# Most EGOTISTICAL investment ever...



## igwanna (Sep 29, 2018)

I dont really need it, im dying to get it, but PLEASE...

SOMEONE TELL ME THAT BUYING A ROLI SEABORD 49 IS THE STUPIDEST INVESTMENT ILL EVER DO,

otherwise ill shove 900 euros down Thomann's drain right now!!!! :||

its one of those things, its just looks so cool, but will it ever be integral part of my composition ethos? not sure, maybe not, my work leans more towards orchestral.

Its VERY expensive despite of being very well built, simple amazingly smart and advanced controller

but for 900 bucks, its something just to masturbate my shopper/gearhead ego for sure...

so if theres something you guys can tell me to avoid wasting this money, speak now or forever hold your peace. :DDDD


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## igwanna (Sep 29, 2018)

still_lives said:


> Let us know how it plays! I want one too


damn thats not helping much haha :D


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## D Halgren (Sep 29, 2018)

igwanna said:


> damn thats not helping much haha :D


I love mine

And, I've been noticing them more and more in people's studios. Plus, there is value added by the fact that you get Equator and Strobe 2, for free, and they are great synths. Cypher 2 is also amazing, and Auras by Slate and Ash is an amazing Kontakt instrument.


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## pmcrockett (Sep 29, 2018)

Buy a Leap Motion instead. They're like $80.


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## bjderganc (Sep 29, 2018)

The Seaboards are great, but they're not for every situation. Being an MPE instrument it sends out a TON of MIDI data. Many CCs over potentially 16 channels. This can be a headache to edit later, so it may be less useful than you think for composition.

The keywaves are likewise suited very well to certain sounds (slow evolving synths, polys, EPs, electric guitars), and maybe not so great for pianos.

I love mine, but it's very much a complimentary tool versus a main keyboard.


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## jules (Sep 29, 2018)

still_lives said:


> Let us know how it plays! I want one too


Can i join the gang ? 
But i think i'll modestly start with a roli seaboard block to see if it fits my needs before jumping on the big brother !


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## D Halgren (Sep 29, 2018)

bjderganc said:


> The Seaboards are great, but they're not for every situation. Being an MPE instrument it sends out a TON of MIDI data. Many CCs over potentially 16 channels. This can be a headache to edit later, so it may be less useful than you think for composition.
> 
> The keywaves are likewise suited very well to certain sounds (slow evolving synths, polys, EPs, electric guitars), and maybe not so great for pianos.
> 
> I love mine, but it's very much a complimentary tool versus a main keyboard.


I agree with this assessment. Definitely a second midi controller, not a first, although, in Cubase, the extra information is pretty easy to deal with at a note level. Same for Bitwig, and I imagine Logic, although I haven't used that in years.


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## igwanna (Sep 29, 2018)

how do you guys integrate it with kontakt, i bet it must be a midi headache

i would definetely use it for solo strings woodwinds and brass alot.... but for what i know, if i dont use their o wn software , its a pain to setup with kontakt!


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## D Halgren (Sep 29, 2018)

igwanna said:


> how do you guys integrate it with kontakt, i bet it must be a midi headache
> 
> i would definetely use it for solo strings woodwinds and brass alot.... but for what i know, if i dont use their o wn software , its a pain to setup with kontakt!


You have to set up multi's with a new midi channel for each note of polyphony you want. There is good set up info at Roli's site for all kinds of situations.


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## igwanna (Sep 29, 2018)

let me quickly think what else could i do with 900€ just before i lose my mind! PP


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## heisenberg (Sep 29, 2018)

Try a ROLI Block first. More current tech in it and less money. See if it is for you.

https://roli.com/products/blocks/seaboard-block

I think the Seaboard Rise is very long in the tooth for this company and they will be updating it soon. But if you are burning a hole, just DO IT!


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## igwanna (Sep 29, 2018)

thing is if i hate the block , specially for being just one and a 1/2 octaves, in my country i wont be able to sell it second hand :| also doesnt bring bundled software i guess


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## chocobitz825 (Sep 29, 2018)

igwanna said:


> thing is if i hate the block , specially for being just one and a 1/2 octaves, in my country i wont be able to sell it second hand :| also doesnt bring bundled software i guess



a roli block wouldnt be a total waste. its portable, and you can link it to any of the other blocks including additional seaboards to extend the range (link two of them for 48 keys). if you end up liking it, and buying the 49key, there are still ways to use it either for extended range, or maybe altering its midi settings to provide different effects than the 44 key. The only thing you really need to be careful about is that it doesnt play like a normal keyboard. So the practicality of 44 keys on this type of keyboard depends on what and how you're playing. you could end up buying the 44 and realizing its totally not playable in the way you think, and that'd be a bigger waste. At the very least I've found that the roli is a really great expression controller even if you dont play the midi notes on it.


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## igwanna (Sep 29, 2018)

chocobitz825 said:


> a roli block wouldnt be a total waste. its portable, and you can link it to any of the other blocks including additional seaboards to extend the range (link two of them for 48 keys). if you end up liking it, and buying the 49key, there are still ways to use it either for extended range, or maybe altering its midi settings to provide different effects than the 44 key. The only thing you really need to be careful about is that it doesnt play like a normal keyboard. So the practicality of 44 keys on this type of keyboard depends on what and how you're playing. you could end up buying the 44 and realizing its totally not playable in the way you think, and that'd be a bigger waste. At the very least I've found that the roli is a really great expression controller even if you dont play the midi notes on it.




that makes alot of sense, sepecially bcoz i already have my 88 and 61 keys in the studio. but some times m chords span more than 1 and a half octaves.


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## heisenberg (Sep 29, 2018)

You will be mitigating your losses as well. If you hate the Block, you will hate the Seaboard Rise. Again, the Block has more advanced tech, the Seaboard will be superseded soon. It should have happened already, in my view. You can also string Block keyboards together. A whack of investment capital has gone into ROLI about a year or so ago. We should expect some big things to come out of ROLI beyond what they have already issued. The big deal about ROLI keyboards is they are a bonified instrument that you have to learn. That is what you are buying into. Both the Rise and the Block will allow you to find out if you want to invest the time to learn how to play it. Either keyboard will facilitate that. One costs over a grand, the other costs a few hundred. Give it a think.


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## chocobitz825 (Sep 29, 2018)

heisenberg said:


> You will be mitigating your losses as well. If you hate the Block, you will hate the Seaboard Rise. Again, the Block has more advanced tech, the Seaboard will be superseded soon. It should have happened already, in my view. You can also string Block keyboards together. A whack of investment capital has gone into ROLI about a year or so ago. We should expect some big things to come out of ROLI beyond what they have already issued. Give it a think.



looking at the prices you could get the songmaker kit that includes the lightblock and loop block, then buy a second seaboard block to extend it to 48 keys, for less than the cost of the one 49 key seaboard rise. just things to consider really.


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## YaniDee (Sep 29, 2018)

You've probably seen this, good example of some of the possibilities..but I can't help but feel that all this technology is still mainly emulating what any "traditional" musician playing in the subway for spare change can do with less hassle..


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## chocobitz825 (Sep 29, 2018)

YaniDee said:


> You've probably seen this, good example of some of the possibilities..but I can't help but feel that all this technology is still mainly emulating what any "traditional" musician playing in the subway for spare change can do with less hassle..




I think thats the point...unless you wanted to invite that subway musician to come to your home studio and drop some bars.


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## YaniDee (Sep 29, 2018)

chocobitz825 said:


> unless you wanted to invite that subway musician to come to your home studio and drop some bars


I've done it, works great (they're not bums and they don't smell)..what I'm saying is that it's become a keyboard and push-button world, with trad musicians being pushed aside by emulators..Mind you, I have terabytes of VIs myself..


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## igwanna (Sep 30, 2018)

when you say the block is more advance than the seaboard what does that mean exactly


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## Bill the Lesser (Sep 30, 2018)

Some "friends" invited me up to play a string section on a Rise, with the left-right pitch sensitivity set to high. It was a trap. Think Percy Faith on drugs. Cured me right there.


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## Chris Richter (Sep 30, 2018)

I didn‘t like it too much and sent it back. That’s the great thing with Thomann. Give it a try and send it back if you dislike it. 
For me it was just very different and while it was cool if you have a patch that works with it it just wasn‘t the expressiveness I would have liked. I have written something a little more in-depth what I thought about it when I head it (just search it).
For now I would also vote for the leap motion controller. Does the same for 1/10 of the price. But I also don‘t own it yet. So what do I know :D


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## jneebz (Sep 30, 2018)

CQrity said:


> it just wasn‘t the expressiveness I would have liked.


5 dimensional expression wasn’t enough?


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 30, 2018)

I bought the Seaboard Rise 49. Its pretty sweet. Its going to take a while to master. But I am looking forward to seeing what I can do with it.


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## igwanna (Sep 30, 2018)

i have the seaboard block added to cart at thommans and only now i realized, theres no sustain pedal input option..


...damn! :(


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## chimuelo (Sep 30, 2018)

pmcrockett said:


> Buy a Leap Motion instead. They're like $80.



It’s the best 80 bucks I ever spent.
Geko MIDI is what got me started. Since then what can’t you do is the question.

But there’s something about Hakken and Roli where two hands doing not only different parts but different controlling aspects independent from each other is enticing.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Sep 30, 2018)

I've owned (and sold) the original Roli Seaboard Grand (61 note) and now have the Seaboard Block. Both are vastly more expressive than any standard MIDI keyboard for monophonic lines. If you do any testing of a synth patch this is easy to demonstrate. I took a patch on my John Bowen Solaris (which has great wheels, a full ribbon, aftertouch, etc) that I had optimized for live manipulation and recorded my best take on a line using controllers. Then I did the same line with the Seaboard controlling the Solaris. No contest. The Seaboard is easily more expressive. 

It does have a learning curve - which should surprise no one. It is NOT a piano. It doesn't play like one. A lot of piano specific techniques for finger crossing and other things just don't work due to the aftertouch sensitivity. 

The Seaboard Grand did not have 5D touch, and has a very peculiar quirk around playing consecutive semi-tones. This is fixed in the RISE and BLOCK versions. The Haken Continuum is even better, but even LESS like a piano. It is way more expressive than the Seaboard - and significantly more expensive. It's the final frontier if you want a surface as expressive as a fine classical instrument. You will have to start from scratch to learn how to play it. 

The BLOCK version is my travel keyboard. It is small enough to fit in my backpack on international flights, and I use it with my iPad and in-ear monitors. 

Can it replace a traditional keyboard? I suppose that depends who you are. If you are mostly a piano-oriented person, I doubt it will do that. For me it is "that other thing", not, "I'm going to put the fall-board down on my Kawai RX-7 to play the Seaboard." But I bet there are kids in a bedroom somewhere that wouldn't care one bit about my shiny piano, and would happily plug their headphones in and spend hours on the Seaboard. So, know thyself? I don't think of it as the least bit pretentious. It's just a tool. If you spend the time (and that is a big if, this isn't instant gratification) it will open many new avenues for expressively interacting with synthesizers.


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## Chris Richter (Sep 30, 2018)

jneebz said:


> 5 dimensional expression wasn’t enough?



:D
No, the way it worked. Wiggeling the note for vibrato was great and felt super natural and awesome (although it just works for solo instruments). It’s the same with slide on the bottom or top which is the same control (pitchshift).

But then how to best control the other controlls, most importantly CC1 (to take Spitfire as an example)? The strips and the trackpad on the left are not as „slidy“ as would have been great. With little stops I lost touch rather easily and had jumps. 

With the „aftertouch“ I couldn’t control it very well too, it was too responsive and too hard to control. I couldn’t find a setting to make it work. With sliding up and down it is also difficult to control, as you would have to play on the top of the keys in loud passages which ist very difficult as the space between each key is rather small (the Seaboard has a different spacing than a piano).

So after all for me there was really no good way to control the most basic and important CC with the Seaboard in a satisfying manner and therefore I didn‘t keep it. A leap motion controller would be a better fit but I have still on my need to try list.
On the other hand the Seaboard is just great for playing in percussion because of the feel of the keys. Way better then my Kawai MP5.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Sep 30, 2018)

I don't use the Seaboard with VI's. Only with synths. The 100mm faders I have work great for fine control over VI parameters. In my mind, the Seaboard is for synths. I'm sure someone, somewhere is doing something amazing with VI's, but it isn't me.


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## Thorsten Meyer (Sep 30, 2018)

I went for the Roli Block Seaboard and love it.


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## X-Bassist (Sep 30, 2018)

igwanna said:


> I dont really need it, im dying to get it, but PLEASE...
> 
> SOMEONE TELL ME THAT BUYING A ROLI SEABORD 49 IS THE STUPIDEST INVESTMENT ILL EVER DO,
> 
> ...



Please, please, PLEASE try one first. I did at a NAMM 2 years ago and the feel was like tapping a rubber coated sponge. Yes, perhaps moving your fingers around adds expression, but the virtual instruments really built for it are not a huge list. In fact most the instruments I tried (probably 30 over 30 minutes) were not that impressive: AND THIS WAS A ROLI BOOTH trying to sell it to music distributors! I was surprised I disliked it, since I had cash with me to buy one and had my heart set on it, but it was a clear dud for me. After the bizzarre feeling of playing it and the lack of exciting instruments, I figured I saved big money by trying it first. My volume/expression pedals through a midi converter do a better job for me and still gives me 2 hands free to play. So find someone or somewhere to try it out first is my only warning if you haven't already, or it may end up being an expensive dust collector.


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 2, 2018)

I bough a Seaboard Rise 25 second hand from Ebay, and wanted it in particular for expressive string lines. I also thought that if I didn't like it, I could always resell it for very little or even no loss.

First of all, the build quality and surface of the Rise is in a different class to the Block. It's exquisitely made and extremely high quality. 

IMO, It is not a replacement for a traditional keyboard, it is, in fact, something quite different. It is going to take a while to get used to playing it, but my heaven, it is very expressive. It also takes some effort to set it up with VI's - but there are many tutuorials availble.

The only way I'll ever sell mine is if I upgrade to the bigger one. If you have a 5 minute fiddle in a store, you are not going to work out the best of it. There's a bit more to it than that.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Oct 2, 2018)

mikeybabes said:


> First of all, the build quality and surface of the Rise is in a different class to the Block. It's exquisitely made and extremely high quality.
> 
> If you have a 5 minute fiddle in a store, you are not going to work out the best of it. There's a bit more to it than that.



This mirrors my experience in owning the Seaboard GRAND and the Block version. The Block version is fine for travel, which is all I wanted it for. The portability is just amazing.


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## igwanna (Oct 9, 2018)

well guys... after reading everything you guys wrote, i just got my roli block :\

wante to go for the cheapest so that i can upgrade if i like the feel of it. got a great deal in thomann.de

im enjoying it so far, it has a slight learning curve. but it helps that my instrument at heart is the piano. so first impressions, great build quality great software equator, its way to smally in terms of key size im just getting used to it. but this is definetely an extra tool to play around in some specific music, kind of great if you can integreat it with kontakt, but i dont see myself doing it any time soon... bought a whole bunch of new gear... and now, i am, officially broke


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## Reid Rosefelt (Oct 9, 2018)

As long as your sustain pedal is connected through another controller you are good to go. It doesn't need to be connected through your Block.

I discovered that to really make a seaboard block work fully, you need to be able to adjust the 5D settings often, like you can with a Seaboard RISE. That's another reason they sell the RISE for $850, in addition to its higher quality and stronger build. For this you need either a Touch Block or a Lightpad Block. They kind of make the Seaboard Block whole.

Finally, if you want an XY controller like the RISE and have an iOS device, you can get Midi Studio from the app store
But it will set you back $1.99.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Oct 9, 2018)

For people who are curious about MPE but don't have the time to learn a new instrument, this is worth considering:



More info HERE


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## igwanna (Oct 9, 2018)

TigerTheFrog said:


> As long as your sustain pedal is connected through another controller you are good to go. It doesn't need to be connected through your Block.
> 
> I discovered that to really make a seaboard block work fully, you need to be able to adjust the 5D settings often, like you can with a Seaboard RISE. That's another reason they sell the RISE for $850, in addition to its higher quality and stronger build. For this you need either a Touch Block or a Lightpad Block. They kind of make the Seaboard Block whole.
> 
> ...



yieah my sustain is plugged on another keyboard.

also i found that i have to press really hard on the blocks keys. also im not an apple client so i dont have anything apple, no mobile stuff for me for now, i was surprised though that i was given full version of equator which is REALLY NICE.

also if i get a lightpad can i use it as the modwheel etc?


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## igwanna (Oct 9, 2018)

There he is the little guy!!!


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 9, 2018)

igwanna said:


> yieah my sustain is plugged on another keyboard.
> 
> also i found that i have to press really hard on the blocks keys. also im not an apple client so i dont have anything apple, no mobile stuff for me for now, i was surprised though that i was given full version of equator which is REALLY NICE.
> 
> also if i get a lightpad can i use it as the modwheel etc?
























Here are the things you should be able to see with the ROLI Dashboard software for configuring their products. For the sensitivity of the seaboard, you should be able to edit that in the 5D settings. As for the light block, there are a number of options for what it can be set to. As a fader, you can map to various CC which should include modwheel.


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## igwanna (Oct 10, 2018)

Bitz i can't see your pics


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## slateandash (Oct 10, 2018)

YaniDee said:


> You've probably seen this, good example of some of the possibilities..but I can't help but feel that all this technology is still mainly emulating what any "traditional" musician playing in the subway for spare change can do with less hassle..




This is what we tried to do differently with our AURAS library. There's so much potential there as a 'textural control surface' rather than an 'acoustic instrument simulator'. 

I'd also second trying a leap motion with our instrument as it works really well too, super fun!

S


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 10, 2018)

igwanna said:


> Bitz i can't see your pics


ROLI Dashboard





5D Touch sensitivity settings 




Lightblock Display Options 1




Lightblock Display Options 2





how about now?


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## MartinH. (Oct 10, 2018)

igwanna said:


> There he is the little guy!!!



Without zooming in, it looks in the image like you have over a dozen keys labled with a big red "NO" :D


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## igwanna (Oct 10, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Without zooming in, it looks in the image like you have over a dozen keys labled with a big red "NO" :D


if you mean on my actual typing keyboard dont even get me started on that, LOL

i got this key label layout from thomann for studioone only to realize its iin german and i have no idea what each means. so for me the whole damn keyboard is a NO... trying to learn basic german though :\


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## igwanna (Oct 10, 2018)

chocobitz825 said:


> ROLI Dashboard
> 
> 
> 
> ...




thanks alot brother. i couldnt seem to find this 5D option, ill look at it after work. thanks alot

also do you have something you can show us you did based off the roli platform? some music?? that would be great!!


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 10, 2018)

igwanna said:


> thanks alot brother. i couldnt seem to find this 5D option, ill look at it after work. thanks alot



no problem. just scroll all the way to the right and it should be there.


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