# IK announces AI Machine Modeling



## IKMultimedia (Jul 21, 2022)

*Enabling all users to create virtual versions of any rig*





*IK Multimedia is pleased to announce AI Machine Modeling™, a revolutionary new technology from the makers of AmpliTube, the world’s most popular amp and FX sim.*

For the first time, using artificial intelligence, Machine Modeling software enables guitar and bass players, without any custom hardware, to model the sound of any amp, cabinet or combo, plus pedals like distortion, overdrive, fuzz, EQ or boost, all with a new level of accuracy that’s virtually indistinguishable from the real thing.

IK’s powerful machine learning neural network captures the rig’s tone in just minutes using real guitar signals, not just test tones, for a level of authenticity unimaginable until now.

*How It Works*

Users simply route IK’s special guitar/bass capture track through their setup to record the sound of any rig or piece of gear and then feed it into the Machine Modeling’s deep neural network software together with the original DI track. The AI Machine Modeling software will compare the DI and wet signals to generate an exact algorithm of the modeled rig in minutes.

*Tone Models*

The result is called a “Tone Model,” a hyper-realistic, dynamic software clone of the rig or gear. Tone Models reproduce every nuance of an amp or pedal in precise detail with technology so advanced that even an amp and cabinet can be modeled together, then the two virtually separated to try other cabinets.

The algorithm can even capture an entire rig including harmonically complex fuzz, overdrive or other distortion pedals in front of an amp. And users can create all of these with just a computer, audio interface and reamplification box.

*Minimal Hardware*

Creating a Tone Model is easy and requires only a few pieces of standard recording equipment in addition to a modern computer. An audio interface like IK’s AXE I/O with its dedicated Amp Out is ideal for users to create Tone Models using a mic and no additional hardware. Or any regular 2 input/output audio interface and reamplification box can be used to capture amps, combos, and pedals.

Optional equipment for Tone Modeling without microphones includes a reamplification box to connect an amp/pedal rig to an interface, and/or an attenuator/load box to connect a power amp directly to an audio interface. And that’s it. AI Machine Modeling software does the rest.

*Hear It Now, Try It Soon*

To hear AI Machine Modeling in action and compare it with the original modeled gear, please visit: *www.amplitube.com/ai*

This is where users can also be entered to be among the first to try AI Machine Modeling with a chance to win a surprise gift.


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## tcb (Jul 21, 2022)

looking forward to release!


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## IKMultimedia (Jul 21, 2022)




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## musicalweather (Jul 21, 2022)

Would like to see a demonstration of the tone modeling.


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## IKMultimedia (Jul 21, 2022)

musicalweather said:


> Would like to see a demonstration of the tone modeling.


This is a teaser, there will be more information coming.


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## Spid (Jul 21, 2022)

That’s pretty much a software version of the Kemper… which is a good thing to me!


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## Daren Audio (Jul 21, 2022)

WHOA!!!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 21, 2022)

Kemper, Axe FX, Quad Cortex, TH-U and now this - big momentum for the capture / tone match trend!


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## IKMultimedia (Jul 25, 2022)

Thank you for your interest, glad to see some excitement for this. We will have more information as soon as possible. In the mean time if you are interested in being among the first to know (and have a chance at a very cool surprise gift), there's a signup on the AI Machine Modeling page.


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## IKMultimedia (Jul 27, 2022)




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## gohrev (Jul 27, 2022)

Very interesting!!


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## timbit2006 (Jul 27, 2022)

It's 2022 and there's still no emulators of the Ampeg V-4 so I'm excited for this if it can come close to getting the beautiful glassy cleans and breakup modeled of my favourite amp.


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## Daniel James (Jul 27, 2022)

Next up lads, train that thing to listen to string players, then convert midi into a 'real' performance of a player. Then I will provide you my Kidney, or the value of it...I'll even let you choose 😂

-DJ


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## AudioLoco (Jul 28, 2022)

That is very promising! 
The demo sounds great.
Kemper is preparing to being wiped out. 
I'm imagining a hardware IK pedal will come too (????)


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## GtrString (Jul 28, 2022)

This is really exciting news, bringing the tech to the people. I could see uses of this for sure. I would sign up, but your cookie policy seems in violation of the EU GDPR directive.


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## IKMultimedia (Jul 28, 2022)

GtrString said:


> This is really exciting news, bringing the tech to the people. I could see uses of this for sure. I would sign up, but your cookie policy seems in violation of the EU GDPR directive.


We are 100% GDPR compliant, our Italian office has regular reviews by lawyers to ensure this. Edit - and I know that this specific signup was heavily reviewed and approved legally as it was brought up specifically and I was made aware that it was compliant. Our site is compliant as well.


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## MartinH. (Jul 28, 2022)

IKMultimedia said:


> *Enabling all users to create virtual versions of any rig*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Will this need iLok? And how easy will it be to share profiles between users? Are you planning a sort of community hub where people can upload their trained models?


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## Daniel James (Jul 28, 2022)

BTW Could I feasibly set up an FX chain on my machine and run that through my studio monitors to capture that as a bizarre multieffect? That could be fun to experiment with

-DJ


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## noiseinmymind (Jul 28, 2022)

How CPU intensive is this software?


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## TonalDynamics (Jul 28, 2022)

This is neat and all, but afaik there will always be a fairly high amount of value with full-featured ampsims of an entire head, because every knob and button is modeled thus making it behave more like the 'real amp'. (same holds true with pedals)

That's why NDSP is basically untouched right now in the sim game, and I predict that will continue until someone else challenges their component modeling process.

From what I can tell this isn't really adding any value if you already own a Kemper... which I don't because frankly as I said — and this is coming from a recording guitarist for two decades — when you are 'inside the box' there is very little value in replicating an exact tone of some super complex hardware signal chain _without_ having access to that amp head or pedal's controls.

It sounds good on paper and might work in a vacuum, sure, but in reality the same exact tone hardly ever works for the same song or riff twice, and when you lose your ability to tweak, well you may as well just go back to your hardware stack and dial it in for that particular riff or phrase.

The only real value stuff like this has is if you are on the road in a hotel away from your amps and need a quick and dirty guitar tone to sketch an idea with... but that's my $.02, ymmv.

Cheers


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## timbit2006 (Jul 28, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> This is neat and all, but afaik there will always be a fairly high amount of value with full-featured ampsims of an entire head, because every knob and button is modeled thus making it behave more like the 'real amp'. (same holds true with pedals)
> 
> That's why NDSP is basically untouched right now in the sim game, and I predict that will continue until someone else challenges their component modeling process.
> 
> ...


I've had the same guitar tone for more than 10 years now and would not change anything about it so for my situation practicing with headphones or writing it will work fine, I would never in a million years consider using something like this to replace my actual gear on a recording though, that's pure sacrilege and I give the finger wag of shame to anyone that uses modeling amps on legit projects.


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## noiseinmymind (Jul 29, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> I've had the same guitar tone for more than 10 years now and would not change anything about it so for my situation practicing with headphones or writing it will work fine, I would never in a million years consider using something like this to replace my actual gear on a recording though, that's pure sacrilege and I give the finger wag of shame to anyone that uses modeling amps on legit projects.


In a blind mix you could not hear the difference between a modeler and the real thing these days.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 29, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> and I give the finger wag of shame to anyone that uses modeling amps on legit projects.


😂


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## Zedcars (Jul 29, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> I've had the same guitar tone for more than 10 years now and would not change anything about it so for my situation practicing with headphones or writing it will work fine, I would never in a million years consider using something like this to replace my actual gear on a recording though, that's pure sacrilege and I give the finger wag of shame to anyone that uses modeling amps on legit projects.


Then you’ll have a very sore finger over the next few years. ☝️


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## Nico5 (Jul 29, 2022)

Since I dual amp with my tube amps, one thing I’m missing from too many integrated software amp/cab/pedalboard plugins is the ability to conveniently dual amp.

Of course it’s generally possible via using multiple plugin instances, but that’s a much more convoluted workflow.


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## Hendrixon (Jul 29, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> This is neat and all, but afaik there will always be a fairly high amount of value with full-featured ampsims of an entire head, because every knob and button is modeled thus making it behave more like the 'real amp'. (same holds true with pedals)
> 
> That's why NDSP is basically untouched right now in the sim game, and I predict that will continue until someone else challenges their component modeling process.
> 
> ...


AxFx does that.
It models the electronic components of the circuits (like a SPICE model) so every knob behaves exactly as the same knob on the real amps.

In my experience so far nothing plays dynamically like the Axe... and I'm still on an Axe II  
Axe III had many firmware revisions since launch so I'm sure its even better (never played one).


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## Hendrixon (Jul 29, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> Since I dual amp with my tube amps, one thing I’m missing from too many integrated software amp/cab/pedalboard plugins is the ability to conveniently dual amp.
> 
> Of course it’s generally possible via using multiple plugin instances, but that’s a much more convoluted workflow.


Axe II does that easily, plus each amp can have two cabs.
Axe III can do much more complex setups (as it has double the DSP power).


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## AudioLoco (Jul 29, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> This is neat and all, but afaik there will always be a fairly high amount of value with full-featured ampsims of an entire head, because every knob and button is modeled thus making it behave more like the 'real amp'. (same holds true with pedals)
> 
> That's why NDSP is basically untouched right now in the sim game, and I predict that will continue until someone else challenges their component modeling process.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I usually keep my amp set pretty much the same way. Most of the tone/FX variety of my sound comes from pedals. My amp of choice is there for the main tone and I rarely tweak the settings (much) apart from the reverb knob.
I'm sure you could sample a few different EQ settings: very mid aggressive, super warm, mld settings etc etc....
If this thing can replicate my magical Blues Deluxe sound I'd be delighted.

Anyhow I often use amp sims, but never on Rock projects. From the first line6 Pod to the latest software, until now, nothing has cyet onvinced me to drop my tube amp and mics.
Maybe this might be the one?


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## AudioLoco (Jul 29, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> BTW Could I feasibly set up an FX chain on my machine and run that through my studio monitors to capture that as a bizarre multieffect? That could be fun to experiment with
> 
> -DJ


That sounds like a great idea... I guess you could sample any possible effect chain or pedal or anything with this software.... muhamuhamuha - evil laughter!

Using the tech for stuff it was not meant to do is always really fun and creative.


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## Jose7822 (Jul 29, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> It sounds good on paper and might work in a vacuum, sure, but in reality the same exact tone hardly ever works for the same song or riff twice, and when you lose your ability to tweak, well you may as well just go back to your hardware stack and dial it in for that particular riff or phrase.
> 
> The only real value stuff like this has is if you are on the road in a hotel away from your amps and need a quick and dirty guitar tone to sketch an idea with... but that's my $.02, ymmv.
> 
> Cheers



That’s an unfortunate misconception of how versatile the Kemper, and possibly even this software, can be. Just because you have a static image of the amp doesn’t mean you can’t tweak it at all. Obviously it’s not going to be the same as tweaking the real thing, but it’s also not as static as you think it is. That said, that’s precisely the reason why people profile several amp settings, in order to have the different shades of color you might get from a particular amp.

Personally, I don’t continuously keep changing the settings even on my real amps. There are only a handful of them that I use and that’s about it. If I need another tone, I go to a different amp (profile). I feel like, if this is done well, this software could be a hit for studio recording. The issue will be that at first people won’t have many quality ”profiles” (or whatever they call it) to have access to, just like what happened with the Kemper when it first launched. But that’s definitely not an issue now, and I assume that will be the case with this software.

All that said, this is not going to be for everyone. Some people like tweaking and others just want to get going as fast as possible, nothing wrong with either approach. They’re just different approaches. I think this software has a place in people’s toolkit provided they nail the feel aspect, not just the tone.


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## gedlig (Jul 29, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> Since I dual amp with my tube amps, one thing I’m missing from too many integrated software amp/cab/pedalboard plugins is the ability to conveniently dual amp.
> 
> Of course it’s generally possible via using multiple plugin instances, but that’s a much more convoluted workflow.


What exactly do you find difficult with dual amping in modellers and plugins? You can dual amp on the top modellers like axe fx and fm9, on the helix, on the quad cortex. With plugins it's also pretty easy on helix native, bias fx, amplitube. With ndsp stuff you do need two instances though :/

Edit: if this is integrated into amplitube, pretty sure it would also be easy to run the models of your amps dualy in there too


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## gedlig (Jul 29, 2022)

Interesting to see more profiling type options surfacing. Also wondering if there won't be marketing issues with neural networks and AI being used for a very similar process and product :D


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## EanS (Jul 29, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> I give the finger wag of shame to anyone that uses modeling amps on legit projects.


Like Plini for instance? 

Issue is that any major studio won't ask you for your guitar tone recorded baked. They will always ask you for a clean DI and the baked sound for reference..

What do you think happens next? Well the same with live drum kits being recorded, they get replaced by shots.

And in the mix, we will never notice that. 

Can you spot by ears which tracks Page used a Telecaster instead of a Les Paul? He didn't like playing Telecasters but had to for the mix.

So in the end, it's the final product. I spent decades doing the same, but now I can dial a tone I like in most vst's since it's my sound, not the equipment. No one will notice a US$50k klon centaur vs a $39.99 pedal vst in a track. 

Go for music. We guitar players are such divas, like Malmsteen 🥰 he has the right to be like that. Have you listened to his 24 albums? They all sound the same, he keeps his tone intact. Amusing? Not.


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## Tim_Wells (Jul 29, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> ...I give the finger wag of shame to anyone that uses modeling amps on legit projects.


Get the popcorn...  

As an aside, I hope this means IKMM is working on an actual modeled guitar, in the mold of MODO Bass. Even if it wasn't "perfect", it might be a nice supplement to sampled guitars like Orange Tree.


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## TonalDynamics (Jul 29, 2022)

Jose7822 said:


> That’s an unfortunate misconception of how versatile the Kemper, and possibly even this software, can be. Just because you have a static image of the amp doesn’t mean you can’t tweak it at all. Obviously it’s not going to be the same as tweaking the real thing, but it’s also not as static as you think it is. That said, that’s precisely the reason why people profile several amp settings, in order to have the different shades of color you might get from a particular amp.
> 
> Personally, I don’t continuously keep changing the settings even on my real amps. There are only a handful of them that I use and that’s about it. If I need another tone, I go to a different amp (profile). I feel like, if this is done well, this software could be a hit for studio recording. The issue will be that at first people won’t have many quality ”profiles” (or whatever they call it) to have access to, just like what happened with the Kemper when it first launched. But that’s definitely not an issue now, and I assume that will be the case with this software.
> 
> All that said, this is not going to be for everyone. Some people like tweaking and others just want to get going as fast as possible, nothing wrong with either approach. They’re just different approaches. I think this software has a place in people’s toolkit provided they nail the feel aspect, not just the tone.


Yeah like I said there isn't a 'right' or 'wrong' way to go about it, it's just my personal experience as a guitarist.

As far as the not needing to tweak the amp much, IME it's not only that you'd need to tweak the amp, but also stuff you wanna do with all the pedals, compressors, and so forth in front of the amp, and if it's a head for instance let's say, like a Diezel VH4 or a Mesa Boogie Dual/Triple Rec., the multitude of different channel combinations have such a profound effect on the final result that not having access to them is pretty severely limiting in terms of the sonic possibilities.

If you're using a fairly simple signal chain, then the profiling will probably be a fairly powerful tool for you in some circumstances, but if you use a lot of crap in front of and after the amp like I do then it starts to make a lot less sense in a recording environment.

But I sorted all this out in my head I wanna say like 3-ish years ago(?) when deciding whether to buy a Kemper or about $800 worth of NDSP stuff; I analyzed the way I work and realize that when using hardware heads for recording and the way I like to tweak everything in the chain that it made less sense for me.

Cause it's like the amp setting you're using doesn't exist in isolation eh, it interacts with every module in the signal chain (particularly in terms of gainstaging and low-end control) so that turning something up on the amp will usually warrant altering settings on the pedal in front of it... e.g. oftentimes we like to use a lower gain channel on the head, and thus we have to blast the pre on an 808 a bit harder, as well as turning up the compressor pedal to achieve the same kind of sustain... guitar tones at the high end of the game are a constant balancing act and the snapshots just don't give me the freedom I like to have at my fingertips for tracking purposes (when tracking songs on an actual album).

I feel the same way about all the presets on my NDSP sims though; it is VERY rare when I would take a preset I've made of any clean/crunchy/lead tone and just print that to the track, because every song is different and you have to sculpt the tone to match each phrase to get the perfect amount of breakup and low end roundness, if that makes sense (especially when double-tracking).

Honestly if I traveled more the Kemper/something like this would make a lot more sense.

Different strokes!

Cheers


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## TonalDynamics (Jul 29, 2022)

Incidentally I am really enjoying this thread, all the guitar players finally coming out of the woodworks... love it!


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## TonalDynamics (Jul 29, 2022)

AudioLoco said:


> Honestly, I usually keep my amp set pretty much the same way. Most of the tone/FX variety of my sound comes from pedals. My amp of choice is there for the main tone and I rarely tweak the settings (much) apart from the reverb knob.
> I'm sure you could sample a few different EQ settings: very mid aggressive, super warm, mld settings etc etc....
> If this thing can replicate my magical Blues Deluxe sound I'd be delighted.
> 
> ...


I feel ya, for VOX, Orange, and Fender amps I am pretty much the same way, or any amp that has fairly straightforward gainstaging without a shit-ton of channels and switches and you can just dial a small handful of settings that you know and love and the profiles are probably more useful on paper there. In those cases it's usually the other stuff in the chain that I'm tweaking to sculpt the sound, but even then I'll usually just use a different mic or cab, so the profiling still wouldn't make tons of sense.

As far as not dropping your tubes for tracking, IME the sim game reaches its zenith when you are layering onto a hardware head, as opposed to just replacing everything wholesale...

Also the stuff from NDSP is just literally _miles _ahead of everyone else in the game right now, to the point where it's basically apples and oranges to compare them to anyone else, and that includes IK, Scuffham, Overloud, Nembrini, etc. The only things that can directly compete at times IMO are the offerings from P.A., because they have modeled a lot of super unique amps that don't really exist anywhere else.

But I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd take a great guitarist with ampsims over a middling guitarist with the best tubes in the universe anyday; so much of the tone is in the fingers.

Cheers!


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## flampton (Jul 29, 2022)

Haha, this thread has been funny to read because (liek all guitar threads) it has become polluted with 'important' guitar players sharing their tone ethics. Laugh at these people for they are not helpful to anyone. Thanks


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## TonalDynamics (Jul 29, 2022)

flampton said:


> Haha, this thread has been funny to read because (liek all guitar threads) it has become polluted with 'important' guitar players sharing their tone ethics. Laugh at these people for they are not helpful to anyone. Thanks


If this was aimed at me, then I'm sorry you feel that way because at multiple times I've stated that I realize there's many ways to work and everyone's needs are different; it's just not _super exciting_ for me personally with my described workflow (which may be helpful to _someone_, miraculously).

But you'll have to forgive me if 21 years of playing and about 15 of audio engineering has led me to develop a lot of highly personalized opinions on the matter 

Basically I just wish companies would start making superior SIMS instead of making tangential offers, to try and compete more directly with NDSP and P.A. at the high end; In other words I'm at the state where I'm rather jaded and disappointed with the recent offers in virtual guitar world — as I am with Orchestral stuff as well — but maybe my expectations are too high (entirely possible)

Even then, COVID has had a massive negative effect on development for essentially all things VST, so is that the main factor or is it truly just a lack of innovation and stagnation in the space?

I don't think it's really possible to know for sure one way or the other.

Cheers


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## TonalDynamics (Jul 29, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> AxFx does that.
> It models the electronic components of the circuits (like a SPICE model) so every knob behaves exactly as the same knob on the real amps.
> 
> In my experience so far nothing plays dynamically like the Axe... and I'm still on an Axe II
> Axe III had many firmware revisions since launch so I'm sure its even better (never played one).


To my regret, I have never properly played around with AXE-II or III, I really need to give it a proper demo.

The way you are describing the knob/switch component modeling sounds very interesting, and I know the Kemper has a similar feature, but from what I can tell this is not going to be a part of the IK offering? 

"The AI Machine Modeling software will compare the DI and wet signals to generate an exact algorithm of the modeled rig in minutes"

"to model the sound of any amp, cabinet or combo, plus pedals like distortion, overdrive, fuzz, EQ or boost, all with a new level of accuracy that’s virtually indistinguishable from the real thing"

Don't see anything in there about modeling the behaviors of various knobs, switches, filters, etc... but if they could achieve that with similar accuracy then my interest would be sufficiently piqued.


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## Jose7822 (Jul 29, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> If this was aimed at me, then I'm sorry you feel that way because at multiple times I've stated that I realize there's many ways to work and everyone's needs are different; it's just not _super exciting_ for me personally with my described workflow (which may be helpful to _someone_, miraculously).
> 
> But you'll have to forgive me if 21 years of playing and about 15 of audio engineering has led me to develop a lot of highly personalized opinions on the matter
> 
> ...



Sounds like nothing offered in these forums is good enough for you then, doesn’t it?

Apologies for the snark remark but, at the same time, your comments aren’t adding anything of value to this thread (especially given that this is the Commercial Announcement thread, and not a general discussion one). If you want to keep this conversation going, for the sake of those interested in this product, but more importantly, out of respect for the rules of this forum and those companies posting about their new offerings, it would be best to create a thread elsewhere. There’s no point in repeatedly posting about how this product doesn’t suit your needs.


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## Nico5 (Jul 29, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> Axe II does that easily, plus each amp can have two cabs.
> Axe III can do much more complex setups (as it has double the DSP power).


My complaint was about software, not hardware


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## AudioLoco (Jul 29, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> I'd take a great guitarist with ampsims over a middling guitarist with the best tubes in the universe anyday; so much of the tone is in the fingers.


101 percent!


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## Jose7822 (Jul 29, 2022)

Going back on topic, it would be interesting to see how well this software would do at capturing the tone from (insert favorite guitarist/song), but you summit your own DI track. IK should make a video demonstrating this. That would be amazing if it can do that!!


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## Nico5 (Jul 29, 2022)

gedlig said:


> What exactly do you find difficult with dual amping in modellers and plugins?




where did I say "modellers"?

where did I say "difficult"?


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## Nico5 (Jul 29, 2022)

I'm very much looking forward to trying the announced software. 

I consider anything that adds to my arsenal of having fun playing guitar at an affordable price a good thing. 

If the forthcoming plugin should include easy dual amping inside a single plugin, my excitement level would rise even more.


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## GtrString (Jul 29, 2022)

I think experienced guitarists are entitled to opinions about how to get the best tones for their projects, just like pianists and players in orchestras. I too prefer analog amps over digital any day, and thats why I have several. For some projects digital can get certain tones, and thats perfectly ok. But tubez for me, tnx.

It is however interesting to be able to capture my amps at the sweet spots for a quiet day, without having to fire up the tubes, mics ect. And if this can do it without heavily investing in a Kemper, I’ll jump. I don’t care enough for virtual tones to shell out for a Kemper, but the option could be nice to have for sure.. albeit not essential tbph


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## timbit2006 (Jul 29, 2022)

flampton said:


> Haha, this thread has been funny to read because (liek all guitar threads) it has become polluted with 'important' guitar players sharing their tone ethics. Laugh at these people for they are not helpful to anyone. Thanks


 ☝️(this is a finger wag of shame and not just a finger pointing up)




Zedcars said:


> Then you’ll have a very sore finger over the next few years. ☝️


I will just attach it to a metronome so it can wag forever☝️ 


I might as well add fuel to the fire and get IK some more views on their thread and mention I've personally watched 3 friends in legit bands go from tube amp to modeling amp(still with tube poweramp though) then back to tube amp again. 🍿 Also who the heck mentioned tubes? Solid State amps are cool too.


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## TonalDynamics (Jul 29, 2022)

Jose7822 said:


> Sounds like nothing offered in these forums is good enough for you then, doesn’t it?


No need to be hyperbolic mate, it's undeniable that there is less stuff to be excited about in general recently from most developers, but I was speaking strictly in terms of quantity of stuff being produced, doesn't mean I don't evaluate each offering on a case by case basis. Are you going to try to argue that less development is somehow a good thing? It's not ideal but it's unavoidable and it's the world we live in now, so there's really not much more that needs to be said about it.



Jose7822 said:


> Apologies for the snark remark but, at the same time, your comments aren’t adding anything of value to this thread (especially given that this is the Commercial Announcement thread, and not a general discussion one). If you want to keep this conversation going, for the sake of those interested in this product, but more importantly, out of respect for the rules of this forum and those companies posting about their new offerings, it would be best to create a thread elsewhere. There’s no point in repeatedly posting about how this product doesn’t suit your needs.



My elaborated second post was in direct response to your thoughts on the Kemper, so as I see it that's not so much between me and I.K. as it as between me and you; Your points on the Kemper and associated acts being more versatile than I think are well-taken, and I'll keep an open mind going forward, but I'll leave the prospective 'value' of the details to individual users. 

We both have points that reflect on our workflow, and I'm not some kind of 'tone puritan' that thinks things can only be done in a singular way; if you've got 'the sound', it don't matter how you get it, I say. I'm just sharing my own take here, as you are sharing yours.

I honestly didn't bother to look at the subforum, as I generally find stuff in 'What's New' and post from there. As far as the sub rules for commercials go it seems rather nebulous, some companies can 'allow' criticisms, and some may choose not to, apparently?

In any case I feel as though I'm being critical while still being respectful, which is what I always strive to do with new offerings.

Also bear in mind, tone-capturing isn't exactly a low-end hobby... we're talking about people who generally already have a LOT of money in heads, cabs, pedals, and expensive hardware who would comprise a large segment of the target-market.

In other words you'd be hard-pressed to find a 'tone snob' who could benefit massively from tone capture who already doesn't own a Kemper... I'm probably in some kind of minority there.



Jose7822 said:


> All that said, this is not going to be for everyone. Some people like tweaking and others just want to get going as fast as possible, nothing wrong with either approach. They’re just different approaches. I think this software has a place in people’s toolkit provided they nail the feel aspect, not just the tone.


This is pretty much what I am saying, that as someone who belongs partly to both camps I see most of the value for the latter.

Regarding the use case, my big question to IK would be whether or not they are planning to feature modeling for the various components/knobs on an amp or pedal, or if that is something they distinctly plan to offer in future, because I can't find anything alluding to this in the demo materials? This would greatly increase my own interest in the project!


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## berto (Jul 30, 2022)

Totally new to this
Can I only capture a rig that I own, or can I capture a sound from a cd too?

Virtually if I feed the software with a few bars of a song then I play the same riff with my clean direct guitar, the software should be fooled into thinking that is the DI. Unless I have to feed the 2 signals at the same time. Not clear how it works. Was there something similar with revalver by peavey?


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## MartinH. (Jul 30, 2022)

berto said:


> Totally new to this
> Can I only capture a rig that I own, or can I capture a sound from a cd too?


Only a rig or signal chain that can process a certain input signal. I assume they provide something DI-like that has to be fed through the chain and you input both that and the processed recording of it into the AI thing to let it generate a model of the signal chain.


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## berto (Jul 30, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Only a rig or signal chain that can process a certain input signal. I assume they provide something DI-like that has to be fed through the chain and you input both that and the processed recording of it into the AI thing to let it generate a model of the signal chain.


Pity. I don't have a real amp and stuff....but I seem to remember I did something like that with revalver years ago so it could be possible. Also Bias amp fx did something similar. So what is actually the new thing? The quality I guess?


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## Trash Panda (Jul 30, 2022)

I use a Boss Katana Head and Cab as my out of the box amp. Who wants to fight me? 🤘🏻


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## gedlig (Jul 30, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I use a Boss Katana Head and Cab as my out of the box amp. Who wants to fight me? 🤘🏻


Mic it with a tin can, and capture the perfect black metal tone to use in your DAW using AI


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## timbit2006 (Jul 30, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I use a Boss Katana Head and Cab as my out of the box amp. Who wants to fight me? 🤘🏻


If it pushes air to achieve the sound then it's better than in the box.


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## EanS (Jul 30, 2022)

berto said:


> Totally new to this
> Can I only capture a rig that I own, or can I capture a sound from a cd too?
> 
> Virtually if I feed the software with a few bars of a song then I play the same riff with my clean direct guitar, the software should be fooled into thinking that is the DI. Unless I have to feed the 2 signals at the same time. Not clear how it works. Was there something similar with revalver by peavey?


There's a code and don't know where it really started maybe Kemper, where the AI looks for all parameters in the sound (chain) it listens to and can replicate it not by matching the exact amps or etc... but their settings. The Quad Cortex has such AI, can capture your favorite pedal or combination of them.

So what I understand here, it is a similar concept but via software.

If you are able to isolate a track and make it listen only to the instrument, it might work well. In a CD, mp3, wav, it's a mix where the guitar is, it's even hard for a human to do it when the band is full blown playing, that's why Tabs..

Then IK will create a community where you can share such captures from different users.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 30, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> If it pushes air to achieve the sound then it's better than in the box.


Line 6 Spider would like to know your location.

Allow?

Block?


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## timbit2006 (Jul 30, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Line 6 Spider would like to know your location.
> 
> Allow?
> 
> Block?


I have a Spider II sitting in the next room.


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## berto (Jul 30, 2022)

EanS said:


> There's a code and don't know where it really started maybe Kemper, where the AI looks for all parameters in the sound (chain) it listens to and can replicate it not by matching the exact amps or etc... but their settings. The Quad Cortex has such AI, can capture your favorite pedal or combination of them.
> 
> So what I understand here, it is a similar concept but via software.
> 
> ...


There are many songs that start only with a guitar. Steve vai. Dream theater. Etc...


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## gedlig (Jul 30, 2022)

berto said:


> There are many songs that start only with a guitar. Steve vai. Dream theater. Etc...


Thing is, profiling works by sending a signal (sine sweeps+bunch of other noise to simulate playing with various intensity and muting) to the amp(+cab)/drive+amp(+cab) and then learning the sonic qualities via the return signal. If what IK are doing is more or less the same as Kemper and NDSP, having an isolated guitar track won't work.


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## JSTube (Jul 30, 2022)

IKMultimedia said:


> Thank you for your interest, glad to see some excitement for this. We will have more information as soon as possible. In the mean time if you are interested in being among the first to know (and have a chance at a very cool surprise gift), there's a signup on the AI Machine Modeling page.


With how routinely generous you guys have been, you're setting the bar pretty high for a "very cool surprise gift" -- as all the freebies thus far from you guys have been exactly that!

Looking forward to this, hopefully it can shut some of my Axe-FX and Kemper friends up (that might be the very cool surprise gift, perhaps?)


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## EanS (Jul 30, 2022)

berto said:


> There are many songs that start only with a guitar. ***Steve vai. Dream theater. Etc...


That's true, but also intro tones aren't the same as solo tones in several cases, and solo track has way
more work in the chain because it needs to cut the mix and standout.

I'm trying to make a real difference between playing guitar for yourself and have fun learning to emulate a sound vs using this tool for making music.

So another question is "how long has to be the track for the AI to read it well? Would it work if you loop a section?

(*) I'd rate 1 star anyone who dares to share a uber drenched in reverb an delay preset like such intros 😂


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## JSTube (Jul 30, 2022)

EanS said:


> That's true, but also intro tones aren't the same as solo tones in several cases, and solo track has way
> more work in the chain because it needs to cut the mix and standout.
> 
> I'm trying to make a real difference between playing guitar for yourself and have fun learning to emulate a sound vs using this tool for making music.
> ...


The more you give it to work with, the better it'll be able to match. Giving it more of the same (such as looping) might be best reserved for cases where what you're trying to match is of limited supply (like trying to match a bootleg recording or multitrack) -- as it's not really beneficial to these algorithms to receive more of the same.

The limitation on the content-to-be-matched will undoubtedly be set much higher by the IK programmers than it necessarily needs to be for the algs/AI themselves. (They'll make that threshold higher than necessary to avoid complaints of like, "man, this guy's guitar tone was COMPLETELY isolated for like, .25s during that weird part on the record!! Why can't it match?? >:(" -- unfortunately they have to do that because they know their clientele.

"Ideal" matching candidates would be like, the intro for "Ain't Talkin' Bout Love" because it's a lot "more" information about the range of the instrument/signal chain tone as it changes through its range, and the time factor is, like I said, 2nd to variety which comes first when it comes to anything Machine Learning-oriented, esp. if it's of the unsupervised type.

People that want to match solo tones from the middle of a song, however, probably are asking a bit much when it comes to this upcoming software, because those middle-of-the-song, guitar-solo tracks can sound like garbage when isolated, very often, because they have to be mixed "to the full mix," so yeah, even if it were a perfect match, if it sounds weird because it is a perfect match, people aren't going to like that, either.. so if you ask me, intro lead tones and isolated portions of rhythm guitars is probably going to be the limit of what this will be capable of accurately matching. If I'm wrong, I'll be blown away. Full mix stuff is just too much for anyone, AI-or-not to parse.

They're just making another competitor to existing stuff, don't expect a radically different approach or radically different capabilities. (Again, I love to be wrong!)

Tone matching is great when you have the multitrack of what you're trying to match! Past that, it's damn hard. But again, are we talking mix-match? or tone-match re: the equipment used and the approximation of those signal chains? Those are two very different things.


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## Jose7822 (Jul 30, 2022)

JSTube said:


> Looking forward to this, hopefully it can shut some of my Axe-FX and Kemper friends up (that might be the very cool surprise gift, perhaps?)



Can we please stop this tribalism that always exist amongst guitar players? Tubes vs Digital, Kemper vs Axe, etc, etc. It’s completely unnecessary and irrelevant. I own real amps, have Kempers, use amp simulators to track, and I still look forward to what this software can do. Let’s just look forward to more information and demonstrations about this software from IK Multimedia without the bashing, yes? 👍


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## Daniel James (Jul 30, 2022)

If its any consolation lads, my guitar sounds shit through anything. Trying to find a way to contextualize that rather than fight it 😂 Maybe this AI is the key! 

-DJ


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## MartinH. (Jul 30, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> If its any consolation lads, my guitar sounds shit through anything.


I sense a fantastic challenge coming: "Make DJ's guitar sound great again!". 
You record some heavy riffs, post the DI and maybe even a backing track, and people can mix the hell out of it with their own plugins or gear. And if you like one of the results, then theoretically this tool could be used to capture the whole signalchain for you, so that you can use that sound too.


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## Dylanguitar (Jul 31, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I use a Boss Katana Head and Cab as my out of the box amp. Who wants to fight me? 🤘🏻


I like the Katana.


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## Hendrixon (Aug 1, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> The way you are describing the knob/switch component modeling sounds very interesting, and I know the Kemper has a similar feature, but from what I can tell this is not going to be a part of the IK offering?


Profiling can't model knob movements as its a snapshot of a single setup.
Any EQ knobs giving in profiling based amps are nothing more than post eq, like outboard.
In analog tone stacks circuits each band influences the adjacent bands (above and bellow), there is no way to "profile capture" this behavior... theoretically there is, but no one will do it as each single amp will need to be as big as a Seventh Heaven reverb.


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## IKMultimedia (Aug 1, 2022)

Just to clarify some posts I see here, from the AI Machine Modeling page:

"Use our special guitar/bass capture track to record the sound of any rig..."


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## MartinH. (Aug 1, 2022)

IKMultimedia said:


> Just to clarify some posts I see here, from the AI Machine Modeling page:
> 
> "Use our special guitar/bass capture track to record the sound of any rig..."


That's what I thought. Could you please also clarify these previous questions:
Will this need iLok? And how easy will it be to share profiles between users?


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## IKMultimedia (Aug 1, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> That's what I thought. Could you please also clarify these previous questions:
> Will this need iLok? And how easy will it be to share profiles between users?


No, we don't use iLok or any USB key protection. As far as features that are not elaborated on the AI Machine Modeling page, I'm not allowed to discuss certain things but you can sign up there to be among the first to know things about (and try) AI Machine Modeling


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## TonalDynamics (Aug 2, 2022)

Hendrixon said:


> Profiling can't model knob movements as its a snapshot of a single setup.
> Any EQ knobs giving in profiling based amps are nothing more than post eq, like outboard.
> In analog tone stacks circuits each band influences the adjacent bands (above and bellow), there is no way to "profile capture" this behavior... theoretically there is, but no one will do it as each single amp will need to be as big as a Seventh Heaven reverb.


Right, I was thinking something along those lines but nice to hear the technical details layed out like that.

So yeah, the high-value 'secret sauce' remains strong with full amp head modeling still.

Cheers


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## IKMultimedia (Aug 3, 2022)




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## MartinH. (Aug 3, 2022)

IKMultimedia said:


>



Can this capture the delay as well or was the delay added to both the real amp and the AI modeled track after the fact?


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