# BBO Neptune & Orion: Woodwinds Tutti and Sections



## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)

Hi everyone!

So we start this month by releasing Big Bang Orchestra: Neptune & Orion, Tutti Woodwinds and Woodwinds Sections.


BBO: Neptune - an ensemble of 13 players, playing in unisono and in octaves - like Andromeda with or without piccolo 
1 Piccolo, 3 Flutes, 2 Oboes, 1 English Horn, 2 Clarinets in Bb, 1 Bass Clarinet, 2 Bassoons, 1 Contrabassoon
Perfectly balanced with multiple mic positions
Similar articulations to other BBOs: shorts (bold and agile - optimized for runs and ostinatos), sustains (normal, marcato, espressivo), Sforzanto, Sforzatissimo, swells short/long/soft, flutter tonguing, half and whole tone trills, fast repetitions

BBO: Orion- four separat woodwind sections - 3 Flutes, 3 Oboes, 3 Clarinets in Bb, 3 Bassoons
Similar articulations as Neptune + real legatos
Easy to blend with BBO: Neptune, thanks to optional section spot-mics (bleeding)

At this point there are almost no limits what can be done with the Big Bang Orchestra series - and as usual you don't only get the "Big Bang" sound, but also the softer sides of the universe as well!


BBO: Neptune intro price: €65 (regular: €95)
BBO: Orion intro price: €115 (regular: €195)
Audio demos available here.

Let us know what you think about these installments and stay tuned for more to come!


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## Kobiy86 (Aug 4, 2020)

Sounds great! I’m trying to figure out what to get. Will there be downloadable demos to try out?


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)

Kobiy86 said:


> Sounds great! I’m trying to figure out what to get. Will there be downloadable demos to try out?


We have extended the BBO Strings intro sale - after it ends there probably will be demos available for Neptune and Orion.

And there are 30 days demos available for the SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions (currently on sale): https://www.vsl.co.at/News/2020-08_Special_Editions


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## ptram (Aug 4, 2020)

Very nice addition! I like very much that sections are separated!

But... but... wait, the library I like more also costs more! You know your customers!

Paolo


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## Marko Zirkovich (Aug 4, 2020)

ptram said:


> But... but... wait, the library I like more also costs more! You know your customers!



Hah, now we know who's to blame. Could you please stop liking the libraries so that VSL won't get funny ideas and raise their prices for future installments!


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)

The seperat sections have true legato articulations, and it's a 4in1, so there is a fair reason that it's a little bit more expensive.
Still, very much affordable for the included content and the beautiful sound!

Walkthrough and more demos are in work


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## SlHarder (Aug 4, 2020)

I'm a hobbyist with a reasonable but limited budget. I try to take an objective and structured approach to my purchases while still letting my creativity and enthusiasm have their say. I try to avoid having reason to post in the " wish I hadn't bought" threads.

The VSL 30 day demo that overlaps the BBO introductory price is working well for me. After getting the 30 day demos my first purchases in BBO were H,J,K and L,M and now will consider N,O. Splitting out the sections allows more nuances.

I like the structured, informative and not overly hyped process. It gives me time to soak up the walkthrus and reviews and then take the test drive.


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## method1 (Aug 4, 2020)

The 30 day demo is fantastic! Having that time to evaluate a product is a rare and valuable offering.
It does have one serious flaw though, the demo usually becomes permanent 

I was lucky to get a demo of Synchron Strings I which is a beautiful and unbelievably underrated instrument. I'm dreading the demo expiry.


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)

Some of you may remember the classic instrument range poster we sold many years ago.
So we thought we'd update it and give it away for free as download as well as some wallpaper versions of it.

You can download these here: https://www.vsl.co.at/de/News/2020-08_Freebies
(make sure to click the small download button beneath the right bottom corner for the high-res version).

Enjoy!


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## JEPA (Aug 4, 2020)

Ben said:


> Some of you may remember the classic instrument range poster we sold many years ago.
> So we thought we'd update it and give it away for free as download as well as some wallpaper versions of it.
> 
> You can download these here: https://www.vsl.co.at/de/News/2020-08_Freebies
> ...


Fantastic! I love the educational side of VSL!


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## Rich4747 (Aug 4, 2020)

Totally forgot about the academy. free poster. Bonus. great resources


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## Michael Stibor (Aug 4, 2020)

I’ll be honest. I don’t completely understands what these two libraries are, or what separates them from other offerings in the VSL lineup. Can someone explain it a bit more, like I’m a six year old?
Ive been looking for a decent “all in one” library where I could essentially play all of the woodwinds across the keyboard in one patch. Is that this?


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> Ive been looking for a decent “all in one” library where I could essentially play all of the woodwinds across the keyboard in one patch. Is that this?


BBO: Neptune is then the library you are looking for


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## Michael Stibor (Aug 4, 2020)

Ben said:


> BBO: Neptune is then the library you are looking for


Thanks! And then Orion is more detailed, broken into sections? Will Neptune have an abnormal amount of 'players' if I'm playing chords though?


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## axb312 (Aug 4, 2020)

Does this still need the usb elicenser?


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## Dr.Quest (Aug 4, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> Thanks! And then Orion is more detailed, broken into sections? Will Neptune have an abnormal amount of 'players' if I'm playing chords though?



BBO: Neptune- an ensemble of 13 players, playing in unisono and in octaves - like Andromeda with or without piccolo 
1 Piccolo, 3 Flutes, 2 Oboes, 1 English Horn, 2 Clarinets in Bb, 1 Bass Clarinet, 2 Bassoons, 1 Contrabassoon
Perfectly balanced with multiple mic positions
Similar articulations to other BBOs: shorts (bold and agile - optimized for runs and ostinatos), sustains (normal, marcato, espressivo), Sforzanto, Sforzatissimo, swells short/long/soft, flutter tonguing, half and whole tone trills, fast repetitions

BBO: Orion- four separat woodwind sections - 3 Flutes, 3 Oboes, 3 Clarinets in Bb, 3 Bassoons
Same articulations as Neptune + real legatos
Easy to blend with BBO: Neptune, thanks to optional section spot-mics (bleeding)


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## Michael Stibor (Aug 4, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> BBO: Neptune-
> Perfectly balanced with multiple mic positions


Thanks, I guess it was this part that I missed. I guess I'm just looking for something closer to a one patch woodwind chorale type thing, plus staccatos. More for layering behind strings/brass in an already balanced fashion. I guess Neptune might be it.


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)

axb312 said:


> Does this still need the usb elicenser?


Yes


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## JEPA (Aug 4, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> Thanks, I guess it was this part that I missed. I guess I'm just looking for something closer to a one patch woodwind chorale type thing, plus staccatos. More for layering behind strings/brass in an already balanced fashion. I guess Neptune might be it.


I could imagine you could hand make the same "universal woodwind" patch with Orion, only thing you would miss the English Horn, Bass Clarinet and Contrabasson if I am right...


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> Thanks, I guess it was this part that I missed. I guess I'm just looking for something closer to a one patch woodwind chorale type thing, plus staccatos. More for layering behind strings/brass in an already balanced fashion. I guess Neptune might be it.


Neptune can definitly do that and more. And it sounds not over the top if you play chords with it.


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## Michael Stibor (Aug 4, 2020)

Ben said:


> Neptune can definitly do that and more. And it sounds not over the top if you play chords with it.


Thanks. I’m pretty sure I’m sold. I’ve always loved VSL’s woodwinds. Just hope to eventually hear some demos or videos of just Neptune.


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## ptram (Aug 4, 2020)

Ben said:


> Easy to blend with BBO: Neptune, thanks to optional section spot-mics (bleeding)


I’m not sure I fully understand this passage. Does it mean that the mics of sections not playing, in Orion, can be left open, so that a ghost of their sound is reverberated in those spots?

Or is it happening in Neptune, where you can turn off a spot mic, but the ghost of the section not playing is in the other spot mics, and the addition of a section from Orion seems to reverberate in those mics in Neptune?

Paolo


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)

ptram said:


> I’m not sure I fully understand this passage. Does it mean that the mics of sections not playing, in Orion, can be left open, so that a ghost of their sound is reverberated in those spots?


The spot mics of the other sections were left open during recording. So you will get the speak-over effect like you would get in the spot mics when these instruments were playing at the same time.

For example Flutes (image from https://www.vsl.info/en/instruments/bbo/bbo-o):





When playing only the flutes and turing on the spot mics, you can hear the speak over signal of the flutes in the oboes, bassoons and clarinets mics.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 4, 2020)

Orion sounds wonderful, but now I am even more confused as to why the strings packs are not in sections. Is there a proper VSL string sections library that would blend especially well with the BBO brass and woods?


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## ptram (Aug 4, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> Just hope to eventually hear some demos or videos of just Neptune.


The second half of the walkthrough by Guy Bacos has some examples of Neptune alone. It can be compared to the same passages played by Orion.

Paolo


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## richhickey (Aug 4, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Orion sounds wonderful, but now I am even more confused as to why the strings packs are not in sections. Is there a proper VSL string sections library that would blend especially well with the BBO brass and woods?



Guy Bacos' BBO demos (including those for Orion) frequently use Synchron Strings I, they seem to work great together IMO.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 4, 2020)

richhickey said:


> Guy Bacos' BBO demos (including those for Orion) frequently use Synchron Strings I, they seem to work great together IMO.


I feel like VSL's product design can be overly concerned with avoiding cannibalising sales of existing products, which makes sense in a way for them but also leads to a very confusing and incoherent menu of options for the potential customer. (I do have great respect for them since acquiring a couple of their fabulous pianos.)


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## Supremo (Aug 4, 2020)

Should I save money on Orion + Neptune and go after Synchron-ized Woodwinds instead?


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)

Supremo said:


> Should I save money on Orion + Neptune and go after Synchron-ized Woodwinds instead?


Depends on what you need: Ensemble Woodwinds -> BBO: Orion and Neptune, Solo WW -> SY-ized Woodwinds


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## Supremo (Aug 4, 2020)

Thanks Ben. Any plans for the summer sale of Synchron-ized WWs? I'm eager to get them but am afraid they might get on sale right after I buy them at a full price. )


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## ptram (Aug 4, 2020)

JEPA said:


> I could imagine you could hand make the same "universal woodwind" patch with Orion, only thing you would miss the English Horn, Bass Clarinet and Contrabasson if I am right...


I wonder how English Horn and Contrabassoon patches taken from Synchronized SE would work, in a composite preset with the Orion patches. Would the Synchronized IR be available for those patches alone?

Paolo


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## Simeon (Aug 4, 2020)

Supremo said:


> Thanks Ben. Any plans for the summer sale of Synchron-ized WWs? I'm eager to get them but am afraid they might get on sale right after I buy them at a full price. )



The SYNCHRONized Special Editions are currently on sale. Volume 1 includes a selection of woodwinds. Check it out here, there is also a 30 day demo!






Volume 1 - Vienna Symphonic Library


The SYNCHRON-ized Special Edition Volume 1 (“Essential Orchestra”) features the most common orchestral instruments and articulations in a resource-saving, affordable package. It contains 28 instruments and ensembles.




www.vsl.co.at


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## JEPA (Aug 4, 2020)

ptram said:


> I wonder how English Horn and Contrabassoon patches taken from Synchronized SE would work, in a composite preset with the Orion patches. Would the Synchronized IR be available for those patches alone?
> 
> Paolo


@Ben could answer precisely this question! I don't own the Orion, but I have thought as fine as you can handle the patches individually in Synchron Player you could make your own "universal tutti woodwind" patch out of Orion, so like I've made a "tutti patch" out of Hercules, Jupiter and Kopernikus.


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## Simeon (Aug 4, 2020)

ptram said:


> I wonder how English Horn and Contrabassoon patches taken from Synchronized SE would work, in a composite preset with the Orion patches. Would the Synchronized IR be available for those patches alone?
> 
> Paolo



So the SYNCHRONized SE Vol. 1 has individual patches and individual IRs cover the placement of the Woodwinds, they just share a common highlighted placement in the image. Horns and other sections have their specialized SYNCHRON Stage IR Placements as well.


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)

Simeon said:


> So the SYNCHRONized SE Vol. 1 has individual patches and ONE IR covers the placement of the Woodwinds. Horns and other sections have their specialized SYNCHRON Stage IR Placement.


Not quite right. (almost) Each instrument has its own IR; but they share the same preview image per section


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## marco berco (Aug 4, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> Thanks. I’m pretty sure I’m sold. I’ve always loved VSL’s woodwinds. Just hope to eventually hear some demos or videos of just Neptune.


Playing too many chords in a row with woodwinds, especially when sustained is not anyways a good choice. Very good in countermelodies or short attack chords or in tutu with the orchestra.


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## Ben (Aug 4, 2020)




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## Simeon (Aug 4, 2020)

Ben said:


> Not quite right. (almost) Each instrument has its own IR; but they share the same preview image per section



Noted, and edited 😉 
Thanks @Ben


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## Michael Stibor (Aug 4, 2020)

ptram said:


> The second half of the walkthrough by Guy Bacos has some examples of Neptune alone. It can be compared to the same passages played by Orion.
> 
> Paolo


Thanks I looked for other videos. They weren’t up yet. From what I gather Neptune is more of a sketching tool. At least that’s how it’s used in his video.


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## ptram (Aug 4, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> From what I gather Neptune is more of a sketching tool. At least that’s how it’s used in his video.


It is for sure faster when sketching. In the piece by Alberghini, however, it is sometimes used for impact. Guy Bacos uses it for 'more bite'.

I'll be however very much curious to see how the combined Orion patch we were discussing here above can work. But, as noted, it would lack English Horn, Bass Clarinet and Contrabassooon.

Paolo


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Aug 5, 2020)

I wouldn't look at Neptune simply as being a "sketching tool". It's Woodwinds in tutti, which is a very useful tool to have. Of course you can build your own tutti from solo patches, but the advantage with tutti recordings is that the players actually performed together with a conductor in the same space, which will always give you a more plausible performance and sound.

Just like Andromeda gives you that "real" tutti orchestra sound, even though you could orchestrate your big tutti hits and chords all across your template using all dedicated orchestra sections, but it would never quite get you there 100%.


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## ptram (Aug 5, 2020)

There is another problem, in building a Tutti preset from the Orion sections, and it is that you have to deal with octave doubling in a limited range. It wouldn't be worth the effort.

In any case, there are now the essential tools for sketching, even without considering the other merits of the individual libraries:

- Neptune is the quick way for woodwinds.
- Lyra+Musca for strings.
- Andromeda for brass (by turning off the other spot mics, with no worries for the bleeding from the other, overpowered sections in the room mics).

The other BBO libraries can be added as the sketch grows, adding their specialties. Other VSL libraries (Synchron, Synchron-ized of VI+MIR) can be added while finishing the piece.

Paolo


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## AndyP (Aug 5, 2020)

ptram said:


> The other BBO libraries can be added as the sketch grow, adding their specialties. Other VSL libraries (Syncron, Synchron-ized of VI+MIR) can be added while finishing the piece.
> 
> Paolo


This is the way I use BBO and Synchron SE. 

I usually start with an ensemble and later split into sections.
The libraries harmonize very well, as long as you don't use the processed rooms too much in BBO. BBO is much more flexible (and also louder) in this respect.

The BBO Woodwinds also seemed to have more power than the 3 player ensembles in the SE versions.
But so far this is only a felt impression through the demos.


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## Guy Bacos (Aug 5, 2020)

You could probably compare Neptune to Lyra, I remember reading some comments saying that strings recorded in octaves is not practical, I quite disagree, if we take Lyra (high strings in octaves), there is a certain tension in the sound I really love and don't think you can get that in any other way.


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## wblaze (Aug 5, 2020)

Will Neptune blend well with Synchronized Woodwinds? 

I don't currently own any ensemble woods and am thinking that I could use Neptune to sketch out ideas or tutti parts and then use my Synchronized Woodwinds to bring out solo instruments.


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## Ben (Aug 5, 2020)




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## brett (Aug 5, 2020)

@Ben - Will 30 day demos be released for Neptune and Orion also?


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## Ben (Aug 7, 2020)

brett said:


> @Ben - Will 30 day demos be released for Neptune and Orion also?





Ben said:


> We have extended the BBO Strings intro sale - after it ends there probably will be demos available for Neptune and Orion.
> 
> And there are 30 days demos available for the SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions (currently on sale): https://www.vsl.co.at/News/2020-08_Special_Editions


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## Ben (Aug 7, 2020)




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## Ben (Aug 8, 2020)




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## jamwerks (Aug 8, 2020)

These ensembles have legato whereas the OT Ark ensembles don't!


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## markleake (Aug 8, 2020)

Wow. These woodwinds ensembles sound great... plenty of very useful articulations, very flexible microphones, etc., what's not to like here?! VSL have done such a fantastic job with the Big Bang series so far. Beyond their Synchron-ized Woods, this is the first time ever I've been so keen on a VSL series.

Downside is, I will at some point need to go through and consider which part to buy, then splash the cash... they are too great-sounding to ignore.

I really hope once all the series releases are out, that VSL offer some better to understand packages, or one overall package, or they re-offer each library again at their intro price. I find it hard to understand what all the libraries in the series are. Plus I've been holding off waiting to see what the whole series has in store for us, because it is so hard to know if I should invest while the series is still rolling out.

---

One question/suggestion I have for VSL... in Vienna Synchron Player there is the Vel. XF button, which allows dynamics with mod-wheel (CC1). Would it be possible to add another button located just above that one to tell the player to automatically switch Vel. XF on and off for you? I mean based on when you click or key-switch between a long and short articulation. This way you won't need a CC lane to tell the player to turn on/off the Vel. XF.

I have Andromeda, and this is my main complaint with the user interface & usability of the library. I'm coming from a Kontakt player background where Kontakt does this automatically for you, and it makes so much sense, because I find this is the easiest way to play these types of articulations.


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## Ben (Aug 9, 2020)

markleake said:


> Would it be possible to add another button located just above that one to tell the player to automatically switch Vel. XF on and off for you? I mean based on when you click or key-switch between a long and short articulation. This way you won't need a CC lane to tell the player to turn on/off the Vel. XF.


Yes, this is possible:

Select the slot, go to the Edit tab and change the velocity crossfade setting from "Global" to "Off".
This will override the global VelXF setting for this slot and make it senstive to key-velocity instead.





Make sure to safe the changes as user preset, so you can recall your customizations quickly.


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## ptram (Aug 9, 2020)

I've furtherly separated the ensembles in a mockup I'm working on, assigning the woodwinds (formerly various mixes from Andromeda) to Orion. Simply fantastic. BBO has become the perfect meeting point between the sketching libraries and the 'complete' ones.

However, building the final version from a sketch made with BBO could become a bit complicate: it may happen that replacing it with 'big' and 'complete' libraries will subtract something from the piece…

Paolo


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## markleake (Aug 9, 2020)

Ben said:


> Yes, this is possible:
> 
> Select the slot, go to the Edit tab and change the velocity crossfade setting from "Global" to "Off".
> This will override the global VelXF setting for this slot and make it senstive to key-velocity instead.
> ...


Thanks Ben, that is very useful to know! I'll go through and create presets like this. 

I guess it doesn't quite do away with my request though... it would be good if the XF patches were already set like this, or there was a mechanism to do this more easily/automatically in the player.


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## ptram (Aug 10, 2020)

markleake said:


> it would be good if the XF patches were already set like this, or there was a mechanism to do this more easily/automatically in the player.


I like that you can freely choose the way to control dynamics. for example, you might want to draw curves of shorts' dynamics.

If you are using the library from a DAW or notation program, you can send a CC28 message as the first part of the selection bundle in the expression map/articulation set, and choose the way to control dynamics.

With notation programs like Dorico, another way could be creating a couple techniques "VelXF On" and "VelXF Off", with different values of CC28, and add them in the score just before the passage to be controlled one way or the other.

Paolo


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## markleake (Aug 10, 2020)

ptram said:


> I like that you can freely choose the way to control dynamics. for example, you might want to draw curves of shorts' dynamics.
> 
> If you are using the library from a DAW or notation program, you can send a CC28 message as the first part of the selection bundle in the expression map/articulation set, and choose the way to control dynamics.
> 
> ...


Sure. But just to be clear, I'm not suggesting VSL should remove functionality in the player. I'm suggesting a way VSL could add functionality to make it easier for those of us coming from other players that do this automatically.


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## AndyP (Aug 10, 2020)

ptram said:


> I've furtherly separated the ensembles in a mockup I'm working on, assigning the woodwinds (formerly various mixes from Andromeda) to Orion. Simply fantastic. BBO has become the perfect meeting point between the sketching libraries and the 'complete' ones.
> 
> However, building the final version from a sketch made with BBO could become a bit complicate: it may happen that replacing it with 'big' and 'complete' libraries will subtract something from the piece…
> 
> Paolo


Glad you brought that up. What's been holding me back is that they're only ensembles.

I have the Woodwinds from the synchronized SE with the + versions, they also have Ensemble Woodwinds. 

I'm still deciding whether to upgrade to the full Synchronized Woodwinds or to take the step with BBO. On the VSL website I can't see if the Synchronized Woodwinds also contain the Ensembles of the SE sections.

Difficult decision, I like both versions very much.


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## ptram (Aug 10, 2020)

markleake said:


> do this automatically.


If I’m not wrong, Synchron Player shows a label in the Edit tab, with what looks like the articulation's category. If articulations are indeed categorized, they could add a switch for the whole caegory.

Paolo


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## ptram (Aug 10, 2020)

AndyP said:


> I'm still deciding whether to upgrade to the full Synchronized Woodwinds or to take the step with BBO.


They are obviously very different tools, and which one suits your needs depends on you.

What I can say is that louder is more fun, and BBO can be LOUD! 

On a serious note, I’m more and more convinced that composing with ensembles gives that instant gratification that one sometimes needs to go on. But then, working on the details is also due.

Paolo


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## AndyP (Aug 10, 2020)

ptram said:


> They are obviously very different tools, and which one suits your needs depends on you.
> 
> What I can say is that louder is more fun, and BBO can be LOUD!
> 
> ...


I also heard the volume difference in the demos. With BBO Brass it was the same in vain.

I like loud and quiet ... and that costs twice as much ...  

Thanks for your comments!


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## richhickey (Aug 10, 2020)

ptram said:


> If I’m not wrong, Synchron Player shows a label in the Edit tab, with what looks like the articulation's category. If articulations are indeed categorized, they could add a switch for the whole caegory.



Some parameters can only be set at the leaves of the tree, others in parent nodes for all below. It would be nice if VelXF mode and a few others could be set in a parent, especially for libraries like Synchronized Dimension Strings, with its many per-player leaves per patch.

In fact, Ben's picture is misleading since you can't (at least with Orion, Synchron Strings, syn dim strings etc) currently set the velxf mode on "Short Notes" (a parent) but only per (leaf) type (Bold, Agile etc, or for dim strings, staccato player1). Being able to set it on "Short Notes" for all below would significantly address the OP's request for ease.


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## Ben (Aug 10, 2020)

markleake said:


> Thanks Ben, that is very useful to know! I'll go through and create presets like this.
> 
> I guess it doesn't quite do away with my request though... it would be good if the XF patches were already set like this, or there was a mechanism to do this more easily/automatically in the player.


There are users that want to control shorts by velXF, so it's impossible to satisfy everyone; but we do our best to give you the tools to customize the player to fit perfectly into your workflow.


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## Ben (Aug 10, 2020)

AndyP said:


> On the VSL website I can't see if the Synchronized Woodwinds also contain the Ensembles of the SE sections.








SYNCHRON-ized WOODWINDS - Vienna Symphonic Library


Our Woodwinds collection offers you a broad selection of orchestral woodwinds. Includes flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon recorded solo and in three-player ensembles, as well as piccolo and alto flute, two English-horns, small clarinet in Eb, bass clarinet and contrabassoon.




www.vsl.co.at





No ensemble sections in SYized Woodwinds.


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## Ben (Aug 10, 2020)

richhickey said:


> In fact, Ben's picture is misleading


It's not, because it's exactly what I did and screenshoted: Selected a leaf and set the parameter. In Andromeda which I used to make the screenshot there is only one short articulation option


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## ptram (Aug 10, 2020)

AndyP said:


> On the VSL website I can't see if the Synchronized Woodwinds also contain the Ensembles of the SE sections.


A very minimal woodwinds ensemble preset is contained in Epic Orchestra 2.0. They are the VI woodwinds in their Synchronized form, arranged on the full scale. Only a couple articulations, if I remember correctly.

The woodwinds ensemble in Neptune sounds "meatier", probably both because of the higher number of players, the room, the general philosophy of the BBO series. It contains many more articulations.

Paolo


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## Mark Schmieder (Aug 10, 2020)

I thought these sounded great in the demos overall, and it's rare that I think woodwind ensembles sound good in the sampling world. I guess this legitimizes the decision not to make a Dimension Woodwinds product, which was explained a while back (November 2019) by Ben and a few others.

It's good for people to know that this is the way to effectively get the woodwind ensemble complement to SYNCHRON-ized Woodwinds, for now.


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## AndyP (Aug 11, 2020)

The Woodwinds are awesome. Acquired today and immediately inspired to write something with them.
If Lemmy Kilmister (RIP) would ask: Is it loud enough? The answer would be, yes!


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## brett (Aug 11, 2020)

Ben said:


> Yes, this is possible:
> 
> Select the slot, go to the Edit tab and change the velocity crossfade setting from "Global" to "Off".
> This will override the global VelXF setting for this slot and make it senstive to key-velocity instead.
> ...



This is fantastic. Is this also possible in the VI player?


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## Ben (Aug 11, 2020)

brett said:


> This is fantastic. Is this also possible in the VI player?


Not sure about the VI, but VI PRO has this feature as well


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## Ben (Aug 18, 2020)

Hi everyone! If you still did not get BBO Neptune and Orion - now you can check it out yourself with 30 days demo version! Simply go to the product page and click on the 30 days demo button. All you need is an USB eLicenser:






NEPTUNE: Tutti Woodwinds - Vienna Symphonic Library


In Big Bang Orchestra: Neptune, the “tutti” ensemble of all the woodwinds brings together 13 musicians with their diverse instruments, from the piccolo to the contrabassoon. Recording the rich and colorful sound of these heterogeneous instruments as a group is ideal for showcasing the delicate...




www.vsl.co.at









ORION: Woodwind Sections - Vienna Symphonic Library


BBO: Orion offers four separate ensembles of flutes, oboes, clarinets and bassoons, with three musicians playing in unison in each ensemble.




www.vsl.co.at


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## JonS (Aug 18, 2020)

Ben said:


> Hi everyone! If you still did not get BBO Neptune and Orion - now you can check it out yourself with 30 days demo version! Simply go to the product page and click on the 30 days demo button. All you need is an USB eLicenser:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My favorites so far in the BBO series include Jupiter, Hercules, Dorado, Neptune, Orion, and Musca. All of these titles sound incredible and will get a lot of use. 

Suggestions for VSL🤞
Lyra is very good but I wish you could balance the mix between violins and violas so you can shape the tone. Izar is excellent but I wish there were some alternate cluster choices as it’s fairly specific. The low notes in Andromeda sound absolutely amazing, not sure why I don’t feel that way about the high register range, but those low notes are riveting!!

Black Eye sounds terrific but I wish it offered more sounds. Fornax also should include more sounds and the drums and piano patch needs to be rebalanced as it has a lot of potential, too much drums and not nearly enough piano.

Eridanus and Capricorn are phenomenal but I wish they included way more riffs.

Ganymede is very good, a few more sound sets would be nice like add mmms and ooohs.

The Synchron Pianos are so spectacular that I don’t see using any other piano again unless I need a niche sound. The Bosendorfer Imperial and Yamaha pianos are must buys IMHO.

Synchron Percussion I & II sound amazing and are also must buys IMHO. Let’s hope there’s a Percussion III in the horizon with ethnic instruments and a few missing staples.

Synchron FX Strings I and Power Drums sound fabulous, praying these goes on sale again.

Excited to hear Synchron Woodwinds and Brass when they appear!!

Have not heard Synchron Strings yet so I can’t comment.


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## Beans (Aug 18, 2020)

Yes, as soon as there's a viable sale, I will probably be jumping on several Synchron/SYized sets!


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## Ben (Aug 18, 2020)

@JonS Thanks for your detailed feedback!

In case you didn't know here a few comments to your comments 



JonS said:


> Izar is excellent but I wish there were some alternate cluster choices as it’s fairly specific


Izar is especially designed to crossfade with Hercules. If you have both libraries installed you will have access to a Hercules-Izar combined instrument preset, so you can crossfade between cluster and non-cluster at any time. Really powerfull!



JonS said:


> Fornax also should include more sounds and the drums and piano patch needs to be rebalanced as it has a lot of potential, too much drums and not nearly enough piano.


Fornax is primarly a percussion library and not a piano one, so the piano sound was reduced in the mix. You can reverse this by disabling (or reverse) the EQ on the piano mics.


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## ptram (Aug 18, 2020)

JonS said:


> Fornax also should include more sounds and the drums and piano patch needs to be rebalanced as it has a lot of potential, too much drums and not nearly enough piano.





Ben said:


> Fornax is primarly a percussion library and not a piano one


What's funny is that I would personally like some sets with _less_ piano sound! So, you probably nailed the perfect average!

Paolo


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## Ben (Aug 18, 2020)

ptram said:


> What's funny is that I would personally like some sets with _less_ piano sound! So, you probably nailed the perfect average!


I programmed a mockup where I used Fornax as well, but I did not want the piano sound of it, so I turned of the piano mics and adjusted the mix. Worked perfectly for the piece!


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## ptram (Aug 18, 2020)

Ben said:


> I turned of the piano mics and adjusted the mix. Worked perfectly for the piece!


In Fornax bleeding makes a great job in increasing the perceived resonance of the other instruments. I agree that it works perfectly, even when one wouldn't expect it.

Paolo


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## jaketanner (Aug 22, 2020)

Is the lack of vibrato in Orion intentional? Don't really find it to expressive...unless it's not meant to be. Also, I think the "expressive" legato should be renamed...it's deceiving. Expressive to me IS more vibrato, not a slight swell with a near zero dynamic range. Just a bit odd.


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## Ben (Aug 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Also, I think the "expressive" legato should be renamed


There is no "expressive" legato. Maybe you meant "Espressivo" 
Espressivo is the same for all our libraries.

I don't think vibrato should be the focus of a wind / brass ensemble.



jaketanner said:


> Don't really find it to expressive


Maybe move the velocity crossfade fader a little bit


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## jaketanner (Aug 22, 2020)

Ben said:


> There is no "expressive" legato. Maybe you meant "Espressivo"
> Espressivo is the same for all our libraries.
> 
> I don't think vibrato should be the focus of a wind / brass ensemble.
> ...


The dynamic CC1, only makes it a bit louder But doesn’t add vibrato at all.

Vibrato as focus, no...but near zero vibrato sounds flat to me. However the solo winds are excellent. Just my observation...perhaps in a more epic style track the winds will work better.


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## Ben (Aug 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> The dynamic CC1, only makes it a bit louder


Velocity crossfade does more then jsut a little bit loader: The tone/color of the instrument changes.

And yes, they work well, I have created a mockup where I used these


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## jaketanner (Aug 22, 2020)

Ben said:


> Velocity crossfade does more then jsut a little bit loader: The tone/color of the instrument changes.
> 
> And yes, they work well, I have created a mockup where I used these


Okay...so what I've gathered after some experimenting.

Still not sure why the Main Room mix is added into the other mic positions...seems like it should stand on it's own. So with this muted, I created a really nice blend that seems to work for my taste...I do love how you left the open "bleed" mics for the other instruments in Orion...wish all libraries had this option. Really nice addition for control. 

I tried blending it with another wind library I have using solo instruments as harmony on top of Origin...sounds excellent! Might need to pick this one up.


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## Mark Schmieder (Aug 22, 2020)

I just bought both of these a minute ago, after noticing that there is flexibility in the section balance if one scrolls to the far right to access the section mics. I was concerned previously about baked-in balances that might not work in some cases or when layering solo instruments atop these sections.

I actually think these sound the best of any of the section-oriented add-on packs so far, but that's not terribly surprising as I have always considered the woodwinds the forte of VSL, followed by the strings.

The other reason I hesitated so long on these add-on packs, is that I wasn't sure about the primary-instrument-in-threes approach, but as I thought over it some more and recalled typical orchestration practices, I realized that the intra-family range typically gets narrowed during ensemble casting.

One should never doubt for a minute that VSL haven't thought everything through in minute detail ahead of time, based on real-world experience and deep knowledge of orchestration and performance practices around the world and through the decades.


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## Ben (Aug 28, 2020)

Another great demo from Guy Bacos:


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## ptram (Aug 28, 2020)

Ben said:


> Another great demo from Guy Bacos:



Guy Bacos videos are not just product showcases, but great composition lessons! Thanx for them!

Paolo


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## ptram (Aug 28, 2020)

@Ben, I think it's not totally clear to me: what's the real difference between Bold and Agile shorts? I've currently categorized them as, respectively, Staccato and Staccatissimo/Spiccato, but I’m not sure this correctly describes them.

Paolo


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## Ben (Aug 28, 2020)

Bold = For short notes
Agile = For short notes repetitions, runs, ostinatos


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## ptram (Aug 28, 2020)

Ben said:


> Bold = For short notes
> Agile = For short notes repetitions, runs, ostinatos


Thank you for your answer. So, it's not a matter of length (even if it may be), but of speed. Noted.

Paolo


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## jaketanner (Aug 28, 2020)

Ordered N&O today.  Hoping I don't also need P&Q. LOL


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## jaketanner (Aug 28, 2020)

I am still a bit perplexed with the "main/room" mic mix. Because as default, this is on as wells the other mics...so is that not redundant info? If the main/room mic mix IS the mix of microphones, then why double the mics? Do I have this wrong?


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## Ben (Aug 28, 2020)

The room-mic, as the name says, is a mix of the room mics without close-/spot- mics, but including also the mics form the Full library (in the Synchron Series).
This allows to create more resource friendlier presets.


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## jaketanner (Aug 28, 2020)

Ben said:


> The room-mic, as the name says, is a mix of the room mics without close-/spot- mics, but including also the mics form the Full library (in the Synchron Series).
> This allows to create more resource friendlier presets.


Oh I see. So that’s why the main mic has spot mics and mid mics on. Got it now. Thanks. Is there anything the main mix has that can’t be recreated with the individual?


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## Ben (Aug 28, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Is there anything the main mix has that can’t be recreated with the individual?


Only in the Synchron Standard Libraries.


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## Robo Rivard (Aug 29, 2020)

@ Ben

I'm sorry if it was explained before, but all the BBO libraries have the mention "Starter Edition"... What does it mean? More articulations and performances will be added at a later date?

For the other VSL libraries, it is clear: you have "Standard' and "Full" editions. But the BBO libraries seem to already have all the mic positions in the "Starter Edition".


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## Ben (Aug 30, 2020)

Robo Rivard said:


> all the BBO libraries have the mention "Starter Edition"... What does it mean?


I think it's a labeling-mistake on the website. I'll look into this.



Robo Rivard said:


> For the other VSL libraries, it is clear: you have "Standard' and "Full" editions. But the BBO libraries seem to already have all the mic positions in the "Starter Edition".


Yes. The all libraries of the BBO-Series have all mics included. It's a series on its own with only "Standard" libraries.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Aug 30, 2020)

Ben said:


> I think it's a labeling-mistake on the website. I'll look into this.



I wondered about this as well. Shouldn't BBO be sorted under "Synchron libraries"? The individual packs by themselves are affordable, but what they get you is definitely far beyond a "starter pack".


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## markleake (Sep 4, 2020)

@Ben When are Neptune and Orion intro sales over?

I'm keen on checking out the new BBO percussion libs and these together, especially now I've noticed there are downloadable demos for the woods. But I don't know how much time I have to review the demos.


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## Ben (Sep 4, 2020)

markleake said:


> @Ben When are Neptune and Orion intro sales over?


~in a week or so. But don't take this as promise. I don't know the exact date it will end. If you are interested make sure to check it out now and get it asap!


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## markleake (Sep 4, 2020)

Ben said:


> ~in a week or so. But don't take this as promise. I don't know the exact date it will end. If you are interested make sure to check it out now and get it asap!


Awesome, thanks! I just wanted to make sure I had time over the weekend, and sounds like I do.


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## rrichard63 (Sep 4, 2020)

markleake said:


> @Ben When are Neptune and Orion intro sales over?


According to a September 1 VSL email, "We’re extending our *introductory offer* on our Big Bang Orchestra Woodwind Packs through *September 15, 2020!"*


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## markleake (Sep 4, 2020)

Cool, thanks heaps @rrichard63


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## bill45 (Sep 4, 2020)

I wish they extended the Sale for the special editions


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