# Windows 11 Unveiling



## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)




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## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)

I guess in a nutshell:

More "calm" design. 
Cool widgets and ways for windows to remember your window/app setups for ease of workflows. 
New windows store. but also companies can make their own store at zero commission. 
And also amazon store and being able to open android apps. TEAM integrations for all platforms. 
something about gaming. 

I like it. Seems more refined version of several things windows 10 was trying to do in the user experience side. and also integration with other companies.


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## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)

Nice that its looking like macOS though 

Didn't seem it got too crazy technical under the hood with changes.

And I have the feeling that the future lies in that TEAMS app. Because its almost like a cell phone, messenger and video chat all in one. which means it would convert small devices like the surface duo into a full on smartphone minus cell service, which for many in big cities is not a big issue.


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## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)

oh, the zero commission windows App Store is a good swipe at apple.


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## Hadrondrift (Jun 24, 2021)

Windows 11 seems to require an active UEFI, Secure Boot and TPM 2.0. That could hit some users by surprise, needs a (moderately) modern motherboard. I hope it will not be a pain in the butt to reconfigure my multi boot system. Still booting via legacy BIOS.

You'll potentially need new hardware if you PC is older than about 5 years.


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## Technostica (Jun 24, 2021)

The good news is that it should be easy to turn off a BIOS setting thus making it incompatible, meaning that MS can't try and force an upgrade on you. 
I am starting to like this new version as it means I can stay on 10 without MS hassling me.


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## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)

3DC said:


> I checked my fairly new system and apparently I have to buy a new licence for windows 11.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



well at least is not paying 3x as much for hardware like apple does it.


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## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)

Hadrondrift said:


> Windows 11 seems to require an active UEFI, Secure Boot and TPM 2.0. That could hit some users by surprise, needs a (moderately) modern motherboard. I hope it will not be a pain in the butt to reconfigure my multi boot system. Still booting via legacy BIOS.
> 
> You'll potentially need new hardware if you PC is older than about 5 years.



that one way to do it. apple has pulling that for a while now. maybe itll help windows run smoother? 
Im glad windows stays the same for so long and compatibel with very old pcs but support must be hell.


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## FireGS (Jun 24, 2021)

I'll be honest... I'm in. The productivity enhancements look amazing. I'm already using four windows up on two monitors _regularly_ and while its helpful to my workflow (outside music production), its not a terrific experience. Windows 11's window manager looks world-class. I'm not wrong until it releases and we all get our hands on it!


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## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)

Technostica said:


> The good news is that it should be easy to turn off a BIOS setting thus making it incompatible, meaning that MS can't try and force an upgrade on you.
> I am starting to like this new version as it means I can stay on 10 without MS hassling me.



I would maybe keep my mind open since they had so much flack for the upgrade issues im guessing they made a few changes? 
I did hear something about updates being a lot smaller and easy, but didnt understand beyond that simple statement in the video.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 24, 2021)

3DC said:


> I checked my fairly new system and apparently I have to buy a new licence for windows 11.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Isn't this because your hardware's not compatible with Win11 and nothing to do with paying for it. But maybe I'm wrong.

I got the same message, but my PC is really old. Built in 2012. Maybe it's my motherboards and/or the graphics, which are no longer supported.


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## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)

first look.


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## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)




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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

Cloud-based services running in the background definitely will have a "good" impact on real-time performance 

0 features for professional users. Plenty of bloatware for casual users - Win11 in a nutshell


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## RogiervG (Jun 25, 2021)

Hadrondrift said:


> Windows 11 seems to require an active UEFI, Secure Boot and TPM 2.0. That could hit some users by surprise, needs a (moderately) modern motherboard. I hope it will not be a pain in the butt to reconfigure my multi boot system. Still booting via legacy BIOS.
> 
> You'll potentially need new hardware if you PC is older than about 5 years.


tpm 2.0 is not required, as microsoft has confirmed just very recently.
secure boot is something that exists for years already, same for uefi.


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## Hadrondrift (Jun 25, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> tpm 2.0 is not required


Correct, there seems to be new/corrected information, apparently TPM 1.2 is sufficient and that should be no real problem for most PCs nowadays.

BUT... Everything below intel Core eighth generation (i.e. i3/5/7-7000 and lower) will not officially be supported, as it looks. (docs.microsoft.com).  That would be a bummer for me, I'd have to upgrade the hardware of four Desktop PCs and three Laptops in my family. Very expensive Win 11. But looks that this is not a criterion for exclusion. Probably MS just intends to give the end user the feeling that he is on a crappy unofficial platform, so that he buys a new Surface Model...

Well, let's see, things can still change and there are obviously still uncertainties in the news, as you can see in the case of TPM.


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## MauroPantin (Jun 25, 2021)

Hmmm. I've got a 2 year old PC with a modern CPU and Mobo. Checked with the minimum requirements list, it should work out, I even have the TPM. Downloaded the app to double-check and it says not compatible, the always-cohesive Microsoft experience. Guess I'm sticking with 10.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 25, 2021)

Hopefully, MS will be pressured into supporting WIN10 much longer than they say. Just think of all the perfectly good PCs that won't run WIN11. Probably millions of them.

Edit: This article does a pretty good job explaining the hardware requirements of WIN11.








Windows 11 is free, but your CPU might not be officially supported


TPM and CPU changes have led to some confusion.




www.theverge.com


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

pixel said:


> 0 features for professional users.


Did we watch the same presentation?


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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Did we watch the same presentation?


Probably  So what are these features for pros?


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 25, 2021)

So much for being to run windows on my 5,1


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## gsilbers (Jun 25, 2021)

gsilbers said:


>




There 2 relative small features that I could bet is the direction Microsoft wants to go with windows:

Getting back to smartphones via "small devices" like the surface duo.

The widgets and Teams and the way the new centered menu - similar to how smartphones have to open apps- is the main focus.
And no commission from the App Store. and also you ca load android apps and use the amazon store for apps.

With teams you'd end up having text/messenger, phone and video chat all in one. Add a cell plan and that's it.
the widgets is to use them as little apps people use all the time like weather calculator, info, news, search etc.

So yeah, maybe not too much for professionals and they are aiming at the more consumer business market now that people are not using so much desktop for work and stuck in an office.

I could totally see a marketing person or sales guys using a small surface duo to do business work, make calls, connect to a larger screen, type emails and so on with just that small device.

What I don't see is a more simplified way to code new apps. like if the guys from tinder or instagram etc (that levels of simplicity) wanted to make an app for windows 11 without much hassle like it is with iPhone apps. Maybe that's what the widgets are for. or its all going to be web based anyways .

Definitely see a departure from the overly complex, super tweaker, 10 thousand settings under hood that can be done etc that windows has become and why apple succeeded in making it more consumer friendly.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

pixel said:


> Probably  So what are these features for pros?


I guess we should define first what your idea of "features for pros" means, exactly?


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## Toecutter (Jun 25, 2021)

pixel said:


> 0 features for professional users. Plenty of bloatware for casual users - Win11 in a nutshell


Yep I didn't see any benefits for us audio professionals or did I miss something? Lots of eye candy tho... Win11 looking like Vista and Win8 XD Will probably stick to Win10 until Win12, I always jump a version anyway.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Yep I didn't see any benefits for us audio professionals or did I miss something?


I'm not sure I can imagine what those benefits would look like. A completely new audio stack? New ASIO? What are you guys looking for?


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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

FireGS said:


> I'm not sure I can imagine what those benefits would look like. A completely new audio stack? New ASIO? What are you guys looking for?


At least: less bloatware and unnecessary services working in the background which may (or not) affect real-time performance and DPC. W10 is already bloated with it.
Professional OS for audio doesn't need weather, selective news (this is horrible on so many levels), chat, emojis, MS teams, cloud-based services running in the background checking our every move to send info to the database and all those "bells and whistles" that MS is actually adding more and more to every W10 update and now to W11 from the start. 
For now W11 looks like OS for Karen where she can contact manager faster thanks to new integrated chat


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

pixel said:


> At least: less bloatware and unnecessary services working in the background which may (or not) affect real-time performance and DPC. W10 is already bloated with it.
> Professional OS for audio doesn't need weather, selective news (this is horrible on so many levels), chat, emojis, MS teams, cloud-based services running in the background checking our every move to send info to the database and all those "bells and whistles" that MS is actually adding more and more to every W10 update and now to W11 from the start.
> For now W11 looks like OS for Karen where she can contact manager faster thanks to new integrated chat


Nothing you wrote here is a new feature aimed at professional audio engineers. But actually, a lot of those things ARE new features for other types of professionals. Hell, half the time I spend away from music producing is done in emails, spreadsheets, browsers, and communication tools. In Windows.


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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> I always jump a version anyway.


I was following this rule since I tried to use Win ME after 98SE  So far it worked very well. I skipped Vista and 8. 10 is fine but it has too much unnecessary bloatware on start. 11 looks like just an update to 10, to be honest.


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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Nothing you wrote here is a new feature aimed at professional audio engineers. But actually, a lot of those things ARE new features for other types of professionals. Hell, half the time I spend away from music producing is done in emails, spreadsheets, browsers, and communication tools. In Windows.


I don't know man... I can do all these tasks right now efficiently in W10. I was able to do it in WinXP, 7 etc. I don't know which feature of W11 is upgrading work with e-mails or spreadsheets. Build-in Chat that is most likely limited only to MS accounts?
EDIT: I'm talking about using W11 with Desktop. Not tablet or phone.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

pixel said:


> I don't know man... I can do all these tasks right now efficiently in W10. I was able to do it in WinXP, 7 etc. I don't know which feature of W11 is upgrading work with e-mails or spreadsheets. Build-in Chat that is most likely limited only to MS accounts?




Skip to 11:00 (hahaha, 11)


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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Skip to 11:00 (hahaha, 11)



This feature is available already. Linus talked about it in his latest video about W11


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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

For me, the big failure is Taskbar limited to the bottom side of the window. Not nice for ultrawide screen users. They already struggle with Taskbar on sides in W10 (Very wide because of clock size). 
The icons in the middle of the taskbar are nice but why we can't have a Start menu on the left side and icons in the middle? It's either left side or middle for both. I hope that they will update it. 
Btw the new Menu Start looks bad if it's impossible to change the size of the icons and group them into different categories. Another step back.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

pixel said:


> This feature is available already. Linus talked about it in his latest video about W11





"similar to the way FancyZones powertoy works today, except its significantly more user friendly"

"they do bring something new to the table here though, Windows groups this way will be grouped together in the taskbar and be treated like a single item so you can switch to and from a window layout on the fly AND your multiple virtual desktops can now be customized with different wallpapers [and apps] making it easier to keep track of them"

"whats more, the finally fixed the issue where windows would rearrange themselves semi-randomly when monitors were disconnected and reconnected"

How is this bad?


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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

FireGS said:


> "similar to the way FancyZones powertoy works today, except its significantly more user friendly"
> 
> "they do bring something new to the table here though, Windows groups this way will be grouped together in the taskbar and be treated like a single item so you can switch to and from a window layout on the fly AND your multiple virtual desktops can now be customized with different wallpapers [and apps] making it easier to keep track of them"
> 
> ...



"significantly more user friendly *and significantly less configurable*".
I like how you skipped this part 

I agree. This feature is nice. But is it really that much for a (not really) new system? For me, it's a very bland update.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

pixel said:


> "significantly more user friendly *and significantly less configurable*".
> I like how you skipped this part


Youre right, I did. Doesnt invalidate my points, or Linus's.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

pixel said:


> I agree. This feature is nice. But is it really that much for a (not really) new system? For me, it's a very bland update.





FireGS said:


> I guess we should define first what your idea of "features for pros" means, exactly?


Can you define what a new feature would be specifically for pros? You've just said bloatwareblahblahblah, cloudbadblahblabbh, but none of this expands on what you're idea of a "pro feature" is.

Less of something isn't a new feature.


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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Can you define what a new feature would be specifically for pros? You've just said bloatwareblahblahblah, cloudbadblahblabbh, but none of this expands on what you're idea of a "pro feature" is.
> 
> Less of something isn't a new feature.


It's just you who doesn't want to comprehend that professional OS is an OS that has only the tools that are necessary for work. If you can see only 'bloatwareblahblahblah, cloudbadblahblabbh' then it's your problem.


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## Technostica (Jun 25, 2021)

FireGS said:


> "whats more, the finally fixed the issue where windows would rearrange themselves semi-randomly when monitors were disconnected and reconnected"
> 
> How is this bad?


It's a major bug fix that was supposed to come for W10.
If it's a W11 only fix then that's a kick in the teeth for all those with hardware not compatible with W11 which seems to be a lot.


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## Technostica (Jun 25, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Less of something isn't a new feature.


We could argue the semantics of that, but removing bloat and streamlining things for many people would be a desirable change.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

Technostica said:


> We could argue the semantics of that, but removing bloat and streamlining things for many people would be a desirable change.


Fair, but I'll also argue the semantics that a change is not a "new feature for pros". A "new feature" is something new that wasn't there before.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

Actually., going back, the original quote was; "0 features for professional users." I named many features for professional users. 

Then @Toecutter said "I didn't see any benefits for us audio professionals", to which I asked, "what would be a benefit for audio professionals?"

All I did was point out the new features for pros, and @pixel never actually answered the question; "what is a feature for professionals?" Less bloatware is not a [new] feature for professionals.


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## Technostica (Jun 25, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Fair, but I'll also argue the semantics that a change is not a "new feature for pros". A "new feature" is something new that wasn't there before.


A feature of many news cars is their weight saving compared to the previous model.
That improves performance and efficiency and those are the kind of features that pros find appealing.
Removing the crud on W10 that wastes my time is a new feature.
Making something 'lightweight' is a recognised feature in many industries, the same for software.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

Technostica said:


> A feature of many news cars is their weight saving compared to the previous model.
> That improves performance and efficiency and those are the kind of features that pros find appealing.
> Removing the crud on W10 that wastes my time is a new feature.
> Making something 'lightweight' is a recognised feature in many industries, the same for software.


Wouldn't the feature be "improved performance"? How that's done is irrelevant, IMO. If they add a ton of bloatware but also reduce how taxing said bloatware is on the system, its still a net performance improvement, right?


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## Technostica (Jun 25, 2021)

When one is reduced to arguing semantics I feel that it's time to let the argument die.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

Technostica said:


> When one is reduced to arguing semantics I feel that it's time to let the argument die.




I hear a whole lot of "faster, faster, faster". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Toecutter (Jun 25, 2021)

Technostica said:


> A feature of many news cars is their weight saving compared to the previous model.
> That improves performance and efficiency and those are the kind of features that pros find appealing.
> Removing the crud on W10 that wastes my time is a new feature.
> Making something 'lightweight' is a recognised feature in many industries, the same for software.


Exactly  whatever one may wanna call it, I still consider redesigning and/or removing things to improve performance and efficiency a "feature". Or at least give us real options to turn all the crap off without hacking the OS and risking breaking stuff.


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## FireGS (Jun 25, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Or at least give us real options to turn all the crap off without hacking the OS and risking breaking stuff.


Don't disagree with you on that one.


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## Technostica (Jun 25, 2021)

I recall the good old days of Windows NT and Windows 2000, when MS actually had a professional edition of Windows.
The merging of the toy town version with the pro version around the beginning of the century was unlikely to end well.
It's been downhill from there on some levels although there has been plenty of improvements along the way.
Windows 7 is the sole highlight for me post Windows 2000.


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## gsilbers (Jun 25, 2021)

Im a Mac guy and always found it easier to work with and since things just worked I have been able to "be professional" 

But I always saw these posts about more "pro" or more advance in windows but still can't figure out what "more professional " is. 

I thought its because its easier to program, or at least more widely use so there are more programmers but I think by now apples iOS and android can do that better? 
you know, for scientist who need special tools. 

But I could be wrong. if for example, Universal audio had to get data from an old piece of gear so they can create a software version, I do tend to imagine it using windows. but still they would use a custom app. which im guessing its because its easier to code? 
With google chrome /android that might no longer be true. not sure. 

still trying to figure out what "more pro" is in that world. I always get lost in windows to figure out issues related to hardware drivers and components and have gone into the bios and yet. I found none of that to be more "pro". to me its the. opposite. but again.. not a windows guy myself.


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## AlexRuger (Jun 25, 2021)

> But I always saw these posts about more "pro" or more advanced in windows but still can't figure out what "more professional " is.



Typically it's one of the following:

1) User-error and unfamiliarity with a given platform. People do this in both directions all the time. I kinda hate the term but I'm certainly a "power user" on both platforms and always cringe when someone says "{OS} can't do {thing}" when it...just...can. They're just not familiar and not bothering to look it up or trying to understand the underlying philosophy of a given OS's workflow patterns.

2) Keyboard-friendly use, which Windows has an edge over macOS for sure. Window management is better out of the box (though macOS can get up to speed quickly with something like bettersnaptool), and the "alt+{first letter of a thing in the menu bar}" is a fucking awesome component of native Windows programming. "Professionals" (nearly always meaning "self-described power users," not "professionals of a given...profession") like to use a keyboard more and a mouse less, myself included. The less I touch the mouse, the better. But macOS is still my favorite OS by a mile, so clearly it's not lacking here at all if you just learn.

3) A lack of bloat. macOS certainly wins in this department so I'm not sure what people mean when they say that Windows is more "professional" in this regard unless they're using the LTSC version. This is what people in this thread are talking about Windows 11 not bringing anything for professionals. A News and Weather app and shit like that doesn't matter -- we won't use it anyway. Give me a rewritten File Explorer (with tabs!), finish the goddamn UI and make it consistent for _once, _begin to approach something like Core Audio on some level, perhaps even just throw in the towel and give us a new Windows-sponsored Linux distro with a Win32 compatibility layer so as to preserve your precious backwards compatibility..._anything _other than a half-baked attempt to compete with the Apple ecosystem and yet another half-assed UI update. In short: have some fucking vision with Windows, Microsoft.

4) Business-focused apps. This POV isn't really all that relevant anymore but it sticks around, just like "Macs are for creatives," "Windows gets viruses all the time," etc. Stuff that stopped really being true over a decade ago or more.

5) Control over hardware. Some people prefer it, and you certainly get it with Windows. I'm of two minds on the Apple "computer as appliance" philosophy vs Windows "the OS is just a thing you put on your hardware of your choice." Huge pros and cons to both, though I definitely lean towards the former.

6) Some other shit that someone will no doubt call me out for and then use my omission as proof for that everything I just said is wrong. 

Being "easier to code" has nothing to do with it, especially if we're talking about cross-platform apps. Generally speaking, Unix-like OS's such as macOS or Linux have a slight edge over Windows for programming for all sorts of reasons I don't care to get into on a music forum. And before anyone says "but I code just fine on Windows!" -- I never said you didn't. And yes, I know WSL exists. Yes, Visual Studio is nice. Etc etc etc, we agree, I've heard it all before, good talk.

Scientists needing special tools are probably more likely to be on Linux.


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## pixel (Jun 25, 2021)

AlexRuger said:


> Give me a rewritten File Explorer (with tabs!)


YES! YES! Exactly this!


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## Pablocrespo (Jun 25, 2021)

Pro request: Midi overhaul, macOS is better in this regard, in w10 I need to use midiox to be able to use midi in two different apps...
MacOs audio and midi features are ahead of windows


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## gsilbers (Jun 25, 2021)

AlexRuger said:


> Typic





AlexRuger said:


> 1) User-error and unfamiliarity with a given platform. People do this in both directions all the time. I kinda hate the term but I'm certainly a "power user" on both platforms and always cringe when someone says "{OS} can't do {thing}" when it...just...can. They're just not familiar and not bothering to look it up or trying to understand the underlying philosophy of a given OS's workflow patterns.
> 
> 2) Keyboard-friendly use, which Windows has an edge over macOS for sure. Window management is better out of the box (though macOS can get up to speed quickly with something like bettersnaptool), and the "alt+{first letter of a thing in the menu bar}" is a fucking awesome component of native Windows programming. "Professionals" (nearly always meaning "self-described power users," not "professionals of a given...profession") like to use a keyboard more and a mouse less, myself included. The less I touch the mouse, the better. But macOS is still my favorite OS by a mile, so clearly it's not lacking here at all if you just learn.
> 
> ...



that might be it. the "professional vs power user".

I just keep seeing these posts in gaming and other forums where these guys do some extreme tweaking and weird enhancement to get some more FPS juice for their game. Or something along those lines. Adding code. crazy bios stuff. msdos etc.
So it seems like its not so much a means to an end but a journey that some like.

for coding Im more thinking about robots, doing music with printers, DYI stuff for research. but it could also be more related on the ability to hire millions of Indians for lower cost in programming hardware vs software integrations for custom software for very specific fields.
But with smartphones and tablets and easier languages maybe that's different now. not sure.

But yeah, the windows11 based on what the CEO mentioned in an interview, seems focus on pandemic type work from home or casual office sort of thing where the device can run office apps, communication apps, and taking the "device" with you.
Essentially not that much for power users. im guessing it will have the same apps for coding etc just no new power user tools.. from what it seems like.


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## AlexRuger (Jun 25, 2021)

> ...perhaps even just throw in the towel and give us a new Windows-sponsored Linux distro with a Win32 compatibility layer so as to preserve your precious backwards compatibility...



Just to expand on this because I've got a half hour to kill waiting for an OS update to finish running.

Even though, as I said above, I tend to lean towards the vertical integration that is Apple's approach, I still really like and value the DIY approach of "your own hardware + an OS of your choice," be it Linux or Windows or BSD or whatever. That's an important thing that should always stick around.

Here's my dream:

Microsoft purchases Wine and forks GoboLinux. If you aren't aware, GoboLinux is a distro that fixes my most-hated aspect of Linux: its file hierarchy. It's a messy, nonsense legacy that literally is the way it is due to the hard drive capacity limitations of decades ago. GoboLinux is clean and simple, as it should be.

In my dream world, Microsoft would totally embrace open source and release a new OS -- fuck it, call it "Doors" or something -- based on GoboLinux. They would then, as seamlessly as Apple has done so with Rosetta 2, integrate Wine into the OS, allowing absolute backwards compatibility all the way back up Windows 3.

If they did this, they would _eat _both the server _and _personal desktop world. No question. And due to the fact that Android and "Doors" would both share a Linux core, a _real _competitor to Apple's ecosystem -- a collaboration of Google and Microsoft -- would be truly possible. 

The NT kernel approach to OS architecture was just _one _option before the dust settled. Who knew what was going to work back then? There were plenty of other platforms and architectures and OS's, nearly all of which have been lost to history. Today, though? The Unix philosophy has persisted for a reason -- the same reason that Windows felt the need to literally _bolt on _Linux to Windows in the form of a fancy VM called WSL. 

In this world, any need that "Doors" couldn't handle would incentivize development of ReactOS, which is an open source clone of Windows, just as Linux and BSD were open source clones of Unix. I'd kind of rather have the efforts of unpaid open source contributors go to the thing that I just don't really care about, and have the resources of one of the wealthiest companies in the world go to what I _do _care about, sorry.

A popular, open source OS that any of us could download the source code to would be a _boon _for audio developers. The somewhat shared architecture of macOS and "Doors" would make cross-platform development _much _simpler, and truly being able to dig into the nuts and bolts of the OS would of course allow more of that macOS/Logic type performance boost. In theory.

Anyways, I'm not naive enough to think that this will ever happen, but _man _it would be great.


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## AlexRuger (Jun 25, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> I just keep seeing these posts in gaming and other forums where these guys do some extreme tweaking and weird enhancement to get some more FPS juice for their game. Or something along those lines. Adding code. crazy bios stuff. msdos etc.
> So it seems like its not so much a means to an end but a journey that some like.


I think you're somewhat confused...

I highly, highly doubt that many people are "adding code," especially with regards to gaming. Games tend to not be open source, so modding them on any level that requires actually working with code is rare. It does happen, but it's more the exception rather than the rule.

BIOS tweaks absolutely have real, measurable ends, and aren't just a journey, and also don't require any code. Tweaking how your hardware functions is hugely important, especially in gaming, and also isn't particularly difficult to learn. I suppose it looks scary to anyone who isn't familiar with it, but it's really no different than turning up the brightness of your lightbulbs with a dimmer fader.

MSDOS is just what Windows' forebearer was called.


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## d.healey (Jun 25, 2021)




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## pixel (Jun 26, 2021)

d.healey said:


>



Yep. It's not surprising as W10 is spying like a crazy on our every key pressed and mouse clicked (although now we can choose to limit this a bit).
"Fortunately" big companies know perfect magic spell: "it's for your safety", which immediately makes most of people obedient and happy that somebody is watching their every move. Anyway, who doesn't want to have their own paparazzi? 😁

For me the more worrying shit is stuff like curated "news and interests" which works exactly like media in my country (Poland) until 1989.


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 26, 2021)

This is what the PC health tool says for running Windows11 on MacPro 5,1 Bootcamp....which I'm not surprised to find....






its left to be seen whether it will be possible to use OpenCore and UEFI (instead of Bootcamp) to get it to work on the 5,1 Relic. So much for using my 5,1 forever as a windows machine...Microsoft finally broke down and pulled an "apple"

We shall see though...maybe OpenCore will create a new class of "hackenpc's"


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## PaulieDC (Jun 26, 2021)

Hadrondrift said:


> BUT... Everything below intel Core eighth generation (i.e. i3/5/7-7000 and lower) will not officially be supported, as it looks. (docs.microsoft.com).


Whoa, you're right! My i9-7940X isn't on there!

Marty, do you know what this means?? This dang thing doesn't work!






*WOO HOO! I can keep to what I'm doing and not have to upgrade! Oh man, what a huge relief. My system screams right along... if it ain't broke...*


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## kb123 (Jun 26, 2021)

if your computer fails the windows 11 health check, simply enable PTT in the bios and that will do the trick for most "modern" computers


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## tony10000 (Jun 26, 2021)

So I guess TPM 2.0 is a true minimum requirement:

Update, 2:26PM ET: Added that Microsoft updated its PC Health Check app, shortly after we published this story, to be more specific about why your computer isn’t meeting Windows 11 system requirements.

Update, 3:53PM ET: Added that Microsoft has changed its compatibility page to mention TPM 2.0 as a requirement instead of TPM 1.2, and that specific CPUs may be a requirement. We’re getting to the bottom of this now.

Correction, 8:06PM ET: This story originally stated Windows 11 would likely still install on PCs with access to TPM 1.2 and older CPUs, because that’s what we read in Microsoft’s documentation. Microsoft has now corrected those documents to specify TPM 2.0 is a minimum requirement for Windows 11.









Why Windows 11 is forcing everyone to use TPM chips


You probably already have one, but it may not be enabled.




www.theverge.com





To install or upgrade to Windows 11, devices must meet the following minimum hardware requirements:

Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with two or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor or system on a chip (SoC).
RAM: 4 gigabytes (GB) or greater.
Storage: 64 GB* or greater available storage is required to install Windows 11.
Additional storage space might be required to download updates and enable specific features.
Graphics card: Compatible with DirectX 12 or later, with a WDDM 2.0 driver.
System firmware: UEFI, Secure Boot capable.
TPM: Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0.
Display: High definition (720p) display, 9" or greater monitor, 8 bits per color channel.
Internet connection: Internet connectivity is necessary to perform updates, and to download and use some features.
Windows 11 Home edition requires an Internet connection and a Microsoft Account to complete device setup on first use.
* There might be additional requirements over time for updates, and to enable specific features within the operating system. For more information, see Keeping Windows 11 up-to-date.









Windows 11 requirements - What's new in Windows


Hardware requirements to deploy Windows 11



docs.microsoft.com


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## kb123 (Jun 26, 2021)

i don't have tpm 2 and enabling PTT gave me a pass on the Windows 11 health check


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## tony10000 (Jun 26, 2021)

Seems like the situation is as clear as mud! LOL!

From Tom's Hardware:

"Indeed, I don't have a physical TPM module in my system. But it ends up, there's a workaround.

"I fiddled around in the UEFI, where I found a setting to enable Firmware TPM, or fTPM. (In Intel parlance, it will be called PTT, or Platform Trust Technology). On my Asus X370 Prime Pro motherboard, it was under Advanced > AMD fTPM configuration, where I switched from Discrete TPM to enable a Firmware TPM.

"Then, I rebooted and returned to PC Health Checker and it said I could install Windows 11 without issue. Of course, to do that, I'll have to sign up for upcoming Windows Insider Builds or wait until the release this holiday." 









Windows 11's TPM Requirement Surprised PC Builders, but You Can Enable It in BIOS


Microsoft could have been more clear on Windows 11 upgrades.




www.tomshardware.com


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## tony10000 (Jun 26, 2021)

More clarification:


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## pixel (Jun 26, 2021)

tony10000 said:


> Seems like the situation is as clear as mud! LOL!
> 
> From Tom's Hardware:
> 
> ...


This is what I did. After enabling fTPM, PC Health Checker is happy to install W11. For the system, it looks like TPM is active and it's all that matters. To check if TPM is active: Win+R 'tpm.msc'


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## RogiervG (Jun 26, 2021)

i will check windows 11 out when it is usable on more cpu's, tpm is optional, and most bugs are ironed out. (that will most likely be 1 or 2 years from now)


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## PaulieDC (Jun 26, 2021)

This was probably already determined, but we need TPM 2.0, SecureBoot turned on and a UEFI BIOS. not Legacy. And the compatible CPU list shows 8th gen and later. My 7th Gen CPU is probably why my tower won't pass the test.

However, my Acer Predator laptop passes the test. I have Cubase 11 AI on there, plus Dorico SE, Studio One Pro v5.2, Notion 6 and a few ensemble libraries (BOI, BOI2, Albion One, AROOF). I also have the full Adobe suite from Photoshop to Premiere installed. SO, as soon as the Windows Insider site releases the version we can try in advance, I'm going to run the full upgrade and see what happens. If it chokes, no biggie, I'll restore my Win 10 image.

No idea when i can get my hands on 11, could be there now for all I know, but at least I can be a guinea pig and see how it flies. Er... the upgrade attempt, not the guinea pig.


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## RogiervG (Jun 26, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> ...but at least I can be a guinea pig and see how it flies. Er... the upgrade attempt, not the guinea pig.


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## wcreed51 (Jun 27, 2021)

There's a better utility to test your system that tells you where the problems are:









GitHub - rcmaehl/WhyNotWin11: Detection Script to help identify why your PC is not Windows 11 Release Ready. Now Supporting Update Checks!


Detection Script to help identify why your PC is not Windows 11 Release Ready. Now Supporting Update Checks! - GitHub - rcmaehl/WhyNotWin11: Detection Script to help identify why your PC is not Win...




github.com





Needless to say, my 9 year old home built system isn't going to cut it


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