# Halloween Sale on the full Symphobia Series... save €150/$200!



## ProjectSAM (Oct 30, 2013)

Hey all,

*This Halloween, the full Symphobia Series is on sale!*

*Save €150/$200* on Symphobia 3: Lumina, Symphobia 2 and Symphobia from Wednesday Oct 30th until Monday Nov 4th 18:00 GMT+1!







Go to our website at www.projectsam.com for more information.

Warm regards,

The SAM Team
www.projectsam.com[/img]


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## playz123 (Oct 30, 2013)

Yes, this does indeed mean a significant saving for those who don't own PS products, such as Symphobia 1 and 2 and OE. BUT not so much of a bargain for those who do own those products and can normally apply a Loyalty Discount. The normal price minus the loyalty discount isn't far off the sale price today (where no loyalty discount can be applied). So for me, it's not really much of a "sale" nor much of an incentive to purchase Lumina right now.


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## mushanga (Oct 30, 2013)

playz123 @ Wed 30 Oct said:


> Yes, this does indeed mean a significant saving for those who don't own PS products, such as Symphobia 1 and 2 and OT. BUT not so much of a bargain for those who do own those products and can normally apply a Loyalty Discount. The normal price minus the loyalty discount isn't far off the sale price today (where no loyalty discount can be applied). So for me, it's not really much of a "sale" nor much of an incentive to purchase Lumina right now.



+1

..sorry but these products are simply not priced competitively enough to warrant the expense.


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## muziksculp (Oct 30, 2013)

Hi,

Good to see some discounts from ProjectSam. 

I have Symphobia 1 , have bee thinking about getting Lumina. 

But since Symphobia 2 is discounted, I'm trying to decide which would be more useful to get, Lumina or Symphobia 2 ? 

Which one do you feel will be a better, more useful choice ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 30, 2013)

Project Sam folks - I'm getting "Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'com_exception'" when I try to log in at your site. Same message on Chrome or IE.

Hoping we can get the loyalty discount too, then that's a pretty compelling offer.

EDIT - Muziksculp, I'm not sure anyone can really answer that for you, they seem focused on quite different areas to me (not owning either yet). Don't forget you can try version 1.0 S2 at least at trysound.com - it's a shame it's only 1.0 and there's no Lumina at all, but better than nothing.

EDIT 2 - looks like the whole site is down now, I'll try again later.


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## lpuser (Oct 30, 2013)

Based on the website info, neither loyalty nor other discounts can be combined.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 30, 2013)

Yes, got the website back now. Oooh, feels like an own-goal by PS to deny the loyalty discount. It's still a good offer, but that's just a nasty sting in the tail that inevitably will irritate existing customers. I was ready to press BUY but I'm a-wavering again now. Yet again.


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## Stephen Rees (Oct 30, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Oct 30 said:


> Yes, got the website back now. Oooh, feels like an own-goal by PS to deny the loyalty discount. It's still a good offer, but that's just a nasty sting in the tail that inevitably will irritate existing customers. I was ready to press BUY but I'm a-wavering again now. Yet again.



Agreed.

I was ready to buy Lumina with the Halloween PLUS Loyalty discount, but given the fact we can't use the loyalty discount there's no compelling reason to buy right now, so Lumina goes back onto my 'possibly sometime maybe never' list.

Oh well, it leaves more money to invest in Spitfire stuff so nothing lost really - I still win


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## muziksculp (Oct 30, 2013)

Hi,

What exactly is the Loyalty Discount ? 

I own quite a few of ProjSam libraries. I wonder if this would apply to me ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 30, 2013)

It's $50 off another symphobia product if you own one symphobia, $100 if you own two. But, it seems, it is not valid in the sale.


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## playz123 (Oct 30, 2013)

If anyone is having trouble with the math, and doesn't understand my first post....

For those of us who own S1, S2 and OE, the total Loyalty Discount is $130 off the list price. However it can only be applied when items are NOT on sale though.

So if someone like myself were to buy Lumina today during the sale, I would only save $70. However if a new customer bought it today they would save $200. Hardly seems fair to me, but what do I know?


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## playz123 (Oct 30, 2013)

muziksculp @ Wed Oct 30 said:


> Hi,
> 
> What exactly is the Loyalty Discount ?
> 
> ...



You would need to log into your PS account to see what your Loyalty Discount is normally, but, no, it's of no use during this sale. At present you can only use it as a discount off the regular price after the sale is over.


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## quantum7 (Oct 30, 2013)

orchestranova @ Wed Oct 30 said:


> playz123 @ Wed 30 Oct said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, this does indeed mean a significant saving for those who don't own PS products, such as Symphobia 1 and 2 and OT. BUT not so much of a bargain for those who do own those products and can normally apply a Loyalty Discount. The normal price minus the loyalty discount isn't far off the sale price today (where no loyalty discount can be applied). So for me, it's not really much of a "sale" nor much of an incentive to purchase Lumina right now.
> ...



+2

For a company that charges more than nearly every other sample developer out there, they seem to be stingy with their sales and supposed loyalty discounts. I'm so happy that PS is in the minority in this strange marketing strategy. Perhaps they should look to a company like Virharmonic or Spitfire and see what loyalty means.


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## muziksculp (Oct 30, 2013)

playz123 @ Wed Oct 30 said:


> muziksculp @ Wed Oct 30 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...



Thanks for the feedback. 

Well... I have three options before the Sale Ends :

1. Buy Symphobia 2
2. Buy Lumina
3. Buy Nothing during the sale period. 

I will try to decide by Nov. 4th. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## jleckie (Oct 30, 2013)

quantum7 @ Wed Oct 30 said:


> For a company that charges more than nearly every other sample developer out there, they seem to be stingy with their sales and supposed loyalty discounts. I'm so happy that PS is in the minority in this strange marketing strategy. Perhaps they should look to a company like Virharmonic or Spitfire and see what loyalty means.



I think that is a bit harsh to be frank. First off I know several composers who have made so much money off of the syphobias that the price is more than justified. Secondly there are plenty of companies out there that have ZERo loyalty discount in place and I do not see people complaining about them.


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## playz123 (Oct 30, 2013)

Re: "I think that is a bit harsh to be frank"

No, it's quite easy to be frank most days.
One must be careful how one uses the the word "frank" around here though.


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## quantum7 (Oct 30, 2013)

jleckie @ Wed Oct 30 said:


> quantum7 @ Wed Oct 30 said:
> 
> 
> > For a company that charges more than nearly every other sample developer out there, they seem to be stingy with their sales and supposed loyalty discounts. I'm so happy that PS is in the minority in this strange marketing strategy. Perhaps they should look to a company like Virharmonic or Spitfire and see what loyalty means.
> ...



Perhaps it is a bit harsh, but I had an incident with PS years ago that made me feel at the time that they did not understand loyalty very well. I've made just as much money from my $50 libs as my expensive libs, so return on investment matters little to me over excellent customer service. Anyway, that was then. I'm glad to see they are at least trying to reward loyalty now, though, and I sincerely wish them the best of luck.


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## Udo (Oct 30, 2013)

Time for a petition by S1, S2 owners to PS?


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 31, 2013)

Udo @ Thu Oct 31 said:


> Time for a petition by S1, S2 owners to PS?



Well I'm sure they've seen the comments on this thread and you can always make a comment on their FB page. IMO that's enough - needless to say it's entirely their call in how they conduct their sales.

I think it was not a smart PR move to remove the loyalty discount, it just feels bad. If they'd lessened the discount by $50 overall and retained the loyalty, they'd probably have ended up selling more for what would probably be about the same money in the end. On the other hand, I'm quite surprised that Lumina is in the sale at all as it's quite a new product.

On the issue of worth - unquestionably S1 was worth it for me, and it was a product very different at the time to anything else out there. It pushed up my minutes per day of output single-handedly.


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## Astronaut FX (Oct 31, 2013)

I've only been a member here a short time, but lurked for some time before that. I'm always taken aback by the number of public flogging incidents I see here. I think it's fair game to air grievances here and in other forums if you feel you've been mistreated by a developer or retailer. However, I think it's more fair to do so _after_ you've come up short in dealing directly with them. Then, by all means, flog away. At that point, I see it as a public service. 

I'm a firm believer that if you present your case directly to the developer/retailer, more often than not, I think you'll find they are amenable to some sort of arrangement.

I highly doubt that anyone at ProjectSAM intentionally designed this promotion as a way to stick it to those who would otherwise be eligible for the loyalty discount. The sale levels the playing field to offer a generous discount to everyone. There's nothing wrong with that. Sure, if you are already entitled to a loyalty discount, the sale doesn't offer you a huge break, but it's still a decent offer.


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## paulmatthew (Oct 31, 2013)

Tone Deaf @ Thu Oct 31 said:


> I've only been a member here a short time, but lurked for some time before that. I'm always taken aback by the number of public flogging incidents I see here. I think it's fair game to air grievances here and in other forums if you feel you've been mistreated by a developer or retailer. However, I think it's more fair to do so _after_ you've come up short in dealing directly with them. Then, by all means, flog away. At that point, I see it as a public service.
> 
> I'm a firm believer that if you present your case directly to the developer/retailer, more often than not, I think you'll find they are amenable to some sort of arrangement.
> 
> I highly doubt that anyone at ProjectSAM intentionally designed this promotion as a way to stick it to those who would otherwise be eligible for the loyalty discount. The sale levels the playing field to offer a generous discount to everyone. There's nothing wrong with that. Sure, if you are already entitled to a loyalty discount, the sale doesn't offer you a huge break, but it's still a decent offer.



+1 well said


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## playz123 (Oct 31, 2013)

Tone Deaf @ Thu Oct 31 said:


> I've only been a member here a short time, but lurked for some time before that. I'm always taken aback by the number of public flogging incidents I see here. I think it's fair game to air grievances here and in other forums if you feel you've been mistreated by a developer or retailer. However, I think it's more fair to do so _after_ you've come up short in dealing directly with them. Then, by all means, flog away. At that point, I see it as a public service.
> 
> I'm a firm believer that if you present your case directly to the developer/retailer, more often than not, I think you'll find they are amenable to some sort of arrangement.
> 
> I highly doubt that anyone at ProjectSAM intentionally designed this promotion as a way to stick it to those who would otherwise be eligible for the loyalty discount. The sale levels the playing field to offer a generous discount to everyone. There's nothing wrong with that. Sure, if you are already entitled to a loyalty discount, the sale doesn't offer you a huge break, but it's still a decent offer.



Sorry I can't agree that anyone here has been "flogging" Project Sam, and I think most of the respondents have made their point without being disrespectful. It never hurts to mention a concern, and in this case I suggest many of the arguments are valid. It's our job as consumers to always get the best price we can, and it's up to the developers to determine if our requests are reasonable or not. All I'll add here is, that if we had been allowed to apply our loyalty discounts and get $200 off the price we would normally pay...just like new customers are able to do, then I suspect PS would also have seen an increase in sales to loyal customers.


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## FriFlo (Oct 31, 2013)

I agree with Guy. I bought S1 second hand from someone, so I wouldn't even get a loyalty discount. But even with the 150€ discount I couldn't afford this right now. I have so many tools, now I really need more jobs to justify these kind of expenses.  I am sure both S2 and Lumina are great tools, but I really have to be blown away by a product to spend so much money again. S1 is kind of a standard, whereas the other two are more like icing on the cake, if you happen to have all those other libraries already ...


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Oct 31, 2013)

For the price of Symphobia I could buy the next Albion in line. I've played around with a friend's copy of Symphobia and watched the walkthroughs. I'm not a fan of the sound, it just doesn't appeal to me which is usually why I say nothing but it does seem a little tightfisted for them to offer such a measly discount for something that you can hear in scores everywhere. I think a lot of PS stuff gets overused because it has that big sound. That's great for people that like that sound but I personally don't see it being worth that much these days, Lumina, maybe but the other two aren't. I am not knocking their samples, it is just a matter of taste for me.


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## Udo (Oct 31, 2013)

I wasn't criticizing PS when I suggested a petition by S1 and S2 owners. It's merely a suggestion, which could also benefit PS.

I have S1 and S2. If I got the 2x $50 loyalty discount in addition to the Halloween discount, I would buy Lumina now. It's not attractive for me at the current discount, which is only sightly more than the loyalty discount, which I can get anytime.


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## muziksculp (Oct 31, 2013)

Hi,

Question to Symphobia 2 users. 

What are the stars of this library, i.e. what do you use a lot from Symphobia 2, especially if you already have Symphobia 1. 

I'm still trying to decide if Symphobia 2 would be a more useful library than Lumina. 

Any feedback on this would be a big help. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## playz123 (Oct 31, 2013)

muziksculp @ Thu Oct 31 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Question to Symphobia 2 users.
> 
> ...



I have and use both S1 and S2, but, of the two, I use S1 the most and find it the better of the two for my needs. If I only had S1 and had to make a choice between purchasing S2 or Lumina today, I think I would probably choose Lumina. But those are just my opinions of course.


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## muziksculp (Oct 31, 2013)

playz123 @ Thu Oct 31 said:


> muziksculp @ Thu Oct 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...



Hi playz123,

Thanks for the helpful feedback. 

I was guessing that Lumina would be more useful to have. I have Symphobia 1, so I will most likely go with Lumina instead of Symphobia 2. 

On the other hand, there does not seem to be a lot of Lumina users here. so, it has been a bit difficult to evaluate it. Lumina was recently updated with more content, which is a good thing. Hopefully this will continue to happen in the future. 

Oh... I forgot to add that ProjecSam had announced something new for next year as well. Should be interesting to see what they have been working on besides Lumina. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## playz123 (Oct 31, 2013)

@muziksculp...

In an an earlier thread on Lumina, a lot of people were interested in it, but to be candid, price was a deciding factor for many. Most people weren't questioning Project Sam's decision in that regard, but were simply suggesting that the price was a bit too steep for their budget. It was also mentioned what else $1100 can buy these days, and then there were comments on price versus value to the end user. I think for many the bottom line is that if one feels it's worth the money, based one's needs and budget, then by all means proceed. Personally, I think it would be nice to have, but there are other libraries that I can purchase for the same amount of money, and currently I'm still focusing on them instead. If the suggestion that loyal customers be permitted to use their loyalty discount for this sale was granted, I might reconsider my decision though.  Cheers..........frank


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## simon_james (Oct 31, 2013)

Yeah, even at that sale price I don't believe the price of Lumina is justifiable, let alone the two older Symphobia products. Yeah, i know that you record a full orchestra and need to pay all the musicians etc etc etc, but when a competitive product like Tutti is available for 200 euros I'm not sure how ProjectSAM can justify the price.

This "sale" is pretty meh, in my opinion.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 31, 2013)

muziksculp @ Thu Oct 31 said:


> Oh... I forgot to add that ProjecSam had announced something new for next year as well. Should be interesting to see what they have been working on besides Lumina.



I think that was a bit of confusion caused by re-opening last year's sales thread, where they teased what turned out to be Lumina. Of course I may have missed something actually new.

I'm all ears if anyone here buys Lumina in the sale - keen to hear some detailed views. In the absence of Trysound, it's crying out for some Daniel James video love...


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 31, 2013)

Simon - welcome to the forum. I disagree that Symphobia 1 is comparable to Tutti. If you added Tutti and Da Capo together you'd get a little closer, but all sound issues aside, it still isn't nearly as integrated. Those S1 multis are pure gold. If you score to picture and need to get through a lot of minutes a day, I'd say it's definitely worth the price.


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## voxhumana (Oct 31, 2013)

Hi all

I know nothing about Symphobia 1,2 or 3. I have available cash but zero time to look at these closely (at least before the sale is done, got WAY too much going on).

I chiefly do pop vocal arranging and TV cues for children's television**. I currently have all the VSL special editions and EW Orch Platinum.

My current thinking is that Symphobia lacks the flexibility of these full orchestral suites, but makes up for it in terms of "turnkey" orchestration. 

Is my thinking correct? If so, which of the 3 is my best option?


(**The kid's show is a European production heavily inspired by Pee Wee's Playhouse, so the music is possibly more sophisticated than you might find in a typical kid's show.)


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## re-peat (Nov 1, 2013)

muziksculp @ Thu Oct 31 said:


> (...) I was guessing that Lumina would be more useful to have. (...)


Could be, but never underestimate the power and versatility of Symphobia 2 though. (An all too common mistake, leading to the totally preposterous ideas that 2 is somehow inferior to 1 and thus even more criminally overpriced.)

Call me eccentric, but I actually prefer S2 over S1. If I had to start over again today, I'd definitely buy S2 again. And at full price, no problem. I'd probably get S1 again as well, but that is less of an absolute certainty. 
And my affection for S2 is almost entirely based on a single folder of patches: its "Individual Sections", a collection, in my view, as golden as you can get this side of silence.
Whenever I decide that a piece of music needs symphobiafication (I once won a game of Scrabble with that word), S2's Individual Sections is always my first port of call. And often the last as well, as it contains just about everything I hope to find.

As for comparing Symphobia with the Sonokinetic range: even if you combine DaCapo, Tutti, Vivace and, yes, why not throw in Minimal as well, you still haven't covered half the vast territory that Symphobia oversees which unthreatened, majestic authority.

_


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## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2013)

re-peat @ Fri Nov 01 said:


> muziksculp @ Thu Oct 31 said:
> 
> 
> > (...) I was guessing that Lumina would be more useful to have. (...)
> ...



Hi re-peat,

Thank You for the very helpful, and interesting feedback regarding *Symphobia 2*. I appreciate it (a lot). 

Actually, since I have *Symphobia 1*, I was always tempted to grab *Symphobia 2*, I felt this would make the most logical way to proceed, but was never sure if I should get it, and frequently came across comments that made me feel that it might not be worth the investment, after reading your feedback, I'm sure *Symphobia 2* will be a great addition to my sample library tool box. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## quantum7 (Nov 1, 2013)

re-peat @ Fri Nov 01 said:


> muziksculp @ Thu Oct 31 said:
> 
> 
> > (...) I was guessing that Lumina would be more useful to have. (...)
> ...



I agree! S2 is night and day better than S1...to me at least. 

Lumina- sounds like an interesting library and right up my alley since I compose a lot of New Age music, but I cannot justify the steep price. There is absolutely nothing special about Lumina that cannot be had by buying 2 or 3 other libraries....which would still be much less money than Lumina.


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## muziksculp (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi,

_Thank You_ for all the helpful feedback. 

Well... I just ordered *Symphobia 2* at $799. 

I'm sure it will be a very useful library, and will end up using it a lot. 

I will wait and see what the new library ProjectSam has for us next year, and also consider Lumina next year. 

But for now I feel Symphobia 2 was a very good, and wise choice. especially since I have Symphobia 1. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## toomanynotes (Nov 2, 2013)

i got public flogging for questioning VSL's prices...so i suppose there's nothing wrong with the pricing here, If VSL can do it, so can project sam and co


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 2, 2013)

Still no-one sprung for Lumina? :? 

This is an interesting thread to reflect on. It's good to hear such positive reports of S2. Sounds like its the legatos that people especially like in the library, I guess I look to other libraries for legatos where there's more focus on individual instruments and detail (velocity layers / range etc). But one thing I've noticed in Cinebrass is that I tend to gravitate to the one-velocity solo horn and trumpet in Core above the more versatile Pro alternatives, albeit only for slower and quieter lines - they just have more magic and are more convincing to my ears. So I can see how S2 might be similar, and the PS sound is certainly killer.

But for those like me who are primarily looking to the Symphobia series for quick working, Lumina is still the more attractive choice I think... I'd so love to get more first hand reports though.


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## muziksculp (Nov 2, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Nov 02 said:


> Still no-one sprung for Lumina? :?
> 
> This is an interesting thread to reflect on. It's good to hear such positive reports of S2. Sounds like its the legatos that people especially like in the library, I guess I look to other libraries for legatos where there's more focus on individual instruments and detail (velocity layers / range etc). But one thing I've noticed in Cinebrass is that I tend to gravitate to the one-velocity solo horn and trumpet in Core above the more versatile Pro alternatives, albeit only for slower and quieter lines - they just have more magic and are more convincing to my ears. So I can see how S2 might be similar, and the PS sound is certainly killer.
> 
> But for those like me who are primarily looking to the Symphobia series for quick working, Lumina is still the more attractive choice I think... I'd so love to get more first hand reports though.



I did not go for Lumina (at this time), mainly because :

1. Not enough feedback from users.
2. Not enough demos/videos are available at PSam's Website, or from other sources to better evaluate it. 
3. I felt that Symp.2 will be more useful for my needs. Lumina a bit too specific.
4. Lumina still costs more than Symph. 2
5. Proj.Sam will be releasing a new library next year, so, I might like it more than Lumina. 

Cheers, and Good luck deciding,
Muziksculp


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 2, 2013)

muziksculp @ Sat Nov 02 said:


> 5. Proj.Sam will be releasing a new library next year, so, I might like it more than Lumina.



Sorry to raise this again, but do we know this? AFAIK that news was a misunderstanding based on the resurrection of a year-old thread.


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## muziksculp (Nov 2, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Nov 02 said:


> muziksculp @ Sat Nov 02 said:
> 
> 
> > 5. Proj.Sam will be releasing a new library next year, so, I might like it more than Lumina.
> ...



Quote of ProjectSam Post : 

_Also... 

We are working hard towards a new release in Q1 2013. More information will be revealed over the next few months. We like to say that this is our biggest endeavour yet and definitely the most exciting library we have worked on! Stay tuned!_

I think he meant Q1 2014 :lol: Unless it was a mistake, referring to Lumina, which is already out. 

Here is the link to the post :

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28298

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## EwigWanderer (Nov 2, 2013)

muziksculp @ 2nd November 2013 said:


> Quote of ProjectSam Post :
> 
> _Also...
> 
> ...



That post was written at Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:41 am. So they were talking about Lumina.


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## muziksculp (Nov 2, 2013)

Oh ... Yup it was a 2012 post. Didn't notice that. (Sorry about that). 

So ...maybe Nothing new from ProjSam in 2014.


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## Astronaut FX (Nov 2, 2013)

I would break down the description/comparison of the three as follows:

Of the three S1 is much more of a bread and butter, orchestral basics library. It's the kind of library, that if you were only going to own one orchestral library, it would be a great choice and you could do quite a bit with it.

S2 is very much an extension of the sounds, feel, and atmosphere of S1. It takes what worked well in S1 and adds to it, and provides a deeper dive into orchestral effects and fills in the gaps nicely as to what may be missing from S1. Both S1 and S2 share a "darker" approach to orchestral sounds and presentation. If you have and like S1, and you want more of what made you love S1, then S2 is a great choice.

Lumina is the most different of the three, and differs in several substantial ways. There are no multis. The overall sound and atmosphere is very different from S! and S2, in that Lumina is a departure from the "dark" approach of the other two, and ventures into lighter sounding fare that is more geared toward fantasy, etc. Lumina likely shares more in common with Best Service's Epic World, Era, and Forest Kingom II than it does with S1 and S2, at least from this particular standpoint. That being said, it can be layered with either S1 and S2 without sounding out of place.

Lumina shares a very similar interface with S1 and S2, but the meat and potatoes patches for Lumina are the Stories patches, in which two or more layers are paired up and laid out across the keys. You can turn each layer on/off, up/down, but you can't add/remove/swap layers.

There are also plenty of effects and dystopia in Lumina as well, but whereas the effects in S1 and S2 were darker, they are a bit lighter in Lumina. If you have S1 or S2 and are looking for something truly different to supplement them, Lumina would be a good choice.

S1 has more in common with S2 than it does with Lumina. Lumina has more in common with S2 than it does with S1. All three are good libraries, and which one are "best" for you depends on your needs.


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## jleckie (Nov 2, 2013)

Tone Deaf @ Sat Nov 02 said:


> There are also plenty of effects and dystopia in Lumina as well, but whereas the effects in S1 and S2 were darker, they are a bit lighter in Lumina.



Can you expound on that? I would be curious as to what the dystopia bits are? Phrases? Hits? Risers? Lighter as in how? Fewer players? Less dense orchestration? Higher pitched? tia


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## Astronaut FX (Nov 2, 2013)

jleckie @ Sat Nov 02 said:


> Tone Deaf @ Sat Nov 02 said:
> 
> 
> > There are also plenty of effects and dystopia in Lumina as well, but whereas the effects in S1 and S2 were darker, they are a bit lighter in Lumina.
> ...



For the most part, Lumina as a whole is "lighter" than the other two, including the dystopia and effects. For me anyway, a lot of the effects/dystopia included in either S1 or S2 reminds me of the what I'd hear in a slasher movie (dark, scary, creepy). In Lumina, the effects/dystopia are more in the vein of what you'd hear in a Final Fantasy video game or something of that nature (light, whimsical, uplifting). Don't get me wrong, there is a fair amount of creepiness in Lumina as well, and there's no mistaking that Lumina is part of the Symphobia series, I'm just trying to make it clear that it is still very different.

If very different is what you're looking for, then it's a great library. If you already have S1 and/or S2 and are expecting more of the same, then you might be disappointed. Especially if you have no use for anything outside of what would be considered traditional orchestral instrumentation. If however, you do much in the way of scoring for video games, fantasy, etc. then Lumina could be exactly what you need.


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## jleckie (Nov 2, 2013)

Very interesting. I may get this. The multis in S1 and S2 are extremely well laid out. How are they in Lumina?


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## jleckie (Nov 2, 2013)

Sorry for all the questions. 

Is the symphobian sardines the same sardinos s in S1?


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## Astronaut FX (Nov 2, 2013)

jleckie @ Sat Nov 02 said:


> Very interesting. I may get this. The multis in S1 and S2 are extremely well laid out. How are they in Lumina?



No multis in Lumina.

Multis are essentially replaced with a folder of "Stories" patches in Lumina. These patches are prebuilt layers of instruments. You can disable individual instruments, adjust the volume of each, adjust attack, release, reverb, eq, and pitch of each. But you can't swap out instruments for different ones - no customization. There are three mic positions (global for full patch). ProjectSam really plays up the Stories patches, as something that you can grab out of the box and find inspiration. I can see that, but if you're looking for an exact combination, it may have been nice if you could customize what's included in any given Stories patch.

Again, it's a good library, and what's included sounds as good as S1 and S2. At the same time, it's just not an all purpose library. But for the right application, it could be the perfect library.

There is a page on ProjectSam's website that lists all the patches, and I think you'll be able to tell a lot about it by looking over that list.

http://www.projectsam.com/Products/Symphobia-Series/1427


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## Astronaut FX (Nov 2, 2013)

jleckie @ Sat Nov 02 said:


> Sorry for all the questions.
> 
> Is the symphobian sardines the same sardinos s in S1?



It's funny you mention that...there is a patch in Lumina (Orchestra - Symphobian Sordino) that just happens to be (in my opinion) one of the most gorgeous patches in the library. I'm not aware of anything in S1 that would be identical. I have to assume that perhaps you're referring to a patch in S1 (1 String Ensemble Long Notes), one of the options under which is "Sustain Sordino."

If that's the S1 patch you're referring to, then no, they are not the same. They are similar, however, the Lumina patch is more lush and brilliant sounding...a nicer sounding patch in my opinion

However, this particular patch is a great example of one that layers quite well with S1/S2 patches and helps give Lumina the Symphobia signature.

Something to correct from one of my earlier statements. Some patches have three mic positions, others have only two, some don't have any mic position adjustments at all. But I think that's fairly normal within ProjectSam libraries.


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## jleckie (Nov 2, 2013)

I really appreciate the time you took to answer my questions. 

I will check those individual patch listings. And thanks for stating what (should have!) been obvious to me. Stories replacing multis. I should have figured THAT out from the PS vids.

Yes that sordino patch sounds beautiful.

[EDIT] According to PS the only instrument amen from earlier S series' is the SORDS

"String sordino & soft sustain set taken from Symphobia"


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 3, 2013)

Well I thought I should take another S2 roadtest at trysound. Perhaps unsurprisingly, my views haven't changed since the first release, but I'm acutely aware that this is the 1.0 version, whereas the release is now 1.3. So I have a few specific questions to S2 owners who might be able to shed a little light on some of the changes.

LEGATO DYNAMICS AND RANGES

This has to be the biggest one. I'm really impressed with the sound and the smoothness of the legato, and they have some killer combos which would be a great asset to have. I see on the PS website that there are now 2 dynamics for Hn Tbn, Vcl Db in Oct, Vlns in Oct and Hn Vln Vla, all of which looks very important to me. Does it provide you with enough of a range? Do they tend towards p or f?

I made a note of a few instruments ranges which seem pretty restricted to me - grateful if any S2 owners with 1.3 could see how they've changed?

Bn + Vcl D1 - Bb2
Vn + Fl A2 - G4
Hn + Bn - C2 - B3
Vcl + Db - B0 - F#2
Vns oct - G2 - G4


MULTIS

I'm not a fan of the kind of multi where different instruments are ranged across the keyboard. Could anyone comment if the new multis are more like the old school layered types, and are they useful?

As it stands, I'm (yet again) tending away from S2. It's quite something to listen to the audio demos for S1 - they're breathtaking still, and show just what can be achieved with the original on its own.

Grateful for your comments, Tone Deaf, on Lumina in particular. How do you find its legato instruments? I wasn't too impressed with their walkthrough video there, but I know 1.1 has apparently smoothed them. Are they comparable in quality to the S2 legatos?


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## playz123 (Nov 3, 2013)

It surprises me a little that someone from PS hasn't stopped by this thread to respond to some of the questions and concerns. They are usually quite good about that sort of thing. Maybe they are just busy with the sale, but I for one would have found input useful, especially when thinking about purchasing decisions. Maybe we should all be contacting them directly via their web site???


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## playz123 (Nov 3, 2013)

muziksculp @ Sat Nov 02 said:


> Oh ... Yup it was a 2012 post. Didn't notice that. (Sorry about that).
> 
> So ...maybe Nothing new from ProjSam in 2014.



May I also offer a final word of caution? While some of us may find S1 more useful than S2, while someone else finds S2 to be better suited for their needs, or Lumina is or isn't the best choice, in the end they are just that...opinions. What is really important here is for you to make your choice on what YOU know or feel you know will be best for YOU. They are all good products. But, yes, in some instances, a purchaser certainly could use a little more info or walkthroughs, for example, to help them decide. Even with the sale, an informed choice is still important. Hope you enjoy whatever product you eventually choose.............frank


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 4, 2013)

Last day of the sale - and still not much further forward in my decision making process. Which for me always means a no-buy default unless I can get a bit more info. So a final call from me for any info from PS or members on the following:

SYMPHOBIA 2

Legato ranges in 1.3, how do they compare with the following 1.0 ranges?

Bn + Vcl D1 - Bb2 
Vn + Fl A2 - G4 
Hn + Bn - C2 - B3 
Vcl + Db - B0 - F#2 
Vns oct - G2 - G4 

Legato dynamics in 1.3 - are they smooth? Do the extra dynamics tend towards p or f?

LUMINA

General user feedback appreciated, especially on any improvements in 1.1 legato.


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## Ed (Nov 4, 2013)

To be honest with all the libs these days I would get Lumina and not Sym2, assuming you own those other libs or plan to buy them. I dont have Lumina however, I just think it has things my other libs dont.


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## playz123 (Nov 4, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Nov 03 said:


> I made a note of a few instruments ranges which seem pretty restricted to me - grateful if any S2 owners with 1.3 could see how they've changed?
> 
> Bn + Vcl D1 - Bb2
> Vn + Fl A2 - G4
> ...



With C3 as middle C, currently in version 1.33 I see:

Bn + Vcl C1 - C3
"Fl + Vn" A2 - A4
"Hn + TBn"? Bb1 - B3
Vcl + Db - B0 - G#2
Vns oct - G2 - Bb4

So yes, they've changed a bit. As for the rest will try to get at that later today if no one else has had time before then.


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 4, 2013)

Thanks Frank - every note is useful, but I'm not sure that's quite enough to lure me.

And I see time has run out I think. These darned quick sales. Well, for me ultimately I think either S2 or Lumina feel like luxuries more than essentials.


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## playz123 (Nov 4, 2013)

Oops..yes, I was assuming the sale would end at midnight CET, but I see they had mentioned ending it at 1800 hours for some reason. Oh well, probably didn't need it right now anyway.


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## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2013)

Ed @ Mon Nov 04 said:


> To be honest with all the libs these days I would get Lumina and not Sym2, assuming you own those other libs or plan to buy them. I dont have Lumina however, I just think it has things my other libs dont.



IMHO. If you have Symphobia 1, Symphobia 2 is a better complementing library than Lumina. One can add Lumina later if needed. 

Well, that's what I did, and I'm very happy with my choice. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Ed (Nov 4, 2013)

muziksculp @ Mon Nov 04 said:


> Ed @ Mon Nov 04 said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest with all the libs these days I would get Lumina and not Sym2, assuming you own those other libs or plan to buy them. I dont have Lumina however, I just think it has things my other libs dont.
> ...



Oh its still a good library, it depends on what you already have. I just say this from the perspective of someone who bought it when there were far less alternatives. I have loads of orchestra FX now, and I haven't even bought Tutti from Sonokinetic yet. Thats a big part of SYM2. Also the legato stuff was way more unique at the time. I also bought it before the Albions. So in terms of what I have, Lumina would be better. But for someone else, it may not be. I still think SYM1 is a library that still stands up as something that I'd want to have.


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 4, 2013)

I'm not sure how much I really need a complementing library, certainly in the case of S2. As Ed says, it all depends on how the user works with it and what other libraries they have.

S2 won't really give me any more usable multis it seems (which is my primary use of S1). The legatos do sound gorgeous and some of the combis would be my main reason to buy, but the limited ranges and dynamics somewhat offset this. Some of the fx and artics would be very handy (love those grace notes), but in all... it's just not a compelling enough proposition to me even at that sale price.

Lumina is a curious thing, there's so little info or first hand reports. It answers my multis problem with their use of Stories, which look more refined than the old multis. It also covers some new ground sonically, and some of it sounds great. I've not been as impressed with the comedy side of the library as the fantasy, but there's been very little to go on there so I might be judging it unfairly. If it has some extensive stuff in the Carl Stalling / Scott Bradley mould, that would be pretty compelling, but most of what I've heard sounds awfully similar to the lighter side of S1 - there's some great classic comedy stuff hidden in there. Then there's the unanswered questions about Lumina's legato instruments.

Have to say, Project Sam's reluctance to share more info or give us more detailed walkthroughs was a big factor in not buying. Wish they'd be a little more proactive on these boards.


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## ProjectSAM (Nov 5, 2013)

Hi all,

While it is true that we're not very active on this forum (not so much as in the past), we don't feel that we're reluctant. In our opinion, most of the questions asked in this thread are better answered by users than by the developer. It's difficult for us take an objective stand in a "should I buy or not" library discussion. Also, we believe this should be a user community above all. Developers shouldn't mingle too much.

We do realize that Lumina and S2 1.3 are not available on Try-Sound, which we dearly regret, but it is currently technically impossible. Also, it seems that although we're quite happy with Lumina sales, the amount of Lumina users in this forum is rather low. We don't exactly know why.

Guy Rowland, since you, more than anyone else on this forum, have shared a lot of thoughts about Lumina since its release, how about we provide you with a Lumina NFR copy in return for an in-depth review for the VI community?

Last but not least… YES, we are working on two smaller releases that will be out pretty soon!

Cheers,
The SAM Team
www.projectsam.com


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 5, 2013)

Good lord! ProjectSAM - that's astonishingly generous of you. You're in grave danger of rewarding a loudmouth, you realise.

Since I've said (on more than one occasion) that we could really do with a thorough walkthrough video of Lumina, I should assume that is my task. I've never done a video walkthrough before, so it might take me a week or two to sort out the technicalities (and find the time). I'll try and cover all the bases... I doubt I'll be rivaling Daniel James' crown for Best Walkthrough Video Producer, but I'll give it my best shot.

To the general point about forum involvement - yes, you're quite right that member contributions are invaluable (and I was specifically seeking user-feedback in some areas), but a little more factual info and feedback from the developer is always welcome, I'd say.


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## paulmatthew (Nov 5, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Good lord! ProjectSAM - that's astonishingly generous of you. You're in grave danger of rewarding a loudmouth, you realise.
> 
> Since I've said (on more than one occasion) that we could really do with a thorough walkthrough video of Lumina, I should assume that is my task. I've never done a video walkthrough before, so it might take me a week or two to sort out the technicalities (and find the time). I'll try and cover all the bases... I doubt I'll be rivaling Daniel James' crown for Best Walkthrough Video Producer, but I'll give it my best shot.
> 
> To the general point about forum involvement - yes, you're quite right that member contributions are invaluable (and I was specifically seeking user-feedback in some areas), but a little more factual info and feedback from the developer is always welcome, I'd say.



Well , that's one way to get a library Guy. :wink: Looking forward to seeing a Vi member do a walkthrough on Lumina. Congrats on getting the library and kudos to Project Sam for sending it your way.


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## ProjectSAM (Nov 5, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> You're in grave danger of rewarding a loudmouth, you realise.




You should have received an e-mail from us, Guy.

Looking forward to your findings!

Cheers,
The SAM Team
www.projectsam.com


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## tmm (Nov 5, 2013)

Wow, very generous. Now I wish I'd posted more re: Lumina  Looking forward to that review!


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## jleckie (Nov 5, 2013)

Very generous of you PS! I tip my hat to you gentlemen.


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## muziksculp (Nov 5, 2013)

ProjectSAM @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Last but not least… YES, we are working on two smaller releases that will be out pretty soon!
> ...



Hello ProjectSAM.

I will be looking forward to your two smaller releases ...Pretty Soon :D 

Could we be expecting a New, Big, and Exciting release in 2014 ? 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 6, 2013)

Link and serial number received safe and well, thanks Project Sam. Downloaded last night - a 40GB library in under an hour, including self-extraction and installation, which is amazing (I should say we have a great net connection here, just upgraded to 120meg). A couple of times the speed started to slow - a pause and restart seemed to give it an instant kick.

I'll be putting it through its paces in the coming week or so (and trying to get some screen-capture software that works on my system).


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## MA-Simon (Nov 6, 2013)

> I should say we have a great net connection here, just upgraded to 120meg


 ~o) Which is roughly about 100 times faster than mine.


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 6, 2013)

MA-Simon @ Wed Nov 06 said:


> > I should say we have a great net connection here, just upgraded to 120meg
> 
> 
> ~o) Which is roughly about 100 times faster than mine.



I feel your pain! If you're interested in Lumina, they do offer it as a USB dongle - might be worth considering.

I had a day's work cancelled this week, so part one of the review is up - thread is here http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3739682 .


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