# Think Space - Orchestral Mixing Class?



## milesito (Mar 18, 2016)

Hi guys,

I'm debating whether to take the Think Space Orchestral Mixing Class w/ Jake Jackson. Has anyone taken this? If so, do you get to download the videos permanently and what course material do you have? Was it effective and could you ask questions to Jake Jackson himself? How long did it take to do the course?

Just curious if you have any thoughts...

Thanks in advance...


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## sourcefor (Mar 18, 2016)

I took it and it is good, but nothing I did not already know as I've been in the game awhile, but it's always good to see other peoples methods against your own! I also thought that there was more going on in Jake's head than he was letting on and hoped for more in depth explanations of things, But Guy does give you an in depth rundown of his template and that was interesting..overall I think it's good but a bit pricey in my opinion and You do get to download the content and watch it over and over..which I always do ...good luck with your purchase!


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## jneebz (Mar 18, 2016)

Agreed...feel like it was too pricey for what you get, and I was often asking "wait, explain that!" I took a couple ThinkSpace courses and felt the exact same way.


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## OleJoergensen (Mar 19, 2016)

Yesterday I looked at the different courses at ThinkSpace. I need some inspiration and have until now, not taken any courses except from Macprovideo, which I find excellent. I also find those courses at Thinkspace pricy but as I have not tried them, I thought it was just me.
Anyone who can share any experience?


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## Smikes77 (Mar 19, 2016)

I personally thought the Composer Blueprints was amazing.


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## OleJoergensen (Mar 19, 2016)

Smikes77 said:


> I personally thought the Composer Blueprints was amazing.


Thank you for inspiration. I will look into that.


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## stixman (Mar 19, 2016)

I also found the Blueprint course although good to be over priced as most of it i knew already but i do not regret taking it so ymmv.


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## jononotbono (Mar 19, 2016)

I absolutely love the Orchestral Mixing Course. You get to look at mixing a cue created with just VIs and then a cue recorded with real Orchestra. You get all the stems so you can practise and also get other practise cues that aren't in the videos (both VI and Orchestral) so you can practise what you have learn't off your own back and not have you hand held. I have watched them quite a few times and literally about to start giving them a go. There's a lot of information in them and have had to watch them many times to understand a lot (what can I say, I am a beginner) but other people may know a lot or all this stuff anyway. I'm guessing if anyone is enquiring about it then they probably don't. You get to keep all the Materials as well which is great! Can't wait to start applying the knowledge into my own stuff and love how Jake Jackson shows how he mixes stuff with Samples (and both together as well).


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## synthpunk (Mar 19, 2016)

I learned a hell of allot even though I been mixing since I was 17 years old. It also helped that they will split up the payment into 3 payments which helped my g/f get this for me 2 Xmas ago.

Also, you can pick up quite a bit from these freebies that Jake has done...


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## OleJoergensen (Mar 19, 2016)

Great to hear . Will save some money and try it out.
Anyone tried the education " MFA Professional Composition and Orchestration"?
Its not my intension to hijack this thread. Its just the same subject Im interested in.


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## jononotbono (Mar 19, 2016)

I'm currently studying the MA in Professional Media Composition (MA: PMC). Started in January so it's all very new to me but am loving it. I'm completely in the deep end (is there any other place to swim?) and every day learning so much. Having deadlines that I have to meet and tackling Music that I have never before attempted to write is just gold to me. They all earn a living in this business and are working professionals. I love it and believe me, after I studied a BA a long time ago, I swore I would never study Music again (gotta pick these courses carefully and you have to have tutors that are current working professionals rather than by people that are either retired, inexperienced and just have pieces of Paper to their names - and a few Pub Cover Gigs haha - or just completely out of touch of the real World) but really happy with things and how it's going. So much to learn and I love it.

Like I said, I want to do the MFA and learn Orchestration but one thing at a time. It's hard enough wielding CC data at the minute!


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## OleJoergensen (Mar 19, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> I'm currently studying the MA in Professional Media Composition (MA: PMC). Started in January so it's all very new to me but am loving it. I'm completely in the deep end (is there any other place to swim?) and every day learning so much. Having deadlines that I have to meet and tackling Music that I have never before attempted to write is just gold to me. They all earn a living in this business and are working professionals. I love it and believe me, after I studied a BA a long time ago, I swore I would never study Music again (gotta pick these courses carefully and you have to have tutors that are current working professionals rather than by people that are either retired, inexperienced and just have pieces of Paper to their names - and a few Pub Cover Gigs haha - or just completely out of touch of the real World) but really happy with things and how it's going. So much to learn and I love it.
> 
> Like I said, I want to do the MFA and learn Orchestration but one thing at a time. It's hard enough wielding CC data at the minute!


It sounds wonderful! Do you study full time or do you have work too?


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## jononotbono (Mar 19, 2016)

I chose to do it part time so I am doing it over two years. I initially chose to do it over 1 year but I decided that was a foolish thing to do. I am doing some paid work Musically but I have to supplement it with another part time job at the minute (and have a very understanding partner haha). I just don't think I would absorb everything being taught in a single year. The deadlines obviously come in thick and fast and depending on how good you are and how much you already know, it can be hugely overwhelming (it is for me haha). Part Time already feels full time to me. And if I get onto the MFA, then it's likely I will be studying a total of 4 years. Certainly 3. Thinkspace are amazingly flexible because not only do they give you an option to pay for it interest free and over how ever many years your want (monthly installments basically) but if non-Musical life (sadly it does exist) gets in the way or in fact you suddenly get paid Music work and you're busy being a real working Musician, they can extend the course lengths etc to cater for all of that. I'm not praising it because I am studying there and feel the need to protect it. If it was dog shit, I wouldn't do it and just say. I know education isn't for everyone and I have hated studying in the past but I'm certainly glad I started studying again. It's certainly the right course for me and the right time in my life! They are about to introduce a Sound Design Course (I think around September) and I am highly looking forward to that!


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## OleJoergensen (Mar 19, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> I chose to do it part time so I am doing it over two years. I initially chose to do it over 1 year but I decided that was a foolish thing to do. I am doing some paid work Musically but I have to supplement it with another part time job at the minute (and have a very understanding partner haha). I just don't think I would absorb everything being taught in a single year. The deadlines obviously come in thick and fast and depending on how good you are and how much you already know, it can be hugely overwhelming (it is for me haha). Part Time already feels full time to me. And if I get onto the MFA, then it's likely I will be studying a total of 4 years. Certainly 3. Thinkspace are amazingly flexible because not only do they give you an option to pay for it interest free and over how ever many years your want (monthly installments basically) but if non-Musical life (sadly it does exist) gets in the way or in fact you suddenly get paid Music work and you're busy being a real working Musician, they can extend the course lengths etc to cater for all of that. I'm not praising it because I am studying there and feel the need to protect it. If it was dog shit, I wouldn't do it and just say. I know education isn't for everyone and I have hated studying in the past but I'm certainly glad I started studying again. It's certainly the right course for me and the right time in my life! They are about to introduce a Sound Design Course (I think around September) and I am highly looking forward to that!


Thank you for taking the time to explain, very inspiring! I wish you good luck with the study


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## jononotbono (Mar 19, 2016)

No problem at all! Any questions and I'll try to answer them as best as I can. I only started in Jan so I have a long way to go! I am also learning an awful lot from being a member of VI Control (some people on here know so much it's inspiring) as well as constantly learning off my own back - which is what everybody should be doing all day and all night (even when they pretend to sleep), every day and night!


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## sourcefor (Mar 19, 2016)

Don't get me wrong I love the teaching style at think space and I think the courses are great and I like that they are working professionals, as am I, I was just hoping to learn a bit more for the money but it's still very informative for someone who is not that experienced. I always like to learn and refresh my memory and I am glad we live in these times of massive available information!


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## OleJoergensen (Mar 20, 2016)

I bought the Think Space Orchestral Mixing Class w/ Jake Jackson today and until now I like it a lot. I like the setup with a "Master" pdf file and the videos. The engineer both work and speak quite fast so for me its good I can read besides and also that Guy Michelmore explains in the videos. He is quite talented in explaining and also has a clear and dynamic English language, maybe because of 20 years of experience .
The engineer uses 2 convolution Reverbs on aux channels, one long and one a little short. The instruments are send, in a certain balance, to both reverbs. What is the point of this? I mean, the both are hall reverbs, there are non reverbs that places specific instrument in "the right" place in the room. Is it something like front and rear?


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## SeattleComposer (Mar 20, 2016)

I paid for the Think Space version. And then Spitfire did a "lite" version for free, essentially. Which is great. 
I cannot understand everything that Jake is saying in either of them. Also, I use Logic, which throws me off because I cannot intuitively understand what he is doing by watching the screens. The big takeaways from this training are, as I understand them: 1. use your ears, 2. use two versions of Altiverb, 3. use a hardware fader, not a mouse, and 4. consider using the plug-in applications that Jake uses. Watching both courses convinced me that I should hire a pro whenever I can because I suck at mixing. And also, that I should continue to think about orchestration and develop those skills - i.e., balancing. A well-orchestrated piece sounds good even before it is mixed. To that end, I continue to read scores, something that both Mike Verta and Thomas Goss encourage.


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## CDNmusic (Mar 20, 2016)

I felt like I didn't learn as much as I wanted after Jake's Orchestral Mixing course. I'm not an expert but I feel most of what was discussed is already available on YouTube, some even on the posted videos here.

I really thought it was about all the different reverb techniques you hear people talking about, plus a bunch of more hands on practical examples of mixing in the DAW. I don't know, I think I set myself to expect something different and since I have seen a LOT of videos on the topic online I thought that a paid course would fill the gaps....it didn't do that for me. Maybe if they had a course where Guy is composing and using widely popular reverbs and FX plugins there would be a more practical approach for "some" of us, I really don't know exactly, is like there is something that left me with more questions than answers with this course.

The blueprint courses are awesome on the other hand, highly recommended. If I have time in the future I'm seriously considering music for the media, the guys at ThinkSpace are a great bunch, very helpful in all my correspondence with them.


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## jononotbono (Mar 21, 2016)

CDNmusic said:


> Maybe if they had a course where Guy is composing



Well, this is exactly what you get with the MA courses. The mixing course is for Mixing and Guy isn't a mixer. Although "Light the Beacons" is one of Guy's Cues from the film Jackboots on Whitehall which is amazing hearing it go from Mock Up with Samples to real Orchestra (just the Music. You don't watch him write it).

There's a lot of information out there on the internet. Although I'm doubting there are stems of a full orchestral session available to anybody for free (I apologise if I wrong but I haven't found any). For those not understanding things that Jake says, you can ask Thinkspace and talk to the tutors about any problems you have. Either via email or on the Thinkspace forum.


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## OleJoergensen (Mar 21, 2016)

There's a lot of information out there on the internet. Although I'm doubting there are stems of a full orchestral session available to anybody for free (I apologise if I wrong but I haven't found any)[/QUOTE said:


> I agree with that. Thats maybe the best part of this course.


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## jononotbono (Mar 21, 2016)

And not forgetting having Jake Jackson's final mixes to see how yours compare!


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## milesito (Mar 21, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Well, this is exactly what you get with the MA courses. The mixing course is for Mixing and Guy isn't a mixer. Although "Light the Beacons" is one of Guy's Cues from the film Jackboots on Whitehall which is amazing hearing it go from Mock Up with Samples to real Orchestra (just the Music. You don't watch him write it).
> 
> There's a lot of information out there on the internet. Although I'm doubting there are stems of a full orchestral session available to anybody for free (I apologise if I wrong but I haven't found any). For those not understanding things that Jake says, you can ask Thinkspace and talk to the tutors about any problems you have. Either via email or on the Thinkspace forum.




Yea I posted questions last week on their website but have never heard anything back...


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## jononotbono (Mar 21, 2016)

They have just come back from LA from recording. Perhaps try them again? I'm also not a spokesperson for Thinkspace haha so yeah, I would just try again if it was me. Have no idea why they haven't responded...


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## synthpunk (Mar 21, 2016)

I asked once if they would consider a vi-c group buy or group discount and never heard back either. They need to work on correspondence.


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## TimJohnson (Mar 21, 2016)

Hello everyone, Tim from ThinkSpace here. Really interesting thread and I want everyone to know that we do appreciate feedback (although indirect) and are constantly making tweaks and changes to the courses, both in their delivery and in their content to account for this.

I apologise to those that did not get a response from us. We pride ourselves on good customer service and responding to as many people as possible, as fast as possible. That said, we receive hundreds of emails daily and every now and then some fall through the cracks, which is regrettable. Please feel free to email me personally at [email protected] and I will be happy to answer your questions as promptly as I am able.

A VI-C group discount isn't something that we have considered in the past and I'm not sure how that would work in practice given the way we deliver the courses. I'm happy to entertain the idea though - again, just email me!


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## passsacaglia (Mar 26, 2016)

Stealing the thread, anyone have done the Music for the media course?
Read about the CBT course which looks awesome, needed for a start?
Will MFTM be enough working in the industry later? I mean, will you/have you learned enough to get comfortable writing any type of track? 
I would love making music for tv commercials, documentaries and tv-series/shows. 
And ofc music for movies since piano is my thing. 

So, anyone finished CBT or MFTM and can give feedback? Would be much appreciated!


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## Smikes77 (Mar 26, 2016)

I have the CBT and a MFTM student.

The CBT is excellent. Guy (Michelmore) is excellent at explaining how the styles work, and writes some music while you watch and he explains what he`s doing as he`s doing it. And you get a PDF with some great examples of film music that`s already out there, and some sample library suggestions. I thoroughly recommend it and hope they do another to be honest. The CBT won`t help much for writing for media really. Some parts will, but generally it won`t - it`s there to help with the main "moods" or genres of film. There are some things in there that cross over though, like how to write emotional music (which could be used in all manner of things).

The MFTM is definitely a course whereby you will get out as much as you put into it. It WILL stretch you musically, I don`t care who you are, no-one is trained is EVERY style. I like to think that I am a fairly well rounded musician and I found it challenging. I am classically trained on piano to a high standard, I play rock and jazz on guitar (part of my living), and I have played jazz on Sax to a high standard too, so I have some main areas covered. BUT I'VE NEVER WRITTEN HOUSE MUSIC!!! I also found it difficult to keep to writing "beds" rather than melodic based pieces of music.

The course itself can`t cover every style out there either, but it tries! By the 3rd Unit, I had written in these styles...

Italian, French, English, Children`s tv themes, house, trance and rock...by only the 3rd unit!

I think it`s after the 3rd unit you get to score to picture. I would say that once you`ve finished the course it will definitely have given you a good grounding on what to expect and what your potential clients expect of you, so you don`t look inexperienced/naive. The course advises you on technical aspects you wouldn`t have though of, away from the music writing too. 

You also get access to their forums which is also useful. If you get stuck on something, then Bradley and Tim are great at getting back to you with solutions and suggestions, plus they are really nice people (with a dry sense of humour too). They don`t judge or patronise either. I don`t know what the current fee for the course is but when I took it, it was £500 I think. And I would say it was worth it.


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