He is not selling anything. Jeffery is not profiting. What are you losing from this video? Overexposer? I'm not sure how you lose on his youtube video.

Just asking... 'cause if you said "no" it should be "no". I'm totally with you on that issue.


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## Ed (Jul 25, 2011)

RiffWraith @ Sun Jul 24 said:


> If you happen to see him, smack him for me, ok? Well, not really, but you know what I mean...



As others have said just flag his channel if it pisses you off!


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## TheUnfinished (Jul 25, 2011)

Jimbo 88 @ Mon Jul 25 said:


> OK, just to play Devil's Advocate...
> 
> He is not selling anything. Jeffery is not profiting. What are you losing from this video? Overexposer? I'm not sure how you lose on his youtube video.
> 
> Just asking... 'cause if you said "no" it should be "no". I'm totally with you on that issue.


He could lose out if this guy's ideo is a pile of poo.

And we all lose out every time some douchebag gets away with a trick like this. Because it will become the accepted norm.


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## Stephen Baysted (Jul 25, 2011)

Jimbo 88 @ Mon Jul 25 said:


> OK, just to play Devil's Advocate...
> 
> He is not selling anything. Jeffery is not profiting. What are you losing from this video? Overexposer? I'm not sure how you lose on his youtube video.
> 
> Just asking... 'cause if you said "no" it should be "no". I'm totally with you on that issue.




Well, You Tube is/will be profitting from advertising. Whilst it isn't that straightforward to monetise your own material, it can be done (my publisher is doing it for me right now). I recently found that - amongst lots of other things being used without my permission - there were two videos using music of mine (using the same track from a game) that had 2.5 million and 6.4 million views respectively. You Tube is paying out on these now. 

@Riff, you can stop the guy using the music by alerting You Tube to the infringement. It might teach the thieving pillock a lesson. 

Cheers


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## madbulk (Jul 25, 2011)

I just slapped a kid who looked kinda like him, or was at least wearing glasses. 
You're welcome.


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## PMortise (Jul 25, 2011)

choc0thrax @ Sun Jul 24 said:


> You gotta give him props for even bothering to ask.


I sincerely hope that was just sarcasm.


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## madbulk (Jul 25, 2011)

You're new, eh?


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## PMortise (Jul 25, 2011)

o


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## Patrick_Gill (Jul 25, 2011)

That is just wrong! 


Sorry to hear that Jeff , hope you get it sorted.

I had a similar issue a while back..

Some guy re-uploaded my track to his own Youtube channel, which at the time I wasnt too annoyed with because at they'd given me credit, but then I found another with a megaupload download link in the description!. Cheeky bastard.. I emailed him and told him to remove the link and threw a load of legal terminology right hooks at him. Luckily he was compliant!. I'd recommend that and if you get no luck report it to youtube.

Kinda sucks there isnt more protection for Youtube/Soundcloud etc. Someone needs to come up with something.

Patrick.,


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## reddognoyz (Jul 25, 2011)

I think I would be pragmatic about it, not positive as it hasn't happened to me yet. If he was making money off of his video in an amount that made you think it'd be worth go after then I'd say do it, or cut a deal with him, which would probably be the easiest thing to do. 

otherwise I'd just let it slide... but I may be missing an important downside who know?


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## NYC Composer (Jul 27, 2011)

reddognoyz @ Mon Jul 25 said:


> I think I would be pragmatic about it, not positive as it hasn't happened to me yet. If he was making money off of his video in an amount that made you think it'd be worth go after then I'd say do it, or cut a deal with him, which would probably be the easiest thing to do.
> 
> otherwise I'd just let it slide... but I may be missing an important downside who know?



What sort of deal? "Tell you what-I'll take a small fee in produce. Do you own any chickens? Do you grow corn? Okay okay, can you at least crochet something for me??"


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## dpasdernick (Jul 27, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Sun Jul 24 said:


> Hmm. What a prick, but it isn't all that bad. I'd be annoyed, but at the same time I'd be thinking... hmm.. maybe it's a good thing because if he is using it, I'd be happy to take it as some sort of way to promote my music. Maybe some of his friend will go.. "Hey man. Where did you get that track from? Who is it by?" Chances are he will send that dude to your YouTube channel.
> 
> No?



And you can bet all of his friends are mega-rich record moguls who are jonesing to sign you up... 

I can't believe he had the audacity to go ahead even after he was told no. Kids these days...


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## Ed (Jul 27, 2011)

Don't forget that its good for exposure only if the guy gets lots of views which might be worth not flagging him, but then if he isn't getting lots of views then he won't be using the music to get any revenue sharing from youtube so it might not be worth flagging him (not that its difficult to flag someone). Since he gets hardly any views and hardly any subs it seems the only the only reason to flag him is if he pisses you off 

An an aside, youtube partners technically aren't allowed to use copyrighted music footage from other people (unless its licenced) to qualfy for revenue sharing on their videos, not even as "fair use" is concerned. That doesn't stop many of them, but technically they arent supposed to do it by their rules. Some observe the rule more than others.


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## choc0thrax (Jul 27, 2011)

PMortise @ Mon Jul 25 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sun Jul 24 said:
> 
> 
> > You gotta give him props for even bothering to ask.
> ...



Not really sarcasm. I just know there's a lot of 18 year olds out there that wouldn't even bother asking. He's like one of those nice burglars... the one's that leave a note in your place saying sorry for stealin' your shit.


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## Cruciform (Jul 27, 2011)

I had a request from a young guy asking to use some of my youtube tracks in his machinima vids so I gave him a list of ones he could use and ones that were not to be used. He agreed and even credited me on his vids (not that they'll be seen by many people). But I was so impressed with his honesty and integrity I sent him the mp3's of the ones he wanted so he didn't have to rip the crappy stream. He's been good to his word.

Just saying there's all sorts there and some give you hope.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 30, 2011)

Thanks for all the responses.

Here is the vid with my music:



Harmless enough, but again, the point is, I told him no.


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## Casey Edwards (Jul 30, 2011)

If we're going for a mass YouTube mob then count me in. Music rape needs to be fought against. NO MEANS NO. =o


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## mverta (Jul 30, 2011)

His parents are assholes.

_Mike


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## wst3 (Jul 30, 2011)

sadly I'm afraid that this is exactly where we are headed in terms of respect for intellectual property... I try to be optimistic, but something like this makes it very difficult!!!

Me: "Hey, can I have a free copy of <fill in the blank> library?

Developer: "No, but you can buy it"

Me: "Nah, never mind, I'll just download a cracked copy"

Which is really bad!

But to progress to:

Me: "can I use your music - for no charge?"

Him: "no"

Me: "ah, sorry I asked, I'm going to use it anyway!"

The thing about the second case is that while it may appear to be a positive thing that the cretin asked permission first, the fact that he ignored the answer makes it moot. There is no value to asking permission if you are going to ignore the answer.

There are literally dozens of reasons why a composer might prefer not to have their music associated with other content - that is the reason we have sync licenses in addition to all the other copyright protections. To ignore that is just rude, and wrong, on so many levels!


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## NYC Composer (Jul 30, 2011)

Did you contact YouTube?


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## RiffWraith (Jul 31, 2011)

UPDATE

Several - well, more than several - people from the GS forum (where I have an identical thread) left comments that apparently mad this guy think twice about leaving the vid up; it has been taken down.

I was all ready to file a copyright claim w/YT, but now that will not be necessary. Still pissed off he took the music and used it for that show of his, but...

Thanks for the show of support! :D


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## RiffWraith (Aug 1, 2011)

Ah jeez - another one. :roll: 

Well, almost - turned out ok, and was easy to deal with, but I mean....

_I used this song in my trailer and I'm uploading it as we speak.  I will give you full credit and if you want me to take it down I will do so. I believe the song is free so I went and did it anyway, but check out the trailer if you have any free time :D_

:roll: 

I write back:

_This song is NOT free - I am not sure why you said you think it is. Credit given or not, I would like you to NOT put it up, and take it down if you have. 

Thank you._

And he took it down, and then apologized.

So, the Q remains - why would anyone think that the music put up by artists on youtube - anyone, that is - would be free? He asked me if he could purchase the song, 'like on iTunes, or sumtin.' I told him that I could license the music to him, if he has several thousand dollars to spend. Don't think I'll be hearing from him again anytime soon. :lol:


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