# General initial thoughts on CineStrings??



## prodigalson (Nov 26, 2013)

I know DJ just posted a vid with an extensive overview (which i just watched! thanks Daniel!) but I was just wondering if I could get a sense of how everyone was feeling about CS on first listen/work-thru? I'm LITERALLY a glass of whiskey away from purchasing CS but like many of you, am very curious about what Orchestral Tools comes up with next month...(but know thats gonna run me over $600 so purchasing both isn't feasible right now. )

From a quick, first listen to Daniel's video the shorts on CS sound great and there's tons of air on the legatos and sustains but I was wondering how the rest of you feel from a really working with it in your various styles of writing.

Thanks!


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

I haven't activated mine yet.

From what I played around with yesterday, I am not yet in love with the sound.

I have so many thoughts already about this lib. Though, I think it's too early to start explaining the good and the bad.


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2013)

prodigalson @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> I know DJ just posted a vid with an extensive overview (which i just watched! thanks Daniel!) but I was just wondering if I could get a sense of how everyone was feeling about CS on first listen/work-thru? I'm LITERALLY a glass of whiskey away from purchasing CS but like many of you, am very curious about what Orchestral Tools comes up with next month...(but know thats gonna run me over $600 so purchasing both isn't feasible right now. )
> 
> From a quick, first listen to Daniel's video the shorts on CS sound great and there's tons of air on the legatos and sustains but I was wondering how the rest of you feel from a really working with it in your various styles of writing.
> 
> Thanks!



An interesting post for a newbie....?!

Your post reads as if it had been paid by Orchestral tools. I hope that such filth does not take a place here on VI Control! Such intrigues are in Germany on the agenda, unfortunately. I hope that I am wrong!


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## korgscrew (Nov 27, 2013)

germancomponist @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> prodigalson @ Wed Nov 27 said:
> 
> 
> > I know DJ just posted a vid with an extensive overview (which i just watched! thanks Daniel!) but I was just wondering if I could get a sense of how everyone was feeling about CS on first listen/work-thru? I'm LITERALLY a glass of whiskey away from purchasing CS but like many of you, am very curious about what Orchestral Tools comes up with next month...(but know thats gonna run me over $600 so purchasing both isn't feasible right now. )
> ...



I see what you are saying GC. 1st post etc. I hope not!


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## bbunker (Nov 27, 2013)

Hmmm...seems more likely that someone would be lurking for a while and then say "this is my moment to ask, before I pull the trigger", rather than a plant from another company, unless that other company would think that the responses would be negative. Otherwise, it's just generating more press for their competition. If I were OT, I wouldn't take that chance.

Especially for a first post. If I were getting paid to shill, I would go post meaningless posts a dozen times to get my numbers up, then hit with the reason I came here. So, it's TOO obvious on the first post that you're new around here; a smart shill would cover his tracks first.

In response to your post, prodigalson, I didn't get Cinestrings. On the one hand, most of the demos I've heard I haven't liked. I just thought they sounded really organ-like and synthy.

Then, I heard Daniel James' walkthrough, and thought: "this is the awesomest string library I've heard for a while."

So, I dunno.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

And happy thanksgiving and/or channukah, if you're of either persuasion.


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## prodigalson (Nov 27, 2013)

Ha! wow, such cynicism! 

Unfortunately, I'm not lucky enough to work for Orchestral Tools. haha. I'm just a humble lurker who just activated his account a few weeks ago and has been too nervous to post anything yet (though I love this forum and have been having a blast reading and learning from everyone's comments).

Besides, it seems everyone's so excited about Orchestral Tools' new product line that they wouldn't need an imposter promoting them anyway. 

Thanks for the welcome! :D


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2013)

prodigalson @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Besides, it seems everyone's so excited about Orchestral Tools' new product line that they wouldn't need an imposter promoting them anyway.



Smile, and with this post you underline my impressions.

It smells very odd here!


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

prodigalson @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Ha! wow, such cynicism!
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm not lucky enough to work for Orchestral Tools. haha. I'm just a humble lurker who just activated his account a few weeks ago and has been too nervous to post anything yet (though I love this forum and have been having a blast reading and learning from everyone's comments).
> 
> ...




IMO. Maybe you should wait, like I should have haha. Wait and then compare BS and CS side by side.


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## feck (Nov 27, 2013)

My initial thoughts are that the sound is excellent. Very lush and hi-fi. Also, the playability factor is high - very logically laid out with easy control over articulation switching. It may be a bit premature, but this looks to be my new go-to string library.


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2013)

Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> prodigalson @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Ha! wow, such cynicism!
> ...



You two are delicious! An advertising strategy on the German model!

BTW, It's also no secret that both Hendrik and Sascha in Germany work in advertising ... .

Sweet! :-D


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2013)

feck @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> My initial thoughts are that the sound is excellent. Very lush and hi-fi. Also, the playability factor is high - very logically laid out with easy control over articulation switching. It may be a bit premature, but this looks to be my new go-to string library.



+1


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

germancomponist @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > prodigalson @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> ...




I love Germans.


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## FriFlo (Nov 27, 2013)

Dan Mott @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> germancomponist @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> ...



And if this were a German conspiracy, the NSA would have uncovered that by now and banned this guy for live from ViControl ...
If something smells funny here, it is your suspicion, Gunther! Relax!
(Wait! I could have been paid by OT! or maybe the Bundesnachrichtendienst ... Or ...)


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2013)

FriFlo @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> ... And if this were a German conspiracy, the NSA would have uncovered that by now and banned this guy for live from ViControl ...



Relax! 

The NSA might even have given me a medal? :mrgreen: o/~


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

hahahah. Just read this thread from beginning to end. Aghh, at least I got a smile on my face at work.


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2013)

Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> hahahah. Just read this thread from beginning to end. Aghh, at least I got a smile on my face at work.



So it was worth it... .


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## Rv5 (Nov 27, 2013)

Videos comparing mobile phones of recent years show startup times and app loading times with a little stopwatch where the time difference is milliseconds. I can't help but feel we're at a point ( a very welcome point!! ) where when looking at string libraries, it requires the same kind of magnification of something to distinguish much difference than the obvious. It'll be a really good sounding string library that will be playable and awesome. So will Berlin Strings. Like Sable and Hollywood Strings and Cinematic Strings and LA Scoring Strings et el.

When I've seen particular praise for one library for example fast lines in Hollywood Strings, I then find a demo where someone has used LASS or something to achieve just the same. 

Of course I'm playing a bit of devils advocate - it's interesting and informative to discuss what people find as pros and cons. But on the other hand and a more serious (stringed) note (probably eb), the main difference is the sound, and the differences in articulation list and ease of use is marginal. Maybe.. I felt like posting something as I have work to do.. :shock:


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

Gute Nacht, Sascha.


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## Jordan Gagne (Nov 27, 2013)

IMO, wait for Berlin Strings and see how they sound. If I'm strictly comparing the audio samples from what I've heard of both libraries (Cinestrings demos and the backing track of the Berlin Strings video), then I would say that Berlin sounds better. On the other hand, Cinesamples always has good playability and Orchestral Tools can sometimes be at the opposite of that spectrum, what with each articulation being on it's own patch (my only complaint with their approach).

...Or you can wait for Mural and (most likely) get the best of both worlds :D


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

Does anyone want to hear my first impressions?

Or do you think I should wait a while in repsect to the Mikes?


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2013)

Sascha Knorr @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Hi people,
> 
> I am not happy to write rhis, but after reading this thread I wanted to say, that I am out of this forum at least as long as Germancomponist is active here. He infested this whole place for quite a while, but this infamous and completely unfounded assumption has boiled me over. He could also blame SF for faking accounts, for example in the Mural String announcemrnt thread here... would be quite the same [email protected]#t.
> 
> ...



Sascha, after reading here many posts from you and a little bit discussing with you I would never ever trust you for a millisecond! I remember that you did not know the difference between normalizing and compressing, and after I explained it to you you called me an ...... . You know what? If you leave I don't miss you! 



> Gunther, i hope we never meet in real life... for you I could give up on my peaceful behavior.


Wow, you have a great character!


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

germancomponist @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Sascha Knorr @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi people,
> ...




I think he is Joking Gunther. o=?


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## woodsdenis (Nov 27, 2013)

Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Does anyone want to hear my first impressions?
> 
> Or do you think I should wait a while in repsect to the Mikes?



1. So by implication its not positive 
2. Why should they or us really care, or give any more weight to your opinion than others ?

If you have one post it.


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## Marius Masalar (Nov 27, 2013)




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## Ian Dorsch (Nov 27, 2013)

Haha, I was thinking the same thing. :D


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## zacnelson (Nov 27, 2013)

Gunther, you seem like a really good-natured and friendly guy, why all the hatred for Sascha and Orchestral Tools? I don't know what the history is between you two but you are both valuable members of the forum and I would hate either of you to leave or stop posting due to some feud! I have enormous respect for Sascha he is arguably the finest composer I have come across on this forum and his sound engineering skills are also equal to the best. And I always enjoy your posts Gunther (I haven't heard any of your music yet).


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

woodsdenis @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone want to hear my first impressions?
> ...




Did you even read what I said? I just didn't want to disrespect anyone, not that I think my opinion matters more than others. I will post it then, since it won't affect one. Let's see how that goes.


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

So this is coming from a HS user -

When I sat down and played around with this lib, I wasn't quickly grabbed or excited by the sound. However, I immediately noticed how much air the library has. Perhaps sometimes a bit too much air. I like the space around the instruments, but what really surprises me is how little the instruments light up the room. To me this library sounds quite dry, even with just the room mics on. The fact that it is quite dry is a good thing for flexibility. It is also a good thing if you want to add another reverb to the instruments without it sounding too muddy.

Compared to HS, the tone of CS seems quite nasally. I noticed that the violas are very lowmid heavy and it makes me want to EQ it out and raise some of the upper mids. CS, for me has almost a smiley face sound. I don't know, something is odd. I feel the mids are lacking somewhere. 

The shorts are very nice though. Tight. The basses actually impress me the most. HS basses are very sloppy in the short note department, but this isn't the case with CS. The basses are beefy and sound like basses should.

It's interesting really, but I'm smacking my self in the head, thinking about why I purchased the library because I do not think I will use it much, nor have I activated it. I guess I was attracted to the workflow, compared to HS, which only allows you one way to work really.

The best thing about CS that kills HS is simply workflow and the fact it's a Kontakt library. I love the workflow of CS and the options you have to tweak it and that's really important for users. I also love how smooth CS is. The legatos are smooth as butter (maybe too buttery, as sometimes the legato transitions are non existent), as well as the dynamic crossfading is quite good. Also, I think this library is very realistic sounding in terms of the natural air around the sounds and doesn't have much of that obvious sample sound. Though, sometimes the non existent legato transitions and the tone can make it sound a little pad like for me.

Overall, I think the tone of HS cuts through heaps better, as well as it sounds better to my ears. Violas are very important to me and I am not really a fan of the CS violas. Sometimes they sound like a cello. IMO, I think the spot mics are the worst sounding mic in the whole lib and I do not know why anyone would use it. The close mics have the same kinda sound, just a little more beefy. Also, I hear a lot of little noises going on in the shorts. Nothing you couldn't hide in a full mix though.

I am not the most experienced writer for strings, but I know what I like in sound and right now I am at that point were I really want my money back because nothing has really invited me to use it all that much. Nothing I don't already have.


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## woodsdenis (Nov 27, 2013)

Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> woodsdenis @ Thu Nov 28 said:
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> 
> > Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:
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I dont think you are disrespecting anyone by giving an honest opinion and comparing it to another library. The title of the thread is initial thoughts after all. There is no such thing as the best string library. Same instruments but everyone has a different style of writing and what sound they like or expect.


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## JE Martinsen (Nov 27, 2013)

Mathazzar @ Thu Nov 28 said:


>



It certainly did.

Well maybe I'm naive or just choose to think the best about people on first impression. I was surprised to see how this post by prodigalson was jumped on and deemed as suspicious. His question seems quite valid to me.. I don't know if there has been some "imposters" or "undercover agents" on V.I. Control before, but that was certainly not my first thought when I read his post.. :roll:

Chill out! :lol:


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

woodsdenis @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:
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> 
> > woodsdenis @ Thu Nov 28 said:
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Yes, but if you spend more time around here, you would know that this is quite a sensitive place. Most people can't take the opposing opinion and conversations get heated and I didn't want to heat anyone up so early on, however I posted what I think so..


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## woodsdenis (Nov 27, 2013)

Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> woodsdenis @ Thu Nov 28 said:
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> 
> > Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:
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Fair point Dan, however sensible people with valid critiques like yours shouldn't be hidden because of the silly behavior of others, didn't mean to get on your case, apologies. :D


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## Dan Mott (Nov 27, 2013)

woodsdenis @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > woodsdenis @ Thu Nov 28 said:
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All good. I just don't want anyone to think that I think my opinion is more valid than others because it isn't :D o-[][]-o


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## JE Martinsen (Nov 27, 2013)

Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> woodsdenis @ Thu Nov 28 said:
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> 
> > Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:
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I do spend quite a lot of time here, Dan. I have no where else to hang out! :lol: 

It would be boring without a heated discussion here and there. And after all, aren't artists generally a sensitive and emotional breed? o/~ 

But I think this just turned a bit hostile.. Which makes me sob and reach for my blankie.. :wink:

Edit : Oh sorry, I thought you responded to my comment, Dan. Anyway, I've shed me tears and opened a beer so I'm good. Now I'm interested to read some more comments on CineStrings because I'm one of those thinking hard about it right now...


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## Daniel James (Nov 27, 2013)

prodigalson @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> I know DJ just posted a vid with an extensive overview (which i just watched! thanks Daniel!) but I was just wondering if I could get a sense of how everyone was feeling about CS on first listen/work-thru? I'm LITERALLY a glass of whiskey away from purchasing CS but like many of you, am very curious about what Orchestral Tools comes up with next month...(but know thats gonna run me over $600 so purchasing both isn't feasible right now. )
> 
> From a quick, first listen to Daniel's video the shorts on CS sound great and there's tons of air on the legatos and sustains but I was wondering how the rest of you feel from a really working with it in your various styles of writing.
> 
> Thanks!



Hi mate and welcome to the forum...haha don't let Gunther get to you, he has his moments 

I am glad you got to check out the video! which also means you should have a pretty good understanding of how I feel about CS. They really are great, and the Sony stage does add a little magic to it all. The OT ones did sound pretty cool (if the music in the video was the lib that is) but I am yet to have hands on with that one. 

If you are desperate for strings CS is a great lib and I doubt you would be disappointed. If its not urgent however just wait a few weeks to see which one you prefer and jump then. Unless your work requires it, there is no rush 

-DJ


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## Craig Sharmat (Nov 27, 2013)

germancomponist @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> prodigalson @ Wed Nov 27 said:
> 
> 
> > I know DJ just posted a vid with an extensive overview (which i just watched! thanks Daniel!) but I was just wondering if I could get a sense of how everyone was feeling about CS on first listen/work-thru? I'm LITERALLY a glass of whiskey away from purchasing CS but like many of you, am very curious about what Orchestral Tools comes up with next month...(but know thats gonna run me over $600 so purchasing both isn't feasible right now. )
> ...



I read the thread because I think it is an interesting topic, I see no malice in it and in fact gives CS users a chance to chime in (I am sure many want to hear what they have to say). Gunther you are not a mod here, you can however report a post if you feel there is something wrong and we will look at it.

To prodigalson,

please do not let this scare you from posting here, its generally a friendly and informative place as you probably know.


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## Inceptic (Nov 27, 2013)

Would anyone mind comparing CineStrings to Cinematic Strings 2?

I want to purchase a new string library, and I've only ever owned/used the stock VSL strings that come in Kontakt 4...


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## Daniel James (Nov 27, 2013)

Inceptic @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> Would anyone mind comparing CineStrings to Cinematic Strings 2?
> 
> I want to purchase a new string library, and I've only ever owned/used the stock VSL strings that come in Kontakt 4...







Hope this helps 

-DJ


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## constaneum (Nov 27, 2013)

For me, base on what I heard from the demo, I somehow still prefer the sound of Cinematic Strings 2 even though I didn't own CS2 (but Happy LASS user here) for the warm/lush string sound...Just a personal preference.


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## prodigalson (Nov 27, 2013)

Mathazzar @ Wed Nov 27 said:


>



It certainly did!! Sorry guys! I didn't mean to start anything with my very first post!! haha. 0oD 

Thanks Dan for your opinions, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. 

And thanks Daniel and Craig for the warm (and trustful :wink: ) welcome! 

It seems like the consensus is to wait until BS is released which I think I'll do. I love CineWinds and CineBrass so I was thinking it would be nice to have a full Sony Stage template but as I find myself using Spitfire more often, I know I won't be able to resist Mural as a symphonic, cinematic string library when it's released. The smaller size of the Berlin String sections is very appealing to me as an alternative to a cinematic sound (even if it means beginning a very expensive Teldex template!).

Thanks guys! Hope my next post is less um...controversial. 

(Uh oh! I said something nice about Cinesamples and Spitfire in this post! Maybe I should disclaim it by stating that I in no way work for or represent Cinesamples or Spitfire. :wink: )


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## ETMuz (Nov 27, 2013)

I appreciate your input Dan and DJ.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 27, 2013)

constaneum @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> For me, base on what I heard from the demo, I somehow still prefer the sound of Cinematic Strings 2 even though I didn't own CS2 (but Happy LASS user here) for the warm/lush string sound...Just a personal preference.



From the demos I've heard so far, I tend to agree. I'm a Cinematic Strings 2.0 owner. I've hoped to be more impressed by CineStrings and maybe I still will be, but so far, the only thing that sounds substantially better to me are the shorts- they sound more dramatic and dynamic to me.

Also, some of the things I wish were in Cinematic Strings 2.0 are also missing in CineStrings, i.e. divisi, sordino, glissando/portamento, etc.


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## Hannes_F (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi prodigalson, welcome to this forum, and a Thank You for your mature reaction.

Also, I appreciate this thread, keep it up guys.


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## constaneum (Nov 27, 2013)

If you want gliss/portamento with speed control, I'll have to recommend LASS then. LASS is pretty versatile in that. I'm not siding Audiobro or what but just giving opinion base on product perspective.


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 27, 2013)

I'm suddenly slammed with work so had very little time to evaluate CineStrings. It confirms my first thoughts that it's much, much dryer than CineBrass, and that the legato is smooth and playable. I've had a fair few glitches, but I see others have said the same thing on the official thread and there's some good-sounding advice there that I need to check out.

I should say that - as happened with Sable - its made me yet again appreciate what an extraordinary thing LASS is. I guess I bought CineStrings mainly for a variation in tone or feel occasionally - actually they sound remarkably similar in my LASS setup based around the BatMan color, only a little brighter. I'll need quite a bit more time to experiment to see where CineStrings best fits in my template. Love the full articulations patch, gotta have that somewhere!


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## jamwerks (Nov 28, 2013)

Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> So this is coming from a HS user -... I immediately noticed how much air the library has. Perhaps sometimes a bit too much air. I like the space around the instruments, but what really surprises me is how little the instruments light up the room...


Hey Dan, no need to not give one's opinions imo. This is a user forum, for users to exchange idea, with the added plus (for us and them) of the presence of the developers.

I'm not totally unhappy with HS, especially with some sable mixed in low, but judging from the videos (I'm still DL'ing CineStrings), it seems to be a step up sonically. As far as "lighting-up the room", I see that as a very positive point, because filling it up (boomy) kills 3D it seems to me.

As for the other matter at hand, accusing OT for a possible trolling isn't cool. There was a better way to go about it. But, imo, Sascha's response is even worse, very un-gentleman-ish, something I already felt when he tuned-in to the SF Low-Brass thread. Why not just tune-in with a firm "no" as to the trolling, and turn it into a joke? Since he seems to have become part of OT, he has a lot to learn about communication.


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## germancomponist (Nov 28, 2013)

And not to forget: Even unpleasant thoughts should not be forbidden to publish. 

In my early post I said that it was a guess on my part and I hope that I am wrong!

So, relax!


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## AC986 (Nov 28, 2013)

germancomponist @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> FriFlo @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > ... And if this were a German conspiracy, the NSA would have uncovered that by now and banned this guy for live from ViControl ...
> ...



I have an Iron Cross somewhere you can have Gunther. :lol: 

Way to go Gunther!! :mrgreen:


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## Dan Mott (Nov 28, 2013)

The German conspiracy is the only thing that should never be discussed on this forum.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 28, 2013)

constaneum @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> If you want gliss/portamento with speed control, I'll have to recommend LASS then. LASS is pretty versatile in that. I'm not siding Audiobro or what but just giving opinion base on product perspective.



LASS is both more comprehensive and more expensive, however the comment I made had more to do with my ownership of Cinematic Strings 2 and what CineStrings would bring to the table. Tone quality is pretty subjective, of course.


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## Dan Mott (Nov 28, 2013)

jamwerks @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Dan Mott @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > So this is coming from a HS user -... I immediately noticed how much air the library has. Perhaps sometimes a bit too much air. I like the space around the instruments, but what really surprises me is how little the instruments light up the room...
> ...




The thing with commercial libs is that they all have flaws, regardless of dev reputation. These flaws can be a deal breaker and that is why it's so hard to purchase a library. I love the tone of HS better than any other library right now. However, HS does indeed have flaws. The short notes are all over the place, as well as the dynamics on them too. You can play at a low velocity, then you suddenly put your velocity stick up 2 or 3 numbers and... WAM... huge jump in dynamics. HS is far from what I'd call smooth. Also another huge flaw is customer service. I have, as well as many other people, requested some improvements, but this product seems to be abandoned. There is shit loads that could be improved and able to make it less tedious to work with.

EW is non existent here, besides Jay, but he didn't dev HS and that's the problem. I doubt Nick or Thomas come here often. I'd really like to know if they care about the product anymore... Major, Major flaw and leaves you in the dark.


CS. Deal breaker for me is tone. Plays way better than HS in the short note department and it's really smooth, but the tone just makes me not want to use it. It's personal preference really.

I do not have any of string libs. I am awaiting Berlin strings and Spitfires one. I am still also looking at Albion 2, but it's not until you sit down with the lib to really know if it does what you want it to do.


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## AC986 (Nov 28, 2013)

NYC Composer @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> constaneum @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > If you want gliss/portamento with speed control, I'll have to recommend LASS then. LASS is pretty versatile in that. I'm not siding Audiobro or what but just giving opinion base on product perspective.
> ...



Larry I don't have Cinestrings yet. Thinking about it. From what I have learned from all the very comprehensive videos so far is, based on other string libraries, including CS2 which I am happy to own, the main benefit so far is the shorts, divisi and perhaps above all imo, the actual recording room sound, which is subjective of course.


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## procreative (Nov 28, 2013)

I have not bought CineStrings, but I own CineBrass and CineWinds. I have noted their products have steadily improved and they do put effort into fixing their issues.

I did not buy it as I have so many string libraries already (HWS, Cinematic Strings, Sable, Symphonic Orchestra, Adagio, Action Strings) not to mention Da Capo, Vivace and Tutti!

So I am at saturation point.

However I think every library has its merit and if I were buying from scratch the decision would be harder.

The only thing lacking is Sordino and Portamento Legato. But in their favour is their keyswitch system based on velocity. And an instant sound.

Of all the libraries the one for me that nailed the GUI/Workflow is Cinematic Strings 2. Simple to use and easy to customise. A shame it lacks some of the other articulations.

There are things in every library that shine. But trying to combine the best bits of each is very difficult as each one has its sound. And some of the instruments sound very different in each. Viola for example sound quite different in timbre across the board (probably different makers and mic combinations).


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 28, 2013)

I only played with CineStrings for 20 minutes but I really like what I hear. I encountered some glitches in the performance but this might be because I am working with the Kontakt 5.2 beta patches - I am installing Mavericks now for this reason, so I know I am working with the latest patches 8) As someone else wrote, it is drier than CineBrass, but I guess that's mostly down to the strings being placed closer to the mice, naturally. 

However, I would have liked the ambient mics to have been placed further away - there's still a lot of rosin sound present even in the most wet mics - something that can pretty easily be turned down with EQ at least on the violins - a bit more worried about whether this can be done to the cellos and basses too. But I love the vibrato and control of it and the legato is pretty convincing, although the legato intervals seem to suffer from not having much vibrato on them, so you can hear the sound change from heavy vib (if you have the vibrato turned up), then to no so much vib, then back to heavy vib with each interval you play... those two are the only initial criticisms I have. I am sure it'll be a very useful library 8)


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## Allegro (Nov 28, 2013)

Having a listen to the demos and walk-through videos, I have to agree with others that the library sounds just a little drier (Not jaw-droppingly huge for the lack of a better term) than what I was expecting from CineSamples. There is a lot of room but the definition is still there. I think that they have made a compromise here, to give it a little definition and better playability and it definitely shows. The shorts sound great.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 28, 2013)

adriancook @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> NYC Composer @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > constaneum @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> ...



CineStrings has divisi?


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## SpaceOrch (Nov 28, 2013)

I'm actually thinking hard about this as well, I'm looking to purchase my first string library. I already own both CineWinds Core and CineBrass Pro, so naturally I was drawn to CineStrings since it should fit perfectly into my template. However, I am a little tentative and would like to hear from different opinions. Particularly, I'm looking at LASS Lite 2, which is slightly cheaper and comes with speed-controlled portamento transitions. It also comes with the Bat Man profile, which some people say smooths out the harshness of LASS.

1. How are the legato transitions? I've heard for some wet libraries (like Spitfire libraries) transitions can be very annoying to work with and tweak to sound the way you want. 

2. What would you recommend for a first string library? If it's CS's library I would like to grab it while it's on sale, unless you really think LASS or BS will sound much better.


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## AC986 (Nov 28, 2013)

NYC Composer @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> CineStrings has divisi?



Ah! Not sure. Thought someone had mentioned it. Please check because that may be a monumental mistake on my part.


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## woodsdenis (Nov 28, 2013)

NYC Composer @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> adriancook @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > NYC Composer @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> ...



No it doesn't . :cry:


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 28, 2013)

SpaceOrch @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> I'm actually thinking hard about this as well, I'm looking to purchase my first string library. I already own both CineWinds Core and CineBrass Pro, so naturally I was drawn to CineStrings since it should fit perfectly into my template. However, I am a little tentative and would like to hear from different opinions. Particularly, I'm looking at LASS Lite 2, which is slightly cheaper and comes with speed-controlled portamento transitions. It also comes with the Bat Man profile, which some people say smooths out the harshness of LASS.
> 
> 1. How are the legato transitions? I've heard for some wet libraries (like Spitfire libraries) transitions can be very annoying to work with and tweak to sound the way you want.
> 
> 2. What would you recommend for a first string library? If it's CS's library I would like to grab it while it's on sale, unless you really think LASS or BS will sound much better.



LASS is the Rock Of Gibraltar, and I think the same applies to Lite (although it has less heavy lifting to do, as the name implies). It's phenomenally consistent. Many times I've gone to use Sable, say, got frustrated at transitions or jumps, just said "sod it" and gone back to LASS for the part, even if I'd have preferred Sable for section-size or tone (if I was more patient, I'm sure I might be able to tweak it more). Including the BatMan profile in Lass Lite is a great bonus, so you can just play out of the box. Great that it counts towards a full purchase too... I still think it's my #1 recommendation.

Cinestrings is a terrific starter too, but - based on my early fumblings - has a few gremlins, but I must stress I've far from exhausted trying stuff like the HQ mode. It seems relatively resource heavy, but again all my opinions are very provisional. What I really like is the dryness - just add tail to taste - those meaty shorts and their legatos have come on leaps and bounds.


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## Ed (Nov 28, 2013)

germancomponist @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> prodigalson @ Wed Nov 27 said:
> 
> 
> > I know DJ just posted a vid with an extensive overview (which i just watched! thanks Daniel!) but I was just wondering if I could get a sense of how everyone was feeling about CS on first listen/work-thru? I'm LITERALLY a glass of whiskey away from purchasing CS but like many of you, am very curious about what Orchestral Tools comes up with next month...(but know thats gonna run me over $600 so purchasing both isn't feasible right now. )
> ...




Oh Gunther no why would you say that! 

It's not like he/she even said anything negative about it. Someone would have made this thread anyway.

Personally about Orch Tools, I don't have any of their libs as yet but I really love how creative and inventive they are and how they want to keep trying to do things differently and think outside the box compared to any other library. We have something like Colin and Troels Adagio concept which does that, and I feel OT is doing that as well but focusing on more like the opposite approach. I love having been able to watch all this since I first started in 2002. I remember when everyone was getting super excited by G-Town and then SAM Horns. Holy crap recording in a good ambient space actually sounds really good! Now to see that get to the stage were we have the recording quality down, we can record as many samples as we want, we just now have to figure out the tinest details which means coming up with new techniques. As much as I have criticised VSL for the sound of the room in the past their thinking allowed a huge leap forward. Back then I remember we only really had a demo or two and a vague description that it would involve some kind of phrases. Obviously people like today were like "omg this is the worst thing evar phrases can suck my...." Where people listened to the demos and were saying it was impossible and it must be some kind of prerecord phrase. It turned out they were right but not in the way they thought.

Anyway ramble ramble. Personally even if OT really were evil incarnate if they can come up with some awesome new ideas for others to then steal and build on in the coming years, then I don't mind sending a thankyou card to them when they are in prison


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 29, 2013)

With the gazillion sample libraries raining on us all, and with the world economy still struggling, one would have to be naive not to think that there might be some sharp elbows and quick tempers around thi$ time of year...


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## germancomponist (Nov 29, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> With the gazillion sample libraries raining on us all, and with the world economy still struggling, one would have to be naive not to think that there might be some sharp elbows and quick tempers around thi$ time of year...



+1


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## Casiquire (Nov 29, 2013)

Wow this forum is _frighteningly_ quick to jump to a conclusion. I was accused of being a notorious sample pirate in disguise within my first few posts. You guys do realize that the best way to welcome someone is to like...NOT make an unfounded accusation about everyone with a little number "1" in their post count, right? Because everybody on here will have that little number as their count at some point.

In any event, personally CineStrings doesn't excite me just because the articulations are so similar to CS2 that the only advantage of getting Core is having it in the same room as the rest of the CineSamples products. That's a major advantage for people who use CineSamples as their main libraries, yes, but it brings nothing new to the table for everyone else IMO. Also all of the official demos/walkthroughs and DanielJames's great recent walkthroughs expose a lot of flaws in the legatos. Unsteady transitions seem to run rampant through the library and it sticks out at me so vividly that I can hardly believe nobody else is mentioning this. So until we see how well these problems are smoothed out in updates, and until we see the patch list for Pro, I think it's wise to hold off if you aren't A, already using a ton of CineSamples products recorded at Sony, or B, absolutely in love with the sound. Note that I say "hold off" rather than "not buy" because a good articulation list for Pro and a good update could easily turn the tables.


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## star.keys (Nov 30, 2013)

Couldn't agree with Casiquire any more.

These annoying legato transitions (and synthetic nasal tone) in CineStrings are deal breaker to me. I asked this in the CS official commercial thread but CS guys, who seem to be otherwise promptly responding to the forum, seem to have conveniently passed this. These things are not easy to fix, there is no magic to it unless some of these things are resampled.

I will wait for Berlin Strings...


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## Polarity (Nov 30, 2013)

star.keys @ Sat 30 Nov said:


> Couldn't agree with Casiquire any more.
> 
> These annoying legato transitions (and synthetic nasal tone) in CineStrings are deal breaker to me. I asked this in the CS official commercial thread but CS guys, who seem to be otherwise promptly responding to the forum, seem to have conveniently passed this. These things are not easy to fix, there is no magic to it unless some of these things are resampled.
> 
> I will wait for Berlin Strings...



Indeed I didn't notice that in the walkthrough, overview and demos.
Maybe I'm deaf.
I will look for them today when I'll have it installed and working.
However yes, I loved the sound and the organizations of the patches (I'm bored of hundred of patches for every section...), as I did for CineBrass and CineWinds.
Let's see how they really behave under my hands, I will tell you.


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## germancomponist (Nov 30, 2013)

Ed @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Oh Gunther no why would you say that!
> 
> It's not like he/she even said anything negative about it. Someone would have made this thread anyway. ...



Ed, I thought and said this because it was his first post here on VI. For my taste it is something strange when someone starts here with such a post.... .


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Nov 30, 2013)

When I read this thread and GermanComponist´s assumption, I was very surpriced :-D

I would like to clarify the following:

1. To be honest, we always had a very friendly base with the Cinesamples guys and I really like what they do.
In the very early days of OT, Mike Patti was the one who helped us a lot on several topics.
I´m very thankfull for their help and that is something I´ll never forget.

2. They do very good products. I´m one of the many happy customers.
Cinestrings and Berlin Strings are way too different. The pricing is completely different as well
as the concepts and ideas. And as we all know, a single string library is never enough 

3. I´m not a marketing expert and I´m sure we could rise our sellings with a longer announcement period.
This time this period will be pretty short. I hadn´t enough time for it. 
I´m a composer and I conceptualize our libraries how it works great with my workflow and we sell exactly that product.
We went out this week with the announcement because our plan is to release BS before christmas.
It wasn´t our plan to hijack the Cinestrings release.

4. I never ever fake user comments and statements.


Best,
Hendrik


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 30, 2013)

Good for you, Hendrik - Gunther, I think an emoticon-free apology to our new member is in order.


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## EwigWanderer (Nov 30, 2013)

germancomponist started conspiracy theory here. He and all other of us should always think once more before pressing submit button. 

I don't have anything against you Gunther personally. Just maybe think about what to post and assume.

One of the worst and the same time funniest thing here in Finland is Apple vs. Nokia vs. Samsung. Everybody has a impression of their favorite brand and they say anything bad about the other brands only focusing some of the glitches they heard on the news and forgetting about fixes and updates. Some of them even start to fight over it in real life. I hope that it doesn't go to that in here!!

What I'm trying to say is that this forum is (in my opinion) different than many others. We have a close relationship with the developers. Let's cherish that! If you are angry as hell...punch a wall, before posting 8) If you go to a shop yelling and hitting your fist on the counter because your phone is broken, you won't get good and fast service. Go in with patience and the salesman will help you faster. 

And about Sascha: I hope he stays. He is a very talented composer and I use many of his tracks as a reference music when I try to mix my music. I also have asked him some advice one time and he was very kind to help me out with more that two sentence.

of to drink some beer... o-[][]-o


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## germancomponist (Nov 30, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> Good for you, Hendrik - Gunther, I think an emoticon-free apology to our new member is in order.



I see no reason why my post from Wednesday is dramatized. *I also wrote that I hoped that my guess is wrong!*

Ok, I have allowed myself to provoke later, that was not ok. But that is human and not just happening to me.


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## Polarity (Nov 30, 2013)

Casiquire @ Sat 30 Nov said:


> Also all of the official demos/walkthroughs and DanielJames's great recent walkthroughs expose a lot of flaws in the legatos. Unsteady transitions seem to run rampant through the library and it sticks out at me so vividly that I can hardly believe nobody else is mentioning this.



Guy Rowland said "but - based on my early fumblings - has a few gremlins".

Well, after I played around a copule of hours with it, I would say that CineStrings has many more than a few gremlins!
I love the sound... but I'm so annoyed by how it's behaving under my hands.

I find terrible the performance of the legato, as already said by others... 
with poliphonic, playing continously and not slow I get often notes that don't start, notes that stuck and play longer alone even after I released the other notes...

On some short articulations when note is released, I heard noises like the player hit something around him. 

I heard glitches and holes in the sound when using Hairpin Creator and moving the Mod wheel for dynamics (if you play in vibrato it's much more evident). 
All these glitches don't happen (with hairpin deactivated) if you do manually with CC11 Expression wheel what Hairpin does automatically.

Wow, I can't say I'm enjoying CineStrings till now... I have shut down Kontakt to not getting myself more nervous for today. 
I'm so disappointed today that I wonder if purchasing CineBrass and CineWinds bundles now! :cry:
Maybe I need 24 hours at least to rethink after a refreshing sleep. 

:cry: :roll:


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## Polarity (Nov 30, 2013)

is this still a topic about what the title asks?
or is it now just the conspiracy matter has taken over?


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## prodigalson (Nov 30, 2013)

germancomponist @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> Ed, I thought and said this because it was his first post here on VI. For my taste it is something strange when someone starts here with such a post.... .



There's absolutely no apology necessary. Germancomponist is entitled to his opinions. 

Although Im reluctant to continue this pointless discussion, I'm curious germancomponist, what exactly would have been an "appropriate" first post on VI? I think it would be good to know what your rules are so that we can form guidelines for future members. 

And thank you Hendrik for weighing in. I'm a big fan of your products (though just to be clear, I don't actually work for you, although I'm sure you already know this :wink: ) 

I'm also a fan of CineSamples line being a happy owned of both CineWinds and CineBrass bundles as well as other products. (though again, to be clear, I don't work for them either)

Again, I apologize to the forum for any drama caused with this post and hope that the conspiracy issue can be dropped and we can get back to discussing the libraries.


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## PlasticMoonRain (Dec 7, 2013)

To the topic at hand, everybody, instead of silly bickering, which takes everybody off the track:

Having taken Cinestrings through the paces for about 10 days, I have to say that so far, I just don't like the tone. With the exception of the shorts and the full ensemble (and even the latter has its iffy moments), I am not crazy about how this library sounds.

It does sound a bit synthetic and wispy, and not at all as authentic as the other libraries in my collection (Albion, CS2, Sable).

This is going to be a lot of work to somehow make this seem and feel right.

I do like the hairpin creator and it works beautifully. 

But this seems like a real mixed bag, especially when you fire up the long and sustains. 

I give Daniel James a hell of a lot of credit in making this library sound good in his Ableton Live (!!) demo, but I'm really on the fence on whether this was money well spent or not.


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## MA-Simon (Dec 7, 2013)

> The pricing is completely different as well



May I please weep openly now? 
I knew it had got to be a very expensive undertaking. 
But that comment just pushed all my feeble hopes on a _similar_ price to the grave.

Looking forward to it nonetheless.


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## peksi (Dec 8, 2013)

passion and emotions are bread and butter of composer. let us take this thread as a proof of great talent amongst us.


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## mark812 (Dec 8, 2013)

Darryl Jackson @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> The only one that might (might!) be left in the dust in the coming months is CS2, since CineStrings is edging into its territory both in price range, ease of use, and has more articulations. That said, there are many composers here who have mocked up fantastic emotional pieces with CS2 with minimal mixing, so even then there is something to be said for its out of the box tone.



Newer isn't necessarily better. I really like CineBrass, but CS2 is more intuitive to use and have better tone than CineStrings, at least to my ears.


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## IFM (Dec 8, 2013)

I have CS2 and HS and find I use HS a majority of the time...but not always. HS of course has a lot more to offer but sometimes I need CS for some passages. CineStrings seems great but pretty much repeats what I already have. 
Chris


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## PlasticMoonRain (Dec 8, 2013)

CS2 has a lush sound and a fairly good deal of flexibility. And while CIneStrings has far more articulations and twists and turns which are admirable, it still boils down to the sound and tone. Other than the shorts, it just doesn't sound right or all that real to me.

Yes, I think we should be nicknaming Daniel James "Rapunzel" after his CineStrings video, because he certainly can spin straw into gold. All power to him.

Personally, I am just bummed that I spent what I did on CineStrings and I'm not quite sure what I am going to get out of it. I seriously need to exhibit better self control.


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## Casiquire (Dec 9, 2013)

PlasticMoonRain @ Sun 08 Dec said:


> Yes, I think we should be nicknaming Daniel James "Rapunzel" after his CineStrings video, because he certainly can spin straw into gold. All power to him.



Wasn't that Rumpelstiltskin? In any case I felt let down just by the articulation list. Hopefully Pro will fill it out better.


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## PlasticMoonRain (Dec 9, 2013)

> Wasn't that Rumpelstiltskin? In any case I felt let down just by the articulation list. Hopefully Pro will fill it out better.



Don't think I'll be buying that.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 9, 2013)

I quite like the tone of Cinestrings and as usually, love the setup and functionality. I'm a bit disappointed with the polyphonic legato, doesn't seem to work as well as their brass and winds. And there is at least one note so far that has some weird sound so obvious I don't know how it got through production. This one is one one of the marcatos, cello I think, and is showing that the RR is obviously 2, not 3 because this weird sound pops out every second hit. I hope that doesn't mean they are all less RR than advertised.


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## zvenx (Dec 9, 2013)

LASS Lite has sadly made me gun shy about blindingly buying any sample library that costs over $150 US.
I wanted to like Cinestrings, it has lots of the articulations and ease of you I think I would like, but I sadly haven't heard any demo where the sound excites me. It sounds more like LASS (which I still dislike) than Cinematic Strings 2 (which I still love)...

rsp


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## TGV (Dec 9, 2013)

zvenx @ Tue Dec 10 said:


> LASS Lite has sadly made me gun shy about blindingly buying any sample library that costs over $150 US.
> I wanted to like Cinestrings, it has lots of the articulations and ease of you I think I would like, but I sadly haven't heard any demo where the sound excites me. It sounds more like LASS (which I still dislike) than Cinematic Strings 2 (which I still love)...
> 
> rsp


Hey, I recognize those sentiments. I got LASS Lite 2.0 too, some time ago. I'm sure that it's spiccatos are powerful, but you shouldn't push the mod wheel to high, everyone knows that; those samples are just there for fun. And no, it's not out of tune, that's, erm, realistic character. EQ? Of course you've to to EQ, but we won't tell you how. It's light on resources, but what a bitch to tame at that price.

So nothing against Cinestrings, buy I'm pretty cautious about buying new libs too, now. Once bitten, twice shy.


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## AC986 (Dec 10, 2013)

PlasticMoonRain @ Mon Dec 09 said:


> > Wasn't that Rumpelstiltskin? In any case I felt let down just by the articulation list. Hopefully Pro will fill it out better.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't think I'll be buying that.



I think it's unfortunate when things like this happen. I looked at this library with a little more than a cursory glance when the videos came out and thought it sounded good. But then I noticed an inkling of some timbres in some of the video examples I didn't really go for. That is always enough for me to back away.

The issue for me is not being able to financially afford to make mistakes. With Orchestral Strings and Spitfire's Mural on the horizon, you are getting a lot of choices. 

A lot of people can afford to have them all and use them for different musical styles and applications and I wish I could do that. Once you buy these things, you can't go back and you can't sell a lot of them either, so I try and go through something perhaps too much before I hit buy.

It's a bit like buying stocks and shares and not being able to sell them. But I can sort of understand why they do that and anyway selling only dissipates part of the problem.


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## Sid Francis (Dec 10, 2013)

TGV @ Tue 10 Dec said:


> zvenx @ Tue Dec 10 said:
> 
> 
> > LASS Lite has sadly made me gun shy about blindingly buying any sample library that costs over $150 US.
> ...



Thank you for these words so I am not alone :? I only got LASS LS but all points are true for these too. It was the most disappointing purchase I ever made at first. This changed however when I started to mix my own strings. My string template for the longs alone is 25 channels :D I feel like a cook adding spices. And LASS LS definitly is the first ingredient after "salt and pepper" For example it mixed very well with the otherwise unloved Session Strings Pro. These improve very much with the occasional ,ahm, "liveliness"  
And things definitly grew better after update 2.5. The "Private Ryan" preset takes away a lot of the harshness. Choose "Lost" and your definitly on the dull side. I very much appreciated the update since it solved some problems


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## grayedout (Dec 10, 2013)

I really like the Hairpin , I think the sound is different to CS2 and Spitfire. but I am having major problems using the Ensemble Patches .. they use 30 voices for a single note..! I am talking to there support team at the moment. There is no mention of the Ensemble patch betting created but layering single instruments on there web site or youtube demo.. CS2 Full uses 12.. and Albion uses 3.! CineBrass is so playable which I why I bought the Cinestrings I have no complaint about the sound but I can not use the Ensemble patches in real work.. not very happy about that..


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 10, 2013)

After having used it (not extensively) on a project, my thoughts are, that the dynamics are not great enough. I feel that the lower dynamics work very well, but I just don't get the feeling that the players are really playing a passionate ff when you push the wheel all the way up - this goes for all sections really. So I can't say that this will be my "to go" library, but it definitely has its uses. 

Also, as pretty much everybody pointed out, the legato system doesn't work too well, there are noticable volume differences and vibrato differences between the legato intervals and the sustain samples... so unfortunately I think this is a somewhat flawed library, at least regarding the sustains. The rest of the library I haven't used so much yet (I used the tremolos, they are very nice) so I can't really make any judgment on that yet.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 10, 2013)

Simon Ravn @ Tue Dec 10 said:


> After having used it (not extensively) on a project, my thoughts are, that the dynamics are not great enough. I feel that the lower dynamics work very well, but I just don't get the feeling that the players are really playing a passionate ff when you push the wheel all the way up - this goes for all sections really. So I can't say that this will be my "to go" library, but it definitely has its uses.
> 
> Also, as pretty much everybody pointed out, the legato system doesn't work too well, there are noticable volume differences and vibrato differences between the legato intervals and the sustain samples... so unfortunately I think this is a somewhat flawed library, at least regarding the sustains. The rest of the library I haven't used so much yet (I used the tremolos, they are very nice) so I can't really make any judgment on that yet.



You know you can adjust legato volume right? Or you mean it's inconsistent? I haven't really had a problem with this. And when you push the wheel up for passionate playing, are you also pushing up cc#2? That's where the vibrato gets introduced through two different styles, the second being the more expressive one. Full mod wheel and max vibrato should be pretty passionate.

And I don't feel the sound is much like LASS at all. The tuning is much more even and it's smoother, especially with the room mics. Does have good powerful shorts like LASS but it's far more of an out of the box sound.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 11, 2013)

Getting into this more, overall loving the library, a few niggles though. 

I'm finding the release samples have barely any room in them, even the surround and room mics. It sounds like they are cut off rather abuptly with no natural reverb. Is anyone else finding this? No big deal to use a reverb for tail but the winds and brass I thought were less abrupt. Still versatile recordings and I still love the sound.

Also some samples are noisy. Thuds, clacks, rustles and other interesting sounds happening in there. Still enjoy the library and most of these wouldn't be too apparent in a busy mix but exposed some will pop out for sure.

The main thing for me is stuck notes in the poly legato and things not triggering right. They've said that the poly legato script from Cinebrass didn't work properly but I can't understand that. What does it matter what the samples are? Both have sustains and legato samples, it should trigger just the same. Cinebrass poly legato works much better. I was not expecting that.


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## grayedout (Dec 16, 2013)

So no one else having problems playing the Ens which is 30/40 voices per note ?


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## RiffWraith (Dec 16, 2013)

grayedout @ Mon Dec 16 said:


> So no one else having problems playing the Ens which is 30/40 voices per note ?



I have not loaded any of the Ens patches, b/c they are just not something I would ever use. Which patch specifically are you having an issue with? I will load that patch and see if I come across anything weird.

Cheers.


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## Polarity (Dec 16, 2013)

It's just a couple of days that "finally" had the time and head to put me at using CineStrings, while I'm just in the middle of redoing all my orchestral templates in VEPRO.

Well I tried the full mix of Ensemble Sustains and it was for me (in a word) "unplayable"!!
I think it's better to layer the single sections (selecting all five tracks in the DAW) already in the template.
Anyway I went for LASS Lite 2.0 patches (so to use the ARC colour) and I made my "sketch"full ensemble patch layering the five single "Full Leg Sus NV-vib" patches,
deactivating legato, portamento and glissato, activating full nonvibrato to vibrato layers,
and reprogramming the auto arranger using custom rules and sections note limits.
Did the same also for LASS Lite Sordino sections.

More, a few words about the use of Sforzando split patch:
I remember someone complaining about missing in the True Legatos patches the option to use Sforzando as attack overlay.
Well I just put the split patch on its own channel (so I can select it in DAW just when I need to layer it), selected the custom map and assigned the Short Dynamics to CC#1
(in general I prefer to use Keyswitch maps with CineStrings), last I increased the legato speed.
Actually - after disabling legato in the Tru Legato patch - I find that this combo layer can work for doing string runs...
True Legato + Sforzando split patch.
am I mad?


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## Polarity (Dec 16, 2013)

uh, I'm not using the internal reverb...
I deactivated every single patch reverb and I'm using external reverb plugin.


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## dcoscina (Dec 16, 2013)

Sorry to be a bit of a dickweed here but why would some of you with Lass and Cinematic Strings and Hollywood Strings but CineStrings? Moreover, did iu listen to the demos before pulling the trigger? I love and own a lot of CS libraries but wasn't too excited about their string library and held off accordingly. I also own several other libs and aside from the slick CS way of entering and alternating between long and short notes, I didn't see any reason to spend $500. Just my personal opinion, nothing more nothing less.


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## korgscrew (Dec 16, 2013)

I like the Hairpin Idea, but its sounds nothing Like Adagio from 8Dio. 

CS sounds great, but not something I need in my template right now. I need more expressive strings. Sable is doing a great job at the moment, but im itching for adagio's expressiveness and double bows. Will have to wait and see what Berlin Strings, mural and Adadio Vol 2 have to offer!

It seems 8Dio are leading the future in dynamic sampling, but none are following. The market is saturated with string libraries all of a sudden! But, nobody is coming out with anything new. Same articulations in a different room.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 16, 2013)

dcoscina @ Mon Dec 16 said:


> Sorry to be a bit of a dickweed here but why would some of you with Lass and Cinematic Strings and Hollywood Strings but CineStrings? Moreover, did iu listen to the demos before pulling the trigger? I love and own a lot of CS libraries but wasn't too excited about their string library and held off accordingly. I also own several other libs and aside from the slick CS way of entering and alternating between long and short notes, I didn't see any reason to spend $500. Just my personal opinion, nothing more nothing less.



For me as a LASS and Albion I/II/III owner, the appeal of Cinestrings was mainly a combination of the sound and the speed of getting going. Kind of an in between of what I had where there are separate sections, lots of detail, but I can load up generally one patch and go. The polyphonic legato was a big reason too as I love the other Cinestrings poly legatos, but this one isn't as good unfortunately. Some other goodies like the the different attacks on the sustains appealed to me as well.


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## Ash Ebrahim (Dec 16, 2013)

i recently bought cinestrings based on how good cinebrass pro and cinewinds pro have been for me... i was really hoping that it would sound as good as the other two so i can have most of the orchestral instruments playing in the same hall.. but i am disappointed..

1st i am not the greatest programmer so buying a library that ill have to tweak the sh** out just doesnt work for me.. 2nd not playable , lots of notes getting stuck especially when playing legato patches sometimes it will get stuck and sometimes it will drop..

one thing that struck me the most is that the velocity and dynamics behaved differently every time.. was working on a piece of music and was trying to play the theme , actually i was still working on the theme so was mostly improvising using violins 1 legato and it was almost impossible to enjoy playing and to get in the mood cause i didnt know what to expect every time i hit a note or touched a modwheel....

having an instrument or a sound or a library that will inspire is frigging key for me...

example.. everytime i play with the high strings short ostinatum patch in albion especially in that lower register i get so inspired and instantly come up with ideas simply cause it sounds good , easy to play and realistic.

example 2... using the 12 horn patch from cinebrass pro... i remember the fisrt time i auditioned that patch.. i was like holly fudge and instantly came up with a theme for a song...

this library didnt have that effect on me... i have been forced to try and tweak it for the past 2 weeks so i can make it playable so i can atleast justify the 450 canadian dollars that i spent...

i still love u cinesamples but u guys owe me.. o-[][]-o


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## rJames (Dec 16, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> The main thing for me is stuck notes in the poly legato and things not triggering right. They've said that the poly legato script from Cinebrass didn't work properly but I can't understand that. What does it matter what the samples are? Both have sustains and legato samples, it should trigger just the same. Cinebrass poly legato works much better. I was not expecting that.



I agree. Not fun to program.

Shorts sound great but volumes on sustains are not matched so it can be tough to play the phrase you have in mind.

Poly legato... :evil:


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## grayedout (Dec 17, 2013)

I have tried Ensemble Sustain Full Mix they use around 30/40 Voices for a single note and Multi Mic uses 70/80 voices.. it just to much CPU over head you can run into 300/400 voice buy playing a 3 note cord .!!

I have contacted CineSamples as I bought this Library for the Ensemble patches.. I already have better sounding individual strings.. I see know info on there site or on the PDF that the Ensemble sections are made up by layering . I am very unhappy with this


Andy


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## germancomponist (Dec 17, 2013)

I remember for this reason I had re-sampled the old EWQLSO ensemble patches. Worked very fine... .


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## TimCox (Dec 17, 2013)

I've found that I need to just stop watching Daniel James' videos.

It's not that they aren't great (amazing? fantabulous?), it's just that my wallet has this nasty habit of jumping out after watching them.


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## Polarity (Dec 17, 2013)

dcoscina @ Mon 16 Dec said:


> Sorry to be a bit of a dickweed here but why would some of you with Lass and Cinematic Strings and Hollywood Strings but CineStrings? Moreover, did iu listen to the demos before pulling the trigger? I love and own a lot of CS libraries but wasn't too excited about their string library and held off accordingly. I also own several other libs and aside from the slick CS way of entering and alternating between long and short notes, I didn't see any reason to spend $500. Just my personal opinion, nothing more nothing less.



Well, I had only LASS Lite and EWQLSO Gold mainly for Strings:
of the latter I have the original Kontakt version and the Play version as well, with the Close mics addition...

Well, consider that I also want to reduce the more I can the use of Play in my VEPRO templates because I don't find so much confortable the UI and the RAM usage... and that's why I don't have Hollywood Strings too.

I liked the sound of Cinematic Strings from demos, but I thought it was not easy to manage it with the few RAM I had till the first quarter of this year...

Probably I should have bought it now, but CineStrings seemed to have "better" short articulations and I did like a lot its Sony stage sound from the demos.
Actually I like a lot the CineStrings more intense vibrato compared to LASS quieter one, and the softer dynamics seem to sound very well.

Honestly I also thought (like others here) it was behaving good as CineBrass and CineWinds... not expecting problems with polyphonic legato.
But if I'm not wrong also CineBrass and CineWinds had issues as 1.0...
so I'm faithful CineSamples team will fix the issues in CineStrings. 

I'll also spend time programming the arpeggiator plugin to play the role of the ones that come in Albion and LASS.

Perhaps I should have bought Spitfire Albion instead of almost all CineSamples orchestra? 
Well I don't know at the moment... 
anyway I have the 25% discount voucher got with HZ01, so I will consider it.
By now I got the boat, therefore I will try to make it sail... o/~


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 18, 2013)

Strugging with notes dropping out. Even just with monophonic legato lines and some vibrato modulation. Notes are just cutting off mid note all over. Not sure if it's a Kontakt issue or what. Not fun though.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 23, 2013)

Thought this tip needs to go in this thread - I think the cause of my dropped notes is solved by going into the wrench, and hitting the the HQ button. That's it - everything now playing normally (on a first test anyway).

I'd strongly urge the CS guys on the next update to default to "HQ on" - I just have a feeling an awful lot of the negative response is just down to this one simple thing that's fixed in about 2 seconds. Also Kontakt Player owners need a way of adjusting it, cos at the moment they can't, and it's pretty debilitating.

Also felt it was important to say that, now I'm not spending most of my time thinking "why the hell are all the notes dropping out", I think it plays great and sounds great. really looking forward to spending more quality time with it in 2014.


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## germancomponist (Dec 23, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> Thought this tip needs to go in this thread - I think the cause of my dropped notes is solved by going into the wrench, and hitting the the HQ button. That's it - everything now playing normally (on a first test anyway).
> 
> I'd strongly urge the CS guys on the next update to default to "HQ on" - I just have a feeling an awful lot of the negative response is just down to this one simple thing that's fixed in about 2 seconds. Also Kontakt Player owners need a way of adjusting it, cos at the moment they can't, and it's pretty debilitating.
> 
> Also felt it was important to say that, now I'm not spending most of my time thinking "why the hell are all the notes dropping out", I think it plays great and sounds great. really looking forward to spending more quality time with it in 2014.



Great post, Guy!


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## AC986 (Dec 23, 2013)

prodigalson @ Tue Nov 26 said:


> I know DJ just posted a vid with an extensive overview (which i just watched! thanks Daniel!) but I was just wondering if I could get a sense of how everyone was feeling about CS on first listen/work-thru? I'm LITERALLY a glass of whiskey away from purchasing CS but like many of you, am very curious about what Orchestral Tools comes up with next month...(but know thats gonna run me over $600 so purchasing both isn't feasible
> 
> Thanks!



If you're going to pay $500 plus on software that you licence, in other words you don't even actually own it, regardless of who makes it, you should expect it to be prefect out of the box. The business of stuff like updates, that will come fast and furious is lame in the extreme. It's almost looking like who gets their string library or whatever it is out first.

I don't see how this can go on when you're talking about pretty substantial sums of money. These things should be perfect and should only need a few improvements, not necessarily fixes.

In the end , people will start to get a pretty radical mentality when it comes to parting with cash for this stuff if this doesn't get resolved which is not great for anyone in the long run.

Take a program like say Lightroom 5. It's near damn perfect when you download it. Doesn't need that much in the way of updates. Sample library developers should check this stuff to breaking point before they deliver it.


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## Polarity (Dec 23, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Mon 23 Dec said:


> Thought this tip needs to go in this thread - I think the cause of my dropped notes is solved by going into the wrench, and hitting the the HQ button. That's it - everything now playing normally (on a first test anyway).
> 
> I'd strongly urge the CS guys on the next update to default to "HQ on" - I just have a feeling an awful lot of the negative response is just down to this one simple thing that's fixed in about 2 seconds. Also Kontakt Player owners need a way of adjusting it, cos at the moment they can't, and it's pretty debilitating.
> 
> Also felt it was important to say that, now I'm not spending most of my time thinking "why the hell are all the notes dropping out", I think it plays great and sounds great. really looking forward to spending more quality time with it in 2014.



I agree with you Guy.
Anyway I tried this evening the HQ mode... but it didn't change too much it's behaving...
It is only using the double of voices now... but still under 50; against a 10 times maximum limit....
hmm I have to try more perhaps but for now I will simply not use the poly legato; not a big deal actually.
In any case if doing correct orchestration it will be rare that I'll make two notes playing at the same time on the same section... 

Anyway I went over because I had to finish to revamp my template with all the other new libraries, so I will be able to get back on work on projects. o/~ o=< 

I like VERY MUCH the sound of CineStrings: I don't know what is the problem that some have found with it. 
I like the legato (mono) ... and I find great the vibrato/expressive.
I probably found (after experimenting with CineBrass) my own custom map settings for the Articulations patches, because I didn't find myself confortable with none of the presets.

The shorts string have a strong character that I like, but unluckily seem to have the most of the "alien" noises after string sound (wood creaks, bumps, papers, mouth snaps or "shhh" voices)...
I'm trying to get the time to write down which notes have them.


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## Aquatone (Dec 23, 2013)

> If you're going to pay $500 plus on software that you licence, in other words you don't even actually own it, regardless of who makes it, you should expect it to be prefect out of the box. The business of stuff like updates, that will come fast and furious is lame in the extreme. It's almost looking like who gets their string library or whatever it is out first.
> 
> I don't see how this can go on when you're talking about pretty substantial sums of money. These things should be perfect and should only need a few improvements, not necessarily fixes.
> 
> ...



adriancook,

I sense that you are not happy. Years ago, I spent $750 on Sonic Implants Symphonic Strings, $3,000 on EWQLSO (Kontakt version) so roughly $750 on the strings…cutting edge 10 years ago. These are just two examples. I spent around $400 for Cinestrings. I can safely say I prefer using Cinestrings to the other two. So, be consoled, the products are getting better and the prices are going down.

As far as perfection, I don't know or care what Lightroom 5 is. It's existence is irrelevant, to me. The sample libraries you have eluded to are what is available. But you have revealed an exciting opportunity to yourself. You have identified a potential in the marketplace. I would recommend you seize this opportunity and create a "damn near perfect" product that we can pass judgement on. If you can, I'm sure many would part with "substantial sums of money" since, as you infer, we are content to purchase mediocrity. Nay, I demand you create it to save me from a "pretty radical mentality". Wouldn't you rather earn all of our money than give your cash to heartless developer. I think you may be on to something. Well done. I wish you success!


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## Aquatone (Dec 23, 2013)

Hi Polarity,

I feeling jolly this evening and might be able to help. I can't guarantee. I looked back at some of your posts. I'd like to help. To save time, what was the exact problems you are having? Was it a voice count thing or notes dropping out?

I'll open up Cinestrings and see if I can recreate the problem. If you are willing.

Matt


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## Polarity (Dec 23, 2013)

Well, I believe that talking about software, it's almost impossible to make a perfect product at first round... and especially with similar huge projects like CineStrings.
You can't expect the perfection, never.

QLSO Strings?
Well, except for a very few patches it seems now terribly "flat" compared to the "life" that CineStrings has... ~o) 
I'm just comparing them during these days while replacing the former with the new one.

And I can say the same of Brass and Winds sections of QLSO compared to CineBrass and CineWinds...


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## AC986 (Dec 23, 2013)

Aquatone @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> I sense that you are not happy. Years ago, I spent $750 on Sonic Implants Symphonic Strings, $3,000 on EWQLSO (Kontakt version) so roughly $750 on the strings…cutting edge 10 years ago. These are just two examples. I spent around $400 for Cinestrings. I can safely say I prefer using Cinestrings to the other two. So, be consoled, the products are getting better and the prices are going down.



No I'm quite happy thanks. And I'm happy to see that you're happy too. I spent about $75 on Lightroom 5 and make more money from that than I do from any other software. Perhaps I'm not a very good musician. :idea: 

But there's more people out there that agree with me than will with you. :wink:


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## Aquatone (Dec 23, 2013)

Polarity,

I know some things will be lost in translation. My comparison to EWQLSO from 2001 and Sonic Implants from 2002 was to illustrate how far technology has evolved and the value. There was intended sarcasm in there, too.

As far as your trouble with Cinestrings, I read all the posts about it on this thread. Are you using the Full Patch in your template and splitting out articulations for your own overlays?

Or, are you using each section Vln 1 Vln2 etc?

Matt


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## rJames (Dec 23, 2013)

Adrian, I think I'm one of them. I mean I think I agree with you.

I don't expect software to be "perfect," whatever that is. But it is true that the bugs you see in software are less likely to kill your workflow.

That said, sample libraries are a totally different beast. One bad sample can ruin a library, if it is a note that you need often. Even one bad round robin can just play havoc in your work process. And these are organic recordings not programmed code.

But the code should be pretty well worked out.

I'm a bit dissatisfied with CineStrings but hope that the programming can be worked out quickly. And I do have to wonder if the programmers never had trouble with the poly legato. I sometimes get poly when I don't want it and sometimes can't get it when I want it. You have to be so careful with the "gap," that it changes what I wanted as a phrase. I will be turning it off. But its nice to have when you don't have dividi. (and Cinesamples did a LOT to keep voice count down for us who don't have the latest DAW setup) THanks for that!!

It just seems nearly impossible that the beta testers and programmers didn't find these issues.

But the real important thing to me (and I'd love your help on this Aquatone), is getting the shorts and sustains into a phrase where the attacks match.

I struggled the first couple of times I tried this and am less and less likely to continue to struggle instead of write.

Aquatone, write a phrase where all of the attacks match like this," di-di-daaaa," where di stands for a spicatto note and daaaa for a sustain.

Or "da-da-daaa-da-daaaaaa," where the da is a staccato note.

I find it difficult to do this at a pp cause its hard to get the spics to play softly and hard to do at fff cause the legato doesn't play loud.

And also try it at mf cause its just hard to get them (spiccato/staccato vs sustain) to play together.

I'm finding it difficult to make a smooth phrase.


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## Aquatone (Dec 23, 2013)

rJames,

I was doing a similar thing the other day. Have you tried using the spiccato or even staccato overlay on the final sustain or "long" in the phrase? I have used a Marcato instead of a Sustain, just a thought.

Yes, I have thoughts about beta testers but that is another topic and I will stay out of that one.

Addendum:
The line I was doing was sort of the inverse of what you are trying to do. It was a spiccato going into a sixteenth note legato run ending on a staccato. I used CC#9 to bring in the spiccato overlay. The tempo was around 160. It worked well. Doing all spiccato wasn't as nice even though it would have been fine at that tempo. Also, I'm sure you do this, but the Legato notes need to be pulled forward a bit. The manual talks about a 50ms offset, however, lower legato velocities naturally have a little more swell to their attack. 50ms may be good of shorts but I have to use my ear on the sustains.

Matt


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## rJames (Dec 23, 2013)

Aquatone @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> rJames,
> 
> I was doing a similar thing the other day. Have you tried using the spiccato or even staccato overlay on the final sustain or "long" in the phrase? I have used a Marcato instead of a Sustain, just a thought.
> 
> ...



Yes, I've struggled and struggled with the overlays... all 4 types. And why does the velocity need to be above 110 to trigger these???

Default for cc9 is 1 which means no overlay. Set it when you want it keep it at 1 when you don't want it.

Use the velocity for volume of the overlay.

Ron


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## Aquatone (Dec 23, 2013)

The overlays are on P.13
0-24: Disabled
25-49: Spiccato
50-74: Staccato
75-99: Marcato 100-127: Sforzando
A velocity of 111 and up will trigger them.

From the manual…
Also note: By default there is a slight staccato overlay that is triggered when you play legatos extremely fast. This staccato is barely mixed in but does aid in making faster legato transitions speak better.

I think in your case the overlay would help. Bear in mind the Marcato will be longer. So consider the tempo. Sfz might be best. I hope that helps.


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## Aquatone (Dec 23, 2013)

> And why does the velocity need to be above 110 to trigger these???



Ron,
I don't know because I do not work for them. However, I would suppose it is so you can treat the overlay as an accent while you are performing. Which makes sense. You can change the triggering of the overlay to a lower velocity, if desired. Should be on P.21 in the manual. I hope this helps.

On the poly legato, I think it works best if I play very tightly or if I edit after the fact. I don't know if it's any better or worse than Cinebrass or Cinewinds. I like the poly legato on the horn ensembles but not as much on the solo horn. I'm undecided because the poly "illusion" may just work better with brass and woods. The legato transitions are different than their mono counterpart in Cinebrass. I know I have used it sparingly in Cinestrings and keep mainly in mono legato and keyswitch to poly legato. If I want divisi, LASS is designed for this. So, I keep poly legato to a minimum. I think most libraries that offer this feature will sound better if you used multiple instances of mono legato. A matter of give and take I reckon. 

The Full patch, and full patches in general, I treat as a synth. They are fun to play but using the proper sections is my preference. Full patches pan to whichever part of the orchestra the sample is coming from depending on range. Not that I haven't cheated on a crunch.

I must add that while the Dennis Sands presets are just fine, I use my own combinations. One cue I used just the close mics and it was a bit "raw" sounding. In the mix it really worked. I find that the noises don't really come through in a mix. And, there are those little sounds in other libraries. I think there was a thread of them years ago. Some are funny. There are several in EWQLSO. Like someone saying "Again?" in a release. But they've never caused me to lose sleep.


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## rJames (Dec 23, 2013)

Hey Aquatone, thanks for spending so much time. I feel bad cause I wasn't saying I didn't read the manual or that I don't know where the various overlay attacks kick in but rather that they just don't work.

Seriously, try to make a phrase where you have two shorts followed by a sustain and try to match each of the attacks.

Think of a fanfare.

da-da-daaaaa (sometimes the sustain attack is even louder than the shorts.

da-da-daaaa-da-daaaaaa (fanfare-esque)

Or a melody. Daaaa-da-da-daaa da-da-daaaa-daaaaa Love to hear your result. (please post)

Even though it might be acceptable...well, at least I have not been able to make it sound good or real.


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## RiffWraith (Dec 23, 2013)

I don't know Ron, it sounds fine to me. Of course it takes a little adjusting, but the results are good if you spend a couple of secs:

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/CSTest.mp3

Unless I am completely missing what you are saying?


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## Arbee (Dec 23, 2013)

I haven't take the plunge on this yet but, despite any launch issues, I find the overall tone very natural and easy on the ear (unlike some other string libraries where I'm waiting for that "fingernails on the chalk board" moment when the violins start getting into their higher register).

.


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## Aquatone (Dec 23, 2013)

Ron,

Do not feel bad. Since this is a forum, I thought giving detail about the points you brought up deserved a thorough response. This would maybe be a quick reference for you or others who may have not had as much time to spend with the manual.

The fine example the RiffWraith put up answers the request. It sounds like he might be using overlay + sustain on each note. But, depending on the length of the final note, I might try using the Marcato instead of the sustain + overlay. I'm sure you explored this, but there is always the possibility of drawing in a Sfz with CC#1 depending on the desired affect. The sustain attacks are different in the different layers. Although a string player can do just about anything, they have the tendency to have a slower attack on the lower dynamics. This library seems to go that direction but the overlay will give a little extra dig. As you know, the overlay is the same dynamic as the sustain. So, you might even want a CC#1 Sfz to match the short volume and the overlay for extra grit.

At any rate, there are several ways to approach a phrase for a string player. I think it is interesting that this library allows the user to approach a phrase from different angles. For example, a fast run could be legato, legato + attack overlay, or all short notes. All would work to varying degree. Now, we (the users) can make that decision based on our musical sense. I remember some famous violinist once said they could play the same note a hundred different ways. Isn't it interesting that we who use samples have always had just a few different ways to play a violin's note. Now, we are starting get a way to combine usable variables into a single instrument.

Gotta run. Sick kid to worry about now.
Matt


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## AC986 (Dec 24, 2013)

rJames @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> Adrian, I think I'm one of them. I mean I think I agree with you.
> 
> I don't expect software to be "perfect," whatever that is. But it is true that the bugs you see in software are less likely to kill your workflow.
> 
> I'm a bit dissatisfied with CineStrings but hope that the programming can be worked out quickly.



Ron I never mentioned any sample library developer specifically.

I don't own that many samples. I do however own or licence PIB and it has a good tone and for the price it turned out to be good value. I don't have Cinestrings, ergo no axe to grind on that one.

Ron there shouldn't really be that many bugs in the first place. These things should tested to destruction but seemingly time and worrying about what library the next developer is coming out with seems to have a detrimental effect.


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## AC986 (Dec 24, 2013)

Aquatone @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> Polarity,
> 
> I know some things will be lost in translation. My comparison to EWQLSO from 2001 and Sonic Implants from 2002 was to illustrate how far technology has evolved and the value. There was intended sarcasm in there, too.
> 
> Matt



Really? I never noticed that. That's a great sales technique you might want to develop.


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## Polarity (Dec 24, 2013)

Aquatone @ Tue 24 Dec said:


> Hi Polarity,
> 
> I feeling jolly this evening and might be able to help. I can't guarantee. I looked back at some of your posts. I'd like to help. To save time, what was the exact problems you are having? Was it a voice count thing or notes dropping out?
> 
> ...



Sorry, I went to sleep after my last post here and I've seen this only today.

Well, my problem is more on notes not starting (even with two notes chords) especially when re-hitting the same two notes.... 
just playing notes in poly legato mode, and not moving any dynamics or vibrato controller.
Using single sections... tried HQ with Violas, Violin I and Cellos yesterday.
Not used the Full Ensemble patch since first day I got it.

Hadn't chance to play today.
Now I have to go... you know, Christmas dinner incoming.
I will share with. you ASAP how I set up my three CineLibraries articulations patches with custom map and controllers: I tested it playing real time practicing on Raiders Of Lost Ark and other Williams's themes... I think it can work fine inside DAW editing too.
I think it could improve too discussing it with you here.


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## rJames (Dec 24, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> I don't know Ron, it sounds fine to me. Of course it takes a little adjusting, but the results are good if you spend a couple of secs:
> 
> http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/CSTest.mp3
> 
> Unless I am completely missing what you are saying?



Yes, this sounds fine. But, I think, out of context is a bit easier.

Here's a bit that I worked on for about an hour because I was just trying the lib. But I never got it to sound like I wanted it. The accent is supposed to be on the last note. But it is supposed to be legato. Point may only be that I need more control on the volume of the overlay attack.

My mockups are my finals.

I ended up using sustain legato for all of the notes (no short notes at all ) but all of the notes are attack overlay. Again, it may just be that I need (and have been hitting my head against a wall with Cinesamples over this issue for 2 years with Cinebrass) control over the volume of the overlays that is separate from the sustain volume.

Sort of a catch-22 when the sustain volume is controlled by the same cc1 that controls the volume of the attack overlay. (can I change that in the deep controls??)

http://digitmusic.net/shorts%20and%20legato.mp3

PS I write all of my music into Logic (99%) so I am quite used to spending a few seconds on cleaning up a line.

PPS With the poly legato problems I encountered after this, it all added up to putting me in a very very bad opinion of Cinesamples. I probably just need to turn off poly legato and chill a bit... try it again.


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