# An Orchestral Mockup, my 1000th post



## Herman Witkam (Aug 4, 2005)

This piece evolves around a violin/viola ostinato, while the low strings create the harmonic movement which is supported by some additional violins/violas. There are Irish Bagpipes in it too, using only the drones in the beginning.

Feedback is welcome of course. Thanks for listening!

"At the End of the Road"
http://www.herman-witkam.com/audio/at_the_end_of_the_road.mp3 (http://www.herman-witkam.com/audio/at_t ... e_road.mp3)


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## Marsdy (Aug 4, 2005)

Very nice Herman. There's a hint of Steve Reich in there which is fine by me!


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## synergy543 (Aug 4, 2005)

Nice balance and evolving dynamics! Very cohesive sound; it really works nice as a group. Fairly dry but it works well.

What strings are you using?


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## Herman Witkam (Aug 4, 2005)

Marsdy said:


> Very nice Herman. There's a hint of Steve Reich in there which is fine by me!



Thanks Dave. Yeah I like Reich's work a lot! Especially stuff like Different Trains and Electric Counterpoint.



synergy543 said:


> Nice balance and evolving dynamics! Very cohesive sound; it really works nice as a group. Fairly dry but it works well.
> 
> What strings are you using?



Thanks Greg. I'm using 5 overdubbed live performed violins, 3 live violas and the Sonic Implants Sordino Strings patch included in GS3. I have really soft violin section harmonics from GOS in it too. The live strings were recorded dry in mono and spaced apart with panning.

At some point I kept adding reverb to get the mix to sound bigger, but it didn't work. It just made the whole thing really muddy, and I didn't want to cut too much out of the reverb on the low-end, as I still want it to sound like a real space. So I decided to keep it like this.


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## synergy543 (Aug 4, 2005)

Herman Witkam said:


> Thanks Greg. I'm using 5 overdubbed live performed violins, 3 live violas and the Sonic Implants Sordino Strings patch included in GS3....


Ah ha! (In the back of my mind I was suspecting that) I wondered how you got such a tight sound. That really show the importance of what happens as players listen and respond to each other in a way we can't do with samples. 

Or can we? I can't place exactly what it is that's different but immediately the word "cohesive" came to mind and then I thought "that's a strange way to describe a sound" but that what it sounded like to me. So what is it? Timing? Tuning? Or something else?

....."and now you know the rest of the story"
(a popular American newscaster always says this)


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## Herman Witkam (Aug 5, 2005)

synergy543 said:


> Ah ha! (In the back of my mind I was suspecting that) I wondered how you got such a tight sound. That really show the importance of what happens as players listen and respond to each other in a way we can't do with samples.



Yeah. It was fun to record and if possible I'll use more live strings in the future. I recorded them with a Shure KSM44, and the sound went straight into the pre-amps of the Tascam FW1884, and into Cubase.



synergy543 said:


> Or can we? I can't place exactly what it is that's different but immediately the word "cohesive" came to mind and then I thought "that's a strange way to describe a sound" but that what it sounded like to me. So what is it? Timing? Tuning? Or something else?



It's a lot of subtle differences added up I guess, from soft breathing of the musician to bowing noise and resonance of adjacent strings and yeah, timing and tuning differences/errors too. I asked the violinist to over-empatize legato a bit, as I wanted it to mask the fact that the other strings are sampled.


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 5, 2005)

i really dig the sound of those strings...


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## Frederick Russ (Aug 5, 2005)

Strings really work - great ideas on getting the mono live strings to mesh with SISS and GOS. Some nice ideas in there Herman and congrats on your 1000th.


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## Niah (Aug 5, 2005)

I loved this piece Herman, very refreshing!

...and congrats on your 1000th post


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## Dr.Quest (Aug 5, 2005)

A sweet and beautiful piece.
Well done.
J


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## Thonex (Aug 5, 2005)

Nice composition Herman!!!!

I like it a lot... a great vibe... very suitable for a filmscore.

The real strings really make a difference.

My only critique would be that the hi string part that comes in around 1/2 way is a little too strident for me... I'm guessing this would be muted SI strings?

But I like where it took me and wanted to hear the next cue :D 

T


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## Herman Witkam (Aug 5, 2005)

Thanks guys!



Thonex said:


> My only critique would be that the hi string part that comes in around 1/2 way is a little too strident for me... I'm guessing this would be muted SI strings?
> 
> But I like where it took me and wanted to hear the next cue :D
> 
> T



Yeah that's the muted SI strings. I wanted to have some volume raise there, to get to some sort of climax. I guess I got carried away a bit with the levels of the SI violins


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## lux (Aug 7, 2005)

nice cue Herman,

liked expecially the overall musical sense.

Agree about the levels thing.

keep keep

Luca


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## Herman Witkam (Aug 7, 2005)

lux said:


> nice cue Herman,
> 
> liked expecially the overall musical sense.
> 
> ...



hehe thanks Luca


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## piernick (Aug 8, 2005)

Nice work Herman,
i know all problem when you are recording live players on the sampled orchestra i had the same problem, but your cue rocks.
Just an impression: at different points strings seems has some match problems..i don't know...

i really like the dinamics and the mood (i find some Kronos Quartet idea


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## Herman Witkam (Aug 10, 2005)

piernick said:


> Nice work Herman,
> i know all problem when you are recording live players on the sampled orchestra i had the same problem, but your cue rocks.
> Just an impression: at different points strings seems has some match problems..i don't know...
> 
> i really like the dinamics and the mood (i find some Kronos Quartet idea



Thanks Piernicola,

Can you describe what you mean by match problems?


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 10, 2005)

Congrats on your 1000th, may there be another 10.000 from you

I really like the colours of this composition, it breaks away from traditional harmony which has been bombarding my ears for the last months.

Keep it up Herman! You really do know how to tackle many genres 8)


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## synergy543 (Aug 10, 2005)

Hey Herman, I sent you a PM.


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## Rob Elliott (Aug 11, 2005)

Hermann - very nice. Reminds us how 'far' string samples have to go to create this sound :( 

The first thing I notice about real vlns is that the upper range still sounds 'beefy'. It seems with most sample libraries, I find myself avoiding the upper ranges as they tend to get 'tinny' and 'thin' to these ears. Is there an EQ solution without giving the sound an audio labotomy  

Rob


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 11, 2005)

Beautiful Herman, just beautiful. Thanks for sharing. 

PS: How does it end?


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## Herman Witkam (Aug 11, 2005)

Thanks guys!

Theo - yeah, I use the violins/violas ostinato as a modal center which the piece evolves around, which is a really fun way of composing for me.

Rob - I recorded these strings around 1 meter from the microphone, which is one with a very "flat" sound, so it sounds pretty neutral. I didn't have to do any EQ-ing on them, except for the low-cut filter on the mic itself that cuts out everything below 100 Hz. Normally when violins lack body you could try to add some low-mid frequencies (around 200-300 Hz), but it can actually work better to decrease the thin sound by cutting a few dB's around 5000-7000 Hz.

Ned - I don't know yet. I just faded it out because I didn't want a cadense or some cheesy major triad :wink:


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## Rob Elliott (Aug 11, 2005)

Thanks Herman for the tip. I have tried the boost at around 200-300 and I have to be careful as it can get a little boxy. I'll try the cut at 5-7K - that's sound like a good idea. Thanks again.

Rob


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 11, 2005)

You could just end it by gradually losing all the instruments excepts for a sustained harmonic. That or a big BANG, like the ones in the Hollywood trailers... :lol:


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## Herman Witkam (Aug 11, 2005)

Rob Elliott said:


> Thanks Herman for the tip. I have tried the boost at around 200-300 and I have to be careful as it can get a little boxy. I'll try the cut at 5-7K - that's sound like a good idea. Thanks again.
> 
> Rob



Yeah - the lowmids can easily make your mix muddy. You could also go for a combination of a little cut at 5-7 Khz and a little boost around 240.



Ned Bouhalassa said:


> You could just end it by gradually losing all the instruments excepts for a sustained harmonic. That or a big BANG, like the ones in the Hollywood trailers... :lol:



Doesn't it usually start with the big bang :D 

But yeah - I got Stormdrum since a couple of months so I might try that one out. Losing all the instruments could be an idea to consider too, but it would probably turn out like a slow fadeout...Thanks for the tips :wink:


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 12, 2005)

Nice Herman,

Man a thousand posts....it will take me weeks to get there....hope fully longer.

Nice piece. I am going to mirror the thoughts of others on this, love the live strings. At the halfway point, what if you brought down the SI strings and added a solo vi (a good sampled one) on top to thin out SI's texture. What makes the piece work so well at the beginng is the small string section§y’1   I Š ,J9212ad48 671610945465861a8594a8.jpg  ;@÷ú¨y{0 @ I ",J9212ad48 671610945465861a8594a8.jpg


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## José Herring (Aug 12, 2005)

Nice work. I really like the overall sound. Not fully live and not fully sampled. Somehow it manages to sound new in spite of some quite traditional harmonic movement.

How do you like the Tascam interface? I'm trying to decided between that and the Presonus Firebox.

Jose


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## gamalataki (Aug 12, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Somehow it manages to sound new in spite of some quite traditional harmonic movement.
> Jose



I've noticed that most of Hermans music has that, often elusive, individual quality. Call it style or whatever you want, but I know when he posts something it's not going to be more of the same ol orchestra emulations and I personally am enjoying the direction he's taking. Keep it up HW!!

I wonder if living in a country with 14th century castles is more inspiring than say, LA??? Invite me so I can evaluate :lol:


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## Herman Witkam (Aug 12, 2005)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Nice Herman,
> 
> Man a thousand posts....it will take me weeks to get there....hope fully longer.
> 
> Nice piece. I am going to mirror the thoughts of others on this, love the live strings. At the halfway point, what if you brought down the SI strings and added a solo vi (a good sampled one) on top to thin out SI's texture. What makes the piece work so well at the beginng is the small string section, so why not keep it there. A solo vi will thin out SI and hopefully keep your sections sounding a little more the same.



Thanks Craig - that's a great idea. I'll definitely try that. I might even try to get the violin player to play it live for me. My current solo violin library consists only of Xsample and a demo from Composer's Choice.



josejherring said:


> Nice work. I really like the overall sound. Not fully live and not fully sampled. Somehow it manages to sound new in spite of some quite traditional harmonic movement.
> 
> How do you like the Tascam interface? I'm trying to decided between that and the Presonus Firebox.
> 
> Jose



Thanks Jose - The FW1884 is great! Clean mic pre-amps, quality converters and good drivers. Since I'm into "hands on" mixing I really like the well-constructed motor faders too. I think the Prosonus is in a lower pricerange, and it doesn't have the DAW controller built-in. So if you don't need one and don't do that much recordings you could go for the Presonus.


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## synergy543 (Aug 12, 2005)

gamalataki said:


> I wonder if living in a country with 14th century castles is more inspiring than say, LA??? Invite me so I can evaluate :lol:


Hmmm....maybe that would explain why the sensitive new age guy comes out in my music as I watch bambi wandering around and the squirrels frolicking in the trees. 

Maybe I need to see a cougar maul some critters to explore the more dynamic side of myself.


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## Herman Witkam (Aug 12, 2005)

gamalataki said:


> josejherring said:
> 
> 
> > Somehow it manages to sound new in spite of some quite traditional harmonic movement.
> ...



You're welcome of course :wink: 

Thanks for the encouraging remarks Scott!


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