# [Resolved] Will a better/pricier audio interface (and driver) improve playback for larger projects?



## Noc (Feb 27, 2021)

I’m having trouble with playback on larger projects. Small to mid-sized scores play back fine, but larger and busier files cause playback to choke, with crackling and stuttering that gets worse the bigger the score is, until it’s simply unusable with especially large and busy projects. (The audio exports just fine, if slowly; I’m just concerned with playback.)

My audio interface is a PreSonus AudioBox USB 96, which comes with an ASIO driver. I also have two other ASIO drivers, ASIO4ALL and Steinberg’s Generic Lower Latency ASIO Driver (which installs with Dorico). On all drivers, I’ve set the buffer size to maximum (typically 2048 samples). It still isn’t enough; the PreSonus driver fares worst, crapping out during even mid-sized projects, and though ASIO4ALL and the Steinberg driver do a little better, they still can’t handle larger scores.

I’m not certain whether the bottleneck is software- or hardware-related (see below for my current system specs). I’m planning to build a beastly new PC – 10-core CPU, 64 GB RAM, the works – and I’m wondering whether it’s worth it to buy a new, beefier audio interface along with it, or whether the AudioBox 96 I have will suffice if it has a more powerful system to work with.

So: Would a bigger, more expensive audio interface solve the playback of larger scores? Or is that more a PC hardware issue, where upgrading the CPU/RAM/etc. would work better?

Any advice and recommendations would be appreciated.

Current hardware & software specs:
OS: Win8.1 Pro (x64)
DAW: Sibelius 2019.5
CPU: Intel Core i7-4700HQ
RAM: 32 GB DDR3L
DRIVES: Crucial MX300 750GB SSD (system), Samsung EVO 860 4TB SSD (VSTis)
INTERFACE: PreSonus AudioBox USB 96

[Edited/rephrased for brevity and clarity.]


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## Kent (Feb 27, 2021)

It can


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## ned3000 (Feb 27, 2021)

A better audio interface might make some difference, but the most important factor impacting performance with larger projects is the buffer size. Increasing that will allow many more tracks to play smoothly, at the expense of latency when playing in parts live. There should be an option to set that in the driver's control panel.


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## Noc (Feb 27, 2021)

ned3000 said:


> A better audio interface might make some difference, but the most important factor impacting performance with larger projects is the buffer size. Increasing that will allow many more tracks to play smoothly, at the expense of latency when playing in parts live. There should be an option to set that in the driver's control panel.


I should have mentioned that – the stuttering happens even when the buffer is set to maximum (usually 2048 samples). This is true for all three ASIO drivers. I’ll update the OP with the info.


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## Marsen (Feb 27, 2021)

Could it be Win OS 8?
Sounds odd to me. But I'm on Mac. So maybe it's just me.


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## fakemaxwell (Feb 27, 2021)

Better interface will help for sure, but you should be able to run with a 2048 buffer, even with a junky interface. What DAW are you using and what plugins are causing issues?


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## Noc (Feb 27, 2021)

fakemaxwell said:


> Better interface will help for sure, but you should be able to run with a 2048 buffer, even with a junky interface. What DAW are you using and what plugins are causing issues?


I’m using Sibelius with Kontakt 6 & Play 6 and a variable number of sound libraries per track (I load whatever I need per project, I don’t have a big ol’ DAW template with dozens of plugins & VSTis), along with a couple plugins like EW Spaces II and Pro-Q. (I’m a noob so I don’t do a lot of processing at the moment.)


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## Laddy (Feb 28, 2021)

You could always try your soundcard with the new system you are building, and if it doesn't work, buy a better soundcard. I see you don't mention anything about graphics card - I think I've heard somewhere that the graphic card can also matter when it comes to audio problems.


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## nyxl (Feb 28, 2021)

It could be that a different audio interface will help, but the issue could also be in a lot of other places. For example, Windows Defender is known for causing issues when streaming samples, unless you exclude your sample folders from it. Or maybe your audio drivers don't have the highest priority for CPU processing.

Have you already followed some guides to optimize your system for audio work? If not, here are some that you could take a look at:








Troubleshooting Audio Playback Issues on Windows Computers [VIDEO]


Jump to a Chapter 1. Adjusting the settings of your audio interface2. Using LatencyMon to identify the issue3. Adjusting Windows Power Options4. Identifying the badly performing driver5. Using the ...




support.native-instruments.com









Tuning and Optimizing Computers for Digital Audio – Knowledge Base | PreSonus


Instruction and additional resources for those interested in Tuning and Optimizing their computer audio systems to: a) Bring those...




support.presonus.com












Optimising your PC for audio on Windows 8


Applies to: All audio interfaces Optimising your PC for audio on Windows 8All of the tuning tips below should be implemented if you want to achieve high speed, low latency audio recording and playb...




support.focusrite.com





Of course, if you're building a new PC soon anyway, you can also build that first and see if you still have issues, and then try these optimizations. Following one of these guides might also give you a better idea if it could be your audio driver that is the bottleneck, or if it's more likely some completely different problem.


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## Noc (Feb 28, 2021)

@Laddy —
I haven’t heard about GPUs affecting playback; I’ll have to look into that, thanks.

@nyxl —
I don’t think I’ve ever followed one of those guides, so I’ll definitely check them out. I’ll report here in a bit once I’ve noticed whether or not they help. Thanks.


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## rgames (Feb 28, 2021)

The audio interface can make a difference but it's usually at the extreme-low-latency end. If you're running at huge buffers (2048 is huge) then it's a lot less likely to make a difference.

I think the i7 4700HQ is a laptop processor - are you using a laptop?

If so, keep in mind that laptops have a lot of battery-saving features that can lead to significantly worse DAW performance, especially when working with large orchestral projects that stream a lot of samples. If you're writing with soft synths or only a few streaming instruments then you'll probably never notice.

So one place to start is to make sure you turn off all battery-saving features like processor down-clocking (i.e. make sure CPU is running at full speed all the time). Turning off wi-fi can also have a significant impact at times. Video cards and drivers definitely can make a difference.

Having said all that, though, I wonder if Sibelius is the culprit. I have no experience using it as a sample streamer but my suspicion is that the performance suffers quite a bit compared to an actual DAW. I use some of the built-in orchestral sounds in Finale and it's definitely not on par with an actual DAW in terms of streaming performance.

So, I'd say the sound card is not high on the list of things I'd worry about at the start. I think your poor performance has more to do with running Sibelius on a laptop.

rgames


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## robgb (Feb 28, 2021)

You might have better latency, but that's about it.


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## Laddy (Feb 28, 2021)

Noc said:


> @Laddy —
> I haven’t heard about GPUs affecting playback; I’ll have to look into that, thanks.


At least some people seem to have problems with Nvidia drivers, for instance. In some setups. I don't really speak from personal experience here, btw.




__





Best GPU for Real Time Audio - Rethinking Nvidia


good day, lots of rethinking lately. i built my monster tower last year. specified a EVGA GeForce GTX 1080Ti - 11gb. i didn't heed the Nvidia driver issues with latency. i am at a point with some upcoming projects where i need to squeeze as much performance as possible out of this PC. what...




vi-control.net


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## fakemaxwell (Feb 28, 2021)

rgames said:


> So, I'd say the sound card is not high on the list of things I'd worry about at the start. I think your poor performance has more to do with running Sibelius on a laptop.
> 
> rgames


Yeah, that would be my guess as well. If you want, run a test with Reaper (free, eternal trial) and see if it still sucks at 2048. My guess is that Sibelius has no form of anticipative processing, so when you have a high track count of VIs it slows to a halt.


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## Noc (Mar 1, 2021)

@rgames & @fakemaxwell —
I am indeed on a laptop. I’ve already long implemented every performance-enhancing optimization I can, since this is a desktop replacement (disabling battery-saving features, killing unneeded services, etc.). I also read through those audio optimization guides linked by @nyxl, and of the few tips they suggest I hadn’t already tried (disabling Windows Defender, setting processor scheduling to background services, etc.), none of them really helped my playback issue. Seems I really am just butting up against a hardware limitation.

@Laddy —
Very interesting. That thread (and the links in it) seems pretty conclusive – my laptop does have an Nvidia GTX 880m GPU, though I haven’t tried LatencyMon yet to confirm whether it affects my playback. I’ve always been an Nvidia fanboy, but it seems I might defect for AMD when building my PC if it’s that unanimous.

In short, seems building a more powerful system (and using an AMD video card) might fix what ails me. Thanks, y’all.


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## bill5 (Mar 3, 2021)

Yeah a better interface is highly unlikely to help or matter. This is a computer thing. You have tons of RAM and an i7 is great, but the 4700 chipset is weak.... and that matters more than the i5 vs i7 stuff. With a new system, you'd want something at least 8000 series ("8th gen") or more. Also as mentioned buffer settings of course make a diff.


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## Noc (Mar 3, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Yeah a better interface is highly unlikely to help or matter. This is a computer thing. You have tons of RAM and an i7 is great, but the 4700 chipset is weak.... and that matters more than the i5 vs i7 stuff. With a new system, you'd want something at least 8000 series ("8th gen") or more. Also as mentioned buffer settings of course make a diff.


The CPU I’m planning to buy is an i9-10900K 3.7GHz 10-core. Hopefully it’ll run my projects smooth as butter.


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## Kent (Mar 3, 2021)

Can confirm, 10900k is a great music-making chip!


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## Justin L. Franks (Mar 22, 2021)

Noc said:


> The CPU I’m planning to buy is an i9-10900K 3.7GHz 10-core. Hopefully it’ll run my projects smooth as butter.


The i9-11900K is coming out soon. It loses 2c/4t compared to the i9-10900K, but each individual core is supposed to be significantly faster. I'd wait for that if possible, to see how it performs. If it is a large increase, then go with it. If not, then you might be able to get a 10900K for a bit cheaper.

Are you not considering Ryzen 5000-series CPU's?


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## Noc (Mar 22, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> The i9-11900K is coming out soon. It loses 2c/4t compared to the i9-10900K, but each individual core is supposed to be significantly faster. I'd wait for that if possible, to see how it performs. If it is a large increase, then go with it. If not, then you might be able to get a 10900K for a bit cheaper.
> 
> Are you not considering Ryzen 5000-series CPU's?


Tbh, I don’t know that much about hardware. I just use PC Part Picker and select whichever components are powerful enough, relatively affordable, and compatible with one another. As it is the i9-10900K is already totally overkill for my needs (since I don’t use a template with hundreds of tracks or anything), so I’m not too worried about getting the latest & greatest on the market.


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## companyofquail (Mar 22, 2021)

Noc said:


> Tbh, I don’t know that much about hardware. I just use PC Part Picker and select whichever components are powerful enough, relatively affordable, and compatible with one another. As it is the i9-10900K is already totally overkill for my needs (since I don’t use a template with hundreds of tracks or anything), so I’m not too worried about getting the latest & greatest on the market.


Just a quick tip. If you plan on buying libraries in the future you will regret this decision. I am not sure what you use or what your plans are but I have seen some libraries released recently that can easily bring a top spec machine to its knees rather quickly. So it’s not always a matter of how many tracks or how big of a template but, a matter of what is being used at the same time. You’re already making a big investment. Make sure you do a little extra study on the AMD vs Intel info on here.


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## Justin L. Franks (Mar 22, 2021)

companyofquail said:


> Just a quick tip. If you plan on buying libraries in the future you will regret this decision. I am not sure what you use or what your plans are but I have seen some libraries out out recently that can easily bring a top spec machine to its knees rather quickly. So it’s not always a matter of how many tracks or how big of a template but, a matter of what is being used at the same time. You’re already making a big investment. Make sure you do a little extra study on the AMD vs Intel info on here.


Precisely. Spending an extra couple hundred dollars now will save money in the long run, because you'll get another couple of years out of your build before needing to upgrade again.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 22, 2021)

companyofquail said:


> I have seen some libraries released recently that can easily bring a top spec machine to its knees rather quickly


What libraries? 

For what it's worth, even a regular i7 10900 is going to be a beast for years to come, even an i7 10700 (non-K), which is what my new slave contains. I can assure you, these processors are no slouch. Even the 2020 iMac i7 is a 10700K.


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## companyofquail (Mar 22, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> What libraries?
> 
> For what it's worth, even a regular i7 10900 is going to be a beast for years to come, even an i7 10700 (non-K), which is what my new slave contains. I can assure you, these processors are no slouch. Even the 2020 iMac i7 is a 10700K.


i am in no way saying the processor is a slouch. off the top of my head some libraries that give me high cpu usage pretty quickly are abbey road one, bbcso, eric whitacre choir, pharlight, straylight, slate and ash cycles...

also one thing to take into consideration(i notice you are using a mac) i had better luck on cpu usage out of a mac than a pc, he says he is building a pc so i am commenting on that configuration.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 22, 2021)

companyofquail said:


> i am in no way saying the processor is a slouch. off the top of my head some libraries that give me high cpu usage pretty quickly are abbey road one, bbcso, eric whitacre choir, pharlight, straylight, slate and ash cycles...
> 
> also one thing to take into consideration(i notice you are using a mac) i had better luck on cpu usage out of a mac than a pc, he says he is building a pc so i am commenting on that configuration.


My PC is an i7 10700 (slave). I have nearly the entire BBCSO Pro loaded (along with many other VI's including Hollywood Orchestra Diamond), not even a hiccup. I can't speak for AR1.


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## companyofquail (Mar 22, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> My PC is an i7 10700 (slave). I have nearly the entire BBCSO Pro loaded (along with many other VI's including Hollywood Orchestra Diamond), not even a hiccup. I can't speak for AR1.


thats great to hear, i hope i can get mine to function like that. i have been optimizing it little by little and maybe when i am done it will perform as well as yours. i am i9-10980HK CPU with 64gb ram. i am noticing that i run out of cpu on these things before i run out of ram.


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## bill5 (Mar 22, 2021)

Noc said:


> Tbh, I don’t know that much about hardware. I just use PC Part Picker and select whichever components are powerful enough, relatively affordable, and compatible with one another. As it is the i9-10900K is already totally overkill for my needs (since I don’t use a template with hundreds of tracks or anything), so I’m not too worried about getting the latest & greatest on the market.


A very refreshing - and wise - attitude.


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## Pier (Mar 22, 2021)

@Noc you don't really need to get an expensive CPU, if you're not going to need it. Any decent modern CPU for desktop will seriously outperform your laptop's i7. For example an AMD Ryzen 3700X has 4 times the performance of your 4700HQ.

Also, think about noise. Big CPUs need lots of cooling. That can be expensive if you want a silent machine.

And you can always upgrade the CPU later on if you really need it. That's the beauty of desktops.

In terms of noise I'd recommend getting one of those Asus Strix GPUs which basically turn off the fans unless you're gaming. Also, don't skim on the power supply or the motherboard.


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## Noc (Mar 22, 2021)

Pier said:


> @Noc you don't really need to get an expensive CPU, if you're not going to need it. Any decent modern CPU for desktop will seriously outperform your laptop's i7. For example an AMD Ryzen 3700X has 4 times the performance of your 4700HQ.
> 
> Also, think about noise. Big CPUs need lots of cooling. That can be expensive if you want a silent machine.
> 
> ...


To be fair, I do want to splurge a little with this PC build, as it’ll be my all-in-one machine for gaming and other things and also because I want to future-proof it for the next decade. (Plus, the idea of an absurdly powerful PC at my disposal fills me with nerdy glee.) I’m just not concerned about buying the newest thing on the market, since that’ll likely cost a bundle more than the next best thing, which itself is already way more than I strictly need.

I’m also not too worried about noise; I literally have a standing fan blowing 24/7 nearby because I can’t stand silence (makes my ears ring). I think choosing quality fans with a decent loudness rating should be fine. Thanks for the recommendations though.


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## ProfoundSilence (Mar 22, 2021)

I'm still using my i7 5960x with 128gb of ram. And I'll be fine for probably another 3-4 years.

I regrettably upgraded from a 4930k because the 64gb of ram was just too restrictive. Even now I wish I had more ram - but what I got was feeasible enough of a purchase to avoid having to do a server build.

Now I'm likely to try to get a server build going next time ram hits absurdly cheap levels(i.e. if DDR5 came out or something and DDR4 became dirt cheap). I'm also still using a 980ti - with noctuas strapped to it because the fan assembly died. I'll coast on this even gaming for another few years - so do yourself a favor and by the most powerful you can reasonably afford, and then you won't have to replace it for 7-9 years.


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## Noc (Mar 22, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> do yourself a favor and by the most powerful you can reasonably afford, and then you won't have to replace it for 7-9 years.


That’s pretty much my entire gameplan right there. I’m perfectly happy skipping the “absolute best” and settling for the merely “very good”, if it’ll get me 95% of the way there without breaking the bank. Plus, as has been noted before, the advantage of a PC is I can upgrade anything at any time in the future anyway, so it’s not like I’m stuck with whatever I buy now.


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## ProfoundSilence (Mar 22, 2021)

Noc said:


> That’s pretty much my entire gameplan right there. I’m perfectly happy skipping the “absolute best” and settling for the merely “very good”, if it’ll get me 95% of the way there without breaking the bank. Plus, as has been noted before, the advantage of a PC is I can upgrade anything at any time in the future anyway, so it’s not like I’m stuck with whatever I buy now.


you might have missed the point. 

When I bought my machine, I spent quite a bit. The processor was the best non-server chip you could get*(just over 1,000 for the cpu), the mobo was ~550$ - and I spent ~1700 just in ram. It was an absolute beast, and is still quite a powerful machine simply because it was a beast of it's time. Had I went with 64gb and a 4790k(or even a 5820k) I would have already needed to upgrade by now.


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## Noc (Mar 22, 2021)

@ProfoundSilence I haven’t missed your point. “_[R]easonably_ afford” is key here; I have a bedroom setup here, not some pro studio, and even the $3K budget I have for this PC build is an extraordinary amount of money for me. I can’t afford $1K CPUs and $2K RAM, not when I have to budget for everything else too. Instead, I take stock of what I actually need, then aim as high as I can without getting into vanity expenditures. Even if I don’t get the absolute most cutting-edge stuff, it’ll still meet my every need for the better part of the next decade at the very least.


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## ProfoundSilence (Mar 23, 2021)

Noc said:


> @ProfoundSilence I haven’t missed your point. “_[R]easonably_ afford” is key here; I have a bedroom setup here, not some pro studio, and even the $3K budget I have for this PC build is an extraordinary amount of money for me. I can’t afford $1K CPUs and $2K RAM, not when I have to budget for everything else too. Instead, I take stock of what I actually need, then aim as high as I can without getting into vanity expenditures. Even if I don’t get the absolute most cutting-edge stuff, it’ll still meet my every need for the better part of the next decade at the very least.


Set aside for a year or two, or buy component at a time. Or just check places like craigslist for used servers. Those dell ones with the 12 core xeons and 128 gb of ram sometimes go for 6-700$

They sound like a jet engine apparently but still.


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