# So.. Is it time to move up to Windows 10 ?



## muziksculp (May 1, 2016)

Hi,

I'm still using Windows 8.1, and was wondering if I should move up to Windows 10 ? 

So.. If you are using Windows 10, on your DAW-PC. , how is it going so far ? How do you like working in W10, and are all your applications, VSTs, DAWs, ...etc. working fine ?

Any feedback on this would be helpful.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## chimuelo (May 1, 2016)

You risk driver issues and gain nothing except cloud.
For home internet stuff I am sure that's great.
Personally I went and installed Windows 7 on all DAWs.
I ended up with a super fast Z170 & Windows 10 for archiving and downloading media.
3 x DAWs will never go online and W7 has added new tweaks and NVMe.
After suckered billions from us Sheep...


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## jamwerks (May 2, 2016)

I just moved 3 computers from 8.1 to 10, for free. No problems here. Things seem a bit faster also!


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## C.R. Rivera (May 2, 2016)

Also check the support sked for Windows 8.1 on their site. After I just upgraded 10.0? to the really big update to Windows 10.1? about a month ago, it seems I have to reauthorize Omnisphere and CCC, but no real problems detected at the moment.


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## JohnG (May 2, 2016)

Windows 10 is fine here but...

...the ONLY reason I updated is that I had some problems with earlier OS releases on my PCs -- one installation was corrupt and gave endless headaches, one couldn't load all my software etc. Plus, I wanted to update Kontakt, which didn't allow me to stay with -- Vista!!

Otherwise, I agree with chimuelo. Why install the most intrusive piece of software ever seen if you don't have to?


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## kitekrazy (May 3, 2016)

I'm going to image my W7 systems and install 10 while it's still free, register it in the MS Cloud and revert back if needed. I didn't have any driver issues on an older W7 machine. W10 used all of the M-Audio W7 drivers.

Odd that the W7 OEM is still for sale at reputable places. It looks like W7 isn't going to go away.


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## muziksculp (May 3, 2016)

kitekrazy said:


> I'm going to image my W7 systems and install 10 while it's still free, register it in the MS Cloud and revert back if needed. I didn't have any driver issues on an older W7 machine. W10 used all of the M-Audio W7 drivers.
> 
> Odd that the W7 OEM is still for sale at reputable places. It looks like W7 isn't going to go away.



Are you installing Windows 10 Pro ? or Home Edition ? 

I read that W10-Pro edition is better for driver compatibility, and other customization features.


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## dgburns (May 3, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> I just moved 3 computers from 8.1 to 10, for free. No problems here. Things seem a bit faster also!



seconded

and rather preferring the look/feel of 10 to boot.Now how do I get rid of Cortana?


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## Audio Birdi (May 3, 2016)

I've got mostly everything working, I'm having an issue with VEP under windows 10 though, it seems to hang and freeze after loading all my samples up. It plays and stays connected to Reaper / Cubase / Logic after all the samples have loaded. but VEP itself has the spinning wheel and hangs, so I can't edit my template if needed. I tried it out when Windows 10 was released... went back to 7 after finding out this issue, and then tried it again just now, resulting in the same issue as before :/. Has anybody else experienced this at all?

Cheers


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## muziksculp (May 3, 2016)

KaBirdi said:


> I've got mostly everything working, I'm having an issue with VEP under windows 10 though, it seems to hang and freeze after loading all my samples up. It plays and stays connected to Reaper / Cubase / Logic after all the samples have loaded. but VEP itself has the spinning wheel and hangs, so I can't edit my template if needed. I tried it out when Windows 10 was released... went back to 7 after finding out this issue, and then tried it again just now, resulting in the same issue as before :/. Has anybody else experienced this at all?
> 
> Cheers



Are you using the latest version of VE-Pro 5 ?


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## shangsean (May 3, 2016)

Have people just done the update from 8.1 or a clean install? I've always done a clean install in the past, but I can't be bothered going through it all at the moment. So after the update, your plugins are generally staying authorized?

I have W10 on my HP Spectre 360 and really like it. I don't do a lot of music production on it, but what I have done has been problem free so far.


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## altoids (May 3, 2016)

yea W10 is solid. and its honestly more annoying NOT to have it at this point


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## muziksculp (May 3, 2016)

altoids said:


> yea W10 is solid. and its honestly more annoying NOT to have it at this point



Thanks for the feedback. 

Could you elaborate on this a bit further ?


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## Audio Birdi (May 4, 2016)

muziksculp said:


> Are you using the latest version of VE-Pro 5 ?


Yep, latest version of VE Pro 5, PLAY and Cubase / Reaper / Logic (I use Reaper but testing with other DAWs too.) I've put PLAY / VEP into "compatibility mode" and set it to Windows 7. Seeing if this makes any difference. Shall give an update to say if anything has improved!


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## PeterKorcek (May 4, 2016)

I think it is fine, I moved 2 months ago, and so far did not have any issues - Win 10, Cubase 8.5.15, Omnisphere, NI Komplete, et cetera.


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## Rob Elliott (May 4, 2016)

I see nothing in W10 to make me switch to it. W7 is working PERFECT on all machines. Of course 'eventually' will make the move but I am not sure I EVER remember an OS as stable as W7. Love features of course but nothing trumps turning on the machines and being able to deliver to clients.


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## Ashermusic (May 4, 2016)

Rob Elliott said:


> I see nothing in W10 to make me switch to it. W7 is working PERFECT on all machines. Of course 'eventually' will make the move but I am not sure I EVER remember an OS as stable as W7. Love features of course but nothing trumps turning on the machines and being able to deliver to clients.




A big +1 Rob.


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## kitekrazy (May 4, 2016)

muziksculp said:


> Are you installing Windows 10 Pro ? or Home Edition ?
> 
> I read that W10-Pro edition is better for driver compatibility, and other customization features.



I have Pro. I did an in place upgrade so W10 could use the previous drivers. I'd be afraid to do a clean install on a system full of legacy devices.


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## kitekrazy (May 4, 2016)

Rob Elliott said:


> I see nothing in W10 to make me switch to it. W7 is working PERFECT on all machines. Of course 'eventually' will make the move but I am not sure I EVER remember an OS as stable as W7. Love features of course but nothing trumps turning on the machines and being able to deliver to clients.



You could eventually run into problems if software developers decide not to support Windows 7 anymore. I imagine one of the reason why MS can't stick with an OS for so long is they would run out of activation keys. That was their fear with XP. Now they do the cloud thing. Too bad they didn't think of that with W7.


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## kitekrazy (May 4, 2016)

dgburns said:


> seconded
> 
> and rather preferring the look/feel of 10 to boot.Now how do I get rid of Cortana?



Google it. I got rid of it and another annoying thing in the taskbar. I can't remember what I did.


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## Reegs (May 4, 2016)

Rob Elliott said:


> Of course 'eventually' will make the move


Just an FYI for all, Microsoft is saying their "Get W10 for Free!" upgrade period expires on July 29.

I write this from my Windows 7 system.


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## phil_wc (May 5, 2016)

I used Win10 for a while and then decided to back to Win8.1. Win10 is actually really good in their workflow and UI, but I got some small problems which is annoying when I work. I had driver problem with UR22MKii which audio cut out often, and UVI workstation not working well on Win10. Everything else is fine to me. You can try but backup your current Windows first.


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## chimuelo (May 5, 2016)

Everything is free.
But the information they take from you they sell.
Bypassing the ISP.
They lose and so do you.

They should pay me to use their cached to RAM Scam.


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## Øivind (May 6, 2016)

Win10 is rock solid for me, and has been so since launch on both my rigs. Try it out, you have 30 days worth of rollback time (in the settings menu) to your previous Windows version (7 or 8.1) after upgrading to Win10.


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## Phryq (May 7, 2016)

Windows 7 is the best. I'm staying away from 10 as long as possible, though eventually they'll force people to use it because of the new Skylake architecture.

If only Reaper and Sibelius worked on Linux...


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## EvilDragon (May 7, 2016)

Reaper does seem to work on Linux... Cockos is slowly but surely getting there

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=85588&page=9

Sibelius, on the other hand, probably never will go to Linux. I suppose your only choice there is MuseScore.

There's still lots of plugins that will probably never exist on Linux either, so as far as I'm concerned, music making on Linux is definitely not an easy going thing, especially if you have lots of plugins that you've gotten used to and/or can't do music without.

That said, W10 is a very nice upgrade from W7, performance boosts across the board, and soon enough there will be hardware that simply won't be compatible with W7, so...


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## EvilDragon (May 7, 2016)

You can stop multiposting now. :D


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## kevinlee87 (May 7, 2016)

EvilDragon is the best.


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## Phryq (May 7, 2016)

Wow, my computer was sucking and I was sitting here clicking send over and over "why won't this send!!?"

Anyhow, if Reaper gets some good notation, all I use is Reaper Kontakt and a couple verbs. Maybe Linux is possible!


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## novaburst (May 7, 2016)

Rob Elliott said:


> I see nothing in W10 to make me switch to it. W7 is working PERFECT on all machines. Of course 'eventually' will make the move but I am not sure I EVER remember an OS as stable as W7. Love features of course but nothing trumps turning on the machines and being able to deliver to clients.



Bigger plus here too +1


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## EvilDragon (May 7, 2016)

Phryq said:


> Anyhow, if Reaper gets some good notation, all I use is Reaper Kontakt and a couple verbs. Maybe Linux is possible!



Kontakt on Linux via Wine? I think that's asking for trouble... In any case there will be performance hits using that, so you very likely won't be able to stream as many voices as you would on Windows.


(BTW Reaper's notation is shaping up nicely...)


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## olajideparis (May 7, 2016)

I am still on 7. I have heard good things about 10 for the most part, though the idea of forced updates doesn't make me happy. That being said, be sure that all your hardware has Windows 10 drivers available before making the leap and you ought to be okay.


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## EvilDragon (May 7, 2016)

Forced updates only in Home version. In Pro version you can defer updates, and if you connect to internet via WiFi, you can set it as metered connection and then no updates will ever be downloaded (until you connect via LAN or the likes) - this latter option is valid in Home as well. Both very feasible options for a home/project studio owner.


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## chimuelo (May 7, 2016)

Windows 10 is really cool for home use. Don't mind good security in exchange for dumping my RAM ID's over the ISP.

Microsoft is starting to feel the lack of happy customers though.
Decided to support Windows 7 and Kaby Lake into 2017.

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-reprieve-will-support-windows-7-through-2017

Too late.
I have all 6 DAWs with parts to last me for years.
3 DAWs are operational and all older mature parts that I run with AIO Hydro at 4.4.
All Supermicro.

Other 3 DAWs are built, tested, then boxed up.
I have a 4 year contract that is really a relief as I have been a free agent mercenary.
Great money but I need a schedule.

I can have a DAW burn up once a year and still have one new with a spare.

I like my odds.


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## Phryq (May 8, 2016)

So will Windows 10 actually make better use of the newer CPUs? If I buy a new computer, is the performance going to be better on 10 or 7. If it's equal, I'd rather stay with 7 for the sake of privacy.


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## chimuelo (May 8, 2016)

Well I sure dont see any diffetence.
Intel just keeps churning out silicon that doesnt scale up much since the i7 2500k IMHO.
Thier chipsets and GFX have scaled nicely.

Micro$oft is basically telling Intel to fall in line with the cloud. They dont like spending time on pre cloud CPUs unless like we see with Kaby Lake a lack of interest.

They claim 10% performance boost.
I have heard this for years now.
AMD needs to gove us a 24mb L3 cache CPU.

Intel will have to step up thier game.


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## EvilDragon (May 9, 2016)

CPUs have nothing to do with "the cloud".


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## kitekrazy (May 9, 2016)

If you want your free Windows 10, make an image of 7, upgrade to 10, make an image and flip flop if necessary. Windows 10 is going to be an expensive OS. Full version Pro = $199. IF you go the OEM route you will have to buy a new license every time you upgrade a board or CPU.


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## chimuelo (May 9, 2016)

CPUs have nothing to do with the cloud.
But Microsoft will stop supporting CPUs pre Skylake very soon.
My guess is Intel is churning out many more CPUs and Microsoft can choose the path and Intel will follow.

Planned obsolescence...


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## EvilDragon (May 10, 2016)

Where's your source on this info?

MS has always been about backwards compatibility (Apple is about planned obsolence, not MS). Even on W10 I can still run 20 years old programs, and it still works on older CPUs just as well.


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## Ryan (May 10, 2016)

Win 10 Enterprise for one year now. No problems. Best I've used so far!


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## Phryq (May 10, 2016)

The idea is that Microsoft won't support Windows 7 on newer CPUs; that's what I read.

E.G. if you want Kabby Lake, Windows 7 won't get security updates.


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## EvilDragon (May 10, 2016)

Which is perfectly fine if you're not using Windows Defender but some other security suite. Or if you keep your DAW offline (many still do).


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## Phryq (May 11, 2016)

You mean if you use Avast for example, the updates aren't needed? Isn't a vulnerability still a vulnerability?

I'm thinking I might do that; Windows for the Daw and only Linux inside VirtualBox can touch the internet, but then there are many inconveniences.


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## Mystic (May 11, 2016)

Windows 10 here since Day 1. No issues at all. If you're going to update though, do it soon because the free update ends July 29th.

Windows mainstream support for 7 is over. Extended support will go on till 2020 but may run into issues with future hardware depending on what hardware companies do.

Something like Avast will only protect you from viruses and backdoors that aren't native to the OS. As more security issues are found inside the OS code itself (which happens all the time across the board) those need to be patched by the company that makes the OS themselves as it's not something that can be detected by a virus scanner. Firewalls can help prevent it but it won't completely remove the risk as they are easily gotten around if you know what you're doing.


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## Phryq (May 11, 2016)

I know this will never happen, but I wish Microsoft would just release the source code for Windows 7 and it could become an open source OS.


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## rgames (May 11, 2016)

I would still be on Win7 if I hadn't moved over to a new machine last Summer. I tried Win7 and Win10 on the new machine (laptop) and found *slightly* better performance with Win7 but not enough to make a practical difference. So I went with 10. I do like the flat look more than the Win7 look.

After nearly a year, I do find Win10 to be less stable but I can't be sure if that's because I'm now on a laptop running full orchestral mock-ups. I was previously on a master+slave desktop system under Win7, so it's not a direct comparison.

The only thing I can say for certain is that the damn OS keeps resetting my default programs and that is a major pain. I assume this has to do with the automatic updates.

One thing that I haven't seen many people talk about is the supposedly new real-time capabilities of Win10 - as I recall it was going to enable some kind of multi-processor support for real-time processes (like buffer transfers to sound cards). That could have a huge impact on DAW performance. I remember seeing an audio-specific video when Win10 was launched that said they're working on implementing this in Win10. But I haven't heard anything since and I haven't seen any performance differences in all the updates my computer so dutifully installs. So I don't know what's up there. But it could be a big reason to switch to Win10.

Overall I would have preferred to stay with Win7 but, let's face it, the question is not *if* you're going to switch. It's *when*.

rgames


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## kitekrazy (May 12, 2016)

Did anyone find an improvement in latency or worse? I haven't gotten to the point of shutting down some things in W10 like Cortana and whatever but for an OS that supposedly can run on a 1ghz CPU there sure are a lot of processes running.


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## emanon (May 14, 2016)

The biggest perf-focus in the "Modern" era OS is, the power consumption aka the battery life. Real-time performance is put aside, as long as the system reacts nice to the human eyes.

To achieve better battery-perf, Windows 10 is tuned that the CPU sleeps longer and deeper, and when it has to wake and run, do it as fast as it can and go back to sleep as quickly as possible. The jobs are accumulated, coalesced and handled in a batch of a CPU wake. The problem is, deeper the sleep is, longer it takes to wake up and respond to events. Events include hardware interrupts, periodical wakes from timers, and so on. So in a sense Windows 10 is not as responsive as before.
Meanwhile, there have been micro optimizations in the OS and the drivers over time, so the latency shouldn't be as bad as it may seem.

Having that said, this is just a personal view, so take this with a grain of salt. 
[edited to make the point clearer]


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## chimuelo (May 18, 2016)

Well Windows 7 is getting lots of attention now that Windows 10 lovers helped fund 7s R & D costs.
So thanks guys.
Windows i has NVMe and I can view and select background processes.
Way too many in Windows 10.
In Windows 7 I have disabled 13 processes taking me down to 11 which may or may not be noticed.

But many thanks to Windows adopters.
Couldnt have fixed 7 without you.


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## EvilDragon (May 18, 2016)

Only till 2020, chim, only till 2020. 


BTW you could always adjust background processes in W7, even in XP, by using msconfig from Run...


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## chimuelo (May 18, 2016)

True and yes, I am finishing off 3 x Supermicro DAWs that will last until 2026. Or until I see an OS dedicated for audio.
These 3 DAWs will never be online and NVMe is all I need.
If anyone plans obsolescence it will be me.
UAD might become my next rig if they go the PC Way


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## Baron Greuner (May 18, 2016)

chimuelo said:


> UAD might become my next rig if they go the PC Way



Jimmy you can get the new Apollo Twin for Windows, if that's what you meant.


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## emanon (May 18, 2016)

My music PC is isolated, independent, and it's been frozen. I've set it up so it can only reach the in-house LAN, but not any outer places. Not directly exposed to attacks from nowhere, it's configured to not do Windows Update since Win7 SP1. 
In this sense, 2020 end of W7 support wouldn't directly change things much here. Although, the support from vendors may change eventually, which is a true concern. Some new software, or updates to existing ones, may start dropping the Windows 7 support slowly. Not sure how soon it will be, but there will be time when I have to decide whether to give up new software and the updates, or to give up Windows 7 completely. 
But until that happens I plan to keep this Windows 7 PC the way it is now. Hopefully not too soon!


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## chimuelo (May 18, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> Jimmy you can get the new Apollo Twin for Windows, if that's what you meant.



Its about time.
I need to mess with one and see if the mixer and fx respond in real time.
I use a TC Fireworx that is incredible.
Phasers that drown you, No Quarter is spot on with PianoTeqs thick ass Rhodes.
Pitch shifter can go from a chorus on a lead synth then the 2 voices go up and down an octave leaving the middle equal in terms of level, and this sounds like Emersons synth on the end of back to the beginning.
So yes, my stable rigs have big shoes to fill.

Oh almost forgot about the Ring Modulator covering Zawinuls chops on Barbary Coast.

I tried Windows 10 on the three latest builds.
Hated the experience.
In 4 years I can upgrade for free since I bought a 3 pack from Newegg.

Life sucks when my rigs tell me to "Wait, let us help you fix this problem we found."
Forgeddabowdit....


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