# VSL Synchron Strings I Announced (Nov. Release)



## muziksculp

Hi,

I just noticed that *VSL Synchron Strings I *have been announced for release in November.
*
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/News/2017-10_Early_Bird_Offer*

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Mihkel Zilmer

There's a couple of very interesting new features mentioned on the product page. A new sample player, improved playability with "_minimal need to switch articulations_". 

And it looks like fast legato has 6 RR - I'm hoping this will allow to write realistic, flowing repeating legato ostinato lines. Various string libraries have tried with different degrees of success, but no-one has really nailed it so far in my opinion...


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## C-Wave

Last frame of the demo video says that Sychron Strings I is Violins and Cellos?! So this is the first half of Synchron Strings?


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## muziksculp

Yes, their new *Synchron Player* should be very interesting. No details about it, and no GUI posted yet, I'm guessing they will post more info. as we get closer to the release date, and hopefully some audio demos. I also wonder how large are the Standard, and Full versions of the Sychron Strings I. Don't see that info. yet.


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## Mihkel Zilmer

C-Wave said:


> Last frame of the demo video says that Sychron Strings I is Violins and Cellos?! So this is the first half of Synchron Strings?



Product description says "_1st Violins, 2nd Violins, Violas, Cellos, Basses, recorded at their designated places on stage_". So I am guessing this current demo is just an early preview and full section demos are coming later.


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## muziksculp

C-Wave said:


> Last frame of the demo video says that Sychron Strings I is Violins and Cellos?! So this is the first half of Synchron Strings?



I guess that means the demo was produced using Synchron Violins, Cellos, and Perc. I

Hopefully all the Strings Sections will be completed next month for release of Synchron Strings I


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## C-Wave

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> Product description says "_1st Violins, 2nd Violins, Violas, Cellos, Basses, recorded at their designated places on stage_". So I am guessing this current demo is just an early preview and full section demos are coming later.


Look carefully at that last frame:
“Synchron Strings I (Violins and Cellos)”
I hope I’m mistaken.


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## Mihkel Zilmer

C-Wave said:


> Look carefully at that last frame:
> “Synchron Strings I (Violins and Cellos)”
> I hope I’m mistaken.



I saw it. To me it reads like a list of the instruments they used - only Violins and Celli, along with Synchron Percussion.


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## muziksculp

C-Wave said:


> Look carefully at that last frame:
> “Synchron Strings I (Violins and Cellos)”
> I hope I’m mistaken.


 
It says 'Played by' which means the demo used only Violins and Cellos plus Perc. I , all form their new Synchron line, this does not mean that Synchron Strings I = Violin and Cellos, but rather as the product description indicated, it contains the entire strings family.

Maybe they will have the Violas, and Basses ready later this month, or in Nov. , that's why they are not releasing it in October.


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## C-Wave

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> I saw it. To me it reads like a list of the instruments they used - only Violins and Celli, along with Synchron Percussion.


Good to hear..phew! it would have been a bummer, they have a precedence with Orchestral Strings I and II.


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## muziksculp

Also nice to see them offer First and Second Violin Sections this time around !


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## Rob Elliott

Hey don't get me wrong - VSL really started it all years ago with their first string library and my hopes that this pans out. But I am cautiously optimistic. Often I don't use VSL NOW because I don't have 'enough time' on projects. Hopeful that the new player is more 'player' centric. (Less puzzle piecing a track/cue together - a real creative black hole.) Also there has to be a better way to seamlessly have vibrato introduce and controlled. Recent live string session REMINDED me of this fact. Vibrato is rarely stagnate (a tell-tale sign of a 'mock-up' to me.)


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## holywilly

Probably the Synchron Strings II comes with the con sordino.

Can't wait to hands on this new breed of sampled strings!


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## noxtenebrae17

Looking forward to hearing how this turns out. Fingers crossed!


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## muziksculp

It would also be interesting to see how the new *Sychron Player* works with *VSL Synchron Perc. I *


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## Rob Elliott

Just noticed this on their site ("very soon" -- could be months if not longer). To me that would be KEY. I guess I'll no EARLY BIRD. 

_Very soon, Synchron Strings I will be powered by the all-new Vienna Synchron Player_


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## muziksculp

I'm hoping that the Synchron Player will be out at the same time Sych. Strings I are out.


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## C-Wave

muziksculp said:


> I'm hoping that the Synchron Player will be out at the same time Sych. Strings I are out.


+1.. any chance of having it NKS you think?
By the way I am bringing my VSL Strings libraries to -40% off if someone is interested. Need to save for this one


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## Lotias

I wonder why non-vib and vib variations for legato are not listed, or portamento - also noticed that col legno was not listed either, which is disappointing, I like my col legnos. Curious if the Synchron Player will work as such that non-vib and vib versions of performance legatos are not needed.

EDIT:
The page mentions "scalable vibrato intensities" so I guess that is the case.


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## constaneum

So far sounds good for the tremelos, sustains and shorts. Not sure on the legato. The setup size seems to be like Berlin String's ?


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## novaburst

VSL pushing the bar yet higher, up to 80 variations per key now that's insane.


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## C-Wave

constaneum said:


> So far sounds good for the tremelos, sustains and shorts. Not sure on the legato. The setup size seems to be like Berlin String's ?


Berlin Strings is 28 players.. this one is 46 players.


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## C-Wave

novaburst said:


> VSL pushing the bar yet higher, up to 80 variations per key now that's insane.


I except something like 400 plus GB for the standard version. Similar to Synchron Percussion I.


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## constaneum

C-Wave said:


> Berlin Strings is 28 players.. this one is 46 players.



oh my bad. thought i've seen such size in one of the strings libraries by other competitors before.


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## Lotias

constaneum said:


> oh my bad. thought i've seen such size in one of the strings libraries by other competitors before.


I mean, they're pretty standard section sizes.


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## kimarnesen

Would be nice to hear a demo before buying it. 

And it’s crucial to know how well it will work with my other libraries which are not Vienna.

The list of articulations are quite short, will there be more?

Short notes
Long notes – with vibrato
Long notes – no vibrato
Long notes – portato
Long notes – lyrical
Sforzando
Sforzando - crescendo
Legato – regular
Legato – slurred
Legato – fast
Tremolos
Trills – half-tone
Trills – whole-tone
Pizzicato
Snap pizzicato
Releases damped 
Releases ringing


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## C-Wave

kimarnesen said:


> Would be nice to hear a demo before buying it.
> 
> And it’s crucial to know how well it will work with my other libraries which are not Vienna.
> 
> The list of articulations are quite short, will there be more?
> 
> Short notes
> Long notes – with vibrato
> Long notes – no vibrato
> Long notes – portato
> Long notes – lyrical
> Sforzando
> Sforzando - crescendo
> Legato – regular
> Legato – slurred
> Legato – fast
> Tremolos
> Trills – half-tone
> Trills – whole-tone
> Pizzicato
> Snap pizzicato
> Releases damped
> Releases ringing


+1..


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## leon chevalier

I don't really like the sound of the sustained notes in the demo. But I'll wait for the final demos before making my mind. 
Anyway, still hyped by a wet strings lib from vsl !


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## jamwerks

Man this is the most exciting news in years! A bit surprised by only 8 violas and that the double basses aren't centered. Love the multiple layers and variations (5 for pizz!). Coupled with a new sampler and wow! And the price isn't excessive.


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## C-Wave

jamwerks said:


> Man this is the most exciting news in years! A bit surprised by only 8 violas and that the double basses aren't centered. Love the multiple layers and variations (5 for pizz!). Coupled with a new sampler and wow! And the price isn't excessive.


yeah.. wish they had 2 more second Violins and 2 more violas. Ah well.


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## dhlkid

Looking forward to this one....

Chamber Strings 1 is the only VSL strings I am still using everyday....


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## Rob

C-Wave said:


> Look carefully at that last frame:
> “Synchron Strings I (Violins and Cellos)”
> I hope I’m mistaken.



That's also how I read it... sort of like their Orchestral Strings are now sold as OS1, violins and violas, and OS2, cellos and basses.


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## zeng

What will be the difference between standart and full libraries? If it is the articulations, are these in standart or full?

Short notes
Long notes – with vibrato
Long notes – no vibrato
Long notes – portato
Long notes – lyrical
Sforzando
Sforzando - crescendo
Legato – regular
Legato – slurred
Legato – fast
Tremolos
Trills – half-tone
Trills – whole-tone
Pizzicato
Snap pizzicato
Releases damped 
Releases ringing


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## dhlkid

zeng said:


> What will be the difference between standart and full libraries? If it is the articulations, are these in standart or full?
> 
> Short notes
> Long notes – with vibrato
> Long notes – no vibrato
> Long notes – portato
> Long notes – lyrical
> Sforzando
> Sforzando - crescendo
> Legato – regular
> Legato – slurred
> Legato – fast
> Tremolos
> Trills – half-tone
> Trills – whole-tone
> Pizzicato
> Snap pizzicato
> Releases damped
> Releases ringing


Just extra microphone position


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## kimarnesen

zeng said:


> What will be the difference between standart and full libraries? If it is the articulations, are these in standart or full?
> 
> Short notes
> Long notes – with vibrato
> Long notes – no vibrato
> Long notes – portato
> Long notes – lyrical
> Sforzando
> Sforzando - crescendo
> Legato – regular
> Legato – slurred
> Legato – fast
> Tremolos
> Trills – half-tone
> Trills – whole-tone
> Pizzicato
> Snap pizzicato
> Releases damped
> Releases ringing



They write: 
“The difference lies in the number of provided microphone positions”

So it means no spiccato, harmonics, Col Legno, etc?


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## jamwerks

They've probably got all the possible short notes covered (including spiccato) here, with extended arts coming in a future extension.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

Well, this is looking huge. There seems to be a lot going on under the hood. That Synchron Player is fantastic news as well.

Really looking forward to actual demos. The sound in the trailer perhaps won't excite everyone, as the prefered idea of "strings" today often seems to be warm, broad, "lush", mushy. But this to me sounds firm, clear, upfront, crisp - as it should be. Really really interested.


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## Paul T McGraw

I am thrilled! Wow, exactly what I most wanted next from VSL. Eight velocity layers!?!? And the RRs!?!?! If they really have managed to continue the VSL tradition of volume, articulation and instrument consistency, this will be a game changer for the entire industry. And the price is insanely reasonable. I just paid like something like $800 for Spitfire Symphonic Strings. I am buying Synchron Strings today.


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## fiestared

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just noticed that *VSL Synchron Strings I *have been announced for release in November.
> *
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/News/2017-10_Early_Bird_Offer*
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


*The size of the library :*

427 GB available hard drive space for Full, 215 GB for Standard


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## muziksculp

fiestared said:


> *The size of the library :*
> 
> 427 GB available hard drive space for Full, 215 GB for Standard



Thanks for the info. 

I don't see this info. on VSL's Synchron Strings I product page. 

Where did you see this info. ?


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## clonewar

Rob said:


> That's also how I read it... sort of like their Orchestral Strings are now sold as OS1, violins and violas, and OS2, cellos and basses.



The last frame of the video is credits for the video.. It has 'Composed and Arranged By', 'Directed By', and 'Played By', which lists the instruments used in the music.


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## cadenzajon

Things that jump out at me from the announcement:

- "We’ve developed a new sampling process wherein all performances are recorded and edited at “fixed gain”. The result is that all pitches, dynamic layers, articulations and instruments match 100% perfectly with each other. For example, a pianissimo articulation of an ensemble sounds exactly as it was played at Synchron Stage and painstakingly matches the pianissimo performances of all the other instruments."

Balancing a wet template just got a million times easier. I've never understood why Spitfire and OT don't do this.

- "Legato – fast 8 velocity layers, 6 variations"

I know Berlin Strings includes an "Ostinato Legato" with legato RR transitions, but only in 1st Vlns and Celli. Having 6x legato RRs consistently across all the instruments is groundbreaking as far as any VI's I know of. Legato ostinatos have long been the achilles' heel of VI string libraries.

- Each of their long notes includes "10 variations".

This is slightly terrifying from the perspective of RAM utilization but they must have a good reason to have sampled this many. I'm very curious.

- "Our upcoming _Synchron Player_ will deliver unprecedented streaming performance, able to trigger more than 300 voices per instrument simultaneously!"

300 voices *per instrument* means there's an insane amount of sample blending going on, so I'm assuming the "articulation list" they're showing will be treated more like building blocks with crossfading happening (automatically and/or manually controlled) in all kinds of interesting directions.

- "8 velocity layers"

I'm hoping that this means what I think, and that it will give us a huge dynamic range up to really aggressive bowing. (Honestly I'm not hearing this in the intro video, but there's a lot being overpowered by the percussion.)


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## fiestared

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I don't see this info. on VSL's Synchron Strings I product page.
> 
> Where did you see this info. ?



On the Ilio site, under REVIEWS. https://www.ilio.com/products/vienna-instruments/strings/synchronstrings1


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## C-Wave

clonewar said:


> The last frame of the video is credits for the video.. It has 'Composed and Arranged By', 'Directed By', and 'Played By', which lists the instruments used in the music.


Yes i’m now inclined to think that this is just the demo.. hope it’s not just wishful thinking. But since they don’t have any of the harmonics or the Sordinos, that’s probably the space that Synchron Strings II will fill up.


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## Paul T McGraw

fiestared said:


> *The size of the library :*
> 
> 427 GB available hard drive space for Full, 215 GB for Standard



Now I have to decide which of my other string libraries to move from SSD to hard drive to make room for Synchron Strings. Or I could buy yet another SSD. I have 4 in my computer now, so maybe I should just offload another string library to HD.

My bigger worry is RAM. Will this library need oodles of RAM like OT stuff? I have 64GB but will that be enough? Will everyone be forced to use slaves?


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## muziksculp

It looks like using Slave PCs is a wise way to proceed if you plan to use a heavy dose of Synchron Libraries.


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## novaburst

There will be a lot to look forward to on these new librarys from VSL, brass, woodwinds, efnic Instruments, and I feel the one that many are waiting for the choir.

Some mouth watering library's to come from VSL and at a impeccable high standard.


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## Paul T McGraw

After strings, BRASS please. I love brass. MORE BRASS!


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## kimarnesen

As I’m mostly using Spitfire I’m a bit worried how useful this one would be when also this one is a wet library. Both the sound of Air and Synchron Stage. What do you think?


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## cadenzajon

kimarnesen said:


> As I’m mostly using Spitfire I’m a bit worried how useful this one would be when also this one is a wet library. Both the sound of Air and Synchron Stage. What do you think?



If you like the large ambiance of Air Studios and can live with the idiosyncracies of Spitfire's VIs (my greatest frustrations tend to be legato transitions in many of their instruments), then there's no reason to take on Synchron.

You'll probably find that the Synchron libraries are extremely consistently recorded, concentrate on very reliable performances of a limited set of articulations (compared to Spitfire which has lots of exotic patches), and have a more detailed, exposed sound with less wetness than you're used to (even the Spitfire close mics can be echoey).


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## kimarnesen

cadenzajon said:


> If you like the large ambiance of Air Studios and can live with the idiosyncracies of Spitfire's VIs (my greatest frustrations tend to be legato transitions in many of their instruments), then there's no reason to take on Synchron.
> 
> You'll probably find that the Synchron libraries are extremely consistently recorded, concentrate on very reliable performances of a limited set of articulations (compared to Spitfire which has lots of exotic patches), and have a more detailed, exposed sound with less wetness than you're used to (even the Spitfire close mics can be echoey).



My ideal sound is when it’s both lush and intimate so it might be a good combination. But just worried it will be difficult to give a sense of one room in the final mix.


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## cadenzajon

kimarnesen said:


> My ideal sound is when it’s both lush and intimate so it might be a good combination. But just worried it will be difficult to give a sense of one room in the final mix.


Spitfire can do intimate with their Chamber Strings quite nicely, so you don't necessarily have to switch horses to get that sound. I agree, you could end up fighting a bit to get samples from Air & Synchron to sound similar.


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## C-Wave

cadenzajon said:


> Spitfire can do intimate with their Chamber Strings quite nicely, so you don't necessarily have to switch horses to get that sound. I agree, you could end up fighting a bit to get samples from Air & Synchron to sound similar.


Spitfire are doing more dry libraries recorded in their new sound studio: LCO, BHCT.


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## ChristianM

What about divisi ? What about positions ?
What about bugs found by user ?
What about price of String 2, etc. ?


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## Lotias

Given that there is no portamento listed (and I had VSL support confirm that the slurred legato was not intended to be portamento, as well as the fact there is no col legno) I would assume that there will be a second library with further articulations, rather than muted articulations as they have done before.


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## paoling

cadenzajon said:


> - "We’ve developed a new sampling process wherein all performances are recorded and edited at “fixed gain”. The result is that all pitches, dynamic layers, articulations and instruments match 100% perfectly with each other. For example, a pianissimo articulation of an ensemble sounds exactly as it was played at Synchron Stage and painstakingly matches the pianissimo performances of all the other instruments."
> 
> Balancing a wet template just got a million times easier. I've never understood why Spitfire and OT don't do this.



Are you sure? Working with not normalized samples is nothing incredible nowadays. So even if Spitfire and OT don't publicly say "Samples not normalized", it's likely that they aren't normalized. To me that sentence from VSL sounds like they just changed their way of sampling and not this is an incredibly innovative idea. Considering the wetness of the library and the amount of dynamic layers, normalizing would have caused more problems than what it supposed to solve.


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## Lotias

paoling said:


> Are you sure? Working with not normalized samples is nothing incredible nowadays. So even if Spitfire and OT don't publicly say "Samples not normalized", it's likely that they aren't normalized. To me that sentence from VSL sounds like they just changed their way of sampling and not this is an incredibly innovative idea. Considering the wetness of the library and the amount of dynamic layers, normalizing would have caused more problems than what it supposed to solve.


I don't think that recording at fixed gain is the same as normalizing the samples. IIRC it would mean that they are recording all the instruments with the same gain on the microphone preamps - this is why the person you are replying to said that would make balancing templates much easier.


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## muziksculp

Lotias said:


> Given that there is no portamento listed (and I had VSL support confirm that the slurred legato was not intended to be portamento, as well as the fact there is no col legno) I would assume that there will be a second library with further articulations, rather than muted articulations as they have done before.



That might be what they plan to do, but since they have not confirmed, or said anything about this, we are just guessing.


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## Lotias

fiestared said:


> *The size of the library :*
> 
> 427 GB available hard drive space for Full, 215 GB for Standard


Those are the exact sizes for Synchron Percussion I, so that might not be correct.


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## muziksculp

Lotias said:


> Those are the exact sizes for Synchron Percussion I, so that might not be correct.



It's good you caught that. Yes, I don't think that is the right info. , hopefully VSL will post it when they have the figures. Plus, why would iLio have that info. published if VSL doesn't have it on their website, must be a mistake from iLio.


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## C-Wave

Lotias said:


> Those are the exact sizes for Synchron Percussion I, so that might not be correct.


Good Catch!


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## muziksculp

I'm really hoping that the upcoming Synchron Strings I will sound much more pleasing to my ears than their original Strings I and Strings II , which I don't think are very popular, although they are technically supposed to be the core/foundation of their silent stage based Orchestral Line. on the other hand, Their Chamber, Dimension, Solo and Appassionata Strings are more popular than their Strings I and II. 

I also wonder what they will release next, Brass, then Woodwinds ? or more Strings ? I would think that trying to have a core Synchron Orchestra would be the logical way to proceed, rather than working on more Strings once Synch. Strings I is released.


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## paoling

Lotias said:


> I don't think that recording at fixed gain is the same as normalizing the samples. IIRC it would mean that they are recording all the instruments with the same gain on the microphone preamps - this is why the person you are replying to said that would make balancing templates much easier.



Yes. It's actually the opposite of normalizing. But it seems like a normal pratice to me, something that I'm quite sure that Spitfire and OT libraries have.


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## cadenzajon

paoling said:


> But it seems like a normal pratice to me, something that I'm quite sure that Spitfire and OT libraries have.


Most libraries I run across are normalized even within a single instrument (i.e. playing a scale at a single dynamic on a flute renders an unnaturally consistent volume between the low and high register). Normalizing across multiple instruments is pretty much ubiquitous; otherwise, users would likely complain about their inability to play a VI harp and get much volume, not realizing it's balanced in the same acoustic space against the timpani from the same vendor.


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## ctsai89

Paul T McGraw said:


> After strings, BRASS please. I love brass. MORE BRASS!



Agreed!


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## ctsai89

Yea honestly I'm a bit dissapointed at the intro video as well. But I'm still having hopes up for this. Very very high hopes indeed despite my known hatred for Vsl's sounds. I really think they have great quality control but now if the hall would solve the "synthy" problem from their dry libraries that I'm hearing then I'm ready to hop on the band wagon


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## Lotias

ctsai89 said:


> Yea honestly I'm a bit dissapointed at the intro video as well. But I'm still having hopes up for this. Very very high hopes indeed despite my known hatred for Vsl's sounds. I really think they have great quality control but now if the hall would solve the "synthy" problem from their dry libraries that I'm hearing then I'm ready to hop on the band wagon


It's hard for me to form an opinion without hearing the library by itself, so I hope more demos are put up in the future.


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## Mihkel Zilmer

ctsai89 said:


> Yea honestly I'm a bit dissapointed at the intro video as well. But I'm still having hopes up for this. Very very high hopes indeed despite my known hatred for Vsl's sounds. I really think they have great quality control but now if the hall would solve the "synthy" problem from their dry libraries that I'm hearing then I'm ready to hop on the band wagon



I used a few VSL products years back and although I wouldn't call them "synthy", I did find that the some of the performances that they sampled sound a bit too tame, pristine, held back - because they are very consistent - which of course makes seamless transitions easier to pull off. While this approach might have the promise of "more control" over your samples, if you don't put a huge amount of work and love into your MIDI programming, the result will be pretty lifeless.

So I am hoping for two things - first that there is a little more emotion and intention in the performances in these upcoming strings, and secondly that the new sample player means more elaborate scripting to allow for flexible, expressive writing without needing to spend a long time putting together the puzzle from tiny pieces.

Synchron Percussion I was definitely a big step in the right direction and it has seen a lot of use from me since it came out.


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## ctsai89

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> I used a few VSL products years back and although I wouldn't call them "synthy", I did find that the some of the performances that they sampled sound a bit too tame, pristine, held back - because they are very consistent - which of course makes seamless transitions easier to pull off. While this approach might have the promise of "more control" over your samples, if you don't put a huge amount of work and love into your MIDI programming, the result will be pretty lifeless.
> 
> So I am hoping for two things - first that there is a little more emotion and intention in the performances in these upcoming strings, and secondly that the new sample player means more elaborate scripting to allow for flexible, expressive writing without needing to spend a long time putting together the puzzle from tiny pieces.
> 
> Synchron Percussion I was definitely a big step in the right direction and it has seen a lot of use from me since it came out.



anyways I just want to be positive this time with VSL. Hopefully synchron strings will blow my mind and I can't wait for it to do so. And hopefully the demo makers do better at presenting more rigorous and realistic takes in their midi programming.


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## NoamL

paoling said:


> Yes. It's actually the opposite of normalizing. But it seems like a normal pratice to me, something that I'm quite sure that Spitfire and OT libraries have.



Yes every developer aims to achieve, and claims to have achieved, a balanced out of the box orchestra. It is hard to achieve considering the many asynchronous recording sessions! All the developers have done a decent job with it even EW back in the day. But there will always be bumps.

I agree entirely with Mikhel. The short demo sounds very precise and controlled but doesn't feel like it's got much musicianship. And exactly the word you mentioned - intention! A performance without a feeling of intention will sound like Midi no matter how great the samples are. With strings especially (if I can be chauvinist about strings for a second) the expression is such a totally other dimension than articulation or dynamic selection. And that means, under the current Midi and Kontakt paradigms... Musicianship and Expression is either captured in the rec sessions or it's not. Just play a note and move no controllers at all and ask yourself does the note sound intentional? There are great libraries for this test and terrible ones. Imo it is one of the great strengths of CSS. And the quest of 8dio to record "performance arcs" in their libraries, realizing the only way to capture all the nuances of an intensifying expression is to actually record it.

I'm sure, if mocking up this demo with those libraries, I would run into all kinds of bumps. But the overall feel would be musical. Felt the same way about the perc library, it sounded so pristine but yet I wasn't inspired to buy especially at that price. What can I say, I love my current strings but I'm curious to hear more demos... VSL have always been pioneers.... and this post is NOT intended to slam the door on this library!!


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## jamwerks

Their old silent stage libraries had problems imo because of the small size. That was the thinking 15 years ago when they built it. Higher sound levels became "closet" sounding because of the high level of early reflections in the signal.

Syncron sounds fantastic to my ears and should result in very different sounding libraries. No doubt they tested many places for a long time before going the Syncron route. To my ears it has a little of the magic of Air studios, but dryer, so much more manageable for us. And sounds a little better than Telex also.

And with the combo of great libraries with their own sampler + VEP could even make me worry a bit for the other devs. The competition just got a lot stiffer for everyone!


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## novaburst

ctsai89 said:


> if the hall would solve the "synthy" problem from their dry libraries that I'm hearing


I don't feel this will ever happen in your case being allergic to something is not easily solved, searching for faults is easily done and most of the time gives you a bad impression on a person no matter what they do its always going to be wrong, you see what no one else sees, or hear what no one else hears and most of the time what you see or hear is just not there.

I my self have negative views on a few library's and it doesn't matter what people say I just want purchase them, the strange thing is I have heard users of that library do some great demos and mockups with the very same library.


ctsai89 said:


> Hopefully synchron strings will blow my mind and I can't wait for it to do so.


This is setting your self up for failure, it's like saying I hope they do it the way I like it and I will be satisfied.

VSL are not developing library's with you in mind or me in mind for that matter, 

They are developing with a standard in mind weather you or me like it or not the standard of VSL goes way beyond me and reaches out to high level composers, who understand how to use VSL library's and also appreciate the level of understanding that VSL has in creating library's, and are also willing to pay the price for Thier library's as you know VSL are not cheap to purchase.

VSL library's are obtainable but I am not going to fool my self, I know that these library's are for composers with a very high level of orchestral understanding and a very high level of playability using VSL software.

I feel VSL is just not for everyone, and I know they are not developing library's for everyone.


----------



## Lotias

NoamL said:


> Yes every developer aims to achieve, and claims to have achieved, a balanced out of the box orchestra. It is hard to achieve considering the many asynchronous recording sessions! All the developers have done a decent job with it even EW back in the day. But there will always be bumps.
> 
> I agree entirely with Mikhel. The short demo sounds very precise and controlled but doesn't feel like it's got much musicianship. And exactly the word you mentioned - intention! A performance without a feeling of intention will sound like Midi no matter how great the samples are. With strings especially (if I can be chauvinist about strings for a second) the expression is such a totally other dimension than articulation or dynamic selection. And that means, under the current Midi and Kontakt paradigms... Musicianship and Expression is either captured in the rec sessions or it's not. Just play a note and move no controllers at all and ask yourself does the note sound intentional? There are great libraries for this test and terrible ones. Imo it is one of the great strengths of CSS. And the quest of 8dio to record "performance arcs" in their libraries, realizing the only way to capture all the nuances of an intensifying expression is to actually record it.
> 
> I'm sure, if mocking up this demo with those libraries, I would run into all kinds of bumps. But the overall feel would be musical. Felt the same way about the perc library, it sounded so pristine but yet I wasn't inspired to buy especially at that price. What can I say, I love my current strings but I'm curious to hear more demos... VSL have always been pioneers.... and this post is NOT intended to slam the door on this library!!


I've always found that given control over dynamics & vibrato, I can reach more satisfying results than recording an intended performance (I find it more satisfying because I can shape it to the phrase I desire, which is far more useful to me). I like to work for that musical feeling - if I can't reach it, I think that there might be a problem with the music I'm trying to compose in the first place. Plus I'm not sure how much passion & musical intention can go into a large majority of percussion samples - I have heard incredibly unique/inspiring music done with purely Synchron Percussion I that I haven't heard from other percussion libraries.

One thing to note about Synchron Strings I is one of the listed articulations.


> Long notes – lyrical 4 velocity layers, 10 variations


"Lyrical" is not a word that VSL usually uses to describe an articulation; it's always "vibrato, non-vibrato, progressive vibrato" or something else technical that describes exactly what the performance is. I imagine that this describes a note with musical intention recorded; this is only speculation, though.


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## fiestared

Lotias said:


> I've always found that given control over dynamics & vibrato, I can reach more satisfying results than recording an intended performance (I find it more satisfying because I can shape it to the phrase I desire, which is far more useful to me). I like to work for that musical feeling - if I can't reach it, I think that there might be a problem with the music I'm trying to compose in the first place. Plus I'm not sure how much passion & musical intention can go into a large majority of percussion samples - I have heard incredibly unique/inspiring music done with purely Synchron Percussion I that I haven't heard from other percussion libraries.
> 
> One thing to note about Synchron Strings I is one of the listed articulations.
> 
> "Lyrical" is not a word that VSL usually uses to describe an articulation; it's always "vibrato, non-vibrato, progressive vibrato" or something else technical that describes exactly what the performance is. I imagine that this describes a note with musical intention recorded; this is only speculation, though.


Absolutely !


----------



## kimarnesen

cadenzajon said:


> Spitfire can do intimate with their Chamber Strings quite nicely, so you don't necessarily have to switch horses to get that sound. I agree, you could end up fighting a bit to get samples from Air & Synchron to sound similar.



To judge the library based on the trailer is impossible as it has more drums than Strings, so they should really make some STRING demos soon so that it’s possible to like it or not and consider to buy it.


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## MarcelM

i think a video walkthrough should be todays standard. even if there would be more demos you couldnt really judge the sound since most of the demos today are processed anyway.

i mean look at alex wallbank videos... top notch, and this is the way to go imho


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## jamwerks

VSL has always done top notch video walk-throughs!


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## MarcelM

jamwerks said:


> VSL has always done top notch video walk-throughs!



might be true, but they should be released when they offer the product and not weeks or days later.


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## jamwerks

Just purchased Syncron Strings I!

Goes to show that achieving total happiness is sometimes the matter of just a few clicks!


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## muziksculp

jamwerks said:


> Just purchased Syncron Strings I!
> 
> Goes to show that achieving total happiness is sometimes the matter of just a few clicks!



Congratulations ! 

I will be doing the same very soon. I have some VSL Vouchers that I haven't used, so that should help. 

Oh.. did you buy the Standard or Full version of Synchron Strings I ?


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## jamwerks

Standard, but I am interested in hearing some comparisons highlighting what those other mic positions can bring to a stereo mix.

Also interested in hearing details about the Syncron player and it's "panning" capabilities! Me thinks that might be a built-in MIRx feature.


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## muziksculp

Paul of VSL said they will be posting more info. about Synch. Strings I before the early bird special expires. So, keep an eye on their website for more info. and hopefully some well crafted demos.


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## muziksculp

Hi,

I went ahead, and purchased the _Full version_ of *Synchron Strings I * (with the help of some VSL vouchers I was holding on to a while ago, they came in very handy for this purchase) . 

Looking forward to more info. and demos posted in the near future. I'm very confident that Synchron Strings I are going to sound fantastic, and the playability, ease of use, and getting them to sound very lyrical, and expressive will be much easier done than with the Silent-Stage based Strings of VSL. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Simon Ravn

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I went ahead, and purchased the _Full version_ of *Synchron Strings I * (with the help of some VSL vouchers I was holding on to a while ago, they came in very handy for this purchase) .
> 
> Looking forward to more info. and demos posted in the near future. I'm very confident that Synchron Strings I are going to sound fantastic, and the playability, ease of use, and getting them to sound very lyrical, and expressive will be much easier done than with the Silent-Stage based Strings of VSL.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Bold move! I am very interested in more demos to see if it can sound better than the trailer... I think it sounds too sterile and too small for the section sizes given. Even what seems to be loud marcatos/staccatos towards the end have no dramatic intonation/vibrato and just sounds... dead. I really hope the new demos will surprise me because the concept and the attention to detail by the VSL team is always fabulous.


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## NYC Composer

I'm amazed anyone can hear the strings. At first I thought they had erred and put up a percussion demo.


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## FabioA

Guys, you are so hilarious.. 
It's a 40 secs trailer that have to catch your attention. You need percussions for that..and of course they took the chance to promote the other product from the Synchron Series previously released.
Personally, I was hoping for divisi feature too, because imho it can really make the difference (I loved it in the Symphonic Series Strings Ensemble); but it is unlikely, given the large amount of layers that this library will stream.


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer

FabioA said:


> It's a 40 secs trailer that have to catch your attention. You need percussions for that..



We can't deny that we live in a world where it's necessary to maximise eye-candy, shatter eardrums and blow minds every 5 seconds in order to keep most people's attention. If a company that wants to advertise their products like that it's fine by me - it's a valid strategy, it works and it gets plenty of sales.

But the more important point in my opinion is: string sections of that size are capable of way more aggressive, gritty and punchy sounds than those we've just heard in the demo. Percussion or no percussion. Let's hope they've saved those for later? Although according to your logic, they should've done the loudest, most attention grabbing things first.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

It's hilarious how people are alredy hearing the "dead", "emotionless", "sterile" and "synthy" sound. The mind is a deceptive apparatus sometimes ...


----------



## Saxer

I think it's just what they have now. New product, unpublished, probably in beta... and not every company has a Mr. Blaney...


----------



## rottoy

I really like what I heard, even if it wasn't much. 
A very crisp string sound, neither "muddy" nor "sterile" and "synthy".


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## jamwerks

Knowing what VSL has been able to do in the past, I have zero doubt this will be a awesome product. The only thing I didn't really like about their original string libraries was that sound of the room and I already know I like the sound of the new room.

They'll deliver great string sounds with great features, up to you to make it sound as sterile or lively as you know how to...


----------



## FabioA

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> We can't deny that we live in a world where it's necessary to maximise eye-candy, shatter eardrums and blow minds every 5 seconds in order to keep most people's attention. If a company that wants to advertise their products like that it's fine by me - it's a valid strategy, it works and it gets plenty of sales.
> 
> But the more important point in my opinion is: string sections of that size are capable of way more aggressive, gritty and punchy sounds than those we've just heard in the demo. Percussion or no percussion. Let's hope they've saved those for later? Although according to your logic, they should've done the loudest, most attention grabbing things first.



I have to honestly say I like what I heard. There's also much post-processing than usual compared to VSL trailers.
That said, I also have to say that imho it isn't a size matters, the way to get the aggressive and punchy sound you're looking for. On the contrary, to be aggressive you may prefer less but capable musicians. I think it's a matter of post-processing. Remember also the trailer has been made with violins plus cellos alone.
We are used to play on the keyboard with a staccato strings patch and get a huge sound as a result. You know that would not happen with a real orchestra. You need to combine timbre to get a powerful sound, while you can be aggressive as much as you want even with a single instrument.

BTW, I don't know what do you think, but I'm sick of 200 singer choirs and huge epic orchestral sound. I think (and hope) the direction of orchestral sound for movies (I'm speaking about real orchestral recordings) is going back to reasonable size but yet an aggressive, crispy and detailed sound when needed..


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## Jimmy Hellfire

FabioA said:


> That said, I also have to say that imho it isn't a size matters, the way to get the aggressive and punchy sound you're looking for. On the contrary, to be aggressive you may prefer less but capable musicians.
> ...
> I think (and hope) the direction of orchestral sound for movies (I'm speaking about real orchestral recordings) is going back to reasonable size but yet an aggressive, crispy and detailed sound when needed..



Absolutely. Punchiness and grit indeed are things that get lost in overly huge sounding sections. I thought the cellos in the Synchron Strings trailer sounded stellar. Tight and crunchy, but at the same time totally airy and transparent.

I too really hope that the sonic trends will eventually start shifting back to more natural, classy and focused sounds with substance and away from all the racket. Right now it's reached the point of absolute ridiculousness. I was in the theater recently to see the new Blade Runner, and the movie itself, as well as the trailers for upcoming stuff, honestly to my ears sounded like parodies. Borderline moronic to be honest.


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## Mihkel Zilmer

FabioA said:


> BTW, I don't know what do you think, but I'm sick of 200 singer choirs and huge epic orchestral sound. I think (and hope) the direction of orchestral sound for movies (I'm speaking about real orchestral recordings) is going back to reasonable size but yet an aggressive, crispy and detailed sound when needed..



I agree with everything you've said, except when you said that it's down to post-processing to achieve a gritty sound. It's not - it's performance technique! I want _martelé_, _marcato_ and _staccato_ that at their loudest dynamic really dig into the string, and give me a fair amount of bow noise. The loudest dynamics in the trailer however are still pretty restrained.

Again, I am hoping VSL is saving those for later (possibly Synchron Strings II?), because I am an avid user of their Synchron Percussion - the recording quality there is beyond belief.


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## FabioA

Yes! I know what you mean. But with this number of velocity layers (8 !!) how could they miss that!

But I hope (and I'm sure) as much that we will finally have proper pp layers !


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## jamwerks

And with 5 layers of pizz, finally some pianissimo pizz! And as a real test of how far they've gone, will the celli and double basses have some long pizz? On those long strings the sound can ring out quit a while (ever heard a guitar? ☺️). I've always missed that in other libraries...


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## Rob Elliott

I think VSL will not disappoint on the quality and 'range' of their samples. FOR ME - it boils down - will it be a TON more streamlined (than in the past) and will it enable me to get ideas down FAST. Until I see 'walkthroughs' showing this - I am holding on to my money.


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## muziksculp

Rob Elliott said:


> I think VSL will not disappoint on the quality and 'range' of their samples. FOR ME - it boils down - will it be a TON more streamlined (than in the past) and will it enable me to get ideas down FAST. Until I see 'walkthroughs' showing this - I am holding on to my money.



I think the whole idea of the new Synchron Player is to make it more streamlined, and user friendly, less of a matrix puzzle, most likely more stuff being handled intelligently in the background depending on the realtime played parameters. I'm guessing it would be a delightful realtime string performance experience.

Yes, I'm very optimistic, and have no doubt that VSL will deliver a fantastic new experience, and product with their new Synchron Player, also the fact that Synchron Libraries are compatible with VI-Pro2 , is another option if one needs to do more customization.


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## jamwerks

Remember the "playable" patch of the Sacconi solo strings? I have a feeling everybody will eventually head that direction. SF is hopefully adding that to all their orchestral stuff, and I wouldn't be surprised if VSL comes out here with something similar.


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## muziksculp

jamwerks said:


> Remember the "playable" patch of the Sacconi solo strings? I have a feeling everybody will eventually head that direction. SF is hopefully adding that to all their orchestral stuff, and I wouldn't be surprised if VSL comes out here with something similar.



I don't know much about this, what is so special as far as playability here ?


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## Mihkel Zilmer

muziksculp said:


> I don't know much about this, what is so special as far as playability here ?



Spitfire performance legato is now in Sacconi, Chamber Strings and Symphonic Strings. It's a very clever script that switches between articulations automatically (different legato types, different long and short notes) - takes a bit of practise, but gives very good results very fast once you know how to play it. 

I think it's a fantastic tool, but it also has a few limitations. I think ideally you would want to have both a "performance" patch, but also traditional separate patches.


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## jamwerks

muziksculp said:


> I don't know much about this, what is so special as far as playability here ?


Basically long, short & legato all in one. Check out the video walk-through, pretty cool stuff! 

We'll all soon see, but the Syncron perc had some pretty revolutionary release sample features, like what Fluffy audio did with their solo strings. Hoping VSL will have some novelties here also. Also wondering if the time stretching feature in VIP will work on these new ambient samples?


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## muziksculp

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> Spitfire performance legato is now in Sacconi, Chamber Strings and Symphonic Strings. It's a very clever script that switches between articulations automatically (different legato types, different long and short notes) - takes a bit of practise, but gives very good results very fast once you know how to play it.
> 
> I think it's a fantastic tool, but it also has a few limitations. I think ideally you would want to have both a "performance" patch, but also traditional separate patches.



Thanks for the feedback. I will check these performance legatos out.


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## Rob Elliott

I think the Embertone guys raised the bar on the Joshua Bell violin (intelligent under-the-hood) black magic.  Love to see SECTIONS with that sort of capability.


----------



## CT

ctsai89 said:


> Yea honestly I'm a bit dissapointed at the intro video as well. But I'm still having hopes up for this. Very very high hopes indeed despite my known hatred for Vsl's sounds. I really think they have great quality control but now if the hall would solve the "synthy" problem from their dry libraries that I'm hearing then I'm ready to hop on the band wagon



At the risk of getting up the hackles of VSL's ardent defenders, I do agree with you that this (admittedly brief and simple) first listen is not quite indicative of what I was hoping for. But I also agree about still having high hopes for this library, and this series in general, even though I am also not overly fond of the VSL sound. 

I use their existing strings often, actually, simply because the consistency and musical versatility/comprehensiveness is *almost* unmatched elsewhere. The sound though, yes... you and I are hardly the first people to have a complaint about the sound. 

I really believe it stems from the silent stage idea. It's all well and good to chop off the "room" from the end of samples, or to keep the baked-in ambience to a real minimum, to allow for some flexibility with acoustic simulation, but I think recording in a completely flat and characterless space is folly. You neuter the sound, and take away something that no amount of digital trickery can return. Acoustics is more than what happens after a note is played; it's how the note itself is colored, develops a sense of dimension, and how it evolves, based on the space it's in. The silent stage was one step too far.

Recording in something approaching an anechoic chamber leaves you with samples that will never sound right when paired with artificial reverb. There has to be a sense of "room" in the sample itself, I believe, whether or not developers then choose to keep the full ambience as in Spitfire, or to cut it out. 

Something like Adagietto, for all its musical limitedness (beautiful as it is in the right context), can to me sound brilliant in any kind of acoustic from viscerally intimate to utterly cavernous, with only basic reverb adjustments, because the samples themselves have a great sense of real space to them, but no overriding tail. That's how you do flexible sample libraries. That, to me, is what "dry" should mean. Not what VSL first intended it to mean. 

Anyway, the point of this blabbering is, the entire shift to the Synchron concept keeps me paying close attention to VSL. I think it could really be something to introduce natural space to all their existing virtues.


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## muziksculp

@miket,

I agree, VSL's Silent Stage is the main reason their Strings don't sound natural, and that's not something that can be remedied via MIR/Reverb, EQs, ..etc. An essential part of the sound is missing, and can't be re-constructed.

I should even add that it is even abnormal, and feels odd for a String player to play in such an acoustically dead space. The string player would play much better in an acoustically rich, and reverberant room/hall.

So, my guess is that the VSL String Session players enjoyed, and performed better playing their instruments in the Synchron Stage, compared to the Silent-Stage. Which will have a big impact on the way the samples will sound/translate in the final product.


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## muk

*** Some general informations about silent stage libraries here, which is a bit of a tangent considering the thread topic.

There are a lot of misconceptions floating around about the silent stage. Its name suggests that no outside noise is coming in, not that it is 'silent' (i.e. anechoic) inside. The silent stage has quite a lot of early reflections, though no tail in the usual sense. The reverberation time is roughly 0.9 seconds. The concept was designed to allow consistent recording of quiet signals (pp dynamics), without any unwanted noise being picked up.
A second misconception that comes up every now and then is that of close micing of these libraries. VSL's silent stage libraries were not close miced. The micing distance varied between 1m and 3m, depending on the library. See here:

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t42345-Silent-Stage-s-measurements#post255380

Dimension Strings would be the exception, where every individual player was recorded with a close mic

Whatever the reason for people to think that VSL strings sound unnatural, it is not because of the silent stage being anechoic, nor because of close micing (with the possible exception of DS).

Personally I presume that the bad rep that VSL strings got is because of a different aesthetic they follow. Herb Tucmandl came from a classical orchestral background, and I think it shows - well, sounds, rather - in the libraries. If you come straight out of a blockbuster movie and have little experience with live classical orchestra you'd probably think that the libraries sound strange. Likewise, if you'd never been to the movies and are coming straight out of a classical concert you'd probably think that Spitfire libraries sound weird. If you have some experience with both live orchestra and hollywood movies you'd reckon that they do sound different and both have their uses in their respective context. It is just an assumption, but sometimes I wonder how many of the people critizing 'the VSL sound' have ever been to a symphony concert or an opera.

Lastly, naturally there is always a lot of talk about the specific sound of each sample library. That's partly what this forum is about. When it comes to actual mockups though, theses specific sounds get terribly hard to pinpoint. If you don't know which libraries were used most probably you'll guess wrong more often than right. In the context of a mockup all of a sudden it's almost impossible to tell if it's VSL strings, or Spitfire, or EW, or Berlin Strings that you are hearing. So while it is interesting to analyse and talk about specific sound characteristics it's importance for a finished mockup is probably smaller than many would think. At least that has been my experience from feedback I was given and feedback that I have given on this forum.

Anyway, I don't work for VSL nor am I of the opinion that everybody should like and use their libraries. I just think that the occasional user of this forum can get a somewhat distorted impression of the opinions about how VSL sounds.

***Tangent over.

The current Synchron Strings Trailer is really just that in my opinion: a trailer. There is not much info that I gained from it other than the fact that the library exists and is due out in november. The sound is hard to judge with all the percussion going on, and only violins and celli being used. I found the mix slightly odd, with too much close mic being used for this kind of music. But that might be down to personal taste. I am looking forward to some proper demos and walkthrough videos.


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## muziksculp

@muk,

Thanks for your feedback, and opinion about VSL Strings and VSL's silent-stage.

I don't really hear a Classical Sound when I hear VSL Strings, but rather, I hear something missing in their timbre, like they sound un-natural, something about them just sounds odd, given that I attend live concerts, and listen to a lot of classical recordings, Classical strings sound beautiful, rich in timbre, and very expressive, no complaints there. I wish I could say the same about VSL's Strings.


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## CT

Agreed. I was familiar with the sound of "classical" strings (live and recorded) long before I got to intimately know what "cinematic" strings were, and the VSL strings just don't really fit either bill according to my ears, hence my daily struggle to balance their supreme usefulness with that one drawback.

And yes, of course the silent stage isn't anechoic, which is why I said "approaching anechoic." Meaning that, as I understand it, part of the philosophy was to have a room that would impart as little of its own character to the sounds as possible, but not to have a *completely* dead and reflectionless space.


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## erica-grace

muk said:


> Personally I presume that the bad rep that VSL strings got is because of a different aesthetic they follow. Herb Tucmandl came from a classical orchestral background, and I think it shows - well, sounds, rather - in the libraries.



Well, that's not really a valid argument. Look at EWQLSO - who recorded that? A classical orchestral guru.


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## ctsai89

miket said:


> Agreed. I was familiar with the sound of "classical" strings (live and recorded) long before I got to intimately know what "cinematic" strings were, and the VSL strings just don't really fit either bill according to my ears, hence my daily struggle to balance their supreme usefulness with that one drawback.
> 
> And yes, of course the silent stage isn't anechoic, which is why I said "approaching anechoic." Meaning that, as I understand it, part of the philosophy was to have a room that would impart as little of its own character to the sounds as possible, but not to have a *completely* dead and reflectionless space.


Yep I've got The same exact experience.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

The second I stopped trying to get a "symphonic" sound out of VSL, they suddenly became the best at what they were. I bought Spitfire for the "hall" and use VSL if I want a really tight dryish sound - Drowning it in reverb just never worked for me and so I stopped trying.

I agree with muk - especially their Orchestral Strings I & II. I distinctly remember listening to a recording of an 19th century composer (can't recall now) and thinking how remarkably similar the recording sounded to VSL Orchestral Strings.


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## chapbot

ctsai89 said:


> Yep I've got The same exact experience.





miket said:


> Agreed. I was familiar with the sound of "classical" strings (live and recorded) long before I got to intimately know what "cinematic" strings were, and the VSL strings just don't really fit either bill according to my ears, hence my daily struggle to balance their supreme usefulness with that one drawback.
> 
> And yes, of course the silent stage isn't anechoic, which is why I said "approaching anechoic." Meaning that, as I understand it, part of the philosophy was to have a room that would impart as little of its own character to the sounds as possible, but not to have a *completely* dead and reflectionless space.


miket and ctsai89, I'd like to hear you describe more in detail the differences between classical and cinematic strings, with examples.


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## ctsai89

chapbot said:


> miket and ctsai89, I'd like to hear you describe more in detail the differences between classical and cinematic strings, with examples.



for me: you can hear classical string sounds easily from any recordings since 1950's till now, tchaikovsky symphony and etc, just look it up. I played in orchestras for decades from elementary school till college and have subbed for a few professional orchestras here and there.

Cinematic strings doens't have much difference but they tend to be recorded in studio halls and has exactly that sound for example the sound of Berlin strings.

And honestly there isn't that much difference between cinematic strings or classical strings.

There however is a huge difference between VSL "dry" (even with reverb) strings and between either cinemtic/clssica strings. Huge difference to my ears.

Some people get really angry when I say it but there are many that agree with me. Quite frankly the VSL dry strings doesn't sound much different than Sibelius 6 play back to me.

But Spitfire is quite close to the classical string sound.

Berlin is close to cinematic strings. (CSS) as well.

but it's not the "dry" that's the problem

Because Chris Hein's solo violin/cello sounds pretty close to the real thing too and they're dry, even when I turn the built in reverb off. 

Something about the way VSL strings is recorded just turns me off for the sound.


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## germancomponist

I never liked the sound of this "silent stage" and I've often said that VSL would be able to record best sounding libraries when they go to a real stage. And now finally it is so far. I bet: Now comes a new era, a fantastic sound from VSL. I am very excited.


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## Piotrek K.

Hey, I don't want to derail discussion, so just a quick heads up - jrr shop already has Synchron Strings I. Standard edition with in-cart discount is for 375$...


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## Vik

Interesting post, ctsai. Regarding those differences, besides the 'classical' vs 'cinematic' description, what exactly do you think is different? Different kind of vibrato? Different legatos? Is it the dry/wet thing? One thing which makes one string lib different from another, is clearly the emotional aspect of it. If you look at all the Spitfire strings, for instance, some of the long notes are more 'emotional' (cinematic?) - or even 'soaring' - than the others. The rach articulations, for instance. CSS is more 'emotional' than the normale Spitfire longs, and more than the Berlin normale longs as well. And after I bought Mural as the first main string lib for many years - while I was somehow disappointed by the lack of 'emotion', the sul tastos and con sords were still very useful for certain types of music, and perfect for certain types of cinematic music. Of course we don't always want soaring, emotional strings, which is why it's good to have more neutral, or 'poetic' longs as well. 

I think that in the not too distant future, we'll see string lib makers who offer several legatos legatos, all with a big variety of articulations and advanced adaptive legato/portamento, where the difference between their various longs are on that emotional/soaring level. Berlin Strings and SF offer many longs already, and they can all be made into legatos if you use the multi-patch, but they aren't all equally advanced when it comes portamento control. 

And regarding VSL, or at least Dimension Strings, they are libraries that if you just play them out of the box, they may not be that convincing, but when working properly with them, they sound extremely far from the Sibelius factory strings - and sometimes are among the most convincing string libraries on the planet. 
Btw, I agree with those who say that the single demo we have of Synchron strings so far isn't at all enough to convince them/me to order it. They could still be brilliant in more detailed demos.


----------



## FabioA

EWQLSO had already the largest number of variations for long notes, so that you could always find the right sound you were looking for (almost).
It worked so well for strings imo, not so good for woodwinds, where it was almost impossible to switch articulation without an "unnatural" change in the timbre.
A lot of people seems to love CSS nowadays, that gives you basically a single option concerning sustained notes..so I don't know what to think..


----------



## muziksculp

Vik said:


> And regarding VSL, or at least Dimension Strings, they are libraries that if you just play them out of the box, they may not be that convincing, but when working properly with them, they sound extremely far from the Sibelius factory strings - and sometimes are among the most convincing string libraries on the planet.



I agree on this point. But the 'Working properly' is the tough part for many users. What does that really mean ?

Well, I think it is a bit of a puzzling thing when it comes to 'working Properly' with VSL Libraries. I heard some great demos made with VSL libraries, and some other demos that could sound like Sibelius Factory String Patches 

The Matrix/Matrices, is one part of the puzzle. How best to use it in a creative, smart, and useful manner. There are so many options, and combination of ways to go about setting up the Matrices, So many articulations to choose from and manage in a Matrix system can be quite a challenge.

The other part of 'Working Properly' with VSL Libraries, is the sonic treatment of the instruments. i.e. Using MIR, or other reverbs, or both, and placement in the hall, EQ, Compression, ..etc. Every thing counts, and matters to obtain great sounding, realistic results from VSL. Yes, they are attainable, no problem there, but if one can accomplish the same with less of the very long time consuming 'Working Properly' requirement, which for VSL is a must do task, more than any other library, So.. I feel that the bottom line is 'Time' !

How much time is one able to dedicate to VSL's libraries to make them breath, sing, and shine both in terms of performance, control, and sonic treatment. From my experience with VSL Libraries, it can be done, but it is quite a tiring, and exhaustive effort, and I would even say, at times, quite frustrating, rather than a joy to work with.

I also feel that VSL would have helped quite a bit if they posted additional in-depth, professionally produced Video tutorials to help us VSL users get the best results form their products, and learn some of the important tips & tricks needed to get those wonderful sounding, and musical results we wanted to achieve when we purchased their products.

I'm hoping that the new *Synchron Strings I* will change this, and their new *Synchron Player* will be an important tool to drastically improve productivity, and final results.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Piotrek K. said:


> Hey, I don't want to derail discussion, so just a quick heads up - jrr shop already has Synchron Strings I. Standard edition with in-cart discount is for 375$...



Indeed. That's a ridiculous price. How does this even work? I never purchased anything from JJR yet. Is this in-cart discount something they do by default?


----------



## Rob Elliott

muziksculp said:


> I agree on this point. But the 'Working properly' is the tough part for many users. What does that really mean ?
> 
> Well, I think it is a bit of a puzzling thing when it comes to 'working Properly' with VSL Libraries. I heard some great demos made with VSL libraries, and some other demos that could sound like Sibelius Factory String Patches
> 
> The Matrix/Matrices, is one part of the puzzle. How best to use it in a creative, smart, and useful manner. There are so many options, and combination of ways to go about setting up the Matrices, So many articulations to choose from and manage in a Matrix system can be quite a challenge.
> 
> The other part of 'Working Properly' with VSL Libraries, is the sonic treatment of the instruments. i.e. Using MIR, or other reverbs, or both, and placement in the hall, EQ, Compression, ..etc. Every thing counts, and matters to obtain great sounding, realistic results from VSL. Yes, they are attainable, no problem there, but if one can accomplish the same with less of the very long time consuming 'Working Properly' requirement, which for VSL is a must do task, more than any other library, So.. I feel that the bottom line is 'Time' !
> 
> How much time is one able to dedicate to VSL's libraries to make them breath, sing, and shine both in terms of performance, control, and sonic treatment. From my experience with VSL Libraries, it can be done, but it is quite a tiring, and exhaustive effort, and I would even say, at times, quite frustrating, rather than a joy to work with.
> 
> I also feel that VSL would have helped quite a bit if they posted additional in-depth, professionally produced Video tutorials to help us VSL users get the best results form their products, and learn some of the important tips & tricks needed to get those wonderful sounding, and musical results we wanted to achieve when we purchased their products.
> 
> I'm hoping that the new *Synchron Strings I* will change this, and their new *Synchron Player* will be an important tool to drastically improve productivity, and final results.



Couldn't have said it any better. SPOT ON.


----------



## Michael Antrum

There is often, but not always, a discount on products from JRR. There have been one or two occasions where they initially offered a discount and then it disappeared - probably a manufacturer asking them to do so. 

I have looked at VSL for a long time, and the only product of theirs I use VEPro. This new string library is really tempting me - but there are a couple of things stopping me from jumping in:

- There is too little info and too few audio demos of these strings just now. I am sure that VSL will address this as we get closer to the release date. VSL are a very professional company and I am sure they will give us much more info on whether to jump in or not.

- I have real problems with their lost dongle policy - which has been done to death on other threads - but it is a real factor for me as I travel a lot. (I've never lost a dongle yet but.......)


----------



## Piotrek K.

I'm waiting eagerly for more specs and demos from VSL too. For now it is a bit like buying a pig in a poke. I know that there is a pig, a big one, but I'm not sure if this is THE pig 



> - I have real problems with their lost dongle policy - which has been done to death on other threads - but it is a real factor for me as I travel a lot. (I've never lost a dongle yet but.......)



There actually is a little light in that tunnel. Recently I noticed on VSL forums this thing said by Paul from VSL about license handling.



> This dream depends on the technical possibilities that Steinberg, owner of the eLicenser technology, provides for us. RIght now such a solution is not available, but I hope that we can find a workable solution in the future (we are working on it, and have been for quite a while).



Are they working on different licensing system? Sounds a bit like it.

For the context here is original thread: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...y-and-Vienna-Account---ON-OFF-Mode#post265481


----------



## F. Pirrone

It's interesting to see that new VSL releases can still trigger the old age debate about the library and the concept behind it. 

I like VSL and I still use the Special Edition a lot, when I bought it in late 2014 it was my favorite compromise between sound, price and access to any instrument. Customizable matrices allowed me to create a comfortable and playable template......which enables me to render whatever I have in mind one track after the other, with my previous samples I always had to limit my music to what sounded credible with a specific patch or combination of patches.

That being said, I agree that dry sound makes it difficult to achieve the final sonic result I have in mind, I spend a lot of time choosing the appropriate IR and trying to create the sense of depth. You already know that very well. 

Synchron Stage series might address the need of depth/lushness/richness whilst keeping the Vienna playability, flexibility and credible performance. It will be exciting to hear the actual demos/walkthrough and to compare them to Spitfire and the other baked-in sounds on the market.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

F. Pirrone said:


> Synchron Stage series might address the need of depth/lushness/richness whilst keeping the Vienna playability, flexibility and credible performance. It will be exciting to hear the actual demos/walkthrough and to compare them to Spitfire and the other baked-in sounds on the market.



It might not be what you expect though. I think a lot of time when people talk about "wet", they mean a long and rich reverb tail. But that's not what room information is all about.

When you listen to Synchron Percussion - it's got fantastic depth, clarity and power. Super-high quality. The room sounds incredible. But what you don't get is this super-warm and lush tail that rings on forever. It's more like the Cinematic Studio series than it is like Spitfire - meaning, the spaciousness, richness and depth are there, but it's still tight, firm and flexible.

I just finished a piece where I used a lot of Synchron Timpani, alongside SF brass and strings, and CSS. I used a touch of Adaptiverb tail on everything just to pull it all together. I have a -9 Db send on all the SF stuff, just a touch. On CSS and the Timpani, I can get away with -6. For dry samples, I go with -3 Db.


----------



## F. Pirrone

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It might not be what you expect though. I think a lot of time when people talk about "wet", they mean a long and rich reverb tail. But that's not what room information is all about.
> 
> When you listen to Synchron Percussion - it's got fantastic depth, clarity and power. Super-high quality. The room sounds incredible. But what you don't get is this super-warm and lush tail that rings on forever. It's more like the Cinematic Studio series than it is like Spitfire - meaning, the spaciousness, richness and depth are there, but it's still tight, firm and flexible.
> 
> I just finished a piece where I used a lot of Synchron Timpani, alongside SF brass and strings, and CSS. I used a touch of Adaptiverb tail on everything just to pull it all together. I have a -9 Db send on all the SF stuff, just a touch. On CSS and the Timpani, I can get away with -6. For dry samples, I go with -3 Db.


I see what you mean. Have you shared the track anywhere?


----------



## shnootre

Man, I am so excited about this library. I'm a composer who is relatively new to the VI world. I had some grant money and read this forum to death last summer, and as a result bought a bunch of Spitfire and Berlin libraries. They sound nice, but unlike the going word here, I discovered that VSL was SO much easier to use! VI Pro is so vastly superior to Kontakt it stuns me that that isn't even brought up in this conversation. And I just don't understand what's so difficult about making matrices. You get to put the articulations you need and want wherever you want them, and have them triggered however you like. 

I also love the way VSL just keeps releasing quality products, without mega-hype, and then leaves them in their arsenal, and they retain their value for years and years. If I see one more Spitfire teaser..."It's coming...two days from now..." and then it's like...another Albion library. 

Anyway, I've been gradually moving towards an all-VSL setup. I'm a classical guy and not a film guy, so maybe that's part of it. I haven't found it difficult to make the dry VSL instruments sound good. A nice convolution reverb, with a few different settings for positioning, works great. 

I think the general vibe on this forum is very anti-VSL, and very worshipful of Spitfire. Ultimately, I guess, everyone just has to find out what works best for them. I just caution other newer users against buying the hype - there are a lot of great products there don't really get much love on VI-Control, and then a lot of products with halos around them (boy has my life gotten better since replacing Soundiron Olympus with VSL's Vienna Choir! - the unsexiest, most un-hyped library ever... but it's SO much easier to use, and the sound is more in the universe of the music I make) that I think are either undeserved, or connected to a very specific spot on the vast continuum of music making. 

I am really eager to hear more demos of Synchron strings. But the fact that it's going to run on VI Pro, and possibly get an even more enhanced player, makes it just a no-brainer for me.


----------



## Prockamanisc

shnootre said:


> Man, I am so excited about this library. I'm a composer who is relatively new to the VI world. I had some grant money and read this forum to death last summer, and as a result bought a bunch of Spitfire and Berlin libraries. They sound nice, but unlike the going word here, I discovered that VSL was SO much easier to use! VI Pro is so vastly superior to Kontakt it stuns me that that isn't even brought up in this conversation. And I just don't understand what's so difficult about making matrices. You get to put the articulations you need and want wherever you want them, and have them triggered however you like.
> 
> I also love the way VSL just keeps releasing quality products, without mega-hype, and then leaves them in their arsenal, and they retain their value for years and years. If I see one more Spitfire teaser..."It's coming...two days from now..." and then it's like...another Albion library.
> 
> Anyway, I've been gradually moving towards an all-VSL setup. I'm a classical guy and not a film guy, so maybe that's part of it. I haven't found it difficult to make the dry VSL instruments sound good. A nice convolution reverb, with a few different settings for positioning, works great.
> 
> I think the general vibe on this forum is very anti-VSL, and very worshipful of Spitfire. Ultimately, I guess, everyone just has to find out what works best for them. I just caution other newer users against buying the hype - there are a lot of great products there don't really get much love on VI-Control, and then a lot of products with halos around them (boy has my life gotten better since replacing Soundiron Olympus with VSL's Vienna Choir! - the unsexiest, most un-hyped library ever... but it's SO much easier to use, and the sound is more in the universe of the music I make) that I think are either undeserved, or connected to a very specific spot on the vast continuum of music making.
> 
> I am really eager to hear more demos of Synchron strings. But the fact that it's going to run on VI Pro, and possibly get an even more enhanced player, makes it just a no-brainer for me.


I love this post. I was a VSL junkie for a few years then hopped on the Spitfire bandwagon. While I was scoring something this summer I was trying to get a melody to sit right in the Spitfire violins, but it wouldn't sound good no matter how much I tweaked it. I copied the midi region into a VSL violin track and it sounded perfect immediately, without any tweaking. Instantly I re-converted. Spitfire is rich and incredible sounding and does some really nice stuff that VSL doesn't do, but as a classical/film composer it's VSL that gets the music out of my head. 

That said, I really want to hear some more demos before I jump into Synchron. I was honestly disappointed with their demo, especially remembering how blown away I was when I heard their Dimension Strings demo for the first time.


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## novaburst

shnootre said:


> everyone just has to find out what works best for them.



Could not agree more, if something does not work for you then move on.


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## Vik

shnootre said:


> VI Pro is so vastly superior to Kontakt it stuns me that that isn't even brought up in this conversation.


Interesting... can you elaborate/post some examples of what you think is better with VI Pro? I only have avery old VSL library (for EXS24) and haven't used it much, so I don't have much first hand experience with their libraries. 



> I think the general vibe on this forum is very anti-VSL, and very worshipful of Spitfire.


 There has been some SF worship here, and part of it may have to do with the fact that SF is more active when it comes to promoting their products in various ways. But if you look at the graphs here, VSL generally has very good 'happy with'-ratings on this forum:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...g-libraries-and-why.60460/page-7#post-4072545


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## Lotias

Vik said:


> Interesting... can you elaborate/post some examples of what you think is better with VI Pro? I only have avery old VSL library (for EXS24) and haven't used it much, so I don't have much first hand experience with their libraries.


The advantage of the Vienna Instruments player, even the free version you get by default with their libraries, is complete customization of how the sample libraries play - key switches, CC switching, velocity switching, etcetera. There are several additional advantages of the Pro player, such as being able to time-stretch articulations with a customizable envelope. There are others, but you can find a full list somewhere.


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## muziksculp

VSL's VI-Pro 2 Is quite a powerful editing environment to customize VSL Instruments to one's needs, taste, workflow,..etc.

You can layer articulations, crossfade between them, change the attack, and release of a sound, and automate all of these via CC's, Humanize the pitch of each note according to multiple custom curves, and control the amount of pitch humanization, assigning a key range, and fade regions for each articulation across the keyboard, the ability to adjust the dynamic response of each articulation via a velocity curve, Switching articulations via Keys, Speed, CC, Velocity, ..and many other unique features, this is the type of editing I stay away from when using Kontakt. 

Imho. VI-Pro 2 is a blessing, and a curse at the same time, it offers a lot of power, flexibility, customization, realtime performance tools, ..etc. etc. but that could mean spending a good amount of time tweaking ! It is also what allows one to create a custom unique sound, and not rely on presets. This one is quite a big deal when I compare it to the way Kontakt libraries are used these days.

One Kontakt Library based developer that I feel is trying to change this is *Orchestral Tools*, Thanks to their *CAPSULE *system.


----------



## Vik

Thanks. VSL - and LASS+ Hollywood strings - have some demos which definitely are among the best I've heard anywhere, and I don't own any of these libraries (except my old EXS version). From what I've read, Synchron Strings seems interesting, especially this part: "New algorithms require a minimum of manual articulation switching". The only demo which is up yet isn't very convincing to me personally, and 16 V1s without divisi is n't exactly what I need right now, but I'll definitely watch demos and walkthroughs when they are posted, due to the fact that VSL are very serious and experienced, because many earlier demos sound very good, and because those who own VSL stuff generally seems very happy with them. 
And I agree about Capsule, btw. It's clearly superior to everything else I have used (but again, I haven't used any of the newer VSL libraries).


----------



## ChristianM

@Vilk
+1 for divisi


----------



## fixxer49

Prockamanisc said:


> I love this post. I was a *VSL junkie for a few years* then *hopped on the Spitfire bandwagon.* While I was scoring something this summer I was trying to get a melody to sit right in the Spitfire violins, but it wouldn't sound good no matter how much I tweaked it. *I copied the midi region into a VSL violin track and it sounded perfect immediately, without any tweaking. Instantly I re-converted.* Spitfire is rich and incredible sounding and does some really nice stuff that VSL doesn't do, but as a classical/film composer it's VSL that gets the music out of my head.
> 
> That said, I really want to hear some more demos before I jump into Synchron. I was honestly disappointed with their demo, especially remembering how blown away I was when I heard their Dimension Strings demo for the first time.


i don’t understand some of the abject Manichaeism on this forum with regard to orchestral libraries. does it have to be “either/or”? you can use both or multiple - or whatever it takes - to get the results you need, no?


----------



## Saxer

On top of the possibilities the VI-Pro2 player is very low on CPU and loads at least 10 times faster than Kontakt. Try layering 8 solo legato strings in Kontakt and crossfade them to a layer of 8 tremolos: instant CPU overdrive. Dimension Strings are doing exactly that without any problem.


----------



## Prockamanisc

fixxer49 said:


> i don’t understand some of the abject Manichaeism on this forum with regard to orchestral libraries. does it have to be “either/or”? you can use both or multiple - or whatever it takes - to get the results you need, no?


Yeah, because you have to pick and choose how you're going to spend your money (at least I do, I have limited funds). Sometimes its better to put $1000 towards a single developer rather than $500 split between two developers. So probably what you're seeing is the side effect of our thought process that lead us to decide which developer we were going to spend our money on.


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## rottoy

Saxer said:


> On top of the possibilities the VI-Pro2 player is very low on CPU and loads at least 10 times faster than Kontakt. Try layering 8 solo legato strings in Kontakt and crossfade them to a layer of 8 tremolos: instant CPU overdrive. Dimension Strings are doing exactly that without any problem.


I had no idea the VI-Pro2 Player was that efficient. Amazing!


----------



## shnootre

Some good points above. I have Berlin Woodwinds and Berlin Percussion, and Capsule is definitely an improvement over most Kontakt setups. But it is seriously just a baby step when compared to VI Pro. I often find myself wishing I could make use of the great Spitfire and OT sounds I have within the context of VI Pro. And while I agree it is POSSIBLE to spend too much time customizing in VI Pro, it is also super quick to set up a basic matrix once you're over the learning curve.


----------



## fixxer49

Prockamanisc said:


> Yeah, because you have to pick and choose how you're going to spend your money (at least I do, I have limited funds). Sometimes its better to put $1000 towards a single developer rather than $500 split between two developers. So probably what you're seeing is the side effect of our thought process that lead us to decide which developer we were going to spend our money on.


point taken - i might not have considered the financial aspect of it.


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## Alex Fraser

fixxer49 said:


> i don’t understand some of the abject Manichaeism on this forum with regard to orchestral libraries. does it have to be “either/or”? you can use both or multiple - or whatever it takes - to get the results you need, no?



Because as humans, we're weirdly tribal?
On a global scale, that means country verses country, race verses race. In our strange corner of the internet, it means VSL verses Spitfire, Logic verses Cubase etc into infinity. Silly really.

Once we've made a purchasing decision, for some reason we continue to need to justify it.


----------



## Vik

Alex Fraser said:


> In our strange corner of the internet, it means VSL verses Spitfire,


Yet, it seems as if very few VI users stick to only one brand.


----------



## jamwerks

Having VEP & Syncron player all in house, VSL has so much more going for it. To say nothing of also owning their own recording space.

All the other devs have been hurt by the relative weakness of Kontakt, and that their work is so easily stolen.

I've wondered if Spitfire would develop their own sampler. Going from 2 parner/owners to 3 made me think they used those funds (probably around $1m) to do so...

Now that VSL will have ambient samples, wonder if there's still room for so many other devs doing the same kind of libraries...


----------



## muziksculp

I know this might never happen, but could you imagine if in the future VSL announces that they are going to license their vienna player to other library developers, with a very secure system.


----------



## germancomponist

I think this will never happen. Why should they do this? Money?


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## muziksculp

germancomponist said:


> I think this will never happen. Why should they do this? Money?



As I said, 'I think this will never happen' but .. then it might happen one of these days, not sure if money is the main reason that will drive them to do it, but money is surely is an important factor. I could imagine NI getting a bit nervous just thinking this could happen


----------



## Vik

muziksculp said:


> I know this might never happen, but could you imagine if in the future VSL announces that they are going to license their vienna player to other library developers, with a very secure system.


Good idea. They could both make money on it and get a beneficial side effect: people who already use their sampler and therefore have learned their UI would be more likely to buy their own libraries as well.


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## jamwerks

I'm sure VSL has received many licensing offers. Who knows if they'll continue to say no.

Creating a new sampler is obviously expensive. Some kind of joint venture would make sense, at least on paper.


----------



## Diffusor

Really interested in the Synchron series. I have to say VSL is the best in terms of sample capturing. Their stuff is always cleanly recorded and perfect; unlike Spitfire and some others who have good stuff but are plagued with undesired imperfections. And they have the best player hands down.


----------



## Saxer

FGBR said:


> Will the new Synchron Player be included or do you have to purchase it separately? And in case, how much?


Nobody knows. It isn't even ready.


----------



## ChristianM

buy first, we'll tell you later what you bought ...


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## FabioA

ChristianM said:


> buy first, we'll tell you later what you bought ...


Buy it now with the 30% of discount, or wait for the release and buy it with 20% of discount for a month, or wait longer and purchase it at full price..


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## ChristianM

Yes for price, and for french, with audideluxe or jrr + exchange = -60%
But what ?


----------



## FabioA

ChristianM said:


> Yes for price, and for french, with audideluxe or jrr + exchange = -60%
> But what ?


 
So, what's your point? Why to complain? 66% discount...I think a bit of trustness is part of the deal. If you are not confident with their product, you can wait for the release, wait for more demo, user reviews.
Basically it's simply a pre-order, the same you may do with albums, cinema tickets, etc. :/


----------



## ChristianM

I'm not complaining, but I'm careful...
It is possible that this library does not suit me and therefore is a loss to me. I dont know. I wait…


----------



## FabioA

ChristianM said:


> I'm not complaining, but I'm careful...
> It is possible that this library does not suit me and therefore is a loss to me. I dont know. I wait…


I agree with you! And I'm sure we'll have more details before the early offer ends.


----------



## FabioA

ChristianM said:


> I'm not complaining, but I'm careful...
> It is possible that this library does not suit me and therefore is a loss to me. I dont know. I wait…


I agree with you! And I'm sure we'll have more details before the early offer ends.


----------



## Michael Antrum

If you do not like the library, at least VSL is one of the developers who will let you resell it - so it wouldn't be a total loss.....


----------



## cyrilblanc

*I will wait that they find a solution of the 50 % clause (you need to repay 50 % of the product you bought if your Vienna key is lost, stollen, burned...) until I buy more stuff from VSL*


----------



## Casiquire

For everyone complaining about the discount, you know other sites tend to carry VSL libraries cheaper than the main VSL site, even when they discount their products.


----------



## fiestared

12 days and still no demo, no date, nothing...


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## muziksculp

fiestared said:


> 12 days and still no demo, no date, nothing...



Well, they said Nov. release, but they didn't specify which day in Nov. , so it might be more than 12 days away.


----------



## prodigalson

came across this video this morning. live strings recorded at Synchron.


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## muziksculp

prodigalson said:


> came across this video this morning. live strings recorded at Synchron.




Thanks for posting this. The Sychron Stage sounds wonderful


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## ChristianM

Ok for live, but with with String 1 ??


----------



## muziksculp

ChristianM said:


> Ok for live, but with with String 1 ??



I'm super optimistic, and confident that VSL Strings 1 (Synchron) will sound Fantastico !


----------



## ChristianM

I prefer to judge with my ears (without offense) ; -)


----------



## muziksculp

ChristianM said:


> I prefer to judge with my ears (without offense) ; -)



No offense at all. I judge with my ears as well, but there is nothing wrong being optimistic, and positive


----------



## chapbot

fixxer49 said:


> i don’t understand some of the abject Manichaeism on this forum with regard to orchestral libraries. does it have to be “either/or”? you can use both or multiple - or whatever it takes - to get the results you need, no?


Yes, sometimes it is "either/or." I deeply regret my expensive Spitfire Chamber Strings purchase. They simply won't work with the pop music I'm arranging as well as my VSL. I can't resell it, either, so I'm stuck. So do you think I'll take the risk and buy any more Spitfire products?


----------



## fixxer49

chapbot said:


> Yes, sometimes it is "either/or." I deeply regret my expensive Spitfire Chamber Strings purchase. They simply won't work with the pop music I'm arranging as well as my VSL. I can't resell it, either, so I'm stuck. So do you think I'll take the risk and buy any more Spitfire products?


If it's any consolation, I've had a LOT of purchase decisions that I've regretted -- initially -- only to to come back to them later and find, with exploration, that they fill a specific need better than anything else. (Chamber Strings is one such library for me, in fact.) you may get some use out of it yet...


----------



## novaburst

Am I correct in saying VSL have taken the East West root in cutting down available mic but offering full articulation
and the full String library on there new standard Synchron String Library as opposed to the full version

never the less they are still offering at least 4 mic positions on their standard Synchron String library and for the 30% off for the early bird I feel its a no brainer.


----------



## novaburst

Also noted there is no size given to this library,


----------



## Pianolando

Also there still are no demos. Looks great on paper with 8 velocity layers on many of the articulations!


----------



## ChristianM

Last message from VSL Forum :
"
Hello everybody, 

There will be more demos, and as usual, our Early Bird Offer will not expire until the release of Synchron Strings I. 

And of course there will be a reminder email to announce the actualy release of Synchron Strings I. 

Also, thanks for your patience, those last days and weeks are essential for such a big step, especially with a brand-new software. I actually can't wait to show you more, but we're simply not there yet.

Have a great weekend!

Paul & the VSL Team
"


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> Am I correct in saying VSL have taken the East West root in cutting down available mic but offering full articulation
> and the full String library on there new standard Synchron String Library as opposed to the full version



I don't think so. The standard library already comes with the essential mic positions - close, front and decca. That should be fully sufficient for most users and situations. The additional mics in the full version are all about surround and 3D sound (5.1, Auro, Atmos etc.)


----------



## novaburst

C-Wave said:


> I except something like 400 plus GB for the standard version. Similar to Synchron Percussion I.



I think this is a very friendly Price considering, as there are no articulation confiscations for the standard library this is a huge step from VSL., if the new Synchron player comes out with this library I think VSL will be looking at a meltdown,

When you consider all the facts this offer will not be beaten even with all the black Friday sales.

not only will it become the leader in String library, it has also become the best offer, with the new player on the horizon any one refusing this need to reassess ones self.

The offer is huge


----------



## Vik

I'm sure it will be good - earlier libraries from VSL sound good and they certainly know what has happened with various kinds of adaptive legato solutions from eg Orchestral Tools and Spitfire. But it's kind of..... brave to launch a new library with 16 V1s and no divisi solutions.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Vik said:


> But it's kind of..... brave to launch a new library with 16 V1s and no divisi solutions.



Is it? The generally high regarded other major string libraries don't offer this either (CSS, Berlin, Spitfire ...). Doesn't seem as if it was a highly demanded feature across the board. Who knows, perhaps there will be an expansion centered around that at some point. Or perhaps VSL thinks they've sufficiently covered divisi with DS. I assume SSII is going to be Con Sordino.


----------



## FabioA

Vik said:


> I'm sure it will be good - earlier libraries from VSL sound good and they certainly know what has happened with various kinds of adaptive legato solutions from eg Orchestral Tools and Spitfire. But it's kind of..... brave to launch a new library with 16 V1s and no divisi solutions.


I'm pretty sure "adaptive legato solutions" were already part of VI Pro since quite a long time. In VI Pro description:

Sample player software with intelligent Performance Detection for all _Vienna Instruments._*
It's just they didn't specify all the features as others usually do. Personally, I'm not a big fan of invasive adaptive legato, mainly because that kind of feature comes with a lot (and everytime different) delay in the performance. Look at CSS..

About divisi, I would love (and expect) divisi capability from VSL, considering their accuracy in terms of balancing and classic writing. But at the same time..with 8 velocity layer and 10 variations for key, a divisi feature would mean a library doubled in size. And I think Synchron Strings will be already quite huge.
So they preferred more dynamic layers and variatiations than a divisi feature, that is nice to have and it makes the difference sometimes imho, but it's not a dealbreaker.
Maybe they will record and work on some articulation with divisi in Synchron Strings II, who knows.


----------



## Vik

"Is it? The generally high regarded other major string libraries don't offer this either (CSS, Berlin, Spitfire ...). "
True, but Spitfire suggest susing their chamber strings for divisi, and Berlin Strings are are only 8 V1s. CSS has 10 1st violinist (and 7 2nd violinists) - but it's still possible to get a detailed and relatively intimate sound with CSS.

Maybe it's not exactly 'brave', and maybe they have plans for divisi or at least mix positions that are so close and dry that they can be used for divisi/a more close, detailed sound.


----------



## Vik

FabioA said:


> I'm pretty sure "adaptive legato solutions" were already part of VI Pro since quite a long time. In VI Pro description:
> 
> Sample player software with intelligent Performance Detection for all _Vienna Instruments._*


Regarding improvements in the adaptive legato area, they also wrote "New algorithms require a minimum of manual articulation switching". Very interesting. 
Regarding performance delays in adaptive algorithms - I know about the CSS situation. But Berlin Strings also have good automatic articulation switching - without that delay that comes with the CSS solution.


----------



## muziksculp

They might also have plans for a Synchron-Dimension-Strings release in the future. Which will give us total control over section sizes, and for divisi writing.


----------



## Vik

muziksculp said:


> They might also have plans for a Synchron-Dimension-Strings release in the future. Which will give us total control over section sizes, and for divisi writing.


Sounds like a good idea, but I wonder if one needs - in order to get the best possible solution for section sizes and divisi writing - 8 mono violins. Maybe one would be better off would be better off with four stereo voices instead - especially if they weren't all consisting of two instruments each.


----------



## FabioA

muziksculp said:


> They might also have plans for a Synchron-Dimension-Strings release in the future. Which will give us total control over section sizes, and for divisi writing.


I'm afraid that's impossible. The concept of Dimensions was to record individually players that were playing at the same time (and that's totally important to achieve the sound of an ensemble, it could not work recording individual player alone, that would also require infinite time of recordings...)
The point is that you can't achieve that kind of recording in a nornal studio hall like Synchron!


----------



## muziksculp

FabioA said:


> I'm afraid that's impossible. The concept of Dimensions was to record individually players that were playing at the same time (and that's totally important to achieve the sound of an ensemble, it could not work recording individual player alone, that would also require infinite time of recordings...)
> The point is that you can't achieve that kind of recording in a nornal studio hall like Synchron!



You have a good point here. Maybe Synchron Chamber Strings might be another option to use for divisi strings.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Anyone hearing 'when' they release more information (raw walkthroughs) on new samples AND player so we can make an informed decision BEFORE the early bird special. I must say their way of doing this release seems wonky.


----------



## Saxer

I think it's the typical "we are nearly ready" and "we are *really* nearly ready" dilemma. And without publishing "we are nearly ready" now the point of "we are *really* nearly ready" will never happen. So they had to publish "we are nearly ready". 

I already preordered.


----------



## shnootre

I'll still take this approach over Spitfire's fake email exchanges, and "It's coming" teasers. The whole point with an early bird special is that they're asking you to take a gamble - you get a deal, and you take a chance. And with VSL's tradition of consistency and quality, I think it's a pretty safe gamble. I just kinda wish I didn't just by the full Chamber Strings bundle during the academic sale (tho it's pretty great anyway.)


----------



## Jack Weaver

I’m as excited about what the new player software can be as much as I am looking forward to the nature of the sound of the new samples themselves. 

Seeing what some developers have come up with recently- such as Embertone and others - there are a lot of great potential improvements in playability on the horizon. I only hope the good folks at VSL incorporated at least some of these things in the Synchron player. 

I don’t mind waiting until they get it right for delivery. 

.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Since I Pre-Ordered VSL Synchron Strings 1 (Full Version), I was curious if I could download the (Standard) version, if that was needed to save SSD space on a PC, so I asked about this on the VSL forums, and Paul of VSL answered my question confirming that, Yes, if you purchase the Full version, you also have the option to download the Standard version. 

I think this is an excellent option that offers additional flexibility from VSL. 

Hope this is helpful info. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## novaburst

Look at these mic position

The one that's interesting and will attract those who compose for movie production, or want a unique sound is the rear mic position I have never seen that before. I can only imagine mixing the music from the rear mic position into the main mix can only add a new dynamic, and feel a lot will co for the full library just for that opportunity and sound advantage, then have a look at the high surround 3D and stereo 3D those are very unique and advanced mic positions
and will give the user a big sound advantage in the correct hands this will be essential and a must for sound engineers.

this has gone another level


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

Rob Elliott said:


> Anyone hearing 'when' they release more information (raw walkthroughs) on new samples AND player so we can make an informed decision BEFORE the early bird special. I must say their way of doing this release seems wonky.


Just some little demos in various genres would do it. Hope they come before the early bird offers expire. Very hard for me to bite into it without any idea what it will taste like.


----------



## muk

It would surprise me if they weren't releasing more demos before the early bird offer expires. The fact that there aren't any apart from the teaser video probably just means that the library wasn't quite ready yet to be sent out to their demo composers. Lets just give them the time they need. That being said, relistening to the trailer I find that the strings don't quite succeed in transporting the excitement the music is supposed to express. They sound a bit tame and laid-back to me. I definitely wait for more demos before making a decision.


----------



## Vik

From https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/m266483findlastpost-Synchron-Strings-I#post266561

"Hello everybody,

There will be more demos, and as usual, our Early Bird Offer will not expire until the release of Synchron Strings I.

And of course there will be a reminder email to announce the actualy release of Synchron Strings I.

Also, thanks for your patience, those last days and weeks are essential for such a big step, especially with a brand-new software. I actually can't wait to show you more, but we're simply not there yet.

Have a great weekend!

Paul & the VSL Team"

That was from two days ago. So since they're not there yet - they can't provide any demos, I guess.


----------



## jamwerks

Just speculation, but I'd imagine that the strings themselves are long ready, but the new Syncron player isn't yet. They went ahead and put out the percussion on the old player, which obviously wasn't meant for multi-microphone samples, but probably would have preferred that the new player been ready back then. Can't wait!


----------



## muk

jamwerks said:


> Just speculation, but I'd imagine that the strings themselves are long ready, but the new Syncron player isn't yet.



Without knowing I think that is unlikely. Firstly, Paul wrote on the VSL forum that they are working with high pressure on finishing the strings. Secondly, it would have been a curious decision to omit the violas from the teaser had they been ready by then. I guess they are working on both at the same time, the strings and the new player.


----------



## novaburst

Is it me or do I feel some tension in the air on the release of this long awaited library, will it be this half of the month or next half, is this the quietness before the storm, do you dear start that new project, will this library offer endless possibility, will it change the way you do things, ah ha so many questions, as the wait........silent wait continues.....Silence across the continent


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts on this thread, they announced a Nov. release for *VSL Sychron Strings 1*, this means any day in Nov.

Given they are trying to finish all the string sections, double check them for quality, and make sure the new *Sychron Player* works great, with this library, and their *Synchron Perc. 1*, I wouldn't be surprised if we had to wait another few weeks for its release. So, let's be patient. I'm sure the reward is big when it is finally released. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Lotias

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts on this thread, they announced a Nov. release for *VSL Sychron Strings 1*, this means any day in Nov.
> 
> Given they are trying to finish all the string sections, double check them for quality, and make sure the new *Sychron Player* works great, with this library, and their *Synchron Perc. 1*, I wouldn't be surprised if we had to wait another few weeks for its release. So, let's be patient. I'm sure the reward is big when it is finally released.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


My opinion is that Synchron will not really offer anything particularly _new_ that changes how you do things (compared to current sample libraries) - rather that it will simply offer far more detail than any other sample library out there. Synchron Percussion showed us that, with a couple new things, but really nothing we haven't seen before - just great sound and incredible detail. With the Synchron Player, things promise to be simpler/more playable than before with VSL, but other than that the main draw of the Synchron Series so far is that every mic position could be usable on its own - it's incredibly consistent, as VSL always is - and it's incredibly detailed.


----------



## jamwerks

They've announced a new feature in articulation management. That could potentially be very cool and time-saving!


----------



## muziksculp

Since we don't know much about their new Synchron Player, and what it will offer, in terms of improvements to realtime playability, smart articulation switching, ..etc. I think we have to wait and see if it is a major game changer, with regards to how we are used to do things.

I also like the idea that we will have options to use the new Synchron Player, or use VI-Pro 2 if the player is not very customizable when compared to what VI-Pro 2 offers.

The other big deal is the Sound of VSL Synchron Strings. I think they will offer a very rich, detailed, and lusher, warmer timbre/character compared to their previous Silent-Stage based libraries, this is a big one for me, something I was dreaming about, and thought it will never happen, but to my delight, it is happening, and now, it's just a matter of days, or weeks away.

Very Exciting times ahead


----------



## novaburst

Lotias said:


> My opinion is that Synchron will not really offer anything particularly _new_ that changes how you do things



I think there is something VSL want you to experience with the Synchron library that the current player is not able to do, I would think or guess there will be a free version and a pro version but I must say VSL is coming with a different approach with the Synchron series


----------



## Lotias

novaburst said:


> I think there is something VSL want you to experience with the Synchron library that the current player is not able to do, I would think or guess there will be a free version and a pro version but I must say VSL is coming with a different approach with the Synchron series


I know that - my point was that I don't think the Synchron Player will introduce anything spectacularly new compared to say, Spitfire's performance patches that combine the legatos and shorts and vibrato and non-vibrato. What it _is _offering is far more detail than any other library.


----------



## ctsai89

Lotias said:


> I know that - my point was that I don't think the Synchron Player will introduce anything spectacularly new compared to say, Spitfire's performance patches that combine the legatos and shorts and vibrato and non-vibrato. What it _is _offering is far more detail than any other library.



Spitfire is also extremely detailed though


----------



## Michael Antrum

I don't know why, but I got the impression that the new Synchron Player would be coming along later, and not be released at the same time as the library, and that it wasn't very clear if it were included in the price or would be charged as an additional item.

Still I'm sure all will become clear ....


----------



## Lotias

ctsai89 said:


> Spitfire is also extremely detailed though


8 layers on (nearly) everything, 10 round robins on sustains, detailed? I am talking about depth in sampling, not depth in articulations. Spitfire doesn't even seem to provide details on that beyond "there are multiple round robins and dynamic layers".


----------



## ctsai89

Lotias said:


> 8 layers on (nearly) everything, 10 round robins on sustains, detailed? I am talking about depth in sampling, not depth in articulations. Spitfire doesn't even seem to provide details on that beyond "there are multiple round robins and dynamic layers".




in terms of the dynamics part I agree. Ok and that is a lot of round robins on sustains. I thought you meant detailed as in you can hear all the bow noises and such. 

But honestly how big of the size of the library will it be? Something worth being afraid of and not exactly in a good way to be honest. 

I honestly love my SSS and have no problems with it besides the weird staccati round robins  And yes I've tested and found that it can do everything that happens in classical music up to very late-romantic period and impressionistic symphonies as well.


----------



## FabioA

ctsai89 said:


> in terms of the dynamics part I agree. Ok and that is a lot of round robins on sustains. I thought you meant detailed as in you can hear all the bow noises and such.
> 
> But honestly how big of the size of the library will it be? Something worth being afraid of and not exactly in a good way to be honest.
> 
> I honestly love my SSS and have no problems with it besides the weird staccati round robins  And yes I've tested and found that it can do everything that happens in classical music up to very late-romantic period and impressionistic symphonies as well.


The interesting fact is that Synchron Percussion Full Library is more than 400 gbs, but with VI Pro (with the buffer at 1526 samples) you can load ALL samples with 2.5 gbs of RAM. How much ram takes s Spitfire violin legato patch (not that other libraries for Kontakt are better than that)? 500mb? 800? And the total size of those libraries is around 100 gbs..
Of course, you need to have samples in an SSD to stream that amount of file at that buffer size, but it sounds incredible to me..


----------



## Lotias

ctsai89 said:


> in terms of the dynamics part I agree. Ok and that is a lot of round robins on sustains. I thought you meant detailed as in you can hear all the bow noises and such.
> 
> But honestly how big of the size of the library will it be? Something worth being afraid of and not exactly in a good way to be honest.
> 
> I honestly love my SSS and have no problems with it besides the weird staccati round robins  And yes I've tested and found that it can do everything that happens in classical music up to very late-romantic period and impressionistic symphonies as well.


Yes, I am sure the sound of SSS is just fine, lol - I was only talking about how much more deeply sampled the Synchron Series is compared to everything else, which I consider to be its main offering over other libraries, aside from VSL's extreme quality control.


----------



## novaburst

Lotias said:


> I know that - my point was that I don't think the Synchron Player will introduce anything spectacularly new compared to say, Spitfire's performance patches that combine the legatos and shorts and vibrato and non-vibrato. What it _is _offering is far more detail than any other library.



I am wondering is this new play suppose to be the successor of Vienna instrument, as Vienna instrument pro is extremely deep, so maybe it will be a makeover


----------



## shnootre

On the VSL site Paul said the Synchron Player will only be for Synchron instruments. VI Pro is already the best sample player out there by a lot - really curious to see what sort of improvements in functionality this Synchron Player offers.


----------



## lucor

FabioA said:


> The interesting fact is that Synchron Percussion Full Library is more than 400 gbs, but with VI Pro (with the buffer at 1526 samples) you can load ALL samples with 2.5 gbs of RAM. How much ram takes s Spitfire violin legato patch (not that other libraries for Kontakt are better than that)? 500mb? 800? And the total size of those libraries is around 100 gbs..
> Of course, you need to have samples in an SSD to stream that amount of file at that buffer size, but it sounds incredible to me..


Wait, so you're saying that you can load literally every instrument with every articulation possible, and it will only take 2.5gbs of RAM as long as the buffer is at 1526? Am I getting that right?


----------



## FabioA

lucor said:


> Wait, so you're saying that you can load literally every instrument with every articulation possible, and it will only take 2.5gbs of RAM as long as the buffer is at 1526? Am I getting that right?


That's what VSL said in their forum, in a thread about synchron percussion. With the free Vienna Instrument Player you need 25 gbs, because the buffer is set to 16000 samples if I'm not wrong.


----------



## Rob Elliott

FabioA said:


> That's what VSL said in their forum, in a thread about synchron percussion. With the free Vienna Instrument Player you need 25 gbs, because the buffer is set to 16000 samples if I'm not wrong.


That's a game changer if true.


----------



## C-Wave

Rob Elliott said:


> That's a game changer if true.


It is true.. has been like that for ever if you use VI Pro, not VI.


----------



## jamwerks

Amazing the Syncron player could be so much better at memory and cpu management than Kontakt. Native Instruments has like 1000 times the development resources!


----------



## C-Wave

VI Pro also has a built-in setup to make it accessible form iOS devices, so the basic elements of the interface works from with an iPAD; sliders, etc..


----------



## Lee Blaske

C-Wave said:


> VI Pro also has a built-in setup to make it accessible form iOS devices, so the basic elements of the interface works from with an iPAD; sliders, etc..


I sure hope the new Synchron player has the ability for iPad control. I use that extensively with my current VSL libraries.


----------



## FabioA

Sorry for the ot.. but these last posts made me wonna try the remote app on my surface (that it's not android) and it seems to work!! Mindblowing..


----------



## muziksculp

FabioA said:


> Sorry for the ot.. but these last posts made me wonna try the remote app on my surface (that it's not android) and it seems to work!! Mindblowing..



Very Cool !


----------



## muziksculp

I have a Lenovo Yoga Pro 2 Laptop, touch screen, I might be able to run their remote app. on it as well.


----------



## FabioA

muziksculp said:


> I have a Lenovo Yoga Pro 2 Laptop, touch screen, I might be able to run their remote app. on it as well.


I would definitely try. I followed the manual, using Chrome as suggested and it went totally smooth..


----------



## muziksculp

FabioA said:


> I would definitely try. I followed the manual, using Chrome as suggested and it went totally smooth..



I agree. It's worth a try. 

Where did you find the remote app. download for your tablet on their website ?


----------



## FabioA

muziksculp said:


> I agree. It's worth a try.
> 
> Where did you find the remote app. download for your tablet on their website ?



It's like a "browser app". So you don't have to install an app at all. The feature is already implemented in VI Pro 2, and you basically just need to add a bookmark in your browser with the right url. I'll send you a pm, I'm afraid I went far to ot :S


----------



## muziksculp

FabioA said:


> It's like a "browser app". So you don't have to install an app at all. The feature is already implemented in VI Pro 2, and you basically just need to add a bookmark in your browser with the right url. I'll send you a pm, I'm afraid I went far to ot :S



Oh.. interesting. I just downloaded the manual from the 'My VSL' section. 

Yes, you can PM me.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## wbacer

muziksculp said:


> Oh.. interesting. I just downloaded the manual from the 'My VSL' section.
> 
> Yes, you can PM me.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


As you'll see in the remote app manual, if you have an iPad, you can add a VI Remote icon to your home screen. Works great. Although the manual is dated 2012 and since the iOS has changed over the years, the setup is a little different than described in the manual but you can still create a VI Pro icon on your home screen.


----------



## C-Wave

They added a second promotional video on this page
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/News/2017-10_Early_Bird_Offer
Recording blue planet II at Synchron Stage


----------



## cadenzajon

C-Wave said:


> They added a second promotional video on this page
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/News/2017-10_Early_Bird_Offer
> Recording blue planet II at Synchron Stage


This was first published about two weeks ago and they featured it elsewhere, but it looks like they just added it to the Synchron Strings page. I guess that's as close to another demo as we'll get this week. *sigh*


----------



## C-Wave

cadenzajon said:


> This was first published about two weeks ago and they featured it elsewhere, but it looks like they just added it to the Synchron Strings page. I guess that's as close to another demo as we'll get this week. *sigh*


Haha.. it also means they are, as we are, desperate to show something


----------



## FriFlo

FabioA said:


> Sorry for the ot.. but these last posts made me wonna try the remote app on my surface (that it's not android) and it seems to work!! Mindblowing..


Could you specify this a little more? First, are you using VIpro directly in Cubase or in VEpro, maybe even a slave PC? Further, what I was missing on that editor software is any way to record keyswitches and controllers on the DAW. It does not seem very helpful to me to be able to control every VIpro instance remotely, if those parameter changes are not recordable within your sequencer ...


----------



## FabioA

FriFlo said:


> Could you specify this a little more? First, are you using VIpro directly in Cubase or in VEpro, maybe even a slave PC? Further, what I was missing on that editor software is any way to record keyswitches and controllers on the DAW. It does not seem very helpful to me to be able to control every VIpro instance remotely, if those parameter changes are not recordable within your sequencer ...



Hi!
I 'm using VIPro (so as Play and Kontakt instances) within VEPro. Everything runs on a single PC. But you could also run VI Pro both in the DAW and in VEPro, and you could still control both istances, just having 2 different Remote APP opened in your browser (every app will connect to the right istance with the specific IP).

After a couple of days with VIPro remote App, I can tell you it does exactly what you are expecting from such a remote control.
It definitely records those parameters in your sequencer. That was a question of mine too, when I tried it for the first time. When you press a cell of the matrix on your touch screen, it records on your midi track all the keys and cc needed to select that cell. Of course, you have to start the recording in your sequencer, as you do if you want record keyswitches from your keyboard. 
What is great, is that with a single gesture (dragging on your tablet), you can then play a note in a midi track and the App will show you the matrix of that specific instrument. So you don't need to scroll instruments in VEPro anymore.


----------



## FriFlo

FabioA said:


> Hi!
> I 'm using VIPro (so as Play and Kontakt instances) within VEPro. Everything runs on a single PC. But you could also run VI Pro both in the DAW and in VEPro, and you could still control both istances, just having 2 different Remote APP opened in your browser (every app will connect to the right istance with the specific IP).
> 
> After a couple of days with VIPro remote App, I can tell you it does exactly what you are expecting from such a remote control.
> It definitely records those parameters in your sequencer. That was a question of mine too, when I tried it for the first time. When you press a cell of the matrix on your touch screen, it records on your midi track all the keys and cc needed to select that cell. Of course, you have to start the recording in your sequencer, as you do if you want record keyswitches from your keyboard.
> What is great, is that with a single gesture (dragging on your tablet), you can then play a note in a midi track and the App will show you the matrix of that specific instrument. So you don't need to scroll instruments in VEPro anymore.


That sounds good! The last time I tried this app, it sent automation directly to the VIpro instance selected. So, I assumed it would be possible to record automation on a write enabled VEpro track instrument in Cubase. However, I thought it would not be possible to record conventional midi data (CCs and Notes) to a Cubase midi track (not instrument track!). Actually, I am still not quite clear on how that would work now!? Does it have a virtual midi port you have to enable in Cubase? Well, it seems this app has advanced quite a bit from its beginnings. I will check it out once more, soon.


----------



## C-Wave

On a VSL forum thread, Paul from VSL commented on the new Synchron player:
“The Synchron Player will work for Synchron Series products exclusively. Other libraries will have to be adapted to this new system (with quite some effort). We have not made any decisions there yet..”


----------



## muk

Paul wrote that demos and more information were coming soon. Hopefully soon enough for the super early bird offer, because I am not going to buy this library (or any library) unheard. I want to know what kind of sound they offer to decide if I actually need it.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I think they probably announced it a little too early, and I get the impression it's a little behind schedule. VSL aren't fools, and I'm sure that they will have a few demos out before they end the specials offers - but it will all be a little later than expected.


----------



## Eptesicus

I am very tempted by this, but will echo the above. I need a lot more information and want to hear more demos. 

The demo they currently have is worthless really. The percussion overpowers it and it is only violin and celli. 

I would really like to hear the whole ensemble playing together.


----------



## ChristianM

I have my activation code… I wait for files to download


----------



## NoamL

What advantages will the Synchron player have over Kontakt? Any hints on that? I hope this isn’t another PLAY situation.


----------



## ctsai89

Will synchron have whole ensemble patches for sketching?


----------



## FabioA

ctsai89 said:


> Will synchron have whole ensemble patches for sketching?


I don't think a strings library with 8 velocity layers and 10 variations for key is the one I would choose for sketching, so I don't expect to see a light ensemble patch like that.
I'm not saying ensemble patches for sketching are not important, on the contrary, but I think we already have plenty of suitable libraries for that purpose.


----------



## FabioA

Bye the way, Vsl orchestral Strings has it, Appassionata Strings has it, so it could be, because people always asks for that..


----------



## jamwerks

These are of course sections recorded separately, and in VI Pro we could already create our own ensemble patches by combining, setting ranges, etc. Synchron would most likely have some precooked patches seeing as they are so useful, with no additional gb's required.


----------



## Sovereign

Took the bait and pre-ordered these, even tough I'm quite happy with CSS at the moment. You can never have enough strings.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Sovereign said:


> Took the bait and pre-ordered these, even tough I'm quite happy with CSS at the moment. You can never have enough strings.


My 'gut' says I'll order BUT really need more detailed walkthroughs on the samples AND the new player. Anyone hearing any rumblings of new vids being released?


----------



## Sovereign

Rob Elliott said:


> My 'gut' says I'll order BUT really need more detailed walkthroughs on the samples AND the new player. Anyone hearing any rumblings of new vids being released?


From the VSL forum: "More information and also more demos should be available soon (I know that has been quite a stretch), and I'd like to thank you all for your patience. Those last tweaks are SO important, and our standards are higher than ever."


----------



## muk

Paul mentioned on the VSL forum that the new Synchron Player will come for free with all Synchron libs. Nice. As for demos for Synchron Strings, they are a long time in coming.


----------



## jamwerks

No November release?


----------



## muk

jamwerks said:


> No November release?



So far VSL hasn't communicated otherwise. They still seem to be aiming for a November release. And as far as I know VSL usually met their announcements.


----------



## ctsai89

not even thanksgiving yet! maybe they are at hard work right now before going back home to see their families during the holidays. Expect to be released by then?

edit: oh wait VSL isn't an American company..


----------



## Nicola74

ChristianM said:


> I have my activation code… I wait for files to download


Hi Christian,

Are you downloading Synchron Strings I? In MyVSL I didn't find anything...


----------



## Saxer

Nicola74 said:


> Hi Christian,
> 
> Are you downloading Synchron Strings I? In MyVSL I didn't find anything...


He is waiting for the files to download until they are ready and published.


----------



## kimarnesen

So they really expect people to buy a product with no demos or walkthroughs?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

kimarnesen said:


> So they really expect people to buy a product with no demos or walkthroughs?



Yeah. For a dicsounted price off the discounted price.

Nobody has to buy it. It's an "early bird" offer. When that expires and the lib is released, there will still be an introductory offer.


----------



## Prockamanisc

kimarnesen said:


> So they really expect people to buy a product with no demos or walkthroughs?


Not really, they're just making us aware of it. The discount will still be around when there are more demos.


----------



## novaburst

kimarnesen said:


> So they really expect people to buy a product with no demos or walkthroughs?



Even with out a demo still feel it's a wise chose to grab it while it's at that price.

I think it will be a great addition to the strings library.


----------



## Rob Elliott

novaburst said:


> Even with out a demo still feel it's a wise chose to grab it while it's at that price.
> 
> I think it will be a great addition to the strings library.


I admire you faith on this. Too chicken myself to do the same. Just too many libraries on my SSD's that just sit there for one reason or another. But still hopeful on this upcoming release. Eagerly await walkthroughs with new player.


----------



## artinro

Prockamanisc said:


> Not really, they're just making us aware of it. The discount will still be around when there are more demos.



Exactly. From what I understand, VSL have promised more info and demos before the early bird expires. That being the case, I see no benefit to purchasing at the moment. It’s a risk with no reward.


----------



## novaburst

Rob Elliott said:


> I admire you faith on this


Hahaha no don't think it's faith, I think I just like their approach to their products, I have never owned or heard anything bad from VSL, I just don't think this one is going to be the start of their bad library's on the contrary it's another new approach, perhaps not their best library as I am not sure what can top their dimension series that one's pretty hard to beat perhaps the best on the planet, 

I can see that with the synchron products they have gone another level yet again what with the new player it can only mean plus.


----------



## kimarnesen

novaburst said:


> Hahaha no don't think it's faith, I think I just like their approach to their products, I have never owned or heard anything bad from VSL, I just don't think this one is going to be the start of their bad library's on the contrary it's another new approach, perhaps not their best library as I am not sure what can top their dimension series that one's pretty hard to beat perhaps the best on the planet,
> 
> I can see that with the synchron products they have gone another level yet again what with the new player it can only mean plus.



Probably not bad, but useful for my music? Useful for combination with my other libraries? There is really no way to know. It's a bit rude to tempt customers with an early bird offer without really knowing anything about the product.


----------



## muk

Another bit of info from the VSL forum:

the estimated harddrive space used is 200GB for standard, and 400GB for the full library. Stefan mentioned that these are rough estimates that can change for the final product.


----------



## cadenzajon

I'm extremely curious what their sampling & performance plans are for short articulations. On their list of recorded articulations they just describe them as "short notes" vs. the traditional spiccato/staccato/sforzando/portato recordings. Judging by their (lack of) details in this area, it seems like they may have some innovation up their sleeve... has anyone else heard more details about this?


----------



## jamwerks

Their old time stretch in VI Pro let you make longer or shorter notes. Also Spitfire has a feature where you can make short notes shorter by moving to the releases quicker. I'd imagine it's something like that. Synchron Percussion already had new release trigger technology that sounds very musical.


----------



## cadenzajon

Still, it's pretty ballsy not to record individual articulations for various lengths; they must be pretty confident in their ability to make them sound decent.


----------



## Eptesicus

400-500gb for the full library...blimey!


----------



## Rob Elliott

Eptesicus said:


> 400-500gb for the full library...blimey!


Hope that includes the mics for the studio lobby.


----------



## ChristianM

Nicola74 said:


> Hi Christian,
> 
> Are you downloading Synchron Strings I? In MyVSL I didn't find anything...



and no… :-(


----------



## NoamL

Rob Elliott said:


> Hope that includes the mics for the studio lobby.



They have a full complement of mics - Close, Tree, Hall, _Really_ Cheap Seats, and Uber Didn't Get You There In Time


----------



## rottoy

NoamL said:


> They have a full complement of mics - Close, Tree, Hall, _Really_ Cheap Seats, and Uber Didn't Get You There In Time


I really want that "Behind A Supporting Pillar Auditorium Seat" mic position.


----------



## NoamL

No joke - recently I was in Benaroya (the EWQLSO hall, if the Internet can be trusted  !) working on a piece with orchestra and choir. The conductor had me running around all the ground floor seating checking the balance from different perspectives. The hall seemed rather small to me for a symphony hall... at least in the harsh light of day!... but it was amazing how different the auditory experience was, especially clarity and balance, from different seats. It gave me a new appreciation for Zimmer's practice of seating the violins in the mirror arrangement. One can imagine in a theater (not Atmos or IMAX) where a typical theater goer might be sitting in a skewed triangle with the L and R speakers where the distance to L is 10 or 20 feet further than R...


----------



## Nicola74

ChristianM said:


> and no… :-(


Aaaargh! I am so curious, I am sure I will love this library, as every other library from VSL


----------



## novaburst

Nicola74 said:


> I am so curious



Yes waiting for this release does bring on curiosity, suspense, excitement,the stillness before the storm.


----------



## Sovereign

Although I pre-ordered it's somewhat frustrating there are no new demos yet. I'm really getting curious now how it sounds after listening to the soundtrack of Blue Planet II.


----------



## FabioA

Sovereign said:


> Although I pre-ordered it's somewhat frustrating there are no new demos yet. I'm really getting curious now how it sounds after listening to the soundtrack of Blue Planet II.


The soundtrack fo Blue Planet II is actually a mock-up made with Synchron Series Liberies...ahah just jocking sorry :D


----------



## dhlkid

I won't place my order unless ..... I need to listen the demosssss


----------



## Arbee

My wallet is torn between CSS and Synchron Strings so I'll wait until I hear more demos, even if I have to pay a little more and miss the early bird offer.....


----------



## Pablocrespo

Any news? CSS deal is looking very tempting...come on VSL tease us a little!


----------



## novaburst

Pablocrespo said:


> Any news? CSS deal is looking very tempting...come on VSL tease us a little!



CSS is proven ground so why don't you go for it, the Synchron is not proven so your better off with CSS


----------



## muk

novaburst said:


> CSS is proven ground so why don't you go for it, the Synchron is not proven so your better off with CSS



It depends on what you are looking for. CSS has a very particular sound, dark and lush à la old Hollywood movie soundtracks. If that is what you need then CSS is an excellent choice. Synchron Strings on the other hand will most probably have a more classical, less specialized sound signature. So, despite both being strings sample libraries my best guess is that they will have slightly different uses.


----------



## Casiquire

I'd sur that despite the new system, VSL is more proven than almost anyone. Their new products are always quality and shockingly low on bugs.


----------



## novaburst

muk said:


> It depends on what you are looking for. CSS has a very particular sound, dark and lush à la old



From what I am hearing from users it is a sound that does not disappoint,


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> From what I am hearing from users it is a sound that does not disappoint,



I've seen people complain about it. I myself think it's a great library.


----------



## muk

novaburst said:


> From what I am hearing from users it is a sound that does not disappoint,



It certainly does not disappoint - far from it. But it is not a jack of all trades. If you need a romantic hollywood sound with distinct vibrato it is just lovely. If you want something more classical - for concert music, for example - with more controlled vibrato, CSS is less suitable.


----------



## Rob Elliott

muk said:


> It depends on what you are looking for. CSS has a very particular sound, dark and lush à la old Hollywood movie soundtracks. If that is what you need then CSS is an excellent choice. Synchron Strings on the other hand will most probably have a more classical, less specialized sound signature. So, despite both being strings sample libraries my best guess is that they will have slightly different uses.


You are probably right but I hope the library is not limited to only 'classical' uses - that it will be useful in more modern scoring applications. My gut it with the new room and what their customers have been saying for years that it will have wider uses/applications.


----------



## muk

Rob Elliott said:


> ut I hope the library is not limited to only 'classical' uses - that it will be useful in more modern scoring applications. My gut it with the new room and what their customers have been saying for years that it will have wider uses/applications.



I hope so too. Ideally it would have a nice sound that is useable in a wide variety of styles. Berlin Strings seems to be great in that regard From what I have heard from the Synchron Stage so far I hope it can be similar with Synchron Strings. But we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## jamwerks

With the boss at VSL being a string player, I'm betting (and hoping) that their strings will cover at lot of ground, sound & technic wise!


----------



## Vik

Seems like a bad idea not to demo more than the little short clips we have seen - if the release still is set to November and since it's Black Friday. If they have something good to show, why not do it before we have spent our money on Black Friday offers from others?


----------



## Pablocrespo

Yes. I can’t understand it either, lots of string deals look tempting and still waiting to see what synchron brings to the table. 

Hurry up VSL I want to give you some money!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Vik said:


> Seems like a bad idea not to demo more than the little short clips we have seen - if the release still is set to November and since it's Black Friday. If they have something good to show, why not do it before we have spent our money on Black Friday offers from others?



It's not ready - that's why.


----------



## Vik

mikeybabes said:


> It's not ready - that's why.


That's of course fair, but since the release is/was planned for November, I'm a little surprised that/if they dont have anything to show us.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Well, it's put me in a spot because of the really good pricing on the Spitfire Black Friday deal on SCS, SSS & SS Evolution. I'm very tempted to buy it.....


----------



## novaburst

Vik said:


> That's of course fair, but since the release is/was planned for November, I'm a little surprised that/if they dont have anything to show us.



And what would you prefer a rushed library, and complain about bugs and things not working or a finished product that took later than expected, 

Last thing you want to do is rush things through and have all your team stressed out and taking sick leave


----------



## Sid Francis

A dumb question: the sound of the HZ video was a REAL orchestra, wasn´t it? Otherwise my jaw would drop very low.....

Edit: ah okay:just to demo the synchro stage, okay. If a library will be able to sound this way, I will eventually forge out 800€ for it. Its just such a difference....


----------



## Eptesicus

Sid Francis said:


> A dumb question: the sound of the HZ video was a REAL orchestra, wasn´t it? Otherwise my jaw would drop very low.....
> 
> Edit: ah okay:just to demo the synchro stage, okay. If a library will be able to sound this way, I will eventually forge out 800€ for it. Its just such a difference....



haha, that would be incredible but no that was the string stem from the Blue Planet 2 soundtrack main theme.

i would love them to do a mock up of that with the library though to see how realistic it sounds.


----------



## Jack Weaver

Eptesicus said:


> that was the string stem from the Blue Planet 2 soundtrack main theme.
> 
> i would love them to do a mock up of that with the library though to see how realistic it sounds.



Actually that is a reasonable request, given that they posted it as an example of how their room sounds - as a reflection of the quality of their upcoming product and how they want us to think of it. 

Now, we all know that virtual strings don't (usually) sound as good recorded ones _and we should be expected to take that into consideration._ But wouldn't this give users a very realistic example of what to expect? Their using it as an example was an attempt on their part to impart that the qualities of that clip reflect positively on their new library. 

.


----------



## erica-grace

Sure, that would be nice to hear, but that's really painting themselves into a corner. If they do such a great job with the mockup, people are going to say, "well, most of the rest of us do not have those mockup abilities, so, what's it _really sound like_?" Or, if they scale it back a bit, to be more in line with what most people can do, then the mockup won't sound as good as it could, and then people are going to say, "is that really as good as it gets?"


----------



## Jack Weaver

erica-grace said:


> Sure, that would be nice to hear, but that's really painting themselves into a corner. If they do such a great job with the mockup, people are going to say, "well, most of the rest of us do not have those mockup abilities, so, what's it _really sound like_?" Or, if they scale it back a bit, to be more in line with what most people can do, then the mockup won't sound as good as it could, and then people are going to say, "is that really as good as it gets?"


I think the honest answer is that virtual instrument developers as a whole wish to avoid the true distance between real and sampled instruments.

It's too bad the VSL chose to attempt to have potential customers conflate the quality of real instruments in their room with the end product of sampled and then edited instruments in the same room. I do understand that they are proud of their new room - that's understandable.

It was a bit of a minor marketing boo-boo. Even a poster in this thread needed to ask whether it was samples or a real recording. Overall I think VSL should be forgiven this little transgression. I'm sure it was simply enthusiasm on the part of a marketing individual.

I don't really expect them to take up this challenge. It would be a fool's task. (Although come on now, wouldn't we _all_ like to hear this?)

I'm sure that it was a well meaning attempt at marketing in lieu of being able to actually provide meaningful demos of a product that they've pre-announced prematurely.

I'll also wager that all will be forgiven if they provide a library that's Heaven on Earth. They have a lot riding on this offering. They will release it when it meets their expectations. I hope their vision and its realization meet my hopes. I know that their effort and quality control always do. The delivering of a decent amount of the the last two sentences will cause me to buy it.

Personally, I don't mind if they wait six months if what they come out with is a good as I hope it can be.

.


----------



## Phillip

Nothing will ever meet our expectation because our expectation grow with each breakthrough in sampling technology


----------



## artinro

VSl have quietly updated the Synchron page to say December release now.


----------



## Sovereign

artinro said:


> VSl have quietly updated the Synchron page to say December release now.


I demand a public hanging of those responsible.


----------



## Eptesicus

artinro said:


> VSl have quietly updated the Synchron page to say December release now.



that is a bit rubbish for those that have bought it already (ie me :( )


----------



## Eptesicus

December release, and coming in dribs and drabs now...


----------



## Rob Elliott

So hoping the delays are to squeeze out the last 2% and NOT figuring out the last 20%. Thinking it is the former but we shall see.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I'm glad they didn't rush it out. They did the right thing, release it when it is ready ! 

Looking forward to a December release of _VSL Synchron Strings I_ . 

Let's not forget that they are also releasing the new* VSL Synchron Player*, which might have needed some more tweaking/perfecting, I doubt that they are still recording/editing the instruments. Plus, the Synchron Player might also have to work with their _Synchron Perc. I_ Library when it is released. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## novaburst

artinro said:


> VSl have quietly updated the Synchron page to say December release now.



This is great news, it means you don't get a incomplete product.


----------



## artinro

novaburst said:


> This is great news, it means you don't get a incomplete product.



I think it's great that they're taking the time to get it just how they want it before releasing. 100%. That said, the rollout has been a bit strange, imho... almost no communication from them and yet another example of why not to announce release dates.


----------



## erica-grace

novaburst said:


> This is great news, it means you don't get a incomplete product.



Agree with this 100%



artinro said:


> yet another example of why not to announce release dates.



Agree with this 100% as well!


----------



## ChristianM

Vienna was acquired by Virharmonic ? 
Okay, I'm going out…


----------



## cadenzajon

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> They did the right thing, release it when it is ready !



But they did the wrong thing in accepting preorders & payment for a library when promising a release date that they couldn't guarantee.


----------



## Christof

cadenzajon said:


> But they did the wrong thing in accepting preorders & payment for a library when promising a release date that they couldn't guarantee.


Well, a December release is just a matter of a few weeks or days, depending on their decision I suppose.
In July 2018 you won't even remember when it was released.
I am happy to see how they care for the best quality.

Look at Apple, how many people pre-ordered the iPhone X?
Some have to wait months to receive their device.


----------



## novaburst

artinro said:


> I think it's great that they're taking the time to get it just how they want it before releasing. 100%. That said, the rollout has been a bit strange, imho... almost no communication from them and yet another example of why not to announce release dates.



I understand what your saying, but if there is nothing to say why say it, 

It may not even be about getting it right but it could be meeting a certain standard.

I do believe if they wanted to they could have released it a long time ago as some developers do this and get the back lash of unsatisfied customers, and then spend the rest of 2018 with fixes and updates.


----------



## muziksculp

I think an official statement from VSL regarding the delayed Dec. release , with a simple appreciation, and Thank You to all who pre-ordered VSL Synchron Strings I, would be a nice gesture at this point. 

If they decide to not do that, and feel that just changing the release date from Nov. to Dec. is good enough, then that's their choice, but it is always nice to hear from the developer when they promise something, but can't deliver (on time) like in this case.


----------



## jamwerks

There would be lots to say if they choose to. New sampler and new strings!! Does seem like kind of a strange roll-out.


----------



## Prockamanisc

muziksculp said:


> I think an official statement from VSL regarding the delayed Dec. release , with a simple appreciation, and Thank You to all who pre-ordered VSL Synchron Strings I, would be a nice gesture at this point.


_
Hello everybody!

So our web-admin was faster than me, and forgot to tell me about the update on the front page. Sorry about that, we did not want to annoy you. 

We actually wanted to express how much we appreciate the excitement, your friendliness and also the professional discussions, before we can finally give you a status update. We are thrilled to see how many of you already went for the Early Bird Offer, and that makes us want to fulfill the high expectations we all have for this product even more!

We are sorry for the long silence, and everybody here worked very hard to avoid this announcement, but we do need more time to take the last steps from great to outstanding.

As soon as the first parts of Synchron Strings I are completed, we’ll make them available to you.
This will be in December, at the earliest possible date, you will definitely be ready for a great-sounding 2018! 

We’ll continue the current Early Bird Pricing for the time being, and we’ll keep you in the loop regarding release schedule, pricing and of course demos. 

THANK YOU for your trust in us!

Paul and your team in Vienna_


----------



## Prockamanisc

I, for one, could care less that they're pushing it back. So I have to wait an extra week, so what? If anything, it makes me respect VSL even more (if that's even possible) because they're standing by their promise of superior products instead of their promise of release dates.


----------



## Christof

muziksculp said:


> I think an official statement from VSL regarding the delayed Dec. release , with a simple appreciation, and Thank You to all who pre-ordered VSL Synchron Strings I, would be a nice gesture at this point.
> 
> If they decide to not do that, and feel that just changing the release date from Nov. to Dec. is good enough, then that's their choice, but it is always nice to hear from the developer when they promise something, but can't deliver (on time) like in this case.


Did you get their newsletter today?
More or less the same content as their statement in their forum:

_Hello everybody!

So our web-admin was faster than me, and forgot to tell me about the update on the front page. Sorry about that, we did not want to annoy you. 

We actually wanted to express how much we appreciate the excitement, your friendliness and also the professional discussions, before we can finally give you a status update. We are thrilled to see how many of you already went for the Early Bird Offer, and that makes us want to fulfill the high expectations we all have for this product even more!

We are sorry for the long silence, and everybody here worked very hard to avoid this announcement, but we do need more time to take the last steps from great to outstanding.

As soon as the first parts of Synchron Strings I are completed, we’ll make them available to you.
This will be in December, at the earliest possible date, you will definitely be ready for a great-sounding 2018! 

We’ll continue the current Early Bird Pricing for the time being, and we’ll keep you in the loop regarding release schedule, pricing and of course demos. 

THANK YOU for your trust in us!

Paul and your team in Vienna_


----------



## muziksculp

Paul of VSL says Quote "_As soon as the first parts of Synchron Strings I are completed, we’ll make them available to you.
This will be in December, at the earliest possible date, you will definitely be ready for a great-sounding 2018! "_

I wonder if they will be releasing only some parts of it in Dec. , and the remaining parts in Jan. 2018 ?


----------



## muziksculp

@Christof,

No I didn't receive their newsletter yet. I get my news mostly from this forum


----------



## Eptesicus

To be honest, while i appreciate they want it at its best, taking peoples money and promising a November release only to tell them 3 days before November ends that it will be December, maybe 2018 and released in bits is really taking the ****.


----------



## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> To be honest, while i appreciate they want it at its best, taking peoples money and promising a November release only to tell them 3 days before November ends that it will be December, maybe 2018 and released in bits is really taking the ****.



Don't forget that they are giving us an opportunity to buy it at 30% Off during the Early Bird period. You can always pay Zero $ , and wait until it is released, but you will pay full price.


----------



## Rob Elliott

muziksculp said:


> Paul of VSL says Quote "_As soon as the first parts of Synchron Strings I are completed, we’ll make them available to you.
> This will be in December, at the earliest possible date, you will definitely be ready for a great-sounding 2018! "_
> 
> I wonder if they will be releasing only some parts of it in Dec. , and the remaining parts in Jan. 2018 ?


I would expect 'parts' only. Which again is ok -I would much rather have it right then wait upon 'hotfixes' that always take too long. This newsletter released today actually gives me MORE confidence in what to expect. I am still NOT going to buy early bird without naked walkthroughs but I am starting to be more positive about this.


----------



## fiestared

ChristianM said:


> Vienna was acquired by Virharmonic ?
> Okay, I'm going out…


L'arlésienne...


----------



## muziksculp

Rob Elliott said:


> I would expect 'parts' only. Which again is ok -I would much rather have it right then wait upon 'hotfixes' that always take too long. This newsletter released today actually gives me MORE confidence in what to expect. I am still NOT going to buy early bird without naked walkthroughs but I am starting to be more positive about this.



I'm totally in agreement, and fine with waiting for its release be it in parts, or in one big chunk in Jan. , I would rather be super happy, and delighted with this top of the line strings library from VSL, than half satisfied because they rushed it. 

It is totally worth the wait. I'm very confident about that.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Don't forget that they are giving us an opportunity to buy it at 30% Off during the Early Bird period. You can always pay Zero $ , and wait until it is released, but you will pay full price.



The pre-order was the most baffling part of this rollout. Paul (on the VSL forum) said demos would be made available PRIOR to the pre-order ending. Paul's a straight-shooter, so I take him at his word there. That being the case, since there are no demos currently posted, what is the benefit of ordering right now? This is currently a pre-order without any incentive.


----------



## cadenzajon

artinro said:


> That being the case, since there are no demos currently posted, what is the benefit of ordering right now? This is currently a pre-order without any incentive.



Just wait... VSL Synchron Brass purchase opportunities coming soon via Kickstarter.com!


----------



## jamwerks

VSL isn't EWQL, or we'd have to be asking November of what year?


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> The pre-order was the most baffling part of this rollout. Paul (on the VSL forum) said demos would be made available PRIOR to the pre-order ending. Paul's a straight-shooter, so I take him at his word there. That being the case, since there are no demos currently posted, what is the benefit of ordering right now? This is currently a pre-order without any incentive.



30% Off is the incentive of the Pre-Order.

Demos, videos, more info. will be released when they are ready, so you need to be patient, that's the bottom line here. If you don't want to Pre-Order, and save 30%, you can order it when it is fully released, and all the demos, videos, and third-party reviews, are out for you to better evaluate it, then purchase it at full price.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I think they will extend the preorder until some more demos are available. I am kind of counting on it


----------



## Saxer

When I preordered Dimension Strings in 2014 only the violins where out. The next sections should follow in the following few month. It took more than one and a half year for the complete sections. I hope Synchron Strings will be a bit faster.


----------



## Rob Elliott

I bet we'll see more in the way of walkthroughs before the early bird expires.


----------



## muziksculp

Saxer said:


> When I preordered Dimension Strings in 2014 only the violins where out. The next sections should follow in the following few month. It took more than one and a half year for the complete sections. I hope Synchron Strings will be a bit faster.



I remember that as well. Hoping that this is not the scenario with Synchron Strings I . , I would like to have the full library on my SSD by end of Jan. 2018 the latest


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> 30% Off is the incentive of the Pre-Order.
> 
> Demos, videos, more info. will be released when they are ready, so you need to be patient, that's the bottom line here. If you don't want to Pre-Order, and save 30%, you can order it when it is fully released, and all the demos, videos, and third-party reviews, are out for you to better evaluate it, then purchase it at full price.



You misunderstood my point. 

It's not that 30% off is a poor incentive, it's that at this moment, there is no reason to pre-order. As I said, demos will be released PRIOR to the pre-order ending. Paul has confirmed this. So, I don't understand the point in ordering now, before additional information (demos included) are released. In other words, one can wait to hear demos, feel comfortable in that this product is all we hope it will be, and then still take advantage of the pre-order at that time. Don't you want as much information as possible before making a purchase? I sure do.


----------



## Saxer

artinro said:


> This is currently a pre-order without any incentive.


A bit of gambling is part of the fun.


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> You misunderstood my point.
> 
> It's not that 30% off is a poor incentive, it's that at this moment, there is no reason to pre-order. As I said, demos will be released PRIOR to the pre-order ending. Paul has confirmed this. So, I don't understand the point in ordering now, before additional information (demos included) are released. In other words, one can wait to hear demos, feel comfortable in that this product is all we hope it will be, and then still take advantage of the pre-order at that time. Don't you want as much information as possible before making a purchase? I sure do.



Yes, surely you can wait until they release more demos, and videos, info. ..etc. during the Pre-Order period, that's a wise decision, I see no reason to rush to Pre-Order it, I don't think they will end the early-bird offer until it is fully released. 

I'm personally very confident in VSL's ability to produce a super-high quality strings library recorded in their new Synchron Stage, so I Pre-Ordered, and I'm ok with that, and the long wait until it is fully released, even though they didn't release much info, videos, and demos yet.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Yes, surely you can wait until they release more demos, and videos, info. ..etc. during the Pre-Order period, that's a wise decision, I see no reason to rush to Pre-Order it, I don't think they will end the early-bird offer until it is fully released.
> 
> I'm personally very confident in VSL's ability to produce a super-high quality strings library recorded in their new Synchron Stage, so I Pre-Ordered, and I'm ok with that, and the long wait until it is fully released, even though they didn't release much info, videos, and demos yet.



That's fair. For the record, I have great faith in VSL too; I've been a customer since the cube. I'm confident they'll produce something great, but I'd still like to hear it a bit before jumping on board. If Paul had said "demos may not be available before the pre-order ends," I probably would have taken the risk.


----------



## muziksculp

Saxer said:


> A bit of gambling is part of the fun.



Yes, Gambling is part of the fun, but honestly Gambling is the last thing I think of when I buy a VSL Product, and the fact they recorded this library in their Synchron Stage is what has me all bubbly, and very excited this time around. I wish they had this stage 10+ years ago when they started.


----------



## jamwerks

Yeah the Dimension strings roll-out took forever. Made me think they really had only one guy doing the editing. And it's even been quite a while since the Syncron Percussion launch. At this rate a full Syncron orchestra could take 4 years to complete. I'm hoping that they'll soon be able to pick up the pace! You'd think they'd be madly hiring editors. Spitfire has like 30 people working there...


----------



## Prockamanisc

artinro said:


> This is currently a pre-order without any incentive.


Unless you consider compounding it with their buy-2-get-1 sale (which I totally did). I think the best thing I did was purchase Synchron Strings weeks ago because it saved me from having to think about it for the rest of the month. I know it'll be great, and I'll have it when it's ready. No other effort is required of me (except, perhaps, defending the company from criticism on this forum).


----------



## Vik

I just read this on their forum: "you can return any product that you order in the VSL Online Store within one month after your purchase". So if someone regrets having ordered it without getting it at the original release date, I guess they can cancel the purchase even before it's released. 
That's a great policy, btw, because it actually means that one can buy it, check it out in a fully functional version for a month, and then decide if one wants to keep it or not. If only all the library makers would have that policy!


----------



## muziksculp

Vik said:


> I just read this on their forum: "you can return any product that you order in the VSL Online Store within one month after your purchase". So if someone regrets having ordered it without getting it at the original release date, I guess they can cancel the purchase even before it's released.
> That's a great policy, btw, because it actually means that one can buy it, check it out in a fully functional version for a month, and then decide if one wants to keep it or not. If only all the library makers would have that policy!



Thanks for letting us know about this. I wasn't aware they had this option.


----------



## FabioA

About demos..
After all this years we should have learned that demos says very little about the quality of the product. 
According to demos, almost every library on this earth is great sounding. It's like merry a woman according to her fb profile pictures.
Then you start playing on it, and you find out how inconsistent it is.
The 30 days refund is the key here..


----------



## maestro2be

There's nothing scary about the Dimension Strings release times. They told us during that release that it's violins and and I believe we got Celli at the same time (might have just been violins). Then every section "as they come" with no hard dates set on them that I recall. You just waited until they completed them.

In this one, they are actually telling us that every section will be coming at once. I own basically every VSL instrument they have and I have never found "birds chirping" or "sections of coughing and banging into music stands" as I find in all other sample libraries. To me, VSL has to be the most trusted sample library creator on the planet. I am extremely pleased to hear they will have some room sound in there libraries now.

I bought these the moment I seen an email from them and hadn't even listened. We all know that you are all going to buy these no matter how much you try to talk yourself out of it  lol! But go ahead and keep telling yourself you are going to resist, that way you won't have any anxiety and can just rip out your credit card the day someone posts on this forum that they are released.


----------



## cadenzajon

I just got the following email... which I find particularly ominous due to the use of a small phrase I have highlighted in bold below.


Dear Vienna Newsletter Subscriber,

We’d like to let you know about the status of our upcoming new product, _Synchron Strings I_.

We’re thrilled that many of you are eagerly anticipating our first string library recorded at Synchron Stage Vienna. And we’re thankful that so many of you took advantage of our Early Bird Offer.

As it sometimes happens, things are taking a little longer than expected. We’re committed to offering you the best product we can possibly achieve, and we need a bit more time to do so. As soon as *the first parts of* _Synchron Strings I_ are completed in December, 2017, we’ll make them available to you.

We’ll continue the current Early Bird Pricing for the time being, and rest assured that we’ll communicate our release and pricing schedule in a timely fashion. Thank you for your trust in us as we continue to work on a product that lives up to the very high standards you’ve come to expect from us.


----------



## dhlkid

i think the first part could be Violin 1 & Cello ....


----------



## jamwerks

There was some talk earlier about an advanced (smart) articulation system, maybe something like the SF performance patch. That might be the "bit" that's not yet ready for prime time.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I think a clarification of "the first parts" is needed. If you buy a library you should be able to know if it will be delivered in full or in parts. Some people have already bought this without knowing this detail.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Pablocrespo said:


> I think a clarification of "the first parts" is needed. If you buy a library you should be able to know if it will be delivered in full or in parts. Some people have already bought this without knowing this detail.



Agreed. One of the reasons I bought it was because VSL made it clear that it was indeed the _complete_ string orchestra, and not only certain sections of it. Now it suddenly seems exactly the opposite. The reason why I went for the deal was because they confirmed that the library would be availabe in its entirety at release. I would have _never_ signed up for a DS-like release debacle beforehand.


----------



## Vik

Maybe "As soon as the first parts of Synchron Strings I are completed in December, 2017, we’ll make them available to you" is another postponement? It was supposed to be released in November, then in December, but the latest news is that it won't be fully released in December either? I don't know what SS2 will bring (extra mic positions?), but my guess is that SS1 still is a complete library as advertised, only that they won't be able to release it fully in December. They should be more clear about this.


----------



## novaburst

This String product has created quite a snow ball, more so than the percussion release, 

Has the string passion reignited as I was sensing a big lean towards percussion and hybrid library's,


----------



## muziksculp

Pablocrespo said:


> I think a clarification of "the first parts" is needed. If you buy a library you should be able to know if it will be delivered in full or in parts. Some people have already bought this without knowing this detail.



I agree, I don't think it is too much to ask VSL to clarify, and be a bit more specific about this type of details. Being vague is not the most helpful feedback.


----------



## novaburst

They may just give the bows in the first part then the violins in the second part....

Come guys what is is what is they have given an update on what's going on, I guess you need to remember this Synchron series is a very new approach to VSL, I can only imagine strings must be much more difficult to complete than say percussion,


----------



## Saxer

novaburst said:


> They may just give the bows in the first part then the violins in the second part....


----------



## Eptesicus

novaburst said:


> They may just give the bows in the first part then the violins in the second part....
> 
> Come guys what is is what is they have given an update on what's going on, I guess you need to remember this Synchron series is a very new approach to VSL, I can only imagine strings must be much more difficult to complete than say percussion,



I don't think the delay is bad as such (in terms of making sure it is top quality). It is the fact they have taken peoples money all though much of October and November whilst still displaying everywhere that it will all be ready in November....then 3 days before the end of November " oh sorry, no it will be December, and in bits and pieces when they become available".

Personally i don't think that is acceptable for those that have paid for it already. There is no way they just suddenly realised yesterday that they needed potentially another month and could only release it in stages.


----------



## Rob Elliott

novaburst said:


> They may just give the bows in the first part then the violins in the second part....



If that is the case i so hope for the sul ponticello's - really need those right now!!!!!


----------



## muk

I am hoping for similar sound characteristics to Berlin Strings. There are more players per section here, but I hope for a similar classical, versatile sound signature. A Berlin Strings-like timbre combined with VSL programming and quality control, that would be fabulous.


----------



## dhlkid

Glad I didn't place my order last month


----------



## ctsai89

Eptesicus said:


> I don't think the delay is bad as such (in terms of making sure it is top quality). It is the fact they have taken peoples money all though much of October and November whilst still displaying everywhere that it will all be ready in November....then 3 days before the end of November " oh sorry, no it will be December, and in bits and pieces when they become available".
> 
> Personally i don't think that is acceptable for those that have paid for it already. There is no way they just suddenly realised yesterday that they needed potentially another month and could only release it in stages.



So you would rather that they release it in beta phase and have the first in line buyers test out before they can stabily release it?


----------



## kimarnesen

If you purchase 3 vouchers for 100 Euros each you'll get one for free. Which means you will have 400 Euros in vouchers which you can use to buy Synchron Strings. So with the early bird offer at 417 Euros, you will only pay 317 (might be additional VAT for some) for the library. That's almost a 50% discount, so will probably never be that cheap again later.


----------



## Pablocrespo

the retailers have updated their prices to the non-early bird, I was planning to buy in jrrshop for additional discount and it seems that the early bird has ended there....without any demos.


----------



## Vik

The early bird is still up here:
https://www.vsl.co.at/en


----------



## Pablocrespo

yes only the retailers have updated the prices...the vouchers seem like a good option nevertheless


----------



## Rob Elliott

Vik said:


> The early bird is still up here:
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en


Good news. Come on demos.


----------



## clonewar

Pablocrespo said:


> yes only the retailers have updated the prices...the vouchers seem like a good option nevertheless



The voucher deal is the best option now.. $600 all in from Ilio.


----------



## Eptesicus

wow so not only is it delayed it is now 100 Euro cheaper. Way to **** off everyone who bought it early.....

This is really quite poor vsl


----------



## kimarnesen

Eptesicus said:


> wow so not only is it delayed it is now 100 Euro cheaper. Way to **** off everyone who bought it early.....
> 
> This is really quite poor vsl



I know. So glad I waited until now, but I understand the frustration.


----------



## novaburst

VSL maybe the world's most expensive library's, but they certainly have got some bad ass savings and sales.

Giving an opportunity for everyone to taste their products.


----------



## C-Wave

novaburst said:


> VSL maybe the world's most expensive library's, but they certainly have got some bad ass savings and sales.
> 
> Giving an opportunity for everyone to taste their products.


Novaburst .. kind of insensitive after the two posts above, don’t you think?


----------



## muk

Paul wrote on the VSL forum that there will be demos before the early bird expires. Nice to know for those who are still on the fence.

And Christof had an interesting idea for those who bought early and missed the voucher discount: there is a return policy on VSL products. So maybe you can return Synchron Strings I, and then immediately buy it again using the vouchers. Don't know if it actually works/is allowed, but it is an idea.


----------



## jamwerks

Aren't the vouchers good just for products starting in 2018?


----------



## Eptesicus

jamwerks said:


> Aren't the vouchers good just for products starting in 2018?



No, as far as i can see they are valid straight away. It even says - 

_"After our brand-new Synchron Strings I we're planning to release more exciting product innovations in 2018, so be sure to stock up on free Vienna Vouchers now since they can also be applied to the introductory prices on all the new and upcoming products for maximum savings!


Vienna Vouchers purchased at the VSL web shop can be used by anyone to buy any product at the VSL web shop. They are transferable and have no expiry date. Please find more information here."_


----------



## Christof

muk said:


> Paul wrote on the VSL forum that there will be demos before the early bird expires. Nice to know for those who are still on the fence.
> 
> And Christof had an interesting idea for those who bought early and missed the voucher discount: there is a return policy on VSL products. So maybe you can return Synchron Strings I, and then immediately buy it again using the vouchers. Don't know if it actually works/is allowed, but it is an idea.


I finished my demo yesterday, so it's up to the VSL team now, they are working as hard as they can so be patient.
Better a brilliant product some weeks later that an unsatisfying one immediately.


----------



## muk

Congrats Christof. Looking forward to hearing it.


----------



## Vik

Just post it here, Christof, we won't tell anyone.


----------



## novaburst

C-Wave said:


> Novaburst .. kind of insensitive after the two posts above, don’t you think?



A sale is a sale, @C-Wave if we could read the minds of Developers how they are going to cut prices that would be great, 

But a Developer should not be held to account to how many times, they do sales or how much you are allowed to save from a sale simply because the latest sale was and is better than the previous sale.

When you think about it any one can take part in the latest sale, even if you pulled the trigger in the previous sale,(early bird) so there is still a lot to save.

Developers are not thinking about how much money is in your pocket, they are thinking how much users they can gain or to stop you going to another Developer to spend your money, in this case it's a big gain for everyone, so for example if you pulled the trigger on the standard strings Synchron library it might be worth going for the full version now.

I have pulled the trigger on library's any to find out they have a massive sale later or a better sale,. I think nothing of it becuase I needed it at the time and some times the need is greater than the sale.

It's not a Developers responsibility to regulate our spending, that is your responsibility, but believe me if you did not gain at this time there will be another time that you will gain.


----------



## ColonelMarquand

Christof said:


> I finished my demo yesterday, so it's up to the VSL team now, they are working as hard as they can so be patient.
> Better a brilliant product some weeks later that an unsatisfying one immediately.



What was you overall impression without giving too much away Christof?


----------



## Christof

ColonelMarquand said:


> What was you overall impression without giving too much away Christof?


Sorry, I am not in the position to say anything.


----------



## Eptesicus

novaburst said:


> A sale is a sale, @C-Wave if we could read the minds of Developers how they are going to cut prices that would be great,
> 
> But a Developer should not be held to account to how many times, they do sales or how much you are allowed to save from a sale simply because the latest sale was and is better than the previous sale.
> 
> When you think about it any one can take part in the latest sale,* even if you pulled the trigger in the previous sale,(early bird) so there is still a lot to save.*
> 
> in.



This completely misses the point as the product is not even released yet and the early bird offer is still on! Seriously, the only thing anyone has got for pre-ordering this is a big fat -$100/100 euro.

The main issue here is that those that ordered weeks ago still have nothing but were under the impression that they would get the product at a special "early bird" price. As it happens they still have nothing but have actually spent more than those who waited till December to order.

There is zero way to spin this in VSl's favour i am afraid, even though some seem to be trying to for some reason.

Intentional or not, their December voucher offer and the delay to Synchron Strings has completely screwed over anyone who bought it early and who was under the impression they were getting it for the best price.


----------



## Prockamanisc

Eptesicus said:


> This completely misses the point as the product is not even released yet and the early bird offer is still on! Seriously, the only thing anyone has got for pre-ordering this is a big fat -$100/100 euro.


I got Synchron Strings, and another one, and another one for free (similarly priced), because that's the sale they had going on last month. +$700 doesn't seem to be a bad deal for me.


----------



## jamwerks

Christof said:


> Sorry, I am not in the position to say anything.


I definitely read some positive excitement in these words!!


----------



## muk

Paul just posted that if you bought Synchron Strings I in October you can contact [email protected] They will try to find a solution on a case by case basis (depending on what else you purchased in that time and if you took advantage of another sale).


----------



## novaburst

Eptesicus said:


> The main issue here is that those that ordered weeks ago still have nothing but were under the impression that they would get the product at a special "early bird" price. As it happens they still have nothing but have actually spent more than those who waited till December to order.



I am sorry to hear that, I think we are all in the same boat here.

There is still an opportunity to withdraw from the product if you feel miss treated, 

I just see it as unforseen circumstances, 
It happens.


----------



## clonewar

Prockamanisc said:


> I got Synchron Strings, and another one, and another one for free (similarly priced), because that's the sale they had going on last month. +$700 doesn't seem to be a bad deal for me.



This is a good point.. Last month you could've purchased Synchron Strings at the early bird price with an extra discount from JRR Shop and then taken advantage of the buy two get one free offer. I actually considered doing this and getting Historic Winds I and II, which would have been a $565 discount. (I ended up spending on other BF deals).


----------



## wbacer

I also purchased Synchron strings back in October but with their new voucher offer, I would have saved money if I would have waited. I didn't think that was quite fair so I called Ilio and expressed my concern. 

Ilio contacted VSL who assured them that all of us who purchased Synchron strings prior to their voucher offer would be taken care of and they would make it right. They didn't give specifics but at least they are aware of the issue and are working on an equitable solution.


----------



## C-Wave

Please tell me how they reimburse you.. I am in similar situation. I too don’t know what they will do but do wish they would reimburse me from ILIO or something.


----------



## Eptesicus

Well that is reassuring for us "early birds" (or should i say "early mugs")


----------



## C-Wave

Eptesicus said:


> Well that is reassuring for us "early birds" (or should i say "early mugs")


Still waiting for answer though.


----------



## wbacer

Maybe they'll give us a $100 voucher toward their newly developed Synchron Kazoo's with 18 velocity layers, 10 round robins and true legato...


----------



## Eptesicus

wbacer said:


> Maybe they'll give us a $100 voucher toward their newly developed Synchron Kazoo's with 18 velocity layers, 10 round robins and true legato...



or toward their new "early bird whistle" library


----------



## muk

Has anyobdy heard Guy Bacos' demo demo 'The Hatchling'? It was on his personal website, but he took it down when somebody noticed that it could be a Synchron Strings demo.


----------



## muk

To be fair leave it hidden. It will be released in due time. You could, however, share your impressions if you want


----------



## jamwerks

Anyone remember what the original early bird offer was, in euros?


----------



## novaburst

jamwerks said:


> Anyone remember what the original early bird offer was, in euros?


417.00 euros


----------



## camelot

Eptesicus said:


> The main issue here is that those that ordered weeks ago still have nothing but were under the impression that they would get the product at a special "early bird" price. As it happens they still have nothing but have actually spent more than those who waited till December to order.


Well, Keep in mind that there was no ill will from VSL side behind that as they initially planned to release it the month before the voucher offer. So, this was actually not planned to happen and it seems as they are already working on a solution for those pre-voucher adopters.


----------



## Saxer

Can we hear "The Robber" with Syncron shorts?


----------



## Vik

jamwerks said:


> Anyone remember what the original early bird offer was, in euros?


It's still 417, or actually lower if you buy vouchers:
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Series/Synchron_Strings_I
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/News/2017-12_Free_Vienna_Voucher


----------



## Christof

Saxer said:


> Can we hear "The Robber" with Syncron shorts?


No, maybe some day, I didn't want to force more comparison discussions.
I wrote something totally new specially for the new library.


----------



## Eptesicus

camelot said:


> Well, Keep in mind that there was no ill will from VSL side behind that as they initially planned to release it the month before the voucher offer. So, this was actually not planned to happen and it seems as they are already working on a solution for those pre-voucher adopters.



Absolutely . I don't think they ever planned this, but the delay has caused a very awkward situation for countless customers who believed they were ordering it at the best price possible before release.

Hopefully they can put it right.


----------



## ctsai89

Price aside though, I am hoping for a library (synchron hopefully) that will start to actually (and seriously) replace the need of having to have real players to play our pieces.

Someone will say that it's never going to or never should happen


----------



## CT

I'll gladly be the first to say it never should!


----------



## C-Wave

Eptesicus said:


> Absolutely . I don't think they ever planned this, but the delay has caused a very awkward situation for countless customers who believed they were ordering it at the best price possible before release.
> 
> Hopefully they can put it right.


contact [email protected] . Let them hear your voice.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Maybe it will replace, maybe it won't. To be honest I just want 'ever more convincing' so I can get clients to approve cues.  I'll leave the argument of whether it 'should' for another discussion.


----------



## Christof

Me too!


----------



## camelot

All I want is a good sound (means a sound *I* like ) combined with the quality of their former product line, which I assume to be a feasible task for VSL. But I am still waiting for more info before I jump the train.

Actually, I bought too many stuff lately (among others another string lib), so I should not jump any trains at all.


----------



## novaburst

ctsai89 said:


> Price aside though, I am hoping for a library (synchron hopefully) that will start to actually (and seriously) replace the need of having to have real players to play our pieces.
> 
> Someone will say that it's never going to or never should happen



I am not sure if replacement, is the correct word, 

I think generally sample based orhcestral is being accepted as a finished musical product.

I think if I may, a bit like CGI animation movies and real life movies.


----------



## novaburst

ctsai89 said:


> Price aside though, I am hoping for a library (synchron hopefully) that will start to actually (and seriously) replace the need of having to have real players to play our pieces.
> 
> Someone will say that it's never going to or never should happen



I am not sure if replacement, is the correct word,

I think generally sample based orhcestral is being accepted as a finished musical product.

I think if I may, a bit like CGI animation movies and real life movies but not Vs each other more like co existing with eachother.


----------



## al_net77

A couple of demos are online...


----------



## ctsai89

Wow guys go listen to the new demoes!


----------



## rottoy

Demos here:
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Player/8503

Sounds wonderful!


----------



## erica-grace

al_net77 said:


> A couple of demos are online...



Thanks for making us aware.

The sound is lovely - what did we expect? But is it just me, or are the legato transitions not very good at all? They sound too abrupt to me, very evident in Christof's demo.

What do the rest of you think?


----------



## Tfis

erica-grace said:


> Thanks for making us aware.
> 
> ... But is it just me, or are the legato transitions not very good at all? ..



I thought the same.
And it seems there's no portamento.


----------



## jamwerks

Two really nice pieces! The hall sounds quite a bit different than both Air & Teldex.


----------



## Lotias

There is no portamento - we knew that already, since it was not listed on the product page. It's one of those articulations I always think I'll want but don't find a lot of use for.

I'm having trouble hearing the complaints about the legato transitions; are you even sure the passages you mean are meant to be played legato?


----------



## Rob Elliott

erica-grace said:


> Thanks for making us aware.
> 
> The sound is lovely - what did we expect? But is it just me, or are the legato transitions not very good at all? They sound too abrupt to me, very evident in Christof's demo.
> 
> What do the rest of you think?


We just need more EXPOSED walkthoughs to really determine this - as I just said on the VSL forum -

"nice demos - the longs are telling (I like them). shorts are easier to get 'away with things' (albiet they are strong) but the longs are solid. Looking forward to Paul's walkthroughs (particularily the longs/legatos.)



I really need to hear how (all by itself) 'controllable' the non to vibrato sound is. For me the GREAT weakness of ANY sample string section is its inability to do this convincingly without artifacts/phasing. For me if Sample strings sit for more than a brief moment without some change to vibrato (not just xfade between sampled layers BUT vibrato and I am personlly taken out of it.)



And of course - is the new player going to allow me to use this in the heat of a tight schedule?"


I am still hopeful - given solid walkthroughs on the longs/legatos and the new player.


----------



## Pablocrespo

yes, I hear something strange in the legatos.


----------



## Christof

Maybe this helps a bit:


----------



## jamwerks

The Legato on Christof's piece is probably meant to be kind of a marcato détaché legato on that melody. Sounds musical to me.

We'll have to hear some exposed fast stuff to see if they got a fluid legato. That will be the real test imo.

Seems on Guy's piece we're hearing just the main mic's. Would be interesting to hear with some (more) close mic's mixed in!

Those are obviously all the Syncron instruments (strings and percussion). The 3d image is very nice. The room sounds smaller than I was thinking. Would like to hear also with some longer and brighter reverbs!


----------



## muk

Really like the sound of Christof's demo. Synchron seems to be a good hall for strings. Nice width and ambience, not too dry and not too wet. The legato might sound slightly unconventional at times (noticeable for me mostly in the celli). I'll have to check that on exposed solo lines. I would have liked to hear the violas a bit more prominently with more varied articulations (strictly out of curiousity, not because I thought the piece would need it). But that surely will be possible on subsequent demos. The only thing I am unsure about are the pizzicati on celli and basses. Not too fond of that sound. Maybe it's adjustable. Other than that it sounds pretty good to my ears.

@Christof thanks a lot for posting the score. Would you mind sharing which mic perspectives were used on your demo? If you know it, that is, seeing that Dietz did the mixing.


----------



## FriFlo

The tremolo, short notes and especially the pizzicato sound remarkably well! But on the other hand it the demos don't give me enough of an impression of how well the whole library is. I am on the fence ... can't make up my mind to buy it, yet ...


----------



## Christof

Of course there is a fast legato patch which works well in my opinion, but due to the nature of my piece I couldn't make use of them, this was my decision.
I included lyrical legato patches, normal legato, tremolo, trills and pizzicato.
The possibilities are endless, but my schedule didn't allow to extend my demo.


----------



## jamwerks

Still thinking about the hall. There's really no one perfect space for recording all the instruments. Air studios is perfect for strings, but much less appealing to me for woodwinds and brass.

I'm starting to think that Syncron might just be the opposite; perfect for woodwinds and brass, but less flattering for the strings.

The sound is very focused which is great. The strings sound very polished. But it seems there's no "air" around the instruments, as if there were some marble on those walls and a bigger space.

Maybe I could get that sound with reverb. Something like what the "Berlin Hall" patch from EW Spaces does. 

Looking forward to more pieces!


----------



## ctsai89

I just think th marcato detache was over used. If it was used less and add more fluid legato to the piece it would've sounded real great


----------



## Christof

muk said:


> Really like the sound of Christof's demo. Synchron seems to be a good hall for strings. Nice width and ambience, not too dry and not too wet. The legato might sound slightly unconventional at times (noticeable for me mostly in the celli). I'll have to check that on exposed solo lines. I would have liked to hear the violas a bit more prominently with more varied articulations (strictly out of curiousity, not because I thought the piece would need it). But that surely will be possible on subsequent demos. The only thing I am unsure about are the pizzicati on celli and basses. Not too fond of that sound. Maybe it's adjustable. Other than that it sounds pretty good to my ears.
> 
> @Christof thanks a lot for posting the score. Would you mind sharing which mic perspectives were used on your demo? If you know it, that is, seeing that Dietz did the mixing.


I used all available mic positions, which include:Close, Mid, Back, Center, LS-RS, HL-HR and HLS-HRS.
that said you have 7 mic positions which gives you a great flexibility, like Dimension Strings.
I don't know if any other library provides that vast amount of mic positions.


----------



## ctsai89

Very nice piece by @Guy Bacos by the way


----------



## Sovereign

I absolutely don't want to be negative, especially since I already pre-ordered these, but I'm not (yet) hearing the lush sound from e.g. the Blue Planet recording they put up. I assume section sizes were the same? It all sounds a bit thin.


----------



## Sovereign

Christof said:


> I used all available mic positions, which include:Close, Mid, Back, Center, LS-RS, HL-HR and HLS-HRS.
> that said you have 7 mic positions which gives you a great flexibility, like Dimension Strings.


Could you give us an idea how necessary these additional mic positions might/would be to get a good sound?


----------



## Christof

Sovereign said:


> I absolutely don't want to be negative, especially since I already pre-ordered these, but I'm not (yet) hearing the lush sound from e.g. the Blue Planet recording they put up. I assume section sizes were the same? It all sounds a bit thin.


Well, you are comparing a live recording with a midi mockup.The live recording is always the winner


----------



## Eptesicus

I think the shorts and overall sound of the strings sounds fantastic.

The legato/transitions between long notes though...sound a bit dodgy?

I was sort of expecting the legato to be very good after this:

"*Performance Legato Re-invented*
Bringing together new recording techniques and innovative algorithms tailored to recordings on a scoring stage, Vienna’s revolutionary Legato Performances excel with a newly heightened realism."


----------



## Saxer

I really like the sound. Silky and open.


----------



## ctsai89

Regarding Christof's piece.. just my opinion but for those legatoes I would've slurred them from off beat notes to the down beats instead of from down to off. And slurring it over a bar instead of starting on a new bow on a new bar would've sounded more fluid.


----------



## novaburst

Christof said:


> The possibilities are endless, but my schedule didn't allow to extend my demo.


Nice demo, it did sound like you could do what you wanted and had a lot of options to hand.

enjoyed a lot


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

In regards to "realness" of timbre and how the sections come together, my first impression is that I can't think of nothing out there that sounds this convincing right now.

I'm also quite happy that the sound is very clear, open and elegant and not at all mushy and sappy (= lush, as people like to call it). There's enough of that already. Instead, there is a sense of physicality in there, the way you can really hear the bow hairs on the thicker strings, but in a way it doesn't sound silly or close miked or anything. Really like that.

It's also very nice that apparently, the depth of space is really there (which apparently also translates to impressive power at high dynamics), but it's all very tight and clean and I expect it to work very well with additional external reverb.

Finally, what I also believe to have heard is that the library is capable of doing convincing, controllable and agile detaché and marcato. All other string libraries suck at this, which drives me nuts.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I like the overall sound, and shorts...would like to hear some exposed legato lines, just somebody playing them with a keyboard to see what can be done out of the box.

I just don´t hear the re-invented legato yet.

PS: Christof, lovely piece of music!


----------



## Symfoniq

As someone who has a small fortune invested in VSL, and has already pre-purchased Synchron Strings 1, I mostly enjoyed the demos, but have to agree that I'm not hearing the improved legato. I don't really care for the timbre of the high strings, either, a complaint I've always had about VSL string libraries, but associated with the samples being recorded on the Silent Stage. Now I'm not so sure.


----------



## C-Wave

@Christof, 
In order to compare have you recorded the same piece with just the stereo mics? thanks.


----------



## kimarnesen

This sounds really promising, pretty close to the sound of a real string orchestra. One question: Divisi?


----------



## Pianolando

I have to say that the legato lines didn't convince me either. Not real to my ears. But looking forward to more demos and walkthroughs!


----------



## Critz

I think we have to resign to the fact that's how VSL knows the legato. Maybe that's how they play in Vienna 

To me the overall quality of the recording sounds really like an orchestral recording. No doubt it's better than anything else I listened before.
I can really recognize it's a VSL library, from the couple of things I personally never liked (for my taste), like the sound of pizzicato.
But the legato.. it's not a matter of taste, also seing the score, it doesn't sound like a legato. For sure not like a fingered legato.
I also really hope the part at 2:48 of Guy Bacos' piece is not supposed to be a legato line, or it's going to be worst than Dimension and Appassionata legato.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Naturally there will be many more demos in the next days and weeks, especially now that we have access to a more complete library.

I was asked on the VSL forum if it was possible to listen to The Hatchling without the percussion, so I thought I'd share it here as well:

The Hatchling (with no percussion)

@Critz, no, at 2:48 these couple of notes are not legato patches.


----------



## JacquesMathias

@Guy Bacos and @Christof are great composers. Guys, congrats on the production and writing! Nice pieces indeed. Room sounds promising!

Ok, may I suggest something here? Would it be possible to post simple phrases? Violin legato phrases? Violas, Cellos and so on? Respectfully, I would say it would not only help the product, but it would help the VI control crowd (including me) to decide if this lovely product is a fit for our projects or not. Preferably - what I understand would be too much to ask - using all the different mics positions, so we could listen the different characteristics. That would be really nice. Simple, 15-20 sec phrases would do. Cheers.


----------



## Guy Bacos

JacquesMathias said:


> @Guy Bacos and @Christof are great composers. Guys, congrats on the production and writing! Nice pieces indeed. Room sounds promising!
> 
> Ok, may I suggest something here? Would it be possible to post simple phrases? Violin legato phrases? Violas, Cellos and so on? Respectfully, I would say it would not only help the product, but it would help the VI control crowd (including me) to decide if this lovely product is a fit for our projects or not. Preferably - what I understand would be too much to ask - using all the different mics positions, so we could listen the different characteristics. That would be really nice. Simple, 15-20 sec phrases would do. Cheers.



For sure.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Naturally there will be many more demos in the next days and weeks, especially now that we have access to a more complete library.
> 
> I was asked on the VSL forum if it was possible to listen to The Hatchling without the percussion, so I thought I'd share it here as well:
> 
> The Hatchling (with no percussion)
> 
> @Critz, no, at 2:48 these couple of notes are not legato patches.



edit: the -as always enchanting- Guy Bacos' piece.

The marcato parts sound outstanding. Is it just a simple marcato patch?!

Also, could you tell us if did you see large differences (improvements) working with a library that for the first time has 8 dynamic layers on long notes?


----------



## kimarnesen

To get a more lush sound (this sounds a bit chamber), how well would this layer with other libraries?


----------



## Critz

kimarnesen said:


> To get a more lush sound (this sounds a bit chamber), how well would this layer with other libraries?



I would layer it with woodwinds & Brass to get the "symphonic" sound


----------



## kimarnesen

Critz said:


> I would layer it with woodwinds & Brass to get the "symphonic" sound



For sure, but this is still not a very big orchestra.


----------



## Saxer

Cool demo track compositions! And I really enjoyed Guys strings only version!


----------



## Critz

kimarnesen said:


> For sure, but this is still not a very big orchestra.


I don't know..I suppose it depends on what we are accustomed to! But I also think that playing with mics and adding a reverb over those sample, you could achieve what you're looking for. Layering is not a bad idea, but I wanted to point out that those are 14 violins if I'm not wrong... no chamber music at all..


----------



## Symfoniq

Guy Bacos said:


> Naturally there will be many more demos in the next days and weeks, especially now that we have access to a more complete library.
> 
> I was asked on the VSL forum if it was possible to listen to The Hatchling without the percussion, so I thought I'd share it here as well:
> 
> The Hatchling (with no percussion)
> 
> @Critz, no, at 2:48 these couple of notes are not legato patches.



Thanks for posting this, Guy. Without the percussion, I actually came away more impressed (which isn't to say that Synchron Percussion doesn't sound good, because it does). While I'm not always a fan of the string's timbre, I can't deny that there's a great deal of realism on offer here.


----------



## kimarnesen

Critz said:


> I don't know..I suppose it depends on what we are accustomed to! But I also think that playing with mics and adding a reverb over those sample, you could achieve what you're looking for. Layering is not a bad idea, but I wanted to point out that those are 14 violins if I'm not wrong... no chamber music at all..



Yes, so it’s symphonic but not large. Let’s see what can be done. But still interested to hear thoughts on layering this with other libraries, like Spitfire. Might not work well with two different halls.


----------



## JF

If I understand correctly these demos were done without the new player. What advantage does the new player have? Is legato improved with it?


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> edit: the -as always enchanting- Guy Bacos' piece.
> 
> The marcato parts sound outstanding. Is it just a simple marcato patch?!
> 
> Also, could you tell us if did you see large differences (improvements) working with a library that for the first time has 8 dynamic layers on long notes?



The marcato section up to 1:10,(staccatos, all accents and repeated fast notes) if we exclude the low tremolos, is all done with the _"super staccato"_ patch. Kind of "out of the box" if you want.

Regarding the dynamics layers, if we take this same section, being able to chose which dynamic matrix is best even for quick changes was very efficient. For the long notes, as you asked, I will be more experimenting this in my next demo, but I can tell you that the loud is louder and soft is softer, so basically, you get a wider range of timbre contrasts. In my middle section, I stayed within the soft and medium dynamic matrix, but had I continued to build up, I would of moved to the strong dynamic matrix and the feeling is that you are getting the right string or bowing tension without forcing it or harshness.


----------



## C-Wave

Guy Bacos said:


> The marcato section up to 1:10,(staccatos, all accents and repeated fast notes) if we exclude the low tremolos, is all done with the _"super staccato"_ patch. Kind of "out of the box" if you want.
> 
> Regarding the dynamics layers, if we take this same section, being able to chose which dynamic matrix is best even for quick changes was very efficient. For the long notes, as you asked, I will be more experimenting this in my next demo, but I can tell you that the loud is louder and soft is softer, so basically, you get a wider range of timbre contrasts. In my middle section, I stayed within the soft and medium dynamic matrix, but had I continued to build up, I would of moved to the strong dynamic matrix and the feeling is that are getting the right string tension without forcing it.


Thanks Guy.. lovely piece, and the Strings only demo shows it off really well.
Do you think that a similar demo in stereo only will ever slightly affect the feeling of openness (or any other aspect of timbre), the same that the “ stereo” demo in “Synchron Percussion I” did? Thanks.


----------



## NoamL

I'm VERY impressed by these two demos... 

The shorts are deceptively superior to A LOT of other stuff out there. I can clearly hear and distinguish up bows and down bows. I wonder if these RRs were performance sampled.

The pizzicatos are great.

The legatos are top shelf as well. They sound quite convincing to me in the slow section of Guy's piece. Progressive vibrato inside the same note is working so naturally I almost overlooked it. The samples are "alive" and have a feeling of musical intent.

As Christof gently corrected  , what we're hearing in his demo is only partially legato but mostly detache. The detache bowing sounds like it has a slight lag.

I prefer the sound of Trackdown or Teldex to this stage so I probably won't buy this, but can't wait to hear what people do with it.


----------



## Lotias

Something to note that I heard over on the VSL forums, they did not use the Synchron Player for these demos.


----------



## TintoL

Wao, these demos are superb. The strings are so real in Guy's demo without percussion.


----------



## Inceptic

Anyone know how much disk space is needed for the standard library?
Also, when does early-bird pricing end?


----------



## Guy Bacos

BTW, I'd recommend to run the Synchron library off of an SSD and have adequate RAM in your machine and optimize your pre-load buffer sizes in the Directory.


----------



## Lotias

Inceptic said:


> Anyone know how much disk space is needed for the standard library?
> Also, when does early-bird pricing end?


VSL has said, I think, that Synchron Strings I will be around the 200 GB mark, similar to Synchron Percussion I. I don't remember if that includes the extended library.


----------



## Guy Bacos

I think it's closer to 400GB or 450GB, for just the strings.


----------



## Lotias

Guy Bacos said:


> I think it's closer to 400GB or 450GB.


I think you used the complete library, so I'd expect about half that for the standard version.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Lotias said:


> I think you used the complete library, so I'd expect about half that for the standard version.



Ha! I guess I can't read. Yeah, that makes sense.


----------



## chapbot

Excellent demos. My first thought was "depth." I'm hearing a realism that I'm not hearing in other libraries. These demos are making me interested in this library for the first time.


----------



## jamwerks

Guy Bacos said:


> I think it's closer to 400GB or 450GB, for just the strings.


Is that for the full version with the Atmos mic's?


----------



## ColonelMarquand

Nice track there Guy. Benny would be pleased.

The strings are very classical sounding to me.


----------



## holywilly

I'd wait for the video walkthrough before I make my purchasing decision. Really looking forward to see the full potential of this library and the new Synchron player.


----------



## Christof

Lotias said:


> Something to note that I heard over on the VSL forums, they did not use the Synchron Player for these demos.


Exactly, I didn't have access to the Synchron Player, but probably soon.


----------



## Vik

Has anything been posted anywhere about the differences between the Synchron player and the old player?


----------



## Christof

Vik said:


> Has anything been posted anywhere about the differences between the Synchron player and the old player?


Not yet I guess because they are working on the Synchron Player, it will be powerful tool.


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> it doesn't sound like a legato. For sure not like a fingered legato



Is there not a set up one can do to get the legato sounding correct, also is it not down to the composer to convince you, it is a new library, and I think its going to get some getting ones self familiar with.

Its almost like every note you expect to be a legato, so are you all legato freaks


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Surprisingly, the detache doesn't sound like legato. What is this madness?


----------



## novaburst

Anyway legatos aside, sorry if I missed it but @Christof and @Guy Bacos really nice demos, could you give us the size of the library,

Is it over 500gig


----------



## Critz

novaburst said:


> Is there not a set up one can do to get the legato sounding correct, also is it not down to the composer to convince you, it is a new library, and I think its going to get some getting ones self familiar with.
> 
> Its almost like every note you expect to be a legato, so are you all legato freaks


eheh, it's not like that. The fact is that for me (and for others too) the legato in the latest Dimension series was crazy good for very fast writing, but it was often impossible to achieve a simple melody line where you don't hear a gap or a small accent during the notes change.
I'm looking for the very basic legato, the only legato that oldest libraries could achieve. I want the possibility to choose a smooth legato where I just hear the new note as a natural continuation of the previous one (when is it possibile of course). In dimension the "excuse" was the small size (even if I don't agree, because that kind of legato is something that can be achieved by a single player..). What now?


----------



## C-Wave

@Christof and @Guy Bacos, no one wants to answer my two posts about extra mics? ah well. Probably not at liberty to answer


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> eheh, it's not like that. The fact is that for me (and for others too) the legato in the latest Dimension series was crazy good for very fast writing, but it was often impossible to achieve a simple melody line where you don't hear a gap or a small accent during the notes change.
> I'm looking for the very basic legato, the only legato that oldest libraries could achieve. I want the possibility to choose a smooth legato where I just hear the new note as a natural continuation of the previous one (when is it possibile of course). In dimension the "excuse" was the small size (even if I don't agree, because that kind of legato is something that can be achieved by a single player..). What now?



I hope this library does it for you, or I guess the search continues


----------



## Christof

C-Wave said:


> @Christof and @Guy Bacos, no one wants to answer my two posts about extra mics? ah well. Probably not at liberty to answer


Sorry maybe I missed your question, can you ask again please?


----------



## Christof

novaburst said:


> Anyway legatos aside, sorry if I missed it but @Christof and @Guy Bacos really nice demos, could you give us the size of the library,
> 
> Is it over 500gig


Around 500gig, yes, but make sure to use a SSD


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I remember Paul stating on the VSL forums that the library is going to be around 200/500 gig (standard/full).


----------



## Critz

listen at 2:13 of Guy Bacos' demo. Now, that could be intentional, but if Synchron goes on with the same trend of Dimensions, these "bumbs" during notes changes are unavoidable. With a real violins section you could have a totally smooth melody in crescendo. And if it's intentional, I mean to have a sort of marcato on every note, this is far from a realistic result, imo.
But if you like it, it could be just a matter of taste. Fact remains that less and less people are interested in VSL libraries since years, especially for strings, and everybody loves the legato of CSS, @Christof included it seems


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> listen at 2:13 of Guy Bacos' demo.



If ALL transitions in the demo sounded like that, you would have had a point. The one you mentioned sounded 100% intentional to me. /shrug


----------



## maestro2be

Critz said:


> eheh, it's not like that. The fact is that for me (and for others too) the legato in the latest Dimension series was crazy good for very fast writing, but it was often impossible to achieve a simple melody line where you don't hear a gap or a small accent during the notes change.
> I'm looking for the very basic legato, the only legato that oldest libraries could achieve. I want the possibility to choose a smooth legato where I just hear the new note as a natural continuation of the previous one (when is it possibile of course). In dimension the "excuse" was the small size (even if I don't agree, because that kind of legato is something that can be achieved by a single player..). What now?



Can you put a link here to a simple performance of a legato that pleases you and that you consider does exactly what you're saying VSL Dimensions can't, and Synchron possibly doesn't do?


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> listen at 2:13 of Guy Bacos' demo. Now, that could be intentional, but if Synchron goes on with the same trend of Dimensions, these "bumbs" during notes changes are unavoidable. With a real violins section you could have a totally smooth melody in crescendo. And if it's intentional, I mean to have a sort of marcato on every note, this is far from a realistic result, imo.
> But if you like it, it could be just a matter of taste. Fact remains that less and less people are interested in VSL libraries since years, especially for strings, and everybody loves the legato of CSS, @Christof included it seems



There were a few passages where if I had more time I would of phrased better, this was one of them, however, it's just a little less musical than it can be, on the leap I think more portamento would be better for example, but there's also no end.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Guy Bacos said:


> Naturally there will be many more demos in the next days and weeks, especially now that we have access to a more complete library.
> 
> I was asked on the VSL forum if it was possible to listen to The Hatchling without the percussion, so I thought I'd share it here as well:
> 
> The Hatchling (with no percussion)
> 
> @Critz, no, at 2:48 these couple of notes are not legato patches.



Hey Guy, 
I really like the track and demo. Sounds really good. Very very detailed and pristine sound.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Thanks Alexander and all who complimented the track!

One thing may be worthwhile mentioning, as we are using a beta version, about 20% of the patches are being completed as we speak. So for example, we didn't have access to 2nd violins, violas and basses legatos and slur patches for these demos. But because people were pressing on hearing something, it gives an idea.


----------



## Sovereign

Guy Bacos said:


> Thanks Alexander and all who complimented the track!
> 
> One thing may be worthwhile mentioning, as we are using a beta version, about 20% of the patches are being completed as we speak. So for example, we didn't have access to 2nd violins, violas and basses legatos and slur patches for these demos. But because people were pressing on hearing something, it gives an idea.


So there are no violas at all in your piece? Thought so. As for 20% being completed, ouch, how does that square with a december release?


----------



## Guy Bacos

Sovereign said:


> After listening again to the
> 
> So there are no violas at all in your piece? Thought so. As for 20% being completed, ouch, how does that square with a december release?



No, that's not what I said, just certain patches were not yet added. We didn't have the full matrix for all the instruments. just the 1st violin and cellos were complete at the time of these demos.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Sovereign said:


> how does that square with a december release?



As I said, as we speak, they are being completed, editing stuff. Recordings have been finished a long time ago, obviously.


----------



## wbacer

If this is still a work in progress and sounds this good, can’t wait for the final release. Excellent demos


----------



## Guy Bacos

I want to be careful to not mislead anybody here, it's just final adjustments of certain patches which we could not access at the moment of making these demos.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Wonderful writing @Guy Bacos and @Christof your work is terrific. My current favorite strings are VSL Orchestral Strings doubled with CSS strings in a 50/50 mix. I have already purchased Synchron Strings I and my Christmas wish is that it will become my new favorite for strings. VSL has always been an innovator and I will bet (actually already did bet by purchasing) that Synchron Strings will not be an exception. I am excited by the prospect of exploring the innovations this product and the new Synchron Player will offer.


----------



## CT

Symfoniq said:


> I don't really care for the timbre of the high strings, either, a complaint I've always had about VSL string libraries, but associated with the samples being recorded on the Silent Stage. Now I'm not so sure.



I'm afraid I feel the same way. 

There is *a lot* that is impressive here, but apparently something, somewhere, in the VSL process, results in high strings that rub me the wrong way regardless of room character. And no, it isn't that it's more "classical" and my cretin ears are unable to respond properly. 

Ah well.


----------



## novaburst

Christof said:


> Around 500gig, yes, but make sure to use a SSD



My fears have been confirmed,


----------



## germancomponist

Guy! You rockkkkkk! Very cool demo!


----------



## germancomponist

It seems that I now will buy VSL libraries. Yeah, life is alive ... .


----------



## Piotrek K.

I would say that based on those demos Synchron Strings sounds... detailed, clean and cold / neutral? A bit like VSL Orchestral Strings The Sequel. Versatile yet emotionless if not taken care of properly.

I really like VSL OS, but I had hopes for something of a bit different sound signature. Or maybe it's just me?


----------



## germancomponist

Piotrek K. said:


> I would say that based on those demos Synchron Strings sounds... detailed, clean and cold / neutral? A bit like VSL Orchestral Strings The Sequel. Versatile yet emotionless if not taken care of properly.
> 
> I really like VSL OS, but I had hopes for something of a bit different sound signature. Or maybe it's just me?


I like the basic sound. Remember, you can implement everything "human" yourself. Use e.g. pitch wheel, one of the most important things always when u work with string samples ... . Adding solo instruments, sometimes detuned ..., make wonders.


----------



## Christof

germancomponist said:


> I like the basic sound. Remember, you can implement everything "human" yourself. Use e.g. pitch wheel, one of the most important things always when u work with string samples ... . Adding solo instruments, sometimes detuned ..., make wonders.


The pitch wheel?Seriously??


----------



## germancomponist

Always with solo instruments, yes! 
Do u know the different between happy vibrato and sadly vibrato, done with the pitch wheel?


----------



## Critz

Christof said:


> The pitch wheel?Seriously??



@Christof, could you kindly tell us, with the short experience you had with the Synchron Strings Beta, how it is compared to other strings library like CSS that you have?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Piotrek K. said:


> I would say that based on those demos Synchron Strings sounds... detailed, clean and cold / neutral? A bit like VSL Orchestral Strings The Sequel. Versatile yet emotionless if not taken care of properly.
> 
> I really like VSL OS, but I had hopes for something of a bit different sound signature. Or maybe it's just me?



I see it totally differently. Most of the time, "emotion" in samples is nonsense and more often than not pisses me off. Like for example, just an hour ago I was working on something where I spent way more time than I should endlessly massaging CC and excluding RRs from Spitfire Chamber Strings because quite frankly, they were ruining whole phrases.

I need good sounding samples that I can rely on. I'll take care of the rest.


----------



## rottoy

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I see it totally differently. Most of the time, "emotion" in samples is nonsense and more often than not pisses me off. Like for example, just an hour ago I was working on something where I spent way more time than I should endlessly massaging CC and excluding RRs from Spitfire Chamber Strings because quite frankly, they were ruining whole phrases.
> 
> I need good sounding samples that I can rely on. I'll take care of the rest.


Go for a sine wave instead then, you'll take care of the rest.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

rottoy said:


> Go for a sine wave instead then, you'll take care of the rest.



I'm sure you got the point anyway.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I see it totally differently. Most of the time, "emotion" in samples is nonsense and more often than not pisses me off. Like for example, just an hour ago I was working on something where I spent way more time than I should endlessly massaging CC and excluding RRs from Spitfire Chamber Strings because quite frankly, they were ruining whole phrases.
> 
> I need good sounding samples that I can rely on. I'll take care of the rest.


I see what you mean, but at the same time, you can even have 12 velocity layers, but a natural crescendo or a natural increasing in the vibrato will always be better sometimes.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> I see what you mean, but at the same time, you can even have 12 velocity layers, but a natural crescendo or a natural increasing in the vibrato will always be better sometimes.



I agree, especially regarding vibrato. I never heard scripted vibrato that I thought sounded really good. Natural dynamic patches are always a plus too. But what's super problematic to me is when samples are inconsistent - like, one of the standard arco samples has some built in crescendo in it, the bow is just different, more animated, or the attack is completely different from the rest, are just generally funky, out of tune, etc. I think that standard bread and butter sustain, detache, short note patches should be consistent, solid and always the same.


----------



## jamwerks

The additional scripted legato in the Joshua Tree violin sounds very good imo!


----------



## rottoy

jamwerks said:


> The additional scripted legato in the Joshua Tree violin sounds very good imo!


Joshua Tree violin sounds wonderful. I want what you are smoking.


----------



## Piotrek K.

> I see it totally differently. Most of the time, "emotion" in samples is nonsense and more often than not pisses me off.



Actually I agree with you in part. I went for VSL in first place, because:
a) I loved the sound
b) I wanted freedom in shaping the sound

But, maybe because of the fact that it is first VSL wet strings library or because I've seen "lyrical" articulation on the VSL list, I started to expect something bit more "alive" in terms of sound, bit more different. Now I think that true revolution might come from Synchron Player and not library itself.


----------



## Christof

Critz said:


> @Christof, could you kindly tell us, with the short experience you had with the Synchron Strings Beta, how it is compared to other strings library like CSS that you have?


Please understand that I won't make any public comments regarding the comparison to other string libraries in this case.I am a small part of the VSL family since they started 16 years ago, so I am emotionally attached, as performer and composer.
All I can say is that I use CSS, as you may know I love this library, but each library has it's own tone.
It's like comparing Mercedes and BMW.You can love both.


----------



## chapbot

jamwerks said:


> The additional scripted legato in the Joshua Tree violin sounds very good imo!


Someone must be getting their signals mixed up as the new U2 album is coming out.


----------



## jamwerks

chapbot said:


> Someone must be getting their signals mixed up as the new U2 album is coming out.


 Yes that would be the Joshua Bell violin by Embertone!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

jamwerks said:


> Yes that would be the Joshua Bell violin by Embertone!



That's the name of the new U2 album?
Or is "Joshua Bell violin" an album from a band called Embertone?


----------



## Critz

Christof said:


> Please understand that I won't make any public comments regarding the comparison to other string libraries in this case.I am a small part of the VSL family since they started 16 years ago, so I am emotionally attached, as performer and composer.
> All I can say is that I use CSS, as you may know I love this library, but each library has it's own tone.
> It's like comparing Mercedes and BMW.You can love both.


Sure, I know it was a dodgy question. But I have to say, if you work for Mercedes, but you still jump in a BMW, you really have to love the BMW.
The fact is that to me, CSS is actually almost an "entry level" strings library (easy to work with), with very few articulations that in some clever way can still do a lot of tasks. If Synchron Strings that will cost the double, it's like 8 times larger in size, can't do better than that, than it's objectively a failure.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Well, the standard version doesn't cost double - it costs nearly the same. You can't really compare it with the full version with all the surround mikes.....


----------



## Sovereign

After listening to both demos again I really would like a better example of the lyrical legato and vibrato crossfade nv-mv. And preferably no additional reverb.


----------



## Critz

mikeybabes said:


> Well, the standard version doesn't cost double - it costs nearly the same. You can't really compare it with the full version with all the surround mikes.....



Full price will be 595. CSS is 399. Sorry if I ask but, is it the same for you? CSS is 70 gb (39 compressed). Synchron Strings standard will be more than 200. Why should someone load memories and RAM for nothing? 
I'm sick of having that library because I like the staccato, this other library because I like the pizzicato more, another library because the legato it's better. 
Also, to have classic articulations we are used to have on strings libraries, like harmonics, sul punticello, con sordino, you will have to buy Synchron Strings II. So here that you will spend 1000+ euros. That's fine, but I would like to have a complete and funcional product.


----------



## ctsai89

Christof said:


> Please understand that I won't make any public comments regarding the comparison to other string libraries in this case.I am a small part of the VSL family since they started 16 years ago, so I am emotionally attached, as performer and composer.
> All I can say is that I use CSS, as you may know I love this library, but each library has it's own tone.
> It's like comparing Mercedes and BMW.You can love both.



CSS might be BMW or mercedz but I think with the 200g or 400g size of synchron, I would probably call it Lamborghini


----------



## Michael Antrum

Intro price is 417 euro - pretty close - but I take your point about the RRP. 

However, with the buy three vouchers, get one free, I can get the standard package for just over £ 230.00 ex VAT - which for a VSL library is insane.....

My big issue is the broken/lost dongle policy. They really need to fix that.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Sovereign said:


> After listening to both demos again I really would like a better example of the lyrical legato and vibrato crossfade nv-mv. And preferably no additional reverb.


This is ALL I want to hear at this point.


----------



## Critz

Also, I won't never judge a library from the amount of mics. Especially a library from VSL, that before Synchron Series produced DRY libraries with a lot of mono samples..


mikeybabes said:


> Well, the standard version doesn't cost double - it costs nearly the same. You can't really compare it with the full version with all the surround mikes.....


----------



## Guy Bacos

Sovereign said:


> After listening to both demos again I really would like a better example of the lyrical legato and vibrato crossfade nv-mv. And preferably no additional reverb.



This will happen.


----------



## germancomponist

I have recognized the new potential of the new VSL libraries. Cool!


----------



## JacquesMathias

Guy Bacos said:


> This will happen.


Great, thanks.


----------



## Vischebaste

Christof said:


> Around 500gig, yes, but make sure to use a SSD



Hi Christof,

So would this library be tough to use with a standard 7200rpm drive? Could you give an idea of what kind of arrangement would tax a standard SATA drive with the library?
Thanks in advance!


----------



## Vik

Sovereign said:


> After listening to both demos again I really would like a better example of the lyrical legato and vibrato crossfade nv-mv. And preferably no additional reverb.


Less then a minute of each of the sections, solo, as dry as possible with legato/portamento/vibrato demonstrated across the full range of each instrument will most likely be all that's needed in order to convince many of us to buy a string library.


----------



## C-Wave

Christof said:


> Sorry maybe I missed your question, can you ask again please?


Hi Christof, thanks for getting back to me.. 
I am trying to compare the final stereo sound of both the standard library (stereo mics) and extended (surround mics).. VSL made two versions of one of the audio demos in Synchron Percussion I, and I wonder if you can do the same for your demo.. if not then maybe tell us your feedback in terms of timbre? Thanks again.


----------



## ctsai89

Are hard copy disks going to be sold from guitar center? 400gb is above my internet service's limit per month


----------



## chapbot

ctsai89 said:


> Are hard copy disks going to be sold from guitar center? 400gb is above my internet service's limit per month


Don't tell me ctsai89 is actually interested in a VSL library!!


----------



## ctsai89

chapbot said:


> Don't tell me ctsai89 is actually interested in a VSL library!!



Kind of! But the demoes aren't as convincing as Andy Blaney from spitfire but I'm guessing it's the beta. And it would be a deal breaker to have to download 400 gigs


----------



## chapbot

ctsai89 said:


> Kind of! But the demoes aren't as convincing as Andy Blaney from spitfire but I'm guessing it's the beta. And it would be a deal breaker to have to download 400 gigs


So what are you hearing in Synchron that you're liking? (BTW while I was doing research here on getting new string libraries this summer I ran across several of your posts which really helped!)


----------



## ctsai89

chapbot said:


> So what are you hearing in Synchron that you're liking? (BTW while I was doing research here on getting new string libraries this summer I ran across several of your posts which really helped!)



to be honest it's more due to my enthusiast attitude towards VI's. Synchron sounds like it's a close 2nd place in terms of raw and real sound/tone only behind by Spitfire. I can't judge fully yet since it's in Beta and also haven't had the chance to touch and play it but, the playability/responsiveness will ultimately be the deciding factor if I were to choose in between Spitfire/Synchron. So yes, I'm hearing some very organic sounds that's quite similar to Spitfire's tone.


----------



## kimarnesen

ctsai89 said:


> to be honest it's more due to my enthusiast attitude towards VI's. Synchron sounds like it's a close 2nd place in terms of raw and real sound/tone only behind by Spitfire. I can't judge fully yet since it's in Beta and also haven't had the chance to touch and play it but, the playability/responsiveness will ultimately be the deciding factor if I were to choose in between Spitfire/Synchron. So yes, I'm hearing some very organic sounds that's quite similar to Spitfire's tone.



Would you layer it with Spitfire Strings?


----------



## ctsai89

kimarnesen said:


> Would you layer it with Spitfire Strings?



I can totally imagine it being layered with spitfire strings but I would only do it when I have to for example use the Vsl spiccato (in case it's more steady) and the rest would be spitfire. Or in case if Vsl turns out to be better at almost everything then I'll patch up what it's not good at with spitfire


----------



## ctsai89

Vischebaste said:


> Hi Christof,
> 
> So would this library be tough to use with a standard 7200rpm drive? Could you give an idea of what kind of arrangement would tax a standard SATA drive with the library?
> Thanks in advance!



I wouldn't get it without an SSD


----------



## holywilly

Just ordered another Blackmagic Multidock II, and I suggest @ctsai89 to do the same. :D


----------



## Simon Ravn

Wow - I am so disappointed. Had really been looking forward to getting another VSL library (something I haven't done in a long time). But with these demos.... no thanks, I'll pass. There is nothing here that I can't do better with existing libraries. Legato sounds almost non-existent, releases sound abrupt and cut off, and generally I think it's lacking vibrato too and tone sounds incosistent from note to note sometimes. Way too many problems showing already for me to even consider it.

Those cellos from 1:12-1:24 in "Enter the dream".... it's just baffling how bad that sounds, knowing a lot of time was put into this from a top notch composer and producer. It sounds like a 15 years old library.

What a shame, missed opportunity. But glad I didn't jump on he early bird offer. The second track is nice though, compositionally. Chrisof (and Guy) certainly know what they're doing.


----------



## Christof

Simon Ravn said:


> The second track is nice though, compositionally. Guy certainly knows what he's doing.


Actually I shouldn't care about negative comments, but this one hits me personally.
It makes me feel that I don't know what I'm doing.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Christof said:


> Actually I shouldn't care about negative comments, but this one hits me personally.
> It makes me feel that I don't know what I'm doing.



Sorry, Christof, you, of course, not Guy. You certainly know too VSL demo section doesn't tell who did those demos unless you click to the "demos" pane, so I "auto piloted" it to Guy. But realized when reading parts of this thread that you did it - Guy did the other one. I was talking about "Enter the dream" when I referred to the problems. Not that Guy's demo doesn't showcase some of the same issues though.

Edited my original post to make it more clear and correct.


----------



## Vischebaste

ctsai89 said:


> I wouldn't get it without an SSD



The system requirements are listed as "SSD or fast separate hard drive (7200 rpm or faster)" on VSL's website. Just trying to get a handle on why Christof says that an SSD would be required, as it doubles the cost of the investment


----------



## Christof

Vischebaste said:


> The system requirements are listed as "SSD or fast separate hard drive (7200 rpm or faster)" on VSL's website. Just trying to get a handle on why Christof says that an SSD would be required, as it doubles the cost of the investment


Loading times and performance!If you have time you can use a normal HD, but I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## Lotias

Simon Ravn said:


> Legato sounds almost non-existent,


That might be because many (most?) of the notes were not being played legato. A lot of people in this thread were expecting extensive use of legato, it seems. (And it also seems that legato was not yet ready for most of the sections.)
And saying it sounds like a 15 year old library? I'm confused by a lot of your comments - abrupt releases? inconsistent tone? I'm struggling to hear it. I went to the time span you pointed out and I started scratching my head; it sounds no worse than any other libraries out right now, if not any better.


----------



## Eptesicus

yes it was quite reassuring to know that they did not have access to the legato slur patches. I think the legato slur is where we would hear the nice connected lines we were expecting to hear.


----------



## Lotias

Eptesicus said:


> yes it was quite reassuring to know that they did not have access to the legato slur patches. I think the legato slur is where we would hear the nice connected lines we were expecting to hear.


Personally I wasn't really looking for legato, but the overall performance. I think there's a bizarre obsession with legato on this forum, like somehow people got the idea that 90% of string ensemble playing is done legato.


----------



## Vischebaste

Christof said:


> Loading times and performance!If you have time you can use a normal HD, but I wouldn't recommend it.



Thanks Cristof. The load times don't bother me, but performance issues would. I've never had performance issues running ~100 tracks of my libraries from a dedicated 7200rpm drive, so I'm trying to get an idea of if there is anything specific/distinct about this library that causes you to say this?


----------



## Christof

To answer your question I would need to copy all my content from my SSD to a 7200rpm drive and give it a try.
Unfortunately I am not able to do this yet...


----------



## Saxer

Lotias said:


> Personally I wasn't really looking for legato, but the overall performance. I think there's a bizarre obsession with legato on this forum, like somehow people got the idea that 90% of string ensemble playing is done legato.


Until a few years ago 'legato' was the holy grail of sampling. I do midi stuff for decades now and I remember it was the most missing feature for me... until VSL and Kontakt scripting appeared. It seems to keep that state of importance.


----------



## Vischebaste

Christof said:


> To answer your question I would need to copy all my content from my SSD to a 7200rpm drive and give it a try.
> Unfortunately I am not able to do this yet...



No problems, thanks for the info Christof.


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> to be honest it's more due to my enthusiast attitude towards VI's. Synchron sounds like it's a close 2nd place in terms of raw and real sound/tone only behind by Spitfire. I can't judge fully yet since it's in Beta and also haven't had the chance to touch and play it but, the playability/responsiveness will ultimately be the deciding factor if I were to choose in between Spitfire/Synchron. So yes, I'm hearing some very organic sounds that's quite similar to Spitfire's tone.



Demo from Spitfire are always better than the product itself, because they really know how to sell products (candies demos and massive post production). The opposite for VSL.
The walkthrough of Spitfire SS shows how they really sound. The legato sounds fake and most of all the scalable vibrato is very bad. But they have plenty of patches with very expressive playing.
The sound of Spitfire is already quite post produced imo. You shoul take it into account. If you don t know what to do after composing, it s a nice thing. But there are also cons


----------



## Lotias

Saxer said:


> Until a few years ago 'legato' was the holy grail of sampling. I do midi stuff for decades now and I remember it was the most missing feature for me... until VSL and Kontakt scripting appeared. It seems to keep that state of importance.


Of course; true legato is incredibly important to the sound of a convincing mockup, but I was only commenting on everyone's reaction to demos that didn't really use much legato in the first place.


----------



## Sovereign

Lotias said:


> Of course; true legato is incredibly important to the sound of a convincing mockup, but I was only commenting on everyone's reaction to demos that didn't really use much legato in the first place.


I guess that's the point, people want to hear how it sounds.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Lotias said:


> Personally I wasn't really looking for legato, but the overall performance. I think there's a bizarre obsession with legato on this forum, like somehow people got the idea that 90% of string ensemble playing is done legato.



Not obsessed with legato. Actually I have always said that sometimes it ruins more than it does good (that's mainly because of bad programming though). But VSL invented the legato interval recordings! I presumed they would be all over this and implement this in a great way, just like they did many, many years ago with their first strings+woodwinds.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Lotias said:


> That might be because many (most?) of the notes were not being played legato. A lot of people in this thread were expecting extensive use of legato, it seems. (And it also seems that legato was not yet ready for most of the sections.)
> And saying it sounds like a 15 year old library? I'm confused by a lot of your comments - abrupt releases? inconsistent tone? I'm struggling to hear it. I went to the time span you pointed out and I started scratching my head; it sounds no worse than any other libraries out right now, if not any better.



OK, nothing I can do about that - my ears must just be better


----------



## Lotias

Sovereign said:


> I guess that's the point, people want to hear how it sounds.


They want to hear it so much they start saying the transitions sound dodgy where there aren't meant to be any.


----------



## camelot

Lotias said:


> Personally I wasn't really looking for legato, but the overall performance. I think there's a bizarre obsession with legato on this forum, like somehow people got the idea that 90% of string ensemble playing is done legato.



That is true on one hand, but what do we get offered from the libraries?

Commonly, the ordinary longs seem to be recorded starting from absolute silence with the instrument(the strings) in a totally unexcited state and a long attack. This is suitable for the beginning of a phrase and is still working for long pads. When I try to use the longs for a sequence of quarter notes, it does not work, and sometimes not even for half notes. Maybe I am expecting some certain sound between the notes that might not be written in the notes but is created by the real instrument and has nothing to do with connecting the notes willingly by the player or any kind of slur effect. Sometimes shortening the attack helps to a certain extend, if the option is offered by the lib.

The same goes for short notes. Commonly, I only get staccato and similar accented articulations for short notes in the libs. But not every short note is meant to be a staccato, which is an accented note to me. A problem for me when I mockup scores that are meant for a real orchestra. When I see a sequence of 1/8 or 1/16 notes, what am I going to choose from the lib when the notes do not have a dot or a similar accent symbol?

This is how samples force me to write with samples in mind. So, generally my writing with samples is limited to pads with longs, melodic lines with legato and accents or arpeggios with staccatos and their kind. But the music in my head has much more variation that I cannot realize with samples.


----------



## NoamL

Sorry folks, I'm trying to listen as critically as you but both demos sound great to me. The only thing I don't like about these strings is the room (which is like turning down caviar... but hey, tastes differ...).



Christof said:


> Actually I shouldn't care about negative comments, but this one hits me personally.
> It makes me feel that I don't know what I'm doing.



No! You're a great composer @Christof !

Maybe to convince that other poster you should mock up another piece with SynchronStrings... one of your most *celebrated* works on VIC... a piece that we have all heard eight hundred times before...  you know of what I speak!!


----------



## Lotias

camelot said:


> That is true on one hand, but what do we get offered from the libraries?
> 
> Commonly, the ordinary longs seem to be recorded starting from absolute silence with the instrument(the strings) in a totally unexcited state and a long attack. This is suitable for the beginning of a phrase and is still working for long pads. When I try to use the longs for a sequence of quarter notes, it does not work, and sometimes not even for half notes. Maybe I am expecting some certain sound between the notes that might not be written in the notes but is created by the real instrument and has nothing to do with connecting the notes willingly by the player or any kind of slur effect. Sometimes shortening the attack helps to a certain extend, if the option is offered by the lib.
> 
> The same goes for short notes. Commonly, I only get staccato and similar accented articulations for short notes in the libs. But not every short note is meant to be a staccato, which is an accented note to me. A problem for me when I mockup scores that are meant for a real orchestra. When I see a sequence of 1/8 or 1/16 notes, what am I going to choose from the lib when the notes do not have a dot or a similar accent symbol?
> 
> This is how samples force me to write with samples in mind. So, generally my writing with samples is limited to pads with longs, melodic lines with legato and accents or arpeggios with staccatos and their kind. But the music in my head has much more variation that I cannot realize with samples.


To answer a lot of that, we'd have to first see what the Synchron Player does, and how the 10 repetitions on long notes react. In older libraries, VSL did certain things to help with that - legato repetition patches for rebowing, marcato patches for sustains with harder attacks, and so on. Spitfire attempts to solve some of this with their Performance Legato patches. I don't know how other developers claim to attack that problem.
As for your example of short non-accented notes, you would first have to define what technique _is_ being played. If it's legato, VSL offers performance trills or fast legato. If they're not played legato (individual bows on each note but not staccato), you could choose from a variety of things such as marcato (and I know that is technically accented as well, but what works for a phrase is not always the literal articulation you are looking for) - you'd really have to explore the articulations of the library you're given to find the answer to that question. It would also depend on the sequence of short notes!
Samples can't play everything, but I wonder what libraries you are using that are that limited. A lot of libraries today can handle quick phrases with some degree of competency. Although I wonder what all your thoughts have to do with what I was saying in the first place; I was _not_ saying that legato is not important.


----------



## Christof

NoamL said:


> Maybe to convince that other poster you should mock up another piece with SynchronStrings... one of your most *celebrated* works on VIC... a piece that we have all heard eight hundred times before...  you know of what I speak!!


No, I won't do the robber again.He is in prison now


----------



## NoamL

camelot said:


> When I try to use the longs for a sequence of quarter notes, it does not work, and sometimes not even for half notes. Maybe I am expecting some certain sound between the notes that might not be written in the notes but is created by the real instrument and has nothing to do with connecting the notes willingly by the player or any kind of slur effect. Sometimes shortening the attack helps to a certain extend, if the option is offered by the lib.



You're correct, there needs to be a "bow change" sample between notes that are played detache. In effect the developers need to sample up and down an octave all 24 transitions with bow change, the same as they do with legato... which would double the size and price of the libraries, btw. Right now most libraries only have bow change samples for when you repeat the same note. 



> A problem for me when I mockup scores that are meant for a real orchestra. When I see a sequence of 1/8 or 1/16 notes, what am I going to choose from the lib when the notes do not have a dot or a similar accent symbol?



Indeed. It's very arguable that the current trend of writing for VIs - steady perpetual-motion spiccato ostinatos on strings, huge massed brass lines - has to do with the design of the VIs and what they are best suited to perform.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Lotias said:


> They want to hear it so much they start saying the transitions sound dodgy where there aren't meant to be any.



So, the long, sustained notes in sequence, are not supposed to be connected? Got it.


----------



## Lotias

NoamL said:


> You're correct, there needs to be a "bow change" sample between notes that are played detache. In effect the developers need to sample up and down an octave all 24 transitions with bow change, the same as they do with legato... which would double the size and price of the libraries, btw. Right now most libraries only have bow change samples for when you repeat the same note.
> 
> 
> Indeed. It's very arguable that the current trend of writing for VIs - steady perpetual-motion spiccato ostinatos on strings, huge massed brass lines - has to do with the design of the VIs and what they are best suited to perform.


Some libraries do offer bow change legato, but some people (such as Chris Hein) have noted that there doesn't seem to be much difference between recording the interval and just the bowing itself, and honestly I have trouble telling the difference as well. I would attribute it more to that it is _difficult_ to learn how to do more nuanced things with samples, because if you do not control the nuance it can turn into quite a mess.


Simon Ravn said:


> So, long, sustained notes, are not supposed to be connected? Got it.


Sometimes, no. It turns out there are a myriad of ways to play long sustained notes that are, in fact, _not_ legato. There might even be technical reasons behind that, for you see, the length of a bow is not infinite. The composer might not even want the notes to be fully connected for that phrase.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Lotias said:


> Some libraries do offer bow change legato, but some people (such as Chris Hein) have noted that there doesn't seem to be much difference between recording the interval and just the bowing itself, and honestly I have trouble telling the difference as well. I would attribute it more to that it is _difficult_ to learn how to do more nuanced things with samples, because if you do not control the nuance it can turn into quite a mess.
> 
> Sometimes, no. It turns out there are a myriad of ways to play long sustained notes that are, in fact, _not_ legato. There might even be technical reasons behind that, for you see, the length of a bow is not infinite. The composer might not even want the notes to be fully connected for that phrase.



I know that all long notes are not supposed to be played legato. But in many parts during this track, that was clearly the case - it just didn't work very well, sounded very unconnected and fake.


----------



## novaburst

Vischebaste said:


> (7200 rpm or faster)" on VSL's website. Just trying to get a handle on why Christof says that an SSD would be required, as it doubles the cost of the investment



SSD are the recommended drives to use of late with large library's, it does make a lot of sense


----------



## Tfis

With the stage's "baked in" reverb, i don't know if it will be possible to reach the same legato quality which vsl is known for.
There allways will be a reverb tail from the 1st note, when you play the 2nd.
I think that's very difficult to edit.


----------



## Lotias

Simon Ravn said:


> I know that all long notes are not supposed to be played legato. But in many parts during this track, that was clearly he case - it just didn't work very well, sounded very unconnected and fake.


'Clearly the case' is doubtful, even if I can't hear what you are complaining about in the first place. Did you happen to notice that in the sheet music in the video, in the time you specified, there was no notation calling for legato at all? Are you sure that you are not confusing 'clearly the case' with 'I would have composed this differently'? Why, in fact, it's a little blurry, but I also seem to see little dots that say the notes should be _accented_. In combination with _tenuto_. Which means the notes are being played detached on purpose.


----------



## Critz

Lotias said:


> 'Clearly the case' is doubtful, even if I can't hear what you are complaining about in the first place. Did you happen to notice that in the sheet music in the video, in the time you specified, there was no notation calling for legato at all? Are you sure that you are not confusing 'clearly the case' with 'I would have composed this differently'? Why, in fact, it's a little blurry, but I also seem to see little dots that say the notes should be _accented_. In combination with _tenuto_. Which means the notes are being played detached on purpose.


The score shows bowings, and that's the point: those passages sound everything but 2 notes on the same bow.


----------



## Lotias

Critz said:


> The score shows bowings, and that's the point: those passages sound everything but 2 notes on the same bow.


Possibly because you uh, don't play detache on the same bow.


----------



## rottoy

Tfis said:


> With the stage's "baked in" reverb, i don't know if it will be possible to reach the same legato quality which vsl is known for.
> There allways will be a reverb tail from the 1st note, when you play the 2nd.
> I think that's very difficult to edit.


The way it's usually done is to program the release tails to deactivate when playing legato.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Lotias said:


> 'Clearly the case' is doubtful, even if I can't hear what you are complaining about in the first place. Did you happen to notice that in the sheet music in the video, in the time you specified, there was no notation calling for legato at all? Are you sure that you are not confusing 'clearly the case' with 'I would have composed this differently'? Why, in fact, it's a little blurry, but I also seem to see little dots that say the notes should be _accented_. In combination with _tenuto_. Which means the notes are being played detached on purpose.



0:51-0:54 in the video - 1st vlns - those are not supposed to be connected, but sound with "suction effect"? C'mon... a string section would never play that like this. You don't have to call for legato by writing "legato" in sheet music to make musicians aware it should be legato. There are even slurring marks here....

"Little dots"? You're not talking about the dots after each note here are you....? Because those are pretty self-explanatory


----------



## jamwerks

Tfis said:


> With the stage's "baked in" reverb, i don't know if it will be possible to reach the same legato quality which vsl is known for.
> There allways will be a reverb tail from the 1st note, when you play the 2nd.
> I think that's very difficult to edit.


In a real performance, the previous note rings out also, so no problem here imo.


----------



## Lotias

Simon Ravn said:


> 0:51-0:54 in the video - 1st vlns - those are not supposed to be connected, but sound with "suction effect"? C'mon... a string section would never play that like this. You don't have to call for legato by writing "legato" in sheet music to make musicians aware it should be legato. There are even slurring marks here....


I realize that, I was pointing out the specific time you specified in the cellos was_ literally_ marked detache. I hear a little of what you are complaining about _there_ at 0:51, but also note that I am mostly hearing the suction effect between the slur markings and not during them.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

NoamL said:


> You're correct, there needs to be a "bow change" sample between notes that are played detache. In effect the developers need to sample up and down an octave all 24 transitions with bow change, the same as they do with legato...



That's _exactly_ the one thing that drives me nuts the most about string libraries. It's like the most essential thing that no string library can do right. Apparently not a lot of people really care though.



> It's very arguable that the current trend of writing for VIs - steady perpetual-motion spiccato ostinatos on strings, huge massed brass lines - has to do with the design of the VIs and what they are best suited to perform.



I'm convinced that that's the case.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Lotias said:


> I realize that, I was pointing out the specific time you specified in the cellos was_ literally_ marked detache. I hear a little of what you are complaining about _there_ at 0:51, but also note that I am mostly hearing the suction effect between the slur markings and not during them.



Whatever - my point is, as already said in my first post: This sounds worse than what I can achieve with many other libraries today. Less realistic FWIW.


----------



## jamwerks

Critz said:


> Demo from Spitfire are always far better than the product itself, because they really know how to sell products (candies demos and massive post production...


Wow, that's quite a charge. When you say something, you ought to back it up. What kind of magic post production do they do? Maybe it's just people who know what they are doing...


----------



## Critz

Simon Ravn said:


> 0:51-0:54 in the video - 1st vlns - those are not supposed to be connected, but sound with "suction effect"? C'mon... a string section would never play that like this. You don't have to call for legato by writing "legato" in sheet music to make musicians aware it should be legato. There are even slurring marks here....
> 
> "Little dots"? You're not talking about the dots after each note here are you....? Because those are pretty self-explanatory


EXACTLY. That's the perfect example of what Dimension Strings sucks with. A real and good strings section would play that passage like a continuous line. Like a good singer would do. And don't tell me it was intentional, because is really nonmusical other that fake sounding.


----------



## Critz

jamwerks said:


> Wow, that's quite a charge. When you say something, you ought to back it up. What kind of magic post production do they do? Maybe it's just people who know what they are doing...


exactly. But then if you don't have the same skill in EQ sections, compress, (other than orchestrate like them), you won't achieve the same results. Also, everything here asked to hear VSL demos without percussions, since the very first trailer. Do the same with Spitfire demos, and let's listen how strings really sounds.


----------



## Lotias

Simon Ravn said:


> Whatever - my point is, as already said in my first post: This sounds worse than what I can achieve with many other libraries today. Less realistic FWIW.


Honestly, I hear nothing magic about this library over other modern libraries regardless of my disagreement about realism (and I do hear your complaint much better at 0:51 than at 1:14, there is a little bit of suction in the slur markings, though I am not too sure of my ears). So I see where you are coming from, but would still say maybe you are too harsh, but that might just be because I am reserving a lot of judgement until the library & Synchron Player are completely ready and have heard demos of _that_.


Spoiler



Partially because I personally enjoy the sound of the Synchron Stage a lot and want it to be a fantastic library.


----------



## jamwerks

Critz said:


> exactly. But then if you don't have the same skill in EQ sections, compress, (other than orchestrate like them), you won't achieve the same results...


Demos from all of us (and all devs) use compression and eq. Nothing underhanded about that. On one video SF even provides info on eq'ing strings.


----------



## Critz

jamwerks said:


> Demos from all of us (and all devs) use compression and eq. Nothing underhanded about that. On one video SF even provides info on eq'ing strings.


I m not saying their demos are fake. I meant they know how to achieve the best from their libraries, and they show that. Their demos are almost perfect, no fake sounding passages or weak points exposed. It was a compliment indeed.
Or better, it was a criticism against VSL, that makes bad demos since years. It's not my word. It's a fact, given by the fact people always listened to demos and have never been interested in VSL. Only old customers (like I am) still shows interest because they know the pros to use VSL product. That means something, or not?


----------



## Symfoniq

I think perhaps what Critz is getting at is that Spitfire's demos do a fantastic job avoiding the weaknesses of their libraries. Some would call that clever marketing, while others would call it common sense. VSL's demos have never been their strong point, but perhaps that is because they don't avoid the rough edges of their libraries.

I've never bought a VSL library and thought I was getting something that sounded different than it actually did. There are very few other sample developers I can say that about.


----------



## novaburst

When all the dust settles, its not what you hear from the demos that count, its what *you* can do with the library that matters.

whiles its nice to hear demos and I will never understand why people hang their hopes on demos and use it as the deal breaker or the trigger pull,

What ever you hear in the demos weather its every thing you want to hear or not you will still find things that disappoint you, and things that don't satisfy you, there are not many library's out there that can give you 100% satisfaction or you all would not be hear, if a library gave 99% satisfaction I guarantee many would be talking about the 1% that did not satisfy.

It is your Daw and midi skills and the time you spend with these skills that can bring out the best out of a library, knowledge, time spent with the library, knowing your way around midi application pushes your library to more than what its worth, or gets the best from your library.

The library only goes part of the way, the rest is up to you and your software, there will never be a one shot library there are too many different levels of skills in general real life music, skills in hearing, and skills in real life instruments.

I can see already these variables, from reading post on this thread its almost like you want the library to be an instant gratification with the minimum in put from yourself, I suggest its time to get real that just is not going to happen, you don't give it the time and dedication it requires then the results are going to be poor and I guess what comes after that is complaints about the product your using.


----------



## Critz

Symfoniq said:


> I think perhaps what Critz is getting at is that Spitfire's demos do a fantastic job avoiding the weaknesses of their libraries. Some would call that clever marketing, while others would call it common sense. VSL's demos have never been their strong point, but perhaps that is because they don't avoid the rough edges of their libraries.
> 
> I've never bought a VSL library and thought I was getting something that sounded different than it actually did. There are very few other sample developers I can say that about.


Exactly. But now I started to think that for the VSL team this stuff sounds how it's supposed to sound. Because those "rough edges" remain the same among all their strings libraries. 
If this library will be disappointing in terms of coincistency, I'll quit VSL this time. I always admired their softwares side, but it's time to care to the sound too. And if this library is just about "intelligence performance patch", well, there's nothing new for users. Maybe it could sound new to people who used only VSL for their entire life..


----------



## Critz

novaburst said:


> When all the dust settles, its not what you hear from the demos that count, its what *you* can do with the library that matters.
> 
> whiles its nice to hear demos and I will never understand why people hang their hopes on demos and use it as the deal breaker or the trigger pull,
> 
> What ever you hear in the demos weather its every thing you want to hear or not you will still find things that disappoint you, and things that don't satisfy you, there are not many library's out there that can give you 100% satisfaction or you all would not be hear, if a library gave 99% satisfaction I guarantee many would be talking about the 1% that did not satisfy.
> 
> It is your Daw and midi skills and the time you spend with these skills that can bring out the best out of a library, knowledge, time spent with the library, knowing your way around midi application pushes your library to more than what its worth, or gets the best from your library.
> 
> The library only goes part of the way, the rest is up to you and your software, there will never be a one shot library there are too many different levels of skills in general real life music, skills in hearing, and skills in real life instruments.
> 
> I can see already these variables, from reading post on this thread its almost like you want the library to be an instant gratification with the minimum in put from yourself, I suggest its time to get real that just is not going to happen, you don't give it the time and dedication it requires then the results are going to be poor and I guess what comes after that is complaints about the product your using.



I understand what you mean..but then you're saying you need to practice with this library to get a decent legato? Where's the re-invented legato then?
You are also saying that if the demo sounds bad is the fault of two experienced composers (and virtual orchestrators) that work for and closely to VSL? 
I don't rely on demos. Demos could sound fantastic and the library could still disappoint you after the purchase. But if demos are disappointing...


----------



## Saxer

Lets simply wait until the library is ready (including the player). Everything else is talking against the wall. 
What the demos show really well: the sound! I really like what I hear and that it doesn't sound like other libraries. So glad it's not drown in reverb tails! I'm impressed by the depth and clarity without blurring. 
I'm not at all afraid that the library will have legato problems or whatever. Not a single VSL library ever had those problems. Maybe in the current state but it's work in progress. They know their standards and won't skip them just because of a different recording location.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Symfoniq said:


> I've never bought a VSL library and thought I was getting something that sounded different than it actually did. There are very few other sample developers I can say that about.



I can agree with that 100%. I don't know of any library other than VSL that can convincingly do music by Bach, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Copland and John Williams. The only other credible attempts I have heard are @AlexanderSchiborr using Spitfire products to do some classical works and the "Fawkes" mockup by @NoamL (truly awesome after pro mixing), and I fully expect that Synchron Strings will be an awesome tool. I think VSL is taking their time with the release in order to work out some kinks. I wish every developer had the same commitment to quality that VSL has demonstrated over the years.


----------



## ctsai89

holywilly said:


> Just ordered another Blackmagic Multidock II, and I suggest @ctsai89 to do the same. :D



My god don't harass my wallet like that!


----------



## C-Wave

I am using Gigabyte Aorus motherboard with built-in 3xslots of m.2 SSDs. supports striping.
Edit: Sorry didn’t want to take the thread in that path.. but I won’ delete, maybe will help someone.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> I always admired their softwares side, but it's time to care to the sound too.



But it sounds great.


----------



## Casiquire

It's funny, a common theme on these forums is that demos from the manufacturer often sound good to the point of being almost misleading, but mention it in the context of Spitfire and suddenly it's a crime


----------



## Critz

Casiquire said:


> It's funny, a common theme on these forums is that demos from the manufacturer often sound good to the point of being almost misleading, but mention it in the context of Spitfire and suddenly it's a crime


It's not Spitfire. Every company but VSL makes great sounding demos according to the library capabilities


----------



## artomatic

I preordered this in October. Since then I heard 8Dio’s Century Strings series. I don’t own any 8Dio library but I own most of VSL’s strings and other libraries. I love Dimension Strings! But when I heard the two demos the moment they were released, I requested a refund. Nothing against the 2 brilliant composers who I truly admire here but Synchron’s inherent sound. I guess my expectations were a bit high. I know Synchron will excell in many levels and may be a breakthrough in many areas. And I will continue to buy VSL’s products. 
But I was captivated by Century Strings’ sound as a whole. Nothing to do with the number of velocity layers and articulations, the room they were recorded in or the software that runs it. It’s not all about the other technical nuances this time. It’s the sound of the library, as a whole, that influenced my decision to purchase 8Dio’s CS when released. It’s simply a personal preference. 
All the best. Happy composing!


----------



## CT

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> But it sounds great.



Not for all of us, but that shouldn't take anything away from those who are loving it. There are more than enough flavors of virtual strings to go around.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

miket said:


> Not for all of us, but that shouldn't take anything away from those who are loving it. There are more than enough flavors of virtual strings to go around.



Of course. But that's the point: the post I quoted made it sound as if the sound was in fact bad - as if it was some kind of established fact - so bad that apparently the company didn't care to pay attention to the tone at all. This thread has already taken ridiculous turns several times.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Of course. But that's the point: the post I quoted made it sound as if the sound was in fact bad - as if it was some kind of established fact - so bad that apparently the company didn't care to pay attention to the tone at all. This thread has already taken ridiculous turns several times.


To me the general recording is quite outstanding. As it was for Synchron Percussion, the clearity of bass frequencies is incredible. That said, the tone of strings is not the more pleasent of the world, but it's normal because as usual with VSL, we're speaking about very clean and neutral samples, that you can EQ and process yourself.
The problem is that I'm afraid this library will lose any comparison against a library like CSS when it comes to play a simple melody. Because at least to me, listening to this demo, Synchron Strings suffer of the same oddities of previous strings library from VSL.
At the same time I'm pretty confident Synchron Brass and Woodwinds will be amazing. Because VSL Brass and Woodwinds are already pretty amazing.


----------



## muk

Critz said:


> The problem is that I'm afraid this library will lose any comparison against a library like CSS when it comes to play a simple melody.



That will depend heavily on the melody I'd suspect. CSS is amazing for certain things, but it has a very specific sound signature (a very different one from Synchron Strings, by the way). Where that sound signature doesn't really fit there are more natural choices. When you want a transparent tone, or restrained playing - for example for neoclassical music - CSS will not be the best option. Specific libraries for specific purposes I guess. Claiming that Synchron Strings will loose any comparison to CSS for melodic playing seems to be quite a long shot. Especially given the fact that programming on Synchron Strings hasn't even finished yet, and nobody has had a chance to test the finished product yet.


----------



## Sovereign

muk said:


> That will depend heavily on the melody I'd suspect. CSS is amazing for certain things, but it has a very specific sound signature (a very different one from Synchron Strings, by the way). Where that sound signature doesn't really fit there are more natural choices. When you want a transparent tone, or restrained playing - for example for neoclassical music - CSS will not be the best option. Specific libraries for specific purposes I guess. Claiming that Synchron Strings will loose any comparison to CSS for melodic playing seems to be quite a long shot. Especially given the fact that programming on Synchron Strings hasn't even finished yet, and nobody has had a chance to test the finished product yet.


Yes, let's not draw premature conclusions.

Guy, if you're still reading this, would you be so kind and also post a 'dry' version of your hatchling demo?


----------



## eli0s

Christof said:


> Maybe this helps a bit:



Dear @Christof , do you mind if I post a take of your wonderful composition here, made by using CSS?
Since this isn't an official/commercial post, perhaps a comparison with an other established library can be of use, without offending anyone!
That is of course if @muziksculp also doesn't mind, since this is his post.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Sovereign said:


> Yes, let's not draw premature conclusions.
> 
> Guy, if you're still reading this, would you be so kind and also post a 'dry' version of your hatchling demo?



Demos are not meant to be dissected, and that isn't my job, the objective is to show how a piece could sound with with synchron strings. What I can say is that the piece was written using a bit of MIRacle. I'm working on other demos which I think will give more variety and hope to post soon, however you may have to wait for Paul's walk through for the kind of specifications you want.


----------



## duanran007

eli0s said:


> Dear @Christof , do you mind if I post a take of your wonderful composition here, made by using CSS?
> Since this isn't an official/commercial post, perhaps a comparison with an other established library can be of use, without offending anyone!
> That is of course if @muziksculp also doesn't mind, since this is his post.



Edit: My bad, somehow I misunderstood your question


----------



## CT

Sovereign said:


> Yes, let's not draw premature conclusions.
> 
> Guy, if you're still reading this, would you be so kind and also post a 'dry' version of your hatchling demo?



This would be useful to hear. MIR-less, especially, since my ears have never felt that MIR does VI's any favors.


----------



## Guy Bacos

miket said:


> This would be useful to hear. MIR-less, especially, since my ears have never felt that MIR does VI's any favors.



This is just 2 demos, there will be plenty of demos.


----------



## Christof

eli0s said:


> Dear @Christof , do you mind if I post a take of your wonderful composition here, made by using CSS?
> Since this isn't an official/commercial post, perhaps a comparison with an other established library can be of use, without offending anyone!
> That is of course if @muziksculp also doesn't mind, since this is his post.


It's up to you.


----------



## Zhao Shen

Casiquire said:


> It's funny, a common theme on these forums is that demos from the manufacturer often sound good to the point of being almost misleading, but mention it in the context of Spitfire and suddenly it's a crime


This forum is absolutely not the place to be if you want unbiased, informative discussions about Spitfire Audio's products. You might want to try The Sound Board for that. That being said, I think Spitfire's pretty good with not misleading their customers. Their demos are usually pretty representative of the product, plus they're accompanied with really nice in-depth walkthroughs.


----------



## Arbee

Given these two great "beta demos" are just an early taste of the library without full use of the new sample set or software, I find this thread is getting...well...a little "weird" to be honest .


----------



## eli0s

@Christof , Thank you!

@duanran007 , I won't post someone else's work with out his or her permission.

So, here it is, I hope I got it right!


-edit- oh boy, soundcloud really messes things up with the compression!- :O 

Some info and thoughts: CSS use the default mix microphones. The track has no EQ or additional reverb whatsoever. I put a limiter on the master bus to raise the overall volume, other than that there is no mixing or mastering.
Only CCs used are CC1 for dynamics and CC2 for vibrato control.

I am addicted to the movie sound CSS bring to the table, so I find their sound unbeatable. The legato is also a joy to work with, however, I find the shorts to be somewhat inconsistent both in timings and in dynamics. As a result, I couldn't get something as fluid and coherent as the staccatos in Christof's track. Perhaps it is my fault, I rarely use short ostinatos, I am more of a legato guy 

I believe that both composers had to work without any legato patches in Synchron Strings, however lightly they put it 
The connections between the notes are no détaché bowings, they are simply the sustain patches imo. I am certain that in time we will hear the reinvented legato. How good it will be is yet to find out!!


----------



## Christof

Yes, it sounds totally different, much more intimate and dryer. VSL has a more classical approach, well, we are in Vienna.
You should have used the shortest spiccato patches in CSS, the staccato ones don't really work here.


----------



## Sovereign

Christof said:


> Yes, it sounds totally different, much more intimate and dryer. VSL has a more classical approach, well, we are in Vienna.


Considering VSL says on their site "_Synchron Strings I_ was performed by the string section of the _Synchron Stage Orchestra_ – with the same passion and perseverance as these top-notch musicians have played scores for Inferno, The Crown, Lego Batman, Ghost in the Shell, Comrade Detective, The MEG, Sky Hunter, and the latest BBC production Blue Planet II by Hans Zimmer", a "classical approach" is not what we should be expecting.


----------



## Arbee

Very interesting comparison, which of course just leads to more curiosity. I wonder how this sounds with VSL Orchestral Strings (I sadly only have the SE version of this due to $) in MIR Teldex. I only ask as, to be totally honest, I wasn't crazy about the Synchron MIR sound and this perhaps just confirms my preferred taste for other venues.


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

just a quick question - are synchron strings Vln1 Vln2 Vla Cl and B? Somehow I was under the Impression it would just include Violins and Celli?
The Low Shorts in Christofs Demo are sounding phenomenal. I can't remember to hear anything that tight and yet powerful from an Orchestral Library


----------



## Sovereign

rocking.xmas.man said:


> just a quick question - are synchron strings Vln1 Vln2 Vla Cl and B? Somehow I was under the Impression it would just include Violins and Celli?


It's the whole string orchestra, yes.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

eli0s said:


> @Christof , Thank you!
> 
> @duanran007 , I won't post someone else's work with out his or her permission.
> 
> So, here it is, I hope I got it right!




That's a very interesting comparison, thanks for that! As expected, CSS sounds way more creamy, broad, thick and "romantic". It's a completely different sound, which I believe many will prefer, because that appears to be the expected sound in the current climate. I guess some people hoped that VSL would adopt this kind of aesthetic with their new line of libraries, which was already apparent that they wouldn't do when Synchron Percussion came out.

The first half of the piece works well with both libraries, but with very different results. CSS sounds schmaltzy and animated, while SS is regal and elegant. Can't really say which one I prefer, because the aesthetics are so different and I can appreciate what both of them bring to the table.

The second half sounds better with SS IMO. I thought it sounded way more dynamic, open and produced a more realisic perception of the depth of the sound stage. I think this also has to do with the fact that here, the arrangement opens up and introduces a steady pulse with pizzicato and spiccato. Passages of sustained notes and harmonies are the easiest thing to make sound good with sampled strings, but only listening to legatos and long chords sometimes doesn't tell you the full truth about a library. I feel that in the SS version, it all just comes together more naturally and sounds less like "multiple MIDI tracks playing stuff".

Maybe it's also just the somewhat limited range of dynamics of CSS, which is one of the few "weaknesses" of that library. It's still probably my favorite string lib nonetheless.

The other takeaway for me is that I doubt that there was actually any performance legato to be heard in these SS demos. I suspect that those patches aren't even finished yet.


----------



## Eptesicus

I prefer the synchron version a lot more. The CSS one above sounds muddier.

The only thing i don't like about the syncrhon version is some of the transitions between notes


----------



## eli0s

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The second half sounds better with SS IMO. I thought it sounded way more dynamic, open and produced a more realisic perception of the depth of the sound stage. I think this also has to do with the fact that here, the arrangement opens up and introduces a steady pulse with pizzicato and spiccato. Passages of sustained notes and harmonies are the easiest thing to make sound good with sampled strings, but only listening to legatos and long chords sometimes doesn't tell you the full truth about a library. I feel that in the SS version, it all just comes together more naturally and sounds less like "multiple MIDI tracks playing stuff".



You are absolutely right. I think this is an error from my part. I will take Christof's advise and use the spiccato patches instead of the staccato. I chose the staccato because it sounded closer in timbre with the original track, however it does loose a lot in movement. I'll post the updated track tomorrow.


----------



## kimarnesen

Eptesicus said:


> I prefer the synchron version a lot more. The CSS one above sounds muddier.
> 
> The only thing i don't like about the syncrhon version is some of the transitions between notes



Me too, Synchron Strings sounds more present, like if you're in a real concert hall.


----------



## novaburst

eli0s said:


> I couldn't get something as fluid and coherent as the staccatos in Christof's track.



The staccatos in Christofis is a killer, they had a lot of clarity and cut through nicely this is what set the piece up.
the playing style is different but it held out ok, nice play ability.

As for the tone and sound CSS is mellow almost expected sound and tone that pleases all, not sure if this was your limiter use, or the difference between Soundcloud and youtube.

Synchron has a candy buttery sound and sharpness that is kind of appealing, kind of like every instrument was fitted with new strings and using new bows, its the kind of tone I have been searching for a long time.

nice demo and post very glad to hear it.


----------



## Critz

Christof said:


> Yes, it sounds totally different, much more intimate and dryer. VSL has a more classical approach, well, we are in Vienna.
> You should have used the shortest spiccato patches in CSS, the staccato ones don't really work here.


With all due respect, maybe it's time to change or try someone else in the team. I don't think the problem are players, but how they ask them to play.
I know how clean and perfect austrian musician can be. So perfect that even 14 players sounds like a smaller size, probably because a perfect tuning and cohesion.
I was really hoping for a better (I mean more enjoyable) cellos sound, that I never liked in previous VSL libraries. At the end of the day, the music we mockup will be heard from directors or listeners, which doesn t care if it's an orchestra from Vienna. They care of a beautiful and emotional sound. It's Synchron Series, not Mozarteum Series; sorry if someone here was expecting a library focussed on scoring for movies.


----------



## Christof

Well, VSL strings never have been "Hollywood".
But let's see what they can do once we have the whole section in our hands, I am optimistic.


----------



## Critz

About CSS, it has a pleasent sound, we know it. But it's clearly a very processed library, at least in terms of EQ. And you can't change it; you take it as it is. Also, as someone suggested, after less than 1 minutes you feel it sounds like a library.
Synchron Strings are very realistic sounding, but because of some oddities it sounds fake in the performance, more than CSS.
That what I was talking about. If VSL would have a single patch of legato that works fine on those common passages as CSS does, that would be something.


----------



## holywilly

VSL Strings are always my strings of choice for mock up, they sound great, highly playable, and very CPU friendly. 

After listening to the two demos, I almost pull the trigger on Synchron Strings. One thing hold me back is how much computing resources are required for this massive library; 200+ GB of disk space and RAM requires for multiple mic position.

I wish the new Synchron Strings I is as efficient as the other VSL string libraries. Nowadays most of my compositions will recorded live, before recording I have to deliver realism mock-up to clients for approval, and I’m highly anticipating on this new set of writing tool to make my mock-up to the next level of realism. 

Looking forward to the video walkthrough!!


----------



## Sovereign

holywilly said:


> After listening to the two demos, I almost pull the trigger on Synchron Strings. One thing hold me back is how much computing resources are required for this massive library; 200+ GB of disk space and RAM requires for multiple mic position.


Apparently they are memory hungry, they'll take up several gigabytes per section I believe I read. It won't harm me much as I have 96GB in my machine already, but others with less memory might feel the pressure.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> With all due respect, maybe it's time to change or try someone else in the team. I don't think the problem are players, but how they ask them to play.
> I know how clean and perfect austrian musician can be. So perfect that even 14 players sounds like a smaller size, probably because a perfect tuning and cohesion.
> I was really hoping for a better (I mean more enjoyable) cellos sound. At the end of the day, the music we mockup will be heard from directors or listeners, which doesn t care if it's an orchestra from Vienna. They care of a beautiful and emotional sound. It's Synchron Series, not Mozarteum Series; sorry if someone here was expecting a library focussed on scoring for movies.



I get what you're saying. But I'd prefer them to stick to their shtick. Do we really need even more of these "lush", "soaring" and "cinematic" libraries? What's the point? Does it not bore everyone already?

You'll never gonna please everyone, and not everyone can even be biggest mainstream player. But I believe that ultimately, it's better to stick to your thing and offer something unique than trying to sell the same thing everyone else is trying to sell.

I'm more interested in different sounds and aesthetics than buying yet another library that will finally give me _that Hollywood sound! _(which all previous ones actually already do, as much it is possible for sample libraries, with marginal differences between them).


----------



## Sovereign

Just spent a bit of time getting the EQ to match to the Zimmer Blue Planet recordings which were also done in the Synchron stage, I don't like the mix Dietz did with Christof's nice piece. Based on some testing I think Synchron can definitely sound way better. I think Dietz mixed it pretty much like he does all the other classical pieces.


----------



## Critz

Sovereign said:


> Just spent a bit of time getting the EQ to match to the Zimmer Blue Planet recordings which were also done in the Synchron stage, I don't like the mix Dietz did with Christof's nice piece. Based on some testing I think Synchron can definitely sound way better. I think Dietz mixed it pretty much like he does all the other classical pieces.


Basically users are reprogramming and now post-producing again demos. First time I see this..


----------



## ctsai89

@Critz i disagree with when you said that spitfire sounds better in their demoes than they actually do. I think it CAN definitely sound exactly like they do in Andy Blaney's demoes. It's only the playability that makes it seem like it can't sound like what Andy Blaney's demoes sound like but I don't blame no body for it because his demoes are pretty insane


----------



## Sovereign

Critz said:


> Basically users are reprogramming and now post-producing again demos. First time I see this..


On the VSL website it says Dietz did the mix.


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> @Critz i disagree with when you said that spitfire sounds better in their demoes than they actually do. I think it CAN definitely sound exactly like they do in Andy Blaney's demoes. It's only the playability that makes it seem like it can't sound like what Andy Blaney's demoes sound like but I don't blame no body for it because his demoes are pretty insane


Sorry, I already explained better what I meant. Demos from Spitfire are crazy good. They are the best you can obtain for those libraries, with a great arrangment, a great programming, a great post production.
VSL demos are often really well arranged, sometimes porely programmed, always almost not or bad post-produced.

I really like Spitfire and I'm also thinking to invest on it instead of Synchron.


----------



## Symfoniq

Critz said:


> Sorry, I already explained better what I meant. Demos from Spitfire are crazy good. They are the best you can obtain for those libraries, with a great arrangment, a great programming, a great post production.
> VSL demos are often really well arranged, sometimes porely programmed, always almost not or bad post-produced.
> 
> I really like Spitfire and I'm also thinking to invest on it instead of Synchron.



While I agree with some of what you've said about the Synchron Strings demos, Critz, one thing I will say as an owner of the entire VSL string line (except VSL's Chamber Strings) as well as Spitfire Symphonic Strings, Spitfire Chamber Strings, and all the Albions is that if you're looking for better legato, Spitfire wouldn't be my first choice. There are things I love about Spitfire's libraries, but I'll never reach for them if I need good, convincing legato. VSL, Cinematic Strings, Cinematic Studio Strings, and Soaring Strings all have them beat in this department. Just my opinion.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> Sorry, I already explained better what I meant. Demos from Spitfire are crazy good. They are the best you can obtain for those libraries, with a great arrangment, a great programming, a great post production.
> VSL demos are often really well arranged, sometimes porely programmed, always almost not or bad post-produced.
> 
> I really like Spitfire and I'm also thinking to invest on it instead of Synchron.



but I do hope Synchron will do better than Spitfire when it comes out other wise what's the point of more and new string libraries? There has to be a progress!


----------



## Critz

Symfoniq said:


> While I agree with some of what you've said about the Synchron Strings demos, Critz, one thing I will say as an owner of the entire VSL string line (except VSL's Chamber Strings) as well as Spitfire Symphonic Strings, Spitfire Chamber Strings, and all the Albions is that if you're looking for better legato, Spitfire wouldn't be my first choice. There are things I love about Spitfire's libraries, but I'll never reach for them if I need good, convincing legato. VSL, Cinematic Strings, Cinematic Studio Strings, and Soaring Strings all have them beat in this department. Just my opinion.


I know, even if I can speak only from walkthrough and demos from Spitfire, because I don't have any of their strings libraries. I already told I don't think their legato is convincing, and the scalable vibrato is even worse.
Still...at least Spitfire legato can work inside a mix. Some of the legato on these Synchron demos are simply terrible. That's it unfortunately.


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> but I do hope Synchron will do better than Spitfire when it comes out other wise what's the point of more and new string libraries? There has to be a progress!


It should really do better, considering it's 4 time in size and it offer 1/4 of Spitfire SS articulations!


----------



## Guy Bacos

Saxer said:


> Lets simply wait until the library is ready (including the player). Everything else is talking against the wall.
> What the demos show really well: the sound! I really like what I hear and that it doesn't sound like other libraries. So glad it's not drown in reverb tails! I'm impressed by the depth and clarity without blurring.
> I'm not at all afraid that the library will have legato problems or whatever. Not a single VSL library ever had those problems. Maybe in the current state but it's work in progress. They know their standards and won't skip them just because of a different recording location.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> It should really do better, considering it's 4 time in size and it offer 1/4 of Spitfire SS articulations!



Haha well I hope you make the right decision since you don't have any spitfire yet. They are costly after all. And the legato is very hardly playable in passages that are faster and more rhythmic. I deal with it by spending an extra 5~10 minutes per phrase to edit the midi and listen and edit again. But the results are usually good but still annoying to have to keep editing. The demoes on synchron right now represent the "beta" mode of what synchron actually is so.... I'm still thinking the legato would be more playable and better than spitfire's, at least hopefully. Also I don't use most of the extra articulatioms from spitfire. Just wished more time was put into the important basic stuff instead but they really did pretty well in general


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> Haha well I hope you make the right decision since you don't have any spitfire yet. They are costly after all. And the legato is very hardly playable in passages that are faster and more rhythmic. I deal with it by spending an extra 5~10 minutes per phrase to edit the midi and listen and edit again. But the results are usually good but still annoying to have to keep editing. The demoes on synchron right now represent the "beta" mode of what synchron actually is so.... I'm still thinking the legato would be more playable and better than spitfire's, at least hopefully. Also I don't use most of the extra articulatioms from spitfire. Just wished more time was put into the important basic stuff instead but they really did pretty well in general


Extra editing is normal for the perfect mock up.
Sorry if I point it out, but you also said that demos sounds exactly as the library is capable of. Well, what strings do in those demos is crazy good; there's a lot of excellent strings writing there. How is that possible then, if you also said that they have some trouble with legato and rythmic passages ?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I find this whole legato talk pretty bewildering right now, since I'm pretty sure that we're not even hearing performance legato patches in the Synchron Demos. And if it's really legato, I'm sure it's not finished. There's no reason for VSL to botch it. Hell, they invented it. It's what they always did best. I'm not worried about that at all and find the whole tempest in a teapot around it pretty weird.

Regarding Spitfire: it's true that their libraries tend to be very unwieldy and problematic when it comes to legato, and also anything that's a little more rhythmically intricate. I use them for the great sound, but I do edit a lot and sometimes struggle with them when the part is something other than sustained notes or passages of short notes where nothing else happens. I find that SF libraries are forcing me more to write to the samples than some other libraries.

There's always some kind of trade off. It's getting on my nerves really, and my main interest in Synchron Strings was actually my previous experience with VSL libraries - very reliable, very good and unproblematic to work with. Agile, tight, perfect tuning, consistent. That's what I hope for the most from Synchron Strings.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> Extra editing is normal for the perfect mock up.
> Sorry if I point it out, but you also said that demos sounds exactly as the library is capable of. Well, what strings do in those demos is crazy good; there's a lot of excellent strings writing there. How is that possible then, if you also said that they have some trouble with legato and rythmic passages ?



I said hardly "playable" as in if you try to record it it will sound all over the place until you spend extra extra time editting it. Result will be good, but believe me getting there will be pretty annoying.


----------



## ctsai89

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> unwieldy and problematic when it comes to legato, and also anything that's a little more rhythmically intricate.



@Critz those are the words I was looking for. Great thoughts from @Jimmy Hellfire


----------



## Critz

I beg @Christof pardon for this incomplete attempt. It misses even divisi sections.
It's a test with the MIR Synchron Stage. It seems to me it will really let us blend old VSL libraries with the Synchron Series.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/mir_synchron_vsl-mp3.10715/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## aaronventure

Critz said:


> I beg @Christof pardon for this incomplete attempt. It misses even divisi sections.
> It's a test with the MIR Synchron Stage. It seems to me it will really let us blend old VSL libraries with the Synchron Series.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/mir_synchron_vsl-mp3.10715/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Huh. It seems to me that Synchron Strings have already been released.


----------



## eli0s

Following Christof's suggestion, here is a version of his piece "Enter the drea," with CSS using spiccato for the short articulations.


----------



## Critz

aaronventure said:


> Huh. It seems to me that Synchron Strings have already been released.


I think it was ironic? :D


----------



## Vovique

Synchron Strings do sound good, but not on par with my preferred Adagio+Agitato combo, in my opinion of course).


----------



## eli0s

I thought I should post a final take of Christof's piece using CSS + CSSS, to add some definition and "resin" to the sound.


I also tamed the bass and pushed the 12Khz frequencies in CSS just a bit. Finally, I added a little reverb to the mix.
Perhaps this is closer sound-wise to Synchron Strings. Perhaps not.

I am not sure if I like this take better and I sure didn't invest to much time perfecting CSSS, which, in my opinion, are not as easy to get good results with as CSS are. However, I think this is still a fair comparison, since both Cinematic Studio libraries together are less than half the size of Synchron Strings, and one can think of CSS + CSSS as complimentary products.

Enough with my mumble...


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I do like the CSS versions, it's just a great library. But to my ears, the SS original works better. Synchron Strings sounds much more "3D" and more dynamic.

Maybe it's also because the piece was originally written for a particular library. I notice that a lot when I attempt new renditions of my older works - sometimes I struggle to get it "right" with a different library than the one I previously used.


----------



## Symfoniq

eli0s said:


> I thought I should post a final take of Christof's piece using CSS + CSSS, to add some definition and "resin" to the sound.
> 
> 
> I also tamed the bass and pushed the 12Khz frequencies in CSS just a bit. Finally, I added a little reverb to the mix.
> Perhaps this is closer sound-wise to Synchron Strings. Perhaps not.
> 
> I am not sure if I like this take better and I sure didn't invest to much time perfecting CSSS, which, in my opinion, are not as easy to get good results with as CSS are. However, I think this is still a fair comparison, since both Cinematic Studio libraries together are less than half the size of Synchron Strings, and one can think of CSS + CSSS as complimentary products.
> 
> Enough with my mumble...




This sounds very good, and quite a bit better than the Synchron Strings version of the demo, IMO. Christof's composition was excellent, but I think the Cinematic Studio series does it more justice.


----------



## Tanuj Tiku

Very interesting sound from VSL SS. 

I think they sound nice with a very neutral character. One of the things I think they seem to be better at is the room build up problem. I can't really feel the room build up - it all sounds very neutral and smooth through the dynamics. 

The same cannot be said for most of the libraries. 

Also Guy and Christof have chosen not to do a flattering demo. They have chosen things a little difficult to do than usual with samples. 

Having said that, I would still like to hear more demos to see how the samples do in more situations. The problem one can sometimes face from many sample libraries is that everything sounds big and nice on its own. 

So for example, if you have a string library - it has that nice and big sound but then if you start adding brass and woodwinds, it all starts to muddy up very quickly. 

VSL SS sounds a bit more in its place to me. This could be a nice thing for mock-ups. I am totally hearing imaginary brass parts in Guy's demo for example! Would love to hear that same demo with Synchron Brass at a later stage. 

As for the CSS demo - well, it has a totally different sound and it does suffer from the same build up problem. The CSS demo showcases its own problems of that boxy and thick sound. It doesn't have that airy mysterious sound that (I think!) Christof is probably going for in the first half of the piece. The legato transitions sound good on CSS and it excels at that in many areas. 

However, I think Christof is going for a more marcato legato sound in the passage starting at 1:08 with cellos and violins. And so consequently as CSS flattens these with more connected legato, the timing feels little different. 

Thanks for sharing the CSS demo as well. Its really interesting and both of them (CSS and VSL) do some good things. 

I think VSL *May* have tamed the room sound and build up problem. 

But the jury is out on whether neutral samples help us more or owning different character libraries to write differently for different situations. Of course, all of this is only applicable in the mock-up world. 

VSL may do just fine with people who only work with live orchestras. If its as flexible as the old one and has a good room sound - they have many things going for them. 

Not the least because of the Synchron Stage itself. Those who have the budgets could mock up with VSL and then eventually record at Synchron stage. That is like having a custom library and then recording in the same space. That would be great if it all works out. 

Certainly Conrad Pope, Dennis Sands and Hans Zimmer think the stage is wonderful and world class!


----------



## holywilly

Just pulled the trigger on this library, I have faith in the VSL team who will deliver premium string library like no others.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

I'm glad some folks posted versions with CSS. I have that library and I like it, but it really points out the limitations of CSS. Others pointed out that VSL SS seems to have a sense of depth. I find the VSL SS has a wonderful detailed and open sound that I find very realistic. Up to now, I have liked to mix CSS with VSL Orchestral Strings, but I think VSL SS will give me a similar sound without having to double.


----------



## novaburst

Paul T McGraw said:


> I have liked to mix CSS with VSL Orchestral Strings



nice choice of mix, I believe VSL OS, and the new VSL SS is begging to be layered together.


----------



## muk

The radio silence since the two demos doesn't bode well. No new demos, no walkthrough, no official word on how things stand. I hope the December release is still on the cards.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

muk said:


> The radio silence since the two demos doesn't bode well. No new demos, no walkthrough, no official word on how things stand. I hope the December release is still on the cards.



Me also, but I would rather have a high quality product and it take longer. One reason I keep going back to the VSL samples is the quality and consistency between articulations and even between instruments. I can copy the exact same midi date into a trumpet or clarinet or violin section and it will sound good and be at the correct volume for that instrument. Of course I have standardized my Cubase expression map setups so that I call each articulation for every instrument in the same way. Took me a long time to do that, but wow, it shows how consistent VSL samples are.

And I think the new player is being released at the same time as Synchorn Strings. Hard to imagine how it will be better than VI Pro, but I bet it will be. I suppose if I was in charge of VSL I would have waited to offer Synchron Strings for sale until the product was fully finished. Having spent most of my life in the world of business, I have a few speculations as to why VSL did the pre-order thing, but perhpas they just made a mistake about how close they were to release? in the end, I know I will be impressed by the final product.


----------



## muziksculp

I wouldn't be surprised if the release of *Synchron Strings I* is delayed to Jan. 2018, and have no issues waiting until it is ready for release.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the release of *Synchron Strings I* is delayed to Jan. 2018, and have no issues waiting until it is ready for release.



Possible summer release, if the case is quality control, or something was recorded wrong or a redo of some recording it needs time, some may be disappointed and may get rants but in the end it's best for all


----------



## Sami

The essential problem is announcing something before it's done. I never get why companies even do this kinda thing


----------



## muziksculp

Sami said:


> The essential problem is announcing something before it's done. I never get why companies even do this kinda thing



Yes, exactly. imho This was VSL's big mistake here. 

They could have kept silent until they had it ready, and then announced it, no one would have complained about the long wait. They could have also announce that they will be releasing it in the future (no specific date), and left it at that until they have it ready, at least that would have informed us about their upcoming library, but not caused any issues.


----------



## muziksculp

novaburst said:


> Possible summer release, if the case is quality control, or something was recorded wrong or a redo of some recording it needs time, some may be disappointed and may get rants but in the end it's best for all



Summer would be stretching it a bit too much. My guess is Jan. 2018 .


----------



## C-Wave

Sami said:


> The essential problem is announcing something before it's done. I never get why companies even do this kinda thing


If you ever were in software development you would.


----------



## ctsai89

At this point They're probably thinking that they are going to have a hard time breaking even the cost of production considering how many layers of dynamics causing the time they would've have had to put into this library... and then they also have to compete against several already well established hall based strong libraries out there.


----------



## fiestared

My little finger is telling me... it's not far...


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder how the *Synchron Player*'s GUI looks like ? and what controls it will offer ?


----------



## maestro2be

The new GUI and Player is what I am actually more interested in than the strings. I bought them, but I am certainly raising my eyebrows at what could they possibly do to defeat/improve the mighty VI Pro 2?


----------



## Lotias

maestro2be said:


> The new GUI and Player is what I am actually more interested in than the strings. I bought them, but I am certainly raising my eyebrows at what could they possibly do to defeat/improve the mighty VI Pro 2?


The main problem(s) with VI Pro 2 is that combining articulations takes a lot of programming. For example, if I wanted to crossfade between more than two intensities of vibrato, that's another keyswitch. Adding a staccato/spiccato attack on top of it? Need another articulation switch if I want to play legato. Generally working with Vienna Instruments ends up in a very programming-heavy workflow, because while it is very flexible, there are some things it cannot manage very well. Instead, the Synchron Player promises to minimize this and seemingly pick articulation on the fly as you play; shorts, longs, vibrato all in one patch. It fills in an area that the VI Pro 2 is not strong in.


----------



## muziksculp

How likely is it that the *Synchron Player* is the main cause of the delay to release *Synchron Strings I* ? 

My guess is that it is the primary reason for the delay.


----------



## maestro2be

I wonder if they will attempt to address the long requested "divisi" functionality in the new player? Having the ability to do proper divisi like LASS does would be another welcomed and interesting feature.

I am definitely open to them making it a much more simple process than it is today, but still providing the ability to dig in if needed (timestretch, attack delay, filters etc.).


----------



## FabioA

maestro2be said:


> I wonder if they will attempt to address the long requested "divisi" functionality in the new player? Having the ability to do proper divisi like LASS does would be another welcomed and interesting feature.
> 
> I am definitely open to them making it a much more simple process than it is today, but still providing the ability to dig in if needed (timestretch, attack delay, filters etc.).



Sorry if I point it out, but the Divisi feature is not a matter of the player. Is a feature that must be implemented during the sampling, recording the section in 2 or 3 distinct groups. It's not a joke, since that means that a divisi feature doubles the size of a library. If you ask me, I would prefer to have divisi (aso as much articulation as poissible) renouncing to some mic positions instead.

But also, as you may know, VI Pro 2 has already a pretty functional divisi feature, that works pretty fine with the Dimensions Series. Having players recorded with individual microphones, you have a real divisi result.


----------



## jamwerks

They'll surely at some point also do some chamber size groups.


----------



## NoamL

It's a very interesting comparison.

I like the CSS sound more but there's no question that it puts a heavy "Disney" spin on what @Christof wrote. Or even "schmaltzy" as @Jimmy Hellfire said. Synchron1 is more neutral and more versatile. Normally this is all inside baseball, but this time I can almost see a director being attracted to one version and rejecting the other just because they create such different emotional tones.

The following is more inside baseball: I felt that CSS sounds more like a group of musicians playing together while Synchron1, like many other libraries _tends_ to sound like separately recorded sections. I guess that the developer of CSS may have done some very careful post-producing so that every instrument has its place in the mix once you combine them - all the more so once CSSS is added. On the other hand, the stereo image of Synchron1 sounds nice and large. And, the shorts in Synchron1 are far more appropriate for this piece, as are the gently marcato or "pointed" sustains. There's a lot of nuance between flat unaccented legato playing, and super duper marcato legato. In CSS you get those two options, but if you need something in between it's a challenge. Ss @Tanuj Tiku said, VSL seems to have directly sampled a middle option and that's great. Similarly it sounds like they sampled spiccato with a more gentle, accompaniment-oriented attitude than most libraries.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> How likely is it that the *Synchron Player* is the main cause of the delay to release *Synchron Strings I* ?
> 
> My guess is that it is the primary reason for the delay.



I would say very likely, strings much more intensive than percussion and this would have been a great opportunity to put any prototype player through a heavy test run and deal with any issues.


----------



## Sami

C-Wave said:


> If you ever were in software development you would.


I am in software development; in fact I work for a company which has MUCH more to lose than VSL by their customers "losing interest" because they aren't announcing anything and yet one of the axioms we live by is "never make a promise you cannot keep", i.e. "never bullshit the client". I'm not "angry" at VSL, I've not bought into Synchron and I think the library's move to wet sampling is a misstep anyway but I believe they kinda mishandled the situation.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

I know this will sound stupid to some folks, but I wonder about how they can make a profit at the pre-release price? I do not care about surround sound, so I bought the standard library, $417. Compare that to Spitfire SSS $799 or Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings $840. CSS is cheap at $399 and I like it, but I would not use it alone. I double it with VSL Orchestral Strings $690. 

I care because I want to have Synchron Brass and Synchron Winds. And at 65 years old, I can't wait 5 years. I hope they will do both in 2018, but it will not happen if they do not make a profit.


----------



## C-Wave

Sami said:


> I am in software development; in fact I work for a company which has MUCH more to lose than VSL by their customers "losing interest" because they aren't announcing anything and yet one of the axioms we live by is "never make a promise you cannot keep", i.e. "never bullshit the client". I'm not "angry" at VSL, I've not bought into Synchron and I think the library's move to wet sampling is a misstep anyway but I believe they kinda mishandled the situation.


Point taken, funny I kinda feel the same about wet libraries in general but i’m on the edge with Synchron as they’re not wet wet , but again if I have the “dry” libraries and Mir 6 (Synchron) then why bother with this one.
Edit: oh yes I remember now; The coupons


----------



## jamwerks

Not wanting to announce after Century Strings was probably one of the reasons. Announcing before Black Friday (to allow potential buyers to budget for it) was probably another. Also getting it out before years end to push sales of their coupons...


----------



## JF

From the inbox:

Dear Vienna Newsletter Subscriber,



We’re happy to announce that all five sections of _Synchron Strings I_ will be available shortly, before the Holidays! We’ll release the complete set of articulations of 1st violins and cellos, and all the basic articulations of 2nd violins, violas and basses. Performance articulations for these sections will be added in early 2018.

While our developers are working full steam on our new _Synchron Player_, we have improved our existing _Vienna Instruments_ and _Vienna Instruments Pro_ players to support _Synchron Strings I_. They will be available as free updates within the next few days. We’re also providing ready-to-use stereo presets (downmixes) of all _Synchron Strings I_ sections with lower CPU load by reducing the number of audio signals per instance. What’s more, ready-made templates for _Vienna Ensemble_ and _Vienna Ensemble Pro_ will offer access to each individual microphone position.

More options, including simplified control over articulations and multiple mic positions, will be available with our new _Synchron Player_.

Don’t miss to watch the sneak peek video of the _Synchron Strings I_ cellos! We’ve also added two audio demos by Guy Bacos and Christof Unterberger.

Please note that the *Synchron Strings Early Bird Offer* is valid through *Friday, December 29, 2017*! Prices will go up to the Introductory Price (25% off the list price) after this date. Click here for more details!


----------



## robgb

Paul T McGraw said:


> at 65 years old, I can't wait 5 years.


Lol. Boy do I know this feeling...


----------



## jamwerks

Happy to hear about the stereo mixes!


----------



## Britpack50

Paul T McGraw said:


> I know this will sound stupid to some folks, but I wonder about how they can make a profit at the pre-release price? I do not care about surround sound, so I bought the standard library, $417. Compare that to Spitfire SSS $799 or Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings $840. CSS is cheap at $399 and I like it, but I would not use it alone. I double it with VSL Orchestral Strings $690.
> 
> I care because I want to have Synchron Brass and Synchron Winds. And at 65 years old, I can't wait 5 years. I hope they will do both in 2018, but it will not happen if they do not make a profit.


Is it because they don't include Con Sordino, so the final price will be double?


----------



## chapbot

Paul T McGraw said:


> And at 65 years old, I can't wait 5 years. I hope they will do both in 2018, but it will not happen if they do not make a profit.


My mother is turning 86 next month, just had her shoulder replaced and is going strong so you have plenty of time  With VSL, you'll need it!


----------



## Sovereign

Hmmm, I'm not even seeing the free Vienna player in my downloads section and I'm not going to pay for the pro edition while waiting for the promised synchron player.


----------



## chapbot

Has VSL not discovered YouTube yet lol? I swear that company is living in the early 2000's by the look of their website (yes I own several of their libraries.) The new cello preview video has made me less interested in Synchron. As ctsai89 would say, it sounds "synthy" to me. Listen at 5:55 - what do you all think? Video here.


----------



## Saxer

Synthy? No 

Really looking forward to edit it to my workflow. I'm not a friend of articulation switching and gazillions of cells but the ProPlayer gives a lot of possibilities to avoid it. Velocity, CC and speed controlled articulation switching will do. And we'll see what the Synchron Player comes up with.


----------



## Critz

chapbot said:


> Has VSL not discovered YouTube yet lol? I swear that company is living in the early 2000's by the look of their website (yes I own several of their libraries.) The new cello preview video has made me less interested in Synchron. As ctsai89 would say, it sounds "synthy" to me. Listen at 5:55 - what do you all think? Video here.



The video started great with the flautando. Then..
Just a short and a super-short patch... really?
No harmonics, no portamento.
But you have dozen of crescendo and diminuendo.... the stuff I would consider the less useful for a library with 8 dynamic layers!!!

After this video I think I'll give up, and I will invest on something else that runs on Kontakt. If that is what VSL is capable of, I'm really revaluing other companies; because Synchron looks cpu and ram aggressive, offers some new useless feature, but lacks a lot of stuff other libraries offer. Perhaps what other companies did until now, was not that bad at all.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

The video is FANTASTIC. All of my faith in VSL has been vindicated. But I want it NOW for all sections of the orchestra. This is the most musical string library I have ever heard. And the tone quality is wonderful.


----------



## Lee Blaske

Looks great to me. The legato appears to be very responsive. And like all VSL products, the fit and finish is really great. Predictable, with no surprises, and no clunkers or iffy intonation. Glad I pre-ordered.


----------



## Saxer

Critz said:


> ...because Synchron looks cpu and ram aggressive


Really? How do you know? They even offer a stereo mix and you can always load the cells (articulations) you need. The only other sampleplayer I know which is same CPU efficient is Logics EXS (but without all the orchestra relevant features the VSL player has to offer).


----------



## synergy543

You can adjust the Pre-Load Buffer size per each drive from within the Directory Manager. This allows you to lower your RAM useage and loading times if you're using fast SSDs. I know because I RTFM and tried it*. Kontack cannot even do this. Kontakt uses a global setting for all drives so it cannot address individual drives which may run faster than others. So good luck, YMMV. Kudos for VSL for such forward thinking design!

*Full confession - Actually come to think of it, Paul did this first and I read about his experience on the VSL forum. And I haven't actually read the entire manual yet.


----------



## Guy Bacos

synergy543 said:


> You can adjust the Pre-Load Buffer size per each drive from within the Directory Manager. This allows you to lower your RAM useage and loading times if you're using fast SSDs.



Yes, makes a huge difference.


----------



## Lee Blaske

Saxer said:


> Really? How do you know? They even offer a stereo mix and you can always load the cells (articulations) you need. The only other sampleplayer I know which is same CPU efficient is Logics EXS (but without all the orchestra relevant features the VSL player has to offer).



Agree. I would definitely give VSL the benefit of the doubt. Those folks know how to write code.


----------



## novaburst

Paul T McGraw said:


> This is the most musical string library I have ever heard. And the tone quality is wonderful.



The legato is so unfair, never heard anything like that, extremely responsive, and musical.


----------



## novaburst

Lee Blaske said:


> The legato appears to be very responsive.


+ 1 eye opener


----------



## Critz

Saxer said:


> Really? How do you know? They even offer a stereo mix and you can always load the cells (articulations) you need. The only other sampleplayer I know which is same CPU efficient is Logics EXS (but without all the orchestra relevant features the VSL player has to offer).



I said that because I have their old products so as synchron percussions. Even if I have an high pre load buffer for Synchron Percussions, I'm experienxing some pops when I play the celesta, for example. VSL said also you need a preload buffer of 8000 for Synchron Strings! That means you need 10 (!!!) gbs to load the entire violin I section. That would be even fine, we are approaching 2018, if that library would offer a decent amount of articulations. Instead, it gives you just one general patch of short notes, 4 tipe of legato (that I suppose they will be handled automatically by the Synchron Player) tremolos and pizzicato.
Basically it looks like the concept of library such us CSS or CS2, but 10 time in size.
At this point, I think it s clear that Synchron Strings II will have much more than just "with sordino".
Until SS II will come out, that library will be just an add to our template, a very heavy add.
And sorry, I'm not so happy as same of you about the fact we can layer it with other VSL strings libraries.
If you will blend libraries, it means you will need to program those libraries with keyswitches. So byebye easiness of use of Synchron Player.


----------



## Critz

Also, you really think that slurred patch is suitable for runs, or just for quite fast passages? I don't think so. I know it wuld have been harder for a wet library to do well on that field, but I was expectint better from VSL. Old libraries with trill patches are so much better..


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> The video started great with the flautando. Then..
> Just a short and a super-short patch... really?
> No harmonics, no portamento.
> But you have dozen of crescendo and diminuendo.... the stuff I would consider the less useful for a library with 8 dynamic layers!!!
> 
> After this video I think I'll give up, and I will invest on something else that runs on Kontakt. If that is what VSL is capable of, I'm really revaluing other companies; because Synchron looks cpu and ram aggressive, offers some new useless feature, but lacks a lot of stuff other libraries offer. Perhaps what other companies did until now, was not that bad at all.



I don't know man. Real pre-recorded dynamics "less useful"? That's exactly the stuff that matters when it comes to added realism and expression.

It "looks" CPU and RAM aggressive? How can you tell, by the color of the GUI?

It's certainly not an entry-level lib. But considering that the VI Pro player was already exceptionally ressource proficient, we could assume that their expertise in this area will take effect here, right? 
Also considering that VI Pro was also already superior to other samplers (like Kontakt) and they're working on an ever more advanced one as we speak, I'm puzzled by the "useless features" remark.

And then there's the inevitable "synthy". 

Sometimes you gotta wonder ...


----------



## Eptesicus

Well I'm excited again after that cello video.

Sounds absolutely lovely and that fast legato


----------



## jamwerks

Really enjoyed the Celli video. Lots of musical possibilities in these samples. Love the 4 legati, the different vibrati, the releases on the arc's, the short notes. No reverb in the video, so should be quite flexible.

It may be true that more cpu and ram will be needed, but glad that they're seemingly making tools for high level use.

I'd also be curious to see if it's possible to to swap the 2nd violins and the celli by reversing the LR samples? Man would I be happy!


----------



## Britpack50

Again, new here, but I also thought the Cello Video increased my interest. The VI Pro interface is complex, but I really like the use with the app (I think I missed that one), and as people are saying the new Synchron player could allow easier access to these incredibly detailed options. The question does remain about how long it will take to get the rest of the library out. Though of course with MIR, older VSL libs can be used on the Synchron stage. I prefer the sounds to Century Strings by a country mile, which I had also been waiting for.


----------



## FriFlo

No, I definitively would call anything I hear synthy!  people seem to have forgotten the real sound of strings playing legato, which does not always sound as much legato as these slurred patches in many libraries do sound. But on the other hands, I also hear some holes in between notes in those slow legato patches in the video demo and on Christophs Demo. In my opinion this does not sound very natural/convincing to me. I am sure it is way more difficult to achieve a decent and flowing legato with up to 8 velocity layers! Kudos to making that work and I like some other things I neared so far (short notes, Pizzicato, Tremolo). But I have to cenfess, I am not all that sure with the legato yet ... I don't generally dislike it, but I am not sure how much can be done with it convincingly ...


----------



## Eptesicus

The standard legato ( the first one he played) didn't sound wonderful but the others all sounded fantastic in my opinion, especially the fast and slurred ones.


----------



## FriFlo

Eptesicus said:


> The standard legato ( the first one he played) didn't sound wonderful but the others all sounded fantastic in my opinion, especially the fast and slurred ones.


That is what I meant. But I would hope for a wonderful slow legato (without slur) as well.


----------



## jamwerks

What they're calling standard legato is what some other's refer to as bow-change legato. For realistic lines you would use some of both.

I personally really like the slow transitions on the slow legato. Will make slow lines much more realistic. And the fast stuff sounds equally convincing to me.


----------



## Eptesicus

Those _Flautando_ chords sound beautiful as well.

Also to think this is just as it is with no eq or reverb.


----------



## FriFlo

jamwerks said:


> What they're calling standard legato is what some other's refer to as bow-change legato. For realistic lines you would use some of both.
> 
> I personally really like the slow transitions on the slow legato. Will make slow lines much more realistic. And the fast stuff sounds equally convincing to me.


Yes, but their fast legato also sounds like a bow change (if anything) and this should rather be a fingered legato sound IMO. Actually, I am not even sure there are any legato transitions between the notes, except for the slurred one ... it almost sounds to me like what you can get with a normal sustain with a very short attack phase ... if this is really recorded transitions in 8 dynamic layers, I am a bit underwhelmed by the effect of this regarding the effort that went into it ... don't get me wrong, I actually want to like this product and I want VSL to succeed with it. I am just in parts not without doubt that this is the "Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" (sorry, cannot translate that, but my German speaking colleagues will understand me).
To me, there would have to be a fingered legato, a bow change and a slurred one (optionally portamento on top). This is what I would use to reproduce most string legato lines. But what I heard here is only the slurred one. All the other types neither sound like any real technique to my ears.


----------



## lucor

I'm still not 100% sure what to think about the legatos. I think they sound really good, but I'm not as blown away as I hoped I would be. Though I feel like one problem is that Paul was mostly playing with velocity sensitive dynamics instead of the Modwheel.


----------



## jamwerks

@FriFlo isn't fingered legato the same as slurred legato? In the video playing both the fast and slurred legati, I'm not hearing any bow changes.


----------



## jamwerks

Listened again to the video. Sounds like the Slow, Regular & Fast legati are bow-change. And the 4th kind Slurred isn't. Nice to hear that the Slurred sounds good even at slow speeds.

Seems like they are trying to mimick what string players really do (eg fast legato isn't always slurred).

And the announced features of the upcoming Syncron player should be the icing on the cake!


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Yes, makes a huge difference.


But it seems, according to Paul's words, that is almost impossible to go lower than 8000 samples, without experiencing interruptions and pops I suppose..
It was possible in the past. And Dimension had a huge amount of samples to stream as well!
Could you tell us of your thoughts about that? Will Synchron Player improve overall performances, maybr, as Paul said (if I'm not wrong)?


----------



## Eptesicus

Critz said:


> I said that because I have their old products so as synchron percussions. Even if I have an high pre load buffer for Synchron Percussions, I'm experienxing some pops when I play the celesta, for example. VSL said also you need a preload buffer of 8000 for Synchron Strings! That means you need 10 (!!!) gbs to load the entire violin I section. That would be even fine, we are approaching 2018, if that library would offer a decent amount of articulations. Instead, it gives you just one general patch of short notes, 4 tipe of legato (that I suppose they will be handled automatically by the Synchron Player) tremolos and pizzicato.
> Basically it looks like the concept of library such us CSS or CS2, but 10 time in size.
> At this point, I think it s clear that Synchron Strings II will have much more than just "with sordino".
> Until SS II will come out, that library will be just an add to our template, a very heavy add.
> And sorry, I'm not so happy as same of you about the fact we can layer it with other VSL strings libraries.
> If you will blend libraries, it means you will need to program those libraries with keyswitches. So byebye easiness of use of Synchron Player.



Isn't this mainly because it has *7* mic positions....


----------



## FriFlo

jamwerks said:


> @FriFlo isn't fingered legato the same as slurred legato? In the video playing both the fast and slurred legati, I'm not hearing any bow changes.


Right from the VSL Forum:
https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t43362--slur--legato#post260063
That is what I meant by I like their concept of not only recording that kind of slurred legato, which is actually only a schmaltzy way of playing ... string players more often use a very unspectacular sounding legato, which I would call fingered legato (opposed to bow change legato) and then there is also legato in one bow by changing the string. So, to merely get the most basic legato types, one would have to include those, maybe fingered legato and legato from one string to another could be connected to one patch.
But this is of course a simplification, because there are several different types of flavours how these can be performed! E.g. a portamento can be combined with a bow change. The possibilities are endless, so impractical to try to include them all in a sample library. Hence, in the end it is sort of a creative decision! But what I would do, is have at least one expressive legato, like slurred one, one rather neutral one, like the fingered and bowchange. To my ear, all except for the slurred legato in Synchron Strings sound close to (not quite like) a bow change. I find that decision strange, but we will see ...


----------



## Casiquire

One thing I'm liking about the new cello video: it sounds like the low C has no vibrato and has a fuller more resonant sound, like in real life. I've played with libraries before that have tried to even out the volume of that low string, and I much prefer how it doesn't sound like they did that here.

I don't think I'm going to spring for this library though, the only VSL string section I seem to get along well with is Dimension Strings. I'm interested to see the new player though!


----------



## Critz

Eptesicus said:


> Isn't this mainly because it has *7* mic positions....


Do you hear the difference of 7 mics positions against the stereo or mono dry samples plus MIR of previous libraries? I do but much less than I was expecting.
Also..it's just me that think sometimes the sound in Paul demos doesn't seem the sound of a Cello section? During some legato passages it sound most like a solo cello than 8 cellos.


----------



## novaburst

Reading post of why people don't want to purchase new library's is quite bewildering, the reason can be quite funny, its almost like they become professional Developer over one night, giving all kind of detailed advice, why the developer should have done this, and why it should have been like this, and why it want work, they make you feel like they know way more than the developer who created the library, and that the developer does not know what they are doing.

they go through great lengths of post writing why the library is no good may be they should try and go for a job @VSL. because they seem to know way more than VSL on how a library should be created.

you would read things like "the legato sounds good but I don't know it does not feel natural." how in the world does a legato sound good and unnatural at the same time is quite astonishing in my view a legato is good or not good or unnatural.

I think what really is going on is they are really trying very hard to convince them self's not to purchase the library and are looking for some kind of approval from members.

I would say this at least for myself, I can pick a 1001 reasons why not to purchase a new a library and if I went by that philosophy I would possibly end up with no library.

I already know a library is not going to do it all for me (one shot) but there really needs to be something about the library that triggers your need or musical instinct to make you want to part with your cash it does not matter who else needs it or who does not need it, what matters is that you know it will play the part you versioned in your mind. not what other people think. once that is settled the whole world can turn that library down but for you its already settled your going for it no matter what.

Yes its nice to hear what others feel about a library but what matters is how you feel and some times that is personal there needs to be a time when you can find your own way around a library and pick out the juicy needs for your self, if you have a musical signature then you should know and understand just what sound or need is out there for your music.

@ the end of the day this is all about music (Your music) if you we very much involved in our music or very much in love with music, in love with composing, the at the very least we would stop writing books on the negativity of library's that are meant to aid us on our journey.

What a library can do for you, it is quite possible that same library is doing something very different to another user, what you cant get out of a library, another user can get the world out of it.......


----------



## Sovereign

Critz said:


> Do you hear the difference of 7 mics positions against the stereo or mono dry samples plus MIR of previous libraries? I do but much less than I was expecting.
> Also..it's just me that think sometimes the sound in Paul demos doesn't seem the sound of a Cello section? During some legato passages it sound most like a solo cello than 8 cellos.


No, I don't hear that, in fact I'm positively impressed by the sound. The Vienna player seems cumbersome though.


----------



## erica-grace

Good post nova.


----------



## kimarnesen

Saxer said:


> Really? How do you know? They even offer a stereo mix and you can always load the cells (articulations) you need. The only other sampleplayer I know which is same CPU efficient is Logics EXS (but without all the orchestra relevant features the VSL player has to offer).



Well, with what Paul at VSL writes it looks like I need a new slave just to run this.

“With a Preload size of 8192 Samples, you will need around 10 GB of RAM for the FULL Libtrary / 1st Violins. 

With a Preload size of 8192 Samples, you will need around 5 GB of RAM for the FULL Libtrary / 1st Violins.”

I think he means STANDARD library on the last one. But 5GB ram just for 1st violins...I don’t have 25GB ram just for this library.


----------



## Saxer

But du you really need all articulations in every track? I never ever used all articulations of Dimension Strings (and it's my main work horse library up to now).

The dilemma is: either you have a detailled and RAM hungry library or you have less possibilities for less demanding systems. Same with room mikes. You can't have both. The VSL player is flexible enough to load the needed material only. The "per voice" demand of the VSL player (including things like "scripting") is very low. Much lower than Kontakt libraries.


----------



## Critz

kimarnesen said:


> Well, with what Paul at VSL writes it looks like I need a new slave just to run this.
> 
> “With a Preload size of 8192 Samples, you will need around 10 GB of RAM for the FULL Libtrary / 1st Violins.
> 
> With a Preload size of 8192 Samples, you will need around 5 GB of RAM for the FULL Libtrary / 1st Violins.”
> 
> I think he means STANDARD library on the last one. But 5GB ram just for 1st violins...I don’t have 25GB ram just for this library.



Don't forget that huge orchestral libraries comparable to Synchron Strings, already require that amount of RAM. Let's think to OT Berlin series. 
Btw that's why I say Synchron is more RAM aggressive. Now it's on pair with other libraries; but it offers far less articulation.
Ok, it could have 2 mic positions more, but I don't care. It has more dynamic layers..but I didn't hear this difference respect libraries with 4 layers...did you?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

You heard musical demos, using the dynamics that were appropriate for those particular pieces of music. There's most certainly a big difference in having many dynamic layers available, but it should be clear to any halfway experienced sample library user that these things become apparent when _working_ with it. Demos are one thing, but once you start sculpting your own parts and performances, you realize what the particular library is capable of - or isn't.

If the information regarding the offered dynamic layers alone - or any other technical information - isn't a good enough incentive for you, that's fair. But dismissing the offered value by saying - oh, I didn't hear it - that's silly, and strikes me as unqualified criticism. Seriously.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> You heard musical demos, using the dynamics that were appropriate for those particular pieces of music. There's most certainly a big difference in having many dynamic layers available, but it should be clear to any halfway experienced sample library user that these things become apparent when _working_ with it. Demos are one thing, but once you start sculpting your own parts and performances, you realize what the particular library is capable of - or isn't.
> 
> If the information regarding the offered dynamic layers alone - or any other technical information - isn't a good enough incentive for you, that's fair. But dismissing the offered value by saying - oh, I didn't hear it - that's silly, and strikes me as unqualified criticism. Seriously.


Honestely, the dynamic layers is an interesting point of discussion, for who likes Orchestral Libraries other than who had to work with them.
Until now, tha feature sounds to me like the most (the unique) innovative and revolutionary feature this library has to offer. Ok..demos may not show that (or they did try but it wasn t noticeable?). Paul 's walkthrough seems to try showing that..but I didn't hear it! (While I noticed there are keyswitches that let you choose what dynamic range select, ppp to ff, ppp to mp etc; that's really nice).
It's not just me. Other users said VSL is showing not to be on pair with other companies when it comes to promotion. Becausr how could you miss the chance to show how those features work??
Btw I stop my comments here, that's right. I may purchase it anyway, since the price is pretty juicy.
But I also say that in the past I blamed users that wasn't able to understand the Dimension Series. That was innavation. But now... as someone said, it's seems to me VSL is stucked in 2000. And it pretends performance patches, adaptive legato, multi-mic positions, is something new and mind-blowing. It is not. We already know of companies with a great(est) know-how in those fields.


----------



## Saxer

Critz said:


> Ok, it could have 2 mic positions more, but I don't care. It has more dynamic layers..but I didn't hear this difference respect libraries with 4 layers...did you?


No, I don't hear it in the demos. I just know what doesn't really work in existing libraries: things like legato-ostinatos which still have an extreme machine gun effect in all existing libraries I own. One of the simplest thing for real musicians: moving one finger up and down (like a trill but slower) doesn't work at all up to now. My biggest hope is to get around those problems with more legato layers.
How the legato really works and if I will like it: I don't know until I have it on my system and try it myself. But I know that all the VSL libraries I already have do that very well. I just don't like their preconfigured cell switching system. But the VSLplayerPro has the possibilities to configure everything I like.
When the libary is ready and it doesn't work on my system and the legatos are bad and it doesn't match my workflow and sounds synthi... ok, THAN I will start to complain. But not now.


----------



## jamwerks

Saxer said:


> ... things like legato-ostinatos which still have an extreme machine gun effect in all existing libraries I own. One of the simplest thing for real musicians: moving one finger up and down (like a trill but slower) doesn't work at all up to now...


Yes this has always been a problem, but I think in BWW Revive the measured tremolos do that pretty well, even at a pretty slow tempo.


----------



## lucor

kimarnesen said:


> “With a Preload size of 8192 Samples, you will need around 10 GB of RAM for the FULL Libtrary / 1st Violins.
> 
> With a Preload size of 8192 Samples, you will need around 5 GB of RAM for the FULL Libtrary / 1st Violins.”



5GB of RAM is VERY reasonable I think, considering it is with all 4 mic positions loaded. So if you just use the Decca or the Stereo Mix you would only need around 1.25GB, and with their 'Optimize' functionality it will be even less. Sounds great to me!


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Critz said:


> Don't forget that huge orchestral libraries comparable to Synchron Strings, already require that amount of RAM. Let's think to OT Berlin series.
> Btw that's why I say Synchron is more RAM aggressive. Now it's on pair with other libraries; but it offers far less articulation.
> Ok, it could have 2 mic positions more, but I don't care. It has more dynamic layers..but I didn't hear this difference respect libraries with 4 layers...did you?



Yes I could hear the difference 8 dynamic layers make.

When Paul turned off the crossfade, the beautiful dynamics achievable using only keyboard velocity really amazed me. And the crossfade is extremely smooth because of the 8 underlying dynamic layers. No big leaps either up or down stuck out in dynamics as Paul moved the crossfade control. This quality of sudden jumps in volume or changes in timbre has been a big irritant for me in some of the other libraries I own. In fact, the improvement that 8 dynamic layers provides is for me the single biggest improvement in Synchron Strings I.

I would have bought the library if it was simply a remake of the VSL Orchestral Strings but with 8 dynamic layers.

I also like the tone quality, the flexibility of vibrato from none to molto vibrato, and the multiple legato types. I am thrilled. I feel like a little kid getting a new present.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Paul T McGraw said:


> Yes I could hear the difference 8 dynamic layers make.
> 
> When Paul turned off the crossfade, the beautiful dynamics achievable using only keyboard velocity really amazed me.



Exactly! I could imagine that for certain parts, you could get away with not even using the modwheel at all.


----------



## eli0s

You guys have amazing ears! I feel like I haven't heard a real orchestra before, either live or recorded one.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

People seem to be expecting a more slurred or portamento legato. In reality a performed string legato is a smooth change from note to note. There should be no portamento. None at all. 

My guess is that many developers are including a very small amount of portamento in their "legato" patches to fool the ear into thinking the legato is better than it really is. Also to make it seem more "human". Or perhaps the sections just aren't as carefully sampled. In a real section of 8 celli performing a legato between two notes, the timing is usually not going to be perfect among all 8 players, unless it is a world class orchestra. The ear hears the timing differences collectively as a sort of portamento or slurring effect. 

The Synchron Strings celli sound like a very top orchestra section with only the best players who have been thoroughly rehearsed. The change from note to note is nearly perfect within the section. Without the timing differences among the 8 players, people don't hear the humanizing effect of smearing, or slurring that they associate with a string section legato. 

VSL is going to give us three different legatos. One of which is a slurred legato. If a legato like the other libraries is wanted, we can chose to use the slurred legato. Perhaps a short demo using only slurred legato would be a good idea.


----------



## jamwerks

Interesting how most string libraries now are sampling smaller ensemble sizes (Century Strings has 6 first Violins), and people seem to love the sound.

VSL here has recorded larger ensembles. Maybe that's why some have said "synthy", etc.? It's a different sound...


----------



## ctsai89

Just watched some parts of the cello sneak peak.

Spitfire still sounds better/more realistic. 

But Synchron seems to be very playable and controllable especially for cues and production music. And most likely will be better than Spitfire at those things.

Nothing to my ears could beat Spitfire when it comes to just midi mocking up concert music for yourself or another concert music composer (Rach/Wagner/etc).


----------



## doubleattack

ctsai89 said:


> Just watched some parts of the cello sneak peak.
> 
> ...concert music for yourself or another concert music composer (Rach/Wagner/etc).



Bachmaninow?


----------



## rap_ferr

I'm considering this strings. The Standard version.

So I got a little bit confused. How much ram to load all the sections on the Standard version, Stereo Mix and regular VI?


----------



## Paul T McGraw

rap_ferr said:


> I'm considering this strings. The Standard version.
> 
> So I got a little bit confused. How much ram to load all the sections on the Standard version, Stereo Mix and regular VI?



That is a great question. I don't think any numbers have been published. You will save RAM by only loading the stereo mix. You can also save RAM by using the VSL "optimize" function, which is sort of like the PURGE in Kontakt. Just my own personal guess, and I don't work for VSL or have any special information, is probably 8GB to 10GB. VSL products are very RAM efficient. The biggest RAM inflator is the multiple MIC positions. If you just want to load the stereo mix, you will save a lot of RAM. That is my plan as well.


----------



## synergy543

Paul, (I'm guessing here too) though I think you will likely need a bit more RAM than that unless you have extremely fast PCI-based RAM and can set very low Pre-Load buffer sizes. Also, you will likely want RAM for other instruments and as well as other applications too. So its best to plan ahead. I think 32G would be a good minimum target and you'd likely be more comfortable with 64G. Just a "good guess". 

I do wish VSL offered a Surround folded-down-to-Stereo mix of all the mic positions as does Spitfire. This would be a very sweet offering and incentive for those purchasing the extended version. However, the VSL matrix structure of programs is far more complex than Spitfire so a suggestion like this would probably make Dietz want to clobber me , as I'm sure he already has mixing tasks up the wazoodle for mirX alone. So RAM is probably the cheapest, bestest, and fastest solution.


----------



## Saxer

synergy543 said:


> I do wish VSL offered a Surround folded-down-to-Stereo mix of all the mic positions...


Paul said in his walkthrough video there will be a stereo mixdown version.


----------



## synergy543

Saxer said:


> aul said in his walkthrough video there will be a stereo mixdown version.


I think he was referring to a set of presets (as opposed to an audio mix - say of Dietz's Best Surround-to-Stereo Mix). As they did with the Synchron Percussion. This is still requires loading all mic samples into the patch.

But who know? If enough people request this, maybe we can get some more work for Dietz?


----------



## ctsai89

Paul T McGraw said:


> People seem to be expecting a more slurred or portamento legato. In reality a performed string legato is a smooth change from note to note. There should be no portamento. None at all.
> 
> My guess is that many developers are including a very small amount of portamento in their "legato" patches to fool the ear into thinking the legato is better than it really is. Also to make it seem more "human". Or perhaps the sections just aren't as carefully sampled. In a real section of 8 celli performing a legato between two notes, the timing is usually not going to be perfect among all 8 players, unless it is a world class orchestra. The ear hears the timing differences collectively as a sort of portamento or slurring effect.
> 
> The Synchron Strings celli sound like a very top orchestra section with only the best players who have been thoroughly rehearsed. The change from note to note is nearly perfect within the section. Without the timing differences among the 8 players, people don't hear the humanizing effect of smearing, or slurring that they associate with a string section legato.
> 
> VSL is going to give us three different legatos. One of which is a slurred legato. If a legato like the other libraries is wanted, we can chose to use the slurred legato. Perhaps a short demo using only slurred legato would be a good idea.



I think the "little bit of portamento" is much needed when it's a legato between a leap of 2 notes that forms an interval of perfect 4th or more. For basses and cellos a major third at times would already require a shift (which is a very fast version of portamento, usually) depending on situation of the next few notes. etc.


----------



## ctsai89

doubleattack said:


> Bachmaninow?



PAXMANIHOB!


----------



## muk

Saxer said:


> Paul said in his walkthrough video there will be a stereo mixdown version.



Are surround-to-stereo-mix only for the full version, or are they included in the standard version? I ask because in the Synchron Percussion demos there is a head to head between a stereo mix, and a surround to stereo downmix. I like the latter more, so if that was included in the standard version that would be great.
By the way, the first parts of Synchron Strings should be released today or tomorrow. Paul wrote that they are coming before the holidays.


----------



## fiestared

Do you know if VSL will implement also the "sequencer" of VIP into the "Synchron player" ? Thanks


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

ctsai89 said:


> PAXMANIHOB!



Extra points.


----------



## doubleattack

ctsai89 said:


> PAXMANIHOB!


 
I prefered to use the german spelling since Bach has been a german...


----------



## Paul T McGraw

synergy543 said:


> Paul, (I'm guessing here too) though I think you will likely need a bit more RAM than that unless you have extremely fast PCI-based RAM and can set very low Pre-Load buffer sizes. Also, you will likely want RAM for other instruments and as well as other applications too. So its best to plan ahead. I think 32G would be a good minimum target and you'd likely be more comfortable with 64G. Just a "good guess".
> 
> I do wish VSL offered a Surround folded-down-to-Stereo mix of all the mic positions as does Spitfire. This would be a very sweet offering and incentive for those purchasing the extended version. However, the VSL matrix structure of programs is far more complex than Spitfire so a suggestion like this would probably make Dietz want to clobber me , as I'm sure he already has mixing tasks up the wazoodle for mirX alone. So RAM is probably the cheapest, bestest, and fastest solution.



I was just referring to the strings taking up 8 to 10gb. Of course one would want RAM for brass, woodwinds and percussion also, plus the operating system plus the DAW. So 48 to 64 GB in total is probably an absolute minimum, just my guess.


----------



## Vischebaste

Synchron Strings released!


----------



## Nicola74

Vischebaste said:


> Synchron Strings released!


Yes!! But I see only vlns I in MyVSL...


----------



## Sovereign

Nicola74 said:


> Yes!! But I see only vlns I in MyVSL...


Same here, only seeing violins for now.


----------



## rap_ferr

Paul T McGraw said:


> That is a great question. I don't think any numbers have been published. You will save RAM by only loading the stereo mix. You can also save RAM by using the VSL "optimize" function, which is sort of like the PURGE in Kontakt. Just my own personal guess, and I don't work for VSL or have any special information, is probably 8GB to 10GB. VSL products are very RAM efficient. The biggest RAM inflator is the multiple MIC positions. If you just want to load the stereo mix, you will save a lot of RAM. That is my plan as well.



Thanks! 8 to 10 GB is a good number for strings.

Does anybody know if this optimize function is available in the regular VI player (not the pro)?


----------



## Paul T McGraw

VSL announced that they are staggering the release of Synchron Strings with a section every few days. They have had so many orders that they are afraid their servers will be overwhelmed and knocked out by too many of such big downloads hitting at once.


----------



## Sovereign

After playing with the vlns a bit I'm impressed enough with the clean legato. But damn do I dislike the VSL player.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Sovereign said:


> After playing with the vlns a bit I'm impressed enough with the clean legato. But damn do I dislike the VSL player.



Interesting reaction. It is a bit different, but infinitely customizable, and very RAM efficient. Once you get used to it, you might start wishing you could use it for all of your libraries. I do.


----------



## Sovereign

Paul T McGraw said:


> Interesting reaction. It is a bit different, but infinitely customizable, and very RAM efficient. Once you get used to it, you might start wishing you could use it for all of your libraries. I do.


Perhaps, but it'll be replaced with the Synchron player anyhow. Right now I'm stuck in the Room-Mix preset, not quite getting how I get to do my own 'mix'. That said, I really like the Synchron sound and the playability.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Sovereign said:


> After playing with the vlns a bit I'm impressed enough with the clean legato. But damn do I dislike the VSL player.



I encourage you to get familiar with it. It's superior to anything else. Kontakt is like a children's toy compared to it. Once you get the hang of it, a world of possibilities opens up, and you can get real creative. Seamless, smooth crossfading between non vib and vib, or bow position change from flautando to normal pp, or setting up your own intelligent KS and CC combinations in useful ways, like: set up a combined use of all different sustain patches so you can control the change from soft attack sustain to stronger attack via velocity while blending in vibrato via CC ... define your own thresholds at which normal legato switches to fast legato according to playing speed to make the player intelligently react to your playing etc. Then there's the customizable timestretch ... etc. etc.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I encourage you to get familiar with it. It's superior to anything else. Kontakt is like a children's toy compared to it. Once you get the hang of it, a world of possibilities opens up, and you can get real creative. Seamless, smooth crossfading between non vib and vib, or bow position change from flautando to normal pp, or setting up your own intelligent KS and CC combinations in useful ways, like: set up a combined use of all different sustain patches so you can control the change from soft attack sustain to stronger attack via velocity while blending in vibrato via CC ... define your own thresholds at which normal legato switches to fast legato according to playing speed to make the player intelligently react to your playing etc. Then there's the customizable timestretch ... etc. etc.



Several enhancements have been made in the last weeks. Among these, I really like the cresc and dim possibilities.


----------



## prodigalson

oh man, I'm away from my rig for the next few weeks due to the holidays. frustrated that I won't be able to dig into Synchron Strings until january! looking forward to all the user demos that I'm sure are imminent!


----------



## Steve Martin

Looks like the new Synchron Strings library is available for download now.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Guy Bacos said:


> Several enhancements have been made in the last weeks. Among these, I really like the cresc and dim possibilities.


Hey Guy - are you referring to 'smooth' xfades OR is there a player function to handle these cres / desc (and hopefully pfp's)


----------



## Inceptic

So now that the violins are out, can someone please confirm how much RAM they use (Standard lib - stereo mixes - all articulations)?

Also, anyone know how VSL handles library updates? Do they make you re-download the entire sample library again?


----------



## erica-grace

Sovereign said:


> After playing with the vlns a bit I'm impressed enough with the clean legato. But damn do I dislike the VSL player.



Care to post a quick naked example? Pretty please?


----------



## feck

For $375 I had to jump in. They sound excellent on the demos - psyched to work with them.


----------



## maestro2be

VSL simply releases a patch update that you run. It's lightning fast and very simple. I have never seen them do it any other way.


----------



## wbacer

As of today they've released the 1st Violins and Cellos Stereo Libraries.
Stereo Violins sound great, downloading Cellos now.
Their VEPro templates are a great place to start and I like their iPad Remote App.
A bit of a learning curve but it's only day one.


----------



## muk

Looking forward to trying the library, but haven't had the time to download it yet. Out of curiosity: in the setup guide video Paul says that the 'stereo room mix presets' are a ready made mix from several mic positions, 'including the ones from the full library'. Are these presets included in the standard version of the library?


----------



## doubleattack

Inceptic said:


> So now that the violins are out, can someone please confirm how much RAM they use (Standard lib - stereo mixes - all articulations)?
> 
> Also, anyone know how VSL handles library updates? Do they make you re-download the entire sample library again?



Standard lib - stereo mixes in VE PRO - all articulations = 13,04 GB (all cells enabled)

Updates are handled as maestro2be wrote - simple running a patch file using the Directory Manager of VI / VI Pro.


----------



## Eptesicus

doubleattack said:


> Standard lib - stereo mixes in VE PRO - all articulations = 13,04 GB (all cells enabled)
> 
> Updates are handled as maestro2be wrote - simple running a patch file using the Directory Manager of VI / VI Pro.



13gb for just violin 1 for the standard library?!


----------



## doubleattack

Eptesicus said:


> 13gb for just the standard library?!



(edit)* for Vln a n d Cellos* - with a l l cells e n a b l e d 
You doesn't need it in real live.


----------



## jamwerks

Doesn't the ram usage depend on what preload buffer we set? When running from m.2 as I will be can't be the same as from a normal hard drive.


----------



## doubleattack

jamwerks said:


> Doesn't the ram usage depend on what preload buffer we set? When running from m.2 as I will be can't be the same as from a normal hard drive.


Yes it is. 13 GB is the preload size for the default buffer.


----------



## doubleattack

Eptesicus said:


> 13gb for just violin 1 for the standard library?!



No, sorry 13,56 for Vln a n d Cellos!


----------



## Eptesicus

doubleattack said:


> No, sorry 13,56 for Vln a n d Cellos!



and that is all articulations and the standard buffer size?


----------



## doubleattack

Eptesicus said:


> and that is all articulations and the standard buffer size?



Yes. Violins alone btw = 6,66 GB.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muk said:


> Looking forward to trying the library, but haven't had the time to download it yet. Out of curiosity: in the setup guide video Paul says that the 'stereo room mix presets' are a ready made mix from several mic positions, 'including the ones from the full library'. Are these presets included in the standard version of the library?



Yes, they're there.


----------



## lucor

So, are the Stereo Mixes actually mixed down samples (for reduced RAM usage) or is it just a preset with all mic positions loaded?


----------



## doubleattack

lucor said:


> So, are the Stereo Mixes actually mixed down samples (for reduced RAM usage) or is it just a preset with all mic positions loaded?



preset with all mic positions loaded in Vienna Ensemble PRO


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

lucor said:


> So, are the Stereo Mixes actually mixed down samples (for reduced RAM usage) or is it just a preset with all mic positions loaded?



There IS a complete set of samples which is in fact a mixdown of room mics. There is also a VI Pro preset including these samples and the MID mic samples. The latter acts as the close/direct portion of the sound and you simply adjust the mixer fader of that to taste.


----------



## fiestared

New video from Paul
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Series/Synchron_Strings_I#!Videos


----------



## novaburst

What size are we talking about for the standard, have not downloaded as yet.

Sorry if I missed the size


----------



## Eptesicus

The cello and 1st violins are about 35gb for the standard library (download size anyway).


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Installed size is 65.4 GB for Violins 1, 60.7 GB for Celli, standard library.


----------



## Critz

I'm amazed from the beautiness of some patches as much as I am disappointed from others..
Hard to judge at the moment the whole concistency, without that Synchron player is really a mess.
For sure this library is really too huge far what it offers.
Most of all, I really can't here the difference of 8 dynamic layers on long notes, and worst, I don't know if the variations on long notes are useful or not, I just know you can't play ostinatos with long notes because this library is not agile enough.

For the price, I'm happy. But at the moment I think I will just add the flautando, soft long notes dim/cresc to my template. I still have to totally rely on old libraries. VSL lost an opportunity here, you'll understand soon.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Now I'm really curious to hear what current string library is more agile than this one :D


----------



## Eptesicus

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Now I'm really curious to hear what current string library is more agile than this one :D



Indeed. The fast legato sounded more agile and realistic than anything i've heard so far in that cello demo video.


----------



## novaburst

Thanks for the size info dosent seem to bad, so I guess 500Gb SSD should be quite comfortable for standard, ok then that's a slam dunk.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Now I'm really curious to hear what current string library is more agile than this one :D



Dimensions Strings is like 4 times more agile. Berlin Strings are more agile, and with the blurred articulation feature sounds far more realistic during fast passages.


----------



## Vischebaste

Critz said:


> I'm amazed from the beautiness of some patches as much as I am disappointed from others..
> Hard to judge at the moment the whole concistency, without that Synchron player is really a mess.
> For sure this library is really too huge far what it offers.
> Most of all, I really can't here the difference of 8 dynamic layers on long notes, and worst, I don't know if the variations on long notes are useful or not, I just know you can't play ostinatos with long notes because this library is not agile enough.
> 
> For the price, I'm happy. But at the moment I think I will just add the flautando, soft long notes dim/cresc to my template. I still have to totally rely on old libraries. VSL lost an opportunity here, you'll understand soon.



I disagree with pretty much all of that. It feels like the opposite of a mess to me - it feels like a string library really done right. It sounds very consistent, very reliable (for example, no stac RRs that I would like to remove because they don't sound tight enough), the tone is cohesive across the articulations (so you don't get the feel that an articulation switch will sound like it was recorded at a different time, by a different player). Velocity wise, it feels very responsive and convincing. As for "not agile", the fast legatos are easily the most agile I've played in a string library. 

In addition to the quality that it oozes, it also seems like insane value for money (especially for the standard edition, which has more than enough mic positions for me, and especially with the current "buy 3, get 1 free" voucher offer).


----------



## holywilly

Can anyone notice the difference of sound between the regular vibrato and lyrical vibrato for long & legato? 

Also, I notice that the pizzicato patch has lower volume than other patches, I wish it can be fixed in the next update.


----------



## Critz

Vischebaste said:


> I disagree with pretty much all of that. It feels like the opposite of a mess to me - it feels like a string library really done right. It sounds very consistent, very reliable (for example, no stac RRs that I would like to remove because they don't sound tight enough), the tone is cohesive across the articulations (so you don't get the feel that an articulation switch will sound like it was recorded at a different time, by a different player). Velocity wise, it feels very responsive and convincing. As for "not agile", the fast legatos are easily the most agile I've played in a string library.
> 
> In addition to the quality that it oozes, it also seems like insane value for money (especially for the standard edition, which has more than enough mic positions for me, and especially with the current "buy 3, get 1 free" voucher offer).


I wonder what libraries did you played! Really! if you think you can really write a fast passages with Synchron Strings, I really beg you to do that and upload it here, and please tell me how you succeeded doing that!


----------



## doubleattack

holywilly said:


> ...
> 
> Also, I notice that the pizzicato patch has lower volume than other patches, I wish it can be fixed in the next update.



I think this is a misunderstanding. With this library you get a well balanced dynamic between a l l articulations; the pizz are as loud (or quiet) as they be naturally.


----------



## holywilly

doubleattack said:


> I think this is a misunderstanding. With this library you get a well balanced dynamic between a l l articulations; the pizz are as loud (or quiet) as they be naturally.



I downloaded and played the library, and the pizz just too quiet compared with other patches, even at the loudest dynamic. 

By the way, standard edition here.


----------



## Critz

holywilly said:


> I downloaded and played the library, and the pizz just too quiet compared with other patches, even at the loudest dynamic.
> 
> By the way, standard edition here.


Sorry, I think it's a matter of how we are used to other libraries' pizzicato. The balancing between articulation seems excellent.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

By the way, the library doesn't contain the repetition samples like many older VSL libraries do because they're actually worked into the normal articulation patches. The patches switch to connected performance repetitions themselves at appopriate tempos. Great idea!


----------



## dhlkid

So, is Synchron Str 1 worth to buy? If I have other libraries....

I use VSL chamber strings, Spitfire Chamber Strings & Cinematic Strings 2 on every project.


----------



## doubleattack

holywilly said:


> I downloaded and played the library, and the pizz just too quiet compared with other patches, even at the loudest dynamic.
> 
> By the way, standard edition here.



As Critz wrote, the balance is excellent - and a one to one image of nature.


----------



## Vischebaste

Critz said:


> I wonder what libraries did you played! Really! if you think you can really write a fast passages with Synchron Strings, I really beg you to do that and upload it here, and please tell me how you succeeded doing that!



Ok, here's something very rough and ready, knocked up in 2 minutes, with one articulation (Legato fast, lyrical) and no CC data.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-lefl-mp3.10895/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Critz

Vischebaste said:


> Ok, here's something very rough and ready, knocked up in 2 minutes, with one articulation (Legato fast, lyrical) and no CC data.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-lefl-mp3.10895/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Ahah, It's pretty clear any comment from me would sound untruthful. I wait other for users' feedback


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I'd stop feeding the troll at this point.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Vischebaste said:


> Ok, here's something very rough and ready, knocked up in 2 minutes, with one articulation (Legato fast, lyrical) and no CC data.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-lefl-mp3.10895/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Nice, just make sure you keep it violinistic though out, the last phrase sounds like a Liberace embellishment.


----------



## C-Wave

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> By the way, the library doesn't contain the repetition samples like many older VSL libraries do because they're actually worked into the normal articulation patches. The patches switch to connected performance repetitions themselves at appopriate tempos. Great idea!


Sounds like a very interesting concept, can you elaborate please?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

C-Wave said:


> Sounds like a very interesting concept, can you elaborate please?



The way it works is: at lower speeds, it's standard, one shot round robin samples. But when the time between repeated notes is less than 200ms, in the background the patch switches to a set of sliced up repetitions, so that the whole thing doesn't sound like a bunch of samples played one after the other very quickly, but like an actual performance. Works well and is one less thing to think about.


----------



## EuropaWill

Does anyone have both Dimension Strings and Synchron that can comment on the sound differences or better yet post the same midi file rendered in both as a comparison?


----------



## muk

EuropaWill said:


> Does anyone have both Dimension Strings and Synchron that can comment on the sound differences or better yet post the same midi file rendered in both as a comparison?



Downloading the violins at the moment. I'll probably post something sooner or later. Just judging from the demos and sneak peek vid Synchron and Dimension Strings sound very different.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The way it works is: at lower speeds, it's standard, one shot round robin samples. But when the time between repeated notes is less than 200ms, in the background the patch switches to a set of sliced up repetitions, so that the whole thing doesn't sound like a bunch of samples played one after the other very quickly, but like an actual performance. Works well and is one less thing to think about.


I think it's basically what every other professional libraries for kontakt does since years. Not trolling at all.
I think that's why Berlin Strings claims to have up to x24 rr for the spiccato patches. And those patches are gorgeous, you can really hear the up-downstroke.
Synchron Strings staccato works pretty well by the way, especially cellos super- shorts for my taste.


----------



## Eptesicus

Had a little play. I think it is really good. I have found a few dodgy/noisy notes though already which is quite unlike VSL...

Anyway it sounds brilliant straight out of the box which many libraries don't. You can really hear the benefit of the extra velocity layers in places, especially in the shorts.


----------



## Britpack50

No question the detailed mixing possible with VE/VI Pro are something else. If synchron player lives up to expectations it will be hard to resist. Making older libraries compatible withe SP would of course be too much to expect...wouldn't it?

Bigger question, I have is whether to invest (more) in VSL or make a move to OT (Berlin/Ark)...choices, choices. 

Now, where's that rock-opera I was working on?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> I think it's basically what every other professional libraries for kontakt does since years.



It isn't.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It isn't.


You think I'm trolling. I'm just realistic. I purchased Synchron Strings, and I tell you what I think.
This is the description of Berlin Strings (2014!!)

First True Adaptive Legato(including 4 legato types:Slurred, Agile (scripted), Fast Runs and Portamento)
Up to 24x RR Spiccatos
Extensive collection of different short notes
Playable Runs and pre-recorded octave runs (tempo synced)
Smaller Sections for more definition and detail
4 Mic Positions + Concert Master Mic (Violins I only)
Bow Stroke Control (soft, immediate, accented)
Up to 3 different vibrato expressions
Ostinato Arp Legato (fast leg 6RR and slow leg 3RRs true legato)
Basically is more than what Synchron Strings is offering.
VsL is working on the Synchron Player because, even if VI pro is better than Kontakt, at the moment it miss some big features. Not only a good way to handle multi mics, but it couldn't even let you control the attack of a long notes according to thw velocity, if you are using the xfade for the dynamic. As you see Paul rises the volume of the short layer, while in Kontakt you can control the attack with the velocity, while controlling the dynamic with a CC.


----------



## Casiquire

And...8 velocity layers? Same players, same room, and same sound? It's impossible to compare libraries point for point. You have to listen and decide if the unique sound and things offered are worth it to you.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> but it couldn't even let you control the attack of a long note according to thw velocity, if you are using the xfade for the dynamic. As you see Paul rise the volume of the short layer, while in Kontakt you can control the attack with the velocity, while controlling the dynamic with a CC.



That's exactly the kind of stuff you can set up in all kinds of ways in VI PRO. For example: soft attack sus in one cell, normal attack in another cell, marcato in another, set CC1 to velocity crossfade and switching between cells via velocity. Generally it seems like you simply don't really understand how the whole VSL concept works, aren't aware of what the player can do and how the libraries interlock with the software. Anyways. Guess you're gonna have to become happy with Berlin Strings then. Not sure what part of yourself you're trying to satisfy here.


----------



## Sovereign

What Critz I think is saying is that Synchron is not revolutionary, and also perhaps not always even evolutionary. To be fair, I'd have to agree (for now) to some degree. A number of issues will be solved with the Synchron player, other things I'm not so sure about yet. We'll see.


----------



## ctsai89

It's hard to beat Berlin strings. And synchron strings part 1 is half the price of Berlin at least for now

Only to be fair... but again, spitfire strings and Berlin strings, are not libraries that are easily beatable


----------



## jamwerks

Automatically switching art's according to velocity and other, will undoubtedly be part of their upcoming "playable" patches.


----------



## feck

I don't think that considering libraries in terms of "beating" each other is the best way to work with them. Learning the SOUND of each, along with the playability and the unique feature sets is pretty much the way I get the most enjoyment and productivity out of interfacing with orchestral sample sets these days.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> That's exactly the kind of stuff you can set up in all kinds of ways in VI PRO. For example: soft attack sus in one cell, normal attack in another cell, marcato in another, set CC1 to velocity crossfade and switching between cells via velocity. Generally it seems like you simply don't really understand how the whole VSL concept works, aren't aware of what the player can do and how the libraries interlock with the software. Anyways. Guess you're gonna have to become happy with Berlin Strings then. Not sure what part of yourself you're trying to satisfy here.


I think you misunderstood me, or most easily I explained myself badly. Or it's simply you who doesn't know how VI Pro works. If you switch between cells, you are not achieving what I was referring to, what Berlin or Spitfire or CSS do in Kontakt. Because according to your explanation, once you played that note, you cannot anymore change the dynamic to the note. In VI Pro, you have to choose if Velocity XF for a cell is Global, On or Off. And there's no way to control AT THE SAME TIME the dynamic of the attack with the velocity and the shape of the sustained part of the note with CC1 or CC2. 
I hope I did explained myself this time.


----------



## ctsai89

feck said:


> I don't think that considering libraries in terms of "beating" each other is the best way to work with them. Learning the SOUND of each, along with the playability and the unique feature sets is pretty much the way I get the most enjoyment and productivity out of interfacing with orchestral sample sets these days.



I've heard that too many times and I agree but

As you can see people aren't looking for synchron to be compliments of their other libraries. 

I'm in here fascinated by that there is potentially a library that can do it all(besides the post modern avant garde extended techniques) sound extremely realistic and be very playable at the same time, which Berlin/css and spitfire comes very close to being able to do.


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> It's hard to beat Berlin strings. And synchron strings part 1 is half the price of Berlin at least for now
> 
> Only to be fair... but again, spitfire strings and Berlin strings, are not libraries that are easily beatable


With 65 gbs only for Violin I, I think anyone should be able to beat them. Perhaps in VSL team they are so confident in their work that failed that miserably. Or simply, Spitfire and Berlin team are smarter/ahead.
As usual, VSL released the most clean library on the planet, with great consistency and this time even with a couple of patches with a great sound, thanks to the fact the library is now WET. 
But it seems also to me that VSL relies too much on the blindness of old loyal customers.


----------



## Arbee

Critz said:


> But it seems also to me that VSL relies too much on the blindness of old loyal customers.


I believe loyalty blindness applies to many libraries, Spitfire included. Sometimes when I hear praise on this forum in regard to "realism" I suspect I must be living on another planet entirely.

I like Synchron's sound but I'm not compelled by it. To me, the single biggest issue I hear in every "single ensemble" library is the lack of smearing on note attacks and releases. And this library is no exception from the little I've heard so far. I still suspect LASS is on the right track for an ensemble library.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> With 65 gbs only for Violin I, I think anyone should be able to beat them. Perhaps in VSL team they are so confident in their work that failed that miserably. Or simply, Spitfire and Berlin team are smarter/ahead.
> As usual, VSL released the most clean library on the planet, with great consistency and this time even with a couple of patches with a great sound, thanks to the fact the library is now WET.
> But it seems also to me that VSL relies too much on the blindness of old loyal customers.




I've been watching the synchron cello teaser and other stuff that has been out so far and I kind of agree with you that it's like the old Vsl stuff all over again but the thing that's different is the wet. 

I mean with the hall sound added, it is nice and has a nice tone similar to spitfire's but I can't help but still cringe at the legato for how "synthy" it sounded to my ears


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> I've been watching the synchron cello teaser and other stuff that has been out so far and I kind of agree with you that it's like the old Vsl stuff all over again but the thing that's different is the wet.
> 
> I mean with the hall sound added, it is nice and has a nice tone similar to spitfire's but I can't help but still cringe at the legato for how "synthy" it sounded to my ears


Honestely I find the Spitfire legato quitesynthy too. But at least is pleasant. The vibrato control is the most synthy thing I heard since ever, also, but you can avoid to control it.
I also think that part of the beautiness of Spitfire Strings is that samples are really, really wet. If you add MIRacle over Synchron Strings, you can have a really beautiful sound too.

Unfortunately, Synchron Strings is even less than what VSL was offering in the past. This time they released a library that has less articulations than anyone else. I mean...there's not portamento (and no! slur legato cannot works instead of portamento), there's no sul G, there's not bow repeat, even harmonics are missing. But according to them, we should use 50 gbs of our RAM to run them. And users are happy to layer old libraries! So happy. 
If you think about that...VSL is releasing a library (Synchron) that should be finally easy to program...the problem is that to accomplish a quite simple phrase (perhaps you may need a portamento or to repeat a legato note), you need to layer it with old libraries, that are very time-consuming. So now you need even more time and far more ram to program the same stuff, just because you may obtain a better sound!


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> Honestely I find the Spitfire legato quitesynthy too. But at least is pleasant. The vibrato control is the most synthy thing I heard since ever, also, but you can avoid to control it.
> I also think that part of the beautiness of Spitfire Strings is that samples are really, really wet. If you add MIRacle over Synchron Strings, you can have a really beautiful sound too.
> 
> Unfortunately, Synchron Strings is even less than what VSL was offering in the past. This time they released a library that has less articulations than anyone else. I mean...there's not portamento (and no! slur legato cannot works instead of portamento), there's no sul G, there's not bow repeat, even harmonics are missing. But according to them, we should use 50 gbs of our RAM to run them. And users are happy to layer old libraries! So happy.
> If you think about that...VSL is releasing a library (Synchron) that should be finally easy to program...the problem is that to accomplish a quite simple phrase (perhaps you may need a portamento or to repeat a legato note), you need to layer it with old libraries, that are very time-consuming. So now you need even more time and far more ram to program the same stuff, just because you may obtain a better sound!


Can't go wrong with having high standards like yourself @Critz !


----------



## holywilly

After few hours of playing around this library, I’m really impressed by the sound and playability of this library, it just sounds elegant! 

The main LR capture the beautiful ambience of the synchron stage and it becomes my favorite patch. 

Can’t wait for the newly designed synchron player and the rest of the sections to release!

Purchased with the voucher, it’s a no brained!


----------



## CorgiKing

holywilly said:


> After few hours of playing around this library, I’m really impressed by the sound and playability of this library, it just sounds elegant!
> 
> The main LR capture the beautiful ambience of the synchron stage and it becomes my favorite patch.
> 
> Can’t wait for the newly designed synchron player and the rest of the sections to release!
> 
> Purchased with the voucher, it’s a no brained!




I agree. They're gorgeous. I'm writing with them right now and my ideas are coming out faster, cleaner, and more naturally than I'm used to when compared to my CSS and Spitfire workhorses. And it seems that they layer up nicely with my previous Vienna strings libraries. Pretty pleased. Now gimme the rest of 'em!


----------



## Vik

How well can Synchron strings do this kind of stuff?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

holywilly said:


> I downloaded and played the library, and the pizz just too quiet compared with other patches, even at the loudest dynamic.
> 
> By the way, standard edition here.



Pizzis are not loud, in particular they are quite articulation just because of the nature how they are produced. When they go loud they start to sound nasty and snappy which is not very musical. I don´t have the library but often people have wrong conceptions about how loud pizz articulations are and in reality they are a way lower in volume than sustains, and spiccato. When you think they are too quite, it can be maybe also that you fall in the missconception because other libraries normalize those articulations? 
Most of the mockups I hear also use too loud pizzicato, sometimes they cut through the mix even when there are trombones and trumpets blasting on forte which is total nonsense.


----------



## Fry777

Anyone able to post a quick demo of the legato ? Like a short melody played out of the box


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## dhowarthmusic

Vik said:


> How well can Synchron strings do this kind of stuff?



I just got the Synchrony Strings Violins 1 and Cellos and just been playing around with them for an hour or so. I like them. The Berlin are much more expressive and have a stronger vibrato but the Synchron are cleaner sounding and don't sound as wet as the Berlin. The Synchron seem to be missing a molto vibrato layer. Even the 8th strongest layer is quite light on the vibrato.


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Fry777 said:


> Anyone able to post a quick demo of the legato ? Like a short melody played out of the box


Here you go. This is the Violins 1 legato fast lyrical vibrato patch with the Room Mix Mic. Out of the box. No Mod wheel just velocity control. The legato fast patch worked better for this melody as the other legatos were too slow.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-vsl-synchron-violins-1-mp3.10911/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## feck

Another thing to keep in mind - the way it currently performs with the VSL player is likely very different from how it will perform with its own dedicated player. Might be best to reserve judgment on legatos and transitions until the Synchron player is released. At this point with VSL’s reputation, I think they don’t have to prove their forward thinking tendencies.


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Fry777 said:


> Anyone able to post a quick demo of the legato ? Like a short melody played out of the box


Here are the Cellos. This is the legato fast lyrical vibrato patch again with the Room Mix Mic. Out of the box. No Mod wheel, just velocity control.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-vsl-synchron-cellos-mp3.10912/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## CorgiKing

dhowarthmusic said:


> I just got the Synchrony Strings Violins 1 and Cellos and just been playing around with them for an hour or so. I like them. The Berlin are much more expressive and have a stronger vibrato but the Synchron are cleaner sounding and don't sound as wet as the Berlin. The Synchron seem to be missing a molto vibrato layer. Even the 8th strongest layer is quite light on the vibrato.



I'm going to echo this. I'm a Berlin fan. But in my side-by-sides with everything I own, just as dhowarthmusic says, Synchron are so much cleaner. They shine without sounding over polished. I wrote a small piece and tried laying down the same legato melodic lines across several libraries. Some of the others sounded more expressive on the first pass (CSS won right off for emotion) but in the end Synchron just sounded WAY better, and then with a second pass with more attention to controllers I was able to be just as expressive. 

I'm flat out rethinking my whole work template right now haha.


----------



## ctsai89

dhowarthmusic said:


> Here are the Cellos. This is the legato fast lyrical vibrato patch again with the Room Mix Mic. Out of the box. No Mod wheel, just velocity control.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-vsl-synchron-cellos-mp3.10912/][/AUDIOPLUS]



this makes me wonder if the players that were used to record actually had good instruments...

on the part that goes D4 D4 D3 C4 B3 A3: My ears tells me 3 strings were used to play that. The D3 could've been on the open string but instead it was played on the G string and then crosses up to the A string on the C4 afterwards... which is very weird and no professional cellists would ever do that, they would play that C4 with the 4th finger on D string instead. 

Ok but back the point: even if they for some reason and whatever reason didn't feel like playing it up in the 4th position and chose to cross over 2 strings during a "legato", if they had good instruments/strings then those strings would sound like they blend in with each other but they really didn't....


----------



## Vik

CorgiKing said:


> Some of the others sounded more expressive on the first pass (CSS won right off for emotion) but in the end Synchron just sounded WAY better, and then with a second pass with more attention to controllers I was able to be just as expressive.


Well, if this library can sound better than Berlin/CSS and just as expressive, it’s a truly great product. Looking forward to hear the examples of this. Thanks for the examples posted so far!


----------



## theiss1979

Eptesicus said:


> I have found a few dodgy/noisy notes though already which is quite unlike VSL...



May you please elaborate on this please? Examples?


----------



## Eptesicus

theiss1979 said:


> May you please elaborate on this please? Examples?



F# 3 and G3 (as these are only sampled per tone) on the cellos at high velocity is one example (quite a loud / awkward rebow I think) The cellos are generally a bit noisy in the middle of their range but might just be the bows but it seems a bit excessive.


----------



## ptram

As someone looking for an "instant orchestra", I wonder if this collections can be compared with Spitfire's Albion One. Compared to the classic VSL libraries, this one seems to stress on the idea of simplicity, as the Albion does. Are the Synchron and Albion comparable, and with which results?

Paolo


----------



## theiss1979

Eptesicus said:


> F# 3 and G3 (as these are only sampled per tone) on the cellos at high velocity is one example (quite a loud / awkward rebow I think) The cellos are generally a bit noisy in the middle of their range but might just be the bows but it seems a bit excessive.



Ok, thank you.


----------



## Saxer

Critz said:


> ...even if VI pro is better than Kontakt, at the moment it miss some big features... but it couldn't even let you control the attack of a long notes according to thw velocity, if you are using the xfade for the dynamic.


Well, that's not true.


----------



## novaburst

holywilly said:


> After few hours of playing around this library, I’m really impressed by the sound and playability of this library, it just sounds elegant!



They really thought this through, power with a lot of elegance, cant believe how delicate you can be with it, the sound of the synchron hall is out of this world.

The sound and tone feels very modern and once more this library is very addictive, detail has taken another meaning my thought is the standard of quality has gone through the roof and must say a big thanks to VSL for bring this product to the music world.

All the articulations is staggering for a standard VSL string library certainly a game changer my thoughts are it will be very hard to replace this library when you start using it, you want settle for anything less for playability, sound, tone, feel.

It really makes you want to stay with the synchron products through out, I feel very fortunate to be using such a product, it is special and after the dust settles many will find this fact out. 

it does not end there, the synchron player is still to come and I guess brass, woodwinds, will be something to look out to


----------



## Sebastianmu

dhowarthmusic said:


> Here you go. This is the Violins 1 legato fast lyrical vibrato patch with the Room Mix Mic. Out of the box. No Mod wheel just velocity control. The legato fast patch worked better for this melody as the other legatos were too slow.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-vsl-synchron-violins-1-mp3.10911/][/AUDIOPLUS]


I like the retro sound. Very 2002-ish! Nice!


----------



## Sovereign

Vik said:


> Well, if this library can sound better than Berlin/CSS and just as expressive, it’s a truly great product. Looking forward to hear the examples of this. Thanks for the examples posted so far!


Meh, I was going to hold back on these comments especially since Synchron is just partially complete, but c'mon, let's not delude ourselves here into thinking a purchase is great merely because we bought it. And no, it's not "better" than Berlin/CSS when it comes to the legatos and it is most certainly worse as far as I'm concerned. I am actually surprised how these turned out considering they are advertising big Hollywood blockbuster recordings to sell these strings. So far the legatos sound lifeless and thin. If that is "cleaner" it's not the cleaner I want. Take the Jurassic example dhowarthmusic posted then put the JW original next to it, doesn't even come close. Take any recent other lib (HW, CSS, SS, Berlin) and it *will* sound better.
It's not the Synchron hall here at fault, the hall sounds just fine. So I'll conclude their new revolutionary legato technique isn't working out properly, and/or they had the players sit there recording the legato intervals as if they were merely mechanical articulations rather than having the players play strong and passionate as if they were recording a real track. They should have dropped their VSL philosophy which started with the silent room. In the beginning of this thread when the first demos were posted there were issues noted about the legato being somewhat inaudible. Excluding the slurred legato, which also sounds different to a degree compared to other libraries, this is the case with all legato patches. To me, it almost gives the impression the legato is faked and scripted rather than being sampled. VSL should have looked more at the competition to see what works and what does not, it's not the first wet legato sample library after all. I doubt the Synchron player is going to improve on this.
I'll stop here for now but not lets pretend Synchron sounds revolutionary and "way better" than anything which has come before. Also, don't take my comments to be too negative. For the price this is still a very nice library.


----------



## Saxer

2ns violins avaliable...


----------



## Sovereign

Sebastianmu said:


> I like the retro sound. Very 2002-ish! Nice!





dhowarthmusic said:


> Here you go. This is the Violins 1 legato fast lyrical vibrato patch with the Room Mix Mic. Out of the box. No Mod wheel just velocity control. The legato fast patch worked better for this melody as the other legatos were too slow.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-vsl-synchron-violins-1-mp3.10911/][/AUDIOPLUS]


I think this does a disservice, Synchron can sound better than this and the fast patch is not suited for a melodical line. Here's an example using the slur legato, did do a bit of EQ though.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-vlns-slur-mp3.10915/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## novaburst

Saxer said:


> 2ns violins avaliable...



Downloading now, or am I downloading history in the making


----------



## prodigalson

This thread makes me laugh. I haven't downloaded the library yet but from reading here you'd think this library was either the worst string library to arrive in the last 5 years (recorded with bad players with bad instruments to boot lol) OR revolutionary and history in the making.

I wonder what I'll think when I finally get into it. Most likely I'll just think there are things I very much like and things I very much don't...just like every other library I own.


----------



## Vischebaste

prodigalson said:


> This thread makes me laugh. I haven't downloaded the library yet but from reading here you'd think this library was either the worst string library to arrive in the last 5 years (recorded with bad players with bad instruments to boot lol) OR revolutionary and history in the making.



They should've called it Schrodinger's Strings.


----------



## Critz

Sovereign said:


> Meh, I was going to hold back on these comments especially since Synchron is just partially complete, but c'mon, let's not delude ourselves here into thinking a purchase is great merely because we bought it. And no, it's not "better" than Berlin/CSS when it comes to the legatos and it is most certainly worse as far as I'm concerned. I am actually surprised how these turned out considering they are advertising big Hollywood blockbuster recordings to sell these strings. So far the legatos sound lifeless and thin. If that is "cleaner" it's not the cleaner I want. Take the Jurassic example dhowarthmusic posted then put the JW original next to it, doesn't even come close. Take any recent other lib (HW, CSS, SS, Berlin) and it *will* sound better.
> It's not the Synchron hall here at fault, the hall sounds just fine. So I'll conclude their new revolutionary legato technique isn't working out properly, and/or they had the players sit there recording the legato intervals as if they were merely mechanical articulations rather than having the players play strong and passionate as if they were recording a real track. They should have dropped their VSL philosophy which started with the silent room. In the beginning of this thread when the first demos were posted there were issues noted about the legato being somewhat inaudible. Excluding the slurred legato, which also sounds different to a degree compared to other libraries, this is the case with all legato patches. To me, it almost gives the impression the legato is faked and scripted rather than being sampled. VSL should have looked more at the competition to see what works and what does not, it's not the first wet legato sample library after all. I doubt the Synchron player is going to improve on this.
> I'll stop here for now but not lets pretend Synchron sounds revolutionary and "way better" than anything which has come before. Also, don't take my comments to be too negative. For the price this is still a very nice library.


Amen to that. It's useless to believe the Synchron Player will improve the sound quality. It could improve the workflow, not the quality of the legato.
The fact this library requires a lot of work to get decent results with every legato phrase, was pretty clear since first demos. And it's clear now that you see how different is the result in the work of @Sovereign and the one from @dhowarthmusic (man...what the sense to post a work like that? I think you scared several customers with that fast shot  )

@Sovereign sorry if I ask you: did you miss a specific patch or a feature for that rebowed notes in the theme? Personally it freaks me out that with 65 gbs of samples (for violin I) I don't have a feature to perform re-bowing on the same note, like CSS does with the sustained pedal.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Hehe, yes, this thread is kinda bi-polar 

For now I like what I've got. Clean, spacious, but not muddy, expressive as hell (amount of layers do the work!).

But despite being fan of VI sampler it just doesn't work for me in this multi mic / multi legato / multi vibratos setup. I like to keep things simple and for now it is impossible. I think this is something that Synchron Player should (and needs to) address. I believe it will pull out some stuff from "under the hood" (things like legato volume etc.). But sound wise, despite my first reactions, they are very, very good, warmish, natural, lively.

But that huge amount of space needed to install them is a bit baffling...


----------



## Tfis

@Critz 

Wanna sell it? How much?


----------



## dhlkid

So, is it worth to pull the trigger? Early bird offer will end soon.....


----------



## meradium

This all kind of reminds me of my own Synchron Percussion thread back then... The samples are great, the handling is, well... different .

In terms of sound, what I hear so far very much reminds me of what I used to associate with VSL tone. And honestly, I am kind of glad it does because it helps me to hide my wallet 

Looking forward to hear more real customer examples - hopefully also from non die-hard VSL fans. 

Even though the current price is very reasonable, I think I will not jump on it. Too many question marks.


----------



## rottoy

Listened through the examples posted by users. I'm honestly baffled how synthy they all sound.


----------



## N.Caffrey

rottoy said:


> Listened through the examples posted by users. I'm honestly baffled how synthy they all sound.


That was my thought too


----------



## Critz

Tfis said:


> @Critz
> 
> Wanna sell it? How much?


VSL offers 30 days refund in case, bu keep kidding me  Meanwhile people feedbacks confirm what I said.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

prodigalson said:


> This thread makes me laugh. I haven't downloaded the library yet but from reading here you'd think this library was either the worst string library to arrive in the last 5 years (recorded with bad players with bad instruments to boot lol) OR revolutionary and history in the making.
> 
> I wonder what I'll think when I finally get into it. Most likely I'll just think there are things I very much like and things I very much don't...just like every other library I own.



Yeah, it's ridiculous.

The compulsive whining is pathetic, I don't know what it's good for. On the other hand, I don't know what some people were expecting. Do people still fall for the grand marketing talk? Every time Spitifre makes a synth patch or records a sul tasto, they tell us it's a "game changer". With Sychron Strings, it's "legato reinvented". What's there to reinvent about legato, anyway?

I own string libraries by VSL, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Cinematic Studio Series and EastWest (but apparently, I still suffer from "blind loyalty" to a particular company). And all I can say is: does any of them sound bad? No. They all actually sound great. String libraries have been sounding great and realistic for several years now. On the other hand, all of these products have things about them that really annoy me. Without exception. What are people expecting?

I already wrote it in this thread: all I expected from Synchron Strings is what I always appreciated from VSL - great consistency, exceptional playability and scripting, powered by powerful software. This time along with beautiful sense of space and very detailed dynamics. That's what I got - for a very good price.


----------



## Sovereign

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The compulsive whining is pathetic, I don't know what it's good for. On the other hand, I don't know what some people were expecting. Do people still fall for the grand marketing talk?


Perhaps, perhaps not. No library is above criticism. It's VSL who put the bar that high claiming their legato will bring "a newly heightened realism". You might say that's marketing talk, I would say it's something they did not deliver (yet).


----------



## Critz

Listen to the user excerpt!! This is not a reinvented legato. This is an ugly legato. This is an unexpressive playing. The attack and the release of phrases sounds synthy because of that.
It's not just a matter of expectations. I should basically dedicate a slave machine for the Synchron Series because it's huge. And for what? For having to struggle at the first melodic line?
Should I post the Williams' example played by CSS? 39 gb library (with more articulations)


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> Listen to the user excerpt!! This is not a reinvented legato. This is an ugly legato. This is an unexpressive playing. The attack and the release of phrases sounds synthy because of that.
> It's not just a matter of expectations. I should basically dedicate a slave machine for the Synchron Series because it's huge. And for what? For having to struggle at the first melodic line?
> Should I post the Williams' example played by CSS? 39 gb library (with more articulations)



Why don't you return it? They're gonna refund you the money. Do you want us all to hold your hand? Kiss the owie and make it better? I'm confused, really.


----------



## Piotrek K.

VSL has that peculiar ailment - demos never got to me, they indeed sounded "synthy" and hearing Jurassic Park theme performed with "poor synth" doesn't bring that magic known from theater, but when I started to play with VSL for the first time... So yeah, I'm liking those strings more and more. And they seem to be much deeper than on a first glance. The more I play with them, the more they grow on me.

So [timpani crescendo roll] another user demo! Here is a little test from me - 1st and 2nd violins (legato patches for those are not available yet) + cellos. First without reverb, premixed patches, second with reverb.



I like it. And I don't mean I like my music. I like the sound of the strings.



> You might say that's marketing talk, I would say it's something they did not deliver (yet).



Marketing is a mean bitch, but I would add here also this early bird = November release thing. Hype train left the station way to early.


----------



## Vovique

Tons of layers and gigabytes aside, the sound reminds me of a basic strings patch on my Korg Triton. I still use and love VSL Horns, Trumpets and Clarinets though.


----------



## Eptesicus

Vovique said:


> Tons of layers and gigabytes aside, the sound reminds me of a basic strings patch on my Korg Triton. I still use and love VSL Horns, Trumpets and Clarinets though.



I'm sorry but this simply isn't accurate. I have them and they sound just as good if not better than other string libraries. To say they sound like korg synth is just stupid.


----------



## eli0s

Guys, I'm trying to be fair here, let me first thank you for putting examples and sharing your thoughts, but the library does sound synthy, although this is evidently worse because a string instrument is being played flat with a keyboard! Even the guy from Vienna doesn't do justice to the product, presenting a string library with no dynamic control within the notes!!!
Off course it will sound synthy! Any string library will sound terrible played this way! The notes are static and disconnected because there is no dynamic consistency between them, different velocity samples are being triggered with no bridging between them, and after that, the sound stay still with no further development!

I am also baffled by this. The praise I read in this topic doesn't match at all with what I hear, and I (still) trust my ears! But I wonder if the library is really not that good or if it's misrepresented with bad examples even from the official walkthrough.


----------



## Eptesicus

Critz said:


> Listen to the user excerpt!! This is not a reinvented legato. This is an ugly legato. This is an unexpressive playing. The attack and the release of phrases sounds synthy because of that.
> It's not just a matter of expectations. I should basically dedicate a slave machine for the Synchron Series because it's huge. And for what? For having to struggle at the first melodic line?
> Should I post the Williams' example played by CSS? 39 gb library (with more articulations)



Yes, play the Williams excerpt, dry with nothing added using css 1st violins and post it here.


----------



## Vovique

Eptesicus said:


> I'm sorry but this simply isn't accurate. I have them and they sound just as good if not better than other string libraries. To say they sound like korg synth is just stupid.


Of course they don't, and that's not what I meant. Korg strings were recorded somewhere played by someone some day, so the tone of Synchron strings does remind me of those patches).


----------



## prodigalson

I don't think someone can post a "first test" while blatantly stating there was NO CC data included and the takeaway then is that is how the Library sounds. 

Every library needs CC data. And no, the "tone" itself is not worth listening to without care being put in SOME WAY into expression. Your ears will be biased by the lack of it. 

I personally will hold judgement until I see what I can do with it myself or someone posts something with at least a modicum of care being put into actually trying to make it sound good.


----------



## Eptesicus

prodigalson said:


> I don't think someone can post a "first test" while blatantly stating there was NO CC data included and the takeaway then is that is how the Library sounds.
> 
> Every library needs CC data. And no, the "tone" itself is not worth listening to without care being put in SOME WAY into expression. Your ears will be biased by the lack of it.
> 
> I personally will hold judgement until I see what I can do with it myself or someone posts something with at least a modicum of care being put into actually trying to make it sound good.



This. No string ensemble library sounds very realistic just playing it dry with one section and on a keyboard, especially melodic lines.

Piotreks example sounds lovely for example.


----------



## jamwerks

Piotrek K. said:


> So yeah, I'm liking those strings more and more. And they seem to be much deeper than on a first glance. The more I play with them, the more they grow on me..


I'm liking that raw sound better than in some other demos. Could just be my headphones, but some eq'ing of the violins might be called for here.


----------



## wcreed51

The Basses are available now...


----------



## ctsai89

N.Caffrey said:


> That was my thought too



Same


----------



## ctsai89

eli0s said:


> Guys, I'm trying to be fair here, let me first thank you for putting examples and sharing your thoughts, but the library does sound synthy, although this is evidently worse because a string instrument is being played flat with a keyboard! Even the guy from Vienna doesn't do justice to the product, presenting a string library with no dynamic control within the notes!!!
> Off course it will sound synthy! Any string library will sound terrible played this way! The notes are static and disconnected because there is no dynamic consistency between them, different velocity samples are being triggered with no bridging between them, and after that, the sound stay still with no further development!
> 
> I am also baffled by this. The praise I read in this topic doesn't match at all with what I hear, and I (still) trust my ears! But I wonder if the library is really not that good or if it's misrepresented with bad examples even from the official walkthrough.



Spitfire could sound real good and real realistic without the cc. I think it's mainly due to that synchron doesn't have as much release samples as other libraries do. 

Keep trusting your ears, they don't lie. I know mine doesn't either. I've played in orchestras and listened to recordings of orchestral music all my life. 

Synchron not sounding good. Sorry


----------



## ctsai89

It's not just hw, CSS, Berlin, spitfire

Even the less popular NISS and cinestrings also have better sounding legatoed

8dio strings as well


----------



## jamwerks

ctsai89 said:


> I think it's mainly due to that synchron doesn't have as much release samples as other libraries do


Are you sure about that?


----------



## ctsai89

jamwerks said:


> Are you sure about that?



I meant the release samples dont' sound as long. Not the # of it


----------



## muziksculp

I'm not very fond of the currently posted demos, but I'm quite confident that we will hear better sounding demos of Synchron Strings I in the near future, that showcase more connected legatos, in more transparent string heavy compositions.

imho. the current demos have too much brass, and perc. which distract from hearing the strings alone. Also bear in mind that the full library is not completed yet. So it's a bit early to judge them, the Synchron Player is another missing component that might offer some significant improvements to what we hear, and how they play and sound, but it looks like we will have to wait for it a little longer.


----------



## Piotrek K.

> Every library needs CC data. And no, the "tone" itself is not worth listening to without care being put in SOME WAY into expression. Your ears will be biased by the lack of it.



The tone is very important. A lot of people passes on libraries, because of that. People still use EW Symphonic Orchestra, because of what? Legato? I don't think so  On the other hand perfect demos can fake you into thinking that you can achieve the same. And what if you won't? In simple, exposed demos you know what you get out of the box. The rest is up to you. And it seems synchron has more than meets the eye. BTW, I'm not defending my test here, even though I like it hehe.


----------



## Rob Elliott

CorgiKing said:


> I'm going to echo this. I'm a Berlin fan. But in my side-by-sides with everything I own, just as dhowarthmusic says, Synchron are so much cleaner. They shine without sounding over polished. I wrote a small piece and tried laying down the same legato melodic lines across several libraries. Some of the others sounded more expressive on the first pass (CSS won right off for emotion) but in the end Synchron just sounded WAY better, and then with a second pass with more attention to controllers I was able to be just as expressive.
> 
> I'm flat out rethinking my whole work template right now haha.


hmmm - looking forward to this experiment. CSS for 'expression' and non-synthiness is top drawer. that you were able to get the legatos on par with that standard AND maybe surpass it - is saying something. Others find that to be the case with a CSS v. VSL side by side?


----------



## Rob Elliott

eli0s said:


> Guys, I'm trying to be fair here, let me first thank you for putting examples and sharing your thoughts, but the library does sound synthy, although this is evidently worse because a string instrument is being played flat with a keyboard! Even the guy from Vienna doesn't do justice to the product, presenting a string library with no dynamic control within the notes!!!
> Off course it will sound synthy! Any string library will sound terrible played this way! The notes are static and disconnected because there is no dynamic consistency between them, different velocity samples are being triggered with no bridging between them, and after that, the sound stay still with no further development!
> 
> I am also baffled by this. The praise I read in this topic doesn't match at all with what I hear, and I (still) trust my ears! But I wonder if the library is really not that good or if it's misrepresented with bad examples even from the official walkthrough.


Spot on argument - can much better programming (leaving NOTHING static for longer than a millisecond) help? Users - do you find this the case? With all those dyn layers and vel layers we ought to be able to CC the heck out of this library. Right?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Hmm, I listened to the couple of examples on the last 2 pages and I would say it this time very diplomatic: It sounds very restrained to my ears. But that is how I am used to VSL Sounding samples, very clean, not much baked in performance in the longs, and shorts, no bownoises. Everything is very clinic and almost perfectly in tune. I don´t want to shit on an unfinished product but I feel that I would miss exactly those things which I find important for realism: Scratches, Noise, no perfect tuning, baked in performance (even if a parody, better then none) and therefore expression with "intention". The production and clarity of the sound is great though, but sound and clarity..is not what makes a believable performance for me.


----------



## Vik

IMHO, VSL needs demos which clearly show dynamic crossfades (in solo mode) and vibrato control. If they want to back up statements like "revolutionary legatos" and "heightened realism", they need to demonstrate this with demos. There are many convincing factory and user compositions for other libraries (here's one of them: ). Without something which shows Synchron at it's best, it will be hard to stick out in the crowd - especially since some libraries have demos which sometimes (unfortunately) gives a 'false' good impression of what they can do.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Vik said:


> IMHO, VSL needs demos which clearly show dynamic crossfades (in solo mode) and vibrato control. If they want to back up statements like "revolutionary legatos" and "heightened realism", they need to demonstrate this with demos. There are many convincing factory and user compositions for other libraries (here's one of them: ). Without something which shows Synchron at it's best, it will be hard to stick out in the crowd - especially since some libraries have demos which sometimes (unfortunately) gives a 'false' good impression of what they can do.



What was this library?

edit: btw - I agree with you on dyn xfades and controlling vibrato - without a TON (I mean tons) of this anything sounds like a Korg synth.


----------



## NoamL

That's CSS


----------



## muk

Violas released. Now that all sections are here - even if missing legatos - we'll hopefully start to get a better impression of the library. I've almost finished building a Synchron Strings template and I am looking forward to test them properly. One thing is already certain: compared to Dimension Strings creating a template for Synchron Strings is a piece of cake.


----------



## wbacer

Now that all of the stereo strings are available for download, in additional to the 1st Violins, 2nd Violins, Violas, Cellos and Basses links, there is also a download link for Strings. Is this a one link to download them all or something different?


----------



## doubleattack

wbacer said:


> Now that all of the stereo strings are available for download, in additional to the 1st Violins, 2nd Violins, Violas, Cellos and Basses links, there is also a download link for Strings. Is this a one link to download them all or something different?



I think it's a full range string patch for sketching.


----------



## wbacer

doubleattack said:


> I think it's a full range string patch for sketching.


We'll, I'll soon find out, downloading down. That would be great if that's what it is. The link is only 1.4 KB as opposed the other links which are in the hundreds. Hopefully you're right.


----------



## erica-grace

wbacer said:


> Is this a one link to download them all




Personally, I would rather have one ring to rule them all. Just sayin'


----------



## Sovereign

Am I mistaken or are the legato intervals sampled at only one dynamic? Play a repeating figure (eg. F3 - D#4) and listen to the slur legato, slowly crossfading from the lowest to the highest dynamic. I do not hear any real timbre change in the legato transition, only an increase in volume.


----------



## Critz

Sovereign said:


> Am I mistaken or are the legato intervals sampled at only one dynamic? Play a repeating figure (eg. F3 - D#4) and listen to the slur legato, slowly crossfading from the lowest to the highest dynamic. I do not hear any real timbre change in the legato transition, only an increase in volume.


Even worst, I'm afraid Is the same slur legato for more than an interval. If I play different intervals I always hear the same kind of slur legato, and the result is a machine gun effect...


----------



## dhlkid

omiroad said:


> I was extremely close to getting it but I think I'll hold off...


Me too


----------



## ctsai89

So we have the culprit to why the legato sounds the way it does now? Lol 

That's dissapointing..


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Fry777 said:


> Anyone able to post a quick demo of the legato ? Like a short melody played out of the box


I added the V2 from the John Williams score for the Jurassic Park Theme and the V1 are now playing the normal legato with some mod wheel expression. The louder section is using the highest velocity layer so you have hear how intense the vibrato is. The V2 are using the Long Lyrical Vibrato patch and are not legato as the V2 legato is not available yet.

The second version I tried to tweak and polish the sound to try to get rid of the synthy sound.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-synchron-v1-2-mp3.10925/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-synchron-v1-2-with-dark-polish-2-mp3.10926/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## doubleattack

Critz said:


> Even worst, I'm afraid Is the same slur layer for more than an interval. If I play different intervals I always hear the same kind of slur layer, and the result is a machine gun effect...



Even worst, the violas, 2. violin and basses don't have any legato at all...

To be serious:

You give yourself as a professional, but in truth you draw amateur conclusions.
This is the overview of all legato possibilities:

Legato - regular, vibrato / no vibrato / lyrical 8/8/5 velocity layers
Legato - soft, vibrato / no vibrato / lyrical 7/7/5 velocity layers
Legato - fast, vibrato / no vibrato / lyrical 8/8/5 velocity layers, 6 variations
Legato - slurred, vibrato / no vibrato / lyrical 8/8/5 velocity layers

4 different legatos in each of 3 different types of treatment of the sound.

For repeating phrases, only the patches with the 6 variations should be used - with the desired type of vibrato/non vibrato.

All other Legato species will not sound as desired or bad, including the machine gun effect.

The slurred vibrato patch I would therefore not use in repetitive phrases, which you have tried and now do not get tired of omitting the shortcomings of this legatos and spread as the only possible here.

You might as well try to create fast passages with the soft vibrato patch and just pretend that the legato is no good, because it is uneven and produces jumps.

Of course you can let a race bike out of the tires, drive on the rims and say it's slower than a tricycle. But that is not serious. It's just stupid and annoying, leading uninformed readers to wrong conclusions.


----------



## chapbot

dhowarthmusic said:


> I added the V2 from the John Williams score for the Jurassic Park Theme and the V1 are now playing the normal legato with some mod wheel expression. The louder section is using the highest velocity layer so you have hear how intense the vibrato is. The V2 are using the Long Lyrical Vibrato patch and are not legato as the V2 legato is not available yet.
> 
> The second version I tried to tweak and polish the sound to try to get rid of the synthy sound.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-synchron-v1-2-mp3.10925/][/AUDIOPLUS]
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-synchron-v1-2-with-dark-polish-2-mp3.10926/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Good heavens this sounds horrible. I appreciate these "out of the box" demos as I like hearing the sound of the raw sample.

Hopefully the new player will somehow magically tie everything together. I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Good heavens this sounds horrible. I appreciate these "out of the box" demos as I like hearing the sound of the raw sample.
> 
> Hopefully the new player will somehow magically tie everything together. I'm not holding my breath.



I agree, this sounds horrible. Where is the Synchron Stage Sound in these samples, it's like I'm listening to a basic low end strings library for beginners.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> I agree, this sounds horrible. Where is the Synchron Stage Sound in these samples, it's like I'm listening to a basic low end strings library for beginners.


What I find very weird is that a company with the reputation of VSL are releasing this supposed earth-shattering library in such a [email protected] way - trickling out instruments, some unfinished (post before said "violas, 2. violin and basses don't have any legato at all"). Why not just wait a week or two, put it out in a finished form with the new player and post [email protected] demos? Potential customers (like me) are having a change of heart.


----------



## dhowarthmusic

chapbot said:


> What I find very weird is that a company with the reputation of VSL are releasing this supposed earth-shattering library in such a [email protected] way - trickling out instruments, some unfinished (post before said "violas, 2. violin and basses don't have any legato at all"). Why not just wait a week or two, put it out in a finished form with the new player and post [email protected] demos?


I agree. I posted the Jurassic Park which really exposes it's weakness. The emotion in the samples doesn't really compare to Hollywood Strings, Berlin Strings, Cinematic Strings, Cinematic Studio Strings, Spitfire Symphonic or Chamber Strings and many others which I have.


----------



## doubleattack

muziksculp said:


> I agree, this sounds horrible. Where is the Synchron Stage Sound in these samples, it's like I'm listening to a basic low end strings library for beginners.



It's not surprising. In the forum overview you can easily find out that here 55 robots shine with their presence...


----------



## ctsai89

muziksculp said:


> I agree, this sounds horrible. Where is the Synchron Stage Sound in these samples, it's like I'm listening to a basic low end strings library for beginners.



or is it for the pros who have the magic touch MIDI skills like no one does?


----------



## doubleattack

dhowarthmusic said:


> I agree. I posted the Jurassic Park which really exposes it's weakness. The emotion in the samples doesn't really compare to Hollywood Strings, Berlin Strings, Cinematic Strings, Cinematic Studio Strings, Spitfire Symphonic or Chamber Strings and many others which I have.



I really like that kind of humor.


----------



## ctsai89

the guy who did the cello sneak peak video on the synchron too... in the demonstration passages he keeps using the wrong fingerings on the keyboard ugh I couldn't help but cringe & think why didn't VSL hire more experienced musicians?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

dhowarthmusic said:


> I added the V2 from the John Williams score for the Jurassic Park Theme and the V1 are now playing the normal legato with some mod wheel expression. The louder section is using the highest velocity layer so you have hear how intense the vibrato is. The V2 are using the Long Lyrical Vibrato patch and are not legato as the V2 legato is not available yet.
> 
> The second version I tried to tweak and polish the sound to try to get rid of the synthy sound.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-synchron-v1-2-mp3.10925/][/AUDIOPLUS]
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-synchron-v1-2-with-dark-polish-2-mp3.10926/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Wtf is this? I have the library on my drive and wouldn't know how to reproduce this if I tried. As a matter of fact, I tried. This is very misrepresentative.


----------



## doubleattack

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Wtf is this? I have the library on my drive and wouldn't know how to reproduce this if I tried. As a matter of fact, I tried. This is very misrepresentative.



Keep calm. It's obvious trolling.


----------



## doubleattack

dhowarthmusic said:


> I added the V2 from the John Williams score for the Jurassic Park Theme and the V1 are now playing the normal legato with some mod wheel expression. The louder section is using the highest velocity layer so you have hear how intense the vibrato is. The V2 are using the Long Lyrical Vibrato patch and are not legato as the V2 legato is not available yet.
> 
> The second version I tried to tweak and polish the sound to try to get rid of the synthy sound.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-synchron-v1-2-mp3.10925/][/AUDIOPLUS]
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurrasic-park-theme-synchron-v1-2-with-dark-polish-2-mp3.10926/][/AUDIOPLUS]



A lot of effort for such a small community like us! Thank you!


----------



## chapbot

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Wtf is this? I have the library on my drive and wouldn't know how to reproduce this if I tried. As a matter of fact, I tried. This is very misrepresentative.


Then please, by all means, post a quick demo so we can compare.


----------



## C-Wave

I’m going to say this and I don’t care..
There are people here who are trying to derail this thread on purpose.. I suspect that they are doing everything to bring people not to buy this after VSL did the unthinkable and are offering this at such a rediculous price for the value it offers. All they have to do is keep doing this until Dec. 29 and then it will be over for many poor fellowsho would have missed the train. So sickening what people will do for few more dollars.. you people remind me of the rented fellows on stocktwits, who get paid to derail the prices of stocks while poor guys who don’t know they’re being manipulated. Shame on you.
You know what I think after I bought this, I am seriously considering buying as much vouchers as My walloped will allow; I can’t wait to load on the rest of the Synchron line.. and I have all of OT libraries (except Percussion), Spitfire SCS, LCO, BHCT, etc.. this library made me jump out of my seat when I started playing the Strings patch (It’s a scene for a middle aged man).. Ideas started pouring in like rain.
You know what, keep derailing this line,
I am going to be a little selfish and say this: I love when the sound of this library is not going to be on everybody’s drive; Good for business.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

C-Wave said:


> you people remind me of the rented fellows on stocktwits, who get paid to derail the prices of stocks while poor guys who don’t know they’re being manipulated.



I actually already asked myself if this supposed to be some smear campaign, but then thought, naah, come on. But on the other hand, in times of fake news, Putins Twitter troll factories and Trump rhetoric, it's not even that far-fetched.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I pre-ordered the full version of VSL Synchron Strings, and don't plan to install it until the entire full version, plus the new Synchron Player are released. 

I will most likely order it on their Vienna Drive, given the size of the full library. I'm not in a rush, and I'm also very confident that Synchron Strings will amaze me when I start using it. I have full faith in VSL, and their dedication to excellence. 

I also think VSL would have been better served if they released this library when everything was ready, I don't understand why they are rushing the release, especially when some important parts of the library, i.e. Legatos of the multi-dynamic layers are not ready yet, neither is their Synchron Player, which they feel will offer various improvements compared to using VI-Pro 2, and neither is the full version ready at this time. 

My feeling is non of the currently released audio demos of Sychron Strings do it justice, because it is not yet a completed product.


----------



## N.Caffrey

C-Wave said:


> I’m going to say this and I don’t care..
> There are people here who are trying to derail this thread on purpose.. I suspect that they are doing everything to bring people not to buy this after VSL did the unthinkable and are offering this at such a rediculous price for the value it offers. All they have to do is keep doing this until Dec. 29 and then it will be over for many poor fellowsho would have missed the train. So sickening what people will do for few more dollars.. you people remind me of the rented fellows on stocktwits, who get paid to derail the prices of stocks while poor guys who don’t know they’re being manipulated. Shame on you.
> You know what I think after I bought this, I am seriously considering buying as much vouchers as My walloped will allow; I can’t wait to load on the rest of the Synchron line.. and I have all of OT libraries (except Percussion), Spitfire SCS, LCO, BHCT, etc.. this library made me jump out of my seat when I started playing the Strings patch (It’s a scene for a middle aged man).. Ideas started pouring in like rain.
> You know what, keep derailing this line,
> I am going to be a little selfish and say this: I love when the sound of this library is not going to be on everybody’s drive; Good for business.



Could you post an example with these strings of something you consider good? I'm curious to hear it, as probably many others.


----------



## Vik

I doubt that anyone would bother spending energy on trying to make others not buy this library. Maybe Synchron Strings turns out being very good, after some updates. Mural ended up being a library many users like (as SSS), but was very limited in its initial version.


----------



## dhlkid

Anyone can post the whole stings demo?

Too many strings libraries these days,

if looking for sounds, VSL may not be a good choice.

But VSL offers 30 days money back, no harm to try anyway.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Well I was seriously thinking of making this my first VSL library, despite their draconian dongle policies, but now I'm not so sure.

It's all well and good accusing people of smearing VSL (thought for what reason I cannot imagine) but that simple Jurassic Park melody line is far from what I would expect from what is supposed to be a top notch string library.

Yes it's possible to make any library sound poor, but no-one is posting anything to show otherwise. I would love to hear some more simple lines from this library that are more representative - can anyone oblige.... ?


----------



## Pianolando

Can someone who has downloaded this library and likes it please post a simple demo, with all sections or only one, that actually sounds good?


----------



## muziksculp

Reading some of these posts, I have a feeling there is some built-in bias against VSL by specific users on this thread. I tend to ignore them.


----------



## Pianolando

muziksculp said:


> Reading some of these posts, I have a feeling there is some built-in bias against VSL by specific users on this thread. I tend to ignore them.



There is also a bias the other way around, people who have used VSL for years and years, and have bought this before any demos even existed. My ears cannot honestly hear the realism they are talking about, not from what’s posted so far. That’s why I think we need more demos, simple, good sounding ones. I want this to be amazing, but I don’t hear it yet.


----------



## muziksculp

Pianolando said:


> There is also a bias the other way around, people who have used VSL for years and years, and have bought this before any demos even existed. My ears cannot honestly hear the realism they are talking about, not from what’s posted so far. That’s why I think we need more demos, simple, good sounding ones. I want this to be amazing, but I don’t hear it yet.



I'm sure we will hear some amazing demos of Sychron Strings in action when the product is completed.


----------



## C-Wave

chapbot said:


> Then please, by all means, post a quick demo so we can compare.


Go to VSL.co.at, there is a demo tab there, click on it.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

C-Wave said:


> I’m going to say this and I don’t care..
> There are people here who are trying to derail this thread on purpose.. I suspect that they are doing everything to bring people not to buy this after VSL did the unthinkable and are offering this at such a rediculous price for the value it offers. All they have to do is keep doing this until Dec. 29 and then it will be over for many poor fellowsho would have missed the train. So sickening what people will do for few more dollars.. you people remind me of the rented fellows on stocktwits, who get paid to derail the prices of stocks while poor guys who don’t know they’re being manipulated. Shame on you.
> You know what I think after I bought this, I am seriously considering buying as much vouchers as My walloped will allow; I can’t wait to load on the rest of the Synchron line.. and I have all of OT libraries (except Percussion), Spitfire SCS, LCO, BHCT, etc.. this library made me jump out of my seat when I started playing the Strings patch (It’s a scene for a middle aged man).. Ideas started pouring in like rain.
> You know what, keep derailing this line,
> I am going to be a little selfish and say this: I love when the sound of this library is not going to be on everybody’s drive; Good for business.



It is great when you enjoy the library. I think there is no right or wrong with string libraries. We all have different kind of expactations and choices when it comes to sound and expression. And that you like the new VSL Strings is truely good, and there is no need to be sour when there are people here who don´t share that love that much like you. People are trying to derail this thread on purpose? At least my comment wasn´t having such of an intention, just to be clear. I think the sound of the new VSL Strings is very pristine and precise, just for my personal taste (which is hopefully ok to express) I missed a few things. Which is ok to say, isn´t it?


----------



## FriFlo

Hey guys! Christmas is coming!!! Stop fighting over this. Nobody needs to defend VSL, nobody needs to attack them. I haven't bought this library yet, but I probably will before the preorder ends. I will do this in spite of the fact that VSL kind of messed up with the release quite a bit. And I will do it in spite of me not being thrilled with everything I heared in the demos and walkthrough. I will buy it just because this is a great company with a long history and I have some confidence they will work their arses off and - if necessary - even record new samples to make this library what they promoted it to be.
To all the sceptics: why do I do that? Well, those guys have a lot of investment that went into the whole Synchron thing and if their library will not become a serious step upwards (not just by numbers of velocity layers, but by results!), it will pretty much ruin their company.
And to all those defenders: take it down a notch, please! You are not helping. You may have some valid points, but there is nothing to gain by telling others they are stupid or cons. These people who complain about not being overwhelmed by this library in its current state do have a right to express that. Hitting back and forth is just a meaningless dispute here at VIcontrol. Why don't you tell what you do like about this library and maybe back it up with some quick demos? This will be much more constructive and possibly persuade other sceptics to have some faith in this product. What you do here will only harden the doubts some people have here. It really won't help VSL with their sales, which is probably what you are intending ...


----------



## fiestared

There is a new demo on the VSL site "A Fresh Start" : https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Series/Synchron_Strings_I#!Demos


----------



## Michael Antrum

muziksculp said:


> I'm sure we will hear some amazing demos of Sychron Strings in action when the product is completed.



Sorry - I know there is a new player coming and that's fine - but are you saying that this is a beta version or something ? 

If the samples posted here are not what the library really sounds like - please can someone help out with something that shows it off a little ?

I hear that the library takes up a massive amount of drive space, though I'm not sure how much because on the VSL site it says its TBC..... Theres got to be much more than we've seen/heard so far

It would really help me get off the fence, and I'd be obliged if someone can help out here. You would be doing me, and a few others here, a real favour.

I am so hoping that this is a significant bump in trying sampling - as they say in the X files - I want to believe !!!


----------



## C-Wave

N.Caffrey said:


> Could you post an example with these strings of something you consider good? I'm curious to hear it, as probably many others.


I don’t do demos, these guys do:
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Series/Synchron_Strings_I#!Demos


----------



## Piotrek K.

> The second version I tried to tweak and polish the sound to try to get rid of the synthy sound.



Haha, I guess you polished it too much xD

But jokes aside, in my opinion VSL did few mistakes during this whole Early Bird thing including obvious delay.

They've risked with releasing unfinished product (fans and early adopters are more forgiving, right?). Second, they put those samples into player that is not meant for them. True, player won't change sound signature - either you like it or you don't, but player can make a lot of different things with samples themselves - tweaking, handling, playing. Legato is for me one of things that player can improve.

Also we are still waiting for this promise to come to life:


> Play short notes, long notes with various attacks, legatos, scalable vibrato intensities and note repetitions with a minimal need to switch articulations, and by moving just one or two preconfigured controllers.



So to people who are laughing out of current demos - enjoy the laughs, keep your money in wallets, and wait for full libraries + Synchron player. After that two thing are possible:  or  .


----------



## muk

Relax, user demos will come in time. But it takes time to download the library, create a template, and create a presentable mockup. And then it's Christmas time in case you haven't noticed. The official VSL demos vs the user demos posted here are miles apart. Make of that what you will. Finally, with VSL there is little need to rely on demos on a forum. Unlike with other companies you can buy the library, test it for 30 days, and if you don't like it give it back. So if you are seriously interested just do that instead of shouting for user demos and then cheering whenever something doesn't sound perfect.
Reading through this thread you get the impression that Synchron Strings are either the strings library to nullify all others and make them completely useless, or the worst synth string sound ever designed. Worse than a 20 years old cheap entry level library. Without having played with Synchron Strings for a second I can tell you this: they are neither.


----------



## ptram

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> But on the other hand, in times of fake news, Putins Twitter troll factories and Trump rhetoric, it's not even that far-fetched.


On the other hand, I'm starting to wonder if there is a bot factory of ridiculous messages saying: t'was the Putin trolls!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

ptram said:


> On the other hand, I'm starting to wonder if there is a bot factory of ridiculous messages saying: t'was the Putin trolls!



I imagine it must be tough for you.


----------



## Eptesicus

Why is everyone ignoring the demos that sound great, like the new one on the vsl site or the one earlier when someone actually took some care in doing it?

Yes a lot of the Jurassic Park theme melody demos sound naff but no one has posted one with another library to compare yet (and by that just the same, the melody line played 'naked' with just one violin 1 articulation).


----------



## Eptesicus

omiroad said:


> Because it's interesting to hear the quality of the patches instead of full productions.



Well let's have some comparisons then. A "Jurassic Park theme off" as it were.


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Eptesicus said:


> Well let's have some comparisons then. A "Jurassic Park theme off" as it were.


I can do it. I’ll render it with Cinematic Studio Strings, Berlin Strings, Spitfire Symphonic and maybe some others too. Just give me a couple of days as it’s Christmas tomorrow! Anyone else who has the full score can do it too.


----------



## Critz

doubleattack said:


> Even worst, the violas, 2. violin and basses don't have any legato at all...
> 
> To be serious:
> 
> You give yourself as a professional, but in truth you draw amateur conclusions.
> This is the overview of all legato possibilities:
> 
> Legato - regular, vibrato / no vibrato / lyrical 8/8/5 velocity layers
> Legato - soft, vibrato / no vibrato / lyrical 7/7/5 velocity layers
> Legato - fast, vibrato / no vibrato / lyrical 8/8/5 velocity layers, 6 variations
> Legato - slurred, vibrato / no vibrato / lyrical 8/8/5 velocity layers
> 
> 4 different legatos in each of 3 different types of treatment of the sound.
> 
> For repeating phrases, only the patches with the 6 variations should be used - with the desired type of vibrato/non vibrato.
> 
> All other Legato species will not sound as desired or bad, including the machine gun effect.
> 
> The slurred vibrato patch I would therefore not use in repetitive phrases, which you have tried and now do not get tired of omitting the shortcomings of this legatos and spread as the only possible here.
> 
> You might as well try to create fast passages with the soft vibrato patch and just pretend that the legato is no good, because it is uneven and produces jumps.
> 
> Of course you can let a race bike out of the tires, drive on the rims and say it's slower than a tricycle. But that is not serious. It's just stupid and annoying, leading uninformed readers to wrong conclusions.


To make a long story short: if a legato patch has 7 velocity layers, I expect 7 sampled legato dynamic layers as well. I don't expect always the same transition with scaled volume.


----------



## doubleattack

Critz said:


> To make a long story short: if a legato patch has 7 velocity layers, I expect 7 sampled legato dynamic layers as well. I don't expect always the same transition with scaled volume.



I've understand what you are looking for from the first moment. No explanation necessary. 
There are patches with multiple transition samples (in addition you can manipulate these with the A/B switches for the
ring and stopped release samples AFAIK from the Library Manual). 
But beside this:
From my point of view I think machine gun effects starts with the writing. 
Wallpaper patterns on the music stands will never sound interesting - even with live players. 
(In fact play such stuff it's hard and boring for the musicians at the same time.)
But maybe you are aiming for a different goal and you are in need of such an inflation of transition samples.
And reflects a sign of the times seems to me.


----------



## FriFlo

doubleattack said:


> From my point of view I think machine gun effects starts with the writing.
> Wallpaper patterns on the music stands will never sound interesting - even with live players.


Where do you take this wisdom from? There are and were many great composers using repetitive phrases as harmonic background and - let's face it: in todays film music you often have to write background only - no melody appreciated. Of course you may sometimes want to make something more interesting by arranging those patterns cleverly, but that is besides the point here: Repetitive phrases can sound great played live by an ensemble! Just listen to Philip Glass or anything in that minimal style. Wether you or I like that kind of music is completely irrelevant here, as this is one of the things I would hope a "next generation" string library to master: making played repetitive phrases sound natural! It may not be important to you, but I can tell you that a lot of film music composers are waiting for a library to make that possible!
Just look at one of the VIP customers of VSL, Alexandre Desplat - listen to his music and then tell me you do not find many repetitive phrases there ... don't you think he would find it important to sell a track to the director by his sample library enabling him to produce a realistic impression of an ensemble playing that?


----------



## Vik

Paul T McGraw said:


> People seem to be expecting a more slurred or portamento legato. In reality a performed string legato is a smooth change from note to note. There should be no portamento. None at all.


Portamento is a very common phenomenon in string instruments, and is one of the many colours that define what a string instrument can do. I think people expect to see it in a string library for that reason; it's not a 'mistake' one wants to avoid. I wonder if it's planned for a future version of Synchron Strings, or if they follow the ideology that string libraries shouldn't have portamento.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Vik said:


> Portamento is a very common phenomenon in string instruments, and is one of the many colours that define what a string instrument can do. I think people expect to see it in a string library for that reason; it's not a 'mistake' one wants to avoid. I wonder if it's planned for a future version of Synchron Strings, or if they follow the ideology that string libraries shouldn't have portamento.



I assume it was more about cutting corners and avoiding having to do YET more legato patches, considering there are so many already and in fact the legato is one of two things that still isn't complete (the other thing being the player).

In any case, I think it's one of the things that are sorely missed here. A detailed library like this should have portamento.


----------



## jamwerks

Vik said:


> Portamento is a very common phenomenon in string instruments, and is one of the many colours that define what a string instrument can do. I think people expect to see it in a string library for that reason; it's not a 'mistake' one wants to avoid. I wonder if it's planned for a future version of Synchron Strings, or if they follow the ideology that string libraries shouldn't have portamento.


Agree that portamento is needed. Hopefully in a future expansion !


----------



## holywilly

Maybe synchron strings II will included more articulation is including portamento, harmonics and more....who knows, but fingers cross!!


----------



## Sovereign

dhowarthmusic said:


> I can do it. I’ll render it with Cinematic Studio Strings, Berlin Strings, Spitfire Symphonic and maybe some others too. Just give me a couple of days as it’s Christmas tomorrow! Anyone else who has the full score can do it too.


Please, no Jurassic Park.  How about we try this instead.

A couple of days ago I did a mockup of a short piece from Desplat. I spent hours yesterday trying to do the same mockup with Synchron. It gave me such a headache that I stopped, and deleted it out of frustration (the mockup, not Synchron). Perhaps someone else has the courage to try. With CSS it was relatively unpainful. Not too much CC editing needed, there is also some EQ on CSS. Score included, and my CSS rendition. (it's pretty close to the score I think, left only a couple of things out). Have at it.

The original is here: 

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-css-test-mp3.10930/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Sovereign

omiroad said:


> Ugh.


I can't possibly see how people see honest criticism as a smear campaign. I can only speak for myself, but the thing is I really wanted to like Synchron, I wanted it to be fantastic with the implicit hope that the actual 'inventors' of legato sampling would do something revolutionary. That's what they promised and why I placed the pre-order in the first place.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I thought "ugh" was simply a sound monkeys make.


----------



## rottoy

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I thought "ugh" was simply a sound monkeys make.


I guess you don't do a whole lot of fraternizing in that ivory tower of yours.


----------



## Vik

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> A detailed library like this should have portamento.


Sure, but with 8 dynamic layers, multiple mic positions, different vibrato layers per dynamic layer (I guess?), maybe it would be difficult to handle all that data, if each of these layers also should be equipped with the usual portamento intervals (12 steps up and 12 steps down)?


----------



## doubleattack

FriFlo said:


> Where do you take this wisdom from? There are and were many great composers using repetitive phrases as harmonic background and - let's face it: in todays film music...?



I don't want to be lyrical, but I see a huge different between repetitive phrases and stupid repetitions. 
The former can be very successful, the latter is and remains stupid.


----------



## FriFlo

What really interests me: how do the 8 velocity layers behave when crossfading (fast and slow)? Can you sculpt expression with that better than with other libraries? I mean, so far there have been almost know string libraries with that many layers. Only Spitfire Bespoke comes to mind ... which turned out as unmanageable at that time. This is where I would love to hear your early adopters opinion and maybe some quick examples what can accomplished (no pieces, just quick examples with single patches).


----------



## Critz

FriFlo said:


> What really interests me: how do the 8 velocity layers behave when crossfading (fast and slow)? Can you sculpt expression with that better than with other libraries? I mean, so far there have been almost know string libraries with that many layers. Only Spitfire Bespoke comes to mind ... which turned out as unmanageable at that time. This is where I would love to hear your early adopters opinion and maybe some quick examples what can accomplished (no pieces, just quick examples with single patches).


Oh well..reading the manual: if you activate the velocity xfade (crossfading between layers instead of velocity) the player will skip the second more soft layer and the second more strong one. So it turns into a 6 velocity layer. And personally I don't see that difference compared to a 3 or 4 dynamic layers linrary. Even because the softest layersis available in a different patch. I suppose for the same phase issue reason.


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Sovereign said:


> Please, no Jurassic Park.  How about we try this instead.
> 
> A couple of days ago I did a mockup of a short piece from Desplat. I spent hours yesterday trying to do the same mockup with Synchron. It gave me such a headache that I stopped, and deleted it out of frustration (the mockup, not Synchron). Perhaps someone else has the courage to try. With CSS it was relatively unpainful. Not too much CC editing needed, there is also some EQ on CSS. Score included, and my CSS rendition. (it's pretty close to the score I think, left only a couple of things out). Have at it.
> 
> The original is here:
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-css-test-mp3.10930/][/AUDIOPLUS]



What’s wrong with using the Jurrasic Park Theme as an example? It’s a great and simple soaring melody that should be able to show off any library particularly this one with 8 velocity layers. However when playing it with the Synchron violins I just don’t feel all those layers.

It seems at the moment that I am the only one brave enough to post something with the Synchron violins alone playing a simple melody. It wasn’t easy for me to post it as it doesn’t sound great and some people think it is the way I played the melody in but I can assure you that is what the library sounds like and it’s not my bad playing.

Some users have said it misrepresents the library but I am yet to hear a version that sounds better. I took the violins 1+2 from the score and played them as written but it is very difficult to get the Synchron violins to sound expressive like the original theme. I’ll be posting it with several other libraries over the next couple of days so people can hear a direct comparison to libraries that they already own.

As this is a new product most users just want to hear the instruments solo but as yet there have been no demos out there with just the violins playing alone that are not hidden under percussion or any other instruments. There is a video demonstrating the cellos but violins are a totally different animal to make them sound real in my opinion. If the walkthrough video had been the violins then it would have been interesting to hear peoples thoughts on the sound as the violins are so much more exposed than the cellos.


----------



## ctsai89

Sovereign said:


> I can't possibly see how people see honest criticism as a smear campaign. I can only speak for myself, but the thing is I really wanted to like Synchron, I wanted it to be fantastic with the implicit hope that the actual 'inventors' of legato sampling would do something revolutionary. That's what they promised and why I placed the pre-order in the first place.



Same here. Unlike the putins and trumps who don't have great intentions towards liberals, I actually wanted to synchron to be successsful too and was fascinated by that it might have been earth shattering but.... I guess we'll see? And perhaps nothing much would change but still maybe they'll update it hmmmm. Who knows


----------



## ctsai89

jamwerks said:


> Agree that portamento is needed. Hopefully in a future expansion !



So synchron I doesn't have portamento.

So this library turns to be somewhat similar to what mural 1 offered a few years back? I remember it also had some pretty harsh sounding legato and bumpy starting notes


----------



## Sovereign

dhowarthmusic said:


> What’s wrong with using the Jurrasic Park Theme as an example? It’s a great and simple soaring melody that should be able to show off any library particularly this one with 8 velocity layers. However when playing it you just don’t feel all those layers.


Because JW has been warmed up so many times for mockups its getting long in the tooth. The JP theme has become a bore, and neither is the JP theme that demanding. The Desplat theme is short and shows off expressive string writing.



> Some users have said it misrepresents the library but I am yet to hear a version that sounds better. I took the violins 1+2 from the score and played them as written but it is very difficult to get it to sound expressive like the original theme.


Well, why do you think that is?


----------



## muziksculp

Hopefully VSL will post some detailed in-depth video walkthroughs of all the strings instruments, and the various articulations so we can hear them in action.


----------



## Eptesicus

Still waiting on this ultra realistic sounding Jurassic Park melody line played naked by another library's 1st violins....


----------



## maestro2be

I just read in the VSL Forums that VSL will be doing a Legato Video next week after X-Mas.


----------



## C-Wave

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> It is great when you enjoy the library. I think there is no right or wrong with string libraries. We all have different kind of expactations and choices when it comes to sound and expression. And that you like the new VSL Strings is truely good, and there is no need to be sour when there are people here who don´t share that love that much like you. People are trying to derail this thread on purpose? At least my comment wasn´t having such of an intention, just to be clear. I think the sound of the new VSL Strings is very pristine and precise, just for my personal taste (which is hopefully ok to express) I missed a few things. Which is ok to say, isn´t it?


Totally Ok. Happy to hear objective points of view like yours, even if they don’t agree with mine, I will always be a student, much more joyful, and happy holidays every one.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

C-Wave said:


> Totally Ok. Happy to hear objective points of view like yours, even if they don’t agree with mine, I will always be a student, much more joyful, and happy holidays every one.


Thank you and to you and everyone else: Merry Xmas. Let me get back to my gluewine :D


----------



## C-Wave

mikeybabes said:


> Sorry - I know there is a new player coming and that's fine - but are you saying that this is a beta version or something ?
> 
> If the samples posted here are not what the library really sounds like - please can someone help out with something that shows it off a little ?
> 
> I hear that the library takes up a massive amount of drive space, though I'm not sure how much because on the VSL site it says its TBC..... Theres got to be much more than we've seen/heard so far
> 
> It would really help me get off the fence, and I'd be obliged if someone can help out here. You would be doing me, and a few others here, a real favour.
> 
> I am so hoping that this is a significant bump in trying sampling - as they say in the X files - I want to believe !!!


It totals exactly 205 GB for the standard version (I.e. all articulations but no surround mikes) on my SSD, all sections downloaded.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Vik said:


> Portamento is a very common phenomenon in string instruments, and is one of the many colours that define what a string instrument can do. I think people expect to see it in a string library for that reason; it's not a 'mistake' one wants to avoid. I wonder if it's planned for a future version of Synchron Strings, or if they follow the ideology that string libraries shouldn't have portamento.



Perhaps you are right. I cannot think of a single time from the classical literature, even up to the early twentieth century that a portamento is written in the music. But I am old, perhaps my memory is faulty. Certainly, the avant-garde and film composers use portamento.


----------



## Sovereign

FriFlo said:


> What really interests me: how do the 8 velocity layers behave when crossfading (fast and slow)? Can you sculpt expression with that better than with other libraries? I mean, so far there have been almost know string libraries with that many layers.


The layers are smooth, but I'd have to say sculpting expression merely by crossfading between layers is a no show/difficult due to the fact that the players were too consistent. They seem to play with pretty much the same amount of vibrato regardless of dynamic while for example in CSS the intensity of the vibrato increases when you go up. I've tried compensating for this by manually controlling the vibrato but that did not work as that's just adding the same amount of vibrato that was in there already, you can't control the intensity of it.


----------



## muziksculp

*Synchron Strings ALL STRINGS Preset Walkthrough video* has been posted at VSL Synchron Strings I page.

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Series/Synchron_Strings_I#!Videos


----------



## wbacer

C-Wave said:


> It totals exactly 205 GB for the standard version (I.e. all articulations but no surround mikes) on my SSD, all sections downloaded.


I'm not sure if you're on a Mac or PC but this is what my Mac shows. - 219.82 GB


----------



## C-Wave

Piotrek K. said:


> Haha, I guess you polished it too much xD
> 
> But jokes aside, in my opinion VSL did few mistakes during this whole Early Bird thing including obvious delay.
> 
> They've risked with releasing unfinished product (fans and early adopters are more forgiving, right?). Second, they put those samples into player that is not meant for them. True, player won't change sound signature - either you like it or you don't, but player can make a lot of different things with samples themselves - tweaking, handling, playing. Legato is for me one of things that player can improve.
> 
> Also we are still waiting for this promise to come to life:
> 
> 
> So to people who are laughing out of current demos - enjoy the laughs, keep your money in wallets, and wait for full libraries + Synchron player. After that two thing are possible:  or  .


Agreed.


----------



## C-Wave

wbacer said:


> I'm not sure if you're on a Mac or PC but this is what my Mac shows. - 219.82 GB


Sorry forgot to mention, Windows 10 fall update, on Samsung 960 EVO.. WOW 15 Gb difference is a lot!
Edit: Added attachment.


----------



## C-Wave

holywilly said:


> Maybe synchron strings II will included more articulation is including portamento, harmonics and more....who knows, but fingers cross!!


Just speculating, this time it won’t be just SS II ( the above articulations and more) , and then SS III for sordinos. Hence the uncharacteristic intro price.


----------



## jamwerks

And keep in mind that we only have 2 out of the 5 legato instruments, so it may be closer to 300gb when all is said and done.


----------



## Vik

Paul T McGraw said:


> Perhaps you are right. I cannot think of a single time from the classical literature, even up to the early twentieth century that a portamento is written in the music. But I am old, perhaps my memory is faulty. Certainly, the avant-garde and film composers use portamento.


Maybe, from a 'puristic' Euro-oriented point of view, there "shouldn't" be any portamento. But string instruments are widely used across several continents, and even here in Europe, portamento is commonly heard in the best orchestra and with the most established composers. Plus - portamento is IMO an... "expression", just like vibrato. Often overdone, especially in string libraries, but nevertheless - a tool we can use to colour the music. 
So I vote yes to portamento.


----------



## ctsai89

Vik said:


> Maybe, from a 'puristic' Euro-oriented point of view, there "shouldn't" be any portamento. But string instruments are widely used across several continents, and even here in Europe, portamento is commonly heard in the best orchestra and with the most established composers. Plus - portamento is IMO an... "expression", just like vibrato. Often overdone, especially in string libraries, but nevertheless - a tool we can use to colour the music.
> So I vote yes to portamento.



exactly! portamento is also a lot of times inevitable on certain passages (if all players in a section were using the same bowing and fingerings which they should) where no "portamento" is even needed to be written in on the score. And shifting occurs far to often which makes short-portamento-like sounds. 

thanks @Vik


----------



## ptram

C-Wave said:


> Just speculating, this time it won’t be just SS II ( the above articulations and more) , and then SS III for sordinos.


Or, Extended for the advanced articulations, and II for sordini.


----------



## FabioA

Hi everybody,

I promised myself I would have tried the new Synchron shorts with this cue once they were released.
Personally, those short patches are already my favorite among all the libraries I have. Here, the plus of an high number of dynamic layers is pretty clear. I had to work a bit with the mouse to get the most out of it; when the dynamic is well programmed you can really hear the up-down bowings. Also, those sample are wet but still so clear and polished (as previous dry VSL libraries).

So, here's just super-short articulation for every section, while basses play also normal shorts here and there.

You listen first to the MIX patch (that if I'm not wrong is the Decca Tree stereo plus Mono), then the MID (Front of the Ensemble). If you like, I can render it also with the close mic (leader of the ensemble).

*edit* i forgot to add... I used a bit of detuning with the humanize function of VI Pro 2.


----------



## ptram

Paul T McGraw said:


> I cannot think of a single time from the classical literature, even up to the early twentieth century that a portamento is written in the music.


Mahler made wide use of it. But, then, he was at a cross between classical and avant-garde.


----------



## Eptesicus

The shorts are indeed amazing. Ive only had a 20 min play as I then had to go and visit family for Xmas but I LOVED the shorts. The harsh \ highest velocity layer is awesome.


----------



## Casiquire

Paul T McGraw said:


> Perhaps you are right. I cannot think of a single time from the classical literature, even up to the early twentieth century that a portamento is written in the music. But I am old, perhaps my memory is faulty. Certainly, the avant-garde and film composers use portamento.



It hasn't been commonly written into ensemble music as its own specific marking, though it has shown up in vocal music for hundreds of years using the standard slur mark. Whether conductors wanted to hear it live is another matter though, and a good composer doesn't need to write it in specifically, there are certain slurs that are bound to have a glide between them.


----------



## C-Wave

ptram said:


> Or, Extended for the advanced articulations, and II for sordini.


They already call the full library with surround mics “Extended”. Same as Synchron Percussion. This is the new way of naming libraries in the Synchron line.


----------



## maestro2be

Sovereign said:


> Please, no Jurassic Park.  How about we try this instead.
> 
> A couple of days ago I did a mockup of a short piece from Desplat. I spent hours yesterday trying to do the same mockup with Synchron. It gave me such a headache that I stopped, and deleted it out of frustration (the mockup, not Synchron). Perhaps someone else has the courage to try. With CSS it was relatively unpainful. Not too much CC editing needed, there is also some EQ on CSS. Score included, and my CSS rendition. (it's pretty close to the score I think, left only a couple of things out). Have at it.
> 
> The original is here:
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-css-test-mp3.10930/][/AUDIOPLUS]




That's a really nice quick piece. The first thing I can hear at least to my ears are small sections, basically the size of CSS and 8Dio Century Strings. But my hunch is you're just after the attempt of getting a lyrical performance of that style accomplished with Synchron. It will sound like bigger sections in my opinion without layering say dimension strings on top of it. But again, perhaps you are already aware of that and ok with it, you just want to hear that style of performance done in a Synchron Strings version.

I am also a little concerned about the fact that while I again haven't had any time to play with the legato portion of the library yet, I haven't noticed or seen any "Vibrato" that is that rich and "smeared" yet. There is a magical evolution of sound that happens once all the musicians begin "thinking emotion and expression" and the bow meets the strings. I am feeling a little more as if the sound I hear is what you would hear in a teacher/student lesson where she is slapping your hands for going out of tune or being off beat by 1ms. Once you do that, you begin to lose the true expressive nature of the sound dynamics. Many people use the word sterile when they mention VSL and I can hear that perfection/sterile sound and at times it makes it appear to be more "thin" than one would assume it would be. Yet at times, that creates an advantage stylistically. Just not for dynamic emotional and expressive legato styles in my opinion.

The extreme benefit of VSL has always and appears to still be that it's an instrument that needs to be mastered and isn't per say, something you can just hit the play button and get that immediate gratification on all things equal. I will say that the hour I had yesterday I spent with "shorts" and I was blown away how awesome they were. I also didn't feel they needed much work. But with legato, I don't ever find that to be the case with any library. I am either disappointed that a library that seems to have beautiful legato, is fat, sloppy and slow if I don't stay exactly within it's ability and programming/scripted optimal speeds. At that point, it becomes about mastering the library and tweaking the performance or living with the fact of the sub par results and realizing it is what it is and I should use another library that has a better way of handling that phrasing. Other libraries like LASS have an amazing legato, but I just can't get over the tone/harshness no matter what I do. It's not for me.

I am a VSL fanboy through and through and own basically everything they make, but I am not going to act blind to what I hear at this point. I think it's going to take more finesse of the player to provide the results people seek. It may even take riding some faders against the zillion available tweakable features within the player. I am great hopes for the new player they are announcing but I can pretty much guarantee, that people like me will be needing/wanting the ability to have ultimate control since the player will only interpret the passage how "VSL thinks I should do it". That doesn't always fit my bill. Thanks for the beautiful instruments, but I need the ability to make it sound how I say, not you. This is the power of VSL and their might VI Pro in my opinion.

Lastly, in all fairness, maybe some of you are but I personally am not "overwhelmed with excitement and joy" over any library that I pull out, load only violins 1 (having NO experience at all on how to use it) and expect it to actually sound anything like a true performance recording of a world class orchestra. It's just silly. Load up your best piece ever, and mute the entire project except your bass drum, or your flute and honestly say that it has any similar level of impact on you as the whole track did? The music and performance is a sum of the whole. Sitting there blasting Violins 1 by themselves will only give you ear fatigue, disappointment and false representations of what you could do with the final products combined.

Oh yea, that's just my opinion .


----------



## ptram

C-Wave said:


> They already call the full library with surround mics “Extended”.



That's true. But there is still the "Plus" word available!


----------



## C-Wave

maestro2be said:


> That's a really nice quick piece. The first thing I can hear at least to my ears are small sections, basically the size of CSS and 8Dio Century Strings. But my hunch is you're just after the attempt of getting a lyrical performance of that style accomplished with Synchron. It will sound like bigger sections in my opinion without layering say dimension strings on top of it. But again, perhaps you are already aware of that and ok with it, you just want to hear that style of performance done in a Synchron Strings version.
> 
> I am also a little concerned about the fact that while I again haven't had any time to play with the legato portion of the library yet, I haven't noticed or seen any "Vibrato" that is that rich and "smeared" yet. There is a magical evolution of sound that happens once all the musicians begin "thinking emotion and expression" and the bow meets the strings. I am feeling a little more as if the sound I hear is what you would hear in a teacher/student lesson where she is slapping your hands for going out of tune or being off beat by 1ms. Once you do that, you begin to lose the true expressive nature of the sound dynamics. Many people use the word sterile when they mention VSL and I can hear that perfection/sterile sound and at times it makes it appear to be more "thin" than one would assume it would be. Yet at times, that creates an advantage stylistically. Just not for dynamic emotional and expressive legato styles in my opinion.
> 
> The extreme benefit of VSL has always and appears to still be that it's an instrument that needs to be mastered and isn't per say, something you can just hit the play button and get that immediate gratification on all things equal. I will say that the hour I had yesterday I spent with "shorts" and I was blown away how awesome they were. I also didn't feel they needed much work. But with legato, I don't ever find that to be the case with any library. I am either disappointed that a library that seems to have beautiful legato, is fat, sloppy and slow if I don't stay exactly within it's ability and programming/scripted optimal speeds. At that point, it becomes about mastering the library and tweaking the performance or living with the fact of the sub par results and realizing it is what it is and I should use another library that has a better way of handling that phrasing. Other libraries like LASS have an amazing legato, but I just can't get over the tone/harshness no matter what I do. It's not for me.
> 
> I am a VSL fanboy through and through and own basically everything they make, but I am not going to act blind to what I hear at this point. I think it's going to take more finesse of the player to provide the results people seek. It may even take riding some faders against the zillion available tweakable features within the player. I am great hopes for the new player they are announcing but I can pretty much guarantee, that people like me will be needing/wanting the ability to have ultimate control since the player will only interpret the passage how "VSL thinks I should do it". That doesn't always fit my bill. Thanks for the beautiful instruments, but I need the ability to make it sound how I say, not you. This is the power of VSL and their might VI Pro in my opinion.
> 
> Lastly, in all fairness, maybe some of you are but I personally am not "overwhelmed with excitement and joy" over any library that I pull out, load only violins 1 (having NO experience at all on how to use it) and expect it to actually sound anything like a true performance recording of a world class orchestra. It's just silly. Load up your best piece ever, and mute the entire project except your bass drum, or your flute and honestly say that it has any similar level of impact on you as the whole track did? The music and performance is a sum of the whole. Sitting there blasting Violins 1 by themselves will only give you ear fatigue, disappointment and false representations of what you could do with the final products combined.
> 
> Oh yea, that's just my opinion .


Very good analysis, thank you for that.


----------



## Eptesicus

maestro2be said:


> .
> 
> Lastly, in all fairness, maybe some of you are but I personally am not "overwhelmed with excitement and joy" over any library that I pull out, load only violins 1 (having NO experience at all on how to use it) and expect it to actually sound anything like a true performance recording of a world class orchestra. It's just silly. Load up your best piece ever, and mute the entire project except your bass drum, or your flute and honestly say that it has any similar level of impact on you as the whole track did? The music and performance is a sum of the whole. Sitting there blasting Violins 1 by themselves will only give you ear fatigue, disappointment and false representations of what you could do with the final products combined.



This, absolutely. 

Quite telling that no one has posted a better example of that Jurassic Park theme yet..


----------



## Saxer

Sovereign said:


> Please, no Jurassic Park.  How about we try this instead.
> 
> A couple of days ago I did a mockup of a short piece from Desplat. I spent hours yesterday trying to do the same mockup with Synchron. It gave me such a headache that I stopped, and deleted it out of frustration (the mockup, not Synchron). Perhaps someone else has the courage to try. With CSS it was relatively unpainful. Not too much CC editing needed, there is also some EQ on CSS. Score included, and my CSS rendition. (it's pretty close to the score I think, left only a couple of things out). Have at it.
> 
> The original is here:
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-css-test-mp3.10930/][/AUDIOPLUS]




Thanks for posting the score!

Here is an example with Synchron Strings.

Rise Of The Guardians Soundtrack Prelude - Syncron Strings.mp3

The original sounds different because it is probably played with sordinos. And it's bit hard to do the polyphonic stuff without legatos in 2nd violins and violas so I replaced the moving parts of them with copies of violin 1. Same for the divisi parts. The VI Pro player has polyphonic legato but for voice separation it's better to have individual CC curves.

I made very simple presets from scratch, just one cells and two patches per instrument, crossfaded by CC21 (fader SlotX) and dynamic by CC1 (fader VelX). Legato soft vib for lower and Legato slur lyrical vib for higher intensity. Mics are Main L+R out of the box.






[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/rise-of-the-guardians-soundtrack-prelude-syncron-strings-mp3.10934/][/AUDIOPLUS]

By the way... Merry Christmas 

[AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/rise-of-the-guardians-soundtrack-prelude-syncron-strings-mp3.10934/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Vik

Thanks, Saxer. Based on how the slow fade out if the last notes sound, I’m pretty sure this lib will work really well for polyphonic stuff in the lowest end of dynamic range.


----------



## erica-grace

Saxer said:


> Here is an example with Synchron Strings.
> 
> Rise Of The Guardians Soundtrack Prelude - Syncron Strings.mp3



That does not sound very good. Maybe because there are no legatos yet?


----------



## Casiquire

This thread is so bizarre. I can't remember the last time we've put so much pressure on anonymous library owners to prove a library's worth before it's even released. Deep breaths everyone! Deep breaths!


----------



## germancomponist

Pause please! I have in my luggage: red wine, beer, brandy, champagne, chocolate and so on. Please reach out!


----------



## Sovereign

Saxer said:


> Thanks for posting the score!
> 
> Here is an example with Synchron Strings.
> 
> Rise Of The Guardians Soundtrack Prelude - Syncron Strings.mp3
> 
> By the way... Merry Christmas


Cool, keep the template and as soon as VSL releases the legatos update and improve it. It's a good little piece to work on. Merry X-mas to you all.


----------



## NoamL

That Desplat comparison is *definitely* taking place on CSS's home turf. Who would use any other library for that piece? 

May I suggest this piece? Tarantella by Prokofiev from Op. 65. We can mock up the melody with Violin 1.

*Download the MIDI here.*

*Let's imagine slurs for most of the triplets, and hooked bowing for the ones with rests in between.* In all other respects, this is fairly idiomatic to adapt to strings:



The reasons for selecting this piece as a test should be clear after hearing CSS struggle with it:



CSS does not excel at these two examples because the only option is Marcato Legato. It is still not fast enough for the first theme and some notes are getting lost IMO. Whereas for the second theme it sounds a bit too marked and not lyrical.

Here is CSS layered with Adventure Strings.




That is how I would approach a line like this in a real mockup... There's still lots of things to clean up if I wanted to make this actually presentable (like the inappropriately accented notes in the middle of slurs), but let this serve as a baseline.

Let's see how Synchron can do?


----------



## maestro2be

NoamL said:


> That Desplat comparison is *definitely* taking place on CSS's home turf. Who would use any other library for that piece?
> 
> May I suggest this piece? Tarantella by Prokofiev from Op. 65. We can mock up the melody with Violin 1.
> 
> *Download the MIDI here.*
> 
> *Let's imagine slurs for most of the triplets, and hooked bowing for the ones with rests in between.* In all other respects, this is fairly idiomatic to adapt to strings:
> 
> 
> 
> The reasons for selecting this piece as a test should be clear after hearing CSS struggle with it:
> 
> 
> 
> CSS does not excel at these two examples because the only option is Marcato Legato. It is still not fast enough for the first theme and some notes are getting lost IMO. Whereas for the second theme it sounds a bit too marked and not lyrical.
> 
> Here is CSS layered with Adventure Strings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is how I would approach a line like this in a real mockup... There's still lots of things to clean up if I wanted to make this actually presentable (like the inappropriately accented notes in the middle of slurs), but let this serve as a baseline.
> 
> Let's see how Synchron can do?




I used your midi file and applied all microphones. This is the complete surround sound out of the box using the provided template that VSL gives us. Even with that enormous amount of room sound It easily plays that fast without stressing at all.

I input no CC controls and no Velocity Crossfade. Just corrected a few notes velocity as they were so high that it would punch right through my monitors . These shorts can slam!



Hope that helps!


----------



## Casiquire

maestro2be said:


> I used your midi file and applied all microphones. This is the complete surround sound out of the box using the provided template that VSL gives us. Even with that enormous amount of room sound It easily plays that fast without stressing at all.
> 
> I input no CC controls and no Velocity Crossfade. Just corrected a few notes velocity as they were so high that it would punch right through my monitors . These shorts can slam!
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that helps!




The file isn't loading here


----------



## C-Wave

Casiquire said:


> The file isn't loading here


Same.


----------



## NoamL

It's here but he/she used the spiccato articulation not fast legato.


----------



## NoamL

About the Duel Of The Fates comparison - it certainly compares well to Mural. But it's not too hard to create dry shorts....


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

The Rise of the Guardian piece tone-wise can't even work with Synchron Strings without EQ treatment. It's tone by itself is too raw. Without attacking the 1.5k, 2.3k, 3.7k, 4.5-5k ranges, there's no way how it could sound any right. CSS has that rounded-off, fudgy tone out of the box. It's why they call them "Cinematic" I guess (and then in the CSS thread you have people complaining how the lib is too dark ...)


----------



## novaburst

Saxer said:


> Thanks for posting the score!
> 
> Here is an example with Synchron Strings.
> 
> Rise Of The Guardians Soundtrack Prelude - Syncron Strings.mp3
> 
> The original sounds different because it is probably played with sordinos. And it's bit hard to do the polyphonic stuff without legatos in 2nd violins and violas so I replaced the moving parts of them with copies of violin 1. Same for the divisi parts. The VI Pro player has polyphonic legato but for voice separation it's better to have individual CC curves.
> 
> I made very simple presets from scratch, just one cells and two patches per instrument, crossfaded by CC21 (fader SlotX) and dynamic by CC1 (fader VelX). Legato soft vib for lower and Legato slur lyrical vib for higher intensity. Mics are Main L+R out of the box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/rise-of-the-guardians-soundtrack-prelude-syncron-strings-mp3.10934/][/AUDIOPLUS]
> 
> By the way... Merry Christmas
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/rise-of-the-guardians-soundtrack-prelude-syncron-strings-mp3.10934/][/AUDIOPLUS]



So much definition on this, is this the full version


----------



## muk

After having played with the library for a while here are some first observations: the Synchron Stage is a really nice hall. Beautiful and versatile sound, unobtrusive and just right. The provided VE Pro-Mixing-Template is a great starting point. I haven't dug too deep into the different mic positions yet, but they seem to be well chosen and easy to work with. Here is a little folly to demonstrate the room sound (Synchron Strings out of the box, no effects):

https://app.box.com/s/8me2xsvweguw6dpw5s2iv265fiysvji3

Some time ago I made a mockup of this piece with Dimension Strings. Here it is for comparison:

https://app.box.com/s/b7ab7tpwyw2cgr42sfiw0jzvos3uwwwe

I went with a more direct, closer sound there. But now in comparison I like the Synchron Stage version a lot better.

The legatos and shorts work differently than on Dimension Strings. It takes a bit of getting used to. I can't give a verdict on these just yet, but so far I like what I hear and think that both are fine. The omission of the portamento is a bit sad. Slurred legato is a nice addition, but it is not the same as portamento. Would be nice to have both.
Without the legatos on three of the sections it is difficult to make a nice comprehensive demo of everything playing together. Cheating your way through with sustains works so-so. I rather just wait for the legatos to be released.

Here is my attempt at the Jurassic Park melody. First violins only, out of the box, just one single pass:

https://app.box.com/s/o3zciglrexgwvhguzcd6oix3s0k843w0

Compared to how I have set up my Dimension Strings template the dynamic range of Synchron Strings is a bit narrower, making them seem to be less responsive to cc1 changes. Maybe I'll increase the DynR on Synchron Strings a bit (there is a slider for that in Vi Pro, so really simple to do). On the other hand it's nice to have everything recorded at their natural dynamics, so tampering with it is a bit of a tradeoff. Needs more experimenting before I decide.
Anyway, that's what jumped out at me after the first time with the library. Overall I am happy with the library so far.

Have a merry Christmas everyone.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

The Synchron version of the pizzicato piece sounds really, really good, @muk. I remember hearing the DS version some time ago and thinking it sounded great. But now, hearing the direct comparison ... the whole track just opens up and breathes with SS. It also shows how difficult it is to simulate a sense of spatialisation with reverbs, panning, placement tools etc. The SS version is just a whole different thing.


----------



## holywilly

Paul from VSL just post something informative: 

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t47814p20-Synchron-Strings-I?=#post268277


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

holywilly said:


> Paul from VSL just post something informative:
> 
> https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t47814p20-Synchron-Strings-I?=#post268277



February is tough. But I've kind of given up attempting a "serious" setup of this library for my template right now ... it's very evident why this thing needed a new sample player. VI Pro really isn't ready for it.


----------



## novaburst

There is a double bass update that should be in your download, hotfix


----------



## rottoy

muk said:


> After having played with the library for a while here are some first observations: the Synchron Stage is a really nice hall. Beautiful and versatile sound, unobtrusive and just right. The provided VE Pro-Mixing-Template is a great starting point. I haven't dug too deep into the different mic positions yet, but they seem to be well chosen and easy to work with. Here is a little folly to demonstrate the room sound (Synchron Strings out of the box, no effects):
> 
> https://app.box.com/s/8me2xsvweguw6dpw5s2iv265fiysvji3
> 
> Some time ago I made a mockup of this piece with Dimension Strings. Here it is for comparison:
> 
> https://app.box.com/s/b7ab7tpwyw2cgr42sfiw0jzvos3uwwwe
> 
> I went with a more direct, closer sound there. But now in comparison I like the Synchron Stage version a lot better.
> 
> The legatos and shorts work differently than on Dimension Strings. It takes a bit of getting used to. I can't give a verdict on these just yet, but so far I like what I hear and think that both are fine. The omission of the portamento is a bit sad. Slurred legato is a nice addition, but it is not the same as portamento. Would be nice to have both.
> Without the legatos on three of the sections it is difficult to make a nice comprehensive demo of everything playing together. Cheating your way through with sustains works so-so. I rather just wait for the legatos to be released.
> 
> Here is my attempt at the Jurassic Park melody. First violins only, out of the box, just one single pass:
> 
> https://app.box.com/s/o3zciglrexgwvhguzcd6oix3s0k843w0
> 
> Compared to how I have set up my Dimension Strings template the dynamic range of Synchron Strings is a bit narrower, making them seem to be less responsive to cc1 changes. Maybe I'll increase the DynR on Synchron Strings a bit (there is a slider for that in Vi Pro, so really simple to do). On the other hand it's nice to have everything recorded at their natural dynamics, so tampering with it is a bit of a tradeoff. Needs more experimenting before I decide.
> Anyway, that's what jumped out at me after the first time with the library. Overall I am happy with the library so far.
> 
> Have a merry Christmas everyone.


I have to say, the Synchron Strings pizzicato sounds fab.


----------



## Casiquire

ka00 said:


> If you can stand listening to my Synchron test composition more than once, I've got the same composition done using Berlin Strings and another version using Spitfire Symphonic Strings.
> 
> All notes and midi data are the same between libraries. Just some relative volume adjustments between tracks.
> 
> The Berlin Strings version also has the same 35% wet ValhallaRoom reverb as the Synchron Strings version. However, Spitfire has only 18% wet ValhallaRoom reverb added, and the mic mix is the standard (between Close and Far).




Interesting, thanks! In this setting Spitfire is probably the most pleasing.


----------



## C-Wave

“Slurred legato is a nice addition, but it is not the same as portamento. Would be nice to have both.”
Amen to that.


----------



## Guy Bacos

The smaller intervals are closer to slurs while the leaps are closer to portamento. A sort of compromise I guess.


----------



## C-Wave

novaburst said:


> There is a double bass update that should be in your download, hotfix


How do you install it ? Thanks.


----------



## muk

C-Wave said:


> How do you install it ? Thanks.



Download, unzip, drag the unzipped file onto the Directory Manager.


----------



## wcreed51

You can just drag the zip in the Directory Manager.


----------



## FabioA

NoamL said:


> About the Duel Of The Fates comparison - it certainly compares well to Mural. But it's not too hard to create dry shorts....



That sounds very cool. And of course, shorts articulations are generally the easiest part of sampling. But the point of that cue is that it should be in p or even pp. I think that these extra dynamic of synchron are great for that.


----------



## novaburst

I was just going over an overview on one of the Synchron Strings vids and at the ending there is some statements The words *RAW*, *CLEAR*,

I think this is what a lot of users refer to as clinical, what is interesting is VSL boast of this type or unfamiliar tone.

Its a tone where you can place much of your own colour if you like and its not limited and confined to a certain sound that you cant get rid of or baked in tone that often gets boring or tiresome.

This is what sets VSL apart from that traditional sound and brings a whole new fresh approach.


----------



## Casiquire

novaburst said:


> I was just going over an overview on one of the Synchron Strings vids and at the ending there is some statements The words *RAW*, *CLEAR*,
> 
> I think this is what a lot of users refer to as clinical, what is interesting is VSL boast of this type or unfamiliar tone.
> 
> Its a tone where you can place much of your own colour if you like and its not limited and confined to a certain sound that you cant get rid of or baked in tone that often gets boring or tiresome.
> 
> This is what sets VSL apart from that traditional sound and brings a whole new fresh approach.



I do sort of agree, the sound is often sterile but you can impress your own expression into it. It just takes more work.


----------



## wbacer

Just finished downloading the Multi's.
Stereo and Multi's together are quite large - 431.45 GB


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> I was just going over an overview on one of the Synchron Strings vids and at the ending there is some statements The words *RAW*, *CLEAR*,
> 
> I think this is what a lot of users refer to as clinical, what is interesting is VSL boast of this type or unfamiliar tone.
> 
> Its a tone where you can place much of your own colour if you like and its not limited and confined to a certain sound that you cant get rid of or baked in tone that often gets boring or tiresome.



I think that's always been the VSL philosophy. 

The sound of the library is in fact very raw. And the name of this new library is actually 100% descriptive. Here are some strings. They're recorded in this hall. See what you can do with them. It doesn't sound "like" anything. Other than strings in the Synchron hall.

That's why I find "out of the box" experiments and comparisons with this library not very interesting. It's just a mistaken approach and doesn't offer a lot of educated insight. With VSL, the whole perspective from which the products are designed is that you're wearing an engineer's hat. It's kind of given that you're gonna use EQs, mix and manipulate according to the sonic goals and do a complete production. Synchron underlines that even more.

Learning to utilize the software has always also been the other half of the whole idea - with VSL, it's never just the samples and patches alone, it's always how it integrates into the software. It's very different from just loading patches into Kontakt, that in these cases simply acts as a host.

It's natural that VSL has always had this marmite effect on people. It's just a very specialized mentality and approach and definitely not for everybody. It's pretty intransparent looking from the outside in and it's no wonder that it tends to bewilder people who approach these products with different expectations. With VSL you gotta know what you're buying into and it's not very obvious. That's probably one of the main reasons why you see this massive divide in opinions, more extreme than with any other company.


----------



## Saxer

I think I'll wait until the Synchron Player is available for further experiments (around NAMM time). I remember working with the first few chapters of Sable and Mural. During all the updates and additional 'brushes' stretched over years I had to rebuild my templates again and again and can't load older songs now without big reconfiguration. Waste of time. I'm still curious what Synchron Strings will offer when completed. But until then there are enough other string samples keeping me busy.


----------



## artomatic

Saxer said:


> I think I'll wait until the Synchron Player is available for further experiments (around NAMM time). I remember working with the first few chapters of Sable and Mural. During all the updates and additional 'brushes' stretched over years I had to rebuild my templates again and again and can't load older songs now without big reconfiguration. Waste of time. I'm still curious what Synchron Strings will offer when completed. But until then there are enough other string samples keeping me busy.



What I’ve heard from the strings you’ve already programmed and arranged, you don’t need another library. Much respect, @Saxer !


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Saxer said:


> I think I'll wait until the Synchron Player is available for further experiments (around NAMM time). I remember working with the first few chapters of Sable and Mural. During all the updates and additional 'brushes' stretched over years I had to rebuild my templates again and again and can't load older songs now without big reconfiguration. Waste of time. I'm still curious what Synchron Strings will offer when completed. But until then there are enough other string samples keeping me busy.



Same here. Setting this up in a proper way and working with it in VI Pro is incredibly tedious and just doesn't really work. I now understand why this library needed an own player.


----------



## Eptesicus

Yeh I will wait for the synchron player and full legato in the other sections before trying anything serious. The way the samples are laid out makes it clear it's built for a different player.


----------



## Saxer

I don't think they really *need* a special player but as we knew they will get one it would be twice the work to set them up now.


----------



## meradium

Saxer, may I ask what’s your personal resume so far?

Judging from the demos I get the impression that right now this library can deliver when you need vibrant fast not passages due to that fact that it has so many velocity layers and RRs.

You demonstrated that legatos can also deliver, but need customization and definitely the Pro player.

The short note thing is tempting... however, I wonder how well you can blend these samples with e.g. the Spitfire strings.

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## Saxer

meradium said:


> Saxer, may I ask what’s your personal resume so far?


To be honest: I'm not sure now. The samples itself are there (for the already finished instruments) and they really sound good. Everything else is playability. VSL doesn't play on its own like a lot of other libraries do with 'emotional' samples. No baked in envelopes. It's a concept I really like because it's close to playing an instrument. But I have to adapt it to my workflow like I did with all other VSL libraries (and others too). My goal is always to have as less key switches as possible and playable with breath controller. Additionals like vibrato control, legato style, and humanisation are welcome too. But it takes time to configure. After doing that and some praxis time I can form an opinion about everything else.


----------



## eli0s

Sorry for bringing back a past argument, but since it's left on the air and has been requested a few times already, here is the famous Jurassic Park theme with the CSS family: CSS 1rst Violins + a tad of CSSS 2nd Violin for... definition 

No CCs whatsoever, except for CC64 for legato and re-bowing repeated notes. The CC1 is around 64 (mp to f I guess).
This is as terrible as it can get I think, without any dynamic expression.


----------



## Eptesicus

eli0s said:


> Sorry for bringing back a past argument, but since it's left on the air and has been requested a few times already, here is the famous Jurassic Park theme with the CSS family: CSS 1rst Violins + a tad of CSSS 2nd Violin for... definition
> 
> No CCs whatsoever, except for CC64 for legato and re-bowing repeated notes. The CC1 is around 64 (mp to f I guess).
> This is as terrible as it can get I think, without any dynamic expression.




Why add 2nd violin for "definition"? You just ruined the entire experiment


----------



## eli0s

Eptesicus said:


> Why add 2nd violin for "definition"? You just ruined the entire experiment


I'm sorry, he just couldn't stop insisting to be a part in this!


----------



## CT

Casiquire said:


> I do sort of agree, the sound is often sterile but you can impress your own expression into it. It just takes more work.



I used to think this was a positive thing, but now I'm not sure. 

When you have a "blank slate" library, will any amount of work and skill yield something with real character? For my ears the answer seems to be no. 

I'm settling in to the idea that it is better to have numerous string options, each with its own genuine vibe and usefulness. Better to be limited to the single but organic, lively aesthetic of a library than to try sculpting various facsimiles out of a sterile one.


----------



## Rob Elliott

miket said:


> I used to think this was a positive thing, but now I'm not sure.
> 
> When you have a "blank slate" library, will any amount of work and skill yield something with real character? For my ears the answer seems to be no.
> 
> I'm settling in to the idea that it is better to have numerous string options, each with its own genuine vibe and usefulness. Better to be limited to the single but organic, lively aesthetic of a library than to try sculpting various facsimiles out of a sterile one.


This is a VERY true statement and an honest look at reality of samples. Hence why most of us have MANY string libraries. I sort of wish it was not a reality (I would have lower costs and the constant requirement of managing of so many libraries) - BUT if you are making a living at this and a fair share of your final stems delivered to clients are samples, it is what it is. The bottom line is VSL will find it's way to final mixes on many projects - as will a variety of other string libraries. Will it be my workhorse? I don't know, I really don't care given the above - only that it will have a 'unique' way to satisfy future clients/projects.


----------



## theiss1979

There's a bunch of new demos available on the VSL website, including some legato demos by Herb.


----------



## muk

The fast legato demo doesn't work too well to my ears, especially for the celli. The strings sound very nice in 'The Noble Ascension' though, reminds me of the sound of the Planet Blue II title music.


----------



## Eptesicus

From my brief play, the fast legato was excellent. When I'm home from visiting family after new year I will try and post some fast repetitive phrases with it.


----------



## Critz

muk said:


> The fast legato demo doesn't work too well to my ears, especially for the celli. The strings sound very nice in 'The Noble Ascension' though, reminds me of the sound of the Planet Blue II title music.


We have to admit cellos fast legato is quite bad in every instrument..
May I say these new demos are quite bad, musically speaking? Can't they compose anything better than that in Vienna? I don't think so.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> We have to admit cellos fast legato is quite bad in every instrument..
> May I say these new demos are quite bad, musically speaking? Can't they compose anything better than that in Vienna? I don't think so.




Violas also have pretty bad legatoes in a many cases. Most developers like to focus on Violin I the most because they know most "film composers" would be using it to write melodies on top of just ensemble chords playing.... But it's honestly not that bad in SSS.

I liked Guy Bacos demoes  but not so much the other ones.


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> Violas also have pretty bad legatoes in a many cases. Most developers like to focus on Violin I the most because they know most "film composers" would be using it to write melodies on top of just ensemble chords playing.... But it's honestly not that bad in SSS.
> 
> I liked Guy Bacos demoes  but not so much the other ones.


I'm listening to it right now with better speakers. The legato demos, except for soft-legato, sounds like midi tracks, streamed with a vsti library.
Listen to that violins note at 0:14 in the legato-slurred example. It start so unnatural; also, the re-bowing from 0:27.
And WTF is the legato regular example? Some kind of joke?
Did they really think this is good stuff?? Who's supposed to be interested in this library? Classic composers writing whitin Finale? They really have 500 gbs of ssd to waste for that stuff?
I tell you: I'm cleaning my ssd from this heavy and useless library, right now.I'm going to ask a refund (first time ever), I'll take some of the most usefull old VSL stuff instead.
And don't worry, that's my last post here.


----------



## eli0s

I can't help my self, but the SS sound out of the demos is giving me a very nostalgic vibe! It reminds me of this sound:

While I am very fond of this sound (I bought both m-se1 and m-oc1 modules back in the day, and they were not cheap!), it isn't anything ground breaking.
SS are clean, yes, to the point of sounding sterile and lifeless (I am talking about the longs and the legatos, shorts and pizzicato are great), and the note transition is so perfect that they sound scripted.

Perhaps the Synchron Player can add random detuning and some other imperfections to help them sit better as a human produced performance (SWAM instruments beg and vastly benefit from messing around with their sound by fiddling performance elements), what I hear now is a very unrealistic performance and some times I'm questioning my sanity by some of the positive responses so far! Not to mention the promotion from the VSL team, claiming they reinvented legato!

I'm not trying to insult anyone, this is just my immature response to a (now) huge thread around a product that I had high hopes for, but amazed me on how it (imo) failed to deliver.

I won't bash the library any more, I hope it will improve in time and that my initial disappointment will render obsolete.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> I'm listening to it right now with better speakers. The legato demos, except for soft-legato, sounds like midi tracks, streamed with a vsti library.
> Listen to that violins note at 0:14 in the legato-slurred example. It start so unnatural; also, the re-bowing from 0:27.
> And WTF is the legato regular example? Some kind of joke?
> Did they really think this is good stuff?? Who's supposed to be interested in this library? Classic composers writing whitin Finale? They really have 500 gbs of ssd to waste for that stuff?
> I tell you: I'm cleaning my ssd from this heavy and useless library, right now.I'm going to ask a refund (first time ever), I'll take some of the most usefull old VSL stuff instead.
> And don't worry, that's my last post here.



No worries I meant SSS as in spitfire symphonic strings. They sound good. Not synchron.

But Guy Bacos demoes had great content musically speaking. Much less ugly legato stuff than the other demoes as well.


----------



## ctsai89

@Critz if you've seen my posts in other threads, I'm known as the VSL hater for saying that it sounds like Sibelius 6 playbacks.... was hoping synchron would change my mind but.. I do think you should wait till february?

Several members have discreditted me by saying that my ears don't know what's "dry" and "wet" but all this time I thought it was the legato programming. Not the issue of having hall sound in the samples of not.

If synchron is going to sound like Sibelius 6 too then I wasn't wrong that it had nothing to do with whether it had the hall recorded in it or not. 

I don't hope that it does since you got the library $$$ and most likely won't get a refund for it


----------



## Critz

Old VSL stuff is like that. If you just write down notes and press play, it's like Sibelius playbacks. But if you set parameters as you like and you work with the velocity xfade, you can do better than other libraries in many cases.
Just to proof I'm not a VSL fanboy and also not a VSL hater, just objective:
I prefer VSL woodwinds over Berlin woodwinds most of the times; I go with Berlin when I just need a simple melody because the sound it's of course beautiful without efforts.
I also prefer VSL Brasses with MIR over Berlin Brass, generally. There's a consistency on VSL Brass unmatched by other libraries.
That's why I'm pretty sure Synchron Brass and Synchron Woodwinds will be great, if they won't take weird decisions as they did with Synchron Strings.
But I already figured out playing with these library for some days, most of the advantages of previous VSL libraries are gone. Now it's simply the heaviest and at the same time worst-sounding strings library (among the 100+ gbs libraries) out there.


----------



## jamwerks

Critz said:


> And don't worry, that's my last post here.


----------



## Eptesicus

Critz said:


> worst-sounding strings library out there.



That is some hyperbole right there.


----------



## Casiquire

miket said:


> I used to think this was a positive thing, but now I'm not sure.
> 
> When you have a "blank slate" library, will any amount of work and skill yield something with real character? For my ears the answer seems to be no.
> 
> I'm settling in to the idea that it is better to have numerous string options, each with its own genuine vibe and usefulness. Better to be limited to the single but organic, lively aesthetic of a library than to try sculpting various facsimiles out of a sterile one.



Some styles actually need to sound sterile, and it's harder to back character out of a library than to add it in. So overall you're right, a variety is best.


----------



## jamwerks

I'm quite amazed by how different these sound to something like Berlin Strings. They both come from medium-large scoring stages, both having wood floors. It must be that radically different microphones were used. But even then, the difference seems unexplainably huge. The eq balance seems very different.

And comparing side by side Berlin to SSS, they sound much more similar though coming from very different sounding spaces.


----------



## Sovereign

jamwerks said:


> I'm quite amazed by how different these sound to something like Berlin Strings. They both come from medium-large scoring stages, both having wood floors. It must be that radically different microphones were used. But even then, the difference seems unexplainably huge. The eq balance seems very different.
> 
> And comparing side by side Berlin to SSS, they sound much more similar though coming from very different sounding spaces.


I think the difference comes from a) the mixing engineer and b) the extreme clinical approach to playing. They seem to have gone into this with the same mindset as they did when they recorded in their silent stage, which imo is a totally wrong approach here. That way they've made sure *not* to 'capture' the sound of blue planet 2 or any of the other Hollywood recordings they've done in the synchron stage.


----------



## novaburst

miket said:


> I used to think this was a positive thing, but now I'm not sure.
> 
> When you have a "blank slate" library, will any amount of work and skill yield something with real character? For my ears the answer seems to be no.
> 
> I'm settling in to the idea that it is better to have numerous string options, each with its own genuine vibe and usefulness. Better to be limited to the single but organic, lively aesthetic of a library than to try sculpting various facsimiles out of a sterile one.



We have many approaches when it come to tone and sound, and I guess your preference is the preference of many and does save time I guess if you need to get a piece completed with in a time frame you may call it instant gratification if you like, who will turn their face up at that.

VSL Synchron String offers a lot of room for options if you want but still to me there is a very nice candy sound that comes out of the Synchron Stage.

never the less imagine taking your live string orchestra around the world to perform, one of the satisfactions are when they arrive at the new venue (hall) that the Strings will sound different in Australia than the Church hall in London UK

I am not saying The Synchron Strings are as extreme as that but changing the tone, sounds with some good reverbs can bring a different feel to your composition, I think this is a good thing.

Baked in sound, backed in character, baked in reverb, or eq just makes it difficult to change the feel and mood and often comes out worse than if it were left alone, hence the same old sound and tone, again people don't mind this, as long as you get that warm sound that satisfies all. 

Some like a little more control over tone and sound, once the sound or tone changes then you have a character change, and can bring on the mood to use in certain compositions that otherwise may not be best suited


----------



## CT

It isn't about saving time or instant gratification for me. I've simply never heard a single instance** of someone making music that truly has character with any library that supposedly offers more flexibility through an inherent neutrality, and my own feeble attempts certainly haven't succeeded either. 

**There is one notable exception to this, thanks to a very talented composer and user of VI's who I believe utilized VSL heavily on a 2006 video game score. VSL's finest hour if you ask me, with no other contenders visible within light-years.


----------



## Arbee

To my ears, VSL has now sadly just joined everyone else in the "wet-libraries-struggle-with-legato" contest. For having one main workhorse string library, my conclusion is that their previous dry+MIR approach is still the winning compromise overall. But time and the Synchron player may yet prove me wrong.....


----------



## C-Wave

Casiquire said:


> Some styles actually need to sound sterile, and it's harder to back character out of a library than to add it in. So overall you're right, a variety is best.


Is “Sterile” the opposite of “Lush”? Thought I’d ask before opening the dictionary.


----------



## muziksculp

Oh boy, I'm amazed that not a single demo so far showing Synchron Strings in action has impressed me, or even come close to my expectations, especially given the size of this library, and the time VSL has spent to produce it, although it is not yet a completed product, given they need to complete all the Legatos, and offer the VSL Synchron Player. 

I'm still very confident that things will change to the better, and I mean to the much better by Feb. 2018 for Synchron Strings. That's why I'm not bothering with installing any of its content until Feb. next year, when it might be totally polished and ready for action.

I'm still very optimistic about this library, meanwhile... much better sounding audio demos, and more video walkthroughs by VSL would be very helpful.

Cheers, Happy Holidays and New Year !
Muziksculp


----------



## novaburst

miket said:


> It isn't about saving time or instant gratification for me. I've simply never heard a single instance** of someone making music that truly has character with any library that supposedly offers more flexibility through an inherent neutrality,



You haven't



miket said:


> **There is one notable exception to this, thanks to a very talented composer and user of VI's who I believe utilized VSL heavily on a 2006 video game score.



You have, what will it be.... you have or you haven't , because if you have heard it means it is being done,

Also what you have heard in your time is inconclusive, as you would need to search all the video games, that composers have written, and every single mockup that has ever been written, then you would need to find out what ones used VSL String librarys, a big task you think.


QUOTE="miket, post: 4170222, member: 12916"]and my own feeble attempts certainly haven't succeeded either.[/QUOTE]

Maybe put some more effort into it.



C-Wave said:


> Is “Sterile” the opposite of “Lush”? Thought I’d ask before opening the dictionary.



I believe this means clean, or to remove any foreign objects.


----------



## novaburst

Arbee said:


> To my ears, VSL has now sadly just joined everyone else in the "wet-libraries-struggle-with-legato



Of a truth I will say I am not sure what type of legatos you all are looking for or what standard, and will say apart from some artefacts, this Synchron String library is sublime,

There are quite a few legatos you can use very fast and slow at the same time its a matter of pick your target, I have heard some demos that some one posted and I am very surprised it sounded so poorly,

I feel if he had spent a little more time with the player and what he could actually do he would not have posted such a poor example.

The key is know your player, and it is not hard work, some legatos are meant for certain lines, but there are some that can rip the roof off if you only spend time with your library,

after continues use with this library its easy to see where VSL are going and I am glad, there are one or two nags that need to be addressed like some wired sounding patches. but what we have is enough to put a big grin on your face.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> Oh boy, I'm amazed that not a single demo so far showing Synchron Strings in action has impressed me



Not every one is easy to please, especially when it comes to VSL, now if this library was ...............well the first note and the roof would come off, perhaps your standards are hard to reach.

on the other hand I have been impressed @Christof piece Enter the dream I saw what I was looking for in this library, also the latest demo I am impressed, .


----------



## CT

novaburst said:


> You haven't
> 
> 
> 
> You have, what will it be.... you have or you haven't , because if you have heard it means it is being done,
> 
> Also what you have heard in your time is inconclusive, as you would need to search all the video games, that composers have written, and every single mockup that has ever been written, then you would need to find out what ones used VSL String librarys, a big task you think.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe put some more effort into it.



...yeah, ok. Thank you for reminding me why it's not worth getting involved in VSL discussions.


----------



## ka00

For what it's worth, I cleaned up the tracks I made comparing Synchron Strings to Spitfire Symphonic Strings and Berlin Strings.

I varied the legato types in the Synchron Strings version to improve realism.

I also tried to make each library sound it's best (to the best of my limited abilities) but didn't EQ or compress anything.

Note: The Berlin Strings version has First Chairs soloists layered onto the violin and celli legato tracks for a bit more detail and uses Lexicon reverb instead of ValhallaRoom.

#1 - Synchron Strings
#2 - Berlin Strings
#3 - Spitfire Symphonic Strings


Thanks


ka00 said:


> If you can stand listening to my Synchron test composition more than once, I've got the same composition done using Berlin Strings and another version using Spitfire Symphonic Strings.


----------



## novaburst

ka00 said:


> For what it's worth, I cleaned up the tracks I made comparing Synchron Strings to Spitfire Symphonic Strings and Berlin Strings.
> 
> I varied the legato types in the Synchron Strings version to improve realism.



Hi @ka00 nice work, I hope you did not think I was referring to you when I noted there was poor examples of the legato. I was referring to the jurrasic park them that was a very poor example using Synchron Strings legato.

your piece was nice I was wondering was you switching from legato to legato, it is a good way for variation but you can set your legato to a nice feel and use CC on you Xfade, and expression, on just one legato to give mood and feel, this saves you switching from legato to legato, but first find a legato that you like to use,


----------



## Casiquire

C-Wave said:


> Is “Sterile” the opposite of “Lush”? Thought I’d ask before opening the dictionary.



I would say no, they're referring to two different things. Lush to me is a reference to tone quality whereas sterile is a reference to the character of the performance, and that's purely my interpretation of the words, so opinions are bound to differ. But that's the context with which I use the word sterile. Everything's perfectly in tune, totally clean, with little expression. Lush to me involves a richness and warmth of sound which can also be performed in a sterile manner and still sound unrealistically clean.


----------



## ctsai89

Ok I listened to all the legato demos just now. They're not THAT bad but not very good lol


----------



## holywilly

I found out that using all legato type with lyric vibrato yields very smooth tradition, and the legato with regular vibrato sounds more edgy.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I can understand the reservations regarding the legato to a certain point.

The soft legato is actually quite nice. No problems with that. The standard legato on the other hand is odd. To my ears, it sounds like a bow change patch. To me it sounds like straight detache and works really well that way. Which is actually great to have, as it's something I've always sorely missed in many string libraries. Not sure if it was intended to do that though.

It gets weirder when it comes to fast legato. Very odd behavior. Super jumpy at times and it doesn't really create a "legato" sensation - someone said it rather fittingly, it sounds as if you were simply hammering long notes on the keyboard.

The slur patch is not "slurred" enough for my taste. Too fast and too firm. I'd simply stretch it within VI PRO, but for some reason, the function doesn't seem to work properly with SS patches. It takes minutes to process and I can't possibly be doing this for all used mic positions.

Generally the legato transitions appear too loud, too strict and too uniform.

Not sure if VSL would be willing to admit, but it appears to me that something went wrong with the scripting here. I suspect the pressure of having to churn out something after severely falling back on the schedule having something to do with it. Of course, I don't know how much of a role the Synchron Player would play here and if it's possibly the missing part of the puzzle.

TBH, I think they should take their time and revisit these patches, and not even touch the legati for the remaining sections before this is sorted out. The general tone of the library is great and the depth of space is brilliant. The short and pizz notes are fantastic, the built in repetitions work like a charm. Harmonies with sustain patches are vibrant and beautiful. The library has great potential and I think they should take advantage of this "early bird" feedback, and revise the legato patches with great attention.


----------



## sprout

Can anyone post repetition demos please? This is the main reason I'd be getting the Synchron library; ease of use in avoiding the awful repeating round robin pattern in most of the older stuff, including Dimension Strings. Perhaps I should dive into the manuals, videos and forum again to figure out how to avoid it, but I haven't yet. Any comments on the difference?

The repetition in the Guy Bacos Demo song The Hatchling sounds promising.


----------



## jamwerks

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I can understand the reservations regarding the legato to a certain point...


iinm, all three of the "slow, regular & fast" legati are indeed bow-change. It's the slurred legato which corresponds to others "fingered" articulation.


----------



## Sovereign

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Generally the legato transitions appear too loud, too strict and too uniform. Not sure if VSL would be willing to admit, but it appears to me that something went wrong with the scripting here.


Having edited custom legato libraries in the past, a huge problem to me seems to be that they cut up the transitions too close to the destination note. There's in my opinion pretty much nothing left of the transition from the starting note. They should have left more of it (say 50-100 ms) intact. It's now more like the classic legato patches in CSS, but even way more tightly edited than that. Great for realtime keyboard playability, not so much for retaining a "real" legato sound.



> TBH, I think they should take their time and revisit these patches, and not even touch the legati for the remaining sections before this is sorted out. The general tone of the library is great and the depth of space is brilliant. The short and pizz notes are fantastic, the built in repetitions work like a charm. Harmonies with sustain patches are vibrant and beautiful. The library has great potential and I think they should take advantage of this "early bird" feedback, and revise the legato patches with great attention.


We'll I hope they're reading all this.


----------



## Eptesicus

That could well be it.


----------



## ctsai89

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Series/Synchron_Strings_I#!Videos

Another demo by Guy Bacos: Winter Blues.

Very nice composition! Hermanesque! love it


----------



## muziksculp

Some of the newer demos are sounding better already, especially the legatos. 

I'm sure we will hear more improvements as we move forward in time.


----------



## ctsai89

muziksculp said:


> Some of the newer demos are sounding better already, especially the legatos.
> 
> I'm sure we will hear more improvements as we move forward in time.



I really do hope so! If so, I'm going to start saving


----------



## Eptesicus

That new winter blues demo sounds bloody lovely.


----------



## muk

Maybe some of you remember the thread about the strings in 'Book of Love'. 

https://vi-control.net/community/th...the-peter-gabriel-book-of-love-strings.61403/

I thought I'd give it a try with Synchron Strings. Not because they are close to that sound, but because it is a nice sequence to really hear the sound of a library. Here is the room mix preset:

https://app.box.com/s/83yfkhrne5fyy8bl9mcr6wyq37i3m3nq

That is about as good as I could make it in a reasonable amount of time and in the unfinished state of the library. I really like the sound of Synchron Strings here. You could probably get a little closer to the sound of the Peter Gabriel recording by making more use of the close mics.



ka00 said:


> Anyone with CSSS think it could layer well with SS?



Layered with CSSS:

https://app.box.com/s/gfsfd8d2lrddh2vaa3bwq8bj2v5qsk2w

It can work for certain things, but the vibrato of CSSS is a bit too excentric to glue well with SyS in my opinion.

Layered with Berlin Strings First Chairs:

https://app.box.com/s/nsau0eyto80c70d6rmdyv3zcc17acuot

Not a bad combo to add definition and bite. In this quick and dirty test they don't blend together as nicely as they probably could. The Berlin Strings FC sound more upfront and closer than SyS. I'll have to experiment more with SyS mics to glue them better.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Sovereign said:


> Having edited custom legato libraries in the past, a huge problem to me seems to be that they cut up the transitions too close to the destination note. There's in my opinion pretty much nothing left of the transition from the starting note.



It really does seem that way. The destination note just jumps at you, there's hardly any legato happening. The slur patch highlights this - you can hear the slur, but all of a sudden the note is there.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Nice comparison but still in LOVE with the CSS version (on this song) with some careful boost in the hi's. The sound you got on SS is also good on a ton of things - just not this one IMHO. Again - it is why we have more string libraries then we really want. There is really not one to rule them all.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The slur patch highlights this - you can hear the slur, but all of a sudden the note is there.



Hi @Jimmy Hellfire cc your attack, to at least half way, give your release a touch more, turn on Xfad V and use it.
Pull your attack down for bite lift it for smooth lines on your slurs, and all fast legatos adjust release to stop cut offs


----------



## Lotias

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It really does seem that way. The destination note just jumps at you, there's hardly any legato happening. The slur patch highlights this - you can hear the slur, but all of a sudden the note is there.


This tends to happen with a good amount of VSL's "legato-sus" patches, which combine sustain samples and legato samples without any way for the user to adjust the delay for the sustain part plays. That is what I would guess is happening here, which may be remedied in the Synchron Player.


----------



## Guy Bacos

That's why these faders are there.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Something else that might be helpful, is the P-Rel, if you increase 5 or 10 it gives a blur effect between notes, useful in slow passages, just be careful not to raise it too much. It's not a midi controller, however I believe it will be implemented as a midi controller in the next update.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Well, jeez @novaburst & @Guy Bacos. I might yet have to take back my criticism a bit.

I generally always have the release cranked up to around 85, but truly haven't thought of the attack scaler at all. Having played around with it for a while in the morning, I must say it feels _a lot_ better. P-Rel also helps.

This way, it was actually really easy to make the soft legato patch sound and feel like the CSS legato. The cool thing is that of course, one doesn't necessarily have to play around with the attack scaler globally, but just set the desired values for legato patches only in the edit view, without affecting the shorts etc.

I think I'm gonna try out an adaptive legato setup next. Soft legato with high attack value in one cell, the normal one with a lot less in the second, and the fast legato with just a touch in the third - controlled by velocity, resulting in the same behavior and feel as the CSS advanced legato, but only with customizable delay and "drag". Let's see how that works. Anything that saves me a few keyswitches/expression map lanes is always welcome.

Should have listened to my own bit of wisdom a bit more - it's never just the samples, but always the software as well.


----------



## meradium

Did anyone here already make use of the refund possibility in the past? I would love to give it a test run. But only so if I can indeed safely ditch it in case I can’t make it work...

Also, the editor options you just discussed are only available in the pro version of the regular VSL player, right?

I hope VSL will be a bit more generous with their next player (e.g. also letting you adjust the pre-buffer) and not charge one again for these basic things. Still a shock for me after I jumped on board with the percussion set...


----------



## romantic

@meradium:

I remember a statement on VSL Forum, that the synchron player available for free will be so "mighty" that VI-Pro is not needed anymore, so my assumption would be that all you need will be in there!


----------



## Sovereign

I fiddled with all the faders some days ago so nothing new to me here. These are not huge improvements as far as I'm concerned. The "p.rel" is the only one really relevant for the transitions and it will let them ring out a bit longer. However that's not the part of the transitions which bothered me that much, it's what comes before and which isn't there. The attack scaler does nothing for the quality of the legato transitions either and to me it makes it rather unrealistic to increase the attack rate of the destination note. The suggestion that you would need the ride the crossfade to achieve a decent legato transition misses the mark, the legato should sound good regardless. No quite frankly to me this is all still like putting lipstick on a pig, sorry.


----------



## FriFlo

I just decided to preorder the standard version of the library ... initially I wanted to go all in with the full version, as I got 5.1 surround speakers in my studio. The same for percussion: I ordered the standard when it came out, but I always planned for getting the full version once Synchron Orchestra is a proven concept.
That being said, this must have been the most doubtful time I have ever ordered a VSL library ... some things just make me feel like the VSL folks live in some kind of ivory tower. I kind of hoped for a statement from the company they were not quite on track with this release ... not only the missing parts but also what is there. Of course: You can only truly make a verdict on a library once you played with it, but there were so many obvious problems (next to some things that are great, like the pizzicatos and partly the shorts) with those legatos, I just couldn't help but being underwhelmed by quite a margin. One important factor to all of my thinking is the recources this library is using up! I am not against a monster library at all, but it has to be clearly worth the consumption of computing power and memory. Thus far I have seen only a few things that are worth that to me ... the shorts alone won't be enough IMO. What makes it so hard on your computer is mainly the 8 velocity layers. There have been some examples where you could hear the bonus of having more layers in the lower dynamics, but so far I have yet to be convinced there is actually a benefit of having more than double the layers of any other library.
And there has to be some kind of improvement with those legatos. But the latest demo of those legatos on the product page don't tell me there is any kind of awareness to this problem, I am afraid. I guess it is just hard to admit a failure (in regards to the legatos) after putting so much work into a gigantic undertaking like this. But I hope there will be some thought and work put into this, making this product exactly right and as bold and fresh as the initial promo told it would be! This work will better be done before only further libraries are released, otherwise there is a whole lot of reputation to be lost. I hope for the best ...


----------



## Critz

romantic said:


> @meradium:
> 
> I remember a statement on VSL Forum, that the synchron player available for free will be so "mighty" that VI-Pro is not needed anymore, so my assumption would be that all you need will be in there!


Nice.
So basically VSL is disowning everything that was considered the best part of VSL. They went with WET samples (and we can all see this is their first attempt in this area considering the poor results), they say now the new sampler is much better than VI Pro 2 (and Synchron Player is even free!!! ).


----------



## Critz

FriFlo said:


> I just decided to preorder the standard version of the library ... initially I wanted to go all in with the full version, as I got 5.1 surround speakers in my studio. The same for percussion: I ordered the standard when it came out, but I always planned for getting the full version once Synchron Orchestra is a proven concept.
> That being said, this must have been the most doubtful time I have ever ordered a VSL library ... some things just make me feel like the VSL folks live in some kind of ivory tower. I kind of hoped for a statement from the company they were not quite on track with this release ... not only the missing parts but also what is there. Of course: You can only truly make a verdict on a library once you played with it, but there were so many obvious problems (next to some things that are great, like the pizzicatos and partly the shorts) with those legatos, I just couldn't help but being underwhelmed by quite a margin. One important factor to all of my thinking is the recources this library is using up! I am not against a monster library at all, but it has to be clearly worth the consumption of computing power and memory. Thus far I have seen only a few things that are worth that to me ... the shorts alone won't be enough IMO. What makes it so hard on your computer is mainly the 8 velocity layers. There have been some examples where you could hear the bonus of having more layers in the lower dynamics, but so far I have yet to be convinced there is actually a benefit of having more than double the layers of any other library.
> And there has to be some kind of improvement with those legatos. But the latest demo of those legatos on the product page don't tell me there is any kind of awareness to this problem, I am afraid. I guess it is just hard to admit a failure (in regards to the legatos) after putting so much work into a gigantic undertaking like this. But I hope there will be some thought and work put into this, making this product exactly right and as bold and fresh as the initial promo told it would be! This work will better be done before only further libraries are released, otherwise there is a whole lot of reputation to be lost. I hope for the best ...


Let's say the truth: they already lost their reputation (again) with Synchron Strings demos. As you perfectly know, VSL is already the less considered library out there. 
If you ask them about VSL , 9 out of 10 persons will tell you "it's probably blasfemy...but I really don't like VSL libraries, sound a bit like plastic to me, outdated". You know it's like that. 
Now VSL confirmed that thought FOREVER! Trust me. I already started reading around the web people jocking around this new library. 
I really need an explanation from some VSL guy about the Herb's latest demos. Is he masochist or what? Does he want to take people away from early birds?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

It's shitposting time again, I see. Stop derailing the thread please. There's people in here with genuine interest in discussion and improvements.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It's shitposting time again, I see. Stop derailing the thread please. There's people in here with genuine interest in discussion and improvements.


Improving in what? Doing the work programmers should do? Those parameters should be something to move for certain particular passages, not all the time. To rise the release value is orrible sounding, same as the p.rel. In the past, with the dry libraries, it was all possible, because those parameters affected the sound before the reverb, but now it sounds totally weird and unnatural.
I found just a solution for the issue: add a good amount of reverb over the Synchron samples. Honestely other libraries like Spitfire and Berlin have better results even because their samples are much more wet.


----------



## Critz

Please guys, turn on your brains.
They promised reinvented legato, and a library where you just need a couple of keyswitch, and now you tell us we should start moving faders around to achieve, at the best, compromises? 
That sounds like more work we had before.
Oh, but don't worry, the new Synchron Player will do the trick, you bet.


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## Simon Ravn

Critz said:


> Improving in what? Doing the work programmers should do? Those parameters should be something to move for certain particular passages, not all the time. To rise the release value is orrible sounding, same as the p.rel. In the past, with the dry libraries, it was all possible, because those parameters affected the sound before the reverb, but now it sounds totally weird and unnatural.
> I found just a solution for the issue: add a good amount of reverb over the Synchron samples. Honestely other libraries like Spitfire and Berlin have better results even because their samples are much more wet.



I think the main problem with Synchron as far as I can tell is the recordings themselves. Too sterile, too "perfect". No amount of programming trickery will fix that. It's really a bummer having done such huge investments and recordings only to have had the wrong approach to how this library should play and sound. Worst thing is, I don't think they realize their mistakes themselves. I hate "bashing" VSL like this because they have done so much pioneering work in the past and their solo woodwinds are still used here. But I think their approach is wrong for what most customers want in symphonic samples. Their original string ensembles weren't that musical either, but in those days they were still good. So much has happened since then and VSL just haven't moved it seems.


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## FriFlo

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It's shitposting time again, I see. Stop derailing the thread please. There's people in here with genuine interest in discussion and improvements.


Oh is it? I can hardly see that from my side, as I clearly said I will buy this library and I wouldn't do that if not for some hope in VSL making up to their promises ... You on the other hand keep making your roundhouse kicks bashing anyone with some sort of criticism. As I said before: you do not help! Let's try an honest discussion instead about what seems to be good about this library in its current state and what not ... what might get improved with new software and what not. To me it seems you are emotionally way to much into this thing. Just try to make up your mind and don't be insulted by someone else who might not agree with you ... we all have different opinions (I still like the Pizzicato!), but there is no need to fight about these ...


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## FriFlo

Simon Ravn said:


> So much has happened since then and VSL just haven't moved it seems.


Yes, this is exactly what I meant by referring to them living in some ivory tower ... but there is still hope, they will learn from that (as quickly as possible) and make it right!


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## Critz

Simon Ravn said:


> I think the main problem with Synchron as far as I can tell is the recordings themselves. Too sterile, too "perfect". No amount of programming trickery will fix that. It's really a bummer having done such huge investments and recordings only to have had the wrong approach to how this library should play and sound. Worst thing is, I don't think they realize their mistakes themselves. I hate "bashing" VSL like this because they have done so much pioneering work in the past and their solo woodwinds are still used here. But I think their approach is wrong for what most customers want in symphonic samples. Their original string ensembles weren't that musical either, but in those days they were still good. So much has happened since then and VSL just haven't moved it seems.


I think I have to agree. At least they could have add more expressiveness in the "lyrical patches". I think we all smiled when we read lyrical legato. Except we then found out it's not lyrical at all.
But as you said, the whole concept is wrong; it's like Yamaha (and others) that keeps releasing expensive workstations for naive users that think those stuff is top notch.
Can I say it really bothers me to see (and hear) the same short sample layered with all the articulations to add a strong attack? You can't really do anything better with a 400+ gbs library? Berlin has 3 different kind of attacks layered with long notes.
Can I say once again we don't have a proper way to do rebowing on the same note? Did you notice that all the theme you tried out to test this library have same notes repeated? It's totally common in both classical and music for film. 
Can I say that the 6 variations on the fast legato don't do the job, I mean that unfortunately the passages they claimed were finally possible with this new library, are still not working?


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## AlexanderSchiborr

I see it similiar like FriFlo.

I did checked out also some demos on YT which features the Violins Legato and there is something synthy in those transitions for me..

VSl were back then the pioneers with legato but yes it changed a lot and there are other companies who did developed their own concepts of legato to a point where I have to say that I most of all examples I prefer the current libraries but not the VSL examples. Now..maybe they can improve some of the things with their engine. Some things are hard to get corrected once a "sample" is recorded.

I did listen to the Herb Demo and to be honest: Either this guy didn´t put much effort in his demo or..he didn´t know how to phrase and articulate for strings. His demo sounds for me very artificial and just not good..hopefully this doesn´t reflect the products capabilities because this can be done with other libraries even with the old Hollywood strings in a more believable performance. 

I don´t want to bash the strings, but my ears tells me that this is not up to the standards what we have now..at least not for my asthetics what I would go for.. And I am anxious but I hope that they have not put their whole funds into the development of synchron stage strings, because..I am anxious if they will break even with those strings in a saturated market which we have right now. I like VSL..I have bought from them in the past and I have no anticipation against them,just to say it.


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## Simon Ravn

FriFlo said:


> Yes, this is exactly what I meant by referring to them living in some ivory tower ... but there is still hope, they will learn from that (as quickly as possible) and make it right!



You think they will re-record the whole library with a different approach? Highly unlikely. That is a huge undertaking. And as I said, if they think themselves that they have done a great library, why would they.


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## Sovereign

Simon Ravn said:


> You think they will re-record the whole library with a different approach? Highly unlikely. That is a huge undertaking. And as I said, if they think themselves that they have done a great library, why would they.


Can only speak for myself, but I am not further investing in Synchron products. Had planned to buy the full library, but there's no way I'm doing that now.


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## ctsai89

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It's shitposting time again, I see. Stop derailing the thread please. There's people in here with genuine interest in discussion and improvements.



I don't see @Critz comments as not genuinely discussing the products though. 

Probably the least tactful but he's not being dishonest about what he feels or hears. 

But I do hope that Vsl hear all of you guys (who preordered) out 

There's always going to be negativity because nothing is perfect and that's ok.


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## FriFlo

Simon Ravn said:


> You think they will re-record the whole library with a different approach? Highly unlikely. That is a huge undertaking. And as I said, if they think themselves that they have done a great library, why would they.


Well, with all the discounts from vouchers and early bird I have spent under 300€ for synchron strings standard. That seems low enough to me to buy something purely to encourage them to move on and work on it. I don't expect them to re-record the whole thing. There are already good things in there as the shorts and nobody here knows how far the new player and maybe re-editing many things will get them. Then there will be further volumes for strings, for which they will be able to learn for from this release. With Synchron, I am in for a long term investment. I never expected this library to replace all strings I got now! But I think they have some pressure now to make that volume work as well as advertised and if they will just release the missing parts as if nothing would be wrong with it in its current state, I probably won't buy any further volumes of the synchron series. Actually, I am pretty sure at least some people there at VSL will be aware of those problems. And they will know, a lot of things will have to happen to make VSL a big contender in the market. They might have moved on to other stuff, like real recordings at the synchron stage, but I am sure, making those samples sell is an integral part of that business!


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## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> Improving in what?



You could start by improving this thread by removing yourself from it. 


FriFlo said:


> Oh is it? I can hardly see that from my side, as I clearly said I will buy this library and I wouldn't do that if not for some hope in VSL making up to their promises ... You on the other hand keep making your roundhouse kicks bashing anyone with some sort of criticism. As I said before: you do not help! Let's try an honest discussion instead about what seems to be good about this library in its current state and what not ... what might get improved with new software and what not. To me it seems you are emotionally way to much into this thing. Just try to make up your mind and don't be insulted by someone else who might not agree with you ... we all have different opinions (I still like the Pizzicato!), but there is no need to fight about these ...



My comment wasn't directed towards you or your contributions, but solely Critz, who's been childlishly trolling the thread for days.


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## Critz

FriFlo said:


> Yes, this is exactly what I meant by referring to them living in some ivory tower ... but there is still hope, they will learn from that (as quickly as possible) and make it right!


VSL is the same who developed the Dimension series, that is the most innovative and risky project sampling ever, imho. 
VSL is the same who developed MIR, that you could like or not, but we can't deny is the most advanced reverb, using an ambisonics approach when ambisonics were not mainstream.

So the problem here is another one I fear: Herb and Dietz have their strong ideas and convintions since ever. They trust in super clean samples. They probably trust also in unexpressive samples, to give the user more freedom, according to their point of view.
So..if they think this is how a legato should sound like..that's it..is over.
@Jimmy Hellfire keep insulting me. The fact is that since the first 2 demos I said my fear was to see the same strenght and weakness of previous vsl strings libraries. One of the weakness was the regular legato, that was always dodgy. And here we are.


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## ColonelMarquand




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## ctsai89

I don't think critz is trolling but he's critical for sure.


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## Sovereign

ctsai89 said:


> I don't think critz is trolling but he's critical for sure.


Given the promises made by VSL when it comes to the legato I consider that entirely justified.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

In case you guys missed it, I've been critical too, and for what it's worth, my posting of criticism was more on point, organized and ultimately _useful_ than any diatribe the other guy "contributed" so far. I shared my criticism on the VSL forums as well, by the way. But yeah. We do live in times where boorish ballyhoo makes heads turn.


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## jamwerks

Too bad this can't be discussed in a more human and professional manner!

Those just wanting to bash are most likely people with personal problems that find here a venting outlet. If you can't speak like adult professionals, you shouldn't be allowed to post here. Wish moderators would fix this. This kind of thing hurts the forum as a whole...


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## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> The attack scaler does nothing for the quality of the legato transitions either and to me it makes it rather unrealistic



Hi @Sovereign I think you are missing a big opportunity, it is not unrealistic, quite the opposite it becomes very realistic.

You can hook up attack cc and xfade v, on seperate control faders on your keyboard.

Then play your melody lines in live with very realistic results, 

The slurs and fast legatos have a bow change bite at the start, this gives an impression that you are playing a heavy bow legato, then when you compersition passage changes to something more subtle and soft you can ease off the attack to give the impression the performer is now playing softly or gentle or even smoothly, while also moving xfade volicity changing dynamics and mood of play, the suddenly go back to a more harsher playing and so on and that's just one legato and can be play with extreme speed.

All the release is doing is stopping cuts does not need any more than needed

I have heard your mock up you posted, some one like you should eat this up for supper with a lot of ease.

You really should be loving it,


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## leonardo

@novaburst:

Could you maybe post an example of the results you're able to achieve modulating these parameters? Just a quick line with the 1st violins playing a melody? That would be very kind and useful for people who still struggle to decide whether they should buy Synchron Strings or not. Thank you very much!


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## karusz

Hello, I am thinking if I should not give it back, but I must learn first. Comparing to Symphonic Strings of Spitfire is it any better this library? How to do a Vibrato Control? Is it possible at all?


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## Critz

omiroad said:


> For the record, I like the clean sound of the recordings themselves. If it's not to your taste then that doesn't make them bad in any objective way.
> 
> If the transitions are fixed in the new player then I'm surely going to regret not having bought it. But I don't have enough money to make a gamble like that.


Of course, I like that too. When the arrangment goes crowd it's a mess otherwise. Of course, that kind of noises and background gives a sense of depth and realism when you play a single patch. But I don't really like all the noises that comes in the release part of samples of Berlin stuff, for example (breath, papers, speech etc.).


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## FriFlo

leonardo said:


> @novaburst:
> 
> Could you maybe post an example of the results you're able to achieve modulating these parameters? Just a quick line with the 1st violins playing a melody? That would be very kind and useful for people who still struggle to decide whether they should buy Synchron Strings or not. Thank you very much!


You might have missed it ... he said he doesn't do demos. 
Seriously, guys! I don't understand why there is so much debate about debating this topic!? This is ViControl and it is the place to be critical. This is composers saying what they love and what they hate. This is where SF-fanboys battle VSL-fanboys and Berlin series lovers beat the shit out of sample modeling advocates (don't take this part serious, it is just my weird sense of humor!).
But there hardly is any sense in repeatedly calling someone a troll ... I cannot see a single post in this thread where someone was disrespectful in any other way but in saying they do not like this library. On the other hand, the way some people here get personal against other members, just because they don't like their opinions speaks volumes to me ...
I will keep repeating that on every troll comment from now on: Discuss and show (possibly backed up by a small audio clip) why the critical poster is wrong. I have not heard any snippet of audio by any of the enthusiasts that keep calling people trolls ...
Personally, I am just in the process of downloading SyStings standard. As soon as time allows I will check it out thoroughly and share my finding - yes, I will also do that in the VSL forum! But I did not want to express my doubts there from just listening to those examples.


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## Guy Bacos

My impression is that the faders are there for more personalizing your programming, give more flexibility. Not a recipe to go along with the library. I doubt 2 people will enjoy the exact same fader setting.


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## Guy Bacos

A more recent demo, something Herrmanesque:

Winter Blues


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## Simon Ravn

Critz said:


> Of course, I like that too. When the arrangment goes crowd it's a mess otherwise. Of course, that kind of noises and background gives a sense of depth and realism when you play a single patch. But I don't really like all the noises that comes in the release part of samples of Berlin stuff, for example (breath, papers, speech etc.).



For the record, that's not what I think VSL are missing, when I say the samples are sterile and too perfect. That's the playing style I am adressing. No reason to have breathing noises, papers and speech in samples...


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## jamwerks

Strings basically get sound with I'd say 3 elements: bow speed, bow weight & left hand vibrato.

Sterile is a word often being used here. But what does that mean in terms of how the sound is produced? And do the shorts also sound "sterile"? If so, I think you're disliking something beyond just how the people are playing.


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## erica-grace

Really good work, Guy! Are there legatos in there?


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## erica-grace

I don't understand why people can't criticize a product without being talked down and called a troll. IMHO, fanboys are the trolls.

I am with Friflo - as long as the conversation is respectful, there should be no reason for anyone not to say something negative about a sample library.


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## Guy Bacos

erica-grace said:


> Really good work, Guy!



Thank you!



erica-grace said:


> Are there legatos in there?



Of course, also slurs, and combining with cresc and others. Also maybe worth mentioning, the attack fader was not used at all in this demo.


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## Michael Antrum

I think it's pretty clear that despite all the arguments, VSL have dropped a rather big bollock and announced this product far too early, and way before its ready. This has been compounded by some really attractive intro offers that have effectively ramped up the pressure to make a financial commitment while the product itself is not the full ticket.

I don't think it's fair to judge this library fully until we have the new player and final release version - but by the same token, VSL should either extend the intro offer and/or the refund window until they have got this library fully sorted.


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## Critz

Simon Ravn said:


> For the record, that's not what I think VSL are missing, when I say the samples are sterile and too perfect. That's the playing style I am adressing. No reason to have breathing noises, papers and speech in samples...


Also, for the record, patch like Lo-soft_lyV or dim/cresc are not sterile indeed. They are very expressive, and you can feel the soft & subtle VSL talks about in the ads. 
The problem is we would expect to have the same feeling in some of the legato patches. The soft legato patch has a bit of it, that's why most of us think this is actually the better legato patch of synchron at the moment.


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## erica-grace

Guy Bacos said:


> Of course, also slurs, and combining with cresc and others. Also maybe worth mentioning, the attack fader was not used at all in this demo.



Thanks!

I thought I heard legato. But I thought the legatos were not available yet? Or do you have them, because you are a demo maker, and the rest of the customers do not yet?


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## ColonelMarquand

erica-grace said:


> I don't understand why people can't criticize a product without being talked down and called a troll.



Low self esteem and a low confidence base.

Hey! Don't blame me, I just work here.


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## Guy Bacos

erica-grace said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I thought I heard legato. But I thought the legatos were not available yet? Or do you have them, because you are a demo maker, and the rest of the customers do not yet?



For now the legatos are only available for 1st violins and cellos, for the other instruments I used other patches. I think it works well as it is, however, once all the legatos are available, I could probably make it sound more legato for some of the inner parts.


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## ctsai89

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> In case you guys missed it, I've been critical too, and for what it's worth, my posting of criticism was more on point, organized and ultimately _useful_ than any diatribe the other guy "contributed" so far. I shared my criticism on the VSL forums as well, by the way. But yeah. We do live in times where boorish ballyhoo makes heads turn.



No need to state the obvious fact that your posts were organized and helpful. Whether it's "more" helpful than Critz or not, I haven't really thought about it but you made my head turn too


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## muziksculp

I would fancy some more demos showing the short articulations. No legato needed there. 

Given the large number of Dynamic Layers, I think the shorts will sound wonderful, and very realistic compared to other string libraries.


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## Guy Bacos

muziksculp said:


> I would fancy some more demos showing the short articulations. No legato needed there.
> 
> Given the large number of Dynamic Layers, I think the shorts will sound wonderful, and very realistic compared to other string libraries.



In process...


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## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> In process...



Thanks


----------



## C-Wave

erica-grace said:


> I don't understand why people can't criticize a product without being talked down and called a troll. IMHO, fanboys are the trolls.
> 
> I am with Friflo - as long as the conversation is respectful, there should be no reason for anyone not to say something negative about a sample library.


How about being disrespectful to employees of VSL.. is THAT Ok? By the way his name is not “the Herb”, just Herb (as in Herbert), and he is the founder and Managing Director of VSL:
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Team/TEAM-Management_Administration
Calling him a masochist is not disrespectful of course just being “critical”.. and regardless of who he is I find it appaling. Pardon me if I find it harder and harder to justify the time reading this thread.
Edit: ARRGH.. sorry can’t help it, I have to keep reading, don’t want to miss those small nuggets of good ideas.Have to be bigger, have to be bigger !


----------



## Britpack50

I think the tone of the library is gorgeous, and on that I'm personally sold. But I'm a newbie and finding it hard to get any sense of an impartial view on this (surprise, I know). I do think the lack of synchron player is a key issue and it is hard to ask folk to go for the early bird without some sense of what that will add. Yes, in one way that's what an early bird offer is all about, but this is synchron..._strings_... _Vol.1_ so VSL are asking people to come on a journey with them and potentially commit a large amount to building an orchestral library. This should be the first library that really hooks us in.

I think they should keep the early bird offer until the player is ready, and can be demoed. that would be fair to see the library in (hopefully) its full glory. Otherwise, that century strings offer is a calling.


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## Christof

This is post #1117 (!) in this thread.
Looking at this number tells us a lot about the position of VSL in the industry.
Actually a very good position.
This company has it's very special philosophy, perfection and tidiness.They are famous for that.
If you want imperfection you will find it in other companies products.You have the choice.
Maybe the release of Synchron Strings was a bit hasty, but on the other hand we all have the chance to see it growing.
I was lucky to be part of the testing team weeks before the release and I had a great insight into how this company works, they listen very carefully about what musicians feel and say.
Herb is a visionary, and honestly, without him other companies would still struggle with the fact how to produce a legato patch.


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## muziksculp

@Christof ,

Well said. 

We also should note that VSL Synchron Strings is the first library VSL are producing that requires sophisticated Legato functionality that is utilizing a more wet sample base, so there is a bit of a learning curve involved for the VSL production team, nothing that was not expected, although I also share the notion that they rushed the release of this library. Synchron Percussion was their first experience with the Synchron Stage, but Perc. didn't require Legato functionality. So, being patient until the product is ready for prime time is the key here. 

I already Pre-Ordered the Full Library the day they announced it, I have no doubts what so ever that this will be a gem of a Strings Library once it is all baked properly to perfection. 

I agree that they should try to extend the early bird period special price until they showcase their Synchron Player, and post more demos, and videos that give a better picture of what this library offers. I'm hoping Synchron Strings I , and Sychron Player, with all related content, and tweaks will be completed by Feb. 2018. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Critz

C-Wave said:


> How about being disrespectful to employees of VSL.. is THAT Ok? By the way his name is not “the Herb”, just Herb (as in Herbert), and he is the founder and Managing Director of VSL:
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Team/TEAM-Management_Administration
> Calling him a masochist is not disrespectful of course just being “critical”.. and regardless of who he is I find it appaling. Pardon me if I find it harder and harder to justify the time reading this thread.


I can see your point, but "Herbert" should have respect for VSL users too. The demos he released looks like an Harakiri for the company. You can't deny it sound like (if not worst) a demo for next Garriton Personal Orchestra for Finale.
I felt ashamed I sticked up for VSL many times in the past, or at least I always tried to share my very good experience.




muziksculp said:


> @Christof ,
> 
> 
> We also should note that VSL Synchron Strings is the first library VSL are producing that requires sophisticated Legato functionality that is utilizing a more wet sample base, so there is a bit of a learning curve involved for the VSL production team, nothing that was not expected, although I also share the notion that they rushed the release of this library. Synchron Percussion was their first experience with the Synchron Stage, but Perc. didn't require Legato functionality. So, being patient until the product is ready for prime time is the key here.
> 
> Muziksculp



Sorry but in this industry, if you don't own it, you have to buy the know-how before releasing something.
At least don't write re-invented legato, even adding 4 measures of music with slurs and all the rest on the product page.
Because you're basically saying that everyone else did shit until know, and you're finally coming with THE answer. When actually, the legato we are hearing, is one of the worst out there.


----------



## maestro2be

This has definitely become an interesting topic and one I am closely and deeply watching every day. I am a VSL Fanboy as stated before but I am a bit concerned with the current state of the Legato's. The library itself has stellar acoustical properties, awesome shorts and the Flautando is a great and welcomed articulation. I have had some time to spend with them and while I do think that perhaps the opinions are being expressed a little bit aggressively versus how I might do it, there is merit to their sound.

I am very experienced in the VI Pro 2 application and know about all of those settings and in fact played with them all myself. The issue, unlike with their dry libraries is that it begins to sound really washed sounding from all the reverb buildup when you turn up those faders to a point where you get a very smooth transition. It just doesn't provide good enough results to me in their current state. I mean yes, you could tweak and tweak and ride faders and edit every single note and get a great performance but I truly believe, at least in my mind, I was being convinced that this would be the total opposite with this library. I would be able to get for the first time, real world cinematic levels of string sound out of the box with minimal adjustments. In my mind as well, I guess I let the advertising hype make me believe I was going to truly get "huge dynamic and emotional sounding strings". While I see many uses for these, that's not where they are by any means today in my opinion. The sound difference between the recording in that hall versus what they produce out of the box is staggeringly different. I repeat that it sounds like a group of musicians going through a piano lesson, instead of a recital of their greatest skills being exposed for our pleasure.

Time will tell as more experience is gained, the new synchron player is announced and released as well as we begin to see what additional libraries/expansions they will release (if any other than sordino). One of my concerns here is that, being a VSL fan for so long it's just not typical to see them "completely revamp anything". I never loved the legato in some libraries or some other various things here or there and no matter how much voicing, it was never adjusted. The one reality is that if they believe this is where they wanted to be, you better start accepting it now because it will never get an update of the magnitude it might take to fix this legato conversation. I refrain from saying "fix this legato issue" because "issue" lies in the beholder. I remember when I played a piano concert and someone came to me and said, "I heard that wrong note you played at such and such time". Of my entire performance, you will always get the 1-2 assholes that must smash you at all costs with negativity. My answer to him was very simple, "It's not a mistake when it's what I intended on doing".

Lastly, I firmly believe that after a certain point of seemingly no return, there are only few things that can change us. The most certain way is "trauma and pain". While I think that some of the opinions voiced here are a bit exaggerated with a bit to much "anger sounding emotion" attached to it, it sometimes takes this level of rebellion and aggression to get people to actually stop and take measure. Enough to make change. It's not often that you "gently, kindly and with friendly loving approach" explain to a developer/person your disappointment and get results. It seems to me that in life overall, it is the people who complain the hardest and voice the loudest and most destructive voice generally get the most reaction from their targets. How many times have you been kind and not gotten anything in return while you read about someone who bashes, smashes and threatens gets free stuff, the things you wanted and gets first in line treatment? They will do just about anything to win their recognition. Parents who have children that are golden children and then the sour duckling. Who gets the most attention from people trying to fix them? I can assure you pretty much any good mom will spend her life trying to please and fix that child all the while almost appearing to forget anyone else even exists. Maybe you have had better luck than me, but that's been my experience/observation.

I personally hope that they completely revisit these legatos and or script a new one called let's say for example "smooth legato" and create a true release sample and starting sample that blends together with little to no bump in any way or fashion. You want to hear the slight finger adjustment or the bow change, but what you don't want to hear is a large drop in volume followed by what might as well be a Marcato bowing. For now with my little to experience with them, I would also like to include that I would be willing to PAY for them to go back and this time play with true "passion".


----------



## Christof

Critz said:


> Because you're basically saying that everyone else did shit until know, and you're finally coming with THE answer. When actually, the legato we are hearing, is one of the worst out there.


Who said this?


----------



## muk

There seems to be something slightly odd with the note attacks in Synchron Strings. It is actually more pronounced with the sustain patches than with the legatos. If I load up a sustain patch and play, the note attack is too strong. It sounds almost like a sfz or an fp instead of a smooth attack. If I load up a sustain with soft attack there is the opposite problem. The note starts quietly, but with a very pronounced cresecendo afterwards. That is tedious to handle for me, because I am always fighting the note attacks for the first note of a phrase on legatos, or for every single note for sustains. Either they are too loud or too quiet.
The legatos don't seem to be ideal yet either. I made a short comparison between Synchron Strings, CSS, and Dimension Strings. Just a very simple short phrase, legato patch. The first two are out of the box (room mix preset for Synchron Strings), DS treated for obvious reasons:

Vl 1, Synchron Strings, CSS, Dimension Strings
https://app.box.com/s/oyt8oly9b46cwew9nxs73rapasy03h1l

Vlc, Synchron Strings, CSS, Dimension Strings
https://app.box.com/s/g8fisr2dvbmc29mz1bdpkel81hevvoep

The situation is a bit unfortunate for me. When I load up a patch of Synchron Strings and play a note I like what I hear. Nice definition, beautiful tone, a natural and classical sound. But when I tried my hand at a short mockup with SyS, when I thought the individual parts were fine, I am always slightly disappointed with how it all sounds together. I am not sure how much it is due not being too familiar with the library yet, the missing legatos for three sections, or the library itself. But so far I haven't been able to knock something up with Sys that I am entirely happy with.


----------



## Critz

Christof said:


> Who said this?



"_Synchron Strings I_ opens a new chapter in sampled strings by combining extraordinary musicianship, engineering, recording technology and software innovation. Played by members of the Synchron Stage Orchestra, recorded at our own Synchron Stage by top engineers, and backed by 17 years of sampling experience – _Synchron Strings I_ is about to set a new standard in sound, playability and realism."

Maybe you were referring to a new standard for VSL, not for the sampling world? I don't think so. Of course VSL didn't write "we did better than the rest of a**** out there", but this statement is clear.
Actually, there's nothing innovative in this library. Nothing. Other companies raised that bar long time ago. 


"*Performance Legato Re-invented*
Bringing together new recording techniques and innovative algorithms tailored to recordings on a scoring stage, Vienna’s revolutionary Legato Performances excel with a newly heightened realism."

Newly heightened realism? Definitely not.

As I said, since first 2 demos, I started to fear we will have experienced the same problems of previous VSL libraries. And now there's one important thing that comes into my mind!

I remember in an old post about Dimension Strings speaking about the legato being edgy and bumpy. I remember a reply by Herbert, who wrote "strange, to me this is the best legato we ever produced".
That means @maestro2be is right. There's no will to change things, because VSL is proud of that legato.The problem is that this time it's not just 2 or 3 users writing the legato is bad. This time there's the majority of users. Let's see if that means something for the visionary Herbert.


----------



## Casiquire

I'm still baffled by the statements that VSL is somehow stuck in the early 2000s, as though the Dimension series never happened. There's only one comment about it and I had the sole reaction to it. Not only is VSL still relevant, they're still innovative and one of the leaders in the industry. That doesn't mean they can't make a misstep, but it does mean that this level of backlash for an unfinished library in the wrong player is premature.


----------



## Casiquire

Christof said:


> Sorry, I don't get your point.What piece is ATM?
> I spent the christmas days with some high fever, so maybe I need some more days to get a clear head, seriously.



Chrisrof, you're not in the wrong here. There's a bizarre mindset of "I don't mind rudeness, so I can just tell people that I don't mind rudeness and it excuses my own disrespect" floating around lately.


----------



## Critz

Christof said:


> I know, but I want to hear what piece of music our dear friend means.



I'm just guessing here, but it's not a piece of music (not your well crafted and melodious demo for sure) but a piece of software (Synchron Strings).


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## ColonelMarquand

What really gets me, is that VSL are one of the best and friendly set people in the business. My favourite sample library company bar none, whatever that's worth. This isn't a friends Romans countrymen moment alas though.
They need to work through some of the issues on this library and make it great. When people pay money, they need to be satisfied and VSL are of course well aware of that and will deal with it.


----------



## ctsai89

Christof said:


> I know, but I want to hear what piece of music our dear friend means.



He was talking about the library, not your piece.


----------



## Christof

Critz said:


> I'm just guessing here, but it's not a piece of music (not your well crafted and melodious demo for sure) but a piece of software (Synchron Strings).


I don't care if it's my music or the software which was used to create it, there should simply be a kind of politeness in this forum.
Come on, there are other words to describe your disappointments than calling it the worst sounding piece of shit.
Seriously!


----------



## Piotrek K.

Wow, this thread is huge and it is now on first page of Google search on phrase "Synchron Strings". Also it has more emotions than VSL strings ever had 

Jokes aside, with Paul saying (on VSL forums) that editing rest of legatos (violas etc.) will take "weeks" from now is a bit of a signal what actually caused the delay in first place. Maybe they are aware that something is not right and also redoing cellos and violins. Or maybe they just wanted it that way and we just don't understand why. Doubtful but possible. So maybe we should create offical legato thread on VSL forum to discuss legato with them and not throw rocks here? You know, we should bark under right tree (actually I barked already in one of threads, waitng for bark back ).


----------



## SGordB

Looks like no one has shared this jawdropping mockup posted on the VSL forum yesterday by Beat Kauffman: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...g-Syn--Str--with-the-old-Lybraries#post268031 (scroll down a couple messages). It showcases shorts only, so it will be interesting to see what he does with those angst-inducing legatos next. I think his comparison mockup using the older VSL libs sounds fine too, but this one is breathtaking - clean, smooth, cohesive ... sublime.


----------



## ctsai89

Ok well I see that there are some people at the 2 ends of the rude/polite spectrum here. 

Honestly it's the best to move to the middle have a balance of both.

too much sugar coating/dishonesty will result in no good progress or improvement

too much rudeness and upfront honesty results in discomfort and darkness and hurt feelings.

Remember though, this thread could've been just like the discussion threads similar to Chris Hein's or Spitfire's that's gotten mostly praises, IF Synchron actually sounded good before people started to put money into it. 

In the end, speaking fairly: it's the customers that pay for the library, and the duty of developers to satisfy them.

But seriously I'm still curious to see what Synchron will become once it's fully developed. But at that time, I hope all the demoes will be re-made and programmed.


----------



## SomeGuy

I'm comparing Synchron to the SE orchestral strings, and in Synchron I'm missing that molto vibrato sound on the top dynamics, but maybe I'm not loading the correct patches? Anyone else compare the two? Any suggestion on a patch that has that fortissimo molto vibrato sound?


----------



## Critz

SGordB said:


> Looks like no one has shared this jawdropping mockup posted on the VSL forum yesterday by Beat Kauffman: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...g-Syn--Str--with-the-old-Lybraries#post268031 (scroll down a couple messages). It showcases shorts only, so it will be interesting to see what he does with those angst-inducing legatos next. I think his comparison mockup using the older VSL libs sounds fine too, but this one is breathtaking - clean, smooth, cohesive ... sublime.


We already praised the shorts of this library. Personally i prefer the version with old libraries. He spent more time programming it for sure, but mainly the bigger number of shorts articulations of previous libraries pay off. 2 kind of shorts is not enough; it's just Synchron Strings I, so I would not mind that if legatos were working.


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## ColonelMarquand

How does anyone here ever write music for a director or producer? I mean, just in case they hurt your feelings?


----------



## Saxer

muk said:


> There seems to be something slightly odd with the note attacks in Synchron Strings. It is actually more pronounced with the sustain patches than with the legatos. If I load up a sustain patch and play, the note attack is too strong. It sounds almost like a sfz or an fp instead of a smooth attack. If I load up a sustain with soft attack there is the opposite problem. The note starts quietly, but with a very pronounced cresecendo afterwards. That is tedious to handle for me, because I am always fighting the note attacks for the first note of a phrase on legatos, or for every single note for sustains. Either they are too loud or too quiet.
> The legatos don't seem to be ideal yet either. I made a short comparison between Synchron Strings, CSS, and Dimension Strings. Just a very simple short phrase, legato patch. The first two are out of the box (room mix preset for Synchron Strings), DS treated for obvious reasons:
> 
> Vl 1, Synchron Strings, CSS, Dimension Strings
> https://app.box.com/s/oyt8oly9b46cwew9nxs73rapasy03h1l
> 
> Vlc, Synchron Strings, CSS, Dimension Strings
> https://app.box.com/s/g8fisr2dvbmc29mz1bdpkel81hevvoep
> 
> The situation is a bit unfortunate for me. When I load up a patch of Synchron Strings and play a note I like what I hear. Nice definition, beautiful tone, a natural and classical sound. But when I tried my hand at a short mockup with SyS, when I thought the individual parts were fine, I am always slightly disappointed with how it all sounds together. I am not sure how much it is due not being too familiar with the library yet, the missing legatos for three sections, or the library itself. But so far I haven't been able to knock something up with Sys that I am entirely happy with.


That's an interesting comparison! Which of the legatos did you use?


----------



## rottoy

ColonelMarquand said:


> Jesus Christof ( spot the joke ), I'm not talking about your music or am even interested in it. Please take your personal problems and insecurities elsewhere. You're out of your league if you want to fuck with me.


What's with the completely unnecessary swearing? This isn't a school cafeteria. 
We could do well without juvenile vitriol here.


----------



## ctsai89

ColonelMarquand said:


> How does anyone here ever write music for a director or producer? I mean, just in case they hurt your feelings?



True.... 90% of the time how film composers who are just starting out are treated like, and felt..

But anyways let's try to have a good balance of rude/polite.

cut out the curse too or else you'll become like Nick B*tzd**f.......  you know what I'm saying.


----------



## Saxer

Just an idea... can we cut the outtakes of this thread and put it somewhere else in the forum? Imagine some people might even be interested in the library itself...


----------



## rottoy

ColonelMarquand said:


> Thank you for pointing that out Rotty. Hopefully you didn't splutter brandy all over yourself old boy.


You're welcome, Colonel Sanders! Personally I find your wings are seasoned with too much sarcasm.


----------



## Christof

Okay, let's talk about the trills and tremolos.
Nobody mentioned them before, the world is not only legato.
Legato is overrated anyway.
Peace on earth.


----------



## NoamL

miket said:


> It isn't about saving time or instant gratification for me. I've simply never heard a single instance** of someone making music that truly has character with any library that supposedly offers more flexibility through an inherent neutrality, and my own feeble attempts certainly haven't succeeded either.



This is the bottom line for me too @miket .

Some people denigrate libraries with "baked in character" by saying "Ah, so you want the library to play the music for you" but in my view, _every library_ is playing the music "for you." And even when you record an orchestra, they are playing the music "for you" too, no matter how much micromanaging you do on the stand.

You can change a library's tone with EQ. You can change its apparent distance with the mic mixer or an external reverb. But you can't change musical character.

Other people say "Get to know your VI like an instrument" ... I think one should know how to use every control-option that the developers have coded. But, aside from some very very limited tricks like Time Machine, you cannot change _samples_. Can anyone "get to know their VI" well enough to transform pizzicato samples into Bartok pizz?

VIs are not and probably never will be _instruments_. And I think it's right to be suspicious of any VI that advertises versatility anywhere near that of a real instrument.



jamwerks said:


> Strings basically get sound with I'd say 3 elements: bow speed, bow weight & left hand vibrato. Sterile is a word often being used here. But what does that mean in terms of how the sound is produced?



I was never a great cellist but I think there is more to it than those 3 elements.

Bow speed and vibrato are both certainly modulating all the time and are not decided on a fixed note-by-note basis. Those subtle changes are utterly contingent on the place a note occupies inside a musical phrase.

Libraries can only roughly imitate this with "arcs," "progressive vibrato," "Cresc/Dim samples" - these are all just ways of saying that a particular program of modulated bow speed, weight and vibrato has been recorded - but again this is on a note by note basis. Something as simple as a unified crescendo _across a series of notes_ is impossible to recreate in VI _without_ crossfading between different layers of samples.

The example @muk posted on page 57 is extremely informative. You can hear how in CSS there is _a lot_ of modulation of bow speed and weight "inside" of each sustained note's recording. You cannot remove this from the sample or "flatten out" the note. If it is appropriate for the music you are playing, great; if not, you are stuck with it. The Dimension Strings example also has some interior "movement."

But the SS example is almost preternaturally flat. This is what *"sterile"* means to me: the notes are not inflected at _all_.

In all truth, you would have difficulty recreating this sound in a non-sampling orchestra even with some direction like "vib ma non esp, very evenly" or something like that. It's simply not the first sound that string players reach for. We are trained, like all musicians, to have "musicality" and "phrasing" in our playing which means to inflect notes according to an interpretation of their role in a larger structure.

For my taste, I will almost always take the CSS example. Especially for mockups to present to nonmusicians, I would rather have too much expression than too little. There are a few moments in any example of CSS strings where I break through the "phantom" effect of the expression - the expression is at odds with the musical phrase and it's apparent that each note just contains random amounts and directions of expression, instead of unifying into a phrase - but for the most part, the illusion _works.
_
By the way people should definitely stop using the word "*synthetic."* That means literally nothing in this conversation. These strings are exactly as organic, or whatever the opposite of synthetic is, as CSS. They're just not expressive.



ctsai89 said:


> too much sugar coating/dishonesty will result in no good progress or improvement
> 
> too much rudeness and upfront honesty results in discomfort and darkness and hurt feelings.



Rudeness also results in people leaving the forum.


----------



## re-peat

After the initial announcement of the Synchron project (and the new venue they prepared for it), and certainly after the release of the quite wonderful, high-quality percussion, I assumed, as many did, that the Synchron Series was developed to be VSL’s new flagship fleet with which the Hapsburgs intend to navigate the increasingly competitive ‘virtual orchestra’ waters during the next substantial amount of years. Synchron: a high-end, no-efforts-spared, bar-raising series of meticulously recorded and programmed orchestral libraries for the discerning (and well-to-do) professional. As exciting an idea as ever came out of the VSL headquarters, I thought, and to which I subscribed immediately with great enthusiasm. 

With the inexplicably (and wholly uncharacteristic) slap-dash release of the strings however — the one Synchron library which everybody knew would get the most attention and which really ought to have been the instant new-benchmark-setting, competition-silencing centerpiece of the project —, the Synchron armada, barely out of port, appears to be making dangerous amounts of water already.

What a shambles they’ve made of the second instalment: software not ready, library hurriedly released in chunks instead of as a properly finished whole, first patch-updates within days of the release and, most puzzling of all: an on-going series of depressingly mediocre sounding demos, most of which hint more at the library presenting problems rather than solutions. (And what possessed Mr. Tucmandl to upload those 4 painfully bad legato demos, is completely beyond me. One couldn’t damage the Synchron project more if one tried.)

Seriously, if any of the orchestral sections of the Synchron Series deserved (and needed) to be introduced with a well-prepared, definitive collection of authoritative demos (and videos) that instantly dispell all doubts regarding the unique quality, possibilities and sturdy future-proofness of the Synchron project, then, surely, the strings — that all-important foundation of any conventional orchestra, real or virtual — were that section?

And it’s not so much the problems with the legato that bother me personally — legato, ‘true’ or otherwise, has never been very high on my list of things by which I evaluate a strings library (or any orchestral library, for that matter) —, it’s above all the return of that dead, generic and always-half-synthetic VSL-sound in nearly all of the sustain samples which I find so utterly disappointing and which, I’m sadly 100% sure, no degree of advanced technical sophistication in the forthcoming Player will be able to correct. 

How they do it, I don’t know, and the near-anechoic recording environment of yesteryear was clearly not the sole cause, because once again, this time in a much more reverberant and sympathetic space, they’ve managed to capture strings at their most ‘bereft of life’.

So far, I have only heard two promising audio examples: the short articulations seem to be really rather good and the pizzicati patches appear to be very useful as well. That’s a little something at least. But it’s hardly a fraction of a fraction of what I expected the Synchron Strings to be. 

The Tonmeisters at VSL have unparallelled expertise in producing bleachy-clean, artificial-sounding string libraries. As if, as part of the production process, every single sample is marinated for a week in formaldehyde. I had hoped that Synchron would finally break with that unmusical tradition rather than uphold it, but it turns out it wasn’t to be. Christoph says that the VSL team really listens to what musicians feel and say. That's great, but maybe next time, they should also listen to how musicians play.

_


----------



## ctsai89

Christof said:


> Okay, let's talk about the trills and tremolos.
> Nobody mentioned them before, the world is not only legato.
> Legato is overrated anyway.
> Peace on earth.



sometimes I wish the legato patch itself can create realistic trills (slurred alternating neighbor notes) and tremolos (the marcato part of the legato, played repetitively. I think spitfire comes pretty close to being able to do both except it can't tremolo fast enough that way.


----------



## ctsai89

NoamL said:


> Rudeness also results in people leaving the forum.



I would say it's the same for dishonest politeness. It will leave this forum left with only people who value feelings over reality because the ones who aren't in denial (about how good/bad a library sounds to them) are sharp enough to realize it's not worth their time to have to try extra hard to get the truth out of people.

luckily enough this forum has all kinds of people and it's not just all rude or all only-politeness. 

It's not in a bad place.

dishonest politeness is also a result of selfish motives. Say for example someone showed me a piece of theirs and asked me how I think of it, I don't want to lose my reputation although I didn't like it very much I would still say "it's an awesome" piece. In this scenario I sugar coated it for the sake of my selfish desire to remain reputable.


----------



## Casiquire

ctsai89 said:


> sometimes I wish the legato patch itself can create realistic trills (slurred alternating neighbor notes) and tremolos (the marcato part of the legato, played repetitively. I think spitfire comes pretty close to being able to do both except it can't tremolo fast enough that way.



This is my experience with Dimension Strings. It's wonderful


----------



## muk

Saxer said:


> That's an interesting comparison! Which of the legatos did you use?



The standard legato patch with vibrato, and crossfade activated. CC1 is ranging from 0 to approximately 75 0r 80, so the top dynamics were not reached.


----------



## C-Wave

rottoy said:


> You're welcome, Colonel Sanders! Personally I find your wings are seasoned with too much sarcasm.


I think he's really a Colonel.. he strikes me as having a very similar tone/attitude to that Sargent in "An officer and a Gentleman" 
If that's the case he might as well be a military composer? for a military band? In which case VSL is not the best choice.. kidding


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Just read everything as I wanted to know more about Synchron Strings. Some people are... scary, to say the least.

If anyone is looking for me, I'll be in my room playing taikos with Metropolis Ark 3.


----------



## NoamL

re-peat said:


> After the initial announcement of the Synchron project (and the new venue they prepared for it), and certainly after the release of the quite wonderful, high-quality percussion, I assumed, as many did, that the Synchron Series was developed to be VSL’s new flagship fleet with which the Hapsburgs intend to navigate the increasingly competitive ‘virtual orchestra’ waters during the next substantial amount of years. Synchron: a high-end, no-efforts-spared, bar-raising series of meticulously recorded and programmed orchestral libraries for the discerning (and well-to-do) professional. As exciting an idea as ever came out of the VSL headquarters, I thought, and to which I subscribed immediately with great enthusiasm.
> 
> With the inexplicably (and wholly uncharacteristic) slap-dash release of the strings however — the one Synchron library which everybody knew would get the most attention and which really ought to have been the instant new-benchmark-setting, competition-silencing centerpiece of the project —, the Synchron armada, barely out of port, appears to be making dangerous amounts of water already.
> 
> What a shambles they’ve made of the second instalment: software not ready, library hurriedly released in chunks instead of as a properly finished whole, first patch-updates within days of the release and, most puzzling of all: an on-going series of depressingly mediocre sounding demos, most of which hint more at the library presenting problems rather than solutions. (And what possessed Mr. Tucmandl to upload those 4 painfully bad legato demos, is completely beyond me. One couldn’t damage the Synchron project more if one tried.)
> 
> Seriously, if any of the orchestral sections of the Synchron Series deserved (and needed) to be introduced with a well-prepared, definitive collection of authoritative demos (and videos) that instantly dispell all doubts regarding the unique quality, possibilities and sturdy future-proofness of the Synchron project, then, surely, the strings — that all-important foundation of any conventional orchestra, real or virtual — were that section?
> 
> And it’s not so much the problems with the legato that bother me personally — legato, ‘true’ or otherwise, has never been very high on my list of things by which I evaluate a strings library (or any orchestral library, for that matter) —, it’s above all the return of that dead, generic and always-half-synthetic VSL-sound in nearly all of the sustain samples which I find so utterly disappointing and which, I’m sadly 100% sure, no degree of advanced technical sophistication in the forthcoming Player will be able to correct.
> 
> How they do it, I don’t know, and the near-anechoic recording environment of yesteryear was clearly not the sole cause, because once again, this time in a much more reverberant and sympathetic space, they’ve managed to capture strings at their most ‘bereft of life’.
> 
> So far, I have only heard two promising audio examples: the short articulations seem to be really rather good and the pizzicati patches appear to be very useful as well. That’s a little something at least. But it’s hardly a fraction of a fraction of what I expected the Synchron Strings to be.
> 
> The Tonmeisters at VSL have unparallelled expertise in producing bleachy-clean, artificial-sounding string libraries. As if, as part of the production process, every single sample is marinated for a week in formaldehyde. I had hoped that Synchron would finally break with that unmusical tradition rather than uphold it, but it turns out it wasn’t to be. Christoph says that the VSL team really listens to what musicians feel and say. That's great, but maybe next time, they should also listen to how musicians play.
> 
> _



A quote from one of my favorite movies ENTIRELY UNRELATED TO THIS THREAD

_"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face is that, in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so."_


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Here is the Jurassic Park theme taken rendered the new Synchron Strings with all the five string sections instead of the very exposed Violins line I posted earlier. I included a version rendered with the exact same midi file with Cinematic Studio Strings so you can compare the sound.

I used the Violins 1 legato of the Synchron for the V2 parts as there are no V2 legatos yet for the Synchron. I also used the Lyrical Vibrato patches for each section as they seem to be the best sounding in my opinion. I used the Mix mic position for each string section.

I included a version of the Synchron with some Eq to tone down the harshness and then blended it with Cinematic Studio Strings which seems to add the passion it needs. I also added Spitfire Symphonic Strings playing the same midi file to warm it up even more for the last version.

Creating a soaring melody is probably the hardest thing for a string library to do so this is a good test for any library to see how they hold up. I spent the day rendering the Jurassic Park theme with most of my libraries (Over 20) so if you want to hear it with any particular library then let me know.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/1-jurrasic-park-theme-vsl-synchron-strings-out-of-the-box-mix-mics-mp3.10999/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/2-jurrasic-park-theme-cinematic-studio-strings-out-of-the-box-mp3.11000/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/3-jurrasic-park-theme-vsl-synchron-strings-with-eq-mp3.11001/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/4-jurrasic-park-theme-vsl-synchron-strings-with-eq-blended-with-cinematic-studio-strings-mp3.11002/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/5-jurrasic-park-theme-vsl-synchron-strings-with-eq-with-cinematic-studio-spitfire-symphonic-mp3.11003/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## doubleattack

dhowarthmusic said:


> ...
> Creating a soaring melody is probably the hardest thing for a string library
> ...



In this case I recommend the Soaring String Library by Musical Sampling.
It should be easy than.


----------



## ctsai89

Just in case anyone wants to compare. I simply played this in within 15 secs with no editting. CC#1 on full, using SSS.

violin 1 tree mic performance legato patch.

Again no editting.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurassic-sss-test-mp3.11004/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## leonardo

NoamL said:


> A quote from one of my favorite movies ENTIRELY UNRELATED TO THIS THREAD
> 
> _"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face is that, in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so."_



That is certainly a very wise sentence; but independently from re-peat's personal opinion that one might share or not his post is just a great pleasure to read linguistically! It's a small piece of art in itself...
A sentence like _"As if, as part of the production process, every single sample is marinated for a week in formaldehyde"_ is just brilliant! I think you must enjoy reading it and laugh about it even if you don't share his opinion on this matter


----------



## Critz

That


doubleattack said:


> In this case I recommend the Soaring String Library by Musical Sampling.
> It
> 
> 
> Christof said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, let's talk about the trills and tremolos.
> Nobody mentioned them before, the world is not only legato.
> Legato is overrated anyway.
> Peace on earth.
> 
> 
> 
> should be easy than.[/QUOT
Click to expand...


Sure. Trills are very good, and extra dynamics can be useful.
Tremolos, the same..but for a 400 gbs library from VSL I was hoping for a legato tremolo patch as well, since they already tried it in the past. Also, something like slow tremolo, slow to fast tremolo, would be very very helpful..


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## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> Just in case anyone wants to compare. I simply played this in within 15 secs with no editting. CC#1 on full, using SSS.
> 
> violin 1 tree mic performance legato patch.
> 
> Again no editting.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurassic-sss-test-mp3.11004/][/AUDIOPLUS]



I will probably go with Spitfire in the future, so take my words as very honest words.
Spitfire samples are much more wet than Synchron. Same for Berlin. That helps them achieving a good legato because samples are much more blurred. If you add a good amount of reverb over Synchron you can achieve a simila result.
Bye the way, I start apreciating Spitfire's way, at least they give you something very good out of the box.


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## Mike Greene

Please try to be civil. Criticisms of libraries are fine, but rudeness for the sake of rudeness is not.

For that reason, I've banned Colonel Marquand. Maybe I shouldn't have have, and I may reinstate him later, but as of now, the drama is distracting. On that note, it would be best for this thread to be about VSL, so if anyone has thoughts about the colonel or rudeness or other non-VSL topics, please start a new thread in the Off Topics Political section or in the Forum Complaints section: https://vi-control.net/community/forums/forum-complaints-new.145/

Thanks.


----------



## jamwerks

re-peat said:


> ...it’s above all the return of that dead, generic and always-half-synthetic VSL-sound in nearly all of the sustain samples which I find so utterly disappointing and which, I’m sadly 100% sure, no degree of advanced technical sophistication in the forthcoming Player will be able to correct. How they do it, I don’t know,


I think the real culprit is the excessively large groups that were recorded (14 10 8 8 6). The sound that seems to displease the most (Vl I) is the largest group.

In a live setting, that large of a group work (for lots of reasons we could talk about), and creates a warm sound. But when sampling it doesn't. Berlin Strings has 8 6 5 5 4, and Hendrick spoke about the size issue when launching BST. Century has about the same. SSS like Synchron has very large groups, and not coincidentally suffers (though much less) from some of the same problems that excessive sizes can cause.

With only 8 players playing a "C" there's still a few cents tuning wise between each player. But with 14, the sound seems to become a single wide band, and there it can quickly loose it's "violin" quality and become "synthy" in some extreme cases, especially if there's very little vibrato.

Since many volumes of strings are planned between extended arts, then sordinos, etc. , I'm not sure that it's a good idea to keep this number of players.

It has me wondering if VSL did all the necessary tests before deciding on their section sizes, vibrato levels, mic choices, preamp choices, etc? Normally they would have done one section, most of the arts, on just a couple of notes, and mocked that up. Then have 100 of their best ears listen and ok...


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> I will probably go with Spitfire in the future, so take my words as very honest words.
> Spitfire samples are much more wet than Synchron. Same for Berlin. That helps them achieving a good legato because samples are much more blurred. If you add a good amount of reverb over Synchron you can achieve a simila result.
> Bye the way, I start apreciating Spitfire's way, at least they give you something very good out of the box.



well I just improvised a short excerpt, without CC editting. A tiny bit of midi editting only to get them on the beat without the drunkenness. Have a listen and message me if you would like the midi to try and recreate it on Synchron for testing purposes. If anyone would like to test their own synchron using my short excerpt, feel free to message me for it as well  Or you can copy it by ear it's not that complex 

this is pretty much "out of the box". Tree mic only.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sss-no-cc-test1-mp3.11006/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Saxer

jamwerks said:


> I think the real culprit is the excessively large groups that were recorded (14 10 8 8 6). The sound that seems to displease the most (Vl I) is the largest group.
> 
> In a live setting, that large of a group work (for lots of reasons we could talk about), and creates a warm sound. But when sampling it doesn't. Berlin Strings has 8 6 5 5 4, and Hendrick spoke about the size issue when launching BST. Century has about the same. SSS like Synchron has very large groups, and not coincidentally suffers (though much less) from some of the same problems that excessive sizes can cause.
> 
> With only 8 players playing a "C" there's still a few cents tuning wise between each player. But with 14, the sound seems to become a single wide band, and there it can quickly loose it's "violin" quality and become "synthy" in some extreme cases, especially if there's very little vibrato.
> 
> Since many volumes of strings are planned between extended arts, then sordinos, etc. , I'm not sure that it's a good idea to keep this number of players.
> 
> It has me wondering if VSL did all the necessary tests before deciding on their section sizes, vibrato levels, mic choices, preamp choices, etc? Normally they would have done one section, most of the arts, on just a couple of notes, and mocked that up. Then have 100 of their best ears listen and ok...


That's exactly what I think too. This impersonality shows up in all the bigger libraries. Majestica, SSS and Appassionata too. Doesn't happen to LASS though but they are sampled in Stems. Sampling world is a universe of it's own.


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## Guy Bacos

I'm not saying synchron strings are perfect, just as any string library out there, however, and I say this with all honesty, not as a demo maker, the qualities the library offers easily outweighs certain expectations that are not met by some. I have never heard strings sound this rich coming from my computer, that all I can say.


----------



## Saxer

Guy Bacos said:


> I'm not saying synchron strings are perfect, just as any string library, however, and I say this with all honesty, not as a demo maker, the qualities the library offers easily outweighs certain expectations that are not met. I have never heard strings sound this rich coming from my computer, that all I can say.


Cool!


----------



## doubleattack

Saxer said:


> That's exactly what I think too. This impersonality shows up in all the bigger libraries. Majestica, SSS and Appassionata too. Doesn't happen to LASS though but they are sampled in Stems. Sampling world is a universe of it's own.



Maybe it's true for the long arco patches; otherwise the pizz and short articulations benefit from the size of the sections IMO.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> I'm not saying synchron strings are perfect, just as any string library out there, however, and I say this with all honesty, not as a demo maker, the qualities the library offers easily outweighs certain expectations that are not met by some. I have never heard strings sound this rich coming from my computer, that all I can say.


May I ask if you are reffering to VSL only, or you mean taking into account other libraries too.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> May I ask if you are reffering to VSL only, or you mean taking into account other libraries too.



Huh?


----------



## NoamL

@dhowarthmusic I really like #4 and #5.



jamwerks said:


> I think the real culprit is the excessively large groups that were recorded (14 10 8 8 6). The sound that seems to displease the most (Vl I) is the largest group.



I'm not sure. Fourteen first violins is not crazy, it is just one desk more than Cinematic Strings 2, and one desk less than Mural or Hollywood (which is the "classic" size for Hollywood recording sessions).

Certainly Berlin and CSS are smaller, they are 10-7-7-6-5 and 8-6-5-5-4.


----------



## Guy Bacos

omiroad said:


> They meant, does it sound richer to you than any other VSL library or any other library period?



Well I thought that was my point. I own all VSL string libraries, and the richness is unequalled by far, and in that sense I totally disagree with Petr's exposé. Doesn't mean I'll stop using dimension strings, but more as specific usage.


----------



## Critz

This will probably be a 5 gbs library, if we think to other libraries from them. Please VSL, take note.

p.s: strange they didn't thanks Herbert on credits for this achievement, only possible thanks to his visionary mind.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Well I thought that was my point. I own all VSL string libraries, and the richness is unequalled by far, and in that sense I totally disagree with Petr's exposé. Doesn't mean I'll stop using dimension strings, but more as specific usage.


I love some of the "old" VSL libraries, but it's not difficult to be richer than a DRY libraries processed with a reverb. Basically every other library is always been richer than VSL in terms of sound.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> I love some of the "old" VSL libraries, but it's not difficult to be richer than a DRY libraries processed with a reverb. Basically every other library is always been richer than VSL in terms of sound.



I guess when you eat a cake you just eat the cream on top.


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## Vadium

Sweet short notes!

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/prkfv-vsl-sy-170bpm-meddynamic-roommix-mp3.11013/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> I guess when you eat a cake you just eat the cream on top.


I suppose It's more a matter of knowing there's the cream cake, but the world is full of other kind of cakes as well 
You can't say a cream cake taste wonderfully just because it's the best cream cake your mother coocked in her life.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> I suppose It's more a matter of knowing there's the cream cake, but the world is full of other kind of cakes as well
> You can't say a cream cake taste wonderfully just because it's the best cream cake your mother coocked in her life.



My reply was more to say that beneath all that cream, there are many lairs beneath, and to me, the richness is judged by the depth of a library. But this is a subject, we should drop I think before going in an endless loop.


----------



## novaburst

leonardo said:


> @novaburst:
> 
> Could you maybe post an example of the results you're able to achieve modulating these parameters? Just a quick line with the 1st violins playing a melody? That would be very kind and useful for people who still struggle to decide whether they should buy Synchron Strings or not. Thank you very much!



Using fast legato Synchron Strings

Jurassic Park bit, example from going from harsh to smooth, using Xfade and Slot X



some examples of speed and more harsh to smooth playing around


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## muziksculp

Vadium said:


> Sweet short notes!
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/prkfv-vsl-sy-170bpm-meddynamic-roommix-mp3.11013/][/AUDIOPLUS]



These Synchron Strings shorts sound very good. Haha.. but the String players must be using some bionic arms and fingers to catch up with this high tempo and play it this perfect 

Thanks for sharing this.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Vadium

muziksculp said:


> but the String players must be using some bionic arms and fingers to catch up with this high tempo and play it this perfect


Yes) It must be slightly detuned)

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%84%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2-%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BE-%D0%B8-%D0%94%D0%B6%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%94%D0%B6%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B0-mp3.11017/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## muziksculp

Vadium said:


> Yes) It must be slightly detuned)
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%84%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2-%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BE-%D0%B8-%D0%94%D0%B6%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%94%D0%B6%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B0-mp3.11017/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Hehe.. Yup, that's more like it


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## Critz

novaburst said:


> Using fast legato Synchron Strings
> 
> Jurassic Park bit, example from going from harsh to smooth, using Xfade and Slot X
> 
> 
> 
> some examples of speed and more harsh to smooth playing around



Sorry, but the results here are pretty embarassing


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## SGordB

Vadium said:


> Yes) It must be slightly detuned)
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%84%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2-%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BE-%D0%B8-%D0%94%D0%B6%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%94%D0%B6%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B0-mp3.11017/][/AUDIOPLUS]


This is fantastic. Maybe a little more detuning than necessary <g>, but it fully immersed me in Prokofiev's great trailer music.


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## Critz

SGordB said:


> This is fantastic. Maybe a little more detuning than necessary <g>, but it fully immersed me in Prokofiev's great trailer music.


You know someone could think you are serious?


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## SGordB

Critz said:


> You know someone could think you are serious?


... only in taking a gratuitous poke at the trailerization of orchestral music, of course. I love Prokofiev, and Vadium's mockup really does it justice.


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## Critz

SGordB said:


> ... only in taking a gratuitous poke at the trailerization of orchestral music, of course. I love Prokofiev, and Vadium's mockup really does it justice.


Oh! Then I really want to know what kind of libraries he used!!! I'd pay wathever amount of money.


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## SGordB

Critz said:


> Oh! Then I really want to know what kind of libraries he used!!! I'd pay wathever amount of money.


OK. I set the facetious tone, but ... seriously ... I believe he said he used Synchron. If not, I too want to know.


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## NoamL

The 2nd example is live.


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## novaburst

Critz said:


> Sorry, but the results here are pretty embarassing



And there I was thinking I could win the Oscars, oh darn 

I think it is very useful to make a legato sound different on the fly, it means you have control of what your legato is doing I believe there is a lot of benefit in that, it was played raw, and on the fly

You can also select a number of legatos of your liking and also tweak and put them under key switch, for even more possibilities.

These are just bits and scraps, but under a full compersition I am sure even you can see where it can benefit,

I am not sure if there is any other library that gives you this option to have greater control over your legato, if there is I would like to hear.


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## Vadium

NoamL said:


> The 2nd example is live.


surely, it is live recording for reference


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## SGordB

D’oh!


----------



## leonardo

novaburst said:


> Using fast legato Synchron Strings
> 
> Jurassic Park bit, example from going from harsh to smooth, using Xfade and Slot X
> 
> 
> 
> some examples of speed and more harsh to smooth playing around




Thank you very much for your effort, that's very kind of you, I appreciate it!


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## FriFlo

Vadium said:


> Sweet short notes!
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/prkfv-vsl-sy-170bpm-meddynamic-roommix-mp3.11013/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Yeah, the shorts seem to be really good! In this example, they are to clean to sound realistic, but that could be bettered by layering some other strings with the timing slightly off. Also, I would probably use less high velocities in this example, as no string group could play so many accents in a quick succession like this. Still downloading here due to my slow connection ... I think tomorrow I will have the synchron strings copy running!


----------



## Eptesicus

ctsai89 said:


> Just in case anyone wants to compare. I simply played this in within 15 secs with no editting. CC#1 on full, using SSS.
> 
> violin 1 tree mic performance legato patch.
> 
> Again no editting.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jurassic-sss-test-mp3.11004/][/AUDIOPLUS]



That doesn't _really_ sound better, it just does because it is loads more wet. Stick a load more reverb on synchron and it would likely sound the same.

Synchron is still quite dry compared to most.


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## N.Caffrey

Eptesicus said:


> That doesn't _really_ sound better, it just does because it is loads more wet. Stick a load more reverb on synchron and it would likely sound the same.
> 
> Synchron is still quite dry compared to most.



It sounds WAY better!


----------



## Sovereign

Eptesicus said:


> That doesn't _really_ sound better, it just does because it is loads more wet. Stick a load more reverb on synchron and it would likely sound the same.


Eh no.


----------



## FriFlo

I think the most valuable discussion here (apart form the legatos) is the sustains and some people here gave me new ideas on what VSL should really do to improve the Synchron series. There is this philosophy it seems that by recording very neutral sounding sustains one can sculpt the emotions in by using CCs or programming. While there are some situations where this would work, most of the time it does not come close to a real performance. The only way to make it happen is the sample modeling approach, but since VSL has (at least for the synchron series) left the field of dry recording and was never a pioneer of physical modeling their current approach does not quite fit for the synchron series. The fact that they recorded 8 velocity layers seems to suggest to me they did believe in that sculpting by CC which would lead to better results by adding more velocity layers. I am still downloading, so I cannot say it for sure until tried, but something like 4 - 5 layers (depending on articulation) and even less would have been probably sufficient to add some more detail. The remaining resources should instead have been put to record different kinds of sustains, much like OT did with the Berlin series. I hope (and guess) they already think about stuff like that ...
Maybe we are all wrong and there will be some completely new technological wonders under the hood of that Synchron player (like modeling expressivity and improving transitions in an artificial, yet natural sounding way)! But I understand the skepticism towards that, as this has never been successfully done up to this point.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I want spiccato, portamento and col legno.


----------



## Critz

FriFlo said:


> I think the most valuable discussion here (apart form the legatos) is the sustains and some people here gave me new ideas on what VSL should really do to improve the Synchron series. There is this philosophy it seems that by recording very neutral sounding sustains one can sculpt the emotions in by using CCs or programming. While there are some situations where this would work, most of the time it does not come close to a real performance. The only way to make it happen is the sample modeling approach, but since VSL has (at least for the synchron series) left the field of dry recording and was never a pioneer of physical modeling their current approach does not quite fit for the synchron series. The fact that they recorded 8 velocity layers seems to suggest to me they did believe in that sculpting by CC which would lead to better results by adding more velocity layers. I am still downloading, so I cannot say it for sure until tried, but something like 4 - 5 layers (depending on articulation) and even less would have been probably sufficient to add some more detail. The remaining resources should instead have been put to record different kinds of sustains, much like OT did with the Berlin series. I hope (and guess) they already think about stuff like that ...
> Maybe we are all wrong and there will be some completely new technological wonders under the hood of that Synchron player (like modeling expressivity and improving transitions in an artificial, yet natural sounding way)! But I understand the skepticism towards that, as this has never been successfully done up to this point.


Do you have the library btw? Because as you know I've been very critical to this library. But actually there are a lot of beautiful and expressive sustained note (soft, dim/cresc).


----------



## Critz

FriFlo said:


> Yeah, the shorts seem to be really good! In this example, they are to clean to sound realistic, but that could be bettered by layering some other strings with the timing slightly off. Also, I would probably use less high velocities in this example, as no string group could play so many accents in a quick succession like this. Still downloading here due to my slow connection ... I think tomorrow I will have the synchron strings copy running!


That's one of the biggest problem of this library: musicians are too accurate in timing. For some articulations they are so accurate to became unrealistic; let's think to pizzicato: in Synchron it's like everybody play at the exactly same time. Never happens in reality. 
Listen to Spitfire SS pizzicato. You can hear some musicians play a bit latar. The same happens in the release samples of some articulations like longs or tremolos. That gives you this feeling of realism and of a bigger section.
Synchron doesn't sound like 14 violins. Or if it does, then SSS sounds like 30


----------



## FriFlo

Critz said:


> Do you have the library btw? Because as you know I've been very critical to this library. But actually there are a lot of beautiful and expressive sustained note (soft, dim/cresc).


Yes, I am currently downloading. So far I just checked the Violins 2 for a short amount of time. There are those dim./cresc. patches you mentioned and they are great for very slow development. What I really like about Berlin series is the amount of choice you get with short and medium articulations (Spicc, Staccato, Martele, portato, Marcato, etc) and with different choices of sustained notes (accented, soft, immediate, etc). To me it feels like all those choices, while certainly difficult to handle, do enable you to write quite a lot of stuff much more convincingly than having fewer options with 8 velocity layers. Where I really like the amount of layers is the shorts, though!


----------



## FriFlo

Critz said:


> That's one of the biggest problem of this library: musicians are too accurate in timing. For some articulations they are so accurate to became unrealistic; let's think to pizzicato: in Synchron it's like everybody play at the exactly same time. Never happens in reality.
> Listen to Spitfire SS pizzicato. You can hear some musicians play a bit latar. The same happens in the release samples of some articulations like longs or tremolos. That gives you this feeling of realism and of a bigger section.
> Synchron doesn't sound like 14 violins. Or if it does, then SSS sounds like 30


With this accuracy I could live I guess, as it gives you greater control and playability and you can still get that sloppiness in by layering with some soloists or small string ensemble patches (actually, for the Pizzicato I think the combination of Synchron and a few Dimension strings on top seems promising to me). The only question is, how many other libraries will you be able to load with this monster of consumption already loaded?! I hope the Synchron Player will give an answer to that question!


----------



## Critz

FriFlo said:


> With this accuracy I could live I guess, as it gives you greater control and playability and you can still get that sloppiness in by layering with some soloists or small string ensemble patches (actually, for the Pizzicato I think the combination of Synchron and a few Dimension strings on top seems promising to me). The only question is, how many other libraries will you be able to load with this monster of consumption already loaded?! I hope the Synchron Player will give an answer to that question!



Layering it with Dimensions or other stuff is an option of course, but I don't want to be forced to do that.
Useless to praise the sound of Synchron if then you have to mess up the room with other libraries


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> That's one of the biggest problem of this library: musicians are too accurate in timing. For some articulations they are so accurate to became unrealistic; let's think to pizzicato: in Synchron it's like everybody play at the exactly same time. Never happens in reality.
> Listen to Spitfire SS pizzicato. You can hear some musicians play a bit latar. The same happens in the release samples of some articulations like longs or tremolos. That gives you this feeling of realism and of a bigger section.
> Synchron doesn't sound like 14 violins. Or if it does, then SSS sounds like 30



I have a feeling (and always had in regards to VSL) that it's more than just the accuracy and wetness that's contributing to the sibelius6-like-fake-ness in their sound....


----------



## Sovereign

ctsai89 said:


> I have a feeling (and always had in regards to VSL) that it's more than just the accuracy and wetness that's contributing to the sibelius6-like-fake-ness in their sound....


I was looking up the CSS manual today for something, and came across this apt quote: 
"Arguably the make-or-break aspect of any modern orchestral library is how musical and expressive the legato engine is. We spared no expense in creating the legato system for Cinematic Studio Strings. This meant sampling three distinct dynamics of legato, as well as portamento slides for all sections. Each legato transition was sampled in long-form, which means there is no x-fading or trickery going on behind the scenes."


----------



## ctsai89

Sovereign said:


> I was looking up the CSS manual today for something, and came across this apt quote:
> "Arguably the make-or-break aspect of any modern orchestral library is how musical and expressive the legato engine is. We spared no expense in creating the legato system for Cinematic Studio Strings. This meant sampling three distinct dynamics of legato, as well as portamento slides for all sections. Each legato transition was sampled in long-form, which means there is no x-fading or trickery going on behind the scenes."



So I'm guessing VSL recorded the legato transition in 1 dynamic level and xfades to the long right away upon the transition? I'm no developer and don't know how any of these are done but for sure the legato takes up a huge load of RAM in spitfire and CSS, compared to the other articulations. Berlin as well. So I'm not surprised.


----------



## Sovereign

ctsai89 said:


> So I'm guessing VSL recorded the legato transition in 1 dynamic level and xfades to the long right away upon the transition?


Those look like very good assumptions. Plus, unlike CSS, they cut too early into the transition, that's why it's so 'playable' (and also one of the reasons why it sounds like Sibelius6 ). The amusing thing is, the legatos would not have needed 6 or 8 layers, CSS only has four with three legato layers. I seriously doubt they ever looked at their competitors.


----------



## Simon Ravn

ctsai89 said:


> So I'm guessing VSL recorded the legato transition in 1 dynamic level and xfades to the long right away upon the transition? I'm no developer and don't know how any of these are done but for sure the legato takes up a huge load of RAM in spitfire and CSS, compared to the other articulations. Berlin as well. So I'm not surprised.



Nah, that wouldn't work, having just one layer legato. Obviously you need a lower dynamic recorded for lower dynamic sustains - ideally you should have the same dynamics recorded for both legato intervals and sustains. Don't know how many layers VSL did for legato, but I can't believe they only recorded one. An mf/f/ff layer would certainly not work for piano playing - and a p layer would get lost in an f/ff interval.


----------



## Sovereign

Simon Ravn said:


> Nah, that wouldn't work, having just one layer legato. Obviously you need a lower dynamic recorded for lower dynamic sustains - ideally you should have the same dynamics recorded for both legato intervals and sustains. Don't know how many layers VSL did for legato, but I can't believe they only recorded one. An mf/f/ff layer would certainly not work for piano playing - and a p layer would get lost in an f/ff interval.


I listened closely while fading from the lowest to the highest dynamic. I could not hear any change in the intervals other than a volume change. Perhaps they sampled mf intervals only.


----------



## ctsai89

Sovereign said:


> I listened closely while fading from the lowest to the highest dynamic. I could not hear any change in the intervals other than a volume change. Perhaps they sampled mf intervals only.



Or maybe there's a bug in which the player doesn't catch the other samples?


----------



## Rob Elliott

Sovereign said:


> I listened closely while fading from the lowest to the highest dynamic. I could not hear any change in the intervals other than a volume change. Perhaps they sampled mf intervals only.


Gosh I hope not. :( Volume and filter usage just won't get you there. I bet they did multi layers on the transitions.


----------



## muziksculp

It would be helpful if VSL tells us how many Legato Transition Dynamics they sampled. 

Maybe *Paul at VSL* can chime in, and give us a perspective on this important detail.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Sovereign said:


> I listened closely while fading from the lowest to the highest dynamic. I could not hear any change in the intervals other than a volume change. Perhaps they sampled mf intervals only.



Wow, that would be insane.


----------



## ctsai89

Simon Ravn said:


> Wow, that would be insane.



wasn't it @Critz who noticed it as well? can't remember.


----------



## Sovereign

Rob Elliott said:


> Gosh I hope not. :( Volume and filter usage just won't get you there. I bet they did multi layers on the transitions.


Well, here's an example of the slurred violins legato, crossfading from low to high.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-intervals-mp3.11019/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## ctsai89

Sovereign said:


> Well, here's an example of the slurred violins legato, crossfading from low to high.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-intervals-mp3.11019/][/AUDIOPLUS]



what? that sounds like portamento to me lol that doens't sound THAT bad.

But in herb's demo, the fast legato is by far the most synthy thing I've heard out of all string libraries...


----------



## Sovereign

ctsai89 said:


> what? that sounds like portamento to me lol that doens't sound THAT bad.


It's the best of the worst.  But pay attention to the repeating interval, it sounds the same all the way up.


----------



## Critz

Sl


ctsai89 said:


> what? that sounds like portamento to me lol that doens't sound THAT bad.
> 
> But in herb's demo, the fast legato is by far the most synthy thing I've heard out of all string libraries...


Slurs is basically the same as portamento for small intervals btw.


----------



## FriFlo

ctsai89 said:


> what? that sounds like portamento to me lol that doens't sound THAT bad.
> 
> But in herb's demo, the fast legato is by far the most synthy thing I've heard out of all string libraries...


That is the slurred legato (which is actually not that far from a portamento, just a bit quicker).


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> wasn't it @Critz who noticed it as well? can't remember.


Yes. To me they sampled 1 or 2 dynamic layers for legato. If it was me, I would sample not only much dynamic layers, but also more than one legato samples, so that you have at least 2 samples for the rr.


----------



## Critz

Sovereign said:


> Those look like very good assumptions. Plus, unlike CSS, they cut too early into the transition, that's why it's so 'playable' (and also one of the reasons why it sounds like Sibelius6 ). The amusing thing is, the legatos would not have needed 6 or 8 layers, CSS only has four with three legato layers. I seriously doubt they ever looked at their competitors.



CSS did a great job planning the whole project. They have a great soft layer, really expressive. The mf is beautiful as well and quite playable.
But for example they miss the ff layer in my opinion (that is not that important, it s overused with samples but most of the time you would write tremolo for a ff sustained note on strings.
But it's a 40 gb library. I suppose they could do really great stuff with 400 gbs


----------



## FriFlo

To be fair, I think we really have to wait for the Synchron Player ... not that I think it will make all problems go away on its own, but through Kontakt scripts other developers could over the years combine a lot of samples in intelligent ways to make the sound we are used to today. VIpro might just miss these features (scripting). I am sure it will be all clearer as soon as they finish that piece of software. Won't happen soon, though, I am afraid ...


----------



## Critz

I'm afraid the Synchron Player will be innovative as much as the library: innovative just compared to VSL previous player.
I'm pretty sure we will see a GUI not very differeny from Berlin legato patch, where you can switch among no vib, lyr vib and norm vib, while the player choose the correct legato according to the playing.
It will offer some stuff VI pro is missing, like legato volume, etc


----------



## smoothielova

I've been following this thread for the past several months and preordered when they announced. I really want to like this library, but the examples of everything I have heard have been from ok too horrible. I really don't know whether to give this library a chance and wait for Feb? Or is it best to get ones money back now? Thats a lot of space for something that doesn't sound great.


----------



## FriFlo

smoothielova said:


> I've been following this thread for the past several months and preordered when they announced. I really want to like this library, but the examples of everything I have heard have been from ok too horrible. I really don't know whether to give this library a chance and wait for Feb? Or is it best to get ones money back now? Thats a lot of space for something that doesn't sound great.


Well, if you are in that position, I suppose it would be a good thing to write to VSL, tell them about your doubts and ask them what they have planned to improve on what they have now. Of course, they won't tell you any details on what they plan doing, but maybe this way you can get knowledge how they think about it: Do they think it is all great as it is and the only thing is the missing software plus the missing legato instruments or do they acknowledge this is way below the standard that people have expected from them ...


----------



## jamwerks

It would be interesting to give a listen to some sound tracks recorded at Syncron, to hear what the strings sound like, especially if there were cues where the strings were exposed or unaccompanied.


----------



## stargazer

FriFlo said:


> Well, if you are in that position, I suppose it would be a good thing to write to VSL, tell them about your doubts and ask them what they have planned to improve on what they have now. Of course, they won't tell you any details on what they plan doing, but maybe this way you can get knowledge how they think about it: Do they think it is all great as it is and the only thing is the missing software plus the missing legato instruments or do they acknowledge this is way below the standard that people have expected from them ...


I preordered early too, and have installed the library in its current state.
I’ve written to VSL but haven’t got an answer yet.
I guess I’m not the only one that would appreciate if someone from VSL could chime in here with an update and also give us a hint on what the plans are regarding Synchron Strings II.
Con sordinos?
Or more articulations; legato, dynamics, vibrato, repetitions, variations, espressivo etc?

Also, what will the new player bring to the table in that context?


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Actually there is a YouTube video on the VSL website: 

And have a look at the Synchron Stage website. There were some Hollywood demos (Jurassic Park etc.), but they have removed them, I think.

The strings sound gorgeous there.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I found the Jurassic Park recording at Synchron Stage, if anyone finds this interesting:


----------



## jamwerks

Interesting to listen to those recordings! The samples indeed seem to have the same eq sonic footprint that I hear in those pieces.


----------



## smoothielova

FriFlo said:


> Well, if you are in that position, I suppose it would be a good thing to write to VSL, tell them about your doubts and ask them what they have planned to improve on what they have now. Of course, they won't tell you any details on what they plan doing, but maybe this way you can get knowledge how they think about it: Do they think it is all great as it is and the only thing is the missing software plus the missing legato instruments or do they acknowledge this is way below the standard that people have expected from them ...


I will for sure. I own their newest percussion library and it sounds brilliant. Thats why for the life of me don't get why this string library sounds like my old Costco Casio Keyboard. It pains me to say these things because I WANT this to be amazing. I want to believe the new player will make this thing sound nearly real. The tone of the library is gorgeous and I hear a depth I haven't heard from any other library. This library has SO MUCH potential!!! I just hope it gets better in February.


----------



## jamwerks

Don't think the new player will have any incidence whatsoever on the sound...


----------



## SGordB

Does everybody realize that when the early-bird price ends, it switches to introductory price - only 5% more expensive, 25% off vs 30%. The greater urgency is the 4-for-3 voucher sale which ends Dec 31.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Concerning Synchron Player... I'm not sure if it will improve the sound, but I rewatched the Cello sneak peek and at the very end Paul talks about it shortly.

"Imagine you had a sample player that let's you control all these parameters *at once*: velocity crossfade, vibrato crossfade, marcato control, and, add speed control, unlimited stacking options and a full-blown mixer."

That sounds interesting, but all parameters at once?


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> Yes. To me they sampled 1 or 2 dynamic layers for legato. If it was me, I would sample not only much dynamic layers, but also more than one legato samples, so that you have at least 2 samples for the rr.



Trust me I would vote for you if you wanted to be the head of developing a string library


----------



## erica-grace

Critz said:


> Yes. To me they sampled 1 or 2 dynamic layers for legato.



According to Paul, it's 8.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

erica-grace said:


> According to Paul, it's 8.


Of cource, you can say legato with 8 velocity layers, but it refers to the following sustains, not the legato transitions. That's what I learnt from other libraries, but maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> Trust me I would vote for you if you wanted to be the head of developing a string library


You know..someone could aswer me: "Easy to say like that. But then you'll end up with a 400 gbs library!!"
Well..actually that's what already happened.


----------



## karusz

I do repeat my question, is it possible to do a vibrato control?


----------



## erica-grace

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Of cource, you can say legato with 8 velocity layers, but it refers to the following sustains, not the legato transitions.



No - it refers to the legatos as well.

[email protected]

Why not email and ask, as opposed to posting incorrect assumptions?


----------



## Casiquire

karusz said:


> I do repeat my question, is it possible to do a vibrato control?



Yes


----------



## Sovereign

karusz said:


> I do repeat my question, is it possible to do a vibrato control?


Yes.


erica-grace said:


> No - it refers to the legatos as well.


Well, do you hear 8 distinct layers of legato intervals in the crossfade example I posted? That would seem to matter most, no?

Either way, I'm pretty sure Paul means that there are 8 layers per legato articulation (which there are, although two layers are removed when crossfading). No one here is suggesting that the legatos as a whole have two dynamic layers, we're talking about the intervals and how many dynamic layers were recorded and are used for those specifically. Considering VSL isn't very open about their editing and recording techniques, I doubt we'll see a very specific answer on that issue.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

erica-grace said:


> No - it refers to the legatos as well.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> Why not email and ask, as opposed to posting incorrect assumptions?



I was only guessing, because some people here said it was only one legato interval they hear. And of course from what I learnt from other libraries. Other libraries refer to the sustain notes that follow the legatos, if I understand that correctly. EastWest actually mentions their legato intervals separately for Hollywood Strings. But I guess it refers to the sustains, I don't know.

It was not my intention to post incorrect details, sorry for that.

And if that's true with the amount of legato layers, it is awesome. But I can hardly imagine.


----------



## karusz

Sovereign said:


> Yes.
> Thank you very much, but how?


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Vibrato Control is actually a bit different with VI Pro. It cannot be compared to Spitfire or others. You had always the possibility to crossfade between non-vibrato and vibrato with SlotX, but it took time to program it.

Watch the VE project video on the VSL website or look at the manual which comes with the VE templates. All patches are explained there. Some, not each patch (that's why I said it cannot be compared to other libraries) let you crossfade vibrato with SlotX.

Synchron Player will handle that better, as far as I understand Paul in the Cello sneak peek video (which I mentioned earlier).


----------



## Sovereign

karusz said:


> Thank you very much, but how?


Via cc controller, only with patches marked XL or XM.


----------



## jamwerks

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> ...Other libraries refer to the sustain notes that follow the legatos, if I understand that correctly. EastWest actually mentions their legato intervals separately for Hollywood Strings. But I guess it refers to the sustains, I don't know...


Yeah devs understandably keep a lot of their legato secrets to themselves. And I think there are more than one way to do (record & edit) legato. 8dio had a different way of doing it, at least with Adagio.


----------



## paoling

If I may: there are just two methods. The long way, sampling the full note that follows the transition, which is mandatory for solo instruments (and there’s a wide gap in musicality for solo libraries that don’t do it). The short way is just sampling the transition, which is perfectly fine for ensembles.

Even if the library is locked you can always spot which method is used. Looking at the voice count in Kontakt can be a way to understand this, but also by hear you should be able to listen if it’s always the same sample that’s triggered when reaching a note from any other note.

In someother cases, to simplify scripting, a sustain is manually “glued” to the samples.

Then yes you can make legato at different dynamics, you can make different kind of legato-connections (slurred, fast, slow, bowchange).

So it’s not so complicated. What is complicated is how to plan the session to get the most from the musicality of the performers you are working with.

And also there are the scripting tricks that can be implemented to trigger the right stuff (look at the Bohemian series) according to the user input.

By the way, to credit 8dio, the idea that inbound dynamics in the samples can give a new breath and musicality to the sampled content is completely true. It complicates playability and poses some problems in scripting, but leaving a certain “controlled” amount of freedom at the musicians in the sampling session can often make the difference.


----------



## erica-grace

Hey paoling - thanks for that!

What do you mean by _inbound dynamics_?


----------



## Christof

erica-grace said:


> According to Paul, it's 8.


We recorded 8 dynamic layers, as Paul mentioned in the video.


----------



## stargazer

Christof said:


> We recorded 8 dynamic layers, as Paul mentioned in the video.


Sorry if I misunderstood you, but once again; no question the legato patches have eight dynamic layers.
The discussion, relevant for at least the lyrical legato, is about the number of (layers with) unique interval samples in those patches.


----------



## paoling

erica-grace said:


> What do you mean by _inbound dynamics_?


Good question. I meant that I had no idea of what “inbound” means. 

What I tried to say is samples with “included” dynamics. For example 8dio have all this “arc” concept.


----------



## Casiquire

Apologies if anybody already posted this, but this video is great. I actually really like the tone of it in this video and I hadn't fallen for the tone of the official demos.


----------



## novaburst

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> SlotX, but it took time to program it.



Slot X is very good and gives you control over a few more things, and gives no artifacts, also work great with legato, again no artifacts or unnatural.


----------



## novaburst

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> that's why I said it cannot be compared to other libraries)



And I wish people would stop doing this, VSL just simply works differently.

And give you much more control over what you are doing,

I think if you try to use VSL, Synchron Strings like regular library's, you will get very confused, hence you will be disappointed.


----------



## Simon Ravn

novaburst said:


> And I wish people would stop doing this, VSL just simply works differently.
> 
> And give you much more control over what you are doing,
> 
> I think if you try to use VSL, Synchron Strings like regular library's, you will get very confused, hence you will be disappointed.



So you're saying Synchron Strings are supposed to sound bad or what? Because how a library "works" is in my opinion pretty closely related to how it SOUNDS. Different kinds of vibrato and legato etc is all fine, but if the foundation (the sound) doesn't work then the rest doesn't matter.

I would say that when we have demos from people who know how VSL works like their own back pocket, and those demos don't cut it, the arrow points to the recordings.


----------



## Lotias

Casiquire said:


> Apologies if anybody already posted this, but this video is great. I actually really like the tone of it in this video and I hadn't fallen for the tone of the official demos.



Why on Earth is he running it through MIRx? I thought something sounded weird and then I noticed.


----------



## eli0s

muk said:


> Vl 1, Synchron Strings, CSS, Dimension Strings
> https://app.box.com/s/oyt8oly9b46cwew9nxs73rapasy03h1l
> 
> Vlc, Synchron Strings, CSS, Dimension Strings
> https://app.box.com/s/g8fisr2dvbmc29mz1bdpkel81hevvoep



Wow! Late reply but I am really impressed with how good the Dimension Strings sound! Especially the violins in these examples!


----------



## Eptesicus

As people have said, the transitions are too quick and also there seems to be too much attack after the transition which makes things sound unconnected.


----------



## Sovereign

Simon Ravn said:


> So you're saying Synchron Strings are supposed to sound bad or what? Because how a library "works" is in my opinion pretty closely related to how it SOUNDS. Different kinds of vibrato and legato etc is all fine, but if the foundation (the sound) doesn't work then the rest doesn't matter.


Precisely. And the idea that VSL somehow works differently and gives more control is just wrong too. Vibrato control under a CC-slider is as old as HW strings. So all this talk about not approaching VSL as a "regular library", pretending it is all special, is just an excuse for poor sound as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Critz

But vibrato works like that for Spitfire too I guess. And Berlin Strints has no control for the vibrato.
By the way, I'm not intersted at all in controllint the vibrato. This is one of the parameter that hS to be recorded from players. So I prefer to have like vib, vib progress, molto vib, vib to non vib.


----------



## novaburst

Simon Ravn said:


> demos from people who know how VSL works like their own back pocket, and those demos don't cut it, the arrow points to the recordings.



That's a matter of opinion, most of the time it's just the listener who does not like what's going, ok also the one doing the demo perhaps should put more time into it.



Simon Ravn said:


> So you're saying Synchron Strings are supposed to sound bad or what?



No I am not saying that, but I will say is there has not been a lot of effort by users in trying to make things work to there advantage, before they start saying the library is not good.

All in all no and understand what you are purchasing, or stay away and go for something you are more familiar with and have a happy life.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Lotias said:


> Why on Earth is he running it through MIRx? I thought something sounded weird and then I noticed.


Probably, he uses the close mics and run them through Mir Pro. I remember there was a post in the VSL forum where someone was asking if this were possible. Because, actually, the close mics resemble the "old" Silent Stage samples.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Sovereign said:


> Precisely. And the idea that VSL somehow works differently and gives more control is just wrong too. Vibrato control under a CC-slider is as old as HW strings. So all this talk about not approaching VSL as a "regular library", pretending it is all special, is just an excuse for poor sound as far as I'm concerned.


No, VSL is indeed different, in so many ways. And that's why I like VI Pro so much. I could elaborate on this, but it will break the window of time, I think.

HW Strings (and others) comes with vibrato control, but it is set for you. As well as all the other behaviours you are acquainted with. In VI Pro you have to think first and program it, you have to understand the behaviour behind it. Of course, you have a vibrato slider in VI Pro, but do you notice how this works? It crossfades between the no-vibrato sample and the vibrato-sample. If there wasn't such a preset for you, you had no vibrato crossfade at all.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Did someone notice that Paul has installed Spitfire Symphonic Strings (or at least they have the samples in some way)? You can see it at the end of the "VE Projects" video. It's a bit weird that it's in his directory manager.

Hm... I have to confess that I don't like the legatos at their current state and I miss the espressivo vibrato when I read lyrical vibrato. But maybe VSL took Spitfire as an example (only a guess!) and Synchron Player will improve a lot. I hope so.

What I don't understand: if Synchron Player with it's innovative algorithms will improve something, why are they saying Synchron Strings works with VI Pro. Doesn't it mean they are convinced of the legatos?


----------



## Sovereign

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> No, VSL is indeed different, in so many ways.


I don't see anything of substance here, sorry, different in what way? You mean this below?



> HW Strings (and others) comes with vibrato control, but it is set for you. As well as all the other behaviours you are acquainted with. In VI Pro you have to think first and program it, you have to understand the behaviour behind it. Of course, you have a vibrato slider in VI Pro, but do you notice how this works? It crossfades between the no-vibrato sample and the vibrato-sample. If there wasn't such a preset for you, you had no vibrato crossfade at all.


This is getting pretty silly and I cannot for the love of god put a finger on the point you're trying to make. There is no real 'programming' for Synchron, the presets are provided on download which you even admit, including the crossfades. Setting a CC-controller or fiddling with release times sure as hell is not "programming". If that's true, then I'm "programming" a lot in Kontakt too. Heck, I suppose I was 'programming' years ago then when I was using the VSL performance cube as their legato tool already had sliders back then for release time and legato threshold. Plus you're seriously mistaken if you're under the impression VSL is the only library which allows tweaking of legato parameters with knobs and sliders.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Sovereign said:


> This is getting pretty silly and I cannot for the love of god put a finger on the point you're trying to make. There is no real 'programming' for Synchron, the presets are provided on download which you even admit, including the crossfades. Setting a CC-controller or fiddling with release times sure as hell is not "programming". If that's true, then I'm "programming" a lot in Kontakt too. Heck, I suppose I was 'programming' years ago then when I was using the VSL performance cube as their legato tool already had sliders back then for release time and legato threshold. Plus you're seriously mistaken if you're under the impression VSL is the only library which allows tweaking of legato parameters with knobs and sliders.


Actually, with "programming" I mean you have to set up your matrices.Other libraries come with pre-defined behaviours and articulations, they can be compared to the presets in VI Pro. Synchron Strings comes with presets and make it a bit easier.

Imagine you had no presets in VI Pro at all, so you had no vibrato control etc. and you had to set up (program) your matrices on your own. That's what I was talking about.


----------



## leonardo

In the end, the only really important point is this: how good is the result that you can achieve with the library? If the result is not satisfying then all the controls in the world have no sense. And here I have to say that for me the quality and "believability" of the old VSL string libraries despite all the controls and features of VI Pro 2 was easily surpassed by some more recent string libraries. Those newer string libraries may not have the same amount of articulations but for what they are able to do they are more convincing. Timbre and general sound may be a personal preference but believability is not. I would argue that if you play a well done mockup with CSS in the style it is able to do to a musically educated person then the probability that this person won't notice that it's not a real recording is quite high. The same - in my opinion - can't be said about the majority of VSL's (even official) string demos that one can find all around. Now I hoped that this would change with these initially highly promising Synchron Strings but until now I have to admit I'm very disappointed.


----------



## Critz

My question is: why are we all complaining about the failures of this library? My answer is that I was hoping I could rely on VSL as main library,finally, because their softwares make the whole thing far more smoother.
If 8Dio, just for make an example, would do something that bad with their newest library, we wouldn't even comment more than twice on that topic. We would just think "nah, not a library for me".
With VSL is different, we really would like to make it works, but it simply does not. And probably we are upset because at the end of the day, even if Paul is one of the best and kindest product managers of the world, VSL seems not to care about users feedbacks from the past.


----------



## stargazer

Critz said:


> My question is: why are we all complaining about the failures of this library? My answer is that I was hoping I could rely on VSL as main library,finally, because their softwares make the whole thing far more smoother.


This.
I was hoping for one string library to rule them all, and little less layering and combining bits and pieces from several other libraries.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Actually, with "programming" I mean you have to set up your matrices.Other libraries come with pre-defined behaviours and articulations, they can be compared to the presets in VI Pro. Synchron Strings comes with presets and make it a bit easier.
> 
> Imagine you had no presets in VI Pro at all, so you had no vibrato control etc. and you had to set up (program) your matrices on your own. That's what I was talking about.



It is still not true that VSL is so different. It x-fades between samples, just like any other library. Just because VSL didn't do all the setting up for you, like most other libraries. In Hollywood Strings, Spitfire etc etc., you can x-fade between non-vib and vib. It is true that doing matrices in VSL adds ultimate flexibility -- e.g. you can x-fade between a marcato and a sustain, or add a marcato on top of a staccato etc etc. - endless posibilities. But most of those USEFUL possibilities are taken care of in the other libraries for you.

And the discussion right now is not about any exotic combination of staccato-trill-flautando-tremolo-sustain you might come up. It is about the out of the box SOUND of things like regular sustain/legato, staccato etc. And VSL doesn't behave any differently here than any other library.


----------



## ctsai89

stargazer said:


> This.
> I was hoping for one string library to rule them all, and little less layering and combining bits and pieces from several other libraries.



Exactly. I would hate to see anymore suggestions on we should get this or that library just for the sake of layering. That's pretty stupid considering in a day it's going to be 2018 and if we stilll had to layer to combine bits and pieces spending thousands on just string libraries then this sample library thing really haven't made any progress


----------



## Erik

Herewith a rendition of a composition of Stephen Barton _South by South West_. It served as piece for a few http://eotte.blogspot.nl/2011/12/south-by-southwest-for-vsl-hs-and-other.html (comparison tracks in 2011 on my blog). That seems a lifetime ago now.
This piece is very demanding for a library since it needs many articulations and transparence, due to the tempo and polyphonic texture.

But now for the Synchron Strings,_ as they are_ now. I used only the Room-mix here. It was made in Cubase with a new Expression Map for the library and for me it was a delight to work with.
I am very curious what their Synchron player has to offer, but for now, why not give it a try?

I am very much aware of how this library has been _treated _here, nevertheless I would like to offer my contribution (at my own risk). I hope you'll enjoy this very energetic piece anyway: due to or despite this VSL library. Personally I think that piece and library have a match here.

BTW: no further verb. The col legno in the first bars in vl1 are from VSL Orchestra Strings (a strange omission in Synchron). Legato passages in the violas are for the time being from DS. The both have been placed in MIR Synchron.


----------



## Eptesicus

The sneak peaks of performance samples upcoming con moto string library legato sound miles better than the demos of the legato in this so far :(.


----------



## Saxer

Soundwise the best demo so far!


----------



## Guy Bacos

The Bee (other synchron strings demo, repetition notes, and pizz)


----------



## Paul T McGraw

@Erik really great work. Sounds wonderful.


----------



## C-Wave

@Erik
OK, may I say, the best demo for Synchron Strings so far, period.
..and strangely enough this is probably going to be the point of attack of naysayers, a great demo of how easily it can integrate with other libraries, effortless! and without Synchron Player? Wow!
and Legato is not everything to be looked for in a library ? hmmm


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Guy Bacos said:


> The Bee (other synchron strings demo, repetition notes, and pizz)



Fantastic! It seems that once again you have amazed me with your composing chops. As to the library, it sounds really, really good to me. And the dynamic range is colossal. You really shine when you do one of these "character" pieces, yes the Bee is a character. I have no idea if a "character" piece is the right terminology or not. But, as a Guy Bacos fan, here is another of his pieces that I would also call a "character" piece called "A Springtime Caper."

https://app.box.com/s/ttt2jsr1qiyyb3aiy5ayp0bo3j70wrx1

"Springtime Caper" has nothing to do with Synchron Strings, but it is all VSL, and I just wanted to share it as an example of Guy's ability. OK, I'm done.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Hmm..I listen to it too and find it very midi-ish...I like the composition and originality..oh I don´t know I would wish to say something good here but I can´t :( For me it doesn´t sound that good.. (Erik Demo). 
The Shorts sound though great..Guy Bacos Demo.


----------



## maestro2be

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hmm..I listen to it too and find it very midi-ish...I like the composition and originality..oh I don´t know I would wish to say something good here but I can´t :( For me it doesn´t sound that good..



Which one?


----------



## Paul T McGraw

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hmm..I listen to it too and find it very midi-ish...I like the composition and originality..oh I don´t know I would wish to say something good here but I can´t :( For me it doesn´t sound that good..



I love your work, but whatever it is you are hearing that makes it sound "midi-ish" I just do not hear. But, I suppose that is why there are at least 3 or 4 major developers. To each his own I guess.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

maestro2be said:


> Which one?


just edited my post..I like guys demo a lot more because it sounds much more musical, but I guess it is Guys expertise also..I like the shorts from synchron. BUt the longs and the rest, and this demo from Erik was very midish for me. Don´t want to say at that point if that is synchron or Erik..


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Paul T McGraw said:


> I love your work, but whatever it is you are hearing that makes it sound "midi-ish" I just do not hear. But, I suppose that is why there are at least 3 or 4 major developers. To each his own I guess.



Hi Paul,
there are for me gazillions of spots in his demo which are man I hate it to say but which are bad. One spot for example are the fast lines at 52 sec - 1 min is horribly rendered, they sound so far from a descent impression that it burns my ear literally. And there are other spots. This piece has no dynamics at all. What is that at 1:06 min with that sustaining note on the Violins..just flat out dead. I am not sure but there is also a point where I say, it is important who is behind the library and does it. When I listen to Guys demo..man..Guys demos here are by far the best even with a library which seems to have issues. Because Guy knows how to phrase for strings and he knows how string players would really perform something. So I don´t like Eriks demo not because I find the composition boring but because it doesn´t show that Erik knows how to write and articulate for strings or he was in a rush or something else. I am not sure, I don´t know Eric, so I don´t want to make my conclusions final. But the demo has no musicality at all for me.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Paul T McGraw said:


> https://app.box.com/s/ttt2jsr1qiyyb3aiy5ayp0bo3j70wrx1
> 
> "Springtime Caper" has nothing to do with Synchron Strings, but it is all VSL, and I just wanted to share it as an example of Guy's ability. OK, I'm done.



Ha!! Hadn't listened to this for 10 years. Poor clarinetist though, needs huge lungs....


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Guy Bacos said:


> Ha!! Hadn't listened to this for 10 years.



It would make a great encore piece, but most mortals would have to slow it down I think.


----------



## maestro2be

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> just edited my post..I like guys demo a lot more because it sounds much more musical, but I guess it is Guys expertise also..I like the shorts from synchron. BUt the longs and the rest, and this demo from Erik was very midish for me. Don´t want to say at that point if that is synchron or Erik..



I just wanted to be sure because while I assumed you meant Erik's, I needed to be sure. Guy's sounds on a completely different level. It's musical, shows once again how spectacular the shorts are and in my opinion, he intelligently avoids using what I will call "the current problem patches". It certainly doesn't sound midi'sh to me.

If they can get all of this legato issue cleared up, we might be on to something here. The room sound and shorts are astounding and I own almost every competitor with the exception of Berlin and I prefer the room sound and shorts over all the rest. My opinion of course.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Paul T McGraw said:


> It would make a great encore piece, but most mortals would have to slow it down I think.



What is sad is, I remember once looking for the score and it's seems it's lost forever, probably in my old computer. which is also gone.


----------



## maestro2be

Guy Bacos said:


> What is sad is, I remember once looking for the score and it's seems it's lost forever, probably in my old computer. which is also gone.



Happened to me once in my past. All the more reason that today I make sure not only do I have backups in the house, but everything is in the cloud. It's a horrible feeling to know some things are gone forever.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Guy Bacos said:


> What is sad is, I remember once looking for the score and it's seems it's lost forever, probably in my old computer. which is also gone.



I suppose someone with a really great ear could transcribe it, but it would take forever as there are so many notes. I hope you are backing up your hard drive at this point. That is a lot of work to lose.


----------



## Guy Bacos

maestro2be said:


> Happened to me once in my past. All the more reason that today I make sure not only do I have backups in the house, but everything is in the cloud. It's a horrible feeling to know some things are gone forever.



Yes, I have a friend, synergy543, who's been reminding me and insisting I make back ups. I like to live on the edge...I may have to give in now.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Paul T McGraw said:


> I suppose someone with a really great ear could transcribe it, but it would take forever as there are so many notes. I hope you are backing up your hard drive at this point. That is a lot of work to lose.



I had sold some copies back then, but I'd need the FBI and CIA to retrace the buyers. Hey, if you're out there and purchased this score....


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> The Bee (other synchron strings demo, repetition notes, and pizz)


That one is a really nice composition, and a perfect demo for the library.
It seems, at the end of the day, that someone could be interested in having Synchron Strings for everything but legato.


----------



## stargazer

The shorts are top notch, and I love the flautandos!
I’m gonna reach out for those before my SF flautando usual suspects; SSS, SCS, Loegria, Tundra etc.


----------



## Sovereign

Critz said:


> That one is a really nice composition, and a perfect demo for the library.
> It seems, at the end of the day, that someone could be interested in having Synchron Strings for everything but legato.


Very nice demo by Guy showing off the shorts, it's the only reason keeping me from deleting Synchron.


----------



## ctsai89

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hmm..I listen to it too and find it very midi-ish...I like the composition and originality..oh I don´t know I would wish to say something good here but I can´t :( For me it doesn´t sound that good.. (Erik Demo).
> The Shorts sound though great..Guy Bacos Demo.



Could it be because you're too spoiled by spitfire? I know I probably am....


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Guy Bacos said:


> The Bee (other synchron strings demo, repetition notes, and pizz)



Lifeless, synthy, sounds like a Sibelius playback, and obviously made with the worst string library known to man.

Joking aside - what a great piece - writing and sound.


----------



## FriFlo

Ok, I have just had my first play through the full library as it is currently available. These are my thoughts after play through some patches for an hour.
The legatos are not as bad as I had thought, most are useful. The slurred legato is pretty good IMO. To play very expressive lines it is rather the sustains, which miss some liveliness to create real soaring lines. With the mod wheel you can bring in some liveliness, it still doesn't sing. The fast legato is good, but doesn't work in all registers of the instruments equally. On high dynamics the attacks become to obvious so that it doesn't have a legato appeal anymore. The slow legato works well for some things, I suppose the problem with the early demos is that the very subtle legato transitions get lost in the mix with other instruments - that is what probably many people wondered wether there are any transitions in some places. Altogether, legato and sustains offer some good and usable patches, but there are to many other good libraries out there which offer more tools to get better, more musical results. Of course this is just my first impression and you would have to try and compare. What I really like is that there are really quiet (ppp) sustains. I would say that Synchron strings is probably the best string library I know for really quiet moments (hey, here we have the first positive thing about it!).
On the shorts, I was a little bit disappointed, although I thought they were pretty stellar from the demos! The thing is, part of them are ... the lower dynamics only miss a little livelyness/uneveness. This is probably due to cutting them to tight, which leads to great playability. On the higher dynamics this does not work for me at all! If you hit a chord with higher velocity it just sounds unnatural. I am not sure about it but I think it is also mainly due to cutting them to tight. Further, there is almost no noticeable difference between the super shorts and the shorts ... what a waste of memory! They should have done really different techniques here, like staccato vs. spiccato and a noticeable difference in length. That would have been way more useful!
Altogether, I don't regret getting the standard edition, but that is only because I bought it in spite of all the flaws I anticipated. It will certainly not become my main string library at this point, but there is hope they can improve it (reediting the shorts and hopefully record some extra stuff). As it is, it will be useful to me in combination with other libraries, as there are some things to like about it:
Great tone (Synchron stage sounds phenomenal!), very good for quiet stuff (even on its own), great playability (minus the stuff that just doesn't sound realistic at all, like the stronger shorts), good consistency and not to wet (always a good match to mix with a wetter library like OT). If anybody is kind of undecided, it is a pretty low price right now, has useful stuff in it and there is hope, VSL will come to their senses. But I would definitively not recommend it to someone who doesn't already have a couple of good string libraries ...


----------



## Guy Bacos

Guy Bacos said: ↑
The Bee (other synchron strings demo, repetition notes, and pizz)



Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Lifeless, synthy, sounds like a Sibelius playback, and obviously made with the worst string library known to man.



I know, but I tried.


----------



## novaburst

leonardo said:


> in my opinion - can't be said about the majority of VSL's



Great thing about life is we love to make our options known, another great thing is we don't need to live by other Peoples opinions.


----------



## FriFlo

omiroad said:


> It makes me want Synchron Percussion at the least...


For sure! I already got it! I think all the negativity in this thread just stems from people who had such high expectations in the Synchron line. With the Percussion they met these, with the strings they missed by quite a margin. I do not envy them as there probably is very high pressure lasting on them to do the next great step ...


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Great review by FriFlo.

I started to play a bit as well. For me the legatos are horrible (sorry!), the intervals/transitions should definitely be longer. It's nearly the same system behind it like in the "old" libraries: (slow), standard, fast and slurred. We already have slurred patches in the current libraries, but they are not mentioned on the VSL website and in the manuals, they were meant as an add-on, as far as I remember. I can't hear any re-invention so far. Other libraries sound much more convincing.

The longs, flautandos, trems and pizzis are good, I'm not a big fan of the staccatos. I agree, they should have sampled spiccatos as well, and, way more vibrato. Actually, in my opinion, for the prize there are too few articulations. Take CSS, for example, they have harmonics, col legnos and, at least, a simulation of con sordino.

What I noticed, is, that the very low dynamics sound really good in fact, even the legatos in some way. On the VSL website they talk about the room as an instrument (see Synchron Percussion), so this is true.


----------



## novaburst

ctsai89 said:


> Could it be because you're too spoiled by spitfire? I know I probably am....





AlexanderSchiborr said:


> l, but I guess it is Guys expertise a



Being skillful and knowing what to do take a library a very long way.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

FriFlo said:


> For sure! I already got it! I think all the negativity in this thread just stems from people who had such high expectations in the Synchron line. With the Percussion they met these, with the strings they missed by quite a margin. I do not envy them as there probably is very high pressure lasting on them to do the next great step ...


I had such high expectations, too. But I can expect from a new library (that wants to re-invent legato) that it would be better than the competitors' one, or, at least, at the same level. Do they have a different thinking of what makes a legato real? I guess so.

Are we all spoilt by all the other libraries? I don't know. Unfortunately, I don't play a string instrument, so I can't judge on the legato myself, but the others sound far more superior. Is their legato the real thing?


----------



## Critz

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Is their legato the real thing?



Wait...I got it. They wrote they re-invented the legato. We all thought that means they found out a more realistic way to reproduce the real legato, but we were wrong! That means they re-invented the legato from scratch!!! This is a new kind of legato that does not exist in nature.


----------



## Saxer

Guy Bacos said:


> The Bee (other synchron strings demo, repetition notes, and pizz)


Great work! Much fun to listen to!


----------



## Guy Bacos

I'm working on a horror genre demo with synchron strings, hope to have that soon.


----------



## heisenberg

ka00 said:


> I wanted to compare the Synchron Strings flautando patch to others that I own. Was looking to compare the sound and how much the dynamics of the flautando patches could be modulated without sounding like simply a volume adjustment.
> 
> So here's a comparison of the Synchron Strings Flautando patch to some others... it might prove good test material.
> 
> 1. Synchron Strings Ensemble (Main L+R and Close mics)
> 2. Spitfire Chamber Strings Ensemble (Close and Tree mics)
> 3. Spitfire Symphonic Strings MULTI (Close and Tree mics)
> 4. Spitfire Symphonic Strings Ensemble (Close and Tree mics)
> 5. Spitfire Albion II Loegria (Close and Tree mics)
> 6. Spitfire Albion V Tundra (Close and Tree mics)
> 
> Note: All algorithmic and convolution reverbs in these patches are disabled




Really useful ka00 to have these six flautando patches compared regardless of the original intent which was to place VSL's new library in context of the others with regard to this patch. I am sure others will find this immensely useful. Thanks!!


----------



## FriFlo

omiroad said:


> Not constructive.


Correct! That is why from now on it will be more valuable to add your thoughts - positive and negative - to this thread:
https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t48159-Synchron-is-the-best#post268481
The more people (especially those who actually bought the library) who chime in there offering a respectful but honest criticism, the more likely VSL will consider this and hopefully steer their vessel into a better direction. Jimmy Hellfire made a start in spilling some salt there, I joined and the more other people give their constructive feedback, the more likely is it gonna influence the future of the Synchron line. Please be respectful, though, as this highly increases the chances of getting heard!


----------



## Sovereign

ka00 said:


> I wanted to compare the Synchron Strings flautando patch to others that I own. Was looking to compare the sound and how much the dynamics of the flautando patches could be modulated without sounding like simply a volume adjustment.


1st and 3rd sound the best to me.


----------



## Sovereign

Jimmy, I'm going to lift a quote from that other thread as it would sidetrack the discussion there. You wrote:



> The legati of many string libraries today are exaggarated. For example, even the standard, normal speed legato in Cinematic Studio Strings is actually VERY slurred. Same as with many other aspects of today's life, apparently some musical characteristics need to be almost comedically over-sold to be noticed.


Ah no, I cannot agree with this. It's not "very slurred' nor exaggerated, it's how the orchestra actually plays. Listen to the Desplat example I posted earlier and which CCS can almost perfectly imitate. Surely you're not suggesting the string players are comedically exaggerating when playing a score? That doesn't make sense. Plus, load up the slurred patch VSL provides and play the intervals in an octave, then do the same with CSS, the slurring is way more pronounced and overdone in Synchron than in CSS.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Sovereign said:


> Jimmy, I'm going to lift a quote from that other thread as it would sidetrack the discussion there. You wrote:
> 
> 
> Ah no, I cannot agree with this. It's not "very slurred' nor exaggerated, it's how the orchestra actually plays. Listen to the Desplat example I posted earlier and which CCS can almost perfectly imitate. Surely you're not suggesting the string players are comedically exaggerating when playing a score? That doesn't make sense. Plus, load up the slurred patch VSL provides and play the intervals in an octave, then do the same with CSS, the slurring is way more pronounced and overdone in Synchron than in CSS.



What I mean is that the standard, normal legato in CSS is actually a very slurred legato already. The library actually doesn't have a "clean" legato variant. It also doesn't have a vibrato that isn't almost histrionic. Those are not juding statements, I'm just observing. I love the library.

I do think there is some truth to the idea that sometimes people learn to expect overpronounced effects in sample libraries. And this Hollywood scoring is schmalzy business.


----------



## Casiquire

Thanks to FriFlo for what seems like a very fair assessment of the library as it looks today!


----------



## Eptesicus

JP SS

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jp-ss-mp3.11045/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## erica-grace

That does not sound very good at all. What mic positions were those? Seems like it needs more mics added to it, that are more ambient. Second, there must be more that can be done to "massage" the midi data to get it to sound better.


----------



## Austin Haynes

I really enjoy the sound of Synchron Strings 1 here:


----------



## Critz

Austin Haynes said:


> I really enjoy the sound of Synchron Strings 1 here:



As usual, nice timbre, but melodies sound midish. And it's not only about legato transitions. As several users suggested those sustained notes aren't capable of sing.


----------



## NoamL

IMO there is a *small* design misconception in this library. It may explain why people are hearing this as "MIDI-ish".

In the cello video (which has some very impressive sounds, I love the flautandos) Paul says that because they have sampled 8 dynamic layers, it is possible to play the library without using "velocity crossfade" (aka CC1) at all. He then plays a passage with varying dynamics based purely on how hard he presses the keys:



I suppose the advantage of this approach is that you don't have all the audio headaches that come from crossfading and matching samples. And, it's true that with 8 layers you have a high resolution of dynamic range. But there's an issue: each note has *fixed and constant dynamics throughout its length*.

In that context, please consider *what I wrote* to @jamwerks earlier:



jamwerks said:


> Strings basically get sound with I'd say 3 elements: bow speed, bow weight & left hand vibrato.





NoamL said:


> I was never a great cellist but I think there is more to it... Bow speed and vibrato are *modulating all the time and are not decided on a fixed note-by-note basis.* Those subtle changes are utterly contingent on the place a note occupies inside a musical phrase. Samples can only roughly imitate this with "arcs", "cresc" etc. - a particular program of modulated bow speed, weight and vibrato has been recorded - but again this is recorded note-by-note. Something as simple as a unified crescendo _across a series of notes_ is* impossible to recreate in VI without crossfading* between different layers of samples.



What Paul shows here is the same approach used by *EWQLSO from fourteen years ago!!* In both cases a note has fixed dynamics throughout its length based on how hard you press a key. The only difference is Synchron Strings has twice as many layers.

Most developers still use this approach for short notes. That is for a very good reason though. Short notes of all kinds on strings (jeté, spiccato, staccato, and even fortepiano) are created with one unified motion of the bow; they have no time to develop interior motion and dynamic nuances based on modulated bowing. Just like woodwind instruments create these notes with one unmodulated "blast" of breath. For that reason, triggering these samples with velocity is wholly appropriate.

But for long notes, this approach is long since obsolete. The longer the note is held, the more obvious it is that it is *"Musically Flat"* and is not relating to the previous and successor notes in a phrase. If you listen closely to what Paul is playing you can hear this. To me, these dynamics sound like a "staircase" instead of smooth cresc/dim. IMO this can be heard in some of the demos as well.

Now, you don't have to use this approach. But IMO, the fact that it is suggested in the walkthrough vide shows a disconnect from what other developers have been innovating. Everyone can have their own opinion, but in my view, the CC1 approach has completely obsoleted the velocity approach.


----------



## Critz

Bjt


NoamL said:


> IMO there is a *small* design misconception in this library. It may explain why people are hearing this as "MIDI-ish".
> 
> In the cello video (which has some very impressive sounds, I love the flautandos) Paul says that because they have sampled 8 dynamic layers, it is possible to play the library without using "velocity crossfade" (aka CC1) at all. He then plays a passage with varying dynamics based purely on how hard he presses the keys:
> 
> 
> 
> (the advantage of this approach, though not stated explicitly by Paul, is that you don't have all the audio headaches that come from crossfading and matching samples: every note he played is an "actual" sample.)
> 
> It's true that with 8 layers you have a high resolution of dynamic range, but the problem with this approach is each note has *fixed and constant dynamics throughout its length*.
> 
> In this context, please consider *what I wrote* to @jamwerks earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Paul shows here is the same approach used by *EWQLSO from fourteen years ago!!* In both cases a note has fixed dynamics throughout its length based on how hard you press a key. The only difference is Synchron Strings has twice as many layers.
> 
> Most developers still use this approach for short notes. That is for a very good reason though. Short notes of all kinds on strings (jeté, spiccato, staccato, fortepiano, ricochet) are created with one unified motion of the bow; they have no time to develop interior motion and dynamic nuances based on modulated bowing. For that reason, triggering these samples with velocity is wholly appropriate.
> 
> But for long notes, this approach is long since obsolete. The longer the note is held, the more obvious it is that it is *"Musically Flat"* and is not relating to the previous and successor notes in a phrase. If you listen closely to what Paul is playing you can hear this. To me, these dynamics sound like a "staircase" instead of smooth cresc/dim. IMO this can be heard in some of the demos as well.



There's a difference between EWSO and Synchron. Sustained notes in EWSO had a inner expression. There was a natural expression recorded by players during sampling (change in the dynamic and vibrato intensity, that's how a library sings). 
Synchron strings sustained notes has the usual flat approach of VSL.
Also, the problem we have this time, is that with WET samples we cannot play that much with the velocity xfade, because at low values you are basically reducing the volume not only for the sample, but for the hall too. If you change the value too quickly you have an unnatural decay.


----------



## Sovereign

Austin Haynes said:


> I really enjoy the sound of Synchron Strings 1 here:



Do you want an honest opinion or do you want me to sugar-coat it?


----------



## Sovereign

Critz said:


> As usual, nice timbre, but melodies sound midish. And it's not only about legato transitions. As several users suggested those sustained notes aren't capable of sing.


Well, according to the author of that piece, Synchron is the best thing since sliced bread.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

No greater Love is a nice piece and surely does have some nice moments with the synchron strings. The orchestral Harp sounds like coming from a gigantic trashcan though. So what can I say to the strings there: I like it. Some spots are again revealing a bit of the problems what I don´t like with the transitions but the tone is nice. Noam had really some good thoughts about the design concept imo. VSL could sample for an expansion some more "expressivo" longs and maybe "a overthought" performance legato concept. So that could fix a lot of things. SO they could offfer Synchron Stage 1 for basic stuff and the 2nd volume for the more advanced stuff.

Can SS do this kind of stuff? 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ffbe3ld4v5syqu/Alexander_BO_STRINGS.mp3?dl=0


----------



## ctsai89

Sovereign said:


> Well, according to the author of that piece, Synchron is the best thing since sliced bread.



Besides the legato transitions being midi ish as we all think so, there is some midi ish stuff going on with the tone as well. 

The cellos in the first 4 positions on D and A strings - extremely nasally it's like singing without the mouth open kind of sound. 

I'm very familiar with that sound and I call it midi/synthy because I used to compose on Sibelius 6. 

Spitfire or Berlin and CSS never has that sound. Were the cellos incorrectly recorded at the wrong spot or something?


----------



## novaburst

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Can SS do this kind of stuff?
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ffbe3ld4v5syqu/Alexander_BO_STRINGS.mp3?dl=0



That sounded very good, but I think it is a matter of the tools with the correct hands, as there are many good composers but when it comes to certain pieces they will struggle and that is with all library's.

So I will say of course under the right hands the clip you posted is a breeze with Synchron Strings even in its incomplete state.

Let me just reaffirm many of your pieces @AlexanderSchiborr are pretty complex, and note you use a lot of spit fire library's.

another user with the same library will struggle because they are doing it wrong, or just simply don't know what to do with the DAW, and midi, and software, and another key element is they are not prepared to invest the time to do it correct.


----------



## Sovereign

ctsai89 said:


> Spitfire or Berlin and CSS never has that sound. Were the cellos incorrectly recorded at the wrong spot or something?


I have no idea, I also think the recording engineer makes a big difference in the sound you get. 

But at this point I am starting to care less and less. I'm pretty convinced right now that VSL is not going to do anything with the criticism levelled at Synchron given the deafening silence so far. VSL fanboys, who apparently revel in their superb ability to create midi-ish sounding mockups from the year 2000, rushing to their defence is also not helping. Right now, I'd rather reinstall Hollywood Strings Diamond and undergo the pain of using Play again than continu to use a product which simply does not deliver.


----------



## novaburst

Austin Haynes said:


> I really enjoy the sound of Synchron Strings 1 here:




Nice piece @Austin Haynes, really put together well, the Synchron Strings sound beautiful, delicate and vibrant,
Thanks for posting.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

novaburst said:


> That sounded very good, but I think it is a matter of the tools with the correct hands, as there are many good composers but when it comes to certain pieces they will struggle and that is with all library's.
> 
> So I will say of course under the right hands the clip you posted is a breeze with Synchron Strings even in its incomplete state.
> 
> Let me just reaffirm many of your pieces @AlexanderSchiborr are pretty complex, and note you use a lot of spit fire library's.
> 
> another user with the same library will struggle because they are doing it wrong, or just simply don't know what to do with the DAW, and midi, and software, and another key element is they are not prepared to invest the time to do it correct.



Sure that is a fair point and I agree there.
If anybody would like to do something similiar with SS I would be happy to take a listen. I can also upload the midi notes for you guys. This short example was done with Berlin Strings ,and I used here a mix of close, decca Tree and surround micings. What I like on BS is the expressives with has a "dramatic" sound. It is of course a personal preference thing with liking other things but for me this is something I like a lot when it comes to strings. So has SS longs with a molto vibrato? Can SS do those kinds of fast runs?


----------



## ctsai89

Sovereign said:


> I have no idea, I also think the recording engineer makes a big difference in the sound you get.
> 
> But at this point I am starting to care less and less. I'm pretty convinced right now that VSL is not going to do anything with the criticism levelled at Synchron given the deafening silence so far. VSL fanboys, who apparently revel in their superb ability to create midi-ish sounding mockups from the year 2000, rushing to their defence is also not helping. Right now, I'd rather reinstall Hollywood Strings Diamond and undergo the pain of using Play again than continu to use a product which simply does not deliver.



well it's holiday week right now so time will tell if they really listened to the criticisms.

I don't know what it is with the people who think Synchron or other VSL products sounds good when I don't hear what they hear. 

But in terms of music and a lot of times with electronic music, when too much time is spent composing/producing it you lose good judgement on what sounds good or bad to your ears. 

VSL products sure takes a lot of parameters and time to use. So I'm just wondering if the "fanboys" who think VSL sound good suffer from having bad judgement due to having sat on computer composing/engineering for too long?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

@ctsai89 You mentioned Spifire Strings and that I am used to this good sound of it. Yes and No. I think you need also there to do a good amount of programming to inject some life. I surerly think they are great, but I also think the samples in SS are great. Spitfire has a very different sound and it lives from the ambience a lot which makes them silky and wide and big. Its this very typical movie Score sound for. I actual am back using my berlin Strings btw. because I am bit tired of the Spitfire sound (I like it a lot of course, but it is like Icecream..you have to change from time to time the flavor :D)


----------



## eli0s

@AlexanderSchiborr , can you post the midi file (or the score) for that extract, I'd like to give it a shot with CSS if you don't mind!

By the way, happy new year everybody, be well!


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

eli0s said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr , can you post the midi file (or the score) for that extract, I'd like to give it a shot with CSS if you don't mind!
> 
> By the way, happy new year everybody, be well!



Sure, give me 5 minutes..I am on my couch :D

Happy new year off course to every single one of you!


----------



## Piotrek K.

> But there's an issue: each note has *fixed and constant dynamics throughout its length*.



I pointed that one out on VSL forum. Maybe Synchron player will have something to compensate it. Maybe they invented some awesome "alive note" algorithm that we will see in Unicorn Player... I mean Synchron Player 

Anyway recently I finished my first SS piece (it is slow, a bit "textural" in sound) - first and last until new player and full library arrives to be precise. While I really dig the sound, I've had some problems making it sound the way I wanted to (because of those odd attacks etc.). But at least it doesn't sound midish to my ears. Although, what spooks me a bit is the fact that I could manipulate all those CC's more and more and more...


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

eli0s said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr , can you post the midi file (or the score) for that extract, I'd like to give it a shot with CSS if you don't mind!
> 
> By the way, happy new year everybody, be well!



https://www.dropbox.com/s/ytpv1x6yppux2qo/Strings_EX.mid?dl=0

Please delete the CC´s because they just work with BS.


----------



## eli0s

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ytpv1x6yppux2qo/Strings_EX.mid?dl=0
> 
> Please delete the CC´s because they just work with BS.


Tnx! I'll be back! :D


----------



## novaburst

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Sure that is a fair point and I agree there.
> If anybody would like to do something similiar with SS I would be happy to take a listen. I can also upload the midi notes for you guys. This short example was done with Berlin Strings ,and I used here a mix of close, decca Tree and surround micings. What I like on BS is the expressives with has a "dramatic" sound. It is of course a personal preference thing with liking other things but for me this is something I like a lot when it comes to strings. So has SS longs with a molto vibrato? Can SS do those kinds of fast runs?



Please upload the files, I would like to do something similar, not sure if I qualify because I have only standard version, so this surround, mix and so on will not be available to me.

Also please take into account fingering positions of each library, and recording stages, S S has gone for the pure sound and B S has gone for a dramatic sound baked in.

Must say that I have a lot of respect of B S they are among the best of them so there is not a lot of library's that can top there performance.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

novaburst said:


> Please upload the files, I would like to do something similar, not sure if I qualify because I have only standard version, so this surround, mix and so on will not be available to me.
> 
> Also please take into account fingering positions of each library, and recording stages, S S has gone for the pure sound and B S has gone for a dramatic sound baked in.
> 
> Must say that I have a lot of respect of B S they are among the best of them so there is not a lot of library's that can top there performance.



Yes, agreed. BS has this "thing" with their dramatic approach, you can also have a more restrained sound with them..without vibrato or the romantic vibrato. Also the Expansion A/B offer some more colors with the Sul Tasto Leg which is..imo unparalleled in emotion when it comes to string sampled sounds.

I already uploaded the midi file, see previous posts  Of course you qualify, everybody qualifies here, there is no elite who is only entitled to try out: Everybody regardless if amateur or pro. Just grab the file and experiment if you like !


----------



## Critz

The


AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Yes, agreed. BS has this "thing" with their dramatic approach, you can also have a more restrained sound with them..without vibrato or the romantic vibrato. Also the Expansion A/B offer some more colors with the Sul Tasto Leg which is..imo unparalleled in emotion when it comes to string sampled sounds.
> 
> I already uploaded the midi file, see previous posts  Of course you qualify, everybody qualifies here, there is no elite who is only entitled to try out: Everybody regardless if amateur or pro. Just grab the file and experiment if you like !



The BS soft sustain patch blows away Synchron patches. There's clearly something more. They claim BS samples are unprocessed, I hardly think so. Maybe it's just a matter of mic and preamps?
My question is, how do BS work with complex arrangment? I mean, all the noises and background presence in samples make me worry.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Critz said:


> The
> 
> 
> The BS soft sustain patch blows away Synchron patches. There's clearly something more. They claim BS samples are unprocessed, I hardly think so. Maybe it's just a matter of mic and preamps?
> My question is, how do BS work with complex arrangment? I mean, all the noises and background presence in samples make me worry.



Well..let me add: I equed the strings a bit and slammed a protection limiter over it and added a bit gain. With the EQ I did a little corrective eq around the 350 Hz mud, but I can also deliver a truely unprocessed version if you like. The idea behind my example was more to see how SS deals with extreme expression and dynamics. And yes they are not total clean, there are some scratches and a bit noise. I personally like that alot but I can understand there are also people who like that less.


----------



## Critz

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Well..let me add: I equed the strings a bit and slammed a protection limiter over it and added a bit gain. With the EQ I did a little corrective eq around the 350 Hz mud, but I can also deliver a truely unprocessed version if you like. The idea behind my example was more to see how SS deals with extreme expression and dynamics. And yes they are not total clean, there are some scratches and a bit noise. I personally like that alot but I can understand there are also people who like that less.


Sorry Alexander, I didn't have already the chance to listen to your example. My words were about my general thoughts about BS (the few things I know). 
The bit of scratches and noise can be very helpful for general realism and I think that when you clean samples too much there's a part of "deepness" that goes lost. But when you have several track like that running, and you are scoring for a movie or a game, these extra noises usually bother me (and the mix!).


----------



## eli0s

Ok, here it is:

I might overdid slightly, I don't know, different velocity layers and dynamics between libraries. I couldn't quite manage to get the timing of the high voices on the second half exactly as the original, because the midi file looks like it is off the grid, and CSS have this delay in legato samples, so I tried to compensate by ear. Hopefully, it's close enough! 

Different sound, that's for sure!

e.g. CSS + CSSS, with emphasis on the close mics and 3 sec hall reverb on a separate bus (-8 db for CSS, -6 db for CSSS)


----------



## Critz

eli0s said:


> Ok, here it is:
> 
> I might overdid slightly, I don't know, different velocity layers and dynamics between libraries. I couldn't quite manage to get the timing of the high voices on the second half exactly as the original, because the midi file looks like it is off the grid, and CSS have this delay in legato samples, so I tried to compensate by ear. Hopefully, it's close enough!
> 
> Different sound, that's for sure!
> 
> e.g. CSS + CSSS, with emphasis on the close mics and 3 sec hall reverb on a separate bus (-8 db for CSS, -6 db for CSSS)




BS >>>>>>> CSS

CSS, differentely from SS, it's a great product with a clear focus, and it became I think a better product than the productor's expectations. But at the same time I'm a bit sick of the owners that always want to compare CSS with every other library. You can't compare CSS to BS.. far too many Gbs of difference. Of course you may find a context when CSS is even better. But BS is capable of thing that are just impossible with CSS. Get over it (we are aslo quite OT here)!


----------



## Sovereign

eli0s said:


> Ok, here it is:
> 
> Different sound, that's for sure!


Nice, I like this one a lot.


----------



## eli0s

Critz said:


> BS >>>>>>> CSS
> 
> CSS, differentely from SS, it's a great product with a clear focus, and it became I think a better product than the productor's expectations. But at the same time I'm a bit sick of the owners that always want to compare CSS with every other library. You can't compare CSS to BS.. far too many Gbs of difference. Of course you may find a context when CSS is even better. But BS is capable of thing that are just impossible with CSS. Get over it (we are aslo quite OT here)!


Get over what? I haven't said anything about better libraries or putting any products on a scale :\
I just wanted to try how CSS manage difficult passages program/sound-wise.
Chill out


----------



## Critz

eli0s said:


> Get over what? I haven't said anything about better libraries or putting any products on a scale :\
> I just wanted to try how CSS manage difficult passages program/sound-wise.
> Chill out


Thia is a post about SS  . Alexander asked how SS would perform those passages, not CSS. 
The forum is plenty of thread about general comparison.


----------



## N.Caffrey

eli0s said:


> Ok, here it is:
> 
> I might overdid slightly, I don't know, different velocity layers and dynamics between libraries. I couldn't quite manage to get the timing of the high voices on the second half exactly as the original, because the midi file looks like it is off the grid, and CSS have this delay in legato samples, so I tried to compensate by ear. Hopefully, it's close enough!
> 
> Different sound, that's for sure!
> 
> e.g. CSS + CSSS, with emphasis on the close mics and 3 sec hall reverb on a separate bus (-8 db for CSS, -6 db for CSSS)



Really nice, I think I prefer it to the original one


----------



## eli0s

Critz said:


> Thia is a post about SS  . Alexander asked how SS would perform those passages, not CSS.
> The forum is plenty of thread about general comparison.


Ok, fair enough, but I asked him and got his permission about it.
I find no harm on having a variety of examples to compare various aspects of digital music production.
The same thing can be said for Christof's example comparison way back in this tread, the famous Jurassic Park theme, the flautando examples a few pages back etc.
They are online for constructive criticism. If you like Berlin String's sound over CSS in this particular example, that's great!  When-if we listen a take with SyS on this, we will have even more things to talk about!


----------



## Sovereign

eli0s said:


> When-if we listen a take with SyS on this, we will have even more things to talk about!


I don't think a fairly convincing version can be done with Synchron (or at least anything other than short notes). I'll let someone else prove me wrong.  Speaking of which, the fast legato patch in Synchron is supposed to have "6 variations" but these seem to have gone into hiding (or at least when I'm playing the keyboard). If they only meant single note repetitions that's another disappointment, and they sound rather mushy as well.


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


> To someone who has used Synchron Strings and the previous Silent Stage Strings, how do they compare to those? Is it a step up or down from them?


Two step down from Dimension Strings


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

omiroad said:


> To someone who has used Synchron Strings and the previous Silent Stage Strings, how do they compare to those? Is it a step up or down from them?


Yes, definitely down from Appassionata Strings as well.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

omiroad said:


> To someone who has used Synchron Strings and the previous Silent Stage Strings, how do they compare to those? Is it a step up or down from them?



Can't speak for DS - I don't have those - but compared to the others, soundwise it's a huge step forward.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

omiroad said:


> Kinda conflicting, but I'm guessing it's a sound quality vs performance quality tradeoff...



It shouldn't be however. They just didn't get the legato patches right. I'm not even sure if something went "wrong" or if they simply thought what they were doing is the way to go.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> Two step down from Dimension Strings



So i wonder what would be the point of synchron strings then. For the sake of making money, they used a bit of the hype from their older products, I guess once you download it the money is non refundable.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

omiroad said:


> A confirmation from VSL about this would be nice. Maybe a recut...


Yes, indeed. And about the Synchron Player.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

ctsai89 said:


> So i wonder what would be the point of synchron strings then. For the sake of making money, they used a bit of the hype from their older products, I guess once you download it the money is non refundable.


You mean that you can give products back? At least they allow re-selling their libraries. But yes I admit..that shouldn´t be an option that you buy their latest newest installment just to realize that you are better with Appasionata strings or even Dimension strings..?

@anybody else: Still curious how SS can deal with my midi example.


----------



## Casiquire

omiroad said:


> A confirmation from VSL about this would be nice. Maybe a recut...



Or a whole new sampler 



ctsai89 said:


> So i wonder what would be the point of synchron strings then. For the sake of making money, they used a bit of the hype from their older products, I guess once you download it the money is non refundable.



Thought they had a thirty-day refund policy?


----------



## Eptesicus

Sovereign said:


> Do you want an honest opinion or do you want me to sugar-coat it?



Reading the comments on the official vsl site about it is......alarming.

The strings sound incredibly fake (this is not a comment on the composition, simply on the sound of the strings).

From my own play with Synchron, i don't think it is very reflective of what it can do.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Yes, definitely down from Appassionata Strings as well.


Actually, I mean the sound of SS is gorgeous, but the legato issue (if it's an issue anyway?) is a problem. I like about Appassionata Strings that they are detuned and sound closer to the competition. I think the "sterile" sound (which was discussed at the begnning of this thread) is another issue, in my opinion, but it's subjective.


----------



## Critz

It's impossible to do a comparison right now..Synchron is missing legato patches for some sections as you know (So, sorry if I did half of the already short but very cool excerpt by @AlexanderSchiborr).
This is Synchron and Dimensions. Let's say 50/50. The fact is that with Dimensions I could go on tweaking and getting a 2x better results than that one. That's why Synchron is 2 steps down.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/strings_as_vsl-mp3.11060/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Critz

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Actually, I mean the sound of SS is gorgeous, but the legato issue (if it's an issue anyway?) is a problem. I like about Appassionata Strings that they are detuned and sound closer to the competition. I think the "sterile" sound (which was discussed at the begnning of this thread) is another issue, in my opinion, but it's subjective.


Appassionata is 12 Gbs. Synchron Standard 200 and still miss legato patches for 3 sections...so it's going to be most likely 250 gbs.
As @ctsai89 said, I wonder what's the goal of Synchron Strings in the minds of VSL team.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Eptesicus said:


> From my own play with Synchron, i don't think it is very reflective of what it can do.


I didn't quite get this, what do you mean by this?


----------



## Sovereign

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I didn't quite get this, what do you mean by this?


I think it means that William Kersten is not the great midi mockup artist he thinks he is.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Critz said:


> It's impossible to do a comparison right now..Synchron is missing legato patches for some sections as you know (So, sorry if I did half of the already short but very cool excerpt by @AlexanderSchiborr).
> This is Synchron and Dimensions. Let's say 50/50. The fact is that with Dimensions I could go on tweaking and getting a 2x better results than that one. That's why Synchron is 2 steps down.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/strings_as_vsl-mp3.11060/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Dimension sound pretty descent. I actually like it.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> Appassionata is 12 Gbs. Synchron Standard 200 and still miss legato patches for 3 sections...so it's going to be most likely 250 gbs.
> As @ctsai89 said, I wonder what's the goal of Synchron Strings in the minds of VSL team.



Short answer: to make money.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

ctsai89 said:


> Short answer: to make money.



How condemnable!


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

ctsai89 said:


> Short answer: to make money.



Which is totally fine to do


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> Short answer: to make money.


I wouldn't enter this kind of talk. I mean, every company here work for the money. The big money possibly. Most of them works for money and passion. VSL is indeed passion too imo.
Let's talk about Dimension Strings. Do you have any idea how risky it was to develop such a library? A section of strings playing together but recording players separately. A large number of articulations, a good amount of rr.
They were pretty sure it would have work because of the humanizing and also due MIR. In my opinion the succeded with that library, but people didn't get into it. So that VI PRO 2 was already incapable of deal properly with the Dimension Series. I suppose they never managed that out because there wasn't enough money incoming from Dimension Series.
Meanwhile a lot of users keep purchasing the Special Edition (newbe users), and semi-pro and enthusiastic users prefer Kontakt libraries since years.
This Synchron Series has no passion and definitely no innovations.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Critz said:


> Meanwhile a lot of users keep purchasing the Special Edition (newbe users), and semi-pro and enthusiastic users prefer Kontakt libraries since years.


I started the whole sample thing with Special Edition one year ago and it's the best you can get for that price, in my opinion.


----------



## Critz

I'm not 100% sure about that (that is the best think you can get for the price, if you mean the Special Edition complete), but you post renforce my point: VSL keep making more money with the very old stuff, so there's no real interest in developing something new. They tried some years ago with the Dimension Series and it's been a failure.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Critz said:


> This Synchron Series has no passion and definitely no innovations.


When they took the risk for the Dimension Series, why not now for the Synchron Series? Maybe there are some innovations coming with Synchron Player, I'm still hoping a little bit. Maybe they laugh up their sleeves and say, "Let them talk... Synchron Player will make everyone flabbergasted."


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Critz said:


> I'm not 100% sure about that (that is the best think you can get for the price, if you mean the Special Edition complete), but you post renforce my point: VSL keep making more money with the very old stuff, so there's no real interest in developing something new. They tried some years ago with the Dimension Series and it's been a failure.


It's just my opinion, it was my first sample purchase and I like it.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> They tried some years ago with the Dimension Series and it's been a failure.



It was?


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It was?


Of course I can't know, I don't have their balance sheet.
But I'm pretty conviced by that because of two main things:
- I encountered very few users that know about Dimension Series, outside VSL community
- For the first time VSL left to us an unsuitable sampler (VI Pro 2) to deal with Dimension Series
- I'm pretty sure VSL wanted to expand the Dimension Violin with some more special technique but they cutted out that project
- Even Guy Bacos almost never program with Dimension Series, not because Dimension is worst (actually is far better than previous libraries), but I suppose because VSL don't ask for it.
- it is proved that for the avarage VSL user Dimension Series is far too complicated to program.


----------



## ctsai89

Special edition and other Vsl products were what I considered before I got into the whole kontakt library business.

But one of the demo from special edition and a few other demoes from the symphonic cube also sounded very midi to my ears so I didn't pull the trigger. 

So I went with spitfire and I don't regret it besides sometimes I wonder if my life would've been easier if I had purchased Berlin instead


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> Of course I can't know, I don't have their balance sheet.
> But I'm pretty conviced by that because of two main things:
> - I encountered very few users that know about Dimension Series, outside VSL community
> - For the first time VSL left to us an unsuitable sampler (VI Pro 2) to deal with Dimension Series
> - I'm pretty sure VSL wanted to expand the Dimension Violin with some more special technique but they cutted out that project



So this boils down to: everyone who uses a VSL product is "the VSL community" (which is solely comprised of blind and deaf fanboys, I'm assuming correct?), and then some random assumptions.


----------



## erica-grace

Critz said:


> Of course I can't know, I don't have their balance sheet.
> But I'm pretty conviced by that because of two main things:
> - I encountered very few users that know about Dimension Series, outside VSL community
> - For the first time VSL left to us an unsuitable sampler (VI Pro 2) to deal with Dimension Series
> - I'm pretty sure VSL wanted to expand the Dimension Violin with some more special technique but they cutted out that project
> - Even Guy Bacos almost never program with Dimension Series, not because Dimension is worst (actually is far better than previous libraries), but I suppose because VSL don't ask for it.
> - it is proved that for the avarage VSL user Dimension Series is far too complicated to program.




Making these types of uneducated guesses (you admitted to not have their balance sheet) is just silly. And the five reasons you gave do not qualify as reasons at all.

Maybe from now on you should put a disclaimer in you posts regarding VSL. Whenever JohnG posts about EW, he adds - _note: I have received free proucts from EW in the past. _

You should put - _note: I really really do not like VSL and their products._


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> So this boils down to: everyone who uses a VSL product is "the VSL community" (which is solely comprised of blind and deaf fanboys, I'm assuming correct?), and then some random assumptions.


@Jimmy Hellfire you can't believe to my words, I honestely don't cry for that, even if I'm sorry you seem to have scant regard for me. But I would also point out you called me a Troll when I was severely criticizing Synchron Strings, and now you lead the Army of disgruntled users on VSL forum (and I respect you for that).


----------



## Critz

erica-grace said:


> Making these types of uneducated guesses (you admitted to not have their balance sheet) is just silly. And the five reasons you gave do not qualify as reasons at all.
> 
> Maybe from now on you should put a disclaimer in you posts regarding VSL. Whenever JohnG posts about EW, he adds - _note: I have received free proucts from EW in the past. _
> 
> You should put - _note: I really really do not like VSL and their products._


Oh really? I always praise for the VSL library I find useful and I use daily.
For example I just added a short example where Dimension Strings are (in my opinion) on pair with Berlin and CSS.

And I'm waiting for someone that could deny what I said. In the meanwhile you can believe me or not.


----------



## SGordB

Critz said:


> Of course I can't know, I don't have their balance sheet.
> But I'm pretty conviced by that because of two main things:
> .... - Even Guy Bacos almost never program with Dimension Series, not because Dimension is worst (actually is far better than previous libraries), but I suppose because VSL don't ask for it.



You piqued my curiosity with that claim. Actually, no one has more Dimension Strings demos on the VSL site than him - around _25_: https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Strings_Complete/Dimension_Strings_Bundle#!Demos


----------



## Critz

SGordB said:


> You piqued my curiosity with that claim. Actually, no one has more Dimension Strings demos on the VSL site than him - around _25_: https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Strings_Complete/Dimension_Strings_Bundle#!Demos


I think the large amount of them comes from the period when Dimensions were released. Of corse VSL put some efforts to advertise it at the beginning. 
Bye the way, my main point was another one. 
VSL stopped to raise the bar in sampling after Dimension.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Critz said:


> VSL stopped to raise the bar in sampling after Dimension.


I'm not so sure, this crazy amount of velocity layers is in some way "raise the bar". The thing is where is the innovation?


----------



## SGordB

Critz said:


> I think the large amount of them comes from the period when Dimensions were released. Of corse VSL put some efforts to advertise it at the beginning.
> Bye the way, my main point was another one.
> VSL stopped to raise the bar in sampling after Dimension.


I've assumed VSL (and other developers) commission all or most demos of a library around the time it's released.


----------



## Critz

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I'm not so sure, this crazy amount of velocity layers is in some way "raise the bar". The thing is where is the innovation?


I don't see innovation in that. Everybody can do that. The pont is that doing so you end up with a giant library. Also, it's clear that this larger amount of data doesn't improve the realism at all. Otherwise we wouldn't say here complaing the lack of realism and musicality of this library.


----------



## Critz

SGordB said:


> I've assumed VSL (and other developers) commission all or most demos of a library around the time it's released.


But Guy Bacos was still releasing demos for VSL (now he focus on Synchron of course).
Ask him what strings libraries did he use for the last 10 demos (not counting Synchron Strings demos).


----------



## SGordB

Critz said:


> But Guy Bacos was still releasing demos for VSL (now he focus on Synchron of course).
> Ask him what strings libraries did he use for the last 10 demos (not counting Synchron Strings demos).


You're missing my point. Is he or any other VSL demo producer being commissioned to write new demos for old products? I'm suggesting it's normal for him to have moved on to Synchron just as he would have moved on from Orchestral Strings to Appassionata to Dimension etc. In other words, I don't see anything to read into here per your comments.


----------



## SGordB

Critz said:


> But Guy Bacos was still releasing demos for VSL (now he focus on Synchron of course).
> Ask him what strings libraries did he use for the last 10 demos (not counting Synchron Strings demos).


If you're suggesting that, of late ("last 10 demos"), when Guy has to use VSL libs to write string parts - and he doesn't have to use Synchron - he avoids Dimension, that's a "testable hypothesis." Perhaps Guy will weigh in on that.


----------



## SGordB

To clear up unnecessary confusion: Critz was thinking of Bacal when he wrote “Bacos,” in particular based on this thread: https://vi-control.net/community/th...ece-in-the-synchron-stage.66949/#post-4160980


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## Casiquire

I wouldn't call the Dimension series a failure, Dimension Strings is one of the greatest string libraries. Maybe it didn't make quite enough money to keep expanding it, but that doesn't mean it's a failure. Most of those points are opinion, anecdotal, or speculation.

True, we've gone a bit off topic here. I think there's not much more to say until we see the full library.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> @Jimmy Hellfire you can't believe to my words, I honestely don't cry for that, even if I'm sorry you seem to have scant regard for me. But I would also point out you called me a Troll when I was severely criticizing Synchron Strings, and now you lead the Army of disgruntled users on VSL forum (and I respect you for that).


What's the point you're trying to make?

I called you a troll when you were trolling, which you continue to do at regular intervals. I do not "lead an army", and my own criticism of the library may strike you as a surpise because it doesn't fit in your childish black and white narrative.


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## stargazer

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> No greater Love is a nice piece and surely does have some nice moments with the synchron strings. The orchestral Harp sounds like coming from a gigantic trashcan though. So what can I say to the strings there: I like it. Some spots are again revealing a bit of the problems what I don´t like with the transitions but the tone is nice. Noam had really some good thoughts about the design concept imo. VSL could sample for an expansion some more "expressivo" longs and maybe "a overthought" performance legato concept. So that could fix a lot of things. SO they could offfer Synchron Stage 1 for basic stuff and the 2nd volume for the more advanced stuff.
> 
> Can SS do this kind of stuff?
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ffbe3ld4v5syqu/Alexander_BO_STRINGS.mp3?dl=0


Sounds good, except for the first runs.


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## AlexanderSchiborr

stargazer said:


> Sounds good, except for the first runs.


I like the sound of the runs. But let me know what in particular you don´t like or what could be improved. Thank you.


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## doubleattack

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I like the sound of the runs. But let me know what in particular you don´t like or what could be improved. Thank you.



The midi-sound of the first run was my impression too. I think it's generally hard for sample libs to perform such stuff convincingly - at least for my ears.


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## FabioA

doubleattack said:


> The midi-sound of the first run was my impression too. I think it's generally hard for sample libs to perform such stuff convincingly - at least for my ears.


I can feel the same for CSS.
I hopened the midi to test SS, so I saw midi events for the first run are not overlapping to trigger the run legato. It seems @AlexanderSchiborr was looking for a more pronounced attack (right?). I'm pretty sure layering another track with a "real" run will do the trick, thanks to the auto detuning of BS.


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## Simon Ravn

Austin Haynes said:


> I really enjoy the sound of Synchron Strings 1 here:




Totally lacking in dynamics/expression. And no legato feel. But that could be blamed on the composer/producer. And timbre-wise the cellos especially are not very nice sounding. Some EQ might be able to help it. But the general problem of lifelessness remains.


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## stargazer

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I like the sound of the runs. But let me know what in particular you don´t like or what could be improved. Thank you.


It doesn’t feel organic to me. A bit disconnected and with static velocity.


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## Sovereign

Simon Ravn said:


> Totally lacking in dynamics/expression. And no legato feel. But that could be blamed on the composer/producer. And timbre-wise the cellos especially are not very nice sounding. Some EQ might be able to help it. But the general problem of lifelessness remains.


And VSL is not going to fix what they consider an acceptable sound. They would have to redo half their library. Strange though, with so many examples (Berlin Strings, Spitfire, CSS, etc.) you'd think they would have a clue. In the end I don't care, I'll take my money elsewhere.


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## meradium

I think we can put this topic to rest.

Who knows, maybe some miracle will be happening with the new player released  The Synchron Percussion set is great. It took a lot of time to get used to - and still does - mainly because of how the player works. Maybe its the same with the strings, though I think it is quite a different story this time.

Just please stop bashing each other! That doesn't help anyone - though it tends to be quite entertaining at times.


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## Sovereign

For me it still ends on a positive note. I reinstalled Hollywood Strings Diamond today, had forgotten how good it sounds, way more to my liking than Synchron. Removed it years ago because of a dislike for Play and how sad it ran back then. With the advent of super-fast SSDs and a ton of memory it now seems to run just fine.


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## Simon Ravn

Sovereign said:


> And VSL is not going to fix what they consider an acceptable sound. They would have to redo half their library. Strange though, with so many examples (Berlin Strings, Spitfire, CSS, etc.) you'd think they would have a clue. In the end I don't care, I'll take my money elsewhere.



Agree. I was actually really hoping that this would be something special and that I would return to using VSL a lot more that I have been doing recently. They certainly have the technology and software in place.


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## Simon Ravn

Sovereign said:


> For me it still ends on a positive note. I reinstalled Hollywood Strings Diamond today, had forgotten how good it sounds, way more to my liking than Synchron. Removed it years ago because of a dislike for Play and how sad it ran back then. With the advent of super-fast SSDs and a ton of memory it now seems to run just fine.



Yeah it is still a great library. Have worked on a lot of projects where it was required that I only used Hollywood Strings so I have learned its strengths and weaknesses over time. They should redo the library with half size sections, that would be awesome for divisi/more intimate cues. I know it's not gonna happen of course


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## mcalis

Sovereign said:


> For me it still ends on a positive note. I reinstalled Hollywood Strings Diamond today, had forgotten how good it sounds, way more to my liking than Synchron. Removed it years ago because of a dislike for Play and how sad it ran back then. With the advent of super-fast SSDs and a ton of memory it now seems to run just fine.


Well, since Play 5 the loading times are much better and HWS truly is EW's best product in my view. Personally I don't mind using a track per articulation, but if you do, then just throw in the Sus keyswitch patch, the shorts mod speed patch, and one of the legato patches. That gives you most of HWS in just three patches. I think that, to this day, the sustains are unbeaten. They have a wide range , they're fairly dry, the vibrato control is smooth and the ability to determine the finger position is something I've started to use more and more. With help from the mics it's quite easy to place them wherever you like.

Now, I don't own SS but I was considering a purchase because I was keen to see what such a respected developer would do in a wet environment. To me, the sound is unfortunately lifeless. I don't mean it as an insult to say it sounds like noteperformer/sibellius playback , but that's what my ears are telling me and that, in my view, isn't worth 417 euros.

If someone likes this sound, more power to them. At the end of the day is just another tool, one that I don't see use for at this point. Personally I had hoped that they would've sampled multiple legato transitions between notes so you can actually alternate between two notes without machine gunning. This kind of alternating is fairly common in string writing yet I know of no library that can do it convincingly, but I digress.

Rather funny that both EW and VSL seem to have forgotten what legato means in their most recent offerings. Between both companies, I find myself liking their older stuff the most (2010-2012-ish). For new libraries I am looking more and more to smaller developers like Performance Samples, Embertone, Fracture Sounds, etc. I find the Performance Samples violin legato they posted on Soundcloud much more convincing and life-like while it's probably safe to assume that Mr. Blunk's budget pales in comparison to what VSL must have invested in SS.

All that said, I highly doubt VSL think the sound isn't so good. If they did, you'd expect them to find out earlier in production and to change course. Point being: the sound isn't gonna change. Maybe they can inject some life in their samples with LFO trickery or by oscillating ever so slightly between the surrounding dynamic layers (so if you strike a f sustain, it would fade in a tiny bit of the ff layer above and the mf layer below in oscillating fashion, which would make the note less static). Still, I don't think the sound can be altered that much. Even if they were to release the most amazing legato right now, I'd be unlikely to purchase due to the lifelessness of the samples.

Ofc, I hope they do improve and hope that VSL will prove me wrong, but at this point I am holding off.


----------



## Sovereign

mcalis said:


> Now, I don't own SS but I was considering a purchase because I was keen to see what such a respected developer would do in a wet environment. To me, the sound is unfortunately lifeless. I don't mean it as an insult to say it sounds like noteperformer/sibellius playback , but that's what my ears are telling me and that, in my view, isn't worth 417 euros.


Heh, I remember paying more than EUR 1000,- for Hollywood Strings Diamond, I just found out it's now 199,-. A bargain IMO. Yeah it runs way better (or seems to) on Play 5, I still had Play 4 lingering somewhere on my system.  The vibrato control is great, sounds way better and alive, compared to what Synchron offers.


----------



## Critz

Another big point that Synchron Series should have against other libraries is the fact that VSL owns the hall, the instruments (for percussion) and they have the same players at disposal. That means that if there's someone that could (a bit more easily) makes new recording to fix something, is VSL.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> Another big point that Synchron Series should have against other libraries is the fact that VSL owns the hall, the instruments (for percussion) and they have the same players at disposal. That means that if there's someone that could (a bit more easily) makes new recording to fix something, is VSL.



Very good point.


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## FriFlo

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Very good point.


I love the fact that you two finally agree on something!


----------



## Eptesicus

Finally had about half an hour to have a play after the holidays.

I am going to try and do a mock up (or at least arrangement as i don't have the music) of the Blue Planet 2 theme.

This is simply just soft lyrical vibrato legato for violin and cello and cello sustains soft, lyrical vibrato (so just three patches in total) and i did this in half an hour.

There is, i think, a lot of potential with this library but i admit the legato is troublesome. The main problem in my opinion is the attack of the note after the transition. It is too much! With some cc work in taking the velocity down at the start of each note things start to feel a lot more natural.

This is very rough and ready and just the first few bars for now but i will post more as i go. At the moment i have only downloaded the violins and cello's as i will just wait till everything else is ready and the synchron player is available.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/blue-planet-mp3.11069/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> Finally had about half an hour to have a play after the holidays.
> 
> I am going to try and do a mock up (or at least arrangement as i don't have the music) of the Blue Planet 2 theme.
> 
> This is simply just soft lyrical vibrato legato for violin and cello and cello sustains soft, lyrical vibrato (so just three patches in total) and i did this in half an hour.
> 
> There is, i think, a lot of potential with this library but i admit the legato is troublesome. Them main problem in my opinion is the attack of the note after the transition. It is too much! With some cc work in taking the velocity down at the start of each note things start to feel a lot more natural.
> 
> This is very rough and ready and just the first few bars for now but i will post more as i go. At the moment i have only downloaded the violins and cello's as i wil just wait till everything else is ready and the synchron player is available.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/blue-planet-mp3.11069/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Sounds good, but it took you half an hour to make this ? I think the idea is it shouldn't take you that long to fix, tweak, edit, ..etc. to produce something like this.


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## Eptesicus

muziksculp said:


> Sounds good, but it took you half an hour to make this ? I think the idea is it shouldn't take you that long to fix, tweak, edit, ..etc. to produce something like this.



Well considering i hadn't even really used it before and i've done a bit more (after the fade) within that half an hour it isnt as bad as it sounds 

I agree though, the legato is not instantly satisfying and takes a bit of work, which it shouldn't.

Sometimes it feels/sounds goods, then others it sounds odd.

I'm not sure what they have done but i hope it is something they can tweak/remedy as overall i think the sound and tone you will be able to get from this library could be very nice indeed. As i said the transitions just simply have too much attack which is what creates that midi-esque feel if you don't tweek it correctly.

Once we have the full patches with legato for all the sections i will fill it out, and that should hopefully make it sound more full/lush.


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## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> Well considering i hadn't even really used it before and i've done a bit more (after the fade) within that half an hour it isnt as bad as it sounds



Oh, I see. I thought you meant you spent half an hour editing it to get to sound right.


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## Markus Kohlprath

Sovereign said:


> Heh, I remember paying more than EUR 1000,- for Hollywood Strings Diamond, I just found out it's now 199,-. A bargain IMO. Yeah it runs way better (or seems to) on Play 5, I still had Play 4 lingering somewhere on my system.  The vibrato control is great, sounds way better and alive, compared to what Synchron offers.


I did listen to the demos of hollywood strings right after listening to the demos of synchron str. This was the last kick I needed not to press the buy button. It’s a pitty since I also hoped for a more effective solution to get good sounding strings but somehow vsl missed this opportunity as it appears. At least for now. 
And yes I also will give Hollywood Strings more love in the future.


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## Eptesicus

There are things that i think Synchron does better than HS (i own both) already. The multiple velocity layers in the shorts i think will come in very handy, and the quiet velocities really are fantastic.

I also think it handles very fast passages better, however in terms of expressive legato playing, Synchron is missing the mark, or at least making it very time consuming to sound _"right_" and as it stands HS is better there (along with having more articulations)


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## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> There are things that i think Synchron does better than HS (i own both) already. The multiple velocity layers in the shorts i think will come in very handy, and the quiet velocities really are fantastic.
> 
> I also think it handles very fast passages better, however in terms of expressive legato playing, Synchron is missing the mark, or at least making it very time consuming to sound _"right_" and as it stands HS is better there (along with having more articulations)



I'm confident that VSL will improve the expressive legato, and other legato related performances of VSL Synchron Strings as we move forward towards Feb., and they will also be releasing VSL Synchron Player during Feb., which will most likely add some additional improvements that the current VI-Pro 2 player is not well suited for, or maybe is unable to perform. 

I think the VSL development team is reading all the feedback regarding the weak Legato functionality of Synch. Strings, on this forum, the VSL forum, and other orch. composer forums, and have this on their high-priority list to improve.


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## Eptesicus

muziksculp said:


> I'm confident that VSL will improve the expressive legato, and other legato related performances of VSL Synchron Strings as we move forward towards Feb., and they will also be releasing VSL Synchron Player during Feb., which will most likely add some additional improvements that the current VI-Pro 2 player is not well suited for, or maybe is unable to perform.
> 
> I think the VSL development team is reading all the feedback regarding the weak Legato functionality of Synch. Strings, on this forum, the VSL forum, and other orch. composer forums, and have this on their high-priority list to improve.



Yes i am reserving my full judgement until everything is out, alongside the synchron player. 

At the moment my feelings are mixed as it has some really good points but also some drawbacks. Naturally, i think we are all disappointed with the legato, mainly because VSL have always been so good in that regard and they specifically said that it was "legato re-invented"!


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## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> Yes i am reserving my full judgement until everything is out, alongside the synchron player.
> 
> At the moment my feelings are mixed as it has some really good points but also some drawbacks. Naturally, i think we are all disappointed with the legato, mainly because VSL have always been so good in that regard and they specifically said that it was "legato re-invented"!



We just need to give them more time to improve the Legato functionality of Synchron Strings, given their expertise, and dedication to excellence, I'm super confident they will fix, or drastically improve this issue in the near future.

I'm not even bothering to install this library until I feel this has been fixed, and the Synchron Player is released. I have other String Libraries to keep me busy for now. We will always need a variety of Strings Libraries, even when Sychron Strings is all polished, and is working great, and I would also love to see more Sychron based Strings from VSL, i.e. Solo, Chamber, Sordino, ..etc.

So.. I feel this is just the first step in a long journey that VSL has ahead of it, things will keep on improving, what we need is a bit of patience, and understanding that this is a product in evolution, and is not finalized at this time.


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> We just need to give them more time to improve the Legato functionality of Synchron Strings, given their expertise, and dedication to excellence, I'm super confident they will fix, or drastically improve this issue in the near future.


I hope you are right, otherwise I wasted 400 bucks. But I do not share the same confidence that they will.


----------



## artomatic

ka00 said:


> Not to stray off topic, but while we're waiting for these legatos to be reinvented, I'm late in discovering CSS and it seems they've got the best sounding legatos I've ever heard (compared to Spitfire, Berlin Strings and Synchron Strings). Basically indistinguishable from the real thing in the examples I've found. Any reason not to purchase them?



No reason at all!


----------



## Guy Bacos

My prediction for 2018 is that synchron will produce the most impressive works.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> My prediction for 2018 is that synchron will produce the most impressive works.


Do You mean the Synchron Series or Synchron Strings?


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## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> Do You mean the Synchron Series or Synchron Strings?



Both


----------



## muziksculp

@Guy Bacos ,

Are you providing the VSL Development team with some valuable feedback on your thoughts, first impressions regarding Synch. Strings, and especially with regards to the current Legato functionality, i.e. it's weaknesses, and the need for them to improve it, ..etc.. imho your feedback to VSL is very valuable for them. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## artomatic

omiroad said:


> What is their stage like compared to Synchron?



I did not compare or thought of comparing the stage that Alex used to record CSS to VSL's Synchron. I just preferred the overall sound, ease of use and legato implementation of CSS - my personal pref here. I preordered SyS in November but I'm glad I cancelled early on when I heard the first few demos. Guy and Christoff did a marvelous job, as always, but bottom line, I did not like the overall sound (and legato, expressiveness, etc.) of the library. I love VSL's products. I own Dimension, Special Editions, Woodwinds, Appassionata, etc. but unfortunately, will not own this one. Hoping for an improved Synchron series post SyS.


----------



## Guy Bacos

omiroad said:


> Do you think the legato is focused on too much, Guy? Or do you think the Synchron Player or other updates will remedy this...



Partly that, yes, also demos will show more and more the great qualities of synchron. This is normal when something has a lot of depth, you can't show it all at once, and there is also a bit of a learning curve for everyone.


----------



## Guy Bacos

I can't tell you how many times in the past when I posted demos, and people who had dismissed VSL was saying: "Is this VSL?, sound's great!!"


----------



## Sovereign

Guy Bacos said:


> Partly that, yes, also demos will show more and more the great qualities of synchron. This is normal when something has a lot of depth, you can't show it all at once, and there is also a bit of a learning curve for everyone.


Good legato makes up half a library, it makes or breaks it.


Guy Bacos said:


> I can't tell you how many times in the past when I posted demos, and people who had dismissed VSL was saying: "Is this VSL?, sound's great!!"


Not me.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I think there is a certain tendency to get carried away in a certain kind of narrative too deep. That's just an aspect of modern internet communication and its progressively distorted feedback loops. In this particular case, I think way too much time is being spent listening to stupid little single note melody lines from Jurassic Park or whatever - as if it truly was some kind of universal litmus test for string libraries - and regurgitating the same verdicts over and over again until they oversaturate into something bigger than the truth. That's also why I chose to post my reservations in the VSL forums directly and stay away from this anyhow inflated bubble here for a while.

I think we already established that the legato patches aren't working out how one would have hoped. But all this racket about it kind of overshadows what else this library has to offer. Now all of a sudden, the disappointment over SyS suddenly made us realize that we actually never needed anything else but Hollywood Strings, the trusty old timer. I do own and like HS, but the notion does make me chuckle a bit.

Let's not forget that we're talking about a string _ensemble_ here and that there's more to a string library than noodling nursery rhyme type melodies from Hollywood films. I'm saying this because particularly, something apparently nobody is talking about is that SyS actually sounds quite sublime in chords and harmony. There's a lot to like there. And it sounds regal and believable, because it doesn't exhibit the excess "emotional" vibrato everyone seems to enjoy in single line melody patches, and thus produces a less comedic effect in big chords and rich harmony.

I realize it's probably less interesting for many, but the soft dynamics of this library are on another level.
Another thing that really impressed me was the clarity, depth and power of celli and basses in octaves, especially the shorts. There's something about it that I can't get out of, for example, CSS (which is in many ways my favorite string library). And most certainly not out of HS. The stage sound of SyS is something else.

As many others before it, this library has impressive strengths and glaring weaknesses (Spitfire anyone?). Perhaps over time, the weaknesses can be remedied. I'm not holding my breath. But what I'm trying to say is: even though the library isn't perfect, it failed to deliver in regards to some expectations, and might end up a huge disappointment for some, wonderful music can be made with it. Despite all the naysaying and recreational outrage.


----------



## Eptesicus

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I think there is a certain tendency to get carried away in a certain kind of narrative too deep. That's just an aspect of modern internet communication and its progressively distorted feedback loops. In this particular case, I think way too much time is being spent listening to stupid little single note melody lines from Jurassic Park or whatever - as if it truly was some kind of universal litmus test for string libraries - and regurgitating the same verdicts over and over again until they oversaturate into something bigger than the truth. That's also why I chose to post my reservations in the VSL forums directly and stay away from this anyhow inflated bubble here for a while.
> 
> I think we already established that the legato patches aren't working out how one would have hoped. But all this racket about it kind of overshadows what else this library has to offer. Now all of a sudden, the disappointment over SyS suddenly made us realize that we actually never needed anything else but Hollywood Strings, the trusty old timer. I do own and like HS, but the notion does make me chuckle a bit.
> 
> Let's not forget that we're talking about a string _ensemble_ here and that there's more to a string library than noodling nursery rhyme type melodies from Hollywood films. I'm saying this because particularly, something apparently nobody is talking about is that SyS actually sounds quite sublime in chords and harmony. There's a lot to like there. And it sounds regal and believable, because it doesn't exhibit the excess "emotional" vibrato everyone seems to enjoy in single line melody patches, and thus produces a less comedic effect in big chords and rich harmony.
> 
> I realize it's probably less interesting for many, but the soft dynamics of this library are on another level.
> Another thing that really impressed me was the clarity, depth and power of celli and basses in octaves, especially the shorts. There's something about it that I can't get out of, for example, CSS (which is in many ways my favorite string library). And most certainly not out of HS. The stage sound of SyS is something else.
> 
> As many others before it, this library has impressive strengths and glaring weaknesses (Spitfire anyone?). Perhaps over time, the weaknesses can be remedied. I'm not holding my breath. But what I'm trying to say is: even though the library isn't perfect, it failed to deliver in regards to some expectations, and might end up a huge disappointment for some, wonderful music can be made with it. Despite all the naysaying and recreational outrage.



Well said. I have only had the briefest of plays with it but i can tell that i will be able to write some great sounding stuff with it.

I think my brief blue planet example, whilst very quickly done and could do with more fine tuning (and the full string ensemble when it is ready) shows this. As you mentioned, chords and harmony do sound excellent.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Sovereign said:


> Good legato makes up half a library, it makes or breaks it.
> 
> Not me.



Sovereign, for someone with as much negativity towards VSL and synchron, and dismissing it, you sure demonstrate a lot of passion sticking around this thread. Maybe there's a Starbucks I didn't see.


----------



## Sovereign

Guy Bacos said:


> Sovereign, for someone with as much negativity towards VSL and synchron, and dismissing it, you sure demonstrate a lot of passion sticking around this thread.


Go back in this thread and you will find no negativity towards VSL from me at all, and if I was negative towards Synchron I wouldn't have been an "early bird" who pre-orderded. Any disappointment came after the first demos and the download. So no, the characterisation is misplaced.


----------



## Sovereign

omiroad said:


> You haven't ever been impressed by VSL libraries? Not sure why you expected to like this one then.


Where did I say this? VSL never "wowed" me in recent years, that's different from (not) liking something.


----------



## Sovereign

omiroad said:


> That's the kind of misunderstanding that's caused by replying with two words and a smiley.


Nah, all I'm emphasising is how I never shared the surprise moment Guy describes there. It doesn't mean I somehow think VSL cannot sound nice.


----------



## Sovereign

Guy Bacos said:


> Maybe there's a Starbucks I didn't see.


I wish there was one here.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Sovereign said:


> Nah, all I'm emphasising is how I never shared the surprise moment Guy describes there. It doesn't mean I somehow think VSL cannot sound nice.



Maybe you should be more specific in that case, cause it certainly implies this.


----------



## Sovereign

Guy Bacos said:


> Maybe you should be more specific in that case, cause it certainly implies this.


Perhaps, perhaps not. It depends on the mindset I suppose, if you necessarily want to see negativity you will find it in every sentence. Either way, I clarified those two menacing words.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Sovereign said:


> I wish there was one here.


----------



## camelot

Unbelievable, I read all these pages. But not at once. I come back frequently to see if there is something new to see or listen to. 
The image you get from the complete thread is quite confusing. For many here, the sound of the strings is too sterile or midi'ish, but I hear a really good general tone and timbre from the individual notes in the VSL videos and the more professional audio samples. Some of them even better than I expected to get from VSL, which have a slightly different sound esthetic compared to the common Hollywood sound. Again, some other samples sound really weird though.
I think the general sound of the lib is quite good, certainly not as characteristic as CSS or Soaring Strings (which might not always be needed) but very pristine. I would not let myself be fooled from some of the audio examples.
I think there is some big potential in the lib and I don't think, the strings need to be re-recorded. I guess the base material is already there.
But the legatos from VSL were always like this. Again, different sound esthetic.


----------



## FriFlo

Guy Bacos said:


>


By all means ... I cannot support you guys advertising Starbucks here! They evade European taxes and offer a lousy coffee culture ... support local family business baristas instead!


----------



## Vik




----------



## Guy Bacos

That answering machine episode, "Believe it or not...."


----------



## novaburst

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Can SS do this kind of stuff?
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ffbe3ld4v5syqu/Alexander_BO_STRINGS.mp3?dl=0



I had a little try, I did loose all timing and did in real time so very sorry about that timing all over the place, also please note before you start bashing this is only S S, and absolutely no processing you are getting this naked and bare sorry again.

I did note the panning on @AlexanderSchiborr, again very sorry no panning on this all just stereo.

You will also find a zillion notes missing  I did have fun lots of it.

I think in S S current state it is limited in what it can do, but I still felt comfortable with it.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> think way too much time is being spent listening to stupid little single note melody lines from Jurassic Park or whatever - as if it truly was some kind of universal litmus test for string libraries


----------



## Guy Bacos

novaburst said:


> I had a little try, I did loose all timing and did in real time so very sorry about that timing all over the place, also please note before you start bashing this is only S S, and absolutely no processing you are getting this naked and bare sorry again.
> 
> I did note the panning on @AlexanderSchiborr, again very sorry no panning on this all just stereo.
> 
> You will also find a zillion notes missing  I did have fun lots of it.
> 
> I think in S S current state it is limited in what it can do, but I still felt comfortable with it.




Hard to say, this isn't very good programming, you have to admit. But I think you know this.


----------



## FriFlo

omiroad said:


> This is a serious post, isn't it?
> 
> That actually shines a new light on some of the discussion here...


What? You also buy Starbucks Coffee??!


----------



## novaburst

Guy Bacos said:


> Hard to say, this isn't very good programming, you have to admit. But I think you know this.



There was no programming involved just notes, being played, the piece a little to much and above my capabilities.
But it was fun and a learning curve if you can call it that.

It makes me appreciate the type of work you guys do, some times you never know until you try it your self.


----------



## ctsai89

My real dissapointing came only after the demo by herb. 

Guy bacos almost made me pre order synchron with his demo tho.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

stargazer said:


> It doesn’t feel organic to me. A bit disconnected and with static velocity.



Any example what feels organic to your ears? YOu have also to keep in mind that these were legato patches and no prerecorded runs.


novaburst said:


> I had a little try, I did loose all timing and did in real time so very sorry about that timing all over the place, also please note before you start bashing this is only S S, and absolutely no processing you are getting this naked and bare sorry again.
> 
> I did note the panning on @AlexanderSchiborr, again very sorry no panning on this all just stereo.
> 
> You will also find a zillion notes missing  I did have fun lots of it.
> 
> I think in S S current state it is limited in what it can do, but I still felt comfortable with it.




Thank you for posting. So, I think they need to deliver some patches for those slurred fast lines. Is there any available? No, My example was not using any prerecorded runs, I use the legato patch. This is the reason why a few people told me: Oh this sounds not so realistic. But in my opinion it sounds pretty descent considering I used a legato patch for it and no prerecorded run. Of course it can be always a tad better and more realistic by layering it with a real recorded runs which could probably make the trick. Anyways your example shows the problematic with the transitions. The runs by itself, ok they can´t work right now. Curious if they will somehow offer patches in the future? I mean..don´t get me wrong: I never would purchase a library because it has runs and runs are from a compositional aspect not that important. But that is VSL latest installment and I was totally sure they offer one way or the other something where you can do those fast lines in a convincing way.


----------



## Celador

I don't know if this has been discussed before: VSL stated in their release mail they sent to early bird customers, that all "performance articulations" would be handed in later (in early 2018). I am not sure what this means in detail. In past VSL libraries there were regular legato patches and performance legato patches. Is it possible that getting "performance articulations" mens getting better legato patches soon?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Legato patches were always called "performance legato" by VSL. What they meant is that the legato patches for violins 2, violas and basses, which are not done yet, will follow in early 2018, presumably February.


----------



## stigc56

Sovereign said:


> Good legato makes up half a library, it makes or breaks it.
> 
> Not me.


So why did you buy it?


----------



## Sovereign

stigc56 said:


> So why did you buy it?


Misplaced faith that VSL was going to do the string library to end all other libraries.


----------



## novaburst

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Thank you for posting. So, I think they need to deliver some patches for those slurred fast lines. Is there any available? No,



Well must say I have a lot to blame for the performance of the SS, and believe if these strings was in another well skilled hands they could have nailed it.

Just spamming the notes on this piece you shared was enough for me, and it did not take me long to find out it was way above my skill level, so to try and massage, and program, and make it sound good would just add insult to insult.

I posted it becuase I enjoyed doing it and felt very comfortable using SS, and if I was doing something like this again I would definitely call on SS, becuase they just seem to have an honest sound and tone.

This is why I really hope VSL does not give up on this Synchron Strings product even if they need another 6 months to a year to finish and get things correct it is such a nice product to use even with all the nags.

I also posted it because as bazaar as it sounds I actually like it the sound, and heard what I wanted to hear, this was a naked example no prossecing and I know that there are some that can gain alot from that weather negative or positive, inside a full sugar coated demo to many things are hidden.

Never the less as I said really appreciate you guys skill and dedication not only to skillful midi muck ups but also to music it self that little piece example was certainly an eye opener.

Would have just said one thing about the original piece was the starting run kind seemed very precise maybe just a little.


----------



## novaburst

On a more technical side, if I need to move SS from drive to drive would this be a matter of drag and drop or is it a matter of downloading the library again.


----------



## Tfis

You have to rebuy it.....

Should be drag and drop, but tell the VSL directory manager where to look for.


----------



## Saxer

novaburst said:


> On a more technical side, if I need to move SS from drive to drive would this be a matter of drag and drop or is it a matter of downloading the library again.


Just drag/drop and show the VSL Directory Manager the new location.


----------



## Critz

I would like to have your thoughts on the higher dynamic layers of this library (long notes) and sforzato patch.
To me the sforzato patch sounds like a joke; to me sounds clearly like a short sample layered over a long note; and it's very obvious because when the sustained part arrives it's very disconnected from the attack. 
About the higher dynamic layer, in my opinion there's not vibrato enough to sound like a fff. 
This stuff, imho, is quite important in term of realism for a modern library (see how berlin handles this stuff).
Personally that stuff bothers me because of the huge size of the library. For a 50 gbs library I wouldn't mind having this tricks from the programmers, but these are a couple of examples of what disappoint me about this library (excluding the legato part we discussed a lot).


----------



## novaburst

Tfis said:


> You have to rebuy it.....



Oh right,. I am on pay Pal right now, I guess next time I will try not to move them 


Ok thanks for the info guys.


----------



## meradium

novaburst said:


> Well must say I have a lot to blame for the performance of the SS, and believe if these strings was in another well skilled hands they could have nailed it.
> 
> Just spamming the notes on this piece you shared was enough for me, and it did not take me long to find out it was way above my skill level, so to try and massage, and program, and make it sound good would just add insult to insult.
> 
> I posted it becuase I enjoyed doing it and felt very comfortable using SS, and if I was doing something like this again I would definitely call on SS, becuase they just seem to have an honest sound and tone.
> 
> This is why I really hope VSL does not give up on this Synchron Strings product even if they need another 6 months to a year to finish and get things correct it is such a nice product to use even with all the nags.
> 
> I also posted it because as bazaar as it sounds I actually like it the sound, and heard what I wanted to hear, this was a naked example no prossecing and I know that there are some that can gain alot from that weather negative or positive, inside a full sugar coated demo to many things are hidden.
> 
> Never the less as I said really appreciate you guys skill and dedication not only to skillful midi muck ups but also to music it self that little piece example was certainly an eye opener.
> 
> Would have just said one thing about the original piece was the starting run kind seemed very precise maybe just a little.


You are what I would call a good and loyal customer every company would love to have  Sorry, but I could not resist...


----------



## meradium

omiroad said:


> Now let's disregard this page and get back on topic.
> 
> My question is, how do people regard Synchron Percussion compared to Synchron Strings, and have people used the former successfully with other libraries?


The samples are really great. The dynamic layers are a real joy to have. The handling, however, in my opinion is not that great if you are used to Kontakt libraries. If you look at my other thread from a while back you will know I am particularly alienated by the player, e. g. you have to pay another $$$ to be allowed to reduce your sample pre-buffer.


----------



## novaburst

meradium said:


> You are what I would call a good and loyal customer every company would love to have  Sorry, but I could not resist...



Loyal no... I have a few string librarys under me, I would say I am a happy customer, and understand what I have and its possibilities.

I also understand that this library is just not for everyone.


----------



## Tfis

meradium said:


> The samples are really great. The dynamic layers are a real joy to have. The handling, however, in my opinion is not that great if you are used to Kontakt libraries. If you look at my other thread from a while back you will know I am particularly alienated by the player, e. g. you have to pay another $$$ to be allowed to reduce your sample pre-buffer.


December 20, 2017
Vienna Instruments/Vienna Ensemble 6.0.16754
• New Vienna Ensemble 6 included, see updated manual for details
• Added: Synchron Strings support
• Added: Synchronize Control Map Option in Settings
• Added: Support for VI Remote App, more details in the separate VI Remote App Manual
*• Added Support for SSD (adjustable Preload Size)*
• Added: Support for Synchron Series update files in Directory Manager
• Miscellaneous bug fixes and updates


----------



## meradium

Tfis said:


> December 20, 2017
> Vienna Instruments/Vienna Ensemble 6.0.16754
> • New Vienna Ensemble 6 included, see updated manual for details
> • Added: Synchron Strings support
> • Added: Synchronize Control Map Option in Settings
> • Added: Support for VI Remote App, more details in the separate VI Remote App Manual
> *• Added Support for SSD (adjustable Preload Size)*
> • Added: Support for Synchron Series update files in Directory Manager
> • Miscellaneous bug fixes and updates


Me neither. Thanks for posting. Happy to see this has now been addressed. Can't test right now, but if this is indeed fixed, the Synchron Percussion library gets a clear buy recommendation from me. Though as a user I have to go through quite a task to make all available articulations easily accessible while playing. But given the amount of captured detail I can live with that...


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I only have the Synchron Timpani, but those are brilliant.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

omiroad said:


> That's cool to hear. Do they still sound 'right' when combined with other, non Synchron libraries?



Sure, why not? I mean it's not different from other libraries in that sense. I guess most of us have libraries from different developers and mix and match all the time. Depending on what one is trying to do, something might fit more or less and might require more or less work.

What I can say is that the Synchron Timpani sound pristine, realistic and quite "concert". They have a strong smack to them. The low end is rich and firm, with a deep spatial image, but the sound doesn't boom away in a long wash of ambience, so it's easy to use with additional reverb. Which to me is something that makes a library easier to mix with others (different send amounts of the same reverb to all tracks in a piece, to glue them all together a bit).


----------



## meradium

omiroad said:


> That's cool to hear. Do they still sound 'right' when combined with other, non Synchron libraries?


Never had any issues with that, so yes, for me it works quite nicely


----------



## romantic

Still waiting for the announced Legato Video, or any other official VSL statement. In the meantime I will continue enjoying the shorts and flautandos


----------



## muziksculp

I think we will have a chance to see, and hear the new *Synchron Player* in action during the *Winter NAMM 2018 Show Jan. 25th - Jan. 28th. *

Until then, I have no idea if they are working on improving the Legato functionality of Syn.Strings in VI-Pro 2. (Hopefully they are), additional demos, and videos would be very helpful as well while we wait for the Synchron Player, which is expected to be released sometime in Feb.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Paul wrote in the Synchron Strings thread Synchron Player will be shown at NAMM and that there should be videos before that.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I'm hoping that they are working on the legato as well. I can't stand the calm. They should have given a statement or something at least.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Actually, I find it rather strange that they are not mentioning the legatos for the 2nd violins, violas and basses on their site. I know they will be released in February. So they are showing and communicating (demos, videos) only the status quo and will add more information later. Why not talking about the upcoming features (and the re-invented legato) in Synchron Player right now? I don't understand. But I really believe Synchron Player will fix all the problems, because these innovative algorithms they are talking about are probably not available or cannot be integrated in VI Pro. Paul wrote that the player will be different in behaviour, so VI Pro cannot do it.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Probably because it's too early. And considering how things panned out so far, I'd rather prefer them to work on stuff than to talk and promise too much beforehand.

Btw., nobody is mentioning the tone of the violas in this library. Violas are almost always weak. One could swear they get less attention than violins by developers. Not here. They sound really great.


----------



## erica-grace

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> But I really believe Synchron Player will fix all the problems, because these innovative algorithms they are talking about are probably not available or cannot be integrated in VI Pro.



I can't imagine the player fixing the static and lifeless sound of the way the players played. Maybe the player will make things easier to work with - but if there really was going to be that much a significant difference, VSL would have waited on the release.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Probably because it's too early. And considering how things panned out so far, I'd rather prefer them to work on stuff than to talk and promise too much beforehand.
> 
> Btw., nobody is mentioning the tone of the violas in this library. Violas are almost always weak. One could swear they get less attention than violins by developers. Not here. They sound really great.


I totally agree. Violas are very interesting here. I think no one mentioned it because we can't really listen to the violas and basses without all the legato patches.
Unfortunately i can't tell the same for Cellos. As usual I don't like the tone of VSL cellos, and this time I start blaming players :/


----------



## doubleattack

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Probably because it's too early. And considering how things panned out so far, I'd rather prefer them to work on stuff than to talk and promise too much beforehand.
> 
> Btw., nobody is mentioning the tone of the violas in this library. Violas are almost always weak. One could swear they get less attention than violins by developers. Not here. They sound really great.



Sound of the violas is great, yes. But it seems to me they are not in the right balance in relation to the whole ensemble. I have to tame the close mics a lot to get the right balance. Or I'm wrong?

btw I find the pizzicatos most beautiful and really really useful. No comparison to the old vsl librarys.
I've tried them out today with a excerpt from "Neue Pizzicato Polka" by Johann Strauss.
After all this should be work with the Vienna SL. 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fty5j51a9xyp81n/Joh. Strauss - Neue Pizzicato Polka - (excerpt).wav?dl=0


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> I totally agree. Violas are very interesting here. I think no one mentioned it because we can't really listen to the violas and basses without all the legato patches.
> Unfortunately i can't tell the same for Cellos. As usual I don't like the tone of VSL cellos, and this time I start blaming players :/



Which part would you blame them for?

Their playing? The way they vibrato? The way they shifted? Or do you think they had the wrong strings or instruments that are too cheap?

It's always been the tone of VSL cello and especially cello. whether it's solo chamber or synchron that turns me off from VSL too

And I don't think it's because I am a cellist myself that I feel that way.


----------



## novaburst

ctsai89 said:


> It's always been the tone of VSL cello and especially cello. whether it's solo chamber or synchron that turns me off from VSL too
> 
> And I don't think it's because I am a cellist myself that I feel that way.



There are so many real life Instrument performers who play violins Cellos, violas and double bass, and there main string library is VSL to some other library's just will not fit the bill for performance and realism.

I still believe it's the way the user approaches VSL string librarys, there is no doubt some with a deeper understanding of how to use it.

Also while there is this talk about synthy sound I would say you need to check out real life performers, they can make a very unusual none vibratos sound that sounds close to harmonics but it is not, it sounds very silky and does not sound that they are using a bow but they are, 

All that has happened is that it is included in one or two patches in the VSL library.

This thought that VSL does not understand or know what they are doing is absurd to say the least.


----------



## ctsai89

novaburst said:


> There are so many real life Instrument performers who play violins Cellos, violas and double bass, and there main string library is VSL to some other library's just will not fit the bill for performance and realism.
> 
> I still believe it's the way the user approaches VSL string librarys, there is no doubt some with a deeper understanding of how to use it.
> 
> Also while there is this talk about synthy sound I would say you need to check out real life performers, they can make a very unusual none vibratos sound that sounds close to harmonics but it is not, it sounds very silky and does not sound that they are using a bow but they are,
> 
> All that has happened is that it is included in one or two patches in the VSL library.
> 
> This thought that VSL does not understand or know what they are doing is absurd to say the least.



So let's talk about herb's legato demo. 

Am I supposed to think that he thinks that sounds realistic?


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> So let's talk about herb's legato demo.
> 
> Am I supposed to think that he thinks that sounds realistic?


No. We are supposed to think that if he leads the Company, we shouldn't be surprised we don't like certain stuff of their libraries.


----------



## novaburst

ctsai89 said:


> So let's talk about herb's legato demo.
> 
> Am I supposed to think that he thinks that sounds realistic?



I don't play any orchestral instruments apart from the piano, I only can judge from what I hear from other's and then comparison.

Some times it's clear that some phrases, vibratos leggatos are not used well in some library's and sometimes to me it's not always clear.

All I am saying above me there are too many skillfull and experienced performers that have VSL as there go to library, and that alone counters many critical slams against VSL (string products) or we would have to say they are all death, or haven't a clue in what they are doing and the latter is simply is not the case.

I am not saying there are no nags here and there but I and many others can not deny that VSL creat top of the range library's that attracts the best performers and users those are just facts to consider when others go down the critical road.


----------



## Critz

novaburst said:


> I don't play any orchestral instruments apart from the piano, I only can judge from what I hear from other's and then comparison.
> 
> Some times it's clear that some phrases, vibratos leggatos are not used well in some library's and sometimes to me it's not always clear.
> 
> All I am saying above me there are too many skillfull and experienced performers that have VSL as there go to library, and that alone counters many critical slams against VSL (string products) or we would have to say they are all death, or haven't a clue in what they are doing and the latter is simply is not the case.
> 
> I am not saying there are no nags here and there but I and many others can not deny that VSL creat top of the range library's that attracts the best performers and users those are just facts to consider when others go down the critical road.


VSL created top products, during first years of 2000. Things change fastly. Here the question is: are they still capable of doing top notch products? Especially entering the "WET world".
It's not that obvious.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

In my opinion though it is good to talk. Just wait until february..I think then everybody can make his final conclusions...I think at this point everything has been said at least twice if not even 3 times, so I don´t know but I think there is nothing new to the table yet..so lets wait..


----------



## jamwerks

Critz said:


> ...are they still capable of doing top notch products? Especially entering the "WET world"


Are you sure that doing legato in a "wet" library is different or more difficult than in a dryer ambience? BTW their Silent Stage had a reverb time of about .8(?) seconds (can't remember the exact number).


----------



## Critz

jamwerks said:


> Are you sure that doing legato in a "wet" library is different or more difficult than in a dryer ambience? BTW their Silent Stage had a reverb time of about .8(?) seconds (can't remember the exact number).


Of course it's more difficult. 1.8 sec reverb btw


----------



## Saxer

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> ...I think at this point everything has been said at least twice if not even 3 times, so I don´t know but I think there is nothing new to the table yet..so lets wait..


Yepp, this is a perpetuum mobile thread without any results or insights. 
It's really crazy (not to say critzy)


----------



## jamwerks

Critz said:


> Of course it's more difficult. 1.8 sec reverb btw


Do you know anything about legato programming (I don't)? Why's it more difficult with wet sources?


----------



## prodigalson

Yes, it makes sense that frankensteining together sustain samples and legato transitions that all have ambience baked in would be more complicated than samples that don't. It's why in many ambient libraries (especially Spitfire) the hall sound briefly disappears during certain legato transitions. One of the worst offenders I've heard for that so far is the Century Brass legato freebie they released.


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


> 1.6-1.8 seconds of reverb is for the Synchron Stage, not the Silent Stage.


Oh sorry I thought you meant synchron. Btw I think they used to de-reverb samples in the past. Would makes sense.


----------



## jamwerks

Not an expert either but whether it's an anechoic chamber or the distant mic's at Air studios, you're crossfading samples. I highly doubt different mic positions are treated differently. My point being that the Silent Stage (the old VSL room) was already ambient with a much higher level (in ration db) of early reflections that just about any other library. I don't think their new room with a longer tail is the reason for concern, but who knows for sure?...


----------



## Sovereign

omiroad said:


> Not an expert, but in a wet situation everything has a tail that mixes into different parts of the recordings.
> 
> With a true dry recording, you can just cut and paste every little part together. But with wet tails, it all blends into each other. That does seem more difficult to deal with.


No, it's not really that much more difficult. Way back in 2006-2007 when a private library was recorded for selected VI-control participants there were legato recordings as well and I worked on those. That library was wet also, recorded in a studio. Crossfading those legatos into sustains turned out to work easily back then, the "tail" of the legato transition was never really a problem.


----------



## jamwerks

omiroad said:


> I thought especially with multiple mic setups it would impact the difficulty for them.


All the mic's are time aligned so you just cut vertically all the different samples.


----------



## erica-grace

prodigalson said:


> in many ambient libraries (especially Spitfire) the hall sound briefly disappears during certain legato transitions.



My understanding is that's not true if you have a release sample play when the first note stops.


----------



## jamwerks

omiroad said:


> But the attacks and tails are gonna be different between a close mic and a main/further away mic, right?


You're right normally they would be considerably different. But they time align all the positions (far mic's + 20ms, etc) so that everything lines up perfectly. That's why SF can do a runs legato on the choir loft mic's very far away!


----------



## Critz

Anyway for some users, included me, the VSL Strings legato was never that good. So it's not a matter of wet samples according to our taste.


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> VSL created top products, during first years of 2000. Things change fastly. Here the question is: are they still capable of doing top notch products? Especially entering the "WET world".
> It's not that obvious.



What we have in Synchron Strings is a top Library, much of it sounds beautiful out of the box some you need to make sound beautiful.

The sound and tone is different but it doesn't sound wet, but slap a reverb on it and gosh.......


----------



## Critz

novaburst said:


> What we have in Synchron Strings is a top Library, much of it sounds beautiful out of the box some you need to make sound beautiful.
> 
> The sound and tone is different but it doesn't sound wet, but slap a reverb on it and gosh.......


Yes but what sounds beautiful out of the box now are the articulations that don't need any scripting or particular features (sustains, flautando, dim/cresc, shorts). This library doesn't have nothing that a top library should have nowadays.


----------



## prodigalson

erica-grace said:


> My understanding is that's not true if you have a release sample play when the first note stops.



A release sample in addition to a legato transition?


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> Yes but what sounds beautiful out of the box now are the articulations that don't need any scripting or particular features (sustains, flautando, dim/cresc, shorts). This library doesn't have nothing that a top library should have nowadays.



Yes you have a point, one thing that VSL do hold back on are articulations.

I believe the articulations that comes with the S S are all that VSL are prepared to give.

Other articulations no doubt will be entered into up coming S String releases in the future so I guess SS 2 will have different articulations and SS 3 and more.


----------



## Saxer

I don't know how they do it today but in the earlier libraries like Orchestral Strings VSL used to record legato transitions together with the following note as one sample. So they didn't fade into a transition and from there into another sustain. I can still hear this in their older libraries for the EXS that were stored as single waveforms: if you open a single legato sample you hear a legato transition with additional sustain phase as one sample.
If this is done the same way with Synchron Strings the problem of a missing rev-tail after the transition sample doesn't appear. It's simply part of the following note.
And if they really sampled that way there's probably few to argue about 'wrong' legato transitions because then the simply recorded them in one go with the following note. It's simply recorded what the strings do when playing legato. Independent from a personal taste...


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> Yes you have a point, one thing that VSL do hold back on are articulations.
> 
> I believe the articulations that comes with the S S are all that VSL are prepared to give.
> 
> Other articulations no doubt will be entered into up coming S String releases in the future so I guess SS 2 will have different articulations and SS 3 and more.



Let's not forget that SyS Standard is a 400 bucks library. That needs to be put into perspective. When we point out what this or that other library offers in terms of articulations and stuff like that, let's also not forget that we're talking about libraries that are double the price.

Still, some omissions strike me as odd. I'd rather lose one velocity layer accross but have a proper short spiccato and a portamento in there. And a proper sfz articulation, like they always used to have, instead of a cheap sustain note with a staccato tacked onto it (something that doesn't sound good, but takes space on the drive even though I could put that together in VI Pro by myself). Older VSL libraries also always had Portato and different length pre-recorded arcs and dynamics. All of that is missing right now.


----------



## Sovereign

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Let's not forget that SyS Standard is a 400 bucks library. That needs to be put into perspective. When we point out what this or that other library offers in terms of articulations and stuff like that, let's also not forget that we're talking about libraries that are double the price.


It's about 400 bucks right now, sure. But that will end soon enough, list price is 595. Is it worth that price? I don't think so.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Sovereign said:


> It's about 400 bucks right now, sure. But that will end soon enough, list price is 595.



Right, I forgot that.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> instead of a cheap sustain note with a staccato tacked onto it (something that doesn't sound good, b



Again you need to bare with me on this sounding good phrases my ears are not as toned as yours.

When I look at the way VSL has put this SS library together I would say yes this is the way to go.

You have already noted you can indeed get staccatos from the longs and maccartos
From the same longs and spitts 

And it feels very natural to play becuase it's you and your playing that gives off round Robbin to any degree not just 4 or 3.

I thought you would have jumped to that idea.

You will also get different lengths of staccatos giving an even more natural feel
When you release the key as all will not be released at the same time.

This is something I believe sample modeling has done in their strings you can't get more natural than that type of playing.

I think it sounds great, it could be that the new player may high light this I don't know but even now I am having a blast with this type of style.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

@novaburst What I mean is that they have a dedicated sfz articulation in SyS. But when you listen to it, it's not an actual recorded sfz performance, like they always had in older VSL libraries. It's actually just some kind of a sustained note with an overlaid staccato sample over it. Listen to it closely. It literally is the shorts sample on top of a sus note. It doesn't sound good. It sounds exactly like "sus + stacc overlay". That strikes me as cheap. Why even blow up the library size with those patches? One can create the exact same sound within VI Pro by just layering a stacc sample with a sus sample manually.


----------



## Sovereign

omiroad said:


> The thread over at VSL is now called "Delete this troll-hijacked thread" by William. Certainly not all posts were constructive on either side, but it's even worse that he tries to get the opinions he doesn't like deleted.


Ah right, just went there to check up on it, he considers everyone who is critical a troll and a buffoon. What a fanboy.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Synchron Strings may be the most dramatic sample library release ever, love it :D

So to keep this perpetuum mobile spinning, I checked those sfz patches and created similar patch with slot x-fade and I'll be damned. Is this true? This really sounds way to similar. Does this mean they didn't record true sforzando? Or the recordings are still on and this is just a placeholder? I'm more and more confused with this release. And I hate all those questions (plus my own conspiracy theories - for example, additional volumes were already recorded and we all have them on our drives, but they are blocked - like badly made DLC, that's why it is so huge ).

Bring me time machine! Destination: Earth, year 2018, day 20th of February.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Saxer said:


> I don't know how they do it today but in the earlier libraries like Orchestral Strings VSL used to record legato transitions together with the following note as one sample. So they didn't fade into a transition and from there into another sustain. I can still hear this in their older libraries for the EXS that were stored as single waveforms: if you open a single legato sample you hear a legato transition with additional sustain phase as one sample.


Yes, this was the way they sampled and I expected that in SS as well. Actually, I like this legato of the old libraries. I don't hear any transition at all now. Maybe it's a bow change legato, so there will be not a very long transition at all, right? Does one know here if this is true what I'm saying? A fingered legato will sound more slurred like in their slur patch.

But I'm repeating myself over and over again: I hope Synchron Player will add something. I mean, there is no scripting (algorithms) in VI Pro for SS, because it cannot be handled there. You guys probably can't hear it anymore.  In Play, for example, you can actually deactivate the separate patches which make the legato. It consists of a sustain, a slur and a release. When you deactivate the sustain, you can have a listen to the slur only, and vice versa. That's interesting how EastWest made up their legatos. And I really hope there will be some kind of such a scripting in Synchron Player.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Piotrek K. said:


> I'm more and more confused with this release. And I hate all those questions (plus my own conspiracy theories - for example, additional volumes were already recorded and we all have them on our drives, but they are blocked.


I think so, too. Maybe in Synchron Player there will be more articulations or "something" great which they are hiding at the moment. Who knows? Imagine a kind of Auto Divisi as in Symphony Series. That would be a great surprise. So I stick to my previous post: There will be "something" added with Synchron Player.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Paul said in the sneak peek video that there will be "unlimited stacking options" in Synchron Player. Maybe they trust on combining samples to make other articulations.


----------



## muk

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> it's not an actual recorded sfz performance, like they always had in older VSL libraries. It's actually just some kind of a sustained note with an overlaid staccato sample over it.



If that was true it would be deceptive. Under sample content VSL lists 'Sforzando, vibrato/no vibrato/lyrical'. So a buyer can rightfully expect that this articulation was recorded for the library, not layered from other articulations.


----------



## eli0s

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> ...Maybe it's a bow change legato, so there will be not a very long transition at all, right? Does one know here if this is true what I'm saying? A fingered legato will sound more slurred like in their slur patch...


I don't think a fingered legato should necessary sound like a slur. It should *not* however sound like disconnected notes. Most of the time, on the demos at VSL and in this topic, I hear the latter. Or some weird smearing between adjacent notes, like a xfade between the samples. Something similar like overlapping sustained notes without triggering any legato transition samples.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

omiroad said:


> The thread over at VSL is now called "Delete this troll-hijacked thread" by William. Certainly not all posts were constructive on either side, but it's even worse that he tries to get the opinions he doesn't like deleted.



I've been reading the VSL forums a bit lately and it seems that's just his regular self. A highly arrogant and short-tempered person. Pretty funny stuff.


----------



## duanran007

Edit: hope vsl is ok


----------



## Celador

New version of VI software available with legato blur controller. They also uploaded the legato video.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> Yes but what sounds beautiful out of the box now are the articulations that don't need any scripting or particular features (sustains, flautando, dim/cresc, shorts). This library doesn't have nothing that a top library should have nowadays.



I wonder if some people think staccatos are what strings are all about? Lol. 

I'm beginning to think novahurst is a total fan boy with no objective basis. 

And I need my ears checked because I disagree that synchron is a top library.


----------



## Critz

OK VSL. We're getting there!


----------



## ctsai89

Hmm ok maybe @novaburst you are right. The new video is shows synchron sounding better


----------



## Nicola74

Does anyone know what is the Basses V2? I have it in MyVSL but I don't know what it is... Thanks in advance


----------



## holywilly

ctsai89 said:


> Hmm ok maybe @novaburst you are right. The new video is shows synchron sounding better


Get it!


----------



## ctsai89

holywilly said:


> Get it!



Not yet  

Still hasn't surpassed my beloved SSS 

But as @Critz (whose opinion i can trust) says it's getting there and I can hear it


----------



## Vadium

Nicola74 said:


> Does anyone know what is the Basses V2?


Basses V2 = Basses V1 + Basses hotfix patch
You not need V2 if you already have installed and patched V1


----------



## novaburst

ctsai89 said:


> The new video is shows synchron sounding better



I have been having a lot of fun with this library since day one, there are quite a bit of possibility's with it and a lot of variations of doing things.

Sound is a matter of opinion, I love it, if you are used to other high end String library's then SyS will take some getting used to and the edits are very different from the conventional library edits.

I liked the library from the very first demos but some did not like the demos

What ever library is on the market I think it must become personal before purchase.


----------



## Nicola74

Vadium said:


> Basses V2 = Basses V1 + Basses hotfix patch
> You not need V2 if you already have installed and patched V1


Thanks


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> Not yet
> 
> Still hasn't surpassed my beloved SSS
> 
> But as @Critz (whose opinion i can trust) says it's getting there and I can hear it


There will be always something from Spitfire that you will miss in Synchron. For example Synchron Strings are so perfect in tune that a bit of realism is lost in this way. Spitfire sounds much bigger and symphonic also thanks to this "larger" vibrato and some tuning imperfections.
Also, all the doubts about the real number of legato transition dynamic layers, those fake sforzando patches, the lack of a "molto espressivo" (molto vibrato), are still there.
At least we can say VSL is listening. Tbh the blur legato is actualy a pre-existing feature that now is more user frendly. So VSL could blame us not to be pro users. But I say that it was very strange a user had to move advanced parameters to achieve a good legato in this new "re-inventing" strings library..


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


> I wonder if the fake sforzando patches are baked in, or just separately played samples. At least the latter doesn't use more drive space.


I'm pretty sure those patches don't use more drive space!
Still I really hate them


----------



## Sovereign

For those who want the legato transitions (and the vibrato) to be more defined, I'd suggest always mixing in the close mics. Personally, I like the combo Main + Close. As for the blur, it's subtle but it helps a bit.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

So, after this new VSL video, are you guys finally gonna apologize to this William dude or not ?


----------



## Sovereign

whitewasteland said:


> So, after this new VSL video, are you guys finally gonna apologize to this William dude or not ?


I hope that is sarcasm.


----------



## doubleattack

Critz said:


> I'm pretty sure those patches don't use more drive space!
> Still I really hate them



To hate the sfz may be a little over the top, but it's actually a bit disappointing ...

To make the VE PRO player usable for the synchron strings I see as a compromise to make an earlier publication possible. I think the reaction of the VSL team for the meantime to create remedy is absolutely professional and reliable in their usual way.

By the way: The full library (40 instances of VE PRO) runs on my Mac with 13.6 GB RAM usage (lowest preload setting in Directory Manager 1536), if all instruments and microphon positions are running the CPU utilization at buffer setting 256 is 40% average, at buffer 512 at 30%.
I would have to look how it would be with 40 contact instances ...


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Sovereign said:


> I hope that is sarcasm.



Yes, this was supposed to be funny


----------



## Critz

doubleattack said:


> To hate the sfz may be a little over the top, but it's actually a bit disappointing ...
> 
> To make the VE PRO player usable for the synchronous strings I see as a compromise to make an earlier publication possible. I think the reaction of the VSL team for the meantime to create remedy is absolutely professional and reliable in their usual way.
> 
> By the way: The full library (40 instances of VE PRO) runs on my Mac with 13.6 GB RAM usage (lowest preload setting in Directory Manager 1536), if all instruments and microphon positions are running the CPU utilization at buffer setting 256 is 40% average, at buffer 512 at 30%.
> I would have to look how it would be with 40 contact instances ...


Once again, all the disappointments from users like me is because of that; how many companies could release an update to their sampler to please users' requests? Just VSL. If Synchron Strings would be a Library at least on pair with Spitfire or Berlin (overall) we would all be happy to make it our workhorse.
It's ok for me to spend 1000 $ for SSD to run this huge Synchron Series, but I'm not in anymore if I get fake Sfz and missing main articulations. Ok..there will be Synchron Strings II and maybe III, so that means I need 1 terabyte ssd for Strings alone? If so, that should really be the DEFINITIVE Strings Library. The one to rule them all.


----------



## Erik

Hi,
Just for a _Moment Musical_ herewith a track from a former thread here, posted by Muk a few months ago: a beautiful arrangement for strings and harp of a song of Schubert: Litanei. Many members have posted their contributions. Now of course with the latest Synchron version, only the first half of his arrangement btw.

Have a seat please and relax....

PS I skipped the first two bars with the harp intro (sorry Muk).



I will post in a dedicated thread other examples form my HD (CS, Lass etc.).


----------



## eli0s

I still don't get it. This "legato blur" what does exactly? Because to my ears it just smears the gap between the notes, I don't really hear any transition, except from the slurred legato patch (which I don't like, it is too prominent and abrupt).
To me, this "blur" sounds more like this:

A sustained patch with some overlap between the notes and a clever attack management.

While a "real" transition should sound more like this:


----------



## Sovereign

eli0s said:


> I still don't get it. This "legato blur" what does exactly?


It appears to lengthen the tail of the transition and is related to the p.rel slider.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Erik said:


> Hi,
> Just for a _Moment Musical_ herewith a track from a former thread here, posted by Muk a few months ago: a beautiful arrangement for strings and harp of a song of Schubert: Litanei. Many members have posted their contributions. Now of course with the latest Synchron version, only the first half of his arrangement btw.
> 
> Have a seat please and relax....
> 
> PS I skipped the first two bars with the harp intro (sorry Muk).
> 
> 
> 
> I will post in a dedicated thread other examples form my HD (CS, Lass etc.).




Thank you Erik, that was really beautiful. I am looking forward to your new thread. By the way, thank you for all of the efforts you put into helping composers with your Blog and with your comparisons of various libraries. I truly appreciate your work.


----------



## eli0s

Sovereign said:


> It appears to lengthen the tail of the transition and is related to the p.rel slider.


Ok, this p.rel slider has been mentioned before, however, do you really hear this lengthened transition? Because I don't, what I hear (in two adjacent notes) is the previous note and a small overlap with the next note, with a tamed attack.


----------



## Sovereign

eli0s said:


> Ok, this p.rel slider has been mentioned before, however, do you really hear this lengthened transition? Because I don't, what I hear (in two adjacent notes) is the previous note and a small overlap with the next note, with a tamed attack.


It is difficult to hear. Try the blur slider at 0 and then at maximum, for example when playing the interval from C5-E5. You will hear the original note ring out faster when the slider is set to 0. Obviously, the blur slider does nothing for any part of the legato transition cut before that tail and IMO that's where the real problem is.


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


> My 500GB SSD (Samsung 850 Evo) was about 160 euros, not $1000, or is it not fast enough for a full library like this?


it is it is fast enough..but you can install only Synchron Strings I full with 500 gbs...


----------



## Critz

For me the legato blur solves the problem I always found out with VSL legatos. With it around 60 you can finally have a natural continuation in the volume of the melodic line, without any bump or drop.


----------



## maestro2be

Just had a few moments to update and test out the new legato blur. I have for many years used VI Pro 2 adjusting the release samples and sliders on a per sample basis and so far, this blur slider gives much better results. When using the other release sample sliders it creates a super "wet smearing" sound. You never had to worry about that in the past because the samples sounded almost bone dry. This blur slider seems to really improve the connection between the 2 notes without nearly as much "reverb drowning smearing" effect.

I am happy to see that VSL is "silently" responding to the criticism here and trying to please everyone by giving them their own personal touch sliders and settings since we all like it either more or less smeared based on the song and passage.

I still need to play with it more and put it inside a mix but it's actually promising at this point to me. Perhaps we are seeing a small portion of what's coming in the new player's ability.


----------



## maestro2be

Which further makes me wonder if that's why they are just ignoring all of the bashing and negativity and refusing to comment. Maybe they are laughing at everyone and just thinking, "you all just wait and see what we have in store for you. We will shut all your mouths without any words, just results". You have to admit, Paul and team are incredibly nice and to me appear very people friendly which I admire. His continued smiling and laughing/playful behavior during his videos remains, even after all the smashing. Makes me feel the previous statement about something up his sleeve remains.

Perhaps at the same time, they have decided from now on to take a dead silent approach and now none of us will get any notification of future release/updates until they feel/are more comfortable and ready to announce. Because the criticism has been swift, harsh and quite aggressive on this release.

It reminds me of a concert of Pavarotti and the 3 tenors. The greatest singer on the planet and he was getting over a cold. Instead of cancelling, he decided to go ahead and perform. He wasn't his 100% normal self and the crowd actually boooooo'd him off the stage during his performances with the 3 tenors. Just goes to show that people have extremely high expectations and passion for VSL. Even if you don't buy their products or haven't been able to afford it yet, their reputation and past innovations cause them to get very powerful and critical responses if they don't perform at extraordinary levels.

But that's their fault for being so awesome . Can't wait to see what other improvements and expansions are coming! Could you imagine a half sized or chamber sized divisi section and then later a solo section? Combined with the incredible 3D imaging this sound is providing will be just awesome!


----------



## muziksculp

Hopefully VSL has learned a valuable lesson from their premature *Synchron Strings *library release, basically... they should not release any product before it is ready for release. They could have waited until Feb. to have us see, and hear an impressive Synchron Strings library in action.


----------



## Sovereign

maestro2be said:


> You have to admit, Paul and team are incredibly nice and to me appear very people friendly which I admire.


Paul was probably born with that smile on his face. No seriously, I don't think anyone here doubts they are very nice people. But in the end they are a business so it's only in their best interest to take criticism seriously. I'll reserve further comments until the rest of the library is out and the new Synchron player is available.


----------



## Guy Bacos

eli0s said:


> I still don't get it. This "legato blur" what does exactly? Because to my ears it just smears the gap between the notes, I don't really hear any transition, except from the slurred legato patch (which I don't like, it is too prominent and abrupt).
> To me, this "blur" sounds more like this:
> 
> A sustained patch with some overlap between the notes and a clever attack management.
> 
> While a "real" transition should sound more like this:




I would first look for a satisfying transition between notes, afterwards you can adjust the blur fader to smoothen out a few rough edges for individual passages or just a few notes, but you shouldn't rely on the blur as a legato replacement, at least I wouldn't, more as spice.


----------



## novaburst

maestro2be said:


> Which further makes me wonder if that's why they are just ignoring all of the bashing and negativity and refusing to comment. Maybe they are laughing at everyone and just thinking, "you all just wait and see what we have



I think its wrong to assume, The SyS had a very good legato before the blur using SlotX Fade and VXfade if there was any laughing it would have been how comes users just don't get it, hence the tutorial, and a little plus = Blur, also setting up the matrix with selected natural legatos on key switch or mod wheel many should have been having a blast.



muziksculp said:


> Hopefully VSL has learned a valuable lesson from their premature *Synchron Strings *library release, basically... they should not release any product before it is ready for release. They could have waited until Feb. to have us see, and hear an impressive Synchron Strings library in action.



I think it was a good move from VSL and very humble at the same time, it was a very good gesture it meant many could use it and even record with what was released, also letting the community know and understand we are all in this together (*the product isn't completed but here is what we have for you hope you enjoy*) .

Of course many took the opportunity to criticize and slam the project in its incomplete state, but in my opinion the library SyS still stood strong in the face of all that mud and eggs that were thrown at it.


----------



## Sovereign

novaburst said:


> if there was any laughing it would have been how comes users just don't get it


Ah, of course, everyone else here who complained is just dumb, only Novaburst "got it".


----------



## Paul T McGraw

novaburst said:


> Of course many took the opportunity to criticize and slam the project in its incomplete state, but in my opinion the library SyS still stood strong in the face of all that mud and eggs that were thrown at it.



I never cease to be amazed at the animosity towards VSL on VI-C. If there is one note on one articulation that is less than perfect, the result will be 70 pages of posts about the terrible monsters at VSL.

I just finally got to watch the legato video and I was extremely impressed. I love the FOUR different legato types and the control being offered. Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it the next step forward in sampled strings? I think it very well might be exactly that. Of course, no one cares about my opinion, especially since I am not carrying a torch and pitchfork shouting for the destruction of all things VSL. But for anyone who is not already a VSL hater, do yourself a favor and check out Synchron Strings for yourself. They are a bargain at the current price.


----------



## novaburst

novaburst said:


> Using fast legato Synchron Strings
> 
> Jurassic Park bit, example from going from harsh to smooth, using Xfade and Slot X
> 
> 
> 
> some examples of speed and more harsh to smooth playing around


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> Ah, of course, everyone else here who complained is just dumb, only Novaburst "got it".



Well I did try to show what you could do with the legato way back in my John Williams piece and play about.

Any way peace offering, I hope you come to find something you like about the Library.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I really love the blur feature and I'm looking forward to all the features in the future. 

Does anyone here have the full library and can post a brief comparison? The current upgrade offering (-25%) for the full library is very tempting...


----------



## Casiquire

I agree with the more recent air in this thread, it's early to judge. My opinion is that it's not the Library to End All Libraries since there aren't extensive divisi options, but will it be really good? Probably! They need to hurry it up and release the rest of it though.


----------



## wbacer

Although this goose is only half cooked, I though I'd take the full library out for a spin. When trying out a new library, there's nothing like putting it in context to see how fits with the rest of your template. For what it's worth, here's a little snippet from "Finding Nemo", composed by Thomas Newman.


----------



## amorphosynthesis

wbacer said:


> Although this goose is only half cooked, I though I'd take the full library out for a spin. When trying out a new library, there's nothing like putting it in context to see how fits with the rest of your template. For what it's worth, here's a little snippet from "Finding Nemo", composed by Thomas Newman.



is it my idea or it does indeed sound horrible?


----------



## Paul T McGraw

wbacer said:


> Although this goose is only half cooked, I though I'd take the full library out for a spin. When trying out a new library, there's nothing like putting it in context to see how fits with the rest of your template. For what it's worth, here's a little snippet from "Finding Nemo", composed by Thomas Newman.




Sounds great. Very, very realistic.


----------



## mikeh-375

To my ears that does not sound realistic at all, sorry wbacer, even though you qualified it with a half cooked tag, it sounds absolutely nothing like a real orchestra.


----------



## erica-grace

amorphosynthesis said:


> is it my idea or it does indeed sound horrible



No its not just you - that sounds horrendous.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

ka00 said:


> I’m trying to figure out what is making it not quite sound realistic, but I’m no expert.
> 
> Are the attacks and releases too long on the runs, making it sound too blurred to be real?
> 
> Here’s the original song:




The primary difference is the mix. The live version uses more decca and less close mics. And of course you have the other instruments which hide some of the string detail. If anything, the SyS could be a little too perfectly in tune and perfectly timed. I would turn up the humanization controls in VI Pro to increase timing and tuning differences a bit and back off on the close mics. In a mix with the rest of the instruments, my guess is that 99 out of 100 VI-Control members would have trouble telling the difference between SyS and the real thing. I know I would. It sounds great.


----------



## Critz

Paul T McGraw said:


> The primary difference is the mix. The live version uses more decca and less close mics. And of course you have the other instruments which hide some of the string detail. If anything, the SyS could be a little too perfectly in tune and perfectly timed. I would turn up the humanization controls in VI Pro to increase timing and tuning differences a bit and back off on the close mics. In a mix with the rest of the instruments, my guess is that 99 out of 100 VI-Control members would have trouble telling the difference between SyS and the real thing. I know I would. It sounds great.



OMG...some of you lives in a bubble world. I'd say 99 of 100 VI control members would have trouble telling the difference between SyS and Garritan here. And I don't think it's mainly the library fault.. it's the really bad programming skills. Sorry but someone has to be honest here.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Critz said:


> OMG...some of you lives in a bubble world. I'd say 99 of 100 VI control members would have trouble telling the difference between SyS and Garritan here. And I don't think it's mainly the library fault.. it's the really bad programming skills. Sorry but someone has to be honest here.



Perhaps you could honor us poor pitiful simple folks with a track using SyS that exemplifies excellence in programming skills? Please?


----------



## mikeh-375

Sorry to say that Critz is absolutely correct. It does not sound great at all nor is it truly representative of the product, which although might have a few teething troubles, deserves better showcasing. Better programming was done a few pages back with the pizzicato track (sorry, no time to find and reference it and the programmer) - now that sounded a little more like the real thing and more representative of what it can potentially do. 
Wbacer, I'm not picking on you at all as you are probably still learning (aren't we all?), so keep listening to the real deal and going for it...


----------



## T.j.

Paul T McGraw said:


> The primary difference is the mix. The live version uses more decca and less close mics. And of course you have the other instruments which hide some of the string detail. If anything, the SyS could be a little too perfectly in tune and perfectly timed. I would turn up the humanization controls in VI Pro to increase timing and tuning differences a bit and back off on the close mics. In a mix with the rest of the instruments, my guess is that 99 out of 100 VI-Control members would have trouble telling the difference between SyS and the real thing. I know I would. It sounds great.



Plenty of great sounding mock-ups that use close micing.
The issue is that it sounds like it was programmed by a robot; on a grid with no dynamics and no expression.
No amount of 'humanization' should be needed if the actual 'thing' is played by a human.
Learn to 'perform' your VI's as you would with any real instrument


----------



## Paul T McGraw

mikeh-375 said:


> Sorry to say that Critz is absolutely correct. It does not sound great at all nor is it truly representative of the product, which although might have a few teething troubles, deserves better showcasing. Better programming was done a few pages back with the pizzicato track (sorry, no time to find and reference it and the programmer) - now that sounded a little more like the real thing and more representative of what it can potentially do.
> Wbacer, I'm not picking on you at all as you are probably still learning (aren't we all?), so keep listening to the real deal and going for it...



Another nominee for production of an exceptional track steps forward. I am looking forward to hearing your track mikeh-375. Even just 16 bars would be such a kindness. Please, show us all how it should be done.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

T.j. said:


> Plenty of great sounding mock-ups that use close micing.
> The issue is that it sounds like it was programmed by a robot; on a grid with no dynamics and no expression.
> No amount of 'humanization' should be needed if the actual 'thing' is played by a human.
> Learn to 'perform' your VI's as you would with any real instrument



Awesome, show us how it should be done T.j.!


----------



## mikeh-375

Paul T McGraw said:


> Perhaps you could honor us poor pitiful simple folks with a track using SyS that exemplifies excellence in programming skills? Please?



Paul,
You have some undoubted skills, but don't back yourself into a corner here, it is not worth it. Any musician will tell you that the demo above is not realistic. I do not have synchron so I can't appease your sarcasm, but i do have plenty of experience. Why don't we just move on, why is this even continuing?


----------



## Paul T McGraw

mikeh-375 said:


> Paul,
> You have some undoubted skills, but don't back yourself into a corner here, it is not worth it. Any musician will tell you that the demo above is not realistic. I do not have synchron so I can't appease your sarcasm, but i do have plenty of experience. Why don't we just move on, why is this even continuing?



Actually I was serious. I don't like it when people are so mean to each other. Wouldn't it be a lot more productive to make suggestions for improvements, in a nice way? Why does everyone have to be so negative?

I have been to your site, you have a lot of composing chops. Your midi-performances sound very convincing. And yes, probably better than mine. So why not help instead of hurt? At least you were a lot nicer in your criticism than others. I grant you that.


----------



## T.j.

Paul T McGraw said:


> Awesome, show us how it should be done T.j.!



Everything you'll ever need is in this video (which is essentially 7 years old).
I'm assuming most people have seen it but just in case:


P.s I wasn't trying to put anyone down, that's a lot of effort and it should be applauded.
Now let's help each other get to the next level, and that has nothing to do with the sounds (anymore) and everything with bringing the 'human' element back into this digital world.


----------



## mikeh-375

excuse me Paul, but I was perfectly decent about it with an aplolgy for being honest and even encouraging wbacer to keep at it. Saying how things are even if a little unpalatable is better than saying it sounds great, which is misleading for development.
EDIT,
just read your acknowledgement re my posts being decent, so fair enough, enough said.


----------



## Sovereign

wbacer said:


> Although this goose is only half cooked, I though I'd take the full library out for a spin. When trying out a new library, there's nothing like putting it in context to see how fits with the rest of your template. For what it's worth, here's a little snippet from "Finding Nemo", composed by Thomas Newman.


Are you working from ear or score?


----------



## Paul T McGraw

mikeh-375 said:


> excuse me Paul, but I was perfectly decent about it with an aplolgy for being honest and even encouraging wbacer to keep at it. Saying how things are even if a little unpalatable is better than saying it sounds great, which is misleading for development.



Yes, you are correct. It just seemed that everyone was jumping on him without offering anything positive or any suggestions for improvements. All of us are learning. Including me. Especially me.


----------



## mikeh-375

me too...when the fuck does it end?


----------



## Ashermusic

A teacher gave me wise advice years ago that I sometimes forget to follow. When you are going to criticize something, first state something you like about it.


----------



## Critz

A short example of how the blur function improved the legato for slow passages, in my opinion. I added a couple of random runs at the end; I'm not happy of how this library handles runs at the moment (and there's not much we can do, differentely from Dimension Strings where humanizing delay and tuning helps a lot). I programmed automations for legato blur (so that the value is slower for fast passages), humanizing (tuning during the runs) and the slot fx to add the short layer during runs as well.
There's one file for the standard library mix plus a touch of MIR and a bit of limiting. The second file is the close mono mic alone (panned) 100% out of the box.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sw_cello_mix-mp3.11173/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sw_cello_close-mp3.11174/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/sw_cello_mix-mp3.11173/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/sw_cello_close-mp3.11174/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Casiquire

omiroad said:


> It's a minority opinion, but I love the sound of MIR. It works well here too.



I LOVE MIR myself. There are some venues that just add a magic polish to the sound of an orchestra.


----------



## amorphosynthesis

ka00 said:


> I’m trying to figure out what is making it not quite sound realistic, but I’m no expert.
> 
> Are the attacks and releases too long on the runs, making it sound too blurred to be real?
> 
> Here’s the original song:



I think its the runs


----------



## Eptesicus

amorphosynthesis said:


> I think its the runs



An immodium should do the trick


----------



## wbacer

amorphosynthesis said:


> is it my idea or it does indeed sound horrible?


Well, I'm just learning how to do this so thank you so much for your constructive comments.
Much appreciated.


----------



## wbacer

Sovereign said:


> Are you working from ear or score?


Both, also need to work on making my mockups more expressive...little by little.


----------



## Sovereign

Hadn't planned it, but spent a couple of hours today on Synchron testing the "blur" feature (cellos and violins). My concerns about a smooth legato haven't gone away however and I came away disappointed. Many of the notes still feel disconnected to me, there are imo still bumps and getting a real smooth lyrical violin line is hard and (to me) always disappoints in the end compared to what I'm able to get out of other libraries. Sometimes it's as if there's no legato there, with the transitions being so short and inaudible.

For testing I did a mockup of "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzzIFrVZxx0 (a new beginning)" by John Williams from the movie Minority Report, which is just a lovely string piece. It's the first 1 minute or so. I didn't have the score so had to do it by ear, any errors are mine. I'm putting up the midi file, so if anyone is interested you can try yourself with Synchron (or any other lib). Could have improved the midi more, but this should be sufficient. I'm also putting up a reference mockup I did with a different library.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/williams_newbeginning_st-mp3.11183/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## eli0s

Sovereign said:


> Hadn't planned it, but spent a couple of hours today on Synchron testing the "blur" feature (cellos and violins). My concerns about a smooth legato haven't gone away however and I came away disappointed. Many of the notes still feel disconnected to me, there are imo still bumps and getting a real smooth lyrical violin line is hard and (to me) always disappoints in the end compared to what I'm able to get out of other libraries. Sometimes it's as if there's no legato there, with the transitions being so short and inaudible.
> 
> For testing I did a mockup of "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzzIFrVZxx0 (a new beginning)" by John Williams from the movie Minority Report, which is just a lovely string piece. It's the first 1 minute or so. I didn't have the score so had to do it by ear, any errors are mine. I'm putting up the midi file, so if anyone is interested you can try yourself with Synchron (or any other lib). Could have improved the midi more, but this should be sufficient. I'm also putting up a reference mockup I did with a different library.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/williams_newbeginning_st-mp3.11183/][/AUDIOPLUS]


This is by far the best demo I've heard so far out of this library! To be honest, it doesn't sound like SyS! Excellent programing I guess! Bravo!


----------



## Saxer

Yepp, one of the best demos so far! Especially because the beginning is one of the hardest things to do for sample strings: legato ostinatos!
In comparison with the original it seems that the dynamic level of the original is one step below (pp for p - mp for mf etc). But that's more of an interpretation than a realism thing. Well done!


----------



## Casiquire

Sovereign said:


> Hadn't planned it, but spent a couple of hours today on Synchron testing the "blur" feature (cellos and violins). My concerns about a smooth legato haven't gone away however and I came away disappointed. Many of the notes still feel disconnected to me, there are imo still bumps and getting a real smooth lyrical violin line is hard and (to me) always disappoints in the end compared to what I'm able to get out of other libraries. Sometimes it's as if there's no legato there, with the transitions being so short and inaudible.
> 
> For testing I did a mockup of "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzzIFrVZxx0 (a new beginning)" by John Williams from the movie Minority Report, which is just a lovely string piece. It's the first 1 minute or so. I didn't have the score so had to do it by ear, any errors are mine. I'm putting up the midi file, so if anyone is interested you can try yourself with Synchron (or any other lib). Could have improved the midi more, but this should be sufficient. I'm also putting up a reference mockup I did with a different library.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/williams_newbeginning_st-mp3.11183/][/AUDIOPLUS]



This actually sounds really nice.


----------



## Sovereign

eli0s said:


> This is by far the best demo I've heard so far out of this library! To be honest, it doesn't sound like SyS! Excellent programing I guess! Bravo!


Eh, you do realise this is not SyS. Mentioned that in the last sentence, apologies if that wasn't clear enough.


----------



## eli0s

Uh, my bad!  Where is the SyS version then? And what library did you use in the version you posted (if you don't mind telling )?


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> Eh, you do realise this is not SyS. Mentioned that in the last sentence, apologies if that wasn't clear enough.



I think your post was a bit misleading, you didn't mention that you didn't use Sync. Strings to produce this demo. So, many assumed you did, hence the confusion. The demo sounds great !


----------



## Casiquire

Sovereign said:


> Eh, you do realise this is not SyS. Mentioned that in the last sentence, apologies if that wasn't clear enough.



Heh. That bit was lost on all of us lol.


----------



## Eptesicus

Sovereign said:


> Hadn't planned it, but spent a couple of hours today on Synchron testing the "blur" feature (cellos and violins). My concerns about a smooth legato haven't gone away however and I came away disappointed. Many of the notes still feel disconnected to me, there are imo still bumps and getting a real smooth lyrical violin line is hard and (to me) always disappoints in the end compared to what I'm able to get out of other libraries. Sometimes it's as if there's no legato there, with the transitions being so short and inaudible.
> 
> For testing I did a mockup of "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzzIFrVZxx0 (a new beginning)" by John Williams from the movie Minority Report, which is just a lovely string piece. It's the first 1 minute or so. I didn't have the score so had to do it by ear, any errors are mine. I'm putting up the midi file, so if anyone is interested you can try yourself with Synchron (or any other lib). Could have improved the midi more, but this should be sufficient. I'm also putting up a reference mockup I did with a different library.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/williams_newbeginning_st-mp3.11183/][/AUDIOPLUS]



That sounds really great in my opinion.

Edit - oh its not Synchron, what library is it then and where is the Syncrhon version you did?


----------



## ctsai89

Hahaa all the beef on this thread again

Critz thank you for being honest as always 

Make this thread great again


----------



## Sovereign

Sorry for the confusion again, that's why I uploaded the .mid so Synchron folks could have a go themselves. As for the library used, this is Soaring Strings.


----------



## Critz

Totally honestely I thought it could be Sys because it didn't convince me very much  . It was very well programmed (cheers to @Sovereign for that), but the "ostinato part" has clearly not round robin, and the sound is a bit boxed up imo.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Sovereign said:


> Hadn't planned it, but spent a couple of hours today on Synchron testing the "blur" feature (cellos and violins). My concerns about a smooth legato haven't gone away however and I came away disappointed. Many of the notes still feel disconnected to me, there are imo still bumps and getting a real smooth lyrical violin line is hard and (to me) always disappoints in the end compared to what I'm able to get out of other libraries. Sometimes it's as if there's no legato there, with the transitions being so short and inaudible.
> 
> For testing I did a mockup of "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzzIFrVZxx0 (a new beginning)" by John Williams from the movie Minority Report, which is just a lovely string piece. It's the first 1 minute or so. I didn't have the score so had to do it by ear, any errors are mine. I'm putting up the midi file, so if anyone is interested you can try yourself with Synchron (or any other lib). Could have improved the midi more, but this should be sufficient. I'm also putting up a reference mockup I did with a different library.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/williams_newbeginning_st-mp3.11183/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Nice.


----------



## Sovereign

Critz said:


> Totally honestely I thought it could be Sys because it didn't convince me very much  . It was very well programmed (cheers to @Sovereign for that), but the "ostinato part" has clearly not round robin, and the sound is a bit boxed up imo.


You'd think by now that libraries would surely have some form of round robin ostinato, but it's almost like it doesn't exist and/or they don't care. Even Synchron doesn't have it.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> You'd think by now that libraries would surely have some form of round robin ostinato, but it's almost like it doesn't exist and/or they don't care. Even Synchron doesn't have it.



I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'Round Robin Ostinato' ? if you use a staccato strings patch to create an ostinato phrase, doesn't SyS have lots of RRobins to create a convincing Ostinato ?


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Sounds great. I like how your vibrato stands out. Good job!


And it's a 4 gb library... with far more features than Synchron when it comes to sustain/legato patches (true rebowing, to silence, molto espressivo playing, real fff).


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> And it's a 4 gb library... with far more features than Synchron when it comes to sustain/legato patches (true rebowing, to silence, molto espressivo playing, real fff).



Each library emphasizes certain features. Synchron has a unique richness though.


----------



## muziksculp

@Guy Bacos ,

The 'Minority Report' demo is not produced using Synchron Strings, it's produced using Soaring Strings by Musical Sampling http://www.musicalsampling.com/soaring-strings/


----------



## Critz

Sovereign said:


> You'd think by now that libraries would surely have some form of round robin ostinato, but it's almost like it doesn't exist and/or they don't care. Even Synchron doesn't have it.


Spitfire has 2 rr I think, plus they offer fake rr with neightbour samples. Berlin offers a patch specific for ostinato. As you know Synchron has it but force you to use fast legato and it simply doesn't work, at least not to me.


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> I'm not sure about what you mean by 'Round Robin Ostinato' ? if you use a staccato strings patch to create an ostinato phrase, doesn't SyS have lots of RRobins to create a convincing Ostinato ?


Ah yes, that's true obviously for any library. The problem is alternating legato notes. Soaring Strings copes pretty well here imo, but it's still audible if you are aware of the 'problem'.


----------



## Guy Bacos

muziksculp said:


> @Guy Bacos ,
> 
> The 'Minority Report' demo is not produced using Synchron Strings, it's produced using Soaring Strings by Musical Sampling http://www.musicalsampling.com/soaring-strings/



I know, it's still nice.


----------



## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> I know, it's still nice.



Haha... I thought you didn't notice it's not Sync. Strings. 

Cool !


----------



## Sovereign

Guy Bacos said:


> Each library emphasizes certain features. Synchron has a unique richness though.


I've scrapped the idea that there will be one library to rule them all. I will simply purchase them all, if budget permits.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Each library emphasizes certain features. Synchron has a unique richness though.


Yes but imho a 400 gbs library should emphasizes a lot of features, not only richness (which I honestely don't understand the meaning tbh).


----------



## Guy Bacos

muziksculp said:


> Haha... I thought you didn't notice it's not Sync. Strings.
> 
> Cool !



So it's not VSL? Then it's garbage!

Kidding, of course.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> Ah yes, that's true obviously for any library. The problem is alternating legato notes. Soaring Strings copes pretty well here imo, but it's still audible if you are aware of the 'problem'.



I see, you are referring to creating Ostinato lines with Legato notes, Yes, that is an issue most of the time, if there is not an audible variation to make it sound realistic as notes repeat. our ears detect these details and signal that something is sounding fake. Even two RR are not enough to sound convincing.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Sovereign said:


> I've scrapped the idea that there will be one library to rule them all. I will simply purchase them all, if budget permits.



Even within VSL strings, Synchron strings is not there to replace dimension strings, they work differently. Dimension doesn't have the excellent sound of synchron stage, but maybe that might happen one day, dimension synchron. That would be cool.


----------



## NoamL

wbacer said:


> Although this goose is only half cooked, I though I'd take the full library out for a spin. When trying out a new library, there's nothing like putting it in context to see how fits with the rest of your template. For what it's worth, here's a little snippet from "Finding Nemo", composed by Thomas Newman.




I know this is "half cooked" before you really learn the library but I hear a lot of issues here. Primarily the usual string library problem where different articulations stick out from each other and don't blend to create a phrase. The runs are also accordiony and not connected: a big issue here is that we're hearing the reverb from each note in the run when in reality notes in a run don't ring out like that because the reverberant string length is changing through the run. Just like a guitar - when you hammer on the next note, the previous note doesn't keep reverberating! The sound you've created here is more similar to a koto or harp, and that creates an effect of unrealism.

The trill samples strike me as particularly unexciting and unmusical (again not different from many libraries...)

Similar issue in the string marcato example @novaburst posted earlier. The attack samples are clearly overlaid on the sustains and quite distinct.

There's a reason stuff like this isn't written much in VI World... it's a good example of something real strings can do in their sleep and samples struggle with.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Even within VSL strings, Synchron strings is not there to replace dimension strings, they work differently. Dimension doesn't have the excellent sound of synchron stage, but maybe that might happen one day, dimension synchron. That would be cool.


Yes! A 4 terabyte library  
Look out! A lot of users here could not get you are joking!


----------



## NoamL

Listening vs the real version @ka00 I hear the grace notes ringing out too much as well. Definitely try shortening the releases. Also what Paul said about using more Decca tree sound might have merit too.


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


> 4 TB will be no issue in the future.


The problem is not the size. The problem is that it's impossible to apply the concept of Dimension Strings to wet samples.
For example, how could you record different players at the same time in the Synchron Stage? If you put sound walls around every player you would basically kill the sound of the hall.


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


> The player recordings in dimension strings have the other players leaking in as well.


Yes but how much? Very little.


----------



## Guy Bacos

omiroad said:


> 4 TB will be no issue in the future.



Not too long ago, 25 GB for a complete string library was huge.


----------



## Eptesicus

Doesn't synchron have 6 variations in the fast legato patch for ostinato passages?


----------



## Eptesicus

Sovereign said:


> Sorry for the confusion again, that's why I uploaded the .mid so Synchron folks could have a go themselves. As for the library used, this is Soaring Strings.



What do you mean "synchron folks"? I thought you had the library and had done a mock up of this minority report thing to try out the legato blur? This is why that post of yours was so confusing.


----------



## Critz

Eptesicus said:


> Doesn't synchron have 6 variations in the fast legato patch for ostinato passages?


Yes, but I don't know why it doesn't work. I'm afraid the legato part has not variations? So you still have the machine gun effect. I'm just guessing here.


----------



## muziksculp

Critz said:


> Yes, but I don't know why it doesn't work. I'm afraid the legato part has not variations? So you still have the machine gun effect. I'm just guessing here.



Did you try asking about this on the VSL forum ?


----------



## Critz

muziksculp said:


> Did you try asking about this on the VSL forum ?


I will send an email to the support. I hope they could answer me.


----------



## Saxer

Guy Bacos said:


> Not too long ago, 25 GB for a complete string library was huge.


I remember the time when it was MB! Even KB!


----------



## muziksculp

Let's hope SSDs get more affordable, and offer more capacity options. Because we will have to factor in the price of large capacity SSDs into the cost of these very large libraries.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Saxer said:


> I remember the time when it was MB! Even KB!



I remember when a chocolate bar was 10 cents.


----------



## wbacer

NoamL said:


> I know this is "half cooked" before you really learn the library but I hear a lot of issues here. Primarily the usual string library problem where different articulations stick out from each other and don't blend to create a phrase. The runs are also accordiony and not connected: a big issue here is that we're hearing the reverb from each note in the run when in reality notes in a run don't ring out like that because the reverberant string length is changing through the run. Just like a guitar - when you hammer on the next note, the previous note doesn't keep reverberating! The sound you've created here is more similar to a koto or harp, and that creates an effect of unrealism.
> 
> The trill samples strike me as particularly unexciting and unmusical (again not different from many libraries...)
> 
> Similar issue in the string marcato example @novaburst posted earlier. The attack samples are clearly overlaid on the sustains and quite distinct.
> 
> There's a reason stuff like this isn't written much in VI World... it's a good example of something real strings can do in their sleep and samples struggle with.


Thanks @NoamL for your thoughtful feedback. Your mockups are amazing. There's a lot to learn in all of this.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> Let's hope SSDs get more affordable, and offer more capacity options. Because we will have to factor in the price of large capacity SSDs into the cost of these very large libraries.



Crucial SSD seem to be setting the trend for more affordable drives, 

Picked a 525G for, £112.00

A 480 G averages at about £135 to180.00


----------



## Lee Blaske

novaburst said:


> Crucial SSD seem to be setting the trend for more affordable drives,
> 
> Picked a 525G for, £112.00
> 
> A 480 G averages at about £135 to180.00



My brother works in that industry. He tells me prices are going to come down significantly this year.


----------



## Lotias

Critz said:


> Yes, but I don't know why it doesn't work. I'm afraid the legato part has not variations? So you still have the machine gun effect. I'm just guessing here.


Here is one thing I noticed when playing with performance trills in older libraries - if I hold on note and tap another rapidly (while holding the first note), the first note will always stay on the same round robin, leading to the machine gun effect. It's counter-intuitive because that's how a lot of people have learned to play trills quickly with VIs (see samplemodelling). You can see this by tracking which round robins it's playing, there's a little indicator above the dots. If I don't hold the first note and instead alternate my fingers, the proper round robins are played.


----------



## Critz

Lotias said:


> Here is one thing I noticed when playing with performance trills in older libraries - if I hold on note and tap another rapidly (while holding the first note), the first note will always stay on the same round robin, leading to the machine gun effect. It's counter-intuitive because that's how a lot of people have learned to play trills quickly with VIs (see samplemodelling). You can see this by tracking which round robins it's playing, there's a little indicator above the dots. If I don't hold the first note and instead alternate my fingers, the proper round robins are played.


You are perfectly right, I noticed that too in past VSL libraries. Btw the problem here still remains. I don't hold the first note. Is it only my thought or you also noticed that Synchron Strings are not capable of performing legato ostinatos as we all thought because of the variations?


----------



## Lotias

Critz said:


> You are perfectly right, I noticed that too in past VSL libraries. Btw the problem here still remains. I don't hold the first note. Is it only my thought or you also noticed that Synchron Strings are not capable of performing legato ostinatos as we all thought because of the variations?


Well I don't have the library, so don't look at me, it was just something I noticed from previous libraries. Since VSL is (seemingly) using purely sustain+legato samples this time around, I wonder if the sustain portion also comes with the repetitions. If the sustains themselves are not being played with any repetitions, that could lead to machine-gunning.


----------



## Tfis

Lotias said:


> Here is one thing I noticed when playing with performance trills in older libraries - if I hold on note and tap another rapidly (while holding the first note), the first note will always stay on the same round robin, leading to the machine gun effect. It's counter-intuitive because that's how a lot of people have learned to play trills quickly with VIs (see samplemodelling).



So people learnt it wrong.
Try your "technique" on a piano...not very trilling.


----------



## Tfis

I use a keyboard for my DAW.
You mean some kind of "polyphonic midi flute"?


----------



## holywilly

What are the mic combinations do you guys use? I use the ROOM MIX to compose today and found out that the sound is a bit too weak and lack of definition, and tried mixing the MAIN L-R and CLOSE with ROOM-MIX, it sounds more defined but they took too much memory.

I want to use 2 mic positions, any suggestions on which 2 for lush and more defined sound?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

holywilly said:


> What are the mic combinations do you guys use? I use the ROOM MIX to compose today and found out that the sound is a bit too weak and lack of definition, and tried mixing the MAIN L-R and CLOSE with ROOM-MIX, it sounds more defined but they took too much memory.
> 
> I want to use 2 mic positions, any suggestions on which 2 for lush and more defined sound?



I'm still experimenting, which hopefully will become more feasible once the Synchron Player is out. Right now, it's a major PITA to play around with mic positions, as you're required to drag and drop every single mic of every single articulation. I really hope that the new player has an automated way of loading ALL mic positions of a patch into a given cell and a one-click way of enabling and disabling a mic position globally for the whole instrument - just like Kontakt does.

But anyways, right now, I'm liking a blend of the ROOM MIX and the MID L-R positions. Both at -6 Db sound like a nice blend of ambient sound and close detail.

ROOM MIX + MAIN L-R doesn't really make sense, because the MAIN L-R is the decca tree position that's in fact already baked into the ROOM MIX position.


----------



## holywilly

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I'm still experimenting, which hopefully will become more feasible once the Synchron Player is out. Right now, it's a major PITA to play around with mic positions, as you're required to drag and drop every single mic of every single articulation. I really hope that the new player has an automated way of loading ALL mic positions of a patch into a given cell and a one-click way of enabling and disabling a mic position globally for the whole instrument - just like Kontakt does.
> 
> But anyways, right now, I'm liking a blend of the ROOM MIX and the MID L-R positions. Both at -6 Db sound like a nice blend of ambient sound and close detail.
> 
> ROOM MIX + MAIN L-R doesn't really make sense, because the MAIN L-R is the decca tree position that's in fact already baked into the ROOM MIX position.



Awesome, thanks for your reply. I’ll try blending ROOM MIX with MID L-R tomorrow as you suggested. 

Really hope that the synchron player will make everything easy to work with. It took me too much time building the preset (multiple mics) for each string section.


----------



## C-Wave

wbacer said:


> Thanks @NoamL for your thoughtful feedback. Your mockups are amazing. There's a lot to learn in all of this.


@NoamL too ..
Thanks for such great feedback.. more of us, who’s experience with orchestras is only digital recordings and these samples, constitute the bulk of vi-control audience and would greatly benefit from such critique than hearing general negative responses that don’t add up to real practical advice. More in depth and to the point like this one guys .. pretty please!


----------



## Casiquire

As for the round robin concerns, I agree libraries need to do better in that respect, but in the meantime doesn't Synchron have four legato types? I'd imagine that between having eight dynamic layers (so bump up to the next higher and the next lower layer and you have new samples) and having four legato types (at least one or two other legatos should sound close enough) you have enough alternate samples, right?


----------



## Critz

Casiquire said:


> As for the round robin concerns, I agree libraries need to do better in that respect, but in the meantime doesn't Synchron have four legato types? I'd imagine that between having eight dynamic layers (so bump up to the next higher and the next lower layer and you have new samples) and having four legato types (at least one or two other legatos should sound close enough) you have enough alternate samples, right?


I don't think we have different notes for the different legato patches. I suppose only the legato transition changes from patch to patch. And there's no sense in switching between regular, slur and fast during an ostinato, because even if the gun-effect would disappear, it would sound unnatural. 4 different legatos weren't meant to be used as round robin.


----------



## Casiquire

Critz said:


> I don't think we have different notes for the different legato patches. I suppose only the legato transition changes from patch to patch. And there's no sense in switching between regular, slur and fast during an ostinato, because even if the gun-effect would disappear, it would sound unnatural. 4 different legatos weren't meant to be used as round robin.



Not sure I agree, I do it in LASS all the time and it sounds great. Switch to a portamento, increase the time slider all the way, and it sounds like a new legato sample.


----------



## Critz

Casiquire said:


> Not sure I agree, I do it in LASS all the time and it sounds great. Switch to a portamento, increase the time slider all the way, and it sounds like a new legato sample.



From the product page:

Long notes – vibrato/no vibrato/lyrical 8/8/5 velocity layers, 10 variations
Sforzando, vibrato/no vibrato/lyrical 4 velocity layers, 4 variations
Fortepiano, vibrato/no vibrato/lyrical 4 velocity layers, 4 variations
Legato – fast, vibrato/no vibrato/lyrical 8/8/5 velocity layers, 6 variations

Do you have an idea how much memory takes that stuff? On the paper looks brilliant, something that should do the job for me. I don't want to lose my time programming if I have those features.


----------



## Erik

What a coincidence, http://www.erikotte.nl/temp2018/MinorityReportSY.mp3 (here my two cents), just finished...
I used to VSL Orchestra violas btw.


----------



## Critz

Ar


ka00 said:


> Here's @Sovereign's "A New Beginning" mockup, this time done using Synchron Strings. Please note, the viola ostinato that starts off the top (and plays throughout) is a Berlin Strings viola legato patch, because the Synchron Strings viola legato patch hasn't yet been released.
> 
> I didn't modify Sovereign's excellent midi.
> Violins use the Leg-Soft_Vib patch and mix the Main preset and the Close preset. I have legato blur set to 89.
> The high violin part near the end is with the Main preset panned a bit to the left and has legato blur set to 89 as well.
> 
> I debated this, but decided to add some lexicon reverb to everything so that it gels better. If there's a massive outcry about this, my apologies, and I'll post a dry version. Again, I'm no expert so take this for what it is.
> 
> BTW: @Sovereign I'm using every ounce of will power I have left to not buy Soaring Strings after your demo.



Are you sure you set the blur to 89?? Did you set it for all the mic positions? Sounds so disconnected..
Also..a midi could be even perfectly programmed, but if it's been programmed for another library you can't just use it as it.


----------



## Eptesicus

Not to be rude, but can we at least have an effort to make sure everything is at least in time! 

I will try to do my own mock of this tomorrow as i have the day off work.


----------



## Eptesicus

ka00 said:


> Yeah, great idea. Looking forward to it. I honestly can't tell that it's out of time and I have yet to hear the original soundtrack version of this cue.



Did you change the timing of the midi/delay of the notes to suit Synchron's legato intervals?

I actually think the violin part before the whole section comes in in yours sounds quite nice in places. It sort of gets very messy after that though.


----------



## Lotias

Tfis said:


> So people learnt it wrong.
> Try your "technique" on a piano...not very trilling.


That's how it plays on certain legato sample libraries. Nowhere did I say that's how a real piano plays.


----------



## Vadium

in my opinion, the best "legato" patch in SyStrings at current state of library is no legato patches, but "long notes soft" patch.. It more close to target legato sound, that I want to listen.. I am not see, that "legato blur" feature improves anything..


----------



## Eptesicus

Ok so here is my mock up of the minority report thing.

Note that i haven't even bothered to download anything other than violin 1 and cello yet so this is purely using those two. Therefore there is point where there is slight phasing on one of the violin notes when the 1st and 2nds play together. The viola stuff is therefore played by the cellos

No doubt with the full ensemble legatos i could do a better job but personally i think it sounds pretty good, especially the cellos. Obviously it is missing the low bass though.

They key is to alternate between the different legato transitions. Here i used fast and slurred with the cellos, and soft and slurred with the violins. I think you get a less mechanical and more expressive sound that way

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/minority-report-synchron-mp3.11227/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Critz

Eptesicus said:


> Ok so here is my mock up of the minority report thing.
> 
> Note that i haven't even bothered to download anything other than violin 1 and cello yet so this is purely using those two. Therefore there is point where there is slight phasing on one of the violin notes when the 1st and 2nds play together. The viola stuff is therefore played by the cellos
> 
> No doubt with the full ensemble legatos i could do a better job but personally i think it sounds pretty good, especially the cellos. Obviously it is missing the low bass though.
> 
> They key is to alternate between the different legato transitions. Here i used fast and slurred with the cellos, and soft and slurred with the violins. I think you get a less mechanical and more expressive sound that way
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/minority-report-synchron-mp3.11227/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Sounds like a good job, but Do you hear how cellos go up and down in the volume in that figure? It gives me seasickness. It's like being on reller coaster. It's not your fault. Is the library. The blur should help a bit here thought.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> Sounds like a good job, but Do you hear how cellos go up and down in the volume in that figure? It gives me seasickness. It's like being on reller coaster. It's not your fault. Is the library. The blur should help a bit here thought.



yea I hear it. Also a bit of a nasal tone almost as if the reverb was room mode phasing or something similar to LASS's. 

Really not bad overall though.


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


>


I meant he did well with the programming. But the library is what it is..


----------



## muziksculp

Critz said:


> I meant he did well with the programming. But the library is what it is..



I really don't see the point in evaluating this library when it is a work in progress, and not a completely done library.

All this is doing is giving wrong/negative impressions, and publicity about Synchron Strings.


----------



## Critz

muziksculp said:


> I really don't see the point in evaluating this library when it is a work in progress, and not a completely done library.
> 
> All this is doing is giving wrong/negative impressions, and publicity about Synchron Strings.


First, is not our fault, if you are right. 
But most of all, I'm afraid you are overestimating the improvments Synchron Player will take to the library. It will not change how players recorded. It will make things easier, not better.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> First, is not our fault, if you are right.
> But most of all, I'm afraid you are overestimating the improvments Synchron Player will take to the library. It will not change how players recorded. It will make things easier, not better.



that sounds about right and exactly what I was goign to say..


----------



## Casiquire

Critz said:


> From the product page:
> 
> Long notes – vibrato/no vibrato/lyrical 8/8/5 velocity layers, 10 variations
> Sforzando, vibrato/no vibrato/lyrical 4 velocity layers, 4 variations
> Fortepiano, vibrato/no vibrato/lyrical 4 velocity layers, 4 variations
> Legato – fast, vibrato/no vibrato/lyrical 8/8/5 velocity layers, 6 variations
> 
> Do you have an idea how much memory takes that stuff? On the paper looks brilliant, something that should do the job for me. I don't want to lose my time programming if I have those features.



That's a change of subject though. Every part of it takes memory. It takes memory to load up any articulations, and I can't imagine having a library with four legato types and not loading up at least two. The point still is that there can be variation. Plus as I also mentioned with neighboring dynamic layers there really is a decent amount of variety that would work.

Other libraries use neighboring transition samples but to my ears that sounds much more unnatural than my suggestions.


----------



## muziksculp

Critz said:


> First, is not our fault, if you are right.
> But most of all, I'm afraid you are overestimating the improvments Synchron Player will take to the library. It will not change how players recorded. It will make things easier, not better.



And possibly you are _underestimating_ the improvements that will happen as the library is completed. As is, this is an unfinished product.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> And possibly you are _underestimating_ the improvements that will happen as the library is completed. As is, this is an unfinished product.



I agree, and we've seen significantly better examples of the library as time goes by and we don't even have half the legato samples, but people who made up their minds are still determined to maintain the same tone in response to it regardless of the quality of the particular sample and maintain the same unwillingness to accept that it isn't fully out.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Mousavi said:


> But in my opinion, the slur legato is acceptable. Actually, I think the "long notes soft" is not true choice in the following example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Synchron Strings*: (Performed without any legato!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Soaring Strings*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .




Soaring strings is really nice here. Such a warm tone, lovely. Also the legato for this kind of sound is really smooth.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Casiquire said:


> I agree, and we've seen significantly better examples of the library as time goes by and we don't even have half the legato samples, but people who made up their minds are still determined to maintain the same tone in response to it regardless of the quality of the particular sample and maintain the same unwillingness to accept that it isn't fully out.



Yeah, there seems to be some competitive nagging going on here.

Every time someone loads up something they put together in 2.5 minutes and there's careless programming or a bad CC curve in measure 5, instantly all these glaring faults in the recordings, tone or scripting are detected. Comes off silly as hell.

I can't yet pass a final verdict on the legato patches and what the blur slider does to them, because I haven't had time to really experiment with them enough, but my first impression is that it's a considerable improvement. Either way, I can see the criticism towards legato and my personal expectation is that it will end up being OK, while most certainly not "legato re-invented".

But everything else ... come on. The tone is fantastic, the room sounds great, the recordings are pristine and precise and there's nothing wrong with the libraries' behavior or overall scripting whatsoever. For some reason, it seems to a be a sport to talk up all kinds of faults with this lib, while elsewhere, bum notes, inconsistencies, erratic scripting and fruity samples are being celebrated as "character".


----------



## FriFlo

I really like the minority report sample you guys picked here! It is a good example of how most libraries kind of suck, when they are exposed to one section playing like in the beginning - as soon as the Violins kick in, it gets a little bit more acceptable and finally with the full ensemble you could sometimes forget those are samples when it is well done. The Soaring strings work really well, although the legato is miles off from the original. Yet, it sounds smooth, organic and ... good, I suppose. The other thing that piece perfectly demonstrates: multiple legato RRs are a necessity to make that piece work as a mockup (a huge weakness with Soaring strings as well)! Such a shame, that this did not fit into the huge 400 Gb Synchron library. It could have made a huge difference and - indeed - a new benchmark in legato samples! Much more than 8 velocity layers. I will continue to watch what VSL is gonna do about the current lack of enthusiasm for most people ... right now, I feel no motivation to spend much time with this unfinished product. I hope they learned from the mistakes they made in that regard!


----------



## Casiquire

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Soaring strings is really nice here. Such a warm tone, lovely. Also the legato for this kind of sound is really smooth.



That example sounded wonderful to me


----------



## Tfis

Just downloaded,installed and playing around.
First: I like the sound

Double Bass: C4 sustains sound out of tune?

There's an obvious rebowing noise in the long and legato samples (all instruments).
Allthough that's natural and the way strings sound, I'm not sure if I won't prefer "smoother loops".

I heard almost no effect by using the A/B switch (normal release vs. mute release).
Fast runs? How do you do them? Slur legati don't seem to work.

The ViPro player is definitely overstrained to handle this library.

Looking forward to the synchron player and hope it delivers the "ease of use" VSL promised.

Did I say, that I like the sound?


----------



## Mousavi

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Soaring strings is really nice here. Such a warm tone, lovely. Also the legato for this kind of sound is really smooth.



Yes, Soaring strings is really nice!

*Performed by Sovereign !*


----------



## Critz

Tfis said:


> Just downloaded,installed and playing around.
> First: I like the sound
> 
> Double Bass: C4 sustains sound out of tune?
> 
> There's an obvious rebowing noise in the long and legato samples (all instruments).
> Allthough that's natural and the way strings sound, I'm not sure if I won't prefer "smoother loops".
> 
> I heard almost no effect by using the A/B switch (normal release vs. mute release).
> Fast runs? How do you do them? Slur legati don't seem to work.
> 
> The ViPro player is definitely overstrained to handle this library.
> 
> Looking forward to the synchron player and hope it delivers the "ease of use" VSL promised.
> 
> Did I say, that I like the sound?



Runs suck with Synchron. That's another shame. 400 gbs and you can't even try to write a decent run. Spitfire can, Berlin can, Soarins is acceptable, Synchron simply can't. Faster or slurred, same bad result.
Oh, but the new Synchron Player will make runs possible! That's for sure!!


----------



## ka00

For comparison with the SyS and SS versions elsewhere in this thread, here's a version of the Minority Report cue using CSS+CSSS.

Please excuse the occasional note or dynamic curve that's out of time. I still haven't looked into a way to automate the advanced legato delay offsets in Logic.

Gotta say though, the legato patches in this combo are my favourite.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/williams-a-new-beginning-css-and-csss-mp3.12247/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Eptesicus

Critz said:


> Runs suck with Synchron. That's another shame. 400 gbs and you can't even try to write a decent run. Spitfire can, Berlin can, Soarins is acceptable, Synchron simply can't. Faster or slurred, same bad result.
> Oh, but the new Synchron Player will make runs possible! That's for sure!!



To be honest, i haven't found any library that can do properly convincing runs.


----------



## N.Caffrey

ka00 said:


> For comparison with the SyS and SS versions elsewhere in this thread, here's a version of the Minority Report cue using CSS+CSSS.
> 
> Please excuse the occasional note or dynamic curve that's out of time. I still haven't looked into a way to automate the advanced legato delay offsets in Logic.
> 
> Gotta say though, the legato patches in this combo are my favourite.



On a completely different level!


----------



## Eptesicus

N.Caffrey said:


> On a completely different level!



Hardly. I reckon with the full legato sections and also layering it with a solo library (like in this example) Syncrhon could sound just as good.


----------



## GdT

Casiquire said:


> I agree, and we've seen significantly better examples of the library as time goes by and we don't even have half the legato samples, but people who made up their minds are still determined to maintain the same tone in response to it regardless of the quality of the particular sample and maintain the same unwillingness to accept that it isn't fully out.


Yes I agree. I have been following this thread from the beginning, but haven't read all of the 86 pages so far and I have been disappointed to read some of the negative comments. I have just installed Synchron Strings and it is going to take awhile to get to know it and use it effectively. If folks want something "cool" out of the box I suggest they get something like Yamaha or Korg keyboard.

What folks overlook is that according to sound engineers the colour of what you hear is mainly affected by the microphones used for recording and the loud speakers you listen on. Some folks are addicted to a retro valve tone and it they don't hear it they think it is plastic. Well if you like that there is a plugin can do it.

What folks here don't mention is that to get the best out of VSL libraries it is best to use MIR Pro and VSL Suite Pro.
MIR has many presets for all the instruments and a variety of preset tone colorations. It provides room ER reverb.
Also VSL Suite Pro has a set of presets for each instrument which also provide a variety of preset tone colorations. You can select the tone color appropriate to the mood. So if you don't like what you hear you can change it.


----------



## prodigalson

GdT said:


> What folks here don't mention is that to get the best out of VSL libraries it is best to use MIR Pro and VSL Suite Pro.
> MIR has many presets for all the instruments and a variety of preset tone colorations. It provides room ER reverb.
> Also VSL Suite Pro has a set of presets for each instrument which also provide a variety of preset tone colorations. You can select the tone color appropriate to the mood. So if you don't like what you hear you can change it.



Isn't the whole point of this library that it is recorded in an ambient environment and so DOESN'T need MIR Pro or ERs?


----------



## Eptesicus

prodigalson said:


> Isn't the whole point of this library that it is recorded in an ambient environment and so DOESN'T need MIR Pro or ERs?



To be honest, i think it is still quite dry and needs some extra reverb. It is a bit like Hollywood Strings - that sounds naff without any additional reverb.


----------



## jamwerks

Of course it's needs reverb, but MIR Pro isn't really the tool for that!


----------



## Critz

In fact you should add MIRacle or similar reverbs, not MIR.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Berlin Strings are not bad at this kinda stuff either, actually. Only did the very biginning of it.

http://www.simonravn.com/media/BS-MR-test.mp3


----------



## erica-grace

Mousavi said:


> .
> 
> 
> .




That sounds nice. Are you going to tell us what library that is, or is it a big secret?


----------



## Mousavi

erica-grace said:


> That sounds nice. Are you going to tell us what library that is, or is it a big secret?



Soaring Strings!


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


> If we're hard on Synchron, then while that's nicely done, it seems that Soaring lacks in depth of the stereo field. It sounds kinda mono and not all that full because of it.
> 
> Also, isn't this thread about Synchron anyway..?


I agree. Soaring reminds me to CSS. It's the same boxed up sound (in Soaring that feeling is much more evident); I wonder if this kind of sound/eq actually helps these libraries to achieve a legato feeling?


----------



## Casiquire

Mousavi said:


> *But in my opinion, legato patches in Synchron Strings are really dysfunctional to be in every situation !!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Synchron Strings*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Soaring Strings*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .




Why did you choose to attach an example that uses no legato to demonstrate that Synchron has bad legato?

What a frustrating thread lol


----------



## Eptesicus

Mousavi said:


> *But in my opinion, legato patches in Synchron Strings are really dysfunctional to be in every situation !!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Synchron Strings*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Soaring Strings*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .




What is the point in this. I ( see below) and others have already demonstrated the legato and it is not that bad. What use is doing a mock up without the legato patches and comparing it to legato patches from other libraries : /

If i am perfectly honest, i prefer my synchron mock up to the soaring strings one above and that is just using it in its limited capacity ( ie just violin 1 and cello).

I'm sure that once the full library is out and if i put more time into it i could make a really fantastic mock up of this with Synchron.



Eptesicus said:


> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/minority-report-synchron-mp3.11227/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Eptesicus

What is happening


----------



## ka00

If you say it three times in a row it becomes the indisputable truth, I guess.


----------



## C-Wave

prodigalson said:


> Isn't the whole point of this library that it is recorded in an ambient environment and so DOESN'T need MIR Pro or ERs?


Are you saying that you don't know the difference between room ambience and tone color?


----------



## Critz

We also have to say Synchron is the driest wet library ever made


----------



## Mousavi

Critz said:


> We also have to say Synchron is the driest wet library ever made



I agree.


----------



## Eptesicus

Critz said:


> We also have to say Synchron is the driest wet library ever made



This. It definitely needs some additional reverb.

No bad thing really though. Not a fan of really wet libraries.


----------



## prodigalson

C-Wave said:


> Are you saying that you don't know the difference between room ambience and tone color?



Not sure what point you're trying to make here but

A) it was a question

B) it was prompted by the quoted post implying that this was just like all other VSL Libraries and needed MIR Pro and ERs for ambience and stage positioning? I made no mention of tone color whatsoever. 

C) are you saying that you don't know the difference between a question and stated opinion? 

D) why is everyone's first impulse on this forum to attack everyone else?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> We also have to say Synchron is the driest wet library ever made



Which is great. It's tight, clear and sounds gorgeous with some smooth additional algo verb on top. Exactly the way it should be, and also the way it's done with many recordings as well.

It's not a "wet" library. It's an ambient library. I never understood why many people seemingly obsess over "wetness" so much. It's not the amount of tail and a huge wash of room sound that makes ambient libraries sound more believable and animated. It's more the spatial depth and how the sound itself resonates in the space, not how long and how rich it reverberates. SyS to me has the tightness and versatility it needs, but also provides a great sense of real space. It's the best of both worlds.


----------



## prodigalson

jamwerks said:


> Of course it's needs reverb, but MIR Pro isn't really the tool for that!



I never said it didn't need additional reverb. My question was based on my understanding that what set this apart from other VSL libraries was that it didn't need ERs and room ambience for room positioning. I thought that was the point of VSL recording these Synchron libraries


----------



## C-Wave

prodigalson said:


> D) why is everyone's first impulse on this forum to attack everyone else?


Err..
Was that a question? Confused by the question mark at the end of your.. ehm.. question?
Edit: sorry if I offended you.. I just want to add that, you know, after 1740 posts this thread has become less about the library and more about a reaction of reactions of reactions of reactions to the library.. shows how much time "composers" have on their hand


----------



## novaburst

Quite a few string library's here even O T Berlin Strings , while they do all sound quite nice I can hear quite a bit of depth and density in Synchron Strings that hasn't been matched as yet.

Could this be The HD recording VSL are talking about because its quit a big jump in sound quality.


----------



## prodigalson

C-Wave said:


> Err..
> Was that a question? Confused by the question mark at the end of your.. ehm.. question?
> Edit: sorry if I offended you.. I just want to add that, you know, after 1740 posts this thread has become less about the library and more about a reaction of reactions of reactions of reactions to the library.. shows how much time "composers" have on their hand



yes it was a question. a rhetorical one but a question nonetheless.

if you're so concerned about the direction of this thread and "reactions of reactions" maybe you shouldn't antagonize people by attacking legitimate questions with patronizing remarks that completely miss the point.


----------



## C-Wave

prodigalson said:


> yes it was a question. a rhetorical one but a question nonetheless.
> 
> if you're so concerned about the direction of this thread and "reactions of reactions" maybe you shouldn't antagonize people by attacking legitimate questions with patronizing remarks that completely miss the point.


Ok, since i’m “An antagonizer” I retract my apology.. go play with another kid.l’ll simply ignore your posts.. kid.


----------



## C-Wave

novaburst said:


> Quite a few string library's here even O T Berlin Strings , while they do all sound quite nice I can hear quite a bit of depth and density in Synchron Strings that hasn't been matched as yet.
> 
> Could this be The HD recording VSL are talking about because its quit a big jump in sound quality.


I do wish someone, hopefully VSL, would step in with a comparison between a stereo mix and a full library down mixed to stereo.. the special January upgrade is tempting me too but have no current need for surround.


----------



## Tfis

Two weeks to NAMM, where the Synchron Player will be introduced.
(I hope they don't meant summer NAMM :D)


----------



## leonardo

C-Wave said:


> Ok, since i’m “An antagonizer” I retract my apology.. go play with another kid.l’ll simply ignore your posts.. kid.


C-Wave, with remarks like this and the unnecessarily patronizing answer to the question of prodigalson before you are part of the people who contribute to the escalation of this thread. That's neither nice nor professional.


----------



## C-Wave

leonardo said:


> C-Wave, with remarks like this and the unnecessarily patronizing answer to the question of prodigalson before you are part of the people who contribute to the escalation of this thread. That's neither nice nor professional.


I agree.. so I apologized and he/she chose to keep venting. So I apologize again if I offended anyone.. but I hardly think it is “nice” that my apology is not appreciated.
So, I responded by a similar technical question. Now if his question was a real question why shouldn’t my question be treated as a question rather than a statement. Still I apologized for presuming it is otherwise.. just in case I misjudged him.
Again, I apologized (mainly out of self respect) because I presumed he is asking a technical question that I considered, in the spirit of this thread which is mainly critical of VSL Synchron Strings, as being again a statement.
Now where in that you think I was not being nice or professional?
Edited for clarity.. less someone jump on me again!


----------



## Simon Ravn

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Which is great. It's tight, clear and sounds gorgeous with some smooth additional algo verb on top. Exactly the way it should be, and also the way it's done with many recordings as well.
> 
> It's not a "wet" library. It's an ambient library. I never understood why many people seemingly obsess over "wetness" so much. It's not the amount of tail and a huge wash of room sound that makes ambient libraries sound more believable and animated. It's more the spatial depth and how the sound itself resonates in the space, not how long and how rich it reverberates. SyS to me has the tightness and versatility it needs, but also provides a great sense of real space. It's the best of both worlds.


Gorgeous? Lol...


----------



## Simon Ravn

novaburst said:


> Quite a few string library's here even O T Berlin Strings , while they do all sound quite nice I can hear quite a bit of depth and density in Synchron Strings that hasn't been matched as yet.
> 
> Could this be The HD recording VSL are talking about because its quit a big jump in sound quality.


Yes they sound quite a bit nicer than Synchron. But Synchron is HD! So it must be better... Maybe it will even be super HD - maybe 8k or 16k... maybe we should stop falling for marketing BS like that.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> We also have to say Synchron is the driest wet library ever made



Very oxymoron


----------



## ctsai89

Soaring strings wow. Best legato strings I've heard so far.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Simon Ravn said:


> Gorgeous? Lol...



Each to their own I would say.


----------



## Simon Ravn

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Each to their own I would say.



Not really, no. There is a way to measure quality, and in this situation, realism. It is not purely subjective. And I think it has been said so many times in this thread that we know what the problem is with Synchron.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Simon Ravn said:


> Not really, no. There is a way to measure quality, and in this situation, realism. It is not purely subjective. And I think it has been said so many times in this thread that we know what the problem is with Synchron.



Yes, I know it and you are not wrong by saying it but sometimes it is also good just to leave someone alone and if he things the library is great then this is fine because it is how he feels. I think in this thread everybody has already said all the things and problems with SS at least twice if not more. I dont want to forbid you having an opinion, of course not. We all have different views on a subject. I just thought if that pro and contra battling brings anything new to the table. For me not really..


----------



## leonardo

C-Wave said:


> I agree.. so I apologized and he/she chose to keep venting. So I apologize again if I offended anyone.. but I hardly think it is “nice” that my apology is appreciated.
> So I responded by a similar technical question. Now if his question was a real question why shouldn’t my question be treated as a question rather than a statement. Still I apologized for presuming it is otherwise.. just in case I misjudged him.
> Again, I apologized (mainly out of self respect) because I presumed he is asking a technical question that I considered, in the spirit of this thread which is mainly critical of VSL Synchron Strings, as being again a statement.
> Now where in that you think I was not being not nice or professional?


Let's leave this argument, all is good.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Simon Ravn said:


> Not really, no. There is a way to measure quality, and in this situation, realism. It is not purely subjective. And I think it has been said so many times in this thread that we know what the problem is with Synchron.



Seems like I need to leave you to your objective truths.


----------



## Critz

The sad truth is that every time someone shares a mock up done with a whatever library that isn't Synchron , we all like it, especially for the legato result. When it's done with Synchron, it doesn't work very well even if it is well programmed, or it even just sucks when it is programmed by a less skilled user.


----------



## Critz

Mousavi said:


> I agree with you!
> 
> 
> 
> .



Yes Mousavi, we got your track 
It has some really nice moments, like the beginning. At the same time I personally really don't like some other moments where voices are too "stationary" and also I don't get some parallelisms of 4th that sound out of the style of the general composition. Ends of the OT.


----------



## Saxer

It's not very helpful to post mockups done with other libraries in the SyS thread if there's no version done with SyS to compare it with.


----------



## Saxer

Mousavi, can you please stop to post this track again and again? As a running gag it's done now and it's going to be embarrassing...


----------



## Saxer

Thanks.


----------



## Critz

Mousavi said:


> VSL
> 
> They didn't just take user feedback seriously. Actually, I do use other libraries such as Berlin Strings, Spitfire Audio Chamber Strings/Symphonic Strings and only reason I ever used anyone else was too much better legato script, short note attacks and huge detail sampled short/long articulations, etc.
> 
> 
> *.*


Just for my curiosity, do you own any VSL product?


----------



## C-Wave

Mousavi said:


> Vienna Dimension Strings


Anybody here tried laying out Dimension Strings on top of SS? Wow, I mean wow! Never heard this sound before and playability.. well let’s say i’m having lots of fun.
Sorry SS haters is if this pisses you off but had to say this in case someone has both products.


----------



## EuropaWill

muziksculp said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'Round Robin Ostinato' ? if you use a staccato strings patch to create an ostinato phrase, doesn't SyS have lots of RRobins to create a convincing Ostinato ?



By its nature, an simple ostinato of two alternating notes is not a repeating single note so RR's don't get activated even though a library might have them. Hence the artificial sound that doesn't sound humanly played. I tried to see if legato ostinato's as featured in the Minority report example sounded convincing on my Dimension Strings and no, because every time it returns to the first note, it picks the same sample out of 3 possible ones. 

If Vienna Instruments Pro was smart it would give an option to always randomize or always sequentially use the samples for a particular matrix cell. I would then set that on one of the cells when i wanted to do this kind of thing and it would sound right. If it allowed something like this then each time you return to the first note it would sound slightly different, and therefore have a more realistic legato ostinato feel. 

If this feature already exists in VIPro, _please oh please_ someone tell me how to enable it! I would expect it to work especially well in DS since each instrument would have its own random 3 legato samples to pick from out of the RR pool per note.


----------



## Casiquire

Critz said:


> The sad truth is that every time someone shares a mock up done with a whatever library that isn't Synchron , we all like it, especially for the legato result. When it's done with Synchron, it doesn't work very well even if it is well programmed, or it even just sucks when it is programmed by a less skilled user.



Even that's not true. There have been a couple decent examples from SyS. However there's even more at play than just that: when someone posts a mockup with another library, it's one that they know intimately well, not one that we've played with for less than a month. AND it's the FULL LIBRARY in its proper player.


----------



## Eptesicus

Casiquire said:


> Even that's not true. There have been a couple decent examples from SyS. However there's even more at play than just that: when someone posts a mockup with another library, it's one that they know intimately well, not one that we've played with for less than a month. AND it's the FULL LIBRARY in its proper player.



This.

I did mine in about 30 mins using just cellos and violins 1 and was literally the 2nd or 3rd time i had had a little play with it.

I have no doubt that with more experience in using it, the Synchron player, and the full ensemble of legato patches, i could make a pretty realistic mock up of the MR thing.

Do i think Synchron is perfect though? No. 
Did it live up to my expectations? No, not yet.

It has a lot of things i like though and for the early bird price + voucher offer it was very reasonable price wise.

I am reserving full judgement on it until the proper player that it was designed for is out and until the whole library is released.


----------



## Sovereign

Casiquire said:


> when someone posts a mockup with another library, it's one that they know intimately well, not one that we've played with for less than a month.


Eh, I bought Soaring Strings on the 7th of January. I posted the mockup on the 7th of January, I think two or three hours later.


----------



## ludini

EuropaWill said:


> By its nature, an simple ostinato of two alternating notes is not a repeating single note so RR's don't get activated even though a library might have them. Hence the artificial sound that doesn't sound humanly played. I tried to see if legato ostinato's as featured in the Minority report example sounded convincing on my Dimension Strings and no, because every time it returns to the first note, it picks the same sample out of 3 possible ones.
> 
> If Vienna Instruments Pro was smart it would give an option to always randomize or always sequentially use the samples for a particular matrix cell. I would then set that on one of the cells when i wanted to do this kind of thing and it would sound right. If it allowed something like this then each time you return to the first note it would sound slightly different, and therefore have a more realistic legato ostinato feel.
> 
> If this feature already exists in VIPro, _please oh please_ someone tell me how to enable it! I would expect it to work especially well in DS since each instrument would have its own random 3 legato samples to pick from out of the RR pool per note.



It's possible to do this quite easily in VIPro. 

You have to do the following:
Create a new matrix and put your legato patch in it.
Now for every RRSample the patch has create a copy of that patch along the x axis.
Set every instance of that patch to use only one of the available RRSamples, for each cell a different one.
Lastly set the X-Axis switching mode to sequential.
This will make the VIPro cycle through the cells of the x axis an thus cycle through the different RRSamples. 

Hope this helps!


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> The sad truth is that every time someone shares a mock up done with a whatever library that isn't Synchron , we all like it, especially for the legato result. When it's done with Synchron, it doesn't work very well even if it is well programmed, or it even just sucks when it is programmed by a less skilled user.



I guess the truth is not every one voices their opinions when something is not liked, the general feeling is with mankind is momentum normally wins so people will say the safe thing because its simply popular.

Not a lot of people like to walk against the tide, or into the wind even if the truth is in that direction its a simple fact about humans.

One simple truth has been opened here and that is the best of the rest *(String Library's)* has been placed up against Synchron Strings and this library even in its incomplete state has stood its ground against them all especially in sound and tone *(its fresh, honest, and not boring).

VSL is very unpopular on this forum* and it would be bazar to not think that this is a big opportunity to throw mud at VSLs work it is very clear that there is a lot of hating going on (*that has gone beyond reason)*. 

Synchron Stings has surpassed a lot of the boredom out there, and I would also say even *HWS* has not been surpassed that much.

VSL has done a great job and I wish they will continue with the Synchron products it so needed in this sample world, they certain are breathing fresh life into this sample world.


----------



## C-Wave

ka00 said:


> OMG, this is the third time you posted the exact same thing. I'm starting to feel the way William from the VSL thread must have felt. Wait, William, is that you? Are you actually just revenge trolling this thread? It’s working!


Lol.. it sure is.


----------



## EuropaWill

ludini said:


> It's possible to do this quite easily in VIPro.
> 
> You have to do the following:
> Create a new matrix and put your legato patch in it.
> Now for every RRSample the patch has create a copy of that patch along the x axis.
> Set every instance of that patch to use only one of the available RRSamples, for each cell a different one.
> Lastly set the X-Axis switching mode to sequential.
> This will make the VIPro cycle through the cells of the x axis an thus cycle through the different RRSamples.
> 
> Hope this helps!


Thank you Ludini....that's inventive, though it takes up valuable cells in a matrix which I use for other articulations. I'm curious enough to try this to see if it sequential fixes the mechanical sound of the two note alternating ostinatos and will report back. 

Your work around takes a bit of messing with and it would be MUCH easier if there was a right click option per cell or instrument on how to deal with RR. 

Does anyone have a different way of dealing with this?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

After everybody has said everything in one or another way, we should start play Bingo and Gamble. I bet the thread will get 100 Pages prior 1st of Februar. The Wager is at least one bottle of a traditional beer. Mine is 3 Köstritzer Black Beer. Who bets closer to the date when this thread cracks the 100 wins my 3 Köstritzer Beers, if not I will win his prize. (What ever that is)


----------



## novaburst

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> The Wager is at least one bottle of a traditional beer. Mine is 3 Köstritzer Black Beer



Are you sure about this because that will be quite a bit of beer to give out when you have lost the bet, or is this here say.


----------



## synergy543

Alexander, is this virtual beer or real beer? Because I checked online and the closest store with that stuff is 342 miles away,... so its quite rare here. I might want a bottle. We'll easily hit 100 pages by Jan 20 (if not, I'll make sure of it.  )


----------



## EgM

EuropaWill said:


> Thank you Ludini....that's inventive, though it takes up valuable cells in a matrix which I use for other articulations. I'm curious enough to try this to see if it sequential fixes the mechanical sound of the two note alternating ostinatos and will report back.
> 
> Your work around takes a bit of messing with and it would be MUCH easier if there was a right click option per cell or instrument on how to deal with RR.
> 
> Does anyone have a different way of dealing with this?



In advanced, you can try raising the repetition threshold to something like 10s, that way if you play the same note, it'll continue from where it was in the chain rather than starting to rr1.


----------



## Sam Reed

EuropaWill said:


> Does anyone have a different way of dealing with this?



Hi EuropaWill,

I believe there is another way of dealing with this, though it's not as elegant as your "right click" feature request. I'm not at my rig so I can't test if I'm correct about this, but I believe in the Slot Editor "Advanced" Tab there is an option for "Repetition Threshold". If I'm not mistaken, setting this to a high value (perhaps 5 seconds in the case of the MR example, since there are only 3 RRs for legato) on a patch with RRs, will ensure that every alternative is played before cycling back to the first. 

I could be wrong, in which case someone will correct me. 

You might wanna post your idea to the VSL forum as a feature request, sometimes they have incorporated user suggestions


----------



## Sam Reed

EgM said:


> In advanced, you can try raising the repetition threshold to something like 10s, that way if you play the same note, it'll continue from where it was in the chain rather than starting to rr1.



Eric beat me to it -- explained better and more concisely too. Bravo!


----------



## Casiquire

EuropaWill said:


> Thank you Ludini....that's inventive, though it takes up valuable cells in a matrix which I use for other articulations. I'm curious enough to try this to see if it sequential fixes the mechanical sound of the two note alternating ostinatos and will report back.
> 
> Your work around takes a bit of messing with and it would be MUCH easier if there was a right click option per cell or instrument on how to deal with RR.
> 
> Does anyone have a different way of dealing with this?



Well that's the whole VSL thing, isn't it? You have the tools, put them together how it works for you. Putting it together is extra work though, but once you've done that work it's almost like a personalized library


----------



## EuropaWill

Casiquire said:


> Well that's the whole VSL thing, isn't it? You have the tools, put them together how it works for you. Putting it together is extra work though, but once you've done that work it's almost like a personalized library


In theory perhaps. In practice I haven't found that to be the case mostly.

For example, I just tried both great suggestions (Ludini, eGm/SamReed) made today and neither worked. When changing the Repetition threshold, it doesn't work because the repetition threshold only gets triggered if the _same_ note is repeated, but on a two note alternating ostinato , each time i return to the original note (every second note played) it starts again from the first/default sample and the RR never triggers so the same initial sample gets triggered each time sounding artificial.

The other solution took about 100 mouse clicks and requires an entirely different instance of VI Pro and doesn't sound any better or even that different than the default. Perhaps that's because in that case the overriding artificial nature comes from my suspicion that in DS all legato transitions are sampled at one velocity layer which makes the transition sound too loud or bright when i have the velocity layer set to the softest. I'd expect a legato / portamento transition volume knob and that transition should be scripted to have a filter set to it so that it dulls on softer velocity layers. I believe SyS has a "blur" feature which may be a legato transition volume control?


----------



## Lotias

EuropaWill said:


> In theory perhaps. In practice I haven't found that to be the case mostly.
> 
> For example, I just tried both great suggestions (Ludini, eGm/SamReed) made today and neither worked. When changing the Repetition threshold, it doesn't work because the repetition threshold only gets triggered if the _same_ note is repeated, but on a two note alternating ostinato , each time i return to the original note (every second note played) it starts again from the first/default sample and the RR never triggers so the same initial sample gets triggered each time sounding artificial.
> 
> The other solution took about 100 mouse clicks and requires an entirely different instance of VI Pro and doesn't sound any better or even that different than the default. Perhaps that's because in that case the overriding artificial nature comes from my suspicion that in DS all legato transitions are sampled at one velocity layer which makes the transition sound too loud or bright when i have the velocity layer set to the softest. I'd expect a legato / portamento transition volume knob and that transition should be scripted to have a filter set to it so that it dulls on softer velocity layers. I believe SyS has a "blur" feature which may be a legato transition volume control?


How are you playing your trills? Most legato patches are sampled in around two dynamic layers in older libraries.
The reason I ask the question is to direct you to a previous post by me:


> Here is one thing I noticed when playing with performance trills in older libraries - if I hold on note and tap another rapidly (while holding the first note), the first note will always stay on the same round robin, leading to the machine gun effect. It's counter-intuitive because that's how a lot of people have learned to play trills quickly with VIs (see samplemodelling). You can see this by tracking which round robins it's playing, there's a little indicator above the dots. If I don't hold the first note and instead alternate my fingers, the proper round robins are played.


You are using performance trills, right? They are the patches that have round robin legato samples.


----------



## Sam Reed

EuropaWill said:


> ... I just tried both great suggestions (Ludini, eGm/SamReed) made today and neither worked. When changing the Repetition threshold, it doesn't work because the repetition threshold only gets triggered if the _same_ note is repeated...



That sucks. I'm in the middle of a Major Template Overhaul  and was hoping to incorporate these ideas when I got back to my rig. If you own another VSL strings library you could try Ludini's method (x-axis sequential), but drop in a patch from another VSL library, so that for example you'd be alternating between DS Violas/Orchestra Violas. Gets complicated though if you're using separate instances for each player, spatial placement, etc.





EuropaWill said:


> ... my suspicion that in DS all legato transitions are sampled at one velocity layer...



If I'm reading the manual correctly, DS performance legatos and performance trill legatos were sampled at 4 velocity layers; performance-repetition legatos were sampled at 2 velocity layers.

I second Lotias' suggestion to experiment with the performance trills patches ... they don't actually play "trills" unless combined with the internal APP Sequencer. Let us know how the results turn out!


----------



## Lotias

Sam Reed said:


> ... they don't actually play "trills" unless combined with the internal APP Sequencer. Let us know how the results turn out!


Huh? I don't remember this being the case.


----------



## Lotias

omiroad said:


> Y-your icon... :c


Is this better?


----------



## Sam Reed

Lotias said:


> Huh? I don't remember this being the case.


Maybe something's weird with my setup? I remember being very confused by this fact the first time I fired up Dimension Strings. I'm in the middle of an overhaul so maybe I'll get it fixed during that process, but for me at present, DS performance trill patches don't play trills unless I load one of the APP trill sequence matrices.


----------



## Lotias

Sam Reed said:


> Maybe something's weird with my setup? I remember being very confused by this fact the first time I fired up Dimension Strings. I'm in the middle of an overhaul so maybe I'll get it fixed during that process, but for me at present, DS performance trills don't play trills unless I load one of the APP trill sequence matrices.


Again - how are you playing the trills? If you are holding one note while rapidly tapping the other, it will not play the proper round robins. You need to alternate both notes like you would on a real piano.


----------



## Sam Reed

Lotias said:


> Again - how are you playing the trills? If you are holding one note while rapidly tapping the other, it will not play the proper round robins. You need to alternate both notes like you would on a real piano.


Ah you're right, there's the rub. I'm not actually performing the trills; I use the trill APP matrices to in effect have dedicated "trill patches" triggered by keyswitch. That way I just play the bottom note of the trill and the APP does the rest. That clears up some minor confusion for me; thanks!


----------



## Lotias

omiroad said:


> Noo! It used to be cute! :cc


Well let's try to stay on the thread topic, I can't joke around too long.


----------



## Casiquire

omiroad said:


> Okay... this will do, I guess >.>
> 
> So about Synchron Strings... how are the um, pizzicatos?



LOL! Apparently wonderful but a little too precise


----------



## romantic

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> After everybody has said everything in one or another way, we should start play Bingo and Gamble. I bet the thread will get 100 Pages prior 1st of Februar. The Wager is at least one bottle of a traditional beer. Mine is 3 Köstritzer Black Beer. Who bets closer to the date when this thread cracks the 100 wins my 3 Köstritzer Beers, if not I will win his prize. (What ever that is)




As I don’t drink beer I will contribute a bottle of wine: https://www.weingutcobenzl.at/de/shop/weisswein/11/Gruener-Veltliner-Senator-2015

This wine produced in Vienna won several awards and trophies (wein.pur, Austrians best white wines, …). It is very smooth in lower registers and absolutely brilliant in the upper ones (but therefore lacks some sharpness).

Normally Vienna Wines are quite dry, but the “Senator Line” is aged a little and therefore has a little more baked in sweetness.

It blends pretty well with various food (my personal favorites would be fish or pasta with mushrooms). Vienna’s Major most favorite blending however would be a unison blending with sparkling water - then called “Spritzer”.

Vienna wine has excellent references with various famous composers. Beethoven even got inspired to write his 6th Symphony in Viennese wine yards.

Just don't consume to much, otherweise you Vision might have an increase "blured" vision and your walking style would be like slurred legato lines

Ok – there might be now some Vienna haters complaining that Beethoven was deaf, so eventually he also lost his taste so Vienna wines could not be good at all


----------



## Michael Antrum

It's now official - this thread has driven everyone to drink.....


----------



## Tfis

mikeybabes said:


> It's now official - this thread has driven everyone to drink.....


That's not fair!
I was alcoholic long time before.


----------



## Guy Bacos

2 more demos:

Unchained

Melody in F min


----------



## feck

romantic said:


> As I don’t drink beer I will contribute a bottle of wine: https://www.weingutcobenzl.at/de/shop/weisswein/11/Gruener-Veltliner-Senator-2015
> 
> This wine produced in Vienna won several awards and trophies (wein.pur, Austrians best white wines, …). It is very smooth in lower registers and absolutely brilliant in the upper ones (but therefore lacks some sharpness).
> 
> Normally Vienna Wines are quite dry, but the “Senator Line” is aged a little and therefore has a little more baked in sweetness.
> 
> It blends pretty well with various food (my personal favorites would be fish or pasta with mushrooms). Vienna’s Major most favorite blending however would be a unison blending with sparkling water - then called “Spritzer”.
> 
> Vienna wine has excellent references with various famous composers. Beethoven even got inspired to write his 6th Symphony in Viennese wine yards.
> 
> Just don't consume to much, otherweise you Vision might have an increase "blured" vision and your walking style would be like slurred legato lines
> 
> Ok – there might be now some Vienna haters complaining that Beethoven was deaf, so eventually he also lost his taste so Vienna wines could not be good at all


Stift Klosterneuburg all the way!


----------



## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> 2 more demos:
> 
> Unchained
> 
> Melody in F min



Hi Guy,

Both demos sound wonderful ! 

The Legatos are flowing very smoothly in both demos, and I love the dynamics of the strings, and short articulations, plus a nice surprise to hear the tremolos as well. Very realistic, and detailed sound, and beautiful string timbre. 

Just curious if you added any MIR, or Algorithmic Reverb to both these tracks in your mix ? 

Thanks for sharing 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Guy Bacos

muziksculp said:


> Hi Guy,
> 
> Both demos sound wonderful !
> 
> The Legatos are flowing very smoothly in both demos, and I love the dynamics of the strings, and short articulations, plus a nice surprise to hear the tremolos as well. Very realistic, and detailed sound, and beautiful string timbre.
> 
> Just curious if you added any MIR, or Algorithmic Reverb to both these tracks in your mix ?
> 
> Thanks for sharing
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Hi Muziksculp,

Thanks! Just some MIRacle added on both.


----------



## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> Hi Muziksculp,
> 
> Thanks! Just some MIRacle added on both.



That's Interesting. 

Thanks,
Muzikscup


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> 2 more demos:
> 
> Unchained
> 
> Melody in F min


The first part of "Unchained" is one of the most realistic mockup I heard. Starting from the first piano note. A really nice piece of music indeed. Then from 1:32, here we have the usual weak legato.
Also, some of the legatos i "Melody in F min" really doesn't work for me. For example at 0:15. and also 0:19. There's no natural connection between notes. There are also some weird bumps in the dynamic here and there (that's probably only my taste). But those strings lack in character for a track like that. There's any progression in the vibrato; and again, I really can't hear the advantage to have more dynamic layers. I would like to hear the difference but i really don't.


----------



## ctsai89

91 pages for this thread.

I have a new theory.

Vienna purposefully released their product uncompleted knowing that there will be more than enough to discuss in order for synchron to stay on top of the forum


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> 91 pages for this thread.
> 
> I have a new theory.
> 
> Vienna purposefully released their product uncompleted knowing that there will be more than enough to discuss in order for synchron to stay on top of the forum


On top of the forum to do what? To confirm to people that VSL sounds outdated?


----------



## storyteller

How I feel after missing a few days of posts in this thread and trying to catch up....







That said, I'm rooting for ya VSL!


----------



## Guy Bacos

You'd think if you don't like what you hear you would say it once and then just ignore the rest and move on to another thread, apparently not, and instead of being sarcastic, just don't buy it and respect the others who appreciate the great qualities of this library. Personally, I am very excited about the richness of the sound, the beautiful flautando, the flexibility of the staccato notes and so much more, and will have much fun composing with it.

Just had to say this. Nothing to see folks, keep moving.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I haven't heard much about the mic options, and how they sound in Synchron Strings, for both the Full , and Standard Libraries. The Full library offering more mic options.

i.e. @Guy Bacos : Are you using the Full version to produce the latest demos ?

Basically, I feel that not much has been discussed, and demonstrated, about the various mic options, mixing them, and how the strings differ sonically, when using the various mic options, I'm also hoping that the new Synchron Player will make mixing, and selecting various mic options nicer, and possibly faster in terms of workflow, and GUI experience.

Other Strings libraries from Spitfire, OT, 8dio, Cinematic Strings, ...etc. can sound quite different in terms of their character depending on how one mixes the various mic options, I'm guessing the same applies to VSL's Synchron Strings.

Here is the current chart showing the various Mics for the Full and the Standard versions of Synchron Strings :





Any feedback on this important detail would be interesting, and helpful.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## synergy543

@musiksculp - The Standard Library comes with a Room-Mix which is a stereo mix of all the mics including the surround as I understand. It not only sound excellent, but its also very low on resources compared with using all of the mics. I would recommend you try this first and see if it isn't everything that you need. More importantly, adding the right EQ and reverb make all the difference in the world IMO. Remember, these are raw sounds just as you would get recording in a world-class scoring stage and they need to be mixed properly. Shawn Murphy doesn't just recording the strings and throw them out there. They are processed with just the right spices, and that's why Shawn gets the big bucks. The recipe is simple though, and once you find one you like, its just a preset away.


----------



## muziksculp

synergy543 said:


> @musiksculp - The Standard Library comes with a Room-Mix which is a stereo mix of all the mics including the surround as I understand. It not only sound excellent, but its also very low on resources compared with using all of the mics. I would recommend you try this first and see if it isn't everything that you need. More importantly, adding the right EQ and reverb make all the difference in the world IMO. Remember, these are raw sounds just as you would get recording in a world-class scoring stage and they need to be mixed properly. Shawn Murphy doesn't just recording the strings and throw them out there. They are processed with just the right spices, and that's why Shawn gets the big bucks. The recipe is simple though, and once you find one you like, its just a preset away.



Hi synergy543,

Thanks for the feedback.

I have not installed Synchron Strings I, (I Pre-Purchased the Full version), I will not be installing it until the Synchron Player and the entire Full version Synchron Strings library is completed.

I know _Shawn Murphy_ was the recording engineer that EW used for their Orchestral Libraries, did VSL use him as their engineer as well for Synchron Strings ? or are you just giving an example ?

The use of the multiple mics should offer a lot of flexibility in creating the sonic character that one is seeking, or for the specific project at hand. I'm guessing The Room Mix of the Standard Library is just one option, but there is a lot more to discover, and experiment with by using multiple mic options, and especially the mixing of the additional mics the Full version offers, not having used this library yet, I am interested in hearing more about the experience of users with the various mics, especially the Full version.

According to VSL the new Synchron Player, Quote from their website :

_"Very soon, Synchron Strings I will be powered by the all-new Vienna Synchron Player, a dedicated sample player with a brand new engine built from the ground up. Its innovative new algorithms make it even more effortless to render strings with astounding realism.

Combining a number of microphone positions with a wealth of available velocity layers and note variations for each articulation requires a powerful sample engine. Our upcoming Synchron Player will deliver unprecedented streaming performance, able to trigger more than 300 voices per instrument simultaneously! The new engine will also come with an internal mixer with 5-band EQ, delay for runtime compensation, algorithmic reverb, phase switching and panorama controls."_

From this, I'm guessing we can conclude that the Synchron Player will be more suitable for use with the multiple mic options, and will also be able to stream more voices than the current VI-Pro 2, plus it will offer some additional mixing tools.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## synergy543

I was just using Shawn as an example. I think it was Dennis Sands that did the Conrad Popes Synchron recordings which you can download from his Soundcloud page for reference. Proper mixing makes all the difference in the world IMO.

If I had to guess, they made the Room-Mix from the preset with the full compliment of all the mics (including the matrix delays). Just a guess though. I have the Full version too, though I'll likely be using the Room-Mix most of the time. The differences in VSL mic positions is much more subtle than say Spitfire or OT. Together, they all sound far more beautiful than any single mic. However, so does the Room-Mix so thanks to VSL for providing this lovely time and resource saver! For me, this lets me focus on many more articulations as well as different instruments and I have 96G RAM. The time spent with different articulations has a bigger payoff as it allows for greater expression.

I don't know anything about the new Synchron Player, and if I did, and said anything, probably about five people would kill me. . The VI-Pro 2 is already quite powerful if you set your SSD buffers properly in the Directory Manager. You can stream quite a lot and get very fast load times. Plus you can sync across multiple instances when you change settings. Etc. They already added quite a lot and I'm not even sure what the new player could add. I'm quite pleased with what it does now, so whatever else the add will be icing on the cake.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi Synergy543,

Thanks for the additional helpful feedback. 

Yes, the current VI-Pro 2 is quite capable, and very flexible, but I don't know if it can stream more than 300 voices per instrument, simultaneously, which is what the Synchron Player will be able to stream. I'm also guessing that one can obtain a richer, fuller sound when using multiple mic options, compared to just using the Room-Mic. But that will require more efficiency from the player.


----------



## Casiquire

I actually really love the sound of the strings, and the new demos reinforce that. The flaw in Unchained so far is how silent things get between notes, I'd like a little more room. Otherwise no other library sounds like this and it's a pleasing, roomy but still dry sound.


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> I actually really love the sound of the strings, and the new demos reinforce that. The flaw in Unchained so far is how silent things get between notes, I'd like a little more room. Otherwise no other library sounds like this and it's a pleasing, roomy but still dry sound.



Hi Casiquire,

Are you saying you would like to hear more of the room, or ambient-tail of the notes when a note ends ? Just wanted to double check if I understood your statement above. 

Isn't this what the various mic options should offer ? more ambiance, which will be audible between the notes ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## jamwerks

So Dennis Sands engineered these samples?


----------



## leon chevalier

@muziksculp you will soon have the 100 pages golden badge on you picture like Mike Verta 

This is my little contribution to that great goal !


----------



## synergy543

jamwerks said:


> So Dennis Sands engineered these samples?


This is like that game at summer camp where everyone whispers the secret into the next person's ear and by the time it gets back to you, its absolutely hilarious. No, I didn't say Dennis Sands engineered these. Dennis Sands engineered the Conrad Pope examples that were recorded at the Synchron Stage which you can download from Conrad Pope's soundcloud website. These are a nice reference standard for the Synchron Stage. And I had used Shawn Murphy just as an example of someone who does a nice job mixing raw string sounds a you might get in the Sychron Strings that benefit from the same kind of mixing treatment. Synchron Strings were not meant to be used by themselves but processed as any strings recorded on a sound stage would be.

Folks, if you keep misreading and adding fake news, we'll too quickly surpass our Jan 20 100 page target and I'll not get my beer from Alexander Schiborr. Slow down please!


----------



## Guy Bacos

Casiquire said:


> I actually really love the sound of the strings, and the new demos reinforce that. The flaw in Unchained so far is how silent things get between notes, I'd like a little more room. Otherwise no other library sounds like this and it's a pleasing, roomy but still dry sound.



So far I haven't played around with the mic settings, but obviously one can personalize it to their own liking, and depending on the style of piece, the possibilities are infinite. I'm playing it safe for now, but will start exploring this side more in future demos.

@muziksculp, yes full.


----------



## jamwerks

synergy543 said:


> I didn't say Dennis Sands engineered these...


I didn't say you did. I just asked a question.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> You'd think if you don't like what you hear you would say it once and then just ignore the rest and move on to another thread, apparently not, and instead of being sarcastic, just don't buy it and respect the others who appreciate the great qualities of this library. Personally, I am very excited about the richness of the sound, the beautiful flautando, the flexibility of the staccato notes and so much more, and will have much fun composing with it.
> 
> Just had to say this. Nothing to see folks, keep moving.


We already have it.
And sorry if I point it out, but you implied there are stuff that doesn't work for you neither. Flautando, staccato..great. but this library is 400 gbs because there are 4 types of legato that are useless.
I didn't buy Synchron Flautandos. I bought a library that misses most common articulations but was meant to offer a re-invented legato.
There's no sarcasm from my side. Just disappointment.
Because when I see the main demo creator for vsl achieve my same (bad) results, no matter the quality of his compositions and skills), I lose any hopes about the future of this library.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Guy Bacos said:


> 2 more demos:
> 
> Unchained
> 
> Melody in F min



The clarity in the samples is very evident in "Unchained" (especially in the latter part, after the sul tastos which are good but easily rivaled by other libraries). The cellos+basses staccatos also seem pretty good, but the violins made me chuckle. Unfortunately the lack of life/vibrato in the sustains (and staccatos actually) is still very evident. And some of the x-fades between dynamics and releases sound very unnatural and abrupt, but that could be up to programming of course.

The clarity and definition is definitely amazing but still feels like a wasted opportunity.


----------



## Critz

Simon Ravn said:


> The clarity in the samples is very evident in "Unchained" (especially in the latter part, after the sul tastos which are good but easily rivaled by other libraries). The cellos+basses staccatos also seem pretty good, but the violins made me chuckle. Unfortunately the lack of life/vibrato in the sustains (and staccatos actually) is still very evident. And some of the x-fades between dynamics and releases sound very unnatural and abrupt, but that could be up to programming of course.
> 
> The clarity and definition is definitely amazing but still feels like a wasted opportunity.


This.


----------



## Guy Bacos

When you use the X Slot the variation from non vibrato to full vibrato is enormous in my opinion, but you must remember this is 14 violins, the vibrato will never stand out like a smaller group, the sound is more homogeneous. The 2nd violins are a smaller group and you could hear the vibrato stand out more, but the legatos aren't in yet for them. I'm sure if they do chamber synchron you will get strong vibratos.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> We already have it.
> And sorry if I point it out, but you implied there are stuff that doesn't work for you neither. Flautando, staccato..great. but this library is 400 gbs because there are 4 types of legato that are useless.
> I didn't buy Synchron Flautandos. I bought a library that misses most common articulations but was meant to offer a re-invented legato.
> There's no sarcasm from my side. Just disappointment.
> Because when I see the main demo creator for vsl achieve my same (bad) results, no matter the quality of his compositions and skills), I lose any hopes about the future of this library.



At this point, who cares though? Especially since you more than once made it clear that you categorically don't believe there's any room or possibility for improvement with this library, as well as the developer in general.

I get that it's 2018, and it's the internet and everything, but dealing with disappointments is part of life. I think I whined less about my divorce.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I think I whined less about my divorce.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> At this point, who cares though? Especially since you more than once made it clear that you categorically don't believe there's any room or possibility for improvement with this library, as well as the developer in general.
> 
> I get that it's 2018, and it's the internet and everything, but dealing with disappointments is part of life. I think I whined less about my divorce.


Communication is important for a relationship! Remember that next time :D


----------



## Simon Ravn

Guy Bacos said:


> When you use the X Slot the variation from non vibrato to full vibrato is enormous in my opinion, but you must remember this is 14 violins, the vibrato will never stand out like a smaller group, the sound is more homogeneous. The 2nd violins are a smaller group and you could hear the vibrato stand out more, but the legatos aren't in yet for them. I'm sure if they do chamber synchron you will get strong vibratos.



You can certainly have much more vibrato sound with 14 violins, just listen to a ton of film scores, or Hollywood Strings which I believe use even bigger sections. The custom library we did a while back also had tons more, which we explicitely asked the musicians for. I believe it was 12 violins. Those last two won't make the world of difference. I didn't hear "molto espressivo" in any of the sections, nor the cellos, in the pieces you did so I assume it isn't there.

Chamber size sections could definitely have more vibrato, but unfortunately this won't really help when you don't need those smaller sizes, and I still fear the same approach to recording samples will apply. Apassionata did have much more vibrato though, if I recall, so maybe there is still hope.


----------



## Lotias

The latest Vienna catalogue provides a (bit obscured) peek at the Synchron Player -





And also announces a "Synchron piano" - the Yamaha CFX, probably to release sometime 2018.
Catalog here


----------



## Critz

Exactly, sorry but this answer of the section size doesn't make any sense.
When I play Synchron Strings it sounds to me like if half of the player are vibrating and the other half are not.
So many users asked them to include molto vibrato... it was really that hard to give us the chance to have it with a such huge library.


----------



## Critz

Lotias said:


> The latest Vienna catalogue provides a (bit obscured) peek at the Synchron Player -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also announces a "Synchron piano" - the Yamaha CFX, probably to release sometime 2018.
> Catalog here


Looks like the "minimum requirement of manual keyswitches" will be respected as well!
I hope steinberg will update the Expression Maps, otherwise it will be hard to handle this approach of different keyswitches categories.


----------



## Lotias

Critz said:


> Looks like the "minimum requirement of manual keyswitches" will be respected as well!
> I hope steinberg will update the Expression Maps, otherwise it will be hard to handle this approach of different keyswitches categories.


I would note that some keyswitches probably aren't needed during the course of a usual performance - such as turning releases to ringing or damped. What I'm curious about is that the legato, short, etc. articulations are listed separately, and how they intend on following the promise of combining (or allowing you to combine) legato, shorts, vibrato intensities, etcetera. At least the microphone workflow will be a lot better than what I've seen in Vienna Instruments.

Also noticed that the legato keyswitch was set to "auto speed." I wonder what that does exactly. Obviously it picks the legato type for you, but I wonder which speeds correspond to which legatos... they did claim that the slur legato was good for fast passages, but there is also the fast legato itself.


----------



## Critz

Lotias said:


> I would note that some keyswitches probably aren't needed during the course of a usual performance - such as turning releases to ringing or damped. What I'm curious about is that the legato, short, etc. articulations are listed separately, and how they intend on following the promise of combining (or allowing you to combine) legato, shorts, vibrato intensities, etcetera. At least the microphone workflow will be a lot better than what I've seen in Vienna Instruments.
> 
> Also noticed that the legato keyswitch was set to "auto speed." I wonder what that does exactly. Obviously it picks the legato type for you, but I wonder which speeds correspond to which legatos... they did claim that the slur legato was good for fast passages, but there is also the fast legato itself.


it will probably depends on the velocity. Like for those libraries where a very low velocity value trigger the portamento.
Btw I also hope and think that picture was an "early development" screen of the GUI. Looks like a bit too spartan to be VSL.


----------



## Sovereign

Critz said:


> Btw I also hope and think that picture was an "early development" screen of the GUI. Looks like a bit too spartan to be VSL.


It looks like a souped-up version of the current player. Isn't the new player supposed to minimise keyswitching?


----------



## romantic

Great, one screenshot so we can continue blaming them?


----------



## Tfis

Guy Bacos said:


> 2 more demos:
> 
> Unchained
> 
> Melody in F min



I was overwhelmed how three-dimensional "Unchained" sounds (listened on neumann kh120/kh805 in a treated room).

Two questions please:

Which mic positions did you use?
Could you do a 2nd version with the std. lib?
How large ist the full lib.? (ok that was the 3rd question  )

You definitely should do some walkthroughs or tutorials for VSL.


----------



## Ashermusic

Sovereign said:


> It looks like a souped-up version of the current player./QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Of course it is. Each time any of the engines come out, Kontakt, Play, etc. they are based on the previous ones.


----------



## FabioA

Actually they said that it is a brand new engine builded from ground up.
Of course the GUI could have similarities with VI Pro 2; that would help the "migration" to the new sampler.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Simon Ravn said:


> The clarity in the samples is very evident in "Unchained" (especially in the latter part, after the sul tastos which are good but easily rivaled by other libraries). The cellos+basses staccatos also seem pretty good, but the violins made me chuckle. Unfortunately the lack of life/vibrato in the sustains (and staccatos actually) is still very evident. And some of the x-fades between dynamics and releases sound very unnatural and abrupt, but that could be up to programming of course.
> 
> The clarity and definition is definitely amazing but still feels like a wasted opportunity.



Simon, would you mind pointing out a few places? One mistake I might of done in these 2 demos is way overused the Slot X for vibrato control, and should of alternated with the natural legato patch. I'm only talking about the sustained notes sections.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Simon Ravn said:


> You can certainly have much more vibrato sound with 14 violins, just listen to a ton of film scores, or Hollywood Strings which I believe use even bigger sections. The custom library we did a while back also had tons more, which we explicitely asked the musicians for. I believe it was 12 violins. Those last two won't make the world of difference. I didn't hear "molto espressivo" in any of the sections, nor the cellos, in the pieces you did so I assume it isn't there.
> 
> Chamber size sections could definitely have more vibrato, but unfortunately this won't really help when you don't need those smaller sizes, and I still fear the same approach to recording samples will apply. Apassionata did have much more vibrato though, if I recall, so maybe there is still hope.



I agree that a strong vibrato here and there can be effective, but I've so far only heard this with real orchestras, when I hear these libraries with molto vibratos, and sounds great for a few notes but after that all the vibratos are so predictable to become annoying that I find this to be a bigger problem in my opinion since expressive vibratos are different and have their own character on every single note. I think in virtual music it's very difficult to solve one problem without creating another, so the best thing is to look at the qualities of a library and adapt, if you are looking to have it all, hire a real orchestra.

And although I'm still learning to get the best from synchron strings, and making mistakes, I'm convinced that it won't stop me from creating some pretty amazing sounding works in 2018, and of course combined with WW and brass and synchron percussion, will sound pretty damn full!

Just in general:

If this thread is so popular, it's probably because people want more and better from what they are currently using and expect synchron to solve all their problems and some expected to make mockups of JW on a 1st try. No virtual library will do that. Sorry. If you're dwelling so much on the imperfections you lose focus on the positive and there is a lot here. Some people on this thread have said about 50 times the same comment like a broken record while only 3 times about the positive.


----------



## novaburst

Guy Bacos said:


> 2 more demos:
> 
> Unchained
> 
> Melody in F min



@Guy Bacos Great demos very atmospheric and dark mood on your Unchained I did feel the intense mood that radiated in this pieces. 

Melody in F min another wonder short I did wish it could go on for longer but still great work and thanks for posting.



with comments like these it is easy to tell the poster is trying very hard to take away the listeners attention from the beauty and creativity of these pieces, it is very clear the poster is on a never ending rampage of smear that clearly is not working, but now it is becoming quite sad to see. 



Critz said:


> Then from 1:32, here we have the usual weak legato.



I know @Guy Bacos you don't need encouraging but your work has made the library shine and shows your time and dedication you have for music and is very easy to see that...... cant wait for more musical post and advise from you.


----------



## doubleattack

Guy Bacos said:


> I agree that a strong vibrato here and there can be effective, but I've so far only heard this with real orchestras, when I hear these libraries with molto vibratos, and sounds great for a few notes but after that all the vibratos are so predictable to become annoying that I find this to be a bigger problem in my opinion since expressive vibratos are different and have their own character on every single note. I think in virtual music it's very difficult to solve one problem without creating another, so the best thing is to look at the qualities of a library and adapt, if you are looking to have it all, hire a real orchestra. ...



+1


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Hi Casiquire,
> 
> Are you saying you would like to hear more of the room, or ambient-tail of the notes when a note ends ? Just wanted to double check if I understood your statement above.
> 
> Isn't this what the various mic options should offer ? more ambiance, which will be audible between the notes ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp



Just the tails, I love the room sound, and someone before me said it best, it sounds very three dimensional.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> I agree that a strong vibrato here and there can be effective, but I've so far only heard this with real orchestras, when I hear these libraries with molto vibratos, and sounds great for a few notes but after that all the vibratos are so predictable to become annoying that I find this to be a bigger problem in my opinion since expressive vibratos are different and have their own character on every single note. I think in virtual music it's very difficult to solve one problem without creating another, so the best thing is to look at the qualities of a library and adapt, if you are looking to have it all, hire a real orchestra.
> 
> And although I'm still learning to get the best from synchron strings, and making mistakes, I'm convinced that it won't stop me from creating some pretty amazing sounding works in 2018, and of course combined with WW and brass and synchron percussion, will sound pretty damn full!
> 
> Just in general:
> 
> If this thread is so popular, it's probably because people want more and better from what they are currently using and expect synchron to solve all their problems and some expected to make mockups of JW on a 1st try. No virtual library will do that. Sorry. If you're dwelling so much on the imperfections you lose focus on the positive and there is a lot here. Some people on this thread have said about 50 times the same comment like a broken record while only 3 times about the positive.


I'm sorry if I insist on the huge size of Synchron Strings. But while I agree to make an orchestral library means to do compromises and choices, I really think that with that amount of data VSL could offer more!
Spitfire could achieve a huge vibrato but also a more gentle vibrato, with really nice results (it's a fact everybody likes Spitfire sound signature). And the library is 100 gbs. I'm sure they decided to stay around that size and they had to chose what to include and what to skip. I'm sure that with 400 gbs they would have offered even more solution for vibrato and legato.
VSL really didn't care about the size. So I can't justify the lackness of a strong vibrato, that probably works better than what we have now most of the time. It's absolutely a must, both for film scoring that for "classical".


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I don't really need even more vibrato than the strong one in SyS. The CSS one for example can sound comical at times.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> Spitfire could achieve a huge vibrato but also a more gentle vibrato, with really nice results (it's a fact everybody likes Spitfire sound signature).



Then keep using it since it fills all your needs.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Then use that if it fills your need.


For sure that's most likely the last VSL library I buy.
I would probably invest in them instead of VSL.
You are right, I was hoping for something better from VSL because I prefer the workflow. But at the end of the day, the sound and realism is the main thing. And clearly at the moment we have to look elsewere.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> For sure that's most likely the last VSL library I buy.
> I would probably invest in them instead of VSL.
> You are right, I was hoping for something better from VSL because I prefer the workflow. But at the end of the day, the sound and realism is the main thing. And clearly at the moment we have to look elsewere.



So now that this is cleared up I imagine you'll move on.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> So now that this is cleared up I imagine you'll move on.


Sure, if it pleases you so much, I will move on with pleasure.
May I also suggest you that if you want to receive just compliments for your demos (and just to be clear I blamed VSL for the poor tool, not the composition or programming skills), there's the VSL forum that will be just perfect. I'm sure William will be excited!


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> Sure, if it pleases you so much, I will move on with pleasure.
> May I also suggest you that if you want to receive just compliments for your demos (and just to be clear I blamed VSL for the poor tool, not the composition or programming skills), there's the VSL forum that will be just perfect. I'm sure William will be excited!



And just be clear, my only complain has nothing to do with the comments made, but it would be nice to have some balance between what ones doesn't like and ones like. I'm sure that is understandable.

But anyway, this is going in circles.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> May I also suggest you that if you want to receive just compliments for your demos (and just to be clear I blamed VSL for the poor tool, not the composition or programming skills), there's the VSL forum that will be just perfect. I'm sure William will be excited!



Pretty cheap shot there.


----------



## prodigalson

And so goes the 2018 method of communicating online: cheap shots and sarcastic quips designed solely to make ones self feel superior and "one up" the other with little to nothing to back it up.

Kudos to Guy for subjecting himself to this by continued submission of well written and well programmed demos. He's the only one doing so. 

I'm personally on the fence still about whether to get a refund for synchron strings but these latest demoes are pushing me to stick it out until the new player and everything else is released.


----------



## SGordB

This is interesting (news to me, at least): . It's Herb Tucmandl on the motivation for the Synchron library, i.e., 1st tier Hollywood composers like Desplat and Elfman told VSL they were routinely using VSL libs to spice up their final orchestral recordings, fill in holes at the last minute and the like, so Tucmandl (himself a film composer and former orchestral cellist) thought, why not create a new lib that will already sound like a scoring stage when composers mix it with live recordings. He seems to be implying future scores may be recorded at Synchron, allowing composers' live/sampled hybrids to be a perfect Synchron/Synchron match.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Guy Bacos said:


> Simon, would you mind pointing out a few places? One mistake I might of done in these 2 demos is way overused the Slot X for vibrato control, and should of alternated with the natural legato patch. I'm only talking about the sustained notes sections.




Unchained:
0:17-0:19 something funny going on in the violins x-fade, they suddenly drop to another dynamic abruptly after going down a whole tone.
0:51/0:52, the release is rather abrupt.
01:01-01:11 same thing with the release.
02:46 is a bit weird, because you go in playing a rather hard hitting f in the violins, then it sort of fades into mp over the next 2-3 notes, but this is more a phrasing "issue"/feeling. I would think it would have been much more sensible and musical to fade in the first note from mp at least to create a more dynamic phrasing. Also considering the rest of the orchestra is playing p.
02:57 cellos/violas abruptly come to a stop.
03:17 violins legato, not sure what's going on there, maybe you're not using a legato patch and have a lot of overlap on the two notes.
03:28 cellos/violas/basses come to an abrupt stop and you fade out the violins 1-2 seconds later. Doesn't sound like this was intentional.
04:22 onwards, here the problem with the violins staccatos being "too perfect" really shows, and it gets very unnatural and machine-gun-y, metallic/sharp sounding.

Otherwise a nicely written piece that shows off many articulations.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Simon Ravn said:


> Unchained:
> 0:17-0:19 something funny going on in the violins x-fade, they suddenly drop to another dynamic abruptly after going down a whole tone.
> 0:51/0:52, the release is rather abrupt.
> 01:01-01:11 same thing with the release.
> 02:46 is a bit weird, because you go in playing a rather hard hitting f in the violins, then it sort of fades into mp over the next 2-3 notes, but this is more a phrasing "issue"/feeling. I would think it would have been much more sensible and musical to fade in the first note from mp at least to create a more dynamic phrasing. Also considering the rest of the orchestra is playing p.
> 02:57 cellos/violas abruptly come to a stop.
> 03:17 violins legato, not sure what's going on there, maybe you're not using a legato patch and have a lot of overlap on the two notes.
> 03:28 cellos/violas/basses come to an abrupt stop and you fade out the violins 1-2 seconds later. Doesn't sound like this was intentional.
> 04:22 onwards, here the problem with the violins staccatos being "too perfect" really shows, and it gets very unnatural and machine-gun-y, metallic/sharp sounding.
> 
> Otherwise a nicely written piece that shows off many articulations.



Thanks a lot Simon, much appreciate that!

I've quickly looked at these, I must admit they were much smaller issues than I expected, I could of probably tweaked it a little more for sure, and will do what I can to fix these, however in general this looks more related to the programming than the library itself.


----------



## Eptesicus

Anyone seen this posted on the vsl forum?

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...ique-that-I-ve-come-up-with-so-far#post268916

Sounds quite good


----------



## Guy Bacos

I've updated the mix,(same link) some changes are pretty subtle: a few longer release, x-fade adjustments, others question of taste I think but did the change, and some was quite helpful. Thanks Simon!

Unchained


----------



## Casiquire

Eptesicus said:


> Anyone seen this posted on the vsl forum?
> 
> https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...ique-that-I-ve-come-up-with-so-far#post268916
> 
> Sounds quite good




This whole conversation has also made me more interested in playing around with the envelopes in Dimension Strings. It's much more powerful than I realized before. It gets me anywhere from a really aggressive and painful portamento to a fairly smooth glissando. I don't own Synchron so I can't speak to its use there, but I have high hopes.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Guy, your new demos have ALMOST convinced me to give Synchron a shot and see how it works in my own hands. But I'll hold out and see when the final player + final library is done. I really don't want to spend hours and hours setting up matrices, fiddling with attack/release/"blur" settings etc. I believe a library like this should work pretty good out of the box and THEN you can do your personal tweaks. It seems like it needs a lot of work right now to get started.

I know that nothing is gonna fix my feeling that it lacks vibrato and life, but still it might turn out to be a useful library in some cases. And if we could just convince the VSL team to go back and record a couple of extra layers with more vibrato/expression it might even become really useful.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Simon Ravn said:


> I know that nothing is gonna fix my feeling that it lacks vibrato and life, but still it might turn out to be a useful library in some cases. And if we could just convince the VSL team to go back and record a couple of extra layers with more vibrato/expression it might even become really useful.


+100500


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

And you need more Round Robin for all vibrato layers. It would be a fantastic library!


----------



## Tfis

Guy Bacos said:


> I've updated the mix,(same link) some changes are pretty subtle: a few longer release, x-fade adjustments, others question of taste I think but did the change, and some was quite helpful. Thanks Simon!
> 
> Unchained



Could you tell me which mic positions you uses?
Thanks


----------



## holywilly

Did a 1min test on Synchron Strings I:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6bd7tq911laxiq/Synchron Strings Mockup.wav?dl=0

Using the the combination of MAIN & MID L-R mics and VSS3 reverb on each string section. 

All legato and longs are lyrical vibrato.


----------



## novaburst

Simon Ravn said:


> I know that nothing is gonna fix my feeling that it lacks vibrato and life, but still it might turn out to be a useful library in some cases. And if we could just convince the VSL team to go back and record a couple of extra layers with more vibrato/expression it might even become really



While i understand these types of sentiments and I really hope I am not miss read.

First and foremost any library purchase should be a personal choice, to rely on another users muck up is very unreliable as you really need to consider the advanced skill level of the one performing the muck up.

Second you should not cancel out other options when considering a new library what you can't find in one library you will find in another, I myself have found what I need in SyS but if I did not there would be nothing in the whole world that would stop me looking elsewhere.

I understand that at the moment this library is in a unique position in that it is incomplete and there are still one or two finishing touches to be made to the library but to plead to the Developer and say please do this or please add this for me and I will purchase your library when 1000s have already made up there minds.

There are just to many options out there to just try and force some ones hand for our own personal sake.

I have read many quotes and heard many demos on this thread demos of liberty's that are not SyS or not even VSL but these quotes and demos the impression is that users are over the moon with them so it reinforces the idea no one needs to be held to ransom by any one Developer or library there is just too many on offer to be hung up on just one library

Lastly I would say and remind people that purchasing a great library does not take away hard work especially to the trained ear,
It may be the library of your dreams but you should not be deluded into thinking its going to make your compersition sound great with out hard work and a certain skill level and living with the library for a while (getting to know it) 

Gold is buried deal with in the earth, 
You have a big part to play with your hard work and skill two bring the buetty out of a library.


----------



## wbacer

FYI in case you may be going to Winter NAMM

*VSL at NAMM and Westlake Pro*
Marketing Manager Martin Tichy, Product Manager Paul Kopf and Sales Manager Stefan Steinbauer will be delighted to meet you at the *Winter NAMM Show* in Anaheim, CA, from January 25 through January 28, 2018 at the ILIO booth #11602 in Hall A. You may check out our entire range of products and be among the first to see and hear _Synchron Strings I_ powered by our brand-new _Synchron Player_!

After NAMM, Paul will hold a clinic at *Westlake Pro* in North Hollywood on *Tuesday, January 30, at 7 pm*. Listen to _Synchron Strings_ and _Synchron Percussion_ in a Dolby Atmos environment and meet some special guests!

Please find out more details about both events https://www.vsl.co.at/en/News/Live_Presentations_NAMM_2018


----------



## Ashermusic

I will attend.


----------



## C-Wave

holywilly said:


> Did a 1min test on Synchron Strings I:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6bd7tq911laxiq/Synchron Strings Mockup.wav?dl=0
> 
> Using the the combination of MAIN & MID L-R mics and VSS3 reverb on each string section.
> 
> All legato and longs are lyrical vibrato.


Very good work.. I enjoyed it, thanks. What harp you used for this mockup?


----------



## EuropaWill

Casiquire said:


> This whole conversation has also made me more interested in playing around with the envelopes in Dimension Strings. It's much more powerful than I realized before. It gets me anywhere from a really aggressive and painful portamento to a fairly smooth glissando. I don't own Synchron so I can't speak to its use there, but I have high hopes.


Can you explain what you mean by envelopes in DS a bit more? I wish there was a true ADSR per element so I could shape layered samples and fade out the sustain portion of one sample while fading in the sustain portion of another sample. Please feel free to PM me on this.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Tfis said:


> Could you tell me which mic positions you uses?
> Thanks



Never!!!! 

I use the Full Version VE Pro Preset


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

@Guy
I already asked for it, but never received an answer. Since you have the full version could you post a brief comparison between standard and full library? That would be so nice.


----------



## C-Wave

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> @Guy
> I already asked for it, but never received an answer. Since you have the full version could you post a brief comparison between standard and full library? That would be so nice.


+1


----------



## Casiquire

EuropaWill said:


> Can you explain what you mean by envelopes in DS a bit more? I wish there was a true ADSR per element so I could shape layered samples and fade out the sustain portion of one sample while fading in the sustain portion of another sample. Please feel free to PM me on this.



I'm referring to the Attack, Release, and Legato Release sliders in particular, but there are a couple more than just those. I sort of forgot all about them and was messing with Dimension Strings, wishing the legato was a little less dramatic, when this thread reminded me those sliders are there! Made all the difference. The sound I was going for was more of a glissando which DS does not have, but wiggling those just a little bit gave me a beautiful smooth gliss and more connectivity overall.



Guy Bacos said:


> I've updated the mix,(same link) some changes are pretty subtle: a few longer release, x-fade adjustments, others question of taste I think but did the change, and some was quite helpful. Thanks Simon!
> 
> Unchained



This is better! Thanks for posting, I love the sound here so much. Synchron has a very tense and uneasy sound to me which is wonderful for these kinds of cues.


----------



## Casiquire

holywilly said:


> Did a 1min test on Synchron Strings I:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6bd7tq911laxiq/Synchron Strings Mockup.wav?dl=0
> 
> Using the the combination of MAIN & MID L-R mics and VSS3 reverb on each string section.
> 
> All legato and longs are lyrical vibrato.



Those swells sound fantastic! The line itself could be a bit more flowing I think, but that's to taste.


----------



## holywilly

C-Wave said:


> Very good work.. I enjoyed it, thanks. What harp you used for this mockup?


I use harp from EW symphonic orchestra, love that harp.


----------



## tmhuud

These strings sound so CLEAR. I like 'em.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> @Guy
> I already asked for it, but never received an answer. Since you have the full version could you post a brief comparison between standard and full library? That would be so nice.



I've only used the Full version so far, what this screenshot shows is about as much as I know regarding the difference.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Guy Bacos said:


> I've only used the Full version so far, what this screenshot shows is about as much as I know regarding the difference.


Thanks. I know it's only the microphones which differ, and that's the interesting part for me. How do these additional mike positions improve the sound? Couldn't you just simply turn the additional ones off for a comparison?


----------



## kimarnesen

I apologize if this is against the rules but to anyone who might be interested I'm selling my Synchron Strings I here for 300 Euros. https://vi-control.net/community/threads/fs-synchron-strings-i-standard.67980

It's not that I don't like it, I just took a different direction.


----------



## muziksculp

kimarnesen said:


> I apologize if this is against the rules but to anyone who might be interested I'm selling my Synchron Strings I here for 300 Euros. https://vi-control.net/community/threads/fs-synchron-strings-i-standard.67980
> 
> It's not that I don't like it, I just took a different direction.



Good luck with your different direction. (Hmmm.. I wonder what it is ?)


----------



## kimarnesen

muziksculp said:


> Good luck with your different direction. (Hmmm.. I wonder what it is ?)



Well, my orchestra is based on Spitfire, and I realized I want to focus on that to get an effective and easy setup workflow. And I don't even have time to learn Vienna Ensemble or the new player. So a bit quick on the "buy button" I guess.


----------



## muziksculp

kimarnesen said:


> Well, my orchestra is based on Spitfire, and I realized I want to focus on that to get an effective and easy setup workflow. And I don't even have time to learn Vienna Ensemble or the new player. So a bit quick on the "buy button" I guess.



Spitfire Libraries are wonderful. 

You can always re-purchase _Synchron Strings I_ in the future, especially after they have the new Synchron Player, and the library is completed.


----------



## C-Wave

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Thanks. I know it's only the microphones which differ, and that's the interesting part for me. How do these additional mike positions improve the sound? Couldn't you just simply turn the additional ones off for a comparison?


+1.. exactly, I am also interested in the sonic advantages of buying the full version vs. standard if 3D audio is not on the table. Thanks Guy all the same.


----------



## Guy Bacos

C-Wave said:


> +1.. exactly, I am also interested in the sonic advantages of buying the full version vs. standard if 3D audio is not on the table. Thanks Guy all the same.




In general, the additional mics contained in the Extended Library add more depth in the mix - surrounds and high surround mics are capturing more detail of the room. 

STANDARD LIBRARY: The Decca Tree can be seen as a mixture between the direct signal and the room response, and you can influence how close you want to get to the ensemble by adjusting the volume of the Close mic (the ensemble leader) and the Mid mic (in front of the ensemble). 

EXTENDED LIBRARY: The surround and high surround mics are designed to capture the more defused sound of the room, adding a great sense of space. 

You should use these microphones in all surround formats. 

The more room microphones are added to a stereo mix, the more compact the room ambience appears. 

So the different room microphones change the overall character of the room amount in your mix.


----------



## FabioA

Guy Bacos said:


> In general, the additional mics contained in the Extended Library add more depth in the mix - surrounds and high surround mics are capturing more detail of the room.
> 
> STANDARD LIBRARY: The Decca Tree can be seen as a mixture between the direct signal and the room response, and you can influence how close you want to get to the ensemble by adjusting the volume of the Close mic (the ensemble leader) and the Mid mic (in front of the ensemble).
> 
> EXTENDED LIBRARY: The surround and high surround mics are designed to capture the more defused sound of the room, adding a great sense of space.
> 
> You should use these microphones in all surround formats.
> 
> The more room microphones are added to a stereo mix, the more compact the room ambience appears.
> 
> So the different room microphones change the overall character of the room amount in your mix.


Actually I'm very curious about the rear mic - back of ensemble :D


----------



## C-Wave

Guy Bacos said:


> In general, the additional mics contained in the Extended Library add more depth in the mix - surrounds and high surround mics are capturing more detail of the room.
> 
> STANDARD LIBRARY: The Decca Tree can be seen as a mixture between the direct signal and the room response, and you can influence how close you want to get to the ensemble by adjusting the volume of the Close mic (the ensemble leader) and the Mid mic (in front of the ensemble).
> 
> EXTENDED LIBRARY: The surround and high surround mics are designed to capture the more defused sound of the room, adding a great sense of space.
> 
> You should use these microphones in all surround formats.
> 
> The more room microphones are added to a stereo mix, the more compact the room ambience appears.
> 
> So the different room microphones change the overall character of the room amount in your mix.


Thanks Guy.. just what the doctor ordered  so far I am using the room-mix and mid (L/R) mics together.. I think I will give a try for a mix between the close and mid mics and see how close that gets me to the ensemble.
Would you please publish “unchained”* with just a room mix and probably a mid mic? Would be really great if you can.
Thanks again.
* i’m thinking there is lots of room (sorry for the pun ) for ambience in this composition.


----------



## Mousavi

kimarnesen said:


> Well, my orchestra is based on Spitfire, and I realized I want to focus on that to get an effective and easy setup workflow. And I don't even have time to learn Vienna Ensemble or the new player. So a bit quick on the "buy button" I guess.



Spitfire Audio Libraries are wonderful


----------



## C-Wave

Mousavi said:


> Spitfire Audio Libraries are wonderful


Spitfire audio are marketing geniuses.. and they have a couple of good string libraries.
And this is a thread on VSL.. OK HERE WE GO AGAIN.... CRITZ?!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Maybe he's off the payroll now.


----------



## romantic

Mousavi said:


> Spitfire Audio Libraries are wonderful


So are VSL Libraries


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Maybe he's off the payroll now.


I wonder if there's more than someone off the payroll in VSL, considering they are missing all the deadlines.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Here is an interesting video I found while browsing Youtube today, showing VSL *Synchron Strings I* demos, and some live playing examples of various patches, and the various mics options.



Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is an interesting video I found while browsing Youtube today, showing VSL *Synchron Strings I* demos, and some live playing examples of various patches, and the various mics options.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp




Yeah I posted it a couple weeks ago because I thought it sounded wonderful but good demos don't seem to be popular in this thread lol! The good ones get ignored and bad ones get talked about forever.


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Yeah I posted it a couple weeks ago because I thought it sounded wonderful but good demos don't seem to be popular in this thread lol! The good ones get ignored and bad ones get talked about forever.



Hi @Casiquire ,

Thanks for taking the time to make this video. It sounds very good, and it is very helpful.

Oh.. on a side note, I noticed you are using _Sonar_, So...have you decided which DAW you will be switching to in the future ? 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Casiquire ,
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to make this video. It sounds very good, and it is very helpful.
> 
> Oh.. on a side note, I noticed you are using _Sonar_, So...have you decided which DAW you will be switching to in the future ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Apologies for being unclear, I did not make the video, I found it on YouTube and posted it on this thread as an example of how nice the library sounds. It was largely ignored. Might have had more hits if I wrote "Wow listen to how bad this library is!"


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Apologies for being unclear, I did not make the video, I found it on YouTube and posted it on this thread as an example of how nice the library sounds. It was largely ignored. Might have had more hits if I wrote "Wow listen to how bad this library is!"



Oh.. I see, I thought you meant you made the video.

Anyways.. Thanks for clarifying, and ignore the Sonar comment 

I wonder if the maker of the video is a member of this forum ?


----------



## Casiquire

Sure I remember that, I was one of those voices lol.


----------



## Casiquire

Agreed. However good demos do still get ignored, despite an example to the contrary.


----------



## C-Wave

Casiquire said:


> Agreed. However good demos do still get ignored, despite an example to the contrary.


+1. A good shill is a subtle shill. But the overall result of all shills on one thread usually betrays them. Your good description of how they kept ignoring the better demos is one good example. It was clear from the very begining. This is unfortunate as their are many who trust this forum.
Edit: mike verta has a brilliant idea where he made a forum where people are forced to register with their real names.


----------



## Casiquire

I'm not sure I'd go quite that far, but it is frustrating that negative is viewed as honest. Honest truth is some demos don't sound great, but some truly do, just like anything else.


----------



## C-Wave

Casiquire said:


> I'm not sure I'd go quite that far, but it is frustrating that negative is viewed as honest. Honest truth is some demos don't sound great, but some truly do, just like anything else.


Nice way of putting it, and could’t Agree more, but the way I see it is if someone sees this library with a grain of salt I have ***the right*** to treat them likewise; So,
1. To be fair when this library is not showing up ALL what VSL portrayed it initially, this is absolutely true, but some of what was delivered came out true. In that respect VSL delivered.
2. And what seems to be “conveniently” forgotten is that we are judging an incomplete product on 2 levels (a) Quality of sound (legati, etc..) and (b) the playing engine. It’s not a secret that these are actually intertwined but I won’t go there, but what I must say is that here hard criticism should be directed to the company not the product... in other words this is a marketing fluke not a technical fluke. But anybody on the negative side doing that? Not really.. because ?

This library will take some time to mature, but we can only wait till the rabbit is completely out of the hat until we have the right to judge as to what it is.
My 2 cents.


----------



## novaburst

C-Wave said:


> And what seems to be “conveniently” forgotten is that we are judging an incomplete product



This can be looked at from a differently,

It could be that there is so much respect for VSL, that the incomplete library, should be world class or even better than the rest.



C-Wave said:


> This library will take some time to mature,



The library is growing more and more on me the mic position on the standard are quite nice and gives some very nice tones loading all four mic positions and playing all together in Veinna ensemble can give off an enormous string sound, and even on standard edition can really make these strings very personal and intimate. It is definitely a gold nugget in my arsenal.


----------



## C-Wave

novaburst said:


> ..and playing all together in Veinna ensemble can give off an enormous string sound, and even on standard edition can really make these strings very personal and intimate. It is definitely a gold nugget in my arsenal.


This! Each time I hear those Cellos resonate, I say to myself VSL should demonstrate this aspect.


----------



## C-Wave

ka00 said:


> @C-Wave
> 1. Do you make it a habit of questioning the integrity of everyone who even remotely disagrees with you about anything?
> 
> 2. Do you generate conspiracy theories to explain away aspects of reality that you find uncomfortable because they don’t fit your fixed understanding of things?
> 
> 3. Do you know how hard it is to feed a family of twelve with freelance shilling when there are people like you exposing even the subtlest of subtle shilling campaigns? So subtle in fact as to appear indistinguishable from real people with real opinions that simply don’t match your own?


Beautiful reply, so nicely done.. but who are you? Poster # 1910. So your point is i’m imagining things? Ok no worries


----------



## C-Wave

omiroad said:


> You're imagining that people who don't agree with you are "shills", yes.


@omiroad, people who don’t agree with me on what? go back to the start and start reading.. Anyways, this thread stopped being about anything for some time.


----------



## Casiquire

We're veering away from substantive discussion again haha. 

Weren't we supposed to see demos of the new player any day now?


----------



## C-Wave

Casiquire said:


> We're veering away from substantive discussion again haha.
> 
> Weren't we supposed to see demos of the new player any day now?


Thanks Casiquire. And you don’t have to agree with me on anything to say I have come to repspect your posts. Very moderate and balanced.. 
I have made my lifestyle to appreciate beauty.. in the same spirit this library has lots of this despite its shortcomings.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I would appreciate it if we can focus on the topic, rather than commenting/criticizing on each others posts.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Casiquire said:


> We're veering away from substantive discussion again haha.
> 
> Weren't we supposed to see demos of the new player any day now?


I was hoping, too.

Paul wrote in the VSL forum:
"I'm afraid I won't get to the videos before NAMM, but I will show the player at NAMM for sure. Still no release date there, I'm afraid. We want this player to be stable like a rock, even in v 1.0."

A bit disappointing... a bit.


----------



## novaburst

I was wondering how people use SyS or have you discoverd this as yet,

I am using Synchron strings by loading all mic positions, inside ensemble or ensemble pro, and linking the instrument to the same channel then adjusting the mic volume and or mic pan also can adjust the fader in ensemble.

I could end up playing two or all the mics position with the Instrument depending on feel or project, at the moment that of course is 1st violins and cellos and basses.

You can get such a sweet tone and sound from using the library like this also it prompts many other possibilities.


----------



## C-Wave

novaburst said:


> I was wondering how people use SyS or have you discoverd this as yet,
> 
> I am using Synchron strings by loading all mic positions, inside ensemble or ensemble pro, and linking the instrument to the same channel then adjusting the mic volume and or mic pan also can adjust the fader in ensemble.
> 
> I could end up playing two or all the mics position with the Instrument depending on feel or project, at the moment that of course is 1st violins and cellos and basses.
> 
> You can get such a sweet tone and sound from using the library like this also it prompts many other possibilities.


Hey,
I am doing similar things with he mics; same midi channel on each group going from ensemble pro (VSL template) going to same midi track on Cubase 9.5, but even using just the room-mix plus the mid mic are giving me a full sound while maintaining good amount of detail from the mid mic.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I am still waiting for the new player, but I am quite content with the room mix preset in VI Pro. For me, it sounds good with some additional reverb.

I am only a bit confused... in the setup video Paul says that the room mix is a combination of the mid and all others mixed down from the full library (!!!) even if you have the standard library. On the other hand, in the manual the room mix is described as a mix of only the standard ones if you have the standard library.

What do you think?


----------



## novaburst

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I am only a bit confused... in the setup video Paul says that the room mix is a combination of the mid and all others mixed down from the full library (!!!) even if you have the standard library. On the other hand, in the manual the room mix is described as a mix of only the standard ones if you have the standard library.
> 
> What do you think?



I think it may well be, but the problem if you can call it a problem is it's only one take it may or may not be to your liking,

Being able to tweak the mics to your liking is a big advantage even if its on standard, but I can only imagine the sound you can get from the full version.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I'm not sure, but to me, the room mix samples have something in them I can't reproduce with the standard library mics on their own. I do believe that what Paul said in the video is correct.


----------



## Cartoon

Hej,

I am new in this forum, as a member, but I am following this thread since 3 month...

Now I just want to share a sneak peak video from Lorne Balfe in Synchron Stage Vienna...

I think this room sounds reaally special and different. But different in a good way! I think it is one of the best recording studios in the world! Isn't it?

What do you guys think about it?


----------



## synergy543

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I'm not sure, but to me, the room mix samples have something in them I can't reproduce with the standard library mics on their own. I do believe that what Paul said in the video is correct.


I believe Paul said the Room-Mix also contains a mix of the surround mics folded-down-to stereo. It sounds virtually identical to the default Full Version VE-Pro Preset Mix. If this is how it was created, it likely also contains the Matrix delays as well which will further spread the sound. So you likely couldn't create the Room-Mix with just the standard library. However, I believe its included with the Standard Library and it really has a superbly mixed sound. With the Full Version, I have a hard time improving upon the Room-Mix using individual mics, the Room-Mix is just a very good mix! Maybe someone from VSL can then explain to us what are the advantages then of the Full Version?


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

synergy543 said:


> Maybe someone from VSL can then explain to us what are the advantages then of the Full Version?


 The advantage is that you can create your own mix. But why then buy the full library when you have such a gorgeous mix?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

synergy543 said:


> Maybe someone from VSL can then explain to us what are the advantages then of the Full Version?



I would think: for actual Surround and 3D Audio tasks first and foremost. It's really nice of them to include the stereo mixdown. People have been a bit apprehensive about the ressource requirements, but with the room mix samples, it's actually easy to get a great balanced sound without having to engage all mics. I like a mix between the room mix and the mid mics. That's not particularly heavy on the RAM at all.

Once the Synchron Player is out, I'll try adding in the close mic as well (too tedious to screw around with the mics in VI Pro) and see if that adds some additional interest, but I could imagine just going with room mix + mid + a touch of external algo most of the time. It sounds great.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Cartoon said:


> What do you guys think about it?


Thanks for posting. For me, the sound is very identical to the samples and it is indeed a special sound, but a gorgeous one. But the players in the video ... oh, my ... they look bored as hell.


----------



## Cartoon

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Thanks for posting. For me, the sound is very identical to the samples and it is indeed a special sound, but a gorgeous one. But the players in the video ... oh, my ... they look bored as hell.



I guess they are focused and a little bit tired :D
I mean the have to wait in a recording session most of the time... :O


----------



## novaburst

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> The advantage is that you can create your own mix. But why then buy the full library when you have such a gorgeous mix?



Totally agree the mix is sweet, but may not be suited for every situation, so can imagine users wanting to fit a certain sound in a mix needing to undo or redo, or just change on the full version.

After all it is about making the library personal


----------



## muziksculp

The full library should offer the most flexibility in customizing the sound/character of the strings that one would like to hear, more than the Standard version. That's why I decided to pre-ordered the full version, I can't wait for the full-completed library, with the Synchron Player to be officially released, so I can finally install it, and begin discovering this new gem from VSL.


----------



## Critz

OMG.. and now who's talking about nothing?
The Stereo Mix is just a preset that can be loaded into a single instance of Vienna Ensemble, and it's the Mid-Distance mic plus a Mix (Main Decca + Main Center mono).

That's it.


----------



## muziksculp

Critz said:


> Good! Looks like VSL did the right move not releasing other info about the player before the introductory offer end.



I'm sure they will release more info. regarding the new Synchron Player in the very near future. We will get to see, and hear some demos of the Synchron Player in action at the Winter NAMM 2018 in Anaheim, California. They also will be giving a demo at Westlake Pro Audio. in Studio City. Which I'm hoping to attend.

They will not end the Introductory Offer before releasing more info, demos, and videos of the new player, that would make a lot of sense.


----------



## eli0s

Cartoon said:


> Hej,
> 
> I am new in this forum, as a member, but I am following this thread since 3 month...
> 
> Now I just want to share a sneak peak video from Lorne Balfe in Synchron Stage Vienna...
> 
> I think this room sounds reaally special and different. But different in a good way! I think it is one of the best recording studios in the world! Isn't it?
> 
> What do you guys think about it?



Hmmm... Even the live recording sounds fake... I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing for the library. it does get pretty close (conveniently close) to the sound in this video.
I guess I don't enjoy this kind of sound timbre and performance from a string orchestra.
However, this is good news for anyone that does enjoy this particular sound and has the resourses to run this library.


----------



## muziksculp

eli0s said:


> Hmmm... Even the live recording sounds fake... I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing for the library. it does get pretty close (conveniently close) to the sound in this video.
> I guess I don't enjoy this kind of sound timbre and performance from a string orchestra.
> However, this is good news for anyone that does enjoy this particular sound and has the resourses to run this library.



The Live Strings Sound Wonderful to me ! 

What's the problem ?


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Critz said:


> The Stereo Mix is just a preset that can be loaded into a single instance of Vienna Ensemble, and it's the Mid-Distance mic plus a Mix (Main Decca + Main Center mono).


This is the information in the manual, but in the setup guide video Paul says it is a mix of ALL available room microphones, even those of the full library.


----------



## Critz

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> This is the information in the manual, but in the setup guide video Paul says it is a mix of ALL available room microphones, even those of the full library.


Available for the version you have, most likely.


----------



## eli0s

muziksculp said:


> The Live Strings Sound Wonderful to me !
> 
> What's the problem ?


Honestly, they lack volume (not gain, presence), and the performance is so clean and static, especially in the accompaniment shorts, they sound lifeless and boring. Also, the melody has some weird expression choices, It's a bad performance overall, however, don't let me bring up the negativity meter, It's probably me, I just don't like this sound. I don't mind if it works for others, it's a matter of taste, not function!


----------



## muziksculp

eli0s said:


> Honestly, they lack volume (not gain, presence), and the performance is so clean and static, especially in the accompaniment shorts, they sound lifeless and boring. Also, the melody has some weird expression choices, It's a bad performance overall, however, don't let me bring up the negativity meter, It's probably me, I just don't like this sound. I don't mind if it works for others, it's a matter of taste, not function!



If you notice the string players are not using a lot of vibrato, they were surely holding back on the vibrato, maybe that was part of the sound they were trying to achieve, if they were to play with molto-vibrato, very expressive / romantic style, the strings would have sounded more lush, and possibly had more volume, and less static sounding. Again, this is not the fault of the players, or Synchron Stage. It is most likely something that required this type of string character in the cue they are scoring for.


----------



## eli0s

@muziksculp , yes, you are probably right!


----------



## muziksculp

The Full version has 8 Mic options, the Standard has 4, so I would expect the Full version to be double or even more than double the size of the Standard version in size. which will lead me to guess that there will be a considerable difference between the two versions from a sonic perspective.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> I'm sure they will release more info. regarding the new Synchron Player



While its nice to have another player to hand, I do understand that it will have eq apart from that I am wondering what it is able to do that can not be done now working with ensemble pro.


----------



## muziksculp

novaburst said:


> While its nice to have another player to hand, I do understand that it will have eq apart from that I am wondering what it is able to do that can not be done now working with ensemble pro.



We shall know soon 

Also, having an EQ option in the Synchron Player, means we can tweak the EQ, to taste, and save it with the instrument, then load the instrument preset with the EQ setting again, in any other instance of VE-Pro.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> We shall know soon
> 
> Also, having an EQ option in the Synchron Player, means we can tweak the EQ, to taste, and save it with the instrument, then load the instrument preset with the EQ setting again, in any other instance of VE-Pro.



I guess if its going to be shown @ NAMM there must be something going on I just hope they don't change that beautiful blue and white colour, such a refreshing look


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

novaburst said:


> I guess if its going to be shown @ NAMM there must be something going on I just hope they don't change that beautiful blue and white colour, such a refreshing look


There was a screenshot of the new player posted a few days ago. You can find it in the current VSL catalogue. The GUI looks very colourful.


----------



## muziksculp

eli0s said:


> @muziksculp , yes, you are probably right!



How about this performance in Synchron Stage ?


----------



## Critz

Cartoon said:


> Hej,
> 
> I am new in this forum, as a member, but I am following this thread since 3 month...
> 
> Now I just want to share a sneak peak video from Lorne Balfe in Synchron Stage Vienna...
> 
> I think this room sounds reaally special and different. But different in a good way! I think it is one of the best recording studios in the world! Isn't it?
> 
> What do you guys think about it?



Also, let's be honest and say that that piece of music is boring and useless itself. Does someone really need to go on a stage like that to record that stuff?


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> Also, let's be honest and say that that piece of music is boring and useless itself. Does someone really need to go on a stage like that to record that stuff?



lol I would probably just use spitfire chamber for that.


----------



## novaburst

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> You can find it in the current VSL catalogue. The GUI looks very colourful.



Any chance of a link, can't find.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> OMG.. and now who's talking about nothing?
> The Stereo Mix is just a preset that can be loaded into a single instance of Vienna Ensemble, and it's the Mid-Distance mic plus a Mix (Main Decca + Main Center mono).
> 
> That's it.



Your trolling attempts are becoming noticeably weaker.


----------



## holywilly

novaburst said:


> Any chance of a link, can't find.


here: https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Press_Area/Brochures


----------



## Cartoon

ctsai89 said:


> lol I would probably just use spitfire chamber for that.




Yes, yes, yes... Danny Elfman, Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, the Gregson-Williams brothers and so on just made the wrong decision and chose a real orchestra instead of spitfire samples ☝️
Maybe apply as an adviser for them :D
You have really useful tips!


----------



## novaburst

holywilly said:


> here: https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Press_Area/Brochures



Ok I take that back they can change the colour they can do what they want, that new player is looking very dangerous Indeed.

That's the first time I have seen it and by just looking it looks like it has a mission.

Well it got my mouth watering, I think it's something to look forward for.

Thanks for the link


----------



## Critz

Cartoon said:


> Yes, yes, yes... Danny Elfman, Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, the Gregson-Williams brothers and so on just made the wrong decision and chose a real orchestra instead of spitfire samples ☝️
> Maybe apply as an adviser for them :D
> You have really useful tips!


It was specific to this track you shared. That is basically staccato accompaniment plus a questionable melody. It's something you can easily achieve with a sample library. Not Synchron Strings actually, because the melody would probably sound bad. But whatever serius library can do that easily and 99% realistic.


----------



## ctsai89

Lol

Funny thread again hehe


----------



## ctsai89

staccatos could easily sound good from just the siblius 6 playback.

Jokes not really

Oh but honestly staccatos are sorta night mare in SSS


----------



## Cartoon

Critz said:


> It was specific to this track you shared. That is basically staccato accompaniment plus a questionable melody. It's something you can easily achieve with a sample library. Not Synchron Strings actually, because the melody would probably sound bad. But whatever serius library can do that easily and 99% realistic.



You have to think this way... Do you really think they just came to Vienna for this track?
I don't think so? And why shouldn't they take the possibility to record more with a real orchestra?So I wouldn't blame them that they should us samples for that


----------



## ctsai89

Cartoon said:


> Yes, yes, yes... Danny Elfman, Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, the Gregson-Williams brothers and so on just made the wrong decision and chose a real orchestra instead of spitfire samples ☝️
> Maybe apply as an adviser for them :D
> You have really useful tips!



Eh I didn't imply any of the things you just said it's only what I would do personally since I'm low budgeted


----------



## Critz

Cartoon said:


> You have to think this way... Do you really think they just came to Vienna for this track?
> I don't think so? And why shouldn't they take the possibility to record more with a real orchestra?So I wouldn't blame them that they should us samples for that


Of course not. But the fact someone choose it a teaser, let me think it is supposed to be good stuff, somehow in their minds.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would appreciate it if we can focus on the topic, rather than commenting/criticizing on each others posts.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp



This please, guy's there is nothing wrong with stating your disappointment with SyS what ever it is. 

We already know the posters who are dissatisfied with the library, we do read the long discussions about your disappointment please understand that some are just not dissapointet some really love the library.

There is no point in slamming at the first opportunity you get to post.

So can we be constructive if that's ok with out the bitterness and the attitude as it gives off a bad vibe then people start attacking one another. 

There is still more to come on this library and I for one am looking forward to the new player and how it can contribute to the Synchron series, it is looking pretty good so I guess it's all eyes and ears at NAMM.

I think there is going to be a demonstration with it too so can't wait to see what this thing can do.

I really think VSL are carving there own path this is what I love about them.


----------



## Casiquire

Critz said:


> It was specific to this track you shared. That is basically staccato accompaniment plus a questionable melody. It's something you can easily achieve with a sample library. Not Synchron Strings actually, because the melody would probably sound bad. But whatever serius library can do that easily and 99% realistic.



Actually Synchron would sound nearly identical.


----------



## Critz

Yes? Then please just play the melody with Synchron Strings and let's see what happen!


Casiquire said:


> Actually Synchron would sound nearly identical.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Don't feed the trolls, gents. They're on their last legs.


----------



## romantic

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Don't feed the trolls, gents. They're on their last legs.


It is not about feeding trolls, it is about reaching page 100 in time for NAMM opening


----------



## Cartoon

romantic said:


> It is not about feeding trolls, it is about reaching page 100 in time for NAMM opening



Challenge accepted!


----------



## ctsai89

10 more posts before page 100!. am i right? is it 15 posts per page? lol


----------



## FriFlo

ctsai89 said:


> 10 more posts before page 100!. am i right? is it 15 posts per page? lol


You just need to leave huge spaces between sentences ...








... or ...




... words ...





... or write a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ... a lot of text ...
... and we will reach page 100 even quicker!


----------



## Critz

So, Paul said the player will be presented at Namm but is far from being ready. It will take some time more. And he's not talking about days, probably not even weeks.

The situation sounds worst than my thoughts!


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> So, Paul said the player will be presented at Namm but is far from being ready. It will take some time more. And he's not talking about days, probably not even weeks.
> 
> The situation sounds worst than my thoughts!



You'll just appreciated more when it's ready , and until then, better make music rather than counting days or weeks.


----------



## Critz

I reported what it has been said in VSL forum. Plus a simple consideration of mine.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Does anyone know if there will be some NAMM videos? Some experience from past events? I am so desperately looking forward to this new player. For me this library is quite useless until now. Still in regard to the legatos.


----------



## muziksculp

Paul of VSL posted on the VSL forum that more information about the Synchron Player will be released within the next weeks.

He did not specify how many weeks, so again, we need to be patient, and optimistic.

The Synchron Player he will be showing at NAMM is not the final version. So let's not rush to judging it.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz for most critical player of the month!

Hey @Critz i was wondering what your taste in music was like? Who are your favorite composers or what kind of music do you listen to?

I'm guessing we have similar taste after you made the comment about that staccato piece. Not that I look down on it but I wouldn't spend money and time going to a stage for it either nor would I ever try to compose like that unless I need to for films...


----------



## muziksculp

Hi, @ctsai89 and @Critz,

I recommend you open a new topic to discuss your personal tastes, this is totally off topic, and I would appreciate it if you stick to the topic which is *Synchron Strings*, and not your personal tastes in music.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

muziksculp said:


> Paul of VSL posted on the VSL forum that the Synchron Player will be ready within the next weeks.


He says more information, not release ...


----------



## muziksculp

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> He says more information, not release ...



Oups.. Yes, you are right, I corrected my post above. 

Thanks for noticing.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muziksculp said:


> Hi, @ctsai89 and @Critz,
> 
> I recommend you open a new topic to discuss your personal tastes, this is totally off topic, and I would appreciate it if you stick to the topic which is *Synchron Strings*, and not your personal tastes in music.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp



Without this thread, there would be no "Critz" on this forum. Check his posting history and take it for what you will.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

muziksculp said:


> Oups.. Yes, you are right, I corrected my post above.


It was not my intention to correct, but you're welcome. 

It's a pity that Paul (and the VSL team) only post hints in the forum where noone can actually see them. I mean, the new player is teased in the catalogue (of course while it will be presented at NAMM), but they could make those "announcements" way more official. Maybe in another newsletter?


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Out of curiosity... Are you guys also are waiting for the legato "improvements" which will probably come with the new player or have you switched your minds in the meantime (a bit)? 

I am waiting, of course, but I like the sound more and more in the current state. It's not that bad. The attack is a bit strong. When I make a matrix with the different legato types switching by speed, I can get quite good results, because for the first attack the softer legato is triggered.


----------



## novaburst

This really looks good I was not thinking about this until I checked it out for the first time yesterday now its got me exited, I think if we observe it we can learn a little about it.

It looks like Sections will be available


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

novaburst said:


> I think if we observe it we can learn a little about it.


Indeed, for me, the legato speed sounds interesting. Because the legtos are switched by auto-speed. But what could this additional legato speed mean? That there will be different legato transitions? Maybe a kind of speed control as in Spitfire's strings. I'm only guessing...


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Out of curiosity... Are you guys also are waiting for the legato "improvements" which will probably come with the new player or have you switched your minds in the meantime (a bit)?
> 
> I am waiting, of course, but I like the sound more and more in the current state. It's not that bad. The attack is a bit strong. When I make a matrix with the different legato types switching by speed, I can get quite good results, because for the first attack the softer legato is triggered.



I don't expect the new player to have any effect on the legato patches. But indeed, since they introduced the legato blur slider and I spent more time experimenting with the library, the legatos have grown on me. It's not "legato reinvented". But it definitely also isn't the trainwreck some people make it out to be. Especially the soft legato patch. I'm also under the strong impression that some people have quite skewed expectations of how a legato patch should sound like.

But what I realized most lately is how good the library actually sounds sonically. I just recently came to fully appreciate it. It has qualities that no other string library has. These things sadly go totally unnoticed amidst all the superficial judgements and oafish nitpicking and badmouthing.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> But what I realized most lately is how good the library actually sounds sonically.


Thanks. +1


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> But what I realized most lately is how good the library actually sounds sonically. I just recently came to fully appreciate it.



Certainly this, I loved it before but I am also coming to appreciate the sound even more.


----------



## meradium

Was just listening to the demos again. Looks like since my last visit not much has changed. Not sure what is supposed to be so amazing about it. Synthy and lifeless. Or, well, you could also call this "clean"... Is that what you mean?


----------



## Critz

novaburst said:


> Certainly this, I loved it before but I am also coming to appreciate the sound even more.


You will call me Troll, but as it happens with songs, the more we listen to something, the most we start to like it; it works even with shitty songs. There's a big thing that works like that: it's called Music Industry.
You are talking about sound. First of all, Synchron Sounds is not the most pleasant, but beyond that, it's a matter of taste.
What is objective and not sybjective is the unrealistc and not musical results you can achieve with it. I don't give a damn of beautiful samples if I cannot connect them in a convincing and musical way.


----------



## ctsai89

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Without this thread, there would be no "Critz" on this forum. Check his posting history and take it for what you will.



There would be no criticism on this thread if there were no critz. Thus it wouldn't have reached 100th page.


----------



## Guy Bacos

The only reasonable explanation for Critz insistance, is that he secretly is in love with synchron, and is in denial. Just admit it, you'll feel better.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> But what I realized most lately is how good the library actually sounds sonically. I just recently came to fully appreciate it. It has qualities that no other string library has. These things sadly go totally unnoticed amidst all the superficial judgements and oafish nitpicking and badmouthing.



Absolutely!


----------



## Sovereign

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> some people have quite skewed expectations of how a legato patch should sound like.


This is tantamount to saying synchron does it right, every other library sounds wrong. Nope, that's not gonna fly.


----------



## Guy Bacos

I understand that this is the idea of a forum, to debate and give your comments, but it still baffles me why it bothers some people that others may love synchron. I said it before, hey, if you don't like it, think it sounds like shit, simply don'y buy it and go praise another string library thread.


----------



## maestro2be

The more I work with the library the more I love it. It reminds me of all VSL instruments. You must spend a lot of time and treat it like an instrument and master it. It's just not that overwhelming "instantaneous greatness out of the box" in terms of connecting lyrical legato performances. I will say though, the more I fine tune it to my liking the closer it gets. I have always been excited and amazed at it's sonic quality, but like most anyone else, was very disappointed with how it sounded in terms of performing a beautiful lush, emotional legato performance. Sometimes expectations can really let you down. Templates will be key on this library to me. In fact, like everything in life, things seem so hard and confusing until you master it. Then you look back and think, this isn't nearly as hard as I thought. This is how I always feel about VSL samples. In the end, they really return their investment for me. I almost have an out of the box feeling at this point. The same I felt about Spitfire and Symphobia who to me have a beautiful sound right out of the box.

At this point, the only real issue I am finding is that I really need those missing legato performances in the sections. The sudden dropout of audio due to switching between sustains on Violins 2 and Violas is really noticeable in exposed areas. In others I can almost mask it to where it's not noticeable, but it requires to much effort. So I look forward to them being released even more than the player.

I am going to try to put together a small demo of what the Legato's sound like when in a performance that I like, as I haven't really been impressed with what I have heard so far except for Guy's demo. I will only echo again that I do truly love the shorts, but would also love to see an expansion or hope that the new player will enhance it and introduce many more lengths and personalities of performance samples. Let me see if I can get this done in the next few days and post something as at least to my ears on my system, these do not disappoint as much as they did when I had no idea what I was doing.


----------



## Critz

Imo you start to like the sound because you're getting used to it. I bet that people that don't have Syn Strings and would listen again to newest track, would have the exactly same reaction. 
If you think that I have this feeling because I don't accept that someone likes Syn Strings, I would remember you that I told troll to nobody, while people is calling trolls me and other that insist to say that that library is not working well.
If we should listen to @Guy Bacos ' suggestion, every thread would be a bunch of people praising for a certain library. Not a mixture of opinions and a place for discussion.


----------



## Saxer

Critz said:


> Imo you start to like the sound because you're getting used to it.


Why do you think that?


----------



## Critz

Saxer said:


> Why do you think that?


because it happens, and because it doesn't make sense that you start to like something with a slow burn! 
One think is the learning curve that a library has, and that means people mock-ups become better and better with time. Another think is to say "This morning I played 2 notes with Syn Strings and it sounded so great! Why I didn't like it that much during previous 2 monthes??!"


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> Imo you start to like the sound because you're getting used to it.



Try harder.

I heard so many times the washing machine, now I'm in love with the sound! 2nd cycle, beautiful!


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> the more we listen to something, the most we start to like it; it works even with shitty songs



And there is the problem right there. Becuase you and others are calling the song crap or rubbish does that mean the people that actually love the song, are they in the wrong should the song now become crap becuase you don't like it or you have failed to understand it, or becuase you don't understand how others can make that song work for them, or you fail to see what other see in the song.

Or is it that you simply don't understand how taste and opinions vary, the world is pretty big get used to it, not every one is going to agree with you and you should get used to that too.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Sovereign said:


> This is tantamount to saying synchron does it right, every other library sounds wrong.



No it's not, and it's not what I said.


----------



## C-Wave

Guy Bacos said:


> I understand that this is the idea of a forum, to debate and give your comments, but it still baffles me why it bothers some people that others may love synchron. I said it before, hey, if you don't like it, think it sounds like shit, simply don'y buy it and go praise another string library thread.


Hey Guy, my attitude exactly.. now notice how they responded. It’ a different take on life altogether.. so i’m afraid this idea of live and let live don’t catch with some people.


----------



## C-Wave

novaburst said:


> And there is the problem right there. Becuase you and others are calling the song crap or rubbish does that mean the people that actually love the song, are they in the wrong should the song now become crap becuase you don't like it or you have failed to understand it, or becuase you don't understand how others can make that song work for them, or you fail to see what other see in the song.
> 
> Or is it that you simply don't understand how taste and opinions vary, the world is pretty big get used to it, not every one is going to agree with you and you should get used to that too.


Well Said! Coudn’t word it any better.


----------



## meradium

This is such a hilarious thread  time for another break again


----------



## Casiquire

Critz said:


> ... it doesn't make sense that you start to like something with a slow burn!



Wow. Tell that to literally all of my favorite albums.


----------



## Tfis

Does someone know how to mix mix different mic positions inside my daw (cubase)?
I saw there's a VE preset, but i don't use VE (and I see no reason using it, because i only use 1 computer).

Is it just multiple instances of VI on the same midi channel?

VI has multiple audio outputs, but they can't be layered, only switched.

Sorry for beeing on-topic


----------



## Critz

Casiquire said:


> Wow. Tell that to literally all of my favorite albums.


Of course you may need time to appreciate some kind of art.. but we are talking about sound...not composition. We are talking about how we judge something that reproduce the reality. Our feeling is istinctive.


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> We are talking about how we judge something that reproduce the reality. Our feeling is istinctive.



Yes we all have instinct, while the norm is the baked in mellow sound there of course is an instinct for that, 

Orhcestral instruments can sound very clean and clear, giving off a lot of clarity
This is the instinct I get from SyS, I have listened to so many muckups with the baked mellow expected sound, and also many from the VSL department making usage of the SyS and it provokes fresh feel, newness, clarity.

The hall that VSL use and the recording technology are giving this feel and I love it.

What you are after is the expected sound, or the familiar sound, I would also say the safe sound the sound that everyone likes the popular sound, the can't go wrong with this sound.

While that sound is ok, there is to much of it
So what ever string library you get it kind of sounds the same (safe) apart from a few, lass, and I would say HWS, 

So I am very thankful for VSL for standing there ground under years of criticism they stuck with there formaler and ingredient.

Creating a new sound, a fresh sound a sound that has a lot of clarity and newness feel and instinct.


----------



## romantic

So we reached page 101 now ... even before the release of the player, release of all samples (and even before NAMM opening)

I just hope for VSL that Oscar Wilde was right (The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about ...)

And in the meantimei I continue to hope to get the next sections soon! I can live with VI-Pro for now, but missing Legatos somehow hurts ...


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> Of course you may need time to appreciate some kind of art.. but we are talking about sound...not composition. We are talking about how we judge something that reproduce the reality. Our feeling is istinctive.



If you're an animal, yes. In my case, the way I perceive things is a somewhat more complex and multi-faceted matter and I would assume that this is the case for most accomplished and sensitive people who engage in artistic endeavors.

Guess you're also not a fan of single malts.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> If you're an animal, yes. In my case, the way I perceive things is a somewhat more complex and multi-faceted matter and I would assume that this is the case for most accomplished and sensitive people who engage in artistic endeavors.
> 
> Guess you're also not a fan of single malts.


I'm getting a bit tired of your insults, @Jimmy Hellfire.


----------



## Cartoon

Does anyone know if they are going live on Facebook during "Namm Show"?
Or maybe on their Instagram "Synchron Stage" - Channel?


----------



## Sovereign

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> No it's not, and it's not what I said.


So what *did* you say when you wrote "some people have quite skewed expectations of how a legato patch should sound like." Because to me it seems you're definitely saying we should not expect the legato sound current libraries other than Synchron provide, because that is a "skewed expectation". There's no way to argue around this. The reality is that the Synchron legato seems to be the abnormality here.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> I'm getting a bit tired of your insults, @Jimmy Hellfire.



When or how you feel you've been insulted is beyond me. Besides, a guy in your "primary profession" should know how to handle heat on the internet, right.


----------



## muziksculp

Hello,

To all of the posters on this thread, please let's remember that this thread is about *Synchron Strings*, and not about pointing fingers, or criticizing each other's posts, please .. Please .. .*PLEASE ! *

*Let's stay on topic*. and keep this thread exciting, helpful and professional.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## stigc56

In the last few days I have spent quite some time to create VST Expression Maps for VSL Synchron Strings, please find them here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aslsurrvnm9ud4k/AAAymQpQ-885owuKmbP9JHzKa?dl=0
If you can find the time! 
By the way I have made them work with a Lemur project that was originally started by Mihkel. The transfer of all the articulations are done by a VBA routine in Excel. I will up all the files soon.


----------



## C-Wave

stigc56 said:


> In the last few days I have spent quite some time to create VST Expression Maps for VSL Synchron Strings, please find them here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aslsurrvnm9ud4k/AAAymQpQ-885owuKmbP9JHzKa?dl=0
> If you can find the time!
> By the way I have made them work with a Lemur project that was originally started by Mihkel. The transfer of all the articulations are done by a VBA routine in Excel. I will up all the files soon.


Thank you so much. I think this is your first post in this thread and yet you chose to be so useful to others.. God bless, thanks so much.


----------



## ctsai89

muziksculp said:


> Hello,
> 
> To all of the posters on this thread, please let's remember that this thread is about *Synchron Strings*, and not about pointing fingers, or criticizing each other's posts, please .. Please .. .*PLEASE ! *
> 
> *Let's stay on topic*. and keep this thread exciting, helpful and professional.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp



Paradox time! So you just pointed fingers on all of us who pointed fingers. 

Back to SS! 

I do think someone needs to do a mockup of Elgar or Tchaikovsky or something as SS's demo


----------



## Casiquire

Critz said:


> Of course you may need time to appreciate some kind of art.. but we are talking about sound...not composition. We are talking about how we judge something that reproduce the reality. Our feeling is istinctive.



I still disagree in two fundamental ways. 

1, some libraries truly do take getting used to. VSL has always been like that for me. Dimension Strings didn't sound too pretty in all the examples I heard or in my first few tests with it, but in the context of a piece of music it's wonderful. 

And 2, Synchron has a really great sound. Even the legato sounds almost exactly like in that live video, quality of the piece notwithstanding.

Regarding comments about legato, my interpretation wasn't that all other libraries are wrong, but that Synchron's legato is good, even if it's different from what our ears are used to in the sampling world. I think the legatos are very close to how they sound in the live performance in Synchron, and I agree I'd like to hear a mockup of the same piece using the library.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Some information on the Synchron Player from the NAMM press release: "(...) A Beta version will be presented at NAMM, with the software slated for release in spring, 2018. (...)"

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i2yqn468...nJa?dl=0&preview=PressRel_VSL_NAMM_2018_E.doc

That's quite a long time.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Some information on the Synchron Player from the NAMM press release: "(...) A Beta version will be presented at NAMM, with the software slated for release in spring, 2018. (...)"
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i2yqn468...nJa?dl=0&preview=PressRel_VSL_NAMM_2018_E.doc
> 
> That's quite a long time.


hmmmmm. Gotta say, that timeline is disappointing BUT if it means getting it RIGHT on release take the time needed.


----------



## novaburst

Tfis said:


> saw there's a VE preset, but i don't use VE (and I see no reason using it, because i only use 1 computer).



I think you should use VE it will make life a lot easier,as you can take advantage of the mixer plus it will lower cpu usage plus it will act as multi timbral, plus you can load effects into it.


----------



## novaburst

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Some information on the Synchron Player from the NAMM press release: "(...) A Beta version will be presented at NAMM, with the software slated for release in spring, 2018. (...)"
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i2yqn468...nJa?dl=0&preview=PressRel_VSL_NAMM_2018_E.doc
> 
> That's quite a long time.



Nice find,



Rob Elliott said:


> BUT if it means getting it RIGHT on release take the time needed.



I guess this is what matters in the end


----------



## muziksculp

Yes, that could mean quite a long wait ahead for their Synchron Player to be released, I'm glad they are not rushing it, but rather trying to perfect it, and make sure it does what it has to do with excellent results.

This also means I won't be installing Synchron Strings until Spring 2018, when they finally have the new Synchron Player, and the rest of the library's missing content completed. Not a problem, I have lots of libraries I need to discover until Synch. Strings it officially completed, and ready for prime time production tasks.


----------



## Casiquire

In December I believe the word was that the sections would be out in February. I hope there are no further delays on that end, I think VSL might have a better idea of how long samples take to edit versus how long new players take


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> This also means I won't be installing Synchron Strings until Spring 2018, when they finally have the new Synchron Player, and the rest of the library's missing content completed.



Maybe it's a good Idea to install the library and to familiarise yourself with it, so that when the new player is finalized, and ready for use you can give a good verdict as to the two types of usages with and without.

The player does look like a time saver most of all, but once you are set up with ensemble pro or ensemble it's always there saved.


----------



## Tfis

novaburst said:


> I think you should use VE it will make life a lot easier,as you can take advantage of the mixer plus it will lower cpu usage plus it will act as multi timbral, plus you can load effects into it.



All these things I can do inside cubase. Never had a problem with CPU.

But my question was:
Are the different MIC positions of the Vienna Ensemble Synchron preset just different instances of Vienna Instrument?
I see, that VI has different audio outputs, but they are hard-wired to the selected matrix and can only be switched, not layered.

I think I'll have to wait for the new player before integrating synchron strings to my template and building expression maps.


----------



## novaburst

Tfis said:


> think I'll have to wait for the new player before integrating synchron strings to my template and building expression maps.



Or you can just use VE that comes with the install, as it will be the same equivalent as the new player the only difference is you will need to load any instances you need for layering, its quite quick and simple then you want have VI scattered all over the place.


----------



## muziksculp

novaburst said:


> Maybe it's a good Idea to install the library and to familiarise yourself with it, so that when the new player is finalized, and ready for use you can give a good verdict as to the two types of usages with and without.
> 
> The player does look like a time saver most of all, but once you are set up with ensemble pro or ensemble it's always there saved.



Yes, I might do that once all the sample content of Synch. Strings has been completed.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Cartoon

Anyone here on this forum who is on the Namm? And does this person have any reactions on the Synchron player she/he wants to share?

Excited!!


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Cartoon said:


> Anyone here on this forum who is on the Namm? And does this person have any reactions on the Synchron player she/he wants to share?
> 
> Excited!!


+1


----------



## Paul T McGraw




----------



## Britpack50

Paul T McGraw said:


>



Cool.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> +1


+2


----------



## Mousavi

Paul T McGraw said:


>




Shame on the proceedings/developments of Synch. strings :(


----------



## stigc56

Paul T McGraw said:


>



I don't like this version. I think it could be made sound much better. It needs some proper programming! You have to work so much more with the tempo and short notes are NOT always short!


----------



## Celador

I just did something ludicrous: I created a cheap quantized chord pattern and played it with the ensemble spiccato patches (or staccato if spiccato was not available) of my different libraries. I didn't edit the notes or velocities for the different libraries, so this is not a fair comparison at all. I just wanted to get a feel for the sound color of the shorts in the different libraries. I think the synchron strings really stand out regarding these articulations. Which one is your favourite?

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/spiccato-mp3.11497/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## C-Wave

stigc56 said:


> I don't like this version. I think it could be made sound much better. It needs some proper programming! You have to work so much more with the tempo and short notes are NOT always short!


I don’t understand. Yes some notes came a bit early, maybe 1/32 earlier, some Woodwinds attack can go one step lower, but the overall work is commendable.. bravo. Great job.
Edit : also last 3 beats came a bit fast and with not enough dynamics.. leaving a feeling that the movement did not get a proper closure.


----------



## novaburst

stigc56 said:


> I don't like this version. I think it could be made sound much better. It needs some proper programming! You have to work so much more with the tempo and short notes are NOT always short!



Wow your ears pick up so much, in listening my self I thought there could have been more depth and low end and I think this could have been achieved by layering and giving the bass instruments more attention.


----------



## Jack Weaver

Cartoon said:


> Anyone here on this forum who is on the Namm? And does this person have any reactions on the Synchron player she/he wants to share?


Paul was kind enough to give me a personal 15 minute run through on the Synchron Player beta yesterday morning before his first demo.

I’m on the way home now (think multiple flights) and don’t want to spend all my time typing with my thumbs but when I get home I’ll give a short report on what I saw.

.


----------



## stigc56

Well this is the problem 1/32! It doesn't make sense in classical music. I have recently been playing some music from Carmen with some classical string players. Although there is an overall tempo the actual placement of the beats in the bar is very different from the grid we use in a DAW. That's why it takes so long time to program that kind of music I think. Try search for Beethoven 5th on YouTube and you will find many recordings, that sounds a lot better.


----------



## Celador

Here are a few pics and a video:
http://www.miroc.co.jp/report/namm-2018-day2-vienna/


----------



## Critz

I mean...William programmed it. How good could it be?


----------



## Casiquire

I'm not really a fan of the mockup either, though I appreciate all the work that went into it! This is a great example of what good orchestration can do, for all the people out there worried about new libraries but not learning about how to orchestrate. All the moments here that involve more than just strings sound great to me. All the moments where the strings are alone sound mechanical. Good writing and well recorded libraries!


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

I actually like the sony vr guy pic.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> I mean...William programmed it. How good could it be?



Not nice.

BTW Critz, ever heard of cyberbullying?


----------



## Casiquire

Guy Bacos said:


> Not nice.



My best demonstration that negativity doesn't mean honesty, sometimes it's just negativity.


----------



## Cartoon

Jack Weaver said:


> Paul was kind enough to give me a personal 15 minute run through on the Synchron Player beta yesterday morning before his first demo.
> 
> I’m on the way home now (think multiple flights) and don’t want to spend all my time typing with my thumbs but when I get home I’ll give a short report on what I saw.
> 
> .



I am still waiting


----------



## Jack Weaver

Cartoon said:


> I am still waiting




OK, I'm back in the saddle again. My brief impression of Synchron Player after Paul squeezed in the time to give me a personal run through at the VSL NAMM show booth on Friday morning: (as I recall it from a day and a half ago - I didn't take notes)

There are two main parts to Synchron Player. The upper half of the GUI is dedicated to Articulation choice. It's VSL's effort to simplify access to all the many articulations available. They've created something akin to a folder tree. For example, there are 4 main basic articulation folders that may be chosen - Longs, shorts, legato, etc. When you choose one of these basic articulation folders a different set of keyswitch keys are highlighted in three colors on the same familiar 88-key keyboard like we are used to seeing in Vienna Instruments. As you move further through the folder tree (each level of the folders are a different, bright, easy-to-see color) each tree level changes the keyswitch configuration of the GUI display 88-key keyboard.

So for example you choose legato. Then you choose the type of legato, then a more specific type of legato, etc. - until you reach the specific articulation you're looking for. At each step along the way the visible key switches change along with your pathway in the tree hierarchy - allowing you to choose your next direction in the tree.

Seemingly it will be visually much more apparent to quickly find, access, and play all the articulations that you've purchased. I don't remember seeing anything like the multi-cell matrices that we're used to currently with Vienna Instruments. It seems the Tree system is their effort to replace this. Paul was able to almost instantly get to the articulation he was looking for. (I didn't have 'hands-on' for this demo.)

The bottom half of the player is what I would call the control area. There are three tabs at the top of this section - as I remember they were called something like Controllers, FX and Mixer.

The area under the 'Controllers' tab is where you find MIDI CC sliders like you are used to seeing in Vienna Instruments - Xfade, Expression, Tuning, etc. The FX tab houses the EQ, reverb and fx you have come to expect. The Mixer tab has the ability to address all of the various mic combinations available in Synchron Strings Standard and Full packages.

There is of course a lot more to this piece of software. I only intended to give a very, very basic rundown. I've given probably just enough to frustrate anyone who wants to know more.

It is resizable. Paul demoed it in Logic. The day before my demo Logic released ver. 10.4. I brought up Logic's new articulation ID capability and Paul was aware of it but it has not yet been tested with the beta Synchron Player as of last Friday. So he didn't have anything concrete to say on that subject yet.

Paul mentioned that everyday there is a very intense and active developers meeting on it. I expect there will be a lot of finessing on it before it's released.

I invite Paul or anyone else at VSL to feel free to jump in an correct any impression I got wrong in this short commentary.

HTH

.


----------



## Britpack50

Celador said:


> I just did something ludicrous: I created a cheap quantized chord pattern and played it with the ensemble spiccato patches (or staccato if spiccato was not available) of my different libraries. I didn't edit the notes or velocities for the different libraries, so this is not a fair comparison at all. I just wanted to get a feel for the sound color of the shorts in the different libraries. I think the synchron strings really stand out regarding these articulations. Which one is your favourite?
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/spiccato-mp3.11497/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Just commenting on the sound colour. I like the first best. 2nd and 3rd are more muzzy/less defined, 4th is more buzzy, 5th softer but more clarity, 6th nice, probably my second favourite


----------



## Critz

Jack Weaver said:


> OK, I'm back in the saddle again. My brief impression of Synchron Player after Paul squeezed in the time to give me a personal run through at the VSL NAMM show booth on Friday morning: (as I recall it from a day and a half ago - I didn't take notes)
> 
> There are two main parts to Synchron Player. The upper half of the GUI is dedicated to Articulation choice. It's VSL's effort to simplify access to all the many articulations available. They've created something akin to a folder tree. For example, there are 4 main basic articulation folders that may be chosen - Longs, shorts, legato, etc. When you choose one of these basic articulation folders a different set of keyswitch keys are highlighted in three colors on the same familiar 88-key keyboard like we are used to seeing in Vienna Instruments. As you move further through the folder tree (each level of the folders are a different, bright, easy-to-see color) each tree level changes the keyswitch configuration of the GUI display 88-key keyboard.
> 
> So for example you choose legato. Then you choose the type of legato, then a more specific type of legato, etc. - until you reach the specific articulation you're looking for. At each step along the way the visible key switches change along with your pathway in the tree hierarchy - allowing you to choose your next direction in the tree.
> 
> Seemingly it will be visually much more apparent to quickly find, access, and play all the articulations that you've purchased. I don't remember seeing anything like the multi-cell matrices that we're used to currently with Vienna Instruments. It seems the Tree system is their effort to replace this. Paul was able to almost instantly get to the articulation he was looking for. (I didn't have 'hands-on' for this demo.)
> 
> The bottom half of the player is what I would call the control area. There are three tabs at the top of this section - as I remember they were called something like Controllers, FX and Mixer.
> 
> The area under the 'Controllers' tab is where you find MIDI CC sliders like you are used to seeing in Vienna Instruments - Xfade, Expression, Tuning, etc. The FX tab houses the EQ, reverb and fx you have come to expect. The Mixer tab has the ability to address all of the various mic combinations available in Synchron Strings Standard and Full packages.
> 
> There is of course a lot more to this piece of software. I only intended to give a very, very basic rundown. I've given probably just enough to frustrate anyone who wants to know more.
> 
> It is resizable. Paul demoed it in Logic. The day before my demo Logic released ver. 10.4. I brought up Logic's new articulation ID capability and Paul was aware of it but it has not yet been tested with the beta Synchron Player as of last Friday. So he didn't have anything concrete to say on that subject yet.
> 
> Paul mentioned that everyday there is a very intense and active developers meeting on it. I expect there will be a lot of finessing on it before it's released.
> 
> I invite Paul or anyone else at VSL to feel free to jump in an correct any impression I got wrong in this short commentary.
> 
> HTH
> 
> .



Minimum need of keyswitching..definitely.
Did they re-designed the whole concept maybe?


----------



## Critz

It doesn't sound like a good think to me.
So to access a patch, I have to consequently press several keyswitches? I have alsl to remember the right order. Sounds like a nightmare to program. But I' surely missing something..


----------



## Celador

Britpack50 said:


> Just commenting on the sound colour. I like the first best. 2nd and 3rd are more muzzy/less defined, 4th is more buzzy, 5th softer but more clarity, 6th nice, probably my second favourite



Thanks for your comments. My favourites are 1,5 and 6. Number 2 and 3 sound a little bit like woodwinds and 4 sounds just horrible. If there are no other opinions I will reveal the libraries .



Critz said:


> Minimum need of keyswitching..definitely.



I think the Synchron Player reduces the need for key switches if you are playing legato lines:
- The legato speed is adjusted automatically.
- You can controll vibrato with one CC
- You can control the short layer with another CC.

So you can sculpt the sound of the legato easily without any key switches. With the current matrices in VI you have to use much more keyswitches to achieve this and you can't control vibrato and the short layer at the same time.


----------



## Critz

Celador said:


> Thanks for your comments. My favourites are 1,5 and 6. Number 2 and 3 sound a little bit like woodwinds and 4 sounds just horrible. If there are no other opinions I will reveal the libraries .
> 
> 
> I think the Synchron Player reduces the need for key switches if you are playing legato lines:
> - The legato speed is adjusted automatically.
> - You can controll vibrato with one CC
> - You can control the short layer with another CC.
> 
> So you can sculpt the sound of the legato easily without any key switches. With the current matrices in VI you have to use much more keyswitches to achieve this and you can't control vibrato and the short layer at the same time.



Yes but it means less keyswitches respect VI Pro. All other libraries already work like that!!


----------



## Ashermusic

Jack Weaver said:


> Paul squeezed in the time to give me a personal run through at the VSL NAMM show booth :
> 
> .




He did so for me as well. I was impressed how if you set your MIDI cc assignments up properly, how much you can accomplish just e.g.using the modwheel to go between staccato to marcato to legato. The new GUI is a million times better and easier to understand. I think when it is finished, it is going to be a winner.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I hope you can still combine/stack articulations and define how it should be done (by velocity, speed etc.). And that there will be humanizing options.

@Jack Weaver
Did Paul say something about this new feature "True Dynamics"? It sounds interesting, but I have no idea what that could be. It is mentioned in the new catalogue: "True Dynamics – capturing pitch dependent dynamics response (...)".


----------



## doubleattack

Critz said:


> It doesn't sound like a good think to me.
> So to access a patch, I have to consequently press several keyswitches? I have alsl to remember the right order. Sounds like a nightmare to program. But I' surely missing something..



Interesting how you can judge something you never had your hands on it.


----------



## FriFlo

Personally, I couldn't care less for any new concept of keyswitching like this. The GUI will be invisible to me most of the time I use a library, hidden on the monitor of a slave PC. The articulations - however they work (keys, CC, combination of keys or program change) - will be programmed into expression maps which I can change editing but also switch live from an iPad with labelled articulation buttons. So, whatever they throw in there doesn't bother me at all. The only thing of interest to me in that matter would be thing said like layering articulations without needing to create a second instrument instance and AI intelligently switching articulations. The first aspect would be a welcome addition, as it is not possible with VIpro (at least not free layering of all articulations available). The second I do not have high hopes for, as all other developers so far failed to make that really work. In other words: I never let scripts determine the articulations, instead I want full control. 
Apart from these handling aspects, the Synchron Player needs to have a fully midi controllable microphone mixer with the ability of purging unused samples from RAM. I suppose that should be doable ...
But to really make this player great, I hope they are working on some things to make the problems of the library itself disappear!
1) They need to re-edit the short notes, not cutting in so early in the sample. The Player could give you a dial or switch changing between best sounding shorts and best playable shorts. Many developers have done that successfully and IMO it is why the short notes have some problems, sounding a bit artificial, although they actually sound great.
2) I hope, some of the legato patches will makes more sense or can be improved by some scripting magic ... I hope, but I am not sure this will work.
3) Probably, many more aspects, but I cannot think of all of them now.


----------



## Casiquire

doubleattack said:


> Interesting how you can judge something you never had your hands on it.



Well, if that doesn't summarize this whole thread...


----------



## Critz

Casiquire said:


> Well, if that doesn't summarize this whole thread...


VSL could help, if they stop to delay release dates.


----------



## Sovereign

FriFlo said:


> 2) I hope, some of the legato patches will makes more sense or can be improved by some scripting magic ... I hope, but I am not sure this will work.


They should add a legato sample start slider, because they're also cutting too early into the transitions as far as I am concerned.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Sovereign said:


> They should add a legato sample start slider, because they're also cutting too early into the transitions as far as I am concerned.


I would actually like this for the 'shorts' - owning the library - the shorts feel a bit 'cut off' at the front side - yes they are 'easy' to play BUT - I'd rather deal with more difficult task of playing in the parts than not have the 'front-side' gobbly goop just before the PEAK of the sample. To me that 'stuff' is key to realism on all samples - especially the shorts. IMHO.


----------



## FriFlo

Rob Elliott said:


> I would actually like this for the 'shorts' - owning the library - the shorts feel a bit 'cut off' at the front side - yes they are 'easy' to play BUT - I'd rather deal with more difficult task of playing in the parts than not have the 'front-side' gobbly goop just before the PEAK of the sample. To me that 'stuff' is key to realism on all samples - especially the shorts. IMHO.


That is what I wrote a page back.


----------



## Rob Elliott

FriFlo said:


> That is what I wrote a page back.


Sorry about that - the length of THIS has to have set some kind of a record - mother of all threads!!!!


----------



## maestro2be

I had time to do this mock-up this weekend and wanted to share it with everyone. Last weekend I watched the movie Braveheart and was inspired to try Synchron Strings with the scene, "Murron's Burial".

I have no sheet music so it's all by ear. All instruments were played in live using a TEC Breath Controller.

Some things to note:

1. I did NOT try to "get the same mix as the movie soundtrack". I simply used the Strings exactly as they are provided with the VE Pro template VSL gives you. So if you go compare it to the "real thing" remember that I made no attempt to EQ it to match that. I liked it how it came out. While it's probably to "bright" it clearly gives you an idea of how it sounds out of the box with no additional EQ's or processing. We all know that no matter what I do, someone will say it's to bright, someone will say it's fine and others saying it's to dark lol.

2. This is "my interpretation" of this piece. We all know that we could spend 600 hours tweaking every knob and plugin we own to change the entire piece and program every note by note and still never be happy. I simply won't put in that kind of time for an unpaid demo that frankly is probably going to be made fun of and cause backlash .

3. I struggled a little not having the remaining legato sections, no doubt about that. It took me quite a bit more time having to fuss with trying to get sustains to at least appear to half ass connect and phrase.

4. I am driving the whole mix into a hardware Bricasti M7.

I really enjoyed this process. I got to become much more familiar with the product but I still have much to learn about it. I was able to have a half ass template completed by simply doing this demo. Overall, I am impressed with how they sound and I know that I can make them even sound better than this if I spend more time but I am out of time as the weekend comes to an end. So many of you have such different levels of training, ears, preference, Studio Setups etc. that it's really endless what you could accomplish using these strings. I don't expect everyone to like what I did here but I sure hope it helps someone other than myself . Let the bashing begin!

<iframe width="100%" height="275" src="" style="border: none;"></iframe>


----------



## Mousavi

maestro2be said:


> I had time to do this mock-up this weekend and wanted to share it with everyone. Last weekend I watched the movie Braveheart and was inspired to try Synchron Strings with the scene, "Murron's Burial".
> 
> I have no sheet music so it's all by ear. All instruments were played in live using a TEC Breath Controller.
> 
> Some things to note:
> 
> 1. I did NOT try to "get the same mix as the movie soundtrack". I simply used the Strings exactly as they are provided with the VE Pro template VSL gives you. So if you go compare it to the "real thing" remember that I made no attempt to EQ it to match that. I liked it how it came out. While it's probably to "bright" it clearly gives you an idea of how it sounds out of the box with no additional EQ's or processing. We all know that no matter what I do, someone will say it's to bright, someone will say it's fine and others saying it's to dark lol.
> 
> 2. This is "my interpretation" of this piece. We all know that we could spend 600 hours tweaking every knob and plugin we own to change the entire piece and program every note by note and still never be happy. I simply won't put in that kind of time for an unpaid demo that frankly is probably going to be made fun of and cause backlash .
> 
> 3. I struggled a little not having the remaining legato sections, no doubt about that. It took me quite a bit more time having to fuss with trying to get sustains to at least appear to half ass connect and phrase.
> 
> 4. I am driving the whole mix into a hardware Bricasti M7.
> 
> I really enjoyed this process. I got to become much more familiar with the product but I still have much to learn about it. I was able to have a half ass template completed by simply doing this demo. Overall, I am impressed with how they sound and I know that I can make them even sound better than this if I spend more time but I am out of time as the weekend comes to an end. So many of you have such different levels of training, ears, preference, Studio Setups etc. that it's really endless what you could accomplish using these strings. I don't expect everyone to like what I did here but I sure hope it helps someone other than myself . Let the bashing begin!
> 
> <iframe width="100%" height="275" src="" style="border: none;"></iframe>





Shame on the proceedings/developments of Synch. strings :(


----------



## C-Wave

Mousavi said:


> Shame on the proceedings/developments of Synch. strings :(


ok thank you.. excellent input!


----------



## novaburst

maestro2be said:


> This is "my interpretation" of this piece. We all know that we could spend 600 hours tweaking every knob and plugin we own to change the entire piece and program every note by note and still never be happy. I simply won't put in that kind of time for an unpaid demo



I think you should have put a little more time I the muckup as there were simple things you could have achieved with a little more dedication to your compersition.

I could hear you piece but I could not feel your piece, you was not on a time limit so you could have waited a little before you posted.

What ever you do in this world one way or the other it will be criticized, but it should not stop us from doing our best.

In anycase appreciate the post,


----------



## Critz

maestro2be said:


> I had time to do this mock-up this weekend and wanted to share it with everyone. Last weekend I watched the movie Braveheart and was inspired to try Synchron Strings with the scene, "Murron's Burial".
> 
> I have no sheet music so it's all by ear. All instruments were played in live using a TEC Breath Controller.
> 
> Some things to note:
> 
> 1. I did NOT try to "get the same mix as the movie soundtrack".  I simply used the Strings exactly as they are provided with the VE Pro template VSL gives you. So if you go compare it to the "real thing" remember that I made no attempt to EQ it to match that. I liked it how it came out. While it's probably to "bright" it clearly gives you an idea of how it sounds out of the box with no additional EQ's or processing. We all know that no matter what I do, someone will say it's to bright, someone will say it's fine and others saying it's to dark lol.
> 
> 2. This is "my interpretation" of this piece. We all know that we could spend 600 hours tweaking every knob and plugin we own to change the entire piece and program every note by note and still never be happy. I simply won't put in that kind of time for an unpaid demo that frankly is probably going to be made fun of and cause backlash .
> 
> 3. I struggled a little not having the remaining legato sections, no doubt about that. It took me quite a bit more time having to fuss with trying to get sustains to at least appear to half ass connect and phrase.
> 
> 4. I am driving the whole mix into a hardware Bricasti M7.
> 
> I really enjoyed this process. I got to become much more familiar with the product but I still have much to learn about it. I was able to have a half ass template completed by simply doing this demo. Overall, I am impressed with how they sound and I know that I can make them even sound better than this if I spend more time but I am out of time as the weekend comes to an end. So many of you have such different levels of training, ears, preference, Studio Setups etc. that it's really endless what you could accomplish using these strings. I don't expect everyone to like what I did here but I sure hope it helps someone other than myself . Let the bashing begin!
> 
> <iframe width="100%" height="275" src="" style="border: none;"></iframe>



That would be pretty good, if this where 1999...


----------



## Sovereign

Critz said:


> That would be pretty good, if this where 1999...


I thought it sounded quite ok on its own, taking into account the missing legatos. Then I listened to the original (which I didn't known) and I'd have to agree. I'll refrain from doing a mockup myself with other libraries but the sound of the original is just not there in the Synchron samples. And I certainly don't agree that Maestro2be is to blame here as Novaburst seems to suggest. No matter how long you're going to massage the Synchron samples, it's never going to sound like that.


----------



## Cartoon

Sovereign said:


> I thought it sounded quite ok on its own, taking into account the missing legatos. Then I listened to the original (which I didn't known) and I'd have to agree. I'll refrain from doing a mockup myself with other libraries but the sound of the original is just not there in the Synchron samples. And I certainly don't agree that Maestro2be is to blame here as Novaburst seems to suggest. No matter how long you're going to massage the Synchron samples, it's never going to sound like that.



Of course it will never sound like the orchestra version.....
Nooo sample libary can achieve that...



Critz said:


> That would be pretty good, if this where 1999...



The original song is from 1995 
But I know what your point is...You want to blame SyS, as always!


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> certainly don't agree that Maestro2be is to blame here as Novaburst seems to suggest. No matter how long you're going to massage the Synchron



Wow it's so easy to go topsy turvy when you make a post, i will try to explain my self with out starting world war 33.



maestro2be said:


> This is "my interpretation" of this piece.



This tells us that the composer was not trying to go for the original interpretation so it really did not matter if there were parts that sounded like the original or not.



maestro2be said:


> We all know that we could spend 600 hours tweaking every knob and plugin we own to change the entire piece and program every note by note and still never be happy. I simply won't put in that kind of time for an unpaid demo



This tells me that a little more effort could have been put in the piece.



maestro2be said:


> frankly is probably going to be made fun of and cause backlash .



There is a lot of unconstructive criticism on this forum, especially this thread, I am sure many would be afraid to post a piece here, I was trying to bring to the composers attention even if your piece is great or bad it will still get criticism so just do you best anyway.



Sovereign said:


> but the sound of the original is just not there in the Synchron samples. And I certainly don't agree that Maestro2be is to blame here as Novaburst



This is a kind of here we go again the familiar faces with the same old statement maybe or maybe not I really don't know if the SyS can sound like the original piece but that is niether here or there, I was looking for more feel and vibe and believed with a little more time spent the composer could have achieved this.



maestro2be said:


> it's really endless what you could accomplish using these strings.



Please take note what users feel when they use SyS.


----------



## Sovereign

Cartoon said:


> Of course it will never sound like the orchestra version.....
> Nooo sample libary can achieve that...


Nonsense, other libraries can get way closer to the original.


----------



## Sovereign

novaburst said:


> This tells us that the composer was not trying to go for the original interpretation so it really did not matter if there were parts that sounded like the original or not.


Original interpretation in terms of orchestration and limited time is more likely since he himself mentioned he has no score. Not an admission he is not shooting to get as close as possible to the original within the time he wanted to spend on it, otherwise doing a 'mockup' is pretty pointless anyway. Given what Synchron can do and how it sounds I even think he did well. If you feel more time and effort would lead to a result more closely resembling the original go for it yourself.


----------



## Ashermusic

Here is my advice, as a person of ...ahem... a certain age and level of experience

1. Wait until the finished product is released before putting much energy into thinking about it. You probably have other libraries to work with in the meantime.
2. When it is, listen to the demos and what users say, and make your best guess as to whether or not you should buy it.
3. If you buy it, know to a certainty that there will be things you like about it and things that you do not,. things that you will find it does well, and things that it does not.
4. Focus on what it does well and don't gnaw your insides out about what it does not, or write it off as a bad purchase.

Waste less time heatedly debating the merits and deficits of an unreleased product. Life is pretty short and there is music to be made.


----------



## Saxer

Ashermusic said:


> Waste less time heatedly debating the merits and deficits of an unreleased product. Life is pretty short and there is music to be made.


+1


----------



## Symfoniq

Ashermusic said:


> Waste less time heatedly debating the merits and deficits of an unreleased product. Life is pretty short and there is music to be made.



Life is absolutely too short, and most of this thread has been a waste of time and angst.

However, there would be no debate right now if VSL hadn't released an unfinished product. With unfinished articulations and an unfinished sample player, they've practically invited the level of criticism they are receiving.

I say this as someone who has sunk close to $10K into VSL products: Synchron Strings is a textbook case of how not to bring a new product to market.


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> If you feel more time and effort would lead to a result more closely resembling the original go for it yourself.



Can you wait a few months or so I would be happy to to do a muckup on the piece, .........of my own interpretation.


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> I even think he did well.



Every body hurry up and post your muckups using SyS it looks like you want get any more criticism please hurry before he has a change of heart............


That is quite the statement coming from you @Sovereign,  you actually said someone did well using SyS hahaha


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> Nonsense, other libraries can get way closer to the original.



@Sovereign ,

Do you have some faith/optimism that VSL *Synchron Strings* will sound better, or as good as CS ? or Spitfire Strings ? or any of your other favorite String libraries when all the sample content is completed, and the Synchron Player is ready ?


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> @Sovereign ,
> Do you have some faith/optimism that VSL *Synchron Strings* will sound better, or as good as CS ? or Spitfire Strings ? or any of your other favorite String libraries when all the sample content is completed, and the Synchron Player is ready ?


Ask me again when "all the sample content is completed" and the Synchron player is out. I'm willing to give them a chance to improve from where they are now. It's up to VSL in the end to get a competitive product out there.


----------



## Eptesicus

maestro2be said:


> I had time to do this mock-up this weekend and wanted to share it with everyone. Last weekend I watched the movie Braveheart and was inspired to try Synchron Strings with the scene, "Murron's Burial".
> 
> I have no sheet music so it's all by ear. All instruments were played in live using a TEC Breath Controller.
> 
> Some things to note:
> 
> 1. I did NOT try to "get the same mix as the movie soundtrack". I simply used the Strings exactly as they are provided with the VE Pro template VSL gives you. So if you go compare it to the "real thing" remember that I made no attempt to EQ it to match that. I liked it how it came out. While it's probably to "bright" it clearly gives you an idea of how it sounds out of the box with no additional EQ's or processing. We all know that no matter what I do, someone will say it's to bright, someone will say it's fine and others saying it's to dark lol.
> 
> 2. This is "my interpretation" of this piece. We all know that we could spend 600 hours tweaking every knob and plugin we own to change the entire piece and program every note by note and still never be happy. I simply won't put in that kind of time for an unpaid demo that frankly is probably going to be made fun of and cause backlash .
> 
> 3. I struggled a little not having the remaining legato sections, no doubt about that. It took me quite a bit more time having to fuss with trying to get sustains to at least appear to half ass connect and phrase.
> 
> 4. I am driving the whole mix into a hardware Bricasti M7.
> 
> I really enjoyed this process. I got to become much more familiar with the product but I still have much to learn about it. I was able to have a half ass template completed by simply doing this demo. Overall, I am impressed with how they sound and I know that I can make them even sound better than this if I spend more time but I am out of time as the weekend comes to an end. So many of you have such different levels of training, ears, preference, Studio Setups etc. that it's really endless what you could accomplish using these strings. I don't expect everyone to like what I did here but I sure hope it helps someone other than myself . Let the bashing begin!
> 
> <iframe width="100%" height="275" src="" style="border: none;"></iframe>




I don't want to be mean, but quite honestly it sounds bad because it is all out of time.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> Ask me again when "all the sample content is completed" and the Synchron player is out. I'm willing to give them a chance to improve from where they are now. It's up to VSL in the end to get a competitive product out there.



Did you already buy Synchron Strings ?

From your answer, it seems you don't have too much optimism in Synchron Strings. or at least you don't seem to have that spirit.


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> Did you already buy Synchron Strings ?


That's a strange question, since that was obvious from my first participation in this thread. Maybe you missed that. In any case, I pre-ordered Synchron before it was even available. You're right though, I am not so optimistic. That's because for me Synchron is not living up to certain promises and expectations.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> That's a strange question, since that was obvious from my first participation in this thread. Maybe you missed that. In any case, I pre-ordered Synchron before it was even available. You're right though, I am not so optimistic. That's because for me Synchron is not living up to certain promises and expectations.



Given the length of this thread, I wasn't sure if you ordered/pre-ordered/didn't buy Synchron String, so, thanks for the feedback.

Honestly, I'm also not very impressed with what I'm hearing from Synchron Strings so far.

So, I share this part of the sentiment with you, on the other hand, I'm very optimistic, and have a lot of confidence, that once VSL has all the Sample Content completed, and their new Synchron Player is finalized, and tweaked to perfection, Synchron Strings will sound amazing, It is just a matter of time, and having faith in VSL's efforts. That's where I think we differ, since you don't show the optimism in your posts. At the end of the day, the ball is in VSL's court, they either deliver and impress us, or fail to do so. I feel, and have confidence that they will deliver !


----------



## Michael Antrum

Very early on this mega thread, I said that we should just chill until it is finished. This thread has been yo-yoing from mildly amusing to rather annoying for over 100 pages now. VSL are a quality outfit - how many other developers offer you a 30 day money back policy AND the ability to re-sell you libraries if you no longer want them ? 

Not many is the answer. 
(They really need to sort out the lost dongle policy though - which has kept me from buying into VSL previously.)

However, it's worth pointing out that VSL have rather shot themselves in the foot with some of the claims about the new player - and then it being delayed - very seriously delayed. But we are where we are, and I must admit some of what I have heard does not sound very good at all - but if we could only have the patience to wait until it is finished. 

Then if it still sounds a bit pants we can have this glorious bun fight all over again. 

However, I have a sneaking feeling that, like most of the libraries available, it will have both strengths and weaknesses......


----------



## Eptesicus

OK so i was actually having a mess around doing a Braveheart mock up during the last hour but then i got distracted and ended up with this

With a bit of patience you can make some really nice stuff with these (again this is just violin 1 and cello, i haven't bothered to download the rest yet)

Just ended up playing with the legato (this is mostly lyrical soft with a few slurs here and there)

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-mp3.11538/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Critz

Eptesicus said:


> OK so i was actually having a mess around doing a Braveheart mock up during the last hour but then i got distracted and ended up with this
> 
> With a bit of patience you can make some really nice stuff with these (again this is just violin 1 and cello, i haven't bothered to download the rest yet)
> 
> Just ended up playing with the legato (this is mostly lyrical soft with a few slurs here and there)
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-mp3.11534/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Is it from a Korg or a Kurzweil?


----------



## Eptesicus

Also, the celli in the higher part of their range are absolutely gorgeous sounding and the sections do seem to blend with each other beautifully

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-high-celli-mp3.11535/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Eptesicus

Critz said:


> Is it from a Korg or a Kurzweil?



I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before but now i am pretty sure you are just trolling this thread.


----------



## Celador

Critz said:


> Is it from a Korg or a Kurzweil?



When Guy asked you to leave this thread, I thought it was a little rude. But he was right: You are annoying as hell! Feel free to go there.


----------



## Mousavi

Eptesicus said:


> Also, the celli in the higher part of their range are absolutely gorgeous sounding and the sections do seem to blend with each other beautifully
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-high-celli-mp3.11535/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Shame on the proceedings/development of Synchron Strings :(


----------



## Eptesicus

This thread is weird


----------



## Critz

Eptesicus said:


> I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before but now i am pretty sure you are just trolling this thread.


why? Because I said something bad against a "track" of yours. Listen to this nonsense you posted here. Listen how disconnected those notes sound. Try at least the legato blur before to post something..


----------



## Critz

Mousavi said:


> Shame on the proceedings/development of Synchron Strings :(


What's wrong with you? Seriously..


----------



## Eptesicus

Critz said:


> why? Because I said something bad against a "track" of yours. Listen to this nonsense you posted here. Listen how disconnected those notes sound. Try at least the legato blur before to post something..



I honestly don't know what you are listening to. It doesn't sound disconnected at all : /


----------



## Guy Bacos

Eptesicus said:


> Also, the celli in the higher part of their range are absolutely gorgeous sounding and the sections do seem to blend with each other beautifully
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-high-celli-mp3.11535/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Lovely sound.


----------



## Critz

Eptesicus said:


> Also, the celli in the higher part of their range are absolutely gorgeous sounding and the sections do seem to blend with each other beautifully
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-high-celli-mp3.11535/][/AUDIOPLUS]


This one is far better, don't ask me why..


----------



## Casiquire

Eptesicus said:


> Also, the celli in the higher part of their range are absolutely gorgeous sounding and the sections do seem to blend with each other beautifully
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-high-celli-mp3.11535/][/AUDIOPLUS]



I agree, and the library sounds best when there are a few layers. You get a better sense of the room.


----------



## Mousavi

Symfoniq said:


> Life is absolutely too short, and most of this thread has been a waste of time and angst.
> 
> However, there would be no debate right now if VSL hadn't released an unfinished product. With unfinished articulations and an unfinished sample player, they've practically invited the level of criticism they are receiving.
> 
> I say this as someone who has sunk close to $10K into VSL products: Synchron Strings is a textbook case of how not to bring a new product to market.



I agree with you !


> Synchron Strings is a textbook case of how not to bring a new product to market.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Does anyone know the streaming link for the Westlake Pro event?


----------



## synergy543

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Does anyone know the streaming link for the Westlake Pro event?


You can RSVP for the event and it says they will send you a link.
https://westlakepro.com/events/vsl2018/


----------



## C-Wave

Here is the YouTube video of the VSL presentation:


----------



## novaburst

Watched the live stream very good, a lot to look forward for from VSL, they could have remained the same or stayed where they were but chose to take a new challenge,

This is the true heart of development to offer something new to the music world, 

You get the feel of the huge task many Developers take on, to them its a must mission to us its a delight, truly thankful for people like that.


----------



## meradium

novaburst said:


> Watched the live stream very good, a lot to look forward for from VSL, they could have remained the same or stayed where they were but chose to take a new challenge,
> 
> This is the true heart of development to offer something new to the music world,
> 
> You get the feel of the huge task many Developers take on, to them its a must mission to us its a delight, truly thankful for people like that.



Amaaaazzzzinnng 

Sorry, couldn't resist...


----------



## Tatu

I have nothing to ad to this conversation. I just want to tap myself to back for finally catching the last post, after what seemed like months of trying


----------



## Casiquire

Very nice video! Though I truly have no idea yet how Synchron player works lol


----------



## Simon Ravn

Eptesicus said:


> OK so i was actually having a mess around doing a Braveheart mock up during the last hour but then i got distracted and ended up with this
> 
> With a bit of patience you can make some really nice stuff with these (again this is just violin 1 and cello, i haven't bothered to download the rest yet)
> 
> Just ended up playing with the legato (this is mostly lyrical soft with a few slurs here and there)
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-mp3.11538/][/AUDIOPLUS]



You are kidding - is this supposed to be "nice"? Main problem of dead, lifeless samples remains. Legato is bad too, but that should somewhat be fixable, and will probably improve with updates.

I really don't have anything new to add to my point of view, except that the Synchron player looks like an improvement for workflow/setting up patches etc. But it just can't save the underlying problems.


----------



## novaburst

Casiquire said:


> Very nice video! Though I truly have no idea yet how Synchron player works lol



I was wondering if you can have the Synchron player working and the Instrument at the same time


----------



## Saxer

novaburst said:


> I was wondering if you can have the Synchron player working and the Instrument at the same time


I think so. You can run Vienna Instrument and Vienna Instrument Pro parallel too. Just a different plugin.


----------



## C-Wave

Casiquire said:


> Very nice video! Though I truly have no idea yet how Synchron player works lol


I was disappointed that the cameraman didn’t calibrate the white so the lower half of the GUI looked washed out. Paul should start preparing for demo video of the beta since it’s starting to be stable.
Edit: Did you hear him around min. 34:00 of the video where he didn’t rule out the possibility of incorporating the dry sample libraries into Synchron Player?


----------



## novaburst

Saxer said:


> I think so. You can run Vienna Instrument and Vienna Instrument Pro parallel too. Just a different plugin.



That would be a bonus,


----------



## Guy Bacos

This piece combines synchron strings in a fuller orchestral context.

re-mix process


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> This piece combines synchron strings in a fuller orchestral context.
> 
> Capricious Waltz




I should wait for others to comment. It's clear I can't say my opinion without being invited by Guy to left the conversation.
But I have to say that a lot of the violins attacks sound so unnatural. And also, the sound of these violins are quite piercing, in a bad way. About that last point, I think it's a mix fault.


----------



## Casiquire

I'd agree that the mix is mainly to blame for the harshness in tone. That's been a criticism of mine about the demo-makers for VSL forever. The libraries are extremely easy to shape into a pleasing sound, but nobody tends to actually do that.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> I should wait for others to comment. It's clear I can't say my opinion without being invited by Guy to left the conversation.
> But I have to say that a lot of the violins attacks sound so unnatural. And also, the sound of these violins are quite piercing, in a bad way. About that last point, I think it's a mix fault.



Don't get paranoid Critz, your opinion is perfectly welcome, you didn't understand my point earlier. Oh well.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Guy Bacos said:


> This piece combines synchron strings in a fuller orchestral context.
> 
> Capricious Waltz



The strings are by far the worst sounding group in this demo. It is quite baffling. Something really unnatural about the x-fading as well - weird volume drops/timbre changes and such.

And Guy, you have doing very convincing classical demos with older VSL libraries, where I would be quite impressed and actually think this didn't sound too far from the real thing. But this... nobody would ever mistake these for real string sections.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Hmm, I'll see if I can remix it.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Guy Bacos said:


> This piece combines synchron strings in a fuller orchestral context.
> 
> Capricious Waltz



Wonderful Piece of music, Guy. And that is a demo? Fantastic..And I can hear you put a lot of effort into the mockup.
...
But I better keep my mouth shut regarding what I think how the strings sounds..


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Guy Bacos said:


> Hmm, I'll see if I can remix it.



I don't think you need to do a remix. It sounds great. Some folks are just determined to find fault, even if none exists. Yes SyS has it's own unique sound, that does not mean it is a bad sound. You could post a recording of live strings but say in your post that it is SyS and you would still get complaints.

The composition is really lovely. I never cease to be impressed by your ability. The orchestration is particularly impressive. I really love your use of the woodwinds.


----------



## Critz

Paul T McGraw said:


> I don't think you need to do a remix.


In fact. He needs to reprogram it. Or probably they need to re-record the library.
That's another proof this library can do very few things. I'm using Syn Strings, just yesterday I did a simple jingle using pizzicatos. But it's not a library you can use for everything, because most of the time it sounds non-musical. Unpleasent. Unrealistic.
You have to understand that we don't need a "unique" sound. We need a sound that clients and normal listeners like. Than if it's a distinct sound or not it's secondary.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it, and thanks for the appreciation about the composition, Simon, Alexander, Paul and others.


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


> Can you share a demo of your own that you're happy with? (any strings library)
> 
> I want to know what sound you think is acceptable.


almost whatever demo you can find on Spitfire or Orchestral Tools strings. Many of them are really good, some of them exceptional. 
Of course, demos with strings only reveal some weakness. But today you have the proof that even in a "full orchestral" context Synchron Strings are a problem.


----------



## Cartoon

How can it be that there are many people how like the sound of the Synchron Strings and then there people who really find it the worse of the worst!

I don't get it!

Btw I am one of those who likes it


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


> That's not very specific... Can't you share a track of your own like how Guy did?


What do you want from me exactly? Did you read comments from other users? These strings sound totally unpleasant, even in some of the demos programmed by the main VSL demo programmer.
But don't worry. In 2 months at maximum, Synchron Player will be released and Synchron Strings will sound fantastic!


----------



## Guy Bacos

Cartoon said:


> How can it be that there are many people how like the sound of the Synchron Strings and then there people who really find it the worse of the worst!
> 
> I don't get it!
> 
> Btw I am one of those who likes it



Well, I'm one who really likes it and love the richness of the sound, and I mean this sincerely, nothing synthetic about it, but people have certain expectations, and I understand and respect that, some cannot envision strings without a certain type of vibrato for example, I also appreciate molto vibrato, but somehow for me it doesn't take away anything from the qualities that are there, as I said previously. And the opposite is also true, now when I hear other string libraries, I find the sound thin compared to synchron strings, and find those not sounding like real strings because of that aspect.


----------



## ctsai89

Eptesicus said:


> Also, the celli in the higher part of their range are absolutely gorgeous sounding and the sections do seem to blend with each other beautifully
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-high-celli-mp3.11535/][/AUDIOPLUS]



This seems to sound pretty good on my phone


----------



## novaburst

Paul T McGraw said:


> Some folks are just determined to find fault,



This.


----------



## Guy Bacos

novaburst said:


> This.



Actually, most are respectful, because they express if they like or not, while a few others like Critz will keep making a mockery and being sarcastic for the next 100 pages. Those people I have no respect for. But it's just a few bad apples.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Actually, most are respectful, because they express if they like or not, while a few others like Critz will keep making a mockery and being sarcastic for the next 100 pages. Those people I have no respect for. But it's just a few bad apples.


Yes, something like sample libraries and demos. Most companies are smart, doing great demos to promote their libraries, with top programming and top mixes, so that they can show the 110% possibilities of the product. Few others like VSL don't care, and they keep doing questionable demos and mixes.


----------



## Saxer

Guy Bacos said:


> Actually, most are respectful, because they express if they like or not, while a few others like Critz will keep making a mockery and being sarcastic for the next 100 pages. Those people I have no respect for. But it's just a few bad apples.


Yepp, Critz isn't really famous for his helpful comments or musical output.
https://vi-control.net/community/search/5385460/


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Trolls will be trolls.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> Yes, something like sample libraries and demos. Most companies are smart, doing great demos to promote their libraries, with top programming and top mixes, so that they can show the 110% possibilities of the product. Few others like VSL don't care, and they keep doing questionable demos and mixes.



Once someone told me, always look at the source of the comment....


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> 2 months at maximum, Synchron Player will be released and Synchron Strings will sound fantastic!



I think the Synchron player will be great for work flow only, 

If you can't make these buetiful strings sound nice right now with what tools we have you will never be able to make them sound great what ever player is thrown at you.

These strings are specail if you don't understand that you never will, and it perhaps is better to stick with what works for you, stick with what you know.

The sections for the 2nd violins and violas will soon be complete but and you will get your completed sections but they are not stopping anyone from making these strings sound great, niether the missing new player so let's not kid our self.


----------



## Critz

novaburst said:


> I think the Synchron player will be great for work flow only,
> 
> If you can't make these buetiful strings sound nice right now with what tools we have you will never be able to make them sound great what ever player is thrown at you.
> 
> These strings are specail if you don't understand that you never will, and it perhaps is better to stick with what works for you, stick with what you know.
> 
> The sections for the 2nd violins and violas will soon be complete but and you will get your completed sections but they are not stopping anyone from making these strings sound great, niether the missing new player so let's not kid our self.


Are you from England?  
I was sarcastic..


----------



## Guy Bacos

Saxer said:


> Yepp, Critz isn't really famous for his helpful comments or musical output.
> https://vi-control.net/community/search/5385460/



Says: ERROR


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> Are you from England?
> I was sarcastic..



Yes I am from UK London, your self @Critz where are you from if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Guy Bacos said:


> Says: ERROR



I think that is because a search for any music posted by Critz shows nothing ever posted. Meaning he could just be a troll. 

I wish we all just used our real names. @mverta (Mike Verta) does that on his RedBanned.com forum. If we all used our real names I think it would foster a more congenial group, with fewer insults and better manners. It would also make it easy to pick out who the actual musicians are, and who are the pretenders. 

Anyone who listens to your output @Guy Bacos (which can be easily found on the internet) knows you are talented and you know how to handle virtual instruments. As a result, I place great trust in your opinion.


----------



## Eptesicus

ctsai89 said:


> This seems to sound pretty good on my phone



It does, and these are only little plays with it but i think it has potential.

It certainly doesn't live up to my expectations as of yet but the tone and overall sound is good, especially the celli (and especially in the high registers - somewhere other libraries have disappointed me).

I'm really not putting much time into learning how to use it properly or doing much with it yet until the rest of the sections are finished and the actual proper player for it is out.

Do i think it will be the best thing ever once it is fully released with the Synchron player? No. However i certainly think it will be usable and that some good stuff could be done with it once it is fully released and a bit more polished.

This is a bit of a flagship product for them so I don't think they will be abandoning it and hopefully will be doing everything they can to make it better through the coming year.


----------



## novaburst

Paul T McGraw said:


> I wish we all just used our real names



Oh noooooooo please you must not do that @Paul T McGraw please I can not do that, I must not, you see I am...........

To the BAT MOBILE I am needed


----------



## Saxer

Paul T McGraw said:


> I wish we all just used our real names. @mverta (Mike Verta) does that on his RedBanned.com forum. If we all used our real names I think it would foster a more congenial group, with fewer insults and better manners. It would also make it easy to pick out who the actual musicians are, and who are the pretenders.


I'm actually not a friend of real names in a forum. Beside musical and technical exchange this is also a kind of regulars table for small talk, jokes etc. If somebody googles my real name I don't want them to find decades old chrackerbarrell stories or discussions about problems that could get in the way of a professional impression. Or discussions like this one. Everything written here is tagged by Google & co.


----------



## Saxer

Guy Bacos said:


> Says: ERROR


Nothing important... it just shows the result of the forums search function if you insert "Critz" into the "Posted by Member" field.


----------



## Erik

Simon Ravn said:


> The strings are by far the worst sounding group in this demo. It is quite baffling. Something really unnatural about the x-fading as well - weird volume drops/timbre changes and such.
> 
> And Guy, you have doing very convincing classical demos with older VSL libraries, where I would be quite impressed and actually think this didn't sound too far from the real thing. But this... nobody would ever mistake these for real string sections.


How unrespectful. To Guy as well as the producers.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> Yes, something like sample libraries and demos. Most companies are smart, doing great demos to promote their libraries, with top programming and top mixes, so that they can show the 110% possibilities of the product. Few others like VSL don't care, and they keep doing questionable demos and mixes.



Here you go:

[email protected]


----------



## Casiquire

Apologies if anything I said came across as disrespectful earlier. To be clear, I did not intend to make a statement on the composition which I agree was really great to listen to, or on Synchron Strings, whose sound I am generally very pleased with. My intention was just to point out that many of VSL's demos (and I am not referring specifically to Guy, but overall) tend to try to highlight the clarity of the libraries and in so doing often end up sounding harsh. I hear it often with dry libraries. I never wish to influence anybody else's musical output so Guy if you're happy with the great work you've done, that's all that matters. I'd suggest taking most criticisms of your work as it relates to this particular library with a grain of salt until things settle down a bit. Or until particular people find their next library to target


----------



## Guy Bacos

Remix: Capricious Waltz


----------



## Guy Bacos

Casiquire said:


> Apologies if anything I said came across as disrespectful earlier. To be clear, I did not intend to make a statement on the composition which I agree was really great to listen to, or on Synchron Strings, whose sound I am generally very pleased with. My intention was just to point out that many of VSL's demos (and I am not referring specifically to Guy, but overall) tend to try to highlight the clarity of the libraries and in so doing often end up sounding harsh. I hear it often with dry libraries. I never wish to influence anybody else's musical output so Guy if you're happy with the great work you've done, that's all that matters. I'd suggest taking most criticisms of your work as it relates to this particular library with a grain of salt until things settle down a bit. Or until particular people find their next library to target



It's all good, no worry. It's nothing new, I'm use to it, been there 1000 times, survived them all. When you stick your neck out as often as I do, you become an easy target sometimes.


----------



## Saxer

Guy Bacos said:


> Remix: Capricious Waltz


Really great composition, orchestration, and mockup! I prefer the new mix.


----------



## C-Wave

Guy Bacos said:


> It's all good, no worry. It's nothing new, I'm use to it, been there 1000 times, survived them all. When you stick out your neck as often as I do, you become an easy target sometimes.


Guy.. am I going to like every one of your posts? Can you please post something I don’t like  starting to feel fake.. nah! keep them coming.


----------



## C-Wave

Interesting Namm report from Mike Greene (vi-control).. really liked the VSL part, a must read for this forum.
https://vi-control.net/community/th...e-greene-2018-namm-report.68683/#post-4185632


----------



## novaburst

Guy Bacos said:


> Remix: Capricious Waltz
> 
> (Will post another updated mix soon, however, this is already an improvement I think.)



Certainly wow, that was a great story, with a great ending.

Did you write this @Guy Bacos , or did you pull out some sheet music.

Either way still a great story and feel, and with out being silly, the strings carried the whole piece, woodwinds nice co star.

Just love it.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Guy Bacos said:


> Remix: Capricious Waltz
> 
> (Will post another updated mix soon, however, this is already an improvement I think.)



You did succeed in improving the mix. Sounds awesome. I would love to see a "how I did it" video on your process for mixing SyS (a rather wet library) with the VSL woodwinds and brass (very dry). Obviously you are using MIR Pro Synchron Stage, but the balance is very convincing between strings, winds and brass. I think I would have pushed the winds back just a bit more and perhaps brought the brass a bit more forward, but now I am just nitpicking. 

What I (and probably others) really need from Vienna Instruments are tutorials (preferably videos) explaining how to get the most out of these libraries.


----------



## Guy Bacos

novaburst said:


> Certainly wow, that was a great story, with a great ending.
> 
> Did you write this @Guy Bacos , or did you pull out some sheet music.
> 
> Either way still a great story and feel, and with out being silly, the strings carried the whole piece, woodwinds nice co star.
> 
> Just love it.



Thanks! Yes, wrote it. First wrote it as a piano score 4 hands, then orchestrated it.


----------



## Casiquire

Wow, the new mix really does improve on it. And thanks for being a class act!


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Paul T McGraw said:


> I think that is because a search for any music posted by Critz shows nothing ever posted. Meaning he could just be a troll.
> 
> I wish we all just used our real names. @mverta (Mike Verta) does that on his RedBanned.com forum. If we all used our real names I think it would foster a more congenial group, with fewer insults and better manners. It would also make it easy to pick out who the actual musicians are, and who are the pretenders.
> 
> Anyone who listens to your output @Guy Bacos (which can be easily found on the internet) knows you are talented and you know how to handle virtual instruments. As a result, I place great trust in your opinion.



That is a noble thinking for sure. I like that too, though some people don´t like to use their real names as Saxer mentioned too.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

@Guy Bacos I like the new mix better. Provides more details in the strings rendering.


----------



## Guy Bacos

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> @Guy Bacos I like the new mix better. Provides more details in the strings rendering.



ThankS, I updated the link since, this one has the close mic a bit louder, just to see how that works.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Guy Bacos said:


> ThankS, I updated the link since, this one has the close mic a bit louder, just to see how that works.



The Z Depth works better for me with that when the strings have more close mic impressions. Thats good.


----------



## synergy543

Excellent composition Guy and I think the new mix sounds great as well. There's a lot of work in there when you listen carefully and I enjoy it more each time I hear it.


----------



## Cartoon

I found this link on then Synchron Stage Instagram page


----------



## bvaughn0402




----------



## EgM

Guy Bacos said:


> Remix: Capricious Waltz
> 
> (Will post another updated mix soon, however, this is already an improvement I think.)



Awesome work Guy!


----------



## stigc56

Critz said:


> In fact. He needs to reprogram it. Or probably they need to re-record the library.
> That's another proof this library can do very few things. I'm using Syn Strings, just yesterday I did a simple jingle using pizzicatos. But it's not a library you can use for everything, because most of the time it sounds non-musical. Unpleasent. Unrealistic.
> You have to understand that we don't need a "unique" sound. We need a sound that clients and normal listeners like. Than if it's a distinct sound or not it's secondary.


I hate to be referenced to by this “we”, couldn`t you keep it simple and use I?


----------



## SGordB

Critz said:


> This one is far better, don't ask me why..


(Korg development team.)


----------



## SGordB

Simon Ravn said:


> The strings are by far the worst sounding group in this demo. It is quite baffling. Something really unnatural about the x-fading as well - weird volume drops/timbre changes and such.
> 
> And Guy, you have doing very convincing classical demos with older VSL libraries, where I would be quite impressed and actually think this didn't sound too far from the real thing. But this... nobody would ever mistake these for real string sections.



I would. It sounds like a very bright, lively, "present" recording or live performance - in a good way, if occasionally on the shrill side - to me, and I've listened to thousands of hours of real orchestral music. But that's me listening to the music rather than the samples. I do agree that a masterful MIDI composer/orchestrator like Guy can make stunning music with any of the VSL orchestral iterations, which is why, in a paradoxical way, this whole exercise in Synchron analyzing/bashing has made me delve deeper into the musical wealth of the VSL SE-only libraries I already have. When this thread began, I had owned VSL SE1 and Solo Strings for a few months. As this thread progressed, I picked up a "pre-owned" SE Complete bundle. I couldn't be a happier camper.


----------



## SGordB

Guy Bacos said:


> Remix: Capricious Waltz
> 
> (Will post another updated mix soon, however, this is already an improvement I think.)


I actually prefer the first mix! If I had only heard the second, I would also think it's great, but having heard the first - and now A/Bing the two (at least the first minute plus) to confirm my impressions - the new mix seems to "sweeten" the violins in a way that - to my sensibilities - dissipates the musically important bite and liveliness they had in the original mix. They've been "tamed."


----------



## Guy Bacos

Just so there's no confusion, the original mix was replaced by the updated mix, so unless you downloaded it, you wouldn't be able to compare anymore. On the new mix, I tamed some frequencies, especially the highs on the violins which I had EQed too high and with the violins often playing in the higher register, this may have given some harshness. Also removed undesired frequencies to make it cleaner, and increased the close mic vol a bit, but it may still come down to personal preferences.


----------



## SGordB

Guy Bacos said:


> Just so there's no confusion, the original mix was replaced by the updated mix, so unless you downloaded it, you wouldn't be able to compare anymore. On the new mix, I tamed some frequencies, especially the highs on the violins which I had EQed too high and with the violins often playing in the higher register, this may have given some harshness. Also removed undesired frequencies to make it cleaner, and increased the close mic vol a bit, but it may still come down to personal preferences.


Wow. What a lesson in self-delusion. I was catching up on the thread this afternoon after missing it for a week or so, listened to someone else's embedded link (i.e. quoting your original post) of your (so I assumed) original mix, then listened to the "new" one expecting to like it more and surprised it sounded like it had the juice squeezed out of its violins. So I ABed it with my still open tab of "the original" (which I do indeed now see links to the same URL). For reference, I have often thought super hi-def audio sounds better than 16/44.1 versions of the same track ... and just about as often failed to tell the difference.


----------



## jamwerks

omiroad said:


> Can you share a demo of your own that you're happy with? (any strings library)
> 
> I want to know what sound you think is acceptable.


Berlin Strings sounds very close to SCS, SSS, CSS, CineStrings, Century, even HS! Sychron StrinSt does sounds very different to my ears.


----------



## novaburst

SGordB said:


> Wow. What a lesson in self-delusion.



And before i start deluding my self, Anyone who has Orchestral Strings, SE Strings, and SE Brass
Are you finding that the new blur function in the instrument play is making any difference to the legato function.
in these librarys.

Or is there know effect on these older librarys.


----------



## Casiquire

SGordB said:


> Wow. What a lesson in self-delusion. I was catching up on the thread this afternoon after missing it for a week or so, listened to someone else's embedded link (i.e. quoting your original post) of your (so I assumed) original mix, then listened to the "new" one expecting to like it more and surprised it sounded like it had the juice squeezed out of its violins. So I ABed it with my still open tab of "the original" (which I do indeed now see links to the same URL). For reference, I have often thought super hi-def audio sounds better than 16/44.1 versions of the same track ... and just about as often failed to tell the difference.



Isn't music wonderful? Haha. We've all done this, admit it!


----------



## SGordB

Casiquire said:


> Isn't music wonderful? Haha. We've all done this, admit it!


Ah, the milk of human kindness  Or pity. Either way, I'll take it.


----------



## Casiquire

SGordB said:


> Ah, the milk of human kindness  Or pity. Either way, I'll take it.



Just truth. A youtuber, forgive me for forgetting who, even talked about a producer he knew who had a button in his studio that did nothing at all. When clients would ask him to do something he knew was actually detrimental to the mix, he would hit the button, they would say "That sounds much better!" and then everyone would move on


----------



## Guy Bacos

Ha! Placebo button.


----------



## mikeh-375

Casiquire said:


> Just truth. A youtuber, forgive me for forgetting who, even talked about a producer he knew who had a button in his studio that did nothing at all. When clients would ask him to do something he knew was actually detrimental to the mix, he would hit the button, they would say "That sounds much better!" and then everyone would move on



Yep, I use to work in a studio in London and we actually built a 1u rack with some button lights in it. Always worked a treat when the client suggested something idiotic... A CA mark 1 (client appeaser). I have to relate this too...a true story, I was there, so forgive the quick digression....
Client- "could you turn that sound down at 15" what is it, a snare drum or an oboe or something"......?!!
and in the same session...
Client, "that instrument is too prominent, can we get rid of it?
Me, to engineer..."Let's take it down an octave" (it was a midi track)
Producer (name with-held)- "what, as much as an octave?"

No disrespect to any one here, but I too am yet to be convinced by Synchron. I mentioned about 5000 pages back that the pizz. demo in the early pages was great and still stand by that, however the sustains do not have the right timbre for my ears, from what I have heard, but said ears will remain open and receptive to the product in a 'wait and see' mode, because we need as many dynamic layers as possible to make good, convincing music.


----------



## solomon.kim

novaburst said:


> And before i start deluding my self, Anyone who has Orchestral Strings, SE Strings, and SE Brass
> Are you finding that the new blur function in the instrument play is making any difference to the legato function.
> in these librarys.
> 
> Or is there know effect on these older librarys.



I personally don't hear any difference on SE Strings (vol. 1).


----------



## novaburst

mikeh-375 said:


> because we need as many dynamic layers as possible to make good, convincing music.



Dynamic layers do help but I don't believe you need so much to make convincing music please relax and have a listen to this you will find its very convincing. this I believe is from about 8 years ago, I am not sure if there was more than 4 dynamic layers here, but the composers knowledge and skill with orchestral music was able to do this convincing demo. 



mikeh-375 said:


> ears will remain open and receptive to the product in a 'wait and see' mode



SyS are a different breed you either like them or you don't, you will be waiting a very long time,

With any library, you just need to knuckle down to work and make music and get to know you tools


----------



## novaburst

solomon.kim said:


> I personally don't hear any difference on SE Strings (vol. 1).



Haha yes I thought as much it seems to bypass other librarys and seems to only work with SyS


----------



## mikeh-375

I'm well chilled thanks novaburst  and I do actually own virtually everything by VSL, so I am well versed in what can be done, honest, but I am also well versed in what can't be done, which is why I think more dynamic layers are needed across the board. I suppose though it depends on what music you want to write. For me, it is concert music these days and to have a wide range of true dynamics from say ppp to ff, would be very helpful when creating a mock-up. (although I suspect film scorers will want this too).
This is why I will keep an ear on Synchron..my ears will decide in good time and will not be waiting a long time...I can adapt you know.


----------



## Critz

you can ave even 16 velocity layers, but if who choose samples doesn't choose the right ones, it ends that you can't appreciate the plus factor you would expect from such a large number of velocity layers.
Let's talk about the Synchron Celesta. Very useful instrument for several reason, I really like it. But 16 velocity layers? I think that 8 would to the exactly same job.


----------



## mikeh-375

Agreed Critz, fortunately I know what I'm doing. 7 or 8 layers would do the job. The pizz. demo I mentioned earlier was brilliant precisely because of the dynamic range which also nicely reflected the timbral distinctions.
As to that celesta, it depends on how good a player you are imo.


----------



## novaburst

mikeh-375 said:


> and I do actually own virtually everything by VSL,



Can we swap life's  you have almost all of VSL, that's good, if you have Dimension strings I am sure that can meet your needs for concert music.

I have listen to quite a few muckups with SyS and are some of the best muckups out there amongst other string librarys, what baffles me is that the other string library's have been completed in development and have been used and talked about for a few years now but the muckups in IMHO have not superseded SyS an incomplete library and still waiting for key elements for its completion

The big message that I have received from all this is if you want to do it there is not much that can stop you even an incomplete library.

2 we all seem to rely on what features that are just not there before we can use it to work with when this has been proven wrong time after time by some great muckups that have already been presented before us.

3 You need quite a bit of skill level to work string library's if you don't have them its going to be a down hill ride for you, learning about orchestra can really help, learning the library goes along way too, and learning how to apply the skills, again this has been proven time and time again and yes I will mention his name @Guy Bacos just keeps knocking out mind blowing muckups in the face of huge criticism of the SyS library.

4 the story here is its us or we that have a lot to do with how any library is going to sound, the common word is wow that library sounds great, but what the compliment should be is wow you made that library sound great with the time and skill used.


Making music is simple, making great music is hard work.


----------



## mikeh-375

Don't be too sure about my needs for concert music, I try not to be limited on the manuscript to what I have in my computer, because that'd be too much of a restriction, especially when it comes to strings and the potential pallette available in real life. (But yes, DS are pretty good).
I'd have thought it self-evident that to get the best out of any library, you need to know what you are doing, many of us here do and if some are not convinced, it'll be down to aesthetic subjectivity that's all (and perhaps disappointment in technical problems). There is room for all opinions in music right?
Our little chat seems to have become another springboard for you and so to clarify, Mr. Bacos' "mind blowing muckups" (lol..that potentially means something else in England, try mock-ups as I don't think you are helping your cause) are not the issue for me, just the sound at present (which I might get used to with more production and familiarity) but more so, its 'performance' on playback - which as you suggest, is also down to the users skill or lack thereof.
It is disappointing for me, because as I have said, the generosity in dynamic layers is surely the right way forward..... we are on the same side I think, but just disagreeing...a little.


----------



## SGordB

novaburst said:


> And before i start deluding my self, Anyone who has Orchestral Strings, SE Strings, and SE Brass
> Are you finding that the new blur function in the instrument play is making any difference to the legato function.
> in these librarys.
> 
> Or is there know effect on these older librarys.



Coincidentally, I just installed the VI Pro demo for the first time last night, and - unless my ears deceive me_ (cough)_ - the blur has a noticeable effect on at least some of the SE patches I've tried it on so far. Most notably, playing strings in polyphonic legato, blurring seems to ... blur ... away much/most of the jerkiness/bumpiness in the transitions. But why just talk when we can potentially embarrass ourselves by ABing a demo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/svc2bk7k3qmrosy/VSL solo strings legato blur.mp3?dl=0 I improvised a polyphonic legato passage using the basic SE solo viola pLeg patch and doubled it an octave higher on the SE violin's pLeg. Then I duplicated the whole thing. One of them has blur on full; the other has it on empty. I have to admit, sometimes the difference seems obvious to me, sometimes not so much.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Just for the fun of it, I'm posting the original piano version. Not 100% the same, some minor changes came along the way.

Capricious Waltz (original piano version)


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> you can ave even 16 velocity layers, but if who choose samples doesn't choose the right ones, it ends that you can't appreciate the plus factor you would expect from such a large number of velocity layers.
> Let's talk about the Synchron Celesta. Very useful instrument for several reason, I really like it. But 16 velocity layers? I think that 8 would to the exactly same job.



I think jasper blunks libraries have less than 4 and they sound realistic. Seriously 16 layers was a bit uselsss effort


----------



## novaburst

SGordB said:


> I have to admit, sometimes the difference seems obvious to me, sometimes not so much.



I wonder if it was meant to be used with other library's other than the SyS .

And not optimized for the for the existing library's,


----------



## SGordB

novaburst said:


> I wonder if it was meant to be used with other library's other than the SyS .
> 
> And not optimized for the for the existing library's,



There's an ambiguous thread on the VSL forum suggesting it's available for all libs, but not exactly definitively. I had no idea until this afternoon when troubleshooting why the remote app wasn't working with my VI nonpro plugins - having learned the day before that it should (always thought it was a Pro feature) - that LBlur is also available in the nonpro version of VI - latest update. (That's why I thought it mattered to mention earlier that I'd just installed VI Pro.) As for the remote not working, I've now noticed that the URL to control the nonpro version is just a digit different from the pro URL. 

So it sounds like people aren't hearing a difference between the A and B in my audio file, in which case my golden ears may be the only ones subject to the perception/illusion that one sounds a little sweeter/smoother than the other.


----------



## SGordB

.. still, the more I mess with LBlur on my nonSyS libs (I don't have SyS), the more at a loss I am to hear any persistent differences. I had the impression from one or another of the comments on the VSL forum that LBlur is meant to be tweaked in some way regarding the underlying parameters that's over my head for now. There's probably some documentation I should look for if I want to pursue this any further.

Ah, here it is (from Paul Kopf on the VSL forum: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/m268744findlastpost-Introducing-Legato-Blur#post269007):

"Legato BLUR scales the P.Rel value set in the Slot Editor.

"Legato Blur 0= same value as P.Rel in the Slot Editor. 
"Legato Blur 127= double the value as P.Rel in the Slot Editor."

(Apologies if I'm explaining what most folks here already know.) Using non-SyS legato patches, even if I lower P.Rel to 0, LBlur isn't making a noticeable difference. But then P.Rel makes no audible difference to me either.


----------



## Casiquire

Synchron Celeste has sixteen velocity layers?

Suddenly I'm interested!


----------



## Critz

Casiquire said:


> Synchron Celeste has sixteen velocity layers?
> 
> Suddenly I'm interested!


Actually I was wrong. I checked the website and they are 36 velocity layers..

VSL - Synchron Mallets info


----------



## Casiquire

As a celeste lover, that sounds wonderful


----------



## muziksculp

ctsai89 said:


> I think jasper blunks libraries have less than 4 and they sound realistic. Seriously 16 layers was a bit uselsss effort



imho. the more layers are very welcome, and very helpful to obtain very dynamic, and realistic short articulations. 4 dynamic layers will not be able to pull the same detail out.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> imho. the more layers are very welcome, and very helpful to obtain very dynamic, and realistic short articulations. 4 dynamic layers will not be able to pull the same detail out.



I agree. Leave it to Critz to try to make a huge amount of velocity layers for a percussion instrument sound like a bad thing lol. Another point in favor of those who say Critz is trolling.


----------



## muziksculp

@Critz and @ctsai89 are still actively posting on this thread, they must be (secretly) in love with Synchron Strings.


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> @Critz and @ctsai89 are still actively posting on this thread, they must be (secretly) in love with Synchron Strings.



Eventually they will get the Vienna Super Package.


----------



## muziksculp

holywilly said:


> Eventually they will get the Vienna Super Package.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Guy Bacos said:


> Remix: Capricious Waltz



Just a reminder, the demo was done without legato patches for 2nd violins and violas. I imagine we'll see them soon, or one of the 2, and I could update it once more for the legato passages. But just something to keep in mind.


----------



## Casiquire

Guy Bacos said:


> Just a reminder, the demo was done without legato patches for 2nd violins and violas. I imagine we'll see them soon, or one of the 2, and I could update it once more for the legato passages.



I'd actually really like that


----------



## Mousavi

@Critz and @ctsai89 are still actively posting on this thread, they must be (secretly) in love with Synchron Strings.
muziksculp said...


----------



## Critz

Casiquire said:


> I agree. Leave it to Critz to try to make a huge amount of velocity layers for a percussion instrument sound like a bad thing lol. Another point in favor of those who say Critz is trolling.


You have something wrong going inside your mind, let me tell you that. I didn't say such a thing. I said that a large amount of velocity layers doesn't mean a great instrument per se. I said Syn Celesta is a very useful instrument. The best feature of Syn Celesta is the very low noise floor, differentely from all othet libraries. But when it comes to timbre, I prefer Berlin Celesta. That becomes even more obvious with the Xylophone. Syn Xylophone is not very nice sounding, not to mention the sound of the two different kind of mallets it's almost the same! Try it if you don't believe me.
Do you know how many Gbs are Synchron Mallets standard? 75 gbs. For 3 instrument: celesta, xylophone and crotales. 
Here's what is sure when you have so many velocity layers: a lot of memory needed.
Does Synchron Mallets sounds good? Yes. Is synchrom Mallets useful? Yes. Does it worth 74 Gbs (140 for all mics)? I'd say no.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Why are we talking about the very low noise floor of syn celesta?


----------



## FriFlo

Critz has a point here. The Synchron Series seems to be on the path of trying to overcome all competition by size, data and other specs. One thing is the hall and the recording techniques, which makes it its own thing. The other is those crazy amounts of dynamic layers etc. Well, a library does have to sound good, offer ways to sound realistic etc, but it also has to be usable! And everything that makes it a CPU or RAM hog has to really show in its quality to justify that need for computer resources! I do like it that VSL is trying to break some boundaries here, yet I am not sure those dynamic layers do always justify the recourses spent. It would be good to at least offer some reduced patches to allow users to load a template on one PC. I couldn't think of many occasions where one could hear the difference of 26 velocity layers of a Celeste, except for solo passages. So, it is great to have those, if I would have to do the Harry Potter thing one day, but for 99% of the other occasions, I would like one with a more modest footprint.


----------



## muziksculp

FriFlo said:


> Critz has a point here. The Synchron Series seems to be on the path of trying to overcome all competition by size, data and other specs. One thing is the hall and the recording techniques, which makes it its own thing. The other is those crazy amounts of dynamic layers etc. Well, a library does have to sound good, offer ways to sound realistic etc, but it also has to be usable! And everything that makes it a CPU or RAM hog has to really show in its quality to justify that need for computer resources! I do like it that VSL is trying to break some boundaries here, yet I am not sure those dynamic layers do always justify the recourses spent. It would be good to at least offer some reduced patches to allow users to load a template on one PC. I couldn't think of many occasions where one could hear the difference of 26 velocity layers of a Celeste, except for solo passages. So, it is great to have those, if I would have to do the Harry Potter thing one day, but for 99% of the other occasions, I would like one with a more modest footprint.



You can always use their Speical Editions, for low CPU and RAM utilization, and put them in the MIR Pro Synchron Venue, Mission Accomplished !


----------



## romantic

FriFlo said:


> Critz has a point here. The Synchron Series seems to be on the path of trying to overcome all competition by size, data and other specs. One thing is the hall and the recording techniques, which makes it its own thing. The other is those crazy amounts of dynamic layers etc. Well, a library does have to sound good, offer ways to sound realistic etc, but it also has to be usable! And everything that makes it a CPU or RAM hog has to really show in its quality to justify that need for computer resources! I do like it that VSL is trying to break some boundaries here, yet I am not sure those dynamic layers do always justify the recourses spent. It would be good to at least offer some reduced patches to allow users to load a template on one PC. I couldn't think of many occasions where one could hear the difference of 26 velocity layers of a Celeste, except for solo passages. So, it is great to have those, if I would have to do the Harry Potter thing one day, but for 99% of the other occasions, I would like one with a more modest footprint.


Already now there are mix-downs of microphone options, a reduced set of velocity layers and other tools for reducing memory and CPU load. And this is especially something where I am convinced that Synchron Player is going to do even more!
I really like the philosophy from VSL of extending what is possible. When MIR came out it required a super workstation, now it runs on a standard laptop, same for other libraries. But the idea of having maximum possibilities for every instrument is great!
Coming back to synchron strings: Just look at the "harsh" layer! I am pretty shure that I will not use it very often, but from time to time it is really great to have it!


----------



## Guy Bacos

I can't speak for everybody but for me have many velocity layers makes a bit difference to my ears. Although one might not appreciate this if always focussing on the cons rather than the pros and cons.


----------



## Casiquire

Not sure how I have something wrong with my mind for making a simple observation, but you did indeed talk about the velocity layers like they were a bad thing, even in the same post where you were telling me you never said that you concluded with saying the velocity layers aren't worth the space. I disagree.

Let's not forget that VSL is the same company with a piano that has over a hundred dynamic layers.


----------



## Critz

Casiquire said:


> Not sure how I have something wrong with my mind for making a simple observation, but you did indeed talk about the velocity layers like they were a bad thing, even in the same post where you were telling me you never said that you concluded with saying the velocity layers aren't worth the space. I disagree.
> 
> Let's not forget that VSL is the same company with a piano that has over a hundred dynamic layers.


Exactly, and I have it. I love it, it's often useful or just perfect. Still, most of the time I have to rely to other piano libraries, simply because the sound is "better". One thing are velocity layers, another thing is sound. 
The importance of velocity layers' number depends on the instrument sampled. Strings should really benefit from a bigger number, still, I'm not sure VSL chose the right samples to represent the whole dynamic range very well. Personally I was hoping for even softer short articulations (pizzicato, shorts). So as I was hoping for a real fff on sforzatissimi, and sustained notes (fff means usually also a very intense vibrato..but you know.. molto vibrato looks forbidden in the Viennese school).

To make a long story short: more velocity layers are welcome, but I want to clearly hear the difference of 8 vs 4, 36 vs 3, otherwise it's a wast of memory.


----------



## Guy Bacos

The velocity range is wide, I love that, I love when you want to play pianissimo you get a real pp velocity and not one that is volume based. The same for ff. Now because of these more extreme velocities, it is possible that it may be more delicate to find the right balance, we are less use to this.

About Critz comment, sound vs velocity layers, sound is also beautiful because of the velocity contrast between a series of notes and the more subtle that is, the more appealing it is to the ear. If you cannot hear this, I don't know what to tell you, sorry u can't appreciate this and don't profit from that aspect, no matter what instrument it is. VSL doesn't aim epic or commercial genres only, it aims for a wide range of styles in which subtle nuances makes a big difference. If your references are what you consider what everybody needs, you are mistaken. No library will please everybody and this one obviously doesn't please you, but that's what it is.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> The velocity range is wide, I love that, I love when you want to play pianissimo you get a real pp velocity and not one that is volume based. The same for ff. Now because of these more extreme velocities, it is possible that it may be more delicate to find the right balance, we are less use to this.
> 
> About Critz comment, sound vs velocity layers, sound is also beautiful because of the velocity contrast between a series of notes and the more subtle that is, the more appealing it is to the ear. If you cannot hear this, I don't know what to tell you, sorry u can't appreciate this and don't profit from that aspect. VSL doesn't not aim epic genre only, it aims for a wide range of styles in which subtle nuances makes a big difference. If your references are what you consider what everybody needs, you are wrong.


You are just speaking "theoretically", or at least you are just speaking for yourself, as I speak for myself.
Sorry but you failed trying to make me feel "differently abled" concerning my hearing or taste.
Soft sustain are pretty well achieved by Syn Strings, no doubt. But to me, if I raise the velocity fade from 0 to 127, I don't see a real difference from previous VSL product with 4 dynamics. To me those strings don't benefit by the larger number of layers concerning sustained articulations, not even close how they should.

In my opinion, choosing less layers carefully and working with programming, it's more important than just have more layers. The timbre of a sustained note on a strings instrument doesn't change that much according to the dynamic, from mp to ff (before you insult me, I mean it change much less than in brass or even woodwinds).
Players should have done more than just "play louder" during sampling sessions. I'm sure that if the vibrato intensity and intonation changed according to the dynamic, now we would talk about a much more musical library. Instead a lot of users, not just me, complain a lack of musicality, not matter the 8 velocity layers.


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## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> You are just speaking "theoretically", or at least you are just speaking for yourself, as I speak for myself.
> Sorry but you failed trying to make me feel "differently abled" concerning my hearing or taste.
> Soft sustain are pretty well achieved by Syn Strings, no doubt. But to me, if I raise the velocity fade from 0 to 127, I don't see a real difference from previous VSL product with 4 dynamics. To me those strings don't benefit by the larger number of layers concerning sustained articulations, not even close how they should.



Are you referring to FULLY dynamics matrice? This matrice is more limited in velocities. I always use the soft, medium or strong matrice and profit for maximum velocity effect for each of them, and I love this. When comparing each one, there is a huge difference in timbre, I could go more in details about the timbre difference when switching from one to the other, but maybe you are not hearing this, don't know what to tell you, and I hope this isn't an insult.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> First of all, are you referring to FULLY dynamics matrice? This matrice is more limited in velocities. I always use the soft, medium or strong matrice and profit for maximum velocity effect for each of them. When comparing each one, there is a huge difference in timbre, I could go more in details about the timbre difference when switching from one to the other, but maybe you are not hearing this, don't know what to tell you, and I hope this isn't an insult.


Yes, I know about the 4 different matrices. A really smart idea from VSL. I'm a bit curious if that comes during the study of the project or if that happened while actually working with samples, but still smart and useful. Nonetheless, I need the full dynamic matrice. And it should still work, because even if it's true that that matrice blanks out 2 dynamic layers, the softer and the louder are still available. So it's pointless..


----------



## Guy Bacos

I look at it differently, I fear repeating myself, but what I really appreciate is the velocity range for the _soft, medium and strong_ matrices, and I guess I just try to take advantage of what synchron offers to make the most of it. I would think that is the best approach even though they offer alternative options.


----------



## Casiquire

Just in the demos on VSL's site I can hear the huge dynamic range. I love it!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

It's an absolutely ridiculous "discussion" at this point. Especially now that the topic of the many velocity layers has been dragged in by the head and shoulders. All I can say is that if you don't hear or struggle to see the benefit of the wealth of velocity layers, perhaps you just simply don't really need a string library to be able to do anything more than playing single line melodies from Jurassic Park.


----------



## syrinx

I'm really interested in Synchron Strings, but I feel like I want to listen a bit to more demos. Is there any made by users here yet? I already listened to the official VSL ones a few times and find them okay, but I find there is a charm in listening to demos made by users.

Maybe I missed some post with a demo in this thread but I'm not feeling like combing through 112 pages of trolling in hope of one, unless (!) someone can assure me that there actually is one or two buried somewhere in the abomination that is this thread.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Guy Bacos said:


> I can't speak for everybody but for me have many velocity layers makes a bit difference to my ears. Although one might not appreciate this if always focussing on the cons rather than the pros and cons.



I don't agree that more velocity layers than 5-6 tops for sustained strings is even a pro. I would say it is more likely to be a con to do 8-10 layers.

Usually, you want to be able to x-fade between the dynamics when writing string phrases. And if you record two or three layers that are rather close to each other dynamically speaking, you are more likely to run into problems like slight intonation/timbre variations that will make it sound odd, e.g. going from the "p" layer to the almost identical "p-mp" layer. Also phasing issues will be more likely when the timbre is almost the same from layer to layer.

However, I don't know if Synchron has patches that actually use all 8-10 layers to x-fade between them, since you mention "strong" etc. articulations...? Perhaps they are only using e.g. 4-5 per articulation. Either way, there could still be the same problems, if e.g. a "strong" patch goes through layers like this: mp-mf, mf-f, f-ff, ff.

I would rather do two alternating takes of each layer than double the layers to 8 or ten layers fore sure. It would create more variation in the phrases and avoid doing either unneeded close-to-the-same-dynamics recordings at best, or be the cause of sound problems at worst. Also, amounts and types of vibrato would be more useful and important than doing 8-10 layers of the same playing technique. If that is indeed what Synchron does.

For short string articulations like staccato, spiccato, pizzacato etc. I would do maybe 8-10 layers if I had the luxury to be able to do it, since that will make the jumps between different dynamics more smooth - if the musicians can indeed differentiate little enough between a "p" staccato and an "p-mp" staccato to make it work.


----------



## Erik

syrinx said:


> I'm really interested in Synchron Strings, but I feel like I want to listen a bit to more demos. Is there any made by users here yet? I already listened to the official VSL ones a few times and find them okay, but I find there is a charm in listening to demos made by users.
> 
> Maybe I missed some post with a demo in this thread but I'm not feeling like combing through 112 pages of trolling in hope of one, unless (!) someone can assure me that there actually is one or two buried somewhere in the abomination that is this thread.



OK, let me be the next sitting duck here. Mozart's Le nozze di Figaro. Two versions of about one minute: the full orchestra and only the string section.
NB: Please mind your volume setting in the beginning (*it starts really pp*), after 10 seconds there is a *ff explosion* for all sections!
http://www.erikotte.nl/temp2018/Mozart_LNF_all.mp3 (<br />
Full orchestra)

http://www.erikotte.nl/temp2018/Mozart_LNF_SY.mp3 (SyS only)

Enjoy, comments are welcome.


----------



## Critz

Simon Ravn said:


> I don't agree that more velocity layers than 5-6 tops for sustained strings is even a pro. I would say it is more likely to be a con to do 8-10 layers.
> 
> Usually, you want to be able to x-fade between the dynamics when writing string phrases. And if you record two or three layers that are rather close to each other dynamically speaking, you are more likely to run into problems like slight intonation/timbre variations that will make it sound odd, e.g. going from the "p" layer to the almost identical "p-mp" layer. Also phasing issues will be more likely when the timbre is almost the same from layer to layer.
> 
> However, I don't know if Synchron has patches that actually use all 8-10 layers to x-fade between them, since you mention "strong" etc. articulations...? Perhaps they are only using e.g. 4-5 per articulation. Either way, there could still be the same problems, if e.g. a "strong" patch goes through layers like this: mp-mf, mf-f, f-ff, ff.
> 
> I would rather do two alternating takes of each layer than double the layers to 8 or ten layers fore sure. It would create more variation in the phrases and avoid doing either unneeded close-to-the-same-dynamics recordings at best, or be the cause of sound problems at worst. Also, amounts and types of vibrato would be more useful and important than doing 8-10 layers of the same playing technique. If that is indeed what Synchron does.
> 
> For short string articulations like staccato, spiccato, pizzacato etc. I would do maybe 8-10 layers if I had the luxury to be able to do it, since that will make the jumps between different dynamics more smooth - if the musicians can indeed differentiate little enough between a "p" staccato and an "p-mp" staccato to make it work.


That's exactly the point. To make it possible to deal with so many dynamic layers (even 6), it means you are forced to record and then edit very "static" and "lifeless" samples. Otherwise you cannot make them work together. That's exactly what happened imho.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

Now it's back to "static and lifeless" again


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## mikeh-375

Given the spat and speculation about dynamic layers, I wonder if a kindly sys owner wouldn't mind doing a simple long note and slowly going through the layers so we can all hear the transitions and the quality of the crescendo. Perhaps a note in each octave..just a thought...


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## jamwerks

Long pizz's would really be nice for celli and basses! I really miss those in every string library I have.


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## Guy Bacos

You also have the option of using natural crescendo and diminuendo, I did not use them in my last demo, perhaps should have occasionally, (next demo...) but it is an option. My main point was that between the 3 dynamic matrices, the timbre difference is very natural, rich and unique.


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## novaburst

syrinx said:


> I'm really interested in Synchron Strings, but I feel like I want to listen a bit to more demos.



The demos on the VSL site demonstrate quite a bit of what SyS can do and sound like, plus there are quite a bit of tutarials on there site, also a number of utube demos, 

If you are truly intrested in the strings wait untill the the end of this month and there should be a 30 day demo you can get your hands on.

If you cant make a disision out of all that then you should place your interest in another string library.


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## novaburst

Critz said:


> not sure VSL chose the right samples to represent the whole dynamic range very well.





ka00 said:


> +1
> This is exactly the type of thing I would have done, and compared it to other libraries. But I have already returned SyS so it can't be me.



@Critz dont you get tired of writing long manuscrips of how you think SyS is not a good library could not you just return the product and move on or is this some kind of holy mission of yours, please take note of what @ka00 has done and follow his footsteps.

@ka00 what gives dude you returned the product what in the world are you still complaining for, please move on get your self another library and make music.


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## Guy Bacos

I don't agree or disagree with any of the comments, perhaps VSL has plans for enhancements, don't know, but this is still a library not an orchestra, pros and cons are among all libraries, and working with the pros of any library is much more beneficial when working with virtual instruments.


----------



## Guy Bacos

ka00 said:


> Anyhow, who knows, maybe the best course of action is to close this thread and start two different ones. A synchron praise thread, and a synchron criticism thread. Two separate thought bubbles, or echo chambers, protected from each other.



Nah! Although occasionally the comments are awkwardly constructive, it's still a heathy conversation.


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## novaburst

ka00 said:


> Anyhow, who knows, maybe the best course of action is to close this thread


is this because you have lost interest, how self centred.



ka00 said:


> I have been making music with other libraries



yes and I have listened to some, I would say keep it up.



ka00 said:


> Or just maybe discussion is a good thing.



There has to be a point when you make your own decision and move on you showed a great example by returning the product, but it seems you forgot to move on, but if you feel obligated to fire complaints for the sake of simply complaining its up to you knock your self out



ka00 said:


> My wife, who knows nothing about orchestral music, thought SyS legato passages sounded like a keyboard played by a lounge act.



was your wife listing to you perform or was it a piece from the VSL site because there is a mighty difference in a skilful user and an unskilful user that does not know much about the library or the type of music being performed.



ka00 said:


> But you are right in that I should move on. I'll try to quit this thread, I promise.



But this is a great idea when you think about it what interest would you have in the thread any more I mean what would you want to hear more criticism would that make you want to return the library oh but wait you have already done that.

would you want to hear people say more good things about the library, would that make you want to purchase the library ............again

or as I said do you just have a habit of bashing when the tide feels good,

Moving on means your free of it, so why entangle yourself in something that means nothing to you.


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## muziksculp

@ka00 You always have the option to re-purchase Synchron Strings when the full library is finally released, with the new Synchron Player, you can re-evaluate it at that point in time, and see if you have a different opinion about it. 

Not much will change until the full library, and the Synchron Player are officially released. I'm sure there will be a healthy number of additional new, and very helpful videos, and audio demos as well of the fully completed Synchron Strings Library, and the Synchron Player.


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## Symfoniq

novaburst said:


> was your wife listing to you perform or was it a piece from the VSL site because there is a mighty difference in a skilful user and an unskilful user that does not know much about the library or the type of music being performed.



While not directed at me, I find this kind of comment condescending.

My wife is a cellist. She doesn't think Synchron Strings sound very good, either in VSL's demos or anyone else's. There are sampled strings that she finds somewhat convincing, but so far, not Synchron Strings. Since she disagrees with you, is she unskilled, or ignorant about the music being performed?

Some of the criticism in this thread hasn't been above-board, but to automatically call into question the skill or knowledge of someone who has criticisms isn't doing your own argument any favors.


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## novaburst

ka00 said:


> Keep what? Keep my music to myself



Yes this came out wrong, I did mean to say keep it up, and have edited.

on your other points what is is what is and think we both said what we wanted to say.


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## novaburst

Symfoniq said:


> My wife is a cellist. She doesn't think Synchron Strings sound very good, either in VSL's demos



Can we all quit the my wife my wife my wife syndrome please


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## novaburst

Why don't you just get them to comment personal with you being there spokes man


----------



## Cartoon

Symfoniq said:


> My wife is a cellist. She doesn't think Synchron Strings sound very good, either in VSL's demos or anyone else's.



I think that's also just a personal taste! 

But if you listen to composers/sound engineers who visit the Synchron Stage. All loved the sound...
And some of them also own the Synchron libraries ☝️


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## Guy Bacos

My plumber liked it. He gave it 4 pipe wrench.


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## muziksculp

ka00 said:


> Yes, muziksculp, that was exactly my thinking. If the legatos were substantially improved, I think I'd definitely buy it again down the road.



Yes, That's a good strategy, if you still don't like what you hear after the library content is complete, and Synchron Player is ready, then just use what you have, or look for other strings libraries that suit your taste. It's that simple


----------



## Symfoniq

Cartoon said:


> I think that's also just a personal taste!
> 
> But if you listen to composers/sound engineers who visit the Synchron Stage. All loved the sound...
> And some of them also own the Synchron libraries ☝️



My point isn't that she's right or wrong, but rather that someone having a different opinion from novaburst doesn't mean they're not qualified to render it.

For myself, I still maintain that the jury is out until all the articulations are finished, and Synchron Player is released.


----------



## novaburst

Symfoniq said:


> but rather that someone having a different opinion from novaburst doesn't mean they're not qualified to render it.



Where in the world did this come from, I think it boarders on the line of stupidity and I want even comment on such behaviour that a child is more sensible.



Symfoniq said:


> For myself, I still maintain that the jury is out until all the articulations are finished, and Synchron Player is released.



So what's this the whole world against SyS whats the matter you cant find another string library that meets your needs there are plenty out there to choose from why are you banking all your hopes on SyS what you waiting for, you have let the thread know you don't think SyS sound nice and the rest of the VSL products don't sound nice and other string library's sound better so I don't see your point in waiting your not making sense, and is a little confusing.

how is the rest of articulations going to make any library sound better do you really know what your saying,

VSL have giving more than enough demos, more than enough library and more than enough information inside tutorials, and documentation for anyone to be fully up to speed of what it sounds like, and what anyone needs to know on how it works, what the new player will do to the work flow please note (new player=work flow) not new sound or better sound.

If you are not feeling the library now or if it is not doing any thing for you with all the information shown to you then forget it and stop fooling your self. there is more than enough infomation out there for anyone to make a choice.

I made my choice long before a lot of this information and I am glad I did and I have to admit they are the best sounding strings in my arsenal by far the best purchase I have ever made and once more an early bird purchase.


----------



## ctsai89

oops I'm back posting in this thread again. But honestly Critz really knows what he's talking about.


----------



## Guy Bacos

ctsai89 said:


> oops I'm back posting in this thread again. But honestly Critz really knows what he's talking about.



Going in circles here. Even if Critz is 100% right about everything, what is suppose to happen next?


----------



## ctsai89

Guy Bacos said:


> Going in circles here. Even of Critz is 100% right about everything, what is suppose to happen next?



nothing happens but I'm just on critz' side if anyone were to call him a troll. I don't think he's unreasonable


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## Guy Bacos

ctsai89 said:


> nothing happens but I'm just on critz' side if anyone were to call him a troll. I don't think he's unreasonable



He makes his points, and he's not a troll, but he should move on....


----------



## Vik

ctsai89 said:


> oops I'm back posting in this thread again. But honestly Critz really knows what he's talking about.


I've stopped monitoring this thread, at least for now - but I have noticed two things (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that makes this thread different from most other threads on this forum. One thing is that there are a higher than usual number of users who have commented that they'd like to see improvements in a newly released library made by a well respected company, and the other is that one single member (Critz) has posted maybe 200 posts in this thread generally focusing on what he doesn't like with this library. 
I'm not saying that it has become repetetive, but from my own experience - when I was frustrated after having bought Mural 1 and 2 and still couldn't make the legatos sound right, I bought Berlin Strings and (at least to some degree) stopped venting about Mural. Or maybe I didn't (but the upgrade to SSS and getting SCS which imo is a much better library) resolved my Spitfire frustration. I guess I needed to vent it was my first investment in a new string library in many years. That's (needing to vent) is probably Critz' situation as well - whether he has been unreasonable or not. 
I would have sold Mural for a reduced price back then if it was resell-able, and if VSL libraries can be resold/because VSL has a refund policy, maybe the best solution for the situation Critz was in would have been to simply cancel his Synchron Strings investment. Being frustrated can be tiresome for all involved.


----------



## Critz

Vik said:


> I've stopped monitoring this thread, at least for now - but I have noticed two things (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that makes this thread different from most other threads on this forum. One thing is that there are a higher than usual number of users who have commented that they'd like to see improvements in a newly released library made by a well respected company, and the other is that one single member (Critz) has posted maybe 200 posts in this thread generally focusing on what he doesn't like with this library.
> I'm not saying that it has become repetetive, but from my own experience - when I was frustrated after having bought Mural 1 and 2 and still couldn't make the legatos sound right, I bought Berlin Strings and (at least to some degree) stopped venting about Mural. Or maybe I didn't (but the upgrade to SSS and getting SCS which imo is a much better library) resolved my Spitfire frustration. I guess I needed to vent it was my first investment in a new string library in many years. That's (needing to vent) is probably Critz' situation as well - whether he has been unreasonable or not.
> I would have sold Mural for a reduced price back then if it was resell-able, and if VSL libraries can be resold/because VSL has a refund policy, maybe the best solution for the situation Critz was in would have been to simply cancel his Synchron Strings investment. Being frustrated can be tiresome for all involved.



Honestely I'm not frustrated about money. I also took advantage of several offers so the price was totally fine. 
As I said I'm just very upset because I was really hoping to go back to a VSL-oriented template with Synchron Series release. Why? Because as I said everything is smoother when you use VSL. 
But as someone said in an old thread, Syn Strings was the real test. And to me it's mostly a fail. Something could be improved/solved with updates, other things cannot be fixed. 
All my comments were meant to be (questionable) suggestions for this library but also for next libraries tha have to be released.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

And then you did your fair share of carefully placed nonsensical trolling as well.
I believe everyone made their points several times over in this thread. Anything else is just stirring the pot for no apparent reason other than to create doubt and resentment, hoping to sway the general discourse, because misery loves company.

Things like this sort themselves out in real-life communication, but are allowed to fester on in forums due to the nature of internet communication. Perpetual, ever self-affirming craptalk is being mislabeled as "discussion" and I find it disingenuous and deplorable. What it does is to undermine and erode the conversation for everyone genuinely interested in talking about the library. This thread, in particular, has been shot to shit, and it's tragic. That's just what a lot of people do as a sport on the internet because the venue is there.


----------



## Vik

It's also a very long thread. Maybe just closing it and starting a new one actually would be a good idea


----------



## syrinx

Erik said:


> OK, let me be the next sitting duck here. Mozart's Le nozze di Figaro. Two versions of about one minute: the full orchestra and only the string section.
> NB: Please mind your volume setting in the beginning (*it starts really pp*), after 10 seconds there is a *ff explosion* for all sections!
> http://www.erikotte.nl/temp2018/Mozart_LNF_all.mp3 (<br />
> Full orchestra)
> 
> http://www.erikotte.nl/temp2018/Mozart_LNF_SY.mp3 (SyS only)
> 
> Enjoy, comments are welcome.



Thank you very much, it's very helpful to hear the strings soloed like that! Nice work, I find the Classical Era the hardest to do mock-ups on!


----------



## Erik

You're welcome syrinx. I chose this Mozart Overture, because I wanted to try out this lib in a non-epic, non-scoring context. There is enough to enjoy with this product I think. While working on a piece in a completely different style with the _product as is_ now, I can only wait for what has been promised. Thanks for your reply anyway!


----------



## syrinx

novaburst said:


> The demos on the VSL site demonstrate quite a bit of what SyS can do and sound like, plus there are quite a bit of tutarials on there site, also a number of utube demos,





syrinx said:


> I already listened to the official VSL ones a few times and find them okay, but I find there is a charm in listening to demos made by users.





novaburst said:


> If you are truly intrested in the strings wait untill the the end of this month and there should be a 30 day demo you can get your hands on.



I didn't know you could d/l demos of libraries. I'll have to look into that.



novaburst said:


> If you cant make a disision out of all that then you should place your interest in another string library.



I do an alright job judging where I should place my interest, thanks anyway.


----------



## syrinx

Erik said:


> You're welcome syrinx. I chose this Mozart Overture, because I wanted to try out this lib in a non-epic, non-scoring context. There is enough to enjoy with this product I think. While working on a piece in a completely different style with the _product as is_ now, I can only wait for what has been promised. Thanks for your reply anyway!



Great that you took on that challenge! 

Regarding the "completely different style", judging from a youtube video like this, I'm starting to think SyS will do an amazing job with long notes "epic" film-scoring!


----------



## Saxer

syrinx said:


>



Extremely useless video.


----------



## Cartoon

Saxer said:


> Extremely useless video.



Extremely useless comment


----------



## Saxer

Cartoon said:


> Extremely useless comment


Might be.

But I think the video shows exactly how *not* to use a string library (or a sample library in general).
It's like comparing cars by pressing the accelerator pedal half down while the engine is idling. It says exactly nothing about the product itself.


----------



## mikeh-375

I'm with Saxer on that video. Non- idiomatic use of articulations is not helpful and might actually be misleading to some. Mind you, I then listened to the VSL walkthrough on the same Youtube page and, well, I might be converted yet.


----------



## Cartoon

Saxer said:


> Might be.
> 
> But I think the video shows exactly how *not* to use a string library (or a sample library in general).
> It's like comparing cars by pressing the accelerator pedal half down while the engine is idling. It says exactly nothing about the product itself.



This is a better comment now


----------



## holywilly

VSL just release the "Synchron-1st- violins_library_update_2018-02-07"

Downloaded and installed, didn't notice what's changed. Anyone try this update yet?


----------



## FabioA

holywilly said:


> VSL just release the "Synchron-1st- violins_library_update_2018-02-07"
> 
> Downloaded and installed, didn't notice what's changed. Anyone try this update yet?


Do you have the extended version? I can't see any update on MyVSL (standard).


----------



## holywilly

FabioA said:


> Do you have the extended version? I can't see any update on MyVSL (standard).



I have the standard version as well, the update is under “library download” instead of “library update”.


----------



## FabioA

holywilly said:


> I have the standard version as well, the update is under “library download” instead of “library update”.


Thanks man, let's see what is about :D


----------



## Eptesicus

I was hoping for a cello update as there is some noisy notes (sounds like odd or loud rebows on some velocity layers) and there is a click on one note i have noticed.


----------



## novaburst

holywilly said:


> VSL just release the "Synchron-1st- violins_library_update_2018-02-07"
> 
> Downloaded and installed, didn't notice what's changed. Anyone try this update yet?



It is pretty big with 200mb not sure what its for maybe to do with the player


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Maybe I'm wrong, BUT for me the legatos are sounding a bit better. It's a pity that this update is - again - released without talking about it.


----------



## syrinx

Saxer said:


> Might be.
> 
> But I think the video shows exactly how *not* to use a string library (or a sample library in general).
> It's like comparing cars by pressing the accelerator pedal half down while the engine is idling. It says exactly nothing about the product itself.



I see where you’re coming from. Of course, the trill sample made no sense doing that phrase, and the phrase itself wasn’t the most suited overall. Still, I disagree that it says nothing of the product. I thought since SyS didn’t sound as total crap put through that, I’m more confident it would be a worthwhile investment. But this is coming from a perspective of already listening to official demos from VSL.


----------



## novaburst

My favourite way to have complete control over the marcato that is a short layer on the legatos.

I find that controlling the marcato from the mic instead of the slot x is my preferred method of use for SyS,
there are one or two ways to control the marcato the norm is from the slot x, but I find using the mic to take it completely out giving way to very silky legatos and bring it back in for a more harsher sound,

This way you can also lesson pan or move pan around to suit taste

but over all I find controlling from the mic instead of slot x is a far better control.

Please look at my setup for this.

Also if you are going to use this method don't forget to unlink the mics


----------



## FabioA

A pretty simple track, the first one I composed for exploring gameplay in Wild Mage | Phantom Twilight, an action RPG in development. Patches used: long-soft, flautando, cresc.

Wild Mage | Phantom Twilight - Kaleidoscopic Spheres


----------



## Guy Bacos

Short piece with synchron strings.

Inside the Permafrost


----------



## Steve Martin

Guy Bacos said:


> Short piece with synchron strings.
> 
> Inside the Permafrost


very nice Guy  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Static, lifeless, too many velocity layers! Too cold. Where's the tropical vibrato?


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Static, lifeless, too many velocity layers! Too cold. Where's the tropical vibrato?


To keep the sarchasm going: my favorite part is from 0:00 to 0:06.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> To keep the sarchasm going: my favorite part is from 0:00 to 0:06.



How much per post do you actually get?


----------



## Vadium

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Where's the tropical vibrato?


Don't wait any tropical from austrian company)


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> How much per post do you actually get?


What's your rate to keep provoking me instead?


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> my favorite part is from 0:00 to 0:06.



Critz, I appreciate your comments regarding synchron, it's fine, however humour isn't your thing...


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Critz, I appreciate your comments regarding synchron, it's fine, however humour isn't your thing...



You should not appreciate Jimmy sarchasm as well. Or it is ok because it is "positive sarchasm"?
Nothing wrong with the piece. Synchron sounds pretty fine here, the composition is fine.
But I think it's time for VSL to release some demos with a different string writing than "a note per 2 measures".


----------



## Guy Bacos

And if I had done another demo with shorter notes, (as I have done several times already + Jay's Gershwin mock up), you would probably be lamenting yourself how VSL should be focussing on releasing demos with longer notes, like "a note per 2 measures", right?


----------



## Guy Bacos

I didn't find Jimmy sarcastic, he just gave his opinion.


----------



## ghandizilla

Maybe it's drown way back in the topic but... Back to the essential: how do you think the Synchron Player will change playability of the Synchron Strings? Did someone heard anything at NAMM '18?


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> And if I had done another demo with shorter notes, (as I have done several times already + Jay's Gershwin mock up), you would probably be lamenting yourself how VSL should be focussing on releasing demos with longer notes, like "a note per 2 measures", right?


what about a demo with some ostinato, to show the purpose of those 10 variations of long notes (that take a lot of memory), we all were hoping we could finally achieve some strings writing impossible to achieve with previous libraries. And maybe some runs, or just some fast writing, that doesn't mean to use staccato/shorts.


----------



## ctsai89

I'm all for Vsl making more demoes that sound more like what Andy blaney does

But I do like Guy's music


----------



## Guy Bacos

Well you know, the moment you do one genre, others, from other forums, other worlds, complain that they want to hear something else. However, I have always been open with various demo styles, so just give it time.


----------



## FriFlo

Guy Bacos said:


> Critz, I appreciate your comments regarding synchron, it's fine, however humour isn't your thing...


Come on, Guy! I had to laugh and if you manage to take it not to seriously, you will smirk a little bit, too.  I like every bit after 0:06, by the way!


----------



## Guy Bacos

I prefer Family Guy.


----------



## Critz

ctsai89 said:


> I'm all for Vsl making more demoes that sound more like what Andy blaney does
> 
> But I do like Guy's music


Exactly what I meant, some hard stuff to mock up, not strings pad writing.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> Exactly what I meant, some hard stuff to mock up, not strings pad writing.



Ah sorry Critz, all can do is basic pad writing.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Ah sorry Critz, all can do is basic pad writing.


You know me or anyone else would never tell You such a thing. But that's what Synchron can do.


----------



## ctsai89

Sarcasms lol


----------



## Guy Bacos

Critz said:


> You know me or anyone else would never tell You such a thing. But that's what Synchron can do.



Critz, have you posted on this thread yet? https://vi-control.net/community/threads/most-disappointing-library-purchase.68896/

You should really do all your lamenting on this thread like others are doing about various other libraries, and all the things you don't like about VSL including the type of demos, it's the perfect thread for you or ignore this thread, however this seems something impossible for you to do, it's beyond you, or write directly to VSL. Meanwhile you'll just have to be patient or as I said and many others have said to you, give it up and move on. Your obsession is troubling.


----------



## novaburst

ghandizilla said:


> Maybe it's drown way back in the topic but... Back to the essential: how do you think the Synchron Player will change playability of the Synchron Strings? Did someone heard anything at NAMM '18?



From what I saw it will enable better work flow, and encourage customisation making it very personal.
even now with the standard player you are able to customize the playability of these strings.

But I think in all think work flow and customization.........

You can check out namm on this page

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/vsl-synchron-strings-i-announced-nov-release.65555/page-109


----------



## Casiquire

Critz said:


> Exactly what I meant, some hard stuff to mock up, not strings pad writing.



Well without full legatos, I'd expect long sustains and a lot of shorts. That's exactly what we get. I'm not sure what's so odd about that.


----------



## Guy Bacos

omiroad said:


> It doesn't make sense to me how everyone complains how Critz keeps replying here, yet they reply to every single one of his posts.



Because Critz can be articulate at times and you start to believe you can have a civil discussion, but as soon as you do that, he's back to his old self again. 

But you are right, best thing is to ignore him.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Back to business.

Here's another new mix, let me know what you think.

Capricious Waltz (new mix)


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Guy Bacos said:


> Back to business.
> 
> Here's another new mix, let me know what you think.
> 
> Capricious Waltz (new mix)



The new mix sounds great. Of course, I heard nothing amiss with the previous mix. Listening again this piece sounds so professional in every way. The midi-performance is wonderful, but even more wonderful is the composition itself. This is far better than anything I have heard from "classical" composers in a long, long time.


----------



## novaburst

Certainly a nice piece


----------



## Guy Bacos

Paul T McGraw said:


> The new mix sounds great. Of course, I heard nothing amiss with the previous mix. Listening again this piece sounds so professional in every way. The midi-performance is wonderful, but even more wonderful is the composition itself. This is far better than anything I have heard from "classical" composers in a long, long time.



Thanks Paul, that's very kind!


----------



## ctsai89

Guy Bacos said:


> Back to business.
> 
> Here's another new mix, let me know what you think.
> 
> Capricious Waltz (new mix)



You a ravel reincarnation


----------



## Guy Bacos

ctsai89 said:


> You a ravel reincarnation



Far from it, but I get the compliment, thanks!


----------



## SGordB

ctsai89 said:


> You a ravel reincarnation


I also was thinking, this is so Ravel - with the nuance and the orchestral colour - but then near the end, I also thought, hey, this is a little bit Mahler too (bringing it back to Synchronville). Prettay, prettay dazzling - as a composition and orchestration, as a display of early 21st century sample library prowess and as a "you are there" audio mix.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Yes, Ravel is such an influence in my orchestration, glad I could to this not too bad, cause the times I tried something like JW or HZ always sounded like shit.


----------



## karusz

Hello Guy Bacos, your mixes sound amazing. I would like to ask you what do you use to control articulations, and what DAW are you using? It is very interesting if you use just the tool for articulations from VSL (the web interface) or anything else? I would like to learn something from you . Thank you!


----------



## karusz

And for other people, what do you thing of Synchron Strings comparing to Spitfire Symphonic Strings? Spitifre has more colour by itself?


----------



## muziksculp

I'm guessing that* Synchron Strings* should be a great library for re-producing _Baroque style string music_.

Especially when using the short articulations with all their dynamic layers, I have heard some very convincing and realistic demos of Baroque string music done with VSL Dimension Strings, mixed with some Chamber and Solo VSL Strings. I have not heard any other library that can match VSL in this area.

Mixing up VSL's Solo, Chamber, Appassionata, Orchestral, and Synchron Strings is one of the special strengths of using VSL Strings Libraries.

VSL Strings are very flexible tools at your disposal. You can create your own unique string sound, that gets as close as possible to your intended taste/style of strings in your composition. IMHO. Sychron Strings adds another layer of very interesting possibilities, and flexibility.


----------



## SGordB

Guy Bacos said:


> Yes, Ravel is such an influence in my orchestration, glad I could to this not too bad, cause the times I tried something like JW or HZ always sounded like shit.


Far better to remind people of a Ravel or a Mahler (without being derivative or imitative - hope that's clear!), IMO, than JW or HZ. There's a glut of film score-inspired mockups and demos, a real dearth of neoclassical/21st century tonal orchestral music like yours. It's an invaluable "oeuvre" for so many of us.


----------



## Guy Bacos

SGordB said:


> Far better to remind people of a Ravel or a Mahler (without being derivative or imitative - hope that's clear!), IMO, than JW or HZ. There's a glut of film score-inspired mockups and demos, a real dearth of neoclassical/21st century tonal orchestral music like yours. It's an invaluable "oeuvre" for so many of us.



At some point I had a friendly talk with Hans Zimmer, he talked about film music vs concert music, and this helped me decide which I was best suited for and direction to take. This could change at some point, but not for now.


----------



## SGordB

Guy Bacos said:


> At some point I had a friendly talk with Hans Zimmer, he talked about film music vs concert music, and this helped me decide which I was best suited for. This could change at some point, but not for now.


Well, for your pocketbook, I assume film music could be a hell of a lot more meaningful. I'm sure you have the chops to rise to the occasion if the opportunity arose. Was the difference framed in terms of background vs foreground music? Would be interesting to hear what he said.


----------



## Guy Bacos

SGordB said:


> Well, for your pocketbook, I assume film music could be a hell of a lot more meaningful.



Definitely, or potentially, still no free passes. I had also worked a bit the the film industry, and just to mention, for a couple of years I was working for an agency making pitches for commercials, and that was another avenue potentially very lucrative, which I gave up after a while, didn't enjoy it. At the end of the day, or later in your life, I'd rather look back and feel good with what I was able to accomplish and done the most with the abilities I had. I felt the film industry would probably not have given me this opportunity.



> I'm sure you have the chops to rise to the occasion if the opportunity arose. Was the difference framed in terms of background vs foreground music? Would be interesting to hear what he said.



I think I could probably do well, the little experience I have went very well, but it's still a long, long way from getting your name out there, doing A movies and being well paid. Many people on this forum have much more skills for certain cinematic genres than I have and are still struggling to make it in the business.

For the last 5 years I have several concert works of mine played regularly, including a Symphonic Variation piece for piano and orchestra which has been performed close to 20 times. So it's pretty much going the direction I was hoping, even though I couldn't rely on income from it, however getting some accomplishments, not that accomplishments are the most important thing in life, but it's something personal I guess.

As for the conversation with Hans, well since he appreciated my music or skills, he was basically trying to motivate me in taking action in different ways, whether it's film music or concert music. He just likes helping musicians and I was lucky he took some time for me.


----------



## Guy Bacos

karusz said:


> Hello Guy Bacos, your mixes sound amazing. I would like to ask you what do you use to control articulations, and what DAW are you using? It is very interesting if you use just the tool for articulations from VSL (the web interface) or anything else? I would like to learn something from you . Thank you!



Thanks Karusz! I work with _Logic Pro_. I use the basic tools, for slow passages I use the _velocity_ _fader_ but not for the short and quick notes in faster passages. I vary the _attacks_ sometimes, play with the _release_ depending whether it needs it or not, occasionally the _filter_ if the velocity has reached its limit to go softer, _tuning_, try to keep it out of tune a bit. _Slot X_ comes in handy sometimes. As for patches, I always try to vary as much possible the articulations. As far as plug ins, nothing special, a _limiter_, some _exciter, MIRacle_, sometimes a bit of compression depending on the style of the piece. As far as sequencing, I avoid using the click track. So nothing fancy here, just the basics. Of course with Synchron it's like changing cars, there's a bit of an adaptation to do which I'm still doing.


----------



## ctsai89

Guy Bacos said:


> Yes, Ravel is such an influence in my orchestration, glad I could to this not too bad, cause the times I tried something like JW or HZ always sounded like shit.



You also speak his harmonic language pretty well


----------



## Guy Bacos

I remember your epic Ravel thread, guess we won't clash there.


----------



## novaburst

karusz said:


> And for other people, what do you thing of Synchron Strings comparing to Spitfire Symphonic Strings? Spitifre has more colour by itself?



My first thought on Synchron Strings was finally!!

I haven't any of Spitfire string librarys but have listened to some amazing muckups performed with Spitfire library's.

I was drawn more to Synchron Strings when it comes to tone and sound.

I think colour comes out of what type of compersition you do.


----------



## Guy Bacos

And keep in mind that currently only legatos for 1st violins and cellos. I'm looking forward to the full content of the 2nd violins.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> VSL Strings are very flexible tools at your disposal. You can create your own unique string sound, that gets as close as possible to your intended taste/style of strings in your composition.



Very true, and mixed up with there software, VEpro, the Instrument, and another new player soon to join the ranks, it does open up a world of possibilities, and still very kind to power consumption, and stability.


----------



## novaburst

Guy Bacos said:


> And keep in mind that currently only legatos for 1st violins and cellos. I'm looking forward to the full content of the 2nd violins.



Yes certainly this, then what is to come next for the Synchron series, winds, or SyS 2, very excited.

I think a very busy and existing time for VSL


----------



## ctsai89

Guy Bacos said:


> I remember your epic Ravel thread, guess we won't clash there.



You've got good taste in music (imo) I wouldn't clash you anywhere.


----------



## muziksculp

Here is an interesting video showing *Synchron Strings*, hosted by _VE-Pro6_, midi triggered via _Notion 6_.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muziksculp said:


> midi triggered via _Notion 6_.



That's exactly how it sounds. This will never work.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Some good news on the Violin update: "The Library Update for the First Violins contains a mini bug-fix regarding repeated notes in the soft legato patches of the dynamic matrices."

Some bad news on the Synchron Player: "We are currently testing and optimizing Synchron Player and will be posting a video as soon as we are happy with the results of our tweaks. I don't think that this video will be available before mid of March."

March? Really? :(


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> That's exactly how it sounds. This will never work.



I'm guessing you mean the _Notion 6_ midi Performance sounds too mechanical/robotic.

But imho. the actual Synchron Strings sounds/timbre are pretty good to my ears.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing you mean the _Notion 6_ midi Performance sounds too mechanical/robotic.
> 
> But imho. the actual Synchron Strings sounds/timbre are pretty good to my ears.



The SyS sound is impeccable. But I always wondered why people attempted sample library playback through notation software. I get that not everyone seems themselves as audio production people, but with sample libraries, there's simply no way around it.


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The SyS sound is impeccable. But I always wondered why people attempted sample library playback through notation software. I get that not everyone seems themselves as audio production people, but with sample libraries, there's simply no way around it.



Yeah maybe It is just easier to copy/input notes from music manuscripts to music notation programs, like finale, notion, ..etc. than into a normal DAW. at the price of it sounding lifeless and very robotic as far as the midi performance goes.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Unfortunately there are great, good, average, bad and terrible examples of any library.


----------



## C-Wave

Finally Westlake Pro just uploaded a decent edit of the NAMM 2018 presentation, directly from Paul’s computer:
edit: the videos related to Synchron Player are parts 4 to 9.


----------



## Casiquire

Fantastic, thank you!


----------



## holywilly

C-Wave said:


> Finally Westlake Pro just uploaded a decent edit of the NAMM 2018 presentation, directly from Paul’s computer:
> edit: the videos related to Synchron Player are parts 4 to 9.




I really like the new Synchron Player, looks like the player has more efficient way to put articulations & mic positions altogether!


----------



## star.keys

I recently purchased Synchron Strings 1 from one of the users here and just wanted to share my thoughts. If I would have read this thread earlier, I would have got easily distracted by some comments here, however I'm glad that I did't do that. I've got most other leading Strings libraries on the planet and I am now absolutely thrilled to own Synchron Strings 1 for its consistency, versatily, smooth and an overall sound. Just bought an upgrade to Full library and downloading. VSL has delivered a top class product here. Close mic is as dry as it could get. Other mics can be as lush and ambient as they could get. This library has got very clean, smooth and consistent sound and offers a very versatile sound that can be tweaked (choose the right mix of mics) to the context. Just my thoughts, no intention to fire up a debate here.


----------



## meradium

If you are talking about shorts: yes, sounds like it. Otherwise I am really wondering what is the difference from a good synth. I keep on coming back to it because I like the idea of having the consistency and depth portrayed in the VSL package. For their percussion its seems to work. Just not for the strings. So sad to see (hear). But then again: good for my wallet....


----------



## novaburst

meradium said:


> If you are talking about shorts: yes, sounds like it



Great catch



star.keys said:


> Close mic is as dry as it could get. Other mics can be as lush and ambient as they could get. This library has got very clean, smooth and consistent sound



Sorry @meradium lush does not sound like shorts to me but what ever.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

star.keys said:


> This library has got very clean, smooth and consistent sound and offers a very versatile sound that can be tweaked (choose the right mix of mics) to the context.


Yes, it's all about the mix! Usually, I used the room-mix preset (like maybe most of us?), but today I played with the close ones. And voilà: here we have the "better" legatos and way more vibrato we are used to have in the other dry libraries. It comes pretty close to them, in my opinion. Much better transitions, less separated. So, I made my own mix and continue to use it with prominent close mics. I think that's the key.


----------



## novaburst

star.keys said:


> (choose the right mix of mics)



Loading all the mic positions in VEpro and assigning all on the same track is a great way to check out what mics blend together to your satisfaction.

I wonder if the new player can offer this but stream lined.


----------



## Tfis

I made the decision to wait until the synchron player will be released before I integrate the library into my template.
I build all my VIPRO matrices from scratch, keyswitches and expression maps, too, which takes some time.


----------



## Eptesicus

Tfis said:


> I made the decision to wait until the synchron player will be released before I integrate the library into my template.
> I build all my VIPRO matrices from scratch, keyswitches and expression maps, too, which takes some time.



This. I'm not putting any time into it until the rest of the legato sections and player are out.


----------



## Vadium

For legato notes I will use Hollywood Strings - timbre of these 2 libraries are almost identical)

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/compare-sy-mid-and-hs-close-mp3.11994/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Mike Greene

Critz said:


> Ahh, I was missing a bad sounding demo after so many days. Thanks for that. I bet Synchron are the second one playing, right? Anyway I also think you made quite some efforts to make it sound that bad.
> That one sounds really like a synth. It's fascinating how VsL has been always capable to sound good or great with Pro users and shitty with newbes.


Critz, criticisms are fine, but you're being an a-hole here. Insulting members is not acceptable.

I've deleted the post I quoted, as well as the followup reactions. Maybe over-moderation on my part, and VSL did specifically say they didn't want me to edit their threads, but from a forum perspective, I don't think most people want to check Latest Posts, only to see stuff like this.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike Greene said:


> Critz, criticisms are fine, but you're being an a-hole here. Insulting members is not acceptable.
> 
> I've deleted the post I quoted, as well as the followup reactions. Maybe over-moderation on my part, and VSL did specifically say they didn't want me to edit their threads, but from a forum perspective, I don't think most people want to check Latest Posts, only to see stuff like this.



@Mike Greene 

Well Done 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Ashermusic

muziksculp said:


> @Mike Greene
> 
> Well Done
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp



+1.


----------



## FriFlo

muziksculp said:


> @Mike Greene
> 
> Well Done
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


----------



## maestro2be

What latency settings are you able to use in your DAW using all of the full surround mics either locally on your DAW Machine, or hosted through VE Pro on a slave without any pops and clicks all sections playing?


----------



## jamwerks

Finally!


----------



## Guy Bacos

Just don't go far Mike.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Hey, to those who are not looking into VSL account every two days - 2nd violins complete are there!


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

And... on the product page the estimated release time information is gone. Maybe the other instruments have been finished as well? They also updated the final disc space needed, have a look at the bottom of the product page where the articulation list is. But they haven't updated the articulation list (sample content) itself. There will legatos for 2nd violins, right?


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

New information: "The complete viola section will be available in approximately one week--we'll keep you posted..."


----------



## Critz

My first impression on the new completed section.
I risk my (bad) reputation telling that this section is far more musical that Violin I section. I didn't played Violin II thatm much before, for obvious reasons, but to me they re-edited more patches other than the missing legatos.
Just play the pizzicato patch; the Violin II sounds like a bigger section to me. It doesn't have that "soloist" feeling of Violin I.
I'm crazy, ok, but to me someone listened to some of the criticism appeared in this long thread...


----------



## holywilly

There’s a Violin I V3 update which released along with the Violins II (dated 2018-02-21), I’m wondering what’s the new update for Violins I? Anyone here try the new update yet?


----------



## C-Wave

holywilly said:


> There’s a Violin I V3 update which released along with the Violins II (dated 2018-02-21), I’m wondering what’s the new update for Violins I? Anyone here try the new update yet?


I don’t see a Violins I v3 update, but there is a Strings v3 update. Are you sure?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Standard looks like a great deal, currently.


----------



## ctsai89

Critz said:


> My first impression on the new completed section.
> I risk my (bad) reputation telling that this section is far more musical that Violin I section. I didn't played Violin II thatm much before, for obvious reasons, but to me they re-edited more patches other than the missing legatos.
> Just play the pizzicato patch; the Violin II sounds like a bigger section to me. It doesn't have that "soloist" feeling of Violin I.
> I'm crazy, ok, but to me someone listened to some of the criticism appeared in this long thread...



You have both good and bad reputations. Depends on different kinds of people.


----------



## holywilly

C-Wave said:


> I don’t see a Violins I v3 update, but there is a Strings v3 update. Are you sure?



In the “library download” section instead of “library update”.


----------



## maestro2be

holywilly said:


> In the “library download” section instead of “library update”.


It's a little hard to see but if you look closely, it only says strings 1, not violins 1 for that v3 patch. Seems to be an ensemble patch update.


----------



## holywilly

maestro2be said:


> It's a little hard to see but if you look closely, it only says strings 1, not violins 1 for that v3 patch. Seems to be an ensemble patch update.


Oops, I saw it by mistake, sorry.


----------



## Simon Ravn

I am actually seriously considering getting this to get my own view on it. It might turn out to be a terrible decision, but at least it will make me know. I will also be waiting for the synchron player before using much time on it for sure. Building matrices etc just seems too much hassle.


----------



## MatFluor

Not really helping, but I'm waiting for the whole Synchron series to maybe jump on it. Enough time to iron out quirks, let other people test and help VSL and to know what Synchron is good for, and for what's it's not so good for.


----------



## Casiquire

Critz said:


> I risk my (bad) reputation



Ok that was funny


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> My first impression on the new completed section.
> I risk my (bad) reputation telling that this section is far more musical that Violin I section. I didn't played Violin II thatm much before, for obvious reasons, but to me they re-edited more patches other than the missing legatos.
> Just play the pizzicato patch; the Violin II sounds like a bigger section to me. It doesn't have that "soloist" feeling of Violin I.
> I'm crazy, ok, but to me someone listened to some of the criticism appeared in this long thread...



Yes, isn't that nice to hear?

They didn't re-edit anything.


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> Just play the pizzicato patch; the Violin II sounds like a bigger section to me. It doesn't have that "soloist" feeling of Violin I.



I think if you set up like this and pull each of the patch's in question and play the notes 1st V then 2nd V my thoughts are the 1st V sound bigger but there was some that sounded the same and it was noticeable that the 2nd V were a little empty as in missing a few Violins ..... 1st V 14, .....2nd V 10.

I went all through the shorts






Edit: forgot , for your pizz hit the full Dynamic range with V XF and the difference is huge that the 1s V sound bigger,


----------



## Critz

novaburst said:


> I think if you set up like this and pull each of the patch's in question and play the notes 1st V then 2nd V my thoughts are the 1st V sound bigger but there was some that sounded the same and it was noticeable that the 2nd V were a little empty as in missing a few Violins ..... 1st V 14, .....2nd V 10.
> 
> I went all through the shorts


My impression is that the samples choosen for Violin II are less "tight", there is a reasonable delay amongst players. If you play repetition note on 2nd pizzicatos, you can actually hear that more desks are playing. With 1st section instead, it's like there's always the first violin on top. That lead to a "smaller section sound" to my hears.
IMHO that's one of the things that gives realism and give you the large section feeling..


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Yes, isn't that nice to hear?
> 
> They didn't re-edit anything.


How do you know that?
I said I'm not sure of that, but I see now that the only chance is to download the complete 2nd violin section; you cannot download the update alone. That isn't a proof, but it's a tip.


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> IMHO that's one of the things that gives realism and give you the large section feeling..


variety is good


----------



## teclark7

Downloaded the Synchron Strings updated Violin 1 and new Violin 2 patches.

At the risk of going over old ground, here is a quick sketch of Jurassic Park theme to see what they sound like together:



Used the lyrical vibrato, normal legato patch, the MAIN mics only with LOUD dynamics matrix. Used CC for Vel X-Fade. I used some EQ (had to get rid of noise around 300Hz in particular) and then added some slight tape saturation and VSR S24 reverb tail. Can't wait for Synchron Player.


----------



## Casiquire

teclark7 said:


> Downloaded the Synchron Strings updated Violin 1 and new Violin 2 patches.
> 
> At the risk of going over old ground, here is a quick sketch of Jurassic Park theme to see what they sound like together:
> 
> 
> 
> Used the lyrical vibrato, normal legato patch, the MAIN mics only with LOUD dynamics matrix. Used CC for Vel X-Fade. I used some EQ (had to get rid of noise around 300Hz in particular) and then added some slight tape saturation and VSR S24 reverb tail. Can't wait for Synchron Player.




Oh no...It begins again...haha

It sounds rather static. If you hadn't mentioned using velocity crossfade I could believe there were no dynamic changes at all. There's no swelling, no breathing.


----------



## FriFlo

Critz said:


> My impression is that the samples choosen for Violin II are less "tight", there is a reasonable delay amongst players. If you play repetition note on 2nd pizzicatos, you can actually hear that more desks are playing. With 1st section instead, it's like there's always the first violin on top. That lead to a "smaller section sound" to my hears.
> IMHO that's one of the things that gives realism and give you the large section feeling..


I didn’t find the time to download the new Vl 2 samples yet, but if what you say is true, that sounds promising! I found the shorts to sharp, especially noticable in the higher dynamic layers. There have been many developers who recently added a tightness control. Pulled back, all samples start with a little bit of a delay, capturing the air before the attack. Pulling it up, you get very tight response for playing live. I find that the best compromise. I hope something like that will be available in the Synchron player, possibly also for the legatos. CSS has done it for legato and it works quite well once you understand how to apply it.


----------



## novaburst

teclark7 said:


> Downloaded the Synchron Strings updated Violin 1 and new Violin 2 patches.
> 
> At the risk of going over old ground, here is a quick sketch of Jurassic Park theme to see what they sound like together:
> 
> 
> 
> Used the lyrical vibrato, normal legato patch, the MAIN mics only with LOUD dynamics matrix. Used CC for Vel X-Fade. I used some EQ (had to get rid of noise around 300Hz in particular) and then added some slight tape saturation and VSR S24 reverb tail. Can't wait for Synchron Player.




It sounds like you can do a little better with the legato.



I think some don't understand that you can change the behaviour of the legato by setting it up in the player, and give countless variations, you can set up to play with out any cc, or set up to work with cc, or set up many different legato types for key switching the option are incredible just pick your poison.

Here is a nice legato set up to work with attack cc to give a swell.


----------



## Critz

FriFlo said:


> I didn’t find the time to download the new Vl 2 samples yet, but if what you say is true, that sounds promising! I found the shorts to sharp, especially noticable in the higher dynamic layers. There have been many developers who recently added a tightness control. Pulled back, all samples start with a little bit of a delay, capturing the air before the attack. Pulling it up, you get very tight response for playing live. I find that the best compromise. I hope something like that will be available in the Synchron player, possibly also for the legatos. CSS has done it for legato and it works quite well once you understand how to apply it.


Thightness control act on the attack as you suggest. But if samples choosen are to "accurate in timing" (like Syn Strings) or just the contrary (take Spitfire as example), you can't do much about that. Maybe you can act a bit stretching the sample, but byebye naturalness; you know that you can easily overdo with that tightness control.


----------



## FriFlo

Critz said:


> Thightness control act on the attack as you suggest. But if samples choosen are to "accurate in timing" (like Syn Strings) or just the contrary (take Spitfire as example), you can't do much about that. Maybe you can act a bit stretching the sample, but byebye naturalness; you know that you can easily overdo with that tightness control.


You think so? Interesting! I never had the impression, shorts could be played to accurately (unless they used robots)!  To me it rather sounded like there was a cut placed to late. But your theory could also be related to what I can just describe as the attacks sound unnatural to me, especially on the highest dynamic layers.
What you say makes sense to me in a way, that the samples could somehow be played during the session in a sweet spot between tight and sloppy (I agree that SF shorts without doubling are almost impossible to time correctly). In a performance as spiccato just doesn't sound like a bunch of guys waiting for the green light to play their one note ... I have no idea how you could get that performance from them, though.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Hi guys.

So, I jumped the gun and bought Synchron Strings to be able to form a qualified opinion and see what it is like.

Now, I have only played around for 10 minutes with the violas so far, so I haven't done any any actual music with the library yet, but I must say that some very basic, disturbing issues turned up right away.

Bear with me, if there is some setting I missed in Vienna Instruments, but unfortunately I think not.

OK now, I loaded up the Violas MID L+R Long Vib patch under Full Dynamics and applied velocity FX to CC1.

Then I set CC1 at 56 and just played some notes. After that I did the same thing with CC1 at 0 to get the softest dynamic. Attack is set to 0 so I get the "natural" (more on this a bit later) attack in the samples.

OK here is the resulting bounce:

http://www.simonravn.com/media/SY-Vlastest-attack0.mp3

The first playback at 56 which would equal around mp/mf has a very firm, non accented attack which makes good sense. But while it is not soooo obvious here as a bit later, I still think there is something fishy in the sound. Around half a second into each note, the sound changes volume and also the image is changed so the note shifts slightly in the stereo image.

Let's listen to the next ones at 0:17 onwards - the pp dynamic. A bit of the same going on.

OK then I thought that I would make the playing a bit more natural by adding a fake attack, so the notes are faded more in. I set attack to 75 which I found pretty good and this is the file:

http://www.simonravn.com/media/SY-Vlastest-attack75.mp3

First there is again CC1 at 56, then following CC1 at 0 and then I wanted to hear the ff dynamic so I turned it up to 127 for the last notes in this file.

Listen to the first 15 seconds - this volume jump/shift around the half second mark of each note becomes more apparent. Surely this can't be one sample playing, it must be a shorter attack edited onto a sustain, which doesn't match up 100% correctly and therefore results in these artifacts (volume/image change). With a natural fade on ONE sample, there wouldn't be this jump.

Now listen from 0:15-0:37 - again the jump in volume is very apparent. The notes do fade in more like you would if playing very soft notes in an ensemble, but this jump in volume ruins it all.

From 0:37-out there is also this jumpyness, but why I also included this was for the extreme bowing artifacts going on in the sound here. And these are not close mics but the decca tree so I am puzzled why this is so pronounced. It might not be a problem in a tutti setting though, but still.

I think this sample stitching issue is what I have been hearing in the demos by Guy Bacos and others which I couldn't put my finger on exactly, but really this seems to be the reason why all the sustains sound, well, wrong and fake in some way. But it seems that because they wanted round robins on the sustains (which I am all for!), they decided to record just the first portion of each note and stitch that onto one recorded sustain. Which of course is a time saver in the recordings but gives you these problems when editing the samples afterwards.

I know many libraries of course have just the first part of the note recorded for legato and then fades into a sustain, so this is a problem with other libraries as well. The problem HERE with Synchron though is that you have no way to play a clean, full sustained note as I see it. You will ALWAYS be playing a "stitched" sustain/legato note. With other libraries when you play non-legato you at least have the clean sustain to work with.

I know there are "soft attack versions" of the patches and they have included the natural attack of all the notes, which works better for soft playing, however the volume jump issue is still there in those samples.

As I don't know if these attack/legato samples have been edited destructively onto the sustains, I don't know if VSL could actually fix this in an update - OR if I missed a setting where I can turn off round robin and get to the actual raw, recorded sustain. But this is a major problem right away as I see it and you will hear this very clearly in anything that is mainly sustain strings/only sustain strings with this library.


----------



## Simon Ravn

On another, more positive note, I quickly tried the 1st violin patch, and I was actually happily surprised by the amount of vibrato in the samples! So I am not giving up this library just yet The clarity of the recordings, as I have also mentioned earlier, is really quite extraordinary too.


----------



## FriFlo

Good find, Simon. I had also found some issues with glueing attacks to sustains, but your observations make it pretty obvious from a perspective, I did not notice before. As I generally also like the sound of the recordings and IMO the first and easiest thing they could fix could be the shorts: what are your observations regarding those?


----------



## Critz

The recording clarity we all praise for is "responsable" for all this little issues that become so evident in this library. But if VSL decided to play with the "hardest settings" had to figure out how to solve all this. They wasn't expecting all these problems, that's for sure.


----------



## teclark7

Casiquire said:


> Oh no...It begins again...haha
> 
> It sounds rather static. If you hadn't mentioned using velocity crossfade I could believe there were no dynamic changes at all. There's no swelling, no breathing.



Casiquire, it sounds rather static because it was! I had accidentally deleted the CC data before I exported. I have redone it. Here is an updated version:



You can probably tell by now that this is new to me but I like the overall sound of the these new Violin patches. The challenge in getting the most out of the library is still in the programming (which I am new to) although I am hoping Synchron Player makes it easier. I am sure others will be able to do much better as Guy and others have demonstrated above already.


----------



## teclark7

novaburst said:


> It sounds like you can do a little better with the legato.
> 
> I think some don't understand that you can change the behaviour of the legato by setting it up in the player, and give countless variations, you can set up to play with out any cc, or set up to work with cc, or set up many different legato types for key switching the option are incredible just pick your poison.
> 
> Here is a nice legato set up to work with attack cc to give a swell.



Novaburst - for someone new to this, can you please explain what you are suggesting when you refer to "legato switching". In your screenshot, you have only one fast legato cell enabled. Are you talking about having more than one legato cell enabled and switching between them - eg from fast to normal to slow?

And when you mention changing the attack I presume you just assign a CC to the slider marked "Attack" and using that to create a swell on each note? (I am using "Expression" to create swells.) I will play around with what you suggest.


----------



## Critz

teclark7 said:


> Casiquire, it sounds rather static because it was! I had accidentally deleted the CC data before I exported. I have redone it. Here is an updated version:
> 
> 
> 
> You can probably tell by now that this is new to me but I like the overall sound of the these new Violin patches. The challenge in getting the most out of the library is still in the programming (which I am new to) although I am hoping Synchron Player makes it easier. I am sure others will be able to do much better as Guy and others have demonstrated above already.



Let's take just the first note. How that sounds to you? Is that a musical attack?


----------



## Critz

omiroad said:


> You haven't shared a single one of your own works yet jump on the chance to criticize what someone else did. :/


you are terribly wrong actually. I shared some short examples. I remember one for cellos. For sure 10 times better sounding than that. Do you want me to finally play this fantomatic JP theme? I'll do..


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

omiroad said:


> You haven't shared a single one of your own works yet jump on the chance to criticize what someone else did. :/



I guess that's why he calls himself "Critz" ...


----------



## Critz

I admit I plagiarzied Guy Bacos with the bunch of seconds of silence at the beginning.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jp_2nd-violin_no-rev-mp3.12108/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Eptesicus

Still think mine is the best 

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jp-ss-mp3.12114/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## novaburst

Simon Ravn said:


> As I don't know if these attack/legato samples have been edited destructively onto the sustains



Unlock your fader links and adjust your marcato attack or take it all the way out for smoother sustains and legatos

The left hand fader is to adjust your full sustains or legato, the right hand is to adjust your marcato attack that is layered on the sustains and legatos.


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> I admit I plagiarzied Guy Bacos with the bunch of seconds of silence at the beginning.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jp_2nd-violin_no-rev-mp3.12108/][/AUDIOPLUS]



This is better, don't know if you done some massaging there but it still seems your not taking advantage by adjusting the behaviour of your legato before you play your notes but it was glued together nice,


----------



## Critz

novaburst said:


> This is better, don't know if you done some massaging there but it still seems your not taking advantage by adjusting the behaviour of your legato before you play your notes but it was glued together nice,


Please explain "behaviour of the legato". Of course you can do better than that...but should we really need more than 10 minutes to program a melody like that one with the latest library out there? If so, something is wrong. And something is actually wrong.


----------



## novaburst

Critz said:


> Please explain "behaviour of the legato". Of course you can do better than that...but should we really need more than 10 minutes to program a melody like that one with the latest library out there? If so, something is wrong. And something is actually wrong.



You can save many of your settings for the same type of melody or phrases for the next compersition, so you may not always need to do that.

But if it means sitting better for a certain types of melody not sure if you can ask for more.

As i mentioned before mixing up different legato types by key switch means different variations of legatos for different sections of the piece, it's not that difficult and plus you can save it after.


----------



## Simon Ravn

FriFlo said:


> Good find, Simon. I had also found some issues with glueing attacks to sustains, but your observations make it pretty obvious from a perspective, I did not notice before. As I generally also like the sound of the recordings and IMO the first and easiest thing they could fix could be the shorts: what are your observations regarding those?



Hi.

I did a short mockup of the first part of a Michael Kamen track from The Iron Giant, because I think this would be a good way to test both the sustains and the shorts - and especially I think the clean sound of the staccatos/spiccatos in this track I thought Synchron could handle pretty well, as it is not a gritty sound which is going on here. I haven't really tested/tried the shorts apart from doing this mockup so I can't say for sure yet, but I think that they will work for some things - probably not for others.

Here is the original:



And here is the Synchron version (which is obviously still a far cry from the brilliant original track):

http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-VSL-MK-IronGiant.mp3

But I am happily surprised by the vibrato in the lyrical violins patches. I think my least favourite sustains are cellos and basses, which unfortunately sound pretty lifeless. I can't see the cellos working well for lyrical solo lines for instance.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I think your rendition sounds very good @Simon Ravn.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

@Simon Ravn that was wonderful. Truly impressive. I completely forgot to listen for midi-performance issues as I was swept along by your track. Very enjoyable to listen to. And isn't that really the point? To be able to produce something worth listening to? I wish you had kept going and finished the cue. Would have loved to hear how you would have handled it.

Question - did you have a score to work from, or did you transcribe this yourself?


----------



## novaburst

Simon Ravn said:


> track):
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-VSL-MK-IronGiant.mp3
> 
> But I am happily surprised by the vibrato in the lyrical violins patches.



Nice


----------



## Simon Ravn

Paul T McGraw said:


> @Simon Ravn that was wonderful. Truly impressive. I completely forgot to listen for midi-performance issues as I was swept along by your track. Very enjoyable to listen to. And isn't that really the point? To be able to produce something worth listening to? I wish you had kept going and finished the cue. Would have loved to hear how you would have handled it.
> 
> Question - did you have a score to work from, or did you transcribe this yourself?



Thanks. Yeah I should keep going, maybe I will finish it, I don't know. Some other things I want to try out as well first. No I didn't have the score, which also is why some instruments are missing - there is some harp/dampened piano thing going on as well that I can't really figure out what is, and the brass could surely be better too, I just chose some random stuff from Spitfire/Berlin more or less, as I don't really have a good template set up currently.


----------



## Simon Ravn

FriFlo, here is a short test of short notes.

http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-VSL-Shorts-test2.mp3

I would lie if I said it didn't require some tinkering and fiddling with velocity curves and velocities to try to get transitions from one dynamic to another to be smooth. They did this "harsh" thing to the short notes above a certain velocity, which of course is great to have, but they really should have done a separate "harsh" patch with more dynamics than just f-ff'ish, since the timbre etc. doesn't fit in with the rest of the shorts.

Another thing I noticed is there is a looooot of rosin/bowing noise in Synchron compared to many other libraries, even in the decca tree samples. That can be quite annoying in softer passages especially if you want just the clean string sound and not a whole bunch of frrrrrrrrrrrrrrr going along with it. I applied quite massive EQ'ing to get rid of as much of that as possible in these examples I did, and also there is a resonance sound around 450-540 hz on everything that is also problematic. I can't say that other libraries don't experience the same resonance though, usually in the lower mid frequencies. Seems like it is impossible to avoid, and it is only because we are stacking many samples on top of each other that it becomes a problem. But it does seem pretty loud in Synchron.


----------



## Critz

Simon Ravn said:


> FriFlo, here is a short test of short notes.
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-VSL-Shorts-test2.mp3
> 
> I would like if I said it didn't require some tinkering and fiddling with velocity curves and velocities to try to get transitions from one dynamic to another to be smooth. They did this "harsh" thing to the short notes above a certain velocity, which of course is great to have, but they really should have done a separate "harsh" patch with more dynamics than just f-ff'ish, since the timbre etc. doesn't fit in with the rest of the shorts.
> 
> Another thing I noticed is there is a looooot of rosin/bowing noise in Synchron compared to many other libraries, even in the decca tree samples. That can be quite annoying in softer passages especially if you want just the clean string sound and not a whole bunch of frrrrrrrrrrrrrrr going along with it. I applied quite massive EQ'ing to get rid of as much of that as possible in these examples I did, and also there is a resonance sound around 450-540 hz on everything that is also problematic. I can't say that other libraries don't experience the same resonance though, usually in the lower mid frequencies. Seems like it is impossible to avoid, and it is only because we are stacking many samples on top of each other that it becomes a problem. But it does seem pretty loud in Synchron.



In fact those 8 velocity layers in shorts works more like "extended roundrobins" than like velocity layers. You don't have a proper pp staccato for example. It starts p and goes to mf f and ff. And to be honest the fff of some library is has more harsh than Synchron, at least for violins. Cellos and Basses are great.


----------



## FriFlo

Simon Ravn said:


> FriFlo, here is a short test of short notes.
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-VSL-Shorts-test2.mp3
> 
> I would like if I said it didn't require some tinkering and fiddling with velocity curves and velocities to try to get transitions from one dynamic to another to be smooth. They did this "harsh" thing to the short notes above a certain velocity, which of course is great to have, but they really should have done a separate "harsh" patch with more dynamics than just f-ff'ish, since the timbre etc. doesn't fit in with the rest of the shorts.
> 
> Another thing I noticed is there is a looooot of rosin/bowing noise in Synchron compared to many other libraries, even in the decca tree samples. That can be quite annoying in softer passages especially if you want just the clean string sound and not a whole bunch of frrrrrrrrrrrrrrr going along with it. I applied quite massive EQ'ing to get rid of as much of that as possible in these examples I did, and also there is a resonance sound around 450-540 hz on everything that is also problematic. I can't say that other libraries don't experience the same resonance though, usually in the lower mid frequencies. Seems like it is impossible to avoid, and it is only because we are stacking many samples on top of each other that it becomes a problem. But it does seem pretty loud in Synchron.


Thanks for doing such a detailed test! Indeed, the harsh layer not really fitting to the other layers in terms of timbre could indeed be the main reason that something does not feel quite right when playing them live. Different options like you describe could be a solution to this problem as well as adjusting the overall dynamic range and velocity curve (both already possible with VIpro and probably Synchron player as well). Yet, in your mockup, you have only continuous repetitions, which is where the other problem I found out - the sample cut being IMO to late into the attack phase of the sample - does not disturb me. My main problem is, if you want to play some single shorts (with more or less long pauses after that) - especially accented ones. Here, the start of the sample strikes me as feeling a bit unnatural, especially on the loudest dynamics playing chords. Is that just me, or do you hear the same thing?


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Simon Ravn said:


> FriFlo, here is a short test of short notes.
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/SR-VSL-Shorts-test2.mp3
> 
> I would like if I said it didn't require some tinkering and fiddling with velocity curves and velocities to try to get transitions from one dynamic to another to be smooth. They did this "harsh" thing to the short notes above a certain velocity, which of course is great to have, but they really should have done a separate "harsh" patch with more dynamics than just f-ff'ish, since the timbre etc. doesn't fit in with the rest of the shorts.
> 
> Another thing I noticed is there is a looooot of rosin/bowing noise in Synchron compared to many other libraries, even in the decca tree samples. That can be quite annoying in softer passages especially if you want just the clean string sound and not a whole bunch of frrrrrrrrrrrrrrr going along with it. I applied quite massive EQ'ing to get rid of as much of that as possible in these examples I did, and also there is a resonance sound around 450-540 hz on everything that is also problematic. I can't say that other libraries don't experience the same resonance though, usually in the lower mid frequencies. Seems like it is impossible to avoid, and it is only because we are stacking many samples on top of each other that it becomes a problem. But it does seem pretty loud in Synchron.



I liked your test example sound. Are you saying you are not happy with this sound?

Would really appreciate a picture of your EQ curve. I have been trying to match the tone with classical recordings using EQ and came up with this one.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2esyr4s6mhqpnhg/Screenshot 2018-02-10 09.35.01.png?dl=0

But I have old ears, and this may not be ideal.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Paul T McGraw said:


> I liked your test example sound. Are you saying you are not happy with this sound?
> 
> Would really appreciate a picture of your EQ curve. I have been trying to match the tone with classical recordings using EQ and came up with this one.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2esyr4s6mhqpnhg/Screenshot 2018-02-10 09.35.01.png?dl=0
> 
> But I have old ears, and this may not be ideal.



No, I am fairly happy with the results here. But the transition between the velocity layers is not as smooth as you could have hoped with the amount of layers. And then yes, the tone is almost TOO clean - works for what I have done here, but could use some more oomph! for other styles. Also the high violin notes are pretty lifeless and metallic because they are so "perfect", so they will also have limited use.

EQ curve looks like this, for violins+violas in the Iron Giant demo (a bit different in the short notes one where I also removed hall resonance from 1st+2nd vlns separately):


----------



## Paul T McGraw

Simon Ravn said:


> No, I am fairly happy with the results here. But the transition between the velocity layers is not as smooth as you could have hoped with the amount of layers. And then yes, the tone is almost TOO clean - works for what I have done here, but could use some more oomph! for other styles. Also the high violin notes are pretty lifeless and metallic because they are so "perfect", so they will also have limited use.
> 
> EQ curve looks like this, for violins+violas in the Iron Giant demo (a bit different in the short notes one where I also removed hall resonance from 1st+2nd vlns separately):



Thanks for sharing your EQ curve. The two cuts in the 2k to 3k range make sense to me. The cuts in the 400 to 600 range I would have never thought of trying. I am going to give your cuts a try and see if I like the result.

I agree that the velocity layers often seem less smooth than I would have expected. At the moment I am planning to use SyS doubled by VSL orchestral strings mixed 50/50. The weaknesses of each library are sort of matched in the strength of the other. For example, the VSL orchestral strings have a very, very smooth legato. And so far, I have found that I almost always prefer doubling two string libraries.

I just hope that VSL releases the full viola and bass patches soon.


----------



## novaburst

Paul T McGraw said:


> I liked your test example sound. Are you saying you are not happy with this sound?
> 
> Would really appreciate a picture of your EQ curve. I have been trying to match the tone with classical recordings using EQ and came up with this one.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2esyr4s6mhqpnhg/Screenshot 2018-02-10 09.35.01.png?dl=0
> 
> But I have old ears, and this may not be ideal.



Fabfilter Pro Q haha @Paul T McGraw that is some heavy weight EQ you have there.



Simon Ravn said:


>



Wow I am just loving these EQs Dang !


----------



## Casiquire

novaburst said:


> Fabfilter Pro Q haha @Paul T McGraw that is some heavy weight EQ you have there.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow I am just loving these EQs Dang !



Were you being silly here or do you mean you like FabFilter? I for one love it!


----------



## novaburst

Casiquire said:


> Were you being silly here or do you mean you like FabFilter? I for one love it!



I think it always surprises me when i see what tools users have, 

Only used FF PQ on demo a while back but never pulled the trigger, but many do use it and it is highly rated.

Again the UAD Cambridge EQ a very high end product, used by many pros.


----------



## Casiquire

novaburst said:


> I think it always surprises me when i see what tools users have,
> 
> Only used FF PQ on demo a while back but never pulled the trigger, but many do use it and it is highly rated.
> 
> Again the UAD Cambridge EQ a very high end product, used by many pros.



FF makes some of the easiest user interfaces but still manage to cram in just about every requested feature with a transparent and consistent sound. ProQ and ProC have really won me over to the brand.

But you're right there's something really cool about seeing what other people use and why. Is the UAD your preferred?

Speaking of effects, I wonder if VSL can make a preset for MIR where you can plug in Synchron Strings and it's smart enough to not add any room. And then you can move the players around lol. That would be really cool. Or even just if they make MIR mic presets to match the setups used to record the library.


----------



## novaburst

Casiquire said:


> s the UAD your preferred?



I just watch what the pros use i do not own any UAD my self it's just a fascination of what others have,



Casiquire said:


> , I wonder if VSL can make a preset for MIR where you can plug in Synchron Strings and it's smart enough to not add any room. And then you can move the players around lol.



I did see section placement on one of the images, weather this will bare fruit or not i am not sure, there Will be an eq, and filter.

But yes it is a good opportunity to do what what ever enhancements you can to set up a great new player. the


----------



## jamwerks

Those are some massive cut's there. Minus 12db


----------



## Guy Bacos

I'm updating the mix, and with the addition of the 2nd violins. 

Capricious Waltz (Mix 3)


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Guy Bacos said:


> I'm updating the mix, and with the addition of the 2nd violins.
> 
> Capricious Waltz (Mix 3)



Just listened and it is definitely an approvement to the previous version. Your mockup skills are really great and I appreciate your work and dedication. PS: And such a cool track. Chapeau.


----------



## Guy Bacos

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Just listened and it is definitely an approvement to the previous version. Your mockup skills are really great and I appreciate your work and dedication. PS: And such a cool track. Chapeau.



Thanks Alexander I appreciate this, especially coming from someone of your chops! 

Just the 2nd violins legatos added so much more flexibility, so I imagine legato violas will be just as welcomed.


----------



## C-Wave

Violas Complete and Strings V5 (i.e. incl. violas) are out.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

SyS has the best sounding violas period!


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

2018 is off to a roaring start for string libraries.

Black Friday should be interesting this year.

_premature?_ perhaps.


----------



## Eptesicus

I wish they would hurry up with the Synchron player so i can get using these. I'm not bothering to get back into using them with vienna instruments just for that to be replaced in a few weeks.


----------



## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> I wish they would hurry up with the Synchron player so i can get using these. I'm not bothering to get back into using them with vienna instruments just for that to be replaced in a few weeks.



I think we will see it during April, or May the latest. (Fingers Crossed it's not later than that). 

I'm also waiting for the entire Synchron Strings (full) Library version to be complete, and Synchron Player released, before I bother installing it.


----------



## Vik

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> SyS has the best sounding violas period!


Are there any in depth demos of these anywhere?

I think I've only heard this:


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> SyS has the best sounding violas period!



The Violas does sound sweet, but the star of the show has got to be the violins, I think the library has come together very well, a very solid sound front row sound just the basses to complete.



Paul T McGraw said:


> At the moment I am planning to use SyS doubled by VSL orchestral strings mixed 50/50. The weaknesses of each library are sort of matched in the strength of the other. For example, the VSL orchestral strings have a very, very smooth legato. And so far, I have found that I almost always prefer doubling two string libraries.



This is the only library that I find I feel does not need layering, but is does go well with orchestral Strings, even the SE version.

The texture is very pleasing but perhaps not At 50/50


----------



## Vovique

I couldn't get past the intro 10 seconds, that really hurts


----------



## Guy Bacos

Vik said:


> Are there any in depth demos of these anywhere?
> 
> I think I've only heard this:




I think you've got some mix issues for the harmonic section, the rest sounds good.


----------



## muziksculp

omiroad said:


> From the VSL Community:



Hi,

Based on Paul's response, it seem like he doesn't feel there is anything wrong with the current Legato System of Synchron Strings, which I'm guessing might be the case, maybe the issue is more with how to use their Legatos correctly to achieve smooth transitions at various dynamics, ..etc. maybe not using it properly could result in bumpy legatos transitions (which I feel is the type of issues audible in some user demos), But, if that's not true, and there is room for improving the current Legato-System, then maybe a more detailed reply from Paul, explaining his view on the current Legato system's quality, and flexibility would be helpful. 

Since I don't have any experience with Synchron Strings (yet), I have no way at evaluating it at this time.

So.. Let's wait and see what happens when they release the Synchron Player.

Q. Is the (full) Synchron Strings library sample content complete now ? or are we still missing some sample content i.e. various Legatos, or .... ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> Q. Is the (full) Synchron Strings library sample content complete now ? or are we still missing some sample content i.e. various Legatos, or .... ?



We are still waiting for the basses.



muziksculp said:


> Based on Paul's response, it seem like he doesn't feel there is anything wrong with the current Legato System of Synchron Strings,



Absolutely nothing wrong with it, must say i am not a legato expert but when used up against other string legatos SyS is the way to go.



muziksculp said:


> maybe the issue is more with how to use their Legatos correctly to achieve smooth transitions at various dynamics, ..etc. maybe not using it properly could result in bumpy legatos transitions (



Nailed it, while some may not agree there are some legatos that can be used write off the bat, but to me and i say again to me, where SyS shines is how you can tune or edit any legato to play any line, 

Be it with or without cc, once your happy with what you have, save it and name it and use it.

Collect and go crazy edit for key switch, when you get used to this way of using legato you want want to go back to the old way, you simply have any type of legato you want.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

The SyS legato cheat sheet:

1) use the soft legato patch. Adjust legato blur to taste (middle of the road is good).
2) view the standard "legato" patch as a "detache" or "bow change" type patch for stuff that's too agile for other string libraries.
3) Slur and fast legato are self-explanatory (use sparingly).
4) Xfade from noVib to Vib / from Vib to lyrical Vib.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @novaburst ,

Thanks for the feedback. 

OK, so only waiting for the Basses now. Good to know.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Sovereign

novaburst said:


> Absolutely nothing wrong with it, must say i am not a legato expert but when used up against other string legatos SyS is the way to go.


I really have a hard time taking you seriously when you write stuff like this. No one in their right mind would seriously claim that one particular library trumps every other on the planet. That's why I own several, even great libraries have their flaws and limitations. And no, synchron legato is not without problems. Denying this makes you look fanboyish.


----------



## muziksculp

@Sovereign , It is clear you think there is an issue with Synch. Strings Legato functionality, I have no clue if it has or it doesn't have these issues because I have not tried using this library yet.

Have you emailed Paul at VSL to inform him about the issues with this library you have encountered, and feel need to be improved or fixed, i.e. Legato functionality or any other issues you might have with it ?

If you have not, I urge you or any other user that finds issues using this library to contact VSL, and inform them of the issue/s , they are very good at trying to fix, or help you sort issues, or improve their product if it is a product issue.


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> I really have a hard time taking you seriously when you write stuff like this. No one in their right mind would seriously claim that one particular library trumps every other on the planet. That's why I own several, even great libraries have their flaws and limitations. And no, synchron legato is not without problems. Denying this makes you look fanboyish.



I am not sure if its fanboy I just like the way I can handle the legato in this library, an example would be is I was playing a few lines with SyS I also have orchestral string on the next track, I was just playing the same lines with the two library's but I found myself wanting to use the same type of legato in orchestral strings but could not,

The tweaking capability just was not there,

Be it as it may, I really believe the SyS strings is the way to go and that 4real, perhaps some want get there head around it and prefer a familiar legato system, I just think VSL has done a great job, and any developer that pushes the bar will get my attention its that simple. 



Sovereign said:


> No one in their right mind would seriously claim that one particular library trumps every other on the planet.



I have not got every library on the planet, I don't even have the bulk of VSL string library, but as far as what I have SyS trumps my arsenal.

All in all your quote is a little inaccurate, but I can understand I really do like what VSL are doing, may I ask what strings are you using for your work or what strings you prefer to use at the moment.


----------



## Sovereign

novaburst said:


> I have not got every library on the planet, I don't even have the bulk of VSL string library, but as far as what I have SyS trumps my arsenal.


Ah but that's different, I would not object if that is what you meant to say. It's bedtime here, will get back to your other point tomorrow.


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> Ah but that's different, I would not object if that is what you meant to say. It's bedtime here, will get back to your other point tomorrow.



Please remember my question your main library (strings)


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The SyS legato cheat sheet:
> 
> 1) use the soft legato patch. Adjust legato blur to taste (middle of the road is good).
> 2) view the standard "legato" patch as a "detache" or "bow change" type patch for stuff that's too agile for other string libraries.
> 3) Slur and fast legato are self-explanatory (use sparingly).
> 4) Xfade from noVib to Vib / from Vib to lyrical Vib.




Which also means:

1) soft legato patch is the only one with a minimum of musicality and the one you will use 99% of the time
2) standard legato works for detached or bow change
3) Slur is something that nice to have but that absolutely can't work for portato as well, fast legato is way to clean to achieve nice results. That makes at least fast legato or normal legato a waste of memory.


----------



## maestro2be

I wanted to try something new for me entirely for the sake of having fun and not feeling pressure. I think this is at least a different way to use them than what I have heard so far.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> That makes at least fast legato or normal legato a waste of memory.



I guess this makes some kind of sense in your own head.


----------



## FabioA

I had the pleasure to take care of the soundtrack for this teaser. It's a launch trailer for the new StudioDesk flagship; the new Desk is called Enterprise, because of its shape resembling the famous spacecraft..that's why I played with the theme Giacchino scored for the Star Trek reboot.
Other than (of course) Synchron Strings, you have the chance to listen to other VSL products like Synchron Celesta and Dimension Brass ! & II (still my favorites).

StudioDesk - Enterprise (Video)

If you want to listen to the soundtrack alone:

StudioDesk - Enterprise (without voiceover)


----------



## Guy Bacos

Hope you enjoy this suspense piece, with synchron strings and some synchron perc. + harp.

Indecision

Indecision 2 (closer mic)


----------



## novaburst

Nice story @Guy Bacos some nice expressive suspense.


----------



## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> Hope you enjoy this suspense piece, with synchron strings and some synchron perc. + harp.
> 
> Indecision



Hi Guy,

Thank You Very Much for posting, and sharing this Very Nice Piece of Suspense music with us.

It reminded me a little bit of Bernard Herman's style of string writing, interesting, and rich harmonic progressions, and very nice orchestration for strings.

I just wished there was a bit more of an aggressive/biting style violin and viola timbres at some points of the track, I mean a bit more of that bow scrape timbre used in suspense movie music, not sure if that was possible via another mic option, or something related to the dynamics, or specific articulations used, but I really enjoyed listening to this very entertaining suspense style track. imho. The Legato of the higher string lines is super smooth, and realistic sounding. No issues at all with abrupt jumps in the legato notes, everything sounded very natural.

Very Well Done.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Guy Bacos

muziksculp said:


> Hi Guy,
> 
> Thank You Very Much for posting, and sharing this Very Nice Piece of Suspense music with us.
> 
> It reminded me a little bit of Bernard Herman's style of string writing, interesting, and rich harmonic progressions, and very nice orchestration for strings.
> 
> I just wished there was a bit more of an aggressive/biting style violin and viola timbres at some points of the track, I mean a bit more of that bow scrape timbre used in suspense movie music, not sure if that was possible via another mic option, or something related to the dynamics, or specific articulations used, but I really enjoyed listening to this very entertaining suspense style track. imho. The Legato of the higher string lines is super smooth, and realistic sounding. No issues at all with abrupt jumps in the legato notes, everything sounded very natural.
> 
> Very Well Done.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Thanks Muziksculp! For sure that could be a different mix, increasing the volume of the close mix and you'd get exactly what you are asking. The only thing is to balance it so it doesn't get too aggressive, but it's worth a try, I'll be curious if others wish for the same thing.


----------



## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> Thanks Muziksculp! For sure that could be a different mix, increasing the volume of the close mix and you'd get exactly what you are asking. The only thing is to balance it so it doesn't get too aggressive, but it's worth a try, I'll be curious if others wish for the same thing.



Hi Guy,

Thanks for the valuable feedback regarding increasing the volume of the close mix to add more definition, and a bit more of the scrape, and biting timbre of the higher strings. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## The Darris

So, I spoke with VSL back when their Synchron Perc released. They were interested in me doing a review of the new series when the new player releases. I don't know if that's still on the table but every now and then I check back in and see what's going on with the user base. So far, I have to admit and I mean no ill-feelings towards those involved, that the the demos are very weak. I don't know if that is composer capabilities or library limitations. Knowing @Guy Bacos ' demos that I've heard in the past, it very much seems a limitation on the library's part. Could this be the need of Strings II or just better programming on VSL's part? Just some observations I've made over the last few months since Strings I released and after catching up in this thread tonight. 

I'm a percussionist and I will admit that their Percussion library is by far the most comprehensive orchestral percussion library, period. But....that sterile quality that is reminiscent of their dry libraries comes to mind when I hear the demos. It's just too clean to me. To each their own though. I am really curious how fun it is to play with this library. Some libraries I use in my workflow are the worst to program but they get great results whereas others are loads of fun to play with but get mediocre results. I wonder where the Synchron Series falls on that spectrum? 

-C


----------



## Guy Bacos

Muziksculp, I added a 2nd mix increasing the closer mic a bit. It may have its pros and cons.


----------



## C-Wave

Guy Bacos said:


> Muziksculp, I added a 2nd mix increasing the closer mic a bit. It may have its pros and cons.


Liked the second mix more.. more lively. Thanks for contributing great music to this forum.


----------



## novaburst

C-Wave said:


> Liked the second mix more.. more lively. Thanks for contributing great music to this forum.



Nice work, just want to say the piece really gets me involved, some great orchestration you really know how to work SyS.


----------



## FabioA

I admit my system is a bit limited with 32gbs of ram...but I really hope the new player will come with a feature like "purge all samples" as in Kontakt (it's the first time I miss a Kontakt feature..).
Disabling cells/enabling on midi activities is absolutely not the same thing..


----------



## Symfoniq

The Darris said:


> So, I spoke with VSL back when their Synchron Perc released. They were interested in me doing a review of the new series when the new player releases. I don't know if that's still on the table but every now and then I check back in and see what's going on with the user base. So far, I have to admit and I mean no ill-feelings towards those involved, that the the demos are very weak. I don't know if that is composer capabilities or library limitations. Knowing @Guy Bacos ' demos that I've heard in the past, it very much seems a limitation on the library's part. Could this be the need of Strings II or just better programming on VSL's part? Just some observations I've made over the last few months since Strings I released and after catching up in this thread tonight.
> 
> I'm a percussionist and I will admit that their Percussion library is by far the most comprehensive orchestral percussion library, period. But....that sterile quality that is reminiscent of their dry libraries comes to mind when I hear the demos. It's just too clean to me. To each their own though. I am really curious how fun it is to play with this library. Some libraries I use in my workflow are the worst to program but they get great results whereas others are loads of fun to play with but get mediocre results. I wonder where the Synchron Series falls on that spectrum?
> 
> -C



I agree, but I definitely _don't _think the problem is Guy. His compositions demonstrate a lot of skill.


----------



## Critz

Guy Bacos said:


> Hope you enjoy this suspense piece, with synchron strings and some synchron perc. + harp.
> 
> Indecision
> 
> Indecision 2 (closer mic)



Staccatos, pizzicatos, tremolos.. everything pretty great. And the composition has some real great moments, my favorite is from 4:30 to 5:00.
All attacks, sforzatos, most of the legatos... totally midish. 
P.s. it's just me or the harp has really too much reverb?


----------



## C-Wave

Critz said:


> Staccatos, pizzicatos, tremolos.. everything pretty great. And the composition has some real great moments, my favorite is from 4:30 to 5:00.
> All attacks, sforzatos, most of the legatos... totally midish.
> P.s. it's just me or the harp has really too much reverb?


that’s it Critz you’re joining my ignore list. thanks to you i’m starting to lose confidence in my ears.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

C-Wave said:


> that’s it Critz you’re joining my ignore list. thanks to you i’m starting to lose confidence in my ears.



That's called FUD in public relations lingo, don't fall for his clowning.


----------



## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> Muziksculp, I added a 2nd mix increasing the closer mic a bit. It may have its pros and cons.



Hi Guy,

I just had a chance to listen to the 2nd mix, it surely has more texture, and bite than the first mix, I like it  

Thank you,
Muziksculp


----------



## Critz

C-Wave said:


> that’s it Critz you’re joining my ignore list. thanks to you i’m starting to lose confidence in my ears.


I have no doubts you need so little to lose confidence in you..


----------



## The Darris

Symfoniq said:


> I agree, but I definitely _don't _think the problem is Guy. His compositions demonstrate a lot of skill.


Exactly what I was saying. He's a solid composer and mock up producer as I've listened to his work for years now. But, even in his composition he's shared here, the library is lacking a quality that, to me, struggles to compete with a lot of older libraries at this point. 

The one thing that really stands put to me is how thin and synthesque the hi strings sound in the higher dynamics, this is a common issue with samples, especially if you eq out the low end frequency build up from room sound. I'm curious if VSL has done something to counteract the room noise? Not that that's a bad thing, just a method I don't care touch for.


----------



## muziksculp

@Critz ,

Obviously you dislike this library, may I ask why the are you are still hanging out on this thread ? Do you get a kick out of posting negative comments ? 

I really don't understand your motive, you surely don't fancy Synchron Strings, so why not just move on ? We already got your message.


----------



## Critz

The Darris said:


> Exactly what I was saying. He's a solid composer and mock up producer as I've listened to his work for years now. But, even in his composition he's shared here, the library is lacking a quality that, to me, struggles to compete with a lot of older libraries at this point.
> 
> The one thing that really stands put to me is how thin and synthesque the hi strings sound in the higher dynamics, this is a common issue with samples, especially if you eq out the low end frequency build up from room sound. I'm curious if VSL has done something to counteract the room noise? Not that that's a bad thing, just a method I don't care touch for.


I hope you will not named troll just because you're writing reasonable criticisms.


----------



## Critz

muziksculp said:


> @Critz ,
> 
> Obviously you dislike this library, may I ask why the are you are still hanging out on this thread ? Do you get a kick out of posting negative comments ?
> 
> I really don't understand your motive, you surely don't fancy Synchron Strings, so why not just move on ? We already got your message.


I paid for it and I'm using it. AFAIK I have the right to write here. I posted examples, I proved I know what I'm talking about when it comes to VSL products. Many of you can't tell the same.


----------



## muziksculp

Critz said:


> I paid for it and I'm using it. AFAIK I have the right to write here. I posted examples, I proved I know what I'm talking about when it comes to VSL products. Many of you can't tell the same.



Yes, you have the right to post here, but your constant, and repetitive focus on the negative is what I'm referring to here, you are free to post a million negative comments, but it becomes tiring, and tasteless at some point. Maybe you don't realize that.


----------



## Critz

muziksculp said:


> Yes, you have the right to post here, but your constant, and repetitive focus on the negative is what I'm referring to here, you are free to post a million negative comments, but it becomes tiring, and tasteless at some point. Maybe you don't realize that.


I can assure you , if @Guy Bacos will post a demo where Strings are at least au pair with the rest of sections, in terms of realism and musicality, I'll destroy my keyboard writing compliments.


----------



## Symfoniq

The Darris said:


> Exactly what I was saying. He's a solid composer and mock up producer as I've listened to his work for years now. But, even in his composition he's shared here, the library is lacking a quality that, to me, struggles to compete with a lot of older libraries at this point.
> 
> The one thing that really stands put to me is how thin and synthesque the hi strings sound in the higher dynamics, this is a common issue with samples, especially if you eq out the low end frequency build up from room sound. I'm curious if VSL has done something to counteract the room noise? Not that that's a bad thing, just a method I don't care touch for.



I think all VSL string libraries have a "high strings problem" (I own them all except Chamber Strings). I was hoping that Synchron Strings would make that a thing of the past, but you're right, it's still there, and still synthy.

Multiple mic positions and hundreds of gigabytes of samples don't seem to have fixed my biggest complaint about VSL strings. Now that VSL has confirmed that the Synchron Player won't change the sound or programming of the samples, I think it's time for me to move on.


----------



## muziksculp

Critz said:


> I can assure you , if @Guy Bacos will post a demo where Strings are at least au pair with the rest of sections, in terms of realism and musicality, I'll destroy my keyboard writing compliments.



Maybe you should consider destroying your keyboard, so you won't post any more negative comments until you hear something you like to comment positively on. You don't seem to get the message that it is getting tasteless and un-necessary to keep posting your negative comments.


----------



## ctsai89

muziksculp said:


> Yes, you have the right to post here, but your constant, and repetitive focus on the negative is what I'm referring to here, you are free to post a million negative comments, but it becomes tiring, and tasteless at some point. Maybe you don't realize that.


since you started this thread I would say it in some way belongs to you.

But personally I like critz's comments, both negative and positive ones. 

And they could be good for health sometimes too


----------



## Critz

I would like to see some moderarion for all these funny comments against me. Actually I don't mind at all, but I don't see why I have to me moderated if I say noob to someone, but they can treat me like a troll or a stupid.


----------



## ka00

Critz said:


> I would like to see some moderarion for all these funny comments against me. Actually I don't mind at all, but I don't see why I have to me moderated if I say noob to someone, but they can treat me like a troll or a stupid.



Hey Critz,

Maybe this is a stupid analogy, but I wonder if it would help to think for a second of this Synchron announcement thread as if it were a new restaurant opening; at least just to try and understand the human/social element of what's going on here.

Imagine people were invited to come in and sample the food at this new Synchron restaurant. Some liked it, some didn't. Some wrote glowing reviews. Some wrote scathing ones. And now that it's been open for a while, the people who love this restaurant -- the regular patrons -- just want to keep coming back to hang out and eat in peace, without the same reviewers coming back in, testing the same dish and constantly giving it the same bad review out loud for all to hear. It's the last thing they want when they're trying to savour their meal.


----------



## novaburst

ctsai89 said:


> since you started this thread I would say it in some way belongs to you.
> 
> But personally I like critz's comments, both negative and positive ones.
> 
> And they could be good for health sometimes too



But would you say any to differ from your stance and alliance with critical ducumentation against VSL SyS as the whole furom knows and understand you don't like there products (strings) so not only Critz but any one that slams VSL is OK in your eyes.

You see there is a problem here, and a big one, there are many that perhaps don't like SyS and the rest of VSL string line and they may leave a negative comment here and there then they go and move on to a different library and get on with there life. 

There is a disturbing vibe from the likes of your self Critz and maybe one or two other who feel they need to keep coming back to show support against VSL every time there is something negative that is said you show up to give support, every time @Guy Bacos creates a wonderful piece of music Critz shows up to show negative vibes, now if you don't believe that is disturbing then you need to see a doctor, 

Know one in there right mind would tag along and show up each time a piece is written just to give negative feedback for such a long time and in your case suddenly showing up to support such a behaviour, 

Something is got to be wrong inside to carry on such a behavioural pattern for so long. 

Some just want to enjoy the music that @Guy Bacos has taken so much of his own time to share with the thread and we need to give it up for this man and show a little respect and restraint, 

He has lead the way and showd great resilience in the face of great criticism and still knocking master pieces that hardly know one can touch in skill, feel, music, and realizem, he has made these strings stand out. 

Some have said to the slammers move on get over it, find or use another library there is just no need for this behaviour anymore just let it go. 

If VSL has done you harm take it up with them by email. Now you are just beginning to sound not quite right in the head 

So please let it go and stop harming your self,


----------



## ctsai89

novaburst said:


> But would you say any to differ from your stance and alliance with critical ducumentation against VSL SyS as the whole furom knows and understand you don't like there products (strings) so not only Critz but any one that slams VSL is OK in your eyes.
> 
> You see there is a problem here, and a big one, there are many that perhaps don't like SyS and the rest of VSL string line and they may leave a negative comment here and there then they go and move on to a different library and get on with there life.
> 
> There is a disturbing vibe from the likes of your self Critz and maybe one or two other who feel they need to keep coming back to show support against VSL every time there is something negative that is said you show up to give support, every time @Guy Bacos creates a wonderful piece of music Critz shows up to show negative vibes, now if you don't believe that is disturbing then you need to see a doctor,
> 
> Know one in there right mind would tag along and show up each time a piece is written just to give negative feedback for such a long time and in your case suddenly showing up to support such a behaviour,
> 
> Something is got to be wrong inside to carry on such a behavioural pattern for so long.
> 
> Some just want to enjoy the music that @Guy Bacos has taken so much of his own time to share with the thread and we need to give it up for this man and show a little respect and restraint,
> 
> He has lead the way and showd great resilience in the face of great criticism and still knocking master pieces that hardly know one can touch in skill, feel, music, and realizem, he has made these strings stand out.
> 
> Some have said to the slammers move on get over it, find or use another library there is just no need for this behaviour anymore just let it go.
> 
> If VSL has done you harm take it up with them by email. Now you are just beginning to sound not quite right in the head
> 
> So please let it go and stop harming your self,


Oh hmm didn't know I harmed myself at all or it was painless


----------



## FriFlo

ka00 said:


> Hey Critz,
> 
> Maybe this is a stupid analogy, but I wonder if it would help to think for a second of this Synchron announcement thread as if it were a new restaurant opening; at least just to try and understand the human/social element of what's going on here.
> 
> Imagine people were invited to come in and sample the food at this new Synchron restaurant. Some liked it, some didn't. Some wrote glowing reviews. Some wrote scathing ones. And now that it's been open for a while, the people who love this restaurant -- the regular patrons -- just want to keep coming back to hang out and eat in peace, without the same reviewers coming back in, testing the same dish and constantly giving it the same bad review out loud for all to hear. It's the last thing they want when they're trying to savour their meal.


That is a very nice analogy, but I would like to expand on it just a little: Imagine the restaurant tester would quietly discuss his bad reviews with some guests sitting at his table who are interested in his opinion. Yet, some guests just can't stand the fact, that this person keeps spreading an opposite view than their own. So, every time they see him there, they come close to his table, listen to his words and then shout at him and his guests that he is an idiot. Just to make sure ... Of course, these guys could do it like the rest of the forum ... uh ... restaurant visitors and just ignore him, as they already decided, that they do like the food.
I am not pointing fingers at anyone ... but as much as I don't understand how many times Critz has to restate his opinion (even though I agree with him partly), I also find it strange how many people here can't just accept his different opinion. After all, we are talking about a sample library here, not about REALLY important stuff ...
This thread could almost be titled "Critz and his opponents" or something like that. I think some guys here could relax a bit and keep posting their own thoughts about Synchron strings. If I were to start I fight with everyone who I disagree with, I would have to post all day, I guess ...


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

FriFlo said:


> I also find it strange how many people here can't just accept his different opinion.



That's easy to explain. It's not because of his "opinion", but because it's clearly obvious to everyone that he's a troll who gets a kick out of being a jerk.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

omiroad said:


> It's time to stop.



Whatever dude. Don't tell that to _me_. One guy has made it his personal mission to dump on and derail this thread for 2 months and when people finally get fed up with his crap, then it's suddenly time to stop. No man. I'll tell you what time it is. It's time for the professional troll to get himself a real job or start doing something otherwise productive with his life - preferably not in this thread. Telling it like it is.


----------



## FriFlo

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> That's easy to explain. It's not because of his "opinion", but because it's clearly obvious to everyone that he's a troll who gets a kick out of being a jerk.


You (and others) derail this thread at least as much as he does by paying it way to much tribute! Calling someone a troll is easy but it is not helping. Only people with no argument left do that. I told you before: You are on the one side of the spectrum (regarding Synchron Strings) and Critz on the opposite side, while I am sort of in the middle. There is no problem with that full spectrum being visible here in this thread, including some harsh or sarcastic statements. What you don't understand is: if you keep calling someone a troll, that person might get stubborn in persisting in his point, as nobody likes to be shut down like that!


----------



## FriFlo

omiroad said:


> It's time to stop.


Exactly!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

FriFlo said:


> You (and others) derail this thread at least as much as he does by paying it way to much tribute! Calling someone a troll is easy but it is not helping. Only people with no argument left do that. I told you before: You are on the one side of the spectrum (regarding Synchron Strings) and Critz on the opposite side, while I am sort of in the middle. There is no problem with that full spectrum being visible here in this thread, including some harsh or sarcastic statements. What you don't understand is: if you keep calling someone a troll, that person might get stubborn in persisting in his point, as nobody likes to be shut down like that!



What "argument"? What point about me thinking that another person is trolling for the sake of it am I supposed to "argue"? You also clearly haven't paid much attention if you locate me on the opposite side of the spectrum. On the VSL forums, I've been scolded by some for being critical about this library. The difference is, I'm a genuine person and not a tick, and I know the difference between criticism and stirring shit just because I can.

This is even less necessary than Critz' trolling. It's this vapid yapping. Oh, blabla, let's be PC, everyone has their own opinion, the truth is in the middle, or maybe not, but let's hope nobody gets hurt. I'm a guy who tells it like it is.


----------



## FriFlo

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I'm a guy who tells it like it is.


Yeah, sure! I give up ...


----------



## ctsai89

Oh boy


----------



## synergy543

I heard this lovely sound posted by Mathieu A. on his YT page with real strings recorded at Lyndhurst Air Studios and wanted to see how close I could get Synchron Strings. This is a paraphrase (sorry Mathieu), played live with my crappy keyboard playing on a single VI Pro patch. The only CC is a foot pedal. Still, I think it shows some promise. A few things I found interesting were using multiple instruments simultaneously inside a single patch as you can see. This sort of simulates a divisi sound that is easier to play with chords than it would be with individual voices (if you're impatient like me). The downside, is that you should really draw this stuff in for better dynamic control as a foot pedal is a poor way to control dynamics unless you're Cameron Carpenter. Second, this is also simulating mutes as you can see with the EQ setting. Regardless, I think Synchron is quite bright and pulling the EQ back helps it sound more like realistic strings (there's a lot of bass in that Abbey Road recording). And in comparison, Dimension strings are much softer too.

I'm not trying to compare these two, but just wanted to see what I could learn from Mathieu's sound. Nevertheless, this is certain fodder for the grumpy trolls (putting flame suit on - fire away!). The point is, I think there's a bit more potential with some more exploration, layering tracks in the DAW, and using multiple CCs to control more parameters than just a foot pedal. The important parameters are visible if anyone wants to take ideas to use.

Synchron Strings - single patch played real time in a single pass
http://talkstudiousa.com/Synchron_LegEns_gdm.mp4

Mathieu A's real strings recorded at Lyndhurst Air Studios


----------



## FabioA

synergy543 said:


> Mathieu A's real strings recorded at Abbey Road




Looks like Air Studios!


----------



## synergy543

FabioA said:


> Looks like Air Studios!


Oh yes, you're right! I'll edit it. Thanks. And that would explain both the strong low end and the large amount of reverb.


----------



## Dear Villain

As someone who owns Synchron, but only played around with it for a few hours a month ago (waiting for the last updates and the Synchron Player to be released before I dive in to the deep end), what has me concerned is that I acquired Synchron more so for the promised ease of use/workflow improvements, not as much for the sound. What I discovered in my initial use of the library and through reading many of your experiences thus far, is that it seems just as time/labour intensive as any other VSL library is to work with, if not more. I personally found getting a single phrase to sound convincing in SS to be more challenging than with orchestra strings. I'll await the arrival of the Synchron player before I pass judgement, but on the surface, it seems all of the "intuitive" use is out the door and SS is just another library that needs endless coaxing to sound good. I do hope I'm wrong about this!

David Carovillano


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Dear Villain said:


> As someone who owns Synchron, but only played around with it for a few hours a month ago (waiting for the last updates and the Synchron Player to be released before I dive in to the deep end), what has me concerned is that I acquired Synchron more so for the promised ease of use/workflow improvements, not as much for the sound. What I discovered in my initial use of the library and through reading many of your experiences thus far, is that it seems just as time/labour intensive as any other VSL library is to work with, if not more. I personally found getting a single phrase to sound convincing in SS to be more challenging than with orchestra strings. I'll await the arrival of the Synchron player before I pass judgement, but on the surface, it seems all of the "intuitive" use is out the door and SS is just another library that needs endless coaxing to sound good. I do hope I'm wrong about this!
> 
> David Carovillano



The reason I bought SyS is because I was hoping for a different and fresh sound with natural ambience, but with the technical possibilities workability of VSL libraries and software (I find many libraries of other developers very clumsy and unwieldy to use). When VSL advertized minimized use of KS and an easier than ever workflow, that got me excited.

Having the library on my drive now, I'm happy that the sound is there, but I couldn't do a project with it as it is. The many velocity layers can sound absolutely stunning, so much I've discovered, but it's also a challenging thing to get used to and work with. The current player is not at all equipped for hosting a multi-mic library and using the different types of vibrato etc. by traditional VI Pro means isn't really feasible.

So I'm still kind of sitting on this big ass library and waiting for the new player to come out to really start working and making serious experiences with it. I have no doubts that I'll be able to make the library shine sonically, but how much the Synchron Player can really contribute towards intuitivity and ease of use ... I don't know.

Samples sometimes really piss me off. Honestly I get bored and frustrated a lot working with these things. Sometimes I think it's never really gonna be possible to produce halfway decent musical results (as long as the music has a minimum amount of detail and interest) with sample libraries without doing this ridiculous kind of fiddly Sisyphean task type work that we do.


----------



## Guy Bacos

With the addition of the (legato) violas, I was able to complete the parts, also mics used closer.

Capricious Waltz (mix 5)

Capricious Waltz (Mix 4)


----------



## The Darris

Guy Bacos said:


> With the addition of the (legato) violas, I was able to complete the parts, also mics used closer.
> 
> Capricious Waltz (Mix 4)


Sounds great Guy. One thing I might add is the entrances of the woodwinds seem very spread out in the stereo field and much closer than the Clarinet solo a few bars later. If you are okay with not being a purist, I'd suggest throwing in some violas or cellos 1 or 2 octaves below those really high and loud violins but have them about half or less the dynamic level and/or volume of the Violins. This will help tame that synthesque quality high string samples suffer from when playing at the higher dynamics. Just an idea. The composer is great by the way, I love a well written waltz. 

Best,

C


----------



## Casiquire

synergy543 said:


> I heard this lovely sound posted by Mathieu A. on his YT page with real strings recorded at Lyndhurst Air Studios and wanted to see how close I could get Synchron Strings. This is a paraphrase (sorry Mathieu), played live with my crappy keyboard playing on a single VI Pro patch. The only CC is a foot pedal. Still, I think it shows some promise. A few things I found interesting were using multiple instruments simultaneously inside a single patch as you can see. This sort of simulates a divisi sound that is easier to play with chords than it would be with individual voices (if you're impatient like me). The downside, is that you should really draw this stuff in for better dynamic control as a foot pedal is a poor way to control dynamics unless you're Cameron Carpenter. Second, this is also simulating mutes as you can see with the EQ setting. Regardless, I think Synchron is quite bright and pulling the EQ back helps it sound more like realistic strings (there's a lot of bass in that Abbey Road recording). And in comparison, Dimension strings are much softer too.
> 
> I'm not trying to compare these two, but just wanted to see what I could learn from Mathieu's sound. Nevertheless, this is certain fodder for the grumpy trolls (putting flame suit on - fire away!). The point is, I think there's a bit more potential with some more exploration, layering tracks in the DAW, and using multiple CCs to control more parameters than just a foot pedal. The important parameters are visible if anyone wants to take ideas to use.
> 
> Synchron Strings - single patch played real time in a single pass
> http://talkstudiousa.com/Synchron_LegEns_gdm.mp4
> 
> Mathieu A's real strings recorded at Lyndhurst Air Studios



Thanks for posting the demo. Those swells are all CC based? They sound really nice


----------



## synergy543

Casiquire said:


> Thanks for posting the demo. Those swells are all CC based? They sound really nice


Just a footpedal linked to control CC11 and velocity crossfade. So its really a combination of volume and velocity crossfade.

One thing that's very useful to do (which I didn't in this case) is to go in and adjust the curve that controls the CCs. This adds a tremendous amount of control. And you can have different curves for velocity xfade, filters, etc. A very useful but probably often overlooked feature.


----------



## Guy Bacos

The Darris said:


> Sounds great Guy. One thing I might add is the entrances of the woodwinds seem very spread out in the stereo field and much closer than the Clarinet solo a few bars later. If you are okay with not being a purist, I'd suggest throwing in some violas or cellos 1 or 2 octaves below those really high and loud violins but have them about half or less the dynamic level and/or volume of the Violins. This will help tame that synthesque quality high string samples suffer from when playing at the higher dynamics. Just an idea. The composer is great by the way, I love a well written waltz.
> 
> Best,
> 
> C



Thanks for the feedback Christopher.

Sounds great? So a bit less "very weak demos?"  

Just having fun, no problem. I'll deal with the WW after, but about your 1st violins suggestion, what is funny is what I added compared to the previous mix (mix 3) is exactly what you proposed here, that missing sound gap should be filled by the violas often playing an octave lower, I fear if I bring the violas up more, the violins may not like it. But I can play around with the balance and see if I can improve this.


----------



## The Darris

Guy Bacos said:


> Thanks for the feedback Christopher.
> 
> Sounds great? So a bit less "very weak demos?"



Compared to what VSL has published "officially"?? Hell yeah!! The weak parts I'm mentioning are what I think are library limitations, not composer/mock up capabilities. I think balancing is pretty much all you can do at this point. I've been enjoying hearing every iteration of your composition. Keep it up!!


----------



## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> With the addition of the (legato) violas, I was able to complete the parts, also mics used closer.
> 
> 
> Capricious Waltz (Mix 4)



Hi Guy,

This version (Mix 4), Sounds richer, and fuller with the Legato Violas added. 

Hopefully VSL will have the Basses ready this month, and the Synchron Player during April. 


Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Guy Bacos

Will have a new mix in 2 min.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Capricious Waltz (mix 5)

This is quickly done, but let's go from here. I think this mix seems to blend better.


----------



## muziksculp

Mix 5 sounds great as well. Since this is a relatively long track, it's hard to hear the difference between the mixes right away. 

What's changed in mix 5 compared to mix 4 ?


----------



## Guy Bacos

muziksculp said:


> Mix 5 sounds great as well. Since this is a relatively long track, it's hard to hear the difference between the mixes right away.
> 
> What's changed in mix 5 compared to mix 4 ?



1st violins are softer and brought up the lower mids in general EQ.

Until I got the full content of the violas I was focusing a lot on the violins, so some adjustment with the balance needed.


----------



## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> 1st violins are softer and brought up the mids in general EQ.
> 
> Until I got the full content of the violas I was focusing a lot on the violins, so some adjustment with the balance needed.



Thanks, I will listen to both mixes 4 & 5 carefully to notice the difference.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Feedback for MIX 5? I can take it, no worry.

Capricious Waltz (mix 5)


----------



## Eloy

Superb!


----------



## The Darris

Guy Bacos said:


> Feedback for MIX 5? I can take it, no worry.
> 
> Capricious Waltz (mix 5)


Balance is a lot better. I don't really have anything else to critique so I will sit back and enjoy any future iteration you share. 

-C


----------



## novaburst

Eloy said:


> Superb!


+1


----------



## tmhuud

Bravo as usual my friend!


----------



## muziksculp

Not related to any specific Strings Library, but a general observation I thought of mentioning here. 

There is a magical interaction between the violins, and the rest of the supporting lower voices (Violas, Cellos and Basses) depending on how they are arranged/voiced the timbre and character of the violins changes. 

This imho. is not just dependent on the relative volume of the various sections, but also the voicing/orchestration that one puts in motion, I find the lower and mid frequencies i.e. Basses Violas, and Cellos are very important to give a more soothing timbre to the way the Violins sound in a mix, I'm guessing some of it is just pure balancing of the frequency range, and some of it might be the interaction and masking of some frequencies by other voices, which results in some interesting sonic results. 

So.. part of it is engineering the mix to taste, the other part is pure orchestration, and good voicing of the chordal elements of the strings to produce a nice sounding balance between high-mid-low frequencies of the string ensemble.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

A heads up ...Today March 13th, VSL Synchron Strings sample content is now complete ! 

This is great news. Looking forward to the release of Synchron Player.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Celador

Basses are complete!

Edit: I was late .


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> A heads up ...Today March 13th, VSL Synchron Strings sample content is now complete !



VSL working very hard very very busy will they celebrate now or wait for the new player.


----------



## muziksculp

novaburst said:


> VSL working very hard very very busy will they celebrate now or wait for the new player.



Wait for the new player


----------



## C-Wave

I don't understand why the new Strings (V5) still has empty slots?


----------



## novaburst

has this got something to do with full and standard Mic position, as if you actually load the instrument all slots are covered


----------



## novaburst

C-Wave said:


> I don't understand why the new Strings (V5) still has empty slots?





novaburst said:


> has this got something to do with full and standard Mic position, as if you actually load the instrument all slots are covered



Possible glitch


----------



## C-Wave

novaburst said:


> Possible glitch


No.. actually I have Full, but its regardless, you should have it full when you open the room mix.


----------



## novaburst

C-Wave said:


> No.. actually I have Full, but its regardless, you should have it full when you open the room mix.



I have the standard version, i open my instruments individually all articulation slots appear to be full for each instrument.

Opening from the mic loads all the instruments, it appears they have missed out some articulation slots for the full instrument load.


----------



## C-Wave

Can aomeone please open the strings (v5 13/3/2018 download) preset and confirm that the matrix still has those same enpty slots? thx


----------



## novaburst

C-Wave said:


> Can aomeone please open the strings (v5 13/3/2018 download) preset and confirm that the matrix still has those same enpty slots? thx



Yes they are missing, I do believe these are the different legato articulation. 

Also it does not effect the individual instrument section, that is why it's not such a pain.


----------



## Guy Bacos

C-Wave said:


> Can aomeone please open the strings (v5 13/3/2018 download) preset and confirm that the matrix still has those same enpty slots? thx



If these missing patches are not among the patches section, they won't be among the matrix section either, so I'm guessing we are on stand by.


----------



## C-Wave

Thanks guys. I thought I was going nuts


----------



## Tfis

Does it make sense at all to have legato articulations in a full strings patch?


----------



## FabioA

Time for legatos 

Wild Mage | Phantom Twilight - Fields


----------



## Eliot

Nice work Fabio. I was so captivated by the music I forgot they were VSTs!


----------



## muziksculp

FabioA said:


> Time for legatos
> 
> Wild Mage | Phantom Twilight - Fields



Hi FabioA,

This is a wonderful sounding track, showing how natural, and realistic Synchron Strings can sound when used properly. They sound super natural, and very realistic in this track. One of the best demos of Synchron Strings I have heard so far. 

Bravo & Thanks for sharing,
Muziksculp


----------



## FabioA

Eliot said:


> Nice work Fabio. I was so captivated by the music I forgot they were VSTs!


Thanks a lot Eliot!


----------



## Vischebaste

FabioA said:


> Time for legatos
> 
> Wild Mage | Phantom Twilight - Fields



A beautiful composition, beautifully rendered. Fabio, are all of the strings Synchron?


----------



## FabioA

muziksculp said:


> Hi FabioA,
> 
> This is a wonderful sounding track, showing how natural, and realistic Synchron Strings can sound when used properly. They sound super natural, and very realistic in this track. One of the best demos of Synchron Strings I have heard so far.
> 
> Bravo & Thanks for sharing,
> Muziksculp


Thanks so much Muziksculp! Very very appreciated.



Vischebaste said:


> A beautiful composition, beautifully rendered. Fabio, are all of the strings Synchron?



Many many thanks  Yes, no layering here, just Synchron Strings. And no eq actually; just (but very important imho) a church reverb with Altiverb on top.


----------



## Vischebaste

FabioA said:


> Many many thanks  Yes, no layering here, just Synchron Strings. And no eq actually; just (but very important imho) a church reverb with Altiverb on top.



Wow, impressive!


----------



## muziksculp

@FabioA 

It would be great to hear more of your *Synchron Strings* based tracks when you have more to share with us. 

Is the second track you have after the first one you posted here also Synchron Strings ? it also sounds great. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## FabioA

muziksculp said:


> @FabioA
> 
> It would be great to hear more of your *Synchron Strings* based tracks when you have more to share with us.
> 
> Is the second track you have after the first one you posted here also Synchron Strings ? it also sounds great.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Yes, also Synchron Strings. In the second half I had to add SSS for harmonics. And there's a saturator to emphasize upper harmonics (I'm speaking about the harmonic series here,  ) since the general dynamic is very low and I think it helps a bit.


----------



## muziksculp

FabioA said:


> Yes, also Synchron Strings. In the second half I had to add SSS for harmonics. And there's a saturator to emphasize upper harmonics (I'm speaking about the harmonic series here,  ) since the general dynamic is very low and I think it helps a bit.



Very Cool ! 

Thanks for the feedback,
Muziksculp


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> This is a wonderful sounding track, showing how natural, and realistic Synchron Strings can sound



Nice one @FabioA nicely put together touching nice feel


----------



## muziksculp

Not specific to Synchron Strings, but a general comment about the treatment of String Libraries.

I find using saturaters, and mild-distortion plug-ins on strings quite interesting when some harmonic emphasis, or timbre change/sculpting is needed, a little bit of these types of DSP treatments can make quite a noticeable impact/improvement depending on the desired sound one is after.

Thanks to FabioA for bringing this up.


----------



## novaburst

Tfis said:


> Does it make sense at all to have legato articulations in a full strings patch?



you have a point, Violas and violins at mid to high range, cello and violas at mid range, cello and bass at the low mid range, but there is nothing stopping this from being done anyway.

To be honest I did not even know about the full sections until it was pointed out on the VSL forum don't think I ever used string in that way too.


----------



## Guy Bacos

I wanted to dedicate a demo to synchron pizz, I quickly wrote this piece, not the greatest composition in the world, but fun to do every now and then.

Spring Pizzicato


----------



## Saxer

Cute and fun to listen to!


----------



## FabioA

Guy Bacos said:


> I wanted to dedicate a demo to synchron pizz, I quickly wrote this piece, not the greatest composition in the world, but fun to do every now and then.
> 
> Spring Pizzicato



That's amazing! First thing congratulations for this funny and brilliant composition.
Not only pizzicatos, everything sounds perfect to me in this demo..


----------



## Casiquire

FabioA said:


> Time for legatos
> 
> Wild Mage | Phantom Twilight - Fields



Seriously fantastic! Both the composition and recording are so well done. Thanks so much for sharing


----------



## FabioA

Casiquire said:


> Seriously fantastic! Both the composition and recording are so well done. Thanks so much for sharing


Thanks to you for your words.


----------



## meradium

Should I ... Better not... Very nice compositions!


----------



## FabioA

meradium said:


> Should I ... Better not... Very nice compositions!


Any criticism is welcome!  I'm very grateful for all the unexpected positive feedbacks but different points of view are precious.


----------



## synergy543

Both of the recent pieces posted by Guy and Fabio really show a lot of possibilities with the Synchron Strings, and very different sides at that. Terrific work by both of you!


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Guy Bacos said:


> I wanted to dedicate a demo to synchron pizz, I quickly wrote this piece, not the greatest composition in the world, but fun to do every now and then.
> 
> Spring Pizzicato



Bravo, Wonderful uplifting spiffing light music piece that you have done there, Guy.


----------



## Guy Bacos

This synchron strings demo is mostly dedicated to the double basses and cellos in a suspensful cinematic atmoshere.

Exposure


----------



## Eloy

Guy Bacos said:


> This synchron strings demo is mostly dedicated to the double basses and cellos in a suspensful cinematic atmoshere.
> 
> Exposure


Guy,
Incredible (different than your other pieces) .....it would be wonderful to see a DAW video (organization of all elements-changing screen shots,etc....) of this piece. It is one thing to hear another to understand how VSL products are implemented. Once again thank you for sharing your talent.


----------



## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> This synchron strings demo is mostly dedicated to the double basses and cellos in a suspensful cinematic atmoshere.
> 
> Exposure



Hello Guy, 

This sounds Great ! 

The basses sound gorgeous, they would do a great job at recreating the Jaws theme by J. Williams 

I especially loved the atmosphere I was hearing during the last minute of the composition, it gets very dreamy, dark, and mysterious. I was imagining some violas introducing a melodic motif if you kept moving forward with this piece. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## novaburst

Eloy said:


> different than your other pieces) ....



Nice switch up, my personal feeling is the violins in Synchton are king 

But the orchestration of the piece made the double basses sound very nice.


----------



## Guy Bacos

muziksculp said:


> Hello Guy,
> 
> This sounds Great !
> 
> The basses sound gorgeous, they would do a great job at recreating the Jaws theme by J. Williams
> 
> I especially loved the atmosphere I was hearing during the last minute of the composition, it gets very dreamy, dark, and mysterious. I was imagining some violas introducing a melodic motif if you kept moving forward with this piece.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Thanks muziksculp!

The thing with Jaws, is ever since this movie, anytime one does a semi-tone with double basses you will always have that reference.  The middle section was a bit inspired from Shutter Island, those big string octaves when he approaches the island. Violas, yeah that would of fit the mood.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Eloy said:


> Guy,
> Incredible (different than your other pieces) .....it would be wonderful to see a DAW video (organization of all elements-changing screen shots,etc....) of this piece. It is one thing to hear another to understand how VSL products are implemented. Once again thank you for sharing your talent.



Thanks Eloy! Actually, I do these cinematic pieces regularly, ever I started making demos, but maybe 1 or 2 out of 10, mostly I prefer concert types. 

I'll see the DAW video possibilities, never done this.


----------



## stigc56

Hi Guy,
Your work is truly inspiring. I think your working in Logic right? It would be really nice if you would tell me how your setup is designed. Are you using the new Articulation switching system or just old fashion KS? Are you running Synchron strings from a slave or?


----------



## Guy Bacos

stigc56 said:


> Hi Guy,
> Your work is truly inspiring. I think your working in Logic right? It would be really nice if you would tell me how your setup is designed. Are you using the new Articulation switching system or just old fashion KS? Are you running Synchron strings from a slave or?



Thanks! 

Old fashion KS.


----------



## Tfis

Are demos out there with fast notes or runs?


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

April is just around the corner, hopefully VSL will be releasing their new *Synchron Player* during April (as they promised), and we will be able to really enjoy using *VSL Synchron Strings *with the new Synchron Player. Can't wait to finally begin using this library. Funny, but I was under the impression that it was going to be released in Nov. last year, (wishful thinking on my part) , I posted this topic on Oct. 11th, 2017. Time really flies ! 

I also wonder what the next Synchron Library release will be, (Brass or Woodwinds ?) I'm guessing VSL is already working on the upcoming Synchron releases as I'm typing this post. I would also expect additional Synchron Strings Releases in the near and distant future, i.e. (Synchron Strings 2, Sychron Chamber Strings, Synchron Solo Strings, and if I'm lucky I will also see Synchron Appassionata Strings one of these days). 

Exciting times ahead for us VSL fans. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> wonder what the next Synchron Library release will be



Brass and Strings are the best sounding couple, these two have been in love for decades with no hint of a divorce and still going stronger than ever together..........forever.




muziksculp said:


> if I'm lucky I will also see Synchron Appassionata Strings one of these days



Or even Synchron Dimension Strings, the only other string collection that is mildly distracting me at the moment but a Synchron series I am sure would be stupendous.



muziksculp said:


> Exciting times ahead for us VSL fans



not only for those who prefer to use VSL products but for VSL developers too an exciting challenge for the developers at this developer age.



muziksculp said:


> hopefully VSL will be releasing their new *Synchron Player* during April



I am truly wondering what are users expecting from this new unit, I am sure a welcome part of the series even the standard unit is doing quite well but this could be to my lack of experience,

I cant see anything that the new unit can bring more than the advance player and if you have that it will perhaps be tick for tack in preference.

I was surprised @muziksculp that you held off for so long on the product and thought to dive in and grab the flavour and mood of the product would have been the best choice of action at least to appreciate any difference in playability between the old and new player.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> I am truly wondering what are users expecting from this new unit



In my case: handling of patches that's suitable for multi-mic libraries first and foremost. VI Pro is absolutely unsuitable for this.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> In my case: handling of patches that's suitable for multi-mic libraries first and foremost. VI Pro is absolutely unsuitable for this.



I forgot about this, but using this feature inside VEpro give you the option to edit each mic position if needed with 3rd party effects,

But yes for sure mic position would be beneficial.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> I forgot about this, but using this feature inside VEpro give you the option to edit each mic position if needed with 3rd party effects,
> 
> But yes for sure mic position would be beneficial.



I don't use VE, or VE Pro at all. It makes things only more complicated. 

What I mean is the basic process of even setting up your own instruments and matrices in the first place. It's a nightmare. In order to even load a single articulation, you currently need to drag and drop every single mic position manually into a slot - and let's not even get started with setting up slot crossfades etc. And that's just one single articulation. Setting up a whole SyS template with all 5 sections can result in hours of work. It's like buying a Kontakt library and having to drag all the samples in the correct places in the mapping and group editors.

That's why my biggest hope for the Synchron Player is that it automatically recognizes and places all patches in the background where they belong to. I don't wanna screw around with Shorts - close, shorts Decca, Shorts - room mix etc. etc. I want to pick the shorts articulation and be able to adjust mic positions via sliders just like it's possible in any multi mic Kontakt lib Otherwise it's no use.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I don't use VE, or VE Pro at all



I don't think I can do with out VE and that not just for Synchron, but once its all set up its all saved and can continue to another project,

In my mind I am not sure if the new player is going to make me want to change this method as I find it very useful,




Jimmy Hellfire said:


> That's why my biggest hope for the Synchron Player is that it automatically recognizes and places all patches in the background where they belong to. I don't wanna screw around with Shorts - close, shorts Decca, Shorts - room mix etc. etc. I want to pick the shorts articulation and be able to adjust mic positions via sliders just like it's possible in any multi mic Kontakt lib Otherwise it's no use.



I am sure there will be mic position sliders, but when I think about it, it hasn't been the VSL way but I guess we can wait and see.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> I don't think I can do with out VE and that not just for Synchron, but once its all set up its all saved and can continue to another project,
> 
> In my mind I am not sure if the new player is going to make me want to change this method as I find it very useful,



Not sure what it has to do with VE Pro though. VE Pro is one step up the "hierarchy", so to speak. It doesn't host the samples, it handles routing. The benefit of switching projects without unloading the samples stays intact regardless of what sample player it contains (VI Pro or the Synchron Player).

The issue I'm talking about is that handling multi-mic patches in VI Pro is currently unfeasible and if this doesn't change with Synchron Player, it would sort of end up being a supposedly superior new software that can't do what Kontakt 4 did 10 years ago.


----------



## Dear Villain

Hi all,

This was an experimental piece for string orchestra, created exclusively with the Vienna Symphonic Library strings. In this version, I used Synchron Strings exclusively, with no additional reverb, except for a bit of "Miracle".



In this version, I layered orchestral, chamber, and solo strings, and placed them in Mir's Teldex Studio.



My thoughts:

-I began this version by copying the midi data for the previous orchestral/chamber/solo strings version. In all, it took about 4 hours of tweaking to complete the Synchron version.

-I like the sharp attacks of the Synchron strings (it's nice to be able to have that little "marcato" at the start of a legato phrase)

-The shorts are clean, crisp, decisive

-Increased velocity layers allows for less precise tweaking of the expression cc data

-The workflow doesn't feel any more efficient using Synchron with the current Vienna Instruments player. Hoping that the soon-to-be-released Synchron player is more intuitive and improves workflow.

-The piece is a little "punchy/bombastic" in terms of the overall force of the sound. I was definitely trying to create a heavy handed performance with decisive articulations so that I could compare the two versions.

Dave


----------



## novaburst

This is just an example of how I use mic volume sliders in VE. note benefits of 3rd party effects, of course this would be routed to a single lane inside your DAW. its just an example to explain what I mean and the possibility's that can be accomplished by using the product in this method, remember once your satisfied just save.

I don't believe the new player can offer a better solution in possibility


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

VEP6 has given my aging laptop some extended life.


----------



## stigc56

I hope for an easier way to select patches. Program Changes would be nice and easy, for both Cubase and Logic. I hope for a more customer orientated approach from both VSL and Spitfire - just bought the Symphonic Strings and the Chamber Strings - the manuals are horrible, and there should be VST & Logic Articulation maps supplied, with the relevant presets. I was fairly new to Spitfire, and I had to figure out how to create a patch with ALL art. in Kontakt. That shouldn't be necessary when I just bought 2 libs to 1200$! Even with the help of third parties like Babylonwaves it's quite time consuming to build these set-ups. Yes I know - sound like an old angry man - well I am. Sometimes!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> This is just an example of how I use mic volume sliders in VE. note benefits of 3rd party effects, of course this would be routed to a single lane inside your DAW. its just an example to explain what I mean and the possibility's that can be accomplished by using the product in this method, remember once your satisfied just save.
> 
> I don't believe the new player can offer a better solution in possibility



Again, that's not what I mean. The Synchron Player can't and isn't supposed to change anything about that. The Synchron Player is the sample player. It facilitates the samples itself. VEPro doesn't have to do anything with that. Whatever The Synchron Player does or does not do, VEPro is going to host it the same way it hosts VI Pro.

What I'm talking about is that in order to load _a single articulation_ patch in a new cell, in VI Pro I have to:

1) go to "Patch" tab, click on "A - String patches"
2) choose "000 Synchron Strings"
3) choose "01 SY 1st Violins-14"
4) choose "01 Close"
5) choose "A - FULL VELOCITIES"
6) choose "01F VI-14_Long-LyV_Close"
7) drag the patch into the cell manually
8) choose "02 Mid L+R"
9) choose "A - FULL VELOCITIES"
10) choose "01F VI-14_Long-LyV_Mid"
11) drag the patch into the cell manually
12) choose "03 Main L+R"
13) choose "A - FULL VELOCITIES"
14) choose "01F VI-14_Long-LyV_L-R"
15) drag the patch into the cell manually
16) choose "03 Main Center"
17) choose "A - FULL VELOCITIES"
18) choose "01F VI-14_Long-LyV_C"
19) drag the patch into the cell manually

This is the process for the standard library. If you got the full one with the additional mics, proceed with step #20 - 31.
You have now successfully loaded _one single articulation_ for one out of five full string sections with over two dozens of articulations.

Now you got your basic "longs" patch in a cell and can _start_ setting it up whatever way you need it, or dialing in the mics. Let's not even get started about setting up noVib to Vib or something like that.

Compare that to, let's say, some Albion, CSS or whatever Kontakt library you happen to have lying around. What do you have to do in order to load a "longs" articulation and choose a mic mix?

1) Load CSS 1st Violins
2) click on "Sustain"
3) move mic sliders to taste

That's the point I'm trying to make.


----------



## muziksculp

@novaburst ,

The new Synchron Player is much better designed, and suited for multi-mic libraries, the older VSL Libraries were fine to work with in VI-Pro , but not the Synchron line of libraries. There are so many improvements that that the new Synchron Player will offer to make using the newer Synchron based libraries much faster, easier, and more enjoyable too. Speedier workflow, and possibly other details that improve the whole experience of using VSL Synchron based libraries. 

VSL would have not bothered with developing a new Synchron Player, if using VI-Pro2, and VE-pro 6 was good enough. But that's surely not the case.


----------



## novaburst

Hi guys I am not challenging you or debating, and yes @Jimmy Hellfire I understand where you are coming from with full velocity and so on



muziksculp said:


> VSL would have not bothered with developing a new Synchron Player, if using VI-Pro2, and VE-pro 6 was good enough. But that's surely not the case.



@muziksculp this also is not my intention.

My impression is that VSL works to its fullest potential when it is used in its entire entity meaning VE is a vital ingredient to the usage of VSL products (also 3rd party products)

once the mic positions are in the new player and that is if VSL take this approach, it means when using any 3rd party effects it will effect all the mic positions, and you may not want to do that,

For example you may want to use your preferred 3rd party reverb, or distortion on just the close mic position, that will not be achievable without effecting all the mic positions.

in a mic set up using VE weather pro or the free version each mic position can be edited independently without effecting any other mic position in a single track lane, so weather you have 7 or 4 mic positions you can go to work on them independently to get your desired sound/tone/feel 

You can already see the disadvantage of having all mic positions in one player as is the norm in other library's

That's all I was trying to convey and for you to see the advantage in this method and to understand the role of VE.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> You can already see the disadvantage of having all mic positions in one player as is the norm in other library's



Not really though. You can route different mic positions to different audio outs in Kontakt and process those independently, that's no problem. For example, I always do this for drum kits, as I would never compress or EQ the kickdrum the way I do the snare. I see no reason why the Synchron Player shouldn't be capable of doing that, it's basic functionality of any decent sample player. I'm sure you'll be able to route the mic positions from the Synchron Player to VE Pro independently.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I'm sure you'll be able to route the mic positions from the Synchron Player to VE Pro independently.



Hahaha I would say that Kontakt is a we bit more than just a player, but if you want to try it on just the kontakt player hmmmmm

Anyway I guess we will see when it is released but its not essential, and I think its a bit of a wishful thinking :emoji_tools:


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> but if you want to try it on just the kontakt player hmmmmm



I'm sure it works! :D


----------



## Jay Panikkar

Awesome demos by Guy Bacos and FabioA, thanks for sharing.


----------



## Casiquire

Dear Villain said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This was an experimental piece for string orchestra, created exclusively with the Vienna Symphonic Library strings. In this version, I used Synchron Strings exclusively, with no additional reverb, except for a bit of "Miracle".
> 
> 
> 
> In this version, I layered orchestral, chamber, and solo strings, and placed them in Mir's Teldex Studio.
> 
> 
> 
> My thoughts:
> 
> -I began this version by copying the midi data for the previous orchestral/chamber/solo strings version. In all, it took about 4 hours of tweaking to complete the Synchron version.
> 
> -I like the sharp attacks of the Synchron strings (it's nice to be able to have that little "marcato" at the start of a legato phrase)
> 
> -The shorts are clean, crisp, decisive
> 
> -Increased velocity layers allows for less precise tweaking of the expression cc data
> 
> -The workflow doesn't feel any more efficient using Synchron with the current Vienna Instruments player. Hoping that the soon-to-be-released Synchron player is more intuitive and improves workflow.
> 
> -The piece is a little "punchy/bombastic" in terms of the overall force of the sound. I was definitely trying to create a heavy handed performance with decisive articulations so that I could compare the two versions.
> 
> Dave




Great demo. It doesn't sound "synthy" to me. There's little focus on the troubled legato, but it's clear that the library is very good


----------



## Dear Villain

Casiquire said:


> Great demo. It doesn't sound "synthy" to me. There's little focus on the troubled legato, but it's clear that the library is very good



Thank you, Casiquire! As for the legato, I'm finding with the piece I'm currently working on, that I'll probably need to layer another string library with Synchron, because, no matter how much I experiment with every setting available in the VI Player, I simply can't achieve smooth, connected phrases.

Dave


----------



## Casiquire

Dear Villain said:


> Thank you, Casiquire! As for the legato, I'm finding with the piece I'm currently working on, that I'll probably need to layer another string library with Synchron, because, no matter how much I experiment with every setting available in the VI Player, I simply can't achieve smooth, connected phrases.
> 
> Dave



That's really unfortunate!


----------



## Dear Villain

Casiquire said:


> That's really unfortunate!



Well, I'm hoping that some users will find the magic technique to make the legato work the way I'm sure VSL intended. Hopefully with the player, or some future update.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I wonder what VSL Website's main page will feature tomorrow (Monday April 2nd) ? 

Another Discounted Library line for the month ? or maybe Synchron Brass ? or the new Synchron Player ? or ... ?

We will know for sure by tomorrow. 

Any guesses ?

All The Best,
Muziksculp


----------



## Arbee

I'm VERY happy that VSL is not ditching its original libraries completely to follow other developers down this ambient library rabbit hole. So far, to my subjective ears this library has just reinforced that while MIR may not be perfect, MIR + dry libraries + a bit of finishing reverb is still the best all round compromise available to date for my needs.


----------



## muziksculp

Arbee said:


> I'm VERY happy that VSL is not ditching its original libraries completely to follow other developers down this ambient library rabbit hole. So far, to my subjective ears this library has just reinforced that while MIR may not be perfect, MIR + dry libraries + a bit of finishing reverb is still the best all round compromise available to date for my needs.



Yes, they are surely not ditching their original libraries, why would they do that ?

But... Their main focus at this phase of their evolution, is to develop new *Synchron Stage* based Orchestral Libraries, that will run very efficiently, and offer improved workflow via their new *Synchron Player*.


----------



## Arbee

My point is that every (yes EVERY) ambient library shares the same challenges that Synchron Strings has to some degree. The very concept of joining "ambient notes" effectively due to their troublesome tails has so far been unconvincing in string libraries. I sincerely do hope the Synchron Player sprinkles some magic in this area, VSL have obviously poured a huge amount of work and investment into it and I really hope they achieve the result.


----------



## muziksculp

Arbee said:


> My point is that every (yes EVERY) ambient library shares the same challenges that Synchron Strings has to some degree. The very concept of joining "ambient notes" effectively due to their troublesome tails has so far been unconvincing in string libraries. I sincerely do hope the Synchron Player sprinkles some magic in this area, VSL have obviously poured a huge amount of work and investment into it and I really hope they achieve the result.



I'm guessing you are referring to joining the *legato* transitions to the start and destination notes, at various dynamics of their Synchron Strings legato articulation, which is not an easy task. 

Hopefully their new Synchron Player will solve any remaining issues with creating smooth Legato transitions they might be having with the current VI-Pro 2 player. Since I have zero experience with Synchron Strings, I think that's the main issue users are complaining about, all other articulations work very nicely, and sound great. 

I also feel that some users have found a good technique to produce smooth legato phrases, than other have, so some technique, and experience with making these legatos sound good is needed to get the best results. Maybe this will be revealed by some of the experienced users that are doing it successfully. This is very clear from the demos being posted so far.


----------



## maestro2be

I am suspecting we will see a new piano first for instruments.

It will also be nice to see the new player but at this point I have long moved on and not letting any excitement in until that thing is finished.


----------



## muziksculp

maestro2be said:


> I am suspecting we will see a new piano first.



Hmmm... A New Piano, that's an Interesting guess. 

But, I would rather see Synchron Brass next.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

The new piano has already been confirmed as coming up this year, so that's more likely than SyB or SyWW. But I don't think it's gonna be this month.


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The new piano has already been confirmed as coming up this year, so that's more likely than SyB or SyWW. But I don't think it's gonna be this month.



I had no idea a new Piano release has been confirmed by VSL to be released this year, that's cool. Did they mention if the new Piano is sampled in Synchron Stage ? 

Well.. Anyways, I sure hope they give priority to *Synchron Brass*, and then *Synchron Woodwinds*, to give us an initial Synchron Orchestra.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muziksculp said:


> I had no idea a new Piano release has been confirmed by VSL to be released this year, that's cool. Did they mention if the new Piano is sampled in Synchron Stage ?
> 
> Well.. Anyways, I sure hope they give priority to *Synchron Brass*, and then *Synchron Woodwinds*, to give us an initial Synchron Orchestra.



Yes, it's a Yamaha CFX recorded at Synchron, shown in the VSL 2018 product catalogue. http://eu.vsl.co.at/downloader.aspx?MediaID=13238

Anyways, I believe it's a discount on SyPerc and choirs this month.


----------



## muziksculp

The VSL 2018 catalog mentions the new *Yamaha CFX Piano* will be released during *Q2 of 2018*.

Oddly, there is no mention of _Synchron Brass_, or _Synchron Woodwinds_ releases for 2018 in their 2018 catalog.  I'm wondering if they will be working on additional Synchron Strings this year (i.e. Chamber, Solo, ..etc.) before tackling the Synchron Brass, and Woodwinds (maybe 2019) ?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Honestly, I don't think any other Synchron releases, other than the piano, are realistic for 2018. Just look how long it took them to finish the strings. They originally wanted to have them out in November 2017. Hard to imagine that they would be finishing up another 700 GB (or whatever crazy number it ended being) library this year.


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Honestly, I don't think any other Synchron releases, other than the piano, are realistic for 2018. Just look how long it took them to finish the strings. They originally wanted to have them out in November 2017. Hard to imagine that they would be finishing up another 700 GB (or whatever crazy number it ended being) library this year.



Yeah, that might be the case. But, this also means that we won't have a basic Synchron Orchestra before 2020 ! That's a crazy long time to wait. They really need to speed up their library production time.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Yeah, that might be the case. But, this also means that we won't have a basic Synchron Orchestra before 2020 ! That's a crazy long time to wait. They really need to speed up their library production time.



Three years for such a deep sampled full orchestra actually really didn't sound that outrageous to me, certainly not unrealistic.


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Three years for such a deep sampled full orchestra actually really didn't sound that outrageous to me, certainly not unrealistic.



Yeah, but it would really be great if they can speed things up. i.e. by working on a new Synchron based Yamaha Piano library they are delaying the production of the Synchron Brass Library. I would have liked to see them focus on getting the Brass out this year, instead or a Piano.


----------



## Casiquire

omiroad said:


> Rather than speeding up, I hope the sound quality will be more positively received for the next libraries. Synchron Strings had a very mixed reception and that shouldn't be the case for the next libraries that include legato.



Exactly. I'm not on board with the idea that they should focus on speed when I don't believe the development is going terribly slowly to begin with.


----------



## muziksculp

I would have to disagree, I feel they are moving super slow. Announcing a library in October for a Nov. release last year, and we are in April 2018, 6 months later, and they still have not released it as a complete library with its player. Maybe I'm just getting old, and can't wait too long


----------



## Ben

Synchron Player is not coming in april: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t48578-SY-Player-Update#post270867


----------



## muziksculp

Ben said:


> Synchron Player is not coming in april: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t48578-SY-Player-Update#post270867


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

C'mon...
168,452 views and 130 pages... why???? To me it sounds below average. All subjective obviously... But really, wtf... 2,582 posts.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

DarkestShadow said:


> C'mon...
> 168,452 views and 130 pages... why???? To me it sounds below average. All subjective obviously... But really, wtf... 2,582 posts.



So what? HZ Strings is likely to break the record.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> So what? HZ Strings is likely to break the record.


Well... it's *Hans Zimmer*! And a lot of controversy around it. But what's the deal with _this_??


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

DarkestShadow said:


> Well... it's *Hans Zimmer*! And a lot of controversy around it.



But it's kind of a similar situation - a library I would never consider buying, but it generates massive interest on this forum. So obviously people care about different things.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> But it's kind of a similar situation - a library I would never consider buying, but it generates massive interest on this forum. So obviously people care about different things.


Yea, I see.
Even though I find it more logical that a library with such a big name on it gets this kind of attention. Just kinda bewildered here.


----------



## muk

In the world of sample libraries, VSL is a big name too.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

muk said:


> In the world of sample libraries, VSL is a big name too.


They invented legato as far as I know.
But I actually hear very few people actually use a lot Vsl products nowadays somehow... Well, but maybe that still explains it and I'm just venturing to much among epic music composers


----------



## novaburst

DarkestShadow said:


> But I actually hear very few people actually use a lot Vsl products nowadays somehow



Where did you hear that from, it a big world out there and you would not of known every one that has VSL.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

novaburst said:


> Where did you hear that from, it a big world out there and you would not of known every one that has VSL.


I was just sharing the observation that, when someone posts what sample libraries were used in a piece there mostly isn't anything from Vsl among it. Then followed it up with the potential explaination that I am listening to a lot of composers that tend to write more epic, big music for which they may disregard Vsl libraries.


----------



## FabioA

DarkestShadow said:


> I was just sharing the observation that, when someone posts what sample libraries were used in a piece there mostly isn't anything from Vsl among it. Then followed it up with the potential explaination that I am listening to a lot of composers that tend to write more epic, big music for which they may disregard Vsl libraries.


Or... you don't have a clue of what VSL means in the Sampling industry. Disused and pretty unkown to "newest generation" or not, for reasons I don't want to assume here, your comments are absolutely naive and funny, let me say that.


----------



## novaburst

DarkestShadow said:


> I was just sharing the observation that, when someone posts what sample libraries were used in a piece there mostly isn't anything from Vsl among it. Then followed it up with the potential explaination that I am listening to a lot of composers that tend to write more epic, big music for which they may disregard Vsl libraries.



I think VSL can easterly tame the epic world with its usage, there has been clever publicity from other developers to take control of the epic library use So that will get a lot of attention, but still epic is bigger than your world and the world in this forum and there is not a lot of knowledge of what every one is using and that's just the country we live in.

Some follow the trend of a library for epic use, some just don't care and use what's available for epic.


----------



## jamwerks

Arbee said:


> My point is that every (yes EVERY) ambient library shares the same challenges that Synchron Strings has to some degree. The very concept of joining "ambient notes" effectively due to their troublesome tails has so far been unconvincing in string libraries. I sincerely do hope the Synchron Player sprinkles some magic in this area, VSL have obviously poured a huge amount of work and investment into it and I really hope they achieve the result.


Have you gotten to hear the Joshua Bell solo violin library? Not sure that the tail is the difficult part for editing legato. And don't forget that the early VSL libraries have tails also, albeit fairly short.


----------



## C-Wave

DarkestShadow said:


> I was just sharing the observation that, when someone posts what sample libraries were used in a piece there mostly isn't anything from Vsl among it. Then followed it up with the potential explaination that I am listening to a lot of composers that tend to write more epic, big music for which they may disregard Vsl libraries.


hey Shadow,
I know you didn’t mean no disrespect, but my guess the reason you don’t hear many talk about VSL is that other libraries being kontakt based can be pirated pretty easily while VSL couldn’t, so you will find many with the other “big names” sitting on their big hard drives. 
BTW, this is one of the reaons Spitfire are moving to their own sampler.. so again speculating, you might find spitifre less likely to be as popular a couple of years down the road.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

DarkestShadow said:


> They invented legato as far as I know.
> But I actually hear very few people actually use a lot Vsl products nowadays somehow... Well, but maybe that still explains it and I'm just venturing to much among epic music composers



I do believe that VSL probably isn't the first choice for composers who seek the mainstream cinematic sound - neither in terms of workflow nor sound. But looking beyond that particular niche, VSL is still a very relevant name and overall one of the real "big players" in the sample business.

Personally, I don't care about film music and don't strive for that sonic ideal, but for many things that I do, VSL is my go-to and provides things I can't get elsewhere.


----------



## C-Wave

muziksculp said:


> The VSL 2018 catalog mentions the new *Yamaha CFX Piano* will be released during *Q2 of 2018*.
> 
> Oddly, there is no mention of _Synchron Brass_, or _Synchron Woodwinds_ releases for 2018 in their 2018 catalog.  I'm wondering if they will be working on additional Synchron Strings this year (i.e. Chamber, Solo, ..etc.) before tackling the Synchron Brass, and Woodwinds (maybe 2019) ?


I think I heard Paul (maybe during Westlake Pro demo?) mention that they started recording more articulations for Synchron Strings.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

C-Wave said:


> hey Shadow,
> I know you didn’t mean no disrespect, but my guess the reason you don’t hear many talk about VSL is that other libraries being kontakt based can be pirated pretty easily while VSL couldn’t, so you will find many with the other “big names” sitting on their big hard drives.
> BTW, this is one of the reaons Spitfire are moving to their own sampler.. so again speculating, you might find spitifre less likely to be as popular a couple of years down the road.


Wow, you shoot with heavy bullets out of nowhere... I'm also listening talking about composers that are almost all involved with big labels and work professionally, so I can't really imagine that they just pirat all their stuff. Btw: Hollywood series is something I hear very often in the music I'm listening to (also the main sounds I'm using) and also they are often listed among the libraries used - and as far as I know Play is not crackable ATM.


FabioA said:


> Or... you don't have a clue of what VSL means in the Sampling industry. Disused and pretty unkown to "newest generation" or not, for reasons I don't want to assume here, your comments are absolutely naive and funny, let me say that.


What is naive and funny about my observation that Vsl is not used very often in todays music? You don't even disagree with that statement, which you are free to do. We all listen to different composers and music and they use different tools. And most I know don't use Vsl. No idea why you are getting so aggressive.
Was just wondering why this thread is so super huge when I don't hear a lot about them. And the library sounds... meh... - subjective opinion obviously.


----------



## FabioA

DarkestShadow said:


> Wow, you shoot with heavy bullets out of nowhere... I'm also listening talking about composers that are almost all involved with big labels and work professionally, so I can't really imagine that they just pirat all their stuff. Btw: Hollywood series is something I hear very often in the music I'm listening to (also the main sounds I'm using) and also they are often listed among the libraries used - and as far as I know Play is not crackable ATM.
> 
> What is naive and funny about my observation that Vsl is not used very often in todays music? You don't even disagree with that statement, which you are free to do. We all listen to different composers and music and they use different tools. And most I know don't use Vsl. No idea why you are getting so aggressive.


I was mainly referring to your previous posts, where you claimed that was normal for a library like HZ Strings to get a lot of attention, but it wasn't for a library from VSL. 
Aggressive? if so, i beg your pardon. Probably your posts sounded to me like when I've read on fb teenagers accusing MJ to sound totally like Bruno Marc.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

FabioA said:


> I was mainly referring to your previous posts, where you claimed that was normal for a library like HZ Strings to get a lot of attention, but it wasn't for a library from VSL.
> Aggressive? if so, i beg your pardon. Probably your posts sounded to me like when I've read on fb teenagers accusing MJ to sound totally like Bruno Marc.


Yea, I just understand it better when a library branded with the name of the propably most popular film composer gets a huge thread than Vsl. This propably has to do with my subjective experience of Vsl not being used so much as to justify that. But as I said this could be because I'm mostly in the "mainstream cinematic" realm of things, as a listener and composer - a sound that Vsl doesnt cater to as much out of the box.


----------



## Critz

DarkestShadow said:


> Yea, I just understand it better when a library branded with the name of the propably most popular film composer gets a huge thread than Vsl.


Sounds like Michael Patti was totally right afterall


----------



## novaburst

DarkestShadow said:


> Yea, I just understand it better when a library branded with the name of the propably most popular film composer gets a huge thread than Vsl. This propably has to do with my subjective experience of Vsl not being used so much as to justify that. But as I said this could be because I'm mostly in the "mainstream cinematic" realm of things, as a listener and composer - a sound that Vsl doesnt cater to as much out of the box



It sounds like from this language your not going for constructive discussion if that be the case your just another typical loop, yep hear we go again another VSL hater just raised from the grave, please some one do a head shot.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

novaburst said:


> It sounds like from this language your not going for constructive discussion if that be the case your just another typical loop, yep hear we go again another VSL hater just raised from the grave, please some one do a head shot.


?
I have not uttered any opinion about Vsl as a company, just stated that I know few people using their products - responding to the popularity argument + stated multiple times that this might be because I'm simply not listening as much to the more classical side of scoring as the modern cinematic, which may explain that I don't hear a lot from them there. I'm actually surpised that people are still responding to this trivial remark and wasn't aware that I started a discussion about the quality of Vsl.


----------



## muk

Come on guys, rein it in a little. It's not surprising that VSL is a less well known brand in the realm of epic music composers. That doesn't mean that their libraries don't have their uses. This thread indicates that they are actually widely used. It also indicates, and that is really interesting I think, that the two groups of epic composers and orchestral/'classical' composers don't seem to take much notice what and how the others are doing.

@DarkestShadow check out VSL Woodwinds. In my opinion it's one of their best libraries. But yeah, woodwinds don't usually get much love on the epic front.

@novaburst in my opinion you are way out of line here.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

muk said:


> Come on guys, rein it in a little. It's not surprising that VSL is a less well known brand in the realm of epic music composers. That doesn't mean that their libraries don't have their uses. This thread indicates that they are actually widely used. It also indicates, and that is really interesting I think, that the two groups of epic composers and orchestral/'classical' composers don't seem to take much notice what and how the others are doing.
> 
> @DarkestShadow check out VSL Woodwinds. In my opinion it's one of their best libraries. But yeah, woodwinds don't usually get much love on the epic front.
> 
> @novaburst in my opinion you are way out of line here.


I love their woodwinds! I have their special edition and they are really beautiful - the legato is great and the tonal character is so great that I would use them over more flexible and deeply sampled new libraries.
I'm actually using a lot of flute on the epic/trailer album I'm working on.  And other woods to thicken up and define harmonies.


----------



## novaburst

muk said:


> @novaburst in my opinion you are way out of line here.



Charm down dude


----------



## Cartoon

Here some "famous" composers who are using VSL products: Danny Elfman, Alexandre Desplat, David Newman, Joe Kraemer and a lot of more...


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## Critz

Cartoon said:


> Here some "famous" composers who are using VSL products: Danny Elfman, Alexandre Desplat, David Newman, Joe Kraemer and a lot of more...


12-15 years ago, definitely. VSL does bad marketing when they still advertise their libraries with such old quotes from famous composers. Maybe they still use VSL, because you are talking about "old school composers". But look at composers who actually have a more modern approach, composers who have much more confidence with samples, like Junkie XL. He uses everything but VSL.


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## Lionel Schmitt

Cartoon said:


> Here some "famous" composers who are using VSL products: Danny Elfman, Alexandre Desplat, David Newman, Joe Kraemer and a lot of more...


And then they record live! :D Maybe it's convenience, products they know. Vsl is looong in the game afterall...

I actually didn't want go at this further, meh. 


Critz said:


> But look at composers who actually have a more modern approach, composers who have much more confidence with samples, like Junkie XL. He uses everything but VSL.


John Powell also doesnt seem to have a lot of them... He doesn't mention them in his shoutout - mainly Cinesamples, Spitfire and Orchestral Tools.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> Junkie XL


Does he even qualify as a composer? To me, that was always some techno guy who got into doing sound for action movies and stuff. Haha.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Thank goodness no one uses VSL anymore.

Now my work will be unique among the slather.

Danke.


----------



## Simon Ravn

I actually still use the ooooooooooooold flute + clarinet from the Special Edition. A few days ago I had to do flute + clarinet solos. Tried Berlin and Spitfire, but no, VSL still came out on top for performance, agility and the clarity you want from a soloist performance.

Now that Powell's template is mentioned... I just recently started rebuilding my own, and boy, now I understand why he has CSS strings as his "to go" ones.


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## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Does he even qualify as a composer? To me, that was always some techno guy who got into doing sound for action movies and stuff. Haha.


I think you can tell that on many Hollywood composers nowadays. It could sound like the description of Hans Zimmer as well..

But what about John Powell? It's just an example, I could also say Gregson-Williams; every composer who shared its own template in the last years had VE Pro only from VSL.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> I think you can tell that on many Hollywood composers nowadays. It could sound like the description of Hans Zimmer as well..
> 
> But what about John Powell? It's just an example, I could also say Gregson-Williams; every composer who shared its own template in the last years had VE Pro only from VSL.



I don't know man. There's a thousand reasons why someone uses, or doesn't use, some product. Maybe John Powell's and Mike Piatti's kids are in the same school class and they met at a barbecue. Why don't I own anything that says Apple on it? No particular reason other than because everything about them strikes me as Hipster, really. I don't really care about these guys, what kind of relevance does it have for me what they have saved in their template?

People need to live more and stop evaluating themselves through others!


----------



## Cartoon

Sorry for changing the topic buuut anyone here heard the music of this game already? It's recorded at sychron Stage Vienna. And I really like it! The instruments and the sound of the room!

(We don't know yet who the Composer is)


----------



## Critz

Cartoon said:


> Sorry for changing the topic buuut anyone here heard the music of this game already? It's recorded at sychron Stage Vienna. And I really like it! The instruments and the sound of the room!
> 
> (We don't know yet who the Composer is)



Even if the soundtrack of the game has been recorded at Synchron if doesn't mean the trailer music is from those recording as well. Just saying..


----------



## Cartoon

Critz said:


> Even if the soundtrack of the game has been recorded at Synchron if doesn't mean the trailer music is from those recording as well. Just saying..



Synchron Stage posted it on their Facebook page... so I think the music you are hearing in this trailer is also from the recordings


----------



## Sovereign

Cartoon said:


> Synchron Stage posted it on their Facebook page... so I think the music you are hearing in this trailer is also from the recordings


Blue Planet II was recorded at the Synchron stage too, yet Synchron Strings sounds nothing like it.


----------



## Cartoon

Sovereign said:


> Blue Planet II was recorded at the Synchron stage too, yet Synchron Strings sounds nothing like it.



You compare, AGAIN, a sample library with a real orchestra recording... I mean you can hear the accoustic of the hall but of course its not 100% like it

Furthermore its there second "wet" library... give them time


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Cartoon said:


> You compare, AGAIN, a sample library with a real orchestra recording... I mean you can hear the accoustic of the hall but of course its not 100% like it


since samples are real recordings as well, you could still technically get the same _raw *sound* _as in live recordings with the same musicians, hall, mics etc... but the performance will obviously very different since you are playing snapshots of sound in a certain order rather than having a real, flowing performance. But the _sound_ itself could pretty much be captured with samples I'd say. Minus the musicians expression while playing a real piece.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Judging from some recordings, SyS strings actually sounds very much like the Synchron Stage.


----------



## Casiquire

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Judging from some recordings, SyS strings actually sounds very much like the Synchron Stage.



I agree


----------



## Sovereign

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Judging from some recordings, SyS strings actually sounds very much like the Synchron Stage.


A recording of just about anything in the Synchron stage would also sound like the Synchron stage. I'm sure you agree there's more to a library than just the intrinsic hall sound of the recording. In the end the players, the sound engineer, they way they set things up and more all play a role. And to me that is where the divide starts. The hall is great, the execution sucks.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> A recording of just about anything in the Synchron stage would also sound like the Synchron stage. I'm sure you agree there's more to a library than just the intrinsic hall sound of the recording. In the end the players, the sound engineer, they way they set things up and more all play a role. And to me that is where the divide starts. The hall is great, the execution sucks.



What do you mean by 'the execution sucks' ? 

The type of mics they used ? their placements ? the Pre-Amps ? or ... ? 

I would expect VSL to have a first class recording engineer/s that were very experienced, to record the string sections of VSL Synchron Strings players, I don't really understand your critique here.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Sovereign said:


> A recording of just about anything in the Synchron stage would also sound like the Synchron stage. I'm sure you agree there's more to a library than just the intrinsic hall sound of the recording. In the end the players, the sound engineer, they way they set things up and more all play a role. And to me that is where the divide starts. The hall is great, the execution sucks.



Not sure what you're trying to tell me.

Not that I cared, mind you


----------



## novaburst

Not sure if I understood this correctly, if you hire the Synchron hall you also get the engineers with the package.


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> What do you mean by 'the execution sucks' ?
> 
> The type of mics they used ? their placements ? the Pre-Amps ? or ... ?
> 
> I would expect VSL to have a first class recording engineer/s that were very experienced, to record the string sections of VSL Synchron Strings players, I don't really understand your critique here.


Sucks is probably too harsh, I'm still waiting for the Synchron player to see if I'll like it more then. Haven't even bothered to download the violas and 2nd violins yet. As for the sound, to me it remains thin, brittle and lifeless. I just don't like it, it's not the sound they are - in my opinion - advertising with (they reference a number of film and TV productions on the Synchron site as examples and have promoted the Blue Planet video extensively). Obviously only VSL knows how different their method is from those regular productions but I'm sure the recording engineer for Synchron Strings is the regular VSL guy. Film productions might bring their own engineer and I believe that is certainly part of the equation. No one of us knows the recording details. Then there are technical aspects, such as the underperforming legato. In the end it doesn't matter, Synchron Strings as a whole does not come close to the Blue Planet II or Ghost in the Shell sound. Is that bad? If one is happy with the sound as it is, I guess not. But that weak, brittle and lifeless sound is not the sound I was looking for. Ah well.


----------



## SGordB

Apropos of “nobody uses VSL anymore,” a very full-throated endorsement by Gabriel Yared just a couple years ago:  (~11:35).


----------



## Critz

SGordB said:


> Apropos of “nobody uses VSL anymore,” a very full-throated endorsement by Gabriel Yared just a couple years ago:  (~11:35).



He probably talks about 2004...
Nowadays there are many libraries offering same or more articulations than VSL. Not to mention that Synchron Strings is the String library with less articulations ever...


----------



## SGordB

Critz said:


> He probably talks about 2004...
> Nowadays there are many libraries offering same or more articulations than VSL. Not to mention that Synchron Strings is the String library with less articulations ever...



The interview is (c) 2016. Hard to believe an active composer like him is frozen in 2004.


----------



## Critz

SGordB said:


> The interview is (c) 2016. Hard to believe an active composer like him is frozen in 2004.


He's a super famous old composer. He doesn't mind to change his softwares and learn stuff again from scratch. But what he says is totally untrue if he refers to these days. Spitfire, not to mention Orchestral Tools offer even more articulations and features than VSL. How could he say he didn't find that elsewhere? He didn't checked.


----------



## Kristoben

Sovereign said:


> Film productions might bring their own engineer and I believe that is certainly part of the equation.


I definitely agree this is a big part of it. For example those early Synchron stage test recordings done with Conrad Pope were recorded with Dennis Sands I believe.

I often see the criticism that VSL's sterile/cold sound was because of their silent stage without ambience. But now that the Synchron strings share some of the same characteristics I think it's definitely down to recording aesthetics. I don't own the Synchron library but have been unimpressed by everything I've heard. I knew this library would be facing an uphill battle when VSL posted that ugly legato demo.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> He's a super famous old composer. He doesn't mind to change his softwares and learn stuff again from scratch. But what he says is totally untrue if he refers to these days. Spitfire, not to mention Orchestral Tools offer even more articulations and features than VSL. How could he say he didn't find that elsewhere? He didn't checked.



Features, most certainly not.

Yes, Spitfire does have a ton of esoteric articulations that no one needs and that they keep rehashing in every library they release. If you go purely by numbers, yeah, they record tons of stuff, but to me it's incredible how many Spitfire GB on my drives are pure baggage. When you look at the full patches list of an instrument like the VSL Heckelphone, it's just crazy comprehensive, but not because it's full of funny effect playing styles, but because the instrument is made to be able to play almost anything. Your opinions just aren't competent.

An the other comment - well, he's an old guy ... is that your professional opinion? It's like me saying, well, the younger composers, they shy away from anything that isn't Kontakt and doesn't do braaam.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> An the other comment - well, he's an old guy ... is that your professional opinion? It's like me saying, well, the younger composers, they shy away from anything that isn't Kontakt and doesn't do braaam.



Ahah, I think what you say it's true for someone.

Spitfire may offer useless patches, but still they're libraries are quite fine in size (differentely from Synchron libraries). I remember patches "Rachmaninov articulation" that may be useless, but they always offer sul tasto, sul pont, every type of tremolo, etc.
Berlin Strings offers so much. Playable runs, playable glissandi (!!!), several kind of tremolos legato (!!), several kind of shorts. That stuff is totally important working for film sountracks.
Unfortunately these libraries suffer from inconsistency among all sections and some bad samples; that's why many of use was hoping for a better wet strings from VSL.
But I can tell you again: VSL can't sample strings, while they're great with woodwinds and brass, that's why I'm sure Synchron WW and Brass will be great. But I hope to see some new features for this libraries that will be released around 2019 - 2020..


----------



## Piotrek K.

I think that bringing VSL interviews is kinda pointless. As I see it, these guys use those samples because, a) they used to them b) back in a day VSL was the only library that gave them a lot of articulations and c) in the end they will get live performance. In Elfman interview the sound of VSL is not great to put it mildly. On the other hand Kramer did wonderful job with his mock-up (well, because this guy had no live recording gauarantee I guess). But this are only my thoughts.

Going back to synchrons - this library frustrates me more and more and I need to say it, just for sake of saying it. One of my conclusions is that premixed patches are... really not great. They lack details that other mics have. In premixed patches there is almost no difference between lyrical vibrato and standard vibrato for most of the time and standard vibrato sometimes sounds like no vibrato at all. Especially on long notes, which makes me rethink my writing (this is actually good in some way). Actually the old VSL strings has more warmth in them in my opinion. Yes, the ones that are dead and cold.

So, as we won't be getting Synchron Player anytime soon, I started to play with mics to check what I can get there. I loaded VE (despite not using it at all) and SY preset and tried to understand what the hell is in those matrices  And I got frustrated even more because VE is clearly not a tool for multi-mic setup. If I change something manually on one mic matrice I have to do it in the rest. One, by one. Or I missed "global setup" knob.

But - good news - in the end I noticed difference between vibratos! The lyrical is less dead than standard! It has a bit more of pleasent movement in samples. So, by method of elimination I decided that standard vibrato doesn't exist to me. Shame I can't delete those samples...

In general, for me and my ears, huge part of that library is redundant. 1 milion of samples, but I hear no difference between sustain in standard legato vs fast legato. It's the same sounding sustain. Not saying it's the same sample, but maybe it should be. It just strikes me as odd to build so many sustain patches which differ only in transition (except for slow legato) + add to it sustains without transitions. It gives me like 3 kinds of sustain that sound the same x 3 vibrato styles. So it is 9 sets of same sustain samples. I would go for 3... I don't know if it makes any sense.

But on a brighter note:
- I got used to legatos, which doesn't make them any better, but I think I just started to understand what I can / can't do with them. Although legato blur is something I truly dislike. It basically makes legatos well, blury, mushy, ugly. With blur turned on I hear notes sprinkled with poorly made magical audio dust.
- with SS I can do things that was close to impossible with VSS. They are more responsive, more agile, the sound is more detailed (but not nicer)

So yeah, this is my update for April 8th and now waiting for May. Or June. Or Chris Hein strings


----------



## Critz

Piotrek K. said:


> I think that bringing VSL interviews is kinda pointless. As I see it, these guys use those samples because, a) they used to them b) back in a day VSL was the only library that gave them a lot of articulations and c) in the end they will get live performance. In Elfman interview the sound of VSL is not great to put it mildly. On the other hand Kramer did wonderful job with his mock-up (well, because this guy had no live recording gauarantee I guess). But this are only my thoughts.
> 
> Going back to synchrons - this library frustrates me more and more and I need to say it, just for sake of saying it. One of my conclusions is that premixed patches are... really not great. They lack details that other mics have. In premixed patches there is almost no difference between lyrical vibrato and standard vibrato for most of the time and standard vibrato sometimes sounds like no vibrato at all. Especially on long notes, which makes me rethink my writing (this is actually good in some way). Actually the old VSL strings has more warmth in them in my opinion. Yes, the ones that are dead and cold.
> 
> So, as we won't be getting Synchron Player anytime soon, I started to play with mics to check what I can get there. I loaded VE (despite not using it at all) and SY preset and tried to understand what the hell is in those matrices  And I got frustrated even more because VE is clearly not a tool for multi-mic setup. If I change something manually on one mic matrice I have to do it in the rest. One, by one. Or I missed "global setup" knob.
> 
> But - good news - in the end I noticed difference between vibratos! The lyrical is less dead than standard! It has a bit more of pleasent movement in samples. So, by method of elimination I decided that standard vibrato doesn't exist to me. Shame I can't delete those samples...
> 
> In general, for me and my ears, huge part of that library is redundant. 1 milion of samples, but I hear no difference between sustain in standard legato vs fast legato. It's the same sounding sustain. Not saying it's the same sample, but maybe it should be. It just strikes me as odd to build so many sustain patches which differ only in transition (except for slow legato) + add to it sustains without transitions. It gives me like 3 kinds of sustain that sound the same x 3 vibrato styles. So it is 9 sets of same sustain samples. I would go for 3... I don't know if it makes any sense.
> 
> But on a brighter note:
> - I got used to legatos, which doesn't make them any better, but I think I just started to understand what I can / can't do with them. Although legato blur is something I truly dislike. It basically makes legatos well, blury, mushy, ugly. With blur turned on I hear notes sprinkled with poorly made magical audio dust.
> - with SS I can do things that was close to impossible with VSS. They are more responsive, more agile, the sound is more detailed (but not nicer)
> 
> So yeah, this is my update for April 8th and now waiting for May. Or June. Or Chris Hein strings


Totally agree. I would delete one among standard and fast legato. The only legato I use 99% of tim is soft lyr because is the only one with a minimum of musical appeal.
I would delete all the standard vibrato (or please change it with a strong vibrato!!) Every kind of music need it.


----------



## Salorom

I have been following VSL for years. I am a big fan of the Dimension series and managed things with Dimension Strings that I couldn’t with any other libraries as far as realism goes. I immediately bought Synchron Percussion and Strings because like many others I expected VSL to do wonders with wet samples.

I will probably echo a lot of what has already been said here. The quality of the recordings is stunning. High definition, low noise floor, the hall translates beautifully, almost no room adding up or phase issues. I am very impressed with Synchron percussion, both in terms of sound and playability.

In my view, the strings fall short for the same reasons the percussion work so nicely. On a one instrument = one sound basis, precision, clarity and timing are key. Not so much when you record an ensemble of players, who would not perform so surgically in live conditions. Hence their sounding a bit thin and sterile I think, especially the sustains.

VSL wants consistency, that is also what they are praised for, so I suppose it’s a like it or leave it scenario. I will not comment on the legato transitions and staggering amount of layers because I think the first can be fixed, and I’d ultimately rather have more than less regarding the latter.

What bothers me is there is little one can do to add liveliness to a recording of several instruments, and we obviously can’t expect the same magic that happens with Dimension strings when fiddling with the humanize settings. I have high hopes for the Synchron player but I must say I am perplexed.

I’m thinking the brass and woodwinds will meet less frustration than the strings because they are much smaller sections. Their being seated further back also tends to even out play style irregularities or imprecisions in live performances, which will work well with the philosophy behind VSL recordings.


----------



## Casiquire

@Salorom I agree, and this is one reason why I accepted the opportunity to buy Dimension Strings in particular instead of any other VSL strings: the timing and pitch are, for once, controllable. So when I load up a patch I get the standard VSL too-perfect sound but if I play, for example, the violas in two or three separate passes instead of together as one ensemble, that gives me enough variation in timing to sound realistic. We don't have that option with other VSL products.


----------



## Vik

SGordB said:


> Apropos of “nobody uses VSL anymore”...


Don't forget that several very talented/acyive users of this forum, who are well informed about other options (like Muk and Saxer) are also using VSL products regularly.


----------



## Saxer

If the Synchron Player had the possibility to use humanizing per layer there would be hope to add imperfection to the existing sustains. In that case the number of layers would make sense.


----------



## FabioA

Saxer said:


> If the Synchron Player had the possibility to use humanizing per layer there would be hope to add imperfection to the existing sustains. In that case the number of layers would make sense.



I think his point was that with Dimension the humanize acts on every player, while with Synchron it could act only on the whole section (obviously). Imho it helps a bit anyways, but of course it's not the same that having imperfection sampled into recordings.

I already experimented detuning with VI-Pro on Synchron Strings, and using the VE-Pro template to handle the multi mics, that means every mic patch was detuned independentely. I think that could be very interesting and effectively to give some life more actually..


----------



## synergy543

FabioA said:


> I already experimented detuning with VI-Pro on Synchron Strings, and using the VE-Pro template to handle the multi mics, that means every mic patch was detuned independentely. I think that could be very interesting and effective to give some life more actually..


This is a really good idea and it seems to be quite effective though its quite a lot of work to set up for even one section so hopefully VSL will be clever and incorporate such an idea into the software engine. Can we have a wink from Dietz?


----------



## SGordB

Vik said:


> Don't forget that several very talented/acyive users of this forum, who are well informed about other options (like Muk and Saxer) are also using VSL products regularly.



Absolutely, not to mention Guy Bacos who continues to churn out incredible music using any and every sample library VSL can throw at him - Synchron Strings included. The argument I was addressing is that top-tier composers - the big names - appear to have abandoned VSL.


----------



## Eloy

Saxer said:


> If the Synchron Player had the possibility to use humanizing per layer there would be hope to add imperfection to the existing sustains. In that case the number of layers would make sense.


Saxer,
I have been adding imperfection to existing Synchron samples.
Example: Violas -Room mix/full dynamic - Lo-soft Lyv
Split the samples (use duplicate channel - this keeps all of your midi data the same) onto 2 different vipro - slot 1A on one vipro(remove slot 2B)/slot 2A (remove slot 1A) on 2nd vipro,same midi channel. Now change the humanize settings (fall to tune.... and raise “Tun” to higher setting) and attack on 2nd vipro. Play root note (hold it down) with notes moving either above or below root and you have a world of beautiful difference.

Also I have been adding a small amount of reverb using the VSL “Miracle” plug in / 01 “Enhance”- 2.1 Synchron stage (17db mute) to master bus. This really adds fatness/depth to samples.

By the way I am a big fan of yours.

Thank you


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Why is it interesting what "top tier composers" use? So you can produce the same uniform paltry sonication they keep churning out? It's a soulless reproduction industry, why whouldn't they all use the same stuff?


----------



## novaburst

SGordB said:


> The argument I was addressing is that top-tier composers - the big names - appear to have abandoned VSL.



In the music world there will be many trends that come along that will attract you to use different tools and often times the fresh feel of something new or different often courses us to forget or even abandoned what we were once using, it's a way of life in general 

Especially in the dramatic movies there is a trend that comes with it and a certain flavour of music epic trailer, or some thing that has sprung from epic, this of course sets the trend in the type of tools top composers use, hybrid library's is the trend these days if you want the work you must follow the trend so library's like jeagure will be very attractive for them. 

Naturally VSL do not develop stuff like that and stays very close to the natural orchestral core and that is in no way to say you can't do epic or trailer with VSL. 

In short it appears that the industry is dictating what they use and what they write. 

It has become kind of a rat race so it's not the art no more, it's the trend.


----------



## Saxer

Eloy said:


> Saxer,
> I have been adding imperfection to existing Synchron samples.
> Example: Violas -Room mix/full dynamic - Lo-soft Lyv
> Split the samples (use duplicate channel - this keeps all of your midi data the same) onto 2 different vipro - slot 1A on one vipro(remove slot 2B)/slot 2A (remove slot 1A) on 2nd vipro,same midi channel. Now change the humanize settings (fall to tune.... and raise “Tun” to higher setting) and attack on 2nd vipro. Play root note (hold it down) with notes moving either above or below root and you have a world of beautiful difference.
> 
> Also I have been adding a small amount of reverb using the VSL “Miracle” plug in / 01 “Enhance”- 2.1 Synchron stage (17db mute) to master bus. This really adds fatness/depth to samples.
> 
> By the way I am a big fan of yours.
> 
> Thank you


Haha, thank you... finally one fan  What do you wanna drink?

Joke aside, thanks for the tip! I will try that... probably in a couple of weeks as I'm in a project with deadline which keeps me from playing around at the moment. Maybe the Synchron Player comes in the meantime...


----------



## muk

Vik said:


> Don't forget that several very talented/acyive users of this forum, who are well informed about other options (like Muk and Saxer) are also using VSL products regularly.



Thanks a lot for the flowers Vik! You made my monday.


----------



## Eptesicus

I have come back to these and downloaded all the sections now that they are complete and in anticipation of the Synchron Player. One thing i have noticed is that the room mix gives a poor reflection on what this can sound like . Instead I layered all the mic positions and it sounds quite different and by that i mean MUCH better.

With a splash of reverb some bits of this library do sound gorgeous. For example the full strings patch long soft lyrical vibrato with all mics loaded is just gorgeous and you can definitely hear the tone of the Blue Planet 2 soundtrack in there.

The legato is still difficult to get to grips with, but i think once the synchron player is out, i will certainly be using this just purely for the sound of those soft longs.

The super shorts are great too and the highest dynamic layer is brilliant :D


----------



## romantic

Same here ..
Some potential (Sound, Shorts, Layers!)
Some weaknesses (Legato!)
Some frustration (waiting time! - Growing every day)

And now even a new "mini Teaser" of the Piano with even less content and more marketing even increases the frustration ...


----------



## meradium

wow, this thread is still going strong!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Eptesicus said:


> I have come back to these and downloaded all the sections now that they are complete and in anticipation of the Synchron Player. One thing i have noticed is that the room mix gives a poor reflection on what this can sound like . Instead I layered all the mic positions and it sounds quite different and by that i mean MUCH better.
> 
> With a splash of reverb some bits of this library do sound gorgeous. For example the full strings patch long soft lyrical vibrato with all mics loaded is just gorgeous and you can definitely hear the tone of the Blue Planet 2 soundtrack in there.



Absolutely. The mic positions obviously are there for a reason. The room mix on its own can be useful for writing and sketching, but IMO shouldn't be confused with a complete downmix that doesn't need anything else. After all, it's "just" a downmix of all the room mics. Which in turn means one can and should balance it out with close and mid mics. The combo sounds great.


----------



## Casiquire

Just out of curiosity, how does the close mic legato sound? I haven't heard much of it


----------



## Eptesicus

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Absolutely. The mic positions obviously are there for a reason. The room mix on its own can be useful for writing and sketching, but IMO shouldn't be confused with a complete downmix that doesn't need anything else. After all, it's "just" a downmix of all the room mics. Which in turn means one can and should balance it out with close and mid mics. The combo sounds great.



Normally though, the mixes aren't bad in libraries, but this one seems particularly weak. I think the close mics might be too low in the mix which means you lose a fair bit of detail.

The more i mess around with this, with the close mics being prominent, the more i am enjoying it.

I realty want the syncrhon player though because i dont want to get familiar with using it all in VI only for that to be pointless when the new player finally comes out.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Well, VSL finally got to release their new _Synchron Yamaha CFX Piano_, with its dedicated _Synchron Player. _

Looking forward to the new *Synchron Strings Player* to be finally released this month, with no more delays. I think we have waited long enough already.

Hopefully The new _Synchron Player_ will offer :

* Improved Legato functionality/playability
* Improved Workfow
* Other Misc. Improvements

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Critz

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well, VSL finally got to release their new _Synchron Yamaha CFX Piano_, with its dedicated _Synchron Player. _
> 
> Looking forward to the new *Synchron Strings Player* to be finally released this month, with no more delays. I think we have waited long enough already.
> 
> Hopefully The new _Synchron Player_ will offer :
> 
> * Improved Legato functionality/playability
> * Improved Workfow
> * Other Misc. Improvements
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



This library finally looks and sounds impressive!
Also, reasonable price and size imo..


----------



## romantic

So now I am pissed ... Strings still not completely released (Player) but the already have a piano ...
One might say that different people are needed for sample editing and software development, but the piano comes with a new player?

I don't even want to listen to the Demos


----------



## Saxer

If this thread wouldn't come up from time to time I'd have probably forgotten that this library exist at all. Out of use, out of mind...


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

romantic said:


> So now I am pissed ... Strings still not completely released (Player) but the already have a piano ...
> One might say that different people are needed for sample editing and software development, but the piano comes with a new player?
> 
> I don't even want to listen to the Demos



I must say I very much understand this sentiment. SyS are almost a stillbirth because these samples are lying around for a half a year now without really being useable. But all of a sudden, here's the piano with its own player. Strategically unwise, I must say ...


----------



## muk

Saxer said:


> Out of use, out of mind...



You are not happy with the library, Saxer? For me it was the same, I couldn't connect with the sound, the legato, nor how it reacted to cc programming. I gave mine back.


----------



## mobileavatar

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I must say I very much understand this sentiment. SyS are almost a stillbirth because these samples are lying around for a half a year now without really being useable. But all of a sudden, here's the piano with its own player. Strategically unwise, I must say ...



The "completion" price discount is just insulting. If they have put the Synchron Player, I could understand the "completion" story. Without the new player, what is there to COMPLETE????

What's more @ Ilio
Before they offer quite attractive prices with the same listing price as VSL but in USD. Starting in May, that's no longer the case, prices @ Ilio pretty much follow those @ VSL site, which translate to a 20% increase.

While I think it is "fair" for users around the globe, at least VSL or Ilio should have made an announcement prior to the change. Other developers, like Strezov Sampling, had a similar change. Not only did they make an announcement of the change, they did a sale across all products prior to the change.

VSL used to be such a trustable brand... I start to wonder what has happened...


----------



## Saxer

muk said:


> You are not happy with the library, Saxer? For me it was the same, I couldn't connect with the sound, the legato, nor how it reacted to cc programming. I gave mine back.



I actually like the sound... except the legatos. But as I like to customize libraries to my workflow (breath controller and stuff... you know) I decided to wait for the Synchron Player before I go deeper into trying and editing. Maybe the Player will awake the library from it's deep slumber... a long time ahead in a galaxy far, far away...


----------



## Vik

romantic said:


> So now I am pissed ... Strings still not completely released (Player) but the already have a piano ...


I don't have Synchron Strings (haven't bought a VSL lib for 15 years), and I'm not here to defend them.... but it's much easier to make a piano library than a string library - no crossfading, no legatos etc. 
So maybe it's a good idea to release a piano first, using the new player - and sort out issues with the player before they release a massive string library.


----------



## Saxer

Waiting isn't fun and I also think it's not a smart decision to publish half ready libraries. Dimension Strings took one and a half year from publishing the violins to the full section!
On the other hand: I remeber Spitfire Sable published Vol.1 in 2013 and it took nearly two years to get the complete Sable library. Actually the last update to SCSpro happend a few weeks ago... so nearly five years after start. As we know they didn't stop publishing other libraries in between... a few  
Big projects aren't done in a week.


----------



## novaburst

There are many great muckups with SyS with out the player, confirming the library can be used quite easy without the player, yes we were promised a dedicated player for the library but we was not promised any sort of miracle apart from perhaps streamlining making work flow quicker.

While the player is welcome to some degree, I have a gut feeling you perhaps can do more and get more out of the library by just using the existing instrument player, with Vepro or the free instrument. But that remains to be seen.



muziksculp said:


> Well, VSL finally got to release their new _Synchron Yamaha CFX Piano_, with its dedicated _Synchron Player. _



Some what surprised a piano came out, 
I thought I would be seeing Synchron brass or wood winds in the making..

None the less is this telling us that each Synchron library is going to have its own player, hmmmmm interesting and perhaps a little concerned to have a player for each Synchron library.


----------



## Vik

Saxer said:


> Waiting isn't fun and I also think it's not a smart decision to publish half ready libraries.


I totally agree - unless it's clearly advertised that it's half ready. I bought Mural early and thought that this should become a usable main library relatively soon - but it wasn't usable as a main lib even after Mural 2 was released - or Mural 3. I hadn't bought if I knew how incomplete it was - so I'm all for very clear advertising when it comes to when something is planned to be work fully.


----------



## Saxer

Synchron Strings were sold as early bird offer too. It just took longer... as in most cases.


----------



## Eptesicus

Saxer said:


> Synchron Strings were sold as early bird offer too. It just took longer... as in most cases.



Synchron Strings was mis-sold - Nowhere did they say that the sections would be released gradually. They were taking peoples money stating a November release. This then got put back to December and even then buyers only got violins and celli. It was actually completely released in March (!).

The Synchron player is fair enough as they didn't state a release date for that, but the actual library release was dishonest.


----------



## romantic

Eptesicus said:


> The Synchron player is fair enough as they didn't state a release date for that, but the actual library release was dishonest.


Let me quote from vsl page:
_



Synchron Strings I

Click to expand...

_


> opens a new chapter in sampled strings by combining extraordinary musicianship, engineering, recording technology and *software innovation*. (...)
> With _Synchron Strings I_, we have achieved the ultimate in realism and expressiveness, while providing* a new level of ease-of-use.*



_So this definitely indicates that the Player is part of the Library - To be honest the page also states that the player will be available "very soon" which I would not read as "in half a year, or even longer" ...

And until now no word about any compensation ... If they would give Synchron String Buyers additional 50€ / USD off from Synchron Piano or anything like this it would at least feel like a real excuse ..._


----------



## Eptesicus

romantic said:


> Let me quote from vsl page:
> 
> _So this definitely indicates that the Player is part of the Library - To be honest the page also states that the player will be available "very soon" which I would not read as "in half a year, or even longer" ...
> 
> And until now no word about any compensation ... If they would give Synchron String Buyers additional 50€ / USD off from Synchron Piano or anything like this it would at least feel like a real excuse ..._



Oh i agree, 6 months is ridiculous and if it was going to be that long they should have said. However, in terms of what they advertised, they never actually said when the player would be out and always said it would be after library release.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I really want to see some kind of an excuse or something. Some of you experienced the same with Dimension Strings and, maybe, are used to this procedure. But for new customers like me it's very frustrating. There is absolutely no talking about progress (via newsletter etc). I lost a bit of trust in VSL, sorry for that. There was a Synchron Player video promised right after NAMM in january (!), and even this never happened. But, okay, just a video. It can be neglected.

I really hope Synchron Player will fix these legato issues, the overall sound is great.

Another thing that makes me a bit confused (or angry) is that they did a re-structure of their website (e. g. VI series, Synchron series) with all these "old" quotes from Hollywood composers. Funny, because somewhere in the forum was a post about these quotes and the artist videos and that VSL hasn't been used for a long time in Hollywood. I really like the artist videos, but they are very dated. Does anyone know if these composers still use VSL? I don't think so, maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Piotrek K.

At least with every release VSL team is getting better with understanding the term "very soon":

- Synchron Player - 5 months and counting...
- Synchron Pianos - few days after teaser (but with bug on start...)

Which makes me wonder - what went wrong with Player? It is 5 months now since December and even more since first announcement. In Decemebr they must have had hopes for releasing it truly "soon" and not "in X months from now soon". In late January (more than two months after announcement) they have shown working Player (or at least UI) and... silence. Why?

- something was really wrong with engine itself and it couldn't handle so much samples?
- they lost main programmer?
- they are adding functions that they didn't plan until not very good reception of strings?
- they are stalling with release and thinking how to unravel, after all that time, player that is neither revolutionary, nor innovative?

I'm not gonna even address that Pianos got player before strings. Oh, I just did adress that one 

Eh, while VSL as a company really lost in my eyes, I still love my Special Editions.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

The 6 months after the initial release would have been enough to re-record those much critized legato patches everyone seems to hate on, and perhaps some other ones that are missing anyway (portamento, spiccato etc.)


----------



## Eptesicus

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The 6 months after the initial release would have been enough to re-record those much critized legato patches everyone seems to hate on, and perhaps some other ones that are missing anyway (portamento, spiccato etc.)



Indeed.


----------



## Cartoon

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The 6 months after the initial release would have been enough to re-record those much critized legato patches everyone seems to hate on, and perhaps some other ones that are missing anyway (portamento, spiccato etc.)


Don't forget, that they also record filmmusic @synchron stage! They just can do it when nobody booked the stage!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Cartoon said:


> Don't forget, that they also record filmmusic @synchron stage! They just can do it when nobody booked the stage!



Fair enough. But you get the point. As more and more time passes by, it would have been wiser to react to some of the initial criticism instead of stretching the early buyer's patience/understanding even further.


----------



## Eptesicus

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Fair enough. But you get the point. As more and more time passes by, it would have been wiser to react to some of the initial criticism instead of stretching the early buyer's patience/understanding even further.



It is an odd release for sure. It is like they have done everything they could possibly do to **** off their customers for this product.

False advertisement in terms of release dates for the library, further discounts after people had already pre-ordered but before it was even out (and then snarky obstruction when contacting them to sort it), kind of going backwards in terms of legato instead of "reinventing it". Half a year before the actual player designed for it is out.

Don't get me wrong, i still have high hopes that i will use it a lot once the player is out as the overall sound is lovely when layering all the mics, but it has been a very poor intial release.

What makes it worse is that there doesn't appear to have been any genuine apology or acknowledgment that they dropped the ball big time on this one. That is the real kicker.


----------



## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> What makes it worse is that there doesn't appear to have been any genuine apology or acknowledgment that they dropped the ball big time on this one. That is the real kicker.



I agree.

I feel VSL needs to improve their communication skills with their customers, and keep them informed, especially with what's going on with Synchron Strings 1 release, and status. At least apologize, and make their customers feel that they really do matter, give them some incentive to wait, rather than saying that the legatos won't improve with the new Synchron Player. I remember Paul of VSL saying so. He could have said we will try to improve the Legato functionality in the new Synchron Player, or give us a bit of hope, and optimism, instead of being negative. 

I also think that VSL Synchron Strings 1 is a very important library, that is the basis of their entire Synchron Orchestral Line, if they don't get the strings right, they are missing out on the most important section of the orchestra. Hopefully they will fix all the issues, and release it this month.

Getting Synchron Piano out, with some issues again, is not what I was expecting from VSL , given their reputation of being a perfectionist company, with very high-standards of quality control when it comes to their products.

So, what is really going on with Synchron Strings Player is still a mystery, we could still be told that it won't be out in May, and might have to wait until June, or later. Let's hope that's not the case.


----------



## romantic

At least there is some kind of constructive feedback in this thread now 
I just looked up in my emails from 12th Oct:
• All-new _Vienna Synchron Player_ available soon – providing a new level of ease-of-use

So soon means >6 months :(

Anyhow i started by old VIro today to fiddle around a bit again, still like the sound, of most of the patches, but I definitely will not buy anything before I don't get the promised player ...

Regarding the mentioned piano bug ... They made a mistake, they accepted it, and they promised a fix "soon". Assuming that this soon really means soon this is exactly how I would expect VSL to react.

Software errors can happen, planning errors can happen, and also "strategical" decisions (which look like errors) can happen. And all of these things can delay products for several monthes - It is just a question how to communicate this and how to treat customers investing into the company


----------



## muziksculp

romantic said:


> Software errors can happen, planning errors can happen, and also "strategical" decisions (which look like errors) can happen. And all of these things can delay products for several monthes - It is just a question how to communicate this and how to treat customers investing into the company



Exactly, as they say Shit Happens  

It is how you deal with it after it happens, and make sure your customers are well informed, and updated periodically to ease their frustration, and waiting period, especially when it is 6 months + . VSL needs a lot of improvements in their Customer Relations Dept. Their current model is not ideal.


----------



## Cartoon

muziksculp said:


> VSL needs a lot of improvements in their Customer Relations Dept. Their current model is not ideal.



The fun part is because they informed the customers to much about the release date all of this happened!


----------



## muziksculp

Cartoon said:


> The fun part is because they informed the customers to "much about the release date all of this happened!



No, the real problem is they released it too early, they could have kept quiet, then announced, and released it next year, when it is READY ! who would be complaining ?


----------



## wcreed51

CFX Fix is posted


----------



## muziksculp

wcreed51 said:


> CFX Fix is posted



Good, at least they are not promising a fix by next month


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> I agree.
> 
> I feel VSL needs to improve their communication skills with their customers, and keep them informed, especially with what's going on with Synchron Strings 1 release, and status. At least apologize, and make their customers feel that they really do matter, give them some incentive to wait, rather than saying that the legatos won't improve with the new Synchron Player. I remember Paul of VSL saying so. He could have said we will try to improve the Legato functionality in the new Synchron Player, or give us a bit of hope, and optimism, instead of being negative.
> 
> I also think that VSL Synchron Strings 1 is a very important library, that is the basis of their entire Synchron Orchestral Line, if they don't get the strings right, they are missing out on the most important section of the orchestra. Hopefully they will fix all the issues, and release it this month.
> 
> Getting Synchron Piano out, with some issues again, is not what I was expecting from VSL , given their reputation of being a perfectionist company, with very high-standards of quality control when it comes to their products.
> 
> So, what is really going on with Synchron Strings Player is still a mystery, we could still be told that it won't be out in May, and might have to wait until June, or later. Let's hope that's not the case.



My thoughts are some can really make these strings work for them, and some believe it will be the new player that bring the magic,

I am not being silly or negative but my opinion when using the legato against other string library's I do find SyS to be my favourite, it has the feel you can play any sort of legato you want, ok I am not that good a composer, or have a lot of understanding but its like when I use another library I want it to do what SyS does, I am pretty much satisfied with what VSL have done, I am looking to get Diemention Strings but as of now SyS are pretty much unbeatable in my view, and I do believe many are missing the gold nugget. and wanting a familiar library and something that follows tradition.

If one does not take the right approach to this beautiful library you will end up stumbling over and reaching for something else.

If the new player does anything more to the library I would be very surprised because the library really does have a special legato that can be tweaked to how you desire to use it.

The waiting around for many months is not VSLs doing they did provide a library be it in bits and parts but it is 100% fully functional and has no real need for some knight in shinning armour new player to do some sort of magic to the library.

There is a small learning curve to the library but its the real deal.

maybe I am seeing something you and others are just not interested in or maybe I hear strings differently or perhaps your looking for something I cant understand.

It could be over time many may start to notice gold nuggets in this library but its certainly there best in may view.


----------



## Eptesicus

muziksculp said:


> No, the real problem is they released it too early, they could have kept quiet, then announced, and released it next year, when it is READY ! who would be complaining ?



This. I don't believe that they hit a problem that delayed the library release by 4 months, after stating a November release and taking peoples money. I think they knew full well that they were taking peoples money with no hope of a full library release in November.

They should have just pegged the release for March, then the library would have all come out together, and the player would have only been a couple of months after.


----------



## romantic

Eptesicus said:


> I think they knew full well that they were taking peoples money with no hope of a full library release in November.


I don't think so ...

There might be some strategical thinking involved (e.g.: Don't miss Christmas purchasers)
Or some competition observation (xyz will release blahblah, so we at least need to inform our customers that we have something in the pipeline)
Or cashflow considerations (few thousand bucks preorders can help a company to survive, especially if you are convinced that you have a great product in the pipeline coming soon)
But on top of this I am very convinced that they would not have done this if they'd know that it will take more than half a year! Again I am fine with mistakes, just unhappy with the communication (especially to loyal preorder customers) ...


----------



## Eptesicus

romantic said:


> I don't think so ...
> 
> There might be some strategical thinking involved (e.g.: Don't miss Christmas purchasers)
> Or some competition observation (xyz will release blahblah, so we at least need to inform our customers that we have something in the pipeline)
> Or cashflow considerations (few thousand bucks preorders can help a company to survive, especially if you are convinced that you have a great product in the pipeline coming soon)
> But on top of this I am very convinced that they would not have done this if they'd know that it will take more than half a year! Again I am fine with mistakes, just unhappy with the communication (especially to loyal preorder customers) ...



I'm pretty certain they knew. They said it was because of the legato editing and didn't cite any particular issue. Either they were lying about the release date, or were heavily incompetent in estimating the time required for editing the samples ( which i don't believe, considering their experience in doing this).

All anyone wants is transparency and the truth. They likely knew that if they were truthful and said the complete library wont be out till March, they would have had far fewer pre-orders in October!


----------



## romantic

Yes, but the admitted problems with legato editing is not releated to delays in the player? Might be a combination of things ...


----------



## novaburst

Eptesicus said:


> This. I don't believe that they hit a problem that delayed the library release by 4 months, after stating a November release and taking peoples money. I think they knew full well that they were taking peoples money with no hope of a full library release in November.



I think also we should not forget that preorder we got a deal worth 50 to 200 euros cheaper than the asking price, plus there was a 30 day money back if you did not like the library, some did return the library.

So even if you was not happy with what VSL was doing you could have just got your money back. 

But I guess becuase of the deal many held on to the library, 

All I am saying if you commuted your self to the library and was not happy with the way VSL was doing things you could have returned the product and got your many back so there was a way in and also away out. No harm needed to be done.


----------



## Eptesicus

novaburst said:


> I think also we should not forget that preorder we got a deal worth 50 to 200 euros cheaper than the asking price, plus there was a 30 day money back if you did not like the library, some did return the library.
> 
> So even if you was not happy with what VSL was doing you could have just got your money back.
> 
> But I guess becuase of the deal many held on to the library,
> 
> All I am saying if you commuted your self to the library and was not happy with the way VSL was doing things you could have returned the product and got your many back so there was a way in and also away out. No harm needed to be done.




The difficulty with that, is that you didn't have the whole library or the player until after the 30 days were up so even the 30 day money back policy was kind of ruined.


----------



## mobileavatar

Eptesicus said:


> The difficulty with that, is that you didn't have the whole library or the player until after the 30 days were up so even the 30 day money back policy was kind of ruined.



Even with the upcoming new player, I start to wonder what really has been "re-invented" as VSL claimed...
To me, it's not just the disappointment with the quality/realism of the legatos, but how the whole notion of "performance legato" could be more agile (with less key-switching), again as VSL claimed...


----------



## novaburst

Eptesicus said:


> The difficulty with that, is that you didn't have the whole library or the player until after the 30 days were up so even the 30 day money back policy was kind of ruined.



I understand what you are saying. I am just looking at it from what I did.

I did not know that the library was coming in parts, when I committed to the pre order, when Poul from VSL started to explain that the 2nd violins, will be coming later, and the double bass then the viola.

It was made clear how the library was going to be presented and that its going to take some time to have a complete working library, it was then I had the choice to give it back and get my money back and wait until June or July and pay the full price for the library and player but I chose to wait knowing full well that I can't do much with it. And it was not rocket science to understand and if I understood it I am sure many others who committed them selves understood too and indeed some did give the library back. So again no one was forced to hang on to it.

I am glad I have the library I think some others are too,

But the ones that are disappointed did have a choice back in the beginning.

So in all fairness when presenting disappointments I think it's fair to say you chose the root to wait or hang on it was your choice.


----------



## Count_Fuzzball

Probably off-topic, but when you think about it, VSL pioneered the use of recorded intervals for legato in the early 2000s, which was a revolution within itself.

and then what?

We're coming up to nearly 20 years since and there hasn't been as much of a revolution since. Sure, there have been different speed legatos/portamentos, and "True Legato" has become much more commonplace in libraries nowadays.

Audio Impression's 70DVZ and later Dimension Strings and LASS did interesting things with divisi/auto divisi from 2007-2010.

That's it really... :\


----------



## Casiquire

Count_Fuzzball said:


> Probably off-topic, but when you think about it, VSL pioneered the use of recorded intervals for legato in the early 2000s, which was a revolution within itself.
> 
> and then what?
> 
> We're coming up to nearly 20 years since and there hasn't been as much of a revolution since. Sure, there have been different speed legatos/portamentos, and "True Legato" has become much more commonplace in libraries nowadays.
> 
> Audio Impression's 70DVZ and later Dimension Strings and LASS did interesting things with divisi/auto divisi from 2007-2010.
> 
> That's it really... :\



I mean you kind of answered the question right there, Dimension Strings. Which came out after the 2010s, I don't think it was any earlier than 2012, and the manual is dated 2014. But to me, that really is revolutionary.


----------



## muziksculp

romantic said:


> 7 months now ...



Yes, let's Hope that the *Synchron Strings Player* will finally show up this month as they promised.


----------



## Paul T McGraw

I have not been reading every post in this thread, so forgive me if the following is old news. It is new news to me. 

Goran Tschubrilo has some serious midi-performance chops. Check out his Soundcloud page. Anyway, he is offering a free webinar on getting the most out of Synchron Strings. Here is a link to sign up for the live free webinar.

https://events.genndi.com/register/169105139238471639/47918faecb


----------



## muziksculp

Paul T McGraw said:


> I have not been reading every post in this thread, so forgive me if the following is old news. It is new news to me.
> 
> Goran Tschubrilo has some serious midi-performance chops. Check out his Soundcloud page. Anyway, he is offering a free webinar on getting the most out of Synchron Strings. Here is a link to sign up for the live free webinar.
> 
> https://events.genndi.com/register/169105139238471639/47918faecb



Hi Paul,

Thanks for the info. regarding the webinar by Goran Tschubrilo. I registered, and look forward to learning some new tips, and techniques from him. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> Yes, let's Hope that the *Synchron Strings Player* will finally show up this month as they promised.


I think they should take as much time as they need to for testing and debugging, 

There is no need to rush it through just to stand by a date, 

When you think of it SyS is already in full use, and if the player is free then they can take as mush time as they need, I am thinking July August. 

I think those who are waiting for the player ostart using there SyS should start using SyS now with the instrument player already provided.


----------



## Piotrek K.

> I think they should take as much time as they need to for testing and debugging,
> 
> There is no need to rush it through just to stand by a date



In terms of software development you are right. But in terms of customer relations you are far from it.

Imagine that you've got opportunity to work with a live orchestra. The day has come, you are psyched, musicians are reading music and are happy - no brammms and ostinatos. This is gonna be great day! But there is one "but" - conductor is getting late. Guys who arranged the session says to you he will be there soon. Soon. Really soon. Very soon. So you wait. And wait. But the guy / gal is not there. And "Session guys" suddenly stop picking the phone... So after few hours of incredibly tense waiting, you decide: duck that, I'll conduct myself. I've seen it on Youtube! And you do. And musicians are smart, they get you and your sheet music, and in the end you've got not that bad live orchestral performance. Because you worked hard to do this and it worked somehow, but it clearly wasn't an easy win. And few weeks after the session you've got a text message (not even a call):

- Hi novaburst! Conductor is almost there, just wait a bit more! Soooon man!

Basically no hard feelings, but you feel it, deep down - someone is messing with you ;D

And as we wait for SSP (gotta love those abbreviations) I'm wondering - based on what I've seen on Synchron Pianos walkthrough - are they planning to introduce presets also for strings? Will it work for ambient strings? Because it would be interesting.

Also I'm interested if somoene here have Yamaxa and tried to use it with Vienna instruments instead of SPP? Does the player make a difference? Probably shouldn't ask it in Piano thread


----------



## muziksculp

novaburst said:


> I think they should take as much time as they need to for testing and debugging,
> 
> There is no need to rush it through just to stand by a date,
> 
> When you think of it SyS is already in full use, and if the player is free then they can take as mush time as they need, I am thinking July August.
> 
> I think those who are waiting for the player ostart using there SyS should start using SyS now with the instrument player already provided.



Given your logic, we can be waiting forever. Not realistic.

The Synchron Strings Player is way overdue. It was supposed to be out in April, it was not, now we are waiting for it to be out in May. Paul of VSL mentioned they expect it to be out in May. So, let's hope they are able to do so with no more delays. There is something called patience, and it has some limitations too.

Let's also not forget that this is Synchron Strings 1, there will be SS2, and maybe others. They also need to release Synchron Brass, and Woodwinds. 1,2 ..etc. I hope I don't have to wait for my 90th Birthday to be able to use a complete Synchron Orchestra !

Oh and I should also add, that they were able to release their new Synchron Yamaha Piano, with it's dedicated Synchron Player, which I have a feeling contributed to the delay of releasing the Synchron Strings Player, very frustrating, I feel they could have delayed the release of their Synchron Piano, instead of delaying Synchron Strings Player. (Just had to vent this out) !


----------



## Piotrek K.

> Oh and I should also add, that they were able to release their new Synchron Yamaha Piano, with it's dedicated Synchron Player, which I have a feeling contributed to the delay of releasing the Synchron Strings Player, very frustrating, I feel they could have delayed the release of their Synchron Piano, instead of delaying Synchron Strings Player. (Just had to vent this out) !



I believe something went really wrong during development cycle, hence Pianos first. They are "simplier" instruments, easier to handle. No crossfades, no multiple articulations, no articulation stacking, no legatos, no auto legato speed algorithms etc. It seems that with strings they promised things they weren't quite ready to provide at the time and now they are trying to get to those promises step by step. I'd be surprised if SSP would come this month. It would be pleasant surprise, but surprise nontheless.

Fyi, I already incorporated SS into my template. I was just tired of waiting. So now I'm more in "stand by mode"  And I like those strings. Still not sure if they are for me, still not sure if the player will add something more, but like 'em for their agility and overall sound (excluding longer sustains). And to be honest, the only thing that makes me sad is lack of communication from VSL.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Waiting is OK.

But not for 7 months after you already paid for the product.

Of course they delayed the player for the piano. The former is cash they already have. From a business standpoint, I get it of course, but from a customer relations perspective, I wouldn't have expected such a fiasco from a company that's been in the business for so long.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm also frustrated about both the delays in releasing SSPlayer, and the lack of communication from VSL.

If they don't release the SSPlayer this month, I will most likely install it next month, and try using it with VI-Pro 2.

But I really hope this is not the scenario I will have to deal with, given that this is a multi-mic Library, it will surely benefit from the SSPlayer, and the way it organizes this library, since VI-Pro 2 was not designed to naturally accommodate this type of library, and the patch organization is not going to be optimized for VI-Pro 2. I also hope they will address the legato, and maybe other details that can be improved via SSPlayer.


----------



## novaburst

Piotrek K. said:


> Hi novaburst! Conductor is almost there, just wait a bit more! Soooon man!



Haha all the time I was trying to tell you I was there all along the only thing was that I was dressed in my jeans and T shirt and you did not notice me because you was expecting me to dress in a black suit and tie.

Thing is I could have done exactly the same job weather I was in jeans or a black suit.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Of course they delayed the player for the piano. The former is cash they already have. From a business standpoint, I get it of course, but from a customer relations perspective, I wouldn't have expected such a fiasco from a company that's been in the business for so long.



I think the frustration comes from not fully diving into the Strings and living with them

But considering the Piano it would have been quite easy to pull off a player while the piano was in production hence the speed of the player. 

When you consider SyS it appears that the library was.made well before the player. 

If this be the case it may prove difficult to pull off a satisfying player, as it would need to please so many types of users and very fussy ones. 

This is the major reason why VSL need a lot of time to pull this off, and if I was being realistic next year would be a good call for them to get it right and satisfying customers with it as it could mean calling out the string section again for certain phrases to be recorded.


----------



## Piotrek K.

> all the time I was trying to tell you I was there all along the only thing was that I was dressed in my jeans and T shirt and you did not notice me because you was expecting me to dress in a black suit and tie.



I like your way of thinking, but it is not the story I've told, nor the one we live in 

Let's try the other example - you are buying a car. The dealer is telling you that he will install AC soon. You paid for that AC. After 7 months without AC you decided that you've had AC all the time - all you needed to do is to open windows! I know that this is absurd example, but I think it is close to what you are trying to say - "work with what you've got, because it is awesome on its own", right?

But it's not the case here in my opinion. VSL promised Synchron Player and advertised it as one of pieces that will "re-invent" the strings. And contrary to what you say it is not free player - you need to buy expensive (if not bought as an early bird) Synchron Library to get it. On main SS page it's still used to market those strings. And it's still not here. 7 months later. As I said, I understand that develoment takes time and can be tricky. But leaving current customers without updates and still using SP in marketing materials is... well, not cool.

I admire your Zen approach, but I find it almost harmful - when I read your words I see customer who is actually saying that dev doesn't have obligations towards customers after promises been made. It's not about what I can or can't do with current version of SS. It's about things (better workflow, smart algorithms) that I paid for and still didn't get.

I just hope that when they finally release it, it would be really awesome piece of software


----------



## novaburst

Piotrek K. said:


> I like your way of thinking, but it is not the story I've told, nor the one we live in
> 
> Let's try the other example - you are buying a car. The dealer is telling you that he will install AC soon. You paid for that AC. After 7 months without AC you decided that you've had AC all the time - all you needed to do is to open windows! I know that this is absurd example, but I think it is close to what you are trying to say - "work with what you've got, because it is awesome on its own", right?
> 
> But it's not the case here in my opinion. VSL promised Synchron Player and advertised it as one of pieces that will "re-invent" the strings. And contrary to what you say it is not free player - you need to buy expensive (if not bought as an early bird) Synchron Library to get it. On main SS page it's still used to market those strings. And it's still not here. 7 months later. As I said, I understand that develoment takes time and can be tricky. But leaving current customers without updates and still using SP in marketing materials is... well, not cool.
> 
> I admire your Zen approach, but I find it almost harmful - when I read your words I see customer who is actually saying that dev doesn't have obligations towards customers after promises been made. It's not about what I can or can't do with current version of SS. It's about things (better workflow, smart algorithms) that I paid for and still didn't get.
> 
> I just hope that when they finally release it, it would be really awesome piece of software



Yes understood.

I am not sure very one purchased SyS based on there will be a player coming with it (maybe, maybe not) i certainly did not take that root, for me it was the early bird a few hundred pounds off the retail price, second it was there latest Sting library that sealed the deal for me and oh what a special player hmm nice but its not going to stop me from using the Strings and i do not feel hampered using them either.

I guess many will start complaining now that that early bird offer is over and seems to be forgotten i mean the amount of money you saved you can go and get another string library from VSL  so it kind of evens out.

Any way i feel that VSL can slap the new player out with in seconds just to please every one but my deep feeling is it would not have been what they wanted to give, and maybe half cooked.

My thoughts in another post showed concern that the player may not have been working with the strings when the Strings was in production, this in turn could be a setback and in turn they will need a lot of time to make the player special, there is no point in it if it is not special or only contributes in a small way.

Yes the player looks pretty but those colors need to be doing something very special so its got to make eyes turn so for that i am willing to give them all the time they need what ever time they need.


----------



## muziksculp

@novaburst ,

Sorry, but with all due respect, I don't think you are contributing anything positive to this topic. You are basically adding negativity to what's already very negative.


----------



## Casiquire

Almost any tech related industry has a forum out there with this same conversion taking place. Great example, video games. We can point the finger at VSL all we want but they're not the first dev to do something like this and they won't be the last. Saw the same thing happen with video game pre-releases, and that has happened with all different developers too. As a society I believe part of advancing into such a tech driven world is to never buy into pre-releases unless you're satisfied with the CURRENT standing of the product. I'm not blaming the buyer either, just observing what I believe we need to do as a whole.


----------



## muziksculp

The simple fact is that time is very valuable, if we (customers) were to charge a developer for waiting time, maybe the developers would speed up their production time, or try fix whatever is broken faster, but since that's not the case, and will never be, we are under the mercy of their development time.

The valuable lesson I learned from this experience : If you don't want to take any chances, don't buy a product before it is finally released, tested, and is as bug free as possible.


----------



## mobileavatar

Maybe at some point after the initial demo, VSL was reminded that some of the planned features, e.g. poly switch, might infringe intellectual property rights of another company? And that has caused the delay...?


----------



## muziksculp

mobileavatar said:


> Maybe at some point after the initial demo, VSL was reminded that some of the planned features, e.g. poly switch, might infringe intellectual property rights of another company? And that has caused the delay...?



What other company ? This would only be an issue if the (other company) has a Patent filed, and (approved). 

I'm not aware of this being the case. unless I'm missing something about this.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> @novaburst ,
> 
> Sorry, but with all due respect, I don't think you are contributing anything positive to this topic. You are basically adding negativity to what's already very negative.



@muziksculp you can have people to come on here and say things they don't mean just to go with the flow of your thinking, and sounds OK to you to make you feel better, or you can have people to speak the truth and what is really on there heart.

The latter is pure and is not fake, but will be uncomfortable to many.

If you feel uncomfortable or bad vibes from my post then you can use the ignore function provided and just read post that make you feel good. 

But I am not going to be fake just for that sake of sounding good and articulat.


----------



## muziksculp

novaburst said:


> @muziksculp you can have people to come on here and say things they don't mean just to go with the flow of your thinking, and sounds OK to you to make you feel better, or you can have people to speak the truth and what is really on there heart.
> 
> The latter is pure and is not fake, but will be uncomfortable to many.
> 
> If you feel uncomfortable or bad vibes from my post then you can use the ignore function provided and just read post that make you feel good.
> 
> But I am not going to be fake just for that sake of sounding good and articulat.



I have no problem reading your posts, You are more than welcome to spill more of the negative beans around here. I'm getting used to it after 136 pages of posts on this thread.

I'm open to all comments. Maybe I'm just fed up of waiting, (I guess you are not), and that's showing up in my reply, (Sorry If I came across as rude or negative, I didn't mean it that way). 

Let's keep this topic alive, and fun. Maybe, and Hopefully we can celebrate the release of *Synchron Strings Player* this month. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## mobileavatar

muziksculp said:


> What other company ? This would only be an issue if the (other company) has a Patent filed, and (approved).
> 
> I'm not aware of this being the case. unless I'm missing something about this.



I meant VSL probably faces a lot of challenges (more than we could imagine). VSL does not need to feed its customers every single detail.
(And we are not necessarily always aware of what we're aware of.)


----------



## muziksculp

mobileavatar said:


> I meant VSL probably faces a lot of challenges (more than we could imagine). VSL does not need to feed its customers every single detail.
> (And we are not necessarily always aware of what we're aware of.)



You Wrote, _Quote : Maybe at some point after the initial demo, VSL was reminded that some of the planned features, e.g. poly switch, might infringe intellectual property rights of another company? And that has caused the delay...?_

I doubt this is the reason for the delay to release their Synchron Strings Player, The Proof is they have already released their Synchron Piano Player. it's much simpler than what they have to do with Synchron Strings Player, but I couldn't imagine it being a Patent issue.


VSL needs to just inform us of the general status of things, no need for details, just a simple paragraph.. i.e. They can say : We have made a lot of progress with the new Synchron Strings Player, and look forward to release it in the next few weeks. That will make me very happy. I don't need any more details.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> Let's keep this topic alive, and fun. Maybe, and Hopefully we can celebrate the release of *Synchron Strings Player* this month.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Yes I am with you, let's hope they can do what they need to do with the player to make it special, and unique..


----------



## Leo

More and more I have a feeling, that the Player will be nice colored mixer with some ordinary functions (ala fake slur) and the result will be embarrassed. 
I wish I was wrong. Still I do not understand for what they need so much time. Only that they know themselves do not offer anything new. Sorry for my dark view, but I already lost my patience with this strings.


----------



## Tfis

Setting up mic positions with VIPro is a PITA.

I really hope, they don't drop any functions from VIPro, in order to make synchron player "easier to use".


----------



## Casiquire

I have to agree that I don't believe the player actually does much new, we've already seen some video of it. It seems more like just a better way of handling Synchron libraries.


----------



## Dear Villain

The problem with having to wait so many months for the player, is that people have heightened expectations that it will be "game changing", so if it just ends up being a Synchron-optimized player, that doesn't improve the legato issues, or offer a more intuitive/efficient articulation selection method, everyone will be disappointed, more so because of the super long wait and promises made by VSL when they first accepted preorders.

Dave


----------



## Eptesicus

In my opinion, the legato won't get better, at least not by much. For it to be better, they need to go back and re-record it.

I don't really know a huge amount about sample development, but to my ears the main problem appears to be that the attacks on the long notes (non soft especially) are too much, and it is clear they only recorded transitions and not the full new note AFTER the transition. They use the same sustain for all the legato patches with just a transition stuck in between so it will never sound natural.

How common is it for this to be the case with legato? I know that for many of the libraries i have, the note after the transition is a completely new sustain in the legato patches.

I may be completely talking out of my ass here but i am pretty sure this is the case ( to my ears anyway)

I have the faintest of hopes that they will go back and re-record the legato part of the library, because if this is supposed to be their new flagship product line, the legato strings will be severely lacking compared to the competition.

It is a REAL shame, because everything else sounds really lovely and the sound quality and tone is superb.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I don't expect the Synchron Player to change anything about the legato. People are setting themselves up for a major disappointment if they're expecting this.
In order to improve anything about the legati, they'd have to be re-recorded and that most certainly isn't gonna happen.

But for me, that's not the point. I've made my peace with the legato patches. It is what it is. Legato is overused anyway. I remember a thread here on VI-C where the question was how often/in which situations people used legato patches. Many people - perhaps even the majority - said they actually used them by default, unless they needed short notes or chords. Which to me is crazy.

What I expect from the Synchron Player is a better organization of the library. I can't really work with it in VI Pro. I'm not gonna invest a ton of time in setting up the whole library in the old player, only to toss it all out of the window when the new one finally comes out. It's just too much work with all the patches and mic positions. That's all I expect from the Synchron Player - to get all the manual labor and fiddly nonsense out of my way while I'm experimenting with the library itself.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

omiroad said:


> I really wonder how a string player would react if you told them "legato is overrated".



They should shut up and practice spiccato more.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Eptesicus said:


> How common is it for this to be the case with legato? I know that for many of the libraries i have, the note after the transition is a completely new sustain in the legato patches.



I think it's (always) the same sustain, but the attack of the second one is modified. I posted many, many pages earlier the technique which is used in Hollywood Strings. The advantage with the Play engine is that you can actually see how the legato (and other articulations) is done. The legato is separated into the sustain part and the legato transition part, so you can activate or deactivate each of them. When you deactivate the transition samples and play a legato note, you can hear that the first sustain is "normal" and the attack of second one fades in.

Unfortunately, there isn't such a control in VI Pro. This feature would be awesome, but I think it's not compatible with VSL scripting (I am only guessing here). I don't know for sure, but I think VSL's legato transitions are stuck to the following sustains. You can only modify the legato transition with the stretch feature, and not the fade-in of the following sustain part. If I'm wrong, please correct me.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm crossing my fingers, hoping that Synchron Strings Player will be out this month, with no additional delays.


Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I think it's (always) the same sustain, but the attack of the second one is modified. I posted many, many pages earlier the technique which is used in Hollywood Strings. The advantage with the Play engine is that you can actually see how the legato (and other articulations) is done. The legato is separated into the sustain part and the legato transition part, so you can activate or deactivate each of them. When you deactivate the transition samples and play a legato note, you can hear that the first sustain is "normal" and the attack of second one fades in.
> 
> Unfortunately, there isn't such a control in VI Pro. This feature would be awesome, but I think it's not compatible with VSL scripting (I am only guessing here). I don't know for sure, but I think VSL's legato transitions are stuck to the following sustains. You can only modify the legato transition with the stretch feature, and not the fade-in of the following sustain part. If I'm wrong, please correct me.



I think the best answer to this will be from VSL directly, I don't know if anyone of us knows exactly how they have setup their Legato system for certain. We are mostly guessing at it.


----------



## muziksculp

Is the main issue with the current Legato system of Synchron Strings is that it sounds bumpy /sudden when it plays from the transition segment to the target sustain note, rather than sounding smooth and continious ?

I wonder if their new Synchron Player can use a custom script to fix the bumpy slide from the Legato segment to the target sustain note. The script can duck the volume of the bumpy part, or fade into it, or .. whatever, to do whatever is needed to fix the issue. I really don't know if this is possible, or not, but just wanted to mention it. If this is not possible due to some technicality, then that's another story, but if it is possible, this can be an improvement that the new Synchron Player can offer.


----------



## Spike2000

My theory on the delay (which pisses me off) is:

They thought it would be done sooner (that's it...no I joke)
The recording and editing of the CFX piano samples finished
With limited developers, they had to choose between finishing the Synchron Player for strings (and fulfilling their promise to those who purchased the strings library) or make more money and finish the player for piano first. They chose the latter.
Now they are bug fixing the player for piano while completing the unreleased player for strings.

The only good I see out of this is that at least we know they have a player that will simplify the task of working with multiple mic positions.


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> Is the main issue with the current Legato system of Synchron Strings is that it sounds bumpy /sudden when it plays from the transition segment to the target sustain note, rather than sounding smooth and continious ?
> 
> I wonder if their new Synchron Player can use a custom script to fix the bumpy slide from the Legato segment to the target sustain note. The script can duck the volume of the bumpy part, or fade into it, or .. whatever, to do whatever is needed to fix the issue. I really don't know if this is possible, or not, but just wanted to mention it. If this is not possible due to some technicality, then that's another story, but if it is possible, this can be an improvement that the new Synchron Player can offer.


It really all depends on how they 'graft' the legato transitions onto the sustains, and how much of those transitions is there in the files. IMO they cut too deep into the transitions. Either way, in the end it is useless to us as no one other than VSL can improve it. And if they still feel this is next generation legato sampling - ahem - and refuse to consider the considerable amount of criticism, well then I guess it ends there.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> Either way, in the end it is useless to us as no one other than VSL can improve it. And if they still feel this is next generation legato sampling - ahem - and refuse to consider the considerable amount of criticism, well then I guess it ends there.



I agree. Hopefully they are not ignoring the criticism.

I would also like to add that given the time they are taking to release their Synchron Strings Player, I could deduct that the new SSPlayer is most likely not just a new organizational hub for the library's structure, that manages, and provides controls over the various mic levels, and which samples to load based on the articulation selected, that would have been a less challenging, and more direct task, but once you introduce additional mechanisms of control to improve, and customize the functionality of the new SSPlayer, then that could lead to some quite complex programming, and require more time to perfect. So, it could be the latter scenario that is contributing to the delay, hence more time needed to finally release it. (Again all this is speculation).

We only have two more weeks to go to the end of this month, so let's see what happens.


----------



## mobileavatar

If nothing really new is added to the new player, they should really take out their slogan "Strings re-invented" and change it to "Strings re-packaged".

I wonder how the marketing misrepresentation laws work in Europe.


----------



## Eptesicus

Sovereign said:


> It really all depends on how they 'graft' the legato transitions onto the sustains, and how much of those transitions is there in the files. IMO they cut too deep into the transitions. Either way, in the end it is useless to us as no one other than VSL can improve it. And if they still feel this is next generation legato sampling - ahem - and refuse to consider the considerable amount of criticism, well then I guess it ends there.



I just find it so strange. It isn't like they don't know how to do good legato. I find it odd that they listened to the library and mocked things up with the legatos and thought "yeh that sounds like the latest and greatest string sound that we wanted for our new flagship range". This is from the company that pioneered legato stuff as well.

It is all very odd.


----------



## Critz

The only thing they re-invented is the meaning of the word "soon".


----------



## muziksculp

Critz said:


> The only thing they re-invented is the meaning of the word "soon".



Yes, that we should give them credit for.


----------



## Dear Villain

From VSL's Forum:

Hi Eloy,
We are definitely getting closer.
We will announce the release only when we are ready.
Really sorry to keep you all waiting like this, it is a bigger task than we hoped, and it will turn out great.
But it really takes everything we have to make this player the foundation for our upcoming products.
The Synchron Pianos has helped a lot with optimization, and we are thriving on that.
Thanks for bearing with us!
Paul


----------



## Eptesicus

Dear Villain said:


> From VSL's Forum:
> 
> Hi Eloy,
> We are definitely getting closer.
> We will announce the release only when we are ready.
> Really sorry to keep you all waiting like this, it is a bigger task than we hoped, and it will turn out great.
> But it really takes everything we have to make this player the foundation for our upcoming products.
> The Synchron Pianos has helped a lot with optimization, and we are thriving on that.
> Thanks for bearing with us!
> Paul



Looks like May is out of the window. Perhaps we should spam the VSL forums with JT


----------



## muziksculp

Dear Villain said:


> From VSL's Forum:
> 
> Hi Eloy,
> We are definitely getting closer.
> We will announce the release only when we are ready.
> Really sorry to keep you all waiting like this, it is a bigger task than we hoped, and it will turn out great.
> But it really takes everything we have to make this player the foundation for our upcoming products.
> The Synchron Pianos has helped a lot with optimization, and we are thriving on that.
> Thanks for bearing with us!
> Paul



Great, So.. that means it will be out SOON !


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> Great, So.. that means it will be out SOON !


Coming in December.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> Coming in December.



That's quite SOON


----------



## muziksculp

Teasing aside, I am happy to see VSL/Paul post some feedback on the status of the Synchron Strings Player's progress. It was about time they said something. 

All we can do now is wait, and wait more... until they have it ready for release, be it in May or later.


----------



## Eptesicus

Do you think re-recording the legato stuff would be an option they would consider?

If this is supposed to be their flagship new series of products, how can they expect people to be using the Synchron series as their main orchestra when the legato strings just do not sound right? The brass and woodwind might end up being brilliant, but if you want a coherent sounding orchestra, recorded in the same hall you won't be able to use the Synchron series because the strings will ruin it.

Commercially i don't see how ignoring the complaints about the legato is in any way in their favour. Personally i think it needs to be addressed. I have no doubt Paul himself knows full well something is not right with it, so i don't see what pretending that it sounds great does. We are all musicians and have ears so we know it doesn't sound right.


----------



## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> Do you think re-recording the legato stuff would be an option they would consider?
> 
> If this is supposed to be their flagship new series of products, how can they expect people to be using the Synchron series as their main orchestra when the legato strings just do not sound right? The brass and woodwind might end up being brilliant, but if you want a coherent sounding orchestra, recorded in the same hall you won;t be able to use Synchron because the strings will ruin it.
> 
> Commercially i don't see how ignoring the complaints about the legato is in anyway in their favour.



Maybe Paul/VSL will reply to your post on the VSL forum, (noticed you posting this question there), to provide more feedback on this very important detail.


----------



## Eptesicus

muziksculp said:


> Maybe Paul/VSL will reply to your post on the VSL forum, to provide more feedback on this very important detail.



I hope so. I know the post is a bit harsh, but it is the truth and i think just pretending that it sounds great will not help them in the long run.

I was prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt, but the more i play with the full library now, the more i can see that the legato is unworkable.


----------



## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> I hope so. I know the post is a bit harsh, but it is the truth and i think just pretending that it sounds great will not help them in the long run.



Well, if they don't reply/ignore your post, you know where they are heading.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I recently bought Symphony Series Strings and for me the legato sounds similar to Synchron Strings. I also tested Chris Hein String Ensemble via Best Service and deactivated the scripted legato. For me the recorded legato sounds similar, too. It's just a legato without a pronounced slur or portamento-like transition. The total opposite is, for example, Hollywood Strings, Cinematic Studio Strings or even the older VSL strings.

Of course, I'm hoping to see some improvements with Synchron Player. But I'm not sure whether there is a problem with the legato at all. It's just a different kind of legato (= a bowed one?). But I think you guys are right with your opinions (= the legato is unworkable), because I am really a beginner when it comes to sample libraries and own just a few to make a statement to what a proper legato has to sound like.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I am also very interested in the upcoming Synchron Strings training by Goran Tchubrilo: https://events.genndi.com/register/169105139238471639/47918faecb

He has a Synchron Strings demo on Soundcloud. But I don't like the sound at all, sorry.


What do you think?


----------



## Tfis

I took their VSL course, 2 years (+/-) ago.


----------



## Sovereign

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I am also very interested in the upcoming Synchron Strings training by Goran Tchubrilo: https://events.genndi.com/register/169105139238471639/47918faecb
> 
> He has a Synchron Strings demo on Soundcloud. But I don't like the sound at all, sorry.
> 
> 
> What do you think?



On its own that demo is not bad, but it certainly is not a lush sound. As someone else mentioned, I actually also think their older string products sound better.


----------



## Leo

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I am also very interested in the upcoming Synchron Strings training by Goran Tchubrilo: https://events.genndi.com/register/169105139238471639/47918faecb
> 
> He has a Synchron Strings demo on Soundcloud. But I don't like the sound at all, sorry.
> 
> 
> What do you think?



its true magic, when i listen I returned back 10-12 years in time  vsl bring me memories of youth, thnx.


----------



## romantic

So now there is the next library released, and still no Synchron String Player for us? Or at least a short "we still have to do minimal fine tuning and will release it next week"?
I really hope it is just a question of hours now - so I will try to be optimistic again and wait for tuesday (monday is public holiday in vienna)


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Paul from VSL posted this in the FX Strings release thread:
_"SYNCHRON STRINGS I UPDATE: The content for Synchron Strings I is currently in preparation for release and we are confident that we can add the Synchron Strings I download files very soon."
_
The way I understand this, they apparently need to provide some files for SyS in order for the lib to be ran in the Synchron Player, and are in the process of preparing them. I assume they will provide a download for the Player as soon as these files are ready. Of course, nobody knows at this point what "very soon" in regards to Synchron Strings actually means.


----------



## Salorom

I just posted the same reply in the Sy FX S 1 thread as the question was raised there too:

I am thinking the reason we see Sy FX S 1 come with the new player while those who bought SyS 1 are still left waiting might be good news.

The fact that the Yamaha CFX and Sy FX S 1 both came with the Synchron player leads me to believe the software part has now been ready for some time, and VSL didn’t release it for strategic reasons.

Maybe they did go with new recordings for SyS 1 and are now implementing them, hence the long delay. Then they have their customers download the additional content as a mere compatibility update for the Synchron player, so it doesn’t look like they’ve spent that much time actually fixing the library. And when the legato sounds so nice at last everyone thinks the player was definitely the missing piece.

This is all pure speculation but I do hope I’m right. I’d rather have it that way than being stuck with both a library that is half broken + a slap in my face as a customer.


----------



## Eptesicus

Salorom said:


> I just posted the same reply in the Sy FX S 1 thread as the question was raised there too:
> 
> I am thinking the reason we see Sy FX S 1 come with the new player while those who bought SyS 1 are still left waiting might be good news.
> 
> The fact that the Yamaha CFX and Sy FX S 1 both came with the Synchron player leads me to believe the software part has now been ready for some time, and VSL didn’t release it for strategic reasons.
> 
> Maybe they did go with new recordings for SyS 1 and are now implementing them, hence the long delay. Then they have their customers download the additional content as a mere compatibility update for the Synchron player, so it doesn’t look like they’ve spent that much time actually fixing the library. And when the legato sounds so nice at last everyone thinks the player was definitely the missing piece.
> 
> This is all pure speculation but I do hope I’m right. I’d rather have it that way than being stuck with both a library that is half broken + a slap in my face as a customer.



I admire your optimism, but i am not getting my hopes up for re-recorded legato at this stage. Even though i absolutely think that is what needs to be done.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t48776-Synchron-Player-not--in-My-VSL#post271971


----------



## Salorom

Fingers are crossed...


----------



## HBen

Yes, that's because you will need brand-new sample content that is packed in a new format. We are just preparing that data for you. 

So there will be another download for Synchron Strings I and Synchron Percussion I, which will work with the new Synchron Player. 

And once this sample content is available, you will also have access to the Synchron Player download. 


Salorom said:


> Fingers are crossed...



It looks like that your speculation is correct.


----------



## Sovereign

Well cool, can only applaud additional content.


----------



## Eptesicus

Hm, it really sounds like Paul just means you need to re-download the whole massive thing again because it is just packed in a new format....

I don't think he means there will be additional content.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Eptesicus said:


> Hm, it really sounds like Paul just means you need to re-download the whole massive thing again because it is just packed in a new format....
> 
> I don't think he means there will be additional content.



That's how it sounds to me.


----------



## Salorom

Maybe so, although if I wanted to fix this library without making it too obvious, this is how I would proceed. We’ll find out soon enough.


----------



## HBen

Eptesicus said:


> Hm, it really sounds like Paul just means you need to re-download the whole massive thing again because it is just packed in a new format....
> 
> I don't think he means there will be additional content.



Alright


Salorom said:


> Maybe so, although if I wanted to fix this library without making it too obvious, this is how I would proceed. We’ll find out soon enough.



I like your conspiracy theory, let's wait and see, we'll find it out VERY SOON.


----------



## Salorom

HBen said:


> I like your conspiracy theory



Ha, in truth this SyS 1 conundrum gives me a headache. I have already bought everything Synchron and I really want the whole library to work as well as it should in the future. The sound is wonderful, but if the String section is broken then everything else will mostly be. As a long-time very happy VSL customer I think I can’t bring myself to accept they would settle for mediocre.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I don't see how the library is "broken" though. I don't think VSL sees it that way. Some people act as if the library was some kind of an unusable trainwreck. The standard legato patch is weird, yes, but other than that?


----------



## Eptesicus

Salorom said:


> Ha, in truth this SyS 1 conundrum gives me a headache. I have already bought everything Synchron and I really want the whole library to work as well as it should in the future. The sound is wonderful, but if the String section is broken then everything else will mostly be. As a long-time very happy VSL customer I think I can’t bring myself to accept they would settle for mediocre.



This is the problem and what i have said as well. I don't see , from a business perspective, how they can carry on the Synchron series with the current legato strings.

It makes selling it as a whole orchestral package recorded in the same room totally useless if the legato strings are so far behind the competition (and even behind their previous stuff!).

Good legato strings is literally one of the most important aspects of an orchestral sample library, if not THE most important.


----------



## HBen

Salorom said:


> Ha, in truth this SyS 1 conundrum gives me a headache. I have already bought everything Synchron and I really want the whole library to work as well as it should in the future. The sound is wonderful, but if the String section is broken then everything else will mostly be. As a long-time very happy VSL customer I think I can’t bring myself to accept they would settle for mediocre.



Yes, me too, I bought almost all of Synchron products and I really hope they do so.

However, Paul said it is a "brand-new sample content", so it should be something re-recorded, instead of simply repackaging the old ones.


----------



## Critz

HBen said:


> Yes, that's because you will need brand-new sample content that is packed in a new format. We are just preparing that data for you.
> 
> So there will be another download for Synchron Strings I and Synchron Percussion I, which will work with the new Synchron Player.
> 
> And once this sample content is available, you will also have access to the Synchron Player download.
> 
> 
> It looks like that your speculation is correct.


...No.
It just means you have to download it again because the format is different. Samples are the same. Yes..it's nice to dream, but you really think they will hide new samples (new legato) to make us believe it is the player doing the magic?
If they would have recorded new stuff, they would claim it. HZ Strings already recorded new material to update the library (you can see it in your instagram profile) and they also had to pay for AIR studios. Why should VSL not be able to record samples again, and just in case, why should they pretend they did not?
To make a long story short: there are NOT new samples in Synchron Strings I. The legato could be improved or not just according to the new software.


----------



## Eptesicus

Critz said:


> ...No.
> It just means you have to download it again because the format is different. Samples are the same. Yes..it's nice to dream, but you really think they will hide new samples (new legato) to make us believe it is the player doing the magic?
> If they would have recorded new stuff, they would claim it. HZ Strings already recorded new material to update the library (you can see it in your instagram profile) and they also had to pay for AIR studios. Why should VSL not be able to record samples again, and just in case, why should they pretend they did not?
> To make a long story short: there are NOT new samples in Synchron Strings I. The legato could be improved or not just according to the new software.



Indeed. It would be nice if VSL swallowed their pride and admitted what everyone with ears can hear. The legato needs re-doing.


----------



## Sovereign

"We are testing and preparing this sample content for Synchron Strings I as we speak, and the download will be available soon. Of course you will be notified as soon as it is available."

Looks like it is coming today?


----------



## C-Wave

They usually release on Fridays.


----------



## Sovereign

I forgot for a moment their "soon" is rather flexible.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> "We are testing and preparing this sample content for Synchron Strings I as we speak, and the download will be available soon. Of course you will be notified as soon as it is available."
> 
> Looks like it is coming today?



I just hope it is released this month. 

There is a live VSL Synchron Strings 1 Webinar on Saturday, May 26th, by _Goran Tchubrilo. _

It would make a lot of sense that he shows Synchron Strings 1 running in the Synchron Strings 1 Player, rather than the VI-Pro2. So, maybe they will finally release Syn-Strings 1 Player on Friday (May 25th) !


----------



## teclark7

The Synchron Player manual is now up: 

http://eu.vsl.co.at/downloader.aspx?FileID=137174


----------



## muziksculp

teclark7 said:


> The Synchron Player manual is now up:
> 
> http://eu.vsl.co.at/downloader.aspx?FileID=137174



Cool ! that's a good sign. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Dear Villain

With the anticipation of the Synchron Player, I just finished an orchestral piece that blends Synchron and orchestral strings. I posted it on the composition thread, but it's probably more useful here for those that want to hear how the legato sounds blended. I wasn't satisfied with Synchron in their own, but blended, I'm happier with the results. It was a ton of work sculpting the Synchron midi separate from simply copying the orchestral string midi in, as the number of velocity layers and different articulations between the two libraries complicated things. 

So, if you don't have the time/desire to listen to a 9 minute piece, check out the opening and closing minutes for the slower legato.



Let's hope the player makes Synchron more efficient and useable!

Dave


----------



## novaburst

I think this piece would have been hard work with any string library, fantastic piece


----------



## Dear Villain

novaburst said:


> I think this piece would have been hard work with any string library, fantastic piece


Thank you novaburst...I definitely am sucker for punishment because I don't write to the samples, so it's always a lot more work taking a completed Finale score and shaping a performance than it is to compose directly in a DAW, regardless of which library is used.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Dear Villain ,

Thanks for sharing this intricate, and very interesting composition. 



Dear Villain said:


> I wasn't satisfied with Synchron in their own, but blended



Could you elaborate on this ? 

i.e. You were not satisfied with the Synchron Legato, or the sound character ? and did you use Orchestral Strings to improve the way the legato sounded in Synchron Legato (when used alone) ? Can you describe what bothered you in Synchron Strings ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Dear Villain

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Dear Villain ,
> 
> Thanks for sharing this intricate, and very interesting composition.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you elaborate on this ?
> 
> i.e. You were not satisfied with the Synchron Legato, or the sound character ? and did you use Orchestral Strings to improve the way the legato sounded in Synchron Legato (when used alone) ? Can you describe what bothered you in Synchron Strings ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp



Yes, exactly as you said. On it's own, I could not get the Synchron legato to sound smooth and connected (exactly as so many have discussed), in spite of experimenting with the legato "blur", humanizing features, extending note lengths to overlap slightly, etc. etc. The orchestral strings provided that extra cohesion that essentially "filled in the gaps". As many have speculated, I think the Synchron attacks are too harsh/present and don't allow subsequent notes to sound connected (almost as if a marcato is on the beginning of each note).

That said, the richness of the sound is a Synchron plus, in my opinion. I worked first to shape the orchestral strings and then copied them to Synchron when completed. I was surprised at how much additional work was needed with the Synchron tracks, because they behaved completely different from the orchestral strings (notes would pop unexpectedly, no doubt due to the additional velocity layers, etc.)

I can't honestly say if the end result is worth the extra effort. The orchestral version on it's own was much preferred to the Synchron version on it's own, but together I guess it's somewhat improved.

Dave


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I just got this from VSL via email. So hopefully we are not too far away from getting *Synchron Strings 1 Player*.

-------------------------
_Quote :_
*UPDATE for all Synchron Strings I Users*
_At this point, we’d like to inform our loyal users of *Synchron Strings I* who are eagerly waiting for our new Synchron Player. Currently we’re working full steam on the necessary conversion of the sample content that we will provide to you together with the new customized Synchron Player shortly, free of charge. Thank you for your patience!

Best wishes from Vienna,
Your Vienna Symphonic Library Team
--------------------------

_


----------



## muziksculp

Dear Villain said:


> Yes, exactly as you said. On it's own, I could not get the Synchron legato to sound smooth and connected (exactly as so many have discussed), in spite of experimenting with the legato "blur", humanizing features, extending note lengths to overlap slightly, etc. etc. The orchestral strings provided that extra cohesion that essentially "filled in the gaps". As many have speculated, I think the Synchron attacks are too harsh/present and don't allow subsequent notes to sound connected (almost as if a marcato is on the beginning of each note).
> 
> That said, the richness of the sound is a Synchron plus, in my opinion. I worked first to shape the orchestral strings and then copied them to Synchron when completed. I was surprised at how much additional work was needed with the Synchron tracks, because they behaved completely different from the orchestral strings (notes would pop unexpectedly, no doubt due to the additional velocity layers, etc.)
> 
> I can't honestly say if the end result is worth the extra effort. The orchestral version on it's own was much preferred to the Synchron version on it's own, but together I guess it's somewhat improved.
> 
> Dave



Thanks for the detailed feedback.

I really hope that the final version of the Synchron Strings 1 Legatos when used with the new Synchron Player will fix these issues. It must be very aggravating to go through all what you went through to fix a legato issue, given this is supposed to be a first-class strings library from VSL. I'm still optimistic that they will have this fixed once the library is used in the new Synchron Player.


----------



## Casiquire

Dear Villain said:


> With the anticipation of the Synchron Player, I just finished an orchestral piece that blends Synchron and orchestral strings. I posted it on the composition thread, but it's probably more useful here for those that want to hear how the legato sounds blended. I wasn't satisfied with Synchron in their own, but blended, I'm happier with the results. It was a ton of work sculpting the Synchron midi separate from simply copying the orchestral string midi in, as the number of velocity layers and different articulations between the two libraries complicated things.
> 
> So, if you don't have the time/desire to listen to a 9 minute piece, check out the opening and closing minutes for the slower legato.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's hope the player makes Synchron more efficient and useable!
> 
> Dave




Wonderfully well-done! This is so fantastic. Did you use MIR to get all of the sounds into Synchron or are you using a different reverb or different hall sound? Thanks for sharing this.


----------



## Eptesicus

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just got this from VSL via email. So hopefully we are not too far away from getting *Synchron Strings 1 Player*.
> 
> -------------------------
> _Quote :_
> *UPDATE for all Synchron Strings I Users*
> _At this point, we’d like to inform our loyal users of *Synchron Strings I* who are eagerly waiting for our new Synchron Player. Currently we’re working full steam on the necessary conversion of the sample content that we will provide to you together with the new customized Synchron Player shortly, free of charge. Thank you for your patience!
> 
> Best wishes from Vienna,
> Your Vienna Symphonic Library Team
> --------------------------
> _



Free of charge! How nice of them and how nice of them to reinforce that point!

After the dreadful legato, big delay in releasing the library, and long wait for the player they think it is a good idea to imply how generous they are being by giving us the actual proper player for the library free of charge?

Their marketing team needs firing.


----------



## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> Free of charge! How nice of them and how nice of them to reinforce that point!
> 
> Their marketing team needs firing.



Yeah... they should give us a Free Voucher for waiting instead of mentioning it's Free of charge.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Reading words "Free of charge" I thought of a scene from cult classic called "Airplane"...



And I feel a bit like that lady there. Let's call her: "L_oyal user of *Synchron Strings I" ;D*_


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Dear Villain said:


> Yes, exactly as you said. On it's own, I could not get the Synchron legato to sound smooth and connected (exactly as so many have discussed), in spite of experimenting with the legato "blur", humanizing features, extending note lengths to overlap slightly, etc. etc. The orchestral strings provided that extra cohesion that essentially "filled in the gaps". As many have speculated, I think the Synchron attacks are too harsh/present and don't allow subsequent notes to sound connected (almost as if a marcato is on the beginning of each note).



Not even with the Soft Legato? I view this patch as the "actual" legato that more or less sounds like legato patches of older VSL string libraries sounds. I think this patch is actually pretty OK. Nothing spectacular or "legato re-invented", but workable.


----------



## muziksculp

Noting that VSL is using a new audio format for their Synchron line of products, this would mean that Sync-Str1 users who are currently running it in VI-Pro 2, will need to re-download the whole library for the Synchron Player, so If you have both versions, that is around 1TB of samples just for this library ! Or you can consider deleting the VI-Pro 2 version of the library. 

I'm guessing this new Audio format they decided to use, is more efficient on resources, and possibly is better for streaming from disc, given they mentioned that the new player will be much more efficient in the number of voices is can stream compared to VI-Pro2.


----------



## Sovereign

Eptesicus said:


> Free of charge! How nice of them and how nice of them to reinforce that point!


No they are doing us a favor, really.


----------



## Dear Villain

Casiquire said:


> Wonderfully well-done! This is so fantastic. Did you use MIR to get all of the sounds into Synchron or are you using a different reverb or different hall sound? Thanks for sharing this.



Thanks, Casiquire, so glad you enjoyed it! The entire orchestra was VSL Cube (orchestra strings) standard library. Everything was placed in Mir, Grosser Saal, except for the doubled Synchron strings. So, it's really a blend of two sonic environments. And yes, I would have definitely first tried to place the instruments in the Synchron room pack, but I don't have it.

Dave


----------



## Eptesicus

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Not even with the Soft Legato? I view this patch as the "actual" legato that more or less sounds like legato patches of older VSL string libraries sounds. I think this patch is actually pretty OK. Nothing spectacular or "legato re-invented", but workable.



The soft legato is the best but it still doesn't feel right. I don't know how they even begin to think the normal legato sounds right. The attacks from the longs don't seem to be edited or faded out (well, into) AT all so you get left with a ridiculous attack after each transition. That is why it sounds so naff and well, why it doesn't sound like a legato transition at all.

i think the soft patch only sounds better because the attacks are not as severe in the soft longs...

the legato feels like it is literally just the longs, but with a recorded transition slapped in between with little to no editing of the outgoing and incoming long.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> If you have both versions, that is around 1TB of samples just for this library ! Or you can consider deleting the VI-Pro 2 version of the library.



Well for those in the deep end of a project they will need to put up with both formats. 

If the player offers a lighter footprint then it will be less space taken, the burden maybe worth putting up with.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Eptesicus said:


> the legato feels like it is literally just the longs, but with a recorded transition slapped in between with little to no editing of the outgoing and incoming long.



Which is what it is in many libraries actually, not just here.


----------



## Sovereign

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Which is what it is in many libraries actually, not just here.


Sure, in principle only, but the fact remains that other libraries sound way better in this regard.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Sovereign said:


> Sure, in principle only, but the fact remains that other libraries sound way better in this regard.



It won't be winning any "best legato" awards for sure. But I feel that it's being made way worse than it is and the general narrative has developed a life of its own.

Which in part is VSLs fault. That's what happens when nobody really _uses_ the library due to the lack of an appropriate player, but everyone talks about how bad the legato is for 7 months. It kinda turns into a truism and vernacular.


----------



## Symfoniq

Sovereign said:


> Sure, in principle only, but the fact remains that other libraries sound way better in this regard.



Indeed. The legato in Synchron Strings is actually a big step backward for VSL, IMO. I think Orchestral Strings sounds better. But if anyone disagrees and wants to purchase Synchron Strings, I'll happily sell them my license at a 50% discount.


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Which in part is VSLs fault. That's what happens when nobody really _uses_ the library due to the lack of an appropriate player, but everyone talks about how bad the legato is for 7 months. It kinda turns into a truism and vernacular.



That's a good, and valid point.

There also seems very little optimism around here, that the new Synchron Strings 1 Player will improve the legato functionality, which is what I'm really hoping for, if that doesn't materialize then that's a dead case, but until then, why be so pessimistic about that possibility ?

I think this library was not designed to run on VI-Pro 2 from the get go, but it was just one way VSL was able to keep the complaints, and waiting time down for some users who didn't mind using VI-Pro 2, at the price of poor functionality, especially the Legato, and maybe other limitations due to the player's design.

I still have some hope, and optimism that Synchron Strings 1 is an amazing library, when used with the properly designed player, (Synchron Strings 1 Player), Not (VI-Pro 2) .


----------



## richhickey

Dear Villain said:


> On it's own, I could not get the Synchron legato to sound smooth and connected (exactly as so many have discussed), in spite of experimenting with the legato "blur", humanizing features, extending note lengths to overlap slightly, etc. etc. The orchestral strings provided that extra cohesion that essentially "filled in the gaps". As many have speculated, I think the Synchron attacks are too harsh/present and don't allow subsequent notes to sound connected (almost as if a marcato is on the beginning of each note).



If you haven't already, you might want to double-check slot xfade. I've gotten bitten more than once by Synchron's legato patches because of the 'marcato' layer mapped to slot xfade. Now it's the first thing I check when I pull up a patch. Even when mixed all the way down, the legatos aren't that smooth, but what you are describing sounds like it might be this.


----------



## Critz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Not even with the Soft Legato? I view this patch as the "actual" legato that more or less sounds like legato patches of older VSL string libraries sounds. I think this patch is actually pretty OK. Nothing spectacular or "legato re-invented", but workable.



Oh! So what? I was right?
You made fun of me when I said the soft legato was the only one pretty useful, and for the rest it was a waste of Gbs, with a lot of slightly different kind of unusable legatos.


----------



## novaburst

Symfoniq said:


> But if anyone disagrees and wants to purchase Synchron Strings, I'll happily sell them my license at a 50% discount.



Have you the standard or full version,


----------



## Symfoniq

novaburst said:


> Have you the standard or full version,



I have a Standard license.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> Oh! So what? I was right?
> You made fun of me when I said the soft legato was the only one pretty useful, and for the rest it was a waste of Gbs, with a lot of slightly different kind of unusable legatos.



Can't remember, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it was, because my opinion on the legatos never changed. I'm sure I made fun of some stupid BS you said like you're known to do.


----------



## ludini

At least it appears they recorded some new stuff. Paul from VSL-Forum:

Hi, 

Sorry if this is confusing. 

1) The Synchron Player is ready., 

2) The *new sample content *of Synchron Strings I that is needed to work with Synchron Player is currently being prepared. 

3) As soon as the download is available => the Synchron Player will also be available (and usable) for all Synchron Strings users.

Best, 
Paul


----------



## muziksculp

ludini said:


> At least it appears they recorded some new stuff. Paul from VSL-Forum:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry if this is confusing.
> 
> 1) The Synchron Player is ready.,
> 
> 2) The *new sample content *of Synchron Strings I that is needed to work with Synchron Player is currently being prepared.
> 
> 3) As soon as the download is available => the Synchron Player will also be available (and usable) for all Synchron Strings users.
> 
> Best,
> Paul



I don't think they have added any new sample content, they are just using a new audio-format that the new Synchron Strings I Player will utilize. Which is a new sample format, but the same content. 

But, I'm glad that there is progress, and that VSL is reporting the progress to its customers.


----------



## ludini

muziksculp said:


> I don't think they have added any new sample content, they are just using a new audio-format that the new Synchron Strings I Player will utilize. Which is a new sample format, but the same content.
> 
> But, I'm glad that there is progress, and that VSL is reporting the progress to its customers.


But he explicitly says "new sample content". Maybe that's the reason for the delay?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

ludini said:


> But he explicitly says "new sample content". Maybe that's the reason for the delay?



I noticed that wording too, but I believe that what he means with "brand new" is that the sample content has to be re-downloaded in a new format.


----------



## muziksculp

ludini said:


> But he explicitly says "new sample content". Maybe that's the reason for the delay?



Well, if he means new sample content that was recorded lately, and added to the sample content of the library, then that's a BIG statement, which is possible, but it could also mean, just new Sample Format Content, which is what I think he is referring to. So, the statement is kind of unclear, or ambiguous in the context of the current scenario with the new player.


----------



## ludini

muziksculp said:


> Well, if he means new sample content that was recorded lately, and added to the sample content of the library, then that's a BIG statement, which is possible, but it could also mean, just new Sample Format Content, which is what I think he is referring to. So, the statement is kind of unclear, or ambiguous in the context of the current scenario with the new player.


I agree, it's an ambiguous statement. It'd be be cool if they had recorded a new legato, though.


----------



## muziksculp

I think the emphasis is on the red underlined text of what VSL wrote. Which is a new sample format needed for the Synchron Player, not new sample content. 

Quote : "The *new sample content *of Synchron Strings I* that is needed to work with Synchron Player* is currently being prepared.


----------



## Sovereign

Not even this week but next week : "I am testing Synchron Strings I as we speak, and if no show-stopper shows up, we will have great news for you next week."


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> Not even this week but next week : "I am testing Synchron Strings I as we speak, and if no show-stopper shows up, we will have great news for you next week."



We are almost there, another week of waiting isn't that bad.

I would rather have VSL double, and triple check that there are no issues with the new player, before they finally make it available for download, instead of reading tons of posts complaining about this, and that.


----------



## romantic

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I noticed that wording too, but I believe that what he means with "brand new" is that the sample content has to be re-downloaded in a new format.


So the question is will it be "brand new" or eventually "branded new"


----------



## novaburst

Symfoniq said:


> I have a Standard license.



OK, did you get them on the early bird offering.


----------



## Eptesicus

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It won't be winning any "best legato" awards for sure. But I feel that it's being made way worse than it is and the general narrative has developed a life of its own.
> 
> Which in part is VSLs fault. That's what happens when nobody really _uses_ the library due to the lack of an appropriate player, but everyone talks about how bad the legato is for 7 months. It kinda turns into a truism and vernacular.



I disagree. Good legato is the most important factor in making a mock up sound realistic, especially in strings.

You have to remember that the main reason people are annoyed is because VSL themselves touted the legato to be some new revolutionary way of doing things. "Legato re-invented" they said.

Instead, the legato is worse than even their first string library.

Realistically, only the soft legato patches are usable. But even then they aren't as good as in other libraries.

They need to re-record or re-edit how the legato works because otherwise the Synchron Series is dead from the start in terms of being used as a full orchestral library.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Eptesicus said:


> I disagree. Good legato is the most important factor in making a mock up sound realistic, especially in strings.
> 
> You have to remember that the main reason people are annoyed is because VSL themselves touted the legato to be some new revolutionary way of doing things. "Legato re-invented" they said.
> 
> Instead, the legato is worse than even their first string library.
> 
> Realistically, only the soft legato patches are usable. But even then they aren't as good as in other libraries.
> 
> They need to re-record or re-edit how the legato works because otherwise the Synchron Series is dead from the start in terms of being used as a full orchestral library.



I have to disagree with the notion that legato is the most imporant thing about a string library. In fact, I think it's generally massively overrated and overused.
But I would wish for SyS to receive an improved legato patch, yes.


----------



## novaburst

Eptesicus said:


> disagree. Good legato is the most important factor in making a mock up sound realistic, especially in strings.



Without trying to start a war I would say that I have heard some very nice legatos being used in SyS in some muck ups. 

One of my considerations was do people actually know how the VSL SyS works or more princely do they know how to work the legato section, from reading some of the post about what they do inside the instrument player the conclusion is some are not aware of what they can do to make the legato work. 

I have also heard this in other string library's users are just hoping for the best by just pressing the legato note and all in all it could sound a little better with a little knowledge about how the legato works

Yes VSL did say a lot about how good the legato would be in SyS but they did not say its going to be the easiest thing to use.


----------



## Eptesicus

novaburst said:


> Without trying to start a war I would say that I have heard some very nice legatos being used in SyS in some muck ups.



This is the problem for me. I have not heard a single convincing mock up with Synchron that has a lot of legato passages/a prominent expressive melody line.

I also so far haven't been able to do one myself that i am completely happy with.

If someone can post a track that sounds fantastic and exhibits a convincing melody line with Synchron then fair enough. So far i have not heard a single one.

More than happy for one to be posted and for me to be proven wrong though! I want to like it and i love the general tone and sound of the longs and shorts, but i can't keep kidding myself that the legato is usable. Each time i play with it i just come to the conclusion that it simply isn't workable.

I was one of the ones in this thread that was giving it the benefit of the doubt remember. As time has gone on though, i'm not sure how i can keep up the optimism.


----------



## mobileavatar

Eptesicus said:


> This is the problem for me. I have not heard a single convincing mock up with Synchron that has a lot of legato passages/a prominent expressive melody line.
> 
> I also so far haven't been able to do one myself that i am completely happy with.



Synchron Strings owners not only have been extremely patient, but also extraordinarily forgiving.
Hoping VSL to redo the legato is a very modest request. To me, the library seems to have problem larger than just the legatos, esp. the upper strings. All the melodies I came across somehow have a synthy feel to them. Maybe partly it's the legato, partly it's the attack, or maybe the samples have been overprocessed.

I feel torn by the situation because like so many VSL owners, I bought the "Re-invented' story. VSL did a great job with Synchron CFX as well as Synchron FX Strings, but the Synchron Strings is altogether a different animal. I doubt, even with the new player, it will on the same par, in terms of quality and character.

People have already questioning if the "organic" feel of Synchron FX Strings would blend well with Synchron Strings. I have the same doubt myself. If it doesn't, then there is no Synchron series. Even the libraries are recorded in the same venue, they will be perceived only as isolated libraries.


----------



## Prockamanisc

mobileavatar said:


> Synchron FX Strings would blend well with Synchron Strings. I have the same doubt myself. If it doesn't, then there is no Synchron series. Even the libraries are recorded in the same venue, they will be perceived only as isolated libraries.


I think this is an essential point. VSL has had my faith 100% for many years, now it's up to them to maintain that while they expand to this outer layer. They haven't lost it, yet, not even 1%. I can live with broken promises as long as it leads to incredible libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

It would be very helpful if VSL posts some new video tutorials on how to achieve great sounding Legato performances with Synchron Strings 1, using their new Synchron Strings 1 Player. This would prove to us that there is no Legato issues, and show us how to achieve good Legato results using their new Synchron Strings 1 Player.

I will post this request from VSL on their official forum. Hopefully they will listen to this request, and deliver some video tutorials on this topic.


----------



## mobileavatar

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully they will listen to this request, and deliver some video tutorials on this topic.



There is always hope, but the fact they do not even have new audio demos out by now, makes me believe the new player will hardly be a saving grace.


----------



## muziksculp

mobileavatar said:


> There is always hope, but the fact they do not even have new audio demos out by now, makes me believe the new player will hardly be a saving grace.



I will also request if they could post some new Synchron Strings 1 audio demos, that were done using the new Synchron Strings 1 Player.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Not sure what you guys are expecting from the Synchron Player. It's there to organize a multi-mic library, as well as the SyS patch structure/logic in a feasible, easy to use way - because VI Pro can't. It won't change anything about the sound or the legato.


----------



## mobileavatar

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It won't change anything about the sound or the legato.



I agree. I do not have any hope.
I only feel annoyed by the fact that VSL is painting the picture the player will do magic...
that will just aggravate the situation further for its release.


----------



## muziksculp

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...-VSL-for-Synchron-Stirngs-1-Player#post272183


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

mobileavatar said:


> I agree. I do not have any hope.
> I only feel annoyed by the fact that VSL is painting the picture the player will do magic...
> that will just aggravate the situation further for its release.



But do they really? I don't recall them promising any wonders tbh. In fact, they never even acknowledged that there's this catastrophic problem with the library that the player is miraculously supposed to fix. That's all wishful thinking that kind of gained a momentum of its own.


----------



## muziksculp

Just got a reply from Paul on my VSL forum post for tutorials request. 

-------------------------------------
Quote : 
_Hi muziksculp, 

Getting ready for video tutorials right now 

Will show you everything I know. New demos will be available as soon as we can supply the final content to the composers. Might take a few extra days. 

Best, 
Paul 
-----------------------------------_


----------



## Prockamanisc

Paul is incredible. I have no idea where he gets the energy or the time.


----------



## muziksculp

I really think some optimism, and positive energy on this thread are badly needed, and are a good thing 

Hopefully we can all celebrate, and enjoy using Synchron Strings 1 next week.


----------



## Prockamanisc

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully we can all celebrate next week.


Who's gonna have time to celebrate? I'll be too busy playing with Synchron Strings!


----------



## muziksculp

Prockamanisc said:


> Who's gonna have time to celebrate? I'll be too busy playing with Synchron Strings!



Hehe.. I need to buy a new dedicated SSD for my Slave-PC that will host Synchron Strings 1.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Prockamanisc said:


> Paul is incredible. I have no idea where he gets the energy or the time.



Yeah ... I really hope they're paying this dude his worth. He's awesome.


----------



## Dear Villain

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Yeah ... I really hope they're paying this dude his worth. He's awesome.



They covered his annual salary from the earlybird Synchron purchasers


----------



## Eptesicus

Dear Villain said:


> They covered his annual salary from the earlybird Synchron purchasers


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I do hope for legato improvements, too. But I'm not sure if all the negative posts made some change in their thinking. Because they haven't talked about it. It's just a new format. I could imagine that the uproar would be immense if not, me included. Then I have to admit that I regret having bought this library. I put so much hope into it, because the competition sounds light years ahead.


----------



## novaburst

Eptesicus said:


> This is the problem for me. I have not heard a single convincing mock up with Synchron that has a lot of legato passages/a prominent expressive melody line.
> 
> I also so far haven't been able to do one myself that i am completely happy with.



I think writing for a legato melody string section is a difficulty in its self just not sure you can do that, I mean have you heard any other strong legato melodies from other string library's you can give an example for instance.

because when you think about it, its pretty tough to do something like that with any string library, and make it sound good.


----------



## Sovereign

novaburst said:


> I mean have you heard any other strong legato melodies from other string library's you can give an example for instance.


 Seriously?!


----------



## Vadium

novaburst said:


> from other string library's you can give an example for instance.


I will be very surprised if you can make same on the synchron strings. And notice, this fast and not tweaked example (sorry for dynamic changes in a last seconds) I made by VSL previous library, e. g. VSL know how, but don't want (or don't hear?)

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/dimension-strings-rebow-example-mp3.13580/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> Seriously?!



Yes I think one of the most difficult things is to play the legato in a piece and have it not sound as if you used the notes in a keyboard,


----------



## SomeGuy

After watching the Synchron player used in Synchron strings FX 1, I'm a bit concerned. First off, I personally dislike key switches. Thankfully in the current VI player I can change patches, cells, and matrix by midi CC instead, which makes programming in your DAW really easy as you dont have to chase midi notes for key switches, dont have extra notes cluttering your scores, dont have to have different key switches for high and low instruments, etc. Unfortunately it looks like this is no longer an option in the Synchron player and you are forced to use key switches. NOOO! 

Also the new "tree" system seems very limiting. For example, if you are playing a long string melody and needed a few notes to have a little extra bite, it was easy to add a spiccato articulation a new combination patch in a new matrix, mix it how you wanted with the volume sliders so the staccato level is just right vs the sustain, and switch easily as necessary. In the new "tree" system, it looks like you can only access articulations within that subfolder, which means if longs are on one branch and shorts on another, you cannot play them both at the same time. In fact, I dont see anyway to actually combine articulations and mix their individual levels! 

It was features like these that made the Vienna Instruments player the best in the world. Of course we will have to wait and see, but so far it looks like the new player is a step backwards in flexibility. I was hoping the synchron player would have still had the Vienna Instruments flexibility, but designed for multi-mics. Hopefully it doesn't loose too much of that VI flexibility.


----------



## Prockamanisc

SomeGuy said:


> After watching the Synchron player used in Synchron strings FX 1, I'm a bit concerned. First off, I personally dislike key switches. Thankfully in the current VI player I can change patches, cells, and matrix by midi CC instead, which makes programming in your DAW really easy as you dont have to chase midi notes for key switches, dont have extra notes cluttering your scores, dont have to have different key switches for high and low instruments, etc. Unfortunately it looks like this is no longer an option in the Synchron player and you are forced to use key switches. NOOO!


I really, really, really hope not. To have waited this long and to be so thoroughly disappointed would be awful.


----------



## mobileavatar

SomeGuy said:


> Thankfully in the current VI player I can change patches, cells, and matrix by midi CC instead



In the Synchron Player manual, it describes how you can use of any of the sources for the control:
- Controller (MIDI CC)
- Pitch Bend
- Speed
- Velocity
- Aftertouch Aftertouch Release

Guess the tree is conceived as a more "relational" version of the original VI matrix.

So no need to worry in terms of control. What is really missing is the implementation of multiple trees, like the multiple layers of matrixes before.

For the rest, c'est la vie... (fingers crossed).


----------



## Piotrek K.

From what I've seen till now Synchron Player seems nice. But it also seems to be just a player, nothing more. At least there will be possibility to download only mics that I need / want (cool feature, must admit). In the worst case scenario I could leave premixed patches and close mics on SSD and use synchrons when needed extra dynamic layers or that raw, harsh sound (never?). Although I don't think that this is something VSL had in mind for their flagship product 

I've been also thinking about legato blur option. VSL gave us feature that literaly hides legato transition. So they are basically telling us to hide something they created. It's not something proud parents would do...

Just fyi, I'm not huge fan of SS legato, but imo it is far from unusable. But it's also far from current competition level. And not so current (Hollywood Strings). I still believe though, that in this crazy huge sample pool there are things that were not available in VI and were limited by scripting etc. Hope dies last.

Will see in few more days which mics will stay on my drive.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Piotrek K. said:


> At least there will be possibility to download only mics that I need / want (cool feature, must admit).
> 
> ...
> 
> Will see in few more days which mics will stay on my drive.



Really? How does that work?


----------



## Piotrek K.

> You can choose microphone positions both for downloading and installation, and you can move them as you like.



Original thread: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...gs-I-player-support--lite--patches#post272171

Also you can see that feature in Synchron Player Manual on page 7 - 8 (in context of FX strings).


----------



## novaburst

SomeGuy said:


> After watching the Synchron player used in Synchron strings FX 1, I'm a bit concerned. First off, I personally dislike key switches. Thankfully in the current VI player I can change patches, cells, and matrix by midi CC instead, which makes programming in your DAW really easy



I think the best way to go would be to keep the existing SyS library in use with the instrument player, then have the new SyS player and download else where on your system yes it will need a considerable amount of space but at least you will have options


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

I also love the flexibility of VI and hope that Synchron Player won't be a step backwards. Maybe there is many stuff going on under the hood, because of the new algorithms they mention on the product page. Maybe they are over-rated, we will see. 

On the one hand, I find all these colours and keyswitches a bit too much. Shouldn't the player be easier? But again, we will see. You can assign other conditions (speed, velocity ...) to these folders ("dimensions").

On the other hand, I wished for a complete re-thought articulation system, something like CSS or others, where you can see the articulation by the corresponding note, just use one keyswitch (or another controller) and all the other stuff is going on in the background. Or, for example, something like Spitfire's performance legato with speed and velocity control at the same time. I know this wouldn't be VSL's philosophy and I like VI, but it would have been one possibility.


----------



## Casiquire

I'm still trying to figure out what, aside from microphone positions, the Synchron player does better than VI.


----------



## SomeGuy

novaburst said:


> I think the best way to go would be to keep the existing SyS library in use with the instrument player, then have the new SyS player and download else where on your system yes it will need a considerable amount of space but at least you will have options



Unfortunately its not that simple, as multi mic support in VI pro, though possible, is a major PITA. For example, open one of the template setups that VSL give you in VE pro, you will see that all 4 mic positions are spread across 4 different VI players. So, to use my example again of combining a short articulation with a long one for extra attack, in order to make this simple process happen you now need to go into each of the 4 individual VI players, add the combined articulations into a single cell, balance them 4 times, etc. Where if it had multi mic support like Synchron's mixing page, then it could be done in one go. Not to mention the obvious missing features the built in sequencer (which is great for tempo synced runs and ostinato) etc. So it feels like I'm stuck either loosing flexability for ease of use, or spending hours creating my own template from synchron strings that might, in the end, sound inferior if the synchron player really does help get the most out of this library. 

I really REALLY hope they eventually give VI pro the mixing page from synchron player. IMO this is all thats needed, though given that synchron player is a new format, I doubt this will happen.


----------



## SomeGuy

mobileavatar said:


> In the Synchron Player manual, it describes how you can use of any of the sources for the control:
> - Controller (MIDI CC)
> - Pitch Bend
> - Speed
> - Velocity
> - Aftertouch Aftertouch Release
> 
> Guess the tree is conceived as a more "relational" version of the original VI matrix.
> 
> So no need to worry in terms of control. What is really missing is the implementation of multiple trees, like the multiple layers of matrixes before.
> 
> For the rest, c'est la vie... (fingers crossed).



I cant see the manual, but in the video for FX strings these could only be set for the density and bow styles (via the knob under that section of the tree) and not for initial patch selection.


----------



## Dear Villain

SomeGuy said:


> After watching the Synchron player used in Synchron strings FX 1, I'm a bit concerned. First off, I personally dislike key switches. Thankfully in the current VI player I can change patches, cells, and matrix by midi CC instead, which makes programming in your DAW really easy as you dont have to chase midi notes for key switches, dont have extra notes cluttering your scores, dont have to have different key switches for high and low instruments, etc. Unfortunately it looks like this is no longer an option in the Synchron player and you are forced to use key switches. NOOO!



How does using midi cc work in place of keyswitches for articulations? Could you explain this as it sounds intriguing.


----------



## novaburst

SomeGuy said:


> or spending hours creating my own template from synchron strings that might, in the end, sound inferior if the synchron player really does help get the most out of this library



Remember you can save your settings and edits, fine tuning all can be save and flicked back up in an instance when needed, spending a lot of time editing is not desirable but once its saved it can be summoned any time,

But I know what you mean


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Dear Villain said:


> How does using midi cc work in place of keyswitches for articulations? Could you explain this as it sounds intriguing.



You just assign a CC as the switching method instead of keyswitches. I do this for almost all my VSL samples. It also works great with Cubase expression maps. For example, if you have three cells in on the X axis, you pick "controller" and the number of the CC you plan to use. Now the CC switches between the cells. For example, values 1-42 jump to the first cell, 43 - 84 to the second, 85 - 127 to the third.

Of course, this works vertically as well, so you can actually have several rows and columns of articulations and use two simultaneous CC controllers (one for the X axis, one for Y) to switch through the whole grid.

I also like to combine this with velocity. For example for pre-recorded dynamics that are available in different lengths (1 sec., 2 sec., 3 sec. etc.). I let a CC switch the Y axis (normal and strong dynamics), and the horizontal cells are filled with the different durations of the crescendi/diminuendi. The X axis is set to key velocity, so the length of the articulation is determined by how hard I play (or what velocity I set the note to in the MIDI editor).


----------



## mobileavatar

SomeGuy said:


> I cant see the manual



pp. 12-13 of the manual described how to switch the control for the dimension.
But like I mentioned before, the new player does not seem to support multiple trees ala the multiple matrixes that VI supports.


----------



## SomeGuy

mobileavatar said:


> pp. 12-13 of the manual described how to switch the control for the dimension.
> But like I mentioned before, the new player does not seem to support multiple trees ala the multiple matrixes that VI supports.



Thank you for posting this! Looks like we should be able to use midi CC via the "Dim" control for all parts of the tree, and not just the variation and bow sections. Great news!!


----------



## mikeh-375

Dear Villain said:


> How does using midi cc work in place of keyswitches for articulations? Could you explain this as it sounds intriguing.



Dave,
Check out the Vsl app....its a breeze for keyswitch and automating every single parameter of vsl at the touch of a screen. Oh wait, you’re not really asking about that....ignore me...


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

In the meantime, I played with the close microphone of the 1st violins, because I don't like the room mix very much. Synchron Strings have such a wonderful tone out of the box, and the vibrato really shines on the close microphone.

Here is a sound example of "Harry's Wonderous World". I'm pretty new with samples and composing, so forgive my live play fumbling. I used the polyphonic legato (in VI Pro) and played with both hands. CC1 is controlled with foot pedal, no editing afterwards. No eq. Patch is the regular and fast legato (controlled by speed) with attack and release slightly increased.

The close microphone is positioned in MIR Pro (Synchron Stage) with some Miracle (Synchron Stage) added.

On my headphones it sounds good, don't know if it sounds always the same. 

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/harry_potter_ww_synchron-strings_close2-mp3.13629/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Dear Villain

mikeh-375 said:


> Dave,
> Check out the Vsl app....its a breeze for keyswitch and automating every single parameter of vsl at the touch of a screen. Oh wait, you’re not really asking about that....ignore me...



I would never ignore you, Mike  Thanks for the tip. I have used the app, but honestly, I haven't found it improves my workflow, probably because I've developed a lot of bad habits which I'm too stubborn to break!

Dave


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

We might finally, and hopefully see the Synchron Strings I Player released this month (fingers crossed), and It is not too far fetched if they they announce another New Synchron Library on June 1st. Maybe Synchron Brass I ?

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Casiquire

That would be really quick to announce a new library! I hope they announce some new samples for the official Synchron Strings instead. It would make a lot of people happy and strengthen the flagship product


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> I hope they announce some new samples for the official Synchron Strings instead. It would make a lot of people happy and strengthen the flagship product



What additional samples are you expecting for Synchron Strings I ? 

More articulations ? 

I think that would be something they would introduce in Synchron Strings II or Maybe Synchron Strings Expansions, but if you mean new Legato samples for Syn-Strings I, then I doubt that will happen for this release. 

VSL will surely announce something next Month (June), it could just be another discount offer, so nothing new. or a new Synchron Library, we have a couple days left this month, so we will know very soon.


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> That would be really quick to announce a new library!



Did you forget that they released two Synchron Libraries already, while we are waiting for a Synchron Strings I Player  ? 

VSL are always sampling, and producing new material for future releases, so I wouldn't be very surprised if they announce Synchron Brass, or Woodwinds.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muziksculp said:


> What additional samples are you expecting for Synchron Strings I ?
> 
> More articulations ?



Doubt that will happen, but yes, that's what it needs.

I like the short articulation, but what's missing is a "spiccato" one that's snappier than the staccato and staccatissimo that's already in the library. I think it's a huge oversight.

I really don't like the sfz and fp articulations in SyS. I believe they're fake articulations - just the short note with some kind of faded sustain tacked underneath. I can't get them to work in a musical way. Older VSL libraries had proper sfz and fp, and they sounded great and were really useful. I think VSL should go back and record those.

I also liked the detache in the older VSL libraries and can't really reproduce that with the standard longs in SyS.

The library needs a proper portamento. Col Legno would be nice.

Overall I really, really think they should go back, tighten up this package and salvage the Synchron brand before attacking anything else. They can still make SyS the new flagship product it was supposed to be. Don't go the SF route, churn something out and never go back and fix the broken stuff, but keep releasing new products all the time.


----------



## Salorom

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Doubt that will happen, but yes, that's what it needs.
> 
> I like the short articulation, but what's missing is a "spiccato" one that's snappier than the staccato and staccatissimo that's already in the library. I think it's a huge oversight.
> 
> I really don't like the sfz and fp articulations in SyS. I believe they're fake articulations - just the short note with some kind of faded sustain tacked underneath. I can't get them to work in a musical way. Older VSL libraries had proper sfz and fp, and they sounded great and were really useful. I think VSL should go back and record those.
> 
> I also liked the detache in the older VSL libraries and can't really reproduce that with the standard longs in SyS.
> 
> The library needs a proper portamento. Col Legno would be nice.
> 
> Overall I really, really think they should go back, tighten up this package and salvage the Synchron brand before attacking anything else. They can still make SyS the new flagship product it was supposed to be. Don't go the SF route, churn something out and never go back and fix the broken stuff, but keep releasing new products all the time.



I agree


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Doubt that will happen, but yes, that's what it needs.
> 
> I like the short articulation, but what's missing is a "spiccato" one that's snappier than the staccato and staccatissimo that's already in the library. I think it's a huge oversight.
> 
> I really don't like the sfz and fp articulations in SyS. I believe they're fake articulations - just the short note with some kind of faded sustain tacked underneath. I can't get them to work in a musical way. Older VSL libraries had proper sfz and fp, and they sounded great and were really useful. I think VSL should go back and record those.
> 
> I also liked the detache in the older VSL libraries and can't really reproduce that with the standard longs in SyS.
> 
> The library needs a proper portamento. Col Legno would be nice.
> 
> Overall I really, really think they should go back, tighten up this package and salvage the Synchron brand before attacking anything else. They can still make SyS the new flagship product it was supposed to be. Don't go the SF route, churn something out and never go back and fix the broken stuff, but keep releasing new products all the time.



Thanks for the feedback.

Well, this is Synchron Strings 1, I would expect Synchron Strings 2 to offer more articulations, including the missing ones you mentioned. I don't think VSL will add more articulations to Synchron Strings 1.


----------



## Casiquire

Yeah I could see them announcing the Synchron Player release. But as far as new recordings, I was referring to legato improvements and some of those dynamic articulations that are getting criticism.

It feels a bit quick for me right off the heels of their piano and string effects releases. I'd be surprised if they choose to release yet another new library and we haven't had time to really experience all the other new ones yet. At this point they're releasing rapid-fire already.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> Well, this is Synchron Strings 1, I would expect Synchron Strings 2 to offer more articulations



And that's the problem - it would come at the cost of another library. Which is what devs increasingly like to do nowadays, it seems.

We're not talking about "extended articulations" or "special bowings" etc. here. This is bread and butter stuff. I mean, come on. Spiccato.


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> And that's the problem - it would come at the cost of another library. Which is what devs increasingly like to do nowadays, it seems.



Yes, they are a business, not a charity.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muziksculp said:


> Yes, they are a business, not a charity.



You're being a bit silly now, and I'm not sure it's worth debating this nonsensical point. I mean, it's not as if there were any competitor products or previous libraries from VSLs own catalogue to base our expecations on, right? But hey. I guess we all get to be as gullible - or confrontational - as we choose, right.


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> You're being a bit silly now, and I'm not sure it's worth debating this nonsensical point. I mean, it's not as if there were any competitor products or previous libraries from VSLs own catalogue to base our expecations on, right? But hey. I guess we all get to be as gullible - or confrontational - as we choose, right.



I'm just being realistic, and knowing how VSL operates, I don't see them adding new samples to a sample library they announced as complete (as far as sample content is concerned). Maybe that sounds silly to you, but it is reality to me.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muziksculp said:


> I'm just being realistic, and knowing how VSL operates, I don't see them adding new samples to a sample library they announced as complete (as far as sample content is concerned). Maybe that's sounds silly to you, but it is reality to me.



And if you remember - the first line of my post in question was _"*Doubt that will happen*, but yes, that's what it needs." _And your charity remark is what I called silly. Because it truly is one of those silly, lowbrow catch phrases people say for no good reason.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Here is a new reply from Paul/VSL on their official forum :

-----------------------------------------------
Quote :
_
Hi guys, 

Your enthusiasm and anticipation is very much appreciated!

We will let you know when we are ready, checking all systems as we speak.

It will be in the next days. 

Best, 
Paul
-----------------------------------_


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> And if you remember - the first line of my post in question was _"*Doubt that will happen*, but yes, that's what it needs." _And your charity remark is what I called silly. Because it truly is one of those silly, lowbrow catch phrases people say for no good reason.



Sorry about the charity remark, I didn't mean for it to come across in a lowbrow manner, I think you know what I was trying to say, I agree I could have phrased it in a more tasteful way, but my brain was rushing to get the post out.


----------



## Piotrek K.

I actually feel that they want to release whole Synchron Orchestra this year (at least volume ones). FX strings is odd release if you think about that plan, but maybe they needed it to make Synchron Player bulletproof. Now, they can just record, edit, sale, repeat. I think that Synchron Stage maintenance isn't cheap.

And actually I'm still interested in the rest of the sections. And I see here an opportunity for VSL to create really great pack - full orchestra in one cohesive space, premixed, balanced. With flaws, but ready to create music out of the box. And for that I would pay. Also I'm not gonna be surprised if some time down the road they will release Synchron special editions - maybe lower velocity count, one mic (please, not mix though! ) etc.

But this is far future. And today I just want Synchron Player. And true sforzando, more variations in shorts and molto vibrato patches


----------



## Salorom

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> You're being a bit silly now, and I'm not sure it's worth debating this nonsensical point. I mean, it's not as if there were any competitor products or previous libraries from VSLs own catalogue to base our expecations on, right? But hey. I guess we all get to be as gullible - or confrontational - as we choose, right.



I agree twice.

If SyS1 stays the same in its Synchron Player version it’s bound to be detrimental to VSL and their credibility as one of the very best players in the business. They can’t dismiss what has already raised so many eyebrows.

The legato issues is one thing. Their decision to not add proper spiccato or portamento articulations in the first instalment of a brand new strings library? Bold commercial move, in my opinion. I think an FX add-on should be coming after the basics are covered.


----------



## romantic

I'd say there monthly mail tomorrow is going to
-) State that player will be out next week (today is public holiday, and I don't think they will release on friday)
-) No new instrument announcemnt
-) A discount for something I don't need
-) A freeby or super discount for every loyal customer who purchased synchron strings before 31st of May (so I'd recommend all of you to hurry up and buy these strings today!)


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

romantic said:


> -) A freeby



Re-recorded legatos. Only for customers who purchased before May 31st.


----------



## mobileavatar

There is a new "Synchron Player" tutorial video on Synchron FX Strings page:
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Synchron_FX_Strings_I#!Videos


----------



## Tfis

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Only for customers who purchased before May 31st.



Which year?


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Here is the latest post from Paul/VSL (Today) on the official VSL Forum. 
----------------------------------------------------------------
*Quote :*

_Hello everybody!

We are really really really close and tried very hard to get this update out this week. 
There is one last bug that has crept in last-minute, which blocks the release. 

Thanks for your patience. I am convinced that you will be pleased with the results, and we will keep on pushing!

Best, 
Paul
----------------------------------------------------------_


----------



## muziksculp

Damn Bugs, they are everywhere 

Hopefully it's one bug, not many that have crept in.


----------



## Eptesicus

I still can't quite get over the fact that they have devoted developers and man hours to TWO whole new Synchron player based libraries that they are selling now, with a working player, before even finishing the player for a library they released 6 months ago.


----------



## Prockamanisc

Eptesicus said:


> I still can't quite get over the fact that they have devoted developers and man hours to TWO whole new Synchron player based libraries that they are selling now, with a working player, before even finishing the player for a library they released 6 months ago.


Because they had some technical issues which were solved by doing the other libraries.


----------



## richhickey

Eptesicus said:


> I still can't quite get over the fact that they have devoted developers and man hours to TWO whole new Synchron player based libraries that they are selling now, with a working player, before even finishing the player for a library they released 6 months ago.



Writing software and recording/preparing samples are 2/3 different skillsets and likely done by different staff. The Synchron player is a work-in-progress and it's likely that the piano and fx needed fewer features from the player than the strings do, so they shipped them when ready.

In any case, VI Pro is an excellent piece of software and I'm reluctant to trade it for a new player that isn't also excellent. The best judges of its readiness are VSL, frustrating as it may be to have to wait.


----------



## romantic

Can't take long anymore


----------



## muziksculp

romantic said:


> Can't take long anymore



Yes, hopefully any day this week.


----------



## Cartoon

I really hope the "small bug" is really a small bug and not and a big one...


----------



## ChristianM

Cartoon said:


> I really hope the "small bug" is really a small bug and not and a big one...



Very small bug: when you launch Synchron Player, it generates a cache of infinite size that completely fills the free disk space, suddenly, any soft plant from anywhere and you have to reset the entire system ... but it's not that bad because it also erases all the libraries of instruments and blocks the internet line because the bug report is huge! 

LOL+


----------



## romantic

muziksculp said:


> Yes, hopefully any day this week.


Hopefully any minute this day


----------



## Leo

romantic said:


> Hopefully any minute this day


NEVER! .... don't lose your hope.....


----------



## muziksculp

Well.. Maybe they will finally release it on Thursday June 7th ? 

We have _Spitfire Audio's_ new Solo Strings, and _8Dio_'s new Ostinato Strings being released on Thursday, so hopefully *VSL Synchron Strings 1* will be out the same day too ! That will make June 7th a very special, and cool Strings Libraries release day.


----------



## Tfis

I will be patient and form my opinion when the player is ready.


----------



## romantic

muziksculp said:


> Well.. Maybe they will finally release it on Thursday June 7th ?


Let's hope for it
Tomorrow (friday) might be a bad release day, and next week would make it an 8 month waiting time :(


----------



## Voider

This thread is so sad to read lol


----------



## Leo

Let's give them as much time as vsl guys need. I bet that by Christmas is realistic view, we 
of course can wait :emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn: and smile.:emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn: I like so much this emoticons...

I can in meanwhile give still a little for joy (but mainly correct) = :emoji_couple_with_heart::emoji_couple_mm::emoji_couplekiss::emoji_couple_ww::emoji_unicorn:it's only sample lib:emoji_unicorn:..


----------



## Tfis

They still re-recording the legatos. Be patient.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

This thread is where elephants go to die.


----------



## Piotrek K.

I like that thread. Especially it's title:

*VSL Synchron Strings I Announced (Nov. Release)*

November release. Which year?! Ha, ha, ha! Hilarious. Sob sob.


----------



## Leo

love decent VSL humor from last year to this day...and redefinition word: very soon (or VeSLy soon).
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Synchron_Strings_I


----------



## Cartoon

Guys the Synchron Strings are already out...
It's just the player who is still in process. And the release in November was just for the strings not for the player.

And if you really think the player is going to improve the legato. You will be disappointed


----------



## muziksculp

Cartoon said:


> And if you really think the player is going to improve the legato. You will be disappointed



What makes you so sure ? have you used the new player with Synchron Strings 1 ?


----------



## daviddln

Cartoon's right. Paul himself said that the Synchron Player wouldn't improve the legato.


----------



## Piotrek K.

> Guys the Synchron Strings are already out...
> It's just the player who is still in process. And the release in November was just for the strings not for the player.
> 
> And if you really think the player is going to improve the legato. You will be disappointed



I used to Synchron legatos, theye range from bad to okish to ok. Now I just want to use those strings the way they were advertised. Because while the library is out (we waited for that only 4 months since release date), it is still not finished. And yes, sure, I can use Vienna ensemble etc. But I can also use wrench to hammer nails. It will work. But I prefer to use dedicated tool


----------



## romantic

Cartoon said:


> It's just the player who is still in process. And the release in November was just for the strings not for the player.


Well what i (my opinion) bought is something like: https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Synchron_Strings_I

_(...)_ software innovation. 
_(...)_ new standard in (...) playability 
(...) providing a new level of ease-of-use.
(...) Play short notes, long notes with various attacks, legatos, scalable vibrato intensities and note repetitions with a minimal need to switch articulations, and by moving just one or two preconfigured controllers.
(...) legato re-invented
(...) innovative algorithms 

What I received (until now)
(...) extraordinary musicianship, engineering, recording technology
(...) spectacular ambience of the _Synchron Stage
(...) unprecedented number of velocity layers and note variations

And these things for a pretty attractive price!

So only parts of the promise have been delivered until now. Every time i start synchron strings I am happy with the sound but get frustrated by the usability and stop using it again pretty fast. So i still hope every minute to be able to download the player - and from time to time write about my frustration here 

P.S.: It seems as even unicorns go to this thread to die
_


----------



## Cartoon

muziksculp said:


> What makes you so sure ? have you used the new player with Synchron Strings 1 ?



No but Paul said so...


----------



## muziksculp

Cartoon said:


> No but Paul said so...



I stopped trusting Paul lately.


----------



## Critz

Leo said:


> love decent VSL humor from last year to this day...and redefinition word: very soon (or VeSLy soon).
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Synchron_Strings_I


Still hard to say if it's more funny (sad) to read the "very soon" or the "re-invented legato" part.


----------



## Leo

Critz said:


> Still hard to say if it's more funny (sad) to read the "very soon" or the "re-invented legato" part.


I know, difficult choice. But at least I have a good laugh


----------



## muziksculp

Paul/VSL said they expect the Player to be out in a matter of days, so far ... Nothing !


----------



## Critz

btw, the forum just deleted a post of mine in the last Spitfire new product announcement thread, because it was trollish for them. I can just tell you that I've been far more critic and sarcastic on this VSL thread, and not a post was deleted. Just to let you know how it works..


----------



## muziksculp

Critz said:


> btw, the forum just deleted a post of mine in the last Spitfire new product announcement thread, because it was trollish for them. I can just tell you that I've been far more critic and sarcastic on this VSL thread, and not a post was deleted. Just to let you know how it works..



That's normal, depending on what you posted in the comercial release section. 

This is the Sample Section, so you have more liberty to express your opinion in the Sample Section of the forums.


----------



## Critz

muziksculp said:


> That's normal, depending on what you posted in the comercial release section.
> 
> This is the Sample Section, so you have more liberty to express your opinion in the Sample Section of the forums.


I didn't know that. That's nice to know, because they deleted me another post since I posted 3 times in few minutes. The funny thing is that after the moderation from them, there wasn't any posts of mine left but the one I quoted you.


----------



## muziksculp

Critz said:


> I didn't know that. That's nice to know, because they deleted me another post since I posted 3 times in few minutes. The funny thing is that after the moderation from them, there wasn't any posts of mine left but the one I quoted you.



OK, so now you know.


----------



## muziksculp

I requested an update on Synchron Player for Synchron Strings 1 on the VSL forums from Paul/VSL. Hopefully he will reply shortly with some feedback on what's going on, and when we can finally expect the damn Player.


----------



## Sovereign

I think we'll all be dead of old age when it's finally released.  And the synchron player (at least the piano) is not behaving that well either, keeps crashing rather often and I'm not the only one with that problem.


----------



## Critz

That's the problem. They post-released everything because they wanted to be rock-solid, but at the end it's clear they still released unstable products. I said months ago they need to change/improve their team.


----------



## muziksculp

I think it would be a nice gesture from VSL to give each customer who ordered this library a $100. VSL product voucher for being so patient, and frustrated waiting for the Synchron Strings Player, as soon as the Synchron Player is released. (hehe.. which might never be released).

Do I expect them to do that ? No.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Critz said:


> they need to change/improve their team.



Hear, hear!


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

muziksculp said:


> I requested an update on Synchron Player for Synchron Strings 1 on the VSL forums from Paul/VSL. Hopefully he will reply shortly with some feedback on what's going on, and when we can finally expect the damn Player.



Paul replied. He hopes it will be next week! :(


----------



## Cartoon

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Paul replied. He hopes it will be next week! :(



It made me sad....


----------



## N.Caffrey

If you saw the Spitfire thread you'll see our fellow member Critz has been banned. Goodbye Critz, thank you for the good time!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Trolling is like small time burglary - people start thinking they can get away with it forever.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Here is the quote from Paul/VSL (on the VSL forum) replying to my request for a status update regarding Synchron Player for Synchron Stirngs 1 .

So... The wait continues to next week, and maybe more  
----------------------------------------------------
Quote :

_Hi, 

The good news is: Our development team is tackling that bug right now, and we will gp through one last testing round. 

I know it's another delay, and I hope we will be ready next week. 

Best, 
Paul
------------------------------------------------------_


----------



## Dear Villain

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is the quote from Paul/VSL (on the VSL forum) replying to my request for a status update regarding Synchron Player for Synchron Stirngs 1 .
> 
> So... The wait continues to next week, and maybe more
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Quote :
> 
> _Hi,
> 
> The good news is: Our development team is tackling that bug right now, and we will gp through one last testing round.
> 
> I know it's another delay, and I hope we will be ready next week.
> 
> Best,
> Paul
> ------------------------------------------------------_



I started a project with the Synchron strings before even all the sections were released, and then part way through told myself that I'd wait a few weeks until the player was released. At least I will be able to market the piece as an historical "period piece" by the time I release it.


----------



## muziksculp

Dear Villain said:


> I started a project with the Synchron strings before even all the sections were released, and then part way through told myself that I'd wait a few weeks until the player was released. At least I will be able to market the piece as an historical "period piece" by the time I release it.



Hehe...  Good one ! It's already historic !


----------



## Leo

I now look forward and prepare to do this for celebrate upcoming player:





With love to all good VSL members, 
Leo :emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn::emoji_unicorn:


----------



## romantic

Could somebody please pin this thread?


----------



## Piotrek K.




----------



## Eptesicus

sooooo.....

....oooooooooooooooooon


----------



## Tfis

I'm curious, why the "new" samples aren't available for download in advance.
I can hardly imagine that they have to manually edit them for Sy-player.


----------



## Salorom

I sincerely hope there are new recordings/scripting coming and would commend VSL on such a wise decision.

Then again I wonder why Synchron Percussion has not yet been released in its new format as it was fine as a VI-based library.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Yeah, why isn't the percussion available for the Synchron Player yet?
Sound like the issue is actually converting the recordings to the new file format. Which would also explain why the more recent libraries, that have probably been packed in the new file format from the get-go, are already out and running in the Synchron Player.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Tfis said:


> I'm curious, why the "new" samples aren't available for download in advance. I can hardly imagine that they have to manually edit them for Sy-player.


I'm also wondering... If it's only a small bug, they could provide the samples at least. So when they player is ready, we will be, too.


----------



## Saxer

Saxer said:


> Dimension Strings took one and a half year from publishing the violins to the full section..


Quoting myself... I'm afraid I wasn't too pessimistic in my scheduling as I thought.


----------



## romantic

After browsing in forums again (with the hope to get some updates) and seeing Piotrs post again I also would like to contribute:


----------



## romantic

Todays VSL newsletter does not even mention anything Synchron Like :(


----------



## Piotrek K.




----------



## Sovereign

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Yeah, why isn't the percussion available for the Synchron Player yet?
> Sound like the issue is actually converting the recordings to the new file format. Which would also explain why the more recent libraries, that have probably been packed in the new file format from the get-go, are already out and running in the Synchron Player.


I doubt that's the issue. The Synchron piano player keeps crashing continuously, so the player still has some quirks for sure. looks like it's a bigger issue than they anticipated given the continuous delays.


----------



## C-Wave

Sovereign said:


> I doubt that's the issue. The Synchron piano player keeps crashing continuously, so the player still has some quirks for sure. looks like it's a bigger issue than they anticipated given the continuous delays.


Synchron CFX never crashed once in my case and i use it a lot.. in fact its now my main composing instrument. Win 10 / Cubase 9.5.30.


----------



## synergy543

Sovereign said:


> The Synchron piano player keeps crashing continuously


That's not the case here. I've been using it on a daily basis and I've yet to see a single crash. And I'm using a fairly heavy 8-mic patch.


----------



## Sovereign

C-Wave said:


> Synchron CFX never crashed once in my case and i use it a lot.. in fact its now my main composing instrument. Win 10 / Cubase 9.5.30.


You're lucky then, it works fine for a moment when I insert it into a logic template. But it'll crash logic at some point and the project will refuse to load. I'm not the only one who suffers from this, more people sent in crash reports to vsl.


----------



## Sovereign

synergy543 said:


> That's not the case here. I've been using it on a daily basis and I've yet to see a single crash. And I'm using a fairly heavy 8-mic patch.


I'm not saying it crashes for everyone. That would be something.


----------



## synergy543

I know Guy Bacos is working in Logic and I haven't heard him mention any crashes either. And he's working on some amazing virtuoso performances. I'm not denying your problem but just sharing that its working without issues on at least two other systems. IOW, it might be specific to your system. Did you try adjusting your SSD preload size in the Directory Manager? I had some issues until I got that setting right. Otherwise, sending the crashlog to VSL should help them figure the problem out with you. I'm really enjoying this piano so you'll be glad when you get it set up properly.


----------



## Sovereign

synergy543 said:


> I'm really enjoying this piano so you'll be glad when you get it set up properly.


Yeah the piano is excellent and I'm a bit irritated this prevents me from using it properly as I enjoy playing it, best piano ever as far as I am concerned. The problem however seems to have something to do with initialization of the plug-in, already sent in a crash report. Jay Bacal appears to suffer from similar troubles: 
https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t48817-Nuendo-Crashing-upon-scanning-Synchron-Piano


----------



## synergy543

Sovereign said:


> I'm not saying it crashes for everyone. That would be something.


But its happening for enough of you that I wouldn't worry about it really. I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of it soon enough. It would bey a lot more worrying if it were only you're own system as then its harder to track down and mostly up to you. I've run into enough of these problems on my own to know how frustrating it can be. Hang in there! It will be worth it.


----------



## al_net77

Sovereign said:


> Yeah the piano is excellent and I'm a bit irritated this prevents me from using it properly as I enjoy playing it, best piano ever as far as I am concerned. The problem however seems to have something to do with initialization of the plug-in, already sent in a crash report. Jay Bacal appears to suffer from similar troubles:
> https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t48817-Nuendo-Crashing-upon-scanning-Synchron-Piano



There is an update, worth a try...


----------



## wcreed51

June 12th, 2018
Synchron Pianos 1.0.750
• Added: "Release Extension" algorithm and parameters (EDIT View)
• Added: "Release Sample level" parameter (EDIT View)
• Fixed: Folder selection bug in library installer
• Fixed: Occasional crashes on plug-in insert


----------



## Cartoon

I think we have to wait for another week!....


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Not sure I really care anymore.


----------



## romantic

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Not sure I really care anymore.


Yeah, thats how i fee as well
From hope, frustration, sarkasm, cynism to resignation ...
However I still check forums every day, so there might be some hope somewhere deep inside me.


----------



## Vadium

How to salvage a library, if there isn't plans to improve/fix legato? yes - don't release a SY player, never!  because a waiting is more sweet, than disappointment from the release of the player with same sound as in Instruments Pro.. )
I still check a downloads page too..


----------



## Tfis

I hope VSL recognized, that they're going to fuck up their reputation.


----------



## Dear Villain

There's a strategy in public relations that in the face of criticism and controversy, it's better to remain silent than to defend your position, as it might blow up in your face leading to even more attention being drawn to the situation. Clearly, VSL is following this strategy, trying to avoid engaging people in a back and forth debate. To some though, it will appear as arrogance on their part, or a lack of consideration for frustrated customers that have been waiting month after month for a player that seemingly will never come. Further, digging their feet in the sand by resisting the idea that the legatos are not up to standard does further harm to the goodwill and trust of customers. Pride is a powerful force, and when you've done as much quality work as VSL has, it's hard to accept that this might be one time where you fell short.


----------



## Symfoniq

Dear Villain said:


> Pride is a powerful force, and when you've done as much quality work as VSL has, it's hard to accept that this might be one time where you fell short.



I've certainly lost a great deal of faith in VSL over this debacle, and won't ever pre-order any of their products again. VSL admitting the library isn't up to their usual standards and going back to the drawing board would go a long way toward repairing the damage, but I'd be very surprised if this actually happened.


----------



## Tfis

Some things shouldn't been re-invented


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I requested an update on the status of the Synchron Strings 1 Player from Paul/VSL on their official forum today. 

Let's see what they will say this week. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Eptesicus

Dear Villain said:


> There's a strategy in public relations that in the face of criticism and controversy, it's better to remain silent than to defend your position, as it might blow up in your face leading to even more attention being drawn to the situation. Clearly, VSL is following this strategy, trying to avoid engaging people in a back and forth debate. To some though, it will appear as arrogance on their part, or a lack of consideration for frustrated customers that have been waiting month after month for a player that seemingly will never come. Further, digging their feet in the sand by resisting the idea that the legatos are not up to standard does further harm to the goodwill and trust of customers. Pride is a powerful force, and when you've done as much quality work as VSL has, it's hard to accept that this might be one time where you fell short.




It is a stupid strategy though. I absolutely can't see any other business decision that makes sense other than re recording the legato.

The Synchron range is finished with out it. Who is going to recommend it as an orchestral library when the string legato is so far behind the competition. 

It isn't even like their stuff is that cheap for what you get either!


----------



## SomeGuy

Dear Villain said:


> lack of consideration for frustrated customers that have been waiting month after month for a player that seemingly will never come.



Seemingly never come? Really?! I've seen numerous updates in this thread on its progress as quoted directly from VSL themselves! Granted its not here yet, but that is far from never coming.


----------



## Dear Villain

SomeGuy said:


> Seemingly never come? Really?! I've seen numerous updates in this thread on its progress as quoted directly from VSL themselves! Granted its not here yet, but that is far from never coming.



Taking the statement a little too literally, I think.


----------



## al_net77

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I requested an update on the status of the Synchron Strings 1 Player from Paul/VSL on their official forum today.
> 
> Let's see what they will say this week.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Next week...


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Paul replied that he believes it will be next week. THANKS for our patience. I'm feeling fooled a bit. :(


----------



## Piotrek K.

Eh, assuring every week that next week is THE week is not great strategy.

If they would say: guys, we are in deep shit, this and this doesn't work and we need time, don't hold your breath, here's voucher for you, do something productive, wait for e-mail. Or better don't wait. I would probably say "fuck, but ok" and I would move on. But it seems that VSL doesn't want to show human face.

It also seems that they do not feel any obligation toward us - wanna get another dismissive info? You need to ask for it.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Yeah, fuck it. At this point, a voucher is the only thing that would conciliate me a bit.


----------



## Cartoon

another bug?? or do they need over 1 week to test everything?


----------



## C-Wave

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Yeah, fuck it. At this point, a voucher is the only thing that would conciliate me a bit.


+1


----------



## mobileavatar

C-Wave said:


> +1



If VSL is soooooo confident that people will LOVE Synchron Strings w/ the new player, they should offer FULL REFUND as an option. That will be the ultimate proof how good VSL really thinks the new player is...


----------



## Dear Villain

mobileavatar said:


> If VSL is soooooo confident that people will LOVE Synchron Strings w/ the new player, they should offer FULL REFUND as an option. That will be the ultimate proof how good VSL really thinks the new player is...



When you wish upon a star...


----------



## mobileavatar

Dear Villain said:


> When you wish upon a star...


bling bling...

As Paul/VSL often makes very bold claims, just thought that would the ultimate one...


----------



## muziksculp

It's getting harder, and harder to trust Paul's statements regarding when they will finally release the Synchron Strings 1 Player. 

Here we go again, Next Week another time around, and around, and around we go. I'm getting very dizzy ...


----------



## Casiquire

Symfoniq said:


> I've certainly lost a great deal of faith in VSL over this debacle, and won't ever pre-order any of their products again. VSL admitting the library isn't up to their usual standards and going back to the drawing board would go a long way toward repairing the damage, but I'd be very surprised if this actually happened.



If that's how you're feeling, my advice is to never preorder any software, ever. This is seriously not uncommon anymore and we shouldn't keep encouraging the behavior by buying in every time.


----------



## romantic

Damn, still checking everyday for updates ....
I did not loose faith in VSL or their products, but I am still absolutely unhappy with the communication strategy, and anything about motivating early adopters. What about "10% discount for every month the player is not out for a synchron lib?")
For a complete "not saying anything" strategy they say too much ("Just one bug we discovered when we wanted to distribute it", or "Software is ready, we are just translating the sample format to a new format now", ...)

Or the legato part, no real staement here It could be:
-) We think this is exactly how legato should sound. But future extensions might add additional samples like super-slurred, portamento, ...
-) We anticipated the feedback from the community, and are going to release new legato samples (however this still can take time)
-) The player is going to be a step forward and will definitely improve legato through super advanced scripting. We aim for being the best legato library in the world, what the player won't fix will be added with additional samples


----------



## novaburst

Unforseen circumstances does often have people to see us in a different light, and is a major course of disharmony, and break ups. 
Especially when we can not explain the circumstances, 

This often happens in marriage, friendship, 
And more so in business.


----------



## Symfoniq

Casiquire said:


> If that's how you're feeling, my advice is to never preorder any software, ever. This is seriously not uncommon anymore and we shouldn't keep encouraging the behavior by buying in every time.



I rarely pre-order anything. But there are a few companies who have built up enough trust that I've made exceptions. It gives me no pleasure to say that VSL is no longer on that very short list.


----------



## romantic

Symfoniq said:


> VSL is no longer on that very short list.


Pun?
VSL = Very Short List?


----------



## Eptesicus

Symfoniq said:


> I rarely pre-order anything. But there are a few companies who have built up enough trust that I've made exceptions. It gives me no pleasure to say that VSL is no longer on that very short list.



Forget just pre-ordering from VSL again, i likely just won't buy anything from them again, ever.

False advertising*
*Library only fully out 4-5 months after they said it would be
*Legato isn't re-invented at all, it is worse than most other string libraries.
Poor promotion execution during the pre-order (ie the voucher debacle)
Player still nowhere to be seen even though they have released two other libraries in the meantime with the new player
Very little in the way of apology or acknowledgment of how rubbish A. they have been and B. the library is.


----------



## Prockamanisc

Does anyone remember when Fable Sounds was going to release the update to Broadway Big Band last year? And they reset their homepage to a countdown clock? And when 0:00:00 hit, nothing happened, and the owner had to say "it's not ready yet, sorry", and it was a few more weeks? 

Thinking back, that was pretty funny. I think this will be funny next year. Actually, I already think it's pretty funny. "Synchron next week" has been a humorous catchphrase around the studio for a few months.


----------



## Casiquire

Symfoniq said:


> I rarely pre-order anything. But there are a few companies who have built up enough trust that I've made exceptions. It gives me no pleasure to say that VSL is no longer on that very short list.



That's just it though, VSL has had delays before with Dimension which took still longer to release than Synchron has so far, and DS is one of my favorite string products. This isn't a new thing even with VSL. Nobody has my trust, and I think that's just the way to be.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

VSL should release their *Synchron Player* for Synchron Strings 1 when it is finally ready, I don't think the next week promises from Paul are going to be taken seriously at this point (at least I'm not taking any of his promises seriously).

*Here is what I would expect to see from Synchron Strings 1's Synchron Player when it is finally released :*

1. It runs very efficiently, bug free, and is super stable.

2. It offers a major improvement to the Legato functionality compared to the way it worked in VI-Pro2. (If this is not offered by the new Synchron Player, there will be a lot of unhappy VSL customers).

3. It offers major workflow improvements, that will speed up production, and customization of this library. 

4. I expect VSL to post new Video Tutorials showing how the new Legato Functionality that the Synchron Player offers sound, and how to use it properly.

5. I expect VSL to post a healthy number of new, and diverse style audio demos of Synchron Strings 1 done using the new Synchron Player.

Again, I think the bottom line is that we have been waiting far too long, and I personally don't mind waiting as long as it takes for all of the above points to be fulfilled by VSL.

imho. Rushing the release at this point makes no sense. Having lots of Patience, and the super long waiting time is part of the process. Unfortunately, this is all due to VSL releasing a product before it is ready. I hope they learned a good lesson from this experience, I also feel this is a good lesson for us, to think twice, and three times, before purchasing a product from VSL if it is not yet ready, and finally released, and delivers what it promises.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muziksculp said:


> 2. It offers a major improvement to the Legato functionality compared to the way it worked in VI-Pro2. (If this is not offered by the new Synchron Player, there will be a lot of unhappy VSL customers).



Still not sure what exactly everyone's expecting here.

The Synchron Player couldn't possibly improve the legato so extensively. In which way could some clever scripting help in this case? There's a reason why people place so much value in "true legato". Generally people prefer recorded transitions to scripted legato. There are reasons for that. From that perspective, it seems odd to me that a piece of software is now supposed to salvage what is supposed to be VSLs new flagship string product.

Even if the Player does something to the legato - would it be just scripting trickery and ultimately a band-aid solution?

I'm also still not quite sure why everyone made up their minds that this is the worst legato since WW2. Compare the Synchron Strings soft legato with the Orchestral Strings legato. It's very similar. The SyS one is a little bit nicer - in a similar way the Appassionata legato was a bit better than the Orchestral Strings one. I don't have Dimension Strings - perhaps their legato was on a whole different level and this is where the disappointment over SyS comes from. But as a user of previous VSL String libraries (Chamber, Orchestral, Appassionata), I can't really tell why the SyS one is suddenly the worst thing that could have possibly happened when in fact it's actually quite similar to what VSL was always doing. Maybe expectations have just shifted since the old VSL times?

If VSL was really to do something about the legato in its current form, I believe re-editing or possibly re-recording would have to be done. I'm not an expert when it comes to editing or scripting by no means, but to my ears it sounds as if they cut into the transition samples quite aggresively, compared to legato patches of some other companies' libraries, and the sustain part is kind of tacked onto that, and the attack is very immediate.

When I compare SyS legato to some of the other string libraries I have - for example Cinematic Studio Strings - then what I'm noticing is that the latter for example doesn't even really have a "standard" legato patch. Every and any legato in CSS is actually VERY slurred, with a very noticeable delay, even with the "classic" patch. And maybe this is what a lot of people kind of came to expect from string libraries - super-slurred playing that's almost portamento.

Hollywood Strings is much more comparable to VSL legato and functions in a similar fashion - the transition samples are separate from the sustain portion - but the transition just seems to be longer, and the crossfade is smoother, so that it doesn't produce that weird bump that SyS has that feels and sounds a little bit like playing some synth keyboard patch.

Spitfire Chamber Strings don't have that excessive slur built in, but the transition is audibly delayed and not that immediate as in SyS, and the sustaining note has a nice smoth arc to it, which is why it feels smoother and natural when playing. I'm not even sure if it's really been performed that way or if the Performance Legato patch was scripted in way that the followup note comes with a slight delay and some kind of smooth crossfade.

But anyways, that's what I'm hearing. Maybe this is something VSL _could_ re-script in the Synchron Player - leave a bit more of the legato transition in, delay or crossfade into the sustain portion a little more laid back. Don't know. But I wouldn't expect wonders. If the recordings are already the way they are, I'm not sure if there's a way for VSL to make people happy without recording stuff again and mimicking what other popular string libraries are doing because apparently that's what people want.


----------



## ChristianM

what people want is probably that the promise of *reinvented legato* is held, hence the disappointment


----------



## Sovereign

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I'm not an expert when it comes to editing or scripting by no means, but to my ears it sounds as if they cut into the transition samples quite aggresively, compared to legato patches of some other companies' libraries, and the sustain part is kind of tacked onto that, and the attack is very immediate.


Yes, this. This is fixable depending on how much of the transition remains in the data set. They could add a legato sample start slider like Jaeger has, which lets the user set the sample starting point.


----------



## C-Wave

Sovereign said:


> Yes, this. This is fixable depending on how much of the transition remains in the data set. They could add a legato sample start slider like Jaeger has, which lets the user set the sample starting point.


+1


----------



## jamwerks

One thing is the legato scripting and another is the player. I wouldn't expect the new player to effect how the legato sounds, unless there's some funky voodoo going on...


----------



## muziksculp

jamwerks said:


> One thing is the legato scripting and another is the player. I wouldn't expect the new player to effect how the legato sounds, unless there's some funky voodoo going on...



I have a feeling that VSL are doing more than just trying to fix a few last bugs they encountered, as far as the new Synchron Strings 1 Player is concerned. Again, I'm just guessing.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> I have a feeling that VSL are doing more than just trying to fix a few last bugs they encountered, as far as the new Synchron Strings 1 Player is concerned. Again, I'm just guessing.



This was my thought too. It would be a great customer service move if the update came with a lot more than expected, such as recordings or reedits


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> It would be a great customer service move if the update came with a lot more than expected, such as recordings or reedits



Yes, that would be a great gesture, and a smart move by VSL. But there is no way to know until they finally release the player.


----------



## Salorom

I sincerely hope they go that route and take as much time as they need. I can wait a few more months if VSL is busy fixing what still sounds like a very promising library.


----------



## Eptesicus

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> If VSL was really to do something about the legato in its current form, I believe re-editing or possibly re-recording would have to be done. I'm not an expert when it comes to editing or scripting by no means, but to my ears it sounds as if they cut into the transition samples quite aggresively, compared to legato patches of some other companies' libraries, and the sustain part is kind of tacked onto that, and the attack is very immediate.
> .



Absolutely this. If you listen to the non soft legato patches especially, you can hear that pretty much the whole attack is left on the start of each note, even after a transition making it not sound like legato at all.


----------



## Leo

I heard, while VSL guys :emoji_unicorn: searching for lost LEGATOS, that on 150 page will be a big party that I can not miss!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

I've been experimenting with trying to smooth out the attack of the sustained note after the legato transition in VI Pro in order to create a more likeable legato sound and feel.
This is what I've been doing:


"Advanced" tab, again to "Advanced" view (next to Mixer, Voice, Edit, Stretch).
Set Start offset mode to legato - obviously, affecting only the note that's being transitioned to, not the starting note of a phrase.
Start offset set to 1 ms - This actually cuts into the transition sample, which is the opposite of what I want. But the setting needs to be at least 1 ms for the next parameter to do anything.
Start offset attack - this adds a crossfade to the note that's being transitioned into. Which in theory should be what I'm looking for, because it kills the immediate, bumpy attack of the sustained sample that causes the disconnected keyboard-y sound. For the soft legato patch, I set this to a very high value, like 365 ms.
Now if you set the global "start" scaler to max, the effect becomes audible. I think it actually sounds quite workable. I wish there was a way to stretch the transition samples themselves a bit and make them a little louder.

But yeah, have fun doing this with all the legato patches in all mic positions for all sections, and also their crossfade ressource patches in order to also be able to transition from novib to vib ...


----------



## muziksculp

@Jimmy Hellfire

Thanks for the helpful feedback.

I seriously have no interest in running Synchron Stirngs 1 , or any Synchron based library in VI-Pro 2. That's why I didn't even bother with downloading Synchron Strings 1 (Full Version).

They simply were not developed to work with in VI-Pro 2. So... Let's hope the new Synchron Strings 1 Player will deliver a great workflow, and improve the legato functionality.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## mobileavatar

VSL has released a new synchron player... maybe it's a very good sign that the Strings library will follow soon?


----------



## Salorom

The Synchron player and SY 1st violins are available for download


----------



## al_net77

Yep!


----------



## teclark7

1st violins are up for Synchron Player. Downloading now


----------



## Sovereign

Well, finally. Almost done downloading and giving it a try.


----------



## teclark7

Videos up as well: 

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Synchron_Strings_I#!Videos


----------



## Francis Bourre

Would enjoy feedback from you guys when you will be done with testing the new player. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Vadium

mobileavatar said:


> The manual shows 6 legato types:
> soft
> normal
> marcato
> fast
> fast marcato
> slur
> !!!



marcato is just combination of legato and marcato articulations

For my ears a legato patches sounds same as in vipro version :(


----------



## mobileavatar

Vadium said:


> marcato is just combination of legato and marcato articulations



yes... hallucination earlier...


----------



## teclark7

This video is well worth watching:


----------



## lucor

Paul is once again doing a disservice to the legatos by playing them without dynamic crossfading IMO. Very hard to hear if there's much of an improvement to the VI Pro version. Looking forward to user demos and opinions!


----------



## Vadium

So, from this moment I am start to waiting for a new library, SY Strings Lost Legato..


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

I *really *like the way they've set up the columns - looks really flexible.


----------



## Sovereign

Well the player is a huge step forward in terms of working with the library. That is for sure. However, so far the problems with the legato remain as fas as I'm concerned. In fact, I don't get why they divided the legato into slurred and non-slurred. The slurred legato patch in Synchron has a way more pronounced, almost portamento-like, sound to it. You can't play a melody without it sounding weird. So, are the other legato types not fingered legato? If so, what are they? There is no pronounced slur in these as you'd expect. I have a feeling this is part of the mystery why the regular legatos do not sound the same as in other libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

*Thanks to VSL for finally releasing the Synchron Player for Synchron Strings 1 . *

Now, I need to install a new SSD drive for this library, I will be running it on a dedicated Slave-PC, hosted via VE-Pro 6. 

More files for this library will be added in the coming days, so it's going to take some additional time for the entire library to become downloadable. I look forward to see how I like it, and will also test the legato options and the rest of the articulations , it offers, and post some feedback once I have worked with it for a few days. 

Meanwhile, I will be checking out the new tutorial videos posted of the new Synchron Strings 1 Player. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Vadium

Player-version takes up less space: 1-st Violins vipro version = 70gb, player version = 61gb


----------



## Eptesicus

teclark7 said:


> This video is well worth watching:



The functions of the player look excellent. However i still have my doubt from that video as to whether the legato sounds any more realistic.

Will try to download it at some point this week and have a go.


----------



## Eptesicus

Vadium said:


> Player-version takes up less space: 1-st Violins vipro version = 70gb, player version = 61gb



That's good.


----------



## muziksculp

Vadium said:


> Player-version takes up less space: 1-st Violins vipro version = 70gb, player version = 61gb



That's most likely due to the new sample format they are using in the new Player.


----------



## Tfis

Weren't there tight and loose release articulations in the vi samples to choose from?
Can't find them in the new library manual.


----------



## Vadium

Tfis said:


> Weren't there tight and loose release articulations in the vi samples to choose from?


only tight.. as one big violin)


----------



## Tfis

AB switch: release ringing/stopped

Where is it?


----------



## Cartoon

This thread has over 200.000 views *WoW*


----------



## Prockamanisc

Cartoon said:


> This thread has over 200.000 views *WoW*


That sounds right. I've checked it 1,000 times a day for the last 200 days.


----------



## ChristianM

200002 now with me


----------



## FabioA

I'm a bit confused with the "_minimal need to switch articulations_" part, that I think it is definitely missing. With VI Pro 2 I'm in love with the remote app, and the matrix was perfect to switch between very different articulations with a simple click. Now, with the "dimensions' tree" you have to follow a SPECIFIC order of keyswitches to select the articulation you want.. and that also mean that a simple click/touch is no longer enough to select a certain articulation.


----------



## Tfis

You still can build your own presets.


----------



## novaburst

Great to have the new player release offering a lot of playable options streamlining into one player,



FabioA said:


> I'm a bit confused with the "_minimal need to switch articulations_" part. With VI Pro 2 I'm in love with the remote app, and the matrix was perfect to switch between very different articulations with a simple click. Now, with the "dimensions' tree" you have to follow a SPECIFIC order of keyswitches to select the articulation you want.. and that also mean that a simple click/touch is no longer enough to select a certain articul



It may be a bit to much to ask but I would suggest down loading the new format onto a different folder, or drive
It may take some getting used to the new player, yes it means more space but there could be some playable functions
you may prefer in the instrument.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Yeah, what do I do with an absurdly large library that takes up completely irresponsible amounts of storage space?
I'm gonna keep it on my drives in two different formats, just in case.


----------



## FabioA

novaburst said:


> Great to have the new player release offering a lot of playable options streamlining into one player,
> 
> 
> 
> It may be a bit to much to ask but I would suggest down loading the new format onto a different folder, or drive
> It may take some getting used to the new player, yes it means more space but there could be some playable functions
> you may prefer in the instrument.


Actually I'm using the new Player for a couple of weeks since I purchased Syn FX Strings right away. And I love how the dimension tree handles a library with so many different patches as FX Strings has.
But in the current form of Synchron Strings I and its limited number of articulations, it doesn't make much sense, imho.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Yeah, what do I do with an absurdly large library that takes up completely irresponsible amounts of storage space?
> I'm gonna keep it on my drives in two different formats, just in case.



Haha, well its always there in your download at VSL myVSL, so I guess you can go ahead and delete if your not in a project.

two very big files, not enough in this world for the two


----------



## Tfis

For creating your own control mappings:

This player is MUCH more better then VI-Pro.


----------



## FabioA

Tfis said:


> For creating your own control mappings:
> 
> MUCH more better



That's correct as much as your statement


----------



## jamwerks

Is the player ready for Synchron Percussion?


----------



## muziksculp

jamwerks said:


> Is the player ready for Synchron Percussion?



Good Question. I haven't noticed VSL posting anything about this.

I haven't purchased any Synchron Perc. libraries yet, it would be helpful to know if they released the Synchron Player for Synchron Perc. If it was released it will show up in 'MyVSL' section, provided you purchased it. Anyone have Synch. Perc. able to provide some feedback on this ?


----------



## C-Wave

muziksculp said:


> Good Question. I haven't noticed VSL posting anything about this.
> 
> I haven't purchased any Synchron Perc. libraries yet, it would be helpful to know if they released the Synchron Player for Synchron Perc. If it was released it will show up in 'MyVSL' section, provided you purchased it. Anyone have Synch. Perc. able to provide some feedback on this ?


no.. nothing.


----------



## wbacer

jamwerks said:


> Is the player ready for Synchron Percussion?


I have Synchron Perc. Just looked on my VSL page but I didn't see anything new listed for Synchron Perc.
Within the new Synchron Player, I added Synchron Perc to the Synchron Player database but no Perc presets showed up in the Preset window. Either I'm missing something or the new Synchron Player isn't ready for Synchron Perc.
In one of the new Synchron Player videos, Paul did mention Synchron Perc so hopefully it will be available soon for the new player.

It would also be nice to have a companion iPad app to go along with the new player.
We'll see, it appears they still have a lot to roll out.


----------



## muziksculp

OK, so it looks like they are not ready to release Synchron Player for Synchron Perc yet.

Hopefully they will release it (Soon) .


----------



## mobileavatar

The usability of the new Synchron player is definitely great improvement over its predecessor. Yet, I can't stop thinking , with the new player, I realize how little articulations are actually included in this Strings I library, when comparing with FX Strings I.

I doubt even when they put out Strings II, the art list would be enough to cover the basic.

The dimension tree is great, but using the cells for switching vibrato is quite cumbersome. VSL could have just added a parameter on the side (just like many other devs do)...


----------



## Tfis

FabioA said:


> That's correct as much as your statement


Lol, got it


----------



## novaburst

mobileavatar said:


> Yet, I can't stop thinking , with the new player, I realize how little articulations are actually included in this Strings I library, when comparing with FX Strings I.



I think the problem with being a developer with so many top string library's is trying to find a good balance between them all,

I think the developer hopes for genuine users to find a place in there projects for each library and can get maximum use from the library's as a whole and not as one.



mobileavatar said:


> The dimension tree is great, but using the cells for switching vibrato is quite cumbersome. VSL could have just added a parameter on the side (just like many other devs do)...



This of course should keep you coming back for more from there string line instead of going else where. 

Not sure if a developer can do a head shot library and would rather go with the theory that they try there best at a pacific type of library as it is being developed, if there was ever a case of a head shot library then it could mean there existing library's want sell.

So variety is key for developers,


----------



## C-Wave

Violins 2 (stereo and Multi) out.


----------



## Cartoon

2nd violins Stereo Download is online now!


----------



## Cartoon

C-Wave said:


> Violins 2 (stereo and Multi) out.



hahaha we posted it at the same time


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

mobileavatar said:


> The dimension tree is great, but using the cells for switching vibrato is quite cumbersome. VSL could have just added a parameter on the side (just like many other devs do)...



You can just set up a dimension that consists of the vibrato patch and the noVib crossfade ressource patch, turn ot the parallel mode and assign the crossfade to a CC. That way it behaves like a standard patch where the vibrato is controlled by CC. I've set all up all the patches that way.


----------



## cadenzajon

While everyone is downloading the new Synchron Player encodings I'd like to take a second to publicly wonder why VSL would use the names "short" and "super short" for the Synchron Strings articulations.

They've always been sticklers for accuracy in musical terms (in fact I think I learned the meaning of "portato" from their libraries) and it's baffling to me why they would eschew staccato/staccatissimo.

Weird, if you ask me.


----------



## mobileavatar

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> You can just set up a dimension that consists of the vibrato patch and the noVib crossfade ressource patch, turn ot the parallel mode and assign the crossfade to a CC. That way it behaves like a standard patch where the vibrato is controlled by CC. I've set all up all the patches that way.



Thanks for the suggestion! I saw that too in the walkthru video, but just thought setting vibrato using a column of dimension takes up quite a bit of screen-estate. If it's always no-vib, vib, and lyrical vib, VSL could have a simple knob (like Synchron Piano) or a slider (like Spitfire SCS). Using a dimension would make lots of sense if VSL is planning to release more vibrato types (but I can't think of any at this moment...).


----------



## stigc56

cadenzajon said:


> While everyone is downloading the new Synchron Player encodings I'd like to take a second to publicly wonder why VSL would use the names "short" and "super short" for the Synchron Strings articulations.
> 
> They've always been sticklers for accuracy in musical terms (in fact I think I learned the meaning of "portato" from their libraries) and it's baffling to me why they would eschew staccato/staccatissimo.
> 
> Weird, if you ask me.


Well Staccato in the classic sense, doesn't mean short but separated. Anyway that's what George Hurst taught me, when I once attended one of his courses,


----------



## FabioA

stigc56 said:


> Well Staccato in the classic sense, doesn't mean short but separated. Anyway that's what George Hurst taught me, when I once attended one of his courses,


With all due respect this sounds more like a "strong quote" every director likes to have, than a true statement  . If the composer wants separated he writes "non legato". Staccato means (more or less) short. As italian I can tell you "staccato" means just separated, but as a musical term it means a short sound as we all know.
We're quite OT from what @cadenzajon wrote btw :D


----------



## stigc56

Well you said yourself, staccato means short! 
I prefer the short for staccato, because many libraries seems to think of staccato as a *pronounced* short note, leaving staccato pp behind. With VSL you know there is considerations behind such a decision so I go with the flow.


----------



## Saxer

cadenzajon said:


> ...why VSL would use the names "short" and "super short" for the Synchron Strings articulations.


I think it has to do with section sizes. I read from different developers that in bigger sections there's no audible difference between staccato and spiccato. Probably the part of detail that gets lost and makes the difference between chamber and orchestral. Spitfire Symphonic Strings and HZ Strings doesn't have different samples for spicc and stacc too.


----------



## mobileavatar

NO CELL AUTO-NAMING

Unlike VI (pro), the synchron player does not have auto-naming function.

When I drag a patch to the tree, the cell stays "untitled". I wrote to VSL, and Paul/VSL told me to copy and paste the names from the presets. (What I need to open another instance just for copying the names??!!!!)

Worse yet, Paul/VSL said such feature will be added in the near feature. Currently, it's only on the so-called "wish list".


----------



## Casiquire

As a musical term staccato means to play the note for half the written duration. A whole note at 60bpm with a staccato mark would technically be played for two full seconds, then two seconds rest. In practice a player won't necessarily be so clinical, they'll use their judgment.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Player is great, setting things up the way I want is a breeze. It looks nice, works fast and new sample format takes less space. Awesome. But there are details I don't like:

- no keyboard support at all. Everything has to be done with mouse click - for me it is annoying
- velocity crossfade seems to be global so I can't turn it off (or don't know how to) on shorts or pizzicatos
- no auto-naming

Sound wise? Same, but better. Why? At last I can mix mics without pain and hear vibrato (although lyrical one seems to sound a bit quieter than normal which doesn't make 100% smooth crossfade). Mic presets are very good. Also built in reverb works suprisingly well and makes the sounds thicker, but still detailed. And this is the biggest sonic surprise to me.

Legatoes? I think they sound better. Because VSL is dialing by default legato blur to 30! Seems like a simple trick to make me think, that legato is indeed better. But I still don't think it is. My ears want to hear improvement, but my mind is saying "there is no pie".

Was it worth the wait? No. Does it reached its hype? No. Does the player improve the library? Yes, huge step forward, but still this is not a library worth 600$. But it is just my opinion. Will see how Synchron will work during sequencing, composing.

ps. Still don't know how to use those slurs, sometimes they are very pronounced, sometimes they are invisible...


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Piotrek K. ,

Thanks for your feedback on the new Synchron Strings 1 Player, and the library in general. 

I'm sure you will discover more details as you get more experienced with using the new Player, and the Library. I won't be installing it until another week or two, hopefully they will have uploaded more content for download by then. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Tfis

Piotrek K. said:


> velocity crossfade seems to be global so I can't turn it off (or don't know how to) on shorts or pizzicatos



p. 24


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

For me the library isn't worth the price either, especially the full version. I still don't like the legato and all the velocity layers, because there isn't really a great timbre change. For me, but this is subjective, the room tone is too much. And the close microphones have too much reverb for my taste. Pity, because I really like the Dennis Sand mixes from Synchron Stage, but with this library I'm not able too make this "Hollywood" sound. So I will stay with the Appassionatas (and LASS).


----------



## Piotrek K.

Tfis said:


> p. 24



Thanks, I didn't notice new manual


----------



## FabioA

Casiquire said:


> As a musical term staccato means to play the note for half the written duration. A whole note at 60bpm with a staccato mark would technically be played for two full seconds, then two seconds rest. In practice a player won't necessarily be so clinical, they'll use their judgment.


Who told you that??


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I currently see (Violins 1 : Stereo and Multi), (Violins 2 : Stereo and Multi), (Cellos : Stereo and Multi) available for download.

No Violas, or Basses have been posted yet.

Q. Are the Multi Library downloads the Multiple Mics for the Full Version, or just the Standard Version ?


Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## synergy543

muziksculp said:


> Q. Are the Multi Library downloads the Multiple Mics for the Full Version ?


Yes.


----------



## muziksculp

synergy543 said:


> Yes.



OK. Thanks


----------



## mobileavatar

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> For me the library isn't worth the price either, especially the full version.



The articulations covered is almost half of a typical VSL STANDARD library - no harmonics, no spiccato, no portato, no runs, etc.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

mobileavatar said:


> The articulations covered is almost half of a typical VSL STANDARD library - no harmonics, no spiccato, no portato, no runs, etc.


And even from these a few aren't real, e.g. the sforzatos. They sound stacked and fake for me. And the various attacks (marcato) are just stacked versions, too. Nothing new, nothing special, no re-invention.


----------



## mobileavatar

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> And even from these a few aren't real, e.g. the sforzatos. They sound stacked and fake for me. And the various attacks (marcato) are just stacked versions, too. Nothing new, nothing special, no re-invention.



+1. "Synchron Strings" should be renamed as "Synthy Strings".


----------



## muziksculp

The* Violas* (Stereo and Multi) are ready for download.


----------



## muziksculp

The *Basses* (Stereo and Multi), and *All Strings *are ready for download.


----------



## Sovereign

Officially giving up on Synchron Strings. After downloading the violins and violas I just can't get passed the flaws in the legatos. If some people are happy with it, great for them. It doesn't work for me, they're unworkable and IMO it's a seriously flawed product compared to the competition. I still don't get why the screwed this up. Partially the mix is also to blame, they should indeed have had someone like Dennis Sands involved. Too bad, lost opportunity.


----------



## novaburst

I am looking at the size in myVSL download and for the standard library it is nearly half the size of the existing instrument down load, what kind of wizardry did VSL do to accomplish this, pretty amazing.

I was also checking out VEpro 6 and seeing how they managed to got even more lower cpu consumption is pretty sick.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Sovereign said:


> Officially giving up on Synchron Strings. After downloading the violins and violas I just can't get passed the flaws in the legatos. If some people are happy with it, great for them. It doesn't work for me, they're unworkable and IMO it's a seriously flawed product compared to the competition. I still don't get why the screwed this up. Partially the mix is also to blame, they should indeed have had someone like Dennis Sands involved. Too bad, lost opportunity.



I think the sound is the biggest problem. Something really weird going on in higher frequencies between 5khz and 10khz especially, sounds sort of like phasing. And the big resonance turd around 2-300hz, cant remember now (mind you, all libraries have some low-mid frequency resonance problem, it seems it is unavoidable in recordings, some inherent room frequency I guess).

And of course the lack of musicality in the playing is also a big issue with it.

I haven't tested it much yet, but haven't found major legato issues, what are the problems?


----------



## Sovereign

Obviously it's very much a combination of multiple factors, Simon. Yes, the sound is a very big problem and probably impacted the recorded legato transitions equally. It just didn't turn out very well. The fact that there's a need for a legato "blur" is already a good sign they realize the transitions and edits are flawed. There would be no need to mask them otherwise. They should have noticed this in the first stages of recording, but for some reason they didn't.


----------



## Tfis

The idea how to set up patches with sy player is great, as i mentioned before.
But after some time i found out, that the rest, compared to vi, is more than one step backwards.
So many "silly" desgin flaws: missing auto slot naming, no values are shown for articulations controlled with cc (important for setting up expression maps), editing controller curve is just guessing, missing mixer presets when starting from scratch, ...,

I could make a list, but no one will pay me for...

Hanging notes, vanishing mouse pointers (or sometimes the right-click just doesn't work).

BTW:
soft sustain has NO ROUND ROBIN. You hear it by pressing "F" (a lower one, can't remember the number  ) at low to medium-low dynamics, because there is a annoying noise in the attack.
And the SAME SAMPLE with that noise ist used in one of the legatos (legatos have round robins)!

You can use samples twice, ok, but not these ones which are noisy!
And never ever put fucked up samples in a sound with no round robins!
This is not VSL as I know it.

I just set up my 1st violin custom preset. When I'm finished with all strings, I'll write some music.

If the music sounds good, I'll apologize and regret all my doubts.

If I sucks, sound wise of course (the composition sucks always...), I'll leave the VSL road.

I never bought their stuff, because it sounds best OOTB compared to the competitors and I knew this.
I bought their stuff because they offer the most and cleanest samples and the best player.
So if they are going to drop or change that philosophy, I have no reason to stay there.

So please be not angry, if I'll open the 500th "Which string library?" thread...


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

To me, it all feels like "too little, too late", I gotta say.

It's not a bad library per se. But I wouldn't recommend it to anybody - especially not for the money they're asking for it. I think it simply has to little going for it, but instead comes with some glaring shortcomings. It overall just seems like some weird, massive experiment they got caught up in and perhaps it was too late go go back to the drawing board, or whatever.

I feel that the overall concept of the library is fundamentally flawed.

1) Dynamic layers - I think this is a huge one. I've never seen a library require as much humongous hard disk space while containing so little content. It's absurd. I think the many extra dynamic layers are only good for the shorts. It's great to have there. But all the other articulations IMO surprisingly don't benefit from it at all. It's actually quite contrary - the many layers make detailed dynamic sculpting only unnecessary fiddly, difficult and unintuitive. The whole idea of making this insanely dynamic string library and blowing it up in size so much because of that just seems like a massive misdetermination that ended up backfiring.

2) Scarcity of articulations - I'm quite shocked about this honestly. For all its decadent size and unwieldiness, this library comes with the most basic of articulations - nothing more. When you break it down, all you get for 600 - 1000 bucks and minimum freaking 250 GBs on your SSD is short, long, legato, trem, trills, pizz, (bartok) pizz. It's so far removed from what the competition is able to offer today, it's baffling. Not even more or less standard things like spiccato, detache, portamento, col legno, harmonics or sul ponticello are there - let alone more advanced, variable shorts options, adaptive patches, extended articulations etc.

What's particularily painful is the fact that VSL apparently thought it would be OK to cheap their way around several articulations, and that the users wouldn't mind. This seems very out of touch to me. VSL always had proper, good sounding sfz and fp patches in their libraries and those were very useful. It blows my mind that they thought it would be sufficient for their new flagship product to half-assedly tack a staccato sample onto some sustain and call this a sfz patch. If it was at least done well - but this patch in particular sounds terrible. The fp isn't much better either.

Creating makeshift "marcato" patches by layering a short note underneath a sustain is a boy scout method you resort to when for some reason all you can work with is a very basic set of samples. This has no place in an expensive, massive library that makes claims like "strings re-invented". I'm kind of shocked that they expected us to not care. It's actually kind of insulting.

To my ears, the super shorts are actually nothing else than the regular - admittedly quite attractive - shorts, but mangled in some ugly, unmusical way that playing them gives one a chalk on a blackboard type of experience. I'm just surprised at the lack of care - it's so out of character for VSL.

3) Weird legato editing - don't know what happened here. Although I don't find the legatos as catastrophically flawed as many other people do (although the fact that they do also tells you something), it's still clear to me that something kind of went wrong here and they just don't sound of feel on par with the competition today. Again, I can't shake off the feeling as if this was all meant very differently, but somewhere along the way, something went terribly wrong, and for some reason, the decision wasn't to reset, regroup and start over, but to plow through.

4) Patch overkill - Having all these different variants of the same articulation to me is more distracting that anything else. Soft sustain AND sustain with no vibrato, kind-of-middle of the road, uninteresting vibrato, lyrical vibrato ... the same for legato, sfz, fp ... jeez. Why not just make a sustain patch with variable attack depending on key velocity and vibrato crossfade from none over normal to "cheesy". Kinda like several other libraries have been doing it successfully for all this time before things got "re-invented" ... Where's the promised simplicity in all this? Yeah, we've got less articulations than ever, I guess that makes it kind of "simple", but on the other hand, the Synchron Player setups end up being complicated and confusing and there's all these CC's to be fiddled around with. That kind of didn't pan out.

This sounds as if I was bashing the library into the ground, but that's not my intent at all. It has some great things going for it. I think the depth of the sound really is something else I haven't heard in other libraries so far. The dynamics and power of the shorts are great, the pizz sounds beautiful. The basses sound impressive, and the long violins and violas patches have the ability to really shine and produce beautiful results. It just kind of pains to me to see the wasted potential. It could have turned out brilliantly, but there is such a lack of vision and, I guess, care, about this product and it's frustrating.

Of course, music can be made with this library, and I'm sure a lot of it can be made to sound even great. I'm still at least gonna try to do so and perhaps my perception will shift a tiny little bit. But honestly, if you're shopping for a string library, why not just grab good ol' Cinematic Strings 2 for 300 bucks instead and get it done?

I bought SyS based on my previous experience with Synchron Percussion, and VSL in general. But I gotta admit - all things considered, this ended up being a bust. I feel I didn't do myself a favor, but VSL far less so. I think they should really take a moment to evaluate the outcome of this troubled journey, reassess and learn from it - especially in regards to Synchron Woodwinds and Brass.


----------



## richhickey

Tfis said:


> no values are shown for articulations controlled with cc (important for setting up expression maps), editing controller curve is just guessing



I haven't moved to the new player yet, but from what I've seen of the controller curve mapping it seems strictly less powerful than the multi-range-based control of VI Pro. With ranges, it was easy to set triggers for min-val/middle-range/max-val, or low-range/middle-val/high-range, or split evenly every N (important when mapping to buttons that can generate ccs). There's no way to get these things with curves.

The continuous control over multiple dimensions idea seems a good fit for a modeled instrument, but that's not what this is. Switching articulations is discrete, not continuous, and many controllers are similarly discrete. If the only way to get discrete is keyswitch, this is a step backwards. I hope that's not the case.


----------



## novaburst

As an observer I generally find composers who do and are in love with there music do very little complaining they are doers of music not complainers of there tools.

I have seen VSL take a root that has upset many while on the other hand has pleased many. while I am not trying to rub salt into injury I am glad VSL stood by what they have done and changed nothing about the product, this to me proves they are true innovators, and leaders in the development world.

If they wanted to they had quite enough time to do many changes and please many or bend to the common rule but they stood there ground because they believed in what they are doing and have done proving they are leaders not followers.

Being an innovator means you are going to upset many because innovators take an uncommon direction that is not familiar to all.

Not all the time must the Developer be pulled to the costumer, there are times you need to be pulled towards and understand the developer.

Are VSL trying to make there product appeal to the world...No, are they trying to meet every ones expectations....No,

Do they make products for the mature and creative composer....Yes.

OT, HWS, Soaring Strings, Cinematic Studio Strings, 8Dio Century Strings, LASS, VSL SyS

What ever library you have you should be able to get the best out of them, If it does not do it for you move to your next library, But most of all make music.

Bless


----------



## richhickey

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> 1) Dynamic layers - I think this is a huge one. I've never seen a library require as much humongous hard disk space while containing so little content. It's absurd. I think the many extra dynamic layers are only good for the shorts. It's great to have there. But all the other articulations IMO surprisingly don't benefit from it at all. It's actually quite contrary - the many layers make detailed dynamic sculpting only unnecessary fiddly, difficult and unintuitive. The whole idea of making this insanely dynamic string library and blowing it up in size so much because of that just seems like a massive misdetermination that ended up backfiring.



You make many good points. But, for me, the dynamics (and raw sound) _make_ the library. I'm super tired of sampling libraries that make a jarring jump to ff (if they include it at all), but much more important, fail completely to represent <= p. So much of actual musical performances are (very) quiet and the 'turn the volume down' approach of sampling libraries abandons realism and expressivity in that range. So I'm happy to spend the disk space and memory for the dynamics.

That said, the awkwardness of soft/medium/loud ranges to manage voice counts is unwelcome, and seems not to be improved in the new player, which is a shame.

It seems they need still more technological improvement to enable the vision of this library:


some ability to have all dynamic layers without simultaneously playing them all when crossfading.
some sort of offline mic mixing akin to the way they handle time stretching - i.e. pre-rendering a mix so only a single set of samples is used vs one per mic position.

For me too then, Synchron is an investment that has not (yet) paid off. But I wish VSL the best in improving it.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

richhickey said:


> For me too then, Synchron is an investment that has not (yet) paid off. But I wish VSL the best in improving it.



Well yes, It's not a capsized ship - yet. I'm convinced that the library can still be polished and extended to state it deserves to be in. But there's a lot to be done and I have my doubts about VSL being interested in doing it. Hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Eptesicus

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> T
> 
> I bought SyS based on my previous experience with Synchron Percussion, and VSL in general. But I gotta admit - all things considered, this ended up being a bust. I feel I didn't do myself a favor, but VSL far less so. I think they should really take a moment to evaluate the outcome of this troubled journey, reassess and learn from it - especially in regards to Synchron Woodwinds and Brass.



Indeed.

But in essence, isn't their whole Synchron range kind of ruined if the main string library is a bust!?

I really think they need to go back and redo many of the things you pointed out for their Synchron range to be successful as a full orchestra.

I know people talk about money/ROI but ultimately they are torpedoing the whole Synchron Orchestra unless they go back and re-record. Ideally, redo the legato - they don't work and need looking at again. Also, actually record proper Marcato and sforzato etc.

I feel like they have lost all perspective as there are many competitors with products much better than this, much older, and for much less money. It is like they are living in a reality/market that only exists in their heads.

The other telling thing/real kicker to those that pre-ordered is that it has been on offer basically since its release and still is, for barely more than the early bird price....


*Just not to be totally critical, i love the sound of the soft sustains and the shorts. That is why it is such a shame - so much potential squandered.


----------



## muziksculp

Having Pre-Purchased the Full version of *Synchron Strings 1* last year. I'm now totally undecided if I should even bother installing this library, given the amount of negative feedback, and SSD space it requires. 

I really don't understand how VSL messed up, or should I say failed with such a crucial part of their Synchron Line of libraries. I'm also curious if they are really happy with the results.


----------



## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> But in essence, isn't their whole Synchron range kind of ruined if the main string library is a bust!?



That's what I think as well.

Would they bother re-developing it again from scratch ? I don't think so.


----------



## Eptesicus

muziksculp said:


> I'm also curious if they are really happy with the results.



They are (presumably) musicians, with ears, so the answer is no they are not. Or at least they shouldn't be.


----------



## Prockamanisc

Someone mentioned earlier that this could be treated as a supplemental volume- if we layer other VSL volumes along with this, it would sound complete.


----------



## muziksculp

Prockamanisc said:


> Someone mentioned earlier that this could be treated as a supplemental volume- if we layer other VSL volumes along with this, it would sound complete.



Not the way I view it, I think VSL would do us all, and themselves a big favor by Re-Developing Synchron Strings 1 from scratch, using a completely new methodology, recording engineers, mics, legato implementation, ..etc.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Hmm, I just noticed that VSL removed infamous legatos demo from SS demos page and added new one instead - very "sweetened" one...

Anyway, I'm playing a bit with parameteres that are available in edit tab and my favourite legato now is slur without the slur haha (with offset mode set to legato and Wave start offset dialed 0.5). Plus vibrato kicks in earlier! Do not take my word for that though, I'm playing with SP for too long by now (and starting to notice how easily it is to break preset by an accident).


----------



## muziksculp

We haven't heard much from _Guy Bacos_, and what he thinks about Synchron Strings 1, now that the Synchron Player is ready, he has not been active here lately, and hasn't posted any new audio demos for a while.


----------



## muziksculp

Piotrek K. said:


> Hmm, I just noticed that VSL removed infamous legatos demo


----------



## Leo

Maybe it has already been mentioned, I do not know but have you noticed the second violins are the same player like first violins?


----------



## SomeGuy

I bought my copy from JRR shop when it was released, and have patiently waited for the synchron player before really diving in, but I agree with most of what was said here that this simply isn't a professional product. Is it still possible to get my money back on a return? Anyone tried?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

IMO VSL's legatos have been odd since Dimension series. You can hear this new legato technique in Violin 2 & Cello 2 and now Synchron.


----------



## NoamL

I'm interested in the* dynamic range* of this library given the number of layers. Would someone be willing to do me a favor and record one note with the cellos going slowly from 1 to 127 on the modwheel? No need for any legato transitions, just one note. Soundcloud or Dropbox is fine. Thanks!


----------



## Piotrek K.

@NoamL Here are 3 notes, standard vibrato.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gv9vh8op7uubeu3/xfade_cellos.mp3?dl=0


----------



## Eptesicus

SomeGuy said:


> I bought my copy from JRR shop when it was released, and have patiently waited for the synchron player before really diving in, but I agree with most of what was said here that this simply isn't a professional product. Is it still possible to get my money back on a return? Anyone tried?



I doubt it, even though i think they should. The product simply is not the one that was advertised when they were taking pre-orders.

I don't think they will ever admit it is bad product, even though anyone with ears can hear it doesn't make the grade.

If i am honest, i would even take vls vouchers as a refund because i could at least then buy something i may find more useful. As it stands i can only see me using the shorts from these. I just don't think i can get the legato sounding realistic enough.

..and to think i bought it to replace Hollywood Strings which i was getting tired of. 7 years old and the legato and amount of articulations are loads better....


----------



## Salorom

It baffles me that VSL did not manage to capitalise on their long experience when they planned this library.
Only they could pull off Dimension Strings, which is such a joy to use and program.

Also I own the whole of the Synchron line and the rest in my opinion is stunning. The sound of FX Strings is so organic. It's only Synchron Strings I, really...


----------



## Tfis

I tried to set up a double bass patch. 
When shifting 1 octave up (i need the lower keys for switching) i get hanging notes on almost all long patches (sustain and legato).
Even the legati sound polyphonic (but set to mono).

Could someone try and confirm?

I resaved all mixing presets manually, because you can't use them with your own patches (you have to load preset, than re-save the mixing preset manually, then you can use it).
I created custom patches for all instruments. The next step would be creating expression maps. But I will wait, until the problems will be fixed.

Already too much time wasted...


----------



## muziksculp

So far VSL has not posted any new audio demos to impress us. I wonder why ? especially if they (VSL) think this is a first-class strings library. 

That's the least they can do to prove to us that Sync.Strings 1 with the new Syn.Player is a great sounding strings library (and all of the critics are wrong). 

Maybe they will be posting some new demos in the coming days. Let's see if this happens soon.


----------



## Eptesicus

muziksculp said:


> So far VSL has not posted any new audio demos to impress us. I wonder why ? especially if they (VSL) think this is a first-class strings library.
> 
> That's the least they can do to prove to us that Sync.Strings 1 with the new Syn.Player is a great sounding strings library (and all of the critics are wrong).
> 
> Maybe they will be posting some new demos in the coming days. Let's see if this happens soon.



This to me is also the real telling thing.

In fact, going back to the pre-order....i'm not sure they even new how the legato would sound or had it working when that first demo came out.

There was seemingly no legato lines in that and i think even the demo composers didn't have access to legato patches at first...

Personally i think they promised something without even listening to it or geting it to work first and then have realised after taking loads of pre-orders: "oh **** it sounds like balls"


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

What's really frustating for me is that since the first presentation of the Synchron Player at Westlake back in january (!), nothing changed in terms of functionality. I wonder what they have been doing all the time. There is actually no new feature. And I am still missing what they called "True Dynamics". It is mentioned in the product catalogue and was mentioned at Westlake, but has vanished.


----------



## Count_Fuzzball

I guess "Legato re-invented" will go alongside their promise of "Never pay for a sample twice"?


----------



## Eptesicus

One good thing is that the new player does seem to be excellent. Should have been released all at the same time though really, as the library is clearly made for the player and not vi pro.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Finally I understand the "re-invented legato" thing. Here is the whole story...

*VSL HQ, somewhere in Australia Austria*

VSL guy 1 (with Arnold Schwarzenegger accent): Guys, we've got awesome sound stage, let's record something
VSL guy 2: Strings?
VG 1: Bazookas! Nah, strings are cool...

*Few months later...*

VG 1: Ok people, we've got awesome shorts, pizzicatos, trills, tremolos and 30 second crescendos! Now legato.
Random VSL employee 1:Ok!
Random VSL employee 2:Ok!!
Random VSL employee 3:Ok!!!
VG 2: So how we do it?
VG 1: How we do what?
VG 2: How we do legato?
VG 1: You don't know?
VG 2: I forgot man, last years are kinda blurry...
VG 1: Damn man, why you didn't say that earlier?
VG 2: (man shrugs)
VG 1: Ok, so what do you suggest?
VG 2: You know, we basically invented the whole damn legato thing. Maybe we can just invent it again. You know, re-invent?
VG 1: Smart thinking, I like it, let's do this!

*... few more months later*

~a bit bumpy legato line playing~
VG 1: Man, this legato is passable!
VG 2: Yep, it certainly is... By the way, I also re-invented sforzando!

Credit roll


----------



## Tfis

Could someone give it a try:

load a legato patch and do a transpose (halftone or octave) via the edit page.

Do you have hanging notes?


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Piotrek K. said:


> Finally I understand the "re-invented legato" thing. Here is the whole story...
> 
> *VSL HQ, somewhere in Australia Austria*
> 
> VSL guy 1 (with Arnold Schwarzenegger accent): Guys, we've got awesome sound stage, let's record something
> VSL guy 2: Strings?
> VG 1: Bazookas! Nah, strings are cool...
> 
> *Few months later...*
> 
> VG 1: Ok people, we've got awesome shorts, pizzicatos, trills, tremolos and 30 second crescendos! Now legato.
> Random VSL employee 1:Ok!
> Random VSL employee 2:Ok!!
> Random VSL employee 3:Ok!!!
> VG 2: So how we do it?
> VG 1: How we do what?
> VG 2: How we do legato?
> VG 1: You don't know?
> VG 2: I forgot man, last years are kinda blurry...
> VG 1: Damn man, why you didn't say that earlier?
> VG 2: (man shrugs)
> VG 1: Ok, so what do you suggest?
> VG 2: You know, we basically invented the whole damn legato thing. Maybe we can just invent it again. You know, re-invent?
> VG 1: Smart thinking, I like it, let's do this!
> 
> *... few more months later*
> 
> ~a bit bumpy legato line playing~
> VG 1: Man, this legato is passable!
> VG 2: Yep, it certainly is... By the way, I also re-invented sforzando!
> 
> Credit roll



Made me laugh. Thanks.  

I have a different approach. If we all read between the lines correctly, we will see that re-invention must be compared to their previous libraries and not in general (= as we all expected).

So the re-invention is as follows:
1) more velocity layers
2) less keyswitching or patch switching, e. g. repetitions are built in

But that's not enough, for sure.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Tfis said:


> Could someone give it a try:
> 
> load a legato patch and do a transpose (halftone or octave) via the edit page.
> 
> Do you have hanging notes?



Yep, confirmed. Tried with different vibrato and legato patches.


----------



## Tfis

Thanks. I contacted support.


----------



## Sovereign

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I have a different approach. If we all read between the lines correctly, we will see that re-invention must be compared to their previous libraries and not in general (= as we all expected).


That would be a rather stupid business decision for them, to ignore the competition. In any case, the silence is deafening. They know damn well they screwed up here.


----------



## Tfis

Piotrek K. said:


> Yep, confirmed. Tried with different vibrato and legato patches.



Got an email: the bug is confirmed and will be fixed with (they hope so) the next player update.


----------



## Casiquire

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Made me laugh. Thanks.
> 
> I have a different approach. If we all read between the lines correctly, we will see that re-invention must be compared to their previous libraries and not in general (= as we all expected).



Of course that's what they meant. I kind of think it's silly to have expected something else, to be honest.


----------



## Eptesicus

Is there any way to up the voice count? Seems to be limited to 256 so if you play a long patch with more than 3 notes one drops out...


----------



## al_net77

Yes, in perform page you can set voices limit up to 1024


----------



## Eptesicus

al_net77 said:


> Yes, in perform page you can set voices limit up to 1024



Thanks. Is that per instance of it or across all instances?

Because if it is across all instances 1024 isn't going to be enough if playing chords using the whole section.


----------



## al_net77

I think that every istance is well separated, so 1024 should be a limit per instance.
And yes, this could be limiting for a single instace, too...


----------



## muziksculp

Hmmm.... Still not a single audio demo of Synchron Strings 1 produced with the new Synchron Player that can change my perception of this library. 

What's going on ? why no new VSL demos ? what's the verdict on this library after the Synchron Player has been released ? 

I decided to wait until I hear a single great sounding demo before bothering to install any part of this library.


----------



## C-Wave

muziksculp said:


> Hmmm.... Still not a single audio demo of Synchron Strings 1 produced with the new Synchron Player that can change my perception of this library.
> 
> What's going on ? why no new VSL demos ? what's the verdict on this library after the Synchron Player has been released ?
> 
> I decided to wait until I hear a single great sounding demo before bothering to install any part of this library.


Eh..... you haven’t installed it yet? even when everything is released?! wow.. hmmm. So you’re saying that if they don’t release a demo you won’t install it? ever?


----------



## Piotrek K.

@muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp

No.. *I won't do it*, until I hear some amazing demos


----------



## Eptesicus

I have done a brief mock up of the start of the string bit of Blue Planet 2 (ie the promo video VSL used) with both Synchron using the player and Soaring Strings (just from ear so the basic structure of it from what i can make out).

This is exactly the same parts/midi apart from different expression/velocity xfade which i tailored to each library.

Soaring:
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/soaring-blue-planet-mp3.14257/][/AUDIOPLUS]

Synchron:
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-blue-planet-mp3.14258/][/AUDIOPLUS]

I don't think Synchron sounds too bad in all honesty. I would say it took more editing to get Synchron close to decent than it did with Soaring though.

I think Soaring's celli cope better with the faster arpeggio bit than Synchron. None of the legato modes really gave me what soaring gives you there.

Also, the lower register of the violas and violins in Soaring are simply gorgeous and sound better than Synchron's in my opinion.

Synchron maybe sounds a bit richer and fuller. That is likely down to the multiple mics though and larger section sizes.

Another thing to note is that Synchron is pretty resource hungry if you load the full dynamics with velocity and vibrato cross fade with 4 mics. Obviously much, much more so than Soaring.

If i put more time/effort into it i could probably get better results with both libraries. There is probably more to get out of Synchron though due to the different options in terms of vibrato/dynamics.


----------



## Vik

Such tests are always interesting to listen to, thanks. But in order to make an even more fair comparison, it could possibly be better with a more soaring (more vibrato) version of Synchron Strings?


----------



## Eptesicus

Vik said:


> Such tests are always interesting to listen to, thanks. But in order to make an even more fair comparison, it could possibly be better with a more soaring (more vibrato) version of Synchron Strings?



That is as soaring as it gets in the current Synchron. That is using the lyrical vibrato (with cross fade from non to add a bit more expression)


----------



## Cartoon

muziksculp said:


> No.. *I won't do it*, until I hear some amazing demos



I seems like you are waiting your whole life :D


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

@Eptesicus
Great example, but I find the Soaring version better. In the last days I tried all different options inside Synchron Player and VI Pro to manipulate the legato, but it's frustrating. I expect from a new high-end library to be great out-of-the-box and don't spend much time editing.

Could you provide the midi file for this short cue? That would be great.


----------



## eli0s

Eptesicus said:


> I have done a brief mock up of the start of the string bit of Blue Planet 2 (ie the promo video VSL used) with both Synchron using the player and Soaring Strings (just from ear so the basic structure of it from what i can make out).
> 
> This is exactly the same parts/midi apart from different expression/velocity xfade which i tailored to each library.
> 
> Soaring:
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/soaring-blue-planet-mp3.14257/][/AUDIOPLUS]
> 
> Synchron:
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/synchron-blue-planet-mp3.14258/][/AUDIOPLUS]
> 
> I don't think Synchron sounds too bad in all honesty. I would say it took more editing to get Synchron close to decent than it did with Soaring though.
> 
> I think Soaring's celli cope better with the faster arpeggio bit than Synchron. None of the legato modes really gave me what soaring gives you there.
> 
> Also, the lower register of the violas and violins in Soaring are simply gorgeous and sound better than Synchron's in my opinion.
> 
> Synchron maybe sounds a bit richer and fuller. That is likely down to the multiple mics though and larger section sizes.
> 
> Another thing to note is that Synchron is pretty resource hungry if you load the full dynamics with velocity and vibrato cross fade with 4 mics. Obviously much, much more so than Soaring.
> 
> If i put more time/effort into it i could probably get better results with both libraries. There is probably more to get out of Synchron though due to the different options in terms of vibrato/dynamics.


Wow! I am getting caught by surprise again with Soaring's Strings sound AND legato functionality! The Cellos in the arpeggiated part sound amazing!
+1 sharing the midi file (I'm interested for the Soaring's Strings take), I would like to see how CSS would handle the arpeggios.

SyS take isn't that good (not blaming you), the sound is lacking expression and the notes are disconnected. To my ears there aren't any legato interval samples, just some smudgy overlap between adjacent notes. Also, they lack definition (the Cello arpegggios are a far cry from SS's in this example), and the strings are sounding muddy overall. Some EQ on the lower frequencies might help on that part.

Anyway, great job posting these two examples!!!


----------



## Eptesicus

Yeh, Soaring is very impressive, especially for fast/arpeggiated lines.

However, obviously Soaring is lacking, in that you always have that baked in very expressive and intense vibrato. Ideally, i would have liked the opportunity to vibrato crossfade with Soaring for this piece as well.

Would love it if Musical Sampling did a more detailed string library taking that legato forward into a multi mic, multi articulation library with different levels of vibrato and performance styles.

Synchron is tricky. It has potential i think, but ultimately i feel they need to redo the legato transitions, and maybe add another more expressive vibrato layer. Using vibrato and velocity cross fade does help in adding some expression, but the transitions are so devoid of life and quiet that it makes them almost imperceivable, and because of that, you lose any chance of making a piece sound like a performance.

I am out all day today, but will try to upload the midi file later when i get home.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Yeah, I really don't like Synchron version of that theme. It's much less convincing and... well, synthy. I really hate the fact that I'm using this word to describe 250GB library with 1000000 of samples in 2018. Especially higher strings at 0:11. "Soaring" are beauties during the same moment...

And I just don't understand why VSL decided to sample two vibrato types instead of two vibrato intensities. It's just odd. I can only imagine someone saying - look how awesome the vibrato changes from this wave to this wave.

Just fyi, just finished my first piece with SS + SP. Upbeat music without ambitions to bring you catharsis. Dedicated to William  And I'm not sure if this is just me, but it seems that Sycnchron Player is more demanding on ram and CPU than combo VE + VI. Can't compare it anymore, because old synchrons are long gone from my drive, so it's just a feeling.



Btw, do you think that strings sound "synthy" in here? I'm asking because I feel that they sound kinda good, but I don't know if it is just because I spent with this piece much more time than 3:10 and I'm just biased?


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Sadly, I still have not heard any Synchron Strings 1 demo that impressed me.

Do you think this library is just one big failure for VSL ?

If not, please prove it with a demo.

@Guy Bacos . Have you had some time to work with Synchron Strings 1 and the New Synchron Strings Player ? If Yes, do you have any new demos to contribute here that might change my, and many others impression of this library, by proving to us that this is a top of the line Strings Library, and it's all a matter of using it properly ? 

I'm a bit curious why VSL has not posted any new audio demos for this library, done with Synchron Strings Player ?

So, I am sticking to my decision to Not Install this library until I change my perception about it. So far, I think it is a Big Failure for VSL. and a waste of my $$$ , Unless I'm proven wrong. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## eli0s

muziksculp said:


> So, I am sticking to my decision to Not Install this library until I change my perception about it. So far, I think it is a Big Failure for VSL. and a waste of my $$$ , Unless I'm proven wrong.


I don't understand your persistence on this. Since you've already bought the library, you have nothing to loose if you try out by your self. You would have had very much concluded on your own if you like it by now, and if it can fit to your workflow, and these would have been safe conclusions, because it doesn't matter if Guy Bacos or anyone else provide you a nice demo, there are people that can produce amazing results with almost anything. What's important is what * can you create* with this library! And the best way to really know is to roll up your sleeves and try it out!!!


----------



## muziksculp

eli0s said:


> I don't understand your persistence on this. Since you've already bought the library, you have nothing to loose if you try out by your self. You would have had very much concluded on your own if you like it by now, and if it can fit to your workflow, and these would have been safe conclusions, because it doesn't matter if Guy Bacos or anyone else provide you a nice demo, there are people that can produce amazing results with almost anything. What's important is what * can you create* with this library! And the best way to really know is to roll up your sleeves and try it out!!!



I totally understand your point, and it is valid, but in this case, I am sticking to my decision to wait until I hear a single great sounding demo, before installing it. as I said, I really can't believe there is not a single demo that impressed me so far. So, it's not looking good, and nothing is encouraging me to waste my time installing this library (yet).


----------



## muziksculp

@eli0s ,

What do you think about it so far ? are you very happy with what it offers, and how it sounds ?


----------



## klavaus

@muziksculp 

you got nothing else to do?


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> I am sticking to my decision to wait until I hear a single great sounding demo, before installing it. as I said, I really can't believe there is not a single demo that impressed me so far. So, it's not looking good, and nothing is encouraging me to waste my time installing this library (yet).



Well I do think the demos on the VSL Web site from @Guy Bacos and others are very good and the String really sound nice on there demos,

@muziksculp if you don't feel those demos are good, I really believe its time for you to move on perhaps sell the product on and start thinking of another library maybe just stay away from VSL,

Firstly I believe SyS is misunderstood, you do need to put some effort into it, and that want suit people because people love that out of the box glory, or the instant gratification and if that is not there then the library is completely condemned.

I think the condemnation of this library on this thread has put a lot of people off, and has giving people a negative view on the product to the point even when a great demo is done you will automatically say crap, and thats what negative talk does, it tends to blind people or in this case makes them death to the beauty of the library.

If you talk negative shite all the time about a very good product eventually your conscience want believe anything good about it.

And in this case I believe this craft of negativity has been set in stone.

So do yourself a favour and forget the library existed and sell it and move on find something every one is saying good things about.

I still say they are my go to and cant do with out them.


----------



## muziksculp

novaburst said:


> still say they are my go to and cant do with out them.



That's a big statement, especially for a strings library I haven't been impressed by its demos so far.

I really don't think the demos posted by VSL of Synchron Strings 1 are impressive, or offer anything special to my ears, they are OK, that's about it. Maybe I'm expecting much better, but that's just me. Given the size, and specs of this library, it doesn't measure up to my expectations. That's as simple as I can put it.

So, to make you happy, I won't bother complaining anymore, maybe I will hear an amazing Synchron Strings 1 demo one of these days, and change my mind. Until that happens, I'm not going to bother discussing this library any further, or give any further opinions about it, or bother installing it, or selling it. 

I requested more than once from VSL on their forum to post new demos, but so far.. They have not posted any new audio demos that were produced via Synchron Strings 1 Player. (which imho. is not a good sign).

So... Enjoy using Synchron Strings 1, I'm glad you are very happy with what it offers.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Guy Bacos

Sorry, time was scarce last couple of months, have been focussing on a video project. I'll need to read more of the thread.


----------



## muziksculp

Guy Bacos said:


> Sorry, time was scarce last couple of months, have been focussing on a video project. I'll need to read more of the thread.



Hello Guy,

Welcome back, and it's very nice to see you back on this thread.  

I would be delighted to hear some feedback from you regarding Synchron Strings 1 and the New Synchron 1 Player, I don't know if you had any time to work with the Player lately, if you did, then what is your professional opinion about this library, its strengths, weaknesses, ...etc. 

I have been Requesting/begging VSL to post some new Audio Demos of Synchron Strings 1 produced using the new Synchron Player, but so far they have not posted any new demos. Which I'm hoping will sound better, and more realistic. The lack of new better audio demos is not helping much. I feel non of the current posted demos by users of Synchron Strings 1 with Synchron Player are flattering, or make me smile. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> That's a big statement, especially for a strings library I haven't been impressed by its demos so far.



I don't think it's a big statement it's my statement, it's what I think



muziksculp said:


> really don't think the demos posted by VSL of Synchron Strings 1 are impressive, or offer anything special to my ears, they are OK, that's about it.



Strings don't make a great composer, I always say the writing is what grabs the attention, not the library it self, so in fact I have heard live orchestra that really sounds bad because of the way it was written, also not applying notes correctly I have heard some really not so good demo from CSS
So hearing what users do should not be the foundation of weather we buy or not or use or not. 

If you were buying a car and wanted to see how it drives would you ask someone to drive it and watch and then because they did not driveit like Hamilton would you just walk away and not even test it yourself. 



muziksculp said:


> So, to make you happy, I won't bother complaining anymore, maybe I



I was not sad because the challang you put out on SyS, I just believe there has been a lot of negative statements and don't believe you and many others can get over it. 
I just gave my advice in view of the situation on this thread. 

I feel the negative statements have coursed a back lash against the library and the momentum is quite strong, so you using it with all what has been said, it's just set you up for failure with the strings and it will be something very difficult to overcome especially if you have not tested it yourself 



muziksculp said:


> Given the size, and specs of this library, it doesn't measure up to my expectations. That's as simple as I can put it.



The SyS lack in articulations but using them I don't find myself searching around for extra. 

SyS have a very solid feeling about them they have a lot of density compared to other library's, the size of the library could have a lot to do with that, even when played against orhcestral strings, orchestral strings feels light in comparison, 
But the density is one of the things I love about SyS



muziksculp said:


> glad you are very happy with what it offers.



At the end of the day it's not about me and what I feel about the product its about you and aways should be about you and how you feel about it weather negative or positive 

novaburst


----------



## novaburst

Anyway @muziksculp your supposed to give a big prize when you announce a challenge so maybe this is why no one is taking up the offer


----------



## eli0s

muziksculp said:


> @eli0s ,
> What do you think about it so far ? are you very happy with what it offers, and how it sounds ?



You misunderstood me, I don't own the library, my comments and critique so far are based purely on what I hear in the demos. So, we are both finding the library problematic. The difference is that since I didn't pre-oder the library I can only judge from the demos and the examples provided by owners of the library. You, however, already made the purchase and you don't have anything to loose by trying the library. Sure, you'll have to invest some time (witch you already do by waiting on the forums for someone to provide you a demo that you like), and disk space (but you can delete the library anytime you want).

Look, I agree that the library is a far cry from what we thought it will be based on the advertising (Strings Re-invented, Performance Legato Re-Invented). Personally I don't even like the sound, it's too thin and sterile (the sustains). But *others do like* the sound, so this isn't objective. The legatos are nonexistent in all the demos and this is probably the worst no-no for me.

There are good things in the library though. The shorts are very nice (Staccatos and Pizzicatos). The bases are sounding good and huge. I am sure that you will find more positive things *if you try* the library. If you don't, well, you just lose your money, don't you?


----------



## enyawg

I quickly jammed out a few movements tonight after installing VSL’s Synchron Strings I, essentially straight out of the box.

https://gardnertechnologies.com/music/synchron-MI.wav
https://gardnertechnologies.com/music/synchron-MII.wav
https://gardnertechnologies.com/music/synchron-MIII.wav
https://gardnertechnologies.com/music/synchron-MIV.wav


----------



## muziksculp

enyawg said:


> I quickly jammed out a few movements tonight after installing VSL’s Synchron Strings I, essentially straight out of the box.
> 
> https://gardnertechnologies.com/music/synchron-MI.aif
> https://gardnertechnologies.com/music/synchron-MII.aif
> https://gardnertechnologies.com/music/synchron-MIII.aif
> https://gardnertechnologies.com/music/synchron-MIV.aif



Thanks for the demos.


----------



## enyawg

muziksculp said:


> Any chance you can upload them to Soundcloud ?
> 
> and , .aif files are for Mac only, I'm on PC.


My soundcloud's full... try right mouse click then, "Open URL" see if that works.


----------



## muziksculp

enyawg said:


> My soundcloud's full... try right mouse click then, "Open URL" see if that works.



No Problem, It's playing via iTunes on Windows.


----------



## Casiquire

The sound I'm hearing is a bit too clean and pristine, almost like autotuned strings. This is the standard VSL way which is why I prefer Dimension Strings which I usually dirty up a bit and detune, making an effort to do so only where I think a real string player would likely mess it up. I also still don't hear much of the legato transitions. I wonder if the close mics result in a dry sound that exposes the transitions more and if it's just the ambiance covering those moments.


----------



## Eptesicus

Casiquire said:


> The sound I'm hearing is a bit too clean and pristine, almost like autotuned strings. This is the standard VSL way which is why I prefer Dimension Strings which I usually dirty up a bit and detune, making an effort to do so only where I think a real string player would likely mess it up. I also still don't hear much of the legato transitions. I wonder if the close mics result in a dry sound that exposes the transitions more and if it's just the ambiance covering those moments.



No, they are broken and edited poorly. The legato will not sound good until they Re record and re edit it all.


----------



## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> No, they are broken and edited poorly. The legato will not sound good until they Re record and re edit it all.



Which sadly is not going to happen.


----------



## Salorom

VSL, please wake up. I own everything Synchron, the SS1 are so sub-par. Make it right, for the sake of the whole Synchron line.


----------



## muziksculp

Salorom said:


> VSL, please wake up. I own everything Synchron, the SS1 are so sub-par. Make it right, for the sake of the whole Synchron line.



Maybe a petition from unhappy owners would be a first step to make them seriously re-do the legatos ?


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> Which sadly is not going to happen.


They must enjoy being a glutton for punishment. They should simply accept they made a mistake and correct it, they even own the freakin' studio they record in.


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> Maybe a petition from unhappy owners would be a first step to make them seriously re-do the legatos ?


Unfortunately they seem unmovable, their silence and refusal to be honest is very telling. I suppose they believe the storm will pass but in the end it will affect buyers' decisions to invest in further Synchron Orchestra products.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> their silence and refusal to be honest



I hope users voice their dissatisfaction, and concern regarding the Legatos on the VSL forum. 

I just posted a new topic on the VSL Synchron Forum Section asking how Synchron Strings 1 users like the Legatos.


----------



## Salorom

It’s not only the legato, the sustains sound thin and lifeless, the sforzando articulation is almost a scam, there is no portamento. And who needs a 12s (shortest) to 30s (longest) crescendo/diminuendo? It doesn’t make any sense.

Synchron Percussion, FX Strings and Yamaha CFX are gorgeous and a joy to work with, which begs the question: why were the strings released as is? This is not the VSL I know.


----------



## muziksculp

Salorom said:


> It’s not only the legato, the sustains sound thin and lifeless, the sforzando articulation is almost a scam, there is no portamento. And who needs a 12s (shortest) to 30s (longest) crescendo/diminuendo? It doesn’t make any sense.



Have you posted your dissatisfaction about this on the VSL Forum ?


----------



## muziksculp

Haha... I just got the first nasty/rude reply on the VSL forums regarding how users like the Legatos.

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/m274458-Synchron-Strings-1--Legatos--Your-Thoughts#post274458


----------



## N.Caffrey

I've never heard of someone buying a library and not even trying it because demos are not convincing. 
It's absurd a library that big has only got few articulations but from what I heard at least the short notes sound really good, so if you're not selling it (I wonder who would buy it though) why not give it a spin?


----------



## muziksculp

Given that so far I haven't heard a single audio demo, that showed a great legato example, even the vibrato doesn't sound musical to my ears, does this mean the problem is related to the user/s not using this library properly ? maybe, but (I doubt it). 

I think the problem is built-into the library, otherwise, I would have heard at least one demo track that would impress me. But that has not happened. Just simple logical deduction. 

So.. OK, I will go ahead and install the library, and try to evaluate it myself, if it doesn't measure up to my expectations, I will simply delete it. No drama needed. I have many other options for Strings that I'm very happy with. If it does measure up to my expectations, and I'm impressed by what it is able to deliver, I will let you know by posting on this thread. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Sovereign

omiroad said:


> Seems like a reasonable response to me:


The reasonableness of his response ended when he answered "yes".


----------



## muziksculp

N.Caffrey said:


> I've never heard of someone buying a library and not even trying it because demos are not convincing.
> It's absurd a library that big has only got few articulations but from what I heard at least the short notes sound really good, so if you're not selling it (I wonder who would buy it though) why not give it a spin?



Are you using the library ? if Yes, what are your thoughts ?


Sovereign said:


> The reasonableness of his response ended when he answered "yes".


----------



## muziksculp

omiroad said:


> Seems like a reasonable response to me:



Are you using VSL Synchron Strings 1 ? If Yes, what are your thoughts about the Legatos, and if you like them, can you give us a demo to prove they are great/amazing ?


----------



## Dear Villain

Sovereign said:


> The reasonableness of his response ended when he answered "yes".



Yes, and an individual who previously promised to stop talking about Synchron, and who continues to beat a dead horse to death in spite of the many individuals who have come to the same conclusion as me, in terms of suggesting he try them himself and form his opinion; and who then copies my response to another forum instead of telling me he found my response rude on the original forum to which it was posted; yes, my response was reasonable. Thanks, and have a great day!


----------



## Sovereign

Dear Villain said:


> Yes, and an individual who previously promised to stop talking about Synchron, and who continues to beat a dead horse to death in spite of the many individuals who have come to the same conclusion as me, in terms of suggesting he try them himself and form his opinion; and who then copies my response to another forum instead of telling me he found my response rude on the original forum to which it was posted; yes, my response was reasonable. Thanks, and have a great day!


I'm not talking about the part of him trying it out himself, which is a good thing. I'm talking about the part you wrote claiming the legato is "great sounding, smooth, realistic". It's not. Thanks and have a great day too.


----------



## muziksculp

Dear Villain said:


> Yes, and an individual who previously promised to stop talking about Synchron, and who continues to beat a dead horse to death in spite of the many individuals who have come to the same conclusion as me, in terms of suggesting he try them himself and form his opinion; and who then copies my response to another forum instead of telling me he found my response rude on the original forum to which it was posted; yes, my response was reasonable. Thanks, and have a great day!



If you think Synchron Strings have great sounding Legatos, please delight us. I'm all EARS )))


----------



## Dear Villain

muziksculp said:


> If you think Synchron Strings have great sounding Legatos, please delight us. I'm all EARS )))


----------



## muziksculp

omiroad said:


> Why don't you try it yourself if you've bought it? Don't be lazy.



Fair, I as I said a few posts up, that I will be installing the library, and will test it out, and provide my feedback on this thread. 

Why are you not answering my question ? How do you like Synchron Strings 1 especially the Legatos (If you have this library installed).


----------



## synergy543

muziksculp said:


> How do you like Synchron Strings 1 especially the Legatos


I think one of the issues is that you have to really know how to make your own presets (which isn't hard, its just a matter of knowing how). Most of what I hear is quite lacking in expression simply because it wasn't programmed into the preset by the user. VSL gives you all of the tools, but the user/player has to put the pieces together. Its like a fishing pole, tackle and bait set. The fish doesn't just pop out of the water, you have to put the pole together, put on some line, and attach a little bait and then dip it into the water. Its not too different with a sample library. Its not like you just a press a key on Patch 1 of the Korg M1 and go "WOW!".
This is just a little patch I made using the ALL strings, and playing live moving only the mod wheel. The mod wheel switches between non-vibrato and lyrical vibrato and volume (expression). Of course, you could add other CCs as well too if you go back and edit the MIDI data so each is independently dynamic (I'm just lazy). However, even adding just a little bit of expression can make a difference.

[EDIT] - I realized I didn't even turn on vel xfade. You can get a whole additional level of expression by adding dynamic xfade. Maybe I'll make another ex.

That said, I think the library really could benefit by having some additional expressive articulations such as a heavier vibrato, some portamento, some expressive swells, etc.
Maybe VSL will add some bonus articulations? Or Synchron Strings II with additional expressive patches?


----------



## muziksculp

@synergy543 ,

Thanks for the feedback. 

I can relate to what you are saying here, this is nothing new, it was also the case when using VI-Pro2, you had to customize it to your needs, and it offered a lot of flexibility, performance, and control options. 

What I'm not too fond of here is the actual sound of the Strings. I mean their character, timbre, ..etc. They just don't have that Air, and Sweetness that I would expect to hear when a professional string ensemble is playing in a great sounding hall, in this case, I don't even hear the Synchron Hall's character in the performance, it sounds quite dry, and everything sounds flat. (Can't find the perfect word to describe it), but I think lifeless is another term I could use. 

Maybe this is due to not using all the Mic options, I don't find the Mix Mic option sounding that great from the video demos I heard so far. 

Anyways.. I'm on my way to experience Synchron Strings hands-on in my studio, and that is the best way for me to judge it, given I get to utilize all tools the new Player offers, and customize the patches to my taste. 

I might have some questions about the Synchron Player once I get things moving forward, I will post them here, so we can help each other make the best out of this library. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

IMO the SFX strings are some of the best sampling I've ever played with and the new synchron player is fantastic and easy to use! It's made me very interested in the Synchron line

The fake artics are a massive downer though


----------



## novaburst

synergy543 said:


> think one of the issues is that you have to really know how to make your own presets (which isn't hard, its just a matter of knowing how). Most of what I hear is quite lacking in expression simply because it wasn't programmed into the preset by the user. VSL gives you all of the tools, but the user/player has to put the pieces



With this a 100% it means living with the library and learning how it works, not just pressing the note and hope for the best


----------



## HBen

muziksculp said:


> Maybe a petition from unhappy owners would be a first step to make them seriously re-do the legatos ?



If you launch the petition on the VSL forum, I will be happy to join you. I've purchased the full library of SyS 1, and I am unhappy with synthy legato sounds. What a waste of my money.


----------



## HBen

muziksculp said:


> @synergy543 ,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I can relate to what you are saying here, this is nothing new, it was also the case when using VI-Pro2, you had to customize it to your needs, and it offered a lot of flexibility, performance, and control options.
> 
> What I'm not too fond of here is the actual sound of the Strings. I mean their character, timbre, ..etc. They just don't have that Air, and Sweetness that I would expect to hear when a professional string ensemble is playing in a great sounding hall, in this case, I don't even hear the Synchron Hall's character in the performance, it sounds quite dry, and everything sounds flat. (Can't find the perfect word to describe it), but I think lifeless is another term I could use.
> 
> Maybe this is due to not using all the Mic options, I don't find the Mix Mic option sounding that great from the video demos I heard so far.
> 
> Anyways.. I'm on my way to experience Synchron Strings hands-on in my studio, and that is the best way for me to judge it, given I get to utilize all tools the new Player offers, and customize the patches to my taste.
> 
> I might have some questions about the Synchron Player once I get things moving forward, I will post them here, so we can help each other make the best out of this library.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp




I replied your post on VSL forum. Indeed, we should united together to voice our attitude towards this product.


----------



## Casiquire

Eptesicus said:


> No, they are broken and edited poorly. The legato will not sound good until they Re record and re edit it all.



That is shocking to read


----------



## muziksculp

Salorom said:


> It’s not only the legato, the sustains sound thin and lifeless, the sforzando articulation is almost a scam, there is no portamento. And who needs a 12s (shortest) to 30s (longest) crescendo/diminuendo? It doesn’t make any sense.



That's not encouraging feedback.

Have you voiced your dissatisfaction with Synch-Strings 1 on the VSL Forum, to let VSL know how you feel about this library ?


----------



## Simon Ravn

Dear Villain said:


>




Is that a joke? It sounds unconvincing in every way.


----------



## Simon Ravn

omiroad said:


> Why don't you try it yourself if you've bought it? Don't be lazy.
> 
> 
> The point of his post was that while _he_ thinks the answer is yes, he wants muziksculp to form his own opinion about it. It doesn't get more reasonable than that on the internet.



The interesting thing is that NO ONE has been able to produce anything that has made anyone on this forum full of very knowledgable, geeky, criticial ears go "wow" or just "that actually sounds pretty good". All we hear is "Yes, it sounds amazing, now go form your own opinion" - with no examples from those posters ever backing up their statements. So I guess that is quite telling; it seems like they are just avidly defending the library, knowing it isn't working well.

So sadly, I don't think the library is up to it. That is my own opinion as well. Not just the legatos, but also the sound and the lack of life in the playing. It might be good for some things, but as a general, playable, "get as realistic as possible" string library it falls flat on its face I am afraid.

EDIT: And for anyone who says that no other library can do better (or good) legato than VSL Synchron, look no further than Cinematic Studio Strings which in my opinion has a beautiful tone (albeit it can actually be a bit too heavy on vibrato, ironically), but also is EXTREMELY playable out of the box with great legato. There are other libraries that are way more convincing than Synchron as well but I think CSS has the most consistent and nice, well-glued legato.

The Synchron legato seems almost non-existent (except for the slur patches) to the point where leaving out the transition samples completely, would probably have given a better sounding result.


----------



## novaburst

Simon Ravn said:


> but as a general, playable, "get as realistic as possible" string library it falls flat on its face I am afraid.



While making such bold statements, we both know that the statement is untrue at least until you try it your self, there is such a thing as skill level, and while I have heard some great muck ups with SyS the users tend to stay away from melody legato lines, and am not quite sure why, because the library is more than capable of doing it.

There has also been tons of negative statements, so weather one puts out a mockup good or great it will automatically get slammed as rubbish to keep up the negativety.

So it's a lose lose situation simply becuase of the tons of negatively that is on top of the user doing the muck up


----------



## Simon Ravn

novaburst said:


> While making such bold statements, we both know that the statement is untrue at least until you try it your self, there is such a thing as skill level, and while I have heard some great muck ups with SyS the users tend to stay away from melody legato lines, and am not quite sure why, because the library is more than capable of doing it.



How do you know it is capable of doing it if there is nothing to show? Why haven't you shown it then?

I personally would not choose SyS as my 1st, 2nd or 3rd library when doing (most types) of film score. And for something "epic" in a contemporary Hollywood way, forget it. It simply doesn't play or sound neither good enough or real enough to do that, so I have put it in the bag of stuff that I eventually want to pick up if I think it could be the right library for it. But for most things I will unfortunately never choose it.

I remember when VSL's original string library came out. You could use that for layering, since the legato intervals were so good and revolutionary at the time, that it could be used to glue together non-legato libraries. Ironically, with SyS I could perhaps choose it to add some of its clarity to better sounding legato-libraries. I haven't tried that yet so I don't know if it would work or just clutter things up.


----------



## Simon Ravn

novaburst said:


> There has also been tons of negative statements, so weather one puts out a mockup good or great it will automatically get slammed as rubbish to keep up the negativety.
> 
> So it's a lose lose situation simply becuase of the tons of negatively that is on top of the user doing the muck up



The negativity is here for a reason. If the library was indeed great, it wouldn't carry that negative vibe. You can't seriously mean that people who bought the library and talk bad about it are just following a trend. Of course we bought it, hoping it would be good. Everything else is just excuses.


----------



## novaburst

Simon Ravn said:


> I personally would not choose SyS as my 1st, 2nd or 3rd library when doing (most types) of film score. And for something "epic" in a contemporary Hollywood way, forget it. It simply doesn't play or sound neither good enough or real enough to do that, so I have put it in the bag of stuff that I eventually want to pick up if



Firstly sorry for spoiling your victory dance.
Secondly if you approach SyS like you do with other library's you have failed already and it will never work for you

Lastly who would want to put out a demo in the face of all this negatively.

The library is misunderstood but if the negative statements stop maybe that will encourage them to come and do some demo's


----------



## Salorom

novaburst said:


> Firstly sorry for spoiling your victory dance.
> Secondly if you approach SyS like you do with other library's you have failed already and it will never work for you
> 
> Lastly who would want to put out a demo in the face of all this negatively.
> 
> The library is misunderstood but if the negative statements stop maybe that will encourage them to come and do some demo's



Do share something, I want to like this library very much. I immediately managed satisfying legato transitions with Dimension Strings but never came close with SS1.

I also find the mid mics reedy rather than precise. Bypassing them helps a bit, I couldn't find a way to EQ them to taste.


----------



## Simon Ravn

novaburst said:


> Firstly sorry for spoiling your victory dance.
> Secondly if you approach SyS like you do with other library's you have failed already and it will never work for you



I really don't think I need you to tell me how to approach a string library, thank you...



> Lastly who would want to put out a demo in the face of all this negatively.



This is EXCACTLY what you would do: Put out a demo to prove that we are all wrong.

It's borderline hillarious when a bunch of people are stating over and over again how good this library is without having anything to show.


----------



## Sovereign

Simon Ravn said:


> I really don't think I need you to tell me how to approach a string library, thank you...


I keep reading that on the VSL forum too from a selected few, "it sounds bad because you don't know how to use the library yet" or some such. It is truly hilarious, as if Synchron is soooo different from any library which has come come before it that it requires additional skills which, remarkably, only its supporters supposedly claim to have. To me it reads like a poor excuse for a library which does not deliver.


----------



## Dear Villain

Simon Ravn said:


> Is that a joke? It sounds unconvincing in every way.



Thanks, Simon Ravn. Yes, my piece is a joke. Thank you for offering your incredibly kind, detailed assessment. The rest of those fools that praised it when I previously posted it, should be ashamed of themselves. They gave me a false sense of hope that I was good, and now you've shown me how crappy I really am. 

I'll go shoot myself now. 

Cheers!
Dave


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> Synchron is soooo different from any library which has come come before it that it requires additional skills which, remarkably, only its supporters supposedly claim to have.



@Sovereign can you tell me of any other string library that is so huge,

Unfortunately to raise your skill level is what is required to use this library if you can't then put the library down, it's ashame but from my conclusion it's the unfortunate truth. 

But if anything if I may say it is the library's biggest issue, because we all live in a plug and play world and nobody wants to use or put effort into raising there skill level, it's all about out of the box so to speak

So in this aspect many fall over or fall on the sword, and start to criticism because hay who wants to put so much effort into a library so let's all just slam it well it is the simple option rather than use you skill


----------



## eli0s

Dear Villain said:


> Thanks, Simon Ravn. Yes, my piece is a joke. Thank you for offering your incredibly kind, detailed assessment. The rest of those fools that praised it when I previously posted it, should be ashamed of themselves. They gave me a false sense of hope that I was good, and now you've shown me how crappy I really am.
> 
> I'll go shoot myself now.
> 
> Cheers!
> Dave


Come on, please don't be offended! I don't believe the comment was to be taken literally, I think that he is overacting a bit on the strings part of it.

As a composition I find it great! I really liked your orchestration also! I think that the woodwind writing excel in the piece! The mixing could be improved, but this is the most difficult part in virtual orchestras I believe! I'm never happy with my mixes either.

I would have wanted the strings to be more exposed, I can't draw any safe conclusions as an example for legatos in SyS in this mix. However, SyS does sound better in the mix on this piece than some other examples so far.

Anyway, be well and thank you for your contribution!

Elias


----------



## Simon Ravn

Dear Villain said:


> Thanks, Simon Ravn. Yes, my piece is a joke. Thank you for offering your incredibly kind, detailed assessment. The rest of those fools that praised it when I previously posted it, should be ashamed of themselves. They gave me a false sense of hope that I was good, and now you've shown me how crappy I really am.
> 
> I'll go shoot myself now.
> 
> Cheers!
> Dave



Haha stop overreacting. The piece is fine but if it was supposed to showcase Synchron Strings... That doesn't bode too well. Yes, I am being very frank.


----------



## Simon Ravn

novaburst said:


> @Sovereign can you tell me of any other string library that is so huge,
> 
> Unfortunately to raise your skill level is what is required to use this library if you can't then put the library down, it's ashame but from my conclusion it's the unfortunate truth.
> 
> But if anything if I may say it is the library's biggest issue, because we all live in a plug and play world and nobody wants to use or put effort into raising there skill level, it's all about out of the box so to speak
> 
> So in this aspect many fall over or fall on the sword, and start to criticism because hay who wants to put so much effort into a library so let's all just slam it well it is the simple option rather than use you skill



Thanks for a good laugh.


----------



## Dear Villain

eli0s said:


> Come on, please don't be offended! I don't believe the comment was to be taken literally, I think that he is overacting a bit on the strings part of it.
> 
> As a composition I find it great! I really liked your orchestration also! I think that the woodwind writing excel in the piece! The mixing could be improved, but this is the most difficult part in virtual orchestras I believe! I'm never happy with my mixes either.
> 
> I would have wanted the strings to be more exposed, I can't draw any safe conclusions as an example for legatos in SyS in this mix. However, SyS does sound better in the mix on this piece than some other examples so far.
> 
> Anyway, be well and thank you for your contribution!
> 
> Elias



Elias,

I very much appreciate your comments and thank you for your feedback. What I'll never get used to, is the way people on forums so blatantly lack basic etiquette and social skills. To blurt out that someone's music is a joke, without so much as a single kind word, especially when anyone who's worked with virtual instruments and composition understands the sheer magnitude and amount of work that goes in to producing a nine minute orchestral piece, is in my opinion, very distasteful and indicative of someone that clearly lacks maturity and awareness.

Basically: if you went to a live performance, and then went backstage to meet the composer right after, would the first words out of your mouth be, "is that a joke?" If yes, then I assure you, you're better off living on an island wth no human contact.

Just my two cents,
Dave


----------



## eli0s

Dave, to further develop the argument based on your example, here are the first bars of your lovely piece, rendered with CSS (put together by ear and without too much thinking). The panning is different, I think that you staged the 2nd violins to the right, but otherwise I tried to stay true to the original.


I must admit that for the ostinato line I prefer the sound of SyS! I think that the thinner sound without any vibrato makes it more "flexible" repeating the notes, while the CSS are having a bit too much character. However, the cello part is more expressive with CSS and has more presence! Also, the legato is more "glued" in CSS, in the SyS version, only the 16th notes sound truly connected.

Anyway, I enjoyed making this, I hope it will resonate positively as an example!

Take care,

Elias


----------



## novaburst

Simon Ravn said:


> Thanks for a good laugh.



Lough at what you mean you don't have the skill level, or you mean you don't need skills to work the library

There is such a thing as different library type some are just not main stream.


----------



## Sovereign

eli0s said:


> Dave, to further develop the argument based on your example, here are the first bars of your lovely piece, rendered with CSS (put together by ear and without too much thinking). The panning is different, I think that you staged the 2nd violins to the right, but otherwise I tried to stay true to the original.


Difference is night and day, IMHO.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Sovereign said:


> I keep reading that on the VSL forum too from a selected few, "it sounds bad because you don't know how to use the library yet" or some such. It is truly hilarious



Yeah, there are a few people over there who seemingly made it their mission to police the forum and deride negative opinions. It's not just about the legato or the general tone of the library either. They will readily present the "skill" argument no matter what the criticism is actually about. 

Turns out, apparently it takes serious chops to be able to appreciate borderline scam fake articulations like the SyS sforzando. And SyS is a product for serious composers, not film trailer simpletons, that's why it's so huge while offering less actual content that any other library out there. It all comes down to having the chops and spending enough time with it ...  Those folks are absolute clowns.


----------



## Dear Villain

Elias,

Thanks for taking the time to do this. It is definitely commendable and shows a different flavour/interpretation of the opening. I think that those used to epic/cinematic orchestral will always prefer grander gestures, richer sounds, and more sweeping dynamics...a piece like this develops and tells a story that allows one to begin subtly and understated, which was by design. 

I think, from my experiences working with VSL, other libraries would have difficulty during the more technical passages. So, in that regard, I view VSL as the most suited to intricate, contrapuntal writing, even if openings like this piece might present the more Hollywood/cinematic style. Anyway, does one like vanilla or chocolate? That's what it comes down to...personal preference.

Incidentally, I actually blended Synchron with orchestral there, because I too, like others, am not satisfied with the legato fully exposed on its own. Kudos to you for doing this. As a VSL exclusive user, it's nice to know what else is out there, even though I am far more into writing and live performance and have been fortunate enough that my VSL renditions have actually pissed off a few live performers that I tried to get to play the pieces, because they sounded too realistic for "a computer." Lol

All the best,
Dave


----------



## Simon Ravn

novaburst said:


> Lough at what you mean you don't have the skill level, or you mean you don't need skills to work the library
> 
> There is such a thing as different library type some are just not main stream.



What are your credentials? Where can I listen to some music you have composed with sample libraries? Just so I know who I am talking to.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> They will readily present the "skill" argument no matter what the criticism is actually about.



Well I think it is absurd just because some have found away to make the library work be it higher skills or otherwise, I think it's ashame for you to lable us as clowns, and this is the type of attitude that discourages others from posting demos 

It's like what ever the demo is like you all just want to call it crap to champion CSS or to make sure there is a negative flow continues 

You just don't have an open mind why can't you just accept that there are users with higher skill levels or have you reached the top of all muck up skills

You refuse to be open minded, why because it did not work for you, so because it never worked for you it's not allowed to work for anyone is........ Is that it is that the way life is meant to work.

The real fact is some see things in the library that you and others have missed but you want accept that as plain fact now will you we are just pissing clowns now aren't we


----------



## CT

_- enters thread to see where things are with this library, expecting to hear at least half-decent strings, not expecting super cringey drama 

- reads the last few pages 





_


----------



## Simon Ravn

novaburst said:


> Lough at what you mean you don't have the skill level, or you mean you don't need skills to work the library
> 
> There is such a thing as different library type some are just not main stream.



What are your credentials? Where can I listen to some music you have composed with sample libraries? Just so I know who I am talking to.

Not getting an answer to this, am I?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> Well I think it is absurd just because some have found away to make the library work be it higher skills or otherwise, I think it's ashame for you to lable us as clowns, and this is the type of attitude that discourages others from posting demos
> 
> It's like what ever the demo is like you all just want to call it crap to champion CSS or to make sure there is a negative flow continues
> 
> You just don't have an open mind why can't you just accept that there are users with higher skill levels or have you reached the top of all muck up skills
> 
> You refuse to be open minded, why because it did not work for you, so because it never worked for you it's not allowed to work for anyone is........ Is that it is that the way life is meant to work.
> 
> The real fact is some see things in the library that you and others have missed but you want accept that as plain fact now will you we are just pissing clowns now aren't we



No.

See, this is exactly more of the vapid verbiage that gets on people's nerves in the first place. Stick to the facts. No need for this principle debate BS babble.

The truth is that only by dismissing this kind of stuff as clownery am I able to not actually take it as an insult to my intelligence. Because the _factual, out-of-discussion_ shortcomings of the library have nothing to do with not being "open minded", "skilled" or "educated" enough.

Several articulation options in the library are just stacked samples and not true articulations at all (super short, sfz, fp, marcato). That's a FACT. No amount of "open-mindedness" or zen will be able to change that.

That the library offers very little in terms of actual content for its size is also a FACT. No need for open minds and autogenic training - a quick comparison of articulation lists of similarly priced products is sufficient.

These criticisms have nothing to do with personal taste, expectations or musical experience. Granted, some others are debatable to a certain point - like the perceived quality of the legatos for example. Surely expectations are a factor here as well, and I can even live with the caveat that the patches might not sound _that_ bad after spending some more time with them in order to learn how to get the best possible results. But then again: how good can these possibly end up being?

Still: many people who criticize SyS legatos obviously own and use other string libraries and KNOW what to expect from a product. They are knowledgeable and experienced enough to be able to tell when something doesn't feel right to them - even without spending months working with the library. To insinuate that these people simply don't have the knowledge or aren't "worthy" of the product is insolent and borderline insulting.

This is exactly the reason why people are reacting increasingly irritable to the repetitive and stupefyingly out of touch mantras of "you don't understand the product" and "you lack the skill to put it to good use".


----------



## Sovereign

novaburst said:


> because some have found away to make the library work


I don't think they've made it "work" at all, the end result is what it is. They just have different standards. They're certainly not my standards when it comes to doing convincing strings mockups.


----------



## Piotrek K.

This thread is close to becoming a perpetuum mobile. Crazy a bit, but yeah, it's a good read. And my motherboard broke, so instead of writing music, I'm writing something here xD

I just want to say something to all those guys who says that SyS needs learning or that I'm not PRO enough or I'm not a guy who started to compose with samples in early 1950', a quote from VSL Synchron Strings page:

*The Beauty of Simplicity*
With _Synchron Strings I_, we have achieved the ultimate in realism and expressiveness, *while providing a new level of ease-of-use. (...) *Its innovative new algorithms *make it even more effortless to render strings with astounding realism.

*


----------



## Sovereign

Piotrek K. said:


> *The Beauty of Simplicity*
> With _Synchron Strings I_, we have achieved the ultimate in realism and expressiveness, *while providing a new level of ease-of-use. (...) *Its innovative new algorithms *make it even more effortless to render strings with astounding realism.
> *


How much I wish this were true (it is the reason I pre-ordered!).

And don't forget the "_Synchron Strings I_ is about to set a new standard in sound, *playability and realism*".


----------



## muziksculp

Piotrek K. said:


> *The Beauty of Simplicity*
> With _Synchron Strings I_, we have achieved the ultimate in realism and expressiveness, *while providing a new level of ease-of-use. (...) *Its innovative new algorithms *make it even more effortless to render strings with astounding realism.*





But they forgot to add, that you first have to obtain a PHD in Synchron Strings 1 Operations Technology & Applied Musical Sciences Degree before you can realize how easy it is to use, and produce realistic result, looks like no one got their PHD yet to post a great sounding demo. Hahaha.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Simon Ravn said:


> Is that a joke? It sounds unconvincing in every way.



I like it.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> shortcomings of the library have nothing to do with not being "open minded", "skilled" or "educated" enough.



Short comings in articulation yes fact, open minded in the fact some see much more in the library than others and are able to make the product work and sound good including legato, and are not clowns fact


----------



## richhickey

Dear Villain said:


> What I'll never get used to, is the way people on forums so blatantly lack basic etiquette and social skills. To blurt out that someone's music is a joke, without so much as a single kind word, especially when anyone who's worked with virtual instruments and composition understands the sheer magnitude and amount of work that goes in to producing a nine minute orchestral piece, is in my opinion, very distasteful and indicative of someone that clearly lacks maturity and awareness.



I'm sorry you had to suffer that Dave. I just want to let you know that I really appreciate your posts, especially of your own music, even more so given the increasingly hostile climate here. I've learned a lot about how VSL does and could sound, and your recordings have helped me make many satisfying purchase decisions. I also appreciate that you're working in more of the non-cinematic, pure orchestral space, and thus your examples show off different things than others. So, thanks!

As creative people we ought to realize how corrosive direct, unconstructive, negative feedback is to our psyches and sense of self worth, and that it's no different for other creative people, be they our fellow musicians or those making sample libs and other tools we use.

I haven't been in this community long, but I have seen other communities fall when such negativity increases _and is tolerated_. I know the mods are working on this, and am hopeful.

So to all the fire-breathers out there (if you take personal offense at this then you know who you are): I know you think your petty little negative barbs are clever and valuable and somehow driving the world to conform to your needs. But the truth is, your messages are nothing more than hot air, they contribute nothing, create nothing, and demonstrate nothing but the copious amounts of free time you have to waste criticizing people who actually create things, while you behave like entitled little children with poor communication and social skills. Your negativity is destructive to others and the community, so think twice before posting venom, please. It might make you feel just as good to just type it out but not send it. Try it!


----------



## novaburst

Piotrek K. said:


> *The Beauty of Simplicity*
> With _Synchron Strings I_, we have achieved the ultimate in realism and expressiveness, *while providing a new level of ease-of-use. (...) *Its innovative new algorithms *make it even more effortless to render strings with astounding realism.*



Perhaps simplicity should not have been used or even the words effortless should not ha e been used.


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> I don't think they've made it "work" at all, the end result is what it is. They just have different standards. They're certainly not my standards when it comes to doing convincing strings mockups.



I agree to some degree but can we not say that about all string librarys is it not skill level or the users knowledge, or how strings work because in some muck ups what ever library it is orchestral knowledge goes a long way


----------



## novaburst

Simon Ravn said:


> What are your credentials? Where can I listen to some music you have composed with sample libraries? Just so I know who I am talking to.
> 
> Not getting an answer to this, am I?



@Dear Villain just posted a wonderful muck up and without a second thought you slammed it as crap, you was not looking for anything good to say about it just crap crap crap any thing SyS is crap but your asking me to post, where are your decency dude you ant looking for constructive criticism or any thing good in SyS your just waiting to say crap why would anyone want to post


----------



## Simon Ravn

novaburst said:


> @Dear Villain just posted a wonderful muck up and without a second thought you slammed it as crap, you was not looking for anything good to say about it just crap crap crap any thing SyS is crap but your asking me to post, where are your decency dude you ant looking for constructive criticism or any thing good in SyS your just waiting to say crap why would anyone want to post



Truth is, you are not a composer, are you...


----------



## Dear Villain

richhickey said:


> I'm sorry you had to suffer that Dave. I just want to let you know that I really appreciate your posts, especially of your own music, even more so given the increasingly hostile climate here. I've learned a lot about how VSL does and could sound, and your recordings have helped me make many satisfying purchase decisions. I also appreciate that you're working in more of the non-cinematic, pure orchestral space, and thus your examples show off different things than others. So, thanks!
> 
> As creative people we ought to realize how corrosive direct, unconstructive, negative feedback is to our psyches and sense of self worth, and that it's no different for other creative people, be they our fellow musicians or those making sample libs and other tools we use.
> 
> I haven't been in this community long, but I have seen other communities fall when such negativity increases _and is tolerated_. I know the mods are working on this, and am hopeful.
> 
> So to all the fire-breathers out there (if you take personal offense at this then you know who you are): I know you think your petty little negative barbs are clever and valuable and somehow driving the world to conform to your needs. But the truth is, your messages are nothing more than hot air, they contribute nothing, create nothing, and demonstrate nothing but the copious amounts of free time you have to waste criticizing people who actually create things, while you behave like entitled little children with poor communication and social skills. Your negativity is destructive to others and the community, so think twice before posting venom, please. It might make you feel just as good to just type it out but not send it. Try it!



Rich,

It's rare to see a post that is so heartfelt and sincere, and expresses exactly my personal feelings. Thank you for being so willing to share what I think a lot of people that post on forums need to hear: there is a person behind every post. The music we create and share is meaningful and a source of pride to us. It may not be to someone else, but to purposefully and with no regard to the feelings of the person sharing their work, demean, disparage, or otherwise dismiss as worthless or bad, etc. is to really fail to see a much bigger lesson: it's much better to be a source of light, to bring people up, to appreciate a community built on sharing our talents with each other, than it is to elevate yourself at the expense of others. 

I will continue to post music as I enjoy contributing in this way, in spite of the few that always come out of the woodwork to criticize (as in non-constructive...unlike Elias, whose feedback was in the spirit of improving my piece and most welcome). I receive a lot of validation in the real world (two performances of VSL rendered works this week in Ontario and Alberta by symphony musicians that were specifically sold on the music by my mock-ups). Perhaps that's why I take all this with a grain of salt. We all have different criteria as to what we're listening for, and to that end, I'm sure much of my music is unappealing to many people here, but I personally would never initiate a discussion with anyone, beginning with "is that supposed to be a joke?" Wow, just wow.

Cheers and I'm glad you've gotten some value out of my past postings, Rich. Your post just made my day and reminded me that there are still good, decent people, even on message boards 

All the best,
Dave


----------



## novaburst

Simon Ravn said:


> Truth is, you are not a composer, are you...



What if I am not, will that effect how you feel about SyS,


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

It would be really appreciated if we can stick to discussing the library, and not forum members musicianship, we are all great musicians, and have unique talents, this thread is about VSL Synchron Strings 1, so let's stay on topic. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Simon Ravn

novaburst said:


> What if I am not, will that effect how you feel about SyS,



Not at all, but it will make it obvious that you dont know what you are talking about when you evaluate sample libraries.


----------



## novaburst

Simon Ravn said:


> Not at all, but it will make it obvious that you dont know what you are talking about when you evaluate sample libraries.



Wow you drive a hard bargain dude turn it down a notch down, try not to get to personal. 



muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> It would be really appreciated if we can stick to discussing the library, and not forum members musicianship, we are all great musicians, and have unique talents, this thread is about VSL Synchron Strings 1, so let's stay on topic.



Perhaps this is the way forward


----------



## Esther Gagné

It's funny. I've been following this thread for ages, reading every page since around november while sipping my morning coffee, giggling at some of the quick-witted answers from some, and often shocked by the complete lack of social skills emanating from others. Which is strange as music is in great part the expression of impressions and feelings turned into sound, I dread to hear the music of individuals whose sole purpose is egotistical self-satisfaction at the expense of respect and civility. Hurting others won't bring you better sounding samples. It is ok if you made a mistake. Just try to sell your library back. There is no need to avenge your pride because you bought something that doesn't suit you.

You bought that hat, you were so happy you thought everyone would say how cool you look, but after a few days, you noticed you just look dumb with it? Don't put it on. Or bring it back, and tell the hatter you're not satisfied, maybe. But don't just go to the shop whinning, threatening, then slamming your fists on the counter while insulting the clients around laughing at how ridiculous they look, hoping the hatter will comply with your every demand and bring you the perfect new hat for free. If you think that way, you must be immensly disatisfied with almost everything life is made of. The hatter did his best to create a pretty hat, and now he is being scolded for that. The hat is pretty, Maybe you're just not as pretty as you thought you were. Yeah I know, you could have bought two new roompacks with the money, or half the dimension collection you where hesitant to get because somehow, the sound seemed a bit metallic to your precious ears. Samples are expensive because they are hard and painstaking to create. They aren't good enough for your music? Try pencil and paper. Try screenwritting! You're good at creating a scene drived by conflict, and visibly a prolific writer.



At the bottom of everyhting, I really think people working at developping sample libraries wish to make others happy and help them create beautiful music, while on the other hand, one cannot dismiss the pecuniary dimension of it all either. They all try to sell. Everyone needs to eat. But, be it toward the music of composers brave and generous enough to risk posting excerpts of their work in here only to see themselves ridiculed, or toward the VSL team, such lack of respect is untolerable in my opinion, as empathy and respect are basic notions anyone should learn before pretending to interact as an adult. You won't get the best out of people while whipping them. They'll ditch you on the side of the road on the first occasion with a bump on the forehead. Healthy emulation comes from positive criticism. Do you seriously think the dedicated people from VSL, who spent months planning and adjusting microphones, joking with the musicians, sweating over thousands of samples to combine and hoping for the best are gonna come in front of you here, laugh sadly and watch their feet saying: "Yeah, you're right, we suck." Would you? Haha, no.



I have bought loads of libraries during the past years, the full VSL Cube, plus the organ, the piano, the saxophones, then Hollywood Strings, Hollywood Brass, Spitfire S.O. and Chamber Strings, Embertone strings, CSS, CSSS, VSS2, QL Spaces, MIR Pro, etc. I am of no Party, I love them all, I hate them all. My neck hurts at the end of the day, I don't sleep well. Jeez, it was so much easier with some scoring paper in front of the piano 20 years ago! Everything sounded right inside my head. All of these are amazing products, but most of the time, you give your score to real musicians, hear it and tell yourself : "Wow! Did I really compose that??" You give the same score to your beloved template and think: "I am shit." and after three weeks of CC editing and tweaking, you get half the quarter of the real guys' result. Of course you want the perfect strings, woodwinds, brass. You cry when you listen to better John Williams mock-ups than yours, it's always featuring the library you don't own yet.

I don't have the Synchron Strings. Because I am the same as you, human, always wishing for better, I hesitate, I crave, carry ever greater expectations and then yield to temptation and am disappointed more often than not. Then I am broke and have to wait before the next big thing. And in November I could never have afforded these new instruments. But I've listened to every demo I could find and, well, my verdict is that it's a VSL library in every respect. VSL always try to be innovative. And then the others around see that idea and do it differently, sometimes better for "this" or "that". Others wanna be innovative and they sample 500 cellos so that the next trailer music will break new ground, enriched by the glorious swimming pool of 4/4, C minor, I-VI-IV-V triads of 1500 virtual cellos under three fingers! I am fine with that, if that makes one happy, it's fine. It sure is silky.


----------



## Esther Gagné

But there is one thing: VSL is always consistent. You might not like the design of the hat, but damn the thing will resist to a heavy pour, and remain on your head through a thunder storm. I defend them here because the thread is about their product. Sure, these demos here or there sound more convincing. But did they mock up the whole freaking Rite of Spring?? Or the full extent of Star Wars' main title? Or Gershwin's piano concerto? Nope. There is nothing more honest in my opinion than doing demos using well known masterpieces. It's easy to get around the flaws of a library when you write something new. We've all done that. You know, that thing you so wanted to hear but you had to put tremolos or 5 note arpeggios instead because of the blattant machine gun? VSL creates versatile instruments, which are calibrated. Do you know many companies that offer fingered tremolos? The true range of double basses con sordino? Natural harmonic glissandos? And most of the time the same range of articulations for every instrument of the same family? The creators themselves answer your questions of their forum everyday. I don't see other companies doing that. "Send us the file, we'll open it and see if we can reproduce the bug here". Wow.

Of course, our vision of what a sample library should be depends on our artistic goals. It differs for everyone. I like timbral inventions and effects, extended intricate writing and contrapuntal works. I don't want to use some prerecorded textures. I want to be free to try an idea and hear it, and VSL libraries are about the only ones that allow me to do that. And if the articulation I'm looking for is not available, I know they are about the only guys who probably thought about it and plan to offer it someday. I don't like trailer music, I don't care about 20 horns in unisson and I love woodwinds.

My opinion is that the Synchron Strings were created with a different architecture in mind, in order to offer a lot more dynamic layers and round robins than usual. Thus, attacks might have been separated from their remaining lengths in order to achieve a greater number of versions of the same note without making the library immensly heavy, but I might be wrong. Also, they seem to offer a greater number of microphone positions than most and calibrated dynamics. Multiply all these dynamic layers by all the mic positions and you get a gargantuan library. I think this is an answer to competitors who create ambient libraries that are difficult to work with because of inconsistencies. How many times have I lost my mind trying to adjust a template where legatos are 6 dB softer than the rest of the articulations, and tremolos 7 dB louder? To me, the fact VSL envisioned an ambient series of libraries is already proof they are committed to satisfy more recent trends and demands. Of course some other libraries have more convincing legatos, they are also full of dispersed flaws which combined might sound like the true interpretation of a human being (on only 2 velocity layers sometimes). But a real musician doesn't "machine gun" flaws, and these become impossible to hide in a solo. I feel that VSL knows that and tries to allow users to create their own flaws from a pristine canvas, too pristine or surgical for many, as it is a lot of work for sure to create them all from scratch. The brushes are top notch, the canvas is the best linen you can find, but the brush strokes aren't there yet. You have to brush them in yourself. The major problem, in my opinion, is that they might have had too many irons in the fire, trying to emulate so many dynamic layers inside a multimicrophone environnement that it rendered the feat difficult to achieve with the most realistic results. But the endeavour has to be acknowledged.

There are a lot of tools included in VSL softwares that allow you to stretch and shape the sound of an instrument and it's behavior. I would suggest unsatisfied users to dig into the manuals a bit more because these contain a wealth of information about possibilities most won't exploit by lack of knowledge, motivation, or simply because there are so many combinations of approaches that one's fails to keep them all at the top of his (or her!) mind while working. I am one of them and am still learning. But once you discover how much you can do with these instruments, the gained sensation of freedom and steadiness is uncomparable. It will never be perfect, and Synchron Strings have their flaws, but they are a first and a risk willingly taken. This should be kept in mind, I think before starting to deride the effort. They are The Last Jedi of string libraries, haha! They sure subverted the expectations of many, and are very devisive, but that's what happens when some raise their expectations too high or believe too much in their own erroneous predictions. Still, better new than rehash. They have amazing shorts and a definition of sound I have never heard before. From what I've heard, they are a quality instrument, full of nuance. Unlike some of the people here who seem very happy to loudly repeat the same thing two hundred times, complaining. I would suggest to such persons to let go of their hate and stop such attacks on the hard work of others, composers and sample library creators alike, who have been since then more than likely hurt, both personally and commercially.

I apologise for my english, it is not my mother tongue, and I return bellow, into the depths of the internet...


----------



## shawnsingh

Hi all. Fairly new to VI control, but I did have some opinions to share about Synchron Strings.

I do actually agree with many of the criticisms of the library: (a) super shorts seem too truncated at the sample start, (b) legato transitions don't really seem to have true legato interval transitions, (c) sfz sounds blatantly like a short note layered on a sustain, and (d) generally I wish there were more articulations.

HOWEVER.... one of the things I loved in the past about their dry instruments was the ability to sculpt a nuanced performance with velocity xfade and articulation substitutions - I felt it was actually a nice advantage that their samples were so uniform and consistent, so it was possible to control the details of how expressiveness is performed.

For what it's worth, I do feel that VSL has managed to keep that property in Synchron Strings - the consistency of the samples is enough to allow articulation substitutions and fast crossfades as techniques for squeezing nuance in a performance. I don't know if that's important to people these days, but I like that aspect of the library.

I think the "sterile" "lifeless" sound of VSL can often be attributed users not riding the velocity xfade dramatically enough and often enough. I find it actually works better to think of velocity xfade as a bow pressure/speed control that you want to vary almost on every note, even moderately fast notes. Similarly, an "unnatural sounding line" can often be attributed to users not sculpting the attack and release of each note in ways that may mimic real players - this sculpting, for me, is a combination of velocity xfade riding and substituting articulations in not-so-obvious ways. Like using Fp on fast notes that should have a rounded emphasis. This is where more articulations could have helped, in my opinion, but oh well.

For sure, that kind of tweaking and hard work isn't for everyone - but I think it has been the spirit of VSL instruments all along, and it can be put to good use, and Synchron Strings retained this.

OK, so some examples to demonstrate what I'm proposing above. Here were a few Synchron Strings legato demos I made several months ago:

This one was various experiments with close mic mixing with other mics:


This video was earlier, trying to demonstrating that polyphonc legato with MIDI notes overlapping can help mask the odd legato transitions. That legato technique works better in my opinion than legato blur. I know a lot of people aren't satisfied with the legato (I am one of them) but for 95% of legato situations in practice, I think this technique is good enough to allow a listener to focus on the rest of the music, and not necessarily notice poor transitions. Also, please note, that the middle sections of this demo are intended to show how some techniques alone are NOT adequate. The real technique I think works is shown at the beginning and at the end.


One other thought I had, but I have not experimented with this as much and I don't know for certain: I suspect many people (me definitely included) jumped straight to the strong vibrato style articulations, without considering the normal vibrato at all. Maybe if we try to scale back all dynamics by one level, and if we use the normal vibrato more often, saving the strong vibrato for those occasional expressive moments (and crossfading between normal and strong for that), maybe that could reveal another layer of expressiveness that these samples have. I wonder if a lot of us have been trying to mix the mic positions based on how the strong vib sounds, which might be preventing us from hearing how good the normal vibrato might be. I hope I can experiment with this eventually, but sadly I already know I won't have any time to try for several more months. I'd be interested to hear experiments if other people try these ideas.

Cheers!


----------



## Simon Ravn

Dear Villain said:


> Rich,
> 
> It's rare to see a post that is so heartfelt and sincere, and expresses exactly my personal feelings. Thank you for being so willing to share what I think a lot of people that post on forums need to hear: there is a person behind every post. The music we create and share is meaningful and a source of pride to us. It may not be to someone else, but to purposefully and with no regard to the feelings of the person sharing their work, demean, disparage, or otherwise dismiss as worthless or bad, etc. is to really fail to see a much bigger lesson: it's much better to be a source of light, to bring people up, to appreciate a community built on sharing our talents with each other, than it is to elevate yourself at the expense of others.
> 
> I will continue to post music as I enjoy contributing in this way, in spite of the few that always come out of the woodwork to criticize (as in non-constructive...unlike Elias, whose feedback was in the spirit of improving my piece and most welcome). I receive a lot of validation in the real world (two performances of VSL rendered works this week in Ontario and Alberta by symphony musicians that were specifically sold on the music by my mock-ups). Perhaps that's why I take all this with a grain of salt. We all have different criteria as to what we're listening for, and to that end, I'm sure much of my music is unappealing to many people here, but I personally would never initiate a discussion with anyone, beginning with "is that supposed to be a joke?" Wow, just wow.
> 
> All the best,
> Dave



Just for the record, again, my comment was not aimed at the composition! But your post was a response to the criticism of SyS. So yes, I don't think your piece proves anything good about SyS and its legato/sound. Sorry if it came across as a criticism of your compositional abilities, that was not my intention.


----------



## Sovereign

shawnsingh said:


> For what it's worth, I do feel that VSL has managed to keep that property in Synchron Strings - the consistency of the samples [...]
> 
> I think the "sterile" "lifeless" sound of VSL can often be attributed users not riding the velocity xfade dramatically enough and often enough.


I believe the consistency of the samples is in fact its Achilles heel. The lifeless sound is not cured by riding the xfade more often, I tried. The timbre - determined by how the players performed - is baked in, and you can't change that no matter how much you pull on that mod wheel (or whatever controller one uses). That is why it sounds flat. If I pick any recent library - be it CSS, Soaring Strings, or Jaeger - even when _not_ using xfade control to shape the dynamics, the strings already sound 'alive' when playing the most simplest of lines. No amount of cc tweaking will fix this for Synchron, they'd need new recordings.


----------



## romantic

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Several articulation options in the library are just stacked samples and not true articulations at all (super short, sfz, fp, marcato). That's a FACT. No amount of "open-mindedness" or zen will be able to change that.


You think that super shorts are stacked? I am pretty shure with sfz but not others. I could not find any official statement here which articulations are "true" (recorded) and which are "scripted". Any other opinions there?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

romantic said:


> You think that super shorts are stacked? I am pretty shure with sfz but not others. I could not find any official statement here which articulations are "true" (recorded) and which are "scripted". Any other opinions there?



Sorry, I didn't mean that the super short is a stacked articulation - just a "fake" one in the sense that it's not an actual, recorded performance. I'm pretty sure that these are actually derived from the regular "shorts" recordings, but just truncated to make them shorter. Unfortunately it sounds pretty weird and not very musical.


----------



## Tfis

Legato and longs share (parts of?) the same samples.

Another reproducible cubase crash:

Sy-player

Make a mix layer of three fast legato articulations (i used violin 1)
Try to set up the 2nd and 3rd cell to play after the 1st (delay parameter edit page).
Lower sustain to 0 and try to get a little of a release by raising decay/hold.

I wanted to build a articulation for fast runs.

Cubase crashes after trying to edit the second or third cell.
Always.

Those technical issues don't make it easier to get the most out of this library.


----------



## Eptesicus

Esther Gagné said:


> But there is one thing: VSL is always consistent. You might not like the design of the hat, but damn the thing will resist to a heavy pour, and remain on your head through a thunder storm. I defend them here because the thread is about their product. Sure, these demos here or there sound more convincing. But did they mock up the whole freaking Rite of Spring?? Or the full extent of Star Wars' main title? Or Gershwin's piano concerto? Nope. There is nothing more honest in my opinion than doing demos using well known masterpieces. It's easy to get around the flaws of a library when you write something new. We've all done that. You know, that thing you so wanted to hear but you had to put tremolos or 5 note arpeggios instead because of the blattant machine gun? VSL creates versatile instruments, which are calibrated. Do you know many companies that offer fingered tremolos? The true range of double basses con sordino? Natural harmonic glissandos? And most of the time the same range of articulations for every instrument of the same family? The creators themselves answer your questions of their forum everyday. I don't see other companies doing that. "Send us the file, we'll open it and see if we can reproduce the bug here". Wow.
> 
> Of course, our vision of what a sample library should be depends on our artistic goals. It differs for everyone. I like timbral inventions and effects, extended intricate writing and contrapuntal works. I don't want to use some prerecorded textures. I want to be free to try an idea and hear it, and VSL libraries are about the only ones that allow me to do that. And if the articulation I'm looking for is not available, I know they are about the only guys who probably thought about it and plan to offer it someday. I don't like trailer music, I don't care about 20 horns in unisson and I love woodwinds.
> 
> My opinion is that the Synchron Strings were created with a different architecture in mind, in order to offer a lot more dynamic layers and round robins than usual. Thus, attacks might have been separated from their remaining lengths in order to achieve a greater number of versions of the same note without making the library immensly heavy, but I might be wrong. Also, they seem to offer a greater number of microphone positions than most and calibrated dynamics. Multiply all these dynamic layers by all the mic positions and you get a gargantuan library. I think this is an answer to competitors who create ambient libraries that are difficult to work with because of inconsistencies. How many times have I lost my mind trying to adjust a template where legatos are 6 dB softer than the rest of the articulations, and tremolos 7 dB louder? To me, the fact VSL envisioned an ambient series of libraries is already proof they are committed to satisfy more recent trends and demands. Of course some other libraries have more convincing legatos, they are also full of dispersed flaws which combined might sound like the true interpretation of a human being (on only 2 velocity layers sometimes). But a real musician doesn't "machine gun" flaws, and these become impossible to hide in a solo. I feel that VSL knows that and tries to allow users to create their own flaws from a pristine canvas, too pristine or surgical for many, as it is a lot of work for sure to create them all from scratch. The brushes are top notch, the canvas is the best linen you can find, but the brush strokes aren't there yet. You have to brush them in yourself. The major problem, in my opinion, is that they might have had too many irons in the fire, trying to emulate so many dynamic layers inside a multimicrophone environnement that it rendered the feat difficult to achieve with the most realistic results. But the endeavour has to be acknowledged.
> 
> There are a lot of tools included in VSL softwares that allow you to stretch and shape the sound of an instrument and it's behavior. I would suggest unsatisfied users to dig into the manuals a bit more because these contain a wealth of information about possibilities most won't exploit by lack of knowledge, motivation, or simply because there are so many combinations of approaches that one's fails to keep them all at the top of his (or her!) mind while working. I am one of them and am still learning. But once you discover how much you can do with these instruments, the gained sensation of freedom and steadiness is uncomparable. It will never be perfect, and Synchron Strings have their flaws, but they are a first and a risk willingly taken. This should be kept in mind, I think before starting to deride the effort. They are The Last Jedi of string libraries, haha! They sure subverted the expectations of many, and are very devisive, but that's what happens when some raise their expectations too high or believe too much in their own erroneous predictions. Still, better new than rehash. They have amazing shorts and a definition of sound I have never heard before. From what I've heard, they are a quality instrument, full of nuance. Unlike some of the people here who seem very happy to loudly repeat the same thing two hundred times, complaining. I would suggest to such persons to let go of their hate and stop such attacks on the hard work of others, composers and sample library creators alike, who have been since then more than likely hurt, both personally and commercially.
> 
> I apologise for my english, it is not my mother tongue, and I return bellow, into the depths of the internet...



I disagree with everything you have wrote.

Why should we be happy about being sold a demonstrably duff (and falsely advertised) product?

Why should we put up with vsl sycophants telling us we don't have the skill to make this library sound good?

A lot of us (including myself) no doubt don't have the money to waste on a complete dud of a library so perhaps it might be better if you step off your high horse and take your long drivel about hats and how we should all be nice to a company that have taken our money and not delivered their end of the bargain elsewhere.


----------



## Piotrek K.

> I suspect many people (me definitely included) jumped straight to the strong vibrato style articulations, without considering the normal vibrato at all.



I actually got rid of standard vibrato patches (if I only could delete those). They are the weakest, the deadest link there in my opinion. Crossfade from non vibrato to lyrical is much nicer imo, because somewhere near value 80-90 it sounds like standard vibrato patch, but slightly more alive. And at max there is hearable movement in sound (decca tree classic preset) - still far from molto vibrato though. Plus changing wave start offset to something like 0.5 makes vibrato to kick in a bit faster (also on legato and the dreaded bump is kinda gone).


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

i think N just released a Hat library.


----------



## Esther Gagné

Eptesicus said:


> I disagree with everything you have wrote.
> 
> Why should we be happy about being sold a demonstrably duff (and falsely advertised) product?
> 
> Why should we put up with vsl sycophants telling us we don't have the skill to make this library sound good?
> 
> A lot of us (including myself) no doubt don't have the money to waste on a complete dud of a library so perhaps it might be better if you step off your high horse and take your long drivel about hats and how we should all be nice to a company that have taken our money and not delivered their end of the bargain elsewhere.



Oh, I know how you feel, and you have the right to be disappointed. I know how long you've all waited for the release and I can put myself in your shoes. I was just saying there is no need to be rude to each other because I don't think anything good will come out of it. 

I don't think I am a sycophant. I like VSL but my other libraries too. Actually, I use CSS + Spitfire Chamber Strings combined as two divisi sections and it works very well. : )

But I am still very curious of the Synchron Strings because despite all that's been said, I still like the sound, so I keep coming back here. Sorry if you felt my remarks were out of place. Good night.


----------



## Tfis

Could someone please build a patch like shown on the picture and play some fast notes on a windows system?
In my case windows crashes cubase immediately.
Thanks.


----------



## Vischebaste

Hi all,

Just installing the Synchron samples and a warning pops up saying they need to be installed to an SSD? Is this really true? I don't remember that warning when installing the previous samples for the Vienna Instrument player?


----------



## Sovereign

Vischebaste said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just installing the Synchron samples and a warning pops up saying they need to be installed to an SSD? Is this really true? I don't remember that warning when installing the previous samples for the Vienna Instrument player?


You do not want to run it off a regular HD.


----------



## Vischebaste

Thanks. Has anyone tried doing this? If so, how bad is it?

When originally purchasing (during the first discount period), I remember a recommendation to use an SSD, now it seems to be a requirement. Is that correct, or am I misremembering?


----------



## novaburst

Vischebaste said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just installing the Synchron samples and a warning pops up saying they need to be installed to an SSD? Is this really true? I don't remember that warning when installing the previous samples for the Vienna Instrument player?



SyS is VSLs largest library by far, it can work on Hdd but you will struggle, especially in loading times, and if you have recorded many tracks with SyS starting up will be a nightmare using standard Hdd, even with SSD it takes its toll,

SSD it the way to go


----------



## Vischebaste

Thanks. Can anyone confirm if this has changed from a recommendation (during the promo period) to a requirement? It's entirely possible that I missed it originally, but if I had spotted that, I would not have purchased.


----------



## novaburst

Vischebaste said:


> Thanks. Has anyone tried doing this? If so, how bad is it?
> 
> When originally purchasing (during the first discount period), I remember a recommendation to use an SSD, now it seems to be a requirement. Is that correct, or am I misremembering?



Yes I did this when It was first released as it did not come as a whole library so I installed it on a HDD until the whole library was completed and the full size for the standard was clear,

it works but the issues came when using many track lanes, it took forever to load,

it can work but works much better on SSD


----------



## ChristianM

@https://vi-control.net/community/threads/vsl-synchron-strings-i-announced-nov-release.65555/members/vischebaste.10748/ (Vischebaste)
SSD is a good idea in all cases today…


----------



## erica-grace

Dear Villain said:


> For those wanting to hear the most convincing use of Synchron, by an absolute master, check out the opening of this Tchaikovsky Serenade, originally posted on VSL's forum. It hasn't received much feedback there, so maybe with a larger audience. Rendition by Steffan Fahl: http://klassik.resampled.de/index.php/en/composers/t/tschaikowski-pjotr-iljitsch/2187-p-i-tschaikowsky-serenade-op-48 (http://klassik.resampled.de/index.p...iljitsch/2187-p-i-tschaikowsky-serenade-op-48)



LOL!


----------



## HBen

Dear Villain said:


> What? No like?



I still cannot believe VSL developed such a synthy string library in the year of 2018. I should not pre-order this, I feel deeply sad for my wallet.


----------



## mobileavatar

the "synchron-ized" concept sonically sounds even more "synthe-sized" instead, compared to the original or with MIR (Synchron Roompack).

At least to me, it's yet another nail in the coffin.


----------



## HBen

mobileavatar said:


> the "synchron-ized" concept sonically sounds even more "synthe-sized" instead, compared to the original or with MIR (Synchron Roompack).
> 
> At least to me, it's yet another nail in the coffin.



I say big NO to Synchron-ized Chamber Strings this time, I am absolutely not going to buy it. VSL should spend its time to fix Synchron Strings I and focus on developing real and brand-new Synchron Series.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Dear Villain said:


> For those wanting to hear the most convincing use of Synchron, by an absolute master, check out the opening of this Tchaikovsky Serenade, originally posted on VSL's forum. It hasn't received much feedback there, so maybe with a larger audience. Rendition by Steffan Fahl: http://klassik.resampled.de/index.php/en/composers/t/tschaikowski-pjotr-iljitsch/2187-p-i-tschaikowsky-serenade-op-48


well.. the shorts sound great.


----------



## novaburst

ChristianM said:


> @https://vi-control.net/community/threads/vsl-synchron-strings-i-announced-nov-release.65555/members/vischebaste.10748/ (Vischebaste)
> SSD is a good idea in all cases today…



Prices are really good and falling at the moment, plus many other compernys are getting involved,


----------



## Sovereign

erica-grace said:


> LOL!


It sounds like a Casio keyboard to be honest, and that might be even insulting to Casio.


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> It sounds like a Casio keyboard to be honest, and that might be even insulting to Casio.



Whilst I don't agree with the casino statement, it is clear there was no real legato demonstration and I did not like the way the strings applied, 

Anyway is it possible you can post something from yourself or what you have heard to be a good example of a string demo I kindly ask,

Please no CSS

Thanks in advance


----------



## Sovereign

novaburst said:


> Whilst I don't agree with the casino statement, it is clear there was no real legato demonstration and I did not like the way the strings applied,
> 
> Anyway is it possible you can post something from yourself or what you have heard to be a good example of a string demo I kindly ask,
> 
> Please no CSS
> 
> Thanks in advance


Hey Nova, I'm not sure what it is you're looking for that hasn't already been posted. There are two demos I did already buried somewhere in this thread, one with Soaring Strings and one with CSS. Both of which demonstrate what "a good example of a string demo" is as far as I'm concerned. I can probably add more comparisons, for example to the legatos in Jaeger, Hollywood Strings or CineStrings, but I'm not sure that would add any good value since we both seem to agree the classical demo falls short of demonstrating a good (legato) string sound anyway.


----------



## novaburst

Sovereign said:


> did already buried somewhere in this thread, one with Soaring Strings and one with CSS. Both of which demonstrate what "a good example of a string demo



That was back in the days lol according to the length of this thread yes I think I remember you posting. 

I think we need to hear something more contemporary with SyS with a little bit more involvement.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> Please no CSS



Why? Because it's too much of an example what a good string library should be like in 2018?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

I am listening to the tschaikowsky example right now....is that synchron strings? Hmm..:( I mean..the programming is ..hm..someone mentioned casio..hmm....I don´t know what to say..I think thats the programming also which takes down it for me. The shorts sounds quite good though. I better keep my mouth shut..because I know it is not easy to pull that things of with samples..but I wouldn´t use that as a demo to showcase synchron, at least not how that guy has done it..is VSL using that to showcase Synchron? I hope not..

The demos from guy bacos were for me up to this point the ones with the most effort trying really to show synchron in a good light


----------



## mobileavatar

novaburst said:


> I think we need to hear something more contemporary with SyS with a little bit more involvement.



https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Synchron_Chamber_Strings#!Demos

Probably the demos are examples of some of the best efforts. IMHO, the synchron-ized Chamber Strings by itself sounds a bit "vintage" but still more than decent with lots of character. Yet, as soon as the lib is layered with Synchron Strings, the realism drops.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Why? Because it's too much of an example what a good string library should be like in 2018?



What about Lass thats not good perhaps the foundation of what all string librarys should pattern from. 

I said no CSS because it's used to much kind of like a get out of jail card, so even if the muck ups not good people will say wow because it's CSS, 

Hope you can see my point, not slamming CSS.


----------



## novaburst

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> The demos from guy bacos were for me up to this point the ones with the most effort trying really to show synchron in a good light



Agree, I still think the legato for strings were not written in those pieces, so no legato show casing, but the pieces were well done

Who knows maybe someone loving the new player can do some magic.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

HBen said:


> I still cannot believe VSL developed such a synthy string library in the year of 2018. I should not pre-order this, I feel deeply sad for my wallet.



I don't like the sound of the demos. I finally have to say that, maybe, it's the room ambience which "destroys" the sound and makes it "phasy", because the old chamber strings sound more convincing. I'm still thinking that there is something wrong with the way the samples were edited and the phasy crossfade behaviour someone mentioned. For me the crossfade gets just louder, but there is no timbre change, so I don't understand the huge amount of velocity layers, but that's another topic. Just my opinion.

What I'm still missing is a "hollywood"-like demo. Apart from the Tchaikovsky demo I have the feeling that the demos were made for the library's capabilities, but not the other way round. Do you understand what I mean?


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

What about the legatos of the synchron-ized chamber strings? We all know the old ones, which sound great, in my opinion. Is it the same (problematic) editing as in Synchron Strings I. Can someone say something about it or post a legato demo?


----------



## novaburst

The New Synchron Player is very hungry, plus it sounds very different from the instrument, I find I can control things better with the instrument standard the raw sound coming from the instrument is much more appealing to me.

Using more than two mic positions with SyS is an absolute must I can not stress this enough this brings you a whole sound and tone, with the new player you will get into trouble pretty quickly with your basic i7 esp on poly Legato using more than 3 mic positions

using the instrument the sound is wide and has a sense of grain and high register is very nice too and when using close mic you can hear bow noise the higher you play,

the new player narrows it down and the high register sounds a little squeaky the higher you go, there appears to be processing right off the bat in the new player that could be the issue.

Seems like the old fashion blue and white is a winner for me plus the sound and tone

A question to the techs the new player only opens in Cubase cant get standalone or I cant get it in VEpro 5 is this because I have two version of the library running at the same time.

Thanks


----------



## holywilly

I also prefer the VI version of Synchron Strings I, it's more customizable and it's easier to edit my custom presets in standalone app.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> The New Synchron Player [...] sounds very different from the instrument ...
> 
> ... there appears to be processing right off the bat in the new player that could be the issue.



I think you're hearing things.


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I think you're hearing things.



Maybe I am hearing things , it could be the way I use the instrument.

I would like nothing more than to settle down with the new player, but the sound and flexibility coming from the instrument attracts me more,


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

novaburst said:


> I would like nothing more than to settle down with the new player, but the sound and flexibility coming from the instrument attracts me more,



I can relate to that. I feel that currently, VI PRO is still the more advanced and more flexible player. The only thing that the Synchron Player does that VI PRO doesn't is managing multiple mics and all the samples properly. Other that that, it actually misses a lot of functionality that VSL users have long gotten used to having.


----------



## Sovereign

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I am listening to the tschaikowsky example right now....is that synchron strings? Hmm..:( I mean..the programming is ..hm..someone mentioned casio..hmm....I don´t know what to say..I think thats the programming also which takes down it for me. The shorts sounds quite good though. I better keep my mouth shut..because I know it is not easy to pull that things of with samples..but I wouldn´t use that as a demo to showcase synchron, at least not how that guy has done it..is VSL using that to showcase Synchron? I hope not..
> 
> The demos from guy bacos were for me up to this point the ones with the most effort trying really to show synchron in a good light


When even Finale 2014 sounds better playing this you know something is wrong:


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

Sovereign said:


> When even Finale 2014 sounds better playing this you know something is wrong:



Pretty sure, synchron could do it better there, it is imo a programming issue. The guy really doesn´t know how to programm in that regards OR..maybe he didn´t took the time. Regardless what. I hope they don´t use that as demoing their library.


----------



## Sovereign

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Pretty sure, synchron could do it better there, it is imo a programming issue. The guy really doesn´t know how to programm in that regards OR..maybe he didn´t took the time. Regardless what. I hope they don´t use that as demoing their library.


Part of the problem is that several articulation are fake, they're stacked and made up out of other samples. A fake marcato doesn't necessarily have to sound fake, but imo the Synchron attempt does.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> several articulation are fake, they're stacked and made up out of other samples.



Are you sure these articulations are fake ? Did VSL say officially mention they are fake, or ... ? 

Why would they do such a thing ? makes no sense that they will do such a silly trick, when producing a pro-high-end strings library. 

( i.e. how did you figure out it is not a real marcato if that is the case here ?)


----------



## romantic

muziksculp said:


> Are you sure these articulations are fake ? Did VSL say officially mention they are fake, or ... ?
> 
> Why would they do such a thing ? makes no sense that they will do such a silly trick, when producing a pro-high-end strings library.
> 
> ( i.e. how did you figure out it is not a real marcato if that is the case here ?)


I tried to ask this some pages ago ... 
If i remember correctly there at least there seems to be some indications based on comparision of some recording errors (e.g.: some glitch in a sample, that is repeated in two different samples)


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

muziksculp said:


> Are you sure these articulations are fake ? Did VSL say officially mention they are fake, or ... ?
> 
> Why would they do such a thing ? makes no sense that they will do such a silly trick, when producing a pro-high-end strings library.
> 
> ( i.e. how did you figure out it is not a real marcato if that is the case here ?)



It's obvious by listening and playing. For example, if you play 16ths with the sfz patch, so that it doesn't get to sustain into the long note portion, you can tell it's the exact same sound as if you were playing the shorts patch.

The marcato isn't even a patch at all. The marcato dimension in the player is in fact just the normal longs patch in one slot and the "short overlay" patch (which is audibly a derivate from the shorts samples) in another, playing simultaneously.


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It's obvious by listening and playing. For example, if you play 16ths with the sfz patch, so that it doesn't get to sustain into the long note portion, you can tell it's the exact same sound as if you were playing the shorts patch.
> 
> The marcato isn't even a patch at all. The marcato dimension in the player is in fact just the normal longs patch in one slot and the "short overlay" patch (which is audibly a derivate from the shorts samples) in another, playing simultaneously.



Hmmm.. I will check on this later today. Wasn't expecting this from a Pro Level Strings Library by VSL. 

Q. How do you layer two or more slots in the new Synchron Player tree structure ? i.e. can you see this in the marcato patch of Sychron Player (where two slots have been layered to create a marcato sound) ?


----------



## Tfis

Rtfm


----------



## muziksculp

Tfis said:


> Rtfm



Thanks for being so helpful


----------



## Tfis

I dont want to be unpleasant, but tbh reading the manual which is very short (and has a lot of pictures, too) will help you much more than asking for "how to..". You'll get the big picture. 
Btw: layering sounds has been introduced with vi2 and didnt change much since sy-player.
There are also some tutorial videos on the vsl page. Hitting the "edit" button would show you how the marcato articulation has been build. 

You defend vsl in this thread quite enthusiastic, which is ok. But when doing this you should really know the basics.


----------



## muziksculp

Tfis said:


> I dont want to be unpleasant, but tbh reading the manual which is very short (and has a lot of pictures, too) will help you much more than asking for "how to..". You'll get the big picture.
> Btw: layering sounds has been introduced with vi2 and didnt change much since sy-player.
> There are also some tutorial videos on the vsl page. Hitting the "edit" button would show you how the marcato articulation has been build.
> 
> You defend vsl in this thread quite enthusiastic, which is ok. But when doing this you should really know the basics.



No worries, Thanks again for your helpful feedback, and constructive criticism. 

I did a fast read of the manual, but not in detail, (I will do a detailed read of the manual as soon as I can). I think I remember that the layer type icon on top of each group of articulations on a tree level does that. Anyways ... This is not rocket science, and I was just expecting a simple, and direct answer telling me how the layering is done.

I'm guessing you know that one of the benefits of being on a forum like this is to help each other, I know there is the manual that explains this, but nothing wrong with getting an explanation via the forum.

Cheers,
Muzisculp


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I'm starting to work with Synchron Strings I, and I'm curious if other users are using the various VSL Presets of this library, or are building their Custom Presets that better suit their way of working/needs ? 

I find the VSL Presets, with all the key-switches a bit annoying to work with, so I will look into building my custom presets, which might be more suitable for my workflow, and needs. 

Any feedback from users on this topic would be interesting, and helpful. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm starting to work with Synchron Strings I, and I'm curious if other users are using the various VSL Presets of this library, or are building their Custom Presets that better suit their way of working/needs ?
> 
> I find the VSL Presets, with all the key-switches a bit annoying to work with, so I will look into building my custom presets, which might be more suitable for my workflow, and needs.
> 
> Any feedback from users on this topic would be interesting, and helpful.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Whilst I am warming to the new player much more after switching off poly mode, and adjusting a few settings it is sounding like the instrument I am very happy with that but the reverb on the new player is questionable.

The new player has left quite a bit of options for customizing and user defined sound crafting and think this is a way forward I have not gone deep into this as yet but what you suggest makes a lot of sense.


----------



## muziksculp

novaburst said:


> Whilst I am warming to the new player much more after switching off poly mode



I'm guessing you are referring to Poly-Legato Mode, I also noticed that having Poly mode turned ON messes up the Legato transitions, and sounds odd. Keeping it in Mono Mode has a better, more detailed, and focused sound, and transitions are not bad once you put some effort in riding/sculpting the dynamics, and Velocity-XF if it is turned on.

I haven't done a lot of experimenting with 'Parallel Mode' to crossfade between slots on a dimension, it all depends on what slots one has in a certain dimension, and how the crossfade between them translates into musical results.

I plan to dig deeper into the new Tree-Structure Player, and see what that leads me to. Initially it feels a bit strange to work in this fashion, but I'm guessing it will make sense once I find a System that works for me using the Player. i.e. I might opt to use Program Changes instead of CC# to switch articulations, I'm also experimenting with which combination of Mics give me the most pleasing sound, and even then, I still add an Algorithmic Reverb to the mix. I find the Synchron Mics still kind of dry sounding for a final mix.

I will post more feedback on my experience with this library and the Synchron Player, so far the Short Articulations are excellent


----------



## muziksculp

Hi everybody,

Not much action on this thread lately 

Well, I was curious to know what VSL Synchron Player's Tree Structure offers that is an improvement over the Matrix System of VI-Pro 2 ? I personally don't see any specific improvement/s except that the Synchron Patches have full names, and are easier to find/organize in the tree. But that could have easily been done in a Matrix System. 

What are your thoughts on this ? 

I'm also curious to know how Synchron Strings I users are using the new Tree Structure to organize, and move between most frequently used articulations. Are you using the VSL Synchron I Presets ? or have you designed your own Presets, by re-organizing the Patches in the Tree-Structure/dimensions ..etc. 

I personally dislike the Presets provided by VSL, mainly because they require too many key-switches to access various articulations, since one needs to use key-switches to navigate to the various dimensions of the Tree Structure (The Columns of the Tree Structure). 

Any tips or ways to better organize the patches in the Tree-Structure, without using too many Key-Switches ? 

Any feedback on this topic would be interesting, and helpful. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Hello @muziksculp,

do you know what? I really am very disappointed, in all the ways, of Synchron Strings I and Synchron Player. Okay, I'm a graphic designer and thus a bit demanding, for me the player looks "retro" and with all these keywitches and colours it's confusing and by no way "simpler". I do like VI Pro, it's far superior and looks better. I simply don't understand what the idea behind all this was.

I don't want to talk anymore, this file is closed for me. Because Synchron Strings cannot be helped, and VSL still hasn't replied to anything, or posted new demos. I think they are happy with the product, don't know.

Actually, I decided that life goes on. There are so many other manufactures with better libraries. Period. Sorry to say that.


----------



## muziksculp

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Hello @muziksculp,
> 
> do you know what? I really am very disappointed, in all the ways, of Synchron Strings I and Synchron Player. Okay, I'm a graphic designer and thus a bit demanding, but the player looks "retro" and with all these keywitches and colours it's confusing and by no way "simpler". I do like VI Pro, it's far superior (and looks better). I simply don't understand what the idea behind all this was.
> 
> I don't want to talk anymore, this file is closed for me. Because Synchron Strings cannot be helped, and VSL still hasn't replied to anything, or posted new demos. I think they are happy with the product, don't know.
> 
> I decided, of course, life goes on. There are so many other manufactures with better libraries. Period. Sorry to say.



Yeah.. I'm in the same boat, so you are not alone. 

I really don't see what the new Synchron Player improves on, but on the contrary, I think it makes it harder to work with libraries, and confuses me, the GUI is not nice either, and the Tree-Structure concept is confusing as hell so far. Does nothing to make working with a library easier, or better. 

Anyone who finds the Tree-Structure better than VI-Pro 2's Matrix, please.. Please ... Enlighten me/us.


----------



## antcarrier

I sincerely hope that VSL go back to focusing on silent stage + MIR + VI Pro as their flagship. IMHO synchron libraries should be for percussion or keyboard instruments only. Anything that requires legato or automation of dynamics should be recorded dry - dry recording has massive advantages for these instruments.

Synchron series seems to be an attempt to attract new users that want instant results and don't want to focus on mixing (the biggest attraction of wet libraries as far as I can see). The problem is, the end result is vastly inferior to what is possible with their classic libraries once MIR has been used (perc/keys exempt).

The problem with attracting users to the classic libraries I feel is that you really need to buy 3 separate ($$$) products to get it working the way you imagine it should sound (lib + mir/mirx + vi pro). Comparatively, competitors products require only a single library and are ready to go. If VI Pro came built in with a Synchron Stage MIRx by default, VSL would be much more accessible to new users. Now that Synchronized Chambers Strings (another inferior product vs classic chamber strings) is out, I doubt this will even happen :(

I have a lot of VSL products and have been using them for a long time. I love their classic libraries. I find their recent change in direction disappointing, and unfortunately I bought Synchron Strings on the early bird offer. I doubt I will ever use it in a recording. The total lack of communication from VSL regarding SyS is also a letdown, especially as there are plenty of users over the years such as myself who have supported them by spending thousands of $ on their libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

antcarrier said:


> The total lack of communication from VSL regarding SyS is also a letdown, especially as there are plenty of users over the years such as myself who have supported them by spending thousands of $ on their libraries.



Yup. VSL's total lack of communication with concerned/unsatisfied customers, who purchased *VSL Synchron I* has made me Black List VSL as a company at this time. I won't be purchasing any of their Synchron Libraries, until they come down to earth, and communicate with their customers, instead of ignoring them.

As far as I can see, Synchron Strings I is almost a complete failure. (With the exception of the Short Articulations, which sound great). Synchron Player is another failure. It is a big step backwards from their VI-Pro 2. It offers nothing new, but rather offers less functionality, and is not intuitive/logical to use, maybe I'm wrong, if I am, please enlighten me about Synchron Player.


----------



## HBen

muziksculp, we are with you! You are definitely a leader who is constantly trying to promote for SyS 1 improvement, but sadly VSL ignored all of us. We can hear nothing from them, no feedback, no communication, no compensation for false advertisement.

There are so many other developers we can choose, and at least they do update or content upgrade for customers, such as Embertone and Orchestral Tools, people can receive updates 1.6 and 2.0 for free! They do re-recordings for contents!

Look at VSL this time, just nothing, maybe they are so proud and so happy with their new products, but that does not apply to us as unsatisfied customers who pre-ordered for Sys 1.

PR strategy taken by VSL this time is a big failure, and I doubt it can be fixed in the future.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> As far as I can see, Synchron Strings I is almost a complete failure. (With the exception of the Short Articulations, which sound great). Synchron Player is another failure. It is a big step backwards from their VI-Pro 2. It offers nothing new, but rather offers less functionality, and is not intuitive/logical to use, maybe I'm wrong, if I am, please enlighten me about Synchron Player.



SyS1 are a very good string library, this is my opinion and I just can't lie about that so very sorry to disappoint you,

I have campard them to ather well known librarys and to me SyS comes out on top, with sound tone and playability, so this could be the style I use string librarys so I am not trying to contradict you and others, as I am aware that the whole world does not like the product., I find that I am able to sculpt and do what I want with them far more than other products, 

As for the new player, it is very useful but it is broken so that is disappointing, I have sent a ticket to VSL who acknowledge the bug, and that it would be fixed in an update, but until that update it has become unuserble until that fix, but in truth there really is no great need to jump from the instrument to the new player and an upgrade to instrument Pro is perhaps a better option and can give you even better usage out of SyS 1

All in all if I was to do it again blindly if I could not get dimension strings I would go for SyS 1 as the most capable VSL library,

For me it just works well, but I do understand not every one works the same way. 

My honest opinion


----------



## CT

antcarrier said:


> The problem with attracting users to the classic libraries I feel is that you really need to buy 3 separate ($$$) products to get it working the way you imagine it should sound (lib + mir/mirx + vi pro).



Yes. If VSL would phase-align their classic brass and woodwind dynamics, and streamline their convoluted and pricey library scheme as you describe, I'm sure I would not be the only one extremely interested. Their strings, however... I'm comfortable looking elsewhere.


----------



## HBen

miket said:


> Yes. If VSL would phase-align their classic brass and woodwind dynamics, and streamline their convoluted and pricey library scheme as you describe, I'm sure I would not be the only one extremely interested. Their strings, however... I'm comfortable looking elsewhere.



Their Synchron FX Strings I and Synchron Yamaha CFX are nice products to use, but for Synchron Strings, I just give up using this product, and I am going somewhere else with you. My money was wasted on this, but that's fine, not every purchase can be a happy buy, that's how life goes, I have learned to accept that cruel fact.


----------



## mobileavatar

HBen said:


> My money was wasted on this, but that's fine, not every purchase can be a happy buy, that's how life goes, I have learned to accept that cruel fact.



I agree. C'est la vie, but I am extremely disturbed by VSL's arrogance of pure irresponsiveness - irresponsibility of the worst kind.


----------



## Ben

I think they try to be more defensive after the marketing fail with the delayed Synchron Player: they don't make any promises to fix anything, but I think they are working on something (maybe an update by the time when they release SS II?).


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

There's nothing they could say. What are they supposed to do? Publicly admit that their product isn't any good just to give the complainers a moment of satisfaction? That would only draw out the pitchfork mob. Can't do that.

Say that you're working on improvements? Even if you are - there's so many opinions and expectations. Talking about it is setting yourself up for another backlash and even more disappointment.


----------



## HBen

Ben said:


> I think they try to be more defensive after the marketing fail with the delayed Synchron Player: they don't make any promises to fix anything, but I think they are working on something (maybe an update by the time when they release SS II?).



I really hope VSL can slam my face by doing that, a breathtaking Synchron Strings 2 and a big content upgrade for Synchron Strings 1.

As a library developer, if you screwed up for 1.0 version, it does not hurt to release version 1.5, 2.0, and 2.5 updates for a product. I really hope they can do this, like other developers did. If it takes much time, I am happy to wait. It's even no bother to wait for one more year for that. However, we hear nothing about this. We do not know whether it's going to be updated or remained as the same.

Considering its brand value, VSL worth one more time of my patience. and I will see what's going to be released later for their Synchron Product Line. If Synchron Strings 2 sounds like the same way as of that SyS 1, I would simply just walk away.


----------



## Tfis

They just should add a better mixer section to vipro, instead of developing a new sample player.

I still had not the time to write a little piece with SyS, so at the moment I can't say if they are bad (I like to form an opinion by myself).
But: I haven't heard any demos which sound good. Execept Guy Bacos' demos. But they don't count (as all manufacturer demos), they are taylor made and prevent to show the weaknesses of the lib.

But2:
How will VSL be able to sell "Synchron Brass" or "Synchron Woodwinds", when to forums are full of complaints about Synchron Strings?


----------



## muziksculp

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> There's nothing they could say. What are they supposed to do? Publicly admit that their product isn't any good just to give the complainers a moment of satisfaction? That would only draw out the pitchfork mob. Can't do that.
> 
> Say that you're working on improvements? Even if you are - there's so many opinions and expectations. Talking about it is setting yourself up for another backlash and even more disappointment.



Let's not forget that *Synchron Strings I* was VSL's first multi-mic Strings Library, it was in a way, an experimental library for them, obviously it doesn't sound great, and has multiple flaws, and issues. It is far from even being good, what VSL needs to do, is fix it, and that means re-developing most of it. I know that's not a small task, but if they want to be respected as a high-end sample library developer, that's what they need to do.

IMHO. A very general statement from VSL i.e. telling us that they will be improving Synchron Strings I in the near future is a very wise thing to do, this will calm, and please many unhappy customers, and they seriously should put the effort to re-develop most of it.


----------



## muziksculp

Tfis said:


> But: I haven't heard any demos which sound good.



And that's simply because the library is not up to it.


----------



## HBen

Tfis said:


> They just should add a better mixer section to vipro, instead of developing a new sample player.
> 
> I still had not the time to write a little piece with SyS, so at the moment I can't say if they are bad (I like to form an opinion by myself).
> But: I haven't heard any demos which sound good. Execept Guy Bacos' demos. But they don't count (as all manufacturer demos), they are taylor made and prevent to show the weaknesses of the lib.
> 
> But2:
> How will VSL be able to sell "Synchron Brass" or "Synchron Woodwinds", when to forums are full of complaints about Synchron Strings?



VSL did a good job on Yamaha CFX and FX Strings I, maybe they can do the same good job on Brass and Woodwinds. They just failed to handle Strings I this time, and they keep silent when the mob gathered in the forum to complain.


----------



## muziksculp

Talking about more bad deicisions, VSL went forward and released their Synchronized Chamber Strings, instead of improving Synchron Strings I.

They should first improve Synchron Strings I, then develop Synchron Chamber Strings instead of Syncrhonizing their original Chamber Strings. Which also did not get a warm reception from many users, many users prefer the original Chamber Strings over the Synchronized Chamber Strings.


----------



## HBen

muziksculp said:


> Let's not forget that *Synchron Strings I* was VSL's first multi-mic Strings Library, it was in a way, an experimental library for them, obviously it doesn't sound great, and has multiple flaws, and issues. It is far from even being good, what VSL needs to do, is fix it, and that means re-developing most of it. I know that's not a small task, but if they want to be respected as a high-end sample library developer, that's what they need to do.
> 
> IMHO. A very general statement from VSL i.e. telling us that they will be improving Synchron Strings I in the near future is a very wise thing to do, this will calm, and please many unhappy customers, and they seriously should put the effort to re-develop most of it.



Exactly, Synchron Strings 1 failed to deliver what it's promised for us, it's a false advertisement, and IMHO, some parts of contents are seriously below the average of the market. I know this may sound harsh and somehow a little bit personally. But, hey, not only myself, not only one person, it's many people out there share the same feeling, so there must be something wrong with it.

When some people say SyS 1 is a product, I questioned myself, is that so? I would go back to check demos, and play the library by myself, however, the sound for some content parts, they are just synthy and fake to me. This fact is just being proved over and over again.

Only shorts articulations are excellent, everyone likes it. No complains.


----------



## Ben

muziksculp said:


> Talking about more bad deicisions, VSL went forward and released their Synchronized Chamber Strings, instead of improving Synchron Strings I.


I think they are working on multiple projects at the same time, just like other software companies do. And some projects are easier and faster then others. Who knows, maybe they are already hard-working on SS improvements but synch. Cham. Strings were faster?


----------



## muziksculp

Ben said:


> I think they are working on multiple projects at the same time, just like other software companies do. And some projects are easier and faster then others. Who knows, maybe they are already hard-working on SS improvements but synch. Cham. Strings were faster?



Maybe, Maybe not. Only time will tell. 

I still feel they have their priorities mixed up, and are not doing themselves any favors by ignoring all the complaints, and negative feedback, and comments from users.


----------



## Salorom

I just completed a few projects using the Synchron libraries extensively. The Strings shorts are a pleasure to work with. I managed beautiful textures with FX Strings, and the CFX is also a joy to use. I effortlessly achieved clear and defined mixes where everything blends and glues well.

There is so much potential for the Synchron line.


----------



## HBen

VSL sold you a product that is failed to deliver what it's promised with flawed contents, and now they are selling you another product


Salorom said:


> I just completed a few projects using the Synchron libraries extensively. The Strings shorts are a pleasure to work with. I managed beautiful textures with FX Strings, and the CFX is also a joy to use. I effortlessly achieved clear and defined mixes where everything blends and glues well.
> 
> There is so much potential for the Synchron line.



Yes, these are bright sides for the Synchron line. That's why we wish VSL can fix bad parts of Synchron Strings I. Otherwise, it's crippled forever.


----------



## richhickey

muziksculp said:


> Well, I was curious to know what VSL Synchron Player's Tree Structure offers that is an improvement over the Matrix System of VI-Pro 2 ? I personally don't see any specific improvement/s except that the Synchron Patches have full names, and are easier to find/organize in the tree. But that could have easily been done in a Matrix System.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this ?



I think the tree system is a bad idea. Instead of the fixed 3-D (matrix/X/Y) of VI Pro you now have arbitrary and varying depth trees. One way to think about it is: every articulation has an address. In VIPro that's always M.X.Y, in syn player it's a.b.c.d...N Now you assign 5-6 CCs or whatever to the different depths. Where will you be when you change the 'b' CC? In the matrix system you could _see_ in advance where you'll end up (if within the same matrix). What if you're on an articulation that uses a.b.c and move to one that uses a.b.c.d.e - where did you leave e? Fancy rules for what happens are hard to predict/remember and impossible to see.

I guess they are emphasizing some potential fluidity for live playing but that will require a) extensive tree design and controller mapping and b) lots of experience to gain the muscle memory to be fluid. And even if you can do that, what do you end up with in your DAW? A ton of CC's and no hope in correlating them to sounds, and an editing nightmare. Never mind trying to enter CC/switches directly into the DAW. Perhaps they presume everyone using a DAW directly just sets things up in the UI and then triggers the UI's send-MIDI? It still makes a mess.

In fact, the 3-D system of VI Pro is _already_ a challenge for DAW use. I wish the player had a 1-D mode, just named slots in a (sometimes long) list triggered by a single CC or program change. A second dimension, if any, would only be something automatic like speed/velocity. This would be more in line with Spitfire's UACC, and, even if not universal, would be a lot easier to manage in a DAW when editing directly or assigning to articulation/expression maps. For most of their instruments, a majority of the articulations would fit in one list.

As it stands, multi-dimensional articulation addressing adds complexity everywhere down the line - editing, articulation systems (Logic's can't yet send multi CC) etc.

VSL already has so many great samples and tools, which I value highly. Some of them present real challenges for ease-of-use (tons of articulations) but are part of what makes them great. If they want to become more approachable while still delivering on their core value propositions (dry samples, MIR) I think they should consider:


Include some flavor of MIR/x so it's not an additional thing without which everyone struggles.
Add a 1-D mode to the VIPro player, with lots of well-considered and uniform presets for their existing libs.
Extensively embrace and support the articulation systems of every major DAW/Notation program that has one.
Synchron concerns me. Does VSL think dry samples are over? I don't.


----------



## Ben

richhickey said:


> Does VSL think dry samples are over? I don't.


They said there will be more dry libraries. And they are still working on MIR Pro.

I think they chose the tree structure for the complex crossfades over multiple stages. This can't be done with VI.
But if you are not using them the 2d matix is better to handle imo.

Hopefully they add some of the performance improvements from the synchron Player to VI Pro, or add all missing functionalities of VI and a matrix mode to it + compatibility with old libraries.


----------



## Eptesicus

HBen said:


> Exactly, Synchron Strings 1 failed to deliver what it's promised for us, it's a false advertisement, and IMHO, some parts of contents are seriously below the average of the market. I know this may sound harsh and somehow a little bit personally. But, hey, not only myself, not only one person, it's many people out there share the same feeling, so there must be something wrong with it.
> 
> When some people say SyS 1 is a product, I questioned myself, is that so? I would go back to check demos, and play the library by myself, however, the sound for some content parts, they are just synthy and fake to me. This fact is just being proved over and over again.
> 
> Only shorts articulations are excellent, everyone likes it. No complains.



Agreed.

I am still royally ******* off that i wasted money on this as their advertisment of it was nothing short of completely false.

_
"With Synchron Strings I, we have achieved the ultimate in realism and expressiveness, while providing a new level of ease-of-use."

*"Performance Legato Re-invented*

Bringing together new recording techniques and innovative algorithms tailored to recordings on a scoring stage, Vienna’s revolutionary Legato Performances excel with a newly heightened realism."_

Both of those claims are demonstrably false.

The library has been met with universal criticism, yet they just stay silent and do nothing or say anything about it.


----------



## pavolbrezina

I completely skip this synchron series. I knew that with Dimension series they achieved maximum with sampling. I think that synchron series is for beginners that do not want or do not know how to work with very complex articulation matrices. I just think they selling less and less in recent years because more people want to do music just with one click. 

I try to do my own classical composition that has 20 minutes using VSL and this took mi one year of work from scratch to mastering. Incredible time consuming process. Who has time to do this?

But I just dont think that simplified synchron series is right way for VSL.


----------



## Tice

To me VSL is absolute control. Stray from that design philosophy in favor of ease of use and you lose the primary reason for choosing VSL over other companies. Part of that absolute control means having dry samples. If they go the spitfire route and start focussing on recording in their concert hall, then they tread on someone else's turf and it won't play out well for them, I reckon.


----------



## al_net77

Tice said:


> If they go the spitfire route and start focussing on recording in their concert hall



They surely will, they bought the Synchron Stage and need a return from the investment...


----------



## pavolbrezina

al_net77 said:


> They surely will, they bought the Synchron Stage and need a return from the investment...



be aware that synchron stage was not build for creating samples, it is high tech facility mainly fore recording soundtracks, they working 24/7 on this. Less time is for sampling. I was there, the facility is like out of this world, astonishing


----------



## Salorom

I’ve used plenty of VSL before Synchron and in my opinion they should definitely try and go the wet route because it’s different, and because it works if done well.

Silent stage means a bit more flexible, a bit less organic. I totally want to hear their take on more organic. They got it wrong with SS1 but the rest is stunning.

As to where their priorities lie regarding the Synchron endeavour, VSL set out to reconcile the recording of soundtracks and libraries from the get go. When working on the latter most of the time is spent editing/scripting, which is obviously done elsewhere by a different team. Recording the samples is a matter of days, if not hours.


----------



## Tice

Can't we have the best of both worlds? Can't we have a separate dry library and a wet one of their entire range?


----------



## pavolbrezina

Salorom said:


> When working on the latter most of the time is spent editing/scripting, which is obviously done elsewhere by a different team. Recording the samples is a matter of days, if not hours.



it is done in that same building where is Synchron stage. They have various edit/programming rooms. Everything is connected via Dante, so for example if editor in room 1 wants to record something he just calls someone in main room and setup recordings literary in minutes. This is huge!


----------



## al_net77

pavolbrezina said:


> be aware that synchron stage was not build for creating samples, it is high tech facility mainly fore recording soundtracks, they working 24/7 on this. Less time is for sampling.



Surely, but when you own a stage you don't want to hire another to record your samples...


----------



## muziksculp

Paul/VSL posted on their forums, that we can expect some new features to be added to the Synchron Player, and the release of the Synchron Percussion Player during Sept. 

So far, there is no mention of any specific plans to improve Synchron Strings I. 

I also wonder what their next Synchron library release will be.


----------



## Eptesicus

muziksculp said:


> I also wonder what their next Synchron library release will be.



Meh. The Synchron range is dead to me if the strings aren't right. With it being a wet library with all the room ambience it would have been optimal to have all sections as a complete and coherent orchestra.

if the strings are broken then what is the point?


----------



## muziksculp

Eptesicus said:


> Meh. The Synchron range is dead to me if the strings aren't right. With it being a wet library with all the room ambience it would have been optimal to have all sections as a complete and coherent orchestra.
> 
> if the strings are broken then what is the point?



I agree. I have already black-listed the entire VSL Synchron Library line, unless they fix their Strings. but that doesn't look like it is going to happen. I'm just curious where VSL is heading next with Synchron Libraries. I also find it odd that they still don't have the Synchron Perc. Player.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

i like 'em.


----------



## Vischebaste

Oh Robb_ins_! I thought you meant that awful string library - what's his name, Harold Robinson?


----------



## romantic

Thread is back ...
Btw, I really enjoy VSO


----------



## Sovereign

Saxer said:


> Thanks for posting the score!
> 
> Here is an example with Synchron Strings.
> 
> Rise Of The Guardians Soundtrack Prelude - Syncron Strings.mp3
> 
> The original sounds different because it is probably played with sordinos. And it's bit hard to do the polyphonic stuff without legatos in 2nd violins and violas so I replaced the moving parts of them with copies of violin 1. Same for the divisi parts. The VI Pro player has polyphonic legato but for voice separation it's better to have individual CC curves.


Sorry for bumping this old post (and thread). I revisited this with the latest Synchron cantabile patches. Would be unfair of me IMO not to update this since VSL did try their best with their update. So here's my 2019 version, which IMO compares favourably I think to the CSS version and the original I posted here. Too bad there's no portamento though in Synchron.


----------



## Michael Antrum

@Sovereign

Actaully I'm rather glad you did. I recently bought the VSL Synchronised Special Editions Bundle 1-4 and then added SE5. It was my first VSL library, and I'm really liking it. So I sprang for the upgrade to the synchronised woodwinds and find I'm liking it even more.

Anyway, I read all about the initial reception Synchron strings received at launch, but also that it has been updated and improved. Now I know you were one of those who had some very harsh words for VSL about this library - but this new post seems to imply that you have changed your mind somewhat about this library.

The point is that I can pick up Synchron Strings for £ 300 before the end of the month, and as I'm rather liking my other Synchron libraries I'm wondering what your thoughts are on it as it stands now.

Appreciate any advice...


Michael


----------



## daviddln

They have re-edited all the legato patches with the last update. So now, the legato is comparable to the one from Dimension Strings. So if you like it in SY-zed SE Vol 5, you'll probably like Synchron Strings I. And if you don't, you can request a refund within 30 days.


----------



## mikeh-375

Sovereign said:


> Sorry for bumping this old post (and thread). I revisited this with the latest Synchron cantabile patches. Would be unfair of me IMO not to update this since VSL did try their best with their update. So here's my 2019 version, which IMO compares favourably I think to the CSS version and the original I posted here. Too bad there's no portamento though in Synchron.



Nice cue @Sovereign...making me think twice about the product....


----------



## Sovereign

Michael Antrum said:


> @Sovereign
> Anyway, I read all about the initial reception Synchron strings received at launch, but also that it has been updated and improved. Now I know you were one of those who had some very harsh words for VSL about this library - but this new post seems to imply that you have changed your mind somewhat about this library.


I have changed my mind a bit, yes. I had it shelved for quite a while, disappointed as I was. Previously I would not have recommended it, but with the changes they made that's not something I would say anymore. If you like the other Synchron(ized) products I think you will like this one also.


----------



## Salorom

I wouldn’t buy Synchron Strings I just now. The cantabile update is a welcomed one but this library is still not where it should be in my opinion. I’d wait for these updates:

Proper sforzato
Proper portamento
Proper crescendo/diminuendo
Agile “cantabile” legato
Loose pizzicato, staccato, spiccato (I’m not holding my breath)

In short, new recordings that bring Synchron Strings I closer to the organic tone and feel of their Synchron FX Strings counterparts, which really sound lovely.


----------



## mikeh-375

I just went and listened to some demos and was put off again!!! The Albonini didn't do it for me..


----------



## Sovereign

Salorom said:


> I wouldn’t buy Synchron Strings I just now. The cantabile update is a welcomed one but this library is still not where it should be in my opinion. I’d wait for these updates:
> 
> Proper sforzato
> Proper portamento
> Proper crescendo/diminuendo
> Agile “cantabile” legato
> Loose pizzicato, staccato, spiccato (I’m not holding my breath)
> 
> In short, new recordings that bring Synchron Strings I closer to the organic tone and feel of their Synchron FX Strings counterparts, which really sound lovely.


I'm just not sure that update is ever coming? Saved for Synchron Strings volume 2? I wish there were more new recordings, just like you.


----------



## Salorom

Sovereign said:


> I'm just not sure that update is ever coming? Saved for Synchron Strings volume 2? I wish there were more new recordings, just like you.



The cantabiles update proves VSL is listening and willing to improve this library where it falls short, don’t you think?

I’m hoping they will continue, because SS could really be an amazing product. The quality of the recordings is in its own league...


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## Michael Antrum

mmmm.... Still leaves me in two minds....


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## Eloy

Sovereign said:


> Sorry for bumping this old post (and thread). I revisited this with the latest Synchron cantabile patches. Would be unfair of me IMO not to update this since VSL did try their best with their update. So here's my 2019 version, which IMO compares favourably I think to the CSS version and the original I posted here. Too bad there's no portamento though in Synchron.


Sovereign,
Your Cantabile Synchron strings example sounds beautiful. I mix the Orchestral legato/portamento (VI version) with the Synchron player. However, my Mac Pro CPU starts popping and crackling (no matter what settings I use) when a full template is loaded with Synchron and VI Pro through VEP (this does not happen when loading over 100 tracks using VI series) . Thus I use the Cantabile strings sparingly. Do you find this an issue?


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## Sovereign

Eloy said:


> Sovereign,
> Your Cantabile Synchron strings example sounds beautiful. I mix the Orchestral legato/portamento (VI version) with the Synchron player. However, my Mac Pro CPU starts popping and crackling (no matter what settings I use) when a full template is loaded with Synchron and VI Pro through VEP (this does not happen when loading over 100 tracks using VI series) . Thus I use the Cantabile strings sparingly. Do you find this an issue?


No, I have no real performance issues. The problem could be due to a number of things, without knowing how many voices are playing and what your computer specs are it's difficult to say. VSL support would be best equipped to help you here I suppose.


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## novaburst

Salorom said:


> The cantabiles update



While this is a good addition to the Synchron Strings, what is confusing is why VSL did not bring the update to the VI version 

Firstly Synchron Strings was developed in the VI and was based upon the VI engine and code and for quite a while the VI was being used as the primary player for Synchron Strings, surely VSL could not have been thinking every one would just give up and dump such a great and advanced, and stable player and suddenly take the new player in its place and for such a nice library as Synchron Strings. 

I noticed the new Dimention Strings addition was developed for the new player and the VI player, so I think it's only reasonable for VSL to bring every update and additional content for Synchron Strings for both the the new player and the more advanced VI player. 

As from where I am standing it's not making a lot of sense especially for users who would like to remain using the VI player for all the VSL library's.


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## Michael Antrum

I get the impression that Synchron player is now the future for them, and to an extent see the old VI Player the past. I'm sure they will continue to support it - but I think the development on players will now be focussed on the Synchron player.

Or at least that's how I see it.

It's funny that the three biggest developers, VSL, OT & Spitfire are all in the throes of player engine development all at the same time....

I'm really tempted to pick up Synchron Strings FX..... and I've just been listening to it....


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## Salorom

The only orchestral libraries I have been investing money in lately are the Synchron ones. The quality of the recordings and the software development are the best I have seen.

Hopefully VSL will fix Synchron Strings I soon, I sincerely think not doing so jeopardises this beautiful project.


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## novaburst

Michael Antrum said:


> get the impression that Synchron player is now the future for them, and to see extent the old VI Player the past.



Yes and this is a fair comment there is nothing wrong with that but its also clear IMO that the new player needs more work to catch up with the VI, plus there is a very realistic view that the older library's are just as good if not better than the Synchron version and will remain there, I do understand yes we all need to move on but what about preference of tone and sound for the older or none Synchron library's that sound very warm when played up against the new player,

VSL can't force everyone into Synchron avenue when the offering is not good as the existing library's 

New users yes a new generation yes that's OK and reasonable and also makes sense but for users who know and understand the deep quality of none Synchron development I think there will be a lot of conflict especially when the new offering is not knocking the old offering off the shelf anytime soon. 

So at least until that time comes VSL should give us the option of choice and not force us into one choice.


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## Michael Antrum

In the end I decide to buy it. I watched the demos multiple times, and listened to everything I could, and I decide to go fore both the Synchron Strings I Standard, but also the FX Standard as well.

I do hope haven't made a mistake, but I don't think I have. I do like the sound and the player engine. The FX library sounds stunning, and I'm very much looking forward to have a good run through the library over the weekend. (I hope Best Service manage to get the order put through and the codes before the end of the day.)

I was looking through the classifieds, and there are a few second hand copies there, but with the sale and the fact i'm VAT registered, buying new is less expensive than the asking prices there, and I wouldn't to upset anyone with what they might see as a lowball offer.


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## Gil

Michael Antrum said:


> In the end I decide to buy it. I watched the demos multiple times, and listened to everything I could, and I decide to go fore both the Synchron Strings I Standard, but also the FX Standard as well.
> 
> I do hope haven't made a mistake, but I don't think I have. I do like the sound and the player engine. The FX library sounds stunning, and I'm very much looking forward to have a good run through the library over the weekend. (I hope Best Service manage to get the order put through and the codes before the end of the day.)
> 
> I was looking through the classifieds, and there are a few second hand copies there, but with the sale and the fact i'm VAT registered, buying new is less expensive than the asking prices there, and I wouldn't to upset anyone with what they might see as a lowball offer.


Hello @Michael Antrum,
After a few months and a few Synchron Player (and library?) updates, would you mind share with us your thoughts about Synchron Strings I please? 
Thanks!


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## Michael Antrum

Well, the Synchron Strings had a difficult birth, and there was a lot of ill will around at the time, so there is a lot of historical negativity around this thread - but I think a fair bit of that is now out of date.

I am actually loath to recommend to buy or not buy any library, as, particularly with string libraries, they are so personal. It's like picking a new shirt out for someone. So with that Caveat Emptor in mind....

For me, with Synchron Strings, here's my thoughts - The shorts are particularly good - I like them very much and feel they are the strong point of the library. The longs are fine, without setting the world on fire, and the Cantabile is very nice indeed, but not so much for faster tempo lines. The mic positions (I have standard) are good enough for what I need, I don't really feel the need for the extra mics in the full library. I have managed to use the mics to get anything I've really wanted out of them, but then, I'm normally fitting them in with other Synchron libraries. If I didn't have it, I would buy it again, but would be happy to wait for it to be on sale or such like.

Which brings me onto other things - since buying Synchron Strings I, I have also picked up during various special offers and 4 for 3 vouchers, Chamber, Dimension and this month I finally bought Appassionata Strings.

I am loving Appassionata strings - it's perfect for that lush John Barry sound (Out of Africa, Born Free, Dances with Wolves and Bond). But if you don't want that sound, well, it's a bit big.

Dimension is more about the writing to me. As I am learning more and more about orchestration, Dimension Strings enables me to write for standard sections, divisi, desks and individual players. It's a bit wow working like that - but I don't normally need to write that level of control. But it does sound great to me too.

The thing is this, with VSL's return policy, you don't have to trust anyone else's judgement but your own. I've had very little contact with the people at VSL, but when I have, they've been great. So if you buy from VSL directly, you will have the certainty that if you don't like it, VSL will either refund you, or swap the library out for one you do like. I don't think you can go too far wrong with that.

So go with your gut on this, in the knowledge that if you make a faux pas, unlike many other vendors, you won't get lumbered if you make an error in your selection.


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