# Is there any websites for Indie Games looking for composers?



## Hanu_H (Dec 9, 2013)

Hi all,

I would like to get into a Indie Game composing and was wondering if there is any kind of website where I could find games that are looking for a composer? Any advice about finding game developers would be nice.


Cheers,

-Hannes


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## R.Cato (Dec 9, 2013)

Hi Hannes,

I have written music for some Indie Games this year and I would try out gamedev.net or IndieDB. Haven't ever seen any game searching a composer, but sometimes you get a gig just with writing some mails. There are definitely some cool and talented folks around there. Made some good friends.

Little hint: Don't expect any game to see the day of release, because the minority of them does. Also it seems to be a habit for many Indie devs to just not reply to your mails even if they want to work together with you.

And please, don't work for free....thanks.

cheers,
Robin


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## Marius Masalar (Dec 9, 2013)

Hannes,

The most reliable method of getting indie game work is to go to indie game events in your city and meet people there.

Online, you're stuck cruising forums and leaving posts everywhere offering your services—just like the other 150 composers who had that innovative idea this week.

It's a crowded space and most indie game developers value a unique voice and a terrific collaborative experience over all else. Your skills, degrees, feature credits, etc. are irrelevant.

If you're fun to work with, creative with the tools at your disposal, and willing and able to really invest yourself in the game's world as they have then you'll find yourself attracting their attention.

Good luck and have fun—indie game projects are risky, as Robin has pointed out, but they're often tremendously rewarding from a personal/creative perspective!


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## MA-Simon (Dec 10, 2013)

I did the whole game music-search about 4-5 years ago.

Moddb/Indiedb <- expect no paid work _here, ever._
Mostly just kids with a lot of free time. 

For more serious projects there is: Tigsource.com
But even there you will have to fight off about 10 -for free- composers per day, so expect nothing.


I just tried it and joined a couple of IT & Informatic students for a local gamejam near my university. Super fun to work with. (I mostly did Art though). We won . 
That was about 1 year ago, they still come to me with cool & paid projects.
I love these guys!


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## Phrosty (Dec 10, 2013)

Just wanted to chime in that I've also been cruising IndieDB.net and gamedev.net for approximately 3 months now. My experience hasn't been very impressive at all and I can confirm all of the above mentioned situations.
So I am also planning on going to the next (indie-) game convention in Germany to see what happens when talking to devs in person.


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## Hawkes (Dec 11, 2013)

In the past I tried some of the forums mentioned here. Nothing came of them.
Making a big list of smaller devs and sending out tons of emails is what finally got me some gigs. The first was free (free game - nobody got paid). I had plenty of free time back then, and it was a fun project. The first paid job came about because I had hi-lighted in my email that my specialty was blending early music influences in soundtracks. That was exactly what they were looking for. When it was time for them to make their next game they asked me to do it.

If there's a type of music that you're especially good at and passionate about, then look for devs who do games that will need that type of music.


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## TMRodrigues (Dec 11, 2013)

My objective in the future is to start working on games too, so this thread is of great interest to me.

I'd love to know how people aproach an indie developer to get a gig. It seems that the e-mail route is the most common one?


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## SamGarnerStudios (Dec 11, 2013)

I can relate to the posts about struggling with browsing the forums. I've been doing it for about 6 months. The following has happened

- I've gotten one serious nibble that payed, but it didn't happen. I'm pretty sure they went with someone else. 
- Done several games for some people for free, fun, music to add to my demo reel, but nothing too serious. But I don't advertise my music for free, or try to undercut anyone for free, I only did it if the music would be beneficial to me to do, and/or the project looked fun. This was during the summer when I had more free time. Been there, done that, no more free stuff, good experience though. 
- A lot of those games are run by kids in high school or people doing it as a hobby, and that can be frustrating. 

I'll still browse the forums to see if anything serious comes along, which is rare, and I'll throw my info out there occasionally just because. You definitely have to fight off the people that advertise like this. "COMPOSER LOOKING FOR WORK! WILL WORK FOR FREEEEEEE!!!!!!!" and that's frustrating. 


My .02cents.


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## R. Soul (Dec 11, 2013)

Since this appears to be one long thread of things that doesn't work, I'll just add my bit to it.

I thought that another way to get to the gigs was to get a basic job within a game company, so I started working as a Games tester.

So far I've worked at Microsoft, TT games (LEGO), SEGA, Creative assembly (Total war) and EA and apart from working on a small indie game through a guy I met during one of those jobs, I've gotten absolutely nowhere.
Granted, at lot of it was probably wasted to start with as it wasn't directly with a developer, but regardless, it seems like another dead end road - poorly paid, short contract and the prospects are not what I previously anticipated. 
So after all this time, I'm still no cleverer in terms of finding a regular game composing gig.


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## SamGarnerStudios (Dec 11, 2013)

^ Its frustrating the multiple and very differing opinions I've gotten on this. Some people say DO QA, others say just focus on composing. It's another one of those things in music where every one has a success story that doesn't work for the next guy.


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## Jaap (Dec 11, 2013)

The last 2 years I have not been working in the game field due to personal circumstances, but I advertised always on indiegamer.com and also gamedev and went to GDC Europe and that kind of stuff and got some balls rolling.

My experience is/was that just be yourself, advertise yourself honest and post good reels and get some refferences that you can show and at least back then it generated always a few replies and potential paid jobs. Also then it was crowded with composers willing to work for free.
My experience is that serious companies know that they will have to pay for quality and a good relationship.
Another advice is to also get some knowledge about sound design, voice over and audio implementing (fmod, wwise, openal etc). If you don't have experience on that kind of stuff, just join a few mod projects to gain some experience that you can take into your work.

Most companies are more interested in you if you can show a variety of skills.


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## R.Cato (Dec 11, 2013)

MA-Simon @ Tue Dec 10 said:


> Moddb/Indiedb <- expect no paid work _here, ever._
> Mostly just kids with a lot of free time.



I would like to point out that I've experienced it rather different there. Especially with IndieDB.

Yes you're right there are some kids with a lot of free time, but in my opinion there are also many developers who are willing to pay for good music even if they don't know you at the beginning.
There are also lots of professional game studios relatively unknown but with good ideas and skills.
The first two mails I sent to devs I saw on IndieDB have both lead to well paid work. And no I am not talking about 10 bucks for each track. 

The first thing I always do when contacting Indie devs is not talking about music or if they already have a composer, but about the game, the concept, the visuals.....games which remind me of their game. I also only contact developer of games I really want to work for based on what I actually would want to play myself. After that even when they already have someone for the music I still get a new contact and probably even a "friend". At least that way they appreciate me and not the composer seeking work for getting some money.

But I totally agree on what Marius said regarding real life contacts. They are the best method to get good gigs in the game business.

As always these are just my little 2 cents I've experienced so far. Nothing to rely on if you think it's not worth it.


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## impressions (Dec 11, 2013)

the only real way to get a chance to compose for games, is to look very very hard. do research for companies in pre alpha stage, look in their website and see how they've progressed if its near sound implantation. then, if it is- go and ask them if they need. if you feel like this is your big break you could also compose something for them that will demonstrate how well you can contribute for them.

if you will send just for anyone you can, you will actually lower your chances(from experience), and waste time collecting them and maybe missing an opportunity that could arise 1 month later.


composing gigs are much harder to find than sound design gigs(which is why i do that too, to sustain). because of the saturated nature of the current market, and the lack of appreciation for quality, from the developers side.

but still, just on linkedIn, you can find new studios popping every day, which is amazing. so indie is still good for us, but you still need to look very hard in the sea of tens of thousands.

talking to people is brilliant, I think it will give a much clearer composer-developer connection.
but most of the people I've worked with preferred chat or email.

good luck! I would suggest another profession, but if you're like me, its needless to say.


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## Mike Marino (Dec 11, 2013)

If you go back about a 6-8 episodes of the SCOREcast podcast Tom Salta was their guest. He spoke about his path into game music and such. Might be worth a listen (or re-listen) if you've got some spare time. Really interesting stuff I thought.

- Mike


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## TMRodrigues (Dec 11, 2013)

Did exactly what you suggested Mike and was extremely pleased with what Tom Salta had to say.
Thank you for that info. o-[][]-o


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## ghostnote (Dec 12, 2013)

I'm on Indiedb since about 4 years and have my little blog there. I think it's a perfect place for young people who want to make some credits, but serious projects are rare. The main problem here is that young developers/composers always want to start with ambitious projects, sci-fi shooters, mmo's, etc... without any experience. Believe me, I've been there .

My advise? 

- Go to IndieDB/other sites and lookup good developers with smaller but original projects and ideas, sidescroller etc.
- Student Projects are another great way to expand your portfolio (great art and exposure), but those projects probably won't be released. 
- Make sure they have a GDD(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_design_document) and are at least near alpha stage. 
- check gamesites with job-boards and developers with own engines 
- Another way is to search for Machinimas (movies made INGAME).
- Don't place yourself in those job-boards or open a forum thread... get in touch with developers directly, PM/e-mail them and tell them why you are interested/the perfect fit for their game


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## IFM (Dec 12, 2013)

R.Cato @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> The first thing I always do when contacting Indie devs is not talking about music or if they already have a composer, but about the game, the concept, the visuals.....games which remind me of their game. I also only contact developer of games I really want to work for based on what I actually would want to play myself. After that even when they already have someone for the music I still get a new contact and probably even a "friend". At least that way they appreciate me and not the composer seeking work for getting some money.
> 
> But I totally agree on what Marius said regarding real life contacts. They are the best method to get good gigs in the game business.
> 
> As always these are just my little 2 cents I've experienced so far. Nothing to rely on if you think it's not worth it.



+1 on this. I just got hired on a game a couple of days ago thanks to a previous connection of mine plus am in the middle of a score for an animated short...both paying gigs and both from networking. 

I've gotten small mobile game gigs that paid from reaching out and talking about exactly how R.Cato put it. I got busy with other projects and haven't done a mobile game in a year but my rates have also gone up since I started out. 

I also hate seeing WILL WORK FOR FREE type of posts on those forums...pisses me off actually. Never work for free. If you are dealing with a company that has some money to invest in the game at all then get something...just adjust your rates accordingly. I've even gone as far as negotiating back end instead where I would release the music afterwards and I know I'll make more money that way...granted I have an established (albeit small) fan base but still the music will sell and I get paid. This may sound like I was working for free but in the end no because I retained the rights. A real game company will expect the work as a buyout. 

One more thing I'd like to add. Plan on working on projects that never see the light of day. Whether you are dealing with indies or pros the game world is volatile and projects get pulled in the blink of an eye.

Anyways I'm starting to sound like I know what I am talking about.  Good luck!!!

Chris


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## milesito (Dec 12, 2013)

It's great to see so many folks getting work on games…is there any benchmark on how much one can earn doing a video game? I mean, I'm sure something is better than nothing, but can one make a living doing game music?


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## Stephen Baysted (Dec 12, 2013)

One route into games (and not just indie ones) that is often overlooked is by working with Mod Teams on game mods. It is by its very nature, precarious, but no less so than working with Indies. 

Good luck!


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## ghostnote (Dec 12, 2013)

Stephen Baysted @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> One route into games (and not just indie ones) that is often overlooked is by working with Mod Teams on game mods. It is by its very nature, precarious, but no less so than working with Indies.



You're right, but there's almost never any compensation involved. What you can get is credits, great friendships and sometimes job offerings for sequels/other mods or indies. There're plenty of mods who've been so popular that the developers decided to rework it into a indie game title ("The Stanley Parable", "Dear Esther" or "Black Mesa". Where's the heart emote frederick? ).


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## Marius Masalar (Dec 12, 2013)

milesito @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> ...can one make a living doing game music?


Yes, it is possible. I make a living writing music almost exclusively for games, and I can name at least two others who do the same—so it can be done! :D

Also, I'm glad Stephen mentioned mods. I got started by working on mods and the experiences I gained there remain among my most valuable. Not to mention the fact that the teams I worked for often went on to become "real" developers making "real" games for which they subsequently hired me for "real" compensation.

Now...emails.

For the record, the #1 way to piss off a game developer? _Send them a composer email_. Nothing in the world annoys them more. Anecdotally, I can tell you that even relatively tiny mobile game developers receive at *least* one email per day from a hopeful composer.

It was disheartening, to say the least, to hear this from some of my most admired local devs over a beer one night. One of them went as far as to pull up a collection of such emails from his inbox and show me some examples. They were almost always poorly-written, self-centred, formulaic, etc.

Subsequently, I took an interest in this and had many conversations with bigger devs over Twitter and in person about how this looks from their end. Almost all of them said they prefer to discover composers organically and only two could recall examples where they actually hired someone from an email correspondence. Ouch.

My response was to point out to them that since there are so many of us around, and we need to do great things like eat, it's impossible for us to rely on organic discovery...so emails are necessary, at least to an extent.

That said, I've stopped sending them. At least, I've stopped sending solicitation emails. I correspond with devs about other things—Robin was 150% right about that being crucial.

Brief story: I emailed a developer two years ago to comment on some random aspect of their then-newly-released little game (appreciating an in-joke or something, I don't recall exactly) and received a short response. A year and a bit later, I get an email from them asking me to write music for the game—which had grown huge—because they had looked me up, enjoyed my work, and remembered me.

It's now the largest project I've ever been involved with and I'm working on more material for them to this day.

Which is to say...if you're going to email, make it personal, make it friendly, and focus on them, not you. If they care, they'll follow up and find out who you are.

Anyway, this is a fantastic discussion. Really happy to see game audio being talked about and considered more around here


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