# About to order some custom manuscript paper - opinions?



## JFetter (Feb 22, 2016)

I'm looking at Judy Green Music and can't find exactly what I'm looking for, so I'm considering their custom option. 

I'm looking for something I can write/scribble on at the piano for composing purposes. Something :
-High quality paper (off-white)
-Small staves, unlike most manuscript books (huge)
-NO bar lines, and NO clefs printed in
-Staves are grouped in two's, and the top and bottom staves are spaced closer together, but the distances BETWEEN each group of two is spaced further apart. E.G - plenty of space underneath the bass staff and the next section's treble staff.

Basically this is what you'd find in a professional sheet music book for Mozart piano sonatas etc.

Now, the wild part. I'm strongly considering it in landscape format 12" x 17" (12 staves aka 6 sections). This is essentially the size of a normal sheet music book opened fully (2 pages), except this book would have no crease in the center and just long, continuous staves.


It would look similar to this, with the staves grouped in two and the sections would have a larger space between.
http://www.judygreenmusic.com/pop_photos.php?p_ID=146

Anyone have experience or opinions on this?
Thank you -Jared


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## careyford (Feb 22, 2016)

Jared, this is very similar to what I've used for 25+ years. I do both sketching and initial draft this way although I use page of full evenly spaced staves so that I can do notes/inserts/revisions as needed. The 12x17 landscape is ideal for seeing how longer, horizontal lines work allowing entire phrases to be visible without a line change or page turn most of the time. When I'm working I will go straight across the top line, then down, then on to the next page, although sometimes I'll just right straight across as they sit on the piano (labelling it of course!) I've now adapted it to 11x17 so that I can print at home on a heavier yardstick similar to the Judy Green papers. 
I used Judy Green for many years before she died and always enjoyed the quality. I still have a big stack of samples rolled in a tube in my closet. Haven't given them a run since, but they look like they're carrying on where she left off.


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## JohnG (Feb 22, 2016)

I use Judy Green 16 stave paper, with 8 bar lines. It's sort of grouped into four staves (so, four groups of four) but really you can use it any way you like. The stock number is P-536. Love it.


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## JFetter (Feb 23, 2016)

Thank you for the replies. My main purpose for going landscape was to minimize how often I must write clefs and key signatures with each new line, but I can see how phrases may be easier to see and interpret at a glance.


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## Daryl (Feb 23, 2016)

TBH it is probably a better investment to get a decent printer. some nice paper and print your own. Then you have ultimate flexibility. I used to design my paper specifically for each project, because each project had different needs. I could just have short score paper (of various flavours) or if I was working to film, I'd have a separate one line stave for marking cuts, hits and generally making notes on the shape of the cue.


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## JFetter (Feb 23, 2016)

Daryl - that's an interesting idea. I suppose there would be some benefits to having loose paper instead of bound. 
One reservation I had was paying the initial set up fee for Judy Green and then finding that I wanted to change some minor detail and having another set up fee. If I was to print my own manuscript I'd just order Judy Green 11x17 and play with my own templates.

Anybody have some recommendations for free software to set up templates with? Something with a lot of flexibility - for example to remove clefs but still have the curved brace connecting the "treble" and "bass" staves.


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## Daryl (Feb 23, 2016)

I just set mine up in Sibelius. AFAIK you can print from the demo. Just not save.


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## JohnG (Feb 23, 2016)

JFetter said:


> My main purpose for going landscape



I vastly prefer landscape as well so I can put a whole idea on a single page when sketching.


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## JFetter (Feb 24, 2016)

I'm really liking the idea of doing the prints myself. From my reading laser is superior to inkjet, but for the life of me I can't find a laser printer capable of 11x17 for less than $600!

I found a Canon inkjet for $200 which may have to do. All I want is clean and crisp monochrome prints done.


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## JohnG (Feb 24, 2016)

Yikes!

In my experience, it takes a good printer to print even, consistent lines you can read well. Better than any printer I've ever owned for sure. And I shudder to think how well the paper feeder on a $200 printer will handle heavy paper like the kind I have here from Judy Green.

I love Daryl's pioneering attitude but $200 or $600 (just for the printer, leaving aside the heavy paper and ink cartridges) will buy you a huge stack of creamy, beautiful, pre-printed music paper. I would just get the standard stuff and live to fight again. You don't have to use all the staves if you want to make written comments at the bottom.


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## JFetter (Feb 25, 2016)

Yeah good point about handling the heavy paper. Any inkjet users out there who are happy?


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## Daryl (Feb 25, 2016)

JohnG said:


> I love Daryl's pioneering attitude but $200 or $600...


I suppose that as I print hundreds of A3 pages at at least 100gsm per week when preparing a project, the cost of the printer is minimal in terms of percentage of yearly budget. I guess if you don't print much, it might not be worth it. BTW I would never use Inkjet for music. It never looks quite right to me.

I just remember in the past getting some nice printed paper, and then being continually irritated that it wasn't what I wanted for that particular project.


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## JFetter (Feb 25, 2016)

Daryl, what do you know about paper curl?
If I'm going to print my own, I'm going to stick with laser printers. I've found some refurbished HP LaserJet 5200's going for around 400. What I'm trying to determine is if I need to watch out for any Radius values or some technical specification which will tell me if these printers will work good for thick quality paper (from Judy Green).


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## Daryl (Feb 25, 2016)

I think your best bet is to try them. I've only ever had an issue when printing back to back, and even then it is mostly avoidable. However, I only use 100gsm, whereas I do know that some people use 120gsm.


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