# How to approach this Film Project



## Rob Elliott (Nov 30, 2005)

Hi there,

Have a new film project that I am going after hot and heavy (it is a romantic comedy but very well shot - sort of artsy...)

I have sent the Director some theme ideas (feel based on the 'temp score' he used.) The temp music was largely from the film "About Schmidt"

Here's his email back to me.



*Rob, 

Thanks for sending me the samples. I really like your work. I'm very open to a radical treatment for the score, and in fact would prefer something a bit unusual. I think our temp score works fine, but I think that the film would be stronger with less conventional music. Any ideas?*




The 20,000 question. The words 'radical treatment' - 'bit unusual' - 'less conventional'. What tree is he barking up :? 

The samples i sent him were simple piano only sketches playing the themes. He has heard my other orchestral stuff. He may like the sample but he is looking for something else.

This is a 2 million independent film that actually has some 'real actors' in it. I am getting the feeling from my conversations with him and this email he wants some personal identity with this film.

The temp score "About Schmidt" was something I could sink my teeth in (simple but very hooky themes throughout). With this new request, I feel like I am in a darkened room asked to shoot at a target, turn the lights on - if I missed then I would have to turn the lights off again, shoot (repeat ad infinum).

Any suggestions from our members here? What would be the right questions to ask back?

Many thanks in advance (I really want this gig).


Rob


Rob


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## PaulR (Nov 30, 2005)

Less conventional may be the key words there Rob. Could mean in terms of orchestration used and left field themes i.e. with a slightly quirky nature.

That's a good email to get back I think Rob - the director has actually asked you a question.

I suggest that you email back with your own questions immediately - find out what less conventional means - could mean anything to different people. Hope you get this gig.


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 30, 2005)

PaulR said:


> Less conventional may be the key words there Rob. Could mean in terms of orchestration used and left field themes i.e. with a slightly quirky nature.
> 
> That's a good email to get back I think Rob - the director has actually asked you a question.
> 
> I suggest that you email back with your own questions immediately - find out what less conventional means - could mean anything to different people. Hope you get this gig.




Thanks Paul for the fast reply. I think the 'left field themes' is really important. I love coloring outside of the lines :D (use to drive my mom nuts though.)

Anyone else have any comments suggestions?


Rob


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## Evan Gamble (Nov 30, 2005)

listen to Jon Brion's "Eternal Sunshine" and "I Heart Huckabees"
even Hans Zimmer's "the Weatherman"
Lots of old film noire music Bernard Hermann

Modern Avant Garde Concert mUsic such as
Eric Ewazen
http://www.soundsbydiego.com/compositions.html
"Caged" by Dan Maske
Stefan Freund
http://www.stevenbryant.com/librs5tet.php

Basically I would think of Smaller unique ensembles, such as the ones above.
THis will also keep your budget down. ANd give it a unique sound.

Your best bet is to take ideas from the concert stage that have yet to be truely applied to film. THat is what DOn Davis did with the matrix, using JOhn Adams as a model and made it his own.

Congragulations on the gig this could be your break through one, hope you get it! :D


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 30, 2005)

Hi Evan,

Yes Jon Brion (bit of an acquired taste) is a good example. I'll check out the other one as well.


Thanks again.


Rob


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## Thonex (Nov 30, 2005)

Rob,

What you need to do is ask the Director to give you an example of some movies that he thinks have less conventional scores that he likes. Otherwise, you could end up fishing for weeks.

Good luck.

T


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## PaulR (Nov 30, 2005)

Evan Gamble said:


> l
> Lots of old film noire music Bernard Hermann



That would be a great idea normally. Unfortunately, Herrmann didn't actually do any film noire.


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## Evan Gamble (Nov 30, 2005)

to be honest i dsont know what film "NOIRE" means :wink: 

I thought it was just old :lol:


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## Alex W (Nov 30, 2005)

Good advice dudes.

I'd say your best bet is to still think thematically. In my experience when someone says "I want it to be unique" it either means they aren't 100% keen on the ideas you've sent them, or they might think it sounds a bit cliche. 

The bottom line is you gotta write a killer theme that they will have no choice but to like, and in the meantime try and incorporate something gimmicky - a signature sound, a quirky instrument or some strange FX - any kind of unusual idea that ties into the theme of the film and works musically. Then it's just a matter of selling the idea to the director. (for 1 million dollars)

It's hard to be innovative at the drop of a hat, but you're a talented bloke, I reckon you'll do it. Best o' luck. :wink:


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## Ed (Nov 30, 2005)

Maybe you could check out I Am Sam score, but John Powell. Thats pretty different.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 30, 2005)

It's "film noir" :wink: 

It doesn't sound like you should get into too dark of a mood here Rob...
As suggested above, time to ask the director for references.

You don't want to be of target tooo many times in this situation :shock: 

Best of luck with the project!


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## PaulR (Nov 30, 2005)

Evan Gamble said:


> to be honest i dsont know what film "NOIRE" means :wink:
> 
> I thought it was just old :lol:



It's an 'old' genre - that is sometimes unconventionally revisted in a contempory way these days - rarely works though, because that particular style was akin to the late 40's/early/mid 50's and all that went with it. Particular emphasis on America (especially RKO) and also France. A good example might be The Asphalt Jungle. Think Robert Mitchum or Robert Ryan for instance.

Noire in this genre simply means dark - dark, shadowy filmic techniques. Some of the greatest films ever made. Not a lot of cgi though. :wink:


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## Thonex (Nov 30, 2005)

I once had a director ask me for something "Psycho Classical"!!!!!! No Lie!!

What a fiasco that project was :? 

T


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## choc0thrax (Nov 30, 2005)

Film noire and cgi...that would be Sin City.


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## PaulR (Nov 30, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> Film noire and cgi...that would be Sin City.



Haven't seen that yet - is it any good?


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## Alex W (Nov 30, 2005)

PaulR said:


> choc0thrax said:
> 
> 
> > Film noire and cgi...that would be Sin City.
> ...



it's *awesome*.


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 30, 2005)

Great ideas guys, thanks- now do NOT laugh. These are the 'sketches' I sent him. One maybe two passes on the piano - fixed the obvious flubs. Very rough theme ideas.

If you think it wise perhaps I take these piano ditties and arrange them for a quirky quartet (accordion, bassoon, harmonica and viola - whatever :shock: - I don't know - something unique.

Should I just start over and go more to 'left field'.


http://www.robelliottmusic.com/mp3s/Romantic/Her%20Touch.mp3 (http://www.robelliottmusic.com/mp3s/Rom ... 0Touch.mp3)


http://www.robelliottmusic.com/mp3s/Romantic/Motion%20to%20You.mp3 (http://www.robelliottmusic.com/mp3s/Rom ... %20You.mp3)




Rob


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## Ed (Nov 30, 2005)

PaulR said:


> Noire in this genre simply means dark - dark, shadowy filmic techniques. Some of the greatest films ever made. Not a lot of cgi though. :wink:



Noire also _literally _means black, in French :wink: 

Ed


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## Alex W (Nov 30, 2005)

Rob Elliott said:


> Great ideas guys, thanks- now do NOT laugh. These are the 'sketches' I sent him. One maybe two passes on the piano - fixed the obvious flubs. Very rough theme ideas.
> 
> If you think it wise perhaps I take these piano ditties and arrange them for a quirky quartet (accordion, bassoon, harmonica and viola - whatever :shock: - I don't know - something unique.
> 
> ...



Cool ideas, Rob. For some reason I have the urge to say "run forest, run."  (j/k)

I also like your idea of a "quirky quartet." Perhaps mixing that with some wierd electronic beats too, some blips and bleeps here n there. Etc.


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## José Herring (Nov 30, 2005)

Is he absolutely insisting on another demo? 

It might be possible to close the deal right now by agreeing with him that his project is unique and special and that it deserves a unique and special aproach and of course you can do that.

Then when you're working on it take a look at the film and you'll know what it needs then. I think a lot of times you'll end up going back and forth for eons in the end he'll not think that you know what you're doing. But if you approach it from the stand point that you already know what his film needs then you'll come across with confidence.

Chances are he just wants you to treat his film with love and care and not with a standard cut and paste aproach. 

Of course you have to feel it out but feel it out from the perspective that you can deliver what he wants no matter what that is. And trust me, chances are that unique and wierd to him is more commercial than it would be to a trained musician.

I did a gig for a lady that wanted something "unique" for her film. To her that meant Mozart, Kurt Weill with a little um pa Tom Waits style pump organ. Not exactly on the unique side from my perspective.


Jose


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 30, 2005)

Good advice Jose - I feel the same. Lock the deal and then deliver  

Alex - that is sooooooo funny. Just so happens I have coincidently watch a lot of Alan Silvestri films of late - (need to go live in a isolated cube - wait a minute I do - my studio :? 


I am going to just start over give him a 60 second quirkly, thinly arranged, air around the instruments, blimp and beaps, ....

I have to admit - I am excited about the challenge. I also agree that if I can get the size of the instrumentation (and actual instruments used right) =- BUT also get a theme he wants to 'marry' I'll be in a good position.

He likes his last composer but I think he thinks he is too sappy - middle of the road.

Thanks to everyone for the great advice.


Rob


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## Alex W (Nov 30, 2005)

good luck dude, looking forward to hear the results


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 30, 2005)

Ed said:


> PaulR said:
> 
> 
> > Noire in this genre simply means dark - dark, shadowy filmic techniques. Some of the greatest films ever made. Not a lot of cgi though. :wink:
> ...



It's *noir :roll: *

In France, this was for dark thrillers, with non happy endings :twisted:


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## Ed (Nov 30, 2005)

> [Patrick de Caumette]
> It's *noir :roll: *


* 

ALRIGHT BLOODY HELL. :D I took the word from Pauls post, I then put it in Babel Fish which translated it to "black" (just to make sure), so there. So its Pauls and Babe Fish's fault. 

Ed*


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 30, 2005)

Guys - Patrick's last name is NOT Irish :lol: - he's probably right :wink: 

Rob


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 30, 2005)

It just hurts me when you guys stampede on such an elegant, superior langage! 8) :wink:


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 30, 2005)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> It just hurts me when you guys stamped on such an elegant, superior langage! 8) :wink:



Oh yea - the ONLY thing superior about it is when your wife speaks it too you in soft low tones :shock: :wink: 

--Of course she may be telling me about her new boyfriend :( 


Rob


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## José Herring (Nov 30, 2005)

Noir is Beautiful. Peace. \/ 8)


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## José Herring (Nov 30, 2005)

Rob Elliott said:


> Patrick de Caumette said:
> 
> 
> > It just hurts me when you guys stamped on such an elegant, superior langage! 8) :wink:
> ...



Yeah. I like it when she does that.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 30, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Rob Elliott said:
> 
> 
> > Patrick de Caumette said:
> ...



*YO!* leave my wife out of this or else you might found out about the true meaning of film NOIR:
"composer found dead, had attempted to swallow his 21' flat screen monitor, suicide probable cause..."
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 30, 2005)

Har Har - what was your address there in Southern Calif? :twisted: 


Rob


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## Alex W (Nov 30, 2005)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> josejherring said:
> 
> 
> > Rob Elliott said:
> ...



Crikey Patrick! You're one scary mofo!!


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## jc5 (Nov 30, 2005)

Sacre bleu, les anglophones... :roll: :wink:


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## José Herring (Nov 30, 2005)

Rob Elliott said:


> Har Har - what was your address there in Southern Calif? :twisted:
> 
> 
> Rob



Check your wife's rolodex.  

Okay last one. But you guys are making yourselves easy targets. :D 

8)


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## PaulR (Dec 1, 2005)

Yeah - I like those two excerpts Rob - very much in your style. Difficult to say in terms of music to visuals naturally. Look forward to hearing them simply orchestrated of course.

Now.... [with my left hand rubbing my left temple and in soft, dulcet tones]

Ed - you're making my head hurt.


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## Rob Elliott (Dec 1, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Rob Elliott said:
> 
> 
> > Har Har - what was your address there in Southern Calif? :twisted:
> ...



:wink:


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