# LA Scoring Strings 3



## Markrs

EDIT:

This was posted by Andrew K. of AudioBro on their forum.

"That web page was a "placeholder" for when we release it and was not finalized. Sorry for any confusion. It's been taken down. We will announce its release when it's ready for download. I don't want to give an ETA just yet as it's still in Beta and... well... anything can happen.

Thank you for your patience."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay I don't know if this has already been posted or is old news, but it is new to me.

Audiobro have a page on LA Scoring Strings with details about in and demos. It looks like it is finished ("LASS 3 IS HERE") but it doesn't give prices.

EDIT: Pages have been taken down, so I have removed the links

*What's new in LASS 3*

Newly remapped and integrated into our new orchestral Engine
Now includes Legato Sordino
Greater legato range and flexibility (you can now have more exposed transitions)
Independent real-time control of Legato, Portamento, and Glissando speeds
Now has Look Ahead
All section divisis integrated on the same patch (no more need for multis)
Integrated polyphonic legato (no more need for multis)
Integrated Stage and Color (no more need for multis)
Advanced Key Switching
All-in-one master patches (no more need to load different patches per articulations)
Full NKS integration
Cubase, Logic, Performer, Reaper, and Studio One Expression Maps
Advanced RAM handling via our new engine
Advanced next-generation ART (Auto Rhythm Tools) that controls both Staccato and Spiccato simultaneously
Key Switchable Keys and Mixer Maps
Easier and improved instrument placement on Stage
Programmable Envelopes for Sustains
Integrated Modulators for Mixer FX controls


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## Markrs

LA Scoring Strings 3 reinvents our classic strings library (LASS 2.5) by seamlessly integrating it into our new orchestral engine. This provides for a whole new host of features that were not available to LASS until now. This 60-piece multi-instrument divisi library was painstakingly developed by recording 3 different divisi sections (1/4 + 1/4 + 1/2 section at a time) on a trusted scoring stage giving you unprecedented individual control of 3 divisi sections.

From the delicate tones of a divisi section playing Sustains and beautiful legatos, to the power of Staccatos and Spiccatos, and everything in between — LA Scoring Strings 3 is a library that fully captures the broad expressive range and diversity of the orchestral string family while providing you the flexibility to create smaller intimate section sounds. Pristine recordings and meticulous editing ensure every note of your music will shine.


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## Henu

I'm pretty sure that this page shouldn't had been published yet by them, so expect it to disappear rather soon.


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## Markus Kohlprath

Sounds like good news. After all LASS is a reliable workhorse and more often than not I reach for it when I just want to get the job done without too much fiddling.
Any infos on the upgrade price?


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## Henu

I logged in to see if I'd see upgrade prices but unfortunately it wasn't there among the rest. But as I mentioned, I'm pretty sure that the work is still heavily in progress.


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## Markrs

In case the page gets removed here are the details


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## Markrs




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## AndrewS

Love that it looks like it'll come with prebuilt expression maps


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## Markrs




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## Markrs




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## Baronvonheadless

So what’s going to be the difference between this and modern scoring strings?


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## Markrs




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## Markrs

Baronvonheadless said:


> So what’s going to be the difference between this and modern scoring strings?


I have added a screen grab of the table showing the differences between the two


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## Zanshin

Baronvonheadless said:


> So what’s going to be the difference between this and modern scoring strings?


LASS 3 checks way less boxes


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## Baronvonheadless

Just found that and was about to say never mind! Haha. 
I guess the sound is just a bit different? Why bother having lss 3 if u have MSS? I love MSS and I’m very glad I made the investment. 

Btw y’all, does anyone know which woodwinds audiobro use on their demos? They sound pretty awesome but I don’t see a reference anywhere.


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## novaburst

Baronvonheadless said:


> So what’s going to be the difference between this and modern scoring strings?


I you will get a different mood and tone


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## Batrawi

Markrs said:


>


S-N-I-F-FFFFF😌 aaah good old LASS
.. I can smell the wood & grit from that GUI already❤


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## Casiquire

I'M. SO. READY!!


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## Jish

Baronvonheadless said:


> Just found that and was about to say never mind! Haha.
> I guess the sound is just a bit different? Why bother having lss 3 if u have MSS? I love MSS and I’m very glad I made the investment.


It's more to do with the old notion of, 'It's _how_ something is about, not necessarily what it's about'. 

A number of people still swear by LA for it's response simply pressing down on the key's, and for it's somewhat particular sound that it's had since launch. A few other reasons as well, but those are key features. Very much so has always been a library people tend to either grow to love and grasp to, or simply dump and regret the $ spent soon after. There was _alot_ of the latter back in the day, especially.

So interesting seeing some of those checkboxes...one mic mix is all you really need if you like the sound and usability of a library, and four won't be enough if neither cut's it for you. Look forward to an actual video showcasing exactly how the new update affect's the library in action.


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## AndyP

Unfortunately no exposed demos. I found Colins demo very convincing, but they always are, no matter which library he uses.


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## Pablocrespo

I hope some work has been done to fix the tuning issues of some of the sections. 
I love Lass. It was my first strings library. 

I just can gel with MSS sound, I wish I could sell it.


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## jcrosby

Markrs said:


> Okay I don't know if this has already been posted or is old news, but it is new to me.
> 
> Audiobro have a page on LA Scoring Strings with details about in and demos. It looks like it is finished ("LASS 3 IS HERE") but it doesn't give prices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LA Scoring Strings 3 - Audiobro
> 
> 
> LA Scoring Strings 3 is our classic string library, integrating it seamlessly into our new orchestral engine with a host of new features.
> 
> 
> 
> www.audiobro.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSS vs LASS 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.audiobro.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What's new in LASS 3*
> 
> Newly remapped and integrated into our new orchestral Engine
> Now includes Legato Sordino
> Greater legato range and flexibility (you can now have more exposed transitions)
> Independent real-time control of Legato, Portamento, and Glissando speeds
> Now has Look Ahead
> All section divisis integrated on the same patch (no more need for multis)
> Integrated polyphonic legato (no more need for multis)
> Integrated Stage and Color (no more need for multis)
> Advanced Key Switching
> All-in-one master patches (no more need to load different patches per articulations)
> Full NKS integration
> Cubase, Logic, Performer, Reaper, and Studio One Expression Maps
> Advanced RAM handling via our new engine
> Advanced next-generation ART (Auto Rhythm Tools) that controls both Staccato and Spiccato simultaneously
> Key Switchable Keys and Mixer Maps
> Easier and improved instrument placement on Stage
> Programmable Envelopes for Sustains
> Integrated Modulators for Mixer FX controls


SHUT THE FRONT DOOR !!!


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## chapbot

Wow, excellent find! Thanks!


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## Casiquire

Baronvonheadless said:


> Just found that and was about to say never mind! Haha.
> I guess the sound is just a bit different? Why bother having lss 3 if u have MSS? I love MSS and I’m very glad I made the investment.
> 
> Btw y’all, does anyone know which woodwinds audiobro use on their demos? They sound pretty awesome but I don’t see a reference anywhere.


For my sake, LASS still adds a level of detail and vibrato, plus the smaller divisi sections are NOTICEABLY smaller. But that's really about it. MSS is basically the complete package


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## jcrosby

AndyP said:


> Unfortunately no exposed demos. I found Colins demo very convincing, but they always are, no matter which library he uses.


They're not demos per se, but the Stage and Color video has plenty of examples of what it sounds like fully exposed...

This is also currently its one advantage (at least AFAIK). I don't own MSS, but from what I can gather MSS doesn't have the stage and color impulses - yet - but looks to be coming to MSS in the future.

Anyway through the videos below for some examples of what it sounds like exposed... You can see that you essentially get a whole bunch of different colors which is what always made LASS unique & versatile right OOTB compared to most other libraries... So its _sound_ is actually not a single color, but a range of colors.

Also don't forget that this is the old workflow... Everything should now be handled by the new MSS engine, no need to use multis, 'transmit' the color settings to other patches, etc.

6:30 onward - Stage & Color





Introduction To Stage & Color







www.audiobro.com





:45 onward - A.R.T (Ens & First Chair Cello Spiccatos)





Spiccato Cellos and the A.R.T. Script Explained







www.audiobro.com





5:57 onward - Legato






LASS 2.0 Legato Instruments Overview







www.audiobro.com





1:05 onward - Sordinos





100% Sordino Music Example







www.audiobro.com


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## jcrosby

Also, knock on wood LADD 2 is in the works, *fingers crossed* 🤞


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## Batrawi

Pablocrespo said:


> I hope some work has been done to fix the tuning issues of some of the sections.


That has always been my #1 wish as well, but I'm afraid they likely haven't done anything about it otherwise I'm sure it would have been proudly mentioned in the new features list...


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## dts_marin

LA Strings? Pfff that's so 00's. Where are the PLA Scoring Strings? The cool kids now have 3D printers. We want to print our libraries! /s


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## cedricm

Newbie question: why are there tons of testimonials on LASS and none on MSS, on Audiobro's website? Shouldn't there be MSS testimonials by now?


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## muziksculp

Holy Camoli What a nice surprise. FINALY ! 

Can't wait to upgrade to LASS 3 from 2.5


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## muziksculp

No Pricing yet ?


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## Casiquire

i was hoping for a free upgrade to existing users of LASS+LS, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I still think it'll be more than worth it. Their upgrade paths have been generous in the past so i don't think we'll be too upset. It's interesting that they're bundling the standard and sordino libraries together though. They have pretty consistently kept the two separate. 

For anybody who owns LASS but not the Legato Sordino expansion...grab this upgrade. The LASS sordinos are incredibly gorgeous


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## clisma

Casiquire said:


> i was hoping for a free upgrade to existing users of LASS+LS, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I still think it'll be more than worth it. Their upgrade paths have been generous in the past so i don't think we'll be too upset. It's interesting that they're bundling the standard and sordino libraries together though. They have pretty consistently kept the two separate.
> 
> For anybody who owns LASS but not the Legato Sordino expansion...grab this upgrade. The LASS sordinos are incredibly gorgeous


I plan to. I have been waiting for this so long that I've stopped using LASS.


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## Tralen

Markrs said:


>


I found really interesting (and useful) the concept of having the first 2 divisi sections being half of the 3rd one, but that seems to falter with the Cellos: 3-3-4?

I hope that is a typo. How are the Cellos divided in the current LASS?


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## CT

Interesting. On paper MSS is more my speed but doesn't satisfy me sonically as much as LASS handled properly does. This could be worthwhile for me.


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## Wunderhorn

I do hope that for users of LASS 2.5 + LS _*AND*_ MSS the upgrade price would be small. As I mostly use MSS anyway I would be thinking twice or trice before spending more money on LASS despite the update looking gorgeous beyond doubt.


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## chapbot

Baronvonheadless said:


> So what’s going to be the difference between this and modern scoring strings?


MSS sucks and LASS doesn't?

I'm sorry I just had to...
I'll crawl back into my hole now 😂


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## Casiquire

Wunderhorn said:


> I do hope that for users of LASS 2.5 + LS _*AND*_ MSS the upgrade price would be small. As I mostly use MSS anyway I would be thinking twice or trice before spending more money on LASS despite the update looking gorgeous beyond doubt.


It's the combination that interests me, in the same interface and with the same delay. MSS can use a bit more vibrato, so having a heavy vibrato library i can just duplicate the same midi into, and having everything just work...it's a big sell.


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## Casiquire

chapbot said:


> MSS sucks and LASS doesn't?
> 
> I'm sorry I just had to...
> I'll crawl back into my hole now 😂


You've found a way to anger EVERYONE lmao congratulations


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## chapbot

Casiquire said:


> You've found a way to anger EVERYONE lmao congratulations


No kidding I was thinking of you when I wrote it 😂 Love ya ♥️


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## Zedcars

chapbot said:


> MSS sucks and LASS doesn't?
> 
> I'm sorry I just had to...
> I'll crawl back into my hole now 😂


I mean, both suck and neither suck depending on your POV.

I wonder if there will be a discount for MSS customers?


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## muziksculp

Sorry, I don't get it. Why is LASS 3 not up on their website ?


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## jonnybutter

Zanshin said:


> LASS 3 checks way less boxes


They are very different libraries. It’s not really about checking boxes. As others have said, sometimes you just want to get some jobs done without jerking around, and you reach for LASS, or I do anyway. I can’t wait for this update, and I have MSS too.


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## Zanshin

jonnybutter said:


> They are very different libraries. It’s not really about checking boxes. As others have said, sometimes you just want to get some jobs done without jerking around, and you reach for LASS, or I do anyway. I can’t wait for this update, and I have MSS too.


Maybe you missed the *wink* in my post.


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## jonnybutter

Zanshin said:


> Maybe you missed the *wink* in my post.


YES I DID. Sorry. I am really on a roll lately at being a doofus. I hope it’s a phase…


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## Wunderhorn

Casiquire said:


> It's the combination that interests me, in the same interface and with the same delay. MSS can use a bit more vibrato, so having a heavy vibrato library i can just duplicate the same midi into, and having everything just work...it's a big sell.


Good point. Definitely a welcome convenience. Though with all the BF deals one must prioritize well.


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## muziksculp

AudioBro need to add a new LASS 3 section to their forum sections.


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## Baronvonheadless

Baronvonheadless said:


> Just found that and was about to say never mind! Haha.
> I guess the sound is just a bit different? Why bother having lss 3 if u have MSS? I love MSS and I’m very glad I made the investment.
> 
> Btw y’all, does anyone know which woodwinds audiobro use on their demos? They sound pretty awesome but I don’t see a reference anywhere.





chapbot said:


> MSS sucks and LASS doesn't?
> 
> I'm sorry I just had to...
> I'll crawl back into my hole now 😂


I mean, for some reason in MSS there is a solo violin and solo cello, which sound good. But the Solo Viola is from LASS and I think THAT sucks and never use it. So..


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## Henrik B. Jensen

AndyP said:


> Unfortunately no exposed demos. I found Colins demo very convincing, but they always are, no matter which library he uses.


The demos on the LASS 3 page are just the LASS 2.5 demos.

Audiobro probably hasn’t gotten people to write demos for LASS 3 yet.


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## Casiquire

Baronvonheadless said:


> I mean, for some reason in MSS there is a solo violin and solo cello, which sound good. But the Solo Viola is from LASS and I think THAT sucks and never use it. So..


Maybe it's power of suggestion but i feel like the viola performs better within MSS. i know they're the same recordings, but i don't believe they're the same programming. I think it's an odd decision though. I wish they'd record a new one at least for the sake of consistency. I don't dislike the solo viola in MSS at all though


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## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Sorry, I don't get it. Why is LASS 3 not up on their website ?


It's not ready. I don't think we were intended to see these pages at all


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## davidanthony

Casiquire said:


> i was hoping for a free upgrade to existing users of LASS+LS, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I still think it'll be more than worth it.


I definitely think they should charge something, this certainly did take them some development time. 

I'm predicting a tiered upgrade starting in the $50-$75 range for Full 2.5 + LS 2.5 owners (which I would happily pay). Anything higher and you're asking customers for 20%+ of the current 2.5 sale price for what's effectively a recycle of the old samples with a ported version of the MSS engine, which would make me think twice!



Casiquire said:


> Their upgrade paths have been generous in the past so i don't think we'll be too upset. It's interesting that they're bundling the standard and sordino libraries together though. They have pretty consistently kept the two separate.


Probably a bit of a headache to maintain separate versions of the new engine now that everything has been brought into one place.


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## chapbot

Casiquire said:


> It's not ready. I don't think we were intended to see these pages at all


I wonder just how ready it is? You would think if they've gone to the trouble of creating those web pages surely it must be close.


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## Casiquire

chapbot said:


> I wonder just how ready it is? You would think if they've gone to the trouble of creating those web pages surely it must be close.


I agree, i assume they're very close, but that we're seeing the site prematurely


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## clisma

Tralen said:


> I found really interesting (and useful) the concept of having the first 2 divisi sections being half of the 3rd one, but that seems to falter with the Cellos: 3-3-4?
> 
> I hope that is a typo. How are the Cellos divided in the current LASS?


Generally, one tries to avoid having two strings play in unison, something tricky about the intonation I believe, don't recall (I always book at least three players); three players resolves/negates the issue. So to get to 10 Celli, the LASS division makes sense and in practice works well. Not sure if the intonation issue is less severe in the Basses, as they are split 2-2-4. Again, this is in broad terms.


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## jcrosby

muziksculp said:


> No Pricing yet ?


No, but I messaged them this afternoon and they said pricing should be announced in the next couple weeks…


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## ansthenia

MSS Look-ahead feature added to LASS...combined with better way to slow down transitions so we can hear more of the transition? OMGJFDJSLGFHDS


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## novaburst

Well I must say there certainly some strings attached to this year.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Casiquire said:


> i was hoping for a free upgrade to existing users of LASS+LS, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I still think it'll be more than worth it. Their upgrade paths have been generous in the past so i don't think we'll be too upset. It's interesting that they're bundling the standard and sordino libraries together though. They have pretty consistently kept the two separate.
> 
> For anybody who owns LASS but not the Legato Sordino expansion...grab this upgrade. The LASS sordinos are incredibly gorgeous


Did my Jedi mind thing and upgrade will be free. You all owe me a beer...

Seriously, the sordinos do sounds great. And I'm glad they'll be available in the same interface. Seriously hope the upgrade is cheap tho.


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## Nando Florestan

chapbot said:


> surely it must be close.


Nobody knows how close. And stop calling me Shirley.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Nando Florestan said:


> Nobody knows how close. And stop calling me Shirley.


Your name is Shirley and you like your new shoes...


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## Laddy

Ok, sonic profiles coming later for MSS? Cool.


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## jcrosby

Nando Florestan said:


> And stop calling me Shirley.


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## Tralen

clisma said:


> Generally, one tries to avoid having two strings play in unison, something tricky about the intonation I believe, don't recall (I always book at least three players); three players resolves/negates the issue. So to get to 10 Celli, the LASS division makes sense and in practice works well. Not sure if the intonation issue is less severe in the Basses, as they are split 2-2-4. Again, this is in broad terms.


I was thinking that the other sections divide much better than the Cello, with the third part being equal to the first two combined. That is why I thought it was inconsistent.

For instance, you can use just Violin 1A and Violin 1B, and have a chamber sized section with divisi. Then, if you want, you can have Violin 1A and Violin 1B in unison, and add Violin 1C to have a full sized divisi.

It works the same for Violas and Basses, but not the Cellos, they would divide 6-4, which is workable, but not neat like the rest.


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## AndyP

jcrosby said:


> They're not demos per se, but the Stage and Color video has plenty of examples of what it sounds like fully exposed...
> 
> This is also currently its one advantage (at least AFAIK). I don't own MSS, but from what I can gather MSS doesn't have the stage and color impulses - yet - but looks to be coming to MSS in the future.
> 
> Anyway through the videos below for some examples of what it sounds like exposed... You can see that you essentially get a whole bunch of different colors which is what always made LASS unique & versatile right OOTB compared to most other libraries... So its _sound_ is actually not a single color, but a range of colors.
> 
> Also don't forget that this is the old workflow... Everything should now be handled by the new MSS engine, no need to use multis, 'transmit' the color settings to other patches, etc.
> 
> 6:30 onward - Stage & Color
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Introduction To Stage & Color
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.audiobro.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :45 onward - A.R.T (Ens & First Chair Cello Spiccatos)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spiccato Cellos and the A.R.T. Script Explained
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.audiobro.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5:57 onward - Legato
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LASS 2.0 Legato Instruments Overview
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.audiobro.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1:05 onward - Sordinos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 100% Sordino Music Example
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.audiobro.com


Was LASS 3 completely re-recorded, or is it the old samples in the new engine?


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## muziksculp

AndyP said:


> Was LASS 3 completely re-recorded, or is it the old samples in the new engine?


Old samples in new engine.


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## jneebz

Casiquire said:


> It's not ready.


True.



Casiquire said:


> I don't think we were intended to see these pages at all


Not so sure


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## Shad0wLandsUK

jcrosby said:


>



Nothing like some ol' classic Leslie Neilson in Airplane!... to brighten my day!

Might have to go and watch that now 🤔


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## Shad0wLandsUK

From the looks of things, another added feature in LASS 3 are the Sonic Profiles, which are coming to MSS. Perhaps that is what is adding to the richness of the sound some are referring to...


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## Casiquire

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> From the looks of things, another added feature in LASS 3 are the Sonic Profiles, which are coming to MSS. Perhaps that is what is adding to the richness of the sound some are referring to...


My understanding is that the Sonic profiles are the same stage and colors that we already have in LASS, and i don't believe we'll be getting all the same ones for MSS. So far I'm not crazy about any of the presets for MSS. I love the raw sound of it and resaved all the instruments with all the processing stripped. If they come out with some good new profiles, I'll try them out


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## clisma

Tralen said:


> I was thinking that the other sections divide much better than the Cello, with the third part being equal to the first two combined. That is why I thought it was inconsistent.
> 
> For instance, you can use just Violin 1A and Violin 1B, and have a chamber sized section with divisi. Then, if you want, you can have Violin 1A and Violin 1B in unison, and add Violin 1C to have a full sized divisi.
> 
> It works the same for Violas and Basses, but not the Cellos, they would divide 6-4, which is workable, but not neat like the rest.


In practice, at least in my opinion, it doesn't make much difference. At times I am rather annoyed by the 'imbalance' of the other sections: when I'm trying to write triadic structures using the divisi and can hear the thickening the 8 Violins provide over the A4 and B4. Would have preferred C to be split in two as well at that point (cost prohibitive, I'm sure).

From a versatility point of view I think what you say makes sense. It certainly makes the libraries size modular. But when I'm using the Celli for triadic writing, it works a bit better. Not that I have been using LASS much lately at all, so looking forward to the upgrade.


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## constaneum

Casiquire said:


> My understanding is that the Sonic profiles are the same stage and colors that we already have in LASS, and i don't believe we'll be getting all the same ones for MSS. So far I'm not crazy about any of the presets for MSS. I love the raw sound of it and resaved all the instruments with all the processing stripped. If they come out with some good new profiles, I'll try them out


May come out with new profiles. We'll only know by then. Can't wait too. I've stopped using LASS for a long while


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## Casiquire

constaneum said:


> May come out with new profiles. We'll only know by then. Can't wait too. I've stopped using LASS for a long while


How come?

I don't use LASS as much anymore either because once I used the Pixelpoet trick I couldn't go back to the default library, and it started to become a hassle setting it up all the time and then dealing with inconsistent delays. But in the new interface, we'll have both the long legato AND a consistent delay just like MSS. I think it will give LASS new life


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## Nando Florestan

People have said samples don't age, so their beauty is the same forever. In the case of LASS, the ugliness of the violin samples is there forever. Acid, noisy, raw, unprofessional -- there's a reason almost nobody uses it anymore. I am about to remove LASS from my template entirely. The "colors" are a feature that provides options, but doesn't provide a fix. In this regard, I think the existing LASS demos are completely misleading -- there's no way a common user can mix LASS the way they've hidden all the flaws in the demos.

I wanted to love the sound of MSS. Had I been impressed, I think I would be free from GAS for ~5 years. Of course the sound is much better than the previous ensembles from AudioBro, especially LASS. And I love the features -- but the demos... Where do I start. The demos are full of brass and even choir. Choir to demo a string library!!! What are they thinking!? Do you suppose they don't know that a choir hides the sound of the strings!? And then there are a few, very few, string-only demos, none of which show me what I wanted to hear: lyrical poetic romantic legato string music. You know, there was never anything wrong with including a bit of Tchaikovsky together with all these contemporary composers who haven't gone through the test of time. Anyway, as far as I can hear, the word that defines the sound of MSS is this: "common". Where LASS sounded barbaric, MSS sounds boring. By the way, nothing is more empty of meaning in the world of music than the word "modern".

I am unable to convince myself to spend $650 on MSS, although I wish this wasn't so. As for LASS, well... too tired of those samples already... I wish I could sell my license.


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## biomuse

Casiquire said:


> How come?
> 
> I don't use LASS as much anymore either because once I used the Pixelpoet trick I couldn't go back to the default library, and it started to become a hassle setting it up all the time and then dealing with inconsistent delays. But in the new interface, we'll have both the long legato AND a consistent delay just like MSS. I think it will give LASS new life


LOL I went through every patch in LASS 2.5, performed PixelPoet adjustments, and resaved the patches with a _PP suffix so they're pret-a-porter.

Only now do I see that my time was wasted.


----------



## Casiquire

biomuse said:


> LOL I went through every patch in LASS 2.5, performed PixelPoet adjustments, and resaved the patches with a _PP suffix so they're pret-a-porter.
> 
> Only now do I see that my time was wasted.


Not if you got use out of it! I set up a template where the trick was implemented but i quickly realized that it didn't quite fit my sound and workflow and i haven't come back to that idea since then


----------



## biomuse

Nando Florestan said:


> People have said samples don't age, so their beauty is the same forever. In the case of LASS, the ugliness of the violin samples is there forever. Acid, noisy, raw, unprofessional -- there's a reason almost nobody uses it anymore. I am about to remove LASS from my template entirely. The "colors" are a feature the provides options, but doesn't provide a fix. In this regard, I think the existing LASS demos are completely misleading -- there's no way a common user can mix LASS the way they've hidden all the flaws in the demos.
> 
> I wanted to love the sound of MSS. Had I been impressed, I think I would be free from GAS for ~5 years. Of course the sound is much better than the previous ensembles from AudioBro, especially LASS. And I love the features -- but the demos... Where do I start. The demos are full of brass and even choir. Choir to demo a string library!!! What are they thinking!? Do you suppose they don't know that a choir hides the sound of the strings!? And then there are a few, very few, string-only demos, none of which show me what I wanted to hear: lyrical poetic romantic legato string music. You know, there was never anything wrong with including a bit of Tchaikovsky together with all these contemporary composers who haven't gone through the test of time. Anyway, as far as I can hear, the word that defines the sound of MSS is this: "common". Where LASS sounded barbaric, MSS sounds boring. By the way, nothing is more empty of meaning in the world of music than the word "modern".
> 
> I am unable to convince myself to spend $650 on MSS, although I wish this wasn't so. As for LASS, well... too tired of those samples already... I wish I could sell my license.











oeksound plug-ins: soothe2


Soothe2 is a dynamic resonance suppressor. It identifies problematic resonances on the fly and applies matching reduction automatically.




oeksound.com





Or









Learn Formant Tool skills in this tutorial video from online course Melodyne 101 - Melodyne 5 Explained and Explored


In this video, you'll learn how Melodyne's Formant Tool can be used for formant correction and special effects. You'll also get some insight into the science be




ask.video





Or

Tape or low pass or just gold old bog standard equalization if you don't like the tone?

Agree with you about MSS btw, but the charisma of the LASS sound is why I'm interested in the update. No accounting for taste.


----------



## Nando Florestan

I thank you for that information, but if I am being honest, the price of soothe2 is EUR 200, with which I just bought Nashville SS.

Then I used the Match EQ feature of FabFilter Pro-Q to make the acid LASS violins sound more like Nashville, and I sort of liked the result (although I still hear certain defects), and then I kept comparing the two, and decided I would never find any use for the LASS violins again.

The cellos are much better though. The main problem is in the violins, really.

Another technique I've used a lot with LASS is to use that free Proximity plugin, that plugin is sooo good... it can add distance to any sound and you control the components of that distance separately (proximity separately from air absorption separately from gain reduction separately from stereo width etc.), so you can really fix a sound.

With the violins, nothing has ever been enough.


----------



## biomuse

Nando Florestan said:


> I thank you for that information, but if I am being honest, the price of soothe2 is EUR 200, with which I just bought Nashville SS.
> 
> Then I used the Match EQ feature of FabFilter Pro-Q to make the acid LASS violins sound more like Nashville, and I sort of liked the result (although I still hear certain defects), and then I kept comparing the two, and decided I would never find any use for the LASS violins again.
> 
> The cellos are much better though. The main problem is in the violins, really.
> 
> Another technique I've used a lot with LASS is to use that free Proximity plugin, that plugin is sooo good... it can add distance to any sound and you control the components of that distance separately (proximity separately from air absorption separately from gain reduction separately from stereo width etc.), so you can really fix a sound.
> 
> With the violins, nothing has ever been enough.


+1 on Proximity; just used that recently to help push OT Whisper bassoon into a compatible space with Cinewinds. They could sell that plug and I'd buy it.

God I just can't hear the inherent evil of those violins though.... at least not 'unfixably' bad.


----------



## whinecellar

Nando Florestan said:


> In the case of LASS, the ugliness of the violin samples is there forever. Acid, noisy, raw, unprofessional -- there's a reason almost nobody uses it anymore...


Man, horses for courses I guess, but count me in the "almost" category. After all these years, I still go back to LASS as one of the "detail" brushes in my well-stocked palette. I'm 100% convinced that the "harsh" label LASS gets is based on user error, or at the very least, not taking the time to learn it. I too thought it was harsh early on, until I watched some of @Colin O'Malley 's demos and understood how it's set up for dynamics... that mod wheel is but one crucial piece of the puzzle.

It's far from perfect of course, as is every other library out there. I do have some EQ presets I've created for it to help it blend with other libraries depending on the piece, but in the right hands, LASS is still a top-tier professional tool IMO. It certainly has helped me earn many paychecks, for which I'm grateful


----------



## Tralen

Nando Florestan said:


> I thank you for that information, but if I am being honest, the price of soothe2 is EUR 200, with which I just bought Nashville SS.
> 
> Then I used the Match EQ feature of FabFilter Pro-Q to make the acid LASS violins sound more like Nashville, and I sort of liked the result (although I still hear certain defects), and then I kept comparing the two, and decided I would never find any use for the LASS violins again.
> 
> The cellos are much better though. The main problem is in the violins, really.
> 
> Another technique I've used a lot with LASS is to use that free Proximity plugin, that plugin is sooo good... it can add distance to any sound and you control the components of that distance separately (proximity separately from air absorption separately from gain reduction separately from stereo width etc.), so you can really fix a sound.
> 
> With the violins, nothing has ever been enough.


I don't know if this would work for LASS, but something I find really good to smooth the harshness of some libraries is to introduce some phase rotation, using an allpass filter. The free Airwindows PhaseNudge works very well for this.


----------



## Casiquire

Nando Florestan said:


> I thank you for that information, but if I am being honest, the price of soothe2 is EUR 200, with which I just bought Nashville SS.
> 
> Then I used the Match EQ feature of FabFilter Pro-Q to make the acid LASS violins sound more like Nashville, and I sort of liked the result (although I still hear certain defects), and then I kept comparing the two, and decided I would never find any use for the LASS violins again.
> 
> The cellos are much better though. The main problem is in the violins, really.
> 
> Another technique I've used a lot with LASS is to use that free Proximity plugin, that plugin is sooo good... it can add distance to any sound and you control the components of that distance separately (proximity separately from air absorption separately from gain reduction separately from stereo width etc.), so you can really fix a sound.
> 
> With the violins, nothing has ever been enough.



Just use lower dynamics. I've posted this a bunch before so apologies for the repeat. This was one of my first tests with LASS way back when the library was new and i knew nothing about samples or production, so there's little or no EQ and there are some questionable reverb and midi decisions, but i still think the library performed well and i wouldn't call any part of it "acid". I don't remember for sure but i believe the mod wheel either never goes higher than 100, or does just once at the very end. Even with only using 3/4s of the dynamic range i find the performance plenty expressive and dynamic. Don't miss the last four gorgeous chords at the low end of the dynamics.






Five Variants of 'Dives and Lazarus' (Ralph Vaughan Williams)


Work-in-progress of the piece Five Variants of 'Dives and Lazarus' by Ralph Vaughan Williams. Still trying to hone in on my sound!




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## jcrosby

jneebz said:


> True.
> 
> 
> Not so sure


I emailed AB yesterday and they didn't suggest it was unintentional and said we can expect to see pricing in a couple weeks. If anything they probably published the new page as a run-up to BF to let people know that LASS 3 will be available around the same time...


----------



## chapbot

Casiquire said:


> How come?
> 
> I don't use LASS as much anymore either because once I used the Pixelpoet trick I couldn't go back to the default library, and it started to become a hassle setting it up all the time and then dealing with inconsistent delays. But in the new interface, we'll have both the long legato AND a consistent delay just like MSS. I think it will give LASS new life


It sure will give it new life! I am super excited, it could become my main library again.


----------



## Nando Florestan

whinecellar said:


> I do have some EQ presets I've created for it to help it blend


On the violins legato, if you go back and forth between E4 and G4, the transition has a noise that almost sounds like a metallic clank. Never been able to unhear it or remove it. Just one example.

Everyone that uses LASS successfully has an EQ scheme for the violins, but nobody ever shares it -- everybody treats it like the launch codes. I guess finding the EQ was so expensive timewise that it would be impossible to share!?


----------



## novaburst

Casiquire said:


> So far I'm not crazy about any of the presets for MSS. I love the raw sound of it


+1


----------



## Nando Florestan

Casiquire said:


> Just use lower dynamics.


Right. That seems great advice. A quick search turned this up, where staying below 50% is recommended.





Anybody give up on LASS?


Indeed KenK... kind of alarming to read people who think spending 3 hours to set something up once isn't worth the bother. As I think I've said a lot of times over the years, that time is massively more than repaid due to time saved when you're actually composing. When I'm in the heat of...




vi-control.net




Just the type of thing that might have been on the manual, but isn't...

I never knew any of this. It's as if the Matrix just reset. So thanks.

By the way, in your mockup I also heard the metallic clank (in the violins) I just mentioned.


----------



## Leandro Gardini

First came True Strike, and now LASS. Two of my senior and ever-present libraries on my template. Awesome!!!


----------



## Casiquire

Nando Florestan said:


> Right. That seems great advice. A quick search turned this up, where staying below 50% is recommended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody give up on LASS?
> 
> 
> Indeed KenK... kind of alarming to read people who think spending 3 hours to set something up once isn't worth the bother. As I think I've said a lot of times over the years, that time is massively more than repaid due to time saved when you're actually composing. When I'm in the heat of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never knew any of this. It's as if the Matrix just reset. So thanks.
> 
> By the way, in your mockup I also heard the metallic clank (in the violins) I just mentioned.


I'm sure of it! I'm minimalist in my sample processing in general, and even more so eight or nine years ago. A few noises here and there will usually stay in. 

The dynamics, to my ears, hit "forte" around 60-80 and hit "screaming nightmare power fortisssissississimo" over 110. On the bright side, i can layer them in with any library that doesn't go loud enough for me.


----------



## muziksculp

We also have Symphobia 1 & 2 updates to get excited about


----------



## muziksculp

Would love to hear some new demos done with the upcoming LASS 3. Super excited about this library's release.


----------



## novaburst

@muziksculp you know them all , i was thinking can you pull any Strings for me at the check out when Lass 3 is released 

Ok for real i know this news has put a smile on your face as with me too


----------



## novaburst

ok no more string jokes


----------



## Nando Florestan

novaburst said:


> ok no more string jokes


Anyone know if it's true that in LASS 3 the violas take longer to burn?


----------



## constaneum

Casiquire said:


> How come?
> 
> I don't use LASS as much anymore either because once I used the Pixelpoet trick I couldn't go back to the default library, and it started to become a hassle setting it up all the time and then dealing with inconsistent delays. But in the new interface, we'll have both the long legato AND a consistent delay just like MSS. I think it will give LASS new life


Mainly due to ARC and partially the sound.


----------



## muziksculp

constaneum said:


> Mainly due to ARC and partially the sound.


Yup. same here.


----------



## muziksculp

Isn't LASS 3 going to offer what the Pixelpoet trick does, via controls in the new LASS 3 GUI ?


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Isn't LASS 3 going to offer what the Pixelpoet trick does, via controls in the new LASS 3 GUI ?


Yes


----------



## Windbag

jcrosby said:


> I emailed AB yesterday and they didn't suggest it was unintentional and said we can expect to see pricing in a couple weeks.


So "LASS 3 IS HERE!!" would seem mean something other than LASS 3 is here


----------



## Casiquire

Windbag said:


> Happy to see legato sordino included this time.
> 
> So "LASS 3 IS HERE!!" would seem mean something other than LASS 3 is here


I still don't think we're supposed to have found the site just yet. Can we even navigate to the LASS3 page directly from a link on their site?


----------



## Batrawi

novaburst said:


> ok no more string jokes







... and just like what they did in MSS, in LASS 3, they will also dump the solo viola, and use a remixed version of the MSS solo viola which is originally a remixed viola from LASS in order to match the LASS 3 sound 🙃


----------



## Casiquire

Batrawi said:


> ... and just like what they did in MSS, in LASS 3, they will also dump the solo viola, and use a remixed version of the MSS solo viola which is originally a remixed viola from LASS in order to match the LASS 3 sound 🙃


Hang on, where do you see that?


----------



## Batrawi

Casiquire said:


> Hang on, where do you see that?


don't tell me you didn't know that about MSS!! you're tricking me right?


----------



## Casiquire

Batrawi said:


> don't tell me you didn't know that about MSS!! you're tricking me right?


I own MSS, i do know it's the same viola. I thought you were saying that LASS3 is using MSS's viola? Or maybe you were joking and I'm the humorless buzzkill nobody likes 😆


----------



## samplin

The demos sound great!


----------



## Batrawi

Casiquire said:


> I own MSS. I thought you were saying that LASS3 is using MSS's viola? Or maybe you were joking and I'm the humorless buzzkill nobody likes 😆


yes that was a joke. but it seems that I din't get that you got it... or you din't get it but I got that you got it..? or... never mind I'm going to sleep😄


----------



## Noeticus

Ahhhh.... LASS coded to go inside the MSS Player........... YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dream of MSW - Modern Scoring Winds.


----------



## Casiquire

Batrawi said:


> yes that was a joke. but it seems that I din't get that you got it... or you din't get it but I got that you got it..? or... never mind I'm going to sleep😄


Oh wow I'm the worst lol! Getting way too serious for my own good. I need to go jump in a bouncy house or something


----------



## muziksculp

samplin said:


> The demos sound great!


 LASS 3 demos ?


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> LASS 3 demos ?


I believe they're the same original LASS demos. The longer legato will sound even better


----------



## Batrawi

muziksculp said:


> LASS 3 demos ?


they've uploaded same demos as LASS 2.5. coz they are the same library but with different engine. hopefully they wont upload the same videos😄


----------



## samplin

Casiquire said:


> I believe they're the same original LASS demos. The longer legato will sound even better


Ah! Good to know… I hope lass 3 sounds the same


----------



## Casiquire

samplin said:


> Ah! Good to know… I hope lass 3 sounds the same


With the exception of more control over the legatos, my impression is it does sound the same


----------



## whinecellar

Nando Florestan said:


> On the violins legato, if you go back and forth between E4 and G4, the transition has a noise that almost sounds like a metallic clank. Never been able to unhear it or remove it. Just one example.
> 
> Everyone that uses LASS successfully has an EQ scheme for the violins, but nobody ever shares it -- everybody treats it like the launch codes. I guess finding the EQ was so expensive timewise that it would be impossible to share!?


Man, you clearly have an axe to grind against LASS, so I’m not sure I’m going to be helpful. If you don’t like it, that is certainly your prerogative. As I said in my post, it certainly does have some glaring flaws… but I don’t know of any library that doesn’t. 

As for EQ, it’s not exactly a secret - but as I wrote: “I do have some EQ presets I've created for it to help it blend with other libraries *depending on the piece.”*

So, while I do have starting points, it’s entirely dependent on context. I’m not in front of my rig right now so I can’t give you specifics… I will try to remember to grab an example for you and post it later. If I remember right, it’s just a gentle bit of upper midrange cut around 2.5k or so, with a relatively wide Q. But again, very much dependent on what else is going on. 

I still maintain it’s one of the most fluid legato engines out there, and as a “detail brush” it works so well with other stuff. The shorts are also still one of my go-tos. YMMV!


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> LASS 3 demos ?


Stop getting muziksculp wound up, the demos are still LASS 2.5


----------



## jcrosby

Casiquire said:


> I still don't think we're supposed to have found the site just yet. Can we even navigate to the LASS3 page directly from a link on their site?


I didn't even notice it's not listed on the AB page... They acknowledged it when I emailed them though with pricing will be announced shortly... Beta tester leak maybe?


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Stop getting muziksculp wound up, the demos are still LASS 2.5


Thank You Sir, I appreciate it


----------



## samplin

Nando Florestan said:


> On the violins legato, if you go back and forth between E4 and G4, the transition has a noise that almost sounds like a metallic clank. Never been able to unhear it or remove it. Just one example.
> 
> Everyone that uses LASS successfully has an EQ scheme for the violins, but nobody ever shares it -- everybody treats it like the launch codes. I guess finding the EQ was so expensive timewise that it would be impossible to share!?


I have recordings of lass from years ago and I’m still trying to make the modern strings libraries sound as good… they do take work in the production side which I hope will be improved in lass 3… I don’t have a secret eq as it depends on the piece but I used the standard string cuts 2.4 k and 3.4 k and a multi compressor. Also I found switching the divis section around … putting 3 on top for example helped or just muting one of them worked in some instances. Then a teldex reverb or something similar works really well… there are some odd in consistencies as you mentioned but I found in context of an orchestra it just added to the sound. Also as has been mentioned, I rarely go above 100 on cc1.. usually in the 70 to 80 for forte legato playing ..My 2 cents


----------



## novaburst

It's almost like a different dimension because I can't find anything about the new upgrade on the webpage


----------



## muziksculp

novaburst said:


> It's almost like a different dimension because I can't find anything about the new upgrade on the webpage


ta ra ra-ra.. ta ra ra-ra.. You are in a new dimension .. a dimension of sight, a dimension of sound , you are in The _Twilight Zone ! _


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> ta ra ra-ra.. ta ra ra-ra.. You are in a new dimension .. a dimension of sight, a dimension of sound , you are in The _Twilight Zone ! _


i cant understand how the poster is getting the LASS 3 page on the Audio Bro web site becuase i cant get any info on it, only on this forum i am getting this information so it does feel kind of strange


----------



## doctoremmet

So this link does not work for you? 









LA Scoring Strings 3 - Audiobro


LA Scoring Strings 3 is our classic string library, integrating it seamlessly into our new orchestral engine with a host of new features.



www.audiobro.com


----------



## Casiquire

novaburst said:


> i cant understand how the poster is getting the LASS 3 page on the Audio Bro web site becuase i cant get any info on it, only on this forum i am getting this information so it does feel kind of strange


I have no idea how they got that link, but it is a link to the legitimate site, so we know the information within is legitimate too


----------



## biomuse

Maybe @Markrs could just let us know how he came by the link? I’m guessing he’s probably beta testing.


----------



## doctoremmet

Yes. That would be a typical thing to do - for a beta tester under NDA


----------



## Markrs

biomuse said:


> Maybe @Markrs could just let us know how he came by the link? I’m guessing he’s probably beta testing.


Someone in a Facebook group found it and posted the link. As the page was open to the public and the title says "LASS is here", they assumed it was about to be released.


----------



## novaburst

doctoremmet said:


> So this link does not work for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LA Scoring Strings 3 - Audiobro
> 
> 
> LA Scoring Strings 3 is our classic string library, integrating it seamlessly into our new orchestral engine with a host of new features.
> 
> 
> 
> www.audiobro.com


yes the link takes you to the page but when you click on Home there is no sign of it only LASS 2.5


----------



## Casiquire

novaburst said:


> yes the link takes you to the page but when you click on Home there is no sign of it only LASS 2.5


Right, i think we're looking at it a bit early


----------



## biomuse

Time to track down that NDA-breaching Facebooker…..


----------



## novaburst

whinecellar said:


> I'm 100% convinced that the "harsh" label LASS gets is based on user error, or at the very least, not taking the time to learn it.


This, ...... the very reason why users trash so many Library's


----------



## Nando Florestan

That's not fair at all. On one hand, recognizing 70 as forte can seem pretty straightforward in retrospect, evident even -- but my faith in LASS having linear dynamics in its layers never allowed that thought to surface, in ~7 years using it. By the way, it's a pretty normal thing to expect from any library: that it respond similarly to the real thing. So if Cory Pelizzari (sp?) figures out, for instance, that in Adventure Strings there's a way to keep the dynamic level at the bottom and change only volume and this way still achieve a piano sound, that's what I call a workaround -- but at least Adventure Strings is marketed as an over-the-top library. If LASS is another one, well, it was never marketed as such, since the demos tend to show a sound that is extremely difficult for a common user to get from the library.

I've grown to dislike LASS, you haven't. I am sort of a negative person, that's a personality defect, not the first time I get in trouble for it. But that's all fine. No need to make any of this personal. I am not a clueless user either -- hearing these things is difficult, so please stop with the veiled accusations, and stop identifying with a library! Those are just samples, and in a very limited number too, the real thing is much richer, you know.


----------



## novaburst

I think the harshness and raw grittiness of Lass made it a little difficult to handle but it is these very attributes that make this Library Lass

Take the harshness and grit away then it just becomes another mundane string Library 

Lass is definitely not your plug and play instant delight i think many lean towards that.

IMHO its the grittiness and harshness that make Lass interesting and sets it apart from the rest Lass comes across as very daring, but can offer a lot of texture and graininess again i find that very attractive.

If and when Lass is upgraded to the new player i am sure there will be away to tame the tone but if you do away with that tone whats the point of purchasing, i think we just need to go for a library that has that familiar tone and sound.


Nando Florestan said:


> Those are just samples, and in a very limited number too, the real thing is much richer, you know.


You are correct on this point but some samples you can just play out of the box, with Lass it screams please learn how a strings works. 

I think the real string player will get along with Lass very well


----------



## muziksculp

This was posted by Andrew K. of AudioBro on their forum.

Quote : "That web page was a "placeholder" for when we release it and was not finalized. Sorry for any confusion. It's been taken down. We will announce its release when it's ready for download. I don't want to give an ETA just yet as it's still in Beta and... well... anything can happen.

Thank you for your patience."


----------



## Markrs

muziksculp said:


> This was posted by Andrew K. of AudioBro on their forum.
> 
> Quote : "That web page was a "placeholder" for when we release it and was not finalized. Sorry for any confusion. It's been taken down. We will announce its release when it's ready for download. I don't want to give an ETA just yet as it's still in Beta and... well... anything can happen.
> 
> Thank you for your patience."


I will add that to the first page


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> This was posted by Andrew K. of AudioBro on their forum.
> 
> Quote : "That web page was a "placeholder" for when we release it and was not finalized. Sorry for any confusion. It's been taken down. We will announce its release when it's ready for download. I don't want to give an ETA just yet as it's still in Beta and... well... anything can happen.
> 
> Thank you for your patience."


Thanks for the update. I still think that the page could be considered a sign post for the way things are going and The broad strokes of what it might look like when it's all said and done. I'm still enthusiastically excited for it


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> This was posted by Andrew K. of AudioBro on their forum.
> 
> Quote : "That web page was a "placeholder" for when we release it and was not finalized. Sorry for any confusion. It's been taken down. We will announce its release when it's ready for download. I don't want to give an ETA just yet as it's still in Beta and... well... anything can happen.
> 
> Thank you for your patience."


Oh good, this means it will be ready by late next year.


----------



## Noc

One thing I noticed that I hope they tweak – and it’s a very minor detail – is the LASS 3 interface in the pic (GIF?) on that page was identical to MSS, from the colors to the texture. I hope they create something different and particular to LASS 3 when it’s ready, just as MSS looks different from MSB, maybe using the same basic texture/colors as the LASS 2.5 interface, which I always thought looked quite nice and distinct.


----------



## chrisr

It's up again - released on Friday - website crashing when trying to log in at the moment unfortunately.

As a full 2.5 and LS owner I'll almost certainly update. 

With that and Adachi (and constituent parts) I really should stop writing all this manic kids' tv nonsense and sit and compose something that befits these two absolute beauts.


----------



## Wunderhorn

Here we go:

https://www.audiobro.com/la-scoring-strings-3/

My first question to Audiobro would be:
What about people who own LASS 2.5 + LS *and* have MSS?
Could there perhaps be another little loyalty discount for those maniacs who need both...?


----------



## Zedcars

Ah yes, just this minute received an email from them about this.


----------



## discodave

Worth the 99$ upgrade for the look ahead alone.


----------



## Casiquire

Wunderhorn said:


> Here we go:
> 
> https://www.audiobro.com/la-scoring-strings-3/
> 
> My first question to Audiobro would be:
> What about people who own LASS 2.5 + LS *and* have MSS?
> Could there perhaps be another little loyalty discount for those maniacs who need both...?


Going much lower than 99 wouldn't really be worth it for them, i suppose


----------



## chapbot

Wunderhorn said:


> Here we go:
> 
> https://www.audiobro.com/la-scoring-strings-3/
> 
> My first question to Audiobro would be:
> What about people who own LASS 2.5 + LS *and* have MSS?
> Could there perhaps be another little loyalty discount for those maniacs who need both...?


My dear, you have discovered THE find of the year. Alert @muziksculp immediately!


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> My dear, you have discovered THE find of the year. Alert @muziksculp immediately!


LOL.. I'm alive, and alert... Yes, and ready for LASS 3


----------



## Noeticus

I love LASS 3 already, and I haven't even used it yet.

But then I have already used LASS 2.5, and loved that as well.

The new engine makes LASS 3 just AWESOME!!!


----------



## muziksculp

Noeticus said:


> I love LASS 3 already, and I haven't even used it yet.


Same here. I will finally use LASS, since I never used LASS 2.5, so LASS 3 is like a brand new library for me, and at $99. it's a no brainer.


----------



## Noeticus

Congratualtions to the AudioBro Team!!!

LASS 3 is a dream come true.

Now, I look forward to the MSS vs LASS 3, which one is better, videos.

I will have both!


----------



## Noeticus

muziksculp said:


> Same here. I will finally use LASS, since I never used LASS 2.5, so LASS 3 is like a brand new library for me, and at $99. it's a no brainer.


But do you already own LASS 2.5? But just never used it?


----------



## muziksculp

Noeticus said:


> But do you already own LASS 2.5? But just never used it?


Yup. I never got along with it. 

But, I'm quite sure it's going to be a very different story with LASS 3.


----------



## Noeticus

Also, LASS 3 has the mighty Detune Knob! Yum.


----------



## muziksculp

LASS 3 is only 23 GB. Quite light compared to other Strings libraries, yet offers so much.


----------



## muziksculp

Sadly, AudioBro didn't include Studio One Pro 5 users with LASS 3 Sound-Variations Presets.

I hope they realize Studio One Pro 5 is a very popular DAW, it's not just Logic, and Cubase anymore.

Oh.. I forgot I could convert Cubase Expression Maps into S1Pro 5 Sound-Variations. But even making Sound-Variations from scratch in S1Pro 5 is much easier, and faser than making Cubase Expression maps.


----------



## jneebz

Next up........LADD update! Oh pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez....

Oh. Sorry. #notsorry


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> LASS 3 is only 23 GB. Quite light compared to other Strings libraries, yet offers so much.


It's a very resource friendly library. Keep in mind though, just one mic.


----------



## dxmachina

muziksculp said:


> Sadly, AudioBro didn't include Studio One Pro 5 users with LASS 3 Sound-Variations Presets.
> 
> I hope they realize Studio One Pro 5 is a very popular DAW, it's not just Logic, and Cubase anymore.
> 
> Oh.. I forgot I could convert Cubase Expression Maps into S1Pro 5 Sound-Variations. But even making Sound-Variations from scratch in S1Pro 5 is much easier, and faser than making Cubase Expression maps.


Studio One preset is included along with DP, Logic, Reaper, Cubase (same as MSS). Just missing from the site.


----------



## chapbot

Casiquire said:


> It's a very resource friendly library. Keep in mind though, just one mic.


Yes, The library is so old, developers hadn't figured out the concept of multiple mics yet 😂


----------



## muziksculp

dxmachina said:


> Studio One preset is included along with DP, Logic, Reaper, Cubase (same as MSS). Just missing from the site.



THANK YOU  

OH ... That's awesome. Thanks for letting us know.


----------



## Noc

Whoa, full price for LASS 3 is just $399? That’s quite something, considering I paid almost twice that – $600 – for LASS 2.5 Full _on Black Friday_ just a few short years ago (and that was half again from the normal price of $1,200 at the time). Guess MSS really knocked LASS down a peg … or twenty. 

Still, definitely won’t complain that I can now grab the whole thing for just $99. Considering what you get for it (LASS 2.5’s been my workhorse for years, I only just replaced it with MSS), that’s practically stealing from Audiobro.

Even if it does mean I’ll have to spend another week creating a whole new custom sound set for it to use it with Sibelius … again … 



chapbot said:


> Yes, The library is so old, developers hadn't figured out the concept of multiple mics yet 😂


I had hoped Audiobro would use whatever original recordings they have to create discrete new mics for LASS 3, but I guess that _would_ basically mean creating a whole different library anyway, so I can’t be too disappointed they didn’t. Besides, between the sonic profiles (fka colors) and reverb, you can make it sound as close or distant as you want with little difficulty.


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> It's a very resource friendly library. Keep in mind though, just one mic.


One mic still sounds good. Plus, there are ways to add depth to samples without the extra mics.


----------



## chapbot

Noc said:


> Whoa, full price for LASS 3 is just $399? That’s quite something, considering I paid almost twice that – $600 – for LASS 2.5 Full _on Black Friday_ just a few short years ago (and that was half again from the normal price of $1,200 at the time). Guess MSS really knocked LASS down a peg … or twenty.
> 
> Still, definitely won’t complain that I can now grab the whole thing for just $99. Considering what you get for it (LASS 2.5’s been my workhorse for years, I only just replaced it with MSS), that’s practically stealing from Audiobro.
> 
> Even if it does mean I’ll have to spend another week creating a whole new custom sound set for it to use it with Sibelius … again …
> 
> 
> I had hoped Audiobro would use whatever original recordings they have to create discrete new mics for LASS 3, but I guess that _would_ basically mean creating a whole different library anyway, so I can’t be too disappointed they didn’t. Besides, between the sonic profiles (fka colors) and reverb, you can make it sound as close or distant as you want with little difficulty.


Dear child, back when you were in diapers I paid $999 for the original version 😂


----------



## jamwerks

Do we know what the price will be for someone who owns Genesis (but no AB Strings)?


----------



## chapbot

Casiquire watches LASS3 auto divisi video *passes out*


----------



## Noeticus

muziksculp said:


> One mic still sounds good. Plus, there are ways to add depth to samples without the extra mics.


Plus you can use Tape Saturation to add a bit of, well, Saturation to a mono mic.


----------



## chapbot

Chapbot reads:

Same note rebow – integrated into new patches and auto divisi aware

*passes out*


----------



## wilifordmusic

Sorry, this is a copy and paste from my post (saw that thread first) in the MSS thread which also has references to the "NEW" LASS.

I've bought a lot of sample libraries over the past century. We're talking down payment on a nice house and a couple of cars.

Oh, the libraries mentioned above also paid for said house and cars.

I'm also one of the guys who has used LASS over the past decades and loved it.

This is an insta-buy.

That's how excited I am.


----------



## lexiaodong

LASS 3 will be my first choice strings. I have some nice large strings, but I don’t know why. LASS has magic, just like that sound&feel


----------



## muziksculp

Any idea if the LASS 3 Audio Demos on their site are re-produced using LASS 3 , or are they still the older ones made using LASS 2 ?


----------



## lexiaodong

muziksculp said:


> Any idea if the LASS 3 Audio Demos on their site are re-produced using LASS 3 , or are they still the older ones made using LASS 2 ?


I think their sounds are same, but the UI update better to use.


----------



## Casiquire

chapbot said:


> Casiquire watches LASS3 auto divisi video *passes out*


Actually i like writing out all my parts because I'm obnoxious


----------



## Studio E

Wow, $99 is perhaps the biggest no-brainer of all time. I do hope the new version has just a bit of a refinement to some of the tuning and maybe overall tone. Not that it wasn't really wonderful and I definitely got many miles from it, but there was room for improvement me thinks.


----------



## muziksculp

lexiaodong said:


> I think their sounds are same, but the UI update better to use.





lexiaodong said:


> I think their sounds are same, but the UI update better to use.


Not really. There is much more than a GUI upgrade here. According to the new features added to LASS 3, these demos can sound much better if re-produced using LASS 3.

Maybe @dxmachina can let us know which LASS version was used for the LASS 3 audio demos section.


----------



## Drumdude2112

How does the tone differ from MSS to LASS ?


----------



## muziksculp

Drumdude2112 said:


> How does the tone differ from MSS to LASS ?


LASS is based on older recordings, with one mic position, not multi mics like MSS.

Also I think MSS was recorded in a different hall, so they don't sound alike, very different tones. I don't own MSS, but you can hear demos of both libraries to get a better idea of how they differ. I think the easiest way to describe the difference, is LASS (to me) sounds more intimate, dry, and close, when compared to MSS, plus LASS offers much smaller divisi sections than MSS, if you want that type of sound.


----------



## lzcmusic

dxmachina said:


> Studio One preset is included along with DP, Logic, Reaper, Cubase (same as MSS). Just missing from the site.


Hello
LA Scoring Strings is well-loved in China. Sadly, Chinese users cannot purchase it normally. Even so, Chinese music composers can only buy them from friends abroad and download them abroad and then transfer them back to China. This is too difficult. I really hope that your company can sell it to Chinese users in a friendly way.
thanks


----------



## chapbot

lzcmusic said:


> Hello
> LA Scoring Strings is well-loved in China. Sadly, Chinese users cannot purchase it normally. Even so, Chinese music composers can only buy them from friends abroad and download them abroad and then transfer them back to China. This is too difficult. I really hope that your company can sell it to Chinese users in a friendly way.
> thanks


Why can't Chinese composers buy it from the website? Is it a government thing?


----------



## lexiaodong

lzcmusic said:


> Hello
> LA Scoring Strings is well-loved in China. Sadly, Chinese users cannot purchase it normally. Even so, Chinese music composers can only buy them from friends abroad and download them abroad and then transfer them back to China. This is too difficult. I really hope that your company can sell it to Chinese users in a friendly way.
> thanks


嗯，Support, I bought them all in Singapore,it just doesn’t accept China credit cards


----------



## lexiaodong

chapbot said:


> Why can't Chinese composers buy it from the website? Is it a government thing?


Not the government’s business, About Audiobro own policy


----------



## alcorey

chapbot said:


> Dear child, back when you were in diapers I paid $999 for the original version 😂


Absolutely, same here..... plus what it cost for the Legato-Sordino add on afterwards, can't quite remember as it's only been like 10 or 11 years, but those were around $299 on top of the $999 

I still have the original DVD install set in the plastic box it came in (you couldn't download something that huge back then!!!)

BUT....at least it's gonna be great to move into the new engine and new features for $99   

"But honey, I had already made plans for Friday afternoon"


----------



## muziksculp

alcorey said:


> Absolutely, same here..... plus what it cost for the Legato-Sordino add on afterwards, can't quite remember as it's only been like 10 or 11 years, but those were around $299 on top of the $999
> 
> I still have the original DVD install set in the plastic box it came in (you couldn't download something that huge back then!!!)
> 
> BUT....at least it's gonna be great to move into the new engine and new features for $99
> 
> "But honey, I had already made plans for Friday afternoon"


My over a decade ago LASS & LS investment is finally ready to mature in two days.  

I'm so happy, and excited


----------



## borisb2

muziksculp said:


> Maybe @dxmachina can let us know which LASS version was used for the LASS 3 audio demos section.


some of the audio demos on LASS 3 page I have never heard before .. so they must be new? .. or am I wrong? .. in any case - sounds really good


----------



## biomuse

$99? First genuine no brainer of the season.


----------



## biomuse

chapbot said:


> Dear child, back when you were in diapers I paid $999 for the original version 😂


$899 on a holiday special, here. Every penny worthwhile.


----------



## CT

borisb2 said:


> some of the audio demos on LASS 3 page I have never heard before .. so they must be new? .. or am I wrong? .. in any case - sounds really good


As far as I can tell, everything in the demo player has been around since the previous version.


----------



## borisb2

Michaelt said:


> As far as I can tell, everything in the demo player has been around since the previous version.


hmm ok .. maybe I missed some before .. still sounds good 

EDIT: really good actually ..


----------



## EwigWanderer

I think the upgrade price is a bit too high. I own LASS2 and the LASS LS. I always loved the possibilities of LASS but never got it to sound as I would have wanted. But I’m not an engineer so 🙂


----------



## Henu

Where did you guys see prices? Especially that 99 dollar upgrade?


----------



## alcorey

Henu said:


> Where did you guys see prices? Especially that 99 dollar upgrade?


Under the Products tab









LA Scoring Strings 3 - Audiobro


LA Scoring Strings 3 is our classic string library, integrating it seamlessly into our new orchestral engine with a host of new features.



www.audiobro.com


----------



## muziksculp

Henu said:


> Where did you guys see prices? Especially that 99 dollar upgrade?


----------



## Henu

Oh, thanks! Missed that. For me, it's a no-brainer because as so many, I don't use LASS almost at all. I bought it for about 800 € as my first "real" string library after many recommendations five years ago and needless to say, I was a bit dissappointed.

(So two weeks after that I spent my last saving to buy CINESTRINGS because I thought they would fit better for my music, but let's not go to that trauma now. :D)


----------



## Nando Florestan

Drumdude2112 said:


> How does the tone differ from MSS to LASS ?


MSS sounds uninteresting, civilized, with very little vibrato.

LASS, having been recorded by 16-year-old engineers with 12-year-old violinists, sounds acid, noisy, barbaric, in your face, and you can abandon any hope of making it sound like the demos. I can almost honestly say it's a scam. But like anything else in this world, there will be people defending it. Oh and if you play ~Andante there's a sucking sound in the legatos because each note has a slight crescendo at the start. MSS suffers from none of these problems as far as I can tell not owning it but having seen all the videos possible.

Do a search for "Scoring Strings" in Soundcloud and you'll find tens of horrible mockups done with LASS. Good mockups will be one or two, plus the official demos.

At least MSS can be used rather than fought.


----------



## jcrosby

Fuck this noise. I'm in like good old fashioned heathenistic sin. I've been tuning out the rest of the general BF/CM noise specifically waiting for this announcement


----------



## Drumdude2112

Nando Florestan said:


> MSS sounds uninteresting, civilized, with very little vibrato.
> 
> LASS, having been recorded by 16-year-old engineers with 12-year-old violinists, sounds acid, noisy, barbaric, in your face, and you can abandon any hope of making it sound like the demos. I can almost honestly say it's a scam. But like anything else in this world, there will be people defending it. Oh and if you play ~Andante there's a sucking sound in the legatos because each note has a slight crescendo at the start. MSS suffers from none of these problems as far as I can tell not owning it but having seen all the videos possible.
> 
> Do a search for "Scoring Strings" in Soundcloud and you'll find tens of horrible mockups done with LASS. Good mockups will be one or two, plus the official demos.
> 
> At least MSS can be used rather than fought.


Interesting take on it.
Only listened to MSS demos so far and though its features look rad and enticing (definitely looks like something i’d want ) yeah the tone didn’t rock me by any stretch…didn’t think it sounded bad by any means , i just have other libraries i like more…(i admittedly like a very healthy amount of vibrato lol !


----------



## constaneum

so is it worth the upgrade ? $99. hmm...


----------



## Casiquire

biomuse said:


> $899 on a holiday special, here. Every penny worthwhile.


I did the slow, extremely painful upgrade path one piece at a time. I was like 21 and had no money (as opposed to now, I'm writing this from my sixth yacht) so first i got LASS Lite, then FC, then upgraded to Full, then added LS over the course of like a year or something. Probably spent around 900 as well. On the bright side their upgrade path was very generous and it only cost fifty bucks more doing it the way i did than it would've cost to buy the full package at once


----------



## Henu

constaneum said:


> so is it worth the upgrade ? $99. hmm...


It's the "I don't use this library but if I only upgraded, maybe I then would.... and then I didn't waste my money in the first place"- dilemma.


----------



## muziksculp

Henu said:


> It's the "I don't use this library but if I only upgraded, maybe I then would.... and then I didn't waste my money in the first place"- dilemma.


Exactly this.


----------



## Gerbil

Looks nice.

I never really gelled with LASS and didn't care much for the IR presets in the ARC, so it's sat unused for many years. If they've sorted out its tuning issues it might be worth a punt just to get LS sordinos.


----------



## Scalms

I’m in the same boat as others here, trying to figure out if $99 is worth it for a library with a metallic grating tone. I will say though, like any library, there are useful things. The dryness, especially of the shorts, combines really well with say, HZS, to get more biting definition. 

I like shiny new things, and the fancy new GUI, and creative tools may be worth the upgrade. But very undecided at the moment


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

Nando Florestan said:


> MSS sounds uninteresting, civilized, with very little vibrato.
> 
> LASS, having been recorded by 16-year-old engineers with 12-year-old violinists, sounds acid, noisy, barbaric, in your face, and you can abandon any hope of making it sound like the demos. I can almost honestly say it's a scam. But like anything else in this world, there will be people defending it. Oh and if you play ~Andante there's a sucking sound in the legatos because each note has a slight crescendo at the start. MSS suffers from none of these problems as far as I can tell not owning it but having seen all the videos possible.
> 
> Do a search for "Scoring Strings" in Soundcloud and you'll find tens of horrible mockups done with LASS. Good mockups will be one or two, plus the official demos.
> 
> At least MSS can be used rather than fought.


Blame the user not the library.
The fact that you can't get a good sound out of LASS is a consequence of your skills...


----------



## novaburst

EwigWanderer said:


> think the upgrade price is a bit too high. I own LASS2 and the LASS LS. I


I think if you were fine with the player of Lass 2 then you would need to ask your self some questions as to why you would purchase Lass again

I think the benefits are more to those who did not get the Sordino version as in Lass 3 comes with the Sordino.


EwigWanderer said:


> always loved the possibilities of LASS but never got it to sound as I would have wanted. But I’m not an engineer so 🙂


Lass is the type of string library you either love them or you hate them. 

I think some mistakes People do are trying to get Lass to sound like another string library, that's a no-no Lass has its own character.

But if later Audiobro start to add things like ostinato this library will be a smasher .


----------



## Henu

Patrick de Caumette said:


> The fact that you can't get a good sound out of LASS is a consequence of your skills...


That, or the fact that you can't bring a shiny 50's Cadillac into F1 race and expect to win.
Nevertheless, I'm eagerly waiting to hear your music with LASS, which you of course mixed yourself.


----------



## EwigWanderer

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Blame the user not the library.
> The fact that you can't get a good sound out of LASS is a consequence of your skills...


You should understand that I am blaming myself not the library!! I even bought MIR and I did get better results with it but because I’m not writing music full time spending money for a 1000€ library is a big deal (+ LASS LS) Now with two kids 99€ for trying something out is just a gamble. 

And that legato thing. Is it fixed now?

So if someone writes their own options about the price it’s not in good manner to laugh about it.


----------



## Casiquire

LASS has been used professionally since it was released. Calling it a "scam" is genuinely hilarious.


----------



## LondonMike

Can anyone tell me if the new Lass 3 will have the same playability for fast legato lines as Lass 2.5
I have 2.5 and recently bought MSS which is pretty amazing but it’s got that ‘behind the beat’ lag in legatos which make it hard to bang out line quickly.

Would I be stupid to grab Lass 3 in the sale just for playability or will the legatos be more like MSS?


----------



## novaburst

Nando Florestan said:


> MSS sounds uninteresting, civilized, with very little vibrato.
> 
> LASS, having been recorded by 16-year-old engineers with 12-year-old violinists, sounds acid, noisy, barbaric, in your face, and you can abandon any hope of making it sound like the demos. I can almost honestly say it's a scam. But like anything else in this world, there will be people defending it. Oh and if you play ~Andante there's a sucking sound in the legatos because each note has a slight crescendo at the start. MSS suffers from none of these problems as far as I can tell not owning it but having seen all the videos possible.
> 
> Do a search for "Scoring Strings" in Soundcloud and you'll find tens of horrible mockups done with LASS. Good mockups will be one or two, plus the official demos.
> 
> At least MSS can be used rather than fought.


With all that said it is undeniable that many people get along with it untill this very day and are still loving it and to some it can't be replaced with today's tone and sound, so I guess you will need to call it a double edge sword 

Putting Lass in the latest player is a great idea and a step forward for this library

What I am learning more and more is true musicians don't slam or disrespectful to other musicians and development. It just does not happen you see .

What I will do is do a muckup just for you and the title will be called don't let it go to you head


----------



## dcoscina

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Blame the user not the library.
> The fact that you can't get a good sound out of LASS is a consequence of your skills...


I used LASS for a couple commercial projects when it first landed and I had no issues with getting final cues approved. I liked its aggressive, natural sound. I even used it layered with Cinematic Strings 1 for more detail in the sound.

@Nando Florestan - offering an opinion is fine but making assertions about 16 year engineers and 12 year old violinists being involved in the project, to me, is libellous. No call for it....

disclaimer- While I do receive review copies of libraries from some developers, I paid full price for LASS and have never received free products from Audio Bro.


----------



## axb312

Studio E said:


> Wow, $99 is perhaps the biggest no-brainer of all time. I do hope the new version has just a bit of a refinement to some of the tuning and maybe overall tone. Not that it wasn't really wonderful and I definitely got many miles from it, but there was room for improvement me thinks.


Donno. Seems like a repackaging of the same content...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

LondonMike said:


> Can anyone tell me if the new Lass 3 will have the same playability for fast legato lines as Lass 2.5
> I have 2.5 and recently bought MSS which is pretty amazing but it’s got that ‘behind the beat’ lag in legatos which make it hard to bang out line quickly.
> 
> Would I be stupid to grab Lass 3 in the sale just for playability or will the legatos be more like MSS?


For MSS "lag", adjust the transition speed knob all the way up - and make sure you have lookahead on plus set your track delay to -400ms.


----------



## Noeticus

LASS old or new is amazing!

If someone does not like the tone, no worries, as the amount of string libraries out there is staggering.

I am able to get LASS to sound great, and I don't particularly know what I am doing compared to some on this forum.


----------



## Scalms

I will say though that LASS had some incredible patches that are unbeat IMO, like Basses pizz, and their sordinos are one of the best


----------



## EwigWanderer

Casiquire said:


> LASS has been used professionally since it was released. Calling it a "scam" is genuinely hilarious.





novaburst said:


> I think if you were fine with the player of Lass 2 then you would need to ask your self some questions as to why you would purchase Lass again
> 
> I think the benefits are more to those who did not get the Sordino version as in Lass 3 comes with the Sordino.
> 
> Lass is the type of string library you either love them or you hate them.
> 
> I think some mistakes People do are trying to get Lass to sound like another string library, that's a no-no Lass has its own character.
> 
> But if later Audiobro start to add things like ostinato this library will be a smasher .


I kinda liked the sound when I bought it but not as much as Hollywood Strings. Now about 10 years later I do like the sound more because it's more at the raw side but the demos sold me the library back in the day. I never got even close with the sound what I was hearing in the demos so I got frustrated.


----------



## AlexRuger

To all those who think LASS sounds too bright/"acidic"/dry/etc:

This is a feature, not a bug. EQs exist, you can very easily remove that extra bow noise with a dip at around 2k. But you can't add it if it isn't there in the first place.

On super quiet passages, that extra bow noise is magic. Ditto for layering with really dark libraries. LASS is IMO one of the single most useful and versatile string libraries in existence for this reason.


----------



## Mr Greg G

It seems like there's not much love for LASS harsh sound. Still the best strings library for me because it has a good dynamic range and the high velocities sound very harsh with a good attack (bow pressure). Since it sounds so dry, I can apply whatever reverb I want on it without it sounding muddy compared to other libraries with ambient room mics.

You may count it in the tracks that sound bad but I used LASS on this one (and maybe a tiny touch of Symphobia IIRC)


----------



## CT

Every time I think I've narrowed down the most absurd poster on this forum, someone else comes along to upset the balance.


----------



## Nando Florestan

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Blame the user not the library.
> The fact that you can't get a good sound out of LASS is a consequence of your skills...


I agreed with you for years and years, composed less to spend time trying to mix LASS. After 7 years I think it’s finally time to give up - better options out there, including MSS.


----------



## Nando Florestan

Casiquire said:


> LASS has been used professionally since it was released. Calling it a "scam" is genuinely hilarious.


The reason I disagree is, the demos and discussions at the time of release painted LASS as something similar to Hollywood Strings, which verily it is not, never was.


----------



## AndyP

This year I was close to buying Lass 2.5 because I like the crisp and harsh sound. Something I miss in many other libraries. In addition, there are Divisi (+ Autodivisi) and First Chairs in one library, of which there are also not many.
What kept me away was the old ARC scripting system which is replaced by the new UI. This seems to be much easier to use based on the videos.

I'm also not necessarily interested in the full Ensemble, but the Divisi sections. Has anyone ever written exclusively with the Divisi sections? And are more intimate, fragile compositions possible that go more in the direction of a chamber sound? 

My impression is also that LASS 3 is great for layering. I have the Spitfire Studiostrings Pro, which I like primarily for the additional articulations that are missing in LASS3. Both libraries are rather dry recorded, has anyone combined these two? The Legatos and the Shorts also sound much better than in SStP for my taste.

For buyers in Europe, is the tax already included in the prices, or are they added afterwards in PayPal? Unfortunately, the dollar - euro exchange rate is currently not quite so favorable.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

I am totally looking forward to this.
For the longest time, LASS' legato was the best around.
The spics were excellent.
With the new AudiBro engine, the control of the shaping of lines is going to be great, and having all articulations in one patch will bring it back into my default template.

I do mix my own tracks, and i am far from the best at it, unfortunately...
However, you asked for it, so here are a couple of short examples:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xy7zpblt5hguuxr/LASS%20rough%20examples-m.wav?dl=0 (LASS rough examples)
Old tracks, bad mixes, but you can hear LASS doing its thing:
excerpt 1: legato
excerpt 2: spics using the automated sequenced accent feature (just play the voicing sustained, and the engine will play the pre-defined pattern)
excerpt 3: LASS with MSB and Genesis

Andrew K. is my friend, but i bought LASS when it came out, full price, so this is my honest opinion.
I wouldn't want to drive an F1 downtown, or to the beach. Each library has its uses.

Looking forward to 3.0!


----------



## Casiquire

Nando Florestan said:


> The reason I disagree is, the demos and discussions at the time of release painted LASS as something similar to Hollywood Strings, which ostensibly it is not, never was.


I find it way more consistent, practical, and therefore useful.


----------



## Gerbil

novaburst said:


> What I am learning more and more is true musicians don't slam or disrespectful to other musicians and development. It just does not happen you see .


Have you ever played in a professional orchestra? When the chemistry isn’t right it can be a seething warzone!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Nando Florestan said:


> MSS sounds uninteresting, civilized, with very little vibrato.
> 
> LASS, having been recorded by 16-year-old engineers with 12-year-old violinists, sounds acid, noisy, barbaric, in your face, and you can abandon any hope of making it sound like the demos. I can almost honestly say it's a scam. But like anything else in this world, there will be people defending it. Oh and if you play ~Andante there's a sucking sound in the legatos because each note has a slight crescendo at the start. MSS suffers from none of these problems as far as I can tell not owning it but having seen all the videos possible.
> 
> Do a search for "Scoring Strings" in Soundcloud and you'll find tens of horrible mockups done with LASS. Good mockups will be one or two, plus the official demos.
> 
> At least MSS can be used rather than fought.


I SURE HOPE NOBODY BELIEVES THIS UTTER NONSENSE.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

axb312 said:


> Donno. Seems like a repackaging of the same content...



Repackaging of the same content in the sense that an adult is a repackaged child.

Not the best analogy, but the point is that the adult has learned a lot through years of experience. Sample libraries are more than their raw recordings.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

Nando Florestan said:


> The reason I disagree is, the demos and discussions at the time of release painted LASS as something similar to Hollywood Strings, which ostensibly it is not, never was.


LASS came out before Hollywood Strings


----------



## clisma

To all the positive things that have been said I'll add that LASS is very good at being blended with a live recording of a single instrument or small string ensemble.

I happen to think that its somewhat aggressive, perhaps even strident demeanor at certain dynamics and ranges is a plus that can be controlled - and the library can be molded sound-wise.

Furthermore, it has paid for its steep initial price many times over in the years I've owned it. It fell out of use in the last two years, but I just used it again in a cue. I still love the sound and the immediacy.


----------



## Nando Florestan

Patrick de Caumette said:


> LASS came out before Hollywood Strings


Thanks, I learn that you are correct! I would still make the point that the LASS demos are better demos for a Hollywood Strings type of sound than a LASS type of sound, wrong as I might seem in such a sentence. What I mean is, I could use Hollywood Strings out of the box and get that kind of sound, but in 7 years trying to mix LASS, I still cannot sound like one of its demos. "But that's your fault" -- oh come on! The product is hard to use, let's face it!


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

Nando Florestan said:


> Thanks, I learn that you are correct! I would still make the point that the LASS demos are better demos for a Hollywood Strings type of sound than a LASS type of sound, wrong as I might seem in such a sentence. What I mean is, I could use Hollywood Strings out of the box and get that kind of sound, but in 7 years trying to mix LASS, I still cannot sound like one of its demos. "But that's your fault" -- oh come on! The product is hard to use, let's face it!


Why do people make their personal experience sound like it’s the gospel truth?

you don’t like it… fair enough…. Now get on with your life.

btw: Skyrim has LASS all over it….. just a few demo’s too?.


----------



## chapbot

Patrick de Caumette said:


> LASS came out before Hollywood Strings


he just got REKT


----------



## muziksculp

I think if the LASS demos had in-depth video tutorials to go along, that showed how they were produced, and what EQ, Reverb, ..etc. , articulations, CC-Data, were used..etc. there will be less of an issue, and more transparency that LASS is very capable, and these demos are done with it, there is no magic, or illusion here. It's just a matter of knowing how, vs not knowing how.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

I'll upgrade to LASS 3 for $50 for sure. Nut sure about $100. I never really liked the previous GUI but love the new one.


----------



## dcoscina

I wonder- I cannot seem to access my account probably because it’s been ages since I bought LASS and even updated to 2.5… wondering if there’s any issues trying to upgrade….


----------



## alcorey

Nando Florestan said:


> Thanks, I learn that you are correct! I would still make the point that the LASS demos are better demos for a Hollywood Strings type of sound than a LASS type of sound, wrong as I might seem in such a sentence. What I mean is, I could use Hollywood Strings out of the box and get that kind of sound, but in 7 years trying to mix LASS, I still cannot sound like one of its demos. "But that's your fault" -- oh come on! The product is hard to use, let's face it!


What happens in Brazil should stay in Brazil


----------



## alcorey

dcoscina said:


> I wonder- I cannot seem to access my account probably because it’s been ages since I bought LASS and even updated to 2.5… wondering if there’s any issues trying to upgrade….


I would think to maybe send them a brief note on their forum so that they can correct it if need be before the sale goes on if you're thinking to buy in at noon

I purchased when it first came out years ago and I'm not having any issues


----------



## CT

Silence-is-Golden said:


> btw: Skyrim has LASS all over it….. just a few demo’s too?.


...just as an aside, I think I told you this, and years later I must now correct myself as "all over" was probably an exaggeration which distracts from the strength of the private string samples used. I would not assume the possibility of totally similar results with LASS.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Nice response from Andrew to a question on if an MSS owner should consider LASS 3.0:

_"In a word... Yes. The smaller divisis really do add an intimacy that MSS can't. But the best part is the LASS divisis blend so well with MSS. Our favorite combination (in-house here at Audiobro) is combining LASS Divisi B violins with MSS. For whatever reason, the Divisi B violins in LASS have more vibrato and add an extra layer of emotion to MSS. But in general, it's the difference in sound that blends well."_


----------



## constaneum

Henu said:


> It's the "I don't use this library but if I only upgraded, maybe I then would.... and then I didn't waste my money in the first place"- dilemma.


i have the exact thought too even though i've moved on with other libraries but i'm thinking of getting back to it. just that whether it's worth paying $99 for it. Probably i'll wait for the walkthrough.


----------



## Noeticus

I would pay $99 just for the DETUNE Knob.


----------



## Studio E

I think LASS was my first dedicated string library, after owning GPO and the original (remember the "Kompakt" player) EWQLSO Gold. It took a minute to get acclimated, and I didn't always love the sound immediately, but once I got the feel for the dynamics on the Sus/Leg patches, it served me really really well. Now I own god-only-knows how many string collections, but mosrt of the big names, and I am super excited about a $99 upgrade. If it just makes the whole thing look prettier and slightly easier to use, it's absolutely worth it (to me). It's a polarizing library, but I can tell you, it's been used professionally, plenty. I found my best results by using a convo reverb, probably Spaces at that time, and making it pretty wet, as well as maybe EQ'ing out a bit of the harshness. I always thought the playability was almost unparalleled, at least among all the other libraries I was using. I can also tell you, I never received any objections by any director over the sound of the strings, and I can assure you that many loved it, many times. It is extremely expressive to play. It just felt like it was very agile in legato mode, and no one had spiccato shorts like that at the time, and it's tough to find them that fast even now.


----------



## muziksculp

The new Legato Look-ahead feature in LASS 3 is another big improvement over LASS 2.5 . This is not a minor improvement. 

I wish Alex W./Cinematic Studio Series, will just implement the Legato Look-ahead feature in CSS, and the other libraries, and call it a day.


----------



## chapbot

Since the LASS solo violin/cello are not as good as the solo violin/cello in MSS (viola is the same) I wonder how the MSS solos would work as first as first chairs for LASS3?


----------



## Henu

Studio E said:


> I think LASS was my first dedicated string library, after owning GPO and the original (remember the "Kompakt" player) EWQLSO Gold.


Uhm....hello....me? Funny coincidence, I did exactly the same!


----------



## chapbot

Henu said:


> Uhm....hello....me? Funny coincidence, I did exactly the same!


LOL so did I! Remember the days when GPO was literally the only string library out! Then came EWQLSO and then LASS.


----------



## Studio E

Henu said:


> Uhm....hello....me? Funny coincidence, I did exactly the same!


It was probably just the timing of everything, meaning of the markets. I don't know what else was available at that time to migrate to, but we SURE as heck didn't have near the amount of choices we do now, haha. It's an amazing time to be looking for strings!


----------



## Grizzlymv

And it seems to be up now: https://www.audiobro.com/ab-store/#




decisions decisions decisons.... and Genesis at 199...oh my...


----------



## Studio E

I am certainly not a fan of Mike these days, but his talent is unquestionable, and here he is using LASS with some specialized IRs. Sounds Amazing!


----------



## jbuhler

Does anyone know how long the AudioBro BF pricing is supposed to last? I couldn’t find an end date on the website.


----------



## ThomasL

jbuhler said:


> Does anyone know how long the AudioBro BF pricing is supposed to last? I couldn’t find an end date on the website.


Until December 31st.

EDIT: sorry, that is probably the upgrade offer.


----------



## Evans

Grizzlymv said:


> And it seems to be up now: https://www.audiobro.com/ab-store/#
> 
> 
> 
> 
> decisions decisions decisons.... and Genesis at 199...oh my...


As a reminder, loyalty prices don't update for about another five or six hours.


----------



## Grizzlymv

Question for people currently with Lass, I've seen that Lass 3 have a Tuning button, but in general, are you able to use the pitch wheel with Lass to do strings bending? That's one of my major complain with the Cinematic Studio series and I've been always looking to LASS and I've seen people being able to do it in MSS, but not sure if that's possible in LASS as well. anyone can comment on it? Think of The Beast from Scicario as an extreme example of what I'm talking about.


----------



## Studio E

Grizzlymv said:


> Question for people currently with Lass, I've seen that Lass 3 have a Tuning button, but in general, are you able to use the pitch wheel with Lass to do strings bending? That's one of my major complain with the Cinematic Studio series and I've been always looking to LASS and I've seen people being able to do it in MSS, but not sure if that's possible in LASS as well. anyone can comment on it? Think of The Beast from Scicario as an extreme example of what I'm talking about.


Just tried it in LASS 3. It does indeed work.


----------



## Casiquire

chapbot said:


> Since the LASS solo violin/cello are not as good as the solo violin/cello in MSS (viola is the same) I wonder how the MSS solos would work as first as first chairs for LASS3?



The solo viola in MSS is kind of different from the LASS one. They're programmed differently, to my ears they even perform a little differently, and the ambience is different. I'm not sure if they used a different mic mix from their original recordings, or if they applied some type of reverb. Anyway though i don't see why they wouldn't work with LASS



Grizzlymv said:


> Question for people currently with Lass, I've seen that Lass 3 have a Tuning button, but in general, are you able to use the pitch wheel with Lass to do strings bending? That's one of my major complain with the Cinematic Studio series and I've been always looking to LASS and I've seen people being able to do it in MSS, but not sure if that's possible in LASS as well. anyone can comment on it? Think of The Beast from Scicario as an extreme example of what I'm talking about.


In the new interface LASS has even more tuning and detuning options!


----------



## muk

LASS has an ideal setup for me. I really like their divisi approach, and personally I don't need several mic positions if the one that is there suits my needs. (As an aside, if I am not mistaken, the LASS sound is not a single microphone position but a mix of several mic positions). LASS has a lot of appeal to me. The sound, however, is a stumbling block for me. It is very bright. And not just at higher dynamics (where it gets strident), but through the all dynamics. I keep hearing that you can eq that out easily. I haven’t heard a demo that does not sound bright, though, or – on the contrary – muffled. The Batman sound profile goes into the right direction for me.

My kind of strings sound is a transparent concert hall sound. Unfortunately, I don’t think that you can get that from LASS, no matter what processing you throw at it. That’s not the libraries fault, of course. Just a different aesthetic.

In my experience, if you buy a library with the idea to make it sound different than it does out of the box leads to disappointment. Yes, you can change the sound a bit with an eq. But there are definite limits to that. Getting a lush, sweeping Hollywood sound out of LASS, or a concert hall sound – you are fighting against the inherent, bright, recording studio sound if you want to do that. And that’s always a compromise. If you want that large screen Hollywood sound, use strings that have been recorded the same way as in the movies. If you want a concert hall sound, use strings that have been recorded in a concert hall by an engineer that does classical recordings (if only such a library existed!).

If you watch the video about the stage and color profiles, that should give you a good idea what is and isn’t possible sound wise.


----------



## AndyP

Somehow I am exactly interested in this quite high, sharp sound. Symphonic strings that are soft and round I have enough. LASS also seems to have the right amount of vibrato, which I like very much.
I can imagine mixing LASS with Hollywood Strings which are sometimes a bit too soft for me (except for the Divisi), or Century Sordinos.
The shorts sound crisp and seemed to work very well for fast ostinatos. 
I guess I will be in.

A bit of a pity that the Century Strings are not available with Divisi, because I also like them very much. I am apparently more on the bright side of life ...


----------



## Noeticus

muk said:


> LASS has an ideal setup for me. I really like their divisi approach, and personally I don't need several mic positions if the one that is there suits my needs. (As an aside, if I am not mistaken, the LASS sound is not a single microphone position but a mix of several mic positions). LASS has a lot of appeal to me. The sound, however, is stumbling block for me. It is very bright. And not just at higher dynamics (where it gets strident), but through the all dynamics. I keep hearing that you can eq that out easily. I haven’t heard a demo that does not sound bright, though, or – on the contrary – muffled. The Batman sound profile goes into the right direction for me.
> 
> My kind of strings sound is a transparent concert hall sound. Unfortunately, I don’t think that you can get that from LASS, no matter what processing you throw at it. That’s not the libraries fault, of course. Just a different aesthetic.
> 
> In my experience, if you buy a library with the idea to make it sound different than it does out of the box leads to disappointment. Yes, you can change the sound a bit with an eq. But there are definite limits to that. Getting a lush, sweeping Hollywood sound out of LASS, or a concert hall sound – you are fighting against the inherent, bright, recording studio sound if you want to do that. And that’s always a compromise. If you want that large screen Hollywood sound, use strings that have been recorded the same way as in the movies. If you want a concert hall sound, use strings that have been recorded in a concert hall by an engineer that does classical recordings (if only such a library existed!).
> 
> If you watch the video about the stage and color profiles, that should give you a good idea what is and isn’t possible sound wise.


Thanks for this!

So, what is a bit odd to me is that if say 12 Violins are just that, 12 violins, then how did AudioBro record them to not sound how they really are? Does the "room" really have THAT much effect? I guess it does, but it seems that the "room" has more effect than I would think it should in a professional recording studio "room" environment.


----------



## chlady

muk said:


> If you want a concert hall sound, use strings that have been recorded in a concert hall by an engineer that does classical recordings (if only such a library existed!).


Thats what EWQLSO was. It was probably my first string orchestral /string lib followed by LASS. for $1000. A bit dated now EWQLSO still has it's uses although not as much as previously. https://www.soundsonline.com/symphonic-orchestra 
The new interface for LASS does look like a nice improvement as well for a much different sound.


----------



## Scalms

muk said:


> LASS has an ideal setup for me. I really like their divisi approach, and personally I don't need several mic positions if the one that is there suits my needs. (As an aside, if I am not mistaken, the LASS sound is not a single microphone position but a mix of several mic positions). LASS has a lot of appeal to me. The sound, however, is a stumbling block for me. It is very bright. And not just at higher dynamics (where it gets strident), but through the all dynamics. I keep hearing that you can eq that out easily. I haven’t heard a demo that does not sound bright, though, or – on the contrary – muffled. The Batman sound profile goes into the right direction for me.
> 
> My kind of strings sound is a transparent concert hall sound. Unfortunately, I don’t think that you can get that from LASS, no matter what processing you throw at it. That’s not the libraries fault, of course. Just a different aesthetic.
> 
> In my experience, if you buy a library with the idea to make it sound different than it does out of the box leads to disappointment. Yes, you can change the sound a bit with an eq. But there are definite limits to that. Getting a lush, sweeping Hollywood sound out of LASS, or a concert hall sound – you are fighting against the inherent, bright, recording studio sound if you want to do that. And that’s always a compromise. If you want that large screen Hollywood sound, use strings that have been recorded the same way as in the movies. If you want a concert hall sound, use strings that have been recorded in a concert hall by an engineer that does classical recordings (if only such a library existed!).
> 
> If you watch the video about the stage and color profiles, that should give you a good idea what is and isn’t possible sound wise.


Well said, totally agree here


----------



## Scalms

Noeticus said:


> Thanks for this!
> 
> So, what is a bit odd to me is that if say 12 Violins are just that, 12 violins, then how did AudioBro record them to not sound how they really are? Does the "room" really have THAT much effect? I guess it does, but it seems that the "room" has more effect than I would think it should in a professional recording studio "room" environment.


HZ decides where to record depending on the movie and the sound he is going for


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

Michaelt said:


> ...just as an aside, I think I told you this, and years later I must now correct myself as "all over" was probably an exaggeration which distracts from the strength of the private string samples used. I would not assume the possibility of totally similar results with LASS.


And you are jeremy soule, operating here under a pseudonym? 😏


----------



## muk

Noeticus said:


> Thanks for this!


You're welcome!



Noeticus said:


> So, what is a bit odd to me is that if say 12 Violins are just that, 12 violins, then how did AudioBro record them to not sound how they really are? Does the "room" really have THAT much effect? I guess it does, but it seems that the "room" has more effect than I would think it should in a professional recording studio "room" environment.



I am not sure if I understand your question correctly. Important factors for the sound of samples are


the players (and the instruction they are given on how to play)
the recording setup and techniques
the room
Whether you instruct the players to play like they would in a Beethoven Symphony, or in a Hollywood Blockbuster movie, or in an Anime soundtrack, the result will sound very differently obviously.

The second most important factor is the recording engineering. Depending on the microphone placement and techniques, the equipment used, and the processing applied afterwards, you can get very different results even from the same room. I posted about this here:






Sonokinetic's Upcoming Strings Library. Your Expectations


Do you use Con Moto ? If you do, would you recommend them ? Thanks. I don't I'm afraid! I'm interested in Vista to complement my 8Dio Century strings. But no, no Con Moto sorry.




vi-control.net





Sonokinetic's strings and 8dio's Century Strings have both been recorded in the same concert hall in Zlin. Yet they sound totally different. Century Strings sound brighter and more aggressive, Sonokinetic's more transparent. That's the difference the recording engineer makes. Depending on mic placement,

The room has an influence in as much as it sets the limits for what is possible for the recording engineer. If you record in a dry studio, you will can't get an expansive sound with a long tail. Conversely, if you record in Air Lyndhurst, you won't get an intimate studio kind of sound.

So yes, this all contributes to the final sound of the recording. The hall is probably not the most important factor, but it is a factor in the resulting sound.



chlady said:


> Thats what EWQLSO was. It was probably my first string orchestral /string lib followed by LASS. for $1000. A bit dated now EWQLSO still has it's uses although not as much as previously. https://www.soundsonline.com/symphonic-orchestra
> The new interface for LASS does look like a nice improvement as well for a much different sound.


Yes, indeed. The sound is such a timeless classic. The programming is showing its age however. Soundwise I still very much like that library though.


----------



## AndyP

I am now a LASS 3 owner. However, it seems to take a little longer with the registration, until now no mail came that my account was activated. I can log in to AB Downloader, but there is still no library displayed that I can download. Login to User Control Panel is pending as well.

However, I'm not in a hurry right now and need to watch a movie with my beloved. Let's see if I can concentrate on the movie ... 

Edit: Maybe I'm too early and the library is not ready for download yet. Have not considered the time ... Noon has just dawned.


----------



## Henu

Bought the upgrade. The new workflow was way too convincing to not to do it.


----------



## LHall

Nando Florestan said:


> MSS sounds uninteresting, civilized, with very little vibrato.
> 
> LASS, having been recorded by 16-year-old engineers with 12-year-old violinists, sounds acid, noisy, barbaric, in your face, and you can abandon any hope of making it sound like the demos. I can almost honestly say it's a scam. But like anything else in this world, there will be people defending it. Oh and if you play ~Andante there's a sucking sound in the legatos because each note has a slight crescendo at the start. MSS suffers from none of these problems as far as I can tell not owning it but having seen all the videos possible.
> 
> Do a search for "Scoring Strings" in Soundcloud and you'll find tens of horrible mockups done with LASS. Good mockups will be one or two, plus the official demos.
> 
> At least MSS can be used rather than fought.


I disagree profoundly. LASS is definitely NOT a scam. And unless you're being sarcastic, these comments are nearly defamatory. 

I'm a professional musician who has been making a living using primarily LASS since it arrived on the scene. I've done scoring for several major artists who love the sound. I've had respected symphony players ask where I recorded the live strings. I've had mastering engineers who didn't quite believe they were virtual. 

Everyone's entitled to their opinion of course. But if you can't make LASS sound good, it's because you are expecting someone else to do all the work for you.


----------



## Henu

Ok, now this is just so fun.

I was under the impression that LASS3 uses the samples from LASS2.5 (+LS) so I installed only the patches first. Well, it doesn't. And by downloading the patches, I just lost my option to download the samples because the fucking download center now thinks that I have already used my generous one (1) download.

Any ideas? Would be appreciated.


----------



## muziksculp

Henu said:


> Ok, now this is just so fun.
> 
> I was under the impression that LASS3 uses the samples from LASS2.5 (+LS) so I installed only the patches first. Well, it doesn't. And by downloading the patches, I just lost my option to download the samples because the fucking download center now thinks that I have already used my generous one (1) download.
> 
> Any ideas? Would be appreciated.


Could you request them to reset your download center, so you can download the samples ? I hope so.

I haven't downloaded LASS 3 yet, but it's good to know about this (THANKS). 

I will most likely delete the LASS 2.5 and LS folders. Since I don't use them, and just keep LASS 3 once I have it downloaded.

Thanks.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Henu said:


> Ok, now this is just so fun.
> 
> I was under the impression that LASS3 uses the samples from LASS2.5 (+LS) so I installed only the patches first. Well, it doesn't. And by downloading the patches, I just lost my option to download the samples because the fucking download center now thinks that I have already used my generous one (1) download.
> 
> Any ideas? Would be appreciated.


Contact them, they'll work it out for sure.


----------



## AndyP

Henu said:


> Ok, now this is just so fun.
> 
> I was under the impression that LASS3 uses the samples from LASS2.5 (+LS) so I installed only the patches first. Well, it doesn't. And by downloading the patches, I just lost my option to download the samples because the fucking download center now thinks that I have already used my generous one (1) download.
> 
> Any ideas? Would be appreciated.


I am not even shown that I can download anything. Are these startup problems, or should I contact support?

The film has to wait anyway, the wife is on the phone ...


----------



## MartinH.

Henu said:


> Any ideas? Would be appreciated.


You mean other than "email the support team" ?


----------



## Henu

Yes, because I was kinda thinking that maybe there's a workaround which I hadn't realized yet.

Emailed the support now, because obviously it's completely normal that you have one single option to press "yes" to download your purchase and dear sweet lord if you choose to do it five minutes later you're fucked.

Yes, I'm pissed. Sue me. Anyway, don't be like me but download the whole shit at once unless you want extra trouble.


----------



## Soundbed

chapbot said:


> Since the LASS solo violin/cello are not as good as the solo violin/cello in MSS (viola is the same) I wonder how the MSS solos would work as first as first chairs for LASS3?


The LASS 3 Viola sounds better in LASS 3 than it does in MSS, for me, first reactions playing them back to back today. In other words, the implementation in MSS got better when they implemented it in LASS 3. Not sure I have time to describe exactly how it's different or why I like it better but yeah ... I like the LASS FC Viola better than (ostensibly the same recordings) as implemented in MSS FC [LASS] Viola.


----------



## Soundbed

Henu said:


> Ok, now this is just so fun.
> 
> I was under the impression that LASS3 uses the samples from LASS2.5 (+LS) so I installed only the patches first. Well, it doesn't. And by downloading the patches, I just lost my option to download the samples because the fucking download center now thinks that I have already used my generous one (1) download.
> 
> Any ideas? Would be appreciated.


The request Full Reinstall option is in the installer.


----------



## Henu

Yep, did that. And lo and behold, they got back to me in five minutes with a reset. What they fail in that download system they certainly make up with their customer support! I'm already downloading as we speak. This time, the right amount of files. :D


----------



## Soundbed

Henu said:


> Yep, did that. And lo and behold, they got back to me in five minutes with a reset. What they fail in that download system they certainly make up with their customer support! I'm already downloading as we speak. This time, the right amount of files. :D


Glad you got it sorted!


chapbot said:


> Since the LASS solo violin/cello are not as good as the solo violin/cello in MSS (viola is the same) I wonder how the MSS solos would work as first as first chairs for LASS3?


Sorry I believe @Casiquire and I both answered a different question than you asked. I would definitely trying the MSS FC Cello and Violin as FC to LASS 3, yes. I haven't tried it and with Black Friday all the possible experiments are piling up very quickly but I think the LASS 3 Viola + MSS Violin and Cello would make great First Chairs to Lass 3 if you have both packages. Not sure which Bass might sound better, as I've spent zero minutes with the Lass 3 FC Bass so far.


----------



## novaburst

Gerbil said:


> Have you ever played in a professional orchestra? When the chemistry isn’t right it can be a seething warzone!


Yes there is bickering and fighting and some times bad feelings but its kind of done in a family sort of way then suddenly every one are friends again,


----------



## Windbag

Henu said:


> What they fail in that download system they certainly make up with their customer support!


I haven't needed it some time but their support has always made me glad to have purchased from...like real human beings. Good people.

As a LASS owner that skipped MSS, this combo of articulation management without the patch juggling and the timing issues that look-ahead purports to solve go a long way toward eliminating my gripe list. Love to see this attention paid to the (relatively) older libraries


----------



## X-Bassist

I wish it had multiple mics, the mixes rarely work out for me. But I'm picky. I guess I'm saving $399.


----------



## Duncan Krummel

I’ll just chime in here to say that I was involved with beta testing for LASS 3, and one of my biggest discoveries was just how well LASS 3 blends with MSS. Quoting from an email correspondence with Andrew and Sebastian:



> Despite their nearly identical section sizes, LASS definitely achieves a more chamber-esque sound, perhaps due to the microphone placements? MSS’ larger sound profile has a wonderful hugging effect on LASS. I especially noticed this on the sordinos. MSS’ sordinos lack that middle of the spectrum, which I’d expect from a true con sord. LASS, however, somehow preserves this (at least with the Airy Sordinos profile) and - especially in the demo I worked on - fills up the empty space left by MSS.


LASS 3 is also incredibly versatile. I do have LASS 2.5 Full, but never quite got around to setting it up or messing around with it much outside of a few cursory tests. Don’t get me wrong, I really liked the edgier sound by default, but the workflow just didn’t connect with me.

This new engine, on the other hand, is much more intuitive and elegant. The fact that - with both LASS and MSS now sporting look ahead - it’s stupidly easy to just copy parts around. Not to mention that, with the immense amount of timbral variations between 2 parts per section in MSS and 3 parts per section in LASS, you can effectively have a 112 piece string ensemble with 5 divis per section, a full compliment of soloists with 2 for violin and cello (and, if made timbrally unique possible 2 violas), that covers everything from a small chamber ensemble up to a bloody Wagnerian or Mahlerian symphonic force.

Regarding legatos in LASS 3, the reworking of the system similar to that of MSS is something that I think puts these libraries at the top of most else (having received free products from AudioBro, this might sound sort of shill-y, but I want to stress the authenticity of my feelings here). At least compared to the other libraries I own or have tried, these two libraries just take so much less effort to work with. That may also be due in part to my tendency to need to spend more time mixing than writing, but I’d rather just have the music work more or less without a lot of fiddling, so I can focus more time on the arduous mixing.


----------



## Lex

Wow what a nice surprise! One of my all time favorites gets an upgrade. 
Will I get to keep my LASS 1.5 where it is and have LASS 3 as a new library? Can I use both at the same time?

alex


----------



## Duncan Krummel

Lex said:


> Wow what a nice surprise! One of my all time favorites gets an upgrade.
> Will I get to keep my LASS 1.5 where it is and have LASS 3 as a new library? Can I use both at the same time?
> 
> alex


Yes, LASS 3 is all new NKIs.


----------



## muziksculp

Lex said:


> Will I get to keep my LASS 1.5 where it is and have LASS 3 as a new library? Can I use both at the same time?


I think so, because you get a new License Number for LASS 3 for Native Access.


----------



## Grizzlymv

Studio E said:


> Just tried it in LASS 3. It does indeed work.


damn. that's going to be a costly answer...


----------



## chapbot

Soundbed said:


> Glad you got it sorted!
> 
> Sorry I believe @Casiquire and I both answered a different question than you asked. I would definitely trying the MSS FC Cello and Violin as FC to LASS 3, yes. I haven't tried it and with Black Friday all the possible experiments are piling up very quickly but I think the LASS 3 Viola + MSS Violin and Cello would make great First Chairs to Lass 3 if you have both packages. Not sure which Bass might sound better, as I've spent zero minutes with the Lass 3 FC Bass so far.


Oh goody, maybe I'll get some use out of my MSS purchase after all 😂


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

I wonder how the new legato compare to the pixel trick?


----------



## borisb2

Instant buy (upgrade from 2.5 Full).. downloaded and installed - all went smoothly.

Love the new GUI (matching MSS) and way simpler worklow (controlling Divisi sections with CC-mixer, new legato-controls, articulation-workflow etc) .. really nice.

Just dont expect LASS suddenly turning into CSS or something. LASS stays LASS, keeping its bright and rosin character… but, if you learned how to tame the beast you now got a golden cage .. so to speak 😋


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I wonder how the new legato compare to the pixel trick?


It should be roughly identical just with some more control. The sample content is identical so I don't see why anything would be different.


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

Casiquire said:


> It should be roughly identical just with some more control. The sample content is identical so I don't see why anything would be different.


Look through the lass 3 vid, and you will see the differences…. The slower attack possibility does f.e. add something the 2.5 legatos didn’t have….


----------



## Soundbed

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Look through the lass 3 vid, and you will see the differences…. The slower attack possibility does f.e. add something the 2.5 legatos didn’t have….


They're talking about the pixelpoet trick, an unofficial thing described here:






Pixelpoet Trick – Legato Enhancer for Kontakt Libraries


Hi all, some already know my legato trick I've done for LASS. In a nutshell: The trick elongates the legato transitions and make them more "expressive", therefore introduces some delay. Other libraries the trick is working with so far (Thanks to all the testers!): Berlin Brass Berlin Strings...




vi-control.net


----------



## Per Boysen

I purchased the full upgrade, received my receipt of payment but unfortunately, the AudioBro Download Center shows that my "account is blocked". I sent in a request to have my account unblocked and hope that it will be fixed until tomorrow (bedtime now in my time zone).

_EDIT: Support fixed it while I was asleep. On my way to the shower now (hail AB!), looking forward to breakfast with LASS3 soon._


----------



## Soundbed

Anybody have some midi they want me to run through lass3? I have 10 minutes before we go get a tree. lol


----------



## Lex

Duncan Krummel said:


> Yes, LASS 3 is all new NKIs.


Super! Thanks!


----------



## ZeeCount

Per Boysen said:


> I purchased the full upgrade, received my receipt of payment but unfortunately, the AudioBro Download Center shows that my "account is blocked". I sent in a request to have my account unblocked and hope that it will be fixed until tomorrow (bedtime now in my time zone).


Same thing happened to me. I logged into the ARC yesterday fine, just purchased LASS 3, and now it's saying my account is blocked.

EDIT: And support has already fixed it.

"Sorry for the issue logging in — give it another shot now."


----------



## biomuse

In the FC bass, there are a few growing pains here and there: some legato connections have audible previous note ends on auto transition. It will be worked out by Audiobro for sure (they have a track record of doing that), but don't be surprised if you need to tweak a few legato transitions manually for now.

When I was applying the Pixelpoet trick manually to 2.5, I definitely noticed that not 100% of the legati at full sample length are "clean" for use. Very surmountable problem, but the update was released this morning so there's a hiccup or two.


----------



## tomhartmanmusic

LHall said:


> I disagree profoundly. LASS is definitely NOT a scam. And unless you're being sarcastic, these comments are nearly defamatory.
> 
> I'm a professional musician who has been making a living using primarily LASS since it arrived on the scene. I've done scoring for several major artists who love the sound. I've had respected symphony players ask where I recorded the live strings. I've had mastering engineers who didn't quite believe they were virtual.
> 
> Everyone's entitled to their opinion of course. But if you can't make LASS sound good, it's because you are expecting someone else to do all the work for you.


Yes, I'm older, and in the 70s and 80s did many live sessions with strings, and LASS sounds the most like those sessions of any, at least most of the time.


----------



## chapbot

FYI website is slow to load, then crashes when you purchase. Keep trying, I finally got it to place the order after about 3 checkout crashes. Don't give up hope!!


----------



## chlady

chapbot said:


> FYI website is slow to load, then crashes when you purchase. Keep trying, I finally got it to place the order after about 3 checkout crashes. Don't give up hope!!


Or wait a day or two when the flood gates close. LASS 3 will still be there then.


----------



## AndyP

There seemed to be some problems with the activation of my license, but the problem was quickly solved after I contacted support. Now the installation is running, only 50% left and I can try LASS 3.

Big thanks to the Audiobro for the quick response and fixing the problem!


----------



## chapbot

chlady said:


> Or wait a day or two when the flood gates close. LASS 3 will still be there then.


The world may be plunged into an apocolypse in a day or two. Will LASS 3 be there then? Probably not, so I'll download it today and enjoy it whilst I can!


----------



## chlady

chapbot said:


> The world may be plunged into an apocolypse in a day or two. Will LASS 3 be there then? Probably not, so I'll download it today and enjoy it whilst I can!


Well enjoy while what's left of the planet


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Site was slow, but my purchase went through fine - and the downloads have been quite speedy.


----------



## alcorey

On my second attempt now  1st one crashed at 22.04 GB -- looks like the total should be 22.55 GB
Why does it have to go almost all the way and then crash????

And it's slow ..........


----------



## AndyP

The installation is stuck for me. Maybe it was because of the VPN. I turned it off and now my account is blocked.

I also arrived at the fourth package, after about 2 hours. That does not seem to be very stable at the moment.


----------



## chapbot

I spoke too soon! This is a pain in the neck. Library download keeps hanging. I stop it, resume it, stop it, resume it. Nothing. Quit the progam, relaunched, now my one download is used up and have to get customer service to give me another download. Few things irk me more than convoluted download systems.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Look through the lass 3 vid, and you will see the differences…. The slower attack possibility does f.e. add something the 2.5 legatos didn’t have….


Is it a new recording?


----------



## AndyP

chapbot said:


> I spoke too soon! This is a pain in the neck. Library download keeps hanging. I stop it, resume it, stop it, resume it. Nothing. Quit the progam, relaunched, now my one download is used up and have to get customer service to give me another download. Few things irk me more than convoluted download systems.


Same here.


----------



## Casiquire

AndyP said:


> The installation is stuck for me. Maybe it was because of the VPN. I turned it off and now my account is blocked.
> 
> I also arrived at the fourth package, after about 2 hours. That does not seem to be very stable at the moment.


I use a VPN and it has caused me trouble with Audiobro too. I've learned to just disable it before doing anything with them


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Is it a new recording?


No, it's basically the Pixelpoet trick but in the UI now


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Casiquire said:


> No, it's basically the Pixelpoet trick but in the UI now


Ok Thanks.


----------



## chapbot

As others have mentioned, customer service was on it and responsive, got the download reset. Had no problem downloading this time (maybe everybody was eating dinner and traffic was lower lol?)

If you are a LASS fan (as I am) you MUST get this update. It's the same sound but refined with superior programming. I stopped using LASS a few years ago as it felt a little dog-eared compared to the latest and greatest. With the update I'm looking forward to getting it back in my template.


----------



## alcorey

You really have to applaud Audiobro - Andrew and Sebastian - they are an extremely dedicated duo when it comes to customer service (think Batman & Robin!) 
they've been working to solve my problems (and those of many others) tirelessly since early a.m. - it was 7:00 p.m. when Andrew solved my issues after almost 20 emails throughout the day! And they're still at it - who knows when they'll call it a night - but it probably won't be until there are no more emails to answer. I wished I could do something to help.........so......I sent my girl over - you'll be in good hands now


----------



## AndyP

My download was reseted, but my account is still blocked ... since they either have not read the whole mail, or who used VPN the first time, and then no longer remains blocked?

This is now the third mail to support, which is well above average for the first 24 hours. 

At some point, the blockade will also be out, and then I will hopefully find out whether LASS sounds as I hope it will, or whether I will look on the reports of other users to the end of my days.


----------



## muk

Would anybody be kind enough to share a short example showing the brightness control in action? A short phrase for first violins, and one for cello. First played with the brigthness knob disengaged. Then the same phrase played with reduced brightness using. Would be very helpful and much appreciated.


----------



## alcorey

AndyP said:


> My download was reseted, but my account is still blocked ... since they either have not read the whole mail, or who used VPN the first time, and then no longer remains blocked?
> 
> This is now the third mail to support, which is well above average for the first 24 hours.
> 
> At some point, the blockade will also be out, and then I will hopefully find out whether LASS sounds as I hope it will, or whether I will look on the reports of other users to the end of my days.


Sorry to hear you're having this much difficulty - are you contacting them through [email protected]?
They were constantly in touch with me throughout the day (not immediately after I emailed them but within a reasonable time frame) hope things get resolved for you soon enough


----------



## AndyP

alcorey said:


> Sorry to hear you're having this much difficulty - are you contacting them through [email protected]?
> They were constantly in touch with me throughout the day (not immediately after I emailed them but within a reasonable time frame) hope things get resolved for you soon enough


I am not worried that they will get it sorted out, they have written back in adequate time every time.
After I woke up and saw the mail I was looking forward to continue the installation and found out that I am still locked out (wuhääää ).

Imagine it's Christmas, the presents are under the tree, everyone is unwrapping the presents, only your present has a lock on it and the key is not there. That is the sheer horror for every child (which I somehow still am).
So far key is there someone has to comfort me, take care of me, give me chocolate and other lucky charms ... 

So the anticipation remains a little longer, is also a good exercise in patience. Ommmmm ...


----------



## alcorey

AndyP said:


> I am not worried that they will get it sorted out, they have written back in adequate time every time.
> After I woke up and saw the mail I was looking forward to continue the installation and found out that I am still locked out (wuhääää ).
> 
> Imagine it's Christmas, the presents are under the tree, everyone is unwrapping the presents, only your present has a lock on it and the key is not there. That is the sheer horror for every child (which I somehow still am).
> So far key is there someone has to comfort me, take care of me, give me chocolate and other lucky charms ...
> 
> So the anticipation remains a little longer, is also a good exercise in patience. Ommmmm ...


That is so funny because when I was 11 years old my 3 sisters had many presents under the tree but none for me (big tears) but when all the distribution was done, everyone noticed that I had no gifts and things grew silent. Well, my father left the room and everyone else was sort of stopped in time like the Twilight Zone - but a minute or so later he comes back into the room with a Fender Super Reverb amp, for me.............. wow.... biggest tears I ever shed - true story, I still choke up remembering that day


----------



## AndyP

alcorey said:


> That is so funny because when I was 11 years old my 3 sisters had many presents under the tree but none for me (big tears) but when all the distribution was done, everyone noticed that I had no gifts and things grew silent. Well, my father left the room and everyone else was sort of stopped in time like the Twilight Zone - but a minute or so later he comes back into the room with a Fender Super Reverb amp, for me.............. wow.... biggest tears I ever shed - true story, I still choke up remembering that day


This is sooo mean at first, but the joy afterwards is all the greater. You will never forget that and actually those are the best gifts. This is how tears of sadness turn into tears of joy. Beautiful!


----------



## Gerbil

Ok, I completely retract anything I've said about LASS in the past. I've just spent a very pleasant couple of hours loading it back on my computer and playing around. It's much better and more versatile than I remember and I'm sort of kicking myself for confining it to storage for the past however many years. I'll definitely update.


----------



## Noc

I already have LASS 2.5, and I don’t really plan on using LASS 3 anytime particularly soon (largely because I’d have to create a sound set for it to integrate well with Sibelius, which is a lotta work) … but you better believe that I wasn’t gonna let that $99 upgrade price pass me by.

After all, once it’s yours, you can download it whenever you want, right? Future-Me will be happy to have it (and not have to pay full price first) once I decide to give it a try.


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

muk said:


> Would anybody be kind enough to share a short example showing the brightness control in action? A short phrase for first violins, and one for cello. First played with the brigthness knob disengaged. Then the same phrase played with reduced brightness using. Would be very helpful and much appreciated.


If it installs well, and it works well I can give you an example Muk.

In latest stage of downloading now….

In the meantime others may already have provided an example 

I have learned a good eq setup from another member here, which I will most likely be using on lass3 as well….that might be useful too….and/or the various soundcolour settings might be something that suits your needs..?


----------



## Henu

Basses B pizzicato (+Violas C pizz) is heavily borked. Seems to have some sort of envelope mistake and there is basically no sustain+release at all. It sounds like Casio boomwhackers.  Gotta send a bug report when I have more time!


----------



## jonnybutter

AndyP said:


> I am now a LASS 3 owner. However, it seems to take a little longer with the registration, until now no mail came that my account was activated. I can log in to AB Downloader, but there is still no library displayed that I can download. Login to User Control Panel is pending as well.
> 
> However, I'm not in a hurry right now and need to watch a movie with my beloved. Let's see if I can concentrate on the movie ...
> 
> Edit: Maybe I'm too early and the library is not ready for download yet. Have not considered the time ... Noon has just dawned.


Yes, good to keep in mind that Audiobro is more/less just two people. 
Check the audiobro forum for answers. If there isn’t one, ask - the two of them monitor posts there pretty assiduously. If you have an account problem, let them know and they wil fix it. I had been a LASS owner for many years, and couldn’t log into my long-existing account when MSS came out. They fixed it in less than an hour.

I have not put my order in because I’m busy with production, but I am looking forward to it! It should be, in the words of the late Guy Clark, the ‘second best hundred dollars I ever spent’. 😂 Cheers


----------



## Duncan Krummel

muk said:


> Would anybody be kind enough to share a short example showing the brightness control in action? A short phrase for first violins, and one for cello. First played with the brigthness knob disengaged. Then the same phrase played with reduced brightness using. Would be very helpful and much appreciated.


Hey muk, here's a demonstration of the brightness dial on both the full sections of Violins I and Celli:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ktp9q66hu3356s/LASS%203%20Brightness.mov?dl=0
First time through is with very slightly edited default patches (I resaved them to include lookahead, dynamic smoothing, and enabled automatic legato offset mode), second time through loads the "LASS w/ verb" mixer preset.


----------



## AndyP

LASS3 is now installed (thanks to support) and I like the sound! Sounds partly already a bit out of tune, but somehow I like that because I get so a bit Sakamoto style of sound and I find that super charming.
The more intimate sound, yes so I would actually call it, more chamber character, is exactly what I was hoping for. 
With a pinch of Seventh Heaven it also sounds neat.


----------



## muk

Thank you @Silence-is-Golden!

Fantastic, thank you Duncan! That's exactly what I was looking for. The brightness knob works pretty well, actually. When turned to the left I quite like the sound.


----------



## Casiquire

Noc said:


> I already have LASS 2.5, and I don’t really plan on using LASS 3 anytime particularly soon (largely because I’d have to create a sound set for it to integrate well with Sibelius, which is a lotta work) … but you better believe that I wasn’t gonna let that $99 upgrade price pass me by.
> 
> After all, once it’s yours, you can download it whenever you want, right? Future-Me will be happy to have it (and not have to pay full price first) once I decide to give it a try.


Am i understanding correctly that those upgrade prices are permanent? Or is that wrong?


----------



## AndyP

I love the sound and the UI. Very playable and great features. Well done Audiobro´s!


----------



## Evans

*Side note for MSS-only owners:* I was poking around on the Audiobro site for info on additional loyalty pricing, and that statement on the LASS page is now gone. There yesterday, gone today.

That is, there will be no discount (at this time) on LASS 3 for people who own MSS (or MSB, Genesis, etc. for that matter, as we see with MSS). Verified by Audiobro on their forum.


----------



## Noc

Casiquire said:


> Am i understanding correctly that those upgrade prices are permanent? Or is that wrong?


If you’re referring to the $99 loyalty pricing (for LASS for folks who previously bought LASS 1/2 Full + Legato Sordino), I would _assume_ that is a permanent discount, but I don’t know for certain; I suggest asking @dxmachina for confirmation. Possibly it’s also influenced by the Black Friday sale; I don’t know.

Still, doesn’t hurt to strike whilst the iron’s hot, so to speak, just to be safe. If you can swing it, of course.


----------



## Scalms

Has the sound/tone changed from LASS2 to LASS3? perhaps processed differently?


----------



## Casiquire

Scalms said:


> Has the sound/tone changed from LASS2 to LASS3? perhaps processed differently?


From what the team has told me, not at all. Though things will "sound better" if you put the new player into your old projects and slow the legatos plus lookahead so you get the clearer performance. But the samples are the same and sound the same


----------



## Henu

There's definitely some more room ER (didn't have time yet to dive deeper) in my opinion in the patches.

Here's a complete non-polished pisstake noodling around with ripping off existing stuff by memory without any proper arrangement but just to hear how close the sound is to the one it reminded me of. (Mists of Pandaria- OST from World of Warcraft.)

No processing, no sound presets, straight out of the box using the main patches:


----------



## Henu

Also, one thing I notice is that it takes a lifetime for Cubase to shut down if you're having the project open more than 20-30 minutes.

Even without any plugins quitting Cubase takes _way_ more time than usual, probably because of not releasing RAM properly. Spitfire's SSS and SSB are also doing the same so it's easily narrowed down to certain libraries in Kontakt and it's a bit annoying that LASS 3 seems to join the club here. Anyone else noticing the same?


----------



## givemenoughrope

Is $99 the BF loyalty price or just the loyalty price? (bc it's Sat)

How is CPU in Kontakt vs 2.5?


----------



## chapbot

Scalms said:


> Has the sound/tone changed from LASS2 to LASS3? perhaps processed differently?


It's the same sound but when the patches are loaded I noticed it has a default EQ that absolutely enhances it. You can toggle it on and off to hear the difference. So I noticed it did sound better than my old LASS but I think that's just this setting. With this EQ and the new programming it feels like a brand new library and I'm giddy ♥️


----------



## Henu

Yep, I noticed the same when comparing it with 2.5. The default patch is actually quite good compared to 2.5 and I could easily use it "as is". In fact, I like it more than Bat Man now, haha!

One thing that is driving me crazy is the certain boxiness and mud in the 200-400 area which seems impossible to tame in group EQ. Still need to investigate it a bit more, maybe EQ:ing some individual instruments would give me better results. 

Oh, and even though I'm supposed to be a professional mixing engineer, I can't put these into a space to save my life. The recorded ER's are messing the artificial ER's, resulting into a mushy mess with no transients and using only tails it don't seem give enough space. I need some weird setup where there's not much ER at all, a bloomy short room splash and a wide, clear space for the tail... but the actual room is hell to build. Well, I know what I'm gonna do tomorrow when my kids let me.


----------



## tritonely

Henu said:


> Also, one thing I notice is that it takes a lifetime for Cubase to shut down if you're having the project open more than 20-30 minutes.
> 
> Even without any plugins quitting Cubase takes _way_ more time than usual, probably because of not releasing RAM properly. Spitfire's SSS and SSB are also doing the same so it's easily narrowed down to certain libraries in Kontakt and it's a bit annoying that LASS 3 seems to join the club here. Anyone else noticing the same?


I'm not sure it's in the same league, but I also have some mysterious RAM usage in Cubase with LASS 3. Made a template with all groups (full, A, B, C and FC) seperate, which is in the taskbar around 10GB. I purge all Kontakt instances where Kontakt says every instace is 0GB. Taskbar still says 10GB. When I close the template and begin a project with this template while loading the purge Kontakts, it's loading still 10GB in my RAM. After 10+ minutes it says 7Gb, and one time I had made it to 5 GB. Never noticed this with other Kontakt instruments.


----------



## jcrosby

AndyP said:


> LASS3 is now installed (thanks to support) and I like the sound! Sounds partly already a bit out of tune, but somehow I like that because I get so a bit Sakamoto style of sound and I find that super charming.
> The more intimate sound, yes so I would actually call it, more chamber character, is exactly what I was hoping for.
> With a pinch of Seventh Heaven it also sounds neat.


I actually like this about it as well. If you use the 1st chairs to layer with another library it actually sounds closer to what you'd get by overdubbing a live player... Just tuck it in a little so it doesn't stick out at you and it adds an imperfection that I actually really appreciate.

Someone previously described LASS as a _detail brush_ and this is indeed why I love it... It adds detail and focus to just about anything you layer it with, not to mention that it's legatos are pretty great.


----------



## Fidelity

jcrosby said:


> I actually like this about it as well. If you use the 1st chairs to layer with another library it actually sounds closer to what you'd get by overdubbing a live player... Just tuck it in a little so it doesn't stick out at you and it adds an imperfection that I actually really appreciate.
> 
> Someone previously described LASS as a _detail brush_ and this is indeed why I love it... It adds detail and focus to just about anything you layer it with, not to mention that it's legatos are pretty great.


I'd say the polyphonic legato is the biggest upgrade in terms of playability at least from LASS lite. Now in the same league as VSL (the ostinato engine doesn't hurt either).


----------



## biggiantcircles

Probably already been asked in this thread, but I'm too lazy to dig through the whole thing so I'll just ask.

If I buy MSS is it even worth upgrading LASS to 3? (I currently have v2). I've seen the comparison charts, seems MSS is far more comprehensive. Are the tonalities of the libs completely different? What's the draw for LASS3 _in addition_ to MSS?


----------



## Casiquire

biggiantcircles said:


> Probably already been asked in this thread, but I'm too lazy to dig through the whole thing so I'll just ask.
> 
> If I buy MSS is it even worth upgrading LASS to 3? (I currently have v2). I've seen the comparison charts, seems MSS is far more comprehensive. Are the tonalities of the libs completely different? What's the draw for LASS3 _in addition_ to MSS?


Yes the tonalities are entirely different. I guess the question to ask is, do you intend to use LASS for example for adding detail to other libraries like MSS, and would it be helpful to have them in the same interface and responding in the same ways? If you're thinking yes then it's worth upgrading especially given the cost is so low and the upgrade seems well received


----------



## samplin

HI,

A good question I have both
I just downloaded LASS 3... I love it ! It is a very different sound to MSS. I love working with Lass 2 but it was sometimes frustrating to get everything working together, but always loved the results.
I downloaded LASS 3 and immediately started playing and it feels great.
I think if you like LASS 2 sound, then yes get it without hesitation.
If you don't really use it, then stick with what you have.

Good Luck

M


----------



## biggiantcircles

ok that's good enough for me, I got 'em both!


----------



## ag75

I upgraded from 2.5 to 3. Do I need to download all the samples again?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

ag75 said:


> I upgraded from 2.5 to 3. Do I need to download all the samples again?


Yes!


----------



## samplin

ag75 said:


> I upgraded from 2.5 to 3. Do I need to download all the samples again?


Audio bro site

, to be clear, LASS 3 is a newly encoded library that will not lad LASS 2 samples. LASS 3 has a new library ID (technical NI jargon) meaning that LASS 3 patches will only read LASS 3 Samples. And LASS 2 patches won't be able to read LASS 3 samples. For that reason, we re-encoded ALL the LASS 2.5 patches and called them LASS Legacy patches that WILL work with LASS 3 samples. 

That said, if you have projects in a template from LASS 2, I would keep LASS 2 on your drives until you finish your projects. This way they will just load and you will not have to search for anything or replace patches that you may have saved in a specific state.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

samplin said:


> Audio bro site
> For that reason, we re-encoded ALL the LASS 2.5 patches and called them LASS Legacy patches that WILL work with LASS 3 samples.


That part got me a bit confused.


----------



## samplin

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> That part got me a bit confused.


yes, it may be a typo, but I downloaded samples and patches and it works great and not very large... Even if they said it could work, I would download the samples anyway so that theres no weirdness..


----------



## AndyP

jcrosby said:


> I actually like this about it as well. If you use the 1st chairs to layer with another library it actually sounds closer to what you'd get by overdubbing a live player... Just tuck it in a little so it doesn't stick out at you and it adds an imperfection that I actually really appreciate.
> 
> Someone previously described LASS as a _detail brush_ and this is indeed why I love it... It adds detail and focus to just about anything you layer it with, not to mention that it's legatos are pretty great.


Yesterday I layered LASS 3 with Century Strings Normal and Sordino.
Both libraries have polyphonic legato and they harmonize very well. 
Unfortunately I can't set the threshold for portamento in Century Strings (at least I don't know where). If that would also work, this would be my dream combination.
LASS adds an extra dose of life and that's great. 
Today I'm going to layer LASS with some other libraries, that actually seems to be a big plus of LASS.

And I like the FC too, especially Cello and Violin. The vibrato has the right mix.


----------



## Guido Negraszus

I think it's great that Audiobro keeps updating LASS. I still use it. However, I think that $99 for the upgrade is not justified. In fact, I think it's disloyal towards long-term customers. I paid $1200 for the original release, $250 (I think) for SD, and $99 for the 2.0 upgrade. If there was new content I could be convinced but in the end, it's just a new GUI. I think ProjectSam does set the standard here. I paid $1800 for Symphobia in 2009 and every update since was free incl. the coming one with even new multis. Anyway, just my opinion.


----------



## Per Boysen

My upgrade purchase went fine, and so did the download. But I have not received a serial number, which is needed for Native Access to fulfill installation into Kontakt. Any advice on how to find the serial?


----------



## ansthenia

Per Boysen said:


> My upgrade purchase went fine, and so did the download. But I have not received a serial number, which is needed for Native Access to fulfill installation into Kontakt. Any advice on how to find the serial?


I found it on the receipt from audiobro in my emails.


----------



## Per Boysen

ansthenia said:


> I found it on the receipt from audiobro in my emails.


Ok, thanks. That's been the procedure with all my previous AB purchases. But with this LASS#3 upgrade, I have not received emails from AB, only the PayPal receipt. Now when I know they still use serials I can wait by my inbox for it. No big deal, I have plenty of other tasks to put time into.


----------



## AndyP

Per Boysen said:


> Ok, thanks. That's been the procedure with all my previous AB purchases. But with this LASS#3 upgrade, I have not received emails from AB, only the PayPal receipt. Now when I know they still use serials I can wait by my inbox for it. No big deal, I have plenty of other tasks to put time into.


Check your Native Instruments account, my serial number is there in the list.


----------



## Per Boysen

AndyP said:


> Check your Native Instruments account, my serial number is there in the list.


Thanks, Andy. Well, my LASS2.5 serial is there but for this new purchase, I think I must first receive the serial from AudioBro and type it in either at the NI account or through the Native Access.


----------



## Henu

Ok, this hanging at Cubase exit is really starting to get on my nerves.

40 minutes of working with the project open and active (only 5 tracks of strings and various tried-and tested plugins which certainly aren't causing any problems) and Cubase has been trying to close now for almost 10 minutes. This is easily the worst offender of all the libraries I have!

EDIT: Finally closed after 12 minutes. Really annoying, to say the least.
EDIT 2: Definitely RAM. Purging the instrument first and then disabling it (prolly purging would already be enough) closes Cubase instantly. Disabling take a bit more time than usual, but usually less than 15 seconds per instrument.


----------



## muziksculp

Per Boysen said:


> Thanks, Andy. Well, my LASS2.5 serial is there but for this new purchase, I think I must first receive the serial from AudioBro and type it in either at the NI account or through the Native Access.


I upgraded from LASS 2.5 to LASS 3, AudioBro emailed me a receipt of the purchase, and in small font, towards the bottom of the email, there was the serial number of LASS 3 that I need to register at Native Access. The serial number was in very small font, so it's easy to miss it. 

If you didn't receive the receipt of purchase email from LASS 3, you should email them to re-email it to you, or check your spam folder.


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> That part got me a bit confused.


I believe they mean that they included all the old multis and things as legacy patches for people who want to use them in LASS3 with the new interface. My understanding is they made them optional downloads


----------



## Tralen

alcorey said:


> What happens in Brazil should stay in Brazil


What on Earth do you mean by this?


----------



## Noeticus

Guido Negraszus said:


> I think it's great that Audiobro keeps updating LASS. I still use it. However, I think that $99 for the upgrade is not justified. In fact, I think it's disloyal towards long-term customers. I paid $1200 for the original release, $250 (I think) for SD, and $99 for the 2.0 upgrade. If there was new content I could be convinced but in the end, it's just a new GUI. I think ProjectSam does set the standard here. I paid $1800 for Symphobia in 2009 and every update since was free incl. the coming one with even new multis. Anyway, just my opinion.


I was happy to pay the $99 just for the Detune Knob.

Well, and the new engine.


----------



## Per Boysen

muziksculp said:


> I upgraded from LASS 2.5 to LASS 3, AudioBro emailed me a receipt of the purchase, ///


Thanks. This happened also to me, finally... 30 hours after my purchase. For reasons unknown to me, the email was delayed. I've got it up and running now  Very happy with the attached Cubase expression maps too. Saves me hours of boring hacking.


----------



## LondonMike

ALittleNightMusic said:


> For MSS "lag", adjust the transition speed knob all the way up - and make sure you have lookahead on plus set your track delay to -400ms.


Thanks, I’ll try that!


----------



## chapbot

Guido Negraszus said:


> I think it's great that Audiobro keeps updating LASS. I still use it. However, I think that $99 for the upgrade is not justified. In fact, I think it's disloyal towards long-term customers. I paid $1200 for the original release, $250 (I think) for SD, and $99 for the 2.0 upgrade. If there was new content I could be convinced but in the end, it's just a new GUI. I think ProjectSam does set the standard here. I paid $1800 for Symphobia in 2009 and every update since was free incl. the coming one with even new multis. Anyway, just my opinion.


It is most definitely NOT just a GUI update lololol


----------



## chapbot

It has been assumed that MSS solo violin and cello are superior to the LASS counterparts. Is that still the case with LASS 3? Somebody said the new viola is even better than MSS.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> It is most definitely NOT just a GUI update lololol


Yup. 

Here is the list of What's New in LASS 3, and as you can see, it's not just a new GUI  

Now has “Look Ahead” – saving you from tedious MIDI nudging
Newly remapped and integrated into our new orchestral engine
Now includes Legato Sordino (previously an optional addition)
Greater Legato range and flexibility (more exposed transitions for cleaner Legatos)
Independent real-time control of Legato, Portamento, and Glissando speeds
All section divisis integrated on the same patch (no more need for multis)
Integrated polyphonic Legato (no more need for multis)
Integrated Stage and Color profiles (no more need for multis)
Same note rebow – integrated into new patches and auto divisi aware
Marcatos – 2 different types of marcatos at all dynamics
Advanced Key Switching – Keyswitch with keys, CCs, and booleans
All-in-one master patches (no more need to load different patches per articulations)
Full NKS integration (for NI’s hardware)
Cubase, Logic, Performer, Reaper, and Studio One Expression Maps
Advanced RAM handling via our new engine
Advanced next-generation ART (Auto Rhythm Tools) that control Staccato and Spiccato simultaneously
Key Switchable Articulations, Tonalities and Divisi Ensemble Settings
Easier and improved instrument placement on Stage
Programmable Envelopes for Sustains
Integrated Modulators for Mixer FX controls


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Casiquire said:


> I believe they mean that they included all the old multis and things as legacy patches for people who want to use them in LASS3 with the new interface. My understanding is they made them optional downloads


Thanks.


----------



## Duncan Krummel

chapbot said:


> It has been assumed that MSS solo violin and cello are superior to the LASS counterparts. Is that still the case with LASS 3? Somebody said the new viola is even better than MSS.


Initial thoughts: MSS solo strings are clearly designed for MSS, and ditto for LASS. With that said, the more expressive performance of the LASS samples make them actually more useable as solo strings, IMO. Maybe not for extended solos, but they can certainly be used as a ‘solo section during an ensemble piece’ very effectively. Plus you have a solo double bass which is VERY nice to have.


----------



## AndyP

The learning curve for LASS 3 is definitely there. It took me a while to get to grips with the detuning until I started playing around with the Humization. By default it sounds very out of tune, but if I turn it off, or adjust the values down significantly, it doesn't sound so out of tune anymore.
It's funny that I can simulate a bad amateur string orchestra with this feature, which can have its charm here and there. But I think I will use this feature only very sparingly, unless I layer with another library where this effect makes more sense. Standalone it can sound very strange.

In general I am very fond of the features. Only with the short articulations I'm still struggling, so switching from spiccato to staccato and marcato.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Downloading now

For those 2.5 users who have already dug into 3, is there any reason to keep 2.5 around for future projects? Any special sauce? Just curious. Going to compare both once 3 is installed.


----------



## jcrosby

AndyP said:


> The learning curve for LASS 3 is definitely there. It took me a while to get to grips with the detuning until I started playing around with the Humization. By default it sounds very out of tune, but if I turn it off, or adjust the values down significantly, it doesn't sound so out of tune anymore.
> It's funny that I can simulate a bad amateur string orchestra with this feature, which can have its charm here and there. But I think I will use this feature only very sparingly, unless I layer with another library where this effect makes more sense. Standalone it can sound very strange.
> 
> In general I am very fond of the features. Only with the short articulations I'm still struggling, so switching from spiccato to staccato and marcato.


If you mean the detune button and submenu it's intended for creating clusters, dissonance, detuned tension passages, etc. I've been playing with it for the past few hours and think it's pretty awesome, and makes LASS just that much more versatile and a bargain even at full price.


----------



## AndyP

jcrosby said:


> If you mean the detune button and submenu it's intended for creating clusters, dissonance, detuned tension passages, etc. I've been playing with it for the past few hours and think it's pretty awesome, and makes LASS just that much more versatile and a bargain even at full price.


No, I mean the humanization function under ensemble with which the divisi can be detuned against each other. There you can set the level of detuning for the individual sections. Small is "subtle", medium already properly detuned and large sounds then very weird, but the values can also be customized. Thats great and with it you can achieve interesting effects. The Detune function is similar, but detached from it as far as I understand because the detune function is more versatile in terms of a performance and better for aleatoric stuff.

Today I layered the Autodivisi with the OPUS Orchestrator. Sounds extraordinarily good because the Orchestrator strings basically work like Divisi. The sound is much more lively, and here also a larger humanization setting makes sense.


----------



## Casiquire

Duncan Krummel said:


> Initial thoughts: MSS solo strings are clearly designed for MSS, and ditto for LASS. With that said, the more expressive performance of the LASS samples make them actually more useable as solo strings, IMO. Maybe not for extended solos, but they can certainly be used as a ‘solo section during an ensemble piece’ very effectively. Plus you have a solo double bass which is VERY nice to have.


I initially liked the LASS first chairs but pretty quickly grew tired of the initial swell and the way they need to find the note, etc. They just sound timid and self conscious to me.

However...with the new legato options, i wonder if the vibe of the performance is better now. I was a fan of how different the viola sounded in MSS despite being the same samples


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Damn i totally overlooked these detune functions.


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Damn i totally overlooked these detune functions.


Aren't they wonderful?!


----------



## Casiquire

AndyP said:


> No, I mean the humanization function under ensemble with which the divisi can be detuned against each other. There you can set the level of detuning for the individual sections. Small is "subtle", medium already properly detuned and large sounds then very weird, but the values can also be customized. Thats great and with it you can achieve interesting effects. The Detune function is similar, but detached from it as far as I understand because the detune function is more versatile in terms of a performance and better for aleatoric stuff.
> 
> Today I layered the Autodivisi with the OPUS Orchestrator. Sounds extraordinarily good because the Orchestrator strings basically work like Divisi. The sound is much more lively, and here also a larger humanization setting makes sense.


I'd leave humanization off entirely for LASS. There's plenty of baked in humanization


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

I take that back maybe the upgrade is worth the price after all.


----------



## Noeticus

Casiquire said:


> I'd leave humanization off entirely for LASS. There's plenty of baked in humanization


There are also a lot of humans who are baked.

You know, now that weed is more readily accepted by society.


----------



## Noc

FYI, Audiobro just sent an email alert saying their servers are temporarily down whilst they upgrade them to better handle the demand for LASS 3 & others, that the upgrade is taking a little longer than anticipated, that they’re extending their Black Friday/Cyber Monday sale through December 6 to compensate, and that anyone with interrupted downloads will get a new download once things are back up.

Posting this hopefully to inform anyone who’s about to ask here why AB’s site is down or why their LASS 3 download was suddenly canceled and so on.


----------



## CT

This renews my LASS lust for the dozenth time over ~10 years. It would definitely be self-indulgent of me which I can't really justify.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

The $99 upgrade price for LASS Full owner is a fix price right?


----------



## alcorey

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> The $99 upgrade price for LASS Full owner is a fix price right?


Best to ask [email protected] to be sure


----------



## ag75

The new LaSS 3 update is FANTASTIC. LASS has always been the most realistic sounding strings to me. This is what recorded strings sound like. Love the new GUI.


----------



## novaburst

Henu said:


> The new workflow was way too convincing to not to do it.


+1..............the player really works well and simplifies things.


----------



## novaburst

Lex said:


> Will I get to keep my LASS 1.5 where it is and have LASS 3 as a new library? Can I use both at the same time?


The new LASS 3 does not effect any previous versions


----------



## constaneum

Has anyone tested LASS 3 ? How's the finding ?


----------



## imusic

Hi,

the "upgrade" is a "no brainer" !

as a new library - there is a lot of choice in our days ... (just check out whatever you will like)

my2cts, imusic


----------



## Drumdude2112

I may very well jump on LASS 3 light , to get a feel for them…Sounds like (at the very least ) it makes for a great layering library no ? And it seems the lite version gives you alot of articulations for the $ (lacks the divisi) 
Very cool of audiobro to give full credit of what you paid towards the full version too .


----------



## muziksculp

I just got an email from AudioBro that their Servers are back online, and better than ever  

I haven't downloaded LASS 3 yet, so I guess today is a good day to do that.


----------



## Drumdude2112

muziksculp said:


> I just got an email from AudioBro that their Servers are back online, and better than ever
> 
> I haven't downloaded LASS 3 yet, so I guess today is a good day to do that.


I’m anxiously awaiting your report 😁👍🏻


----------



## AndyP

Is it possible that there is a bug with the Solo Bass Sordino Legato? The transitions come an eternity too late, and they are unplayable for me. 
Wasn't it actually the case that the solo bass has no sordino articulation? yep, the list on the homepage says, no sordino ... but i can activate it.


----------



## jadedsean

Is there a way to purge samples in Lass 3? I work on a track per articulation basses so this would be a invaluable option to have. As it is, the V1 comes in at 2.42gb. That is quite a lot. nyone know if this is possible? Also, how do you guys have it setup. For me i would like to split the divsi's out.


----------



## jadedsean

Edit, i know i can purge the divsi section but i mean the articulations, is this possible?


----------



## Mr Greg G

jadedsean said:


> Edit, i know i can purge the divsi section but i mean the articulations, is this possible?


Maybe try clicking on the articulation you want to unload with CTRL or ALT or MAJ or a combination of the 3?


----------



## muziksculp

Any reason to keep LASS 2.5 after I install LASS 3 ? 

I have no projects that use LASS 2.5. That's not an issue. 

Thanks.


----------



## jadedsean

Mr Pringles said:


> Maybe try clicking on the articulation you want to unload with CTRL or ALT or MAJ or a combination of the 3?


No i tried this, it used to be that Lass was very light, but now with everything loaded on one patch its kinda of slugish.


----------



## jadedsean

Also, is it only the legatos that have Sordinos, i never bought that library previouly.


----------



## Casiquire

jadedsean said:


> Also, is it only the legatos that have Sordinos, i never bought that library previouly.


LASS? Version 3.0 includes sordino legatos. If i recall, the rest of the articulations were not recorded with Sordino but 2.5 had an effect to imitate it for all the rest of the articulations. I'm not sure how that translates into 3


----------



## jadedsean

Casiquire said:


> LASS? Version 3.0 includes sordino legatos. If i recall, the rest of the articulations were not recorded with Sordino but 2.5 had an effect to imitate it for all the rest of the articulations. I'm not sure how that translates into 3


Thanks dude, yeah i thought so too but was not completely sure, do you know if their is a way to unload articulations?


----------



## Casiquire

jadedsean said:


> Thanks dude, yeah i thought so too but was not completely sure, do you know if their is a way to unload articulations?


From my experience with MSS, you'll go to the performance page with the big round knob in the middle, look at the left side where it says Switcher, and hit that cog. I did notice that sometimes, parts of an articulation might stay loaded. For example, in MSS "sustain" patches like the default legato patch will also load the samples for Sordino, sul pont, and sul tasto, and those will stay loaded in RAM even if you remove them from the Switcher. So if you're loading and unloading something and see no RAM benefit, that could be why. Might as well leave it loaded


----------



## jadedsean

Casiquire said:


> From my experience with MSS, you'll go to the performance page with the big round knob in the middle, look at the left side where it says Switcher, and hit that cog. I did notice that sometimes, parts of an articulation might stay loaded. For example, in MSS "sustain" patches like the default legato patch will also load the samples for Sordino, sul pont, and sul tasto, and those will stay loaded in RAM even if you remove them from the Switcher. So if you're loading and unloading something and see no RAM benefit, that could be why. Might as well leave it loaded


Ahh i see, great info mate thank you, much appreciated.


----------



## jcrosby

Drumdude2112 said:


> I may very well jump on LASS 3 light , to get a feel for them…Sounds like (at the very least ) it makes for a great layering library no ? And it seems the lite version gives you alot of articulations for the $ (lacks the divisi)
> Very cool of audiobro to give full credit of what you paid towards the full version too .


Lite's a great way to start.... This is how I first bought LASS, and upgraded over time. Even if you find the sound a bit on the dry side (although improved and more accessible in v3) it layers brilliantly with just about any library, allowing you to add definition.


----------



## Noc

muziksculp said:


> Any reason to keep LASS 2.5 after I install LASS 3 ?
> 
> I have no projects that use LASS 2.5. That's not an issue.
> 
> Thanks.


LASS 3 is basically LASS 2.5 with a new UI and overhauled scripting. LASS 3 also includes the legacy LASS 2.5 patches & multis, re-encoded to work with the LASS 3 samples, as an optional download.

The two main reasons someone might wanna keep LASS 2.5 around are a) compatibility with existing projects and b) a preference for the legacy patches; in your case, the former is moot and the latter is covered.

So … happy downloading.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Is there some equivalent of the AA sub-rules from 2.5 in v3? Maybe I'm missing something. It's helpful to be able to roll a chord and have the voices go each section in a consistent way. I'm sure there's a way to do that in v3 but I haven't gotten that far yet.


----------



## muziksculp

Looking forward to try LASS 3 soon.


----------



## alcorey

muziksculp said:


> Looking forward to try LASS 3 soon.


What sort of internet speeds do you have? I notice 38.43 MBs per second on your screenshot - maybe things have calmed down a bit but I was only getting an average of 4 to 5 when I downloaded (long time) and right when it got to the end it crashed    and I had to start all over again - but this was also on BF


----------



## Rex282

AB always seems to have problems……


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I just began scratching the surface of LASS 3, the Mixer features alone could take a few days to explore, and discover how they affect the sound/timbre. So far I'm very impressed, I need to watch the walkthrough videos again. 

I started with Celli Pizz. to get a good idea of the mixer effect, they sound so alive, and colorful across the various dynamics. Very musical.

I'm not sure what the Chopper insert at the top of the mixer channels is used for, but I will soon figure it out. Anyone know what the Chopper is good for ?

The Stage feature is so cool. I can position each of the three celli divisi sections (A,B,C) on the stage, very nice !

Just wanted to give a big round of applause to the AudioBro development team for producing this wonderful sounding sample library. I'm a very happy customer  THANK YOU !


----------



## muziksculp

alcorey said:


> What sort of internet speeds do you have? I notice 38.43 MBs per second on your screenshot - maybe things have calmed down a bit but I was only getting an average of 4 to 5 when I downloaded (long time) and right when it got to the end it crashed    and I had to start all over again - but this was also on BF


It took between 20 and 25 minutes max to download LASS 3, went super smooth, no issues at all.


----------



## alcorey

muziksculp said:


> It took between 20 and 25 minutes max to download LASS 3, went super smooth, no issues at all.


Nice, Bf was a download nightmare day for many - but it all got sorted eventually - I'm loving the upgrade


----------



## Henu

So, I was fooling around with the lookahead function but alas, it seems that the articulations (guided by expression maps in Cubase) are _not_ delayed. This means that my Expression Map articulations are now 400 ms ahead, and everything sounds -not surprisingly- like utter bollocks. Have you others encountered the same?

I heard that the same lookahead-method is in use with MSS, so does anyone know if the same issue happen with that as well?


----------



## ZeeCount

Henu said:


> So, I was fooling around with the lookahead function but alas, it seems that the articulations (guided by expression maps in Cubase) are _not_ delayed. This means that my Expression Map articulations are now 400 ms ahead, and everything sounds -not surprisingly- like utter bollocks. Have you others encountered the same?
> 
> I heard that the same lookahead-method is in use with MSS, so does anyone know if the same issue happen with that as well?


Yup I noticed the same problem with expression maps and LASS 3.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Henu said:


> So, I was fooling around with the lookahead function but alas, it seems that the articulations (guided by expression maps in Cubase) are _not_ delayed. This means that my Expression Map articulations are now 400 ms ahead, and everything sounds -not surprisingly- like utter bollocks. Have you others encountered the same?
> 
> I heard that the same lookahead-method is in use with MSS, so does anyone know if the same issue happen with that as well?


Did you set your track delay as well? Track delay should be delaying the articulation selections as well.


----------



## Henu

Yes I did of course, but it doesn't actually affect the articulation selection UNLESS there is a well-hidden setting somewhere which I have missed. The same problem was when using the legato script for CSS, making it unusable for me. The notes move accordingly, the articulations don't.


----------



## ZeeCount

Henu said:


> Yes I did of course, but it doesn't actually affect the articulation selection UNLESS there is a well-hidden setting somewhere which I have missed. The same problem was when using the legato script for CSS, making it unusable for me. The notes move accordingly, the articulations don't.


I suspect it may be a Cubase bug, where track delay doesn't effect expression maps.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Henu said:


> Yes I did of course, but it doesn't actually affect the articulation selection UNLESS there is a well-hidden setting somewhere which I have missed. The same problem was when using the legato script for CSS, making it unusable for me. The notes move accordingly, the articulations don't.


Are you using attribute expression maps or direction expression maps? I only use attribute, but I haven't noticed this before (but it may be more obvious for quick changes in succession).


----------



## Henu

Ah crap- good point! Direction. It seems logical that using attributes would actually eliminate this problem as the articulations are tied to the note start instead of the timeline. 

I just can't stand Attribute workflow, but maybe I could actually learn to not to detest it if I'd get this lookahead feature as compensation. :D Thanks for the tip!


----------



## ZeeCount

Henu said:


> Ah crap- good point! Direction. It seems logical that using attributes would actually eliminate this problem as the articulations are tied to the note start instead of the timeline.
> 
> I just can't stand Attribute workflow, but maybe I could actually learn to not to detest it if I'd get this lookahead feature as compensation. :D Thanks for the tip!


I use my expression maps as attribute, and the expression maps were screwing up for me.


----------



## dxmachina

ZeeCount said:


> I use my expression maps as attribute, and the expression maps were screwing up for me.


There's a 3.0.1 update that should help with this (LookAhead + Expression Maps). Shoot me a PM if you still have any trouble after that.


----------



## Casiquire

dxmachina said:


> There's a 3.0.1 update that should help with this (LookAhead + Expression Maps). Shoot me a PM if you still have any trouble after that.


Y'all. This is the best dev.


----------



## muziksculp

dxmachina said:


> There's a 3.0.1 update that should help with this (LookAhead + Expression Maps). Shoot me a PM if you still have any trouble after that.


Is 3.0.1 Update needed if I don't use Cubase ? 

I use Studio One Pro 5 / Windows 10. 

Thanks.


----------



## dxmachina

muziksculp said:


> Is 3.0.1 Update needed if I don't use Cubase ?


The Marc. artics were missing in Studio One Sound Variations and we fixed a couple bad pizz envelopes as well. Probably worth it to update IMO.


----------



## muziksculp

dxmachina said:


> The Marc. artics were missing in Studio One Sound Variations and we fixed a couple bad pizz envelopes as well. Probably worth it to update IMO.


OK. That's Awesome. 

THANKS


----------



## muziksculp

Just spotted this short demo of LASS 3 Legatos being tested on YT, and thought it might be good to share it here.


----------



## muziksculp

Question for LASS 3 users.

Do you use five instances of Kontakt, one instance of Kontakt for each section of the string sections (Vlns1, Vlns2, Vlas, Celli, Basses) when using LASS 3 ? or do you use one instance of Kontakt with each string section assigned a different midi channel ?


----------



## Inventio

Casiquire said:


> I'd leave humanization off entirely for LASS. There's plenty of baked in humanization





Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Damn i totally overlooked these detune functions.


OH I see it now! I thought the celli had drunk too much beer between version 2.5 and 3...


----------



## Inventio

muziksculp said:


> Question for LASS 3 users.
> 
> Do you use five instances of Kontakt, one instance of Kontakt for each section of the string sections (Vlns1, Vlns2, Vlas, Celli, Basses) when using LASS 3 ? or do you use one instance of Kontakt with each string section assigned a different midi channel ?


I am using 5 instances for easier routing and automation.


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## muziksculp

Inventio said:


> I am using 5 instances for easier routing and automation.


THANKS  

That was very helpful. 

That's what I would do as well, but I wanted to double check.


----------



## Inventio

muziksculp said:


> THANKS
> 
> That was very helpful.
> 
> That's what I would do as well, but I wanted to double check.


You're welcome!

By the way, the Chopper insert seems there as the first of a series of selectable fx, which are turned off by default.
Seems like an envelope generator for rhythmic effects, more for hybrid, processed styles, not like A.R.T.

Maybe these inserts come from LADD? I don't own it but I remember seeing a series of processing tools there.


----------



## muziksculp

Inventio said:


> You're welcome!
> 
> By the way, the Chopper insert seems there as the first of a series of selectable fx, which are turned off by default.
> Seems like an envelope generator for rhythmic effects, more for hybrid, processed styles, not like A.R.T.
> 
> Maybe these inserts come from LADD? I don't own it but I remember seeing a series of processing tools there.


Yes, the Chopper produces a rhythmic effect, I will experiment with it. Could be useful for modern string effects, or to produce unique string textures. 

I don't own LADD either. So, I don't know if it comes from LADD. I don't recall if they mention the Chopper in any of the LASS 3 videos.

Thanks.


----------



## Jackal_King

For anyone that has LASS 3, is the sound similar or any different from CSS? I tried CSS for the first Wednesday for about 10 minues but trying to read up on the delay workaround before I really mess with it.


----------



## Saxer

Jackal_King said:


> For anyone that has LASS 3, is the sound similar or any different from CSS? I tried CSS for the first Wednesday for about 10 minues but trying to read up on the delay workaround before I really mess with it.


Completely different. LASS is dryer, less vibrato, much brighter and divided in three divisi parts per section. CSS is darker and more "romantic". The shorts are less agressive than LASS. It depends on the track what fits better.


----------



## Casiquire

Jackal_King said:


> For anyone that has LASS 3, is the sound similar or any different from CSS? I tried CSS for the first Wednesday for about 10 minues but trying to read up on the delay workaround before I really mess with it.


They're about as opposite in sound as you can get aside from the high vibrato. The reports are that the two blend very well together, which makes sense given that each is offering something the other does not


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## Jackal_King

Casiquire said:


> They're about as opposite in sound as you can get aside from the high vibrato. The reports are that the two blend very well together, which makes sense given that each is offering something the other does not


Good. I was hoping that there would be some contrast between them. From the demos that I heard, LASS sounds really nice. It kind of reminds me of Century Strings but not quite as bright.


----------



## yellow_lupine

For the ones that upgraded to LASS 3, do you find the sound profile of the strings the same as with LASS 2.5 or somehow different?


----------



## zwhita

Interested in hearing any compare & contrast between LASS and Century Strings Ensemble as well


----------



## LamaRose

Are the walkthroughs going through $10,000 worth of outboard verbs/gear?


----------



## muziksculp

LamaRose said:


> Are the walkthroughs going through $10,000 worth of outboard verbs/gear?


Hmmm Interesting question, why are you asking about this ?


----------



## Henu

yellow_lupine said:


> For the ones that upgraded to LASS 3, do you find the sound profile of the strings the same as with LASS 2.5 or somehow different?


Completely different IMO. The summed divisi patches in 3 sound closer to 2.5, but the big mixable 3-divisi "main" patches sound _way_ smoother, nicer and wider than the main, summed ones in 2.5. It's like someone actually mixed the library this time. :D


----------



## muziksculp

Would be nice to watch an in-depth review of LASS 3 on YT. So far none exist. Especially by someone who used LASS 2.5 that comments on the differences.


----------



## N.Caffrey

I bought Lass Lite many years ago, my first string library. I haven’t used it for quite a while but this thread made me take it out for a spin again. Why am I not using it more often?! It sounds bloody great, legatos are amazing!


----------



## Casiquire

N.Caffrey said:


> I have bought Lass Lite many years ago, my first string library. I haven’t used it for quite a while but this thread made me take it out again for a spin. Why am I not using it more often?! It sounds bloody great, legatos are amazing!


It was by first big library and i agree, it's really good to this day


----------



## yellow_lupine

Henu said:


> Completely different IMO. The summed divisi patches in 3 sound closer to 2.5, but the big mixable 3-divisi "main" patches sound _way_ smoother, nicer and wider than the main, summed ones in 2.5. It's like someone actually mixed the library this time. :D


That’s great! And what about the “harshness”, has it been tamed somehow?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

yellow_lupine said:


> That’s great! And what about the “harshness”, has it been tamed somehow?


With all the EQ pretests you're bound to find one that takes care of that. Assuming this is a real issue...


----------



## Scalms

Can someone please do a quick demo (perhaps just 1 sustained or crescendo chord so we can hear the difference between 2.5 and 3?

thanks in advance!


----------



## Casiquire

Henu said:


> Completely different IMO. The summed divisi patches in 3 sound closer to 2.5, but the big mixable 3-divisi "main" patches sound _way_ smoother, nicer and wider than the main, summed ones in 2.5. It's like someone actually mixed the library this time. :D


Hmm. Are you referring to a LASS3 patch with all three divisi sections summed, or do you mean that each individual divisi section has been treated and mixed individually in LASS3? Does that mean projects from 2.5 sound different no matter what, or is it an optional preset you're referring to?


----------



## Henu

I mean that the summed 3-divisi patch sounds closer to 2.5 sound. Which makes sense too, because that's what they had in 2.5 when you loaded up e.g. full violas.

The larger patch has all the divisi as separate instances instead of summing (think them basically as "mic sliders" in other sample libraries- but you can position and treat them individually) and the default blend is pre-mixed way more nicer-sounding. Somehow it doesn't make sense that it should sound different by default, but it certainly does.

I made a crappy picture to explain it better:


----------



## Casiquire

Henu said:


> I mean that the summed 3-divisi patch sounds closer to 2.5 sound. Which makes sense too, because that's what they had in 2.5 when you loaded up e.g. full violas.
> 
> The larger patch has all the divisi as separate instances instead of summing (think them basically as "mic sliders" in other sample libraries- but you can position and treat them individually) and the default blend is pre-mixed way more nicer-sounding. Somehow it doesn't make sense that it should sound different by default, but it certainly does.
> 
> I made a crappy picture to explain it better:


So they're basically like a new option in 3? Interesting! I'm going to pick these up pretty soon and see for myself too


----------



## Henu

Yeah, good point- I didn't even realize but yes, it's like a new option indeed!


----------



## Wunderhorn

Does anyone know if the upgrade price of $99 is going to stay available after today?


----------



## Pablocrespo

That’s a good question. Don’t have the funds right now, maybe Andrew or Sebastian can shed some light?


----------



## alcorey

Wunderhorn said:


> Does anyone know if the upgrade price of $99 is going to stay available after today?


This was posted on the Audiobro forum by Sebastian - hope that helps a little


----------



## Pablocrespo

But we don’t know if after today the $99 upgrade price will go up?


----------



## Zanshin

I mean that picture pretty much says it will go up.


----------



## Casiquire

Oh no 😒 I'll be a couple more weeks before i start planning to upgrade


----------



## Wunderhorn

Yeah, I was hoping to be able put that purchase off for a little bit.
I'd love to know if someone can confirm and what the new prices would look like.


----------



## muziksculp

I thought this *LASS 3* Articulation chart for both the Full, and Lite versions, would be useful to post here :


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> I thought this *LASS 3* Articulation chart for both the Full, and Lite versions, would be useful to post here :


Are you getting more satisfaction out of LASS now? I'm glad the interface isn't holding you back anymore because it's a great library


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Are you getting more satisfaction out of LASS now? I'm glad the interface isn't holding you back anymore because it's a great library


Yes, the new Interface is a huge improvement for me, as I mentioned, I didn't use ver 2.5, mainly due to the convoluted GUI system. This is a very different story with LASS 3. 

Thanks


----------



## muziksculp

@Casiquire ,

So are you upgrading to LASS 3 ? I think the upgrade pricing of $99. might not last too long.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> @Casiquire ,
> 
> So are you upgrading to LASS 3 ? I think the upgrade pricing of $99. might not last too long.


I know, but i think i need to pass on the early bird pricing. I thought those prices were permanent. I'll still get it though, even if it means paying a little more.

(Or maybe I'll just so happen to catch a sale)


----------



## Tralen

Casiquire said:


> Are you getting more satisfaction out of LASS now? I'm glad the interface isn't holding you back anymore because it's a great library


I was remembering the chat we had about Chris Hein and, after watching some videos from him, I'm convinced his libraries would be absolute killers if they got a GUI update as well.


----------



## Casiquire

Tralen said:


> I was remembering the chat we had about Chris Hein and, after watching some videos from him, I'm convinced his libraries would be absolute killers if they got a GUI update as well.


Similarly to LASS, i didn't mind their interface despite a lot of people hating it, but i agree. I think Hein would gain a whole lot from a refresh. And no matter how many times I toy with it i can never quite grasp how each of the legato controls will affect the performance so better clarity there would go a long way too


----------



## Tralen

Casiquire said:


> Similarly to LASS, i didn't mind their interface despite a lot of people hating it, but i agree. I think Hein would gain a whole lot from a refresh. And no matter how many times I toy with it i can never quite grasp how each of the legato controls will affect the performance so better clarity there would go a long way too


Yes, I'm looking from the perspective of a potential customer and I'm completely intimidated. 

But they are really impressive, nonetheless.


----------



## Scalms

Wunderhorn said:


> Yeah, I was hoping to be able put that purchase off for a little bit.
> I'd love to know if someone can confirm and what the new prices would look like.


yeah, me too, I was hoping to wait until sometime next year. I've moved on to other string libraries, but I still use LASS as a supplement, therefore $100 for an upgrade I am totally fine with, anything more than that is basically a no-go. Unless of course it goes up to $105, or maybe $110, I guess $115 would be okay...


----------



## muziksculp

Chris Hein libraries in a new much better designed GUI, with further improvements would be awesome. 

Has anyone suggested that to him ?


----------



## Noeticus

I have not used my Chris Hein libraries because of the GUI.


----------



## muziksculp

Noeticus said:


> I have not used my Chris Hein libraries because of the GUI.


Yeah, they are not the most inviting GUIs to make you want to use these libraries.


----------



## PJMorgan

dxmachina said:


> The Marc. artics were missing in Studio One Sound Variations and we fixed a couple bad pizz envelopes as well. Probably worth it to update IMO.


I don't see an update for this in the download center, is this just a case of reinstalling the latest library folder without the samples?


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## dxmachina

PJMorgan said:


> I don't see an update for this in the download center, is this just a case of reinstalling the latest library folder without the samples?


If you ran the latest update (3.0.1) you should already have the updated Sound Variations. Reinstalling the latest library folder would pull them in again, yes. Shoot me a message if you have any trouble.


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## PJMorgan

dxmachina said:


> If you ran the latest update (3.0.1) you should already have the updates Sound Variations. Reinstalling the latest library folder would pull them in again, yes. Shoot me a message if you have any trouble.


quickest reply ever! I think that's it sorted now thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

@dxmachina ,

I haven't yet updated to 3.0.1 , do the Studio One Sound-Variations get installed automatically when I installed verison 3.0 ? or do I need to manually install them from a specific folder ? 

Thanks.


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## dxmachina

@muziksculp You'll want to update to get the latest Sound Variations, but they are in: /LASS Full 3 Library/DAW Integrations/Studio One Sound Variations/

The folder needs to go in: Documents/Studio One/Presets/User Presets/Key Switches/

Then restart S1 or Re-index the presets and they should be available.


----------



## muziksculp

dxmachina said:


> @muziksculp You'll want to update to get the latest Sound Variations, but they are in: /LASS Full 3 Library/DAW Integrations/Studio One Sound Variations/
> 
> The folder needs to go in: Documents/Studio One/Presets/User Presets/Key Switches/
> 
> Then restart S1 or Re-index the presets and they should be available.


THANKS


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## Wunderhorn

By the inclusion of Sound Variations (and expression maps for Cubase and Logic respectively) Audiobro is leading by a bright shining example with something that should be adopted by many other library makers.


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## clisma

@dxmachina 

I must be dense, but working on a cue over here and for the life of me I can't get any Cello trills... No matter which version of the Celli I load, Mixdowns/Full/DAW Integrated or not, there is no tile for any of the Trills. All other articulations are there and load just fine, but I can't seem to load Trills even with the articulation switcher.

Could you please instruct me on how to proceed?


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## geronimo

I see no thrills articulation for Cellos Full patche _


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## Noc

clisma said:


> @dxmachina
> 
> I must be dense, but working on a cue over here and for the life of me I can't get any Cello trills... No matter which version of the Celli I load, Mixdowns/Full/DAW Integrated or not, there is no tile for any of the Trills. All other articulations are there and load just fine, but I can't seem to load Trills even with the articulation switcher.
> 
> Could you please instruct me on how to proceed?


According to the LASS 3 articulations chart, it doesn’t have any cello (or bass) ensemble trills. The solo (First Chair) cello apparently has ’em though. I know LASS 2.5 doesn’t have any cello & bass trills at all, so if anything, the chart indicates that a solo cello trill was added in LASS 3.






I don’t have LASS 3 yet so I can’t comment authoritatively, but I know that some libraries use a unified UI switcher design for all patches, even if a particular articulation isn’t available for a particular instrument; you just can’t activate it. (For instance, in Cinematic Studio Brass, all patches have the “Muted” articulation tile, but some instruments like the Tuba can’t turn it on, so it’s permanently greyed out and nothing happens when you click it.)


----------



## clisma

geronimo said:


> I see no thrills articulation for Cellos Full patche _


Yep, you are right. No trills are present for Celli and Basses. For whatever reason I thought v2.5 had them. Back to CSS for this particular cue, bummer. Thanks!


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## clisma

Noc said:


> According to the LASS 3 articulations chart, it doesn’t have any cello (or bass) ensemble trills. The solo (First Chair) cello apparently has ’em though. I know LASS 2.5 doesn’t have any cello & bass trills at all, so if anything, the chart indicates that a solo cello trill was added in LASS 3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t have LASS 3 yet so I can’t comment authoritatively, but I know that some libraries use a unified UI switcher design for all patches, even if a particular articulation isn’t available for a particular instrument; you just can’t activate it. (For instance, in Cinematic Studio Brass, all patches have the “Muted” articulation tile, but some instruments like the Tuba can’t turn it on, so it’s permanently greyed out and nothing happens when you click it.)


Yes, I just realized it as well. Thank you. It has been a while since I used LASS 2.5 extensively last. My memory failed me and I thought that Cello trills were included. Slight disappointment that; I would expect the Basses to skip them. Still, so far a great update to prolong the life of one of my favs, so I won't complain. I'll try using it again in a later cue.


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## Noeticus

I assume you could try playing a trill and see if you like it.


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## clisma

Noeticus said:


> I assume you could try playing a trill and see if you like it.


For sure. And I could probably fiddle to get it to sound reasonably decent. Or I can focus my energy and attention on the notes and use the right tool for the cue. No biggie and no dig at LASS at all. Very much looking forward to using it on something that is trill-less.


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## Casiquire

Black Friday prices have been extended through the holidays!!


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## Drumdude2112

Casiquire said:


> Black Friday prices have been extended through the holidays!!


Till Jan 1st ?


----------



## Teldex

As a LASS 2.5 and Legato Sordino owner I purchased the (in my opinion slightly overpriced loyalty) upgrade to LASS 3. I have held off downloading for the moment because past experience has me expecting some bugs in a product so early in its release. 

Is my cautious attitude warranted or are there no known issues? (I began reading this thread a couple of weeks back and seem to recall the mention of a glitch or two, which may or may not have been sorted).


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## Casiquire

Drumdude2112 said:


> Till Jan 1st ?


No idea lol!


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## Noc

Teldex said:


> As a LASS 2.5 and Legato Sordino owner I purchased the (in my opinion slightly overpriced loyalty) upgrade to LASS 3. I have held off downloading for the moment because past experience has me expecting some bugs in a product so early in its release.
> 
> Is my cautious attitude warranted or are there no known issues? (I began reading this thread a couple of weeks back and seem to recall the mention of a glitch or two, which may or may not have been sorted).


To my knowledge, only a small handful of glitches were reported and all of those have since been fixed with some quick updates. I haven’t noticed anyone note any big issues, especially since, so you’re probably in the clear. 👍🏻


----------



## Casiquire

Teldex said:


> As a LASS 2.5 and Legato Sordino owner I purchased the (in my opinion slightly overpriced loyalty) upgrade to LASS 3. I have held off downloading for the moment because past experience has me expecting some bugs in a product so early in its release.
> 
> Is my cautious attitude warranted or are there no known issues? (I began reading this thread a couple of weeks back and seem to recall the mention of a glitch or two, which may or may not have been sorted).


It's worth noting that the new interface has been used in three previous libraries. It's no longer untested territory. You might expect there to be bugs in the conversation and editing of the samples for the new player but those are the easiest kinds of bugs to fix. And audiobro has a fantastic track record too


----------



## Teldex

Thanks Noc and Casiquire for the info.


----------



## jcrosby

Teldex said:


> (in my opinion slightly overpriced loyalty)


One thing to keep in mind depending on how long you've been involved with Kontakt is that LASS's 2009 debut price was either $1500 or 2k? (I honestly don't remember outside of doing some assistant work for a composer who bought it at retail at the time).... 

For sure prices have shifted over the years, but hopefully that's at least worth some perspective.... Not to mention that AB really are incredibly consistent, something that IMO is worth paying a little extra for...


----------



## Noc

I’ll be honest, I’m a little surprised at how many people say the upgrade price is more expensive than they expected. Considering that LASS has been consistently priced at over a thousand bucks for the last decade – it was $1,200 just a few years ago when I bought it – I’d say that $99 or $129 (depending on whether you have LASS+LS or just LASS) for the full LASS 3 package actually seems extremely cheap to me; I was expecting at least $200-300 to upgrade before pricing was announced, based on the LASS 2.5 pricing and what I’ve seen from other library developers. If anything, I’d argue that Audiobro is bending over backwards lately to make their products super-affordable, considering the sheer size (in amount of content/articulations) and quality of the library.

I don’t mean for this to sound critical or anything; everyone’s financial situation is different. But even speaking as someone who couldn’t afford to buy the library again at the moment, it’s such a huge drop from the regular price that it feels totally fair to me. But of course, YMMV.


----------



## Casiquire

I also disagree that it's overpriced. It's cheaper than VSL is asking for me to upgrade to Synchronized libraries. We've already had some good free updates over the years.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Noc said:


> I’ll be honest, I’m a little surprised at how many people say the upgrade price is more expensive than they expected. Considering that LASS has been consistently priced at over a thousand bucks for the last decade – it was $1,200 just a few years ago when I bought it – I’d say that $99 or $129 (depending on whether you have LASS+LS or just LASS) for the full LASS 3 package actually seems extremely cheap to me; I was expecting at least $200-300 to upgrade before pricing was announced,


You can have a brand new string library from Sonokinetics for 200 euros right now. You can have a great and brand new brass, ww or Strings library fron CS for $279 if you own any of their libraries (except the piano). etc. So looking at it this way it's not cheap. And that's how a consumer should look at it imo.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Casiquire said:


> I also disagree that it's overpriced. It's cheaper than VSL is asking for me to upgrade to Synchronized libraries. We've already had some good free updates over the years.


Everything is cheaper than VSL... And yes we did have good free updates. I'll be a little pissed if i have to pat more $100.


----------



## Soundbed

Ok so I quickly skimmed about 10 pages of posts — blurgh.

Is there anything you want to hear that you have not heard that could be done quickly and simply to show you what LASS 3 sounds like?


----------



## Batrawi

Soundbed said:


> Ok so I quickly skimmed about 10 pages of posts — blurgh.
> 
> Is there anything you want to hear that you have not heard that could be done quickly and simply to show you what LASS 3 sounds like?


I don't know why... but this is how I've pictured you when you wrote this:


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Soundbed said:


> Ok so I quickly skimmed about 10 pages of posts — blurgh.
> 
> Is there anything you want to hear that you have not heard that could be done quickly and simply to show you what LASS 3 sounds like?


Clear and isolated example the of the legato speed control whithin each category(legato, portamento etc). And a mix of sordinos and none sordinos.


----------



## Grizzlymv

Soundbed said:


> Ok so I quickly skimmed about 10 pages of posts — blurgh.
> 
> Is there anything you want to hear that you have not heard that could be done quickly and simply to show you what LASS 3 sounds like?


One thing that I'm curious to hear, is a bending with the strings. CSS can't do it which is a big shame and limitation in my opinion. I was looking at LASS with the detune option to bend (ala The Beast from Scicario) the strings, not just doing aleatoric stuff. I do have Genesis and did try it with it, and the result is not that convincing, but then it's voices samples which is quite different than strings. Still have to find a nice quality string lib that is flexible on that front.


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Clear and isolated example the of the legato speed control whithin each category(legato, portamento etc). And a mix of sordinos and none sordinos.


The Sordinos are worth the price alone. In fact i literally paid more for them alone, years ago. Just gorgeous


----------



## wilifordmusic

Just a couple of observations from a bystander.

The pricing will always be a subject for debate. Only you can determine if the expense is appropriate for you.


If you used LASS in the past and never got the sound you wanted, this version won't change your perception.
If you used LASS in the past and never got comfortable with the A.R.C., this version will change your perception.

I always found the sound and the legatos to my liking. I did sometimes struggle with the A.R.C. to get it to fit with my workflow.

LASS 3 fixed that.

My old friend got prettier and smarter. How often does that happen?

Best 99 bucks I ever spent. (except for that one time in mexico)


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

wilifordmusic said:


> Best 99 bucks I ever spent. (except for that one time in mexico)


$99 in Mexico? You got robed.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Casiquire said:


> The Sordinos are worth the price alone. In fact i literally paid more for them alone, years ago. Just gorgeous


I have the full version so i already have the sordinos. So i was talking about LASS Full owners. Others are getting a good deal right now.


----------



## wilifordmusic

Ya gotta think BIGGG!


----------



## Soundbed

Grizzlymv said:


> One thing that I'm curious to hear, is a bending with the strings. CSS can't do it which is a big shame and limitation in my opinion. I was looking at LASS with the detune option to bend (ala The Beast from Scicario) the strings, not just doing aleatoric stuff. I do have Genesis and did try it with it, and the result is not that convincing, but then it's voices samples which is quite different than strings. Still have to find a nice quality string lib that is flexible on that front.


It's not particularly difficult to get "close" ... I mean the subtlety to achieve the precise effect seems more in the delay and filtering (and possibly saturation) as well as the stereo field and subtle variations, than the source material (the strings "bend").





I could probably do the exact same thing with any strings sustain and an audio effect like Waves SoundShifter (automate the big slider on the right).


----------



## AMBi

Wow just realized they added A LOT more content to the Lite version this time around it’s pretty impressive how featured it is. Don’t see anything about mic positions though so I take Lite only has a standard mix mic?

Those sordinos sure are tempting..


----------



## Casiquire

AMBi said:


> Wow just realized they added A LOT more content to the Lite version this time around it’s pretty impressive how featured it is. Don’t see anything about mic positions though so I take Lite only has a standard mix mic?
> 
> Those sordinos sure are tempting..


LASS is and always has been a one-mic library. I know the original recordings were done with multiple mics that were mixed down, and in the lead-up to LASS 3 I asked whether they will release more of the other mics with version 3 or at any point in the future, and that doesn't seem to be part of their plans.

Having said that, the mix is well done and extremely flexible. People here talk about it being bone dry, but it actually isn't quite. They left in a lot of the room sound but snipped the tails so that you don't struggle to breathe life into the library but it works with just about any reverb you slap on to it


----------



## Batrawi

Soundbed said:


> Ok so I quickly skimmed about 10 pages of posts — blurgh.
> 
> Is there anything you want to hear that you have not heard that could be done quickly and simply to show you what LASS 3 sounds like?


maybe the effect of reducing the "brightness" knob/to what extent it may tame the harshness LASS is knwon for? a violins patch played in the mid-high register would be good to demonstrate this I think


----------



## Grizzlymv

Soundbed said:


> It's not particularly difficult to get "close" ... I mean the subtlety to achieve the precise effect seems more in the delay and filtering (and possibly saturation) as well as the stereo field and subtle variations, than the source material (the strings "bend").
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could probably do the exact same thing with any strings sustain and an audio effect like Waves SoundShifter (automate the big slider on the right).



Nice. I thought you would use the Detune button for that to get a better result than the pitchwheel, but the result is better than I thought using the pitch wheel.. Thanks for doing it!


----------



## Soundbed

Grizzlymv said:


> Nice. I thought you would use the Detune button for that to get a better result than the pitchwheel, but the result is better than I thought using the pitch wheel.. Thanks for doing it!


Detune is for more fine adjustments. I am not at the machine now but I think it will make one divisi sound out of tune with another divisi slightly … yes I suppose I could have incorporated it. In five seconds I had the basic sound. Filter down, pitch wheel bend, done. The rest of the time I spent with adjusting the filter settings, delays and saturation and stuff.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Soundbed said:


> It's not particularly difficult to get "close" ... I mean the subtlety to achieve the precise effect seems more in the delay and filtering (and possibly saturation) as well as the stereo field and subtle variations, than the source material (the strings "bend").
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could probably do the exact same thing with any strings sustain and an audio effect like Waves SoundShifter (automate the big slider on the right).



What is this SuperGT? Where did you get it?


----------



## Soundbed

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> What is this SuperGT? Where did you get it?


It's part of Kontakt. [EDIT - I have collectors, maybe it's not in every edition? But you can use any analog model compressor or saturation compressor tools you have handy. I was trying to use things I thought everyone would have.] It's a tube compressor. I started with a preset and dialed in what you hear / see at the beginning. It gives a little saturation / push.






SUPERCHARGER GT


SUPERCHARGER GT takes the sound of modern tube compression even further with superior control, additional saturation, and sonic sculpting.




www.native-instruments.com


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Soundbed said:


> It's part of Kontakt. [EDIT - I have collectors, maybe it's not in every edition? But you can use any anamlog model compressor or saturation compressor tools you have handy. I was trying to use things I thought everyone would have.] It's a tube compressor. I started with a preset and dialed in what you hear / see at the beginning. It gives a little saturation / push.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SUPERCHARGER GT
> 
> 
> SUPERCHARGER GT takes the sound of modern tube compression even further with superior control, additional saturation, and sonic sculpting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.native-instruments.com


I have it. I just don't know how to load it in Kontakt. I need to familiarize myself with K6. Thanks a lot.


----------



## Soundbed

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I have it. I just don't know how to load it in Kontakt. I need to familiarize myself with K6. Thanks a lot.


Expand the Outputs to see the insert slots. (I don't believe this is new to Kontakt 6.) Here I was looking for easy to access tools and I picked tools that are difficult to find lol.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Soundbed said:


> Expand the Outputs to see the insert slots. (I don't believe this is new to Kontakt 6.) Here I was looking for easy to access tools and I picked tools that are difficult to find lol.


Yea i managed to find this part watching your video and found Replika delay but didn't see the super charger. I hardly use the output section and never load Fx there. I probably should... Thanks again.


----------



## Soundbed

Batrawi said:


> maybe the effect of reducing the "brightness" knob/to what extent it may tame the harshness LASS is knwon for? a violins patch played in the mid-high register would be good to demonstrate this I think


something like this?


----------



## Batrawi

Soundbed said:


> something like this?



thx alot @Soundbed . yes exactly. brightness definetly seems to help taming the harshness, but not completely though as it's in the DNA of LASS which is understandable.

(and that last second in the video cracked me up )


----------



## soulofsound

Batrawi said:


> thx alot @Soundbed . yes exactly. brightness definetly seems to help taming the harshness, but not completely though as it's in the DNA of LASS which is understandable.
> 
> (and that last second in the video cracked me up )


I always slap Gulffoss on it or a similar plugin like SmartEQ. Works wonders. You can get any good strings sound out of it, which would be much harder if it lacked all the high-frequency information.


----------



## Soundbed

Batrawi said:


> thx alot @Soundbed . yes exactly. brightness definetly seems to help taming the harshness, but not completely though as it's in the DNA of LASS which is understandable.
> 
> (and that last second in the video cracked me up )


haha about the last second. I was like ... "should I do it again?" and me answered: "nah...."

personally I'd use Soothe2 but it's expensive.

Baby Audio has a cheaper alternative called Smooth Operator which also reduces resonances


----------



## muziksculp

Another good, and affordable Dynamic Resonance Suppressor is *RESO *by *Mastering The Mix*.

You can buy it from* Plugin Boutique* : https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/3-Studio-Tools/71-Dynamic-Processor/8320-RESO


----------



## givemenoughrope

Trying to wrap my brain around how to use the divisi/auto arranger in LASS 3. In 2.5 there was the option to set sub-rules and conditions for each note relating to how many notes were played and in what order. Is that possible in v3?


----------



## Soundbed

givemenoughrope said:


> Trying to wrap my brain around how to use the divisi/auto arranger in LASS 3. In 2.5 there was the option to set sub-rules and conditions for each note relating to how many notes were played and in what order. Is that possible in v3?


I believe you get the old multis. But the arranger / divisi section does seem to incorporate very similar features. I went over them in one MSS video briefly. What exactly are you trying to do?


----------



## givemenoughrope

To sketch chords "vertically" I would basically set note one to Vln1, note two to Vln2 and so on..or divisi clusters..

But it was very clearly and deliberately setup in the sub-rules. Maybe it just does that automatically now?


----------



## Futchibon

Soundbed said:


> Ok so I quickly skimmed about 10 pages of posts — blurgh.
> 
> Is there anything you want to hear that you have not heard that could be done quickly and simply to show you what LASS 3 sounds like?


Very interested in the sordino legatos that now come with LASS3 and lite. Lite doesnt have divisi just whole section sordino legatos, would be grateful in the difference in how they sound as am looking at getting L3Lite


----------



## Drumdude2112

muziksculp said:


> Another good, and affordable Dynamic Resonance Suppressor is *RESO *by *Mastering The Mix*.
> 
> You can buy it from* Plugin Boutique* : https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/3-Studio-Tools/71-Dynamic-Processor/8320-RESO


I have this one too , its quite good...Does things a bit differently then soothe 2 but yields similar results...Alot cheaper too, excellent plugin


----------



## Jackal_King

Has anyone else tried out the solo strings on LASS 3 yet and their thoughts on it? I mentioned on a previous comment about the comparison with CSS and knowing now that this was recorded as a dry library, it makes me wonder how similar it is to Spitfire Studio Strings in terms of tone. I don't want to overlap having two libraries that has the same color and sound. But from the initial demos that I've heard, it seems like LASS has a smoother legato.


----------



## Drumdude2112

Jackal_King said:


> Has anyone else tried out the solo strings on LASS 3 yet and their thoughts on it? I mentioned on a previous comment about the comparison with CSS and knowing now that this was recorded as a dry library, it makes me wonder how similar it is to Spitfire Studio Strings in terms of tone. I don't want to overlap having two libraries that has the same color and sound. But from the initial demos that I've heard, it seems like LASS has a smoother legato.


Also makes me curious as to how the newcomer TSS compares ..


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I updated LASS3 to the latest version, I use Studio One Pro 5/Windows 10, I coppied the folder the has the Sound-Variation keyswitches to the proper location, as instructed, but it doesn't show up in my sound-variations, any help on fixing this would be appreciated. 

Thanks.


----------



## Jackal_King

Drumdude2112 said:


> Also makes me curious as to how the newcomer TSS compares ..


A good comparison video with that compared to other dry libraries would be nice to see. I saw a video that compared LASS 2 and SStS and they both sound nearly the same. But maybe LASS 3 might be different this time around. If it's the same as SStS, I might save my bucks and get Genesis Children Choir before the sale ends.


----------



## babylonwaves

muziksculp said:


> I updated LASS3 to the latest version, I use Studio One Pro 5/Windows 10, I coppied the folder the has the Sound-Variation keyswitches to the proper location, as instructed, but it doesn't show up in my sound-variations, any help on fixing this would be appreciated.


hit refresh? you can also drag the sound variations in from the desktop.


----------



## muziksculp

babylonwaves said:


> hit refresh? you can also drag the sound variations in from the desktop.


Hi @babylonwaves ,

Thank You so much 

Yes, I needed to hit refresh in the browser area, I thought there was another refresh inside the Sound-Variations window, but that's not the case. Got a bit confused with the refresh. All the LASS 3 sound-variations are showing up now.

Oh.. a question for you, I see the Babylon Articulation Conductor folder for LASS, are those for LASS 3 sound-variations, or for the older LASS 2.5 ?

Do you mean drag the sound-variations from the desktop on to Studio One's Interface ? and they will be added ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Batrawi

Drumdude2112 said:


> Also makes me curious as to how the newcomer TSS compares ..


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Batrawi said:


>



Preferred the tone of LASS3, though I think they could've pushed the strings back in the mix and space a bit more.


----------



## Batrawi

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Preferred the tone of LASS3, though I think they could've pushed the strings back in the mix and space a bit more.


yes, I also personally preferred LASS3 much more. TSS made me think "I'm probably still listening to midi"... but LASS?.... not at all! especially in context. However I think it was much louder in this comparison which may not be fair


----------



## jcrosby

Jackal_King said:


> A good comparison video with that compared to other dry libraries would be nice to see. I saw a video that compared LASS 2 and SStS and they both sound nearly the same. But maybe LASS 3 might be different this time around. If it's the same as SStS, I might save my bucks and get Genesis Children Choir before the sale ends.


Studio Strings is wetter, at least the _non-pro_ version I have is... While it's a tight, small room sound, I personally have never understood why people refer to it as dry; or at least dry in the way that LASS can be... Then again I don't have 'pro' so maybe there's a difference there...

Studio Strings is a smoother sound but doesn't have the gorgeous legato LASS has, and the shorts don't have nearly as much attitude as LASS's. LASS is a bit drier, and can be made almost bone dry if you turn off the reverbs enabled by default, kind of like the VSL samples that come with Kontakt's factory content. While you might find this challenging to mix as a standalone library the trade of is it can be used to add detail to just about any library. (This is my preference... I prefer it as a layering tool for added clarity...)

Studio also has a lot of articulations that LASS 3 doesn't... The other big thing to consider is that you get solo strings with LASS, you don't with Studio Strings.... So basically I find them to be quite different from one another... Not only in articulations, legato, and solos, but also in tone and space.


----------



## babylonwaves

muziksculp said:


> Oh.. a question for you, I see the Babylon Articulation Conductor folder for LASS, are those for LASS 3 sound-variations, or for the older LASS 2.5 ?


@muziksculp
early next year with the next big release. there is much compatibility in between 2.5 and 3 as in key switches I'm afraid


----------



## paul

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> $99 in Mexico? You got robed.


Is that a religious expression - "robed"?


----------



## alcorey

paul said:


> Is that a religious expression - "robed"?


For $99 it should have been "de-robed"


----------



## Jackal_King

jcrosby said:


> Studio Strings is wetter, at least the _non-pro_ version I have is... While it's a tight, small room sound, I personally have never understood why people refer to it as dry; or at least dry in the way that LASS can be... Then again I don't have 'pro' so maybe there's a difference there...
> 
> Studio Strings is a smoother sound but doesn't have the gorgeous legato LASS has, and the shorts don't have nearly as much attitude as LASS's. LASS is a bit drier, and can be made almost bone dry if you turn off the reverbs enabled by default, kind of like the VSL samples that come with Kontakt's factory content. While you might find this challenging to mix as a standalone library the trade of is it can be used to add detail to just about any library. (This is my preference... I prefer it as a layering tool for added clarity...)
> 
> Studio also has a lot of articulations that LASS 3 doesn't... The other big thing to consider is that you get solo strings with LASS, you don't with Studio Strings.... So basically I find them to be quite different from one another... Not only in articulations, legato, and solos, but also in tone and space.


I do agree with the legato from SStS not being quite as fluid and smooth as I would like compared to LASS 3 and a few other libraries that I have (8Dio Anthology and CSS). Almost everything else about it I really like so far. I like the dry libraries because it gives me the options to set up reverbs as I see fit during mixing. 

I don't use a ton of articulations like trills and pizzicato but I try to look at libraries that at least has con sordino and staccato in it.


----------



## wilifordmusic

For those that have actually read all of the above.

I use SA Studio Strings Pro and LASS 3.

They both have more of a traditional studio sound (not a hall or church).
With the SA Studio Series Pro, the additional mics do make a huge difference in the sound you are able to get without further processing.
With LASS, it is all on you if you don't like the natural sound or the "color/colour" profiles.

To me, 
Spitfire has a more polished or "produced" kind of sound without any additional studio magic.
LASS has more of a raw straight to tape kind of sound without any additional studio magic.

All the other stuff is in the ear of the beholder.

And yes, it is possible I may have been de-robed while being robbed.


----------



## Leon Portelance

I got LASS 3 yesterday for $99. At that price, I couldn’t say, no.


----------



## N.Caffrey

Can anybody points me towards videos or opinions on Lass 3 lite? My upgrade would be $79, so wondering if it’d be worth it


----------



## Batrawi

Soundbed said:


> something like this?



hmm... another thing I noticed in this video is that the sound had that REALLY bad "accordion effect" and it was no surprise to me to see that the "humanization" button was enabled by the end of the video/as below






That would be a really weird decision by Audiobro if they thought that having "humanization" enabled by default would be a good choice...but it's totally not!

I can see how this may be useful if enabled by default to create width among *solo *instruments/ in the case of MSB..... but trying to apply a humanization/detuning effect on divisi sections that already have their natural humanization/detuning baked-in amongst the players in the original recording?!!! that absolutely makes no sense imho and sounds totally uncanny. It's like trying to distort something that is already distorted. I highly recommend everyone to make sure they disable this (unless they need it in certain cases for aleatorics etc..).


----------



## AndyP

Batrawi said:


> hmm... another thing I noticed in this video is that the sound had that REALLY bad "accordion effect" and it was no surprise to me to see that the "humanization" button was enabled by the end of the video/as below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be a really weird decision by Audiobro if they thought that having "humanization" enabled by default would be a good choice...but it's totally not!
> 
> I can see how this may be useful if enabled by default to create width among *solo *instruments/ in the case of MSB..... but trying to apply a humanization/detuning effect on divisi sections that already have their natural humanization/detuning baked-in amongst the players in the original recording?!!! that absolutely makes no sense imho and sounds totally uncanny. It's like trying to distort something that is already distorted. I highly recommend everyone to make sure they disable this (unless they need it in certain cases for aleatorics etc..).


In fact, I only turn on humanization when I layer with LASS 3. And then also rather small humanization. 

I think TSS and LASS can be layered well. LASS gives a bit more contour, which in TSS sometimes gets lost in the vibrato. LASS also has a nicer vibrato contour, no idea how else I should call it.

Best I find LASS Divisi A or B layered with TSS violins, which gives a very nice and I think quite realistic sound.


----------



## Batrawi

AndyP said:


> In fact, I only turn on humanization when I layer with LASS 3. And then also rather small humanization.


I wouldn't touch the humanization in any case... even when layering, I would instead let the real different recordings do their magic & blend naturally. If you notice, the divisi sections *are in fact *layered in LASS3 / as shown in the video by Soundbed, and it's obvious how bad they sound when humanization is on. This effect will always sound bad regardless if you're layering within LASS or with other libraries coz the concept itself is the same: distorting the natural chaos created by a group of players when they were originally recoded playing together.


----------



## Jackal_King

N.Caffrey said:


> Can anybody points me towards videos or opinions on Lass 3 lite? My upgrade would be $79, so wondering if it’d be worth it


Same regarding LASS Lite. Each day I keep asking myself "do I really this it right now"? My current strings libraries are SStS, Anthology, CSS and Nucleus (last two I just got recently for Black Friday). I feel like I got things covered for what I'm doing but at the same time, I think one more library with a different color to the sounds that I already have wouldn't hurt, either.


----------



## Soundbed

Batrawi said:


> That would be a really weird decision by Audiobro if they thought that having "humanization" enabled by default would be a good choice


Yes I believe it's enabled by default. At least on the patch I showed in the video.

(I turned off Auto Divisi.)

I sometimes remember to turn Humanization off, other times I don't. I haven't re-saved all my LASS 3 patches with my own preferences, yet.


----------



## N.Caffrey

Jackal_King said:


> Same regarding LASS Lite. Each day I keep asking myself "do I really this it right now"? My current strings libraries are SStS, Anthology, CSS and Nucleus (last two I just got recently for Black Friday). I feel like I got things covered for what I'm doing but at the same time, I think one more library with a different color to the sounds that I already have wouldn't hurt, either.


I think I'll go for it. Watching the videos it definitely seems an improvement and I think I'll use it more often. Is it my imagination or LASS 3 seems to be getting more love than MSS?


----------



## Jackal_King

N.Caffrey said:


> I think I'll go for it. Watching the videos it definitely seems an improvement and I think I'll use it more often. Is it my imagination or LASS 3 seems to be getting more love than MSS?


Audiobro wasn't necessarily on my radar this year until I heard MSS a month ago and it sounds fantastic. But it's definitely not in my budget right now, especially with what I bought over the past few weeks. There seems to be a ton of love on here with MSS and more of a "I like it, but..." criticism with LASS 3.


----------



## Casiquire

N.Caffrey said:


> I think I'll go for it. Watching the videos it definitely seems an improvement and I think I'll use it more often. Is it my imagination or LASS 3 seems to be getting more love than MSS?


Definitely! I'm not sure who reaction to MSS is so mixed. Sounds great, blends with everything, takes reverb well, and sits just right in a mix 🤷


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> Definitely! I'm not sure who reaction to MSS is so mixed. Sounds great, blends with everything, takes reverb well, and sits just right in a mix 🤷


Like MSB, a couple of loud voices early on influences the crowd. We prefer to listen to others over trusting our own ears.


----------



## Jackal_King

N.Caffrey said:


> I think I'll go for it. Watching the videos it definitely seems an improvement and I think I'll use it more often. Is it my imagination or LASS 3 seems to be getting more love than MSS?


For $200, I think it's a good price for it with the features that it has including legato. And the fact that it also has first chairs/solo strings has me quite curious on how they sound. If it's worth the plunge as some has suggested, then I may try it as well.


----------



## Noc

Casiquire said:


> Definitely! I'm not sure who reaction to MSS is so mixed. Sounds great, blends with everything, takes reverb well, and sits just right in a mix 🤷


My guess is a lot of the negativity is in response to the early impressions when MSS was originally released. Much as I love it presently, I’ll admit the first we heard of it, with those default-on sends and full mix mic position, gave it a very muddy, stuffy sound that wasn’t terribly appealing. The legato transitions also weren’t that impressive at first, and the vibrato was a bit too flat. It’s the subsequent updates, with the “molto vibrato” button, legato transition speed controls and bloom attacks, that really saved the library and gave it a whole lot more expressiveness. But I’d guess some folks were unhappy with their first impressions and never looked back.

Same with LASS, in a way. I still maintain some – not all, but at least some – of the complaints about “harshness” come from users who never tried the Colors, especially after they were integrated directly into the patches with version 2.5. Not that they solve everything, or that some folks might not have other issues with the library, but I’d bet a dollar or two that’s at least part of it.


----------



## Tralen

N.Caffrey said:


> I think I'll go for it. Watching the videos it definitely seems an improvement and I think I'll use it more often. Is it my imagination or LASS 3 seems to be getting more love than MSS?


I believe that many have an emotional attachment to LASS due to its age and history, and that doesn't apply to MSS. LASS is a classic library, used in numerous demos, present in numerous conversations.

Hell, I have an emotional attachment to it and I've never even owned it or used it.


----------



## nickhmusic

Here's a 10 year old demo I did to mockup one of Nicholas Hooper's scores from Harry Potter 6. I used all the strings here, including the solos. Despite flaws here in my programming, I still adore the way the LA Scoring Strings violins "sing" as you ride that CC1 fader. 



I'm looking forward to the upgrade Andrew and Sebastian!


----------



## AndyP

A question for the LASS experts:

For short notes I layer LASS 3 shorts and the Cinestrings Solo which also sounds very nice. In addition, the articulations of both libraries can be controlled with inverted velocity which is very convenient for me.

What I do not want to understand how I can control the Marcatos alone in LASS without using the layer function. Why is it not possible (or not) to add the Marcatos as a third velocity controlled articulation like in the Cinestrings Solo?

I find the Marcatos Layer function in LASS 3 kind of pointless since I don't get the results I imagine. It always sounds awful and out of timing as I can adjust my playing to the velocity to the dynamic through the inverted velocity control per dynamic.

This combination of LASS 3 FC and Cinestrings Solo is great in itself, and Violin 1 doubled with Violin 2 of both libraries gives a very nice chambersound. But how can I setup Marcato like in Cinestrings?

Am I making a mistake in thinking or is this just not possible in LASS?










A short example:


----------



## Leon Portelance

Enjoying LASS 3. I wasn’t planning on buying it. Couldn’t afford to. But when I logged onto Audiobro it was only $99 for the update on Saturdat.


----------



## Casiquire

AndyP said:


> A question for the LASS experts:
> 
> For short notes I layer LASS 3 shorts and the Cinestrings Solo which also sounds very nice. In addition, the articulations of both libraries can be controlled with inverted velocity which is very convenient for me.
> 
> What I do not want to understand how I can control the Marcatos alone in LASS without using the layer function. Why is it not possible (or not) to add the Marcatos as a third velocity controlled articulation like in the Cinestrings Solo?
> 
> I find the Marcatos Layer function in LASS 3 kind of pointless since I don't get the results I imagine. It always sounds awful and out of timing as I can adjust my playing to the velocity to the dynamic through the inverted velocity control per dynamic.
> 
> This combination of LASS 3 FC and Cinestrings Solo is great in itself, and Violin 1 doubled with Violin 2 of both libraries gives a very nice chambersound. But how can I setup Marcato like in Cinestrings?
> 
> Am I making a mistake in thinking or is this just not possible in LASS?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A short example:


I don't own 3 yet so i don't have a perfect answer, but you should be able to get marcato outside of layering with shorts. Is there an accented sustain option?


----------



## Soundbed

AndyP said:


> A question for the LASS experts:
> 
> For short notes I layer LASS 3 shorts and the Cinestrings Solo which also sounds very nice. In addition, the articulations of both libraries can be controlled with inverted velocity which is very convenient for me.
> 
> What I do not want to understand how I can control the Marcatos alone in LASS without using the layer function. Why is it not possible (or not) to add the Marcatos as a third velocity controlled articulation like in the Cinestrings Solo?
> 
> I find the Marcatos Layer function in LASS 3 kind of pointless since I don't get the results I imagine. It always sounds awful and out of timing as I can adjust my playing to the velocity to the dynamic through the inverted velocity control per dynamic.
> 
> This combination of LASS 3 FC and Cinestrings Solo is great in itself, and Violin 1 doubled with Violin 2 of both libraries gives a very nice chambersound. But how can I setup Marcato like in Cinestrings?
> 
> Am I making a mistake in thinking or is this just not possible in LASS?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A short example:


Marcato is new to LASS3

LASS 3 has two types of Marcato

I don't think they recorded anything new though.

Previous LASS had Spiccato and Staccato.

The two Marcato styles in LASS 3 sound like basically either of the shorts plus a sustain, maybe? Like a Spiccato plus a long -OR- alternatively a staccato plus a long.

You can easily read the manual for options on how to configure them ... I don't have my drive with the manual handy.

Here is a video around 7:45 they demo Marcato:






LASS 3 Videos: Introduction To LASS 3







www.audiobro.com


----------



## AndyP

Yes, there are 2 types of Marcato. I can also configure them as keyswitches, but unfortunately I can't control them with the other short articulations via dynamic. This is a bit unfortunate, but I'm fine with that too.

In fact, the Marcatos are not real Marcatos but assembled from Spiccato, Staccato and Sustain. This is a bit of a shame as it doesn't sound that convincing in my opinion. I can play a bit with the release, but it's not really great. I thought according to the articulation table they were real marcatos.
But well, if it didn't exist in LASS 2.5, then it's a compromise. 

Thanks for your answers!


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

Soundbed said:


> Marcato is new to LASS3


for clearity: they were part of LASS 2.5, and now reused in LASS 3 ....


but as indicated they are not real recorded marcatos...


----------



## N.Caffrey

Finally managed to install LASS 3 Lite! Really nice new features and I look forward to exploring it more. One small disappointment is that I don't think multis with the ensemble patches are there anymore, is that correct @dxmachina?


----------



## dxmachina

@N.Caffrey We don't install the legacy content by default, but you'll find it in the "Optional" section of the downloader. Install it right into your LASS 3 Lite Library folder and you'll find the old multis and instruments are available.

In addition, it's highly likely that we'll have a new Full Ensemble patch in a coming update.


----------



## N.Caffrey

dxmachina said:


> @N.Caffrey We don't install the legacy content by default, but you'll find it in the "Optional" section of the downloader. Install it right into your LASS 3 Lite Library folder and you'll find the old multis and instruments are available.
> 
> In addition, it's highly likely that we'll have a new Full Ensemble patch in a coming update.


fantastic thank you!


----------



## Soundbed

Silence-is-Golden said:


> for clearity: they were part of LASS 2.5, and now reused in LASS 3 ....
> 
> 
> but as indicated they are not real recorded marcatos...



Interesting ... well, I was quoting the AubioBro website listing what's new in LASS 3 ... maybe there is something new about the way Marcatos were implemented? ...:


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Soundbed said:


> Interesting ... well, I was quoting the AubioBro website listing what's new in LASS 3 ... maybe there is something new about the way Marcatos were implemented? ...:


I think they called them marcato back then as well.


----------



## easyrider




----------



## Casiquire

Soundbed said:


> Interesting ... well, I was quoting the AubioBro website listing what's new in LASS 3 ... maybe there is something new about the way Marcatos were implemented? ...:


Ah makes sense. It sounds to me like they added a second marcato so it was worth calling the patch new


----------



## alcorey

AndyP said:


> Yes, there are 2 types of Marcato. I can also configure them as keyswitches, but unfortunately I can't control them with the other short articulations via dynamic. This is a bit unfortunate, but I'm fine with that too.
> 
> In fact, the Marcatos are not real Marcatos but assembled from Spiccato, Staccato and Sustain. This is a bit of a shame as it doesn't sound that convincing in my opinion. I can play a bit with the release, but it's not really great. I thought according to the articulation table they were real marcatos.
> But well, if it didn't exist in LASS 2.5, then it's a compromise.
> 
> Thanks for your answers!


Funny - I did a google search on Marcato to see how it is properly defined and I hit a gold mine!


----------



## Tralen

alcorey said:


> Funny - I did a google search on Marcato to see how it is properly defined and I hit a gold mine!


There is a famous italian pasta machine with the name.


----------



## alcorey

Tralen said:


> There is a famous italian pasta machine with the name.


Yes, I clicked on it to see where it would take me and






I'm seriously getting one!  Thanks


----------



## Casiquire

alcorey said:


> Yes, I clicked on it to see where it would take me and
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm seriously getting one!  Thanks


I have one. Wonderful. Homemade ravioli you can stuff with anything? Why doesn't EVERYONE have one?!


----------



## clisma

awaey said:


> can someone help me how to contact audiobro ? after i upgraded to lass3 i cant see anything in my account and they never sent me confirmation email, they deleted everything i had...and the money already us gone from my paypal account ....


Use this: @dxmachina 
Sebastian should see it and get in touch to help.


----------



## Noeticus

awaey said:


> can someone help me how to contact audiobro ? after i upgraded to lass3 i cant see anything in my account and they never sent me confirmation email, they deleted everything i had...and the money already us gone from my paypal account ....


email = [email protected]


----------



## awaey

Thank you for telling me ... I do


----------



## dxmachina

awaey said:


> Thank you for telling me ... I do


We did respond to your email today... if for any reason you haven't received it feel free to PM me.


----------



## Evans

alcorey said:


> Yes, I clicked on it to see where it would take me and
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm seriously getting one!  Thanks


Bought one yesterday as a result of this thread!


----------



## awaey

awaey said:


> Thank you for telling me ... I do





dxmachina said:


> We did respond to your email today... if for any reason you haven't received it feel free to PM me.


thank you for your help ,,,


----------



## Futchibon

Have been playing with LASS3 Lite the last few days. I have to say that while the basses and cellos are great, especially the shorts and the ART/Ostinato feature, some of the violas and violins are truly....well terrible, there's no other word. 



AndyP said:


> LASS3 is now installed (thanks to support) and I like the sound! Sounds partly already a bit out of tune, but somehow I like that because I get so a bit Sakamoto style of sound and I find that super charming.


Some of it sounds VERY out of tune, especially the solo Viola, which sounds like a screaming banshee. THe harmonics sound like they used a chisel instead of a bow!



borisb2 said:


> Just dont expect LASS suddenly turning into CSS or something. LASS stays LASS, keeping its bright and rosin character… but, if you learned how to tame the beast you now got a golden cage .. so to speak 😋


Any tips on how to 'tame the beast' which seems to be a good way to say it.


Nando Florestan said:


> At least MSS can be used rather than fought.


I'm beginning to see what you mean. The violas and violins especially at higher dynamics are not what I would call up to an acceptable standard for 2021.


----------



## Casiquire

Futchibon said:


> Have been playing with LASS3 Lite the last few days. I have to say that while the basses and cellos are great, especially the shorts and the ART/Ostinato feature, some of the violas and violins are truly....well terrible, there's no other word.
> 
> 
> Some of it sounds VERY out of tune, especially the solo Viola, which sounds like a screaming banshee. THe harmonics sound like they used a chisel instead of a bow!
> 
> 
> Any tips on how to 'tame the beast' which seems to be a good way to say it.
> 
> I'm beginning to see what you mean. The violas and violins especially at higher dynamics are not what I would call up to an acceptable standard for 2021.


Keep the dynamics low. Treat modwheel at 60 like that's forte, as if it was recorded with two more dynamic layers up top than most other libraries. That's really all it takes to tame most of the library. I can record a whole dynamic track without ever going above 90 and you'd never think it doesn't reach a high dynamic


----------



## Futchibon

Casiquire said:


> Keep the dynamics low. Treat modwheel at 60 like that's forte, as if it was recorded with two more dynamic layers up top than most other libraries. That's really all it takes to tame most of the library. I can record a whole dynamic track without ever going above 90 and you'd never think it doesn't reach a high dynamic


I'm perplexed as to why a library in 2021 would need this clarification. It improves the sections somewhat, but not the solo viola or violin. They are simply atrocious. woefully out of tune and screechy.


whinecellar said:


> Man, horses for courses I guess, but count me in the "almost" category. After all these years, I still go back to LASS as one of the "detail" brushes in my well-stocked palette.


I bought Lass for the 'detail' many talk about. But OT's BS adds detail, while LASS simply adds harshness. Any advice on trying to make it sit well with other libs?


Nando Florestan said:


> LASS, having been recorded by 16-year-old engineers with 12-year-old violinists, sounds acid, noisy, barbaric, in your face, and you can abandon any hope of making it sound like the demos. I can almost honestly say it's a scam.





Nick Batzdorf said:


> I SURE HOPE NOBODY BELIEVES THIS UTTER NONSENSE.


@Nick Batzdorf while I think the word 'scam' is harsh, 'sham' seems more appropriate. Can you list another library that has been re-released in 2021 with such UTTERLY ATTROCIOUS AND OUT OF TUNE FIRST CHAIR VIOLAS AND VIOLINS? It's simply embarrassing.

@dxmachina are you Seb from Audiobro?...mate, what's the story with these 1st chairs and higher dynamics of the sections? I haven't heard worse in my life.


----------



## Nando Florestan

My first language is Portuguese. I didn't know the word sham, but that's what I meant. I guess they forgot to feature the edginess of the first chairs in the demos didn't they. Now you've spent your money, what are you going to do.

"But you should learn to mix through months and months of ear training and thousands of dollars spent on mixing plugins and courses."

First of all, I did. Secondly... no, thanks, I just want to compose. Like you said, it's 2021. Or more.

You were misled -- not only by the demos, but also by some people in this forum. "But LASS was used in hundreds of TV shows." Same answer to this: you don't see Peter Siedlaczek re-releasing Advanced Orchestra, do you!? And those samples weren't even harsh at all. I think he accepts Advanced Orchestra was a product of its time. "Yeah but hundreds of users of LASS asked for 3.0". That's true, so go ahead and sell it -- but stop saying it's a tender, intimate, "detailed" library... It's MSS when you couldn't record, that's what it is.


----------



## sumskilz

I wouldn't use the terms "harsh" or "out of tune", but I'm pretty sure what those who are using those terms don't like about the sound of LASS is exactly what I do like. To me, they sound like real strings recorded in a studio, something I have a lot more experience with than working with VIs. It's not the sound of the polished demos of LASS I like either, it's the online demos where I can hear what they really sound like unpolished.


----------



## Futchibon

sumskilz said:


> I wouldn't use the terms "harsh" or "out of tune", but I'm pretty sure what those who are using those terms don't like about the sound of LASS is exactly what I do like. To me, they sound like real strings recorded in a studio, something I have a lot more experience with than working with VIs. It's not the sound of the polished demos of LASS I like either, it's the online demos where I can hear what they really sound like unpolished.


Then spend some time with real string players. They burst out laughing at LASS.

Real strings recorded in a studio? Try Afflatus, BS, Vista, the upcoming Pacific by the demos...


----------



## sumskilz

Futchibon said:


> Then spend some time with real string players. They burst out laughing at LASS.
> 
> Real strings recorded in a studio? Try Afflatus, BS, Vista, the upcoming Pacific by the demos...


Of course I've spent time in the studio with real string players, but obviously LASS wasn't involved, because there were real string players. I like the sound of those other libraries from what I've heard, but they don't have the somewhat dry close mic studio sound that LASS has. I suspect that type of sound, even if it were real string players, probably wouldn't fit your tastes/application anyway.


----------



## Futchibon

sumskilz said:


> I suspect that type of sound, even if it were real string players, probably wouldn't fit your tastes/application anyway.


That's right, I like my string players in tune!


----------



## sumskilz

Futchibon said:


> That's right, I like my string players in tune!


While I know there are some samples in there that are out far enough to cause problems, the reality is that the intonation of live string players is both context dependent and imperfect. I personally think that overly conforming VIs to equal temperament takes the life out them and makes them sound more keyboard-like.

I don't expect you to like it, my point from my first post in the thread has been that for some these are features not bugs. The bite and the loose intonation of LASS has been well known for a decade, so if you bought it recently, I can't see how either would have come as a surprise to you. For my part, I waited for LASS 3 to come out, to make sure they didn't try to "fix" these issues I was hearing that make it unique.


----------



## Futchibon

sumskilz said:


> While I know there are some samples in there that are out far enough to cause problems, the reality is that the intonation of live string players is both context dependent and imperfect. I personally think that overly conforming VIs to equal temperament takes the life out them and makes them sound more keyboard-like.


Clearly not the case. The libraries i mentioned are collections of players playing imperfectly, though the results are nothing like LASS. Chris Hein ensemble strings is unique in that he recorded the strings as soloists and mixed them together to try and get rid of the imperfections. 


sumskilz said:


> I don't expect you to like it, my point from my first post in the thread has been that for some these are features not bugs. The bite and the loose intonation of LASS has been well known for a decade, so if you bought it recently, I can't see how either would have come as a surprise to you. For my part, I waited for LASS 3 to come out, to make sure they didn't try to "fix" these issues I was hearing that make it unique.


They're neither features nor bugs, they're dated samples that shouldnt be repackaged and presented as new. None of my colleagues would touch LASS after hearing how bad it can sound (and good in parts, but very disjointed overall).


----------



## sumskilz

Futchibon said:


> The libraries i mentioned are collections of players playing imperfectly, though the results are nothing like LASS.


Like I said, I like the sound of those too, but they don't have the same timbre and small sections as LASS, which I like.


----------



## Futchibon

sumskilz said:


> Like I said, I like the sound of those too, but they don't have the same timbre and small sections as LASS, which I like.


I like some of them too, but am aghast at others. There's no way Lass 3 should be marketed as a complete string library, as some patches are unusable or extremely difficult, There's some really good stuff in there, but peeps need to know what they're getting, i didn’t get what i was expecting.


----------



## awaey

Futchibon said:


> but peeps need to know what they're getting, i didn’t get what i was expecting.


can you explain what type of string do you accept ? for me LASS is magic one of the best of the best...


----------



## AndyP

LASS has its justification and one likes it or not. If I want to have the "perfect" strings I use the VSL Synchron Strings. If I want some of the dirt and imperfection, I use LASS or layer with it.

If I want a special Hollywood sound I use OPUS, etc.

I find LASS to be a perfect library for layering, especially if I'm using a library that sounds too perfect or sterile, or too lush and needs some definition. Or simply on just to create a whole new sound.

LASS has an exceptional note in tone that no other library I own has. And that was the reason for me to buy LASS 3. Sometimes I want exactly that sound. Whether it's worth $400 is something everyone has to decide for themselves.
I would not use LASS as my main library either. But that was not my goal.

In the end, doesn't it always depend on what goal you want to achieve and what helps you to achieve it? 

This is also a reason why there are really "bad" libraries that are loved by some people because they meet their taste. And isn't perfection also a bit boring?

In this respect, I can accept every opinion on every string library, because everyone has their own individual view and a different taste.

I like tonal variety and probably that's why many composers have dozens of libraries, strings, brass, woodwinds. And some are satisfied with one library because it does what they expect.

Manufacturer demos often don't reflect the whole truth. They are spiced up with other instruments, show the strengths and rarely are they created out of the box without further processing. If you're not a total newbie you know this by now, and yet even experienced users are disappointed from time to time when they try out their new library.

Not without reason many demand the possibility to try out a library beforehand or to get a money back guarantee. This is in my opinion the crux and also a reason why in the forums so many questions about experiences and honest userdemos appear. 
One reason I like VSL is that they offer just that and I wish others would too.


----------



## sumskilz

Futchibon said:


> I like some of them too, but am aghast at others. There's no way Lass 3 should be marketed as a complete string library, as some patches are unusable or extremely difficult, There's some really good stuff in there, but peeps need to know what they're getting, i didn’t get what i was expecting.


That's fair, and to be clear, when I've worked with live string players it was overdubs on folk and/or 60s/70s inspired popular music, and that's the type of application that I think LASS seems good for. I don't consider myself qualified to comment on how well they'd work for any other genre.


----------



## Futchibon

awaey said:


> can you explain what type of string do you accept ? for me LASS is magic one of the best of the best...


QC is the worst I've ever experienced. Great stuff along with the unusable makes it beyond frustrating. I mentioned some libraries above, MSS is great.


----------



## Nando Florestan

But @Futchibon, did you try 11 instances of DSEQ on top of each other?

It's your mixing skill that is in question now. Never LASS samples, no no no.

Some people say "get it right in the studio, it cannot be fixed in mixing". That's nonsense. If you can't fix it you are the problem.


----------



## Futchibon

AndyP said:


> LASS has its justification and one likes it or not.


But I DO like parts of it, very much so, which is why the other parts are so dissapointing. I've never had a reaction to a library like this before.

You make very good points. I certainly wish other companies would take a leaf out of VSLs book in being able to try a library.


----------



## babylonwaves

Futchibon said:


> There's no way Lass 3 should be marketed as a complete string library, as some patches are unusable or extremely difficult, There's some really good stuff in there, but peeps need to know what they're getting, i didn’t get what i was expecting.


when you look at the comments older versions of LASS received over the years, one could come to the conclusions that either all those people are half deaf or they manage to work with the library in a way you don't manage to do. I agree that LASS is a library with a distinct character but what you're saying here as in the library shouldn't be marketed as a complete library is nonsense.


----------



## Futchibon

babylonwaves said:


> when you look at the comments older versions of LASS received over the years, one could come to the conclusions that either all those people are half deaf or they manage to work with the library in a way you don't manage to do. I agree that LASS is a library with a distinct character but what you're saying here as in the library shouldn't be marketed as a complete library is nonsense.


On the contrary, 'managed to work' is the operative phrase here, it's a deeply flawed libary that in no way should be considered today as a main workhorse. There are a plethora of superior alternatives.


----------



## easyrider

Futchibon said:


> On the contrary, 'managed to work' is the operative phrase here, it's a deeply flawed libary that in no way should be considered today as a main workhorse. There are a plethora of superior alternatives.


examples?


----------



## Inventio

I can give some quick feedback about my experience with LASS 3. First, I have to say that I love 2.5 and I have always liked it just for all the different ways I can set it up and use it.
However I have to say that I like to have everything on the same interface now, it makes tweaking things faster and this of course helps a lot in working situation.

I have also found some new features in the rhythm department, there are some more options in that regard that I like to explore more, useful to create rhythms and figures of repeated notes and patterns.
And I am liking the possibilities to extend the dynamic range of the instrument, like Nashville or Tokyo strings.

Was this feature already in 2.5 (dynamic range) ? I had never used it.


----------



## Futchibon

easyrider said:


> examples?


Afflatus, BS, CSS, CS2, MSS, TSS, NSS, SCS, VMS, Synchron Pro, etc.

BS, Chris Hein Ensemble/Solo and Westwood/Karoryfer etc., are great for blending to add more detail.


----------



## Casiquire

Futchibon said:


> I'm perplexed as to why a library in 2021 would need this clarification.



Every library responds differently to the modwheel. We need to learn every library's crossfades and pain points and dynamic range. What an odd statement. Plus LASS came out before I believe even Hollywood Strings which means its only competition was VSL with two dynamic layers. It's not like there was any type of modwheel response standard. And clearly throughout the years their focus has been on upgrading LASS carefully so that new versions work well in past projects and to cause as little pain as possible for people who've been using it for over a decade, so it makes sense. I think your responses are coming from a place of frustration right now and we've all been there, but it's definitely a library you need to get to know for a bit.


----------



## Nando Florestan

I learned the hard way that LASS was released after Hollywood Strings.

EDIT: This is wrong, it was before.


----------



## Casiquire

Nando Florestan said:


> I learned the hard way that LASS was released after Hollywood Strings.


The hard way? I'm not sure i even want to know? Haha fair enough, but the point is that it's not like there was a clear trend of dynamic response in string libraries at the time. In fact even today there are some libraries that don't go as high or as low as I'd expect. LASS on the other hand goes higher, and i think that's more of an advantage than a disadvantage


----------



## Nando Florestan

We are going to love Pacific then, aren't we. Be careful saying you can't make Spitfire libraries go to ffff around this crowd, though. They'll say you are poor at mixing.

Jesus Christ, I got confused again. LASS was released BEFORE Hollywood Strings. BEFORE!!! Sorry.


----------



## jadedsean

Futchibon said:


> I'm perplexed as to why a library in 2021 would need this clarification. It improves the sections somewhat, but not the solo viola or violin. They are simply atrocious. woefully out of tune and screechy.
> 
> I bought Lass for the 'detail' many talk about. But OT's BS adds detail, while LASS simply adds harshness. Any advice on trying to make it sit well with other libs?
> 
> 
> @Nick Batzdorf while I think the word 'scam' is harsh, 'sham' seems more appropriate. Can you list another library that has been re-released in 2021 with such UTTERLY ATTROCIOUS AND OUT OF TUNE FIRST CHAIR VIOLAS AND VIOLINS? It's simply embarrassing.
> 
> @dxmachina are you Seb from Audiobro?...mate, what's the story with these 1st chairs and higher dynamics of the sections? I haven't heard worse in my life.


Did you even read through the thread before purchasing the update? If you did, you would have know there are tunning issues with Lass, this could have saved you cash and the heart ache. Before i purchased the update i wondered if these issues would be resolved, however i have managed to make Lass work for me in the past and knew with an update to the interface it would make it even easier. Of course the tunning issues are still there thats something you have to work around unfortunatley. 
Maybe its a lesson to do a little more research and not to belive what you were told on this thread.


----------



## Duncan Krummel

I remain utterly perplexed that a library that has been around for over 12 years since it’s first iteration - with easy to access official demos, videos, and user demos galore - can still be misunderstood to the point of _blaming _the library for what is unquestionably a lack of research on the part of the buyer.

I really don’t like pointing the finger, but this isn’t a matter of AudioBro shiftily rubbing their hands and muttering “only TRUE mixers can use this library!” The raw and adaptable sound of LASS has been known about and accepted for… how long was it? Right, 12 years. It’s not that I am blaming anyone who does not get along with LASS for not getting along with it, but it’s ridiculous to blame AudioBro for you not getting along with it. Plenty of people do.


----------



## Casiquire

I'm not sure the conversation of "who's to blame" is productive right now. You've got a library that can do *a lot*. It's a massively capable library and there are so many situations where it's the best choice for particular needs. I'd try and learn the strengths of it at this point and you might find, over time, that it was money well spent


----------



## Duncan Krummel

Casiquire said:


> I'm not sure the conversation of "who's to blame" is productive right now. You've got a library that can do *a lot*.


Fair enough!

Edit: My main issue is two-fold;

1. I’m bothered by the main antagonists of the library using snarky jabs and attempting to discredit genuine help.

2. I made and consumed an entirely too-rich bananas foster for some pistachio panettone last night, and while absolutely the right move for my tastebuds, it was the wrong move for the rest of me. So I’m extra titchy today.


----------



## Casiquire

Duncan Krummel said:


> Fair enough!
> 
> Edit: My main issue is two-fold;
> 
> 1. I’m bothered by the main antagonists of the library using snarky jabs and attempting to discredit genuine help.
> 
> 2. I made and consumed an entirely too-rich bananas foster for some pistachio panettone last night, and while absolutely the right move for my tastebuds, it was the wrong move for the rest of me. So I’m extra titchy today.


That wasn't directed at you anyway, just in general to everyone here including the member you're referring to. It really sucks to get a library and then feel disappointed by it. I think there's so much it's good at, though, that he might come around to it with a little more time and experience with it


----------



## Duncan Krummel

Casiquire said:


> That wasn't directed at you anyway, just in general to everyone here including the member you're referring to. It really sucks to get a library and then feel disappointed by it. I think there's so much it's good at, though, that he might come around to it with a little more time and experience with it


That’s a good point. I certainly can’t claim to be a LASS expert, and my priorities for library functions are going to be my own. The tuning issues people talk about, for instance, are simply a non issue for me. I have yet to encounter anything that sounds out of tune to me. Far from it, everything sounds in-_tone_, which is far more important to me.

Perhaps if there isn’t one already, the more seasoned users may consider starting a thread of tips and tricks? Colin’s advice on the AB forums is such a useful thing, a more widely accessible version would be welcome.


----------



## d4vec4rter

FWIW I've just bought LASS 3 and although my experience with it is, to say the least, very new, I'm loving everything I'm hearing. I love its dryness and raw tonal character. It seems like a library that will blend in very well with others. There are times when I don't want my strings to sound too refined and clinical because they sound more "human". Looking forward to getting some tracks down with it.


----------



## Tralen

In the end, we always come back to the point that really needs to be addressed:

We need to stop accepting the no refunds policy. It is insane that we put up with this with products so expensive.


----------



## Casiquire

Tralen said:


> In the end, we always come back to the point that really needs to be addressed:
> 
> We need to stop accepting the no refunds policy. It is insane that we put up with this with products so expensive.


If only it were that easy. Unfortunately the vast majority don't offer that, and the last thing i want to do is be stuck with like, just VSL


----------



## amorphosynthesis

Wow!!!!
This whole thread takes me back 10 years.
That was the case back then,when I was wondering whether lass was a good choice for me.The competition was I think only Symphobia-which I never purchased and I am sorry to- and hollywood strings.I was VERY frustrated back then when I finally got it...it's an untamed wild horse,but one of a kind-you have to be a horse whisperer to tame it-and it really takes time.
I understant time is not on our sides these times,so I wouldn't recommend it to someone that has no time nor patience.Peace brothers and sisters it's almost christmas!!!!!


----------



## Noeticus

If all String Libraries sounded basically the same, then we probably wouldn't have need for them.

It is their varied sound that is often their greatest virtue. 

LASS 3 has a unique sound, and is therefore, to me, well worth the money.


----------



## dts_marin

Casiquire said:


> If only it were that easy. Unfortunately the vast majority don't offer that, and the last thing i want to do is be stuck with like, just VSL


Nothing is easy. They sure do adopt standards (Kontakt, VST, Paypal etc.) when it comes to taking our money. (even if it EXTREMELY annoying and hard for them to do so). I see no standard for refunds. And we won't see it any day soon because there is a crazy amount of deceitful marketing and outright fraud in this industry hiding behind the excuse of piracy.

And honestly with Kontakt the issue is valid but when it comes to other proprietary platforms like SINE I don't buy it. They had a chance to design the file format with security in mind but probably it costs so much they decided to skip it and instead simply not give refunds because of course piracy is still a problem! The want to have their cake and eat it and eat the cake of others too that though they'd get a good cake but it was under baked.


----------



## Tralen

Casiquire said:


> If only it were that easy. Unfortunately the vast majority don't offer that, and the last thing i want to do is be stuck with like, just VSL


But it is becoming easier, I think.

We can cut some slack to the Kontakt developers, but why are companies that have their own players not allowing refunds? They have full control of the authorization process.


----------



## Casiquire

Tralen said:


> But it is becoming easier, I think.
> 
> We can cut some slack to the Kontakt developers, but why are companies that have their own players not allowing refunds? They have full control of the authorization process.


They're taking advantage of what the market can tolerate, for sure. I'd like to see that shift as well


----------



## clisma

I'd settle for being able to just SELL the libraries that have disappointed me or have too many inconsistencies for me to bother with. Glory Horns is a particularly sore point.


----------



## Nando Florestan

OK, I have decided to give LASS one last chance. I have started a mockup and I would love it if the LASS users that got offended by my unmeasured words saw it in their hearts to help me take this mockup to its best possible state. It is obvious this mockup needs help right now with expression and mixing among other things. Only 2 minutes long, come on!






Vimeo







vimeo.com


----------



## clisma

Nando Florestan said:


> OK, I have decided to give LASS one last chance. I have started a mockup and I would love it if the LASS users that got offended by my unmeasured words saw it in their hearts to help me take this mockup to its best possible state. It is obvious this mockup needs help right now with expression and mixing among other things. Only 2 minutes long, come on!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vimeo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vimeo.com


Wow. If I didn't have a sense of humor, I'd be seriously offended by your wasting my time on a free Saturday. But hey, at least the piece is good.


----------



## chapbot

I cannot tell you what delight it brings me to read the midwits rant about LASS3 ♥️ They simply have no concept as to how the pros are using it.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

It's pretty obvious LASS has it's weakness. I heard tuning issues in a presentation or something so... But it's also obvious it has it's strengh as well. The shorts, divisi and tuning scripts etc.. Use it for its strength and use something else if it doesn't work. The last video was hilarious.


----------



## babylonwaves

Nando Florestan said:


> OK, I have decided to give LASS one last chance.


why did you post this at all?


----------



## AndyP

Where can I see what tuning Lass has? 440 or 442? When I tune Lass with Elite layer, Elite to 442 (default is 440) they are clearly more on the same tuning than at 440.

Not my day today. Found it. 440 Hz. What I doubt, however, very carefully ...


----------



## Noc

chapbot said:


> I cannot tell you what delight it brings me to read the midwits rant about LASS3 ♥️ They simply have no concept as to how the pros are using it.


I don’t think calling anyone “midwits” helps, no matter what you think of their criticisms. 🤷🏻‍♂️

This thread is getting a little more heated and snippy than it needs to be, and I fear that may discourage some people from participating – I know I’m less interested in reading it when it’s one hostile post after another. Some people don’t like the library for various reasons; that’s fine. They can express this without being overly snarky about it, or accusing the dev or other users of perfidy. Meanwhile, fans of the library don’t need to be defensive towards those criticisms; if you don’t agree with them, or think they’re uncharitable, responding with more insults isn’t going to further any worthwhile discussion.

I think it would be best if everyone accepted that not every library is gonna gel with everyone, and if you don’t like the results you get with it, that isn’t necessarily a flaw with the library, _nor_ with yourself – everyone’s taste is different, and what sounds good to others may not float your boat, and vice-versa. At any rate, it’s clear LASS has a lot of devoted users who love its sound (like me), including successful professionals (not like me), so calling it a “scam” or “sham” or anything else in that vein isn’t productive – maybe it’s just not for you. Personally, I don’t really love the sound of CSS (bit too dark and schmaltzy for me), even though it’s a favorite on this forum; that’s neither CSS’s fault nor my own. It’s just a matter of taste.

Of course, I’m not saying that some composers, especially beginners, don’t indeed lack the skills and finesse to coax the best sound out of a library. (We’ve all seen newbies who rammed their modwheel up to 127, used only C11 for dynamics, and then wondered why the library sounds too harsh. Hell, some of us _were_ those newbies at one point.) I’m just saying that’s not _necessarily_ the case. Sometimes even a skilled composer and a library just don’t gel.

Hope none of this comes across as scolding; I just don’t wanna see this thread devolve until it gets locked or something. 

Full disclosure: I’m a fan of LASS and have used it as my strings workhorse for years before recently switching over to MSS. (Haven’t tried LASS 3 yet though.) I also completely agree that LASS has tuning issues, which has been known for a very long time. That said, I’ve never found those tuning issues to be deal-breakers for me, as they generally disappear in the full ensemble. And for what it’s worth, the LASS solo instruments aren’t intended for solo work so much as for layering atop the sections to add extra detail. Though of course, lots of users end up using them as soloists anyway, myself included.


----------



## Casiquire

Noc said:


> I don’t think calling anyone “midwits” helps, no matter what you think of their criticisms. 🤷🏻‍♂️
> 
> This thread is getting a little more heated and snippy than it needs to be, and I fear that may discourage some people from participating – I know I’m less interested in reading it when it’s one hostile post after another. Some people don’t like the library for various reasons; that’s fine. They can express this without being overly snarky about it, or accusing the dev or other users of perfidy. Meanwhile, fans of the library don’t need to be defensive towards those criticisms; if you don’t agree with them, or think they’re uncharitable, responding with more insults isn’t going to further any worthwhile discussion.
> 
> I think it would be best if everyone accepted that not every library is gonna gel with everyone, and if you don’t like the results you get with it, that isn’t necessarily a flaw with the library, _nor_ with yourself – everyone’s taste is different, and what sounds good to others may not float your boat, and vice-versa. At any rate, it’s clear LASS has a lot of devoted users who love its sound, including successful professionals, so calling it a “scam” or “sham” or anything else in that vein isn’t productive – maybe it’s just not for you. Personally, I don’t really love the sound of CSS (bit too dark and schmaltzy for me), even though it’s a favorite on this forum; that’s neither CSS’s fault nor my own. It’s just a matter of taste.
> 
> Of course, I’m not saying that some composers, especially beginners, don’t indeed lack the skills and finesse to coax the best sound out of a library. (We’ve all seen newbies who rammed their modwheel up to 127, used only C11 for dynamics, and then wondered why the library sounds too harsh. Hell, some of us _were_ those newbies at one point.) I’m just saying that’s not _necessarily_ the case. Sometimes even a skilled composer and a library just don’t gel.
> 
> Hope none of this comes across as scolding; I just don’t wanna see this thread devolve until it gets locked or something.
> 
> Full disclosure: I’m a fan of LASS and have used it as my strings workhorse for years before recently switching over to MSS. (Haven’t tried LASS 3 yet though.) I also completely agree that LASS has tuning issues, which has been known for a very long time. That said, I’ve never found those tuning issues to be deal-breakers for me, as they generally disappear in the full ensemble. And for what it’s worth, the LASS solo instruments aren’t intended for solo work so much as for layering atop the sections to add extra detail. Though of course, lots of users end up using them as soloists anyway, myself included.


Agreed. There's a good conversation to have here, but we're not having it.


----------



## clisma

Noc said:


> Personally, I don’t really love the sound of CSS (bit too dark and schmaltzy for me), even though it’s a favorite on this forum; that’s neither CSS’s fault nor my own.


Alright, that's it. Get your gloves: you and me, outside. Now.


----------



## Noc

clisma said:


> Alright, that's it. Get your gloves: you and me, outside. Now.


S-surely you wouldn’t assault an old man with a cane, now, would you?

Ignore how I only bought that cane to close my door without getting up because I’m ̶e̶x̶t̶r̶e̶m̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶l̶a̶z̶y̶ very practical


----------



## clisma

Noc said:


> S-surely you wouldn’t assault an old man with a cane, now, would you?
> 
> Ignore how I only bought that cane to close my door without getting up because I’m ̶e̶x̶t̶r̶e̶m̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶l̶a̶z̶y̶ very practical


Damn, well played "old man." You get away with this only on account of you sharing my favorite quality of all: laziness.


----------



## Scalms

Ok, thanks everyone, now back to LASS3. 

There was one request I made some 17 odd pages back, still wondering if someone can help me out. I want to hear LASS 2.5 tone vs LASS 3 (to see how they changed/not changed the sound)

And almost every demo video from Audiobro is 90% talking about the features, and no sounds coming out, quite frustrating to me.

So, if someone has the time, can you please just do a like a one chord or one note crescendo through the dynamic layers of 2.5 vs 3, or a little ditty,maybe for cellos and violins?

you will get 5 gold coins if you do this

much appreciated!


----------



## muziksculp

Hi LASS 3 users,

I just finished batch-resaving LASS 3, it took a little while to complete. But it is recommended to do this, So... did you batch-resave your LASS 3 ?  

Now, I'm ready to begin getting acquainted with LASS 3. I have so much to discover, plus quite a few other libraries, so I'm going to be super busy with all the new libraries I acquired so far this month. 

But I'm giving LASS 3 the honor of being my first to discover String Library. It has so much to offer, and I'm super excited to begin using it, especially since I never used LASS 2.5. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## awaey

Scalms said:


> Ok, thanks everyone, now back to LASS3.
> 
> There was one request I made some 17 odd pages back, still wondering if someone can help me out. I want to hear LASS 2.5 tone vs LASS 3 (to see how they changed/not changed the sound)
> 
> And almost every demo video from Audiobro is 90% talking about the features, and no sounds coming out, quite frustrating to me.
> 
> So, if someone has the time, can you please just do a like a one chord or one note crescendo through the dynamic layers of 2.5 vs 3, or a little ditty,maybe for cellos and violins?
> 
> you will get 5 gold coins if you do this
> 
> much appreciated


I seen this video on youtube , straightaway I tried to use same midi from this video ,,,,just used reverb first Lass 2 second Lass 3,,,


----------



## troubleclef

Thanks for the comparison video - i'll take a look


----------



## Duncan Krummel

For what it's worth, LASS is perfectly suited for something like Ives' _Unanswered Question _

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wg0s4x7u9zh9kn1/Unanswered%20Question%20LASS%203%20%2B%20MSB.wav?dl=0


----------



## AndyP

awaey said:


> I seen this video on youtube , straightaway I tried to use same midi from this video ,,,,just used reverb first Lass 2 second Lass 3,,,



This sounds very good and authentic in many ways. What now and then slightly spoils the good overall impression is the portamento that is a bit unnatural and overprominent in the wrong places. I would have set the threshold further down. The basic tone is top!


----------



## Soundbed

Someone on my YouTube channel asked a couple questions about LASS. I gave an answer. They just shared this quick play on a keyboard:


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

awaey said:


> I seen this video on youtube , straightaway I tried to use same midi from this video ,,,,just used reverb first Lass 2 second Lass 3,,,



I think the second version is louder but thanks anyway.


----------



## muziksculp

Soundbed said:


> Someone on my YouTube channel asked a couple questions about LASS. I gave an answer. They just shared this quick play on a keyboard:



Not my taste, there is too much of that suction effect between chords. imho. not the ideal library for real time keyboard playing.


----------



## wilifordmusic

I posted in a parallel-ish thread.






SSS v LASS


I liked the sound of LASS on a couple of videos posted….does it bring anything to the table if I already have Spitfire Symphonic Strings Thanks and Merry Christmas! ❤️




vi-control.net




post #18.

It is more directly related to LASS 2.5 as far as sound and playabllity.
But, it is the same sample pool as LASS 3 with a new wrapper/work space.

I think my post on the other thread might be relevant for some of you.
If not, feel free to disregard or ignore my ramblings.

happy holidays, Steve


----------



## Futchibon

Casiquire said:


> Every library responds differently to the modwheel. We need to learn every library's crossfades and pain points and dynamic range. What an odd statement.


What other library can only be turned a small amount before its samples become unbearable? None I can think of like LASS does. Saying 'what an odd statement' is oxymoronic.


Casiquire said:


> Y'all. This is the best dev.


Is this legit? If so, please answer:

1) AUDIOBRO HAS BY FAR THE WORST DOWNLOADER OF ANY DEV I'VE EVER USED.

First they don't send you through the right link. Then it stops constantly. Then you contact them and they respond with a laundry list of what you must do - turn off anti-virus, turn off VPN yada yada yada, that no other dev requires. Then it still stops! You can't leave it to download overnight, you have to manually keep pausing it and restarting it. A 130 GB LIBRARY. And if you accidentally stop it instead of pausing it - HEAVEN FORBID - you have to request a reset and are charged another download fee! Disgraceful.

2) THE TRANSPARENCY, OR LACK THEREOF, FOR THE RELEASE OF LASS 3 WAS THE WORST OF ANY VST I'VE KNOWN

The only offical video is a 7 minute one that highlights the best bits of the library. It doesn't mention the unplaybale, attrocious parts. All other devs like SA and OT have proper walkthroughs that play through all the patches.

How can you say with a straight face this is the best dev?


Casiquire said:


> Ah makes sense. It sounds to me like they added a second marcato so it was worth calling the patch new


Is that a joke? You think they added more recordings? The 'marcato' is just a reworking of the shorts with a sustain. Dodgy as. Shouldn't be called new.



Nando Florestan said:


> At least MSS can be used rather than fought.


Agreed 100%!



jadedsean said:


> Did you even read through the thread before purchasing the update?....
> Maybe its a lesson to do a little more research and not to belive what you were told on this thread.


Can you see that you contradicted yourself within the same paragraph? Why should I take your advice when you can't even write a logically coherent sentence?


amorphosynthesis said:


> Wow!!!!
> This whole thread takes me back 10 years.


Where LASS belongs!


muziksculp said:


> Not my taste, there is too much of that suction effect between chords.


Get used to it, LASS suc(tion)s in more ways than one!


Duncan Krummel said:


> I remain utterly perplexed that a library that has been around for over 12 years since it’s first iteration - with easy to access official demos, videos, and user demos galore - can still be misunderstood to the point of _blaming _the library for what is unquestionably a lack of research on the part of the buyer.


And the official demos for LASS 3 are where exactly? There's a 7 minute video on it by Andrew, and the rest are actually MSS videos. The 7 minute one is a compilation of the best bits, wthout mentioning the terrible, unusable ones.


Nando Florestan said:


> OK, I have decided to give LASS one last chance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vimeo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vimeo.com


Funniest post of the year! 


chapbot said:


> Dear child, back when you were in diapers I paid $999 for the original version 😂


Ah, this is starting to explain the 'fanyboyism' of the thread. If you drop a grand or two on a library you defend it even when it becomes archaic!


chapbot said:


> I cannot tell you what delight it brings me to read the midwits rant about LASS3 ♥️ They simply have no concept as to how the pros are using it.





Noc said:


> I don’t think calling anyone “midwits” helps, no matter what you think of their criticisms. 🤷🏻‍♂️


That's OK, I'm just glad @chapbot has found a new word other than his usual 'ass' tirade!


chapbot said:


> MSS sucks and LASS doesn't?
> I'm sorry I just had to...
> I'll crawl back into my hole now 😂


Would you? Coz I can't take that statement at all seriously...


babylonwaves said:


> why did you post this at all?


Because Nando has a sense of humour? Which LASS users don't seem to have...


Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> It's pretty obvious LASS has it's weakness. I heard tuning issues in a presentation or something so..


Understatement of the year?


----------



## Futchibon




----------



## jadedsean

Futchibon said:


> What other library can only be turned a small amount before its samples become unbearable? None I can think of like LASS does. Saying 'what an odd statement' is oxymoronic.
> 
> Is this legit? If so, please answer:
> 
> 1) AUDIOBRO HAS BY FAR THE WORST DOWNLOADER OF ANY DEV I'VE EVER USED.
> 
> First they don't send you through the right link. Then it stops constantly. Then you contact them and they respond with a laundry list of what you must do - turn off anti-virus, turn off VPN yada yada yada, that no other dev requires. Then it still stops! You can't leave it to download overnight, you have to manually keep pausing it and restarting it. A 130 GB LIBRARY. And if you accidentally stop it instead of pausing it - HEAVEN FORBID - you have to request a reset and are charged another download fee! Disgraceful.
> 
> 2) THE TRANSPARENCY, OR LACK THEREOF, FOR THE RELEASE OF LASS 3 WAS THE WORST OF ANY VST I'VE KNOWN
> 
> The only offical video is a 7 minute one that highlights the best bits of the library. It doesn't mention the unplaybale, attrocious parts. All other devs like SA and OT have proper walkthroughs that play through all the patches.
> 
> How can you say with a straight face this is the best dev?
> 
> Is that a joke? You think they added more recordings? The 'marcato' is just a reworking of the shorts with a sustain. Dodgy as. Shouldn't be called new.
> 
> 
> Agreed 100%!
> 
> 
> Can you see that you contradicted yourself within the same paragraph? Why should I take your advice when you can't even write a logically coherent sentence?
> 
> Where LASS belongs!
> 
> Get used to it, LASS suc(tion)s in more ways than one!
> 
> And the official demos for LASS 3 are where exactly? There's a 7 minute video on it by Andrew, and the rest are actually MSS videos. The 7 minute one is a compilation of the best bits, wthout mentioning the terrible, unusable ones.
> 
> Funniest post of the year!
> 
> Ah, this is starting to explain the 'fanyboyism' of the thread. If you drop a grand or two on a library you defend it even when it becomes archaic!
> 
> 
> That's OK, I'm just glad @chapbot has found a new word other than his usual 'ass' tirade!
> 
> Would you? Coz I can't take that statement at all seriously...
> 
> Because Nando has a sense of humour? Which LASS users don't seem to have...
> 
> Understatement of the year?


Okay so, you would rather poke holes in what i wrote rather than answering the real question, did you research Lass before buying it? If the answer is yes, then you have no reasoning for bashing this product. Of course you don't have to take my opinion or anyone else's on this thread but it seems to me thats exactly what you have done and now you feel burnt by it. I feel this is logical conclusion. 

Now you feel the need to take out your aggression, possibly on the people you listen too in the first place, and now you call them fans boys. As it was stated in previous posts, Lass has its quirks and yeah, some of the tuning is terrible. I can only speak for myself as i did the research on this product and thought, even with these issues i could make it work, and i am glad i did. Others have also found a way to make it work for them. So instead of bitching about it, focus your energy on learning how to use the product, or don't, i don't care.


----------



## d4vec4rter

Futchibon said:


> What other library can only be turned a small amount before its samples become unbearable? None I can think of like LASS does. Saying 'what an odd statement' is oxymoronic.
> 
> Is this legit? If so, please answer:
> 
> 1) AUDIOBRO HAS BY FAR THE WORST DOWNLOADER OF ANY DEV I'VE EVER USED.
> 
> First they don't send you through the right link. Then it stops constantly. Then you contact them and they respond with a laundry list of what you must do - turn off anti-virus, turn off VPN yada yada yada, that no other dev requires. Then it still stops! You can't leave it to download overnight, you have to manually keep pausing it and restarting it. A 130 GB LIBRARY. And if you accidentally stop it instead of pausing it - HEAVEN FORBID - you have to request a reset and are charged another download fee! Disgraceful.
> 
> 2) THE TRANSPARENCY, OR LACK THEREOF, FOR THE RELEASE OF LASS 3 WAS THE WORST OF ANY VST I'VE KNOWN
> 
> The only offical video is a 7 minute one that highlights the best bits of the library. It doesn't mention the unplaybale, attrocious parts. All other devs like SA and OT have proper walkthroughs that play through all the patches.
> 
> How can you say with a straight face this is the best dev?
> 
> Is that a joke? You think they added more recordings? The 'marcato' is just a reworking of the shorts with a sustain. Dodgy as. Shouldn't be called new.
> 
> 
> Agreed 100%!
> 
> 
> Can you see that you contradicted yourself within the same paragraph? Why should I take your advice when you can't even write a logically coherent sentence?
> 
> Where LASS belongs!
> 
> Get used to it, LASS suc(tion)s in more ways than one!
> 
> And the official demos for LASS 3 are where exactly? There's a 7 minute video on it by Andrew, and the rest are actually MSS videos. The 7 minute one is a compilation of the best bits, wthout mentioning the terrible, unusable ones.
> 
> Funniest post of the year!
> 
> Ah, this is starting to explain the 'fanyboyism' of the thread. If you drop a grand or two on a library you defend it even when it becomes archaic!
> 
> 
> That's OK, I'm just glad @chapbot has found a new word other than his usual 'ass' tirade!
> 
> Would you? Coz I can't take that statement at all seriously...
> 
> Because Nando has a sense of humour? Which LASS users don't seem to have...
> 
> Understatement of the year?


My oh my! Someone's got a huge chip on their shoulder against Audiobro haven't they? What did the devs do? Kill your mother?

I think most of us in our music production lifetimes have purchased a sample library we ended up being not too fond of... I have. We may feel a bit peeved about it and the fact we can't get a refund on, what is essentially, quite an expensive product but, in general, it's a case of shit happens, that's the way it goes and move on. I've never entertained the idea of waging a hate campaign against the company and trashing them on the forums to this extent. Seems to me like there's more than a few producers who really like LASS 3 and what demos I've heard I've really liked. So much so I purchased it myself and, so far, I'm very happy with it.

So, what's next in your action plan? Seek out the Audiobro HQ and blow it up.


----------



## jcrosby

Futchibon said:


> First they don't send you through the right link. Then it stops constantly. Then you contact them and they respond with a laundry list of what you must do - turn off anti-virus, turn off VPN yada yada yada, that no other dev requires. Then it still stops! You can't leave it to download overnight, you have to manually keep pausing it and restarting it. A 130 GB LIBRARY. And if you accidentally stop it instead of pausing it - HEAVEN FORBID - you have to request a reset and are charged another download fee! Disgraceful.


That's your ISP. I downloaded MSS in one shot in about an hour. Nary an interruption.

That's also incredibly selective bias about VPNs.
There are plenty of sites that detect and disallow proxies, from software developers, to banks and payment systems, to streaming platforms like Netflix. Your ISP can see you're behind a proxy, hosting services can detect them as well. If that bothers you, you're blaming a developer (who may not even be the direct source of the issue) because proxies happen to also be used to perform data hacks, denial of service attacks, etc. The nerve of a site or host for protecting itself from the same method most likely to be used to steal data or IP from them, right?

Have you considered the fact that you being behind a VPN may have impacted your download speed and experience?


----------



## d4vec4rter

jcrosby said:


> That's your ISP. I downloaded MSS in one shot in about an hour. Nary an interruption.
> 
> That's also incredibly selective bias about VPNs.
> There are plenty of sites that detect and disallow proxies, from software developers, to banks and payment systems, to streaming platforms like Netflix. Your ISP can see you're behind a proxy, hosting services can detect them as well. If that bothers you, you're blaming a developer (who may not even be the direct source of the issue) because proxies happen to also be used to perform data hacks, denial of service attacks, etc. The nerve of a site or host for protecting itself from the same method most likely to be used to steal data or IP from them, right?
> 
> Have you considered the fact that you being behind a VPN may have impacted your download speed and experience?


Same here. Straightforward download, no issues, less than an hour.

Typically blaming the wrong source of the problem. A bit like the people who give a product one star on Amazon but didn't do the research and were trying to use it for a purpose for which it wasn't designed.


----------



## Scalms

awaey said:


> I seen this video on youtube , straightaway I tried to use same midi from this video ,,,,just used reverb first Lass 2 second Lass 3,,,



thanks much for doing this! 5 gold coins deposited into your VI account.

LASS3 sounds slightly more polished to my ears, and def more capable for plonking the notes in.


----------



## Casiquire

Futchibon said:


> What other library can only be turned a small amount before its samples become unbearable? None I can think of like LASS does. Saying 'what an odd statement' is oxymoronic.


The better question is, what other library can reach that extreme a dynamic. None that i own. Also "what an odd statement" isn't an oxymoron. Normally i wouldn't even mention it, but you're getting on everyone else's case for the weirdest reasons, so why not.



Futchibon said:


> Is this legit? If so, please answer:
> 
> 1) AUDIOBRO HAS BY FAR THE WORST DOWNLOADER OF ANY DEV I'VE EVER USED.
> 
> First they don't send you through the right link. Then it stops constantly. Then you contact them and they respond with a laundry list of what you must do - turn off anti-virus, turn off VPN yada yada yada, that no other dev requires. Then it still stops! You can't leave it to download overnight, you have to manually keep pausing it and restarting it. A 130 GB LIBRARY. And if you accidentally stop it instead of pausing it - HEAVEN FORBID - you have to request a reset and are charged another download fee! Disgraceful.
> 
> 2) THE TRANSPARENCY, OR LACK THEREOF, FOR THE RELEASE OF LASS 3 WAS THE WORST OF ANY VST I'VE KNOWN
> 
> The only offical video is a 7 minute one that highlights the best bits of the library. It doesn't mention the unplaybale, attrocious parts. All other devs like SA and OT have proper walkthroughs that play through all the patches.
> 
> How can you say with a straight face this is the best dev?



I say they're the best dev because they've been incorporating user feedback, continuously updating even their oldest library, and have consistently been responsive and ready to quickly help users in their forums. Are you sure this is a comparison in which you want to invoke OT, of all devs? 

Haven't had any trouble with the downloader. In fact I've had more problems with OT's downloader. 

And i fail to see what part of LASS3 isn't "transparent". They're twelve year old samples in a four year old interface. There are dozens of examples of both. 



Futchibon said:


> Is that a joke? You think they added more recordings? The 'marcato' is just a reworking of the shorts with a sustain. Dodgy as. Shouldn't be called new.


I didn't say they were new recordings, but it is a new feature regardless.


----------



## Grizzlymv

awaey said:


> I seen this video on youtube , straightaway I tried to use same midi from this video ,,,,just used reverb first Lass 2 second Lass 3,,,



Thank you so much for doing this. That's exactly the kind of audio comparison I was hoping for! Hard to judge multiple libs based on different demos, but when it's the same piece then you can really get a better feel for each I find. Thanks again.


----------



## Duncan Krummel

Futchibon said:


> And the official demos for LASS 3 are where exactly? There's a 7 minute video on it by Andrew, and the rest are actually MSS videos. The 7 minute one is a compilation of the best bits, wthout mentioning the terrible, unusable ones.


The… the samples are the same. The demos for 2.5 sound like they would be for 3. Perhaps even a touch smoother with the additional control.

Nah, I won’t bother anymore. You have so many people willing to help you enjoy a library you bought, but you won’t be pleased unless you make everyone else feel bad. Well, I don’t think you’ll win that fight. Most of us are thrilled with LASS, and will continue to be thrilled.


----------



## richhickey

I think one key to enjoying LASS is to always treat it as the full ensemble size, with the splits being strictly for divisi and not for smaller ensembles. Certainly when one solos A/B/C you encounter some bad tuning and unpalatable sounds. When I first picked up LASS I presumed I would be able to use the splits as smaller ensembles and found these issues to be blockers and was very disappointed.

However, when used as intended, i.e. only as the full sections with divisi, it all works wonderfully, and I think most people who enjoy LASS (as I now do) do exactly that.


----------



## Casiquire

richhickey said:


> I think one key to enjoying LASS is to always treat it as the full ensemble size, with the splits being strictly for divisi and not for smaller ensembles. Certainly when one solos A/B/C you encounter some bad tuning and unpalatable sounds. When I first picked up LASS I presumed I would be able to use the splits as smaller ensembles and found these issues to be blockers and was very disappointed.
> 
> However, when used as intended, i.e. only as the full sections with divisi, it all works wonderfully, and I think most people who enjoy LASS (as I now do) do exactly that.


I've found it also depends a lot on context. It might work for a certain piece. Otherwise using a First Chair to get the section to sound smaller is pretty effective too, or if one section doesn't sound quite right the other ones might. In context though the tuning issues are often not even noticeable imo.


----------



## Noeticus

Dear AudioBro Team,

LASS 3 is not perfect, nor is any library I have ever encountered, but it is empirically a very useful and unique library, and in my opinion, it is a GREAT library. You can easily be proud of the effort you put into this seminal library.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of you at AudioBro.


----------



## jcrosby

Casiquire said:


> I say they're the best dev because they've been incorporating user feedback, continuously updating even their oldest library, and have consistently been responsive and ready to quickly help users in their forums. Are you sure this is a comparison in which you want to invoke OT, of all devs?


110 percent.

I also don't want this reply to be seen as one simply driven by a pile-on mentality...
But this is so true. I honestly can't think of another developer as receptive as AB are. They actually take user feedback into consideration, then make it reality if/when/where possible. If that weren't the case we wouldn't have a 3rd version of LASS...


.....


As far as futchibon's frustrations...

In terms of the sentiment that AB are somehow attempting to repackage an old library and sell something old as if it were brand new? The product's title clearly indicates it's the 3rd incarnation. It can't be more transparent than that.

The page then goes on to answer any questions about what's changed, if the samples are new or not, etc. It even says in an image with large bold text: _LASS 3 includes... All of the samples from LASS Full 2.5, LASS 2.5 LS... _And it's not like audio files have an expiration date. The samples were recorded at the same specs that current orchestral libraries are still delivered in, 24 bit, 48k.



We've all made regretful purchases. This is just the reality of being locked into a sample platform where developers don't offer demos or a refund period. The only solution (if you can even call it that) is to watch demos, reviews, videos released by the developer. I won't patronize you, as you and everyone else here know the drill...

But that is the reality we all deal with being stuck with a demo-less, non-refundable ecosystem like Kontakt. And much, if not all of that comes down to NI never having taken the time to develop a system where demos are available for 3rd party products.

That said, trashing the developer by suggesting they're attempting to _pull a fast one _by selling an old product and pretend it's something new when the language clearly indicates it's the 3rd iteration of an existing product ... You're unlikely to win any arguments when the site and product name make it clear that it's an update not a new product.

You bought a library you're displeased with. We all have... Realistically however, your frustration should be focused on NI for building a platform where the inability to demo a product is a feature not a bug. I'm not saying it doesn't sting when you end up with something you're not happy with, but I'd be surprised if every single person here doesn't have at least one, if not multiple versions of the same story.

Maybe try and enjoy the holiday and put this behind you instead of carrying this around with you... 
I really do mean that...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Soundbed said:


> Someone on my YouTube channel asked a couple questions about LASS. I gave an answer. They just shared this quick play on a keyboard:



Nice, but - not to be overly critical, just commenting since this thread has posts from people who are overly committed to their incorrect opinions: the attacks at least need to be randomized a little for it to sound natural.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Duncan Krummel said:


> For what it's worth, LASS is perfectly suited for something like Ives' _Unanswered Question _
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wg0s4x7u9zh9kn1/Unanswered%20Question%20LASS%203%20%2B%20MSB.wav?dl=0


Is that v2.5 or 3? Curious about the reverb and trumpet also. Nice job and thanks for posting this.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

givemenoughrope said:


> Is that v2.5 or 3?


It's in the tittle of the track: "Unanswered Question LASS 3 + MSB.wav"


----------



## givemenoughrope

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> It's in the tittle of the track: "Unanswered Question LASS 3 + MSB.wav"


Ah thanks
Sorry, the file name was truncated on the phone


----------



## Casiquire

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Nice, but - not to be overly critical, just commenting since this thread has posts from people who are overly committed to their incorrect opinions: the attacks at least need to be randomized a little for it to sound natural.


I'm not sure about 3, but 2.5 did give some flexibility there. Any time i didn't like an attack or a swell I'd switch to a port or gliss and just speed up the transition.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Casiquire said:


> I'm not sure about 3, but 2.5 did give some flexibility there. Any time i didn't like an attack or a swell I'd switch to a port or gliss and just speed up the transition.


MSS offer different attack and LASS 3 use the same interface so do whatever you do with MSS to change the attack and let us know what's the result?


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> MSS offer different attack and LASS 3 use the same interface so do whatever you do with MSS to change the attack and let us know what's the result?


MSS is different though, at least from LASS 2.5. It doesn't let you compress a port or gliss quite to the same extent that LASS did. I assume that LASS3 didn't remove that function, but i can't be sure


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> MSS offer different attack and LASS 3 use the same interface so do whatever you do with MSS to change the attack and let us know what's the result?


Oh, but MSS does offer different legato transitions that LASS does not (soft and accented, bloom control) so you could shape MSS in different ways


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Casiquire said:


> Oh, but MSS does offer different legato transitions that LASS does not (soft and accented, bloom control) so you could shape MSS in different ways


But Nick mentioned the attack. From what i remember you control the attack by how hard you hit the key in MSS no? The attack didn't bother me btw.


----------



## Duncan Krummel

givemenoughrope said:


> Is that v2.5 or 3? Curious about the reverb and trumpet also. Nice job and thanks for posting this.


Thanks! As was mentioned, it’s v3: the Private Ryan Sordinos mixer preset, sans the color verb if I remember correctly. Took a 2-3db medium wide cut around 2k. Reverb is Cinematic Rooms Professional, though I can’t remember which preset. Westminster is a pretty common one for me to return to for strings. Trumpet is MSB Trumpet 2, mix mic with just a little close. The reverb was on the master bus so trumpet went there as well.


----------



## Casiquire

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> But Nick mentioned the attack. From what i remember you control the attack by how hard you hit the key in MSS no? The attack didn't bother me btw.


I didn't hear many straight up attacks, it sounded like mostly legatos, so i assumed Nick meant the attack of the new notes playing legato. I may have misunderstood that, but that's the context in which i was responding. You're right that both MSS and LASS offer different attacks on non-legato notes. I can't remember if MSS responds to velocity for the initial attack or if it's bundled into CC4 like the legal transition styles are


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Casiquire said:


> I didn't hear many straight up attacks, it sounded like mostly legatos, so i assumed Nick meant the attack of the new notes playing legato. I may have misunderstood that, but that's the context in which i was responding. You're right that both MSS and LASS offer different attacks on non-legato notes. I can't remember if MSS responds to velocity for the initial attack or if it's bundled into CC4 like the legal transition styles are


Yea i heard mostly legatos too so i guess you're right.


----------



## Soundbed

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Nice, but - not to be overly critical, just commenting since this thread has posts from people who are overly committed to their incorrect opinions: the attacks at least need to be randomized a little for it to sound natural.


I’m not sure I fully understand why you wanted to point this out … was it in case someone criticized it?

My understanding was that this is simply one person at a keyboard in one take. So I listen to it with that in mind. We have people in this thread saying it’s a useless library, even taking time to make video jokes, and in the midst of that discussion I watched someone buy it and sit down and play this at the keyboard in one midi track (using the sustain pedal).

Not sure if the mod wheel was a foot pedal, or added in another pass.

[EDIT — it was an expression pedal as per video description: "Audiobro LA Scoring Strings 3 short demo played real-time with a keyboard and expression pedal to control the strings dynamics. Raw sound with a little bit of reverb."]

If you’re saying the notes were starting at the same time and it would sound better if they were rolled or otherwise staggered to make it more convincing, cool. I think a lot of enhancements would make it better.

In the context of this conversation, I’m left thinking; Useless? No, it sounds pretty good for sitting down and playing.


----------



## Futchibon

d4vec4rter said:


> So, what's next in your action plan? Seek out the Audiobro HQ and blow it up.


Why would I want to do that? MSS and Genesis are great, while LASS has the worst QC of any of my libraries by a mile. Meatloaf said don't be sad as 2 out of 3 ain't bad, but in my case 2 out of 3 are great and 1 is severely lacking.


jcrosby said:


> Have you considered the fact that you being behind a VPN may have impacted your download speed and experience?


Yes of course I have/did. Yet the ISP/VPN worked fine for EVERY OTHER of my dozens of downloads from other devs, and when I turned off the VPN/ISP it still stalled. THey said a lot of people OS have troubles.


d4vec4rter said:


> Typically blaming the wrong source of the problem.


Hardly. The sections and 1st chairs are out of tune with each other. This is not open to debate, it's an objective fact. Several owners have admitted as such, but apparently it's my fault for not taking that on board and trying to make LASS work. Why bother in 2021 when there are cheaper and better libraries?



Casiquire said:


> Also "what an odd statement" isn't an oxymoron.


That's not what I said. Read what you wrote in context. And then look up the extended definition of 'oxymoron'.


Casiquire said:


> I say they're the best dev because they've been incorporating user feedback, continuously updating even their oldest library, and have consistently been responsive and ready to quickly help users in their forums. Are you sure this is a comparison in which you want to invoke OT, of all devs?


IIRC you don't have anything from SA? And OT - they're amazing, not perfect, but no-one is. Do you have the Arks? No. All incredible. The Times? Masterpieces.

If you don't have any products from SA and hardly anything from OT, how can you possibly say AB is the best dev when you clearly aren't aware of the competing products?

TEXTBOOK FANBOIISM



Casiquire said:


> I didn't say they were new recordings, but it is a new feature regardless.


And IIRC you don't have LASS3 so you haven't used the 'marcatos'? They're FAKE MARCATOS!!!!!

So in addition to having a laughably basic set of arts, and having a retail price of $599, they now have FAKE MARCATOS. Enough said.

I mean, Pacific is $499, CSS is $399, LASS retail is $599. It would be funny if it wasn't so offensive.



Duncan Krummel said:


> You have so many people willing to help you enjoy a library you bought, but you won’t be pleased unless you make everyone else feel bad.


It's not my intention to make others feel bad, my intention is to warn the poor souls who may be considering LASS to know how appaling it is. As a paying customer, surely I have that right?



richhickey said:


> I think one key to enjoying LASS is to always treat it as the full ensemble size, with the splits being strictly for divisi and not for smaller ensembles. Certainly when one solos A/B/C you encounter some bad tuning and unpalatable sounds. When I first picked up LASS I presumed I would be able to use the splits as smaller ensembles and found these issues to be blockers and was very disappointed.
> 
> However, when used as intended, i.e. only as the full sections with divisi, it all works wonderfully, and I think most people who enjoy LASS (as I now do) do exactly that.


Thanks, yeah that's what I'm finding. To reiterate, there is some good stuff in here, but it's easily the most uneven library with the worst quality control I've ever experienced. And charging $599 is obscene in 2021.



Noeticus said:


> Dear AudioBro Team,
> 
> LASS 3 is not perfect, nor is any library I have ever encountered, but it is empirically a very useful and unique library,


I agree with this statement as worded. But empirically, the sections and first chars are out of tune with each other. Name another library that has worse QC? And for $599. It's embarassing.


Nick Batzdorf said:


> Nice, but - not to be overly critical, just commenting since this thread has posts from people who are overly committed to their incorrect opinions: the attacks at least need to be randomized a little for it to sound natural.


Is this directed at me? Because if so, we may need to get @Mike Greene involved, as I have severe doubts about your ability as an impartial moderator. What is false about me saying that the sections and 1st chairs in LASS are out of tune with each other? Numerous owners in this thread have admitted as such.

Play the 1st chair Viola. How can you not become crimson red with embarassment?

Which other libraries for sale this year suffer from tuning issues to the extent LASS does? And they're expecting to charge $599 in 2021? Mike released SUNSET STRINGS which is clearly very well recorded and has excellent quality control. I got it for $199. And LASS retails at $599.


----------



## nickhmusic

Futchibon said:


> It's not my intention to make others fell bad, my intention is to warn the poor souls who may be considering LASS to know how appaling it is.


It's not appalling. It's a wonderful string library with some quirks and tuning issues, and a big learning curve to get it sounding the way you want it. Which often requires some engineering chops. 

Since its inception in 2009/10, I've written hundreds of pieces with LASS (among others) licensed regularly by production music libraries all over the world. 

I've even had several comments from developers of those music libraries as to how I got that realistic string sound.

Offensive. Yes, your posts are offensive.


----------



## Futchibon

nickhmusic said:


> It's not appalling. It's a wonderful string library with some quirks and tuning issues, and a big learning curve to get it sounding the way you want it. Which often requires some engineering chops.
> 
> Since its inception in 2009/10, I've written hundreds of pieces with LASS (among others) licensed regularly by production music libraries all over the world.


Which is precisely my point. It's 2021, not 2009/10. Why use an out of tune library with a woefully linited set of arts when there are much easier to use libraries, in tune, with great sets of arts, that are cheaper. No brainer really?


----------



## Casiquire

Futchibon said:


> Why would I want to do that? MSS and Genesis are great, while LASS has the worst QC of any of my libraries by a mile. Meatloaf said don't be sad as 2 out of 3 ain't bad, but in my case 2 out of 3 are great and 1 is severely lacking.
> 
> Yes of course I have/did. Yet the ISP/VPN worked fine for EVERY OTHER of my dozens of downloads from other devs, and when I turned off the VPN/ISP it still stalled. THey said a lot of people OS have troubles.
> 
> Hardly. The sections and 1st chairs are out of tune with each other. This is not open to debate, it's an objective fact. Several owners have admitted as such, but apparently it's my fault for not taking that on board and trying to make LASS work. Why bother in 2021 when there are cheaper and better libraries?
> 
> 
> That's not what I said. Read what you wrote in context. And then look up the extended definition of 'oxymoron'.
> 
> IIRC you don't have anything from SA? And OT - they're amazing, not perfect, but no-one is. Do you have the Arks? No. All incredible. The Times? Masterpieces.
> 
> If you don't have any products from SA and hardly anything from OT, how can you possibly say AB is the best dev when you clearly aren't aware of the competing products?
> 
> TEXTBOOK FANBOIISM
> 
> 
> And IIRC you don't have LASS3 so you haven't used the 'marcatos'? They're FAKE MARCATOS!!!!!
> 
> So in addition to having a laughably basic set of arts, and having a retail price of $599, they now have FAKE MARCATOS. Enough said.
> 
> I mean, Pacific is $499, CSS is $399, LASS retail is $599. It would be funny if it wasn't so offensive.
> 
> 
> It's not my intention to make others feel bad, my intention is to warn the poor souls who may be considering LASS to know how appaling it is. As a paying customer, surely I have that right?
> 
> 
> Thanks, yeah that's what I'm finding. To reiterate, there is some good stuff in here, but it's easily the most uneven library with the worst quality control I've ever experienced. And charging $599 is obscene in 2021.
> 
> 
> I agree with this statement as worded. But empirically, the sections and first chars are out of tune with each other. Name another library that has worse QC? And for $599. It's embarassing.
> 
> Is this directed at me? Because if so, we may need to get @Mike Greene involved, as I have severe doubts about your ability as an impartial moderator. What is false about me saying that the sections and 1st chairs in LASS are out of tune with each other? Numerous owners in this thread have admitted as such.
> 
> Play the 1st chair Viola. How can you not become crimson red with embarassment?
> 
> Which other libraries for sale this year suffer from tuning issues to the extent LASS does? And they're expecting to charge $599 in 2021? Mike released SUNSET STRINGS which is clearly very well recorded and has excellent quality control. I got it for $199. And LASS retails at $599.


LASS2.5 has a marcato. I don't need to own the update to know they're fake. Not even sure what your point is. And i own all the Berlin mains plus a few expansions, I'm not sure what your point is there either but you didn't address the attention to customer needs which was my entire point with calling AB the best dev and is a category in which OT doesn't come close. Actually OT is currently getting hammered for their QA issues so the comparison is a bad one no matter how you slice it


----------



## Zanshin

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> No offense, but it's unfair to blame the developer when you buy their sample library without doing your homework first.


Triple no offense but I don't think it's fair to blame the user in this case. I find that you really need a VI "under your fingers" before you can accurately judge it.


----------



## Zanshin

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> True, but then again: I considered LASS at some point, however after spending 5 minutes on Google checking user experiences, I learned about out of tune issues, harshness and so on.
> 
> Add to that the many videos on Youtube about LASS.


Sure, you might be more risk averse than Futchibon. We also have lots of users here who praise the heck out of LASS. Futchibon also loves other Audiobro libraries (MSS and the pedo choir). I'm really not surprised he stepped on the landmine even after it may have been pointed out to him lol.


----------



## ism

We've all been there. It's a kind of tax on building one's palette, at least, without having to use a dongle.

But I think it's also true that AB marketing is very detailed and technical, and does not fall anywhere near the flashy and obfuscation and manipulative side of the spectrum.

And also, it's ok for one person to experience certain issues in a library as dealbreakers. And it's ok for one person's dealbreaker to be another person's minor quirk.

Space for lamenting buyer's remorse is of course a completely valid social function of vi-c. But where we get into trouble is when someone want's their buyer's remorse to be a universal truth, and starts feeling "gaslit" (to quote another thread) by people with different experiences. But by the same merit, demanding that other's recognize this as universal truth is also to deny their experience.

So I think if we recognize buyer's remorse as a distinct and legitimate thing to express, but only one data point in the universe of critical engagements with a library, maybe we could avoid a lot of strum and drang?


----------



## Casiquire

ism said:


> We've all been there. It's a kind of tax on building one's palette, at least, without having to use a dongle.
> 
> But I think it's also true that AB marketing is very detailed and technical, and does not fall anywhere near the flashy and obfuscation and manipulative side of the spectrum.
> 
> And also, it's ok for one person to experience certain issues in a library as dealbreakers. And it's ok for one person's dealbreaker to be another person's minor quirk.
> 
> Space for lamenting buyer's remorse is of course a completely valid social function of vi-c. But where we get into trouble is when someone want's their buyer's remorse to be a universal truth, and starts feeling "gaslit" (to quote another thread) by people with different experiences. But by the same merit, demanding that other's recognize this as universal truth is also to deny their experience.
> 
> So I think if we recognize buyer's remorse as a distinct and legitimate thing to express, but only one data point in the universe of critical engagements with a library, maybe we could avoid a lot of strum and drang?


I don't think people are taking issue with the buyer's remorse as much as with the way in which it's being expressed


----------



## ism

Casiquire said:


> I don't think people are taking issue with the buyer's remorse as much as with the way in which it's being expressed


I agree. There's nothing to take issue with in buyer's remorse per se. If someone experiences a library in the way they experience it, that's of course perfectly valid. It's the implicit demand for others to share this experience that causes problems.


----------



## Mike Greene

Futchibon said:


> Because if so, we may need to get @Mike Greene involved ...


I feel like Beetlejuice sometimes ... 

Since I've been summoned, these most recent posts make good points:


Casiquire said:


> I don't think people are taking issue with the buyer's remorse as much as with the way in which it's being expressed





ism said:


> It's the implicit demand for others to share this experience that causes problems.





Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I think it's the persistence too. Expressing disappointment is only human, but you gotta stop at some point - don't go on and on about it as it simply gets tiresome for others.


Criticisms of libraries are totally fair game on VI-Control. That's one of the purposes of the forum, in fact. But scanning your last few posts, you gotta admit, you're playing that LASS song pretty loud and relentlessly here.  

I think everybody got your point, which is good. But when it then gets to the stage where _you're_ the topic, rather than the library itself, then it's probably best to ease up at that point.

For that matter, 1,200 posts in 10 months is a lot of posts. That's not a problem in and of itself, but bear in mind that most of the membership doesn't post nearly that often, so your quantity is going to be more noticeable. Even with a couple less controversial members, their high post frequencies can be problematic at times, where conversations get derailed, so I'm trying to think of ways to slow things down a bit so that normal-frequency posters don't get lost in the noise so much. Just something to be aware of.


----------



## chapbot

Soundbed said:


> I’m not sure I fully understand why you wanted to point this out … was it in case someone criticized it?
> 
> My understanding was that this is simply one person at a keyboard in one take. So I listen to it with that in mind. We have people in this thread saying it’s a useless library, even taking time to make video jokes, and in the midst of that discussion I watched someone buy it and sit down and play this at the keyboard in one midi track (using the sustain pedal).
> 
> Not sure if the mod wheel was a foot pedal, or added in another pass.
> 
> [EDIT — it was an expression pedal as per video description: "Audiobro LA Scoring Strings 3 short demo played real-time with a keyboard and expression pedal to control the strings dynamics. Raw sound with a little bit of reverb."]
> 
> If you’re saying the notes were starting at the same time and it would sound better if they were rolled or otherwise staggered to make it more convincing, cool. I think a lot of enhancements would make it better.
> 
> In the context of this conversation, I’m left thinking; Useless? No, it sounds pretty good for sitting down and playing.


Is that a poly legato patch? Is it full ensemble?


----------



## Soundbed

chapbot said:


> Is that a poly legato patch? Is it full ensemble?


hmmm .. Seems like a good question to ask on the video to see if the author responds.

There are three types of divisi legato in the (new) engine with various controls. (Tutti, Per Voice and Custom.)

So yes, I presume it was "poly legato," but I'm not sure if it was Tutti or Per Voice auto divisi.

I don't see a full ensemble "patch" in the most recent update so I suspect it was a multi. There are some multis provided (including legacy multis in my install) but it's also easy enough to build you own in a few clicks and they load up with legato on and auto divisi set to tutti.


----------



## muziksculp

I was checking if there were any LASS 3 independent in-depth reviews on YouTube, and interstingly, there are none.


----------



## molemac

I find Lass works well to add some realism when doubled with other more (in tune)libraries. Mss being a good example. The roughness/tuning issues help give more realistic life to the samples. The only thing I found was that the ABC chairs in v3 sound a little different in isolation compared to 2.5 so you have to be a little careful which chairs and blends you use as generally they can sound odd on their own.


----------



## d4vec4rter

molemac said:


> I find Lass works well to add some realism when doubled with other more (in tune)libraries. Mss being a good example. The roughness/tuning issues help give more realistic life to the samples. The only thing I found was that the ABC chairs in v3 sound a little different in isolation compared to 2.5 so you have to be a little careful which chairs and blends you use as generally they can sound odd on their own.


This is exactly why I like LASS. I don't want it to be "clinically perfect" because it will blend much better with other libraries giving the result more character and humanisation. So far, I've blended it wonderfully with Afflatus as it has similar tonal characteristics and it adds depth to Spitfire Chamber Strings. Even seems to work well with CSS.


----------



## Batrawi

molemac said:


> The only thing I found was that the ABC chairs in v3 sound a little different in isolation compared to 2.5


make sure to turn off humanization if it's on; it detunes the divisis even more than they are already


----------



## awaey

I see no reason for any complains.. audiobro made amazing string .. Lass isn't like no other string it is flexible and can be adjusted accordingly to how you desire , you can Chang the sound how you want to.... some string library have same sound and purpose and have a lot of similarity sound and there is no way to Change the shape or colour .


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

LASS requires some mixing and polishing, that's true. But not that much. I love the harshness, because it's how strings (can) sound. Haven't heard anything like this from any other library. It's a "raw" scoring stage sound without processing, more like you were on the stage with the players:


----------



## babylonwaves

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> LASS requires some mixing and polishing, that's true. But not that much. I love the harshness, because it's how strings (can) sound. Haven't heard anything like this from any other library. It's a "raw" scoring stage sound without processing, more like you were on the stage with the players:


thanks for posting this. it's true. for LASS (and also for AR2 btw).


----------



## Steelkat

I have been catching up on and watching the ebb and flow of this thread for a few days now 🙄😜. I have been a LASS Full owner since it was first released, and have kept up with the upgrades (free and paid) throughout the years. While unlike many of you I am more of the occasional, casual user, since I mainly produce country and Americana-style music and use strings as ancillary elements in my work. But LASS has never failed to deliver for me, and the support from Andrew and Sebastian when needed has been exemplary. Sure, it is a library that needs to be massaged at times to get the most of out of it, but therein lies the beauty and the genius of it. It can be very flexible if you work at it.

So to support the team and to protect my “investment” 😊, I upgraded to version 3 a few days ago and am delighted in the new-found refinements and overall ease of use. I have to say that up until now using ARC and Stage and Color was daunting at times. The new engine is so much more streamlined, and the implementation of Sound Variations in Studio One is a welcome addition. For the paltry 99 bucks it’s almost like getting a whole new library!

I also want to give hello to Casiquire, and old acquaintance from the Audiobro forum! Hope you are doing well sir!

Merry Christmas to all!

Tommy


----------



## Casiquire

Steelkat said:


> I have been catching up on and watching the ebb and flow of this thread for a few days now 🙄😜. I have been a LASS Full owner since it was first released, and have kept up with the upgrades (free and paid) throughout the years. While unlike many of you I am more of the occasional, casual user, since I mainly produce country and Americana-style music and use strings as ancillary elements in my work. But LASS has never failed to deliver for me, and the support from Andrew and Sebastian when needed has been exemplary. Sure, it is a library that needs to be massaged at times to get the most of out of it, but therein lies the beauty and the genius of it. It can be very flexible if you work at it.
> 
> So to support the team and to protect my “investment” 😊, I upgraded to version 3 a few days ago and am delighted in the new-found refinements and overall ease of use. I have to say that up until now using ARC and Stage and Color was daunting at times. The new engine is so much more streamlined, and the implementation of Sound Variations in Studio One is a welcome addition. For the paltry 99 bucks it’s almost like getting a whole new library!
> 
> I also want to give hello to Casiquire, and old acquaintance from the Audiobro forum! Hope you are doing well sir!
> 
> Merry Christmas to all!
> 
> Tommy


Welcome! Did we chat privately a few years ago? I think so. Good to see you here too.

And don't let this thread fool you, LASS has a decent reputation here overall (complaints about tuning and brightness of course but usually nothing unreasonable)


----------



## Steelkat

Casiquire said:


> Welcome! Did we chat privately a few years ago? I think so. Good to see you here too.
> 
> And don't let this thread fool you, LASS has a decent reputation here overall (complaints about tuning and brightness of course but usually nothing unreasonable)


Yes we did! We even compared notes on our Bombay mix cats! 😂

No worries, I know how it goes. And the brightness and tuning I have always been able to deal with. 

Thanks Casiquire!


----------



## Casiquire

Steelkat said:


> Yes we did! We even compared notes on our Bombay mix cats! 😂
> 
> No worries, I know how it goes. And the brightness and tuning I have always been able to deal with.
> 
> Thanks Casiquire!


I thought that was you but could've remember the username. This is a good place 😁 sad news about the Bombay mix, but i have the sweetest calico now. And i have a bunch of new fancy string libraries but i still reach for audiobro often so not much has changed


----------



## molemac

Little self plug but also for Audio bro @dxmachina and Lass3 (I see our unhappy friend seems to have left the building ) . I have just scored the opening to the new Harry Potter 20th anniversary film for HBO screening NY‘s day using LASS 3 and Mss. Its the only scored to picture scene in the film the rest is John Williams and library but my cue segways into Hedgwiks JW theme. Samples into 500,000$ Live recording. Yikes!


----------



## Casiquire

molemac said:


> Little self plug but also for Audio bro @dxmachina and Lass3 (I see our unhappy friend seems to have left the building ) . I have just scored the opening to the new Harry Potter 20th anniversary film for HBO screening NY‘s day using LASS 3 and Mss. Its the only scored to picture scene in the film the rest is John Williams and library but my cue segways into Hedgwiks JW theme. Samples into 500,000$ Live recording. Yikes!


And you plan to post links, right? That's awesome!!


----------



## molemac

Casiquire said:


> And you plan to post links, right? That's awesome!!


I dont think Warner bros would be too happy with that idea but its being screened on NY day . Heres the trailer (not my music )


----------



## Larry Dickstein

molemac said:


> Little self plug but also for Audio bro @dxmachina and Lass3 (I see our unhappy friend seems to have left the building ) . I have just scored the opening to the new Harry Potter 20th anniversary film for HBO screening NY‘s day using LASS 3 and Mss. Its the only scored to picture scene in the film the rest is John Williams and library but my cue segways into Hedgwiks JW theme. Samples into 500,000$ Live recording. Yikes!


Congrats. What are your impressions of LASS 3?


----------



## molemac

Larry Dickstein said:


> Congrats. What are your impressions of LASS 3?


I havent had enough time to explore fully but I like the idea of the controls being the same as Mss and simpler to use than 2.5. I had an issue with v 3 divisi sections sounding different from 2.5 but apparently that has to do with humanization being on or off. I hadn’t used Lass for 10 years until Mss came out and being slightly underwhelmed by `Mss lack of character sound but amazing features it was a no brainer getting Lass 3 for 99$ to combine and be able to dial the less smooth jazz character back in. Having said that I am still searching for the holy grail like the rest of us. But I am getting better at saying no. I didn’t buy TSS or Sonkinetik or Abbey rd 2.


----------



## muziksculp

molemac said:


> and being slightly underwhelmed by `Mss lack of character sound


I heard this more than once, what does lack of character really mean ? Does it have to sound odd to have character ? or ... ?


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> I heard this more than once, what does lack of character really mean ? Does it have to sound odd to have character ? or ... ?


Mainly that they're neutral. I see it as a strength; makes them really easy to blend and they don't draw too much attention to themselves. Compare that to LASS or Vista which have so much character that you might be able to pick them out, like how I've picked out LASS in TV shows before


----------



## Larry Dickstein

molemac said:


> I havent had enough time to explore fully but I like the idea of the controls being the same as Mss and simpler to use than 2.5. I had an issue with v 3 divisi sections sounding different from 2.5 but apparently that has to do with humanization being on or off. I hadn’t used Lass for 10 years until Mss came out and being slightly underwhelmed by `Mss lack of character sound but amazing features it was a no brainer getting Lass 3 for 99$ to combine and be able to dial the less smooth jazz character back in. Having said that I am still searching for the holy grail like the rest of us. But I am getting better at saying no. I didn’t buy TSS or Sonkinetik or Abbey rd 2.


Thanks for sharing your impressions, molemac. While I haven’t been crazy about the sound of several parts of LASS, the new interface seems like it would allow for yielding musical results much easier and faster than with previous versions of the library. Thusly, upgrading to LASS 3 would be a worthy investment - esp for doubling other libraries (in my case SSS) for more character and grit.

MSS and LASS 3 now your primary string sound in your template?


----------



## molemac

Larry Dickstein said:


> Thanks for sharing your impressions, molemac. While I haven’t been crazy about the sound of several parts of LASS, the new interface seems like it would allow for yielding musical results much easier and faster than with previous versions of the library. Thusly, upgrading to LASS 3 would be a worthy investment - esp for doubling other libraries (in my case SSS) for more character and grit.
> 
> MSS and LASS 3 now your primary string sound in your template?


Kind of , but I also like everyone else am never satisfied so I then say what else have I got , oh yea I forgot about those strings , let me try those again. (Being BBC,CSS,CS,Abbey rd 1, BS,etc.. The reason I went for MSS on this project was a/ its new b/easy to use and has all arts you need right on the main page . I added Lass3 to add some grit to the shorts ironically also because it’s new (-14 years or so) but also seems like an obvious sister to MSS particularly as it looks the and operates the same especially the look ahead. I started the cue not having used lookahead and not knowing how it worked and got into all sorts of trouble with the timing , offsetting all the midi parts to fit the strings etc… Then I watched the audiobro video (which I should have done in the first place) and it was more than simple. I didn’t realise you had to offset the midi track by the same amount as the gui -440.


----------



## molemac

muziksculp said:


> I heard this more than once, what does lack of character really mean ? Does it have to sound odd to have character ? or ... ?





Casiquire said:


> Mainly that they're neutral. I see it as a strength; makes them really easy to blend and they don't draw too much attention to themselves. Compare that to LASS or Vista which have so much character that you might be able to pick them out, like how I've picked out LASS in TV shows before


Thats right , what I meant was that although they sound very nice they dont scream out real strings , almost too smooth . The biggest give away is normally a high legato string line . I always shut my eyes and ask myself does that sound like midi or toofake and then try and find a way to blend something to add realism. If I know I am not replacing the midi with real strings for budget reasons I try and avoid big high lines or keep them buried. Neutral is a good place to start though. And I really like the auto divisi for string pads.


----------



## Futchibon

molemac said:


> Little self plug but also for Audio bro @dxmachina and Lass3 (I see our unhappy friend seems to have left the building )


I'm still here, but appreciate I need to tone it down. I'm looking forwad to watching your work on NY day. Perhaps going from MSS to LASS is more problematic than going from LASS to MSS. Are there any tutorials you're aware of that blend LASS with MSS? If not, would you ever consider doing one?


----------



## muziksculp

I recently got Sonokinetic's Orchestral Strings library, it also has divisi, and lots more great features. 

I love the timbre of the strings, they are very rich, and realistic sounding, and I think they have enough character for my needs. I upgraded to LASS 3 from 2.5, so I don't really think I need MSS right now, but I still might consider it as an option in the future.


----------



## bdev

muziksculp said:


> I recently got Sonokinetic's Orchestral Strings library, it also has divisi, and lots more great features.
> 
> I love the timbre of the strings, they are very rich, and realistic sounding, and I think they have enough character for my needs. I upgraded to LASS 3 from 2.5, so I don't really think I need MSS right now, but I still might consider it as an option in the future.


I bought Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings, MSS and also ... LASS 3. I just tried for a few days, I like all three and can help me with different things.
But I am really dazzled by MSS which is extraordinarily versatile. I have never seen such a degree of adjustments. Audiobro has put all its long experience in this product. After reading reviews of MSS's sound, I was a little afraid of being disappointed but in the end I found the sound to be magnificent (using the Close and Decca). If we add a little Lass 3 on MSS, then we add life, it's very beautiful. Finally, there it is!
Note that I am not paid by Audiobro to write this  . strings libraries, I really have a lot (too many).
Of course I don't want to influence you either


----------



## muziksculp

bdev said:


> I bought Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings, MSS and also ... LASS 3. I just tried for a few days, I like all three and can help me with different things.
> But I am really dazzled by MSS which is extraordinarily versatile. I have never seen such a degree of adjustments. Audiobro has put all its long experience in this product. After reading reviews of MSS's sound, I was a little afraid of being disappointed but in the end I found the sound to be magnificent (using the Close and Decca). If we add a little Lass 3 on MSS, then we add life, it's very beautiful. Finally, there it is!
> Note that I am not paid by Audiobro to write this  . strings libraries, I really have a lot (too many).
> Of course I don't want to influence you either


Are you trying to tempt me to buy MSS by increasing my GAS pressure ? 

I already have so many Strings libraries, do I need another one, the answer is always Yes for me. But I really haven't digested all the new Strings libraries I got during BF, and this month. So, I guess MSS will have to wait a while, my Loyalty price to get MSS is $399. I guess this won't change after the AudioBro sales are over, I hope so. (do you know if the loyalty price will change ?) 

Thanks.


----------



## bdev

muziksculp said:


> Are you trying to tempt me to buy MSS by increasing my GAS pressure ?
> 
> I already have so many Strings libraries, do I need another one, the answer is always Yes for me. But I really haven't digested all the new Strings libraries I got during BF, and this month. So, I guess MSS will have to wait a while, my Loyalty price to get MSS is $399. I guess this won't change after the AudioBro sales are over, I hope so. (do you know if the loyalty price will change ?)
> 
> Thanks.


>>Are you trying to tempt me to buy MSS by increasing my GAS pressure ?
absolutely not, I'm having fun 

We must both look alike, we like to buy ...

Someone reasonable would not have acted like that. I spent two or three sleepless nights before embarking on these three purchases. The BF is terrible for me, I try to resist but I cannot, I am too easily influenced.
But after a lifetime of work, I want to have fun.


----------



## muziksculp

bdev said:


> >>Are you trying to tempt me to buy MSS by increasing my GAS pressure ?
> absolutely not, I'm having fun
> 
> We must both look alike, we like to buy ...
> 
> Someone reasonable would not have acted like that. I spent two or three sleepless nights before embarking on these three purchases. The BF is terrible for me, I try to resist but I cannot, I am too easily influenced.
> But after a lifetime of work, I want to have fun.


How come you didn't get TSS as well ?


----------



## bdev

muziksculp said:


> How come you didn't get TSS as well ?


No, no, I stop buying because I have to work on these three and that's a lot.  
BTW, I paid 499 for mss instead of 549 $ as a owner of Lass LS.


----------



## molemac

Futchibon said:


> I'm still here, but appreciate I need to tone it down. I'm looking forwad to watching your work on NY day. Perhaps going from MSS to LASS is more problematic than going from LASS to MSS. Are there any tutorials you're aware of that blend LASS with MSS? If not, would you ever consider doing one?


« I'm still here, but appreciate I need to tone it down »

Yay! My mission here is done . It was a not so subtle way of saying Lass isn’t just rubbish but has its uses.

« tutorials you're aware of that blend LASS with MSS? If not, would you ever consider doing one? »

I can post a little example yes but you’ll have to wait till the new year. Happy NY to all in the meantime.


----------



## Larry Dickstein

molemac said:


> Kind of , but I also like everyone else am never satisfied so I then say what else have I got , oh yea I forgot about those strings , let me try those again. (Being BBC,CSS,CS,Abbey rd 1, BS,etc.. The reason I went for MSS on this project was a/ its new b/easy to use and has all arts you need right on the main page . I added Lass3 to add some grit to the shorts ironically also because it’s new (-14 years or so) but also seems like an obvious sister to MSS particularly as it looks the and operates the same especially the look ahead. I started the cue not having used lookahead and not knowing how it worked and got into all sorts of trouble with the timing , offsetting all the midi parts to fit the strings etc… Then I watched the audiobro video (which I should have done in the first place) and it was more than simple. I didn’t realise you had to offset the midi track by the same amount as the gui -440.


Thanks for sharing this. 

Considering you chose to use LASS 3 for your recent high profile project over one of your many other newer, top level string libs, it's quite an endorsement of LASS 3 and its ability to remain relevant and competitive today.


----------



## Fx2t

Hello!!!
I offered myself a little pleasure for Christmas by buying LASS 3! I didn't test it too much, consider it only as a little feedback, in order to show you how it sound in context.
After practicing the different patches, I had some fun composing (30 min speed write) with it. I could have spent more time on the programming but that wasn't the point, I was eager to know how it would all sound and I am very satisfied with the result!!! I enjoy so much the sound !!
First I improvised the Cellos, then the Basses, then Altos, Violins 1 and 2 and the First Chair of each section, I also added a Bohemian Violin track. On top of that, I added a solo trombone part (SM), a solo horn part (SM) and a solo Bassoon part (Embertone). For the positioning of the instruments I used VSS 2. About the Reverb, Eventide SP2016 (Short), Cinematic Rooms (Medium) and Space 2 (Long).


----------



## Terry93D

Trying very, very hard to wrap my head around the Lookahead feature.

I got the negative delay in place, so I can hear everything on time.

But the lookahead feature does _not_, apparently, look ahead to keyswitches, and those must be manually moved backward so that they take place 440ms before the actual articulation change. Which, IMO, is finicky and troublesome. This a flaw in the library's programming, or in Reaper, or am I just missing something obvious?


----------



## Casiquire

Terry93D said:


> Trying very, very hard to wrap my head around the Lookahead feature.
> 
> I got the negative delay in place, so I can hear everything on time.
> 
> But the lookahead feature does _not_, apparently, look ahead to keyswitches, and those must be manually moved backward so that they take place 440ms before the actual articulation change. Which, IMO, is finicky and troublesome. This a flaw in the library's programming, or in Reaper, or am I just missing something obvious?


I think that's something they're working on but don't quote me. The lookahead had a couple little bugs right when i got the library but a lot of them have been worked out by now; i have to imagine this is something on their radar too


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Terry93D said:


> Trying very, very hard to wrap my head around the Lookahead feature.
> 
> I got the negative delay in place, so I can hear everything on time.
> 
> But the lookahead feature does _not_, apparently, look ahead to keyswitches, and those must be manually moved backward so that they take place 440ms before the actual articulation change. Which, IMO, is finicky and troublesome. This a flaw in the library's programming, or in Reaper, or am I just missing something obvious?


Works perfect in Cubase with expression maps.


----------



## Henu

ALittleNightMusic said:


> expression maps.


Here's one thing I learned just a while ago: that works perfectly fine with _attributes_ only. Not with directions.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Henu said:


> Here's one thing I learned just a while ago: that works perfectly fine with _attributes_ only. Not with directions.


Yup - I only ever use attributes. Direction management in Cubase right now is horrendous.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Fx2t said:


> Hello!!!
> I offered myself a little pleasure for Christmas by buying LASS 3! I didn't test it too much, consider it only as a little feedback, in order to show you how it sound in context.
> After practicing the different patches, I had some fun composing (30 min speed write) with it. I could have spent more time on the programming but that wasn't the point, I was eager to know how it would all sound and I am very satisfied with the result!!! I enjoy so much the sound !!
> First I improvised the Cellos, then the Basses, then Altos, Violins 1 and 2 and the First Chair of each section, I also added a Bohemian Violin track. On top of that, I added a solo trombone part (SM), a solo horn part (SM) and a solo Bassoon part (Embertone). For the positioning of the instruments I used VSS 2. About the Reverb, Eventide SP2016 (Short), Cinematic Rooms (Medium) and Space 2 (Long).



Did you use sordinos in those? And with EQs or raw? Thanks.


----------



## Juulu

Fx2t said:


> Hello!!!
> I offered myself a little pleasure for Christmas by buying LASS 3! I didn't test it too much, consider it only as a little feedback, in order to show you how it sound in context.
> After practicing the different patches, I had some fun composing (30 min speed write) with it. I could have spent more time on the programming but that wasn't the point, I was eager to know how it would all sound and I am very satisfied with the result!!! I enjoy so much the sound !!
> First I improvised the Cellos, then the Basses, then Altos, Violins 1 and 2 and the First Chair of each section, I also added a Bohemian Violin track. On top of that, I added a solo trombone part (SM), a solo horn part (SM) and a solo Bassoon part (Embertone). For the positioning of the instruments I used VSS 2. About the Reverb, Eventide SP2016 (Short), Cinematic Rooms (Medium) and Space 2 (Long).



Wow this effectively just sold me on this library! I've been trying my damndest to find full walkthroughs/reviews/demos for LASS 3 for almost a month haha. The few that I can find feel like they're poorly composed, or are super old (a lot of such videos being made 10 years ago). I absolutely love the character the strings have. Despite how harsh they sound, they feel strangely intimate to me. Thank you for this.


----------



## Vik

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I love the harshness, because it's how strings (can) sound. Haven't heard anything like this from any other library. It's a "raw" scoring stage sound without processing, more like you were on the stage with the players:



...except that if one would on the stage with those players, and have two functioning ears, you'd hear stereo/surround and not the painful mono in that clip.  I actually think that both LASS and especially hearing strings on stage with the players can sound totally amazing, and several of the LASS demos I've heard (without reverb or other effects) also do.

This is a LASS track I came across a while ago, and especially the last half sounds convincing to me...









Barber Adagio w_ LASS.mp3 | Powered by Box







app.box.com





...and this is done only using ARC + the Private Ryan preset. There may be some funky pitches and notes in there (if they aren't fixed in v.3?), but to me (don't listen to me, I don't own LASS) it seems to be easy to make great sounding stuff with LASS – especially based on demos and tracks posted by others than Audiobro.


----------



## filipjonathan

How fitting would this library be for an intimate, pop production? Do the divisi sections have all articulations? And how flexible are they?


----------



## Fx2t

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Did you use sordinos in those? And with EQs or raw? Thanks.


I didn't use the sordino patches. I did some EQ on the strings (Violins II, Violas and Basses). On the master bus, I just put a little bit of Clariphonic EQ (Kush) et voilà ^^


----------



## LHall

filipjonathan said:


> How fitting would this library be for an intimate, pop production? Do the divisi sections have all articulations? And how flexible are they?


I do a lot of backing for pop productions. They work fantastic for pop. Yes - the divisi sections each have all the articulations including port and gliss. Also, layering the sordinos give you some beautiful lush strings if you're doing something very intimate or soft jazzy.


----------



## Living Fossil

Terry93D said:


> But the lookahead feature does _not_, apparently, look ahead to keyswitches, and those must be manually moved backward so that they take place 440ms before the actual articulation change. Which, IMO, is finicky and troublesome. This a flaw in the library's programming, or in Reaper, or am I just missing something obvious?


If you go to the Audiobro forum, there is a thread regarding this issue (started by myself).
I'm confident it will be fixed.


----------



## Casiquire

filipjonathan said:


> How fitting would this library be for an intimate, pop production? Do the divisi sections have all articulations? And how flexible are they?


These are *ideal* for an intimate pop production. The divisis have all articulations, though i tend to suggest using the bigger sections anyway unless you're actually splitting sections between notes. And @LHall ...words of wisdom


----------



## filipjonathan

@LHall @Casiquire thanks! Why would I go for these instead of SCS? (I know these are dry as opposed to SCS, but I like the chamber size of SCS) I've been wanting SCS for a long time, but if LASS3 is better for what I need I'd get it instead.


----------



## Casiquire

filipjonathan said:


> @LHall @Casiquire thanks! Why would I go for these instead of SCS? (I know these are dry as opposed to SCS, but I like the chamber size of SCS) I've been wanting SCS for a long time, but if LASS3 is better for what I need I'd get it instead.


I don't own SCS, so grain of salt. But they are very different libraries for very different uses. If you are doing a warm and slow, calm ballad, maybe SCS fits the bill, but it won't sound as close. If you're doing anything faster, louder, closer, or with a busier mix, LASS gets an upper hand. It can play softly as well, and sounds really nice in the low range, but it gets exceptionally loud and bright. I do think SCS has a "better sound" overall, but LASS can morph into anything you want (bright, warm, wet, dry, big, small, loud, quiet), the scripting is flawless, and it's consistent and reliable in use. Plus true divisi, and first chairs, and the beautiful sordinos...well there's a reason i chose it over things like SCS


----------



## filipjonathan

Casiquire said:


> I don't own SCS, so grain of salt. But they are very different libraries for very different uses. If you are doing a warm and slow, calm ballad, maybe SCS fits the bill, but it won't sound as close. If you're doing anything faster, louder, closer, or with a busier mix, LASS gets an upper hand. It can play softly as well, and sounds really nice in the low range, but it gets exceptionally loud and bright. I do think SCS has a "better sound" overall, but LASS can morph into anything you want (bright, warm, wet, dry, big, small, loud, quiet), the scripting is flawless, and it's consistent and reliable in use. Plus true divisi, and first chairs, and the beautiful sordinos...well there's a reason i chose it over things like SCS


Ugh, now I'm totally torn between the two 😅


----------



## Casiquire

filipjonathan said:


> Ugh, now I'm totally torn between the two 😅


That's the way it goes! Lol but i don't think you'd be disappointed by either choice. I clearly love LASS but dang SCS can sound magical sometimes


----------



## muziksculp

filipjonathan said:


> Ugh, now I'm totally torn between the two 😅


You know the solution is very easy ... You get both. and Relax.


----------



## wilifordmusic

muziksculp said:


> You know the solution is very easy ... You get both. and Relax.


Naughty, naughty. You shouldn't encourage such things. 

I have both.

SCS gives more of a finished/produced smooth string sound.
LASS gives more of a raw string sound that can be modified in a variety of ways.

Sometimes one is the right choice, and sometimes the other works better.
Maybe you should buy both. 

ps SCS does have a shitload more string techniques and fx options. LASS is bread and butter.


----------



## Noeticus

filipjonathan said:


> @LHall @Casiquire thanks! Why would I go for these instead of SCS? (I know these are dry as opposed to SCS, but I like the chamber size of SCS) I've been wanting SCS for a long time, but if LASS3 is better for what I need I'd get it instead.


I think that SCS is the best library that Spitfire offers. But, for larger section sizes LASS 3 or MSS are the way to go... so GET THEM ALL... HAHHAHHAHAHAH.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

filipjonathan said:


> Ugh, now I'm totally torn between the two 😅


I've been looking into SCS a lot lately and I'd go with SCS without hesitation. Of course taste matters a lot so listen carefully.


----------



## muziksculp

Are there any demos of SCS used in a Pop track ?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

muziksculp said:


> Are there any demos of SCS used in a Pop track ?


----------



## muziksculp

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


>



Thanks. I couldn't read the notes since they are in Japanese. But I trust they mention SCS being used, or you know that. SCS sound more in the background in this style track, not too upfront, I think LASS can be a bit more upfront, and intimate sounding.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

muziksculp said:


> Thanks. I couldn't read the notes since they are in Japanese. But I trust they mention SCS being used, or you know that. SCS sound more in the background in this style track, not too upfront, I think LASS can be a bit more upfront, and intimate sounding.


Someone posted this video in an other thread here on vi-c. Yea SCS was recorded at AIR(a modified church) so it's be harder to get that in your face sound for sure compare to LASS.


----------



## muziksculp

filipjonathan said:


> How fitting would this library be for an intimate, pop production? Do the divisi sections have all articulations? And how flexible are they?


Have you considered *Chris Hein Strings* ? 

They appear to be popular, and very suitable for Pop production.


----------



## muziksculp

Chris Hein Strings in Pop production :


----------



## muziksculp

This one uses Chris Hein, 8dio, and Spitfire Strings :


----------



## muziksculp

Chris Hein Strings


----------



## filipjonathan

muziksculp said:


> Have you considered *Chris Hein Strings* ?
> 
> They appear to be popular, and very suitable for Pop production.


No. Honestly I _hate_ multiple choices 😂 I'd rather not even look into Chris Hein since it's just going to be a headache to decide which library to get, and I really can't get them all 😅


----------



## filipjonathan

muziksculp said:


> Have you considered *Chris Hein Strings* ?
> 
> They appear to be popular, and very suitable for Pop production.


I'll check out the videos though. Maybe I change my mind. 😂


----------



## Vik

muziksculp said:


> You know the solution is very easy ... You get both. and Relax.


Be warned: never listen to Muzicsculp. 😄 He's a full time string librarian who tries to find arguments for buying the few string libraries he haven't already bought. Yes – the reason he recommends us to buy even the libraries he doesn't have is a hope that some of us later will provide him with arguments for buying them.


----------



## LHall

filipjonathan said:


> @LHall @Casiquire thanks! Why would I go for these instead of SCS? (I know these are dry as opposed to SCS, but I like the chamber size of SCS) I've been wanting SCS for a long time, but if LASS3 is better for what I need I'd get it instead.


I don't have SCS, so I can't answer that. If you'd like to hear some examples, you can go to my website: https://www.larryhallproductions.com and check out the four songs on the landing page. They all are LASS (Vs 2.5, but Vs 3 is even better in terms of ease of use).


----------



## filipjonathan

LHall said:


> I don't have SCS, so I can't answer that. If you'd like to hear some examples, you can go to my website: https://www.larryhallproductions.com and check out the four songs on the landing page. They all are LASS (Vs 2.5, but Vs 3 is even better in terms of ease of use).


Thanks! Will give them a listen.


----------



## molemac

Futchibon said:


> I'm still here, but appreciate I need to tone it down. I'm looking forwad to watching your work on NY day. Perhaps going from MSS to LASS is more problematic than going from LASS to MSS. Are there any tutorials you're aware of that blend LASS with MSS? If not, would you ever consider doing one?


Hi , So I hope you all enjoyed weeping at Emma Watson et al . Here as promised are some examples of using MSS and Lass3 together (I realize this is not the best example as its shorts only but I didnt feel happy exposing the high legato strings as samples always sound fake in my hands anyway). But I think you can see that they benefit from being doubled by each other ie dont sound that great on their own. Kind of tragic that I had to do this with samples but there you go apparently no budget go figure.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

molemac said:


> Hi , So I hope you all enjoyed weeping at Emma Watson et al . Here as promised are some examples of using MSS and Lass3 together (I realize this is not the best example as its shorts only but I didnt feel happy exposing the high legato strings as samples always sound fake in my hands anyway). But I think you can see that they benefit from being doubled by each other ie dont sound that great on their own. Kind of tragic that I had to do this with samples but there you go apparently no budget go figure.


One of my favorite cues from the special - great job!


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> One of my favorite cues from the special - great job!


What special program/movie is that ?


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> What special program/movie is that ?





molemac said:


> I dont think Warner bros would be too happy with that idea but its being screened on NY day . Heres the trailer (not my music )



😁 It's pretty amazing seeing what some of you people are up to!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

If I remember correctly, that cue was also very front and center for that scene - not tucked away. Impressive for MSS and LASS to have to carry it on their own (despite the “lack of character” or the “unmixable tone” 😂).


----------



## AEF

I was so deeply disappointed in MSS, but have an itchy trigger finger for LASS 3. 

They seem to have a lot of the sonic character of Cinestrings. Anyone have both and can compare?


----------



## molemac

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If I remember correctly, that cue was also very front and center for that scene - not tucked away. Impressive for MSS and LASS to have to carry it on their own (despite the “lack of character” or the “unmixable tone” 😂).


Yes it was the front credits and segwayed into John Williams’s Hagrid theme . Hopefully no one noticed 😂


----------



## Futchibon

molemac said:


> Hi , So I hope you all enjoyed weeping at Emma Watson et al . Here as promised are some examples of using MSS and Lass3 together (I realize this is not the best example as its shorts only but I didnt feel happy exposing the high legato strings as samples always sound fake in my hands anyway). But I think you can see that they benefit from being doubled by each other ie dont sound that great on their own. Kind of tragic that I had to do this with samples but there you go apparently no budget go figure.


Thanks for sharing!


----------



## novaburst

Noeticus said:


> If all String Libraries sounded basically the same, then we probably wouldn't have need for them.


I think this is well said, 

i think there is a lot of tech that Developers are using, mic tech, amp tech, EQ and perhaps a lot more, the effect its having is giving us a kind of instant gratification, so every thing sounds glossed over, hiding the true nature of the strings or even brass for that matter.

This has its advantages for those who just want to sit down and get along with there work, 

if a real violinist came into your studio and did some recording you will hear finger scuffs, bow sounds and unpleasant string noise, after you will EQ the life out of that recording.

deep down there is a feeling when you use Lass the feeling is that is how strings sound, and that can be very appealing for some, 

With the latest library the feeling is for many that's what a string library should sound like, but what your hearing is EQ, Amps, saturation, reverb, and even RX to make it sound like that, 

The end result is very pleasant but can damage a lot of the character of the strings, tone wood tone, bow sound and so on, but today it seems thats what every body wants

at the end of the day its what you want to use, as we are very spoiled for choice, 

there is a huge user base for just about every string library, utube and esp on this forum, a lot of research can be done before purchasing any given library, 

*You will see its good points and why users use it

bad points and how to work around,* 
*
what situations are best suited*

so much information on all library's, you can hear the library's being performed in muckups the list just goes on

There is really no need to start slamming developers , with all this information its just a pointless road to no where.

If a user is getting on very well with a library but on the other hand you are not what is there to say, You cant say nothing, 

They are creating some beautiful music but you are not, they have the same tools as you in fact they may even have less tools as you, so what can you say about that situation.

I think people are investing a lot of time slamming developers, but that time should be spent on the things you love is that not making music.


----------



## Gerbil

molemac said:


> Yes it was the front credits and segwayed into John Williams’s Hagrid theme . Hopefully no one noticed 😂


Lovely work. Well done. Nice to see some of the cast back together as well.


----------



## d4vec4rter

novaburst said:


> I think this is well said,
> 
> i think there is a lot of tech that Developers are using, mic tech, amp tech, EQ and perhaps a lot more, the effect its having is giving us a kind of instant gratification, so every thing sounds glossed over, hiding the true nature of the strings or even brass for that matter.
> 
> This has its advantages for those who just want to sit down and get along with there work,
> 
> if a real violinist came into your studio and did some recording you will hear finger scuffs, bow sounds and unpleasant string noise, after you will EQ the life out of that recording.
> 
> deep down there is a feeling when you use Lass the feeling is that is how strings sound, and that can be very appealing for some,
> 
> With the latest library the feeling is for many that's what a string library should sound like, but what your hearing is EQ, Amps, saturation, reverb, and even RX to make it sound like that,
> 
> The end result is very pleasant but can damage a lot of the character of the strings, tone wood tone, bow sound and so on, but today it seems thats what every body wants
> 
> at the end of the day its what you want to use, as we are very spoiled for choice,
> 
> there is a huge user base for just about every string library, utube and esp on this forum, a lot of research can be done before purchasing any given library,
> 
> *You will see its good points and why users use it
> 
> bad points and how to work around,
> 
> what situations are best suited*
> 
> so much information on all library's, you can hear the library's being performed in muckups the list just goes on
> 
> There is really no need to start slamming developers , with all this information its just a pointless road to no where.
> 
> If a user is getting on very well with a library but on the other hand you are not what is there to say, You cant say nothing,
> 
> They are creating some beautiful music but you are not, they have the same tools as you in fact they may even have less tools as you, so what can you say about that situation.
> 
> I think people are investing a lot of time slamming developers, but that time should be spent on the things you love is that not making music.


Well said.

I've got loads (maybe too many) strings libraries but the one, overriding aspect of LASS 3 that sold me on it was the less polished, grittier character it has to its sound. Some libraries are so polished, they sound almost synth-like. Maybe OK for some compositions but when you want an instrument to sound like it perhaps does if someone was playing it to you live then LASS comes closer to that realism. I like its flexibility too and certain controls you don't see on other libraries. Blend LASS with some other libraries and you get instant added character.

I agree that it needs more work than quite a few other libraries to get the results you're after but, to me, that's part of the enjoyment.


----------



## Nahnou

Hi, Just upgraded to Lass 3 and made some experiments today. Very nice improvements in the way dynamics are managed and great control over the sound amplitude by linking the volume to dynamics. The look ahead feature is great and the auto divisi script is very nice too..
I love the intimate and fragile sound of lass and with this new version we have tools at our disposal that allow us to modify sound details that were inaccessible before..So thank you audiobro..


----------



## Henu

Hey, I have a question.

Using Violins 1 full (haven't tried others yet): whenever I enable lookahead function, the legato midi CC stops responding when using expression maps in Cubase. It just simply ignores the CC command. Without lookahead, it works just fine. Am I doing something wrong?

EDIT: I've now tested more. At least violins 2 have the same problem, and it only appears when using the arco articulation. Sordinos and tremolos behave as they should, whenever arco is used, it's legato button is not responding to CC data at all- not with direction or attribute.

I reported this behaviour at the Audiobro forum, let's see what they will answer.


----------



## troubleclef




----------



## Juulu

So I figured this would be place to post this but if not I'm willing to delete this post. I feel like when people are looking at string libraries these days two of the top contenders (or at least top recommended) are LASS and CSS. However, it's hard to find comparisons of these libraries online. So I decided to try my hand at refactoring the midi from Alex's New Dawn for CSS to fit LASS. Lemme know what you guys think
View attachment CSS to Lass3.mp3

Key takeaway here is just how good of a composer Alex is haha!
Also here's is the original CSS version for reference!



All in all, I feel like LASS holds up pretty well despite being an older library. The only sort of glaring issues would be the inconsistent legatos and the audible tuning issues in the upper registers of the violas and celli.

*Important to note: I haven't done any processing to the LASS version. Everything you're hearing is the library raw. I turned off all audiobro effects except for the color verb to give the instruments more space.


----------



## novaburst

NiCe camparison to my surprise Lass did do well especially mid range to high

CSS sounded very nice a lot of ear candy from beginning to end 

I think Lass is a different typ of library in turns of texture and recording every think about Lass is natural I think another term for this is raw


----------



## muziksculp

Juulu said:


> So I figured this would be place to post this but if not I'm willing to delete this post. I feel like when people are looking at string libraries these days two of the top contenders (or at least top recommended) are LASS and CSS. However, it's hard to find comparisons of these libraries online. So I decided to try my hand at refactoring the midi from Alex's New Dawn for CSS to fit LASS. Lemme know what you guys think
> View attachment CSS to Lass3.mp3
> 
> Key takeaway here is just how good of a composer Alex is haha!
> Also here's is the original CSS version for reference!
> 
> 
> 
> All in all, I feel like LASS holds up pretty well despite being an older library. The only sort of glaring issues would be the inconsistent legatos and the audible tuning issues in the upper registers of the violas and celli.
> 
> *Important to note: I haven't done any processing to the LASS version. Everything you're hearing is the library raw. I turned off all audiobro effects except for the color verb to give the instruments more space.



LASS sounds great. Did you use LASS 3 for this demo, or LASS 2.5 ? 

Thanks.


----------



## Juulu

muziksculp said:


> LASS sounds great. Did you use LASS 3 for this demo, or LASS 2.5 ?
> 
> Thanks.


This is LASS 3


----------



## muziksculp

Juulu said:


> This is LASS 3


THANKS


----------



## novaburst

Mind you I think as you said Alex writing contribute s plenty, a good composition does kind of help you zone into the music rather than the library


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> THANKS


They're sonically near identical 😁


----------



## muziksculp

@Casiquire,

By the way, I have all LASS 2.5 legatos edited using the Pixelpoet trick. They sound fantastic. Just using the patches separately, no fancy use of their ARC system for divisi. Since that is improved quite a bit in LASS 3, but I'm trying to figure out if I can achieve a similar legato characteristic to LASS 2.5 Pixelpoet trick when using the LASS 3 editing options.

Any feedack on this detail from LASS 3 users would be interesting.

Oh.. I'm also going to try to apply the Pixelpoet trick to the LASS 2.5 Legato Sordino Library, which has a beautiful Sordino timbre. Anyone apply the pixelpoet trick to the Sordino Strings ? and compare them to LASS 3 Sordino Strings. 

Thanks.


----------



## Noc

muziksculp said:


> Oh.. I'm also going to try to apply the Pixelpoet trick to the LASS 2.5 Legato Sordino Library, which has a beautiful Sordino timbre. Anyone apply the pixelpoet trick to the Sordino Strings ? and compare them to LASS 3 Sordino Strings.


Sadly the Pixelpoet legato trick doesn’t work for LASS 2.5 Legato Sordino. The LS samples were cut/edited differently than the main library’s, and there are no longer samples to “expose” using the trick. Already tried this myself, and others confirmed it. Same applies to LASS 2.5 LPG trills and tremolos, incidentally.

Luckily the LPG transition speed knob works great for all three (sordinos/trills/tremolos) in LASS 3.


----------



## muziksculp

Noc said:


> Sadly the Pixelpoet legato trick doesn’t work for LASS 2.5 Legato Sordino. The LS samples were cut/edited differently than the main library’s, and there are no longer samples to “expose” using the trick. Already tried this myself, and others confirmed it. Same applies to LASS 2.5 LPG trills and tremolos, incidentally.
> 
> Luckily the LPG transition speed knob works great for all three (sordinos/trills/tremolos) in LASS 3.


Hi @Noc ,

Thanks for letting me know about this, so I won't waste my time trying to use the Pixelpoet legato trick on the LASS 2.5 LS. library. But, I will check how good the LASS 3 Legato transition speed knob is for getting a nice legato transition for the Sordinos, and normal legatos as well. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Noc

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Noc ,
> 
> Thanks for letting me know about this, so I won't waste my time trying to use the Pixelpoet legato trick on the LASS 2.5 LS. library. But, I will check how good the LASS 3 Legato transition speed knob is for getting a nice legato transition for the Sordinos, and normal legatos as well.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Sure thing. Be sure to also try out the more advanced transition settings (click the little arrow next to “Trans Spd - Mode” to reveal them), namely the Offset knobs, for even more control. Personally, I want the fullest transitions possible, so I’ve set every speed and offset knob to 0, and then apply a negative delay to keep playback on beat, only occasionally turning up the main Trans Spd knob for faster passages. Sounds gorgeous, very flowing and lyrical.



​


----------



## muziksculp

Noc said:


> Sure thing. Be sure to also try out the more advanced transition settings (click the little arrow next to “Trans Spd - Mode” to reveal them), namely the Offset knobs, for even more control. Personally, I want the fullest transitions possible, so I’ve set every speed and offset knob to 0, and then apply a negative delay to keep playback on beat, only occasionally turning up the main Trans Spd knob for faster passages. Sounds gorgeous, very flowing and lyrical.
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Hi @Noc ,

Thank you for the very helpful tip. I will try using it, and increase my negative delay value for the track. Oh.. what neg-delay value do you find works well with the above settings for you ?


----------



## Noc

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Noc ,
> 
> Thank you for the very helpful tip. I will try using it, and increase my negative delay value for the track. Oh.. what neg-delay value do you find works well with the above settings for you ?


Sadly I can’t give a useful answer, as I use Sibelius which only allows users to offset note start positions by “ticks” (1/256th fractions of a quarter note) rather than in milliseconds. So I just go by ear and tinker with it until it sounds good to me.


----------



## muziksculp

Noc said:


> Sadly I can’t give a useful answer, as I use Sibelius which only allows users to offset note start positions by “clicks” (1/256th fractions of a quarter note) rather than in milliseconds. So I just go by ear and tinker with it until it sounds good to me.


I see. I will figure a good value by testing it a little. 

Thanks.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> I see. I will figure a good value by testing it a little.
> 
> Thanks.


Or you can enable Lookahead and it's an even 400!

That "transition" knob is the really big deal. That knob in particular is the Pixelpoet Trick.


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Or you can enable Lookahead and it's an even 400!
> 
> That "transition" knob is the really big deal. That knob in particular is the Pixelpoet Trick.


OK. THANKS


----------



## Maximvs

Hello folks,

I would like to ask people who use LASS 3 if the 'Ensemble' patch has been added since the release of the library. I have noticed that in LASS 2.5 the Ensemble patch was included but then removed with this new LASS 3 version.
I have also noticed that practically there are none reviews of LASS 3, which I have found quite strange... this library update seems to have passed unnoticed for some strange reasons. I am wondering if the tuning issues present in LASS 2.5 have been addressed; from the few demos I have listened to LASS 3 sounds better than the previews version.

Thanks and kind regards,

Maximus


----------



## muziksculp

Maximvs said:


> I would like to ask people who use LASS 3 if the 'Ensemble' patch has been added since the release of the library.


Hi @Maximvs ,

No, there is no full ensemble patch in LASS 3 , these are the patches included in LASS 3








Maximvs said:


> I have also noticed that practically there are none reviews of LASS 3, which I have found quite strange... this library update seems to have passed unnoticed for some strange reasons.


Yes, that's something I have noticed, I wonder why not a single YouTube Review has been posted for LASS 3. Very odd indeed.


----------



## Juulu

Maximvs said:


> I am wondering if the tuning issues present in LASS 2.5 have been addressed; from the few demos I have listened to LASS 3 sounds better than the previews version.
> 
> Thanks and kind regards,
> 
> Maximus


The tuning issues are still there. They aren't as noticeable in the violins and basses, but the violas and celli in their upper octaves have very noticeable tuning issues, even in the legato transitions.


----------



## Casiquire

Maximvs said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> I would like to ask people who use LASS 3 if the 'Ensemble' patch has been added since the release of the library. I have noticed that in LASS 2.5 the Ensemble patch was included but then removed with this new LASS 3 version.
> I have also noticed that practically there are none reviews of LASS 3, which I have found quite strange... this library update seems to have passed unnoticed for some strange reasons. I am wondering if the tuning issues present in LASS 2.5 have been addressed; from the few demos I have listened to LASS 3 sounds better than the previews version.
> 
> Thanks and kind regards,
> 
> Maximus


LASS3 does not include any of the ensemble patches. However i do believe they give you the legacy LASS2.5 multis; I'd ask for more detail in their forums because they're extremely responsive and always helpful. Honestly some of the best help I've seen from devs in the whole industry.

The sample content is the same, so the tuning issues are the same. My impression is that the intention of the library is to use each full ensemble, and then only split divisi when needed. If you use it that way, in context you won't hear tuning issues. They are really only noticeable when that particular divisi section is exposed. I wouldn't use the library in such a way that the smallest cello divisi sections are playing alone, but if your piece already requires you to divide cellos into thirds, that means we're hearing at least six or seven other lines playing, you won't hear any issues at all. And if you do, just swap sections.

I think the reason we aren't seeing many new reviews about it is because there's nothing really new to report. We've been using the LASS3 interface for half a decade and the LASS3 samples for over a decade. Also Audiobro isn't a huge hype machine and they don't flood the market with libraries every day. They've had entire new products drop without much fanfare, like Modern Scoring Brass which also never gets talked about. It's a shame, because their old-school style of producing libraries that give us the tools to do almost everything we could possibly want right in the box is really missing these days


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> I think the reason we aren't seeing many new reviews about it is because there's nothing really new to report.


We haven't seen any reviews, or in-depth videos of LASS 3.

I don't think there is a good reason for not having any reviews or in-depth walkthroughs for LASS 3. Having the same samples as the orginal library is not a good enough reason. A lot of new features have been added in LASS 3, and workflow is much easier as well. Really worth a full video review.

Plus for those who don't own LASS 2.5, LASS 3 is the only option. So, it would make a lot of sense to have full reviews of LASS 3.


----------



## Maximvs

Thanks a lot muziksculp, Casiquire and Juulu for your very kind reply's and feedback.

Best to all,

Maxiums


----------



## doctoremmet

Well, reviews don’t write themselves.

So either LASS 3.0 is not perceived as very relevant by most reviewers (maybe in terms of how many “eyeballs” such a review might attract?), or Audiobro has not actively targeted the reviewers with NFR license codes to entice them to do a review. A third reason could be the avalanche of new product launches we have seen in this niche, where a certain bias likely creeps in to allocate time and energy to new new things, rather than “mere” (perceived or not) version 2.5 to version 3 bumps of a product that has been on the market for ages?

Of course this is all highly speculative, but I am convinced there are at least very logical reasons that explain the absence of (m)any reviews. Unfortunately us sheep (buyers of too many string libraries) do not have some God-given entitlement to reviews. Maybe some owners / fellow forum members can be persuaded to make their own (video or written) review?


----------



## prodigalson

muziksculp said:


> Plus for those who don't own LASS 2.5, LASS 3 is the only option. So, it would make a lot of sense to have full reviews of LASS 3.


----------



## novaburst

It is much more easy to use but as for tone and sound they are the same


----------



## muk

Good timing that this should come up now, just when I started writing reviews for an online magazine. I'll ask, maybe we can arrange something.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> We haven't seen any reviews, or in-depth videos of LASS 3.
> 
> I don't think there is a good reason for not having any reviews or in-depth walkthroughs for LASS 3. Having the same samples as the orginal library is not a good enough reason. A lot of new features have been added in LASS 3, and workflow is much easier as well. Really worth a full video review.
> 
> Plus for those who don't own LASS 2.5, LASS 3 is the only option. So, it would make a lot of sense to have full reviews of LASS 3.


I don't think the reasons have to be good enough for you, they seem to be good enough for potential reviewers! Though i do think in depth videos directly from Audiobro would be smart, and stirring up a bit of buzz. They're not great at doing that, or at controlling the conversation around their often polarizing releases.



muk said:


> Good timing that this should come up now, just when I started writing reviews for an online magazine. I'll ask, maybe we can arrange something.


That would be awesome! I already own the libraries but i support hype for Audiobro. I'll give it interaction.


----------



## muk

Casiquire said:


> That would be awesome! I already own the libraries but i support hype for Audiobro. I'll give it interaction.


Thank you Casiquire. I've asked, and I'm sure the site will reach out to Andrew. If he's interested enough in a review from us to give an NFR it will happen.


----------



## muziksculp

muk said:


> Thank you Casiquire. I've asked, and I'm sure the site will reach out to Andrew. If he's interested enough in a review from us to give an NFR it will happen.


A good video review of LASS 3 will be very helpful to many users, and potential buyers, and it will surely benefit AudioBro to have independent video reviews of LASS 3 . Hopefully they will agree to provide a NFR copy of LASS 3 for the review. Especially given that there are zero video reviews of LASS 3 on YT.


----------



## paulmatthew

That's why I have yet to upgrade from 2.5. I think I've seen one video so far and that wasn't enough to convince me to jump on it. I'm surprised Natahan hasn't done much on a walk through of all the new features in Lass 3. He was doing plenty for MSS . Maybe that says something , I don't know.


----------



## muk

muziksculp said:


> A good video review of LASS 3 will be very helpful to many users, and potential buyers, and it will surely benefit AudioBro to have independent video reviews of LASS 3 . Hopefully they will agree to provide a NFR copy of LASS 3 for the review. Especially given that there are zero video reviews of LASS 3 on YT.


It won't be a video review I'm afraid. A video review by me, that's definitely not something anybody would want to watch. No, if it happens it's going to be good old written text.


----------



## muziksculp

muk said:


> It won't be a video review I'm afraid. A video review by me, that's definitely not something anybody would want to watch. No, if it happens it's going to be good old written text.


I see. But I really feel that a Video Review is badly needed for this library. Hopefully someone will do it.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> I see. But I really feel that a Video Review is badly needed for this library. Hopefully someone will do it.


Reviews take effort, my friend! Nobody wants to put in the effort for a UI update with no buzz behind it. There are very few if any in-depth reviews and walkthroughs for plenty of Synchronized libraries for the same reasons. I know, because there were several i was interested in.


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> A good video review of LASS 3 will be very helpful to many users, and potential buyers,


Agree



muziksculp said:


> and it will surely benefit AudioBro to have independent video reviews of LASS 3 .


Disagree. If LASS was a movie, it would be THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY. As mentioned by others, there are tuning issues but these pale compared to the issues in the First Chairs. They're woeful. A genuine review would hurt AB big time.

Chris Hein ensemble can often be had for $199 and while the retail price of USE is ridiculus, it's often on sale for $119 at APD. Both have a lot of the raw qualities of LASS but are much more consistent.

What REALLY rubs me the wrong way is that before 3.0 came out, they were advertising 2.5 as '$399, rrp $1399', implying you were saving a grand and that the 2021 price was worth $1399. Which is not just false advertising but offensive.


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Disagree. If LASS was a movie, it would be THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY. As mentioned by others, there are tuning issues but these pale compared to the issues in the First Chairs. They're woeful. A genuine review would hurt AB big time.


Hmm.. I guess not having genuine video reviews of LASS 3 is a good thing for AudioBro, and it seems like reviewers want to keep that way. (Strange).


----------



## Soundbed

paulmatthew said:


> That's why I have yet to upgrade from 2.5. I think I've seen one video so far and that wasn't enough to convince me to jump on it. I'm surprised Natahan hasn't done much on a walk through of all the new features in Lass 3. He was doing plenty for MSS . Maybe that says something , I don't know.


It doesn’t mean anything other than I’ve been quite busy.

I did a little beta testing but missed the initial (private) announcement so I was a bit late to it.

It’s great to have LASS in the MSS GUI … making a video would be almost exactly the same as my MSS videos except with the LASS samples, so it hasn’t been a priority given all the other things going on.

I have a feeling the people using it are … you know, using it and not reviewers.


----------



## Batrawi

Noc said:


> ​


😂


----------



## [email protected]

Is there a reason why the prepared expression maps for LASS 3 have "runs"? I don't find any runs-patches in the LASS 3 instruments...


----------



## Casiquire

[email protected] said:


> Is there a reason why the prepared expression maps for LASS 3 have "runs"? I don't find any runs-patches in the LASS 3 instruments...


I don't believe LASS 3 has runs?


----------



## [email protected]

They definitely haven't. This is why I don't understand why they have them in the prepared expression maps for the DAW integration.


----------



## Noc

[email protected] said:


> They definitely haven't. This is why I don't understand why they have them in the prepared expression maps for the DAW integration.


The LASS3 interface is based on MSS’s with a slight color change and all the non-MSS articulations and features removed, so my guess would be they probably converted the MSS expression maps to LASS3 and forgot to remove the runs along the way.


----------



## Juulu

Does anyone know if you can make the divisi feature key switchable? I usually have it turned off because it makes it harder to play faster passages, but in a piece I'm working on I need to turn it on just once. I noticed the per voice divisi is assigned to some random value but not sure how to turn it on and off with it.


----------



## ZeeCount

Juulu said:


> Does anyone know if you can make the divisi feature key switchable? I usually have it turned off because it makes it harder to play faster passages, but in a piece I'm working on I need to turn it on just once. I noticed the per voice divisi is assigned to some random value but not sure how to turn it on and off with it.


You can assign keyswitches to switch presets for the ensemble settings. Make a preset that has divisi turned off, and one where it's turned on, and switch between the two.


----------



## Juulu

ZeeCount said:


> You can assign keyswitches to switch presets for the ensemble settings. Make a preset that has divisi turned off, and one where it's turned on, and switch between the two.


Ok, I'll have to check that out later. I saw the presets in there and wasn't really sure what they were. I guess I should read the manual? There might be some useful info in there.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## novaburst

Great vid, and a lovely Tone and sound you got going there


----------



## iMovieShout

Would anyone here happen to know how to download LASS3 without using the AudioBro app?
Unfortunately the AudioBro adc-r225 download app no longer works (well at least not on my studio PC or my laptop, both of which run Windows10).

I've attached a screendump of the adc app when its run. As you can see there's nothing displayed in the app's window.
Disabling the Window's firewall, and BitDefender (Firewall / AntiVirus / AntiMalware etc) makes no difference. I've also tried the Windows Compatibility Troubleshooter - again no change.


Thanks for any help on this.


----------



## Noc

jpb007.uk said:


> Would anyone here happen to know how to download LASS3 without using the AudioBro app?
> Unfortunately the AudioBro adc-r225 download app no longer works (well at least not on my studio PC or my laptop, both of which run Windows10).
> 
> I've attached a screendump of the adc app when its run. As you can se there's nothing displayed in the ap's window.
> 
> Thanks for any help on this.


I’m afraid the ADC is the only way to download any Audiobro library. If it isn’t working:

a) Try restarting your computer (not kidding, this fixes a crazy variety of random application bugs);

b) Try temporarily disabling any antivirus, VPN and other apps that might interfere;

c) Try uninstalling & reinstalling the ADC; or

d) Post on Audiobro’s forum, and one of the team will get in touch quickly.

Hope it gets fixed soon. 👍


----------



## novaburst

jpb007.uk said:


> Would anyone here happen to know how to download LASS3 without using the AudioBro app?
> Unfortunately the AudioBro adc-r225 download app no longer works (well at least not on my studio PC or my laptop, both of which run Windows10).
> 
> I've attached a screendump of the adc app when its run. As you can se there's nothing displayed in the ap's window.
> 
> Thanks for any help on this.



You can go to Audiobro web page and down load another installer, but I would delete the existing on first. Delete the existing one, 

For some reason they do stop working, also on Audio Bro forum they are very quick to respond and fix issues


----------



## iMovieShout

Noc said:


> I’m afraid the ADC is the only way to download any Audiobro library. If it isn’t working:
> 
> a) Try restarting your computer (not kidding, this fixes a crazy variety of random application bugs);
> 
> b) Try temporarily disabling any antivirus, VPN and other apps that might interfere;
> 
> c) Try uninstalling & reinstalling the ADC; or
> 
> d) Post on Audiobro’s forum, and one of the team will get in touch quickly.
> 
> Hope it gets fixed soon. 👍


Many thanks for the tips.

I've tried all of those, without any change.
I'm hoping the AudioBro forum will throw up something, or a reply to the e-mail I sent to AudioBro yesterday.


----------



## jonnybutter

novaburst said:


> You can go to Audiobro web page and down load another installer, but I would delete the existing on first. Delete the existing one,
> 
> For some reason they do stop working, also on Audio Bro forum they are very quick to respond and fix issues


Exactly. Their filters can be too strict. Just ask them and they will fix it very quickly.


----------



## iMovieShout

jpb007.uk said:


> Many thanks for the tips.
> 
> I've tried all of those, without any change.
> I'm hoping the AudioBro forum will throw up something, or a reply to the e-mail I sent to AudioBro yesterday.


SOLVED: 
I've installed Kontakt v5.8.1 and rebooted my PC, and hey presto, the ADC app now works correctly.
Weird behaviour.
According to the reply I had on the AudioBro forum, installing Kontakt 5 also installs a bunch of display libraries which are also needed by adc. 

Thanks again for the hints and tips, and the quick response from the folk at AudioBro


----------



## Noc

jpb007.uk said:


> UPDATE:
> I've installed Kontakt v5.8.1 and rebooted my PC, and hey presto, the ADC app now works correctly.
> Weird behaviour.
> According to the reply I had on the AudioBro forum, installing Kontakt 5 also installs a bunch of display libraries which are also needed by adc.
> 
> Thanks again for the hints and tips, and the quick response from the folk at AudioBro


Glad it’s fixed! Odd, I didn’t think ADC needed Kontakt to be installed, but hey, whatever works.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Here is a very valuable tip mentioned to me by @Casiquire . So.. Many Thanks, and Appreciation goes to our fellow VI-C member, @Casiquire 

The Tip : *Using LASS 3 with MSS (if you have both)*, this offers you lots of additional sculpting possibilities with these libraries. LASS 3 blends very nicely with MSS, and has a similar GUI, So easy to work with both libraries work great as a team. For some reason, I always thought of LASS 3, and MSS as two distinct libraries, but using them together is a big step up from using only one of them. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## d4vec4rter

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is a very valuable tip mentioned to me by @Casiquire . So.. Many Thanks, and Appreciation goes to our fellow VI-C member, @Casiquire
> 
> The Tip : *Using LASS 3 with MSS (if you have both)*, this offers you lots of additional sculpting possibilities with these libraries. LASS 3 blends very nicely with MSS, and has a similar GUI, So easy to work with both libraries work great as a team. For some reason, I always thought of LASS 3, and MSS as two distinct libraries, but using them together is a big step up from using only one of them.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


I've just purchased MSS (with the expanded Legato add-on) on a special LASS crossgrade discount of 52%. I adore LASS 3 and its raw tonal qualities and have found that they blend really well with quite a few other string libraries I have. I'm pretty sure, as you say, they'll blend great with MSS. Super libraries with some awesome features such as the auto divisi.


----------



## Mark Steven

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is a very valuable tip mentioned to me by @Casiquire . So.. Many Thanks, and Appreciation goes to our fellow VI-C member, @Casiquire
> 
> The Tip : *Using LASS 3 with MSS (if you have both)*, this offers you lots of additional sculpting possibilities with these libraries. LASS 3 blends very nicely with MSS, and has a similar GUI, So easy to work with both libraries work great as a team. For some reason, I always thought of LASS 3, and MSS as two distinct libraries, but using them together is a big step up from using only one of them.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


I have always been very impressed and a fan of LASS, LASS 3, and Modern Scoring Strings. I never quite understood the undying worship on this forum for CSS unless users are looking for a simpler, turnkey string package. Audiobro's strings need to be fully learned properly and the results are exceptional at the current state of virtual string development.


----------



## Jaap

Mark Steven said:


> I have always been very impressed and a fan of LASS, LASS 3, and Modern Scoring Strings. I never quite understood the undying worship on this forum for CSS unless users are looking for a simpler, turnkey string package. Audiobro's strings need to be fully learned properly and the results are exceptional at the current state of virtual string development.


Amen to that. Very true words to be honest and my feeling about Lass (and Mss) as well.
I have to say I really like Css as well, but more for tone. But I could happily live everafter with just Lass and/or Mss


----------



## Casiquire

Mark Steven said:


> I have always been very impressed and a fan of LASS, LASS 3, and Modern Scoring Strings. I never quite understood the undying worship on this forum for CSS unless users are looking for a simpler, turnkey string package. Audiobro's strings need to be fully learned properly and the results are exceptional at the current state of virtual string development.


I agree, these are remarkable libraries. I even agree to an extent with criticisms of both libraries, but I think that what they offer far outweighs those criticisms. They're crazy comprehensive, the legato is underrated, the tone is great, and they can mold into just about anything. Plus, divisi. Wish they'd add another layer of vibrato to MSS but that's a matter of taste and I'm really happy with how expressive it can be with light vibrato. 

It's worth mentioning their take on sordino too. LASS LS has this gorgeous and beautiful tone and they 'sing' so beautifully. It was a very long time favorite sordino of mine. MSS's sordino is, to my ears, a little intense and hyper precise. I've never heard that kind of take on sordino and I find it riveting.

I'm a huge fan


----------



## d4vec4rter

Casiquire said:


> ....
> I'm a huge fan


Me too. The tone of LASS really stands out from many other Strings libraries in my opinion. The only other library which hits the spot to the same extent is Afflatus.

The thing that stands out for me with MSS is the feature-set. Make the effort to learn how it works and you can really make the library sing, as you say. Lol, downloading Genesis Children's Choir as I'm typing this. Another one that appears to stand out from the crowd.


----------



## Chocolino

Audiobro products have always seemed spectacular to me and I don't understand why they don't have more recognition. In my case, I am awaiting the offers that the friends of Audiobro have prepared for Black Friday. It's the only thing I'm going to open my portfolio to this year.

What I still have doubts about is whether to opt first for LASS 3 or approach MSS.


----------



## d4vec4rter

Chocolino said:


> Audiobro products have always seemed spectacular to me and I don't understand why they don't have more recognition. In my case, I am awaiting the offers that the friends of Audiobro have prepared for Black Friday. It's the only thing I'm going to open my portfolio to this year.
> 
> What I still have doubts about is whether to opt first for LASS 3 or approach MSS.


Difficult one! I went for LASS 3 first because I loved the sound - it's drier and more characterful than a lot of libraries out there. I've just purchased MSS (and Genesis) because the feature-set is so impressive and you have a lot more to play with than LASS. The functional design of these libraries is, in my opinion, second to none.

I'm just a little bit worried now because I've been slightly duped into thinking AudioBro's Black Friday sale had already started as it's down on the 2022 Black Friday List thread and they've already got pretty decent sale discounts applied. Hoping I don't see further discounts and I could have saved the precious coffers by waiting a little longer.


----------



## CoffeeLover

I was going to buy LASS3 yesterday but
I am being blocked by www.ip2location.com
when i wanted to sign into my account at audiobro.com
This is very good for my wallet.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

CoffeeLover said:


> I was going to buy LASS3 yesterday but
> I am being blocked by www.ip2location.com
> when i wanted to sign into my account at audiobro.com
> This is very good for my wallet.


You can create a new password. Never-mind your wallet!


----------



## novaburst

Casiquire said:


> what they offer far outweighs those criticisms


This in a nut shell.


----------



## clintowenellis

d4vec4rter said:


> Difficult one! I went for LASS 3 first because I loved the sound - it's drier and more characterful than a lot of libraries out there. I've just purchased MSS (and Genesis) because the feature-set is so impressive and you have a lot more to play with than LASS. The functional design of these libraries is, in my opinion, second to none.
> 
> I'm just a little bit worried now because I've been slightly duped into thinking AudioBro's Black Friday sale had already started as it's down on the 2022 Black Friday List thread and they've already got pretty decent sale discounts applied. Hoping I don't see further discounts and I could have saved the precious coffers by waiting a little longer.


Eeesh, I think you may have bitten the bullet a little too early. I just got an E-mail today saying they're about to launch their black friday sale. Maybe you can get in touch and explain your situation?

I've always found the website confusing though. I was going to upgrade to LASS 3 as I saw some discount banner but when I looked at the price it didn't seem too different than normal.


----------



## d4vec4rter

clintowenellis said:


> Eeesh, I think you may have bitten the bullet a little too early. I just got an E-mail today saying they're about to launch their black friday sale. Maybe you can get in touch and explain your situation?
> 
> I've always found the website confusing though. I was going to upgrade to LASS 3 as I saw some discount banner but when I looked at the price it didn't seem too different than normal.


Yes, I had that email today. A bit annoyed that someone listed AudioBro on the Black Friday sale list which made me think it had already started. Just might try and contact them about it.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Casiquire said:


> I agree, these are remarkable libraries. I even agree to an extent with criticisms of both libraries, but I think that what they offer far outweighs those criticisms. They're crazy comprehensive, the legato is underrated, the tone is great, and they can mold into just about anything. Plus, divisi. Wish they'd add another layer of vibrato to MSS but that's a matter of taste and I'm really happy with how expressive it can be with light vibrato.
> 
> It's worth mentioning their take on sordino too. LASS LS has this gorgeous and beautiful tone and they 'sing' so beautifully. It was a very long time favorite sordino of mine. MSS's sordino is, to my ears, a little intense and hyper precise. I've never heard that kind of take on sordino and I find it riveting.
> 
> I'm a huge fan


comparing with your OT libraries, do you still use them over LASS/MSS?


----------



## Chocolino

d4vec4rter said:


> Yes, I had that email today. A bit annoyed that someone listed AudioBro on the Black Friday sale list which made me think it had already started. Just might try and contact them about it.


When I saw it on the list and verified that the "all year" discounts continued, I hurried to comment on the thread so that they would put the brakes on, precisely because of the email they sent me warning of Black Friday. I'm sorry I wasn't faster 


FrozenIcicle said:


> comparing with your OT libraries, do you still use them over LASS/MSS?


For me personally, Audiobro is much better, but don't forget that it's a subjective opinion.


----------



## Casiquire

FrozenIcicle said:


> comparing with your OT libraries, do you still use them over LASS/MSS?


I reach for OT or Audiobro depending on what I'm trying to get done. For about a year Berlin overtook Audiobro while I learned all the ins and outs, but LASS was my primary string library for years and now it just depends on the project. I have several other major string libraries from other devs but those two devs are the only ones to really stick


----------



## d4vec4rter

clintowenellis said:


> Eeesh, I think you may have bitten the bullet a little too early. I just got an E-mail today saying they're about to launch their black friday sale. Maybe you can get in touch and explain your situation?
> 
> I've always found the website confusing though. I was going to upgrade to LASS 3 as I saw some discount banner but when I looked at the price it didn't seem too different than normal.


Just been in touch with Sebastian at AudioBro about my slip-up (although a very understandable one). He has very kindly said the bottom line is they'll take care of me regards the pricing once the Black Friday sale is on. It's a bit crazy over there at the moment with the transition they've just made. 

Not only great products but great customer service too.


----------



## Chocolino

d4vec4rter said:


> Just been in touch with Sebastian at AudioBro about my slip-up (although a very understandable one). He has very kindly said the bottom line is they'll take care of me regards the pricing once the Black Friday sale is on. It's a bit crazy over there at the moment with the transition they've just made.
> 
> Not only great products but great customer service too.


Yes. I've been told that Audiobro's customer service is one of the best. Another reason to trust their products.


----------



## peterharket

I've been in touch with them to (mainly to share my enthusiasm of their products), and they are super responsive and forthcoming. Love 'em!


----------



## Pablocrespo

I wanted to reset my password, but they have blocked my country again, it feels (again) a bit heavy handed, I think they are the only developer that does this.

So, I think that will be my last experience with Audiobro.


----------



## peterharket

Pablocrespo said:


> I wanted to reset my password, but they have blocked my country again, it feels (again) a bit heavy handed, I think they are the only developer that does this.
> 
> So, I think that will be my last experience with Audiobro.


Can you use a VPN?


----------



## CoffeeLover

Pablocrespo said:


> I wanted to reset my password, but they have blocked my country again, it feels (again) a bit heavy handed, I think they are the only developer that does this.
> 
> So, I think that will be my last experience with Audiobro.


Same thing is happening here on my end
I changed my password about a week ago.
And yesterday I wanted to login and check BF prices
I have my eyes on LASS3 but both the forums and the login page was blocked.
And to be honest I was kinda relieved.

I'll send them email when I build a new system
At the moment I am not having any issues with MSS.


----------



## gamma-ut

Have they said they are blocking countries or entire IP blocks? Because this could simply be a server with slightly over-aggressive rules for its firewall that came along with the migration to the new site (and which I get the impression they are trying to iron out now).

If a server has got a script set up to block on repeated accesses, it's not tricky to get locked out if the connection is a bit dodgy and a few re-tries triggers one of the brute-force attack rules.


----------



## Noc

d4vec4rter said:


> Not only great products but great customer service too.





Chocolino said:


> Yes. I've been told that Audiobro's customer service is one of the best. Another reason to trust their products.


This has been my experience as well. When I was first looking to buy LASS 2.5 a few years ago, it was during a big 60% off sale (possibly Black Friday). I emailed them to ask how long the sale would last, since I didn’t have the funds at the time but would soon-ish, and they (I forget who it was) said they’d honor the 60% pricing if I could get the money together in the next few weeks, even if the sale had officially ended by then. They were true to their word, and that’s how I got LASS and they earned a loyal fan. I’ve since contacted them plenty of times via email and on their support forums, and they’ve never failed to be responsive and helpful. A+ service all around.

As for LASS vs. MSS – MSS continues to be my daily driver, and I only dip into LASS if I badly need sampled three-part divisi (not all that often) or if I need that close, dry, rosin-y sound, such as for pseudo-chamber pieces. Otherwise I rarely have reason to stray from MSS and its five million articulations and settings.


----------



## d4vec4rter

I had an email from AudioBro today and the guy said it was a little bit crazy at the moment sorting all the accounts out with the transition they've just made so I'd guess that any problems people may be experiencing accessing their accounts are more to do with teething problems than deliberate blocking.


----------



## clintowenellis

d4vec4rter said:


> Just been in touch with Sebastian at AudioBro about my slip-up (although a very understandable one). He has very kindly said the bottom line is they'll take care of me regards the pricing once the Black Friday sale is on. It's a bit crazy over there at the moment with the transition they've just made.
> 
> Not only great products but great customer service too.


Amazing! Yeah I've had to contact them before and I was amazed at how quick and delightful they were. Top company - though, having 40%-50% off items right before a black friday sale even starts can be a little misleading for customers.


----------



## paulmatthew

So to avoid confusion , the prices on the site now are not their Black Friday prices? I would also like to say their support is top notch and they don't talk you into buying anything, but rather give you advice on what might suit your needs best.


----------



## AllanH

Fwiw, I moved my account without any issues. My past purchases were in the new account. LASS 3 sounds really good in the demos.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Do you reckon Lass can get me closer to the Audiomachine string spiccatos that sound raw, or do I need to get abbey road strings cause I'm pretty sure they record in there?


----------



## Mr Greg G

Not sure what you mean by the Audiomachine string spiccatos but I did this mockup of Tron Legacy with mainly LASS shorts


----------



## Soundbed

FrozenIcicle said:


> Do you reckon Lass can get me closer to the Audiomachine string spiccatos that sound raw, or do I need to get abbey road strings cause I'm pretty sure they record in there?


LASS can do it, and would be a better choice than AR2 imho. Try a little Soothe 2 on any low-end resonances (if you can afford it) and a little OTT to shimmer them up a bit, add a bit of that "hybrid" sound (free). If you meant ARO ... I guess it might be a good experiment, but I know several trailer composers in that Audiomachine style use(d) LASS.


----------



## samplin

Lass is still my go to also.... I have many string libraries like alot of people but it just works the best for me either as a stand alone or blending for 90% of the time


----------



## topijokinen

dxmachina said:


> @N.Caffrey We don't install the legacy content by default, but you'll find it in the "Optional" section of the downloader. Install it right into your LASS 3 Lite Library folder and you'll find the old multis and instruments are available.
> 
> In addition, it's highly likely that we'll have a new Full Ensemble patch in a coming update.


Just purchased Lass 3 lite. I cannot find the optional section in the downloader. Where to find it?


----------



## Soundbed

topijokinen said:


> Just purchased Lass 3 lite. I cannot find the optional section in the downloader. Where to find it?


They have great tech support.


----------



## clintowenellis

Can someone tell me how much the new legato speed control affects the portamento and glissando?
They're my favourite part of LASS 2 and I'm willing to upgrade to LASS 3 if this feature adds a wide enough range. In the overview video, the presenter states that "when the transition speed is up all the way, you'll get the same transition setting in previous versions of LASS".

So I really want to know how slow the port. and gliss. can go. I'm willing to pay the $200US just for this feature.

If somebody could do a short example of two (or three) notes played port. or gliss. with the legato speed at slow, medium, fast speeds, I will be a very happy chappy.

Thanks in advance


----------



## samplin

clintowenellis said:


> Can someone tell me how much the new legato speed control affects the portamento and glissando?
> They're my favourite part of LASS 2 and I'm willing to upgrade to LASS 3 if this feature adds a wide enough range. In the overview video, the presenter states that "when the transition speed is up all the way, you'll get the same transition setting in previous versions of LASS".
> 
> So I really want to know how slow the port. and gliss. can go. I'm willing to pay the $200US just for this feature.
> 
> If somebody could do a short example of two (or three) notes played port. or gliss. with the legato speed at slow, medium, fast speeds, I will be a very happy chappy.
> 
> Thanks in advance


heres violin on the slowest transition.... lass 3 is great.. I would get it if you like lass 2


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Think I might buy Las 3 Lite. Don't need divisi as I'm just layering with CSS and BS. Can't find the upgrade price anyway


----------



## Grizzlymv

Hmmm. So I was going to pick LASS3 as i was always attracted by the tone and sound of it. But then, my price for LASS would the the exact same one as for MSS (without the extended legato). And now I wonder which one would be best. I do rely heavily on CSS and even created fake divisi with it, which gives good results but I'd like some alternative in sound and more especially real divisi. The tone of MSS is quite different than LASS but then MSS seems to be more featured pack than LASS. So confused now. Ahah. I was expecting LASS to be cheaper than MSS given its age and reduced set of functionalities but their discounted price are identical. Is MSS a good idea to layer with CSS? I feel LASS would stand out more given it's sound compared to CSS who seem to be less.. i don't know, maybe more generic? poor choice of word here. But bottom line, from the demo LASS seems more alive than MSS. Those who have both what would be your thoughts?


----------



## Soundbed

Grizzlymv said:


> Is MSS a good idea to layer with CSS?


I haven’t tried it but I’ve repeatedly noticed that after an hour of working with MSS moving to CSS is a dizzying, shocking experience because the CSS vibrato sounds like way too much. So, I’ve never even considered blending them. They are different beats with different aesthetic purposes in my book. 

LASS seeming “alive” I think is accurate. MSS is maybe more “polished” sounding vs LASS.

I got LASS lite 2.5 after CSS and used the shorts a ton. Like, all the time. Esp the cellos. I blended the LASS low end celli & bass shorts with CSS viola and violin shorts. 

I haven’t used CSS much since getting MSS tbh.


----------



## Noc

Grizzlymv said:


> Hmmm. So I was going to pick LASS3 as i was always attracted by the tone and sound of it. But then, my price for LASS would the the exact same one as for MSS (without the extended legato). And now I wonder which one would be best. I do rely heavily on CSS and even created fake divisi with it, which gives good results but I'd like some alternative in sound and more especially real divisi. The tone of MSS is quite different than LASS but then MSS seems to be more featured pack than LASS. So confused now. Ahah. I was expecting LASS to be cheaper than MSS given its age and reduced set of functionalities but their discounted price are identical. Is MSS a good idea to layer with CSS? I feel LASS would stand out more given it's sound compared to CSS who seem to be less.. i don't know, maybe more generic? poor choice of word here. But bottom line, from the demo LASS seems more alive than MSS. Those who have both what would be your thoughts?


Speaking as someone who has LASS & MSS but not CSS:

I previously used LASS as my workhorse, then switched to MSS once that was released and polished up. I find MSS is easier to work with overall, on top of having a whole lot more articulations and controls that give it way better flexibility. I also prefer MSS’s tone, which is more “neutral” in a good way that makes it more appropriate for a wider range of situations than LASS’s naturally harsher, closer-sounding tone. (Though you can of course manipulate LASS’s tone with colors, but there’s only so much that can do.)

Having listened to CSS demos, I do feel the tone is much more somber, and the vibrato _way_ stronger, which is great for more romantic styles but not so much for other applications, IMO. I think most strings libraries honestly blend fairly well though, and you can probably get some nice results by layering CSS with either LASS or MSS. I don’t think there’s any way to know for sure unless you (or someone else who has CSS and is kind enough to post a demo) try it.

I think I know what you mean about LASS sounding “more alive”, in that the patches have a lot of baked-in expression, but that’s actually kind of a drawback for me? It can sound great, but you can’t really control it (other than trying to counter it with the modwheel) or turn it off, which can be a hindrance sometimes. In MSS, you can control exactly how expressive you want the patches to be with the Attack/Transition slider; use Norm for standard playback, or switch to Cresc (nat.)/Bloom (leg.) for to give it a heavy dose of expression with a natural rise-and-fall in every note. Combined with judicious use of the other attack modes and the modwheel, and you can get playback that sings with the best of ’em.

Overall, if you have to pick one, I suggest MSS, simply because you get a lot more bang for your buck, especially if it’s priced the same as LASS. You can also try to emulate the LASS sound by picking only close mics and cranking up the Brightness knob a bit; it won’t sound identical, if it can get you close to LASS’s tone if that’s what you want. All the while its attack control and (IMO) superior legato lets it come alive every bit as well as LASS does. I really only use LASS for the quarter-sized sections anymore; anything else, MSS does better in my book.



FrozenIcicle said:


> Think I might buy Las 3 Lite. Don't need divisi as I'm just layering with CSS and BS. Can't find the upgrade price anyway


Hrm, I just checked the site, and I can’t find the upgrade pricing chart either. I think it was removed in the recent big site design overhaul. Shame.


----------



## clintowenellis

samplin said:


> heres violin on the slowest transition.... lass 3 is great.. I would get it if you like lass 2


Thanks so much for this. I really appreciate the help.

I think I'll pass for now and keep it on the wish-list though.


----------



## Flyo

I cannot enter to my account, country blocked? Anyone having genesis knows how much discount you get for MSS MSB?


----------



## Grizzlymv

Noc said:


> Speaking as someone who has LASS & MSS but not CSS:
> 
> Overall, if you have to pick one, I suggest MSS, simply because you get a lot more bang for your buck, especially if it’s priced the same as LASS. You can also try to emulate the LASS sound by picking only close mics and cranking up the Brightness knob a bit; it won’t sound identical, if it can get you close to LASS’s tone if that’s what you want. All the while its attack control and (IMO) superior legato lets it come alive every bit as well as LASS does. I really only use LASS for the quarter-sized sections anymore; anything else, MSS does better in my bok.


Wow! Thanks a lot for the detailed answer. That's quite helpful. The range of flexion MSS is indeed impressive. When you mention the legatos, I assume you also have the expansion for the legatos? Based on the demos, these sounds like a must have option as well. 

And thanks @Soundbed for the feedback. Quite interesting that you moved from css to MSS. And those shorts from lass that another thing that draw me in. Are you still using them with MSS or you feel the control and sound of the MSS ones are as good?

At this point I think I'm sold on MSS after Watching all videos. Still debating if I should go that extra mile and getting the bundle with the legato instead of just MSS. But that would be more a question for the MSS thread ahah.


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## Noc

Grizzlymv said:


> When you mention the legatos, I assume you also have the expansion for the legatos? Based on the demos, these sounds like a must have option as well.


Absolutely. Honestly, the Expanded Legato patches are so great – and in my view, so fundamental to unlocking the full potential of MSS – that I honestly think they should be combined into one package, just as LASS Legato Sordino was eventually combined into the full LASS 3 library.



Grizzlymv said:


> And those shorts from lass that another thing that draw me in. Are you still using them with MSS or you feel the control and sound of the MSS ones are as good?


I can’t speak for @Soundbed, but for my money, the LASS shorts are one area where LASS has a slight edge over MSS, at least if you prefer shorts that really punch through a mix. MSS’s shorts are fantastic, don’t get me wrong, but they aren’t as aggressive as LASS’s, and they have a slightly harder time standing out.

If it helps, I created a video directly comparing the shorts from LASS (v2.5, though they sound identical in LASS 3) to MSS, both with just the strings and in a full mix, where you can really hear the difference between the two – LASS’s shorts grab you harder, whereas MSS’s shorts blend in more:

​


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## Noc

Flyo said:


> I cannot enter to my account, country blocked? Anyone having genesis knows how much discount you get for MSS MSB?


Audiobro do a lot of country-blocking (not sure how much that really helps them cut down on spam & fraud, but I figure they have their reasons …). That said, their customer support is great, so shoot them an email anytime and they should be able to help you out.


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## d4vec4rter

Noc said:


> Audiobro do a lot of country-blocking (not sure how much that really helps them cut down on spam & fraud, but I figure they have their reasons …). That said, their customer support is great, so shoot them an email anytime and they should be able to help you out.


+1 Agree entirely. I have no doubt you'll get a very prompt response from them if you send them an email.


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## Soundbed

Noc said:


> I can’t speak for @Soundbed, but for my money, the LASS shorts are one area where LASS has a slight edge over MSS, at least if you prefer shorts that really punch through a mix. MSS’s shorts are fantastic, don’t get me wrong, but they aren’t as aggressive as LASS’s, and they have a slightly harder time standing out.


Those words can speak for me as well.


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## LHall

FrozenIcicle said:


> Think I might buy Las 3 Lite. Don't need divisi as I'm just layering with CSS and BS. Can't find the upgrade price anyway


LASS 3 is worth every extra penny you might pay for it. Don't discount the divisis. The beauty of LASS is that by combining various divisi sections, you can create an endless amount of colors. For instance, just for 1st violins, you have 3 sordino sections and 3 senza sections. So you have SIX different sections you can use in any combination. 2 senza plus 1 sordino. 3 sordino plus 1 senza. On and on. And that doesn't even count adding in the first chairs! (I actually prefer layering in a SM solo violin or two for first chair). 

Point is, with LASS you are not limited to one sound. You can create combinations to get almost any sound you want. I also have MSS and love layering that in as well. Endless combinations.


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## Flyo

Already contacted support and after a question from them I get no answer on how could advance in that regard. Any have any clue how much discount brings having Genesis?


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## dcoscina

how does MST sound compared to LASS3? I'm interested in MSS.


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## LHall

dcoscina said:


> how does MST sound compared to LASS3? I'm interested in MST.


MST??


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## Noc

dcoscina said:


> how does MST sound compared to LASS3? I'm interested in MST.


I presume you mean MSS (Modern Scoring Strings)?

MSS has a more neutral, smooth, balanced sound akin to what you hear in contemporary film scores, closer to other large string ensembles like EW’S Hollywood Strings, whereas LASS’s sound is drier, closer (with no controllable mic positions), and more raw/less processed, which some describe as sounding a bit harsh, for better or worse (though the included “color” tonal presets can help with that). I also personally find that MSS is a bit more flexible and easy to work with, especially with the additional attack/transition controls, whereas LASS has built-in expressiveness that can sound great but isn’t ideal for all circumstances.


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## dcoscina

yeah sorry, MSS... I had a migraine this morning so my brain isn't working right today


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## Noc

dcoscina said:


> yeah sorry, MSS... I had a migraine this morning so my brain isn't working right today


Oof, sorry to hear that. Those suck.


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## FrozenIcicle

LHall said:


> LASS 3 is worth every extra penny you might pay for it. Don't discount the divisis. The beauty of LASS is that by combining various divisi sections, you can create an endless amount of colors. For instance, just for 1st violins, you have 3 sordino sections and 3 senza sections. So you have SIX different sections you can use in any combination. 2 senza plus 1 sordino. 3 sordino plus 1 senza. On and on. And that doesn't even count adding in the first chairs! (I actually prefer layering in a SM solo violin or two for first chair).
> 
> Point is, with LASS you are not limited to one sound. You can create combinations to get almost any sound you want. I also have MSS and love layering that in as well. Endless combinations.


Ughh


LHall said:


> LASS 3 is worth every extra penny you might pay for it. Don't discount the divisis. The beauty of LASS is that by combining various divisi sections, you can create an endless amount of colors. For instance, just for 1st violins, you have 3 sordino sections and 3 senza sections. So you have SIX different sections you can use in any combination. 2 senza plus 1 sordino. 3 sordino plus 1 senza. On and on. And that doesn't even count adding in the first chairs! (I actually prefer layering in a SM solo violin or two for first chair).
> 
> Point is, with LASS you are not limited to one sound. You can create combinations to get almost any sound you want. I also have MSS and love layering that in as well. Endless combinations.


ugh i know i know, it’s great cause it’s basically doubling effect and can thicken the sound cause of different players but damn it’s so expensive. I get the update came out but still, 34% off… I need an added coupon lol


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## Grizzlymv

Well, after all, things went sideways a bit. What started as a strong desire to get LASS3 finally ended up with the MSS bundle and after experimenting a bit with MSS finally ended up with MSB on top of it...ahah. Not saying I won't get LASS Lite at some points for the shorts. I'll experiment more with MSS first. These libraries are quite massive in content and a bit overwhelming to start with compared to other more straight forward libraries. I guess once I'll be used to the UI and workflow, it's gonna fly, but there's so many different patches and presets to work with... especially in MSB. Not sure the 1 track for all arts per instrument (with Exp Maps) is going to work with these 2... Time to experiment. But I'm quite happy about what I'm hearing so far.


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## LHall

FrozenIcicle said:


> ugh i know i know, it’s great cause it’s basically doubling effect and can thicken the sound cause of different players but damn it’s so expensive. I get the update came out but still, 34% off… I need an added coupon lol


Lol. I bought it when it came out and it was several times the current cost. It's only $329 now. For what you get, that is really cheap. I know - it's all relative depending on your situation.


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## topijokinen

Soundbed said:


> They have great tech support.


Just got an answer from their tech support that theres a legacy folder in the full version of lass, but not lite. I got different impression here?


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## Soundbed

topijokinen said:


> Just got an answer from their tech support that theres a legacy folder in the full version of lass, but not lite. I got different impression here?


Right, I saw the reply in this thread about an optional folder in the AudioBro Download Center. I'm sorry I cannot help. I would simply reply to them with the post from this thread from dxmachina. I'm sure they'll do everything they can.


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## Scottyb

Can I just say I'm very new to the great MSS vs LASS debate, but holy smokes are some of the LASS demos simply, jaw-droppingly good. 

Like so good I wouldn't question if someone told me they were an actual symphony. 

I've also listened to people just noodling around with the library, with impressive results. 

After listening to countless comparisons I think that's the difference for me between these two libraries. 

The sound of LASS simply gives me chills. In the best ways. I just sit here shaking my head at how rich and warm (and real) it can sound. And I know if I look at everything that comes with MSS (and of course it's a much newer library, though honestly that doesn't mean much to me because Project Sam can still beat the pants off of much newer libraries) but ya know, just going by the numbers, it should seem so clear cut to go with MSS - but I can't shake how the sound of LASS absolutely moves me.

LASS 3 will be my next library purchase (thank you every single penny of Christmas money I get  )

I can't wait!


Colin O'Malley I don't know who you are, but this is absolutely lovely.


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## Mr Greg G

Totally agree, despite being more than 10 y. o. , LASS is still the best String library (yet).


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## d4vec4rter

Scottyb said:


> Can I just say I'm very new to the great MSS vs LASS debate, but holy smokes are some of the LASS demos simply, jaw-droppingly good.
> 
> Like so good I wouldn't question if someone told me they were an actual symphony.
> 
> I've also listened to people just noodling around with the library, with impressive results.
> 
> After listening to countless comparisons I think that's the difference for me between these two libraries.
> 
> The sound of LASS simply gives me chills. In the best ways. I just sit here shaking my head at how rich and warm (and real) it can sound. And I know if I look at everything that comes with MSS (and of course it's a much newer library, though honestly that doesn't mean much to me because Project Sam can still beat the pants off of much newer libraries) but ya know, just going by the numbers, it should seem so clear cut to go with MSS - but I can't shake how the sound of LASS absolutely moves me.
> 
> LASS 3 will be my next library purchase (thank you every single penny of Christmas money I get  )
> 
> I can't wait!
> 
> 
> Colin O'Malley I don't know who you are, but this is absolutely lovely.



You won't regret it. I've got a lot of Strings libraries but LASS 3 is one of my favourites. It's up there with Afflatus in terms of tone and sonic character.


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## doctoremmet

Scottyb said:


> Colin O'Malley I don't know who you are, but this is absolutely lovely.


Colin is one of the most talented samplists out there. He recorded Claire Woodwinds (named after his daughter) and all of the CAGE, AGE and Century series for 8Dio.

This demo is a famous one by him, and a bit of a classic. I agree (as would many others on this forum) it is one of the best demos by him / for this library.


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## Scottyb

doctoremmet said:


> Colin is one of the most talented samplists out there. He recorded Claire Woodwinds (named after his daughter) and all of the CAGE, AGE and Century series for 8Dio.
> 
> This demo is a famous one by him, and a bit of a classic. I agree (as would many others on this forum) it is one of the best demos by him / for this library.


Oh wow! The Claire Clarinet is seriously one of my all-time favs. Thanks for the insight there. And what a sweet legacy for his daughter. Didn't have any idea of his involvement with those libraries!


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## doctoremmet

Scottyb said:


> Oh wow! The Claire Clarinet is seriously one of my all-time favs. Thanks for the insight there. And what a sweet legacy for his daughter. Didn't have any idea of his involvement with those libraries!


This is actually one of my favourite demos ever by Colin:



And he can be heard in a couple of 8Dio walkthroughs as well:


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## Scottyb

doctoremmet said:


> This is actually one of my favourite demos ever by Colin:
> 
> 
> 
> And he can be heard in a couple of 8Dio walkthroughs as well:



I'll definitely have to check these out tonight! Thanks!


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## doctoremmet

Scottyb said:


> I'll definitely have to check these out tonight! Thanks!


My pleasure. Have fun. And if you want to do some extra reading on LASS:



Audiobro LASS 3 - The Sound Board


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## Scottyb

doctoremmet said:


> My pleasure. Have fun. And if you want to do some extra reading on LASS:
> 
> 
> 
> Audiobro LASS 3 - The Sound Board


Oh yeah. This is awesome! Thank you!


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## oboemaroni

Can someone confirm that LASS has non-vibrato legato samples, including portamento, for both the ensemble and divisi?


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## Noc

oboemaroni said:


> Can someone confirm that LASS has non-vibrato legato samples, including portamento, for both the ensemble and divisi?


Can confirm. Just tested it with various patches, and legato, portamento and glissando all work perfectly well regardless of the Vibrato knob’s position.


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## oboemaroni

Thanks @Noc


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## oboemaroni

Another question, how well does the same note rebow work? Does anyone have any examples of it in use?


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## patekswiss

I was a bit taken aback that the upgrade price is $299 when a new buyer can walk in off the street and pick it up for $329. I say this in the context of having shelled out nearly $1,500 for my original purchase of LASS / LS.


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## robismz

patekswiss said:


> I was a bit taken aback that the upgrade price is $299 when a new buyer can walk in off the street and pick it up for $329. I say this in the context of having shelled out nearly $1,500 for my original purchase of LASS / LS.


I've just spent 99€ yesterday for an update from Lass 2 full.


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