# A $990 EQ Plugin



## KallumS (Jan 3, 2019)

I just came across this $990 EQ plugin - https://www.maat.digital/theqorange/

From looking at the page, it looks like it could be the cleanest EQ plugin out there.

It's obviously out of reach of hobbyists and amateurs due to the price, but I was wondering if this looks worth the money to anyone and in what situations would someone need an EQ as expensive as this?

Would anyone here use this EQ over say, Fabfilter Pro Q3 or even a hardware EQ?


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jan 3, 2019)

Overpriced? No considering that there are hardware EQs worth $10,000. IMO those are no better than an $100 plugin. Different, but neither better than the other. Each will excel in certain cases.

Having said that, if all they want is a super clean EQ, then I think the DSP would be pretty basic and I'm no sure if it offers anything beyond what Fabfilter can do. They seem to be touting their use of FIR but I'm not sure how that's supposedly hard to implement. EQuilibrium can also do FIR a long with a range of other options for a fraction of the price.

In other words, I think no plugin or EQ is too expensive (considering the price of some hardware units) but this seems to be offering the same simple processing as what cheaper plugins provide.

Edit: Why would anyone even care about having a super "clean" EQ? What does that even mean? Fabfilter is super "clean" in the way it operates (as in it follows the basic DSP it says it does) so how is this any different? This is no cleaner than anything else. It's just a different flavor.


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## KMA (Jan 3, 2019)

There's something for everyone.
Or possibly, no one.


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## AdamKmusic (Jan 3, 2019)

I’ll stick with Pro-Q3


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## Erick - BVA (Jan 3, 2019)

AdamKmusic said:


> I’ll stick with Pro-Q3


But it's $100 off!
Back to reality.... I don't have Pro-Q3, but I have more than a few EQ's, and all of them together don't add up to $990 or even $890 for that matter.

I'd say try it out yourself before plunking down almost 1k USD. But it looks like you need a dongle just to do that?

https://www.maat.digital/try_thEQ/


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 3, 2019)

H-eq works fine for me. I think it's under 50.


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## Dietz (Jan 3, 2019)

Having used the original Algorithmix Orange EQ for quite some time back then I can assure you that their algorithms lived up to the hype. Like most of their products it had a clunky GUI and ate CPU cycles for breakfast, but any changes applied to an audio source were more or less transparent, both in phase _and_ timing. One of the most remarkable processors in this field, maybe even _the_ most remarkable one.

... a very uninteresting plug-in for those who crave for "colour", "mojo", "magic" and wooden panels in every piece of gear. 

_PS: You'll find Algorithmix' legendary know-how in several other companies' products too, like Waves, SSL, ... _


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## Erick - BVA (Jan 3, 2019)

The 3 EQ's I use the most: 

Equalizer4 by Toneboosters:
https://www.toneboosters.com/tb_equalizer_v4.html

Maag4 by Maag
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/maag_eq4.html

Q10 by Waves
https://www.waves.com/plugins/q10-e...V_er6_ylm7LDNWv28W_5k1-E6Lc8wBKhoCKwgQAvD_BwE

Total cost at the moment: about $170. 
I actually think those are the only EQ plugins I've actually paid for. A lot of good free ones out there as well.
Very happy with them, but I guess maybe I haven't experienced anything better, so I only know what I know?


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## Erick - BVA (Jan 3, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> H-eq works fine for me. I think it's under 50.


I've almost pulled the trigger on that one just for the simple ability to select certain pitches. It could be a time saver in many situations. Just haven't bought it yet. 
Maybe I'll wait 'till it's $29....pretty much every Waves plugin is $29 at least once a year, sometimes multiple times a year.


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## Francis Bourre (Jan 3, 2019)

The target is for high fidelity mastering with this pre-post non-ringing phased aligned algorithm. So for most of us it doesn't make sense.


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## Dietz (Jan 3, 2019)

The problem with "conventional" EQs like the ones you all link to right now is that they either mess-up phase, or - in case of "linear phase designs" - they mess up the timing of a signal. Keeping intact these two aspects of a signal while still changing its tonal content is close to the proverbial quadrature of the circle. Nothing you need in your average mixer channel, but the holy grail for really demanding (mastering/restauration/you-name-it) tasks.

EDIT: Francis wrote faster than me.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 3, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> I've almost pulled the trigger on that one just for the simple ability to select certain pitches. It could be a time saver in many situations. Just haven't bought it yet.
> Maybe I'll wait 'till it's $29....pretty much every Waves plugin is $29 at least once a year, sometimes multiple times a year.



Arrgh you JUST missed a 29 deal last Black Friday at Waves. But they do offer sales up intermittently so I personally would just keep my eyes on email.

It's my default eq. I love Pro-Q, but it's too easy for me to go down an option-gala-rabbit-hole with the Fabfilter. I end up with me 'ed (oy!) stuck up in m'arsch.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Jan 3, 2019)

They may well be MAAT...

But I for one am not BAAT S*** Crazy!!
They have seen us music makers coming there 

For the record I am sure there are solidly justifiable tech reasons behind this price and for an enthusiast or a purist, fair enough.. but for the average music maker... NOPE


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## Prockamanisc (Jan 3, 2019)

If I'm going to invest almost $1000 into an EQ, I'd rather spend a bit more and invest in a workhorse piece of hardware. Hell, you could almost buy a single channel Pultec 500.


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## Rob (Jan 3, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> I've almost pulled the trigger on that one just for the simple ability to select certain pitches. It could be a time saver in many situations. Just haven't bought it yet.
> Maybe I'll wait 'till it's $29....pretty much every Waves plugin is $29 at least once a year, sometimes multiple times a year.


H-eq is on sale at around $21 right now at Audiodeluxe... once you apply the HALFOFF coupon


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## Quasar (Jan 3, 2019)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> They may well be MAAT...
> 
> But I for one am not BAAT S*** Crazy!!
> They have seen us music makers coming there
> ...



You're more charitable than I am. I am not in a position to know whether there are solidly justifiable tech reasons behind this price or not, and there might be. But my default position is extreme skepticism.


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## burp182 (Jan 3, 2019)

The most likely reason for the price isn’t some piece of unobtanium-level component (ala a true hardware Fairchild 660/670) but more likely the need to pay for a tremendous amount of development work and cost to achieve what appears to be an astonishingly difficult task. Since they’re not going to sell 100,000 of them to who don’t necessarily need or understand the achievement, they price it based on a model of realistic potential sales. 
Not unrealistic and, assuming it does as advertised, not to be found elsewhere.
We should be happy that some people are willing to do this level work for limited return.


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## wst3 (Jan 4, 2019)

Algorithmix is a top notch DSP developer, they had a line of reasonably priced plugins many years ago, and I gather they did not sell well. Their lineup now is clearly directed towards the upper echelon of audio professionals - those that can hear, and care about, subtle differences.

I had the opportunity, several years ago, to work with a hardware platform (Inter-M) for which they were contracted to develop some basic audio tools. I have to say, it was one of the best sounding equalizers and compressors I've used, and the difference was not subtle, everyone that used it noticed. Not everyone liked it, but everyone noticed.

So for someone that needs it the price is probably no obstacle. For the rest of us mere mortals... it is.


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## EvilDragon (Jan 4, 2019)

Quasar said:


> I am not in a position to know whether there are solidly justifiable tech reasons behind this price or not, and there might be.



There are very good tech reasons there. Loooots of R&D involved, apparently. Please read what Francis and Dietz wrote above. That's it in a nutshell. Your regular EQ messes with the phase, and linear phase EQs have pre-ringing artifacts because they're messing with the time of the signal. Apparently they have solved the conundrum and got the best of both worlds with minimum amount of fucking with your signal.

This is definitely more geared towards mastering engineer, not the VI-C lot


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## Quasar (Jan 4, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> There are very good tech reasons there. Loooots of R&D involved, apparently. Please read what Francis and Dietz wrote above. That's it in a nutshell. Your regular EQ messes with the phase, and linear phase EQs have pre-ringing artifacts because they're messing with the time of the signal. Apparently they have solved the conundrum and got the best of both worlds with minimum amount of fucking with your signal.
> 
> This is definitely more geared towards mastering engineer, not the VI-C lot



Ultimately, attempts to assess "what something is worth" can lead down numerous rabbit holes, and the answers people come up with will reveal more about their respective worldviews than they will about the intrinsic "worth" of a product... Medical drugs, for instance, that are cheap to manufacture but cost beaucoup bucks in initial R&D may command a high price point, and people will have radically different opinions about the fairness and legitimacy of that...

... But we can probably all agree that a linear phase EQ that has no "pre/post phase ringing" will never be a life-&-death issue for anyone, so IMHO it will rather harmlessly cost whatever it costs, people will buy it or not, and the eventual price will likely be a product of how the natural desirability & demand plays out. It doesn't matter to me in the slightest, nor do I expect (as you say) it will matter to most people here.

If they are truly advancing the science of creating digital audio effects, and the high price paid by those willing and able to pay helps with this effort, cool...


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## KMA (Jan 4, 2019)

It's worth noting that your least favourite band will sound exactly the same through this EQ.


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## Architekton (Jan 4, 2019)

Use Pro-Q3 with natural phase and youll get same sound as with this overpriced digital EQ. Dont fall for trick: more expensive = better!


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## robgb (Jan 4, 2019)

This may well be the most egregious abuse of the psychology of pricing that I've ever seen. I actually feel very sorry for anyone who pays that much for an EQ plugin.


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## jamwerks (Jan 4, 2019)

This technology might become a common place to all digital eq's in a few years.

These inicial high prices are a way of getting max bucks from the wealthy hard-hitters, before maybe selling it for half that a year from now to the rest of us.


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## novaburst (Jan 4, 2019)

best EQ in the business and there free and can be well trained.

https://www.shutterstock.com/image-vector/ear-icon-vector-drawing-illustration-1082817194


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## joyneski (Jan 4, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> I've almost pulled the trigger on that one just for the simple ability to select certain pitches.


Just pulled the trigger on it ($21 from everyplugin, but I think there's a 'halfoff' discount coupon on quite a few websites) after seeing that keyboard feature. Typing in khz to try and get pitches is a workflow killer for me.


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## JEPA (Jan 13, 2019)

Francis Bourre said:


> The target is for high fidelity mastering with this pre-post non-ringing phased aligned algorithm. So for most of us it doesn't make sense.



they messed up and apologised for misleading press information:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-products-coming-soon/1240270-maat-theqorange-2.html
43
_
Dear Mastering and Audio Engineers,

I am Friedemann Tischmeyer, mastering engineer and the founder of MAAT.digital. We at MAAT had a misleading communication and I would like to shed some light on this and excuse for that.

Reissuing the gorgeous Algorithmix tools is one of the many reasons why I founded MAAT. I have used the Algorithmix LP PEQ Orange alongside other Algorithmix tools on a daily basis for more than 15 years. On more than 1000 of my releases, it became an essential tool in my mastering chain. Long before I started MAAT, I searched around on the EQ plug-in market to find a replacement due to the many requests of my students asking for gear recommendations. I couldn’t find an alternative, which is why we went on this long journey to re-issue the Orange EQ in a new look and with new functions to make it even better.

The reason why thEQorange is so special for me is its ability to sound “correct” and natural when I remove resonances and clean up the lower midrange when compared to other EQs.
Suddenly the mix seems to appear lighter and comes out from the loudspeakers with more ease so that it gets ready for subsequent treatments which I do either with the PEQ Red or my analog mastering chain.

However, I always looked on that project from my passionate audiophile user point of view rather than a pure technical or analytic view. I have actually no clue why it is the case that thEQorange sounds different from other surgical LP EQs used for such tasks. I was wondering about it but not asking for the reason as I am no DSP guru anyway. And here comes the accident: Due to a very high workload in my new studio with an 80h working week in a mix with crazy stuff happening in my private life, I didn’t get the opportunity to work with Oliver to prepare the campaign for thEQorange release. Despite it being my responsibility as the CEO of MAAT to approve all information used before release, I simply didn´t find the spare time for this which in turn caused the publication of misleading technical information regarding the pre-ringing behavior of thEQorange. “No pre-ringing” is basically bull****, please excuse us for the release of this wrong information.

My dear colleague Bob Katz asked me to look deeper into this and finally I found some time within the last two weeks to investigate the technical aspects of the EQ design with the help of Dr. Hatje (the DSP programmer) and Dr. Musialik (the DSP algorithm architect). It gave me a full picture of the facts: thEQorange is a forward/backward-based linear-phase EQ and it does have pre-ringing by definition, like every linear-phase equalizer. “Why it sounds to me better than any other linear-phase EQ I tested so far?” I asked the experts. The reason for that might be the chosen method of implementing linear-phase filters, the refined signal windowing, the extreme accuracy of calculations, consideration of psychoacoustics … probably a great combination of all. The development and optimization of details for the Orange algorithm took many months of intensive mathematical simulations, programming, and audio tests. 

Both of us, Oliver and I, hate misleading marketing messages which can be found throughout the world of audio too often and - as I love MAAT, and what we do and will continue doing in the future - I promise that such an error will never happen again.

One final thought may be allowed: I purchased the Algorithmix PEQ Orange for crazy sum of €1,200 back in the day and every penny was worth it. The current price of $990 is also at a premium but it´s definitely still worth every penny. As a licensee of the original code, we are bound to royalty agreements and the specialists involved into this project are top scale professionals. A surgical EQ is a tool, mastering engineers spend usually more setup time on than with any other tool in their chain. I am very happy with the outcome, as the new UI makes it faster and easier to set up. Now, thEQorange also saves my time while improving the sound quality. And even if it saves only a few minutes for every song, thEQorange pays for itself pretty fast.

Anyways, thEQorange is a specialized tool for pros who want to make a difference, and despite other companies having devaluated the perception of the value of software, we think that everybody has the freedom of choice to drive a Fiat or a Ferrari or -- to use another metaphor -- every wine drinker has the free choice between Trader Joe’s or a Haut Médoc.

Once again, sorry for creating confusion! And cheers with a good wine 

Friedemann Tischmeyer_


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## OMas (Feb 11, 2019)

jamwerks said:


> This technology might become a common place to all digital eq's in a few years.
> 
> These inicial high prices are a way of getting max bucks from the wealthy hard-hitters, before maybe selling it for half that a year from now to the rest of us.



Hey Jamwerks,

Unlikely, at least from MAAT. As has been mentioned previously in this thread, two-pass LP EQ are an absolute bear to create. This product was originally built to compete w/the Weiss LP EQ hardware, with many more features and a lower price.

For Dietz and Gerhard, folks who create instruments and do scoring respectively, sometimes you need a tool with particular capabilities. thEQorange is for those who can justify the addition to their kit of a high purity PEQ.

OMas

P.S. - I’m part of the MAAT crew, so I’m a bit biased.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 11, 2019)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> there are hardware EQs worth $10,000



Obviously I haven't heard every EQ, but the best analog one I've used is Millennia Media's, and it's $4K for two channels (I have the same thing in their channel strip). $10K seems a little excessive, but okay...

The best digital one I've tried is Waves Linear Phase EQ, the hardware one they came out with in the early naughts. I reviewed it for Mix, I think. It could add huge boosts to complicated sources like piano without sounding EQ-ed. Is their plug-in the same thing? Dunno, but it isn't $1K and it's *very* good.


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