# Which 64-bit OS to install at this point in time (PC only)?



## Lunatique (Jul 20, 2009)

I plan on adding 4 more GB of RAM to my desktop DAW, maxing out the 8GB limit of my motherboard. I'm using WinXP 32-bit right now, and I'm trying to figure out which 64-bit OS to upgrade to.

With WinXP 64-bit, I suppose the good thing is that it's very stable by now and there's a driver from just about everyone for that OS, and will be supported until 2014 by Microsoft. But I don't know if developers will supported it until then, as many developers are small companies and only have resources to develop for one or two major OSes at a time.

With Vista 64-bit, It's the only current supported mainstream OS, but it seems it had such a hard time in its lifespan so far that Microsoft jumped onto Windows 7 right away. I'm running Vista 64-bit on my laptop and it's fine, apart from a few 32-bit apps I use that won't even install on it. From the reports of people testing Windows 7, it seems everyone is saying 7 performs better than Vista. If I go with Vista, it should be supported for quite a while even after Windows 7 becomes the next official OS, but how long will it be supported when the pre-orders of Windows 7 already outsold Vista?

With Windows 7, it seems all the audio people are very happy with its performance, but since it's not officially out yet, many vendors do not have drivers for it. Also, based on my understanding, if you install the Release Candidate version now, you'd still have to reinstall the commercial version later, so that means you'd have to reinstall everything again.

So it seems like the only safe bet right now is Vista.? Your thoughts?


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## germancomponist (Jul 20, 2009)

I am in the same situation. I think I will work with my existing set and wait. I hate it to install, reinstall, install, reinstall..., and the NI Cervice Center... . :D


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## ComposerDude (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: Which 64-bit OS to install at this point in time?*

Since the thread topic technically didn't restrict us to PCs... and just in case you're willing to consider another platform...

Mac OS X will support huge amounts of memory on a very stable OS. You can get 32GB on the motherboard.


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## Lunatique (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: Which 64-bit OS to install at this point in time?*



ComposerDude @ Tue Jul 21 said:


> Since the thread topic technically didn't restrict us to PCs... and just in case you're willing to consider another platform...
> 
> Mac OS X will support huge amounts of memory on a very stable OS. You can get 32GB on the motherboard.



No Mac--I'm a PC guy. This is for an existing PC DAW.


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## musicpete (Jul 21, 2009)

I am in the same dilemma.... Xp64 support was and is very unsatisfying. My solution is to wait for Win7 Home Professional.

By the way: Did anyone else notice Microsoft's clever marketing ploy (let Home Premium users use only 4GB RAM, force those who want to use more RAM to buy the otherwise nearly identical Home Professional) it pulled off in combination with the http://ulyssesonline.com/2009/07/10/windows-7-pricing/ (Europe-wide price difference)?


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## Stevie (Jul 21, 2009)

Hey Peter,

that's not quite true. Home Premium is limited to 16GB.
There is no Home Professional, only Professional. This version supports up to 192GB.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions

We're talking about the 64bit versions here of course.

But I agree, I find this very annoying, too.
I'm going for the Pro version, anything else is not worth it (the superior editons).


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## germancomponist (Jul 21, 2009)

Cool, and how much will it cost if I buy 192GB DDR 3 ram?


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## Hal (Jul 21, 2009)

am vista 64 on three of my machines including DAW works great

windows 7 looks really promising


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## Stevie (Jul 21, 2009)

germancomponist @ Wed Jul 22 said:


> Cool, and how much will it cost if I buy 192GB DDR 3 ram?



http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=ramddr3regecc


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## germancomponist (Jul 21, 2009)

Stevie @ Wed Jul 22 said:


> germancomponist @ Wed Jul 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Cool, and how much will it cost if I buy 192GB DDR 3 ram?
> ...



http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti..._a_PC_with_192GB_of_RAM_Dell_makes_it_reality


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## musicpete (Jul 22, 2009)

Stevie @ 22.7.2009 said:


> Hey Peter,
> 
> that's not quite true.


Thanks for the clarifications! Seems that I got it all messed up in my head... 
The price issue remains, though... However I can't say that I would do it any different if I were the Microsoft CEO.


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## Stevie (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh no problem, I just wanted to point out, that you can get Home Premium if 16GB are sufficient for you 
Yep, don't like that product policy as well.


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## germancomponist (Jul 22, 2009)

Are rumsticks good to use as ram? 

This would make it a lot cheaper. :-D :-D :-D


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## Stevie (Jul 22, 2009)

What are rumsticks?


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## germancomponist (Jul 22, 2009)

Oops, I meant ram-sticks...., sorry


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## Stevie (Jul 22, 2009)

Now I'm confused, you want to use RAM sticks 
as RAM sticks? That's pretty clever


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## germancomponist (Jul 22, 2009)

Oops,

I wanted to use RAM sticks as PC memory ram :-D


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## Hannes_F (Jul 22, 2009)

Lunatique,

I read your original post but your conclusion at this point



Lunatique @ Tue Jul 21 said:


> So it seems like the only safe bet right now is Vista.?



did not seem logical to me. From what you wrote above the safe bet could have been to skip Vista, no?


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## nikolas (Jul 22, 2009)

Actually xp X 64 is not exactly supported by "everyone". Finale 2009 and 10 does not work on XP64 officially (although it does work) and Cubase 5 is not supported on X64 systems (although, again, it works).


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## Lunatique (Jul 22, 2009)

Hannes_F @ Wed Jul 22 said:


> Lunatique,
> 
> I read your original post but your conclusion at this point
> 
> ...



Well, I wrote that because if I wanted to get things done now, I can't wait for Windows 7 to be finally released officially, and then wait for developers to release drivers for it. Vista is the current OS so it's the one OS where developers have no choice but to support. 

Of course, I could always hold off on upgrading to 64-bit for a while longer until Windows 7 is out and the developers have jumped on that train. It could be many months and up to a year from now though?


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## Rob Elliott (Jul 22, 2009)

All my PCs are x64 - just need everything work and that x64 OS track record (for me) is solid. Sounds like many are having good experiences with Vista 64 though. I am waiting to 'leapfrog' onto W7. Honestly it will be next late Spring / early summer when it will be ready for prime time with drivers, etc.

Until then things will just have to do. Hopefully my estimates are too conservative on W7 prime time use.


Rob


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## Lunatique (Jul 22, 2009)

chimuelo @ Wed Jul 22 said:


> For a decision that is immediate, Vista for a laptop, XP64 for a DAW.
> In Janurary hardware and software developers I spoke with at NAMM advised this, and until W7 is actually available I don't see a reason to disbelieve the advice.



I wonder why the split between desktop and laptop? Is it because with laptops the vendors are installing Vista as a standard so you have no choice anyway, but with desktops, you can put together your own and can choose an older more stable OS?


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## PolarBear (Jul 23, 2009)

Well, I'd say laptop hardware is specifically enough that there need to be new drivers on about every new laptop so you can be pretty sure that everything got drivers that's in it. It's not expansable too much besides defined connectivities (like USB, Firewire, ...). With PCs there are too many components that may have drivers but that simply are not up to date - too many options to fuck things up and it's probably better to rely on something known to be a working solution most of the time.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 23, 2009)

*URGENT - READ!!!*



Lunatique @ Tue Jul 21 said:


> I'm using WinXP 32-bit right now...



This probably means you have a 32-bit processor. Not necessarily, but probably. If so, you will NOT be able to upgrade to Vista 64-bit. A 64-bit OS requires a 64-bit processor. If you try to install Vista 64-bit with a 32-bit CPU, Windows will tell you that you can't, and you will not be able to install the OS. Consider this before simply buying a new OS.

Cheers.


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## Lunatique (Jul 23, 2009)

RiffWraith @ Thu Jul 23 said:


> *URGENT - READ!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The CPU is Q6600, which I'm pretty sure supports 64 bit?


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## RiffWraith (Jul 23, 2009)

Ah, ok. The Q6600 is in fact a 64-bit processor. 

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=29 ... L9UM,SLACR

Just wanted to make you aware that if you didn't have one, you would have to get one.

Cheers.


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## Lunatique (Jul 23, 2009)

How does one match up the CPU speed with the RAM speed? I have Geil Black Dragon DDR2 800MHz right now, and I remember when I first put together this system, that was the recommended speed for the CPU, as I was told 1066MHz is not worth the extra cost for such little gain in performance. So now I'm looking to add another 4GB of the Black Dragon 800 MHz, I'm wondering about this issue again.


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## Stevie (Jul 23, 2009)

Yes, that's basically right. More than 800 MHz RAM does not result in much gain, UNLESS you want to overclock. Then you need faster RAM, since you will be increasing the FSB.


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## rayinstirling (Jul 24, 2009)

I run Vista x64 and a Q6600 on x64 motherboard.

Cubase 5 x64 runs quite nicely with VSL x64 and Play x64 Kontakt 3.5 etc. but.

Big problem is bridging Altiverb 32bit.

any ideas from the floor?

Ray


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## Stevie (Jul 24, 2009)

Did you try JBridge?


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## rayinstirling (Jul 24, 2009)

Stevie @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> Did you try JBridge?



Yes Stevie,

I have jBridge and I thought it worked at first but I was wrong because I had left altiverb.dll in a folder where Steinberg's bridge picked it up.

JF tells me he is struggling with Altiverb which is sad because I can live without a few plugins but not Altiverb.

BFD2 etc no problems with jBridge

I haven't tried Waves GTR3 yet

Ray


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## janila (Jul 24, 2009)

Hal @ Wed Jul 22 said:


> am vista 64 on three of my machines including DAW works great


I have two Vista 64 computers and I can't really understand what the bitching about Vista is all about. It's not OS X but it's by far the best Windows ever.


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## Stevie (Jul 24, 2009)

rayinstirling @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> I have jBridge and I thought it worked at first but I was wrong because I had left altiverb.dll in a folder where Steinberg's bridge picked it up.
> 
> JF tells me he is struggling with Altiverb which is sad because I can live without a few plugins but not Altiverb.
> 
> ...



Damn, that sucks then. Let's hope JF finds a solution.


Vista best Windows eva?

*cough* no *cough* bloody *cough* way
Vista is a damn resource hog. When you load it up it takes like 800-900 MB RAM
just for pre-caching. I tried to "fill" my RAM when I had it installed. It didn't work.
There's no way to deactivate that pre-caching either or to even remove it with nLite.


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## rayinstirling (Jul 24, 2009)

Stevie @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> Damn, that sucks then. Let's hope JF finds a solution.
> 
> 
> Vista best Windows eva?
> ...



Have you looked at Cacheman 7 ?


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## Stevie (Jul 24, 2009)

Nope, but no need, I was very satisfied with the results of W7


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## rayinstirling (Jul 25, 2009)

Stevie @ Fri Jul 24 said:


> Nope, but no need, I was very satisfied with the results of W7



Well there are many questions following that answer!
compatibility with hardware drivers: MOTU 2408mk3 etc.

EDIT!

OK I'm taking the plunge with W7


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## Stevie (Jul 25, 2009)

If you have drivers for Vista, then they will work on W7 as well.


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## rayinstirling (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks Stevie,

After 6 hours I'm finally getting the system settled.
The ASUS system software was screwing up the whole thing but I've now deleted that and can move on. I had some issues with the video drivers for dual monitors but again that is now fixed so. Onwards and upwards!

Already I see more ram available :D 

Ray

NO no no! I speak too soon. When I shut down I get the BSOD.


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## Stevie (Jul 25, 2009)

Yikes, a blur screen? That's usually hardware/driver related. I would indeed not install this ASUS software stuff. Did you get the newest driver of your stuff? What's your mobo?


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## rayinstirling (Jul 25, 2009)

I'm going through the process of adding firewire and usb ......one at a time until I find the culprit.

EDIT!!!!!!!!

I found it.

My Tascam FW-1884.


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## Stevie (Jul 25, 2009)

Ah shoot, its not compatible?


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## Lunatique (Jul 25, 2009)

I'm now in the process of adding the new 1.5TB drives, and it's such a PITA since I don't have enough SATA ports or power cables available. I had a relative pick up a PCI to SATA card and he got me the wrong one--it only does RAID 0 and 1, but does not seem to allow individual hdd's to be used by themselves (he got me the Promise S150 TX4. What he should've gotten was the SATA300 TX4). I have to pick up some regular power plug to SATA power plug converters and additional SATA cables too. I might even need additional rails for installing the hdd's that have to be placed in the non-hdd bays (no more spaces). I'm one of those guys that's totally not a techie person, but over the years of building and upgrading my own machines. I have a giant box full of computer peripherals and gadgets and cables and screws and what have you. I hate sorting through them because most of the time I can't remember what they're for anymore, and some are most likely legacy stuff for the two legacy computers I have collecting dust.


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## PolarBear (Jul 26, 2009)

If you're going to throw them at 5.25" bays with uncooled converters you may have to think about some fan cooling the drives if you're going to heavily tax them with streaming in order to make their lifespan a bit longer... just a hint, not a necessity. Combined with that you may think about some more silent solution to get rid of some of the noise adding to your machines with additional harddrives. For the power you could get some 4pin to SATA power converters or Y-cables. It may happen then tho that some drives won't start when booting the machine, that's an alarm signal that the used PSU is not delivering enough power then and that may go south sometime then also if you "override" that situation with pressing the reset button after some time (the HDDs keep spinning with that and won't draw the power the usually need on a cool start) - just telling ya because it happened to me already 

Btw. the Promise S150 TX4 does mention JBOD capability in its datasheet:
http://www.promise.com/marketing/datasheet/file/FTS150_DS_10-17-03.pdf (http://www.promise.com/marketing/datash ... -17-03.pdf)
Maybe you have to look into the manual for how to set it up. There seem also to be some other flavors of this controller out, (like in TX4-M) - so maybe your controller isn't that exact one, you should check that. However, I'd probably still return it if it's not at money loss because the other is the newer product (or maybe even get a less costly one for it).


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## Lunatique (Jul 26, 2009)

PolarBear @ Sun Jul 26 said:


> If you're going to throw them at 5.25" bays with uncooled converters you may have to think about some fan cooling the drives if you're going to heavily tax them with streaming in order to make their lifespan a bit longer... just a hint, not a necessity. Combined with that you may think about some more silent solution to get rid of some of the noise adding to your machines with additional harddrives. For the power you could get some 4pin to SATA power converters or Y-cables. It may happen then tho that some drives won't start when booting the machine, that's an alarm signal that the used PSU is not delivering enough power then and that may go south sometime then also if you "override" that situation with pressing the reset button after some time (the HDDs keep spinning with that and won't draw the power the usually need on a cool start) - just telling ya because it happened to me already
> 
> Btw. the Promise S150 TX4 does mention JBOD capability in its datasheet:
> http://www.promise.com/marketing/datasheet/file/FTS150_DS_10-17-03.pdf (http://www.promise.com/marketing/datash ... -17-03.pdf)
> Maybe you have to look into the manual for how to set it up. There seem also to be some other flavors of this controller out, (like in TX4-M) - so maybe your controller isn't that exact one, you should check that. However, I'd probably still return it if it's not at money loss because the other is the newer product (or maybe even get a less costly one for it).



Yeah, I'm a little worried too about the lack of case fan up where the 5.25 bays are. I might move the OS and Storage drives up there since they won't get taxed as hard, and keep the sample drives down where the case fan is.

For noise, I have a primitive baffle system I designed using wooden panels and glassfiber panels. When I need the studio to be quiet, I slide them into place (leaving just enough of a gap facing away from me for fresh air to be drawn in, and also in the back of the computers for the hot air to be pushed out). I have never actually used them when the DAW is cranking full power--I tend to only use them whenò$ô   ªH$ô   ªH€$ô   ªH$ô   ªH‚$ô   ªHƒ$ô   ªH„$ô   ªH…$ô   ªH†$ô   ªH‡$ô   ªHˆ$ô   ªH‰$ô   ªHŠ$ô   ªH‹$ô   ªHŒ$ô   ªH$ô   ªHŽ$ô   ªH$ô   ªH$ô   ªH‘$ô   ªH’$ô   ªH“$ô   ªH”$ô   ªH•$ô   ªH–$ô   ªH—$ô   ªH˜$ô   ªH™$ô   ªI8$ô   ªI9$õ   ªHš$õ   ªH›$õ   ªHœ$õ   ªH$õ   ªHž$õ   ªHŸ$õ   ªH $õ   ªH¡$õ   ªH¢$õ   ªH£$õ   ªH¤$õ   ªH¥$õ   ªH¦$õ   ªH§$õ   ªH¨$õ   ªH©$õ   ªHª$õ   ªH«$õ   ªH¬$õ   ªH­$õ   ªH®$õ   ªH¯$õ   ªH°$õ   ªH±$õ   ªH²$õ   ªH³$õ   ªH´$õ   ªHµ$õ   ªH¶$õ   ªH·$õ   ªH¸$õ   ªH¹$õ   ªHº$õ   ªH»$õ   ªH¼$õ   ªH½$õ   ªH¾$õ   ªH¿$õ   ªHÀ$õ   ªHÁ$õ   ªHÂ$õ   ªHÃ$õ   ªHÄ$õ   ªHÅ$õ   ªHÆ$õ   ªHÇ$õ   ªHÈ$õ   ªHÉ$õ   ªHÊ$õ   ªHË$õ   ªHÌ$õ   ªHÍ$õ   ªHÎ$õ   ªHÏ$õ   ªHÐ$õ   ªHÑ$õ   ªHÒ$õ   ªHÓ$õ   ªHÔ$õ   ªHÕ$õ   ªHÖ$õ   ªH×$õ   ªHØ$õ   ªHÙ$õ   ªHÚ$õ   ªHÛ$õ   ªHÜ$õ   ªHÝ$õ   ªHÞ$õ   ªHß$õ   ªHà$õ   ªHá$õ   ªHâ$õ   ªHã$õ   ªHä$õ   ªHå$õ   ªHæ$õ   ªHç$õ   ªHè$õ   ªHé$õ   ªHê$õ   ªHë$õ   ªHì              ò$õ   ªHî$õ   ªHï$õ   ªHð$õ   ªHñ$õ   ªHò$õ   ªHó$õ   ªHô$õ   ªHõ$õ   ªHö$õ   ªH÷$õ   ªHø$õ   ªHù$õ   ªHú$õ   ªHû$õ   ªHü$õ   ªHý$õ   ªHþ$õ   ªHÿ$õ   ªI


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## Lunatique (Jul 28, 2009)

I just found a solution to the 5.25 bay heat problem. I searched and found that there are products made just for that. It's basically fans placed at the 5.25 bay location, and some even have temperature sensors and also LCD display/control for changing the fan speed and all that other fancy stuff. I've ordered four of them (two for each computer), plus additional rail kits for the hard drives.


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## rayinstirling (Jul 29, 2009)

Lunatique @ Tue Jul 21 said:


> With Windows 7, it seems all the audio people are very happy with its performance, but since it's not officially out yet, many vendors do not have drivers for it. Also, based on my understanding, if you install the Release Candidate version now, you'd still have to reinstall the commercial version later, so that means you'd have to reinstall everything again.
> 
> So it seems like the only safe bet right now is Vista.? Your thoughts?



I'm now confident in saying Windows 7 RC is the way forward even now before the full release. Although it will have to be re-installed before next June at I'm sure a "keep settings" option when doing so will ensure not having to start from scratch. If not, I'm sure there is a save everything operation that will work.
It surely is leaner than Vista. I am now using only Cubase x64, following updates on the great little jBridge app which allows Altiverb use in x64. Steinberg's 32bit vstbridge crashes on a regular basis.

Since successful testing on my music computer I now jumped in and changed to W7 on this computer I'm typing into now.


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