# Some processing numbers regarding Zen 3



## Hendrixon (Oct 19, 2020)

Someone posted this on tweeter, not sure what is the source (couldn't care much to investigate).
Assuming its legit, it seems promising for us.


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## chimuelo (Oct 23, 2020)

This is even more promising as I promised myself no more 8 core CPUs after the 3700X. Great price when I got it and it loads almost twice as much as my Quad i7 4790K builds. But just doesn’t allow me the settings I want for my workflow.

So I was going to go with the next fast quad core CPU, like a Tiger Lake or AMD Cezanne (2021).

But reading more and more about the new CCX design where 8 cores really isn’t like an Intel or Matisse. All cores operate inside their own block. It’s cache is not shared with another block but unified, so I can probably afford to try an 8 core from AMD again.

Then I saw this single core performance bench with a 6 core AMD Vermeer.

I don’t think latency will be a problem anymore.







Can’t wait to see Scan Audio or anyone here run a new AMD using Vin’s test.

Intel needs a win. Their stock is dropping too so they’ve got more to worry about than their R & D budget.

Great days for us.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 24, 2020)

Not sure I understand why the number of cores is a factor.
Maybe you mean that the amd performance hole was happening exactly in the settings you want to use, so your intel 4 core performed there better then your amd 8 core?

Anyway, yup Zen 3 looks promising
Even though this is the end of AM4 I'm build a new system as my current intel system is even way older then yours


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## Macrawn (Oct 24, 2020)

Yeah, that 60 billionths of a second of extra chip latency was such a deal breaker lol. I think our brains have more latency than that. Hear the sound, process it, send message to your finger to press key, muscle presses key.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 24, 2020)

That cpu latency is meaningless if you just mix, cause when you mix, latency in general is not an issue.
It is an issue when you play instruments in real time, cause if you get too much or too frequent cache miss faults, your cpu latency will effect how many pops and clicks you'll get, and the only way to combat that is to use bigger buffer size.

See, sometimes those meaningless 60 billionths of a second can force you to use double the buffer size which double your latency over all.


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## Macrawn (Oct 24, 2020)

Are you saying that a zen 2 can't run a buffer of 32? How low of a buffer do you run? Are there other factors involved such as the audio interface which could generate latency exceeding what you get on the cpu chip? Seems like there are other factors as well when you are taking latency of that small of an amount. Even someone running VEP on another machine, good lord that latency between those machines has to far exceed a tiny amount of distance on a cpu chip.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 24, 2020)

You mix too many things up, things that are not even related...


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## Macrawn (Oct 24, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> You mix too many things up, things that are not even related...


How so? It's one system isn't it? You are only as fast as the part of the chain in the system with the lowest latency. You can't tell me that a VEP system running through a master and slave gpu isn't going to have more latency than a single chip zen 2 no matter how fast the gpu. Anyway it's all a moot point because the Zen 3 architecture is better.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 25, 2020)

We are talking about cpu execution latency, meaning how *efficient* a given cpu is in *a given system* for certain task... and you bring in network stack latency to VEP slaves. these are totally different things.
What about screen refresh rate latency? and midi protocol latency? and using headphones because speakers suffer from air wave latency?!............... what all that has to do with how efficient - or not - a cpu is?

The answer is _nothing_.

What we ARE talking here about is, for example, how a cpu will scale up the real time polyphony when going from say 64 sample buffer to 128.
As of now, an intel 109## cpu will scale that by 90% and an amd X3### (all of them apart from X3950) will scale by only 40%.
The X3950 will scale by 60%.

That's the "performance hole" in amd.
If you'll keep doubling the buffer size, the amd cpus will catch up to intel 109### only at 512 sample buffer.
And also not all of them, as the X3900 will still trail behind.


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## chimuelo (Oct 25, 2020)

I didn’t want to explain that myself, but concur because I use a system that requires a 64 sample buffer to run @ 48k so my Mutec Clock Generator and hardware effects, lighting are at the tightest sync.

My 3700X is a great CPU but 256 is it’s best timing which I can use for recording, not for real time performing. 

3900X/3950X no possible way to use those so I’m relieved I learned about the architectural inefficiencies on my cheap but awesome 3700X.

As said above the 5000 chips excite me because AMD knew about this and addressed it with a unified cache.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 25, 2020)

As a recording platform, $ for $, amd beats Intel.
Low buffer sizes is not needed, so the hole is bypassed, and you get more cores for the same cost so performance (number of effects and tracks) is higher.

p.s. at 64 samples the performance hole is still not evident, I assume because there's a bottle neck elsewhere, but at 128-256 samples that bottle neck opens and then amd's X3## fragmented design shows its weakness.

So far, on paper and early benchmarks, it seems they got it right with the X5##.


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## chimuelo (Oct 25, 2020)

Been researching all tech forums and was so confident a 5000 8 core would be enough I pre paid a specific board for rack mounted build.

Paid 425 in advance as they’re limited edition boards.
2 months later and still no CPU. At least I’m ready.

I’ll test a Vermeer for a while in an open air chassis/test bed.
But for my 1U a 5000 chip with on die GPU in 2021 will replace my 4790k’s.

Excited.


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## chimuelo (Oct 26, 2020)

Interesting how using the same single core test, the 5950X actually scaled up, not down with extra cores.
Even seems scaled up in multi too.

Competition usually causes price drops and not something new that destroys the other company.
AMD is just whooping Intel with these 5000 chips.

These 5000 chips if delivered before holiday shopping will obliterate current chips and maybe even prevent an expensive embarrassment like Rocket Lake due out at CES (virtual) 2021.


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## Scamper (Oct 26, 2020)

I'm pretty hyped for the Zen 3 series as well.
This year, I'm gonna get my big system upgrade and the good old i5 3570k will be retired. 

Initially, I was thinking to get an i7 10700k, because Intel always was the better choice for latency. It's great to see the Zen 3 coming in with those numbers and now it almost seems like a no brainer to go for them. 

In this case, I'm just not sure whether to prefer the 5800x having 8 cores and a single cache or the 5900x with 12 cores and a separated cache. Could be a small tradeoff between better latency and more headroom, right?


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## Pictus (Oct 26, 2020)

💓
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-9-59...enchmark-leaks-crushes-intel-core-i9-10980xe/


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## Hendrixon (Oct 26, 2020)

Scamper said:


> I'm pretty hyped for the Zen 3 series as well.
> This year, I'm gonna get my big system upgrade and the good old i5 3570k will be retired.
> 
> Initially, I was thinking to get an i7 10700k, because Intel always was the better choice for latency. It's great to see the Zen 3 coming in with those numbers and now it almost seems like a no brainer to go for them.
> ...



Its interesting, in the X3## family the X3900 has the best cost vs performance, meaning its not the best performer but $ for $ it gives the best performance.
I'm talking of course only in our little niche use of real time polyphony.
The funny thing is that its the best EVEN though its performance hole is the biggest
Now if I understand it well, in Zen 2 every CCX had one core disabled, so it had four CCXs with four L3 cache serving 3 cores each. 
In Zen 3 there are no CCXs, just two big CCDs each with a single L3 serving 8 cores. I don't know if we'll ever find out how they will make a 12 core from that setup, but I assume for symmetry they will disable 2 cores in each CCD.

Btw, they can easily make a 14 core cpu by disabling a single core in each CCD.
They will probably do that if they'll have too many failed CCDs with a single bad core


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## Hendrixon (Oct 26, 2020)

Pictus said:


> 💓
> https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-9-59...enchmark-leaks-crushes-intel-core-i9-10980xe/



I really hope that will translate to real time polyphony as well!!!


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## ComposerWannabe (Oct 26, 2020)

With these numbers, do you think a 5600x is a better buy for our purposes than a 3700x?

They will be around the same price. I'm planning on getting a 5600x as it is.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 26, 2020)

Honestly if someone is not chocked by an old pc (like my self) then there is no need to gamble.
Wait few weeks and all the real life performance numbers will be revealed. 
Remember those numbers here are synthetic benchmarks, if your goal is real time polyphony performance, it might not be the same...

It should be very good now, but who can guaranty that?  

In general I would advice to go with an 8 core since now it will be a single unified CCD, just like an Intel monolithic 8 core.


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## pixel (Oct 26, 2020)

Hmm I'm thinking about 3900x and I'm not sure if 5800x will be a good alternative, especially that price difference definitively will be higher (I expect 3900x to have price drop around BF). Then 5900x is way beyond my price target. I'm also not sure if 5800x would do much better for heavy CPU plugins usage but I may be completely wrong.


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## Scamper (Oct 26, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Its interesting, in the X3## family the X3900 has the best cost vs performance, meaning its not the best performer but $ for $ it gives the best performance.
> I'm talking of course only in our little niche use of real time polyphony.
> The funny thing is that its the best EVEN though its performance hole is the biggest



What's your source for the performance numbers of amd and intel for certain buffer sizes?


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## Hendrixon (Oct 26, 2020)

This article:
https://www.scanproaudio.info/2020/02/27/2020-q1-cpus-in-the-studio-overview/

I crunched all the numbers in excel from all sorts of angles, per buffer size, per polyphony, per dollar, per scaling performance etc.


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## Scamper (Oct 26, 2020)

I still find it odd though, that while AMD is relatively weaker to their intel counterparts at higher buffer sizes, that they get actually better at the lower buffer size of 64 samples.

Well, I just hope the Zen 3 series won't be sold out for the rest of the year.


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## chimuelo (Oct 26, 2020)

ComposerWannabe said:


> With these numbers, do you think a 5600x is a better buy for our purposes than a 3700x?
> 
> They will be around the same price. I'm planning on getting a 5600x as it is.



😘Most definitely it will.
My i7 4790k is still fine for live work, better than the 3700X, so for me it’s polyphony/timings/low latency, all usually associated with single core performance.
But if single core performance scales up with additional cores, screw the quads, Hex’a’s. Time for killer Octa core.

But the 5600X looks like a great deal. 220 is the lowest a I’ve heard, 30) is no problem.
I’m use to Intel’s.

My 1GHz Coppermine was 1,000 bucks in 1999/2000.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 26, 2020)

Scamper said:


> I still find it odd though, that while AMD is relatively weaker to their intel counterparts at higher buffer sizes, that they get actually better at the lower buffer size of 64 samples.
> 
> Well, I just hope the Zen 3 series won't be sold out for the rest of the year.



I think that when using low buffer size of 64 samples and bellow, there is a bottle neck there at system level (for example could be interface driver or memory i/o controller) that simply choke the performance before either AMD or INTEL cpus can breath. while that happens the cpu is simply not taxed. its like a limiter.

At 128 samples and above that bottle neck probably opens, now the cpus start to work hard and voila we suddenly see the AMDs chock because of their execution latency  

And at 512 samples that bottle neck of AMD also opens cause now the timings are relaxed, thus AMD almost match Intel's performance. but for us this is pointless, because you can't really play real time at 512 anyway


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## Pictus (Oct 27, 2020)

ComposerWannabe said:


> With these numbers, do you think a 5600x is a better buy for our purposes than a 3700x?


Looks like it will be better...


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## chimuelo (Oct 27, 2020)

But this is even better news for AMD.









AMD Agrees to Buy Xilinx for $35 Billion in Latest Effort to Take on Rival Intel. Its Stock Is Dropping.


The deal arrives amid a wave of consolidation in the chip sector.




www.barrons.com





I have been using Analog Devices SHARC DSP chips on my Audio/MIDI interfaces since 2005.
All of my Strymons FX Units use them, UAD, Solaris synthesizer, etc.

But these Xilinx Spartan chips impress me because they need no cooling at all, and are so powerful this programmer was able to add ROMpler based sounds covering so much more than every Hammond, Wersi, Vox or Farfisa Organ ever made.






Really impressive programming capabilities.
I can do Keith Emerson, John Lord, Uriah Heep, Booker T, Earl Grant, etc.
The Rotary Cabinet by itself has 27 tweakable parameters and smokes my Ventillator Pedals by Neo.

AMD wants be the gamer King, which means Intel better quit selling off parts of their holdings. Sold their Memory section, not Optane.

Serious wars ahead.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 27, 2020)

Check this thing!






And see where the previous BEST single thread AMD cpu was


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## chimuelo (Oct 27, 2020)

My 8086k @ 5GHz smokes most of the above, but it’s hotter than a whore house on dollar day...


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## Hendrixon (Oct 27, 2020)

HA! I'm still on a pc that started life in 2009!
First cpu was first gen i7 4 core 920 with 12GB ram, all metal plate disks of course.
Later moved to 950 and lastly got a 6 core Xeon from work that I had a free hand to test from a box.
Found one that managed to clock at almost 4.85Ghz with just air cool (noctua) but wasn't totally stable under stress tests, but since then (about 6 years?) it works fine at 4.7Ghz.

I'm still on the original Asus motherboard from 2009, it has triple channel memory (current cpus of 2020, 109## and X3### and X5### are just dual channel) and it could take up to 24GB (6x4GB). the funny thing is years later it was found out that the memory controller was on the cpu and not on the mother board, and it turned out my Xeon can actually support 8GB sticks and if they are ECC it can support 16GB sticks! on my consumer 2009 motherbaord
Anyway I filled the board with non ECC 8GB sticks. for some reason I don't get all 64GB but I do get 48GB (don't remember what was the issue).

You know what's insane?
This board came with this "new interface" called USB3!!!!!! in 2009!!!! 5GBbit!!!!
AMD Zen 2 (and probably Zen 3) today in 2020 support USB up to 10Gbit (USB 3.2 Gen 2)
This is so fucked up...

Anyway, with that Xeon and memory and all SSD and Nvme, my 2009 pc can do pretty much everything I need (programming, databases, rendering, HFT, audio). the only weakness is latency at very high polyphony, since in this old architecture all data lanes are going thru the chipset.
And it also doesn't have modern cpu instruction sets which starts to give me trouble with few new softwares.

Man I love that pc, it even runs on the original power supply lol


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## colony nofi (Oct 27, 2020)

More numbers coming thru.
Unconfirmed - but look at the single core results. 5950X could be the new daw beast - and have multi-core perf in spades for those who use it too! 
I personally find it confusing that the single core results of the 5950X best the 5800X by a fair bit, even though it gives up 300mhtz clock...









AMD Ryzen 7 5800X and Ryzen 9 5950X CPU-Z scores leaked - VideoCardz.com


Alleged benchmark scores of AMD Ryzen 9 and Ryzen 7 processors based on Zen3 architecture have been leaked. AMD Ryzen 9 5950X scores 690 points in single-threaded CPU-Z benchmark The results have appeared simultaneously at two different forums. AMD flagship Ryzen 9 5950X, which is a 16-core and...




videocardz.com


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## Hendrixon (Oct 28, 2020)

5950 boosts to 4.9GHz
5800 boosts to 4.7GHz


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## chimuelo (Oct 28, 2020)

All core boost is what I want to see, but in all honesty single core looks so good I‘ll turn off boost and run cool w/ 64 samples @48k/2.4msec. duplexxed.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 28, 2020)

Yup it would be interesting to see if AMD implemented a more advanced boost algo, such as boost 2 or 3 busy cores if needed, not just 1 core or nothing.
Soon we'll know everything.

Btw I saw something weird, someone benchmarked a 5950 on a hacintosh and it was clocked at 6Ghz all cores!
I can only assume he used extreme cooling (nitro or co2), still, it gives hope


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## colony nofi (Oct 28, 2020)

I have a very good use case for a 5950X machine at my studios... I'm going to start planning out the build and hopefully the parts I want will be easy enough to come by jan/feb 2021 (Australia)

We have had 10940 on loan which handles the large immersive mix sessions really well - but I'd love to build something that can double for composition in that world. The "do it all" machine... ha! Everything points to this being the case.


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## chimuelo (Oct 28, 2020)

colony nofi said:


> I have a very good use case for a 5950X machine at my studios... I'm going to start planning out the build and hopefully the parts I want will be easy enough to come by jan/feb 2021 (Australia)
> 
> We have had 10940 on loan which handles the large immersive mix sessions really well - but I'd love to build something that can double for composition in that world. The "do it all" machine... ha! Everything points to this being the case.



It really does point to an all in 1 machine now.

I’ve always dropped coin for gear, and as long as I can fit it in a 1U chassis I’ll get 128GB/16 Core Monster.

I tried the Master/Slave VEPro with 4 x PCs and it was gloriously painful.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 28, 2020)

I'm also aiming for the 5950X, I just hope there won't be a supply issue...


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## Hendrixon (Oct 28, 2020)

Btw, for professional use? I would wait for the next Zen 3 threadripper.
Now with that you will be able to build an all in 1 machine


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## colony nofi (Oct 28, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> It really does point to an all in 1 machine now.
> 
> I’ve always dropped coin for gear, and as long as I can fit it in a 1U chassis I’ll get 128GB/16 Core Monster.
> 
> I tried the Master/Slave VEPro with 4 x PCs and it was gloriously painful.



Back in 2011 I used to travel around with 4 x 2011 Mac Minis...that was quite the headache to keep running well / setup quick etc. Today I have one of them left beside me handling email / jitsi duties. I'm so so happy to be working with single machines these days. For a long while a 2013 trashcan MP (with 128GB Ram) handled things...er...ok - but these days it just doesn't fit the bill. (It really was awesome in a power/size ratio, and handled being thrown in luggage or slung on my shoulder for well over a hundred flights. Though I can totally see the point for you for going 1RU! I personally need quiet + portable, and I've never got performance + quiet in 1 or 2 RU cases. 

Now, mini ITX might be an interesting way to go.... there's some damn interesting cases around these days allowing very minimal fan builds. Some day I'll detail a small and silent server (no moving parts at all) that I'm building. But I digress. Thats not in the same ballpark powerwise as we are talking for these kinds of workstations.)


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## colony nofi (Oct 28, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Btw, for professional use? I would wait for the next Zen 3 threadripper.
> Now with that you will be able to build an all in 1 machine


It has crossed my mind. I've heard conflicting whispers regarding single-core perf on the zen3 threadrippers. Our tests of zen2 TR (3970) didn't give us any gains over 10940 - many less cores but single core perf still was required even when running 24 channel reverbs and spatialisation software. We try compose / work on sound design alongside the immersive mixing rather than the traditional workflow of compose / edit / mix in 3 different sessions. It is possible now. Maybe Zen3 TR will be our new beast. The other trouble is - am I patient enough (or will projects come down the pipeline meaning we need to lease or build right now...)

EDIT : Quick phone call and "late Feb/Early March" was the message. How does that line up with other folks info? Still on TR40. But for an audio workstaton, that's not a problem. Will prob be last TR on that platform. Sounds like 16 core base might not happen... be 24, 32, & 64 core designs again to start. I was told to look out for big improvements for applications like DAW's though (which would make some sense given what Zen3 has seemingly achieved.). All off the record but from folk who have been bang on before with upcoming silicon info.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 28, 2020)

The big plus of TR is the pcie lanes, you get a ton of those.
True it still needs to be seen how Zen 3 will be implemented on a TR die.

The interesting thing, at least with 5###x is that the cpu with the best boost is actually the one with the most cores. a bit weird... but I'm not complaining


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## chimuelo (Oct 29, 2020)

Found a nice 2U in case I want to go with Vermeer 5000, instead of waiting for Cezanne.
This Smart Access technology where aGPU/discrete solution is optimized for use with 5000 Series chips might convince me.

A pair of Ribbon extenders, a 1X and 16X mounting cards Horizontally means a mean beast of a PC.

Using Maschine software and a Maschine + hardware / standalone sequencer with this is looking to be my new workflow.


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## ComposerWannabe (Nov 1, 2020)

I feel like 5600x will be open to overclocking as well with the core frequencies standing at 4.6.

AMD is trying to sell higher counterparts with lower clocked 5600x and 5700x being absent.


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## Manaberry (Nov 1, 2020)

Hi guys,

I'm running a 10980XE and I thought it would be useful to share a Geekbench 5 here to compare with as my machine is tailored for music production.





__





System manufacturer System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for a System manufacturer System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-10980XE processor.



browser.geekbench.com





Those new Ryzen looks very promising!


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## Hendrixon (Nov 1, 2020)

As of what we have today physically, your XE, putting price aside, is the best cpu for real time polyphony. 

We'll have to see how the new 5###X will perform. 
https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/amd-ryzen-9-3950x

Are those comparable numbers to your test?


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## Hendrixon (Nov 1, 2020)

This seem the top 5950X single thread:
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4380343

And check this XE over all numbers...
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4411315


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## Hendrixon (Nov 1, 2020)

The thing with those general bench tests is that they usually look on how the cpu crunch numbers, like letting it do arithmetic tasks. that's very relevant to database tasks and games, but in audio we also stress the cpu and memory controllers with many parallel data streams. if that i/o stress is too much for the surrounding controllers and internal cpu execution structure... then the number crunching aspect is meaningless.


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## Manaberry (Nov 1, 2020)

Nothing best than a good old polyphony test indeed!


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## thevisi0nary (Nov 1, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> As a recording platform, $ for $, amd beats Intel.



I am mondo excited for Zen 3 but price is not one of the reasons, and it is an enduring myth that an AMD system is cheaper than Intel. Which is the opposite if you are building anything but a budget PC.

1. You need a dedicated GPU. If you only use your computer for music, any igpu on the intel chips will push a high resolution monitor. Zen has no igpu.

2.You need fast and expensive ram to take advantage of the full performance potential of Zen chips. Getting near 3600mhz with tight timings gets particularly expensive going past 32gb.

These aren’t a big deal, but you aren’t saving money going with AMD. Core for Core the _CPU’s _were less expensive, but overall the systems are the same price or more expensive. Hell, intel is actually becoming the budget option, at least in the comet lake line.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 1, 2020)

Yea system for system its a different story, I should see how much an 10980XE system will compare to same level 5950X system.

As of now, in Israel (where I live) there is one big online vendor that already offers AMD Zen 3 for pre orders. the amazing thing is that the price is almost like what the 3950X sells now... I expected much higher price
I'm not complaining, just confused because its a new product that just lunched AND it had a price increase for MSRP!


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## thevisi0nary (Nov 1, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Yea system for system its a different story, I should see how much an 10980XE system will compare to same level 5950X system.
> 
> As of now, in Israel (where I live) there is one big online vendor that already offers AMD Zen 3 for pre orders. the amazing thing is that the price is almost like what the 3950X sells now... I expected much higher price
> I'm not complaining, just confused because its a new product that just lunched AND it had a price increase for MSRP!



The launch price for Zen 3 chips are only $50 more than the launch price for Zen 2, people were making it out to be this huge price hike. Price increases suck but as a business AMD wants to be seen as a direct competitor and not a "sensible alternative" so to speak.

10980xe at its current price will be a more expensive system (pricy motherboards and has no igpu). Right now this chip makes little sense from a performance perspective compared to the 5950x, except for someone who is only comfortable with intel, or if you need more than 128gb of ram and a ton of pcie. Obviously we need to wait for audio benchmarks, but based on all current info the 5950x will perform far better, and is $200 cheaper.


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## Technostica (Nov 1, 2020)

thevisi0nary said:


> The launch price for Zen 3 chips are only $50 more than the launch price for Zen 2, people were making it out to be this huge price hike.


I think the issue is that previously at launch AMD released a wider range of SKUs.
Many people were buying the cheaper SKUs and over-clocking them and saving money.
This time around each SKU is about $50 more, plus they aren't launching with the cheaper SKUs so the overall price increase is more like $100 as you have to buy a higher tier SKU.
For people on a tight budget the entry level price increase is up to 50%, hence the grumbling.
For those looking at the 12 or 16 core the increase is much smaller.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 1, 2020)

I just looked on components if I was going for the top intel (10980XE) compared to 5950X.
Prices are local and include VAT, converted to $US for readers convenience.


Motherbaord + case + PSU:
Same level components will be the same price.


Memory - 128GB:
2666MHz/$745
3200MHz/$800
3600MHz/$970

** True that with AMD you need to have as close to a 1:1:1 ratio for best performance, and if you go lower the over all performance will suffer more then just the lower mem clock it self. also we know going higher will not benefit you cause the broken ratio will give you less performance.
With Intel it seems you CAN use lower MHz mem, but going higher does give bandwidth performance boost. for example with 10980XE clocking a 3200 mem to 3800 gave a bandwidth boost of 14%, so going from say 2666 to 3600 would roughly give the same boost percent.
Since we are building a performance pc, I would use the same 3600 mem in both Intel and AMD.
Bottom line, for memory the cost will also be the same.


CPU:
10980XE: $1285
5950X: $1025

** Here AMD will be $260 cheaper.


GPU:
I didn't check the 2066 motherboards, but lets assume all Intel boards have an IGP.
I'm using three 1440 screens, I don't know how well an IGP will perform. also since it uses the system ram, that's an extra i/o on the mem controller.
Further more, I don't think you'll need to spend $260 to get a GPU that will perform like the IGP.


Conclusion?
A 5950X will be cheaper than a comparable 10980XE.
But if $200-$250 is what will drive you to choose a system in this level, it means its too expensive for you.


So, what are the cons/pros between those system?
Here are a few thoughts all from our little point of view:

1.
10980XE support 256GB!!! and it has a quad memory controller!!!
5950X is 128GB and dual memory controller.
BIG win for the Intel.

2.
10980XE has 48 pcie 3.0 lanes
5950X has 24 pcie 4.0 lanes
Don't know how to call this... a draw?
The Intel can have many nvme drives direct to cpu, but they are limited to pcie 3.0 speeds.
The AMD can support up to three drives direct to the cpu, but they are pcie 4.0 speeds.
In the next few months 4.0 drives will have updated controllers that will take advantage of that speed.
For our needs the AMD with 4.0 will be more usable now and in the future, so its an AMD win after all.

3.
10980XE interlink/DMI is 4 pcie 3.0 lanes
5950X has 4 pcie 4.0 lanes
That's a HUGE win for AMD.

4.
10980XE power consumption and heat are a big issue... multi thread load uses 324W
5950X promised to be like previous, which means 220W at multi thread load.
This means you need to dissipate more heat on the Intel, so more expense on cooling.

--------------------------------

So, lets sum this up:
If I disregard the performance hole of Zen 2 that was found in the Dawbench VI tests, and compare the 10980XE and 3950X at 64 and 512 samples, the Intel XE's polyphony was just 3.9% better in both 64 and 512 tests, which means the 5950X should be a behemoth of a cpu for real time polyphony.
To build a 10980XE system today is a bad investment money wise.


----------



## Andrew Aversa (Nov 2, 2020)

256gb RAM seems really unnecessary. If you are using NVME drives then you should have no issue doing some disk streaming as part of your template.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 2, 2020)

Someone just wrote he can't build a big template with Berlin on a 64GB system.
He "hopes" his new 128GB one will be able to do it


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## colony nofi (Nov 2, 2020)

zircon_st said:


> 256gb RAM seems really unnecessary. If you are using NVME drives then you should have no issue doing some disk streaming as part of your template.


There are definitely situations where >128GB ram is required with some workflows. My oldish composition rig tops out at 128 and I've reached that limit a number of times - particularly when running many different mic channels at once (which can be very useful when doing immersive mixing into large channel count systems)

While I don't run massive "everything loaded ready to go" templates, I'd imagine that folk here could easily max out 128GB for that style of working as well. Even just small "get ready to work on this project" templates on my system are usually between 32 and 48GB, and they don't contain *that* many tracks. Perhaps 100 or so.

We are also a small "facility" so need easy ways of repurposing suites quickly, so we just use blackmagic SSD caddies for sample drives / libraries etc. Though the perf difference to nmve we have found to be negligible for our use cases. My libs fit over 2 x 4TB SSD's - and am considering going with 1 x 8TB in the future if travel for work again picks up (its SO much easier to just take one drive than two when shifting to a laptop or even a portable desktop rig... currently I have all my "need 90% of the time" libs on a Glyph 4TB drive, but its getting frustrating needing to administer that vs all the libs that I use in the studio etc etc. So many considerations.....

Different horses for different courses. While I can see a 5950X system being awesome, I'm personally eeking out another half year or so on my current mac rig to see TR zen 3 results just so I can run 256GB ram.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 2, 2020)

Btw, those that wait for a comeback replay to Zen 3 from Intel, I'm not sure it would be exciting.
11th gen Intel desktops will see daylight maybe around [email protected]?
Cores will be based on the 10nm design, the one they failed manufacturing, so they will implement that same core design yet again on the old 14nm process.
Intel claim the new core design will provide "double digits IPC increase" (I wonder where we heard that before lol), but what they don't tell you is that since the new cores were designed for 10nm, they are more dense, so implementing them on a 14nm process means the cores will be physically bigger, much bigger... which will lead to LESS cores when compared to 10th gen.

Intel will need to sell those really cheap to move them because they won't compete with Zen 3 for performance. its like 11th gen lost 6 months before it even launched.
Unbelievable.


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## Pictus (Nov 4, 2020)




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## ProfoundSilence (Nov 4, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Someone just wrote he can't build a big template with Berlin on a 64GB system.
> He "hopes" his new 128GB one will be able to do it


as a 128gb berlin user, I plan on trying to upgrade to higher than 256 eventually
ohh what I would do if I didn't have to worry about ram XD

Some people just use 1 tree mic and slap some verb on it - but I just cant - I need atleast 2 mics.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 4, 2020)

Your current platform support 256?

Since I'm in dire need of a new pc I'm building one now with a 5950X.
Sure it will be a nice little beast, but here are the things I'm not super thrilled about the current plarform:
* 128GB max
* Only 24 cpu pcie lanes (4 to chipset, 4 to m.2 drive, 16 to slots).
* USB 10Gbit (this is a crime really, Gen 3 should had support for 20Gbit)

I'm not considering the next Gen 3 TR cause even this AM4 pc will cost me dearly (like $4k).


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## Technostica (Nov 4, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Since I'm in dire need of a new pc I'm building one now with a 5950X.
> Sure it will be a nice little beast, but here are the things I'm not super thrilled about the current plarform:
> * 128GB max
> * Only 24 cpu pcie lanes (4 to chipset, 4 to m.2 drive, 16 to slots).
> * USB 10Gbit (this is a crime really, Gen 3 should had support for 20Gbit)



For a mainstream desktop platform those figures are fine.
When there are HEDT and Workstation classes above mainstream desktop there's no need to highly specify desktop platforms.
Gen 3 does support 20Gbs but you need the right controller.
If you really want that you can buy a PCIe 3.0 x4 controller card.
As long as you can split the 16x 4.0 lanes that usually go to GPU slot you can stick the controller in the second slot.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 4, 2020)

For mainstream? sure its enough, but then a platform that support a highly complex 16 core cpu is not really "mainstream".

You can buy a controller for anything, I have a GPS controller that keeps a clock in microseconds for one of my systems (not audio related). I'm talking about on die native support for something that by now should be common. I have a motherboard from 2009 that support [email protected] 2009!

Btw, since Zen 4 will support [email protected] on die, would it make the Ryzen 6800x an HEDT? or workstation class?


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## Hendrixon (Nov 4, 2020)

I'll let you guys look on this picture, lets see what you think  
Later I say what it is...
Sorry for the quality, its a print screen from a video.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 4, 2020)

And... $800+VAT just left my pocket


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## Andrew Aversa (Nov 4, 2020)

Fair enough re: 256gb, it's just not how I work I suppose. I have done large orchestral / hybrid projects but I don't usually like huge mic mixes or keeping 100+ tracks loaded and ready to go. Like Daniel James I tend to load things as I go, and as I need them, rather than having stuff sitting around.


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## Scamper (Nov 4, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> And... $800+VAT just left my pocket



Are some shops already selling before launch?
I'm trying to get a 5900X tomorrow, so I'm excited to get into some DAW Benchmarks within the year to compare the systems.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 4, 2020)

There is one online shop in Israel that showed on their site all the 5000 cpus for pre order for more then a week now.
I didn't check with them when will the delivery be cause my nephew (who works in the retail field) is helping me source all the parts direct from the importers. but earlier today I couldn't wait so I called that online shop, asked when I'll get a 5950X if I'll put an order with them right now? the guy's answer was:
"Where were you? the first batch will be here tomorrow, but its mostly sold to pre orders"
He checked and not all sold, but all 5950X did.
He said next batch should get there in about 10 days so if I want to secure mine I should order "now".

That's when I called my nephew and told him "your favorite and not very mature uncle is sick and needs that cpu now!"


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## Technostica (Nov 4, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> For mainstream? sure its enough, but then a platform that support a highly complex 16 core cpu is not really "mainstream".


It also supports quad core APUs and has cut down features as you already stated. 
HEDT goes up to 64C and workstation to 128C so 16C is child's play. 
We had mainstream quad cores around 13 years ago so 16C in 2020 doesn't seem a big deal.


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## Scamper (Nov 4, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> That's when I called my nephew and told him "your favorite and not very mature uncle is sick and needs that cpu now!"



And again, it pays off to have the right connections, when you need them. I'm hoping tomorrow the stock will not melt away too quickly to grab one.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 4, 2020)

Technostica said:


> We had mainstream quad cores around 13 years ago so 16C in 2020 doesn't seem a big deal.



If it wasn't for Lisa Su it would still have been a big deal in 2020, if it had been at all for desktop/workstation. Intel were happy to keep progressing nothing and they kept at it until barely 3 years ago. now they pay the price and I'm happy my money won't go to them 

Btw, these 64 and 128 core chips are purpose built, and low latency is not their forte.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 4, 2020)

Scamper said:


> And again, it pays off to have the right connections, when you need them. I'm hoping tomorrow the stock will not melt away too quickly to grab one.



Hey I nurtured that little pos, he owes me lol


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## Technostica (Nov 4, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> If it wasn't for Lisa Su it would still have been a big deal in 2020, if it had been at all for desktop/workstation. Intel were happy to keep progressing nothing and they kept at it until barely 3 years ago.


There was no competition for about ten years due to AMD being asleep at the wheel so the market stagnated. 
So the lack of progress on the desktop was down to both Intel and AMD. 
It's a good job that AMD woke up from their coma otherwise that's all we'd have would be 4 year old Intel architectures on 4 year old processes. 
Jim Keller usually gets a lot of credit for the turn around at AMD also. But Lisa is a rockstar.


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## Technostica (Nov 4, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Btw, these 64 and 128 core chips are purpose built, and low latency is not their forte.


No shit!  
They don't give a damn about DAWs as these are aimed and priced for data centres mainly. 
At least AMD dropped NUMA after the first generation Threadripper which was a real drag on performance.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 4, 2020)

> HEDT goes up to 64C and workstation to 128C





> these are aimed and priced for data centres mainly.



I'm confused


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## Technostica (Nov 4, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> I'm confused


The key word is mainly but they do also downscale the designs for workstation and HEDT. 
AMD have just agreed to buy Xilinx for 35 Billion dollars and that is to extend their reach into the datacentre market.


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## Jay Panikkar (Nov 4, 2020)

The desktop segment has never used high quality silicon. All non-server segment products are created from binning down leftover silicon that fail server standards.

Data centres will always be first base for Intel and AMD. That's where the big margins are. EPYC gets the best silicon, followed by Threadripper and then the lowest quality silicon trickles down to the desktop segment.



Hendrixon said:


> If it wasn't for Lisa Su it would still have been a big deal in 2020, if it had been at all for desktop/workstation. Intel were happy to keep progressing nothing and they kept at it until barely 3 years ago. now they pay the price and I'm happy my money won't go to them



Dr. Lisa Su is awesome. She's showing the industry how it's done. This is what happens when you have an actual engineer running a product company.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 5, 2020)

Its certainly true with Intel since they produce their own wafers.
Today with AMD you have TSMC that does most of the leg work, and TSMC also provide manufacturing to other very big clients. I don't think AMD have the means and luxury to do what Intel can at the wafer level. they set a QA standard that TSMC need to reach and that's it.
It also seems that TSMC's yields are so high now that binning at wafer is less needed.
With Intel it was known that wafer center goes to xeons and ultra high end (read over priced) desktops, and the rest to, well, the rest lol

Still, even Intel had times when yields were super high.
I don't know who here remembers the celerons that could overclock *+50%* at stock voltage while using the cheapest coolers lol
And these were celerons, the cheapest and most low level cpus from Intel 
Btw it wasn't common knowledge but celerons did support multi cpu (they weren't locked... yet) and I had such a system, with dual 300MHz celerons overclocked to 450MHz. I'm sure that with good cooling I could reach 1GHz at times when 400-500 was like high end numbers.
But back then we didn't have Noctuas or Coolermasters lol

Binning does happen after component production, where you can test them before assembly.
Its enough to see with Gen 3 that the chip with the highest boost is actually the 5950X, which is counter intuitive because its the cpu with the most cores.
This can only mean that AMD can and does bin the chiplets.
Good times


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## Jay Panikkar (Nov 5, 2020)

Here we go, bois!


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## Hendrixon (Nov 5, 2020)

So, who is buying what?
Just cpu upgrade? whole new build?


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## Scamper (Nov 5, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Just cpu upgrade? whole new build?



As old as my PC is, it's gonna be a proper full build and I'm starting to get giddy.

Ryzen 5900X + MSI B550M Mortar Board
2x16GB DDR4-3600 Corsair Vengeance LPX
1TB M.2 SSD Samsung 970 Evo
2x2TB SATA SSD Crucial MX500
mATX Case: Fractal Design Define Mini C
...and an ASUS TUF RTX 3080 to work Cubase at max fps

I would imagine you're also upgrading more than the CPU, if you're system is quite old?


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## Hendrixon (Nov 5, 2020)

I have few systems for different things, but my dedicated audio pc is based on a build that started life in 2009!
It of course got upgraded a lot thru the years, and can still do a lot, but the base technology is pretty old and once I got into those damn VIs it was game over, I had to get a fast new modern pc.

Here is my parts list. it has a lot of Asus in it simply cause my nephew can get them with a discount:

5950X
Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero (new board, fanless chipset cooling, should be in stores soon)
Asus Hyper M.2 x16 Gen 4 Card
Asus ROG Strix Radeon RX 5500 XT 8GB
Asus ROG Strix 750W 80+ Gold
Noctua nh-d15 (I have that exact cooler in my audio pc since 2009! no issue in 11 years!!!)
128GB 3600MHz Corsair Vengeance LPX (the only low profile memory I found locally)
Some Asus case (still need to choose which)
Still not decided which nvme drives, but will add 2 drives (another 2 will come from the old pc)

So far I got the cpu lol
The motherboard was just launched, its expected to be here in 2-3 weeks so I have time to collect the rest of the parts.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 5, 2020)

Btw, apart from the noctua cooler, my audio pc uses a coolermaster case (HAF) that has 3 huge fans in it, also no issue in 11 years. and it has a 650W psu from Corsair, also works for 11 straight years.


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## Scamper (Nov 5, 2020)

That'll do.
I'm still not sure about the cpu cooler. The NH-D15 always seems to be the top notch recommendation, but I'll try to get something smaller, even if it is slightly worse at cooling.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 5, 2020)

Scamper said:


> ...and an ASUS TUF RTX 3080 to work Cubase at max fps



Sorry... but WTF
Are you serious?!


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## R. Soul (Nov 5, 2020)

Scamper said:


> That'll do.
> I'm still not sure about the cpu cooler. The NH-D15 always seems to be the top notch recommendation, but I'll try to get something smaller, even if it is slightly worse at cooling.


I'm planning to get the NH-D15S. It's thinner, as it has one less fan, but doesn't obstruct the top PCI-E slot like it's bigger brother does.


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## Pictus (Nov 5, 2020)

Scamper said:


> That'll do.
> I'm still not sure about the cpu cooler. The NH-D15 always seems to be the top notch recommendation, but I'll try to get something smaller, even if it is slightly worse at cooling.


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## Jay Panikkar (Nov 5, 2020)

New processors better than expected, well over 40% gains in some workloads without an increase in power consumption. I don't think I'll be upgrading my 3900X, though; my setup currently works without any issues and it still has performance headroom left. But I'm very interested in seeing some Threadripper 5000 numbers for video and graphics render workloads.

Hopefully, Intel keeps up the pressure when they release their new line-up. I prefer corporations poaching each other instead of screwing over consumers. 



Scamper said:


> I'm still not sure about the cpu cooler. The NH-D15 always seems to be the top notch recommendation, but I'll try to get something smaller, even if it is slightly worse at cooling.



The Noctua D15 is a large cooler. It's unwieldy and doesn't fit in many cases. I had to return it and went with the Noctua U14 instead.



Scamper said:


> ...and an ASUS TUF RTX 3080 to work Cubase at max fps



That's right. I like Cubase and Counter Strike running at 700 fps.


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## ProfoundSilence (Nov 5, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Your current platform support 256?
> 
> Since I'm in dire need of a new pc I'm building one now with a 5950X.
> Sure it will be a nice little beast, but here are the things I'm not super thrilled about the current plarform:
> ...


I'm using a 5960x(yes, the i7) and x99 supports 128, and i think it's possible to get 256gb going but it would have to be ecc, and might not want to play nice with the 5960x. 

It's easier to just wait for me, then upgrade to a 256 or 512 gb machine down the line in theory Drives will be cheaper and better too.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 5, 2020)

Noctua NH-14A should be almost similar performance as their D15, but way smaller


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## Scamper (Nov 6, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Sorry... but WTF
> Are you serious?!


Yes for the RTX, but of course, unless ray tracing is coming to Cubase, I'll have other ways to use it. 

After checking a couple of Noctua variants, the D14 and U14S do seem quite nice. Still relatively big and tall, but apparently, if you're going smaller than that, you're losing a bunch of air flow.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 7, 2020)

I'm also not sure now on the cooler.
Saw a bunch of videos and thinking maybe an AIO will be better? so now which??
Since the mobo supposed to be here in 2-3 weeks I have time... to change my mind 17 times
One thing is for sure, never in my life have I spent so much time choosing a case
Who ever thought on benchmarking cases for airflow and temp?!


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## Scamper (Nov 7, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Saw a bunch of videos and thinking maybe an AIO will be better? so now which??



From all that I could gather, while AIO looks cleaner and doesn't take as much space, it isn't much better in cooling performance than a proper air cooler like the NH-D15. Air coolers generally seem to be more reliable, cheaper and quieter and at least for my needs, that's the better choice.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 7, 2020)

It seems if you match them to the same noise level, good AIO are like 5 degrees Celsius better.
If you let them work without limit, the Noctua has a very low noise. with AIO some are VERY noisy but there are some that are not far from the Noctua.
And sure, price is also a factor...

Where are the good old days when a case was the same grey box and the VGA was either a Cirrus Logic with 0.5MB mem or a Cirrus Logic with 1.0MB mem lol
I remember my bother built a pc and he bought a card called Tseng or Tzeng, which had 2MB on it!
I asked him why he needs such a monster card? and he said "bro I need this for rendering!"


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## Hendrixon (Nov 7, 2020)

Regarding AIO and Air, the main difference seems to be the "soak" ability.
Meaning how much time it takes the cooler to reach a steady state, lets say from 30C idle to 50C load.
Good Air coolers do that in like 90 seconds and AIO can hold up to 220-250 seconds in average.
What it means is that AIO can handle short period of load much better. of course if you render a 3D scene or a huge video file that takes 10 minutes or a full day, this difference is meaningless.


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## Pictus (Nov 7, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> I'm also not sure now on the cooler.
> Saw a bunch of videos and thinking maybe an AIO will be better? so now which??
> Since the mobo supposed to be here in 2-3 weeks I have time... to change my mind 17 times
> One thing is for sure, never in my life have I spent so much time choosing a case
> Who ever thought on benchmarking cases for airflow and temp?!



AIO is less durable than AIR coolers...
Anyway, if you go AIO, go for a BIG one...








With a BIG case like Fractal Define 7 XL








Define 7 XL


The Define 7 XL sets a new standard for what you should expect from a full tower case in terms of modularity, flexibility and ease of use.




www.fractal-design.com





BTW, Tseng Labs ET4000 was the *best* of that time!
Had the fastest screen redraw.








Tseng Labs ET4000 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Hendrixon (Nov 7, 2020)

LOL that's the card!
Man that Wiki thru me back with names like Hercules and Diamond  
When I line my life with the technology changes over time, it makes me feel damn old...


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## pixel (Nov 7, 2020)

AIO can be quiet? From my ultra quick research it seems that all of them very loud around 30-36dBA. While good air cooler can be around 20dBA.
But like I said my "research" was very short and quickly makes me lost interest in AIO.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 7, 2020)

I've seen many youtube vids and don't remember names.
I remember at least one AIO that had like 46db when a noctua was like 42db.
Sure there were 50 and 60db ones too

** Edit: I think those were db readings above room noise from 20cm **

I look at it this way, if you get a top cooler and a case with superb air flow, where each can contribute like -5C, that adds up. its at least worth to take that into account, mostly cause these cpus constantly change their clock based on temp.


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## pixel (Nov 7, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Sure there were 50 and 60db ones too


It must feel like a breeze to use those


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## Hendrixon (Nov 7, 2020)

Yea depends what is the resonance frequency of the AIO lol
Now instead of composing to the samples you'll compose to the AIO resonance


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## Technostica (Nov 7, 2020)

As a DAW doesn't typically peg the cores at 100% for long periods I doubt that cooling it silently would be difficult. 
The temperature doesn't need to be that low unless you are obsessed with low temps for some reason.
As long as it never throttles or gets within 10-20 degrees of the thermal cut-off point for extended periods I'd be happy.


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## Jay Panikkar (Nov 7, 2020)

If you want to control acoustics, you can try using foam pads to dampen the sound coming from inside the case.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 7, 2020)

I pulled these numbers from Gamers Nexus video stream where they cooled the 5950X with liquid nitro and did stress tests. I plotted only the above zero temps cause they went down to like -190C and o/c to like 6GHz  
The bottom part is the cpu's own all core boost under full load


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## Hendrixon (Nov 7, 2020)

Btw it seems the 5950X can manually be o/c to around 4.7GHz with normal cooling and maybe slight vcore boost.
Depending on your work load needs, if you need more multi thread performance you can do that, and if you need more single thread performance then simply leave the clock management stock, as the 5950X boosts a single thread to above 5GHz (they showed 5050MHz) by it self.
Gen 3 can boost even 2 cores if it finds that this is what needed.


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## Jay Panikkar (Nov 7, 2020)

The manual OC dips single core performance by a lot and almost doubles TDP, though.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 10, 2020)

Guys check this out, a page with SUPER detailed info on motherboards you won't find EVEN in manufacturers product manuals. I have no idea who made it but its insane...
I found it when searching for memory topology in X570 motherboards (what a headache).

Link


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## Pictus (Nov 10, 2020)

Jay Panikkar said:


> The manual OC dips single core performance by a lot and almost doubles TDP, though.



Look at this video


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## Hendrixon (Nov 10, 2020)

Jay Panikkar said:


> The manual OC dips single core performance by a lot and almost doubles TDP, though.



It seems the new board from asus (dark hero) has a new feature, don't remember the exact name, something like "dynamic overclock".
As we know if you manually oc a ryzen cpu, it lets you do that but it no longer boost single threads.
This new feature lets you set a "watt" parameter, as long as the cpu draws less then that, it handles its own overclocking and threads boosts. once it goes above that, it means the cpu has a heavy workload, which means its a multi thread load, so it goes to the manual overclock that you configured.

Nice


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## Hendrixon (Nov 10, 2020)

Pictus said:


> Look at this video




lol now I see this video showed exactly what I wrote about with the asus dark hero


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## chimuelo (Nov 10, 2020)

Wish I could figure out why the 5950X has better single core scores than the 5600X. It’s like 7%, and there’s only one thing different I can see and it’s Watts. 65w vrs. 105w.

Not going to lose sleep over it but I want that old Intel single core power I liked when overclocking. 5600X already beats my single core score of the i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz by 40 points.

I want all six cores going @ 4GHz on the 5600X, so screw the 1U chassis’s I’ve used for 20 years.

Getting me In Win D Frame and AIO Cooling, time to go for it.

It’s going to be a beast.
Waiting to see what Silicon Lottery comes up with.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 10, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> Wish I could figure out why the 5950X has better single core scores than the 5600X. It’s like 7%, and there’s only one thing different I can see and it’s Watts. 65w vrs. 105w.
> 
> Not going to lose sleep over it but I want that old Intel single core power I liked when overclocking. 5600X already beats my single core score of the i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz by 40 points.
> 
> ...



Chiplets binning.


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## chimuelo (Nov 10, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Chiplets binning.



I was afraid somebody‘d say that.
I’ll make my 5600X 105 watts then...

ankyu


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## Hendrixon (Nov 10, 2020)

The 5950X has the highest single thread boost, but because its still a 16 core cpu, it can't boost all core like the rest of the 5000 family.


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## chimuelo (Nov 11, 2020)

Phison E18 works with all Zen3 on X570 chips too.

This guy beliw is my go to NVMe bencher.
Bought my first M.2 through his sources in Australia years back.
XP941 was my first sample loader.

Check his bench rig specs.










Phison PS5018-E18 Gen 4×4 NVMe SSD Controller Prototype First Look (2TB) – Phison Raises the Bar - The SSD Review


Up real early this morning to write about the Phison E18 NVMe SSD Controller as there have been more




www.thessdreview.com


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