# Waves Update Plan



## tcollins (May 5, 2021)

Went to reinstall after replacing hard drive, and this will cost me money for an "Update Plan"? Am I missing something?


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## doctoremmet (May 5, 2021)

Nope. Has been like this for years.


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## doctoremmet (May 5, 2021)

Waves Update Plan | Waves


The complete care plan for your Waves products: Get plugin updates, 2nd licenses, VIP tech support, new plugins added to your bundles, exclusive premium content, and a cash-back coupon towards Waves software.




www.waves.com





These are the terms and conditions you agreed with somewhere along the line...


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## rrichard63 (May 5, 2021)

Did you deactivate these plugins before replacing the hard drive? If not, then you might be stuck with the cost of the update plan. I'm not sure how that works. One possibility is that, because your Waves account thinks the plugins are still activated on your old computer, it wants you to buy an update plan because that includes a second license for each plugin you own. If this is the situation, you could always ask Waves support staff to deactivate them after the fact.

Assuming that your plugins are not currently activated on any computer, if they are older than Version 12 you will have to jump through an extra hoop in order to download the old installer. (Waves Central only downloads and creates installers for the current version.) But in this case you only need to buy the update plan if you want to upgrade to Version 12 for other reasons.

Waves license management and the Waves Central software are a complicated and sometimes ornery beast. Many of us think unnecessarily so.


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## tcollins (May 5, 2021)

Thanks for the replies. I upgraded my iMac from Sierra to Mojave and was getting crashes in DP10. Narrowed it down to the Waves plugins. So, I deleted them all, assuming that my "V9" versions were incompatible now. I never ran into this before, probably because everything was on my old hard drive for years and I never had to deal with it. So I paid up for the plugins I use. Now I know.


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## tcollins (May 5, 2021)

Renamed the thread to avoid confusing anyone else.


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## rrichard63 (May 5, 2021)

As a Windows user, I didn't even consider the possibility that your V9 plugins would no longer work after updating your Mac operating system. But it looks like that is what happened. And in that case, yes, Waves makes you pay for the upgrade.


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## blinkofani (May 5, 2021)

tcollins said:


> Thanks for the replies. I upgraded my iMac from Sierra to Mojave and was getting crashes in DP10. Narrowed it down to the Waves plugins. So, I deleted them all, assuming that my "V9" versions were incompatible now. I never ran into this before, probably because everything was on my old hard drive for years and I never had to deal with it. So I paid up for the plugins I use. Now I know.


Deleting your plugins doesn’t remove the licenses from your computer, methinks. Did you just remove the plugins or did you also sent your licenses back to your cloud account?


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## dzilizzi (May 5, 2021)

My first question would be Mac or Windows. Windows would be no problem. Mac OS updates pretty much break Waves every time. 

Before buying a WUP, check for a bundle upgrade. They are usually cheaper. Also, everyplugin.com usually has the deals on Waves. They have a discount code - probably have to Google it or ask support. They will tell you. 

Also, you can put the licences on a USB drive so if you change your drive, it isn't a problem.


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## csound (May 5, 2021)

I got this email earlier today about this being the last day of 25% off upgrade, so if you're going to do it I guess bite the bullet now. Unlike their plugins, they only offer this a few times a year from what I've seen. It's kept me from accumulating more of their plugins, actually. Just checked the website and its still there: WUP


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 5, 2021)

I also had an issue with my Waves plugins not working when I went to Big Sur (was still using Waves Gold Bundle V9 in Catalina). I was then forced to upgrade, but decided to leave Waves in the dust. Fortunately, my few Waves plugins that I bought separately still work (Kramer Master Tape, Puigtec)....but I will not miss the Gold bundle. Such a scam.


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## doctoremmet (May 5, 2021)

csound said:


> I got this email earlier today about this being the last day of 25% off upgrade, so if you're going to do it I guess bite the bullet now. Unlike their plugins, they only offer this a few times a year from what I've seen. It's kept me from accumulating more of their plugins, actually. Just checked the website and its still there: WUP


Sometimes Dontcrack can match or beat these 25% off WUP deals, or so I’ve heard.


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## AudioLoco (May 6, 2021)

I'm just about to install all my plugs on a new computer.

Do I need to deactivate the Waves ones on the old one before I proceed, or can i do it from the Waves site?
(I'm on windows luckily)
Cheers!


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## AudioLoco (May 6, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Waves makes you pay for the upgrade.


Apple makes you pay for the upgrade.

As they render so many programs unusable every time they update their OS so you can have a better shopping experience or see kittens videos faster... that means more work for developers of professional tools...


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## Jimmy Hellfire (May 6, 2021)

When you do a fresh re-install of the Waves Center or whatever it's called, by default it's gonna install the latest versions of the plugins, which is v12 now or someting. You of course won't be able to use those and you'd have to update your upgrade plan.

So what you need to do is to NOT install any plugins, but instead download the offline installer for the older versions of the plugins, like v9 or whatever version you were on. Those are usually still usable. I never once upgraded my "plan" in my whole life and I can still use all my Waves plugins. At some point I'm sure they'll stop supporting the older versions altogether, but for now, I'm still fine.


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## easyrider (May 6, 2021)

I stopped using waves....the WUP is a con....the few I do have are activated to a USB drive to avoid this BS.


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## YaniDee (May 6, 2021)

If you change computers, you should move all your licenses to the "cloud". You can then re-download them to your new location.


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## cmillar (May 6, 2021)

YaniDee said:


> If you change computers, you should move all your licenses to the "cloud". You can then re-download them to your new location.


I guess this would also apply to keeping the Waves licenses on a USB stick?

I've always moved my licenses immediately to a dedicated USB stick which I move from one computer to another. So far so good with my V9 - V11 Waves plugs. 

I'm on Mac's with High Sierra and don't plan on upgrading anything for as long as possible, seeing as everything is working amazingly well anyways.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 6, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Apple makes you pay for the upgrade.
> 
> As they render so many programs unusable every time they update their OS so you can have a better shopping experience or see kittens videos faster... that means more work for developers of professional tools...


No, that's not the case at all. Waves plugins DO work on the latest OS, but they con you into paying for the latest version of their plugins....that have already been paid for (often more than once). It's a total scam. They clearly plan it this way.


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## AudioLoco (May 6, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> No, that's not the case at all. Waves plugins DO work on the latest OS, but they con you into paying for the latest version of their plugins....that have already been paid for (often more than once). It's a total scam. They clearly plan it this way.


It's not a scam. You don't understand how it works.
I have Windows and NEVER EVER had to WUP.


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## dzilizzi (May 6, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> I'm just about to install all my plugs on a new computer.
> 
> Do I need to deactivate the Waves ones on the old one before I proceed, or can i do it from the Waves site?
> (I'm on windows luckily)
> Cheers!


If they are licensed to the machine, you should deactivate them to the cloud before changing machines. If you use the USB key method, you don't have to do anything. 

I do have to say, I don't WUP regularly. I usually upgrade my bundle, because it generally is cheaper. You can go to the Waves site, get the price for the WUP or upgrade, request the code for that "product" and take it to another dealer like Don't Crack or Everyplugin.com where they usually give additional discounts. 

Now, I am at Mercury. There is no bundle upgrades left. I only WUP when there are enough new additions to make it worthwhile. And I WUP everything because Mercury maxes out. That said, my USB drive died with my licenses on it. I emailed Waves to find out my options because I didn't have a current WUP. Since I had never asked for a reset, they gave me one without any problems. They did say, normally I would need to have a current WUP, but they did it anyway. So I am not as negative as some others about this.


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## AudioLoco (May 6, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> If they are licensed to the machine, you should deactivate them to the cloud before changing machines. If you use the USB key method, you don't have to do anything.
> 
> I do have to say, I don't WUP regularly. I usually upgrade my bundle, because it generally is cheaper. You can go to the Waves site, get the price for the WUP or upgrade, request the code for that "product" and take it to another dealer like Don't Crack or Everyplugin.com where they usually give additional discounts.
> 
> Now, I am at Mercury. There is no bundle upgrades left. I only WUP when there are enough new additions to make it worthwhile. And I WUP everything because Mercury maxes out. That said, my USB drive died with my licenses on it. I emailed Waves to find out my options because I didn't have a current WUP. Since I had never asked for a reset, they gave me one without any problems. They did say, normally I would need to have a current WUP, but they did it anyway. So I am not as negative as some others about this.


Thanks dzilizi! Perfect.  I just wasn't 100% sure about this....


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## Soundbed (May 6, 2021)

I’ve never had to WUP Waves anything, ever, across many (Mac) computers. I have several dozen Waves plugins including Platinum, most of the Artist series, some Abbey Road, some of the Analog Classics series, all OneKnob, and more.


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## Nimrod7 (May 6, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> It's not a scam. You don't understand how it works.
> I have Windows and NEVER EVER had to WUP.


Apple improves the OS, introducing security and privacy features, protecting their users.
Big Sur introduced security volumes, became more theral about running kernel level code, and introduced a ton of privacy features in addition.

While you can see it as "Apple breaks everything", you can also see if from a different perspective:
Crappy apps that don't use the sandbox environment properly, and accessing stuff they shouldn't.

And it's far from the truth also that windows don't break things. Even minor windows 10 updates have broken a ton of apps, and there are plenty of articles out there about that.

btw, I am writing this from a Windows 10 machine.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 6, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> It's not a scam. You don't understand how it works.
> I have Windows and NEVER EVER had to WUP.


But if the latest plugins work on my OS, why should I be paying to use them when I’ve already paid twice?


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## AudioLoco (May 6, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> Apple improves the OS, introducing security and privacy features, protecting their users.
> Big Sur introduced security volumes, became more theral about running kernel level code, and introduced a ton of privacy features in addition.
> 
> While you can see it as "Apple breaks everything", you can also see if from a different perspective:
> ...


Do you remember about a year or two ago all the panicked developers urging people not to upgrade to the new system as they needed to update everything in order to make it work? (I don't remember exactly when and what system, I just know people were stuck for a year terrorized of upgrading their MacOS)
Security or privacy, as a professional using the computer to crunch numbers and calculate algos of various plugs and DAWs I couldn't give a rat's behind about those things. (I'm sure you too) 


My main studio computer sits disconnected from the net most of the time and I connect it only for downloads and updates. Again most of these feauters are for occasional users.... (In my opinion)


PS as for Windows breaking things, the worst that happened to me is having to re-authorize a couple of plugins when it did some auto updating, but no on spec updates were ever necessary....


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## AudioLoco (May 6, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> But if the latest plugins work on my OS, why should I be paying to use them when I’ve already paid twice?


If it works you do NOT need to WUP.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 6, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I’ve never had to WUP Waves anything, ever, across many (Mac) computers. I have several dozen Waves plugins including Platinum, most of the Artist series, some Abbey Road, some of the Analog Classics series, all OneKnob, and more.


Depends what version you originally bought. My Gold bundle, when last upgraded was V9.....which conveniently doesn’t work on Big Sur. V12 does, so if you want them to work, you pay the “ransom”. Your day will come Lol! You also can’t update the Waves plugins (after a certain time period) unless you pay a fee. Just look in your account in the Waves app, it will show the expiry dates.


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## dzilizzi (May 6, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> Apple improves the OS, introducing security and privacy features, protecting their users.
> Big Sur introduced security volumes, became more theral about running kernel level code, and introduced a ton of privacy features in addition.
> 
> While you can see it as "Apple breaks everything", you can also see if from a different perspective:
> ...


Windows 10 updates have broken things for me. But generally, I have very few problems and am even able to run programs from 2006 (my favorite photo editing program) And most of the time they fix it with the next update.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 6, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> If it works you do NOT need to WUP.


That is the whole point, I need to pay the WUP if I want to use the V12 versions. Same old plugins! If I don’t pay, they don’t work.


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## bvaughn0402 (May 6, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I’ve never had to WUP Waves anything, ever, across many (Mac) computers. I have several dozen Waves plugins including Platinum, most of the Artist series, some Abbey Road, some of the Analog Classics series, all OneKnob, and more.


But ... just to be clear ... if you don't WUP then basically you never update right?

It seems to me that it would be better for them to keep all things in sync. So if you buy a new plugin, it should reset all your plugins to that date.

I have so many of their plugins I realized I really need to wait until the last one expires, then purchase WUP to update the whole lot of them (to employ the max price). Right now, I would employ the max price for like 1/2 of them, and have to repeat that again in like 8 months.

Seems better to wait 8 months ... THEN pay the max WUP price for ALL of them, instead of 2x.


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## Soundbed (May 6, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Depends what version you originally bought. My Gold bundle, when last upgraded was V9.....which conveniently doesn’t work on Big Sur. V12 does, so if you want them to work, you pay the “ransom”. Your day will come Lol! You also can’t update the Waves plugins (after a certain time period) unless you pay a fee. Just look in your account in the Waves app, it will show the expiry dates.


They are almost all expired and have been expired for years.


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## AudioLoco (May 6, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Depends what version you originally bought. My Gold bundle, when last upgraded was V9.....which conveniently doesn’t work on Big Sur. V12 does, so if you want them to work, you pay the “ransom”. Your day will come Lol! You also can’t update the Waves plugins (after a certain time period) unless you pay a fee. Just look in your account in the Waves app, it will show the expiry dates.


You should really stop using words such as "scam" and "ransom".

Again - if a whole new OS makes a plugin not usable, it is not written anywhere that the company making the the plugin has to do the extra work for you for free. 
Some companies may offer this, other not necessarily. 

It is all very clear from the user agreement.


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## Soundbed (May 6, 2021)

bvaughn0402 said:


> But ... just to be clear ... if you don't WUP then basically you never update right?
> 
> It seems to me that it would be better for them to keep all things in sync. So if you buy a new plugin, it should reset all your plugins to that date.
> 
> ...


I’ve never needed to buy the updates to Waves plugins. The plugins I’ve owned for years get installed with newer versions of installers ... for instance I bought some of them 10 years ago, and I have gotten updated interfaces for some of those classic EQs and stuff.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 6, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> They are almost all expired and have been expired for years.


Are you on Big Sur?


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## SupremeFist (May 6, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> No, that's not the case at all. Waves plugins DO work on the latest OS, but they con you into paying for the latest version of their plugins....that have already been paid for (often more than once). It's a total scam. They clearly plan it this way.


I just upgraded to Big Sur and a lot of my v 10 plugins still work (happily, the ones I still use, like Abbey Road TG Mastering Chain, Puigchild Compressor, Schoeps channel etc), but some others (a bunch of stuff in Gold) don't...


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 6, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I just upgraded to Big Sur and a lot of my v 10 plugins still work (happily, the ones I still use, like Abbey Road TG Mastering Chain, Puigchild Compressor, Schoeps channel etc), but some others (a bunch of stuff in Gold) don't...


That's good! I'm pretty sure it's V9 that won't work.


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## kitekrazy (May 6, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I stopped using waves....the WUP is a con....the few I do have are activated to a USB drive to avoid this BS.


Same here. Their licensing is one of the worst. I have iLok licenses that allow 2 machines. Single machine licenses is from the dark ages. Waves is quality stuff except for their licensing.


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## dzilizzi (May 6, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> Same here. Their licensing is one of the worst. I have iLok licenses that allow 2 machines. Single machine licenses is from the dark ages. Waves is quality stuff except for their licensing.


If you have a current WUP, you get a second license. Not a reason to WUP, but an option if you do.


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## Nimrod7 (May 6, 2021)

WUP is not entirely worthless if you own a big bundle like Mercury.
It's increasing in value, since they are adding plugins for free (well, not free since we are paying for WUP).

They added CLA Epic, Kaleidoscope, Vocal Blender, and others.
I think they are adding maybe 6-7 plugins per year.


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## rrichard63 (May 6, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> I think they are adding maybe 6-7 plugins per year


According to my (not infallible) spreadsheet:

2016 - 9
2017 - 6
2018 - 3
2019 - 5
2020 - 3


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## dzilizzi (May 6, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> WUP is not entirely worthless if you own a big bundle like Mercury.
> It's increasing in value, since they are adding plugins for free (well, not free since we are paying for WUP).
> 
> They added CLA Epic, Kaleidoscope, Vocal Blender, and others.
> I think they are adding maybe 6-7 plugins per year.


About every two years I wait for the sale and WUP for the new ones. Or maybe three years. Usually it depends on whether the new stuff looks interesting.


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## easyrider (May 6, 2021)

I really dont know why they just dont offer a sub for everything...V13 is on the horizon and for windows users it will be totally worthless.

Paying for GUI resizing is a mugs game. And I wont play it.


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## bvaughn0402 (May 6, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I’ve never needed to buy the updates to Waves plugins. The plugins I’ve owned for years get installed with newer versions of installers ... for instance I bought some of them 10 years ago, and I have gotten updated interfaces for some of those classic EQs and stuff.


Wait ... if you are installing newer versions, isn't that an update? So how are you doing that without a WUP plan? Are you buying a plugin and somehow you can install newer versions of older plugins?


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 6, 2021)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Wait ... if you are installing newer versions, isn't that an update? So how are you doing that without a WUP plan? Are you buying a plugin and somehow you can install newer versions of older plugins?


Yes, I was wondering the same thing. You don’t get updated interfaces without a WUP.


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## Nimrod7 (May 7, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> According to my (not infallible) spreadsheet:
> 
> 2016 - 9
> 2017 - 6
> ...


Probably the most price efficient strategy for big bundles is to wait with WUP until they break,
Then upgrade, and get for free retrospectively all the new plugins, UI updates etc. 
It might end up being every 2-3 years...


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## rrichard63 (May 7, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> Probably the most price efficient strategy for big bundles is to wait with WUP until they break,
> Then upgrade, and get for free retrospectively all the new plugins, UI updates etc.
> It might end up being every 2-3 years...


I think that's true -- until something is added to your bundle that you can't live without while you're waiting. My plugin collection is at a point where there's nothing I can't live without.


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## Soundbed (May 7, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Are you on Big Sur?


Not yet. I’ve moved through many Mac OS versions over the years. I’m often a very late adopter of MacOS. Perhaps that has helped me avoid WUP. 


bvaughn0402 said:


> Wait ... if you are installing newer versions, isn't that an update? So how are you doing that without a WUP plan? Are you buying a plugin and somehow you can install newer versions of older plugins?


I’ve had to download (and keep a backup of) Legacy installers for some. Then when new installers are required for new plugins, I check if they will install and license the plugins I purchased previously. I was happy to see some of those classic GUIs got “updated” a while back without WUP.



Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yes, I was wondering the same thing. You don’t get updated interfaces without a WUP.


hmm... well I think those were in Platinum, which I could have only purchased once, so... 🤷🏻‍♂️


Can’t say it hasn’t taken me some time to do things without WUP (sometimes I’ve been confused and need to click around, uninstall, reinstall after OS updates or new machines). I’ve even reached out to support on occasion.

I’ve also done some math some years to figure out which plugins in a bundle I’d really use and buy them individually only until the relevant bundle “upgrade” makes financial sense for me. Usually it doesn’t because Waves’ bundle calculations are ofte
wrong. They offer me an upgrade toHorizon let’s say, with “9 new plugins” but I’ll have bought 3 of those and Waves’s system somehow doesn’t realize it. Very weird and probably something to do with the feedback system from 3rd party resellers like AudioDeluxe, Dontcrack or JRR shop.

Because I’ve bought many plugins individually my next move to avoid WUP will likely be to get the bundles like Abbey Road someday or maybe Mercury. Horizon has never made any mathematical sense for me even when it’s cheaper than WUP for me. In part because of the “wrong math” about which plugins I don’t already own mentioned above, and in part because it has plugins I won’t use.


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## gsilbers (May 7, 2021)

Funny how those amazing $29.99 deals are not really the whole price. 

Waves marketing plan:

wow - $699 but now its $35 but sometimes its 29.99 but i found a code for $24. 
Imma gonna get a bunch of plugins. 

oh- 2nd year - i need to pay $250 for this update?!? 

3rd year I need to pay Again for this stupid update $250!? 

Plugins are so cheap they give the impression they sound bad. Dont worry.. there is a sucker born every minute. 

Lets confuse poeple with the different waveshells, and tech issues so they HAVE to upgrade. 

$Bank$

Plugin alliance: 

lets do the same but lets also push for the subsciption model. 

UAD: Lets just attach a huge dongle to these plugins and make them very expensive so people think they are very good.


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## dzilizzi (May 7, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> Funny how those amazing $29.99 deals are not really the whole price.
> 
> Waves marketing plan:
> 
> ...


Well, you can always vote with your money. 

A lot of Waves plugins are really old but still good. On sale, you can sometimes find Gold for around $100. For a newbie, that's all you really need. For most, it is all you really need. Plus maybe some Abbey Road and SSL channel strips.

I bought a few Fabfilter plugins. They are a whole lot more expensive, even on sale. And so far, I guess they are free updates. I don't really check because they work. The last time I WUP'd cost me around $225. I did it because I was frustrated with having to reload a new computer with multiple installers having 9/10/11 versions. That said, I was probably upgrading 200 or so plugins. So the upgrade cost maybe $1 each?


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## SupremeFist (May 7, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Well, you can always vote with your money.
> 
> A lot of Waves plugins are really old but still good. On sale, you can sometimes find Gold for around $100. For a newbie, that's all you really need. For most, it is all you really need. Plus maybe some Abbey Road and SSL channel strips.
> 
> I bought a few Fabfilter plugins. They are a whole lot more expensive, even on sale. And so far, I guess they are free updates. I don't really check because they work. The last time I WUP'd cost me around $225. I did it because I was frustrated with having to reload a new computer with multiple installers having 9/10/11 versions. That said, I was probably upgrading 200 or so plugins. So the upgrade cost maybe $1 each?


I don't think anyone really needs Gold: the stock plugins of most daws (certainly of logic) are as good or better.


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## rrichard63 (May 7, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I was probably upgrading 200 or so plugins. So the upgrade cost maybe $1 each?


Yes and no. Instead of dividing by (for example) 200 plugins in I own, I divide by the number I actually use from time to time.


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## doctoremmet (May 7, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Yes and no. Instead of dividing by (for example) 200 plugins in I own, I divide by the number I actually use from time to time.


Good lord man... why?! Always use mental accounting to bring peace of mind... not the other way ‘round... This clearly violates the VI-C charter...


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## dzilizzi (May 7, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I don't think anyone really needs Gold: the stock plugins of most daws (certainly of logic) are as good or better.


True. But still get Waves Tune LT. I have AutoTune and Melodyne and I swear I use Waves Tune more than either of them. For basic tuning and simple harmonies, it is amazingly easy to use.


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## SupremeFist (May 7, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> True. But still get Waves Tune LT. I have AutoTune and Melodyne and I swear I use Waves Tune more than either of them. For basic tuning and simple harmonies, it is amazingly easy to use.


Well, on the rare occasions I want it, I find Flex Pitch in Logic perfectly fine. 🤷‍♂️


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## dzilizzi (May 7, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Yes and no. Instead of dividing by (for example) 200 plugins in I own, I divide by the number I actually use from time to time.


No, no, no. That would be too upsetting to think about. If I actually divided the cost by use of things I own? I might cry. We don't want that. 

My only real complaint about WUP is the Abbey Road non-bundle. It's a bundle but it isn't. So when you WUP, you don't get the new products like you do with other bundles.


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## doctoremmet (May 7, 2021)

I don’t know what bundle they are part of, but the H-series and Renaissance series of effects are brilliant really. Pretty sure my precious Ableton Suite doesn’t have those. Not forgetting the marvelous Abbey Road series. I also love Flow Motion (as a matter of fact this is one of my favourite FM synths ever) and the Clavinet *)

*) and I own a bunch of DX7s and the damn original clav  






Waves have been around for ages, but in my opinion are still creating fantastic (new) stuff from time to time. FWIW.


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## dzilizzi (May 7, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Well, on the rare occasions I want it, I find Flex Pitch in Logic perfectly fine. 🤷‍♂️


Okay, I will quit now. Waves plugins suck. WUP is a scam. Don't buy any of them. Use your stock plugins because they are better.


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## doctoremmet (May 7, 2021)

Lizzie, here’s a nice piece of music for you to hang back and relax ❤️

You and the singer share the same name.
Have a nice weekend and go make some music!


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 7, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I don’t know what bundle they are part of, but the H-series and Renaissance series of effects are brilliant really. Pretty sure my precious Ableton Suite doesn’t have those. Not forgetting the marvelous Abbey Road series. I also love Flow Motion (as a matter of fact this is one of my favourite FM synths ever) and the Clavinet *)
> 
> *) and I own a bunch of DX7s and the damn original clav
> 
> ...


Yes, I like the old Renaissance series, they were in my Gold bundle. But damned if I’ll pay another WUP after doing that three times in the past several years.....for the same old plugins that are like 20 years old.


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## SupremeFist (May 7, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Okay, I will quit now. Waves plugins suck. WUP is a scam. Don't buy any of them. Use your stock plugins because they are better.


Weird, I certainly didn't say any of that.


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## Living Fossil (May 7, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Apple makes you pay for the upgrade.


I'm on Apple and i haven't paid for any Waves Update plan since i bought some of their plugins around 2010. Had 3 computers and a couple of different OS versions since then, but never had to buy anything.

The only issue i had was when i had to update the OS of my to-be-replaced computer in order to be able to install a new Waves License Center in order to deactivate the plugins.
Since them, i have the licenses on an USB stick (which only holds my Waves licenses).


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (May 7, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> I'm on Apple and i haven't paid for any Waves Update plan since i bought some of their plugins around 2010. Had 3 computers and a couple of different OS versions since then, but never had to buy anything.
> 
> The only issue i had was when i had to update the OS of my to-be-replaced computer in order to be able to install a new Waves License Center in order to deactivate the plugins.
> Since them, i have the licenses on an USB stick (which only holds my Waves licenses).


Yes, they’ve worked on every OS (for me) since Mavericks. Bug Sur is the snag.....no dice for V9.


----------



## dzilizzi (May 7, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Weird, I certainly didn't say any of that.


I know you didn't. It is true that the plugins that come with DAWs now are a lot better than when I first started out. Additionally, at that time, Waves were some of the best you could get ITB without having to get a PCI-e card, and they weren't cheap. They also worked well and used iLok. So when people start complaining about the prices, I just think how lucky they are to be able to get these plugins for such good prices.


----------



## doctoremmet (May 7, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Weird, I certainly didn't say any of that.


You didn’t. I think Liz went through some feelings I recognize because I know them all too well. I could be completely wrong of course!

Sometimes interacting on a forum, even one that is as cool as this one, can take its toll. You feel positive about some of your own choices, or about certain instruments, sounds or whatever, and then reading whatever negative sentiments voiced by others can make a person wary or just outright tired. Speaking strictly for myself here to be clear. And these negative sentiments worded by others aren’t wrong either! It’s just that at some point one can feel like “Ok here we go again... tell me everything that SUCKS about this or that for the Nth time” and it can make me wonder why people would want to even do that - when a certain threshold is reached haha. Then I’m like “Ok, we get it. This vendor / product is not to your liking. Why repeat that ad nauseam”. Again, to be clear - I am talking about myself here, and how I sometimes lose my patience and maybe behave a little bit unreasonably haha. Not pointing any fingers at others here.

I wish all of you a very nice and musical weekend. With or without WUP. Because I’m sure we all own a couple dozen compressors, EQs, channel strips and “make-my-shit-sound-like-a-hit” bettermakere anyway hahaha. Cheers!

❤️


----------



## SupremeFist (May 7, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> You didn’t. I think Liz went through some feelings I recognize because I know them all too well. I could be completely wrong of course!
> 
> Sometimes interacting on a forum, even one that is as cool as this one, can take its toll. You feel positive about some of your own choices, or about certain instruments, sounds or whatever, and then reading whatever negative sentiments voiced by others can make a person wary or just outright tired. Speaking strictly for myself here to be clear. And these negative sentiments worded by others aren’t wrong either! It’s just that at some point one can feel like “Ok here we go again... tell me everything that SUCKS about this or that for the Nth time” and it can make me wonder why people would ant to even do that - when a certain threshold is reached haha. Then I’m like “Ok, we get it. This vendor / product is not to your liking. Why repeat that ad nauseam”. Again, to be clear - I am talking about myself here, and how I sometimes lose my patience and maybe behave a little bit unreasonable haha. Not pointing any fingers at others here.
> 
> ...


Absolutely! I love some of my Waves plugs and let's all have a restful weekend if we can! (We don't even need to write more music if we're tired.) 🤘🏻


----------



## doctoremmet (May 7, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> You didn’t. I think Liz went through some feelings I recognize because I know them all too well. I could be completely wrong of course!
> 
> Sometimes interacting on a forum, even one that is as cool as this one, can take its toll. You feel positive about some of your own choices, or about certain instruments, sounds or whatever, and then reading whatever negative sentiments voiced by others can make a person wary or just outright tired. Speaking strictly for myself here to be clear. And these negative sentiments worded by others aren’t wrong either! It’s just that at some point one can feel like “Ok here we go again... tell me everything that SUCKS about this or that for the Nth time” and it can make me wonder why people would want to even do that - when a certain threshold is reached haha. Then I’m like “Ok, we get it. This vendor / product is not to your liking. Why repeat that ad nauseam”. Again, to be clear - I am talking about myself here, and how I sometimes lose my patience and maybe behave a little bit unreasonable haha. Not pointing any fingers at others here.
> 
> ...


It may be my ADHD, I sometimes think it is. Mind’s all over the place haha.


----------



## doctoremmet (May 7, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Absolutely! I love some of my Waves plugs and let's all have a restful weekend if we can! (We don't even need to write more music if we're tired.) 🤘🏻


Word


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## dzilizzi (May 7, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Absolutely! I love some of my Waves plugs and let's all have a restful weekend if we can! (We don't even need to write more music if we're tired.) 🤘🏻


I think my second vaccine shot is affecting me more than I think. I feel fine, but tired. And I'm keeping away from sharp objects after that little accident 3 weeks ago after the first shot.


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## dzilizzi (May 7, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> You didn’t. I think Liz went through some feelings I recognize because I know them all too well. I could be completely wrong of course!
> 
> Sometimes interacting on a forum, even one that is as cool as this one, can take its toll. You feel positive about some of your own choices, or about certain instruments, sounds or whatever, and then reading whatever negative sentiments voiced by others can make a person wary or just outright tired. Speaking strictly for myself here to be clear. And these negative sentiments worded by others aren’t wrong either! It’s just that at some point one can feel like “Ok here we go again... tell me everything that SUCKS about this or that for the Nth time” and it can make me wonder why people would want to even do that - when a certain threshold is reached haha. Then I’m like “Ok, we get it. This vendor / product is not to your liking. Why repeat that ad nauseam”. Again, to be clear - I am talking about myself here, and how I sometimes lose my patience and maybe behave a little bit unreasonably haha. Not pointing any fingers at others here.
> 
> ...


LOL! This. I get tired of defending WUP. Especially when it isn't usually necessary to WUP. I think some people think it's a requirement. 

I do own way too many bettermakers. I wish more of them worked.


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## kitekrazy (May 9, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> LOL! This. I get tired of defending WUP. Especially when it isn't usually necessary to WUP. I think some people think it's a requirement.
> 
> I do own way too many bettermakers. I wish more of them worked.


Some people just don't have a discipline to say no to upgrades/updates. Older stuff does not always work correctly when a DAW/OS is updated. I don't like their business model and it's not just WUP.


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## doctoremmet (May 9, 2021)

Noted


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## dzilizzi (May 9, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> Some people just don't have a discipline to say no to upgrades/updates. Older stuff does not always work correctly when a DAW/OS is updated. I don't like their business model and it's not just WUP.


Sometimes it is necessary. I think some of the problem with Waves is that people who are newer to music don't know that the "original" prices were actually what people paid for this stuff 15 to 20 years ago. The cost of plugins and VI's used to be out of reach of most of us. Everything is so cheap comparatively now. So they think the prices are fake because the sale prices are $29. And generally, when you buy Waves, they work. The only reason they need to update is because changes to the OS break them. And they aren't the only one that breaks. 

But you do you and I am going to put this on ignore. And do my best to ignore the Waves complaint threads because they do seem get me all riled up.


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## kitekrazy (May 9, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Sometimes it is necessary. I think some of the problem with Waves is that people who are newer to music don't know that the "original" prices were actually what people paid for this stuff 15 to 20 years ago. The cost of plugins and VI's used to be out of reach of most of us. Everything is so cheap comparatively now. So they think the prices are fake because the sale prices are $29. And generally, when you buy Waves, they work. The only reason they need to update is because changes to the OS break them. And they aren't the only one that breaks.
> 
> But you do you and I am going to put this on ignore. And do my best to ignore the Waves complaint threads because they do seem get me all riled up.


Many years ago many of the veterans here belonged to a forum called Northern Sound Source and there were over 30 pages about people ditching Waves because they had a really bad policy. I don't really buy them anymore. I have everything from Melda, Izotope, IK, and who knows what else. Waves makes great plugins and their Renn plugins are still some of the best today. I don't get riled up over stuff because it's just software.I just don't buy their stuff when the others above allow for more than one machine without hassles. I do have lots of Waves on my systems.


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## AudioLoco (May 10, 2021)

Also Waves are the company that has been the most hit by piracy, no question about it.
They were pirated like crazy. in the whole of the 2000-2010s you would go around many commercial studios, big and small, and found a nice, clearly not legitimate copy of their entire catalog, worth 1000s of dollars and at the time, the only software actually up there and capable to do the job.
Probably also now people still steal from them, so all those updates, installers etc I think are there as an additional deterrent. (I'm guessing)


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## easyrider (May 10, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> Also Waves are the company that has been the most hit by piracy, no question about it.
> They were pirated like crazy. in the whole of the 2000-2010s you would go around many commercial studios, big and small, and found a nice, clearly not legitimate copy of their entire catalog, worth 1000s of dollars and at the time, the only software actually up there and capable to do the job.
> Probably also now people still steal from them, so all those updates, installers etc I think are there as an additional deterrent. (I'm guessing)


Probably cause of WUP 🤣


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2021)

Like KRS said: the P is free ‘cause the crack cost money.


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## AudioLoco (May 10, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Probably cause of WUP 🤣


There was no WUP back then...


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## easyrider (May 10, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> There was no WUP back then...


The did free updates?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (May 10, 2021)

I don't understand why everyone's so upset with WUP. I think it's Cardi B's best song yet.


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## AudioLoco (May 10, 2021)

easyrider said:


> The did free updates?


I think so... can't remember 100% though...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (May 10, 2021)

easyrider said:


> The did free updates?


Yes


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2021)

Like we say in The Netherlands at moments like this:

Vroeger was alles beter.

(except oversampling of course)


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## X-Bassist (May 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> The last time I WUP'd cost me around $225.


Ok. I don’t have the Mercury bundle, but maybe 20 plugins. I have never WUP’d (just send my licenses to the cloud then bring them back on a new system, most of them were bought v9, some v10).

As far as I can see WUP would be $600 for all of them, maybe getting 25% off at sale. How did you get it for Mercury bundle for $225? At that price it may be worth it someday. But to be honest, perhaps not if they all work without.

And that’s the rub. It’s really extra money to see if there are any updates, which is usually a big no. They’ve worked on n every system I have, so it seems silly (or a scam) to pay for updates that aren’t really updates (a new interface? Unless it works better or has new functions, I’m not sure that is anything but a cosmetic update).

Personally I think it would be better to charge more for the plugins and stop all the WUP silliness, but since Waves don’t ever seem to want to improve their plugins or add extra features, they figure this is the best way to get paid more from pros (who have the money due to using these for jobs) yet sell 100s of units to hobbiests who will only use them a few times then ditch it when it no longer works (it was only $29, I’m not paying 3 times that to get it working!)

Now say what you want about Fabfiler, but they are great plugins that keep working, have no WUP, and actually get CHEAPER as you buy more. I now have all of them but the last few were like 80%off because of the auto discount they have when you own others. And they are constantly improving them. But in minor updates and major ones, Q2 was my main EQ until Q3 came out, Now I can’t go back, dynamic EQ rocks. And no body does it better, clean clear interface, Full spectrum display always, great controls, 24 bands of parametric EQ, who does that? I never thought I needed more than 8 or 9 Yet now I use 12-16 bands regularly. 

And the sound quality is fantastic considering all the surgical EQ I use. Nothing from Waves or anywhere else even comes close. So yes, it may be $179 for your first plugin (or 30% off at a sale) but keeps getting cheaper and cheaper after that. For the best in the world (ok, just my opinion, but this is from a mixer that uses them on jobs constantly) this is a great deal.

If I had to choose 4 desert island plugin makers it would be Fabfilter, iZotope (film post) Kush and Soundtoys. Add a handful of good reverbs and I really wouldn’t need anything else. Waves would come somewhere around 20th. 😄

So when valuing WUP you really should look at how much you use the plugins. FF Q3 came out a year ago and I’ve used it in maybe 100 sessions, so they price seems very reasonable (esp since my update from Q2 was $40 with all there loyalty discounts). Thank you Fabfilter! No dongle, no WUP, no extra money, and if it breaks from an OS they email me with an update within days. Great company that’s actually trying to improve things. That’s a steal at $179, or $120,... or $40. 😄👍


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## greggybud (May 10, 2021)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I don't understand why everyone's so upset with WUP. I think it's Cardi B's best song yet.


Congratulations!

After 5 pages here, yours is the first unique WUP contribution that I haven't seen in 27 pages here:








Any Waves plugins worth buying? - Gearspace.com


Hi, There seems to be masses of Waves plugins for sale all the time and I'm curious to know if any of them are particularly worthwhile purchasing? In a



gearspace.com




or here:








Anyone quit Waves re: WUP? - Gearspace.com


Upgraded to Catalina Mac OS- everything was working great then I decided to update the Waves Central App. Now missing licenses on all Waves plugins- 454 to be exact. going to be almost 300 to WUP- I'm asking myself in this day and age with Sound Toys and



gearspace.com





I'm not sure WUP will ever exceed Behringer Bashing of the 90s, but over the past 10 years it certainly has a good start.

Poor Tracy, the developer of wonderful guitar tools priced very well, probably has no clue what he just started a few days ago.


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## greggybud (May 10, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> As far as I can see WUP would be $600 for all of them,



No.

There is a WUP cap of I think $230, but is also discounted from time to time.

Your post really illustrates the marketing problem Waves has had since the WUP inception. Some people just don't get it. It can be confusing. The best thing is to always call Waves and let a salesman give different options that are not always available to public.


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## dzilizzi (May 10, 2021)

WUP maxes out at $300 not on sale for one year. That said, they will take it out to the last date of the selected products year. So if you have a mix of WUP ending dates, they will add a year to the last expiration date and WUP everything to that date at $300 per year adjusted by the date. I have been quoted a price over $300 a few times because of this. This last time, everything had run out of WUP. So Mercury, Abbey Road, Studio thing, instruments, and various individual plugins all got WUP'd for about $225. So it was more than just Mercury. Always select all when getting a price. Then back off any that are new and don't need WUP. Never WUP by single item. Then, after you get the price and decide it is good, get the code and take it to a dealer like Everyplugin.com and see if the have a discount code.


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## greggybud (May 10, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> And that’s the rub. It’s really extra money to see if there are any updates, which is usually a big no. They’ve worked on n every system I have, so it seems silly (or a scam) to pay for updates that aren’t really updates (a new interface? Unless it works better or has new functions, I’m not sure that is anything but a cosmetic update).
> 
> Personally I think it would be better to charge more for the plugins and stop all the WUP silliness, but since Waves don’t ever seem to want to improve their plugins or add extra features, they figure this is the best way to get paid more from pros (who have the money due to using these for jobs) yet sell 100s of units to hobbiests who will only use them a few times then ditch it when it no longer works (it was only $29, I’m not paying 3 times that to get it working!)
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say its a rub. You can download the demo before purchasing correct?

Cosmetic updates cost money too. However I think the cheap route Waves recently took with different sizing is pretty lame.

As far as charging more, every developer has their own marketing strategy. Most do enough data research to arrive at their strategy. Personally, I think Plug-In Alliances is pretty interesting, but it too with all the different exclusions and discount methods is confusing.

Waves does improve some of their plugs beyond the GUI. Maybe you have not noticed? They also release new plugs that are included when you purchase an existing bundle.

The entire industry is pretty much driven by hobbyists. "Pros" are at the hobbyists mercy. IMO, this is also why DAW development growth is hindered and why "new features" are included while bugs and unfinished features remain with new updates/upgrades. 

Fab Filter is a wonderful company. ProQ3 is one of my go-to plugs. But no way would I suggest "nobody does it better" because for example IMO for surgical goals with tight Qs and specific features like iso-peak, plus providing more transparency, its definitely Massenburgs MDWEQ for me.

For me these days, Waves tools are sort of a "filler" when UAD, SoundToys, or a host of other tools isn't available. I certainly still like the Waves Ren. Collection. The Waves Vocal and Bass Riders usually get me 80% there however I still do lots of manual in that area. And that poor lonely Waves Q-Clone with thousands of 3rd party presets just never caught on after it's initial excitement. I still use Q-Clone to import a hardware EQ profile, then adjust.

For most developers, i think there is a day when they don't continue to provide free updates due to an OS update. Every developer is different. NI seems to abandon some of their tools. As said this problem is usually with Apples OS updates. Many Waves users have never updated for years and seem to be content on Windows, therefore no need to WUP. Should Windows users subsidize Apple users in the cost of developing a new Apple OS?


----------



## greggybud (May 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Never WUP by single item.


Actually in my situation it did make sense to WUP a single or very few plugs. The reason is that the WUP spent, went toward a credit of a bundle that was already on sale that didn't include these plugs. Iirc, WUP money spent can go toward a credit of up to 50% off any bundle. And that's not the silly list price. That is the current advertised price. I think I paid $150 for Horizon. Of course that was last year. Who knows this year?

Again, this is why i suggest users call Waves sales, and ask for all their options. Then of course call the competition. Waves has so many different on-going deals it's nearly impossible to keep track of them.


----------



## AudioLoco (May 10, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> Ok. I don’t have the Mercury bundle, but maybe 20 plugins. I have never WUP’d (just send my licenses to the cloud then bring them back on a new system, most of them were bought v9, some v10).
> 
> As far as I can see WUP would be $600 for all of them, maybe getting 25% off at sale. How did you get it for Mercury bundle for $225? At that price it may be worth it someday. But to be honest, perhaps not if they all work without.
> 
> ...


I really agree re: the more expensive plugins plus no WUP, you are absolutely spot on I think.
WUP has been a big problem for them also "image" wise I think they will probably have to change at one point once enough people will abandon their products (rightfully or not) and even cooking and make up forums will start to have threads about WUP.

Also a big fan of Q3 which is my main workhorse because it's great. My main go to for precise cuts was Q10 for years before that. It was also the favorite of many many engineers like Elmhirst for example.

Yet, at the moment, i have to find a better plugin to match the old Rbass, MV2 is unique and special, Kramer Pye has no counterparts, the TG12345 has a killer compressor, CLABass is the fastest way to get to a "record" bass sound, OmniChannel sounds great fast, CLA76 is awesome, some people swear by Rvox, Doubler is magic, the API2500 still holds easily its own (I compared it directly with the HW, not bad), Kramer VintageTape still gets some use, Element is actually a very cool sounding synth...

I don't have any boundle, just the single plugins. All in all I still couldn't part with them.


----------



## SupremeFist (May 10, 2021)

Forgot about Bass Rider, that's another great one. I did actually WUP for my half-dozen faves (not Gold) a year ago because it was only like $70 at the time, and now I can update those all to v12 and hope that the next few Macos updates don't break them. All in all this isn't a "scam"; it's a business model you can take or leave. I've certainly got waaaay more than $29 of value out of Puigchild, Scheps, Abbey Road TG etc even including paying for one update.


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## A3D2 (Jun 29, 2021)

Hi everyone,

I'm currently starting to look for replacements for my Waves plugins since I don't want to pay the WUP anymore and it won't work on my next macOS. I was wondering if anyone knows a good alternative for the RS56 Passive Eq. I use that thing a lot. I do have some Pulteq style eqs and 2 warm audio pulteq's, but still they sound different to the RS56. If you have any suggestions, please let me know! Thanks!


----------



## robgb (Jun 29, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> My first question would be Mac or Windows. Windows would be no problem. Mac OS updates pretty much break Waves every time.
> 
> Before buying a WUP, check for a bundle upgrade. They are usually cheaper. Also, everyplugin.com usually has the deals on Waves. They have a discount code - probably have to Google it or ask support. They will tell you.
> 
> Also, you can put the licences on a USB drive so if you change your drive, it isn't a problem.


A Mac update has never broken any of my waves plugins.


----------



## rrichard63 (Jun 29, 2021)

A3D2 said:


> ... I was wondering if anyone knows a good alternative for the RS56 Passive Eq. I use that thing a lot. I do have some Pulteq style eqs and 2 warm audio pulteq's, but still they sound different to the RS56. If you have any suggestions, please let me know! Thanks!


You might consider Softube's Chandler Limited Curve Bender (also available on the Universal Audio UAD platform). I have not compared it with Waves RS56, but Chandler Limited's hardware is based on EMI/Abbey Road originals, so it might have some of what you're looking for.

EDIT: The Curve Bender is derived from different EMI/Abbey Road hardware (the TG12345 console), which I don't think is a passive EQ. Might be worth a look anyway.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 29, 2021)

robgb said:


> A Mac update has never broken any of my waves plugins.


If you have any V9 waves plugins, they don't work on Big Sur (as confirmed by my own experience and Waves support). No way I'm paying to upgrade my old Gold bundle.


----------



## Gary Williamson (Jun 29, 2021)

Ive never WUP'd, still using v9 plugs on my PC I built 6 months ago, you just have to install the legacy version of Waves Central to use with the old plugs, and the new WC for any new plugs.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 29, 2021)

Gary Williamson said:


> Ive never WUP'd, still using v9 plugs on my PC I built 6 months ago, you just have to install the legacy version of Waves Central to use with the old plugs, and the new WC for any new plugs.


On PC, yes. Doesn't work on Mac Big Sur.


----------



## robgb (Jun 29, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> If you have any V9 waves plugins, they don't work on Big Sur (as confirmed by my own experience and Waves support). No way I'm paying to upgrade my old Gold bundle.


I get that and don't blame you. But why do so many people who don't blink at paying a couple hundred bucks for a DAW update get upset over paying a few bucks for a plugin update?


----------



## PeterN (Jun 29, 2021)

robgb said:


> I get that and don't blame you. But why do so many people who don't blink at paying a couple hundred bucks for a DAW update get upset over paying a few bucks for a plugin update?



I recall the few buck being 220 USD and on part of that they locked them, with a ransom. Its not a BIG DEAL, but deal enough, so that its there in the consciousness. I could give that 220 USD instead to charity or something, not to crooks. They dont deserve them - if well deserved, all cool. They are blocked in me email too, since they spam every day. Waves dirty plugins, would be a good name. This are the same shi-ts that overcharged you for your first guitar, and scammed you, when you bought your first guitar as 11 year old.


----------



## Technostica (Jun 29, 2021)

robgb said:


> I get that and don't blame you. But why do so many people who don't blink at paying a couple hundred bucks for a DAW update get upset over paying a few bucks for a plugin update?


Brauer Motion
$27 New
$12 WUP (from version 11 to 12)
45% of new price just to upgrade from the previous version.
Unlike paying for a DAW upgrade, which from a previous version is usually cheaper than that percentage wise, don’t expect to get much from a Waves upgrade.
Money for old rope is the term that comes to mind.

I just clicked on all my expired licences and they want $66 to upgrade them.
I think I paid $50 for them in total as many were free
Free for a good reason as Waves want to WUP our asses.


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## A3D2 (Jun 29, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> You might consider Softube's Chandler Limited Curve Bender (also available on the Universal Audio UAD platform). I have not compared it with Waves RS56, but Chandler Limited's hardware is based on EMI/Abbey Road originals, so it might have some of what you're looking for.
> 
> EDIT: The Curve Bender is derived from different EMI/Abbey Road hardware (the TG12345 console), which I don't think is a passive EQ. Might be worth a look anyway.


Thanks! I'll give that plugin a try. Looks interesting 😊


----------



## Soundbed (Jun 29, 2021)

A3D2 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm currently starting to look for replacements for my Waves plugins since I don't want to pay the WUP anymore and it won't work on my next macOS. I was wondering if anyone knows a good alternative for the RS56 Passive Eq. I use that thing a lot. I do have some Pulteq style eqs and 2 warm audio pulteq's, but still they sound different to the RS56. If you have any suggestions, please let me know! Thanks!


Have you tried 

PTEq-X (free)









IGNITE AMPS - Engineering for the moshpit


Italian tube and solid state amplifiers, stomp-boxes and audio plug-ins




www.igniteamps.com




?
also if you have Komplete there’s a Softube passive stereo EQ bundled with the NI stuff.


----------



## Soundbed (Jun 29, 2021)

This one _seems_ modeled after the Manley Massive Passive …






PASSIVE EQ


Rich, natural sound of high-end, tube-powered studio gear. Musical character makes this the top choice for a wide range of production needs.




www.native-instruments.com


----------



## Reid Rosefelt (Jun 29, 2021)

I'd like to say something nice about Waves customer service. I'm not being ironic.

For a number of reasons I decided to not use any of my Waves plugins anymore. For reasons that have to do with how incredibly dumb I am, I tried to delete them from my system. But I didn't do it right (through the Waves app). So it was the worst of all worlds. They still tripped up many of my programs (like my video editor) when they were loading, but they didn't work anymore.

So I contacted Waves. The guy couldn't have been nicer. He didn't ask me to WUP. He gave me simple instructions and now my version 10 Waves plugins are back on my computer, working like champs. He also told me how to do the ver 9 ones, but I haven't gotten around to that. I've been busy. TV shows to watch, etc.

Anyway thanks to that nice guy at Waves, all my ver 10 plugs are now fully at the ready for me to never use!

Thanks Waves!


----------



## A3D2 (Jun 30, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> I really agree re: the more expensive plugins plus no WUP, you are absolutely spot on I think.
> WUP has been a big problem for them also "image" wise I think they will probably have to change at one point once enough people will abandon their products (rightfully or not) and even cooking and make up forums will start to have threads about WUP.
> 
> Also a big fan of Q3 which is my main workhorse because it's great. My main go to for precise cuts was Q10 for years before that. It was also the favorite of many many engineers like Elmhirst for example.
> ...


@AudioLoco I found a great R-bass replacement by denise plugins called Bass XL: https://www.denise.io/store/denise/BassXL It totally sounds the same to my ears.


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## A3D2 (Jun 30, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> This one _seems_ modeled after the Manley Massive Passive …
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion! I'll check it out. I also found Positive Grid's Passive EQ which seems to be very similar to the RS56


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## PeterN (Jun 30, 2021)

How ahout the Vitamin plugin? Anything like it out there yet?

Hope other developers understand how eager some of us are to abandon Waves, by doing some similar stuff, you can even tag a higher price, all for it.

Just as a side note, my bitterness is personal, they fu..ek up my studio session by locking all plugins with a ransom. So its more than the WUP. And its more than me, for sure, not the only one who they put in turmoil. 

You can even spam mailbox once a week, thats like 6 times less a week than Waves.

Do like the Chinese, call it Sitamin or something.


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## SupremeFist (Jun 30, 2021)

Is there anything I need to be aware of before committing to "get latest version" before my WUP runs out? The v10 plugins I care about are working fine on my Mac with Big Sur but they're not officially supported. Any downsides (apart from the hassle of reinstalling) to getting v12 of everything?


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## greggybud (Jun 30, 2021)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Anyway thanks to that nice guy at Waves,


I have spent many hours with Waves support and Team Viewer. Actually, many hours over 3 different days with 2 support guys. The issue was with Wavelab 10.

My experience is the same as yours. Very professional. Friendly. Frank. I rank their support high...as well as UAD.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 1, 2021)

greggybud said:


> I have spent many hours with Waves support and Team Viewer. Actually, many hours over 3 different days with 2 support guys. The issue was with Wavelab 10.
> 
> My experience is the same as yours. Very professional. Friendly. Frank. I rank their support high...as well as UAD.


I would say that Waves service was as good as the very best companies I've dealt with. He got back to me immediately with very clear information that solved my problem. And then he wrote to make sure it worked and tell me to be free to write again with any other problems. 

And I've never paid one cent for WUP.

My feeling is that if they want to have WUP, they are entitled to run their business as they see fit. Nobody has to buy from them if they don't like it. My problem is that I bought a lot of their products before I understood what WUP was. 

I also agree with @dzilizzi that they have some great stuff. I really wish I felt it was safe to use them.

I used to use iZotope's Neutron on every track. It was really a big part of my workflow. Then it suddenly wouldn't load anymore. iZotope was great, but they couldn't fix it. So all the tracks I did need to be completely remixed. Hours of work out the window on each one. So I don't want to use a product that might not be available someday. I suppose it could happen with anything, but with Waves I believe it WILL happen someday. Maybe Windows 11 or a Mac update will require you pay up your WUP.

I wish they would simply price their products at fair prices that people are willing to pay. Charge for updates if it's warranted. And leave it at that. But again, it's their right to do what they want. And my right not to ever buy from them again no matter how much I might like one of their products if another company sold it.


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## sostenuto (Jul 1, 2021)

TigerTheFrog said:


> I would say that Waves service was as good as the very best companies I've dealt with. He got back to me immediately with very clear information that solved my problem. And then he wrote to make sure it worked and tell me to be free to write again with any other problems.
> (edit) .......................................................................................





TigerTheFrog said:


> I wish they would simply price their products at fair prices that people are willing to pay. Charge for updates if it's warranted. And leave it at that. But again, it's their right to do what they want. And my right not to ever buy from them again no matter how much I might like one of their products if another company sold it.


Similar, very positive telephone Support over several years. Waves Central now at 12.0.20 
Have not understood various comments re. going to Legacy version to be able to use older plugins.
Time to call Waves Support again to clarify some of what is posted here. Not ready to give up yet.


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## PeterN (Jul 1, 2021)

TigerTheFrog said:


> My feeling is that if they want to have WUP, they are entitled to run their business as they see fit. Nobody has to buy from them if they don't like it. My problem is that I bought a lot of their products before I understood what WUP was.



Yea, not too clearly informed - right. Most likely not a coincidence. This is a business model to sell plugins "50% off" to poor musicians, and then have the WUP hidden in there. Guess is that half of buyers have no idea about this WUP. And tjere is no update anywa, the plugins were same for years, even if you WUPd them.

The way they got me, with a clever plan, and succeeded in locking all Waves plugins, was by offering a free plugin for Black Friday (if I remember it correct), then, somewhere inside some T&C they had hidden some note that installing it will lock all your earlier plugins that are not v11 or something like that. Cant remember the details anymore - but its a good trick.

Free not to use them, yes.

Oh, and btw, Fabfilter and Soundtoys do not operate like this, and make great plugins. Quality products with no hidden cheats, highly recommended. No spamming either, maybe once every 3 months, and then its news, update, sale or new stuff.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 1, 2021)

TigerTheFrog said:


> I would say that Waves service was as good as the very best companies I've dealt with. He got back to me immediately with very clear information that solved my problem. And then he wrote to make sure it worked and tell me to be free to write again with any other problems.
> 
> And I've never paid one cent for WUP.
> 
> ...


I never WUP'd until I ran out of cheaper upgrade options. Really, on sale? Click all your products and see what your upgrade options are. I think my last upgrade was $50 for Mercury+Studio Classics. And you can probably WUP for half price right now. Just to say, the max for a year for all products is $300. It's best to WUP when WUP is on sale and all your products are out of WUP. 


And truthfully? Other than the upgrade from 6 to 9 because ProTools switched from 32 bit RTAS to 64 bit AAX plugin format, I only really only WUP'd when there was enough to make it worth it. And this last time because I was so frustrated with loading all the different versions. Since there is not much really new I want, I will probably upgrade once more before my WUP runs out and I will be good for a long while - I hope.


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## greggybud (Jul 1, 2021)

TigerTheFrog said:


> I suppose it could happen with anything, but with Waves I believe it WILL happen someday. Maybe Windows 11 or a Mac update will require you pay up your WUP.


I understand your mind is made up. 

_"My feeling is that if they want to have WUP, they are entitled to run their business as they see fit. Nobody has to buy from them if they don't like it."_

And if it doesn't work for Waves, they will either go out of business or change their business paradigm._

"My problem is that I bought a lot of their products before I understood what WUP was."_

Once the price drops to $29, I think that's the problem for a lot of users who complain about Waves on forums. And IMO Waves does have a marketing issue regarding WUP because there is simply too much negative noise and misunderstanding about WUP. To this day, users write about ridiculously high WUP without even understanding there is a WUP cap. Hardly no one mentions credits.

I always suggest calling Waves sales. There are too many behind the scene "promotions" for example credits for upgrade discounts, or pay WUP then credits for other bundles. I don't see credits mentioned much in Waves advertisements. When a discounted BF bundle after Thanksgiving _costs less than the WUP for the identical bundle_, they have something better in store for you. Tell them you are ready to go with 3rd party replacements, mention specific names, and ready to dump Waves. The worst scenario would be a Waves offer which you refuse.

I know nothing about Windows 11. But based on prior experience, I would hope Waves are compatible with Windows 11 without a WUP. 

MAC OS, I would never use Waves without understanding Mac OS often breaks compatibility, therefore a forced WUP. Personally, I look at my SoundToys bundle, all my UAD stuff, Waves, NI bundle, PA plugs and 3rd party stuff, then decide how to budget in October. For my use, Waves isn't charging too much. I would gladly pay the WUP cap in a year from now if I really needed to. My current Waves tools are mostly fill-in tools when there is nothing else in my tool box with exception of the Renaissance products, Q-Clone, and Scheps.

Waves plugs, as mentioned above, don't change very much over time. Backwards compatibility is excellent. I see this as an advantage, not the current marketing/forum hype that I don't have the newest tools. 

That's an advantage for users who actually _learn their tools_, and stick with the same tools, because it gets results. Not so much because they are the "best" or "most advanced" but because a professional knows the tool intimately just like outboard gear, uses it daily, and can predict the audio result even before turning a knob. I learned that long ago from a very well known ME who had all kinds of gear options, yet in a given specific objective opted for the software L-2, and gave me a good smile and explanation.

And finally, thanks for your BF sales data gathering work. It is _the best_ resource I have ever seen for BF deals. If anyone has a grasp on the BF deals, it's often from your BF thread.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jul 1, 2021)

greggybud said:


> I understand your mind is made up.
> 
> _"My feeling is that if they want to have WUP, they are entitled to run their business as they see fit. Nobody has to buy from them if they don't like it."_
> 
> ...


Yes, rightly or wrongly, my mind is made up. 

But I am sure Waves will continue to prosper. They have countless satisfied customers. 

I agree with you completely about plugins. I have experimented with a lot of plugins, but I use very few, and I ONLY buy new ones if I can demo them and feel they offer something I don't have. 

Thanks for your kind words about my Black Friday post. I am already working to make this year the best one yet.


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## coolbass (Jul 1, 2021)

PeterN said:


> Yea, not too clearly informed - right. Most likely not a coincidence. This is a business model to sell plugins "50% off" to poor musicians, and then have the WUP hidden in there. Guess is that half of buyers have no idea about this WUP. And tjere is no update anywa, the plugins were same for years, even if you WUPd them.
> 
> The way they got me, with a clever plan, and succeeded in locking all Waves plugins, was by offering a free plugin for Black Friday (if I remember it correct), then, somewhere inside some T&C they had hidden some note that installing it will lock all your earlier plugins that are not v11 or something like that. Cant remember the details anymore - but its a good trick.
> 
> ...


I do not think this is true. This not the way Waves operate and I never experienced anything like that from them. I suspect user error.


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## greggybud (Jul 1, 2021)

coolbass said:


> I do not think this is true. This not the way Waves operate and I never experienced anything like that from them. I suspect user error.


Actually the part about getting a free Waves plug and installing it and then prior version not working is true. But that was remedied very quickly. And that was a horrible mistake on Waves part without not having IMO better marketing in place. Iirc, it was going from V9 to V10?


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## Alchemedia (Jul 1, 2021)

Everyone seems to hate their WUP, myself included, however they've been around forever and so many pros rely on even their oldest plugins to this day, so I suppose they're doing something right. My experience has always been the same as Tiger's with their support team, but I only use a handful of the numerous Waves plugs I've purchased over the years.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 2, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Is there anything I need to be aware of before committing to "get latest version" before my WUP runs out? The v10 plugins I care about are working fine on my Mac with Big Sur but they're not officially supported. Any downsides (apart from the hassle of reinstalling) to getting v12 of everything?


To answer my own question in case anyone else was wondering: update went fine (but was slow so don't do it if you need to work the same day). Resizable GUIs are very welcome since I work at 4k.


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## sostenuto (Jul 2, 2021)

Some reasonable supportive points here. Will likely WUP at next Promo. 😇


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> It's not a scam. You don't understand how it works.
> I have Windows and NEVER EVER had to WUP.


+1 same! 
Awful old-style GUI most of times but considering how well they work – I have no problem at all with that


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## lancemontgomery (Jul 4, 2021)

I've been waiting for this day to come.

I am getting a 100% guaranteed crashes in Logic every time opening a project I've been working on for the past week. I have quit and reopened this project multiple times. Come to it today and crash—not while opening Logic, only while opening the project. I have done absolutely nothing to my system or DAW, no updates, etc. It blames "WaveShell1-AU.10.0.53" in the crash report, so I went and deleted that component file (saved it of course in a .zip). Kramer Tape was the offending plugin—I could tell because it was the only plugin in my session that wouldn't load after removing the component. Session opens fine now. I have been using that plugin all the time, literally daily, in a recent ongoing project.

So other than (I hate to say it but...) planned obsolescence, what could have happened to my system over one night, without having touched it, that would have suddenly caused this one plugin to crash Logic?


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## storyteller (Jul 5, 2021)

lancemontgomery said:


> I've been waiting for this day to come.
> 
> I am getting a 100% guaranteed crashes in Logic every time opening a project I've been working on for the past week. I have quit and reopened this project multiple times. Come to it today and crash—not while opening Logic, only while opening the project. I have done absolutely nothing to my system or DAW, no updates, etc. It blames "WaveShell1-AU.10.0.53" in the crash report, so I went and deleted that component file (saved it of course in a .zip). Kramer Tape was the offending plugin—I could tell because it was the only plugin in my session that wouldn't load after removing the component. Session opens fine now. I have been using that plugin all the time, literally daily, in a recent ongoing project.
> 
> So other than (I hate to say it but...) planned obsolescence, what could have happened to my system over one night, without having touched it, that would have suddenly caused this one plugin to crash Logic?


Before I decided to WUP to v12 (my first WUP ever actually), I did learn that only v12 plugins were fully compatible with OSX Catalina. Waves never said exactly what the incompatibilities were, nor which were the offending plugins. I know I had v9, v10, and v11 plugins running just fine, but I slowly started noticing project crashes and daw crashes on plug-in scans mostly related to a few random v9 and v10 plugs. I’d wager that some combination of updates or system changes caused it. just a guess though.


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## lancemontgomery (Jul 5, 2021)

storyteller said:


> Before I decided to WUP to v12 (my first WUP ever actually), I did learn that only v12 plugins were fully compatible with OSX Catalina. Waves never said exactly what the incompatibilities were, nor which were the offending plugins. I know I had v9, v10, and v11 plugins running just fine, but I slowly started noticing project crashes and daw crashes on plug-in scans mostly related to a few random v9 and v10 plugs. I’d wager that some combination of updates or system changes caused it. just a guess though.


That’s the funny thing tho. I have done nothing to my system. It was working on Friday, crashing on Sunday. Same project file had been opened and closed multiple times over days. Suddenly Kramer Tape is incompatible, though I’ve been using it daily.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 5, 2021)

lancemontgomery said:


> That’s the funny thing tho. I have done nothing to my system. It was working on Friday, crashing on Sunday. Same project file had been opened and closed multiple times over days. Suddenly Kramer Tape is incompatible, though I’ve been using it daily.


Not sure this is necessarily Waves specific as I've had Logic do the same thing from time to time and the most recent alleged culprit was Softube Tape. I don't know how far we can trust its reporting in this regard, but for me a reboot has always fixed it.


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## Henu (Jul 5, 2021)

I switched computers last week, and for my pleasant surprise, I could now install and modify my v10 licences from the retail version of their central application. "Finally, they get it", I laughed and installed everything in ten minutes. "No more deliberate customer annoying and making life extremely difficult for those who don't buy the newest update right away".

Then today I had to switch a wifi adapter from the computer, only to be greeted with "no Waves licences found"- nag screen when starting Cubase. Seemingly, they still haven't fixed that MOST FUCKING STUPID AND IRRITATING AUTHORIZING MECHANIC EVER CREATED BY MAN which is to _tie your licences into a fucking NETWORK ADAPTER_.

Yes, I'm still infuriated, even though I could still re-install the old adapter back and got those licences to work with the new one.....by re-installing that old adapter, then releasing the licences to the cloud, then changing the adapter into the new one and _then_ re-licencing the licences back to the NEW adapter. I mean, holy shit. Seriously, Waves.


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## lancemontgomery (Jul 5, 2021)

I mean, all this would be different if they were like Adobe. Hate on Adobe all you want for their change to CC. But they release features and fixes just about every week. Waves was like: “hey all the big kids are moving to subscriptions—we can do it too!” 

Sorry Waves, no. You are not the same as Adobe. You don’t release features, you just stay functional. Your annual “new version” is basically _*long-time-customer-subsidized relevancy*_. You keep yourselves relevant (read “compatible”) by charging people who already bought into you. To stay compatible? That’s your own job and you should subsidize it yourself.

I have no problem paying for subscriptions (let’s face it, Waves’ annual update is basically a subscription paid annually) if the company deserves it. I’d pay twice the amount per month on Kush’s plan—those plugs are a dream. But if I had purchased all of Kush’s plugs, THEN they started asking for 10/month to keep them… well, that’s exactly what Waves has done.


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## PeterN (Jul 5, 2021)

lancemontgomery said:


> I mean, all this would be different if they were like Adobe. Hate on Adobe all you want for their change to CC. But they release features and fixes just about every week. Waves was like: “hey all the big kids are moving to subscriptions—we can do it too!”
> 
> Sorry Waves, no. You are not the same as Adobe. You don’t release features, you just stay functional. Your annual “new version” is basically _*long-time-customer-subsidized relevancy*_. You keep yourselves relevant (read “compatible”) by charging people who already bought into you. To stay compatible? That’s your own job and you should subsidize it yourself.
> 
> I have no problem paying for subscriptions (let’s face it, Waves’ annual update is basically a subscription paid annually) if the company deserves it. I’d pay twice the amount per month on Kush’s plan—those plugs are a dream. But if I had purchased all of Kush’s plugs, THEN they started asking for 10/month to keep them… well, that’s exactly what Waves has done.



Can we be sure that you dont have to update the update plan also? In other words, even if you have the update plan done, maybe you have to update the update plan too? This could be a good business idea. Also, service very good when you update update plan. Did anyone read the T&Cs, of WUP, maybe theres a hidden note? It would be very depressing if you nicely pay the Waves update plan, but then have to update it too! 

(just jokin)


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## coolbass (Jul 8, 2021)

lancemontgomery said:


> I mean, all this would be different if they were like Adobe. Hate on Adobe all you want for their change to CC. But they release features and fixes just about every week. Waves was like: “hey all the big kids are moving to subscriptions—we can do it too!”
> 
> Sorry Waves, no. You are not the same as Adobe. You don’t release features, you just stay functional. Your annual “new version” is basically _*long-time-customer-subsidized relevancy*_. You keep yourselves relevant (read “compatible”) by charging people who already bought into you. To stay compatible? That’s your own job and you should subsidize it yourself.
> 
> I have no problem paying for subscriptions (let’s face it, Waves’ annual update is basically a subscription paid annually) if the company deserves it. I’d pay twice the amount per month on Kush’s plan—those plugs are a dream. But if I had purchased all of Kush’s plugs, THEN they started asking for 10/month to keep them… well, that’s exactly what Waves has done.


You have no clue...


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## doctoremmet (Jul 8, 2021)

For all the hate a lot of people seem to have for Waves’ “subscription antics” they do seem to do one thing right: make good sounding plugins. That can be bought for absolute bargain prices these days. Hell, even if you’re stupid enough to WUP for full price “every three years” or so, the total cost of ownership would be totally acceptable for the level of quality that you get for the buck.

So I truly do not get all the whining. If Waves sucked that much, why bother with all the comments, rants etc? Buy PA, Softube, Kush, UAD etc. If you STILL use Waves plugins and are on MacOS, you must KNOW by now that it may be a good idea to have your WUP / Waveshell versioning up to date, BEFORE committing to using any Waves plugins for that “urgent project on a deadline”. It’s not like WUP is a new thing, right?

So honestly, I get it if it’s not your thing. Either don’t buy into the ecosystem then, or abandon it. Problem solved. It’s not like there are no alternatives out there.


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## PeterN (Jul 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> For all the hate a lot of people seem to have for Waves’ “subscription antics” they do seem to do one thing right: make good sounding plugins. That can be bought for absolute bargain prices these days. Hell, even if you’re stupid enough to WUP for full price “every three years” or so, the total cost of ownership would be totally acceptable for the level of quality that you get for the buck.
> 
> So I truly do not get all the whining. If Waves sucked that much, why bother with all the comments, rants etc? Buy PA, Softube, Kush, UAD etc. If you STILL use Waves plugins and are on MacOS, you must KNOW by now that it may be a good idea to have your WUP / Waveshell versioning up to date, BEFORE committing to using any Waves plugins for that “urgent project on a deadline”. It’s not like WUP is a new thing, right?
> 
> So honestly, I get it if it’s not your thing. Either don’t buy into the ecosystem then, or abandon it. Problem solved. It’s not like there are no alternatives out there.


Heres an answer for you.

WE ARE FREE TO *CRITICISE* TOO.

Just discovered Mongoose for sale today 19USD. That will compensate the Vitamin plugins mono and stereo panning.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 8, 2021)

Of course you are. I just hate whiners 
Proceed!


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## PeterN (Jul 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Of course you are. I just hate whiners
> Proceed!


Its not whining or hate. Its consumer based criticism. 

YOU WILL HEAR IT


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## doctoremmet (Jul 8, 2021)

Here I was listening, go figure. Said what I wanted to say. Didn’t even have to use capitals to make my point. And now I’m off again. Cheers


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## kitekrazy (Jul 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> For all the hate a lot of people seem to have for Waves’ “subscription antics” they do seem to do one thing right: make good sounding plugins. That can be bought for absolute bargain prices these days. Hell, even if you’re stupid enough to WUP for full price “every three years” or so, the total cost of ownership would be totally acceptable for the level of quality that you get for the buck.
> 
> So I truly do not get all the whining. If Waves sucked that much, why bother with all the comments, rants etc? Buy PA, Softube, Kush, UAD etc. If you STILL use Waves plugins and are on MacOS, you must KNOW by now that it may be a good idea to have your WUP / Waveshell versioning up to date, BEFORE committing to using any Waves plugins for that “urgent project on a deadline”. It’s not like WUP is a new thing, right?
> 
> So honestly, I get it if it’s not your thing. Either don’t buy into the ecosystem then, or abandon it. Problem solved. It’s not like there are no alternatives out there.


Some fail to realize Waves had and still has a sub. WUP is not really a sub. They need to be like other developers and change their licensing.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 8, 2021)

They can do as they bloody well please as far as I am concerned. And so can consumers. It’s that simple


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> For all the hate a lot of people seem to have for Waves’ “subscription antics” they do seem to do one thing right: make good sounding plugins. That can be bought for absolute bargain prices these days. Hell, even if you’re stupid enough to WUP for full price “every three years” or so, the total cost of ownership would be totally acceptable for the level of quality that you get for the buck.
> 
> So I truly do not get all the whining. If Waves sucked that much, why bother with all the comments, rants etc? Buy PA, Softube, Kush, UAD etc. If you STILL use Waves plugins and are on MacOS, you must KNOW by now that it may be a good idea to have your WUP / Waveshell versioning up to date, BEFORE committing to using any Waves plugins for that “urgent project on a deadline”. It’s not like WUP is a new thing, right?
> 
> So honestly, I get it if it’s not your thing. Either don’t buy into the ecosystem then, or abandon it. Problem solved. It’s not like there are no alternatives out there.


I'm not whining, but merely frustrated with how I need to WUP just to make my OLD Waves plugins work (many are 15 - 20 years old already). I pay the WUP, and it's same old plugins, that's it. It really is just a form of ransom. I agree, if you don't like it, just move on. After many, many years....I have. There are much better options out there, and for the same "bargain" prices.


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## sostenuto (Jul 8, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I'm not whining, but merely frustrated with how I need to WUP just to make my OLD Waves plugins work (many are 15 - 20 years old already). I pay the WUP, and it's same old plugins, that's it. It really is just a form of ransom. I agree, if you don't like it, just move on. After many, many years....I have. There are much better options out there, and for the same "bargain" prices.


Same here, and not ransoming 13 or so cool plugs for $142. Lots of PA as well. (_all $29. specials_) 
Slowly persuaded toward Melda Production and rotating groups of 'specials'.


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## axb312 (Nov 10, 2021)

If one owns a bunch of waves plugins, is it possible to update only one and keep the rest functional?


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## rrichard63 (Nov 10, 2021)

axb312 said:


> If one owns a bunch of waves plugins, is it possible to update only one and keep the rest functional?


Yes. In the worst case, you can end up with different version numbers. That used to be a major headache to install and maintain. You still have to pay attention to the issue during installation, but it's doable now.


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## axb312 (Nov 10, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Yes. In the worst case, you can end up with different version numbers. That used to be a major headache to install and maintain. You still have to pay attention to the issue during installation, but it's doable now.


Thank you. Was thinking of updating Scheps Omni only...


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## P3TAAL (Sep 5, 2022)

easyrider said:


> I stopped using waves....the WUP is a con....the few I do have are activated to a USB drive to avoid this BS.


Are you saying if I activate to a USB drive I never have to worry about WUP???


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## dzilizzi (Sep 5, 2022)

P3TAAL said:


> Are you saying if I activate to a USB drive I never have to worry about WUP???


No. But WUP is only necessary if you have problems or want/need to upgrade. If you are on Windows, you rarely need to upgrade to a new version. It is just if you lose your authorizations on the computer, they will only fix it if you are current on your WUP. The USB authorization allows you to not only move between computers, but also not lose your authorization if something happens to your computer. It's like an iLok.


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## Henu (Sep 5, 2022)

That wasn't the case at least earlier- they have/had a "once a year for free"- recovery for a scenario like that. I used it once myself some years ago due to a broken wifi-adapter (.....) and it went really quick and without any costs.


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## dzilizzi (Sep 6, 2022)

Henu said:


> That wasn't the case at least earlier- they have/had a "once a year for free"- recovery for a scenario like that. I used it once myself some years ago due to a broken wifi-adapter (.....) and it went really quick and without any costs.


I think it is still somewhat available. I had my USB thumb drive die when I was out of WUP. They reset it for me because, in about 10 years of ownership of Waves products, it was the first time I asked. But the website indicates you need WUP to do it. I think they still do the once a year but don't advertise it. 

Also, if you upgrade your bundles, it resets the WUP. For years I did this. About once a year, they would have a really good bundle sale and I would upgrade and reset my WUP. Now I am at Mercury. I only WUP when there are a bunch of new stuff. I usually get it from www.everyplugin.com because they will give you a discount on the WUP. But I think you can now also get it at Audio Deluxe.


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## P3TAAL (Sep 7, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> No. But WUP is only necessary if you have problems or want/need to upgrade. If you are on Windows, you rarely need to upgrade to a new version. It is just if you lose your authorizations on the computer, they will only fix it if you are current on your WUP. The USB authorization allows you to not only move between computers, but also not lose your authorization if something happens to your computer. It's like an iLok.


Oh i see, thanks


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## Apina (Sep 8, 2022)

So, Battery 4 doesn't really work in my system and NI says the reason for this is Waves V12. They say Waves has fixed it with V14, but I have to pay 200-300€ to Waves (because of WUP) in order to get Battery working. Also, NI says I should contact Waves for support but you don't get any support from that company if you don't have WUP activated. I think this is totally unreasonable. The only chance is getting rid of Waves products totally.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 9, 2022)

Apina said:


> So, Battery 4 doesn't really work in my system and NI says the reason for this is Waves V12. They say Waves has fixed it with V14, but I have to pay 200-300€ to Waves (because of WUP) in order to get Battery working. Also, NI says I should contact Waves for support but you don't get any support from that company if you don't have WUP activated. I think this is totally unreasonable. The only chance is getting rid of Waves products totally.


Same here, but my answer is getting rid of Battery. (How NI can blame someone else's product for breaking theirs is beyond me.)


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## zvenx (Sep 9, 2022)

Apina said:


> So, Battery 4 doesn't really work in my system and NI says the reason for this is Waves V12. They say Waves has fixed it with V14, but I have to pay 200-300€ to Waves (because of WUP) in order to get Battery working. Also, NI says I should contact Waves for support but you don't get any support from that company if you don't have WUP activated. I think this is totally unreasonable. The only chance is getting rid of Waves products totally.


Hi, curious.
What does battery do or not do on your system?
Rsp


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## Apina (Sep 9, 2022)

zvenx said:


> Hi, curious.
> What does battery do or not do on your system?
> Rsp



All the knobs & buttons stopped working. So it's not possible to edit anything. There are a couple of threads on NI forum:









Battery 4.2.0 - suddenly, knobs/faders don't work


Hi!




community.native-instruments.com


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## zvenx (Sep 9, 2022)

Thanks.
rsp


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