# Courses about (advanced) music theory, composition and orchestration basics?



## Voider (Oct 25, 2017)

Hey! Instead of spending more money on new libraries, I've decided to work on my skills first. I have worked through a whole book of music theory, know the basics and scales, how to build chords and all of that.

But now I'd like to extend my knowledge, how to put all of that together in a track. How to develop a composition, and how to orchestrate. 

I know Mike Verta offers a lot of masterclasses with good reputation, then there was this Trailer Scoring course by Walid. Else I know there is the Hans Zimmer master class, but from reviews it focuses more on composing philosophy and not on the basics.

Do you guys know any really good courses about those topics?


----------



## Paul T McGraw (Oct 25, 2017)

Here is a thread on this topic,

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/best-online-courses-for-composing.64195/#post-4118611


----------



## Voider (Oct 25, 2017)

Great thank you I will look into this thread!


----------



## Voider (Oct 26, 2017)

Has anyone experience with this one? https://courses.evenant.com/p/cinematic-music-from-idea-to-finished-recording

I looked into the previews and liked it so far, but $299 is a very huge price.
Would like to hear some user experience  Especially about how deep it goes for someone who is not super new to music theory, but not an expert as well.


----------



## JohnG (Oct 26, 2017)

Hey there cousin,

Nothing -- nothing -- is more valuable than your time. Get as much knowledge as fast as possible, no matter what the out-of-pocket cost, so that you have a chance to get somewhere. I have no idea about the courses mentioned, but if you think that you should "save money" and spend another six months labouring in ignorance, you have the wrong end of the stick.

How much is six months of your time, or even one month's worth? A heck of a lot more than $299 or even much more, in the scheme of things. I am all for frugality, but not when it comes to education (and real estate, but that's another topic...).


----------



## Voider (Oct 26, 2017)

You're right, but I got stuck in a complicated personal situation where I am not able to earn more money than I need to live per month - so what I have is what I have, and when it's gone it will take a lot of time until I will reach a point where I can again earn a bit more. That's why I am thinking so much about investments or purchases. If I would earn enough money per month to at least save up a bit, I would absolutely not care. But as long as I am stuck in this chapter of my life, I need to plan my few resources wisely.


----------



## NoamL (Oct 26, 2017)

Get BOOKS

Tonal Harmony, Kostka - - - - $45 on Amazon
The Jazz Theory Book, Levine - - - $40 on Amazon
Principles Of Orchestration, Rimsky Korsakov- - - FREE
then read Techniques Of Orchestration, Kennan ($120 on Amazon)
or Study Of Orchestration, Adler ($100)
or Orchestration, Piston ($40).

You can probably check them *all* out for free at your local library through the interlibrary-loan system (your library requests a copy from the nearest library that has one; it takes about 2 weeks).

Get books. Seriously, I like Mike, but you are not going to learn harmony or orchestration by watching a seminar, regardless of the medium (classroom, online video, etc) or how enthusiastic the presenter is. Because they are systematic fields of knowledge with a large amount of material to cover in a steady progression from basics to details. That's what books are for.


----------



## nik (Oct 26, 2017)

Voider said:


> Has anyone experience with this one? https://courses.evenant.com/p/cinematic-music-from-idea-to-finished-recording
> 
> I looked into the previews and liked it so far, but $299 is a very huge price.
> Would like to hear some user experience  Especially about how deep it goes for someone who is not super new to music theory, but not an expert as well.


I did the Evenant Trailer Course which gives u a a nice overview of Trailer Music.It teaches u the *structure* of modern trailer cues and gives u examples. I think it does that pretty well. 
I also did the scoring from beginning to end ( or something like that) from evenant. It also gives you a nice *overview* of producing a epic orchestral track. 
That being said i think these courses are good for beginners how have to get an overview on topics they need to learn. if you want to learn music theory or orchestration, these are not the courses to attend, because they only scratch the surface of these topics. 
I recently started doing the courses of alan mayrand, the score club. Altough i only started with the essential composer training and i am half way through, i can say that these courses seem to be some of the best out there. He really knows what he is doing and i love the motivation he brings to my compositions. I think you really cant go wrong with these courses!
hope that helps
nik


----------



## JF (Oct 26, 2017)

Another vote for Scoreclub here as well as the books mentioned by NoamL.


----------



## Voider (Oct 26, 2017)

Thanks for all the posts so far 

And @NoamL I do think that these courses and music theory books approach different things. Of course the courses won't go in detail into composing techniques like a book does, but the book vice versa doesn't show me how to do modern productions in my DAW and how to put everything together. I think both would complement each other pretty well  But since I just have finished a large book, I'd like to make some more practical experience, then I can still dive deeper with books.


----------



## JohnG (Oct 26, 2017)

NoamL said:


> You can probably check them *all* out for free at your local library through the interlibrary-loan system (your library requests a copy from the nearest library that has one; it takes about 2 weeks).
> 
> Get books. Seriously, I like Mike, but you are not going to learn harmony or orchestration by watching a seminar, regardless of the medium (classroom, online video, etc) or how enthusiastic the presenter is. Because they are systematic fields of knowledge with a large amount of material to cover in a steady progression from basics to details. That's what books are for.




Great advice!!


----------



## Dave Connor (Oct 27, 2017)

You can’t go wrong in studying music in this way or that as you will always learn something. Composition however requires a one on one lesson program with a good teacher. Why? For the same reason that if you polled a 120 piece world class orchestra (Film, Classical, etc.,) each and every one of them would be able to name their teacher(s) - including the conductor. They’ve all read a ton of books and gone to classes and seminars as well but there’s no substitute for private instruction as it is directed at you personally.

The teacher will bring you to an objective standard of understanding in areas you simply wouldn’t address on your own. Areas that are trouble spots unique to you will be worked with by the teacher until you have overcome them (the way a trainer works with physical weaknesses unique to someone.) It should be a challenging, exhilarating, life changing experience which those who have gone before will no doubt confirm. I say this as both student and teacher.


----------



## Voider (Oct 27, 2017)

I can't afford a teacher at the moment, maybe in the future but I am doing really pretty well with teaching myself  Well, of course with ressources (books, videos, courses, articles) others have produced. I learn from teachers as well, I just can't ask them specificly and have to find a way to get to the information I want. But that's not always bad, because sometimes you try out 10 ways to find 1 answer, but have learned 9 different new things, while your teacher would've answered your only question and you would've missed the other ways 

Anyway, I went for the full bundle on evenant, have now tons of stuff to learn for the next couple of weeks/months.

Thank you all for your recommendations and I will keep the book ones in mind


----------



## robharvey (Oct 27, 2017)

I would recommend learning your theory through an instrument because it gives you a frame of reference when applying it to your work. Piano is great because it's a linear instrument and easy to visualise. 

I'd learn't it with guitar in mind and now all I see are shapes. So... many... shapes...

But I'd also like to say I've seen kids in New Orleans tear up the hammond organ and then turn round and say "just playin' man". Takes practise to get good dude!


----------



## Voider (Oct 27, 2017)

I learn it all on the "piano" - midi keyboard. I've played on real pianos all my school time (and on my keyboard at home), I never could read notes but over the years I'd learned to improvise and how to play by ear. Two years ago I finally started learning how to read and write musical notation and the first little piano pieces and I'm still continuing learning that. I plan to get myself an 88 keys hammer mechanism midi keyboard in the future 

It's funny how I as child found out that I liked to play chords, without knowing what they are or why they work how they work. I just remembered always that leaving one free space between two white keys would sound good - from the perspective of a child. I learned to use my left hand to play bass tones and to roam more freely with the right one, playing those chords, both, melodic and harmonic. When I started learning music theory two years ago I often had "ahh!" moments where I realized how things that earlier already became common for me actually worked and how to expand and make controlled use of them.


----------



## Dave Connor (Oct 27, 2017)

Voider said:


> I can't afford a teacher at the moment...


 One of the greatest things a teacher does is evaluate how well you're doing since it's so difficult to evaluate one's self.


----------



## robharvey (Oct 27, 2017)

I feel like there needs to be some sort of composer voice chat somewhere where people can talk about stuff like this.


----------



## Blackster (Oct 28, 2017)

All of the books mentioned above are great, most of them I've been reading myself. However, they give you only theory, no real application or translation from theory to your actual writing. That's exactly why Thomas Chase Jones I have created the http://musicintervaltheory.academy/the-course/ (M.I.T.A. course). Actually, it started as collection of devices and musical tools for our own needs because it had to be practical and useful.Btw, sign up for free to http://musicintervaltheory.academy/m-i-t-a-magazine/ (M.I.T.A. Magazine) and you'll receive tons of information right away! :D

It won't help you if you read 300 pages about strings, believe me.  ... I've done that and it didn't change anything for me or my writing. Everybody who knows me (at least a little bit) understands that I'm all for transparency and never hold back anything. That's why I'm about to release a series on Instagram that shows actual parts of the course. It's called "Music Theory in less than 1min." :D ... probably the first video goes out next week. If that helps, please follow me there (@frank_composer) ... 

Besides that, at our academy we are in the process of setting up webinars that will cover subjects from the course for a small fee. This is in the testing phase right now and will start probably in around 2-4 weeks. Also, there'll be a free introduction to M.I.T.A. in general to see how the tools and the devices can be used. I'll be giving this webinar, so in case somebody has questions about that, please shoot me ... well ... you know what I mean.


----------

