# How to block sounds from downstairs neighbours?



## gohrev (Apr 18, 2022)

Hello everyone,

Just days ago I moved into a lovely new *rented* apartment in an old, old detached house. I only have two neighbours: A couple downstairs on the ground floor, and a lady with her quiet little dog in the attic. One of the draws was the affordable rent and the fact that I could finally dedicate an entire room to my musical ambitions. 

Downstair neighbours are lovely. But I can hear them talk and sometimes, depending on what they are watching, I can hear their TV. These aren't rude, devil-may-care people. They are just living their lives and it's not their fault this old house is so poorly soundproofed. Now, I have ordered pretty big rugs that will come in all three rooms, and with more furniture being delivered in the coming days, I reckon things _might_ improve a bit.

But what other options do I have? Mind you, I am a tenant so it's not really an option to embark on heavy renovation projects involving dry walls, insulation mats underneath floorboards, etc. I was even considering using a pink or brown noise machine, but I can't imagine composing with that thing zooming right next to me.

It's funny how I am so oversensitive to noise, given that I love nothing more than experimenting with synths and outlandish instruments. But then again, it's different when it's _you_ who's making the noise, isn't it? Any tips are greatly appreciated, thank you for reading my long rant.


_– Gohrev, considering moving to the middle of nowhere. _


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## MartinH. (Apr 18, 2022)

gohrev said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Just days ago I moved into a lovely new *rented* apartment in an old, old detached house. I only have two neighbours: A couple downstairs on the ground floor, and a lady with her quiet little dog in the attic. One of the draws was the affordable rent and the fact that I could finally dedicate an entire room to my musical ambitions.
> 
> ...



My girlfriend is wearing her noisecancelling headphones almost nonstop. Works wonders against hearing neighbours talk. So that's probably what you'll have to look into too. I doubt you have a realistic chance of blocking the sound with anything you put on the floor.

But if the neighbours are friendly people, maybe you can just get used to them? These things take time, you just moved in. You'll naturally be very sensitive to all noises you aren't used to yet, but this will get better I think.


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## dzilizzi (Apr 18, 2022)

Are you going to be recording audio? I think that would be the only time it would matter. If so, I would probably get some of those gym mat things for under your rugs and either the foam soundproofing or even just heavy quilts on the walls.


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## reutunes (Apr 18, 2022)

The main issue I've experienced is that most sound actually travels through the joists and beams, with plasterboard acting like a giant speaker. So there's very little way to prevent that, especially in rented accomodation. I work mostly on headphones but rugs / mats / curtains etc will probably make very little difference I'm afraid.


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## gohrev (Apr 18, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> My girlfriend is wearing her noisecancelling headphones almost nonstop. Works wonders against hearing neighbours talk. So that's probably what you'll have to look into too. I doubt you have a realistic chance of blocking the sound with anything you put on the floor.
> 
> But if the neighbours are friendly people, maybe you can just get used to them? These things take time, you just moved in. You'll naturally be very sensitive to all noises you aren't used to yet, but this will get better I think.


The weird thing is that there is nothing more beautiful than natural silence. And that makes it so off-putting to wear ANC headphones. But, I can't have it all…

And you are right about getting used to things. Hopefully the brain won't register it as much in the near future.


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## Rowy van Hest (Apr 18, 2022)

gohrev said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Just days ago I moved into a lovely new *rented* apartment in an old, old detached house. I only have two neighbours: A couple downstairs on the ground floor, and a lady with her quiet little dog in the attic. One of the draws was the affordable rent and the fact that I could finally dedicate an entire room to my musical ambitions.
> 
> ...


If you can hear them, they can hear you. You could try to find a solution together.


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## gohrev (Apr 18, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Are you going to be recording audio? I think that would be the only time it would matter. If so, I would probably get some of those gym mat things for under your rugs and either the foam soundproofing or even just heavy quilts on the walls.


Ah, no — I won't be recording audio. The heavy quilts are a good idea. Or maybe some elegant looking soundproofing panels. I like the ones that look like a honeycomb.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Apr 18, 2022)

I know it’s not the same, but I have quite a bit of traffic outside where I live now and when I moved in, I noticed it a lot. Now I’ve gotten used to it. It only bothers me if I’m really tired.

From my own experience with neighbours: If I like them, I’m many times less bothered by noise from them than if it’s people I’m less fond of  So in your case, when you like your downstairs neighbours, maybe their talking won’t be a problem once you’ve gotten used to it. I hope so! It’s such a pain moving and it sounds like you’re happy with the place otherwise.


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## gohrev (Apr 18, 2022)

@Henrik B. Jensen I hope you are right. Funny you should mention the traffic: My apartment is not too far from a highway, but the blur of sound doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's direct, "human-made" sound like talking that bothers me.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Apr 18, 2022)

gohrev said:


> @Henrik B. Jensen I hope you are right. Funny you should mention the traffic: My apartment is not too far from a highway, but the blur of sound doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's direct, "human-made" sound like talking that bothers me.


I am the same. I used to live in a dormitory with paper thin walls back when I was studying….awful.


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## SupremeFist (Apr 18, 2022)

gohrev said:


> The weird thing is that there is nothing more beautiful than natural silence. And that makes it so off-putting to wear ANC headphones. But, I can't have it all…


Maybe try a set of good closed (but not ANC) cans. The Slate VSX system is terrific and offers a fair bit of passive noise attenuation.


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## vancomposer (Apr 18, 2022)

I confirm the learning curve it takes your ears to adapt to new noise environments. I used to live on a farm for many years with only the farmer and his tractor once in a while interrupting my ear peace. Then I moved back into a city and was close to freak out! I could hear EVERY freaking plane flying over the house or any car cranking up their motors at the intersection next to my place. And in a town like Las Vegas there are LOTS of planes in and out and tourists coming to the suburban areas to enjoy a moment of alpha male status with their cars. I was shocked how well I got along this noise pollution after a while and even my roommate watching TV downstairs.

I agree you exhausted most of physical adjustments you can do and only other things I see depending on your schedule and deadlines is to look out for free time gaps in the house. My roommate for example was gone most office hours due to work. That helped a lot and also me getting efficient during that time. I do enjoy working with closed headphones now as well. Something I wasn't for many years like during those farm days.


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## SergeD (Apr 18, 2022)

Even better than a pink or brown noise machine could be a fan as it breaks air pressure coming from sensitive part of your room. My 2 cents.


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## tressie5 (Apr 18, 2022)

I feel your pain. I'm a long-time sufferer of misophonia, so obtaining peace and quiet is a must. I live in an apartment building with paper-thin walls. Unfortunately, my upstairs has mental health issues and drags her furniture around all day every day and into the evening. In addition, the lady in the unit next to mine owns two loud whining/barking dogs. 

I wear closed-back, -35dB, hybrid noise-canceling Bluetooth headphones all day. Those help a little. I've also applied for subsidized apartment units elsewhere that are one floor only. Those are hard to come by as I've been on a few waiting lists for a year.


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## nolotrippen (Apr 18, 2022)

I'm a white noise guy. At night I turn from playing classical and film cds to a radio station with a constant noise stream. If you're composing music with headphones on, that might put some of the neighbor noise out of your mind.


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## pinki (Apr 18, 2022)

SergeD said:


> Even better than a pink or brown noise machine could be a fan as it breaks air pressure coming from sensitive part of your room. My 2 cents.


Yes I highly recommend a fan too. Also a low level distributed hifi works wonders…lute music on quietly works for me!


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## aeliron (Apr 18, 2022)

gohrev said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Just days ago I moved into a lovely new *rented* apartment in an old, old detached house. I only have two neighbours: A couple downstairs on the ground floor, and a lady with her quiet little dog in the attic. One of the draws was the affordable rent and the fact that I could finally dedicate an entire room to my musical ambitions.
> 
> ...


Save up a little and do some basic remodeling to get this setup:


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## aeliron (Apr 18, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> I feel your pain. I'm a long-time sufferer of misophonia, so obtaining peace and quiet is a must. I live in an apartment building with paper-thin walls. Unfortunately, my upstairs has mental health issues and drags her furniture around all day every day and into the evening. In addition, the lady in the unit next to mine owns two loud whining/barking dogs.
> 
> I wear closed-back, -35dB, hybrid noise-canceling Bluetooth headphones all day. Those help a little. I've also applied for subsidized apartment units elsewhere that are one floor only. Those are hard to come by as I've been on a few waiting lists for a year.


I think I understand your profile pic better now


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## rgames (Apr 18, 2022)

The only way to deal with that situation is a "room inside a room" approach. You should be able to do that without making any mods to the structure of the house. You need to put down a floating floor then build a well-isolated room on top of it. Of course, you lose a foot or two of space in each dimension, including vertical. You'll also likely have to trash the entire structure when you move out.

My neighborhood was quiet until about two years go when my rear neighbor got one of those little, white-curly-hair, shake-and-pee dogs that barks constantly at nothing. They're one of those families that has a lot of chaos in it and the dog reflects that fact. So noise can still be an issue even if you don't share any walls with those creating it.

For anyone searching for true quiet, look at a dark skies map. Truly low noise is very strongly correlated with dark skies. I spend a fair amount of time in South Central Utah and that's one of the quietest places I've ever encountered. You forget what real quiet is until you experience it, especially on a clear night. It's transcendent. 






Light Pollution Map - DarkSiteFinder.com







darksitefinder.com





rgames


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## dzilizzi (Apr 18, 2022)

rgames said:


> The only way to deal with that situation is a "room inside a room" approach. You should be able to do that without making any mods to the structure of the house. You need to put down a floating floor then build a well-isolated room on top of it. Of course, you lose a foot or two of space in each dimension, including vertical. You'll also likely have to trash the entire structure when you move out.
> 
> My neighborhood was quiet until about two years go when my rear neighbor got one of those little, white-curly-hair, shake-and-pee dogs that barks constantly at nothing. They're one of those families that has a lot of chaos in it and the dog reflects that fact. So noise can still be an issue even if you don't share any walls with those creating it.
> 
> ...


I used to live in the desert in a large square miles/small population town in the middle of nowhere. (20 minutes drive to the nearest small town with a grocery store at 60 mph) For some reason, houses were built right next to each other. We had some friends that bought land and had a house built. Within a year, a house was built right next to theirs, even though the lots were big. It had to do with the cost of putting electric out to the house, so instead of building in the middle of their lot, the neighbors built as close to the line as possible in order to pay less to the electric co for by using the line/pole already installed for my friends house. It was mostly a quiet town though.


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## tressie5 (Apr 18, 2022)

Yes. My avatar is of a man experiencing total madness. Essentially, me.


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## SandChannel (Apr 18, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> Yes. My avatar is of a man experiencing total madness. Essentially, me.


I dunno. He just looks pretty stoked to me.


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## chillbot (Apr 18, 2022)

These threads always tend to go so black-and-white. It's true that you can't completely block the sound without building something like a floating floor. And it's true that the sound may be coming through the joists and beams. But it's not like you're building a recording studio, there is still a grey area where you can compromise and at least lessen SOME of the sound.

Mass is your friend, as much mass as you can put between you and them will deaden the sound not entirely but should be at least noticeably. So that's where SheetBlok comes in, it's expensive but I don't know how much you need maybe only a couple of rolls would do the trick.

If it was me, I would roll a layer of SheetBlok over the entire floor in your room... overlap if you can... if not then the rolls sealed as tight as possible to each other with duct tape. Two layers even if you can. And then cover the entire floor with the biggest and heaviest rug you can find. You would be very hard pressed to hear your neighbors through this. But... sound coming through the walls and beams and windows and cracks where the floor and the wall meet and everything else, who knows. You could start with the floor and see how much it helps and then address the walls...


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## gohrev (Apr 18, 2022)

Thank you all for the responses so far, too many to quote in this comment. 

I will look into vinyl flooring (roll), to be placed on top of the laminate floor in the studio room. And on top of that goes the heavy rug. Along with soundproofing the walls (panels, bass traps) and with the addition of a little more furniture that should hopefully go a long way.


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## jason.d (Apr 18, 2022)

You could also shop around for an indoor waterfall. Nothing too big but enough to make some natural noise to fill the room.


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## Rowy van Hest (Apr 18, 2022)

SergeD said:


> Even better than a pink or brown noise machine could be a fan as it breaks air pressure coming from sensitive part of your room. My 2 cents.


That's what my son does when he can't sleep from the noise. I also know a writer who turned on his vacuum cleaner when he wanted to work.


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## Dietz (Apr 19, 2022)

rgames said:


> The only way to deal with that situation is a "room inside a room" approach.


That's true, and as a matter of fact I had such a construction built for me a couple of years ago. 

The main problem is that the possibilities for this depend very much on the static design of the surrounding building, because the insulation is mainly determined by the weight of the structure (... the more the better). The second difficulty is to find proper solutions for ventilation and, of course, lighting. 

All in all, a very costly solution, but this room is virtually silent (in both directions) once the 300 kg / 660 pounds door is closed. Nirvana. 8-)


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## gohrev (Apr 19, 2022)

That room-in-room concept, although quite genius, isn't going to work in this 130-year old house :-/

I am coming to terms with the idea of doing my best to isolate the apartment as best as I can, while wearing noise-cancelling headphones. 

The option of living somewhere in the middle of nowhere is a bit daunting: I'm afraid I would love it way too much and become a total recluse


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## ptram (Apr 19, 2022)

No suggestion to give, considering I have the same issue. Just a memory.

A few years ago I could finally find an apartment on the mountains, in a big village now completely abandoned. I tried to retire there as often as possible, to enjoy the silence.

Was I completely alone? No, someone at a certain point took another apartment in another block. He had a dog that was secluded on a terrace all day long, and never stopped barking.

I convinced myself that the only reasonable way to live is in a motorhome, free to move far from any noise when needed. And I will do it, sooner or later.

Paolo


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## Alex Fraser (Apr 19, 2022)

My room is very noisy. The fridge. Kids in the background. Neighbour currently cutting his hedge. MacBook fan spooling up. (Again.)

The solution (for me) is headphones. Once you're "in the zone" and working, I find it's easy to tune most things out. I know it's not ideal for some but it's an effective compromise.



gohrev said:


> I am coming to terms with the idea of doing my best to isolate the apartment as best as I can, while wearing noise-cancelling headphones.


You could try without noise cancelling ones first? The direct audio into your ear may well refocus you enough?


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## gohrev (Apr 19, 2022)

Oh Paolo, I can _feel_ the disappointment behind your story. I love dogs, but when one doesn't stop barking I get ideas that would make Hannibal Lecter blush like a young bride.


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## gohrev (Apr 19, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> My room is very noisy. The fridge. Kids in the background. Neighbour currently cutting his hedge. MacBook fan spooling up. (Again.)
> 
> The solution (for me) is headphones. Once you're "in the zone" and working, I find it's easy to tune most things out. I know it's not ideal for some but it's an effective compromise.
> 
> ...


Normally I would say you are right, Alex: But I am also looking for silence when I am _not_ working  
And as I don't always want to listen to music constantly, I would probably need ANC headphones


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## Alex Fraser (Apr 19, 2022)

gohrev said:


> Normally I would say you are right, Alex: But I am also looking for silence when I am _not_ working
> And as I don't always want to listen to music constantly, I would probably need ANC headphones


Ah, of course - missed that earlier bit. I have three kids. I gave up on the silence long ago...
Silence...what's that like then?


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## vancomposer (Apr 19, 2022)

ptram said:


> I convinced myself that the only reasonable way to live is in a motorhome, free to move far from any noise when needed. And I will do it, sooner or later.
> 
> Paolo


I can confirm that works well. 🙋🏻‍♂️


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## Crowe (Apr 19, 2022)

Assassination might work.

for a while, anyway.


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## DANIELE (Apr 19, 2022)

gohrev said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Just days ago I moved into a lovely new *rented* apartment in an old, old detached house. I only have two neighbours: A couple downstairs on the ground floor, and a lady with her quiet little dog in the attic. One of the draws was the affordable rent and the fact that I could finally dedicate an entire room to my musical ambitions.
> 
> ...


I feel you, I live in an apartment with my neighbours living under me that are rude people that always has strangers in their house, plus two dogs that make noise at all times. I tried to talk to them, I tried everything an the only thing they left me to do is



Plus I have very sensitive hears as every composer or musician, but in this case all the other neighbours complained about them.

Oh I almost forgot, I've been in this situation for two and a half years.


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## chillbot (Apr 19, 2022)

gohrev said:


> I will look into vinyl flooring (roll), to be placed on top of the laminate floor in the studio room.


To elaborate, I've used SheetBlok in two studios now, in the walls between drywall. No it's not soundproof (there are still windows and doors) but the amount of mass makes a noticeable reduction in sound. This stuff is supposedly as dense as lead, so a word of warning if you decide to go that route... get a friend or two to help you lay it down and a real heavy-duty razor to cut it. Each roll weighs 128 lbs / 58 kgs.


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## fakemaxwell (Apr 19, 2022)

I had some bad neighbors. The solve was to move :/

While I was there though big headphones were the solution. Not ANC as those are typically "tuned" for consumer playback, and noise cancelling doesn't work well for dynamic sounds like people talking. Something like the Neumann NDH-20s, Beyerdynamic DT series, something big and thick.

I sealed off the doors with some weatherstripping, which did help but only a bit. Took it from unbearable to merely annoying. For upstairs neighbors a simple rug really does work for heavy stompers. In terms of everything else...unless you want to encase your apartment in mass loaded vinyl (you don't) you're better off just trying to work around it.

Worst case... https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/283347-REG/Remote_Audio_HN7506_HN_7506_High_Noise_Isolating.html


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## SergeD (Apr 19, 2022)

There is something else you could do. Crank up your speaker face down on the floor. Knock your neighbors door and gently tell them your doing a check on how much you can up the volume without disturbing their tranquility. If they appreciate your concern about them they will perhaps want to also make that check-up on their side. Sometimes civility attracts civility and some partnership of goodwill. It worked well for me and it should work for you if you do it in all respect.

Also, not expensive but great to cool out when in despair :



3M™ Lawn and Garden Folding Earmuff, Black - Google Search


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## DANIELE (Apr 19, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> I had some bad neighbors. The solve was to move :/


I'm trying to but where I live it is all overpriced and it is very difficult to find the right home.


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## davidanthony (Apr 19, 2022)

gohrev said:


> Along with soundproofing the walls (panels, bass traps) and with the addition of a little more furniture that should hopefully go a long way.


Hate to be the bearer of bad news as I have been in this situation myself, but your proposed measures will probably not go a long way :( 

"Sound proofing", which means the reduction/elimination of sound across the entire spectrum, aka what you need to solve an outside noise problem, is not the same thing as "acoustic treatment", which is the attenuation of targeted frequencies to control what you hear inside a given space. 

Panels and bass traps are tools for acoustic treatment, not sound proofing. Where acoustic treatment can have an impact is by minimizing or eliminating reverberations and echoes in your space, but in terms of eliminating directly transmitted sound (which is likely to be the primary cause of your angst), they unfortunately aren't going to do much.

To achieve a reduction in sound transmission the laws of physics require that you add a lot of mass in specific configurations, which is pretty costly and likely not an option anyway is it will be outside the bounds of most rental agreements.

So if your primary goal in applying treatment is a reduction in sound transmission, my advice would be to put the money toward a good pair of headphones for when you're listening to music and a good pair of earplugs for when you're not.


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## gohrev (Apr 19, 2022)

@DANIELE In my previous apartment, I lived next to a girl who would always slam her door. Couldn't correct her, I tried, and every time she would be back to her trashy door-slamming ways in no-time. The worst part is that I am by no means perfect, but I really do my best to be a quiet neighbour. I feel for you and I hope you can soon move or find a solution. As for finding a new place: It would have to be something totally different from where you are now, otherwise you'll end up in just another apartment with similar (or worse!) issues. Same story here (Munich) when it comes to finding something affordable… :-/

@chillbot thanks for making that clear — I may first want to try a slightly lighter material and see how far that gets me.

@SergeD checking with the neighbours is an excellent suggestion no matter what, and once my studio room has been completed, that's what I will do. They are actually lovely people.

@davidanthony thank you for setting me straight, I always do get the two mixed up. As for proposing headphones, that's a nice segue into my update:

*I bought the Sony WH-1000XM4 headphones, and am wearing them now. Can't hear anything from anyone downstairs nor upstairs!* I decided to try to wear them constantly, rather than only putting them on "in case of emergency", as I don't want to associate them with annoyance and irritation.


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## DANIELE (Apr 19, 2022)

gohrev said:


> @DANIELE In my previous apartment, I lived next to a girl who would always slam her door. Couldn't correct her, I tried, and every time she would be back to her trashy door-slamming ways in no-time. The worst part is that I am by no means perfect, but I really do my best to be a quiet neighbour. I feel for you and I hope you can soon move or find a solution. As for finding a new place: It would have to be something totally different from where you are now, otherwise you'll end up in just another apartment with similar (or worse!) issues. Same story here (Munich) when it comes to finding something affordable… :-/


Same thing for me, she illegally rent the apartment to other peoples, she slams the door, she leave the dogs alone and they start crying/barking etc..., she make a lot of noise in the early morning or after 11:00 pm, she often talk with a very high volume voice during late night with other people, she drink a lot with those people and when she does this it's worse, every time someone pass in front of the door the dogs start barking causing the neighbours to suddenly wake up, the dog also barks a lot when someone came in that apartment, no matter what time it is. We have to sleep often with earplugs to be able to go to work without falling asleep. I have also a difficult family health situation (near to death one) and no matter what we tried to solve pacifically the problem, she keeps doing what she want without caring about other people.

I built a little sound proof studio in my apartment, just to avoid annoying the neighbours during night. I usually go to sleep pretty early anyway.

I'm looking for a standalone home, this is why I'm facing so many difficulties to find one that doesn't cost a lot of money. I don't want to be in an apartment anymore.


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## gohrev (Apr 19, 2022)

DANIELE said:


> I'm looking for a standalone home, this is why I'm facing so many difficulties to find one that doesn't cost a lot of money. I don't want to be in an apartment anymore.


Daniele I completely understand. Today, I almost responded to a little standalone home with a big garden, it would be perfect in so many ways — But it's really in the middle of nowhere (albeit at the foot of the Alps…). I am single so no partner to keep me company, and I would be afraid to become extremely isolated and lonely in such a tiny village where I don't know a single soul.

I bet you have looked at a lot of houses already, but the ones that are affordable are usually the ones that need a _ton_ of work to upgrade them to the 21st century.


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## DANIELE (Apr 19, 2022)

gohrev said:


> Daniele I completely understand. Today, I almost responded to a little standalone home with a big garden, it would be perfect in so many ways — But it's really in the middle of nowhere (albeit at the foot of the Alps…). I am single so no partner to keep me company, and I would be afraid to become extremely isolated and lonely in such a tiny village where I don't know a single soul.
> 
> I bet you have looked at a lot of houses already, but the ones that are affordable are usually the ones that need a _ton_ of work to upgrade them to the 21st century.


I know, but unfortunately here many owners sell their homes (homes that need a lot of work) thinking they have gold, let's not talk about homes a little more upgraded. We are an old country and there are A LOT of old houses out there, but the prices here are too high even for them, and there are people that spend those money in those houses. I saw houses that needed a complete reworking (roof included) sold for appalling prices. If I want to buy something I need to go very far from my workplace and other problems would rise...I'm very tired...


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## Pier (Apr 19, 2022)

I seriously doubt the rugs or gym foam tiles will do much. Sound travels through all the pillars and walls, not only through the floor. Like others have said, you'd need a room within a room to solve this.

If you can, go live in the middle of nowhere. For a year I lived in an off the grid cabin in some mountains in Mexico and it was glorious. You'll quickly get used to having to drive to buy anything and the rent will be super cheap.


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## tressie5 (Apr 19, 2022)

If I didn't have these ANC headphones I'd either be in a psych hospital or prison, and I like my freedom too much, especially now that I'm no longer homeless and back to composing music. Hopefully, I will be moving later this year.


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## cel4145 (Apr 19, 2022)

gohrev said:


> But what other options do I have? Mind you, I am a tenant so it's not really an option to embark on heavy renovation projects involving dry walls, insulation mats underneath floorboards, etc. I was even considering using a pink or brown noise machine, but I can't imagine composing with that thing zooming right next to me.



Take a walk around your room. If you find the talking is coming into your room from a spot a good bit away from where you are, you can put a noise machine there. 

And I have a noise machine that I use in my room for sleeping because of road noise, and there are options for different different frequency response range emphasis. So I picked the one that's closer to the road noise.


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## vancomposer (Apr 19, 2022)

Pier said:


> If you can, go live in the middle of nowhere. For a year I lived in an off the grid cabin in some mountains in Mexico and it was glorious. You'll quickly get used to having to drive to buy anything and the rent will be super cheap.


I am living off grid mobile for 4+ years now (certainly a lifestyle not for everyone) and eventually will buy some land somewhere and build a tiny home off grid home base with my own solar power system, rain collectors, septic system etc.. I already visited friends who did that for example in Bisbee, AZ. So amazing!


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## rgames (Apr 19, 2022)

vancomposer said:


> I am living off grid mobile for 4+ years now


That's awesome - I just bought a 4x4 Sprinter and will hopefully be doing the same for at least a few days a month. 
I took it up to Moab a couple weeks ago. Middle of Canyonlands is about as quiet as it gets!

Gotta get the mobile studio set up...

rgames


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## vancomposer (Apr 19, 2022)

rgames said:


> That's awesome - I just bought a 4x4 Sprinter and will hopefully be doing the same for at least a few days a month.
> I took it up to Moab a couple weeks ago. Middle of Canyonlands is about as quiet as it gets!
> 
> Gotta get the mobile studio set up...
> ...


Yeah that's great, go for it! BEST decision I could have ever done for myself, beside moving to the US in the first place. It is just not the option alone for me to move away from noise or annoying people. I can actually park sometimes in loud commercial parking lots and don't give a damn. It is the constant change of scenery that I need! I start getting depressed otherwise.


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## OleJoergensen (Apr 20, 2022)

I did sound dampen the floor in a 13 m2 room. Using 4 different layers, total 7 cm high and 280 kg total weight. And then added some soundpanels/ curtain. Its was the easy way to do it, to avoid heavy lift , because of a back damage.(I did also remove the panels between wall and floor, to fill the gaps with foam and silicone). Anyway, its not perfrect but it did help a lot. There is a nice sensation of quietness in the room. It was not cheap but worth it. I love to be in that room .
In the future I will have the old windows replaced too.
I mostly uses headphones because Im used to that from the place I lived before but my intension is to uses speakers more. 


Many people suffers from noise. At the moment Im happy, that the neighbors are not noisy.

Pictures for inspiration…..


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## tressie5 (Apr 20, 2022)

Hey gohrev, there's a Bollywood movie about us. It's called _Namdev Bhau: In Search Of Silence_. It's about a taxi driver who had it up to here with the constant barrage of noises in Bombay so he sets out to locate some faraway mythical place of silence. It's essentially a road movie. Still waiting for it to be released in America, though.


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## gohrev (Apr 20, 2022)

ha, I'll keep my eyes open for that one, @tressie5 

Last year I was in Grenoble. In one of the mountains, Napoleon's army carved out a battery, barracks, storage, etc. To connect the cavernous rooms, stairways were cut out in the mountain. 

There, at a landing in the middle of the "staircase", surrounded and covered by many meters of impenetrable rock, I sat for what must have been an hour, enjoying the most silent moment in my life. I could hear my heart beating, not a single bit of noise could penetrate that space.

It was pure bliss.


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## tressie5 (Apr 20, 2022)

Sweet.


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## b_elliott (Apr 20, 2022)

Interesting thread of ideas. Similar to you I have the noisy neighbor issue.

I am ITB about 99% the time using headphones since folks upstairs both do rotating shiftwork thus someone is always sleeping; or, engaged in endless room renovations while I compose during the day! 2 hours of grinding just now.

I do like the idea of ANC headphones. Active Noise Canceling = new to me! They seem to work on the principle of producing an audio wave that is as close to 180 degree phase shifted as possible. If ever you have done the DAW trick to duplicate an audio track, invert the polarity on the second track, you will be greeted with total silence. Same or similar principle occurring with ANC headphones.

BTW I earlier studied up on Gustav Mahler and his times spent composing Symphony No 4. 1900: Turns out Mahler was extremely sensitive to noise of any kind while he composed. His solution: a composer hut.



One of Mahler's isolation huts. Similar to Guy Mitchelmore's composer hut?

Now-a-days ANC headphones would likely have satisfied even Mahler's extreme demands for silence. From what I gathered, in 1900s Vienna he was under heaps of stress, under attack (a Jew, too young, etc). A fascinating read of a kindred soul if you find the time.

With cheers + heavy bootsteps from above, grinding, sanding ... all that noize, I bid you silence,
Bill


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## gohrev (Apr 20, 2022)

Oh @b_elliott, if only one could afford a simple little hut with internet somewhere around Plansee, Wörter See.. Wolfgangsee… <3 — at least my move to this part of the world gives me so many pristine spots to escape to, if even for a few hours…

And yes, I am sure Mahler (and probably _any_ composer all the way back to Vivaldi) would adore the ANC headphones. There is no sound so sweet as silence…


PS: What does "ITB" stand for?


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## Pier (Apr 20, 2022)

gohrev said:


> PS: What does "ITB" stand for?


In the box (in the computer).


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## b_elliott (Apr 20, 2022)

In the Box. Pier is correct.

More mixers are moving away from using mixing consoles and outboard studio gear to do their mixes in their DAW + plugins. First heard the concept from Andrew Scheps.

In addition to the physical upgrades suggested, there is also some mental tricks to sharpen your mental focus before starting composing. Basically before diving into the DAW to start composing, spend 90 seconds on a focus attention drill. 

Place an object on a table before you and focus your attention on it fully for @ 90 seconds. (I use a freebie online clock alarm to let me know when time is up.) With that out of the way, move onto composing. Helps me ignore the distractions; meant as a tune-up, not a ritual.

The old adages: Take frequent breaks to avoid ear fatigue; get a good night's sleep; of course apply for a focused attention.


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## rgames (Apr 20, 2022)

One major problem with ANC is that one way it reduces perceived noise is by raising the noise floor. If you sit in a quiet place and turn on the ANC you'll hear the noise floor increase.

So ANC can help reduce the perception of structured noise but it does so at least partly by reducing dynamic range.

Personally I've never found ANC to be useful for anything other than continuous drone-type noises under 1 kHz or so. It works well for airplane engine/airflow noise, air conditioners and those kinds of sound sources but I've never found much benefit for more structured noise like speech or music or a jackhammer. I still hear the flight attendants and other passengers just fine with ANC headphones on.

rgames


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## Pier (Apr 20, 2022)

rgames said:


> One major problem with ANC is that one way it reduces perceived noise is by raising the noise floor. If you sit in a quiet place and turn on the ANC you'll hear the noise floor increase.
> 
> So ANC can help reduce the perception of structured noise but it does so at least partly by reducing dynamic range.
> 
> ...


I don't know if all ANC headphones reduce the dynamic range, but I do agree it's only useful for constant low noise.

It's amazing on engines, fans, etc, but it's much less effective for other stuff like dogs barking or music.

I don't know if all headphones do this, but my PXC 550 also changes the frequency response when enabling ANC. The low end gets a significant boost.

Personally I much prefer passive noise cancellation. I really like my HD 280 Pro (2019 model). The isolation is fantastic and I love the sound signature. They only lack a bit of low end which is easily corrected with some EQ. I hear the DT770 also have very good isolation.


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## Kony (Apr 20, 2022)

@gohrev I can recommend custom earplugs made by Hand Held Audio. These are custom made to fit your ears, and you can select filters for -9dB, -15dB, and -25dB. 

Could be a more cost-effective and pragmatic solution than going to town trying to soundproof your flat? I have used the -25dB ones for live shows, and can confirm they are very good for loud gigs etc - ie I can hear everything at a comfortable level. 

They are also good when travelling by plane for example. For your situation, you'd have to gauge what level of noise reduction you need, but the filters are changeable so you're not stuck with just one filter option if you get these.






Custom Earplugs – Hand Held Audio


Noise-induced hearing damage is cumulative yet avoidable condition, so it’s crucial for Musicians, Production Crew, Security & Venue Staff to have good hearing protection in place. Custom earplugs offer long-term comfort because they fit the ear exactly and are so low profile that they are...



www.handheldaudio.co.uk


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## dzilizzi (Apr 20, 2022)

If you have wax problems or tinnitus, I don't recommend anything that goes in the ear. I used to sleep with earplugs because my husband's white noise fan sounded like a jet engine to me. My ears would constantly bother me and my tinnitus got worse. And? This could be me only.


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## Kony (Apr 20, 2022)

I have tinnitus - the Hand Held Audio filters didn't make it worse. To be clear, these aren't conventional plugs as they aren't completely blocking sound etc - there is a filter and the inner ear can "breath".


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## gohrev (Apr 21, 2022)

@Kony thank you for the suggestion. I always travel with a pair of orange 3M plugs, the ones made for road workers. They are fantastic and very comfortable.

For now, I can say that the Sony ANC headphones cancel out voices. I also have to admit that my neighbours are actually very quiet, civilised people — so it's not that I'm bothered constantly. In fact, I haven't needed the headphones at all in the past 1,5 days.

I really _am_ a delicate flower…


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## Denkii (Apr 21, 2022)

Kill the neighbours?
🤔


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## Kony (Apr 21, 2022)

@gohrev those 3M ones are not the same by the way. Here's the difference:

3M






Hand Held Audio


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## gohrev (Apr 21, 2022)

Denkii said:


> Kill the neighbours?
> 🤔


My new neighbours are really sweet. But I had the most terrible thoughts about the girl living next door in my old apartment. Noise and rudeness can drive even the most pacific of people straight into the arms of utter madness!


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## davidson (Apr 21, 2022)

gohrev said:


> My new neighbours are really sweet. But I had the most terrible thoughts about the girl living next door in my old apartment. Noise and rudeness can drive even the most pacific of people straight into the arms of utter madness!


Haha! I had a guy who used to live in an apartment next to me. His bathroom was directly behind where my head was in bed. He was a doctor with a 5am shift so every single day I could hear him having a shower at 4am. He was absolutely the nicest guy in the world just getting on with his job and saving lives, but there were times I could have happily drowned him in that shower...


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## b_elliott (Apr 21, 2022)

gohrev said:


> My new neighbours are really sweet. But I had the most terrible thoughts about the girl living next door in my old apartment. Noise and rudeness can drive even the most pacific of people straight into the arms of utter madness!


I once landed in an apartment complex in Ottawa. From upper-story open windows came a drunkfest: a married couple screaming out the vilest of invectives... The most opposite of "Cease, gentle queen these execrations." 

As bad as that was, we then all were greeted full blast at 6am (in loop replay of course) "Back in the Saddle Again".
No offence to Gene Autry but that was a hellofa segue.

Should a Mozart ever resurface there is an opera theme to work upon!


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## VVEremita (Apr 21, 2022)

I used to live either on the countryside next to loud woodwork and farming or in the city next to streets and train stations. Noise never really bothered me... until I moved to a flat in the city that is not facing any outside noise. It is so quiet and the walls are so thin that I suddenly hear inside noise, like the neighbours talking and flushing their toilet, which bothered me very much at first. I tried to inform myself on the same topics discussed here and came to the conclusion that there is no realistic way for me to block it physically. Thankfully in the process I got used to it mentally and now it doesn't bother me that much. I think every living situation has it's unique profile of noises and other inconvenience. I don't want to say that being exposed to unpleasent noise is harmless. It can cause stress and affect health and wellbeing. And for sure people react very differently to it. But fortunately there is some room for adaptation.

Earplugs help in the night. They don't fully block out noise but can reduce it to a point at which it doesn't wake me up anymore. I try not to use them every night but only when there is more noise going on or when I feel nervous/stressed an therefore am more sensible to noise. Wearing them every night seemed to invert the effect because I got used to the lowered noise and suddenly being without them felt like everything became louder.

Good luck, calm and peace to all out there suffering from noise emissions.


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## NekujaK (Apr 21, 2022)

As I've gotten older, I've become quite hypersensitive to people sounds in my environment. The intrusion of external sounds into my home feels like an invasion of my private space, and noisy inconsiderate neighbors are the absolute worst nightmare for me. However, when I look back on my youth, I realize, with profound embarrassment and regret, that I was very much a noisy inconsiderate neighbor myself once.

Namely, when my parents would go out on the weekend, I'd have my heavy metal band come to the house and we would jam, sometimes past midnight. We weren't trying to be rude. As strange as it may sound, we were just blithely unaware that our ear-splitting music (if you can call it that) actually penetrated beyond the walls of my house.

Amazingly, none of our neighbors ever complained or called the cops, but if they did, we would've instantly complied. We were polite A-students with good upbringing - we just didn't have a clue about how our blaring jam sessions affected the neighborhood. I cringe when I think back to that time, especially if I put myself our neighbor's shoes. It must've been hell for them, and I really wish they had said something.

I guess the point is, while there are definitely genuinely rude, noisy, inconsiderate people who lack empathy in the world, in some cases they may actually be good people who are simply unaware of their impact on those around them. The puzzle is how to make them aware? Often there's nothing we can do, and they need to arrive at it thru their own life experiences. But if you can get them to access that empathetic part of themselves, maybe they'll consider changing their behavior. I'm no expert at this, but I'd like to think there's hope.


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## gohrev (Apr 21, 2022)

@NekujaK thanks for sharing that self-reflection  Agree with everything you said.

To add: Sometimes it really isn't anybody's 'fault' or even lack of awareness — If the building is constructed poorly, or in a time when soundproofing didn't exist, what are you going to do? Whisper and only flush the toilet during rush hour?


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## toomanynotes (Jul 11, 2022)

gohrev said:


> @NekujaK thanks for sharing that self-reflection  Agree with everything you said.
> 
> To add: Sometimes it really isn't anybody's 'fault' or even lack of awareness — If the building is constructed poorly, or in a time when soundproofing didn't exist, what are you going to do? Whisper and only flush the toilet during rush hour?


I feel for ya, you got a shit load of stress coming your way if you don't go downstairs and mention it politely, losing hair and buying an expensive wig is not the right way to go about it.
I got to say, it's annoying finding the ideal flat and finding out later...this is why it's good to visit these places in busy hours to get a feel for the place. 
You can always look for another place in the meantime!!! Good luck bro


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Jul 11, 2022)

Im living in an ex hotel with a building site 10 meters from my window. 

Since i moved in thee years ago, i got evacuated three times (WW2 500kg acid-fuse Bombs), they dug around 40 holes as deep as the ocean with drills that were as big as a house and loud as tanks. From there, everyday means hammers, drills, heavy machinery noises and the worst of all: singing or whistling workers…(i admit one guy hits the notes). Inside apartment they seem to renovate the whole rooms around me, three years now with constant drilling and noises too..and the worst of all…a high heel lady running the floors all day. (I just imitate her walking by hitting the wall…seems she noticed it and walks slower now when passing the door.)
Im not complaining. If it gets too annoying, airpods pro noice cancelling turns it into near silence. Does that all disturb me while producing? No, because i need the „life“ around me and i see (hear) that things are changing to the better.
I would hate to be in a static emptiness and completely being isolated from happenings around me.


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## Pier (Jul 11, 2022)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> No, because i need the „life“ around me and i see (hear) that things are changing to the better.
> I would hate to be in a static emptiness and completely being isolated from happenings around me.


I'm the complete opposite 😂

I hate noise. For a time I lived in an off-the-grid cabin in some mountains of Mexico and it was one of the best times of my life.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Jul 11, 2022)

Pier said:


> I'm the complete opposite 😂
> 
> I hate noise. For a time I lived in an off-the-grid cabin in some mountains of Mexico and it was one of the best times of my life.


I would see faces in everything being cut off from everything. Not a bad thing for some time, but years and id grow an unhealthy beard.


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## tressie5 (Jul 11, 2022)

I've had this Ablegrid Q10 hybrid Bluetooth ANC set for nigh on two years. Unfortunately, because of the dogs in the building and noisy neighbour upstairs, I wear them from the moment I get up to bedtime, averaging about 16 hours/day of usage. The pads are attached and they don't make replacements, so I'll have to improvise when shopping for new ones. I record, mix and master with them, and I guess because my records were signed and released by labels, they couldn't be that bad.


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## Pier (Jul 11, 2022)

tressie5 said:


> I've had this Ablegrid Q10 hybrid Bluetooth ANC set for nigh on two years. Unfortunately, because of the dogs in the building and noisy neighbour upstairs, I wear them from the moment I get up to bedtime, averaging about 16 hours/day of usage. The pads are attached and they don't make replacements, so I'll have to improvise when shopping for new ones. I record, mix and master with them, and I guess because my records were signed and released by labels, they couldn't be that bad.


What about switching to passive noise canceling?

The HD280 Pro are really good with isolation and they are quite affordable. Of course switching headphones is always a bit of a shock but for the price they are awesome.


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## tressie5 (Jul 11, 2022)

I need Bluetooth for freedom of mobility as I wear them ALL DAY nonstop, and I do listen to music and maybe watch a video or two. I went through five similar headphones over the years and these were the only ones where switching from passive to active had no effect on the bass. I'm guessing it's because they use graphene drivers. Plus, they're hybrid, attenuating sounds from outside and my own internal sounds. To be sure, though, I don't use Bluetooth as I plug them in my Presonus Studio24c when I'm recording and mixing.


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