# The best keyboard controller 61 notes



## Trancer (May 8, 2021)

Hello,

For the moment I have an Arturia essential 61 notes and I am not very happy with it.

Spacing of the keys not regular and which begins to rub when playing on the keyboard.

Could you give me your opinion on a 61 notes master keyboard with excellent keyboard quality feel and design quality.

Being perfectly integrated for Live 11.

I thank you in advance.


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## easyrider (May 8, 2021)

S61 Mk2....different league to the Arturia essentials 61....I sold mine and got the s61.


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## Trancer (May 8, 2021)

Thanks for your feedback.

The NI S61 mk2 is, according to no users, a really excellent keyboard and a seemingly exceptional keyboard feel.

Regarding the NI, I hesitate for two reasons.

The first, will there not be a version 3 very soon?

In addition, a slight off topic, if like the Maschine Mikro mk3, not compatible with Live 11 and still no update to make Maschine compatible.

So a little suspicious of NI.

the second reason

I use Massive and I plan to take the X version. I have Pigments 3 and soon Dune 3 (Nks) Serum and Sylenth 1 (not Nks).

Apart from that but other Vst not Nks, so is it relevant to take an S61 Mk2 in this case?


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## dcoscina (May 8, 2021)

The Keylab 61mk2 has an excellent synth action and infinitely superior to the Keylab essential (they are in two different universes) and even the S61. I work at a music store in keyboards and have tried both extensively with orchestral VIs


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## DimensionsTomorrow (May 8, 2021)

How is the Novation SLs mkiii? That seemed to have gotten a lot of attention when it came out.


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## Trancer (May 8, 2021)

Thank you for your feedback.

If I may, since you work in a music store.

You tell me about the Arturia Keylab Mk2, compared to the Akai Mpk 61 for example, which one would you choose?

If you had to advise me another master keyboard than the Keylab, which brand and model would you choose?


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## Trancer (May 8, 2021)

Thank you for your reply.

I like Novation, I also watched,

But it would be more oriented to drive / control hardware equipment and less optimized for software.

I have no hardware, only software, so looking for a more specifically adapted master keyboard optimized for vst and integration into Live 11.

The Keylab would be rather hybrid on the other hand.


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## dcoscina (May 8, 2021)

Trancer said:


> Thank you for your feedback.
> 
> If I may, since you work in a music store.
> 
> ...


The MPK series have very stiff action. Right springs with no bounce to them like the Keylab 61 mk2. The Keylab has the same synth action as Arturia’s very expensive Matrixbrute. Aside from the Korg Kronos 61, the Keylab action is my favourite of any semi weighted synth action board out there. I want to like the NI S series but frankly their synth weighted boards are rubbish. They break often and have issues. And they feel cheap. They are housed in a plastic case. The Keylab 61 and 49mk2 are housed in a metal chassis with wood end caps. Class all the way. 

I haven’t had a chance to play the new novations yet. Previous ones kinda felt cheap and crappy to me however. But I cannot verify with their latest iteration.


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## Trancer (May 8, 2021)

Thank you very much for your reply.

So your preference is the Keylab 😊

The Akai has the same spring system as the well understood Keylab.

The quality of the keyboard and the feeling of touch are not the same?

The Keylab is superior?

Concerning the Keylab, I suppose given the rather high price, that there is not the same concern of alignment of the white notes, as I had on the essential 61?

That the space between each note is the same on Keylab 61


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## dcoscina (May 8, 2021)

Trancer said:


> Thank you very much for your reply.
> 
> So your preference is the Keylab 😊
> 
> ...


The essential is no where near as good. It shouldn’t even share the name frankly. The keybed on the Akai is very stiff. Not remotely close to the Arturia Keylab 61mk2. As I mentioned the only comparable semi weighted synth action is the Kronos 61 which is $3500. 
I had a chance to work with the Keylab 49mk2 for a month and used it when composing orchestral works. I loved it.
Pity I had to return it to the store since I’d gotten it under our employee loner program. I figure I will get a 49 sometime in the future though. I also like how shallow the keybed is. Makes it very comfy sitting on my desk.


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## dcoscina (May 8, 2021)

One final thing- my only dislike of the Keylab mk2 series is that the faders are on the right side while the drum pads are on the left. Arturia was soliciting suggestions for future designs and I recommended they switch those two for better ergonomics since most composers need the faders to be on the left... that’s my only gripe. So I’m waiting to see if future generations will adopt that layout- hence why I’m waiting.


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## Trancer (May 8, 2021)

Thank you for your answer.

Don't you think an Mk3 version of Keylab is near?

In addition, the black version of the Keylab is splendid 😊


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## darkogav (May 9, 2021)

I was very impressed with the Keylab MK2 when I tried it.

_"more oriented to drive / control hardware equipment and less optimized for software."_

But perhaps a Novtion is better as Keylabs are really optimized for AnalogLab. I am quite happy with my LaunchKey. It works with all my hardware and software. I believe the SL2 is the next step up.


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## Trancer (May 9, 2021)

Thank you very much for your answer.

Each keyboard is specific.

The NI S61 mk2 rather oriented NI products and with third-party Nks.

The Keylab Mk2 rather produced Arturia.

Even though both can fly daws and be configured in a more general way, they still remain quite focused anyway.

It all depends on the universe you choose Arturia V Collection 8 or NI Komplet.

Now if neither of these two universes is chosen, which 61 note master keyboard should you choose?

Is there a generic master keyboard that can be integrated perfectly for example into Live 11 and control vsts or else The NI S61 mk2 or the Keylab 61 Mk2 can, depending on the model, lend itself to it without worry?


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## BradHoyt (May 9, 2021)

Im surprised that no one has mentioned the M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61. Anyone have thoughts on that?


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## dcoscina (May 9, 2021)

BradHoyt said:


> Im surprised that no one has mentioned the M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61. Anyone have thoughts on that?


That uses the same keybed as the Keystation 61Mk3. They are nice but not in the same league as the KL61mk2 or S61Mk2. 

If one needs the controls on the other two boards, that would inform their decision. I rarely if ever use any controller things like the knobs or transport functions. I'm faster with key commands. But I could see it benefiting other people's work flows so it comes down to which keyboard is more applicable based on the software the user has...

From a purely key bed feel and build quality, I don't think there's much out there that competes with the Arturia Keylab... it's one if not the only controller in this price point that uses an aluminum chasis not plastic. It's semi weighted keybed is directly from their $3000 Matrixbrute..


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## darkogav (May 9, 2021)

Trancer said:


> Thank you very much for your answer.
> 
> Each keyboard is specific.
> 
> ...


I suspect the business model behind some of those keyboards is to sell the software. 

You could look at Roland MIDI controllers. 

https://www.roland.com/ca/products/a-800pro/
But I think they will do the same thing as a controller from a company that integrates it with their software. The only difference is you won't get the close integration anymore.


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## Trancer (May 9, 2021)

Thank you for your answers.

Indeed, the Keylab aluminum frame and it indeed looks very robust and as the keyboard is identical to the flagship of Arturia that is indeed reassuring.

Here it is in a way good to have a dedicated Arturia or NI controller, but on the other hand, for a third party daw or vst other than the brand it is not at all the same.

Hence my question of a generic master controller keyboard.


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## cuttime (May 9, 2021)

Trancer said:


> Here it is in a way good to have a dedicated Arturia or NI controller, but on the other hand, for a third party daw or vst other than the brand it is not at all the same.
> 
> Hence my question of a generic master controller keyboard.


I use the Keylab 88 MKII. The Keylab maintains standard Mackie and HUI protocols. YMMV. I only have Ableton Lite, and in my experience the support is very robust. My main DAW is MOTU DP, and there is no dedicated profile, but using the Mackie protocols I can get about 95% there.


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## Elrik Settee (May 9, 2021)

Keylab! Great keybed and integrates with Pigments.


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## Trancer (May 9, 2021)

Thank you very much for your feedback.

I just checked the Arturia site again and watched some videos and it is true that the Keylab Mk2 seems to be a very good choice.

I'm just asking myself a question, this keyboard is already a few years old.

Isn't it going to release a Mk3 version soon?

Not really want to buy a keyboard for more than 500 euros to have it replaced in six months.


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## creativeforge (May 9, 2021)

Trancer said:


> Hello,
> 
> For the moment I have an Arturia essential 61 notes and I am not very happy with it.
> 
> ...


Having spent enough time in a music store to try all of the available brands there for a 49 keys (I also tried some 25 keys and 61), as a piano player I went with the M-Audio Oxygen49. All the other keyboards felt like they were fighting back against my fingers. The action was really not allowing me to feel the music I was playing.

If you do a lot of drumming on the keys, it may be useful, not sure. But to play pads and piano libraries, winds, etc, the O49 allows me some great nuances in my playing. And the keys are just the perfect size.

As far as Ableton Live, the Oxygen49 came bundled with a copy of Live Lite. So it most certainly is compatible.


Hope this helps,

Andre


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## Elrik Settee (May 9, 2021)

"
Isn't it going to release a Mk3 version soon?
Not really want to buy a keyboard for more than 500 euros to have it replaced in six months."

Ok, lets look at that...

Arturia tend to release new models very slowly.
Covid has massively impacted sales, everybody is offering good deals on software, to trty to get some revenue. 
Therefore I can't believe that any manufcurer is going to release what will be a minotr tweak of a well-regarded device, anytime soon. A keylab mini is more likely.
I reckon 3 years before any manuffacturer will even think about new models. Sales would have to recover after Covid, and that won't be rapid.

So all in all, don't worry. You'll be buying a longlasting quality chassis, and a superb keybed, all the rest is icing on the cake anyway...


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## Trancer (May 9, 2021)

Thank you very much for your feedback and your analysis on a new Mk3.

I'm going to take a look at the Oxygen, thanks, I already had a master keyboard from home and they had a 61 note Axiom pro and was quite happy with it.

But the Keylab Mk2 keeps my attention more and more


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## jaketanner (May 10, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> The Keylab 61mk2 has an excellent synth action and infinitely superior to the Keylab essential (they are in two different universes) and even the S61. I work at a music store in keyboards and have tried both extensively with orchestral VIs


This thread came at a perfect time. I was just about to pull the trigger on the Keylab MKII 49...so it's really that much better? Than say the NI S49? because the price for the NI is ridiculous...wasn't even a consideration TBH...but I do like the Arturia. Any other 49 key controller you can recommend before I buy the Arturia? THanks.


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## Leo Brennauer (May 10, 2021)

I always liked the keybed of the S61 the most. I worked at a music store for many years and had lots of pianos bellow my fingers, the s61 was always my favorite (none-hammer weighted). The S61 comes with lots of functions I don’t need and use which is a little sad. But I even was in contact with Fatar, to find out if there is any other keyboard having the same keybed out there. For the moment (1 year ago)? Nope. 

But hey, that’s just taste - I also sold many other keybeds that where just fine for the people. In the end it’s an instrument and a very unique and subjective desicion to make. We all have different backgrounds. Some are newbies to keybeds, some are experienced with heavy GP keybed stuff, others played the usual upright at home. So you should really get them under your fingers, if you’re considering being it your main instrument.


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## jaketanner (May 10, 2021)

I ordered the Arturia MKII 49.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (May 10, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I ordered the Arturia MKII 49.


Nice! I’m ready to move up from my old Keystep. Space wise a 49 is best, even though I find myself eyeing the bigger one.

It would be nice having those sliders for expression and those pads for key switches.


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## jaketanner (May 10, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Nice! I’m ready to move up from my old Keystep. Space wise a 49 is best, even though I find myself eyeing the bigger one.
> 
> It would be nice having those sliders for expression and those pads for key switches.


I’m waiting for my Monogram MIDI controllers so I’m gonna use the sliders to adjust DAW levels actually.


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## Danilebob (May 11, 2021)

I have the Keylab Essentials 88 by Arturia, and the response is decent. Definitely a keyboard that will keep me satisfied for a while since a better response with less or more on board faders seems to cost nearly twice as much (from $350 to $700-1000). I don't seem to have any layout problems as everything seems very even and nice looking. I do lose some MIDI data every now and then so I'm thinking of getting the power adapter and sending the MIDI through my pre-amp to see if that works more fluidly. Even if it doesn't, I'd rather have it all going through the same box instead of taking up another USB slot.


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## jaketanner (May 11, 2021)

Danilebob said:


> I have the Keylab Essentials 88 by Arturia, and the response is decent. Definitely a keyboard that will keep me satisfied for a while since a better response with less or more on board faders seems to cost nearly twice as much (from $350 to $700-1000). I don't seem to have any layout problems as everything seems very even and nice looking. I do lose some MIDI data every now and then so I'm thinking of getting the power adapter and sending the MIDI through my pre-amp to see if that works more fluidly. Even if it doesn't, I'd rather have it all going through the same box instead of taking up another USB slot.


So the 88 Essential has semi-weighted keys rather than the synth style keys of the other Essential models? Interesting...had the Essential 49 had semi-weighted keys, I may have gone for that ...but I got the MKII 49...can't wait, comes Thursday


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## Danilebob (May 11, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> So the 88 Essential has semi-weighted keys rather than the synth style keys of the other Essential models? Interesting...had the Essential 49 had semi-weighted keys, I may have gone for that ...but I got the MKII 49...can't wait, comes Thursday


I'm not too familiar with what a synth response should feel like, but the 88 definitely feels like a keyboard. I would love a fully weighted or hammer action keyboard (because real pianos just feel awesome). I hope the MKII feels awesome :D the extra pads and all that are fun to mess with. I guess another note is aftertouch, the Essentials don't have aftertouch and your MKII will


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## jaketanner (May 11, 2021)

Danilebob said:


> I'm not too familiar with what a synth response should feel like, but the 88 definitely feels like a keyboard. I would love a fully weighted or hammer action keyboard (because real pianos just feel awesome). I hope the MKII feels awesome :D the extra pads and all that are fun to mess with. I guess another note is aftertouch, the Essentials don't have aftertouch and your MKII will


I have the M Audio Hammer 88 for my weighted action, so i don't really miss anything. I got the MKII because I really like a premium keybed feel...I've been around synths and keyboards for well over 30 years now...played them all, so was time for something decent. I have been using a Korg Microkey 37...due to space limitations, it fit the bill AND it has a surprisingly good feel...nice resistance to the keys, plus a mod and pitch wheel + sustain pedal. But now space isn't such a concern, and wanted to upgrade. 

Difference between semi-weighted and synth style, is that semi-weighted has a bit of a "weight" similar to what a hammer action would feel like...usually also has actual weights inside. Synth keys are meant for fast unobtrusive playing...usually with springs and some resistance inside. Think Moog synths. The quality between keybeds will differ greatly. Compare a cheap Casio $150 keyboard to an NI S61 and you can instantly get an idea of the vast differences that the same type of keybeds have. I haven't tried the keylab MKII, but apparently it's their flagship keybed...and got rave reviews...so I went for it. The NI S series was a consideration but are ridiculously priced, and since I don't use the Komplete Kontrol features, it's not worth it. However...I would have gone for the 88 key version even at $1000, because it does feel pretty nice.

I am looking forward to the after touch...never had a keyboard with it, so curious to how it will integrate with the usual Vi's we all have for orchestral programming. If I can assign vibrato control to it, that would be fantastic!


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## Karmand (Jun 15, 2021)

@jaketanner pls let us know how you like the new board.


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## jaketanner (Jun 15, 2021)

Karmand said:


> @jaketanner pls let us know how you like the new board.


It's great! No complaints...however I do not use the majority of the features..I simply use it for MIDI input...not DAW or synth integration. However, I did test that out and all works fine. I can easily play a piano part if I had to with it.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 16, 2022)

darkogav said:


> I suspect the business model behind some of those keyboards is to sell the software.
> 
> You could look at Roland MIDI controllers.
> 
> ...


i like the looks of the A-800 Pro - wish i would have done more research before i bought the T6.


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## Elrik Settee (Jan 16, 2022)

Trancer said:


> Thanks for your feedback.
> 
> The NI S61 mk2 is, according to no users, a really excellent keyboard and a seemingly exceptional keyboard feel.
> 
> ...


Key points about the NI/Izotope merger/taleover/whatever.

I can't see the new strip-mining private equity parasites wasting money on developing new hardware. Can't even see them making the KK and K GUIs 'retina' scalable.

What both NI and iZ will do and are doing since BF, is an endless stream of buyitnow clickbait gamified special price timelimited money grabbing, back catalogue-milking offers like the current Cremona. Don't get me wrong, I use K everyday, and I have K13U, I just hate the Gordon Geckos.

Also the keybed in the Arturia 'inessential' [aka Pro] is a Fatar and is very good, some say.


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## Elrik Settee (Jan 16, 2022)

BradHoyt said:


> Im surprised that no one has mentioned the M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61. Anyone have thoughts on that?


I've had two M-A kb, and they suffer from manufacturing defects nd un updated software. Hence the Search for THe Bindle of Doom, to make the much touted 'DirectLink' to work, which it does, just, on my M-Audio Axiom61 mk2. My next MacOS update will kill it. My Oxygen mk2 [or 3?] stopped working - it goes to sleep at random. $2 capacitor I 'm told, easy soldering job. So - Russian Roulette. M-A is own by another 'Engulf and Devour': the infamous InMusic group. They own Sonivox and AIR. And have only done maintenance updates on them since the mid 50s.

And yes, it's about selling software. Like Gillette razors - same business model.

For now, Arturia and V collection are not in the hands of Wall St, but they will be.

Checkout http://www.gloomcast.com (www.gloomcast.com) my cheery mindfulness blog.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 16, 2022)

Elrik Settee said:


> My Oxygen mk2 [or 3?] stopped working - it goes to sleep at random.


that's what was happing with my Hammer 88 Pro.


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## Elrik Settee (Jan 16, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> that's what was happing with my Hammer 88 Pro.


It's likely to be a blown capacitor or similar. InMusic inc., scrimping on the components bill to make a bit more profit. Do you have handy friends who can do soldering n stuff?

When I googled it a few years ago I found a webpage by an electronics guy, or was it a youtube, showing how easy it is to replace the capacitor with a slightly better one for a couple of quid. You can spot a bulging capacitor easily. Note the spec printed on it and get a beefier one.

A job for a handy person with some basic understanding of electronics. Maybe you can do that?

Good luck.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 16, 2022)

Elrik Settee said:


> It's likely to be a blown capacitor or similar. InMusic inc., scrimping on the components bill to make a bit more profit. Do you have handy friends who can do soldering n stuff?
> 
> When I googled it a few years ago I found a webpage by an electronics guy, or was it a youtube, showing how easy it is to replace the capacitor with a slightly better one for a couple of quid. You can spot a bulging capacitor easily. Note the spec printed on it and get a beefier one.
> 
> ...


I contacted M-Audio support.

They told me to send it back and they would send me a new, fully tested A stock unit.

Unfortunately, FedEx lost the package back from M-Audio Nevada.

Now M-Audio has to file a claim with FedEx to get a refund.

In limbo at the moment.

Thanks for the tip. I'll search for the site with the fix. I'm pretty good with electronics- ME/ID new product development is my day job


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## Elrik Settee (Jan 16, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I contacted M-Audio support.
> 
> They told me to send it back and they would send me a new, fully tested A stock unit.
> 
> ...


IMHO, M-A design good products, then the bean counters cheese-pare the price of the components, and don't allocate any programming time to basic maintenance like editing the dreaded DL bundle of whatever. That's what you get when you sell your company to da Man, maan.


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