# Are MIRx and MIR the best options for VSL instruments?



## Paul T McGraw (Feb 14, 2017)

I have a LARGE collection of VSL instruments, which I am trying to use effectively. I am gradually improving my MIDI skills, but I still have only very slight mixing and engineering skills.

I own MIRx and all four of the venues for it. I bought it thinking that since it was done by the VSL people, and was based on the VSL MIR technology, that it would be an ideal solution for a novice with mixing like myself.

So, did I make the right choice? Is MIRx the best choice?

I have doubts about how to proceed. Experienced VSL users please advise.


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## Symfoniq (Feb 14, 2017)

Reverb is really subjective. You'll get as many opinions as there are reverbs.

So here's mine. 

If you like the results you are getting with MIRx, you shouldn't second-guess your decision. Stop reading this now, and go make lots of music.

If you're still reading, I own most of VSL's libraries. I also owned MIR Pro for a couple of years. I eventually sold MIR Pro and now use a mix of algorithmic and convolution reverbs (Nimbus/Pro R/VerbSuite) for my VSL and other virtual instruments.

I liked MIR Pro more in theory than practice. The interface was nifty. It was an impressive piece of engineering. But I never really got along with the sound. It just wasn't pleasing to my ears. Again, this is all my opinion.

I'm really pleased with the ability of modern algorithmic reverbs like Nimbus and Pro R to place my dry samples into a space. I think they do this better than MIR Pro. But your ears might tell you differently.


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## Arbee (Feb 14, 2017)

My reply is totally subjective, so please accept in that context. I use MIR for positioning instruments and adding the "first layer of space before reverb". But, partly due to my personal taste and partly due to what my ears tell me, I rarely use the largest halls and find myself drawn to the Studios & Sound Stages room pack 90% of the time (the smallest studios in fact, although Teldex is good). I then add reverb to taste (I really happen to like their Hybrid Reverb, the original version). I find this approach also works really well with SM instruments as an effective "multi layered" spatial approach.

Not sure if that helps whatsoever.....


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Feb 14, 2017)

Arbee said:


> My reply is totally subjective, so please accept in that context. I use MIR for positioning instruments and adding the "first layer of space before reverb". But, partly due to my personal taste and partly due to what my ears tell me, I rarely use the largest halls and find myself drawn to the Studios & Sound Stages room pack 90% of the time (the smallest studios in fact, although Teldex is good). I then add reverb to taste (I really happen to like their Hybrid Reverb, the original version). I find this approach also works really well with SM instruments as an effective "multi layered" spatial approach.
> 
> Not sure if that helps whatsoever.....


My sentiment almost exactly. 

I own almost all VSL products. Ive had much more luck using VSL in smaller studio like situations and it works great.

After buying spitfires orchestral libraries, i am quite convinced I could never achieve the same big hall sound with VSL. It felt like a losing battle which is why I picked up spitfire. Having both in the arsenal is ideal for me.


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## Arbee (Feb 14, 2017)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> My sentiment almost exactly.
> 
> I own almost all VSL products. Ive had much more luck using VSL in smaller studio like situations and it works great.
> 
> After buying spitfires orchestral libraries, i am quite convinced I could never achieve the same big hall sound with VSL. It felt like a losing battle which is why I picked up spitfire. Having both in the arsenal is ideal for me.


Interesting, I picked up 8dio's Adagietto for the same reason. I don't use "big hall sound" very often (at the moment anyway) and Adagietto filled that gap nicely.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 14, 2017)

Paul, I only have and use MIRx Teldex Stage for my VSL instruments such as the flugelhorn. I do not use the Teldex Stage for reverb but for placement on stage then turn the reverb down until I almost don't even hear it anymore then use East West Spaces for my actual reverb and room stimulation. With this I can blend VSL with anything including Cinesamples and Spitfire.


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 14, 2017)

Very interesting replies. There is so much that I admire about the way VSL does things, but as I hear demos of the latest Berlin Brass (or strings) or most of the latest wet products I am jealous of their natural room ambience. Even with my non-existent mixing skills I have tried the two reverb approach (ER + tail) and find my ears seem to prefer even my ignorant attempts to just using MIRx. It sounds like others have had the same experience. 

I wish someone had a truly brilliant solution to make my VSL isntruments sound like they are in a real space, because I love the instruments, the programming and the VI Pro software.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 14, 2017)

And "hear" is the VSL Euphonium mixed with Cinesamples Tuba and Horn a2 to create an euphonium ensemble. It's in the 2nd half but uses the same technique.


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 14, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Paul, I only have and use MIRx Teldex Stage for my VSL instruments such as the flugelhorn. I do not use the Teldex Stage for reverb but for placement on stage then turn the reverb down until I almost don't even hear it anymore then use East West Spaces for my actual reverb and room stimulation. With this I can blend VSL with anything including Cinesamples and Spitfire.




The name really fits in this case, it is a Beautiful Flugelhorn clip. Which of the many QL Spaces settings are you using? I own QL Spaces and will give it a try/


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 14, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> And "hear" is the VSL Euphonium mixed with Cinesamples Tuba and Horn a2 to create an euphonium ensemble. It's in the 2nd half but uses the same technique.




Nice. I love the VSL euphonium, and this clip sounds wonderful. Which QL Spaces setting are you using? Any special wet/dry settings?


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## Rodney Money (Feb 14, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Very interesting replies. There is so much that I admire about the way VSL does things, but as I hear demos of the latest Berlin Brass (or strings) or most of the latest wet products I am jealous of their natural room ambience. Even with my non-existent mixing skills I have tried the two reverb approach (ER + tail) and find my ears seem to prefer even my ignorant attempts to just using MIRx. It sounds like others have had the same experience.
> 
> I wish someone had a truly brilliant solution to make my VSL isntruments sound like they are in a real space, because I love the instruments, the programming and the VI Pro software.


Another thing I have done that is unfortunately not in my flugelhorn example is to add Cinesamples' room tone which is free to the mix. It certainly starts adding the illusion that the instruments are in a room. I added that recently in my Meditation piece in the members composition section of the forum. I will post it here also:


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## Rodney Money (Feb 14, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Nice. I love the VSL euphonium, and this clip sounds wonderful. Which QL Spaces setting are you using? Any special wet/dry settings?


I will check for you tommorow when I'm in my studio, my friend.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 14, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> The name really fits in this case, it is a Beautiful Flugelhorn clip. Which of the many QL Spaces settings are you using? I own QL Spaces and will give it a try/


I will check tommorow as well, my friend. Plus I want to try to add some room tone to it also.


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## Chandler (Feb 14, 2017)

I was asking a similar question in another thread. Recently I wanted to test new workflows, plugins, etc. so I wrote something really fast and mixed it. The first example is using MIRx Teledex. The 2nd is using a new reverb I'm beta testing. The 3rd is the same reverb, but with layered strings. All of them are using the VSL SE orchestral and chamber strings with a little Valhallaroom on top.



To me MIR has too much highend and I actually prefer the reverb I made myself. In general I think VSL needs some EQ to tame its sound in some cases(which I didn't do here). Getting a lush hollywood sound like some other libraries might not be possible, but I'm sure it can sound much better than what you get out of the box.


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## leon chevalier (Feb 14, 2017)

Hello Paul,
I use to used a full VSL set up with mirX but I was very frustrated to not be able to place where I want the instrument and by the high CPU usage.

Now I'm not using vsl anymore but still using totally dry imstrumemt like wallander, sample modeling or Chris hein, and I have fantastic result with eareverb 2. It's very light on CPU and you can place the instrument where you like on the sound stage. Their is a demo version so it’s worth trying it!


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## Beat Kaufmann (Feb 18, 2017)

*Are MIRx and MIR the best options for VSL instruments?*

VSL decided to record their samples dry. This leads to a huge amount of possibilities for using them. In the meantime you are a bit lost when you are not able to mix what you want. So for beginners and first results "yes" is probably the right answer to the question above. 
As already mentioned somewhere above here MIR is a complex piece of software with a huge amount of parameters which can be adjusted... Nevertheless and strangely enough the results always sound "MIR-like". So for me MIR is a bit like chips (=music) with classic ketchup (=MIR), chips with curry ketchup, chips with hot ketchup, mild ketchup, taco ketchup, peper ketchup,... but mixing without MIR is also chips with quark and fresh herbs, chips with Majonnaise, chips with sauce Hollandaise... 


Best
Beat


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## Deleted member 422019 (Feb 18, 2017)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> *Are MIRx and MIR the best options for VSL instruments?*
> 
> VSL decided to record their samples dry. This leads to a huge amount of possibilities for using them. In the meantime you are a bit lost when you are not able to mix what you want. So for beginners and first results "yes" is probably the right answer to the question above.
> But as already mentioned somewhere above here MIR is a complex piece of software with a huge amount of parameters which can be adjusted... Nevertheless and strangely enough the results always sound MIR-like. So MIR is a bit like chips (=music) with classic ketchup (=MIR), chips with curry ketchup, chips with hot ketchup, mild ketchup, taco ketchup, peper ketchup,... Mixing without MIR is also chips with quark and fresh herbs, chips with Majonnaise, chips with sauce Hollandaise...
> ...



I just got MIR for the VSL Cube and am wondering why I waited so long. It gives the samples a space that my other reverb, which has a great sound, couldn't give it. The word I would use to describe MIR's impact on the samples is "natural". It sounds far more natural than my Yamaha SPX2000, which is a fine reverb, yet doesn't create a "space around the sample" as MIR does.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Feb 18, 2017)

jsg said:


> I just got MIR for the VSL Cube and am wondering why I waited so long. It gives the samples a space that my other reverb, which has a great sound, couldn't give it. The word I would use to describe MIR's impact on the samples is "natural"...



I totally agree - as long as you only play some instruments. As sson as you play with a large orchestra it can end in a special sound.
Listen to this typical example.
I believe it is why the room IR is calculated a lot of times in each instrument so that the typical room-colour of the IR beginns to dominate the final sound more and more. 
After using MIR for all your mixes over a longer time you will probably understand my "ketchup-story" above in a better way. Playing all the music through MIR lets all your music sound "MIR-like" - individual mixes would sound more interesting. Now, this does not mean not to use MIR anymore. I use for example MIRx in my mixes when I need instruments which shall sound far away. This works very fine with MIRx.

If you like here you can listen to some different VSL-examples mixed *without* MIR (on the right)


Best 
Beat


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## Deleted member 422019 (Feb 18, 2017)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> I totally agree - as long as you only play some instruments. As sson as you play with a large orchestra it can end in a special sound.
> Listen to this typical example.
> I believe it is why the room IR is calculated a lot of times in each instrument so that the typical room-colour of the IR beginns to dominate the final sound more and more.
> After using MIR for all your mixes over a longer time you will probably understand my "ketchup-story" above in a better way. Playing all the music through MIR lets all your music sound "MIR-like" - individual mixes would sound more interesting. Now, this does not mean not to use MIR anymore. I use for example MIRx in my mixes when I need instruments which shall sound far away. This works very fine with MIRx.
> ...




My experience is that this is true with all reverbs, they call color the sound in their own way. And, I love ketchup, particularly on potatoes!
Jerry


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 18, 2017)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> *Are MIRx and MIR the best options for VSL instruments?*
> 
> VSL decided to record their samples dry. This leads to a huge amount of possibilities for using them. In the meantime you are a bit lost when you are not able to mix what you want. So for beginners and first results "yes" is probably the right answer to the question above.
> As already mentioned somewhere above here MIR is a complex piece of software with a huge amount of parameters which can be adjusted... Nevertheless and strangely enough the results always sound "MIR-like". So for me MIR is a bit like chips (=music) with classic ketchup (=MIR), chips with curry ketchup, chips with hot ketchup, mild ketchup, taco ketchup, peper ketchup,... but mixing without MIR is also chips with quark and fresh herbs, chips with Majonnaise, chips with sauce Hollandaise...
> ...



Thanks Beat. I really appreciate your tutorials, and have learned a lot from them. My best results (to my ears) so far are to use MIRx on each instrument, set to a mix of about 40 (which is about 30%) and then add QL Spaces. QL Spaces has seperate custom Southern California Hall settings for brass, strings and woodwinds, and that seems to work well. (Thanks @Rodney Money for suggesting this setup.) This approach seems to work best with the Teledex studio setting of MIRx, but it is also OK with the other rooms (I have all four.)

However, I am still not completely happy with my results. I do not hear the left/right imaging of the instruments I expect. For example I should clearly hear horns on the far left and trombones on the far right. Instead everything seems more in the center.

Also my complete sound image is still a bit disappointing to me. I have been listening to VSL demos like "Adventures on Earth" and "Adagio for Strings" and "Rite of Spring" and leaving aside the professional level of MIDI programming, I am trying to learn how to get a similar spatialization and failing. I have also been listening to demos for string libraries like CSS and Berlin Strings and brass libraries like Berlin Brass. The allure of the sound of these wet libraries is tempting.


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 18, 2017)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> I totally agree - as long as you only play some instruments. As sson as you play with a large orchestra it can end in a special sound.
> Listen to this typical example.
> I believe it is why the room IR is calculated a lot of times in each instrument so that the typical room-colour of the IR beginns to dominate the final sound more and more.
> After using MIR for all your mixes over a longer time you will probably understand my "ketchup-story" above in a better way. Playing all the music through MIR lets all your music sound "MIR-like" - individual mixes would sound more interesting. Now, this does not mean not to use MIR anymore. I use for example MIRx in my mixes when I need instruments which shall sound far away. This works very fine with MIRx.
> ...



Both are absolutely wonderful. The classical pieces by bSO are amazing. However, I must admit I prefer the sound of your mix. The Holberg Suite is simply brilliant. Did you use the mix as described in your tutorial? Using some compression, slight stero enhancement and then a final algorythmic reverb?


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## Rodney Money (Feb 18, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> The name really fits in this case, it is a Beautiful Flugelhorn clip. Which of the many QL Spaces settings are you using? I own QL Spaces and will give it a try/


Paul, I used Hamburg Cathedral, I believe the 2.2 setting which tends to have a sound reminiscing of Spitfire's Air. Also Paul if you want more panning simply dragged the panner farther left or right on the mixer. I even drag down the MIRx reverb slider almost down to 20% so Spaces can be the room and tail while MIRx Teldex Stage can provide the placement. I tend to dial the reverb on Spaces back down to around 12:00, and if you want even less room and just a sheen on top you can place a low cut on the Spaces reverb around 600 db for treble instruments such as trumpets, flugelhorn, or flutes. Berlin Church is also good, and of course the So. Cal. presets for a brighter sound.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Feb 21, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Both are absolutely wonderful. The classical pieces on by bSO are amazing. However, I must admit I prefer the sound of your mix...


Yes, Andreas Wins (bSO) is a master of using VSL-Samples. He had some lessons (given by me) "How to Mix samples". But finally he decided to use MIR...
The sound of his MIR-music does not seem special at a first glance. But if you compare it with "real recordings"...
Listen to this short file: Analyse_Donau.wav...
As I already mentioned above you only get such a colored sound with a lot of instruments. My explanation is: With each instrument and its position MIR calculates several room IRs into it. This means that a certain Room is probably some 100 times calculated into a whole orchestra, while the "common use of a convolution reverb" for three depths only 3 times is calculated into the same orchestra. So the typical room color appears more and more with those 100 and more used IRs until it is recognizable so clear. Once more, this is my explanation, why MIR could sound so (negative) colorfull with a lot of instruments but not with small ensembles. One good help to suppress these "colors" is not to use a 50%- but only 20-30%-wet/dry ratio with MIR.



Paul T McGraw said:


> ...The Holberg Suite is simply brilliant. Did you use the mix as described in your tutorial? Using some compression, slight stero enhancement and then a final algorythmic reverb?


I only used the Convolution-Reverb of Samplitude in 2005-2008 - nothing more (IR=small Hall).

Best
Beat


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## Dietz (Feb 21, 2017)

Beat Kaufmann said:


> This means that a certain Room is probably some 100 times calculated into a whole orchestra



... pretty much like in case of a real recording.  This would be true if you were using the same single IR over and over again. 



Beat Kaufmann said:


> this is my explanation, why MIR could sound so (negative) colorfull with a lot of instruments but not with small ensembles. One good help to suppress these "colors" is not to use a 50%- but only 20-30%-wet/dry ratio with MIR.



In don't want to go into a discussion with you, Beat, as I know that you dislike MIR for some reason or the other. Just let me say: The main problem people seem to have with MIR is that they expect it to be a monolithic fire-and-forget-solution right out-of-the box. But MIR's default setup just tries to mimic the natural amount of the direct (unreverberated) signal which the main microphones would capture on their position in the hall. 

In case of an actual recording session we typically mix in a bit of spot microphones to overcome the "wetness" of this main microphone array. In MIR, this approach simply means to change the wet/dry ratio. 

In other words: There's nothing wrong with starting a MIR project with "just" 30% wet signal instead of the default 50%. After all, it's just _one_ fader you need to move to achieve this. 

... and if there's some overwhelming frequency range in a certain MIR Venue, there's always the RoomEQ (which affects the wet signal only) to tame it.


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 21, 2017)

Dietz said:


> ... pretty much like in case of a real recording.  This would be true if you were using the same single IR over and over again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi @Dietz I am surprised you did not jump into this thread earlier. After all, MIR and MIRx are your creations. And I thank you for MIRx, which I own, and enjoy using with my large collection of VSL instruments. Some instruments work better for me than others, but as a whole I love the VSL products. For example, I love the VSL horn, and the Dimension Brass horns. I have less affection for the Trumpet in C and the Dimension Trumpets.

I heard two pieces recently that used VSL instruments and Altiverb that sounded really good. What is your opinion regarding Altiverb for an amateur like myself?

Any plans to expand MIRx to include more venues? I am not an audio engineer, and don't really have the desire to spend the time needed to learn. I want to spend my time studying and writing music.


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## Dietz (Feb 22, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Hi @Dietz I am surprised you did not jump into this thread earlier.



:-D ... usually, I try to stay as private as possible. I've been given the impression several times here that there is a tendency to find it uncool when developers chime in. Stating facts and keeping things in perspective is all I wanted to achieve with my previous message.



Paul T McGraw said:


> What is your opinion regarding Altiverb for an amateur like myself?



AltiVerb is the Mother Of All Convolution plug-ins, in a way.  Its library is a huge source for IRs from very diverse acoustic environments. In the right hands, it is a powerful reverb engine. - I have a hard time to compare AltiVerb with MIR as we're talking about different products with very different approaches and goals. The only thing in common is that they both rely on convolution processes, actually.



Paul T McGraw said:


> Any plans to expand MIRx to include more venues?



In a nutshell (and unofficially): Yes.  As a matter of fact I'm working on a collection of new MIRx settings this very moment. This is a quite tedious task, though (... more than 400 hand-crafted presets! :-P), so please don't expect a release before spring.

Kind regards,


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 22, 2017)

Dietz said:


> :-D ... usually, I try to stay as private as possible. I've been given the impression several times here that there is a tendency to find it uncool when developers chime in. Stating facts and keeping things in perspective is all I wanted to achieve with my previous message.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you @Dietz. I am excited to hear that you are working on more MIRx venues! I really enjoy MIRx because it keeps things simple for me.

I am just one guy and do not speak for the forum, but I wish developers like yourself would be more willing to post on the forum. There are jerks and boorish people in every group, including this forum. But hopefully developers will not let the "bad actors" spoil things for everyone.

One suggestion that I have for VSL is to create more instructional videos. The existing VSL instructional videos are of very high quality and are very informative. But more are needed. I know videos would not pay the bills and salaries (actually you probably could sell them) but it would be great for someone like myself to be able to learn from professionals such as yourself. Their are lots of potential subjects for more videos, but for example, using MIRx for spatialization, plus another reverb for tail, as has been discussed in this thread. Learning to do that has really helped me get a sound that pleases me. A video on different ways to use MIRx, and combine it with non-VSL products, would surely help customers and probably help convince more customers to buy the product.

Thanks again for the great products, and thanks for participating on this forum.


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## Arbee (Feb 22, 2017)

MIR + MIRacle is of course the "room + tail" option already available in MIR, and works well. For some reason though, perhaps tradition and habit, my brain copes best by using MIR for the room and adding the tail separately and later as part of the overall mix.


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## ptram (May 11, 2017)

Now that I've used it, I find the MIR approach more natural, and the more traditional convolution reverbs more hyper realistic. MIR sounds to me as simply instruments in a room. From there, I can tune it a bit down to increase the spot mics level, and add a final reverb (better if an algorhytmic one) to add color.

In the end, it saves a lot of work in positioning instruments with the old pan, multiple early reflections, send levels technique. And the result seems to me much more natural (at least, compared to what I could achieve before).

Paolo


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## FabioA (May 25, 2017)

Chandler said:


> I was asking a similar question in another thread. Recently I wanted to test new workflows, plugins, etc. so I wrote something really fast and mixed it. The first example is using MIRx Teledex. The 2nd is using a new reverb I'm beta testing. The 3rd is the same reverb, but with layered strings. All of them are using the VSL SE orchestral and chamber strings with a little Valhallaroom on top.
> 
> 
> 
> To me MIR has too much highend and I actually prefer the reverb I made myself. In general I think VSL needs some EQ to tame its sound in some cases(which I didn't do here). Getting a lush hollywood sound like some other libraries might not be possible, but I'm sure it can sound much better than what you get out of the box.



By the way the first mix sounds far more real. I can feel a real space in it. Let's also listen also to the re-bowing at 0:07 and 0:12. Same samples. same programming, totally different results.
In my opinion, convolution reverb has this power to transfer no only the room properities to the convolved sample, but also an halo of realism. But to do that should be almost a "100% wet" convolution. And that comes with some risks and consequences.


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## Sami (Oct 1, 2018)

Dietz said:


> please don't expect a release before spring.



I truly love you guys so please don’t take this the wrong way, but I have been waiting for AU3 support on VEPro -which was "high on the priority list" for over a year now so I am afraid that this might mean "spring 2024"


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## hdsmile (Oct 1, 2018)

Rodney Money said:


> Paul, I only have and use MIRx Teldex Stage for my VSL instruments such as the flugelhorn. I do not use the Teldex Stage for reverb but for placement on stage then turn the reverb down until I almost don't even hear it anymore then use East West Spaces for my actual reverb and room stimulation. With this I can blend VSL with anything including Cinesamples and Spitfire.



@Rodney, very interesting, I also would like to try this way, the question is do you use EW Spaces at every instance on VEPro (per one instrument) or you send each instrument to Master Bus where Spaces is located and used for all instruments on the stage?


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## Rodney Money (Oct 2, 2018)

hdsmile said:


> @Rodney, very interesting, I also would like to try this way, the question is do you use EW Spaces at every instance on VEPro (per one instrument) or you send each instrument to Master Bus where Spaces is located and used for all instruments on the stage?


One per instrument, and then when I know it's going to be a large a mix I tend to dial the reverb back per instrument. I used this technique after the halfway mark creating an euphonium choir:


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## hdsmile (Oct 2, 2018)

I never understood how possible to use the same reverb, in our case 'EW Spaces' for each instances.
I try to configure MIRpro (Teldex Studio v2 Large) instead of MIRx and I would like to find a way to not use the Spaces at each instances, but I even don't know if it's possible.
I'm just looking for a possibility that allows me to use MirPro only as a tool for placing instruments and then use one 'EW Spaces' for the whole orchestra but I'm also not sure if that's the right way.

My sw/hw setup:
*Slave PC*: VEPro 6, MIR Pro / Windows 10/128GB-DDR4/Asus Z10PE-D16 WS / 2x Xeon E5 / 128GB DDR4 - via thunderbolt connection to Mac PC: macOS Sierra / Logic X Pro


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## Dietz (Oct 3, 2018)

hdsmile said:


> [...]
> I'm just looking for a possibility that allows me to use MirPro only as a tool for placing instruments and then use one 'EW Spaces' for the whole orchestra [...]



One way to achieve this would be to reduce the length of MIR's reverb tail to about 250 or 300 ms to keep all the crucial positioning information intact, without actually producing reverb. Add some reverb tail (algorithmic reverb would be my first choice) for a perfectly valid "hybrid" MIR setup. 

Another approach is to use MIR Pro into Dry Solo-mode which makes it a highly flexible Ambisonics-pannig device.


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## hdsmile (Oct 5, 2018)

Dietz said:


> One way to achieve this would be to reduce the length of MIR's reverb tail to about 250 or 300 ms to keep all the crucial positioning information intact, without actually producing reverb. Add some reverb tail (algorithmic reverb would be my first choice) for a perfectly valid "hybrid" MIR setup.
> 
> Another approach is to use MIR Pro into Dry Solo-mode which makes it a highly flexible Ambisonics-pannig device.



It sounds great, but how actually to do it, I don't quite understand , e.g. my entire VEPro project consists of instances per each instrument and Mir Pro as plug-in, where should I place EW Spaces or some algorithmic reverb, per each instrument or Master Bus or where? and just wondering how to use the MIR Pro in Dry Solo-mode, never heard of it before?
Would be great to see these setup in action or in some pics, if possible

thanks


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## Dietz (Oct 7, 2018)

hdsmile said:


> It sounds great, but how actually to do it, I don't quite understand , e.g. my entire VEPro project consists of instances per each instrument and Mir Pro as plug-in, where should I place EW Spaces or some algorithmic reverb, per each instrument or Master Bus or where? and just wondering how to use the MIR Pro in Dry Solo-mode, never heard of it before?
> Would be great to see these setup in action or in some pics, if possible
> 
> thanks



MIR Pro's manual contains an extensive tutorial section, covering several "hybrid reverb" approaches (starting on p. 40). Personally I prefer a simple AUX-send scheme from each "MIRed" channel to an algorithmic reverb of my choice, but especially for smaller, homogeneous arrangements one single "global" reverb strapped across the master bus can already do wonders. (... in case of the latter example, using a plug-in that offers independent volume controls for dry and wet signal components will make this easier to handle - much like MIR Pro's own add-on reverb "MIRacle" does.)

"Dry Solo" is a dedicated button in MIR Pro's Output section and hard to miss, actually:




​
HTH,


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## hdsmile (Oct 7, 2018)

Dietz said:


> Personally I prefer a simple AUX-send scheme from each "MIRed" channel to an algorithmic reverb of my choice, but especially for smaller, homogeneous arrangements one single "global" reverb strapped across the master bus can already do wonders. (... in case of the latter example, using a plug-in that offers independent volume controls for dry and wet signal components will make this easier to handle - much like MIR Pro's own add-on reverb "MIRacle" does.)
> HTH,



your method sound great and theoretically it should coincide with my desires, but as I said above I use only each instrument per instance and to my shame I'm really don't understand how it should work with only *one single* "global" reverb across the master bus? So..., in my case, should I use the reverb on each Instance-Master Bus?
Could you please look at my pic's, somehow I'm doubt that I doing this correctly:(


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## Dietz (Oct 7, 2018)

Dear Hdsmile,

I think this takes us beyond the informal chat of an open meeting place like VI Control now.  Maybe we should continue this conversation on VSL's own forum.

(... to begin with, I don't quite understand why you use a new instance of VE Pro for each instrument, why you use the stripped-down, generic plug-in version of MIR Pro and not its full version built-in in VE Pro, or why you would try to use additional algorithmic reverb of just 200 ms length ... you see, lots of topics to discuss. 8-) ... )

See you there,

/Dietz


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## hdsmile (Oct 7, 2018)

Dietz said:


> Dear Hdsmile,
> I think this takes us beyond the informal chat of an open meeting place like VI Control now.  Maybe we should continue this conversation on VSL's own forum.
> /Dietz



I'm not sure that's a good idea to move as to VSL's forum, I guess many users here will also find something useful, isn't it...? and if you don't mind I would like to continue here, please



Dietz said:


> I don't quite understand why you use a new instance of VE Pro for each instrument, why you use the stripped-down, generic plug-in version of MIR Pro and not its full version built-in in VE Pro, or why you would try to use additional algorithmic reverb



Sorry that I didn't say that I'm Logic user and there's not a big secret that one instance of VEPro per instrument works best in Logic and this has been repeated on forum many times.

Regarding why I use MIR Pro as plugin, well if I create separate VEPro instances per each instrument, then I couldn't place all instruments on a single MIR Pro venue stage.

Regarding why I wanna use additional reverb?
I'm proud owner of several reverb such as East West Space II and Nimbus from Exponential Audio -they are really extremely amazing stuff!
I like both of them and I would like to integrate them into a VEPro via MirPro or MIRx mode which I wanna use just for instruments placement.


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