# Danny Elfman String Writing



## BenG (Feb 10, 2015)

I was wondering if anyone had any tips on how Danny Elfman gets his string sound, particularly in his more 'touching'/'magical' scores. (Think Scissorhands)

Does he use a lot of divisi? Counter-lines? Special articulations? Voicing?

Thanks in advance!


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## patrick76 (Feb 10, 2015)

I don't know if I can give you tips on imitating Elfman's string sound, but I can tell you that in Scissorhands he does use divisi, tremolo, sordino, and pizzicato. The score used to be available at http://www.omnimusicpublishing.com/ so you might be able to track a copy down. Good luck.


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## prodigalson (Feb 10, 2015)

Danny Elfman writes a lot of different string sounds but Scissorhands has a ton of close position divisi in the high strings with liberal amounts of tremolo over low string pedals etc. Can't go wrong with sordino strings either.


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## SillyMidOn (Feb 11, 2015)

Hi

This might be useful:

http://syded.com/downloads/music-from-s ... lfman.html

and this

http://youtu.be/712ntdvBBTg?t=6m14s

… he talks about string and sample usage, though the technique he uses is very common these days.

Hope that helps.


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## BenG (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks for all of the help! The video is actually very useful and I had no idea about all of those scores available! Seems to be a bit of a goldmine


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## AC986 (Feb 11, 2015)

Danny Elfman is a really good film composer. Like Thomas Newman, he has benefited from being inspired by the likes of Bernard Herrmann. 

The VSL video is a really useful learning curve for anyone wishing to write music to film and Danny Elfman is a very down to earth kind of bloke.


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## AlexandreSafi (Feb 12, 2015)

I wanted to chime in because i just love the composer's work myself, particularly Big Fish & Spider-Man!
Then i really realized i had nothing meaningful, in my own judgement, to write about, "exposing textually his sound", even as detailed as that could be, i question if that would then result in you as a composer to be "ah-ha aurally transformed" by it...

What i can say is the deepest way to understand someone's sound is through having simple self-study listening tools, so it's knowing how to really "figure it out by ear". It's all orchestra here, first know intimately what the sound of each color is, instrument, articulation, doubling, which you probably already took care of along the way till today with all of your music listening...

It's really a personal intimate experience...
You already know what you love best about his writing... 

I personally also feel his string writing is so prolific and more than just one thing so the real shortcut is really: you hunting the compositions & getting & naming the sounds down on paper or MIDI, play them at the piano n' compare with the recordings & score. You'll build your "Danny Elfman's mind ear" or internal sound library of your favorite Danny Elfman's sounds if you prefer...

Through this process you'll figure out:
-ok now i can hear this amount of notes within that chord,
-allright, the violins are playing in this range/articulation and in this certain delicate volume dynamic, while vertically & horizontally the choir in the center-lefty & horns in my right ear are probably marked & played this way, 
-oh yes, i can hear the cellos on the right doing this sort of movement down there while on the left the violas and violins are sordino-sustained mid-up there,
-ok basses and vlns pizz down & up there, now shifts to expressivo-legato movement, and back to pizz within just 5 secs,
-ah yes, he keeps crescending & decrescending this waltzy part here, etc, etc...

Anyway, having a "historical" musical perspective can be also really helpful:

If you're especially interested in Scissorhands, you'll realize if you geekly love John Williams as i do, it is in some parts quite similar to Hook's lush string writing, so i'd recommend listening to more classical music, the late Romantics composers, Ravel, Debussy maybe, also Prokofiev, Shostakovich & Tchaikovsky, & studying B. Herrmann is also significantly great advice from Adrian Cook...

I think some of Danny Elfman's influences also are : Nino Rota, Alex North, Waxman, Korngold, Erik Satie, Stravinsky, C.Orff, Bartók, P. Glass & Jazz artist Duke Ellington...

Use also Imslp: http://imslp.org/
you'll learn all you need if you know what to listen for and look out for...

You'll just "feel" D.Elfman's sound after committing your intelligent ear (use it!!) & sensibly transcribing enough pieces...

That goes to say, it's funny how "feeling" music nowadays has become so underrated. We approach it so much from the outside now. I guess it's because "feeling" is the result of applying antiquated, simple, yet timeless deep listening tools that will lead to deep synthesized knowledge of musical sounds & contexts which of course can't really be shortcut with any other methods other than putting your hours in the deep listening process...

Intention & Attention...

Sorry rambling here... (o) 
Not really what you asked for, i know...
Good luck on your success! o-[][]-o


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## AndreP (Feb 12, 2015)

Everything Alexandre said is spot on. Danny Elfman's sound in general came from his study of composers that influenced him. Just as Alexandre has suggested, there is no "quick and easy reference tool" for this is what Composer A or B does to write strings or brass, etc. Using your ear and just writing in general is the first step to scratching the surface of finding out what influenced the composers that influence you and to also sharpening you're own skills and voice.


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## BenG (Feb 12, 2015)

Thank you Alexandre for your thoughtful and insightful answer! I really appreciate and completely understand your point. To be quite honest, the method you outline is usually how I go about learning new techniques, styles that I can draw on and use in my own works. 

That being said, I guess the real issue came down to I was trying to analyze some of Elfman's intimate string scores (Scissorhands, Meet The Robinsons, et al) and was unable to transcribe it properly. It sounded correct on piano, but when I tried to orchestrate in my DAW it seemed almost as if something was missing or incorrect. Without a score to reference, it was a bit difficult to tell where I was going wrong...

In any case, what you mention about historical context is quite helpful and I will be sure to research Elfman's influences to see where his stylistic cues came from. 
*Also, any score/piece suggestions for study are greatly appreciated!!*

I have done a similar study with Thomas Newman and I can say he does not use a few 'tricks' to achieve his sound and it took me the better part of a year or so to really get into it and understand his approach. 

Again, thank you for your extensive response and I will be sure to listen more and more closely


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## AlexandreSafi (Feb 12, 2015)

BenG @ Thu Feb 12 said:


> I guess the real issue came down to I was trying to analyze some of Elfman's intimate string scores (Scissorhands, Meet The Robinsons, et al) and was unable to transcribe it properly. It sounded correct on piano, but when I tried to orchestrate in my DAW it seemed almost as if something was missing or incorrect. Without a score to reference, it was a bit difficult to tell where I was going wrong...
> 
> In any case, what you mention about historical context is quite helpful and I will be sure to research Elfman's influences to see where his stylistic cues came from.
> *Also, any score/piece suggestions for study are greatly appreciated!!*



Yes BenG, I totally understand your situation here, 
I see usually 2 reasons for which this can happen...

1)I actually remember years ago MIDI transcribing about half the score to Titanic. What happened is i remember my speed was so slow, but i took it one step at a time, especially the piano pieces Horner performed himself, there's some nice polyphony in there... The result of the initial transcriptions often were that i thought i had captured all the right notes, but then coming days afterwards what i didn't realize was that some of the notes were wrong, and i had missed certain combinations/doublings, so i revised it days later, but i only could do that because by that point my brain could "infiltrate the cacophony and subtlety of the sounds" much better than before... That's how i realized listening into the details is an on-going refining process if you put the hours in, and you start finding out more details that organically fill the composition as the artist intended but which you had missed before...

2) What also happened is that weeks later, I also transcribed in my DAW a piece from Minority Report called "A New Beginning" by John Williams, probably one of the simplest & direct & most beautiful pieces he ever wrote. Everything went perfect, the notes, articulations, dynamics well performed, except for one thing, the MIDI mix...

There's this little soft passage with trilled flutes, sustained clarinets, swaying soft cellos & a tutti on Violins/Piano/Glock...
The mix sounded so different because of the way the samples were recorded compared to how it sounded in the beautiful Sony scoring stage in the official recording, to the point where it "felt" like something was missing when it wasn't really, the reverb wasn't as effective, the cellos felt misplaced, too thin and dry while the woods behind weren't warming the piece up as much as in the Sony recording... I guess that's where more ear practice again comes in handy so that if i were to come at it again now it would probably sound modestly better hopefully, but that's to say that's how much samples can sometimes be quite deceiving on the composition itself, even if it's all there architecturally speaking...

Anyways, here are "a few" of the Classics & probably some of Elfman's influences for general string writing you can study:

*Ravel:*

Valses Sentimentales No.1, 6 & 7 (but all of it really...)
Pavane pour une infante defunte
Rapsodie espagnole: III Habanera
La Valse
Daphnis et Chloe
Ma mere l'oye [Great one]
Une barque sur l'océan...

*Prokofiev: *

Dance of the Knights
Peter And The Wolf March 
Symphony 1(1st mvt & 4th mvt.) 2, 3, 4, 5 (2nd movement), 
6 (3rd & 6th movement), 
7 (4, but particularly 2nd, 3rd & 4th movements)

*Tchaikovsky: *

Romeo & Juliet/
Waltz of the Flowers/
Swan Lake (Don't skip this amazing one...)/
Nutcracker [Dance of The Sugar Plum Fairies & Dance of the Reed Pipes]/
None but the lonely hearts/
Valse Sentimentale/
Sleeping Beauty [Waltz] 
Symphony 6 (Allegro con grazia & 3rd mvt.)

*Shostakovich:*

Cello Concerto No.1
The Gadfly Suite III. Romance
Symphony 10 II. Allegro
Jazz Suite No.2--VI. Waltz 2
Piano Quintet III. Scherzo

*Satie:* Gymnopedie (Debussy's Orchestration)

*Saint-Saëns: *

Danse Macabre
Le carnaval des animaux (Aquarium)
Organ Symphony

*Gershwin:*

Rhapsody In Blue -- An american in Paris [Dick Tracy score influence]

*Bartok:*

Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta
Concerto for Orchestra
Divertimento

*Hermann:*

Psycho
Vertigo (Theme & Scene d'Amour)
Taxi Driver

*Additional String Writing:*

*Borodin:*
Symphony 1. Mvt.1
Symphony 2. Mvt. 1
Symphony 2. Mvt. 3
Symphony 2. Mvt. 4

*Debussy: *
Nocturne-Fêtes
Prélude--À L'après-Midi D'un Faune
Suite Bergamasque III. Clair De Lune (Orchestrated by André Caplet)
La Mer (I. De l'Aube à Midi sur la Mer] 
La Mer [II. Jeux de Vagues]

*Stravinsky:*
Rite of Spring--[Dances of the Young Girls/Glorification of the Chosen One/Sacrificial Dance]
Nightingale (Introduction)
Firebird [Kashchei's Enchanted Garden/Appearance of the Firebird, Pursued by Prince Ivan/
Supplication of the Firebird/Game of the Princesses with the Golden Apples/Round Dance of the Princesses/
Magic Carillon, Appearance of Kashchei's Guardian Monsters & Capture of Ivan Tsarevich
Dance of Kashchei's Retinue Under the Spell of the Firebird/
Infernal Dance of All Kashchei's Subject's/Lullaby of the Firebird/Collapse of Kashchei's Palace & Dissolution of All Enchantments]


Best,
.AS.


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## BenG (Feb 12, 2015)

AlexandreSafi @ Thu Feb 12 said:


> BenG @ Thu Feb 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyways, here are "a few" of the Classics & probably some of Elfman's influences for general string writing you can study:
> ...



Firstly, I would just like to say your response and list of pieces is exceptionally generous and I am truly appreciate you taking the time to compile such an extensive collection!!! Some of the ones listed are definitely all-time favorites of mine and I can assure that I will be studying all of them in the coming weeks, months, years. 

As for the samples, you are 100% correct and in fact, after trying the same passage with a different library, it began to sound closer to what I had imagined. Needless to say, I am much less discouraged and I feel I am at least on the right track...

Again, I cannot thank you enough and you are really too generous!!!

Best,

Ben


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