# What's so special about Macs: Anyone compose on PC??



## theheresy (Dec 3, 2009)

Hi guys. I'm on a PC quadcore 2.5ghz with 8gb ram on 64bit system right now..but everyone is urging/pressuring me (all industry people I know) to get on a macpro and enslave the PC as a host slave. 
What's so special about Macs, is the main reason that people are on them because they want to use the Mac DAWS like Digital Performer and Logic, or is it a stability issue because they hate windows or is it a speed issue because Macpros have 8cores and unlimited ram? 
On the first issue, I prefer Cubase and have heard nothing but bad things about Logic and its 32bit nativity..
On the second issue, I concede that...Windows sucks and causes me many headaches, crashes, etc.
On the third issue, that could have been true in the past but right now with the I7 chips and all that PC's can be made much more powerful than Macpro 8cores at a fraction of the price. In truth from MY UNDERSTANDING, the chips inside of Macpros are identical and different in name only than I7's i.e. the Xenon and the Nehalem, etc...so, why does everyone in the industry use a Mac as their main DAW computer and is there anyone out there in the industry (a professional) that does their work with PC's only?? I'd love to hear from you.


----------



## Lex (Dec 3, 2009)

MAC vs PC question, seriously? 

Im on PC only.. 

aLex


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 3, 2009)

oh boy... let the war start! 

macs just work. no dealing with viruses, no dealing with wierd network stuff. its user friendly. 
even for file management its soo much better. in windows everything gets clutterly very easy and not arrows for drop down folders? now its omplemented in W7. i mean, windows just copied a bunch of mac stuff.. as mac copied from linux. 

music wise its the same reason, everything is just more (not complete!!) stable in general. but get less free plugins. 

digital performer and logic are great audio programs. 

but u also pay more for mac. but it just works.. u know how much time ive spent troubgleshooting/fixing / figuring out stuff in PC? 

as a host slave computer its better to have pc cause the work it has to do is simple and just one. 

also in pc there are waaaaaayy to many options. and most pcs look cheap and easily expendible. i still have a mac 1999 powerbook 500mhz laptop and runs fine, slow of course but has endure 10 years!!! i can still run web and office stuff and movies and stuff the general public uses it for. 

everything said of course is just my opinion and is debatable. no right answer here


----------



## José Herring (Dec 3, 2009)

Mac was first for music. So because it was first and better for many years people still think it's better for music. In my experience it is not. It depends on the program and the user. Some people are more confident on Macs. Some more confident on PC.

The difference lies in the purpose of each machine. Mac is more of a closed system so everything works out of the box and you don't have to worry about hardware conflicts. PC is an open system so many developers of hardware and software create parts for the PC. This is good and bad. 

In the end if you're careful with your PC I find it more stable than any mac ever was. I've been using my new PC hard for several months and haven't even had it freeze on me much less a full crash. It hasn't crashed in use yet which I find pretty remarkable.

So if you're comfortable on PC then stick with it. Hans Zimmer and I think JNH use PC's now so do about 1/2 the composers at Remote Control. If built right they can be amazingly flexible, fast and powerful machines, but you have to build it right.

Macs kick ass though. I love them. Don't know if I'll ever use a Mac again for my DAW but they're just cool. Ideally you should have both mac and PC. Cubase on PC and ProTools on Mac.

José


----------



## theheresy (Dec 3, 2009)

Gsilbers I understand what you're saying, it's all true but a lot of those things are so small, I mean we're talking buying something for 4000$ like a macpro 8core over a PC you can build barebones that's even more powerful probably for 1000, so spending 3000$ more on something just because it has drop down arrows or whatever little insignificant thing??? I guess only if you have the luxury to do so. 
I asked this question because I wanted to know if there were any MAJOR things that Macs had over PC's but if it's only a more "intuitive" user interface and a more "fun" OS then spending an extra 3000$ is really not that smart for me.
As for your 1999 mac laptop, well if you treat it right anything can last long. I have a 1998 PC desktop in my closet right now that still holds many valuable/sentimental things of mine and guess what? Whenever I power it up it runs flawlessly and even connects to the internet etc...it's a Gateway 450mhz (or something like that) with an upgraded 500mb of ram. Runs flawlessly and even decently fast so it just goes to show that if you take care of it anything can last you a long time.
Joseherring, that's cool you work on PC...can you tell me what gear/setup you have? 
Also, one thing I wanted to ask, you said Zimmer and co work on PC's...I know for a fact they all work on Cubase but I was almost positive they do NOT work on PC's they run Cubase on MAC...can you confirm that he actually runs it on a PC? Even on his computer screen I could have sworn I saw Mac icons rather than PC but I could be wrong...or maybe they used to run it on Macs and recently switched to PC that I don't know about? Please confirm this if you can as that would be very interesting to me to know of a major/famous composer who works on a PC as I thought that was absolutely nonexistant.


----------



## José Herring (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm pretty sure up until the summer that he was using a PC . After that he may have switched. But I wouldn't know. Haven't been there in a while.

José


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 3, 2009)

well, if u look into the price of a PC that has the same specs as the macpro 8 core is not 3000 more, its would be almost the same just a tad less. i though the same but when u add two nehalem the price will hover at around the same price as a mac pro.

as for minor things , yes your are right. they are minor but it depends on how u see it. 
but user friendly and just works out of the box for a few hundred more its totally worth it. 
but im talking more of the OS and related to hardware. jose is right with the open and close architecture of each systems. 

as for hanz zimmer.. 

he uses cubase on a MAC.. 

as for 90% of professional audio and music users 
in LA.. they also use macs. 

i seldom see a studio with a PC. even less running pro tools with a pc. 

that spells out cheap right off the bat. 

but again , just my take on it. doesnt mean i am right. only in the specs and price for a macpro and a similar PC system qith dual nehalem.


----------



## Justus (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm on PC because I'm on Cubase (for about 16 years).
It all began with Atari ST and some day I switched to PC.


----------



## chimuelo (Dec 3, 2009)

I like these kind of threads as it usually exposes the I am a Mac only, or I am a PC only kind of guy.
This can usually be translated into I can't afford both because nobody ever hires me, or I paint in only black & white even though an entire prism of colors is available. Either way it's good to know who they are so you don't waste any time taking advice from them.
You just won't hear any pro engineers or performers saying I only use a Mac, or I am a native only.
Now when someone says they're hardware only, I figure they are reading brail and have a great ear, or they would have an Audio/MIDI Sequencer.

Cheers.


----------



## rgames (Dec 3, 2009)

Ooohhh... PC vs. Mac thread. Gotta love 'em.

I've been using PC's exclusively for about 15 years now - I switched between PC and Mac before that. I always had more problems with Macs (crashes, compatibility problems, etc) so I just gave up on them. Many people have the same experience with PC's. Either is just fine for a DAW. Tastes Great. Less Filling.

Apple sells on marketing (are the latest Mac's really 8 core? I don't think so...). PC manufacturers sell on value. That's the major difference. Apple has shifted its position over the last several years but still hits you hard for the privilege of owning their plastic around other companies' electronics. Must be some good plastic... 

rgames


----------



## JohnG (Dec 3, 2009)

Mac users are young, slightly slacker-ish looking, mildly hip guys, while PC users are fat, wear glasses, pasty white, and wear painfully out of date brown-ish suits.

Obviously.


----------



## chimuelo (Dec 3, 2009)

:mrgreen: :lol: 
That sure applies to the 400lb. Elvis we have here in Vegas at the Barbary Coast.
He uses a Dell Laptop to sing over the top of. After one song he is so tired he sits and sings, and does a kind of a documentary type of thing, but you can't help from admiring the guy for having a gig like that. What else can you do when you need 2 chairs everywhere you go.


----------



## José Herring (Dec 3, 2009)

Macs are silver. PC's come in all different colors. Mine has fancy lights. Ooooohhh. Many of my clients just look at the fancy lights. I like lights. They make my music better.

But after watching that video with the Microsoft people dancing I was seriously considering ditching all my PC's.


----------



## Pando (Dec 3, 2009)

rgames @ Thu Dec 03 said:


> are the latest Mac's really 8 core? I don't think so...



Not on one processor. 8-core Macs use two Intel quad-core Xeon CPUs. You can get the same thing with PC by getting a workstation-class machine that can accept two physical quad-core Xeon CPUs.

Actually the very latest Intel Xeon processors are quad-core with hyperthreading, appearing to the operating system as having 8 processors. If you have two CPUs on the mobo, Windows will see 16 processors.


----------



## theheresy (Dec 3, 2009)

Guys I don't mean to start a mac/pc bashing thread. Only reason I am wondering is because as a PC user I have been so heavily pressured into getting macs that I am beginning to wonder what all the fuss is about. 
I was just wondering if any professionals out there used a PC and apparently there are. Jose how do you mean that you were at RCP, they don't allow visitors last I checked unless you're a big name, so how did you get in and did you really see PC's running their Cubase or were they using PC's only as hosts as I know most people do including Klaus Badelt who famously had dozens of gigastudio slave pc's, etc.


----------



## midphase (Dec 3, 2009)

I think rather than a Mac vs. PC thread...this should be more a Mac-only music apps vs. PC's

For me, nothing beats Logic Pro, I used to be on DP beforehand and now I use Logic Pro and Pro Tools for all my needs.

If you're happy with Cubase or (gasp) Nuendo, then stick with PC's.


----------



## StrangeCat (Dec 3, 2009)

I use an Amiga still I know!! LOL! =o 

It doesn't matter what the heck you use Mac, Pc? they both have the tools to get the job done.

Logic does have the best FX built in though. 

chimuelo posts says it all!


----------



## José Herring (Dec 3, 2009)

theheresy @ Thu Dec 03 said:


> Jose how do you mean that you were at RCP, they don't allow visitors last I checked unless you're a big name, so how did you get in and did you really see PC's running their Cubase or were they using PC's only as hosts as I know most people do including Klaus Badelt who famously had dozens of gigastudio slave pc's, etc.



I've had the good fortune of helping out one of the sound designers at Remote control from time to time. It's been wonderful and I've been learning a lot.

José


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 3, 2009)

josejherring @ Thu Dec 03 said:


> theheresy @ Thu Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Jose how do you mean that you were at RCP, they don't allow visitors last I checked unless you're a big name, so how did you get in and did you really see PC's running their Cubase or were they using PC's only as hosts as I know most people do including Klaus Badelt who famously had dozens of gigastudio slave pc's, etc.
> ...


]

also if you know somone like an assistant or mixer or doing a few dozen interviews maybe you can get in easily... :roll: :wink: 

that hanz guy.. pretty cool.. not the same for a bold guy there.. u can see his craiglist posts looking for assistant every few months.. wonder why?? :mrgreen: 

as for the setup over there.... that u seemed interested: 

every one there has a mac for main DAW... 4-8 slave PCs normally but there also some guys who use 25 pcs!! but its from the pentium days. 

or the rumor has it that klaus badelt is using only 2 TOTAL with bidule thing.. (maybe im wrong) 
check out cinesamples.com/videos to see this option. 
most common is DP and Logic, but cubase is also widley used. 

then they have a dubbing computer with pro tools whcih is a mixer and videos playback. this one is also a mac. 

some guys use another computer to use ableton live. which does pretty cool stuff. 
this computer is also a mac. 


hans zimmer has a battalion of server hosts. i saw a mountain of servers.. kid you not.. one of top of the other 1U rack units reached my height. that where being replaced or where the replacements . i think they where DElls. 
he uses MADI to connect everything to his HD7 pro tools using the Delta SSL and adat to madi converters. 
he has his own samples that are 7.1 at 192k or something brutal like that. there is stereo version which is the ones i heard that sound amazing. 
much more stuff also... but the there is a default setup which the one i explain. 
so id say there are more pcs because they need more slaves... computers not assistants :mrgreen:


----------



## José Herring (Dec 3, 2009)

gsilbers @ Thu Dec 03 said:


> every one there has a mac for main DAW...



Absolutely not true.


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 3, 2009)

josejherring @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> ...The difference lies in the purpose of each machine. Mac is more of a closed system so everything works out of the box and you don't have to worry about hardware conflicts. PC is an open system so many developers of hardware and software create parts for the PC. This is good and bad. ....
> 
> José



Thats it. There are many good stores where you can buy PC`s what are optimized for music / Daws.


----------



## José Herring (Dec 3, 2009)

germancomponist @ Thu Dec 03 said:


> josejherring @ Fri Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > ...The difference lies in the purpose of each machine. Mac is more of a closed system so everything works out of the box and you don't have to worry about hardware conflicts. PC is an open system so many developers of hardware and software create parts for the PC. This is good and bad. ....
> ...



Of course there are. They do all the work for you. Or you can do what I did and that is contact them and ask them what parts they use. Then save a grand or two and build it yourself.

José


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 3, 2009)

And don`t forget that you can run the most old software with the newest Windows 7. 

I remember there was a big trouble in the Mac world after they had changed their OS.


----------



## Andreas Moisa (Dec 4, 2009)

I recently bought a Mac Pro, before that I used PCs - and I'm still using a Win 7x64 PC as a Slave.

I found that the Mac has pros and cons compared to PCs:

Pros:

-looks great, seriously (adds to feeling good in my studio)
-Raw Power with 16 virtual Cores
-No internet problems (my PCs, especially since Vista and then Win7 have trouble connecting to the internet)
-OS has cool features (file management, Screen Sharing, Expose and Spaces Networking between Macs, etc.)
-boots much faster than PCs
-my current setup is the most stable I EVER (!) had, Mac Master, PC Slave (VE Pro)
-use all RAM with Kontakt although it's 32-Bit
-networking with PCs work great, too
-no Viruses
-no "tuning" necessary


Cons

-slightly more noisy than well built PCs
-waaaay to less USB Ports
-only 4 Hard-drive Bays
-USB Problems (sometimes my mouse isn't found...)
-sluggish GUI feel
-much, much more expensive
-no 64-Bit Hosts/Plugins (except VE PRo and Stylus RMX)
-NO CUT AND PASTE !?!?!##Ö*!&%&%$! WTF?
-No Wavelab

So as someone knowing both platforms I have to say that there is no real reason to favor one over the other, except you're using software that's for one platform only.

Regarding RCP, in 2008 Hans used a PC with Cubase SX 3 as main computer, and why wouldn't he? If you're using this simply as a MIDI Playbackk machine I guess it's pretty stable. Behind this is an armada of PC Slaves and as Mixer there is Pro Tools...


----------



## NYC Composer (Dec 4, 2009)

theheresy @ Thu Dec 03 said:


> Guys I don't mean to start a mac/pc bashing thread. Only reason I am wondering is because as a PC user I have been so heavily pressured into getting macs that I am beginning to wonder what all the fuss is about.
> I was just wondering if any professionals out there used a PC and apparently there are. Jose how do you mean that you were at RCP, they don't allow visitors last I checked unless you're a big name, so how did you get in and did you really see PC's running their Cubase or were they using PC's only as hosts as I know most people do including Klaus Badelt who famously had dozens of gigastudio slave pc's, etc.



Who's 'pressuring' you, and why on earth would you care?


----------



## chimuelo (Dec 4, 2009)

I nailed down a small venue at the new City Center in Las Vegas back in 2008, but since then Dubai International has reassigned some of their oversea scouts/agents, and I was told my contract was invalid unless I re auditioned. Thankfully I have tipped every stage hand in Las Vegas at least once or twice so I got a heads up he was a Mac only guy.
I went to a Pawn shop and bought 2 dead PPC Mac's and set them on top of my shortest rack, and Lo' & Behold the chap told me I didn't need to set everything back up and audition.........
Thank God he'a a Mac only kind of guy 'cause I lost the actress/model/entertainer/hooker/singer and was going to play my 2 handed Hendrix stuff....... =o 
That stuff usually goes over like a Reggea Band at a Klan Rally with the Arab cats.
http://forums.planetz.com/download/file.php?id=5914

I also have this giant " Ghost Fader " I use for when a high roller loses a 500 USD bet and blames the band. They cry to the pit boss and they snap their fingers and wave to us to turn down, So I make sure this fader is really big and can be seen easily, I then act as though I have pulled it down with all the force in my body, then look to recieve the O.K. signal.
It's cool because we never change a thing, and everyone's happy as they nod like something actually occured.........................Ankyu.


----------



## nikolas (Dec 4, 2009)

JBacal uses a PC and this was quite reassuring for me! :D


----------



## lux (Dec 4, 2009)

PPPPPPPPPPPCCCCCCCCCCCCCC


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 4, 2009)

Are the MACs more an image thing today? :-D


----------



## Aaron Sapp (Dec 4, 2009)

When I moved to L.A., I got a call to work with Klaus Badelt on a project. Everybody on the team had a Mac, except me. The team feared a PC guy would stunt the overall workflow somehow. So I didn't get the gig. 

So, another reason to get Macs. You lose fewer gigs. /\~O


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 4, 2009)

Maybe it's me but seems that most pc users here are from Europe could it be also cultural thing . Mac hasn't had much market penetration outside the us. 
Just wondering


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 4, 2009)

Aaron Sapp @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> When I moved to L.A., I got a call to work with Klaus Badelt on a project. Everybody on the team had a Mac, except me. The team feared a PC guy would stunt the overall workflow somehow. So I didn't get the gig.
> 
> So, another reason to get Macs. You lose fewer gigs. /\~O



as i mentioned before... having a PC in a studio here in LA or someone working with a PC doing music/audio spells out cheap and "wannabes". i am not saying it is true but its just how the perception is around here in LA. like if u worked programming video games or networks with macs (+OSX) of course none of those platforms has to do with anything cause u can whatever nowadays...


----------



## bryla (Dec 4, 2009)

Not true gsilbers. Mac is very common in European production companies


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 4, 2009)

ok. cool. good to know. seemed most of the folks here from europe use pc. i guess not thenm

BTW... "that guy" is hiring again.. 

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/tfr/1493663210.html (http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/tf ... 63210.html)


and yep, need to know mac to get the gig.. if u want that gig :|


----------



## Guy Bacos (Dec 4, 2009)

I use Mac for many of the reasons already listed, it's also much more aesthetic and I like that side a lot. However, for anyone with the intention of using MIR at some point, you will have no choice than to go with PC. The dual method on a MAC is ok but you don't get the full benefits as a PC.


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 4, 2009)

josejherring @ Thu Dec 03 said:


> gsilbers @ Thu Dec 03 said:
> 
> 
> > every one there has a mac for main DAW...
> ...



sooo.. 

almost all? 

half and half? 

almost none?


----------



## theheresy (Dec 4, 2009)

nikolas @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> JBacal uses a PC and this was quite reassuring for me! :D



Who is jbacal??


----------



## theheresy (Dec 4, 2009)

Aaron Sapp @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> When I moved to L.A., I got a call to work with Klaus Badelt on a project. Everybody on the team had a Mac, except me. The team feared a PC guy would stunt the overall workflow somehow. So I didn't get the gig.
> 
> So, another reason to get Macs. You lose fewer gigs. /\~O



See this is exactly the sort of thing I mean by "pressure", I too plan on trying to get internship type jobs etc eventually with pro composers and/or in pro studios and being on a PC as others have stated is seen as "amateur" and most people won't accept you. I mean technically I'm in a studio right now because I study privately with a film composer as we speak who says that eventually he might use me on upcoming projects of his but he won't do so unless I switch to a Mac because he uses Logic and I need to know Logic and be able to share projects with him etc!


----------



## Guy Bacos (Dec 4, 2009)

theheresy @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> nikolas @ Fri Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > JBacal uses a PC and this was quite reassuring for me! :D
> ...



Jay is one of the best demo makers around, has done amazing mock ups such as The "Rite of Spring" and lately "Adventures on Earth" by John Williams for VSL . However I disagree with Nikolas that this is a reason cause it's not the computer that did this, it is Jay's artistry, not what technology he uses, he probably could of done the same on a Mac.


----------



## theheresy (Dec 4, 2009)

gsilbers @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> ok. cool. good to know. seemed most of the folks here from europe use pc. i guess not thenm
> 
> BTW... "that guy" is hiring again..
> 
> ...



See, further proof that you can't "get ahead" in this biz without being on a damn Mac. 

Who is that guy anyway...emmy award television at RCP hmm can't think who that would be..any ideas?


----------



## theheresy (Dec 4, 2009)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> Jay is one of the best demo makers around, has done amazing mock ups such as The Rite of Spring and lately "Adventures on Earth" by John Williams. However I disagree with Nikolas that this is a reason cause it's not the computer that did this it is JAY.



OOhh wait is he the guy whose demos are plastered all over VSL's site? In fact I remember you from there too I think Guy..lol, score one for the vsl team =o


----------



## theheresy (Dec 4, 2009)

and you guys are right seems all the PC guys are in europe. I bet you $100 oops I mean 100 euros that it's because that retarded mac/pc commercial with Justin Long never appeared or never took off in europe so they never had the mac craze that all the youngins here in the U.S. did.


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 4, 2009)

theheresy @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> gsilbers @ Fri Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > ok. cool. good to know. seemed most of the folks here from europe use pc. i guess not thenm
> ...



if u read my previous post and follow the clues... u might figure it out. 

maybe if i just graduated from music/filmscore school age 22 or less id do it. 
but from reading this its getting worst.. one month free?! wtf.. before was $300 a week with no overtime and work is from 8am to whenever he is finished.. 3am... back again at 8am.. no weekends. just to be in the privileged RCP and under a "emmy" winner. didnt musolini win a bunch of prices? :mrgreen:


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 4, 2009)

In the past MACs were much more expensive than a PC here in Europe. When you want the same power with a PC now, I think at least there is no big different in pricing now. 

I know some composers here in Germany who also are smiling when they hear that someone is using a PC. 

But, a good built PC for audio is now in the same liga as the MACs, or maybe better. 

When you want more USB outs on your MAC, what can you do? More built in drives, more this and that....? 

And Logic with its old audio engine in 32bit?????  And Pro Tools, oops, we here in Germany have the company MAGIX with their great Samplitude and Sequoja for PC. The most Sample-library-producer uses Sequoja, also in America.

I think in some years "MAC or PC", this will be not a theme anymore.


----------



## SvK (Dec 4, 2009)

Dude every mac pro comes with 4!!! drive slot....every mac pro can be updated to 128 GIG of RAM!!

SvK


----------



## SvK (Dec 4, 2009)

furthermore...as a German you should appreciate excellence in engineering...

Have you ever handled / opened up a Mac Pro?

also...... A Mac can be a PC....bootcamp.

SvK


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 4, 2009)

i actually agree with that! 

im not sure what the deal is with snow leopard if its really 64 bit this time, cause leopard was supposely 64 bit. and logic and dp not going 64 bit and other apps as well? WTF! ? 

and dont bring me the BS about "other ways " of getting memory via memory servers and stuff that makes everything less stable. we need 64 bit a long time ago. its been posible a lont time ago.. just because we are not like the biggest target market of computer users who use it for web and email and maybe ripping dvds doesnt mean we and programmers should stall on this.


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 4, 2009)

SvK @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> Dude every mac pro comes with 4!!! drive slot....every mac pro can be updated to 128 GIG of RAM!!
> 
> SvK



Sure, I know. Also when you spend the same money for a PC you get..... . 

The time when MACs were better computers is over. This is what I wanted to say. Not more, not less.

No fight please! o-[][]-o


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 4, 2009)

SvK @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> furthermore...as a German you should appreciate excellence in engineering...
> 
> Have you ever handled / opened up a Mac Pro?
> 
> ...



Hòf[   ¹(ff[   ¹(gf[   ¹(hf[   ¹(if[   ¹(jf[   ¹(kf[   ¹(lf[   ¹(mf[   ¹(nf[   ¹(of[   ¹(pf[   ¹(qf[   ¹(rf[   ¹(sf[   ¹(tf[   ¹(uf[   ¹(vf[   ¹(wf[   ¹(xf[   ¹(yf[   ¹(zf[   ¹({f[   ¹(|f[   ¹(}f[   ¹(~f[   ¹(f[   ¹(€f[   ¹(f[   ¹(‚f[   ¹(ƒf[   ¹(„f[   ¹(…f[   ¹(


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 4, 2009)

I'd like to beat the crap about of both those guys in the commercials and I don't have a man crush on Steve Jobs. But I still disagree with these points:



"-slightly more noisy than well built PCs"

The current desktop ones aren't unless they get very hot, in which case the fans go like blazes - which is actually a good safety feature.

"-waaaay to less USB Ports"

I believe they have five. USB hubs are very cheap, though.

"-only 4 Hard-drive Bays"

And two optical slots, yes.

But those bays in the Mac Pro are brilliant! You just put in the four screws - which don't come all the way out because of a plastic collar that holds them in place by friction - and slide them in.

Also, there are two unused SATA ports on the Mac Pro motherboard that you can route to an eSATA bracket that fits in a PCI slot (the one next to the video card is blank). You can get those brackets with the right-angle cables for about $10 from Newegg.


"-USB Problems (sometimes my mouse isn't found...)"

That's a problem specific to your system. I've been using Macs every day all day long since 1985 and never had that happen.

"-sluggish GUI feel"

Compared to what? Certainly not Vista, and these days it's comparable to my XP machines.

"-much, much more expensive"

At the lower end, yes. The original Mac Pros were a few hundred dollars less than comparable parts on the internet that you put together yourself, and the current ones are comparably priced. It's the processors that make them so expensive.

No question, though, there's a reason Apple has $30 billion sitting in a closet.

"-no 64-Bit Hosts/Plugins (except VE PRo and Stylus RMX)"

Yup.

"-NO CUT AND PASTE !?!?!##Ö*!&%&%$! WTF?"

I don't understand. Even the original Mac 512K had a clipboard.

"-No Wavelab"

True, but then there's Redmatica Compendium.


But I do still think Windows 7 or Vista 64 machines make more sense for sample slaves today because of the 64-bit factor.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 4, 2009)

> When I moved to L.A., I got a call to work with Klaus Badelt on a project. Everybody on the team had a Mac, except me. The team feared a PC guy would stunt the overall workflow somehow. So I didn't get the gig.
> 
> So, another reason to get Macs. You lose fewer gigs.



In all fairness, they have a very specific collaborative workflow that involves everyone having clones of the same system and using the same software. You have to be able to open the session, work on it, and pass it on intact.

I think it's a good idea to become functional in all the major programs on both Mac and Windows if you're going to do that kind of work.


----------



## José Herring (Dec 4, 2009)

I've been in plenty of professional studios both mac and pc and while people do have their preferences I really haven't run across anything that you mention.

I've also known guys that produce major records with Sonar. So who I am to judge.

In the end the only thing that counts is the music and the money. If the tools will get you there then use them. Mac and PC.

Plus the chicks dig guys that can make their own machines :wink: 

José


----------



## José Herring (Dec 4, 2009)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> > When I moved to L.A., I got a call to work with Klaus Badelt on a project. Everybody on the team had a Mac, except me. The team feared a PC guy would stunt the overall workflow somehow. So I didn't get the gig.
> >
> > So, another reason to get Macs. You lose fewer gigs.
> 
> ...



I agree Aaron. I know Hans shares protools sessions with his composers. Some of them use PC some of them use Mac as their main daw, but they transfer work over their server in PT audio sessions. If you're looking to do a lot of work for other composers getting a used G5 with some protools software might be a good idea for you. Then as the money comes in step it up to an HD system. One guy I know uses Cubase on PC and he has his system set up to transfer audio data via madi directly to and from pt to cubase. It works flawlessly.

José


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 4, 2009)

josejherring @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> I've been in plenty of professional studios both mac and pc and while people do have their preferences I really haven't run across anything that you mention.
> 
> I've also known guys that produce major records with Sonar. So who I am to judge.
> 
> ...



agree


----------



## The_Dark_Knight (Dec 4, 2009)

I think the moral of the story is, most professionals need to use *both *anyway. The platform of choice is actually both. 8) There's only one system at the moment which actually covers both, that is Mac. So just from a dollar sign point of view you're getting *2 *workstation environments for the price of one system. XP ROCKS on my Imac.

You can't compare the hardware at all...Because on mac the software plays a key role in the harmony of the system. How well the software exploits the operating system is a paramount factor in performance. Apple literally has a hand in developing logic EXCLUSIVELY optimized for their OS...Microsoft has no such alternative. When you deal in terms of which is faster you have to consider the way in which MAC applications are designed to interoperate with one another as well as with the OS. Windows and Microsoft applications do not have efficiency built in, they have viruses built in. :mrgreen:


----------



## rgames (Dec 4, 2009)

The_Dark_Knight @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> How well the software exploits the operating system is a paramount factor in performance.



Which is why massively parallel computing clusters use neither Windows nor OSX - they use Linux. They do use PC hardware, of course.

re: virus: in decades of computer use I've only ever encountered one virus (on a PC). That was about 10 years ago.

rgames


----------



## Frederick Russ (Dec 4, 2009)

JohnG @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> PCs cause the user to have more back hair.



Whereas Mac users can count on more chest hair.


----------



## Lex (Dec 4, 2009)

Wow..so from what I can see here, there is still bunch of "environments" where the Dinosaur rule "..if you r not on Mac you just ain't PRO" applies? 
How about someones shoes? Or underpants? Can they tell you a lot too about how they mix/compose/produce?



aLex


----------



## The_Dark_Knight (Dec 4, 2009)

Why do pc users have such an inferiority complex. Look....we are allowed to like macs and also praise them for what they do well. C'mon dudes, no one said don't use pc, we said why we prefer macs for media work over pc. And also at the end of the day, both are needed. Why fight about it.


----------



## gsilbers (Dec 4, 2009)

Oh these threads are soo much fun. 

all very subjective , unlike my technical thread about the i7 which no one has replied :(


----------



## Lex (Dec 4, 2009)

..loving them, praising them, preferring them, asking people who work with you to be compatible to what you like..is one thing...

Thinking that someone is less able or less professional 'cause they are not on MAC, is just...well just...cant find a word that would be acceptable in this forum.

aLex


----------



## The_Dark_Knight (Dec 4, 2009)

Who said that? No one did. The professionals I work with are humble folks in the first place, I mean it's just making tunes guys. They most definitely don't care which OS you use, even if it is Linux.

Now if you want to work with someone in particular or in a specific region, you might have to adjust., maybe even use samplitude or notion. 

If your system spits out wav or aiff you should be fine generally.


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 4, 2009)

Lex @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> ..loving them, praising them, preferring them, asking people who work with you to be compatible to what you like..is one thing...
> 
> Thinking that someone is less able or less professional 'cause they are not on MAC, is just...well just...cant find a word that would be acceptable in this forum.
> 
> aLex



o-[][]-o


----------



## Frederick Russ (Dec 4, 2009)

Lex @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> ..loving them, praising them, preferring them, asking people who work with you to be compatible to what you like..is one thing...
> 
> Thinking that someone is less able or less professional 'cause they are not on MAC, is just...well just...cant find a word that would be acceptable in this forum.
> 
> aLex



Seems the industry keeps going back and forth between PCs and Macs. When I first got into this back in '98, PCs were the only thing around thòfž   ¹3fž   ¹3fž   ¹3fž   ¹3fž   ¹3fž   ¹3	fž   ¹3
fž   ¹3fŸ   ¹3fŸ   ¹3fŸ   ¹3fŸ   ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3f    ¹3 f    ¹3!f    ¹3"f    ¹3#f    ¹3$f    ¹3%f    ¹3&f    ¹3'f    ¹3(f    ¹3)f    ¹3*f    ¹3+f    ¹3,f    ¹3-f    ¹3.f    ¹3/f    ¹30f    ¹31f    ¹32f    ¹33f    ¹34f    ¹35f    ¹36f    ¹37f    ¹38f    ¹39f    ¹3:f    ¹3;f    ¹3<f    ¹3=f    ¹3>f    ¹3?f    ¹[email protected]f    ¹3Af    ¹3Bf    ¹3Cf    ¹3Df    ¹3Ef    ¹3Ff    ¹3Gf    ¹3Hf    ¹3If    ¹3Jf    ¹3Kf    ¹3Lf    ¹3Mf    ¹3Nf    ¹3Of    ¹3Pf    ¹3Qf    ¹3Rf    ¹3Sf    ¹3Tf    ¹3Uf    ¹3Vf    ¹3Wf    ¹3Xf    ¹3Yf    ¹3Zf    ¹3[f    ¹3\f    ¹3]f    ¹3^f    ¹3_f    ¹3`f    ¹3af    ¹3bf    ¹3cf    ¹3df    ¹3ef    ¹3ff    ¹3gf    ¹3hf    ¹3if    ¹3jf    ¹3k


----------



## theheresy (Dec 4, 2009)

LOL I'm also finding it quite funny about people keep mentioning "viruses" as a big problem on PC...LOL!!! Viruses don't even exist anymore folks...waht the heck is a virus anyway? I've used PC's since about 1994 and I've gotten ONE virus in my entire life and it was probably around 1997.


----------



## The_Dark_Knight (Dec 4, 2009)

theheresy @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> LOL I'm also finding it quite funny about people keep mentioning "viruses" as a big problem on PC...LOL!!! Viruses don't even exist anymore folks...waht the heck is a virus anyway? I've used PC's since about 1994 and I've gotten ONE virus in my entire life and it was probably around 1997.



Well I guess Trend Micro, McAFee, Norton, Zone Alarm can all retire then, since pc's are virus free. C'MOOONNN...that's insane. Not only do they get viruses every day, check the websites of any of the companies I mentioned...but they are hacked more as well. 

I'm getting a troll like vibe from this thread now. :(


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 4, 2009)

And if there is no new virus arround, these companies produce an own one...., as an argument to buy their anti-virus-software. LOL :-D


----------



## The_Dark_Knight (Dec 4, 2009)

germancomponist @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> And if there is no new virus arround, these companies produce an own one...., as an argument to buy their anti-virus-software. LOL :-D



Assuming they do this, they only do it on the PC side. (o)


----------



## JohnG (Dec 4, 2009)

Mac users' wives / girlfriends are 25% more attractive. Statistically.


----------



## rgames (Dec 4, 2009)

JohnG @ Fri Dec 04 said:


> Mac users' wives / girlfriends are 25% more attractive. Statistically.



If their wives / girlfriends are also Mac users then, apparently, they also have more chest hair 

rgames


----------



## Hans Adamson (Dec 4, 2009)

The selling argument that Mac computers are more creative is old now. The new argument is just as compelling though. I see these ads on TV all the time: PC users are old, boring, ugly and stupid, while Mac users are hip, young, smart dressing and chic. So which one do you want to be? It is all up to you. Of course, if you are already young, smart dressing and chic etc, you don't need a Mac, I guess. 8) ~o)


----------



## JohnG (Dec 4, 2009)

rgames @ 4th December 2009 said:


> If their wives / girlfriends are also Mac users then, apparently, they also have more chest hair



When you care enough to send the furry breast.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 4, 2009)

> Seems the industry keeps going back and forth between PCs and Macs. When I first got into this back in '98, PCs were the only thing around that harbored GigaStudio's DFD streaming. If you were on Mac, you were pretty much left out in the cold. This was the case for some time. The only thing around was perhaps Halion for Mac. Mac was the "un-pro" machine back then.



People ran Giga, but the Mac was still the one people ran their DAWs on...for the simple reason that the only game in town was Pro Tools, and if you wanted to run Pro Tools you ran a Mac. PC digital audio took years to catch up. Years.



> which one do you want to be



As I posted, I want to beat the crap out of both those guys - the fat one because he's conservative and was nasty when he roasted Obama, and the other one because he thinks he's hip.


----------



## Mr. Anxiety (Dec 4, 2009)

Been using a Dual Zenon PC as my DAW with Nuendo for 5 years now. Many, many serious projects in film and TV. Absolutely no problems, flawless performance. VisionDAW built, as is all my server PCs (6). Delivered wav files to the stage via Nuendo for 3 of the years. 

Then bought ProTools HD so I could get rid of my consoles and use the PT interfaces as my sampler/instrument inputs. Mac for PT, obviously. Still working great!


They both work well!

Mr. A.


----------



## hbuus (Dec 5, 2009)

Sometime next year I'm gonna make myself a new user account with a randomly picked pseudo name and then start another Mac vs. PC thread. It's that much fun!

Henrik


----------



## SvK (Dec 5, 2009)

I'd be willing to wager money on this:

Republicans use PCs
Democrats use Mac

ps: that being said, my republican slave does pipe into my democratic master. 



SvK


----------



## Thonex (Dec 5, 2009)

I choose whatever runs my DAW software better. 

I run Nuendo... so PC it is... at least for now. 

Now... Macs run Nuendo really well too.. but on a PC, Nuendo is more responsive and efficient. Or at least that the way it was last I checked.

Mac OS hands down though... in my opinion.

AK


----------



## Guy Bacos (Dec 5, 2009)

theheresy @ Thu Dec 03 said:


> What's so special about Macs?



You get a free pie when you buy one.


----------



## bryla (Dec 5, 2009)

what?!? where's my pie?!


----------



## rJames (Dec 5, 2009)

SvK @ Sat Dec 05 said:


> I'd be willing to wager money on this:
> 
> Republicans use PCs
> Democrats use Mac
> ...



If only you were King of the World.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Dec 5, 2009)

bryla @ Sat Dec 05 said:


> what?!? where's my pie?!



I'd call applecare immediately!


----------



## bryla (Dec 5, 2009)

Is it only apple pie then?


----------



## Guy Bacos (Dec 5, 2009)

bryla @ Sat Dec 05 said:


> Is it only apple pie then?



lol Good one! :D


----------



## chimuelo (Dec 5, 2009)

You know I been poppin' in & out of for a few years and finally have seen a thread where eveyone isn't so uptight.
Lots of humor, usually these threads are uptight posing with the Mac & PC stuff.
Glad to see this place can be festive w/o free VST's or 50 dollar String Libraries.

Happy Holidays,........ o-[][]-o


----------



## NYC Composer (Dec 6, 2009)

Oh, I dunno. I just finished reading through this whole dumb thread and now my brain hurts. Now I just want to kick the ass of the next computer user who disagrees about my personal choice of hardware.

To the OP- give in. Don't fight it. You are in the power of the Great Apple Conspiracy. Resistance is futile. Have some pie.


----------



## nikolas (Dec 6, 2009)

bryla @ Sat Dec 05 said:


> what?!? where's my pie?!


Who cares about pies? When I met my (to be then) wife, I thought to myself: "Time to got to the PC camp and never leave! This chick is 125% sexy!" (Now hopefull, she'll never visit VI to check her husband calling her "a chick"! :D)


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 6, 2009)

> Now I just want to kick the ass of the next computer user who disagrees about my personal choice of hardware



I'd suggest kicking ass first and then asking about the computer. You stand to get a better workout that way.


----------



## MaraschinoMusic (Dec 6, 2009)

It doesn't matter in the slightest, it depends what works for you - and what platform you are most familiar with.

I started with Notator on an Atari, then went to Logic on a PC.
I was so disappointed when Apple bought Emagic and discontinued PC support for Logic, that I vowed I would never buy a Mac, in order to teach them a lesson!

I now use Pro Tools on PC (and still use Logic 5.5.1 sometimes) and I've never lost a gig because of my choice of platform - even working on projects alongside Mac guys. I've never regretted staying with PCs.

Macs are good however, because the big ones come with a Coke & fries...


----------



## theheresy (Dec 6, 2009)

well just for the record everyone I just used Logic on a Mac for the first time ever today for many hours and thought it was the most unintuitive heap of CRAP I've ever used in my life compared to Cubase. It took me hours just to figure out how to route a damn instrument track and get sounds to come. Thank god I'm on Cubase/PC. That is all. 

(flame on)
o-[][]-o o-[][]-o o-[][]-o =o :mrgreen:


----------



## Guy Bacos (Dec 6, 2009)

Musictronics @ Sun Dec 06 said:


> Macs are good however, because the big ones come with a Coke & fries...



No, a pie!


----------



## rgames (Dec 6, 2009)

theheresy @ Mon Dec 07 said:


> well just for the record everyone I just used Logic on a Mac for the first time ever today for many hours and thought it was the most unintuitive heap of CRAP I've ever used in my life compared to Cubase. It took me hours just to figure out how to route a damn instrument track and get sounds to come. Thank god I'm on Cubase/PC. That is all.
> 
> (flame on)
> o-[][]-o o-[][]-o o-[][]-o =o :mrgreen:



_<sound of yawning>_

Sorry - you won't get a rise out of anyone on this board on that sort of debate. You need to discuss politics to do that 

rgames


----------



## theheresy (Dec 7, 2009)

bryla @ Mon Dec 07 said:


> theheresy @ Mon Dec 07 said:
> 
> 
> > It took me hours just to figure out how to route a damn instrument track and get sounds to come.
> ...



indeed things developed by the unintelligent often require the extraordinarily intelligent to use them

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 7, 2009)

And yet tens of thousands of people around the world use Logic every day.


----------



## theheresy (Dec 7, 2009)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Dec 07 said:


> And yet tens of thousands of people around the world use Logic every day.



Gives one a sense of optimism for humanity, huh?

:lol: :lol: :lol: 0oD o/~ o=< o-[][]-o


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 7, 2009)

Or for Logic, because as I've said before, statistically some of them would have to be total morons!


----------



## The_Dark_Knight (Dec 7, 2009)

When I first got logic version 4.....I had the same reaction. I thought that Cakewalk did more of what I wanted. The MIDI effects, quicker note entry via staff somehow. I hated Logic and even returned it. Looked ugly compared to Pro Audio 8. Actually it was a company that I was working for who wanted me to switch to it. So eventually I bought it again and decided to perform most of the material into the score editor with the keyboard instead of trying to enter it manually. This worked well(?), so I stuck with it and eventually got more used to using the score editor to adjust the performances as needed. Cakewalks staff editor is more powerful still...wait why am I on logic? WTF???


----------



## theheresy (Dec 7, 2009)

well in all fairness I plan to get a mac eventually and logic as well just to expand my knowledge and become more well rounded. I just found it strange how unintuitive the gui in logic was compared to cubase, but then again maybe I'm one of the statistical morons. :shock: 8) :lol: 0oD


----------



## theheresy (Dec 7, 2009)

anyone selling any macpros, macbook pros, and/or Logic?


----------



## theheresy (Dec 7, 2009)

Musictronics @ Mon Dec 07 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Dec 08 said:
> 
> 
> > And yet tens of thousands of people around the world use Logic every day.
> ...


Macintosh?? Logic 5?? Ladies and gentlemen we have the world's first confirmed time traveler. Date of origin 1983. 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Kidding! :mrgreen:


----------



## MaraschinoMusic (Dec 7, 2009)

theheresy @ Tue Dec 08 said:


> Musictronics @ Mon Dec 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Dec 08 said:
> ...



I'm sorry - perhaps I should have been clearer for the statistical few.
*Later than v.5.5.1* is what I meant :mrgreen:


----------



## bryla (Dec 8, 2009)

theheresy @ Tue Dec 08 said:


> well in all fairness I plan to get a mac eventually and logic as well just to expand my knowledge and become more well rounded. I just found it strange how unintuitive the gui in logic was compared to cubase, but then again maybe I'm one of the statistical morons. :shock: 8) :lol: 0oD


It seems strange that you want to buy something you find very unintuitive to work with.


----------



## theheresy (Dec 8, 2009)

bryla @ Tue Dec 08 said:


> theheresy @ Tue Dec 08 said:
> 
> 
> > well in all fairness I plan to get a mac eventually and logic as well just to expand my knowledge and become more well rounded. I just found it strange how unintuitive the gui in logic was compared to cubase, but then again maybe I'm one of the statistical morons. :shock: 8) :lol: 0oD
> ...



unintuitive initially maybe, but there's got to be a reason why a lot of people use it. Honestly at the "top" level (hollywood composers) more of them seem to use DP than Logic but you still gotta admit Logic has a good marketshare up there so there's got to be a reason for that so I'd like to get acquainted with everything.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 8, 2009)

Of course you're not going to go wrong with any of these programs. As I always enjoy hearing myself say, they've been worked on non-stop for decades by some very bright people.

But bryla, intuition is only a factor before you know the program. Once you've learned it the question is how easily it fits your workflow (or v.v. how easily you can fit its workflow).

And the one thing about Logic that both makes it such a great program and makes it so intimidating for some people at the beginning is precisely that it's so flexible. You can set it up to behave exactly the way you want it, in fact I don't think two people use it the same way; conversely that means you must set it up exactly the way you want it before it becomes quick to get around.


----------



## stevenson-again (Dec 8, 2009)

> And the one thing about Logic that both makes it such a great program and makes it so intimidating for some people at the beginning is precisely that it's so flexible. You can set it up to behave exactly the way you want it, in fact I don't think two people use it the same way; conversely that means you must set it up exactly the way you want it before it becomes quick to get around.



nick have i seen you speak (or write) a truer word. logic's traditional strnegth has been in it's customizability. i am fond of hearing myself say that it is like buying cloth to make a suit, as opposed to buying a suit ready made. ok, it might be a little fiddly at first to make the suit but at least you will be able to get one that fits you exactly.


----------



## theheresy (Dec 8, 2009)

stevenson-again @ Tue Dec 08 said:


> > And the one thing about Logic that both makes it such a great program and makes it so intimidating for some people at the beginning is precisely that it's so flexible. You can set it up to behave exactly the way you want it, in fact I don't think two people use it the same way; conversely that means you must set it up exactly the way you want it before it becomes quick to get around.
> 
> 
> 
> nick have i seen you speak (or write) a truer word. logic's traditional strnegth has been in it's customizability. i am fond of hearing myself say that it is like buying cloth to make a suit, as opposed to buying a suit ready made. ok, it might be a little fiddly at first to make the suit but at least you will be able to get one that fits you exactly.



well see, all this is encouraging. I definitely shall not write logic off


----------

