# How do you support yourself starting out



## nick7er (Nov 14, 2016)

Hi all,

I'm in a bit of a conundrum. My plan was, because from what I've heard there's no better place to get film work and network than Los Angeles, to move to the city with a part-time job to support myself until I could rely on my music income to do so. I was naive to adopt this plan. My part-time job (as a tutor) has quickly fallen away and I'm left without an income. Meanwhile I'm burning through my savings living in LA. I have no disillusions that my music, while some have told me is "good writing," needs a LOT of work in the production quality department. Mostly I need to learn how to mix and how to incorporate electronic elements into my work, and how to add more expression to my samples, and possibly buy more samples. Anyway, enough with the specifics of my situation - what I'm saying is I'd love to hear what kinds of jobs others on this forum have used to support themselves and their home studios (which cost money to maintain) while getting a foothold in this business. If your advice is to not move to LA until you're already rolling and have gained somewhat of a reputation in this business, than where are some alternative places to live that are cheaper but still have reasonable film scenes? I desperately don't want to move back home and live with my parents. I've just graduated from college (University of Pennsylvania) but with a kind-of useless Music BA. Then there's the grad-school question - my parents have offered some support for me if I were to pursue it but from everything I've heard it's kind of a gamble in itself?

I know I'm asking a lot here but really if you're gaining a fairly reliable source of income from your film music I'd love to know how you got to that point. Thanks, and I look forward to getting better acquainted with you all!


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## InLight-Tone (Nov 14, 2016)

I think Daniel James has proven you can live anywhere in the world and still work in the indusrty succesfully, i.e., location is irrelevant.


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## Desire Inspires (Nov 14, 2016)

Get another day job and continue to work on your music. 

Thousands of other people in LA are doing the same thing. Some will make it, most will not. But having an income is essential to surviving. 

Don't quit your day job until the money you make from music is enough to support you.


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## Jack Weaver (Nov 14, 2016)

Thelonious Monk drove a cab. 

.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 14, 2016)

I've always wondered how people can afford to live in Cali. It's definitely my favorite state, and I would love to live there, but I really don't want to live in a 500 square foot studio for the rest of my life.


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## synthpunk (Nov 14, 2016)

Learn to make good coffee, tea, cook, listen, buy some good cleaning gloves for the bathrooms, learn to fix stuff, and be honest with people.


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## nick7er (Nov 14, 2016)

Thanks for the input, everyone!



Desire Inspires said:


> Get another day job and continue to work on your music.
> 
> Thousands of other people in LA are doing the same thing. Some will make it, most will not. But having an income is essential to surviving.
> 
> Don't quit your day job until the money you make from music is enough to support you.



I guess to follow-up, what kinds of day jobs are we looking at, specifically? Do these people have white-collar jobs or do they make something like a sales associate position work out? If you've heard of any real-life examples let me know!


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## Desire Inspires (Nov 14, 2016)

nick7er said:


> Thanks for the input, everyone!
> 
> 
> I guess to follow-up, what kinds of day jobs are we looking at, specifically? Do these people have white-collar jobs or do they make something like a sales associate position work out? If you've heard of any real-life examples let me know!



Do you have an education? Do you have work experience? It all varies on what you can do. Some people work at Google and write screenplays. Some work at Starbucks and play guitar. Some work as teachers and practice acting. 

You can do what you already do and continue to work in that field while working on music. If you don't have any work experience, you will struggle to find a job that pays good money. But you have to get started. In LA, you can be making someone's coffee or doing someone's dry cleaning and get connected with someone that can help you out in your music career.

Get to work. Do a dayjob to make money and keep working on your music. It will not be an overnight success story. Keep on working and never give up. You have to do the hard work to get to where you want to be.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 14, 2016)

Jack Weaver said:


> Thelonious Monk drove a cab.
> 
> .



And apart from Charles Ives being a composer, he worked as an insurance agent too.


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## just2high (Nov 14, 2016)

nick7er said:


> Thanks for the input, everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> I guess to follow-up, what kinds of day jobs are we looking at, specifically? Do these people have white-collar jobs or do they make something like a sales associate position work out? If you've heard of any real-life examples let me know!



I would say look at your situation and evaluate what kind of income do you need to make. Break down your monthly bills and identify a number that you HAVE to have to survive (rent + bills + food). If you need money ASAP to pay rent then you can't be very choosey on the job you take. If the job doesn't pay enough (due to hours or wage) for you to make your bottom line that also won't help. But if you have some cushion, it might be worth to try and find a job that you will enjoy doing everyday or may somehow give you opportunities to do music. I was fortunate enough to find work in live theater as a sound engineer which also helped me build contacts in the process. Look at schools (all levels), Arts organizations, music stores, libraries, or maybe something you'd like to learn more about.

When evaluating job options, think about what things you like, it's important to find a job that you won't resent going to everyday, nothing kills spirit faster, but again some don't have that luxury. Of secondary importance is finding a job that doesn't suck up all of your time so you can go home and continue to work on your craft. A bonus is if the job is flexible enough to give you time off if you do happen to land a big gig.

Regarding grad school, having been in this boat as well, I'd be careful before you jump into it. Given the current economic climate and the political climate, I would suggest waiting to see what happens first. I would very seriously think twice before going into debt for grad school, it's not fun on the other end. The other considerations for grad school are what do you want to get out of it? The school can only give you so much, the other half comes from what you put into it yourself as well. In the end I decided that I didn't have enough knowledge to write the music I wanted to write so I went for it. I also found that grad school really wasn't enough and I'm still learning.

Finally, keep writing. Whatever you do don't stop, that's the only way you get better. I actually spent money for lessons when I got out of school just to make myself keep accountable. Also give yourself time. It takes a long time to build a career. A long time ago I took one of the Pacific Northwest Filmscoring courses with Hummie Mann and the first thing he said to the class was, "What we need all of you to do is to throw yourselves against the wall like spaghetti to see who sticks." You gotta be in it for the long haul. Don't lose sight of where you want to be. Some days you'll want to quit. On those days take a break and pull out that filmscore that did it for you and remember why you want to do what you want to do.


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## Jdiggity1 (Nov 14, 2016)

get good


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## JJP (Nov 15, 2016)

In case it helps, here's my story....

After getting a BA in music performance, I spent my first year outside Chicago where I split my time between three exhausting part-time jobs:
- working construction with my father's ironworking company (I learned that good crane operators are worth their weight in gold, and that it can be fun setting steel girders when the weather is nice - not so much when it's below freezing and windy.)
- substitute teaching for grades 7-12
- gigging as jazz musician in Chicago mostly at night.

My wife and I moved to New York City after a year where for the next two years I worked the following jobs:
- office temp for everything from law firms to art galleries, to healthcare companies through a temp agency in Manhattan which led to a full time office job at a dot-com consultancy
- gigging jazz musician (part time)
- a little bit of composing and engraving work (not really enough to matter)

My wife's internship at a jingle house turned into a full time job. Through that connection we demoed for and won a gig to compose for a worldwide TV ad that made us a bunch of money and also led to us getting a fellowship for a month with Mike Post in Los Angeles.

After the fellowship, Mike encouraged us to move to LA, but first go back to NYC and save up enough money to survive in LA for a year without any work. He said this was necessary because even though he thought we had a future there, nobody would give any substantial work in the film or TV biz for probably a year or so.

We went back to NYC and my wife returned to her job managing the studio/office at the jingle house. I got a lucky break through my connections and started working for Howard Shore. I soon wound up assisting Howard with orchestrating the Lord of the Rings films and coordinating music prep. After that, we had enough money saved to take Mike Post's advice and move to LA.

As Mike predicted, we sat in LA for about a year with almost no work, pounding the pavement hard and burning through our savings. Remember, I had just come off two years working in NYC and London on the LOTR films.

We had some near misses on some good projects and passed on others because the deals were bad. When the working started coming it wasn't composing work, it music preparation. We both wound up freelancing at a music copying house whose clients were mainly live TV. They landed Dancing With the Stars shortly thereafter. Because of my background, I started arranging for the show when the two arrangers couldn't do all the work themselves.

10+ years later, my wife and I pretty much run the music prep projects that the company gets and do other projects of our own. The company's projects are mainly in the live TV area with a smattering of films, concerts, record dates and the like. We've also managed the music prep and I've orchestrated for the Oscars and the Emmys for the last few years.

About ten years ago I also answered an ad for a music supervisor at Disney. It was bit out of curiosity because of the weird job description. It turned out the division didn't need a music supervisor but a music transcriber. I did everything that is supposed to be wrong in an interview. Because I didn't care that much, I honestly but courteously told the VP of the division that the job description was wrong and explained to her what kind of person and with what qualifications they really needed to hire. I also told her that the only reason I applied was because the job description seemed odd and I was curious to see what the job really was. They ended up hiring nobody and a few months later contacted me to do exactly the job I described as an outside contractor. A big chunk of my work has been transcribing and creating vocal arrangements for Disney for over ten years now.

Nobody's stories are the same, and mine has a good bit of luck involved. Perhaps it will at least give you a window into the unexpected turns the industry can take. If nothing else, understand that it probably won't all happen at once. You do need money along the way. There's no shame in doing what you need to make a living. You may have to do many different things to survive in this business. Don't be afraid to embrace the fact that the path you think you are on may actually lead somewhere a bit different from your expectations.


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## storyteller (Nov 15, 2016)

I am sure I am not alone in adding that much of that initial work involves heartbreak and ego-smashing punches to the gut. My first "homerun" was the one no one saw, and I never saw any money or return on it. Through a live sound/monitor engineering job that paid very little during my senior year in college, I managed to get to know a small list of Billboard #1 artists and their production teams. Personality goes a long way.... as does making sure you hold to your morals in the face of a world that tries to cut them down.

At the time I wanted to be a producer/arranger, which of course meant working on my own dime. I produced numerous tracks for these artists and received 2am calls to drive an hour and a half to their homes and record them in their home studios during their moments of inspiration. After college, this meant driving another hour+ back without any sleep to show up for my "regular" job that paid the bills.

Inevitably - and certainly I am not alone in this - the "artist and team" (who was my primary focus) disappeared to NYC for a couple of weeks and returned only to tell you they have recorded their second album with Timbaland. Heartbreak is the only way I can describe that moment. When I asked what their first single was going to be, I was told, "The one that sounds like yours!" Of course it did. It was mine. Just "re-recorded" by Timbaland. Ergo #1 Billboard hit and the biggest hit of the artist's career for another 6 years. I never saw a dime. Crushed, I quit music and decided to devote my time to my fiance, who eventually became my wife.

The music bug bit again. During our first year of marriage, a struggling artist showed up at my doorstep and needed a song recorded and produced to take to Nashville. He was about to take this 12 hour drive the following day. I recorded him for free and decided to fully produce the track without any sleep that night. That became his "pitch song" which landed him his song writing deal and his eventual 5 album deal with MCA. But before he landed his deal, I tried to sign him and quickly moved to Nashville with my wife to produce his music. I bartered that he would record the vocals for a handful of songs I had written.

A year and a half later, he still had not recorded my songs but I had given him every ounce of my free time for his recordings. My wife was initially excited and pushed me in all of this new effort to give it my best, but then became unhappy with it and I quit music for the second time to focus on marriage. This artist signed his major deal shortly after due largely to our recordings. He has had numerous chart topping hits thus far. He still has several albums to go on his contract. Act 2, and I never saw a dime.

A divorce took me to Act 3 of my music story. The emotional rollercoaster that ensued brought out the songwriter in me again. I wrote numerous songs - one specifically for my daughter. It turns out, I wrote those songs for an audience of One. I never marketed them. Instead, for the first time I felt complete because I had managed to accurately capture all that I needed to express from inside. The one song that I wrote and recorded for my daughter using every top musician in Nashville turned out more beautiful than I could have hoped for, so I figured this must be what it is all about and thus diverted my attention from chasing the music dream to attempting to build a financial platform in my professional career (Hey @whinecellar - I used your drummer in your video btw as well as Paul Franklin, Brent Mason, etc  ). But the crazy thing about music when it is part of your soul... it has a way of never letting go.

Act 4 took me back to my Love. I originally went to college for filmscores and orchestration, but I was seduced away by top-40 artists due to that live sound job. But Act 4 began by doing compositions for the numerous consulting projects I was a part of during my professional career (e.g. Programming iPhone Apps, producing marketing videos, helping new healthcare & technology startups launch, etc.). It wasn't a focus as much as a tool in the toolbelt to help bring ideas into an end product. But still, it wasn't the primary focus. Eventually, I again took a stroll away from music (and life) during a sabbatical to figure out what truly brought joy into my life

Every great screenplay has 5 acts, so here is to hoping for the grand payoff. I returned from my sabbatical and discovered only writing and music remained. That is what truly brings me joy. So, Act 5 begins with a complete focus on bringing these gifts into the world without distraction. I gave up everything I once knew, any stability I once had, in an effort to be joyful. And hopefully, the joy will bubble forth unto others one day. I write for an audience of One, and that makes all of the difference. It doesn't make any financial sense, but it makes all of the difference to me anyway. My resume is complete with #1 hits and multiple #1 artists, and I have never seen a dime, but it at least gives me the confidence to know the music within me is well received in the world. I consider that all I need in the days ahead is _*a chance*_, and someday, I will be blessed to receive that gift. Maybe even by someone on here. Hopefully in the filmscore world this time around 

So here's to Act 5 - the act for the DREAMERS, the STORYTELLERS, the ONES THAT DARE TO IMAGINE A WORLD BEYOND THE STATUS QUO. Onward and upward.

*TLDR; Write for an audience of One and the rest of life will not seem so hard.*


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## storyteller (Nov 15, 2016)

Also, by the looks of it, this thread should be more appropriately re-titled to *"Confessions of the Real Lives of Film Score Composers"*. Ha!


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## WindcryMusic (Nov 15, 2016)

storyteller said:


> (Hey @WindcryMusic - I used your drummer in your video btw as well as Paul Franklin, Brent Mason, etc  )



Can you clarify? My guess is that you meant to refer to someone else here, as I can't think of any drummer in any video of mine.


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## storyteller (Nov 15, 2016)

WindcryMusic said:


> Can you clarify? My guess is that you meant to refer to someone else here, as I can't think of any drummer in any video of mine.


Whoops. Whineceller... ha. I typed Win and tapped the wrong one (since I misspelled his name....)


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## Richard Wilkinson (Nov 15, 2016)

Thanks JJP and Storyteller for sharing your stories. Nicely written too. Shows that this gig certainly isn't easy, but then nobody does music for a living because it's easy!


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## jononotbono (Jan 10, 2017)

JJP said:


> In case it helps, here's my story....
> 
> After getting a BA in music performance, I spent my first year outside Chicago where I split my time between three exhausting part-time jobs:
> - working construction with my father's ironworking company (I learned that good crane operators are worth their weight in gold, and that it can be fun setting steel girders when the weather is nice - not so much when it's below freezing and windy.)
> ...



Wow. What a wicked story. Thanks for sharing it!


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## mwarsell (Jan 21, 2017)

Storyteller, omg...you got conned twice like that? Huh.


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## SillyMidOn (Jan 21, 2017)

Jack Weaver said:


> Thelonious Monk drove a cab.
> 
> .


I didn't know that about "Melodious Thunk". Was it Red Garland or Wynton Kelly who had to become an Avon rep? Someone please help me out on that/confirm, please. 'Twas towards the end of the 60s when jazz had gone electronic...


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## SillyMidOn (Jan 21, 2017)

nick7er said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm in a bit of a conundrum. My plan was, because from what I've heard there's no better place to get film work and network than Los Angeles, to move to the city with a part-time job to support myself until I could rely on my music income to do so. I was naive to adopt this plan. My part-time job (as a tutor) has quickly fallen away and I'm left without an income. Meanwhile I'm burning through my savings living in LA. I have no disillusions that my music, while some have told me is "good writing," needs a LOT of work in the production quality department. Mostly I need to learn how to mix and how to incorporate electronic elements into my work, and how to add more expression to my samples, and possibly buy more samples. Anyway, enough with the specifics of my situation - what I'm saying is I'd love to hear what kinds of jobs others on this forum have used to support themselves and their home studios (which cost money to maintain) while getting a foothold in this business. If your advice is to not move to LA until you're already rolling and have gained somewhat of a reputation in this business, than where are some alternative places to live that are cheaper but still have reasonable film scenes? I desperately don't want to move back home and live with my parents. I've just graduated from college (University of Pennsylvania) but with a kind-of useless Music BA. Then there's the grad-school question - my parents have offered some support for me if I were to pursue it but from everything I've heard it's kind of a gamble in itself?
> 
> I know I'm asking a lot here but really if you're gaining a fairly reliable source of income from your film music I'd love to know how you got to that point. Thanks, and I look forward to getting better acquainted with you all!


I have:
Played at weddings, birthdays, bar-mitzvahs, shop openings etc..., so function bands
Been an accompanist at grade exams (no fun)
Taught piano and saxophone
Lectured at degree level
Done sheet music engraving for publishers
Done sheet music arrangements for publishers for all kinds of instruments and ensembles
Done sheet music transcriptions for publishers
Played jazz (wait, that doesn't count, as it made me practically no money... hahaha...)
Some other stuff that my brain has thankfully decided to shove into a far flung recess, and I therefore cannot remember

I was asked once to be the piano accompanist for a girl's ballet class, but I turned that one down...


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## Daniel Petras (Jan 21, 2017)

You have a BA in music - teach private music lessons. There are always parents who want their kids to take lessons, so the jobs will never run out. Teaching private lessons is good because it's not a full time job, but usually pays way above minimum wage. So you still have hours of your day that you can allot to working on music.


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## storyteller (Jan 21, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Storyteller, omg...you got conned twice like that? Huh.


I suppose that is a way to look at it. I just see it as the world having two types of people - those who are service-to-others and those that are service-to-self. I enjoy helping others as often as I can, yet the majority of people are only out for themselves. I was just much more naive to it earlier in my life. C'est la vie. Learning steps on the journey. Older, wiser, and joyful today because of it.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 21, 2017)

"How do you support yourself starting out?"

Uh...you don't?

Bad joke. I was extremely lucky to fall in love with a person who completely backed my musical aspirations, from every perspective. My s.o. has pitched in literally tens of thousands of dollars for CD releases, my musical education, instruments (both virtual and not), singers, etc. Everything. And continues to be supportive. I also have a very well off Uncle who does the same.

For my next album I've had $2,100 total invested in by fans of the first one (I have no idea why, as mentioned earlier and repeatedly the album and *I* *suck*! lol).

There's not a day that goes by when I don't feel gratitude to those people. They basically helped me live my dream.

I want everyone here to do the same, to live your dreams.


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## mwarsell (Feb 12, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> "How do you support yourself starting out?"
> 
> Uh...you don't?
> 
> ...



Whaaat? S.o. doing everything, incl. financing, your music AND you happen to have a very wealthy uncle who does the same? 

Huh. Nice.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 12, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Whaaat? S.o. doing everything, incl. financing, your music AND you happen to have a very wealthy uncle who does the same?
> 
> Huh. Nice.



Lucky. Too bad my music kinda sucks.


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## thov72 (Feb 12, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Lucky. Too bad my music kinda sucks.


I hope you don´t mind me asking..just out of curiosity...
would you be so kind as to post a link? Thankyou, mein Herr.


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## jononotbono (Feb 12, 2017)

thov72 said:


> I hope you don´t mind me asking..just out of curiosity...
> would you be so kind as to post a link? Thankyou, mein Herr.



Yeah I would love to hear some as well! Can't suck that bad if fans are actually paying money!!! Go on, give us a link!


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 12, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Yeah I would love to hear some as well! Can't suck that bad if fans are actually paying money!!! Go on, give us a link!



That's super nice of you folks and accept my gratitude for your openness. I must respectfully refuse...I'm sure you can understand not being entirely happy with something you've written, thus being entirely uncomfortable with sharing.

Let me put it this way: you're not missing anything.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 12, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Yeah I would love to hear some as well! Can't suck that bad if fans are actually paying money!!! Go on, give us a link!



But you and I both know that doesn't mean something sucks or not. Look at Bieber.


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## jononotbono (Feb 12, 2017)

Oh that's a shame. Someone's music does the real talking. How do I become a "fan" if I don't know where to look? 

Come on, you're not scared are you? Haha!


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 12, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Oh that's a shame. Someone's music does the real talking. How do I become a "fan" if I don't know where to look?
> 
> Come on, you're not scared are you? Haha!



 More like_* extreme*_ self-criticism.

And again, thanks for being nice about it,* jononotbono*.


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## Smikes77 (Feb 12, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> But you and I both know that doesn't mean something sucks or not. Look at Bieber.



What`s wrong with Bieber?


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 12, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> What`s wrong with Bieber?



I'm jealous of his hair.


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## Smikes77 (Feb 12, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I'm jealous of his hair.



Damn. You almost replied to that before I posted it. That`s jedi stuff right there.

Are YOU Bieber?


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## robharvey (Feb 12, 2017)

It was teaching for me. I play guitar so I built up a roster of students before making the decision to become a composer.


Edit:

Just had a skim over the posts:

You might consider living somewhere a bit cheaper if it were an option for you.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 12, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> Damn. You almost replied to that before I posted it. That`s jedi stuff right there.
> 
> Are YOU Bieber?



(defensively)...so what if I am? huh? huh?


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## Smikes77 (Feb 12, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> (defensively)...so what if I am? huh? huh?



I'm calling bs.

You`re not Bieber.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 12, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> I'm calling bs.
> 
> You`re not Bieber.



Arrrgh! But was there even a second...a millisecond...oh please tell me there was! I *live *to have people believe I'm Justin Bieber!


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## Smikes77 (Feb 12, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Arrrgh! But was there even a second...a millisecond...oh please tell me there was! I *live *to have people believe I'm Justin Bieber!



Ok, yes. there was about 2 seconds where you had me.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 12, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> Ok, yes. there was about 2 seconds where you had me.



Do you really mean it? I was on the edge of my seat waiting for an answer. Oh please please, *BELIEVE IN THE BIEB!*


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 12, 2017)

Oh btw great to hear from you *Smikes77 *and hope you're having a wonderful weekend


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## InLight-Tone (Feb 12, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> But you and I both know that doesn't mean something sucks or not. Look at Bieber.


Bieb has some catchy tunes come on. Crafting a well written pop song is not as easy as you think...


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 12, 2017)

InLight-Tone said:


> Bieb has some catchy tunes come on. Crafting a well written pop song is not as easy as you think...



I was kidding. Fun is fun, and ain't nothin' wrong with what you or I like, right? Shoot, I have great fun listening to Cannibal Corpse and AC/DC.

A lot of Pop music sounds the same to me today (same for trailers), but music is there for everyone. I am totally against telling people what to like, that's entirely up to the individual.


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## InLight-Tone (Feb 12, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> More like_* extreme*_ self-criticism.
> 
> And again, thanks for being nice about it,* jononotbono*.


"When all else fails, allow yourself to suck
That's right, if you can't seem to get anything good out of yourself, enjoy the process of sucking. See
how bad you can make something. Do all the wrong things and enjoy it. Laugh with your inner critic
because you can both agree "Yes, this is really embarrassing". Keep going, make it worse! Embrace
the suck in you. It's liberating!
Eventually, you will find yourself enjoying the process and having a laugh. You may even find that you
hit a roadblock in your suckiness, and simply can't come up with a way to suck any worse. You might
even accidentally do something that sounds good. As you go through this process, you will find that
you are in one of the best mental states for being creative, and as you are riding that wave you may
even have the drive to open up one of those unfinished songs and push it a little further."


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## jononotbono (Feb 12, 2017)

InLight-Tone said:


> "When all else fails, allow yourself to suck
> That's right, if you can't seem to get anything good out of yourself, enjoy the process of sucking. See
> how bad you can make something. Do all the wrong things and enjoy it. Laugh with your inner critic
> because you can both agree "Yes, this is really embarrassing". Keep going, make it worse! Embrace
> ...



Who is that a quote of? Please excuse my ignorance.


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## Smikes77 (Feb 12, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Oh btw great to hear from you *Smikes77 *and hope you're having a wonderful weekend



My weekend was going really well until the 75th minute of the Wales v England game yesterday...but thank you.


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## InLight-Tone (Feb 12, 2017)

It's from a book called "Music Habits, The Mental Game of Electronic Music Production" by Jason Timothy. It's all about procrastination, perfectionism, over-studying and all that sort of stuff. Like "The War of Art" applied to music production. I suffered in the worst way never completing ANYTHING wanting to be "perfect" or waiting for "inspiration", bad habits...


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## dpasdernick (Feb 12, 2017)

How do you make a million dollars in the music industry? Invest 2 million.


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## jononotbono (Feb 12, 2017)

InLight-Tone said:


> It's from a book called "Music Habits, The Mental Game of Electronic Music Production" by Jason Timothy. It's all about procrastination, perfectionism, over-studying and all that sort of stuff. Like "The War of Art" applied to music production. I suffered in the worst way never completing ANYTHING wanting to be "perfect" or waiting for "inspiration", bad habits...



Ahh I see.

Well, if you can't actually laugh at yourself then you're never going to get anywhere in music. Also overthinking everything is another massive problem. The sooner you stop thinking and just get on with it, music becomes fun. I stopped overthinking stuff a while ago. I actually love writing to deadlines. It's a massive difference to just writing for the love of it! I've just been asked to deliver an Album for a Library and have a deadline. Instantly I have found the love for my Guitar again and writing all sorts of stuff just because it has to be done and I have a deadline. I think the deadline makes your brain throw away all of the BS and you make creative decisions that you perhaps wouldn't have made or would spent an age trying to get to. Perfectionism is a royal pain in the ass and I have dealt with it for a long time (in Psychology it's called having a "be perfect driver"). Learning how to finish something is a skill. So is derailing a thread! Sorry


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## mc_deli (Feb 12, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Ahh I see.
> 
> Well, if you can't actually laugh at yourself then you're never going to get anywhere in music. Also overthinking everything is another massive problem. The sooner you stop thinking and just get on with it, music becomes fun. I stopped overthinking stuff a while ago. I actually love writing to deadlines. It's a massive difference to just writing for the love of it! I've just been asked to deliver an Album for a Library and have a deadline. Instantly I have found the love for my Guitar again and writing all sorts of stuff just because it has to be done and I have a deadline. I think the deadline makes your brain throw away all of the BS and you make creative decisions that you perhaps wouldn't have or would spent an age trying to get to. Perfectionism is a royal pain in the ass and I have dealt with it for a long time (in Psychology it's called having a "be perfect driver"). Learning how to finish something is a skill. So is derailing a thread! Sorry


No, it's not derailing, it's right on the money. I only "support" myself because I have a huge perfectionist overthinking chip with music that breeds procrastination. And I have found an avenue for "support" where I get paid to nit pick.


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## ghostnote (Feb 12, 2017)

And again talking about perfectionism. The very definition of being an artist is being a unique character. Uniqueness is a result of a complex mixture of good and bad attributes, also habits. Find out your strenghts and weakneses and compensate if needed. Try constantly to step out of your comfort zone, because that's the way to improvement and developement of your musical voice.


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## jononotbono (Feb 12, 2017)

ghostnote said:


> Try constantly to step out of your comfort zone, because that's the way to improvement and developement of your musical voice.



I completely agree with this. It's exactly why I started studying an MA in Professional Media Composition which has already led to me down many different paths to just being in a band. I'm hoping to do another MA this December in Orchestration of which I will truly be out of my depth but I think it will be a good way to learn a hell of a lot at a rate of knots.


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## GtrString (Feb 13, 2017)

The number of people having a reliable income from film music is pretty small, world wide, so the question should probably be more how do you support yourself as a film composer period.

There are no templates nor formulas to this, just personal choices of strategies and tactics, which is highly dependent of who you are and your actual talent. You need to consider what you are like as a person, and how you manage in big city environments. Its not for all (more like, very few).

An alternative strategy to moving to the big 4, where the competition is fierce, could be to find a cheaper town where the film crowds meet regularly from time to time, and get ahead on building a studio, nurture your talents and network from the ground level. 

Like where some big festivals are held (Sundance anyone?), or citys where the next generation of film makers gets their education, like Boston, Austin, Colorado, Florida State ect.

I live in small town Denmark across the globe from the US, and I can stumble into people who work at Disney, CA in the local supermarket (because they occasionally teach at the local animation school). So place in this day and age doesn't stand in the way for real talent for sure.


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