# Performance Samples Vista | Available now!



## zolhof

Vista – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com





Currently in post-production, demos sound gorgeous!

*Price: $249 intro, $339 full, $199 CM loyalty*

Released!


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## prodigalson

https://vi-control.net/community/th...mber-strings-by-p-s.97235/page-3#post-4622552


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## Simon Ravn

Wow... this sounds soooo promising!


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## GingerMaestro

This sounds great, I have all of Jaspers String Libraries, but I’m a bit confused, is this Nashville Chamber Strings in a different format, or is it something new. It says, chamber strings with a Symphonic sound. Nashville Chamber Strings doesn’t seem to be on the PS website at the moment.None the less, all very intriguing !


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## Batrawi

GingerMaestro said:


> This sounds great, I have all of Jaspers String Libraries, but I’m a bit confused, is this Nashville Chamber Strings in a different format, or is it something new. It says, chamber strings with a Symphonic sound. Nashville Chamber Strings doesn’t seem to be on the PS website at the moment.None the less, all very intriguing !


they are different apparently. I understand Nashville is a complete library (with various articulations) while this is only legato. Nashville is also mainly produced by Audio Ollie with some support from Jasper (?) if I understand correctly... so I don't think it would be retailed on performance sample's site.. like the NI symphony strings aren't sold by audiobro..


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## artomatic

"Rough" demos are out.
I hate it! 
Only because my wallet will suffer once more...
These samples are warm, fat and lovely to my ears.

And I thought I was done buying string samples! 

https://www.performancesamples.com/producing-vista/


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## chapbot

GingerMaestro said:


> This sounds great, I have all of Jaspers String Libraries, but I’m a bit confused, is this Nashville Chamber Strings in a different format, or is it something new. It says, chamber strings with a Symphonic sound. Nashville Chamber Strings doesn’t seem to be on the PS website at the moment.None the less, all very intriguing !


Nashville is Ollie, and it's been expected for about a year, keeps getting delayed but supposedly will be released any day now.


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## oxo

i'm in love. this is exactly the sound i have dreamed of since sample libraries have existed.


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## Gerbil

Brilliant. I love the Con Motos and SOTS so will definitely set aside some cash for these at some point.


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## Lionel Schmitt

Batrawi said:


> they are different apparently. I understand Nashville is a complete library (with various articulations) while this is only legato. Nashville is also mainly produced by Audio Ollie with some support from Jasper (?) if I understand correctly... so I don't think it would be retailed on performance sample's site.. like the NI symphony strings aren't sold by audiobro..


Yea, it will be an Audio Ollie release. But Jasper still did most of the sampling. Ollie's role was sound and recording. That's what he said a while ago if I remember well.

And Vista is unrelated.


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## kelexys

My god , the demo's sound so beautiful. When will this be released?


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## Geocranium

kelexys said:


> My god , the demo's sound so beautiful. When will this be released?



The most we've heard about a release window is "within 2020"


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## TomaeusD

Jasper just released Violin B from Solos of the Sea, so my guess is this will release within a couple weeks after that intro pricing has ended. I'm already seeing ads for Vista here so it has to be imminent. 

Also, Jasper talked about trying to find a workaround for allowing loyalty discounts with his current store setup, and it looks like a Con Moto loyalty intro price is TBA for Vista. Exciting times!


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## Batrawi

How much this is gonna be? probably in the same range as the con moto bundle (~$529)?
supposing that's the case, and supposing vista provides that extra bit of "motion" & "glides" or whatever that may be called in their legato performance... does this really justify the price tag?!! does this justify paying $280 more than something like this library which can already give very a similar feel/result?


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## Geocranium

The reason this is tempting for me is not just the sound, but the smaller section sizes that might be able to hit that more intimate chamber-style sound with closer miking, and the inclusion of a very soft dynamic layer (at least according to the product page), since the large majority of what I write is not in the forte+ range.


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## MA-Simon

"in the same range as the con moto bundle (~$529)?"

Imho, I can't see myself buying this, if it is north of the 250$ mark. It sounds fantastic for what it is, but at the end of the day, it IS just legatos. I don't see this competing for a product like cinematic studio strings.

If it is in that price range, that seems just beyond outlandish to me. I could buy Afflatus with that kind of money. And there is so much more on offer.

Edit: Open to bribes and persuasion atempts though...


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## Vik

MA-Simon said:


> I don't see this competing for a product like cinematic studio strings.


Sure, and/but they are two very different libraries, and both seem to have stuff the other library doesn't have. Unless someone decides to buy only one library, they aren't really competing.


Batrawi said:


> "motion" & "glides" or whatever that may be called in their legato performance


Glides = quite similar to portamento. The actual 'con moto', the movement, is in the bowing and vibrato, at least for the solo violins:



> • Bow-change pitch-memory legato, recorded_ con moto _(with movement in the bowing and vibrato).
> • “Active-bow” sustains (non-static longs that move and evolve while simultaneously maintaining the dynamic/timbre)


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## Batrawi

MA-Simon said:


> "in the same range as the con moto bundle (~$529)?"
> 
> Imho, I can't see myself buying this, if it is north of the 250$ mark. It sounds fantastic for what it is, but at the end of the day, it IS just legatos. I don't see this competing for a product like cinematic studio strings.
> 
> If it is in that price range, that seems just beyond outlandish to me. I could buy Afflatus with that kind of money. And there is so much more on offer.
> 
> Edit: Open to bribes and persuasion atempts though...


well you can buy the closest alternative (in my view) exactly @ that 250$ mark... soaring strings which you can hear in my above post. yes probably not exactly the same but overall hits that sweet spot that vista is aimed for..
That's the main reason why I'm always repelled by performance samples...I want to support them but they seem to ask for too much for something that is "special", but not "that special" imho...


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## lettucehat

Really no point in having this discussion over a speculated list price. It should be mentioned, though, that PS prices can go below 50% during black friday and flash sales have recently knocked 50% off some of their main libraries (Con Moto bundle, Caspian, Angry Brass). While they haven't said there will be a general intro price, rather than just the intro loyalty discount, there might be one... and then you can factor in BF discounts and such if you feel this isn't a must-have. We have to see what the loyalty discount is, but basically one could have bought their way into Vista through the recent 50% off Con Moto, which brought it down to around $250 IIRC. Even if the loyalty discount is not worth it, you're still left with a remarkable library that I think is right up there with the best in terms of lifelike, expressive, and playable legato strings. Not for everybody, but on sale it's a fair price for what it brings to the table.


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## borisb2

Was there any demos of that Nashville strings library floating around? ... just for comparision


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## chapbot

borisb2 said:


> Was there any demos of that Nashville strings library floating around? ... just for comparision


There were one or two but they have been taken down. Nashville was supposed to come out the end of last year and keeps getting put off.


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## borisb2

and the people who still have these mysterious demos in their head - how would they compare the sound of Nashville Chamber Strings to Vista? same same, but different?


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## jaketanner

Been waiting for NCS myself.


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## borisb2

Will NCS be less romantic? I just listened to Vista again, but I have to say I am covered on the romantic side with CSS/CSSS and Con Moto

To me Vista sounds like a 5-10% better version of Con Moto .. or am I missing something?


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## gst98

Batrawi said:


> How much this is gonna be? probably in the same range as the con moto bundle (~$529)?
> supposing that's the case, and supposing vista provides that extra bit of "motion" & "glides" or whatever that may be called in their legato performance... does this really justify the price tag?!! does this justify paying $280 more than something like this library which can already give very a similar feel/result?



To me it completley justifies it. I really love soaring strings but this doesn't come anywhere near the level of conviction that vista has - they are worlds apart in terms of the emotion. CSS does it really well too, but I think vista is taking it a step further. You only have to look at the comments on the vista page to see the repsonse it has gotten out of people, and SS never did that.


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## jaketanner

Not sure that it comes down to just a price issue because Jasper puts out pretty much the best products.

I think that for those of us that completed Con Moto not too long ago (less than a year let's say), buying into Vista...no matter how good...may be a bit of a hard sell. Had the completed CM been out for several years, it may start to feel old and Vista would be fresh. I still feel Con Moto is very fresh for me (had it longer than a year)...played with it last night and sounded awesome. So for me to spend upwards of $500 on legato and another harp just won't happen now..not when there are a few other libraries looking to be released soon. Just bad timing for me personally but I will resist the urge, maybe, no for sure.


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## Montisquirrel

jaketanner said:


> Not sure that it comes down to just a price issue because Jasper puts out pretty much the best products.
> 
> I think that for those of us that completed Con Moto not too long ago (less than a year let's say), buying into Vista...no matter how good...may be a bit of a hard sell. Had the completed CM been out for several years, it may start to feel old and Vista would be fresh. I still feel Con Moto is very fresh for me (had it longer than a year)...played with it last night and sounded awesome. So for me to spend upwards of $500 on legato and another harp just won't happen now..not when there are a few other libraries looking to be released soon. Just bad timing for me personally but I will resist the urge, maybe, no for sure.



Psst...please stop making price suggestions to the developer. 
Maybe it will not be 500$ but 150$. Solo Violin A is 139$ and Solo Violin B is 89$.
Keep in mind that Con Moto has much more players which (I guess) got paid. 
From his Blog it seams like Vista is something that grow from a small idea to the completed project very fast, so it may be was not that time-consuming. 
Also I believe that he is such a good guy who really really wants me to have this library, so it will not be 500$.


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## jaketanner

Montisquirrel said:


> Psst...please stop making price suggestions to the developer.
> Maybe it will not be 500$ but 150$. Solo Violin A is 139$ and Solo Violin B is 89$.
> Keep in mind that Con Moto has much more players which (I guess) got paid.
> From his Blog it seams like Vista is something that grow from a small idea to the completed project very fast, so it may be was not that time-consuming.
> Also I believe that he is such a good guy who really really wants me to have this library, so it will not be 500$.


I am just reiterating what others have speculated.. LOL But I hear you...I mean I don't need it, but if it's going to be $150 it's mine.. LOL


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## Lionel Schmitt

jaketanner said:


> Been waiting for NCS myself.


Really? Didn't notice.


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## jaketanner

DarkestShadow said:


> Really? Didn't notice.


If jasper didn’t make such great libraries it would be an issue. Lol


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## Wolf68

sounds like the real thing. musical and breathing string lines. love it how jasper blunk comes to the point. low sample footprint. no thousands mic positions. no uninteresting string articulations to blow up the volume of a string library. just legato. simply a goood legato. btw...bought today the solo violin of the seas II. excellent!


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## yiph2

Vista – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com





Doesn't seem like it will come out this soon, the website says:
Price / Release Date: TBA / Within 2020...


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## Vladimir Bulaev

Batrawi said:


> How much this is gonna be? probably in the same range as the con moto bundle (~$529)?
> supposing that's the case, and supposing vista provides that extra bit of "motion" & "glides" or whatever that may be called in their legato performance... does this really justify the price tag?!! does this justify paying $280 more than something like this library which can already give very a similar feel/result?


Nice try, but no. I feel this difference very strongly. If it were all that simple, but it is not. In my opinion this new library will be a wonderful addition to all the others, I hear new advances in the richness of sound and their melodic lines.


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## Vladimir Bulaev

But this is very interesting! Does this apply to vista or to another?

What is a private development? Another teaser...?

One way or another, this performance samples is worthy of close attention to their new things.


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## Montisquirrel

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> But this is very interesting! Does this apply to vista or to another?
> 
> What is a private development? Another teaser...?
> 
> One way or another, this performance samples is worthy of close attention to their new things.




This is not Vista. Vista has strings and a harp, no woods.


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## gst98

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> But this is very interesting! Does this apply to vista or to another?
> 
> What is a private development? Another teaser...?
> 
> One way or another, this performance samples is worthy of close attention to their new things.



Private dev is just a yet to be named project, or a private library. The Vista demos have been available for souncloud for a long time under these names, and were change once Vista had been announced.


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## Vladimir Bulaev

Montisquirrel said:


> harp


You cannot know for sure. Although judging by the audiodemo it is so. And what about woodwind, are we being teased for earlier? So we are ready for this for a long time in my opinion! Hahaha.


gst98 said:


> Private dev is just a yet to be named project, or a private library. The Vista demos have been available for souncloud for a long time under these names, and were change once Vista had been announced.


Thanks for the interpretation of these things. Now I understand that we can look forward to other releases such as woodwinds, nice.


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## Lionel Schmitt

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> But this is very interesting! Does this apply to vista or to another?
> 
> What is a private development? Another teaser...?
> 
> One way or another, this performance samples is worthy of close attention to their new things.



It's 3 years old haha. The idea of Vista was born some few months ago and has no focus on woods or runs.
Just something he did in his sampling journey. Hopefully something like that will appear in future libraries! But it's certainly not a 3 year old teaser.

Private development just means exactly that. Private libraries from the past that a handful of composers use. That's how Jasper's sampling career started and this section contains examples of these libraries.
And test sessions are part of that category too. Unlikely that many other unreleased libs will be put in this category first, didn't happen before Vista. And perhaps it was just a 'test' at this point, which is part of what this section is about alongside private developments.


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## Montisquirrel

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> You cannot know for sure. Although judging by the audiodemo it is so. And what about woodwind, are we being teased for earlier? So we are ready for this for a long time in my opinion! Hahaha.
> 
> Thanks for the interpretation of these things. Now I understand that we can look forward to other releases such as woodwinds, nice.



Quote from the Performance Samples Website: "Vista is comprised of five violins, four violas, three cellos, three basses, and a harp"


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## Vladimir Bulaev

In my opinion we are living in an amazing time, I am more than excited now, more than any of the developers / producers of marketers from the Spitfire.


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## NeonMediaKJT

Which do you reckon will come first, NCS or Vista?


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## jaketanner

Vista


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## artinro

Jasper has recently posted some new examples with pre-alphas of Vista over at Soundcloud. Superb sound: 

1)  

2) 

These are further along than earlier alpha builds and these demos include the 3 violin additional overlay patch that will be included in the library.


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## jaketanner

Man I want to love Vista...but to me it sounds like a 1940's string section...like if I am hearing it in black and white.. LOL. Is it just me? I just don't hear a modern sound here. Now it does sound good...just don't think it's a contemporary sound.


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## Lionel Schmitt

jaketanner said:


> Man I want to love Vista...but to me it sounds like a 1940's string section...like if I am hearing it in black and white.. LOL. Is it just me? I just don't hear a modern sound here. Now it does sound good...just don't think it's a contemporary sound.


That's the composer's job to make it sound modern if needed. 
Just about everything can be modern/old school depending on the context and processing.
I've been using the early violins patch in very modern cinematic music and with the right processing it's insane.


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## jaketanner

DarkestShadow said:


> That's the composer's job to make it sound modern if needed.
> Just about everything can be modern/old school depending on the context and processing.
> I've been using the early violins patch in very modern cinematic music and with the right processing it's insane.


I was not referring to the composition of the demo. I was referring to the sound of the strings. But being that all I have to go by is the demo, that’s what I based my opinion on. I have a LOT of PS libraries and truly hope I’m wrong here.


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## Lionel Schmitt

jaketanner said:


> I was not referring to the composition of the demo. I was referring to the sound of the strings. But being that all I have to go by is the demo, that’s what I based my opinion on. I have a LOT of PS libraries and truly hope I’m wrong here.


I was also referring the sound! 
Shaping the sound based on the composition is the composers task. If it needs to sound modern, make it sound modern. Certainly the raw recordings of modern sound strings, whether in libraries or compositions weren't always modern to begin with.


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## jaketanner

DarkestShadow said:


> I was also referring the sound!
> Shaping the sound based on the composition is the composers task. If it needs to sound modern, make it sound modern. Certainly the raw recordings of modern sound strings weren't always modern to begin with.


I have enough string libraries to know the difference between compositionally making it modern and actually sounding modern. I know you beta tested it and are kind of close to the library. And maybe a sound reminiscent to a throwback era is in turn “fresh”? Maybe im looking at this all wring? Is it different than what’s out there...yes!! So now I may need to rethink the direction I had planned. Lol. I have always been in full support of PS, so gonna wait for more demos before deciding on it of course.


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## Lionel Schmitt

jaketanner said:


> I have enough string libraries to know the difference between compositionally making it modern and actually sounding modern. I know you beta tested it and are kind of close to the library. And maybe a sound reminiscent to a throwback era is in turn “fresh”? Maybe im looking at this all wring? Is it different than what’s out there...yes!! So now I may need to rethink the direction I had planned. Lol. I have always been in full support of PS, so gonna wait for more demos before deciding on it of course.


ahhh.. not talking about compositionally making it sound modern, but with processing, so it indeed 'actually sounds modern'. 
No beta yet by the way. 
I write modern music 95% of the time I'm probably gonna be using Vista for legato most of the time. 
Can't see how it can't sound modern with right mixing.


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## jaketanner

DarkestShadow said:


> ahhh.. not talking about compositionally making it sound modern, but with processing, so it indeed 'actually sounds modern'.
> No beta yet by the way.
> I write modern music 95% of the time I'm probably gonna be using Vista for legato most of the time.
> Can't see how it can't sound modern with right mixing.


Maybe that’s it though...I don’t process strings heavily. Just a bit of highs or remove some mud usually. But keeping options open.


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## artinro

Obviously everyone’s taste in sound is different. Remember, these are smaller sections here. For me, personally, this is how strings should sound and it’s close to my ideal sound. I can also say, as someone who’s testing an early alpha of the violins, I agree with @DarkestShadow. Once these are finished and out, they’ll likely be my go-to legato.


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## Igorianych

artinro said:


> Obviously everyone’s taste in sound is different. Remember, these are smaller sections here. For me, personally, this is how strings should sound and it’s close to my ideal sound. I can also say, as someone who’s testing an early alpha of the violins, I agree with @DarkestShadow. Once these are finished and out, they’ll likely be my go-to legato.


Hi, *artinro*
What about articulations there? Or just legato? Is there a vibrato adjustment?


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## Simon Ravn

I think it will be able to pull off some classic Williams 80's sound. Empire of the Sun, E.T.-like. And by "pull off" I mean soundwise, of course it will still not sound like the real deal. But I think it'll bring something new, more intimate, "soaring", pronounced vibrato to the table. Maybe the sections are a bit small so sometimes you will need to mix it with something else. But I am so much looking forward to see what it can do.


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## Vladimir Bulaev

jaketanner said:


> Man I want to love Vista...but to me it sounds like a 1940's string section...like if I am hearing it in black and white.. LOL. Is it just me? I just don't hear a modern sound here. Now it does sound good...just don't think it's a contemporary sound.


Sheer nonsense. Sounds like not enough Flautando?


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## Eptesicus

artinro said:


> Jasper has recently posted some new examples with pre-alphas of Vista over at Soundcloud. Superb sound:
> 
> 1)
> 
> 2)
> 
> These are further along than earlier alpha builds and these demos include the 3 violin additional overlay patch that will be included in the library.




Wow. Parts of those pieces are stunning. The emotion in them is brilliant.


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## oxo

jaketanner said:


> Man I want to love Vista...but to me it sounds like a 1940's string section...like if I am hearing it in black and white.. LOL. Is it just me? I just don't hear a modern sound here. Now it does sound good...just don't think it's a contemporary sound.



and that's exactly what i love and what i've been looking for for years. i'm a huge fan of 1940 hollywood movies , the style, the lighting and their emotional strings. for me vista is the heaven. i don't need another library with contemporary sound. i have tons of strings on my hard drive. but none of them sound like that.


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## jaketanner

oxo said:


> and that's exactly what i love and what i've been looking for for years. i'm a huge fan of 1940 hollywood movies , the style, the lighting and their emotional strings. for me vista is the heaven. i don't need another library with contemporary sound. i have tons of strings on my hard drive. but none of them sound like that.


I soon rethought what I said, and looked at it as maybe sounding "old" was a good thing after all...


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## Cheezus

That sound is incredible.


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## MA-Simon

These demos sound stunning!


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## artinro

Igorianych said:


> Hi, *artinro*
> What about articulations there? Or just legato? Is there a vibrato adjustment?



This is a legato specialty library. But its VERY special, indeed. You're all in for a tremendous treat. No vibrato adjustment, but the library is extremely dynamic and the vibrato adjusts naturally through those dynamics. What you're hearing in those demos is mostly highest dynamic level. Remember, also, that this library will have unison legato. Big plus. I think future orchestral libraries from Jasper are really going to focus a ton on dynamics. Vista is clearly a major entrance into that territory.


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## lettucehat

artinro said:


> that this library will have unison legato



Can you elaborate on this? Like, full ensemble legato?


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## chapbot

artinro said:


> This is a legato specialty library. But its VERY special, indeed. You're all in for a tremendous treat. No vibrato adjustment, but the library is extremely dynamic and the vibrato adjusts naturally through those dynamics. What you're hearing in those demos is mostly highest dynamic level. Remember, also, that this library will have unison legato. Big plus. I think future orchestral libraries from Jasper are really going to focus a ton on dynamics. Vista is clearly a major entrance into that territory.


I'm going to get this the second it comes out. Since you've been a tester, what libraries would you say could be a good compliment to Vista for spics and staccato etc.


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## artinro

ALTM said:


> Can you elaborate on this? Like, full ensemble legato?



same-note legato (repetition legato).


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## artinro

chapbot said:


> I'm going to get this the second it comes out. Since you've been a tester, what libraries would you say could be a good compliment to Vista for spics and staccato etc.



Works very well with Berlin and Spitfire symphonic short notes. Well with CSS too. All obviously need a bit of work to match spaces etc.... but I’ve not found it hard to do so at all.


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## artinro

Regarding short notes....I hear some "murmurings" that Jasper is working on developing some other articulations (again, with deeply sampled dynamics) for a future project.


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## yiph2

Thanks @artinro!

I would like to ask if the legato transitions are bowed or fingered? Or both?


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## Circe

DarkestShadow said:


> That's the composer's job to make it sound modern if needed.
> Just about everything can be modern/old school depending on the context and processing.
> I've been using the early violins patch in very modern cinematic music and with the right processing it's insane.


As soon its out I gonna buy it because I d like to compose themes inspired in John Barry Strings, the demo its simply beautifullll. Im very tired to hear again and again strings that sound very pure and clear, these Strings could be incredible !! sure


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## Circe

Circe said:


> As soon its out I gonna buy it because I d like to compose themes inspired in John Barry Strings, the demo its simply beautifullll. Im very tired to hear again and again strings that sound very pure and clear, these Strings could be incredible !! sure
> PURE JOHN BARRY


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## artinro

yiph2 said:


> Thanks @artinro!
> 
> I would like to ask if the legato transitions are bowed or fingered? Or both?



Fingered, not bow change.


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## Saxer

It seems to be a special molto espressivo library (but that's much better than another molto depressivo library). Jasper's libraries are so playable and this one has a sound full of emotion. Might not fit into any piece but it brings something new into the sample world. I'm looking forward to try/buy it.


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## AndyP

jaketanner said:


> Man I want to love Vista...but to me it sounds like a 1940's string section...like if I am hearing it in black and white.. LOL. Is it just me? I just don't hear a modern sound here. Now it does sound good...just don't think it's a contemporary sound.


Oh man, I love that vintage sound. I will buy it just for that (if the price is right for CM users).


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## Pianolando

This library sounds absolutely lovely, I didn't think I needed more strings but will most likely pick this up at release and try to mix it with Berlin strings shorts, pizz and tremolo. I hope that will work since BS also has a bit smaller sections than most other offerings.


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## John R Wilson

Does Performance Samples often have sales? I'm looking to pick up the full bundle of Con Moto Strings but its simply way way to pricey for me at the bundles full price. At 50% off then maybe.


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## NeonMediaKJT

John R Wilson said:


> Does Performance Samples often have sales? I'm looking to pick up the Full bundle of Con Moto Strings but its simply way way to pricey for me at the bundles full price. At 50% off then maybe.


I think they had Con Motto at 50% off just recently.


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## John R Wilson

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I think they had Con Motto at 50% off just recently.



Yeah, I unfortunately only just missed it!! Wondering when they might do a 50% off sale again.


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## NeonMediaKJT

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah, I unfortunately only just missed it!! Wondering when they might do a 50% off sale again.


Me too haha. Didn't have money then, I do now. I've been eyeing JXL Low Brass for a while now and have decided to at least wait until Vista Strings comes out before making a decision. hopefully that'll be soon.


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## John R Wilson

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Me too haha. Didn't have money then, I do now. I've been eyeing JXL Low Brass for a while now and have decided to at least wait until Vista Strings comes out before making a decision. hopefully that'll be soon.



Same here. I would probably go for it at the 50% of price of around £250 but no way would I go for it at the full price of £509!! Vista strings also looks very good.


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## artinro

Just a heads up, Vista on track for a release this Q4. And that’s only the beginning


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## axb312

artinro said:


> Just a heads up, Vista on track for a release this Q4. And that’s only the beginning



Only the beginning of...?


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## artinro

axb312 said:


> Only the beginning of...?



...great things. You’ll see .


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## Beans

axb312 said:


> Only the beginning of...?



Yeah, just tell us now so we can budget.


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## Lionel Schmitt

artinro said:


> ...great things. You’ll see .


So, a prolific developer will do great things in the future? 
Damn, that's a bombshell!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

It sounds great for sure


----------



## John R Wilson

hbjdk said:


> It sounds great for sure



Does sound great! I've been waiting on a sale for the Con Moto series since the last one:( only just missed the last 50% off sale on it :(


----------



## jaketanner

artinro said:


> And that’s only the beginning


Opinion or fact? Is there more to this library that will be coming?


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Does sound great! I've been waiting on a sale for the Con Moto series since the last one:( only just missed the last 50% off sale on it :(


My favorite sounding library...and equally frustrating because it's only legato.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> My favorite sounding library...and equally frustrating because it's only legato.



I love the sound of it in the demos! Been after it since the last sale that I just missed on it. It is annoying it is only legato but hopefully it does mix all ok with other libaries.


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> I love the sound of it in the demos! Been after it since the last sale that I just missed on it. It is annoying it is only legato but hopefully it does mix all ok with other libaries.


The sound and playability are excellent for sure. I found mixing it with CSS is actually pretty good...with the various mic mixes, you can get them kind of close...since CSS is dark to begin with, it seems to match CM a bit better, and the sizes are similar.


----------



## Pianolando

That is great news, really looking forward to this!


----------



## artinro

jaketanner said:


> Opinion or fact? Is there more to this library that will be coming?



Fact, but I wasn't referring to Vista. 

What I do know is that Jasper is delving into extremely dynamic sampling which covers the range comprehensively - I think he mentioned 7 dynamics on some stuff. And more comprehensive, full-solution orchestral libraries, less specialized and more full solutions.


----------



## jaketanner

artinro said:


> Fact, but I wasn't referring to Vista.
> 
> What I do know is that Jasper is delving into extremely dynamic sampling which covers the range comprehensively - I think he mentioned 7 dynamics on some stuff. And more comprehensive, full-solution orchestral libraries, less specialized and more full solutions.


I like the sound of that...I remember hearing a flute demo that sounded great. But seems to be years away...it's taking so long for Vista to be released, that anything new might take well over a year.


----------



## chapbot

jaketanner said:


> I like the sound of that...I remember hearing a flute demo that sounded great. But seems to be years away...it's taking so long for Vista to be released, that anything new might take well over a year.


True, but if you think about it we've only heard about Vista recently and it looks like it's coming out within a few weeks... Compare that with Nashville LOL, I'll bet you anything we will see Vista before Nashville.


----------



## jaketanner

chapbot said:


> True, but if you think about it we've only heard about Vista recently and it looks like it's coming out within a few weeks... Compare that with Nashville LOL, I'll bet you anything we will see Vista before Nashville.


Agreed. Lol


----------



## jaketanner

John R Wilson said:


> Does sound great! I've been waiting on a sale for the Con Moto series since the last one:( only just missed the last 50% off sale on it :(


Here is your chance again...use code: CMDISCON60...60% off CM...discontinued after the 5th it seems. Just got an email this morning.


----------



## gst98

Is it a bad sign that Con Moto is being discontinued? that would suggest there is some redundancy somewhere, but Con Moto is a whole different deal to Vista despite the fact that they are both legato only.


----------



## Nicola74

I think Con Moto will be available only as a bundle after this period, but I should check again


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

gst98 said:


> Is it a bad sign that Con Moto is being discontinued? that would suggest there is some redundancy somewhere, but Con Moto is a whole different deal to Vista despite the fact that they are both legato only.


they put fluid shorts on sale when fluid shorts 2 came out. Probably getting people invested in their vista strings.


----------



## gst98

Ah yes if it goes to being a bundle only that makes more sense. Not very often a sample library actually gets discontinued. The fact that Jasper said there is an upgrade price to vista _and _60% off seems pretty great.


----------



## John R Wilson

jaketanner said:


> Here is your chance again...use code: CMDISCON60...60% off CM...discontinued after the 5th it seems. Just got an email this morning.



At last, thanks. Going to get these now!! Now just got to decide if want to just buy the whole bundle as individual sections or miss out any from it.


----------



## LamaRose

Wondering if this will be released for K5 or K6... and also if this will be more Logic friendly. The tone and dynamics are outstanding... and I would imagine, very inspirational under the fingers.


----------



## Vik

gst98 said:


> Really tempted by this, just wondering whether when vista comes out If I would ever use Con Moto.


In that case, it's probably a good idea to try to buy only one of the modules – if you think this is something you won't use a lot, just skip buying the others. IMO, the Con Moto violins and cello and has something which you can't get from Spitfire Studio Strings, Berlin Strings or CSS (and vice versa) – this:


----------



## artinro

Once Vista is out, Jasper is expanding into even more deeply dynamic sampling projects (lots of layers etc..). But the great thing is all of these libraries (con moto, vista and future) will work beautifully together. Blending and supplementing is a strength and will continue to be.


----------



## Hendrixon

I would like to see Jasper expanding in the direction of what he did with Solos Of The Sea – Violin B.
I don't think ppl understand how groundbreaking this little violin is. the technique he used to make this instrument, a process he perfected over time, produces a sound and play ability that is beyond what ever companies like VSL, Spitfire or OT are putting out.

Its up there with Sample Modeling's Trumpet. its not a full comprehensive instrument as SM's Trumpet, but it could EASILY be developed to be.

The difference between these two developers is that SM's process (using an anechoic chamber) don't work well for big instruments that react to room modes, and can't be used to produce full orchestras... while Jasper's approach has non of that.


I hope that somehow Jasper will read this.


----------



## John R Wilson

Hendrixon said:


> I would like to see Jasper expanding in the direction of what he did with Solos Of The Sea – Violin B.
> I don't think ppl understand how groundbreaking this little violin is. the technique he used to make this instrument, a process he perfected over time, produces a sound and play ability that is beyond what ever companies like VSL, Spitfire or OT are putting out.
> 
> Its up there with Sample Modeling's Trumpet. its not a full comprehensive instrument as SM's Trumpet, but it could EASILY be developed to be.
> 
> The difference between these two developers is that SM's process (using an anechoic chamber) don't work well for big instruments that react to room modes, and can't be used to produce full orchestras... while Jasper's approach has non of that.
> 
> 
> I hope that somehow Jasper will read this.



Ive just purchased some of the Con Motos. Its my first time using one of Jaspers llibraries and it's already a favourite. Best Legato string I have heard and it has such good playability.


----------



## Hendrixon

Con Moto is unique and for 60% off is a no brainer  
Now after you played and know what CM is... go listen to the demos of SOTS Violin B.
The legato there is on a different level EVEN compared to CM!

And it sold at intro price of $39!!!


----------



## John R Wilson

Hendrixon said:


> Con Moto is unique and for 60% off is a no brainer
> Now after you played and know what CM is... go listen to the demos of SOTS Violin B.
> The legato there is on a different level EVEN compared to CM!
> 
> And it sold at intro price of $39!!!



I'll check that out in a minute. I can imagine it is great, shame I missed that intro sale! I'm also pretty interested in VISTA now.


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> Not very often a sample library actually gets discontinued.



*spitfire shuffles uncomfortably*


----------



## Montisquirrel

Solo of the Sea Violin B is out.
Oceania II is out.
Perfperc III is out.
ConMoto is on sale.

If my stalking skills are good, there wouldn't have to be another library between now and Vista.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Montisquirrel said:


> Solo of the Sea Violin B is out.
> Oceania II is out.
> Perfperc III is out.
> ConMoto is on sale.
> 
> If my stalking skills are good, there wouldn't have to be another library between now and Vista.


(those have all been publicly mentioned, not leaking anything haha)

Angry Brass Soloists 
Fast Chamber Strings
Angry Winds
Solos of the Sea Cello and Viola
Last finishing touches on Nashville...
I bet I forgot something.

Yea, your stalking skills need work. :D


----------



## Montisquirrel

DarkestShadow said:


> (those have all been publicly mentioned, not leaking anything haha)
> 
> Angry Brass Soloists
> Fast Chamber Strings
> Angry Winds
> Solos of the Sea Cello and Viola
> Last finishing touches on Nashville...
> I bet I forgot something.
> 
> Yea, your stalking skills need work. :D



Haha
OK, ok...

Now please tell me the discount price tag of Vista for ConMoto owners, so I can decide if I buy ConMoto or not.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Montisquirrel said:


> Haha
> OK, ok...
> 
> Now please tell me the discount price tag of Vista for ConMoto owners, so I can decide if I buy ConMoto or not.


I'm not in the position to answer this! Maybe Jasper will via info mail. Not involved further with PS than beta testing and a bit of demo writing. And being a fan boy. :D


----------



## Raphioli

DarkestShadow said:


> (those have all been publicly mentioned, not leaking anything haha)
> 
> Angry Brass Soloists
> Fast Chamber Strings
> Angry Winds
> Solos of the Sea Cello and Viola
> Last finishing touches on Nashville...
> I bet I forgot something.
> 
> Yea, your stalking skills need work. :D



I hope he's working on a legato version of Oceania II.
Same singers, same space and I probably wouldn't need another epic choir library.


----------



## zolhof




----------



## Kurosawa

Yay!


----------



## Hendrixon

/Pseudo script mode on/

var(priorState, currentState);

while (priorState == currentState)(
priorState = get url 'https://www.performancesamples.com/'
Send, [F5]
Sleep, 1000
currentState = get url 'https://www.performancesamples.com/'
);

sound('\RING BELL LOUDLY.wav');

/Pseudo script mode off/


----------



## daan1412

I hope all the details are coming very soon, because I have to decide which string library I'm getting on Black Friday. Even though it seems like Vista is a legato/sustain library only, it's still very tempting because it sounds great judging from the demos.


----------



## Kurosawa

I'm torn between CSS and Vista


----------



## filipjonathan

Kurosawa said:


> I'm torn between CSS and Vista


How are you torn? CSS is a full library with all articulations while Vista is legato only. Kind of a no brainer to me.


----------



## chapbot

Kurosawa said:


> I'm torn between CSS and Vista


There is only one possible solution: get them both 🤣


----------



## Kurosawa

filipjonathan said:


> How are you torn? CSS is a full library with all articulations while Vista is legato only. Kind of a no brainer to me.


Vistas tone is too nice and pricewise they will be in the same range, i think


----------



## Raphioli

chapbot said:


> There is only one possible solution: get them both 🤣



Exactly.
Theres nothing to be torn between.
Gotta get them both!

But wait till we hear the demos for Nashville Strings.
Next thing we know, we might be thinking, gotta get them "all", instead of "both".


----------



## filipjonathan

Kurosawa said:


> Vistas tone is too nice and pricewise they will be in the same range, i think


Vista's tone is indeed nice but it needs to be waaay lower in price, to be in the same range with CSS because, again, you only get ONE articualation with it.


----------



## Nicola74

It seems it will be 249$ intro price and then 339 full


----------



## Sunny Schramm

VISTA intro & full pricing has been announced
More info: https://www.performancesamples.com/vista/


----------



## Raphioli

Really looking forward to the Con Moto loyalty price.


----------



## Scamper

Nicola74 said:


> It seems it will be 249$ intro price and then 339 full



That is actually starting to be tempting. I wouldn't have been very interested at Con Moto pricing, but that's pretty good.



ka00 said:


> Anyone know if it’s being released one section at a time like Con Moto?



It all looks like it's a complete package and there will be no single sections to buy.


----------



## MA-Simon

Fantastic price! Sign me up!


----------



## lettucehat

DarkestShadow said:


> (those have all been publicly mentioned, not leaking anything haha)
> 
> Angry Brass Soloists
> Fast Chamber Strings
> Angry Winds
> Solos of the Sea Cello and Viola
> Last finishing touches on Nashville...
> I bet I forgot something.
> 
> Yea, your stalking skills need work. :D



Wow.. other than stalking the Soundcloud where do you publicly come across stuff like this? I mean Fast Chamber Strings, Angry Winds, SOTS Cello/Viola.. would have no idea about these other than your post.

Edit: also... no commercial pizzicato in the works??


----------



## Casiquire

MA-Simon said:


> Fantastic price! Sign me up!


I'm not sure I agree!


----------



## artinro

ka00 said:


> Anyone know if it’s being released one section at a time like Con Moto?



No, all sections at once!


----------



## filipjonathan

$339 for a legato only string library?! What in the world?! Why would someone pay that much when they can get CSS, a complete string library for just a tiny bit more?! Even the intro price is too high in my opinion.


----------



## Pedro Camacho

Vista is a unique brilliant library. I can't describe anything else than this.
The tone is perfect, the room is optimal and it sounds huge and cinematic, out of the box!


----------



## artinro

Pedro Camacho said:


> Vista is a unique brilliant library. I can't describe anything else than this.
> The tone is perfect, the room is optimal and it sounds huge and cinematic, out of the box!



Agree with Pedro. As a beta tester, I can attest that this library is special. You're getting a boutique, bespoke library that Jasper has spent a ton of time researching and perfecting. The tone is stunning and it just works well in everything. One major positive? These are small sections, but they sound bigger than they are. So they work beautifully (really) as both a full, lush string orchestra AND can break out into divisi without sounding like a million players. Yes it's "just" legato, but to me, it's the best there is so far.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

filipjonathan said:


> $339 for a legato only string library?! What in the world?! Why would someone pay that much when they can get CSS, a complete string library for just a tiny bit more?! Even the intro price is too high in my opinion.


It's really simple - it's far beyond anything that's out there in the legato and sustain department.
I'd pay (if possible) just about any price below 800 for these. 

People that don't agree with the specialness can stick with their other libraries and ignore Vista. 
Simple again


----------



## Manaberry

filipjonathan said:


> $339 for a legato only string library?! What in the world?! Why would someone pay that much when they can get CSS, a complete string library for just a tiny bit more?! Even the intro price is too high in my opinion.



Damn, there is legato this time and nobody is happy :D


----------



## Guffy

Great price. Very excited to pick this up.


----------



## daan1412

Pretty expensive. I expected full price around $280, to be honest. To my ears it _does_ sound better than CSS at what it does, but then CSS still sounds great and you get all those articulations for $60 more.

Similarly to one of the users above, I'm considering getting Vista over CSS. I need mainly legatos anyway. This price point doesn't make it easier to decide, but I'm still leaning towards Vista at the moment. 

I'm curious whether or not Vista can perform runs. You can get pretty nice results with CSS legato as well as some of Spitfire's legato patches, as far as I know.


----------



## zolhof

filipjonathan said:


> $339 for a legato only string library?! What in the world?! Why would someone pay that much when they can get CSS, a complete string library for just a tiny bit more?! Even the intro price is too high in my opinion.




Hi Filip, while I can't speak for others, this particular sound/expressiveness is pure gold and something I can't find in any other libraries. I'm blessed to assist someone who own a wide range of tools, so I must have played most of the usual suspects and none can do what Vista does. Not even close!

There's a ton of clever scripting that goes into something like this and I wouldn't dare put a price on Jasper's expertise -- this is not his first rodeo. As consumers though, we sure can vote with our wallets. So yeah, when deadlines kick you in the butt and you need the right tool to get the job done, $ is totally subjective. I find Vista fairly priced for what it brings to the table.


----------



## gst98

DarkestShadow said:


> It's really simple - it's far beyond anything that's out there in the legato and sustain department.
> I'd pay (if possible) just about any price below 800 for these.
> 
> People that don't agree with the specialness can stick with their other libraries and ignore Vista.
> Simple again



I’m absolutely picking up Vista, but curious about Nashville.
Do you think the other articulations in Nashville will blend with vista? And do you think vista makes Nashville legatos redundant? Or maybe they still bring something interesting to the table. They sound like they are quite similar to Con moto. Thanks


----------



## Go To 11

I'm surprised this pricing is being announced within hours of Nashville Pricing going out. It's like Jasper can't decide which one he wants you to get!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

gst98 said:


> I’m absolutely picking up Vista, but curious about Nashville.
> Do you think the other articulations in Nashville will blend with vista? And do you think vista makes Nashville legatos redundant? Or maybe they still bring something interesting to the table. They sound like they are quite similar to Con moto. Thanks


I don't think they will blend well because the recording spaces are very different. Vista has a symphonic concert hall sound while Nashville has more of an immediate, closer studio studio sound. Even fartherst mics don't quite sound like concert hall recordings because well... they aren't.
I personally prefer Vista in the legato department by a longshot, based on the violins I played with and demos I heard.


Go To 11 said:


> I'm surprised this pricing is being announced within hours of Nashville Pricing going out. It's like Jasper can't decide which one he wants you to get!


NCS is distributed by AudioOllie - afaik Jasper just worked on the sampling/scripting side. So, I wouldn't really connected the marketing/release much.


----------



## tc9000

I might enrage someone, but I can't help thinking Vista sounds a bit Williams-esqe? Of course that's a ridiculous thing to write, and it's probably more the composition, but yeah - the soaring nature of this demo suggests Vista lends itself to "that" sound, whatever the hell that means... somehow...


----------



## Montisquirrel

It is not only a legato string library. There is also a nice sounding harp and I guess it is not just a little bonus.

I felt in love with this library after listening to the first demos and the intro price is totally fine if these strings are going to be as good as I expect.


----------



## Peter Satera

tc9000 said:


> I might enrage someone, but I can't help thinking Vista sounds a bit Williams-esqe? Of course that's a ridiculous thing to write, and it's probably more the composition, but yeah - the soaring nature of this demo suggests Vista lends itself to "that" sound, whatever the hell that means... somehow...




Exactly what I thought when hearing that.


----------



## LamaRose

I've been pretty hard on PS library prices in the past, but this sounds like a solid deal to me... if it plays nice with Logic, this will be my sole BF/Holiday purchase.


----------



## pawelmorytko

LamaRose said:


> if it plays nice with Logic


I hope so too, I'm really tempted to get it, the tone and character, and the realistic performance, there's nothing quite like it. And as for the price, I honestly don't get how people are disappointed by the price. The intro pricing is insanely good in my opinion, compare that to con moto $500+ bundle, this is half the price, arguably better and comes with a harp, for half the price! Sure it is only legato, but it's not _just_ the legato, to me its the performance, and the romantic vibrato and the incredible tone and character which adds so much life and musicality and makes other string libraries sound so flat and lifeless compared.


----------



## Salorom

The sound is amazing. From delicate pp to soaring fff, it feels organic, lush and precise at the same time.

If the heavy scripting behind all this doesn’t come in the way in terms of usability, then Jasper Blunk did a very impressive job. Good luck on his future endeavours!


----------



## Pianolando

The demos sound amazing, I will get this the moment it’s released!


----------



## GNP

tc9000 said:


> I might enrage someone, but I can't help thinking Vista sounds a bit Williams-esqe? Of course that's a ridiculous thing to write, and it's probably more the composition, but yeah - the soaring nature of this demo suggests Vista lends itself to "that" sound, whatever the hell that means... somehow...




Well, it does sound Williams-esque. It's also good for general sweeping orchestral stuff.

I might jump on this boat with you to add to potential outrage - I don't see any gigs coming my way that would require this kind of sound. Don't get me wrong, i appreciate how much effort was put into this. I can hear it with the demos. But I just don't see any gigs coming my way that requires this kind of sound...yet.


----------



## Henning

Must-buy for me. Like some other guys in this thread I was given an early Alpha version of the violins by Jasper. Even at that stage the violins felt expressive and alive under my fingers. I'm sure the end product will be killer! Not so sure about the Nashville strings though. From the demos they sound ok-ish but not game changing to me.


----------



## artinro

Folks, Jasper has a poll up on the PS Facebook page about what the community might like to see from a future orchestral project he's working on. Head on over and comment, or leave remarks here in this thread. This will, of course, be post-vista, which is going to be released as one product.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

GNP said:


> Well, it does sound Williams-esque. It's also good for general sweeping orchestral stuff.
> 
> I might jump on this boat with you to add to potential outrage - I don't see any gigs coming my way that would require this kind of sound. Don't get me wrong, i appreciate how much effort was put into this. I can hear it with the demos. But I just don't see any gigs coming my way that requires this kind of sound...yet.


I'm gonna use it in 95% of my projects that require legato. I kinda already do with the early Violins version.
I don't see it as being too specific or niche. It's just beautiful expressive legato with some more slur than usual and intense but not overbearing vibrato.
It also soars on top of modern epic stuff absolutely wonderfully with some processing. 


Thomas Bergersens custom violins sound almost the same as Vista... very strong vibrato and intensely slurred intervals. Fits into just about everything he sample based writes.
Will be the same with Vista for me. The other sections also don't sound quite as slurred as the vlins based on the audio examples.


----------



## tc9000

I just find that when I buy Performance Samples libraries, I don't regret it. They don't always fit into what I'm looking for, but this one is right up my street.


----------



## Raphioli

artinro said:


> Folks, Jasper has a poll up on the PS Facebook page about what the community might like to see from a future orchestral project he's working on. Head on over and comment, or leave remarks here in this thread. This will, of course, be post-vista, which is going to be released as one product.




Glad to know they still have plans to create a symphonic orchestra library.
A while back, I've seen a tab for their symphonic library on their website, but recently noticed it disappeared and thought it might have been canceled due to covid19 or something.


----------



## artinro

Raphioli said:


> Glad to know they still have plans to create a symphonic orchestra library.
> A while back, I've seen a tab for their symphonic library on their website, but recently noticed it disappeared and thought it might have been canceled due to covid19 or something.



This is unrelated to any previous projects as far as I know, and is in the same room as Vista/Oceania I&II.


----------



## jaketanner

filipjonathan said:


> $339 for a legato only string library?!


Keep in mind that you are getting the whole string section, not like it was with Con Moto...price out CM and you will see that it is more money..plus, you get 2 extra violins I believe AND a harp. Yes...it's legato only, but the majority of scoring (aside from epic) is usually legato...I personally have my eye on NSS...which Jasper was supposed to have a hand in it, but apparently it's not exactly what Jasper would have done (speculation)...they are after all, a competitor.


----------



## Raphioli

artinro said:


> This is unrelated to any previous projects as far as I know, and is in the same room as Vista/Oceania I&II.



Yes, that's what I was expecting.

Performance Samples have only focused on specific articulations (aside from the collaboration with Audio Ollie), but now they are doing a full orchestral library, which is pretty exciting.


----------



## GNP

DarkestShadow said:


> I'm gonna use it in 95% of my projects that require legato. I kinda already do with the early Violins version.
> I don't see it as being too specific or niche. It's just beautiful expressive legato with some more slur than usual and intense but not overbearing vibrato.
> It also soars on top of modern epic stuff absolutely wonderfully with some processing.
> 
> 
> Thomas Bergersens custom violins sound almost the same as Vista... very strong vibrato and intensely slurred intervals. Fits into just about everything he sample based writes.
> Will be the same with Vista for me. The other sections also don't sound quite as slurred as the vlins based on the audio examples.



Great for you! I just think it's too beautiful for me. TOOO BEAUUTIFULLLLLLLL


----------



## dadadave

I'm getting a Soaring Strings and 8dio Agitato Grandiose vibe from the Vista demos, would that be an apt comparison?


----------



## Vik

I have Soaring Strings, and my impression – based on having heard demos etc only of Vista, that SS generally is more soaring than Vista, and that Vista sounds 'sweeter' than SS. OTOH, SS has a special patch where only 3 of the 5 dynamic layers are used across the whole CC range, and that's very useful when non-soaring strings are needed.


----------



## Simon Ravn

daan1412 said:


> I'm curious whether or not Vista can perform runs. You can get pretty nice results with CSS legato as well as some of Spitfire's legato patches, as far as I know.




Nothing can perform runs. IMHO of course


----------



## Casiquire

jaketanner said:


> Keep in mind that you are getting the whole string section, not like it was with Con Moto...price out CM and you will see that it is more money..plus, you get 2 extra violins I believe AND a harp. Yes...it's legato only, but the majority of scoring (aside from epic) is usually legato...I personally have my eye on NSS...which Jasper was supposed to have a hand in it, but apparently it's not exactly what Jasper would have done (speculation)...they are after all, a competitor.


I think CM is insanely overpriced 🤷


----------



## GNP

Casiquire said:


> I think CM is insanely overpriced 🤷



Yeah with the pricing and given how I foresee how many projects I have where I'll *actually* need to use such soaring sounds....which is hardly.....ergh


----------



## evilantal

I'm wondering what would pair well with these for the remaining articulations? Nashville maybe?
I'm in the market for starting over with a new workhorse strings package/combo (having been slightly let down by Adagio 2.0)...


----------



## artinro

The new project (post Vista) is called "Voyage" and will cover the orchestra comprehensively. Same room as Vista and the Oceanias.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

artinro said:


> The new project (post Vista) is called "Voyage" and will cover the orchestra comprehensively. Same room as Vista and the Oceanias.


*Snap* Noice.


----------



## lettucehat

artinro said:


> The new project (post Vista) is called "Voyage" and will cover the orchestra comprehensively. Same room as Vista and the Oceanias.



Does Vista have accompanying articulations from the same sessions on the way?


----------



## artinro

ALTM said:


> Does Vista have accompanying articulations from the same sessions on the way?



No, Vista is legato only, plus harp...but voyage will fit with vista very well. Same room, same techniques. Vista was recorded earlier and is a separate project that is forthcoming quite soon.


----------



## lettucehat

artinro said:


> No, Vista is legato only, plus harp...but voyage will fit with vista very well. Same room, same techniques. Vista was recorded earlier and is a separate project that is forthcoming quite soon.



Right yeah that's more or less what I meant. Roughly same players and space, resulting in articulations that can complete the set.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

The only Con Moto i don't have is Violin B, is it worth getting? I was thinking I'd save for Vista instead but the fact individual CM instrument won't be available bugs me a little... Would you guys say Violin B is important? Seems like it makes more sense to get Vista and forget about Violin B but I'm not exactly sure.


----------



## Vik

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> The only Con Moto i don't have is Violin B, is it worth getting?


In this thread, you can hear both the A and B violins playing the same phrase. 
https://vi-control.net/community/th...o-examples-compared.91915/page-3#post-4564868


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Vik said:


> In this thread, you can hear both the A and B violins playing the same phrase.
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...o-examples-compared.91915/page-3#post-4564868



Thanks.


----------



## AndyP

I am very curious about the price for CM users. Could encourage me to get a little bit out of the money box.


----------



## Nyran

I completed Con Moto with the last sale (didn't have Violin A and Basses) and although I agree CM is quite expensive I love the sound of it and use it all the time in tandem with fluid shorts (and Caspian) and other string libraries. I was considering NSS for a while but listening to the examples posted and the demos I don't think I'm going to miss the legato on those and although I really like the shorts I don't think they justify the purchase. I'm definitely picking up Vista which sounds like nothing else and this time I think the intro pricing is fair and I hope for a nice discount for CM users (I would love for it to have at least an ensemble pizz patch which is rare on that string section size). I will start saving up for Voyage, Jasper's take on WW sounds yummy!


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

artinro said:


> The new project (post Vista) is called "Voyage" and will cover the orchestra comprehensively. Same room as Vista and the Oceanias.


Goodbye wallet, it was nice knowing ya. Bring on the performance samples woodwinds line


----------



## ScarletJerry

I wonder if the harp will be playable or a series of performance effects like River Harp?


----------



## pawelmorytko

Any news about the violin legato freebie? I assume Vista is just around the corner after the Black Friday sale, but no sign of the test patch yet. Either way, looking forward to the release!


----------



## AR

artinro said:


> The new project (post Vista) is called "Voyage" and will cover the orchestra comprehensively. Same room as Vista and the Oceanias.


Do you know in which room/hall they sampled Vista & Oceania?


----------



## AudioLoco

Pianolando said:


> I didn't think I needed more strings but



The story of my life, lately  
(Applies also to brass, percussion, etc etc)


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Please just let us know the upgrade price from Con Moto !


----------



## ZeeCount

Paul Jelfs said:


> Please just let us know the upgrade price from Con Moto !



$199 if you own all 5 sections of CM according to the website.






Vista – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## Raphioli

ZeeCount said:


> $199 if you own all 5 sections of CM according to the website.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vista – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com





> Offer is only applicable during the intro period for Vista.


When I read this, I literally scrolled several times up and down, searching for the Purchase button.

I think I need to calm down.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

need that freebie


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Ah! Well spotted that was not there last time I checked. I do feel there should be a bigger gap between the Intro Price and the CM owners price- Basically saving $50 if you bought all the Con Moto sections. 

I am not grumbling about the price, but the difference between those who have spent A LOT on Con Moto and new customers. Thoughts?


----------



## artinro

Paul Jelfs said:


> Ah! Well spotted that was not there last time I checked. I do feel there should be a bigger gap between the Intro Price and the CM owners price- Basically saving $50 if you bought all the Con Moto sections.
> 
> I am not grumbling about the price, but the difference between those who have spent A LOT on Con Moto and new customers. Thoughts?



Con Moto is a completely different product recorded in a completely different space. As such, I honestly don't think there's any reason for there to be a CM owners price, but it is nice that Jasper is offering one. I'm certainly biased, but as someone who is testing Vista, my opinion is that the library is dramatically underpriced even at full.


----------



## axb312

artinro said:


> Con Moto is a completely different product recorded in a completely different space. As such, I honestly don't think there's any reason for there to be a CM owners price, but it is nice that Jasper is offering one. I'm certainly biased, but as someone who is testing Vista, my opinion is that the library is dramatically underpriced even at full.



Welcome back Jasper.


----------



## oooooooooooooooooh

artinro said:


> Con Moto is a completely different product recorded in a completely different space. As such, I honestly don't think there's any reason for there to be a CM owners price, but it is nice that Jasper is offering one. I'm certainly biased, but as someone who is testing Vista, my opinion is that the library is dramatically underpriced even at full.



As much as I'd like you ask you 8 million questions, the one thing I'd like to ask is whether Fluid Shorts I is tonally a closer match to Con Moto or Vista?


----------



## artinro

axb312 said:


> Welcome back Jasper.



Cute, but untrue.


----------



## artinro

oooooooooooooooooh said:


> As much as I'd like you ask you 8 million questions, the one thing I'd like to ask is whether Fluid Shorts I is tonally a closer match to Con Moto or Vista?



I'd say CM is closer tonally to the fluid short series.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

ZeeCount said:


> $199 if you own all 5 sections of CM according to the website.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vista – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com


Wish this would include owners of 3 or 4 Con Moto volumes. :(


----------



## jaketanner

artinro said:


> The new project (post Vista) is called "Voyage" and will cover the orchestra comprehensively. Same room as Vista and the Oceanias.


Most likely will be a year or possibly more before we see this library, which is perfect because I'm tapped out.. LOL


----------



## artomatic

I opted for Jasper's Vista, rather than Ollie's NSS. 
Jasper's legato is insane! Besides, the energy and liveliness are what's been missing from my library of strings - but yet the quieter dynamics sound so lovely.
Congrats, Jasper!


----------



## Sovereign

I'd like to see the demo patch before pumping more money into this, especially since I don't use con moto nearly as often as I thought I would.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

artinro said:


> Con Moto is a completely different product recorded in a completely different space. As such, I honestly don't think there's any reason for there to be a CM owners price, but it is nice that Jasper is offering one. I'm certainly biased, but as someone who is testing Vista, my opinion is that the library is dramatically underpriced even at full.



I disagree, had i known he was gonna come out with a new and improved string library similar to Con Moto shortly after i would not have bought Con Moto and waited for Vista. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one and i think that's why he's offering this Con Moto price upgrade. But I appreciate that he does offer the upgrade. Just wish he'd consider those that don't own all volumes.


----------



## DawdlePuss

artinro said:


> I'd say CM is closer tonally to the fluid short series.



Would you say that it would be easy enough to blend Fluid Shorts with Vista, or might that take a bit of finagling?


----------



## artinro

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I disagree, had i known he was gonna come out with a new and improved string library similar to Con Moto shortly after i would not have bought Con Moto and waited for Vista. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one and i think that's why he's offering this Con Moto price upgrade. But I appreciate that he does offer the upgrade. Just wish he'd consider those that don't own all volumes.



I get where you're coming from. Totally do. But I don't look at Vista as a "new and improved" version of CM; it's completely different....another set of colors for your palette, as it were. Vista doesn't make CM obsolete. They are recorded in different spaces, with different players, different numbers of players and have completely different sounds AND legato techniques. Not "better" (obviously that's personal) but different. I'll be using Vista for MANY projects. Doesn't mean I'll not be using CM. I still do. A lot.


----------



## artinro

DawdlePuss said:


> Would you say that it would be easy enough to blend Fluid Shorts with Vista, or might that take a bit of finagling?



Yes, I think they can be blended successfully without all that much effort. I recently had a template open that easily combined CM with the early Vista patches. No problem getting the spaces to work together.


----------



## Manaberry

Temporary loyalty offer? I'm gonna pass on this one. I'm fine with Con Moto.


----------



## lettucehat

Loyalty prices are less about what's right and what's wrong, who's owed what, and more about just calculating a point where people who already have a top legato library (CM) will spring for another one that is apparently much better. Part of the issue is that CM is already too good! And people on this forum probably didn't do themselves any favors by indicating well in advance that they'll buy it sight unseen. But we know we will 

However if you just assumed that there would be various loyalty discounts for every combination of CM sections that exists, I think your expectations were unrealistic. I think both the CM sales and Vista have been pretty heavily advertised here, and I think it was pretty clear without being explicitly stated you needed to top off your CM collection to have a chance at a discount. If you saw that sections sale and decided you didn't want another section, Vista costs you $50 more than it would have, and the difference is you don't have some CM section you didn't want.

If the standard intro price were higher there would probably be no complaints.

The most similar situation I can think of is Damage 2 having an intro price of $300 and intro loyalty price of $200. All new library covering a pretty different sound, doesn't render old one obsolete.

I'm mostly kicking myself for not looking into CM earlier, but at the same time, the deep discounts were all pretty recent.


----------



## davidson

artinro said:


> I get where you're coming from. Totally do. But I don't look at Vista as a "new and improved" version of CM; it's completely different....another set of colors for your palette, as it were. Vista doesn't make CM obsolete. They are recorded in different spaces, with different players, different numbers of players and have completely different sounds AND legato techniques. Not "better" (obviously that's personal) but different. I'll be using Vista for MANY projects. Doesn't mean I'll not be using CM. I still do. A lot.



Any chance you could summarise the noticeable differences? For example, is the legato livelier, more energetic? Is the string sound more aggressive and biting?


----------



## GingerMaestro

ZeeCount said:


> $199 if you own all 5 sections of CM according to the website.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vista – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com


Yes Please ! it just sounds so warm and lush for such a small ensemble..


----------



## Sean

Anyone know if Vista will have the same issue as CSS with the variable delay? Sorry if this has been asked in this thread already.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sean said:


> Anyone know if Vista will have the same issue as CSS with the variable delay? Sorry if this has been asked in this thread already.


By issue you mean you have to use delay compensation? If so then yes that should be the case since since PS sample their instrument this way.


----------



## Sean

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> By issue you mean you have to use delay compensation? If so then yes that should be the case since since PS sample their instrument this way.


Yea that's what I meant. Thanks!


----------



## axb312

Sean said:


> Anyone know if Vista will have the same issue as CSS with the variable delay? Sorry if this has been asked in this thread already.



Not sure what issues CSS has....the variable delay is a feature.


----------



## Sean

axb312 said:


> Not sure what issues CSS has....the variable delay is a feature.


Well considering the amount of workarounds with Kontakt scripts and what not there are for it I don't know if I'd agree.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Sean said:


> Well considering the amount of workarounds with Kontakt scripts and what not there are for it I don't know if I'd agree.


I'd guess that Vista will have a consistent delay, since there'll be one legato type.

And I'd most certainly say CSS's variable delay is not an issue. It's a feature--one of the best around.


----------



## Sean

I absolutely hate the variable delay and its an issue for me so let's all just agree to disagree.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Sean said:


> I absolutely hate the variable delay and its an issue for me so let's all just agree to disagree.


Use the classic legato patches. Or diasable legato while composing. Or fix your velocity so you're limited to one legato type.

Look, more options and more realism comes with some tradeoffs. But you don't need to make use of those extra options if it's slowing you down. They are extra options, not issues. I'd hate for those extra options to be taken away because some people don't take the time to learn their instruments.


----------



## axb312

Sean said:


> I absolutely hate the variable delay and its an issue for me so let's all just agree to disagree.



Use classic legato to play stuff, quantize, switch to standard/ advanced and use a script to nudge notes. A bit slow but nothing to hate. Gets great results.


----------



## chapbot

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'd guess that Vista will have a consistent delay, since there'll be one legato type.
> 
> And I'd most certainly say CSS's variable delay is not an issue. It's a feature--one of the best around.


What one man calls a feature another man would call a pain in the ass 🤣


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

chapbot said:


> What one man calls a feature another man would call a pain in the ass 🤣


I am developing a product right now, and I have to choose. Should I take away features that add control because some people will misunderstand and say they are defects? It's a very real thing.


----------



## Fry777

Sean said:


> I absolutely hate the variable delay and its an issue for me so let's all just agree to disagree.



Like @Land of Missing Parts I have trouble figuring out why people are so angry at the feature.
If you are indeed referring to the 3 delays corresponding to the 3 legatos types, why not stick to only one type and use the corresponding delay all the time ? That would make CSS the same as a lot of other libs which only have one type of legato.
Unless you're using both shorts and longs on the same track, but then the criticism applies to a lot of other libs too, no ? (except Audio Imperia AFAIK)


----------



## Raphioli

Land of Missing Parts said:


> And I'd most certainly say CSS's variable delay is not an issue. It's a feature--one of the best around.



I'm not sure if it should be called a feature, but yeah, if that side-effect is what it takes to achieve realistic legato, I'll deal with it.
The end result is worth it and its what makes CSS special.
The variable delay is even mentioned in the walkthrough.
If you don't like it, there's a bunch of other libraries which have "regular" legato.
Or one could just use the classic patches like @Land of Missing Parts mentioned.



Fry777 said:


> That would make CSS the same as a lot of other libs which only have one type of legato.


This


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

The developer can't win. He offers an extra--while also offering an identical version without the extra--and still folks see it as a worse product than if he didn't ever offer the extra in the first place.

It's hard to read VI-C and not walk away with this message that you should dumb down the product. For real, folks. This is the message we are sending to developers.


----------



## Sean

I suppose I'm just lazy and don't want to work around the delay with CSS. I generally just prefer libraries that need less tweaking.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

As the thread has gone on to this can anyone chime in with the best way to use CSS , and all its legato goodness with Cubase ? 

I have the Legatos on their own patch - And want to use the 3 types if possible. So play in with Classic legato, Quantize , turn on advanced and then delay the legato by 180ms (I forget the exact value ) -But still will have the issue with the delays that are shorter than that? 

I tried the Kontakt script but everything was defaulting to 100ms for some reason and could not get it to work. 

If there is a script for Cubase, that works, I would love to see it. 
Not complaining just looking for help! 

Oh and back on Topic - Do you think the Vista Strings will have an ensemble patch? Unlikely with PS former products, but I always love an ensemble patch to start sketching with


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Sean said:


> I suppose I'm just lazy and don't want to work around the delay with CSS. I generally just prefer libraries that need less tweaking.


Use the classic legato patches. They are identical, but don't have variable legato. It's like having a library that needs less tweaking.


----------



## jaketanner

artinro said:


> I'm certainly biased, but as someone who is testing Vista, my opinion is that the library is dramatically underpriced even at full.


Must be something better than what we are hearing in the posted demos then. I have the full CM and it's awesome no doubt...but seems like getting Vista for owners of CM would be wasteful..meaning that if Vista is that much better, then CM would be sitting there doing nothing. Jasper needs to come out with more articulations...then he can charge whatever he wants and people will buy it...


----------



## Sean

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Use the classic legato patches. They are identical, but don't have variable legato. It's like having a library that needs less tweaking.


I think I am still having issues with the (non-variable) delay that I don't have with other string libraries. I believe this is the only library I own that has this much delay.


----------



## muziksculp

Hoping that the next CSS update, which will most likely be out shortly after CSW is released, will allow us to play wonderfully smooth legato notes, without having to deal with this pain in the a.., multiple negative delay values legato system. 

Maybe just one negative delay comp. is all that we will need to set, and we are done. no need for extra scripts to make working with it more efficient.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Sean said:


> I believe this is the only library I own that has this much delay.


The classic legato patch has virtually no delay. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## jaketanner

artomatic said:


> I opted for Jasper's Vista, rather than Ollie's NSS.
> Jasper's legato is insane! Besides, the energy and liveliness are what's been missing from my library of strings - but yet the quieter dynamics sound so lovely.
> Congrats, Jasper!


I agree about Jasper...I bought NSS, and I don't feel it's up to par with what Jasper would have put out...it's close, but I feel a bit deceived honestly...originally it was a collaboration between Ollie and Jasper, but seems that there has been some kind of falling out (just speculation), and it didn't turn out as expected...hence the delay in it's release (again, speculation). I would stick with Jasper 100%.


----------



## Raphioli

I hope Alex won't be like, "for our next library, lets just sacrifice the quality of the legato and prioritize playability, because people complain too much about the delay"...

There are plenty of other libraries that don't have a delay. Just buy one of them instead of CSS imo.


----------



## Sean

Land of Missing Parts said:


> The classic legato patch has virtually no delay. 🤷‍♂️


Well I don't know what it is but something is making it playback very differently from some other libraries I have so I would say it certainly doesn't behave differently. Whether or not that is delay or something else weird with the legato I can't say.


----------



## Scamper

Paul Jelfs said:


> As the thread has gone on to this can anyone chime in with the best way to use CSS , and all its legato goodness with Cubase ?
> 
> I have the Legatos on their own patch - And want to use the 3 types if possible. So play in with Classic legato, Quantize , turn on advanced and then delay the legato by 180ms (I forget the exact value ) -But still will have the issue with the delays that are shorter than that?



There are different ways to do it and it depends on your workflow what fits for you.

If you play the notes with classic legato (or the marcato articulation, which also has super little delay) and they're good enough on time, you don't even have to quantize to keep the humanization.
After this, what works well is the Logical Editor in Cubase, where you can setup presets to move the notes according to the delay they have.

So for example, I record my legato lines with marcato and already use the right velocity for the legato speed triggers. If anything is off, I quickly draw the correct velocities in the MIDI Editor. Than I can use the velocity levels within a Logical Editor preset to check, if it's a slow/medium/fast transition and move the note accordingly by the given amount of delay.
You can also add to the preset, that the note lengths are adjusted accordingly, so that everything still overlaps.

In the end, you can put all these Logical Editor presets in a macro, select all legato notes (you might have to deselect the first notes of the line manually), execute the macro, switch to advanced legato and bob's your uncle. Once you set it up, it's not much of a hassle.


Here are different solutions from VIC, that include presets:





Cubase Logical Editor presets for CSS legato delays


Hi all – I’ve made some Cubase Logical Editor Presets that (for me) solves the “how-to-deal-with-the-three-different-legato-speeds” dilemma when quantizing CSS (and CSSS). Here’s the work-flow: 1.Play the line in. 2.Hit one key command - this triggers a macro (consisting of 5 Logical Editor...




vi-control.net









CSS (Cinematic Studios) Control Panel - CSS/CSSS/CSB/CSW legato delay solution + other features (1.8, now with Winds!)


Hi, This community is grand and has provided so many useful things for me. I have been tooling with a script to automatically offset the notes in CSS, based on what articulation you have set and I would like to share this with you. A control panel for Cinematic Studio Strings, Cinematic Studio...




vi-control.net


----------



## artinro

jaketanner said:


> Must be something better than what we are hearing in the posted demos then. I have the full CM and it's awesome no doubt...but seems like getting Vista for owners of CM would be wasteful..meaning that if Vista is that much better, then CM would be sitting there doing nothing. Jasper needs to come out with more articulations...then he can charge whatever he wants and people will buy it...


 
I’m not sure why the discussion always ends up at what is “better.” Every live string section you hear sounds different, right? Different players, different section sizes, different spaces, different instruments etc.... And I imagine you’d prefer one over another to suit a particular piece, yes?

That’s how I see this. CM and Vista are different and sound different because of the above. They are completely different products. You’ll now have more choice for your music, which is a great thing. I plan on having both CM and Vista in my template.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

for CSS you literally just drag each note to the left a little bit and that's it. Never had issue with it. Even playing stuff in is easy as long as it's legato.


----------



## Montisquirrel

Guys....please open a new thread. Seriously...


----------



## Toecutter

jaketanner said:


> I agree about Jasper...I bought NSS, and I don't feel it's up to par with what Jasper would have put out...it's close, but I feel a bit deceived honestly...originally it was a collaboration between Ollie and Jasper, but seems that there has been some kind of falling out (just speculation), and it didn't turn out as expected...hence the delay in it's release (again, speculation). I would stick with Jasper 100%.


So he didn't do any work at all in NSS? I thought he was a core part of the library. I can't believe they threw away months of work and went with another guy. I saw Performance Samples post about not being associated with Audio Ollie but it sounded to me that the contribution was still there.


----------



## chapbot

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I am developing a product right now, and I have to choose. Should I take away features that add control because some people will misunderstand and say they are defects? It's a very real thing.


You absolutely should not remove features. And as I clearly said, what you call a feature I call a pain in the ass and will not use that library. Is that okay? I also love the tone of Hollywood strings but Play is such a nightmare I just won't use it (here's hoping the upcoming rework makes workflow much easier.)


----------



## ansthenia

Crap, I have all of Con Moto except Violins A...I wish they had the loyalty discount price up while CM was still available individually and on sale, I could've got Vista + CM Violins A for less that what I'm going to now pay for just Vista, lol. Annoying.


----------



## jaketanner

Toecutter said:


> So he didn't do any work at all in NSS? I thought he was a core part of the library. I can't believe they threw away months of work and went with another guy. I saw Performance Samples post about not being associated with Audio Ollie but it sounded to me that the contribution was still there.


I didn't say Jasper was out...I speculated that Jasper didn't have as much a hand as I originally thought based off what was said by him...was supposed to be a collaboration, but just how much I don't know. But now all I have to go by is the comparison between what Jasper is capable of, and what NSS is...and it is NOT bad...I guess I was hoping for a con Moto with full on articulations...


----------



## jaketanner

artinro said:


> I’m not sure why the discussion always ends up at what is “better.”


I was talking about Vista..better sound Vista, than what the demos show...was not talking about CM being better...


----------



## Hendrixon

Jake,
Jasper stated several times on his site that he is working on a third party library, which was later revealed to be Nashville Chamber Strings, so he obviously was the programmer of this lib.
Its also what I could make from the demos, the sound is different (I think good different) but the way this lib plays (again based on the demos) I think its all Jasper...

I liked NSS in the demos but so far I didn't buy it cause I'm building a pc and that costs me a big chunk of $$$  
Also with Vista coming and all the sales that starts, I'm trying to keep calm...
I loved the sound of AR1 but also decided to pass on it (that one was actually hard)


Btw, we're musicians, which means we're very emotional about what we use, so I totally get the feelings towards Jasper and Ollie's divorce. it shouldn't effect what we think about the product it self, a product is a product and stands by it self... but yea... we're idiots


----------



## jaketanner

Hendrixon said:


> Jake,
> Jasper stated several times on his site that he is working on a third party library, which was later revealed to be Nashville Chamber Strings, so he obviously was the programmer of this lib.
> Its also what I could make from the demos, the sound is different (I think good different) but the way this lib plays (again based on the demos) I think its all Jasper...
> 
> I liked NSS in the demos but so far I didn't buy it cause I'm building a pc and that costs me a big chunk of $$$
> Also with Vista coming and all the sales that starts, I'm trying to keep calm...
> I loved the sound of AR1 but also decided to pass on it (that one was actually hard)
> 
> 
> Btw, we're musicians, which means we're very emotional about what we use, so I totally get the feelings towards Jasper and Ollie's divorce. it shouldn't effect what we think about the product it self, a product is a product and stands by it self... but yea... we're idiots


Talk about emotional...years ago, maybe two at least, I emailed Jasper about con Moto violin not having the same attack as the cello...seems that there were extra samples recorded, or the method that allowed CM cello to have a slight attack...and he actually turned me on to this collaboration with Nashville strings...ever since I've been waiting patiently, so for me...this was a Jasper production all the way, otherwise why mention it. What I never took into account was to what capacity...I have both libraries and just seems like somewhere along the line things didn't go as planned...speculation of course. Why? Because it doesn't feel 100% Jasper...unless the difference is totally in the techniques of the recording process...which is where I think it's possible. Jasper not only codes the samples a certain way, but his recording technique is the key to getting the samples just right...

I agree NSS is good...I was going to possibly post a comparison tonight of the spiccato between NSS and Fluid Shorts. I had started a piece with FS, and switched to NSS...might post the two late tonight in the NSS thread.

If I were scoring a TV series...AR1 is a no brainer...but I don't need it at the moment. 

Sorry to derail this thread...now back on topic...$199 for CM customers is not a bad deal, considering you also get extra violins and a harp.


----------



## Raphioli

Hendrixon said:


> Btw, we're musicians, which means we're very emotional about what we use, so I totally get the feelings towards Jasper and Ollie's divorce. it shouldn't effect what we think about the product it self, a product is a product and stands by it self... but yea... we're idiots


I think its trust and expectations towards Mr. Jasper.
Most libraries are non-refundable and even with detailed walkthroughs and demos, you still don't get the whole picture. So there are things/flaws that you notice after you purchase and start playing with it.
And I think @jaketanner felt that he won't have to worry about those things if Mr. Jasper is fully involved. (that's how I kinda feel btw) He'll be 100% sure that he won't regret his purchase.
I think that's why he was repetitively asking if Mr. Jasper was involved.
But after you actually get the library and play with it, its all about the product itself, like you mentioned.

BTW, I'm mentioning this since this is a Performance Sample thread and not a NSS thread. 
But what I'm most disappointed about is that Performance Samples not being involved in the NSS expansion (because he is no longer associated with it).
He constantly innovates and wanted to see that innovation of his in the expansion and one example is the following.
There was a strings comparison which included Con Moto and NSS as well as other libraries on the NSS thread.
None of them did the arpeggio section near the end convincingly.
And then I remember this.


This could have been one of the patches NSS expansion could have had... (same sampling/programming technique used but sampled in the same space and players as NSS)
But the good news is that he's developing Voyage.
And we'll definitely see innovations like this in that library.
BTW, I think the video above is from "Fast Chamber Strings (in development)" which was mentioned here or on the NSS thread (speculating of course).


----------



## artinro

That playable fast strings video is demonstrating something that Jasper is developing for voyage.


----------



## borisb2

I'm sure it has been asked before:

will there be any vibrato control for Vista? .. all demos sound soo emotional and vibrato heavy - using CSS and CM I'm already covered with emotional strings


----------



## jaketanner

Raphioli said:


> I think its trust and expectations towards Mr. Jasper.
> Most libraries are non-refundable and even with detailed walkthroughs and demos, you still don't get the whole picture. So there are things/flaws that you notice after you purchase and start playing with it.
> And I think @jaketanner felt that he won't have to worry about those things if Mr. Jasper is fully involved. (that's how I kinda feel btw) He'll be 100% sure that he won't regret his purchase.
> I think that's why he was repetitively asking if Mr. Jasper was involved.
> But after you actually get the library and play with it, its all about the product itself, like you mentioned.


This is 100% accurate. It was a trust issue...being a big Performance Samples supporter, I expected the same level of playability that Jasper is famous for. Because this is a PS thread, that's all I will say...and Can't wait for Voyage.


----------



## nas

That's the thing that has gotten me really looking forward to this library. It's clear that sonically it really sings and sounds wonderful but it's the playability of his previous libraries (i.e. Con Moto) that takes it to the next level. You can get great results very quickly and don't have to spend ages massaging the controllers - a great asset when one is under a deadline. Some libraries from other developers can sound great but it takes quite a bit of time and effort to get them to really sing.


----------



## TeamLeader

How do we pre-order this one? I dont see a link to purchase? Thanks


----------



## Gerbil

TeamLeader said:


> How do we pre-order this one? I dont see a link to purchase? Thanks


I've never been able to preorder with PS. 

Its like a rite of passage: You basically have to keep hitting the refresh button, then at some point Jasper's early sale pops up out of its hole like a badger and then disappears as soon as seen. You need quick fingers and money ready in your account. Good luck!


----------



## TeamLeader

Gerbil said:


> pops up out of its hole like a badger and then disappears as soon as seen. You need quick fingers and money ready in your account!



 thanks


----------



## Montisquirrel

TeamLeader said:


> How do we pre-order this one? I dont see a link to purchase? Thanks



His Sale ends on the 14th. My guess: On the 14th there will be an Email with "only 24h left to save on the Early Black Friday Mega Sale + VISTA Free Demo for Kontakt" and a release on Sunday 15th 12 o'clock.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

In regard to CSS, you guys know if the shorts like stac and spic have a predelay? And were they recorded 1 note at a time or performance?


----------



## Montisquirrel

ScarletJerry said:


> I wonder if the harp will be playable or a series of performance effects like River Harp?



Quote and Demo from his Facebook:

"_Demonstration of the visceral nature of the Vista harp. All multi-samples and fully playable._"


----------



## turnerofwheels

I never did settle for a decent harp vi so there you go--there's my excuse to justify getting Vista


----------



## ScarletJerry

SHANE TURNER said:


> I never did settle for a decent harp vi so there you go--there's my excuse to justify getting Vista


That works. For me, my excuse is that I don't have any libraries that begin with a V!


----------



## GingerMaestro

Performance samples sale ends around about now...I wonder if there will be some vista news soon...looking forward to this one


----------



## averystemmler

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> In regard to CSS, you guys know if the shorts like stac and spic have a predelay? And were they recorded 1 note at a time or performance?



All non-legato (including the first note in a legato line) note starts have a 60ms attack. Basically, any time there's not a legato transition taking place, you can shift the note-on forward by 60ms.

And I'm not entirely certain, but my assumption is that the library was recorded "traditionally" - i.e., not from a performance as Performance Samples and Musical Sampling do.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

averystemmler said:


> All non-legato (including the first note in a legato line) note starts have a 60ms attack. Basically, any time there's not a legato transition taking place, you can shift the note-on forward by 60ms.



Thanks. And what about the legatos? Well, i guess I'll figure it out soon cause i think I'm finally going to get it on BF, but it would be nice to know today. That is if you have a minute. Thanks again.

edited: Never-mind i got the answer i was looking for. Cheers.


----------



## Toecutter

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> That's my last CSS question in this thread.


Every time you bump this thread to talk about CSS, Vista gets delayed by a week! STOP


----------



## clonewar

I love the Vista demos, definitely going to be picking it up. I don't have Con Moto (or anything from PS yet). Would you guys recommend just waiting for Vista? From the demos it seems like they kind of cover the same territory.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

clonewar said:


> I love the Vista demos, definitely going to be picking it up. I don't have Con Moto (or anything from PS yet). Would you guys recommend just waiting for Vista? From the demos it seems like they kind of cover the same territory.


Something tells me Vista will be more useful that Con Moto. Vista will have rebow and 4 velocity layer and more apparently... Plus the harp but I'm not impress with the harp demo so far.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

On the other hand, Con Mote has to violin sections.


----------



## Gerbil

Listen to the Con Moto Cellos and Basses demo. I'm not sure that Vista's going to be able to do that. It's a phenomenal, 'performed' sound and incredibly playable. Like so many of his instruments, they're so responsive when playing them in real time. The whole series is like that in fact, and the Sounds of the Sea fiddles.


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> On the other hand, Con Mote has to violin sections.


It does, but they're seated kind of funky, not like a traditional first and second violin section


----------



## artinro

Vista Celli example posted:


----------



## lettucehat

Also from the Facebook group:

_A few words from Blakus on Performance Samples libraries:
"Virtual instruments with both musicality and playability are hard to come by. Jasper has the unique ability to capture and program performances that bring emotion like no other samples I've found. His incredible attention to detail results in instruments that are inspiring to play and don't get in the way of the creative process. The fact that over 90% of my orchestral template consists of samples created by Jasper is testament to his craft."
– Blakus, Trailer Composer (Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker, Jedi: Fallen Order, Battlefield V)_

If you've heard this unbelievable mockup, some encouraging implications for how good Vista, and an eventual Voyage orchestra can be. "Over 90%" is big and I have to imagine that means the excellent strings are Jasper, perhaps an earlier version of Vista. The strings are so often where good Star Wars mockups start to fall apart, but these were utterly convincing.


----------



## GingerMaestro

artinro said:


> Vista Celli example posted:



This sounds SO good..


----------



## turnerofwheels

On the PS FB page Jasper said that the cello was still a work in progress, so I guess the release is still a little ways off--sounds worth the wait though!


----------



## AEF

SHANE TURNER said:


> On the PS FB page Jasper said that the cello was still a work in progress, so I guess the release is still a little ways off--sounds worth the wait though!



damnit! my most looked forward to release in ages.


----------



## I like music

Sorry, I haven't kept up with everything. What is Voyager? A PS 'complete' library?


----------



## artinro

I like music said:


> Sorry, I haven't kept up with everything. What is Voyager? A PS 'complete' library?



Voyage is Jasper's next major project. Full orchestra (strings, brass, ww, perc, harp, piano). Deep dynamics and in the same space as Vista and the two Oceania choirs.


----------



## Toecutter

Full orchestra?  With luck we'll see a release before the end of the decade.


----------



## Hendrixon

Toecutter said:


> Full orchestra?  With luck we'll see a release before the end of the decade.



Don't be such a downer... look at it as a voyage.


----------



## Raphioli

Its actually a good thing that he's releasing stuff when its actually ready. Just like Cinematic Studio Series.

Some developers just rush it out. (missing bugs that are obvious during a first play through)


----------



## lettucehat

Definitely. It is hard to avoid purchasing other complete libraries in the meantime though, but I'll try my best to hold off because I'm sure it will be top notch. Can't wait to hear details about what they'll include.


----------



## TomaeusD

With Voyage, @ScarletJerry will be able to own TWO libraries that begin with a V!


----------



## ScarletJerry

TomaeusD said:


> With Voyage, @ScarletJerry will be able to own TWO libraries that begin with a V!


Ha ha! Good point. I like your thinking!


----------



## batboysings

I'm very excited for Vista. I understand it's legato only, which is fine. But will that legato be more like a Spitfire Performance Legato, with some bells and whistles like built-in staccatos and marcatos triggered by velocity or speed? Or is it a serious, nothing-but-smooth legato?

I think I saw that there will be a polyphonic option? Can anyone confirm? Thanks!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Glorious!!!!!



batboysings said:


> I'm very excited for Vista. I understand it's legato only, which is fine. But will that legato be more like a Spitfire Performance Legato, with some bells and whistles like built-in staccatos and marcatos triggered by velocity or speed? Or is it a serious, nothing-but-smooth legato?
> 
> I think I saw that there will be a polyphonic option? Can anyone confirm? Thanks!


None of it, just classic legato with rebowing when holding the sustain pedal.

No poly legato planned, unless Jasper kidnaps someone to do it while working on his 100 other projects.


----------



## batboysings

Thanks! By "polyphonic" I should have said, is there an on/off switch for the legato, like in Con Moto? So one can play more than one note at a time?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

batboysings said:


> Thanks! By "polyphonic" I should have said, is there an on/off switch for the legato, like in Con Moto? So one can play more than one note at a time?


In this case, yea.


----------



## Toecutter

I heard a lot of that dreadful sucking effect in the last example. The website mentions same-bow note change repetitions "and more". Curious to see what else is possible because it sounds very limited from what I heard so far. Great tone though.


----------



## Raphioli

I only had positive impression from the last example/demo.
I loved how it sounds. And the string part writing, just love it!

The only thing that I was bothered a bit regarding demos is the rebow in the Cello example starting around 0:13. It kind of had that machine gun effect.
But then again, its still in alpha.


----------



## MA-Simon

To much bowed legato for me. I really miss the fingered/slurred legato here. Was not that apparent with the violins, but the slower cellos do suffer from it.


----------



## Johnny

I agree with all of the above, but in the end, Vista are just samples of strings and legatos only. That being said, I have yet to hear a string library convince me more despite what may sound unconvincing within the speed writing demo. Of all of my string libraries (I may be forgetting some): HW Strings, Adagio, Agitato, Soaring Strings, Century Strings, Cinestrings, LA Scoring Strings, EWSO Strings, Symphobia Strings, I have yet a sampled set of strings that can sound as lively and humanized as Vista appears. (To me) Topped with a FFF first Violin patch for upper dynamic layering? This seems really useful and sounds very realistic! (For Samples)


----------



## chapbot

When I listen to Vista demos I get light headed with excitement. Vista + Nashville willl put me in string Nirvana.


----------



## lettucehat

The dude jam packs the Soundcloud titles with explanatory qualifiers like "rough" and "pre-alpha" but I guess people don't care. There may be a lot of bow change but the examples of Vista all clearly have a lot of slurred legato, I'm wondering if it's speed-based decision-making like Hollywood Strings.


----------



## pawelmorytko

chapbot said:


> When I listen to Vista demos I get light headed with excitement. Vista + Nashville willl put me in string Nirvana.


I also get this strange feeling of excitement and a nice warm feeling in my tummy/heart.

I loved the new demo, but I think the basses were very boomy, might need some eq (not that it's a big deal)


----------



## lettucehat

I would definitely be interested to hear how it handles moderately short notes, like Con Moto or the SOTS ones can do a pretty decent mf staccato/tenuto. It's like a free, unmentioned perk in those libraries. I'm already convinced by the legato at this point.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

lettucehat said:


> The dude jam packs the Soundcloud titles with explanatory qualifiers like "rough" and "pre-alpha" but I guess people don't care. There may be a lot of bow change but the examples of Vista all clearly have a lot of slurred legato, I'm wondering if it's speed-based decision-making like Hollywood Strings.


If Vista's legatos are like Con Moto, the slurred you hear are legatos on larger intervals. And from my understanding, this is what's going on.


----------



## lettucehat

Right but what I can tell so far (and from written descriptions), Vista isn't rigidly bow change like CM. Like no matter what you do with CM you get that same bow change, even if it has to strain at high speeds. I'm guessing this has some kind of middle ground or intelligent switching, but only the testers can say for sure


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

lettucehat said:


> Right but what I can tell so far (and from written descriptions), Vista isn't rigidly bow change like CM. Like no matter what you do with CM you get that same bow change, even if it has to strain at high speeds. I'm guessing this has some kind of middle ground or intelligent switching, but only the testers can say for sure


I don't know. But i got to say those bow change down bother me one bit when i listen to the demos...


----------



## Toecutter

Violins are very fluid and got me hooked. Celli and basses are underwhelming in all demos I heard so far, they seem to suffer from the sucking effect, almost no variation in transitions, and lack the definition I expect to hear from a small group of players.

The constant bowing here is off-putting 

I'm intrigued about the "and more" part of the website description. Vista has potential but at $250 it better deliver a lot of variation and user control across all sections, not only violins. Unfortunately I don't think this will happen. Vista wasn't released yet and there are already talks about a better library in the works. Comment from developer

*It's not quite announced yet but Voyage is an upcoming fully comprehensive orchestra (strings, brass, ww, perc, harp, piano) from PS with a LOT of dynamics on the strings. Recorded in the same space as Vista. It's similar but evolved, continues along the "romantic" line. You can hear a bit of it here: *


----------



## Bman70

Toecutter said:


> *It's not quite announced yet but Voyage is an upcoming fully comprehensive orchestra (strings, brass, ww, perc, harp, piano) from PS with a LOT of dynamics on the strings. Recorded in the same space as Vista. It's similar but evolved, continues along the "romantic" line. You can hear a bit of it here: *




From about 6-8 seconds there are some "flattish" notes. Easy to do with fretless instruments but that part sounds a little too much for professional playing.


----------



## artinro

Folks, it's an alpha playthrough of the patches. It only has one of the two mic positions engaged. I can say, as a tester however, that it's anything but flat and can absolutely be extremely defined if you wish; the final library will allow you to dial in some close if you'd like. As for the transitions, I've found them to be very natural, very emotive, and very fitting of both the underlying dynamic and the particular interval. True, the user doesn't have control over the transitions (No portamento, bow change vs. fingered on velocity, for example), but because this library just sounds how I want, I haven't found I've missed that. Remember, this is a highly specialized legato library with a specific sound. It's not being presented as a "does it all" strings library. Personally, Jasper's attention to really nailing a specific sound per-project is why I gravitate to his work. Also, for Voyage, I wouldn't look at it as a "better" version of Vista. It's a completely different library with different players, but in the same space using Jasper's methods. So, consider these strings vs. what will eventually be Voyage's strings as just two completely different sections (sizes, players etc...) in the same space. You'll have more options. Ultimately, both will be great tools to have in your chest. I think you'll all really enjoy Vista when it's done. I've had a blast testing them out so far.


----------



## Bman70

artinro said:


> Folks, it's an alpha playthrough of the patches. It only has one of the two mic positions engaged. I can say, as a tester however, that it's anything but flat and can absolutely be extremely defined if you wish



I don't know if that was in reference to my comment, but by "flattish" I meant out of tune. Probably I'm only hearing it because I've played violin for 35 years so I'm sensitive to microtones sharp or flat. So it may sound fine to many.


----------



## artinro

Bman70 said:


> I don't know if that was in reference to my comment, but by "flattish" I meant out of tune. Probably I'm only hearing it because I've played violin for 35 years so I'm sensitive to microtones sharp or flat. So it may sound fine too many.



No, my remark wasn't about your comment. That example to which you're referring isn't from Vista. If memory serves it was just an experimental patch Jasper had worked on during the R&D phase of a future project.


----------



## Toecutter

Thanks for the information. You work for Performance Samples? We're close to release and that cello excerpt was posted 3 days ago. It should be a fair representation of what the final version will be, right? Ask Jasper to join the forum and give us some additional insight, please. I understand Vista is an one trick pony but I'm still trying to learn what it can actually do (*"and more"*) if we have any influence in the outcome of a performance other than simply playing notes and dynamics.


----------



## artinro

Toecutter said:


> Thanks for the information. You work for Performance Samples? We're close to release and that cello excerpt was posted 3 days ago. It should be a fair representation of what the final version will be, right? Ask Jasper to join the forum and give us some additional insight, please. I understand Vista is an one trick pony but I'm still trying to learn what it can actually do (*"and more"*) if we have any influence in the outcome of a performance other than simply playing notes and dynamics.



Happy to provide my thoughts and any information I can. As far as "influencing" the performance outside dynamics, you have control over the initial attack (via velocity) and if you hold down the sustain pedal while you repeat a pitch, you'll get "same note legato." No, I do not work for PS. I am just a composer who beta tests some of Jasper's libraries.


----------



## ZeeCount

Toecutter said:


> Ask Jasper to join the forum and give us some additional insight, please.



Jasper was on the forum, but he deleted his account (EDIT: he deleted it) about 3 months ago.


----------



## AR

In which hall was Vista recorded?


----------



## Sovereign

I really don't like the constant bowing/lack of fingered legato, and it seems just like in Jasper's other products the portamento is entirely random? Jasper should take this into account for "Voyage". Besides, I feel a bit 'burned' with Con Moto (have the complete thing) since the lack of repetition legato is really proving to be a downside for me. And while I quite like the timbre of the players and the hall this was recorded in, I'm not sure I need it. CSS can do this type of playing quite well too.


----------



## gussunkri

ZeeCount said:


> Jasper was on the forum, but he deleted his account (or was banned, not sure on this) about 3 months ago.


Mike said Jasper deleted his account so as not to be distracted from his work. (Just to stop a rumour of a ban from getting hold.)


----------



## Raphioli

gussunkri said:


> Mike said Jasper deleted his account so as not to be distracted from his work. (Just to stop a rumour of a ban from getting hold.)


Thats what I assumed, because I've seen recent ads (Vista, BF sale) by Performance Samples on this website.


----------



## TeamLeader

artinro said:


> Folks, it's an alpha playthrough of the patches. It only has one of the two mic positions engaged. I can say, as a tester however, that it's anything but flat and can absolutely be extremely defined if you wish; the final library will allow you to dial in some close if you'd like. <snip>



Thank you for your info ! What is the sample delay in the current beta, for playability?


----------



## artinro

TeamLeader said:


> Thank you for your info ! What is the sample delay in the current beta, for playability?



140ms across the library.


----------



## Pianolando

I have to say that the last cello example sounded very wierd to my ears, both the phrasing, sound and also musically I guess. Everything I’ve heard before that has sounded heavenly so I’m still hoping this is an extraordinary library and that the latest demo just wasn’t to my taste.


----------



## Christianus

I listened to the demos again. The tone sounds beautiful, but to be honest, I don't know if what I really like about those demos is actually the library or just that romantic writing. Or maybe I'm looking for an excuse not to buy another string library.


----------



## Montisquirrel

Demo for Vista by Ivan Torrent. I think its beautiful, both sound and writing.


----------



## axb312

Montisquirrel said:


> Demo for Vista by Ivan Torrent. I think its beautiful, both sound and writing.




Good stuff. Hearing a lot of the "sucking" effect though....


----------



## lettucehat

Man, sounds good to me. But I'll generally be using a lot less reverb than that, so the previous demos were already helpful enough.


----------



## DawdlePuss

axb312 said:


> Good stuff. Hearing a lot of the "sucking" effect though....


Could you clarify what you mean by this?


----------



## axb312

DawdlePuss said:


> Could you clarify what you mean by this?



Weird sucking effect on the note attacks? Thats what it sounds like to me anyway.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Unreal how good it sounds


----------



## Toecutter

axb312 said:


> Weird sucking effect on the note attacks? Thats what it sounds like to me anyway.


I agree, I like the writing but from 1:30 onwards the sucking effect is not cutting for me. Also too muddy for my taste, I've noticed this in other demos and it's very accentuated here by the reverb. We need to listen to the close microphones.


----------



## LamaRose

That "sucking" sound could likely be a combination of the bow change art with drastic/intense CC1 modulation... the degree and amelioration of said affect addressed via a short walkthrough or specific demo demonstration.


----------



## Bman70

I can't really hear any "sucking" over the roar of the choirs , is there a "naked" version (just strings)? Also I don't know how processed / unprocessed the sound is, if I had to guess I'd say it has some saturation and maybe exciter applied.


----------



## lettucehat

Yes I've always felt it's pretty obvious some transitions are bow change and some are fingered/slurred, and that's not the classic sucking sound...? Some gap is realistic and obviously it needs to be timed delicately, but is ultimately more realistic than not having the option. I love it in Con Moto and Hollywood Diamond.


----------



## TeamLeader

How do you folks workaround the 140 delay? Meaning how do you manage to play and ride dynamics etc live while tracking? thank you!


----------



## GingerMaestro

I generally use con moto to layer with another library. I copy the lines accross and then have -140 delay set in my DAW. I find It’s pretty difficult to play in real time. 

Or you could play in with another string library that doesn’t have the delay and copy across that way. It’s a bit of a fiddle (pardon the pun) but the results are worth it. I do the same thing with fluid shorts....


----------



## TeamLeader

GingerMaestro said:


> I generally use con moto to layer with another library. I copy the lines accross and then have -140 delay set in my DAW. I find It’s pretty difficult to play in real time.
> 
> Or you could play in with another string library that doesn’t have the delay and copy across that way. It’s a bit of a fiddle (pardon the pun) but the results are worth it. I do the same thing with fluid shorts....



Thank you! that is the kinda help i needed. In that scenario so you cant ride the vibrato, or dynamic layer choices in real-time whilst cutting, which makes me very sad and very unworkable for our deadlines here. :( Arghhhhh, I was so excited about this lib.


----------



## DawdlePuss

TeamLeader said:


> How do you folks workaround the 140 delay? Meaning how do you manage to play and ride dynamics etc live while tracking? thank you!


I have Solos of the Sea Violin A which also has a 140ms delay (ugh, that rhymed). At first it was slightly off-putting, although I didn't pay it much mind because I was busy being enraptured by the sound. Eventually, I did exactly what I do when I sing live in a loud setting; I stopped trying to wait for feedback and relied on my muscle memory to guide me. After working with it for a little bit, I just got used to letting my hand play as it naturally does through passages, and controlling the dynamics in anticipation of where I want to be. I would say that worked itself out in under an hour, probably under thirty minutes. Now I just warm up for a few phrases before I try to do anything seriously. Beyond that, I don't really notice it anymore, it just feels natural.


----------



## LamaRose

I like Colin O'Malley's approach: play the parts in live. He records an initial track sans a click - a melody line is perfect. Then he'll create a temp track.


----------



## Bman70

DawdlePuss said:


> I have Solos of the Sea Violin A which also has a 140ms delay (ugh, that rhymed). At first it was slightly off-putting, although I didn't pay it much mind because I was busy being enraptured by the sound. Eventually, I did exactly what I do when I sing live in a loud setting; I stopped trying to wait for feedback and relied on my muscle memory to guide me. After working with it for a little bit, I just got used to letting my hand play as it naturally does through passages, and controlling the dynamics in anticipation of where I want to be. I would say that worked itself out in under an hour, probably under thirty minutes. Now I just warm up for a few phrases before I try to do anything seriously. Beyond that, I don't really notice it anymore, it just feels natural.



What DAW are you using? I thought some of them had a feature to delay the whole track by X milliseconds, so you don't experience a sample delay while playing. Doesn't Cubase?


----------



## DawdlePuss

Bman70 said:


> What DAW are you using? I thought some of them had a feature to delay the whole track by X milliseconds, so you don't experience a sample delay while playing. Doesn't Cubase?


I'm using Studio One 4, but I haven't used that function. I have heard that it doesn't work properly as well. I adjust a lot of things by ear, including the timing of legato strings. As LamaRose suggested, I play almost all of my parts in live, and then tweak them afterward. I guess I'm not sure if you are meaning playing or playback. The sample delay adjustment would work for lining up playback properly, but it won't adjust the way they feel to play.


----------



## Bman70

DawdlePuss said:


> I'm using Studio One 4, but I haven't used that function. I have heard that it doesn't work properly as well. I adjust a lot of things by ear, including the timing of legato strings. As LamaRose suggested, I play almost all of my parts in live, and then tweak them afterward. I guess I'm not sure if you are meaning playing or playback. The sample delay adjustment would work for lining up playback properly, but it won't adjust the way they feel to play.



Ah OK, I thought maybe the feature would work during play / performing. I thought I saw Guy Michelmore use it that way in Cubase but maybe not. Yes I adjust by ear in Reason too, fortunately Nucleus lets the sample be adjusted for play and playback.


----------



## zolhof

New demo "The Ballroom"


----------



## Toecutter

How is it possible to like and dislike something at the same time? The tone... perfection! But the sucking effect on almost every note transition is killing me  Is this the script forcing bow changes?


----------



## Igorianych

Are there screenshots of the new library? I wonder how it will look


----------



## Montisquirrel

Igorianych said:


> Are there screenshots of the new library? I wonder how it will look



I don't know, but I guess you can look at all the other Performance Samples Libraries and you get the answer.


----------



## Igorianych

Oh, well, ok! I have a lot of their libraries. I thought that somehow it changed


----------



## Gerbil

Toecutter said:


> How is it possible to like and dislike something at the same time? The tone... perfection! But the sucking effect on almost every note transition is killing me  Is this the script forcing bow changes?


I think it's brought to the fore by the straight rhythm. The second the rhythm varies it shines.

I'm still debating this one. 8dio's Agitato strings isn't far away from being able to do this sort of thing (listen to the swing demo - 8th one down - on their Agitato bundle page). But I just know this is going to be a breeze to use and a pleasure to play.


----------



## Peros

Guys using performance samples libraries, is there usually a way to control the attack & release (even if it's in under the hood of kontakt)? and if yes would that help to diminish the "sucking" effect? I don't know why but in other demos, it wasn't as prominent and sounded more natural than in the last demo (at least to my ears) and while i absolutely love the tone, the last demo kind of made me second guess my choice of not buying anything on BF to save for this little baby.


----------



## Johnny

I think Vista sounds great. They are sampled string players and not live players, so there may be a sucking effect when stitching the performances back together again of course, but despite? I'm finding it really hard to complain about anything when you compare Vista to competitor string libraries. These just sound extremely convincing to me  I'll buy them!


----------



## Toecutter

It's a specialized legato library so it's reasonable to expect it to do smooth legato without bumps on every other transition? @Peros I also think the early demos were more natural. Could it be the programming? The violins preview nki will clear any doubts we may have XD


----------



## Peros

@Toecutter Could be!! but listening again to Performance Samples - Vista - Strings & Harp (no external verb / decca mic only / rough, no legato bal) - the 2nd on in the playlist on the site, its a pretty staright rhythm but sounds so natural and beautiful...the 10 min speed writing in alpha as well was near perfect to my ears (for a sample library obviously). Anyway like you said the demo will clear things up...hope it's soon cause i can hardly wait no more!!1


----------



## Pianolando

As many others I’ve been just about certain that I will buy this the day it’s released but each and every of the last few demos have made me increasingly unsure about that. Isn’t that curious? I have to go back to the first examples to see if I hear something now that I missed back then. 

Very much looking forward to trying this myself, then I will know within 5 minutes max if it is what I hope or not.


----------



## tabulius

The legato is very pronounced - and that is a good thing and a bad thing, depending on what you are writing. I relistened earlier demos and the new ones and the certain sucking effect is there, but it didn't seem as bad as I remembered. It really comes evident when the whole string section is playing with the same rhythm, but again that sound is by design. In some places, it sounds just perfect and soaring. I think this library has its own quirks and it shines in a certain type of writing, but in some cases, the repetitiveness of the samples is evident.

This new demo was great!


----------



## Sovereign

Toecutter said:


> It's a specialized legato library so it's reasonable to expect it to do smooth legato without bumps on every other transition? @Peros I also think the early demos were more natural. Could it be the programming? The violins preview nki will clear any doubts we may have XD


Yeah, that 'suction' sound really is noticeable. It's all bowed legato, just like Con Moto. I'm no string player myself but am pretty sure no real string section would be playing every note that way.


tabulius said:


> The legato is very pronounced - and that is a good thing and a bad thing, depending on what you are writing.


Pronounced fingered legato is just fine, pronounced bowed legato in this instance not so much IMHO.


----------



## JGRaynaud

Sovereign said:


> It's all bowed legato, just like Con Moto. [...]
> Pronounced fingered legato is just fine, pronounced bowed legato in this instance not so much IMHO.



Vista is slurred legato only. No rebow legato like Con Moto.


----------



## AndyP

I like the sound very much, but also I'm afraid that it doesn't make sense for me and I'm absolutely satisfied with Con Moto and my other string libraries. 
I wait until the next sale and then I decide.


----------



## Sovereign

JGRaynaud said:


> Vista is slurred legato only. No rebow legato like Con Moto.


That is certainly strange, as it is not what I am hearing at all. Slurred legato is easily recognizable and Vista sounds way too similar to Con Moto in that regard. Jasper could clear this up easily. Nice demo though.


----------



## Kevinside

Please release Vista... I am waiting so long for this new great library...


----------



## purple

This sounds really good. The legato is good too. I could see this layering super well with CSS and making for a really nice dramatic sound when it's needed.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

"Vista" is a symphonic sound of strings-beautiful! And Legato is very close to a natural and live performance. Emotional and romantic. With it, we will be able to get closer to the grandiose and sublime things of late romanticism, and this time not studio scoring stage, but classical concert hall. This is incredible!


----------



## Paul Jelfs

You are right about a small sucking sound....however, as composers , if we are writing for the public, then WE NEED to remember, how little most people (The Public) care , or could tell the difference between a well sampled built piece and a live orchestra. 98% won't. 

Most of us composers, also have obsessive compulsive issues (I certainly do) and are ever searching for a sound in our heads that we will probably never truly find- and if we did, there would be a new sound to chase .....

Think back to when you first got in to music and samples, and you were probably blown away by a Zero-G String pack or whatever and thought "I now can sound exactly like a string orchestra" and then a few years later you listen to your first demo and think - "Uhhhh so synthetic". 

When you have the budget for a live orchestra it is always going to be better -but plenty of amazing Video games and Tv shows have been made with only samples, and the general public, just about all of them, do not even think about the music, and when they do, they think "That's a lovely orchestral piece etc" 

This is not a criticism of people that are obsessive about their samples (I am terrible for it) but it can help to remember the above when it starts causing anxiety etc or buying things you really can't afford (Why Don't I listen to my own advice?!) 

These strings do sound lovely, though wont be perfect and we need to hold developers to the highest standards, otherwise things would never improve, so criticisms are good- but we should NEVER let the obsessiveness get out of hand and stop us doing mock-ups


----------



## Peros

Paul Jelfs said:


> You are right about a small sucking sound....however, as composers , if we are writing for the public, then WE NEED to remember, how little most people (The Public) care , or could tell the difference between a well sampled built piece and a live orchestra. 98% won't.
> 
> Most of us composers, also have obsessive compulsive issues (I certainly do) and are ever searching for a sound in our heads that we will probably never truly find- and if we did, there would be a new sound to chase .....
> 
> Think back to when you first got in to music and samples, and you were probably blown away by a Zero-G String pack or whatever and thought "I now can sound exactly like a string orchestra" and then a few years later you listen to your first demo and think - "Uhhhh so synthetic".
> 
> When you have the budget for a live orchestra it is always going to be better -but plenty of amazing Video games and Tv shows have been made with only samples, and the general public, just about all of them, do not even think about the music, and when they do, they think "That's a lovely orchestral piece etc"
> 
> This is not a criticism of people that are obsessive about their samples (I am terrible for it) but it can help to remember the above when it starts causing anxiety etc or buying things you really can't afford (Why Don't I listen to my own advice?!)
> 
> These strings do sound lovely, though wont be perfect and we need to hold developers to the highest standards, otherwise things would never improve, so criticisms are good- but we should NEVER let the obsessiveness get out of hand and stop us doing mock-ups


I agree with what you say. My issue is more the fact that it sounded better (to my ears at least) in the alpha stage than it does closer to the release date.


----------



## Kevinside

Vista has portamento...


----------



## Toecutter

The last demo is even worse :

I don't understand the excuses for a $250 library that is supposed to do legato only and fails to deliver simple transitions. No one is questioning the tone quality, it's there like in all Performance Samples libraries but the usability seems very narrow.

Listen to Remembrance from 40 seconds... it falls apart quickly, simple transitions all bumpy and fake. 1:15 simple line again horrible transitions. What is going on?

I will let something out, I feel Vista is overpriced based on Jasper hype. To me, it should be ONE legato option in a much larger string library.


----------



## Vik

Toecutter said:


> To me, it should be ONE legato option in a much larger string library.


What exactly do you mean by that?
About sampling strings in general... in order to get what we're looking for, we sometimes need to use samples/presets which aren't usable for all kinds of other stuff. For instance, there was some great stuff in Spitfire Mural which they changed when they created SSS – SSS is a clearly better library than Mural was, but Mural was worth keeping to get the the kind of attacks it had - they were very useful. SSS is more useful, but SSS also has stuff which means that one sometimes would use eg. Berlin Strings, CSS or Con Moto to get what one wants.

My feeling is that Vista isn't at all meant as a library which does all, not even when being limited to legato patches. If the kind if gradual dynamic increase which string players may have at the start of each note is repeated many times after each other, and/or if all the string players play these gradual 'fade-ins' at the same time, it may sound like a sucking effect in some situations, but will sound perfect in others.


Peros said:


> it sounded better (to my ears at least) in the alpha stage than it does closer to the release date.


If that's correct, that's because it's possible to create different variations of a library based on the same samples, meaning that they could release other material later, based on the same samples, which would sound different – like Spitfire did with the original Mural samples. Jasper is very clear about making libraries based on what he needs, and if others don't need what he needs – so be it. But nobody wants a library which suffers from an artificial sounding 'sucking effect', including Jasper. Personally, I wouldn't be worried about how the release version of Vista ends up before it's out. Btw, that 'Private Development' Vista demo posted some months ago also shows that playing style I'm talking about. My fav. Con Moto demo also has that:


----------



## Toecutter

Vik said:


> What exactly do you mean by that?


Imagine if the performance legato nki in Spitfire Chamber Strings cost $250. I meant that the legato nki in Vista should be one of the many articulations in a full strings library. I think that's the plan for Voyage but that will probably cost an arm and leg.

In my belief Vista doesn't do enough to justify the price tag. It barely does what it's supposed to (consistent legato) at least that's my opinion based on the audio tracks shared here recently. They are not tagged as "alpha patch" or "noodling" anymore... I think we're very close to release.


----------



## Pianolando

Don’t forget that programming is a huge part of how this library sounds, it’s very hard to draw any conclusions until it’s actually out in the wild. I still have high hopes, and if the legato is beautiful it’s definitely not overpriced for me, but to each his/her own I guess.


----------



## Kevinside

dito... Vista will be the perfect addition to con moto...


----------



## pawelmorytko

I totally get how some people might be put off by the price for what seems to be such little content (just legato). But honestly, the tone and quality alone of this justifies the price tag for me. Especially for someone like me, who doesn't like the tone or the legato on the Spitfire Chamber Strings. Vista manages to capture a really beautiful chamber string tone that manages to sound big, romantic and soaring. Definitely a tone I've never heard before in sampling.


----------



## artinro

Folks,

I'm an alpha/beta tester of Vista. I'm also fortunate enough to own every major string library available that's worth owning. Here are my thoughts: Vista gives you a sound and a feel that simply aren't possible with ANY other library regardless of how much tweaking or processing you do. That's a factor of the players, it's a factor of the space, micing and size of the ensembles. Is it an all-inclusive library? No. Does it offer a ton of tweaking to legato speeds, type, etc....? No. But when you need that sound, there's nothing else that will deliver. Is it worth $250 to you to be able to reproduce a sound that no other library yet can? No brainer for me. I'll also say that I do minimal processing to Vista. Just a tiny touch of EQ and a tiny bit of reverb. 

The good news is that you'll have a playable (limited range) patch soon, I believe. So you'll get to test it under your own fingers with your own processing. No guesswork.


----------



## Kevinside

any news, when Vista arrives... I cannot wait anymore...damm... I need that portamento...


----------



## Altauria

We should keep in mind that Jasper states on his website that his libraries are *not* (using my own words here) the usual Swiss Army pocket knives of libraries. They're different, specific, and appear to be highly focussed. While I may agree with the criticisms and concerns, I think this company's design philosophy provides a lot of context, and will help in any unnecessary disappointment. 

The sound alone gives me chills, and will most certainly be getting it.


----------



## LamaRose

artinro said:


> The good news is that you'll have a playable (limited range) patch soon, I believe. So you'll get to test it under your own fingers with your own processing. No guesswork.



This should be the norm... a test drive before driving off the lot... especially due to the near industry-wide policy of no-resales. It's a strange protective bubble that this industry enjoys. 

With that said, I appreciate the offer on Jasper's part... not just to check out a slice of the samples, but also to test drive on our particular daws/systems.


----------



## Vik

Toecutter said:


> Imagine if the performance legato nki in Spitfire Chamber Strings cost $250. I meant that the legato nki in Vista should be one of the many articulations in a full strings library. I think that's the plan for Voyage but that will probably cost an arm and leg.
> 
> In my belief Vista doesn't do enough to justify the price tag. It barely does what it's supposed to (consistent legato) at least that's my opinion based on the audio tracks shared here recently. They are not tagged as "alpha patch" or "noodling" anymore... I think we're very close to release.


SCS is a combination of Sable 1, 2, 3, 4 and Sable Ensembles, isn't it – and was (I could be wrong here?) priced at 399+399+399+399+250. SCS is a very complete product on it's own premises, but/and it contains a lot of samples that had been sold for several years before the product existed. The main work and expenses was probably paid for before SCS was created. The same goes for Mural/SSS. There are loads of libraries out there that I don't think are worth buying or that don't interest me, so I don't buy them. Don't buy Vista if you don't think these legatos are worth the price – easy peasy.

Personally, I haven't even heard all the demos yet, but since so many libraries fail at delivering convincing legatos (let alone portamentos), my assumption is that Vista will be an interesting product for many of those who have libraries without proper legato transitions. If Vista's own legato transitions won't end up as usable, people will buy something else. This is also true for those who look for another kind of legato that Lista will come with. If there will be a playable patch soon, all this is a should be a no-brainer IMO, unless Jasper is evil and deliver a test patch which sounds great and playable while the rest of Vista doesn't.


----------



## lettucehat

Honestly the identical discussion that takes place after every new demo is tiresome. Even CSS' legato sounds wonky in some moments of their own demos. I think everything has pretty much already been said that can be said prior to the test patch. Heartily agree about the test patch and the industry as a whole - it's kind of crazy how no test, no refund is the norm in an industry where professional libraries still cost in the hundreds. And it used to be worse. I respect companies that make try/test packs and in literally every situation where I downloaded one with actual interest to buy (i.e. not just trying to get free stuff) I bought the library. Agitato, Century Brass, Jade, etc. Wish more would do it, they'd sell more libraries. Either that or a la carte products like OT and to a certain extent PS too.


----------



## Sovereign

artinro said:


> I'm an alpha/beta tester of Vista. I'm also fortunate enough to own every major string library available that's worth owning. Here are my thoughts: Vista gives you a sound and a feel that simply aren't possible with ANY other library regardless of how much tweaking or processing you do.


 Based on my own experience CSS can do this romantic style just as well. So I'm not going along with the "not possible with another library".


----------



## artinro

Sovereign said:


> Based on my own experience CSS can do this romantic style just as well. So I'm not going along with the "not possible with another library".



Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree, obviously. I also own CSS. Great library.


----------



## Eptesicus

LamaRose said:


> This should be the norm... a test drive before driving off the lot... especially due to the near industry-wide policy of no-resales. It's a strange protective bubble that this industry enjoys.
> 
> With that said, I appreciate the offer on Jasper's part... not just to check out a slice of the samples, but also to test drive on our particular daws/systems.



I absolutely agree, and Jasper really is being great doing this.

Like you say, i think it is barmy that the industry has not made this the norm (limited range or limited time demos). Especially from developers who offer no resale.


----------



## pawelmorytko

CSS is also romantic sure, but it's not quite the same in terms of how the players are actually playing, and the tone of the strings. Plus to me, in a lot of the demos, what I really love about Vista, is that Jasper somehow managed to make some of the legato lines sound like they recorded the players playing that specific phrase, and not just some single notes put together


----------



## pawelmorytko

Also, as lovely as all these new demos are, I don't think a single demo has wowed me as much as this. I think it was this demo that made me decide I'm definitely buying this library. And I think it shows that Jasper really knows how to make this library sound great with his beautiful string writing and by working to the library's strengths.


----------



## chapbot

artinro said:


> Folks,
> 
> I'm an alpha/beta tester of Vista. I'm also fortunate enough to own every major string library available that's worth owning. Here are my thoughts: Vista gives you a sound and a feel that simply aren't possible with ANY other library regardless of how much tweaking or processing you do. That's a factor of the players, it's a factor of the space, micing and size of the ensembles. Is it an all-inclusive library? No. Does it offer a ton of tweaking to legato speeds, type, etc....? No. But when you need that sound, there's nothing else that will deliver. Is it worth $250 to you to be able to reproduce a sound that no other library yet can? No brainer for me. I'll also say that I do minimal processing to Vista. Just a tiny touch of EQ and a tiny bit of reverb.
> 
> The good news is that you'll have a playable (limited range) patch soon, I believe. So you'll get to test it under your own fingers with your own processing. No guesswork.


What you are saying is obvious from hearing the demos. Those who can't hear it and are bitching about the price simply don't need to buy it.


----------



## Nate Johnson

pawelmorytko said:


> Also, as lovely as all these new demos are, I don't think a single demo has wowed me as much as this. I think it was this demo that made me decide I'm definitely buying this library. And I think it shows that Jasper really knows how to make this library sound great with his beautiful string writing and by working to the library's strengths.




oh I toooootally agree. What a great example of what these strings can do! Although the real magic is the composition. Is he selling the ability to write like that too?


----------



## Scamper

There's a new demo out. 


I'd also wish for less of the sucking, but overall, I think it's fine so far. Let's see what the playable demo brings.


----------



## purple

It seems to me like the kind of library where the people who need it know who they are and that's all. It adds a certain stylistic choice to our toolboxes. To those who don't ever write in that style it will seem like an overpriced repeat of other string libraries but to me it seems it's a powerful layering tool.


----------



## GingerMaestro

In all seriousness, could someone give me a specific musical example of strings sucking, I sort of get the idea, but not entirely sure how it sounds and what makes it. Which string libraries don’t suck...

On a side note, I love the sound of Vista...


----------



## LamaRose

pawelmorytko said:


> Also, as lovely as all these new demos are, I don't think a single demo has wowed me as much as this. I think it was this demo that made me decide I'm definitely buying this library. And I think it shows that Jasper really knows how to make this library sound great with his beautiful string writing and by working to the library's strengths.




Same here! This and another demo which began with the harp reminded me of John Barry... the writing is excellent.


----------



## ScarletJerry

It's sounds very Williams-like to me, even though it's a chamber size ensemble. $250 for that sound, PLUS a harp library is expensive, but I don't think that it's terribly overpriced. I'm looking forward to the demo, and if I could make it sound like a small part of the demos that have been posted, I'll be picking it up! In addition, Jasper was very generous with his offer of freebies in the past (River Harp and solo violin library) so if you factor those free libraries in with this purchase, I think that makes this even a better value.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## AudioLoco

I am definitely interested. It sounds great. I am a "portamento enthusiast", can't wait. 
250$ is fine if it sounds this great and is truly playable.

I think we all combine libraries all the time, so not having other articulations is not such a limiting factor even if it would be nice to always have a coherent do-it-all library with every single articulation known to man and aliens.
Some libraries excel at some areas and we get results combining various articulations from each library so I don't see Vista as having a limiting factor, more a specialistic approach.


----------



## JGRaynaud

artinro said:


> Folks,
> 
> I'm an alpha/beta tester of Vista. I'm also fortunate enough to own every major string library available that's worth owning. Here are my thoughts: Vista gives you a sound and a feel that simply aren't possible with ANY other library regardless of how much tweaking or processing you do. That's a factor of the players, it's a factor of the space, micing and size of the ensembles. Is it an all-inclusive library? No. Does it offer a ton of tweaking to legato speeds, type, etc....? No. But when you need that sound, there's nothing else that will deliver. Is it worth $250 to you to be able to reproduce a sound that no other library yet can? No brainer for me. I'll also say that I do minimal processing to Vista. Just a tiny touch of EQ and a tiny bit of reverb.
> 
> The good news is that you'll have a playable (limited range) patch soon, I believe. So you'll get to test it under your own fingers with your own processing. No guesswork.



As a beta tester/demo writer for Vista, I 100% agree with you. I've rarely been impressed by libraries for the last 6-7 years and almost never get this "wow" feeling when I test a library (the last time was Freyja by Strezov Sampling). I got this feeling again with Vista. I immediately fell in love with it and really think it's a must have (it's gonna replace CSS in all my future projects) .

For those who don't know me, I make beta testing and demo writing for 70% of the sampling companies out there and almost never come on VI-Control to praise a library (just commenting sometimes when people have questions about a demo I made and I do that very objectively). If you see me commenting out of nowhere and praise something like I do for Vista it really means something.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

JGRaynaud said:


> (it's gonna replace CSS in all my future projects)


"Vista" will replace "CSS", not expand? I'm surprised.


----------



## JGRaynaud

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> "Vista" will replace "CSS", not expand? I'm surprised.


What I meant is that CSS was my to go library when it comes to legatos. Vista will be the new to go library at this level. It doesn't mean I will remove CSS from my templates at all, just that it won't be my first choice library when I write (but of course I'll still use it)

Edit: to make things more clear, for me Vista won't expand CSS, but it's gonna be the exact opposite : CSS will expand Vista.


----------



## mohsohsenshi

JGRaynaud said:


> As a beta tester/demo writer for Vista, I 100% agree with you. I've rarely been impressed by libraries for the last 6-7 years and almost never get this "wow" feeling when I test a library (the last time was Freyja by Strezov Sampling). I got this feeling again with Vista. I immediately fell in love with it and really think it's a must have (it's gonna replace CSS in all my future projects) .
> 
> For those who know me, I make beta testing and demo writing for 70% of the sampling companies out there and almost never come on VI-Control to praise a library (just commenting sometimes when people have questions about a demo I made and I do that very objectively). If you see me commenting out of nowhere and praise something like I do for Vista it really means something.



Wow!
Could you tell me about which articulations it contains ? Is it a one-trick legato performance library or a standard with basic articulations?


----------



## Secret Soundworks

JGRaynaud said:


> What I meant is that CSS was my to go library when it comes to legatos. Vista will be the new to go library at this level. It doesn't mean I will remove CSS from my templates at all, just that it won't be my first choice library when I write (but of course I'll still use it)
> 
> Edit: to make things more clear, for me Vista won't expand CSS, but it's gonna be the exact opposite : CSS will expand Vista.



Hey Jean, have you tested the combo of Vista + Fluid Shorts 1/2, for string short articulations? Would you say they go together well?

Thanks!


----------



## Raphioli

mohsohsenshi said:


> Wow!
> Could you tell me about which articulations it contains ? Is it a one-trick legato performance library or a standard with basic articulations?


It has already been said that the library focuses on expressive legato. (no shorts, etc)


----------



## JGRaynaud

Secret Soundworks said:


> Hey Jean, have you tested the combo of Vista + Fluid Shorts 1/2, for string short articulations? Would you say they go together well?
> 
> Thanks!


No I didn't test it with Fluid Shorts yet. I believe it should work well if you play with the mic positions of both libraries to make them match


----------



## Toecutter

Scamper said:


> There's a new demo out.
> 
> 
> I'd also wish for less of the sucking, but overall, I think it's fine so far. Let's see what the playable demo brings.



I like this one a lot!!! The bumps are less protruding. Good composer and programmer


----------



## pawelmorytko

I don't know if anyone else has been trying to see if they can get that Vista "sound" with their current strings. I've just been doodling around on my strings and the closest I managed to get was with CSS/CSSS violins/violas.


----------



## purple

pawelmorytko said:


> I don't know if anyone else has been trying to see if they can get that Vista "sound" with their current strings. I've just been doodling around on my strings and the closest I managed to get was with CSS/CSSS violins/violas.


It's really about the vibrato and expression in the samples that makes vista what it is... It's incredibly unique and I will probably buy it some day.


----------



## ScarletJerry

JGRaynaud said:


> As a beta tester/demo writer for Vista, I 100% agree with you. I've rarely been impressed by libraries for the last 6-7 years and almost never get this "wow" feeling when I test a library (the last time was Freyja by Strezov Sampling). I got this feeling again with Vista. I immediately fell in love with it and really think it's a must have (it's gonna replace CSS in all my future projects) .
> 
> For those who don't know me, I make beta testing and demo writing for 70% of the sampling companies out there and almost never come on VI-Control to praise a library (just commenting sometimes when people have questions about a demo I made and I do that very objectively). If you see me commenting out of nowhere and praise something like I do for Vista it really means something.


Can you tell us about the hard drive memory footprint? How big is the library?


----------



## Gerbil

pawelmorytko said:


> I don't know if anyone else has been trying to see if they can get that Vista "sound" with their current strings. I've just been doodling around on my strings and the closest I managed to get was with CSS/CSSS violins/violas.


That's nice in a different way. Less vibrato and movement in the sound but pleasant.


----------



## pawelmorytko

purple said:


> It's really about the vibrato and expression in the samples that makes vista what it is... It's incredibly unique and I will probably buy it some day.


Totally agree, I still definitely prefer the way Vista played that passage. There's just something about the Vista violins in particular, I think they are the highlight of the library in my opinion


----------



## Eptesicus

This certainly sounds gorgeous i have to admit. It sounds so much bigger than the section sizes used.

Does anyone know if:

A. There will be sustain patches too (active bow?)
B. Will there be the ability to change the transition between just slurred and portamento (or more extreme slur)?


----------



## Sovereign

pawelmorytko said:


> I don't know if anyone else has been trying to see if they can get that Vista "sound" with their current strings. I've just been doodling around on my strings and the closest I managed to get was with CSS/CSSS violins/violas.


Here's my quick attempt with CSS. Mockup may not be entirely accurate  and no harp included, but it is accurate enough I think. Obviously, Vista is a bit more restless in its movement. CSS is more timid. But IMHO not too different either. I do like the vista tone and ambience though. Still undecided.


----------



## Eptesicus

Sovereign said:


> Here's my quick attempt with CSS. Mockup may not be entirely accurate  and no harp included, but it is accurate enough I think. Obviously, Vista is a bit more restless in its movement. CSS is more timid. But IMHO not too different either. I do like the vista tone and ambience though. Still undecided.



CSS certainly sounds good playing this passage too (as it does playing most things ).

However, there is certainly something missing that Vista captures. CSS sounds a bit more sterile and less emotional.


----------



## Batrawi

pawelmorytko said:


> I don't know if anyone else has been trying to see if they can get that Vista "sound" with their current strings. I've just been doodling around on my strings and the closest I managed to get was with CSS/CSSS violins/violas.





Sovereign said:


> Here's my quick attempt with CSS. Mockup may not be entirely accurate  and no harp included, but it is accurate enough I think. Obviously, Vista is a bit more restless in its movement. CSS is more timid. But IMHO not too different either. I do like the vista tone and ambience though. Still undecided.


this is with soaring strings


----------



## Sovereign

Eptesicus said:


> However, there is certainly something missing that Vista captures. CSS sounds a bit more sterile and less emotional.


If the baseline is Vista, I most definitely agree. But are they different enough to warrant an additional purchase of $200+ if one already has CSS? Not sure about that. Some already find CSS too emotional with over the top vibrato.


----------



## Sovereign

Batrawi said:


> this is with soaring strings


Soaring Strings can handle this equally well, agreed.


----------



## Eptesicus

Sovereign said:


> If the baseline is Vista, I most definitely agree. But are they different enough to warrant an additional purchase of $200+ if one already has CSS? Not sure about that. Some already find CSS too emotional with over the top vibrato.



That is the million dollar (ok $249) question


----------



## Montisquirrel

Thanks for all the examples of other libraries. Your demos make me even more excited about Vista.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Sovereign said:


> Here's my quick attempt with CSS. Mockup may not be entirely accurate  and no harp included, but it is accurate enough I think. Obviously, Vista is a bit more restless in its movement. CSS is more timid. But IMHO not too different either. I do like the vista tone and ambience though. Still undecided.


Sounds really nice. Did you use the advanced legato for this or the regular legato? I'm probably going to get Vista because it has that sweet legato, but I like experimenting with string combinations.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

I own CSS and Soaring Strings too. It's cool to hear the comparisons! ... But to my ear Vista just adds that extra layer of wonder and realism to justify the purchase for me ... it's an incredible sounding color to add to the palette! Although to be honest, I think what's even more appealing about Vista and all the Performance Samples libraries in general is that programming them is so quick and easy- the playability is unmatched- to me, it makes composing more fun and less frustrating. So yeah, bring on Vista!


----------



## DawdlePuss

Batrawi said:


> this is with soaring strings



Thanks for posting this. Soaring Strings do indeed sound pretty great, but there is just something about that Vista demo that goes beyond.


----------



## artinro

Soaring strings is a great library, but it doesn’t handle things below “forte” particularly well. Vista is terrific at quiet dynamics too.


----------



## Batrawi

DawdlePuss said:


> Thanks for posting this. Soaring Strings do indeed sound pretty great, but there is just something about that Vista demo that goes beyond.


yeah, what I see vista doing better is accentuating the movement in the legato transitions and also providing some sort of portamento/glide effect for large intervals... yet these are not sufficiently justifying the price difference imho...


----------



## Casiquire

Batrawi said:


> this is with soaring strings


The tone is very different but the expression is more similar, in my opinion. It has that restless energy in a way CSS does not, but CSS is closer in tone.


----------



## Toecutter

Casiquire said:


> The tone is very different but the expression is more similar, in my opinion. It has that restless energy in a way CSS does not, but CSS is closer in tone.


How about mixing the two, anyone up for the challenge?


----------



## Toecutter

Batrawi said:


> this is with soaring strings


The soaring strings and CSS versions sound really good! Time to revisit Soaring Strings! Ive seen comments referring to Vista as "magical" mmmm... I think most of the magic lies in Jasper's romantic style. Of course Vista is a different library, different room and players, but I think our perception is heavily influenced by this sort of writing.


----------



## Sovereign

ScarletJerry said:


> Sounds really nice. Did you use the advanced legato for this or the regular legato? I'm probably going to get Vista because it has that sweet legato, but I like experimenting with string combinations.


I always use advanced. 

I added a couple of additional bars to my CSS mockup. I recommend putting it side by side with the original demo and flipping between the mockup and original for those interested to see just how much it differs.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Sovereign said:


> I always use advanced.
> 
> I added a couple of additional bars to my CSS mockup. I recommend putting it side by side with the original demo and flipping between the mockup and original for those interested to see just how much it differs.



Thanks for doing this. The difference is clearly in the magical legato that Vista has.

I was into high end audio when I was growing up, and I remember a quote from my father who said "You know, we can go to Radio Shack and pick up a turntable, amp and speakers for $500 that would give us 95% of the sound you are looking for, but you are looking to buy $3,000 worth of equipment for that extra 5%."

I think my decision to buy Vista is kind of like that.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

If someone has the MIDI, I'd love to try as well !


----------



## Batrawi

artinro said:


> Soaring strings is a great library, but it doesn’t handle things below “forte” particularly well. Vista is terrific at quiet dynamics too.


that's something I totally forgot about. If recall correctly @DarkestShadow (also a tester) have also praised Vista for how well it captures the lower dynamics. So having this+portamento transitions+evolved legato transitions/concept in general+more than 1 mic position altogether give a good reason for the price difference between Vista and Soaring Strings as an example. So I have to eat my previous words


----------



## nowimhere

Well, I got this page:





Vista – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com





but I can't find where to order?


----------



## artinro

nowimhere said:


> Well, I got this page:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vista – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but I can't find where to order?



not released yet.


----------



## Sovereign

Batrawi said:


> So I have to eat my previous words


Well, you also get a harp. I'm not sure though if the portamento is controllable.


----------



## Toecutter

Sovereign said:


> Well, you also get a harp. I'm not sure though if the portamento is controllable.


I think @artinro confirmed many pages ago that we don't have any control other than dynamics and microphones. It works very well in the harp demo!


----------



## Henning

I purchased Soaring Strings when it came out and already then people were arguing that it was much to pricey for "just" an over-the-top legato library. Can only say, the price has paid off multifold through projects I used it in. Quite sure Vista will be the same.


----------



## Niah2

> Sovereign said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always use advanced.
> 
> I added a couple of additional bars to my CSS mockup. I recommend putting it side by side with the original demo and flipping between the mockup and original for those interested to see just how much it differs.
Click to expand...


Wonderful as usual Sovereign.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Sovereign said:


> I always use advanced.
> 
> I added a couple of additional bars to my CSS mockup. I recommend putting it side by side with the original demo and flipping between the mockup and original for those interested to see just how much it differs.


*Sovereign, *Did you pick up Jasper's tune by ear or did you have access to the score?


----------



## Sovereign

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> *Sovereign, *Did you pick up Jasper's tune by ear or did you have access to the score?


No, no score, did this quickly by ear. Am sure it's not entirely accurate.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> No, no score, did this quickly by ear. Am sure it's not entirely accurate.



@Sovereign ,

A bit of an OT question.

When you use the Advanced Legato option of CSS, in a more timing sensitive busy composition, do you use any scripts to deal with the multiple-latencies, or you just adjust the notes manually as needed after you played them in ?

Also, do you just dial in a single negative latency value for the track when using Advanced Legato ?

I got a simple tip to restrict the velocities to one value, since the dynamics of the legatos are controlled via CC1, instead of velocity, that way I can just dial in a single negative delay value that will work for the legatos, even when using advanced. but I haven't tried this. What do you think about doing this with CSS ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## lettucehat

Henning said:


> I purchased Soaring Strings when it came out and already then people were arguing that it was much to pricey for "just" an over-the-top legato library. Can only say, the price has paid off multifold through projects I used it in. Quite sure Vista will be the same.



This, except for Agitato. Legato/sustains are the real make or break articulation. I wish I knew we could know more about the upcoming Voyage set, but until then I think I'll pay a good amount to avoid the dreaded "I don't know, it just sounds fake" from clients. Con Moto works pretty well with other libraries I have, so I imagine Vista won't take too much fuss.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Sovereign said:


> I always use advanced.
> 
> I added a couple of additional bars to my CSS mockup. I recommend putting it side by side with the original demo and flipping between the mockup and original for those interested to see just how much it differs.


Excellent CSS mock up of this music. Can you share your signal path / special mixing treatments / verbs, etc.? Thanks.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Henning said:


> I purchased Soaring Strings when it came out and already then people were arguing that it was much to pricey for "just" an over-the-top legato library. Can only say, the price has paid off multifold through projects I used it in. Quite sure Vista will be the same.


I honestly don't see an issue with Vista being just legato either. What I really love about Performance Samples libraries is that they say what they do, and they do it really amazingly well. Fluid Shorts are 79/89$, which is cheaper than Vista sure, but I also imagine spiccatos are a lot easier to sample than legato transitions. No one seems to complain abut Fluid Shorts being spiccato only though. But when I bought them I got them just for the spiccatos because of how connected they sounded and they are the main layer in my spiccato strings now.

Give me a library that can do one thing really well over an all in one that can do a lot of things okay at best any day.


----------



## nowimhere

pawelmorytko said:


> I honestly don't see an issue with Vista being just legato either. What I really love about Performance Samples libraries is that they say what they do, and they do it really amazingly well. Fluid Shorts are 79/89$, which is cheaper than Vista sure, but I also imagine spiccatos are a lot easier to sample than legato transitions. No one seems to complain abut Fluid Shorts being spiccato only though. But when I bought them I got them just for the spiccatos because of how connected they sounded and they are the main layer in my spiccato strings now.
> 
> Give me a library that can do one thing really well over an all in one that can do a lot of things okay at best any day.



I don't get it... How do people own it if it's not available yet? Like , I can't buy it... But others have it?

Just makes me want it lol


----------



## yiph2

nowimhere said:


> I don't get it... How do people own it if it's not available yet? Like , I can't buy it... But others have it?
> 
> Just makes me want it lol


They are beta testers


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Maybe useful for comparing Cinematic Studio Strings and Vista. Just a rough thing in a few minutes. 
No copy paste! Dedicated programming. 
Notable that Vista is still in Alpha here!

It's in the title but easier to read here

1.) Vista and CSS layered

2.) Vista only

3.) CSS only



Gullfoss, a touch of OTT and Raum (reverb) on the master.
Otherwise, no audio processing.


----------



## pawelmorytko

DarkestShadow said:


> Maybe useful for comparing Cinematic Studio Strings and Vista. Just a rough thing in a few minutes.
> No copy paste! Dedicated programming.
> Notable that Vista is still in Alpha here!
> 
> It's in the title but easier to read here
> 
> 1.) Vista and CSS layered
> 
> 2.) Vista only
> 
> 3.) CSS only
> 
> 
> 
> Gullfoss, a touch of OTT and Raum (reverb) on the master.
> Otherwise, no audio processing.



Wow love it! Especially the two layered together, thank you for this!


----------



## muziksculp

Interesting that PS Vista is still in Alpha Phase.

Hmmm.. Will it be released this year ?


----------



## pawelmorytko

What I really like is how performance samples blend so well with Cinematic Studio Series. I already blend Fluid Shorts with CSS, Caspian with CSB, and now will blend Vista with CSS legatos haha!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

pawelmorytko said:


> Wow love it! Especially the two layered together, thank you for this!


Yea, I suspected the two go together nicely! CSS is a more calm and airy and Vista is more expressive and lively even in the lower dynamics. I'd say Vista is the absolute king for part writing heavy music and lyrical/romantic music due to the greater expression and more defined and cohesive legato, while CSS is better for slow moving/atmospheric more chord based tracks due to the more smooth and even tone and less strong intervals.


----------



## lettucehat

I imagine it's not still in Alpha but the copy that many have or had when they made demos is older.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

muziksculp said:


> Interesting that PS Vista is still in Alpha Phase.
> 
> Hmmm.. Will it be released this year ?


My version is in Alpha, it's from 2-3 weeks ago so it certainly has progressed greatly already.


----------



## muziksculp

DarkestShadow said:


> My version is in Alpha, it's from 2-3 weeks ago so it certainly has progressed greatly already.



OK. Thanks for the feedback. 

Is Vista just a Legato library ?


----------



## purple

DarkestShadow said:


> Maybe useful for comparing Cinematic Studio Strings and Vista. Just a rough thing in a few minutes.
> No copy paste! Dedicated programming.
> Notable that Vista is still in Alpha here!
> 
> It's in the title but easier to read here
> 
> 1.) Vista and CSS layered
> 
> 2.) Vista only
> 
> 3.) CSS only
> 
> 
> 
> Gullfoss, a touch of OTT and Raum (reverb) on the master.
> Otherwise, no audio processing.



Yep, instabuy!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

muziksculp said:


> OK. Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> Is Vista just a Legato library ?


Yea.
Has been discussed on just about all pages here


----------



## muziksculp

DarkestShadow said:


> Yea.
> Has been discussed on just about all pages here



Thanks. 

I just wanted to do a final check on this detail since you are a beta-tester


----------



## ka00

I could be wrong, but I feel like in some of the demos I am hearing what feels like unnatural little dips in volume without dips in vibrato intensity. Could be from alpha examples only, not sure. Anyone else hear that?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

muziksculp said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I just wanted to do a final check on this detail since you are a beta-tester


Well, there is a harp ha... otherwise, legato.


----------



## Rob Elliott

DarkestShadow said:


> Maybe useful for comparing Cinematic Studio Strings and Vista. Just a rough thing in a few minutes.
> No copy paste! Dedicated programming.
> Notable that Vista is still in Alpha here!
> 
> It's in the title but easier to read here
> 
> 1.) Vista and CSS layered
> 
> 2.) Vista only
> 
> 3.) CSS only
> 
> 
> 
> Gullfoss, a touch of OTT and Raum (reverb) on the master.
> Otherwise, no audio processing.



Thanks for this...the most helpful demo yet on whether to pull the trigger or not. I am one of those wierdos that rarely 'blends' library. I usually like to retain the tone and voice of a single library for use. This demo also shows me why I love CSS - BUT - there is utility for Vista and will likely pick it up. When I just need more 'pathos' for something, I think Vista will delivery well. Thanks again.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Made a try this morning with another string library 
Kudos to @Sovereign for the transcription !


----------



## Fry777

Which string library is this @whitewasteland ? Afflatus ?

@DarkestShadow @artinro Any chance for a really low dynamic passage ?


----------



## Scamper

whitewasteland said:


> Made a try this morning with another string library
> Kudos to @Sovereign for the transcription !



I like the sound of it, but the legato isn't quite on par, I think.




Sovereign said:


> I always use advanced.
> 
> I added a couple of additional bars to my CSS mockup. I recommend putting it side by side with the original demo and flipping between the mockup and original for those interested to see just how much it differs.



This one is good.

A while ago, I also tried to recreate this teaser with CSS including the harp. I'm sure the transcription is off, but at this point I'm actually interested in the correct score.
Just for a different take, here's mine. During the process, I noticed that CSS is doing fine with this, but Vista is still a different beast, so I'll get it anyways.


----------



## Raphioli

Fry777 said:


> Which string library is this @whitewasteland ? Afflatus ?



My guess is NSS.


----------



## Batrawi

whitewasteland said:


> Made a try this morning with another string library
> Kudos to @Sovereign for the transcription !


My main guess is century strings... otherwise probably aflatus


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

whitewasteland said:


> Made a try this morning with another string library
> Kudos to @Sovereign for the transcription !


dear god... I'm glad to have Vista....


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Your mockup was really good @Scamper !

My test was with Nashville Scoring Strings. This is almost the opposite of Vista : only bow change legato ^^


----------



## Scamper

whitewasteland said:


> My test was with Nashville Scoring Strings. This is almost the opposite of Vista : only bow change legato ^^



Oh I see. So unfortunate, that it's only bowed legato in NSS, but I think Vista is an even better companion to NSS than CSS, because the sound also seems to be a closer fit.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Scamper said:


> Oh I see. So unfortunate, that it's only bowed legato in NSS, but I think Vista is an even better companion to NSS than CSS, because the sound also seems to be a closer fit.


Agreed ! Curious to make some layering tests with the Vista violin freebie when it comes out.


----------



## muziksculp

Given PS Vista is only a Legato Library, I wonder, will it be easy to integrate it into other Strings sample libraries, that offer multi-articulations, but need a helping hand with their legato ?

Would it be easy to blend Vista into other strings libraries ?

This is something that I would be a bit concerned about.


----------



## Raphioli

muziksculp said:


> Given PS Vista is only a Legato Library, I wonder, will it be easy to integrate it into other Strings sample libraries, that offer multi-articulations, but need a helping hand with their legato ?
> 
> Would it be easy to blend Vista into other strings libraries ?
> 
> This is something that I would be a bit concerned about.


One great thing these comparison demos have gave me is the impression that you'll *probably* be able to use the various articulations in CSS with Vista. @Sovereign's mockup came close, although its missing that liveliness Vista has, but also means the shorts will probably blend with Vista well.
(but of course, you'll need to know how to process and match them like what Sovereigns did.)


----------



## muziksculp

Raphioli said:


> One great thing these comparison demos have gave me is the impression that you'll *probably* be able to use the various articulations in CSS with Vista. @Sovereign's mockup came close, although its missing that liveliness Vista has, but also means the shorts will probably blend with Vista well.
> (but of course, you'll need to know how to process and match them like what Sovereigns did.)



But, CSS has wonderful legatos, I'm more concerned about this detail when using it with other strings libraries that do not have a good legato, or don't have legato all together.


----------



## Raphioli

muziksculp said:


> But, CSS has wonderful legatos, I'm more concerned about this detail when using it with other strings libraries that do not have a good legato, or don't have legato all together.


ah ok, thought you were worried if there are libraries which can supplement the other articulations which Vista doesn't have. (meaning various shorts, trems etc)


----------



## muziksculp

Raphioli said:


> ah ok, thought you were worried if there are libraries which can supplement the other articulations which Vista doesn't have. (meaning various shorts, trems etc)



Since Vista's main focus is to offer great sounding, expressive legatos, I view this library as a fixer for libraries that lack legato, or have so/so legatos. So, the blending factor is going to be an important detail.


----------



## Raphioli

muziksculp said:


> Since Vista's main focus is to offer great sounding, expressive legatos, I view this library as a fixer for libraries that lack legato, or have so/so legatos. So, the blending factor is going to be an important detail.


Good news is that they're going to release a demo with limited range.
I think that would be enough to test if it would blend with the libraries you have before purchasing.


----------



## muziksculp

Raphioli said:


> Good news is that they're going to release a demo with limited range.
> I think that would be enough to test if it would blend with the libraries you have before purchasing.



That would be very helpful. Thanks for the feedback. 

So.. What's the main reason to get Vista if it doesn't blend well with other strings libraries ? 

I would rarely use a legato only strings library to write a track. What's the logic behind using Vista ? What am I missing ?


----------



## artinro

I've found it to blend beautifully with both CSS and Spitfire Symphonic Strings with regard to other articulations. Obviously, a bit of work needs to be done to match in either case, but it's quite minimal (matching spaces etc..). The alpha we testers have right now is (with the exception of the main violins patch) decca only. So the close mics in the final product should give you some more sculpting opportunities there.


----------



## MrCambiata

I wonder how it will mix with Synchron Strings pro, as this kind of expressive legato lines is the only thing I'm missing in this library


----------



## Peros

I had a dream last night that i was joyfully playing with Vista!!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT




----------



## Toecutter

Alex Niedt said:


> Some shockingly dodgy-sounding attacks/transitions in this one. Most unconvincing demo I've heard yet. Weird...


Was about to comment that. It's like there's no release (no pun intended)


----------



## lettucehat

Why is that comment totally gone and the link broken, lol..


----------



## Raphioli

lettucehat said:


> Why is that comment totally gone and the link broken, lol..



hmm....


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

My prediction: Vista and CSW are releasing on the same day and we're all gonna be broke.


----------



## muziksculp

NathanTiemeyer said:


> My prediction: Vista and CSW are releasing on the same day and we're all gonna be broke.



Also add MSS to these two releases.


----------



## Peros

IT IS OOOOONNNN!!!!!!






Vista – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## tcb

there is a free demo
well


----------



## Geocranium

Real quick and dirty test comparing the freebie with CSS. First a melodic line played by Vista then CSS, then some moving harmonies with Vista as the top voice and CSS V1 + 2 in the bottom voices. Vista has a very nice clarity to it, where you'll get more exposed vibrato at lower dynamic layers. It seems to blend very nicely with CSS. I'm absolutely loving the dynamic range. Haters of vibrato will not enjoy this library, to say the least.


----------



## Batrawi

Geocranium said:


> Haters of vibrato will not enjoy this library, to say the least.


aargh, when you thought CSS vibrato was too much already... Vista: _"hold my beer barrel...."_


----------



## Rahul Raj

Grabbed mine <3 This is magic !!!!!


----------



## tabulius

After a one-minute demo test.

1) Close mic sounds nice and dry. I was worried about how wet this library is. There is a long hall sound in close mic as well but not too much.

2) There is a huge missed opportunity with this library in my opinion. I tried playing shorts and there is a nice attack there, but I think this library would be so much more usable if some "Caspian brass" or "Angry brass" like scripting were added. I know this is designed for legatos only, but I can hear the potential. You could play legatos and shorts with one patch if just some *round robins* and short samples were there.

FUTURE UPGRADE MAYBE?!?!?! PLEAASE!

But 5 violins sounds great for sure. This sounds much bigger than 5 players.

EDIT: Here is the quick playing sample of what I mean. There is a good attack for shorts, but with a lack of variation, it is not usable.

EDIT2: I noticed that you can almost play half and whole step trills with this. Legato is really agile. Again with more round robins this would sound dope and very usable as trills.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Me any other day:

Me at 3AM EST when I randomly wake up and Vista is released:


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Batrawi said:


> aargh, when you thought CSS vibrato was too much already... Vista: _"hold my beer barrel...."_


I find CSS doesn't have enough vibrato.. although maybe rather not the right one.
It sounds a bit "whiny" sometimes, especially in the lower register while Vista's just sounds expressive.
Exactly the right amount for me. Although I'd like even more in the highest dynamic but less in lowest.


----------



## Batrawi

tabulius said:


> EDIT: Here is the quick playing sample of what I mean. There is a good attack for shorts, but with a lack of variation, it is not usable.


Thanks for posting. You could also play such attacks as same note rebow instead - correct? I assume the result would me more convincing


----------



## tabulius

Batrawi said:


> Thanks for posting. You could also play such attacks as same note rebow instead - correct? I assume the result would me more convincing



The engine/scripting is in charge of that. I don't know how could I activate the rebow myself when playing shorts. In the demo patch it seems there are no rebow samples at all.


----------



## CT

I haven't been following this very closely and probably won't be getting it, but I was curious how well the demo patch would sit with SCS so here's a dumb test I deferred bedtime by a few minutes to do, if anyone else is interested in that pairing. Now I'm in trouble. Goodnight.


----------



## lettucehat

What! This is how I find out, no email or anything? Lol.

I still wonder what that debacle was two days ago with the Soundcloud thing. Damn I thought they weren't gonna release this until next year with the lack of news lately, and all the competitors making announcements!


----------



## Batrawi

tabulius said:


> The engine/scripting is in charge of that. I don't know how could I activate the rebow myself when playing shorts. In the demo patch it seems there are no rebow samples at all.


_
"Same-note bow-change repetition samples (triggered by repeating a note with the sustain pedal down)*"_


----------



## tabulius

Batrawi said:


> _"Same-note bow-change repetition samples (triggered by repeating a note with the sustain pedal down)*"_



Good luck playing shorts with sustain pedal


----------



## Dmitry

Thanks for demo, but where are RR? How activate? CC64 not help.


----------



## Batrawi

tabulius said:


> Good luck playing shorts with sustain pedal


no no I did not mean this is a solution for short notes but rather pointing that you can take advantage of the rebow feature to partially fill this gap... particularly for a line such as the one you've posted. But I agree, variable note attacks would have made a lot of sense for the purpose of this library. Totally relevant and missed-opportunity


----------



## Eptesicus

Tried the demo. I like it. Still on the fence as to whether to buy it. I would have preferred some variation in the legato transitions - ie a normal slur and a portamento/more prounounced slur.

Playing the vista demo and CSS back to back has made me think i dont really need this...as lovely sounding as it is.

intro price is nice and long though so plenty of time to think about it!


----------



## ricoderks

Dmitry said:


> Thanks for demo, but where are RR? How activate? CC64 not help.


Hold sustain pedal and trigger the same note twice. not a different one


----------



## Sovereign

Just bought it anyway. Will test later. I noticed a change in the loyalty discount, you don't need all of Con Moto.


----------



## AudioLoco

What are the demo limitations? Anyone knows?


----------



## pawelmorytko

Been testing the freebie demo this morning.

Initial thoughts are:

- Beautiful tone
- Great legato on most transitions
- Blends really well with CSS

- A lot of noise in some samples/transitions (go from the lower A to G# or low Bb to the higher A)
- Some legato transitions aren't as great (lower A to F sounds a bit whiny)
- I know the samples are from performances, so the attacks have a weird bump at the start, but this does make it a bit tricky trying to play phrases where say you have 3 notes connected by legato, then a tiny pause, then another few notes in legato, because the first unconnected note will have a noticeable bump at the start, especially at higher CC value.


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

pawelmorytko said:


> Been testing the freebie demo this morning.
> 
> Initial thoughts are:
> 
> - Beautiful tone
> - Great legato on most transitions
> - Blends really well with CSS
> 
> - A lot of noise in some samples/transitions (go from the lower A to G# or low Bb to the higher A)
> - Some legato transitions aren't as great (lower A to F sounds a bit whiny)
> - I know the samples are from performances, so the attacks have a weird bump at the start, but this does make it a bit tricky trying to play phrases where say you have 3 notes connected by legato, then a tiny pause, then another few notes in legato, because the first unconnected note will have a noticeable bump at the start, especially at higher CC value.


Exactly the attacks are a bit strange. They sound somehow disconnected from the sustain if the midi events are not overlapping. It is strange that they are linked to the modwheel. Should be controlled via velocity I find like most of the others do. You can set the value of CC1 from which the attack is turned on. Setting the value to 127 eliminates the attacks. But this cannot be automated via midi cc as far as I can tell. So throwing in some short notes in a line becomes difficult next to impossible. At least judging from the first tries.


----------



## Toecutter

ricoderks said:


> Hold sustain pedal and trigger the same note twice. not a different one


That's the point, RRs only work for note repetitions, everything else sounds like a machine gun. Demo limitation?

@pawelmorytko thoughts are dead on. Vista sounds great but having tested it I'm not convinced. Noisy, transitions are inconsistent and lack any sort of variation. Not impressed after all this wait. Big points to Performance Samples for letting us try before buying. Should be the norm!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Dmitry said:


> Thanks for demo, but where are RR? How activate? CC64 not help.


Why are you expecting round robin legato? 

It doesn't have it, like 95% of all other libraries. Only the same note rebow via CC64 has RR.


----------



## Toecutter

DarkestShadow said:


> Why are you expecting round robin legato?


Maybe just maybe because its sole purpose is doing legato? So it's reasonable to expect some level of variation. And it costs a lot! Yeah you got the library for free but you are doing a disservice to Performance Samples by always giving these feisty responses every time someone has critics to Vist! Stop shilling and let people have their opinions. It's released, there's a demo available and we can judge by ourselves thank you very much.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Toecutter said:


> Maybe just maybe because its sole purpose is doing legato? So it's reasonable to expect some level of variation. And it costs a lot! Yeah you got the library for free but you are doing a disservice to Performance Samples by always giving these feisty responses every time someone has critics to Vist! Stop shilling and let people have their opinions. It's released, there's a demo available and we can judge by ourselves thank you very much.


I have only occasionally made normal responses to criticism I disagreed with, like you sometimes do it on a forum. Also, it's not about me or other comments I made, don't turn this into drama zone. 

The purpose of legato is to transition from one note to another, not arpeggios or measured trills.
As I said, barely any library has RR legato, so if it's not specifically advertised it's not a reasonable expectation.
Would be news to me that round robin intervals is the sole purpose of doing legato. Then barely any developer knows what they are doing!


----------



## Toecutter

DarkestShadow said:


> It's not about me or other comments I made, don't turn this into drama zone.


Then please stop the passive aggressive attitude. It's distracting and not helpful at all.



DarkestShadow said:


> The purpose of legato is to transition from one note to another, not arpeggios or measured trills.



This is very wrong, you can't be serious.



DarkestShadow said:


> The purpose of legato is to transition from one note to another, not arpeggios or measured trills.
> As I said, barely any library has RR legato, so if it's not specifically advertised it's not a reasonable expectation.
> Would be news to me that round robin intervals is the sole purpose of doing legato. Then barely any developer knows what they are doing!



I don't get the point of constantly bringing other developers to the discussion. Or throwing arbitrary numbers like 95%. This is about Vista, a legato only library and it's not unreasonable to expect more. And the bigger issue is the lack of variation in any sampled notes at all. Didn't you hear the machine gun effect here


Dmitry said:


> Thanks for demo, but where are RR? How activate? CC64 not help.



Ok I'll make it easier for you. Open the group editor, put CC1 all the way up and play C and D at ANY tempo. It loops between perf051_vln_cleqdyn4_dn2_2_2_74 and perf051_vln_cleqdyn4_up2_18_18_74. Do that with ANY two notes, at any tempo, at any dynamic. There's only dyn4 and the same notes being triggered over and over again. It could be that the demo freebie doesn't have the other 3 dynamics or any variation at all? I can't find any information on the site.

By the way, 8Dio has an entire library dedicated to arpeggio legato, called Agitato Legato Arpeggio. You should know since you work for them too.


----------



## Sovereign

Just played with the full product for an hour or so. I think the legato and espressivo vibrato is very pleasing and it mixes excellently with CSS, much better than I expected. So I consider it a great add-on (not a replacement). As expected though, you can't actually control the portamento. No regrets yet.


----------



## Dmitry

1.I just asked maybe it's possible.
2. They recorded RR for each note. Why not do this RR like in "short paths" in most library?
3. 2,3 melodic lines often contain repeating notes
4. In my attach mp3 I play fast only for accent on an issue.(no measured trill , in 1/4 this same hurts the ear)
5. 2020 year =)


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

WOW, congrats on another brilliant release Jasper, this library is so fun to play with!


----------



## pawelmorytko

One thing i kinda wish is that this library would play a bit more like Caspian/Adventure strings, or something along the lines of Spitfire’s Performance Legato, with shorts layered at the start so you could play faster disconnected melodies, short notes, and pure legato. Maybe the short note could have helped with the bumpy attack on the starting notes?


----------



## Benjamin Duk

For what I need it for I'm glad it doesn't have layered shorts at the start, but if you could control the volume of the shorts or turn them off then I'm not against it.

Also congrats on the release Jasper. Loving the sound, legatos and play-ability of this library so far.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Toecutter said:


> Then please stop the passive aggressive attitude. It's distracting and not helpful at all.
> 
> 
> 
> This is very wrong, you can't be serious.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get the point of constantly bringing other developers to the discussion. Or throwing arbitrary numbers like 95%. This is about Vista, a legato only library and it's not unreasonable to expect more. And the bigger issue is the lack of variation in any sampled notes at all. Didn't you hear the machine gun effect here
> 
> 
> Ok I'll make it easier for you. Open the group editor, put CC1 all the way up and play C and D at ANY tempo. It loops between perf051_vln_cleqdyn4_dn2_2_2_74 and perf051_vln_cleqdyn4_up2_18_18_74. Do that with ANY two notes, at any tempo, at any dynamic. There's only dyn4 and the same notes being triggered over and over again. It could be that the demo freebie doesn't have the other 3 dynamics or any variation at all? I can't find any information on the site.
> 
> By the way, 8Dio has an entire library dedicated to arpeggio legato, called Agitato Legato Arpeggio. You should know since you work for them too.


You have to decide between passive aggressive and your earlier "feisty" accusation, they are in opposition. 

I'm serious about sampled legato not being intended for trills and arps generally. There is nothing odd about this view, and the point of bringing up other developers is to establish what is the norm for sampling and what can be expected from a legato library.
Soaring Strings is another legato only library and it also has no RR - again like the vast majority of legatos. Just as a reminder, the point of bringing that up is to establish what is to be expected from sampled legato. And it's NOT round robins, whether it's a legato only library or not.
So there is no point in giving any library minus points for not having capabilities that are very unusual and were never advertised.

And yea, I'm aware that there is this 8dio library - now I ask you, what's the point of bringing that up? It's one of the very few legato RR libraries. The Instinct patches from Adagio also have RR. I never said there are no such libraries. Unlike Vista the 8dio Arp Leg library is obviously very specifically created and advertised for being suitable for arpeggios so they are not related. It's not a typical legato library, that's why they specifically called it "Arpeggio Legato".

I have no idea about the freebie patch, the full version I'm playing definitely has a (very) good and unusual dynamic range.


----------



## Jk86

Been playing with this for most of the day and gotta say, it's one of the best sounding string libraries I've ever owned! The sound is HUGE!

This is exactly what I've been after for a while, and blends so well with Con Moto and CSS. 

Very happy customer!


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Jk86 said:


> Been playing with this for most of the day and gotta say, it's one of the best sounding string libraries I've ever owned! The sound is HUGE!



I couldn't agree more! It's almost unfair how easy to play and good-sounding this library is!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I'm not really blown away by the demo patch. Maybe the full thing is better. I like the tone, though.


----------



## John R Wilson

Just had a very brief go with the free 5 violins patch. It does sound wonderful but as I already have the full Con Moto I'm not sure ill get it. It sounds quite similar from my very brief play of it. Anyone own both and can say the similarities or differences between Con Moto and Vista?


----------



## John R Wilson

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I'm not really blown away by the demo patch. Maybe the full thing is better. I like the tone, though.



Yeah I felt the same. It seems quite similar to Con Moto. However, I have only very briefly played it on some not great headphones on my laptop.


----------



## artinro

John R Wilson said:


> Just had a very brief go with the free 5 violins patch. It does sound wonderful but as I already have the full Con Moto I'm not sure ill get it. It sounds quite similar from my very brief play of it. Anyone own both and can say the similarities or differences between Con Moto and Vista?



To me? Very different tone, different players, different number of players, different hall and “slurred” legato, not bow change. They can work well together but they don’t sound at all similar. I have and use both.


----------



## John R Wilson

artinro said:


> To me? Very different tone, different players, different number of players, different hall and “slurred” legato, not bow change. They can work well together but they don’t sound at all similar. I have and use both.



Will definitely need to play again. I was using not the best headphones so I should probably try it out some more on my main speakers and headphones, it could have just been this on my initial play. Similar to Con Moto I do really like it's tone.


----------



## I like music

Looking forward to hearing the fully fleshed out demos!


----------



## Casiquire

I like music said:


> Looking forward to hearing the fully fleshed out demos!


There are a few already!


----------



## I like music

Casiquire said:


> There are a few already!


Oh aye! I agree. What I should have said is that I'm excited to see user demos where they've incorporated these into a full orchestral mix, and to hear what kind of creativity these are sparking.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Remember to put a nice reverb like Seventh heaven on it, if that is your thing


----------



## pawelmorytko

Looking forward to any reviews/walkthrough videos of the library in full detail. Would love to hear all the instruments at different ranges and exposed out of the box. Intro sale seems to be till Jan 30th so there's no rush for me to buy the library just yet.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

This thing is super playable. Gosh, that 3 violins patch is simply stunning as a layering tool. Will do a review in Jan!


----------



## lettucehat

Would be an instabuy, but it behooves me to at least hear what OT, audiobro, and even PS (Voyage) have to say during the generous intro period.


----------



## artinro

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> This thing is super playable. Gosh, that 3 violins patch is simply stunning as a layering tool. Will do a review in Jan!



Indeed. One of the highlights of the library. I like layering the 3 violins overlay with the regular violins patch but I only start slowly bringing its levels up when the regular violins move into the top dynamic. Lovely stuff.


----------



## TomaeusD

Violins always get the spotlight. I wanna hear some lovely violas...


----------



## AEF

From the demo version, I am gonna pass.

A combo of CSS and Con Moto is more my speed. The vibrato is, for my taste....well, Ill leave it to myself.


----------



## lettucehat

I suppose what happened the other day was 1) demos of no-legato, full strings sustains were released after zero mention Vista would include them as a bonus patch 2) immediate negative reaction to lack of legato transitions, despite clearly labeling the demos (as with all other demos) 3) they pull the demos down, deciding the negative impression it might create of the legato is not worth it, even if they can explain it until they're blue in the face. They knew release was two days away regardless.


----------



## Bman70

How does this compare to United Strings of Europe? The last day of sale at $105 has me tempted, Vista would have to be quite a bit better to justify the extra $144.


----------



## sostenuto

Demo ...... _after checking endless boxes_ !


----------



## Eptesicus

sostenuto said:


> Demo ...... _after checking endless boxes_ !



The endless disclaimers you have to tick are the most amusing part of buying something from performance samples


----------



## Scamper

I went along and grabbed the full version as well. Don't have much time for a proper test drive, but from playing around and creating this little snippet, I love it so far.
It sounds great, it's quite playable and the dynamic range is solid from p to f.

Still, I feel like it could be a bit cheaper for the content, but it's still a better deal compared to con moto, I think. Of course, the bleed of the repetition performances into the notes, the lack of further round robins and the legato speed, that it has, doesn't make it useful for every case. I would say the strenghts are medium speed legato passages.
But the weaknesses are clearly laid out and with that, it still has its purposes, at which Vista excels.

It will be a fantastic addition to CSS.


----------



## AudioLoco

I agree to being eaten alive by a giant larva, and that giant larva works only in Kontakt. Tick


----------



## daan1412

I've just checked out the freebie. The playability and sound are great, but I still think it's a bit overpriced for its limits. I get it - this library goes for a specific sound and it does it well, but at this price point we're used to getting more flexibility and control over the instrument, I guess.


----------



## prodigalson

those disclaimers are truly insane and hilarious


----------



## tabulius

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> This thing is super playable. Gosh, that 3 violins patch is simply stunning as a layering tool. Will do a review in Jan!



Agree! The ”bonus” content with 3 violins FFF and harp are really great value. TIP: make duplicate of the 3 violins patch with transpose trick and play with ”6-violins FFF” some Williams tunes - good times 

I’m currently arranging a Finnish Christmas song with Vista, Soaring Strings, Infinite etc. I’ll post the results here when done.


----------



## CT

prodigalson said:


> those disclaimers are truly insane and hilarious



It's great. I'd love to see more developers adopt some of them.


----------



## Batrawi

prodigalson said:


> those disclaimers are truly insane


when the disclaimers have more RRs than the library itself

But honestly though, I thought they are very well thought out.. it's like Jasper was fed up of those who complained later so he went like "I'm gonna teach those bastards how to read each and every rule.."


----------



## CT

Exactly. It's a lot of common sense stuff which is bafflingly necessary, apparently, to shove in some people's faces. I say go for it.


----------



## pawelmorytko

I agree, I imagine Jasper got sick of people not reading the library limitations tab and complaining/asking questions/demanding refunds.

If anything I really appreciate the limitations tab because I know what little imperfections to expect when I first load the library and use it, and not have to find them myself down the road.


----------



## Nicola74

Jk86 said:


> Been playing with this for most of the day and gotta say, it's one of the best sounding string libraries I've ever owned! The sound is HUGE!
> 
> This is exactly what I've been after for a while, and blends so well with Con Moto and CSS.
> 
> Very happy customer!


Hi Jk86,
Could you tell a little bit about the difference between Vista and Con Moto?
I've just bought Vista (very, very happy) and I would like to know if Con Moto could be still useful for me...


----------



## Casiquire

pawelmorytko said:


> I agree, I imagine Jasper got sick of people not reading the library limitations tab and complaining/asking questions/demanding refunds.
> 
> If anything I really appreciate the limitations tab because I know what little imperfections to expect when I first load the library and use it, and not have to find them myself down the road.


Or, we could just pressure developers to offer refunds!


----------



## lettucehat

Agreed, it makes me wonder how much bullshit he has to wade through from annoying people. It's not like he has to give that much warning (potentially losing a few sales), he could be like almost every other developer and just have a "too bad but what are you gonna do about it" policy.



Casiquire said:


> Or, we could just pressure developers to offer refunds!



Obviously a "por que no los dos?" situation. How do we do that though, sample library buyers union?


----------



## prodigalson

It's interesting so many of you interpret all the disclaimers to be borne purely out of exasperation with unreasonable complaints when the first thing I thought of is, "well, if he has gone out of his way to put a disclaimer acknowledging tuning issues and noise complaints, maybe there is something to be concerned about in this product". 

I personally, generally don't mind those quirks in most libraries with the exception of bad tuning issues but If he actually needs to make you check a box acknowleding the product has those problems then its a red flag to me that his product suffers from a much higher amount of "quirks" than what one would otherwise expect...


----------



## lettucehat

prodigalson said:


> It's interesting so many of you interpret all the disclaimers to be borne purely out of exasperation with unreasonable complaints when the first thing I thought of is, "well, if he has gone out of his way to put a disclaimer acknowledging tuning issues and noise complaints, maybe there is something to be concerned about in this product".
> 
> I personally, generally don't mind those quirks in most libraries with the exception of bad tuning issues but If he actually needs to make you check a box acknowleding the product has those problems then its a red flag to me that his product suffers from a much higher amount of "quirks" than what one would otherwise expect...









Good thinking, surely no merchants will exaggerate the quality of their products or hide flaws to take advantage of this mindset. Punish honesty.


----------



## pawelmorytko

prodigalson said:


> It's interesting so many of you interpret all the disclaimers to be borne purely out of exasperation with unreasonable complaints when the first thing I thought of is, "well, if he has gone out of his way to put a disclaimer acknowledging tuning issues and noise complaints, maybe there is something to be concerned about in this product".
> 
> I personally, generally don't mind those quirks in most libraries with the exception of bad tuning issues but If he actually needs to make you check a box acknowleding the product has those problems then its a red flag to me that his product suffers from a much higher amount of "quirks" than what one would otherwise expect...


Fair point, except most if not all of Jasper's products are excellent quality, admired by many, despite all of the flaws that are explained in the limitations section. I think every library comes with its own flaws and limitations, so yeah I think it's nice to say what the dev thinks the library can and can't do.


----------



## Geocranium

prodigalson said:


> It's interesting so many of you interpret all the disclaimers to be borne purely out of exasperation with unreasonable complaints when the first thing I thought of is, "well, if he has gone out of his way to put a disclaimer acknowledging tuning issues and noise complaints, maybe there is something to be concerned about in this product".
> 
> I personally, generally don't mind those quirks in most libraries with the exception of bad tuning issues but If he actually needs to make you check a box acknowleding the product has those problems then its a red flag to me that his product suffers from a much higher amount of "quirks" than what one would otherwise expect...



The thing about Jasper is that he's basically built his whole brand off of this idea though. The whole original tag was "not for purists." He's extremely transparent about the limitations and quirks of his products. The 600 checkboxes are to just further nail down the point that you're _not_ buying something marketed as pristine and flawless like other companies will say about their products, so if you don't like it, well he told you what to expect.


----------



## prodigalson

lettucehat said:


> Good thinking, surely no merchants will exaggerate the quality of their products or hide flaws to take advantage of this mindset. Punish honesty.



lol. no need to be patronizing or combative. I'm not attacking Jasper or suggesting he do anything differently. I'm just saying it's exactly BECAUSE most developer's don't highlight potential issues, like it or not, making someone acknowledge issues suggests that there may be more than usual.

I've purchased a few products from him and generally I like them a lot, warts and all, but this is the first time I've had to check all those boxes which is a red flag to me for this product specifically.


----------



## pawelmorytko

prodigalson said:


> lol. no need to be patronizing or combative. I'm not attacking Jasper or suggesting he do anything differently. I'm just saying it's exactly BECAUSE most developer's don't highlight potential issues, like it or not, making someone acknowledge issues suggests that there may be more than usual.
> 
> I've purchased a few products from him and generally I like them a lot, warts and all, but this is the first time I've had to check all those boxes which is a red flag to me for this product specifically.


I think it's a recent thing, because I bought FS1 and Caspian recently and had the same thing with all the boxes, so it's not just a Vista thing


----------



## Eptesicus

Geocranium said:


> The thing about Jasper is that he's basically built his whole brand off of this idea though. The whole original tag was "not for purists." He's extremely transparent about the limitations and quirks of his products. The 600 checkboxes are to just further nail down the point that you're _not_ buying something marketed as pristine and flawless like other companies will say about their products, so if you don't like it, well he told you what to expect.



This is sort of refreshing to be honest. At least he is honest about it.


----------



## prodigalson

Also, its not about punishing honesty, because complete honesty isn't actually there. "tuning issues" can mean anything from a nice amount of variance that enhances realism and warmth to some notes or sections being completely unusable. the disclaimer isn't benefitting the consumer, it's benefitting Jasper. Which is fine, before anyone jumps down my throat. lol.


----------



## CT

Geocranium said:


> something marketed as pristine and flawless like other companies will say about their products



Oh, this was my point though: I've never really seen developers claim anything like this, yet people expect it. Jasper wanting to make all these disclaimers upfront about his quirky releases is completely understandable. But it seems that even what I'd consider a reasonably expected degree of imperfection from anything wrought by human hands needs a warning label too, for some people.


----------



## Wolf68

"available now". damn. I knew this day would come. and the loyality conditions are an additional sweetener...


----------



## Go To 11

Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.


----------



## I like music

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.



Interesting. I didn't actually have a preference for one. All I could think was that depending on the situation, any one of them might do nicely.

Personally, I've found that single line comparisons are harder for me to parse. Somehow, when you have the whole section playing something that's a bit busier, then the differences (and character) become more apparent.

All in all, my preference is that I can't tell which I prefer!


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.



I like A the most. 

B got too much hiss and hurts in my ears. And C sounds to mechanic between the notes.


----------



## artinro

My preference is B in both cases.


----------



## Christianus

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.



I prefer A. B has a strange noise in both phrases reminiscent of a telephone beep. I don't like the spaces in the second phrase for C.


----------



## AEF

A sounds like vista, B sounds like Berlin Strings Espressivo patch or Sus Acc, C maybe SCS Or Afflatus?

Vista sounds best here. Which did you use to play it in?


----------



## filipjonathan

Just found this.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

prodigalson said:


> Also, its not about punishing honesty, because complete honesty isn't actually there. "tuning issues" can mean anything from a nice amount of variance that enhances realism and warmth to some notes or sections being completely unusable. the disclaimer isn't benefitting the consumer, it's benefitting Jasper. Which is fine, before anyone jumps down my throat. lol.


Tuning issues? Shiet you'd think they tuned their instrument before recording.


----------



## John R Wilson

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.



A was my favourite.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.


Clearly B is Vista. Not sure why people think it's A. Well, I prefer B, but in the first example it has a lot of close mic it seems, and it doesn't sound as good legato wise as the decca especially in the high dynamics you're playing.
A is very shrill and liveless (in example one) and C... well yea, sounds good but not quite as expressive as B.


----------



## Pedro Camacho

I have been blessed for many years with a wonderful private library developed by Jasper Blunk.
Vista is the first library I used a couple times to REPLACE the legato in my private library.
It is -THAT- good.


----------



## pawelmorytko

I also think its B, simply because I can already hear the same artefacts I heard when testing the demo patch this morning haha


----------



## Go To 11

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.



Click to Reveal a), b) and c)


Spoiler



A is 8dio Century 2.0
B is the Vista Freebie patch
C is Nashville Scoring Strings



I added a bit of reverb to all of them to put them in the same space, and I used close and tree mics on all three. I played each in separately to the feel of each library's legato patch. The second part of the audio fades from 0 to 127 on the modwheel for full dynamics for each library. Thanks for listening!


----------



## artinro

DarkestShadow said:


> Clearly B is Vista. Not sure why people think it's A. Well, I prefer B, but in the first example it has a lot of close mic it seems, and it doesn't sound as good legato wise as the decca especially in the high dynamics you're playing.
> A is very shrill and liveless (in example one) and C... well yea, sounds good but not quite as expressive as B.



Agree with this take completely, and I think it really proves how everyone gravitates to his/her own preferred aesthetic. To me, Jasper just “gets” the string sound I’m after. It’s quite interesting how divergent tastes can be be. I disliked A....very shrill and fake. And I own Century 2....so go figure!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

artinro said:


> Agree with this take completely, and I think it really proves how everyone gravitates to his/her own preferred aesthetic. To me, Jasper just “gets” the string sound I’m after. It’s quite interesting how divergent tastes can be be. I disliked A....very shrill and fake. And I own Century 2....so go figure!


Yea, never fails to irritate and fascinate. :D
Century sounds much better to me with more far, wide mics - I like it a lot with the new B mix, only have the Sordinos but I guess normal version will be similar in that regard.
But aside from taste... A just sounds pretty darn different from Vista. so I'm still not sure why people though it was Vista.


----------



## filipjonathan

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.


I like A the best. B sounds really weird and has a lot of noise. C is ok.


----------



## Christianus

Personally, I'm not sure if I could ignore these artifacts. After hearing them once, they would probably irritate me every time I play. Especially when it comes to a library focused on melodies, where it will be in sight.

I don't know if Jasper ever goes back to published libraries and releases patches, like other developers, or after all those disclaimers, it's a "take what it is or let it be" business.
But in this price relation for a library doing one thing, I would at least expect some form of support.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Christianus said:


> Personally, I'm not sure if I could ignore these artifacts. After hearing them once, they would probably irritate me every time I play. Especially when it comes to a library focused on melodies, where it will be in sight.
> 
> I don't know if Jasper ever goes back to published libraries and releases patches, like other developers, or after all those disclaimers, it's a "take what it is or let it be" business.
> But in this price relation for a library doing one thing, I would at least expect some form of support.


I could hear plenty of artefacts too, but I think they are less prominent in actual music context, with the rest of the strings, and even more so with the other orchestral sections. Plus I think once layered with something like CSS, it helps hide those artefacts a bit more too.

But yeah, I'm still holding off mainly because of those artefacts, and some transitions not really wowing me. I was hoping for a bit more polished product with less imperfections, as I hate having to change notes or keys of my tracks to make them fit the library I'm working with so I don't get samples or transitions that are not as good as others. $249 is certainly not bad for a legato only string library with a harp, but it certainly is still a lot of money so will need to go through much more third party content like demos and reviews before I pull the trigger.


----------



## Akarin

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.



A sounds like it was recorded by a violin player, B is full of noise and artifacts and C is played by The Bored Orchestra of the Dead just before their lunch break.


----------



## filipjonathan

$340 for a library full of noise and artifacts?! Oh and it does only one thing. Ummmmm, no, thanks.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Here is the $1,000 question:

How is the harp?


----------



## Bman70

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.



#2 has a strange artifact in it, so that's Vista? haha joking but not sure if that was in the sample or not. I think #3 sounds the best, smooth and not quavery like the other two.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

B is Vista and to me easily the most expressive.


----------



## muziksculp

@artinro mentions that B is the Vista Freebie patch. So that's not what the real deal sounds like, I'm guessing it doesn't have the weird sound artifacts.

Anyways.. I'm not a big fan of this type of one-trick pony library. But I will watch some of the reviews, and future demos to better evaluate it.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

muziksculp said:


> @artinro mentions that B is the Vista Freebie patch. So that's not what the real deal sounds like, I'm guessing it doesn't have the weird sound artifacts.
> 
> Anyways.. I'm not a big fan of this type of one-trick pony library. But I will watch some of the reviews, and future demos to better evaluate it.


I think many hear artifacts in that patch and others hear past that and hear an expressive recording. It really is ones perspective. I hear both but my general feeling is the library has unique expressiveness.


----------



## artinro

Craig Sharmat said:


> I think many hear artifacts in that patch and others hear past that and hear an expressive recording. It really is ones perspective. I hear both but my general feeling is the library has unique expressiveness.



If the ”artifacts“ are the sounds human beings make while interacting with their instruments, then to me it’s a positive. I don’t consider them artifacts. Personal taste, I suppose.


----------



## pawelmorytko

It certainly is an expressive recording! And such a beautiful tone. But it also is possible to hear the beautiful expressive recording and the artefacts at the same time.

The way I kinda feel about artefacts and human imperfections is that while it's great in real recordings, an artefact like that will only ever happen once, and never the same way again, making it such a beautiful human imperfection. But when it comes to sampling, and it is captured in a sample recording, that artefact will be there every time, forever. It will happen every time you use that sample, and it will be in every track that you write using that sample, and multiple times across one track if you use it more than once. Then it is no longer that beautiful and unique human imperfection.


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> If the ”artifacts“ are the sounds human beings make while interacting with their instruments, then to me it’s a positive. I don’t consider them artifacts. Personal taste, I suppose.



Hehe.. but that would mean they will be playing the same artifacts over, and over, and over again when they play it. Not a good thing.


----------



## artinro

pawelmorytko said:


> It certainly is an expressive recording! And such a beautiful tone. But it also is possible to hear the beautiful expressive recording and the artefacts at the same time.
> 
> The way I kinda feel about artefacts and human imperfections is that while it's great in real recordings, an artefact like that will only ever happen once, and never the same way again, making it such a beautiful human imperfection. But when it comes to sampling, and it is captured in a sample recording, that artefact will be there every time, forever. It will happen every time you use that sample, and it will be in every track that you write using that sample, and multiple times across one track if you use it more than once. Then it is no longer that beautiful and unique human imperfection.



That's a fair point, but I suppose one has to just consider that sampling will always be a snapshot. It's why we all still love the "real thing," right? 

In use, I find I rarely, if ever, get frustrated by a player noise happening multiple times mostly because other things happening around that line are likely different each time and, within a mix, will be masked.


----------



## Gerbil

I'm thrilled. It's fantastic. I love playing it, the dynamic range, the cohesiveness of the ensemble and, as always, the simplicity of it all. It's different to the Con Moto selection and by no means renders them redundant. The Sounds of the Sea solo violins work well with them as well. If you're a fan of his work then I'm pretty sure you'll love Vista.


----------



## muziksculp

Let's hear some user demos.


----------



## Guffy

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.


Vista is in there? I don't really like any of those


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

I played with it very extensively while testing and also worked it into about 10 pieces (while boosting loads of high end, thus amplifying higher noises by 3-6 dB) and I have only come across about 2 or so that I think I might pick up on several times. But I'm certainly a noise addict.

Of course there is a problem with reptition of imperfections, but there is only the choice between a polished library with barely any human mess and liveliness in it or one with imperfections that sometimes repeat. This library has 4 dyn layers for the main patches (thus with different imperfections of course), so if you craft an expressive performance and don't do extensive repeated note phrases the chances of artifacts noticeably repeating in a musical context is pretty small I'd say. 
And even if so... I personally will choose that over a sleak polished library


----------



## pawelmorytko

artinro said:


> That's a fair point, but I suppose one has to just consider that sampling will always be a snapshot. It's why we all still love the "real thing," right?
> 
> In use, I find I rarely, if ever, get frustrated by a player noise happening multiple times mostly because other things happening around that line are likely different each time and, within a mix, will be masked.


Also a fair point! I think that's why a lot of us here are debating and waiting to see if this library is worth it. Depending on how well those artefacts, and other imperfections about the library can be masked in realistic musical context. Looking forward to hearing more demos and reviews!


----------



## artinro

DarkestShadow said:


> I played with it very extensively while testing and also worked it into about 10 pieces (while boosting loads of high end, thus amplifying higher noises by 3-6 dB) and I have only come across about 2 or so that I think I might pick up on several times. But I'm certainly a noise addict.
> 
> Of course there is a problem with reptition of imperfections, but there is only the choice between a polished library with barely any human mess and liveliness in it or one with imperfections that sometimes repeat. This library has 4 dyn layers for the main patches (thus with different imperfections of course), so if you craft an expressive performance and don't do extensive repeated note phrases the chances of artifacts noticeably repeating in a musical context is pretty small I'd say.
> And even if so... I personally will choose that over a sleak polished library



Perfectly articulated. I count myself in the same boat.


----------



## Zero&One

I couldn’t be on with that squeaky wheel sound for an afternoon.


----------



## Saxer

Either you look for faults or for possibilities...


----------



## pawelmorytko

Okay guys... come on. Surely we can appreciate the great things about the library and discuss the potential cons that come with it, without being generalised into a black and white "you either hate it or you love it". We should all know by now that discussing sample libraries is never that simple haha!


----------



## bvaughn0402

That is true. One of my favorite sounds is a Mellotron. That is all about imperfections.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I don't hate or love it. I just think it sounds ok. From what I hear, obviously. Lol. The legato in the demo patch ain't as smooth at CSS. A bit bumpy. You must be more careful when interacting with the mod wheel unlike CSS. This is a library I would rather wait for a sale for, I think. Sounds great in some of the demos, though.


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Christianus said:


> Personally, I'm not sure if I could ignore these artifacts. After hearing them once, they would probably irritate me every time I play. Especially when it comes to a library focused on melodies, where it will be in sight.
> 
> I don't know if Jasper ever goes back to published libraries and releases patches, like other developers, or after all those disclaimers, it's a "take what it is or let it be" business.
> But in this price relation for a library doing one thing, I would at least expect some form of support.



Just bought Vista and I can not hear the hiss/noise as extreme as in the demo above. Basses, Cello, Violas and Violins sound really beautiful and seem to fit good to CSS. Just the last octave of the violins are very hard/harsh. If you load all four sections in kontakt, its wonderful and easy to play with all on the same midi-channel and legato "on".


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Over 20 minutes of me hammering on my keyboard with Vista.


----------



## Johnny

Go To 11 said:


> Very quick comparison between Vista Violins and two of my other Violin libes. It's a blind shootout so I haven't labelled them. I'm curious for everyone's preference between a), b) and c) ? I play two phrases through on all three libes.


Vista is... B?


----------



## Johnny

muziksculp said:


> Hehe.. but that would mean they will be playing the same artifacts over, and over, and over again when they play it. Not a good thing.


If you hold down the "B natural and Bbflat" key, sustaining, you do here the squeak in the 5 Violins patch loop... You can for sure RX it out, but I think it the context of actual music, it will hopefully go un-noticed? Unless your... Melody, is of course hovering on B and B flat exclusively... And in that case... Hmmm...


----------



## Bman70

We have to be careful about attributing imperfections to some romanticized but unrealistic "human touch." String players are professionals, believe me we practice for grace and smoothness without strange twangs or scrapes.. unless it's some kind of violent rock opera. I can play a line expressively on violin without hitting the bow on the bridge, or bumping into my music stand. Some of the artifacts heard above are like little frogs or chirps joining in, which certainly aren't to be expected in a professional orchestral setting. Still, it has a beautiful tone and most of those things would disappear in the layers.


----------



## Casiquire

prodigalson said:


> It's interesting so many of you interpret all the disclaimers to be borne purely out of exasperation with unreasonable complaints when the first thing I thought of is, "well, if he has gone out of his way to put a disclaimer acknowledging tuning issues and noise complaints, maybe there is something to be concerned about in this product".
> 
> I personally, generally don't mind those quirks in most libraries with the exception of bad tuning issues but If he actually needs to make you check a box acknowleding the product has those problems then its a red flag to me that his product suffers from a much higher amount of "quirks" than what one would otherwise expect...


His product does have more quirks. That's... That's why he's telling you. That's the whole thing lol


----------



## muziksculp

I'm also curious why do posters here keep mentioning CSS being used along Vista ? Why would I need to do that given CSS has wonderful legatos, and timbre ?

I would think Vista would be more suitable for String libraries that have weak legatos, or need to be layered to get a nicer timbre/sound, or to be used as is, without any layering.

By the way, I don't have Vista, and I'm not sure I need it.


----------



## batboysings

Just bought it. Have to wait till tomorrow to try it. V excited. Anybody how much latency/delay it has?


----------



## chapbot

batboysings said:


> Just bought it. Have to wait till tomorrow to try it. V excited. Anybody how much latency/delay it has?


-140

*NOTE ON DELAY: this library has a moderately delayed response when playing (140 ms based on the close mics) to further the musicality of the legatos and releases*. The library is heavily optimized for this delay amount. All the elements of the library (legatos, sustains, attacks, same-note bow-change repetitions, etc) are on the same delay.


----------



## JGRaynaud

Te me artefacts are normal. That's what I have every time I'm recording a real ensemble. 

If I'm being honest when it comes to sample libraries I mainly interested in libraries with these little artefacts and especially libraries without noise reduction (it kills the sound of the room and even if it can sound good on a single line, in a full mix the lack of room tone will make everything sound way more synthetic)

If you take the recordings from many soundtracks you'll have artefacts everywhere, way more than in Vista. If you can't hear artfacts or just some it means a sound engineer or the composer spent hours denoising the final tracks (I personally do that for hours on every soundtrack I record) 

However if you listen to recordings where this kind of processing wasn't made you can clearly hear a lot of artefacts. Here is an example of track without any denoising like that (better listen to a good part of the track) :

 


I think you'll agree that you can hear artefacts everywhere.

When it comes to sample libraries then like for a final soundtrack recorded, you can still denoise a bit the final files if you believe it's too much (fortunately you don't need to spend hours at all like for a real recording)


----------



## Marco_D

muziksculp said:


> By the way, I don't have Vista, and I'm not sure I need it.



If one already owns CSS, it's hard to justify this purchase for most people. And if you don't own it, looking at Vista's full price ($339) and CSS ($399) and considering that CSS is a lot more than just legato, I don't know why someone would go with Vista if they could only afford one of the two. The legatos of the two are very similar. There are demos in this discussion that compare them and it's shocking how similar they sound. I guess you could prefer Vista's different nuances compared to CSS, that's subjective. What's not subjective is that CSS definitely offers more control (over attack, vibrato and transitions). But to be fair, I guess Vista is more playable, thanks to the consistent delay.


----------



## filipjonathan

Marco_D said:


> If one already owns CSS, it's hard to justify this purchase for most people. And if you don't own it, looking at Vista's full price ($339) and CSS ($399) and considering that CSS is a lot more than just legato, I don't know why someone would go with Vista if they could only afford one of the two. The legatos of the two are very similar. There are demos in this discussion that compare them and it's shocking how similar they sound. I guess you could prefer Vista's different nuances compared to CSS, that's subjective. What's not subjective is that CSS definitely offers more control (over attack, vibrato and transitions). But to be fair, I guess Vista is more playable, thanks to the consistent delay.


This.


----------



## JGRaynaud

Marco_D said:


> If one already owns CSS, it's hard to justify this purchase for most people. And if you don't own it, looking at Vista's full price ($339) and CSS ($399) and considering that CSS is a lot more than just legato, I don't know why someone would go with Vista if they could only afford one of the two. The legatos of the two are very similar. There are demos in this discussion that compare them and it's shocking how similar they sound. I guess you could prefer Vista's different nuances compared to CSS, that's subjective. What's not subjective is that CSS definitely offers more control (over attack, vibrato and transitions). But to be fair, I guess Vista is more playable, thanks to the consistent delay.



Isn't it like saying "I don't see why people would buy CSS at 399 dollars while you can have Hollywood Strings Diamond for 160 dollars ?".. Since HS has way more articulations, and actually has very good legatos too ? 

The reason people bought CSS even if most of them had HS ? Because they think it sounds better.

Why people could buy Vista even if they have CSS ? Because they might think it sound better.


I don't think people would buy Vista anyway if they don't already have a library that covers most of their articulations needs. It would be a wierd choice to buy a first big library to have just legatos. 

If people already have a library covering most of their articulations needs (which is probably the case), it's down to "wich one of these libraries will improve my sound or workflow the most". This is entirely subjective in the end.


----------



## pawelmorytko

muziksculp said:


> I'm also curious why do posters here keep mentioning CSS being used along Vista ? Why would I need to do that given CSS has wonderful legatos, and timbre ?
> 
> I would think Vista would be more suitable for String libraries that have weak legatos, or need to be layered to get a nicer timbre/sound, or to be used as is, without any layering.
> 
> By the way, I don't have Vista, and I'm not sure I need it.


I think that's why Vista compliments CSS so well, because they are quite similar in tone already, and the legato's are also blending well together with similar speeds/delays. I think Vista does really well to make CSS feel like it's in a bigger hall and like there are more players in the ensemble, which is what I find CSS lacks a lot of the time.


----------



## Marco_D

JGRaynaud said:


> Isn't it like saying "I don't see why people would buy CSS at 399 dollars while you can have Hollywood Strings Diamond for 160 dollars ?".. Since HS has way more articulations, and actually has very good legatos too ?
> 
> The reason people bought CSS even if most of them had HS ? Because they think it sounds better.
> 
> Why people could buy Vista even if they have CSS ? Because they might think it sound better.
> 
> 
> I don't think people would buy Vista anyway if they don't already have a library that covers most of their articulations needs. It would be a wierd choice to buy a first big library to have just legatos.
> 
> If people already have a library covering most of their articulations needs (which is probably the case), it's down to "wich one of these libraries will improve my sound or workflow the most". This is entirely subjective in the end.




I think I already addressed all the points you make in my original comment. My whole premise is that Vista sounds a lot like CSS to my ears, whereas in your example, HS has a very different core character, hence why one would want both HS and CSS. Plus, Vista actually offers less in terms of control (but more in terms of immediate playability), and this is not subjective, unless I'm missing something. My guess is that for most people this difference isn't worth the expense and that's what all my comment said.


----------



## Go To 11

Guffy said:


> Vista is in there? I don't really like any of those








Performance Samples Vista | Available now!


I also think its B, simply because I can already hear the same artefacts I heard when testing the demo patch this morning haha




vi-control.net


----------



## Go To 11

Johnny said:


> Vista is... B?








Performance Samples Vista | Available now!


I also think its B, simply because I can already hear the same artefacts I heard when testing the demo patch this morning haha




vi-control.net


----------



## JGRaynaud

Marco_D said:


> My whole premise is that Vista sounds a lot like CSS to my ears, whereas in your example, HS has a very different core character, hence why one would want both HS and CSS.


Well, I guess that's where the subjective part is because to me Vista and CSS don't sound close to each other


----------



## Marco_D

JGRaynaud said:


> Well, I guess that's where the subjective part is because to me Vista and CSS don't sound close to each other



Fair enough, but if you think they don't sound similar you're definitely in the minority, and my argument applies for 'most people', as I said in my original comment.


----------



## gst98

I don't really think Vista and CSS sound that similar at all. They are in a similar style and go for the same kind of thing but CSS is dark overall, and has a low mid build up. Vista does not have that low mid build up, and has this amazing air on the top end that gives it so much life.


----------



## lettucehat

Yeah they are similar in the sense that they seem to play well together and are in the same general ballpark (warm, romantic, natural) but other than that they obviously are pretty different.


----------



## AudioLoco

Marco_D said:


> Fair enough, but if you think they don't sound similar you're definitely in the minority, and my argument applies for 'most people', as I said in my original comment.


They sound totally different to me too.
Vista has more vibrato, sounds more fragile, more "smokey" (whatever that means in my head, kind of nostalgic maybe?)


----------



## JGRaynaud

I just spent 30 minutes programming the beginning of my demo for Vista with CSS.

CSS : "mixed" position (the default position), modulation reworked of course (not just using the midi of the demo), EQ adapted to the library, same amount of reverb and same mastering as the demo except the EQ that needs to be different.

Vista : Decca tree only, same reverb as for CSS, same mastering with another EQ adapted to the library.

I could make something a little better for CSS I guess but I don't have more time to spend on it. However it shows very well the difference of tone. Note that CSS lacks of low end because of the basses (even if I boosted them here compard to Vista) and doesn't have that sparkling high end even if i'm at the maximum of the modulation at moments like at 00:07-00:08.

First example CSS, second example Vista.


----------



## AudioLoco

JGRaynaud said:


> I just spent 30 minutes programming the beginning of my demo for Vista with CSS.
> 
> CSS : "mixed" position (the default position), modulation reworked of course (not just using the midi of the demo), EQ adapted to the library, same amount of reverb and same mastering as the demo except the EQ that needs to be different.
> 
> Vista : Decca tree only, same reverb as for CSS, same mastering with another EQ adapted to the library.
> 
> I could make something a little better for CSS I guess but I don't have more time to spend on it. However it shows very well the difference of tone. Note that CSS lacks of low end because of the basses (even if I boosted them here compard to Vista) and doesn't have that sparkling high end even if i'm at the maximum of the modulation at moments like at 00:07-00:08.
> 
> First example CSS, second example Vista.


Vista just sounds more "romantic"


----------



## lettucehat

The entrance of the violins in the Vista version really says it all. But that incredible demo track has been online for a little while now, and anyone who heard that and didn't immediately get what's special about this library probably isn't going to be convinced verbally.


----------



## I like music

JGRaynaud said:


> Te me artefacts are normal. That's what I have every time I'm recording a real ensemble.
> 
> If I'm being honest when it comes to sample libraries I mainly interested in libraries with these little artefacts and especially libraries without noise reduction (it kills the sound of the room and even if it can sound good on a single line, in a full mix the lack of room tone will make everything sound way more synthetic)
> 
> If you take the recordings from many soundtracks you'll have artefacts everywhere, way more than in Vista. If you can't hear artfacts or just some it means a sound engineer or the composer spent hours denoising the final tracks (I personally do that for hours on every soundtrack I record)
> 
> However if you listen to recordings where this kind of processing wasn't made you can clearly hear a lot of artefacts. Here is an example of track without any denoising like that (better listen to a good part of the track) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you'll agree that you can hear artefacts everywhere.
> 
> When it comes to sample libraries then like for a final soundtrack recorded, you can still denoise a bit the final files if you believe it's too much (fortunately you don't need to spend hours at all like for a real recording)



Please allow me to make a slight digression here, just to say 'John Williams is the man'
Who is playing this trumpet? Wonderful.

Also, if you like the sound of Vista and have the money, buy it. If you don't, don't.


----------



## Marco_D

AudioLoco said:


> Vista just sounds more "romantic"



Yes, I think it's because in the Vista version of the demo you automatically get those romantic portamento transitions, whereas in the CSS version he left the neutral transitions. But of course you can get the portamentos on CSS, too, if you want (and you get to control that, rather than having the library choose for you.) Great demo, by the way!


----------



## JGRaynaud

Marco_D said:


> Yes, I think it's because in the Vista version of the demo you automatically get those romantic portamento transitions, whereas in the CSS version he left the neutral transitions. But of course you can get the portamentos on CSS, too, if you want (and you get to control that, rather than having the library choose for you.) Great demo, by the way!



To be honest I mainly got rid of the portamento on the high notes at 00:08 or 00:13 because I tried to give more attack to CSS since the violins at full power don't play as "fortissimo" as Vista ( and I want the violins to play these lines with strenght). But I tried the portamento too actually.

I think a big difference in the sound (not gonna say that CSS is darker, or not gonna speak about the way it's played with more vibrato, etc, because that's stuff we already know) is actually written in the name of CSS.

"Studio".

With CSS you get a studio sound, while Vista sounds more like a hall. The way the frequencies shines is very different partly because of that. That's in my opinion (among other reasons) why it sounds more romantic and can sound more classical when using the decca tree only. I guess that's also why people felt Vista is closer of the John William sound, since he always records in large halls.


----------



## Toecutter

Bman70 said:


> We have to be careful about attributing imperfections to some romanticized but unrealistic "human touch." String players are professionals, believe me we practice for grace and smoothness without strange twangs or scrapes.. unless it's some kind of violent rock opera. I can play a line expressively on violin without hitting the bow on the bridge, or bumping into my music stand. Some of the artifacts heard above are like little frogs or chirps joining in, which certainly aren't to be expected in a professional orchestral setting. Still, it has a beautiful tone and most of those things would disappear in the layers.


Yes 

Noises were accepted in old recording not because it had "character" or gave a "cool vibe man". Engineers simply couldn't do better, limited by technology and were literally perfecting the techniques we use today as they went along.

Try to sell this idea to Alan Meyerson or Simon Rhodes today XD They work their asses off to get pristine recordings "But Hans Zimmer Strings and Abbey Road One have noises too" we are talking about 5 occurrences max in libraries with 20x the content of Vista, THAT I can understand.

It's ok to like Vista, I think it has qualities too, but in my opinion to try to convince people that sloppy and noisy recordings in Vista are acceptable in 2020, you either are stuck in a time capsule, have low standards or only work with amateurs.

Anne sums it up perfectly, 14:40


One could argue that Vista falls in the MVP category (minimum viable product) but Jasper never denied that he is selling libraries as is, way before we had to tick a dozen of boxes. Don't like the noises? Don't buy it, simple. I decided to wait, if the issues I found in Vista are gone in Voyage, I'm happy to do business again with Performance Samples. Or not. 2021 will be the year of the strings anyway.


----------



## Kent

Marco_D said:


> Fair enough, but if you think they don't sound similar you're definitely in the minority, and my argument applies for 'most people', as I said in my original comment.


As someone who thinks they sound _absolutely_ different (beside the fact they are recordings of string ensembles), and in the interest of keeping an open mind, I’d love to see your supporting data.


----------



## Bluemount Score

JGRaynaud said:


> I just spent 30 minutes programming the beginning of my demo for Vista with CSS.
> 
> CSS : "mixed" position (the default position), modulation reworked of course (not just using the midi of the demo), EQ adapted to the library, same amount of reverb and same mastering as the demo except the EQ that needs to be different.
> 
> Vista : Decca tree only, same reverb as for CSS, same mastering with another EQ adapted to the library.
> 
> I could make something a little better for CSS I guess but I don't have more time to spend on it. However it shows very well the difference of tone. Note that CSS lacks of low end because of the basses (even if I boosted them here compard to Vista) and doesn't have that sparkling high end even if i'm at the maximum of the modulation at moments like at 00:07-00:08.
> 
> First example CSS, second example Vista.


Based on this, I prefer the tone of Vista by quite a bit. The legatos don't fall behind either imo. Still to expensive for me personally right now, already owning CSS. But it sounds beautiful.


----------



## nas

JGRaynaud said:


> To be honest I mainly got rid of the portamento on the high notes at 00:08 or 00:13 because I tried to give more attack to CSS since the violins at full power don't play as "fortissimo" as Vista ( and I want the violins to play these lines with strenght). But I tried the portamento too actually.
> 
> I think a big difference in the sound (not gonna say that CSS is darker, or not gonna speak about the way it's played with more vibrato, etc, because that's stuff we already know) is actually written in the name of CSS.
> 
> "Studio".
> 
> With CSS you get a studio sound, while Vista sounds more like a hall. The way the frequencies shines is very different partly because of that. That's in my opinion (among other reasons) why it sounds more romantic and can sound more classical when using the decca tree only. I guess that's also why people felt Vista is closer of the John William sound, since he always records in large halls.



That was beautiful comparison you posted thanks for sharing. While you do highlight the differences, I actually understand why some would be inclined to blend CSS and Vista. They seem to have more similarities than say Vista and SCS (my goto library). You make an excellent case for both libraries with your example and I could be happy with either. Probably for me it would be a case by case for any given cue and I would probably tend to go with not only the appropriate tone, but also playability and something that will deliver great results quickly - particularly in a deadline situation.

Now I have to go out and buy both !


----------



## pawelmorytko

JGRaynaud said:


> To be honest I mainly got rid of the portamento on the high notes at 00:08 or 00:13 because I tried to give more attack to CSS since the violins at full power don't play as "fortissimo" as Vista ( and I want the violins to play these lines with strenght). But I tried the portamento too actually.
> 
> I think a big difference in the sound (not gonna say that CSS is darker, or not gonna speak about the way it's played with more vibrato, etc, because that's stuff we already know) is actually written in the name of CSS.
> 
> "Studio".
> 
> With CSS you get a studio sound, while Vista sounds more like a hall. The way the frequencies shines is very different partly because of that. That's in my opinion (among other reasons) why it sounds more romantic and can sound more classical when using the decca tree only. I guess that's also why people felt Vista is closer of the John William sound, since he always records in large halls.


I also really like both examples, which makes it even harder to pull the trigger. I'm pretty sure a lot of clients and non-musicians would be extremely happy with the CSS result in the final track. So you gotta ask yourself, are you just getting Vista for yourself, because you think it sounds good? I know we always strive for perfection, the best there is, and the new most innovative tools. So I guess that's where Vista comes in. But a lot of people would still be happy with just having CSS in their arsenal I imagine.


----------



## I like music

pawelmorytko said:


> I also really like both examples, which makes it even harder to pull the trigger. I'm pretty sure a lot of clients and non-musicians would be extremely happy with the CSS result in the final track. So you gotta ask yourself, are you just getting Vista for yourself, because you think it sounds good? I know we always strive for perfection, the best there is, and the new most innovative tools. So I guess that's where Vista comes in. But a lot of people would still be happy with just having CSS in their arsenal I imagine.



I'm glad I have CSS. I used it in a mockup recently and it was perfect. I don't have a desire for Vista right now. However, that's because I'm a hobbyist and need to spend that money elsewhere. All that said, I can see that in a good number of contexts, Vista would add a really nice complementary sound to CSS. So one day far in the future, if I have the money, I can see enough value to add it on.


----------



## JGRaynaud

pawelmorytko said:


> I also really like both examples, which makes it even harder to pull the trigger. I'm pretty sure a lot of clients and non-musicians would be extremely happy with the CSS result in the final track. So you gotta ask yourself, are you just getting Vista for yourself, because you think it sounds good? I know we always strive for perfection, the best there is, and the new most innovative tools. So I guess that's where Vista comes in. But a lot of people would still be happy with just having CSS in their arsenal I imagine.



To me there are two reasons why I prefer Vista over CSS. 

1) I prefer the tone (that's subjective obviously)

2) To achieve a good result CSS takes more time to program and I like saving time on the programming when I'm able to. If I can reduce the amount of time to achieve a good result it's a big plus for me.


----------



## pawelmorytko

I like music said:


> I'm glad I have CSS. I used it in a mockup recently and it was perfect. I don't have a desire for Vista right now. However, that's because I'm a hobbyist and need to spend that money elsewhere. All that said, I can see that in a good number of contexts, Vista would add a really nice complementary sound to CSS. So one day far in the future, if I have the money, I can see enough value to add it on.


I just had a Zoom meeting today with a production library and I was humbled that they weren't actually sure if my strings were live or samples. It was all CSS/CSSS!


----------



## I like music

pawelmorytko said:


> I just had a Zoom meeting today with a production library and I was humbled that they weren't actually sure if my strings were live or samples. It was all CSS/CSSS!


Bet that felt good! I got to use CSS in that Enterprise mockup that I posted, and I was really, really impressed!


----------



## Scamper

JGRaynaud said:


> 2) To achieve a good result CSS takes more time to program and I like saving time on the programming when I'm able to. If I can reduce the amount of time to achieve a good result it's a big plus for me.



Yeah, I thought the same. While the CSS legatos are a bit more flexible, they will require work or workarounds to deal with the delays of the advanced legato. With Vista and all patches included, you can pretty much play the lines live and it's good to go, which is not really possible with CSS.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Scamper said:


> Yeah, I thought the same. While the CSS legatos are a bit more flexible, they will require work or workarounds to deal with the delays of the advanced legato. With Vista and all patches included, you can pretty much play the lines live and it's good to go, which is not really possible with CSS.


But this... is exactly how I work with CSS, by playing everything in live. And I find it super easy and fast to do.


----------



## Scamper

pawelmorytko said:


> But this... is exactly how I work with CSS, by playing everything in live. And I find it super easy and fast to do.



And you use the advanced legato without editing afterwards? If so, that's great, but I could never get used to playing the 3 legato speeds live and be always in time.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Scamper said:


> And you use the advanced legato without editing afterwards? If so, that's great, but I could never get used to playing the 3 legato speeds live and be always in time.


I don’t use the advanced legato, only the standard, which has two speeds, medium and fast (that's all you need imo). Medium is great is slower and medium passages, and fast for really quick transitions that need a more instant, and harder attack. That's it really, my playing kind of does the job for me when I play because faster passages naturally are played with higher velocity, so the legato does the fast transition for me. If something feels off after, it takes a couple nudges in start time or velocity changes and thats it.


----------



## Scamper

pawelmorytko said:


> I don’t use the advanced legato, only the standard, which has two speeds, medium and fast (that's all you need imo).



Sure, that's alright, but I at least want to make use of all capabilities, that a library has to offer and I think the advanced legato is very much worth it. But even without it, there is still a noticeable difference in delay between medium and fast legato and overall, Vista for me feels way more playable and intuitive in that regard and therefore more comfortable to use.


----------



## Casiquire

Not to derail the thread, but does CSS not allow you to record a line live using a more immediate legato, then switch legato settings and just nudge the performance back a certain number of ms?


----------



## filipjonathan

Casiquire said:


> Not to derail the thread, but does CSS not allow you to record a line live using a more immediate legato, then switch legato settings and just nudge the performance back a certain number of ms?


Yeah, there's the marcato patch that I use for that.


----------



## Casiquire

filipjonathan said:


> Yeah, there's the marcato patch that I use for that.


Why marcato instead of standard legato?


----------



## yiph2

Casiquire said:


> Why marcato instead of standard legato?


Marcato has the least delay I think


----------



## Batrawi

yiph2 said:


> Marcato has the least delay I think


There's the Classic legato patch with immediate response. Marcato is that exact same patch but with short overlay


----------



## Casiquire

yiph2 said:


> Marcato has the least delay I think


Oh ok. So you could ideally use the standard legato or marcato, and just switch the legato type after, judge the whole track back, and not have to do any more tweaking? Thanks for the insight


----------



## yiph2

Casiquire said:


> Oh ok. So you could ideally use the standard legato or marcato, and just switch the legato type after, judge the whole track back, and not have to do any more tweaking? Thanks for the insight


Not sure... I don't have CSS (hoping to get it soon tho)


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Yep, LOVE this library. Since I was just watching A Muppet Christmas Carol last night, I decided to mock up a bit of the overture.

The movie's songs were written by Paul Williams and the score here was composed and arranged by the late great Miles Goodman.

Hopefully this gives a good idea of what Vista can sound like in a different context, perhaps a more traditional orchestral context? It's not perfect but I think it sounds cool! Programming the string parts was simple- and so fun. What took the most amount of the time was figuring out all the parts by ear.


----------



## Waywyn

View attachment 2020-12-17 15-29-02.mp4



















Here is a little sketch that I did with Vista. Added a tad of slight compression and Cinematic Rooms.

By the way, why do people constantly compare single lines or even notes totally isolated? This doesn't prove anything. How does the lib perform in a mix, in at least a strings track etc.

It reminds me a bit of looking at three pairs of shoes and saying: This one *taptaptap* is the most comfortable. I mean most comfortable for what? Sitting in the living room, running a 40km marathon, or climbing?

Also, are you guys really that concerned about some artifacts? Isn't this what makes sample libraries alive? If I would have to pick between a really clean lib and less expression and one full of artifacts but expressive as hell, I would always go with option B. Live sessions in my opinion contain way more artifacts than every lib out there.

Of course, this is my opinion only, but Vista sounds absolutely alive and emotional.


----------



## Drumdude2112

Nice Intro offer too , and last till Jan 31st ...Smart move , let peeps like me recover from BF a bit lol.
I'll definitely buy it the end of next month .


----------



## Jerry Growl

I saved up a hole in my budget (tied my hands around BF) for this one. Look forward to check out for myself asap.


----------



## tebling

Loving the demos so far, but as a full Con Moto owner I'm not quite grasping the value proposition even with the loyalty discount. Does anyone have both yet?


----------



## pawelmorytko

Not gonna get into the debate about the artefacts again, there's obviously already two clear fronts about it from different people.

But I know a lot of pro's, friends of Jaspers, and NFR copy of Vista owners are defending the library to their dying breath here almost like anyone saying any constructive criticism about the library is attacking them or hates the library. Not at all the case, many of us are loving the tone of the library! It's almost like everyone has suddenly forgot how good CSS is since Vista was released. I've heard so many convincing demos with CSS, and I'm sure many of you have too. So anyone nit picking at the small things with Vista is because we already have so many strings out there doing realistic mock ups, that it's hard to justify the purchase on Vista.

But it's definitely interesting to see people's thoughts on the library, and the user's demos. I'm looking forward to hearing more styles and different string writing, to see how the library performs and how flexible it is.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

pawelmorytko said:


> But I know a lot of pro's, friends of Jaspers, and NFR copy of Vista owners are defending the library to their dying breath here



For the record, I have never received NFR copies from Performance Samples, although I'd love to in the future


----------



## Casiquire

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Yep, LOVE this library. Since I was just watching A Muppet Christmas Carol last night, I decided to mock up a bit of the overture.
> 
> The movie's songs were written by Paul Williams and the score here was composed and arranged by the late great Miles Goodman.
> 
> Hopefully this gives a good idea of what Vista can sound like in a different context, perhaps a more traditional orchestral context? It's not perfect but I think it sounds cool! Programming the string parts was simple- and so fun. What took the most amount of the time was figuring out all the parts by ear.


It sounds really nice and expressive but those awkward portamentos...


----------



## AEF

I wish the Violins vibrato was closer to the level the celli are at. Its just far too intense to be used outside of a few moments here and there.


----------



## pawelmorytko

NathanTiemeyer said:


> For the record, I have never received NFR copies from Performance Samples, although I'd love to in the future


No I know, there's lots of people who bought the library and love it, and that's great! But I just don't want people to think anyone raising their concerns about the library's limitations means that they think it's an awful library or that they hate the sound of it. People are actually concerned about the amount of noise in the samples, and some of the legato not being anything ground breaking - for a legato only string library... Those are perfectly fine concerns I would have thought, and some people even preferred library A during the blind shootout which was Century strings I believe? You can't make that up, people just have different opinions and tastes I guess


----------



## Paul Jelfs

We need a walkthrough /PLAYthrough on Youtube ! Thats the only thing I think is missing from PS marketing these days. 

By the way, you can smooth out the bumpiness on the starts of the note with the Attack threshold - quite high values. But it is not midi assignable !!!! Should still show up in Cubase under Automation parameters though right? RIGHT??!!


----------



## Sovereign

After playing with Vista some more my impression remains that it's hardly a CSS killer by far and most suited as a (good) complementary library, not a replacement. I find Vista unnuanced at times, especially in regards to a large amount of vibrato at the lowest/lower dynamics, which I personally feel is not as desirable. It becomes too restless.

Since John Williams and Vista get mentioned in the same breath, let me demonstrate what I mean by this by taking a specific Williams piece. One done with CSS, the other with Vista. I also included 30s of the original track for reference. Judge for yourself.


----------



## muziksculp

Marco_D said:


> I guess Vista is more playable, thanks to the consistent delay.



That's about to change, once CSS is updated.


----------



## Toecutter

Sovereign said:


> After playing with Vista some more my impression remains that it's hardly a CSS killer by far and most suited as a (good) complementary library, not a replacement. I find Vista unnuanced at times, especially in regards to a large amount of vibrato at the lowest/lower dynamics, which I personally feel is not as desirable. It becomes too restless.
> 
> Since John Williams and Vista get mentioned in the same breath, let me demonstrate what I mean by this by taking a specific Williams piece. One done with CSS, the other with Vista. I also included 30s of the original track for reference. Judge for yourself.


Thanks, very revealing. CSS is my favorite here! I find the vibrato in Vista too over the top and constant, nothing like Williams. Notice how the original has a progressive vibrato, much more dynamic and expressive. CSS gets a lot closer to the Williams sound in my opinion. I hope I don't get shot for saying that.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Also I might get ripped apart for this opinion, but I genuinely think that the CSS legato is still better for the most part. Here's me playing around with the Vista freebie and comparing to my CSS/CSSS violins patch. No midi or cc copy and pasting, tried to make each sound as best as I could.

My personal notes on how Vista did:

Example 1 - sounds a bit sluggish on the legato I think? A bit whiny perhaps with the transitions.
Example 2 - It did better in this example, but still a bit of that delayed transition which gives it that almost like a choked stutter
Example 3 - That A to F was a bit of a whiny transition, and when it was repeated a few times in the phrase you could clearly hear it repeating the same sample over and over
Example 4 - Another weird transition, and when repeated a few times for the sake of the melody, seems rather obvious that it's a sample

Overall I thought the CSS/CSSS legato was great and smooth throughout. But a lot of the time I just simply preferred the tone of Vista.



Edit: I know someone will mention the reverb, but I just had the same effects on them which is just how my template is set up, and I don't really like naked comparisons anyway.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

I realise a lot of people here love CSS - I do too. It is seen as the benchmark in Legato, and one of the best all round purchases. But do we need to keep bringing it up as a comparison to Vista? 

After all the section sizes are really different- CSS has 17 violins vs 5 for Vista. Surely we want to know how it compares to libraries that aim for the same thing - Soaring Strings, Con Moto, or a library with a small chamber size string section. 

CSS is known as having some of the best legatos, so I see that comparison, and the price of Vista is high compared to its utility, but its legatos are different enough, to consider it as additional purchase , IF you like its vibrato heavy, yearning sound. Not better legato. Different. Horses for course?


----------



## Craig Sharmat

I like this comparison, I think it really shows how different the two are. For pure emotion Vista wins hands down to my ears. Yes there is a bit of weirdness but no question for an emotional phrase which I would go to first.


----------



## JGRaynaud

I agree that it depends of the style. Vista is more oriented for lush writing than very soft writing ideally. Thats why I said that to me CSS will complement Vista. I can use it for stuff where I need less vibrato (which in my case is rare.. it can be the opposite for other people)

But start writing something like that and it does have the John Williams sound more than CSS to me :


----------



## filipjonathan

JGRaynaud said:


> I agree that it depends of the style. Vista is more oriented for lush writing than very soft writing ideally. Thats why I said that to me CSS will complement Vista. I can use it for stuff where I need less vibrato (which in my case is rare.. it can be the opposite for other people)
> 
> But start writing something like that and it does have the John Williams sound more than CSS to me :



Oooh, I would LOVE to hear Vista on Hatikvah from Munich!!!


----------



## Ashermusic

I have never had a problem making CSS


JGRaynaud said:


> I agree that it depends of the style. Vista is more oriented for lush writing than very soft writing ideally.




It's what 5 violins, 4 Violas, 3 Cellos 3 Basses? That doesn't scream "lush" or JW to me.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Guys we've solved it! Every string library is good for different things.

So what have we learned from all this?... Buy *ALL* the string libraries!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

pawelmorytko said:


> Guys we've solved it! Every string library is good for different things.
> 
> So what have we learned from all this?... Buy *ALL* the string libraries!


Won't need to when Infinite Strings comes out 😉


----------



## JGRaynaud

Ashermusic said:


> It's what 5 violins, 4 Violas, 3 Cellos 3 Basses? That doesn't scream "lush" or JW to me.



Listening with the eyes isn't the best way to judge a sample library :D 

By the way you can also read "*Larger-Than-Life Chamber Strings* " meaning it doesn't sound like such a small ensemble.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> After playing with Vista some more my impression remains that it's hardly a CSS killer by far and most suited as a (good) complementary library, not a replacement. I find Vista unnuanced at times, especially in regards to a large amount of vibrato at the lowest/lower dynamics, which I personally feel is not as desirable. It becomes too restless.
> 
> Since John Williams and Vista get mentioned in the same breath, let me demonstrate what I mean by this by taking a specific Williams piece. One done with CSS, the other with Vista. I also included 30s of the original track for reference. Judge for yourself.



CSS sounds best. Thanks for the demos.


----------



## Toecutter

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Won't need to when Infinite Strings comes out 😉


Don't even start!!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Sovereign said:


> After playing with Vista some more my impression remains that it's hardly a CSS killer by far and most suited as a (good) complementary library, not a replacement. I find Vista unnuanced at times, especially in regards to a large amount of vibrato at the lowest/lower dynamics, which I personally feel is not as desirable. It becomes too restless.
> 
> Since John Williams and Vista get mentioned in the same breath, let me demonstrate what I mean by this by taking a specific Williams piece. One done with CSS, the other with Vista. I also included 30s of the original track for reference. Judge for yourself.


That's a more calm piece which I'd probably use more CSS for too. For these 'measured trills' or repeating note legato passages both sound bad without RR legato. A limitation of most libraries and makes me wonder why there aren't more recorded medium/slow measured trills except in Berlin Strings SFX.

On the other hand, in Jean's comparison is massively preferred Vista, so it's a great example to me of how different pieces call for different libraries. 
I'm gonna use the strengths of both, they layer very well! :D Definitely recommend trying some blending with these 2 puppies. :D


----------



## muziksculp

My conclusion after checking more of the posted demos, and based on the Strings libraries I have. 

I don't need Vista. 

Looking forward to other new Strings Libraries that are coming soon


----------



## Ashermusic

JGRaynaud said:


> Listening with the eyes isn't the best way to judge a sample library :D



I downloaded the freebie and just tried it. I don't like it. Noisy, too much vibrato.


----------



## N.Caffrey

Ashermusic said:


> I downloaded the freebie and just tried it. I don't like it.


Me neither. The demo by *JGRaynaud *sounded nice, but once I tried the freebie I didn't click with it and deleted it.


----------



## ScarletJerry

I hear that a new version is coming out called "Performance Samples Anthology: part of the Vista Series" where all of the samples will be de-noised and the artifacts will be removed. The only problem is that people will complain that the new library has lost some of its "air" and emotion, and then everyone will ask to have a copy of the original library.


----------



## Robert_G

The demos just don't do it for me. I can't see where I would use this in place of the other string libs I already own. Many of the demos they have are prime candidates for CSS which I own. A bit softer and I'll use Century Strings....and for a real 'normal' chamber strings arrangement, I'll use Light and Sound.


----------



## I like music

One thing I like here is that it was released without any of that wanky marketing that companies generate. And also he gives us a demo patch! 

Nothing but good practice and good attitude to customers here, as far as I am concerned.

Refreshing!


----------



## lettucehat

Toecutter said:


> I hope I don't get shot for saying that.





pawelmorytko said:


> Also I might get ripped apart for this opinion



I'm sorry but where is any of this coming from? This thread has become 2:1 critics, and the harshest thing anyone has said in the library's defense is "I don't know, I think it sounds really great and forgive its flaws."


----------



## JEPA




----------



## emasters

I appreciate their low-key marketing approach. Given my other string libraries already owned, will pass. It is amazing how many string libraries keep coming to market -- it seems as if there's unlimited demand. Good for developers, back for the bank account.


----------



## MGdepp

I must admit, so far I escaped most libraries by Performance Samples. I wonder, why doesn't that guy just record a few more articulations! Using string samples, I rarely use legato only and - depending on the composition - I sometimes use very few legato at all.

But after buying the latest Berlin Symphonic Strings today I might rethink a little ... ok, with Vista I have to pay nearly as much for a Chamber Setting legato only, lacking second violins, as I just payed for a full symphonic size including second violin and a ton of articulations! But what if that Vista library makes quite a lot more impact on the quality of my mockups? Not to say that Berlin Symphonic Strings will sound bad in any context. But I have so many string libraries already and the Vista demos have a sound that I cannot replicate with any of them ... hmm ...

I guess I still think he should record a couple more articulations, but I have to think about this.


----------



## tc9000

I'm very dissapointed. I bought Vista and yet _still _I suck at 4 part harmonies. Outrageous!

Seriously though, I love it! It's small, noisy, intimate, and emotional. Not going to replace CSS, but neither is Hollywood Strings and I love that too 🙃 

It is compact and constrained: four legato patches and a harp. (And two bonus patches: ensemble sustains and one more 3 violins overlay legato). 

I think you need to prepare to live with it's shortcomings, as with many interesting, rewarding things in life... but OH if you like that sound...


----------



## Casiquire

Sovereign said:


> After playing with Vista some more my impression remains that it's hardly a CSS killer by far and most suited as a (good) complementary library, not a replacement. I find Vista unnuanced at times, especially in regards to a large amount of vibrato at the lowest/lower dynamics, which I personally feel is not as desirable. It becomes too restless.
> 
> Since John Williams and Vista get mentioned in the same breath, let me demonstrate what I mean by this by taking a specific Williams piece. One done with CSS, the other with Vista. I also included 30s of the original track for reference. Judge for yourself.


The passion in these is great but wow, the legatos in Vista really aren't impressing me at all!


----------



## Symfoniq

Casiquire said:


> The passion in these is great but wow, the legatos in Vista really aren't impressing me at all!



In Vista's defense (I don't have it, but I do have and love CSS), I don't think that's the string sound most people are referring to when they talk about the "John Williams sound." It's a beautiful piece, but obviously that contemplative style is more suitable to CSS. I think Vista would sound better on a more "soaring" theme.


----------



## peladio

pawelmorytko said:


> But I know a lot of pro's, friends of Jaspers, and NFR copy of Vista owners are defending the library to their dying breath here almost like anyone saying any constructive criticism about the library is attacking them or hates the library.



Very good point..I think people who receive free products should be required to say so..it does automatically render their opinion about the library mostly useless as I'm yet to see who'll risk the chance for getting free stuff and pissing off the developer by offering anything but praise and defending them here..

Maybe someone like re-peat who actually offers brutal but always extremely precise criticism..NFR people..not so much..

So user demos and reviews by people who actually bought it are invaluable to me..also hoping for Cory Pelizzari and Daniel James reviews

Big fan of Performance samples btw and will get Vista surely even though I'm not as impressed by demo patch as expected..


----------



## ScarletJerry

Another demo


----------



## Craig Sharmat

Bought it and thought I would like it but it is exceeding expectations. Only using it on Jazz arrangements currently but it really sings and the transitions are great.


----------



## David Kudell

Every string library has its strengths.

CSS for slow legato and portamento.
I don’t have Vista (yet) but demos sound great for romantic melodic lines and faster playability than CSS.
Berlin Strings does it all well and has every articulation under the sun.
Berlin Symphonic Strings adds melodic legato which to me stands up to CSS, but with much faster responsiveness than CSS, more players, and the Teldex sound. The dynamic range goes from very soft to powerful (combine cello and basses and it almost sounds like Metropolis Ark)

Oh and I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention Spitfire which has many solid options as well. 👍

Edit: And don't forget Sunset Strings, I just got that one too. 2020 is the year of the string library!


----------



## Ashermusic

Craig Sharmat said:


> Bought it and thought I would like it but it is exceeding expectations. Only using it on Jazz arrangements currently but it really sings and the transitions are great.



I don’t remember you ever getting a new library and not liking it


----------



## Craig Sharmat

Ashermusic said:


> I don’t remember you ever getting a new library and not liking it



The only time I don't like a library is when I can hear the possibilities and once I get the library I can't or have trouble pulling off what inspired me. I don't go looking for better, I look for for a sound that inspires me and that often is a better articulation or different than what I have. Many libraries have fallen by the wayside. There have been a few that have been clunkers but most of the time I hear good stuff from developers. I guess that is why I have over four thousand cues in my library (not necessarily four thousand great cues) besides my artist material.

Back on topic Vista is already getting play and it is embellishing my jazz arrangements quite nicely, almost sublimely.

Though not a Vista cue, the sweeting I did with it turned a somewhat thin sounding arrangement into a lusher one. Still a ruff mix but close...For anyone keeping score I am the guitarist slightly panned left, Neil Andersson slightly right.









That's All ruff.mp3


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Henning

peladio said:


> Very good point..I think people who receive free products should be required to say so..it does automatically render their opinion about the library mostly useless as I'm yet to see who'll risk the chance for getting free stuff and pissing off the developer by offering anything but praise and defending them here..
> 
> Maybe someone like re-peat who actually offers brutal but always extremely precise criticism..NFR people..not so much..
> 
> So user demos and reviews by people who actually bought it are invaluable to me..also hoping for Cory Pelizzari and Daniel James reviews
> 
> Big fan of Performance samples btw and will get Vista surely even though I'm not as impressed by demo patch as expected..


This is a topic that comes up quite a lot. I can perhaps offer a bit of my perspective. I have received an NFR for this one. I actually work together with a bunch of developers doing beta testing/demo writing. Why do I do it? It's certainly not for the money. There's a few where I get a bit of compensation but mostly I get the libs and that's it. I earn my living with writing music for games and a bit of library music here and there. And if I need a lib for my work I buy it and that's that. So why the extra effort spending time and resources on testing libraries in development?

First of all it makes me get out of my own head. Lots of times I'm confronted with instruments that are new and exciting and which I usually don't have any experience with. I really never thought about the Gypsy stylle of violin playing until RRA came up with a sampled version. Or the Ibrido Favola sounddesign thingie by Sonokinetic, I first thought, brilliant idea but what do I do with this? And then I start thinking in different directions and come up with things that are often way out of my comfort zone and I end up writing things I never would have done without these libs. 

Also it helps me to keep updated on the latest developments in sample libraries. There's always new ideas how to do things and I get confronted with them directly without having to find out about them in other ways.

Anther point is that it's great to be able to put in some ideas myself and discuss them. And also to see if they are even possible to do. So I often get a better understanding how the engine works, etc and it broadens my horizon on the technical side of how the libs are constructed.

So, with Vista I really did not do that much. I mostly had suggestions and ideas that I pitched to Jasper. Some made it into the instrument, some did not. I actually would have bought Vista myself if he had not kindly sent me an NFR. I actually purchased most of his releases in the past. I really love Vista's sound and playability. It totally wowed me when I played the first apha patch. But certainly it's not the sample library to end all sample libraries. It's a lovely new colour in my palette. It's not for every situation and it certainly is not for everyone. 

So when I say I love a library it's really just that. There's no obligation for me to do so. I made it a habit of mentioning in my forum statements whenever I was involved in the development of a library. I have seen other NFR users do it as well. It's just the fair thing to do.

What I can only say here is that this library (and I think that goes with all of Jasper's libs) is certainly a labour of love. I really don't want to imagine how much blood and sweat he must have put into it. And if you listen to his demos you see how he has intented it to be used. It is what it is but for me it's pure liveliness, full of expression and certainly getting much use in my own work.


----------



## BL

Just checking, but are the mics only close and decca for the full version? Are they not the same as found in Con Moto?


----------



## I like music

Henning said:


> if you listen to his demos you see how he has intented it to be used.


This! Also, @DarkestShadow doing all that extensive noodling was super helpful. I think that the 5+ minute noodling was at most dynamics, and most intervals, across most of the range etc so that should give us a pretty good idea of what the library does and doesn't do. Caveat here is that hearing all the sections as a coherent group gives a really complete picture of what the library does. And that's where the next paragraph comes in.


Key here is that people have around 6 more weeks for the intro price. This is a _very_ long period of time during which we'll hear all kinds of demos from users (hopefully) so no one feels pressured to buy, or take a chance. That way you'll hear them used in various styles, in context, and be able to make up your mind.


Much better than "It comes out on Sunday, you have till Monday to get an intro price, we're going to release a single demo in which the brass covers up the strings so you still don't know what the product sounds like, and no, you don't get a test/demo patch."

Anyhow, this library isn't for me right now, but I'm _really_ glad someone made this kind of library and I'm glad he's doing what he's doing. I feel that the market is mostly saturated with great comprehensive options (e.g. HWS, Berlin Strings, and quite a few others) ranging from $150 to $1,000. Generally I'd say you should be looking at this to add another colour. And that's exactly why Jasper created this. If you're even _slightly_ doubtful about it, then you have no good reason to buy it (unless you have tons of spare cash). That advice should be true for any library out there.


----------



## Manaberry

DarkestShadow said:


> Over 20 minutes of me hammering on my keyboard with Vista.



Wow, I didn't expect that much noise on the harp sample.


----------



## synergy543

@DarkestShadow - Yes, thank you for the extensive realtime demo. Very helpful and nice improves too.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Anyone up for doing a Cory like playthrough of this Library ? So few snippets of videos out there, or demos for that matter.


----------



## Waywyn

Paul Jelfs said:


> Anyone up for doing a Cory like playthrough of this Library ? So few snippets of videos out there, or demos for that matter.



Will be doing a live stream on Vista for sure, can't exactly say when.


----------



## Eptesicus

ScarletJerry said:


> Another demo




I like this one a lot.


----------



## Montisquirrel

ScarletJerry said:


> Another demo




Beautiful.


----------



## Eptesicus

Thought i might pick up one of the con moto instruments to get the vista discount....then realised they discontinued the individual instruments and i missed that sale. Bummer :/. Had almost convinced myself to buy it then as there was more value what with getting another instrument too but now im back to square one. What was the rational behind making con moto bundle only? Seems odd.

I wonder if he will ever do a great value strings bundle with both con moto and vista together.

How about one last 60% off sale on the individual con moto modules for Christmas


----------



## marclawsonmusic

Craig Sharmat said:


> Though not a Vista cue, the sweeting I did with it turned a somewhat thin sounding arrangement into a lusher one. Still a ruff mix but close...For anyone keeping score I am the guitarist slightly panned left, Neil Andersson slightly right.



Definitely think Vista added a lot to this arrangement. Lovely writing too!


----------



## I like music

Eptesicus said:


> I like this one a lot.



Yes. Wonderful! The library shines especially with those violins in the middle.
But my main takeaway is that I _need to get better at the music thing_ _itself_.

And then I can use such a library in the right way.


----------



## pawelmorytko

ScarletJerry said:


> Another demo



Beautiful composition! Something isn't sitting right with me about the legato still though, some passages, especially the cello, and particularly when exposed, just doesn't sound very convincing to me. But when the full section came in, the violins especially sounded great.


----------



## Ashermusic

Craig Sharmat said:


> Th only time I don't like a library is when I can hear the possibilities and once I get the library I can't or have trouble pulling off what inspired me. I don't go looking for better, I look for for a sound that inspires me and that often is a better articulation or different than what I have. Many libraries have fallen by the wayside. There have been a few that have been clunkers but most of the time I hear good stuff from developers. I guess that is why I have over four thousand cues in my library (not necessarily four thousand great cues) besides my artist material.
> 
> Back on topic Vista is already getting play and it is embellishing my jazz arrangements quite nicely, almost sublimely.
> 
> Though not a Vista cue, the sweeting I did with it turned a somewhat thin sounding arrangement into a lusher one. Still a ruff mix but close...For anyone keeping score I am the guitarist slightly panned left, Neil Andersson slightly right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's All ruff.mp3
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com



just teasing, but I am pretty sure that if I took away 80% of what you own and you only had the rest you would still create great sounding music.

But your demo does showcase what it does well.


----------



## Go To 11

ScarletJerry said:


> Another demo



This is stunning!


----------



## Go To 11

Craig Sharmat said:


> Th only time I don't like a library is when I can hear the possibilities and once I get the library I can't or have trouble pulling off what inspired me. I don't go looking for better, I look for for a sound that inspires me and that often is a better articulation or different than what I have. Many libraries have fallen by the wayside. There have been a few that have been clunkers but most of the time I hear good stuff from developers. I guess that is why I have over four thousand cues in my library (not necessarily four thousand great cues) besides my artist material.
> 
> Back on topic Vista is already getting play and it is embellishing my jazz arrangements quite nicely, almost sublimely.
> 
> Though not a Vista cue, the sweeting I did with it turned a somewhat thin sounding arrangement into a lusher one. Still a ruff mix but close...For anyone keeping score I am the guitarist slightly panned left, Neil Andersson slightly right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's All ruff.mp3
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Love your guitar playing - totally forgot why I was listening in the first place. Great style, love that Gypsy Jazz.


----------



## rpmusic

zolhof said:


> Vista – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Currently in post-production, demos sound gorgeous!
> 
> *Price: $249 intro, $339 full, $199 CM loyalty*
> 
> Released!


I now have this library and I can only say one thing...amazing. It’s rare that I get excited about a new “string library’ but the realism in this set basically is the best that I’ve heard. This definitely is a “must have” in anyone “arsenal“ and am already starting to use it in the TV series that I’m scoring...great work that makes my work easier!


----------



## Henning

Craig Sharmat said:


> Th only time I don't like a library is when I can hear the possibilities and once I get the library I can't or have trouble pulling off what inspired me. I don't go looking for better, I look for for a sound that inspires me and that often is a better articulation or different than what I have. Many libraries have fallen by the wayside. There have been a few that have been clunkers but most of the time I hear good stuff from developers. I guess that is why I have over four thousand cues in my library (not necessarily four thousand great cues) besides my artist material.
> 
> Back on topic Vista is already getting play and it is embellishing my jazz arrangements quite nicely, almost sublimely.
> 
> Though not a Vista cue, the sweeting I did with it turned a somewhat thin sounding arrangement into a lusher one. Still a ruff mix but close...For anyone keeping score I am the guitarist slightly panned left, Neil Andersson slightly right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's All ruff.mp3
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Lovely Craig! Vista nails that sound perfectly. Really cool!


----------



## Hendrixon

pawelmorytko said:


> So what have we learned from all this?... Buy *ALL* the string libraries!



I just tried it... doesn't work well.


----------



## prodigalson

Someone earlier mentioned wanting to hear Vista do JW's 'Munich' so here it is doing Avner's Theme

All VISTA with a low cut from 20hz, a little 7th Heaven and gentle liming for volume.


----------



## Symfoniq

prodigalson said:


> Someone earlier mentioned wanting to hear Vista do JW's 'Munich' so here it is doing Avner's Theme
> 
> All VISTA with a low cut from 20hz, a little 7th Heaven and gentle liming for volume.




Very nice! I think you just sold me.

It's also proof that there isn't just one "John Williams sound". Vista does that particular "John Williams sound" very well. CSS did "A New Beginning" from Minority Report better. Can't have too many colors...


----------



## Eptesicus

Big brain sales move for performance samples -

Christmas/New year flash sale on con moto bundle for 60% off.

Buyers then get con moto on sale for the best price ever ( i believe previous best discount on the bundle was 50% off), and the extra $50 off for vista tips them over the edge to buy that too before the promo period ends....

Happy to take the a small cut of commission from this obviously brilliant sales/marketing idea


----------



## Hendrixon

Craig Sharmat said:


> Th only time I don't like a library is when I can hear the possibilities and once I get the library I can't or have trouble pulling off what inspired me. I don't go looking for better, I look for for a sound that inspires me and that often is a better articulation or different than what I have. Many libraries have fallen by the wayside. There have been a few that have been clunkers but most of the time I hear good stuff from developers. I guess that is why I have over four thousand cues in my library (not necessarily four thousand great cues) besides my artist material.
> 
> Back on topic Vista is already getting play and it is embellishing my jazz arrangements quite nicely, almost sublimely.
> 
> Though not a Vista cue, the sweeting I did with it turned a somewhat thin sounding arrangement into a lusher one. Still a ruff mix but close...For anyone keeping score I am the guitarist slightly panned left, Neil Andersson slightly right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's All ruff.mp3
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com



Vista?!
Pfffffff I didn't hear anything because of those guitars lol
Wow! just wow!

Anyone that plays guitars like that has my respect.
You say you like Vista?
I believe you


----------



## Craig Sharmat

Hendrixon said:


> Vista?!
> Pfffffff I didn't hear anything because of those guitars lol
> Wow! just wow!
> 
> Anyone that plays guitars like that has my respect.
> You say you like Vista?
> I believe you



thanks, as mentioned originally I used Vista to Sweeten so you are hearing more than Vista but I love what it added.


----------



## Ashermusic

Craig Sharmat said:


> thanks, as mentioned originally I used Vista to Sweeten so you are hearing more than Vista but I love what it added.




OK, Craig, spill the beans, added to what?


----------



## Craig Sharmat

Ashermusic said:


> OK, Craig, spill the beans, added to what?



Well guitars and bass of course, also some live vi overdubs, (one person) mostly Afflatus and a couple of Mancini string lines from 8dio. Track though sounded thin as what often happens when you add solo violin instead of a real recorded section, Vista literally fixed that.


----------



## GingerMaestro

Might someone be able to demonstrate the same note bowed repetitions ? (with the sustain pedal depressed) How flexible is this and how fast can it repeat without breaking ? Thanks so much...


----------



## artomatic

Craig Sharmat said:


> Th only time I don't like a library is when I can hear the possibilities and once I get the library I can't or have trouble pulling off what inspired me. I don't go looking for better, I look for for a sound that inspires me and that often is a better articulation or different than what I have. Many libraries have fallen by the wayside. There have been a few that have been clunkers but most of the time I hear good stuff from developers. I guess that is why I have over four thousand cues in my library (not necessarily four thousand great cues) besides my artist material.
> 
> Back on topic Vista is already getting play and it is embellishing my jazz arrangements quite nicely, almost sublimely.
> 
> Though not a Vista cue, the sweeting I did with it turned a somewhat thin sounding arrangement into a lusher one. Still a ruff mix but close...For anyone keeping score I am the guitarist slightly panned left, Neil Andersson slightly right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's All ruff.mp3
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com




Love how Vista was used here. Really lush and lovely! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## zolhof

Craig Sharmat said:


> Th only time I don't like a library is when I can hear the possibilities and once I get the library I can't or have trouble pulling off what inspired me. I don't go looking for better, I look for for a sound that inspires me and that often is a better articulation or different than what I have. Many libraries have fallen by the wayside. There have been a few that have been clunkers but most of the time I hear good stuff from developers. I guess that is why I have over four thousand cues in my library (not necessarily four thousand great cues) besides my artist material.
> 
> Back on topic Vista is already getting play and it is embellishing my jazz arrangements quite nicely, almost sublimely.
> 
> Though not a Vista cue, the sweeting I did with it turned a somewhat thin sounding arrangement into a lusher one. Still a ruff mix but close...For anyone keeping score I am the guitarist slightly panned left, Neil Andersson slightly right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's All ruff.mp3
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com



Great playing and tone, Craig. Mad respect! Guitars are stealing the show, but the strings are lovely too.

And so much to digest in this thread. There are some concerns I would like to address, especially this one:



Toecutter said:


> Noises were accepted in old recording not because it had "character" or gave a "cool vibe man". Engineers simply couldn't do better, limited by technology and were literally perfecting the techniques we use today as they went along.
> 
> Try to sell this idea to Alan Meyerson or Simon Rhodes today XD They work their asses off to get pristine recordings "But Hans Zimmer Strings and Abbey Road One have noises too" we are talking about 5 occurrences max in libraries with 20x the content of Vista, THAT I can understand.
> 
> It's ok to like Vista, I think it has qualities too, but in my opinion to try to convince people that sloppy and noisy recordings in Vista are acceptable in 2020, you either are stuck in a time capsule, have low standards or only work with amateurs.



You make valid points and I agree that we should always strive for the best outcome possible. Yes, Vista is noisy, it's right there in the Limitations tab. I didn't hear those noises in the demos so I was quite surprised and initially disappointed. Having said that, in my experience, the raw recordings in Vista are no worse than the raw recordings of sessions I attended. Not a single amateur in the room, by the way. Timing issues, bad intonation or plain wrong notes are the ones you should keep your radar on. Vista does not have this sort of performance issues. It takes a few mouse clicks to remove noises in a non-destructive way, but good luck fixing a mediocre sampled performance.

I will try to post something later this month if I don't get consumed by work. It's a track I'm very fond of, something I've been trying to do for quite a while with other string libraries, including CSS, Con Moto and others that are frequently brought up here, and couldn't quite get it right until now (hopefully). So far, I'm really enjoying Vista for what it was meant to be used.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

peladio said:


> Very good point..I think people who receive free products should be required to say so..it does automatically render their opinion about the library mostly useless as I'm yet to see who'll risk the chance for getting free stuff and pissing off the developer by offering anything but praise and defending them here..
> 
> Maybe someone like re-peat who actually offers brutal but always extremely precise criticism..NFR people..not so much..
> 
> So user demos and reviews by people who actually bought it are invaluable to me..also hoping for Cory Pelizzari and Daniel James reviews
> 
> Big fan of Performance samples btw and will get Vista surely even though I'm not as impressed by demo patch as expected..


Opinions are always useless.
Libraries are as subjective as music and other arts. If I would listen to most people commenting here I wouldn't waste a second checking out Vista. And I would have missed out on my all time fav legato library.

And I never understood the idea why receiving something for free means ultimately your opinion is meaningless.
I have hated some libraries (even though just 1-2) I received as a demo writer/tester. I hated composing with them and deleted the beta and full version.
It's entirely irrelevant.


----------



## Peter Satera

DarkestShadow said:


> I have hated some libraries (even though just 1-2) I received as a demo writer/tester. I hated composing with them and deleted the beta and full version.
> It's entirely irrelevant.



Probably best not to go down this road as a beta tester.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Peter Satera said:


> Probably best not to go down this road as a beta tester.


Don't get it. Off topic anyway..


----------



## Toecutter

zolhof said:


> You make valid points and I agree that we should always strive for the best outcome possible. Yes, Vista is noisy, it's right there in the Limitations tab. I didn't hear those noises in the demos so I was quite surprised and initially disappointed. Having said that, in my experience, the raw recordings in Vista are no worse than the raw recordings of sessions I attended. Not a single amateur in the room, by the way. Timing issues, bad intonation or plain wrong notes are the ones you should keep your radar on. Vista does not have this sort of performance issues. It takes a few mouse clicks to remove noises in a non-destructive way, but good luck fixing a mediocre sampled performance.


Hey thanks for making a point and being respectful about it unlike some here who say opinions are useless. Why even join a forum called "Musicians helping musicians" if you are going to be this dismissive to everyone else? Certainly doesn't look good for Performance Samples to be associated with individuals like that.

Rant aside, I shared my "concerns" with some nice Vista users in private and you are right, it doesn't seem to bother them. Noises bug the hell out of me. I don't have an assistant or the patience to clean samples and try to stay away from noisy libraries, hence my interest in MSS, I was told noise won't be a problem. Are you going to get MSS too?



zolhof said:


> I will try to post something later this month if I don't get consumed by work.



Cool beans. I wanna hear what you come up with, that MSB mockup changed my perspective on the library, you have my attention


----------



## lettucehat

Toecutter said:


> Hey thanks for making a point and being respectful about it unlike some here





Toecutter said:


> to try to convince people that sloppy and noisy recordings in Vista are acceptable in 2020, you either are stuck in a time capsule, have low standards or only work with amateurs.


----------



## CT

Maybe we can all just be grateful that we have the opportunity to work with this technology which gives voice to music that otherwise might go unheard, and use whatever little variant of that technology makes us most happy, without turning those choices and preferences into yet more opportunities to bicker away the fleeting sliver of precious time that we are allotted.

❤


----------



## gst98

Toecutter said:


> Hey thanks for making a point and being respectful about it unlike some here who say opinions are useless. Why even join a forum called "Musicians helping musicians" if you are going to be this dismissive to everyone else? Certainly doesn't look good for Performance Samples to be associated with individuals like that.
> 
> Rant aside, I shared my "concerns" with some nice Vista users in private and you are right, it doesn't seem to bother them. Noises bug the hell out of me. I don't have an assistant or the patience to clean samples and try to stay away from noisy libraries, hence my interest in MSS, I was told noise won't be a problem. Are you going to get MSS too?
> 
> 
> 
> Cool beans. I wanna hear what you come up with, that MSB mockup changed my perspective on the library, you have my attention



I can’t tell if you’re trolling or not...


----------



## tc9000

cross posting:






Library Spotlight - Vista Strings


Get it here: https://www.performancesamples.com/vista/




vi-control.net


----------



## Toecutter

@lettucehat Hey it wasn't my intention to make you feel bad. You forgot to quote the part where I say it's my opinion and that Vista has many qualities too. I'm talking about one aspect of the library that I strongly dislike and don't know how else to put it. Despite being a nobody I worked on many productions wearing many hats and what I said holds true to what I've seen: some ppl romanticize imperfection because of a time where imperfections couldn't be dealt with. The techniques and technology improved a lot. I don't think the engineers I worked with would be okay with the noises I heard in Vista. They were pros in big budget gigs and would get the boot otherwise. That's what I meant about not having low standards and working with amateurs.

I don't want to derail the thread, just felt the need to explain my words after the misquote and troll comment. No hard feelings lettuce and @gst98, feel free to PM me if you are still unhappy and we can have a nice chat about it. Happy holidays! 🎄


----------



## TeamLeader

Scamper said:


> It sounds great, it's quite playable and the dynamic range is solid from p to f.



So by _playable_ you are meaning the delay is not bothersome to emote on the fly? Thanks!!


----------



## Dirk Ehlert

Did a little something on stream yesterday... I think Vista is incredibly easy to write with plus I think it has one of the most convincing "tones" out there
Happy holidays folks.


----------



## Scamper

TeamLeader said:


> So by _playable_ you are meaning the delay is not bothersome to emote on the fly? Thanks!!



Yes, I find no issue in Vista with performing lines live.
The delay is certainly there (140ms) and roughly the same as CSS fast legato, but it's consistent throughout and I think that's most important to get a good feel for it and to compensate. For me, I can tolerate a certain degree of delay and get used to it, but different folks might have different tolerance levels for it.


----------



## Dirk Ehlert

hbjdk said:


> Sounds good, good mixing too. What reverb are you using here?


For the most part Cinematic Rooms.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

All those who are still on the fence. There are already quite a lot of audio demos and walkthroughs from Vista users, but let there be a little from me too.

This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.

Here they are:
1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core
10 - EastWest - Hollywood String(Mid+Close+Main+SRND)_Legacy
11 - Audio Ollie - Nashville Scoring Strings(close+decca+wide+surr.)
12 - Performance Samples - Vista


----------



## Casiquire

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> All those who are still on the fence. There are already quite a lot of audio demos and walkthroughs from Vista users, but let there be a little from me too.
> 
> This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.
> 
> Here they are:
> 1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
> 2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
> 3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
> 4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
> 5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
> 6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
> 7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
> 8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
> 9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core
> 10 - EastWest - Hollywood String(Mid+Close+Main+SRND)_Legacy
> 11 - Audio Ollie - Nashville Scoring Strings(close+decca+wide+surr.)
> 12 - Performance Samples - Vista



Nobody is upset about you adding your voice! Thank you for this


----------



## artomatic

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> All those who are still on the fence. There are already quite a lot of audio demos and walkthroughs from Vista users, but let there be a little from me too.
> This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.
> 
> 2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)





Out of all the library tests, I gravitated to Hollywood Strings Diamond.
Why? Because of the portamento. I wish all the string libraries have this articulation.
I liked HS, CSS and Vista.


----------



## Kevperry777

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> All those who are still on the fence. There are already quite a lot of audio demos and walkthroughs from Vista users, but let there be a little from me too.
> 
> This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.
> 
> Here they are:
> 1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
> 2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
> 3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
> 4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
> 5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
> 6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
> 7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
> 8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
> 9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core
> 10 - EastWest - Hollywood String(Mid+Close+Main+SRND)_Legacy
> 11 - Audio Ollie - Nashville Scoring Strings(close+decca+wide+surr.)
> 12 - Performance Samples - Vista




Nice, thank you for this. Lots of nice sounding moments throughout. 

SCS sounded wonky in spots...but that’s usually my experience with it. Lots of sucking sound in the note changes and those runs at the end were bad. 

CInestrings had a cello solo. Lol. 

CSS, EW, Vista - all nice. Berlin sounded better than I expected. 

With all the discussion around symphonic strings lately....SSS still is at the top for me in terms of big symphony hall tone.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Kevperry777 said:


> Nice, thank you for this. Lots of nice sounding moments throughout.
> 
> SCS sounded wonky in spots...but that’s usually my experience with it. Lots of sucking sound in the note changes and those runs at the end were bad.
> 
> CInestrings had a cello solo. Lol.
> 
> CSS, EW, Vista - all nice. Berlin sounded better than I expected.
> 
> With all the discussion around symphonic strings lately....SSS still is at the top for me in terms of big symphony hall tone.


Like many people here, I really wanted SSS and Berlin Strings to have the same great legato as CSS.


----------



## tebling

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.



Really appreciate the time you took to record this!

Con Moto and Vista seem to have very similar tones, with the main difference being that Vista has more room presence.


----------



## mojamusic

Craig Sharmat said:


> The only time I don't like a library is when I can hear the possibilities and once I get the library I can't or have trouble pulling off what inspired me. I don't go looking for better, I look for for a sound that inspires me and that often is a better articulation or different than what I have. Many libraries have fallen by the wayside. There have been a few that have been clunkers but most of the time I hear good stuff from developers. I guess that is why I have over four thousand cues in my library (not necessarily four thousand great cues) besides my artist material.
> 
> Back on topic Vista is already getting play and it is embellishing my jazz arrangements quite nicely, almost sublimely.
> 
> Though not a Vista cue, the sweeting I did with it turned a somewhat thin sounding arrangement into a lusher one. Still a ruff mix but close...For anyone keeping score I am the guitarist slightly panned left, Neil Andersson slightly right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's All ruff.mp3
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Thats was wonderful... I didn't hear a "string library" I only heard music! Thank you for sharing


----------



## AEF

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> All those who are still on the fence. There are already quite a lot of audio demos and walkthroughs from Vista users, but let there be a little from me too.
> 
> This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.
> 
> Here they are:
> 1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
> 2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
> 3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
> 4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
> 5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
> 6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
> 7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
> 8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
> 9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core
> 10 - EastWest - Hollywood String(Mid+Close+Main+SRND)_Legacy
> 11 - Audio Ollie - Nashville Scoring Strings(close+decca+wide+surr.)
> 12 - Performance Samples - Vista




i love con moto. its become a favorite of mine, along with fluid shorts.


----------



## Secret Soundworks

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> All those who are still on the fence. There are already quite a lot of audio demos and walkthroughs from Vista users, but let there be a little from me too.
> 
> This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.
> 
> Here they are:
> 1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
> 2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
> 3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
> 4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
> 5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
> 6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
> 7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
> 8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
> 9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core
> 10 - EastWest - Hollywood String(Mid+Close+Main+SRND)_Legacy
> 11 - Audio Ollie - Nashville Scoring Strings(close+decca+wide+surr.)
> 12 - Performance Samples - Vista




Nice comparison, I really like the sound and tone of Con Moto, probably my favorite out of all of them.


----------



## ScarletJerry

@Vladimir Bulaev Thank you for doing this demo. You can quite a string collection! I have CS2, CSS, Soaring Strings, and 8Dio Anthology Strings, and I think that Vista will be my Christmas present this year. I will do a demo for everyone (after Christmas).

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## gussunkri

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> All those who are still on the fence. There are already quite a lot of audio demos and walkthroughs from Vista users, but let there be a little from me too.
> 
> This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.
> 
> Here they are:
> 1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
> 2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
> 3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
> 4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
> 5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
> 6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
> 7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
> 8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
> 9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core
> 10 - EastWest - Hollywood String(Mid+Close+Main+SRND)_Legacy
> 11 - Audio Ollie - Nashville Scoring Strings(close+decca+wide+surr.)
> 12 - Performance Samples - Vista



In this example Con moto is amazing!


----------



## Johnny

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> All those who are still on the fence. There are already quite a lot of audio demos and walkthroughs from Vista users, but let there be a little from me too.
> 
> This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.
> 
> Here they are:
> 1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
> 2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
> 3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
> 4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
> 5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
> 6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
> 7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
> 8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
> 9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core
> 10 - EastWest - Hollywood String(Mid+Close+Main+SRND)_Legacy
> 11 - Audio Ollie - Nashville Scoring Strings(close+decca+wide+surr.)
> 12 - Performance Samples - Vista



Hands down the best and most useful string shootout to date. Great work showing off the dynamic range and blend of sections! If you had the ability to add: Century, Adagio, and Agitato, LASS and a few others, I can see your Grammy nomination now, "most comprehensive and honest string comparison of existence" You even spent the time to make them all sparkle- regarless of which library you preferred the most. Excellent work!


----------



## tabulius

Ok, here is Vista with a full orchestra mix. I doubled Vista with Soaring Strings to make the sections a bit larger, but the main driver is still Vista. For Bass Pizz, and a tremolo part was Ark2. String runs were Hollywood Strings and Ark1 slurred shorts. You can hear the Vista's harp pretty well in this mix as well. I made a fake 2nd violins patch using Vista 5 violins, 3 violins FF and Soaring Strings with the transpose trick.

Brass and woodwinds were mostly Infinite, some Berlin Brass for doubling. Percussion is Cinesamples.

So this arrangement is a Finnish Christmas song "Sylvian joululaulu" (rough translation: Sylvia's Christmas Song). I'm not sure if this is familiar outside Finland or Europe, but nevertheless, this is a very beautiful composition - one of my favourite Christmas songs. So Merry Christmas you all! I hope you enjoy.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> All those who are still on the fence. There are already quite a lot of audio demos and walkthroughs from Vista users, but let there be a little from me too.
> 
> This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.
> 
> Here they are:
> 1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
> 2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
> 3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
> 4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
> 5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
> 6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
> 7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
> 8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
> 9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core
> 10 - EastWest - Hollywood String(Mid+Close+Main+SRND)_Legacy
> 11 - Audio Ollie - Nashville Scoring Strings(close+decca+wide+surr.)
> 12 - Performance Samples - Vista





Excellent work Vladimir ! Could i be cheeky and ask you to do a Youtube version, I don't know what it is but I take on information even better when there are visual cues - Sounds silly I know.

Don't worry if you can't , you have done a great thing already, and I was just hoping you might - And I could play along with the ones I have  

Thank you


----------



## vhudec

here is a Vista, no eq, reverb, comp, just how it sounds straight out of the box


----------



## Go To 11

tabulius said:


> Ok, here is Vista with a full orchestra mix. I doubled Vista with Soaring Strings to make the sections a bit larger, but the main driver is still Vista. For Bass Pizz, and a tremolo part was Ark2. String runs were Hollywood Strings and Ark1 slurred shorts. You can hear the Vista's harp pretty well in this mix as well. I made a fake 2nd violins patch using Vista 5 violins, 3 violins FF and Soaring Strings with the transpose trick.
> 
> Brass and woodwinds were mostly Infinite, some Berlin Brass for doubling. Percussion is Cinesamples.
> 
> So this arrangement is a Finnish Christmas song "Sylvian joululaulu" (rough translation: Sylvia's Christmas Song). I'm not sure if this is familiar outside Finland or Europe, but nevertheless, this is a very beautiful composition - one of my favourite Christmas songs. So Merry Christmas you all! I hope you enjoy.



This is just lovely! Thanks for sharing. So full of emotion and movement, a great piece and a great arrangement. I thought I'd heard every Christmas song by now, so it's nice to hear a new one too.


----------



## Batrawi

tabulius said:


> Ok, here is Vista with a full orchestra mix. I doubled Vista with Soaring Strings to make the sections a bit larger, but the main driver is still Vista. For Bass Pizz, and a tremolo part was Ark2. String runs were Hollywood Strings and Ark1 slurred shorts. You can hear the Vista's harp pretty well in this mix as well. I made a fake 2nd violins patch using Vista 5 violins, 3 violins FF and Soaring Strings with the transpose trick.
> 
> Brass and woodwinds were mostly Infinite, some Berlin Brass for doubling. Percussion is Cinesamples.
> 
> So this arrangement is a Finnish Christmas song "Sylvian joululaulu" (rough translation: Sylvia's Christmas Song). I'm not sure if this is familiar outside Finland or Europe, but nevertheless, this is a very beautiful composition - one of my favourite Christmas songs. So Merry Christmas you all! I hope you enjoy.



Great piece/mockup(?). Vista wasn't really the impressive part to me, but I liked the piece as a whole. I really admired whatever spatialization and/or reverb applied to make the pice sound so cohesive, so if you care sharing any info about that it would really be useful..


----------



## tabulius

Batrawi said:


> Great piece/mockup(?). Vista wasn't really the impressive part to me, but I liked the piece as a whole. I really admired whatever spatialization and/or reverb applied to make the pice sound so cohesive, so if you care sharing any info about that it would really be useful..



I did get the volume balance right I think, but I didn't do any special tricks other than a normal cleaning of the mix. I used more of the close mics in Vista and lowered the Decca around -6dB. In Infinite I used mic settings that had a nice small stage sound - not too large. Infinite's Bersa hall is perfect for my taste. Then I just had a master reverb from Seventh Heaven. No other sends or fancy stuff.

Thanks for taking a listen!


----------



## ScarletJerry

I purchased and downloaded Vista tonight, and while everything downloaded fine, the Coninuata program stalled when it was unpacking the RAR files. I expanded them manually, and I want to make sure that I got everything. Can another Mac user confirm that the library takes up (10.03 GB on disk) for 21,093 items? Thanks.


----------



## yiph2

Seems like it:


----------



## ScarletJerry

yiph2 said:


> Seems like it:


Thank you. The screenshot that you send says 10.08 total, and my library is 10.03 (on my Mac), is still feel that I COULD be missing something. By the way, the legatos in the string sound fabulous, perhaps the best that I've ever heard, and library is very playable.


----------



## ScarletJerry

ka00 said:


> Just bought it. Playing the violins. This is incredible. First impression is that I love this library. There's a great dynamic range control if you click the little B in the right bottom corner of the instrument. Very handy.


I do wish that Jasper included a short manual or documentation with this library to point out things like that.


----------



## Vik

ScarletJerry said:


> I do wish that Jasper included a short manual or documentation with this library to point out things like that.


My guess is that the B page in Vista is quite similar to this B page (Con Moto Violins A), which somehow doesn't need much of an explanation because the text on that page explains what the faders do. (Would still be nice to elaborate a little about in a manual, of course!).


----------



## ScarletJerry

Vik said:


> My guess is that the B page in Vista is quite similar to this B page (Con Moto Violins A), which somehow doesn't need much of an explanation but because the text on that page explains what the knows do. (Would still be nice to elaborate a little about in a manual, of course!).


I'm not really sure what these controls do. Ha ha! I guess that's why I wanted some basic documentation.


----------



## Vik

I see – maybe they'll add some info about it, but meanwhile:

Compress CC/Vel Dynamic Range reduces the dynamic range, which can be very useful. If you're working on a piece that doesn't need the most intense range, you can eg. set it to 66%, in which case moving your fader or modwheel all the way to the top will give you a a softer sound, since it will give you only two thirds of the total range – meaning that your controller will only use the two softest layers, not the third and most intense one. The reduced volume, as a result of this, can be compensated for by using the Makeup knob.

Compress High Register and Compress Low Register can be used if you want to alter the dynamic range more in the the upper (or lower) keyboard register; the higher or lower pitches. This is useful eg. if you think the dynamics control works the way you want it, except that the higher MIDI notes (or lower MIDI notes) are too intense.

Expand CC/Vel range does the opposite of Compress CC/Vel Range.


----------



## ScarletJerry

Vik said:


> I see – maybe they'll add some info about it, but meanwhile:
> 
> Compress CC/Vel Dynamic Range, reduces the dynamic range, which can be very useful. If you' working on a piece that doesn't need the most intense range, you can eg. set it to 66%, in which case moving you fader or modwheel all the way to the top will give you a a softer sound, since it will give you only two thirds of the total range, meaning that your controller will only use the two softest layers, not the whited and most intense one. The reduced volume, as a result of this, can be compensated for by using the Makeup knob.
> 
> The Compress High Register and Compress Low Register faders can be used if you want to alter the dynamic range more in the the the upper (or lower) keyboard register; the higher or lower pitches. This is useful eg, if you thing the dynamics control works the way you want it, except that the higher MIDI notes (or lower MIDI notes) are too intense.
> 
> Expand CC/Vel range does the opposite of Compress CC/Vel Range.


Thank you for this detailed explanation. That's exactly what I needed, and now I understand what these controls do. I really appreciate it.


----------



## Vik

Hi, I haven't checked that, but I just made a quick test and got a feeling that you are right. If it is, that's of course very useful also when you want to make sure that if you pull CC1 all the way down to the lowest value, you'll still hear some playing. Many demos etc. use a combination of CC1 and CC11 to control dynamics, and often, it sounds artificial to me: it sounds as when someone would automate volume in order to emulate strings played in the lowest dynamic range. But strings played at a very low level sound very different from strings played at a relatively low level combined with being faded down with a fader/CC11/CC7 or similar. 

Any kind of MIDI plugin or real-time operating transform object would let you get the result I originally thought I was getting: that only the lowest dynamic layers were used. In Logic that can be done by opening a Modifier in the MIDI FX slot, and I'm pretty sure Cubase has something similar. 

Both these methods of compressing or expanding the dynamic range can be useful of course … I actually wish all libraries had offered both.


----------



## novaburst

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> All those who are still on the fence. There are already quite a lot of audio demos and walkthroughs from Vista users, but let there be a little from me too.
> 
> This is a test of libraries with legato, which i did, now at the end i added "Vista" for comparison.
> 
> Here they are:
> 1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
> 2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
> 3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
> 4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
> 5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
> 6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
> 7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
> 8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
> 9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core
> 10 - EastWest - Hollywood String(Mid+Close+Main+SRND)_Legacy
> 11 - Audio Ollie - Nashville Scoring Strings(close+decca+wide+surr.)
> 12 - Performance Samples - Vista




Nice work,

This type of approach to string librarys makes it hard to choose but when the cellos started in the BS i think i would have chose that library

Not sure what to say about Vista only that PS live up to there reputation in kick ass legato but i think Con moto is right up there with them.

I think i would still have the same issue in wanting to choose another articulation from the same library but finding none, PS have made shorts not sure why they just pull the trigger and do a full library even if it is just a few more articulations 

I think the vista library is right close to users heart as is con moto


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Paul Jelfs said:


> Excellent work Vladimir ! Could i be cheeky and ask you to do a Youtube version, I don't know what it is but I take on information even better when there are visual cues - Sounds silly I know.
> 
> Don't worry if you can't , you have done a great thing already, and I was just hoping you might - And I could play along with the ones I have
> 
> Thank you


I dug up the time to create a YouTube version. Enjoy. I also plan to continue a series of comparisons between libraries. In my spare time. Thanks.


----------



## bvaughn0402

This is a great video ...

My honest thoughts after listening to this ... I should quit buying libraries and just WRITE music. The "holy grail" of the definitive string library seems more of an urban legend with this shootout.


----------



## Oliver

bvaughn0402 said:


> This is a great video ...
> 
> My honest thoughts after listening to this ... I should quit buying libraries and just WRITE music. The "holy grail" of the definitive string library seems more of an urban legend with this shootout.


 ++++11111


----------



## AudioLoco

OK, just had a first play with it.
I am so happy, it is stunning and inspiring.
Already writing something, gotta go!


----------



## jules

The overall tone of this library is somptuous. Even if i know the writing plays a big part, the demos are astonishing.


----------



## Svyato

Hello everyone,
Could someone explain me how to best use the 3violins overlay patch please? I don't get the difference with the 5violins patch (except the number of violins x)) Many thanks


----------



## chapbot

Svyato said:


> Hello everyone,
> Could someone explain me how to best use the 3violins overlay patch please? I don't get the difference with the 5violins patch (except the number of violins x)) Many thanks


I believe they are just one layer that is FF (very loud, big vibrato) so you'd layer them for a soaring string line, that sort of thing, to give more punch.


----------



## ScarletJerry

chapbot said:


> I believe they are just one layer that is FF (very loud, big vibrato) so you'd layer them for a soaring string line, that sort of thing, to give more punch.


I would also say that the 3violins overlay has a more pronounced legato, adding a soaring quality when used with the regular violin patch. That really gives this library that "special sauce."

By the way, I also used an EQ trick to simulate sordinos that @Syneast shared two years ago for Cinematic Strings 2. I He suggested adjusting the EQ in Kontakt with the following settings:

Freq 2.2 kHz
Bandwidth 0.8
Gain -6 dB

It also seems to work well for this library (pretty convincing for the violins and violas, as well as the full strings sustain patch, although not as good on the basses patch).

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Svyato

Hello, which string spiccato library would fit the most with Vista according to you?


----------



## holywilly

I’m interested in getting Vista, does anyone know any tips or tricks to write for 2nd violins?


----------



## nas

Svyato said:


> Hello, which string spiccato library would fit the most with Vista according to you?



Check out Fluid Shorts I & II also by Performance Samples. Also CSS looks like the shorts might also blend well.


----------



## Casiquire

I've heard good things about the shorts with CSS but the room tones sound so different to my ears! With the right reverb that might be the best bet


----------



## jules

Lightandsoundsamples Chamber Strings have a beautiful woody tone that should fit, and loads of different mic options.


----------



## Hendrixon

I bought FSII... prefer CSS shorts.
FSII are very tight and chopped, will probably work fine in a high paced trailer.
CSS shorts sound more organic, like mere mortals are playing.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Hendrixon said:


> I bought FSII... prefer CSS shorts.
> FSII are very tight and chopped, will probably work fine in a high paced trailer.
> CSS shorts sound more organic, like mere mortals are playing.


I used to love the CSS shorts ( I still do ), and I use them when layering, but when I compared them to other string shorts, I just felt they were so small and weak. I think Fluid Shorts 1 could go pretty well with Vista. Here's an example of layered shorts (Fluid Shorts 1 being the prominent layer in tone), and then CSS alone. There's just something off about them when CSS is exposed on its own.


----------



## Henu

Three times I was _almost_ buying this when I listened to the demos and what people had posted here. Once I already had it in my shopping cart! Fourth time....I couldn't resist anymore. Downloading now.


----------



## artomatic

I'm wondering how many Con Moto owners here bought Vista?


----------



## tebling

artomatic said:


> I'm wondering how many Con Moto owners here bought Vista?


As a Con Moto owner I'm still on the skeptical side of the fence. I love CM, and find it blends well with other libs (Afflatus in particular). Side by side, the biggest difference I hear with Vista is the room sound - the tone is very similar. Even with the CM loyalty discount, I'm not seeing the value proposition in Vista as I can get pretty close to "that sound" already.


----------



## Vik

artomatic said:


> I'm wondering how many Con Moto owners here bought Vista?


I'm seriously considering buying it, since it has one more dynamic layer, because I don't have the bass and viola from Con Moto and because of the three note FFF overlay patch. 4 dyn. layers instead of 3 sometimes makes a lot of difference. Some time, they'll probably all have 5.


----------



## Casiquire

I'm curious if someone with Con Moto would be willing to mock up that same demo from earlier in this thread using the library. I imagine the difference would actually be rather significant


----------



## Vik

Casiquire said:


> I'm curious if someone with Con Moto would be willing to mock up that same demo from earlier in this thread using the library. I imagine the difference would actually be rather significant


The likelihood of someone doing that will probably increase if you link to that post.


----------



## Casiquire

Vik said:


> The likelihood of someone doing that will probably increase if you link to that post.


It's come up about a hundred times here with different midi files and transcriptions haha otherwise i certainly would have


----------



## lucor

Finally bought Vista today, and as of right now spent over 10 hours to download a whopping 5gb(!). With my internet speed the whole library should be downloaded in less than 25 minutes, but as of now I have another 10 hours of waiting time before me...

Seriously though, when will Continuata finally get their shit together? I've only been having problems with them for the many, many years I have used their service (and I'm definitely not alone judging from the forum). Still, no improvements in sight whatsoever. Maybe they just don't care because they don't have a real competitor?!
Anyway, sorry about the rant, back to Vista.  

Hoping Continuata will have mercy, so that I get to play with it tomorrow.


----------



## Hendrixon

lucor said:


> Finally bought Vista today, and as of right now spent over 10 hours to download a whopping 5gb(!). With my internet speed the whole library should be downloaded in less than 25 minutes, but as of now I have another 10 hours of waiting time before me...
> 
> Seriously though, when will Continuata finally get their shit together? I've only been having problems with them for the many, many years I have used their service (and I'm definitely not alone judging from the forum). Still, no improvements in sight whatsoever. Maybe they just don't care because they don't have a real competitor?!
> Anyway, sorry about the rant, back to Vista.
> 
> Hoping Continuata will have mercy, so that I get to play with it tomorrow.


Wow! someone with a worse internet connection then me!
Thanks for making me feel better  


Edit:
Yea I hope you'll like Vista lol


----------



## redlite

Found this beautiful piece comparing Vista and CSS. Both sound lovely in my opinion...


----------



## lettucehat

Maybe the panning differences contributed a tad, but this one was like JGR's demo - the jump to Vista instantly creates the illusion of being in a room with players. Hard to describe... it's even before a single legato transition takes place. And CSS sounded amazing!


----------



## pawelmorytko

Saw that one the other day, and my thoughts were that I preferred the tone of Vista, but also preferred CSS's legato...


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

redlite said:


> Found this beautiful piece comparing Vista and CSS. Both sound lovely in my opinion...



Vista reminds me of the Godfather soundtrack here


----------



## AndyP

redlite said:


> Found this beautiful piece comparing Vista and CSS. Both sound lovely in my opinion...



Vista sounds amazing, more natural, to me. Great track.


----------



## VivianaSings

redlite said:


> Found this beautiful piece comparing Vista and CSS. Both sound lovely in my opinion...



Vista's got great tone but that sucking on each note drives me crazy. I'd have to go with CSS on this video.


----------



## David Kudell

VivianaSings said:


> Vista's got great tone but that sucking on each note drives me crazy. I'd have to go with CSS on this video.


Yeah, the first part of the piece Vista kind of struggles with the melody because of that. You kind of lose the melody on the lower parts compared to CSS. Once you get into the higher violin parts, Vista really sounds wonderful.

Been on the fence with Vista, I have so many string libraries already! I mean, didn't we all just buy Afflatus? And Berlin Symphonic? Now Vista. It's a bit niche...it sounds a bit "old fashioned" for lack of a better word...like scores from old black and white movies. CSS is more "modern" sounding to me. Not that I don't LOVE that sound, but I don't think it's right for everything. But damn it does sound good.


----------



## Casiquire

David Kudell said:


> I mean, didn't we all just buy Afflatus? And Berlin Symphonic? Now Vista.


Wait, you all buy every single library that comes out? Please tell me those aren't the rules 😂


----------



## Casiquire

redlite said:


> Found this beautiful piece comparing Vista and CSS. Both sound lovely in my opinion...



Wow, CSS by a mile. Less noisy, smoother legato and note attacks, and Vista sounds boomy in the lower registers where CSS sounds natural and more well balanced.

Which is saying a lot given that more than one of those points is considered a weakness of CSS


----------



## David Kudell

Casiquire said:


> Wait, you all buy every single library that comes out? Please tell me those aren't the rules 😂


Of course those are the rules here at VI-control! Where we try to write at least one track for every 5 libraries purchased.


----------



## Kirk1701

David Kudell said:


> Been on the fence with Vista, I have so many string libraries already! I mean, didn't we all just buy Afflatus? And Berlin Symphonic? Now Vista. It's a bit niche...it sounds a bit "old fashioned" for lack of a better word...like scores from old black and white movies.


Why would you say that?! You've just described my perfect strings!! 

I'll be honest, I really like what I've heard of these strings, but I'm not sure they're so different to Agitato's Mancini articulations.


----------



## Toecutter

Kirk1701 said:


> I'm not sure they're so different to Agitato's Mancini articulations.


Adagio is one of my top 3 strings libraries, still use it all the time and I agree Mancini patches sound amazing for the time. They are like an "old school Vista" but PS' take on soaring strings is done on a higher level in my opinion. And that's coming from one of Vista's harshest critics. 8dio improved a lot recently with the programming but their old libraries are horribly edited and scripted.


----------



## I like music

redlite said:


> Found this beautiful piece comparing Vista and CSS. Both sound lovely in my opinion...



Must say I do like the high violins of Vista. Seem more alive than most violins I hear doing lead lines in those mid-high registers.


----------



## Hendrixon

David Kudell said:


> we try to write at least one track for every 5 libraries purchased.


Please tell me those aren't the rules...


----------



## lettucehat

Big fan of Agitato and 8dio strings here. They were and are great, but more cumbersome than you can imagine. Additionally, the way they were recorded leaves (to my ears) somewhat harsh individual players sticking out in the close mics. And the far mix is too far. If you are literally going for a Mancini sound or can afford to tuck the strings into a larger mix (narrow the image, use more of the far mics) then it's not an issue. And if you have lots of time, you can experiment with the various attacks to get a more nimble performance. Vista seems to aim for one consistent level of playability and responsiveness, and also a more balanced out of the box sound compared to Agitato. More conventional miking, it seems.


----------



## Kevinside

hmm css has a strange hiss noise, vista doesn´t...
But css sounds better...except the violins...


----------



## Kirk1701

Toecutter said:


> Adagio is one of my top 3 strings libraries, still use it all the time and I agree Mancini patches sound amazing for the time. They are like an "old school Vista" but PS' take on soaring strings is done on a higher level in my opinion. And that's coming from one of Vista's harshest critics. 8dio improved a lot recently with the programming but their old libraries are horribly edited and scripted.


I dunno, man, this sounds like cork-sniffing to me. I've only used the try pack, but I will say the legatos sound smoother in Vista. I do hear a choppiness in Agitato that Vista doesn't have. That said, the differences aren't as glaring as one would hope.


----------



## Kevinside

8dio...


----------



## Toecutter

Kevinside said:


> 8dio...


Did you have a stroke in the middle of posting this? 

Yep 8Dio is awesome. Some duds in the past but great people great libraries!


----------



## Kevinside

8dio is hmm 8dio nothing more...


----------



## muziksculp

Oh... and if you add the word : *Adagio * you get something very special


----------



## muziksculp

I have CSS, which has wonderful, smooth legatos, I'm wondering why would I need to get VISTA which is mainly a Legato centered library ? Does it sound better, or have some functionality that CSS lacks ?


----------



## Beans

muziksculp said:


> I have CSS, which has wonderful, smooth legatos, I'm wondering why would I need to get VISTA which is mainly a Legato centered library ? Does it sound better, or have some functionality that CSS lacks ?


Check out Chris Siu's video. It may help.


----------



## muziksculp

Beans said:


> Check out Chris Siu's video. It may help.



I did, both libraries sound great, and are quite similar sonically. That's why I don't feel I need VISTA given I have CSS.


----------



## Kevinside

As con moto user, should i get vista?
For me the recordings of vista are sounding so much better than the dark tone of css including that awful hiss noise in the high frequencies...

But i don´t know, if i need vista, when i have con moto...


----------



## jononotbono

VivianaSings said:


> Vista's got great tone but that sucking on each note drives me crazy. I'd have to go with CSS on this video.


It’s really important to get the attack settings correct. There’s an option to set the attack from hard (value 1) to soft (value 127) and you can also blend in between both settings. I’m no expert but I had a hard time with this until I tweaked these settings to suit!


----------



## VivianaSings

jononotbono said:


> It’s really important to get the attack settings correct. There’s an option to set the attack from hard (value 1) to soft (value 127) and you can also blend in between both settings. I’m no expert but I had a hard time with this until I tweaked these settings to suit!



That's actually kind of interesting. It'd be cool if they noted things like those features if they actually make a noticable change to the sound.


----------



## AndyP

I just regret not taking Vista at the introductory price, especially since I would have gotten a decent discount as a Con Moto Collection owner.
There will certainly be sales again and I also hope for a price effect when Voyage comes.

For me it's definitely the timbre that make them so damn desirable.


----------



## Batrawi

AndyP said:


> I just regret not taking Vista at the introductory price, especially since I would have gotten a decent discount as a Con Moto Collection owner.
> There will certainly be sales again and I also hope for a price effect when Voyage comes.
> 
> For me it's definitely the timbre that make them so damn desirable.


I wonder if the price can go even lower than the intro price during some other crazy sales like BF, Christmas etc..? Any PS followers/fanboys are aware if that's possible based on PS previous sales trends? Coz in all honest, Vista would still be "just another color in palette" shall I decide to buy it one day.. which -for me- still doesn't justify the intro price.


----------



## AudioLoco

Batrawi said:


> I wonder if the price can go even lower than the intro price during some other crazy sales like BF, Christmas etc..? Any PS followers/fanboys are aware if that's possible based on PS previous sales trends? Coz in all honest, Vista would still be "just another color in palette" shall I decide to buy it one day.. which -for me- still doesn't justify the intro price.


This is a top notch ground-breaking product. It is worth that amount and more.

I don't think it will be discounted until BF, it's a new product.
I got the it at the introductory price after hearing the demos, as I felt it was made for me right away.


----------



## Soundbed

Kevinside said:


> As con moto user, should i get vista?
> For me the recordings of vista are sounding so much better than the dark tone of css including that awful hiss noise in the high frequencies...
> 
> But i don´t know, if i need vista, when i have con moto...


I don't think you got an answer.

I know the section sizes are different, but ... we know Con Moto is a bow change legato transition whereas Vista is a slurred legato transition.

Other than that, what else is different about the two libraries?

Is the tone much different from section to section?

Or, are they so "close" (at least to the average listener) that you could use them in the same movement of the same piece simply to exercise different legato techniques?

If they sound different – other than the legato bow changes – how might one characterize the difference(s)?

Are the release samples and note attacks similar?

Is one more "agile" sounding than the other?


----------



## GingerMaestro

Hi guys, I screwed up and missed the intro pricing and now think I need to get it for a project..

I have a couple of quick questions if someone wouldn’t mind answering..or demos would be even better..

How pronounced is the same note rebow ? (I certainly want to be able to hear it distinctly

how well does the library handle fast/fastish runs..

thanks so much, I’ll continue trawling through this very long thread as well !


----------



## CliveC

Soundbed said:


> I don't think you got an answer.
> 
> I know the section sizes are different, but ... we know Con Moto is a bow change legato transition whereas Vista is a slurred legato transition.
> 
> Other than that, what else is different about the two libraries?
> 
> Is the tone much different from section to section?
> 
> Or, are they so "close" (at least to the average listener) that you could use them in the same movement of the same piece simply to exercise different legato techniques?
> 
> If they sound different – other than the legato bow changes – how might one characterize the difference(s)?
> 
> Are the release samples and note attacks similar?
> 
> Is one more "agile" sounding than the other?


One of the biggest difference (at least to me) between them is that they're recorded in different halls. To my ears, CM is slightly brighter and more defined, Vista is woodier and slightly thicker. The beauty is in layering the two together which is where the smaller number of players becomes really useful. The buttery sound of Vista gives you the backbone body while the definition of CM gives you the clarity on top. CM attack is different too so quieter passages are more for Vista imho.

I've also layered Vista with Spitfire Studio Strings (for broader sound) and 8dio Adagio (for more edgy defined and lyrical) and got some lovely results with careful balancing. If you don't want to layer them in one patch but mix the two as separate articulations, you'll need to brighten the tone of Vista slightly to match CM, or darken CM.

In general, CM leans more towards the spritely and bold, Vista is more sweeping and luscious, both with Jasper's trademark mastery of legato.


----------



## Soundbed

CliveC said:


> One of the biggest difference (at least to me) between them is that they're recorded in different halls. To my ears, CM is slightly brighter and more defined, Vista is woodier and slightly thicker. The beauty is in layering the two together which is where the smaller number of players becomes really useful. The buttery sound of Vista gives you the backbone body while the definition of CM gives you the clarity on top. CM attack is different too so quieter passages are more for Vista imho.
> 
> I've also layered Vista with Spitfire Studio Strings (for broader sound) and 8dio Adagio (for more edgy defined and lyrical) and got some lovely results with careful balancing. If you don't want to layer them in one patch but mix the two as separate articulations, you'll need to brighten the tone of Vista slightly to match CM, or darken CM.
> 
> In general, CM leans more towards the spritely and bold, Vista is more sweeping and luscious, both with Jasper's trademark mastery of legato.


So so helpful! Thank you!


----------



## Peter Hirdes

VivianaSings said:


> That's actually kind of interesting. It'd be cool if they noted things like those features if they actually make a noticable change to the sound.


That’s right. Setting the attack value higher so that it’s not triggered almost each time You hit the key makes a big difference in playing and tone. I personally set it to 100 so that You can conciously play the harder attacks by higher pressure on the key.


----------



## Nyran

Best purchase I ever made! I orchestrate different kinds of music and the close mic on Vista is very versatile. (Also love CM and use them together and separately but I wouldn’t have bought Violins A again since I like them less than Violins B and they were expensive).


----------



## muziksculp

By the way, VISTA is still available at the discounted price of $249. today, with the help of some extra GAS, I decided to get it.


----------



## I like music

$179...!!!

So now that some time has passed, what would users say about this library at $179, to those of us who don't own it?


----------



## Casiquire

I like music said:


> $179...!!!
> 
> So now that some time has passed, what would users say about this library at $179, to those of us who don't own it?


We're finally at a price where i think it's a deal. I'm likely to pick it up. If you haven't tried the free demo already, I'd say try it out!


----------



## Russell Anderson

If I buy Vista, will that get me a loyalty discount on Voyage after its introductory sale is over? In other words, do loyalty discounts persist?


----------



## coprhead6

Just tried the demo with SCS and SSS. Blends quite well and adds some oomph !


----------



## Drundfunk

Yes! Finally at a good price! Since I'm going to skip Pacific due to it's price, this is a good way to get nice legato strings.


----------



## dzilizzi

Well, shoot. I'm waiting on TSS and Sonokinetic's strings and then this comes up. And this will get the loyalty pricing on Pacific. Though I do have Con Moto, so it looks like I qualified anyway. Oh, well, bought it.

Actually, the pricing on Pacific looks fairly reasonable, comparable to Spitfire and OT. Less articulations, but the legato should be better? No Staccatos. Isn't that a complaint with most string libraries? The Loyalty price is pretty much half off, so probably won't get a better deal for at least a year or longer. Hmm. I will have to think about it. 

How many string libraries do I need again?


----------



## I like music

Casiquire said:


> We're finally at a price where i think it's a deal. I'm likely to pick it up. If you haven't tried the free demo already, I'd say try it out!


Shit, didn't know there was a free demo! Likely to pick it up, then.

Wait, didn't you and I discuss, only two days ago, that HWS, CSS and SM Strings was plenty for me? I think Vista could add something quite nice on top of CSS ... you've convinced me!


----------



## Casiquire

I like music said:


> Shit, didn't know there was a free demo! Likely to pick it up, then.
> 
> Wait, didn't you and I discuss, only two days ago, that HWS, CSS and SM Strings was plenty for me? I think Vista could add something quite nice on top of CSS ... you've convinced me!


It is plenty indeed! But strings can be articulated in so, so many ways... Once your basics are well covered, like yours are, there's some benefit to adding more colors. But you could get by just fine without it


----------



## I like music

Casiquire said:


> It is plenty indeed! But strings can be articulated in so, so many ways... Once your basics are well covered, like yours are, there's some benefit to adding more colors. But you could get by just fine without it


Stop twisting my arm! But if you must insist, I'll go buy them right now. I didn't want to, but I'll tell my wife Casiquire made me do it.

PS on a serious note, I think they could add a certain zing to that palette, and are right up my alley for the kind of music I like to write.


----------



## Futchibon

Russell Anderson said:


> If I buy Vista, will that get me a loyalty discount on Voyage after its introductory sale is over? In other words, do loyalty discounts persist?


Not for Pacific - the loyalty discount is only during the intro offer period. THere doesn't seem to be any info about Yoyage yet in that respect.


----------



## chapbot

My favorite part of Vista is the three violin FFF overlay patch ♥️


----------



## Casiquire

I like music said:


> Stop twisting my arm! But if you must insist, I'll go buy them right now. I didn't want to, but I'll tell my wife Casiquire made me do it.
> 
> PS on a serious note, I think they could add a certain zing to that palette, and are right up my alley for the kind of music I like to write.


I try to be honest, and tone-wise, i totally think you can get away with CSS shorts+Vista legatos, so it can fit into what you have. With a bit of tweaking involved. 

At this point i think i hurt more than i help lol


----------



## novaburst

Pacific details are sounding great, up to 14 dynamic layer, thats a slam donk,

sections sold individually Slam slam slam slam donk to grab a library a piece at a time is so so helpful.

This is modern thinking, every one can get a taste 

No black Friday sale, hmmmm not sure if any one would mind that

The whole purchase package is sounding very good and enticing


----------



## Futchibon

novaburst said:


> Pacific details are sounding great, up to 14 dynamic layer, thats a slam donk


Do you mean 'slam dunk'? 'Donk' is Aussie slang for 'penis'!



novaburst said:


> Slam slam slam slam donk





novaburst said:


> every one can get a taste


----------



## Russell Anderson

Futchibon said:


> Not for Pacific - the loyalty discount is only during the intro offer period. THere doesn't seem to be any info about Yoyage yet in that respect.


God, is this how it’s been with Vista as well? I appreciate your input, and of course I hope you’re wrong, but those who’ve used PS libraries in the past know more than me. At least, because I plan on buying NSS and Vista to flesh out my strings from just SCS- / AROOF-only, I will be really solidly covered for a long time to come. Even if I don’t get Voyage for a few years. Right now, the priority is new computer and Strezov choirs / CSB/W.

This was my greatest fear though haha, a 50% off sale on to my ears the most incredible string library, but to console myself again, the other libraries I’ll be using will not leave me feeling just disappointed. Hyped for all who are getting on board the Pacific/Voyage train though!


----------



## zwhita

Casiquire said:


> I totally think you can get away with CSS shorts+Vista legatos, so it can fit into what you have. With a bit of tweaking involved.


What I'm getting so far from above is $180 for a library that cannot perform any function other than supplemental enhancement to other not that much more expensive(during BF) and much more complete libraries.

If something like Afflatus is many string libraries in one for 4-5 times the cost of Vista, I still can't see it being worth the current sale price. How is it worth $30 more than a complete competing product like L&S Chamber Strings?


----------



## Russell Anderson

zwhita said:


> What I'm getting so far from above is $180 for a library that cannot perform any function other than supplemental enhancement to other not that much more expensive(during BF) and much more complete libraries.
> 
> If something like Afflatus is many string libraries in one for 4-5 times the cost of Vista, I still can't see it being worth the current sale price. How is it worth $30 more than a complete competing product like L&S Chamber Strings?


Legatos. Maybe some Jasper hype, but man, they sound amazing. If you’re already a CSS user, though, it’s a lot easier to pass up. CSS and Vista play a lot differently than e.g. SCS, so for someone like
me it’s a pretty easy decision.


----------



## zwhita

So if I don't own either Spitfire Chamber or Cinematic Studio, and am aligned with the sound character and notorious Performance Samples playability, I have to decide between this and L&S in the next month.

This is abruptly turning into a rather cruel hobby.


----------



## Casiquire

zwhita said:


> What I'm getting so far from above is $180 for a library that cannot perform any function other than supplemental enhancement to other not that much more expensive(during BF) and much more complete libraries.
> 
> If something like Afflatus is many string libraries in one for 4-5 times the cost of Vista, I still can't see it being worth the current sale price. How is it worth $30 more than a complete competing product like L&S Chamber Strings?


Sure, but the tone and performance are entirely unique, so it's a question of whether they're worth having. Overall i agree with you, but 179 is below my bar


----------



## Getsumen

zwhita said:


> What I'm getting so far from above is $180 for a library that cannot perform any function other than supplemental enhancement to other not that much more expensive(during BF) and much more complete libraries.
> 
> If something like Afflatus is many string libraries in one for 4-5 times the cost of Vista, I still can't see it being worth the current sale price. How is it worth $30 more than a complete competing product like L&S Chamber Strings?


I'm someone who is inclined to agree. I'm pretty amazed that people purchased Vista for the original price, but even with this reduced price which makes it much much more palatable, it still seems to be on the fringe pricing of being buyable. It certainly sounds great, but legato only for a certain type of music makes it quite boutique and niche. 

Voyage does seem like it'll be much better priced, however. I believe it has multiple legato types? (I believe Jasper said he was including some of the old samples that he re-recorded, which I assume means multiple legatos) + other artics for a price I assume is similar to Pacific in the ~1000$ -500$ price range. Compare that to Vista which was originally 340-200$


----------



## Futchibon

zwhita said:


> What I'm getting so far from above is $180 for a library that cannot perform any function other than supplemental enhancement to other not that much more expensive(during BF) and much more complete libraries.
> 
> If something like Afflatus is many string libraries in one for 4-5 times the cost of Vista, I still can't see it being worth the current sale price. How is it worth $30 more than a complete competing product like L&S Chamber Strings?


You must be a purist


----------



## lettucehat

The way it seems to work is that, yes, the loyalty offer only exists during the intro period, but if you wait a year or so it could go on sale for the same price or less. That's the case with Vista now. I'm glad I grabbed it right away with the Con Moto loyalty/intro discount (200, right?) but it's cheaper than that now.

And I think it's been discussed to death, but the "legato only" description is an oversimplification. It's a specialized tool and it's not going to look like a bargain next to CSS, but it's very special.


----------



## lettucehat

Getsumen said:


> Voyage does seem like it'll be much better priced, however. I believe it has multiple legato types? (I believe Jasper said he was including some of the old samples that he re-recorded, which I assume means multiple legatos) + other artics for a price I assume is similar to Pacific in the ~1000$ -500$ price range. Compare that to Vista which was originally 340-200$


It's apparently going to be a lot more expensive than Pacific (to go with the amount of content) so I wouldn't get my hopes up in that regard.


----------



## Futchibon

Russell Anderson said:


> Hyped for all who are getting on board the Pacific/Voyage train though!


I think it's 'setting sail' ⛵⛵⛵


----------



## Getsumen

lettucehat said:


> It's apparently going to be a lot more expensive than Pacific (to go with the amount of content) so I wouldn't get my hopes up in that regard.


Oh damn. Makes sense I suppose.


----------



## Russell Anderson

zwhita said:


> This is abruptly turning into a rather cruel hobby.


Yes, there are loads of temptations and even painfully tough decisions, I’ve been finding that out for a short while now, too.

The good news is that with some (maybe a lot  of) research, you can land on one or maybe two-three libraries that will do everything or just about that you’re actually needing. There is quite a bit of myopia or distortion in our sense of need for some of these libraries often based on their demos and our lack of knowledge about how to get certain sounds out of what we already use, or what kind of difference it makes in the complete mix. SCS alone gets me almost everything I need, I am not sure what you use presently but you do not need 6 string libraries to write an impeccably-performed, piece of music with sample libraries.


----------



## Futchibon

zwhita said:


> I am, admittedly completely green and am frankly at this point, a poor musician. Getting to the point as of very recently where sales prices and marketing are finally starting to roll off the back, and I really need to spend a year or two with the 232 libraries I have to make better purchasing decisions.
> 
> But I asked in this thread because I've continued to be puzzled by the acceptance of Performance Samples' asking prices and marketing strategy. If it really is just quality product, I can only hope it will still be around in 4 years time at much deeper discount, unlike a few that got the axe, like Con Moto.


It was refering to the Performance Samples tagline 'Not for purists' 

Daniel James described Vista as having 'the X factor' and I completely agree. I don't see it as a supplemental library, rather the star of the show which just shines. It sounds real and can make me feel like I'm listening to a real performance rather than samples. And PS products are programmed so well they're a joy to play.

$179 is a bargain!


----------



## Hendrixon

Futchibon said:


> $179 is a bargain!


----------



## Hendrixon

dzilizzi said:


> How many string libraries do I need again?


Well obviously more then you have right now...


----------



## Bear Market

Hendrixon said:


> Well obviously more then you have right now...


It is a simple equation, really.

N+1

Where N is the number of string libraries you currently own.


----------



## Futchibon

Hendrixon said:


>


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

I like music said:


> $179...!!!
> 
> So now that some time has passed, what would users say about this library at $179, to those of us who don't own it?


I've been a Vista user since day 1 and I've been extremely pleased! It's a great library! There's really not a library quite like it, IMO.


----------



## chapbot

NathanTiemeyer said:


> I've been a Vista user since day 1 and I've been extremely pleased! It's a great library! There's really not a library quite like it, IMO.


Shhhh! You might wake up the midwits who myopically only look at price and don't consider that real composers look at tone.


----------



## I like music

NathanTiemeyer said:


> I've been a Vista user since day 1 and I've been extremely pleased! It's a great library! There's really not a library quite like it, IMO.


Likely I won't be able to resist. Good to hear!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I'd buy vista if i didn't just throw £270 on Synchron pro. Damn.


----------



## dzilizzi

Russell Anderson said:


> Yes, there are loads of temptations and even painfully tough decisions, I’ve been finding that out for a short while now, too.
> 
> The good news is that with some (maybe a lot  of) research, you can land on one or maybe two-three libraries that will do everything or just about that you’re actually needing. There is quite a bit of myopia or distortion in our sense of need for some of these libraries often based on their demos and our lack of knowledge about how to get certain sounds out of what we already use, or what kind of difference it makes in the complete mix. SCS alone gets me almost everything I need, I am not sure what you use presently but you do not need 6 string libraries to write an impeccably-performed, piece of music with sample libraries.


Nooooooo!!!! This is blasphemy! We may have to kick you off the Sample Talk Island for statements like that!


----------



## Futchibon

Hendrixon said:


> Well obviously more then you have right now...


----------



## Argy Ottas

Futchibon said:


> It was refering to the Performance Samples tagline 'Not for purists'
> 
> Daniel James described Vista as having 'the X factor' and I completely agree. I don't see it as a supplemental library, rather the star of the show which just shines. It sounds real and can make me feel like I'm listening to a real performance rather than samples. And PS products are programmed so well they're a joy to play.
> 
> $179 is a bargain!


I described Vista better earlier this day in a well known Facebook group... 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

You guys think there's a chance Vista could go the way of Con Moto and be discontinued? Any word on that?


----------



## Russell Anderson

Vista is well-loved, but Voyage I can only imagine will be the “complete” version, and esp. if “Vista patches” are preserved in it given Jasper’s mention of “just adding what he likes/using techniques that have worked in the past”, just look at Con Moto which was well-loved. Frankly I’m sad I couldn’t do the sunset-sale for Con Moto for $99, as it did sound amazing and blending the two would be fantastic.

For now my plan is to layer NSS as the “Con Moto” with Vista, and have SCS just.... also hanging around for when it’s needed or visa versa. I’ll have to play with the mics and processing to see if I can get them situated effectively or not since I am going to need to be layering each of them sometimes.

If anyone has SCS Professional and has any considerations about how the extra mics impact the ability to blend each of these libraries, I’d love to hear it. Until then, once I get my hands on NSS+Vista I’ll see what I can do with the C/T/A.


----------



## AMBi

Hmmm I'm crossing my fingers that it progressively gets cheaper throughout the years.
$180 is super tempting since I'd love it as a CSS companion just wish it did a *little more* so I don't think I'll bite this sale.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Russell Anderson said:


> Vista is well-loved, but Voyage I can only imagine will be the “complete” version, and esp. if “Vista patches” are preserved in it given Jasper’s mention of “just adding what he likes/using techniques that have worked in the past”


I wonder if he meant keeping the teckniques or the patchs themselves. Anyway, he'd be crazy to scrap what sounds like the best legato strings on the market.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

AMBi said:


> Hmmm I'm crossing my fingers that it progressively gets cheaper throughout the years.
> $180 is super tempting since I'd love it as a CSS companion just wish it did a *little more* so I don't think I'll bite this sale.


Seems we have the same dilemma here. The thing is I'd rather get CSS and CSSS 1st. And add Vista later if necessary. I was listening to Vista vs CSS videos and CSS really isn't far behind. Then i thought if CSS is close, maybe layering with CSSS might just be enough to raise CSS to the same level as Vista. Sort of i guess. I mean i don't expect it to sounds the same and there's nothing like Vista right now imo, but it might be enough for me.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

AMBi said:


> Hmmm I'm crossing my fingers that it progressively gets cheaper throughout the years.
> $180 is super tempting since I'd love it as a CSS companion just wish it did a *little more* so I don't think I'll bite this sale.


I forgot to say that I'd be surprised if Vista would go down in price even more. I got Oceania for the same price last hear at the same end of hear mega sale. So if that's any indication?...


----------



## AMBi

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Seems we have the same dilemma here. The thing is I'd rather get CSS and CSSS 1st. And add Vista later if necessary. I was listening to Vista vs CSS videos and CSS really isn't far behind. Then i thought if CSS is close, maybe layering with CSSS might just be enough to raise CSS to the same level as Vista. Sort of i guess. I mean i don't expect it to sounds the same and there's nothing like Vista right now imo, but it might be enough for me.


CSSS + CSS are my current favorite string libraries so you can't go wrong there.
The demo "Falling Leaves" on the CSSS page gives a great example of how great they both sound blended, though like you said there's nothing like Vista no matter the blend.

Vista's more hyped up sound and more agile nature have a stunning beauty to them that I definitely wanna add in my arsenal but I don't feel *too* urged right now since Performance Samples does multiple sales per year.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

AMBi said:


> CSSS + CSS are my current favorite string libraries so you can't go wrong there.
> The demo "Falling Leaves" on the CSSS page gives a great example of how great they both sound blended, though like you said there's nothing like Vista no matter the blend.
> 
> Vista's more hyped up sound and more agile nature have a stunning beauty to them that I definitely wanna add in my arsenal but I don't feel *too* urged right now since Performance Samples does multiple sales per year.


I'll go and listen to it. But i know it does thicken CSS cause i heard it before. In fact I'd say adding CSSS to CSS is a must imo. Plus it's a great lib on it's own as you know. Thanks.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s discontinued. No idea why Jasper does this though. It’s a bit weird to put sample libraries on the market and then discontinuing them even though there are customers who’d probably still buy those libraries.


Well you could argue that it made sense to scrap Con Moto after Vista was release cause it was superior imo and maybe he felt the same way? But discontinuing Vista would be really weird at this point.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Well you could argue that it made sense to scrap Con Moto after Vista was release cause it was superior imo and maybe he felt the same way? But discontinuing Vista would be really weird at this point.


Well, it wasn’t really superior.
I would say more likeable generally (what’s not to like about trembling-lower-lip-legato), but the fact that Con Moto was detache/bow change focused and Vista fingered/slurred-focused means they are different sides of the same coin. An earlier post combining the two and remarking on how adjusting the mics could bring out the detache vs. the slur for better expressiveness between the two solidified the point. I think Con Moto should still be for sale tbh, and that’s why I think Vista is going away also lol


----------



## Argy Ottas

Argy Ottas said:


> I described Vista better earlier this day in a well known Facebook group... 🤣🤣🤣


Continuing my trolling... My own post made me think. 
Does the affair (Vista) can become the new wife (Pacific)??? 
ok I'll stop...


----------



## davidson

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s discontinued. No idea why Jasper does this though. It’s a bit weird to put sample libraries on the market and then discontinuing them even though there are customers who’d probably still buy those libraries.


He seems to march to the beat of his own drum. The QC, the apparent lack of support, the lack of polish on the UIs, the lack of user account areas etc...the approach probably works great for working composers with plenty of disposable - you buy it if you need it, it works for you on x project, it's done its job, you move on and buy the next version if you need it.

For others like myself, I sit and worry about how it might be discontinued and whats coming next because if I'm honest, I don't actually _need_ it right now, I just want it. I'm just a hoarder of libraries.

They do sound and perform great, but they're aimed and priced at working composers IMO, and to that end they're perfect.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Awwwwww Man. I clicked on this link , just so used to seeing the Pacific thread , and I saw "Performance samples, Now Released!" and I was like Yesss......... Then I saw the Price $199 !!! WOW! Buy buy buy .............. Oh damn it is the Vista thread :( 

Don't do that to my heart please people !!!


----------



## artinro

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> You guys think there's a chance Vista could go the way of Con Moto and be discontinued? Any word on that?


I asked Jasper. There are no plans to discontinue Vista.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

artinro said:


> I asked Jasper. There are no plans to discontinue Vista.


Thanks a lot for that.


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow

I don’t have any Performance Samples libraries. Do you think this would be a good companion to Spitfire Studio Strings/Orchestra?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> I don’t have any Performance Samples libraries. Do you think this would be a good companion to Spitfire Studio Strings/Orchestra?


I don't own any SF library so i can't tell you but there's a free Vista demo with limited range you could try and see if that works. I'd ancourage you to listen to what's on offer. Oceania is pretty amazing. Also, watch video walk through. I'm personnaly tempted by the solo violin B at $39 cause it's so cheap and sounds amazing. Prices are at their lowest right now so it's the right time to get them.


----------



## novaburst

Watching one or two videos on Vista Strings each vid giving a very nice playability and a very warm sound, i do have the older PS Con Moto that is now discontinued but again has a very playable Legato but sounds a little thinner than its successor Vista,

PS do do a shorts library only spiccato not sure if recorded in the same space but i feel can be used to add a Macarto effect used with Con Moto and can only imagine also with their current library Vista.

I wonder if any has already thought of this idea and practicing this, 

Soaring Strings did the same then came out with Adventure Strings with a few articulations that can be used in conjunction with Soaring strings extending its capability


----------



## Vlzmusic

novaburst said:


> Watching one or two videos on Vista Strings each vid giving a very nice playability and a very warm sound, i do have the older PS Con Moto that is now discontinued but again has a very playable Legato but sounds a little thinner than its successor Vista,
> 
> PS do do a shorts library only spiccato not sure if recorded in the same space but i feel can be used to add a Macarto effect used with Con Moto and can only imagine also with their current library Vista.
> 
> I wonder if any has already thought of this idea and practicing this,
> 
> Soaring Strings did the same then came out with Adventure Strings with a few articulations that can be used in conjunction with Soaring strings extending its capability


I wouldn't call Vista a successor, they were parallel products with different contents, bigger string section versus chamber one, different playing style and different hall (no second violins in Vista btw). Con Moto will really be succeeded by Pacific Strings.


----------



## novaburst

I think what makes me say Vista is Con Moto successer is they both only have one style legato, but both are using a different type of legato but no other articulations,

Pacific I understand being a full fledged orchestra library with percussion brass and more, the string section having all or many articulations.


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow

I haven’t bought any sample libraries in quite a while, so after listening to a lot of demos I decided to treat myself and bought Vista and Angry Brass Pro Solo. Anyway, I can finally see what Performance Samples is all about if these ever finish downloading.


----------



## Vlzmusic

novaburst said:


> Pacific I understand being a full fledged orchestra library with percussion brass and more, the string section having all or many articulations.


Yes, in which the string section is a logical continuation of Con Moto, and when it first came out, the Cellos, then other instruments, people were eager to get "full library" version of Con Moto. I guess the big interest, coming from lots of people, made Jasper consider the idea.


----------



## Hendrixon

I passed on Vista cause for me, having Con Moto, it seemed more of the same.
Maybe different in some aspects (section size, hall, legato type), but bottom line it will do the same job in the same musical context.
Sure if money wasn't an object I would've bought it, but $200 here $250 there $300 elsewhere (like say CM+FSI+FSII+Vista+NSS)... it adds up quickly... suddenly you approach a grand out and what you have is basically more of the same, mainly legato strings.
For that cash someone that is a brass addict  could buy say JXLB out flat without any sale.

Man this is a very expensive hobby!
Mainly cause in the end of the day these are not assets that retain value.
For example I sold a bunch of guitar pedals I had laying around and bought an AxeFX II XL+ without adding any cash! some of those pedals I bought 20 years ago!
Do that with samples


----------



## Owen Smith

I'm really interested in Vista and love the demos that I've heard. However, I picked up Anthology a little while back and when I play the chamber and ensemble legatos they sound pretty good to me. The most annoying thing at the moment about anthology are the long loading times. I'm not a pro though and compose as a hobby when I get time, so it's hard to justify buying another string library when I have a pretty decent one for my purposes already. I realize this is subjective, but I'd love the opinion of anyone who owns both regarding just how much better you think Vista is and why (in terms of tone, playability, legato transitions, etc). Thanks for your feedback


----------



## Casiquire

Owen Smith said:


> I'm really interested in Vista and love the demos that I've heard. However, I picked up Anthology a little while back and when I play the chamber and ensemble legatos they sound pretty good to me. The most annoying thing at the moment about anthology are the long loading times. I'm not a pro though and compose as a hobby when I get time, so it's hard to justify buying another string library when I have a pretty decent one for my purposes already. I realize this is subjective, but I'd love the opinion of anyone who owns both regarding just how much better you think Vista is and why (in terms of tone, playability, legato transitions, etc). Thanks for your feedback


Quoting my comment from another thread about exactly this:






Your 2021 sample acquisitions thus far


Added: - IK Multimedia freebies: “the entire catalog” (Amplitube, Syntronik, T-RackS, SampleTank complete, running out of options) - soundDUST Infundibulum v1.1 - Arturia V Collection 8 upgrade (coming from V7) + SQ80 - Cherry Audio Mercury-4 - Expressive E Noisy - Expressive E Imagine -...




vi-control.net





I think it's easy to get myself confused here... Adagio has a really amazing sound and tone but it's nearly unusable in an actual project because you're stuck with very limited and exaggerated legato types. Anthology fixes that and is extremely usable but doesn't quite have the kind of motion offered by Vista. Anthology definitely has its place, and so does Vista. If you don't feel you need it, then you don't need it. I just don't think they're as comparable as it seems to someone who doesn't own them


----------



## Nigel Andreola

Owen Smith said:


> I'm really interested in Vista and love the demos that I've heard. However, I picked up Anthology a little while back and when I play the chamber and ensemble legatos they sound pretty good to me. The most annoying thing at the moment about anthology are the long loading times. I'm not a pro though and compose as a hobby when I get time, so it's hard to justify buying another string library when I have a pretty decent one for my purposes already. I realize this is subjective, but I'd love the opinion of anyone who owns both regarding just how much better you think Vista is and why (in terms of tone, playability, legato transitions, etc). Thanks for your feedback


Have you tried the Vista 5 Violins free download?


----------



## Owen Smith

Nigel Andreola said:


> Have you tried the Vista 5 Violins free download?


That's a great idea! Do you feel like the free demo gives a good representation of how the library sounds and plays? I know sometimes the free versions have less features, but I'll definitely download this and give it a try. That could really answer my question! Thanks again!


----------



## Owen Smith

Casiquire said:


> Quoting my comment from another thread about exactly this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your 2021 sample acquisitions thus far
> 
> 
> Added: - IK Multimedia freebies: “the entire catalog” (Amplitube, Syntronik, T-RackS, SampleTank complete, running out of options) - soundDUST Infundibulum v1.1 - Arturia V Collection 8 upgrade (coming from V7) + SQ80 - Cherry Audio Mercury-4 - Expressive E Noisy - Expressive E Imagine -...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's easy to get myself confused here... Adagio has a really amazing sound and tone but it's nearly unusable in an actual project because you're stuck with very limited and exaggerated legato types. Anthology fixes that and is extremely usable but doesn't quite have the kind of motion offered by Vista. Anthology definitely has its place, and so does Vista. If you don't feel you need it, then you don't need it. I just don't think they're as comparable as it seems to someone who doesn't own them


Thanks so much for your feedback @Casiquire! Yeah I have some adagio and agitato and adagietto libraries and I like their tones, but can't always fit them in my tracks. I've heard that Vista has something special about it. I can't believe I didn't realize there was a free demo version so I'm going to download that and give it a try to see how it feels and sounds under my fingertips. I should have done that before asking my question lol. Thanks again for taking your time to respond!


----------



## Casiquire

Owen Smith said:


> That's a great idea! Do you feel like the free demo gives a good representation of how the library sounds and plays? I know sometimes the free versions have less features, but I'll definitely download this and give it a try. That could really answer my question! Thanks again!


I think it's a good representation, but when you put all the sections together expect things to come alive a little more.


----------



## Nigel Andreola

Casiquire said:


> Quoting my comment from another thread about exactly this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your 2021 sample acquisitions thus far
> 
> 
> Added: - IK Multimedia freebies: “the entire catalog” (Amplitube, Syntronik, T-RackS, SampleTank complete, running out of options) - soundDUST Infundibulum v1.1 - Arturia V Collection 8 upgrade (coming from V7) + SQ80 - Cherry Audio Mercury-4 - Expressive E Noisy - Expressive E Imagine -...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's easy to get myself confused here... Adagio has a really amazing sound and tone but it's nearly unusable in an actual project because you're stuck with very limited and exaggerated legato types. Anthology fixes that and is extremely usable but doesn't quite have the kind of motion offered by Vista. Anthology definitely has its place, and so does Vista. If you don't feel you need it, then you don't need it. I just don't think they're as comparable as it seems to someone who doesn't own them





Owen Smith said:


> Thanks so much for your feedback @Casiquire! Yeah I have some adagio and agitato and adagietto libraries and I like their tones, but can't always fit them in my tracks. I've heard that Vista has something special about it. I can't believe I didn't realize there was a free demo version so I'm going to download that and give it a try to see how it feels and sounds under my fingertips. I should have done that before asking my question lol. Thanks again for taking your time to respond!


Having tried the Vista 5 Violins demo, I loaded up my Violin section libraries to compare them. I was surprised to find the BBCSO Core violins section sound and play very similar to the Vista violins demo. Even the tone and room sound somewhat similar. BBCSO Core offers portamento and velocity based attack. The legato is a bit tighter in BBCSO, but than, you do get that portamento for the slurred parts and a lot of useful articulations that the Agitato and Anthology libraries do not have. I'm not a fanboy of BBCSO like some on this forum are, but, if you do not already own it, I recommend picking it up when it is on sale. I find myself loading it up often for sketching ideas as it is super convenient and loads faster than 8dio's strings.


----------



## Casiquire

Nigel Andreola said:


> Having tried the Vista 5 Violins demo, I loaded up my Violin section libraries to compare them. I was surprised to find the BBCSO Core violins section sound and play very similar to the Vista violins demo. Even the tone and room sound somewhat similar. BBCSO Core offers portamento and velocity based attack. The legato is a bit tighter in BBCSO, but than, you do get that portamento for the slurred parts and a lot of useful articulations that the Agitato and Anthology libraries do not have. I'm not a fanboy of BBCSO like some on this forum are, but, if you do not already own it, I recommend picking it up when it is on sale. I find myself loading it up often for sketching ideas as it is super convenient and loads faster than 8dio's strings.


I think you're entirely right! I've heard more than one demo of BBCSO where i can totally hear that. The tone of those strings is really great. Spitfire almost won me over lol


----------



## novaburst

Hendrixon said:


> passed on Vista cause for me, having Con Moto, it seemed more of the same.


Listening to Vista appears to be more deliberate than Con Moto, if that makes any sense


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow

I was a bit worried that I would regret Vista and Angry Brass Solo, but I love the tone and simplicity! It definitely fits the “retro” vibe I love. I’m so pleased I might even get the brass ensemble and woodwinds! 

I think it’s a great addition to something like BHCT or Spitfire Studio Orchestra. I’m now a fan and understand what all the hype is about.


----------



## zwhita

Nigel Andreola said:


> I was surprised to find the BBCSO Core violins section sound and play very similar to the Vista violins demo. Even the tone and room sound somewhat similar.


I also made this observation in another thread after playing BBCSO Core along with the website audio demos and one of the youtube walkthroughs. I was informed that Vista should play along well with it by taking the lead at certain key moments. It ought to work fine as a supplemental legato for less emotionally intense parts. I'm still considering getting Vista as the sort of "cherry on top" to play over other string libraries. It ought to be worth the price if it gets alot of use.

I will have to choose between Vista and L&S Chamber. Thinking I might wait until the latter gets that long overdue update and hope it's still the same price.


----------



## Hendrixon

novaburst said:


> Listening to Vista appears to be more deliberate than Con Moto, if that makes any sense


After a long time, compared the free Vista violins to both Con Motos.
Yea its nice, there are more "things" in the recordings which makes it richer sounding, obvious slurs, attack accents... yea... its nice

Even though Pacific is much bigger, I'll wait and see what it will bring to the table.


----------



## dzilizzi

Hendrixon said:


> After a long time, compared the free Vista violins to both Con Motos.
> Yea its nice, there are more "things" in the recordings which makes it richer sounding, obvious slurs, attack accents... yea... its nice
> 
> Even though Pacific is much bigger, I'll wait and see what it will bring to the table.


Bu bu but, you can't turn down a string library that's on _SALE!!!!!!_


----------



## Hendrixon

dzilizzi said:


> Bu bu but, you can't turn down a string library that's on _SALE!!!!!!_


----------



## zwhita

dzilizzi said:


> Bu bu but, you can't turn down a string library that's on _SALE!!!!!!_


I've given it alot of thought today and I'm turning down Vista too. Too expensive.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

A better reason not to get it might be to save for the upcoming PS Voyage recorded in the same hall with more articulation etc?


----------



## axb312

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> A better reason not to get it might be to save for the upcoming PS Voyage recorded in the same hall with more articulation etc?


I believe there will be an intro/ loyalty discount for Vista owners on Voyage as well...So, you could consider it as getting an additional library free at intro price (thats what I'm thinking anyway)..


----------



## Snarf

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> A better reason not to get it might be to save for the upcoming PS Voyage recorded in the same hall with more articulation etc?





axb312 said:


> I believe there will be an intro/ loyalty discount for Vista owners on Voyage as well...So, you could consider it as getting an additional library free at intro price (thats what I'm thinking anyway)..


The difference between Pacific's intro price ($699) and loyalty price ($499) is more than the price of Vista during the sale ($179), which lets you qualify for the loyalty price. So if you are *sure* that you're going to buy Pacific Strings, you can get Vista basically for free, right now.


----------



## axb312

Snarf said:


> The difference between Pacific's intro price ($699) and loyalty price ($499) is more than the price of Vista during the sale ($179), which lets you qualify for the loyalty price. So if you are *sure* that you're going to buy Pacific Strings, you can get Vista basically for free, right now.


I think I said the same thing?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

axb312 said:


> I believe there will be an intro/ loyalty discount for Vista owners on Voyage as well...So, you could consider it as getting an additional library free at intro price (thats what I'm thinking anyway)..


That would make sense but did you hear or read something specific? I'm guessing you're speculating and i agree but I'd like to be sure. Anyway, good point. I guess we won't know until they release the price.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Snarf said:


> The difference between Pacific's intro price ($699) and loyalty price ($499) is more than the price of Vista during the sale ($179), which lets you qualify for the loyalty price. So if you are *sure* that you're going to buy Pacific Strings, you can get Vista basically for free, right now.


I was talking about Voyage. There's no pricing on this yet and loyalty discount info either.


----------



## lettucehat

I’m sure there will be some kind of loyalty discount, but let’s keep in mind a couple of things. One, the loyalty discounts are binary, yes or no. You only need one item in a list of qualifying products to qualify, so don’t stack them up like they’ll really bring down the cost. Two, Voyage is probably a long ways away now that Pacific is behind its initial target date. So IMO, pick up what you actually want without worrying too much about the loyalty discount. Voyage will be pretty expensive and buying Vista likely won’t knock off much. Buy Vista because you should want Vista!


----------



## Snarf

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I was talking about Voyage. There's no pricing on this yet and loyalty discount info either.


Sorry, misread that. Shouldn't post when tired!
Given PS's significant loyalty prices in the past, I think the same principle will apply to Voyage in all likelihood, though.



axb312 said:


> I think I said the same thing?


Yeah I don't know why I quoted you...


----------



## Hendrixon

lettucehat said:


> Buy Vista because you should want Vista!


^^^ That.



Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> A better reason not to get it might be to save for the upcoming PS Voyage recorded in the same hall with more articulation etc?


Save for Voyage?!
We don't even have Pacific out yet lol


----------



## Russell Anderson

All the more time to save!


----------



## Hendrixon

Russell Anderson said:


> All the more time to save!


----------



## dzilizzi

How many loyalty discounts do I get if I have all of them????

I grabbed Con Moto during the discontinuation sale. Now I have Vista. I wasn't actually going to buy Pacific. But now I have to because I have all of the loyalty buy ins. Isn't that how it works? 

Seriously, though, what the difference between Voyager and Pacific? When I see "bespoked" I think "expensive" and "for professionals only"


----------



## Hendrixon

dzilizzi said:


> How many loyalty discounts do I get if I have all of them????
> 
> I grabbed Con Moto during the discontinuation sale. Now I have Vista. I wasn't actually going to buy Pacific. But now I have to because I have all of the loyalty buy ins. Isn't that how it works?
> 
> Seriously, though, what the difference between Voyager and Pacific? When I see "bespoked" I think "expensive" and "for professionals only"


Read PS's FAQ, at some point if you have enough loyalty discounts? Jasper will start paying you.


In short I'd say Pacific is Like SSS and Voyage is like SCS.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

dzilizzi said:


> How many loyalty discounts do I get if I have all of them????
> 
> I grabbed Con Moto during the discontinuation sale. Now I have Vista. I wasn't actually going to buy Pacific. But now I have to because I have all of the loyalty buy ins. Isn't that how it works?
> 
> Seriously, though, what the difference between Voyager and Pacific? When I see "bespoked" I think "expensive" and "for professionals only"


It's best to go on PS store and read all available info about it. But Pacific is symphony orch. size with basic articulations while Voyage is similar size to Vista with way more articulations.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

dzilizzi said:


> How many loyalty discounts do I get if I have all of them????
> 
> I grabbed Con Moto during the discontinuation sale. Now I have Vista. I wasn't actually going to buy Pacific. But now I have to because I have all of the loyalty buy ins. Isn't that how it works?
> 
> Seriously, though, what the difference between Voyager and Pacific? When I see "bespoked" I think "expensive" and "for professionals only"


..or read this: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/performance-samples-pacific-symphonic-strings.108748/






Performance Samples VOYAGE - Discussion!


Yessss!




vi-control.net


----------



## dzilizzi

Hendrixon said:


> Read PS's FAQ, at some point if you have enough loyalty discounts? Jasper will start paying you.


Just what I wanted to hear!   

Yeah, looking at the explanation, not sure I really need 14 dynamic layers. Though I can see the use for it.


----------



## Vik

zwhita said:


> I will have to choose between Vista and L&S Chamber. Thinking I might wait until the latter gets that long overdue update and hope it's still the same price.


I have tried both, and I'd go for Vista over LA Chamber – personally, I plan to buy Vista even if I have three of the Con Moto instruments.

If you have problem deciding between Vista and LS Chamber Strings, remember that they are very different libraries. Maybe that will help you make a decision.


----------



## mgaewsj

Vik said:


> I have tried both, and I'd go for Vista over LA Chamber – personally, I plan to buy Vista even if I have three of the Con Moto instruments.
> 
> If you have problem deciding between Vista and LS Chamber Strings, remember that they are very different libraries. Maybe that will help you make a decision.


I got L&S Chamber Strings recently and after some initial struggling I am now enjoying it a lot and there's going to be a significant upgrade/update soon.
They are indeed very different libraries. Both great in my opinion.

Let me quote Cory Pelizzari about the comparison:
"They're totally different libraries. Vista is for quick, fluid legato lines. L&S Chamber Strings have less movement and fluidity but are built for more overall composing with different shorts and longs, so you can do much more with them in terms of genre and variety."


----------



## zwhita

Thanks for the advice Vik, but I've decided not to pay boutique prices anymore. Just too many other software products I'd rather buy. Therefore I won't be getting either one this year.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

zwhita said:


> Thanks for the advice Vik, but I've decided not to pay boutique prices anymore. Just too many other software products I'd rather buy. Therefore I won't be getting either one this year.


You consider $150 for L&S Chamber Strings boutique price?


----------



## zwhita

No, I mentioned earlier that I wouldn't get L&S until they update it.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

zwhita said:


> No, I mentioned earlier that I wouldn't get L&S until they update it.


Sorry i forgot.


----------



## ism

mgaewsj said:


> "They're totally different libraries. Vista is for quick, fluid legato lines. L&S Chamber Strings have less movement and fluidity but are built for more overall composing with different shorts and longs, so you can do much more with them in terms of genre and variety."


I didn't see where this quote came from, but I'd have to disagree on the lack of movement and fluidity in LSCS.

LCSC has these amazing recorded crescendos and decrescendos, that you invoke in the legato patches with the sus pedal. It takes a bit of time to get your head around it, but it's transformative in the sense of movement and fluidity it can breathe into lines once once you get the hang of it.

At the same time it's absolutely nothing like the uber-high-romantic-extra-strength-CSS sense of fluidity and motion baked into Vista (which is also beautiful). 

To say that LSCS lacks fluidity and motion vis-a-vis Vista is to either forget entirely about this singularly innovative feature in LCSC, or else to forget entirely that the notions of fluidity and motion can mean other things beside the dominant uber-high-romantic-extra-strength-CSS kind of fluidity and motion.


----------



## mgaewsj

ism said:


> I didn't see where this quote came from, .



it's in the comments:


----------



## ism

In some sense LSCS and Vista represents the extreme opposite ends of the spectrum of my palette. Both beautiful, both dynamic. But I can’t say I’ve ever been inspired to even attempt to blend them, and probably never will.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

An other thing i find speacial about LSCS is the mic perspectives. I get a sense the engeneering is above what we often get. Or maybe it's just me. I mean I'm not an engineer after all.
edited: The room might have something to do with it as well.


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> An other thing i find speacial about LSCS is the mic perspectives. I get a sense the engeneering is above what we often get. Or maybe it's just me. I mean I'm not an engineer after all.


I'm a huge fan of microphone positions that do a lot to shape the sound. One of very few criticisms i have of MSS is that the room and surround mics are too similar; same goes for two of the Hollywood Strings mics. I love how Vista's mics shift between a more wild heavy vibrato and a smoother delivery while keeping both the room and detail intact. That's the kind of effect that interests me. So I'm intrigued by your comments on the LSCS mics.

I'm also curious about a LSCS and Venice Modern Strings shootout. They have some similarities and don't get a ton of buzz around here but seem so capable


----------



## lettucehat

Casiquire said:


> I'm a huge fan of microphone positions that do a lot to shape the sound. One of very few criticisms i have of MSS is that the room and surround mics are too similar; same goes for two of the Hollywood Strings mics. I love how Vista's mics shift between a more wild heavy vibrato and a smoother delivery while keeping both the room and detail intact. That's the kind of effect that interests me. So I'm intrigued by your comments on the LSCS mics.
> 
> I'm also curious about a LSCS and Venice Modern Strings shootout. They have some similarities and don't get a ton of buzz around here but seem so capable


So true about Hollywood Strings, great as it all sounds.

I do wish the close and section miking were a little more consistent in timbre between Con Moto and Vista, but the different mic positions within each library are very different from each other, which I agree is super important.


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## Vlzmusic

lettucehat said:


> So true about Hollywood Strings, great as it all sounds.


You know, when they first came out, more than a decade ago (urgh I am old...) the Eastwest studios was a WOW factor, since they could extensively use it for all the libraries, and the sound was fresh and detailed, plus the great engineering by Shawn Murphy etc. 
Nowadays, if you listen carefully to Abbey Road and Teldex stuff, you can hear how much more spacious those rooms are.


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## lettucehat

Vlzmusic said:


> You know, when they first came out, more than a decade ago (urgh I am old...) the Eastwest studios was a WOW factor, since they could extensively use it for all the libraries, and the sound was fresh and detailed, plus the great engineering by Shawn Murphy etc.
> Nowadays, if you listen carefully to Abbey Road and Teldex stuff, you can hear how much more spacious those rooms are.


You can definitely tell across the board that HS was made a decade ago - and I mean that neutrally, not in an insulting way, because I do like HS and generally any libraries that swing for the fences (Berlin...). Back then these libraries were few and far between and aimed squarely at professionals, and it shows in the details - the premium price, the finger positions, up and down bows, the bow change plus slur plus portamento legato, the multiple mics (but no out-of-the-box mixes like Opus and virtually all libraries). I've made this comment in lots of threads, but it's funny how orchestral libraries have actually trended towards fewer options in the articulations even though everything is sounding much better. Anyway, getting pretty off topic. Vista isn't really in the same category, since it's not trying to be a comprehensive string library, but a perfect example of how these days most of us are content with libraries that kind of finds a compromise in legato and, thanks to advances in sampling technique and scripting (maybe?), works well most of the time.


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## Casiquire

lettucehat said:


> You can definitely tell across the board that HS was made a decade ago - and I mean that neutrally, not in an insulting way, because I do like HS and generally any libraries that swing for the fences (Berlin...). Back then these libraries were few and far between and aimed squarely at professionals, and it shows in the details - the premium price, the finger positions, up and down bows, the bow change plus slur plus portamento legato, the multiple mics (but no out-of-the-box mixes like Opus and virtually all libraries). I've made this comment in lots of threads, but it's funny how orchestral libraries have actually trended towards fewer options in the articulations even though everything is sounding much better. Anyway, getting pretty off topic. Vista isn't really in the same category, since it's not trying to be a comprehensive string library, but a perfect example of how these days most of us are content with libraries that kind of finds a compromise in legato and, thanks to advances in sampling technique and scripting (maybe?), works well most of the time.


I totally agree but I'm not crazy about it. I think that's why I was so drawn in to MSS, because it plays on that same level in a field where few libraries still do. I feel like i need more than legato, staccato, and pizzicato. In fact i almost feel like i NEED fingered versus bow change, and I NEED multiple attacks, and I NEED slurred and tongued transitions. I'm disappointed by lack of finger positions in everything but HS and Dimension, and lack of divisi in (to my knowledge) everything but LASS, Dimension, the new Sonokinetic library, and MSS.

I thought Dimension, with its individual recorded strings, finger positions, multiple legato types and sustains, player noises, etc would push future libraries even further, but instead it almost seemed to endcap an era. Synchron started up not too long after.

Anyway, I say all of this and I'm not even the kind of professional user you were referring to! So maybe there is a bigger market for it than it seems, but not necessarily but enough to justify the expense


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## Vlzmusic

I think the market is oversaturated with strings at the moment, it's getting really tough to succeed with a new lib in such climate.


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## ism

Vlzmusic said:


> I think the market is oversaturated with strings at the moment, it's getting really tough to succeed with a new lib in such climate.


I'm not sure I see that at all (though I don't have any insider industry information).

Sure, gone are the days when you can charge $2000 for a string library. But so are the days when only pros with server farms could afford them.

At, I don't know, maybe the $500-600 mark, then most people might consider, over the course of a few years picking of 3 or 4 string libraries.

When the start hitting the $150-200 mark (LSCS, SStS, Venice Strings, Century Strings, Vista etc), then people will just start backing their trucks up to the tap and filling up on strings libraries. 

Because for one thing, a lot more people are buying libraries (Troels at 8dio recently suggest that in the course of their company - about a decade - they've seen the number of people buying libraries go from the hundreds, to the thousands to the 10s of thousand, and now approaching the million threshold (though 8dio has a broad business including a lot of pop, EDM and hybrid folks as well).

Plus, it's quite well established (here at least) that you can never have too many string libraries.


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## handz

ism said:


> I'm not sure I see that at all (though I don't have any insider industry information).
> 
> Sure, gone are the days when you can charge $2000 for a string library. But so are the days when only pros with server farms could afford them.
> 
> At, I don't know, maybe to $5-600 mark, then most people might consider, over the course of a few years picking of 3 or 4 string libraries.
> 
> When the start hitting the $150-200 mark (LSCS, SStS, Venice Strings, Century Strings, Vista etc), then people will just start backing the trucks up to the tap and filling up on strings libraries.
> 
> Because for one thing, a lot more people are buying libraries (Troels at 8dio recently suggest that in the course of their company - about a decade - they've seen the number of people buying libraries go from the hundreds, to the thousands to the 10s of thousand, and now approaching the million threshold (though 8dio has a broad business including a lot of pop, EDM and hybrid folks as well).
> 
> Plus, it's quite well established (here at least) that you can never have too many string libraries.


They really do well huh. 

Well the music business is more saturated than ever. As machines became more affordable. Youtube and rest of internet made knowledge about how to do music more easily available - I really think there is nothing like too much libraries. Especially in 200-400 range that anyone can afford. There is still so much to improve


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## ism

handz said:


> Well the music business is more saturated than ever.


The music making business may be saturated. But music making isn't. I know lots of people who I think should start buying sample libraries, just for their own general good, but who just don't know it yet.


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## handz

ism said:


> The music making business may be saturated. But music making isn't. I know lots of people who I think should start buying sample libraries, just for their own general good, but who just don't know it yet.


Oh trust me, its 10x more saturated than like 20-15 years ago. Back then It felt like there were 50 people working with sample libraries around the world. Now it seems like whole world do some kind of music with sample libraries hah.


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## lettucehat

I think the industry is probably doing better than ever, but because of the sheer volume of mid-priced libraries that can be sold to a growing market. It's probably _not_ a great time to do a "more is more" library like VSL Cube, Hollywood Strings, Berlin, or Dimension (thanks I didn't realize how crazy detailed it was!)... unless it's somehow leaps and bounds ahead of the really popular affordable options, it's not worth the risk of never recouping the enormous costs. _That _market seems exhausted at this point - the people who can shell out big bucks have everything from CSS to Berlin to Synchron already. You have to beat that combination in flexibility and realism.


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## jbuhler

lettucehat said:


> I think the industry is probably doing better than ever, but because of the sheer volume of mid-priced libraries that can be sold to a growing market. It's probably _not_ a great time to do a "more is more" library like VSL Cube, Hollywood Strings, Berlin, or Dimension (thanks I didn't realize how crazy detailed it was!)... unless it's somehow leaps and bounds ahead of the really popular affordable options, it's not worth the risk of never recouping the enormous costs. _That _market seems exhausted at this point - the people who can shell out big bucks have everything from CSS to Berlin to Synchron already. You have to beat that combination in flexibility and realism.


The companies that can afford to do it are the ones that have a large set of more affordable libraries to cover the operating costs of the business. Also the more expensive library then becomes the flagship that exists less for sales than for prestige and reputation. Like movie studios of old, not every library needs to make money if you have enough libraries making money. This seems to be the strategy SF for instance is taking with the AR modular library—though since it's not out it's hard to say for certain.


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## handz

jbuhler said:


> The companies that can afford to do it are the ones that have a large set of more affordable libraries to cover the operating costs of the business. Also the more expensive library then becomes the flagship that exists less for sales than for prestige and reputation. Like movie studios of old, not every library needs to make money if you have enough libraries making money. This seems to be the strategy SF for instance is taking with the AR modular library—though since it's not out it's hard to say for certain.


Well, East West and Vienna for sure. It is a prestigious thing to have some flagship libraries but it is slowly getting out of fashion as I believe people rather buying more smaller libs now - the number of developers is huge and number of releases is monumental now.


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## jbuhler

handz said:


> Well, East West and Vienna for sure. It is a prestigious thing to have some flagship libraries but it is slowly getting out of fashion as I believe people rather buying more smaller libs now - the number of developers is huge and number of releases is monumental now.


I don’t think it’s going out of fashion at all. There are just a limited number of sample companies with the resources to do it. I would say VSL, SF, and maybe OT; there are a few other companies that may try their hand. Opus isn’t priced at that level. SF’s SSO is not priced at that level. Yes, all those companies sell many affordable libraries that keep the lights on. The point of prestige flagship libraries is not really to sell enough copies to make back the investment. The point of really expensive flagship libraries is to burnish the brand’s reputation.


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## handz

jbuhler said:


> I don’t think it’s going out of fashion at all. There are just a limited number of sample companies with the resources to do it. I would say VSL, SF, and maybe OT; there are a few other companies that may try their hand. Opus isn’t priced at that level. SF’s SSO is not priced at that level. Yes, all those companies sell many affordable libraries that keep the lights on. The point of prestige flagship libraries is not really to sell enough copies to make back the investment. The point of really expensive flagship libraries is to burnish the brand’s reputation.


I understand this but my impression is that this is not in fashion anymore. 

Last time I he the feeling someone really made a flagship library it was Hollywood Orchestra. I am not super into Spitfire, they have some expensive orchestral packages but I always find their prices bit too high and not really bringing anything revolutionary or amazing to the scene. 

I really wonder if we ever see a new complete premium orchestral library that would make an impact anytime soon


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## Laurin Lenschow

handz said:


> I really wonder if we ever see a new complete premium orchestral library that would make an impact anytime soon


Spitfire's modular Abbey Road library?


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## handz

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Spitfire's modular Abbey Road library?


I think that anything modular is already not a premium library as it is sold in small parts and well - looking at the SF website it does not seem like being particularly expensive.


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## Laurin Lenschow

handz said:


> I think that anything modular is already not a premium library as it is sold in small parts and well - looking at the SF website it does not seem like being particularly expensive.


I think they are going with the modular approach because it will be so deep-sampled and expensive, that nobody could/would buy the whole package at once. My guess is about 1400$ per orchestral section.


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## wlinart

jbuhler said:


> The companies that can afford to do it are the ones that have a large set of more affordable libraries to cover the operating costs of the business. Also the more expensive library then becomes the flagship that exists less for sales than for prestige and reputation. Like movie studios of old, not every library needs to make money if you have enough libraries making money. This seems to be the strategy SF for instance is taking with the AR modular library—though since it's not out it's hard to say for certain.


I don't think it's more for the prestige. Eastwest for example once said that they sold about 1 million copies of the hollywood orchestra. Let's say the average price point would be $500, That's $500Million, while they also said that the cost of making it was about $1Million. So, they made a lot of money on this. And i guess with SF, they also made a lot of money, because IIRC they built their empire on starting with those flagship ones


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## Casiquire

wlinart said:


> I don't think it's more for the prestige. Eastwest for example once said that they sold about 1 million copies of the hollywood orchestra. Let's say the average price point would be $500, That's $500Million, while they also said that the cost of making it was about $1Million. So, they made a lot of money on this. And i guess with SF, they also made a lot of money, because IIRC they built their empire on starting with those flagship ones


I feel like that number of sales *has* to be wrong 😯


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## dzilizzi

Casiquire said:


> I feel like that number of sales *has* to be wrong 😯


I think it has been around for at least 10 years, more likely,15+. And, for a long time, it was probably the cheapest one out there at about $3k for the whole thing. So when they started the 50% off sales, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't sell a lot more. Also, places like schools and businesses that do production music have licenses for each computer. So it depends on how they count sales.


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## Laurin Lenschow

Casiquire said:


> I feel like that number of sales *has* to be wrong 😯


My guess is they also count everyone who has ever been subscribed to their composer cloud.


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## wlinart

Casiquire said:


> I feel like that number of sales *has* to be wrong 😯


I wish i could find it back, but i'm sure i read it somewhere. I'll keep searching


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## dzilizzi

Laurin Lenschow said:


> My guess is they also count everyone who has ever been subscribed to their composer cloud.


And if you subscribe for a month, stop, then subscribe again? That's 2 sales.


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## dzilizzi

I have to wonder if any of the newer orchestral libraries will ever sell as much as the early ones where there was so much less competition.


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## Hendrixon

dzilizzi said:


> I have to wonder if any of the newer orchestral libraries will ever sell as much as the early ones where there was so much less competition.


Though much much LESS clients


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## Futchibon

dzilizzi said:


> I have to wonder if any of the newer orchestral libraries will ever sell as much as the early ones where there was so much less competition.





Hendrixon said:


> Though much much LESS clients


I asked the owner of my local cafe how business was going and he said his hotcakes were selling like Spitfire sample libraries


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## Casiquire

dzilizzi said:


> I think it has been around for at least 10 years, more likely,15+. And, for a long time, it was probably the cheapest one out there at about $3k for the whole thing. So when they started the 50% off sales, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't sell a lot more. Also, places like schools and businesses that do production music have licenses for each computer. So it depends on how they count sales.


Sure, but it implies that several millions of people even know what sample libraries are in the first place, which i have a hard time with. Anyway not a big deal, and it's possibly totally true anyway, it just doesn't feel right


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## dzilizzi

Casiquire said:


> Sure, but it implies that several millions of people even know what sample libraries are in the first place, which i have a hard time with. Anyway not a big deal, and it's possibly totally true anyway, it just doesn't feel right


When I think about its use, I think that studios may buy multiple licenses, just to cover themselves if they use samples in tv shows and movies. Each production may need to own a copy of the libraries used in order to legally use the samples. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how it all works. It may come down to who owns the performance rights. This could add a lot of "sales" for their numbers. 

Do you think they also count the pirated copies?


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## OleJoergensen

wlinart said:


> I wish i could find it back, but i'm sure i read it somewhere. I'll keep searching


I think it was in this interview…….


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## mgaewsj

ism said:


> I didn't see where this quote came from, but I'd have to disagree on the lack of movement and fluidity in LSCS.
> 
> LCSC has these amazing recorded crescendos and decrescendos, that you invoke in the legato patches with the sus pedal. It takes a bit of time to get your head around it, but it's transformative in the sense of movement and fluidity it can breathe into lines once once you get the hang of it.
> 
> At the same time it's absolutely nothing like the uber-high-romantic-extra-strength-CSS sense of fluidity and motion baked into Vista (which is also beautiful).
> 
> To say that LSCS lacks fluidity and motion vis-a-vis Vista is to either forget entirely about this singularly innovative feature in LCSC, or else to forget entirely that the notions of fluidity and motion can mean other things beside the dominant uber-high-romantic-extra-strength-CSS kind of fluidity and motion.


forgive me if this is not "correct" but as I just posted a mockup (my second one) featuring both Vista and LSCS on the member mockups forum I am posting it here too 😊
Hoping to get some feedback


More info about the piece here




__





My second orchestral mockup. Noodling with Vista evolved into a piece


This piece started just as a doodle to test Vista, then I challenged myself to extend it to add some “pompous” brass action. I tend to always fall for emotional and passionate themes and I am struggling to go beyond that :). This my second (noob) mockup. I posted the first one a few months...




vi-control.net


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## szczaw

dzilizzi said:


> I think it has been around for at least 10 years, more likely,15+. And, for a long time, it was probably the cheapest one out there at about $3k for the whole thing. So when they started the 50% off sales, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't sell a lot more. Also, places like schools and businesses that do production music have licenses for each computer. So it depends on how they count sales.


Maybe they count each HO section as one. One million sales of the whole package is a huge number.


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## Raphioli

ism said:


> LCSC has these amazing recorded crescendos and decrescendos, that you invoke in the legato patches with the sus pedal.


Interesting! I didn't have it on my radar, but I'll need to take a look.
Wish Spitfire did something similar using SCS and Chamber Evolutions.(not sure if its technically possible)


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## zwhita

zwhita said:


> I've given it alot of thought today and I'm turning down Vista too. Too expensive.


Quoting myself from four months ago to outline why I'm reconsidering:


It doesn't look like L&S Chamber Strings will see any more updates in Kontakt
I purchased Spitfire Appassionata Strings during the intro sale. Vista allegedly is superior in playability and dynamics, albeit with a different tone and is mostly for more romantic and intense legato expression than SAS.(thus less overlap)
Pacific looks like a winner, so why not benefit from the loyalty discount before any potential offers are "subject to change"
I bought SAS and love it, so the "too expensive" excuse no longer holds water.


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## chapbot

zwhita said:


> Quoting myself from four months ago to outline why I'm reconsidering:
> 
> 
> It doesn't look like L&S Chamber Strings will see any more updates in Kontakt
> I purchased Spitfire Appassionata Strings during the intro sale. Vista allegedly is superior in playability and dynamics, albeit with a different tone and is mostly for more romantic and intense legato expression than SAS.(thus less overlap)
> Pacific looks like a winner, so why not benefit from the loyalty discount before any potential offers are "subject to change"
> I bought SAS and love it, so the "too expensive" excuse no longer holds water.


L&S aren't going to get updates? Is there a forum post about it?


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

chapbot said:


> L&S aren't going to get updates? Is there a forum post about it?


They're developing their own player.


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## zedmaster

Vista is on sale for $159, which is about 53% off. Offer until March 11. Great library, great offer imo.


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## zwhita

chapbot said:


> L&S aren't going to get updates? Is there a forum post about it?


This post is how I found it.


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## Casiquire

zedmaster said:


> Vista is on sale for $159, which is about 53% off. Offer until March 11. Great library, great offer imo.



This is right around what I think is fair to pay for it. It's about what i picked it up for. Worth it even if you're not going to get Pacific, but if you are planning on it anyway...what are you waiting for lol


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## Vik

zwhita said:


> This post is how I found it.


That statement from the L&S developer(s) also contain this (my emphasis):


"I feel like I've taken the right feedback about _why _they weren't well received on board and gone in a direction that is, at its core, customer friendly (_and maybe even developer friendly for those interested_ )"

That's potentially very good news for companies whicn have no plans about making their own sample players but for one reason or another would prefer not to be Kontakt based.


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## Henrik B. Jensen

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> They're developing their own player.


Now’s the time to buy it while it’s still in Kontakt, I guess.

Edit: This is about L&S Chamber Strings btw., not PS and Vista


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Now’s the time to buy it while it’s still in Kontakt, I guess.
> 
> Edit: This is about L&S Chamber Strings btw., not PS and Vista


Already have couldn't resist that price.


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