# Day job suggestions?



## MarcMahler89 (May 29, 2022)

Good evening VI 
I know that this is going to be a somewhat difficult topic, as probably a lot of the people here are in a somewhat similiar situation, but let me explain myself first.

My current situation is that im working in a day job which requires no academic credentials ( kitchen staff to be precise, something i picked up a decade ago in order to make a living whilst studying something non-music related, a studies i quit a few years later) - but the weekly hours (lots of overtime, plus varying shifts) plus the stresses involved result in me being increasingly unable to accomplish anything meaningful in my so called "off days" - which i reserved for music in the past years, to the sacrifice of my non existent social life & general health. Not only physically, but mentally im just unable to get into a solid flow nowerdays, no matter how hard i try. For reference, in the past Covid lockdown here in Germany, as i was basically unemployed and received only minor financial compensations, which was a stressfull situation in itsself, i was able to output so much more musically, and in general so much more content with my life.

So basically, as recently i was becoming increasingly discontent with my current workplace situation, im looking for a solution which doesnt drain 90% of my mental energy (physically it could be taxing as well, which would be a nice contrast to sitting in a chair all day as well) , whilst still being able to pay my bills. I dont need more money than just paying the rent & getting some decent food in order to survive without worrying how to pay the next energy bill.

Id be very appreciative for input of any kind!


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## SimonCharlesHanna (May 29, 2022)

I use to work in retail/sales which isn't very taxing compared to kitchen/food work and has stable daytime hours. Money was better too.

you could also search for something more related to the music or entertainment biz


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## SyMTiK (May 29, 2022)

I have found landscaping at a golf course to be a fairly decent paying, low intensity, low stress manual labor job with decent pay and hours that allow for flexibility to continue working on music. The hours are very early (5:30am-2pm full time) but apart from waking up early, it gives the rest of the day to work on music. I have been able to pay my bills reliably while doing work as an assistant the past few months in LA. Until I get promoted to a more permanent position in music it has always been a great and relaxing day job in my experience! I used to do it back when I was studying in school too, during the summers. You can also play golf for free when you do so at any course you work at which I have enjoyed! I never played before I started working at courses, but have grown to enjoy it as a relaxing hobby to take a break from music!
Definitely depends though, idk what it is like in Germany but in my experience it has worked out pretty well. Definitely prefer it to the times I have worked in a kitchen and in retail sales. I would say if a golf course isn't an option, any sort of low intensity landscaping work or cleaning work might be a good option. Any job that doesn't deal with serving customers in any regard I find to be preferable, saves the brain power for composing!


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## davidanthony (May 29, 2022)

Not sure if this is true all over the world, but in the US there's been a decline in people entering the building trades (carpenters, masons, plumbers, electricians, etc), and a lot of places are pretty desperate to hire anyone who is willing to learn on the job.

The hours are predictable, the pay can be quite good, and there are usually opportunities for promotion and advancement if you want them. It's where I'd look if I was looking for a new income stream ASAP!


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## dhmusic (May 29, 2022)

MarcMahler89 said:


> Good evening VI
> I know that this is going to be a somewhat difficult topic, as probably a lot of the people here are in a somewhat similiar situation, but let me explain myself first.
> 
> My current situation is that im working in a day job which requires no academic credentials ( kitchen staff to be precise, something i picked up a decade ago in order to make a living whilst studying something non-music related, a studies i quit a few years later) - but the weekly hours (lots of overtime, plus varying shifts) plus the stresses involved result in me being increasingly unable to accomplish anything meaningful in my so called "off days" - which i reserved for music in the past years, to the sacrifice of my non existent social life & general health. Not only physically, but mentally im just unable to get into a solid flow nowerdays, no matter how hard i try. For reference, in the past Covid lockdown here in Germany, as i was basically unemployed and received only minor financial compensations, which was a stressfull situation in itsself, i was able to output so much more musically, and in general so much more content with my life.
> ...


Life has become pretty unaffordable just about anywhere in the world. Depending on how much time you want for music and how limited you resources are I'd cut every unnecessary bill and consider moving in with family or finding a bunch of roommates to move in with. I'd definitely leave the kitchen ASAP - in my experience as a server/host/busser etc. the kitchen staff seemed outright exploited everywhere I worked and had to develop a really toxic "warrior" mindset to cope with it. Serving / bartending / barista work usually felt more promising and at least had some interaction with a variety of people. Typically pays better too (at least in the US).


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## MarcMahler89 (May 29, 2022)

davidanthony said:


> Not sure if this is true all over the world, but in the US there's been a decline in people entering the building trades (carpenters, masons, plumbers, electricians, etc), and a lot of places are pretty desperate to hire anyone who is willing to learn on the job.


Actually this is more than true for the overall situation in Germany as well, but im just REALLY bad at filigree manual labour. And i dont want to learn a "new" job, so basically working 40h+ a week only for the academic part plus working another 20-30 for sustaining myself and the bills ,without sacrificing my soul like working for an insurrance company, i want to work no more than 40 so i can divert more of my energy into music



dhmusic said:


> . I'd definitely leave the kitchen ASAP - in my experience as a server/host/busser etc. the kitchen staff seemed outright exploited everywhere I worked and had to develop a really toxic "warrior" mindset to cope with it.


Dont tell me that my "Warrior" mindset isnt something ive chosen myself, but its rather something that was inflicted upon me =/ Thats basically how i survive my shitty days.


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## Karmand (May 29, 2022)

Mobile Dog Grooming; small investment, short study, big rewards. Be independent, don't work for someone. Even if you simply just walk dogs, feed then at noon, take them out - way cool job. Independent, start your own dog walking business.


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## dhmusic (May 29, 2022)

MarcMahler89 said:


> Dont tell me that my "Warrior" mindset isnt something ive chosen myself, but its rather something that was inflicted upon me =/ Thats basically how i survive my shitty days.


That's definitely what I meant - I totally agree.


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## darcvision (May 29, 2022)

being software engineer, learn how to code. kinda tricky, but if you can handle it, you will have a lot of free time to do music


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## Chris Schmidt (May 29, 2022)

I know that feel, Bruder.

I took mainly the approach of reducing expenses as much as possible via small-scale farming. I recommend going in with friends and family and community projects if you can. I don't even buy food from stores anymore, and the handful of beef cattle I raise on some land I rent with a friend cover the costs I do have of raising and butchering them plus has put amazing-quality beef in my freezer. Saves a shitload of money.

As far as jobs, you want something that is a skill and not merely a "job". Which is why trades are a good choice, but not the only choice.

If you can do it for cash under the table, then it's probably a skill:



Karmand said:


> Mobile Dog Grooming; small investment, short study, big rewards. Be independent, don't work for someone. Even if you simply just walk dogs, feed then at noon, take them out - way cool job. Independent, start your own dog walking business.


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## Piotrek K. (May 30, 2022)

If 89 in your nick is your birth year than you are still young. Learn to code - shitload of job opportunities and good money + now you can do it 100% remotely (choose coding language based on job opportunities). If coding is not an option you could try online marketing (Google Ads, Facebook Ads). It's super easy to learn and all you need is basic analytical skills. The only issue is that you'd need a bit of real life experience to get a job in digital marketing agency, unless there are some junior positions in your neighborhood available. Although coding or aforementioned building trades (you don't need to be a plumber, bricklayer will do the job as well) is much better investment in the future.


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## Markrs (May 30, 2022)

*TL;DR*
Consider training as someone that can administer modern Software-As-A-Service systems. Training is often free, you only learn one system, not many, lots of jobs in popular SAAS, and it often pays well. An example being Salesforce Administrator.

I recently watched a Christian Henson video where he talked about having a job that doesn't allow you to enjoy the benefits from it, to the point you then don't push to do what you set out to do. In his case, was to work in a bakery in a café in London. He hated it, and it paid poorly, so that made him push to get out of that job and ensured he didn't have a safety net to fall back on.

The other option is a career that can earn you enough to give you breathing space. A job that earns you more allows for time to fail, without panicking and potentially going into debt. It allows you to take unpair internships (yes, I don't think they should be allowed either, but in the creative industries they are common) and still live.

The "negative" of having an in demand job that pays well is that it does become a job where your lifestyle could depend on the income, trapping you into it. It would also be an easy safety net you can go back to, this can be a temptation when things get difficult with composing.

This option has the pitfall of requiring a skill. There are few jobs that are legal that pay well with little skill required. Even most manual labour jobs require considerable training time (often a couple of years) and whilst you are an apprentice you won't earn that much.

As has been mentioned, there is the option of a "professional" skill such as coding. This can be mentally intensive to learn and do, as like most professional jobs it is a brain power job, which means you can often feel fatigued by the end of the day. I would say the same for more creative jobs like my own in User Experience Design, which is a great job that pays well, but you are actively thinking and interacting with people a lot.

However, there is an in-between option that not that many people know about, which is training up on just one Software-As-A-Service system. This limits what you need to learn and how long that takes, plus the training is free or very low cost via places like Udemy or LinkedIn Learning. These jobs often pay well for the in demand systems. A good example is a Salesforce Administrator. These jobs can often also be done remotely and have varied hours.

The 2nd part to both of these options is not to then just get a composing job, but to try and get any job where you are involved in the process. That could be as an assistant, an editor, technical help, doing mock-ups, working for a sample library company. Anything that gets you in the industry and meeting people, because it is all about personal relationships.


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## Loïc D (May 30, 2022)

Someone suggested dog-sitter job which is a good suggestion (my wife does cat-sitting) for short-term revenue.

But if you’re aiming at a more stable situation, I’ll join the choir singing “IT”.
Learning to code isn’t very complicated, a lot can be learn online and when you’re stuck, Google is your friend.
And there are plenty of job opportunities. And if you still want time for music, you can choose part-time or freelance.


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## JCarlsen (May 30, 2022)

As a software engineer I find alot of similarities between composing and solving problems with code. The mindset when you approach both is very similar. You start by having atleast a decent idea of what you want to do. You then start breaking down the problem, just like you would maybe start with a motif, you start coding a small piece of the puzzle, with the endgame in mind. You sort of learn how to not try to solve the entire problem, or create the whole track if you will at once. So in terms of complimentary skills i find the mindset you adopt from solving problems through programming to be of great value when composing. Im sure other professions can provide similar skillsets. 

The bonus is that becoming a frontend programmer is a relatively clear career path(should take you 6 months if you keep at it). High in demand, pays well. You dont need a formal education for it. FreeCodeCamp, Harvard CS50 course on edx and the odin project(web development) has all you need to get started(all free, crazy i know).

Downside i suppose is that its sedentary unless you are one of those eager whiteboard people :D


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## el-bo (May 30, 2022)

Get a bike and work as a food delivery guy, for one of the many 'Just Eat' type places. You decide when you want to work. You get exercise, also


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## Nimrod7 (May 30, 2022)

Software engineering can be quite draining. It's a constant learning and problem solving process, and you need to be on the top of the game to go through. You also need a good variety of soft skills to compliment that.

I'd say coding is a passion by itself, that needs dedication, it doesn't fit well with other demanding time consuming hobbies.

Companies that are nice to work for, they usually leave you brain drained by end of the week. The weekend is not enough to decompress, that's why most of them are thinking 4 day weeks.

Companies that are not so nice to work for, they leave you brain dead and pissed off by end of the week. It ends getting burned out.

Not everything sucks (like every job out there), I am into it myself for way too long now, and I really like the paychecks, but that dog walking / grooming business proposed sounds so peasant to my ears.


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## Markrs (May 30, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Software engineering can be quite draining. It's a constant learning and problem solving process, and you need to be on the top of the game to go through. You also need a good variety of soft skills to compliment that.
> 
> I'd say coding is a passion by itself, that needs dedication, it doesn't fit well with other demanding time consuming hobbies.
> 
> ...


Very much agree with this. With IT you are having to constantly learn as technology develops, that takes time, often outside of work. As mentioned above, the job itself can be very draining. The money can be very good, but it can be a mentally and emotionally draining job.


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## JCarlsen (May 30, 2022)

I suppose one thing you could do is go to a career day event, write down a list of traits you would like your future job to have. Work hours, flexibility, tasks etc. See if you find something interesting. Other than that i would say writing music, just like exercise requires great amounts of discipline. One small actionable tip is to pick up the Orchestration recipes course(given that composing with the orchestra is what you want yo do). When i dont feel like composing i often look at the videos for inspiration and force myself to get started and that just seems to get me going every time. Happy hunting


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## MarcMahler89 (May 30, 2022)

Thanks a lot for the numerous replies! ❤️
As there were several suggestions concerning IT-related jobs, i actually studied computer science at university , which i quit about two thirds through - just couldnt stand the thought of sitting in front of the computer the whole day for work, whilst doing the same in the evening hours. My brain was just mush after work. Just didnt work out for me this way, even if i was pretty good at it :(

Nowerdays, i kinda regret this choice, as the wage differences would allow me to work part-time in IT. With my current life standards (im quite humble... no fancy car, crazy insurances or other running bills, smoking is my only sin in this regard) i guess i could make a living with a 3-4 day workweek.


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## Paul Grymaud (May 30, 2022)

A day job ? Why not a* night job* ? 
I myself have worked nights for about ten years in food production and also in the manufacture of printed circuits. I earned 10% more than the same job during the day. But more importantly, I started at 10:00 in the evening and finished at 6:00 in the morning. Back home, I slept from 7:00 am to 14:00 pm. So I had about 6 hours to spare. After having slept without the fatigue of a working day! Also, on Friday we had a short night, from 10:00 pm to 4:00 am so that on Saturday I got up around noon. I had Saturday, Sunday AND Monday since I only started again in the evening. Three days free. Any possibilities? Hotel receptionist, security guard, production operator in a factory, cleaning, road transport, logistics, etc. There are quite a few jobs that offer the benefits of night work. Something to think about.


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## Markrs (May 30, 2022)

MarcMahler89 said:


> Thanks a lot for the numerous replies! ❤️
> As there were several suggestions concerning IT-related jobs, i actually studied computer science at university , which i quit about two thirds through - just couldnt stand the thought of sitting in front of the computer the whole day for work, whilst doing the same in the evening hours. My brain was just mush after work. Just didnt work out for me this way, even if i was pretty good at it :(
> 
> Nowerdays, i kinda regret this choice, as the wage differences would allow me to work part-time in IT. With my current life standards (im quite humble... no fancy car, crazy insurances or other running bills, smoking is my only sin in this regard) i guess i could make a living with a 3-4 day workweek.


You don't need to have completed your degree to still get a part-time IT job. You might need to do a refresher on some of the languages. 

IT Jobs can offer a lot of flexibility in the post Covid world than they did before as remote and flexible hour working is much more common. Demand means you have more power to dictate your work hours.

Also Ddn't go for a job where you have to learn every coding language and keep up to date with the newest changes. Pick something where you can do a few months of specific intensive learning and after that it is more about application.


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## MarcusD (May 30, 2022)

Delivery Driver (groceries) : Used to do this for Tesco. You’re out and about, meet different people, shifts go quick, no one breathing down your neck.

Actually not a bad job. The only downsides: delivering to rough neighbourhoods, disgusting homes (like dog shit and mould inside the house) driving in bad weather conditions or having drivers cut you up.


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## Daren Audio (May 30, 2022)

UX design is another great option.

Food service is brutal. My entire family was in the restaurant biz. No weekends, no holidays off.
If you lived in the US, especially the West Coast, I would have suggested working for In-N-Out burger and work your way up to manager. It pays more than average salaries of attorneys and architects, great work-life balance, and first-class travel perks!

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/...er-make-160000-a-year-heres-how-it-works.html


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## Crowe (May 30, 2022)

Gonna put my vote behind IT, but firmly *against* getting into coding as a matter of course. Coding is a passion, people who only go into it because it pays well generally just don't get very good at it and burn out pretty fast.

There's lots of other possibilities though. There's consultancy (IT lifecycle management, workspace management, deployment strategies etc.), project management (General or Scrum-oriented), Network Administration etc. Someone also mentioned Software Administration which I can recommend, though it may require a lot of very specific knowledge. For example, I know a couple of Sharepoint administrators who are very good at their jobs, but may generally speak Enochian for all I know.

Keep in mind that all IT jobs require training. A lot of businesses allow you to learn on the job, but it does take some time investment.

Anyway. If you have the aptitude, go into IT. The hours are (generally) good, the stress is (generally) manageable and everything is better than working is food services.


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## Markrs (May 31, 2022)

Daren Audio said:


> UX design is another great option.


Love this job, I have done it for 20+ years, and It is a career I have helped people into and recommend it. After all, how many other careers, allow you to be creative, solve problems to make things better, work with lots of different people collaboratively and get paid well to do it?

On the negative side, personally I find it can be mentally fatiguing, due to it being a problem-solving, creative and people orientated profession. I find being creative afterwards can be tough.



Crowe said:


> There's lots of other possibilities though. There's consultancy (IT lifecycle management, workspace management, deployment strategies etc.), project management (General or Scrum-oriented), Administration etc.


I agree that these are good options. Anything that is more process/admin orientated and doesn't require learning a huge amount of new things all the time are a good option.


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 11, 2022)

CheyeOl said:


> What are your skills? Software engineering is rather profitable, but learning how to code can take time. What about freelance options?


Agree with the above -- if you're in music AND in this forum, why wouldn't you consider a 'day job' in some form of IT? The synergies are there for the taking. If you're not directly in software development, there's plenty of places to get started (help desk, etc.) where a native knowledge of tech will get you in the front door.

(Aside: I work in the field, and a surprising amount of the team I'm on are or were actively involved in music post-high school...my direct-report boss actually plays in his own band and does local gigs regularly.)


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## Alchemedia (Jul 13, 2022)

I wouldn't recommend any job where you are working on a computer all day long if you intend to spend nights and weekends sitting at the computer producing music.


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## widescreen (Jul 14, 2022)

Alchemedia said:


> I wouldn't recommend any job where you are working on a computer all day long if you intend to spend nights and weekends sitting at the computer producing music.


Following the thread for some time now and reading this I thought it would be the right time to chime in.

If you want to avoid jobs, where you need a computer, the variety gets quite thin. Even gardeners which lead small teams sit a lot of time at the computer.

I am in a really extreme situation, concerning screens. My day job is IT for 25+ years now which pays family, house, cars, holidays (and allows my wife to only work 50%). Besides an IT side job, where I generate the additional money for such an expensive hobby like producing music. So I sit in front of screens most of the time.
I like films. Even more screentime.

The only way I cope with it is because I seize every opportunity to do things that do not need any screen. 

- I go into nature alone or with my family. Luckily I have enough nature in little distance so we can go walking through the woods and hills. If I'm alone, I enjoy to combine this with the musical hobby and do field recording. It is quite amazing how much more you hear through a sensitive mic compared to only by ear! But best is to grab my mobile studio setup (everything fits into one backpack incl. an NI M32) and sit somewhere on a hill with fantastic clear views, surrounded by trees and combine nature with composing. I even supported a customer from there one time, 4G and TeamViewer make it possible. After a time he was wondering why there were so many birds tweeting in the background. 

- Learning a few instruments like piano or guitar doesn't necessarily need a screen (although videos can help a lot), so this improves myself in music, keeps my fingers trained without staring into a screen.

- Having a garden helps a lot. You don't need a screen do dig holes or grow plants. If gardening would generate more money I would like to be a landscape gardener, work in the zoo or similar as a day job. That would of course be better concering screen time.

So from my experience I would recommend the following for an average music producer:
If you produce music on a computer, you MUST have a decent amount of IT servicing skills. Because otherwise you would not be able to get things working. But you cannot imagine how many people are out there who have completely no clue about computers although they use them everyday. Search for these people. I could easily switch to a full job doing the IT of only small practices (dentists, lawyers et al). They all need IT help which can be done in most cases with only average IT experience. They do not have the time to do it themselves as they earn more money doing their jobs than you cost them.
The work itself is not challenging for me, but this way I earn more money than my boss in his day job with a lot less effort. Doing it 25% in average (on top of my 100% job) I earn the yearly income I got in my first year as an IT professional (which was already more than the average kitchen helper earns today). And as a part-time service I cannot invoice the usual rates of full-time services.

So enough time to do music, if that's enough for you. 
If you need more money, search for more customers to have an average of 50% full time.

Maybe in the next months I can decrease my day job amount to 80% while my wife increases to 60-70%, so we lose not much but I get a more balanced life. And therefore create more music.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 15, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Love this job, I have done it for 20+ years, and It is a career I have helped people into and recommend it. After all, how many other careers, allow you to be creative, solve problems to make things better, work with lots of different people collaboratively and get paid well to do it?
> 
> On the negative side, personally I find it can be mentally fatiguing, due to it being a problem-solving, creative and people orientated profession. I find being creative afterwards can be tough.
> 
> ...


The other downside of UX is that (most) everyone thinks they're a designer, whereas if you're a developer, that doesn't tend to happen. This means that, as a UXer, you have developers, product managers, QA, and even executives thinking they know how to design as well or better, so you have to learn a lot of people skills - and be willing to just do what you're told no matter how stupid it is if you want to keep that job. Doesn't matter at all if you actually designed something legitimately brilliant if you can't convince others that their ideas are worse, without actually being insulting.

Cheers from another 20+ year UXer here (more research than design at this point).

A lot of junior (or even senior) developers just get their assignment, or grab from JIRA, do their code, go to their standups, and then they're done for the day. Day after day. That actually sounds more pleasant to me a lot of the time. They wrestle with mental challenges, of course, but typically fewer people challenges.


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