# Amp simulators for djent and modern metal



## oepion (Nov 24, 2020)

I've been using Positive Grid Bias FX 2 (also have Bias Amp 2) as an amp simulator for a little while now. There are some pretty good presets but I feel like it's hard to come across presets that work well with djent / downtuned stuff and 8 string guitars. The preset I'm using mainly is called Modern Metal and it sounds pretty good, but it still does not sound as nice as Periphery or Architect's sound.

I have tried Neural DSP's Archetype Nolly thinking it may work better since it was designed by Nolly himself, but I was really surprised to find that none of the factory presets sounds as good as Bias FX Modern Metal.

I'm comparing the sound simply jamming with the guitar, no mixing/mastering or double tracking.

Is anyone else here making djent or like the modern metal sound? What are you using? For those using Neural DSP AN, I've heard it is supposed to be so much better than Bias FX 2, what am I missing?

Thanks for the help!


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## hessproject (Nov 24, 2020)

I'm a big fan of Helix Native, although I'm biased because I used a hardware Helix with my band so I could just move my presets straight over. I also play a 7 string not an 8 string so take that into account. But I'm really happy with the sounds for pretty much all metal stuff. 

The out of the box presets aren't great, but because of the popularity of the hardware there are a lot of online communities with people making presets and custom IRs (some for free, some not so free) which are awesome


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## Tom Ferguson (Nov 25, 2020)

Tonality - Will Putney is pretty hench if you want some really high gain tones. 

Generally the consensus is that Neural DSP stuff is the way to go though. If Archetype Nolly isn't working for you, you might want to make sure you have your input gain set right for the plugin. Other than that I'm not 100%. Generally it's best to forget the presets and tune it to your instrument instead as every guitar is different. Especially important if your guitar is a bit cheap and needs some sculpting. EQ before the amp sim could help. Maybe try some different boost pedals? It might just be a taste thing though I guess.


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## Monkberry (Nov 25, 2020)

I have to agree with Tom Ferguson. The Neural DSP sims should get you there (not including Cory Wong) but the guitar pickups play a huge part as well as eq and input source. I typically spend time comparing amp sims with 2 Strandbergs, a Gibson 335, a Strat with Lolar pickups and a Carvin just to see which guitars work best. It's surprising how hit and miss it can be. I also have Bias 2FX with all the expansions and although there are some great options, I tend to have a few that I may use but I like the quickness of the Neural DSP sims. You might want to check out Plugin Alliance's Dual Rectifier sim. They have a 14 day trial and a bunch of other amp sims (Friedman, ENGL, Diezel, Fuchs, Orange) that I personally didn't get along with but your experience may be different.


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## blackzeroaudio (Nov 25, 2020)

I think if you're going amp sim route the STL Tone Hub is the way to go. Lotta good options and tone packs there. 

I don't dislike the Neural stuff, I just personally didn't get along with it for what I was going after.


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## merty (Nov 25, 2020)

Djent tone likes pickups with mid.s, basically try eq'ing your neck pu to sound like a bridge then switch to the bridge PU :D

Seriously, try this as thats how PU's marketed for djent sound to me


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## Dex (Nov 25, 2020)

I've been demoing the neural amps these last few days and I have to say I am also not really feeling the Nolly amp. Their Fortin Nameless amp seems really good though - maybe try that one.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 25, 2020)

I've tried most - ToneHub for me - the Tonalities are great too.

Surprisingly, Helix 3 gives great results with a little effort and learning.

ML Sound has some cute apps.

I own most of the Neural DSP sims - got swept up in the frenzy.

Honestly, I find them unusable for my application. I really can't stand using them.

I'd dump them, but like most software these days, cheaper to keep 'em.


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## MartinH. (Nov 25, 2020)

oepion said:


> I'm comparing the sound simply jamming with the guitar, no mixing/mastering or double tracking.



That's not a good method imho, you should have everything else in place and recorded so that you can really focus on dialing in the sound.

I've made 100+ amp signal chains and disliked most of them. Then I downloaded some di and backing tracks by "Lasse and Mago" (google that) and tried my chains on those and was surprised that suddenly a lot of my setups sounded fine. 
I do think though, that part of the problem is that it's much harder to dial in a nice sound on a "double-drop" tuning, than on a regular guitar tuning. 


This guy tested a lot of free sims but I never was able to get the sound he got out of them:








resington


A channel for fans of metal and guitar playing. Plenty of that and not much else. Thanks for clicking.




www.youtube.com





Turns out the effects on the master bus, combined with drums and bass also make a huge difference. If you don't have a lot of experience you can't judge a guitar tone in isolation imho. At least I can't.

How many third party cab IRs have you tried? There are hundreds out there, both free and paid. And imho they make more of a difference than the amp itself. I recommend leaving all dials at noon on the amp, then trying out all IRs that you have, and only then starting to tweak the amp. If you haven't done that yet, give it a try. Also much cheaper than buying ampsims.



I'm attaching a sample of the tone I liked the most so far, from all those that I tried. But it's still far from perfect I'd say.

It's made with Mercurial Greed Smasher (free pedal), x30 from TSE x50 v2 (on sale right now I think), and a 3rd party IR that I'm not sure you can buy anymore (Messiah2 from the messiah impulse pack).


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## Trash Panda (Nov 25, 2020)

If you're going the paid VST route, Helix Native and the non-archetype Neural DPS sims are likely your best bet. I bought all the Bias FX suite and don't have them installed anymore after using Helix and Neural plugins.

If you're open to trying a free option first, Ignite Amps Emissary is still one of the best guitar amp sims out there. Choose your preset, flip on the shape switch above the hi-mids, add a noise gate, Boom. Instant djent tone, even out of a Les Paul.









IGNITE AMPS - Engineering for the moshpit


Italian tube and solid state amplifiers, stomp-boxes and audio plug-ins




www.igniteamps.com





Also don't underestimate the impact the cab IR has on your tone. Best advice I ever followed was finding an IR I like first, then play with amp sims and EQ/effects afterwards.


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## MartinH. (Nov 25, 2020)

P.S.: Any recommendations how to get closer to this guitar tone? 




And I'm interested in what (other than EQ, multiband compression and gating) can be sensibly done to the DI signal before it hits the first pedal/amp in the chain. I've only started experimenting with messing with the DI signal, but it makes a huge difference to the sound.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 25, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> P.S.: Any recommendations how to get closer to this guitar tone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Double or quad tracking gets you that huge, really thick sound with less distortion required. If you can play tightly and consistently, start there.


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## Tom Ferguson (Nov 25, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> P.S.: Any recommendations how to get closer to this guitar tone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The way to have a good guitar tone like that is to... have a good bass tone 

Seriously, most of what makes a good metal guitar tone is the bass. Probably the biggest beginner guitar tone mistake (other than too much gain) is trying to make the guitar sound like a double tracked guitar with bass.

Here is a good demo of how to get a pretty banging bass tone: 

Although this is a bit noisy and way too high gain for what you are going for, this might give you an idea about how to use the boost and EQ before the amp, just tone down the amps treble and gain and the EQs mids maybe. You'll have to find what seems to work well for your guitar.


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## Tom Ferguson (Nov 25, 2020)

And yes, what The Serinator said about IRs is legit. A shitty IR will make any amp sound rubbish. IRs are completely make or break and totally change how saturated, full, powerful, gain-y etc the amp sounds. Although you still need a decent amp sim, as long as it's an alright amp with enough gain and clarity etc, it doesn't really matter the specifics so much. The IR is what really gives the amp 90% of the sound!

Also make sure to play (very) hard, consistent and cleanly. A good guitar tone can only do so much if you are picking softly with loads of noise etc. Make sure all the extraneous squeaks, ringing strings, scratchy picking (try and get you pick relatively parallel to the string for that doom kinda tone IMO) is neutralised as much as possible.

Your x30 guitar clip sounds not too bad really, but you could do with picking about 20-30+% harder if you want to get the most out of that tone! Plus in a mix, you'll probably want to HP filter out a load of that low end as that's where the bass is going to be doing it's magic (bass will always win that fight) and the guitar is just going to be muddying it up.


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## MartinH. (Nov 26, 2020)

The Serinator said:


> Double or quad tracking gets you that huge, really thick sound with less distortion required. If you can play tightly and consistently, start there.





Tom Ferguson said:


> The way to have a good guitar tone like that is to... have a good bass tone
> 
> Seriously, most of what makes a good metal guitar tone is the bass. Probably the biggest beginner guitar tone mistake (other than too much gain) is trying to make the guitar sound like a double tracked guitar with bass.
> 
> ...




Thanks a lot for the help guys! I tried quad- instead of double tracking yesterday, but that didn't seem to be the answer. That bass tone tutorial was great, I don't think I've seen that one before. Similar ones maybe, but he explained the reasons for his choices much better than most that I've seen. I looked for an IR of the cab that he used and I think this is working much better than what I had before. I don't have fabfilter saturn, so I used the Ozone exciter instead. The second video I've seen before, probably twice. 

I'm definitely guilty of trying to make the guitars sound like guitar and bass, and neglecting to have the drums and master limiter set up before tweaking the guitar sound. I know this is the wrong approach, but somehow I still often get sucked into that bad habbit. :-/

I've spent a lot of time experimenting with different settings and piled up more and more plugins, until I started a new Reaper project and re-built a much more streamlined template to mock up a riff from the "rip and tear" track. It's not perfect yet, but it's closer than I've ever gotten I believe. What do you guys think? 

Definitely helps to have a clearer goal and mixing into a limiter that gets it up to the loudness of the reference track. And it also makes visual comparisons in SPAN much more useful. I think I'm finally moving in the right direction, at least if I don't have another one of those "what was I thinking" moments when I listen to it tomorrow with fresher ears .

The first third of the file is the original reference track, the last two thirds are my attempt to mock it up with Shreddage 3, DC Chronos and the Restrains drumkit from Panda Sound. It's only drop-A, so the 8-string stuff will require a different setup.


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