# Mobile setup: MacBook Pro 2020, or MacBook Pro 2012 + MacMini



## AndyP (Aug 16, 2020)

On the search for a new mobile solution there are 2 alternatives which I am currently checking:

*1.* MacBook Pro 2020, hexa- or octacore, 64 gb ram - price 3500 - 4000 €.

*2.* MacMini 2018 hexacore, 64 gb ram (self-upgraded) - price 1500 €. And, the MacMini still runs with Mojave.

Studio Setup:
iMac i9 - 72 gb ram (DAW, VEP Server)
2 MacPro 2012 - 12 core, 96 gb ram (VEP add ons)

*Variant 1* means, standalone solution, which can also be used as VEP add on or server in my larger setup and could replace one of my MacPros 2012 (I'll probably sell them both because I was supposed to get along with two Macs). My old MacBook Pro from 2013 would then no longer be needed. I can still upgrade the iMac from 72 to 128 gb for 290€ if needed.

*Variant 2* The MacBook Pro 2013 remains the master running Cubase and the VEP server, the MacMini is integrated as VEP add on and controlled remotely. The Mac Mini could then also be used as add on in the larger setup to replace a MacPro 2012.
The MacBook pro 2013 would suffice as a pure master DAW and VEP server with the quadcore and 16 gb ram.

The difference in price is significant, 2000-2500 € which I could invest in bigger and faster hard drives. And the MacMini is small, fits in the backpack that transports my MicroKEY and the mobile SSDs.

Version 2 is a little more cable tangle, but small enough to stay mobile. If I want to work in the car, train or plane, which rarely happens, the old MacBook would still do it (and travel is not an issue at the moment). But my MacBook is already 7 years old.

I work 80% of my time on the MacBook and only go to the big setup when I want to finalize there or need my bigger libraries and more workhorse power.

I still don't dare to work on the new MacBook because I'm afraid that it won't be as stable as my old one. I still have a newer MacBook (also only 16GB), and it had more thermal problems than my old one, even though it performs twice as well according to benchmarks. (benchmarks are often overrated).

I am grateful for any further suggestions.


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## Bassious (Aug 16, 2020)

I currently use both your options as i moved away from my older setup. The mini was first in 2019 with 64 gb of ram. Quite capable. portability is tempered by the need for a monitor and assorted gizmos.
The new macbook pro has turned out to be great and is all I need for most projects. I dont have large track counts in my projects, less than 100 normally. The thermal issues in the new ones are resolved. I got 64 gb of ram and the 8tb ssd which was an investment but it now has all my libraries and plugs. The i9 cpu seems to be quite capable. Main DAW is cubase and front end is UAD. This works well because when I leave the studio I use an Apollo twin and if I need more than the twin I have the 8 core satellite. Quite flexible and capable.
Drawbacks depending on your DAW become the need for an extra full size keyboard, power...adapters are still oddly sized and shaped. Lastly the new MB pro only has USB C inputs so everything pretty much needs an adapter. Having said that, it all travels in 2 small hand bags and sets up in 5 minutes. Im enjoying it a lot
Cheers


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## AndyP (Aug 16, 2020)

Bassious said:


> I currently use both your options as i moved away from my older setup. The mini was first in 2019 with 64 gb of ram. Quite capable. portability is tempered by the need for a monitor and assorted gizmos.
> The new macbook pro has turned out to be great and is all I need for most projects. I dont have large track counts in my projects, less than 100 normally. The thermal issues in the new ones are resolved. I got 64 gb of ram and the 8tb ssd which was an investment but it now has all my libraries and plugs. The i9 cpu seems to be quite capable. Main DAW is cubase and front end is UAD. This works well because when I leave the studio I use an Apollo twin and if I need more than the twin I have the 8 core satellite. Quite flexible and capable.
> Drawbacks depending on your DAW become the need for an extra full size keyboard, power...adapters are still oddly sized and shaped. Lastly the new MB pro only has USB C inputs so everything pretty much needs an adapter. Having said that, it all travels in 2 small hand bags and sets up in 5 minutes. Im enjoying it a lot
> Cheers


Thank you for your comments.

I also use Cubase.

USB-C multi-adapters are still there. I also have some more BT keyboards. Since I can operate the MacMini (all my Macs) remotely via the MacBook, an extra keyboard would not be necessary, a extra monitor either.. Only the Mac Mini would be added (and a new 2ch audio interface). Ethernet works for 2 devices without hub.

The new MacBook would definitely be more practical, but also more than twice as expensive. Power for the keyboard goes through the USB-C adapter, I already tried that on the other MacBook. I have not yet tested an additional audio interface but there should be enough power available (at least I think so).

Have you experienced problems with the power supply when using several external devices?


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## AndyP (Aug 16, 2020)

I'm starting a test tomorrow.
The iMac in the studio will be the slave, the old MacBook as a VEP server and DAW is in the living room and I connect both computers via Ethernet.

For this test I'll first use the MacBook without audio interface to see how the latencies are with VEP. I do not expect any miracles.
Afterwards I connect my old 2ch interface with which I will surely get much lower latencies. 

It will also be interesting to see how many plugins (VEP, spaces etc.) I can use on the MacBook until the CPU responds significantly. 

If this works well it will also work with a Mac Mini. 

I will test this for a while and then decide which variant I choose. The new MacBook with 8TB SSD (currently I have 6TB at libraries in use, whereas I use only 2 TB for my mobile setup) costs a lot more (but less external cables and devices). 2500€ for 8TB are typical for apple. A little more comfort and towing for 4-5k more has to be well considered. I think I am less and less willing to pay the apple pharmacy prices.


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## Bassious (Aug 18, 2020)

Interested to see how that comes out.
B


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## AndyP (Aug 18, 2020)

So, the test looks like this:

iMac as VEP server. MacBook is DAW. LAN connection established with 15m cable.

Without extra audiointerafce connected to the MacBook it is not usable. I immediately get crackles and distortion (I expected that).
With an additional audio interface on the MacBook it runs as usual on the big setup, and the audio quality is much better than with the MacBook audio output (this too was to be expected).

I started yesterday a VEP template with round about 60gb (no instances or tracks disabled yet). The iMac stands 15 meters away and it works perfectly (except that with such a high RAM usage the iMac - 72gb ram remote gets very slow and choppy to use). But it is a stress test, so it would look better in reality with instances and tracks in VEP disabled).

I increased the latency in Cubase from 256 to 512 because there were some dropouts. This is due to the old 2ch audio interface which is connected to the USB bus without any power supply.
With 512 it runs clean and is still playable.

While I was setting up the VEP instances, I kept connecting them back into Cubase and it worked fine. So far it looks like a reasonable solution, but I have to consider that a MacMini hexacore has less CPU power than the iMac with octacore.

In principle it is not different from the big setup, technically almost identical. So it is no surprise that this variant also works.

Today I will start with the Cubase template and continue testing. So far it looks very good.
In Cubase I will then activate a battery of effects and see when the performance of the MacBook drops.


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## Bassious (Aug 18, 2020)

Sounds good so far. Could you add some tech notes? What is interface? Cubase track count, plug manufacturer and instrument manufacturer loaded in the VEP instances?
Cheers


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## AndyP (Aug 18, 2020)

I have not yet started with the Cubase template. Building it will probably take 2-3 days depending on how much time I can spend on it now.
The interface is a simple UCA200 from Behringer. Nothing special, but it runs without any additional power supply and is sufficient for mobile purposes, especially since it is small.
I tried 2 2ch interfaces and stayed with the UCA. The other one has a few additional features like digital audio outputs and, lower latencies which are not needed here, especially since it only runs on extra power.

On the VEP Server the following plug-ins are active:

Kontakt 6 - CineBrass, Cinewinds, Cineperc, PS Con Moto Strings, PS Caspian and Angry Brass, Trailer Brass and Strings, Adventure Brass and Strings, Areia, Da Capo Strings, Century Brass Ensembles and Solo

Play 6 - HO Diamond Strings, brass, percussion)

VSL Synchron Player - Synchron-ized and BBO Woodwinds

VEP is perfect for the mobile version with 2 computers. Standalone too, but this way I have the alternative to use more than one computer mobile. If it'll save me a few dollars, euros, dublone...

The VEP instances are created according to instrument groups, i.e. Strings, Brass, etc.
Each VEP instance is saved separately, so that I can always create quickly a new template combination for different purposes. At the moment everything is designed for pure orchestra.

There are about 15 instances, all of them have been properly connected in the first test and worked without problems after fine-tuning the settings. The first initial test was with 2 instances and 16 Midi tracks each. Worked without problems and the old MacBook was still fine.

For testing, this is enough for now, everything else like more strings, more brass, pianos, choirs, hybrid, trailer, guitar, percussion libraries ... I only build in the final version after testing. 

I estimate there will be about 150 - 200 Cubase tracks in the template. I also estimate that I get with a combination MacBook 2013 - MacMini i7 a roughly comparable performance to a new MacBook Pro.


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## AndyP (Aug 20, 2020)

Test results today.

The iMac is open in the background via screen sharing. This consumes quite a lot of CPU.

Loaded 3 instances of VEP Pro, play 30 tracks with 3 instances of Spaces II in the DAW, and that's it.
Using it with the mouse becomes very slow and choppy.


But the problem is not VEPro or the number of instances.

Screensharing is the problem. That consumes to much CPU. When I stop it, it runs smoothly and I can load more instances. But then the server cannot be served anymore.

The old MacBook simply doesn't have the graphics power to handle screen sharing. 
Next I am testing other screensharing tools to see if they are less demanding than Apple's own.


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## AndyP (Aug 21, 2020)

For the remote control I used NoMachine now and now it runs smoothly.

With it I can easily create 6+ VEP instances, 50+ tracks incl. lots of controllers at the same time and 4 instances of Spaces II without the control or the audio stream breaking down.

I say now, the test with NoMachine as remote control for the second computer is a complete success in this setup. I have used NoMachine in large setuo before, but didn't have it on the MacBook.

For me it works like this for now.

MacBook Pro 2013, 16 gb ram , DAW
iMAc i9, 72 gb, RAM VEP Server
Remote Control for screen sharing - NoMachine
UCA200 Audio Interface, latency setting in Cubase 384, 16 ms


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## Bassious (Aug 22, 2020)

Glad to hear the results. Sounds like a usable setup. What is nomachine? Not familiar with that.


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## AndyP (Aug 22, 2020)

Bassious said:


> Glad to hear the results. Sounds like a usable setup. What is nomachine? Not familiar with that.



A tool for remote desktop control.
Works great, very low resource consumption, fast. I can highly recommend it, and above all free of charge.









NoMachine - Free Remote Desktop For Everybody







www.nomachine.com


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## gsilbers (Aug 22, 2020)

AndyP said:


> On the search for a new mobile solution there are 2 alternatives which I am currently checking:
> 
> *1.* MacBook Pro 2020, hexa- or octacore, 64 gb ram - price 3500 - 4000 €.
> 
> ...



i just sold my new macbook pro 16 inch w 64gb ram. the heat and fan was just unbearable. it would ramp up for just googling or minor stuff. And seems its an old problem, no wonder apple is going away from intel. my 2012 macbook can load more without heat or fan issues. the new one of course could load more stuff in logic but cant be dealing with small session or normal work and the fans be ramping up so bad. and none of the worlarounds really work. its just a bad cpu design that overheats easily. 

i got the mac mini instead and im pretty happy. very quiet. powerfull. and can use my monitor. 

i also wqanted a portable soluton but for now im just waiting for th enew arm macbooks. if they can load about the same as a Mac mini which is i7 and have 32-64ram then im sold. 
the comparisons between ipad pro and macbook where impressively close, so i have faith those new macs will be good. Big Sur on the other hand :/
but one problme at a time.


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