# Eating my words - Spitfire.



## Daniel James (May 15, 2019)

Hey All,

As most of you know I had a bit of a thing with Spitfire over the past year or so. But since then I have picked up LCO Evo, Olafur Evo, Olafur Chamber Evo, British Toolkit and am currently sizing up Chamber Strings.

As I am sure you are aware it is often tough to eat your own words so publicly, but given the quality of the libraries I have recently got from them (mostly on decent sales!) and the sheer amount of work the libs are putting in for me currently I thought I would be fair and give credit where its due. These are fucking fantastic!!

Genuinely looking forward to whatever is next.

-DJ


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## ridgero (May 15, 2019)

Besides the exceptional sound quality, I really really love the walkthroughs and contextual videos from Homay, Oliver, Paul and Christian. They bring every single sample to life and you can actually see and feel their passion for their own libraries.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 15, 2019)

I took the plunge and bought my first SF libraries during the latest sale, can't get over how wonderful they sound. Plus, the installation process went smoothly. Will definitely be picking up some more stuff next time around.


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## jononotbono (May 15, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> am currently sizing up Chamber Strings



Easily my favourite String library so far.


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## StillLife (May 15, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> Hey All,
> 
> As most of you know I had a bit of a thing with Spitfire over the past year or so. But since then I have picked up LCO Evo, Olafur Evo, Olafur Chamber Evo, British Toolkit and am currently sizing up Chamber Strings.
> 
> ...


Great post, on multiple levels.


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## Kurosawa (May 15, 2019)

Thank you Daniel for sharing these kind words!


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## Zee (May 15, 2019)

A video about it why they're good would be a good idea


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## Soundhound (May 15, 2019)

F*cking classy, mate. Bravo. 




Daniel James said:


> Hey All,
> 
> As most of you know I had a bit of a thing with Spitfire over the past year or so. But since then I have picked up LCO Evo, Olafur Evo, Olafur Chamber Evo, British Toolkit and am currently sizing up Chamber Strings.
> 
> ...


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## Denkii (May 15, 2019)

Boss move.
Approved.


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## markleake (May 15, 2019)

SF have always been a fantastic developer.

Good on you Daniel for saying this.

I'm just surprised you don't have SCS already! What?!


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## J-M (May 15, 2019)

Daniel doesn't have Chamber Strings? Even I have them, the world is a funny place...That being said, with this post of yours my respect for you just went up another notch!


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## ism (May 15, 2019)

markleake said:


> I'm just surprised you don't have SCS already! What?!




Really you don't remember that incredible loud, bombastic, epic piece where Daniel used the SCS flautandos to ... no wait ... 




(Though seriously, all respect to Daniel's non epic range, just that that I'm not shock that he doesn't own a library so renowned for its softness and subtly).


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## SoNowWhat? (May 15, 2019)

I have many SF libraries and it all started with Albion One. Every single one of them is awesome but, I don’t have everything they’ve made. Mostly because I don’t need it. I’m much more selective now that I have everything covered but I don’t think it’d be an understatement to say they are the foundation of my Orchestral samples. 

Props to you Daniel, and I agree with your assessment of those libraries. I’m still waiting to get OA Chamber Evos; not because I have doubts, just budget. Have been upgrading hardware recently.


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## robgb (May 15, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> Hey All,
> 
> As most of you know I had a bit of a thing with Spitfire over the past year or so. But since then I have picked up LCO Evo, Olafur Evo, Olafur Chamber Evo, British Toolkit and am currently sizing up Chamber Strings.
> Genuinely looking forward to whatever is next.
> ...


Pick up Studio Strings. I've been a bit down on Spitfire myself, but this library is the shit.


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## charlieclouser (May 15, 2019)

Just based on the Evo / Tundra / Olafur stuff I'd put Spitfire at the tippy-top of the pile. As evidenced by Heavyocity's Novo Intimate / Rhythmic Textures, and other developers jumping in with their own attempts at evolving-texture-style stuff, the concepts that Spitfire innovated are uniquely useful and new. 

There's a thousand developers battling over who's got the tightest spiccatos with the most round-robins, or who's got the best tempo-detecting legato, or yadda yadda yadda ad infinitum. I've bought 'em all and I still layer in those ancient Sonic Implants spiccatos because I like the way they bite. So two decades of "improvement" have resulted in incremental gains but few revolutionary sounds.

But when the Evo stuff came out I was like, "Now THAT'S something I haven't heard before!" and I get massive use out of them. So I'm definitely Team Spitfire all the way.


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## robgb (May 15, 2019)

charlieclouser said:


> Sonic Implants spiccatos because I like the way they bite.


Yep.


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## DerGeist (May 15, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> Hey All,
> 
> As most of you know I had a bit of a thing with Spitfire over the past year or so. But since then I have picked up LCO Evo, Olafur Evo, Olafur Chamber Evo, British Toolkit and am currently sizing up Chamber Strings.
> 
> ...


LCO in particular is great. I think spitfire is weirder than they commonly get credit for (compliment). My favorite libraries are things like BHCT (new with this sale), alternative strings, LCO, and sound dust. Not that their more traditional fare isn't great but they seem to really do great work in the corners.


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## CT (May 15, 2019)

I've been falling back in love with LCO Strings recently. Not that I ever really fell *out* of love... it's definitely weird in the best sense of the word.


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## The Darris (May 15, 2019)

Definitely agree with you on those libraries you've recently bought. I've been an owner of the original Sable since day 1 and will forever promote how great that library, now Chamber Strings, is. With that said, I think a lot of your previous criticisms are still relevant. The quality in their products has been hit or miss lately. The Studio Series being one that, in my own opinion, has fallen short of the quality found in the EVO series as well as Chamber Strings. Despite my gripes about that, I will echo @charlieclouser in saying that the EVO series by and large was a game changer for the industry. It's certainly worth the hyperbole. Hell, I remember the original "Scary Strings" freebie which was released a month or so before the first EVO grid and that blew me away. 

I know people like to hate on whoever is doing the next best thing but you really have to hand it to a company that can be a trend setter.


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## prodigalson (May 15, 2019)

A colleague today said to me “I just picked up Spitfire Symphonic Strings, they’re great. Do u know Spitfire?”. 

I responded with 50% shame and 50% pride, “I own almost everything they’ve released”. 

I’m not exactly a fan boy by any means but it means something when I’ve used something from almost all those libraries on recent projects. Very few are gathering dust and that’s more than I can say for some developers.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 15, 2019)

prodigalson said:


> I responded with 50% shame and 50% pride, “I own almost everything they’ve released”.



Honestly they have some great stuff, but it's much better suited to certain mindsets of composers. Those who just want to use nice sounding samples to create something have a sea of interesting content to choose from with SFA. Realism however is kind of hit or miss, and you end up having to work against the library rather than with it - and that's the part that made me grow away from them. 

that said, DJ mostly seems to be known/has strength in the no-rules hybrid type, so It's only natural that he'd find use for many SFA libraries. 

things like UIST, tundra, inceni - scream DJ. He might be bitter about HZS still, but honestly he might grow to love the library, even if it's not "captain jack sparrows dick" it's got thick warm strings.*(phrasing?) I'd imagine hzs would be best used for larger than life/softer/inspirational tracks. 

That said, SCS is still the single best library they've ever created - despite having many interesting releases and a few unexpected successes(BHT success was a total surprise)


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## constaneum (May 15, 2019)

i'm not a fan of the studio series but their symphony series. I like the hall even though lots of ppl highlighted on the wetness concern. But to me, that's the nature sound of the hall and it's beautiful. Too bad i've owned brands here and there. But if i'm a new comer and wanna start with a good orchestral library, i'll grab the symphony series for a start. It's marvelous.


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## asherpope (May 15, 2019)

...so when is this forum being renamed? 'Spitfire Control'?


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## dogdad (May 15, 2019)

Spitfire is hands down my favorite developer. They just resonate with what I like to hear and how I like to work. 

To be honest we are so fortunate to have so many amazing developers. We really are living in a time of riches.

That being said, Chamber String is a 100% must have. Even if you don’t like other Spitfire products, I still think one would like this. It’s so damn versatile! I have and recommend the pro version for the extra mics. You can also wait till the next wish list sale to pick it up. You won’t regret it. I think it’s one of the libraries that’ll end up being timeless. People will be using it long after the technology has moved on, just for the sound alone.


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## stfciu (May 15, 2019)

asherpope said:


> ...so when is this forum being renamed? 'Spitfire Control'?



We can ask Mike to state a general rule in the forum guide that from now on if anyone uses the word on S...... gets a ban forever  just for precaution.

I think SA is presently experiencing so called "scale effect" and it is natural what is happening recently with all the judgement and anticipation especially when the company evolves like this. I began to see some unnecessary and pointless reactions here and there coming from SA and Daniel is one proof. I am wondering how will they get through with it in the end.

EDIT: to be clear however I love all the libraries I have from SA, especially BHCT and Tundra which imo are the best in its concept and tonal range


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## constaneum (May 16, 2019)

Actually, i have to say Spitfire in general excels in capturing the sound. They are definitely one of the AAA list sample library makers as of to date. Their scripting on the other hand may not have the consistencies applied but they're constantly improving themselves. From normal legato to performance legato and Total Performance Legato Patches which they've released for their products as updates over the years, I can say they're constantly improving their products. 

Sound wise, you definitely can't go wrong with Spitfire Audio.


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## AdamKmusic (May 16, 2019)

The thing that attracts me to Spitfire, apart from the amazing libraries obviously is that they don't come across/aren't a corporate stale company. With the way Christian and sometimes Paul interacts with their community really sort of invites you & makes you feel part of something so to speak.


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## jaketanner (May 16, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> Hey All,
> 
> As most of you know I had a bit of a thing with Spitfire over the past year or so. But since then I have picked up LCO Evo, Olafur Evo, Olafur Chamber Evo, British Toolkit and am currently sizing up Chamber Strings.
> 
> ...



How has it taken you THIS long to realize Chamber Strings is great! LOL.


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## jaketanner (May 16, 2019)

constaneum said:


> that's the nature sound of the hall and it's beautiful



I've recently been watching a video Christian did about being a Fly On The Wall...it's an actual tracking session for a TV series he's composing for...done in Air Studios...when you hear the conductor speak, you can clearly hear how reverberant the room is...it's what makes the sound. Especially for some wind instruments...like the Oboe. If you put an oboe in a tight small room, or very open space, it's going to sound like crap...certain instruments need the acoustics and vibrations of the environment to truly "sing".


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## Parsifal666 (May 16, 2019)

I seriously doubt anyone here begrudges you, Daniel. I might be outrageously presumptuous, but I take it on faith that the majority here just want to learn how to best enjoy our libraries and perhaps explore new ones (and even learn a thing or ten). Or at least a great many are.

I could be wrong lol.


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## Monkberry (May 16, 2019)

All in all, with the amount of great content Spitfire is putting out and the various detailed walkthroughs, they have absolutely won me over as a fan. I come from the old days of using an Akai S3000 XL and a Glyph SCSI drive for sample libraries and believe me, orchestral libraries were laughable back in those days. I'm thrilled at the progress they are making.


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## Parsifal666 (May 16, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> things like UIST, tundra, inceni - scream DJ. He might be bitter about HZS still, but honestly he might grow to love the library, even if it's not "captain jack sparrows dick" it's got thick warm strings.*(phrasing?) I'd imagine hzs would be best used for larger than life/softer/inspirational tracks.
> 
> That said, SCS is still the single best library they've ever created - despite having many interesting releases and a few unexpected successes(BHT success was a total surprise)



I honestly think anything marketed as "captain jack sparrows dick" would be a grave mark against buying it. I can't be alone here, can I? lol

How was BHCT a total surprise? It's one of their most inspired, imaginative, and best efforts. Even better, it matches up with the Studio series like butter on toast, at least in my experience.


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## ism (May 16, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> I honestly think anything marketed as "captain jack sparrows dick" would be a grave mark against buying it. I can't be alone here, can I? lol



I think there was a significant body of opinion, not sure if it was a majority or just a vocal minority, who very precisely wanted exactly this.

In any event, that controversy is happily behind us, lots of people are finding amazing things to do with HZS, and we know that more content has been recorded for HZS. Whether it turns out to be "extra super really really gentle" sul tasto or additional "pirate member" staccatos very much remains to be seen.

Either would be cool.


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## jbuhler (May 16, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> How was BHCT a total surprise? It's one of their most inspired, imaginative, and best efforts. Even better, it matches up with the Studio series like butter on toast, at least in my experience.


This is good to know—I'm surprised SF hasn't talked more about this combination—and will perhaps be the final incentive to get BHCT, which has long been on my wish list.


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## Parsifal666 (May 16, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> This is good to know—I'm surprised SF hasn't talked more about this combination—and will perhaps be the final incentive to get BHCT, which has long been on my wish list.


I went mad with that library... I had to buy as much of Bernard's discography as possible and the movies with 5.1. Bernard is one of the greatest composers of the past century along with heavies like Goldsmith, Williams, and Morricone. That library was as much an education in writing with one man's wildly distinctive orchestral combinations as well as a fine dry library in and of itself, outside of anything niche one might prematurely deduce it to be. And oh yeah you get all the mics in one package, folks! I had a sickeningly unhealthy and obsessive relationship with the Sul tasto patch, the harp and Celeste combination, horn-timpani....


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## Michael Stibor (May 16, 2019)

Spitfire produces great stuff if you create 'epic' music. But if you're looking for subtleties, you're barking up the wrong tree.


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## jneebz (May 16, 2019)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Spitfire produces great stuff if you create 'epic' music. But if you're looking for subtleties, you're barking up the wrong tree.


Wait, what? Would love to hear you expand on this notion...seriously curious why you say that.


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## mouse (May 16, 2019)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Spitfire produces great stuff if you create 'epic' music. But if you're looking for subtleties, you're barking up the wrong tree.



Wow lol. Clearly you haven't seen a lot of their libraries


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## DerGeist (May 16, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> I went mad with that library... I had to buy as much of Bernard's discography as possible and the movies with 5.1. Bernard is one of the greatest composers of the past century along with heavies like Goldsmith, Williams, and Morricone. That library was as much an education in writing with one man's wildly distinctive orchestral combinations as well as a fine dry library in and of itself, outside of anything niche one might prematurely deduce it to be. And oh yeah you get all the mics in one package, folks! I had a sickeningly unhealthy and obsessive relationship with the Sul tasto patch, the harp and Celeste combination, horn-timpani....


I was a horn/timpani skeptic until I tried the patch. I think it is their best library. The only patch I haven't bonded with is the Ondes. It is missing some of the controls that I would have hoped for in an Ondes to get Theremin style sounds.


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## ism (May 16, 2019)

mouse said:


> Wow lol. Clearly you haven't seen a lot of their libraries



More likely it's a confusion of terms.

There's a kind of subtlety that you get from VSL's willingness to sample 8 dynamic layers, for instance, which is a kind of subtlety that Spitfire isn't going to give you.

If you're like me and think that subtlety doesn't start until your library offers at least 15 types of sul tasto (20 would be better), well that's a totally different kind of subtlety.


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## markleake (May 16, 2019)

People who download Spitfire libraries in Montreal automatically get the ultra secret "Two Steps From Hell" version of the library, not the standard guff the rest of us get.

I want those versions!!


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## Daniel James (May 16, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> I've recently been watching a video Christian did about being a Fly On The Wall...it's an actual tracking session for a TV series he's composing for...done in Air Studios...when you hear the conductor speak, you can clearly hear how reverberant the room is...it's what makes the sound. Especially for some wind instruments...like the Oboe. If you put an oboe in a tight small room, or very open space, it's going to sound like crap...certain instruments need the acoustics and vibrations of the environment to truly "sing".



Its an amazing room and one of the reasons I am starting to cosy up to the Spitfire sound a little more. Here is a video from the last time I was there, shot from the gallery (so you can see the layout and setup) and you can hear how the strings just fill it!!!

Much like a drug, once you experience it you kind of keep seeking it out.

Unfortunatly I only have this string pad type part shot from up in the gallery, I did give them more fun things to play I promise. I included a link to how it sounded in the mix. (Youtube vid volume is low, soundcloud one is kinda loud. Sorry about that.)




(here is proof I gave them more than pads to play lol. Also you can hear the beautiful tail at the end when they stop playing)



-DJ


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## ism (May 16, 2019)

markleake said:


> People who download Spitfire libraries in Montreal automatically get the ultra secret "Two Steps From Hell" version of the library, not the standard guff the rest of us get.
> 
> I want those versions!!



Things like the "Thumpingly abrasive recorders" patch in Albion two.

Or the rare "Dead screeching Zombi Cat" extended technique for oboe a2 in SSW.

Or the viola "Flautandos of Death" articulation in SCS.

That would actually be pretty cool, now that I think of it.


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## markleake (May 16, 2019)

It's the "trailer legato" and "super duper short staccato" articulations on the flutes a9 patch that I'm desperate for.


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## Michael Stibor (May 16, 2019)

mouse said:


> Wow lol. Clearly you haven't seen a lot of their libraries


Maybe. Or you haven't tried enough of what else is out there.  

Also, my version of subtle might be different than someone else's, so my initial post might be lacking some context.

It's not an insult to Spitfire. Different brands have different strengths.


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## Michael Stibor (May 16, 2019)

ism said:


> More likely it's a confusion of terms.
> 
> There's a kind of subtlety that you get from VSL's willingness to sample 8 dynamic layers, for instance, which is a kind of subtlety that Spitfire isn't going to give you.
> 
> If you're like me and think that subtlety doesn't start until your library offers at least 15 types of sul tasto (20 would be better), well that's a totally different kind of subtlety.



I think that's a fair way of putting it. Though it's not just about dynamic layers. Timbre and flexibility also play a part.
Basically if you're writing trailer music, Spitfire is likely most people's "go-to", but for a more classical approach (or even John Williams) I wouldn't necessarily think Spitfire. That's all.


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## ism (May 16, 2019)

mikefrommontreal said:


> I think that's a fair way of putting it. Though it's not just about dynamic layers. Timbre and flexibility also play a part.
> Basically if you're writing trailer music, Spitfire is likely most people's "go-to", but for a more classical approach (or even John Williams) I wouldn't necessarily think Spitfire. That's all.



Makes sense. So definitely, for a more classical style, VSL, for instance, or Chris Hein, certainly has more attention to deep sampling to get a particular type of, well I've been called it 'expressiveness', but yes there's clearly a dimension of subtly in that.



But as someone who has no interest in trailer music, I also think that libs like SSW, SCS, OACE, LCO, BDT, SStS, SsS, OS ... and I really could go on ... have a quality of subtlety, especially in their timbre and in the overall ... 'sonority' is the best work I've come up with, but it's much more than merely tone ... that collectively represent for me the pinnacle of human achievement in this kind of subtlety, whatever it may be. And that's before we even mention Tundra.


There are definitely times I'd like to be able to access more of the 'classical' type of subtlety though. But I find it hard to get the former type of subtlety without out sacrificing the latter.

So it's the way a Beethoven String quartet has an incredibly quality of subtlety, which is very different to, and sometimes completely at right angles to, the incredible quality of subtlety in, say, an Olafur Arnalds string quartet.


(With the caveat that Sacconi, is one of the most convincing libraries for Beethoven, insofar as its ever a good idea to even think about the possibility of even attempting Beethoven with samples ).


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## Michael Stibor (May 16, 2019)

ism said:


> Makes sense. So definitely, for a more classical style, VSL, for instance, or Chris Hein, certainly has more attention to deep sampling to get a particular type of, well I've been called it 'expressiveness', but yes there's clearly a dimension of subtly in that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly. VSL is a good example. I wouldn't use VSL for epic music either (though I'm sure people do), so it's just a question of using the right tool for the style.

I own every cinematic studio product and anxiously awaiting the release of their woodwind program. A program I have never even heard. So you could call me a cinematic fanboy, but even then there are many times that I'll chose my twelve year old VSL SE over it. All I'm saying is that I don't think anyone can deny that Spitfire's bread and butter is creating epic sounding instruments.


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## ism (May 16, 2019)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Exactly. VSL is a good example. I wouldn't use VSL for epic music either (though I'm sure people do), so it's just a question of using the right tool for the style.
> 
> I own every cinematic studio product and anxiously awaiting the release of their woodwind program. A program I have never even heard. So you could call me a cinematic fanboy, but even then there are many times that I'll chose my twelve year old VSL SE over it. All I'm saying is that I don't think anyone can deny that Spitfire's bread and butter is creating epic sounding instruments.



CSS, to my ears has a different quality of subtlety again. And I'd generally use words like "smooth" and "creamy" to describe it, partly from the 'studio' sound, and partly from the quality of the legato. There's a wonderful CSS mock up of Elgar that to me epitomizes the particular quality of its subtlety and expressiveness of the cinematic line.

But my point was that there's another dimension of subtlety, in the libraries I mentioned above, which is timbral, and expressive has an emotional component that I wouldn't quite know how to describe, that I don't hear in CSS (lovely though it is), and that has absolutely nothing to with the epic that runs through spitfire libraries. 

I mean, some of these libs are probably great for unsubtle epic trailer music also, but I'm not the one to ask about that. Although I know that Daniel rates Albion One (which I regret buying as it tends to be just too thonkingly epic for me, and has no sul tasto) as being quite far on the 'gentle' side of his spectrum. He would probably know.

(Anyone else think that a whole thread on the taxonomy of notions of subtlety might be fun, or is it just me?)


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## jaketanner (May 16, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> here is proof I gave them more than pads to play lol. Also you can hear the beautiful tail at the end when they stop playing



Very cool man...gonna have a listen later tonight. It is a great room, and I know people complain about the ambience, but that's part of the sound...use a different library if you don't want it wet...because the sound you get from that room, can ONLY be gotten in that room.


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## dexterjettser (May 16, 2019)

Chamber strings are the shit. Was able to get them for about half off with this last wishlist sale. I can’t believe I thought I didn’t need them when I already owned symphonic strings


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## jaketanner (May 16, 2019)

dexterjettser said:


> Chamber strings are the shit. Was able to get them for about half off with this last wishlist sale. I can’t believe I thought I didn’t need them when I already owned symphonic strings



I own Chamber, and feel I need Symphonic.. LOL


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## dexterjettser (May 16, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> I own Chamber, and feel I need Symphonic.. LOL


Funny how it works out that way haha. Symphonic is still really great. I used to not like the shorts but it just took some more programming chops to get them speak


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## Michael Stibor (May 16, 2019)

ism said:


> CSS, to my ears has a different quality of subtlety again. And I'd generally use words like "smooth" and "creamy" to describe it, partly from the 'studio' sound, and partly from the quality of the legato. There's a wonderful CSS mock up of Elgar that to me epitomizes the particular quality of its subtlety and expressiveness of the cinematic line.
> 
> But my point was that there's another dimension of subtlety, in the libraries I mentioned above, which is timbral, and expressive has an emotional component that I wouldn't quite know how to describe, that I don't hear in CSS (lovely though it is), and that has absolutely nothing to with the epic that runs through spitfire libraries.
> 
> ...



I understand what you're saying. For me subtlety was more about the detail in the tone of the instrument. As well as the execution of each note. As for Albion One being on the gentle side...yeesh. Me and Daniel James clearly don't write the same type of music, lol.


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## jaketanner (May 16, 2019)

dexterjettser said:


> Funny how it works out that way haha. Symphonic is still really great. I used to not like the shorts but it just took some more programming chops to get them speak



What got me looking at SSS, was that video of Christian...loved that sound.


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## kitekrazy (May 16, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> Hey All,
> 
> As most of you know I had a bit of a thing with Spitfire over the past year or so. But since then I have picked up LCO Evo, Olafur Evo, Olafur Chamber Evo, British Toolkit and am currently sizing up Chamber Strings.
> 
> ...



I only recall your criticism of one library not meeting your expectations and can be interpreted by some as being negative.


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## jononotbono (May 17, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> What got me looking at SSS, was that video of Christian...loved that sound.



SSS is an amazing String library. One of my favourites. It’s a different animal to SCS. Both are in my template. Both I will always use. Buy it. You’ll love it!


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## Alex Fraser (May 17, 2019)

Despite the obvious need to drive a profit, I think that Spitfire are genuine folk who clearly enjoy what they do. And to be fair, you could probably say that of most developers.

As someone who's lived through 90's ADAT, 2mb hardware samplers and the Proteus 2000, I think this modern day stuff delivered through the internet is beyond witchcraft. We're spoilt.


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## ism (May 17, 2019)

So now I want to dive into what this means



mikefrommontreal said:


> detail in the tone of the instrument



But that's perhaps best left to another thread, as I don't think we're in any danger of exhausting the concept of subtlety


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## Ashermusic (May 17, 2019)

This thread gives me an opportunity that I wish to take advantage of.

The only product from Spitfire I own is the London Contemporary Orchestral Strings, which I reviewed (positively) for AksAudio.com. https://www.macprovideo.com/article...ontemporary-orchestra-strings?afid=HT1U3aQxk1

When Logic/VE Pro clients seek my assistance with building templates, frequently they have Spitfire libraries and I always have to give the disclaimer that I don't know them well at all. 

Also, on this forum you see me praising certain developers a lot, others hardly at all or not at all. This could lead people to assume that I don't like what I hear from their libraries or that I dislike them as a company. Both are _not_ true. I think they make terrific libraries and I think that they are good people, based on the limited interaction I have had with them.

So why don't you see me buying or praising their products?
1. They are expensive compared to some of their competition and I already have a ton of orchestral stuff I like.

2. I don't ask to review their stuff because they do such an exceptional job of getting the word out, I don't feel a positive review from me brings enough to the table to ask for an NFR.

3. Their libraries tend to be somewhat wet and although the venue they record in is lovely, because I mix and match a lot, I prefer drier libraries generally.

4. The product line and GUIs are a bit confusing to me, although I know that is an easy adjustment on my part if I spent time with them.

But please know that if I were starting out and did not yet own much I liked and I had the necessary scratch, Spitfire would definitely be a contender for me. Their products sound great, they do great walkthroughs and videos to help, and again, they seem to be very decent people.


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## Michael Stibor (May 17, 2019)

ism said:


> So now I want to dive into what this means
> 
> 
> 
> But that's perhaps best left to another thread, as I don't think we're in any danger of exhausting the concept of subtlety


Start it, I'm in!


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## Michael Stibor (May 17, 2019)

Many here have mention chamber strings. I've heard only good things about it, and it is on my list for libraries to buy this year, as I need something that will between my orchestral strings solo strings.

My only concern is that from the demos I've heard, is that they don't sound very chamber-y, as in they still sound quite large. Is that in fact true, or could it be just from they way they were used in demo?


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## Akarin (May 18, 2019)

I see the question of their pricing mentioned from time to time. I have many Spitfire libs and let's just say that if I didn't try to find better deals over time, I'd have saved money by going full Spitfire in the first place, even if I had not taken their sales deals.


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## Daniel James (May 21, 2019)

Ok I picked up Chamber Strings. You guys were right. Its pretty good XD

-DJ


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## angeruroth (May 21, 2019)

ism said:


> rates Albion One (which I regret buying as it tends to be just too thonkingly epic for me, and has no sul tasto) as being quite far on the 'gentle' side of his spectrum.


Yup, I just got A1 a few days ago and, for all the gods, I'm trying to adapt myself and find the sweet spots of the lib, but damn, only the strings longs give me something subtle (kind of). The brass looks at me like a hungry beast in the middle of a bloody war, he wants to roar and advance, and the Woods... What can I say. I don't understand the way those work. They should support the counterpoint... With subtlety, and I don't know (yet) how to convince them that that's for the best.
Is like the whole lib is pushing me to write about war and death and decapitations... But I just want to write a sad history, and the moment when they find a metaphorical Grail! Everything subtle and texturized until the big discovery. There, at the end, I can allow a bit of soft epicness, but building the rest... I'm starting to think that A1 is just for epic stuff ('cause the shorts and the perc can be awesome immediately), and softer things from that point of view, but not for conveying any sort of intimacy, like silk fainting around the skin, that sort of thing.
I guess I'm still beginning to understand how the orchestral patches work, so maybe I just need more time, but right now I don't really know what to think about it.


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## ism (May 21, 2019)

angeruroth said:


> Yup, I just got A1 a few days ago and, for all the gods, I'm trying to adapt myself and find the sweet spots of the lib, but damn, only the strings longs give me something subtle (kind of). The brass looks at me like a hungry beast in the middle of a bloody war, he wants to roar and advance, and the Woods... What can I say. I don't understand the way those work. They should support the counterpoint... With subtlety, and I don't know (yet) how to convince them that that's for the best.
> Is like the whole lib is pushing me to write about war and death and decapitations... But I just want to write a sad history, and the moment when they find a metaphorical Grail! Everything subtle and texturized until the big discovery. There, at the end, I can allow a bit of soft epicness, but building the rest... I'm starting to think that A1 is just for epic stuff ('cause the shorts and the perc can be awesome immediately), and softer things from that point of view, but not for conveying any sort of intimacy, like silk fainting around the skin, that sort of thing.
> I guess I'm still beginning to understand how the orchestral patches work, so maybe I just need more time, but right now I don't really know what to think about it.



Legacy woodind shorts have a lovely bit of subtlety. Maybe also the dynamics of the mid horns. Some of the strings have nice low dynamics. Also worth digging about in the legacy folder if you're looking for subtlety - but it's probably easier to just pick up Albion II or V, which have subtlety to spare.


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## Ryan99 (May 21, 2019)

Phone ringing... "Hi Daniel, Paul and Christian on the phone. Look mate, we're looking for a spokeperson..."


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## Daniel James (May 21, 2019)

Ryan99 said:


> Phone ringing... "Hi Daniel, Paul and Christian on the phone. Look mate, we're looking for a spokeperson..."



I'm not holding my breath 

-DJ


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## CT (May 21, 2019)

Interesting thoughts about Albion One here. It's something I've pretty much always ignored, since I almost exclusively prefer to work with individual instruments rather than ensembles (apart from Albion V), and in a vernacular that's not particularly "epic."

Recently, I've been wondering if I should grab it, though, for those moments when I *do* want to do something in that hybrid vein (moments which seem to be growing more common). There probably isn't a more obvious all-in-one toolbox for that kind of thing....


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## jneebz (May 21, 2019)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Many here have mention chamber strings. I've heard only good things about it, and it is on my list for libraries to buy this year, as I need something that will between my orchestral strings solo strings.
> 
> My only concern is that from the demos I've heard, is that they don't sound very chamber-y, as in they still sound quite large. Is that in fact true, or could it be just from they way they were used in demo?


They are very epic.


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## X-Bassist (May 21, 2019)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Many here have mention chamber strings. I've heard only good things about it, and it is on my list for libraries to buy this year, as I need something that will between my orchestral strings solo strings.
> 
> My only concern is that from the demos I've heard, is that they don't sound very chamber-y, as in they still sound quite large. Is that in fact true, or could it be just from they way they were used in demo?



Actually they are not epic, but epically good. You can definitely get a good close sound by upping the close mic and backing off a bit on the room. The great thing is it’s one of the few libraries in existence where every mic position sounds good, and this is across many articulations.

In fact you tend to go from a close sound, to wanting to add more room, to wanting the pro version just for the outriggers and stereo mixes. Until you mix an match all the positions to find a great mix you don’t realize the extent to which mics can give you different, yet all useful string tones (the stereo mixes seem to have more definition and clarity to me).

Then the kicker is that all the patches play very evenly and are programmed well. It takes a lot of time and patience to get this right on every sample. It really makes a difference each time you play it. It mixes so well with other libraries too.


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## re-peat (May 22, 2019)

X-Bassist said:


> You can definitely get a good close sound by upping the close mic and backing off a bit on the room.



I don’t know if this is possible in SCS, but in Sable (SCS’s ancestor), I make things a little less Lyndhursty by shortening the decays and the releases. Has to be done carefully though, but makes quite a difference.

Sable doesn’t have SCS’s Ensembles, but you can easily make your own with the added bonus of being able to place the celli and basses a bit further back than the violins and violas, for added dimension in the ensemble.

*http://users.telenet.be/re-peat/Sable_ChamberSpace.mp3 (This)* was done with just two of those ensembles — spicc’s and pizz’s — in a single Kontakt instance. Does sound quite chamber-y, doesn’t it?

_


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## angeruroth (May 22, 2019)

ism said:


> Legacy woodind shorts have a lovely bit of subtlety. Maybe also the dynamics of the mid horns. Some of the strings have nice low dynamics. Also worth digging about in the legacy folder if you're looking for subtlety - but it's probably easier to just pick up Albion II or V, which have subtlety to spare.


Well, Loegria is not in the menu, so I'm layering it with Tundra and BDT, and I think the result will be quite good for the strings.
There is something really appealing about layering those 3 libs and playing with different mic positions to balance the more emotional/warm feeling from A1 with the Tundra calm/openness and the BDT quirkiness.

Brass and woodwinds are not that easy, but I'll check the legacy patches to see if I can find the right combinations. Thanks for the tip! 
Anyway, I guess I'm trying to use A1 for non-predicted uses, so I'm not complaining. Or maybe I've played so much with Tundra that now everything else sounds too strong


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## ism (May 22, 2019)

angeruroth said:


> Well, Loegria is not in the menu, so I'm layering it with Tundra and BDT, and I think the result will be quite good for the strings.
> There is something really appealing about layering those 3 libs and playing with different mic positions to balance the more emotional/warm feeling from A1 with the Tundra calm/openness and the BDT quirkiness.
> 
> Brass and woodwinds are not that easy, but I'll check the legacy patches to see if I can find the right combinations. Thanks for the tip!
> Anyway, I guess I'm trying to use A1 for non-predicted uses, so I'm not complaining. Or maybe I've played so much with Tundra that now everything else sounds too strong



I'd expect a new Loegria to drop any day now. In the mean time OACE is another obvious option for layering.


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## angeruroth (May 22, 2019)

ism said:


> I'd expect a new Loegria to drop any day now. In the mean time OACE is another obvious option for layering.


Hmm, I hope SF waits a few months before releasing the new Loegria...


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## brenneisen (May 22, 2019)

re-peat said:


> *http://users.telenet.be/re-peat/Sable_ChamberSpace.mp3 (This)* was



creamy


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## jimmy3189 (May 25, 2019)

This thread is funny and heartwarming to me, three of the most interesting people to follow on youtube for learning about all this stuff are DJ, Paul & Christian. I basically got into this from being in a band because of watching DJ's videos from his megaman stuff through to now, which led me to discover spitfire and then the rest from there. 

I love reading CC's posts on GS and here too, but those three have probably inspired more people my age or younger to get into this than any others. You'll notice that youtube is fullll of copycats or people going for more theory angles or mixing angles etc. Rick Beato is cool too but i always feel like he's just shouting at me for ignoring my high school music teacher. 

Anyway.

Chamber Strings is great.


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