# Spec for job a second time?



## TheWillardofOZ (May 13, 2013)

A few months ago I spec'd (sp?) a scene as an audition for a scoring gig. They sent me some test footage, loved what I did, and told me I had the job. We went over everything from my pay to how the royalties would be split. I was told that a contract would be written up and we'd get into that once principle photography was completed. Well, it's done and now they've told me that they want to a explore other options and have all of the interested composers spec a completed scene. 

I understand that you have to have thick skin in this industry and they haven't done anything wrong...technically. Maybe a bit shady, but no harm done really.

My question is, is this normal? Is repetitive spec'ing of scenes something I should expect up until the day I sign the contract?

Side note: I worked for a production company at one point, but this would be my first feature film as a freelance composer.


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## Tatu (May 13, 2013)

Ask yourself, what would Je... I mean, James Horner do?

I've worked in different projects, mostly by hobbyist such as myself, quite a bit (so it's a bit different situation). Usually, especially with indie game developer-wanna be's, they keep huge amount of composers in the loop, working for absolutely nothing in a project, that disappears from the radar 99,9 times out of 100.

Usually, when I've found that out, I've slapped them to the face with a good track and then walked away with my music, because I just don't feel it's right what they do, when huge portion of those composers are merely beginners who get the impression that they might just break through with these guys by donating valuable time with their Garritan Personal Orchestra samples. Sure, some of those kids do it for the experience, or even just for fun, but still, it's not right when it turns in to a bloody competition over each cue/mood or what not.

You either battle - by doing specs one after another, until someone does something slightly more interesting to them and they ask you to do yet another - your colleagues, or you take the high road, and possibly lose some money.

Just my 2c.


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## JJP (May 13, 2013)

They want all the composers to spec a complete score? After they told you the contract was on the way? The most polite thing I can think of is to tell them to go fly a kite... Benjamin Franklin style.


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## TheWillardofOZ (May 13, 2013)

> You either battle - by doing specs one after another, until someone does something slightly more interesting to them and they ask you to do yet another - your colleagues, or you take the high road, and possibly lose some money.



I feel like it wouldn't hurt to get the experience to spec the score and possibly win the audition (...again....), but to also make a note not to work for them again.




> They want all the composers to spec a complete score? After they told you the contract was on the way? The most polite thing I can think of is to tell them to go fly a kite... Benjamin Franklin style.



They don't want the entire movie scored, just a scene. I have to admit, I had similar thoughts when they gave me the news. 

Thank you both for your input! I feel a bit more justified in my initial anger having heard that. :roll:


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## Rctec (May 14, 2013)

I see this a little bit differently...once a movie is shot, it's nothing like the thing you wrote for. Can you actually write this scene - which is very different from being good at writing music.
I never mind demoing things - it's the only way I can figure out if my abstract ideas are going to work with the picture, and, more importantly, if the director and I can agree on a common aesthetic musical language. Plus, I like writing music. I love it. I've never written for the money. Money doesnt inspire my muse. I've never taken a job. I've been broke, but didn't really notice, cause I was writing. Somehow it always worked out, even if it meant grovelling about the rent. I owe a lot of dinners to a lot of friends who where there at the start... It might be semantics to you, but I see what I do as something very personal and individual, while a job sounds to me like something anyone can do.
Contracts are a complicated thing. Negotiating them takes time and the right lawyer. If I'd wait for a signed contract, I'll just loose the time I could spend actually writing something good. I don't think I have ever started a project with a signed contract. I like to know what the budget is, but beyond that, I'd rather have a handshake from the right person.
There is a multi-Oscar winning screenwriter in town, who won't commit to writing a screenplay until he's worked it all out in his head. Not a bad way either, if you think about it. Stop relaying on the notion of them saying yes to you...make sure you can say yes to yourself....
Just more late-night ramblings while I try to figure out how to write that cue for the pivotal scene while ignoring everybody's panic about the time... But time is the only thing that really matters. Them giving you the opportunity to actually see if you can get a hook into this film is a gift. And if not, you got the time to write music and not flip burgers....
May the muse be with you!
-Hz-


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## Rctec (May 14, 2013)

Oh, just one question: you start by saying "...a few month ago..." . What did you do in the few month? Did you write the themes, get your sounds together? You should be way ahead of anyone else at this stage...


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## Tatu (May 14, 2013)

Rctec @ Tue May 14 said:


> "rambling"
> -Hz-



I'm sure the original demoing wasn't the issue as it led to what seemed like deal done. 

It was the sudden "let's do it again" part with x amount of other composers involved (Ultimately they're the invisible threat here, who threaten to take his gig.. it's natural to go a bit "WTF?"). Surely, the director wants what is best for his/her movie, but here it seems that he/she is doing it at the expense of composers and especially Willards... nothing new there, I guess.. :roll:

2nd thought; Willard, slap a good one on the scene and once they choose you (again), tell them that it's time to revise the deal


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## jcs88 (May 14, 2013)

Awesome advice as usual guys.

Hans - I really needed to read something like that right now. As much as I got into this because I love doing it, it's hard to see the forest through the trees sometimes with so many bills waiting!


OP: I was pitching for a game (another piece of vaporware that never happened), and we eventually did FOUR rounds of pitches. When they asked for a fifth I declined, saying they know by now what I sound like and how I write; they had ten minutes over four tracks of my stuff. Was a risk but I really wasn't ready to commit more time to it (especially because of the sketchiness of them anyway). It was a risk but they did end up choosing me anyway.

Both situations nobody did anything wrong but as others have mentioned developers/directors now like to swim in a sea of composers and take what suits them and when. I think a balance of flexibility and jumping when told and sticking to your guns is key.


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## Rctec (May 14, 2013)

Tatu, I think your second thought sums it up...one of my first times as a nobody I had to demo against Maurice Jarre and George Delarue. Yikes! They made me score a scene. I got the job. They cut the scene from the film. I still got to do the movie!


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## Martin K (May 14, 2013)

> I've never written for the money. Money doesnt inspire my muse. I've never taken a job. I've been broke, but didn't really notice, cause I was writing.


If there's such a thing as a secret to success, I think this may be it.

Thank you Hans for the inspiring words.

best,
Martin


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## TheWillardofOZ (May 14, 2013)

> What did you do in the few month? Did you write the themes, get your sounds together? You should be way ahead of anyone else at this stage...



I used that time to the best of my ability coming up with themes and moods and working closely with the director. I have about 30 minutes of music ready to plug in. 


I appreciate everyone's comments! I just have to make sure I don't get caught up in the business side and forget that I do this because I love music. 

Whether this situation works out or not for me, the demo at least is an opportunity for me to do the thing I love. Thanks for keeping my head on straight! Cheers! o-[][]-o 


P.s. - Totally didn't expect this to get a response from you, Hans. Made my day. :D


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## TheUnfinished (May 14, 2013)

For me the main thought in my head would be "What on earth are they going to be like to work with on the project after this start?"

I couldn't trust them. And it's near impossible to work with people you can't trust. I'd definitely walk. But maybe that's just me.


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## germancomponist (May 14, 2013)

Rctec @ Tue May 14 said:


> ... I've never written for the money. Money doesnt inspire my muse. I've never taken a job. I've been broke, but didn't really notice, cause I was writing. ...



Hans, you should probably also be a politician! That would give me hope!


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## Jimbo 88 (May 14, 2013)

Yea the business side sucks. The thing is... there is probably new production people involved in your film and lots of politics involved. Everyone fighting for a little piece of power. Someone wants "their guy", someone else wants you. 

I like what Hans posted. Do the best you can. If I'm not the best person for the job...then well I don't want it. If the film is run by a bunch of goofballs you don't want to be involved anyway. 

I feel if you work hard, you will eventually fall into a situation that is best for you, your client and the project. Everyone gains at that point.


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## sluggo (May 14, 2013)

As partially mentioned before, this action by the producers is reflective of their character. Not good. 

My experience...
The only time I was on a project that asked for a 2nd round of demos, I said no thank you. The middle-man was so embarrassed on behalf of the client, I was paid 3x the original demo amount. (It was not a film FYI). Maybe I got lucky, but to this day, I have not regretted that move.

At least try to get a 'kill fee'.


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## JJP (May 14, 2013)

You know what? I mis-read the original post. I thought it said they wanted the composers to spec a completed *score*. :oops: 

Asking you to demo a scene isn't bad. However, the fact that they're coming back for a second round of demos after they told you that you had the job is bad. On most projects that means they don't know what they want, and on low-budget projects it often means they don't know what they are doing.

You really need to ask how badly you want the gig.


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## impressions (May 15, 2013)

JJP @ Tue May 14 said:


> the fact that they're coming back for a second round of demos after they told you that you had the job is bad. On most projects that means they don't know what they want, and on low-budget projects it often means they don't know what they are doing.
> 
> You really need to ask how badly you want the gig.



^2

The source of their problem of not being able to choose is their laziness in researching the right manifestation of their vision. 
Or worse, their vision is based on consumption rather than experience. 
It's kinda disgusting to me (artistically) that a person chooses a path of sincerity but instead does exactly the opposite.


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## Dean (May 16, 2013)

TheWillardofOZ @ Tue May 14 said:


> I used that time to the best of my ability coming up with themes and moods and working closely with the director. I have about 30 minutes of music ready to plug in.
> I appreciate everyone's comments! I just have to make sure I don't get caught up in the business side and forget that I do this because I love music.
> Whether this situation works out or not for me, the demo at least is an opportunity for me to do the thing I love. Thanks for keeping my head on straight! Cheers! o-[][]-o
> :D



I agree,..forget the money and write the best music you possibly can,theres something to learn from every single piece you compose weather you get the gig or not.Anyway whats the big deal to be demoing more than once anyway,unless you have something better to be doing,..these things happen all the time,even to some of the biggest composers around. 
edit:
Also to second what Hans said..,besides asking about the budget and schedule I've never asked for or signed a contract before agreeing to do a project or doing demos etc.Sometimes I'll receive the contract when Im already about 10 episodes into a 52 episode project.D


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## TheWillardofOZ (May 16, 2013)

> Anyway whats the big deal to be demoing more than once anyway,unless you have something better to be doing,..these things happen all the time,even to some of the biggest composers around.



The thing I have a problem with isn't demoing. I'm more than happy to show exactly what I bring to the table on a project. My concern was that they told me I had a job after having demo'd my work, worked with me for the better part of 4 months, brought me on set to meet the crew, and then pulled rug out from under me as to "....not close out other options." 

Still, I'm not angry about it. The process brought about some neat melodies and ideas that I may turn into pieces for my local community wind band. I just wanted to know where everyone stood on the issue of having a contract before starting work.


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