# Balls on the chopping block...



## Ashermusic (Jul 1, 2009)

Well, I do not comment on people's posted work but as for the issue, it depends on you.

Having a director/producer with musical knowledge facilitates communication about your goals for the score, as we speak the same lingo and you can be pretty specific, which is certainly a plus for the composer, who after all, wants to make you happy.

If however, you cannot separate how you would compose it were you to do so from how the guy you hire is doing it to the point where you micro-manage each cue, then it becomes a minus.

I have experienced both. Heaven and hell.


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## madbulk (Jul 1, 2009)

And I haven't listened to your stuff. 
But what Jay said is just the undeniable inescapable, no?


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## nikolas (Jul 1, 2009)

You're treading on dangerous grounds, Kid, like Jay mentioned... I'd probably feel threatened by someone who knows music at your level. One who would venture too far into judging my music. I'd lose my 'edge' as the 'expert' in such a relationship. Of course communication is a very important factor, but as I've said elsewhere it's a two way street, which means that with a more ignorant director, or generally client (since I don't do films) I'd have to try harder to explain things.

Drops of light: The orchestration is not really complex, but there was nothing to show you're missing anything. On the contrary production values and ideas and the use of the flute were uber cool! So + for you!

Tokyo Warehouse: Definately not my style. Rather monotonous really. Can't comment any further.

Insomnia: I was excited to read the word "atonal", but I can't say I find it atonal in any way. It does portray the world of today, even at lo-fi feelings and aesthetic (not completely (the aesthetic I mean)). It's fresh and edgy. Now frenetic it does feel show and brought me pictures of NY city for some reason (?)

Haven't heard the rest, but thanks for sharing. Very interesting side of you, I've never seen/heard until now.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 1, 2009)

nikolas @ Wed Jul 01 said:


> You're treading on dangerous grounds, Kid, like Jay mentioned... I'd probably feel threatened by someone who knows music at your level. One who would venture too far into judging my music. I'd lose my 'edge' as the 'expert' in such a relationship. Of course communication is a very important factor, but as I've said elsewhere it's a two way street, which means that with a more ignorant director, or generally client (since I don't do films) I'd have to try harder to explain things.



Well I certainly would not feel threatened, because I know what I know, but it just could potentially help or hinder, depending on how he handled it.


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## Dave Connor (Jul 1, 2009)

Drops Of Light is wonderful with it's blend of orchestral and synth. It's very solidly constructed harmonically so whatever the instrumentation (orchestration) it was fine.

Some very good stuff in there on the other cues.


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## synthetic (Jul 1, 2009)

Tokyo warehouse
Sounds like a Michael Mann film
I liked it very much


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## Christian Marcussen (Jul 1, 2009)

I have not listened to the music, but would just comment on your question. Jay nails it - it could be an issue. However the sense I get from you, your opinions, and respect for the various crafts of filmmaking I suspect you could manage to make it a +


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## cc64 (Jul 1, 2009)

Hey kid,

really like your music.

In particular:

Bling,the strings are really cool.

Fractured. Sorry for my lack of culture i don't know what/who you're emulating here but it sounds great.

I Like the waltz at a compositional level but i feel the production side is lacking, the piano particularly, i know you probably wanted something lo-fi for this cut but to me it's just weak...(The Piano i mean)

As for working with a director/producer who knows a lot about music, i see it as a plus. I mean if they hire you in the first place, well i guess they know why they did and from that point on, why should it go wrong unless they're a bad filmmaker..?

Best,

Claude


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 2, 2009)

Enjoyed Drops of Light as a piece of music, and really liked the 2nd half. The first half the strings worked ok for me but sometimes the low end was a bit muddied by too many intervals in that range. Some of the transitions on the first half with the strings could be smoother.

Fractured the string transitions sound good. Strings sound real. I think the string writing works. If I was writing with you i might have added a weird texture underneath the cue.

Black Tux...Grooves are cool. Some of the Brass works while other times it feels a little clunky as a melody decision. that's a personal choice so to others they may like it. The high strings bring attention to themselves with repetitions and transitions. I realize it is on purpose.

Insomniac feels like a Euro dance club score feel and probably would work for your intention

I dig Tokyo Warehouse. the sound design is cool and the processed git leaves a nice organic sound to the track.


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## JohnG (Jul 3, 2009)

Somehow I wasn't expecting what I heard but I enjoyed it very much. Far more adventurous than I'd have guessed -- congratulations, Jay.


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## re-peat (Jul 3, 2009)

Most pleasant surprise for me as well. Great sense of sound in some of these pieces: unusual and exciting, without ever sounding contrived - which is always a delicate and very difficult judgement.
Claude is right about the pianosound in the waltz though. It's a fine line between what works and what doesn't and that piano may just be on the wrong side of the line.

Anyway, I've really enjoyed many, many moments here. The dog's bollocks.

_


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## kid-surf (Jul 5, 2009)

Thanks for taking the time to spin them, guys...


1) Thanks to those of you who answered the question [re: plus -vs- minus]. I'm curious to see how that issue will play out. I originally thought I'd like a Tom Tykwer (Rienhold/Johnny) scenario, but the more I think about it, the less I feel like writing ANY of the music. In that, when I sit down to write a screenplay I always pull pieces of music to create a soundtrack with which to write to...yet...I never include my own music. For reasons that are probably explainable, I CANNOT be inspired by my own music. So I can only assume that faced with the choice of using my cue/music or someone else's, I'd choose someone else's.

2) To respond to some of the thoughts on the music.


Nikolas -- RE: Atonal. I wasn't being entirely literal. I simply meant to imply that 
I wanted the music to lack a clear harmonic core. Thanks for the thoughts!


Dave -- thanks man!

Synthetic -- thanks man! That's the feel I was going for.

Christian -- Thanks. That is the goal, to make it a "+".

Claude -- Thanks for the thoughts! Yes, the piano is a weak tone. I tried 8 different pianos, none gave me exactly what I wanted. I finally gave up. Ideally I would have chosen some sort of upright played live. Total compromise.


Craig -- Thanks for the thoughts all the way around. 

Drops Of Light: I agree with your take. Although, for me, there's a point of diminishing returns on tweaking strings. Though, I do hear the probs you point to.

Fractured: "If I was writing with you i might have added a weird texture underneath the cue. " You know me.  Although, I don't immediately decipher just what that would be. I kinda like it raw like this.

Black Tux -- 100% agree on your take. This is a cue that I "hate" and "like" equally. My reason for putting it on the chopping block.


John -- Thanks!

Re-peat -- Thanks! "without ever sounding contrived" That's my goal in everything I create (music or otherwise), i.e. to be honest. I appreciate that comment. I agree that the piano is horrid. It IS that side of working. To my surprise, Rain Piano didn't work. I don't know of any other piano that intends to go for character. None of my pianos gave me what I was looking for.


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## Daniel James (Jul 5, 2009)

Having a director that is too musically aware is a minus in my opinion, because then they focus more on the technicalities and less on the emotion.

Dan


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## choc0thrax (Jul 5, 2009)

cc64 @ Wed Jul 01 said:


> Fractured. Sorry for my lack of culture i don't know what/who you're emulating here but it sounds great.



If you like the Fractured cue you'll really like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kkrfOXG ... re=related


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## kid-surf (Jul 5, 2009)

kid-surf @ Wed Jul 01 said:


> Fractured: Same question (btw - I know what I'm ripping off there)


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## kid-surf (Jul 5, 2009)

Daniel James @ Sun Jul 05 said:


> Having a director that is too musically aware is a minus in my opinion, because then they focus more on the technicalities and less on the emotion.
> 
> Dan



Or...they may focus more on the emotion "you" bring as opposed wanting a sound alike score. 

I could see it going both ways depending on the individual. But I am curious to know what people believe in that regard, so thanks for answering the question.

...I suppose it depends on wether or not the director in question has written several screenplays. I would imagine a composer jumping straight into directing w/o screenwriting experience may not understand/decipher 'story' the way one who's written several would...and thus, may be prone to focusing on technicaò>   §qb>   §qc>   §qd>   §


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## kid-surf (Jul 5, 2009)

choc0thrax @ Sun Jul 05 said:


> Nope, never been in that situation and never will!




Be glad you are afforded that luxury...the dudes clawing from the bottom will face it time and again. I'll never be in that exact sit again either...thankfully. Having said that, I'll be in several shitty sits still to come. That's the game...


But now I have a new question for you: How are you so sure you'll never face that sit? What do you want to be when you grow up?


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## choc0thrax (Jul 5, 2009)

kid-surf @ Sun Jul 05 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sun Jul 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, never been in that situation and never will!
> ...



Because my music sucks. I'll likely never be paid to compose and even if I was it'd be for my roommate who's going to be doing some directing and I don't think he'd be forcing me to copy any temp track. 

My future is likely in the field of professional robot assassin. As we all know, the election of black man to the white house has lifted the chains of all those shackled by subjugation. The doors to the presidency are now open to anyone-robots, pedophiles, self-aware bacteria and possibly even women. Seeing where technology is going it's clear that a robo-prez is imminent and robots cannot be trusted. Gore may not have won in 2000 but the upgraded model of him might some day. 

Stop saying "sit", say the whole word! You don't write for Variety. (o)


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## kid-surf (Jul 5, 2009)

1) If your music sucked, your buddy wouldn't use it. Unless he's a retard...

2) Your future looks bright! Professional robot assassins are getting more work than ever before - thanks to this new social climate...

3) Is that how they write in Variety? At the end of the day, I've ever read it... :thumbinbutt:


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## Lex (Jul 5, 2009)

kid-surf @ Sun Jul 05 said:


> Temp:
> 
> BTW -- I've been in a sit where I couldn't crack it, too specific (surely someone more talented than I may have found the solution).
> 
> ...



Which movie was it? Ultra Violet?  

aLex


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## Lunatique (Jul 11, 2009)

I've been in the situation where I was the art director on a video game and since I'm the most qualified person in the studio to interface with the composer for the game, I became the music/audio director as well. Being a composer myself, I wondered if it would be a good or bad thing for the composer on the game to be working with me. Of course, I can never count on the composer to tell me his true feelings on the matter, so I really can't say on his behalf, but for me, I think it's awesome because it's a lot easier to describe what you want to the composer when you actually understand composition and arrangement and mixing and musical styles...etc. I can listen the cues he submitted and tell him that a low drone from a contrabassoon would really enhance the vibe of a particular cue, or to kill the vibraphone solo on a cue that is supposed to sound much more sinister, or to use smaller ensembles for an action cue that takes place in a small room with just a guard and a couple of characters, and no big drums or brass sections because it would sound too epic for such a small scale action...etc. A person who is not a composer would not be able to give that kind of precise feedback, and I think he really appreciated that kind of on-the-nose constructive feedback. 

But at the same time, he also mentioned that when the people he's working with have zero knowledge about music, they'd just tell him to do whatever he wants, and that can be easier and more freeing. I agree with him on that, but at the same time, we all know that in entertainment biz, so many people like to pretend they matter and have control, so they yap about shit they have no business yapping about, like producers who are not artists but try to give art direction to animators and using all the wrong terminologies and misdirecting the animators. With music, I've seen producers try to communicate to the composer what they want and it's like EPIC FAIL. They have no idea what the hell they are talking about and only confuse the composer far more than help him.

So, I think when you have total freedom to do whatever you want and the people trust your judgment, that's the best case scenario. But when having to pick between ignorant control freaks and someone who actually is a composer, you're better off with the composer.


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