# Poll: Most useful Logic suggestions? Please keep voting! :-)



## Vik (Feb 26, 2016)

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/apple-logic-pro/1070899-favourite-logic-pro-wishes-part-two.html


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## Vik (Oct 8, 2017)

Hi again, I have added many of the questions from the ongoing polls at that other forum to this thread.

It's more than four years since Logic 10 was released, and I plan to send the outcome of this poll to Apple - so please vote!

You can vote for as many poll options you want, and also change your votes later.

Please add suggestions to the thread in any of your major Logic wishes aren't on the list.


(Regarding "One should be able to grab/move/copy audio slices* instantly": 

This is a suggestion about an extra, alternative editing mode, which would be perfect for many audio editing situations, and implies that that you can edit a drum or vocal track without needing to separate each word or drum hit first: if you have a good version of a word in bar 9 which you want to use in bar 25, you just grab it like you would have done with a MIDI event in the Piano Toll, and move it to wherever you want it.)


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## Soundhound (Oct 8, 2017)

The entry 'Multiple tabs in tracks areas' gets at this, but the biggest reason I sometimes work I studio one now is the scratchpad function. Being able to easily switch between alternate ideas is really useful. I would love to see something like this in logic


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## mc_deli (Oct 8, 2017)

Unlink mixer window selections from the main window (as was L9, so you can easily see your choice of tracks in different mixer windows without them changing when you select a track in the main window - and no, without having to resort to the environment)


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## Vik (Oct 9, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> The entry 'Multiple tabs in tracks areas' gets at this, but the biggest reason I sometimes work I studio one now is the scratchpad function. Being able to easily switch between alternate ideas is really useful. I would love to see something like this in logic


Since Logic already has Project Alternatives, and also an global Arrangment track - don't you think that if one could open one of these project alternatives in a separate Tab, that Logic would get all that's needed to replicate Studio One's Scratch Pad?


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## jcrosby (Oct 9, 2017)

_Replace MIDIDraw with automation_

^^^^^^
Good god I hate MIDI Draw. It's called automation to the rest of the universe and it used to be a thing...


_Something else (please post your ideas in the thread)_

I'd like to see _user definable _drummer personas; i.e. something useful for people working across none of the canned, generic music genres. Even more interesting? Extend it to melodic content... Potentially handy by analyzing a midi track and creating some useful variations... Hey Apple, I'll even call one _Steve _for old time's sake 

(AND STOP DROPPING OS's. ((Yeah good luck with this... *eyeroll*))
Nonetheless my Darth Vader level HATRED for Apple grows while you attempt to forcefully upgrade user operating systems in dot versions. At some point I'll figure out how to mentally choke out your board members using the Force.
Or I'll just ditch Apple and switch to some kind of Windows alternative )


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## Heinigoldstein (Oct 9, 2017)

Since I have most of my CCs in a lane set of the step editor as an overview, I´ld love to have the possibility to sync the view of the CCs. F.e. - I select CC3 in my step editor and all other editors view CC3 too.

Same with zoom. I often use a piano role underneath a score editor and it would be great, if I could link the zoom to always view the same amount of bars in both editors.


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## Soundhound (Oct 9, 2017)

Ah, I see what you're getting at. Yes that's an interesting idea. The difference though is that Alternatives are really just separate projects, accessible through the alternatives menu. (correct me if I'm wrong, anyone! I'm wrong quite regularly...) And as such it means it's loading up the instruments every time you change alternatives. The great thing about the scratchpad in Studio One is that it's a completely different Arrangement, if you will, but within the same project file. It lets me try out as many variations and experiments as I'd like without affecting the main area. It's really been a great tool for me.

It is the same thing as having variations down the timeline in Logic, but I always found that to get kind of messy, easy to wind up making errors that way.



Vik said:


> Since Logic already has Project Alternatives, and also an global Arrangment track - don't you think that if one could open one of these project alternatives in a separate Tab, that Logic would get all that's needed to replicate Studio One's Scratch Pad?


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## Vik (Oct 9, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> And as such it means it's loading up the instruments every time you change alternatives.


What does S1 do, if the two versions should happen to use different sample libraries? Does it keep both in memory at the same time?


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## Soundhound (Oct 9, 2017)

it uses only the same tracks. so it's really for versions of the same cue etc. i use it when working out versions, but mostly for working out initial ideas 



Vik said:


> What does S1 do, if the two versions should happen to use different sample libraries? Does it keep both in memory at the same time?


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## Vik (Oct 9, 2017)

"it uses only the same tracks."
What happens wth track automation then?


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## Kent (Oct 10, 2017)

Logic should:

Have better track organization options (folders/stacks/focus/search/etc.);

Use the same resources for Alternatives (e.g., not having to reload identical instances of Kontakt when switching between two);

Provide a global track color randomizer, preferably with options to pick within a general hue (e.g. make all selected tracks shades of red/pink);

Truly utilize AU v3 already!


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Oct 10, 2017)

kmaster said:


> Logic should:
> 
> Have better track organization options (folders/stacks/focus/search/etc.);
> 
> ...


As I understand it from reading up on it and a friend of mine explaing. AUv3 is down to the developers to use it. NI have not got on board with VST3 so I doubt they will do the same with AUv3 either. I know VSL were working on it, but there were code changes also from Apple that halted their development.


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## Saxer (Oct 10, 2017)

For score editing:
I wish there was a possibility to adjust the vertical position of automatic rests of voices in polyphonic score styles. Especially for drum scoring it would become at least readable when the rests of the upper voice (hihats/cymbals) were on top of the system instead of clashing in the middle with snare and toms.
I know, you can insert pause symbols from the part box and adjust them manually (thats what I do again and again and again) but in a single drum score are hundreds of them! Doing that manually is a PITA. So pleeeeaaase


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## Vik (Oct 10, 2017)

Regarding "Scissor tool should optionally snap to transients when editing audio regions. Marquee: add an opt", that was of course a pasting accident: by a mistake two ideas from that other poll was pasted into one line in this polls, and truncated. The last part if that text was was originally "Marquee: add an option to snap to transient". I couldn't really see what I pasted in at that point, since due to some hiccup in the forum software (or my Mac?) the text boxes I pasted into had become very small. But now at least you know what happened.


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## Soundhound (Oct 10, 2017)

I think the automation in any scratchpad is independent from other scratchpads as well as the main area. 



Vik said:


> "it uses only the same tracks."
> What happens wth track automation then?


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## jcrosby (Oct 11, 2017)

kmaster said:


> Logic should:
> 
> Have better track organization options (folders/stacks/focus/search/etc.);
> 
> Use the same resources for Alternatives (e.g., not having to reload identical instances of Kontakt when switching between two)



Yes. Alternative sound good on paper but kind of suck in practice. Something like scratch pads, and 'alternatives' that don't need to reload and kick everything out of memory would be a hell of a lot more useful.


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## jcrosby (Oct 11, 2017)

Since this is being shipped to Apple...

_.............................................................................................

Things Logic should already do by now:_

A proper fully customizable file browser with bookmarks/shortcuts configurable by the user. (This is where Logic shows its age. The appleloops browser and file management window are a sad throwback to a decade ago and the library does nothing to address loops, midi clips or anything that's not a channel setting.)

Fully non-destructive audio editor where slicing is a native feature at the click of a button, and all processing is non-destructive. (Every DAW does this better than Logic.)

File browser with tempo synch for all file types. (Please, just kill appleloops already, at least as a browser format. You nuked the appleloop app and no one develops for it anymore. So whats with the anitquated file format? Browsable synched wav/rex/insert-format-here already please.)

Proper MIDI automation lanes: Expression maps, CCs, MIDI Draw, Clip automation, whatever the user wants... definable from a pulldow, on the fly, per track. (Again, logic is basically a dinosaur here.)

Plugin manager: User folders display categorized/renamed plugins in the AU column, not with or underneath Logic's plugins. Columns needed for category - e.g. Audio Units --> Dynamics->FabFilter->Pro-MB.

Several more user track icon tabs.


*10.3.2 BUGS:*

*Movie randomly freezes during playback.*
Solutions range from closing movie window to inspector and re-opening again, to being forced to re-start Logic.

*Bounce in place on tracks with busses, (E.G. Logic Drummer, Track Stacks, Nested Busses, etc), all render any plugin's latency into the audio file*.
Even Logic's native plugins such as Adaptive Limiter render audio files with empty space ("latency") at audio file's start. The empty space varies with plugin to plugin and is defined by latency required by the plugin. This behavior has been observed with - Adaptive Limiter, Linear Phase EQ, Match-EQ in Linear Phase Mode, and various 3rd party developers. The result are audio files with visible latency that are visually and audibly out of sycnh from non-bounced tracks.


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## dgburns (Oct 11, 2017)

Not sure if it's been said-

The ability to store the state of a track stack folder open/close with screenset.
The ability to store the hide/unhide state of an arrange track with screenset.

Seems kinda obvious to me....


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## samphony (Oct 11, 2017)

dgburns said:


> Not sure if it's been said-
> 
> The ability to store the state of a track stack folder open/close with screenset.
> The ability to store the hide/unhide state of an arrange track with screenset.
> ...




Haha here is my feature request from a couple of days ago. 

Remember Track Stack open/close and track hide state per screen set 

would be an elegant extension to the screen sets usability if the user 
could store the Track Stack open/close and track show/hide state per screen set when it is locked. 
Screen sets up until now (logic 10.3.2) remember tools, zoom, scroll state so why not adding new abilities to
this feature set?

independent show/hide state of tracks per Screen Set:

Instead of carrying over the hide button state for tracks through all screen sets globally per project an option could be introduced that allows to set the track hide state per screen set. This would users with high track counts (think of i.e. orchestral music with single articulation per track per group style of working) allow to use screen sets to navigate to certain sections like strings, brass, woodwinds, synths low but keep a birds-eye view on all tracks if needed which would be impossible if groups of tracks are packed into region folders. 

If that is not doable then allowing to remember independent track stack open/close states for screen sets would help here too. So the user could open just the strings track stack and have all other track stacks closed. When switching to the brass screen set (yes I name my screen sets) all stacks except the brass stack are closed.


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## Vik (Oct 11, 2017)

kmaster said:


> Have better track organization options (folders/stacks/focus/search/etc.);


Which options do you want for folders/stacks - and what do you mean by 'focus'?


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## Kent (Oct 11, 2017)

Vik said:


> Which options do you want for folders/stacks - and what do you mean by 'focus'?


Every other major DAW I can think of allows folders within folders. Logic only allows one summing stack inside one track stack. I’d like to have more flexibility in regard to number and type of parent/children relationships.

Searching for tracks of a specific name or parent, or displaying them easily, is what I meant by “focus.”


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## samphony (Oct 11, 2017)

Yeah a spotlight style search within the track list in the workspace is long overdue. 
(like Digital Performer does it.)

But it shouldn’t stop there. Users should have the opportunity to assign all of the 32 available groups to key commands. This would allow to show/hide more than 9 groups like it is implemented since Logic Pro 9.


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## Kent (Oct 11, 2017)

Oh, and easily one of the biggest: I’d love to be able to unload/reload an instance (say, of Kontakt) from RAM, and/or relatedly, _easily_ interact with VE Pro 6 to do the same - some kind of assignable track button or something.

Now that I think about it, it would also be cool to assign the stock compressor and stock EQ views in any track to third-party - just by assigning those meters to “look” for the curve/effects of the third-party plug via something assignable via drag and drop or something else mindless....but that may require more of third parties than I realize.


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## Vik (Oct 11, 2017)

kmaster said:


> I’d love to be able to unload/reload an instance (say, of Kontakt) from RAM


I guess the only way to do that now is to manually save the current status of Kontakt (or the channel strip), unload Kontakt (or reset the channel strip) and then reload Kontakt (or the channel strip) again when needed. What you suggest is somehow related to a wish which is important for many of us: "Freeze (and/or the track on/off button) should optionally also load/unload Kontakt samples", which already is in the poll. But my guess is that it wouldn't be that hard for Apple to implement any of these, since it seems like implementing a macro which does several of the things we already can do.


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## mc_deli (Oct 11, 2017)

TBH I would sacrifice any new improvements/features and plenty of old improvements/features if the Logic team "fixed" the single core overload "bug".

My cynical side says this is crippleware. It is the biggest limiting factor when it comes to less expensive hardware being able to handle more challenging projects. It can't just be a coincidence. We know other audio apps handle multicore loads differently, more evenly, and better. We know it's possible. For all the work the Logic team has done in the last couple of years with amazing updates this omission really stands out.


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## luke_7 (Oct 12, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> TBH I would sacrifice any new improvements/features and plenty of old improvements/features if the Logic team "fixed" the single core overload "bug".
> 
> My cynical side says this is crippleware. It is the biggest limiting factor when it comes to less expensive hardware being able to handle more challenging projects. It can't just be a coincidence. We know other audio apps handle multicore loads differently, more evenly, and better. We know it's possible. For all the work the Logic team has done in the last couple of years with amazing updates this omission really stands out.



Strange, single core overload ? In my case (Logic pro X 10.3.2 / El Capitan 10.11.6 on new trash can, everything in Logic NO VIENNA ENSEMBLE ! ) amongst other well known DAWs Logic has by far the best performance for me. Actually this is one of the reasons I switched from Cubase to Logic and I love it.


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## mc_deli (Oct 12, 2017)

luke_7 said:


> Strange, single core overload ? In my case (Logic pro X 10.3.2 / El Capitan 10.11.6 on new trash can, everything in Logic NO VIENNA ENSEMBLE ! ) amongst other well known DAWs Logic has by far the best performance for me. Actually this is one of the reasons I switched from Cubase to Logic and I love it.


The "new trash can" part kinda is my point


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## Vik (Oct 14, 2017)

And the winners, so far, are:

(updated after 480 votes - this overview covers all suggestions with more than 20%)



All MIDI editors should have multiple region automation/multiple hyper edit lanes (like Cubase etc) 57,1 %
Expression maps - like Cubase and others (but based on Articulation IDs) 54,8 %
Ability to move channel strips in the Mixer 52,4 %
A way to easily control CC/articulations for all libraries using the same commands 40,5 %
Make the color palette customizable 38,1 %
Streamline the workflow for Kontakt CC automation (like Cubase and others) 33,3 %
AUs should be able to send Midi out 26,2 %
Full, direct Articulation ID control to/from Logic and AudioUnits 26,2 %
Undo for everything, including fader moves/separate Undo for the Mixer 26,2 %
Focus on features which are useful for making better compositions, not just better mixes 23,8 %
“Save selected tracks as new project” 21,4 %

Please keep voting, guys!


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## CT (Oct 14, 2017)

Score editor, score editor, score editor, anything that improves the score editor!


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## Soundhound (Oct 14, 2017)

Scratch pad! Just look at what Studio One does, it's fantasicness. 

If they do this I promise to run every day, eat right and get enough sleep. And batch resave.


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## Dom (Oct 15, 2017)

Midi FX slot on Multitimbral Aux (audio) sub-channels. For those of us who use VE Pro and use Midi scripting for articulation switching for example.


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## Chris Hurst (Oct 15, 2017)

I love Logic. To bits. I consider myself pretty comfortable with it, but having also used Reaper & Cubase, I do feel as though it misses a few features from those that would improve it even more.

Multiple controller lanes is a no-brainer for me, but I also love The PLE in Cubase and Actions in Reaper which will let you do pretty much what you want with the MIDI or visibility at the click of a button. Logic is a little behind in terms of those features now.

However, it is rock solid for me and never crashes.

I keep on coming back to it, even after using the alternatives for a while.


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## Vik (Oct 15, 2017)

Chris Hurst said:


> I also love The PLE in Cubase


Pardon my ignorance, but isn't the Logical Editor in Cubase more or less a copy of Transform in Logic?


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## Chris Hurst (Oct 15, 2017)

Vik said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but isn't the Logical Editor in Cubase more or less a copy of Transform in Logic?



Similar functionality yes, but I prefer having the commands mapped to a button on a touch screen for my workflow. Easier in Cubase (and Reaper) than Logic in my experience so far, but the functionality is similar between them.


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## VinRice (Oct 16, 2017)

Multiple Marker Tracks...


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## Vik (Oct 16, 2017)

VinRice said:


> Multiple Marker Tracks...


I only need one set of markers, and I’m not by my computer now - but I think Logic already has multiple marker tracks. Make the marker track area, and you’ll probably see some more options.


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## samphony (Oct 16, 2017)

Vik said:


> I only need one set of markers, and I’m not by my computer now - but I think Logic already has multiple marker tracks. Make the marker track area, and you’ll probably see some more options.



Hey vik I think with multiple marker tracks he means multiple marker tracks visible at the same time.


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## VinRice (Oct 17, 2017)

Vik said:


> I only need one set of markers, and I’m not by my computer now - but I think Logic already has multiple marker tracks. Make the marker track area, and you’ll probably see some more options.



Come on man, Logic has one Marker track and one Arrangement track. Multiple marker tracks are very useful for scoring to picture. It's one of the things I like in Cubase, although they are not implemented very well.


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## Vik (Oct 17, 2017)

samphony said:


> I think with multiple marker tracks he means multiple marker tracks visible at the same time.


OK - Logic doesn't have a solution if one wants to look at several marker sets at the same time. But it has multiple marker sets.


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## VinRice (Oct 17, 2017)

Vik said:


> OK - Logic doesn't have a solution if one wants to look at several marker sets at the same time. But it has multiple marker sets.



Yeah, I was looking for multiple visible tracks but actually hadn't fully understood the functionality of the marker sets so thanks for pointing me in that direction.


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## samphony (Oct 17, 2017)

Vik said:


> OK - Logic doesn't have a solution if one wants to look at several marker sets at the same time. But it has multiple marker sets.


I couldn’t live without these. Marker, Tempo, signature all of them have the ability which I use since it’s introduction.


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## Vik (Oct 18, 2017)

samphony said:


> I couldn’t live without these. Marker, Tempo, signature all of them have the ability which I use since it’s introduction.


But why is it important - for some of you - to see multiple marker sets at the same time?


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## samphony (Oct 18, 2017)

Vik said:


> But why is it important - for some of you - to see multiple marker sets at the same time?



My reply was pointed at the fact that I like the multiple marker sets implementation.


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## Vik (Oct 19, 2017)

samphony said:


> My reply was pointed at the fact that I like the multiple marker sets implementation.


Thanks, I see - maybe nobody actually will miss dedicated separate marker tracks when they realise that Logic has multiple marker sets. Personally, I tend to think that marker sets represent a slightly better solution than multiple global marker tracks.

Btw, these have been added to the list since the poll started: 

Logic shouldn't be relying on a single core for realtime jobs
Track export should sound like track solo
Folders/Stacks: more flexibility with regards to parent/children relationships
Spotlight style search within the track list
Scratch Pad - like Studio One

Adding this one now:
"a way to adjust vertical position of automatic rests of voices in polyphonic score styles"


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## samphony (Oct 19, 2017)

Oh there is one feature I thought about for a while. I would like to be able to pin tracks to the top. Like in a spreadsheet.

LPX Pin tracks to top below the global tracks


It would help in large projects if we could pin multiple tracks to the top below the global tracks.

Like in numbers (freeze rows or columns) or Notes in High Sierra.


Users could pin most important tracks or track stacks to the top like guide, piano, movie audio, dialog etc. That way if the user scrolls the track list these tracks stay visible all the time like global tracks do.


This will work either by using the key command “Toggle Pin Tracks to Top” (has to work on multiple selected tracks as well), secondary click on the track header and choose Pin Track to Top or by clicking the glyph icon on the track header if enabled via configure track header.


Use case:



Select one or multiple tracks
Execute “Toggle Pin Tracks to Top”
Tracks will slide to the top below the global tracks area
Track header automatically reveals the pin glyph for all tracks
Pinned tracks behave like global tracks on vertical scroll


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## Vik (Oct 25, 2017)

Hi all, remember that you can edit your votes (and vote for as many or few suggestions as you like). Please do that soon if you eg want to vote for some of the latest items on the list - or if you should be interested in bumping up some of your own fav. functions by removing votes for some of the others. I'll send the outcome of the poll to Apple within a few days.


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## jcrosby (Oct 26, 2017)

When are you sending this off? I have a major bug documented with video and was hoping to post a link t video in this thread before it went to Apple...


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## Vik (Oct 26, 2017)

How long time do you need to make the video?


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## Vik (Oct 27, 2017)

OK, I'll set a deadline to next weekend. Btw, there's still room for 5 more wishes on that list - which, btw looks like this now (sorted by votes/percentage).





All MIDI editors should have multiple region automation/multiple hyper edit lanes (like Cubase etc)

58,3 %

Expression maps - like Cubase and others (but based on Articulation IDs)

56,3 %

Ability to move channel strips in the Mixer

56,3 %

A way to easily control CC/articulations for all libraries using the same commands

41,7 %

Make the colour palette customisable

37,5 %

Streamline the workflow for Kontakt CC automation (like Cubase and others)

33,3 %

Full, direct Articulation ID control to/from Logic and AudioUnits

29,2 %

AUs should be able to send Midi out

27,1 %

Undo for everything, including fader moves/separate Undo for the Mixer

27,1 %

Score: The ability to enter notes on an iPad with a Stylus and have them pop up in Score

20,8 %

“Save selected tracks as new project”

20,8 %

Focus on features which are useful for making better compositions, not just better mixes

20,8 %

Score: Ability to drag notes between staves (tracks)

18,8 %

Score needs a lot more attention from Apple, and I'm willing to pay for it

18,8 %

A pencil tool which freely can draw curved lines

18,8 %

Flex MIDI: All Flex Time features for MIDI as well

16,7 %

Score: Slurs should be attached to notes/stems

16,7 %

Score: It should be easier to produce really good looking results

16,7 %

The ability to see track notes in Arrange

16,7 %

Ability to mark presets as favorites

16,7 %

General score/MIDI/composing improvements

16,7 %

Scissor tool should optionally snap to transients when editing audio regions.Marquee: add an opt

16,7 %

Quick swipe comping for midi takes

14,6 %

Score: a dedicated parameter for polyphonic voices, so MIDI channels can be used for something else

14,6 %

Score: The capacity to drag bar lines to edit bar size

14,6 %

Score: General grace note improvements

14,6 %

Score: Tremolo signs should be attached to notes/stems

14,6 %

Transparent audio regions (see grid through regions)

14,6 %

Make Smart Controls a lot smarter

14,6 %

Instead of Prefs and Proj. Settings, define if a setting should be used for all projects or not

14,6 %

Improve Flex Time/Better quality when time-stretching

14,6 %

All edits (eg crossfades) should be possible when multiple tracks regions are selected

14,6 %

Full Melodyne support

14,6 %

• Logic shouldn't be relying on a single core for realtime jobs (added Oct10)

14,6 %

• Folders/Stacks: more flexibility with regards to parent/children relationships (added Oct10)

14,6 %

Polyphonic audio to MIDI

12,5 %

MIDI: Fast and super easy ways to change articulations score and other editors

12,5 %

Score: Ability to hide rests, one by one (like Dorico)

12,5 %

Score: better automatic recognition of perfectly quantised triplets

12,5 %

Score: Better display of accidentals. Example: Don't call the G# in E major for Ab

12,5 %

Score: Smart, tweakable slurs

12,5 %

Score: Smarter entering of N-tuplets

12,5 %

Flex: Ability to use Flex Pitch and Flex time on the same region

12,5 %

A single key command that hides/shows everything (editor areas etc) but the main Arrange area

12,5 %

A contrast/brightness preference setting

12,5 %

Freeze (and/or the track on/off button) should optionally also load/unload Kontakt samples

12,5 %

Multiple tabs in Tracks Area for use as a notepad for ideas/workspace etc (w/separate timeline?)

12,5 %

Built in tape emulation

12,5 %

Option to see the piano roll flipped 90 degrees, so it looks like an actual piano (like Notator had)

10,4 %

MIDI: A new "Selected next/previous event(s)" which plays full chords (like Sibelius)

10,4 %

Something akin to VST Expressions

10,4 %

Score: better *automatic* transcription of played material that includes polyphony

10,4 %

Score: "magnetic objects/layout" + and 'optimise layout (like Sibelius)

10,4 %

Score: Simple way to print chord sheets (without notes/staves: only chord symbols between bar lines)

10,4 %

Score: Automatic recognition and display of played grace notes

10,4 %

Score: Edit edit stem direction of each note individually when 2 or more exist on the same beat

10,4 %

Less confusing track naming

10,4 %

Nondestructive region-based audio-units

10,4 %

Select many regions and edit/add automation without having to group them first

10,4 %

Option to show each MIDI channel of a MIDI track in a separate lane in Tracks Area

10,4 %

Region gain accessible directly in regions (like Clip Gain in PT)

10,4 %

Ability to easily draw lines which increment/decrement existing values (absolute/relative)

10,4 %

Smart background auto-freeze when in Stop Mode

10,4 %

Something else (please post your ideas in the thread)

10,4 %

An Ideas Hub for global storing of user ideas (like Sibelius)

8,3 %

MIDI: "Select Next/Previous" which plays all chord notes on *all* MIDI tracks

8,3 %

Piano roll editing of MIDI parts in the Tracks Area that picks up your main piano roll preferences

8,3 %

Score: Simpler way to enter/edit chords symbols, especially complex/jazz chords with extensions

8,3 %

Score: Simpler ways to perform edits that currently require use of polyphonic mode

8,3 %

One should be able to grab/move/copy audio slices* instantly

8,3 %

Bring back option to have track names shown in a separate column in Arrange

8,3 %

A mode where enabling solo will disable solo for the other tracks w/o use of modifier

8,3 %

A way to freeze a track at any plugin slot we want: eg. until slot 3, pre-fader

8,3 %

Built in tube emulation

8,3 %

Replace MIDIDraw with automation

8,3 %

Audio to MIDI which translates pitch bends/vibrato/volume

8,3 %

More frequent major updates

8,3 %

Score: Real Book-compatible chord symbol look / behaviour (like Dorico)

6,3 %

Score: Rehearsal Marks/ Global Markings

6,3 %

Full 32-bit audio file support/bounces

6,3 %

Flex/Fill Gaps should use stretching instead of looping. See ReCycle/Reaper AutoPocket

6,3 %

Direct Monitoring control (ASIO Direct Monitoring) for all hardware

6,3 %

Ability to create audio and/or MIDI harmonies

6,3 %

Junction Tool on Midi Regions AND in MIDI notes

4,2 %

Score: Show note names inside the note heads and flats/sharps WHEN inserting or editing them

4,2 %

Score: Traditional piano fingering numbers above notes

4,2 %

A MIDI transposition mode which plays full chords back when editing one single chord note (Sibelius)

4,2 %

• Track export should sound like track solo (added Oct10)

4,2 %

• Scratch Pad -like Studio One (added Oct14)

4,2 %

Add features from Soundtrack Pro

2,1 %

• Spotlight style search within the track list (added Oct10)

2,1 %

• Polyphonic score styles: A way to adjust vertical position of autom. rests (added Oct19)

2,1 %

• Ability to pin tracks to the top of the track list (added Oct20)

2,1 %

• A more efficient method for entering lyrics (added Oct20)

0,0 %


----------



## Vik (Oct 29, 2017)

Regarding "Focus on features which are useful for making better compositions, not just better mixes":
That's a very general statement, and will of course easily trigger comments about the music needs to be made by the composer, not the software etc. 

Nevertheless: software is only a tool, and there are ways to make useful tools for the composition process also - which should be useful and time saving for both composers and newbies. 


Some examples:

Invert chord upwards: (which takes the lowest note in a chord and places it above the highest), so CEG becomes EGC
Invert chord downwards
Collect chord: 
Spread chord:
Add diatonic 3rd above 
Add diatonic 3rd below 
Add diatonic 6th above
Add diatonic 6th below
Collect chord notes (which brings all the notes in a spread out chord closer to the tonal center of the chord)
Spread chord: which eg makes and C3 E3 G3 triad into a C, G and an E above the G
These three key command suggestions from the poll itself is also composing oriented: 
"A new "Selected next/previous event(s)" which plays full chords (like Sibelius)"
"A MIDI transposition mode which plays full chords back when editing one single chord note (Sibelius)" 
"An Ideas Hub for global storing of user ideas (like Sibelius)"


----------



## bjderganc (Oct 29, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> TBH I would sacrifice any new improvements/features and plenty of old improvements/features if the Logic team "fixed" the single core overload "bug".
> 
> My cynical side says this is crippleware. It is the biggest limiting factor when it comes to less expensive hardware being able to handle more challenging projects. It can't just be a coincidence. We know other audio apps handle multicore loads differently, more evenly, and better. We know it's possible. For all the work the Logic team has done in the last couple of years with amazing updates this omission really stands out.



Can you explain this further? Different DAWs have differing levels of efficiency, but I'm skeptical that a "single-core bug" exists.


----------



## Soundhound (Oct 29, 2017)

The scratchpad entry seems like it might be limited by the Tab idea, might that be too prescriptive? I was thinking just the idea of scratchpads, as in a way to have variations of the piece you're working on. Studio One's approach for this works very well, I'd think there would be many ways to skin that cat. Asking for a 'Tab' seems like it could limit the idea?


----------



## MarcelM (Oct 29, 2017)

i really really hope this gets some attention and we get atleast the top5 features.


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## mc_deli (Oct 29, 2017)

bjderganc said:


> Can you explain this further? Different DAWs have differing levels of efficiency, but I'm skeptical that a "single-core bug" exists.


Google a bit or try using Logic  

Your post is quite funny. If I put "logic one core overload" I get over 2 million hits. Look it up. Logic loads one core with the live track's FX and all its associated auxes, FX etc. It means that Logic doesn't evenly distribute processing across all cores in normal working conditions. By normal, I mean a user usually has a track of some kind selected for whatever reason - and this can cripple playback.

It's why a lot of people (have to) arm an empty track during playback to get Logic to even play back (heavy projects) at all.


----------



## samphony (Oct 30, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> Google a bit or try using Logic
> 
> Your post is quite funny. If I put "logic one core overload" I get over 2 million hits. Look it up. Logic loads one core with the live track's FX and all its associated auxes, FX etc. It means that Logic doesn't evenly distribute processing across all cores in normal working conditions. By normal, I mean a user usually has a track of some kind selected for whatever reason - and this can cripple playback.
> 
> It's why a lot of people (have to) arm an empty track during playback to get Logic to even play back (heavy projects) at all.


If I select an instrument track and play the core balance is spread over multiple cores not just one.


----------



## bjderganc (Oct 30, 2017)

This was new to me, probably because it's a fairly specific workflow issue that might not happen with everyone. I don't think the question merited any snark.

There are few scenarios (Tips for Balancing Multi-Core Performance, About the Multithreading Setting in Logic Pro X):


No tracks armed: somewhat even distribution among cores
One track armed, other tracks in project: armed track and connected Aux tracks go to one core, other tracks go to other cores
Multiple Stacks, armed: two cores are used for the armed tracks, other tracks go to other cores


----------



## mc_deli (Oct 30, 2017)

bjderganc said:


> This was new to me, probably because it's a fairly specific workflow issue that might not happen with everyone. I don't think the question merited any snark.
> 
> There are few scenarios (Tips for Balancing Multi-Core Performance, About the Multithreading Setting in Logic Pro X):
> 
> ...


Sorry, I thought you didn't believe me

And this does happen to all Logic users - it's a limitation of Logic - but, depending on what you are using, not everyone notices it


----------



## bjderganc (Oct 30, 2017)

No worries 

I never actually noticed it because I used a VEPro host, or otherwise printed audio, or ran small sessions.

Arming a blank track is a good trick! Hopefully they'll fix that one of these days.


----------



## Vik (Oct 31, 2017)

bjderganc said:


> There are few scenarios (Tips for Balancing Multi-Core Performance, About the Multithreading Setting in Logic Pro X):


These tricks are useful, but IMO there should be more obvious ways to distribute activity across multiple cores in Logic. For example - maybe some of the techniques mentioned in those links could happen automatically/invisibly (in the background) when needed.


----------



## bjderganc (Oct 31, 2017)

Vik said:


> These tricks are useful, but IMO there should be more obvious ways to distribute activity across multiple cores in Logic.



After reading more about it, I definitely support calling it a bug and requesting a fix.
Initially, I thought it was a reference to the kind of single core overloads that every DAW has (not being able to spread the load of a single plugin or channel strip), because audio tasks generally don't run as parallel processes.

The links were just citing current workarounds (minus arming a blank track, which helps a lot). In my tests I was able to use two physical cores for the live tracks, when using stacks.



> For example - maybe some of the techniques mentioned in those links could happen automatically/invisibly (in the background) when needed.



Absolutely.


----------



## Vik (Nov 1, 2017)

A little reminder: you have 6 more days to vote (or alter your votes, if you wish) before I'll send the results to Apple.


Another little reminder:
These suggestions were added to the poll after the voting started, and may therefore deserve some more votes:


Logic shouldn't be relying on a single core for realtime jobs 17.0%
Track export should sound like track solo 3.8%
Folders/Stacks: more flexibility with regards to parent/children relationships 17.0%
Spotlight style search within the track list 1.9%
Scratch Pad - like Studio One 5.7%
Polyphonic score styles: A way to adjust vertical position of autom. rests 3.8%
Ability to pin tracks to the top of the track list 1.9%
A more efficient method for entering lyrics 1.9%



Here are the suggestions which have received votes from more than 20% of the voters so far:


All MIDI editors should have multiple region automation/multiple hyper edit lanes (like Cubase etc) 56,6 %
Ability to move channel strips in the Mixer 56,6 %
Expression maps - like Cubase and others (but based on Articulation IDs) 54,7 %
A way to easily control CC/articulations for all libraries using the same commands 41,5 %
Make the colour palette customisable 37,7 %
Streamline the workflow for Kontakt CC automation (like Cubase and others) 30,2 %
AUs should be able to send Midi out 28,3 %
Full, direct Articulation ID control to/from Logic and AudioUnits 28,3 %
Undo for everything, including fader moves/separate Undo for the Mixer 24,5 %
Score: The ability to enter notes on an iPad with a Stylus and have them pop up in Score 20,8 %
“Save selected tracks as new project” 20,8 %
General score/MIDI/composing improvements 20,8 %
Do you see a pattern in that list?


----------



## MarcusMaximus (Nov 3, 2017)

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, couldn't find it in the list above, but please please request to fix the bug where Freezing a track where any midi fx plugins are instantiated ends up with a silent track . This is a major pain.


----------



## Wunderhorn (Nov 3, 2017)

Have we talked about the new audio unit format yet? Lifting the limitation on MIDI channels etc? I think this was already in the making. I think it is high time for that...


----------



## samphony (Nov 3, 2017)

Wunderhorn said:


> Have we talked about the new audio unit format yet? Lifting the limitation on MIDI channels etc? I think this was already in the making. I think it is high time for that...


It is already implemented. It’s up to developers now to implant it.


----------



## LamaRose (Nov 3, 2017)

As a songwriter, I really love the ease, flexibility, and functional integration of the Drummer in Logic... not sure why folks are so quick to poo-poo it, other than Apple really needs to add dedicated Jazz, Country, & Blues styles/players. It's a platform begging for enhancement. This and the CPU issue(s) are my two main wish list items.


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 4, 2017)

LamaRose said:


> As a songwriter, I really love the ease, flexibility, and functional integration of the Drummer in Logic... not sure why folks are so quick to poo-poo it, other than Apple really needs to add dedicated Jazz, Country, & Blues styles/players. It's a platform begging for enhancement. This and the CPU issue(s) are my two main wish list items.


Totally agree. No different than using EzDrummer midi patterns, Addictive drums etc... Only it's more interactive, something AD2 and EZD are short on in comparison. That said those both come bundled with great patterns, the exact reason why it would be cool if there was a "user" drummer that could essentially riff off of what you feed it. Would love to see it be able to take some of my own patterns or AD2 patterns and generate completely new ones based on that... 

Agreed the CPU issue should have been dealt with by now. It's just totally ridiculous that a single channel is all it takes to spike your CPU depending on the instrument. Considering the amount of people on laptops these days you'd think it would be in Apple's interest to address it...


----------



## TGV (Nov 4, 2017)

Vik said:


> A little reminder: you have 6 more days to vote (or alter your votes, if you wish) before I'll send the results to Apple.


Why would you do that? At least don't claim it's "from the community" or whatever. It's a very biased sample.


----------



## Vik (Nov 4, 2017)

Hi TGV! This poll is representing those who have bothered to vote on this forum, and I think it's a good idea if Apple focuses more on what people who deal with Kontakt/articulations/CC automations/notation/composition etc want to see in Logic. I'm not going to tell them that this is an unbiased poll, I'll include a link to this poll anyway. And I don't think Apple would have been thinking that this is a representation of what all Logic users want even if I told them that the poll was 100% unbiased anyway. 

You may of course also say that it doesn't even represent the users on this forum - but at least the poll has been running in this forum for circa a month... if people choose to not vote, so be it, but this could ideally what those who have voted want to see in Logic. Maybe there should have been more than 100 things on the list, and maybe the poll should have been going on for many months and so on... but its' only a 'snapshot', and from I can tell, the results do tell, in a way, something about what kind of changes VI-users want.


----------



## MarcelM (Nov 4, 2017)

either iam blind or it is not on the list, but a disable instrument track feature like in cubase would be great.

i know you can turn off kontakt, but this wouldnt unload the samples. disable instrument track does, and it would be a good thing for bigger templates.


----------



## Vik (Nov 4, 2017)

The closest on that list is "Freeze (and/or the track on/off button) should optionally also load/unload Kontakt samples".


----------



## Vik (Nov 5, 2017)

Vik said:


> Here are the suggestions which have received votes from more than 20% of the voters so far:
> 
> 
> All MIDI editors should have multiple region automation/multiple hyper edit lanes (like Cubase etc) 56,6 %
> ...


Regarding "Do you see a pattern in that list?": The pattern is simply that half of the suggestions that got more than 20% of the votes are about the same thing: changing the sound of the tracks over time (either by CC/MIDI automation or by changing articulations).

Right now, "Expression maps - like Cubase and others (but based on Articulation IDs)*" *is at the top of the list. But can that even be done within the AudioUnit format? Are there any changes in the AudioUnit format which allows a DAW to send an Articulation ID number as a part of a MIDI message?


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 5, 2017)

Vik said:


> How long time do you need to make the video?



Hey Vik, didn't see the reply before but glad to see it hasn't been sent off yet.

Here's documentation of the bug....
(Pretty damn boring to watch... Skip to about the 3:00 mark to see the latency Logic is rendering into audio _bounced in place_. It seems to specifically apply to multi-out instruments auxes you add with the plus sign. ((Although I have seen latency appear in bounced audio in a few projects where CPU was bogged down and had to BIP. Unfortunately I have not tracked down those steps yet.)) Either way this needs to be fixed as it makes multi-out instruments useless if you need to bounce stems in place due to CPU performance...

Video Documentation:


I've condensed the bug description as follows:

*Steps to reproduce:*

1. Insert multiple out instrument (3rd party or Logic. Both have the same results. Drummer's a good candidate.)
2. Insert plugins that require latency to function. (3rd party or Logic... The more latency the more severe the issue. For Logic Adaptive limiter with lookahead to maximum is the best candidate. For 3rd party any Ozone Maximizer with IRC II, III or IV is a good candidate as it requires large lookahead to catch ISPs.)
3. Solo and bounce each buss in place as if you were creating stems.
4. Notice latency is rendered into the audio files.

5. Un-Solo auxes and bounce a "summed" stereo file of all auxes. Notice latency is still rendered into the audio file.
6. Create a stereo version of the same instrument and add it to a single aux track stack. Add plugins the require latency and bounce in place. Notice no latency is rendered into the audio.

*Summary:* Adding latency producing plugins to "Additional Auxes", (i.e. Multi-out instrument auxes), produces audio files with latency, rendered into the audio, when using "bounce in place".


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 5, 2017)

*Some Last Minute Whistle and Bell Requests:

Better CPU Use: *Vienna Ensemble Pro still reigns supreme in terms of CPU usage. I can host a significantly larger number of VIs in it before my CPU chokes out. Logic certainly should be able to be equally as CPU efficient considering its developed by the manufacturer…
(I'm also finding _multithreading_ set to _playback and live tracks _having little impact when recording MIDI. (And in general.) Yes I can see the cores move around, but usage is pretty much the same…
*

Midi CC option in automation lanes: *No midi-draw or unnecessarily complicated views or menus needed, just stright forward CCs being part of the automation menu. Click _Volume_-> automation menu pops up (_MIDI _now shows up underneath _Pan_)-> drawer with controller numbers/names pops up. (If CC data is already written in any regions these show up as bold in the list. Adding another lane defaults to MIDI once selected (as typically you edit more than one MIDI CC at a time); volume/pan/plugins freely switchable in any automation lane from the same pulldown.)
*

Unload bypassed instruments from RAM: *One of the many reasons why Logic users who use VEP love it. Allows for instruments to be available without eating memory. This is one of the main attractions VEP and Cubase Provide. Logic should have the same behavior.
*

Export auxes/busses in export dialogue: *An option to only export auxes. (A disclosure triangle with tick boxes specifying which ones would be ideal.)
*

Larger Audio Buffer than 1024. *(If implementing meant it would improve CPU use.)
*

A multi-slot effect/instrument rack with parallel processing options: *A multi-effect/instrument rack with parallel routing would make a lot of people's lives easier... The main attraction here is the ability to save parallel chains instead of having to recall aux strip settings after setting up a send. PRETTY PLEASE!


----------



## Vik (Nov 5, 2017)

That’s a brilliant little list, jcrosby!


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## Vik (Nov 6, 2017)

jcrosby said:


> *Some Last Minute Whistle and Bell Requests:
> 
> Better CPU Use: *Vienna Ensemble Pro still reigns supreme in terms of CPU usage. I can host a significantly larger number of VIs in it before my CPU chokes out. Logic certainly should be able to be equally as CPU efficient considering its developed by the manufacturer…


Yet, Logic is (buy some) said to be very CPU efficient compared with competing DAWs. Maybe the efficiency in VEPro is related to VEPro using much higher buffer sizes (for playback)?
*
*


> *Midi CC option in automation lanes: *No midi-draw or unnecessarily complicated views or menus needed, just stright forward CCs being part of the automation menu. Click _Volume_-> automation menu pops up (_MIDI _now shows up underneath _Pan_)-> drawer with controller numbers/names pops up. (If CC data is already written in any regions these show up as bold in the list. Adding another lane defaults to MIDI once selected (as typically you edit more than one MIDI CC at a time); volume/pan/plugins freely switchable in any automation lane from the same pulldown.)


Today, one needs to switch to showing region automation instead of track automation to see MIDI CC automation in lanes. But it would be OK to be able to see both at the same time. ACtually - any change that would make automation of dynamics, vibrato etc would be very welcome.
*
*


> *Unload bypassed instruments from RAM: *One of the many reasons why Logic users who use VEP love it. Allows for instruments to be available without eating memory. This is one of the main attractions VEP and Cubase Provide. Logic should have the same behavior.


You're talking about the memory used by the actual instruments, right - not by the samples? That would be a great feature, since with large templates the Kontakt instruments can use a lot of memory even with the samples purged. But isn't that something that would be done by - or in conjunction - with Kontakt? How does other DAWs handle this?




> *Larger Audio Buffer than 1024. *(If implementing meant it would improve CPU use.)


I thought buffers mainly had to do with RAM efficiency, and to CPU efficiency - but these two are related to each other, I guess - so there's probably at least 50% risk for being wrong about that. And even if higher buffer settings 'only' would make Logic more RAM efficient, that would be a major improvement. But again - I don't know how well Logic is doing compared with other products here.
*
*


> *A multi-slot effect/instrument rack with parallel processing options:* A multi-effect/instrument rack with parallel routing would make a lot of people's lives easier... The main attraction here is the ability to save parallel chains instead of having to recall aux strip settings after setting up a send. PRETTY PLEASE!


As a separate product, you mean - as if Logic would make it's own "VEPro"? How do you see this implemented? IS that what Cubase does?

*Edit: I've added these to the poll, in case some of the voters want to change their votes and include some of these last minute suggestions in their votes.
This means that the poll will be open a little longer before I send the outcome to Apple.*​


----------



## samphony (Nov 6, 2017)

I like the replace midi cc with automation idea. Especially that we are able to switch between track and region automation. This way using touch latch write to overwrite certain CCs would help. 

I do that thanks to scripted and smart controls but a native solution would be helpful here.


----------



## samphony (Nov 6, 2017)

Oh and another small improvement for me would be if the marquee selection would act like region especially if logics „Drag“ Mode is set to „No Overlap“.


----------



## Vik (Nov 6, 2017)

samphony said:


> Oh and another small improvement for me would be if the marquee selection would act like region especially if logics „Drag“ Mode is set to „No Overlap“.


Please elaborate?


----------



## Ale8ory (Nov 6, 2017)

I wish Logic had a window like in Studio Vision (or even like Finale) where you could set the quantize to x in the time of y. For example 11 eighths in the space of 8 eighths. It seems so simple and would be a tremendous improvement over the tuplet settings in the quantize list.


----------



## samphony (Nov 6, 2017)

Vik said:


> Please elaborate?




Here is a mockup of the behavior I was talking about. (Pro Tools users will recognize what I mean)

Pro Tools "No Overlap" edit mode


Logic "New" "No Overlap Drag/Edit Mode"


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 6, 2017)

Vik said:


> That’s a brilliant little list, jcrosby!


Thank you Vik! Really appreciate it!


----------



## Dom (Nov 6, 2017)

Even more last minute:

*Third party plugins to display EQ curve preview, and compressor gain reduction* on channel strips. Pro Tools can do this (at least for gain reduction) One should be able to define a default EQ and compressor other than Logic stock plugins that opens when double clicking the EQ window, or the gain reduction area in the channelstrip.

*Midi FX plugin slot multi-out instrument AUX channels*. Particularly useful for those of us who use template with VE Pro, and articulation switching via midi scripts.

*Disable/deactivate Plugin *(as mentioned before in various ways), like in Pro Tools. Both for FX inserts and software instruments. Particularly useful with higher latency plugins on buses, where a simple bypass doesn’t bypass the latency, and where low-latency mode is too drastic. Also good for temporarily unloading high RAM usage instruments.

*Multiple surround outputs*. Useful when printing surround stems onto another recorder. While there can be currently multiple surround buses, there is only one surround output.


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## jcrosby (Nov 6, 2017)

Vik said:


> As a separate product, you mean - as if Logic would make it's own "VEPro"? How do you see this implemented? IS that what Cubase does?
> 
> *Edit: I've added these to the poll, in case some of the voters want to change their votes and include some of these last minute suggestions in their votes.
> This means that the poll will be open a little longer before I send the outcome to Apple.*​



I was thinking more along the lines of Studio One's _FX Chains, _Ableton Racks, and Blue Cat's Patchwork... I love my VEP, and no desire to replace it 

Pair this feature with _smart controls_ and you start to get something that has the power of Ableton's Racks but with the fine grain control Logic allows that Live makes challenging...
(Currently I use Patchwork. Having a native option would be a lot nicer...)

It would make it easier to recall plugin strips without having to deal with Logic's ungodly nest of channel strip settings folders... (e.g Track Strips, Buss Strips, Instrument Strips and Master Strips are all located in different parts of the library. Kind of a mess to organize... This keeps everything in once place, nice and tidy.)

And, it allows for recalling processing chains from other instruments without it nuking your current instrument, which is what happens when loading instrument strip settings.... (You'd have to of course recreate your strips, but I'd easily spend a day doing this if this were the benefit...)

For instruments you can create instrument stacks on one channel. I do this in Live and Studio One... Add a kontakt or omnisphere, filter out the lows, add a parallel instance of another synth as a sub and filter out the highs... Or just have stacks of useful instrument combinations... 

Also imagine being able to pull up a rack on selection based processing, you could quickly chain racks into racks quicker. (This assumes they would implement it like a plugin effect, which would be the way to go...)

The potential is pretty awesomeSmart controls could also be streamlined to be easier to map like Live's Macros as well... And as mentioned in the poll, 'make smart controls actually smart'!

E.G.

Studio One:







Patchwork:






Live's Racks with Macros. (E.G. Plugin Chainer + Smart controls)


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 6, 2017)

Vik said:


> Yet, Logic is (buy some) said to be very CPU efficient compared with competing DAWs. Maybe the efficiency in VEPro is related to VEPro using much higher buffer sizes (for playback)?



Agree for sure. If they at least deal with core overload that would be a huge help. 8 out of 10 times I have CPU issues it seems due to core overload... Add instruments into the mix and it's compounded. Either way I can host well over 100 instruments on a pretty beat up 2011 macbook in VEP. On my mac Pro 250-300. Logic can't come nearly this close. I' assuming it has a lot of background stuff to handle... but I'd imagine whatever VEP is doing to achieve such lean CPU use Logic could learn from...

As mentioned in another reply, I see cores 'move around' with _playback and live tracks, _but the CPU hit looks the same to me... I.E. I see the same intensity of spikes, they just get allocated to another core. Who knows maybe I've missed something here?
*
*


Vik said:


> Today, one needs to switch to showing region automation instead of track automation to see MIDI CC automation in lanes. But it would be OK to be able to see both at the same time. ACtually - any change that would make automation of dynamics, vibrato etc would be very welcome.



Definitely. I'd consider it an 'essential' improvement for anyone who use Logic for scoring or orchestral work.



Vik said:


> You're talking about the memory used by the actual instruments, right - not by the samples? That would be a great feature, since with large templates the Kontakt instruments can use a lot of memory even with the samples purged. But isn't that something that would be done by - or in conjunction - with Kontakt? How does other DAWs handle this?



Yes. From What I understand Cubase does this? ( VEP does of course...) I see it requested a lot, and would certainly make working from smaller templates easier. Ideally it'd be nice to break out VEP for the heavy duty stuff but have some native templates for medium to smaller projects. (Film scores as well. I often build unique sound sets and don't mess with VEP on a film unless it specifically needs a bunch of orchestral work. If it's mostly electronic or hybrid I'd prefer to stay in Logic, as hunting for patches and making instrument tweaks is easier to mentally keep track of when it's all in the same place...



Vik said:


> I thought buffers mainly had to do with RAM efficiency, and to CPU efficiency - but these two are related to each other, I guess - so there's probably at least 50% risk for being wrong about that. And even if higher buffer settings 'only' would make Logic more RAM efficient, that would be a major improvement. But again - I don't know how well Logic is doing compared with other products here.



I've always found upping the buffer allows me to use more plugins. I basically wrote with a low buffer and mix with the highest one possible.

Thanks again


----------



## Living Fossil (Nov 6, 2017)

...one thing i really miss is the possibility to send midi data (also controller data) to plug ins....
Using Midi controlled effects in instrument slots is extremely annoying.


----------



## Jack Weaver (Nov 6, 2017)

Solo groups - be able to create them quickly and have a few in memory for quick recall. 

Multiple surround outputs (a way to create multiple surround stems simultaneously).

.


----------



## Vik (Nov 6, 2017)

Ale8ory said:


> I wish Logic had a window like in Studio Vision (or even like Finale) where you could set the quantize to x in the time of y. For example 11 eighths in the space of 8 eighths. It seems so simple and would be a tremendous improvement over the tuplet settings in the quantize list.


And you're of course not thinking of this window, which is quantising what is displayed, but not played:




Or wait - maybe it would work along with this function?


----------



## Christof (Nov 6, 2017)

I would LOVE to have a second marker track, there are workarounds with empty midi regions, but thats not very practical.
And Mix alternatives (like in a digital mixer console).


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## jcrosby (Nov 7, 2017)

Christof said:


> I would LOVE to have a second marker track, there are workarounds with empty midi regions, but thats not very practical.
> And Mix alternatives (like in a digital mixer console).


 Yes definitely. Seeing time and music at the same time is useful. I also like to use markers as notes that I can see in the arrange page... Lots of reasons why this would be an improvement...


----------



## Vik (Nov 7, 2017)

Christof said:


> I would LOVE to have a second marker track, there are workarounds with empty midi regions, but thats not very practical.


Please enlighten me... out of curiosity, why is that better than having this:


----------



## Vik (Nov 7, 2017)

jcrosby said:


> Seeing time and music at the same time is useful


But not like this?


----------



## Dom (Nov 7, 2017)

Jack Weaver said:


> Solo groups - be able to create them quickly and have a few in memory for quick recall.
> 
> Multiple surround outputs (a way to create multiple surround stems simultaneously).
> 
> .


Totally agree about the multiple surround outputs which was part of my suggestions earlier.

Solo Groups: Out of interest why not use the existing group function which can be to just solo? It's also possible to assign multiple groups to a channel.


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## jcrosby (Nov 7, 2017)

My bad. I meant a 2nd marker view... I use the the secondary ruler religiously.


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## mc_deli (Nov 7, 2017)

I want "Hide section between locators" like hide columns in Excel. We can hide tracks (rows) but I can't work out how to hide e.g. 32 bars... without using save as/alternatives...


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## Christof (Nov 7, 2017)

Vik said:


> Please enlighten me... out of curiosity, why is that better than having this:


I know the marker set option, but especially when I am scoring for film I use markers to define my cue in and out points, but in addition to that i would love to have a second marker lane for optional things like hit points, mood changes and these things.
I don't want to switch between sets, I want to see everything at once.


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## Jack Weaver (Nov 7, 2017)

Dom said:


> Totally agree about the multiple surround outputs which was part of my suggestions earlier.
> 
> Solo Groups: Out of interest why not use the existing group function which can be to just solo? It's also possible to assign multiple groups to a channel.




*Solo Groups* - So often in larger orchestral scores I find myself needing to solo not only groups of like instruments which are already grouped or bussed to a similar output (i.e., VC group into an ouput bus) but* individual members of other groups along with a main instrument group.* So my soloing needs go beyond members of a single group.

For example, today I'm doing something where I need to balance some accents that are in VC, timpani and DB against an ostinato in Vla and WW.

Here's how I'd like to solve that:
- I manually set up my first solo group with the VC, timapani and DB.
- Then take a snapshot memory of that solo group.
- Likewise I'd set up my ostinato group of Vla & WW
- Then once again take a snapshot memory of the solo group.

So anytime I wish to recall those groups it takes a 1/2 second to click on a button in the Solo Snapshot Memory Window (which of course is recallable with a keystroke). That way I can quickly make artistic balance decisions with my emotional recall still intact.

Much preferable spending 10 or 20 seconds soloing what I want to hear and trying to figure which way I'd really like it to be in the mix

Problem solved. No fuss. No muss.

.

PS -
Back in the early 90's and late 80's there were non-automated mixing consoles (notably DDA, Amek and others) that had a manual feature that allowed the user to create Mute Groups with preset buttons. That was very useful on non-automated boards.

If the nice people at Logic decide to create *Solo Group Snapshots* they might as well go the extra distance to similarly create *Mute Group Snapshots*.

Chances are that a lot more people would begin to find it amenable to mixing in Logic than Pro Tools.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 7, 2017)

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but I'd like the ability to "pinch zoom" vertically with the trackpad. It's entirely possible I'm a total ding-head and missed a setting for this.


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## Ale8ory (Nov 7, 2017)

Vik said:


> And you're of course not thinking of this window, which is quantising what is displayed, but not played:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a way to step input a tuplet in the score editor. I would like to see integrated in the quantize options of the piano roll for example, a way to select a group of notes and quantize them to any tuplet. It's something that I have to do in my work pretty often though I may be in the minority. And yes, the step input is the way I usually do it.


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## Vik (Nov 7, 2017)

"That's a way to step input a tuplet in the score editor"
Not only that, actually. 

I haven't checked if my suggested solution works (it should work), but if one selects the notes one wants to edit in the piano roll, and press N to open the notation window, piano rolls uers can use the score editor merely as a set of extra functions for the piano roll editor, and close it again after the edits have been performed. But again, it would be better if these functions were not only dedicated functions (full n-tuplet quantising), but also appear in all relevant editors. 

Please keep posting more suggestions, guys - it seems that there's room for expanding this poll or creating a 'part two'.


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## jcrosby (Nov 8, 2017)

Christof said:


> I know the marker set option, but especially when I am scoring for film I use markers to define my cue in and out points, but in addition to that i would love to have a second marker lane for optional things like hit points, mood changes and these things.
> I don't want to switch between sets, I want to see everything at once.


Same as my point. Scoring a film or TV show generally requires a combination or music-based markers, (grid, signature etc...), and markers that define important SMPTE events or cue related notes... 

Having two (or more) marker views allows for the potential for the second track to double as a place for non-musical events, and/or to double as a notepad for notes from the director, music dept, etc...


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## samphony (Nov 8, 2017)

Yes to everything that is mentioned above:

- multiple visible marker tracks or the ability to unfold existing marker sets to see and navigate them in parallel

- live track search and visibility agents
- surround output and stemming Update to be on par with other DAWs
- pin tracks to top
Etc


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## Saxer (Nov 8, 2017)

Christof said:


> I know the marker set option, but especially when I am scoring for film I use markers to define my cue in and out points, but in addition to that i would love to have a second marker lane for optional things like hit points, mood changes and these things.
> I don't want to switch between sets, I want to see everything at once.


It's a workaround but works well for me: If I want additional markers I just load an empty (non-audio) track and put in some empty regions at the needed position and name/color them like markers. Then I fix the SMPTE position so it stays even when changing tempo. It isn't fixed to the timeline when scrolling down but it's easy to drag it down or copy it where I need it.


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## Vik (Nov 8, 2017)

I just added "Multiple marker sets visible at the same time" to the poll. So - now the poll has 100 items on the list, which I think is the maximum. What would be the best solution: to start a new poll for the remaining wishes (I'm sure there will be many more coming up) or increase the maximum number of poll options (if possible, admin?) and add more suggestions to this poll?


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## samphony (Nov 8, 2017)

Saxer said:


> It's a workaround but works well for me: If I want additional markers I just load an empty (non-audio) track and put in some empty regions at the needed position and name/color them like markers. Then I fix the SMPTE position so it stays even when changing tempo. It isn't fixed to the timeline when scrolling down but it's easy to drag it down or copy it where I need it.



The downside to this is:

If you scroll vertically the workaround marker track will scroll out of sight. 

That’s where an option to pin your workaround marker track below the global tracks would come into play. 

Of course showing and hiding certain tracks is another way to circumvent scrolling. But at logics current state too much clicking around is involved to achieve that. 

I use groups to show hide certain groups of tracks and or track types. But it is a manual process and cannot be imported into existing projects. 

Back to the topic regarding marker tracks.
So if it’s either track pinning, multiple marker tracks or an updated way to manage track types and groups on a visual level they are all connected.


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## Saxer (Nov 8, 2017)

samphony said:


> The downside to this is:
> 
> If you scroll vertically the workaround marker track will scroll out of sight.
> 
> ...


Yepp... as I said: it's a workaround.


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## Christof (Nov 8, 2017)

Saxer said:


> It's a workaround but works well for me: If I want additional markers I just load an empty (non-audio) track and put in some empty regions at the needed position and name/color them like markers. Then I fix the SMPTE position so it stays even when changing tempo. It isn't fixed to the timeline when scrolling down but it's easy to drag it down or copy it where I need it.


I do exactly the same, but in a project with more than 100 tracks it gets lost when you scroll around, but as far as I know it's the only workaround so far.
I also tried the Arrange lane, but this is tied to beats and bars, not frames.


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## Vik (Nov 8, 2017)

Christof said:


> I do exactly the same, but in a project with more than 100 tracks it gets lost when you scroll around


That's why I voted for the new suggestion about being able to pin tracks to the top of the track list. That function can be used for several purposes.


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## jcrosby (Nov 8, 2017)

Vik said:


> I just added "Multiple marker sets visible at the same time" to the poll. So - now the poll has 100 items on the list, which I think is the maximum. What would be the best solution: to start a new poll for the remaining wishes (I'm sure there will be many more coming up) or increase the maximum number of poll options (if possible, admin?) and add more suggestions to this poll?


 
I see a number of requests that could probably be consolidated... Maybe some of the overlapping ones that are similar could be joined with an "or"... 

Here's are a few I spotted that could be consolidated or presented as - _this feature or this feature.


*Expression maps - like Cubase and others (but based on Articulation IDs)*

*Something akin to VST Expressions*

*Full, direct Articulation ID control to/from Logic and AudioUnits*

*MIDI: Fast and super easy ways to change articulations score and other editors
*_
Maybe these can be paired down a bit?


*General score/MIDI/composing improvements *

*Focus on features which are useful for making better compositions, not just better mixes*

Perhaps only one of these is needed? ("Focus on features"... seems to cover the overall idea...)



*Freeze (and/or the track on/off button) should optionally also load/unload Kontakt samples*

*Unload bypassed *instruments* (not only samples) from RAM (added nov6)*

Perhaps only one of these will do (I initially just meant samples/RAM and must have glanced past the first one when I posted mine on the 6th… That said unloading the disabled instrument from memory would be cool since a lot of empty Kontakts = a lot of wasted memory… Could be an "or" entry...)



*Multiple tabs in Tracks Area for use as a notepad for ideas/workspace etc (w/separate timeline?)*

*Scratch Pad -like Studio One (added Oct14)*

Perhaps these can be rolled into one request? (Have a comment about this I’ll be posting, along with other thoughts about some of these great requests…)



*Built in tube emulation*

*Built in tape emulation*

These could probably be one request...


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## jcrosby (Nov 8, 2017)

Sorry to chuck a few more in the mix :-O

*Audio browser tab with folder bookmarking feature for non-appleloop audio formats. *Apple put Appleloops to bed by removing the Appleloop creator from Logic’s tools… Considering wav is the most common file format used, it’s high time Logic had a loop browser that isn’t beholden to an antiquated format virtually no one even develops for anymore. 

The browser should allow folder bookmarking, and automatically sync non-AL formats like rex2 and wav when previewing files in the browser. (A la Live, Studio One, and various other DAWs with intelligent preview.)

*Plugins whose name or category have been edited in Plugin Manager show up in the Aduio Unit Drawer, **not** underneath/in with Logic's plugins. *I want to love plugin manager. But them showing up under Logic's plugins drives me nuts. (Assuming you make your own categories, which I'd prefer to.) If you use Apple's entires it makes finding Logic's plugins cumbersome.

I virtually never see it utilized in tutorials, be it MPV, Gr3 or YT... Plugin manager would be probably be utilized a lot more heavily if user entries remained in the _Audio Units, _(3rd party AU) drawer, where we're all used to looking...

AUganizer had the best solution, unfortunately it was too difficult too maintain and didn't always translate to other DAWS... (Logic being the only one I used it for anyway as VST can be categorized by folder... Ideally I'd use plugin manager if it didn't make finding Logic devices so cumbersome or claustrophobic...)

*Additional column for organizing plugins in plugin manager*. So plugins can be categorized by _type_ while retaining developer name, categories definable by user.
E.G. _Dynamics, Analog --> UAD --> SSL G-Buss
Dynamics, Digital --> FabFilter --> Pro-C2
Dynamics, multiband --> iZotope --> Ozone 7 Multiband Dynamics
_
*Text-wrap/auto-resize longer track names instead of showing an incomplete name with “…" In the title. *Why not allow for text to wrap-around to a second line if needed? Markers do this, track names should too...

*Favorites Entry for 3rd party plugins and instruments nested under Logic’s plugin column*. This is makes more sense to me... A shortlist of favorite plugins and instruments nested under or above Logic's devices, and custom plugin manager entries for all devices in the Audio Unit Drawer.

*Import rex2 as a single, consolidated audio file. *I still use and love the rex2 format. Logic’s outdated handling of them needs an overhaul...

*Support for the last two operating systems for the life-cycle of the version number*.
For those of us working on large, life-sustaining projects like films or TV shows all you accomplish is: Kicking us out of the current version number _club_, sew user discontent, and encourage some users to pack it up, switch DAWs, and bail on Apple.

Logic 9 supported 10.6.4 for the entire LIFE-CYCLE of Logic 9. I'm sick of Apple attempting to force upgrade my OS as a prerequisite for me to continue using Logic.

Considering we're a pretty spec-saavy crowd you're not fooling us to rush out and buy a machine that you've jacked the price up on, while keeping the specs virtually the same for 4 years... We see it. We talk about it. And all it accomplishes is creating discontent for Apple's brand.

Throw us a bone and show us you appreciate us sticking with Apple instead of encouraging me to jump ship and move DAWs. No-one appreciates being force-updated and I for one only put up with so much nonsense before I vote with my wallet and my hardware...

If Apple continues this scorched earth approach I'll move on if it means stability on my own terms. I've been anticipating this move since you started dropping Os's in Logic 10.0.7.
Your move Apple.


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## samphony (Nov 8, 2017)

If I’m not mistaken the force to upgrade to a newer OS (10.11+10.12) is related to audio engine improvements and AU v3.


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## Vik (Nov 9, 2017)

jcrosby said:


> Here's are a few I spotted that could be consolidated or presented as - _this feature or this feature.
> 
> 
> *Expression maps - like Cubase and others (but based on Articulation IDs)*
> ...


Hi jcrosby, we can't remove or merge existing poll options. I'll PM the admin and ask if they can expand the max number of poll options anyway.

And, regarding the above suggestion:
Expression Maps and VST Expression serve different purposes, and IMO they don't qualify for an either/or kind of question. "Full, direct Articulation ID control to/from Logic and AudioUnits" is mainly (I guess) about being able to send Articulation ID numbers from each of Logic's MIDI notes into AudioUnits (if/when that will become possible), while "Fast and super easy ways to change articulations score and other editors" mainly is about a) articulation control ideally should be possible in all editors, and b) that that process itself should be very fast/easy to perform.So I don't see these neither as competing suggestions or as an either/or situation. 

Regarding "Freeze (and/or the track on/off button) should optionally also load/unload Kontakt samples" and "Unload bypassed *instruments* (not only samples) from RAM (added nov6)":

The first one is about sample memory, the other one is about instrument memory. The first one is crucial in terms of being able to run large libraries without a very large amount of RAM, the other one is - I guess - about avoiding that empty templates or songs with many template tracks (which are not in use) are making the project sizes a lot larger than necessary, because the instruments aren't actually unloaded and reloaded in the background, but just bypassed in a way which means that they are still making the projects large. 

So IMO it's generally a good idea to have more detailed suggestions - even if this would lead to more polls or longer polls. But thanks for still contributing with new suggestions!


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## jcrosby (Nov 9, 2017)

Ah ok. I don't use Cubase so my understanding of expression maps is more simplistic than I realized... That makes a lot more sense. Sorry about that. 

And yeah, see how both unload scenarios deserve their own attention. I've used disable instruments in templates but it's not really an ideal situation. Things you load and let CC's handle most of the work, i.e. orchestra, are great in VEP. Instruments you need to be distinct every time, (Gravity, SampleLogic, or sound design), are a lot easier to work with in Logic. But when the eat up memory it's not much of an option.

Thanks for clarifying... And thanks again for starting this thread!


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## jcrosby (Nov 9, 2017)

samphony said:


> If I’m not mistaken the force to upgrade to a newer OS (10.11+10.12) is related to audio engine improvements and AU v3.



Right, however 10 initially supported 10.8. So I've gone through 3 OS's in the past 2-2 1/2 years with Logic X, something I've never previously had to deal with in Logic. I hung on 10.6 the entire time I was in Logic 9, and despite SL being ancient by the end, it ran rock solid, quicker, and leaner than 10.7 and 10.8 did for friends with the same computers. (Mind you Apple also didn't start rolling out annual OS's until around this time.) I was a happy mac-fanboy with a stable musical eco-system... Now I'm just anticipating a day where Apple pushes me away from Logic by making it no more inconvenient having to migrate to a new DAW than it is dealing with annually changing OS's.

As for the claim of engine improvements I can't say I've noticed any. My plugin count's the same now as it was on 10.1.x and below and I still experience core overload. (There's the 64 bit mix engine, but there's no evidence that it has any audible impact. It's an evenly divided line like mac vs PC... Technically the math is better but the evidence still seems to point to it being out of the audible range. As far as I understand some DACs can't even reproduce the errors 64 bit summing claims to improve. ((I'm no expert! I'm an expert skeptic however  )

AU3 so far is a phantom AFAIC. There's nothing available as AU3 in the DAW world as far as I know. Which causes me to put on my tinfoil hat and suspect it has every bit to do with what really motivates Apple... iPhone sales. Check out the table below and tell me those tens of billions in extra quarterly revenue wouldn't motivate you to manipulate consumers...







https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/02/earnings-4q-2017/

We'll see what the scoop really is if they drop 10.11 support in the next major update. If the reasons Apple cites are valid there's no rationale behind dropping 10.11...

(FYI please don't take my reply as snarky. I obviously have no idea what decisions are made at Apple HQ... I just try and maintain a healthy dose of skepticism with Apple. they've kind or wrecked my opinion of them by forcing stressful upgrades just to continue to use Logic... And I see a table like that and have to wonder what really drives them... Ever since iOS-ifying OSX wiht Yosemite I've had a skeptical view about Apple's long term vision for Logic...)
_
Politics _rant over. Sorry for derailing the tread!


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## Vik (Nov 9, 2017)

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they have worked on an iOs based version of Logic for a long time and also will release iOs based computers. Or - at some point - stop making computers as we know them now, but instead base their whole product range on variations of iOs.
"AU3 so far is a phantom AFAIC"
I don't know what's in the AU3 specs, but someone wrote earlier that Logic already supports the AU format. That means that the missing element is that manufacturers start producing AU3 based plugins.
Then again - if the AU3 format doesn't support sending of Articulation-ID info to AU3 plugins, the 'winner' of this poll, "Expression maps - like Cubase and others (but based on Articulation IDs)", and also "Full, direct Articulation ID control to/from Logic and AudioUnits" would have problems, I guess. Otherwise, how could Logic send Articulation-ID code from itself to a 3rd part AudioUnit?


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## samphony (Nov 10, 2017)

VSL is working on the AU v3 Version for VEP plugin.


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## Vik (Nov 10, 2017)

Thanks, interesting. What exactly will the AU3 format offer which is useful for us/VSL?


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## samphony (Nov 10, 2017)

AU v3 allows more midi ports per instance and is lifting the 16 midi channel limitation the AU v1 and v2 had (similar to vst3). 

Another thing v3 allows us to host plugins in its own process. Meaning if implemented it would allow to crash the plugin (ie Kontakt 5) without crashing the host (Logic). 

Of course developers would have to update their plugins and implement these features.


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## Vik (Nov 11, 2017)

samphony said:


> Another thing v3 allows us to host plugins in its own process. Meaning if implemented it would allow to crash the plugin (ie Kontakt 5) without crashing the host (Logic).


That's good, I've had a few Logic crashes caused by Kontakt. But will one be able to use Logic's Articulation IDs to select new articulations in Kontakt libraries with the new AU version?


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## samphony (Nov 11, 2017)

Vik said:


> That's good, I've had a few Logic crashes caused by Kontakt. But will one be able to use Logic's Articulation IDs to select new articulations in Kontakt libraries with the new AU version?


That I don’t know but I’m sure we’ll find a way to figure that out.

(Scripter???)


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## Sami (Nov 30, 2017)

Apple needs to give @Peter Schwartz a million dollars for ArtzID and integrate the functionality with Kontakt. I am dreaming of the day we can just use articulation id natively and without scripters in kontakt and have logic read back the articulation name from the library and assign it to an articulation id... the dream


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## Peter Schwartz (Dec 5, 2017)

That's awfully nice of you to say. Thanks Sami!


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## PaulBrimstone (Dec 5, 2017)

Sami said:


> Apple needs to give @Peter Schwartz a million dollars for ArtzID and integrate the functionality with Kontakt. I am dreaming of the day we can just use articulation id natively and without scripters in kontakt and have logic read back the articulation name from the library and assign it to an articulation id... the dream


I would suggest _several_ million dollars...


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## Vik (Jan 25, 2018)

The suggestion that got the most votes was "Expression maps - like Cubase and others (but based on Articulation IDs)". Apple has just released an expression map equivalent. Very good news!


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## ReelToLogic (Oct 1, 2018)

I've never understood why Logic does not show flats in the Piano Roll view. I realize it was an old MIDI convention, but that shouldn't be a limit to this display. I find it very annoying and It seems like it would be the simplest and easiest change to implement. PLEASE - at least make it an option!


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## gsilbers (Oct 1, 2018)

samphony said:


> AU v3 allows more midi ports per instance and is lifting the 16 midi channel limitation the AU v1 and v2 had (similar to vst3).
> 
> Another thing v3 allows us to host plugins in its own process. Meaning if implemented it would allow to crash the plugin (ie Kontakt 5) without crashing the host (Logic).
> 
> Of course developers would have to update their plugins and implement these features.



yeah!


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