# Sooo many reverbs but which one would you prefer for orchestral use?



## constaneum (Feb 28, 2019)

There are sooooo many good reverbs out there but which would you likely use for orchestra?

1) Altiverb
2) Valhalla Room
3) Bricasti M7 (Seventh Heaven & etc)
4) QL Spaces 1/2
5) R2 Surround / Stereo
6) Lexicon
7) Reverbrate
8) FabFilter
9) VSS3

& etc....

I've watched Spitfire's latest comparison video on the reverb wars (video 2). It's kinda interesting to watch the blind fold test. using ears to judge what you think best without telling you what's the reverb used but would really love to hear what's your preference and why ?

I really like Altiverb and has heard many good things about it but that price....oh my.

p/s: OH MY. I really fall in love with the photos of all the concert hall on Altiverb's websites. https://www.audioease.com/altiverb/browse.php...so beautiful !!


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## LinusW (Feb 28, 2019)

I use R2 Stereo and TSAR-1 for orchestral use.


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## Leon Portelance (Feb 28, 2019)

Altiverb


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## Jdiggity1 (Mar 1, 2019)

Spaces and Seventh Heaven.

Won't take long before your whole list has been ticked off.


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## paulthomson (Mar 1, 2019)

This may or may not be useful!


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## keepitsimple (Mar 1, 2019)

Pro-R, the only one i use now. I smack the Sydney Hall at 12:00 clock and i'm all set.


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## composingkeys (Mar 1, 2019)

Don't forget MIR PRO with its outstanding Roompacks. I really like using the combination of using a soundstage like Teldex from Roompack 2 and then Miracle (an Algorithmic Reverb that comes free with MIR Pro) to enhance the tail.


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## musicalweather (Mar 1, 2019)

I like Acon Digital Verberate and SIR2, both under appreciated, IMO.


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## constaneum (Mar 1, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Spaces and Seventh Heaven.
> 
> Won't take long before your whole list has been ticked off.



That's the thing. The "never satisfied" syndrome is what most people here experiences i guess. But if you do watch the 2nd video, it's been mentioned it's the preference of the Hollywood guys. I believe they're referring to Altiverb ? You guys may watch the video via the following link in case you've missed out the 2nd comparison video


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## EvgenyEmelyanov (Mar 1, 2019)

Orchestral use? Hmmm, I would say 2C B2 or Lexicon.


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## constaneum (Mar 1, 2019)

Leon Portelance said:


> Altiverb



a one time investment for the high price and that's it ?


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## constaneum (Mar 1, 2019)

Do they offer demo or trial license to test out Altiverb ? Coz i wonder whether it works with FL Studio which isn't listed in their tested music production software.


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## Saxer (Mar 1, 2019)

Depends on your libraries. If they are wet: just a little add of long tail. If they are dry: a combi of delay and/or early reflections before the tail. For the tail I mostly use Lexicon Random Hall. Early reflections and delay is a never ending story.


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## Vin (Mar 1, 2019)

TC 6000 or Relab VSR S24 in plugin form (sounds identical) is _the_ sound for me.


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## KallumS (Mar 1, 2019)

I really like Acon Digital Verberate for this purpose. Cheap but natural and clean.


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## Monkberry (Mar 1, 2019)

Liquidsonics Seventh Heaven Professional here.


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## bryla (Mar 1, 2019)

FabFilter and NI RC48


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## Jaap (Mar 1, 2019)

Spaces 1 + 2 are very much used here, as well as the VerbSuite Classics by Slate, but one the should not be overlooked (and is currently on sale I believe) is the Sparkverb from UVI. It has some really nice sound and is extremely light on the CPU.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 1, 2019)

VVV, baby, VVV.


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## N.Caffrey (Mar 1, 2019)

I have Spaces and Seventh Heaven. For orchestral work I prefer Spaces.


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## rottoy (Mar 1, 2019)

I've been using ValhallaRoom exclusively for many years. It can do anything. I love it.


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## holywilly (Mar 1, 2019)

QL space (version I) for short reverb and Sonnox Oxford reverb for tails, sound quite natural IMO.


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## constaneum (Mar 1, 2019)

N.Caffrey said:


> I have Spaces and Seventh Heaven. For orchestral work I prefer Spaces.



What's with seventh heaven. Not good for orchestra ?


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## Ihnoc (Mar 1, 2019)

I'm personally smitten with Valhalla Room and even more so with Valhalla Vintage Verb. I have Spaces but I'm not a huge fan of some of the responses.

As an alternative, maybe try loading some of these in your favourite convolution reverb: http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-impulse-responses/


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## TeamLeader (Mar 1, 2019)

Seventh Heaven Pro and R4.


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## marclawsonmusic (Mar 1, 2019)

QL Spaces 1 (So Cal) for 'Hall'. ValhallaRoom for 'Tail'.


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## Rob Elliott (Mar 1, 2019)

keepitsimple said:


> Pro-R, the only one i use now. I smack the Sydney Hall at 12:00 clock and i'm all set.


IMHO this is the best for orchestral as it leaves the least amount of 'after taste' to the samples. I don't think I remember seeing the 'Sydney Hall' preset though (and what control is set at 12 o'clock?)


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## Living Fossil (Mar 1, 2019)

constaneum said:


> There are sooooo many good reverbs out there but which would you likely use for orchestra?



It's not so relevant which reverbs you use, but rather important to realize how difficult it really is to get things done right.
Of course, you can take reverb XY and put it on your samples and be happy.
But chances are high that you listen to that tracks some years later on a better environment and feel that it sound flat and one dimensional.
In my experience it takes several years to develop the ability of really hearing what's going on and what's needed.
One difficulty is that there is the theoretical part and then there is the part of the ears and the brain that rebuild the spatial impression in another way.
Many things are done right in theory but don't work.
Some things are obviously not right in theory (e.g. adding an additional touch of a plate reverb on the brass section) but might improve the perceived realism.
So far, i haven't heard any "simple" solution that worked. It's usually lots of tweaking and combining different verbs.
Also keep in mind that it won't be enough to simply replicate a "realistic" orchestral environment.
In direct comparison to real performances (at least good ones), mockups generally suck a bit.
So creating a "hyperspace" that's a bit different than a realistic environment might add a creative value, also, because most modern orchestral recordings are far from representing a realistic sound.
They are usually recorded with lots of microphones that capture more details that you would normally hear at a specific position in the concert hall.

p.s. While it's not a reverb, i think that the plugin Precedence of 2C Audio is a fantastic tool to improve the perceived depth.


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## Cinebient (Mar 1, 2019)

Precedence plus Breeze 2. Otherwise B2 and Aether....yep, all the 2CAudio stuff is king (for me) about reverberation for everything.


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## marclawsonmusic (Mar 1, 2019)

paulthomson said:


> This may or may not be useful!




Great video, Paul. Thanks for sharing!


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## richardt4520 (Mar 1, 2019)

TeamLeader said:


> Seventh Heaven Pro and R4.


I'm close behind with Seventh Heaven Pro and Phoenixverb. Haven't tried R4 yet.


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## jbuhler (Mar 1, 2019)

Living Fossil said:


> So creating a "hyperspace" that's a bit different than a realistic environment might add a creative value, also, because most modern orchestral recordings are far from representing a realistic sound.
> They are usually recorded with lots of microphones that capture more details that you would normally hear at a specific position in the concert hall.


This is such an important point and gets at the need to understand the conventions of recording. Commercial orchestral recordings are always representations. But then too the sound changes depending on where you are in the hall, so it’s hard to lock down what is even the “real,” pro-microphonic sound, against which you might evaluate the representation.


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## jononotbono (Mar 1, 2019)

Depends what it's for but I love using Altiverb 7 for convolution, Valhalla Room for Algorithmic, and Eventide Blackhole (for very creative uses). Haven't tried Fabfilter yet but I'm looking forward to when I finally buy the FF bundle.

About to invest in UAD2 so am very much looking forward to checking out their Reverbs.


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## CT (Mar 1, 2019)

rottoy said:


> I've been using ValhallaRoom exclusively for many years. It can do anything. I love it.



This is also my answer.


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## keepitsimple (Mar 1, 2019)

Rob Elliott said:


> IMHO this is the best for orchestral as it leaves the least amount of 'after taste' to the samples. I don't think I remember seeing the 'Sydney Hall' preset though (and what control is set at 12 o'clock?)








Mix Knob at 12:00 Clock, that's what i meant. That hall is in the "Large" category.


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## Architekton (Mar 1, 2019)

For orchestral music - Relab VSR 24, Valhalla Room
For synths, vocals, etc. - Relab LX 480, Valhalla Vintage Verb


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## brenneisen (Mar 1, 2019)

Softube RC 48, any love?


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## GingerMaestro (Mar 1, 2019)

Another couple of interesting videos from those crazy British Spitfire Guys ! Jake Jackson in a great Engineer. Valhala seems to be very popular and great price point too.


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## bryla (Mar 1, 2019)

brenneisen said:


> Softube RC 48, any love?


Yes! I just called it NI RC 48  Random Hall preset is gorgeous!


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## maxime77 (Mar 1, 2019)

Altiverb is a good investment because it gives you real room IRs to have nice early reflections & they also sampled gear IRs (like the Lexicon 480). Plus you can import your own IRs (like the Bricasti ones). So for those who like to do one convolution for the room + one algorithmic for the tail, you can do it with Altiverb. Now, the Bricasti IRs obviously don't sound like the real Bricasti, but as long as it gives you the feeling of an algorithmic reverb, I think it's good enough.

I've also found that reducing the early reflections in Altiverb by a few dB can greatly reduce the muddiness.


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## Johnny (Mar 1, 2019)

I think you'll find most professionals are sneaking in Vallahala when using reverb plugins. If you have dry samples? Be sure to check out Eventide's Stereo Room as well. I use a combination of the two and sometimes a little Virtual Sound Stage- great results!


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## N.Caffrey (Mar 1, 2019)

constaneum said:


> What's with seventh heaven. Not good for orchestra ?


I think it depends on what you want to achieve. I just found personally I prefer the sound of Spaces with traditional orchestral pieces as it seems more realistic to me. But other could have different a different experience.


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## dogdad (Mar 1, 2019)

I mainly (own most) use three verbs - 

1. Reverberate 2 (best all around for or orchestral/natural spaces)
2. Waves Abbey Road Plates (Beautiful Sound)
3. UAD 224 (My favorite ambient verb) 

Most often I just use Reverberate 2 but sometimes I’ll set up three busses and set each verb to be short, medium and long. So Reverberate will have no predelay and a short tail, Abbey Road Plates will have some predelay and a medium tail and then the 224 will have the longest predelay and the longest tail. This way I can combine them and dial in the verb I want for each instrument. The downside is it take a lot of CPU (Abbey Road Plates) on top of all my tracks and Kotakt/Komplete Kontrol instances.


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## Andreas Moisa (Mar 1, 2019)

I would like to chime in Ircam Flux Verb 3!


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## jmauz (Mar 1, 2019)

My Bricasti M7 for dry stuff. Valhalla Room is the current flavor of the month for samples with baked-in verb.


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## Andrew0568 (Mar 1, 2019)

Does anyone have a dry mix they'd be willing to share to try running through different reverbs?

I've been using Slate's Verbsuite but I'm trialing Seventh Heaven to compare them. They may use the same IR's but Verbsuite sounds _very_ different out of the box--a few db louder overall and the bass is much more pronounced


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## Rob Elliott (Mar 1, 2019)

keepitsimple said:


> Mix Knob at 12:00 Clock, that's what i meant. That hall is in the "Large" category.


Cool - I'll have to give that a test ride around the block. Thanks.


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## averystemmler (Mar 1, 2019)

Everything has its strengths, I say. For me, its less about whether a sound is orchestral and more about how the recording interacts with the reverb. Unless your recordings/samples are done in an anechoic chamber, there's probably some kind of reflection in there, and it's tough to predict.

Of the reverbs I own:

Seventh Heaven Pro:
my favorite all-round reverb at the moment, and the only one I own that can convincingly put a wide array of dry samples into small spaces. Usually, it's a battle to get small fake rooms to sound natural, especially with percussion, but seventh heaven does it wonderful, albeit at a cpu cost. The early/late balance, combined with mix (or your send level) and predelay, actually does a really effective job at positioning a source. When I bought this, I was expecting to use it in the ways you might a bricasti, but I'm surprised by how much I like it for...well, everything. I've been using an instance of Precedence on dry instruments to put them in their place before being sent to a group SH instance.

Lexicon PCM Native:
Great tails in the RandomHall. I have one of these per stem lately. I don't really use it for positioning, but vary the send level and predelay sent from each subgroup, depending on how far away they're supposed to be. I make sure everything has a least a little of the lexicon though, since its whole purpose is to glue. I turn the ERs off entirely. I keep trying the non RandomHall options, but can't find a place for them.

Breeze 2:
I like this and I think there's a lot of merit to the one-instance-per-source method and the randomness you can introduce with it, but it takes some effort to get it to sit with sources already recorded in a space. This is true with a lot of algorithmic ERs. When the precedence integration is finished, I might change my tune.

Pro-R:
Easier to dial in than breeze, and with a much more elaborate set of frequency and decay tools. That said, I also feel like I have less control over the "taps" themselves somehow, which makes it very much a "take it or leave it" kind of sound. If you don't like the way their small room sounds on your percussion, there are a few knobs you can fiddle to alter it a bit, but you're kinda stuck in that range. I really like the distance knob though!

Reverberate 2:
I kinda think of it as an inferior version of Seventh Heaven nowadays, but it still has its uses. It's the most flexible convolution engine I've seen, and the ADSR alone can be used in creative ways. Don't use it much for positioning or realism these days, but it's there when weird convolution stuff needs to be done.

Valhalla Vintage Verb:
My go to "make short sound into long sound, no time to explain" reverb. It was the only algorithmic reverb I owned for a long time, and it did just fine.

Valhalla Shimmer
It does what it's supposed to. I don't use it much, but that's not its fault.

Spaces 1:
I stopped using this a while ago. Lack of control made it tough to justify against other options. LiquidSonics' Fusion IRs kinda broke traditional "static" convolution for me in general.


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## Rob Elliott (Mar 1, 2019)

keepitsimple said:


> Mix Knob at 12:00 Clock, that's what i meant. That hall is in the "Large" category.


Are you setting that 'mix' to 50% as a 'send' verb buss? I ask as I have my verbs on send busses and setting the 'mix' is usually done with 'amount' of send level to buss.


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## keepitsimple (Mar 1, 2019)

Rob Elliott said:


> Are you setting that 'mix' to 50% as a 'send' verb buss? I ask as I have my verbs on send busses and setting the 'mix' is usually done with 'amount' of send level to buss.


Nope, i add it to the track. Stopped putting reverbs on return buses a while ago.


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## BenHicks (Mar 1, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Spaces and Seventh Heaven.



I second this, but those are all pretty solid reverbs, tbh. I sometimes use Valhalla Room and VSS3 as well.


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## artomatic (Mar 1, 2019)

My go-to is Valhalla Room for orchestral work.
In addition, I also use Spaces ll or Altiverb, Lexicon PCM Native and Eventide.


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## JohnG (Mar 1, 2019)

I'm all for a come-one-come-all thread, but I guess the choice of reverb varies pretty dramatically with the type of music and style of music you're recording or mixing.

If it's a dreamy, other-worldly exotic sound you want, that's one thing. If you want a drum kit that is taking your head off, that's obviously quite another.

So not to, ahem, direct, but it would be helpful if commentators specified the purpose / application they have in mind when making recommendations, as an aid to others.

[edit: I do realise there's a reference to "orchestral" in the title of the thread, but some recommendations here don't seem anchored in that sphere.]


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## maxime77 (Mar 1, 2019)

Here's CSS ensemble patch with Altiverb

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/reverb-mp3.18718/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## José Herring (Mar 1, 2019)

I use to use convolution reverbs from Peter Emanual Roos. I really thought they where wonderful. Something about the way he does convo verb that hasn't really been duplicated by others. 

Some years ago though I got tired of strictly convo reverbs so switched to Algo verbs. I really like Valhalla Room and use it almost exclusively. 

Thanks to this thread though I got interested in the hybrid approach. The 7th Heaven reverb sounds really, really nice. I mean like the best of both worlds nice.


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## José Herring (Mar 1, 2019)

maxime77 said:


> Here's CSS ensemble patch with Altiverb
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/reverb-mp3.18718/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Sounds really nice. The only thing with convo reverbs that I don't like is that there's this cloudiness or build up that is the sonic equivalent of a cloud of smoke. But on the other hand I can really hear that gorgeous hall.


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## maxime77 (Mar 1, 2019)

josejherring said:


> Sounds really nice. The only thing with convo reverbs that I don't like is that there's this cloudiness or build up that is the sonic equivalent of a cloud of smoke. But on the other hand I can really hear that gorgeous hall.



I actually used 1 Altiverb with Todd AO + one with a Bricasti IR, so the cloud of smoke might be my fault


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## MartinH. (Mar 1, 2019)

brenneisen said:


> Softube RC 48, any love?



I'm certainly not a reverb connaisseur, but I'm using this too and feel like it covers my needs for algorithmic reverb very well.


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## Fleer (Mar 1, 2019)

FabFilter Pro-R is my orchestral verb of choice.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2019)

When watching Christian's reverb comparison videos, it seems that they all can get the job done and more expensive doesn't always sound that much better when doing a blind taste test.

That said, I use Pro-R on almost everything, the interface makes it easy for me to adapt to my needs.


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## axb312 (Mar 1, 2019)

Spaces and Valhalla Room....


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## ChristopherDoucet (Mar 1, 2019)

I use Exponential Audio's Symphony and Stratus Surround as my main reverb in my template. I also love PhoenixVerb Surround. I use a lot of other reverbs like UAD lexicon224 and Blackhole for certain fun things, but for orchestral, I cant stop using Symphony and R2.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 2, 2019)

I use Valhalla Room as a default because it’s the best combination of low CPU use and good sound that I’ve found, which is helpful when you have a computer as ancient as mine.

If you have VR, try the Den presets (if you haven’t already.) Very good programming. “”Blade Runner” is a recent favorite. As an insert, it offers instant otherworldliness.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 2, 2019)

It ain’t what you use it’s rhe way that you use it. The sheer diversity of responses - often quite definitive but mutually inconsistent - is a big clue.

For us, the big problem is in blending libraries recorded quite differently. Slamming Symphobia into the same setup as Hollywood Strings, still less VSL Silent Stage, won’t work. I find individual control of ER and Tail across libs a good bare bones lo-tech start.

Just got Altiverb, but for Post really. If you just need it for orchestral and have other good options, it’s far from essential imo. If Altiverb 8 had different inputs for ER and Tail it might get interesting, otherwise you’d need a lot of instances to match 2 separate verbs imo (assuming you’re blending libs).


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## chocobitz825 (Mar 2, 2019)

Altiverb (Great spaces)
QL Spaces II (has really good presets out the box)
MIR PRO (great for placement and space)

and using hollywood IR for tail


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## Manuel Stumpf (Mar 2, 2019)

I like
1) Seventh Heaven
For just everything. A really flexible reverb.
For placing instruments in a room or for creating longer tails.
Already the basic version has the most important parameters to tweak .
Only downside is, it is a bit CPU hungry .

2) Valhalla Room
A lot less CPU hungry . But still a good sounding reverb.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 2, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


> It ain’t what you use it’s rhe way that you use it. The sheer diversity of responses - often quite definitive but mutually inconsistent - is a big clue.


This should be stamped in gold letters at the top of every VI control page.


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## D Halgren (Mar 2, 2019)

Relab VSR S24 and LX480
Fabfilter Pro-R
Eventide Blackhole 
Convolution Pro


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## Fleer (Mar 2, 2019)

And, totally unsuited but so good: Zynaptiq Adaptiverb.


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## Dandezebra (Mar 2, 2019)

B2 or Breeze 2 for most orchestral applications. 

Blackhole or other 2CAudio for fun. 

Reverberate 2 for convolution.


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2019)

Lately, for Acoustic/Orchestral work, my go to Reverb is *EW-Spaces II*.

I find it very transparent, low CPU usage, and provides a very natural sounding reverberation, and it offers many types/sizes of halls/rooms to choose from. 

I also use Algorithmic Reverb from various developers (i.e. Valhalla, Exponential Audio, ..etc.) to fine tune the overall mix to taste, or add specific sonic character, but I always have Spaces II ready in my mix, for most orchestral projects.


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## Ben (Mar 2, 2019)

I use MIR Pro + MIRacle to get a hybrid reverb.

If the sound of the convolution reverb gets too muddy, put an high-pass on the send to the reverb (in MIR there is a Room-eq that does exactly that).


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## Ihnoc (Mar 2, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> I'm certainly not a reverb connaisseur, but I'm using this too and feel like it covers my needs for algorithmic reverb very well.



I would really value some pointers on this one. Any time (rock mixes, light orchestral music) I have used RC48, I have found I end up with this thick cloud over the mix. I feel like this is a result of me not understanding the plugin, as I find Valhalla Room, Vintage Verb, even the Waves and Cubase reverbs don't give this character.

Any tips?


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## MartinH. (Mar 2, 2019)

Ihnoc said:


> I would really value some pointers on this one. Any time (rock mixes, light orchestral music) I have used RC48, I have found I end up with this thick cloud over the mix. I feel like this is a result of me not understanding the plugin, as I find Valhalla Room, Vintage Verb, even the Waves and Cubase reverbs don't give this character.
> 
> Any tips?



Don't have any tips since I don't know any of the other reverbs that you mention. For all I know I could have that "thick cloud" too and I just like it...


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## JohnG (Mar 2, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


> I find individual control of ER and Tail across libs a good bare bones lo-tech start.



I can understand that Guy, given your use of VSL / silent stage samples (assuming you still use those). But for those who are using "room" or "hall" mic positions (by contrast with close or silent-stage samples), ERs are not something I'd bother with; I think it adds complexity and can cause more problems than it solves.

Complexity can be hard to avoid but, especially when beginning, it can be a huge distraction.

I think that it's more important to get a "pretty good" reverb as a send option, dial that in for your instrument sections using a four- or eight-bar passage of a mockup you like, and then spend more time on your notes when composing. 

Admittedly, I do use different reverb settings for shorts and longs, but even that is not necessary to get a musical, pleasing sound.


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## Mason (Mar 2, 2019)

I use a short (2.2s) church preset from Spaces 2 to create something similar to Air Studios and currently R2 as an overall tail reverb.


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## sotosonic (Mar 2, 2019)

Ihnoc said:


> I would really value some pointers on this one. Any time (rock mixes, light orchestral music) I have used RC48, I have found I end up with this thick cloud over the mix. I feel like this is a result of me not understanding the plugin, as I find Valhalla Room, Vintage Verb, even the Waves and Cubase reverbs don't give this character.
> 
> Any tips?


Have you tried using EQ on the reverb channel before the reverb fx so you cut the mud frequencies before not after? I use low and hi pass on the reverb channel to cut those frequencies which muddy the mix before they hit the reverb to get a cleaner sound.


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## JohnG (Mar 2, 2019)

sotosonic said:


> I use low and hi pass on the reverb channel to cut those frequencies which muddy the mix before they hit the reverb



good advice ^^. Start with a low cut at about 100 and a high cut at 2.5k for a "big" sound -- but you can use a drastically narrower band for pop music and it can still work. I've seen people use extremely narrow bands on guitar and snare, for example.


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## MartinH. (Mar 2, 2019)

Apologies in advance if this is a dumb question or the wrong place for it, but what do I need to do to make the green curve look more like to blue curve in this screenshot? 







Is this something that can be done with reverb?

EQ moves the overall graph I think, but doesn't make the differences between peaks and valleys on the graph smaller, right? What does then?


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## NoamL (Mar 2, 2019)

Looks like a job for compression, specifically a multiband compressor with the compression focused on whatever frequency range is represented by the 5th-15th peaks of your input signal.


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## Lee Blaske (Mar 2, 2019)

I've got a lot of verb plug-ins, but I seem to be gravitating more to synth verbs than convolution verbs. I use VSS3 and Pro-R pretty often. Really like Galbanum B2 a lot, too (it uses a LOT of computer power, though). I've got Altiverb, Seventh Heaven, Waves IR, etc., but just don't seem to use them that much.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 2, 2019)

JohnG said:


> I can understand that Guy, given your use of VSL / silent stage samples (assuming you still use those). But for those who are using "room" or "hall" mic positions (by contrast with close or silent-stage samples), ERs are not something I'd bother with; I think it adds complexity and can cause more problems than it solves.



Yes, I agree. For orchestral use, ER is obviously critical for dry stuff, but it’s usually not necessary for others. The exception would be if you’re having to use close mics predominantly for some reason, some ambient libraries have better legato on close.


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## MartinH. (Mar 2, 2019)

NoamL said:


> Looks like a job for compression, specifically a multiband compressor with the compression focused on whatever frequency range is represented by the 5th-15th peaks of your input signal.



Thanks for the recommendation! I tried it, but I didn't get the result that I was after. Did you mean 1 band of multibandcompression for that whole area, or one band per peak? 

I've come much closer, though not with any kind of effect, but by changing the orchestration instead: 





I've looked for instruments that have "noise" in that high frequency range to "fill the gaps", and by adding pedal tone on basses and some drums I'm now much closer to the reference track. Seems like I was looking in the wrong place (fx) for the answer at first.


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## storyteller (Mar 2, 2019)

After reviewing my favorite personal orchestral mixes so far, I keep coming back to a mix that used close mics on each instrument, 4 instances of IR1 (w four different Disney Hall IRs) to simulate different mic placements in a hall, some Phoenix Verb + Rverb on the submix of the 4 IR instances to make the hall sound rich and warm. The master had a touch of phoenix verb on a bus as well after a multi band compression. This worked great for that particular use case.


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## Ihnoc (Mar 3, 2019)

storyteller said:


> After reviewing my favorite personal orchestral mixes so far, I keep coming back to a mix that used close mics on each instrument, 4 instances of IR1 (w four different Disney Hall IRs) to simulate different mic placements in a hall, some Phoenix Verb + Rverb on the submix of the 4 IR instances to make the hall sound rich and warm. The master had a touch of phoenix verb on a bus as well after a multi band compression. This worked great for that particular use case.



Thanks for reminding me about the Waves IR library (which one can get here if you own one of the IR plugins). What an incredible library, with some famous concert halls, opera houses and clubs, as well as devices! Having said that, I'm not certain I had to go to California the last time I went to the Hammersmith Apollo!


----------



## AR (Mar 3, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> Apologies in advance if this is a dumb question or the wrong place for it, but what do I need to do to make the green curve look more like to blue curve in this screenshot?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Waves F6


----------



## Aaron Sapp (Mar 3, 2019)

I had this conundrum some time ago (which verb for orchestral). After trying out a load of plugins I ended up landing on the Lexicon PCM reverbs. Nice transparency and fairly neutral.


----------



## Bansaw (Mar 3, 2019)

I demoed a lot of mid-price range reverbs.
*VSS3 *was a hands down winner for me. That came down to $109 on BF. Glued everyting together nicely for me.
I think if I had way more money I'd probably go for the Lexicon though. Christian Henson and Jake somebody did a terrific video "reverb shoot out" that I'd recommend watching.


----------



## jamieboo (Mar 3, 2019)

This is something I'm very curious about too.

I write music that strives, with great futility, for a John Williamsy sound.

I use Hollywood Orchestra Diamond.
I use Mid mics for Strings, Close for woodwinds, and Main mics for everything else.
I have each section sending to a separate FX channel each with a section-appropriate instance of Spaces on:
So. Cal. Hall Winds (3.3s)
So. Cal. Hall Brass (3.4s)
So. Cal. Hall Orc Perc (3.3s)
So. Cal. Hall Strings (3.4s)

And on my output I have another instance of Spaces - Berlin Church A (4.8s)

Considering the sound I am going for, is this set up along the right track?

I have a really good ear for things like pitch and harmony but for more 'production' elements I have ears of porridge.

I once tried Cubase's built in Algo reverb - Roomworks - on the output, as I'd read that algo can counter the 'static' maths of a convo reverb. It sounded in some way different but I think I prefer the Berlin Church on the output.
Does it make sense having the shorter responses on the sections and then the longer response on the overall output, or should it be the other way around - or does it not matter?
Should the section responses be shorter, because 3.3s is already quite long?

I know there is no definitive answer to this kind of thing, but since I do have a fairly specific sound in mind, what might be the recommended approach?

Thanks.


----------



## prodigalson (Mar 3, 2019)

I have used Altiverb a lot and the UAD EMT 140 with Valhalla Vintage Verb but not long ago landed on the Lexicon PCM as my favorite sweet but still neutral orchestral verb.

That being said, a Bricasti M7 is next on my list of major purchases for my studio just because I'm just so curious about what it will bring to the table.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Mar 3, 2019)

QL Spaces works for me most of the time. I do however own Altiverb and am first to champion its quality.

Sometimes Valhalla Vintage can be a secret weapon.


----------



## JohnG (Mar 3, 2019)

jamieboo said:


> I write music that strives, with great futility, for a John Williamsy sound.
> 
> ....what might be the recommended approach?



A quibbler might argue that are any number of "John Williams sounds" but I hope I know what you mean.

You have a heck of a lot of moving parts there, friend. When I listen to JW's scores (the "big" ones) I feel that I'm sitting in a fairly spacey concert hall. Unless you are producing stems for a dub stage,* adding different reverbs for each section is a lot of work for marginal benefit. 

Accordingly, just for an experiment, try turning ALL the reverbs off (bypassing them) and instead try to get closer to your sound by substituting different mic positions on your samples. See how accurately you can emulate the sound you want just by using alternate mic positions. 

Then turn on just _one_ reverb (Spaces sounds fine) and start dialing in a bit for each instrument / section. (I assume you're using it as a "send" rather than an insert? If not, I'd recommend doing the send approach.)

I think that many people over-complicate all this. In the olden days (like when Star Wars was recorded, for example) when you had to have hardware for each reverb, using five or ten reverbs was not at all common. Now that multiple FX is "free," I see a lot of really complicated setups.


* In which case your reverbs by section have to be separated from each other so they can mangle and destroy your music -- whine, sniffle -- by, say, turning off your brass or percussion.


----------



## dgburns (Mar 3, 2019)

Surprised to discover the stock Cubase surround verb is getting a lot of love over here for orchestral stuff. Sprinkled with a bit of magic fairy dust from Valhalla Room. IMHO as always.


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## dgburns (Mar 3, 2019)

@JohnG I remember thinking those original SW tracks sounded really dry and punchy, not wet at all by today's standards. If I were to try and re-create that, I'd go for a score stage type verb.


----------



## JohnG (Mar 3, 2019)

dgburns said:


> @JohnG I remember thinking those original SW tracks sounded really dry and punchy, not wet at all by today's standards. If I were to try and re-create that, I'd go for a score stage type verb.



You might be right @dgburns Honestly what I remember and what they actually sound like could well be totally different. Besides, how many _versions_ of his scores are out there? Undoubtedly, regarding recording style, there's a range to those as well.


----------



## Brentishere (Mar 3, 2019)

Eareckon Eareverb.
It’s spatial positioning is more to my liking than MTurboReverb.


----------



## Ihnoc (Mar 3, 2019)

dgburns said:


> @JohnG I remember thinking those original SW tracks sounded really dry and punchy, not wet at all by today's standards. If I were to try and re-create that, I'd go for a score stage type verb.



I realise that this is a plugin thread, but if you want some more information about specifically those scores, I would recommend take a read of this excellent write up of the recording and CD versions of the Star Wars scores: http://www.malonedigital.com/starwars.pdf


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 3, 2019)

(the first Star Wars score was extremely dry, very present, very wide, loads of mid, gets kinda crunchy. Sounds amazing, but people would think you were mad if you turned in a mix like that today. It was recorded at Anvil Studios in the UK which closed not many years afterwards. In a way A New Hope feels like a final chapter in that dry 40s-70s movie sound tradition, a boat load of excitable ER. All those lush tails seemed to start very soon afterwards. Empire is a more conventional sounding score to modern ears)


----------



## Alex Fraser (Mar 3, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


> (the first Star Wars score was extremely dry, very present, very wide, loads of mid, gets kinda crunchy. Sounds amazing, but people would think you were mad if you turned in a mix like that today. It was recorded at Anvil Studios in the UK which closed not many years afterwards. In a way A New Hope feels like a final chapter in that dry 40s-70s movie sound tradition, a boat load of excitable ER. All those lush tails seemed to start very soon afterwards. Empire is a more conventional sounding score to modern ears)


Oh, yeah. That first Star Wars score is really dry. I'd recommend anyone have a listen. It's quite different to modern day sensibilities.

Also, I'd like to echo what John G and others have been saying. IMO, there's a *lot* of overcomplicating going on here. A lot of technical baggage for diminishing returns. The tech should ultimately be something that "gets out of the way" so you can write the damn music, not something that constantly needs tweaking and attending to. My 2c.

Also, whilst we're skirting the subject of John Williams, I'm convinced he was able to write his output not only thanks to a God like talent, but because he wasn't distracted by IR's, 5 different algo reverbs and a 2000 track template. 
A


----------



## JohnG (Mar 3, 2019)

good one @Alex Fraser

Then there are the multiple versions; "remastered," "reissued," and compilations. Not to mention the differences between what the stage received, on the one hand, and how it sounds in the movie, on the other hand, which could have far more reverb on it.

This thread did get me to re-listen to some old favourites


----------



## Alex Fraser (Mar 3, 2019)

JohnG said:


> This thread did get me to re-listen to some old favourites


Same here!


----------



## axb312 (Mar 8, 2019)

What are your favourite Valhalla Room orchestral presets guys?


----------



## dgburns (Mar 8, 2019)

@axb312 - the ones I make. 

For orchestral use, as a general verb, I keep the decay under 2.5 sec, but that could be longer if the music is slow and legato. Try the different altos to see what you prefer. Try the presets first, there are a lot of good starting points. The Den ones in particular.

Make your own presets, it's easy


----------



## averystemmler (Mar 8, 2019)

I've heard that, as very general rule, 1.8 seconds is an "ideal" hall's RT60 for authentic orchestral music in general. As always, variables variables variables, etc etc etc, but it can be a good starting point. 

I think that's what Boston's Symphony Hall is designed to be at full capacity? But don't quote me on that.


----------



## Vin (Mar 8, 2019)

axb312 said:


> What are your favourite Valhalla Room orchestral presets guys?



Not using it anymore, but you can try this one, got a lot mileage out of it:

<ValhallaRoom pluginVersion="1.1.1" presetName="Boston Hall Custom" mix="1" predelay="0.05000000074505806" decay="0.020020019263029099" HighCut="0.39664429426193237" earlyLateMix="0.89899998903274536" lateSize="0.40999999642372131" lateCross="1" lateModRate="0.090909093618392944" lateModDepth="0.15000000596046448" RTBassMultiply="0.36666667461395264" RTXover="0.019191918894648552" RTHighMultiply="0.44444447755813599" RTHighXover="0.23825503885746002" earlySize="0.029029028490185738" earlyCross="0.10000000149011612" earlyModRate="0.090909093618392944" earlyModDepth="0" earlySend="0" diffusion="0.56000000238418579" type="0.083333335816860199"/>


----------



## garylionelli (Mar 8, 2019)

I have a hardware Bricasti and Seventh Heaven, and while they are close, the Bricasti hardware most definitely sounds more alive and animated than Seventh Heaven. However, I recently got Exponential Audio's Symphony 3D reverb and I've decided to use that instead of the Bricasti on a score I'll be delivering next week. I found that with Symphony it was very easy to virtually match my favorite Bricasti preset, which is their Mechanics Hall. The Symphony can sound alive and vibrant and adds a lot of dimension to the music, just like the Bricasti. And now I don't have to always do a real-time bounce, and I have surround.


----------



## Ashermusic (Mar 8, 2019)

garylionelli said:


> However, I recently got Exponential Audio's Symphony 3D reverb .



No Audio Unit? Odd in this day and age. The basic one is however.


----------



## axb312 (Mar 8, 2019)

Vin said:


> Not using it anymore, but you can try this one, got a lot mileage out of it:
> 
> <ValhallaRoom pluginVersion="1.1.1" presetName="Boston Hall Custom" mix="1" predelay="0.05000000074505806" decay="0.020020019263029099" HighCut="0.39664429426193237" earlyLateMix="0.89899998903274536" lateSize="0.40999999642372131" lateCross="1" lateModRate="0.090909093618392944" lateModDepth="0.15000000596046448" RTBassMultiply="0.36666667461395264" RTXover="0.019191918894648552" RTHighMultiply="0.44444447755813599" RTHighXover="0.23825503885746002" earlySize="0.029029028490185738" earlyCross="0.10000000149011612" earlyModRate="0.090909093618392944" earlyModDepth="0" earlySend="0" diffusion="0.56000000238418579" type="0.083333335816860199"/>



Thank you!


----------



## garylionelli (Mar 8, 2019)

Hey Jay! Liked your CD! They do have an Audio Unit's version...oh, I stand corrected. The standard Symphony does AU, but the 3D doesn't. Really odd...


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## Ashermusic (Mar 8, 2019)

garylionelli said:


> Hey Jay! Liked your CD! They do have an Audio Unit's version...




Thanks Gary.




Not the 3D version


----------



## garylionelli (Mar 8, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Thanks Gary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, just checked, you are right. Only the standard version does AU, not the 3D. Very odd. But the standard version still does surround, just not Atmos.


----------



## Jack Weaver (Mar 8, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> No Audio Unit? Odd in this day and age. The basic one is however.


The 3D version supports Atmos and Auro. Do you really need these for your work? The basic Symphony supports the usual surround formats. Those seem to work for a lot of us plebes.

.

(Uhh.... like garylionelli said 2 minutes before me.)


----------



## Kent (Mar 11, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


> (the first Star Wars score was extremely dry, very present, very wide, loads of mid, gets kinda crunchy. Sounds amazing, but people would think you were mad if you turned in a mix like that today. It was recorded at Anvil Studios in the UK which closed not many years afterwards. In a way A New Hope feels like a final chapter in that dry 40s-70s movie sound tradition, a boat load of excitable ER. All those lush tails seemed to start very soon afterwards. Empire is a more conventional sounding score to modern ears)


it is precisely for this reason that SWIV is my favorite of the scores - not the most pristine recording, but definitely the most "beautiful" to my ears. (It doesn't hurt that JW was still figuring out a few things about the "Star Wars Sound" and was, in some ways, much more experimental with his music than he would be again)


----------



## maxime77 (Mar 11, 2019)

I was just listening to the Star Wars IV soundtrack, and indeed it is very dry... but in a good way. You can very much visualise the orchestra sitting in front of you. I really like it.


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## maxime77 (Mar 11, 2019)

Which reverb do you think was used on that piano? It sounds to me like Valhalla Vintage Verb:


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## Rap-sody (Mar 11, 2019)

To answer the question of the thread, I prefer Spaces.


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## shawnsingh (Mar 11, 2019)

Hi all, I think it would be helpful to add more information about the way you are using the reverbs. Because the mic positions and the sound of the libraries/recordings you use - will of course affect the kind of reverb you might want in addition.

For example, Hollywood orchestra gold has strong (but lovely) early reflections, so I found that a convolution reverb without a strong early reflection component worked well for my taste. I ended up using EWQL Spaces SF hall FR, and set predelay to zero.

OT Libraries, I found the tree-only mic position was wet enough for my taste already, but occasionally Valhalla room algorithmic reverb, with modulation off, sounds pretty natural to my ears. And if I wanted it to get very rich and thick reverb, Valhalla room, vintage verb and fabfilter pro R were all great to me.

Extremely dry libraries like VSL, I've kinda given up on mixing them to have great early reflections
but at least I had found that using delay for panning (ranging from 0.1 - 5 millisecond delay between L and R channels) helped give dry libraries a more spacious panned sound before putting them through a convolution reverb. I think it worked better to delay-pan each instrument uniquely, but only the dry signal.


----------



## constaneum (Mar 11, 2019)

OT libraries. I think they might be on the same wetness as Cinematic Studio series or Cinematic Studio drier ?


----------



## averystemmler (Mar 12, 2019)

constaneum said:


> OT libraries. I think they might be on the same wetness as Cinematic Studio series or Cinematic Studio drier ?



The cinematic studio series is much drier, at least compared to the OT libraries I own (Arks I and II - I assume all Teldex libraries are similar?). CSx libraries do have a sense of space, but a very short tail.


----------



## Brian Nowak (Mar 13, 2019)

Gotta say - this thread and another forum's thread on reverb has me participating in the 21-day demo of Nimbus. It might unseat VROOM as my go-to reverb. I'm happy for the 21-day trial, though. I can compare and contrast for a while and come to a good decision.


----------



## H.R. (Mar 13, 2019)

Lexicon was my favorite until Fabfilter Pro-R came out. TBH, anything by Fabfilter is best for anything


----------



## Doug (Mar 15, 2019)

Anyone tried Convology (XT)? Their plugin is free and comes with 70 of their IR presets. I think this is a new product. Or new to me. https://impulserecord.com/convology-xt/


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## axb312 (Mar 15, 2019)

I would request all of you to give the demo of Verberate 2 a shot.

https://acondigital.com/products/verberate/


----------



## constaneum (Mar 15, 2019)

H.R. said:


> Lexicon was my favorite until Fabfilter Pro-R came out. TBH, anything by Fabfilter is best for anything



What's nice about fabfilter's? Curious.


----------



## NODZ (Mar 15, 2019)

constaneum said:


> What's nice about fabfilter's? Curious.


It is a really tweakable reverb that produces a quite organic sound. 

I use Fabfilter Pro-R and EW Spaces as reverbs for orchestral music.


----------



## averystemmler (Mar 15, 2019)

constaneum said:


> What's nice about fabfilter's? Curious.



It's, in my opinion, the best balance of flexible and intuitive of the "transparent" algorithmic reverbs I've tried. It's really good at positioning dry/dryish signals in a space, and it's light enough that you can put many instances on smaller groups and tailor the dampening and EQ as needed.

And, as with all FF products, it's easy on the eyes and very thoughtfully designed.


----------



## ManicMiner (Apr 11, 2019)

I demoed a lot of them, mid-price range. Settled on VSS3
Just today actually I bought Blackhole for $29


----------



## constaneum (Apr 11, 2019)

as for me, i ended up with 7th heaven pro.


----------



## ChristianM (Apr 13, 2019)

It seems that the upgrade of space 2 from space 1 does not exist anymore ...
I found anyway this upgrade much too expensive since it always came back to So.Cal to have the microphones of all the orchestral instruments in same space.

Now, I use 7th heaven pro.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Apr 13, 2019)

For orchestral use, I use VSS3, FabFilter Pro-R, Lexicon and 2CAudio B2. B2 is fantastic, but it uses a LOT of computer power. I've got all the high-end convolution verbs (7th Heaven Pro, Altiverb, MIR, etc.) but I just find I get better results with algorithmic reverbs (more clarity and transparency). Blackhole and Mangledverb are fantastic for non-realistic sounds.


----------



## Will Blackburn (Apr 13, 2019)

B2 for the psycho acoustics + Fab R for hall.


----------



## dexterjettser (Apr 13, 2019)

I love FF pro-R because how easy it is to use. Great ui, feels like it was built for composers. Like all the other FF plugins they’re so easy to use but you can get really detailed and advanced.


----------



## Pixelee (Apr 14, 2019)

Valhalla Room and Reverence (Cubase stock)


----------



## Doug (Apr 14, 2019)

FYI Fabfilter plugins (including Pro-R) are 40% off at audiodeluxe, jrrshop and probably others.


----------



## Akarin (Apr 15, 2019)

I love these reverb threads... I use a complicated setup of several Spaces 2 instances to try to match Spitfire libs early reflections (Berlin Church, 2.2s with decay set at 90% comes close to Air Studios) and VSS3 for the glue/tail reverb...

...and then, I realized that non musicians absolutely can't tell the difference with those times where I'm lazy and just slap Valhalla Room or Pro-R on the master bus :-p


----------



## ManicMiner (Apr 15, 2019)

Akarin said:


> and VSS3 for the glue/tail reverb...


Good word for VSS3, glue. I tried FF Pro-R alongside it and VSS3 was a huge difference for me. Just brought everything together in the same space.


----------



## DerGeist (Apr 15, 2019)

For anyone using live, I really like the free (with suite) convolution reverb pack.

https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/convolution-reverb/


----------



## ricoderks (Apr 15, 2019)

Lee Blaske said:


> For orchestral use, I use VSS3, FabFilter Pro-R, Lexicon and 2CAudio B2. B2 is fantastic, but it uses a LOT of computer power. I've got all the high-end convolution verbs (7th Heaven Pro, Altiverb, MIR, etc.) but I just find I get better results with algorithmic reverbs (more clarity and transparency). Blackhole and Mangledverb are fantastic for non-realistic sounds.


I think Seventh Heaven is absolutely great. Especially with a algorithmic blend like b2 of Pro-R. I wished B2 was less cpu consuming.... :(


----------



## Will Blackburn (May 5, 2019)

Could anyone with Reverberate clarify for me how to use true stereo impulses correctly? A tad confused with the A/B options underneath both IR 1 & 2 in the presets section. If i'm loading two True Stereo impulse (L & R) should L be on 'Ir1 A' and R on 'Ir2 A' ?? By default it loads L on Ir1 A and R on Ir1 B but seems to sound much wider and denser with one on Ira1 A and one on Ir2 A ?????


----------



## lpuser (May 5, 2019)

ChristianM said:


> It seems that the upgrade of space 2 from space 1 does not exist anymore ...



It still exists and is on the product page via "buy now". Pricing is indeed a bit high, but I found Spaces to be one of the best reverbs for classical instruments. I have also tested 7th Heaven (which is nearly equally expensive) but it did not match my personal taste. Reverbs is always a difficult topic and depends a lot on which sound one likes or not...


----------



## mojamusic (May 21, 2019)

What are your thoughts on Virtual Sound Stage 2 by Parallax Audio?


----------



## constaneum (May 22, 2019)

mojamusic said:


> What are your thoughts on Virtual Sound Stage 2 by Parallax Audio?



Virtual Sound Stage 2 is good for positioning. However, the space realism wise i think it's better with other contenders


----------



## jaketanner (May 22, 2019)

I am going to through one in here that many do not even know exists. It's part of the Relab subscription: VSRS24 is an emulation of the TC6000...High quality reverb(s). https://relabdevelopment.com/product/vsr-s24/


----------



## AdamKmusic (May 22, 2019)

I recently bought Valhalla Room & its now my go to! Although sometimes there will be some kind of metallic hiss on the release, but for the most part that's not noticeable.


----------



## jonathanparham (May 28, 2019)

constaneum said:


> Virtual Sound Stage 2 is good for positioning. However, the space realism wise I think it's better with other contenders


 do mean to derail, but is Virtual Sound Stage Better per instrument/ track or one instance pre sub group?


----------



## constaneum (May 28, 2019)

jonathanparham said:


> do mean to derail, but is Virtual Sound Stage Better per instrument/ track or one instance pre sub group?



i think per instrument.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (May 28, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> QL Spaces works for me most of the time. I do however own Altiverb and am first to champion its quality.
> 
> Sometimes Valhalla Vintage can be a secret weapon.



I just added Vallala Vintage.


----------



## Serg Halen (May 28, 2019)

Lexicon or Valhalla's reverbs (any), not convolution reverbs, my opinion.


----------



## rlundv (May 29, 2019)

garylionelli said:


> I have a hardware Bricasti and Seventh Heaven, and while they are close, the Bricasti hardware most definitely sounds more alive and animated than Seventh Heaven. However, I recently got Exponential Audio's Symphony 3D reverb and I've decided to use that instead of the Bricasti on a score I'll be delivering next week. I found that with Symphony it was very easy to virtually match my favorite Bricasti preset, which is their Mechanics Hall. The Symphony can sound alive and vibrant and adds a lot of dimension to the music, just like the Bricasti. And now I don't have to always do a real-time bounce, and I have surround.


Very interesting! I just bought this plugin myself. Care to elaborate on how you recreated the "Bricasti-sound" using Symphony-plugin?


----------



## Parsifal666 (May 29, 2019)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I just added Vallala Vintage.



Great stuff, and not just for the price. I have a lot of fun with that one, Room is great too.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (May 29, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> Great stuff, and not just for the price. I have a lot of fun with that one, Room is great too.



i meant - added to my Valhalla arsenal - i now have Room and Vintage.

i had Shimmer and Plate a while back, but silly me, sold them.

pastor Zoot is born again Valhalla.


----------



## Parsifal666 (May 29, 2019)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i meant - added to my Valhalla arsenal - i now have Room and Vintage.
> 
> i had Shimmer and Plate a while back, but silly me, sold them.
> 
> pastor Zoot is born again Valhalla.



Hail Walhalla, brash Siegfried!




...or somethin'


----------



## Ryan Fultz (May 29, 2019)

I must be the only person on the planet not in love with Valhalla. I have the room verb and it really didn't compare to anything I was using. The company name is so cool and I want to like it so much, but every time I end up taking it off and using something else.

I currently use the lexicon random hall and the lexicon plate (on non-orchestral instruments I put into the orchestra I really like how they fit with the plate verb) 98% of the time, occasionally eventide blackhole when I need something a bit different and out there. I can't really see anything replacing them unless a tc6000 or bricasti falls into my lap or altiverb goes on sale at some insane price one day that makes me jettison all knowledge that my plugins are doing everything I need them to do already.

I don't use it anymore, but I got the H-verb from waves years ago and for a very long time it was my go to for all things verb. I never hear anyone mention, but it was great and served me very well until I started investing more money other things.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (May 29, 2019)

Ryan Fultz said:


> I must be the only person on the planet not in love with Valhalla. I have the room verb and it really didn't compare to anything I was using. The company name is so cool and I want to like it so much, but every time I end up taking it off and using something else.



i had 3 Valhalla products a few years ago.

like you, i tried to like them back then, but they just didn't do it for me.

i sold V Plate and V Shimmer, kept V Room for some reason - it faded into my folder structure.

as i mentioned earlier, since switching DAWs recently, i have been going through all my plugins and libraries.

i threw V Room into my master template FX folder for completeness, tried it on some tracks.

fresh ears: i like it.

mind/ear connection changes over time and with experience i suppose.


----------



## Markus Kohlprath (May 30, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> I am going to through one in here that many do not even know exists. It's part of the Relab subscription: VSRS24 is an emulation of the TC6000...High quality reverb(s). https://relabdevelopment.com/product/vsr-s24/


When comparing different algo reverbs I own like fabfilter, breeze2, lexicon I usually end up with this one. Unfortunately pretty cpu hungry for my old rig so I use just 1 instance with sends but it sounds simply best to my ears. B2 comes close and has been my got to before but it’s even more hungry with the good sounding presets so vsrs24 is the winner for me in the moment especially after their upgrade some month ago which made browsing for presets much more enjoyable.


----------



## bvaughn0402 (May 30, 2019)

It seems like there is a lot of people that lean toward actual reverb plugins. Even in that famous Spitfire "Reverb shootout", they were comparing a lot of reverbs mentioned here.

And I do as well, mostly defaulting to TCC plugin, or maybe Spaces II.

But every now and then, you'll see someone mention something more elaborate ... like MIR PRO.

Why do you think more people don't use those types? Because of the expense? Or the fact you have to load them on all tracks of use?

I've been really exploring with interest things like Eareverb 2, or MIR PRO. But for every 1 thread here about them, it seems there are 10x that for plugins by Fabfilter, TCC, Spaces, etc.


----------



## THW (Nov 27, 2020)

JohnG said:


> A quibbler might argue that are any number of "John Williams sounds" but I hope I know what you mean.
> 
> You have a heck of a lot of moving parts there, friend. When I listen to JW's scores (the "big" ones) I feel that I'm sitting in a fairly spacey concert hall. Unless you are producing stems for a dub stage,* adding different reverbs for each section is a lot of work for marginal benefit.
> 
> ...


 L
I know this is an old post, but your comment makes me realize Im making my reverb setup far more complicated than I need to. I’m currently playing with presets in spaces 2 and trying to find the one that’ll help me glue the great libraries I picked up this Black Friday (abbey road and bbcso core) with some cinesamples instruments I like. These already sound so good, so I’m concerned and being cautious that my untrained production ears are butchering the samples (for example Reynolds hall preset sounds very wet), so I’m looking for a preset that’ll work without losing what I like about these libraries.


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## alchemist (Nov 27, 2020)

Spaces 2 for instruments / sections, Seventh Heaven to glue it all together


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## Gerbil (Nov 27, 2020)

I seem to return to Lexicon's Random Hall regardless of whatever else I purchase.


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## JonS (Nov 27, 2020)

paulthomson said:


> This may or may not be useful!



Loved this video on verbs, Paul !! Great work !!


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## whinecellar (Nov 27, 2020)

I use a custom IR in Space Designer for early reflections on dry libraries, then either Acon Digital Verberate, 2C B2, or 7th Heaven Pro for overall tail.


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2020)

I use the factory reverbs what comes with cubase now, because they are so great sounding. Please have in mind that I can use all other effects like eq, compressor etc. in the same effect channal. ...


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## JonS (Nov 28, 2020)

constaneum said:


> There are sooooo many good reverbs out there but which would you likely use for orchestra?
> 
> 1) Altiverb
> 2) Valhalla Room
> ...


So many great verbs to choose from, and most of them will get it done just fine. I love the Exponential Audio reverbs R2, R4, PhoenixVerb & Nimbus, Lexicon Native Reverbs, LiquidSonics' Cinematic Rooms Pro & Seventh Heaven, UA's UAD-2 Lexicon 224 & 480L, Softube's TSAR-1, Eventide's Blackhole, FabFilter's Pro-R, EW Spaces, and Waves' IR-1, Abbey Road Reverbs, MM Reverb & H-Reverb. VSL's MIR Spatial Convolution Reverb sounds incredible too and if I was gonna spend the money I would get MIR over AltiVerb. Nobody needs so many verbs, as any of them will get it done. It is certainly nice to have at least one convolution and one algorithmic.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Nov 28, 2020)

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. I find reverb to be one of the most subjective effects, so to me, nothing conveys the sense of depth and space as well as Relab VSR-S24 does (although the UI isn't my cup of tea). For reference, here are some reverb's I own and have been using:

EA Phoenix-Nimbus: "plain sounding" is the best thing I can say about it.

Everything Liquidsonics except for Cinematic Rooms: to me, they just take too much space in the mix (except for Reverberate, of course).

Waves H-Verb: I hated early reflections, so everything else didn't matter to me.

United Plugins Hyperspace: very promising (considering the price); I especially value the distance adjustment - very useful for "FX" work. The ability to chose algorithm by dragging a point in the XY square is nice and easy. The UI doesn't look mature.

Relab Rev-A: Love it! Not sure about orchestral work.

I also should mention two Plugin-Alliance "gadgets" - dearVR Music and Schoeps mono upmix. Both are essentially early reflections generators (+ some filtering) aimed at positioning a source in space and can be used in tandem with other reverb's that allow for turning off an early reflections section.

EDIT: I'm not a composer but a sound engineer by trade.


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## Mrmonkey (Nov 28, 2020)

About 6 Bricasti m7.


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## InLight-Tone (Nov 28, 2020)

It looks like there are as many preferences as there are composers, matched by just as many reverbs...


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## THW (Nov 28, 2020)

alchemist said:


> Spaces 2 for instruments / sections, Seventh Heaven to glue it all together


I picked up seventh heaven this morning...this combo is working so well! and I didn't tweak anything...just left seventh heaven on Boston Hall B...like a thermos...it just knows what to do. I also appreciate how easy to understand and use the standard version is.


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## Ryan Fultz (Nov 28, 2020)

InLight-Tone said:


> It looks like there are as many preferences as there are composers, matched by just as many reverbs...



And tastes can change and opinions evolve, since my post last year I got Seventh Heaven and its what I use for 98% of what I do now. It blows me away every time I use it like the first time I put it on a track.


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## dremin (Dec 8, 2020)

LiquidSonics Reverberate 3


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