# AnyRidley Scott "Alien" fans out there? you've just got to see this Prometheus viral!!



## SvK (Apr 17, 2012)

Meet Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOOJl5lWNfM


----------



## Nostradamus (Apr 17, 2012)

Yeah, it's cool.


----------



## SvK (Apr 17, 2012)

sure is


----------



## Niah (Apr 17, 2012)

emotional and...epic


----------



## SvK (Apr 17, 2012)

what a sense of style!!


----------



## choc0thrax (Apr 17, 2012)

Gonna be badass when he melds with that alien shit.


----------



## SvK (Apr 18, 2012)

Watchthispeople


----------



## noiseboyuk (Apr 18, 2012)

At this point, the film can ONLY disappoint... how can anything live up to this expectation?


----------



## JonFairhurst (Apr 18, 2012)

I don't know. The tears weren't as authentic as I would have liked. Also, I could hear a small discontinuity between the voiced consonants and the vowels.

I think I'll wait for David Version 9 before I place my order. Maybe I'll change my mind after some user demos.


----------



## Ed (Apr 18, 2012)

SOOO FKAE


----------



## SvK (Apr 18, 2012)

ANOTHER VIRAL !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpYUW0ekPSA&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpYUW0ek ... ure=relmfu)


----------



## JohnG (Apr 18, 2012)

the David thing is awesome.


----------



## SvK (Apr 18, 2012)

sure is !!


----------



## choc0thrax (Apr 25, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXXD34mxGM0

New featurette thing. Some new footage.


----------



## snowleopard (Apr 29, 2012)

I'm cautiously optimistic, and sticking with my earlier thoughts. This all looks too slick, too clean.. The Alien world I remember was just gritty, nasty, a desolate world. This looks more like Avatar. 

But I'll see it anyway, it is Ridley.


----------



## choc0thrax (Apr 29, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1byZkbNB3Jw (www.youtube.com/watch?v=1byZkbNB3Jw)

New international trailer. I hear it's full of spoilers... hmm_m... try-- trying t-- 

esist watch-- ng............ 

ahhh-- arghghg--_

Choco! Come in! You're breaking up.



................

(o)


----------



## Nostradamus (Apr 30, 2012)

snowleopard @ Sun Apr 29 said:


> I'm cautiously optimistic, and sticking with my earlier thoughts. This all looks too slick, too clean.. The Alien world I remember was just gritty, nasty, a desolate world. This looks more like Avatar.



Well yes, I just watched the first Alien movie on DVD again and I realized that it was indeed gritty - because of an inferior image quality. I know what you mean, of course, but I really think that at least a part of this cleanness is a result of modern production technology. It reminds me a bit of the 48 fps discussion.


----------



## choc0thrax (May 1, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wx3wbKEUwI&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wx3wbKE ... e=youtu.be)

Another featurette. I've basically seen the whole movie now.


----------



## choc0thrax (May 15, 2012)

http://collider.com/prometheus-tv-spot-noomi-rapace/166351/ (http://collider.com/prometheus-tv-spot- ... ce/166351/)

A new TV spot that offers some glimpses at previously unseen footage.


----------



## choc0thrax (May 19, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TcH4SmvA&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TcH4S ... ure=relmfu)


Music from that Prometheus movie...

I think this cue plays over the part where the U.S. president visits LV 426 and drapes some sort of award around a space jockey's neck. Then everyone turns toward a golden double sunset.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 1, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Wed Apr 18 said:


> At this point, the film can ONLY disappoint... how can anything live up to this expectation?



Well I was right there. A terrible disappointment. I'm staggered at the okish reviews. Whereas the original Alien was a B movie that felt like a A movie, this felt like the reverse. The acting - Fassbender aside - was poor, the script was poor and yes I laughed out loud a few times. No sense of jeapordy, and characters consistently behaved stupidly - time and again I was thinking "I'd never do that". The music was fairly awful too - the word that kept coming to mind about the whole film, score included was "hack". Everything was on-the-nose, no subtlety in anything. And a terrible shame - it was a great premise, and the visuals were terrific.

Now, I have it on good authority that approx an hour of material has been cut from this release. That's not uncommon from a first assembly. But from the descriptions I've heard, a lot of the material that was cut would address a lot of the problems I'm reading people have with it - character issues, plot issues, general pacing stuff. Although I've criticized the script, the reality might be that this film was wrecked in the edit suite. Perhaps time will tell.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 1, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Fri Jun 01 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Wed Apr 18 said:
> 
> 
> > At this point, the film can ONLY disappoint... how can anything live up to this expectation?
> ...




Noooo!!!! I noticed on Rotten tomatoes that while it has a pretty good score, a lot of the positive reviews aren't exactly glowing.

Thank god I only spent $42 dollars on two tickets.... 

I've seen it mentioned a couple times that the script has issues which I've always found an odd criticism since there's never any way to know what was in the script.


----------



## midphase (Jun 1, 2012)

When people criticize the script, what they're actually referring to is the story (structure, development, pacing, etc.).

The main criticisms levied on Prometheus that I see so far is that it degenerates rather quickly into an action movie with a few scares, and that the performances except for the girl without the dragon tattoo are ho-hum for the most part. Many reviews also seem to mention the score as being overbearing, and mention Goldsmith's restraint and sparseness as part of what made the original Alien work so well.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 1, 2012)

midphase @ Fri Jun 01 said:


> When people criticize the script, what they're actually referring to is the story (structure, development, pacing, etc.).
> 
> The main criticisms levied on Prometheus that I see so far is that it degenerates rather quickly into an action movie with a few scares, and that the performances except for the girl without the dragon tattoo are ho-hum for the most part. Many reviews also seem to mention the score as being overbearing, and mention Goldsmith's restraint and sparseness as part of what made the original Alien work so well.



On the face of it, the script was a fail on all levels. The structure is weak in the 2nd half in particular, development is a mess (non-existent for character development), the pacing is rushed and a lot of the dialogue is awful (and I'm a Lindelof fan). However this may at least partially be unfair - what isn't known though is how much has been hacked in post. My friend who was involved with the production said that lots of character, plot and subtleties were all absent from the final movie. Theron has one apparently really hack line of dialogue, for example, where I instantly thought that's the direction and editing choice, not her performance or script. 

My guess is that it's combination of a less than perfect script, and some really poor choices in post to a) get the running time down and b) keep the studio heads happy that it was PACY. It is certainly fast pace, but is not engaging - the classic symptom of a hacked product.

As to the score, I see Harry Gregson Williams is credited as "additional music", and I understand there was a major last minute scramble. Again, it has all the hallmarks of a loss of nerve, with studio heads keep to keep the action going. Everything is on-the-nose - tense moments have tense music, shocks have big BLEEAAAHS and so on. The main theme is quite nice actually... again, I just have the feeling that things are not quite what they seem.

I've read some comments comparing it to The Phantom Menace, surely the most damning criticism imaginable. I think that's not quite right. The original franchise was hugely uneven - it was only ever the first 2 movies that were classics, 3 I loathe beyond all measure (and take no revisionist nonsense about either), and 4 was pretty wretched, if mildly entertaining in a brain-removed kinda way. That's where I pitch Prometheus. The difference is that this film promised so much more - a clean start without the baggage that the original franchise had hanging round its neck (having to shoehorn Ripley in where there was no reason for her to be there). So the sense of dissapointment is far more pronounced here than in Resurrection for example.... perhaps it equals Alien 3 though (though the experience is very different).

EDIT - there are spoilers in this review, but the highly knowledgeable Ian Nathan hits a bullseye here in Empire magazine - http://www.empireonline.com/reviews/reviewcomplete.asp?FID=137119 (http://www.empireonline.com/reviews/rev ... FID=137119)

EDIT 2 - forgot to say I'm hugely ambivalent about 3D, but it was very well done in this. It might even have slightly added to the experience. That makes 2 - Hugo and Prometheus.

EDIT 3 - apologies to USA folks for raining on the parade early, didn't realise it wasn't out there for another week.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 1, 2012)

midphase @ Fri Jun 01 said:


> When people criticize the script, what they're actually referring to is the story (structure, development, pacing, etc.).



Sure, but A LOT can change in editing. It's hard to judge a script that's had an hour cut out of it.


----------



## midphase (Jun 1, 2012)

But you understand that when people criticize the script, they're not really truly criticizing the screenplay literally. I mean, they are criticizing the story of the film as it stands in its final form warts and all. There is perhaps an incorrect assumption that movies are true to the screenplay when more than likely they are not. My bud Bob DeRosa who wrote the original screenplay for Killers saw a final film as just a shadow of his original intent, even changed from dark drama (most definitely not Ashton Kutcher material) to a floppy and absurd romcom. Nonetheless he had to endure the criticism on the script even though he couldn't personally call each reviewer to explain what happened.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 1, 2012)

midphase @ Fri Jun 01 said:


> But you understand that when people criticize the script, they're not really truly criticizing the screenplay literally. I mean, they are criticizing the story of the film as it stands in its final form warts and all. There is perhaps an incorrect assumption that movies are true to the screenplay when more than likely they are not. My bud Bob DeRosa who wrote the original screenplay for Killers saw a final film as just a shadow of his original intent, even changed from dark drama (most definitely not Ashton Kutcher material) to a floppy and absurd romcom. Nonetheless he had to endure the criticism on the script even though he couldn't personally call each reviewer to explain what happened.



Well I guess it's when they mention the screenwriter's name that it gets annoying. Especially if the script was great.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 1, 2012)

midphase @ Fri Jun 01 said:


> But you understand that when people criticize the script, they're not really truly criticizing the screenplay literally. I mean, they are criticizing the story of the film as it stands in its final form warts and all. There is perhaps an incorrect assumption that movies are true to the screenplay when more than likely they are not. My bud Bob DeRosa who wrote the original screenplay for Killers saw a final film as just a shadow of his original intent, even changed from dark drama (most definitely not Ashton Kutcher material) to a floppy and absurd romcom. Nonetheless he had to endure the criticism on the script even though he couldn't personally call each reviewer to explain what happened.



Absolutely, and that's always been true. Usually the director gets all the praise and flack, even for the script. Oddly, this time most people are gunning for Lindelof, presumably because he's a bit of a name, despite him being a co-author and evidence of a lot of editing. The jury is very much out here.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 2, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Fri Jun 01 said:


> midphase @ Fri Jun 01 said:
> 
> 
> > But you understand that when people criticize the script, they're not really truly criticizing the screenplay literally. I mean, they are criticizing the story of the film as it stands in its final form warts and all. There is perhaps an incorrect assumption that movies are true to the screenplay when more than likely they are not. My bud Bob DeRosa who wrote the original screenplay for Killers saw a final film as just a shadow of his original intent, even changed from dark drama (most definitely not Ashton Kutcher material) to a floppy and absurd romcom. Nonetheless he had to endure the criticism on the script even though he couldn't personally call each reviewer to explain what happened.
> ...



And Lindelof didn't even write much of it from what I can tell. I guess this is the downside to stealing Jon Spaihts' spotlight.


----------



## Lex (Jun 3, 2012)

Saw it yesterday...
All in all I was disappointed. Looks great, sounds great, starts great...but then gradually goes all over the place.

Think the reason why Lindelof is getting flack is cause stuff that went real bad in "Prometheus" has a very distinct "bad bits from LOST" feeling to it...

Oh...and YAY for making a 3D movie look good and not dark and blurry, think this is the first for me since AVATAR that looked good..

alex


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 3, 2012)

Lex @ Sun Jun 03 said:


> Saw it yesterday...
> All in all I was disappointed. Looks great, sounds great, starts great...but then gradually goes all over the place.
> 
> Think the reason why Lindelof is getting flack is cause stuff that went real bad in "Prometheus" has a very distinct "bad bits from LOST" feeling to it...
> ...



You mean it has a bunch of random stuff happen that is never explained and passed off as gripping mystery?

I remember the main reason I stopped watching Lost was that it was just a swirling toilet bowl of random mysteries cobbled together stalling until someone finally gave the go ahead to end the show. A show whose mysteries were about as smart and entertaining as the "jokes" in family guy.

The only time I've liked 3D was in How to train your dragon.


----------



## Lex (Jun 3, 2012)

choc0thrax @ Sun Jun 03 said:


> You mean it has a bunch of random stuff happen that is never explained and passed off as gripping mystery?



Kind of, not as bad as Lost, but definitely same taste...a lot of intriguing build up with "_doesn't have to make sense as long as you can pass it as mysterious and open for interpretation_" resolve.

lex


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 3, 2012)

LOST had far stronger characters throughout. And better 3D.

EDIT now I think carefully, LOST wasn't in 3D, and Prometheus' looked very good, but I felt like I was on a roll with my rants.


----------



## midphase (Jun 3, 2012)

I think a monkey can come up with interesting mysteries and premises. The genius is knowing how to resolve them (or how to convince the audience that it's not necessary to resolve them).

I've seen way too many films who have great setups with extremely disappointing resolves due to the writer's inability to think of anything clever.


----------



## KEnK (Jun 4, 2012)

The Never Ending Mystery...

Seems like the X files was the 1st series to take this to such an extreme.
Keep the suckers guessing~always leave them wanting more.

Personally, I interpret it as a cheap ratings device.
Fact is it's had the opposite effect on me.

I know they're never going to tie it all up or they'll get cancelled.

So I don't get into any "to be continued..." television.
(I did enjoy 1.5 seasons of Battlestar Gallactica)

Proud to say I never saw a single episode of "Lost" or "The Sopranos".

"to be continued..." has rubbed me the wrong way.
I just don't have the time or inclination to get involved.

As to what I'm reading about flaws in the "Prometheus" story...
Maybe R. Scott wanted to make a 3 hour movie and they wouldn't let him. 
Haven't seen it yet and I'm already waiting for the "directors cut".

One of the best movies I've seen in decades was "Best of Youth",
an Italian film that that you see in 2 installments because it's about 7 hours long.

No space ships, CG or Action to speak of.
Just a completely engrossing Character driven story.

k


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 8, 2012)

Just got back from a midnight screening.... I can barely stand because I just got raped. Spoilers probably below.


Amateurish.

That is the word to describe this film. It is the single word now tattooed to my brain. What a mess. There was so much wrong going on.

The worst aspect I guess is the dialogue and exposition. I've never cringed so many times during a film and it wasn't during any scares -- of which there are few -- but during dialogue exchanges. The acting and exposition were just terrible. 

Stuff like Noomi Rapace jamming some needle thing into a decapitated alien head and saying something like "hang on I think I can trick it into thinking it's still alive". And then the head opens its eyes. I thought that was retarded but then I remembered this takes place in 2089 so we'll definitely have the reanimation of decapitated alien head syringe developed by then. Then there's the awkward terrible dialogue exchange when she reveals she can't have children. I can't explain it, you have to see it.

Fassbender tries but ultimately he's mired in the same crappy character actions as everyone else. He's pure bad then decides he isn't anymore when some albino guy tears his head off. Fassbender also learns to play space flute and speak the alien's language near the end. P.S. The space flute, which I think is like an intergalactic ocarina of time, unlocks some CG stuff on like a dashboard and you can push buttons to do stuff.

Then there's the part where two guys on the space team(I have no idea what their names are) get stuck in the alien structure on the planet while everyone else escapes to their ship. The two dudes are scared shitless! they're freaking out, man. Then they come across a threatening alien and hey! That creepy ass threatening alien looks so darn cute, why don't I try to pet it. Nooooooo!!!!!! Who could have foreseen!!??!? Why didn't I stay scared!

And we've got Guy Pearce in 10 feet of makeup as an old man... who happens to have lively youthful eyes under there.

Near the end of this film part of the crew who have spent the entire movie sitting around the cockpit area check their watches and oh it's that time in the movie when we need to kamikaze our ship into another ship so it doesn't get away. Eh no biggie.

Then noomi rapace and fassbender's decapitated talking head get in some other alien ship that was just lying around somewhere and go on a space roadtrip, no not back to earth, duh! but to where the bad aliens live because Noomi's upset and like wants answers, wants to know why the aliens don't like us. Should turn out well considering they don't speak the same language and generally just try to kill you right off the bat but ehhh we need a sequel.

The music sounded like something a highschool student made in a basement somewhere. I'm mainly referring to the main theme which shows up 30 times and you just want to punch it in the face. It's some sort of noble miracly exploration sounding thing that shows up like molasses over just about anything. Grotesque bio sludge crawling around? Noble theme!!! Go forth proud bio sludge! You are an inspiration to us all.

There were only two things I liked about this film: There is one scene which is not bad because noone is talking, they're too busy racing away from a giant dust cloud and for almost the only time in the film the music not only matched what was happening onscreen but dare I say even heightened the action? That and Charlize moping around the ship in a skintight spacesuit. Although my eyes failed to detect space camel toe. Oh and Charlize has her own personal medical pod thing in her quarters that only works on men. I don't know if she's supposed to be a man or what.

Anywhoo this is Ridley's Phantom menace or Indy 4.

The one upside to spending 40 dollars on IMAX tickets is the entertainment value you get out of trashing the film afterwards with a good friend.

Oh and 3D sucks.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 8, 2012)

Yes to everything. Except I didn't like the music cue with the giant dust cloud, just seemed like another cliche to me. Oh and although I generally don't like the 3D, I did quite like it in this - seemed natural and made the (deliberate) CG stuff sit slightly oddly, in a good "feels like a hologram" way. But that's about it.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 8, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Fri Jun 08 said:


> Yes to everything. Except I didn't like the music cue with the giant dust cloud, just seemed like another cliche to me. Oh and although I generally don't like the 3D, I did quite like it in this - seemed natural and made the (deliberate) CG stuff sit slightly oddly, in a good "feels like a hologram" way. But that's about it.



Sure the music cue during the dust cloud wasn't anything special but it was like regular scoring which was a step up from that stupid theme anytime someone found or opened some alien crap. It was just a breath of fresh air to be finally watching a segment that was like a real movie.

I think my experience with the 3D was hampered by the fact my glasses might have been broken. I would often see double images of things. Like the credits at the beginning I'd see a second ghostly set jutting out of them. 

I remember after leaving the theatre thinking maybe if they put that hour that they cut out back in it maybe it wouldn't be so bad but then I remembered the movie already felt like it was 3 hours long. So nvm...


----------



## Alex W (Jun 8, 2012)

*** Spoilers ***

+10 Choco,

The characters were either bland, undeveloped, or bordering on ridiculous.

The "reveal" scene when Charlize Theron calls Weyland "Father!!" Had no impact, as neither of them really had much of a character.

The lead male scientist (Halloway?) flipped out and hit the bottle after he didn't get the answers he wanted within hours of arrival. I mean, calm down mate - you've only been here a few hours, who knows what you might uncover? Try to be happy, or maybe even a bit excited - you're taking part in the biggest scientific discovery ever!

And the fact that they all took their helmets off... with god knows what kind of microbial life floating around was ridiculous too.

Alien 1 was actually believable, the characters were human. These all felt like characters from a bad video game.

The auto medical machine scene was pretty awesome, and the space jockeys turned out to be pretty vicious and scary, yet still mysterious. I was a bit surprised that they were humanoid, I kinda preferred them being weird space elephants. Anyway...

I was really looking forward to this, and purposefully didn't watch any of the trailers, but overall the movie felt like a wasted opportunity to me.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 8, 2012)

Alex W @ Fri Jun 08 said:


> *** Spoilers ***
> 
> +10 Choco,
> 
> ...



Yup, when Charlize bends down by Guy Pearce and then looks up and says "*Father*" with such gravity! The hell do I care if he's her father? 

Like many things in this movie that marshall something guy who I mainly referred to as the dude scientist bro abruptly starts drinking and being all sad because all they found was a giant alien complex full of revolutionary stuff and dead alien bodies. That's not good enough! We need them alive. And why go explore more of the alien structure when you can mope around on the ship. Who cares about all that sciency stuff out there. 

Also Idris Elba was totally wasted in this. He's a great actor but all he does is sit around and squint at monitors or out windows. Sometimes he'll be sitting in the corner of a room and startle you.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 9, 2012)

Yes to everything again - "father" was one of those laugh out loud moments, I'd long figured it out (for whatever it was worth) and it was portentous nonsense. The film and characters were dumb. But hey, my letter to Ridley got read out on the BBC's film podcast (Kermode and Mayo) where I asked him to put the plot and the characters back in. It can't fix everything, but it might help a bit. I mean Benedict Wong is a legend, he had something like 1 line. Nuts.


----------



## paulcole (Jun 9, 2012)

Alex W @ Fri Jun 08 said:


> Alien 1 was actually believable, the characters were human. These all felt like characters from a bad video game.



This is always going to be the problem. Unless you have extremely defined character development all you are left with is CGI in a genre like Alien. Unfortunately, the sign of the times dictates exactly that; you have video game characters purely for that reason. To aid the sales of video games for the unfortunate masses that don't need character development, good scripting, plot ect ect. In fact, that target audience wouldn't know what you were talking about in the first place. 
Anyway, I'm glad you gents put this up because I was going to go and see it at the cinema and now I won't. Can it really be 1979 since Alien came out.

And when was the last time Ridley Scott made a good film? Probably 1979. His brother couldn't make a film if his life depended on it. So.......


----------



## Niah (Jun 9, 2012)

paulcole @ Sat Jun 09 said:


> And when was the last time Ridley Scott made a good film? Probably 1979. His brother couldn't make a film if his life depended on it. So.......



After Alien there was Blade Runner and after there was nothing, can't believe this man is still working or his brother for that matter.


----------



## nikolas (Jun 9, 2012)

Such a bullsh i t movie! WOW!

I mean... +69 to everything everyone said that was negative about the film, but I'd like to start early and screw up the very very early scenes of the film.

1. So we see the aliens coming to earth (pressumebly) and the alien drinks this black thingy which gives birth to... us. Right? So what about the other 2,000,000 species of earth? I can't remember when was the last time I saw a human female giving birth to a giraffe.

2. So, ok, either way, we populated the earth along with every other animal on the planet. (What about plants, btw?). And it so happens that the aliens left message everywhere until 3,000 BC or something, right? A map...

Now why the fuck would the aliens be visiting us every millenium, make us feel they are gods (since they are SO fucking tall), give us instructions to go to their... doom device and then leave? huh? 

And... why did they stop, again? Their doom device backfired? Yup... And the rest of their fucking planet was... kinda empty and decided to NOT sent anyone else again. Because... because... oh well you lost me.

3. Did Carlize actually fuck their eyes out with the captain? to prove she's human? Way to go! :D And, what choko says: She's a ... she yet the machine only works for males. I'm assuming that the *FATHER* only cared for himself and built this for him, while leaving his daughter out? Clever guy this *FATHER*...

I'm sorry but compared to this rubbish alien seems like a highly respectful documentary in national geographic for fucks shake!

(Really, I think that I've overused the word F U C K , so if the system kicks me out, Fred, kick me back in please!).

I've wasted 10 euros and a night out when I could've stayed in and watch porn (much better than this! :D)


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 9, 2012)

paulcole @ Sat Jun 09 said:


> Alex W @ Fri Jun 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Alien 1 was actually believable, the characters were human. These all felt like characters from a bad video game.
> ...



What is worrying to me is that Prometheus has an IMDB rating of 7.8 / 10. I've no doubt that will fall as the reality sinks in, but sheesh. People have came out of this film in huge numbers having had a great time, despite all the (correct and huge) problems pointed out here.

However on your other point, not only did Ridley direct Blade Runner, he excelled himself with Thelma & Louise (this and Alien are his two greatest films imho - while hugely admiring Blade Runner it's always left me strangely cold). Many loved Gladiator too of course, but it didn't do it for me. But alongside those classics for which he will rightly always be revered and loved, he did also give us

Robin Hood
A Good Year
Kingdom of Heaven
Hannibal

etc etc.


----------



## Tanuj Tiku (Jun 9, 2012)

Random film and an inefficient score. Very surprised to see Ridley Scot make such a film. Visually it looks great but over all its a very poorly constructed film. 

Even the characters have no idea about what is going on for some reason. Bad acting, poor character development and confusing music.

On the whole a very random experience indeed!


Tanuj.


----------



## Lex (Jun 10, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Sat Jun 09 said:


> However on your other point, not only did Ridley direct Blade Runner, he excelled himself with Thelma & Louise



Now you made me spill my coffee... :lol: 

alex


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 10, 2012)

Won't have a bad word spoken about Thelma OR Louise. Significantly it was an outstanding script - he essentially cast it perfectly and made it look everything it could be. Basically he's always needed a near-perfect script... Perhaps that's not so unusual, it's just his eye for picking them is so flawed.


----------



## paulcole (Jun 10, 2012)

I saw those ratings on imdb and am not really surprised because ratings are just a reflection of taste so when you're talking about films or any artform for that matter, it has to be as objective as anyone can get, which I know is difficult. After all, the human condition....

I thought Thelma and Louise was big on the visuals but small on the content in the end. It's not a film that I recall from my film subconscious and someone said already, Ridley Scott films are big on the visuals and thats never going to be enough for anyone with the ability to think and has at least modicum of imagination. especially in this genre. Imagination...that's why radio can be so good every now and again. You have to use your imagination. People get frights in the cinema because the director has allowed the audience to use their imagination.
That's why Alien was so good. He obviously forgot how to do that as time went on.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 10, 2012)

Well each to their own of course - I agree with Alien and Blade Runner, but Thelma and Louise in a sense I think is his high watermark for a marriage of visuals and character. Significantly for me, it was the film that actually made me want to be a writer (which I do alongside sound and composition) - not a director. I was so struck by the strength of the script - from a first time writer as well - that the visuals didn't swamp but complimented for me. I've yet to see a Ridley film was so much heart and humour, actually, and just terrific performances (as he also elicited in Alien) are a real credit to his talent there, one of the most important jobs of a director. But sheesh, even that was 20 years ago... just wish his script choices were more consistent.

I don't know what to make of it. He shows such poor regard for character in Prometheus, and like I say I have it on pretty good authority that there was a lot of character and plot moments that were shot and discarded. I'm half expecting / hoping that stories will emerge of duress placed upon him and the editor by a studio hungry for wall to wall action in a 2 hour running time, so he abandoned the original vision (even so, it's hard to imaging all of the dumb moments being explained away simply). I hope so - if he made those choices by his own volition, that's pretty depressing. It's interesting to compare Aliens and its own Special Edition - both work well, because Cameron cut entire sections rather than death of a thousand cuts, which is what Prometheus feels like. I'd have ditched great swathes of the more stupid stuff inside the beehive, for example, if it meant giving space to other elements of the story.

Maybe it's as simple as having lost his edge. I mean good lord, he's 75, which is absolutely extraordinary that he can helm ANY kind of movie, let alone a huge blockbuster. And of course he wouldn't be the first... I'm still devastated by what happened to Bill Forsyth - in the 80s, I thought Gregory's Girl and Local Hero marked him as an eternal genius. But it all evaporated... watching Gregory's 2 Girls was one of the most depressing experiences of my entire life. I was devastated that he'd lost his magic so completely. At least Prometheus isn't THAT bad.


----------



## paulcole (Jun 10, 2012)

Yeah, Thelma and Louise has good character development for the 2 main characters and humourous development in a 2 dimensional way for the husband and detective characters. That I agree with. It's the content that is just not there afaic. You can have plenty of character development so the audience is then able to identify and either like or dislike a character in a film. Same with books. That is a good thing compared with not caring one way or another about any of the characters. That's death.

But sometimes you can get too much character development and very little content or development of plot: whatever tag you want to put on it.

What it shows is that it's a very difficult balance for a director and script writer to achieve getting that perfect film. Most films are a compromise and even more of them are made for people that don't care or even want any of that type of film critique rhetoric. I would imagine most people on this forum would avoid the latter at all cost.

If you take a look at scripts from way back, it's very noticeable that great films were achieved with a minimal amount of characters and great plots. For instance, something like say, The Maltese Falcon where the thing balances out extremely effectively between character and great story telling. Or say like Chinatown. Not many characters and a great story. You don't even need well known actors if you can get that going in a film, although of course it helps because rightly or wrongly audiences grow up in any decade identifying with the actor. I think it's called being a fan.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 10, 2012)

Well, of course this is really just about acknowledging that there are many different sorts of film, which can work in different ways - I'd argue it was always thus. A film like 12 Angry Men was very talky and had very limited locations, and yet was somehow made cinematic due to a very skillful scriptwriter, director, cinematographer etc.

For me, Thelma and Louise was a perfect marriage. As the story progresses and the landscape changes from fairly mundane to spectacular and epic deserts (a change Scott made from the script, incidentally, although the denument was the same), it perfectly reflected the metaphorical journey of the characters (Thelma in particular) who leaves behind her comfortable and unhappy existence for a much more dangerous yet exhilarating ride. Just as Shawshank was a non-sexual male love story, I think Thelma & Louise is a female equivalent - although most of the male characters are borderline caricatures (often for comic relief), I think the increasing desperation and helplessness of Harvey Kietel's character (one of his strongest roles actually) at trying to stop the situation from increasingly spiralling out of control to be superbly handled. His is the thinking man's response to the stupid male characters in the film. Again, I remember a very short scene where it is raining and Kietel and his partners have to run into a house - laughing as they get drenched, it just feels like a totally natural and unforced character moment. How important those can be. As a widescreen examination of gender politics and friendship, it plays its hands superbly. Kudos too for the use of commercial tracks in tandem with Zimmer's excellent score, which increasingly dominates and escalates the sense of inevitability in a barren and harsh environment.

Any which way, the most relevant point is that Ridley can sure direct actors (and cast well also). In common with Alien, there's a real naturalness to the performances (witness the very short seemingly insignificant opening scene in the diner as Louise chastises some younger women for smoking - pitch perfect performances all round, and so succinctly setting up Louise's character with sly humour - a bullseye combintion of outstanding writing, directing and acting. Where, I can't help wondering, was ANY of that in Prometheus? Forgive me as I don't know the character or actor's name, but there was a women in a Scottish accent who permanently sounded like she was reading an autocue. Dialogue felt consistently clumsy, with none of the loose naturalness of Scott's better films. It's probably been happening for years in his films, but it's with Prometheus it is thrown into sharp relief as A/Bing with Alien is all to easy and inevitable. Even scientists are human beings! Then slap on a hack score that over-accentuates every plot point and nuance (simultaneously removing most of the tension), and the overall effect is just.... well... dumb. That's the word I keep coming back too, it doesn't feel like intelligent grown up filmmaking. If Alien was an A movie made out of a B movie concept, Prometheus feels like the reverse.


----------



## paulcole (Jun 10, 2012)

With a film like 12 Angry Men (which is a lesson in what's being discussed here) you have no other choice than to rely completely on character because as you say its all in a jury room. So the director makes the audience use a lot of their imagination via the descriptive nature of the script. Films like this are basically pro bono and done more or less on scale for all concerned. There is no real issue other than turning up to one set.

Alien is an A film based on 1950s B movies sci-fi. The actual concept of Alien was in no way original. It had been done before on a low budget B movie scale. A lot of good films in the Alien genre are taken from the 1950s. A lot of good films that work today are taken from lots of previous genres, like film noir for instance. Film noir was very reliant on character and storyline. Thats why it's still very popular today and I sometimes get the impression that audiences settle down and watch a 1949 film noir example on TV and love it while at the same time having no idea of why they love it.

As you say, Ridley Scott is 75 and the trouble with getting old is you can easily lose your own self monitoring of quality control. It was probably too much for him on this occasion.


----------



## midphase (Jun 10, 2012)

I agree with everything that has been said about Prometheus...let me pull down my pants and crap on it some too!

1. I put Prometheus at about the same story quality as the first AVP movie, characters are equally idiotic and continue to behave in ways that a real scientist would never do.

2. I don't think I've seen a movie treat its Red Shirts with this level of apathy, some of them don't even say a single line of dialogue! The original Alien gave personalities to the crew of the Nostromo, enough so that we have an idea of who is who and care a bit when their face implodes. Aliens took this to a whole other level, when Vasquez and Gorman eat it in the tunnel, we really feel sad at seeing those two go.

3. The ending is so unashamedly set up for a sequel that it would have been more honest to call this film "Prometheus Part 1"

4. My pet peeve is when the characters are stupid and do stupid things. Double whammy if these characters are supposed to be smarter than me (biologists, archeologists, geologists, etc).

5. I agree the guy from Luther was the best part of this film.

6. I was bored, locations were boring, acting was boring, score was boring. 

One last thing...

A while back, I read a "leaked" plot for this film on line (I know...I just couldn't resist). As it turns out, the plot was false, but ironically I think it would have made for a much better movie than the real thing! If you're curious, here it is:

http://screenrant.com/prometheus-plot-s ... nm-121771/


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 10, 2012)

midphase @ Sun Jun 10 said:


> 4. My pet peeve is when the characters are stupid and do stupid things. Double whammy if these characters are supposed to be smarter than me (biologists, archeologists, geologists, etc).



This really is the core of it for me. Sorry to go on about Thelma & Louise again, but a great strength of that film is that you can see the characters get from A to B to C to D to E to F, even though F is an extreme place to be. That has to be in the writing, fixing that stuff in post is a nightmare at best, impossible at worst.

But I can imagine a workable script falling apart if you surgically remove those motivations. Ridley / Speight / Lindelof have a shot at redemption in a Blu Ray special edition - if stuff really was shot that made sense of why people did what they did, then let's see it. If not... it has to be a duff script.


----------



## jleckie (Jun 10, 2012)

In answer to the first part of the thread title:

Not anymore... lol...


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 10, 2012)

Ugh, saw another terrible film today: The Avengers. I've really struck out at the theatre a lot lately.


----------



## midphase (Jun 10, 2012)

I haven't seen that one yet. I'm really not into the whole superhero thing, as a matter of fact I'm not even sure I'll go see the new Batman.

I was really hoping that Prometheus would satisfy my thirst for a great sci/fi movie this year, last one which qualifies would probably have to be Moon, and it's been a while since that one came out.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 10, 2012)

midphase @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> I haven't seen that one yet. I'm really not into the whole superhero thing, as a matter of fact I'm not even sure I'll go see the new Batman.
> 
> I was really hoping that Prometheus would satisfy my thirst for a great sci/fi movie this year, last one which qualifies would probably have to be Moon, and it's been a while since that one came out.



Yeah save yourself a headache and avoid Avengers which is like 4 hours long. There's about 2 hours dedicated to ridiculous looking heroes standing around in conference rooms whining about something.

I love Joss Whedon but these films never reflect who supposedly directed. When you have 30 people in suits telling you what to do it all ends up a mess.

Anytime Thor or Captain America were onscreen I couldn't help but laugh. It looks ridiculous. Looks like two cosplayers from comicon stumbled on set.


I'm very cautiously optimistic about Dark Knight Rises. Although it does have that terrible looking scene where the football field blows up.

Anywhoo, this has been my losing faith in directors I once adored week.


----------



## Kralc (Jun 10, 2012)

"The sound of Prometheus" for anyone who's still interested..... http://soundworkscollection.com/prometheus



choc0thrax @ Sun Jun 10 said:


> Anytime Thor or Captain America were onscreen I couldn't help but laugh. It looks ridiculous. Looks like two cosplayers from comicon stumbled on set.



Apparently for many women, they were the best part of the film. :| 
I kinda liked it (the film), there were definitely a few meh points though.


----------



## lee (Jun 11, 2012)

For all you sci/fi fans out there:

Yep, Prometheus sucked. Avengers sucked!

Go watch Chronicle instead. It´s great if you ask me.

/Johnny


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 11, 2012)

lee @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> For all you sci/fi fans out there:
> 
> Yep, Prometheus sucked. Avengers sucked!
> 
> ...



I want to watch Chronicle but I can't for personal reasons. 

Also, having read the script, I know I'd have a hard time watching something with no likeable characters. I need a protagonist I can root for, not against.

Sadly I don't even know when the next movie I'm looking forward to is coming out. I guess Pacific Rim in 2013.


----------



## midphase (Jun 11, 2012)

Chronicle is ok, the biggest problem with the film is the whole "found footage" issue which gets progressively more problematic until in the 3rd act the director pretty much wipes his ass with the whole concept and puts cameras anywhere and everywhere he wants.

I can't wait for the day until the found footage thing disappears completely off the face of the planet!


----------



## JonFairhurst (Jun 11, 2012)

choc0thrax @ Sun Jun 10 said:


> Ugh, saw another terrible film today: The Avengers...



I went to the movies with my wife this weekend. She wanted to see The Avengers. She doesn't watch a lot of TV, so she missed the trailers. She thought the film was a remake of the British Spy TV show about Steed and the lovely Emma Peel.

The movie starts with the space portal thing and my wife thinks, "okay, a spy movie with a space theme. Nothing new. Bond did that years ago." Then we see the Russian interrogation scene, which totally fits. Next, we go to India where the tough Russian woman talks to some doctor who scares even her. Nicely done scene. 

Then out of the blue Ironman shows up. Okay, that's really weird. Where's the guy with the brolly and bowler? When Captain America appeared, she threw her hands into the air and said, "what the hell is this?!?"

I quietly explained it to her. She says, "Maybe we should have gone to Prometheus."

After the film, she says, "So what was with the Nordic Jesus?"

I say, "That was Thor."

"Thor?"

"He had a hammer."

"Yeah. Nordic Jesus. The carpenter..."


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 11, 2012)

midphase @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> Chronicle is ok, the biggest problem with the film is the whole "found footage" issue which gets progressively more problematic until in the 3rd act the director pretty much wipes his ass with the whole concept and puts cameras anywhere and everywhere he wants.
> 
> I can't wait for the day until the found footage thing disappears completely off the face of the planet!



Ah, the wonderful genre of "Dude, why are you filming everything now?" ..."Dude, why are you still filming?"... Someone needs to tell these characters that they can flee in terror faster if they aren't trying to film while they run. 

The only films in it that I've found okay were the Rec films.

This genre is gonna be around for a while. Producers love these flicks. There are so many desperate writers out there and they know they have a better chance of selling something found footage over something more traditional. Not to mention these scripts look like they took a weekend to write. They're generally in the 80 page range and often offer no character development. 

I follow a guy on twitter who exclusively writes and sells a lot of found footage stuff and he seems to write a new script each month.


----------



## lee (Jun 12, 2012)

I totally agree, found footage is kinda lame, although I liked Cloverfield. But the story and the characters in Chronicle make up for this, IMO.

/Johnny


----------



## Niah (Jun 13, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0

Red Letter Media is at it AGAIN !!


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 13, 2012)

Niah @ Wed Jun 13 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0
> 
> Red Letter Media is at it AGAIN !!



Oddly disappointing itself, actually (nicely in keeping, I guess). As soon as I saw RLM had reviewed it, I was already chortling at the hundreds of manifest absurdities in the film that can be easily ripped apart. They just seemed kind of befuddled, saying how good it looked but although it wasn't all that great, it wasn't all that bad either. But it kinda really WAS that bad...


----------



## choc0thrax (Jun 16, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuJkJ-_6bAg&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuJkJ-_6 ... e=youtu.be)

Lindelof talks about how he rui-- err changed a lot of the Prometheus script. Gives a slight glimpse of what the original script was like.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 16, 2012)

choc0thrax @ Sat Jun 16 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuJkJ-_6bAg&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Lindelof talks about how he rui-- err changed a lot of the Prometheus script. Gives a slight glimpse of what the original script was like.



Yeah, it did - and it sounded spectacularly boring. Every decision Lindelof talked about there sounded like the right one to me, I have no issue with the premise or basic direction of the film thematically. I don't buy the "the film didn't know what it wanted to be line" really, that's not the problem all. An adventure gone wrong in space is just FINE, and I sure didn't wanna watch 2 hours of people running around corridors again with goo. Ticks all round there.

The problem is that the characters are MORONS. That's the problem. Lindelof? Speiht? Scott? No closer to knowing who was responsible for that one, and I'm still leaning more heavily on Scott than the others - he seemed quite proud of stripping that boring character stuff out to hit the 2hr running time, and leave it for the anoraks on Blu Ray to pour over. You know, all those geeky things like "oh that's why that character did that thing" and "oh, that's why the plot never made sense before". Lindelof helped create very memorable characters in LOST, and produced a Star Trek reboot which was heavily and successfully focused on character. What is Scott's character-protecting credentials post-Thelma & Louise? I'm more and more convinced folks are jumping on the wrong guy.

The quest for answers continues. I do see a stack of very long interviews with the writers on youtube... not tonight though....


----------



## lee (Jun 17, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Sat Jun 16 said:


> The problem is that the characters are MORONS.



+1


----------



## paulcole (Jun 17, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Sat Jun 16 said:


> The problem is that the characters are MORONS. That's the problem.




It certainly never helps or adds anything to a film when that happens. :lol:


----------



## paulcole (Jun 17, 2012)

noiseboyuk @ Sat Jun 16 said:


> I don't buy the "the film didn't know what it wanted to be line" really, that's not the problem all. An adventure gone wrong in space is just FINE, and I sure didn't wanna watch 2 hours of people running around corridors again with goo.



Yeah. That's one of the basic reasons films fail imo. Seen a lot of films like that that start off saying one thing and then suddenly it's tangent time.

But lets not forget that if it wasn't for corridors and air vents, Hollywood sci-fi would be 
out several billion dollars by now. o-[][]-o


----------



## midphase (Jun 17, 2012)

Was this already posted here?

http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html

This guy has way too much time on his hands, and I think he reads way too much into it (like the whole jesus was an alien thing).


----------



## NYC Composer (Jun 18, 2012)

I hadn't read this thread before I went to see Prometheus last night. All I can say after reading through it is: I'm glad it wasn't just me. 

I'm a _huge_ Ridley fan. SO disappointing in practically every way.


----------

