# Cubase Pro 8.5.10 maintenance update now available



## Guillermo Navarrete (Feb 12, 2016)

Hello all, 

I am very pleased to announce the release of the 8.5.10 maintenance update for Cubase Pro 8.5 and Cubase Artist 8.5. The Hover Control design and operation has been improved for the MixConsole and related areas in the Inspector and Channel Settings window (in addition to the Inserts, EQ and Sends introduced with Cubase 8.5.0):

The update is now available for download from the Steinberg downloads website. For detailed information, please view the corresponding version history on the download page.

 Download Cubase Artist 8.5.10

 Download Cubase Pro 8.5.10

Best regards,
GN


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## Trombking (Feb 12, 2016)

I installed the update and I have problems with Berlin Strings sustain notes. They are playing forever when I don't change tracks....


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## PeterKorcek (Feb 12, 2016)

I was surprised to see that some of the fixes where for some serious issues:


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## chrysshawk (Feb 12, 2016)

I hope this is related to the VEP update which was also dropped yesterday....


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## tokatila (Feb 16, 2016)

And it's unstable for me. Cubase have crashed twice today just in the middle of playback. Take care when upgrading.

Edit- 
Make that thrice.


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## IFM (Feb 16, 2016)

Been very stable here luckily. Sure VCAs are broken but then again I've never seen the point to using them instead of groups.


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## chrysshawk (Feb 16, 2016)

VCAs can be pretty great in smaller projects. Really a shame and a disappointment that a year after the release of version 8, one of its main features still doesn't work - even after a paid upgrade to 8.5.


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## devonmyles (Feb 16, 2016)

No problems here, running very smooth.


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## Noam Guterman (Feb 16, 2016)

Hoped this update will fix the media bay rack crash when browsing through files, but it doesn't. I'm still using Cubase 8 because of it.


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## PeterKorcek (Feb 16, 2016)

chrysshawk said:


> VCAs can be pretty great in smaller projects. Really a shame and a disappointment that a year after the release of version 8, one of its main features still doesn't work - even after a paid upgrade to 8.5.



Hi, what is the problem with VCA faders currently?


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## chrysshawk (Feb 16, 2016)

They have the "slightly" annoying feature of randomly muting the tracks they are applied to. Unless one clicks and holds the VCA faders.


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Feb 17, 2016)

Hello,



PeterKorcek said:


> Hi, what is the problem with VCA faders currently?



The problem is: If you have audio tracks routed to a VCA and you use the mouse wheel to adjust the volume on one of those track they behave erratically.

The problem only starts when adjusting a fader using the mouse wheel.
Everything works fine: dragging faders, typing in a numerical value, moving faders on a EuCon controller all is fine, but as soon as you adjust a fader even once with the mouse wheel, the issue becomes apparent.

The workaround is obvious, until a fix arrives don't use the mousewheel, it is now on our list and has priority. I am sorry about this guys, I had hope in this update...

Best regards,
GN


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 17, 2016)

Guillermo, there's still other issues with the VCAs that aren't bugs exactly but really should be addressed - top of my list, an option to disable record arming across all VCA-linked tracks. Over a year on, any progress on that one? Cheers


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## IFM (Feb 17, 2016)

chrysshawk said:


> VCAs can be pretty great in smaller projects. Really a shame and a disappointment that a year after the release of version 8, one of its main features still doesn't work - even after a paid upgrade to 8.5.



I understand them but I still don't see how a group wouldn't offer the same thing with more processing options. I also wish companies wouldn't call them VCAs...there's nothing analog happening here. 
I'm glad you find them useful though and clearly enough people do to warrant their inclusion in Cubase.

Chris


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## Daryl (Feb 17, 2016)

Everything works fine? So you don't have this issue in Cubase then?

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=240&t=83381


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## chrysshawk (Feb 17, 2016)

@Dragonwind; I see where you're coming from. However, I recently did the Chris Lord Alge mixing course through Slate. Interestingly, he only used VCAs. It's a nice and simple way to keep track of things, and if every track is processed, additional processing might not have any point.


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## Ethos (Feb 17, 2016)

I can see how VCA faders could be useful for smaller projects. I can't imagine it being useful for larger ones, like orchestra.


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## Daryl (Feb 17, 2016)

Ethos said:


> I can see how VCA faders could be useful for smaller projects. I can't imagine it being useful for larger ones, like orchestra.


We use them all the time in Pro Tools, and we're actually using a proper orchestra, so I can't agree with your assessment.


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## Ethos (Feb 17, 2016)

Daryl said:


> We use them all the time in Pro Tools, and we're actually using a proper orchestra, so I can't agree with your assessment.


Hm... well then. Shows how much I know about VCA faders! 

Why do you prefer them over groups/buses?


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## Daryl (Feb 17, 2016)

Ethos said:


> Why do you prefer them over groups/buses?


It's really useful to have a dedicated fader to deal with groups of instruments, as well as families, so it's easy to ride the level of the strings, for example, by just grabbing the fader. How would you tend to do it with your usual workflow?


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## Ethos (Feb 17, 2016)

In a similar manner to that. I have all my group faders on my Avid Artist Mix and I ride them while mixing. I'm trying to figure out if there is anything substantially different between those two methods.


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## Daryl (Feb 17, 2016)

Ethos said:


> In a similar manner to that. I have all my group faders on my Avid Artist Mix and I ride them while mixing. I'm trying to figure out if there is anything substantially different between those two methods.


In order to use a group fader, don't you have to have everything, including the reverb return, routed to the group track?


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## IFM (Feb 17, 2016)

Daryl said:


> It's really useful to have a dedicated fader to deal with groups of instruments, as well as families, so it's easy to ride the level of the strings, for example, by just grabbing the fader. How would you tend to do it with your usual workflow?



I do that with a group. I see no difference.

Daryl mentioned aux sends but I use the verb as an insert on the group to get the right balance. Perhaps you are right if you use sends instead and that may be the one area they are useful.


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## Daryl (Feb 18, 2016)

Dragonwind said:


> I do that with a group. I see no difference.


Let's be clear about this. you are talking about Group tracks, right? Not linking?



Dragonwind said:


> Daryl mentioned aux sends but I use the verb as an insert on the group to get the right balance. Perhaps you are right if you use sends instead and that may be the one area they are useful.


Ah, well that won't work for me. Every instrument of the orchestra will have a different amount of send to a reverb, so just sticking it on a group track will destroy the balance and the mix.

The big snag with routing everything directly to the Group track is that you are basically turning the whole signal chain up or down. My needs are more subtle than that. For example:

If I am using a compressor on the reverb channel, I want to increase or reduce the amount sent to the reverb, not just turn the output up and down.
Similarly a hardware reverb reacts differently to an instrument, depending on what volume (as well as other things) is sent to it, so if I want things to be quieter, I want to send less to the reverb.


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## IFM (Feb 18, 2016)

Daryl said:


> Let's be clear about this. you are talking about Group tracks, right? Not linking?
> 
> 
> Ah, well that won't work for me. Every instrument of the orchestra will have a different amount of send to a reverb, so just sticking it on a group track will destroy the balance and the mix.
> ...



Correct I am not talking about linkining.

The mix is perfectly fine with groups. I run a number of different ones and even runs sends off of those. For example I have VSL winds going to a VSL winds group that has a verb insert. I use VSS inserted on the individual tracks for placement and the inserted verb does the rest of the work. The balance is set by the faders of each track as normal. It's also easier to maintain the wet/dry balance this way. 

Wet libraries get their own group etc. Those sub groups are then sent to main groups (Strings, Brass, etc.).


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## Daryl (Feb 18, 2016)

Dragonwind said:


> The mix is perfectly fine with groups.


I think you mean is perfectly fine for you. It's not for me. So VCA faders are useful for me, if not for you. That's also fine.


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## IFM (Feb 18, 2016)

Daryl said:


> I think you mean is perfectly fine for you. It's not for me. So VCA faders are useful for me, if not for you. That's also fine.


No I meant what I said. However not saying one is right or wrong. As long as the results you want are achieved who cares.


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## Harry (Feb 18, 2016)

Guillermo, going back to the "no sound with VCA faders" issue: how about the problem where there is no sound when automation is used, even when there are NO VCA faders used. The maintenance update document says nothing about this issue.


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Feb 19, 2016)

Hello,



Guy Rowland said:


> Guillermo, there's still other issues with the VCAs that aren't bugs exactly but really should be addressed - top of my list, an option to disable record arming across all VCA-linked tracks. Over a year on, any progress on that one? Cheers



That is a feature request and might take a while. It has been assigned but its status remains as opened, that is all I have. 



Harry said:


> Guillermo, going back to the "no sound with VCA faders" issue: how about the problem where there is no sound when automation is used, even when there are NO VCA faders used. The maintenance update document says nothing about this issue.



Yes, BON-14887 it was fixed with the Cubase Pro 8.5.10 update.

Best regards,
GN


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 19, 2016)

Thanks Guillermo. I think that kind of issue is exactly why those threads I started at the Steinberg forum gained so much traction, and why the community has been so disappointed with Steinberg's response with the online poll. To me, being forced to arm all tracks in a VCA group is positively embarrassing - it's not how people work with VCAs, typically. And it's a perfect example of what would seem to be a trivial request, technically (everything else, seemingly, can be selected or not with regard to VCAs).

Cubase is in dire need of a bug-fix and multiple small feature request consolidation period, but I'll confess I've given up thinking it will ever happen. Which saddens me - it's a competitive marketplace out there, and I want Cubase to remain at the top, something that seems increasingly unlikely now.


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## Harry (Feb 19, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Yes, BON-14887 it was fixed with the Cubase Pro 8.5.10 update.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> GN



Thanks for the clafication. The Update PDF states that the fix was only for "after the channel was connected to a VCA Fader". It would be better for the PDF to state that its also a fix when no VCA fader is connected, becuase that was also an issue.


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## lucor (Feb 19, 2016)

Guillermo, any ETA when we will finally get a fix for the disappearing Expression Maps when reactivating deactivated instrument tracks? I love Cubase, but it's a pretty gamebreaking bug that has been there since 2014 (!) and it still hasn't been dealt with....
Greatest piece of software I've ever owned, but the frequency of bug fixes and additions of new features is pretty laughable unfortunately, especially compared to DAW's like Reaper.


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## Lassi Tani (Feb 19, 2016)

This is the first time I get this: This Steinberg product does not support 'Basic and High Contrast Themes' on Windows operating systems.

I'm using the Aero theme. I tried to switch to switch between Aero and Classic themes, but no success. I just can't open Cubase.


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## Pablocrespo (Feb 20, 2016)

Guillermo, this VCA record arming has been talked about a lot in the steinberg forum, I don't see how it would be a feature request and not a bug (or poor implementation).

Can you tell me the logic of record arming all the tracks within a VCA Group? I was under the impression it was coming soon as a bug fix.


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Feb 23, 2016)

Hello,



lucor said:


> Guillermo, any ETA when we will finally get a fix for the disappearing Expression Maps when reactivating deactivated instrument tracks? I love Cubase, but it's a pretty gamebreaking bug that has been there since 2014 (!) and it still hasn't been dealt with....
> Greatest piece of software I've ever owned, but the frequency of bug fixes and additions of new features is pretty laughable unfortunately, especially compared to DAW's like Reaper.



It will be fixed on the Cubase Pro 8.5.20 maintenance update, which we still do not have a release date, but you can do the math  it usually takes 2 and a half months between releases, so if Cubase Pro 8.5.10 has just been released, well I assume (not promise) it will be in around two and a half months. 

Best regards,
GN


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Feb 23, 2016)

Hello again,



Guy Rowland said:


> Thanks Guillermo. I think that kind of issue is exactly why those threads I started at the Steinberg forum gained so much traction, and why the community has been so disappointed with Steinberg's response with the online poll. To me, being forced to arm all tracks in a VCA group is positively embarrassing - it's not how people work with VCAs, typically. And it's a perfect example of what would seem to be a trivial request, technically (everything else, seemingly, can be selected or not with regard to VCAs).
> 
> Cubase is in dire need of a bug-fix and multiple small feature request consolidation period, but I'll confess I've given up thinking it will ever happen. Which saddens me - it's a competitive marketplace out there, and I want Cubase to remain at the top, something that seems increasingly unlikely now.



We do in fact have a situation in which record arming is independent even with linked channels (unreliable because it doesn't always happen




)..
If the Preferences option "Enable Record on Selected (Audio/MIDI) Tracks" is engaged, and the Link Group Settings option "Selection" is _not_ engaged, then, _sometimes_, if you select just one channel of a linked group, then only _it_ will become record armed. other times, the whole Group gets record-armed anyways.
So, IMHO, something need to be looked at here in any case.

I wish I could tell you YES!!!!, it is going to be fixed in the next maintenance update, unfortunately I do not see that information. But it is on the list of Feature Request, tasks, story (in developers lingo), but please, keep posting about it all over the internet I am sure if you keep your personal campaign it will put pressure on it. 

Best regards,
GN


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## YuHirà (Feb 24, 2016)

> B-14529 PROJECT: Fixed an issue where double-clicking the Cubase project file did not load the project





This bug fix is enough to make me happy for the whole month :-D


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 24, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> I wish I could tell you YES!!!!, it is going to be fixed in the next maintenance update, unfortunately I do not see that information. But it is on the list of Feature Request, tasks, story (in developers lingo), but please, keep posting about it all over the internet I am sure if you keep your personal campaign it will put pressure on it.



Thanks for the candour regarding the current situation. However, I sense some irritation in your reply...

What, exactly, do you suggest customers do? It's on a list to be fixed at some stage. Maybe. No-one would knows this, because (aside from your own occasional comments which genuinely are appreciated), Steinberg never tells its customers what it is doing. Have they not seen the threads? Are they not aware? Do they think - in this case - it affects me and me alone? Well a great many other people here and elsewhere are frustrated by the same thing, and have added their voices - I take it from your comment that this is both irritating and pointless to Steinberg. Wonderful.

Guillermo - something is broken in the relationship and communication with Steinberg and its customers. Since all the hoopla about Steinberg listening and having an action plan in December, we've had one poll to fill out, which demonstrated fairly conclusively that Steinberg had not been listening at all as it didn't come close to addressing what pretty much everyone had been saying - it's all about consolidation, bug fixes, core efficiency, small workflow features not big shiny ones beloved by the marketing department. Since then, not even bug fix and feature requests at the Steinberg forum seem to have been commented on by anyone at Steinberg that I've noticed. And you guys wonder why the customers sometimes get a tad frustrated?

Again, your input here is greatly appreciated, you tell us far more than any other source of info and you seem straight up and honest. I wish that culture would permeate the whole company.

PS - the folks over at Cubasis have been doing a fine job lately, went out of their way to tell me a small but crucial workflow issue had been addressed in the latest update. There seems more engagement with customers all round on that subforum. If only that could spread to Cubase itself...

PS2 - glad to read that the de-activated tracks issues are slated for the next release, thanks.


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## Carles (Feb 24, 2016)

I agree 100% with guy.
Guillermo, is not about any conspiracy campaign, nor any anti-Steinberg thingy, it's simply that we are not happy with the Steinberg directions because we have actual issues and some of them are in there since the stone-age. Certainly looks like Steinberg do not prioritize at all solving the recurrent customers complaints.

I understand that you guys are very busy implementing new features and you have to stablish a priorities list, possibly overloaded and certainly doing your best. I also understand that the company needs to make money and to do that you have to develop features to justify that users will pay for "upgrades" (although some of those upgrades often do cause more issues than solutions) but never at the price of releasing unstable and non fully functional material.

Cubase is a professional software and in my opinion having a solid and stable platform comes first, that's clearly a must.
It really makes non sense to me that after paying for a couple upgrades I feel more confident using Cubase 7 than using 8.5 :S
I'm seriously considering, as much as I love Cubase to start looking for alternatives where I have not to waste my limited time trying to figure out a work around to the issues introduced in each new "upgrade".

Honestly, I'll be more than glad to pay for a next upgrade (i.e. Cubase 9) as follows:
New features: NONE
Improvements and fixes: (a large list here)

Carles


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## EvilDragon (Feb 25, 2016)

Carles said:


> Honestly, I'll be more than glad to pay for a next upgrade (i.e. Cubase 9) as follows:
> New features: NONE
> Improvements and fixes: (a large list here)



Unfortunately, that's unmarketable, so it probably won't ever happen. Effective marketing is ALWAYS about new stuff. Not "hey, we screwed things up in the last few versions so here's us fixing it all, but it's not for free".


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 25, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Unfortunately, that's unmarketable, so it probably won't ever happen. Effective marketing is ALWAYS about new stuff. Not "hey, we screwed things up in the last few versions so here's us fixing it all, but it's not for free".



I know that's the received wisdom, and I've absolutely no doubt it's true of Cubase's development. At some point, however, the system effectively breaks. Year on year of big new features, each one adding new bugs, and plenty of unintended consequences. And because the priority is neither to fix bugs or devote time to the boring - but spectacularly useful - little things, you end up every year with a net gain of problems, until we get where we are - where the overall performance has dropped markedly and the customers are just shouting STOOOOOOP!

My idea for Cubase 9 was the tag line "The Cubase YOU asked for". Nothing but bug fixes, core performance issues and a vast number small but significant feature additions. You could probably find 500 good ideas and unfixed bugs if you trawled round the Steinberg forums - even half of those would make one helluva powerhouse. You couldn't market JUST bug fixes - even I agree with that - but you could market that alternative.

For a brief moment there I thought it might happen - the Steinberg thread racked up masses of contributions, and Steinberg said "we hear you, we're putting a task force together". Unfortunately what they meant was "we'll give you a list of 16 big new feature ideas, which do you like the most?" Which was deeply depressing, and confirmed that we're stuck with this endless cycle of big and largely unnecessary features (hello VST Cloud), which eat all the development resources and means that every single year the program gets more and more frustrating to use.


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## Carles (Feb 25, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Unfortunately, that's unmarketable, so it probably won't ever happen. Effective marketing is ALWAYS about new stuff. Not "hey, we screwed things up in the last few versions so here's us fixing it all, but it's not for free".


Of course that won't happen. I'm not saying that I have the most minimum hope on that, just what I personally would be willing to pay for having a solid core so I could just... write some music?
I'm possibly using 10% of the Cubase features, essentially midi editing. I don't care at all about any of the new "flashing features" and I'd be happy if I could just ignore the features but having a not compromised core functionality, but is no the case. As per how I use Cubase, since V7 I had experienced no other than having more and more issues in each new version, to the extreme that working with Cubase is becoming a really annoying experience.
I regret not staying on version 7 or even better not leaving Cubase sooner and find an alternative, as I'm gathering more and more projects depending on Cubase on which I can not relay any more. But never is too late.
Thinking on the future and the need to have to revisit old projects I think I go to find an alternative and stop gathering more Cubase projects as it feels that at some point I'll be completely unable to do my work without investing more time to become an expert "workarounder" on their flaws than using that time for writing music.
They will of course keep ignoring the actual users needs in pro to keep their marketing structure, but meanwhile I'm going to try to find a more reliable platform, flashy or not but one in which I can rely and focus on writing music.


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Feb 26, 2016)

Hello,



Guy Rowland said:


> Thanks for the candour regarding the current situation. However, I sense some irritation in your reply...
> 
> What, exactly, do you suggest customers do? It's on a list to be fixed at some stage. Maybe. No-one would knows this, because (aside from your own occasional comments which genuinely are appreciated), Steinberg never tells its customers what it is doing. Have they not seen the threads? Are they not aware? Do they think - in this case - it affects me and me alone? Well a great many other people here and elsewhere are frustrated by the same thing, and have added their voices - I take it from your comment that this is both irritating and pointless to Steinberg. Wonderful.
> 
> ...



Yes, it is frustrating as well for me, each maintenance upgrade should fix issues and not bring new ones! I am as frustrated as you are, and I mean it when I say please keep it up, then I can gather all the comments and share them internally and make my point clear. Cubase will always have new features and this time we are giving our customers the chance to choose which ones they would like to have. 

Cubasis is a different thing because it is a different team in all aspects, development, product planning, marketing, etc... and it was developed from scratch, it is quite new and does not have as much lines of code as Cubase does.

Again, customers complain that we should not invest in more development and new features, but it has nothing to do with the team in charge of the core code of Cubase. 
You have to see it as a construction site, you have carpenters, electricians, plumbers etc... You don't put a plumber to build a dry wall, or an electrician to mix up cement, it doesn't work like that. In our case it looks like the electrician needs to improve.

Best regards,
GN


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## InLight-Tone (Feb 26, 2016)

If they fix the expression map issue and my disabled track template works without a hitch, I've got no complaints...


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 26, 2016)

Thanks for the reply, Guillermo, again much appreciated. To borrow your analogy, maybe the company just needs a few more electricians and a few less plumbers...

Anything you can tell us about this new Steinberg Solver initiative? Intriguing...


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 26, 2016)

^ what expression maps issue??


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 26, 2016)

givemenoughrope said:


> ^ what expression maps issue??



(presumably InLight means that they disappear on a track that's disabled, saved, reopened and re-enabled - there are other things that vanish when going through this procedure too, such as Quick Controls).


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 26, 2016)

This happens with Instrument tracks only, right? Not just regular old midi tracks? I only use the latter so I haven't noticed....


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## InLight-Tone (Feb 26, 2016)

Yes what Guy said. I have a large template, all individual instances of Kontakt, (all instrument tracks as I can't stand the midi spaghetti factory and I like having the mixer with each channel representing 1 instrument), all disabled, but expression maps don't reload when re-enabling. I have to push the reload button everytime. Not a deal killer, but a pain in the ass...


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