# Small studio monitors



## JT (May 10, 2017)

I'm going to be moving to a much smaller home in a month. My 8" monitors are a little too big for the space I'm going to be in. Any recommendations for monitors that are smaller than that? The smaller the better as long as it has a good sound.

JT


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## ReversedLogic (May 10, 2017)

JT said:


> I'm going to be moving to a much smaller home in a month. My 8" monitors are a little too big for the space I'm going to be in. Any recommendations for monitors that are smaller than that? The smaller the better as long as it has a good sound.
> 
> JT


That could really depend on your budget - I recently picked up a pair of Yamaha HS5s which I'm quite happy with and are quite affordable. They don't have much low end and a bit of a bump at 1k but for the footprint/cost I am quite pleased.


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## Vin (May 10, 2017)

Neumann KH 120 A. If money is no object, Geithain RL906.


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## N.Caffrey (May 10, 2017)

psi audio a17


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## muk (May 10, 2017)

+1 to the above. The Geithain RL906 are terrific speakers. The Neumann's and Psi'sa re supposed to be very good as well.


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## ctsai89 (May 10, 2017)

ReversedLogic said:


> That could really depend on your budget - I recently picked up a pair of Yamaha HS5s which I'm quite happy with and are quite affordable. They don't have much low end and a bit of a bump at 1k but for the footprint/cost I am quite pleased.



I recently got a rokit 6 (white) and I couldn't be more happy from the switch from JBL305's. Except for maybe the auto standby


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## MatFluor (May 10, 2017)

Really small?

IK Multimedia iLoud Micro Monitors. Great monitors for that size - love them


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 10, 2017)

I found the KH120 to be impressive for the price. If you need something in the lower end then I'd suggest the JBL LSR305 although I've found them to vary quite a bit with placement in the room (more than other monitors I have). Their new 705 look great if you're doing anything for film.


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## Ryan (May 10, 2017)

Many good firms above. Check out Eve Audio. They got some solid small monitors.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 10, 2017)

Can I ask why 8" monitors would be too big for the space when 5" or 6" ones aren't?


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## gregh (May 10, 2017)

I have Adam A7's which I like a lot. Very clear and one of those purchases that made a genuine difference to my music making. They are discontinued but Adam have a few even smaller monitors now which I imagine are also very high quality.


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Can I ask why 8" monitors would be too big for the space when 5" or 6" ones aren't?



It depends on where that room is.

Most audio acoustic experts will tell you that you want a full frequency monitor and not worry about the room. So he could possibly keep his 8 inch monitor and be fine.

But if you live around neighbors (which I do) and/or you are in an apartment or condo building (which I am), and you are in a small room (mine is 9 foot x 11 foot x 8 feet high) then those big monitors will give you bass problems even if the room is treated. I manged to squeeze in 23 8 inch thick GIK bass traps into my room and I still have weird standing nodes. Even smaller monitors may give you bass issues.

Going to a smaller monitor will help tame the nodes, but you will sacrifice low end, and you still may have node problems. If I were in a free standing house I would not worry about it and keep the 8 inch monitor. But if you live in an apartment or condo building, your neighbors will be happier if you have 5 inch monitors.

By the way, I am currently selling a pair of JBL 4328p monitors for the exact same reasons I described above. You would have thought I would have learned my lesson when I bought them since my room before this one was just as small!

I will get either the Yamaha msp5, Yamaha HS5, or the KRR Rokit RP5 G3.


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

gregh said:


> I have Adam A7's which I like a lot. Very clear and one of those purchases that made a genuine difference to my music making. They are discontinued but Adam have a few even smaller monitors now which I imagine are also very high quality.



He could go Adam A7x, or the A5x. I had a pair of A7x monitors and just could not get on with the high end.

He did not say anything about budget, but another monitor which I loved to mix on was the KRK V4 and V6. KRK just released a new series of these and they are getting rave reviews. I spent 5 years mixing on the V4's and they will totally surprise you for a 4" monitor.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 10, 2017)

Byron said:


> It depends on where that room is.
> 
> Most audio acoustic experts will tell you that you want a full frequency monitor and not worry about the room. So he could possibly keep his 8 inch monitor and be fine.
> 
> ...



Couldn't you just high pass the monitor to get a more similar response to smaller ones? Of course you wouldn't get the same agility as a smaller driver but it could be better than having to go through the trouble of getting new monitors.


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Couldn't you just high pass the monitor to get a more similar response to smaller ones? Of course you wouldn't get the same agility as a smaller driver but it could be better than having to go through the trouble of getting new monitors.



The JBL's do not have high pass on them. I would have to do it in software which would not be ideal at all. Plus I don't like the JBL waveguide on the high end. That's why I'm staying away from the 305's. 

Also in a very small room front ported monitors tend to work out better than rear ported. That scratches the HS5's off the list.

Yea, I'm picky when it comes to monitors.


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## Ashermusic (May 10, 2017)

Byron said:


> He could go Adam A7x, or the A5x. I had a pair of A7x monitors and just could not get on with the high end.
> 
> He did not say anything about budget, but another monitor which I loved to mix on was the KRK V4 and V6. KRK just released a new series of these and they are getting rave reviews. I spent 5 years mixing on the V4's and they will totally surprise you for a 4" monitor.




I have never heard a KRK monitor that I liked, frankly. Maybe the new ones are better though.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 10, 2017)

Byron said:


> Plus I don't like the JBL waveguide on the high end. That's why I'm staying away from the 305's.



Well the 305's have a completely different waveguide based on the M2. I'm really wanting to listen to the 705 and 708 which also have the same waveguide but use different driver and a compression driver for the high frequency. They seem to be killer monitors for the price. I've heard that they're the best thing when mixing for dubbing stages. My only concern is how well they work for music. Front ported and tons of built in EQ features that you could use to high pass. Gonna try to find a place in LA that has them out for listening.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 10, 2017)

Byron:


> Yea, I'm picky when it comes to monitors.



Everyone is, or should be, but getting rid of your bass to try and stop your neighbors from hearing it is like removing your shoe laces because your hat has a hole in it!

Will explain later...


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Byron:
> 
> Everyone is, or should be, but getting rid of your bass to try and stop your neighbors from hearing it is like removing your shoe laces because your hat has a hole in it!
> 
> Will explain later...



I know, I know . . . and I am well aware of the detriments, but I don't want to get evicted (unless you are offering room and board) . . . . . And the 4328 imaging to my ears is really bad at low volumes.

And HPF idea is not good either.

So the plan is to go with either the msp5 or the focal alpha 50 and just run with those in my small room until I move to a bigger room with no neighbors. I'll have to use my headphones to check bass but I won't be the first composer/mixer/producer who uses 5 inch driver and I won't be the last.


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Well the 305's have a completely different waveguide based on the M2. I'm really wanting to listen to the 705 and 708 which also have the same waveguide but use different driver and a compression driver for the high frequency. They seem to be killer monitors for the price. I've heard that they're the best thing when mixing for dubbing stages. My only concern is how well they work for music. Front ported and tons of built in EQ features that you could use to high pass. Gonna try to find a place in LA that has them out for listening.



I pretty sure Vintage King in LA has them (or maybe they told me they are getting them). I am meaning to take a trip to LA to visit friends and hopefully get to VK to check them out.


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> I have never heard a KRK monitor that I liked, frankly. Maybe the new ones are better though.



I never liked the Rokit or the VXT's. The Expose were okay, but a lot of people loved the old V series line. They made them from like 2004 to 2010 right before Stanton and Gibson got involved. I think those were KRK's best monitors. Then they yanked them for the VXT series.

KRK added a few things, improved some other things and brought them back as V Series 4.

Look them up on Gearslutz, they have killer reviews.


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## wst3 (May 10, 2017)

I've been at this for a while, and it feels like I am really missing something. I'm not trying to be critical, I would just like to know where some of this information comes from, as it doesn't make a lot of sense to me...



Byron said:


> Most audio acoustic experts will tell you that you want a full frequency monitor and not worry about the room. So he could possibly keep his 8 inch monitor and be fine.



Which is the advice I'd probably give as well. If you like your monitors you can keep your monitors (sorry, couldn't resist!). None of the following issues have anything to do - directly - with the monitors...



Byron said:
 

> But if you live around neighbors (which I do) and/or you are in an apartment or condo building (which I am), and you are in a small room (mine is 9 foot x 11 foot x 8 feet high) then those big monitors will give you bass problems even if the room is treated.



Monitors do NOT cause frequency response problems, not in the bass octaves, not anywhere. A specific monitor might have a unique sonic footprint, but that's an entirely different issue. The size of the driver will NOT cause modal problems or bass problems.

Now 9' x 11' x 8' is a relatively small space, no argument. And it will have low frequency issues because the dimensions are pretty close, especially with respect the wavelengths of the lower octaves. But that has nothing to do with the monitors that are driving the space. If I am wrong please point me in the direction of better info.



Byron said:


> I manged to squeeze in 23 8 inch thick GIK bass traps into my room and I still have weird standing nodes. Even smaller monitors may give you bass issues.



Yes, sorta... I think a better way to say it would be that if the room has problems then the size of the monitor or the drivers won't make those problems go away.



Byron said:


> Going to a smaller monitor will help tame the nodes, but you will sacrifice low end, and you still may have node problems.



This has not been my experience. Even if you reduce the energy in the lower octaves it will still build up, and if you reduce it enough the direct sound will now be very bass shy, and the modal energy will fill it in, but only at specific frequencies, and that is going to sound odd (at best) to downright bad. And it won't translate well to other spaces.



Byron said:


> If I were in a free standing house I would not worry about it and keep the 8 inch monitor. But if you live in an apartment or condo building, your neighbors will be happier if you have 5 inch monitors.



And this is the part that I find most confusing. You can (within reason) drive any monitor to any SPL, and as long as there is no blood pouring out of your eyes you'll probably be ok - which means the opposite is just as true... I can maintain an 85 dBSPL reference level with almost any monitor on the market today. Just because you have an 8 inch driver doesn't mean you have to try to rattle the walls.

If you are happy with your current monitors I'd be really inclined to keep them, and work on the physical problems in the room.


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## MarcelM (May 10, 2017)

i use the jbl 305 and i think they are awesome. now when i bought that tascam uh 7000 and dropped my audient id22 there is alot of more lowend. i love those speakers. i had krk before and the jbl sound better.

just my 2 cents.


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

wst3 said:


> This has not been my experience. Even if you reduce the energy in the lower octaves it will still build up, and if you reduce it enough the direct sound will now be very bass shy, and the modal energy will fill it in, but only at specific frequencies, and that is going to sound odd (at best) to downright bad. And it won't translate well to other spaces.



I was trying to make that point, but I think it got lost. I will be the first to tell you that I'm no acoustics expert and it's one of those parts of my studio that I wish I had the resource to hand off to someone else to figure out. But I do know the speaker will not matter much in my room. That's why I said even small monitors will give you problems.



wst3 said:


> If you are happy with your current monitors I'd be really inclined to keep them, and work on the physical problems in the room.



I think the missing part is I don't own the room. It's rented so there's not really much I can change physically about it. I'm down to adding treatment, and I really can't add much more.

Plus I'm not 100 percent happy with the 4328's.


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

Heroix said:


> i use the jbl 305 and i think they are awesome. now when i bought that tascam uh 7000 and dropped my audient id22 there is alot of more lowend. i love those speakers. i had krk before and the jbl sound better.
> 
> just my 2 cents.



I wish I could rent the 305's out for a few weeks and just test them out. I hear so many people rave about them so now I am a bit curious. I am probably assuming that since they are JBL's they will sound the same as my current monitors and that's not true because they are built differently than my 4328's.


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## MarcelM (May 10, 2017)

Byron said:


> I wish I could rent the 305's out for a few weeks and just test them out. I hear so many people rave about them so now I am a bit curious. I am probably assuming that since they are JBL's they will sound the same as my current monitors and that's not true because they are built differently than my 4328's.



well... amazon has a 30 days return window... but would it be okay to just try out things? not sure, but alot of people do that. your choice.

i bought mine because i read only good things about them anywhere and never looked back. i was told you have to invest like 1k plus to get a better sound, and i believe that 

what interface are you using between? it makes a hell of a difference


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

Heroix said:


> well... amazon has a 30 days return window... but would it be okay to just try out things? not sure, but alot of people do that. your choice.
> 
> i bought mine because i read only good things about them anywhere and never looked back. i was told you have to invest like 1k plus to get a better sound, and i believe that
> 
> what interface are you using between? it makes a hell of a difference



I got an RME HDSPe Madi FX that I run AES into a Dangerous Music Source. So I'm good interface wise.


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## MarcelM (May 10, 2017)

Byron said:


> I got an RME HDSPe Madi FX that I run AES into a Dangerous Music Source. So I'm good interface wise.



ok, what i can also recommend then is the sonarworks reference software. also very very good... but i guess you have that already or have a proper treatet room


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

Heroix said:


> ok, what i can also recommend then is the sonarworks reference software. also very very good... but i guess you have that already or have a proper treatet room



Room is well treated. 23 bass traps, some of them have diffusers.

I used Sonarworks but did not like it.

I may have to talk to go the Amazon route just to try them out.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 10, 2017)

23 bass traps?!

Can you post a picture?


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 10, 2017)

Byron said:


> Room is well treated. 23 bass traps, some of them have diffusers.
> 
> I used Sonarworks but did not like it.
> 
> I may have to talk to go the Amazon route just to try them out.



What's your definition of bass trap? Those normal GIK panels don't go low so the difference of a smaller vs larger monitor LF cutoff won't change the response in the frequency range that the panels are treating.


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> What's your definition of bass trap? Those normal GIK panels don't go low so the difference of a smaller vs larger monitor LF cutoff won't change the response in the frequency range that the panels are treating.


 
Yes, their 242 panel (and even their 244 panels) don't go that low.

But all of my panels are GIK Monster bass traps with flexrange technology. I have 15 Monster Bass Traps and 4 of them have scatter plates in them (in the rear). Then I have 8 of their tri-corner bass traps.

The next step would be for me to use tuned membrane traps for the offending frequencies, but I felt that would be a mistake for a room that I don't own.


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## Byron (May 10, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> 23 bass traps?!
> 
> Can you post a picture?



I started a conversation and sent them to you. I am new to using the forum, so I did not know how to PM yet.


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## Maximvs (May 11, 2017)

Hi JT,

I have been using a set of Equator D5 just for my stage piano Kawai MP8 and really happy with them.... https://www.equatoraudio.com/New-Improved-D5-Studio-Monitors-Pair-p/d5.htm

Cheers, Max


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## mc_deli (May 11, 2017)

Front ported VXT6 and 10-s sub sound great in my very small, well-treated, professionally-designed room. 
The VXT6 has a smile curve. The sub is only on a tickle. I measure and correct a little with Sonarworks as shown in this thread.
I had the KH120a against these and, with correction, the VXT/sub combination was an easy winner - comparable sound, much better extension and cheaper.

The weakness of the VXT series is the poor shielding - there are quite a few threads around about that. 
Don't let people who have not used the gear make your decisions for you 
Try before you buy - in your room if you can.


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## Ashermusic (May 11, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> Don't let people who have not used the gear make your decisions for you
> Try before you buy - in your room if you can.



Very good advice.


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## Luke W (May 11, 2017)

I just upgraded from M-Audio Bx8a's to Genelec 8030B for my 13x11 studio. Very happy, but I'm not mixing - just listening for transcription and arranging work. Down from 8 inch to 5 inch definitely loses some bass - but I had more than I needed before. And I was able to move the monitors from separate speaker stands to the desktop with little iso stands. Really loving the Genelec's.


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