# Which Sequencer and Why?



## Hans Adamson (Mar 29, 2006)

I need to get a new sequencer. I want intuitive and easy to use. I had Logic for PC, but never used it because of I never got the Diploma.  

What are you using? Strengths? User friendly? etc. etc.

Thanks,


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## José Herring (Mar 29, 2006)

Depends on what you want to do really Hans.

I use Cubase SX. It's great. It's big brother Nuendo is based on the same code and is great for midi, audio, post production and video handling.

If you're not that worried about picture then Sonar is great. It can do picture scoring too but I don't think it was originally meant for it so it may be a tad behind in that area but perhaps not.

Also, if you're on a budget then Cubase SL is great.

I also hear that Fruity Loops is pretty cool too believe it or not. Though I think it's mostly for record production as well as Ableton Live which I'm finding handles the loop stuff great, but I never use the midi part of it.

Give more info on budget and what you want to do and I can help you set up a great system as well as many others here.

Best,

Jose


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 29, 2006)

Thanks Jose,

I just checked out Cubase SX3. I didn't see any midi event editor of "score" type a la old C-lab Notator. Does any of the newer sequencers have such interface for the midi parts? - I would like to view what is going on in the form of a score, and simultaneously be able to manipulate events in an event editor.


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## Frederick Russ (Mar 29, 2006)

You don't need a diploma for Logic 7 - but you will need a Mac 

Unlike most I really never wanted change. Because I was going to work in a situation using Macs and later Digidesign Pro Tools I left my Cakewalk PC and went to Digital Performer instead. To this day I still don't know how to use DP optimally - I'm sure its a great sequencer but I found it pretty unintuitive although some thrive in this environment.

It was quite different learning Logic though. I converted to it because I wanted the least expensive way to get VSL without having to invest in another PC or two to run Giga. Since Logic had exs24 and VSL was available in exs24 it made sense at the time. I can't speak for everyone but personally it was the best choice for me - the scoring protocol is probably one of the best available. I love the midi implementation and the program overall is very intuitive despite the early horror stories of Logic. To me Logic/G5 is really a marriage made in heaven - but I admit this route is probably not for everyone.


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## José Herring (Mar 29, 2006)

Hans Adamson @ Wed Mar 29 said:


> Thanks Jose,
> 
> I just checked out Cubase SX3. I didn't see any midi event editor of "score" type a la old C-lab Notator. Does any of the newer sequencers have such interface for the midi parts? - I would like to view what is going on in the form of a score, and simultaneously be able to manipulate events in an event editor.



I would just open up the Cubase score editor and either the event editor or the key editor. With the curser cued to tell you the location it's pretty easy to tell what's going on.

I did an arrangement for Universal records using live players so I decided that I would arrange the entire song using the notation features in Cubase. Cubase has really great notation features and I ended up just printing the parts directly from the sequencer because I didn't want to blow my whole load on a copyist. Boy those guys really get ya with their unions and all.

Best,

Jose


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 29, 2006)

Tx Frederick,

It would be interesting to hear from people who switched platform, why they did, etc.

Doesn't Sonar include scoring to video?


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## choc0thrax (Mar 29, 2006)

I went from Super Dooper Music Looper to Cubase SL. I enjoy the added features in Cubase that I don't use, but miss painting in guitar and drums in music looper. Strangely in music looper I found all my songs sounded somewhat similar.


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## Thonex (Mar 29, 2006)

You'll get another Nuendo/Cubase vote from me too. And yes, you can have multiple editors (scoring, list, key, drum etc.) open at the same time and all the editors follow along with the song cursor or even if you select a note in the score window.. the same note will be selected in the Key editor.

Reasons to get Cubase/Nuendo:

-It's Mac and PC,
-IMO it's the most intuitive.
-It has full latency compensation at every stage for audio... even external inserts (like -your analogue gear) can be used 100% phase coherently.
-Macros!!!! This is huge Hans. I can't tell you how much faster I can edit things  because of Macros. Basically they are programmable sequences of Key Commands.
-Mixed Bit depth on projects. You don't have to be either 16 bit or 24 bit or 32 bit.. you -can be have all different bit depths loaded in the same project... and also .wav,aif, Bwav etc...
-It loads REX files beautifully
-Tempo mapping is a breeze.
-Locking to picture is a breeze

It is VERY deep if you want it to...everything can be controlled from a midi control surface.... even Key Commands.

The list goes on.

My opinion.

T


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## fictionmusic (Mar 29, 2006)

I have been using Logic since it was called Creator (way back when a 1 mb ram Atari was a big deal) Since then I have followed it from Logic Audio all the way to Logic Pro 7.1.1 I love it (so much so that I still have my Atari in use as well as Logic 3.5 on a Power PC) and am totally used to it. 

I have done charts for orchestra on it for years (and some pretty esoteric ea pieces as well with some strange scores) and I edit in score mode a lot, but appreciate the ease of use of all the other editors. 

Logic has some excellent built-in instruments (a very usable organ and e pno, as well as a bunch of excellent synths..especially Sculpture, a really cool drum synth and as Frederick has mentioned the sampler EXS-24) I use the exs a lot and still prefer it over Kontackt etc.

Lately I have bought a PC laptop and have been also using Live which is great for what it does, but it doesn't hold a candle to Logic. I also have a version of Sonar and it is pretty cool...much like Logic in fact. I used Digital Performer at another studio and didn't really find it to my tastes although it did all the same things. I also have used Pro-Tools and although it now has midi capabilities, I much prefer Logic.

Basically, I'd say all the top platforms are pretty similar and all do about the same thing, they just go about it differantly. If you still use Notator or Creator (you do use the 1040 right?) then Logic won't be too unfamiliar, and you can create key commands that are identical.


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## fictionmusic (Mar 29, 2006)

oh another thing about Logic..it has some excellent au plugs bundled with. Its compressor is one of my favorites, Space Designer works a charm, and the ring modulator is killer. It has some great eqs etc.etc. All in all I think it probably the most versatile host around, although I have heartd some others say they find it hard to learn.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 29, 2006)

You know, I wouldn't rule out Pro Tools LE if you're looking for a sequencer that's easy to use. While I was reviewing PT7 I tried hard to think of a reason not to use it for composition, and I really couldn't.

That's not to say that I do, because I'm used to Logic at the moment. But PT is very simple and intuitive. I use it for a lot of things all the time.

However, I think you could also learn Logic pretty easily. The thing about it is that 95% of the weird things about it - the ones that give it the reputation for being hard to learn - are the ones you encounter while first getting into the program: getting audio through that mixer, all the objects, setting up multitimbral instruments, etc.


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 30, 2006)

I am still standing between Cubase SX3 and Samplitude Professional (like a donkey between two heaps of hay). Samplitude may not have as a full set of midi sequencing features, but maybe it has what I need?

I havent done any midi sequencing for a long time, so I don't know the basic workflow possible nowadays that well. Shouldn't record, edit a few notes here and there, draw in a few midi cc curves, quantizing if needed - be enough???

Is the MORE nowadays?


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## José Herring (Mar 30, 2006)

Midi sequencing hasn't changed in several years. So that shouldn't be a concern for you. The only thing that's really changed are the inplementation of plugins. If Samplitude isn't really equipt to handle VI's effeciently and simply then it could be a bit of a nightmare using midi. I don't know anything about samplitude other than about a year ago I looked into it and found that it was lacking in the midi department. Or, perhaps inorder to get midi you had to pay an addition grand or something. I don't remember what it was that turned me off to it other than I know it was midi related and not audio. The audio in Samplitude kicks butt.

Cubase is a great program. If you're planning on working with midi and notation it's designed for that. I still think that midi and notation are afterthoughts for samplitude. The more I use Cubase the more I realize that it's really unbelievable and stable. It took me a while to get into it and even as of last week it was a chore to write music with it. But, I tweeked a few settings and got it to look more like DP, which is a program I'm more familiar with, and it's unbelievably flexible in how you can arrange the elements where as other sequencers and kind of set up in their own way.

Jose


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 30, 2006)

> Tried Pro Tools 6.x = caca
> Heard 7.0 is much better



PT 6.x is missing some important MIDI features, yes, but it's certainly not unqualified caca as a production program! I assume you're just talking about using it as a composition program, right?

And actually, I don't agree that DP is unintuitive. On the contrary.

But this is all subjective.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 30, 2006)

What has changed, Hans, is that you may have billions of articulations and programs cued up to move those few notes between. Things are moving in the opposite direction in some ways, following the Vienna Instruments player's lead, but most composers have an ever-increasing collection of libraries.

So you need to be able to deal with a large template efficiently. I don't know whether Samplitude can do that or not. Cubase and Nuendo certainly can.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 30, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> > Tried Pro Tools 6.x = caca
> > Heard 7.0 is much better
> 
> 
> ...



Yes Nick, I meant as a full midi/audio composing/production tool.

I hear 7.0 is much better though.


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## jamriding (Mar 30, 2006)

Another convert to Logic (I previously had Digital Performer). Like Frederick I went for it because I wanted to use VSL Pro Edition. Now they have Vienna Instruments it perhaps makes my move unnecessary: never mind... It's still a beast to learn properly but then I'm just far too lazy!

P.S. Your pianos sounds *great* in Logic BTW.


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 30, 2006)

jamriding @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> Another convert to Logic (I previously had Digital Performer). Like Frederick I went for it because I wanted to use VSL Pro Edition. Now they have Vienna Instruments it perhaps makes my move unnecessary: never mind... It's still a beast to learn properly but then I'm just far too lazy!
> 
> P.S. Your pianos sounds *great* in Logic BTW.



 Thanks,

Samplitude will give me 999 tracks, and it supportts VSTi's etc, it also has latency compensation, so far so good. No score editor, but I can learn the piano roll way...

I still have questions regarding the workflow in an Audio Sequencer:

Do you generally open a new instance of Kontakt for each instrument in your template? It seems this will be necessary to mix in real time in Samplitude because there is no separate "Midi Mixer", just the main mixer for audio recordings and vsti's treated equally. Of course I could have several instrument in one instance of Kontakt and set the balance between instruments there. Then I would have to use drawn midi automation curves for "real time" mixing.

Sorry if I am out of the loop, I'm still on C-lab Notator level unfortunately...


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 30, 2006)

BTW Nick,

Maybe this could be the subject for an article in your magazine: "Basic Audio Sequencer Techniques"....


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## Ed (Mar 30, 2006)

Logic is too hard, Cubase is good if it werent for a few annoying bugs that crop up sometimes. But, I do really like Cubase.


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## Craig Sharmat (Mar 30, 2006)

My initial advise is to get a Mac and go to Logic simply because it is the sequencer that is most familar to you. All sequencers can do a great job, so the question is really where do you want to put your energies with the learning curve. You have held onto the old Logic version for so long now, it tells me you really did not feel the need to upgrade. If buying a fancy new Mac is not where you want to spend your money, then you have the PC choices left.
One other suggestion is since you live in the LA area you could go over to any number of composers places and sample each sequencer for an hour and see if any speak to you.


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## Thonex (Mar 30, 2006)

Craig Sharmat @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> One other suggestion is since you live in the LA area you could go over to any number of composers places and sample each sequencer for an hour and see if any speak to you.



That's some good advice.

I just don't know anyone who uses Samplitude. But Hans, you're more than welcome to come over here for a Nuendo test drive.

Cheers,

T


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## Craig Sharmat (Mar 30, 2006)

I would be very careful when taking Thonex's advice

He speaks 12 languages
plays 16 instruments
can write code on a computer...
and single handed could end world hunger if he was to devote all his engeries to it.

Nuendo is childs play for him.


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## Thonex (Mar 30, 2006)

Craig Sharmat @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> I would be very careful when taking Thonex's advice
> 
> He speaks 12 languages
> plays 16 instruments
> ...



Clearly Craig, you underestimate me  

T


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## fictionmusic (Mar 30, 2006)

You could also try some of the demos that are available on the host's sites or if you are buying an interface try the lite versions of the sequencers they are bundled with.
I have light versions of Cubase and Sonar from such purchases and have used them once in a while pretty easily. 

I love C-Lab's Notator btw and was very reluctant to switch. If it hadn't have been for the fact two Atari monitors burned (smoke and fire ie) in the course of one month, I doubt I would have made the leap. I set up Logic to have the exact same key commands as Notator and really came to love the sample editor (until then I smpte'd up to adats and Tascams). So many of the features are identical, it is very easy to see the lineage.

This was back in 1997 and since then I have gotten used to some of the features that I was unfamiliar with....now I wouldn't switch if I was paid. I still have tons of files on the 1040 and it is still up and running when I need it (with a third, hopefully fireproof monitor). I also have a power PC with 3.5 on it and as it has a floppy disk drive I am able to load Atari format Notator files on it and convert them to Logic files. 

I am loathe to get rid of gear as it seems no sooner do I lose something, then a client comes back for a revision of some old cue. So I keep one Adat, one DA-98, a jazz drive, a power PC, my trusty atari and several racks containing M1-Rs, U-220s, Proteus', a Wavestation, an Akai sampler, several dat machines (I bought a replacement last year from this very forum in fact) and a bevy of 3/4" video machines. All of them can easily be replaced by 1 G5 and Logic pro but they do look cool if nothing else.

Anyway good luck Hans...maybe if you don't need to get too much midi stuff, you can still use Notator with Samplitude. Any thing Samplitude is lacking for in midi Notator could easily fill.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 30, 2006)

The real answer is that you're not going to go wrong with any of the major programs. I'd also ignore Thonex - he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

And sequencing basics is one of the subjects for my "First DAW" series. Great minds...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 30, 2006)

Also, I don't think anyone answered your question about Kontakt. No, you load each instance with eight (or 16 in K2) instruments and address it multitimbrally, using its multiple outputs. I don't think any sequencer can access all 64 MIDI channels in a K2 - that's if it's operating stand-alone.

The reason is that each one you insert uses up a fair amount of CPU and especially memory - unlike EXS, which doesn't, but like HALion, which also does.


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 30, 2006)

Thonex, Nick, Craig, Ed, Fiction, Patrick,

You are all very helpful, and I am kind of having moments of sanity starting lean more towards Cubase. There is so much going for it, including all the people that knows how to use it that can be helpful. I will not be able to go the Logic route because that would mean having to by a new comp, and I recently bought a new PC.

No one has been able to confirm how suitable Samplitude is for scoring to video, sync for video apps etc, and it makes me nervous....but it is soo... sexy...  ...drool...


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## Thonex (Mar 30, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> Also, I don't think anyone answered your question about Kontakt. No, you load each instance with eight (or 16 in K2) instruments and address it multitimbrally, using its multiple outputs. I don't think any sequencer can access all 64 MIDI channels in a K2 - that's if it's operating stand-alone.
> 
> The reason is that each one you insert uses up a fair amount of CPU and especially memory - unlike EXS, which doesn't, but like HALion, which also does.



You can access all 64 midi channels of K2 from your Daw in the same computer using Midi Yoke.  *THAT* would be a cool article for your VI rag.

Midi Yoke:
http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/MIDIYoke_NT-XP/


But having said that, I don't use midi yoke... I just have separate computers for different sampling softwares. The cool thing about midi yoke is, you can load up new DAW programs without having to reload all your sounds again... and again... etc. (if you work in 1 box).

T


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## Thonex (Mar 30, 2006)

Hans Adamson @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> I am kind of having moments of sanity starting lean more towards Cubase.



good boy!  

T


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 30, 2006)

I saw you give him that sugar cube!

MIDI Yoke would be a great Random Tip maybe? Or does it require a full article? I thought it was just the PC equivalent of IAC, right? For some reason it's not practical to run K2 outside Logic that way - it uses too much CPU. They probably haven't tested it to figure out why. Kore might be an answer to that so you can access more memory.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 30, 2006)

Actually, I think I used MIDI Yoke to route MIDI between the word munging program when I reviewed Giovani.


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## hv (Mar 30, 2006)

Hi, Hans. I use Sonar myself and really like its nice integration of midi, audio, and video. Also am impressed by recent advances its made in mix sound quality which I always thought was pretty good. It's weak on low level audio editing, notation, and doesn't do cd burning at all. Though I like it a lot, I've been thinking about Samplitude or Sequoia myself lately. Mainly because I'm getting disillusioned with switching off to Sound Forge and CD Architect for those important functions which Samplitude would integrate. My sense is that Samplitude was ahead of Sonar in sound quality until recently and that now they're close to one another. 

You might want to touch base with Kip McGinnis over at Bardstown Audio if you're really interested in Samplitude. I understand he was a former Sonar diehard himself and now swears by Sequoia and sells the Magix line. He also sells all the others so I believe his enthusiasm is genuine. 

Howard


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## choc0thrax (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm interested in trying out what Maarten Spruijt was doing in those tips videos on his site. It requires a sequencer that allows you to record on multiple midi tracks at the same time. Anyone know which sequencers can do that?


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## Craig Sharmat (Mar 30, 2006)

Maarten was using Logic

I am surprised that not all sequencers can do that. I would think you mamy be missing something with your sequencer.


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## choc0thrax (Mar 30, 2006)

My mom is what?


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## Thonex (Mar 30, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> I'm interested in trying out what Maarten Spruijt was doing in those tips videos on his site. It requires a sequencer that allows you to record on multiple midi tracks at the same time. Anyone know which sequencers can do that?


which one are you using?

T


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## Thonex (Mar 30, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> I saw you give him that sugar cube!
> 
> MIDI Yoke would be a great Random Tip maybe? Or does it require a full article? I thought it was just the PC equivalent of IAC, right? For some reason it's not practical to run K2 outside Logic that way - it uses too much CPU. They probably haven't tested it to figure out why. Kore might be an answer to that so you can access more memory.



It is the PC equivalent to IAC. The benefit to doing it on PC and Mac would be the 2 gig per application limit. You can get arounf this by using IAC and the Sampler would have 2 gigs allocsted to it.... theoreticlly of course.

I think you could probably make it into an article. Another benefit is you don't always have to load in your sounds when you load up a new sequence.

T


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## choc0thrax (Mar 30, 2006)

Cubase SL. The original one. I spilled chocolate milk in a drawer that was full of sample library and other software manuals and ended up throwing out the Cubase manual so I can't really read up about it.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 30, 2006)

Craig Sharmat @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> I would be very careful when taking Thonex's advice
> 
> He speaks 12 languages
> plays 16 instruments
> ...



Well, the guy is from Switzerland to start with. These people are born speaking German, Itallian and French...and their streets are really clean. Too clean to be honest if you ask me.


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## sbkp (Mar 30, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> Cubase SL. The original one. I spilled chocolate milk in a drawer that was full of sample library and other software manuals and ended up throwing out the Cubase manual so I can't really read up about it.



Oh, you really weren't joking about the chocolate milk!

:smile: :smile: 

- Stefan


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 30, 2006)

Hans Adamson @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> Thonex, Nick, Craig, Ed, Fiction, Patrick,
> 
> You are all very helpful, and I am kind of having moments of sanity starting lean more towards Cubase. .



Hans, it is the voice of reason that is speaking through you.


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## choc0thrax (Mar 30, 2006)

sbkp @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> choc0thrax @ Thu Mar 30 said:
> 
> 
> > Cubase SL. The original one. I spilled chocolate milk in a drawer that was full of sample library and other software manuals and ended up throwing out the Cubase manual so I can't really read up about it.
> ...



I drink a lot of chocolate milk. I was actually drinking chocolate milk when I was typing that.


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## Thonex (Mar 30, 2006)

Patrick de Caumette @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> Craig Sharmat @ Thu Mar 30 said:
> 
> 
> > I would be very careful when taking Thonex's advice
> ...



Cubase can do what Marteen tried.


@ Patrick,

It's funny you should mention the clean Swiss streets. I used to live 500 meters from the French border in a town call Thonex (that's where I got my name from) and the second you crossed the border into France, the streets were unkept and the buildings were gray. :lol: 

For those who are interested in Thonex:

http://www.thonex.ch/

T


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## choc0thrax (Mar 30, 2006)

Thonex @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> Cubase can do what Marteen tried.



Alright...uhhh how?


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 30, 2006)

Thonex,

Are you using Nuendo or Cubase SX3? What is the difference between the two? Is Nuendo better sounding?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 30, 2006)

Thonex, I've seen that exact phenomenon crossing the border in European trains: you can tell you're in Switzerland right away.

About IAC/MIDI Yoke - yes, I gotcha. But as I said, on Mac there's a small problem with running the stand-alone K2 outside Logic and addressing it with IAC in order to access more memory: it isn't practical, because the processing overhead is too high. You can't call it a bug, because it's cheating, but they'd have to fix that with Kore. Kore is both a host and a plug-in that streams its output Ã  la ReWire, meaning that they'd have to make the host work without chewing up all the CPU.

Am I repeating myself repeating mysef?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 30, 2006)

And I don't think that's a whole article. You and I just explained it to each other in one paragraph each time.


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## sbkp (Mar 30, 2006)

Thonex @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> Another benefit is you don't always have to load in your sounds when you load up a new sequence.
> 
> T



That right there is reason enough to do it.

How do you route the audio from K2 back into Nuendo (or Cubase, in my case)?

Thanks,
Stefan


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## Thonex (Mar 30, 2006)

sbkp @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> Thonex @ Thu Mar 30 said:
> 
> 
> > Another benefit is you don't always have to load in your sounds when you load up a new sequence.
> ...



I'll ask my friend who is doing it. He may be doing an optical cable loop-back into his RME 9652... of maybe he's doing it some other way. I'll let you know.


Choco,

In prefs, choose "Record Enable selected tracks" or something similar to that. That will allow you to select multipke tracks and record to them from 1 input. The rest is does in the inspector windo or input transform.

You can download the manuals from stinberg I believe.

T


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## choc0thrax (Mar 30, 2006)

Thonex @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> sbkp @ Thu Mar 30 said:
> 
> 
> > Thonex @ Thu Mar 30 said:
> ...



My record enable selected tracks was already checkmarked it seems.


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 31, 2006)

Simon, 

How do you physically link your sequencer comp to your "monitor comp"?

Alex, thanks for the tips.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 31, 2006)

Simon Ravn @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> Thonex @ Thu Mar 30 said:
> 
> 
> > You'll get another Nuendo/Cubase vote from me too. And yes, you can have multiple editors (scoring, list, key, drum etc.) open at the same time and all the editors follow along with the song cursor or even if you select a note in the score window.. the same note will be selected in the Key editor.
> ...



I never had that bug Simon.
Can you describe how you get it step by step?

Hans, the audio engine of Cubase and Nuendo is exactly the same.

Nuendo has a lot more features for video based post production.
I have been using SX for my TV and film work and it works great. 
I might switch to Nuendo down the road though...


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## Thonex (Mar 31, 2006)

Simon Ravn @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> Thonex @ Thu Mar 30 said:
> 
> 
> > You'll get another Nuendo/Cubase vote from me too. And yes, you can have multiple editors (scoring, list, key, drum etc.) open at the same time and all the editors follow along with the song cursor or even if you select a note in the score window.. the same note will be selected in the Key editor.
> ...



AFAIK... this only happens if you try to record with several tracks at the same time, witth the editors open in specific circumstances with very specific steps. This Bug is pretty hard to repro. TJ sent me the Repro steps and it took me a couple of tries to repro it. There are ways around it. For one, you can just assign a Macro to close/open the required linked editors when recording multiple midi tracks. I've only heard of this bug through TJ, you and maybe one other person. Hans won't run into this unless he has a VERY specific work flow.

More importantly, why aren't you using Logic 7 on a Mac??? I've heard it's a great upgrade. Aren't you missing all the new features Logic has to offer?? Or is it that you just don't like Macs?

T


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## Thonex (Mar 31, 2006)

Hans Adamson @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> Thonex,
> 
> Are you using Nuendo or Cubase SX3? What is the difference between the two? Is Nuendo better sounding?



Sorry... I missed this earlier.

I use Nuendo.

There are very few things it does that I couldn't do with Cubase SX. The main thing I use in Nuendo that SX doesn't have is a Track Sheet. It allows me to print out a track sheet of all my cues (their SMPTE starts and ends) VERY easily.... a REAL time saver. It used to be such a pain-in-the-a$$ when post houses wanted track sheets of where all the cues were... not it takes just a few seconds.

Nuendo also offers 9 pin control which Cubase doesn't AKAIK.... not a big deal unless you run a post house.

Also, I think Nuendo might have more import/export options to interface with PT or other Post production applications.

Nuendo offers more Surround support and encoding features.... but for a composer SAX should be fine.

T


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## Thonex (Mar 31, 2006)

sbkp @ Thu Mar 30 said:


> Thonex @ Thu Mar 30 said:
> 
> 
> > Another benefit is you don't always have to load in your sounds when you load up a new sequence.
> ...



Ok ... I talked to my friend. There are limitations... this is what I understand.... and maybe Nick can do an article on it to shed more light.

- Midi Yoke can be used with Nuendo as the DAW, and you can have K2 or even VSTack running in the background. FOr this to work, you have to "Release asio in background" in Cubase's Devices menu. But now you can't run audio from Nuendo... just use it as a sequnecer (because it released it's card's asio to the background application). 

- So, unless there is another answer, since you cannot share asio between 2 applications (unless through Rewire) my friend thinks you have to use a second asio card for the background apps and Nuendo to work normally.

So.... to be continued....


Nick?


T


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## Simon Ravn (Mar 31, 2006)

Hans Adamson @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> Simon,
> 
> How do you physically link your sequencer comp to your "monitor comp"?
> 
> Alex, thanks for the tips.



I am not talking about physical linking. Just tick on "Link Editors" in preferences in Cubase. I can't see why people would want to have the key editor open at the same time as the arrange window, unless the editors are linked, so that whatever part your cursor is above, is shown in the key editor.


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## Simon Ravn (Mar 31, 2006)

Patrick de Caumette @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Fri Mar 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Thonex @ Thu Mar 30 said:
> ...



http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic. ... ec+arm+bug


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## Simon Ravn (Mar 31, 2006)

Thonex @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Fri Mar 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Thonex @ Thu Mar 30 said:
> ...



No it doesn't only happen when recording on multiple tracks. It happens all the time no matter what, and it's a PITA....

Why not Mac? Well, maybe because I am used to PC's and I don't want to throw $4000 in a Mac "upgrade" that might even cause some new problems.


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## Hans Adamson (Mar 31, 2006)

Simon,

You misunderstood me. I was wondering about your sync to picture technique that you mentioned in another thread:

http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 83dc7cc9d8

I may want to go the same route.

When you use a separate comp for the video how do you physically arrange for the sync signal to go between the comps?


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## Thonex (Mar 31, 2006)

Simon Ravn @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> It happens all the time no matter what, and it's a PITA....



Sorry... can't agree with you there. It's never happened to me or my 2 other partners that use Cubase/Nuendo... or 99.99% of the Nuendo forum users... or else we would have heard from them. Only when I tried to repro it with TJ's steps. It's defiantely a bug.. and I'm sure its a PITA... but you have to have a certain workflow to encounter it. It just doesn't "happen all the time no matter what." 

Also, I rarely record with the editors open.... I only open the editors when I need to for editing...


T


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## Simon Ravn (Mar 31, 2006)

Thonex @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Fri Mar 31 said:
> 
> 
> > It happens all the time no matter what, and it's a PITA....
> ...



It has nothing to do with agreeing. It's a fact that this bug renders SX unusable for me, because I can't work for more than a couple of minutes before I see it. And I never record multiple tracks... 

I would think my workflow is pretty standard. However, you need to have the editors linked, and most people don't seem to use that (which is beyond me). I just record, stop, record, stop, change some things, record, stop etc... Not very exotic Sometimes I record on a Layout having the Key Editor open, but most of the time on an arrange window Layout only. The bug also seems related to jumping between window layouts and SX forgetting what was rec enabled and what wasn't etc. TJ's walkthrough is just a bulletproof way to make it happen.


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## Thonex (Mar 31, 2006)

Simon Ravn @ Fri Mar 31 said:


> It has nothing to do with agreeing. It's a fact that this bug renders SX unusable for me, because I can't work for more than a couple of minutes before I see it. And I never record multiple tracks...
> 
> I would think my workflow is pretty standard. However, you need to have the editors linked, and most people don't seem to use that (which is beyond me). I just record, stop, record, stop, change some things, record, stop etc... Not very exotic Sometimes I record on a Layout having the Key Editor open, but most of the time on an arrange window Layout only. The bug also seems related to jumping between window layouts and SX forgetting what was rec enabled and what wasn't etc. TJ's walkthrough is just a bulletproof way to make it happen.



Yeah... I've had Link Editors ON since day 1. I remember from TJs repro that I had to close windows choose other tracks... open windows record... etc... I think window layouts (as you said) is probably related to the issue.

I'm just saying the vast majority of users never have encountered this... or at least not on a regular basis. However, it would be nice if Steiny would fix this without breaking something else.

T


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## madbulk (Mar 31, 2006)

I'm on Logic Pro having migrated from DP. Happier now. 

But the real reasons why are probably first, MAC vs PC, which matters less and less, but mac is where I live. After Apple bought Logic, the deal was pretty much sealed for life I think. They just keep integrating and adding plugs and the synths are great and they'll just keep adding more till they kill PT and so on and so forth. 

It just seems like a great investment at this point. Plus, it's already what you know! So all that stuff about it being too hard? You know that's not really true, not after you get past that initial hump.


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## Peter Alexander (Apr 5, 2006)

Hans Adamson @ Wed Mar 29 said:


> Tx Frederick,
> 
> It would be interesting to hear from people who switched platform, why they did, etc.
> 
> Doesn't Sonar include scoring to video?



I switched sequencing platforms and moved from SX3 to Logic and G5. I've been documenting my learnng curve in a new blog called Learning MacLogic Blog:
http://www.soniccontrol.com/blog/

I'm on 7.1.1 and OS whatever, and everything works. I'm not upgrading. I don't need to, really. 

I moved to Logic because I was having issues with SX3 that had not been worked out. Like Fred, I liked the idea of the EXS24 and all those instances. For the other Virtual Instruments, I keep those on the PCs. Everything is working very well. I'm just slowly going back through my Logic 4 class that I wrote a few years and finding everything. 

Also, I don't own Pro Tools, but I do have Sequoia, so when I need to, I sequence in Logic and record in Sequoia. This gives me the best of both worlds.


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## jorgen (Apr 11, 2006)

Re Cubase SX3 / score editor; I do all my MIDI edits in the list editor. Everything needed is there. My vote is for Cubase, also because there is a lot of good learning-dvd's to get. Very informative. (such as "if you right-click in the video window, it changes to full screen view. Saved me the extra screen just for video monitoring)


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## MrFlexx (Jul 21, 2006)

I'm using Nuendo 3 and Pro Tools 6.8 and must say that Cubase SX3 is a great program for both audio and midi. But if you can afford it and want to spend your money on a better "read more expensive" DAW, then you should go for Nuendo 3. But Cubase SX3 is great and will do for most users out there.

I can put it another way. If you do lots of midi, then go for Cubase. If you do lots of audio, then go for Pro Tools. If it's 50/50, then go for both


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