# Recommendations for library to replace Session Horns Pro.



## Headlands (Jan 2, 2019)

I used to rarely need band-style horns and am finding myself needing them more recently. NI Session Horns Pro 2 has significant issues for me and some others (i.e. it drops samples), and has some limitations. Plus the legato transitions are not so great. 

I've been looking at Mojo 2 and Swing More, both of which have interesting features (Mojo 2 looks especially intuitive to use, which is highly appealing for the fast turnarounds I often need to deal with). Does anyone have experience with these, or others you would recommend?


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## Henu (Jan 3, 2019)

Sample/Audiomodeling without a doubt. Swing More is fun, but lacks the aggressiveness IMO.


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## Batrawi (Jan 3, 2019)

Henu said:


> Sample/Audiomodeling without a doubt. Swing More is fun, but lacks the aggressiveness IMO.


this and look no further


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## DSmolken (Jan 3, 2019)

There's also OT's new Glory Days, and Impact's Straight Ahead Jazz Horns, if you want the typical gestures like falls and doits prepackaged as articulations. A lot less flexible than Sample/AudioModeling but might be easier.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 3, 2019)

SM Brass has keyswitched falls and doits .


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## Vardaro (Jan 3, 2019)

Anyone tried Chris Hein's Horns (Compact or Pro)?


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## BezO (Jan 3, 2019)

Vardaro said:


> Anyone tried Chris Hein's Horns (Compact or Pro)?


Probably what I'll end up with. They're implementing NKS compatibility which is what I'm waiting on.


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## TeamLeader (Jan 3, 2019)

Love CHein Horns Pro, and also love Straight Ahead Jazz Horns, when in a time crunch.


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## Headlands (Jan 3, 2019)

Henu said:


> Sample/Audiomodeling without a doubt. Swing More is fun, but lacks the aggressiveness IMO.



Which company/library, specifically? Not SWAM I assume, since they only do sax at this point.


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## Headlands (Jan 3, 2019)

Thanks for the opinions, all. Anyone have experience with Mojo 2 yet? I know it's very new.


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## Henu (Jan 3, 2019)

Headlands said:


> Which company/library, specifically? Not SWAM I assume, since they only do sax at this point.



Actually, yes: SWAM for saxes, and then SM for trumpets and trombones.


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## Headlands (Jan 3, 2019)

Just to make sure for my saturated brain, this is what you're talking about, yes?

https://www.samplemodeling.com/en/products.php


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## banes (Jan 3, 2019)

Audio modeling should show their new SWAM brass prototype during NAMM show
https://community.audiomodeling.com/index.php?u=/topic/24/a-rough-roadmap


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## Polkasound (Jan 3, 2019)

Headlands said:


> I used to rarely need band-style horns and am finding myself needing them more recently. NI Session Horns Pro 2 has significant issues for me and some others (i.e. it drops samples), and has some limitations. Plus the legato transitions are not so great.



I've always been a fan of Session Horns Pro, but let me guess.... after using it for a bit, the samples start muting and fading out? It happens to me, and I've heard other people complain about it, so there's obviously something wrong with the library. When the samples start dropping out, I reload the patch, and that temporarily restores the audio for me. Just make sure that if you tweak any settings in a patch, you save it as a new .nki file and keep resaving it after every tweak.

Session Horns Pro offers features for quickly building tracks, such as pre-built horn sections by style/era, smart voicing, and MIDI loops, so if you rely on these features, you may want to see if other libraries have them.

I almost bought MOJO 2, but passed on it because the intro sale ended before I could thoroughly scrutinize the library for any weaknesses. Then OT's Glory Days came out. I passed on that one because it was recorded on a reverberant scoring stage. In retrospect, I think I would have been happy buying MOJO 2. I will probably still buy it someday.

But you've also seen references to Sample Modeling and Audio Modeling. Because the instruments are modeled, you'll get some very realistic results not limited by a fixed number of dynamic layers, however, these are not horn section libraries like Session Horns Pro. They're solo instruments from which you'll need to manually build your sections, and if desired, artificially situate them in the appropriate acoustic space. If you have the time, patience, and knowledge to do all that, you'll be rewarded with the results.


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## Headlands (Jan 3, 2019)

Polkasound said:


> I've always been a fan of Session Horns Pro, but let me guess.... after using it for a bit, the samples start muting and fading out? It happens to me, and I've heard other people complain about it, so there's obviously something wrong with the library. When the samples start dropping out, I reload the patch, and that temporarily restores the audio for me. Just make sure that if you tweak any settings in a patch, you save it as a new .nki file and keep resaving it after every tweak.
> 
> Session Horns Pro offers features for quickly building tracks, such as pre-built horn sections by style/era, smart voicing, and MIDI loops, so if you rely on these features, you may want to see if other libraries have them.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed response.

Yes, that's exactly what happens in SH Pro. It's an old instrument so I guess NI just doesn't care for whatever reasons -- it's a shame, but NI is notorious for issues that last years in some cases (like Steinberg, unfortunately).

But yeah, Mojo 2 looks really interesting and your advice re: modeling is on point. I already use SWAM for string quartets and solo strings sometimes, and yes it takes a lot more work, but does sounds great. I don't use it when I have a super tight deadline and need a quick quartet or something.

Might spring for Mojo 2 since I have the upgrade price (still $$, but it looks like it's worth it), then get SWAM stuff later on.


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## Amiga500JLK (Jan 3, 2019)

Long time lurker and finally joined the forum, I have both Mojo 2 and Orchestral Tools Big Band Horns. I am using them currently from the angle of their fake nature of being sample based horn instruments. Making believable tracks with them, but which on closer inspection are clearly a little wrong, often programmed that way on purpose.

Library wise you can get a very dry tone using the Orchestral Tools BBH when using the spot mics only. This more or less completely removes the hall. Overall I'd say the tone from the OT Library is one of a more 1970's light entertainment big band vibe when it's layered into larger sections. Mojo 2 I'm still getting to grips with, but It probably closer meets your needs as there are more instruments and certainly more of those to replace the ones in SH Pro, all of the solo instruments are very playable.

The drawback on each library is the fact there are no section multi's. Work has to be done to place all the instruments in their own virtual space and then mix them together in believable or in my case non believable sections. OT to my ears when building large more powerful sections is better as Mojo 2 relies on Ensemble settings which can sound a little fake when ensembles are stacked up.

There are some really great solotone and plunger articulations on the OT BBH which Mojo 2 doesn't have as well as more variations of actual trumpets and trombones. Mojo2 though has flugelhorn, clarinet, french horn and piccolo trumpets as well.

I also got Realitone 'Screaming Trumpet' as well for some top lines. On intro price I picked up New Orleans Brass from Insanity Samples last year. Again though realism is not my full intention so the New Orleans library is fun when messed around with but probably wouldn't meet your current needs.

Both OT and Mojo 2 have great but different tones.


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## ReelToLogic (Jan 3, 2019)

Vardaro said:


> Anyone tried Chris Hein's Horns (Compact or Pro)?


I have CH Horns Compact and love it. Great sound and control.


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## Polkasound (Jan 3, 2019)

Vardaro said:


> Anyone tried Chris Hein's Horns (Compact or Pro)?



I have both. I originally bought CH horns for solo work, but I'm not exactly blown away by the sound compared to other libraries. It's very good though, and the libraries offer a lot of control (arguably as close as you can get to modeling) but for exposed solo work, I'm quite set on using modeled instruments only. The CH horn libraries, in my opinion, shine best on ensemble parts.


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## lychee (Jan 15, 2019)

@Headlands

Hello.

Session Horns Pro 2 is a really good library and I will not understand whether you change it, or only if it is by Samplemodeling horns, because it is the best horns Library in my opinion.
But I repeat, session horns Pro is a very good library if you control it well, as in this video:



Swing seems well-sounded and is not limited only to the brass, it should be seen with those who possess it if it is a good deal to make.

But for Mojo2, I admit I was disappointed after seeing this video (vs Session horn pro):


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## Ryan Fultz (Jan 15, 2019)

Mojo2 is great as far as playability and articulations, everything you would want is there and I can tell I'm currently failing to truly realize the power of the library. Which for me is great because I prefer products that have a long learning curve as it means years later I'm getting my best work out of them instead of looking for something new.

Currently the biggest hurdle is the mixing in regards to solo and ensemble patches as well as blending with other companies. Definitely would say don't expect to just pop it open, it will take a good amount of trial and error.


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## brynolf (Jan 15, 2019)

Vardaro said:


> Anyone tried Chris Hein's Horns (Compact or Pro)?


Yes, they're great. Lots of articulations and nice sound. The brass is better than the saxes though.


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## Polkasound (Jan 15, 2019)

lychee said:


> Session Horns Pro 2 is a really good library and I will not understand whether you change it, or only if it is by Samplemodeling horns, because it is the best horns Library in my opinion.
> But I repeat, session horns Pro is a very good library if you control it well, as in this video:



There is no "2" version of SHP as far as I know. Was that a typo?

Anyway, I agree that it's a fantastic library in so many ways, but it has its limitations, and they're always there no matter how well you control the library. The mute trumpet in the video, for example, exemplifies the excellent sampling and scripting of SHP, but trumpet players may hear a certain "flatness" to the sound because the dynamics are being artificially created with filters.

With SHP, you have a choice: utilize several dynamic layers and create exression with velocity + volume, or utilize CC-11 control for smooth expression over one dynamic layer. Both methods work, but neither is ideal for exposed solo parts.

--

EDIT - JANUARY 9, 2022: I need to correct some misinformation. Using CC11 for dynamics crossfades between the highest dynamic layer and the lowest.


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## Danos (Nov 17, 2020)

I read through the entire thread (everyone's comments) and considered everything all of you have said (regarding the original question) and have listened to many (likely All) of the demo tracks listed with each of their products (SH Pro, SH (regular), Chris H., Mojo 2, Vintage Horns, AM Trumpets, AM Trombone, SWAM Sax..

I'm VERY much hoping you Can Please help! What I'm specifically looking for is 2 things (*Mainly the 1st*):

*1st = A Completely Believable Horn Section for Pop or R&B Music (that Can be mixed, mastered and RADIO READY Quality)!* Now I'm aware that Very likely the BEST option is to of course.. Record Live Horn Players in a Sweet Studio and viola, you're set.

And if that is not as easy (especially _this _year, with all that's been going on in the world and health, let alone money), I'd LOVE to know what the BEST option is for me to track it (via MIDI) manually playing it (the brief Horn lines) on a Pro Keyboard/Electric Piano, with the main parameter being - the ABSOLUTE BEST SOUNDING, MOST REALISTIC HORNS (IN A SECTION, NOT SOLO) sounding like Earth, Wind & Fire (let's say), or the Phenix Horns on "The Emotions" track, or on Phil Collins music in the 80's, Huey Lewis & The News..

Those are the sounds I'm looking for (and also the shorter, tighter phrases complimenting the Songs so Greatly).

(I'm listing links to the main sound I'm Going for, tight and clear)!
I Hope you may listen as this is as clear as I Can Be regarding what I'm looking for.

Earth, Wind & Fire =  (the 1st :20 seconds)

Earth, Wind & Fire = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LBQ1yFSMl8 (the first Horn hit only at :05 seconds, at the beginning, in the Song)

Phil Collins =  (specifically like at :05-:06 and :20-:21)

The Emotions =  (like at :58-:59)

Huey Lewis & The News =  (like at 6:33)


Again, just to be clear, the software I want to buy Is for the HORN SECTION (not using it for a solo instrument performance, unless it's a quick maybe Baritone Sax sweep note underneath to compliment or something). This is mainly just for the SECTION, together. (Similar to what you hear in the tracks listed above).

My Horn lines are Very much in this vein and simple and straight-forward.

The sounds of so many of the virtual instruments (especially the ones listed above sounded thin or unusable to me, at times, though to be fair, I own none of these software products and that's why I'm posting as I'd like to purchase the Right one for me, a week from now on Thanksgiving week or Cyber Monday this year).

(And not that it likely matters, but it's for use on a MacBook Pro, 8-Core I9, 32G RAM).


and the 2nd thing I'm looking for is (possibly) the right program to use only for playing a Solo Sax part in a couple of Songs. For this, it seems clear that SWAM Sax is the way to go.

As I said, I'm MAINLY focused on the 1st part (HORN SECTION, like the Songs in the links sound, or obviously as close as that as I Can Get)!

Thank you All for your input. I VERY much Appreciate your help!


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## BezO (Jan 6, 2021)

Ryan Fultz said:


> Mojo2 is great as far as playability and articulations, everything you would want is there and I can tell I'm currently failing to truly realize the power of the library. Which for me is great because I prefer products that have a long learning curve as it means years later I'm getting my best work out of them instead of looking for something new.
> 
> Currently the biggest hurdle is the mixing in regards to solo and ensemble patches as well as blending with other companies. Definitely would say don't expect to just pop it open, it will take a good amount of trial and error.


I just picked these up. Aside from the tenor sax real vibrato, I like the sound, though "lighter" than Session Horns Pro. Great set of articulations. Velocity switching. But yeah, they take some work. I know some of it is my playing/programming and arrangement, but I'm not quite getting the sounds I've heard in their demos.

And yeah, I'm still figuring out how to combine solo and ensemble patches. And, understandably, we can't do non-unison ensemble legato. At least I don't think so.

I generally like the sound of SHP better, despite it being limited to mellower tones. And SHP ensembles are cool. But I like everything else more from M2.

Orchestral Tools BBH sounds great. But no ensembles of any kind, and that price. I couldn't justify the purchase.


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## vinylizor (Jan 8, 2021)

WarpIV.
The tone, range and articulations are way better for pop work that the libraries that have been mentioned - but they're in the old 'separate instrument for each articulation' Kontakt format which makes using them pretty tedious.
Realitone have reworked the trumpet (not that I've tried it) and put it into a modern multi artic GUI, but that still leaves you needing all the other horns....


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## takaliuang (Jun 10, 2021)

I am so impressed with Hollywood Pop Brass 👍 Great Horn Section, big and wide sound, and has many articulations


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## cmillar (Jun 10, 2021)

Check out the Chris Hein Horns (even the Compact version is fantastic for what you need)

You get a choice of Trumpets, choice of Trombones, and choice of saxes....mix and match.

If you know what real horns sound like, you can pull off what you're looking for.

A great thing about the library is it's 'playability'. You barely need to mess around any keyswitching or articulation switching. Doesn't really need it if you play the line in properly.

And, you can finetune EQ, tuning, balances, etc. etc.


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