# High-end or High-quality MIDI Keyboard Controllers



## ryanstrong (May 3, 2014)

What options are out there for really nice MIDI controllers? When I say high-end or high-quality I mean just that, not super cheaply made.

For example I am aware of...
http://www.doepfer.de/lmk4.htm

That looks super nice. What else is in that arena? I'd love to scoop one of those up but it's too big, I need a 61 key. I don't need a ton of knobs either. Keys, Modwhell, Pitch, and octave buttons is truly all I need. The rest would be a bonus.

Most of what I've seen it looks as though I'm paying for all the bells and whistles and not the actual construction and parts.

Options here?


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## marclawsonmusic (May 3, 2014)

If you like a weighted keyboard, you might want to consider the Akai MPK-88.

I don't like the drum pads on it, but everything else is very usable.

Cheers,
Marc


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## Nathanael Iversen (May 3, 2014)

http://www.flkeys.at/Products.html#LACH ... erial_97:_

That's about as high end as you get for a controller.

Obvously there is the V-Piano from Roland.

If you can find a used VAX77, they are very well made, but I'm not selling mine. Very glad I got one while they were made.

Kawai's top digital stage pianos usually rank highly among trained pianists.


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## Nathanael Iversen (May 3, 2014)

just noticed you want 61 notes... that is going to be hard. That is the land of cheap stuff. Maybe a Kurzweil PC-3 series? They come in 61 note, or look for whichever Rompler you like best in 61 key format - that will get you a better action than the $300 MIDI controllers that don't even have full-size keys...

If you want really nice controllers for knobs and faders, some of the new DJ stuff is looking interesting.... look at Livid for one example. I haven't used one, but they look pretty cool if you are into Ableton, or need a lot of real-time control. They are overkill for what i'd use at present, but look well made and are not $100 micro-korg stuff.

Will you be playing keyboard type of parts on it, or is it just for single-note entry like we do for orchestral mockups? If the latter, I have a 49 key Akai that does just fine. frustrating to play live though with small keys, strange leverage points on them, etc. lots of real-time control.


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## Saxer (May 3, 2014)

the only piano style keyboard with 61 keys i know is the roland rd 64. but it has an integrated sound module what you pay for even if you don't use it.


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## muk (May 4, 2014)

If you are looking for weighted keys that should feel as close to a real piano as possible, that's very tough to find with only 61 keys. The Fatar VMK 161 has weighted keys, and I think they are ok.
However, when I was looking for a good keybed (I have had many years of classical training) the midi-controllers didn't cut it for me. Not one, not even the high quality ones as Doepfer Lmk or Fatar Numa. Only in Digital Pianos did I find keybeds that played somewhat similar to a real piano. On masterkeyboards I wasn't able to play subtly and nuanced.

If it really has to be 61 keys, there's very little choice of weighted keyboards. Try them all and choose the one that fits you best. But the really best keybeds can be found in Digital Pianos. Some of them aren't much more expensive than master controllers. Casio has some cheaper models, for example, and the Roland A-88 features the same keybed as the FP 4F at a reasonable price. Of course you'd have to buy an additional device for sliders and knobs (such as the Korg nanokontrol, or a breath controller).


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## snattack (May 4, 2014)

ryanstrong @ Sat May 03 said:


> What options are out there for really nice MIDI controllers? When I say high-end or high-quality I mean just that, not super cheaply made.
> 
> For example I am aware of...
> http://www.doepfer.de/lmk4.htm
> ...



I have LMK2+. Really really nice keys, but in mine there's a bug that occationally sends out CC messages without touching the controls (CC1 for instance). I haven't yet contacted support about this, I'm sure it's a bug.

Also, a big minus is that you can't change the CC message of the expression pedal: it's locked to CC7. And I haven't yet found any way to globally convert CC7 to CC11 on the Cubase-in signal, only on the tracks with Transformer.


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## clarkus (May 4, 2014)

Nektar

http://www.nektartech.com/Products

New to the market, got warm notices in another related thread here.

I don't own one, but am thinking about it as I also would like a smaller keyboard to replace my M-Audio 49: the velocity control leaves a lot to be desired, as others have noted.

On a related topic, who out there has a smaller keyboard but is doing keyboard switching externally (i.e. without a mouse-click)? My understanding is an 88-key keyboard is desirable in part because the key-switching is "right there" on the keys that the software designers assigned it too. I'm curious how tricky it is to have keyswitching assigned in another way, if that is hard to set up or if its buggy. I'm new to keyswitching & don't know how it works other than in the 2 ways I am aware of: mouse-click or on a full-size keyboard.


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## marclawsonmusic (May 4, 2014)

marclawsonmusic @ Sun May 04 said:


> If you like a weighted keyboard, you might want to consider the Akai MPK-88.



I should have said MPK-61.

Bottom line is that you probably need to find a way to play the instrument and see how it feels under your fingers. Someone else mentioned they moved away from MIDI controllers to digital pianos. I can understand why. There is quality and construction, but then there is playing aesthetic - only you will know what feels best for you.


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## clarkus (May 4, 2014)

So - straying from the topic of this thread just a bit - who can recommend an 88-key weighted keyboard that has a good playing aesthetic but doesn't cost thousands? I will likely be looking for a used one, but here in the Bay Area a lot of stuff pops up on the used market.


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## PerryD (May 4, 2014)

The Kawai MP11 is on my wishlist. Better keyboard action than the VPC-1, plus it has pitch & mod wheels. Now if it only had after touch...

-Perry-


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## proxima (May 4, 2014)

PerryD @ Sun May 04 said:


> The Kawai MP11 is on my wishlist. Better keyboard action than the VPC-1, plus it has pitch & mod wheels. Now if it only had after touch...


I have the MP11, and it's very nice (though not without minor issues). Higher end digital pianos will not have aftertouch any time soon. It's useless for piano playing and these are, primarily, for piano playing. That's why the VPC-1 didn't even have a pitch and mod wheel, despite being a straight MIDI controller.

Keep in mind that a fully weighted keyboard is not that realistic for some instruments, especially synths and organs. You can get adjust the velocity sensitivity curves and such, but it's something to think about. If you had a synth-style MIDI controller, I'd try to keep it around if you have room. This is especially true if you like aftertouch.


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## proxima (May 4, 2014)

clarkus @ Sun May 04 said:


> So - straying from the topic of this thread just a bit - who can recommend an 88-key weighted keyboard that has a good playing aesthetic but doesn't cost thousands? I will likely be looking for a used one, but here in the Bay Area a lot of stuff pops up on the used market.


I'd spend some time at the Piano World digital piano forum. Tons of people there looking for and discussing the best keybeds, with many threads focused on the sub $1000 range.

There are a number of nice options between $500-$1000 (new). Honestly, people often recommend Casio models in that price range (e.g. the Casio PX-5S, though I've never tried one myself). They are often considered to have the one of the best actions (including 3 sensors) in that price range. I had a Yamaha P-85 for a long time (now it's the P-105, I think). Decent action for the price (~$500-600), but no pitch/mod wheels or other MIDI controls (not even a local off), so I wouldn't recommend it.

I was impressed with the Yamaha CP33, a ~$1000 (new) stage piano that's been really popular over the years. You can probably find a used one in your area. I'd focus on stage pianos in general. They generally won't have useless speakers and have enough MIDI functionality to be useful. Low end Roland stage pianos (e.g. rd300nx) or Kawai's MP6 (an older model, the lighter version of the MP10) you might find affordable used. 

The good news is that this price point and market you can find more readily retail (good luck finding an MP11 or VPC1 to try out in person, even in urban areas!). Even Guitar Center should have a number of these models; bring a pair of headphones, some will probably not even be hooked up to speakers.


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## clarkus (May 4, 2014)

"Keep in mind that a fully weighted keyboard is not that realistic for some instruments, especially synths and organs. You can get adjust the velocity sensitivity curves and such, but it's something to think about."

Would love to hear more about this, i.e. drawbacks of a weighted keyboard for triggering synths & samples. I'd been assuming if one didn'[/quote]t mind the weight & cost, this was a better route & of course a better tactile experience.

Thanks for lead to the Piano World forum.

Has anyone here tried Nektar MIDI controllers?


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## Jdiggity1 (May 5, 2014)

You can't play like Jordan Rudess on a grand piano action


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## ryanstrong (May 5, 2014)

Thanks for the replies guys - really appreciate it.

I'm not really concerned with hammer action, semi-weighted is fine. While I understand that 61 keys (and semi-weighted keys) isn't a size that most of the big high-end keyboards come in but was just wondering if there any companies that DO have a high-end 61 key.

I guess I'm just surprised, and maybe I shouldn't be, that there isn't a company that makes high-end versions of the cheap midi controllers that most of us probably have. I would think there would be a market for it.


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## clarkus (May 5, 2014)

http://www.nektartech.com/PRODUCTS/Panorama-P4-P6


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## apessino (May 5, 2014)

Jdiggity1 @ Mon May 05 said:


> You can't play like Jordan Rudess on a grand piano action



And why not? He does... :lol:


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## apessino (May 5, 2014)

clarkus @ Mon May 05 said:


> http://www.nektartech.com/PRODUCTS/Panorama-P4-P6



Sorry, but while nice, the Nektar keyboards are definitely still "cheap stuff."


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## Jdiggity1 (May 5, 2014)

apessino @ Tue 06 May said:


> Jdiggity1 @ Mon May 05 said:
> 
> 
> > You can't play like Jordan Rudess on a grand piano action
> ...



only Rudess can play like Rudess on a grand piano action...


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## clarkus (May 6, 2014)

Good to know, as I don't want to dish out for an upgrade to my M-Audio Keystation & find I've bought the same thing but with more knobs.

So ... same question as some others hereabouts. Who makes a good MIDI controller? I don;t care about the weighted action (I have a piano right next to me). But I would like to have it register velocity changes accurately. And if it felt nice to play that'd be a plus.


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## JW (May 6, 2014)

Hi folks! I'm a long time lurker, and first time poster. This topic really grabbed my attention. I'm also in the market for a midi controller..88 keys and weighted. This one has been on my radar. It hasn't been released yet, but I'm curious about it. I've never used an Arturia product, so I'm not sure if the construction is 'high end'. This controller seems to use a fatar keybed and supports aftertouch. It's got me interested...

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/KeyLab88/intro.html (http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/pro ... intro.html)

Anyone have any experience with Arturia keylab series? 

Cheers,
JW


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## clarkus (May 6, 2014)

I'm not saying don't go for it. Only that it bears out what a lot of people have been saying. You're buying a bunch of onboard synth & circuitry when you try to find a decent keyboard. Who's making a good MIDI controller that just does that: controls MIDI. That's what I'm wondering.


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## davinwv (May 7, 2014)

One of the best bare bones, synth action 61-key controllers I've ever played is the E-Mu XBoard 61. I stupidly sold mine a few years back and have regretted it since. They very rarely come up for sale in the used market, but yesterday was one of those rare days, and I have a nearly mint in box XBoard 61 on its way to me!

I've owned or played just about every 61-key synth action controller (even the rare ones like the ESI KeyControl 61, the ICON iKeyboard6, and the CME ZKey 61), and they all have one fatal flaw or another. For example, the iKeyboard6 had a great feeling action, but the velocity curves were not calibrated well and are not adjustable (and it has ribbon controllers for pitch and mod).

I, too, wish some company (hey Yamaha/Steinberg!) would release a high-end synth action controller with a great action, pitch and mod wheels, sustain and expression imputs, and just a few physical controllers in a slim design that would work well in front of a monitor. I would buy one in a second!


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## Cowtothesky (May 7, 2014)

davinwv @ Wed May 07 said:


> One of the best bare bones, synth action 61-key controllers I've ever played is the E-Mu XBoard 61. I stupidly sold mine a few years back and have regretted it since. They very rarely come up for sale in the used market, but yesterday was one of those rare days, and I have a nearly mint in box XBoard 61 on its way to me!
> 
> I've owned or played just about every 61-key synth action controller (even the rare ones like the ESI KeyControl 61, the ICON iKeyboard6, and the CME ZKey 61), and they all have one fatal flaw or another. For example, the iKeyboard6 had a great feeling action, but the velocity curves were not calibrated well and are not adjustable (and it has ribbon controllers for pitch and mod).
> 
> I, too, wish some company (hey Yamaha/Steinberg!) would release a high-end synth action controller with a great action, pitch and mod wheels, sustain and expression imputs, and just a few physical controllers in a slim design that would work well in front of a monitor. I would buy one in a second!



Make one 88-key and I'm with you 100%. I am amazed that there aren't more high end choices in the keyboard controller market. Here are the things I would value highly:

1. 88-keys weighted or semi-weighted.
2. At least 2 good mod wheels.
3. No onboard sounds (I could care less about paying for more sounds, I want the money to go towards a higher quality keyboard controller). 
4. Lots of big long sliders.
5. Presets for all of the major DAWS. 
6. A built in Surface controller, with track sliders and transport controls. 
7. Thin design that will fit on my desk easily. 

I am currently using a Korg M3, which is working fairly well. The MAJOR issue I have with it is that it uses a joystick for mod and pitch bend. Also, it takes several minutes to fire up.


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## Giant_Shadow (May 7, 2014)

Just my opinion, but I would watch Craigslist for something older. Not only for a good deal, but the previous generation of controllers is built/made better IMO. I have a Peavey CPM C88, but Yamaha KX, Roland, Kurzweil, Kawai, etc are all good choices.


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## Ozymandias (May 7, 2014)

davinwv @ Wed May 07 said:


> One of the best bare bones, synth action 61-key controllers I've ever played is the E-Mu XBoard 61.



I also own an XBoard. It's not bad, but not great either (the usual story!).

The velocity response on mine is so-so, and the action seems very noisy too. I've taken it apart several times, but nothing is loose.

The mod/pitch wheels are excellent, though, I'll give it that. Far better than my Studiologic.


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## ryanstrong (May 7, 2014)

Well if there are any manufacturers reading this, looks like there is a nice niche in the market to make some high-quality bare bone midi controllers in different sizes!


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## Giant_Shadow (May 7, 2014)

Hoping Infinite Response still develop there $1200 Poly aftertouch controller.
http://www.infiniteresponse.com/


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## clarkus (May 8, 2014)

Cowtothesky likes the Emu. I see some on EBay & they are not so expensive. The 49-key version is one modal that I see & then there is a tiny one.

Do there also feel this is a superior MIDI controller?


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## ClaudioD (May 11, 2014)

If you want a great keybed without fancy lights and whistles I would go with the Fatar-Studiologic keyboards,

http://www.studiologic-music.com/products/midi-controllers.html (http://www.studiologic-music.com/produc ... llers.html)

Fatar produces the keybeds for Doepfer,Kurzweil...

I am using one of their keyboard,the fatar studio 2001, and the keybed is one of the best I played, I found mine dirty cheap in a second hand store o-[][]-o


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## JimVMusic (May 11, 2014)

You might want to try out the some of the Samson Keyboards. 

http://www.samsontech.com/samson/produc ... ntrollers/

I haven't tried the Carbon, but the Graphite 49 had an excellent feel in my opinion, much higher quality then anything in it's price range.


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