# Remember when Cinesamples ruled?



## robgb (Jul 9, 2018)

I remember a time, not so long ago, when Cinesamples was considered THE developer of choice. Today I hardly hear mention of them at all.

Could just be me. But for those interested, their stuff is on sale:

https://www.timespace.com/collectio...203151893&mc_cid=117f8876df&mc_eid=c13598bf8c


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## SchnookyPants (Jul 9, 2018)

Wow. Per that link:

Hollywood Winds:

Normal 323.33

Now for 341.44.

Quite a deal.


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## pfmusic (Jul 9, 2018)

robgb said:


> I remember a time, not so long ago, when Cinesamples was considered THE developer of choice. Today I hardly hear mention of them at all.
> 
> Could just be me. But for those interested, their stuff is on sale:
> 
> https://www.timespace.com/collections/cinesamples?utm_source=Time+Space+Music+Production+Newsletter&utm_campaign=117f8876df-Mon+9th+July+-+Cinesamples+Summer+Sale&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ae6d543ae3-117f8876df-203151893&mc_cid=117f8876df&mc_eid=c13598bf8c



Haha - have you seen some of the prices. Got to be the worse sale of 2018 - you'll be lucky to get up to £20 off


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## Quasar (Jul 9, 2018)

robgb said:


> I remember a time, not so long ago, when Cinesamples was considered THE developer of choice. Today I hardly hear mention of them at all.
> 
> Could just be me. But for those interested, their stuff is on sale:
> 
> https://www.timespace.com/collections/cinesamples?utm_source=Time+Space+Music+Production+Newsletter&utm_campaign=117f8876df-Mon+9th+July+-+Cinesamples+Summer+Sale&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ae6d543ae3-117f8876df-203151893&mc_cid=117f8876df&mc_eid=c13598bf8c



I got Tina Guo Legato and Hollywoodwinds a while back when they were 40% off their usual stated price. A few months ago they had a 30% sale and this one is "up to 25% off". From my humble and admittedly self-serving end-user perspective, this is trending in the wrong direction LOL...

I am very happy with the two libraries I have though. Tina Guo is beautiful, pretty much perfect out of the box for the limited case uses it's tailored to, and Hollywoodwinds has both great sounds and a lot of depth despite the dated UI that doesn't organize things very conveniently for immediate access, especially in the scales/rips and FX categories. It could perhaps benefit from an overhaul...


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## robgb (Jul 9, 2018)

Quasar said:


> Tina Guo is beautiful,


Well, yes.
Oh, you mean the library.


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## Quasar (Jul 9, 2018)

robgb said:


> Well, yes.
> Oh, you mean the library.


Yes and yes.


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## sostenuto (Jul 9, 2018)

Well .. timely Thread, as CineBrass CORE & PRO are now very high on current needs list. 
I can handle lesser discounts, so content and newer competitor libraries are of prime importance. 
Have these two CineBrass offerings declined in competitiveness ?


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## muziksculp (Jul 9, 2018)

Still waiting for *CineStrings Pro* to be released.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 9, 2018)

SchnookyPants said:


> Wow. Per that link:
> 
> Hollywood Winds:
> 
> ...



Not exactly, it is a bundle containing Hollywood Winds, Cinestring runs, and Cineharps. Probably it is less then the discount on cinesamples product page.


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## rottoy (Jul 9, 2018)

It's a pity, I'll always have a fondness for their libraries and the Sony Scoring Stage sound.


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## VgsA (Jul 9, 2018)

I own all 4 Core libraries (strings, brass, woodwinds, percussion) and their newest harp and I personally love all of them. Some issues in the past with earlier versions of their patches (hanging notes and so when CineStrings Core first released), but now I find them very flexible, easy to use and convincing.


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## fretti (Jul 9, 2018)

I still see them mentioned regularly. And I love everything I have from them.
Though when I remember back to when Cinesamples was (one of) the most sought after company everywhere, I also remember looking often at Spitfires site and most often stumbling a few steps back when seeing their prices (£ + taxes, was a series increase to € back then). While now I have lots (too much?) SF libraries as they got less expensive with bundling their BMLs to their SSs...


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## jmauz (Jul 9, 2018)

I use CineStrings almost every day. That, CineBrass and CinePerc are at the core of my orchestral template.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 9, 2018)

Don't have a lot of Cinesamples products, but judging from demos etc., their stuff generally still sounds good. I think they're probably mentioned somewhat less lately because they weren't quite keeping up with the rat race of constant new releases, but trusted in their existing catalogue - while being relatively pricey compared to many things that came afterwards. 

VSL also trusted in their comphrehensive lineup, but - without knowing any numbers, obviously - I assume they were probably more successful in the long run because their line is a whole ecosystem where everything interlocks consitently and perfectly with innovative software. It's also modular, so you can pick and choose without having to necessarily commit to the big, pricey packages only.

Spitfire did it completely differently - very pricey, but going for a lifestyle type branding along with constant new "reinventions of the wheel".


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## Brian Nowak (Jul 9, 2018)

I hear people talking about Cinebrass constantly, especially in trailer land. Cineperc is highly lauded everywhere it's mentioned. Cinewinds often gets poo pooed for BS and SFWW. But all in all I wouldn't say the company isn't relevant.


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## robgb (Jul 9, 2018)

Brian Nowak said:


> But all in all I wouldn't say the company isn't relevant.


Not saying that. Just that everything seems to be Spitfire and Berlin around here and elsewhere and I hardly ever hear mention of Cinesamples. Doesn't mean their product isn't good.


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## Daniel (Jul 9, 2018)

Hollywoodwinds IMHO is still the best Woodwinds Ensemble with FX, Runnings, textures, Tutti, in the market today.


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## Brian Nowak (Jul 9, 2018)

robgb said:


> Not saying that. Just that everything seems to be Spitfire and Berlin around here and elsewhere and I hardly ever hear mention of Cinesamples. Doesn't mean their product isn't good.



By relevant, I mean I still regularly hear people talking about the company though.

Just like anything there are trends and yes - marketing plays a heavy role in what people talk about on forums and the internet in general. 

The greater question is: how many people talking about Berlin and Spitfire products being so great... don't even have any of them...?


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## shawnsingh (Jul 9, 2018)

Also don't forget Voxos. Actually that's the only cinesamples library I have. I use it occasionally, and especially the solo soprano. I have to admit I've used Ark 1 choirs more often than Voxos since I got Ark 1.

Are the usability and sample quality similar for the brass/woodwind/strings compared to Voxos?


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## gsilbers (Jul 9, 2018)

same as east west and a lesser known audio impressions DVZ. Sample libraries seems to be a side gig (from music) for many companies. The owners are good composers and get focus on other things.


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## NoamL (Jul 9, 2018)

Brian Nowak said:


> I hear people talking about Cinebrass constantly, especially in trailer land. Cineperc is highly lauded everywhere it's mentioned. Cinewinds often gets poo pooed for BS and SFWW. But all in all I wouldn't say the company isn't relevant.



Exactly. Their libraries have aged MUCH less poorly than contemporaries. Cinebrass, Hollywoodwinds, Tina Guo Cello, Drums of War and more still get used by composers I know. Now everyone think about how many PLAY libraries you have that never get used anymore....


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## muziksculp (Jul 9, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Now everyone think about how many PLAY libraries you have that never get used anymore....



I never use any PLAY libraries these days. I'm even considering deleting all PLAY libraries to make room on my SSDs for other libraries.


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## NoamL (Jul 9, 2018)

I still use Hollywood Brass pretty constantly, and Hollywood Strings is kind of a fallback library for me if I can't get something exactly right with my own strings setup. There are still useful sounds in the various Stormdrums and in Hollywood Percussion, and I guess RA is still the best one-stop-shop option for a lot of world instruments although each individual instrument is pretty limited. Beyond that, I don't use any PLAY sounds anymore. It's getting to the point where if I open a template or project and see PLAY loading, 90%+ chance it's Hollywood Brass.


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## muziksculp (Jul 9, 2018)

Yes, I think Hollywood Brass is their best library, possibly the only one I will keep.


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## fish_hoof (Jul 9, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, I think Hollywood Brass is their best library, possibly the only one I will keep.



Recently found a big liking to storm drum 3. Some nice clean stuff in it. Sounds really really good. Agree, Hollywood Brass is pretty awesome and probably their best.


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## Brian Nowak (Jul 9, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Exactly. Their libraries have aged MUCH less poorly than contemporaries. Cinebrass, Hollywoodwinds, Tina Guo Cello, Drums of War and more still get used by composers I know. Now everyone think about how many PLAY libraries you have that never get used anymore....



Hehehe I only recently got into sample libraries so I avoided that whole scene.


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## wst3 (Jul 10, 2018)

what the heck, I'll pile on...

CineWinds Core and CineBrass Core make up the core (sorry) of my orchestral template. I thought about adding the Pro libraries, but decided a different approach would give me more flexibility, so I went with Chris Hein Orchestral winds and brass. I may yet add CineWinds Pro and CineBrass pro, but I'm in no hurry. I did add the Descant Horn because, well, because I am a recovering horn player, and always wanted a descant horn!

I also love their percussion. I started with Drums of War an dlater added the legacy percussion (before it was legacy<G>), CineBells, Handbells, and Kalimba. They are all extremely useful.

Piano in Blue is awesome, but it is somewhat limited to "that sound". Now "that sound" can fit into lots of genres, but I find I use it mostly for softer piano parts.

Tina Guo Acoustic Cello is wonderful, so wonderful that I expect I will add the full Tina Guo librariy one day soon.

And then there is CineOrch. Before I broke down and tried Albion and OE there was CineOrch. I'd find ways to work that into every project because it just added a certain glue that held the tracks together. I still use it.

All this to suggest that it might be early to call it for Cinesamples!


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## gjelul (Jul 11, 2018)

I have pretty much everything from all the usual suspects. As much as I want to use certain ones, or as much as the hype is about certain ones, on a daily basis I end up using more and more Cinesamples libraries. I wish they can update their GUI (fonts are not easy to read, a bit of an outdated look , etc., etc.). Having said that, it is a solid collection that can easily serve the everyday needs of a film / tv / media composer.


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## Simon Ravn (Jul 11, 2018)

I still use Cineperc as my standard orchestral percussion. Their solo strings are also very good. And CineBrass also... still heavily represented in my template.

CineStrings, not quite so much, but I have used it in quite a few projects because it was considered the one to use for those by the audio director. Still using it in a current one btw.


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## boxheadboy50 (Jul 11, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Still waiting for *CineStrings Pro* to be released.


This is actually an interesting point. Cinesamples have gone for what seems like forever without even teasing at a major new library. Sure, they've released CinePiano and CineHarpsichord recently, and those shouldn't be downplayed, but Cinesamples used to always have new updates or videos posted on YouTube to drool over.

Now, they seemed to have slowed down considerably. I think Mike Patti mentioned a CineStrings "Pro" on Twitter (or maybe his since-removed VI Control response vid?) saying they'd love to do it but they can't yet. I think Cinesamples' stuff is amazing and I would love to see them release more exciting, major libraries.

With regard to their current libraries and longevity: Jason Graves still uses CinePerc as his go-to orchestral percussion library, and CineStrings also has a place in his template (at least the short articulations, waiting for him to release his video about his legatos/longs). Daniel James released a violin shorts shootout video a few months ago and CineStrings stood out as one of my favorite sounding libraries there. While competitors have certainly been much more aggressive with releases and marketing, I don't think Cinsamples libraries are losing relevance at all.

Also - their https://cinesamples.com/product/cinesamples-academic-discount (academic discount) is, from what I've seen, second to none!

-Mitch

PS: Unrelated - is Jason Graves on this forum? I feel like he would be an amazing source of knowledge and friendliness here.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 11, 2018)

Not sure that they ever "ruled", that is hyperbole, but they did become a major player in the field. Mike Patti has young children (don't know about the other Mike) so maybe that is a factor.


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## paoling (Jul 12, 2018)

Cinesamples is still a major player. They have just not embraced the “one product every two weeks” rule that some other developers did. If you think about Project SAM or Cinematic Studio Series, there are some successful developers that simply enjoy a slower production line (maybe for a limited number of employees or maybe to try to focus on quality).
I quite enjoy to work on medium-big things than dozens of mini-instruments.


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## rocking.xmas.man (Jul 12, 2018)

the biggest point to the perception that they ruled dont do so anymore is not that they have been important parts of the sample library world and arent anymore. They still are, but they have done their orchestra quite some time before others. And still their orchestra is good useful and actually quite frequently considered to be among the most usable. The most important part of what they are not is being really active on this forum. That takes them a bit outside the focus of the discussions here. They kind of left the forum after the release of cinewinds which came out roughly at the same time as berlin woodwinds. Back then there have been quite rude arguments about their products, pricing and so on. Everyone should keep their story in mind when developers are writing posts about how hard it is to read comments on an announcement after putting hours and hours into your new project...


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## jcrosby (Jul 12, 2018)

paoling said:


> Cinesamples is still a major player. They have just not embraced the “one product every two weeks” rule that some other developers did. If you think about Project SAM or Cinematic Studio Series, there are some successful developers that simply enjoy a slower production line (maybe for a limited number of employees or maybe to try to focus on quality).
> I quite enjoy to work on medium-big things than dozens of mini-instruments.



Amen to this... Marketing has gotten out of control. I'm thankful for libraries that focus on the long game.


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## ThomasNL (Jul 12, 2018)

Their Cinebrass and CinePerc libraries are among my most used sample libaries. Easy to use straight out of the box. Blend well with almost everything. And yes, 50% educational discount is just amazing for a poor student like me


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 12, 2018)

I remember when they said you cant sample solo string fingered legato.


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## Blakus (Jul 12, 2018)

Not sure I've ever been more excited about the release of a sample library than I was during the build up to the CineBrass release. The hype around that library was so much fun, and it really delivered! I must have watched Patti's walkthrough video about 50 times  The thought of having samples using world class players, in a world class room, with a world class engineer... spine tingling! I still use a bit of CineBrass and Hollywoodwinds (yes, the super old one) regularly. 

Personally, I'd love to see them release more orchestral libraries again. They're the ones that get us excited, and I'm sure they've learned a lot in the years since the release of CineBrass.


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## N.Caffrey (Jul 12, 2018)

Yeah CineBrass is my go-to brass library. It still sounds very good indeed! Let's see if cinematic studio brass will make me switch..


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## leon chevalier (Jul 12, 2018)

N.Caffrey said:


> cinematic studio brass


Please don't use that name !  Every time someone use it the release is delayed of two more mouths


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## N.Caffrey (Jul 12, 2018)

leon chevalier said:


> Please don't use that name !  Every time someone use it the release is delayed of two more mouths


yeah, it's almost an ear late


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## reddognoyz (Jul 12, 2018)

They are still relevant and I still use some of the libraries daily. No big news releases for a while so I guess the buzz has been low


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## Rob Elliott (Jul 12, 2018)

Simon Ravn said:


> I still use Cineperc as my standard orchestral percussion. Their solo strings are also very good. And CineBrass also... still heavily represented in my template.
> 
> CineStrings, not quite so much, but I have used it in quite a few projects because it was considered the one to use for those by the audio director. Still using it in a current one btw.


For sure Cinebrass is still used. Their new piano is now my 'go to' (I have been using Ravenscroft for the last 4 years or so and NEVER thought I'd move on from it.) Cinesamples' new piano has pushed that aside on most things now - lovely piano. Never been a fan of their strings and woods BUT the Perc library is STILL relevant and used daily.


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## jcrosby (Nov 1, 2020)

Speaking of marketing on the previous page... They've stepped up the marketing a lot this past month. With one of the founders gone now, (and no background on why), I'd be lying if I wondered if this isn't related, and if more aggressive sales will or won't translate into a downgrade in quality... Time will tell! Curious if anyone knows the story behind MP assuming full ownership...


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## Ashermusic (Nov 1, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> Speaking of marketing on the previous page... They've stepped up the marketing a lot this past month. With one of the founders gone now, (and no background on why), I'd be lying if I wondered if this isn't related, and if more aggressive sales will or won't translate into a downgrade in quality... Time will tell! Curious if anyone knows the story behind MP assuming full ownership...




I don't , but Mike Patti is a good guy and I will feel more kindly towards the company now.


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## jcrosby (Nov 1, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I don't , but Mike Patti is a good guy and I will feel more kindly towards the company now.


Good to know, Thanks Jay. So far CS have been consistent so not worried... If anything it's just me wondering out loud about how marketing's changed one of the other major players around here...


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## rottoy (Nov 1, 2020)

I would love to see them record more woodwinds on the MGM Scoring Stage.


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## lettucehat (Nov 1, 2020)

Not a big fan of the premise of this thread. CineWinds is one of the most unfairly forgotten major wind releases, and the whole MGM 'platform' they've put together is fantastic, particularly for the prices you effectively pay with their sales. Only major release that missed the mark is apparently CineStrings, but I can't even say for sure as I don't own it. Very few developers have really *hit* the mark at that price point though.


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## JonS (Nov 1, 2020)

Cinesamples, EW HOD, Spitfire, OT, VSL...they can all get the job done, no one really needs all of them as each one is certainly capable. Cinematic Studio is good too but they don't have percussion and woodwinds yet.


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## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2020)

What do you think is the problem, or weakness of CineStrings Core ? 

Why aren't they very popular on this forum ? and if they are popular, why don't they get more positive publicity here ? 

By the way, the Audio Demos of CineStrings Core on the Product Page sound wonderful. Very natural sounding, nothing jumps at me as odd, sounding or midi produced.


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## rottoy (Nov 1, 2020)

Personally I love CineStrings Core. The Cinesamples workflow really floats my boat.

It features a great set of deeply sampled bread-and-butter articulations, with a wonderful selection of mic positions that don't overstay their welcome by being too numerous to count. From a nice gritty first chair bite of the Spot mics, to a fantastic scoring stage stereo image in the Room and Surround mics. 

You can pull off a lot of things with that library.


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## lettucehat (Nov 1, 2020)

rottoy said:


> Personally I love CineStrings Core. The Cinesamples workflow really floats my boat.
> 
> It features a great set of deeply sampled bread-and-butter articulations, with a wonderful selection of mic positions that don't overstay their welcome by being too numerous to count. From a nice gritty first chair bite of the Spot mics, to a fantastic scoring stage stereo image in the Room and Surround mics.
> 
> You can pull off a lot of things with that library.



Stop you're making me want to buy them!

Back in the day I decided I wasn't interested because it seemed like divisi was going to be standard for most libraries and CineStrings was placing itself as a sort of amateurish toy, behind the times, as a result. That didn't even turn out to be the case - Berlin, Spitfire, CSS don't do it and no one seems to mind. So maybe I would do things differently knowing divisi wouldn't catch on with most of the best developers.

After that point I just got various libraries that now comprise my template, and it doesn't seem wise to get CS Core (I love the Runs though). But one thing they always do is nail the sound, and perhaps one day I'll get them on deep sale for the workflow and sound.

I think both CineWinds' and Strings' issue is just timing and coming out of the gate less than perfect. I was turned off from CW initially until I tried it years later. Noise issues and sluggish playing all gone. I've never even gotten to play around with CS, but the demos always did sound great. And honestly, given Cinesamples' track record, I would even buy a flawed release knowing that they keep working on them.


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## rottoy (Nov 1, 2020)

If I could level one criticism against CineStrings Core, it would be the assembly required out of the box to truly make some mic positions shine.

Clearly, most care has been given to the Dennis Sands "Full Mix".
You could use that for everything without ever thinking about the other mic positions.
The issues with the other mic positions are mostly a few minor balancing issues within the dynamic layers, easily resolved through trial and error if you know your way around the Kontakt wrench.

It isn't really a problem for me, since I love to tinker under the hood.

Bottom line; the CineStrings Core recordings are STELLAR,
with some programming hiccups hampering it's glory ever so slightly.

I have encountered far more glaring issues in other libraries of that magnitude from other sample developers.


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## RSK (Nov 1, 2020)

I think Cinebrass (Core, Pro, and Sonore) are well respected here, for good reason.


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## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2020)

RSK said:


> I think Cinebrass (Core, Pro, and Sonore) are well respected here, for good reason.



But not much ❤ for CineStrings Core.

Any specific reason/s ?


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## CT (Nov 1, 2020)

My only reservation about Cinebrass has been feeling like I need to buy two or three different things to get a "complete" package. If not for that, I'd probably have it by now.


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## lettucehat (Nov 1, 2020)

Mike T said:


> My only reservation about Cinebrass has been feeling like I need to buy two or three different things to get a "complete" package. If not for that, I'd probably have it by now.



I think they did a better job of separating instruments in CineWinds, Core/Pro, but personally I like the CB approach. Core really covers almost everything you could want and it allowed me to dip my toes in without breaking the bank during a difficult time. I would have bought the Core/Pro bundle if I'd had the cash at the time. I wouldn't hold the development of Sonore and Descant Horn against CB though - it was a very comprehensive library before these niche libraries existed.

CW has a more clear cut between orchestral essentials and more esoteric selections. Bass Clarinet is the only one I wish they'd put in Core.


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## CT (Nov 1, 2020)

ALTM said:


> Sonore and Descant Horn



It's not those, so much, which I can understand as additions. It's just the need for both Core and Pro to have a fully usable brass section. Not a big deal though really, just something that's held me back in the past from them.


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## lettucehat (Nov 1, 2020)

Mike T said:


> It's not those, so much, which I can understand as additions. It's just the need for both Core and Pro to have a fully usable brass section. Not a big deal though really, just something that's held me back in the past from them.



Yeah I think people are pretty split, as it were, on that approach.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 1, 2020)

Absolutely love CineBrass (have Core, Pro, and Sonore). Just an unmatched tone IMO.


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## GNP (Nov 1, 2020)

Still using CineHarp.


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## philtsai (Nov 2, 2020)

I bought "the composer tools" in last NI sale, and THEY ARE ALL WONDERFUL IMO.


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## GtrString (Nov 2, 2020)

Cinewinds and Cinebrass has been on my shortlist for ages, but for some odd reason, I have never taken the plunge.

I really like the sound of the MGM stage, but guess Im a little uneasy with them. How's the playability, will they blend ect. I hear something in their transition notes (legatos), that is a little "blurred" (maybe). Their pricing is sometimes also a little confusing, like it seems there is more content in their Pro extensions, but they cost the same. Still it's hard to avoid the Core versions ect. Im just not sure where they're at.

I guess I should just decide on something and fly with it.. the open, natural sound of the instruments sounds awesome in the demos.


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## ricoderks (Nov 2, 2020)

GtrString said:


> Cinewinds and Cinebrass has been on my shortlist for ages, but for some odd reason, I have never taken the plunge.
> 
> I really like the sound of the MGM stage, but guess Im a little uneasy with them. How's the playability, will they blend ect. I hear something in their transition notes (legatos), that is a little "blurred" (maybe). Their pricing is sometimes also a little confusing, like it seems there is more content in their Pro extensions, but they cost the same. Still it's hard to avoid the Core versions ect. Im just not sure where they're at.
> 
> I guess I should just decide on something and fly with it.. the open, natural sound of the instruments sounds awesome in the demos.


I bought CineBrass core/pro also only a month or two ago. Sound is stellar, playability is... ok. With some tweaking in the interface (i don't like the velocity mapping at all) you can make it more fluid and organic sounding. The solo horn and trumpet legato sound fantastic! But cant say the same for the rest of the legato patches. BUT.... That's not the most important thing. It blends fantastic with csb with the right settings and eq-ing. So it makes a stellar addition to many brass libraries. So using csb in combination with some other liubraries is really all you'll ever need.


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## purple (Nov 2, 2020)

I think it's because they are more expensive than most newer libraries but aren't really considered worth that price with how many libs these days are competitively priced.


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## Go To 11 (Nov 2, 2020)

MGM is one of the best sounding rooms in my opinion, but the Cinewinds legatos are - in most of the instruments - nowhere near good enough for my purposes. For smooth, soloist-ready woodwinds the Berlin dry expansion and Fluffy Audio have been great. It's a shame because the room is so iconic, but the way the instruments were recorded is out of date now. Cinebrass legatos are nothing compared to CSB for example, though again the tone of Cinesamples, and that room, can't be beaten.


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## rottoy (Nov 2, 2020)

There's nothing out of date about the way these instruments were recorded.
Here's a musical phrase played on the flute and oboe from CineWinds Core, without reaching for a keyswitch once.


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## MartinH. (Nov 2, 2020)

rottoy said:


> There's nothing out of date about the way these instruments were recorded.
> Here's a musical phrase played on the flute and oboe from CineWinds Core, without reaching for a keyswitch once.



The musicality of that example is impressive to me, but I find the sound to be uncomfortably shrill. Is that just how these instruments sound in general, or is this part of the unique tone of the library.


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## rottoy (Nov 2, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> The musicality of that example is impressive to me, but I find the sound to be uncomfortably shrill. Is that just how these instruments sound in general, or is this part of the unique tone of the library.


I have EQ:ed them to remove some of that brightness, these are the softest dynamic layers on display. Close mic only, with an early reflections IR and algorithmic reverb on top. They are still quite bright, I agree.


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## Go To 11 (Nov 2, 2020)

rottoy said:


> There's nothing out of date about the way these instruments were recorded.
> Here's a musical phrase played on the flute and oboe from CineWinds Core, without reaching for a keyswitch once.


Sounds great. Those are two of the most usable patches. Some of the other woodwinds have incredibly sucky sounding legato transitions, no matter how the speed dial is set. This is all in my opinion of course.


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## rottoy (Nov 2, 2020)

Go To 11 said:


> Sounds great. Those are two of the most usable patches. Some of the other woodwinds have incredibly sucky sounding legato transitions, no matter how the speed dial is set. This is all in my opinion of course.


The instruments in CineWinds Core are clearly superior to those in Pro. 
More deeply sampled and with more pleasant legato transitions. 
I still like CineWinds Pro, though.


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## lettucehat (Nov 2, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> The musicality of that example is impressive to me, but I find the sound to be uncomfortably shrill. Is that just how these instruments sound in general, or is this part of the unique tone of the library.



If you genuinely asking, yeah, piccolo and oboe are two of the most annoying sounding instruments in the orchestra. Wait until he posts a demo of the E-flat clarinet!


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## muziksculp (Nov 2, 2020)

ALTM said:


> If you genuinely asking, yeah, piccolo and oboe are two of the most annoying sounding instruments in the orchestra. Wait until he posts a demo of the E-flat clarinet!



Oboe ? most annoying instrument in the orchestra ? Are you kidding ?

Haha, the Clarinet is my least liked woodwind instrument in the orchestra.


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## lettucehat (Nov 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Oboe ? most annoying instrument in the orchestra ? Are you kidding ?
> 
> Haha, the Clarinet is my least liked woodwind instrument in the orchestra.



All tongue in cheek of course, but I'd bet a lot of money your average listener would find an oboe more unpleasant than a clarinet across their respective ranges. I personally love both.


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## muziksculp (Nov 2, 2020)

By the way the Baroque Oboe has a very soothing, and beautiful timbre. (Listen to some Bach Period Instrument Recordings of his Oboe Concertos). 

The modern Oboe depending on the range of the melody or line it plays, has differing timbre characteristics, so the range of the music it has to play makes a big difference, the Baroque Oboe has a narrower musical range than the modern version, but sounds very expressive, and beautiful through out all of it's range.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 2, 2020)

Funny thread. Cinesamples still does "rule" in a lot of ways.

Cineperc is easily one of the best, if not the best perc library ever recorded.

Cinebrass crushes just about everything i have tonewise. Playability is just fine too. 

Tina Guo cello, anyone? It's simply stunning.

Cinepiano, Cineharp, and Cineharpsichord are also excellent. 

As other have said, the tone of that stage is unmatched, and it really has an impact on the tone of the instruments.

There's a lot of competition these days, and i think Cinesamples is still amongst the best.


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## muziksculp (Nov 2, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Funny thread. Cinesamples still does "rule" in a lot of ways.
> 
> Cineperc is easily one of the best, if not the best perc library ever recorded.
> 
> ...



How come you didn't mention CineStrings Core ? They don't qualify ?


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## Mike Fox (Nov 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> How come you didn't mention CineStrings Core ? They don't qualify ?


I don't have Cinestrings, so i'm not really at liberty to fairly critique it.

I will say that i plan on picking it up over BF though.


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## muziksculp (Nov 2, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> I don't have Cinestrings, so i'm not really at liberty to fairly critique it.
> 
> I will say that i plan on picking it up over BF though.



OK.

Thanks for clarifying. I was beginning to think there was a reason for excluding CineStrings Core from your mentions.

Also curious if they will ever be releasing a CineStrings Pro one of these days.


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## MauroPantin (Nov 2, 2020)

I don't know about playability but I have the entire collection in Staffpad and it sounds absolutely amazing.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 2, 2020)

BTW, Cinesamples never "ruled"., it was one of several good and competitive packages. Pretty sure the EW HO had more total sales, but it had a head start.


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## José Herring (Nov 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Oboe ? most annoying instrument in the orchestra ? Are you kidding ?
> 
> Haha, the Clarinet is my least liked woodwind instrument in the orchestra.


I've just reported you.


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## SimonViklund (Nov 3, 2020)

Like others have said; I don't remember Cinesamples ever "ruling" - no single library manufacturer ever rules the market, and Cinesamples was and is still good. I got plenty of their libraries and use them often.


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## Crowe (Nov 3, 2020)

I'm pretty sure the 'Rule' we're talking about isn't so much the scepter-swinging kind, but more the 90's cool-kids-exclamation kind.

Speaking as a 90's kid.


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## lettucehat (Nov 3, 2020)

Yeah there was a period where Spitfire was still bespoke/barely releasing commercial libs, VSL and EWQLSO were the main complete packages, with plenty of accompanying issues, and Cinebrass was the best thing ever to happen. Hollywoodwinds too i think. Still love both and use all the time.


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## muziksculp (Nov 3, 2020)

Anyone here use *CineStrings Core* as their go to Strings Library, or use it frequently these days ?


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## Bollen (Nov 3, 2020)

Well... 50% begins now... https://cinesamples.com/products?ut...mpaign=Nov2020-11.3.20-CyberMonthSale-Product


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## Trash Panda (Nov 3, 2020)

Bollen said:


> Well... 50% begins now... https://cinesamples.com/products?ut...mpaign=Nov2020-11.3.20-CyberMonthSale-Product


This is most inconvenient news for my bank account.


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## RSK (Nov 3, 2020)

The Serinator said:


> This is most inconvenient news for my bank account.


You and me both. Hollywoodwinds and Cinebrass Pro it is, then!


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## Nicholas (Nov 24, 2020)

I bought the Composer whatever bundle thing in the NI sale earlier this year, and I have to say.. apart from a few instruments from CinePerc, I don't get along with these libraries at all. First of all, the GUI is just unbelievably bad. Who thought making a mixer look like a "real" analog mixer with notes lying around is a good idea at Kontakt's 50x50 Pixel resolution? Plus, you neither have auto purging nor can you map sample purging (mic positions) to MIDI automation, which, given the fact that esp CineStrings is already a massive hog, is really bad.
And the sound.. I think *some* of the instruments sound pretty decent. Yes, the noise is horrible. Especially if you're not a big hollywood composer yet, so you aren't asked to do big action scenes on a regular basis... If you're writing more on a mellow side of things, forget it. The noise drenches everything, and as soon as you go a bit louder, their libraries start sounding incredibly shrill and harsh. You can try EQing against it, but that won't change the instruments initial timbre.
Legato patches are often unplayable to me, shorts are okay. CineStrings still suffers from a problem where voices don't get "released" after their release sample has played, causing an increase in CPU load over time. CS confirmed the problem to me months ago (when NIs sale was on), but never fixed it.

I wish I could sell these libraries, tbh. I was in need of Brass and Percussion at the time, but I wish I had resisted and invested the money elsewhere now (Cinematic Studio Brass, Berlin Brass, ...).. well. My 2 cents.


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## rudi (Nov 24, 2020)

Nicholas said:


> Plus, you neither have auto purging nor can you map sample purging (mic positions) to MIDI automation, which, given the fact that esp CineStrings is already a massive hog, is really bad.


You can automate the On/Off buttons on the Mixer to MIDI controls, so you can toggle them on and off as required. I have tried it on CineStrings Core v1.3.


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## Nicholas (Nov 24, 2020)

rudi said:


> You can automate the On/Off buttons on the Mixer to MIDI controls, so you can toggle them on and off as required. I have tried it on CineStrings Core v1.3.





rudi said:


> You can automate the On/Off buttons on the Mixer to MIDI controls, so you can toggle them on and off as required. I have tried it on CineStrings Core v1.3.



You‘re right! I mixed it up with CinePerc, doesn’t work there.


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## AndyP (Dec 30, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Anyone here use *CineStrings Core* as their go to Strings Library, or use it frequently these days ?


Not as a go to library, but I am just discovering my late love for this library.
With the short articulations you can create very lively ostinatos, and for faster passages or runs I like to layer with CH Solo strings. Especially the CH Short legatos give the whole thing a good touch. 
Through the different short layers that are addressed via velocity (if you do not use keywitches), you can vary nicely. But it is a bit of work in the editor because it is difficult to play in so accurately. Velocity and CC1 are my friend.

Cinestrings are increasingly appealing to me. A little EQ to reduce the noise, 7th Heaven, then they sound very nice. The jw, close and warm micmixes are currently my favorites. 
They are "almost" perfect for the track I am working on.


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## muziksculp (Dec 30, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Not as a go to library, but I am just discovering my late love for this library.
> With the short articulations you can create very lively ostinatos, and for faster passages or runs I like to layer with CH Solo strings. Especially the CH Short legatos give the whole thing a good touch.
> Through the different short layers that are addressed via velocity (if you do not use keywitches), you can vary nicely. But it is a bit of work in the editor because it is difficult to play in so accurately. Velocity and CC1 are my friend.
> 
> ...



Hi @AndyP ,

Thanks for your interesting feedback.

I tend to revisit CineStrings once in a while, and see how I can use this library creatively. The shorts are very nice, I agree. I didn't try layering them with other strings though.

It's nice to go back, and re-discover what some of the older String libraries can do, or be used for. Sometimes they can surprise me as to how good they are.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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