# What's a Good (cheap) Soundcard to use with Cubase?



## ArtAt (Apr 8, 2022)

I recently had Cubase 11 Pro give me the silent treatment after plugging and unplugging my headphone jack several times and I was told both here and on the Cubase user forum that I can't do that when I'm running on the PC's built-in soundcard, even though I'm using the Generic Low Latency ASIO driver. I'm told problems like that will melt like dew in the summer sunshine if I get a decent dedicated sound card. So ...

I don’t need high fidelity - people listen to my music on mobile phones and cheap bluetooth speakers, so no real bass and 10% THD (and gobs and piles of IM) are realistic for auditioning. My speakers are a cheap Logitech package with two midrange/treble speakers on the wall and a subwoofer under the desk, and that’s fine. They use a standard 3.5 mm plug.
I’d like a good company that’s been around for awhile and is doing well so theyill stay around for a while to update drivers as I update to new versions or Windows or Cubase (right now I’m C11, Win 10) and provide good tech support.
I use my PC for many audio playback tasks - browsers (e.g., Youtube and Vimeo), editors such as Premiere Pro and Adobe Audition, other DAWs such as FL Studio, apps such as iTunes, etc. I don’t want to have to output to separate speakers for different applications. I know with some of the ASIO drivers that people have complained that when they switch to, say Youtube in a browser, that the browser doesn’t give up the audio stream when switching back to Cubase, regardless of how the checkbox for "allow ASIO host..." is set. I don’t want problems in either direction.
I don’t need to record audio with this card, so I don’t need mic inputs, preamps, etc.
I’d prefer to use a PCI slot to avoid USB latency, cable clutter, etc
I’d like a simple foolproof setup and trouble-free drivers.
I’d like the lowest cost that will satisfy the above. This rules out stuff like RME or anything called an "audio interface" with bells and whistles I don't need.

Thanks in advance!!


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## rrichard63 (Apr 8, 2022)

The main roadblock is going to be the objection to USB. I'm not aware that there's anything currently in production in PCI or PCIe format, except for RME and similar high-end stuff.


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## ArtAt (Apr 8, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> The main roadblock is going to be the objection to USB. I'm not aware that there's anything currently in production in PCI or PCIe format, except for RME and similar high-end stuff.


If there's no longer a latency problem, say with USB-3, then I could drop that requirement. My PC has 10 dedicated USB ports but I currently have 13 USB devices (via an expansion port) and some of them draw a lot of current such as my MIDI keyboards and external harddrives so I was trying to keep that down. But I still just want the vanilla functionality of a basic audio card to reliably output the audio stream without hiccups when changing say from browser audio to Cubase audio to Premiere Pro audio and back again, or when I switch from speakers to headphones.

Most of the USB devices I've seen are very fancy-schmancy with XLR connectors, preamps, phantom 48V power, all kinds of switches and buttons, etc, and they style themselves as "audio interfaces". That's overkill for my needs. All I need are decent DACs and a rock solid driver that's compatible with Cubase.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 8, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> All I need are decent DACs and a rock solid driver that's compatible with Cubase.


The Native Instruments Traktor Audio 2 MkII has been discontinued, but you might be able to find one somewhere. I would avoid the original model (without "MkII" in the name) because I once heard there were problems with it. I can't speak to the stability of NI's driver software. Might be fine, especially the MkII version.


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## Pier (Apr 8, 2022)

How good do you want your headphones amp to be?

What's your budget?


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## b_elliott (Apr 8, 2022)

Maybe something like this or larger model. 

You likely know Avid is industry tough so will handle any 64-bit audio with ease.

I've used an Mbox2 (solidly built, external, overkill for me) since 2015; no issues on Windows. Set it and forget it. Works seamlessly with any DAWs I've tried, any Native Inst standalone app recognizes MBox, VLC, Win Media Player, MUSE, etc, etc. Hoping this is not a waste of your time. 
Cheers, Bill


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## ArtAt (Apr 8, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> The Native Instruments Traktor Audio 2 MkII has been discontinued, but you might be able to find one somewhere. I would avoid the original model (without "MkII" in the name) because I once heard there were problems with it. I can't speak to the stability of NI's driver software. Might be fine, especially the MkII version.


If the product is discontinued then it's hard to imagine they're supporting it or updating drivers for it or that they will be for long.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 8, 2022)

Pier said:


> How good do you want your headphones amp to be?
> 
> What's your budget?


@ArtAt mentioned powered speakers but didn't mention headphones.


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## ArtAt (Apr 8, 2022)

Pier said:


> How good do you want your headphones amp to be?


I plug my headphones into my Logitech speakers so I can keep doing that.


Pier said:


> What's your budget?


As low as possible that will still give me what I specified. I don't need the sound *quality *to be any better than it is now. 

I just need a way to play all the sound that I currently play out of my PC without having to worry about plugging or unplugging headphones disrupting Cubase (which happened with the ASIO Low latency Driver) or having Cubase, my browser, Premiere Pro, etc, grabbing onto the audio stream and not letting go (as happened with ASIO4ALL). So I think it comes down to finding a card or audio device with a good ASIO driver. So what's the cheapest card with a good ASIO driver, or that works well with the existing ASIO driver?


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## ArtAt (Apr 8, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> @ArtAt mentioned powered speakers but didn't mention headphones.


I normally plug my headphones into the powered speakers' headphone jack. But last week I crashed Cubase by plugging them into my PC's headphone jack. And everybody here and on the Cubase forum yelled at me and said I can't do that with the built-in audio card in the PC even though I was using the Cubase Low latency ASIO driver.


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## ArtAt (Apr 8, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> Maybe something like this or larger model.
> 
> You likely know Avid is industry tough so will handle any 64-bit audio with ease.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip - it looks great but how solid is its ASIO driver and are they still supporting it - the product and the driver?


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## rrichard63 (Apr 8, 2022)

Experiences and opinions seem to vary with respect to the quality of driver software for USB interfaces. A lot of people swear by the Focusrite Scarlett series -- at least the most recent third generation models. (I own a second generation Scarlett 2i4 myself and have had zero problems with it, but it's on my laptop where I don't push it very hard.) But that could be only because so many people have Scarletts. The only manufacturer I can think of whose drivers are universally praised is RME.

If anybody reading this knows about a source of reliable information about USB driver stability, please speak up.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 8, 2022)

I have no information about M-Audio's current USB drivers, but if they are good enough then this would meet your specifications for $70.






M-Audio


Acclaimed audio interfaces, studio monitors, and keyboard controllers




www.m-audio.com


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## sundrowned (Apr 8, 2022)

It's probably worth saying there are no guarantees when it comes to real time audio. An interface that works perfectly for someone may not work that well for someone else, simply because there's some clash. So there are no guarantees. Especially in the budget end.

That said any of the well known brands should perform quite well.


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## MartinH. (Apr 8, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> I normally plug my headphones into the powered speakers' headphone jack. But last week I crashed Cubase by plugging them into my PC's headphone jack. And everybody here and on the Cubase forum yelled at me and said I can't do that with the built-in audio card in the PC even though I was using the Cubase Low latency ASIO driver.


If I may suggest an alternative to explore: maybe find out how the mechanism works that detects a headphone being plugged in at all. I believe it should be possible to just put something like a switch into the stereo out of your soundcard, plug your speakers and your headphones into the switch, and switch between them with the switch without the soundcard knowing that anything changed. That should prevent windows and cubase from freaking out I hope, but no guarantuees, I don't actually know how that headphone jack detects something being plugged in.


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## Pier (Apr 8, 2022)

If you're using Logitech speakers then yeah you don't really need anything fancy.

On the low end I have experience with this $80 ART audio interface. My nephew is using it with Studio One and AFAIK the ASIO drivers have been rock solid on Windows 10.



The other one you could check is the Presonus Go. Also $80. I don't have any experience with it but Presonus has been in the game for a long time so I'd be surprised if the drivers weren't solid.



If you can stretch your budget to $130 the Audient Evo 4 is better audio quality than the previous ones.



If you can go up to $200 I'd go with the Motu M2 or the Audient iD4 mk2 which are really very good for the price.


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## b_elliott (Apr 8, 2022)

FWIW - I set up Reaktor 6 yesterday. It recognized automatically driver = ASIO and device = Avid Mbox ASIO 64 bit. 
MBox has worked since day 1 without issue on Win7 and Win10. Driver remains supported on Avid's website.


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## ArtAt (Apr 8, 2022)

I'd like to get some feedback about how well some of these proposed solutions work with Cubase, especially if I also want to play browser audio (e.g., Youtube or Vimeo), or iTunes or Premiere Pro, etc. I'm willing to only play audio from one at a time but I'm *not* willing to shut down the other apps.

The reason why I ask is because I never had any problems with FL Studio but I had several problems with Cubase not playing well with other audio sources, and on the Cubase forums problems with ASIO drivers are reported frequently. So I get the impression that Cubase is more "sensitive" to driver or audio stream problems than other DAWs.


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## Pier (Apr 8, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> I'd like to get some feedback about how well some of these proposed solutions work with Cubase, especially if I also want to play browser audio (e.g., Youtube or Vimeo), or iTunes or Premiere Pro, etc. I'm willing to only play audio from one at a time but I'm *not* willing to shut down the other apps.
> 
> The reason why I ask is because I never had any problems with FL Studio but I had several problems with Cubase not playing well with other audio sources, and on the Cubase forums problems with ASIO drivers are reported frequently. So I get the impression that Cubase is more "sensitive" to driver or audio stream problems than other DAWs.


I'm currently using an Audient iD4 mk1 on Windows 10. I can use Cubase while watching Youtube videos on Chrome. I'd be surprised if this wasn't the case for most audio interfaces.

I've had it for about 6 years now and it's been rock solid on both Windows and macOS.


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## odod (Apr 8, 2022)

the Steinberg UR22MKII would be enough


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## ArtAt (Apr 9, 2022)

odod said:


> the Steinberg UR22MKII would be enough


Enough? I thinks it's way overkill. As I said, I don't need any input or recording capability *at all*. (I have a complete professional field recording setup I use in my filmmaking projects). So why should I be paying for the UR22MKII's XLR inputs, 24-Bit/192 kHz & Two Class-A D-PRE mic preamps, 48V phantom power, MIDI inputs, level controls, larger footprint on my cluttered desk, etc, etc? It's $169 on Amazon and I'll bet 70% of that price goes to features I don't need or use.

I just need a way to output an audio stream from my PC that plays well with my DAWs (FL Studio and Cubase) and the other audio sources on the PC. I think that's going to come down to the driver. In the online reviews of these products everyone talks about the *features* and no one talks about the *drivers*.


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## ArtAt (Apr 9, 2022)

Pier said:


> I'm currently using an Audient iD4 mk1 on Windows 10. I can use Cubase while watching Youtube videos on Chrome. I'd be surprised if this wasn't the case for most audio interfaces.
> 
> I've had it for about 6 years now and it's been rock solid on both Windows and macOS.


It describes itself as "2-in/2-out USB-C Audio Interface". What does the "2-in / 2-out" mean?


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## odod (Apr 9, 2022)

Behringer is your choice or maybe a Chinese sound-card from Alibaba would do for you .. like this one









6.43US $ 31% OFF|Ugreen Sound Card Usb Audio Interface External 3.5mm Microphone Audio Adapter Soundcard For Pc Ps5 4 Headphone Usb Sound Adapter - Sound Cards - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com













12.91US $ 34% OFF|Pci Sound Card 5.1ch 5.1 Channel Cmi8738 Chipset Audio Interface Pci-e 5.1 Stereo Digital Card Desktop Soundcard - Sound Cards - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com





and yet you do not understand what 2io is .. good luck for your search


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## ArtAt (Apr 9, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> It describes itself as "2-in/2-out USB-C Audio Interface". What does the "2-in / 2-out" mean?





odod said:


> and yet you do not understand what 2io is .. good luck for your search


Why would I understand it if I never needed to buy a product like this before? Why don't you explain it instead of being snarky? Does being snarky make you feel cool?

Anyway, as I said in the OP, I want to buy from an established company that's got a good track record of support and driver updates, so that rules out most Chinese gear on Alibaba.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 9, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> In the online reviews of these products everyone talks about the *features* and no one talks about the *drivers*.


This is indeed the crux of the problem. We all live with it -- at least all of us who use Windows (I believe that Mac's OS is less problematic for audio). But there's no way to measure driver stability that is both objective and practical.

If I were you, I would learn to live with the presence of some features -- microphone/guitar inputs, loopback, MIDI -- I don't plan to use. Three of the brands that seem to get praised most often in discussions of driver quality are Audient, Focusrite and Steinberg.


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## PaulieDC (Apr 9, 2022)

I’ve owned countless audio interfaces over the years, and there are three that I still own where the ASIO drivers work flawlessly with Cubase (still own and use these). Each one however has something that doesn’t fit your criteria, but it gives you a feel for what’s out there and you can count on the drivers.

RME Babyface Pro FS: undisputed winner in drivers and sound quality but way out of your price range at $949. However, it’s best in class and the benchmark of solid drivers, mentioning it only for that reason.
Apogee One: I use this on my gaming laptop with Cubase, Premiere, WaveLab and Apogee’s drivers are rock solid. It’s lightweight and tiny, and if you need to plug in a mic, the XLR is an included dongle. That’s the part I like, how tiny it is, so the xlr dongle is a plus to me. This one almost fits your criteria except it’s $275, but rock solid drivers and audio is going to have a price tag. They may have just discontinued this model but they are still available from a lot of dealers. Apogee still supports interfaces they stopped making 9 years ago, not a problem there… Small USA company with great support.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QR6Z1JB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen): Got this a month ago to use as a sound card for my laptop on my desk at home, but decided to put it through the wringer with Cubase 12 Pro. Wow. For $119 this little bugger can run with the big boys. ASIO drivers are rock solid with Cubase, sound quality is great and build quality is stellar. Solid aluminum, totally shielded and even the volume knob feels like it’s on an expensive unit. Only problem is for your criteria, it's in a metal box and has an XLR jack, but it’s quite small vs everything else out there. I don't believe the smaller Presonus AudioBox Go is an option, it's in a plastic unshielded case and the S/N Ratio is only 90db, less than an audio CD.


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## Pier (Apr 9, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> It describes itself as "2-in/2-out USB-C Audio Interface". What does the "2-in / 2-out" mean?


It means it has 2 inputs and 2 outputs.

I know you don't want to record but there are no interfaces without inputs. At least not from any of the popular manufacturers.

The Volt 1 from UA has a single input.

Edit:

There are DACs out there for headphones and hifi aficionados but I haven't found any with ASIO drivers.


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## kitekrazy (Apr 9, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> FWIW - I set up Reaktor 6 yesterday. It recognized automatically driver = ASIO and device = Avid Mbox ASIO 64 bit.
> MBox has worked since day 1 without issue on Win7 and Win10. Driver remains supported on Avid's website.


It's rare that a discontinued M-Audio product with W7 drivers ever fail to work. I still have an AP192, 2496 that still work. Even my FW410 still works if I wanted to add that. Then there is the Original Oxygen 8 working. The value of use has exceeded their original price tag. I wish I could say that for my Tascam 822 Pci and SW1000XG. Plus kudos for Microsoft for legacy support. If I went Apple I would have more doorstops.


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## kitekrazy (Apr 9, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> Why would I understand it if I never needed to buy a product like this before? Why don't you explain it instead of being snarky? Does being snarky make you feel cool?
> 
> Anyway, as I said in the OP, I want to buy from an established company that's got a good track record of support and driver updates, so that rules out most Chinese gear on Alibaba.


I didn't see it as snarky. Being defensive is not a good way to present yourself in this forum when people are being helpful. You seem to be somewhat new to this DAW madness and don't want to make expensive mistakes like I did. With a little more knowledge you might reevaluate your expectations or how you do things. 
No audio interfaces exist without inputs. Even a computer onboard sound has inputs. Hust about every audio device has midi inputs/outputs and many of us don't even use those. All of these are recommendations. There is a possibility that you grow with experience the audio hardware may not be enough.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 9, 2022)

kitekrazy said:


> It's rare that a discontinued M-Audio product with W7 drivers ever fail to work.





kitekrazy said:


> No audio interfaces exist without inputs


Well, M-Audio has an interface without inputs and it's not discontinued:






M-Audio


Acclaimed audio interfaces, studio monitors, and keyboard controllers




www.m-audio.com





If enough other folks can vouch for the drivers (I can't), then it's a $70 solution to @ArtAt's problem.


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## Pier (Apr 9, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Well, M-Audio has an interface without inputs and it's not discontinued:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Huh look at that. I didn't know this one existed.

Although I have to say it doesn't inspire any confidence. There are no specs on the website. People on Amazon complaining about the headphone amp, etc.

For $80 the Presonus Go might be a better choice.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 9, 2022)

Pier said:


> For $80 the Presonus Go might be a better choice.


I would certainly look at this one for myself. Other Presonus gear that I've had was reliable, but the only interface of theirs I've used was Firewire rather than USB. The OP wants (a) driver software with a reputation like RME combined with (b) no inputs or MIDI. As far as we know that doesn't exist, so something has to give.


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## Pier (Apr 9, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> The OP wants (a) driver software with a reputation like RME combined with (b) no inputs or MIDI. As far as we know that doesn't exist, so something has to give.


And also super cheap 😂

I wish RME would make that interface. There's so many people working 100% in the box these days that it'd make total sense to release that kind of product.


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## ArtAt (Apr 9, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> This is indeed the crux of the problem. We all live with it -- at least all of us who use Windows (I believe that Mac's OS is less problematic for audio). But there's no way to measure driver stability that is both objective and practical.
> 
> If I were you, I would learn to live with the presence of some features -- microphone/guitar inputs, loopback, MIDI -- I don't plan to use. Three of the brands that seem to get praised most often in discussions of driver quality are Audient, Focusrite and Steinberg.


I think that's the direction I'm leaning just to keep it all in the (Steinberg) family. On the Cubase forums there are raging debates about ASIO drivers, so I hope that by using a Steinberg product I'll at least have a driver that everyone's happy with. But there's a current thread in that forum where one guy is insisting that the Steinberg Generic Low Latency ASIO driver is simply incapable of playing audio from more than one source, e.g., Youtube AND Cubase and that you must use ASIO4ALL to do that, even though that's exactly the opposite of my experience. There's simply WAY too much murky black magic in these discussions to know what's objectively true.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 9, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> But there's no way to measure driver stability that is both objective and practical.





ArtAt said:


> There's simply WAY too much murky black magic in these discussions to know what's objectively true


It's not black magic, exactly. The problem is that there are too many combinations of hardware and software variables to make doing apples-to-apples comparisons feasible at reasonable cost. I think this problem goes back to the beginnings of the Windows operating system.

If it works on your system, use it. Otherwise, try something else. And keep trying until you find something that does work. Yes, that can get expensive. But so is a Macintosh.

My personal odyssey only ended when (1) I gave up on USB for my studio computer and bought Firewire gear (Presonus, RME) and (2) I routed my Windows system audio (e.g. YouTube, etc.) and ASIO (DAWs, etc.) to two different hardware devices. I use a monitor controller with multiple inputs to select one or the other. Still not perfect but way better than anything I've tried before.


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## markleake (Apr 9, 2022)

Dunno about Steinberg audio interfaces, but any Focusrite Scarlett is going to be fine for sharing audio between your DAW and other applications. They've been doing that for over a decade now. I use my old Scarlett 2i4 Gen 1 with Cubase and other applications simultaneously, and it's fine. Never had an issue with it. And the Gen 3s will be even more stable. They are solidly built, reliable, have great sound quality, knobs are good quality, etc.

The Scarlett Solo would be a serious contender for you.

I'd avoid the cheaper Behringer products. I've had issues with power supplies (presumably the capacitors) eventually dying on earlier versions of their products.

Also, a general note on PCI cards vs. USB.... latency with USB has not been a problem with audio since USB 2. Any concern in this regard is very old school, unless you are pushing a fair few audio channels. This is why PCI card type products don't really exist anymore. Putting audio electronics inside an electrically noisy environment like a PC is never a good idea!

Can't you just buy whatever best suits in terms of an audio interface, but if you find it doesn't work for your specific use case, return it?


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## odod (Apr 9, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> Why would I understand it if I never needed to buy a product like this before? Why don't you explain it instead of being snarky? Does being snarky make you feel cool?
> 
> Anyway, as I said in the OP, I want to buy from an established company that's got a good track record of support and driver updates, so that rules out most Chinese gear on Alibaba.


You ask something and so many of users already tried to help by answering, and your term "CHEAP" is different for everyone .. please don't justify, and I hope you also realize that almost every soundcard now are made in CHINA?

Maybe you can use your built in soundcard instead, which is still have an I/O of course.

And if you have time you can always watch youtube videos suggested by some members here, and perhaps going to a music store to hear and experience directly.

I am not trying to be snarky here.


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## ArtAt (Apr 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> If it works on your system, use it. Otherwise, try something else. And keep trying until you find something that does work. Yes, that can get expensive. But so is a Macintosh.


I don't have time for that. I'm 69 and I have cancer so I want to spend my precious time making music, not being an IT propeller head.

I do video production, too, using Premiere Pro. A tool like Premiere Pro is similar in size and complexity to a DAW, and just like a DAW it has all kinds of complicated relationships with drivers and 3rd-party plugins and tools, etc. But I've never had this level of configuration problems with it. Partly because Adobe TELLS you what you need. Recently after a P.P. update Adobe put a message on my screen telling me my video driver was out of date. But because Adobe could detect what OS I was on, and what video card I had installed, the message included a link to the correct video driver on the NVidia website and instructions on how to install it!



> My personal odyssey only ended when (1) I gave up on USB for my studio computer and bought Firewire gear (Presonus, RME) and (2) I routed my Windows system audio (e.g. YouTube, etc.) and ASIO (DAWs, etc.) to two different hardware devices. I use a monitor controller with multiple inputs to select one or the other. Still not perfect but way better than anything I've tried before.


That sounds extreme both in terms of the time and money you had to spend and the result you settled on. I don't think most DAW users end up there. What was it about your system or requirements that resulted in that instead of the simpler solutions people are suggesting for me?


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## ArtAt (Apr 10, 2022)

markleake said:


> Also, a general note on PCI cards vs. USB.... latency with USB has not been a problem with audio since USB 2. Any concern in this regard is very old school, unless you are pushing a fair few audio channels.


What does 'channel' mean in this context? Everything in the DAW gets mixed down to one audio stream in the final mix, and that's what gets output to audio, so isn't that just one channel?

I may have other audio sources on the PC, such as iTunes or a browser, but I won't be playing them *at the same time*. The problem I was having with ASIO4ALL was that one source would grab control of a stream and not let go after it no longer had the focus. So if I played some music in Cubase, played some Vimeo in a browser then stopped the Vimeo playback when I went back to Cubase there would be no sound in Cubase unless I went into Task Manager and killed the browser. I didn't have this problem with the generic Low Latency ASIO driver




markleake said:


> Can't you just buy whatever best suits in terms of an audio interface, but if you find it doesn't work for your specific use case, return it?


I don't have time for that. I'm trying to produce some music. I'm retired from being a geek.

Some people just love to experiment and tinker but I'm not one of those. My brother's hobby is rebuilding old Triumph motor cars. He spends a lot of time buying old parts or machining new ones and swapping things out and doing test drives. But he doesn't drive them very often for commuting or shopping. I drive a Subaru Forester because I need the AWD for some roads that I drive on. I take it to the shop for maintenance even though I know how to change fluids and brakepads, because I don't want to spend my time on that and I want reliable transportation. A DAW is just a tool and I want a reliable tool for making music.


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## ArtAt (Apr 10, 2022)

odod said:


> You ask something and so many of users already tried to help by answering, and your term "CHEAP" is different for everyone .. please don't justify, and I hope you also realize that almost every soundcard now are made in CHINA?


Everything is made in China but whether you get support and updates is a question of the company, not where the factory is. I want to buy a product by a company that's been around for awhile and has a reputation for good support.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 10, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> What does 'channel' mean in this context? Everything in the DAW gets mixed down to one audio stream in the final mix, and that's what gets output to audio, so isn't that just one channel?


A stereo signal is two "channels". One "channel" would be a monophonic signal.


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## ArtAt (Apr 10, 2022)

Just to put this thread out of its misery I've ordered the UR22MkII to keep it all in the family and hopefully mimimise driver problems that way. I expect to have it by the end of the week.

Thanks to everyone for all your advice and opinions.

Everyone have a good day!


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## ArtAt (Apr 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> A stereo signal is two "channels". One "channel" would be a monophonic signal.


So what did he mean by "a fair few audio channels"? Can Cubase output surround sound or 5.1?


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## kitekrazy (Apr 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Well, M-Audio has an interface without inputs and it's not discontinued:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is interesting. 



This is no longer available but it reminds me of a dongle.


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## kitekrazy (Apr 10, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> Just to put this thread out of its misery I've ordered the UR22MkII to keep it all in the family and hopefully mimimise driver problems that way. I expect to have it by the end of the week.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for all your advice and opinions.
> 
> Everyone have a good day!


 I have one. It is a good choice.


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## kitekrazy (Apr 10, 2022)

Pier said:


> And also super cheap 😂
> *
> I wish RME would make that interface.* There's so many people working 100% in the box these days that it'd make total sense to release that kind of product.


All of the money I spent on "cheap" audio interfaces at least cost the price of a Babyface. My first real interface was a Yamaha SW1000XG which was about the same price as a RME Hammerfall. Yamaha is the king of doorstops when it comes to DAW hardware.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 10, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> So what did he mean by "a fair few audio channels"? Can Cubase output surround sound or 5.1?


I don't know about Cubase specifically, but many DAWs do have surround outputs. And a lot of professional audio work is in surround formats.


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## Pier (Apr 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> I don't know about Cubase specifically, but many DAWs do have surround outputs. And a lot of professional audio work is in surround formats.


Yeah of course Cubase has support for surround. Atmos is coming this year I believe.


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## markleake (Apr 10, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> Just to put this thread out of its misery I've ordered the UR22MkII to keep it all in the family and hopefully mimimise driver problems that way. I expect to have it by the end of the week.


Good choice. Although I would add that this idea of a Steinberg brand interface being best for Cubase is not really a thing. Steinberg just wants you to think that.



ArtAt said:


> So what did he mean by "a fair few audio channels"? Can Cubase output surround sound or 5.1?


Think of it as the number of things you plug into the interface - concurrent inputs and outputs. i.e. each speaker, each mic, etc. Stereo out is two channels. Number of apps running doesn't matter (all route through to stereo out). Number of DAW channels doesn't matter (except for the I/O channels).

Edit: For reference... USB 2 allows up to 42 channels at 48 kHz.


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## LA68 (Apr 13, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> The main roadblock is going to be the objection to USB. I'm not aware that there's anything currently in production in PCI or PCIe format, except for RME and similar high-end stuff.


The ESI MAYA44 eX is still in production, they always had some PCI / PCIe card in their product lineup.

Edit: Might be worth to mention if someone ever looks for this, but there's probably not a lot of demand. Edited the USB recommendation because I missed that the OP made his decision already.


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## Pier (Apr 13, 2022)

LA68 said:


> The ESI MAYA44 eX is still in production, they always had some PCI / PCIe card in their product lineup.
> 
> Edit: Might be worth to mention if someone ever looks for this, but there's probably not a lot of demand. Edited the USB recommendation because I missed that the OP made his decision already.


Oh wow I think I haven't heard about ESI in like 15 years. It seems their product lineup hasn't changed either in all that time.


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## LA68 (Apr 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> Oh wow I think I haven't heard about ESI in like 15 years. It seems their product lineup hasn't changed either in all that time.


Oh yeah, I find it suprising, think I've seen like 2 reviews in the last few years and no ads or endorsements or anything at all. But they seem to be doing just fine somehow and their products are always available.

I kinda like that they didn't change that much. They seem to support their products for quite a long time, there's still W10 drivers for the original MAYA (from...2005 or so?). Can't really say that about other budget-oriented brands that I bought stuff from, like for example M-Audio.


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## Pictus (Apr 13, 2022)

Gearspace.com - View Single Post - Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base


Post 15796206 -Forum for professional and amateur recording engineers to share techniques and advice.



gearspace.com








PreSonus improved the USB driver for the PreSonus Studio line








Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base - Page 172 - Gearspace.com


On a 2011 Mac Mini 2.5Ghz 8GB RAM, I repeated what I did with a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP. (stereo TRS cheapo cable [a different cable than last post though] from Outputs 1 & 2 into Inputs 1 & 2). Setting in the MixControl app was the 'low latency' mode, using Loop 1 and 2. Again, I'm not...



gearspace.com


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## hlecedre (Apr 14, 2022)

You can't put "good" and "cheap" together. Once you find out what's good you realize it's not going to be cheap. I suppose what would be more appropriate is what is good and cheap for you as your expectations will dictate the answer to this. With that being said, I've owned the Steinberg UR22MkII. I think it's great for beginner, MIDI, and mobile users who are very budget conscious but ultimately it's not a studio worthy A/D D/A converter. I've upgraded to the Lynx Hilo and its been everything and more as a worthy A/D D/A converter and DAW interface for Cubase and my studio monitor setup.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 14, 2022)

It's too late now for the OP, but I just found this:





__





Behringer | Product | MONITOR2USB







www.behringer.com





No inputs, but a good feature set for monitoring. But its usefulness to anybody depends, as always, on drivers.


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## LA68 (Apr 14, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> It's too late now for the OP, but I just found this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There seem to be no specific drivers for this one, unfortunately. :/


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## José Herring (Apr 14, 2022)

LA68 said:


> The ESI MAYA44 eX is still in production, they always had some PCI / PCIe card in their product lineup.
> 
> Edit: Might be worth to mention if someone ever looks for this, but there's probably not a lot of demand. Edited the USB recommendation because I missed that the OP made his decision already.



a solid choice that often gets overlooked.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 14, 2022)

LA68 said:


> There seem to be no specific drivers for this one, unfortunately. :/


If it's truly class compliant, that might be a good thing. I don't really know whether being "class compliant" says anything about stability.

EDIT - the next post reminds that "class compliant" means you need Asio4All for low latency monitoring.


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## José Herring (Apr 14, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> If it's truly class compliant, that might be a good thing. I don't really know whether being "class compliant" says anything about stability.





LA68 said:


> There seem to be no specific drivers for this one, unfortunately. :/


It uses Asio4All but it apparently is very good and specs out quite surprisingly high. I just can't bring myself to trust it or even to buy another Behringer product for some reason. The Behringer stigma is real in me.


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## LA68 (Apr 14, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I uses Asio4All but it apparently is very good and specs out quite surprisingly high. I just can't bring myself to trust it or even to buy another Behringer product for some reason. The Behringer stigma is real in me.


Hm, I honestly didn't have a lot of bad experiences with Behringer, think they really upped their game in the last few years.

What's most interesting for me about this one is the crossfeed knob. It's their only product that has this feature, but they probably just didn't have enough time yet to be "inspired" by other SPL products.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 14, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I uses Asio4All but it apparently is very good and specs out quite surprisingly high. I just can't bring myself to trust it or even to buy another Behringer product for some reason. The Behringer stigma is real in me.


If I recall correctly, the OP was having trouble with Asio4All and that's part of what got him started on this adventure in the first place.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 14, 2022)

LA68 said:


> What's most interesting for me about this one is the crossfeed knob.


That caught my eye as well. Having binaural crossfeed outside the box would solve some routing problems for me. But the only adjustment it has is a more/less control. Nothing about the listener's head size or the simulated angle between the speakers -- both included in some binaural plugins.


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## LA68 (Apr 14, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> That caught my eye as well. Having binaural crossfeed outside the box would solve some routing problems for me. But the only adjustment it has is a more/less control. Nothing about the listener's head size or the simulated angle between the speakers -- both included in some binaural plugins.


Yeah, Isone etc definitely have this, as does the "big" Phonitor. I guess that Behringer maybe did here what SPL does with their smaller Phonitor models (as well as the box that Behringer copied here). Idk?

"The Phonitor Matrix in its largest expansion stage has three setting parameters: Crossfeed, Speaker Angle and Center Level.

In the Phonitor One, the center level is preset to -1 dB and the speaker angle to 30°. These are the most commonly used values."


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## Vladinemir (May 21, 2022)

markleake said:


> Scarlett 2i4 Gen 1


What Windows version are you using? I have 2i2 gen 1 and read that people have problems in W10. Mine works fine in W8 but with v2 or v3 driver. V4 driver crashes and causes BSOD. I wonder if there will be problems if I upgrade PC and use W10/11.
For example


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## markleake (May 21, 2022)

Vladinemir said:


> What Windows version are you using? I have 2i2 gen 1 and read that people have problems in W10. Mine works fine in W8 but with v2 or v3 driver. V4 driver crashes and cause BSOD. I wonder if there will be problems if I upgrade PC and use W10/11.
> For example



Windows 10. I can't remember what driver version, and can't check currently, sorry.


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## Paul Grymaud (May 21, 2022)

Behringer UMC404HD​I have had it for six months. Never had a single problem. 5 minutes to take it out of the box and make the connections, 3 minutes to start my first recording... Since then, no problem at all and no latency. I work with CUBASE 11. Before, I was working with MOTU 2408 MK2. Frequent problems and as the card did not fit in my new PC I had to change. Here, no need for a card. Just plug & play ! Very complete front and back panel connections. 24-Bit/192 kHz USB Audio/MIDI Interface with Midas Mic Preamplifiers. Price, about $170

Have fun !


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## RogiervG (May 21, 2022)

cheap? use the one that comes with the motherboard (built in). Use a generic asio driver, and get making music. 
If you want more robustness (lower latency, better DA/AD, etc etc) you can go from any commodity interface (around 100-ish bucks) to very high end (above 1000 bucks) and anything in between.
Many many choices given your list. But you don't provide a budget.
Just look up webshops for interfaces and research them (reviews in both written and video/audio etc), look at the specs and compare. Everyone can name one interface, he/she knows or heard of. But in the end it's YOU who needs to choose.


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## rrichard63 (May 21, 2022)

ArtAt said:


> rrichard63 said:
> 
> 
> > My personal odyssey only ended when (1) I gave up on USB for my studio computer and bought Firewire gear (Presonus, RME) and (2) I routed my Windows system audio (e.g. YouTube, etc.) and ASIO (DAWs, etc.) to two different hardware devices. I use a monitor controller with multiple inputs to select one or the other. Still not perfect but way better than anything I've tried before.
> ...


I apologize for missing this question when it was asked over a month ago. A large part of the answer is that I didn't understand the problem(s) well enough at the time to find a simpler, cheaper solution. A smaller part of the answer is that, when I started out, I envisioned my DAW computer as embedded in a studio with a lot of outboard gear and microphones. Wanting a lot of I/O (including a 24 track digital recorder), plus bad experience with multiple sets of USB drivers (this was years ago), led me to discover RME. My Multiface II + Digiface rig was somewhat expensive (even used on eBay) but has proven itself worth the money. I hope these interfaces never die.

My current motherboard has an optical digital output, which I use for Windows system audio. It's connected to an optical input on my monitor controller (a Presonus Central Station). This arrangement means that I have to switch between DAW output and Windows system audio and can't monitor them both at the same time. Most of the time that's an advantage rather than a disadvantage; Windows can make whatever noises it wants without interrupting my DAW session. It's a disadvantage only when I want to refer to a Youtube video or Soundcloud while in a DAW session.

This arrangement means that I never have to deal with mismatched sample rates, buffer sizes, etc. between Windows and DAWs. They're completely separate. RME's software is pretty good about these issues, but in my experience not perfect.


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## ScoringFilm (Sep 27, 2022)

Pier said:


> I know you don't want to record but there are no interfaces without inputs. At least not from any of the popular manufacturers.


M Audio Air Hub?


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## Pier (Sep 27, 2022)

ScoringFilm said:


> M Audio Air Hub?


Huh look at that!

Thanks for the correction


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## John Longley (Oct 13, 2022)

I would accept USB and buy a used RME baby face according to budget. You can get a blue first version for very little and the drivers are still updated. If you can swing a newer gen, great but for very little those blue ones are hard to beat.


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