# Spitfire Solo Strings.. help?



## EBicks (Dec 27, 2018)

So I picked up SSS the other day on wishlist (thnx Spitfire!) and I have a question for you guys that have it or have used it.. It seems that when holding out long notes, you can hear the rebowing that seems to happen kind of randomly. Meaning it doesn't snap to the grid or anything like that.. So if you're holding a notes for say 2 bars, the bow may change on beat 2 or 3 of second bar, etc. It's annoying.. 

I'm assuming there is a work around that I just don't know about. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!


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## jbuhler (Dec 27, 2018)

EBicks said:


> So I picked up SSS the other day on wishlist (thnx Spitfire!) and I have a question for you guys that have it or have used it.. It seems that when holding out long notes, you can hear the rebowing that seems to happen kind of randomly. Meaning it doesn't snap to the grid or anything like that.. So if you're holding a notes for say 2 bars, the bow may change on beat 2 or 3 of second bar, etc. It's annoying..
> 
> I'm assuming there is a work around that I just don't know about. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!


I don’t think there is a rebow trigger and if there is I’d like to know about it too. I haven’t done systematic tests though perhaps @ism has. Mostly I find its rebow algorithm works well if you’ve written a line that is idiomatic and at an appropriate dynamic level and tempo for the length of bow needed to get the rebow to fall right. In context you can often get away with a repetition. Sometimes that works almost flawlessly, other times it is ugly and then I usually have to play around with length, timing, dynamics and even vibrato to get it to sound acceptable. In rare cases I have to rework the line or do something in the accompaniment to mask the problem. If I had a passage with a lot of rebowing I needed precise control of or required a lot of bow change repetitions I’d probably just opt for a different solo string library that was optimized for that. I would also be interested in hearing from folks who have found clever workarounds.


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## Bear Market (Dec 28, 2018)

I also find it difficult to cope with the rebowings. They are quite pronounced and seem to come quite early in the samples. It makes it somewhat difficult (I find) to write slower passages. Not sure if there is a way to control them though.


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## ism (Dec 28, 2018)

When you're using progressive legato on the virtuosic Vl, you need to be carefully about crossing dynamic layers during the vibrato swell. 

In general rebowing does seem to be related the crossing of dynamic layers and vib/non vib shifts - so basically everything @jbuhler said.

So I don't think there's a silver bullet fix for this. But it might be possible to develop techniques for mitigating the issue via a bit of care with dynamic layer crossing and vibrato shifts. 

On my list of things to work on.

Although since the rebowing samples are certainly there, maybe we might also hope for an update from Spitfire? Its possible that there a technical reason that rebowing isn't implemented, but it has always struck me as odd to put such enormous effort into so many transitions ... and then forgetting to add legato from the note to itself. So who knows.


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## batonruse (Dec 28, 2018)

Same boat!


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## ism (Dec 28, 2018)

I have a theory - involving a script - for coping with this for the virtuosic violin. 

I'll post a video one I see if it pans out.

But in the mean time the same rules of thumb that applies to the library as a whole relates to the rebowing - pay attention to the vibrato. 

It's the sin quo non of this library. 

SsS without attention to vibrato is a terrible, or at least very limited library. 

With attention to the vibrato - it is transcendently better.


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## Giscard Rasquin (Dec 28, 2018)

Same problem. Haven’t found a solution yet


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## fiction (Dec 28, 2018)

This worries me... I haven't bought it just yet


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## dzilizzi (Dec 28, 2018)

I just bought this and it is very slowly downloading. Their servers must be stretched as it usually goes faster on my side. 

Anyway I would be interested in any solutions, if this is a problem in this library, as well.


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## StillLife (Dec 28, 2018)

Just purchased. I am an optimist: I'm sure it will work out.


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## jbuhler (Dec 28, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> I just bought this and it is very slowly downloading. Their servers must be stretched as it usually goes faster on my side.
> 
> Anyway I would be interested in any solutions, if this is a problem in this library, as well.


I've encountered few situations that were serious problems and more often I find the instruments make inspired choices for where to rebow. The vibrato has caused me more trouble than the rebowing; the vibrato takes real practice to get right, at least in exposed contexts.


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## fiction (Dec 28, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I've encountered few situations that were serious problems and more often I find the instruments make inspired choices for where to rebow. The vibrato has caused me more trouble than the rebowing; the vibrato takes real practice to get right, at least in exposed contexts.


Isn't the vibrato on this the one that completely changes the timbre once engaged? I can hear it in the SA legato walkthrough. Seems like once you increase the vibrato, the violin looses focus and you hear more room like if it was a different microphone.


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## jbuhler (Dec 28, 2018)

fiction said:


> sn't the vibrato on this the one that completely changes the timbre once engaged?


I wouldn't put it that way, though the transition is very abrupt in the regular legato instruments. (The vib sample is different from the non-vib sample, as I think is true of all Spitfire strings, whether solo or section.) In the case of the Solo Strings it is done in such a way that you can pass back and forth across the transition with it sounding good so long as you attend to phrasing, dynamics, and vibrato that make musical sense, so you can sculpt an excellent performance from it. You also can't generally just let vibrato be on these instruments except for spot solos that have cover in the accompanying instruments. It's also entirely possible to make things go entirely wrong, and it takes some practice to get right.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 28, 2018)

Hi Guys
I tried the performance violin patch first and I really cant perform there much, I am not sure what I am doing wrong, but the patch triggers even at very low velocities a staccato overlay which is for me very difficult to perform. I tried certain legato phrases also with the cello which ended up in many many bumps, I couldnt even write a simple arpeggiating figure with it... Did you experience also problems with the playability and legato transitions? Am I doing something wrong here? Its actually that strange that I am using a long articulation patch to perform the lines which works better..I am not sure but this isn´t intended..so I assume I miss something here?


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## AllanH (Dec 28, 2018)

I haven't found a solution, other than attempting to write for a real violinist  [not that I know what that means, but anyway]. The solo strings do not provide an infinite bow, and that is likely a good thing for realism. One of my other solo strings libraries use the sustain pedal to force a rebow, which is helpful, and lets me time things better. 

That being said, the "Total Performance" legato patch is really well done and very useable. Fiddeling with the vibrato settings can reduce the impact of rebowing imo.


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## AllanH (Dec 28, 2018)

fiction said:


> Isn't the vibrato on this the one that completely changes the timbre once engaged? I can hear it in the SA legato walkthrough. Seems like once you increase the vibrato, the violin looses focus and you hear more room like if it was a different microphone.



I agree with this assessment. It sounds to me as if something about the MV is different than V and NV.


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## fiction (Dec 28, 2018)

Would be nice if this issues could be addressed in a future update.


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## jbuhler (Dec 28, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hi Guys
> I tried the performance violin patch first and I really cant perform there much, I am not sure what I am doing wrong, but the patch triggers even at very low velocities a staccato overlay which is for me very difficult to perform. I tried certain legato phrases with the cello which ended up in many many bumps, I couldnt even write a simple arrpegiating figure with it... Did you experience also problems with the playability and legato transitions? Am I doing something wrong here?


As outlined in the manual (do read the manual for this library!), the virtuouso instrument does have a spiccato overlay (staccato only happens at low vibrato levels and are coupled with tremolo rather than progressive vibrato for the long). So notes without legato will have the spiccato at velocity in addition to the long, unless you play at velocities below 9, in which case you should just get the initial long articulation without the overlay. I don't think this is documented, but I find that if you edit the midi to very short duration the instrument seems to trigger the ricochet articulations in the virtuoso violin (you might be able to do it with the keyboard, but I haven't been able to get it reliably). These appear both in arpeggiation figures and in repetitions. Of course you have to write a line that uses them properly. You can also affect the articulation with the vibrato control and the legato transition with the speed of playing. This too is outlined in the manual.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 28, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> As outlined in the manual (do read the manual for this library!), the virtuouso instrument does have a spiccato overlay (staccato only happens at low vibrato levels and are coupled with tremolo rather than progressive vibrato for the long). So notes without legato will have the spiccato at velocity in addition to the long, unless you play at velocities below 9, in which case you should just get the initial long articulation without the overlay. I don't think this is documented, but I find that if you edit the midi to very short duration the instrument seems to trigger the ricochet articulations in the virtuoso violin (you might be able to do it with the keyboard, but I haven't been able to get it reliably). These appear both in arpeggiation figures and in repetitions. Of course you have to write a line that uses them properly. You can also affect the articulation with the vibrato control and the legato transition with the speed of playing. This too is outlined in the manual.



Yes, thank you. I did read the manual though..and I know that the overlays are triggered by velocity, but why they chose a velocity of 9? How you can perform that? you have to have like cloudy super sensitive cat claws to trigger that low velocity, I can´t.. anyways: Did you try with the cello lets say an A minor triad playing up and down over an octave with connected notes? Just curious, I really couldn´t get let that sound anything descent. I mean..can somebody post maybe something where he achieves anything like that? Its sounds maybe funny I know and its not that I normally have problems finding out how a library works. (I mean thats not my first spitfire library...)


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## jbuhler (Dec 28, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I know that the overlays are triggered by velocity, but why they chose a velocity of 9? How you can perform that?


I don't perform that. I perform the passage and then edit the midi on the notes I don't want the overlay. I assume it was done this way so that you had access to almost the full dynamic range of the spiccatos while playing. That allows you to move back and forth easily between spiccato and legato in phrasing but at the cost of notes that need to be fixed at the beginnings of legato passages. I almost always have to edit the vibrato and/or dynamics in any case, so adjusting the beginnings of legato phrases isn't a lot of extra work and I like the performative gains from the tradeoff. 

I'll try the cello thing when I'm at my rig later today. Which octave and how fast?

@ism has noted that this library has poor plonkability. With a bit of practice, it has pretty good playability and I've found I can usually craft good performances out of it, so long as the passage is idiomatic and sits reasonably proximate to one of the library's sweet spots.


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## ism (Dec 28, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Yes, thank you. I did read the manual though..and I know that the overlays are triggered by velocity, but why they chose a velocity of 9? How you can perform that? you have to have like cloudy super sensitive cat claws to trigger that low velocity, I can´t.. anyways: Did you try with the cello lets say an A minor triad playing up and down over an octave with connected notes? Just curious, I really couldn´t get let that sound anything descent. I mean..can somebody post maybe something where he achieves anything like that? Its sounds maybe funny I know and its not that I normally have problems finding out how a library works. (I mean thats not my first spitfire library...)



I agree that that a velocity of 9 is ridiculously low. Same issue with BDT, I think they must all have super sensitive keyboards at Spitire HQ. But you can go into the instrument in Kontakt and edit the velocity curve up to 20, which helps quite a lot. (Any higher and it will start affecting the legato). I’ve asked spitfire it we might get a way to disable, or somehow scale this in a future update. Actually a standard non-performance patch would be nice to have also. There’s a good discussion of this on the main spitfire thread. But the 30s fix is to adjust the velocity curve.

Hard to I say what your issue with the cello is. Maybe it speed? I find that the legato on the cello is almost but not quite fast enough to do the famous Bach prelude.


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## harmaes (Dec 29, 2018)

ism said:


> But you can go into the instrument in Kontakt and edit the velocity curve up to 20, which helps quite a lot. (Any higher and it will start affecting the legato). I’ve asked spitfire it we might get a way to disable, or somehow scale this in a future update. Actually a standard non-performance patch would be nice to have also. There’s a good discussion of this on the main spitfire thread. But the 30s fix is to adjust the velocity curve.



I noticed that I can't modify the instrument anymore in Kontakt 6. In Kontakt 5.8.1 I get a crash when opening the editor. Which Kontakt version did you use?


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## ism (Dec 29, 2018)

fiction said:


> Isn't the vibrato on this the one that completely changes the timbre once engaged? I can hear it in the SA legato walkthrough. Seems like once you increase the vibrato, the violin looses focus and you hear more room like if it was a different microphone.



I wouldn’t;t put it that way either, but I do think that the switch to vibrato


harmaes said:


> I noticed that I can't modify the instrument anymore in Kontakt 6. In Kontakt 5.8.1 I get a crash when opening the editor. Which Kontakt version did you use?



I’m still on K5 - but you don’t need to go into the editor . Spitfire instruments have a tool to let you draw in a velocity curve built right into them.


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## mventura (Dec 29, 2018)

ism said:


> I find that the legato on the cello is almost but not quite fast enough to do the famous Bach prelude.



What? Really? Do you mind posting what it sounds like? I thought this was a solo library...Thanks.


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## ism (Dec 29, 2018)

mventura said:


> What? Really? Do you mind posting what it sounds like? I thought this was a solo library...Thanks.




Sure, but what specifically are you looking for ... I’ve posted a fair few cello examples already, so what do yo think is missing?


Most sampled cellos aren’t optimized for the baroque, so there’s nothing terribly remarkable about yo-yo mock ups not being a sweet spot. (Don’t buy this library to mock up Yo Yo Ma  ).


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## harmaes (Dec 29, 2018)

ism said:


> I’m still on K5 - but you don’t need to go into the editor . Spitfire instruments have a tool to let you draw in a velocity curve built right into them.



Ah indeed, thought you mentioned going into the editor. I've seen the velocity curve editor. So you've drawn a custom one there with a slight increase on the left side?


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## ism (Dec 29, 2018)

Better advice - Don’t try to mock up Yo Yo Ma. Let Yo Yo Ma be Yo Yo Ma 

The Blakus cello does a fairly convincing Mock up of Bach’s prelude - but the the expressiveness of this piece, and Baroque compositions in general is in a totally different galaxy in the universe of all possible cello lines. In practice the Blakus doesn’t really do much of anything I want a cello to do - it’s lack of dynamics drives me crazy - except noodling about with Bach.

If and when Spitifre integrates the fast legato samples into the cello legato, I’m sure it will be able to pull off The Bach prelude, but I predict that it still won’t be remotely Baroque.


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## mventura (Dec 29, 2018)

ism said:


> Sure, but what specifically are you looking for ... I’ve posted a fair few cello examples already, so what do yo think is missing?
> 
> 
> Most sampled cellos aren’t optimized for the baroque, so there’s nothing terribly remarkable about yo-yo mock ups not being a sweet spot. (Don’t buy this library to mock up Yo Yo Ma  ).



I'd love to hear the cello legato patch playing some fairly fast lines. If you already have that on your soundcloud please point me to that. Thanks! 

I hear you on the Yo Yo Ma . I just want to know what the limitations of the cello legato are before buying.


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## ism (Dec 29, 2018)

mventura said:


> I'd love to hear the cello legato patch playing some fairly fast lines. If you already have that on your soundcloud please point me to that. Thanks!
> 
> I hear you on the Yo Yo Ma . I just want to know what the limitations of the cello legato are before buying.



I can throw together a noodle this afternoon.(But - spoiler - it’s almost, but not not quite fast enough to pull off Bach prelude, so going up to that speed just kind of breaks the instrument )


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## mventura (Dec 29, 2018)

ism said:


> I can throw together a noodle this afternoon.(But - spoiler - it’s almost, but not not quite fast enough to pull off Bach prelude, so going up to that speed just kind of breaks the instrument )


Thanks so much ism!


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## ism (Dec 29, 2018)

mventura said:


> I'd love to hear the cello legato patch playing some fairly fast lines. If you already have that on your soundcloud please point me to that. Thanks!
> 
> I hear you on the Yo Yo Ma . I just want to know what the limitations of the cello legato are before buying.




Ok so ... caveats abound:

Very, very raw. Just a silly little single take noodle. No great attention to crafting the arcs, except for standard mod wheel (/w performance vibrato script - note that I'm really riding the mod wheel in a more or less idiomatic fashion, otherwise it would sound like a dying cat, you have to craft your own arcs, it does not do this for you). No midi editing whatever. No reverb to cover anything up, just close plus ~40% tree mic (normally I'd add some tail to everything). So, my point is: raw.

And as a 'composition' ... definitely not Bach (except for that bit in the middle that I think I may have ripped off from .. St Matthew's Passion, maybe?). Seriously fun to play though .



What I am trying to do though is hit the sweet spot of the expressiveness of (reasonably) well crafted arcs, while pushing the tempo to the edge, and then slightly over what the current legatos can handle.


Some of the bumpiness you hear is just from nature of the transitions beteen the tree dynamic layers x 2 vibrato layers, and the way I'm really hitting all of these layers hard - nearly every note shifts between at least two , often 5 or six layers. There would be room to finesse the arc here if you want to smooth it a bit. Or just fix some of the more egregious errors in my playing.

However, some of the bumpiness is from pushing the legato to play just a bit too fast.


Not sure if this counts as "fairly fast". But pending an update with the faster legatos (and the samples being reportedly already there this isn't a completely futile hope) I wouldn't push the instrument any faster that what you hear in this.

What I will say, is that while you would never use this for a Mozart concerto or for something where smoothness of performance is essence of the musicality, for all that this bumpiness arises technically from 'unrealistic' flaws in the scripting, it never breaks frame. That is, it never breaks the illusion that - to my ear - I completely believe this is a cellist playing a cello, and with a great deal of passion and (at times) subtlety - even if they make a few minor technical mistakes in the bowing here and there. Minor technical mistakes on the part of the (imagined) cellist, my ear can forgive. Synthy-ness, and it just falls of a cliff never to return.


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## mventura (Dec 29, 2018)

ism said:


> Ok so ... caveats abound:
> 
> Very, very raw. Just a silly little single take noodle. No great attention to crafting the arcs, except for standard mod wheel (/w performance vibrato script - note that I'm really riding the mod wheel in a more or less idiomatic fashion, otherwise it would sound like a dying cat, you have to craft your own arcs, it does not do this for you). No midi editing whatever. No reverb to cover anything up, just close plus ~40% tree mic (normally I'd add some tail to everything). So, my point is: raw.
> 
> And as a 'composition' ... definitely not Bach (except for that bit in the middle that I think I may have ripped off from .. St Matthew's Passion, maybe?). Seriously fun to play though ..



Thanks ism! I really appreciate you taking the time to make this and show how it performs when hitting all the layers. I'm gonna go ahead and buy this. I like the tone. 

I'm really interested in seeing how this library compares to Chris Hein solo cello and Embertone JB violin. I'll post some tracks comparing the libraries (on a new thread). Note I write by hand so all my tracks will be heavily midi edited. Thanks again!


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## ism (Dec 29, 2018)

mventura said:


> Thanks ism! I really appreciate you taking the time to make this and show how it performs when hitting all the layers. I'm gonna go ahead and buy this. I like the tone.
> 
> I'm really interested in seeing how this library compares to Chris Hein solo cello and Embertone JB violin. I'll post some tracks comparing the libraries (on a new thread). Note I write by hand so all my tracks will be heavily midi edited. Thanks again!



Cool - I would suggest though that this is the kind of instrument you need to at least know how to play yourself though, and understand how can craft the arcs. It's not at all like the Joshua Bell - which avoids the issue by having baked in vibrato (unless you like the simulated vib, which I don't) and no dynamics at the note level at all.

I'll have this vibrato script out shortly (or I can privately send you a beta, assuming you're in Logic), which simplifies this process considerably.

And I'm very interested to know how the Chris Hein sweet spot compare. (I just can't get my head around with CH or the Emotion Vl/ Vc instruments from the demos at all).


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## ism (Dec 29, 2018)

harmaes said:


> Ah indeed, thought you mentioned going into the editor. I've seen the velocity curve editor. So you've drawn a custom one there with a slight increase on the left side?



Yep, you just bring everything below a velocity of twenty up to nineteen on the far left.


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## mventura (Dec 29, 2018)

ism said:


> I'll have this vibrato script out shortly (or I can privately send you a beta, assuming you're in Logic), which simplifies this process considerably.



Thanks but I use Notion with Studio One. I'll first try just drawing vibrato curves.


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## StillLife (Dec 29, 2018)

Don't know whether this is the best thread to post this, but here's my first take on SSoS, in a 'pop/singer-songwriter'-context. All right out of the box, mostly the progressive vib articulations, some spiccato and staccato and some harmonics in the intro; only riding the modwheel while playing, no editing afterwards. Some fx on the vocals and a bit of mastering via EZmix. 
It is part of a song I'm working on. Very much work in progress. Bear in mind that each part is recorded in one or two takes, and not quantized. Also: I used a non-typical 'DAW': NI's Maschine. Also: I have _very_ little experience with writing for strings, and with playing strings on the keyboard. I tend to just do what I think sounds nice. 
I still wanted to post this, to let you hear what this lib can do right out of the box, when you just want to make music. I am very happy with it!
Piano is also a Wishlist buy: the Felt from OA Toolkit. Between the piano and my voices: just SSoS.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/our-man-other-men-v1-mp3.17522/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## jaketanner (Dec 29, 2018)

Bear Market said:


> I also find it difficult to cope with the rebowings. They are quite pronounced and seem to come quite early in the samples. It makes it somewhat difficult (I find) to write slower passages. Not sure if there is a way to control them though.



I have been noticing this exact same thing. Not sure if this is a script issue, or if this is how an actual live player would reboot based off the dynamics, however if there are many people that notice the rebowing too soon, then maybe it's something else. At lower dynamics, it happens less frequent for sure, but at full dynamics, for me, it happens like every 1-2 seconds..especially with the viola as well.


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## StillLife (Dec 29, 2018)

Here's a version with just the strings (no mastering, no editing, just playing).

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/our-man-other-men-v1-just-strings-mp3.17523/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## jbuhler (Dec 29, 2018)

Since folks seem interested in the capabilities of this library...

I did a short sketch to try out some of the elements of the virtuosic violin shortly after the Total Performance patch was released and I revisited it earlier tonight to add some more demonstration elements (a few quick runs, lyrical playing in another register). This is basically the exposition of a short concerto movement, and it is accompanied with the ensemble patch from SCS and a woodwind patch from Masse. No reverb or any other processing. All three mics on the violin (as pictured).






The dynamics and vibrato could use a little more attention to attenuate a bit more the whiny quality in some of the half step legatos and maybe a little EQ. But I think those ricochets sound pretty good.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/totalperformancetest-mp3.17525/][/AUDIOPLUS]

Edited to add: And here is the violin alone.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/totalperformancetestviolinalone-mp3.17526/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 30, 2018)

This is going to be a helpful thread for me, thanks all.

I seem to have a messed up GUI in K5 standalone when pressing the Spitfire Spanner. Anyone know what this is about?







(Lovely sounding strings in that song, Still Life.)


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2018)

Guy Rowland said:


> This is going to be a helpful thread for me, thanks all.
> 
> I seem to have a messed up GUI in K5 standalone when pressing the Spitfire Spanner. Anyone know what this is about?
> 
> ...


Try reloading the patch. That usually solves the problem. I’ve had this (and similar issues) intermittently with SF libraries, not just the Solo Strings. I can’t reliably reproduce it though so I haven’t reported it.


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## ism (Dec 30, 2018)

StillLife said:


> Don't know whether this is the best thread to post this, but here's my first take on SSoS, in a 'pop/singer-songwriter'-context. All right out of the box, mostly the progressive vib articulations, some spiccato and staccato and some harmonics in the intro; only riding the modwheel while playing, no editing afterwards. Some fx on the vocals and a bit of mastering via EZmix.
> It is part of a song I'm working on. Very much work in progress. Bear in mind that each part is recorded in one or two takes, and not quantized. Also: I used a non-typical 'DAW': NI's Maschine. Also: I have _very_ little experience with writing for strings, and with playing strings on the keyboard. I tend to just do what I think sounds nice.
> I still wanted to post this, to let you hear what this lib can do right out of the box, when you just want to make music. I am very happy with it!
> Piano is also a Wishlist buy: the Felt from OA Toolkit. Between the piano and my voices: just SSoS.
> ...



Thanks for sharing that. Really interesting new perspective for me on the how these sounds work in a new context.


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## ism (Dec 30, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Since folks seem interested in the capabilities of this library...
> 
> I did a short sketch to try out some of the elements of the virtuosic violin shortly after the Total Performance patch was released and I revisited it earlier tonight to add some more demonstration elements (a few quick runs, lyrical playing in another register). This is basically the exposition of a short concerto movement, and it is accompanied with the ensemble patch from SCS and a woodwind patch from Masse. No reverb or any other processing. All three mics on the violin (as pictured).
> 
> ...




That’s brilliant. And it really hits that sweet spot of ‘somewhere between Joshua Bell and Arvo part’ that I’m been trying to get my head around. Pushing perhaps even farther into the ‘Joshua Bell’ part of the universe of all possible violin phrasing than I had realized it could go. But there’s also a nuance to the arcs that your using to great effect also that you just wouldn't be able to do with the actual Embertone JB. 

Of course you wouldn’t have to worry about that ‘whiny quality’ in the Embertone instrument as it’s optimized for ‘all sweetness, all the time’. Whereas here you need to carve the sweetness out in the arcs with Spitfire, which yields a very different quality of sweetness. Maybe - and i’m just think out loud here - an entirely different paradigm of sweetness? Perhaps in part stemming from how it arises not just from the samples themsleves, but in a kind of counterpoint with the harshness the instrument is also capable of? But at times - even in the my silly cello noodle above - there’s something about these moments of ‘sweetness’ that that I just feel as... well as whatever that transcendent quality of solo strings is ... place that the all-sweetness-all-the-time approach of JB and CSSS (though I love these approaches also) just can’t take you to. Probably not the kind of sweetness you want when your’re scoring a Steven Spielberg film about dinosaurs. But a sweetness all the same.

On a more technical note, I wonder if the ‘whiney’ quality your talking about here might be related, somehow, to tuning or intonation or some variant thereof? Is that a plausible theory? if so, might it be addressed with tiny amounts of pitch shifting?

A very helpful example - thanks!


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## styledelk (Dec 30, 2018)

Dusting off SSS from Black Friday, this probably sits a lot more in the "whiny" category that @ism is talking about. 
This started off as trying to play in BDT, then HZS, then "hey, let's try out that violin." 
I haven't gotten too far into the other SSS instruments yet, since I really just wanted the violin. But soon.

Warning: this isn't crafted at all. Noodling. I need a good general purpose reverb for mixing these together.

Impressions: the violin has fantastic playability, but takes considerable practice (as it should) to get the modwheel and note hits just right.


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2018)

styledelk said:


> Dusting off SSS from Black Friday, this probably sits a lot more in the "whiny" category that @ism is talking about.
> This started off as trying to play in BDT, then HZS, then "hey, let's try out that violin."
> I haven't gotten too far into the other SSS instruments yet, since I really just wanted the violin. But soon.
> 
> ...



Very nice, and I love that high register on the Virtuoso Violin. Often it is worth trying out the First Chair legato patch as well for passages like that because they really are like different players and bring different inflections to lyrical playing. One thing I've noticed with the Virtuoso Violin is that it requires much less attention to the modwheel and CC21 than does the First Chair—and you can compose into the DAW much more easily with the Virtuoso Violin than the First Chair, which seems to produce much better results when I play as opposed to drawing the notes into the DAW—but often in passages where the violin is conceived as an ensemble soloist rather than as the star soloist, the First Chair works better.


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## styledelk (Dec 30, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Very nice, and I love that high register on the Virtuoso Violin. Often it is worth trying out the First Chair legato patch as well for passages like that because they really are like different players and bring different inflections to lyrical playing. One thing I've noticed with the Virtuoso Violin is that it requires much less attention to the modwheel and CC21 than does the First Chair—and you can compose into the DAW much more easily with the Virtuoso Violin than the First Chair, which seems to produce much better results when I play as opposed to drawing the notes into the DAW—but often in passages where the violin is conceived as an ensemble soloist rather than as the star soloist, the First Chair works better.



Excellent advice.  I'm determined to try and do some actual written quartet work with this library soon so I can get off the drug of the total performance patch.


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## styledelk (Dec 30, 2018)

Correction: first I want to try and mock up some bars of the first movement of Prokofiev's violin concerto.


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2018)

styledelk said:


> Excellent advice.  I'm determined to try and do some actual written quartet work with this library soon so I can get off the drug of the total performance patch.


I find this whole library to be a drug, tbh. Just so much to work with, and I have found that I can get so much out of it, but unlike some libraries you do have to put a fair amount of effort in to start getting results. As @ism notes, the library also allows you to sound bad with it.

I haven't tried quartet writing with it. When I first got the library, I thought quartet writing was probably beyond it because in quartets the instruments are relentlessly exposed, but the more I've worked with it, the less I'm sure about that. @ism has done some fascinating work showing how the library allows you to mold arcs where the players seem to be listening and watching each other. I'm now curious to try it, and if not to mock up one of the quartets for the standard repertory, to write a piece written to the sweets spots of these instruments.


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## ism (Dec 30, 2018)

styledelk said:


> Dusting off SSS from Black Friday, this probably sits a lot more in the "whiny" category that @ism is talking about.
> This started off as trying to play in BDT, then HZS, then "hey, let's try out that violin."
> I haven't gotten too far into the other SSS instruments yet, since I really just wanted the violin. But soon.
> 
> ...





There's quite a lovely piece to be found in this.

Can I ask, what are you doing with cc21 in this?


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## styledelk (Dec 30, 2018)

ism said:


> There's quite a lovely piece to be found in this.
> 
> Can I ask, what are you doing with cc21 in this?



Thanks! Barely anything done with cc21. Intended to go back and make its own pass but plum forgot. It's sitting at about 53 throughout.


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## ism (Dec 30, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> As @ism notes, the library also allows you to sound bad with it.




The point being very much that this is a feature, not a bug. 

And I think that while I originally meant this in a very broad sense - that you have to craft the arcs etc - I think that this is also true in microcosm of drawing out the specific gesture of 'sweetness', though I'm starting to believe the word is overloaded and we might benefit from a more precise notion of what precisely are the gestures that we'r describing as sweetness.

This dual is not "whininess" - I don't think the above is whiney. I think that the 'whiny quality' is quality something that arises in the context of certain phrasings, but I don't think it's an necessarily an intrinsic quality of the underlying samples.

Its like how a C can be consonant or dissonant depending on the context provided by the key of the phrase it appears it. One phrase's 'whiny quality' is another's 'lush intensity'


Specifically, I've found that - particularly with the first chair Vl - what is a harshness or 'whininess' in the no vib samples, sometimes resolves into a very lovely and sweet texturally when you shift to vibrato at just the right moment. And being able to chose the precise moment at which to shift from non-vib can really let you control the nature of the quality of the notes in the context of the phrases

Most unexpected (though perhaps obvious to a string player) in how this ability to craft the phrase impacts the counter point. For instance, when you playing a note that functions as a suspension in the context of the voice leading around it, resolving to vibrato sooner or latter can materially impact how the note functions as a suspension, softening or intensifying the functioning of the suspension.

There's also perceptual dimension of how this can be used to aid the voice-leading in ensuring your different lines remain distinct perceptual stream. Or dually, you might take particular care to coordinate the arcs of different instrument as technique in 'anti-voice-leading' to encourage your counterpoint to 'annihilate' - that is, cohere into a single perceptual stream of seamless harmony instead of distinctly perceptible lines.

(Do string player already know all of this stuff, instinctively? Because I'm surely reinventing the wheel here, but I don't know of anywhere it's been written down).

Now that I think of it, I could as easily talk about "progressing to the vibrato" instead of "resolving to the vibrato". And this is my original point - that even whether this is a progression or resolution isn't about the underlying sample as thing-in-itself. But involves a contextual inflection of both how you craft the arc, and the surrounding context of the voice leading.

Also, not to harp on my script, but being able to control this 'resolve/progress-toward-vibrato' point with just the mod wheel really does make the instruments a lot more fun to play.

Not saying there haven't been lots of moments where it's made me want to slam my head in a door, but this is such a fun library.


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## ism (Dec 30, 2018)

Hey, you know this is a valuable and constructive discussion - can I suggest we take it to a new thread? 

We’re kind of the tail end of what started as a rather technical and reactive thread, and there are very possibly people who might be more interested in getting stuck into a more constructing musical discussion.

Any objections?


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2018)

ism said:


> Hey, you know this is a valuable and constructive discussion - can I suggest we take it to a new thread?
> 
> We’re kind of the tail end of what started as a rather technical and reactive thread, and there are very possibly people who might be more interested in getting stuck into a more constructing musical discussion.
> 
> Any objections?


Please do!


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 30, 2018)

ism said:


> [SNIP]
> 
> What I will say, is that while you would never use this for a Mozart concerto or for something where smoothness of performance is essence of the musicality, for all that this bumpiness arises technically from 'unrealistic' flaws in the scripting, it never breaks frame. That is, it never breaks the illusion that - to my ear - I completely believe this is a cellist playing a cello, and with a great deal of passion and (at times) subtlety - even if they make a few minor technical mistakes in the bowing here and there. Minor technical mistakes on the part of the (imagined) cellist, my ear can forgive. Synthy-ness, and it just falls of a cliff never to return.




I'm still catching up on the details in this thread, and only had very limited time to play with it ('tis the season to be jolly and all). This comment above (if you click the quoted part to reveal) leapt out to me however in that I have to respectfully disagree. Even in the first few seconds I hear multiple breaking the aural fourth wall, and it does feel like some of my early fumblings. Not synthy, but it sounds very choppy almost like a mic cable is frayed. It would need a lot of TLC with the midi to get it smooth I think.

Really it was the virtuoso performance patch video that sold me on this library and the promise of something that just plays. First contact with reality therefore felt rather disappointing, although I do feel that with time, practice and some tweaks it will be suited to some parts better than anything I currently have. But for out of the box instant gratification, Bohemian Violin / Cello is a much kinder, smoother and sweeter experience. I far prefer their violin tone and it seems much easier to get genuinely musical-sounding results. But on the other hand it offers more control over minutiae than Bohemian and does feel like a step forward from their earlier solo library, with the vibrato switching in particular better than feared. Too early for me to have a proper handle on how it and I are going to get on, but near-certain it will not retire Bohemian.


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## jbuhler (Dec 30, 2018)

Guy Rowland said:


> I'm still catching up on the details in this thread, and only had very limited time to play with it ('tis the season to be jolly and all). This comment above (if you click the quoted part to reveal) leapt out to me however in that I have to respectfully disagree. Even in the first few seconds I hear multiple breaking the aural fourth wall, and it does feel like some of my early fumblings. Not synthy, but it sounds very choppy almost like a mic cable is frayed. It would need a lot of TLC with the midi to get it smooth I think.
> 
> Really it was the virtuoso performance patch video that sold me on this library and the promise of something that just plays. First contact with reality therefore felt rather disappointing, although I do feel that with time, practice and some tweaks it will be suited to some parts better than anything I currently have. But for out of the box instant gratification, Bohemian Violin / Cello is a much kinder, smoother and sweeter experience. I far prefer their violin tone and it seems much easier to get genuinely musical-sounding results. But on the other hand it offers more control over minutiae than Bohemian and does feel like a step forward from their earlier solo library, with the vibrato switching in particular better than feared. Too early for me to have a proper handle on how it and I are going to get on, but near-certain it will not retire Bohemian.


I find I often fight with the Bohemian instrument, though the original violin is still my violin noodle instrument of choice. But I have to compose to it in ways that are less the case with the Spitfire instruments where I have more ability to shape the performance. The SF instruments have terrible plonkability (@ism’s term); only the total performance violin is even reasonable for that. But I find they move quickly to, for lack of a better term, scripted playability, especially in context. And I usually have little trouble using these instruments as spot soloists in orchestral settings without too much fuss.


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## Kony (Dec 30, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hi Guys
> I tried the performance violin patch first and I really cant perform there much, I am not sure what I am doing wrong, but the patch triggers even at very low velocities a staccato overlay which is for me very difficult to perform. I tried certain legato phrases also with the cello which ended up in many many bumps, I couldnt even write a simple arpeggiating figure with it... Did you experience also problems with the playability and legato transitions? Am I doing something wrong here? Its actually that strange that I am using a long articulation patch to perform the lines which works better..I am not sure but this isn´t intended..so I assume I miss something here?


I have a similar problem with bumpy legato transitions in SCS.

SCS has been out for some time and is mentioned by many as the best SA strings library so I'm wondering why no updates have been released to fix this....


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## StillLife (Dec 30, 2018)

ism said:


> Thanks for sharing that. Really interesting new perspective for me on the how these sounds work in a new context.


You're welcome! May I ask you, in your capacity as an expert on this stuff: does the string section seems realistic to you? Any advice?


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## ism (Dec 30, 2018)

Guy Rowland said:


> I'm still catching up on the details in this thread, and only had very limited time to play with it ('tis the season to be jolly and all). This comment above (if you click the quoted part to reveal) leapt out to me however in that I have to respectfully disagree. Even in the first few seconds I hear multiple breaking the aural fourth wall, and it does feel like some of my early fumblings. Not synthy, but it sounds very choppy almost like a mic cable is frayed. It would need a lot of TLC with the midi to get it smooth I think.
> 
> Really it was the virtuoso performance patch video that sold me on this library and the promise of something that just plays. First contact with reality therefore felt rather disappointing, although I do feel that with time, practice and some tweaks it will be suited to some parts better than anything I currently have. But for out of the box instant gratification, Bohemian Violin / Cello is a much kinder, smoother and sweeter experience. I far prefer their violin tone and it seems much easier to get genuinely musical-sounding results. But on the other hand it offers more control over minutiae than Bohemian and does feel like a step forward from their earlier solo library, with the vibrato switching in particular better than feared. Too early for me to have a proper handle on how it and I are going to get on, but near-certain it will not retire Bohemian.






Please don't retire your Bohemian! I have the Bohemian cello, and I really do love it also . But it's not just that they're good at different things, it's more like there in nothing that one can do well that the other can do even passably.

Because that languorous continuously evolving smoother-than-smooth style of arcs of the Bohemian - totally impossibly with Spitfire (at least until they integration the progressive vibrato samples into the cello).

But honestly, once the euphoria of the instant gratification of the Bohemian wore off it became a major source of angst for me. You can't craft the arcs, you can only select from a menu of 5 beautiful, languorous arcs and then when its done (as much as 13s later) then you get to choose another. It's feels like trying to play tennis in waist high mud. Sure it "just plays" but it doesn't generally doesn't play anything remotely related to the composition I'm working on ...

... which is not at all a criticism of the Bohemian, but rather that I bought it profoundly naive not so much of what the instrument was capable of, but of what writing for cello is all about in general, and without really understanding what kind of cello lines I actually wanted to write myself. Since buying the Spitfire strings, I've actually gone back to the Bohemian, and no longer needing to make it sound like the what the Spitfire cello can do, I'm really starting to love it again. I also picked up the Tina Guo on sale, even though I previous dismissed it a far too narrow in its expressive range. Because having the Bohemian and the Spitfire and the Balkus, I find that there are still times when what I really want is precisely that tiny little fragment of real estate in the universe of all possible cello lines that Guo covers, and covers wonderfully.


I like that phrase "fourth aural wall" - it's exactly the concept I was going for. But let me see if I can refine it a bit.

First, please remember that this above noodle was explicitly to demonstrate the limitations of the instrument, and there's no reverb and only a bit of tree on it precisely to prevent it soothing out the bumpiness for the purposed of the demo. And I resisted the urge to clean up the arcs, again precisely because the goal was to show the limitations more than the strengths. Sculpting the cc1 curve a little more, avoiding tempos beyond the scope of the existing legato and adding more reverb would all help.


But it's also very clear to me that different people perceive this kind of thing very, very differently. Far better musicians than myself swear by the SWAM instruments - which, while intellectually, I can admire the SWAM's ability to model the expressive dimensions of solo strings, I find extremely unpleasant to listen to. Emotional and Chris Hein, while much better - also suffer in this regard to my ear.

There's also the effect of the Bohemian's phrasing, which even in some of the demos really struggles to integrate coherency with the surrounding context. It really took me a while to learn what was bothering me so much. But it's when the phrasing is somehow off, even before I had enough understanding of string phrasing to even recognize consciously what the problem was, its like there's an uncanniness that leaves me sometimes leaves me simply not wanting to listen to it as music (the litmus test of vis isn't whether we can 'fool' people consciously, but whether they want to listen to the results as music). At least with the 'synth-ness' effect I recognize this uncanniness. Phrasing issues are more subtle, but somehow more pernicious in their de-musicifying effects. (Or anti-musicality effects?)


And what I was saying above is absolutely not that I can't intellectually identify a 'lack of realism' - they choppiness is clearly there. But again, to my ear, the phrasing is more or less right. There's a passion in the performance, the performance is beautiful, it's a style that - again not something you use to score a film and 12 year olds being chased by dinosaurs, but that I happen to really like also (in addition to that more prevalent dinosaur-appropriate style).

So its like there's an intellectual 'four aural wall', and an emotional 'fourth aural wall'. And it's the 'emotional realism' of the latter that I ultimately care about.


In any event, ostensibly to help get my head around the instrument a bit more (but also to block out ambient noise in the cafe where I was working), I put that above noodle on repeat for about an hour this morning, and - the terribleness of the actual composition aside - I didn't find that it fatigued my ear at all. In fact I just really love the sonority of even this otherwise pretty terrible noodle. I just don't know if there's many of the Bohemian demos I could say the same for.

So I think the perceptive dimensions here are very interesting. So when you say:

"Even in the first few seconds I hear multiple breaking the aural fourth wall, and it does feel like some of my early fumbling. Not synthy, but it sounds very choppy almost like a mic cable is frayed. "

I'm absolutely not saying your wrong (about your own perception, obviously), but I'm curious how literally you mean that? Because while I hear bumpiness sure, I just don't hear anything this extreme at all.

And if it isn't hyperbole, I'm curious if your think perception might be textured by one or more of :

a) being a cello player and just knowing extremely intimately how a cello is supposed to sound?

b) being an extremely classically trained cellist from a school in which smoothness of performance is a non-negotiable sin quo non inherent the musicality of the cello?

c) coming to the instrument having been deeply immersed in the smoother-than-smooth musicality of the Bohemian instruments.

d) Just really liking that immensely smooth style of playing.

... or any number of other things, because it would obviously be absurd to suggest that I could even have much what shapes your perceptions.


I'm not a cellist, so I'm certain not saying my own perceptions are anything anyone else should be concerned with. Maybe I have the benefit of ignorance.

But - just thinking out loud here - when I think of the style of cello music that I really like to listen to, there's often a bit of ... choppiness would be too strong a word, but a kind of roughness or physical intensity, though not bombast to it ... it's not the silky smooth Mozart concerto, or even Yo Yo Ma. And it's an entire expressive dimension that just doesn't exist within the scope of the Bohemian cello. You can't even play it this style badly, it just doesn't exist within the universe of the Bohemian Cello.

So it would be ridiculous to suggest that the Spitfire cello is anywhere near as good as, say, Caroline Dale really tearing into an exquisitely beautiful (though not necessarily pristinely smooth) cello line. But at the same time, maybe my ability to integration the choppiness without breaking the fourth wall is somehow textured but just wanting to get out of the expressing straight jacket of the Bohemian's 5 beautiful, langorous arcs?


Just a thought.


In any event the Spitfire instrument do not "just play" - unless you count sounding like a dead cat playing. Which is what happens if you just plonk in notes like you can get away with (at first) on a Bohemian instrument.


But with a bit practice, and an understanding of how to craft the arcs, they do let you play they instruments, and draw performances out of them. And its not all that hard once you get the hang of it.


Just to be clear - I've been using the Bohemian as bit of a foil here, but I really do love it. And I've been going back to it lately with what I've learn about crafting arcs from the Spitfire instruments. And while I'm less convinced that ever but this whole "virtual perform" concept, I am really finding that theres amazing things to be done with it that you just couldn't do with anything else - though its still all about the arcs. The conceit that it "just plays" strikes me as a seductive promise of instant gratification, but one that obscures the actual depths of the instrument.


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## IdealSequenceG (Dec 30, 2018)

It is sad that the recording legato samples are limited to FF legato samples. Other than that, it has a very good tone and seems to be quite useful as the First Chair.


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## Rey (Dec 31, 2018)

IdealSequenceG said:


> It is sad that the recording legato samples are limited to FF legato samples. Other than that, it has a very good tone and seems to be quite useful as the First Chair.



sounds really good. hows the violin?


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## StillLife (Dec 31, 2018)

ism said:


> Please don't retire your Bohemian! I have the Bohemian cello, and I really do love it also . But it's not just that they're good at different things, it's more like there in nothing that one can do well that the other can do even passably.
> 
> Because that languorous continuously evolving smoother-than-smooth style of arcs of the Bohemian - totally impossibly with Spitfire (at least until they integration the progressive vibrato samples into the cello).
> 
> ...


Great post. Emotional realism - exactly what I am also always striving for! 
I do tend to disagree about your comment that you cannot 'just play' SSoS. I posted a snippet of (singer/songwriter-like) music that was me 'just playing' shorts and progressive vib articulations, just using the modwheel while playing. Hoping (and thinking) it did not sound like a dead cat... I do understand much more is possible with this lib, and you can really tailor the sounds to your needs.
I also have the JB violin, which is a remarkable instrument indeed, but just like ism had with bohemian, I am having a hard time to make it fit my tunes. With SSoS, I really have a sense I can make the strings sound how I want them to sound. There's an inherent musicality (or indeed 'sonority') to these samples that makes me want to play with them, make music (I guess it IS a drug, jbuhler...).
In case it wasn't obvious already: I love SSoS, for me best vi-purchase of the year.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 31, 2018)

ism - just playing with again now and putting it into the all-new template. The sound that is most irritating to me is that extreme ducking sound, as if someone has yanked the gain knob and very quickly turned it up / down by 10db. A very unnatural sound. It seems to be most pronounced when riding the CCs, something is going squiffy there.

I strongly agree with those who say that the spiccato overlay on the Total Performance patch needs to be adjustable - personally I'd set it more at the 100 mark, not 9. That pronounced dig is something I associate with whacking the keys pretty hard. I get that this is meant to be a virtuoso playing style but if rapidly guides you into this over-emphasised path that is wearing to listen to. The buttery legato transitions are such an extreme contrast that it doesn't help. Don't get me wrong, it sounds great in and of itself, but has to be more judicious in its application. Oh, and yes some of those rebowings are a) incredibly quick after the start of the note and b) pretty ungainly, which is more stuff to find ways around.

First time I loaded the articulations patch for the Virtuoso, none of the long articulations had any release triggers. I loaded the individual ones and they were fine, went back to the main combo patch and then the release triggers were there ok this time. Exactly the same thing happened with all the other combo articulation patches. Combined with that GUI issue I had earlier - which thankfully hasn't come back yet today in VE Pro - I'm pretty nervous about the reliability of the engine all round.

Then I had to get reacquainted with Sptfires's, um, idiosyncratic method of keyswitching. I needed to reassign all the keyswitches to my layout convention which is seemingly straightforward enough, but this doesn't actually work unless you click "Locked to Program Change" in the drop down menu of the padlock bottom left for every single articulation. If that strikes you as very odd indeed, well it does me too. If you don't do this, you get double allocations everywhere. Its thus taken me a loooong time just to get the first three instruments to basic setup.

Out of scope of this thread really, but I definitely buy into the whole Virtual Performer thing - just as we don't want to tell real musicians exactly how to play every single note, it is clearly the way forward for me to instruct a broad playing style rather than every single nuance. Bohemian accordingly loved me and told me I was simply wonderful from the very first notes I played (I don't find the different arcs too constraining, ism). It feels a bit like what Spitfire are trying to do here with the virtuoso patch, but its nothing like the same experience... by contrast Solo Strings is a mardy, borderline sarcastic and tempermental diva.

But that's something I have to make my peace with - Still Life has shown its possible to get lovely things out of this without hours of editing, so I should perservere. Once again available time has beaten me today to get it to a point where I can start actually writing something with it.


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## EBicks (Dec 31, 2018)

Just wanted to say thanks for the input everyone! I didn’t expect to get such a large amount of great information when originally posting this.. ha ha. Looking forward to spending more time with the Lib to get the best out of it


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## IdealSequenceG (Dec 31, 2018)

Rey said:


> sounds really good. hows the violin?



yes


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## ism (Dec 31, 2018)

StillLife said:


> Great post. Emotional realism - exactly what I am also always striving for!
> I do tend to disagree about your comment that you cannot 'just play' SSoS. I posted a snippet of (singer/songwriter-like) music that was me 'just playing' shorts and progressive vib articulations, just using the modwheel while playing. Hoping (and thinking) it did not sound like a dead cat... I do understand much more is possible with this lib, and you can really tailor the sounds to your needs.
> I also have the JB violin, which is a remarkable instrument indeed, but just like ism had with bohemian, I am having a hard time to make it fit my tunes. With SSoS, I really have a sense I can make the strings sound how I want them to sound. There's an inherent musicality (or indeed 'sonority') to these samples that makes me want to play with them, make music (I guess it IS a drug, jbuhler...).
> In case it wasn't obvious already: I love SSoS, for me best vi-purchase of the year.




You’re quite right. I was focusing very specifically on crafting a certain style of very orchestral line with the legato. Trust me, I can make it sound like a dying cat in this context.

But your piece - and this is why I found it so interesting - is a reminded of another huge sweet spot of the library - it’s sheer sonority.

The amazing thing about the first few demos of this library, which I think were released before the legato was ready - is that with not a legato transition in sight, they had an amazing solo string quality that I think is just in a whole other arm of the aesthetic universe from anything I’d heard with a sample library before.

So it’s a good reminder that I should get my head out of the legato for a bit and think about some of the rest of the library.

I’m going to listen to you piece a few more times before offering any suggests (though seriously, I am not an expert especially in pop. but it might be interesting to see if there are any technical tips from the orchestral legato world that might be relevant in the world of pop sonority.)

I might also go back to Christian’s in action video - which is a bit of a masterclass in crafting the sonority of the library in itself, and will probably offer you more insight than anything I can suggest.


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## Rey (Dec 31, 2018)

IdealSequenceG said:


> yes



wow very pretty thank you


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## IdealSequenceG (Jan 1, 2019)

one more


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## joebaggan (Jan 3, 2019)

What is the memory footprint for each of the Spitfire Solo Strings patches? I'm mostly used to libs with a small footprint and was recently surprised at how big (1gb) the Fluffy wind solo instruments are since I don't have a ton of RAM.


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## mventura (Jan 3, 2019)

joebaggan said:


> What is the memory footprint for each of the Spitfire Solo Strings patches? I'm mostly used to libs with a small footprint and was recently surprised at how big (1gb) the Fluffy wind solo instruments are since I don't have a ton of RAM.



With the close and tree mics on each instrument is about 1 GB. There are economic patches that only have a few articulations. There also are individual articulation patches.


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## Scamper (Jan 3, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


>



I used to get this more with older Spitfire libraries, but restarting the Kontakt Engine with the "!"-button also fixed it for me.


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## joebaggan (Jan 3, 2019)

mventura said:


> With the close and tree mics on each instrument is about 1 GB. There are economic patches that only have a few articulations. There also are individual articulation patches.



Thanks, by "economic" patches, what size are those about? One thing I like about the LASS First Chair strings are that they are small size (e.g. 100mb) and fast to load, so wondering if SSS has similar size patches.


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## mventura (Jan 3, 2019)

joebaggan said:


> Thanks, by "economic" patches, what size are those about? One thing I like about the LASS First Chair strings are that they are small size (e.g. 100mb) and fast to load, so wondering if SSS has similar size patches.


~500 MB with 2 mics turned on


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## ism (Jan 3, 2019)

joebaggan said:


> What is the memory footprint for each of the Spitfire Solo Strings patches? I'm mostly used to libs with a small footprint and was recently surprised at how big (1gb) the Fluffy wind solo instruments are since I don't have a ton of RAM.




First chair Vl /w 1 mic - 319M
Virtuosic Vl /w 1 mic & time machine disabled - 430M
Va 1 mic - 285M
Vc 1 mic 360M


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## Casiquire (Jan 4, 2019)

IdealSequenceG said:


> yes




That sounds wonderful! That's the CLOSE mic though?!


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## brenneisen (Jan 4, 2019)

Casiquire said:


> That's the CLOSE mic though?!



??


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## rottoy (Jan 4, 2019)

IdealSequenceG said:


> one more


 Fuck yes, dropping some Hisaishi in here! (Kiki's Delivery Service, in this case.)


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## mventura (Jan 4, 2019)

Anyone getting phasing issues with the viola? I get bumps/hiccups when going from p to f but not say mf to ff.


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## fiction (Jan 4, 2019)

1st desk also... and some phasing on virtuoso too


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## Casiquire (Jan 4, 2019)

brenneisen said:


> ??



Yes. That's my point. Thing is drenched in room sound.


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## mventura (Jan 4, 2019)

Casiquire said:


> Yes. That's my point. Thing is drenched in room sound.



That must have a reverb plugin on it. The close mics don't sound like that. They are pretty dry. I can't even use the tree mic on this library because it's too roomy and wet.


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