# Showreel time



## José Herring (Jun 22, 2006)

Hey Guys,

I'm fine tuning my showreel. Right now it's at 7 min and I'd like to get a 5 min version.
Tell me what you think. What could stay and what could go?

If you decide to respond I'd appreciate it. Though I would ask that you refrain from commenting on the use of libraries. I use Gold and Gold ProXp and that's about it for me right now.

Thanks,

Jose
http://www.jherringmusic.com/user/JHerringMusic%20Showreel.mp3 (JHerringMusic)


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## pdzl (Jun 22, 2006)

It's kind of tough as I'm guessing you want to have diversity here? I didn't like the electronic section at 3:40 personally, but I'd keep that for variety. 

For me the parts that I may take out are the parts at 4:30 and the final one. To me those are the weakest ones, not because they are bad, but I thought the others were just better. But of course, someone will have a differing opinion than I here.

I know you said not to comment on the libraries, but I'm guessing the synths and electronic drums aren't Gold. 

Very cool demo jose. I really enjoyed all the different styles here. I have nothing to complain about except earlier on, I thought your trumpet part sounded thin and a bit synthy. Still excellent composition though.

I loved the three minute section where it was slower and longer notes. Very interesting.

May I ask if you used additional reverb on some of the orchestral pieces?

Cool, I enjoyed listening to this.


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## Evan Gamble (Jun 22, 2006)

Why not include your live stuff?

Or are you keeping that as a different reel?


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## José Herring (Jun 22, 2006)

Evan,

Some of my live stuff is in there. I'm just heading in a different direction and I'm actually getting more attention from people from my more recent sample stuff. Though two of my live cues made it into this reel.

It's like an evolution for me that I can see but I haven't completely realized yet. My live stuff only got me so far. Most of it was for reduced orchestra and because of that I wrote it in a certain way. That way isn't really that "Hollywood" so it only sells to indie films and right now I'm soooo trying to get out of that market. 10 years is enough. So I'm moving in another direction. With samples I'm about 75% there, but it's enough to realize that movie type sound. So now people recognize that I can get a movie sound and that's enough to get them excited. Now I have to work my way back to live orchestras with perhaps some sort of combination of samples in my future.

Pdzl,

Thanks for the feedback. Trumpets are the hardest part for sure.


Yes, I usually add additional verb. I use Peter Roos' Samplicity set a lot these days.
The Electronic stuff is mostly Reason which these days I don't use much any more.


Best,

Jose


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 22, 2006)

I'm workin on my showreel at the moment - so I could offer some suggestions.

Get as many people as possible to listen. If 7 out of 10 people mention a specific thing that stands out as good or bad, take note.

7 minutes is too long, as you have said. Consider a selection of 10 full tracks, or a 4-5min condensed 'medoly' track.

For me, I found the first track to sound noticeably and distractingly synthy - very much due to the brass lines. The other sampled orchestral stuff sounded much more on-the-ball in terms of authenticity. Sometimes specific ideas can't be employed when samples are that much of a giveaway. 

I'd say shorten the whole thing, and make the first, middle and end pieces your most impressive, authentic sounding work.

Sounding good though.


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## Neilfactory (Jun 22, 2006)

Hi José, 

You could create many ambiance and atmosphere, great stuff :wink: 

My best

>Neil.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 22, 2006)

I'd get rid of the thing starting around 2 minutes.


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## Scott Cairns (Jun 22, 2006)

Hi Jose, wow, there's some really great stuff there, I take my hat off to you.  

I recently read something that I thought was a great point - Ive also historically done the montage style showreel, 5, 6 or 7 minutes long.

The thing is, no one is going to be listening on tape these days, why not seperate the tracks and list them? (everyone has cd player and can flick through the tracks at their whim)

If I was a busy producer, director, whatever, Id much rather look at your track listing and see something like;

1. Epic, Romantic Orchestral
2. Urban groove
3. Military score

etc.



Some of your really cool ideas are buried in the middle of the montage, Im worried that if a client doesnt like what they hear in the first 10 seconds, they may not realise your range and skills in other styles further on.

And likewise, if I was looking to hire you and wanted to hear the more modern/hybrid style stuff straight away, it would be good if I could track skip to those listed on the cd that might resemble what I want.

Just a few of my thoughts.


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## kid-surf (Jun 22, 2006)

Are people asking you for that?

I'd rather force people to listen to my stuff, if they want to skip to the next thing, cool, no prob. But why force them away from my music and on to the next track, and then again? (if I were a director and rather see someone who believes enough in their music to stand behind it and not be scared I'm gonna click it off) 

If someone is in too big a rush to skim through a CD they probably aren't doing anything I want to be a part of anyway. What else did they skim through.... the script, the shooting of the film?

I'd say it's best to at least give them the "option" to hear you develop your music. People really will listen to it if they are initially drawn in.

My opinion.......


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## Scott Cairns (Jun 22, 2006)

Well, Im not suggesting that you _force_ a client away from a track, but if they're listed seperately, the client has the option to either listen to a track in its entirety or to skip down to a genre/style that he feels he might need.

Its all well and good to set the scene with a montage style showreel, and to take your listener on a musical journey, but Ive found that clients in general are very busy, and that the music is only one portion of a whole bunch of other things for them to consider.

In a working day, Im not sure they have the time to sit back for 7 minutes and listen to a whole demo like that.

The other thing is, many clients Ive found are remarkable cluey about what they want, even if they dont put it in musical terms.

Ive seen a client flick through a few tracks, get to number 3, listen for 10 seconds and say; "you're hired"


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## kid-surf (Jun 22, 2006)

Scott...

My comment was directed toward the idea of a showreel. I'm saying I don't believe in them and that I'd rather give people the option to listen to the cue develop if they so chose. I think a showreel is a bad idea for many reasons. 

If someone asked me for one I'd say "ok, I'll send my CD reel".... :D Then they'd get a bunch of full length cues... oops, my bad. 

So we're saying the same thing really... only, yours is said with that cool Australian accent.... :mrgreen:


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## Scott Cairns (Jun 22, 2006)

Ah, sorry Kid. Ive got to stop reading these threads whilst doing 100 other things...

You guys must think I have A.D.D. half the time..


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## kid-surf (Jun 22, 2006)

No worries bro, we're all like that to one degree or another....


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## wonshu (Jun 22, 2006)

The beginning is very strong I think, but sonically it sort of falls apart in the synth sections, the accordeon (if it is supposed to be one!) doesn't work for me. Generally from about minute 4 or so it doesn't work for me anymore and feels jagged, which is inherent for cut together showreels.

My feeling when listening.


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## José Herring (Jun 22, 2006)

Yes Scott, I tend to agree with the idea of a showreel. For CD's I usually do individual tracks. I've had the opposite experience. Usually the meetings I've been to they've pored over every minute detail of every cue, if they're serious about me as their composer. It was actually a pretty successful friend who kind of tipped me on the idea of 1) a 5 min. traileresque showreel and 2) a 10 minute "all about Jose" showreel. 

Right now I'm working on the 5 min reel so that I can easily and cheeply get it out. Though it keeps on creeping up past 5 minutes. Thus your replies are very helpfull...keep 'em coming..


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## Mike Greene (Jun 23, 2006)

kid-surf @ Thu Jun 22 said:


> So we're saying the same thing really... only, yours is said with that cool Australian accent.... :mrgreen:


That's really funny! :lol: 

Jose, you've got a lot of great stuff there. But after a few minutes I was kind of zoning out. Listening, but not focussing.

Forget 5 minutes. If you really want a show reel (like Kid and Scott, I'm not crazy about them) then you need to get it down to TWO minutes. At 7 or even 5 minutes, you might as well play the full tracks with no time between tracks.

The thing that a montage can accomplish that individual track listings cannot is the fast bam bam cutting from style to style. It forces you to pay attention. So at the end of two minutes, the client is thinking, "Damn, Jose really nails a bunch of styles I'll need!"

And if you only give him 4 bars of the techno track (for instance,) he won't have time to notice and critique that it might be too repetitive or the bass part is boring or there's no real hook or . . . (That's just hypothetical. I liked that middle techno track with the reso filter sweep. But it was definitely too long for a reel.)

If you listen to any local rock or pop stations (KROQ, JackFM, etc,) every so often they'll play a station promo that will contain a montage of 10 or so songs they play. Each clip will be 3 to 5 seconds, hard cut one after the other. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. The funny thing is that as you listen to that montage, you're thinking you like EVERY one of those songs. Yet in reality, you probably only really like half the songs they play when they're playing them full length. It's because the presentation doesn't give you time to think about the parts you DON'T like about each of those songs.

Don't use any fades between songs. Make it all hard edits. And keep each cue to under 15 seconds. The first cue needs to be under 10 seconds so that right away the listener knows he needs to pay attention.

You've got a lot of really nice stuff on your reel. The hard part is accepting that you shouldn't use it all. When I send out reels, I'll generally start with 60 or 70 cues that I just gotta, gotta, gotta put on there because they're all so cool. But then I always narrow that down to around 10. There will always be a few awesome cues that just don't make the reel.

- Mike Greene


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## José Herring (Jun 26, 2006)

Thanks Jeff!

I'll certainly take a look into grabbing a hook for the opening. Good idea.

Best,

Jose


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