# Adachi: Important update in OP



## Sarah Mancuso

*Update January 2023: If you are looking into buying Adagio/Agitato/Anthology due to Adachi, I strongly suggest you reconsider and look elsewhere for your orchestral strings needs. My own interactions with 8Dio and what I have been told about them by others has led me to the realization that they are a completely amoral company, and I regret having ever purchased any of their products or given them free sales by releasing my work here. If you don't believe me, **listen to Cory Pelizzari**, who was threatened by them for simply posting a review they didn't like.*

Original post is below:


Spoiler: Anyway, here's Wonderwall



*Info on latest update:* https://www.vi-control.net/communit...pdate-and-more-on-page-12.116094/post-4955044

Last year I picked up Adagio Legacy via the now-popular $8 crossgrade from Anthology. While I could understand why it had been retired, I was awed by its wealth of beautiful content. So much so that I was inspired to learn KSP scripting and build a completely new legato script to house its samples. The result of that work is Adachi, a set of custom legato patches for these very underrated strings, rebuilt and re-scripted from the ground up.

*Adachi feature overview:*

Switch to any legato or sustain type at any time in a musical phrase: no more patch juggling
Set up your own articulation switching via keyswitches, velocity, and/or speed
Onscreen descriptions of each legato type, to help navigate them all
Adagio and Agitato recordings can be mixed and matched freely for even more variety
Individually retimed legato samples for better timing consistency
Uses more length from each legato sample, for buttery smooth transitions
Custom manually-configured crossfades for every possible combination of legato and sustain (and there are hundreds of combinations!)
Automatic delay for faster legato types, to minimize “MIDI sliding” required
More dynamic layers used than the original legato patches, where possible
Smooth filtering for faux dynamics
Start musical phrases with arcs, not just basic sustains
No need to overlap notes for legato, letting their edges touch is enough
See below for downloads and audio demos.

*Using Adachi:*
Adachi is my attempt to enhance Adagio Legacy's workflow and squeeze more life out of its great recordings. Adachi is focused on legato only, meant to be used alongside a full set of articulations from Anthology or Adagio Legacy.

In Adachi, blue keyswitches change legato types, red keyswitches change sustain types, and purple keyswitches are mapped to change both at the same time. You can map multiple articulations to the same keyswitch, using the velocity and speed settings. I’ve provided several of these pre-made “articulation stacks” for many of the instruments. All of this is fully customizable in the UI.

*Features:*
Adachi utilizes recordings from both Adagio Legacy and the Agitato bundle, as they were recorded in the same space with the same number of players.

I’ve set it up to allow switching to any legato or sustain type at any point in a musical phrase. It’s also fully customizable so that you can do this via keyswitches, velocity, speed, or any combination of those methods.The ensemble violins are the biggest section here, with 13 different types of legato and countless types of sustains, all accessible from one patch. The ensemble violas and ensemble cellos are nearly as hefty. This ability to freely combine material allows for an extreme and possibly unprecedented level of control in shaping musical phrases.

I’ve manually set up custom legato crossfades for every possible combination of legato type and sustain type (of which there are hundreds of possible combinations). In some cases, the transitions in Adachi should sound better than their equivalents in Anthology or Adagio Legacy.

Beyond that, I’ve painstakingly retimed many of the legato transition samples, one at a time, so that they play more consistently from one note to the next. I’ve given particular focus to many of the round-robin transition types, to make their repetitions more reliable and agile. I’ve also corrected some instances of inconsistent volume between different note transitions.

I’ve used three dynamic layers for basic sustains wherever possible, instead of the 2 used in the original patches. Vibrato blending is implemented for the basic Sustain type, and artificial dynamics filtering has been implemented to further shape the various prerecorded arcs.

Most legatos in Adachi are timed to around 240ms of delay, which allows for a good amount of the transition sample to play through. Shorter legato types like Fast Feathered are automatically delayed via scripting to line up with the others. This should limit the amount of tiny MIDI adjustments that are required for timing. Portamentos and a few longer legato types (ET and Dolce in the ensemble violins) may still need adjustment in some cases, this is a compromise to keep a delay length that’s still reasonably playable and responsive.

As there are many different legato types available in Adachi, I’ve also added onscreen descriptions of each legato type, sourced from the Adagio manuals and from my own observations. These will hopefully help to convey the differences between them at a glance.

*Disclaimers:*
Adachi is a work in progress. A few of the legato types and some of the sustain arcs have not yet been ported over to Adachi. A few instruments have not been ported over at all (solo violin, solo viola, and sordino basses). In addition, a few of the instruments use an older dynamics-filtering setup that IMO doesn’t sound as convincing, though I haven’t had any issues mixing and matching the newer and older types in the same music.

You may encounter some minor issues that haven’t yet been resolved. There is a known bug with the keyswitch editing GUI, so if you’ve made changes and they don’t seem to have applied yet, clicking the Sort button should get things working as expected again.

Owning both Adagio Legacy (Adagio 1.6) and the Agitato bundle is recommended for use of Adachi. (If you don't own Agitato, you can use Adachi with Adagio and Anthology instead, but some articulations will not play.) If you're having trouble getting Adachi to load, this post by djDarkX shows how to use symlinks to get Kontakt to consistently find your samples for Adachi every time.

As this is a hobby project that I do on the side when I’m not busy with other obligations, I can’t promise any support on it, and I can’t offer any timeline for updates.

Please do not bother 8Dio support about any problems you run into with Adachi. This isn't their responsibility (of course). This is a fan project based on a discontinued product.

*Downloads and audio demos:*
Here are some audio demos I've written using Adachi:
Clip 1: Full ensembles
Clip 2: Full ensembles with loures and solo bass
Clip 3: Early alpha test with ensemble violins
Clip 4: Con Sord ensembles
Clip 5: Full ensembles with round-robin legato

Download of the current instrument versions:
(Download)

*Adachi requires Kontakt 6.6, and requires Adagio 1.6 ("Adagio Legacy") and the Agitato bundle for full functionality.*

I genuinely think these are still some of the best strings on the market. If you already own Adagio but haven't used it lately, maybe this will inspire you to give it another chance. Adagio has become one of my favorite libraries while working on Adachi, and maybe it will become one of yours, too!

If you'd like to donate to support this project, you can do so via this link. Thank you!


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## doctoremmet

I have had the pleasure of being able to try these and this is an incredibly well crafted set of samples that must have taken ages to get to this high quality level.

Thanks for sharing this with the rest of us mere mortals Sarah! 

❤️


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## djDarkX

I've gotten the Violin Ensemble patch and honestly, it's amazing. 8Dio's samples with these patches is just...glorious and you have SO much control. Highly recommend if you own the products and want some soaring, beautiful string passages.


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## el-bo

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Last year I picked up Adagio Legacy...



When you mentioned the idea of trying to sort through all of this, back whenever it was, I didn't imagine this is what you meant. But you went 'all-in'. 

Mind blown...and I've not even heard it yet.

Guessing Agitato will see an upsurge in sales 

Thanks for this


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## Jeremy Morgan

Aw damn, now I have to think about getting Agitato. 8dio should give you a free soundpaint bundle


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## jbuhler

Thank you for sharing this, Sarah! This is really great. I’ve had an opportunity to play with these as they have been going through the last stages of development, and they are fabulous. So many legatos and sustains to choose from! Adachi is now the first library I reach for when writing legato string lines.

Adachi is functional and quite nice with only Adagio legacy (I first tried it this way), but the additional content from Agitato is definitely worth it, especially if you can add it at 55% or 65% off.


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## homie

Very nice Sarah.

I already have Anthology, Adagietto and Agitato Sordino. Now i need the $8 crossgrade to the old Adagio Legacy and all three Agitato Grandiose libs? Do you think just getting Agitato Grandiose Violins instead of all three Agitato Grandiose would work too? Or do the Grandiose Violas and Cellos add substantial value? Just getting the Grandiose Violins would be cheaper


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## elliebean

Jeremy Morgan said:


> Aw damn, now I have to think about getting Agitato. 8dio should give you a free soundpaint bundle


More like they should put her in charge.


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## Sarah Mancuso

homie said:


> Very nice Sarah.
> 
> I already have Anthology, Adagietto and Agitato Sordino. Now i need the $8 crossgrade to the old Adagio Legacy and all three Agitato Grandiose libs? Do you think just getting Agitato Grandiose Violins instead of all three Agitato Grandiose would work too? Or do the Grandiose Violas and Cellos add substantial value? Just getting the Grandiose Violins would be cheaper


I think it's worth having all of the Agitato material, personally. In addition to Grandiose and Sordino, Adachi also makes use of Agitato Arpeggio for its "Fast Feathered" transitions, which are great for more agile parts (or just as an additional option to shape phrases with).


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## Kent

So proud of you bud! This is some seriously next-level work.


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## TrojakEW

Can't thank you enough. Those patches are fantastic. Really nice work.


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## synergy543

Thanks for these. Just curious about the origin of the name. Do you know Adachi Bijitsukan? Its one of the most beautiful places I've been to but its in Matsue (so other side of Japan from Tokyo) and not many people get to visit there. Its a lovely place (the video isn't the best representation).


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## Sarah Mancuso

synergy543 said:


> Thanks for these. Just curious about the origin of the name. Do you know Adachi Bijitsukan? Its one of the most beautiful places I've been to but its in Matsue (so other side of Japan from Tokyo) and not many people get to visit there. Its a lovely place.



That looks like a beautiful spot!

There's no impressive story behind the name. I named it Adachi after having watched _Adachi to Shimamura_ early this year and thinking I ought to keep up the Adagio tradition and go with an "A" name for it.


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## synergy543

Ah! I see. Adachi bijitsukan is a great place to visit if you ever go to Japan. Quite a unique experience you can add to your bucket list. I'm not a big anime fan, but of the ones I've seen, they do convey quite a lot of the Japanese culture (focus on positivity, appreciation and self-discipline) that the rest of the world could benefit from now. And again, thanks for sharing these. That's the spirit.


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## Sarah Mancuso

BTW, I highly recommend 2CAudio Precedence for placing Adagio's center-panned sections in situ. I used it in the demo clips posted above, and it's part of my standard setup when using Adachi. It manages to preserve the open and airy feel of the original recordings without boxing them in.


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## Vlzmusic

Sounds great, but I can't wrap my head around what's needed - found the Agitato bundle, but what is the other one? One has to buy the Anthology first, then crossgrade, or is there any other product called Adagio Legacy?


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## Sarah Mancuso

Vlzmusic said:


> Sounds great, but I can't wrap my head around what's needed - found the Agitato bundle, but what is the other one? One has to buy the Anthology first, then crossgrade, or is there any other product called Adagio Legacy?


"Adagio Legacy" is the original Adagio product that Anthology is primarily based on. It has a lot more content than Anthology does, which Adachi takes advantage of. It's no longer officially sold or supported, but as an Anthology owner you can use 8Dio's support chat to get it by paying an $8 crossgrade fee.


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## Vlzmusic

Sarah Mancuso said:


> "Adagio Legacy" is the original Adagio product that Anthology is primarily based on. It has a lot more content than Anthology does, which Adachi takes advantage of. It's no longer officially sold or supported, but as an Anthology owner you can use 8Dio's support chat to get it by paying an $8 crossgrade fee.


Thanks! Your work is awesome, and the demos sound better than most of the official new products heading to release


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## synergy543

I don't have Agitato but I successfully opened the Solo Bass and its very nice!

How much will Agitato add? Right now, it seems a bit expensive ($248)


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## Sarah Mancuso

synergy543 said:


> I don't have Agitato but I successfully opened the Solo Bass and its very nice!
> 
> How much will Agitato add? Right now, it seems a bit expensive ($248)


You can follow the instructions in this video to get Kontakt to load it successfully with only the Adagio and Anthology content, and if you pick up Agitato in the future you can go back to the unmodified Adachi patches.

(It should go without saying that without Agitato, some articulations in Adachi will not play.)

Note that Adachi's ensemble violins patch has a lot of extra sustain types that aren't mapped to any keys by default (because there are just so many!), but can be set up from the keyswitch builder UI. So some of the Agitato-exclusive material is hiding in there.


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## Pixelpoet1985

Holy #*?X%& ... I haven't tried it, because I don't have Kontakt 6 (yet). But thank you very much for offering it for free. Always loved the different arc legatos and really wished for something like this in 8Dio's Century series.


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## Sarah Mancuso

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Holy #*?X%& ... I haven't tried it, because I don't have Kontakt 6 (yet). But thank you very much for offering it for free. Always loved the different arc legatos and really wished for something like this in 8Dio's Century series.


Sorry about the Kontakt 6 requirement! The main reason for it is that I relied heavily on Creator Tools. In particular, it was a godsend when retiming all the legato samples, using Lua scripts to transfer start times from one mic position to the others. This simply would have been an impossible task otherwise.

Though there are some other K6 features I'd be interested in implementing here but haven't gotten to...


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## Vlzmusic

synergy543 said:


> I don't have Agitato but I successfully opened the Solo Bass and its very nice!
> 
> How much will Agitato add? Right now, it seems a bit expensive ($248)


Use the Coupon 10DIO to get half price off, it's the sale now.


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## clisma

Just to make sure I wrapped my head around this properly: Adagio Legacy is no longer for sale, even to owners of Agitato and Adagietto, or can I contact 8dio support? Their store is a high-level "confusion affair" for my short-lived attention span. 

You, Sarah, made me rediscover these instruments that are just lovely (somewhere between LASS' detail and CSS' romantic vibrato style. And it's the only String library I have with legato con sordino. Thank you for your hard, patient work on this and for sharing it with the community!


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## Sarah Mancuso

clisma said:


> Just to make sure I wrapped my head around this properly: Adagio Legacy is no longer for sale, even to owners of Agitato and Adagietto, or can I contact 8dio support? Their store is a high-level "confusion affair" for my short-lived attention span.
> 
> You, Sarah, made me rediscover these instruments that are just lovely (somewhere between LASS' detail and CSS' romantic vibrato style. And it's the only String library I have with legato con sordino. Thank you for your hard, patient work on this and for sharing it with the community!


If you own Anthology, you can contact support to get Adagio Legacy for $8. It’s not officially sold anymore but you can still get it that way.


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## djDarkX

Correct, as Sarah said. The Adagio you get on the website is v2, or the Anthology versions, split into the separate sections. The ones needed for the library to work are the older versions, 1.x, which are no longer sold individually on the website.

When the little chat box for support opens up on a page from 8Dio, talk to support if you've already purchased Anthology and ask for the old Adagio stuff. They'll have you pay for ONE pack (most likely the Violins) for $8 and then add the rest to your account. That's how they did it with me and honestly, I'm glad. They really are something special.


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## clisma

Thanks to both! I'll have a chat with support. Looks like I might need Anthology to qualify.


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## Ian Dorsch

You are a superhero, this is incredible work.


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## muziksculp

@Sarah Mancuso ,

THANKS  Very generous of you to do this.

Do I just add your custom Nki's to these libraries ? 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## devonmyles

I have both Anthology and the Agitato libraries. So to use custom Adachi legato patches, I need the legacy Adagio content...is that correct ?
And if so, is there any way of still getting hold the legacy content?
*
EDIT:*
Okay, I have just noticed what Sarah posted above - I will contact support and enquire if the $8 deal is still available.


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## Sarah Mancuso

devonmyles said:


> I have both Anthology and the Agitato libraries. So to use custom Adachi legato patches, I need the legacy Adagio content...is that correct ?
> And if so, is there any way of still getting hold the legacy content?


Yes, that's correct. If you ask 8Dio's online support chat they'll give it to you via an $8 crossgrade from Anthology.



muziksculp said:


> @Sarah Mancuso ,
> 
> THANKS  Very generous of you to do this.
> 
> Do I just add your custom Nki's to these libraries ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


I'd just make an Adachi folder, point Kontakt to where your Adagio and Agitato samples are stored, and then resave the Adachi NKIs so it'll remember where to look.


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## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Yes, that's correct. If you ask 8Dio's online support chat they'll give it to you via an $8 crossgrade from Anthology.
> 
> 
> I'd just make an Adachi folder, point Kontakt to where your Adagio and Agitato samples are stored, and then resave the Adachi NKIs so it'll remember where to look.


THANKS


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## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> @Sarah Mancuso ,
> 
> THANKS  Very generous of you to do this.
> 
> Do I just add your custom Nki's to these libraries ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Point the nkis at the various sample folders when you load them. I then build new versions by saving the samples with the patches. I end up using more SSD space because the samples are duplicated, but it's easier to move things around that way and ensure I have all the samples Adachi needs.


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## devonmyles

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Yes, that's correct. If you ask 8Dio's online support chat they'll give it to you via an $8 crossgrade from Anthology.
> 
> 
> I'd just make an Adachi folder, point Kontakt to where your Adagio and Agitato samples are stored, and then resave the Adachi NKIs so it'll remember where to look.


 Thank you, I will contact them. 
And another big thank you for the Adachi legato patches. After so much hard work, that is very generous of you.


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## mgaewsj

apologies if I ask the obvious but after reading hundreds of posts (I am serious ) I have not yet understood if Agitato Sordinos are 100% included in Anthology that I got as a freebie


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## Sarah Mancuso

mgaewsj said:


> apologies if I ask the obvious but after reading hundreds of posts (I am serious ) I have not yet understood if Agitato Sordinos are 100% included in Anthology that I got as a freebie


I think at least most of the Agitato Sordino content is in Anthology, or possibly all of it.


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## mgaewsj

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I think at least most of the Agitato Sordino content is in Anthology, or possibly all of it.


thnx!


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## CT

This is an exceptional revival of material that deserved to be treated better in the first place. Thank you for doing it!


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## Zanshin

The demos are beautiful! Fantastic work 

I was thinking of picking up century brass at the last moment here and now this to consider too. I told myself I didn’t need another string library (but if I picked up the two required bundles for this I’d end up with three more string libraries not to mention your Adachi haha).


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## djrustycans

Wow, thanks so much for this. Occasionally, I dig out the original Adagio and am amazed by the quality but it is such a pig to use. Absolutely looking forward to seeing what can be done with your hard work on Adachi.


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## lettucehat

I remember you writing about this a while back, and I've been looking forward to it ever since. But I had no idea it would be _this_ extensive and polished - just incredible, and I've only tried out the violins. This really deserves something special from 8dio. It brings Adagio/Agitato strings' playability and usability much closer to the newer entrants in the uber romantic strings category. And I thought Anthology brought things together pretty well to begin with!


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## Zanshin

Sarah Mancuso said:


> BTW, I highly recommend 2CAudio Precedence for placing Adagio's center-panned sections in situ. I used it in the demo clips posted above, and it's part of my standard setup when using Adachi. It manages to preserve the open and airy feel of the original recordings without boxing them in.


What's your setup like in Precedence? Like are you adding 'distance' in addition to the panning?


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## Sarah Mancuso

Thanks everyone for the kind words!



lettucehat said:


> I remember you writing about this a while back, and I've been looking forward to it ever since. But I had no idea it would be _this_ extensive and polished - just incredible, and I've only tried out the violins. This really deserves something special from 8dio. It brings Adagio/Agitato strings' playability and usability much closer to the newer entrants in the uber romantic strings category. And I thought Anthology brought things together pretty well to begin with!


It's definitely saved me from a lot of GAS purchase impulses in the romantic strings category this year...



Zanshin said:


> What's your setup like in Precedence? Like are you adding 'distance' in addition to the panning?


In the Precedence presets I have saved, I've set distance to 35 and just adjusted the panning. I originally set these up for Century Strings, so there might be better possible settings for Adagio, but they seem to work well enough that I haven't needed to mess with them more.


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## Futchibon

I just deleted the Legacy Adagio during the last sale as I was running out of SSD space! Thanks very much Sarah, can't wait to try it


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## Troels Folmann

Thank you Sarah for this tremendous effort. You are breathing new life into these magical strings. At one point Colin and I did the math and it turned out we had over 2 months of consecutive recording time for Adagio and Anthology combined. I am excited to revisit them one day too - cause libraries don't always just get better and better. On rare occasions, we strike gold and I think that is what you discovered and polished so elegantly. Thank you!


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## muziksculp

Troels Folmann said:


> I am excited to revisit them one day too -


Hi Troels,

What could this mean ? Maybe a new generation of these older Classic Strings Libraries ? or ... ? 

Looking forward to the release of SoundPaint.  

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Pier-V

The only reason I haven't downloaded the files is because I don't own the original library. However, just from listening to the demos alone I can easily say the work behind the scenes must have been INSANE. You just gave me a reason to start taking in serious consideration the idea of learning LUA and kontakt scripting. Honestly, I would have never guessed they were THAT powerful.
Well, a direct answer from the developers is the best possible reward, isn't it? Bravo!!


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## Sarah Mancuso

I've pushed a minor update to the ensemble violins patch, correcting some very inconsistent volumes with the Far mic on the basic looped sustain. (That's what I get for not implementing the mic blending controls until yesterday!) The other patches haven't been changed. Download URL is the same as before.


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## Sarah Mancuso

Troels Folmann said:


> Thank you Sarah for this tremendous effort. You are breathing new life into these magical strings. At one point Colin and I did the math and it turned out we had over 2 months of consecutive recording time for Adagio and Anthology combined. I am excited to revisit them one day too - cause libraries don't always just get better and better. On rare occasions, we strike gold and I think that is what you discovered and polished so elegantly. Thank you!


Thanks so much, I'm happy to hear that!


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Thank you so much for doing this. Was hoping 8Dio would update Adagio. I could stand the interface and moved on. Anthology fixed the interface but Adachi is really what i was hoping for. Now i can finally use Adagio. Thank you.


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## Trash Panda

Incredible job! I have a feeling there’s about to be a run on 8dio strings.


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## Ricgus3

Applied for my cross grade from anthology! Cannot wait to try this out! Thank you Sarah!


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## Wibben

Makes me want to get th libraries just to try out your script  No doubt great work.


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## aka70

This is amazing. I am having a lot of fun with this patches. Thanks a lot for all the effort @Sarah Mancuso. 

1 question, can I delete the Mix and Far mics position and leave only the close one??


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## Sarah Mancuso

aka70 said:


> This is amazing. I am having a lot of fun with this patches. Thanks a lot for all the effort @Sarah Mancuso.
> 
> 1 question, can I delete the Mix and Far mics position and leave only the close one??


I’m not sure, Kontakt can be fiddly sometimes when loading instruments with missing samples. I haven’t tried that.

Glad you’re enjoying it!


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## aka70

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I’m not sure, Kontakt can be fiddly sometimes when loading instruments with missing samples. I haven’t tried that.
> 
> Glad you’re enjoying it!


I've tried but no luck for me, that's why I asked. Personally the close mix for me is enough, never liked the Far mix. Thanks anyway


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## EvilDragon

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Kontakt can be fiddly sometimes when loading instruments with missing samples


Since Kontakt 6.2, missing samples can just be skipped when loading, but references to them are not removed from the NKI (which used to be the case).

So, feel free to remove mic positions you don't want/need.


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## Sarah Mancuso

EvilDragon said:


> Since Kontakt 6.2, missing samples can just be skipped when loading, but references to them are not removed from the NKI (which used to be the case).
> 
> So, feel free to remove mic positions you don't want/need.


Really? Hmm... I've had issues with Kontakt getting stuck trying to find Agitato samples that aren't present, if some of the prerequisite libraries aren't installed. The only solution I could get to work was to manually remove the samples from the patches.

Could the issue be that Adachi isn't using a normal instrument folder structure, but is instead making Kontakt look in various places from different instruments' folders?

edit: If that is the case, the solution might be "just" to copy the existing samples into a single Samples folder where the Adachi patches will look for it by default...


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## Living Fossil

Troels Folmann said:


> You are breathing new life into these magical strings.


Hi Troels,

I guess the 8dio staff is quite busy right now because of the Soundpaint release, however, i wanted to ask when/if the online support will come back.
First, because of @Sarah Mancuso 's great effort i'd want to get the Adagio Legacy version, second, because i recently run into a bug in Majestic II which i can't solve.


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## EvilDragon

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Could the issue be that Adachi isn't using a normal instrument folder structure, but is instead making Kontakt look in various places from different instruments' folders?



That's quite likely, I'd say.



Sarah Mancuso said:


> If that is the case, the solution might be "just" to copy the existing samples into a single Samples folder where the Adachi patches will look for it by default...


...or make a symlink.


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## muziksculp

EvilDragon said:


> ...or make a symlink.


What's a 'Symlink' ?


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## Sarah Mancuso

EvilDragon said:


> ...or make a symlink.


Good call! Do you think a shortcut or alias would also do the trick, as a more user-friendly way of doing it? I understand how symlinks work, but shortcuts and aliases are easier to explain to users...


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## EvilDragon

Alias on Mac should work, shortcut probably not (I never tried but this is my assumption). On Windows there's only symlinks basically and I know shortcuts aren't followed.



muziksculp said:


> What's a 'Symlink' ?


Google knows


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## devonmyles

Living Fossil said:


> Hi Troels,
> 
> I guess the 8dio staff is quite busy right now because of the Soundpaint release, however, i wanted to ask when/if the online support will come back.
> First, because of @Sarah Mancuso 's great effort* i'd want to get the Adagio Legacy version, *


 I second that regarding the return of online support. I need that Adagio legacy as well..!!


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## Living Fossil

devonmyles said:


> I second that regarding the return of online support. I need that Adagio legacy as well..!!


Update: 
Received an answer to my request from yesterdary and also got helped with Adagio Legacy!


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## Ricgus3

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Last year I picked up Adagio Legacy via the now-popular $8 crossgrade from Anthology. While I could understand why it had been retired, I was awed by its wealth of beautiful content. So much so that I was inspired to learn KSP scripting and build a completely new legato script to house its samples. The result of that work is Adachi, a set of custom legato patches for these very underrated strings, rebuilt and re-scripted from the ground up.
> 
> *Adachi feature overview:*
> 
> Switch to any legato or sustain type at any time in a musical phrase: no more patch juggling
> Set up your own articulation switching via keyswitches, velocity, and/or speed
> Onscreen descriptions of each legato type, to help navigate them all
> Adagio and Agitato recordings can be mixed and matched freely for even more variety
> Individually retimed legato samples for better timing consistency
> Uses more length from each legato sample, for buttery smooth transitions
> Custom manually-configured crossfades for every possible combination of legato and sustain (and there are hundreds of combinations!)
> Automatic delay for faster legato types, to minimize “MIDI sliding” required
> More dynamic layers used than the original legato patches, where possible
> Smooth filtering for faux dynamics
> Start musical phrases with arcs, not just basic sustains
> No need to overlap notes for legato, letting their edges touch is enough
> See below for downloads and audio demos.
> 
> *Using Adachi:*
> Adachi is my attempt to enhance Adagio Legacy's workflow and squeeze more life out of its great recordings. Adachi is focused on legato only, meant to be used alongside a full set of articulations from Anthology or Adagio Legacy.
> 
> In Adachi, blue keyswitches change legato types, red keyswitches change sustain types, and purple keyswitches are mapped to change both at the same time. You can map multiple articulations to the same keyswitch, using the velocity and speed settings. I’ve provided several of these pre-made “articulation stacks” for many of the instruments. All of this is fully customizable in the UI.
> 
> *Features:*
> Adachi utilizes recordings from both Adagio Legacy and the Agitato bundle, as they were recorded in the same space with the same number of players.
> 
> I’ve set it up to allow switching to any legato or sustain type at any point in a musical phrase. It’s also fully customizable so that you can do this via keyswitches, velocity, speed, or any combination of those methods.The ensemble violins are the biggest section here, with 13 different types of legato and countless types of sustains, all accessible from one patch. The ensemble violas and ensemble cellos are nearly as hefty. This ability to freely combine material allows for an extreme and possibly unprecedented level of control in shaping musical phrases.
> 
> I’ve manually set up custom legato crossfades for every possible combination of legato type and sustain type (of which there are hundreds of possible combinations). In some cases, the transitions in Adachi should sound better than their equivalents in Anthology or Adagio Legacy.
> 
> Beyond that, I’ve painstakingly retimed many of the legato transition samples, one at a time, so that they play more consistently from one note to the next. I’ve given particular focus to many of the round-robin transition types, to make their repetitions more reliable and agile. I’ve also corrected some instances of inconsistent volume between different note transitions.
> 
> I’ve used three dynamic layers for basic sustains wherever possible, instead of the 2 used in the original patches. Vibrato blending is implemented for the basic Sustain type, and artificial dynamics filtering has been implemented to further shape the various prerecorded arcs.
> 
> Most legatos in Adachi are timed to around 240ms of delay, which allows for a good amount of the transition sample to play through. Shorter legato types like Fast Feathered are automatically delayed via scripting to line up with the others. This should limit the amount of tiny MIDI adjustments that are required for timing. Portamentos and a few longer legato types (ET and Dolce in the ensemble violins) may still need adjustment in some cases, this is a compromise to keep a delay length that’s still reasonably playable and responsive.
> 
> As there are many different legato types available in Adachi, I’ve also added onscreen descriptions of each legato type, sourced from the Adagio manuals and from my own observations. These will hopefully help to convey the differences between them at a glance.
> 
> *Disclaimers:*
> Adachi is a work in progress. A few of the legato types and some of the sustain arcs have not yet been ported over to Adachi. A few instruments have not been ported over at all (solo violin, solo viola, and sordino basses). In addition, a few of the instruments use an older dynamics-filtering setup that IMO doesn’t sound as convincing, though I haven’t had any issues mixing and matching the newer and older types in the same music.
> 
> You may encounter some minor issues that haven’t yet been resolved. There is a known bug with the keyswitch editing GUI, so if you’ve made changes and they don’t seem to have applied yet, clicking the Sort button should get things working as expected again.
> 
> Owning both Adagio Legacy and the Agitato bundle is *required* for use of Adachi. If you instead own Adagio Legacy and Anthology, you can use Adachi with a reduced sample set by following the instructions in this video.
> Some articulations will not play if you do this, and it’s definitely not the full or intended experience.
> 
> As this is a hobby project that I do on the side when I’m not busy with other obligations, I can’t promise any support on it, and I can’t offer any timeline for updates.
> 
> Please do not bother 8Dio support about any problems you run into with Adachi. This isn't their responsibility (of course). This is a fan project based on a discontinued product.
> 
> *Downloads and audio demos:*
> Here are some audio demos I've written using Adachi:
> Clip 1: Full ensembles
> Clip 2: Full ensembles with loures and solo bass
> Clip 3: Early alpha test with ensemble violins
> Clip 4: Con Sord ensembles
> 
> Download of the current instrument versions:
> (Download)
> 
> *Adachi requires Kontakt 6.6, and requires Adagio 1.6 ("Adagio Legacy") and the Agitato bundle for full functionality.*
> 
> I genuinely think these are still some of the best strings on the market. If you already own Adagio but haven't used it lately, maybe this will inspire you to give it another chance. Adagio has become one of my favorite libraries while working on Adachi, and maybe it will become one of yours, too!


Hey Sarah! Thanks for your amazing contribution! I havbe problem with kontakt guide you posted the video. I dont own Agitato so I am trying to make it work with your guide. When getting into the "expert" tab and searching for "agitato", i try to follow ur step but i am doing something wrong. I assume what you are doing is marking all samples in the Mapping editor (?), then deleting them? I am on windows so i just held down mousebutton and drag all of them and hit "Delete". Then I saved it like you did in your video. But when I try to load it it still is searching for some Agitato samples? around 8300 samples are missing. 

I assume I am doing something wrong in the editor that I don't follow, when editing the mapping.


----------



## devonmyles

Living Fossil said:


> Update:
> Received an answer to my request from yesterdary and also got helped with Adagio Legacy!


 I have been given a code, but it doesn't work...


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Ricgus3 said:


> Hey Sarah! Thanks for your amazing contribution! I havbe problem with kontakt guide you posted the video. I dont own Agitato so I am trying to make it work with your guide. When getting into the "expert" tab and searching for "agitato", i try to follow ur step but i am doing something wrong. I assume what you are doing is marking all samples in the Mapping editor (?), then deleting them? I am on windows so i just held down mousebutton and drag all of them and hit "Delete". Then I saved it like you did in your video. But when I try to load it it still is searching for some Agitato samples? around 8300 samples are missing.
> 
> I assume I am doing something wrong in the editor that I don't follow, when editing the mapping.


The remaining samples should be findable in Anthology if you have that.


----------



## Ricgus3

Sarah Mancuso said:


> The remaining samples should be findable in Anthology if you have that.


Thanks!" That was the misstake i made. Trying to search only inside the 1.6 folder!


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## Craig Sharmat

Sarah, I have not had a chance to play with these yet but a big thank you for your generous contribution!
Demos sound great, I am sure I will enjoy these.


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## Living Fossil

devonmyles said:


> I have been given a code, but it doesn't work...


Did you put Adagio Violins in the cart?

p.s. sorry for derailing the thread Sarah, ...it won't happen again.


----------



## Living Fossil

Sarah Mancuso said:


> The remaining samples should be findable in Anthology if you have that.


Just to get it right from the start (allthough the download will take quite a while):

I've got Violins & Celli version 1.6 and the other stuff in version 2.0
Are there supposed to be Viole and Bassi vs. 1.6?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Living Fossil said:


> Just to get it right from the start (allthough the download will take quite a while):
> 
> I've got Violins & Celli version 1.6 and the other stuff in version 2.0
> Are there supposed to be Viole and Bassi vs. 1.6?


It should all be 1.6, or at least some 1.x version.

The 2.0 versions are just individual volumes of Anthology, and don't include the extra Adagio material that Adachi depends on.


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## devonmyles

Living Fossil said:


> Did you put Adagio Violins in the cart?
> 
> p.s. sorry for derailing the thread Sarah, ...it won't happen again.


 
Oddly enough, and for some strange reason, I did.


----------



## Living Fossil

Sarah Mancuso said:


> It should all be 1.6, or at least some 1.x version.
> 
> The 2.0 versions are just individual volumes of Anthology, and don't include the extra Adagio material that Adachi depends on.


Thanks, that's really helpful! I reached out again to the support.


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## Joseph JP

Wow!!! Thank you so much Sarah, You really brought new life to these samples. It doesn't feel like the same samples with the new programming. It sounds and reacts better in every way. It feels like I bought a new library and you gave it away for free. I don't know what to say. Thank you for your efforts towards this project, which you made with passion. Oh boy. I'm gonna Enjoy playing with these. Thanks again.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Joseph JP said:


> Wow!!! Thank you so much Sarah, You really brought new life to these samples. It doesn't feel like the same samples with the new programming. It sounds and reacts better in every way. It feels like I bought a new library and you gave it away for free. I don't know what to say. Thank you for your efforts towards this project, which you made with passion. Oh boy. I'm gonna Enjoy playing with these. Thanks again.


Glad you're enjoying it so much! I was also very surprised at how differently it felt (and sounded!) compared with Adagio or Anthology as things gradually took shape during development. And I did have a few friends telling me I should keep it to myself, haha.


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## elliebean

I'm glad you shared it with the world despite that. Personally, I'm not a big fan of secrecy and proprietary bullcrap, but you don't owe anyone anything either. You put an absurd amount of effort into this though and this level of quality deserves some kind of compensation and certainly if you had decided to keep it to yourself I don't think anyone could legitmitately object.


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## Joseph JP

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Glad you're enjoying it so much! I was also very surprised at how differently it felt (and sounded!) compared with Adagio or Anthology as things gradually took shape during development. And I did have a few friends telling me I should keep it to myself, haha.


Well I'm glad you didn't listen to them. Otherwise we wouldn't have gotten these gems to enjoy and play with. Plus you could have asked a premium for these, but you didn't. And you learnt KSP scripting/sample editing to top it off. And took time to make it a great product. All to make our lives a little easier and a joyful tool to compose with. All this deserves applause. So thank you for the decision to make this free.


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## Sarah Mancuso

I'm glad I shared it, too! I don't like not being able to talk about and show off things I've put this much work into, so keeping it a secret wasn't sitting right with me. I'm happy to see all the comments about it.

(I do have a bandcamp and a paypal if anyone is feeling _really really_ appreciative)


----------



## djDarkX

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I'm glad I shared it, too! I don't like not being able to talk about and show off things I've put this much work into, so keeping it a secret wasn't sitting right with me. I'm happy to see all the comments about it.
> 
> (I do have a bandcamp and a paypal if anyone is feeling _really really_ appreciative)


I already told her I'd be giving her a donation when I have the money to do so. It won't be much, but something as a way of saying thank you. I hope others do as well. Also glad she didn't keep this to herself. This improved the project I'm working on without having to save up for and buy a new library and instead use one I already own.


----------



## Futchibon

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I'm glad I shared it, too! I don't like not being able to talk about and show off things I've put this much work into, so keeping it a secret wasn't sitting right with me. I'm happy to see all the comments about it.
> 
> (I do have a bandcamp and a paypal if anyone is feeling _really really_ appreciative)


I was just going to ask if you had a 'buy me a coffee' link or similar so I could thank you for the amazing effort that has gone into this. Thanks again!


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## Sarah Mancuso

Futchibon said:


> I was just going to ask if you had a 'buy me a coffee' link or similar so I could thank you for the amazing effort that has gone into this. Thanks again!


Links are in signature. Thank you for your generous support!


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## Sarah Mancuso

Here's another Adachi demo track! I wrote this earlier in the year as a torture test for the round-robin legatos while I was in the process of retiming some of them. This is a piece of music I don't think I could have written with anything besides Adachi.


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## Troels Folmann

This is gorgeous Sarah! Is this only using Adachi?? 

There is a soft quality to the church we used. It is like a studio version of Air or something.


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## Sarah Mancuso

Troels Folmann said:


> This is gorgeous Sarah! Is this only using Adachi??
> 
> There is a soft quality to the church we used. It is like a studio version of Air or something.


Thank you! Yep, that's just using Adachi, with a little bit of Seventh Heaven reverb and some EQ. The Adagio recordings are indeed really beautiful.


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## Troels Folmann

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Thank you! Yep, that's just using Adachi, with a little bit of Seventh Heaven reverb and some EQ. The Adagio recordings are really beautiful.


It is so strange listening to ones own creation - and yet you could've nearly swayed me it was real! Are those quick back and forth the RR leg? Reminds me of Sakamoto. Adagio in Soundpaint ... You with me?


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## Sarah Mancuso

Troels Folmann said:


> It is so strange listening to ones own creation - and yet you could've nearly swayed me it was real! Are those quick back and forth the RR leg? Reminds me of Sakamoto. Adagio in Soundpaint ... You with me?


Yep! This is what the round robin legatos are capable of after I painstakingly retimed all the individual samples to get them to play in more consistent rhythm, which made it possible for them to handle faster parts as well as they can handle slower ones. It’s an enhancement that relies more on sheer perseverance than pure tech. Though there are also some tech enhancements here over how RRs are handled in Adagio.


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## muziksculp

Adagio and Agitato have a magical sound that Century Strings is missing.

Would love to see 8dio revisit these older classic libraries, and maybe offer fresh second generation versions of Adagio & Agitato Strings, maybe in SoundPaint format


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## BL

YES! Adagio in soundpaint. How about finally having repeated note transitions while playing legato patches like the newer string libraries.


muziksculp said:


> Adagio and Agitato have a magical sound that Century Strings is missing.
> 
> Would love to see 8dio revisit these older classic libraries, and maybe offer fresh second generation versions of Adagio & Agitato Strings, maybe in SoundPaint format


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## Henning

Troels Folmann said:


> Adagio in Soundpaint ... You with me?


Does this not seem like a partnership made in heaven ? Sarah is also a top beta tester. Just sayin...


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## Freespace2

Thank you for your great work and sharing.

I bought the Century String two days ago and I don't think I would have needed to buy it if the adachi came out a few days earlier. Of course, century strings are unique in terms of the number of players and sound, but the legato sound is very static and stiff compared to the adachi.

I can't even imagine how much effort it took you to complete this project. And I send my infinite gratitude and respect to you for sharing this amazing result with free of charge. I feel your work is better than everything else in 8dio. 8dio should seriously consider hiring you as a kontakt scripter and if it happen, I have no doubt that all of 8dio's products will be dramatically improved.


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## Pianist

Hi Sarah,
first of all thanks for sharing this with us. Your demos sound very nice indeed!
Just a question: do your patches/instruments use crossfading between different dynamic layers or are they just one dynamic? I do own Anthology as well as Adagio but do not have Agitato (yet) so I cannot try the patches fully myself (also not having so much time at the moment). And the sale is nearing the end...
Thank you.


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## parapentep70

Incredible work! I cannot believe it. It scores so high in usability / playabaility! I guess this can make my legacy Adagio library my favourite for strings. And the demos are also very good, regardless of the sound library used. **      Big *THANKS!*.


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## AndyP

Fantastic job! It proves among other things that it doesn't always have to be new samples, but that you can breathe new life into old samples with new scripting and combinations.
This proves again, good samples do not age. Scripts do.


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## devonmyles

Living Fossil said:


> Did you put Adagio Violins in the cart?
> 
> p.s. sorry for derailing the thread Sarah, ...it won't happen again.



All sorted and finally got there with an amended code...support at 8Dio were great and, all for $8.


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## GGaca

ech... now i'm thinking about buying Agitato bundle :/


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## Sarah Mancuso

Pianist said:


> Hi Sarah,
> first of all thanks for sharing this with us. Your demos sound very nice indeed!
> Just a question: do your patches/instruments use crossfading between different dynamic layers or are they just one dynamic? I do own Anthology as well as Adagio but do not have Agitato (yet) so I cannot try the patches fully myself (also not having so much time at the moment). And the sale is nearing the end...
> Thank you.


There are different sustain types you can pick between. The looped sustains use 3 or sometimes 2 dynamic layers, and the arc sustains are a single layer with built-in dynamic movement performed by the musicians.


----------



## chrisav

GGaca said:


> ech... now i'm thinking about buying Agitato bundle :/


Same! And I had managed to go through all of 8Dio’s anniversary sale without buying anything 😂


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Thanks for the kind comments, everyone!

I made a few bugfixes and updates throughout the day yesterday, here's a changelog:


> 10/25/21: Viola ens: Improved fast feathered crossfades on arc sustains
> 10/25/21: Cello ens: Improved some Village legato timings
> 10/25/21: Bass ens: Fixed buggy filtering on far mic
> 10/25/21: Transport start now resets round robin cycles.
> 10/25/21: Viola ens: Adjusted inconsistent mic levels on exp porta legato.



BTW, if you don't own the Agitato bundle, I recommend either copying or making aliases or shortcuts of the samples you _do_ have (from Adagio, Anthology, etc.) and putting them in a Samples folder next to the Adachi NKIs. This should get Kontakt to successfully locate the samples you have, so you can bypass only the ones that are missing. That way you won't need to modify the actual NKIs. (Thanks EvilDragon for this tip!) I'll update the OP to mention this as well.


----------



## Owen Smith

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Thanks for the kind comments, everyone!
> 
> I made a few bugfixes and updates throughout the day yesterday, here's a changelog:
> 
> 
> BTW, if you don't own the Agitato bundle, I recommend either copying or making aliases or shortcuts of the samples you _do_ have (from Adagio, Anthology, etc.) and putting them in a Samples folder next to the Adachi NKIs. This should get Kontakt to successfully locate the samples you have, so you can bypass only the ones that are missing. That way you won't need to modify the actual NKIs. (Thanks EvilDragon for this tip!) I'll update the OP to mention this as well.


First of all, thank you so much @Sarah Mancuso! I'm so excited to use Adachi! I was able to get my legacy adagio bundle and downloaded your files last night. I won't get to test them out for a few days, but I was wondering how much you think I would miss out on by not having all of the agitato libraries? I currently have agitato violins along with anthology and adagio and adagietto. I'm mostly interested in violins over the other sections, but I'm not sure if picking up the rest of the agitato libraries (or purchasing the bundle) would be necessary for fully utilizing the ensemble patches in Adachi? I know you mentioned being able to use Anthology instead but with limitations. Sorry for all the questions and thank you again so much for your time and generosity. Cheers!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Owen Smith said:


> First of all, thank you so much @Sarah Mancuso! I'm so excited to use Adachi! I was able to get my legacy adagio bundle and downloaded your files last night. I won't get to test them out for a few days, but I was wondering how much you think I would miss out on by not having all of the agitato libraries? I currently have agitato violins along with anthology and adagio and adagietto. I'm mostly interested in violins over the other sections, but I'm not sure if picking up the rest of the agitato libraries (or purchasing the bundle) would be necessary for fully utilizing the ensemble patches in Adachi? I know you mentioned being able to use Anthology instead but with limitations. Sorry for all the questions and thank you again so much for your time and generosity. Cheers!


If you have Agitato Violins, does that include having the Agitato Arpeggio Legato library? If not, that might be worth adding because of the nice "fast feathered" transitions for more agile parts. Beyond that, I'd suggest trying it yourself and see if you're satisfied with the selection -- between the Adagio, Anthology, and Agitato Violins material there should still be a lot that you can use.


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## mgaewsj

muziksculp said:


> What's a 'Symlink' ?


on a mac use this instructions:
https://www.logicprohelp.com/move-logics-additional-content-secondary-drive/
I had to do this for many libraries, 8dio included, whenever the instrument GUI doesn't load properly if samples are on an external drive.
You just a create one or multiple symlinks to the real Sample(s) folder(s)


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## Owen Smith

Sarah Mancuso said:


> If you have Agitato Violins, does that include having the Agitato Arpeggio Legato library? If not, that might be worth adding because of the nice "fast feathered" transitions for more agile parts. Beyond that, I'd suggest trying it yourself and see if you're satisfied with the selection -- between the Adagio, Anthology, and Agitato Violins material there should still be a lot that you can use.


I do not have the agitato arpeggio legato library so it might be worth it for me to pick that up. Thanks again for your time and generosity Sarah!


----------



## homie

@Sarah Mancuso 

I wonder how hard it would be to implement a custom GUI. If it's manageable/wanted i'd gladly offer to help with the design part.


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## Sarah Mancuso

homie said:


> @Sarah Mancuso
> 
> I wonder how hard it would be to implement a custom GUI. If it's manageable/wanted i'd gladly offer to help with the design part.


Thanks for the offer! I’ve had some ideas for a custom GUI for this, and may eventually do one.


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## Evans

Oof, and here I was holding budget for TSS and Pacific to give me a wider variety of strings sizes and artics. Now, I'm looking Anthology/Agitato and I suppose the Century Strings 2.0 gift.


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## EgM

Adagio/Agitato was already my favorite set of strings but these new patches are definitely awesome!

Thank you @Sarah Mancuso!


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## chrisr

Evans said:


> Oof, and here I was holding budget for TSS and Pacific to give me a wider variety of strings sizes and artics. Now, I'm looking Anthology and I suppose the Century Strings 2.0 gift.


It _did_ just did tip me over the edge - got Anthology (although have v1 Adagio Violas already) and Agitato Bundle (and the (beautiful!) Lyre to take my purchase to $249 after V8P discount) - which also adds on the Century Strings Bundle. - All for approx £180 uk. Absolutely Insane.

I've contacted support to try to crossgrade to the rest of the v1 Adagios, although I'll understand if they're too rushed off their feet in the next few days with everything that's going on there.

Sarah - I downloaded Adachi a few hours ago, opened it and played around for a minute or two with the softer dynamics which are covered by my single existing v1 Adagio - I really like what you've done. I _haven't _contributed anything _yet_, but certainly will do as soon as I've got everything set up and had a play / put it into my template. It's going to take me a while even just to download all the 8dio stuff before I can even start to think about getting into everything. I'm a little shocked that someone would take the time to put together something like Adachi - I think it's brilliant that you did, and also brilliant that Troels approves.

To think that all this isn't even the main story going on at 8dio this week. Bonkers.


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## Pier-V

Those are some of the most convincing round robin legatos I've ever heard in a strings vst so far! Do you think they would handle well a writing like this? (I was searching for the score transcription made by The Pochaccos but it is nowhere to be found on Youtube!! Anyway, I'm referring to the second violins part starting at around 0:42)



Edit: the composer is Yoko Kanno, from the anime Brain Powerd.


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## Sarah Mancuso

chrisr said:


> Sarah - I downloaded Adachi a few hours ago, opened it and played around for a minute or two with the softer dynamics which are covered by my single existing v1 Adagio - I really like what you've done. I _haven't _contributed anything _yet_, but certainly will do as soon as I've got everything set up and had a play / put it into my template. It's going to take me a while even just to download all the 8dio stuff before I can even start to think about getting into everything. I'm a little shocked that someone would take the time to put together something like Adachi - I think it's brilliant that you did, and also brilliant that Troels approves.


Thanks, glad you're enjoying it so far!

I did it for a few reasons. The sound of Adagio was love at first sight (love at first sound?), but I was extremely unsatisfied with the limitations and bugs of the legacy version, and the stripped-down Anthology version seemed to throw away so much of what made Adagio compelling to me in the first place. And I can never seem to listen to the "don't do that, it'll be a huge hassle and surely not worth all the trouble" self-preservation instinct when it comes to starting up ambitious projects like this. I think I just like tackling these kinds of challenges, to see if they can be done. What began as "I wonder if I can set something up to access different legato types from the same patch" turned into me trying to make it sound better and react more consistently than the originals, writing a note queue system to keep different legato types in time with one another, retiming countless samples, etc., none of which was part of the original plan, haha.



Pier-V said:


> Those are some of the most convincing round robin legatos I've ever heard in a strings vst so far! Do you think they would handle well a writing like this? (I was searching for the score transcription made by The Pochaccos but it is nowhere to be found on Youtube!! Anyway, I'm referring to the second violins part starting at around 0:42)



That's a beautiful piece. It's hard to say for sure, but I suspect they might be able to handle it nicely!


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## Rudianos

well I bought agitato thanks to this thread! you have a real talent for programming. thanks


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## Evans

It's pretty bonkers that roughly (EDIT) $256 could get you the

Anthology bundle;
Agitato bundle;
Century Strings 2.0 gift;
Adagio Legacy "downgrade" (EDIT: $8 after completing the first $248+ purchase); and
Adachi.
If this stays up until I'm off work then I think this is a go (not sure when the sale ends).


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## BL

Evans said:


> It's pretty bonkers that roughly $232 US right now could get you the
> 
> Anthology bundle;
> Agitato bundle;
> Century Strings 2.0;
> Adagio Legacy "downgrade"; and
> Adachi.
> If this stays up until I'm off work then I think this is a go (not sure when the sale ends).


I bought the complete Adagio libraries when they first came out… the violins were 399 alone…. Cellos were 399. Violas were 199 and the basses were 99 I think.

I feel that they lack repeated notes for playing melodies that require that rebowing transition. There are loures, but timing them isn’t easy for simple note repetitions. I do love the sound of them though, but always felt programming the midi was more of a chore in regards to getting them to sound right. I’m very thankful this has been revisited and can be a part of my template after all of these years. I do hope that they get the soundpaint treatment!


----------



## jbuhler

Owen Smith said:


> First of all, thank you so much @Sarah Mancuso! I'm so excited to use Adachi! I was able to get my legacy adagio bundle and downloaded your files last night. I won't get to test them out for a few days, but I was wondering how much you think I would miss out on by not having all of the agitato libraries? I currently have agitato violins along with anthology and adagio and adagietto. I'm mostly interested in violins over the other sections, but I'm not sure if picking up the rest of the agitato libraries (or purchasing the bundle) would be necessary for fully utilizing the ensemble patches in Adachi? I know you mentioned being able to use Anthology instead but with limitations. Sorry for all the questions and thank you again so much for your time and generosity. Cheers!


When Sarah first shared Adachi with me I only had Adagio/Anthology. Adagio-only Adachi is very capable but lacks the variety of the full set of sustains and arcs and especially the faster legatos.

I picked up Agitato the first sale after I started using Adachi. The sheer variety that comes from the combinations of legatos and sustains and arcs is what I find so appealing about Adachi, and that requires both libraries. But Anthology has a nice subset and it makes Adagio more usable as a regular library than Anthology (though the latter has some very nice bits on its own).



Evans said:


> It's pretty bonkers that roughly $232 US right now could get you the
> 
> Anthology bundle;
> Agitato bundle;
> Century Strings 2.0;
> Adagio Legacy "downgrade"; and
> Adachi.
> If this stays up until I'm off work then I think this is a go (not sure when the sale ends).


I’m not sure there’s a better deal for a string library than Anthology/Agitato on sale at 55/65% off and Adachi.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

I should probably get around to porting over the rest of the Agitato-specific arcs soon, huh...


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

jbuhler said:


> I’m not sure there’s a better deal for a string library than Anthology/Agitato on sale at 55/65% off and Adachi.


At one point earlier this year, it was possible to get Anthology, the Legacy crossgrade, and Agitato Grandiose and Agitato Arpeggio for just under $100 total.


----------



## chrisr

Evans said:


> It's pretty bonkers that roughly $232 US right now could get you the
> 
> Anthology bundle;
> Agitato bundle;
> Century Strings 2.0;
> Adagio Legacy "downgrade"; and
> Adachi.
> If this stays up until I'm off work then I think this is a go (not sure when the sale ends).


Actually to have Century as part of that you'll need to add another library to pass the $248 mark... I bought today (after just reading about Adachi this morning) - because (i think??) it's been speculated that the sale will end when soundpaint arrives, and the suggestion is that SP might be arriving tomorrow - wednesday (??)


----------



## Evans

chrisr said:


> Actually to have Century as part of that you'll need to add another library to pass the $248 mark... I bought today (after just reading about Adachi this morning) - because (i think??) it's been speculated that the sale will end when soundpaint arrives, and the suggestion is that SP might be arriving tomorrow - wednesday (??)


Ah, yes, true. I originally goofed up when I thought it was a 50% sale and did the math on that, but didn't change my post after realizing it was 55% (sans V8P) and you needed another small add to breach $248.


----------



## jbuhler

Sarah Mancuso said:


> At one point earlier this year, it was possible to get Anthology, the Legacy crossgrade, and Agitato Grandiose and Agitato Arpeggio for just under $100 total.


I already had Adagio so I couldn’t take full advantage of the deals but I did get the Agitato bundle and Requiem Pro as a freebie for under $90 in August.


----------



## Johnny

Exquisite work Sarah! You've extended another 20 years of use to the Legacy Adagio and Legacy Agitato Strings- well done!


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Thanks for the kind comments, everyone!
> 
> I made a few bugfixes and updates throughout the day yesterday, here's a changelog:
> 
> 
> BTW, if you don't own the Agitato bundle, I recommend either copying or making aliases or shortcuts of the samples you _do_ have (from Adagio, Anthology, etc.) and putting them in a Samples folder next to the Adachi NKIs. This should get Kontakt to successfully locate the samples you have, so you can bypass only the ones that are missing. That way you won't need to modify the actual NKIs. (Thanks EvilDragon for this tip!) I'll update the OP to mention this as well.


Hi Sarah, did you consider adding the marcato articulation from Adagio the short patch as a sustain option? Was wondering if it might be a good idea. Might be a good fit for the pointed legato i think it's called? But please don't add that buggy release that triggers way after the note stopped.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Hi Sarah, did you consider adding the marcato articulation from Adagio the short patch as a sustain option? Was wondering if it might be a good idea. Might be a good fit for the pointed legato i think it's called? But please don't add that buggy release that triggers way after the note stopped.


Adding some short attack types has been on my to-do list forever. Probably eventually. I already have code working for adding short overlays to other sustain types.

The releases shouldn't be an issue -- the timed sustains in Adachi already keep track of whether they've ended, for the purpose of determining when to do legato or when to start a new phrase.


----------



## Drjay

Before I spend unnecessarily money on the Agitato bundle one question: when browsing for the viola and cello samples in the new Adagio folders, Kontakt finds all samples which should be located in the Agitato Cello and viola lib. Does it mean the new Adagio lib contains all samples from the Agito libs, or do they have by chance the same name? The same holds true for the sordino samples. Its not working for the violins and the arpeggio Agitato samples. Does it mean I am fine getting the Agitato Arpeggio and Agitato Violins? Or are the viola, cello and bass patches of Adachi not using all Agitato samples.
Sounds confusing…


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Adding some short attack types has been on my to-do list forever. Probably eventually. I already have code working for adding short overlays to other sustain types.
> 
> The releases shouldn't be an issue -- the timed sustains in Adachi already keep track of whether they've ended, for the purpose of determining when to do legato or when to start a new phrase.


That's great. Didn't want to ask about overlays thinking how you spoiled us already.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Drjay said:


> Before I spend unnecessarily money on the Agitato bundle one question: when browsing for the viola and cello samples in the new Adagio folders, Kontakt finds all samples which should be located in the Agitato Cello lib. Does it mean the new Adagio lib contains all samples from the Agito libs, or do they have by chance the same name? The same holds true for the sordino samples. Its not working for the violins and the arpeggio Agitato samples. Does it mean I am fine getting the Agitato Arpeggio and Agitato Violins? Or are the viola, cello and bass patches of Adachi not using all Agitato samples.
> Sounds confusing…


I believe all of the Agitato Sordino samples exist in Adagio/Anthology, so you can skip those.

The Agitato Grandiose libraries feature some unique arc sustains. Kontakt isn't looking for them in some Adachi patches because I haven't yet implemented all of them, but I will probably get to them soon since this project has an audience now.

Getting this stuff into Adachi is a process of manually porting things over one piece at a time, hence the current state of incompleteness. There is already a lot there to use and make music with, though, which is why I've released it as it is.


----------



## Haakond

I bought Agitato a couple of years back, but stopped using them because of samples jumping around with the stereo image. 
Because of these new patches, I bought Adagio and I am happy to give this another go. The recordings themselves are really good, and the new patches seems to give them the treatment they deserve. 

Thank you!


----------



## Drjay

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I believe all of the Agitato Sordino samples exist in Adagio/Anthology, so you can skip those.
> 
> The Agitato Grandiose libraries feature some unique arc sustains. Kontakt isn't looking for them in some Adachi patches because I haven't yet implemented all of them, but I will probably get to them soon since this project has an audience now.
> 
> Getting this stuff into Adachi is a process of manually porting things over one piece at a time, hence the current state of incompleteness. There is already a lot there to use and make music with, though, which is why I've released it as it is.


Thanks a lot for the info and of course for Adachi itself.  
So it would make sense to get all Agitato libs except the sordinos.


----------



## djDarkX

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Hi Sarah, did you consider adding the marcato articulation from Adagio the short patch as a sustain option? Was wondering if it might be a good idea. Might be a good fit for the pointed legato i think it's called? But please don't add that buggy release that triggers way after the note stopped.


I just kinda layered in Adagio's maracto (with 2nd Violins activated to match the tone with Adachi) for violins on the starting notes of a passage on a new track and it worked quite well.


----------



## 8noise

This is AMAZING¡¡¡¡. Thank you very much ¡¡¡¡. THIS IS AMAZING.
My favourite string of all time, Adagio/agitato, comes to life again.

This is so Expressive .... I've something like a dozen top string libraries. No one is even near to the expressiveness it can be achieved with Adachi.

There are no words to describe what I am feeling playing my keyboard. I´ll be so pleased to make you a donation.... have you considered it?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Haakond said:


> I bought Agitato a couple of years back, but stopped using them because of samples jumping around with the stereo image.
> Because of these new patches, I bought Adagio and I am happy to give this another go. The recordings themselves are really good, and the new patches seems to give them the treatment they deserve.
> 
> Thank you!


There are still some stereo image inconsistencies in certain patches. I'm not sure if it's really solvable without heavily processing the samples.


8noise said:


> This is AMAZING¡¡¡¡. Thank you very much ¡¡¡¡. THIS IS AMAZING.
> My favourite string of all time, Adagio/agitato, comes to life again.
> 
> This is so Expressive .... I've something like a dozen top string libraries. No one is even near to the expressiveness it can be achieved with Adachi.
> 
> There are no words to describe what I am feeling playing my keyboard. I´ll be so pleased to make you a donation.... have you considered it?


Thank you! There is a donation link in my signature. I’m happy to hear you’re enjoying Adachi so much.


----------



## 8noise

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Thank you! There is a donation link in my signature. I’m happy to hear you’re enjoying Adachi so much.


Done¡¡¡. Thanks for such a wonderful job¡¡¡


----------



## Vlzmusic

All in all, Sarah, your presentation is more convincing than a new product currently discussed in the other thread.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

8noise said:


> This is AMAZING¡¡¡¡. Thank you very much ¡¡¡¡. THIS IS AMAZING.
> My favourite string of all time, Adagio/agitato, comes to life again.
> 
> This is so Expressive .... I've something like a dozen top string libraries. No one is even near to the expressiveness it can be achieved with Adachi.
> 
> There are no words to describe what I am feeling playing my keyboard. I´ll be so pleased to make you a donation.... have you considered it?


I bought an album for starters. Will comeback later for sure!


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Vlzmusic said:


> All in all, Sarah, your presentation is more convincing than a new product currently discussed in the other thread.


I thought the same thing. And I'm sure we're not alone. Convincing ostinato intervals goes a long way...


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

I'm not sure what's being referred to but I'd prefer to keep drama about other products out of this thread if possible...


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I'm not sure what's being referred to but I'd prefer to keep drama about other products out of this thread if possible...


I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just that you're presentation is very convincing. Which is kind of ironic considering it's a free offer. That's how i interpreted it anyway.

edited: I think i may have misinterpreted that after all.


----------



## Evans

Haakond said:


> I bought Agitato a couple of years back, but stopped using them because of samples jumping around with the stereo image.


Can anyone comment on _how_ prevalent this is? It's potentially my largest pet peeve for any VI while starting a new project, and I've definitely brought my system to its knees trying to resolve this with realtime processing.


----------



## C.Calmes

Hello everybody, and sorry, but did I messed something ?
I mean : 
1 - I have the Adagio Serie
2 - I have the Adagio 2.0 Serie
3 - I have the Anthologie Serie
4 - I only have the Agitato Con Sordino

What is this Adagio 1.6 serie ?
Anyway Sarah, You made an awesome job. I really want to try it.


----------



## djDarkX

Adagio 1.x is the old version of Adagio before the v2 update (which is what the Anthology update is). If you have the old version, you have 1.x (1.6 is for Violins, for sure).


----------



## newbreednet

Back some time ago I heard whisperings of (what we now know as) Adachi and was excited to see if it came to fruition. It did! And it's wonderful, even if I only have Adagio/Anthology to throw at it. 

But obviously now I am pining for Agitato too.

If we can truly exclude the need for Agitato Sordino for Adachi to work in full, then currently it's $48 each for the four other Agitato sections (3 Grandiose + Arpeggio) minus 55% discount = $86.40.

Question is, do we think we'll get a better deal for this on BF?


----------



## Haakond

Evans said:


> Can anyone comment on _how_ prevalent this is? It's potentially my largest pet peeve for any VI while starting a new project, and I've definitely brought my system to its knees trying to resolve this with realtime processing.


I am sure there are workarounds, but I switched to CS2 because of this


----------



## ScarletJerry

Congrats to @Sarah Mancuso for this amazing labor of love. It sounds amazing and looks intriguing, but when I launch any patch, it gets stuck searching for the instrument samples. I'm not sure where the Adachi folder should be placed, or if I'm getting impatient because I stop the searching after about five mins. I will try it again tomorrow when I can look at it with a fresh perspective.

And yes, 8Dio should hire Sarah.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

ScarletJerry said:


> Congrats to @Sarah Mancuso for this amazing labor of love. It sounds amazing and looks intriguing, but when I launch any patch, it gets stuck searching for the instrument samples. I'm not sure where the Adachi folder should be placed, or if I'm getting impatient because I stop the searching after about five mins. I will try it again tomorrow when I can look at it with a fresh perspective.
> 
> And yes, 8Dio should hire Sarah.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


I think the most most error-proof way is probably to copy or move your Adagio and Agitato samples into one big Samples folder, then make an Instruments folder right beside it and put the Adachi NKIs in there. So, basically following the usual Kontakt library folder structure. (You may also be able to use a shortcut or an alias instead of copying the files, I'm not 100% sure though.)


----------



## studioj

This is so cool and impressive that you did this @Sarah Mancuso. Thank you! Adagio is probably my oldest library that still remains in my productions in bits and pieces. 

It seems I'm able to open everything with having both the original Adagio and Anthology so far -except- the cellos. I have both (at least its how I have them labeled) the V1 cellos and the 1.5 update, but those instruments don't want to link to those sample pools. Is there any other identifying markers on the Cello samples that might point me in the right direction? For instance my cello ensemble V1 Perdition samples start with "ens_sord_leg_3_rep_mp_80_a#1_int1_MIX" and are dated Nov 29th, 2012. do I have a newer or older version? Thank you!


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

ScarletJerry said:


> Congrats to @Sarah Mancuso for this amazing labor of love. It sounds amazing and looks intriguing, but when I launch any patch, it gets stuck searching for the instrument samples. I'm not sure where the Adachi folder should be placed, or if I'm getting impatient because I stop the searching after about five mins. I will try it again tomorrow when I can look at it with a fresh perspective.
> 
> And yes, 8Dio should hire Sarah.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


It's rather simple. I have an 8Dio folder for my 8Dio libraries and I've put my Adachi folder in that folder along with all my 8Dio libraries. When kontakt missing sample message appear, i point to the folder. Kontakt tell you which is missing so read and point. if i can do it anyone can do it believe me. 
edited: for missing Adagio Violins ens. samples you point directly at the sample folder: Adagio->Adagio Violins->samples->ensemble and click OK. For missing Ajitato i simply pointed at the Ajitato folder. It worked for me. Takes a while but it's worth it.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

studioj said:


> This is so cool and impressive that you did this @Sarah Mancuso. Thank you! Adagio is probably my oldest library that still remains in my productions in bits and pieces.
> 
> It seems I'm able to open everything with having both the original Adagio and Anthology so far -except- the cellos. I have both (at least its how I have them labeled) the V1 cellos and the 1.5 update, but those instruments don't want to link to those sample pools. Is there any other identifying markers on the Cello samples that might point me in the right direction? For instance my cello ensemble V1 Perdition samples start with "ens_sord_leg_3_rep_mp_80_a#1_int1_MIX" and are dated Nov 29th, 2012. do I have a newer or older version? Thank you!


That is very strange... the filenames and dates appear to match what I have here.


----------



## studioj

Sarah Mancuso said:


> That is very strange... the filenames and dates appear to match what I have here.


Ok thank you for confirming, perhaps something wonky with my files then.


----------



## studioj

Oddly, just now using Spotlight found the adagio cello samples (but not the Agitato)... I looked at the location in the mapping editor and they are the same samples in the same location. But then I closed it without saving the instrument and now spotlight doesn't find them on a second try. doh! They are the same samples, I looked through the list and confirmed a few. so it seems just something unfriendly about my particular sample pool.


----------



## unclecheeks

Fantastic work, Sarah, thanks for sharing it! Do i have it right that only Grandiose Violins and Legato Arpeggio are needed from the Agitato series? I have Adagio (+ Anthology) and Legato Arpeggio and was able to load everything except a few Grandiose Violin samples in the violins nki. 

Any plans on integrating other content from Agitato in the future? Asking for a friend who's trying to complete his Adachi sample kit for the cheapest price, while the 8dio sale is still ongoing. 

Big thanks for all the time and effort that has gone into this!


----------



## gwretling

Sarah Mancuso said:


> *Disclaimers:*
> Adachi is a work in progress. A few of the legato types and some of the sustain arcs have not yet been ported over to Adachi. A few instruments have not been ported over at all (solo violin, solo viola, and sordino basses). In addition, a few of the instruments use an older dynamics-filtering setup that IMO doesn’t sound as convincing, though I haven’t had any issues mixing and matching the newer and older types in the same music.



Great work!
Will there be instr. patches for solo violin and solo viola further on?


----------



## artomatic

This sounds amazing, Sarah! Thank you for sharing your creation. I've always loved these 8Dio string libs but now they're even lovelier!
Very appreciative and so grateful for your time spent in making this possible.


----------



## CT

Hello again Sarah, I love you, goodnight.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

unclecheeks said:


> Fantastic work, Sarah, thanks for sharing it! Do i have it right that only Grandiose Violins and Legato Arpeggio are needed from the Agitato series? I have Adagio (+ Anthology) and Legato Arpeggio and was able to load everything except a few Grandiose Violin samples in the violins nki.
> 
> Any plans on integrating other content from Agitato in the future? Asking for a friend who's trying to complete his Adachi sample kit for the cheapest price, while the 8dio sale is still ongoing.
> 
> Big thanks for all the time and effort that has gone into this!


I am in the process of integrating some more Agitato content, but as far as I can recall, the entirety of the Agitato Sordino material exists between Adagio Legacy and Anthology, so I think you can safely skip it if you don't have it already.



gwretling said:


> Great work!
> Will there be instr. patches for solo violin and solo viola further on?


I'd like to do them at some point, yes, as well as the other legato type for the cello. The main reason I've put off doing it is because Adagio's round-robin legatos usually need me to retime all the samples so the performers don't sound drunk, and that is an extremely time-consuming and tedious task with sets of 3 or 4 legato RRs -- hundreds and hundreds of samples to get in time with one another, and lots of sequencer testing to do to check the results. I _could_ do a basic port of them without the retiming, but they wouldn't play as consistently.


----------



## Pablocrespo

So, if I have adagio, I should buy Agitato Legato Arpeggio and the Grandiose Violin, Viola, Cello just to be sure everything works, right?

Thanks for this, I always hoped to have that legato round robin back and forth magic!!!


----------



## djDarkX

Pablocrespo said:


> So, if I have adagio, I should buy Agitato Legato Arpeggio and the Grandiose Violin, Viola, Cello just to be sure everything works, right?
> 
> Thanks for this, I always hoped to have that legato round robin back and forth magic!!!


Yes. I have Grandiose Viola & Cello on my wishlist to buy in a few days. Right now, all the patches work without them (outside of Violins), but she is currently working on adding the missing features that those libraries have. Best to get them now so when the updated versions come out with those samples, you don't miss out.

Also, for those wondering, don't worry about Sordino. Anthology does in fact have them, so if you have Anthology, you've got Sordino series as well.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

djDarkX said:


> Right now, all the patches work without them (outside of Violins),


Almost but not quite -- the other ensemble sections do currently include the Fast Feathered legato from Agitato Arpeggio.


----------



## djDarkX

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Almost but not quite -- the other ensemble sections do currently include the Fast Feathered legato from Agitato Arpeggio.


Right. I knew I was forgetting that tidbit of info. If you have Fast Legato Arpeggio's and Grandiose Violins, the other patches work without the Grandiose versions, for now. That I know of, there is no Grandiose Basses, so no worries about that.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

As mentioned above, I've been working on porting over the remaining Ensemble Violas sustains, meaning the loures and the Agitato-specific short arcs. I'm hoping to get the remaining legato types in there soon as well (the portamentos from Adagio and the Fast Pointed from Arpeggio). Ensemble Cellos are up next after that.


----------



## Pablocrespo

ok, bought Agitato Grandiose Violin, Viola and Cello and Agitato Arpeggio!


----------



## newbreednet

Pablocrespo said:


> ok, bought Agitato Grandiose Violin, Viola and Cello and Agitato Arpeggio!


same!! I couldn't resist any longer. Go, Adachi, go!!!


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Sarah Mancuso ,

I have the Adagio Violins, and Cellos ver. 1.6 , but the Violas, and Basses show version V1.0 in the sample folder resources. I checked my 8dio account, for the downloads, and same shows there, Violins, and Cellos are ver 1.6, Violas and Basses are Ver 1.

Do you think these samples should work with ADACHI Instruments ? or should I request ver 1.6 Vlas, and 1.6 Basses from 8dio support to be added to my downloads ?

I also have the full Agitato sections, so that should be fine.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sarah Mancuso ,
> 
> I have the Adagio Violins, and Cellos ver. 1.6 , but the Violas, and Basses show version V1.0 in the sample folder resources. I checked my 8dio account, for the downloads, and same shows there, Violins, and Cellos are ver 1.6, Violas and Basses are Ver 1.
> 
> Do you think these samples should work with ADACHI Instruments ?
> 
> I also have the full Agitato sections, so that should be fine.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Yes, those should be fine. Not all of the Adagio Legacy instruments were updated to 1.6. This is probably because the violas and basses came out later than the violins and cellos.


----------



## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Yes, those should be fine. Not all of the Adagio Legacy instruments were updated to 1.6. This is probably because the violas and basses came out later than the violins and cellos.


OK. THANKS


----------



## chrisav

So for the Anthology sordino patches, I'd just copy those samples over (or redirect to their folder) and won't have to do any renaming or other weirdness?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

chrisav said:


> So for the Anthology sordino patches, I'd just copy those samples over (or redirect to their folder) and won't have to do any renaming or other weirdness?


Yes, they should be interchangeable.


----------



## djDarkX

Before anyone copies anything, please view this video I made. It will make installing and updating the patches MUCH easier for Windows users. At the request of Sarah, here is the video you all need to make your lives, and hers, easier (so she doesn't have to keep repeating herself).



If you're not watching on Youtube and instead watching here, this is the link to the software needed to make symbolic links.

Link Shell Extension


----------



## lexiaodong

I like the tone of Anthology very much, but it has some stereo problems. The sound fluctuates left and right. Is there a solution?


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I just got to hear one of the patches, ADACHI Vlns Ens. Legato, and they sound amazing, (THANKS Sarah), it takes a while to scan the Adagio Samples, then Agitato Samples, the resave the patch, for each of the ADACHI Patches.

Is there any additional documentation on ADACHI i.e. kind of a condensed user's manual ?

I have to continue loading, and scanning the remaining patches of ADACHI. I'm delighted with the sound already.

@Sarah Mancuso , I donated a small token of my appreciation, to Thank You for this fantastic effort, and time you spent working on this project, and deciding to share it with this community. Your are super cool, and very talented.

Cheers,
Muziksculp

Here is a pic of ADACHI Vlns Ensemble Legato Patch, I don't think anyone posted how it looks in Kontakt


----------



## parapentep70

@djDarkX and other windows users:
Thanks. Anyway I installed the instruments (in Windows) without any need to copy samples or create links. I just told Kontakt to locate the missing samples (in the original folders) and saved. It worked.

It is true that for some reason these instruments seem to be more complicated, because they need to locate the samples in DIFFERENT folders. When this happens Kontakt seems to be in an infinite loop. No problem! Clicking "cancel" and providing the location of the next folder with samples (you can see what Kontakt needs for the instrument easily), Kontakt can find more samples. Notice that the number of missing samples decreases. Repeating 2 or 3 times Kontakt locates ALL the samples required.

Once it worked for one instrument, I did a batch resave for all "Adachi" instruments, repeating the location of samples in the few different folders where I have them (again 4 or 5, I cannot remember). No need to move or create links or rename. I kept the original ".ins" zipped just in case. 

The only thing that is not straightforward (or perhaps a bug) is the fact that when Kontakt finds part of the samples, it seems to be in an infinite loop showing many files names per second. Click cancel, go for the next folder and you'll se the number of missing samples decreasing.

I hope it helps.

@Sarah Mancuso I also donated as a way to say thank you.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just got to hear one of the patches, ADACHI Vlns Ens. Legato, and they sound amazing, (THANKS Sarah), it takes a while to scan the Adagio Samples, then Agitato Samples, the resave the patch, for each of the ADACHI Patches.
> 
> Is there any additional documentation on ADACHI i.e. kind of a condensed user's manual ?
> 
> I have to continue getting loading, and scanning the remaining patches of ADACHI. I'm delighted with the sound already.
> 
> @Sarah Mancuso , I will be donating a small token of my appreciation, to Thank You for this fantastic effort, and time you spent working on this project, and deciding to share it with this community. Super cool, and very talented.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp
> 
> Here is a pic of ADACHI Vlns Ensemble Legato Patch, I don't think anyone posted how it looks in Kontakt


Thank you for your generosity!

There isn't a user manual, sorry about that. For most of this year only myself and a handful of friends have had access to this.

Blue keyswitches are mapped to change legato types. Red keyswitches are mapped to change sustain types. Purple keyswitches are mapped to change both at the same time. (If you see a different color, it means that key is currently selected.) Any of the keyswitches can be a "stack" of multiple velocity or speed controlled articulations, or they can be a single articulation. The message bar underneath the keyboard will show you what's mapped to a key when you mouse over it, as long as you have that part of the Kontakt UI open.

The Microphone controls are hopefully self-explanatory. The Vibrato slider only affects sustains that have vibrato layers (of course), this is usually just the Looped Sustain (though some of those don't have it). The Disable Legato button does what it says, and can be automated if you want to play chords somewhere in your track.

The "dev controls" view is where I configure many of the legato settings (the parts that aren't defined in the Kontakt backend or in the scripts themselves), and I don't recommend messing with it unless you're feeling very adventurous and eager to break things.

The keyswitch editor itself is probably the most complex part to understand. You can map each articulation in multiple places, which allows for a lot of flexibility -- you can have keyswitches for switching between legato or sustain types manually _and _still be able to switch them via velocity or performance speed. The velocity and speed settings in the keyswitch editor are specific to that keyswitch, so you can have completely different sets of auto-switching behaviors on different keyswitches.

The ^ and v buttons to the right can be used to scroll through the list.

The numbered buttons to the left can be used to select or deselect rows in the editor. You can quickly map a bunch of keyswitches by selecting artics in the dropdown menus on empty rows, using the selection buttons on those rows, pressing the midi key you want to start mapping from, and then clicking Automap Range. You can also automap them all to the same keyswitch via Automap Same, if you're wanting to then set them to different velocity or speed ranges on the same key.

You can use the Load and Save buttons to store your keyswitches in an external file, which can be useful if you're updating to a new version of Adachi and you want to make sure you don't lose how you had things set up.

There is currently a minor bug that means sometimes velocity switching won't work as expected until you press the Sort button. This isn't always necessary, but if things seem to be misbehaving, try that and it should fix it. I haven't tackled it yet because solving it may require significant changes to how artic switching is currently handled.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

lexiaodong said:


> I like the tone of Anthology very much, but it has some stereo problems. The sound fluctuates left and right. Is there a solution?


Probably not without heavily processing the samples somehow, which isn't within scope for this project (and for obvious reasons, I can't distribute 8Dio's samples). It seems to be an artifact of the recording process. It's not ideal, but it's something that I live with because I like the sound enough otherwise.


----------



## WindcryMusic

Sarah Mancuso said:


> As mentioned above, I've been working on porting over the remaining Ensemble Violas sustains, meaning the loures and the Agitato-specific short arcs. I'm hoping to get the remaining legato types in there soon as well (the portamentos from Adagio and the Fast Pointed from Arpeggio). Ensemble Cellos are up next after that.


And this is why 8Dio just made a little more money from me this morning, in order for me to complete my Agitato collection so that I can fully enjoy Adachi, and for no other reason. Sarah, Troels ought to send you a commission.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Two questions just for the screenshot posted above, haven‘t tried it yet. So really looking forward to use it. 

With the drop-downs of legato and sustain types you can select every available articulation and mix them to you heart‘s content?
Velocity switching means your playing velocity or the velocity of the keyswitch?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Two questions just from the screenshot posted above, haven‘t tried it yet. So really looking forward to use it.
> 
> With the drop-downs of legato and sustain types you can select every available articulation and mix them to you heart‘s content?
> Velocity switching means your playing velocity or the velocity of the keyswitch?


1) Yes! Freely mixing and matching between the various legatos and arcs was one of the central goals I had for this project.
2) Velocity switching is based on your playing velocity. Keyswitch velocity is ignored.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

I should also note that the Ensemble Violins patch has a number of extra sustain arcs/loures that aren't mapped to any keys by default, just because there are so many available. You can add them via the keyswitch editor if you want to try them out!


----------



## muziksculp

I think an ADACHI video tutorial would be super helpful. 

Showing how to use it, and the creative options available, to customize it to taste, or needed sonic character. 

There is a lot going on in the GUI.


----------



## devonmyles

I suppose it's too much to expect Babylon Waves to be all over this with a expression map update?


I thought not...oh well, I will just have to roll up my sleeves and get my hands dirty rolling my own expression maps for Nuendo.
🤣


----------



## AndyP

Spotlight in Kontakt on the Mac works fine for me. That way, Kontakt loads all the samples quickly and without me having to prepare anything beforehand.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I having trouble finding Violas and Basses samples, maybe I have 2.0 samples? 8dio download mails says so, but I don´t know if I have 1.x or 2.0 ones.

EDIT: nevermind I found the problem


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

If the interface on your version of Adagio looks like Anthology, it's 2.0.


----------



## Pablocrespo

Yes, I have downloaded the wrong version, I think I am downloading the right one.

I have a small question, sometimes, the first note of a phrase has a small swell, with no attack, then the rest is fine, am I doing something wrong?

Otherwise first impression: this is amazing, can´t tell you how much I´ve waited for rocking back and forth legato, don´t know how developers haven´t discovered this method yet. Congrats!!!!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Pablocrespo said:


> Yes, I have downloaded the wrong version, I think I am downloading the right one.
> 
> I have a small question, sometimes, the first note of a phrase has a small swell, with no attack, then the rest is fine, am I doing something wrong?
> 
> Otherwise first impression: this is amazing, can´t tell you how much I´ve waited for rocking back and forth legato, don´t know how developers haven´t discovered this method yet. Congrats!!!!


If you need a sharper attack, try a different sustain type. "Sustain Looped (Agitato)" is pretty immediate on the ensemble violins, while most of the Arc sustains begin with a much slower dynamic swell.


----------



## Ricgus3

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Here's another Adachi demo track! I wrote this earlier in the year as a torture test for the round-robin legatos while I was in the process of retiming some of them. This is a piece of music I don't think I could have written with anything besides Adachi.



So Amazing! Such a beautiful track! I don’t own agitato but I own the other ones. Now hoping for agitato as BF freebie or discount so I can use your patches!


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I finally got ADACHI Strings Installed.

@Sarah Mancuso ,

This is one of the best sounding Legato Strings I have used. I'm Not exaggerating. 

The Legato combinations, along with the beautiful, lively, full of character, and personality samples of Adagio, and Agitato is just fantastic. There are infinite ways one can make these legatos sound, and behave. WOW !

The Sordino Legatos are so expressive, and wonderful sounding as well.

This is a GEM Legato Library you have created. I'm going to be using it quite a bit. You have given these samples a new life.

OH.. I want to double check on a simple detail, The ROWS column (1,2,3, .... ) when I select one, or multiple ROWS, that means they are the Activated ones, the unselected ones are not active ?

I can select the type of Legato, and Sustain for each Row, and I can choose if I want a specific ROW to be triggered via Velocity/Time/Keyswitch. I'm also guessing 'Time' relates to the Speed trigger for the ROW ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I finally got ADACHI Strings Installed.
> 
> @Sarah Mancuso ,
> 
> This is one of the best sounding Legato Strings I have used. I'm Not exaggerating.
> 
> The Legato combinations, along with the beautiful, lively, full of character, and personality samples of Adagio, and Agitato is just fantastic. There are infinite ways one can make these legatos sound, and behave. WOW !
> 
> The Sordino Legatos are so expressive, and wonderful sounding as well.
> 
> This is a GEM Legato Library you have created. I'm going to be using it quite a bit. You have given these samples a new life.
> 
> OH.. I want to double check on a simple detail, The ROWS column (1,2,3, .... ) when I select one, or multiple ROWS, that means they are the Activated ones, the unselected ones are not active ?
> 
> I can select the type of Legato, and Sustain for each Row, and I can choose if I want a specific ROW to be triggered via Velocity/Time/Keyswitch. I'm also guessing 'Time' relates to the Speed trigger for the ROW ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Articulations are active regardless of whether they're selected in the editor. Selection is currently only for the Automap functions.

The "Time" column is used for speed-controlled activation, yes. It measures the time since the previous note in milliseconds, and if the time since the previous note isn't longer than the specified time in ms, it will trigger that articulation. If you need an example of this, you can scroll through the list and see how I've set up the "Fast Feathered" articulations to be speed-triggered on some of the included articulation stacks.

Glad you're enjoying Adachi!


----------



## EvilDragon

parapentep70 said:


> @djDarkX and other windows users:
> Thanks. Anyway I installed the instruments (in Windows) without any need to copy samples or create links. I just told Kontakt to locate the missing samples (in the original folders) and saved. It worked.
> 
> It is true that for some reason these instruments seem to be more complicated, because they need to locate the samples in DIFFERENT folders. When this happens Kontakt seems to be in an infinite loop. No problem! Clicking "cancel" and providing the location of the next folder with samples (you can see what Kontakt needs for the instrument easily), Kontakt can find more samples. Notice that the number of missing samples decreases. Repeating 2 or 3 times Kontakt locates ALL the samples required.
> 
> Once it worked for one instrument, I did a batch resave for all "Adachi" instruments, repeating the location of samples in the few different folders where I have them (again 4 or 5, I cannot remember). No need to move or create links or rename. I kept the original ".ins" zipped just in case.
> 
> The only thing that is not straightforward (or perhaps a bug) is the fact that when Kontakt finds part of the samples, it seems to be in an infinite loop showing many files names per second. Click cancel, go for the next folder and you'll se the number of missing samples decreasing.
> 
> I hope it helps.



Sure, you could do it like that, but it's slower and a bit more volatile overall. It's much better to use symlinks to put all the associated sample content accessible from one folder only.


----------



## Batrawi

Sarah Mancuso said:


> So much so that I was inspired to learn KSP scripting


That's even more inspiring than Adachi itself!... learning KSP scripting in such a relatively short period of time is really impressive!!! Can you suggest a link for beginners to start with? (I'm staring at a couple of other 8dio stuff that I have that I need to discipline..)


----------



## WindcryMusic

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Articulations are active regardless of whether they're selected in the editor. Selection is currently only for the Automap functions.
> 
> The "Time" column is used for speed-controlled activation, yes. It measures the time since the previous note in milliseconds, and if the time since the previous note isn't longer than the specified time in ms, it will trigger that articulation. If you need an example of this, you can scroll through the list and see how I've set up the "Fast Feathered" articulations to be speed-triggered on some of the included articulation stacks.
> 
> Glad you're enjoying Adachi!



So am I, thus far. I’ve started converting the Cello patches to find my sample locations, and then absolutely fanboying over the sound thereof as each one becomes playable. Now if I can just get my head wrapped around the UI, I’ll be beyond thrilled.

To the latter point, perhaps you would consider making a YouTube video where you‘d take us through the usage of the Adachi UI? That might be both easier/quicker than writing a full Adachi manual, and simultaneously more illuminating for any other persons like me (i.e., growing older and less quick-witted, hehe).


----------



## muziksculp

WindcryMusic said:


> To the latter point, perhaps you would consider making a YouTube video where you‘d take us through the usage of the Adachi UI? That might be both easier/quicker than writing a full Adachi manual, and simultaneously more illuminating for any other persons like me (i.e., growing older and less quick-witted, hehe).


+1

I'm still not sure what's going on in the UI, with regards to all the legatos, and sustain options, what exactly is happening behind the scenes ? Some how the concept is not clicking with me.

Surely, a detailed Video tutorial would be super helpful.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> +1
> 
> I'm still not sure what's going on in the UI, with regards to all the legatos, and sustain options, what exactly is happening behind the scenes ? Some how the concept is not clicking with me.
> 
> Surely, a detailed Video tutorial would be super helpful.


Most of the UI is only for _editing_ keyswitches, you can use Adachi without messing with it. Use the color-highlighted keys on the actual keyboard to change articulations.



Batrawi said:


> That's even more inspiring than Adachi itself!... learning KSP scripting in such a relatively short period of time is really impressive!!! Can you suggest a link for beginners to start with? (I'm staring at a couple of other 8dio stuff that I have that I need to discipline..)


Xtant-Audio's Kontakt scripting tutorials were a very useful starting point for me. I did already have other programming experience, though, which helped a lot.



WindcryMusic said:


> So am I, thus far. I’ve started converting the Cello patches to find my sample locations, and then absolutely fanboying over the sound thereof as each one becomes playable. Now if I can just get my head wrapped around the UI, I’ll be beyond thrilled.
> 
> To the latter point, perhaps you would consider making a YouTube video where you‘d take us through the usage of the Adachi UI? That might be both easier/quicker than writing a full Adachi manual, and simultaneously more illuminating for any other persons like me (i.e., growing older and less quick-witted, hehe).


I'll think about it, though I can't guarantee I'll have time to put together something decent. As I mentioned above, you can use Adachi while mostly ignoring the UI.


----------



## parapentep70

EvilDragon said:


> Sure, you could do it like that, but it's slower and a bit more volatile overall. It's much better to use symlinks to put all the associated sample content accessible from one folder only.


Then I will try, sounds useful if I am creating derivative libs or ins from existing ones.


----------



## djDarkX

I'll see what I can do about a video tutorial later. Can't promise I can make one that will really show off how good this project is, but I will see what I can do. If someone else beats me to it, by all means!


----------



## WindcryMusic

djDarkX said:


> I'll see what I can do about a video tutorial later. Can't promise I can make one that will really show off how good this project is, but I will see what I can do.


Heck yeah! If you have a grasp on the UI and can make a video explaining it, I’ll absolutely be watching it.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Sarah Mancuso ,

I'm curious which 8dio library/s short articulations (Stacc., Staccatisimo, Spicc, Pizz, ..etc.) do you fancy using the most ?

I would love to have a specialty Shorts library that can be customized to taste, so I was thinking maybe you would have some interest in making another custom library, just for the shorts, using various 8dio's library shorts samples, not sure if this is doable, or makes sense to you technically. 

I just wanted to give you an idea for another Adachi type project. No Legatos this time, just shorts. 



Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sarah Mancuso ,
> 
> I'm curious which 8dio library/s short articulations (Stacc., Staccatisimo, Spicc, Pizz, ..etc.) do you fancy using the most ?
> 
> I would love to have a specialty Shorts library that can be customized to taste, so I was thinking maybe you would have some interest in making another custom library, just for the shorts, using various 8dio's library shorts samples, not sure if this is doable, or makes sense to you technically.
> 
> I just wanted to give you an idea for another Adachi type project. No Legatos this time, just shorts.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


The closest match would be Adagio or Anthology, so I'd recommend trying those. Though personally, I tend to just use SCS for other artics to go with the Adachi legato patches.

And while I'm not going to say "never", I don't currently have plans to do another unofficial remake project like this. Adachi has been a massive undertaking with just legato, and I've been able to stay motivated for it by focusing specifically on things I personally wanted but wasn't getting out of the stock Adagio and Anthology patches.

At one point earlier in the year I did have a bunch of other artics ported over to a version of Adachi's ensemble violins patch, but it was becoming a huge project in and of itself that I just wasn't very interested in taking on, so I scrapped that direction and decided to focus solely on the legato.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

djDarkX said:


> I'll see what I can do about a video tutorial later. Can't promise I can make one that will really show off how good this project is, but I will see what I can do. If someone else beats me to it, by all means!


Sara's demos showed how good her mod is. But a video about the interface showing what does what. Plus your installation tutorial would help users and liberate Sara from answering all the questions... Personally, i think i get the interface pretty well. It's design is rather simple and logical and yet allows for a lot customization. Only a few things i don't know what they do but it looks like they are not fundamental features. Honestly, i don't think a video is necessary except for newbs. Considering it's a free project, i think people should make an effort to learn the GUI. I mean she even made so we can see what is triggered. But I'll watch the video for sure if you make it. 

p.s. didn't mean to offend anyone here. It's ok if you're newb or haven't been introduced some functions like keyswitch with velocity/speed conditions.


----------



## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> The closest match would be Adagio or Anthology, so I'd recommend trying those. Though personally, I tend to just use SCS for other artics to go with the Adachi legato patches.
> 
> And while I'm not going to say "never", I don't currently have plans to do another unofficial remake project like this. Adachi has been a massive undertaking with just legato, and I've been able to stay motivated for it by focusing specifically on things I personally wanted but wasn't getting out of the stock Adagio and Anthology patches.
> 
> At one point earlier in the year I did have a bunch of other artics ported over to a version of Adachi's ensemble violins patch, but it was becoming a huge project in and of itself that I just wasn't very interested in taking on, so I scrapped that direction and decided to focus solely on the legato.


Hi Sarah,

I totally understand. 

Thanks for the recommendations for shorts, and other articulations you like to mix with Adachi Legato patches. 

I also wanted to add that the reason I brought this up, regarding the short articulations, is I always wanted to have a library that specialized in short articulations, and gave me the ability to design my own versions by layering from a large pool of samples, and shape them via envelopes, to shape the attack characteristics, and much more. Basically a Short Articulation workhorse, that can be used with many String libraries. Maybe a developer will read this, and think about it as a feasible, and attractive project. 

All The Best,
Muziksculp


----------



## Ricgus3

Sarah Mancuso said:


> The closest match would be Adagio or Anthology, so I'd recommend trying those. Though personally, I tend to just use SCS for other artics to go with the Adachi legato patches.
> 
> And while I'm not going to say "never", I don't currently have plans to do another unofficial remake project like this. Adachi has been a massive undertaking with just legato, and I've been able to stay motivated for it by focusing specifically on things I personally wanted but wasn't getting out of the stock Adagio and Anthology patches.
> 
> At one point earlier in the year I did have a bunch of other artics ported over to a version of Adachi's ensemble violins patch, but it was becoming a huge project in and of itself that I just wasn't very interested in taking on, so I scrapped that direction and decided to focus solely on the legato.


From all of us, we are extremely grateful for your work and sharing @Sarah Mancuso . Your work here is beyond what I could imagine.


----------



## sinkd

I was not going to go for anything in the last sale, but 65% off of Anthology so that I can use these instruments was too hard to pass up! Thanks for your work and generosity! (you should really set up a link for donations or something  [EDIT: I see the links in your signature.]


----------



## Pablocrespo

I am trying to come up with a good way to map this with expression maps and I get lost playing, that´s how good this is!

Somebody has made Expression maps? I am trying to be able to mix and match legatos and sustains without having to map every combination with an attribute.

Also, should I set a 240ms negative delay in Cubase?


----------



## djDarkX

Pablocrespo said:


> I am trying to come up with a good way to map this with expression maps and I get lost playing, that´s how good this is!
> 
> Somebody has made Expression maps? I am trying to be able to mix and match legatos and sustains without having to map every combination with an attribute.
> 
> Also, should I set a 240ms negative delay in Cubase?


The delay depends entirely on your tempo. Check different ones. For Sarah, -240ms works for her, but the a lot of the pieces I'm working on right now, I have to set them to either -140ms or -80ms. Test different ones out and see how they sound to you.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

djDarkX said:


> The delay depends entirely on your tempo. Check different ones. For Sarah, -240ms works for her, but the a lot of the pieces I'm working on right now, I have to set them to either -140ms or -80ms. Test different ones out and see how they sound to you.


Really? 240 (or in the vicinity of it) seems about right to me regardless of speed -- the legato transitions themselves aren't tempo-dependent at all, so it shouldn't be affected by that. Which instruments are you using?


----------



## djDarkX

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Really? 240 (or in the vicinity of it) seems about right to me regardless of speed -- the legato transitions themselves aren't tempo-dependent at all, so it shouldn't be affected by that. Which instruments are you using?


I've been using, mostly the violin ensembles and setting the delay to -240 was causing syncing issues for my tracks. Maybe it's a Reaper thing? I dunno, but for me, -140 or -80 seems to work best. The legatos are perfectly in line with the other tracks.


----------



## parapentep70

djDarkX said:


> I've been using, mostly the violin ensembles and setting the delay to -240 was causing syncing issues for my tracks. Maybe it's a Reaper thing? I dunno, but for me, -140 or -80 seems to work best. The legatos are perfectly in line with the other tracks.


I am also in Reaper, I put just 240ms and seemed to work for me. I was checking just with the metronome. It was so good that I wrote a new idea on the spur of the moment  .Is it at all possible that you combined Adachi with other instrument which are actually delayed by some ~80...100ms? The discrepancy looks too big for me.

Lately I test all instruments with the metronome and I set the negative delay one by one. I was recently caught in a situation when everything was delayed "approximately" 100ms... This was a mess to correct. So now I check early. I am using simply "JS: Time Adjustment Delay" after the Kontakt instance.


----------



## mgaewsj

A few weeks ago there’s been an interesting thread about "That Octopath Sound"
I posted my take then using BBCSO Core.

So thanks to Sarah 🙏🏼 I now bought the Agitato stuff (at V8P discount) and I tried it immediately to check how that part would sound with Adachi.

Here is the result (warning, I am noob ). I didn’t spend too much time in selecting the perfect articulation, I basically changed a couple of legato and sustain types and I had to move the first note of each phrase because the initial swell is really slow as @Pablocrespo noticed (and yes, some sustain types have shorter swells but I could not get a really sharp attack, I guess I should spend more time on it).
For pizzicato I used Adagio Basses but they do not sound too right for this piece, release is too short, or perhaps it's just a matter of adding some reverb. Indeed I did not use any EQ or reverb.

So, it’s definitely not “that” sound, but I am sure in more expert hands (i.e. @Sarah Mancuso ) it could sound much better than this!

Thanks again @Sarah Mancuso this is wonderful stuff ❤️


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

mgaewsj said:


> A few weeks ago there’s been an interesting thread about "That Octopath Sound"
> I posted my take then using BBCSO Core.
> 
> So thanks to Sarah 🙏🏼 I now bought the Agitato stuff (at V8P discount) and I tried it immediately to check how that part would sound with Adachi.
> 
> Here is the result (warning, I am noob ). I didn’t spend too much time in selecting the perfect articulation, I basically changed a couple of legato and sustain types and I had to move the first note of each phrase because the initial swell is really slow as @Pablocrespo noticed (and yes, some sustain types have shorter swells but I could not get a really sharp attack, I guess I should spend more time on it).
> For pizzicato I used Adagio Basses but they do not sound too right for this piece, release is too short, or perhaps it's just a matter of adding some reverb. Indeed I did not use any EQ or reverb.
> 
> So, it’s definitely not “that” sound, but I am sure in more expert hands (i.e. @Sarah Mancuso ) it could sound much better than this!
> 
> Thanks again @Sarah Mancuso this is wonderful stuff ❤️


Very nice work on this, thanks for posting it! It's definitely more of a romantic film sound than the Octopath sound, but I like it for this anyway. I do agree that a different pizzicato with longer sustain would help, I don't think reverb will do much to change the lack of sustain on it.


----------



## timbit2006

Finding this thread put me in a string library buying frenzy and now I have Agitato, Century Strings and 8W.... I'm excited to find the time to try out Adachi!


----------



## Gerbil

Amazing work! Is Kontakt 6 needed for this?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Gerbil said:


> Amazing work! Is Kontakt 6 needed for this?


Yes, it uses Kontakt 6.6 currently.


----------



## Crossroads

Is it wrong that I never set a negative delay because I just really play in without quantize?

I honestly never heard of negative delay until last year and I've been doing this for 6+ years...

It's only needed if you quantize, right?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Crossroads said:


> Is it wrong that I never set a negative delay because I just really play in without quantize?
> 
> I honestly never heard of negative delay until last year and I've been doing this for 6+ years...
> 
> It's only needed if you quantize, right?


Yes, you can just manually line things up if you prefer.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Crossroads said:


> Is it wrong that I never set a negative delay because I just really play in without quantize?
> 
> I honestly never heard of negative delay until last year and I've been doing this for 6+ years...
> 
> It's only needed if you quantize, right?


I think negative delay is mostly used by people who use notation software etc. But don't quot me on that...


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I think negative delay is mostly used by people who use notation software etc. But don't quot me on that...


I just like being able to draw onto the grid without spending time offsetting every note manually.

(Instead I spend hours retiming inconsistent Adagio samples in Kontakt... Doing a bit more of that as we speak, actually.)


----------



## lettucehat

When negative delay works nicely with a library (i.e. it's consistent) it's amazing for editing your work. If you're never finding yourself cutting and pasting or conforming to new picture for projects, and just like, make your music how you want, then it's probably not worth the effort.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I just like being able to draw onto the grid without spending time offsetting every note manually.
> 
> (Instead I spend hours retiming inconsistent Adagio samples in Kontakt... Doing a bit more of that as we speak, actually.)


And it shows. Keep up the good work. We love you for it!


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

lettucehat said:


> When negative delay works nicely with a library (i.e. it's consistent) it's amazing for editing your work. If you're never finding yourself cutting and pasting or conforming to new picture for projects, and just like, make your music how you want, then it's probably not worth the effort.


I see. I'm gonna have to look into that feature. Always tought it was mostly for notation guys.


----------



## lettucehat

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I see. I'm gonna have to look into that feature. Always tought it was mostly for notation guys.


I think AKD talks about it in one of her videos. She's also a big fan of CSS so I'm not sure how it works out.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

lettucehat said:


> I think AKD talks about it in one of her videos. She's also a big fan of CSS so I'm not sure how it works out.


Excuse my ignorance but who's ADK?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Excuse my ignorance but who's ADK?


AKD = Anne-Kathrin Dern.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sarah Mancuso said:


> AKD = Anne-Kathrin Dern.


Thanks.


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## zwhita

This is outstanding work! Already getting a kick out of more versatile playing and am looking forward to keyswitching between Adagio and Agitato.

First thing I've tried to do is reduce some of the legato bumps. Is it just dialing in a compromise between fade time and legato eq amt? It might be nice to be able to increase the lag between notes that will keep legato enabled, especially for the articulations with slow fade-ins. I think the problem with it retriggering is the fault of my keyboard controller and my bumbling keyboard skills, because if I go in the editor and push the note length closer, the legato does not retrigger, which is what I intended. But it might be nice to be able to adjust the lag, as it's a feature unique to your script.

Also I notice certain legatos like Violin Ensemble Village do indeed have Vibrato control, and best I can tell, your script allows me to adjust it for those legato articulations I've tried.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

There isn't a setting anywhere in the UI for length of time you can wait between notes and still get legato -- it's just set up so that you can draw in adjacent notes without bothering to overlap them.

The dev controls page isn't really meant for general use. If you're really adventurous, though, mousing over the sliders will show explanations of what each control there does, underneath the Kontakt onscreen keyboard. Some controls are global per legato type, some are specific to each possible combination of legato type and sustain type. And if you want to get more in-depth with hacking the legatos, you can also open the Kontakt wrench view, select the relevant groups for that legato type, scroll down to the envelopes, and adjust the settings on those. But again, I don't really recommend this, it's a very deep rabbit hole.

Vibrato control is tied to sustain type, not legato type. Generally, only the primary sustain type has it (and in some cases those also don't have it), but it can be used regardless of legato type.


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## muziksculp

I wonder how Adachi Legato Strings will compare to the upcoming Pacific Strings Legatos ? 

Adachi is so expressive, and warm sounding, Loving these legatos. I haven't heard something similar to Adachi Legatos from Pacific Strings demos posted so far.


----------



## jon wayne

I own Adagio Legacy, Agitato Grandiose Bundle and Anthology (and just about every 8Dio string library). There are so many posts on this thread and I am really confused. Can I make an Adachi folder with all the instruments, then drag over the three libraries above and point to these sample folders? I apologize for my lack of knowledge of Kontakt. I am Mac and the only video with audio instructions are for Windows. Any help would be appreciated!!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

jon wayne said:


> I own Adagio Legacy, Agitato Grandiose Bundle and Anthology (and just about every 8Dio string library). There are so many posts on this thread and I am really confused. Can I make an Adachi folder with all the instruments, then drag over the three libraries above and point to these sample folders? I apologize for my lack of knowledge of Kontakt. I am Mac and the only video with audio instructions are for Windows. Any help would be appreciated!!


On Mac, you might be able to just click the Spotlight button in Kontakt’s missing samples dialog. If that doesn’t work, pointing it to the folders yourself will hopefully do it, or making aliases to put in a Samples folder with the Adachi instruments if that fails.


----------



## djDarkX

parapentep70 said:


> I am also in Reaper, I put just 240ms and seemed to work for me. I was checking just with the metronome. It was so good that I wrote a new idea on the spur of the moment  .Is it at all possible that you combined Adachi with other instrument which are actually delayed by some ~80...100ms? The discrepancy looks too big for me.
> 
> Lately I test all instruments with the metronome and I set the negative delay one by one. I was recently caught in a situation when everything was delayed "approximately" 100ms... This was a mess to correct. So now I check early. I am using simply "JS: Time Adjustment Delay" after the Kontakt instance.


Perhaps, but not sure. Either way, whatever works for your projects should be followed. Mine just happened to be different.


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## Alex_Krownway

Absolutely love it. ❤
Adachi instantly brought my interest for adagio and agitato back.
Got used to it in no time, for a more romantic/soothing feeling that I'm going for most of the time, this is a must.


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## muziksculp

Hi @Sarah Mancuso ,

Did you update the Adachi Violas with a further improved version ? Should I replace the old Violas with the latest one ? 

I just noticed this mentioned on Discord. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sarah Mancuso ,
> 
> Did you update the Adachi Violas with a further improved version ? Should I replace the old Violas with the latest one ?
> 
> I just noticed this mentioned on Discord.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


I'll be posting a new version here soonish, though you're welcome to play with the dev build I shared in the Discord thread if you want to be a guinea pig for it.


----------



## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I'll be posting a new version here soonish, though you're welcome to play with the dev build I shared in the Discord thread if you want to be a guinea pig for it.


OK. Thanks.  
I would rather just wait for the final build to be posted here.


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## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> OK. Thanks.
> I would rather just wait for the final build to be posted here.


"Final"
_hahahaha....ahaha...._


----------



## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> "Final"
> _hahahaha....ahaha...._


Final for now 

It seems like you are having scripting fun improving Adachi further. Do you know when to stop ?


----------



## Jeremy Morgan

@Sarah Mancuso if you don't mind my asking... how did you go about learning Kontakt scripting? Any good resources you used that you would recommend?


----------



## Batrawi

Jeremy Morgan said:


> @Sarah Mancuso if you don't mind my asking... how did you go about learning Kontakt scripting? Any good resources you used that you would recommend?





Sarah Mancuso said:


> Xtant-Audio's Kontakt scripting tutorials were a very useful starting point for me. I did already have other programming experience, though, which helped a lot.


----------



## Jeremy Morgan

Thanks! Missed that one.


----------



## jbuhler

jon wayne said:


> I own Adagio Legacy, Agitato Grandiose Bundle and Anthology (and just about every 8Dio string library). There are so many posts on this thread and I am really confused. Can I make an Adachi folder with all the instruments, then drag over the three libraries above and point to these sample folders? I apologize for my lack of knowledge of Kontakt. I am Mac and the only video with audio instructions are for Windows. Any help would be appreciated!!


The way I did it when I set this up is created an Adachi folder. Then I opened each of the nkis one by one, located the samples and saved the nki into the Adachi folder with the samples. This created a sample folder in the Adachi folder along with the nki. The disadvantage of this method is that it duplicates samples on the drive. The advantage is that the libraries can be easily moved without worrying about links breaking or needing to keep the full Adagio, Anthology or Agitato library on an SSD.


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## NekujaK

I just dropped Adachi into my 8dio folder, where all my other 8dio libraries live, did a Batch Resave on Adachi, and when prompted to find samples, simply pointed to the top level 8dio master folder. Kontakt found all the necessary samples in a matter of seconds.

Thank you @Sarah Mancuso for this amazing rework and revitilization of 8dio's strings! No doubt a tremendous amount of work went into this, and the excellent results speak for themselves!


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## Sarah Mancuso

*New version is up!* New latency synchronization features across the board, and lots of updates to the viola ensemble in particular.

The viola ensemble now includes the Emotional Slur portamento legato, a collection of Loure sustains, and the short Arc sustains from Agitato. The Village and Instinct round-robin legatos have been retimed for better consistency when playing faster parts. Various adjustments have also been made to improve crossfade settings with some common setups.

In all instruments, you can now optionally delay each phrase's starting note (i.e. non-legato notes) so that sharper sustains aren't out of sync with subsequent notes.

There's also now a slider that adds a legato delay offset per legato type, so that if I've done a poor job of getting any of them in sync with each other, you can adjust the delay on your own. (Note that I haven't tried syncing portamentos with the other types, because it would require a much longer delay on everything.)

The loures aren't loaded by default in the viola ens patch, as they're relatively niche and use a bunch of RAM due to timestretching, so use the keyswitch editor if you want to add one or several.

If you've got any music in progress using a previous version of the violas, note that some of the keyswitches have been moved around on them to make room for more artics. If you want to update but need to keep your existing keyswitches as-is for compatibility, you can use the Save and Load buttons to export the list from the old patch and import it into the new one.

Same download URL as always: https://esselfortium.net/ksp/adachi/Adachi.zip

Changelog:


> 10/29/21: *Added a control to the GUI to delay first note to better line up with legato notes.*
> 10/29/21: *Viola ens: Additional retiming of Village and Instinct legatos.*
> 
> 10/28/21: *Added a control to the GUI to adjust additional delay offset on each legato type, for sync purposes.*
> 10/28/21: Viola ens: Retimed first four rows of Village legato and adjusted upper rows.
> 10/28/21: Fixed a bug where speed-based artic switching could sometimes activate erroneously.
> 
> 10/27/21: *Viola ens: Implemented Loure and Agitato arc sustains, and Emotional Slur portamento legato.*
> 10/27/21: *Viola ens: Rearranged default keyswitches to accommodate more articulations.*
> 10/27/21: Viola ens: Adjusted gain levels on some arc sustains.
> 10/27/21: Viola ens: Fixed incorrect keyboard range display.
> 
> 10/26/21: Viola ens: Revised crossfades for some Village and Instinct legato combinations


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## muziksculp

Hi Sarah and Thanks for the Adachi Update. 

So, is this the final tweak ?


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## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> So, is this the final tweak ?


No. Adachi will be unfinished and "in-progress" for a long time, because it's a huge undertaking to wrangle all this material. (That doesn't mean to expect constant updates, either, though -- I work on it when I can and when the motivation strikes, in between other things.)


----------



## Evans

Muziksculp is treating you like they do all the other developers. Is that a badge of honor?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Evans said:


> Muziksculp is treating you like they do all the other developers. Is that a badge of honor?


If he treated her like any other developer, he'd have asked:

"When is the next update? When? When?"


----------



## Batrawi

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> If he treated her like any other developer, he'd have asked:
> 
> "When is the next update? When? When?"


actually it would have been like "when will the rest of the adachi series will be released? woodwinds? brass? percussion? piano? big band? big bang? bang bang..?"


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## Oakran

Well this is amazing, thank you so much for your efforts Sarah !
I'm now almost at peace with my older self who spent a small fortune on Adagio back in the day. I always felt like this library had so much potential... unfortunately severely limited by a number of reasons (too ambitious at the time maybe).
Actually what you did was exactly the kind of update I was expecting from 8dio a few years ago. Instead we got Anthology, an Adagio "remaster" without all the good stuff that made Adagio a gem. I deleted it almost as soon as I finished downloading it.
Now Adagio is working the way it should be, and it's great. Oh boy those round robin legatos sound so smooth, I just spent 1 hour doodling with them.
Thank you again


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## muziksculp

Hi,

Just for fun, here is a short phrase using the Adachi Celli Legato, then CSS Celli Legato, to give you a comparison audio of both, I know Adachi has a lot more Legato variations, but I chose one of the Legatos that I felt is similar to CSS Legato. No EQ used, just a little reverb on both demos, and a limiter on the master output. The CC11, and CC 1 data is very similar, just very minor tweaks for both instruments.

I like the timbre of Adachi Celli better than CSS, I find it richer sounding. Both are wonderful sounding libraries.

Adachi Celli Legato first then CSS Celli Legato

View attachment ADACHI - CSS Celli Legato Test.mp3


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## Sarah Mancuso

Hmm, hearing that makes me think I should try adjusting the cello crossfades again, though it might also sound better with a different legato type used on the shorter notes.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sarah Mancuso said:


> though it might also sound better with a different legato type used on the shorter notes.


I was thinking the same thing.


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## muziksculp

I didn't change any of the legato/sustain types for the Adachi's Celli performance. Just kept the same preset. 

I would still like to see a detailed video tutorial on what the Adachi Interface can offer, and how best to utilize it, and maybe create custom presets for it. But as of now, I have no clue what's going on with all these Legato-Sustain options, what exactly happens when one chooses Sus or Leg type. and which ones are active, or not active, ...etc. ??


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## Pier-V

@muziksculp Thanks for sharing, exposed solo lines are always extremely useful.

To the others: I don't own the Vst so I have to judge things by ear, however a good example of what you're saying should be the transition beetween the third and fourth note. That's a slurred legato, right? Considering the melody profile and the fact that the fourth note is on the strong beat, I guess a bow change would work better. More in general, with bow changes is a lot harder to go wrong (in the worst case scenario the result is at least realistic), while a slurred legato/portamento in the wrong place may have a bad effect on the phrasing (*). I have a question: can you change legato type on the fly in Adachi?

(*) This is a very extreme real life example of what I'm saying, where only bow changes are used, even in fast passages:


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## muziksculp

Pier-V said:


> I have a question: can you change legato type on the fly in Adachi?


Yes, With the Key-Switches. Although as I mentioned above, I would like to learn more on how to customize the legato-sustain options, and save them as new keyswitches in a new preset. also get to understand the mechanics behind the GUI. what's happening ? ... as is I'm confused as to what happens, and how the legatos interact with my playing.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> But as of now, I have no clue what's going on with all these Legato-Sustain options, what exactly happens when one chooses Sus or Leg type. and which ones are active, or not active, ...etc. ??



You can switch types using the red and blue keyswitches, the UI is mostly just for if you want to customize keyswitches or do other setup tweaking. I've included an onscreen description of every legato type to help understand them better at a glance, though I recommend exploring them and letting your ears be the judge.

The sustains for each patch include one or two basic looped sustains and a bunch of Arcs with real performed dynamics swells (think of the Waves in OACE as an example). The sustains have multiple dynamic layers and loop forever (like in most strings libraries!), while the arcs have a defined beginning and end and have a single layer (on which you can still use CC1 filtering to shape a bit). You can stick with the basic sustain for everything if you want, or you can write entirely around the arcs, or just add arcs here and there where they fit best.

For the cellos part you posted, "Cantabile", "Agitato Expressivo", or "Fast Feathered" could be legato types worth trying for the shorter notes. At this point I have enough of a sense of what's_ likely_ to work for a given part, but I still usually just try a couple things out and see which combination actually works best in practice.



Pier-V said:


> I have a question: can you change legato type on the fly in Adachi?


Yup! The clips I've posted generally have a good amount of legato switching going on. You can have a different legato type on every note if you want to.


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## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> Although as I mentioned above, I would like to learn more on how to customize the legato-sustain options, and save them as new keyswitches in a new preset. also get to understand the mechanics behind the GUI. what's happening ? ... as is I'm confused as to what happens, and how the legatos interact with my playing.


The keyswitch builder (the big list) shows what everything is currently mapped to. When a keyswitch is selected, the keyswitch builder will automatically scroll to its position in the list. From there you can see which legato type and/or sustain type is mapped to that key, what key it is, and whether there are additional requirements (velocity or speed) for that switch row.

You can kind of think of each keyswitch as like an entire separate preset that you can switch between at will. One keyswitch can have a few legato types of your choosing mapped to different velocities and/or speeds, and another keyswitch can have a completely different selection, etc.

In practice, I do most of my writing with the keyswitch that's selected by default in each patch. While the exact selections available differ for each instrument, this is usually something along the lines of:
Soft portamento or portamento-like transitions at the lowest velocities.
Village and Instinct (MP and MF bow change transitions with RRs) around the middle velocities.
Agitato Expressivo agile slurs in the vicinity of velocity 100.
Dramatic/ornate transitions (such as Cantabile or ET) at the highest velocities.
Fast Feathered automatically activating when you play quickly enough at any velocity level.

And then I might occasionally keyswitch to another legato that isn't included in that stack. But most of my keyswitching is usually just to switch between different sustain types.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

muziksculp said:


> Yes, With the Key-Switches. Although as I mentioned above, I would like to learn more on how to customize the legato-sustain options, and save them as new keyswitches in a new preset. also get to understand the mechanics behind the GUI. what's happening ? ... as is I'm confused as to what happens, and how the legatos interact with my playing.


The way i look at it is there 3 sections of keyswitchs. The red keys in the middle are the sustains you typically use on the 1st note of a leg patch(the starting note). Or you can play them as sustain if you disable legato etc. The blue keys on the left side are the legato options. The keys on the right side are performance patch which is a mix of legatos articulation that are triggered by either velocity or speed etc. I recommend you use those. They work similarly to CSS.

edited: sorry i mixed my right and left side again. Also, i know it's not the whole story but it's good start.


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## muziksculp

@Sarah Mancuso ,

Thanks for the explanations, and tips on Adachi's Interface. 

Here is a pic of the Adachi Celli Legato preset I used in the demo. 

so, when I play a note repeatedly I notice that the legato type also changes automatically, what determines this behavior ? Dynamics ? or ... ? 

Some Rows have Legato but no Sustain selected. So, how is the sustain part assigned to them ? 

Some Rows have Sustain, but No Legato, does that mean there is no legato transitions available, just sustains for that key-switch ? 

I hope I'm not overloading you with questions, but I would like to decipher what I'm staring at.  

Thanks


----------



## Evans

muziksculp said:


> Some Rows have Legato but no Sustain selected. So, how is the sustain part assigned to them ?
> 
> Some Rows have Sustain, but No Legato, does that mean there is no legato transitions available, just sustains for that key-switch ?


I am not Sarah, but is it perhaps that the patch loads with legato type 1 and sustain type 11 selected, and that you can select different legato types AND/OR sustain types independently in order to pair them together to your liking?

That is, using C#-2 and C#-1 here would give you "Instinct" legato and the 2dyn Agitato sustain paired together?

In other words, Sarah gave you ten legato types to matrix with two sustain types here.

From the original post:


> In Adachi, blue keyswitches change legato types, red keyswitches change sustain types


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

The keys that only have legato or only have sustain mapped is because you can set legato type and sustain type independently (using blue and red keys). If you press a blue key to change legato type, your current sustain settings will remain active, and vice versa. And purple keys will change both at once.

You can play legato with any sustain type, and you can use any sustain type with any legato type. Just select one that sounds interesting and try playing, it's easier and more fulfilling than trying to explain in words.



> so, when I play a note repeatedly I notice that the legato type also changes automatically, what determines this behavior ? Dynamics ? or ... ?


The keyswitch builder shows what's mapped to different velocities and speeds, you can see and modify what causes the switches there.

If you don't want the velocity/speed based "performance" approach, you can just use the blue keyswitches on the left, which are there to give more direct keyswitch access to every legato type. (Though a few of those still have a couple of related legato types mapped to low and high velocities. Mousing over them on the onscreen keyboard will show you exactly what's mapped to each one.)



Evans said:


> I am not Sarah, but is it perhaps that the patch loads with legato type 1 and sustain type 11 selected, and that you can select different legato types AND/OR sustain types independently?


That's exactly right.


----------



## Evans

Side note: I'm a V8P member, having purchased a fair few 8Dio libraries before, yet I didn't have any of these qualifying libraries.

I picked up everything needed for it and installed Adachi earlier today. I'm having the least regrets of any 8Dio purchase to-date. I usually end up with mixed opinions at best, but hey, there are usually a few usable patches for $48 or whatever the price of library-x is at the time.

This whole package was definitely worth it with Adachi.

(and yes, I've already made a bandcamp purchase and will PayPal a little more once I get into it further!)


----------



## ScarletJerry

So I got several of the Adachi patches to load, but the not *the ensemble and chamber violas and cellos.* I also cannot get the *Violin Ensemble* patch to load. I don't own the arpeggios package, so I think that Kontakt is getting stuck on that and doesn't try to load the rest of the samples. I wish there was a way to disable those.

I am excited to play the other patches though. Nice work Sarah!

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

ScarletJerry said:


> So I got several of the Adachi patches to load, but the not *the ensemble and chamber violas and cellos.* I also cannot get the *Violin Ensemble* patch to load. I don't own the arpeggios package, so I think that Kontakt is getting stuck on that and doesn't try to load the rest of the samples. I wish there was a way to disable those.
> 
> I am excited to play the other patches though. Nice work Sarah!
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Hmmm. The chamber sections don't use anything from Agitato Arpeggio, so I'm not sure what's going on with that one. The ensemble sections (other than the basses) do use Arpeggio content, though. Earlier in this thread, some advice was posted on using symlinks to point Kontakt to all the samples that you do have. You can also "just" copy the relevant libraries that you do have into one Samples folder, following the usual Kontakt instrument folder structure. With either of those methods, Kontakt should be able to find everything you have without getting stuck on what you don't have.



Evans said:


> Side note: I'm a V8P member, having purchased a fair few 8Dio libraries before, yet I didn't have any of these qualifying libraries.
> 
> I picked up everything needed for it and installed Adachi earlier today. I'm having the least regrets of any 8Dio purchase to-date. I usually end up with mixed opinions at best, but hey, there are usually a few usable patches for $48 or whatever the price of library-x is at the time.
> 
> This whole package was definitely worth it with Adachi.
> 
> (and yes, I've already made a bandcamp purchase and will PayPal a little more once I get into it further)


Thank you very much, along with everyone else who's donated! I sincerely appreciate it.

I'm really happy to hear you're liking it so far. And I think I know exactly what you mean -- I feel like 8Dio has a lot of "almost-but-not-quite-there" libraries that could be really excellent with some more polishing, and something about Adagio in particular just really called out to me.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

the only thing i don't understand is how one control the crossfade between the legato and the sus. But i guess that's done automatically...


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> the only thing i don't understand is how one control the crossfade between the legato and the sus. But i guess that's done automatically...


"Automatically", well... kinda : )
I've spent a bunch of time setting up crossfade settings for each possible combination. If you want to finetune one, open the Dev Settings view. It's not really intended for general use, so it's not organized or particularly friendly, but I did put in tooltips explaining what each control does when you mouse over it. If you're editing a particular combination, make sure the "Global" button is off, so that you don't inadvertently edit other types at the same time.

The most important controls are Sustain Attack (length of sustain fadein), Sustain Delay (delay before sustain starts to fade in), and Sustain Curve (affects the curve of the sustain fadein). "Fade Time" is a bit of a misnomer since it only actually affects how quickly that legato type fades out if a new note is played before the transition is completed.

But again, I don't really recommend doing this. It's a rabbit hole you can easily get lost in all year.

Some combinations will inherently work better than others, though I think all or nearly all of them should be usable. If there are any that seem like they _should_ work well but don't sound quite right, let me know and I'll see if I can improve it further. (Though I'd hope that there are enough types in there that you can find one that works for your needs!)


----------



## ScarletJerry

Thanks Sarah. I also forgot to mention that I have the Agitado Grandiose Legato for the violins, but not the violas or cellos. I guess I can't use the Adachi patches without those. Now I have to think about whether it is worth it for me to get them.

I have Anthology, which is supposed to have those legatos, as well as Vista, BBCSO Core, Soaring Strings, and CSS, so I'm not sure if it makes sense to pick up those two Grandiose Legatos as well. If you didn't make Adachi, I wouldn't even consider getting them. 

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

One more question regarding a detail when using Adachi.

Let's say I have a three note motif, played legato, then I would like to repeat the last note I played, but not legato, just a repetition, I find it hard to play the fourth note, (the repetition note) in a fast attack manner, so it's triggered right away when I want to have it sound, there is a lot of delay, or slow attack before it sounds. What's the best way to deal with this scenario in Adachi ?

Thanks.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

The Agitato Sustain has a quicker attack than the standard Sustain, so that might work. Or drawing in some CC automation without actually replaying the note.

Adagio didn’t have same-note rebowing, but I am currently exploring possibilities for adding this to Adachi in the future using parts of the “loure” samples.


----------



## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Adagio didn’t have same-note rebowing, but I am currently exploring possibilities for adding this to Adachi in the future using parts of the “loure” samples.


Yes, no rebowing in Adagio is the problem. It will be wonderful if you can explore the possibility of making this possible in Adachi. 

THANKS


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

ScarletJerry said:


> Thanks Sarah. I also forgot to mention that I have the Agitado Grandiose Legato for the violins, but not the violas or cellos. I guess I can't use the Adachi patches without those. Now I have to think about whether it is worth it for me to get them.
> 
> I have Anthology, which is supposed to have those legatos, as well as Vista, BBCSO Core, Soaring Strings, and CSS, so I'm not sure if it makes sense to pick up those two Grandiose Legatos as well. If you didn't make Adachi, I wouldn't even consider getting them.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


If you have Adagio Legacy and Anthology, it should be possible to load Adachi with some articulations missing, if you use the symlink trick EvilDragon mentioned earlier in this thread or just move/copy all the libraries you do have into one folder to point Kontakt to. (Note that I don't have any way to make the missing artics automatically disappear from the lists, so they just won't play if you try them.)


----------



## WindcryMusic

Sarah Mancuso said:


> The keys that only have legato or only have sustain mapped is because you can set legato type and sustain type independently (using blue and red keys). If you press a blue key to change legato type, your current sustain settings will remain active, and vice versa. And purple keys will change both at once.
> 
> You can play legato with any sustain type, and you can use any sustain type with any legato type. Just select one that sounds interesting and try playing, it's easier and more fulfilling than trying to explain in words.
> 
> 
> The keyswitch builder shows what's mapped to different velocities and speeds, you can see and modify what causes the switches there.
> 
> If you don't want the velocity/speed based "performance" approach, you can just use the blue keyswitches on the left, which are there to give more direct keyswitch access to every legato type. (Though a few of those still have a couple of related legato types mapped to low and high velocities. Mousing over them on the onscreen keyboard will show you exactly what's mapped to each one.)



This should be very helpful info indeed, thank you! I had no idea that legato and sustain types could be selected independently and combined. That was undoubtedly a part of my confusion with the UI.


----------



## Pablocrespo

Thanks for the update Sarah, the load and save functions were crucial for updating all my modified patches!

If you take feature request, it would be nice if the shorts could be available too, just as they are with no modifications to avoid lots of works, but it could be useful to have a unified patch with everything to use with expression maps!

Also, I have found that the violas chamber patch has something strange happening with the releases, maybe is user error but just wanted to let you know.

All I can say is that I have Century strings waiting to be downloaded and still haven´t found a reason to do it!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Pablocrespo said:


> Thanks for the update Sarah, the load and save functions were crucial for updating all my modified patches!
> 
> If you take feature request, it would be nice if the shorts could be available too, just as they are with no modifications to avoid lots of works, but it could be useful to have a unified patch with everything to use with expression maps!
> 
> Also, I have found that the violas chamber patch has something strange happening with the releases, maybe is user error but just wanted to let you know.
> 
> All I can say is that I have Century strings waiting to be downloaded and still haven´t found a reason to do it!


Adding the shorts is a lot of work even without doing other cleanup to them, unfortunately... I tried it with the ensemble violins a while back and gave up because it was just very time-consuming. So many groups to copy over one at a time (as there's no way to batch-copy mods and envelopes to existing groups, I copy over the sample mappings themselves, rather than being able to select all relevant groups and drop them in). Having non-legato artics also made the keyswitching system a lot more confusing to explain, since "you can play legato with anything" was no longer true.

What's going on with the viola releases? If you can describe it, it'll help.

And I'm glad that the keyswitch loading was useful!


----------



## Living Fossil

Sarah Mancuso said:


> And I'm glad that the keyswitch loading was useful!


Hello @Sarah Mancuso , I'm not sure if i still have the actual version also concerning keyswitches.

However, when trying out Adachi Violins for the first time, i saw that the keyswitches start at the lowest
midi notes in existence and spread over several octaves, with white areas.

Now i have a Stream Deck where i have assigned some low notes for keyswitches, but besides, i just have a regular 88 keyboard.
My impression is that it would be doable to get all playable notes and all keyswitches in the area of 88 keys.
Was there a specific reason for the layout of the assigned keyswitches?
Have they a meaning that would be destroyed when changing them (e.g. on the level of the scripting),
or would this be doable?

Sorry, if this question was brought up already, i haven't read all contributions in this thread.

And of course, thanks again for doing this! it's such a great effort and terrific result!


----------



## Pablocrespo

No problem, I will add the sorts patch and toggle them via midi!

I will try to record a viola line and upload it here, it is in the chamber patch


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Living Fossil said:


> Hello @Sarah Mancuso , I'm not sure if i still have the actual version also concerning keyswitches.
> 
> However, when trying out Adachi Violins for the first time, i saw that the keyswitches start at the lowest
> midi notes in existence and spread over several octaves, with white areas.
> 
> Now i have a Stream Deck where i have assigned some low notes for keyswitches, but besides, i just have a regular 88 keyboard.
> My impression is that it would be doable to get all playable notes and all keyswitches in the area of 88 keys.
> Was there a specific reason for the layout of the assigned keyswitches?
> Have they a meaning that would be destroyed when changing them (e.g. on the level of the scripting),
> or would this be doable?
> 
> Sorry, if this question was brought up already, i haven't read all contributions in this thread.
> 
> And of course, thanks again for doing this! it's such a great effort and terrific result!


Personally, I would recommend using the keyswitches in the sequencer, rather than trying to perform using them. Though you can do that if you'd like:

If you want to set up your own custom keyswitch mappings, you can use the Key column of the keyswitch builder UI to manually change which notes they're mapped to. (You can either type in a note name or drag up/down to adjust.) Note that once you're done editing, you may possibly need to click the Sort button to make velocity/speed based switches behave properly, due to a longstanding bug.

You can then use the bottom-right buttons to save your keyswitch list to a file and load it after installing an Adachi update, so that you can keep your custom settings.

I put them starting from the bottom in my default mappings because there are a lot of them to make room for, and because it makes it easy to know where to start looking when adding one. They're split by octaves because there are different categories of keyswitches, so if you want to pick a sustain type you can always start at the beginning of the next octave after the legatos, etc.


----------



## Living Fossil

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Personally, I would recommend using the keyswitches in the sequencer, rather than trying to perform using them. Though you can do that if you'd like:


I use them anyway in the sequencer, but usually via step input played on my keyboard after i recorded a part (or the stream desk if the keyswitch notes are lower and can't be changed)

But thanks a lot for the additional info, it helps me to get a better insight of the concept.

It's possible that i'll set up a Stream Deck menu for the lowest octave instead of changing them.
But first i will try to get a better understanding of the whole setup.


----------



## Jeff Tymoschuk

Holy cow Sarah, this all is really amazing, thanks so much for the fantastic gift!


----------



## Project Anvil

@Sarah Mancuso thank you very much for making this. And also thanks to @djDarkX for making the installation tutorial.

I hate to admit this but I had never really given 8dio a good look and when I did look the demos often weren't up my alley because I don't enjoy the produced hybrid sound. Additionally, from what walkthroughs I'd heard I had always noticed the stereo ping-ponging effect. Those two reasons and the sheer amount of products all kept me away.

But because of Adachi I made use of the $8 crossgrade and now have the legacy adagio libraries installed. I have to say the wealth of articulations is mind blowing. Up to now I thought pretty much no one had done dynamics bowings beyond maybe some afterthought patches. I'm very glad to be wrong! Even beyond adachi itself these patches are so useful for the layering/track-per-articulation nutjob type because they allow me to have many more kinds of attacks and releases which, to me anyway, are often a dead giveaway of any (strings) mockup.

So thanks, not just for Adachi, but for exposing me to these libraries which I would've otherwise ignored. I'll be sure to make a donation once my savings account has recovered from the 8dio shopping spree that just occured.


----------



## A minor

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just got to hear one of the patches, ADACHI Vlns Ens. Legato, and they sound amazing, (THANKS Sarah), it takes a while to scan the Adagio Samples, then Agitato Samples, the resave the patch, for each of the ADACHI Patches.
> 
> Is there any additional documentation on ADACHI i.e. kind of a condensed user's manual ?
> 
> I have to continue loading, and scanning the remaining patches of ADACHI. I'm delighted with the sound already.
> 
> @Sarah Mancuso , I donated a small token of my appreciation, to Thank You for this fantastic effort, and time you spent working on this project, and deciding to share it with this community. Your are super cool, and very talented.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp
> 
> Here is a pic of ADACHI Vlns Ensemble Legato Patch, I don't think anyone posted how it looks in Kontakt


Musiksculp,
I'm trying to understand how to install, just got somewhere similar to where your pic shows but I noticed that my Memory loaded equals 5.53G compared to your 3.06G. I wonder why?
Did re-upload Sarah's latest version. This has been very confusing to me. I'm not at all very familiar with the full version of Kontakt. I've been using Kontakt player for the last year and had to make the jump to buy from companies like 8DIO. Following Sarah's silent movie got me lost. Somewhere between what poster Ricgus3, ScarletJerry and Obi-Wan said I got this installed. And I can play it while making changes by the far left blue keyswitches. Beautiful.

So do I need to do the same with the other 12 NKis that exist in Adachi?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

A minor said:


> Musiksculp,
> I'm trying to understand how to install, just got somewhere similar to where your pic shows but I noticed that my Memory loaded equals 5.53G compared to your 3.06G. I wonder why?
> Did re-upload Sarah's latest version. This has been very confusing to me. I'm not at all very familiar with the full version of Kontakt. I've been using Kontakt player for the last year and had to make the jump to buy from companies like 8DIO. Following Sarah's silent movie got me lost. Somewhere between what poster Ricgus3, ScarletJerry and Obi-Wan said I got this installed. And I can play it while making changes by the far left blue keyswitches. Beautiful.
> 
> So do I need to do the same with the other 12 NKis that exist in Adachi?



Try djdarkX's video on using symlinks. With this, you should be able to just set things up once and not have to do it again for every nki.

And that RAM usage is very high, I'm not sure what's going on there. The violins ensemble is only 0.85GB for me.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @A minor ,

Kontakt can be confusing, I know. I'm not an expert either, but manage to deal with it.

I just deleted the older NKI files, and replaced them with the latest ones that Sarah posted. Then I load each NKI, one at a time and when it tells me samples are not found, just use the select folder option to point to the samples folder that contains them for Adagio, and then again for Agitato. Some of the NKI's do not use Agitato Samples. 

You are basically doing a Re-Save function, you need to save each NKI file again, so you won't have an issue loading it next time, basically you are doing a batch-resave function, but manually. I think you can also do a Batch-Resave, but I prefer doing it manually to make sure all is good. There are 13 NKI files, so it didn't take that long.

Regarding the Amount of RAM loaded in your patch, I'm not sure why it is using more RAM ? Maybe Sarah knows. or just follow my instructions above, and see what happens.

Hope this helps you. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## A minor

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Try djdarkX's video on using symlinks. With this, you should be able to just set things up once and not have to do it again for every nki.
> 
> And that RAM usage is very high, I'm not sure what's going on there. The violins ensemble is only 0.85GB for me.


Sarah,
I did look at his video but it was tailored for Windows and I'm on a MAC. Could my memory load be so big because I did what someone else suggested and just put your folder inside my entire 8DIO folder. There is a lot of there.






Thank you Sarah for your consideration.

Am


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

A minor said:


> Sarah,
> I did look at his video but it was tailored for Windows and I'm on a MAC. Could my memory load be so big because I did what someone else suggested and just put your folder inside my entire 8DIO folder. There is a lot of there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Sarah for your consideration.
> 
> Am


Hmm, that still doesn’t explain the high RAM usage. It should only be loading the samples that are actually used.

What happens if you disable the Mix mic and then re-enable it? Does RAM usage go down to 0 (or close to it) while all mics are disabled?


----------



## A minor

I further noticed that the bottom left corner of Kontakt says "Total Sample Size: 41.00 GB" for just the violin ensemble legato


----------



## A minor

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Hmm, that still doesn’t explain the high RAM usage. It should only be loading the samples that are actually used.
> 
> What happens if you disable the Mix mic and then re-enable it? Does RAM usage go down to 0 (or close to it) while all mics are disabled?


Yes, Sarah disabling Mix mic does drop it to zero and then when I re-able it it only goes up to 1.54 GB






So what is the proceed to save this correctly?

And thank you Sarah for the suggestion.

Am


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

A minor said:


> Yes, Sarah disabling Mix mic does drop it to zero and then when I re-able it it only goes up to 1.54 GB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what is the proceed to save this correctly?
> 
> And thank you Sarah for the suggestion.
> 
> Am


That’s very strange and I’m not sure why it’s happening, but if you save the patch afterwards I think it should load normally with only that amount of RAM used next time.


----------



## A minor

Sarah Mancuso said:


> That’s very strange and I’m not sure why it’s happening, but if you save the patch afterwards I think it should load normally with only that amount of RAM used next time.


Sarah, is it sufficient to just save changes to the instrument by selecting the little "x" on the upper right hand corner or do I need to use that bigger disk save icon in the center top bar of Kontakt?


----------



## jbuhler

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Try djdarkX's video on using symlinks. With this, you should be able to just set things up once and not have to do it again for every nki.
> 
> And that RAM usage is very high, I'm not sure what's going on there. The violins ensemble is only 0.85GB for me.


It's .69GB for me at 18kb dfd preload buffer, and I'm on a Mac.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

A minor said:


> Sarah, is it sufficient to just save changes to the instrument by selecting the little "x" on the upper right hand corner or do I need to use that bigger disk save icon in the center top bar of Kontakt?


You need to use the actual save button in order to save changes, yes.


----------



## A minor

Sarah Mancuso said:


> You need to use the actual save button in order to save changes, yes.


okay, 
Wow that is compressing and writing 11253 samples


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

A minor said:


> okay,
> Wow that is compressing and writing 11253 samples


Whoops. In the save dialog, uncheck the box that resaves the samples, and it’ll only save the NKI file itself.


----------



## A minor

I don't see that option


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

A minor said:


> I don't see that option


It should be in the dialog itself that comes up after you pick save from the menu.


----------



## A minor

Sarah Mancuso said:


> It should be in the dialog itself that comes up after you pick save from the menu.


I don't see it, sorry.
I touched the little "x" in the upper right hand corner to see what options it would give me and this time it just closed my instrument without warning.
So when I relaunch the NKI I get this window again.
How best to answer all of the options:
select: 
- resolve all possible
- check for duplicates

If I select "ignore this time" then I will have to face this again.


----------



## A minor

To wrap up my little dilemma, I chose to resolve if possible and to check for duplicates. It sped through the 11253 files quickly enough and gave me repeated choses of which files I want to keep. Thinking there were all just duplicated I haphazardly made my choices. Then it was satisfied but it reloaded the 5+GB figure into memory. So I disabled the Mix mic and it took it down only several GBs. But when I re-enabled the Mix mic it reset the memory to zero and then only loaded 1.54GB. At that point I saved the instrument using the little 'x' on the upper right hand corner. Once it closes and I re-select it to load all is fine. No files to search and my memory load is just 1.54GB.

Thank you Sarah. Thank you Sarah. Your willing to help I appreciate. I don't mean to take of your time off of the worthy project. 

Am


----------



## william81723

Sarah....because of you,I just bought Adagio and Agitato and played the instrument you made.
I'm really surprised and I don't regret buying them at all.
It's beyond my imagination....
I look forward to your improvement in the future.
Thanks for sharing your talent and your great effort.


----------



## freecham

A minor said:


> I don't see it, sorry.
> I touched the little "x" in the upper right hand corner to see what options it would give me and this time it just closed my instrument without warning.
> So when I relaunch the NKI I get this window again.
> How best to answer all of the options:
> select:
> - resolve all possible
> - check for duplicates
> 
> If I select "ignore this time" then I will have to face this again.


I'm under Windows but it must be the same on macOS.


----------



## djDarkX

The high RAM on the patch happened to me when I had to skip samples for the patch to load. After I purchased all the required stuff, it showed 1.53GB (on Violins). I think it may be a bug with how Kontakt handles patches missing samples or bypassing them.

ALSO, for those that don't know, Sarah has been working on rebows using the Loures included in the libraries. Please excuse the terrible composing. I'm not good at it at all, but wanted to showcase them. There's a lot more rebowing than you may actually hear because they blend in like that, but here they are. This shows off normal legatos, a couple of portamentos on the violins and rebowing on all the sections. These are ensembles only as she has only released them for ensembles currently. No need to manually activate them. All I had to do was make sure the notes were connected in the DAW and they were automatic.


----------



## Evans

That's so cool! Thanks for posting. I know other libraries coming out soon are wildly different, but Adachi fulfilling the "shiny new object" desire might keep me from making too many new, unnecessary purchases this quarter. 

I've got plenty of VIs as is, but sometimes you just want a different sound to break through the doldrums, right? Plus, Adachi plays wonderfully. Maybe the best user contribution to VI-C I've ever seen.


----------



## ip20

Amazing work Sarah. A labor of love and it shows. Your work on this and demo have certainly put this library on my wishlist.

Seems like string devs need to hire you for string sample programming.


----------



## ism

Freespace2 said:


> 8dio should seriously consider hiring you as a kontakt scripter and if it happen, I have no doubt that all of 8dio's products will be dramatically improved.


Perhaps. But I would strongly advocate that plan A should be more like: Sarah starts her own sample company, takes over the world, buys 8dio just for fun. Or some such.

Fabulous work Sarah. 

(And respect to Troels, Colin and 8dio for first the amazing vision that went into in capturing these samples, and second for their embrace and recognition of the passion and virtuosic talent that Sarah brings to the community with Adachi).


----------



## muziksculp

djDarkX said:


> The high RAM on the patch happened to me when I had to skip samples for the patch to load. After I purchased all the required stuff, it showed 1.53GB (on Violins). I think it may be a bug with how Kontakt handles patches missing samples or bypassing them.
> 
> ALSO, for those that don't know, Sarah has been working on rebows using the Loures included in the libraries. Please excuse the terrible composing. I'm not good at it at all, but wanted to showcase them. There's a lot more rebowing than you may actually hear because they blend in like that, but here they are. This shows off normal legatos, a couple of portamentos on the violins and rebowing on all the sections. These are ensembles only as she has only released them for ensembles currently. No need to manually activate them. All I had to do was make sure the notes were connected in the DAW and they were automatic.


Hi @djDarkX ,

Yes, a Rebow is very much missing in the current version of Adachi. Sarah mentioned she will be adding this, so... are the violins with Rebow all done, since you have posted a demo using them ?

Sounds very good. (THANKS) .

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

On Discord I've posted a dev build with rebowing for all four ensemble sections. I haven't added it to the chamber or solo instruments yet. Been busy dealing with another interesting unexpected development instead...


----------



## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> On Discord I've posted a dev build with rebowing for all four ensemble sections. I haven't added it to the chamber or solo instruments yet. Been busy dealing with another interesting unexpected development instead...


Thanks, I don't mind waiting until you have everything ready, and post the updates.


----------



## djDarkX

Sarah is correct. The rebows were done across all the ensembles. They are pretty good. Did not need to layer in ANY shorts. They were automatic as long as the notes were the same and connected. No overlapping needed either. Here's an example picture:


----------



## muziksculp

So how are the Rebows triggered ? automatically when you repeat a note ? or ... ?


----------



## djDarkX

Yes. No need to trigger them. As long as the note is repeated and connected using an Adachi patch, they become rebows. At least that's the way it works right now. Not sure if she will be changing the way that works, but for, it works nicely this way.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

It'll remain automatic like this, yes.


----------



## muziksculp

Thank You @Sarah Mancuso , and @djDarkX for your feedback. 

Looking forward to Adachi Rebow patches.


----------



## ScarletJerry

I'm about to pull the trigger on my three missing Agitato instruments (violas, cellos and arpeggios) only because of Sarah's Adachi project. If Adachi did not exist, are these libraries worth getting anyway at the current heavy discount? I already have Adagio, Anthology, the other Agitatos (violin, sordinos), Adagietto, CS2, CSS, Soaring Strings, BBSCO core and Vista. Are my three potential Agitato instrument purchases worth it? Will they give me anything that I am currently missing? My GAS is strong - help me VI-Control, you're my only hope!

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## ScarletJerry

@Sarah Mancuso ”Been busy dealing with another interesting unexpected development instead...” can only mean one thing - congratulations on your new position at 8Dio!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

ScarletJerry said:


> @Sarah Mancuso ”Been busy dealing with another interesting unexpected development instead...” can only mean one thing - congratulations on your new position at 8Dio!


Hahaha, it's not that. Though I have recently taken a position at a _different_ VI developer, my post above was about something more directly relevant to Adachi:

Adagio Cellos 1.5 includes a full sample set for four (!) unused types of legato. Three for the ensemble section (Dolente, Placido, and Sotto), and one for the chamber section (Solenne). They're all recorded around an MP dynamic, which makes them a nice contrast to the others in Adagio Cellos which are mostly recorded at MF and F. I have no idea how or why this happened, but needless to say I've been working on implementing them in Adachi. It's been slow going since I'm starting from scratch rather than having an existing mapping of the samples to refine from, but I've got rough playable versions of Dolente and Placido in a dev build after a few days of work.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Hahaha, it's not that. Though I have recently taken a position at a _different_ VI developer, my post above was about something more directly relevant to Adachi:
> 
> Adagio Cellos 1.5 includes a full sample set for four (!) unused types of legato. Three for the ensemble section (Dolente, Placido, and Sotto), and one for the chamber section (Solenne). They're all recorded around an MP dynamic, which makes them a nice contrast to the others in Adagio Cellos which are mostly recorded at MF and F. I have no idea how or why this happened, but needless to say I've been working on implementing them in Adachi. It's been slow going since I'm starting from scratch rather than having an existing mapping of the samples to refine from, but I've got rough playable versions of Dolente and Placido in a dev build after a few days of work.


What? So we have those samples, but they were never accessible before? That is like finding buried treasure!

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

ScarletJerry said:


> What? So we have those samples, but they were never accessible before? That is like finding buried treasure!
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


My feelings exactly. As soon as I found out they were there, I knew I had to try doing something with them.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I have come late to the party. But I can only echo everything already said here. Thank you very much for the generosity and time spent labouring away on these samples and patches.

I love the Adagio + Agitato Strings! Cannot wait to find out what lies ahead with these expressive libraries

I have gone to Anthology and the v2 Adagio's since they came out, but I am going to dig back into these for sure!

Thank you once again, what a labour of love


----------



## Project Anvil

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Adagio Cellos 1.5 includes a full sample set for four (!) unused types of legato.


Whew! It really seems like the Cello ensemble was given the most attention since it also has all the trills. I'm especially excited for the Placido legato, I listened to some of the samples and it sounds really useful. I might have to top up on my donation once those are released (no pressure though! I'm already blessed with what's there now).

@Troels Folmann I realize you must be very busy, but if you ever find the time to share more details about the development of Adagio, I'd really love to hear it all! Not just to know why there are unused samples, but also why you decided to do multiple kinds/attitudes of legato. It seems totally obvious to me now that you would, but to be honest I've not seen many other products do that before or since, at least not to the extent on display here.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Project Anvil said:


> Whew! It really seems like the Cello ensemble was given the most attention since it also has all the trills. I'm especially excited for the Placido legato, I listened to some of the samples and it sounds really useful. I might have to top up on my donation once those are released (no pressure though! I'm already blessed with what's there now).
> 
> @Troels Folmann I realize you must be very busy, but if you ever find the time to share more details about the development of Adagio, I'd really love to hear it all! Not just to know why there are unused samples, but also why you decided to do multiple kinds/attitudes of legato. It seems totally obvious to me now that you would, but to be honest I've not seen many other products do that before or since, at least not to the extent on display here.


Check out this thread. Collin and Troels both discuss the development of the libraries In different posts.






Adagietto or Anthology Strings


No. Agitato is it's own separate product line, albeit with a similar aesthetic. Anthology is a reduced (in articulations), but much more focused and 'clean' compilation of what 8DIO seem to have felt were the most useful/useable of the original Adagio libraries. It does a pretty good job of...




vi-control.net


----------



## pipedr

So excited about this! I upgraded to Kontakt 6 just so I could use it. I have used Adagio and Agitato a lot, and the different legatos and dynamic bowings are a standout feature. But a huge limitation of the enormous potential of the library was that you could not switch to a different legato mid-phrase (I have a patch where I loaded different legatos assigned to different MIDI channels, but the first note played is always a sustain), and you could not play many of the dynamic bows with legato transitions. Also, there's no re-bow articulation (I would try to mimic this by starting a sustain from a different midi channel).

I've only had a chance to play a little with the violins ensemble patch. Let me see if I understand what we've got: In the first 13 rows seem to be the legato transitions from Adagio (i.e. Village, Instinct, Dolce, ET...) and Agitato (Agitato Portamento, Agitato Expressivo 1...). The next 16 rows seem to be a collection of sustains and dynamic bowings from Adagio and Agitato (i.e. Looped Sustain, Looped Sustain Agitato, Arc P-MP Expressivo...). I believe that Adachi allows one to switch independently from these choices such that it will play the legato transition from any of the 13 legato choices, and then the bowing from any of the 16 sustain choices. This makes a 13 x 16 = 208 choices of legato transition+sustain combinations!!! Is this correct? 

One thing I note is that the Adagio looped sustain in Adachi has 3 dynamic layers, whereas in Adagio, the sustains have 4 dynamic layers?

Also, Adagio has natural sustains, non-vibrato sustains, and vibrato sustains. I am not sure which ones were used in Adachi?

Also, I am not sure how the sustains relate to the nomenclature in the originals. For example, in main Agitato Violins Ensemble patch, there would be Sustain X-Fade, Gentle, Gentle Detached, Medium, Strong, Mancini 1, and Mancini 2. Then, there are two separate patches of dynamic bows. I don't believe that all of these dynamic bows are incorporated into Adachi?

THANKS, @Sarah Mancuso


----------



## synthetic

Adding one more in the chorus of thank yous. This was my main library for years, but I eventually moved away from it because of the legato speed inconsistencies and getting buried in tweaking to make it sound right. This is now effortless to play, thank you. 

If people are still having problems setting it up, I put all of my Adagio and Adachi folders in one 8dio Strings folder. I opened an Adachi ensemble, pointed it to the 8dio Strings folder, and let it search there. It takes a minute or two but it finds everything that way. (I couldn't make her mapping video trick work but this did.) Then resave the instrument when it's finished loading. 

When you start out, stick to the purple keyswitches and think of them as different styles of legato. More aggressive, portamento, etc. That's really all you need to touch in the interface. 

After that, the first thing you might want to change is the sustain sound (red keyswitches), since some of the defaults use arcs that fade out after a second or two. If you hit the lowest red sustain keyswitch, that's usually a looped sustain sound. Then you can play with the blue keyswitches to hear the different legato transition sounds. Or hit a purple one to reset back to where you started. 

I can't wait to hear the repeated Loure samples, that was what I always hoped would be added to the library. Thanks so much.


----------



## synthetic

pipedr said:


> Also, I am not sure how the sustains relate to the nomenclature in the originals. For example, in main Agitato Violins Ensemble patch, there would be Sustain X-Fade, Gentle, Gentle Detached, Medium, Strong, Mancini 1, and Mancini 2. Then, there are two separate patches of dynamic bows. I don't believe that all of these dynamic bows are incorporated into Adachi?


The first list ("Sustain X-Fade, ... Mancini 2") are note endings for Agitato Legatos. The Dynamic Bows aren't legato, they're sustain patches (and SO NICE to play.) I always put the Dyn Bows on a seperate MIDI channel from the legatos, they're like sustains but with a dynamic arc.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

pipedr said:


> This makes a 13 x 16 = 208 choices of legato transition+sustain combinations!!! Is this correct?


That's correct! It was a lot of work setting them all up, haha. (And in the ensemble violins, there are actually even _more_ sustain options that just aren't all mapped by default -- 26 in total!)



pipedr said:


> One thing I note is that the Adagio looped sustain in Adachi has 3 dynamic layers, whereas in Adagio, the sustains have 4 dynamic layers?


Adagio's legato patches only made use of its upper two dynamic layers. Its non-legato sustains have a varying amount from one section to the next, and I'm aiming to use 3 for my legato patches. In some cases that added lowest dynamic is already a little bit of a stretch for the higher-dynamic legato samples to match to (via filtering), but I wanted to add that lower dynamic where possible because it allows for a lot more expression. (Some of the older Adachi patches are currently only using 2 for their primary sustain, like the corresponding Adagio patches. I'd like to eventually improve upon this where possible.)



pipedr said:


> Also, Adagio has natural sustains, non-vibrato sustains, and vibrato sustains. I am not sure which ones were used in Adachi?


I'm using vibrato and non-vibrato samples where possible, with crossfading between them. There are some older patches that don't yet have vibrato control implemented even though the samples exist, and there are some where the samples just don't exist at all.



pipedr said:


> Also, I am not sure how the sustains relate to the nomenclature in the originals. For example, in main Agitato Violins Ensemble patch, there would be Sustain X-Fade, Gentle, Gentle Detached, Medium, Strong, Mancini 1, and Mancini 2. Then, there are two separate patches of dynamic bows. I don't believe that all of these dynamic bows are incorporated into Adachi?


The names I'm using are mainly based on the naming of the samples and/or how they're listed in the standalone Dynamic Bowing patches. The arcs in Adagio/Agitato's original legato patches were pulled from those larger lists and were given the "Gentle", "Medium", etc names for simplicity.

I haven't incorporated every single dynamic bowing here. Partially because some of them are fundamentally incompatible with most or all of the legatos, due to vastly different dynamics. And partially because there are simply so many. I have tried to implement a wide variety of them, though.

If you want to use dynamic bowings without legato, I would recommend using the original patches to get the full selection. Adachi is mainly focused on how they can be used together with legato.


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## Sarah Mancuso

synthetic said:


> Adding one more in the chorus of thank yous. This was my main library for years, but I eventually moved away from it because of the legato speed inconsistencies and getting buried in tweaking to make it sound right. This is now effortless to play, thank you.


I’m really glad to hear it. Effortless was the goal!


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## GGaca

What is the best way to fake 2nd Violins with Adachi (if possible)?
transpose +x in kontakt and -x in daw?


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## Sarah Mancuso

GGaca said:


> What is the best way to fake 2nd Violins with Adachi (if possible)?
> transpose +x in kontakt and -x in daw?


You can do that, or you can just make sure that if you're ever playing the same notes in unison on the 1sts and 2nds, you give them each a different legato type and sustain type for that part. That way you can ensure different samples are used without having to transpose anything.

I don't often write V1+V2 playing the exact same part, and I think if I wanted to I'd probably just use a single track for it instead of two.


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## ScarletJerry

I finally caved and bought the rest of the Agitato series, and I used the idea from @synthetic to put all of the 8Dio string libs in one folder, and it finally worked!

The last thing that I am trying to understand is the rows. What does selecting them actually do? Also, I can't seem to key switch a sustain patch, or actually make any sustain appear. I'll keep playing with this, and I love the sound! It's magical.

Scarlet Jerry


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## Sarah Mancuso

ScarletJerry said:


> I finally caved and bought the rest of the Agitato series, and I used the idea from @synthetic to put all of the 8Dio string libs in one folder, and it finally worked!
> 
> The last thing that I am trying to understand is the rows. What does selecting them actually do? Also, I can't seem to key switch a sustain patch, or actually make any sustain appear. I'll keep playing with this, and I love the sound! It's magical.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Selecting rows in the keyswitch builder is currently only used for the "Automap" function, to automatically map the selected rows to a single key or to a range of keys. It doesn't relate to performance.

The different sustain types you can keyswitch to are, by default, combined with the legatos -- you pick a legato type and a sustain type and Adachi puts them together. You can use the Disable Legato button to play basic sustains without the legato functionality.


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## Sarah Mancuso

Another update. This one (hopefully) fixes a hanging notes bug that was introduced recently, adds some more content to the ensemble cellos (including two of the unused legato types discovered recently), and adds same-note rebowing to all four ensemble sections.

(Rebowing is not yet added to chamber or solo instruments.)

Same download URL as usual: https://esselfortium.net/ksp/adachi/Adachi.zip

Full changelog:


> *11/03/21: Hopefully fixed the hanging notes bug.
> 11/03/21: Cello ens: Added two more soft dynamic arcs.
> 
> 11/02/21: Cello ens: Implemented previously-unreleased Placido and Dolente legato types.*
> 
> 11/01/21: Modified release behavior to not skip releases on short post-legato notes
> 
> *10/31/21: Added same-note rebowing to all four Ensemble sections*
> 10/31/21: Bass ens: Fixed buggy dynamics on some mics of some artics
> 10/31/21: Violins ens: Additional timing cleanup of Village legato
> 10/31/21: Violins ens: Modified sync delays on some legato types


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## freecham

Thank you Sarah for this update and for sharing your work with us ! Adashi opens many possibilities of combinations and there is much to discover ! I used the ET Legato/Arc PFP long for the violins part in this piece :


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## pawel

@Sarah Mancuso Incredible job, thanks!

I've got a small question about the arcs. Would it make sense to make their speed adjustable through Kontakt's Time Machine?


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## Sarah Mancuso

pawel said:


> @Sarah Mancuso Incredible job, thanks!
> 
> I've got a small question about the arcs. Would it make sense to make their speed adjustable through Kontakt's Time Machine?


Unfortunately, it would cause a lot of problems. The legato crossfades are dependent on the exact playback speed remaining the same (so it can expect to be at a certain point in the arc by a certain point in the crossfade), these samples seem to stretch poorly to begin with (see the Loures), and it would blow up the already-somewhat-high RAM usage a lot further by needing to load the entire samples into memory rather than just the start of them.


----------



## pawel

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Unfortunately, it would cause a lot of problems. The legato crossfades are dependent on the exact playback speed remaining the same (so it can expect to be at a certain point in the arc by a certain point in the crossfade), these samples seem to stretch poorly to begin with (see the Loures), and it would blow up the already-somewhat-high RAM usage a lot further by needing to load the entire samples into memory rather than just the start of them.


Ah, I guess we can't have everything. Anyway, thanks again for all the unbelievable effort you've put into this project.


----------



## muziksculp

@Sarah Mancuso ,

Your Adachi Project is surely boosting 8Dio Sales of Adagio, and Agitato Libraries.  

Oh.. I haven't installed the latest Adachi update. Looking forward to the install, and check the new Rebowing feature. But it's not yet implemented for the Chamber, and Solo Instruments. So, will get them when you post those. 

THANKS


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

TBH I thought everyone on here already owned Anthology from when it was deeply discounted for like half the year...


----------



## synthetic

One thing that took me a while to figure out, maybe this helps someone: The first note you play is the sustain. So if your sustain is set to "Arc p-mf" (like the purple keyswitches on Ens Cellos), and you play eighth notes, the first note might be barely audible and the second note might be a loud legato transition note, which doesn't sound nice. Set the sustain to "Looped Sustain Agitato" or something and the first note will be strong enough to keep up with the others. See the attached image, I added one sustain keyswitch to D#0 to make this work. 

If you're new to Adagio, the "Agitato" keyswitches are the fastest and most-aggressive. "Anthology" after that, and the original "Adagio" are generally the softest.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

synthetic said:


> One thing that took me a while to figure out, maybe this helps someone: The first note you play is the sustain. So if your sustain is set to "Arc p-mf" (like the purple keyswitches on Ens Cellos), and you play eighth notes, the first note might be barely audible and the second note might be a loud legato transition note, which doesn't sound nice. Set the sustain to "Looped Sustain Agitato" or something and the first note will be strong enough to keep up with the others. See the attached image, I added one sustain keyswitch to D#0 to make this work.
> 
> If you're new to Adagio, the "Agitato" keyswitches are the fastest and most-aggressive. "Anthology" after that, and the original "Adagio" are generally the softest.


I realise the same then i thought it would probably make more sense to have the Looped Sus Agitato on D0 and have the 3 layer sustain on D0#(interchange the the 1st 2 red keys basically). It just makes more sense imo. And other benefit is when you use the performance patch(purple keys) then the sustain automatically goes back to D0 which, like you said, works better in general. I'm waiting for the finale version to try that.


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## muziksculp

Hi @Sarah Mancuso ,

I installed the latest version of the Adachi patches with the Rebow feature.

All the patches load fine, except for the Celli Ens. Legato patch, it keeps showing missing samples message. I'm not sure what to do ? Anything you recommend doing to fix this ?

* I noticed that it is looking for the Cellos v1 folder, I don't have the version 1 folder, but have been using the v2 folder, previously this worked, but not anymore, since it seems to need he V1 folder. 

I checked my 8dio account, and I have an Adagio Cellos vol. 1.6 that I could download. I'm guessing I need to download this to access the proper sample pool for the Cellos. 

Can you please provide some feedback on this. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sarah Mancuso ,
> 
> I installed the latest version of the Adachi patches with the Rebow feature.
> 
> All the patches load fine, except for the Celli Ens. Legato patch, it keeps showing missing samples message. I'm not sure what to do ? Anything you recommend doing to fix this ?
> 
> * I noticed that it is looking for the Cellos v1 folder, I don't have the version 1 folder, but have been using the v2 folder, previously this worked, but not anymore, since it seems to need he V1 folder.
> 
> I checked my 8dio account, and I have an Adagio Cellos vol. 1.6 that I could download. I'm guessing I need to download this to access the proper sample pool for the Cellos.
> 
> Can you please provide some feedback on this.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


if I’m not mistaken the newest version of the cellos patch has the additional legatos that are in Adagio 1.6. Those are likely the ones that are missing and you are only having an issue now because they were recently added.


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## Sarah Mancuso

jbuhler said:


> if I’m not mistaken the newest version of the cellos patch has the additional legatos that are in Adagio 1.6. Those are likely the ones that are missing and you are only having an issue now because they were recently added.


Hmm... Adagio Cellos was only updated to 1.5, as far as I know -- that's the version I have, in any case.

BTW, currently working on some refinements for the Placido and Dolente legatos. The recordings have a lot of inconsistencies in dynamics, so I'm going through one sample at a time and making gain adjustments so they play more consistently. Will also do another pass at their start points probably soonish, as the timings aren't as tight as I'd like them to be.


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## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> if I’m not mistaken the newest version of the cellos patch has the additional legatos that are in Adagio 1.6. Those are likely the ones that are missing and you are only having an issue now because they were recently added.


Thanks. 

I'm going to download Adagio Cellos Ver 1.6 and see if this resolves the issue. 

@Sarah Mancuso , I don't have Adagio Cellos ver 1.5 in my Downloads, only ver 1.6 is available. 

Anyways, I will be testing with ver 1.6. Hopefully it works


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Hmm... Adagio Cellos was only updated to 1.5, as far as I know -- that's the version I have, in any case.
> 
> BTW, currently working on some refinements for the Placido and Dolente legatos. The recordings have a lot of inconsistencies in dynamics, so I'm going through one sample at a time and making gain adjustments so they play more consistently. Will also do another pass at their start points probably soonish, as the timings aren't as tight as I'd like them to be.


Don't know how you do it.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Minor update posted with more usable versions of Placido and Dolente in the ensemble cellos. Haven't retimed the start points yet, but they're already feeling a lot more consistent and playable than they were with some gain adjustments and more flattering (read: less exposing) crossfade settings.

This update is for the ensemble cellos only, the other patches haven't changed since this morning's version.



https://esselfortium.net/ksp/adachi/Adachi.zip


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## muziksculp

Adachi Updates are becoming hourly, I'm trying to keep up with them 

Thank You @Sarah Mancuso


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## Sarah Mancuso

I'm trying to avoid posting updates on here too frequently, but the initial posted version of those new cello legatos was feeling pretty rough to me, so I wanted to get it resolved sooner rather than later.


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## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I'm trying to avoid posting updates on here too frequently, but the initial posted version of those new cello legatos was feeling pretty rough to me, so I wanted to get it resolved sooner rather than later.


Thanks, I couldn't test them anyways, due to the missing samples issue. I will test the new updated patches, I'm guessing you updated all of the NKI's not just the Cellos Legato one ?

I download Cellos Ens Legato ver 1.6 from my account, and will test the new patches, pointing to the ver 1.6 sample pool.


----------



## jbuhler

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Hmm... Adagio Cellos was only updated to 1.5, as far as I know -- that's the version I have, in any case.
> 
> BTW, currently working on some refinements for the Placido and Dolente legatos. The recordings have a lot of inconsistencies in dynamics, so I'm going through one sample at a time and making gain adjustments so they play more consistently. Will also do another pass at their start points probably soonish, as the timings aren't as tight as I'd like them to be.


Yeah, I was just going by memory and confused the numbering. It also looks to be 1.5 for me.


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## muziksculp

Hi @Sarah Mancuso ,

OK, I finally sorted out the missing samples issue, now all the latest patches you made, with the rebow are working great.

I'm very happy with the results you have been able to obtain with this last update. Much more playable, and smoother legato transitions. The Cello Ens. Legato and Rebow are wonderful. I will play the other sections as well to see if they have the same amount of improvement as the celli.

Thanks You so much, you deserve a round of big applause. 👏 😎

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## ScarletJerry

muziksculp said:


> Thanks, I couldn't test them anyways, due to the missing samples issue. I will test the new updated patches, I'm guessing you updated all of the NKI's not just the Cellos Legato one ?
> 
> I download Cellos Ens Legato ver 1.6 from my account, and will test the new patches, pointing to the ver 1.6 sample pool.


As Sara said, it looks like just the Cellos Ensemble patch was updated. It has a different date from the other patches. They sound awesome!

Scarlet Jerry


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## muziksculp




----------



## chrisr

Thanks again @Sarah Mancuso - I finally got all the required 8dio samples downloaded and installed. Creating symlinks was a 2 minute job, thanks to your video @djDarkX - and I've just spent the last 30mins playing through the wonderful instruments. Now just have to get all of this stuff into my template - and various bits from the original libraries - and century strings. Very happy to have made a small donation via your paypal link. I still can't get my head around the fact that you did this.


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## muziksculp

chrisr said:


> Creating symlinks was a 2 minute job, thanks to your video @djDarkX


Hi @chrisr ,

Could you post a link to the 'creating symlinks video' you mention above, that was posted by @djDarkX 

Thanks.


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## chrisr

sure - p9 of this thread... 






Adachi: Important update in OP


ok, bought Agitato Grandiose Violin, Viola and Cello and Agitato Arpeggio! same!! I couldn't resist any longer. Go, Adachi, go!!!




vi-control.net





and the YT video:


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## muziksculp

@chrisr ,

Thank You


----------



## ScoringFilm

Great work @Sarah Mancuso; much appreciated.

It would be useful to have a button which shows/hides the articulation slots so that it doesn't take up so much GUI space. Minor observation of what is otherwise fantastic work and a lot of work I'm sure.


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## jgarciaserra

Oh! Thanks @Sarah Mancuso Adagio, in my opinion, is one of the best sounding strings and more emotional, but the workflow was too hard. Playing a melody now is inspiring!
Thanks!!


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## parapentep70

Thanks! Thanks!! Thanks!!!


----------



## pawel

@Sarah Mancuso I'm curious, do you think the solo instruments have the potential to be more useful than just first chairs after getting your treatment?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

pawel said:


> @Sarah Mancuso I'm curious, do you think the solo instruments have the potential to be more useful than just first chairs after getting your treatment?


It's possible, depending on what you're having them play. The recordings, as with the rest of Adagio, are very "vibey" and expressive, which can mean trouble for seamless fades when it comes to solo instruments especially, but I've found the solo cello and bass pretty useful for parts that call for slow and expressive playing.

Eariler this year I used the cello for a mockup of a track that was later recorded with live viola, and the cello was able to handle the particular needs of this part better than anything else I threw at it.

I've attached the Adachi mockup version to this post.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sarah Mancuso said:


> It's possible, depending on what you're having them play. The recordings, as with the rest of Adagio, are very "vibey" and expressive, which can mean trouble for seamless fades when it comes to solo instruments especially, but I've found the solo cello and bass pretty useful for parts that call for slow and expressive playing.
> 
> Eariler this year I used the cello for a mockup of a track that was later recorded with live viola, and the cello was able to handle the particular needs of this part better than anything else I threw at it.
> 
> I've attached the Adachi mockup version to this post.


Are those rebow programmed in Adachi? Or are they the ones baked in Adagio legatos? Works really well .


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Are those rebow programmed in Adachi? Or are they the ones baked in Adagio legatos? Works really well .


The solo cello sustains have audible rebowing in them, they weren't specifically sequenced that way.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sarah Mancuso said:


> The solo cello sustains have audible rebowing in them, they weren't specifically sequenced that way.


Could have fooled me. The timing etc. Or maybe I'm just hearing what i want to hear. Thanks.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Could have fooled me. The timing etc. Or maybe I'm just hearing what i want to hear. Thanks.


It did end up fitting just right, haha.


----------



## rrichard63

There are two versions of Anthology. I forget what changed (and when), but I remember that the differences between the original and re-release versions are substantial. Which version do I need to work with Adachi? And can I crossgrade to the legacy Adagios from either version?

Forgive me if this has already been asked and answered. I haven't found an efficient way to search for specific questions like this in 18 page threads.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

rrichard63 said:


> There are two versions of Anthology. I forget what changed (and when), but I remember that the differences between the original and re-release versions are substantial. Which version do I need to work with Adachi? And can I crossgrade to the legacy Adagios from either version?
> 
> Forgive me if this has already been asked and answered. I haven't found an efficient way to search for specific questions like this in 18 page threads.


I think you should be able to do the legacy Adagio crossgrade from any Anthology version, but I'm not sure.

Technically you don't need any version of Anthology to use Adachi, _if_ you have Adagio 1.x (Legacy), Agitato Grandiose, Agitato Arpeggio, and Agitato Sordino. (If you have the current version of Anthology, you can skip Agitato Sordino.)


----------



## rrichard63

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I think you should be able to do the legacy Adagio crossgrade from any Anthology version, but I'm not sure.
> 
> Technically you don't need any version of Anthology to use Adachi, _if_ you have Adagio 1.x (Legacy), Agitato Grandiose, Agitato Arpeggio, and Agitato Sordino. (If you have the current version of Anthology, you can skip Agitato Sordino.)


Thank you! I have all of the Agitatos, so as long as my more recent Anthology qualifies for the crossgrade, I will be good.


----------



## rrichard63

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I think you should be able to do the legacy Adagio crossgrade from any Anthology version, but I'm not sure.


I can confirm that the more recent edition of Anthology works fine for the crossgrade. Thanks again, Sarah!


----------



## rlundv

It is possible to route individual mics from the custom GUI? Any tips on how to proceed?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

beyd770 said:


> It is possible to route individual mics from the custom GUI? Any tips on how to proceed?


There's no setting for it in the Adachi GUI, but you can do it via the Kontakt editor view you get by clicking the wrench button:




The close mic is bus 1, the far mic is bus 2, and the mix is bus 3. You can pick one from the top left dropdown shown here, then use the bottom right dropdown to pick an output for it.


----------



## ScarletJerry

I'm getting concerned Sarah - You have not issued an Adachi update in a few days. I was expecting a new version at least once a day. Surely, there are more undiscovered legatos in the sample pool. Is Adachi abandonware?


----------



## pipedr

Seriously loving Adachi! Sarah, I have sent you a token of appreciation through the PayPal link in page 1 of this thread.

Can you explain how to use the Legato Delay? I have programmed a line which uses various key switches for different legatos and sustains and I have noticed that there seems to be a default legato delay that Adachi sometimes switches to (e.g. from 0 to 14ms). I was trying to change the legato delay on one note transition in my line, but this seems to change the behavior of the other notes. Now, the legato delay jumps to different numbers (e.g. from 0 to 53ms). I tried to send a 0 value on the CC to reset it, but the only way to reset the behavior seems to be to close and load up Adachi again. What I want to do is to change one note transition's Legato Delay, but then switch back to your default settings.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

pipedr said:


> Seriously loving Adachi! Sarah, I have sent you a token of appreciation through the PayPal link in page 1 of this thread.
> 
> Can you explain how to use the Legato Delay? I have programmed a line which uses various key switches for different legatos and sustains and I have noticed that there seems to be a default legato delay that Adachi sometimes switches to (e.g. from 0 to 14ms). I was trying to change the legato delay on one note transition in my line, but this seems to change the behavior of the other notes. Now, the legato delay jumps to different numbers (e.g. from 0 to 53ms). I tried to send a 0 value on the CC to reset it, but the only way to reset the behavior seems to be to close and load up Adachi again. What I want to do is to change one note transition's Legato Delay, but then switch back to your default settings.


Thanks for your generosity!

The legato sync delay slider affects the currently active _legato type_, not per note. For instance, if you find that the "Instinct" legato is coming in too soon compared to the other types, you can activate the Instinct legato type (via keyswitch, velocity, etc) and then use the sync delay slider to change the delay on it. If there's just a certain single note that you'd like to adjust, I would recommend just nudging it in the sequencer.

(That slider being CC-controllable is a mistake, I hadn't noticed that. Because its effects are dependent on which legato type is active at the moment, sending automation data to it will do nothing but overwrite any activated legato type's delay sync settings with a single unchanging delay for all of them, defeating the point of the per-legato-type delay.)


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Had to revert back to Kontakt 6.3.2 and can't load Adachi anymore. I'm sure this will be all dorted out eventually. Been waiting years for this version of Adagio so I'm in no rush.


----------



## pipedr

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Thanks for your generosity!
> 
> The legato sync delay slider affects the currently active _legato type_, not per note. For instance, if you find that the "Instinct" legato is coming in too soon compared to the other types, you can activate the Instinct legato type (via keyswitch, velocity, etc) and then use the sync delay slider to change the delay on it. If there's just a certain single note that you'd like to adjust, I would recommend just nudging it in the sequencer.
> 
> (That slider being CC-controllable is a mistake, I hadn't noticed that. Because its effects are dependent on which legato type is active at the moment, sending automation data to it will do nothing but overwrite any activated legato type's delay sync settings with a single unchanging delay for all of them, defeating the point of the per-legato-type delay.)


So does this mean that increasing the Legato Sync Delay does the same thing as nudging the note on information a little later?


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## Sarah Mancuso

pipedr said:


> So does this mean that increasing the Legato Sync Delay does the same thing as nudging the note on information a little later?


Yes. It will also keep the previous note's ending linked up with it, so you still don't need to overlap them.


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## amorphosynthesis

@Sarah Mancuso
A big gigantic THANK YOU for sharing your work-
A small question...how much time did it take you to perform the "transition"?

p.s @Troels Folmann someone you should really consider very seriously hiring is here!!!!


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## Sarah Mancuso

amorphosynthesis said:


> @Sarah Mancuso
> A big gigantic THANK YOU for sharing your work-
> A small question...how much time did it take you to perform the "transition"?


I started work on Adachi late last year, after a few months of tossing ideas around while telling myself "no don't, it'll be way too much trouble!" It hasn't been a continuous process across the entire year, but it definitely took hundreds of hours of work to get it to its current state. I don't know if I'd want to find out how many it's actually been, haha. By far the most time-consuming (but probably the most effective) part has been retiming many of the legato interval samples, adjusting for inconsistent gain levels, etc.



> p.s @Troels Folmann someone you should really consider very seriously hiring is here!!!!


Well, I've actually started working at Impact Soundworks this week...


----------



## ScarletJerry

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I started work on Adachi late last year, after a few months of tossing ideas around while telling myself "no don't, it'll be way too much trouble!" It hasn't been a continuous process across the entire year, but it definitely took hundreds of hours of work to get it to its current state. I don't know if I'd want to find out how many it's actually been, haha. By far the most time-consuming (but probably the most effective) part has been retiming many of the legato interval samples, adjusting for inconsistent gain levels, etc.
> 
> 
> Well, I've actually started working at Impact Soundworks this week...


I suspect that Impact Soundworks will see a website spike as a result of this post. I think some high quality legatos are heading their way...

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## pipedr

Congratulations on your position, Sarah! I’m glad that all your hard work on Adachi and generosity in posting it has paid off. Looking forward to your next library. 

How many here would be interested in: Expansion Packs? Sarah has shown that this can be done, putting together Adagio and Agitato. I want MORE: more legatos, more sustains (with respect to Adachi particularly, more decrescendos and enough arcs to cover all note lengths, and some more neutral sustains—@Troels are you listening? Get back to the church and get busy!). 

I don’t care about playability in time. Don’t truncate those legato transitions. Don’t anesthetize those sustains. Activate lookahead if you need to, but I don’t mind stitching by hand. Give me more beautiful notes! 

Impact Soundworks, let Sarah give Tokyo Scoring Strings the Adachi treatment!!!


----------



## jbuhler

pipedr said:


> Congratulations on your position, Sarah! I’m glad that all your hard work on Adachi and generosity in posting it has paid off. Looking forward to your next library.
> 
> How many here would be interested in: Expansion Packs? Sarah has shown that this can be done, putting together Adagio and Agitato. I want MORE: more legatos, more sustains (with respect to Adachi particularly, more decrescendos and enough arcs to cover all note lengths, and some more neutral sustains—@Troels are you listening? Get back to the church and get busy!).
> 
> I don’t care about playability in time. Don’t truncate those legato transitions. Don’t anesthetize those sustains. Activate lookahead if you need to, but I don’t mind stitching by hand. Give me more beautiful notes!
> 
> Impact Soundworks, let Sarah give Tokyo Scoring Strings the Adachi treatment!!!


I don’t think there are enough legato transitions, sustains, and arcs in TSS to get the Adachi treatment. SF’s SCS might but I think the samples are closed unless you have the old sable version. But the fabulous thing about Adagio/Agitato is just how many different legatos, sustains and arcs they recorded. The arcs alone often made Adagio worth the price even before it went on ridiculous sales. And now with all the legatos hooked up to all the sustains and arcs, the possibilities are greatly expanded.


----------



## easyrider

I’ve just been sent the code for getting legacy for $8 what else do I need?


----------



## rrichard63

easyrider said:


> I’ve just been sent the code for getting legacy for $8 what else do I need?



According to Sarah:



Sarah Mancuso said:


> ... you don't need any version of Anthology to use Adachi, _if_ you have Adagio 1.x (Legacy), Agitato Grandiose, Agitato Arpeggio, and Agitato Sordino. (If you have the current version of Anthology, you can skip Agitato Sordino.)


----------



## pipedr

jbuhler said:


> I don’t think there are enough legato transitions, sustains, and arcs in TSS to get the Adachi treatment. SF’s SCS might but I think the samples are closed unless you have the old sable version. But the fabulous thing about Adagio/Agitato is just how many different legatos, sustains and arcs they recorded. The arcs alone often made Adagio worth the price even before it went on ridiculous sales. And now with all the legatos hooked up to all the sustains and arcs, the possibilities are greatly expanded.


What I mean is that they should record arcs and legatos and release an expansion pack next year.


----------



## jbuhler

easyrider said:


> I’ve just been sent the code for getting legacy for $8 what else do I need?


If you bought the violins for $8, then you should get the download codes to put into the 8Dio downloader. But that should have been explained in the emails from 8Dio, so I’m not certain what info you are lacking.


----------



## jbuhler

pipedr said:


> What I mean is that they should record arcs and legatos and release an expansion pack next year.


I’m still hoping Sarah gets to design and record her own string library from the ground up.


----------



## easyrider

jbuhler said:


> If you bought the violins for $8, then you should get the download codes to put into the 8Dio downloader. But that should have been explained in the emails from 8Dio, so I’m not certain what info you are lacking.


What will I get from 8Dio? Adagio Legacy? I meant what other libraries do I need to use adachi?


----------



## EvilDragon

pipedr said:


> Impact Soundworks, let Sarah give Tokyo Scoring Strings the Adachi treatment!!!


She's working on exactly that


----------



## jbuhler

Yes. You should get an email like this for each section:



> Thank you for purchasing your watermarked 8Dio Adagio Cellos Vol. 1.6. We hope you will have a great time with the instrument - because we had a great time making it for you.
> 
> The download procedure for your instrument contains two basic steps:


That will contain your download code. But you have to use the code from support to buy the violins for $8 first. You do that in the 8Dio site. Once you do that you’ll be sent all the codes. And the support person should have said something like they will add the other instruments to your account after you’ve bought the violins.


----------



## easyrider

rrichard63 said:


> According to Sarah:





jbuhler said:


> Yes. You should get an email like this for each section:
> 
> 
> That will contain your download code. But you have to use the code from support to buy the violins for $8 first. You do that in the 8Dio site. Once you do that you’ll be sent all the codes. And the support person should have said something like they will add the other instruments to your account after you’ve bought the violins.


Sorry I think I have been misunderstood…

I need adagio legacy and these ?


----------



## jbuhler

easyrider said:


> Sorry I think I have been misunderstood…
> 
> I need adagio legacy and these ?


no, those are Agitato and Adachi does use some of them. The $8 code only applies to Anthology as far as I’m aware, and allows you to get the legacy Adagio content, only some of which was ported to Anthology. If you have Anthology And you’ve spoken to support they should have given you a link to buy the Adagio Violins for $8.


----------



## easyrider

jbuhler said:


> no, those are Agitato and Adachi does use some of them. The $8 code only applies to Anthology as far as I’m aware, and allows you to get the legacy Adagio content, only some of which was ported to Anthology. If you have Anthology And you’ve spoken to support they should have given you a link to buy the Adagio Violins for $8.


Yes they have sent me the link to purchase Adagio Violins for $8

Once I get Adigio Legacy added to my account my question was Do I just need to buy these on Top?


----------



## jbuhler

easyrider said:


> Yes they have sent me the link to purchase Adagio Violins for $8
> 
> Once I get Adigio Legacy added to my account my question was Do I just need to buy these on Top?


Yes, if you want the complete Adachi. But Adachi works with fewer legatos and sustains with just Anthology/Adagio. 

I started with just Adagio when Sarah shared an early version in the spring and I picked up the Agitato bundle on sale in August.


----------



## easyrider

I’ll just buy the Agitato bundle .

How do I install Adachi?


----------



## jbuhler

easyrider said:


> I’ll just buy the Agitato bundle .
> 
> How do I install Adachi?


Lots of ways you can do it. I set up an Adachi folder, copied the nkis there and then opened each nki in turn and pointed each at the samples. Then saved the nkis. You can save it as is, or save the samples with it, or create symbolic links. I opted to just save the nki with the samples so I could then move Adachi without having to worry about missing samples.


----------



## amorphosynthesis

easyrider said:


> Yes they have sent me the link to purchase Adagio Violins for $8


wow look what I found 9 years ago....


----------



## Pablocrespo

Just want to congratulate Sarah on her new gig! hard work and generosity always bear fruits!


----------



## easyrider

8 dio have just dropped these into my account for $8

8Dio Adagio - Violins 2.0.
8Dio Adagio - Basses 2.0.
8Dio Adagio - Cellos 2.0
8Dio Adagio Basses.
8Dio Adagio Violas Vol. 1.6
8Dio Adagio Cellos Vol. 1.6
8Dio Adagio Violins 1.6.

Do I need to download the version 2.0 ones or do I just download the 1.6 ones and then buy the Agitato bundle?

I don’t want to break anything or have and save on SSD space.

thanks


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

easyrider said:


> 8 dio have just dropped these into my account for $8
> 
> 8Dio Adagio - Violins 2.0.
> 8Dio Adagio - Basses 2.0.
> 8Dio Adagio - Cellos 2.0
> 8Dio Adagio Basses.
> 8Dio Adagio Violas Vol. 1.6
> 8Dio Adagio Cellos Vol. 1.6
> 8Dio Adagio Violins 1.6.
> 
> Do I need to download the version 2.0 ones or do I just download the 1.6 ones and tthen buy the Agitato bundle?
> 
> I don’t want to break anything or have and save on SSD space.
> 
> thanks


You can skip the 2.0 versions. They're just the individual volumes of Anthology.


----------



## easyrider

Sarah Mancuso said:


> You can skip the 2.0 versions. They're just the individual volumes of Anthology.


Thanks ! 👍


----------



## Ricgus3

What agitato content is needed? All of it or just some parts?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Ricgus3 said:


> What agitato content is needed? All of it or just some parts?


You can skip Agitato Sordino if you have Adagio Legacy and Anthology.


----------



## BL

amorphosynthesis said:


> wow look what I found 9 years ago....


I feel the pain... I bought all 4 libs when they all first dropped.


----------



## ansthenia

I just crossgraded to Adagio. Violins and Cellos show up in my account as Vol. 1.6. But Violas just say Vol. 1, and Basses it doesn't say, just says Adagio Basses. This is correct?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

ansthenia said:


> I just crossgraded to Adagio. Violins and Cellos show up in my account as Vol. 1.6. But Violas just say Vol. 1, and Basses it doesn't say, just says Adagio Basses. This is correct?


As long as the GUI looks like what you see in Adagio Violins, rather than looking like Anthology, that should be correct.


----------



## aka70

Hello @Sarah, is it possible to make the Legato on-off by keyswitch??


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

aka70 said:


> Hello @Sarah, is it possible to make the Legato on-off by keyswitch??


Try to right click on legato and see if you can assign a cc?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

aka70 said:


> Hello @Sarah, is it possible to make the Legato on-off by keyswitch??


There's not a keyswitch for it, but you can automate the button that disables legato. It's mapped by default to host automation slot 001, if I remember right.


----------



## aka70

That's great, I'm making some sound variations for Studio One, basically all the legatos in one keyswitch but with different velocities and for the sustains some momentary keyswitch to switch just for the notes I need. It's pretty amazing the diversity and variations you get with this system that you created. Thank you again and again


----------



## biomuse

@Sarah Mancuso a portentious and very Black Week-type of question for you: 
I'm eyeing CSS vs. (drum roll..) Adachi + necessary 8DIO content as two options for detailed sounding, swelling-legato expressive strings. 

One of the main strengths of CSS is obviously the 5 lengths of legato per patch, allowing close contouring of legato lines to taste. Do you think Adachi can hang as an alternative? Do the "17 types of legato" in Anthology/Adagio, as you have now configured them in Adachi, constitute a credible alternative to that aspect of CSS? Because I do like the sound of A/A very much.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

biomuse said:


> @Sarah Mancuso a portentious and very Black Week-type of question for you:
> I'm eyeing CSS vs. (drum roll..) Adachi + necessary 8DIO content as two options for detailed sounding, swelling-legato expressive strings.
> 
> One of the main strengths of CSS is obviously the 5 lengths of legato per patch, allowing close contouring of legato lines to taste. Do you think Adachi can hang as an alternative? Do the "17 types of legato" in Anthology/Adagio, as you have now configured them in Adachi, constitute a credible alternative to that aspect of CSS? Because I do like the sound of A/A very much.


Honestly, I think working on Adachi was the last nail in the coffin for me feeling any need to buy CSS... But I am of course a bit biased, haha.

It's also worth noting that CSS's legato speeds are simply different profiles for the same legato samples (aside from the portamento, which is of course its own samples). There aren't five distinct legato types in CSS.

CSS is definitely far more well-rounded if you're looking for a bread and butter library covering a whole range of articulations in a consistent way, but if you're _just_ looking to add expressive lyrical legato to your palette, Adachi covers that pretty thoroughly, IMO.


----------



## Evans

biomuse said:


> One of the main strengths of CSS is obviously the 5 lengths of legato per patch


Side note: I often read (and watch, in YouTube videos) that a true strength of CSS is the extreme consistency of its shorts articulations. No BBCSO-like issues there, it seems.


----------



## biomuse

Evans said:


> Side note: I often read (and watch, in YouTube videos) that a true strength of CSS is the extreme consistency of its shorts articulations. No BBCSO-like issues there, it seems.


Agreed. I have VSL Elite Strings for the the types of passages where tight consistency and good variety of shorts rules the day. Its weakest (not abject or absent, just weakest) area is flowing romantic legati. Was thinking Sarah’s concoction might fill that gap very well.


----------



## Ivan Duch

First I have to thank you @Sarah Mancuso for all the hard work. I've been playing with it for the past 2 weeks and I am amazed at the quality of the work you did. It's crazy how much potential those libraries actually had and the fact you were able to see that and make it work.



biomuse said:


> I'm eyeing CSS vs. (drum roll..) Adachi + necessary 8DIO content as two options for detailed sounding, swelling-legato expressive strings.



I think Adachi + Agitato + Adagio can work as a bread & butter library. It leans towards the lyrically side (but so does CSS). I love the sound of it and it also has a ton of articulations, way more than CSS.

Arcs, louree, many types of shorts and longs, divisi, first chairs, and FXs. I think as a string package there are few (if none) better options for the price.

I also own BBCSO and unlike that one, the shorts are better edited and more consistent. Not sure how would it compare to CSS in that regard.


----------



## PedroPH

Evans said:


> Side note: I often read (and watch, in YouTube videos) that a true strength of CSS is the extreme consistency of its shorts articulations. No BBCSO-like issues there, it seems.


What BBCSO-like issues?


----------



## Evans

PedroPH said:


> What BBCSO-like issues?


Some of the shorts - spiccato for V1, maybe? - have a round robin here and there that are poorly timed. I'm honestly not sure if it's been fixed.


----------



## PedroPH

Evans said:


> Some of the shorts - spiccato for V1, maybe? - have a round robin here and there that are poorly timed. I'm honestly not sure if it's been fixed.


I know what you mean. I realized this recently. So I'm not crazy. It's real. Good to know!


----------



## Ricgus3

Evans said:


> Some of the shorts - spiccato for V1, maybe? - have a round robin here and there that are poorly timed. I'm honestly not sure if it's been fixed.


It was the same with Spitfire Studio Strings violas


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

FIRST AND FOREMOST: Thank you for all the great work @Sarah Mancuso!
Donation sent!

My 8Dio strings were the last of my collection to finally sort through.

this thread was instrumental (!) with completing this head-shaking task.

I think I can get all things Adachi by getting the Agitato collections for $76.80

Is this accurate?


Currently Own:

Anthology Strings

Adagio Violins – A Part of the Anthology Series
Adagio Violas – A Part Of The Anthology Series
Adagio Cellos – A Part Of The Anthology Series
Adagio Basses – A Part Of The Anthology Series


8Dio Adagio Violins 1.6
8Dio Adagio Violas Vol. 1
8Dio Adagio Cellos Vol. 1.6
8Dio Adagio Basses

Adagietto Strings

Agitato Sordino Strings


*ON SALE:*

Agitato Grandiose Ensemble Violas $48.00

Agitato Grandiose Ensemble Cellos $48.00

Agitato Grandiose Ensemble Violins $48.00

Agitato Legato Arpeggio $48.00

Subtotal $192.00
Coupon: 60dio -$115.20

Total $76.80


this is my Adagio folder






my understanding, Adagio - A Part of the Anthology Series is V2?

which is:






?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Zoot_Rollo said:


> FIRST AND FOREMOST: Thank you for all the great work @Sarah Mancuso!
> Donation sent!
> 
> My 8Dio strings were the last of my collection to finally sort through.
> 
> this thread was instrumental (!) with completing this head-shaking task.
> 
> I think I can get all things Adachi by getting the Agitato collections for $76.80
> 
> Is this accurate?
> 
> 
> Currently Own:
> 
> Anthology Strings
> 
> Adagio Violins – A Part of the Anthology Series
> Adagio Violas – A Part Of The Anthology Series
> Adagio Cellos – A Part Of The Anthology Series
> Adagio Basses – A Part Of The Anthology Series
> 
> 
> 8Dio Adagio Violins 1.6
> 8Dio Adagio Violas Vol. 1
> 8Dio Adagio Cellos Vol. 1.6
> 8Dio Adagio Basses
> 
> Adagietto Strings
> 
> Agitato Sordino Strings
> 
> 
> *ON SALE:*
> 
> Agitato Grandiose Ensemble Violas $48.00
> 
> Agitato Grandiose Ensemble Cellos $48.00
> 
> Agitato Grandiose Ensemble Violins $48.00
> 
> Agitato Legato Arpeggio $48.00
> 
> Subtotal $192.00
> Coupon: 60dio -$115.20
> 
> Total $76.80
> 
> 
> this is my Adagio folder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my understanding, Adagio - A Part of the Anthology Series is V2?
> 
> which is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


Thank you very much!

And you're correct on all counts.


----------



## djrustycans

@Sarah Mancuso - this is really inspiring!! In order to get going with Adachi - my original Adagio only went to 1.5 and I can't see a 1.6 anywhere? I also have 2.0 from Anthology. Maybe this is why the RR don't appear to work for me on repeated notes. Everything seems to load - it's just the repeated notes are triggering the same samples each time. Thanks!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

djrustycans said:


> @Sarah Mancuso - this is really inspiring!! In order to get going with Adachi - my original Adagio only went to 1.5 and I can't see a 1.6 anywhere? I also have 2.0 from Anthology. Maybe this is why the RR don't appear to work for me on repeated notes. Everything seems to load - it's just the repeated notes are triggering the same samples each time. Thanks!


Only certain legato types have round robins. On the ensemble violins, violas, or cellos, try Instinct, Village, or Fast Feathered. There are a few other types with RRs in certain patches, but those are the main ones. (Where relevant, RR count is specified in the name of the legato type shown in the UI.)


----------



## djrustycans

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Only certain legato types have round robins. On the ensemble violins, violas, or cellos, try Instinct, Village, or Fast Feathered. There are a few other types with RRs in certain patches, but those are the main ones. (Where relevant, RR count is specified in the name of the legato type shown in the UI.)


Great, thanks - hadn’t twigged it was on certain types. It’s so musical!


----------



## djrustycans

The RR definitely aren't working for me..... I re-downloaded all my Legacy Adagio library but Basses and Violas say V1 and Cellos and Violins say 1_5. Does everybody else have folders which say 1.6? Adachi is SO good, I want to make sure it's all working correctly as I can't repeat notes on any of the RR patches.


----------



## djrustycans

Sorted…. 😀. Support have just added the separate 1.6 versions of Cellos and Violins to my account. Top guys!


----------



## Symfoniq

So as an Anthology/Adagio Legacy owner interested in Adachi, is it worth shelling out $100 for Agitato during 8Dio's 60% off sale? How much will I be missing in Adachi by not owning Agitato?


----------



## Evans

Symfoniq said:


> So as an Anthology/Adagio Legacy owner interested in Adachi, is it worth shelling out $100 for Agitato during 8Dio's 60% off sale? How much will I be missing in Adachi by not owning Agitato?


Check prior posts. I think you may only need (EDIT) some of it. Maybe. But worth a skim.

Easy to reduce search time with this:


----------



## mallux

First of all, thanks for the great work Sarah, having fun trying out Adachi and I'm sure it will be super useful.

Apologies if this has been answered earlier (I did go through all the previous pages)... I'm on MacOS here and have all A* bundles. Symlinks didn't work for me, but Spotlight happily resolves all the missing files for all the patches except for two: "Basses Ensemble" and "Violas Sordino".

The only difference with these, as far as I can see, is that it's looking for .NCW files rather than .ncw. When I go hunting for the individual files that are missing, e.g. ens_sord_dynbow_long_mp_f_mp_d2_CLOSE.NCW I can find an exact match, only with .ncw suffix instead.

I double-checked I'm on a case-insensitive filesystem (APFS, not case-sensitive).

Does anyone know if there is a way to get Kontakt on MacOS to find the files regardless of suffix? (I already tried "Allow alternative file types"). Or a way to open up the .nki files in a text editor so I can do a find-and-replace?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Symfoniq said:


> So as an Anthology/Adagio Legacy owner interested in Adachi, is it worth shelling out $100 for Agitato during 8Dio's 60% off sale? How much will I be missing in Adachi by not owning Agitato?


Personally, i think it's worth it cause it provides the fast transition legatos and more. It makes this whole package very unique. I considered not getting CSS because of what Adachi offers. But I'll still get it cause cause CSS has more velocity layers(more dynamics) if i remeber correctly and it's important for me. CSS is basically the top string library in case you didn't know.


----------



## Evans

Symfoniq said:


> So as an Anthology/Adagio Legacy owner interested in Adachi, is it worth shelling out $100 for Agitato during 8Dio's 60% off sale? How much will I be missing in Adachi by not owning Agitato?


Looking at what I picked up, I think it's Agitato Sordino that's not needed, because it's covered in Anthology.


----------



## mallux

mallux said:


> The only difference with these, as far as I can see, is that it's looking for .NCW files rather than .ncw. When I go hunting for the individual files that are missing, e.g. ens_sord_dynbow_long_mp_f_mp_d2_CLOSE.NCW I can find an exact match, only with .ncw suffix instead.


Learning about Creator Tools and Kontakt Lua scripting wasn't necessarily on my ToDo list this evening, but I managed to cobble together enough of a script to replace all .NCW with .ncw and now those last two patches are working for me. Happy days. 👍


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

mallux said:


> Learning about Creator Tools and Kontakt Lua scripting wasn't necessarily on my ToDo list this evening, but I managed to cobble together enough of a script to replace all .NCW with .ncw and now those last two patches are working for me. Happy days. 👍


I'm glad you were able to get it working! I have no idea why it wasn't behaving before, though...


----------



## EvilDragon

mallux said:


> I double-checked I'm on a case-insensitive filesystem (APFS, not case-sensitive).


AFAIK, APFS is optionally case-sensitive, but it is always case-retaining IIRC. And sometimes, just sometimes, this can trip some apps up a bit.


----------



## jadedsean

So this is a big thread so i did not read everything but, my understanding is, if i buy Antology Strings i then can get the Adagio legacy as a upgrade for $8, is this correct? 8dio are doing 60% of so it seems like a good idea to buy now if this is the case.
​


----------



## doctoremmet

jadedsean said:


> So this is a big thread so i did not read everything but, my understanding is, if i buy Antology Strings i then can get the Adagio legacy as a upgrade for $8, is this correct? 8dio are doing 60% of so it seems like a good idea to buy now if this is the case.
> ​


Correct. Your request has to go to Support. They will then send you a vouchercode, let you buy the current Adagio Violins online and using that voucher your expenditure will be exactly eight US dollars. Once they receive the payment they will then manually add the older v1.6 download links of “legacy Adagio” to your account.


----------



## jadedsean

doctoremmet said:


> Correct. Your request has to go to Support. They will then send you a vouchercode, let you buy the current Adagio Violins online and using that voucher your expenditure will be exactly eight US dollars. Once they receive the payment they will then manually add the older v1.6 download links of “legacy Adagio” to your account.


Great thanks for the quick response, i better head over to 8dio then


----------



## YahmezTV

I own the Agitato Bundle and Anthology; trying to free up some space on my SSD. Does anyone know off hand, which of the Agitato folders are redundant and can be safely deleted? Thanks you VIC beauties!


----------



## jadedsean

Just downloading these instrumnets now, is there instructions how to actully set this up?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

jadedsean said:


> Just downloading these instrumnets now, is there instructions how to actully set this up?


A few page back there's a video for Pc users i think?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

On page 9 see video by djDarkX.


----------



## jadedsean

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> A few page back there's a video for Pc users i think?


Cheers, i will take a look now.


----------



## jadedsean

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> On page 9 see video by djDarkX.


So, i just looked at the video and now i am a little confused, he mentions in the video that we would need Grandiose and sordinos for later. I actully have the sordions but not the latter, i thouht we just need the Antology version for this to work? I was sent the legacy links from 8dio which i am currently downloading, what am i missing here?


----------



## jbuhler

jadedsean said:


> So, i just looked at the video and now i am a little confused, he mentions in the video that we would need Grandiose and sordinos for later. I actully have the sordions but not the latter, i thouht we just need the Antology version for this to work? I was sent the legacy links from 8dio which i am currently downloading, what am i missing here?


It will work with just the Adagio samples, but you get more legato types and sustain types if you also have the Agitato samples.


----------



## jadedsean

jbuhler said:


> It will work with just the Adagio samples, but you get more legato types and sustain types if you also have the Agitato samples.


Okay so correct me if i am wrong because it is very confusing how 8dio has this layed out. In order to use Adachi i need, Antology, Adagio Grandiose, violins, violas,and celli and also the sordinos? What is bundeled into the Antology is the updated version of old Adagio version. Is this correct?


----------



## jbuhler

jadedsean said:


> Okay so correct me if i am wrong because it is very confusing how 8dio has this layed out. In order to use Adachi i need, Antology, Adagio Grandiose, violins, violas,and celli and also the sordinos? What is bundeled into the Antology is the updated version of old Adagio version. Is this correct?


Yes, Anthology has an updated Adagio and also some of Agitato. You also need the Agitato arpeggios for the fast legatos.

ETA: I seem to recall that Anthology has the Agitatos Sordinos, so you don't need to get those separately. But I don't recall precisely, since I bought the Agitato bundle and they came as part of that.


----------



## jadedsean

jbuhler said:


> Yes, Anthology has an updated Adagio and also some of Agitato. You also need the Agitato arpeggios for the fast legatos.
> 
> ETA: I seem to recall that Anthology has the Agitatos Sordinos, so you don't need to get those separately. But I don't recall precisely, since I bought the Agitato bundle and they came as part of that.


Okay thank you, its hard to know what is included in the Anthology version as the folder structure is insane. I also don't want to buy libraries that are already included in Anthology.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

jadedsean said:


> Okay thank you, its hard to know what is included in the Anthology version as the folder structure is insane. I also don't want to buy libraries that are already included in Anthology.


There's a lot of info in this thread if you have the courage to go through it. I'd focus on whatever Sarah wrote and that should give you all the info you need and save you time.


----------



## jbuhler

jadedsean said:


> Okay thank you, its hard to know what is included in the Anthology version as the folder structure is insane. I also don't want to buy libraries that are already included in Anthology.


You do need the legacy Adagio samples as well. They have more Adagio content than what's in Anthology. Then you need all of Agitato Grandiose and Agitato arpeggios. I believe the Agitato sordinos are included in Anthology. But all of Sarah's instructions say you need to own the Agitato bundle for full functionality.


----------



## jadedsean

jbuhler said:


> You do need the legacy Adagio samples as well. They have more Adagio content than what's in Anthology. Then you need all of Agitato Grandiose and Agitato arpeggios. I believe the Agitato sordinos are included in Anthology. But all of Sarah's instructions say you need to own the Agitato bundle for full functionality.


So I am currently downloading the legacy samples but for whatever reason 8dio also made these available to me too, even though i already own Antholgy.
Adagio Violins – A Part Of The Anthology Series
Adagio Violas – A Part Of The Anthology Series
Adagio Celli – A Part Of The Anthology Series
Adagio Basses – A Part Of The Anthology Series


----------



## jbuhler

jadedsean said:


> So I am currently downloading the legacy samples but for whatever reason 8dio also made these available to me to0.
> Adagio Violas – A Part Of The Anthology Series
> Adagio Violas – A Part Of The Anthology Series
> Adagio Violas – A Part Of The Anthology Series
> Adagio Violas – A Part Of The Anthology Series


I think that's Adagio 2.0, which is the Adagio content of Anthology in the Anthology GUI. As far as I'm aware, there is no reason to get it since it just duplicates what is already available in Anthology. But I can't say that I completely understand these packages, having purchased them to use with Adachi.


----------



## jadedsean

jbuhler said:


> I think that's Adagio 2.0, which is the Adagio content of Anthology in the Anthology GUI. As far as I'm aware, there is no reason to get it since it just duplicates what is already available in Anthology. But I can't say that I completely understand these packages, having purchased them to use with Adachi.


Yeah, its so confusing to be honest how 8dio lay it out but i feel i have a handle on it now, thanks again for your help.


----------



## pranic

I guess it's time to jump on this bandwagon -- the demos sound lovely, and I'm a master of symlinking files on UNIX computers. I was only missing the three Agitato Violins, Cellos and Violas, so excited to see how this all comes together. Thank you @Sarah Mancuso for what looks to be an amazingly detailed amount of work that went into breathing new life to these samples!

Update: In my `Adachi` directory, I created a `Samples` folder, and then symlinked all the other libraries, and did a batch resave in Kontakt with great success. A few quick play-throughs and I'm feeling rather jovial at a whole new one-stop-shop for string legatos!


----------



## Ruffian Price

Symlinking is seriously overkill, just cancel and point Kontakt to the next folder every time it gets stuck loading


----------



## EvilDragon

Symlinking allows you to have things spread over multiple drives, yet appearing in a singular place. It's definitely not overkill and has plenty of uses


----------



## ScarletJerry

I love this thread, but the only thing that concerns me is that my legacy libraries say 1.5. Is there really a 1.6? If so, what’s the difference? I am hesitant to even think about upgrading when I finally have everything working!

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

ScarletJerry said:


> I love this thread, but the only thing that concerns me is that my legacy libraries say 1.5. Is there really a 1.6? If so, what’s the difference? I am hesitant to even think about upgrading when I finally have everything working!
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


If everything is working, I wouldn't worry about it. I think only some of mine say 1.6.


----------



## jbuhler

ScarletJerry said:


> I love this thread, but the only thing that concerns me is that my legacy libraries say 1.5. Is there really a 1.6? If so, what’s the difference? I am hesitant to even think about upgrading when I finally have everything working!
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


I seem to recall that in true 8dio style Adagio 1.6 consists of different version numbers for different instruments.


----------



## ScarletJerry

jbuhler said:


> I seem to recall that in true 8dio style Adagio 1.6 consists of different version numbers for different instruments.


I hear that Dan Brown is working on a new book - The Adagio Code.


----------



## drymcore_music

Hey Sarah, thank you very much for everything you invested into this project.
You brought life back into good samples that were never (!) set up properly. Large undertaking, already did donate to keep your motivation up 

I have a somewhat related question:
in the 8dio Claire series, which is somewhat similar to Adagio (recordings with a spirit, problems in the scripting) there is one large gap: the Clarinet does not have a looped sustain attached, only stupid swells which help in no way when playing a melody.

There IS a sustain sample set, of course, but it comes with no legato...

That is a pity, as the tone and the legato of that instrument is superb (might be my best clarinet, and i think i own almost all clarinet samples out there). But i can only use it for fast passages that don´t need long held notes... :-/

The only person on this planet that comes to my mind which could fix that is you.
Just saying


----------



## drymcore_music

Oh, i forgot the actual question: is there a chance you might fix that clarinet one day?
If you don´t own it: i would buy it for you, as it´s on 60% sale that would make for a nice christmas gift :-D


----------



## Stevie

Thank you so much for doing this, Sarah!
I just purchased Anthology and all the other necessary libraries for this.

Question: whats the link to the discord server?


----------



## biomuse

jbuhler said:


> The way I did it when I set this up is created an Adachi folder. Then I opened each of the nkis one by one, located the samples and saved the nki into the Adachi folder with the samples. This created a sample folder in the Adachi folder along with the nki. The disadvantage of this method is that it duplicates samples on the drive. The advantage is that the libraries can be easily moved without worrying about links breaking or needing to keep the full Adagio, Anthology or Agitato library on an SSD.


Do you have a sense of how much of the original libraries is invoked by Adachi and therefore how much drive space you saved by doing it this way? Thanks.


----------



## jbuhler

biomuse said:


> Do you have a sense of how much of the original libraries is invoked by Adachi and therefore how much drive space you saved by doing it this way? Thanks.


I didn’t delete the Anthology or Agitato libraries so it rather increased the drive space, but it simplified moving the library about. I’m not at my rig now (and won’t be again for a couple of days) so I can’t check the size of the resulting library.


----------



## ScarletJerry

drymcore_music said:


> Oh, i forgot the actual question: is there a chance you might fix that clarinet one day?
> If you don´t own it: i would buy it for you, as it´s on 60% sale that would make for a nice christmas gift :-D


I wonder what would happen if you added some compression to reduce most of the swell volume on the moderate legato patch? I did this with the oboe from Miroslav years ago, and it worked well.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Stevie

Just a heads up for Anthology users:

I personally didn’t want to keep the Anthology library on my disk, because it has a reduced feature set anyway. So, I went for the Agitato Sordinos as well (in order to have working NKIs after removing Anthology).


----------



## antsteep

Read the entire thread and I am still a little confused. I have the Agitato String Bundle at the moment. 

What would I need to add to get the required samples? Anthology?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

antsteep said:


> Read the entire thread and I am still a little confused. I have the Agitato String Bundle at the moment.
> 
> What would I need to add to get the required samples? Anthology?


Yes. And once you have Anthology you ask for Adagio legacy($8) cause Adachi uses that one and Agitato bundle.


----------



## ScarletJerry

@Stevie You may want to the check out this video which revisits Anthology’s most recent scripting update - it may be worth keeping. Check out the segment that begins around 24:05 where chordal legato is discussed.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Hey Sarah,

so cool what you did with Adagio..

may I ask: how can I get Adagio 1.6? On the 8dio website I only find the different Adagio sections. Legacy seems not to be there anymore..


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Yes. And once you have Anthology you ask for Adagio legacy($8) cause Adachi uses that one and Agitato bundle.


is this the way to go? whole anthology first?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Fever Phoenix said:


> is this the way to go? whole anthology first?


Yes. The current Adagio libraries are just the individual sections of Anthology sold separately. What you want is the 1.x versions that are no longer officially available (but can be gotten via crossgrade by asking their support chat, once you own Anthology).


----------



## RMH

Amazing @Sarah Mancuso !
I have question!
Isn't there a way with anthology? Of course, I can buy legacy if I contact the support center, but I wonder if you owned anthology.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

RMH said:


> Amazing @Sarah Mancuso !
> I have question!
> Isn't there a way with anthology? Of course, I can buy legacy if I contact the support center, but I wonder if you owned anthology.


Anthology is lacking many of the samples used by Adachi, so it won't work for this.


----------



## RMH

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Anthology is lacking many of the samples used by Adachi, so it won't work for this.


Thank you for answering. I'll have to try. I'll have to buy an azidato bundle at the next discount.


----------



## RMH

@Sarah Mancuso
Sarah! If I buy a Adagio legacy library, will all four strings be purchased?

I got an answer, but I'm a little confused.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

RMH said:


> @Sarah Mancuso
> Sarah! If I buy a Adagio legacy library, will all four strings be purchased?
> 
> I got an answer, but I'm a little confused.


Yes, they should put all of them into your account. If it doesn't happen automatically, poke their support chat again and they should get you taken care of.


----------



## jbuhler

RMH said:


> @Sarah Mancuso
> Sarah! If I buy a Adagio legacy library, will all four strings be purchased?
> 
> I got an answer, but I'm a little confused.


Support will tell you to buy the violins for $8 and then, as Sarah said they will put all of them into your account.


----------



## RMH

@Sarah Mancuso @jbuhler 

Thank you!
I didn't know but Adagio was a very attractive strings.


----------



## Robert_G

Thought I'd give this a try, but I don't think I'm putting the files and folders in the right spot. I keep getting 'missing files'
I have Adagio 1.6 and Anthology.
Anyone have a quick install instruction?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Robert_G said:


> Thought I'd give this a try, but I don't think I'm putting the files and folders in the right spot. I keep getting 'missing files'
> I have Adagio 1.6 and Anthology.
> Anyone have a quick install instruction?


When you get that "missing files" message you can direct kontakt to the files.


----------



## Robert_G

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> When you get that "missing files" message you can direct kontakt to the files.


I did but it wouldnt resolve


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Do you have the Agitato bundle? If not, there will be some missing files, though you can still get it to load with just Adagio and Anthology (though a few of the legato types and sustain types won't play).


----------



## Robert_G

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Do you have the Agitato bundle? If not, there will be some missing files, though you can still get it to load with just Adagio and Anthology (though a few of the legato types and sustain types won't play).


No, I don't have Agitato, but none of the samples loaded. I think I may have put your files and folders in the wrong spot, but I'm not sure.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Robert_G said:


> I did but it wouldnt resolve


I remember from my installation that finding samples dialog always got stuck.
I had to point to the Adagio/Anthology/Agitato folders multiple times during the batch resave (going back and forth between the different folders) and each time I did this it went a little bit further until all was resolved.
Do you get stuck in the missing samples dialog?

The exact location of the Adachi instrument files should not matter.


----------



## Robert_G

Manuel Stumpf said:


> The exact location of the Adachi instrument files should not matter.


I agree. I know exactly where all the samples are. Kontakt can't seem to find them. I've had to locate 'missing samples' enough times.....you'd think this would have been easy.


----------



## EvilDragon

If all else fails try the Allow alternate file types checkbox.


----------



## Robert_G

EvilDragon said:


> If all else fails try the Allow alternate file types checkbox.


didn't work


----------



## Jrides

Robert_G said:


> didn't work


8dio Has a support staff. Online chat as well. Perhaps they can help.


----------



## Robert_G

Jrides said:


> 8dio Has a support staff. Online chat as well. Perhaps they can help.


3rd party. Can't bug them about it. Besides....my regular Adagio works just fine.


----------



## biomuse

Robert_G said:


> 3rd party. Can't bug them about it. Besides....my regular Adagio works just fine.


I made a top level folder called “Adachi” with Sarah’s content in it and just dropped all of the 8dio source libraries into it in a subfolder called “8dio originals.” Choosing the Spotlight option when loading works every time.

Try to get it working if you can, it’s very well worth it.


----------



## Robert_G

biomuse said:


> I made a top level folder called “Adachi” with Sarah’s content in it and just dropped all of the 8dio source libraries into it in a subfolder called “8dio originals.” Choosing the Spotlight option when loading works every time.
> 
> Try to get it working if you can, it’s very well worth it.


Any chance you could take a print screen of your folder hierarchy?


----------



## EvilDragon

Folder hierarchy doesn't matter if it contains all the libraries within it. Kontakt would find any missing samples that match the filename wherever it is under the folder you tell it to.


----------



## jbuhler

Robert_G said:


> didn't work


It seems like you are not pointing them at the sample sets: you need to point at the Adagio sample folder and the Agitato sample folder(s). If you don't have Agitato, the Anthology sample folder.


----------



## Robert_G

jbuhler said:


> It seems like you are not pointing them at the sample sets: you need to point at the Adagio sample folder and the Agitato sample folder(s). If you don't have Agitato, the Anthology sample folder.


I think the problem is that it is looking for the Agitato files first (they are listed at the top of the 'missing files'), and the Adagio files second. I can't get it to skip the Agitato files so it can do the Adagio files.


----------



## EvilDragon

Yeah you'd have to let it go through the whole list. It can take a while, depending on how many samples and how complicated the folder structure to parse through.


----------



## Robert_G

EvilDragon said:


> Yeah you'd have to let it go through the whole list. It can take a while, depending on how many samples and how complicated the folder structure to parse through.


Thanks. Maybe I'll try that while I'm eating a meal. A watched pot never boils.


----------



## Trevor Meier

Is it true for Adachi that Anthology is not needed if I have both Adagio & Agitato? Looking to save some SSD space…


----------



## jbuhler

Trevor Meier said:


> Is it true for Adachi that Anthology is not needed if I have both Adagio & Agitato? Looking to save some SSD space…


I think that’s right.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Trevor Meier said:


> Is it true for Adachi that Anthology is not needed if I have both Adagio & Agitato? Looking to save some SSD space…


Yes, though Anthology is admittedly handy to have around for shorts, since the legacy Adagio patches are a bit unwieldy.

(Though actually, you might be able to delete the samples from Anthology and just point its NKIs at a folder with Adagio and Agitato in it...)


----------



## evilantal

Sarah Mancuso said:


> (Though actually, you might be able to delete the samples from Anthology and just point its NKIs at a folder with Adagio and Agitato in it...)


I tried this and it only works with the Adagio 2.0 samples. The older legacy samples seem to have some different namings...


----------



## Pedro Camacho

Would this work with Anthology Strings (which has both Adagio and Agitato?)
Edit: I read it doesn't work so which versions work, how can I get these samples from "zero" ?
Thank you!!


----------



## Trevor Meier

Ah OK. It would be nice to save the SSD space since there’s quite a bit of duplicated content. I want my cake and eat it too! 😂 But for now I’ll just enjoy some of these sounds. 

I’ve found a few really nice combos with Adachi. There’s quite a few that don’t quite work right (crossfades or tone don’t really match) which makes sense given just how much content is here. So it takes some hunting. But once you find the really good matches… there’s an expressiveness here that I don’t have in other libraries. 

I’m a little sad the chamber recordings didn’t seem to have the same love applied as the ensembles, as I tend to write more chamber-sized material. But what’s here is really a gem. Thanks again @Sarah Mancuso for unlocking the secrets and sharing it all with us!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

I wish there was a lot more chamber section material to play with, because I write for that size ensemble a lot, too.


----------



## Jrides

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I wish there was a lot more chamber section material to play with, because I write for that size ensemble a lot, too.


are you presently still working on this project? Is it on pause for now? Or is this more or less the final version?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Jrides said:


> are you presently still working on this project? Is it on pause for now? Or is this more or less the final version?


It's on pause for now, but there isn't much more chamber-section material than what's already in there. I can't add recordings that don't exist.


----------



## Jrides

Sarah Mancuso said:


> It's on pause for now, but there isn't much more chamber-section material than what's already in there. I can't add recordings that don't exist.


Oh sorry. I wasn’t talking specifically about the chamber stuff. Just the project in general. I figured it might be on pause with all the other stuff you have going on. Thanks!


----------



## kwencel

I have put all the Adagio (pre-2.0 versions) and Agitato volumes in the Samples folder using symlinks. I am sure I have done it right  Then I have made a batch resave with the "Check for duplicates" box ticked. I always do it that way as a precaution. As a result, I was greeted with a duplicated samples warning.





I have checked these folders of Agitato Legato Arpeggio and there are files with the same names indeed but none of them are duplicates (every file in both directories has a unique hash). What should I do in this situation? Which files should be chosen?

Obviously, I could just do the resave again without ticking "Check for duplicates" checkbox, but then the resave process will just choose the first file it encounters and I'm not sure it's the intended behavior.


----------



## kwencel

I have clicked the first option just to see what happens next. Many more conflicts appeared next, some of the duplicates are between Adagio Cellos and Adagio Basses for instance. Can we really expect the normal batch resave to work properly if Kontakt would choose the cello or bass samples depending of what comes first on one's folder hierarchy?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

I _think_ using the first samples found should be fine. I wasn't aware of this issue with basses and cellos having some shared file names, though...


----------



## AlbertSmithers

Is it possible to route the mics to the different outputs within kontakt, such as routing Close to 1/2 & Far to 3/4?

Or is the better option to just have two instances of the instrument with one mic enabled where I route each instance manually? (if the CPU load is light I think that makes sense)


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

There isn't a control in the UI to route mics to different outputs, but you can use Kontakt's own editor behind the wrench button, find the Instrument Buses section and expand it if necessary, and set the outputs on Bus 1 (Close), Bus 2 (Far), and Bus 3 (Mix) as needed. Sorry about that!

If you need to use multiple outputs, I would recommend doing this and _not_ multiple instances, to limit CPU use.


----------



## Troels Folmann

Thank you Sarah - for keeping reinvigorating these g(old)en samples. I can't wait to have them all polished up in SP and certainly learn from your lessons too. Much appreciated!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Yes yes, you loved it very much but not enough to pay me a cent for it after months of expressed interest and private discussion about it. The charm of being "thanked" for this has really worn off — you can stop patting yourself on the back that your buggy, abandoned product had to be painstakingly fixed by someone else for free.


----------



## unclecheeks

🎤👋


----------



## Evans

That was confusing until I clicked on "Show ignored content."


----------



## timbit2006

I'm finally getting around to trying out Adachi, I bought all of the old 8dio string libraries because of it. I'm just waiting on the message back from support here. I hope I can get it before the site update in case theres any problems.
Thanks for your work here, Sarah.


----------



## jamwerks

So all the Adagio & Agitato samples will be coming out in SoundPaint? Didn't know SP was a full fledged player capable of legato and art switching?


----------



## Alex_Krownway

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Yes yes, you loved it very much but not enough to pay me a cent for it after months of expressed interest and private discussion about it. The charm of being "thanked" for this has really worn off — you can stop patting yourself on the back that your buggy, abandoned product had to be painstakingly fixed by someone else for free.


Gotta be honest, at the very least they could've paid someone of their(8dio) team to do the UI. That's the only thing they do well.


Troels Folmann said:


> Thank you Sarah - for keeping reinvigorating these g(old)en samples. I can't wait to have them all polished up in SP and certainly learn from your lessons too. Much appreciated!


Ah the corporate way to say we'll steal it once its finished and polished, great move Troels, sadly its not 2010 outside.


----------



## A.Dern

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Yes yes, you loved it very much but not enough to pay me a cent for it after months of expressed interest and private discussion about it. The charm of being "thanked" for this has really worn off — you can stop patting yourself on the back that your buggy, abandoned product had to be painstakingly fixed by someone else for free.


Dang, I step away for 5 minutes and miss this epic mic drop. I aspire to this level of "no fucks given". 💕


----------



## Mike Fox

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Yes yes, you loved it very much but not enough to pay me a cent for it after months of expressed interest and private discussion about it. The charm of being "thanked" for this has really worn off — you can stop patting yourself on the back that your buggy, abandoned product had to be painstakingly fixed by someone else for free.


I don’t even have Adagio/Agitato so I haven’t been following this thread, but after reading your post, and seeing how this played out, I’ve gone ahead and donated to your project. 

Best of luck!


----------



## Troels Folmann

I am sorry. I should've crafted my previous response with more care.

I do wanna offer a couple of perspectives from a DEV point of view, since I don't think the characterization of the situation paints the entire picture.

We did reach out to Sarah in regards to potentially making Adachi a commercial product. Sarah proposed an ambitious amount which did not make sense to us. We didn't feel the quality of improvements warranted the amount either. No legato speed controls. No polyphonic legato. No UI that could be used commercially. It would take significant work to get it there and just didn't make sense to us. This is a discontinued product and I would still use Anthology over it.

I then asked Sarah if she wanted to join us on other (paid) projects - which she declined. I have no problems with that. In fact, I am glad if this thread helped demonstrate her obvious talents.

But the reality from a dev POV is we have over 300 deep-sampled products and at some point, support ceases for discontinued legacy products that are over a decade old. Think how quickly support stops for much bigger entities than us.

In fact, let me quote Sarah's own words in the beginning of this thread:

"Please do not bother 8Dio support about any problems you run into with Adachi. This isn't their responsibility (of course). This is a fan project based on a discontinued product."

But I also wanna reflect on my own, poor, choice of words.

What I meant to say was that I really admire Sarah for her commitment to this product. I realize it might've sounded like we wanted to use it without compensating her. This is not the case and I apologize for the misleading choice of words.

What I meant to say was just that I appreciate her work and it has inspired me to go back and look at libraries we've discontinued. It does not mean we want to use her code.

Ps. Thanks, LamaRose for making me aware of the donation page, which I was not aware of.

Just donated $500 to Sarah on Paypal in support of her work. Certainly did not intend to step on anyone's feet here.


----------



## LamaRose

Incredible accomplishment, Sarah. Indeed, the Adagio library has some extraordinary samples/patches... from what I've heard, you've magically made them better. Might induce me to finally move up to K6.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Troels Folmann said:


> This is a discontinued product and I would still use Anthology over it.


Anthology and all the other versions of Agadio/Agitato have a lot going for it but Adachi is far and away the better legato version imo. Maybe (and it's a big maybe since this is really about just glueing natural performances together) the only feature I'd use is legato speed but only if it really improved things. 2 cents


----------



## Rudianos

One of the most beautiful potential developments in all of VI history happening right here. Will the players do what it takes to take it to the next level?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Troels Folmann said:


> We did reach out to Sarah in regards to potentially making Adachi a commercial product. Sarah proposed an ambitious amount which did not make sense to us. We didn't feel the quality of improvements warranted the amount either. No legato speed controls. No polyphonic legato. No UI that could be used commercially. It would take significant work to get it there and just didn't make sense to us. This is a discontinued product and I would still use Anthology over it.


I should do some clarification of my own, since some of this is inaccurate.

I reached out to Troels myself about Adachi in March of 2021, thinking 8Dio might have interest in it. (It was still fairly early in development at that point — I did much more while waiting for an official word on whether 8Dio would be buying it.) I only announced it to the public many months later, after the potential deal had officially fallen through.

I recall you yourself told me that I had made these samples sing like you had never heard them before. 

Rather than a manual legato speed control, Adachi features an ambitious system (which took weeks of development on its own) that locks all of its legato types to the same timing, regardless of their actual speed, and delays the initial note of a phrase so that the entire track can be slid back by a consistent amount with no note-nudging. This is similar to the lookahead behavior found in some modern libraries, or to the multiscripts that lock CSS's varied legato speeds together.

Based on the existence of the above system, I mentioned that polyphonic legato would be challenging (but not impossible) to implement. I did say that legato speed itself would be possible to implement with some work, though I recommended against it as it would make the patches very RAM-hungry due to all of the legato types included.

My proposal included an Anthology-styled UI mockup tailored to Adachi's enhanced articulation-switching features.

Countless hours of work over many months were put into re-timing many of Adagio's legato samples, which were very inconsistent in their original and Anthology forms. Certain legato types were also performed with such inconsistent dynamics that as much as a 6db(!) adjustment was required to make up-intervals and down-intervals sound consistently with each other, which was not the case in their official incarnations. This was often a case of setting aside several hours to go through every single sample individually, testing them in a performance, and manually adjusting their timing and volume in Kontakt's editor until they sounded right.

I would not recommend using Anthology over Adachi for legato parts. This is a comparison I did between Anthology and Adachi, both using the 4xRR "Instinct" sample set from the ensemble violins. These are the same legato recordings; I'm not sure what Anthology is doing with them here.

Adachi Violins Instinct:
View attachment Adachi_Violins_Instinct.mp3


Anthology Violins Instinct ("Legato II"):
View attachment Anthology_Violins_Legato2.mp3


The donation made, while certainly appreciated, effectively amounts to a single sale of one of 8Dio's products. 8Dio is one of the biggest players in this industry, and my proposal was an amount that every other developer I've spoken with has told me was either reasonable or far too little for the ~10 months of heavy development that went into Adachi (plus however many months would be required to polish it for a public release). This thread alone has resulted in quite a few sales of Anthology and Agitato. I suspect that an official Anthology overhaul with this feature set would do pretty well.


----------



## EvilDragon

One of the most epic mic drops in the history of VI-C.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

Sarah Mancuso said:


> This thread alone has resulted in quite a few sales of Anthology and Agitato. I suspect that an official Anthology overhaul with this feature set would do pretty well.


Regarding the point of sales of Anthology and Agitato generated I have to agree with you. I think without @robgb initial thread on dissuading him from buying Anthology (and the “legacy” Adagio), I would certainly never have bought it, and I’m sure many other members here would be the same. Without that thread, I would never have known about your “work” on Adagio/Agitato and how it improved the libraries!


----------



## el-bo

EvilDragon said:


> One of the most epic mic drops in the history of VI-C.


Really?

Seems like an unfortunate end to a situation in which both parties are responsible for mistakes/missteps.

The last thing that’s needed is the throng, baying for blood.


----------



## EvilDragon

I can't see where Sarah misstepped at all, so...


----------



## CT

bOtH sIdEs aRe bAd


----------



## jamwerks

Can't wait to put Adachi (back) in my template). Thanks Sarah !


----------



## el-bo

…edited out. Just the words of an idiot


----------



## Stevie

This has never been a fan project. Sarah made this for her OWN use and was so kind to release it to the public. She stated that in one of her posts. But everything has its limits. She basically made it work for herself in the beinning and then added features that were requested from the community.


----------



## el-bo

…edited out. Just the words of an idiot


----------



## Stevie

What I wanted to point out is: she could have stopped development way earlier, because Sarah was actually happy with what she got at that point. I think she was surprised by the huge interest in her work. As a consequence she put more work into it and gave support here on the forums.

The remark about the fan project is a bit out of context. I just read it again. For my understanding this was used to set her work apart from 8dios, in order to prevent people from contacting the 8dio support.




> Please do not bother 8Dio support about any problems you run into with Adachi.





> This isn't their responsibility (of course). This is a fan project based on a discontinued product.


----------



## el-bo

edited out. Just the words of an idiot


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

As Stevie mentions, the "fan project" thing was mainly me trying to avoid stepping on toes with releasing this.

I definitely don't have any regrets about making this or sharing it with VI-Control. It was something I wanted to have for myself, mainly, and I'm happy that other people have gotten enjoyment out of it.

If anything, I could say I regret holding out hope for a deal instead of taking zircon's job offer a few months sooner, but that's a pretty minor regret!


----------



## Markrs

I hope that some kind of arrangement can still be made with 8Dio, as I think this project shows what can be done to resurrect an older, less refined sample library and bring it up to modern standards.

I'm glad you don't have any regrets, Sarah. Even when things don't work out as we hoped, if possible, it is always good to take the positive from an experience as well as the things we learn from it.


----------



## jamwerks

Just to be sure, the samples at the base of Adachi are: (?)

Adagio Violins 1.6
Adagio Violas 1.0
Adagio Celli 1.6
Adagio Basses 1.0

What are the version numbers of Agitato needed? Also, are any samples from Agitato Arpeggio used? 

Thanks!


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

jamwerks said:


> Just to be sure, the samples at the base of Adachi are: (?)
> 
> Adagio Violins 1.6
> Adagio Violas 1.0
> Adagio Celli 1.6
> Adagio Basses 1.0
> 
> What are the version numbers of Agitato needed? Also, are any samples from Agitato Arpeggio used?
> 
> Thanks!


Those should work. I don’t know about Agitato versions, whichever ones they’re selling should work. Agitato Arpeggio is used for fast legato.


----------



## jamwerks

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Those should work. I don’t know about Agitato versions, whichever ones they’re selling should work. Agitato Arpeggio is used for fast legato.


Great thanks. I own all of Adagio & Agitato, and had taken it all out of my template (except Agitato Arp), so am re-downloading. Excited to use this again!!


----------



## Johnny

el-bo said:


> But it still amounts to the same thing, in the sense that it wasn’t done with any financial gain in mind…right?


Fair points raised. In my own perspective, isn't that the sole reason why we as composers spend countless hours working on a piece of music and posting it online? For the chance of hopefully someone hearing our work/seeing the potential in what we have to offer? There's always a risk involved devoting that amount of time into anything in life- sample library polishing included. Most people wouldn't attempt that amount of work without somewhere deep in the back of their mind thinking, "If anything, maybe this can eventually lead to a great demo reel and/or sales pitch? Even potential monetary gain or passion project/shared acquisition from the developer?" I am acknowledging that this is a lot of work for nothing, and anyone would have the hopes of being noticed or recognized for this amount of detailed work and polish. I don't see anything wrong with saying that this is a fan based project, with the intention for potential generated income or sales in mind as an end result- either picked up by a potential buyer or noted for future opportunities/career growth. How many countless composer reels are on Youtube with scenes derived from movies that say, "Mock up" or "Scoring Example-- Private use only" Composers are definitely posting examples of work with the hope of being considered for future work opportunities. I don't see anything wrong with a VI member doing the same, polishing and posting a commercially released sample library instead of a scoring example. In the end they only are making the product better


----------



## el-bo

edited…just the words of an idiot


----------



## wlinart

el-bo said:


> Either way, i don't see why T should've been obligated to pay an amount based on that initial huge body of work, for a project he never commissioned in the first place, and which seems to have been presented to him as a labour-of-love. in the event of them moving forward with an official product, how payment was handled from then on, would obviously be a different thing entirely. And, to be clear, I'm certainly not saying Sarah shouldn't have been compensated for the initial work at all.
> 
> And that T offered S payment for the work, as well as future paid work speaks to your original points about how this is often the way things work.
> 
> Even before Adachi, the availability of the cheap Legacy cross-grade was such a great gift. Adachi seems to have made it even more-so (I've yet to try it). it's a shame it has come to such a sour ending


This thread has more than 500 replies and almost 40k views. A lot of people (myself included) have bought adagio, agitato or both thanks to this thread. So Troels got a lot of money out of this. He wasn't obligated to pay Sarah, and didn't. Which is shame, because together they could have made something even better i think. Than Sarah released it without the help of Troels or 8dio. For free. Awesome for us of course. And Sarah got some donations out of it.

Now Troels posts a thank you note, and hints at taking the work that Sarah has done, and implements it in their own version in soundpaint. That leaves a very sour taste. They already made a lot of money thanks to adachi. Now they want to get the work from Sarah basically for free, and make more money out of it. That's what's wrong with the whole response. And after the amazing mic drop from Sarah, Troels got some backlash, and donated less than only 1 of the libraries needed for adachi is worth. They just ripped her off, and want to do it again. And get praised for it at the same time.


----------



## EgM

Is there any reason for drama in this thread? Both parties have explained their side and none of us have any business judging either because we weren't present in any dealings.


----------



## Batrawi

wlinart said:


> Now they want to get the work from Sarah basically for free, and make more money out of it. That's what's wrong with the whole response.


I don't understand this logic.. So if a consultant have voluntarily shared some valuable knowledge/advices with you which you then implement in your future projects... would that make you indebted to him? would that really count as "stealing" someone else's work?
I thought it's common sense to think that "What have been offered voluntarily can only be awarded voluntarily"... simple as that! What doesn't make any sense to me on the other hand, is when you're supposedly having a one-2-one private discussion with a developer then you suddenly decide to push him on the stage and make him forced to explain himself on something that he didn't ask for nor started in the first place to a wide crowd who have no clue about such discussion as they SHOULDN'T be part of it in the first place as well...


----------



## CT

EgM said:


> Is there any reason for drama in this thread? Both parties have explained their side and none of us have any business judging either because we weren't present in any dealings.


There's not even any need to judge. It's a pretty clear situation with the unreasonable behavior coming firmly from one party, leading to a breaking point.

Sarah went through immense effort (incidentally, sorry if my musings about Adagio back then helped to motivate this...) to turn a half-baked collection of sounds into something sensible. Now the base product is presumably seeing a bit of a renaissance, with more plans to capitalize on that from the developer, and she's left in the lurch, with an occasional obligatory nod in her direction.

I can well imagine feeling a little fed up with lip service after a while, and being compelled to say something. I wonder if everyone else here is possessed of such sound mind and temperament as to be able to avoid that kind of reaction in the same situation. No, in reality there is not much room to moralize and pseudo-philosophize here, as if the justness of her actions is something that needs to be carefully weighed out. But I suppose VI-Control will do its thing.


----------



## el-bo

I've removed various of my posts in this thread. Apologies to both Sarah and Troels if I misrepresented their positions, actions etc.


----------



## EvilDragon

That doesn't really help with following the flow of the conversation, you know?


----------



## el-bo

EvilDragon said:


> That doesn't really help with following the flow of the conversation, you know?


Yes, I know.

I thought there was a conversation to be had. Turns out I was wrong. 

My initial instinct was that there was not enough information about the back-and-forth communications between both people to form an opinion. I should’ve stuck with that feeling and kept my mouth shut.

But perhaps you should go back to your comment I originally responded to, before making out that you’re interested in any kind of conversation.

Anyway…I'm out.


----------



## robgb

Leslie Fuller said:


> Regarding the point of sales of Anthology and Agitato generated I have to agree with you. I think without @robgb initial thread on dissuading him from buying Anthology (and the “legacy” Adagio), I would certainly never have bought it, and I’m sure many other members here would be the same. Without that thread, I would never have known about your “work” on Adagio/Agitato and how it improved the libraries!


Yeah, I'm still waiting for my donation. I figure an ALL CLAIRE freebee would be nice, along with CENTURY STRINGS. I don't ask for much for generating all those sales...


----------



## jadedsean

I would also like to say, i bought these samples purley because of Sarah's work. As Troels mentioned himself, these samples were recorded 10 years ago and i would never have bought them if not for the work she carried out bringing them back to life. I think a large proportion of this thread bought these libraies not becauce of 8dio but rather because of Sarah's demos, which by BTW sound amazing.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Just imagine if 8Dio had picked this up and promoted it etc.. I don't get it. I mean the hard work was done and the demos are really impressive. The RR legato patch in the demos are very convincing and that's pretty unique in the sampling world. You'd think people would be all over this. Anyway, I'm not in the biz so what do i know. 

Also, there seem to be plenty of legato variations so i don't think legato speed is necessary.


----------



## Alex_Krownway

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I should do some clarification of my own, since some of this is inaccurate.
> 
> I reached out to Troels myself about Adachi in March of 2021, thinking 8Dio might have interest in it. (It was still fairly early in development at that point — I did much more while waiting for an official word on whether 8Dio would be buying it.) I only announced it to the public many months later, after the potential deal had officially fallen through.
> 
> I recall you yourself told me that I had made these samples sing like you had never heard them before.


Imma quote DankPods here:


> _"The biggest companies make the worst crap."_


----------



## monochrome

thank you for making this! I got the libraries needed (besides agitato grandiose) just for this a couple days ago and just finished setting up my template :D

I love the way it sounds and how it plays already after just messing around for a little bit 

here's something I started so far making use of adachi !

View attachment the air from the vantage point.mp3


----------



## oceanic714

monochrome said:


> thank you for making this! I got the libraries needed (besides agitato grandiose) just for this a couple days ago and just finished setting up my template :D
> 
> I love the way it sounds and how it plays already after just messing around for a little bit
> 
> here's something I started so far making use of adachi !
> 
> View attachment the air from the vantage point.mp3


Love the writing! Also, whatever the wind instruments are they blend real well with 8dio's strings.


----------



## monochrome

oceanic714 said:


> Love the writing! Also, whatever the wind instruments are they blend real well with 8dio's strings.


thank you so much! winds and brass are both AV infinite woodwinds and infinite brass ! I think it's probably easy to make those blend with anything


----------



## oceanic714

I too have jumped on the Adachi train, thank you Sarah! Here's how they fare with some Michael Kamen.


----------



## Montisquirrel

I want to jump on the Adachi train and I just checked what I already have. Looks like I am only missing "Agitato Cellos" and "Agitato Legato Arpeggio". Are the Agitato Arpeggios really needed for Adachi or may I skip these?


----------



## Johnny

Montisquirrel said:


> I want to jump on the Adachi train and I just checked what I already have. Looks like I am only missing "Agitato Cellos" and "Agitato Legato Arpeggio". Are the Agitato Arpeggios really needed for Adachi or may I skip these?


The arpeggios are paramount for fast playing when you require fast legato transitions, not necessary if you are only performing slower passages.


----------



## Montisquirrel

Johnny said:


> The arpeggios are paramount for fast playing when you require fast legato transitions, not necessary if you are only performing slower passages.


Thanks for your reply. They are on sale for 18€ anyway, so it doesnt really hurt.


----------



## Johnny

Montisquirrel said:


> Thanks for your reply. They are on sale for 18€ anyway, so it doesnt really hurt.



Yes! Haha, the price is right


----------



## axb312

So, to make Adachi work, one needs to own:

1. Adagio Violins 2.0
2. Adagio Violas 2.0
3. Adagio Cellos 2.0
4. Adagio Basses 2.0
5. Agitato All Bundle


Further, one has to request 8Dio support to send across the 1.6 versions of the Adagio strings...

Is this correct?


----------



## wlinart

axb312 said:


> So, to make Adachi work, one needs to own:
> 
> 1. Adagio Violins 2.0
> 2. Adagio Violas 2.0
> 3. Adagio Cellos 2.0
> 4. Adagio Basses 2.0
> 5. Agitato All Bundle
> 
> 
> Further, one has to request 8Dio support to send across the 1.6 versions of the Adagio strings...
> 
> Is this correct?


or anthology and agitato, and in that case the agitato sordino is not needed extra. So that's a bit cheaper. EDT: with adagio 2.0 agitato sordino is also not needed


----------



## axb312

wlinart said:


> or anthology and agitato, and in that case the agitato sordino is not needed extra. So that's a bit cheaper. EDT: with adagio 2.0 agitato sordino is also not needed


Do you mind providing specific product links?


----------



## wlinart

axb312 said:


> Do you mind providing specific product links?


Sure.
If you don't own any of the products right now. 
Buy anthology, agitato violins, violas, cellos and legato arpeggio. Than request the crossgrade to adagio 1.6 and you've got everything for $204.


----------



## Ricgus3

monochrome said:


> thank you for making this! I got the libraries needed (besides agitato grandiose) just for this a couple days ago and just finished setting up my template :D
> 
> I love the way it sounds and how it plays already after just messing around for a little bit
> 
> here's something I started so far making use of adachi !
> 
> View attachment the air from the vantage point.mp3


Love this sound of the composition! Tight up my alley


----------



## monochrome

Ricgus3 said:


> Love this sound of the composition! Tight up my alley


thank you !


----------



## Corda1983

Yet another question about libraries you need to make Adachi work but:

I’ve bought Anthology and the Agitato libraries, and will request my crossgrade to legacy Adagio (1.6 I think?). Do I need to download and install Anthology for Adachi to work, or can I just download the Agitato series and Adagio 1.6 and have everything I need?


----------



## Ricgus3

Corda1983 said:


> Yet another question about libraries you need to make Adachi work but:
> 
> I’ve bought Anthology and the Agitato libraries, and will request my crossgrade to legacy Adagio (1.6 I think?). Do I need to download and install Anthology for Adachi to work, or can I just download the Agitato series and Adagio 1.6 and have everything I need?


If you have all the Agitato (sordino aswell) I don''t think you need anthology at all. Anthology was mainöly cause they contained the Sordinos from Agitato (amybesomething else aswell?) So you should be good with just Adagio 1.6 and Agitato serie. Put them all in the same folder though. Easier for adachi to find it if it is in the same folder as Adachi


----------



## Gerbil

Ricgus3 said:


> Love this sound of the composition! Tight up my alley


*




*


----------



## Markrs

With the 8Dio sale I might consider getting Agitato bundle (probably with Artisan Brass or AGE bundle) to be able to fully use Adachi. At 70% off it is only $74


----------



## pranic

Markrs said:


> With the 8Dio sale I might consider getting Agitato bundle (probably with Artisan Brass or AGE bundle) to be able to fully use Adachi. At 70% off it is only $74


The Artisan Brass is an excellent choice (euphoniums ftw), btw! Adachi is so nice, too. I don't think you'll be dissappointed. _Though, AGE is a great choice too... All of them are usually at the ready on my computer._


----------



## Alex_Krownway

maybe we'll see some custom design & ui for this one day


----------



## Ricgus3

Alex_Krownway said:


> maybe we'll see some custom design & ui for this one day


Only if someone here makes it. I don’t think Sarah will work on this anymore. Adachi is amazing but it is a fan project, so only the fans will keep it shiny and polished


----------



## Ricgus3

Hi all! Anyone know if I can set the dynamic to another CC instead of CC1(mod wheel)? Tried looking inside kontakt but I have a hard time figuring out what is what


----------



## EvilDragon

You can reroute another CC to CC1 via a Transformer multiscript. That is, unless you want to use CC1 for something else?


----------



## Ricgus3

A minor said:


> install, just got some





EvilDragon said:


> You can reroute another CC to CC1 via a Transformer multiscript. That is, unless you want to use CC1 for something else?


Bo, i Walt to resroute CC1 to CC2. So Breath would control the dynamic instead of the mod wheel


----------



## Vladinemir

I was wondering if someone would offer @Sarah Mancuso a job after creating Adachi and just heard she was involved in creation of Tokyo Scoring String. Maybe that's old news but I'm so glad anyway although I though some other company (ahem, 8Dio) would do that first. Well, hopefully they plan that too.


----------



## lettucehat

Vladinemir said:


> I was wondering if someone would offer @Sarah Mancuso a job after creating Adachi and just heard she was involved in creation of Tokyo Scoring String. Maybe that's old news but I'm so glad anyway although I though some other company (ahem, 8Dio) would do that first. Well, hopefully they plan that too.


you might want to check out page 26 🍿


----------



## Vladinemir

Oh nooooo. Epic bummer. It feels like everybody lost with outcome like this.
At least my ignorance was entertaining to other members. From now on there should be written "King of being late to the party" below my name. Feel free to post GIFs.


----------



## carlc

I am finally starting to explore Adachi and am loving it so far. I have read through 20 of the 29 pages in this VI-C thread, with 9 more to go. One of the requests that seems to come up frequently is for a User Manual. Since I am working through the process myself and learning Adachi, why not capture my notes in an organized format? With that in mind, I created a very very rough initial draft.

@Sarah Mancuso I hope you don't mind that I started this. If this is not appropriate, please let me know and I will remove it. Otherwise, I'll plan to continue updating the PDF document here as I go. If there are changes you would like to see, or a different approach, feel free to reply here or send me a DM on VI-C. I can also share a link to the native file on Google Drive if others wish to collaborate.

Hopefully, this is not a duplicate effort! I still have 9 pages to read in the VI-C thread, and I believe there is also a parallel discussion going on Discord. So far I am not aware of another User Manual being drafted. If there is, I am happy to take what I have so far and merge it into another document.

*Table of Contents:*
1. Welcome
2. Speciﬁcations & System Requirements
3. Downloading & Installing
4. Locating Samples in Kontakt
5. Adachi UI Overview
6. Managing Key Switches in Adachi
7. Advanced/Developer Controls
Appendix A: FAQ and Troubleshooting
Appendix B: Brief History of Adagio and Agitato
Appendix C: List of Adachi Articulations

EDIT 05-Sep-2022: Draft 04 is attached below; thanks @EvilDragon for the tips!


----------



## alcorey

carlc said:


> I am finally starting to explore Adachi and am loving it so far. I have read through 20 of the 29 pages in this VI-C thread, with 9 more to go. One of the requests that seems to come up frequently is for a User Manual. Since I am working through the process myself and learning Adachi, why not start to capture this in a more organized format? With that in mind, I created a very very rough initial draft.
> 
> @Sarah Mancuso I hope you don't mind that I started this. If this is not appropriate, please let me know and I will remove it. Otherwise, I'll plan to continue updating the PDF document here as I go. If there are changes you would like to see, or a different approach, feel free to reply here or send me a DM on VI-C. I can also share a link to the native file on Google Drive if others wish to collaborate.
> 
> Hopefully, this is not a duplicate effort! I still have 9 pages to read in the VI-C thread, and I believe there is also a parallel discussion going on Discord. So far I am not aware of another User Manual being drafted. If there is, I am happy to take what I have so far and merge it into another document.
> 
> *Table of Contents:*
> 1. Welcome
> 2. Speciﬁcations & System Requirements
> 3. Downloading & Installing
> 4. Locating Samples in Kontakt
> 5. Adachi UI Overview
> 6. Managing Key Switches in Adachi
> 7. Advanced/Developer Controls
> Appendix A: FAQ and Troubleshooting
> Appendix B: Brief History of Adagio and Agitato
> Appendix C: List of Adachi Articulations


Awesome! Another wonderful example of giving to the community, Along with Sarah's adventurous and extremely cumbersome efforts to turn this library into something way beyond what it was at birth! 
My hat absolutely tips to the both of you.


----------



## EvilDragon

Vladinemir said:


> Oh nooooo. Epic bummer. It feels like everybody lost with outcome like this.


Well, Sarah and Impact Soundworks didn't lose.


----------



## EvilDragon

carlc said:


> *Table of Contents:*
> 1. Welcome
> 2. Speciﬁcations & System Requirements
> 3. Downloading & Installing
> 4. Locating Samples in Kontakt
> 5. Adachi UI Overview
> 6. Managing Key Switches in Adachi
> 7. Advanced/Developer Controls
> Appendix A: FAQ and Troubleshooting
> Appendix B: Brief History of Adagio and Agitato
> Appendix C: List of Adachi Articulations



In section 4 you should probably just explain the batch resave procedure. There is no need to go about this one by one NKI.

(And to answer another of your questions from the manual - Absolute sample paths should always be unchecked. Always!)


----------



## carlc

EvilDragon said:


> In section 4 you should probably just explain the batch resave procedure. There is no need to go about this one by one NKI.


Thanks for the reply! I am a huge fan of batch re-save. I'm thinking that in this case, however, it may be problematic. Please let me know what you think... For my installation, Kontakt found 624 duplicates scattered across the 13 NKIs. The duplicates also cross over between instruments (e.g., samples in the cello instrument named the same as samples in the bass instrument). When I am fixing this manually, I know that I opened a cello NKI, so I can make intelligent choices to resolve the duplicates. Since the pathnames are presented alphabetically (I believe), the first choice is not always the correct choice. When I attempt this via batch re-save, I can still ask Kontakt to check for dup's but I'm not sure which instrument Kontakt is considering when it presents me with a dialog box to resolve the dup. I would likely make wrong choices without knowing the instrument. Am I thinking about this correctly? If so, is there a better approach to resolve the duplicates?



EvilDragon said:


> (And to answer another of your questions from the manual - Absolute sample paths should always be unchecked. Always!)


Thanks! Will clarify that for the next update.


----------



## EvilDragon

carlc said:


> For my installation, Kontakt found 624 duplicates scattered across the 13 NKIs. The duplicates also cross over between instruments (e.g., samples in the cello instrument named the same as samples in the bass instrument)


Oh gosh, that thing... Yeah not using unique names per instrument is NOT a good development practice... Right in that case going individually is going to be safer, if not quite a lot more annoying.


----------



## carlc

EvilDragon said:


> Oh gosh, that thing... Yeah not using unique names per instrument is NOT a good development practice... Right in that case going individually is going to be safer, if not quite a lot more annoying.


Totally agree! I will need to spend some time digging into the directories. Since I have multiple libraries housed in the same Samples folder (Adagio legacy and Agitato), it is probably a mix of true duplicates along with some faux duplicates created by poor naming discipline.


----------



## Montisquirrel

carlc said:


> I am finally starting to explore Adachi and am loving it so far. I have read through 20 of the 29 pages in this VI-C thread, with 9 more to go. One of the requests that seems to come up frequently is for a User Manual. Since I am working through the process myself and learning Adachi, why not start to capture this in a more organized format? With that in mind, I created a very very rough initial draft.
> 
> @Sarah Mancuso I hope you don't mind that I started this. If this is not appropriate, please let me know and I will remove it. Otherwise, I'll plan to continue updating the PDF document here as I go. If there are changes you would like to see, or a different approach, feel free to reply here or send me a DM on VI-C. I can also share a link to the native file on Google Drive if others wish to collaborate.
> 
> Hopefully, this is not a duplicate effort! I still have 9 pages to read in the VI-C thread, and I believe there is also a parallel discussion going on Discord. So far I am not aware of another User Manual being drafted. If there is, I am happy to take what I have so far and merge it into another document.
> 
> *Table of Contents:*
> 1. Welcome
> 2. Speciﬁcations & System Requirements
> 3. Downloading & Installing
> 4. Locating Samples in Kontakt
> 5. Adachi UI Overview
> 6. Managing Key Switches in Adachi
> 7. Advanced/Developer Controls
> Appendix A: FAQ and Troubleshooting
> Appendix B: Brief History of Adagio and Agitato
> Appendix C: List of Adachi Articulations
> 
> EDIT 05-Sep-2022: Draft 04 is attached below; thanks @EvilDragon for the tips!


Wow. Thank you so much for doing this. I have downloaded Adachi and played around for a little bit, but you PDF will help me to dive deep into this. 

by the way: I only have Adagio Cellos and Violins 1.5, not 1.6. It seams to be no problem right now when I open the instrument. Does it make sense to get 1.6 anyway?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

If it loads, it's probably fine.


----------



## ScarletJerry

I am trying to make an “Adachi only” folder, and I believe that since I have all of the legacy Adagio content and Agitato content, then I can remove Anthology, the new Adagio, Adagietto, and Agitato Sordino, correct? I want to keep Adachi and the required files on my hard drive and move my other 8Dio string libraries to an external disk (making them “optional” so I can use them as needed).


----------



## carlc

ScarletJerry said:


> I am trying to make an “Adachi only” folder, and I believe that since I have all of the legacy Adagio content and Agitato content, then I can remove Anthology, the new Adagio, Adagietto, and Agitato Sordino, correct? I want to keep Adachi and the required files on my hard drive and move my other 8Dio string libraries to an external disk (making them “optional” so I can use them as needed).


I am fairly certain you are correct, with the only question being the Agitato Sordino samples. If you have the full set of Adagio legacy libraries and the other Agitato libraries, you don’t need Anthology or Adagietto.

As a simple test, move the sample sets in question out of the path so Adachi can no longer see them. Open each of the Adachi NKI files. You may get some alerts from Kontakt to re-map but hopefully it can find what it needs in the remaining samples. If not, try putting the Agitato Sordino samples back.

FWIW, I am leaving all of the Agitato and legacy Adagio content in place on the off chance there is an Adachi expansion, I will have the samples ready and waiting


----------



## ScarletJerry

carlc said:


> I am fairly certain you are correct, with the only question being the Agitato Sordino samples. If you have the full set of Adagio legacy libraries and the other Agitato libraries, you don’t need Anthology or Adagietto.
> 
> As a simple test, move the sample sets in question out of the path so Adachi can no longer see them. Open each of the Adachi NKI files. You may get some alerts from Kontakt to re-map but hopefully it can find what it needs in the remaining samples. If not, try putting the Agitato Sordino samples back.
> 
> FWIW, I am leaving all of the Agitato and legacy Adagio content in place on the off chance there is an Adachi expansion, I will have the samples ready and waiting


Thanks @carlc I actually thought about doing that. I have a 1 TB drive on my computer, and my 8Dio string libraries take up more than 20% of the space. The problem is that all of them have some kind of special articulation that I really like, but it may be more productive to reduce my instrument selections.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## carlc

Montisquirrel said:


> Wow. Thank you so much for doing this. I have downloaded Adachi and played around for a little bit, but you PDF will help me to dive deep into this.
> 
> by the way: I only have Adagio Cellos and Violins 1.5, not 1.6. It seams to be no problem right now when I open the instrument. Does it make sense to get 1.6 anyway?


Regarding the PDF, the hard work was already done. I just had to copy the previous answers from Sarah and a few others into one document 

To clarify the 1.5 vs. 1.6 versioning for Adagio violins & cellos celli, it is likely a very minor change. The difference is not even acknowledged in the product history. Also, the v1.6 downloads still come with documentation for v1.5. My guess is that 8Dio made minor fixes to the instruments (NKI files), but probably not to the samples. Also, the version numbers for the Adagio basses & violas are different since those came out later.

If you are only using Adachi and not the legacy Adagio, then you can probably ignore the v1.6 difference. If you are actually using the legacy Adagio instruments (not just the samples), then I would go ahead and download v1.6. It's a free update.


----------



## Yogevs

Are there installation instructions?


----------



## rrichard63

Yogevs said:


> Are there installation instructions?


See posts #31 through #33 above. It worked for me.






Adachi: Custom legato for Adagio+Agitato // Nov 4 update with rebowing and 2 unreleased cello legatos (page 17)


Holy #*?X%& ... I haven't tried it, because I don't have Kontakt 6 (yet). But thank you very much for offering it for free. Always loved the different arc legatos and really wished for something like this in 8Dio's Century series.




vi-control.net


----------



## carlc

Yogevs said:


> Are there installation instructions?





rrichard63 said:


> See posts #31 through #33 above. It worked for me.


See also sections 3 and 4 of the (unofficial) user manual. I am working on a script that will do a better job of sorting out the duplicate samples, but it’s not ready to post yet.

EDIT: The first mention of the user manual is on page 29 of this thread:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...sed-cello-legatos-page-17.116094/post-5175191


----------



## KenV

I know that this has been asked what seems like a million times, but after having purchased Anthology and the Agitato bundle and asked for the Adagio crossgrade, I am stupidly still not exactly sure what I need to download to make Adachi work.

The *relevant *downloads that appear on my account page are:
In the "Strings" section:
Agitato All Bundle
Agitato Sordino Strings

In the "Archive" section:
8dio Adagio Legacy Basses
8dio Adagio Legacy Cellos
8dio Adagio Legacy Violas
8dio Adagio Legacy Violins
8Dio Agitato Grandiose Legato ALL Bundle (Ensemble & Divisi Violins, Violas & Cellos)
8Dio Agitato Legato Arpeggio

Is it the Agitato All Bundle and the 4 Legacy string instruments? Or is there something more (or less) that I need? Thanks and I apologize for asking again.


----------



## carlc

Chapter 2 of the user manual has a screenshot and should answer your question. If not, let me know and we can look to further clarify that chapter.


----------



## KenV

carlc said:


> Chapter 2 of the user manual has a screenshot and should answer your question. If not, let me know and we can look to further clarify that chapter.


Thanks so much. Exactly what I needed!
It almost seems like they are extracting out into the user’s “Archive” the specific pieces needed for Adachi (except the Grandiose Viola Legato).


----------



## Yogevs

KenV said:


> I know that this has been asked what seems like a million times, but after having purchased Anthology and the Agitato bundle and asked for the Adagio crossgrade, I am stupidly still not exactly sure what I need to download to make Adachi work.
> 
> The *relevant *downloads that appear on my account page are:
> In the "Strings" section:
> Agitato All Bundle
> Agitato Sordino Strings
> 
> In the "Archive" section:
> 8dio Adagio Legacy Basses
> 8dio Adagio Legacy Cellos
> 8dio Adagio Legacy Violas
> 8dio Adagio Legacy Violins
> 8Dio Agitato Grandiose Legato ALL Bundle (Ensemble & Divisi Violins, Violas & Cellos)
> 8Dio Agitato Legato Arpeggio
> 
> Is it the Agitato All Bundle and the 4 Legacy string instruments? Or is there something more (or less) that I need? Thanks and I apologize for asking again.


How did you get Agitato? I only have Adagio...

Also, do I need Adagio 2.0 or Adagio Legacy.
What (writing it "out loud") is Adagio 2.0 - Agitato ?


----------



## KenV

Yogevs said:


> How did you get Agitato? I only have Adagio...
> 
> Also, do I need Adagio 2.0 or Adagio Legacy.
> What (writing it "out loud") is Adagio 2.0 - Agitato ?


I purchased both Anthology Strings and the Strings Agitato bundle and then asked for the crossgrade and that's what showed up. *You need Adagio Legacy*. Here's a screenshot from @carlc 's excellent manual v4:


----------



## Yogevs

Ok - I didn't realise there's an extra product called Agitato. Just checked. I don't own it (it's on sale for $75 now). Going to skip it probably.

Now I'm not sure if I need Adagio Legacy or 2.0


----------



## EgM

Yogevs said:


> Ok - I didn't realise there's an extra product called Agitato. Just checked. I don't own it (it's on sale for $75 now). Going to skip it probably.
> 
> Now I'm not sure if I need Adagio Legacy or 2.0



Read the first post of this thread carefully, it's written in bold letters


----------



## Yogevs

EgM said:


> Read the first post of this thread carefully, it's written in bold letters


Missed the part where I need Agitato. Thought Adagio is enough. I guess I can't use Adachi then... Not unless I want to spend $75


----------



## Vladinemir

You can buy them separately.


----------



## Yogevs

Vladinemir said:


> You can buy them separately.


They currently cost $75 if I'm not mistaken


----------



## carlc

Yogevs said:


> Missed the part where I need Agitato. Thought Adagio is enough. I guess I can't use Adachi then... Not unless I want to spend $75


You can still use Adachi without buying the Agitato content, but certain combinations will be impacted by the missing samples.

Also, if you look at the screenshot shared above, only portions of the Agitato bundle are used by Adachi. You can save a bit by buying those individually.


----------



## Vladinemir

Yogevs said:


> They currently cost $75 if I'm not mistaken


Yes, but you don't have to buy all of them.








Agitato Grandiose Legato Ensemble & Divisi Violins


Agitato Grandiose Legato Violins for Kontakt (VST, AU, AAX) is inspired by the soaring melodic styles of Williams and Mancini. The goal of these libraries is to nail that fast, soaring, melodic Hollywood legato we’ve always wanted. This collection features 14 different legatos and 2 Violin...




8dio.com












Agitato Grandiose Legato Ensemble & Divisi Cellos


Agitato Grandiose Legato for Cellos for Kontakt (VST/AU/AAX) is inspired by the soaring melodic styles of Williams and Mancini. The concept of these libraries is to nail that fast, soaring, melodic Hollywood legato we’ve always wanted. This library features 14 different legatos and 2 cello...




8dio.com












Agitato Legato Arpeggio


Agitato Legato Arpeggio for Kontakt (VST, AU, AAX) is designed for very fast string passages, including arpeggios, ostinato figures, and hyper fast legato melodies. We recorded 5 new types of Hyper-Fast Legato for Violins (2), Violas (1) and Cellos (2).




8dio.com


----------



## Yogevs

Vladinemir said:


> Yes, but you don't have to buy all of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agitato Grandiose Legato Ensemble & Divisi Violins
> 
> 
> Agitato Grandiose Legato Violins for Kontakt (VST, AU, AAX) is inspired by the soaring melodic styles of Williams and Mancini. The goal of these libraries is to nail that fast, soaring, melodic Hollywood legato we’ve always wanted. This collection features 14 different legatos and 2 Violin...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8dio.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agitato Grandiose Legato Ensemble & Divisi Cellos
> 
> 
> Agitato Grandiose Legato for Cellos for Kontakt (VST/AU/AAX) is inspired by the soaring melodic styles of Williams and Mancini. The concept of these libraries is to nail that fast, soaring, melodic Hollywood legato we’ve always wanted. This library features 14 different legatos and 2 cello...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8dio.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agitato Legato Arpeggio
> 
> 
> Agitato Legato Arpeggio for Kontakt (VST, AU, AAX) is designed for very fast string passages, including arpeggios, ostinato figures, and hyper fast legato melodies. We recorded 5 new types of Hyper-Fast Legato for Violins (2), Violas (1) and Cellos (2).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8dio.com


Oh got it. These ones are the ones required for Adichi?


----------



## Vladinemir

Yes but always double check.


----------



## Markrs

I had the Adagio Legacy already so decided to pick up the remaining 3 libraries required before the end of the 70% sale (of course with 8Dio you have no idea if they will do those libraries cheaper tomorrow or as free with a purchase, but 70% seemed a good enough price to me). 

I had a recommend a friend voucher but sadly I couldn’t use it with this deal as they don’t allow 2 voucher codes. Hard to see the value in those friend 8Dio vouchers if you can never use them on items on sale


----------



## Ricgus3

Markrs said:


> I had the Adagio Legacy already so decided to pick up the remaining 3 libraries required before the end of the 70% sale (of course with 8Dio you have no idea if they will do those libraries cheaper tomorrow or as free with a purchase, but 70% seemed a good enough price to me).
> 
> I had a recommend a friend voucher but sadly I couldn’t use it with this deal as they don’t allow 2 voucher codes. Hard to see the value in those friend 8Dio vouchers if you can never use them on items on sale


The vouchers did work for the flash sales though. Maybe it was too much for them


----------



## Markrs

Ricgus3 said:


> The vouchers did work for the flash sales though. Maybe it was too much for them


Maybe they will work again later. The friend discount works until the 14th Dec and I’m sure 8Dio will have Xmas sales.


----------



## pceniza

Hi,
For anyone that might be able to help? i recently just tried these adachi patches, still getting to know them and they seem great! However, these patches keep wanting to look for the AdagioMod.nkr file? that wasn't packaged in the download?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

pceniza said:


> Hi,
> For anyone that might be able to help? i recently just tried these adachi patches, still getting to know them and they seem great! However, these patches keep wanting to look for the AdagioMod.nkr file? that wasn't packaged in the download?


I think you should be able to just create an empty text file named AdagioMod.nkr and it should be fine. The nkr was only present so that I could have Kontakt auto-update the scripts from the resources folder.


----------



## badabing

Sorry if this was already covered but is there a way to find out what Adachi articulations will be missing without the Agitato libraries? I only have Anthology and Adagio. I was hoping for another 8dio sale to pick up Agitato but doesn't look like that's on the cards.


----------



## easyrider

Op updated?

*Update January 2023: If you are looking into buying Adagio/Agitato/Anthology due to Adachi, I strongly suggest you reconsider and look elsewhere for your orchestral strings needs. My own interactions with 8Dio and what I have been told about them by others has led me to the realization that they are a completely amoral company, and I regret having ever purchased any of their products or given them free sales by releasing my work here. If you don't believe me, **listen to Cory Pelizzari**, who was threatened by them for simply posting a review they didn't like.*


----------



## Evans

If anyone feels so inclined, search a few other VI forums and discords to find statements from some other highly respected, experienced people. Won't be hard.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

easyrider said:


> Op updated?
> 
> *Update January 2023: If you are looking into buying Adagio/Agitato/Anthology due to Adachi, I strongly suggest you reconsider and look elsewhere for your orchestral strings needs. My own interactions with 8Dio and what I have been told about them by others has led me to the realization that they are a completely amoral company, and I regret having ever purchased any of their products or given them free sales by releasing my work here. If you don't believe me, **listen to Cory Pelizzari**, who was threatened by them for simply posting a review they didn't like.*


How do you know Cory is talking about 8Dio?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Well, I personally apply very high standards when deciding whether to condemn someone or something.

Public condemnation when big enough can have implications for the condemned as serious as a prison sentence. So it's more than reasonable to apply all of the same standards, guided by a rigorous "innocent until proven guilty" mentality.

Even with the rigour of the justice system false convictions happen, sometimes even multiple times to the same person. And I'm sure the judges felt very convinced and in the right.
So what can we expect of us chair-farting keyboard warriors?

On top of that, when a company consists of multiple people you never fully know who is responsible for certain things and whether everyone involved agrees or is aware of the actions of the other.
When there is a personal relationship between these people it can get even more difficult.

In any case, I've indeed heard some stuff like here that suggests 8dio might be trouble here and there, most of it fairly washy actually. 
Waiting for the evidence. For now I don't have a problem with them that's greater than with most developers and their silly marketing and buggy libraries.


----------



## TomaeusD

This is disheartening to hear about yet another case. I definitely won't be purchasing any more products of theirs.



Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> How do you know Cory is talking about 8Dio?


He hints at them in a very obvious way in the comments of that video.

EDIT: I misread Sarah's post and thought she went through the same thing as Cory. Regardless of what happened, the situation isn't great.


----------



## easyrider

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> How do you know Cory is talking about 8Dio?


I know nothing,

That’s what the OP has updated here

Thread 'Adachi: Important update in OP'
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/adachi-important-update-in-op.116094/


----------



## Remnant

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> How do you know Cory is talking about 8Dio?


I do t know the context of the dispute so do not cast judgment on either side. I have purchased and liked 8dio products in the past and probably will in the future. I also wish Cory did a review of every product I thought about buying, because his reviews are the best. He is definitely talking about 8dio though. You just need to read the comments to verify it.


----------



## Paul Owen

So what's happened then? 

I've no doubt the OP has their reasons/justifications for that statement but as a consumer why am I being told not buy from 8dio?


----------



## Petter Rong

TomaeusD said:


> He hints at them in a very obvious way in the comments of that video.


I also recall seeing something else on his channel (I dont't think I've watched the linked video before) that named Troels and Tawnia specifically, so there was no doubt that it was 8Dio. I can't recall the exact issue or conflict, but I'm fairly sure that it was some kind of statement that he would no longer review 8Dio products


----------



## Getsumen

Paul Owen said:


> So what's happened then?
> 
> I've no doubt the OP has their reasons/justifications for that statement but as a consumer why am I being told not buy from 8dio?


Well this is actually old drama. If nothing changed then the crux of it is an issue of payment. 8Dio doesn't / didn't want to pay for Adachi.

To be honest from my perspective I can't see how it's 8dio's fault or immoral of them. There was no expectation (as far as I understand) of payment as after the project they did not come to an agreed-upon amount, and these are old old unsupported libraries. In fact, some devs won't even let you distribute any modifications to a library (cough cough PS) let alone pay you for it.

Granted Troels wrote a reallllly badly worded post and response after the whole debacle, but I cannot see how it's immoral of 8dio. Of course I'm a third party outsider who has no stake in this, so my opinion is worthless for what it matters.

See page 26 of this thread for the original context and form your own opinion. Perhaps I am missing something


----------



## Petter Rong

Petter Rong said:


> I also recall seeing something else on his channel (I dont't think I've watched the linked video before) that named Troels and Tawnia specifically, so there was no doubt that it was 8Dio. I can't recall the exact issue or conflict, but I'm fairly sure that it was some kind of statement that he would no longer review 8Dio products


Found it. Actually was the same issue as the video, just a few years later (Either 2020 or 2021). Seems like it was just Tawnia named specifically here, but obviously 8Dio as well:


----------



## wst3

FWIW I've watched a bunch of developers here implode over issues that appeared, from the outside, to be frivolous. Some were, some were not, and some remain clouded in mystery.

You can take sides if you like, I don't advise it unless you know for certain that you have all the facts.
8Dio has published some really good libraries. They've published libraries that have become outdated. Sometimes by their own products.

And you can say the same, and find other faults with almost any developer.


----------



## Petter Rong

wst3 said:


> And you can say the same, and find other faults with almost any developer.


Yup. And that's not limited to VIs. Nor to the music industry. I don't think that I would, if I ever was to become in a position to do so, consider going into business with someone acting the way 8Dio does. But they present a product that I can buy, where there's no evidence that my money is being unjustly profited from (other than potential pricing questions, but that's not really an ethical standpoint anyways). I don't count buying from a fairly big developer (or store or brand etc.) a sign of support for their business dealings or how they act. I'm a Mac guy, but I think Apple is one of the shittiest brands out there, making the most stupid backwards decisions and showing clear anti-consumer behaviour. I don't see a problem with buying a Mac even though I'm aware of this (as long as it doesn't directly impact the product I'm buying). If I started applying the opposite mindset to that for everything, I would be severely limited in my options as a consumer. (try finding a "moral" ink printer)

With that said, I don't blame Cory or Sarah at all, and I respect their choice to not deal with these people anymore, and urge us to stay away. I'm simply declining the warning at my own risk.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

easyrider said:


> I know nothing,
> 
> That’s what the OP has updated here
> 
> Thread 'Adachi: Important update in OP'
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/adachi-important-update-in-op.116094/


Oh so that update is from Sarah? I didn't realize that. I thought they'd fix this issue an compensated her a bit because i know she was frustrated at the time. I'll read the comments on Cory's video.


----------



## Jrides

Paul Owen said:


> So what's happened then?
> 
> I've no doubt the OP has their reasons/justifications for that statement but as a consumer why am I being told not buy from 8dio?


It’s a public forum for debate and discussion. She is just sharing her views. In her opinion, people should not support this company. What’s so hard to understand about that.

No one is forced to except or reject her opinion. Are you bothered that her opinion exists in the space where it is visible to others?


----------



## Paul Owen

Jrides said:


> It’s a public forum for debate and discussion. She is just sharing her views. In her opinion, people should not support this company. What’s so hard to understand about that.
> 
> No one is forced to except or reject her opinion. Are you bothered that her opinion exists in the space where it is visible to others?


You seem to think that I was somehow attacking her right to voice her opinion on this public forum which was not the case. 
In spite of your somewhat confrontational writing style, I'll keep it polite and explain that I was seeking some context as to why Sarah would say such a thing in the first place. I now have it, thanks to a helpful member above who responded without getting their knickers in a twist like you are. You seem a little uptight, I hope you're ok.

Oh and it's 'accept' not 'except'. 

Good day to you sir. May you be well in your endeavours.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

I she's been a bit critical of 8dio in recent fairly threads. Did something happened after that because of her criticism? I don't know. I know 8Dio get attack and criticize about their sale, is it playfull or an atempt to ridicule them? I don't know.


----------



## Soundbed

Sarah linked this video from Cory:


----------



## tcb

??
I and my friend didn't suffer simliar things from 8dio.But I trust OP and Cory,I will not buy anything from 8dio anymore.


----------



## Jrides

Paul Owen said:


> You seem to think that I was somehow attacking her right to voice her opinion on this public forum which was not the case.
> In spite of your somewhat confrontational writing style, I'll keep it polite and explain that I was seeking some context as to why Sarah would say such a thing in the first place. I now have it, thanks to a helpful member above who responded without getting their knickers in a twist like you are. You seem a little uptight, I hope you're ok.
> 
> Oh and it's 'accept' not 'except'.
> 
> Good day to you sir. May you be well in your endeavours.


Oh that’s my fault. It wasn’t obvious what you were asking. Especially, since she put a link to a video that fully explained her comments. As far as the typo is concerned though… Cool. I use text to speech so it’s always good to know when it isn’t working as expected.


----------



## Petter Rong

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I she's been a bit critical of 8dio in recent fairly threads. Did something happened after that because of her criticism? I don't know. I know 8Dio get attack and criticize about their sale, is it playfull or an atempt to ridicule them? I don't know.


Probably just had conversations with other people who have similar experiences or something. There's been no official statement or forum posts suggesting something "happened" that I know about, so my guess is she probably just decided now that she should make an update about her views on the matter, instead of just criticisms on page x that most people checking out Adachi doesn't see


----------



## A.Dern

I haven't interacted with 8Dio much but the little interaction there was has made me stay away from them (other than not loving a lot of their products but that's personal preference). They reached out to my agent in 2021, saying they were looking for a new YouTube tutorial specialist at 8Dio, specifically to create their official walkthrough videos for new libraries. They said they'd provide NFRs for those walkthroughs (to be posted on their pages, not mine) and are open to discuss additional monetary compensation. I told my agent if this is official 8Dio content I'm exclusively creating for them, then I definitely want monetary compensation. When my agent asked what the pay range for that sort of job would be, they backpedaled and said they considered the free products compensation. Products they'd have to provide me with anyway because they're unreleased so how else would I be making a walkthrough? And what if it's stuff I don't even want personally? Then I get zero value out of this. Anyway I chuckled and moved on with my life. But after that interaction I did ask a couple of colleagues over time what their experiences had been, and the general consensus was "They're cheap, don't handle criticism well, and don't like to pay artists". Then I saw the video by Cory and read this thread interaction with Sarah and it all kinda checks out...  Everyone is of course free to form their own opinion as I did mine, and purchase whatever they want. Personally, I just think there are not only better products out there but also more morally airtight developers that value creators. #justmyopinion


----------



## peterharket

Sounds like exploitation to my ears - glad you backed out Anne


----------



## Oakran

A.Dern said:


> I haven't interacted with 8Dio much but the little interaction there was has made me stay away from them (other than not loving a lot of their products but that's personal preference). They reached out to my agent in 2021, saying they were looking for a new YouTube tutorial specialist at 8Dio, specifically to create their official walkthrough videos for new libraries. They said they'd provide NFRs for those walkthroughs (to be posted on their pages, not mine) and are open to discuss additional monetary compensation. I told my agent if this is official 8Dio content I'm exclusively creating for them, then I definitely want monetary compensation. When my agent asked what the pay range for that sort of job would be, they backpedaled and said they considered the free products compensation. Products they'd have to provide me with anyway because they're unreleased so how else would I be making a walkthrough? And what if it's stuff I don't even want personally? Then I get zero value out of this. Anyway I chuckled and moved on with my life. But after that interaction I did ask a couple of colleagues over time what their experiences had been, and the general consensus was "They're cheap, don't handle criticism well, and don't like to pay artists". Then I saw the video by Cory and read this thread interaction with Sarah and it all kinda checks out...  Everyone is of course free to form their own opinion as I did mine, and purchase whatever they want. Personally, I just think there are not only better products out there but also more morally airtight developers that value creators. #justmyopinion


Thanks for sharing your experience with them. I'm actually sadly not surprised...


----------



## Nashi_VI

Lionel Schmitt said:


> Well, I personally apply very high standards when deciding whether to condemn someone or something.
> 
> Public condemnation when big enough can have implications for the condemned as serious as a prison sentence. So it's more than reasonable to apply all of the same standards, guided by a rigorous "innocent until proven guilty" mentality.
> 
> Even with the rigour of the justice system false convictions happen, sometimes even multiple times to the same person. And I'm sure the judges felt very convinced and in the right.
> So what can we expect of us chair-farting keyboard warriors?
> 
> On top of that, when a company consists of multiple people you never fully know who is responsible for certain things and whether everyone involved agrees or is aware of the actions of the other.
> When there is a personal relationship between these people it can get even more difficult.
> 
> In any case, I've indeed heard some stuff like here that suggests 8dio might be trouble here and there, most of it fairly washy actually.
> Waiting for the evidence. For now I don't have a problem with them that's greater than with most developers and their silly marketing and buggy libraries.


Agree with most of what you said, we don't know the various stories and how they unfolded, so we shouldn't cast judgement beyond of what we know for certain.
That of course, doesn't mean that we shouldn't decide for ourselves who we think is better to buy from and who is not, even based only on the little things we know of them.
I mean..... i have had a few very bad personal experiences as well with very respected companies that everyone swear by and praise, and i very rarely even talked about them with other composers in private, let alone doing it in a place like this, simply because, even for things that i personally experienced, i don't know who is behind those less than pleasurable experiences, not to mention the fact that i don't want to punish other people that work there that have nothing to do with it, and also because i think that everyone should be allowed to buy/consume/study something that they think is valuable for them, even if it comes from a less than "moral" or "good" person .....
Also, don't think this is something that is that uncommon.... i am sure you can find a numbers of threads of similar things happening to other people with other companies as well (most of those threads are now closed or locked away somewhere in here), as well as some very less than friendly confrontations that happen everyday in various Commercial and regular Sample Talk threads, made by various developers ...those things happen as we speak, in front of everyone, everyday.
From an outside perspective, i like this 8dio set of samples and i also like what Sarah made with them, at the end of the day we should look at the positives, 8dio got some sales from this, Sarah got a job because of this, and we got some old and inexpensive samples that are now more usable than what they were years ago, so everyone got something out of it, regardless of what happened behind close doors and regardless of who is in the right and who is in the wrong.

PS:Also don't think that i am saying this because i think people shouldn't talk about those type of things..quite the opposite, and everyone that knows me should know this, i am not afraid to speak up against anyone, i have done it in here as well a couple of times so you know i am not lying, and i think everyone should be able speak up their mind (people calling me free speech absolutist not understanding at all what i am trying to say in the response to this post in 3..2...1) and help others to not fall victim of somenone/something or help them to not get taken advantage of or bullied in any shape or form; but sometimes, for my own well being, i have to remind myself that, it is better to strive for a quite life, on things that, at the end of the day, are not that important if we really think about it, and only use our energy to fight for the things that really matters to us.


----------



## gamma-ut

Although I agree that reaching for the torches and pitchforks is best avoided, if someone threatens a libel action I regard that as a relationship-termination act as in "I refer you to the reply in _Arkell v Pressdram_. Don't contact me again". (This has happened in my case - I won't go into details but it was quite funny when the other party contacted me a few years later looking for a favour, whereupon I reminded them of their threat – sometimes people throw these threats out, thinking they're no big deal.)

Generally, when that happens, the offended party has no intention of following through, that's why they're threatening it. The only time to really take a libel threat seriously is if an actual lawyer's letter containing specific claims ("this thing in your blog/video at 3:40 is false"). However, it is the point at which it's best to just cut them off because they're not going to behave in a fair or rational manner.

That said, I'm not about to throw my 8Dio libraries in the digital trash can.


----------



## rMancer

Nashi_VI said:


> at the end of the day we should look at the positives, 8dio got some sales from this, Sarah got a job because of this, and we got some old and inexpensive samples that are now more usable than what they were years ago, so everyone got something out of it, regardless of what happened behind close doors and regardless of who is in the right and who is in the wrong.


I think it can be detrimental to focus only on the positives here; one could potentially justify a lot of awful things that way. This is obviously an extreme example but: "Yeah that bus accident was tragic, but look on the bright side: 30 new jobs just opened up!" (Edit to add: I know this is not your intent at all, but I just think that if we _only _focus on the positives, then we are contributing to the invalidation and silencing of those brave/willing enough to speak up about their negative experiences)

Allegedly, people were threatened/blackmailed/bullied. I don't care what "positives" there are that came out of it; that behavior is simply unacceptable. That is a person with influence using their position to intimidate and manipulate someone else, to attempt to deny their agency not just as a consumer but as a human being. That is abusive behavior, if true.

* I know we shouldn't jump to conclusions about this because we don't know the information. However, at this point, _three _different people (each of whom I would consider a valued member of this community in their own way) have spoken up now.


----------



## Getsumen

rMancer said:


> I think it can be detrimental to focus only on the positives here; one could potentially justify a lot of awful things that way. This is obviously an extreme example but: "Yeah that bus accident was tragic, but look on the bright side: 30 new jobs just opened up!" (Edit to add: I know this is not your intent at all, but I just think that if we _only _focus on the positives, then we are contributing to the invalidation and silencing of those brave/willing enough to speak up about their negative experiences)
> 
> Allegedly, people were threatened/blackmailed/bullied. I don't care what "positives" there are that came out of it; that behavior is simply unacceptable. That is a person with influence using their position to intimidate and manipulate someone else, to attempt to deny their agency not just as a consumer but as a human being. That is abusive behavior, if true.
> 
> * I know we shouldn't jump to conclusions about this because we don't know the information. However, at this point, _three _different people (each of whom I would consider a valued member of this community in their own way) have spoken up now.


am I missing something? I thought only Cory was talking about being bullied/blackmailed.

Anne discussed payment issues and to my understanding, it's a similar issue with this thread (see page 26) I don't think any of them even mentioned remotely related to blackmail or being bullied by 8dio, albeit I could be missing something


----------



## Nashi_VI

rMancer said:


> I think it can be detrimental to focus only on the positives here; one could potentially justify a lot of awful things that way. This is obviously an extreme example but: "Yeah that bus accident was tragic, but look on the bright side: 30 new jobs just opened up!" (Edit to add: I know this is not your intent at all, but I just think that if we _only _focus on the positives, then we are contributing to the invalidation and silencing of those brave/willing enough to speak up about their negative experiences)
> 
> Allegedly, people were threatened/blackmailed/bullied. I don't care what "positives" there are that came out of it; that behavior is simply unacceptable. That is a person with influence using their position to intimidate and manipulate someone else, to attempt to deny their agency not just as a consumer but as a human being. That is abusive behavior, if true.
> 
> * I know we shouldn't jump to conclusions about this because we don't know the information. However, at this point, _three _different people (each of whom I would consider a valued member of this community in their own way) have spoken up now.


I really don't want to spend my days arguing in here, i know some people love it, but i don't, it just that i really cannot contain myself to speak my mind sometimes; so once again, if you read my post, i explicitly said that everyone should be allowed to talk freely about this type of stuff and that nobody should be silenced in any way, regardless if they are right or wrong (my PS section was designed to address the possible misconceptions that i had already foreseen about people not understanding fully the meaning of my post), and also, the part of the post you quoted was worded specifically as "we should look at the positives" and not "focus only on the positives" that is not what i said at all.
People fall too easely prey of guilt tripping themselves and also on the crusade ship to attack someone that has the only "sin" to not have enough money to buy an expensive audio product and that, because of that, end up buying a comparable one, for far less money, from a company that maybe is not that clean as the big one (that produce the more expensive products) publicly (even tho they may be even worse than the small company, but nobody knows yet).
Also, regardless of this specific instance, i do think that in any circumstance we should always strive to look at the positives, even for something much worse than a bus accident, that doesn't of course make the perpetrators of said bus accident magically become good people,or that nobody should be talking about said bus incident, but, in my opinion it is just a better mindset, instead of dwelling on the past for something that has already happen and that we cannot change at all.
If you don't care about what positives there are that came out of it because, for you, that behaviour is simply unacceptable, then more power to you to not buy anymore from them, or to get to the bottom of this story (something that it is unlikely we would ever be able to do ourselves), i think that your decision is totally fine, i only wish that people don't start accusing other people only on the basis of them owning or buying stuff from 8dio from now on because that company is not "moral"....not to mention that there are way worse companies out there that have done way more immoral stuff than what 8dio is every going to be capable of doing, and most of us are probably using their products or services everyday of our lives (sadly).
Qui sine peccato est vestrum, primus lapidem mittat.


----------



## lettucehat

Nashi_VI said:


> i only wish that people don't start accusing other people only on the basis of them owning or buying stuff from 8dio from now on because that company is not "moral"


has anyone done that, though?


----------



## Nashi_VI

lettucehat said:


> has anyone done that, though?


I have magical powers and i can see into the future 
(or i have seen times and times again things like this happening before...even in our industry already).
Also, i guess the fact i am not a native english speaker is really making it hard for my points to come across...i tought that saying "i only wish that people don't start accusing" was enough to make it clear that mine was only a preemptive wishful statement on the future, not based on and if anyone has actually done it already.


----------



## Petter Rong

Getsumen said:


> am I missing something? I thought only Cory was talking about being bullied/blackmailed.
> 
> Anne discussed payment issues and to my understanding, it's a similar issue with this thread (see page 26) I don't think any of them even mentioned remotely related to blackmail or being bullied by 8dio, albeit I could be missing something


The fact that this update comes now, about 8 months later than page 26, as well as the explanation in the update, would suggest that she has been in contact with someone other than Cory as well that makes here take this stance. There's quite a jump from thinking they do awful business deals to thinking they're "*a completely amoral company", *so someone has probably been seen this thread and reached out.

If I understood correctly, Anne's issue wasn't even one of payment but of a proposed payment for possible work that had in no way materialized yet. It's really not that different than the age old payment-in-exposure trope (though some of us less profiled would be happy to receive some NFRs). So basically that part of the criticism only goes to, as she quoted her colleagues as saying "They're cheap [...] and don't like to pay artists". Which is basically every company ever, though you would expect a company that's supposedly all about musicians and creativity to be more understanding of the need for compensation and the work that goes into creating content and media.


----------



## Nashi_VI

Petter Rong said:


> The fact that this update comes now, about 8 months later than page 26, as well as the explanation in the update, would suggest that she has been in contact with someone other than Cory as well that makes here take this stance.


I think the reason for the update was because Anthology was on sale, and people were asking and talking about Adachi, not because she just recently found out something new that she didn't already knew about 8dio....but i might be wrong of course.


----------



## Jrides

Nashi_VI said:


> I think the reason for the update was because Anthology was on sale, and people were asking and talking about Adachi, not because she just recently found out something new that she didn't already knew about 8dio....but i might be wrong of course.


I think you are probably right. I noticed in that thread people were tagging her over and over again.


----------



## Hansu Heya

Although it has to be said: not being paid for library demos is pretty common! Even with the bigger brands. Just as common as directors or producers asking you to write music for free, when you haven’t got enough credits on your belt … it is not just 8dio, although they might be particularly bad, I just wouldn’t know due to lack of experience. I guess, publicly talking about the exploitation you witness in your own field of work is something many people rather step back from. That is why you hear those things less often, although I have seen enough to know it is pretty common, unfortunately. Just like with every profession that does not have a strong position in terms of power and politics.

Regarding developers specifically, I also remember rather unpleasant confrontations with certain founding members of other sample library developers who used to visit forums and “defend” their products. Also not an 8dio specific thing.


----------



## Orpheus Glory

Hansu Heya said:


> Although it has to be said: not being paid for library demos is pretty common! Even with the bigger brands. Just as common as directors or producers asking you to write music for free, when you haven’t got enough credits on your belt … it is not just 8dio, although they might be particularly bad, I just wouldn’t know due to lack of experience. I guess, publicly talking about the exploitation you witness in your own field of work is something many people rather step back from. That is why you hear those things less often, although I have seen enough to know it is pretty common, unfortunately. Just like with every profession that does not have a strong position in terms of power and politics.
> 
> Regarding developers specifically, I also remember rather unpleasant confrontations with certain founding members of other sample library developers who used to visit forums and “defend” their products. Also not an 8dio specific thing.


Giving free copies for review without compensation is of course common, but clearly 8dio seems to be not open for any negative feedback, based on what people claim here. That is a huge problem.


----------



## Loïc D

Hansu Heya said:


> Although it has to be said: not being paid for library demos is pretty common! Even with the bigger brands. Just as common as directors or producers asking you to write music for free, when you haven’t got enough credits on your belt … it is not just 8dio, although they might be particularly bad, I just wouldn’t know due to lack of experience. I guess, publicly talking about the exploitation you witness in your own field of work is something many people rather step back from. That is why you hear those things less often, although I have seen enough to know it is pretty common, unfortunately. Just like with every profession that does not have a strong position in terms of power and politics.
> 
> Regarding developers specifically, I also remember rather unpleasant confrontations with certain founding members of other sample library developers who used to visit forums and “defend” their products. Also not an 8dio specific thing.


Totally off-topic : funny nickname 🤣


----------



## gst98

Hansu Heya said:


> Although it has to be said: not being paid for library demos is pretty common! Even with the bigger brands. Just as common as directors or producers asking you to write music for free, when you haven’t got enough credits on your belt … it is not just 8dio, although they might be particularly bad, I just wouldn’t know due to lack of experience. I guess, publicly talking about the exploitation you witness in your own field of work is something many people rather step back from. That is why you hear those things less often, although I have seen enough to know it is pretty common, unfortunately. Just like with every profession that does not have a strong position in terms of power and politics.
> 
> Regarding developers specifically, I also remember rather unpleasant confrontations with certain founding members of other sample library developers who used to visit forums and “defend” their products. Also not an 8dio specific thing.


I think you’re misunderstanding. They were asking her to make video tutorials not demo tracks. And 8dio is definitely a similar size company to OT and SF who do in fact pay their demo writers.


----------



## Mike Fox

Hansu Heya said:


> Although it has to be said: not being paid for library demos is pretty common!


It's one thing for an an influencer to review a sample library or create a demo track in exchange for an NFR copy. That is very common, and I do this all the time for my YouTube channel.

However, it's a completely different matter when a developer wants a specific influencer to create an official walkthrough video for their company. Something like that should be a highly paid gig, and you'd be an absolute fool to do this for free, and yes, you would be doing this for free, because it costs the developer absolutely NOTHING to hand over an NFR copy of the library.

And even if it did cost the developer something to hand over copies of their libraries, it still wouldn’t be any kind of worthy compensation considering the ridiculous amount of work that goes into creating something like an official walkthrough video.

Money talks.


----------



## AlbertSmithers

At this point, based on the information provided, I will refuse to purchase 8dio products or recommend 8dio products to my friends until Troels or 8dio publicly addresses this situation.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

edit: never mind, I have to stay out of discussions to not miss deadlines haha..

Not sure it's relevant due to all the silly enthusiasts out there who rate everything with 5 stars.
If you read the original comment it will make sense lol


----------



## Hansu Heya

I actually don't see a difference between writing a demo or doing some walkthrough. It rather takes a lot more skill and time to write a good demo, so, I would rather be inclined to see it the other way around. Well, all of this obviously depends on how much time and effort was put into it, but the way I see it, most walkthroughs and so-called reviews on YouTube are pretty much ad-lib speaking following a rough script. Why should talking a bit about a library and showing it off be well compensated while writing music not or hardly? Maybe that is the way it is, but it sure isn't fair or reasonable.

I am really not here to say that 8dio are treated unfairly, if that is what people assume. I just want to say, this kind of behaviour is (I am talking from my experience) way more common than a lot of people might think! And I also do not want to advocate that, rather the other way around ...


----------



## Gerbil

The ironic thing is that it was Cory's video on Adagio/Anthology strings that made me buy some of them (and I bet I'm not alone). Very sorry to read how it all impacted on his mental health.


----------



## Corda1983

Hansu Heya said:


> I actually don't see a difference between writing a demo or doing some walkthrough. It rather takes a lot more skill and time to write a good demo, so, I would rather be inclined to see it the other way around. Well, all of this obviously depends on how much time and effort was put into it, but the way I see it, most walkthroughs and so-called reviews on YouTube are pretty much ad-lib speaking following a rough script. Why should talking a bit about a library and showing it off be well compensated while writing music not or hardly? Maybe that is the way it is, but it sure isn't fair or reasonable.
> 
> I am really not here to say that 8dio are treated unfairly, if that is what people assume. I just want to say, this kind of behaviour is (I am talking from my experience) way more common than a lot of people might think! And I also do not want to advocate that, rather the other way around ...



Time isn't necessarily the only value someone brings. I'd imagine the reason 8Dio wanted Anne-Kathrin involved is because of her popularity in the sample library community, and the value that would bring in terms of sales and branding.

A lot of developers will have good, friendly relationships with composers and, in those situations, that friendly relationship may mean a composer is happy to write a demo or do some promotion in return for a free copy of the library - most are happy to help out our friends and colleagues they have a personal friendship with, and getting a sample library out of it is cool. 

I think if you're being asked to create walkthroughs from a company you have no personal connection with, because that company knows you create good quality content that goes down well with a larger-than-average audience, it's likely that person is going to want to be paid for that. Even if a walkthrough only takes an hour or two to put together (I'd imagine it takes longer to get to know a library well enough to walk through it, even if it only takes an hour to record the video), the value is in the connection to that composer/content creator.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

If you’ve seen AKD’s walkthroughs or reviews of other libraries, you would know she puts quite some effort into it AND writes at least one demo track with it to showcase what she’s talking about. As she already stated, she doesn’t particularly like 8Dio libraries in general (and wouldn’t necessarily want one for free) so this would definitely be strictly work for her. I’m surprised developers wouldn’t compensate composers for this type of work - it’s like hiring a marketing consultant.


----------



## Mike Fox

Hansu Heya said:


> I actually don't see a difference between writing a demo or doing some walkthrough. It rather takes a lot more skill and time to write a good demo, so, I would rather be inclined to see it the other way around. Well, all of this obviously depends on how much time and effort was put into it, but the way I see it, most walkthroughs and so-called reviews on YouTube are pretty much ad-lib speaking following a rough script. Why should talking a bit about a library and showing it off be well compensated while writing music not or hardly? Maybe that is the way it is, but it sure isn't fair or reasonable.
> 
> I am really not here to say that 8dio are treated unfairly, if that is what people assume. I just want to say, this kind of behaviour is (I am talking from my experience) way more common than a lot of people might think! And I also do not want to advocate that, rather the other way around ...


I think you’re getting some things twisted here.

For starters, there’s a HUGE difference between an influencer test driving a sample library for their YouTube channel, and someone creating a professional and official walkthrough video for a developer.

A lot of YouTubers will just fire up the library for the first time and start playing the patches, while shooting the shit with their viewers. Not too much thought or pre-planning goes into it, as it’s very much an improv type of approach.

Whereas an official walkthrough video entails a ridiculous amount of work, including deeply familiarizing yourself with the library, composing several small pieces, screen recording those pieces, writing a script for the video, recording and mastering the dialogue, editing, exporting, uploading, etc (of course, these details can vary depending on what the developer wants, but this is generally the case if you have no team to assist you).

Secondly, there’s also a huge difference between creating an official walkthrough video for a developer, and creating a demo track for a developer.

Official walkthrough videos rarely have anything to do with showcasing the artist themselves. It’s more about showcasing the library, going through each patch, talking about options, features, etc. And again, you’re also bound by the developer’s demands, and are creating something that signs off their checklists.

Whereas a demo track is showcasing the artist and their compositional skills. You generally have full control and creative freedom. And if you’re doing this for a big developer that gets a lot of traffic, the self promotion can easily pay itself off. You can also post this track on your Soundcloud, Spotify, website, etc.

Overall, a demo track is far more useable and rewarding for the artist, and offers a bigger payoff when it comes to promotion, and again, offers a level of creative freedom that is completely absent from an official walkthrough video.

That is a huge difference in of itself.

So, no. It doesn’t necessarily take more time and skill to create a good demo over creating an official walkthrough video. And it most certainly isn’t common to create an official walkthrough video for a developer in exchange for an NFR.


----------



## homie

I don't know why it's suddenly about product demos/reviews compensation. Official Adachi support would have been nice but was never a given. The main problem is clearly how Cory got treated.

I'm afraid Mike is going to lose his last remaining hairs while trying to figure out what to do with this one. His little Gulag is already bursting at the seams.


----------



## Jrides

homie said:


> I don't know why it's suddenly about product demos/reviews compensation. Official Adachi support would have been nice but was never a given. The main problem is clearly how Cory got treated.
> 
> I'm afraid Mike is going to lose his last remaining hairs while trying to figure out what to do with this one. His little Gulag is already bursting at the seams.


I witnessed a post from Sarah get deleted, practically right before my eyes. Hit the refresh button and, poof, it was gone.


That being said, in this case she didn’t call attention to the issue. She very quietly updated the original post. If they drop the hammer on her for this, that would just be Weak sauce, as the internets used to say.

***edit*** The deleted post I’m referring to was in a different thread on a different topic.


----------



## EvilDragon

OK I feel I should add some more info here... The time seems right.

The year was 2010, it was September. The battle between VOXOS and Requiem was raging. Discussions were had, opinions were thrown around left and right. So of course, I threw mine, too, with good intentions and seeing lots of benefits in each of the two aforementioned products.

And then out of a blue I get a PM here on VI-C from Troels, threatening to sue me for (you will excuse my memory on this - Troels subsequently deleted his PMs from the conversation so I only have my own PMs to go by here... god I wish I quoted paragraphs from him directly!) defamation or libel, of all things. For stating an opinion in my own capacity. And moreover, he also threatened to sue Sonokinetic (who were just starting out then and I did a couple of solo vocal libraries for them at the time, that are discontinued now) because he thought I worked for them (I was always operating as a freelancer not tied to any particular company).

But of course nothing ever happened - it was just bullying 101. And it was like that since Tonehammer days. It is more and more clear why Tonehammer fell apart. And apparently now the bully team consists of two because Troels found a match in Tawnia. Ain't that nice!

I sympathize with Cory, Anne and Sarah here. So there you have it - one more voice to the choir. A bit more fuel to the fire.


----------



## Drundfunk

EvilDragon said:


> I sympathize with Cory, Anne and Sarah here. So there you have it - one more voice to the choir. A bit more fuel to the fire.








Sorry guys, I'm trying to post fewer jokes/memes, but you're making it way too hard not to post them....


----------



## Mike Greene

homie said:


> I'm afraid Mike is going to lose his last remaining hairs while trying to figure out what to do with this one. His little Gulag is already bursting at the seams.


I've been waiting to see if @Troels Folmann was going to respond. I know he's been on the forum a few times in the last few days, so I assumed a response was coming, although this could be a tricky one to respond to, since everybody (including me) loves Cory, and I think everybody (including me) loves Sarah as well. It could be one of those _"Better to just stay silent and ride it out"_ situations.



Jrides said:


> I witnessed a post from Sarah get deleted, practically right before my eyes. Hit the refresh button and, poof, it was gone.
> 
> That being said, in this case she didn’t call attention to the issue. She very quietly updated the original post. If they drop the hammer on her for this, that would just be Weak sauce, as the internets used to say.


No posts have been deleted on our end. FWIW, I (as member, not admin) am Team Cory and Sarah on this one. But maybe there are things we don't know, so I want to give Troels an opportunity to chime in.



Corda1983 said:


> _(In response to the Anne-Kathrin angle in this discussion)_ Time isn't necessarily the only value someone brings.


Absolutely. There's also an implied endorsement if she did something like creating a walkthrough.

This industry may be small, but Anne-Kathrin (as well as Cory and many others) are influencers whose opinions, or even mentions, carry a lot of weight. They might not be pimping sunglasses and handbags on Instagram, but they're influencers nonetheless. So if I were any of them, I would bake that into the price I charged for walkthroughs or whatever.

To be clear, I'm not implying any of them are charging any developers to mention their products. In fact, I'm pretty sure they don't. (Although ... if they ever want to start, here's my number ... )


----------



## filipjonathan

EvilDragon said:


> OK I feel I should add some more info here... The time seems right.
> 
> 
> The year was 2010, it was September. The battle between VOXOS and Requiem was raging. Discussions were had, opinions were thrown around left and right. So of course, I threw mine, too, with good intentions and seeing lots of benefits in each of the two aforementioned products.
> 
> And then out of a blue I get a PM here on VI-C from Troels, threatening to sue me for (you will excuse my memory on this - Troels subsequently deleted his PMs from the conversation so I only have my own PMs to go by here... god I wish I quoted paragraphs from him directly!) defamation or libel, of all things. For stating an opinion in my own capacity. And moreover, he also threatened to sue Sonokinetic (who were just starting out then and I did a couple of solo vocal libraries for them at the time, that are discontinued now) because he thought I worked for them (I was always operating as a freelancer not tied to any particular company).
> 
> But of course nothing ever happened - it was just bullying 101. And it was like that since Tonehammer days. It is more and more clear why Tonehammer fell apart. And apparently now the bully team consists of two because Troels found a match in Tawnia. Ain't that nice!
> 
> 
> I sympathize with Cory, Anne and Sarah here. So there you have it - one more voice to the choir. A bit more fuel to the fire.


Oookkay, so Soundpaint is now also on my no-no list. Thanks!


----------



## Rudianos

Geez. It seems so un economical (from an energy standpoint) to act like such a meanie. To put something out there, silence freedoms to express opinions ... in the world of ideas. Yikes.

We have all hit the send button from time to time and hoped to retract or delete. I can forgive anyone from getting frustrated, even threatening me. But if there are no apologies and just avoidance it would be hard to do business with someone. It does seem like a bully, or someone very emotionally not established. It is all just being human, but come on.

When we make art we put ourselves out there... and subject our vulnerabilities to the world. That is a lot in itself. When we charge though for it, we enter into a business relationship. There should be better decorum. And if there is debt or money issues we must look at our expense sheets and hedge... not violate that decorum. We can learn through feedback.

Seems like there is a pattern of conduct with the stated party. Something maybe we can all learn from, in not what to be. And I pray that all parties reach inside and learn something.


----------



## EvilDragon

I would say, instead of wasting that energy into bullying others, perhaps a more salient thing to do would be to actually accept the negative feedback and improve your products? But there's no reasoning with such people, of course.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Mike Fox said:


> Whereas a demo track is showcasing the artist and their compositional skills. You generally have full control and creative freedom. And if you’re doing this for a *big developer that gets a lot of traffic, the self promotion can easily pay itself off*. You can also post this track on your Soundcloud, Spotify, website, etc.


I think I've done about 8-10 demo tracks for 8dio which were very well received and displayed almost always on top, 1st or 2nd track.

I can safely say I gained zero opportunities from that, not even a nice message.

Same goes for some YouTube uploads with with up to 300.000 views for some of my tracks, with no observable follower increase after that.

Nothing to do with 8dio itself (I'm rather grateful they always put them far up the list haha, I certainly had a good shot) just saying that exposure is never a good thing to rely on.

And creative freedom depends on the developer, I've had full creative freedom here and a very strong direction + rejection because it didn't follow it elsewhere. In that case there was a library from the catalog as payment though even though the track wasn't used - that wasn't 8dio to be clear.


----------



## HitEmTrue

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> How do you know Cory is talking about 8Dio?





Hansu Heya said:


> I actually don't see a difference between writing a demo or doing some walkthrough. It rather takes a lot more skill and time to write a good demo, so, I would rather be inclined to see it the other way around. Well, all of this obviously depends on how much time and effort was put into it, but the way I see it, most walkthroughs and so-called reviews on YouTube are pretty much ad-lib speaking following a rough script. Why should talking a bit about a library and showing it off be well compensated while writing music not or hardly? Maybe that is the way it is, but it sure isn't fair or reasonable.
> 
> I am really not here to say that 8dio are treated unfairly, if that is what people assume. I just want to say, this kind of behaviour is (I am talking from my experience) way more common than a lot of people might think! And I also do not want to advocate that, rather the other way around ...


She was going to write exclusive material for them, and it was going to be one their channel, not hers. At least I think she said that.


----------



## ibanez1

I've just been absorbing this for the last day or so and I find it truly sad that 8DIO was involved in some personal attacks towards Cory. Cory seems like the most genuine person and it shows through in his reviews and his quick guide videos on topics like reverb.

I've generally enjoyed many of the products i've bought from 8DIO and as of just this weekend was advocating people to get anthology. I just don't understand why they would keep people employed and foster a culture where lashing out at customers/reviewers to the point of EXTORTION and threat of litigation would seem ok.

And based on recent responses, it's not a one off issue and has been going on for years.

Also sorry @Sarah Mancuso for constantly referencing Adachi and you in discussions about Anthology. I realize now it was probably just pouring salt on the wound.

As of now, I'm going to stop being a huge proponent for the libraries I enjoy from them and stop further purchase.

8DIO. You make decent libraries. Some are excellent. Others have quite a few issues but still have beautiful parts that are worth looking past the imperfections. Why lash out at people for voicing their opinions to such an extent as threatening with legal action? People's honest reviews of your offerings are an opportunity to LEARN and IMPROVE. I know at the end of the day it's hubris and fear of losing sales that motivates this horrible behavior but how are threats EVER perceived as the right course of action?


----------



## Paul Owen

Geez, this is truly not a good look for 8Dio/Soundpaint. The more I read the more I feel like Troels has to chime in and do some explaining/apologising. At the very least for his and his companies sake.


----------



## EvilDragon

That would just be pro forma then back to the old behavior, I'm pretty sure.

Not sure what could be explained when you have such a distorted view of reality.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

ibanez1 said:


> Also sorry @Sarah Mancuso for constantly referencing Adachi and you in discussions about Anthology. I realize now it was probably just pouring salt on the wound.


It's not your fault, you had no way of knowing! Thank you though.


----------



## Hansu Heya

HitEmTrue said:


> She was going to write exclusive material for them, and it was going to be one their channel, not hers. At least I think she said that.


Writing a demo for a developer is equally exclusive work for that project. I am really wondering ... in a forum full of composers the work of an influencer and video creator is really appreciated more than that of a (good) composer? I must be in the wrong forum!  I am sure this is just a bad dream and I will wake up in a second feeling relieved!


----------



## gamma-ut

Hansu Heya said:


> Writing a demo for a developer is equally exclusive work for that project. I am really wondering ... in a forum full of composers the work of an influencer and video creator is really appreciated more than that of a (good) composer? I must be in the wrong forum!  I am sure this is just a bad dream and I will wake up in a second feeling relieved!


I don't think that's the point being made – it's more about who values what between the two parties to a deal.

Notionally, the former has more value to the composer as it's, er, the dreaded word "exposure" for the core work and the composer will expect to be able retain enough rights to reuse it elsewhere (though it might have questionable value as libraries that want exclusives will naturally rule it out). 

The walkthrough or video demo is more valuable to the product owner with far less value to the composer/producer if it's on the dev's own channel and exclusive. Obviously, there's a massive grey area in between where the composer/producer is running a notionally independent YouTube channel.


----------



## Orpheus Glory

AlbertSmithers said:


> At this point, based on the information provided, I will refuse to purchase 8dio products or recommend 8dio products to my friends until Troels or 8dio publicly addresses this situation.


Inclined to agree. Reading about this makes me sad. What a terrible company.


----------



## Mike Fox

Lionel Schmitt said:


> I think I've done about 8-10 demo tracks for 8dio which were very well received and displayed almost always on top, 1st or 2nd track.
> 
> I can safely say I gained zero opportunities from that, not even a nice message.
> 
> Same goes for some YouTube uploads with with up to 300.000 views for some of my tracks, with no observable follower increase after that.
> 
> Nothing to do with 8dio itself (I'm rather grateful they always put them far up the list haha, I certainly had a good shot) just saying that exposure is never a good thing to rely on.
> 
> And creative freedom depends on the developer, I've had full creative freedom here and a very strong direction + rejection because it didn't follow it elsewhere. In that case there was a library from the catalog as payment though even though the track wasn't used - that wasn't 8dio to be clear.


I’m not saying writing demo tracks is a form of exposure you can rely on. 

But I am saying that you will generally gain better exposure as an artist by writing demo tracks than by creating official walkthroughs. 

When you watch a walkthrough video, say from Native Instruments, you generally don’t stop to think who created it and the amount of work that went into it. It’s a dead end for the creator as far as artistic exposure goes (which is one reason why monetary value makes way more sense in those situations).

But with sample library demo tracks? Countless times Ive found an artist who I ended up buying their music from, and continue to follow. 

Again, you can also use that track for your own demo reel, spotify, whatever. The same cannot be said about creating an official walkthrough video for a developer.

But i think we’re getting off track here, so I’ll just reiterate that no developer can reasonably expect anyone to create an official walkthrough video in exchange for an NFR.


----------



## Markrs

I am really sorry to hear of people’s experience with 8Dio. 

I probably (almost certainly to be honest) have more of there libraries than any other developer and enjoyed them, imperfections and all (the attractive price helped to during sales and glitches). I also had good customer service from the company though no conversations with Tawnia or Troels.

So it feels very sad about how they have treated people. I really care about how people are treated, in fact it is the job I do for a living to care about the experience customers receive. 

What surprises me when I watch his walkthrough videos he really comes across as passionate and caring in a way. It is a bit hard to describe but the videos felt unscripted and genuine even though he is marketing a product he has created. However, hearing these accounts, I feel duped and naive. 

Not sure if we will get a response from 8Dio, but in this small industry, I think reputation and trust are very important and once lost it can be hard to regain it again.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Hansu Heya said:


> I am really wondering ... in a forum full of composers the work of an influencer and video creator is really appreciated more than that of a (good) composer?


For the popular influencers here, those things are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## Johnny

Hansu Heya said:


> Although it has to be said: not being paid for library demos is pretty common! Even with the bigger brands. Just as common as directors or producers asking you to write music for free, when you haven’t got enough credits on your belt … it is not just 8dio, although they might be particularly bad, I just wouldn’t know due to lack of experience. I guess, publicly talking about the exploitation you witness in your own field of work is something many people rather step back from. That is why you hear those things less often, although I have seen enough to know it is pretty common, unfortunately. Just like with every profession that does not have a strong position in terms of power and politics.
> 
> Regarding developers specifically, I also remember rather unpleasant confrontations with certain founding members of other sample library developers who used to visit forums and “defend” their products. Also not an 8dio specific thing.


All valid points, however in this rather unique situation, bullying and threatening with lawsuits from a dev, I would argue is rather uncommon practice in this industry and merely bad form all around- no matter what year it occurred. That being said, it is very inspiring to see that VI has finally become a safe space where people can safely come forward and talk about past events of abuse and bullying from any developer, without feeling like their 2015 charity thread would be mysteriously deleted, or that they would be banned from VI for all eternity, and then bullied and threatened with a lawsuit from the same developer.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Mike Fox said:


> I’m not saying writing demo tracks is a form of exposure you can rely on.
> 
> But I am saying that you will generally gain better exposure as an artist by writing demo tracks than by creating official walkthroughs.
> 
> When you watch a walkthrough video, say from Native Instruments, you generally don’t stop to think who created it and the amount of work that went into it. It’s a dead end for the creator as far as artistic exposure goes (which is one reason why monetary value makes way more sense in those situations).
> 
> But with sample library demo tracks? Countless times Ive found an artist who I ended up buying their music from, and continue to follow.
> 
> Again, you can also use that track for your own demo reel, spotify, whatever. The same cannot be said about creating an official walkthrough video for a developer.
> 
> But i think we’re getting off track here, so I’ll just reiterate that no developer can reasonably expect anyone to create an official walkthrough video in exchange for an NFR.


Yea, it seems we agree on the overall point. 
I feel like there should be compensation beyond receiving the library for* both*.
Both is work without knowing if the library will be worthwhile as pay. Which is a bad deal in both cases.


----------



## Mike Fox

Lionel Schmitt said:


> Can the same be reasonable expected for demo composition though?
> Not sure if you mean to say that.
> 
> I feel like there should be compensation beyond receiving the library for both.
> Both is work without knowing if the library will be worthwhile as pay. Which is a bad deal in both cases.


Yes, I also believe a composer should be paid for their demo tracks, especially if a developer reaches out to a specific composer to write for them.


----------



## EgM

A composer should always be paid—money!

In this case from a sound library developer... what is the purpose of "exposure"? I mean, only other composers watch or listen to these reviews, not film directors or game developers


----------



## Daren Audio

I do recall since joining this great forum, a former employee/staff who worked for said company mentioned how they were mis-treated while working for them. He/She was "silenced" by fans of the products thinking it was a disgruntled individual for speaking out. 

Now that more people have spoken up, it makes you wonder he/she was also "threatened or bullied" behind the scenes.

I'm glad Sarah was able to team up and work with Impact Soundworks' Tokyo Scoring Strings.


----------



## TheWhat

Threats of litigation over the smallest thing is not a good look. You come off as a coke addled megalomaniac. As my fellow American brethren like to say: "You 'bes not pull out a gun unless you're willing to use it."

So as an outsider who uses sample libraries for fun to soothe his soul I say this. You do realize you make sample libraries right? You're not making a breakthrough with nuclear fusion or feeding billions with crops. You're not Oppenheimer.

Geez Lousie ya'll is cray-cray


----------



## robgb

wst3 said:


> FWIW I've watched a bunch of developers here implode over issues that appeared, from the outside, to be frivolous. Some were, some were not, and some remain clouded in mystery.


Yes. Who doesn't remember the forum chaos over a certain member's YouTube/Twitch review of a brand name strings library? VI-Control was buzzing for quite some time.

I'm sorry to hear that anyone has been harassed in any way, but I have to base any buying decisions and recommendations on my own personal experience and on the library itself. If I were to avoid buying product from a company that did something I didn't agree with, or treated a customer in a way that the customer felt was unfair or abusive, I would probably never buy anything.

That said, I hope those who feel they have been wronged or harmed in any way will fully recover from the experience. I have been bullied to the point of massive anxiety attacks in the past, so I know how difficult such things can be.


----------



## David Kudell

It takes me anywhere from 5-10 days to produce the walkthrough videos I do. Here's a bit of what's involved:

- The first day is spent downloading the library, make Cubase tracks for every instrument's articulation, figure out the delays, and start coming up with ideas. A proper demo doesn't just use legato patches, it showcases all of the articulations unique to that library, so I need to spend time with the library and figure out what makes it special, explore the mic options, and how it works in general.
- Then I write the demo, which can take a day or several days...when you know a demo is going to be analyzed for any flaws you have to be very meticulous. On top of that, I try to make it a piece that stands alone, with a memorable melody or hook. Most of my demos make it onto an album I release later.
- I'm constantly refining the track, bouncing it and listening in my car, sending to the developer for feedback. I usually don't have much feedback from the developer anymore, which means I'm getting better I guess. Finally, after several versions and mixing, the track is ready to go.
- Then I have to start on the video portion. How do I best explain what I did and how I used the library? I write out a full script because I've tried to just riff off the top of my head and I generally don't explain things fully or I leave important parts out. This script takes several hours.
- Then I have to set up my camera and lighting gear. I'm a video producer so you'd think that makes things go faster, but it just makes me more particular about how things look. So it's 3 point lighting, a proper cinema camera with overhead boom mic, etc. Sure, I could keep this gear set up in my studio but it'd look like a mess all the time with wires running everywhere, so I break it down between shoots. I also have to set up the screen capture and make sure that's all working.
- I shoot the whole thing, which takes longer than it should because even though I'm using a teleprompter to read my script, I still fumble on words every once in a while.
- I do all the screen captures. Playing individual sections or just certain tracks. Then I screen capture the main DAW play through, in which I capture about 7-10 different views of the DAW (strings, brass, perc, all tracks, piano roll, etc) so I can edit those all together later.
- Then I ingest all the footage and edit it all together, choosing the best takes, adding in the correct screen captures, balancing all the audio levels so the voice isn't louder than the music, and vice-versa. Doing overlapped edits on stuff so there's overlap between my talking and the screencast, to keep the video flowing well and to keep it from becoming boring.
- When I have an edit that works, I send the video to the developer to make sure they're ok with everything. Then I export the final master. Then I also often create a 1 minute social media version in three formats - 16x9, 1x1, and 9x16.

So yeah, the better part of 1-2 weeks. I'm sure some folks could do it quicker, but I'd prefer to put the time into it and make something very polished that I'm proud to have my face on. That's also why I only do a couple of them a year nowadays. But, yes, I do get paid.


----------



## wst3

TheWhat said:


> Threats of litigation over the smallest thing is not a good look.


The problem is that the mere threat of litigation is enough to silence someone. The cost to defend one's self is prohibitive, and the person making the threat knows that.

There was once a forum where various physics topics were discussed. Not rocket science, good old basic, high school level physics that has been settled for a very long time.

A member of that forum brought up an advertisement for a product that, at least on the surface, appeared to violate some laws of physics. Several folks explained how the statement in the ad was incorrect. The man behind the ad popped in and explained his theory, which was quickly refuted.

Unbeknownst to most on the forum this gentleman then threatened anyone that disagreed with him, claiming they were damaging his business. And everyone stopped posting, most of them leaving the forum for good. We later learned that the gentleman in question was very quick to threaten lawsuits.

I am not mentioning names because heaven only knows what forums he watches for mention of his name. It has even been mentioned here, and no one seemed to bother questioning him. I feel bad for folks that are taken in by him. Fortunately for them most of his products work, not for the reasons he states, but at least they are not being ripped off completely. (I can not vouch for all of them since I have no direct experience with some of them.)

Anyway, it is sad that the threat of a lawsuit can shut someone down. I have the upmost respect for anyone that stands up to a bully, but I do not think less of someone that simply walks away. This is the society in which we live.


----------



## Soundbed

David Kudell said:


> It takes me anywhere from 5-10 days to produce the walkthrough videos I do. Here's a bit of what's involved:
> 
> - The first day is spent downloading the library, make Cubase tracks for every instrument's articulation, figure out the delays, and start coming up with ideas. A proper demo doesn't just use legato patches, it showcases all of the articulations unique to that library, so I need to spend time with the library and figure out what makes it special, explore the mic options, and how it works in general.
> - Then I write the demo, which can take a day or several days...when you know a demo is going to be analyzed for any flaws you have to be very meticulous. On top of that, I try to make it a piece that stands alone, with a memorable melody or hook. Most of my demos make it onto an album I release later.
> - I'm constantly refining the track, bouncing it and listening in my car, sending to the developer for feedback. I usually don't have much feedback from the developer anymore, which means I'm getting better I guess. Finally, after several versions and mixing, the track is ready to go.
> - Then I have to start on the video portion. How do I best explain what I did and how I used the library? I write out a full script because I've tried to just riff off the top of my head and I generally don't explain things fully or I leave important parts out. This script takes several hours.
> - Then I have to set up my camera and lighting gear. I'm a video producer so you'd think that makes things go faster, but it just makes me more particular about how things look. So it's 3 point lighting, a proper cinema camera with overhead boom mic, etc. Sure, I could keep this gear set up in my studio but it'd look like a mess all the time with wires running everywhere, so I break it down between shoots. I also have to set up the screen capture and make sure that's all working.
> - I shoot the whole thing, which takes longer than it should because even though I'm using a teleprompter to read my script, I still fumble on words every once in a while.
> - I do all the screen captures. Playing individual sections or just certain tracks. Then I screen capture the main DAW play through, in which I capture about 7-10 different views of the DAW (strings, brass, perc, all tracks, piano roll, etc) so I can edit those all together later.
> - Then I ingest all the footage and edit it all together, choosing the best takes, adding in the correct screen captures, balancing all the audio levels so the voice isn't louder than the music, and vice-versa. Doing overlapped edits on stuff so there's overlap between my talking and the screencast, to keep the video flowing well and to keep it from becoming boring.
> - When I have an edit that works, I send the video to the developer to make sure they're ok with everything. Then I export the final master. Then I also often create a 1 minute social media version in three formats - 16x9, 1x1, and 9x16.
> 
> So yeah, the better part of 1-2 weeks. I'm sure some folks could do it quicker, but I'd prefer to put the time into it and make something very polished that I'm proud to have my face on. That's also why I only do a couple of them a year nowadays. But, yes, I do get paid.


My steps are pretty much the same!

1. Download and install
2. Procrastinate and worry that I won't do the library justice
3. Set up all the cameras, shower and shave, experience technical issues
4. Try to edit, realize I forgot all the tricks to multi-camera editing, search Google for tutorials like this:









Multicam Tips & Tricks for Premiere Pro Editors - PremierePro.net


I wrote the Multicam chapter in the Best Practices and Workflow Guide for Adobe, and this post is a collection of both simple and more advanced techniques and workflows that didn’t fit in the...




premierepro.net





5. Deliver after being asked when I'm going to have it done a zillion times
6. Keep my day job


----------



## Andrew Aversa

Daren Audio said:


> I do recall since joining this great forum, a former employee/staff who worked for said company mentioned how they were mis-treated while working for them. He/She was "silenced" by fans of the products thinking it was a disgruntled individual for speaking out.
> 
> Now that more people have spoken up, it makes you wonder he/she was also "threatened or bullied" behind the scenes.
> 
> I'm glad Sarah was able to team up and work with Impact Soundworks' Tokyo Scoring Strings.


We're very very happy to be working with Sarah. Her work on TSS was just the beginning. TSSS is coming (this year, maybe next - it's already recorded) with her direct input on the legato process, plus we'll be revising the engine and improving it further (w/ TSS as well.) She was also the primary programmer on Tokyo Scoring Drum Kits. Plenty more to come beyond these libraries, and even beyond the Tokyo series.


----------



## timbit2006

I've always got extremely strong "Live, Love, Laugh" "yoga mom" vibes from all of 8dio. I wonder if anyone else feels the same thing.

By the way... the way I say it is not in a good way.


----------



## Evans

timbit2006 said:


> I've always got extremely strong "Live, Love, Laugh" "yoga mom" vibes from all of 8dio. I wonder if anyone else feels the same thing.
> 
> By the way... the way I say it is not in a good way.


That feels belittling to all the yoga moms who do not engage in ugly business practices.


----------



## Orpheus Glory

Markrs said:


> What surprises me when I watch his walkthrough videos he really comes across as passionate and caring in a way. It is a bit hard to describe but the videos felt unscripted and genuine even though he is marketing a product he has created. However, hearing these accounts, I feel duped and naive.


I feel the same. He seems to be genuine and sympathetic in the videos. If the stories are true about the way they treat customers and professionals... I feel duped.

But saying no to them is easy for me. I did buy Anthology, but I can't get along with their UI very well. So with this shenanigans outed, I will definitely ignore everything coming out of 8dio.


----------



## ibanez1

robgb said:


> Yes. Who doesn't remember the forum chaos over a certain member's YouTube/Twitch review of a brand name strings library? VI-Control was buzzing for quite some time.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that anyone has been harassed in any way, but I have to base any buying decisions and recommendations on my own personal experience and on the library itself. If I were to avoid buying product from a company that did something I didn't agree with, or treated a customer in a way that the customer felt was unfair or abusive, I would probably never buy anything.
> 
> That said, I hope those who feel they have been wronged or harmed in any way will fully recover from the experience. I have been bullied to the point of massive anxiety attacks in the past, so I know how difficult such things can be.


I understand what you're saying and i'm still at this point conflicted. We all most likely buy products on a day to day basis and if we knew how they were sourced and created from beginning to end and who was harmed during the process, we may end up not buying anything . Also, i'm not usually one that likes joining a parade of pitchforks until I've seen enough evidence about what has happened.

For me, it's a personal threshold of what seems to be repeated obvious wrongdoing and a choice to spend my money elsewhere. I still plan on using the 8DIO products I have as I can't get a refund and it helps nobody at this point by sinking my entire investment to make a further statement. 

But I can decide where my future money and recommendations go at least for the time being. It shouldn't be much to ask out of all the businesses that exists that sample library developers can both make great products and treat people like human beings.


----------



## timbit2006

Evans said:


> That feels belittling to all the yoga moms who do not engage in ugly business practices.


Okay maybe I should make a stipulation: "Live, Love, Laugh" "yoga mom" *messages you after 10 years of not talking to you to promote some pyramid scheme product they are selling* vibes.


----------



## Go To 11

David Kudell said:


> It takes me anywhere from 5-10 days to produce the walkthrough videos I do. Here's a bit of what's involved:
> 
> - The first day is spent downloading the library, make Cubase tracks for every instrument's articulation, figure out the delays, and start coming up with ideas. A proper demo doesn't just use legato patches, it showcases all of the articulations unique to that library, so I need to spend time with the library and figure out what makes it special, explore the mic options, and how it works in general.
> - Then I write the demo, which can take a day or several days...when you know a demo is going to be analyzed for any flaws you have to be very meticulous. On top of that, I try to make it a piece that stands alone, with a memorable melody or hook. Most of my demos make it onto an album I release later.
> - I'm constantly refining the track, bouncing it and listening in my car, sending to the developer for feedback. I usually don't have much feedback from the developer anymore, which means I'm getting better I guess. Finally, after several versions and mixing, the track is ready to go.
> - Then I have to start on the video portion. How do I best explain what I did and how I used the library? I write out a full script because I've tried to just riff off the top of my head and I generally don't explain things fully or I leave important parts out. This script takes several hours.
> - Then I have to set up my camera and lighting gear. I'm a video producer so you'd think that makes things go faster, but it just makes me more particular about how things look. So it's 3 point lighting, a proper cinema camera with overhead boom mic, etc. Sure, I could keep this gear set up in my studio but it'd look like a mess all the time with wires running everywhere, so I break it down between shoots. I also have to set up the screen capture and make sure that's all working.
> - I shoot the whole thing, which takes longer than it should because even though I'm using a teleprompter to read my script, I still fumble on words every once in a while.
> - I do all the screen captures. Playing individual sections or just certain tracks. Then I screen capture the main DAW play through, in which I capture about 7-10 different views of the DAW (strings, brass, perc, all tracks, piano roll, etc) so I can edit those all together later.
> - Then I ingest all the footage and edit it all together, choosing the best takes, adding in the correct screen captures, balancing all the audio levels so the voice isn't louder than the music, and vice-versa. Doing overlapped edits on stuff so there's overlap between my talking and the screencast, to keep the video flowing well and to keep it from becoming boring.
> - When I have an edit that works, I send the video to the developer to make sure they're ok with everything. Then I export the final master. Then I also often create a 1 minute social media version in three formats - 16x9, 1x1, and 9x16.
> 
> So yeah, the better part of 1-2 weeks. I'm sure some folks could do it quicker, but I'd prefer to put the time into it and make something very polished that I'm proud to have my face on. That's also why I only do a couple of them a year nowadays. But, yes, I do get paid.


Your QC is second to none. As a cameraperson and perfectionist, it’s heartening to know my slow process is equally matched to yours! I always appreciate your videos. I feel in safe hands.


----------



## artomatic

To this date, I have bought over $18k from 8Dio.
That's if for me though, after reading about their threats, bullying, etc.
I loved a couple of their libraries but I, too, can not support this company any longer.
Final answer.


----------



## FireGS

wst3 said:


> Anyway, it is sad that the threat of a lawsuit can shut someone down.


FWIW, people should learn a little bit about the rights they have, and know the difference between libel, slander, defamation, etc. Not all things said against someone can be those things, and the burden of proof is on the claimant, and has a really high bar (in most cases). IANAL YMMV.



wst3 said:


> upmost


*utmost


----------



## Petrucci

Wanted to buy Anthology Strings on recent sale to get Adachi, but reading all this I stopped and I'm glad my GAS was cured, even though it was a steal at that price. I'm big fan of Cory's reviews and TSS/TSD


----------



## José Herring

I have nothing to add to this but I do wonder given that Cory has accused 8dio of doing things that are actually crimes, should we at VI control be discussing it out in the open? 

Threatening lawsuits and threatening to expose personal information online without the person’s consent are actual crimes. So in my mind this issues goes beyond just bad customer treatment.


----------



## soap

May I ask what the process of the whole thing is like, the various attitudes and opinions make it impossible for me to see what happened in the whole thing. Can someone please briefly explain what's going on as I also own their library and would like to know more about this company？？？


----------



## MusicIstheBest

José Herring said:


> should we at VI control be discussing it out in the open?


Since it was brought out into the open publicly outside of this forum, why not? not any different than discussing the weather in that regard


----------



## syrinx

soap said:


> May I ask what the process of the whole thing is like, the various attitudes and opinions make it impossible for me to see what happened in the whole thing. Can someone please briefly explain what's going on as I also own their library and would like to know more about this company？？？


Check from post 613 within this thread.
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/adachi-important-update-in-op.116094/post-5269516

And I think it "started" from this post:

Post in thread '8Dio Anthology $50 - Flash Sale'
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/8dio-anthology-50-flash-sale.134750/post-5269343

Edit: added link to the post in this thread.

Edit: And obviously the OP in this thread.


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## rsg22

I'm a bit confused - I never bought anything from this developer and don't plan to - but Cory's linked video is 5 yrs old if I'm looking at the right one. Did something else happen recently, or is it that this information is just now being discovered by more people?


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## Lionel Schmitt

Markrs said:


> What surprises me when I watch his walkthrough videos he really comes across as passionate and caring in a way. It is a bit hard to describe but the videos felt unscripted and genuine even though he is marketing a product he has created. However, hearing these accounts, I feel duped and naive.


I don't see a conflict between that and the stories.
People are complex creatures. Thankfully and unfortunately.
Actually most heinous criminals I've looked into so far through good ol true crime podcasts seemed to make a good impression or even an excellent one before being exposed.
Larry Nassar might be a good example.
Just a general comment on psychology and human nature. Not too quick to jump on any side regarding 8dio.


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## gamma-ut

Markrs said:


> What surprises me when I watch his walkthrough videos he really comes across as passionate and caring in a way. It is a bit hard to describe but the videos felt unscripted and genuine even though he is marketing a product he has created.



They often go together: self-belief can be a powerful drug. When you get to threatening people because they question something you’re passionate about, that’s where it turns into a drug problem.


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## Gerbil

ibanez1 said:


> I understand what you're saying and i'm still at this point conflicted. We all most likely buy products on a day to day basis and if we knew how they were sourced and created from beginning to end and who was harmed during the process, we may end up not buying anything . Also, i'm not usually one that likes joining a parade of pitchforks until I've seen enough evidence about what has happened.
> 
> For me, it's a personal threshold of what seems to be repeated obvious wrongdoing and a choice to spend my money elsewhere. I still plan on using the 8DIO products I have as I can't get a refund and it helps nobody at this point by sinking my entire investment to make a further statement.
> 
> But I can decide where my future money and recommendations go at least for the time being. It shouldn't be much to ask out of all the businesses that exists that sample library developers can both make great products and treat people like human beings.


Agree. 

We each have to draw our own lines in the sand on this one.


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