# Can I Use Star Wars Themes in a Fan Film? (UPDATE - Finished Product)



## BenBotkin (Dec 2, 2017)

Hi all!

I am probably about to score a short Star Wars fan film and am wondering what the lowdown is on using Star Wars melodies in it. Obviously the film or music will not be sold or monetized in any way, but if this is the sort of thing that would be flagged and removed by Disney regardless, then I won't bother using existing themes but will write my own.

I know there must be many on this forum who have had to sort through this exact same question. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Ben


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 2, 2017)

Do you mean that you are gonna write themes with samples featuring Star wars motifs or bits of it? So in that case I would say, you should not step into a problem when it is just fan movie which you don´t moneterize. Sure at least I would credit the origins properly but apart from that I don´t see a huge problem. You can also credit that clearly and I mean..sure I can understand the concerns but there are so many fan fictional movies out there who uses bits and parts of the star wars music and I never heard that somebody was really getting hurt or into problems until yet..point is: It all depends on the copyrights holders attitude and while Lucas was afaik cool with fanfictions and the reuse of starwars music there, I am not sure how Disney is with that. Probably sent them a mail and ask them. I would try that..just to be sure.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Dec 2, 2017)

It'd probably be helpful to get in touch with Blakus (Blake Robinson), who's done music for Star Wars fan films (like this) as well as some more official stuff.


----------



## JohnG (Dec 2, 2017)

Disney, I have been told, has more lawyers as a percentage of employees than any other company in the US, besides a law firm. Maybe true, maybe not, but they are thorough and persistent about challenging copyright infringement. Their motive is not solely "spoil-sport" either. Under some theories of intellectual property (I hear) a failure to police your material can be used by would-be infringers in some kind of abandonment-to-public argument.

Not a lawyer but personally I would probably try to come up with something that sounds sort-a like Star Wars.

There's also the issue of plagiarising JW, which I wouldn't do either, but since it's just for fun, maybe he wouldn't mind?


----------



## Desire Inspires (Dec 2, 2017)

Write your own themes.

And forget about Star Wars. Write some original music for the next George Lucas or Steven Spielberg instead of copying other people’s stuff.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Dec 2, 2017)

Desire Inspires said:


> Write your own themes.
> 
> And forget about Star Wars. Write some original music for the next George Lucas or Steven Spielberg instead of copying other people’s stuff.



He's asking about the logistics of using Williams' themes, not your opinion on his creative decisions.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 2, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> He's asking about the logistics of using Williams' themes, not your opinion on his creative decisions.


Thank you. Exactly that.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 2, 2017)

Desire Inspires said:


> Write your own themes.
> 
> And forget about Star Wars. Write some original music for the next George Lucas or Steven Spielberg instead of copying other people’s stuff.



I am pretty sure that Benjamin knows his creative decisions pretty well in that regards. Point here is not a creative decision but mainly a legal thing. Sure from a creative standpoint you could definitely say that but that is not what the op is asking for.


----------



## Desire Inspires (Dec 2, 2017)

So can he steal from another composer? 

No, he needs permission to copy someone else’s work. If you use someone else’s work, you get permission first, and then credit the original author or composer.

Pretty cut and dry.


----------



## erica-grace (Dec 2, 2017)

_Can I Use Star Wars Themes in a Fan Film?_

You absolutely may not. 

google: _star trek fan films lawsuit_


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 2, 2017)




----------



## Blakus (Dec 2, 2017)

So far the theme seems to be: 'as long as the film production isn't too good, and it's obviously harmless, good fun', then they are happy to turn a blind eye. You will be punished for being too good, however - 

It's all a little uncertain, with Star Wars fan films (including Williams' themes) having been made for years with no problems. Then Disney occasionally brings the hammer down on certain creations. My advice: if you're planning on making something great, and you don't want to be taken down, don't use Williams' themes.


----------



## Desire Inspires (Dec 2, 2017)

Blakus said:


> My advice: if you're planning on making something great, and you don't want to be taken down, don't use Williams' themes.



Makes total sense.

And if he does insist on using Williams’ theme, he needs to obtain a license to do so.


----------



## BenBotkin (Dec 2, 2017)

Thanks for the responses, everyone! At this point I am planning to go avoid the Williams themes and come up with something similar in style yet original. 

As Zhao and Alexander mentioned, my question was mostly a legal one. The whole proposition of a fan films provokes some interesting conversations on creative ethics, that is for sure. I mean, if you're consciously using terms, characters, locations, and objects from a film's universe, why should using melodies from that universe become the point of going too far? Personally I do not view the concept of a fan film as inherently plagiaristic, but Disney's views on the subject are what matter here--not mine. 



Blakus said:


> So far the theme seems to be: 'as long as the film production isn't too good, and it's obviously harmless, good fun', then they are happy to turn a blind eye. You will be punished for being too good, however -
> 
> It's all a little uncertain, with Star Wars fan films (including Williams' themes) having been made for years with no problems. Then Disney occasionally brings the hammer down on certain creations. My advice: if you're planning on making something great, and you don't want to be taken down, don't use Williams' themes.



Thanks for the reply, Blake! That makes sense. However, I have to ask, if "you will be punished for being too good," then why did your drone wars score survive? Or is there more to the story there? I mean, now you are writing Star Wars music FOR Disney...


----------



## MatFluor (Dec 2, 2017)

Best is to avoid any potential copyright infringement.

There is in US law something called "fair use", BUT a) this doesn't exist in every country (e.g. in switzerland there is no "fair use" thing) and b) this is extremely grey - something can count as fair use, or not - that's up to the judge. And I'm no lawyer. Ask your lawyer about that 

So again: Avoid any potential copyright infringement.


----------



## Blakus (Dec 3, 2017)

BenBotkin said:


> Thanks for the reply, Blake! That makes sense. However, I have to ask, if "you will be punished for being too good," then why did your drone wars score survive? Or is there more to the story there? I mean, now you are writing Star Wars music FOR Disney...


Haha, fair point. In that particular video, I think the gopro drone footage lowered the overall production quality enough to make it an obvious bit of fun. Who knows though, they might come and squash it in the future. But you're right, it certainly didn't hurt me in this case!


----------



## shelby9624 (Dec 8, 2017)

Desire Inspires said:


> And if he does insist on using Williams’ theme, he needs to obtain a license to do so.


lol


----------



## BenBotkin (Dec 12, 2017)

Hey all, 

In light of this discussion, I thought you all might be interested in seeing the final film and hearing it's score! My FX-guru brother created a timelapse of the Death Star being constructed. It's pretty cool. After weighing the pros and cons of writing original melodies VS risking using Williams', I decided to go the original route while trying to maintain the overall Williams Star Wars vibe and style. 



I used the following libraries: Berlin Brass (Orchestral Tools) Berlin Woodwinds (Orchestral Tools) Berlin Woodwinds Expansion B - Soloists (Orchestral Tools) Berlin Strings (Orchestral Tools) Berlin Percussion (Orchestral Tools) Metropolis Ark 1 (Orchestral Tools) Metropolis Ark 2 (Orchestral Tools) Soaring Strings (Musical Sampling) Adventure Strings (Musical Sampling) CinePerc Core (CineSamples) Hollywoodwinds (CineSamples) Skaila Kanga - Harp Redux (Spitfire Audio) (a couple misc perc FX from various libraries)

Thanks again for all the helpful feedback!


----------



## ScarletJerry (Dec 12, 2017)

Now THAT's a talented family!

-Scarlet Jerry


----------



## jason.d (Dec 12, 2017)

BenBotkin said:


> Hey all,
> 
> In light of this discussion, I thought you all might be interested in seeing the final film and hearing it's score! My FX-guru brother created a timelapse of the Death Star being constructed. It's pretty cool. After weighing the pros and cons of writing original melodies VS risking using Williams', I decided to go the original route while trying to maintain the overall Williams Star Wars vibe and style.
> 
> ...




Whoaaa that was....brilliant!! Vfx was super fun and the music was on point!!


----------



## NoamL (Dec 13, 2017)

Loved it! The harmonies you used at 0:39 and 1:19 totally evoke Star Wars!

John Williams seems to use those very dissonant not-quite-dominant chords as a trademark sound for the Empire.

They are all over this scene:



0:18, 0:32, 1:04, momentarily at 1:17 and 1:19.

I wonder what those chords are? Is it a min#9 chord or something like that?


----------



## BenBotkin (Dec 13, 2017)

ScarletJerry said:


> Now THAT's a talented family!
> 
> -Scarlet Jerry



Thanks, Scarlet Jerry and Jason!


----------



## chrisphan (Dec 13, 2017)

NoamL said:


> Loved it! The harmonies you used at 0:39 and 1:19 totally evoke Star Wars!
> 
> John Williams seems to use those very dissonant not-quite-dominant chords as a trademark sound for the Empire.
> 
> ...



What do you mean by min#9, is that a typo? I think Ben uses F/A at 0:39 and E7 at 1:19. I haven't had time to listen to the John Williams example


----------

