# Best DAW - Leaving Ableton Behind



## tsk (Apr 11, 2019)

Hi everyone,

Edit: Ah god, I think I'll withdraw from this thread. Sometimes those moments of frustration with the software can overwhelm a person. But at those times I think I'd be better off without an internet connection hahaha


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## d.healey (Apr 11, 2019)

There must be a million threads like this. The answer is always the same, there is no "best" DAW. There is only the DAW that is best for you. Download all the free trials and test them until you find one you are happy with.

Also, the forum search feature is very useful. This thread in particular might be of interest to you - https://vi-control.net/community/threads/moving-away-from-ableton-or-am-i.81026/.


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## tsk (Apr 11, 2019)

I don't know - I think being able to actually edit multiple MIDI clips at once is probably better than not being able to! So Cubase is definitely better than Ableton there.


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## d.healey (Apr 11, 2019)

tsk said:


> I don't know - I think being able to actually edit multiple MIDI clips at once is probably better than not being able to! So Cubase is definitely better than Ableton there.


It depends on what you do. If you need MIDI stuff then that's great. If you need audio stuff then it's not so important. It's what's best for you that matters.


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## tsk (Apr 11, 2019)

Also, if there are thousands of threads like this, then I'm glad to add to those saying that Ableton 10 is a garbage update.


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## Øivind (Apr 11, 2019)

Maybe Bitwig would be worth checking out. Their 3.0 update looks mighty sweet.


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## tsk (Apr 11, 2019)

oivind_rosvold said:


> Maybe Bitwig would be worth checking out. Their 3.0 update looks mighty sweet.



I've thought about this but I guess I just figure that Cubase is going to support more functions and plugins etc. Ableton was a bit of a gamble for me when I began and I was really happy with it until this update. I can't believe I paid $300 for something which I can't use well, and when I ask support about it they say maybe I can keep using version 9.


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## Øivind (Apr 11, 2019)

+1 for Cubase. Only downside is you need the e-licenser usb dongle to try out Cubase Pro 10 trial. Cubase Elements 10 trial does not require a dongle tho. 

I don't think you will have much issues with the learning curve. The Steinberg Cubase youtube channel is filled with great content, tips and tricks. Steinberg also have Cubase live streams on youtube every month where you can ask questions and get answers.


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## Jaap (Apr 11, 2019)

What I would advice it to try out some DAW's. Cubase offers a 30 day full trial here
https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/steinberg_trial_versions.html

As longtime Cubase user I can really recommend it, but I also know it's a very personal choice  
Good luck!


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## Quasar (Apr 11, 2019)

d.healey said:


> There must be a million threads like this. The answer is always the same, there is no "best" DAW. There is only the DAW that is best for you. Download all the free trials and test them until you find one you are happy with.
> 
> Also, the forum search feature is very useful. This thread in particular might be of interest to you - https://vi-control.net/community/threads/moving-away-from-ableton-or-am-i.81026/.


At last count, there were 7,355,921 threads like this, and the correct answer is always Reaper. What I would do if I were looking for the best DAW is test Reaper and only Reaper until I concluded that it was the best DAW for me.

Others may feel differently. This is because they are objectively wrong.
Just kidding.


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## kitekrazy (Apr 11, 2019)

I'm just one of those people no matter how great Cubase is (I have Elements) I just can't get into it. I don't like a dongled DAW. I don't like the GUI. I don't do a lot of VIs to appreciate it. As for dance genres apps like Live and FL just seem more inspiring. I do hope to become an expert with Reaper someday. As for Bitwig I have the CM 8 track version and don't care for it. I think nothing wrong if people use 2 or 3 DAWs for certain work.


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## gyprock (Apr 11, 2019)

My DAW is the best (but I’m thinking of changing it to 2nd best).


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## Fab (Apr 11, 2019)

I think it's good to be good with a few DAW. Cubleton is my combo!


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## MexicanBreed (Apr 17, 2019)

Reapletasic for El Linux Cougar 10.


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## Erick - BVA (Apr 17, 2019)

Quasar said:


> At last count, there were 7,355,921 threads like this, and the correct answer is always Reaper. What I would do if I were looking for the best DAW is test Reaper and only Reaper until I concluded that it was the best DAW for me.
> 
> Others may feel differently. This is because they are objectively wrong.
> Just kidding.


Agreed, except it's because there is no best DAW, but Reaper has become MY best DAW because it's all I've used.


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## Erick - BVA (Apr 17, 2019)

I did catch the joke. But I'm not joking


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## robgb (Apr 17, 2019)

Reaper is the best DAW for everyone. They just don't know it yet.


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## KallumS (Apr 18, 2019)

Demo Studio One. You can get it on rent to own at Splice.


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## mscp (Apr 18, 2019)

The only issue I have with Ableton Live is the unecessary GPU use they seem to ignore/omit for no reason. I asked their tech support if they'd fix it in the next iterations (I can easily wait for it), but their attitude rubbed me off the wrong way. They said they couldn't disclose the information (as if it was top secret?). Instead they told me to create an options.txt file to DIY fix my own issue. I literally laughed at it, but then I thought about it and told myself: "What? Why can't they at least give me an idea about what they're up to?". If they keep being secretive about it, that's ok. I'll just sell my push controller and go Bitwig.


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## Crowe (Apr 18, 2019)

kitekrazy said:


> I'm just one of those people no matter how great Cubase is (I have Elements) I just can't get into it. I don't like a dongled DAW. I don't like the GUI. I don't do a lot of VIs to appreciate it. As for dance genres apps like Live and FL just seem more inspiring. I do hope to become an expert with Reaper someday. As for Bitwig I have the CM 8 track version and don't care for it. I think nothing wrong if people use 2 or 3 DAWs for certain work.



Wait what. I have Elements too. Are you saying that if I upgrade I will need to use a dongle?

That's unacceptable.


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## Zoot_Rollo (May 17, 2019)

Reaper is the DAW Vegan.


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## MartinH. (May 17, 2019)

Phil81 said:


> The only issue I have with Ableton Live is the unecessary GPU use they seem to ignore/omit for no reason. I asked their tech support if they'd fix it in the next iterations (I can easily wait for it), but their attitude rubbed me off the wrong way. They said they couldn't disclose the information (as if it was top secret?). Instead they told me to create an options.txt file to DIY fix my own issue. I literally laughed at it, but then I thought about it and told myself: "What? Why can't they at least give me an idea about what they're up to?". If they keep being secretive about it, that's ok. I'll just sell my push controller and go Bitwig.



Do you think they're secretly farming crypto currencies on your GPU and only tell the people who notice the GPU load how it can be turned off?


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## pottering (May 20, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> Do you think they're secretly farming crypto currencies on your GPU and only tell the people who notice the GPU load how it can be turned off?



That's testable, people can check those things.


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## Hasici (May 22, 2019)

Right now may be the best time ever to buy cubase pro as they have 50% deal and if you have any of those DAWS that are eligible for crossgrade (like ableton) it is $170 for the PRO. Which is a steal.

The PRO requires dongle. I tried the Elements for a day or so and really it was a hit for me - so spent $170 on the PRO.
I do actually prefer the dongle than some complicated licensing schemes that require constant internet connections and limits the amount of installations. With the dongle I can install PRO on any computer I want, both PC or MAC without internet and then just plug the dongle and work there. You can even install it on client computer or bring it to a studio.
When you think about it the dongle makes it actually easier for the end user than some software lock that counts your installations, fingerprints your harware, checks for IP addresses etc... it is really painless and transparent. All you need is to carry the USB dongle with you that has all your steinberg licenses.


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## bvaughn0402 (May 22, 2019)

If you have a Mac, I don't think you can beat Logic Pro for $200. No dongle, and lots of amazing features. Perfect? Naw.

You'll notice most of the SpitFire guys use it all the time. Some will port into ProTools to mix, but I'm not sure why ... maybe because if they pay people to mix it, that is their preferred tool.

Then you have many on here (including Hans) who push Cubase ... probably due to the fact they can build huge templates in them without taxing CPU.

I've heard rumors though that Logic plans on addressing these issues soon.

And there is a large support for Reaper.

When I was on PC I used Cakewalk a lot, then Studio 1.


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## Hasici (May 24, 2019)

On mac I would likely go logic pro as well.... for the money it is unbeatable. But funny how I changed my tune lately: previously it was mac os over bloated windows. Now I am not sure anymore who is the bloated one...


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## paulmatthew (May 24, 2019)

I have recently left Ableton as well. They have not done enough with the DAW over the last 4 versions to make me want to stay with it not to mention the startup of Ableton was hardly ever a good experience or the crashes. I have 4 DAWs now , gas gas gas , but I am now with Logic Pro and I like it so far. I also have Cubase 9.5 and Studio One 4. I prefer Studio One to Cubase , but that's just my taste. One thing to consider is that Logic is $200 , and I think the updates are free. Steinberg charges for what seems like every full and .5 update they release which can be costly if you update every time ( currently 9.5 - 10 would be $99 if not for the 50% off sale) . Presonus only charges for major updates when they go to the next full version of Studio One , all other updates are free that I have seen since Studio One 3.5. Studio One is quickly gaining ground on the other DAWs available and have already won over a lot of users from other DAWs. It's a tough choice to make when switching your preferred workstation but going from Ableton to another I can say that Studio One would be an easier jump for you than say Logic Pro or Cubase. I hear Reaper is a great option too , but have never given it a whirl even though it is probably the most affordable ones on the market. Also , no dongle required for Reaper, Logic or Studio One.


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## kitekrazy (May 24, 2019)

paulmatthew said:


> I have recently left Ableton as well. They have not done enough with the DAW over the last 4 versions to make me want to stay with it not to mention the startup of Ableton was hardly ever a good experience or the crashes. I have 4 DAWs now , gas gas gas , but I am now with Logic Pro and I like it so far. I also have Cubase 9.5 and Studio One 4. I prefer Studio One to Cubase , but that's just my taste. One thing to consider is that Logic is $200 , and I think the updates are free. Steinberg charges for what seems like every full and .5 update they release which can be costly if you update every time ( currently 9.5 - 10 would be $99 if not for the 50% off sale) . Presonus only charges for major updates when they go to the next full version of Studio One , all other updates are free that I have seen since Studio One 3.5. Studio One is quickly gaining ground on the other DAWs available and have already won over a lot of users from other DAWs. It's a tough choice to make when switching your preferred workstation but going from Ableton to another I can say that Studio One would be an easier jump for you than say Logic Pro or Cubase. I hear Reaper is a great option too , but have never given it a whirl even though it is probably the most affordable ones on the market. Also , no dongle required for Reaper, Logic or Studio One.



Only 4 DAWs? I'm embarrassed to tell how many. If I had a Mac I'd probably only use Logic. I still like Live but I'm done with Suite upgrades. Too pricey for very little.


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## kitekrazy (May 24, 2019)

Hasici said:


> Right now may be the best time ever to buy cubase pro as they have 50% deal and if you have any of those DAWS that are eligible for crossgrade (like ableton) it is $170 for the PRO. Which is a steal.
> 
> The PRO requires dongle. I tried the Elements for a day or so and really it was a hit for me - so spent $170 on the PRO.
> I do actually prefer the dongle than some complicated licensing schemes that require constant internet connections and limits the amount of installations. With the dongle I can install PRO on any computer I want, both PC or MAC without internet and then just plug the dongle and work there. You can even install it on client computer or bring it to a studio.
> When you think about it the dongle makes it actually easier for the end user than some software lock that counts your installations, fingerprints your harware, checks for IP addresses etc... it is really painless and transparent. All you need is to carry the USB dongle with you that has all your steinberg licenses.



Then when you lose that dongle.......oh my.


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## Saxer (May 25, 2019)

kitekrazy said:


> Then when you lose that dongle.......oh my.


Then you buy another one. I broke up my car key lately. Shit happens but it's possible to survive.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (May 25, 2019)

Saxer said:


> Then you buy another one. I broke up my car key lately. Shit happens but it's possible to survive.


Exactly 
I don't really see the issue with the dongle. I have Pro Tools that requires one, EastWest, Cubase, VE Pro and SoundToys. Never had issues with any of them. And as soon as one would get a little damaged I would buy another. Not a big deal for a £30 that holds ££££s worth of licenses on it


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## Michael Antrum (May 25, 2019)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Not a big deal for a £30 that holds ££££s worth of licenses on it



I picked a spare up from Gear4Music for £ 19.00


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## paulmatthew (May 25, 2019)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Exactly
> I don't really see the issue with the dongle. I have Pro Tools that requires one, EastWest, Cubase, VE Pro and SoundToys. Never had issues with any of them. And as soon as one would get a little damaged I would buy another. Not a big deal for a £30 that holds ££££s worth of licenses on it


The dongle isn't bad. The Steinberg dongle works for Vienna instruments and REFX so its a win win sometimes.


kitekrazy said:


> Only 4 DAWs? I'm embarrassed to tell how many. If I had a Mac I'd probably only use Logic. I still like Live but I'm done with Suite upgrades. Too pricey for very little.


 Yes , the suite upgrades are a pricey for not getting much out of them personally. I find it very odd and unfair to their consumers too, that the standard version does come with a sampler as most DAW do. They have simpler but sampler is in suite only , WTH.


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## Tim_Wells (May 25, 2019)

I think the question is, what's wrong with Ableton? For me, switching DAWs is a real productivity killer. I need a damn good reason to do it.


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## paulmatthew (May 25, 2019)

Tim_Wells said:


> I think the question is, what's wrong with Ableton? For me, switching DAWs is a real productivity killer. I need a damn good reason to do it.


Personally , I had terrible startup times with nothing loaded and crashes almost daily. Fresh Ableton installs would work great for about 2-3 weeks then back to the same thing. Never had these issues with Cubase, Studio One, or Logic Pro on the same machine. Their CPU usage does not seem to be as good compared to other DAWs and setting up templates is not as user friendly as Cubase , Logic Pro , or Studio One. Ableton still does not let you create multiple tracks at once. It is geared toward djs and electronic producers which is very apparent after years of use. It has plenty of great things to offer like their warping engine (it's the cat's meow) and the Clip view for Live performances is great. For orchestral or rock producers it leaves a lot to be desired.


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## WindcryMusic (May 25, 2019)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Then you have many on here (including Hans) who push Cubase ... probably due to the fact they can build huge templates in them without taxing CPU.
> 
> I've heard rumors though that Logic plans on addressing these issues soon.



I popped some virtual popcorn before looking at this thread, feeling confident that it was the same discussion I’ve seen a million times already. But then you went and said this: “I've heard rumors though that Logic plans on addressing these issues soon.”

HUH? WHAT? WHERE? WHEN? 

I’d really appreciate any more details you can share about the source and details of these rumors. I’m currently stressing Logic Pro X to the limit with my 280 track template. It takes about four to five minutes to load and takes a full minute to start playing the first time I press Play (only the first time … after that it is fine). And this is on a 10-core iMac Pro, for goodness sakes. So reading the words that Logic might soon be addressing its limitations with large templates makes the words appear sort of surrounded by a throbbing, angelic golden glow to me.


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## kilgurt (May 25, 2019)

Nuendo 10 - by far!


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## Bansaw (May 25, 2019)

A good DAW to test out is Reaper. 
For me personally , its very stable software, and I've never had it squeak yet no matter how many tracks I lay down. I get the impression its programmed well; hardly ever crashes.
Updates are regular and there's some nice actions and third-party addons, themes etc, in the community.
Price is right.
The only negative for me would be the fact that I'm not keen on the stock plugins.


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## Tim_Wells (May 26, 2019)

paulmatthew said:


> Personally , I had terrible startup times with nothing loaded and crashes almost daily. Fresh Ableton installs would work great for about 2-3 weeks then back to the same thing. ....


That sounds like a damn good reason...


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## kitekrazy (May 26, 2019)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Exactly
> I don't really see the issue with the dongle. I have Pro Tools that requires one, EastWest, Cubase, VE Pro and SoundToys. Never had issues with any of them. And as soon as one would get a little damaged I would buy another. Not a big deal for a £30 that holds ££££s worth of licenses on it



Many iLok products allow for software authorization and more than one machine. As for eLicenser read the VSL policy. Dongles are nice for hassle free activation.


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## Syneast (May 26, 2019)

REAPER.

I've tried a lot of other DAWs because I sometimes want something a little sexier, but when it's time for serious work I always come back to REAPER anyway. No matter how I abuse it, it gets the job done without giving me any grief. I have come to trust it.

It's also one of the most customizable DAWs in existence. If there is something about it you don't like you can probably change it, if not in the options, then with macros or scripts.

It's small beacuse it doesn't contain a lot of bloat that I am not using anyway. It's dongle-less. And you can practically try it for as long as you'd like before buying it. I think I tried it for 10 years before buying it, but now I know it fairly well.


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## Desire Inspires (May 29, 2019)

If you have a Mac, use GarageBand. The program has been used to make hit records. Don’t be fooled by the fact that it is “free”. It is a heck of a program for making great music.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/apple-garageband-modern-music-784257/


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## CGR (May 29, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> If you have a Mac, use GarageBand. The program has been used to make hit records. Don’t be fooled by the fact that it is “free”. It is a heck of a program for making great music.
> 
> https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/apple-garageband-modern-music-784257/


Good advice - it's basically 'Logic Lite', and a great transitional DAW to Logic X.


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