# Monitor upgrade time!



## Jkist (Feb 12, 2021)

Hello good people!

I am looking to upgrade monitors here soon. I am currently on Kali LP6s, here is what they look like in my current room:






I do a wide variety of music styles, including bass-heavier electronic stuff, so I am looking for monitors capable of sub-40hz.

Basically I've narrowed it down to two: The Hedd Type 07 mk2 and the APS Klasik 2020. The Hedds are considerably more expensive, $1900 vs $1100 for the Klasiks. The Hedds are capable of lower frequencies, and are front ported. You can also block the ports off completely, so it effectively becomes a sealed type speaker.

The Klasiks are pretty universally praised. I don't know if the sound difference between these monitors warrants the $800 difference. Does anybody own either of these yet? Or older models, how did they hold up for you? Any info I can get helps, thanks!


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## horuhoru (Feb 17, 2021)

Hi Jkist, 
I'm in the same boat as well. 

If anybody could share their infos, that'll b great !


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## fakemaxwell (Feb 17, 2021)

If you're spending that much $$$, you need to spend the time and demo. No amount of reading is going to let you know 1. What speaker you prefer and 2. What speaker sounds best in your room.

It's a bit annoying, especially nowadays, but knowing for sure that you prefer X over Y will save you headaches in the long run.


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## Jkist (Feb 17, 2021)

fakemaxwell said:


> If you're spending that much $$$, you need to spend the time and demo. No amount of reading is going to let you know 1. What speaker you prefer and 2. What speaker sounds best in your room.
> 
> It's a bit annoying, especially nowadays, but knowing for sure that you prefer X over Y will save you headaches in the long run.


I plan to order both and send back whichever one I prefer less. However, they are proving to be very hard to find. Thus me trying to find further info outside of my own pursuits. I don't disagree with you, but any info I can obtain right now is helpful.


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## Instrugramm (Feb 24, 2021)

Just my two cents, I'd actually recommend to get speakers that are fairly flat until 80 hz (+ go down to 50 hz max) and supplement them with two subwoofers that can be controlled separately. Bass is fairly hard to cope with in any room, no matter how good the treatment, so having exceptional monitors for treble and midrange with the option of adding the bass and substracting it with a few clicks is the best you can do for mixing and keeping track of true full range (flatter response + better extension than any full range speaker.


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## Gabriel S. (Feb 25, 2021)

As others said, at the end is a matter of taste, personal preferences and trial and error (and your room...). The last months I've tested Amphion One18, Two18, PMC IB1 and Tyler D1X...and I liked none of them . I prefered what I already have + subwoofers.

Anyways, I've heard good things about the Heeds. The APS no idea. I'd say that if you can buy both so you can decide by yourself. Then you can return the unused pair (some stores give you 2-4 weeks so you can try different speakers). Or, you can also search in the second hand market, it's a good way of trying different monitors and finding your taste and preferences.

Good luck!


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## kgdrum (Feb 25, 2021)

Blocking the ports of speakers will do two things,it will kill the bass and will not allow the speakers to perform as designed.
A good bass response is partially derived from the speakers but is also dependent on the room(size,treatment?) and proper placement.
Additionally using a subwoofer is tricky and is effected by a good crossover, crossover points ,the actual room and speaker placement.
The size of the space will also determine what kind of low frequencies can be utilized correctly.


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## Instrugramm (Feb 25, 2021)

Gabriel S. said:


> As others said, at the end is a matter of taste, personal preferences and trial and error (and your room...). The last months I've tested Amphion One18, Two18, PMC IB1 and Tyler D1X...and I liked none of them . I prefered what I already have + subwoofers.
> 
> Anyways, I've heard good things about the Heeds. The APS no idea. I'd say that if you can buy both so you can decide by yourself. Then you can return the unused pair (some stores give you 2-4 weeks so you can try different speakers). Or, you can also search in the second hand market, it's a good way of trying different monitors and finding your taste and preferences.
> 
> Good luck!


Maybe try the Amphion One 15s, the 18s didn't do it for me either tbh.


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## Instrugramm (Feb 25, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> Blocking the ports of speakers will do two things,it will kill the bass and will not allow the speakers to perform as designed.
> A good bass response is partially derived from the speakers but is also dependent on the room(size,treatment?) and proper placement.
> Additionally using a subwoofer is tricky and is effected by a good crossover, crossover points ,the actual room and speaker placement.
> The size of the space will also determine what kind of low frequencies can be utilized correctly.


Yes but adding two subwoofers will allow for better placement than an mtm setup, effectively counteracting standing waves especially when using DSP. I use an 80hz crossover on my Amphions + SVS subs when tracking, for mixing I only switch on the subs for occasional checks and at the end the subs will be used for a last "master" but without crossover (just limiting the subs via cutoff to output from 19 to 50 hz only while the Amphions play "full range").


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## Gabriel S. (Feb 25, 2021)

Instrugramm said:


> Maybe try the Amphion One 15s, the 18s didn't do it for me either tbh.


Yeah a friend told me that too but I just lost interest in amphion. Thanks anyways.


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## kgdrum (Feb 25, 2021)

@Jkist 
I haven’t seen you mention but is the room properly treated,what the size and shape of the room? These details in my opinion are as important as the monitors and or sub you’re considering and play a vital role in the equation & it’s critically important that these possible issues are not overlooked.


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## Jkist (Feb 25, 2021)

Room is not very well treated but I know it very well. I would rather treat the room a bit and use RoomEQ Wizard to correct the lows, rather than deal with a sub. I had a sub once and it was a pain to get it sounding right, and then you have to deal with the crossover and matching a good sub with your monitors, more expense, etc.

Thats why I am looking more at the Hedds, because they go lower, although really both will go low enough for my needs in my room. I did order both, I think they arrive tomorrow. I will post my impressions on each here, for any future interested parties.


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## kgdrum (Feb 25, 2021)

Is the room at least an adequate size for the monitors? From my experience matching the speakers with the room is as important as the choice of speakers.
I use the Focal Twin 6 which are pretty good & i used to have a great sub a JL Audio 15" behemoth it weighed about 150 pounds and sold for about $2000.
I could never get it sounding right with the Focals so i got rid of it and actually prefer the Twins without the sub.


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## Monkey Man (Feb 25, 2021)

If you can afford it and can find a pair I highly recommend Event Opal.

Mega headroom for superb transient reproduction, plenty of welly so no sub required, plenty of power, flat-but-warm response with plenty of mojo. Non-fatiguing so you can have mojo all day.

They make everything fun to listen to, a bonus for any studio monitor IMHO.

As far as room treatment is concerned, I'm a big believer in sitting in the equilateral sweet spot (IOW, not far away) and keeping levels commensurately-lower. This way you take the room's influence out of the signal, ameliorating its otherwise-negative effects.


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## Jkist (Feb 28, 2021)

Well the Hedds came, and they are very nice. Lots of options to tune them to whatever space, other cool built-in DSP effects, bass extension down to (supposedly) 30hz...

"phantom stereo center" doesnt seem as good as some other monitors I've tried, but they are very revealing. Lots of detail and clarity. I love my LP6s to death, they've always sounded amazing to me, and they still do, but I noticed that after listening to the Hedds, the LP6s sounded just a tad boxy to me.

Before I could REALLY dive into the Hedds, the right speaker crapped out on me. There was a little pop, followed by some static, and now it just emits pink noise. Real shame, not even 24 hours. I do understand its a brand new product line, but this does make me weary.

The APS Klasik 2020s come tomorrow, they are nearly half the price. We'll see how they stack up. I might just keep those and return the Hedds.


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## Instrugramm (Feb 28, 2021)

Just found this video, might be useful for someone who's in the same case as the OP.


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## Monkey Man (Mar 1, 2021)

I recommended the Opals or another flat, wide monitor with decent bass extension; you can go either way, obviously, but that's my preference.

The low end on these puppies is sublime. It's more-articulate than the marriage of a sub and less-extended monitor by a long shot.

I like to apply Occam's Razor / adhere to the KISS principle wherever possible. In this case you're looking at zero error vs huge potential for errors.


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## Instrugramm (Mar 1, 2021)

Monkey Man said:


> I recommended the Opals or another flat, wide monitor with decent bass extension; you can go either way, obviously, but that's my preference.
> 
> The low end on these puppies is sublime. It's more-articulate than the marriage of a sub and less-extended monitor by a long shot.
> 
> I like to apply Occam's Razor / adhere to the KISS principle wherever possible. In this case you're looking at zero error vs huge potential for errors.


I had the Opals in for testing a few months before settling for my current setup, I found them to need enough space to work well (or a very well treated room). Unfortunately my room was too small to handle the bass and the imaging was off as I was using them as near fields, great speakers though, no question about it (more neutral than the Amphions).


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## Monkey Man (Mar 1, 2021)

Interesting, and yeah, I've heard that said before.

I'm using them as near fields, but no problem with imaging 'cause I'm in the sweet spot of a 3'-sided equilateral triangle, so the monitors are only 900mm / 3' apart.

This means I'll probably never go beyond the bottom rung of the 5-step / notched level-setting knob, and haven't to this day moved it from its minimum setting. Monitoring, I'm guessing, never goes above 85dB / loud speech levels.

As a bonus, and as I mentioned earlier, squeezing that triangle size down and getting into the sweet spot minimises reflections and room-mode affectation. I haven't done squat to treat the room and it sounds _sweet_.


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## Instrugramm (Mar 1, 2021)

Monkey Man said:


> Interesting, and yeah, I've heard that said before.
> 
> I'm using them as near fields, but no problem with imaging 'cause I'm in the sweet spot of a 3'-sided equilateral triangle, so the monitors are only 900mm / 3' apart.
> 
> ...


Freaky, my triangle is exactly 100 cm equilateral, maybe try (just as an experiment) to set them further apart, I found the imaging to increase drastically in doing so. 

I admit that back when I was testing them my room wasn't as well treated as it is now, so maybe your room is just better suited for bass in general. I had a very annoying room mode at 60 khz that I couldn't get rid of then, it only went away when I got my second sub and used DSP correction on both (solo sub was a mess).


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## Monkey Man (Mar 1, 2021)

Ahh... I hear you.

My room is "L-shaped", so I haven't sensed any anomalies in the bass area. I've never used test instrumentation 'cause I hear nothing too-far out-of-the-ordinary. Of course it's ameliorated by the close-monitoring position as well.

Yeah, I have 6" maximum that I can shift each monitor out sideways, making for a 4" triangle like yours. I'll try it for beer and skittles one day. Definitely will take what you said onboard. It makes logical sense anyway; I just wanted to maximise isolation from the room's influence by shrinking that triangular sucker down as much as I could.

Thanks man.


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## Instrugramm (Mar 1, 2021)

Monkey Man said:


> Ahh... I hear you.
> 
> My room is "L-shaped", so I haven't sensed any anomalies in the bass area. I've never used test instrumentation 'cause I hear nothing too-far out-of-the-ordinary. Of course it's ameliorated by the close-monitoring position as well.
> 
> ...


Happy to help.


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## Jkist (Mar 1, 2021)

I have heard recommendations for the Opals several times in several places. However, they seem nearly impossible to find, and I am weary of buying second-hand. Can someone point me to a site where I can order them in the United States? Thanks


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## Monkey Man (Mar 1, 2021)

Honestly man, I reckon your best bet is to call Rode head office in Sydney and ask when and to where the next shipment will be.

They've been terribly-hard to buy new for some years now 'cause batches are shipped only occasionally and with no obvious pattern.

They're tough mofos 'though so I wouldn't be concerned about buying 2nd-hand. They told me personally about 5 years ago that they're designed to last a lifetime after I pressed them, telling them that I wanted these things forever. Given the over-engineered construction, I'd believe it too.

I've often joked that if one were to drop a pair on concrete you'd smash the concrete, not the monitors. 23kg, High Pressure Injection-Moulded Aluminium chassis, 40-95ºF operating range (5-35ºC). Woofer 720w peak, tweeter 100w peak. Built like a son of a bitch. 

The only thing I can suggest looking out for is a "woofing" sound coming from one or both of the front ports. Those who've experienced it have found it "simple" to fix, and it appears to have only occurred in a few of the early-model units and only during exposed LF passages. It was just something loose that needed to be glued IIRC. Still, for full transparency I mention this 'cause you don't want to have to fix anything when picking up a 2nd-hand pair.

This GS thread's been going for 13 years now:

New Event Opal Monitors - not your regular speakers


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## Jkist (Mar 5, 2021)

Update: Here are my thoughts on both monitors. I posted this in another forum, so I will just copy my post from there:



> So I've been in the market for some new monitors, and I have been doing crazy amounts of research. After many a late night reading forum posts, reviews, etc. I finally decided to order a set of the new Hedd monitors, as well as the new(ish) APS Klasiks. What follows are my thoughts on each:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


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## Fever Phoenix (Nov 27, 2021)

Jkist said:


> Update: Here are my thoughts on both monitors. I posted this in another forum, so I will just copy my post from there:


Hey there,

just stumbled upon your detailed feedback regarding the Hedd Audio Type 07 Mk2 which I strongly consider getting. How is it going now for you? How do you like them after this time?

The only factors that make me hesitant ist the auto sleep function and I've read in some reviews that they have an audible audio noise..?

Would be marvelous to hear from you.

Best,

Raoul


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## Jkist (Nov 29, 2021)

Fever Phoenix said:


> Hey there,
> 
> just stumbled upon your detailed feedback regarding the Hedd Audio Type 07 Mk2 which I strongly consider getting. How is it going now for you? How do you like them after this time?
> 
> ...


I still love them, I still think they are immensely capable, and they sound fantastic. There is a bit of self noise, but its not noticeable unless your ear is within 1 foot of them. I had an issue where the knobs were loose on the back of one of mine, and they would vibrate at certain frequencies. I reached out to Hedd and they said this has since been updated and fixed, and they sent me some new knobs to remedy the issue.

I actually like the sleep function, its nice to just walk away and come back whenever you are ready, and not worry about wasting power. You just feed them a bit of signal and they spring to life, no need to reach behind awkwardly to hit the power switches. The wake time is a little slow, each one takes about 10 seconds or so to wake.

I do like also that if you want to upgrade and add a sub later, Hedd makes one that will integrate perfectly with these. So all in all, I am still very happy with them.


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## Fever Phoenix (Nov 29, 2021)

Jkist said:


> I still love them, I still think they are immensely capable, and they sound fantastic. There is a bit of self noise, but its not noticeable unless your ear is within 1 foot of them. I had an issue where the knobs were loose on the back of one of mine, and they would vibrate at certain frequencies. I reached out to Hedd and they said this has since been updated and fixed, and they sent me some new knobs to remedy the issue.
> 
> I actually like the sleep function, its nice to just walk away and come back whenever you are ready, and not worry about wasting power. You just feed them a bit of signal and they spring to life, no need to reach behind awkwardly to hit the power switches. The wake time is a little slow, each one takes about 10 seconds or so to wake.
> 
> I do like also that if you want to upgrade and add a sub later, Hedd makes one that will integrate perfectly with these. So all in all, I am still very happy with them.


Thank you for taking the time to answer. I pulled the trigger already and they are scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I am very excited to check them out.


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## Jkist (Nov 30, 2021)

Fever Phoenix said:


> Thank you for taking the time to answer. I pulled the trigger already and they are scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I am very excited to check them out.


Awesome, be sure to post your impressions!


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## Fever Phoenix (Dec 3, 2021)

Jkist said:


> Awesome, be sure to post your impressions!


So I have the Type 07s Mk2 for three days now. I love the stereo image, the clarity of the sound and I am impressed by it's low end capabilities. On the negative side I must say the self noise is rather loud for my ear. I sit about 80cm to 100cm (about 3ft) away from them when I mix. And for a nearfield monitor I consider the noise to loud. So this dampens my excitement a bit. I wrote to Customer Service of Hedd Audio and they wrote that they are aware of the noise of the tweeter and will improve it for the models that will ship out within the next moths. I did ask them if am to be expected to live with noise and look forard to their response.. I mean, I guess I can learn to live with the noise, but really turns me off a bit. The price of the speaker is great, but still to high to live with that chchchch in my ears.
If you listen at high volume no problem. But on low volume I struggle with the fact that this was making it throug quality control. Maybe I am overreacting, maybe speakers of a certain size will always have self noise? My old monitors, the M-Audio Bx5a are much smaller and the self noise is only to be hear if you go as close as two inches.

These are my first impressions after three days  

+ fantastic sound quality through the whole range of frequencies
+ stereo image
+ high quality feel of the build
+ tweakabilty (open + closed / filters / linearizer / low end enhancer)
+ can get very loud 

- audible self noise
- latency when using linearizer


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## Fever Phoenix (Dec 4, 2021)

answer from HEDD Audio.. now I have to either try to get a refund or live with the hiss.. hrmpf..


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## Inceptic (Dec 4, 2021)

The best, hands-down: PSI Audio

These make you think you are hallucinating the sound because they are so transparent, you can't pinpoint the source.


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## Jkist (Dec 4, 2021)

Fever Phoenix said:


> answer from HEDD Audio.. now I have to either try to get a refund or live with the hiss.. hrmpf..


In that case I would go for the refund and purchase again in early 2022. You might take a hit on shipping but hopefully it isnt too bad. Maybe you could work it out for them to cover shipping.


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## Fever Phoenix (Dec 6, 2021)

Jkist said:


> In that case I would go for the refund and purchase again in early 2022. You might take a hit on shipping but hopefully it isnt too bad. Maybe you could work it out for them to cover shipping.


it wasn't easy, but I've decided to return the type 07s in favor of a pair of Neumann 310 A, as they are supposed to be mega quiet and are notoriously flat. It was a pain in the a** to ship bring the HEDDs to the post office, lol and not cheap either.. also in Switzerland there is no return policy as in Europe, so I won't get full price back.. but since I am upgrading to a speakers that costs double the price the shop will be nice to me I hope.. shipping wasn't cheap either.. well, we will see..

pitty, I did really like the capabilities of the HEDDs, but I could not work with the hiss when playing quiet parts or scoring to soft dialogue and such..

I have found this interesting thread with a list of hiss measurements among many monitors on the audiosciencereview forum.


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## Jkist (Dec 6, 2021)

Yeah makes sense if you do a lot of soft volume stuff, and you sit super close to the monitors. I found the self noise tolerable sitting further away and with the speakers playing at around 87db, but I do mostly electronic and rock. 

But the Neumann stuff is absolutely top tier. I had the smaller ones for awhile and I really liked them, they just didn't have the bass response I desired (due to their size).


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