# Pitch bend sending midi unintentionally



## chillbot

Anyone have any tricks or suggestions for this?

I'm asking this here because it's happened to me with multiple controllers in the past, figured it might be somewhat common.

What happens is the pitch bend wheel gets a bit "loosey goosey" and will transmit random midi pitch bend data while I'm recording midi notes. Nothing significant, not like pitch bend an entire half step, but maybe +/- 500 (on a scale of -8,192 to +8,191). Like it's not snapping back to zero entirely.

In the past when this happens I can usually scientifically fix it by giving the wheel a good "wiggle" which tends to reset it to zero. But this time I've been wiggling it all over the place and even tried a few waggles, not helping. Still transmitting random data. Doesn't seem to be connected to bumping the keyboard or playing hard velocities.

I realize as I'm typing this, since I switched from my lovely Kurzweil about 20 years ago, my last three controllers have been Yamahas (because I love the touch), so maybe it's a Yamaha wheel thing? Currently using a Motif XF8 as main controller.

Wondering if there's any hacks short of taking the entire beast apart to adjust the spring/tension or replacing the entire wheel?

(Alternatively, I could just ignore the +/- 500 and chalk it up to adding a bit of "color" or intonation, since in most cases that works out to about ~12 cents. But dang my OCD...)


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## dzilizzi

Maybe it is Yamaha. I've never had any trouble with my Novations. Or the M-Audio one. I sometimes wonder if I can just change the pitch wheel to something else. I never use it.


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## Sarah Mancuso

I've had this happen on M-Audio controllers before, so it's not just a Yamaha thing. I think it's the result of the same inevitable(?) dust buildup that causes old volume knobs to crackle. Aside from just disabling the pitch wheel input entirely in your DAW's controller mapping, I'm not sure if there's much you can do about it without having to open up the keyboard to clean it.


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## Kony

chillbot said:


> But this time I've been wiggling it all over the place and even tried a few waggles, not helping.


There's an innuendo in there somewhere  
Seriously though, I've had this happen on an M-Audio - also random volume changes which is only fixed by wiggling the controller. Could it be dust?


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## chillbot

Appreciate the responses. But hoping for something EASIER.


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## chillbot

Sarah Mancuso said:


> dust buildup





Kony said:


> Could it be dust?


Actually had not occurred to me, will try the super duper dust spray blow whatever thing, see what happens.


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## gamma-ut

Is there a recalibration mode? I've had this, oddly enough, on a Kurzweil and it seemed the software was getting confused as a recalibration fixed the issue. Might be worth trying if that option is there before cracking it open and cleaning it out.


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## AllanH

On Cubase, I'd insert a midi filter and remove the erroneous events. I no longer recall how to do this in Cakewalk


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## Land of Missing Parts

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I've had this happen on M-Audio controllers before, so it's not just a Yamaha thing. I think it's the result of the same inevitable(?) dust buildup that causes old volume knobs to crackle. Aside from just disabling the pitch wheel input entirely in your DAW's controller mapping, I'm not sure if there's much you can do about it without having to open up the keyboard to clean it.


I used to have this issue with my M-Audio controller. Lately it's been gone though, and I have no idea why. Other than occasionally wiping the dust off, I haven't done any kind of special cleaning.


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## YaniDee

I have a similar issue with an M-Audio Axiom 25 (v1)..it was moving by itself a few cents up and down. It has stopped doing that, but when it's in the middle, it sits at 58 (instead of the default 64).
If I nudge it sideways, it goes to 64..


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## robgb

I have the same problem with my m audio keystation 88e mod wheel. I use a separate cc1 controller and sometimes the two conflict and cc1 jumps all over the place. Apparently there's a way to reassign the keyboard controller, but even reading the instructions I haven't had any luck. Frustrating as hell and pretty random.


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## rgames

As already noted you should be able to disable the pitch wheel either in the keyboard or the DAW.

But yeah, that happens. I've had it happen on an older Alesis keyboard and a Yamaha foot pedal. The mechanism just gets worn out. It should be an easy fix. You can probably just order a new wheel assembly and swap it out with nothing more than a few screws and a cable attachment. It's probably not soldered in, but even if it is that's also pretty easy to do.

rgames


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## Nick Batzdorf

I'd suggest opening up the keyboard, unscrewing the pitch wheel, and taking a look at what's going on - assuming that just shooting component cleaner in there first doesn't fix it.

My first thought is that the springs that return it to center are stretched out and need replacing, but I have no idea.


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## chimuelo

Most PBend Wheels are mechanical and use a bent wire wrapped around the wheel like those hand held wrist squeezers.
They actually get loose and drift and sometimes need to be sprung again to get it to zero out.
Just replaced my triple wheel assembly on a K4 and it lasted for 5 years but Im always blending pitches, working the wheel over pretty good.


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## chillbot

Shooting compressed air into the wheel to clean it out did not magically fix the problem. :(



rgames said:


> As already noted you should be able to disable the pitch wheel either in the keyboard or the DAW.


Disable! No! I use my wheel on EVERYthing. Ask my assistant how mad I get when we get samples (marimbas, vibes, etc, and SPITFIRE) that don't allow bending. I love to bend.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'd suggest opening up the keyboard, unscrewing the pitch wheel, and taking a look at what's going on


Yes, yes. And I was hoping to NOT open up the keyboard. It's a bit of a 70-pound beast and sunk into the desk, not as simple as you make it sound.


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## GNP

My old Korg Microkey was giving me the same problems. The worst thing is, both pitch bend and modulation were wired together when I opened it up, so there was no way I could simply unplug the pitch bend wires. 

I simply had to buy a new Korg Microkey. The wild pitchbend issue is definitely something all controller manufacturers need to look into.

I mean sure, I could simply block out pitch bend signals in my Cubase menu, but I do want to be able to use pitch bend when I need it. Having to block and unblock in Cubase all the time is quite irritating.


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## Nick Batzdorf

chillbot said:


> Shooting compressed air into the wheel to clean it out did not magically fix the problem. :(
> 
> Yes, yes. And I was hoping to NOT open up the keyboard. It's a bit of a 70-pound beast and sunk into the desk, not as simple as you make it sound.




It's very simple - for me, since I'm just sitting in my armchair.



You might try actual contact cleaner, not just compressed air. But this isn't the OT politics section - when it comes to things like PB wheels, Chim would know what he's talking about.


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## jonnybutter

This happened to me with my beloved Alesis Quadrasynth. I'm not a good enough tech to have fixed it myself, but my tech said he probably could - for quite a bit more than the keyboard was worth. The comment above about the wheel getting re-sprung rings a bell. This Alesis had 'space age' skewed pitch and mod wheels, so maybe it was a special spring? Anyway, the keyboard was like 20+ years old at that point, so I let it go . Built like a tank and nothing else wrong with it (other than some of the onboard sounds of course - although nothing that couldn't be fixed by distorting the crap out of them).


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## Mystic

I've had to replace the wheel pot on several of mine before. It's a pain but cheap fix compared to other options. If you know how to solder, it's not too difficult. Sometimes they just get worn out, I think.


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## chillbot

Well I just had a ridiculous palm-to-the-face moment (we call it a @rotho moment). I don't think I could feel any dumber, one of those things where you don't see the shit that's right in front of you.

Hey @Jdiggity1 is the pitch bend wheel you ordered for the Motif returnable?

Anyway, of interest to my problem is the fact that I have six (6) keyboards connected to my DAW which includes a grand total of six (6) different pitch bend wheels.

Of course three are in the other room and two are over in the corner, only the Motif sits directly in front of me in my line of sight. But they all send midi messages.

I powered the Motif off, hit record on the DAW, and you'd never guess what it was still recording.


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## Jdiggity1

chillbot said:


> Well I just had a ridiculous palm-to-the-face moment (we call it a @rotho moment). I don't think I could feel any dumber, one of those things where you don't see the shit that's right in front of you.
> 
> Hey @Jdiggity1 is the pitch bend wheel you ordered for the Motif returnable?
> 
> Anyway, of interest to my problem is the fact that I have six (6) keyboards connected to my DAW which includes a grand total of six (6) different pitch bend wheels.
> 
> Of course three are in the other room and two are over in the corner, only the Motif sits directly in front of me in my line of sight. But they all send midi messages.
> 
> I powered the Motif off, hit record on the DAW, and you'd never guess what it was still recording.



....... oh


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## chillbot

Jdiggity1 said:


> oh


OK but in my defense the Motif pitch bend wheel *has* sent extraneous info in the past, I could verify it by pounding harder than normal on the keyboard, and fix it by giving the wheel a good jiggle. So it never occurred to me that another wheel would have malfunctioned simultaneously. (Or to be honest, it never occurred to me that the other keyboards had wheels at all since I don't use them.) But yes in hindsight, "we" skipped over troubleshooting 101.


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## Jdiggity1

chillbot said:


> OK but in my defense the Motif pitch bend wheel *has* sent extraneous info in the past, I could verify it by pounding harder than normal on the keyboard, and fix it by giving the wheel a good jiggle. So it never occurred to me that another wheel would have malfunctioned simultaneously. (Or to be honest, it never occurred to me that the other keyboards had wheels at all since I don't use them.) But yes in hindsight, "we" skipped over troubleshooting 101.


I'll find a use for the new pitch/mod wheel.
Perhaps a dimmer switch


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## iobaaboi

If on Mac, MIDI Monitor is useful for troubleshooting stuff like this:






snoize: MIDI Monitor







www.snoize.com


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## Mystic

At least it didn't require spending all day fixing it THEN realizing the issue.


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## santixolas

Hello guys

So, my axiom 25 pots are faulty too. So After trying the cleaning method i opened the keyboard, desolder the pots, measure them (10k) and order some new ones (those ones - PTV111-1415A-B103) 

https://pt.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PTV111-1415A-B103?qs=okKRLHKnSlan/x7xrUU2XQ==
Now, it is no working properly. the range is very short on both. when assembled in the keyboard instead of the 0-127 range i get 50-80.
You would expect them to have a lower resistance like 5k for example but they don't even exist in these models in the catalogs and in addition to that when measure the old ones they are 10k...
Either it's their resistance curve or I'm missing something

I used those pots because they are linear and that made some sense to me. But now i'm wondering if they are logarithm??

A didn't found any schematics on web and even opened some tickets at m-audio support but nobody replies.

Can anyone with knowledge of electronics help find the pots i need for the keyboard?

i'll leave a photo of them.

Thanks


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## Pier

Jesus I thought I was going crazy. Today I started hearing some weird pitch drift.

Turns out my crappy controller has started to send pitch bend messages... the wheel itself seems ok though so I guess it's something electronic.

I've had this Nektar GX 49 for only 4-5 years. It's really a pos but it fits well under my desk on a tray since it's quite compact.

Time to buy a new controller...






Edit:

I just ended up cutting the cables of the pitch bend module. So far so good. I never use pitch bend anyway.


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## santixolas

I order some pots from NOVATION Impulse 61 and it worked!!
M-Audio never answered my inquires (i've write 5 for several countries) so i've manage to speak with omnisonic-international in my country (NOVATION Dealer) and order two pots claiming that was for a impulse 61. Paid about 18€ (with shipping) and they are working like new.
Great Guys! 

So when i could i would replace my axiom for a Novation. Maybe a Launchkey 49/61. At leat the support will be covered 

https://www.omnisonic-international.com/


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## branshen

santixolas said:


> I order some pots from NOVATION Impulse 61 and it worked!!
> M-Audio never answered my inquires (i've write 5 for several countries) so i've manage to speak with omnisonic-international in my country (NOVATION Dealer) and order two pots claiming that was for a impulse 61. Paid about 18€ (with shipping) and they are working like new.
> Great Guys!
> 
> So when i could i would replace my axiom for a Novation. Maybe a Launchkey 49/61. At leat the support will be covered
> 
> https://www.omnisonic-international.com/


hey @santixolas , what is/are the part number(s) for the the impulse 61 pitch wheel? I have the exact problem with my impulse 61 (random pitch wheel movements detected, despite me not using the wheel). I've disconnected the wheel from the main board as a result, but would love to fix it.


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## ed buller

Ghost of Jan Hammer......common problem.....you'll need an exorcist 

best

e


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## TomaeusD

I've been getting the ghost pitch bend on my Hammer 88. I know with Cubase you can filter out pitchbend entirely or use a midi transformer on a particular track, but is there a way to midi filter a single midi input device or use midi transformer once that covers all tracks?


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## HCMarkus

DeoxIT Fader F Series With Shop - CAIG


DeoxIT® Fader F-Series Removes Contaminants, Lubricates & Protects Moving/Sliding Contacts and Carbon-based Controls DeoxIT® Fader F-Series is a precision lubricant for moving contact surfaces (faders, switches, potentiometers and other mechanisms with sliding surfaces). It replenishes lubri ...



caig.com


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## Pier

HCMarkus said:


> DeoxIT Fader F Series With Shop - CAIG
> 
> 
> DeoxIT® Fader F-Series Removes Contaminants, Lubricates & Protects Moving/Sliding Contacts and Carbon-based Controls DeoxIT® Fader F-Series is a precision lubricant for moving contact surfaces (faders, switches, potentiometers and other mechanisms with sliding surfaces). It replenishes lubri ...
> 
> 
> 
> caig.com


My issue was in the electronics module itself.

I still got pitch bend ghost messages even though I literally cut the cables connecting the pitch wheel to the PCB.

I could have disconnected the wheels PCB from the main board but I would have lost the mod wheel and that would be a deal breaker for me.


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## dsteinschneider

santixolas said:


> I order some pots from NOVATION Impulse 61 and it worked!!
> M-Audio never answered my inquires (i've write 5 for several countries) so i've manage to speak with omnisonic-international in my country (NOVATION Dealer) and order two pots claiming that was for a impulse 61. Paid about 18€ (with shipping) and they are working like new.


Hi santixolas,

I've got the same problem with my Axiom 61 1st gen. Do you by any chance have the part number for the above pots. I just want to be sure I get the same ones you got. 

Thanks in advance,


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