# Staff Pad Hardware compatibility list.



## col

Below are as recommended from Staffed website

iPad Pro (all models)
iPad Air (3rd generation)
iPad mini (5th generation)
iPad (6th and 7th generation)
Microsoft Surface Pro (all models)
Microsoft Surface Book (all models)
Microsoft Surface Pro X
Microsoft Surface Laptop
Microsoft Surface Studio (all models)
Microsoft Surface Hub
Microsoft Surface Go 2
Anyone have reports on how it works with other active touch devices ?

As suggested by Elephant - a break down of the main combinations of hardware and user methods.
Case 1
Using a combined tablet/display/computer as the entry device, drawing directly on and looking at the screen, effectively in absolute/tablet mode.

Case 2
A tablet such as The typical combined tablet/display devices like the high end Wacom Cintiq Pro screens, Dell's Canvas, and the lower end models from XP Pen, Huion, and others - connected to a desktop running the app.

Case 3
Running a large mirror screen from a tablet/ laptop 

Case 4
Using a cheaper drawing type tablet with no visuals into a larger screen/desktop. 


Adding:
Any windows system with a multi touch screen and active pen.
Windows vers 10 back to ?
Dell Canvas 27" touch monitor + windows .
Acer Switch 7 & wacom tablet
an i7/16GB Ram hp notebook + xp pen 15.6 pro graphics tablet.
Lenovo yoga c940
Huron HS611 drawing tablet


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## wcreed51

Any Windows system with a multi touch screen and active pen.


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## Jacob Moss

I use it with a Windows PC, and a Dell Canvas 27 touch monitor/pen input. Literally any multi-touch input with active pen will do on Windows 10. If you're in doubt, just think "windows ink" compatible.


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## nilblo

+1 for Windows PC + Dell Canvas 27" on an Ergotron Sit/Stand-arm.


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## wcreed51

Isn't the canvas only 1080p?


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## nilblo

2560 x 1440


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## jonathanparham

Jacob Moss said:


> I use it with a Windows PC, and a Dell Canvas 27 touch monitor/pen input. Literally any multi-touch input with active pen will do on Windows 10. If you're in doubt, just think "windows ink" compatible.


trying to wrap my head around this. I was looking at youtube videos from illustrators. So you have StaffPad Installed on a desktop PC with your libraries, then the Canvas plugged into that PC via USB? or HDMI? The brains of StaffPad are in the PC but the input is on the Canvas correct? 

This is very intriguing. Does the 'totem' work with StaffPad?


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## wcreed51

I've seen the Canvas for as low as $900 on ebay. Very tempting, as I usually work at my desk anyway. It's rumored that the Surface Studio 3 will make the monitor available separately. Probably still very expensive though.


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## nilblo

@jonathanparham You connect the Canvas both via USB & Hdmi.
The Totem is fine if Canvas is used close to flat. If the screen is tilted up, the totem will glide down as there is almost no friction. I have the Canvas screen tilted up at maybe 30 degrees so I cannot use the totem. Well, I could but it´s awkward holding the totem all the time, keeping it from sliding down. As I already had Surface Pro Dial which has a lot of friction, I use that one instead. You create shortcuts for the totem like you would for the dial.
I rotate the dial to go forward or backwards in the score. If I add "Shift" to rotating the dial, I scroll the score up & down..


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## jonathanparham

nilblo said:


> @jonathanparham You connect the Canvas both via USB & Hdmi.
> The Totem is fine if Canvas is used close to flat. If the screen is tilted up, the totem will glide down as there is almost no friction. I have the Canvas screen tilted up at maybe 30 degrees so I cannot use the totem. Well, I could but it´s awkward holding the totem all the time, keeping it from sliding down. As I already had Surface Pro Dial which has a lot of friction, I use that one instead. You create shortcuts for the totem like you would for the dial.
> I rotate the dial to go forward or backwards in the score. If I add "Shift" to rotating the dial, I scroll the score up & down..


Sick! I went to the Dell site and they no longer sell the Canvas 27 but a Dell Touch monitor. Not as impressive as the 27 it seems. Thanks @nilblo. I couldn't figure out the multi-quote as I would have asked you and @Jacob Moss


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## nilblo

There are also Wacom Cintiq that should work.. Multi-quote? If you´re thinking of multi-touch, it´s one of the perks being able to pinch-zoom in & out. It´s a necessity and I do it all the time - if some scribble isn´t picked up like I expect, I just Control-Z, enlarge and redraw. It´s really a quick way to write music. PLUS - you can play-record on a midi-keyboard. In Staffpad you can´t.


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## jonathanparham

nilblo said:


> There are also Wacom Cintiq that should work


Copy that.



nilblo said:


> .. Multi-quote?


I meant in responding to the forum



nilblo said:


> PLUS - you can play-record on a midi-keyboard. In Staffpad you can´t.


well I presume you mean in your DAW not Staffpad. Staffpad has no other input I'm aware of beyond the pen


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## servandus

I'm running Staffpad on my old laptop with a paleolithic graphic tablet which doesn't even have W10 drivers. Works great so far.


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## jonathanparham

just got off chat with Dell. The 24Touch replacement for Canvas doesn't support windows ink. I've seen videos of people using styli but oh well.


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## servandus

Huion and X-Pen devices seem to work with windows ink, although none of them are touch screens afaik. I thought of getting one of their 22/24'' models for my main rig, as I work much faster with keyboard shortcuts than touch gestures (I find "long pressing, then choosing Insert Text, then typing" kind of tiring when you can just "press T and type"). But I still hesitate, because I think a small tablet with good drivers for a multiple display configuration will be much less obtrusive in terms of ergonomics for my setup, and will work as flawlessly as with the laptop. Still pondering, though...


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## jonathanparham

servandus said:


> Huion and X-Pen devices seem to work with windows ink, although none of them are touch screens afaik. I thought of getting one of their 22/24'' models for my main rig, as I work much faster with keyboard shortcuts than touch gestures (I find "long pressing, then choosing Insert Text, then typing" kind of tiring when you can just "press T and type"). But I still hesitate, because I think a small tablet with good drivers for a multiple display configuration will be much less obtrusive in terms of ergonomics for my setup, and will work as flawlessly as with the laptop. Still pondering, though...


copy that. After seeing this thread yesterday I was exploring those options as well. I experimented with downloading StaffPad and my purchased add-ons to my 64 gig desktop. I guess it depends on workflow. I liked hearing Staffpad on my studio monitors as opposed to just tablet speakers or headphones. Bad news for me is I hear a bug on my 64 gig desktop (I7 3.2 GHz), is the same I hear on my I5 Surface Pros3&6. Which makes me wonder if it's me, Windows, or Staffpad.


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## wcreed51

What bug?


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## jonathanparham

wcreed51 said:


> What bug?


I'm not sure and sent it to Staffpad Support. I had purchased SF Chamber Strings and no matter which device I play it on; the audio drops out in the same bars. Not sure if there's something I accidentally notated or what. I took the eraser tool and went around the bars to make sure they weren't orange but there's a drop out; even when played back on my desktop. I tend to notate, as I would on a paper, by doing a short score then when I'm happy I create instrument staves then copy the work over. 

I've noticed on other occasions with Berlin or Spitfire in Staffpad there's sometimes an aural artifact leftover after somethings been cleared with the eraser tool. The measure is blank but if I hit play, it'll play a leftover note. I have to thoroughly erase the section. With the 'dropouts,' I sent a screen capture mp4 to illustrate. Wasn't a heavy score with lots of staves either.


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## wcreed51

I'll keep an eye out


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## jonathanparham

Welp I'm trying it.

I got a HUION HS611 but can't seem to get it to work completely with StaffPad on my desktop I realize it doesn't have it's own screen so I am writing on the peripheral while looking at my computer screen. So that alone will be a slight learning curve but I can get StaffPad to recognize my strokes. But there are a couple of other concerns. I cannot seem to get the Huion's built zoom to work with Staffpad. I can use it with web pages and other applications but not StaffPad. I have to scroll on my PC by CTRL and scroll on my mouse. Also, and perhaps those who are using the Staffpad on a desktop can share, but there's no eraser icon in StaffPad's menu. What's the workaround for this? Program the pen?

But I can see it's potential. it's nice having a larger work area than my Surface Pro to write with. Also the stylus and ink are more freeing on the Huion.


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## wcreed51

You have to turn the eraser icon on in Options


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## bcarwell

nilblo said:


> @jonathanparham You connect the Canvas both via USB & Hdmi.
> The Totem is fine if Canvas is used close to flat. If the screen is tilted up, the totem will glide down as there is almost no friction. I have the Canvas screen tilted up at maybe 30 degrees so I cannot use the totem. Well, I could but it´s awkward holding the totem all the time, keeping it from sliding down. As I already had Surface Pro Dial which has a lot of friction, I use that one instead. You create shortcuts for the totem like you would for the dial.
> I rotate the dial to go forward or backwards in the score. If I add "Shift" to rotating the dial, I scroll the score up & down..


Sorry, but as a neophyte to this what is a Totem ? I keep coming up with a pretty painted telephone pole.


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## jonathanparham

wcreed51 said:


> You have to turn the eraser icon on in Options


Thanks. yeaah I see it on my Surface pro in Settings. I was looking in settings on the desktop but guess I missed it. I'll check when I get back to my rig later


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## nilblo

bcarwell said:


> Sorry, but as a neophyte to this what is a Totem ? I keep coming up with a pretty painted telephone pole.


Microsoft Surface has something called "Dial" - With Dell, the equivalent thing is called "Totem".


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## wcreed51

jonathanparham said:


> Thanks. yeaah I see it on my Surface pro in Settings. I was looking in settings on the desktop but guess I missed it. I'll check when I get back to my rig later



I meant Options (Settings) in StaffPad


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## jonathanparham

wcreed51 said:


> I meant Options (Settings) in StaffPad


Thanks again. I'm at my desktop now and see I completely missed it. Thanks for correcting me. Still have to see if a drawing pad will help my workflow. I've never used a peripheral like this before so it takes some orienting. you helped me solve one problem now I have to figure out how to zoom to see the whole score without having to use my mouse.


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## servandus

jonathanparham said:


> I've never used a peripheral like this before so it takes some orienting. you helped me solve one problem now I have to figure out how to zoom to see the whole score without having to use my mouse.



Yes, using the mouse for panning and zooming is also something I'm not confortable with. I want my left hand to be always on the keyboard, and the right on the tablet, so I made a simple script in autohotkey to remap the middle wheel to the keyboard cursors. I'm used to work like this with other software, so it's the first thing I tried on Staffpad, and was glad to see it worked.

If you want to give it a try to see if it works for you, you just have to install autohotkey (it's open source), and type this in your text editor of choice:

Up::WheelUp
Down::WheelDown
Left::WheelLeft
Right::WheelRight

Then save it with the extension .ahk and double click it to run it with autohotkey. One nice thing about autohotkey remappings is that they're not permanent. You just run especific scripts for specific programs, only as long as you need them. This will allow you to scroll through the score by pressing the arrow keys, and zoom in/out if you hold down Ctrl. 

No doubt it might be a rather peculiar way to use Staffpad... but what to say  I find it very fast once you learn Staffpad shortcuts and get used to using the cursors (and will allow you to run it on your desktop PC without changing your display setup)

Hope it helps.


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## jonathanparham

servandus said:


> Yes, using the mouse for panning and zooming is also something I'm not confortable with. I want my left hand to be always on the keyboard, and the right on the tablet, so I made a simple script in autohotkey to remap the middle wheel to the keyboard cursors. I'm used to work like this with other software, so it's the first thing I tried on Staffpad, and was glad to see it worked.
> 
> If you want to give it a try to see if it works for you, you just have to install autohotkey (it's open source), and type this in your text editor of choice:
> 
> Up::WheelUp
> Down::WheelDown
> Left::WheelLeft
> Right::WheelRight
> 
> Then save it with the extension .ahk and double click it to run it with autohotkey. One nice thing about autohotkey remappings is that they're not permanent. You just run especific scripts for specific programs, only as long as you need them. This will allow you to scroll through the score by pressing the arrow keys, and zoom in/out if you hold down Ctrl.
> 
> No doubt it might be a rather peculiar way to use Staffpad... but what to say  I find it very fast once you learn Staffpad shortcuts and get used to using the cursors (and will allow you to run it on your desktop PC without changing your display setup)
> 
> Hope it helps.


hmm I should be writing but this could be a novel procrastination project. I had already boxed up the HUION and just uninstalled the drivers. hmmm What you typed above is almost a foreign language but I'm processing it lol


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## jonathanparham

servandus said:


> Yes, using the mouse for panning and zooming is also something I'm not confortable with. I want my
> 
> Up::WheelUp
> Down::WheelDown
> Left::WheelLeft
> Right::WheelRight
> 
> 
> 
> Hope it helps.


Ok I read what you typed out loud a few times. It seems I still have to use two hands to zoom. one finger on control and the other on the arrow keys. Without having tried it, it feels a bit laborious. However, I wonder if there's a way to map some of this to the user defined keys on the HUION tablet. Thanks again. . . exploring. . . . processing. . .


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## servandus

jonathanparham said:


> hmm I should be writing but this could be a novel procrastination project. I had already boxed up the HUION and just uninstalled the drivers. hmmm What you typed above is almost a foreign language but I'm processing it lol



Sorry if my "Spanglish" is adding to that "foreign language" feeling you have  

I just purchased Staffpad last week because I used to see it more as a very cool "music-toy" app rather than a serious tool for composing, but now that they've introduced the custom sample libraries and the synch feature in the reader, I can definitely see myself working extensively with it in the future, so I'm making a (loooong) list of suggestions for Staffpad's devs to see if some of them can be implemented in future releases. I'll mention default shortcuts for panning/scrolling . I mean, I understand the app is especifically designed for pen computers, but I guess it won't hurt them to widen their market by making it also desktop/graphic-tablet friendly.



jonathanparham said:


> Ok I read what you typed out loud a few times. It seems I still have to use two hands to zoom. one finger on control and the other on the arrow keys. Without having tried it, it feels a bit laborious. However, I wonder if there's a way to map some of this to the user defined keys on the HUION tablet. Thanks again. . . exploring. . . . processing. . .



Yes, I use both hands, left for the keyboard shortcuts (now including cursors to scroll and Ctrl-cursors to zoom in/out), and right to write the music on the tablet. But if your Huion model has programmable buttons, you can probably assign the middle wheel movements to them, and this would allow you to work only with the tablet as you do on your Surface.


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## jonathanparham

servandus said:


> Sorry if my "Spanglish" is adding to that "foreign language" feeling you have


Not at all. the language was the code. I 'just' got through watching my youngest daughter in code camp and thought of this thread.


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## servandus

I uploaded the script https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LE-iVNGOkJRFgDj2A3qXUoPI54ugOpFQ/view?usp=sharing (here) in case you want to check it out. Just install autohotkey and double click the script to run it (when you're done, just go to the system tray to stop it or exit autohotkey)

In any case, please let us know your impressions if you decide to try other options like the pen displays.


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## jonathanparham

servandus said:


> I uploaded the script https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LE-iVNGOkJRFgDj2A3qXUoPI54ugOpFQ/view?usp=sharing (here) in case you want to check it out. Just install autohotkey and double click the script to run it (when you're done, just go to the system tray to stop it or exit autohotkey)
> 
> In any case, please let us know your impressions if you decide to try other options like the pen displays.


copy that. I have some other work at the moment but will give it a shot before I finally decide to return the Huion


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## CologneComposer

That is an interesting Discussion. I use a Wacom Tablet, which works quite nice together with Staffpad. But I was also seeking a Solution for the Zooming function. So I will try the autohotkey Script as well.

I am using an Acer Switch 7 Device. The Stylus of this Tablet has just one Button, which is assigned to the Eraser Function. Is there a way to make the Lasso Selection work? Is there a Key Command whith witch I could trigger the Lasso Selection? The missing Lasso Selection was the Reason, I use the Wacom Tablet. But in addition with a Streamdeck it tourned out to be a nice Workspace.


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## Loïc D

A question to iPad Pro users : do you think that 12.9 inches is really recommended for Staffpad ?

In other words, do the extra 2 inches justify the extra size, weight... and price ?

My iPad is old (2012!) and I consider buying an iPad Pro, but still not decided on the size...


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## jonathanparham

Loïc D said:


> A question to iPad Pro users : do you think that 12.9 inches is really recommended for Staffpad ?
> 
> In other words, do the extra 2 inches justify the extra size, weight... and price ?
> 
> My iPad is old (2012!) and I consider buying an iPad Pro, but still not decided on the size...


i'm on win BUT on the FB group. People seem to advocate the largest you can get


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## Loïc D

jonathanparham said:


> i'm on win BUT on the FB group. People seem to advocate the largest you can get


Thanks, I’ll check the FB page then.


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## servandus

CologneComposer said:


> That is an interesting Discussion. I use a Wacom Tablet, which works quite nice together with Staffpad. But I was also seeking a Solution for the Zooming function. So I will try the autohotkey Script as well.
> 
> I am using an Acer Switch 7 Device. The Stylus of this Tablet has just one Button, which is assigned to the Eraser Function. Is there a way to make the Lasso Selection work? Is there a Key Command whith witch I could trigger the Lasso Selection? The missing Lasso Selection was the Reason, I use the Wacom Tablet. But in addition with a Streamdeck it tourned out to be a nice Workspace.



If your device has a touchpad, you just have to hold down the right mouse button while hovering with the stylus over the passage you want to select. Alternatively, you can add another key mapping for the right mouse button in autohotkey. For example, to use the CapsLock key add the following line to the script I uploaded:

CapsLock::RButton

This way the CapsLock key not only will let you lasso select passages if you hold it down, but it will also show the contextual menus when you only click it once.

Hope it helps


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## CologneComposer

servandus said:


> If your device has a touchpad, you just have to hold down the right mouse button while hovering with the stylus over the passage you want to select.



Thanks a lot for your advice. I tried it. It is strange, but my Stylus does not work like the Mouse in Connection with the right Button. With the Mouse right Clicking, I can do the Lasso Selection. With the Stylus there is no Reaction. The Cursor has another Shape aswell, when I use the Mouse or the Stylus.

Update: I can use my Finger in Connection with the Rightclick to Lasso Select. Thats nice!


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## muratkayi

I use Staffpad on

- an old surface pro 3 with i5/4GB Ram. Only the full orchestra files experience dropouts which is actually kind of insane when you think about it

- an i7/16GB Ram hp notebook + xp pen 15.6 pro graphics tablet. That setup is awesome! The xp tablet is really affordable and huge with a very nice paperlike texture. Undo, play/pause, scrolling up down and anything you can do with a keyboard shortcut can be triggered from the customizable buttons and the jogwheel on the tablet - and that really makes for fast editing. The tablet can be comfortably rested on a tilted stand. 

As concerns multitouch: most touchpads on notebooks nowadays are multitouch enabled, which means I can pinch-to-zoom on that while keeping my eyes on the tablet.


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## Elephant

jonathanparham said:


> Welp I'm trying it.
> 
> I got a HUION HS611 but can't seem to get it to work completely with StaffPad on my desktop I realize it doesn't have it's own screen so I am writing on the peripheral while looking at my computer screen. So that alone will be a slight learning curve but I can get StaffPad to recognize my strokes. But there are a couple of other concerns. I cannot seem to get the Huion's built zoom to work with Staffpad. I can use it with web pages and other applications but not StaffPad. I have to scroll on my PC by CTRL and scroll on my mouse. Also, and perhaps those who are using the Staffpad on a desktop can share, but there's no eraser icon in StaffPad's menu. What's the workaround for this? Program the pen?
> 
> But I can see it's potential. it's nice having a larger work area than my Surface Pro to write with. Also the stylus and ink are more freeing on the Huion.



@jonathanparham - Hi Jonathan have I missed something ? I just looked up that HS611 and was very pleasantly surprised. The biggest potential advantage I can see of using a tablet with a desktop and large monitor is writing on the tablet while looking at the screen, so you don't have to give yourself a PITN whilst writing. Did that aspect work out OK ? (I presume the HS611 is or was hooked directly into your desktop PC ?) Apart from the zoom issue, how does that configuration work in practice from the functionality and the ergonomics perspective ? Is is stress free, or is it tiring ? Any feedback would be very useful ! MTIA
E


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## jonathanparham

Elephant said:


> @jonathanparham - Hi Jonathan have I missed something ? I just looked up that HS611 and was very pleasantly surprised. The biggest potential advantage I can see of using a tablet with a desktop and large monitor is writing on the tablet while looking at the screen, so you don't have to give yourself a PITN whilst writing. Did that aspect work out OK ? (I presume the HS611 is or was hooked directly into your desktop PC ?) Apart from the zoom issue, how does that configuration work in practice from the functionality and the ergonomics perspective ? Is is stress free, or is it tiring ? Any feedback would be very useful ! MTIA
> E


*gasp* I haven't tried it since my last post. I'm working on other stuff and currently on the road with StaffPad (Minus the HS611)

It 'worked' but I've grown very accustomed to pinch/zooming all the time and sliding around the score on my Surface Pro. So yeah it was nice seeing StaffPad on my larger studio monitor and hearing music through the same audio interface as my DAW; but I didn't 'practice' with it. I'd need to orchestrate a minute or so of music to get used to it.

Off the bat it felt weird like typing or playing scales without looking to see where your fingers go. I think why StaffPad works for me is as a pianist I feel comfortable playing things into a DAW but with StaffPad I hear the mockup/playback immediately as I write notes on the staff as opposed to the piano roll.

So it works BUT I'd have to get used to it. I think for a few hundred more I could have a tablet where I 'see' the score on the surface as I write could work.
(edited for spelling and clarity, I was up late)


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## Elephant

Thanks Jonathan ! If you ever try that orchestration exercise, do tell !!


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## ProfoundSilence

Works great on my Lenovo yoga c940. It's my handwritting that it doesnt like


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## foxby

There is this one too:






Yoga A940 27" All in One Computer


Shop the Yoga A940 27" all in one computer at Lenovo ✔️ Engineered for creators with a 4K display, pen support & content creation dial ✔️ FREE SHIPPING



www.lenovo.com


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## jonathanparham

foxby said:


> There is this one too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yoga A940 27" All in One Computer
> 
> 
> Shop the Yoga A940 27" all in one computer at Lenovo ✔️ Engineered for creators with a 4K display, pen support & content creation dial ✔️ FREE SHIPPING
> 
> 
> 
> www.lenovo.com


good to know. About the same cost of the Microsoft studio


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## jonathanparham

Elephant said:


> Thanks Jonathan ! If you ever try that orchestration exercise, do tell !!


ok just tried again. Even after your script, I don't have the patience for it. At least not on a surface that is not mirroring the screen. I'm drawing half notes too big and not quite connecting noteheads.


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## Elephant

Thanks for the feedback Jonathan. The script though is not mine ....  

I have concluded a) that it is unrealistic to expect that SP will list hardware alternatives other than those from Microsoft and Apple, and b) that it is therefore up to users to take the lead in sharing information about both alternative hardware and ergonomic configurations, as the latter affects the choice of hardware.


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## jonathanparham

Elephant said:


> I have concluded a) that it is unrealistic to expect that SP will list hardware alternatives other than those from Microsoft and Apple, and b) that it is therefore up to users to take the lead in sharing information about both alternative hardware and ergonomic configurations, as the latter affects the choice of hardware.


perhaps you right. I like StaffPad LTD but they are small team


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## Elephant

The idea with this next post is to try to give us another dimension with which to look at alternative hardware - @col , as the OP, if your view is that this is OT, I have no issue at all moving it. However, for me, I find it impossible to separate the list of compatible hardware from the way the item will be used ergonomically, and by listing these explicitly somehow, it allows us to classify different hardware into multiple use cases.

Again to the OP, perhaps my classification is a bit too complex, and perhaps there is a simpler version that you would like to use in your original post, which you seem to be editing as more people post on this thread. I hope you find this extra dimension useful and might think of a way of adding this into your list somehow.

Many SP users and potential will be (or have been) looking for a way to make the whole experience as easy, fast, and least tiring as possible, both at a desk and out and about, and some people find particular ways easier.

From looking at this and other threads here on vi-control, these are the possible ways I can identify where people have had some success - if any of you good folks can identify others, all the better. So here goes !! If anyone can simplfy this, great - this is still in somewhat of a brain-dump state !!

Case 1
Using a combined tablet/display/computer as the entry device, drawing directly on and looking at the screen, effectively in absolute/tablet mode,
Case 1a) at a desk, flat on the desk
Case 1b) at a desk, tilted up at an angle of up to 90 degr.
Case 1c) on your lap, on the arm of a sofa, etc.,

iPads, Surface devices of all types from Microsoft, and compatibles such as Windows Ink/multitouch enabled laptops from the likes of HP (Envy), Lenovo, Dell and others seem to fit into this category.


Case 2, as per case 1 but using a desktop PC with a combined tablet/display connected to it.
Again we might have sub case types 2a, 2b, and perhaps 2c. The typical combined tablet/display devices are the high end Wacom Cintiq Pro screens, Dell's Canvas, and the lower end models from XP Pen, Huion, and others. (Quality issues can arise in the construction of the screens with parallax issues leading to inaccurate pen placement.)


Case 3, as per Case 1, but instead of looking at the device whilst entering notes, looking instead at a large LCD monitor connected as a mirror to the device, so as to make the display effectively bigger and to avoid having to bend over a smaller device.
Case 3a, where the device is flat on a desk and the monitor is positioned the same way as normal desktop monitor
case 3b, as per case 3a, but where the device is on a desk but at an angle of up to 90 deg
Case 3c, where you are sat on a couch and have the device on your lap and where the large screen is positioned like (or is) an LCD TV


Case 4, where the large monitor is positioned as per case 3, but where the screen is removed from the input decice, and instead a simpler and generally more inexpensive tablet is used, one that has no display, and you are drawing on the tablet whilst looking at the large lcd monitor in its normal position. This is the way that many graphic artists work, so obviously that user base has gone through the learning curve of drawing on one thing and looking at another.

There are many devices including those from Wacom, XP Pen, and Huion.
This case set 4 is not often considered - but it offers the possibility of using the tablet in relative mode. (Wacom call this mouse mode.) A caveat is that not all tablets come with the facility to change from Absolute (pen_ mode to relative (mouse) mode - YMMV. (I believe Huion at one time did not support relative mode, but this may have changed since the release of their v14 driver in 2018).
Case 4a is where the tablet is used in absolute mode (where the whole tablet area is mapped or scaled to the screen), and
Case 4b is where the tablet is used in relative mode.

At the end of this post is a link to a video that gives a pretty good explanation of the difference between absolute and relative modes, in case that is of use.

The potential advantage of this last relative mode approach is that for minimal hand movement and a little bit of a learning curve, a very comfortable working method might be possible.

Hopefully by drawing these distinctions, we can encourage others to come forward with their experiences of using the devices and the different configuration cases. This may also be a trigger for some of us to try different configurations and let us know how they work out ergonomically. Hope this is of some use !
E


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## Elephant

jonathanparham said:


> ok just tried again. .......... I don't have the patience for it. At least not on a surface that is not mirroring the screen. I'm drawing half notes too big and not quite connecting noteheads.



Just an afterthought Jonathan - was the Huion set to absolute mode or was it set to relative mode when you retried your test ? If it was absolute, you might try the tablet in relative mode and experiment a bit ... I have a suspicion that this could make a difference ....


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## jonathanparham

Elephant said:


> Just an afterthought Jonathan - was the Huion set to absolute mode or was it set to relative mode when you retried your test ? If it was absolute, you might try the tablet in relative mode and experiment a bit ... I have a suspicion that this could make a difference ....


hmmm dunno. Your persistence 'may' make me pull it out again. lol I have till next week to get a refund on it.


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## zilonline

Jacob Moss said:


> I use it with a Windows PC, and a Dell Canvas 27 touch monitor/pen input. Literally any multi-touch input with active pen will do on Windows 10. If you're in doubt, just think "windows ink" compatible.


Is there a smaller version of Dell Canvas available? I think ideally I would want something A4 size (14-15 inch).. a tablet that you could hold on your lap, sit on the couch and write. But also it should act as a possible secondary screen connected to a laptop (when I want to work at a desk) - similar to how Dell Canvas works (from what I've seen).


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## zilonline

Okay, after doing some research, I've found two interesting pieces of machinery:





Wacom Global


Wacom Global




www.wacom.com






https://store.huion.com/products/kamvas-studio-22



The Wacom MS Pro also comes in a 13 inch version.. they seem to be more or less what I want, albeit expensive. These are clearly aimed at professional artists, but I really appreciate the non-glossy (matte?) screen and from what it seems, paper-like feedback with the pen. Has anyone found a similar, but cheaper alternative? Or is there some sort of regular tablet/convertible 2-in-1 available with a matte screen and a good stylus pen?


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## fakemaxwell

Has anybody gotten the middle mouse button to scroll the canvas to work, in any form? I'm using a somewhat atypical setup (external Huion tablet) that I've mostly got working, but I can't crack this. No matter what I do middle mouse button just draws, no matter if it comes from a mouse, the pen, an autohotkey, whatever. It doesn't seem like it should necessarily be because of this setup but you never know.

There's some funky behavior that happens when the Huion tablet drivers are set to enable Windows Ink. Turning it off seems to work better, in case anybody has similar hurdles.


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## OMWaves

fakemaxwell said:


> Has anybody gotten the middle mouse button to scroll the canvas to work, in any form? I'm using a somewhat atypical setup (external Huion tablet) that I've mostly got working, but I can't crack this. No matter what I do middle mouse button just draws, no matter if it comes from a mouse, the pen, an autohotkey, whatever. It doesn't seem like it should necessarily be because of this setup but you never know.
> 
> There's some funky behavior that happens when the Huion tablet drivers are set to enable Windows Ink. Turning it off seems to work better, in case anybody has similar hurdles.


I've a similar setup: running SP on Windows 10 desktop PC with a Huion HS611 Pen Tablet. The middle scroll wheel works fine for me. In fact, I found it very useful when I use the scroll wheel and Ctrl key to zoom in and out. Working/using all three input devices -- pen/tablet, keyboard, and mouse -- I can get most everything done as you would on a Surface Pro or iPad, though not as efficiently.


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## Jacob Moss

Beyond Pen input, yes Windows Wheel still works. Works on my dell canvas with the totem.


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## Denkii

There's a new contender but I am unsure about comparability.





Artist Pro 16TP 4K UHD Multi Touch Screen Drawing Tablet | XPPen


This 15.6inch 3840 x 2160 Resolution pen display monitor combines XP-PEN's finest digital stylus capabilities with intuitive multi-touch support. Use XPPEN Artist Pro 16TP Professional laminated screen with finger gestures to make it even more comfortable and natural to work on.



www.xp-pen.com





It comes with a passive pen but I asked xp pen and they said it's windows ink compatible so it should work?
Would this enable you to work with Staffpad just as you would on a surface pro?


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## wcreed51

Looks like it would be perfect, though the screen isn't as big as something like the Dell Canvas


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## Braveheart

I have a Surface 3 (not pro) with 4 gb of ram and a Microsoft pen. Would I be able to use Staffpad smoothly with that configuration? Staffpad is on sale for a couple of days, but I'm afraid it won't be fluid enough and may be lagging.


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## yiph2

Braveheart said:


> I have a Surface 3 (not pro) with 4 gb of ram and a Microsoft pen. Would I be able to use Staffpad smoothly with that configuration? Staffpad is on sale for a couple of days, but I'm afraid it won't be fluid enough and may be lagging.


With the default Staffpad library, probably yes, with the third party ones, it may struggle


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## jonathanparham

Braveheart said:


> I have a Surface 3 (not pro) with 4 gb of ram and a Microsoft pen. Would I be able to use Staffpad smoothly with that configuration? Staffpad is on sale for a couple of days, but I'm afraid it won't be fluid enough and may be lagging.


expansions didn't work for me. Tons of audio dropouts even with 8 gigs of ram. But my surface five and surface 6 are smooth. The occasional hiccup with playback but rare


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