# Rejected Composer



## Christof (Nov 28, 2014)

I have not yet been in this situation, but I am curious to know what happens when your score gets rejected any you are fired from the gig after all work including recordings is done.
Do they still pay you something or do you loose everything?


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## Valérie_D (Nov 28, 2014)

Hi Christof,

Normally, unless it is a pitch before you get the gig, if you have worked on the project, I think they should pay you, maybe it is something to discuss in the contract before. This has never happened to me before but I dare to hope you get paid for your work :D


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## dgburns (Nov 28, 2014)

most contracts state that the producer has the right to not use your music,and also that they hold the right to get you to re write it until they are satisfied with the music.It pays to pay attention to the language in the contract for these specific points.You can find yourself in a situation where you end up writing the music over and over quite a few times.Remember that there can be quite a few people who may chime in on what they think the music should be,starting with director,moving on the creator/writer and then moving up to producer(s) and then to execs(either studio or network).In any of those places,someone can come back and force a revision.
Also make sure that your music is contracted to only THIS production,try and make sure the language states that specifically,or you may end up with giving them the right to use your music in subsequent productions without compensation.I have had that done to me,without consent or even my knowledge until the PRO reporting came back and I realized what had happened.this on a project I was overlooked in favor of another composer in the first place.
Maybe the best way to avoid any problems for you is to specify if you can,a payment schedule so that when you get past certain points in the production,it triggers a payment to you.This can be a third/third/third where you get the first third upon starting,the second third halfway,and the final payment upon delivering the final ,this way if any complications arise,you still get paid along the way.This can avoid non payment for creative differences,but also if the production co runs out of money,which has also happened to me more times then I care to tell.If the company must resort to the Bonding company(the completion insurance), you may well find youself out of the picture as the bonding company will find any way at it's disposal to complete the production,this can mean with or without you.They will try to negociate a super reduced rate for you to complete the work,or threaten to complete without you using material at their disposal,including your submitted music up to that point.It's a messy situation,one I don't want to go into again,but glad to have witnessed it to know what happens.
I guess there's lot's that can go wrong in a production,but it's best to focus on helping people and getting the most inner people what they need,as in director,producer etc.People can get really insane and emotional in the final days of post production,as they get payment triggers and penalties if not delivered on time.It gets more complicated with international co-productions which might include tax incentive situations from foreign states.
Sorry for the book,just thought i'd add another dimension to why things don't always go according to plan.It pays to have a good idea of the pitfalls,so you can prepare for them,and ultimately fly over them without concern.


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## AC986 (Nov 28, 2014)

Christof @ Fri Nov 28 said:


> I have not yet been in this situation, but I am curious to know what happens when your score gets rejected any you are fired from the gig after all work including recordings is done.
> Do they still pay you something or do you loose everything?



Well it's old news now, but years ago I talked to Gabriel Yared about the aftermath of a film he was taken off. He was rightly very disappointed but afaik he was paid for his 8 months or so work. I don't think it was so much the money being an issue, but the amount of work and pathetic reasons given. Pandering to young moronic filmgoers and their not understanding what a filmscore has the potential of being, may have been one of them.


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## Living Fossil (Nov 28, 2014)

adriancook @ Fri Nov 28 said:


> Well it's old news now, but years ago I talked to Gabriel Yared about the aftermath of a film he was taken off. He was rightly very disappointed but afaik he was paid for his 8 months or so work. I don't think it was so much the money being an issue, but the amount of work and pathetic reasons given. Pandering to young moronic filmgoers and their not understanding what a filmscore has the potential of being, may have been one of them.



If you speak about Troy; well, that was a shame. I heared some tracks of Yared's score and it's really a very sad fact that in our time major movie companies obviously think that it's no longer possible to use music that goes beyond the harmonic language of pop music. [I'm absolutely not against pop music and the harmonic language of pop music per se, i just think that it's mostly not the appropriate language for big movies, btw,  ]


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## Christof (Nov 28, 2014)

Funny, I started this thread after reading about the Troy issue.
Sad to read what James Horner who replaced Yared had to say about Yared rejected score: "And it wasn't because Gabriel's not a gifted writer, it's because he just doesn't have any knowledge of writing film scores. Real film scores like that. And it was like -- It was so corny. It was unbelievable."


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## RiffWraith (Nov 28, 2014)

Christof @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> Funny, I started this thread after reading about the Troy issue.
> Sad to read what James Horner who replaced Yared had to say about Yared rejected score: "And it wasn't because Gabriel's not a gifted writer, it's because he just doesn't have any knowledge of writing film scores. Real film scores like that. And it was like -- It was so corny. It was unbelievable."



Not sure where you got that quote from, but I am pretty sure that Horner said that Gabriel didn't have the experience of scoring big action movies. Not that he didn't have any knowledge of writing film scores.


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## ryans (Nov 29, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Fri Nov 28 said:


> Christof @ Sat Nov 29 said:
> 
> 
> > Funny, I started this thread after reading about the Troy issue.
> ...



Here's the quote, at 7:18

https://app.box.com/s/ms8kuvjc5ct7coavw0ij


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## Dean (Nov 29, 2014)

thats so dissapointing to hear James Horner sounding like such an ungracious,egotistical A-hole,..he spent the entire 11 minutes passive,aggressively digging at Gabriel Yared and then the director,..no class at all. D


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 29, 2014)

A bit strange, almost like a score settlement, no pun intended.


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 29, 2014)

ryans @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> Here's the quote, at 7:18
> 
> https://app.box.com/s/ms8kuvjc5ct7coavw0ij



Wow. That's deep-seated scarcity and insecurity speaking out loud and clear. Truly disappointed.


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## RiffWraith (Nov 29, 2014)

ryans @ Sun Nov 30 said:


> Here's the quote, at 7:18
> 
> https://app.box.com/s/ms8kuvjc5ct7coavw0ij



Ok, so Christof is correct, but he actually said both.

*7:18 * And it wasn't b/c Gabriel is not a gifted writer, it's b/c he just doesn't have any knowledge of writing film scores - real film scores like that.

*7:49 * And Gabriel's, you know, not knowing what cinematic, big cinematic action music should be...

Cheers.


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## AR (Nov 29, 2014)

I was replaced by a italian composer, due to producer+composer relationship. Well, it was a real farce with this project. Originally Atticus Ross should've scored it, since his sister is the main actress. I replaced him cause of his schedule conflict with Gone Girl. I was already delivering some great demos, when a Arabian producer came on board. He claimed to work only with this italian guy. To be percise, I'm glad it turned out that way. The director and me we didn't get along. Funny, cause the director's brother is also a director and I just signed with him the second movie. I think many profilic composer got in such position. At least JNH, Alan Silvestri, Danny Elfman come to mind....Just to name a few actual incidents.


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## jamwerks (Nov 29, 2014)

Dean @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> thats so dissapointing to hear James Horner sounding like such an ungracious,egotistical A-hole,..he spent the entire 11 minutes passive,aggressively digging at Gabriel Yared and then the director,..no class at all. D


Funny, I didn't take it that way at all.

Anyway, amazing that he could produce 90+ minutes of music in 9 days. I'd be interested to know how his team was organized behind him. Is Horner someone who basically improvises at the piano, then hands off to an arranger-orchestrator?


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## AC986 (Nov 29, 2014)

Living Fossil @ Fri Nov 28 said:


> adriancook @ Fri Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Well it's old news now, but years ago I talked to Gabriel Yared about the aftermath of a film he was taken off. He was rightly very disappointed but afaik he was paid for his 8 months or so work. I don't think it was so much the money being an issue, but the amount of work and pathetic reasons given. Pandering to young moronic filmgoers and their not understanding what a filmscore has the potential of being, may have been one of them.
> ...



When you look at Troy, it's basically a pop tune as a film. It's not serious. So it really needed a score that was also going to appeal to the target audience.

The same director made Das Boot. That's good. Troy isn't.

Most films that are designed to make or squeeze out the most money are generally bottom up when it comes to audiences. You are basically using the lowest common denominator as your target and then see how far up it goes.

Top down films don't make much money and a lot of very good ones pay scale or are almost pro bono. Ergo, let's not knock the Troys of this world as they go to funding some films that are good and worth watching.

For an audience type that has a brain, films are not a monetary investment but more importantly an investment of their time.


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## dahnielson (Nov 29, 2014)

jamwerks @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> Anyway, amazing that he could produce 90+ minutes of music in 9 days. I'd be interested to know how his team was organized behind him. Is Horner someone who basically improvises at the piano, then hands off to an arranger-orchestrator?



Well, I think Horner cut his teeth on scoring _Aliens_. Arriving thinking the editing would be done and the picture locked and having 6 weeks writing the score, only to discover that the picture was still shooting. He basically wrote the cues in a couple of days to my understanding. But then he also managed to write one of the most reused action cues...

Btw, here's an interview with him about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzati0Am5GE


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## Living Fossil (Nov 29, 2014)

adriancook @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> Most films that are designed to make or squeeze out the most money are generally bottom up when it comes to audiences. You are basically using the lowest common denominator as your target and then see how far up it goes.



Adrian,
i agree with that statement. My problem is rather the fact that it leads to a tendency which on the long run can be devastating for the overall cultural level:
You lower the level to reach as many people as possible, and you're succesful.
Then you think: ok, that's how it works.
But in the same time a conditioning of the viewer takes place. He gets used to that was in his experience is "standard".
And so soon you can't surpass this new standard anymore.


My problem with Troy is absoutely not what Horner did in 9 days (in fact, he did a terrific job). 
My problem is that an aesthetic diversity gets lost, since there seems to be a need to stick to stereotypes. 
A young audience gets used/conditioned to an aesthetical language which is not problematic for that what it has, but for that what it doesn't.
That goes for music as for storytelling as for psychological concepts etc.


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## AC986 (Nov 29, 2014)

This is off topic and you could go on all day about culture and perceived views and ideas about what why when and where things could be better. But better for who? And in what way?

I've watched tons of films that are silly nonsense but at the same time entertaining because on some level or another, I do not wish to have to bother with whether something is bad or not. Crap films can be fun so it's a bit like comparing ice creams. Wow, I had an ice cream two weeks ago that was a much better than this one! If you see what I mean.

Good films tend to attract good scores, photography everything. They don't normally get compared to anything.

When it comes to scores, they tend to be based on a whats fashionable more so than say photography or dialogue.


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## Living Fossil (Nov 29, 2014)

adriancook @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> I've watched tons of films that are silly nonsense but at the same time entertaining because on some level or another, I do not wish to have to bother with whether something is bad or not.



No problem with entertaining nonsense. Big problem with polished crap that's sold as high-class.
Ed Wood lived in the wrong time.

[sorry Christof for beeing off topic. Will reject further off-topic-annotations]


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## DaComposer (Dec 3, 2014)

[edited by moderator because of rule violation]

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## Markus S (Dec 4, 2014)

[edited by moderator because quoted post that violated rules]


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## eric aron (Dec 4, 2014)

ryans @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> RiffWraith @ Fri Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Christof @ Sat Nov 29 said:
> ...



Horner is very clear. Hollywood is Hollywood, and no humanity is to be awaited from such entity. constant pressure and ego battles are part of the daily menu. 
Gabriel Yared is a gifted classical composer more than a Hollywood composer, and even if i prefer his Troy score, which is a jewel, i understand the context. 
this situation was awful for him, also because he wrote a masterpiece, musically speaking. 
we also talked together about it, and i know well his skills (even having copy of his original score for Camille Claudel, which is a gem in the writing and use of counterpoint). 
I am not sure Horner will ever reach this musical level in his life. but these are different contexts, thus requiring different skills and adaptive behaviors. if pop songs and fx work better nowadays for the business maps, this will be on disadvantage for a purist composer. 
Gabriel told me many times that he didn't felt well in the movie industry, because of his spiritual ethics, and ultimately wished to isolate and write pure music, as his beloved Bach.. 
and i also remember having listened to an interview where James Horner was also terribly depressed about his work conditions


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## FriFlo (Dec 4, 2014)

Here is the rejected score. Haven't listened to a lot of it, but this does sound not bad to me. Of course you would have to see with the scenes, but I think Horner is totally over the top with his description, how "corny" this music is ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O007vSksRo&index=1&list=PLFD3C241F4149F184 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O007vS ... 1F4149F184)
Mr. Horner: What the hell is "real film music"? I would get it and accept it, if he would have said "standard film music". But thatstatement is so narrow-minded ... as many of his scores actually are.
Also, his comment about imitating Bach is ridiculous, as it is only a notion in Yared's scores, where Horners work is mostly a copy of one work by Prokoviev.


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## AC986 (Dec 4, 2014)

FriFlo @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Also, his comment about imitating Bach is ridiculous, as it is only a notion in Yared's scores, where Horners work is mostly a copy of one work by Prokoviev.



Horner has done some very interesting scores that work well with the film he's been contracted to do. For example, The Name of the Rose, Batteries not included and Sneakers to name a few. The score to Sneaker is very good and works. There's no sign of Prokofiev on any of these films. 

The film in question, Troy, is basically an elongated rock video with lots of glittery actors running round the place trying to be cool. That is why a serious score from GY was never going to work. Troy had everything that a sword and sandals film requires. Plenty of action, plenty of costumes, plenty of token female roles, chariots, sand, high walls, things made of wood (including some of the actors) and so on.


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## JohnG (Dec 4, 2014)

James Horner wrote some of the coolest scores ever, notwithstanding some of the criticisms (some fair, some not) leveled at him over the years. 

It's hardly surprising that he would have strong opinions, given how bold and daring some of the choices are in his scores. The only surprising thing about the interview is that he actually voiced those opinions. Hollywood is packed with cringing sycophants, and always has been; PG Wodehouse uses the expression, "he agreed faster than a Hollywood yes-man" in one of his novels from 60 or 70 years ago. So, Horner decided to say what he thought and it's such a novelty that it sounds harsh, particularly if you pick one or two phrases out of the whole.

I have heard unflattering anecdotes about Mr. Horner over the years; apart from this recording, there is a scathing interview he delivered about The New World out there too. 

I don't expect everyone who can write music to be a diplomat and a swell guy on top of it. One doesn't have to look too far in history to find out that not all our artistic heroes were perfect.


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## JohnG (Dec 4, 2014)

To address the OP.

Here are a few typical attributes of agreements I've seen:

1. Composer gets 1/2 fee up front.

2. Producers don't have to use the music.

3. It can be somewhat ambiguous exactly who owns the music and any recordings made if the producer pays some, but not all, the money. It may be governed by contract law in the particular jurisdiction that governs the contract (which is usually specified but can be ambiguous). If he hasn't paid anything at all, I would guess that you own the music and the producer can't use it.

4. As someone else mentioned, composer often agrees contractually to revise the music indefinitely until producer is satisfied, though I have never seen this enforced.

If producer doesn't pay, and you didn't get anything up front, you may have to kick up quite a fuss to get money out of them.


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## dcoscina (Dec 4, 2014)

There's a popular story that Horner dated Goldsmith's daughter only so he could get into scoring sessions to see how Jerry did things.

I admire Horner's compositional abilities but it's one thing to be candid and another to lack social graces especially when he already took the job from Yared and then bad mouths him after the fact. I spoke with Yared at length about Troy in an interview i did for FSM in 2004 and he said nothing bad about Horner on or off record. It would have been nice for Horner to employ the same sense of professionalism.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 4, 2014)

After hearing the interview with Horner (about Troy) i don't think he's trying to be malicious. I have rather the impression that he tries to be honest, which of course is maybe the most unusual thing in Hollywood (normally everybody states how great everybody is). 

I also think that it's quite logical that he is so critical about Yared. When you have to replace somebody who's work has been rejected it's quite clear that you try focussing on what was probably wrong with that work - since you want to produce something that won't be rejected. [nevertheless, i still think Yared's score would have been the better choice]. 
And maybe - hidden in that criticism about Y's score - there is also a bit of criticism against some tendencies in the filmmusic business. so there might be a grain of sarcasm in the whole interview.


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## José Herring (Dec 4, 2014)

FriFlo @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> Here is the rejected score. Haven't listened to a lot of it, but this does sound not bad to me. Of course you would have to see with the scenes, but I think Horner is totally over the top with his description, how "corny" this music is ...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O007vSksRo&index=1&list=PLFD3C241F4149F184 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O007vS ... 1F4149F184)
> Mr. Horner: What the hell is "real film music"? I would get it and accept it, if he would have said "standard film music". But thatstatement is so narrow-minded ... as many of his scores actually are.
> Also, his comment about imitating Bach is ridiculous, as it is only a notion in Yared's scores, where Horners work is mostly a copy of one work by Prokoviev.



I don't agree with Horners way of stating it, but he was right. I did see a clip of Yared's score to picture and it was really corny. It just didn't work. I had no objection to the music, thought it was rather fine, but film music isn't just about the music, it's also about how the music works to picture and how it hits the ear of a contemporary audience.

If they had released it with Yared's score the movie would have been a big joke. The scene I saw was laughable. 

I didn't think that Horner's music was that great, but it did work to picture a lot better than Yared's original score at least the one clip that I saw. 

Not a popular viewpoint and Horner is an ass imo, but he knows how to score a film and he's essentially right about Yared's score.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Dec 4, 2014)

I have faced rejection in different forms. 

The first time was when I was an additional composer on a movie for another composer. We did the first two reels and the director basically hated it all. He said, it was crap and we changed it. Then we had several presentation and he never really liked anything, showing no hesitance in his dismissive feedback. 

He also fell asleep in one of the presentations and we later found out that he was on heavy doses of cocaine. Well, we got fired but it was staged in a way that it had to finally come from my composer friend. We never got paid. 

Worked on another film a few years later - same situation, additional composer. We did the whole movie twice and then changed it again quite a bit over a period of two years. Never got a single dime. The film got shelved. The director hated most of what we did. It wasn't commercial enough for him  Now 4 years later, I hear they have hired someone else!

Then in 2012, I scored my first feature film as a composer. The director was super happy including the post-production guys, editor and the gang! They mixed it (very, very poorly) and all was done! I fought for the music but hey - I was the new guy, what do I know?

I get a call two days later from the producer saying that the studio executives wanted to come to my place and talk at 11:30 in the night. 10 people came into my room. The senior most executive said that the music was not doing anything for the film and that they made a mistake not to sit in on any of the scoring sessions. He said that it was a bad taste in the mouth and he should have been at home with his wife but now he has to fix this. The film was supposed to release in 5 days! He said, its a lost cause now and asked me to change the last reel. It was impossible to change much else or hire another composer.

This went on for an hour and finally I requested him to hear the music once in my room. After I finished, he got up and hugged me. Scolded all his post-production guys and asked me to supervise the mix, giving me authority over the director. 

I refused to do any such thing. I just asked him to let the mixing engineer take the calls because he was being over-ruled! 

Come release day, apparently the only thing good about the movie was the score according to many reviews 

I still get calls from them and they love me there but they haven't made a single movie since because it was a box-office disaster! 


The important thing here is to stay calm, focus and always try to help. I always feel like being part of the solution. Trying ways to work it out to the best of my ability. It does hurt at times but you have got to keep trying. There is always room for improvement though and you can be wrong of course!


Tanuj.


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## Hannes_F (Dec 4, 2014)

Wow. Thanks for sharing, Tanuj. Your endurance will succeed. BTW you forgot to mention that you worked on more than 30 film during the last 4 years and those mentioned in your post were the exceptions


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## Tanuj Tiku (Dec 5, 2014)

Hahaha! Yes, its been a bit crazy and certainly I don't face such strong rejection problems anymore (for now!). But every now and then of course, you do something that is not what they are looking for exactly. 

Having a chat with the film makers is very important about so many things but also understanding the journey they have been through in making the movie. They spend far more time and they face a lot of problems too. A good director will shield the creative process you have with them from many angles but it is true that they are sort of the weakest in morale by the the time they get to the scoring stage. 

Being open minded is important and trying to solve the problems from their point of view without totally selling yourself out! Unless of course, somebody scammed some people into financing the movie just to attain fame and make their money while they cruise through the film parties (dangerous and silly mostly). 

I am still learning as we all are mostly  


And my first film had a lot of help from you Hannes! Thank you for your beautiful performance, it did make a difference. 

Even though the movie bombed and I actually put my own money into it in the end, I did get a call from some folks in LA for a TV show over those very soundcloud links. Eventually I did some music for them and it worked out really well, including my first royalty check  It is amazing - the possibilities! 

You never know, who is listening and what impact your music can have.


Tanuj.


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 13, 2014)

Tanuj Tiku @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> I get a call two days later from the producer saying that the studio executives wanted to come to my place and talk at 11:30 in the night. 10 people came into my room. The senior most executive said that the music was not doing anything for the film and that they made a mistake not to sit in on any of the scoring sessions. He said that it was a bad taste in the mouth and he should have been at home with his wife but now he has to fix this. The film was supposed to release in 5 days! He said, its a lost cause now and asked me to change the last reel. It was impossible to change much else or hire another composer.
> 
> This went on for an hour and finally I requested him to hear the music once in my room. After I finished, he got up and hugged me. Scolded all his post-production guys and asked me to supervise the mix, giving me authority over the director.
> 
> ...



A fascinating story Tanuj!


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## Guido Negraszus (Dec 17, 2014)

Listening to the James Horner interview I must say I lost a lot of respect for him. To talk like that about a fellow (respected) composer is nothing but undignified. He is one of the most successful film composers of all times, he should show some class. Sure, he can have his opinions and views about the whole Troy thing but he should have kept that more private and to close circuits. This is really border line execution of Gabriel Yared's abilities.


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## jleckie (Dec 17, 2014)

dahnielson @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> jamwerks @ Sat Nov 29 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway, amazing that he could produce 90+ minutes of music in 9 days. I'd be interested to know how his team was organized behind him. Is Horner someone who basically improvises at the piano, then hands off to an arranger-orchestrator?
> ...



Well...you may want to do a 'little' more research on the man.

Just sayin.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 17, 2014)

There is a saying in Hollywood that "you are not a _real_ film composer until you have had a score thrown out." 

It has only happened to me once and they threw it out after they had already made their final payment to me. Needless to say, I did not offer to give any of it back, especially because they would not let me write the score I thought I should write, nmicro-managed the one I did write and upon delivery said it was "perfect."


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## pkm (Dec 17, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed Dec 17 said:


> There is a saying in Hollywood that "you are not a _real_ film composer until you have had a score thrown out."
> 
> It has only happened to me once and they threw it out after they had already made their final payment to me. Needless to say, I did not offer to give any of it back, especially because they would not let me write the score I thought I should write, nmicro-managed the one I did write and upon delivery said it was "perfect."



For that reason, I was honored to be finally listed on the http://rejectedfilmscores.150m.com site, albeit as a programmer and with my last name misspelled as "Kock". I'll take what I can get!


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## Jetzer (Dec 18, 2014)

Note to moderators: I was reading this and accidentally hit the report button on Valérie D's post. Sorry.


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## FredrikJonasson (Dec 18, 2014)

Tanuj Tiku @ Thu Dec 04 said:


> The important thing here is to stay calm, focus and always try to help. I always feel like being part of the solution. Trying ways to work it out to the best of my ability. It does hurt at times but you have got to keep trying. There is always room for improvement though and you can be wrong of course!



For someone who is trying to get into the industry, stories like yours is worth much. Thanks for the insight!


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## dahnielson (Dec 18, 2014)

jleckie @ Thu Dec 18 said:


> dahnielson @ Sat Nov 29 said:
> 
> 
> > jamwerks @ Sat Nov 29 said:
> ...



Please enlighten me, what other hellish projects had he done previously?


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## KEnK (Dec 18, 2014)

I'm a little late getting into this thread.
didn't know there was a rejected score for Troy.
Just listened to the Yared version.

It's a real shame that it was rejected.
Yared's work is more in keeping w/ the Homeresque Literary Classic.
It would've added a layer of depth to the film.
By contrast, the Horner score is just another cut & paste generic
teen sword movie job.
Obligatory taikos, string pads and typical brass fanfares.
Difficult to listen to it after the beauty of Yared's score.

Seems like the Hollywood Machinery is afraid of Music these days.
So synth pads and endless arpeggios are winning Oscars.
I'm sure it will get worse.

my 2¢

k


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 18, 2014)

KEnK @ Thu Dec 18 said:


> I'm a little late getting into this thread.
> didn't know there was a rejected score for Troy.
> Just listened to the Yared version.
> 
> ...



Yep.


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## Jetzer (Dec 18, 2014)

KEnK @ December 18th said:


> generic teen sword movie



But it is that kind of movie, isn't it? So it is probably more appropriate to have that kind of score. 

I haven't listened to these scores and I can remember the film only vaguely, but this is not about what is better music, it is about what was right for this film. Their goal was not to make great art, they were just trying to entertain a mass audience. 

Maybe it bores the shit of you and me, but that's okay. But why complain about something that isn't made for them, but for a large mass audience that actually generates some money for the studio. 

Maybe you are right and the movie would have been better and still entertained the mass audience, I don't know.


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## jleckie (Dec 18, 2014)

dahnielson @ Thu Dec 18 said:


> jleckie @ Thu Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> > dahnielson @ Sat Nov 29 said:
> ...



He scored 30+ films before "Aliens". His career started at and around 1977.


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## KEnK (Dec 18, 2014)

JH @ Thu Dec 18 said:


> KEnK @ December 18th said:
> 
> 
> > generic teen sword movie
> ...


Actually I was surprised that it was better than a generic teen sword movie.
The tale is Classic Literature, as highly regarded as Hamlet in some circles.
I think the Yared score approached it more from that angle than the cut & paste version Horner did.
I'm actually not complaining about this movie- as much as I am all movies.

The dumbing down of everything is not necessary.
Look at the complexity of what was 'popular music' in the 40's.

But you're right- people need the same exact thing in film after film-
Much better to just change the color of the guy's cape than to actually make a unique film.

And actually there's no real reason to write new scores for films.
We can just use bits and pieces of the last 50 or so.
That's largely what's being done anyway. :| 

Hah! 
I'm not arguing w/ you btw, my problem is I think there can be a coexistence 
of Art, Creativity and Commerce.
It used to be that way a lot
not so much now.

peace :mrgreen: 

k


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## Jetzer (Dec 19, 2014)

Maybe you are right and it can/could have worked. Anyway, nice to read


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## dahnielson (Dec 20, 2014)

jleckie @ Fri Dec 19 said:


> dahnielson @ Thu Dec 18 said:
> 
> 
> > jleckie @ Thu Dec 18 said:
> ...



Yes, I know that. But you still didn't answer my question, which one of those previous 30+ production was likewise hellish compared to _Aliens_ with it's enforced short turn around?

Oh, I see what you did there. By extremely selective quoting of me you made it look like I didn't know that his career begun earlier. So your intention was simply to make me look stupid? If you, or anyone else, actually read what I wrote _in context_ you would realize that I was talking about that _Aliens_ just like _Troy_ was an earlier project with extremely short turn around, I didn't say his career started with it.

Just saying.


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## jleckie (Dec 20, 2014)

:roll: 

Your quote read "Well, I think Horner cut his teeth on scoring Aliens." 

THAT is what I was addressing. Cutting your teeth on something involves having EXPERIENCE at something. And since Horner had 30 other films before that to 'cut his teeth on' your quote implies that you are unaware of his earlier history.


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