# New Mac advice please



## jtnyc (Aug 3, 2020)

Hi,

I need to retire my old 2008 8 core Mac Pro. For the most part it still holds it's own for the work I do, although more power will be welcome when it comes to VI use. I use Logic BTW. I am considering the top specked Mac Mini (3.2 GHz 6 core i7) or the top specked iMac (3.7 GHz 8 core i9). While I often use quite a few VI's, I'm not running large Orchestral templetes. Typically I will have an instance of Superior Drummer, 3 or 4 instances of Kontakt (piano, strings etc), a few Omnispheres, a couple of Play, and other NI synths etc. I also mix large projects (80 tracks sometimes), but this I can do no problem on my current machine, so my concern is with VI's.

I also need to buy ram and a Thunderbay dock for drives, so the iMac option is getting a bit expensive. I'm leaning iMac, but I'm not sure I really need it. I created and sent a couple of Logic projects that cripple my current machine to a friend with the Mini and it handled them no problem.

The iMac is more appealing all around. More power, more cores, latest i9, and a sweet 27 inch new screen....

Any user experience, advise, recommendations are appreciated.

Thanks


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## gsilbers (Aug 3, 2020)

I’m on the same boat. I’ll be getting a mini this week and let u know. 

I bought a MacBook Pro but i9 just get too hot.

The iMac issue for me is the screen. I want other dimensions.

The mini benchmarks seem impressive. 
I bought 64 gb ram in owc.
And will be getting external ssd.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 3, 2020)

I have a loaded mini and it will easily handle the kind of projects you describe. Aftermarket RAM plus an inexpensive 4k monitor and you're golden.


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## Pier (Aug 3, 2020)

I own an iMac 5K that I only use for work (dev, design, etc) and also seriously considered buying a Mini last year to use exclusively for music. I ended up building a Ryzen PC. I know this is not really an option for you but here are my thoughts.

As far as CPU goes, both the i9 iMac and i7 Mini will be plenty for your use case. Of course get as much RAM as you can afford in any option.

The major problem is that both machines have terrible cooling so if you're sensitive to fan noise you will start hearing it as soon as you push the machine a little. If you have a closet or machine room where you can put the Mini this won't be an issue, but with the iMac this is not possible as it will sit right in front of you.

Also it should be noted that anytime you plug something in the TB3 controller, this will increase the CPU temps on the Mac by aprox 10ºC. I've seen this behavior in all the TB Macs I've owned since it was first released on the MBP 2011, up to the iMac 5K with TB3.

The Mini has an integrated GPU which cannot really run anything higher than 1080p without affecting audio latency. There are many people complaining about this. See this video for example. If you intend on running 2K or 4K monitor(s) with it you should also consider getting an eGPU solution via TB3 but that adds more cost and more fans.

Another issue with the Mini is that it comes with the T2 chip which has had issues in the past with USB2 devices. There were also issues with the Bluetooth and Wifi. AFAIK Apple released fixes for these but you should look it up anyway.

The iMac is a fantastic machine and does not have any of those issues, but it has other inherent problems with the AIO design. I mentioned cooling, but also dust build up. After a couple of years it will be filled with dust and opening it up is a royal PITA. Also when one of the components fails you will have a gorgeous monitor you can't use.

If you go with the iMac *do not buy it without SSD*. It's more expensive but it makes all the difference. You could in principle open the iMac and install one yourself but, again, this is a painful procedure.

So this is why I ended going the Windows route. For the same price as the Mini I got a PC which is more powerful than the base Mac Pro. I can control cooling, components, use 4K monitors, etc.

If I was forced to choose between the iMac and Mini I think I'd go with the Mini since the fan noise from the iMac would be unbearable for me. I could tuck the Mini way somewhere under the desk or in a closet, and maybe get an eGPU solution down the road.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 3, 2020)

Counterpoint: I only ever hear the fan on my i7 Mini during an offline bounce; my last project played back 70 tracks of VIs and softsynths without ever ramping up the fan, and I am really sensitive to fan noise. I also run a monitor at 4k native from the integrated graphics with no problems — I haven't tested any latency difference but then I don't care much about latency anyway (the low latency button in Logic is your friend for tracking).


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## Pier (Aug 3, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I also run a monitor at 4k native from the integrated graphics with no problems



I haven't tested it myself, since I don't own the Mini, but I've seen multiple reports of this with the 2018 model.

Maybe you have the newer 2020 model? Are you using scaling or running pixels 1:1?

This is the video I posted earlier of a guy with Logic:



Also see this thread of multiple Ableton users:





__





New Apple machine with 8th Gen i7 (Mac mini) running badly (UPDATE: Possible Fix) - Ableton Forum






forum.ableton.com





Also this thread on Apple's forums:





__





New Mac mini 2018 Woes!! Logic Pro X issu… - Apple Community







discussions.apple.com


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## SupremeFist (Aug 3, 2020)

Pier said:


> I haven't tested it myself, since I don't own the Mini, but I've seen multiple reports of this with the 2018 model.
> 
> Maybe you have the newer 2020 model? Are you using scaling or running pixels 1:1?
> 
> ...



I have the 2020 model but AFAIK it's identical. I haven't watched that video but I suspect people having problems might just not have enough RAM, since the integrated graphics share system RAM. Maybe the connection also makes a difference: I run USB-C to DisplayPort, not HDMI. In any case I have no discernible performance hit running either 4k native or scaled.


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## Symfoniq (Aug 3, 2020)

Considering you got _twelve years_ of useful life out of that machine, is the price of a new Mac Pro unwarranted in your situation, especially if it's a business expense?


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## jtnyc (Aug 3, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> Considering you got _twelve years_ of useful life out of that machine, is the price of a new Mac Pro unwarranted in your situation, especially if it's a business expense?


Haha, well they are quite expensive ($6k for base model) and seem geared towards way higher demands than I would ever need.


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## gsilbers (Aug 3, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I have the 2020 model but AFAIK it's identical. I haven't watched that video but I suspect people having problems might just not have enough RAM, since the integrated graphics share system RAM. Maybe the connection also makes a difference: I run USB-C to DisplayPort, not HDMI. In any case I have no discernible performance hit running either 4k native or scaled.




Apple is sneaky in this stuff. they added a new amd card spec for their macbook mainly because everyone complained about the fan and heat issues due to external monitor. 
and they are going ARM due to intel being slow... when its obvious these past few years macs have been a huge issue with fan noise and heat. 
so the 2020 refresh for the mini might have been to fix a few minor things... or not.


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## Symfoniq (Aug 3, 2020)

jtnyc said:


> Haha, well they are quite expensive ($6k for base model) and seem geared towards way higher demands than I would ever need.



I like to look at the cost over time and compare that with the income it will generate. A $6K Mac Pro over twelve years is $500/year. How much income do you expect it to generate over those twelve years?

You said in your OP that you sometimes mix 80+ tracks. I don't think an 8- or 12-core Mac Pro would be overkill for that kind of work, particularly if you are earning money doing it.


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## jtnyc (Aug 3, 2020)

Thanks gsilbers, Pier and Supreme

I will think on it all and continue to research...

Pier - I've seen a few video reviews where they stress tested the i9 iMac to see about heating etc, and there were no heating or throttling issues to speak of. The testers themselves were surprised as it's been an issue in past iMacs....


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## rnb_2 (Aug 3, 2020)

If you're leaning iMac, try to wait a couple weeks or so - rumors are that new iMacs are coming this month. You could also keep an eye on the Apple refurb store for iMac Pros - they don't have any right now, but the base iMac Pro (1TB SSD/32GB RAM/8Core processor) might be a good fit for you, and is usually 15% off as a refurb (so $4250US). The cooling system is also vastly better than the regular iMac.


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## tav.one (Aug 3, 2020)

I suggest strongly against Mac Mini 2018. It's still my bread and butter but it is nothing but pain.
I don't exaggerate when I say that my standard of living has gone down just because I own this. Everyday is full of frustrations.

If you end up buying it then don't buy a 27 inch 4K monitor, buy 2K monitor instead or even 5K (don't run it scaled). Any plugin that has even a mere spectrogram makes the CPU spike like crazy. Some have said that it might be because the RAM is less, but I had way less RAM in my 10 year old iMac and it wasn't such a pain.

I have wifi router 10 inches away and my Mac Mini doesn't connect to wifi, ever. I can use Ethernet only, which means I can't use features like Airdrop.

Because of the intermittent bluetooth disconnection issues my Trackpad 2, Apple Magic mouse and Apple Keyboard had to be abandoned and I had to buy Logitech gear to use its own dedicated wireless system. Apple connectivity gear are collecting dust.

I have tons of software issues like daily finder crashes, which I've been having since Mojave. I've done everything, including clean installs and what not, it never goes away permanently. And I'm not alone, I know at least 4 dozen other people on the internet having same problems (not all are having them but a significant amount of people have)

It may work and it may not, but if you're pro and/or your time is valuable, give it a hard pass.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 3, 2020)

tav.one said:


> If you end up buying it then don't buy a 27 inch 4K monitor, buy 2K monitor instead or even 5K (don't run it scaled). Any plugin that has even a mere spectrogram makes the CPU spike like crazy. Some have said that it might be because the RAM is less, but I had way less RAM in my 10 year old iMac and it wasn't such a pain.


I had 2Gb RAM in my 2004 G5 but times change.  How much have you got in your mini?

I'm sorry you're having such problems, though. Have you tried running it on its side so that the wifi/Bluetooth antenna (which is on the base) gets better reception? I also read that some people solved their Bluetooth issues by not plugging anything into the USB-a ports, because they might interfere.(For me, my Bluetooth issues disappeared when I switched to Ethernet for the router, because Bluetooth and 2.4Ghz WiFi are just not friends.)


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## tav.one (Aug 3, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I had 2Gb RAM in my 2004 G5 but times change.  How much have you got in your mini?
> 
> I'm sorry you're having such problems, though. Have you tried running it on its side so that the wifi/Bluetooth antenna (which is on the base) gets better reception? I also read that some people solved their Bluetooth issues by not plugging anything into the USB-a ports, because they might interfere.


I have 16GB

There are 2 USB ports and I use only one of them, if I use other then it acts as a Bluetooth/wifi off switch and new strange issues On switch. If i use one then it stays the same so I use that (not any one, its a specific one, haha)

I have few things to try, buying a 55 inch TV so I run 4K natively without scaling. Adding more RAM, I just don't want to be in a situation where I spend more money for this system and the problem still exists. Getting 32 GB sticks of that RAM in India is also not easy or affordable.


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## ridgero (Aug 3, 2020)




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## SupremeFist (Aug 3, 2020)

tav.one said:


> I have 16GB
> 
> There are 2 USB ports and I use only one of them, if I use other then it acts as a Bluetooth/wifi off switch and new strange issues On switch. If i use one then it stays the same so I use that (not any one, its a specific one, haha)
> 
> I have few things to try, buying a 55 inch TV so I run 4K natively without scaling. Adding more RAM, I just don't want to be in a situation where I spend more money for this system and the problem still exists. Getting 32 GB sticks of that RAM in India is also not easy or affordable.


Yes, unfortunately 16Gb is just not enough on a system with integrated graphics to run a RAM-hungry application like a DAW and also drive a hi-res monitor flexibly — and this is not a Mini-specific problem: I have a 2017 Macbook Pro with integrated graphics and 16Gb and it chokes on scaled resolutions with the 4k monitor too.

I do hope you get yours running nicely, it can be a great machine!


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## Pier (Aug 3, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I have the 2020 model but AFAIK it's identical. I haven't watched that video but I suspect people having problems might just not have enough RAM, since the integrated graphics share system RAM. Maybe the connection also makes a difference: I run USB-C to DisplayPort, not HDMI. In any case I have no discernible performance hit running either 4k native or scaled.



I don't think it's the RAM. This guy is running the Mini with 32GB and ended up buying an eGPU solution. He doesn't mention if he is using TB or HDMI though.

You're running 4K at 60 Hz, right?


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## SupremeFist (Aug 3, 2020)

Pier said:


> I don't think it's the RAM. This guy is running the Mini with 32GB and ended up buying an eGPU solution. He doesn't mention if he is using TB or HDMI though.
> 
> You're running 4K at 60 Hz, right?


I am running 4k 60hz with no problems but that guy is stressing his system on a 64 buffer which is asking for trouble in general. (I don't know if Ableton is also less efficient than Logic, which is what I use.)


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## Pier (Aug 3, 2020)

jtnyc said:


> Pier - I've seen a few video reviews where they stress tested the i9 iMac to see about heating etc, and there were no heating or throttling issues to speak of. The testers themselves were surprised as it's been an issue in past iMacs....



Yes, although my concern is not so much about throttling but fan noise. For your needs I don't think you would even need to buy the i9.

I'm writing this on the 2017 5K iMac with a 7600K (the high end i5). It should be super easy to cool, right? But when making music even only using constant CPU at 25% the temps go to +70ºC and the fan noise starts. Granted, I live in Mexico, so ambient temps are probably higher than other parts of the world.

I don't know if the newer iMacs will behave similarly, I only report what I've personally experienced.


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## CT (Aug 3, 2020)

I don't care at all about graphics. If I get a Mini I will use the most basic setting to run a basic flat screen TV, probably via Thunderbolt. Would this decrease my likelihood of running into these headaches?


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## Pier (Aug 3, 2020)

Mike T said:


> I don't care at all about graphics. If I get a Mini I will use the most basic setting to run a basic flat screen TV, probably via Thunderbolt. Would this decrease my likelihood of running into these headaches?



In theory if you run the TV at 1080p it should work fine. That's the solution many people ended up adopting.


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## tav.one (Aug 3, 2020)

OK I'll spend $800 to upgrade to 64GB RAM and see if that makes this usable. I shouldn't have to though


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## jtnyc (Aug 3, 2020)

----


tav.one said:


> OK I'll spend $800 to upgrade to 64GB RAM and see if that makes this usable. I shouldn't have to though











Memory Upgrade for Apple Mac mini 2018-2020


Upgrade the memory of the 2018-2020 Mac mini up to 64GB through OWC, and save up to $800 vs upgrading through Apple. Includes step-by-step install videos.




eshop.macsales.com





$309 here


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## tav.one (Aug 3, 2020)

jtnyc said:


> ----
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know man, but I'm in India.
Friends are not coming from US to India either because of the pandemic. So either I'll have to pay the double price or wait till someone visits.


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## Kent (Aug 3, 2020)

I am currently solving this problem here!


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## jtnyc (Aug 3, 2020)

tav.one said:


> I know man, but I'm in India.
> Friends are not coming from US to India either because of the pandemic. So either I'll have to pay the double price or wait till someone visits.


ahh, I see. OWC won't ship it to you? They are very nice and have great customer support. You could email them and see if it's possible


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## rnb_2 (Aug 3, 2020)

I have a 2018 mini and have only encountered the occasional Bluetooth disconnect/reconnect (happens maybe once a day, lasts about 30 seconds), but since I bought mine for photo/video work, I've had an eGPU from the beginning and haven't encountered any problems with running a 4k display (as you would hope). Unfortunately, I got it with 16GB of RAM because my photo/video work has never needed more, but it's not limiting me thus far because I'm such a newbie.

This is one area where I'm looking forward to seeing what Apple does with their own silicon, as their integrated GPU should be vastly better than anything Intel has provided. I'd love not to need the eGPU any more - my mini is basically sitting on top of a small form factor PC! If nothing else, I would be able to move my photo/video work to an Apple Silicon mini sometime next year (once Adobe gets everything converted over) and dedicate my Intel mini to music (replacing a 2012 i5 iMac).


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## MikeK (Aug 3, 2020)

I’m a generally happy Mac Mini 2018 user. I use two, in fact. 

The most recent is maxed out... 3.2 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i7, 64 GB Ram, 2TB SSD.

I’m running three monitors off it, although usually only two are on at the same time. One monitor is an LG HDR 4K.

I’ve got three SanDisk 2TB drives connected... one for a full back-up, one for Time Machine, and a third that have, among other things, music libraries. 

I do feel the machine can run a little hotter than an iMac. I have an app called Turbo Boost that shows the CPU temp and also allows me to turn off the fan and Turbo Boost functionality. It’s a controversial thing and I rarely disable Turbo Boost, but when I have the computer doesn’t run anywhere near as hot which keeps the fan from turning on. 

And I do have a 30-second disconnect between the Apple Mouse and the computer maybe once every day or two for reasons I don’t understand. It annoys me to the point where I have a USB mouse off to the side so I can keep working for those 30 seconds and not be tempted to slam my Apple Mouse on the desk in frustration. (My keyboard is USB.)

I have the Mini sitting on a laptop cooling unit... three fans that keep the Mini a little cooler and the external SSDs.

The reason I switched from iMacs to Minis is because I like to choose my own monitors. My last iMac was having video issues and I started dreaming of my PC days when a computer was more modular. We barely have that with Apple unless you want to go Pro, so the Mini was closest to that for me. 

I’m not sure you can really go wrong with a Mini or iMac unless there is something really specific that one does better than another. I do dislike that a 2TB internal drive is the max on the Mini. My last iMac was 4TB although that wasn’t an SSD and now that I’ve worked on an SSD computer, I don’t think I’d ever want to go back.


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## gpax (Aug 3, 2020)

Currently, my machine is a 2019 iMac 3.6 GHz 8-Core i9 (64 Gb Ram).

I run about 50-60 tracks of orchestral instances. If/when fans rev, it is rare (as in weeks/months can go by), and then only lasts about 1 - 2 minutes to cool the machine back to its inaudible self. So it’s never been a sustained event. Even then, it "may" be the result of too many phrase-based instances I throw on top of the other tracks, or when performing the latest OS update, or, it seems, once or twice when I looked at a video tutorial with Logic also running at the time. 

I don’t know if my experience with the 2019 iMac is typical, but last year when it was first released, early tests and reviews were enthusiastic that thermal throttling issues which plagued prior iMacs had been resolved. I would recommend a search to see if this still holds true, but again, my experience has been such that I forget the thing even has fans.


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## Pier (Aug 3, 2020)

MikeK said:


> I started dreaming of my PC days when a computer was more modular. We barely have that with Apple unless you want to go Pro, so the Mini was closest to that for me.



That's why I ended up switching to Windows for my DAW machine after more than a decade in macOS. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I had kept using Logic though (I switched to Live years ago).

For less than $2000 (I think it was closer to $1500) I built a Ryzen PC which is more powerful than the $6000 base Mac Pro. After some adjustments it now runs whisper quiet even when benchmarking with Cinebench using all cores. I can replace/upgrade components as I see fit. I can use any kind of monitors I want. Etc.

Windows is fugly and it has its quirks, but once I get into the DAW there's not much of a difference, and being able to not depend on Apple for the hardware is worth it.

I went the Hackintosh route many times too. The first one was in 2010. It's super easy to boot into macOS, but getting a hackintosh to work 100% as a real Mac is very time consuming. And then good luck with the updates. At one point I decided my time was worth more than that and bought the 5K iMac.

If only Apple sold a tower with iMac specs (non Xeon, non ECC, etc). Maybe in a couple of years with ARM I will switch again to a Mini... but for now I'm very happy with my PC (for gaming and music production).


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## robcs (Aug 3, 2020)

One thing - do not get rid of the old Mac. You can use the older macs as monitors with new Macs (definitely with iMac, and I assume also with the Mini). If you google 'how to use an old mac as a monitor' you'll find plenty of info. I upgraded from a 2010 iMac to a 2019 last year and discovered this by chance - luckily before I scrapped the old one


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## soundmind (Aug 3, 2020)

I went through the exact same research as the OP, also coming from a 2008 8 core Mac Pro. I chose the same 27” iMac i9 as gpax, with 128GB of ram. My experience has been the same, with no fan issues, no T2 chip to deal with, and installed with Mojave. Ram took under one minute to install myself. Have been extremely happy with my decision.


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## Pier (Aug 3, 2020)

robcs said:


> One thing - do not get rid of the old Mac. You can use the older macs as monitors with new Macs (definitely with iMac, and I assume also with the Mini). If you google 'how to use an old mac as a monitor' you'll find plenty of info. I upgraded from a 2010 iMac to a 2019 last year and discovered this by chance - luckily before I scrapped the old one



Is this still possible with 5K iMacs?

AFAIK since the move to retina it's not possible to use iMacs as monitors.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 3, 2020)

gpax said:


> Currently, my machine is a 2019 iMac 3.6 GHz 8-Core i9 (64 Gb Ram).
> 
> I run about 50-60 tracks of orchestral instances. If/when fans rev, it is rare (as in weeks/months can go by), and then only lasts about 1 - 2 minutes to cool the machine back to its inaudible self. So it’s never been a sustained event. Even then, it "may" be the result of too many phrase-based instances I throw on top of the other tracks, or when performing the latest OS update, or, it seems, once or twice when I looked at a video tutorial with Logic also running at the time.
> 
> I don’t know if my experience with the 2019 iMac is typical, but last year when it was first released, early tests and reviews were enthusiastic that thermal throttling issues which plagued prior iMacs had been resolved. I would recommend a search to see if this still holds true, but again, my experience has been such that I forget the thing even has fans.



That’s the machine I want next.


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## robcs (Aug 3, 2020)

Pier said:


> Is this still possible with 5K iMacs?
> 
> AFAIK since the move to retina it's not possible to use iMacs as monitors.



You can't use the 5k iMacs as monitors for other machines, but you can use pre-5K iMacs as monitors for the new ones. The main thing is the 'host' iMac must have a TB port and both machines need to be on 10.6.1 or later


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## Rex282 (Aug 3, 2020)

soundmind said:


> I went through the exact same research as the OP, also coming from a 2008 8 core Mac Pro. I chose the same 27” iMac i9 as gpax, with 128GB of ram. My experience has been the same, with no fan issues, no T2 chip to deal with, and installed with Mojave. Ram took under one minute to install myself. Have been extremely happy with my decision.


Yep I’m with Jay(thanks) I’m getting this also.My 2009 just ain’t cuttin it.


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## rnb_2 (Aug 3, 2020)

Rex282 said:


> Yep I’m with Jay(thanks) I’m getting this also.My 2009 just ain’t cuttin it.



I'll just make the same recommendation I made earlier: if you can, wait 2-3 weeks. Rumors peg new iMac release around the middle of the month, and from what I've been able to find, most retailers do not have stock at the moment and don't anticipate shipping very quickly, so the channel is likely pretty dry right now in anticipation of the new models.


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## Rex282 (Aug 3, 2020)

rnb_2 said:


> I'll just make the same recommendation I made earlier: if you can, wait 2-3 weeks. Rumors peg new iMac release around the middle of the month, and from what I've been able to find, most retailers do not have stock at the moment and don't anticipate shipping very quickly, so the channel is likely pretty dry right now in anticipation of the new models.


Yes the 2019 is a 2 month wait...which is just a little longer Than some of my pieces load up in my 2009 i7.........


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## rnb_2 (Aug 4, 2020)

Or, how about today? Would new iMacs today work for you? ‘Cuz they’re out.


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## jtnyc (Aug 4, 2020)

Buy iMac


The new, strikingly thin 24-inch iMac with M1 chip comes with configurable memory, storage, and more. Available in 7 colors. Learn more at apple.com.



www.apple.com





10 core option and a nano textured screen option as well.


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## rnb_2 (Aug 4, 2020)

jtnyc said:


> Buy iMac
> 
> 
> The new, strikingly thin 24-inch iMac with M1 chip comes with configurable memory, storage, and more. Available in 7 colors. Learn more at apple.com.
> ...



Any of the 27-inch iMacs would make a good base machine for music now, with the high-end standard config particularly attractive, since it's an i7 now instead of an i5 (so not only does it have two more cores than the config it replaces, but also has hyperthreading), plus a 512GB SSD standard (instead of the former Fusion Drive). Get some third-party RAM and you're set.

Also, as a side effect of the availability of a 10-core i9 in the iMac, the base iMac Pro is now the 10-core config at the former 8-core price.


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## Pier (Aug 4, 2020)

jtnyc said:


> Buy iMac
> 
> 
> The new, strikingly thin 24-inch iMac with M1 chip comes with configurable memory, storage, and more. Available in 7 colors. Learn more at apple.com.
> ...



And the T2 chip...

Here are the specs btw (select 27''):









iMac 24-inch - Technical Specifications


24-inch iMac. 4.5k Retina display. 8-core Apple M1 chip. Up to 16GB memory and 2TB of storage. See all technical specifications.



www.apple.com


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## bradbecker (Aug 6, 2020)

I’m guessing the RAM is still user upgradeable and the SSD is still not. Any confirmation out there yet?


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## rnb_2 (Aug 6, 2020)

bradbecker said:


> I’m guessing the RAM is still user upgradeable and the SSD is still not. Any confirmation out there yet?



Effectively, yes - the RAM is definitely user upgradeable, and there are reports that the SSD isn't soldered, but does use a proprietary connector and also has to work with the T2.


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## bradbecker (Aug 6, 2020)

I just saw that. It's definitely preferable to having a soldered HDD.


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## rnb_2 (Aug 7, 2020)

As it turns out, up to 2TB is soldered, but the 4TB and 8TB are proprietary modules. Not upgradeable, regardless.


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