# Is an i7-980X based DAW still cutting it nowadays? (opinions on build requested)



## musicpete (Nov 17, 2010)

Hi everyone!

So after 15 years of slaving away at minimum wage and up to 20 hour days, I got to a point where I earn enough money to purchase a DAW (and gaming) computer which is not pre-last generation.... I'm not rich enough to afford a Mac or Xeon setup though, so please do not suggest that. :lol: 

I'd like to know if a DAW based on these components is still considered OK to run large templates (LASS, VSL winds, SAM Percussion, SAM/QLSO/VSL Brass... all together lots of VEPro and Kontakt4 instances). Or are there newer and better CPUs/mainboards on the horizon and I would again be buying last-gen? I already have the HDs, cooling, PSU and case from my old build, so no need for those.

*1x Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition, 6x 3.33GHz, boxed (BX80613I7980X)*

*3x Corsair XMS3 Dominator DIMM Kit 8GB PC3-12800U CL9-9-9-24 (DDR3-1600) (CMP8GX3M2A1600C8) [2x 4GB Module]
*or
*3x G.Skill RipJaws DIMM Kit 8GB PC3-12800U CL9-9-9-24 (DDR3-1600) (F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL) [2x 4GB Module • 1.5V]
*
*1x ASUS P6X58D Premium, X58 (triple PC3-10667U DDR3) (90-MIBAB0-G0EAY00Z) Intel X58/ICH10R • Speicherslots: 6x DDR3 • Erweiterungsslots: 2x PCIe 2.0 x16, 1x PCIe 2.0 x16 (elektrisch nur x1)
*or
*1x Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, X58 (triple PC3-10667U DDR3) Intel X58/ICH10R • Speicherslots: 6x DDR3 • Erweiterungsslots: 2x PCIe 2.0 x16, 2x PCIe 2.0 x16 (elektrisch nur x8)*

*1x Thermalright HR-02 ohne Lüfter (Sockel 775/1156/1366)*

Your input is most welcome!


----------



## José Herring (Nov 17, 2010)

That CPU kills everything on the market right now.

Your build looks solid.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Jose


----------



## nikolas (Nov 17, 2010)

Yup, your computer seems rockin'! (what about hard disks, please?)


----------



## noiseboyuk (Nov 18, 2010)

Not wanting to thread hijack, but do you think there is a big real-world difference between the 980x and the 960? The other thread about cores vs speed was interesting...


----------



## musicpete (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks for the replies!

I hoped, that it would be solid: I got the ideas for the components from this forum (ok, some others, too....! :lol: 

May I bother you with more questions?

* Do you guys perceive any difference in the RAMs? Both are recommended by the mainboard vendors, so my half-educated guess is that both should work. I always used Corsair though and have good experience with them.

* Do you think the ASUS P6X58D is still a good mainboard? It's already been on the market for a few years. Would the Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R be a better choice, or is there a perceivable benefit to having the Asus?

@nikolas: My old computer has 4x500GB for spreading out the sample libraries (woods, percussion, brass, strings) and 2x750GB SATA2 drives for Windows7 and data storage. I calculated my old PSU in a way that it should support the new components.

@noiseboy: I am no expert, but I remember reading that people reported noticeable differences when moving from i7-950 to i7-980X. There are also some benchmarks, but I can not remember from the top of my head. I am sure there are much more knowledgeable people who can explain in detail.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Nov 18, 2010)

Peter - what you want to be assured of is that the motherboard is clearly and actually rated for the i7 980x, and SATA III SSDs. 

The i7 980x six core at 3.33GHz is bleeding edge right now and will last you for many years. It more than "cuts it". There's another thread around here discussing the performance improvement of HS with it using three (3) 128GB ssd drives. 

Keep in mind that the i7 900 series caps at 24GB of RAM and build accordingly. The more RAM you can afford the better. Consider WD Black Caviar 64MB cache drives.

Peter Alexander


----------



## José Herring (Nov 18, 2010)

musicpete @ Thu Nov 18 said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> I hoped, that it would be solid: I got the ideas for the components from this forum (ok, some others, too....! :lol:
> 
> ...



I personally prefer ASUS but Gigbit should work fine as well. I just don't have any experience with them. Some now claim that Gigabit is better.

The Mainboard I like is this one: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... CatId=4068

As far as Ram I've used Corsair and Kingston and I haven't lost a Ram stick due to damage ever, but that's just my experience. 

Jose


----------



## José Herring (Nov 18, 2010)

Interesting. I'm building a new machine in December, kind of like an experimental machine with parts I wouldn't normally go with. I'll try the Gigabytes then. See what I think.

The way I figure it if it doesn't work for music it'll make a killer multimedia PC!


----------



## Andrew Aversa (Nov 18, 2010)

Frankly even that processor is extreme overkill. You would get way more benefit by pocketing the $800 extra and putting that toward a slave system if you absolutely need the power. My i7-950 can run 350 simultaneous Kontakt 4 voices with reverb at 2ms latency with 0 pops or clicks, and without even coming close to maxing out all my power.


----------



## JohnG (Nov 18, 2010)

I agree with Zircon in thinking it's a mistake as well to put all your money into one computer. I think one quite good one and one slave is better.


----------



## musicpete (Nov 18, 2010)

Thank you for all the input!

I agree that having one or more slaves would be even better, but that is completely out of the question financially, due to lack of space and technical infrastructure.

Any other opinions?

Meanwhile I am going to figure out wether that HR-02 cooler will actually fit into my "old" Antec P182 case. I am surpised at how hard it is to get that information from the mighty internet. :wink:


----------



## Udo (Nov 19, 2010)

musicpete,

- Memory
I suggest you change your memory config from 3 kits of 2x 4GB modules to one kit of 6 x 4GB, i.e. a matched set (they have a different product id). With lower speed memory it's not as much of an issue, but at 1600 and up it becomes important to keep variances whithin a close range. Apart from frequency and CAS rating, there are other tolerances at play.

BTW, you won't notice much difference between 1333 and 1600mhz in most situations.

- Motherboard
X58 mobos of any brand should be able to handle the 980X, but you may have to flash a new BIOS if it's an early release (*which means you'll need to temporarily put an older model i7 9xx processor in the mobo to do the flashing!*).

If you use firewire for audio interfaces and/or external processors, etc, the Gigabyte mobos uses TI firewire chips, which are generally considered most compatible with firewire equipment (although I've also successfully used the VIA chipset (can't remember which brand mobo or chip set #) with RME and TC Electronic gear). ASUS uses VIA.

- CPU
Among the i7s, the 950 has the best bang for buck at present. The 960 is nearly $300 more, but has only slightly better performance.

- CPU cooling
Why the Thermalright HR-02 cooler? Intel includes the DBX-B cooling "tower" with the i7 980X. It's much better than what's included with the other i7s. Check this link: http://tinyurl.com/Intel-DBX-B-cooler

Also, I don't think the Thermalright HR-02 has a fan, which will likely be required for the 980X.
[align=center]_________________
[/align]
I was about to build an i7 950 Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R system, when I was offered a 2 months old 2nd hand i7 980X Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7 system with SSDs for a price I could refuse


----------



## hbuus (Nov 19, 2010)

Don't forget sufficient cooling.
I can strongly recommend fans from German manufacturer Noiseblocker. 
They are expensive, but worth every penny because of their quiet/silent operation.

If you are a bit adventurous you can get an almost silent machine by hanging your hard drive(s) inside the 3,5" bays with elastic thread. Just make sure you don't move the case around afterwards, and you will be fine.
This way you eliminate pretty much all resonance coming from the hard drive(s), which is a big contributor of computer generated noise in my experience.

Best,
Henrik


----------



## Andrew Aversa (Nov 19, 2010)

BTW, the Micro Center chain of computer stores in the U.S. sells the 950 for $200 or less... so if you have a friend here who can buy one for you, you'll save quite a bit.


----------



## Andrew Aversa (Nov 19, 2010)

Agreed... but I use a single machine (12gb DDR3 RAM, SSD, i7-950) w/ no slaves and even in my unrealistic stress tests projects at the lowest latencies I've had no problems. Just saying it doesn't seem like a good use of money to pay $800 more than list price for a processor that will be an incremental improvement. Save the money or invest it in other areas of the PC, then wait until future processor prices come down if you NEED that power.


----------



## musicpete (Nov 20, 2010)

Thanks again for all your replies, they are most insightful! I will try to adress all of the questions and comments that popped up, so please bear with me if this is getting cluttered up. 

@Peter Alexander: Currently I am not planning to purchase SSDs, as I will use all 6 of my 'old' SATA2 HDDs in the new setup. I will go for 24GB for sure, as I am *so bloddy tired* of running out of RAM like I do with my 8GBs currently. Also, would you mind taking a look at the PM I wrote to you some time ago? :wink: 

@ zircon_st: I understand you insisting on saving 800$, but you must understand that I live in Austria. A decent selfbuilt i7-950-based DAW consisting only of cpu/mainboard/ram/cooler as suggested by you will cost 1000-1200€ minimum. And that is WITHOUT case, psu, graphics card, soundcard and all the other stuff you need. I also do not have or want to build the technical infrastructure to support a slave network. Also my wife would kill me, if I started something like that... The one-machine approach is cheaper AND healthier for me! :lol: 
I also don't really know how well my DAW handles multiple threads (Cubase 5), it basically works for me in an acceptable manner (not perfect but not as bad as previous versions) although the forums are full of people complaining... Thank you for the link to your thread, gave me some more important insights!

Oh, and about saving 200$ when ordering from the US. I once had a friend who did that 3 times and every time his hardware arrived broken. Shipping it back and waiting months for replacement was quite depressing and expensive for him (shipping costs and paying import duties multiple times made the hardware nearly double as expensive as buying here)... Besides that, I am not a very socially competent person and thus I do not have any friends, neither here in real life(tm) nor in the US, even less someone who could send me stuff. :lol: 

@Udo: I already checked out those 24GB kits, but they seem obscenely overpriced to me. :? You really think that 1033mhz are sufficienft? Do you have any links discussing this? I'd like to know more.

I also did not know about the i7-980X's cooler. It looks nice, and the review you linked makes it sound as if this was the first acceptable stock cooler from Intel in a long while... But the truth is, I use a Thermalright HR-01 cooler combined with a 12cm Scythe Slipstream in my current machine (the Scythe will be reused in the new one) and the DAW is absolutely quiet (near noseless even in the dead of night with nearly no ambient sound to cover the comupter noises - you can only hear the hdd's when active). That gives me a strong bias towards the HR-02.

@hbuus: Thanks for the suggestion, but my current system is already noiseless and I will reuse the coolers, fans etc. from it. In case you guys also want a noiseless system, I recommend the friendly guys at Silentpcreview.com forums. They helped me configure my current DAW.

Thanks again for all the replies! I will have to go over all those suggestions in my head now. Get an i7-950 and upgrade later or pay more now and be done with it.... sigh.... Taking apart my DAW to upgrading is always a traumatic process to me, so having to do it twice gives me a headache already... :lol:


----------



## noiseboyuk (Nov 20, 2010)

I think - and I might be wrong - Zircon's point is that the performance difference between a 950 and a 980x is relatively marginal. I don't think he's saying that you should buy a slave with the money saved.

This always seems a hard thing to quantify in a real world system before you buy. Is the performance gain 10%? 50%? Does anyone know?! If it were 10% I Personally don't think it isn't worth 800$, because it will make very little difference in practice - better to wait a year or two and drop in a better processor then. 50% on the hand is a serious increase and would make a difference to your work.


----------



## Andrew Aversa (Nov 20, 2010)

That's just an artificial benchmark though... and artificial benchmarks are not good reflections of real-world performance gains with audio software. 

On the other hand, here is a real-world example of the Westmere architecture (same as i7-980X) vs. the old Harpertown architecture (a generation behind the Core i7 series)

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... wdown.html

As you can clearly see here, the performance gain is negligible, even though the 2008 system uses an even older architecture than the i7-950. 

Again, I know it's not a 1:1 comparison. But IMO artificial benchmarks are a best-case scenario, not what one should actually expect.. particularly for audio where multithreaded performance is still iffy.


----------



## José Herring (Nov 20, 2010)

zircon_st @ Sat Nov 20 said:


> That's just an artificial benchmark though... and artificial benchmarks are not good reflections of real-world performance gains with audio software.
> 
> On the other hand, here is a real-world example of the Westmere architecture (same as i7-980X) vs. the old Harpertown architecture (a generation behind the Core i7 series)
> 
> ...



Yeah but they're using PT in that example. Not exactly the bleeding edge of DAWS for multicore performance. So those benchmarks would be useless for somebody on Cubase 5.5.

Also they tested on Mac. OSX isn't exactly the bleeding edge of mutlicore performance either.

This is better:
http://www.adkproaudio.com/benchmarks.cfm


----------



## Peter Alexander (Nov 20, 2010)

josejherring @ Thu Nov 18 said:


> Interesting. I'm building a new machine in December, kind of like an experimental machine with parts I wouldn't normally go with. I'll try the Gigabytes then. See what I think.
> 
> The way I figure it if it doesn't work for music it'll make a killer multimedia PC!



Several professional DAW makers use Gigabyte.


----------



## Andrew Aversa (Nov 20, 2010)

Jose; Yeah, I do trust ADK's benchmarks in general... it's just too bad they didn't do any tests with a non-OCed 980x vs. an i7-950. I really don't think the jump would be 50% or anywhere close, practically. 

Anyway, ultimately what we can agree on is that the value for money goes down drastically with the 980X, as you are paying 5x more for quite a bit less than 5x the power (even in the best of circumstances.) 2011 will see the release of at least one new generation of processors, not to mention price drops on the cutting-edge of this generation.


----------



## Animus (Nov 21, 2010)

zircon_st @ Sun Nov 21 said:


> Jose; Yeah, I do trust ADK's benchmarks in general... it's just too bad they didn't do any tests with a non-OCed 980x vs. an i7-950. I really don't think the jump would be 50% or anywhere close, practically.
> 
> Anyway, ultimately what we can agree on is that the value for money goes down drastically with the 980X, as you are paying 5x more for quite a bit less than 5x the power (even in the best of circumstances.) 2011 will see the release of at least one new generation of processors, not to mention price drops on the cutting-edge of this generation.



I will let you know, I am ordering a 970.


----------



## adg21 (Dec 15, 2010)

Curious to know why the 970 and not the 980?


----------

