# Verdict on converting giga files to kontakt?



## gaucho (Jan 15, 2011)

I've read such a mixed bag on converting one's whole library of giga sounds to kontakt, ranging from "great except for just a few libraries" to "not really worth it except for very simple instruments."

What is the current thinking on this? Is there a single thread somewhere that lists the problem conversions? (Sonic implants I've heard)

I'm less worried about subtle changes of timbre or velocity response (I already went through that in the old days coming from roland and akai to giga) and I plan to make adjustments to subtleties. I'm more concerned with crashing patches or missing keyswitches, etc.


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## gsilbers (Jan 15, 2011)

the latest kontakt own's convertion is pretty good. i liked it more than soundlibs.
and as u mentioned, some patches will not translate perfectly, like in sonic implants. moslty its mod wheel and velocity programmings that will not be as in giga. plus 
something related to gs3 files or something... i forget. (maybe someone can help me out  
there isnt much of missing patches or samples really. i haven heard much neither.


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## wst3 (Jan 16, 2011)

I've been trying to convert my GigaStudio libraries to Kontakt pretty much since Tascam discontinued the product. I've had mixed results.

On the plus side Chicken Systems Translator (which is the basis for the built in translation) has worked brilliantly for most of my stuff, including all my SampleTekk libs (although he subsequently released free translations), the Presonus Orchestral Library, and I think all of the little freebies that were available.

On the minus side, Scarbee's basses were a complete failure, as was Garritan's Orchestral Strings. And since they were the ones I really wanted to move I find that quite frustrating.

I'll be watching this thread waiting for the secret answer...


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## wst3 (Jan 16, 2011)

gaucho @ Sun Jan 16 said:


> how do keyswitching instruments translate? Do they keep the keyswitches intact?



Seems to be a variable. Some translations hold the key switches intact, some transpose them, and one or two disregarded them entirely. There are options in Translator, and I think in the Kontakt Import utility, that you can tweak to get things close if it doesn't work the first time.


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## gaucho (Jan 16, 2011)

So here's a partial list so far of libraries to watch out for in a bulk translation:

Scarbee's basses
Garritan's Orchestral Strings
Sonic Implants String Library

Anyone else?


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## synthetic (Jan 17, 2011)

I've tried it on libraries by Project SAM, Sonic Implants/Sonivox, Scarbee, VSL, Westgate and many others. I have had almost 0% success. The only times I have gotten a Giga library to lond is when it was a very small, cheap, 16-bit Giga 2 library which is basically playing a wav file per key. Anything more complex than that doesn't work. I honestly don't know why they say it will load Giga libraries because it doesn't. I have tried Translator and I have tried the built-in system (which is also Translator.)


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## JohnG (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm experimenting with MOTU's MachFive2, which asserts that it can run Giga files natively, with no translation at all.

Just getting started but it seems to work.

MachFive2 has quite a few features -- FX, at least some editing, and works as a plugin or standalone, like Kontakt.


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## gaucho (Jan 17, 2011)

JohnG-
I've been a Performer user since the mid '80s (!) but haven't really gotten into mach5 too much. However, your post led me to take a second look. I just went to their website and saw: 

_"Special attention has been paid to compatibility with GigaSampler libraries, especially keyswitching and "dimensions". Open your GigaSampler, EXS24, or Kontakt instruments in MachFive 2 directly and preset characteristics such as key switch, release, and trigger-speed sample switching are faithfully preserved and ready to go."_

Thanks, John. Please keep us informed of your adventures with this. I might just go that way instead.


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## gaucho (Jan 17, 2011)

Hey, synthetic-
thanks for the warning. That's just what I'm worried about. I've got a huge library and I'm hesitant to open that huge a can of worms.


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## JohnG (Jan 18, 2011)

just tried a 3-velocity-layer MW x-fade violin patch from Sonic Implants strings -- this is now a rather old library, at least six years old, but it seems to load fine in MachFive2 and it sounds good.

cc11 works and affects volume but not tone. cc1 does have an effect but it's not smooth; more like an "on / off" for perhaps a sordino sound, or just a less aggressive bowing. All three velocity layers clearly work as they should. The transitions are somewhat abrupt but that's understandable with only three layers.

honestly I can't even remember when the last time was that I used a library this ancient so I can't remember for sure whether the mod wheel and pedal are providing the original, "designed" effect this is supposed to have. I can say though that it is functional and the tone is about what I remember.

I don't have Scarbee bass or garriton orchestral strings, and I am not even sure whether the latest Sonic Implants (now Sonivox) strings are the same as what I'm playing. Very likely not, given all the time that's passed.


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## JohnG (Jan 18, 2011)

tried a keyswitch violin patch from another very old string library. keyswitches are working correctly and are in the same places (same keys) as on the Giga.

tried a 5-layer "bluesmaster" lead from the old Quantum Leap Guitar and bass -- works fine.

MachFive2 may not translate everything perfectly, but I can report "so far so good." Maybe there are other MOTU-oriented forums where there is more thorough experimentation going on, but this makes me glad that I bought the thing, if nothing else just in case my Giga PC finally gives up the ghost, but in the mean time I'm thinking I'll just pull what I use of the older libraries into the Mac.


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## JohnG (Jan 18, 2011)

one thing I forgot to mention -- the first time you load some of the patches it appears that you have to re-save them. However -- and I am speculating out of paranoia -- possibly they re-save in some kind of format that makes them different, or even hard / impossible to re-access in Giga? I have no evidence of this, so it's conjecture only.

But, conjecture or not, I decided to copy the files first to a new location so that the originals are preserved as-is.

I'm pretty excited about this as a backup plan, or even to take the venerable Giga off-line.


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## gaucho (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks for the great info, John. 

My big concern is the "MW Xfade" issue that you mentioned earlier. The good, expressive orchestral sounds ALL use that option to create crescendos and add timbre change over time. If those are turning into ON/OFF switches (like velocity layers), then those fantastic patches won't be usable. 

There's probably a quick fix...maybe just a macro that can be applied to patches like this, and hopefully can be re-saved into a permanent state. (Even if the curve is slightly different than the one we're used to, it's still not a dealbreaker.)

Anyone tried adding these MW Xfades to patches that lost them when opened in machfive?


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## synthetic (Jan 18, 2011)

JohnG, I've converted with Kontakt and EXS24 and both of them save a copy of the instrument. .gig files have all of the wav files inside, where EXS and NKI point to a folder full of wav files.


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## JohnG (Jan 18, 2011)

gaucho @ 18th January 2011 said:


> My big concern is the "MW Xfade" issue that you mentioned earlier. The good, expressive orchestral sounds ALL use that option to create crescendos and add timbre change over time. If those are turning into ON/OFF switches (like velocity layers), then those fantastic patches won't be usable.



I would caution against concluding from a single example that the MW conversion doesn't work at all. Honestly I can't even remember what effect on this library the MW originally had because I haven't touched it in so long, so what I am hearing may be what it did in the first place.

Maybe you (or anyone) could PM me with one or more specific examples of patches for testing? I think a few tests makes sense. Maybe someone else with MachFive2 could weigh in as well?

Naturally if it doesn't work, there is an issue, but I would be skeptical that MOTU would make such a blanket claim that hasn't got a pretty strong basis.


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## gaucho (Jan 18, 2011)

John, you're right. Some MW Xfade patches just shift between a down bow and an up bow. I would LOVE to know if these 2 expressive patches have smooth mod wheel Xfades:

H2 legato MW>Xfade R 
(Sonic implants symphonic brass/horns)



1st Violins Legato Down MW>XFade R 
(Sonic Implants Strings/1st violins)

I posted on a MachFive forum, but no replies to Gigafile questions yet.


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## JT3_Jon (Jan 18, 2011)

Just because it hasn't been mentioned yet, but there is another software alternative for playing giga libs on mac/pc: http://www.soundlib.com/gplayer/


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## gsilbers (Jan 18, 2011)

JT3_Jon @ Tue Jan 18 said:


> Just because it hasn't been mentioned yet, but there is another software alternative for playing giga libs on mac/pc: http://www.soundlib.com/gplayer/



sadly it will have the same problems than the cdxtract convertions. 
but still a good alternative. its also 64 bit


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## JohnG (Jan 20, 2011)

gaucho @ 18th January 2011 said:


> J I would LOVE to know if these 2 expressive patches have smooth mod wheel Xfades:
> 
> 1st Violins Legato Down MW>XFade R
> (Sonic Implants Strings/1st violins)



Hi gaucho,

Alas, I tried the 1st Violins Legato Down MW>XFAde R and it seems to have come in ok, but not the Modwheel effect. There may be some way to add it in, but I haven't seen it yet.

I didn't do the horns yet as I'm not sure whether I have that one or not


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## gaucho (Jan 21, 2011)

thank you so much for trying that, John. I'm going to post a question at motunation to see if machfive users have a quick tweek for this problem.

We'll figure this all out...


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## Robert Kooijman (Jan 31, 2011)

K4 does IMO a pretty good job with converting Giga libs, even in GS3 format.
It helps keeping a standard directory structure with instruments, samples and documentation folders after extraction.

Older Kontakt versions sometimes made a terrible mess, duplicated WAVs etc. Things have improved a lot!

For SISS users, there are newly programmed patches available for K3 and K4:

http://www.sonivoxmi.com/ProductDetail.asp?Item=CDSymphonicCollection&Fr=SymphonicReviews (http://www.sonivoxmi.com/ProductDetail. ... nicReviews)


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## cdxman (Feb 7, 2011)

gsilbers @ Tue Jan 18 said:


> sadly it will have the same problems than the cdxtract convertions.
> but still a good alternative. its also 64 bit



There is a misunderstanding here, Soundlib G-Player doesn't do any conversion and therefore is not based on cdxtract. G-Player is a Gigastudio emulator and will play all your giga files directly without any conversion. We do a lot of A/B between Gigastudio and G-Player, including spectral analysis, until we get nearly identical results.
There are also many advantages of using a Giga player not based on conversion:
- G-Player can play and stream a 800MB gigapiano while Kontakt must convert it to a 1.6GB library, requiring twice the streaming than with G-Player.
- Every time a new Kontakt import improvement is released, you must reconvert all your Giga files to benefit from this improvement. While with every new version of G-Player, all your Giga libraries will automatically benefit from the improvements.
Check yourself with the free demo version: http://www.soundlib.com/gplayer


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## polypx (Feb 7, 2011)

@cdxman

Is it possible to build new instruments with Gplayer?

Or will it only play existing Giga libraries?

cheers
Dan


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## cdxman (Feb 7, 2011)

It will only play existing libraries, but you can use our other software Samplit to create new Gigastudio instruments.

Bernard


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