# Setting up a good template



## hbuus (Oct 20, 2008)

What's the best way of setting up a default template?
How have you set up yours?

Thanks.

Best regards,
Henrik


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## Hannes_F (Oct 20, 2008)

This is what I did:

- learnt sequencing and mixing with GPO and Altiverb
The result is limited by default but it is an excellent exercise to get the basics down. One could start with Kirk Hunter or EWQLSO silver but maybe the danger would be bigger to get stuck with that because it can sound already 'too good' and maybe at that state you don't accumulate the energy for going much further. I am still happy about having had a hard time at the beginning and developed quite a bunch of sequencing tricks in that time. Give me a one velocity layer sustain sample of any instrument plus Kontakt and I can do quite a lot with that.

Once that was done
- listening to every demo of the more expensive libraries carefully
- on that basis buying everything the budget allows. In my orchestra are EWQLSO Plat XP, Sonivox Strings, Appassionata Strings, GOS, SAM Brass and Solo Brass, Kirk Hunter, Wallander Brass and Winds, Siedlazcek String Essentials, some VSL single instrument downloads.
- auditioning all instruments one by one
- deciding which to take from where according to their strengths and regarding the music type
- augmenting it with live tracks at the points where I had to admit that libraries still don't cut it yet


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## hbuus (Oct 20, 2008)

Hannes, that is a lot of good advice, thanks.

How about the "default song" that you have set up for yourself, what does that look like? I mean: Which articulations do you load into your computer as default - as a starting point to create a new piece?

I'm wondering how exactly I should set up my deò–   ˆï‘–   ˆï’–   ˆï“–   ˆï”–   ˆï•–   ˆï––   ˆï—–   ˆï˜–   ˆï™–   ˆïš–   ˆï›–   ˆïœ–   ˆï–   ˆïž–   ˆïŸ–   ˆï –   ˆï¡–   ˆï¢–   ˆï£–   ˆï¤–   ˆï¥–   ˆï¦–   ˆï§–   ˆï¨–   ˆï©–   ˆïª–   ˆï«–   ˆï¬–   ˆï­–   ˆï®–   ˆï¯–   ˆï°–   ˆï±–   ˆï²–   ˆï³–   ˆï´–   ˆïµ–   ˆï¶–   ˆï·–   ˆï¸–   ˆï¹–   ˆïº–   ˆï»–   ˆï¼–   ˆï½–   ˆï¾–   ˆï¿–   ˆïÀ–   ˆïÁ–   ˆïÂ–   ˆïÃ–   ˆïÄ–   ˆïÅ–   ˆïÆ–   ˆïÇ–   ˆïÈ–   ˆïÉ–   ˆïÊ–   ˆïË–   ˆïÌ–   ˆïÍ–   ˆïÎ–   ˆïÏ–   ˆïÐ–   ˆïÑ–   ˆïÒ–   ˆïÓ–   ˆïÔ–   ˆïë–   ˆïì–   ˆïí–   ˆïî–   ˆïï–   ˆïð–   ˆïñ–   ˆïò–   ˆïó–   ˆïô–   ˆïõ–   ˆïö–   ˆï÷–   ˆïø–   ˆïù–   ˆïú–   ˆïû–   ˆïü–   ˆïý–   ˆïþ–   ˆïÿ–   ˆð –   ˆð–   ˆð–   ˆð–   ˆð–   ˆð–   ˆð–   ˆð–   ˆð–   ˆð	–   ˆð
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## bluejay (Oct 20, 2008)

Oh, another quick recommendation, build up useful multis in Kontakt.

For instance I have a quick and easy "strings" multi which gives me 5 instrument banks (Vi 1, Vi 2, Va, Vc, CB) each loaded with 2 or 3 articulations. 

This is obviously a little more flexible than a complete template and can be used to swap out one thing for another quickly.

For me, I never actually create "templates" in Cubase. I tend to go back to previous projects and just use them as starting points. I rarely use the exact same instruments twice anyway.

Even similar arrangements might use completely different collections. If I want to create orchestral music sounding like Goldsmith or Williams then I might use one sound, for Elfman/Zimmer a completely different set of libraries. One set of strings might sound way better when combined with huge percussion, heavy synths and electric guitars.

Anyway, the advice given so far is really great.


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## hbuus (Oct 20, 2008)

I keep getting amazed at how kind people are on this forum.
It's a privilege to be able to ask questions and then get answers from people like you, who are experienced with creating orchestral music.
Thanks!

A little about my setup:

- Quad Core 2,4 GHz pc with 4 GB ram running Windows XP 

I have XP64 also, but haven't installed it, as I only have 4 GB ram at the moment anyway.

- Cubase 4
- Kontakt 3
- The full Sonivox Symphonic Library incl. their harp
- KHSO Emerald
- Project SAM True Strike 1
- The Trumpet
- Cinesamples Glissandi
- various synth VSTi's

For reverb I use Peter Roos' IRs (Samplicity) with Voxengo Pristine Space.

For starters I will restrict myself to using the Sonivox stuff.
That is not really much of a restriction though, as the library sounds phenomenal.

Anyway, Sonivox contains keyswitched instruments, but I've never used them.
Why do keyswitched instruments take up less memory?

Great advice here - lots of stuff to think about and try out.

Best regards,
Henrik


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## mikebarry (Oct 20, 2008)

I suggest setting up many templates:

For example:

I have a "Chase" template
a "Sappy" template
an ethnic "template"

etc... saves loads of time


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## JohnG (Oct 20, 2008)

hbuus @ 20th October 2008 said:


> I keep getting amazed at how kind people are on this forum.



Well, with a photo featuring hair like that, we are all very concerned about you.


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## Mahlon (Oct 20, 2008)

Henrik,

_*[EDIT] I see that many people have responded since I am so slow....*_

But just two more cents....
Those articulations look like a good starting point and would cover almost all of your needs for a piece where the oboes are featured prominently. If you're writing an orchestral piece usually you can get away with less articulations because the instruments are less exposed -- unless there is a naked solo line, of course. And also you can double instruments like two solo oboes to make the section, as in real life. Ensemble or section patches sometimes have just the right sound, so I do always include the _very_ basic articulations for those sections at least.

A template has everything to with the kind, size, style, and orchestration of the piece you are writing. So you will end up with many templates over time. 

Devising a template, from my experience, is something which is done over a period of time and compositions. I'll always start out with what I think I need (as you have -- and that's the only way to start), but the template is constantly refined with each piece until it reaches a stable form. I generally save and name the templates with a suffix of "ver. 01, ver. 02, ver 02a", etc. etc. And then I have a note attached to my sequence/midi file denoting which version it was I used.

Good luck!
How is Denmark? o-[][]-o I want to see this great country! I've never been. :( 

Mahlon


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## hbuus (Oct 20, 2008)

JohnG @ Mon Oct 20 said:


> hbuus @ 20th October 2008 said:
> 
> 
> > I keep getting amazed at how kind people are on this forum.
> ...



Heh! :D


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## madbulk (Oct 20, 2008)

Keyswitches may or may not take up less memory, it's not a big deal in this regard. It's mostly about how you want to work and how you like to see things. 

So far I've preferred to see the parts jumping from articulation track to track. It's a lot more tracks to look at which is a pain, but then, well, there's more to see. That's the how you like the see things part.

The how you like to work part has more to do with how you get the notes in there. Personally, I just put the notes in either by playing them on any ole articulation or painstakingly with a mouse and move them around to the right articulation tracks. I can easily see moving toward playing it all in and hitting switches on the fly, but it's not how I work presently.


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## PolarBear (Oct 20, 2008)

I'd also like to suggest to search/browse a bit through older topics about topics, the main motivations should remain the same. I'm not yet a big fan of templates because I do need every MB availible for playing articulations... so I also load strings staccatos or legatos on the fly as I see fit. Sometimes older projects in the same vein are a good starting point, but then I don't know which tracks to delete first... But I do have some time for composing (well I wish I had) and am not working on deadlines.


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## synthetic (Oct 20, 2008)

I don't like keyswitches because you have to rewind far back enough to have the keyswitch fire again. If you use a MIDI controller, that follows the sequence so you can play back from anywhere. 

I have a few instruments using the mod wheel to switch between articulations, but four is about the most you can do with this system. (All the way down and up, slightly down and up). When you go to 5 it gets difficult to hit the right one in performance. Three is easy. This is easy to do in GigaStudio 3 or 4 or in Vienna Instruments. I'm not sure if Kontakt allows you to use a controller as a layer switch but I'm sure there's a way. 

Also, use a 64-bit system if possible. I'm able to load just about everything in the Sonic Implants and Project SAM collection plus Vienna Appasionata Strings in GS4 with 6GB of RAM.


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## PoppaJimmy (Oct 20, 2008)

Another question regarding creating templates. I would like opinions on the following method which I am just beginning to experiment with:

FYI: I'm using 3 computers:

1. Custom DAW PC, XP Pro, 4GB RAM (3Gb switch enabled) for sequencing which has Sibelius 5 and Sonar 7 Producers (and some other stuff).

2. Custom DAW PC XP Pro 64, 8gigs RAM, etc. with Kontakt 3 and a bunch of libraries (computer optimized for K3).

3. Custom DAW PC XP Pro, 4 GB RAM with GS 3 (GS 4 available) and more libraries (no 3GB switch, GS doesn't like it).

I also have a laptop which can be used as part of the network when needed.

I always score large pieces in Sibelius, (long time arranger/orchestrator), because this is the most comfortable way for me to write. I can then Export to MIDI and open the file in Sonar 7 then tweak from there without having to play these huge orchestrations (I'm OK on keyboard but, only that, OK). Since MIDI controller commands can easily be entered into an original Sibelius file, I can quickly enter any key switches, bank and program changes, etc., right into the original score. After a time, this just feels like it would adding any other articulations to the score such as dynamics or playing techniques and only takes a little extra time (I've tried it).

I recently created a basic set of six Template Banks in Kontakt3. One bank is Woodwinds, one is Brass, two are Percussion, one is Strings. The Rhythm Section instruments are all separate. Each Bank, of course, has 128 slots (aka programs or patches). Within the bank I have grouped articulations from multiple libraries. In each slot I have a different instrument or articulation. In the Strings bank I have Sonivox with a bunch of articulations, followed by Garritan, followed by VSL. This is all in just one big K3 Bank. I have done the same with each of the main orchestral sections. So in any bank there might be 40, 50, or even a lot more instruments. These are not individual samples but full sets of a particular articulation or even a Keyswitch instrument.

I have already tried using these just to see if the program changes work, and they did, after a bit of tweaking. The key is making sure that Sib., Sonar, and K3 all use the appropriate program numbers (they don't use the same system).

So, if I have a Violin I line, I can open the MIDI file and all the patch changes (or key switches, etc.) are already in the score and they just play the appropriate samples. If I want to mix libraries (which I do) I can duplicate the Vln1 line in Sibelius and write the appropriate patch numbers into the score. That way, when I open the MIDI file in Sonar, I automatically have the three Vln 1 lines with the appropriate program changes already done. K3 can play, for example, the same melody line but use three different libraries which I can modify any way I want.

The main thing is, theoretically, it means I won't have to have a zillion channels/tracks for each instrument. Also, once an arrangement is played a couple of times, I can always purge the unused samples if I need more space. That way, again theoretically, I could load a pretty large score, onto the sampling computers, if needed. Of course, this method saves processing power on the Sequencing computer since it doesn't have the samples

Obviously, there are issues with musicality in the playing, scripts and the thousand other things involved in mock-ups but, this thread is specifically about templates. 

I've only done basic experimenting so far, just enough to see that it all works, which it does. I want to know if anyone else has tried this method and what problems were encountered or what advantages. I would welcome any other opinions as well, even if you haven't used this idea since I am just starting to try this and don't know if it is a good idea or not. 

Look forward to hearing your thoughts. Thanks

Be Well,


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## Blackster (Oct 20, 2008)

Here are my 2 cents concerning building a preset: 

1) I also use many different presets. For example: The whole orchestra, small orchestra, just strings, orchestra blend with electro stuff, orchestra with metal band, and so on ....
Personally I like to use single articulations or modwheel-blend-programs. But I don't use keyswitch programs. But that's just a matter of taste I guess. 

2) Because of performance reasons I also separate the composing process from the mixing and mastering process. So once I've finished a composition (which means only the midi-composition including CCs, but absolutely dry and with no processing) I export the single instrument tracks as Wave-files and load them into my next preset, which is pure a audio preset. Here I choose among different presets like: classic, hard compressed, epic, romantic, etc. All the different presets have slighty different properties on EQs, compressors and so on. .... because of separating those processes you are able to achieve many different sounds or tones by combining your single presets (midi and audio). 

3) The last category of my presets contains only mastering-presets. In this preset I import the final un-mastered stereo track of my audio preset. 

It took me some time to create all those presets but once you got it you save a lot of time which makes your work more efficient. 

Do you guys also separate midi and audio processing? Just curious to know.


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## JT3_Jon (Oct 20, 2008)

Here's a tip if you're trying to do large templates on a single computer. Some sequencers have a feature where you can "turn off" an instrument and it will unload the CPU/RAM from that instrument, but still remember what instrument/patch you had loaded (dont know if Cubase has this feature, but I know Logic & DP do for example). 

So what I do in Logic is have a bunch of instruments/articulations "pre loaded" (loaded in the template but turned off so its not using any CPU/RAM) and then only flip on the "on switch" when I need that instrument/articulation.

Hope that makes sense, and if not let me know and I'll try to explain it better.


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## JT3_Jon (Oct 20, 2008)

synthetic @ Mon Oct 20 said:


> I don't like keyswitches because you have to rewind far back enough to have the keyswitch fire again. If you use a MIDI controller, that follows the sequence so you can play back from anywhere.



I Agree 100%! Thats why in Logic I found a way to switch between different EXS instruments via midi channel, so if I want staccato, I just switch to midi channel 2. No keyswitch/rewinding required.

However, since I've added VSL VI to my template, I've lost this ability on their instruments! I'll have to try your CC example, and though it won't be as easy as switching midi channel, at least I wont have to worry about where I start a piece from and if it got the proper key switch.

Key switches are a PITA!


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## Daryl (Oct 21, 2008)

synthetic @ Mon Oct 20 said:


> I don't like keyswitches because you have to rewind far back enough to have the keyswitch fire again.


Only if you don't know how to use keyswitches....! You need to make them almost legato, and in my sequencer that is select and a KC. The advantage for me over controllers, is that I don't need an extra controller lane open, and I can immediately see where the keyswitch is in the key Editor.

having said that, I do use both velocity and continuous controllers for "one off" changes, such as using portamento, sfortzando or snap pizz. I also use it to control manually the speed control with the VSL legato samples, if I don't like the default.

D


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## PolarBear (Oct 21, 2008)

Daryl, even if I hold the key switch note, it won'T be triggered anymore when I rewind not far enough?


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## bluejay (Oct 21, 2008)

Can't you simply chase MIDI notes in the DAW preferences? It works in Cubase.


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## bryla (Oct 21, 2008)

bluejay @ Tue Oct 21 said:


> Can't you simply chase MIDI notes in the DAW preferences? It works in Cubase.


Even if this works, it takes away your left hand for playing because it has to hold a note.


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## Daryl (Oct 21, 2008)

bryla @ Tue Oct 21 said:


> bluejay @ Tue Oct 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Can't you simply chase MIDI notes in the DAW preferences? It works in Cubase.
> ...


That's why you just hit it whilst playing and then just hit a KC for "legato minus a bit" afterwards.

D


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## kstevege (Jan 21, 2009)

PoppaJimmy @ Mon Oct 20 said:


> Another question regarding creating templates. I would like opinions on the following method which I am just beginning to experiment with:
> 
> FYI: I'm using 3 computers:
> 
> ...



Instrument Banks is one of the most overlooked, and greatest, features of Kontakt!!


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## MCS (Jan 25, 2009)

JT3_Jon @ Tue Oct 21 said:


> So what I do in Logic is have a bunch of instruments/articulations "pre loaded" (loaded in the template but turned off so its not using any CPU/RAM) and then only flip on the "on switch" when I need that instrument/articulation.



Hi!

Are you talking about EXS instruments in logic or does that work with other plug ins also (like kontakt)

thanks.


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## Waywyn (Jan 25, 2009)

Okay this is what I experienced over time:

Most important thing for me was the routing:
So now I have a bus/group/instrument for individual string libs (e.g. symphobia strings, ewqlso strings, vsl appa strings etc.) then I route all those groups to another group and this would be STRINGS. I do the same for brass, percussions etc.

By doing this - and just in case I have to load additional instruments, articulations etc. I just need to route to the right bus and everything is panned/reverbed etc. the way I want it.

Finally all groups hit a main group which is called ORCHESTRA.

It may seem a bit difficult but in the end you are complete set for everything you have to do. If you need to render out strings, you just solo the strings bus, if you need woods only, solo that channel. If you want additional instruments e.g. ethnic percussion, vox, rock stuff you simply have the orchestra channel and you don't have to care about a general master reverb also wettening your additional instruments.


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## tgfoo (Jan 25, 2009)

MCS @ Sun Jan 25 said:


> JT3_Jon @ Tue Oct 21 said:
> 
> 
> > So what I do in Logic is have a bunch of instruments/articulations "pre loaded" (loaded in the template but turned off so its not using any CPU/RAM) and then only flip on the "on switch" when I need that instrument/articulation.
> ...



That works on any instrument channel. Also, Logic won't load samples into RAM if that particular instrument is frozen when the project is loaded. Granted once you unfreeze the instrument they samples will load and will stay loaded even if you re-freeze it. However if you save and close the project, when you open it again the frozen instruments will once again not be loaded. I find it's a good way to open large templates relatively fast, especially if you only need to use a few instruments when it first opens.


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## Synesthesia (Jan 25, 2009)

tgfoo @ Sun Jan 25 said:


> MCS @ Sun Jan 25 said:
> 
> 
> > JT3_Jon @ Tue Oct 21 said:
> ...



Tim - 

So when your template is complete and empty of midi (obviously), you freeze all the K3 or EXS tracks, and save it as Template Freeze (or whatever) and then can you unfreeze one track at a time when you want to use/load that sound?

Also - being a bit dim - how does the non-freeze 'turn the track off' thing work in Logic?

Thanks for all these tips!

Cheers

Paul


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## JT3_Jon (Jan 25, 2009)

MCS @ Sun Jan 25 said:


> JT3_Jon @ Tue Oct 21 said:
> 
> 
> > So what I do in Logic is have a bunch of instruments/articulations "pre loaded" (loaded in the template but turned off so its not using any CPU/RAM) and then only flip on the "on switch" when I need that instrument/articulation.
> ...



It works with all plugins/VI's. In Logic 8 I use a combination of the "channel off" feature for my most used articulations, and "channel strips" for my less used. Whats cool is both methods remember all plugins, EQ settings, patches etc for both logic & 3rd party plugins! Note: in logic 8 the "channel off" option now only exists in the environment (use to be accessible from both environment and arrange page in L7).

It seems Tim and I are talking about two different methods. Freezing causes logic to render your VI's into quick audio tracks, freeing up CPU, however freezing will NOT unload the samples out of RAM as it expects you to unfreeze the track later to keep working (it would be a drag to have to wait for instruments to load each time!) Apparently though, freezing will keep samples out of RAM when you re-open the project, until you unfreeze it. The "channel off" method automatically unloads the plugins/ samples (including RAM) right when you turn it off, and loads them up when you turn them on. Of course you will no longer hear whatever midi data you have on that track as its not being played through anything, so this is best used as a way of keeping instruments "pre-loaded." 

This freeze template method sounds interesting though, as you simply have to unfreeze the channel and go (where my channel off method involves turning on the specific channel you want). I may have to try this new freeze method! BTW, another method is to save your instruments as channel strips, and load channel strips as needed. IMO Thats whats great about Logic, there are many different ways to do something, and you can decided which method works best for you instead of being forced to do something one way! 

Anyway, the only reason I do this is because, like Polar Bear, I like to keep every CPU/RAM resource available and dont want to waste any resources loading articulations/instruments I may not use. Thats also why I dont use keyswitch instruments, as for example, I'd hate having both whole step and half step trills loaded when I only needed half step! (btw, I dont use trills anyway, performance legato patches make great trills!) Perhaps this will change when I eventually upgrade my system.  

BTW, I also feel that templates can sometimes be dangerous, as we can easily find ourselves quickly using same instruments/EQ's/Reverbs because they are there (instant gratification) instead of listening in our heads for the music/sound and THEN figuring out how to create it. Of course when your under a tight deadline, a good template can be your best friend! So its a good tool to have as well.

Damn the duality of life! :roll:


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## Waywyn (Jan 26, 2009)

tgfoo @ Sun Jan 25 said:


> MCS @ Sun Jan 25 said:
> 
> 
> > JT3_Jon @ Tue Oct 21 said:
> ...



Sorry, but this just works for EXS ... PLAY, K3 etc. will be loaded anyway.


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## JT3_Jon (Jan 26, 2009)

Waywyn @ Mon Jan 26 said:


> Sorry, but this just works for EXS ... PLAY, K3 etc. will be loaded anyway.


Very good to know! I guess I'll stick with my current method. Thanks!


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