# Mavericks (so far so good)



## JohnG (Jul 14, 2014)

Hi all,

Is it safe now to update to Mavericks? Any tips? I was planning to upgrade rather than do a clean install if that's possible.

I cloned my boot drive this morning using Carbon Copy Cloner so that's available if Bad Things Happen.

I have a 2008 Macintosh, (MacPro3,1 Quad-Core Intel Xeon 3 GHz). I'm not going to replace it any time soon.

Software:
DP 8.01
MidiOverLANCP 3.3.916
Zebra 2.2 & Dark Zebra
Omnisphere v1.5.6d 64 bit (out of date, I know)
G-Player 2.0.5.3
Vienna Ensemble Pro 5.3.13240
Kontakt 5.2.1.6382
MOTU - recent PCI audio software (using a 2408mk3)
PLAY v3.0.47 (happy to update this if necessary; haven't yet bc it works fine)
NI software:
Massive 1.3.1 R129
Battery 3 3.2.3 R637
Absynth 5 -- 5.1.1 R1141
Guitar Rig 4 -- v4.2.2 R2564


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## Stephen Rees (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

If you fancy staying a bit behind the cutting edge, you can still update to Mountain Lion (10.8.5).

I updated two machines to 10.8.5 a few months ago, one from Snow Leopard and one from Lion. Both updates went without issues apart from....

1). The ex Snow Leopard machine had a really old Steinberg/Yamaha interface driver on it that caused an error message on boot up. It caused no operational difficulties though and the error message went away when we isolated the driver and removed it.

2). In the last 6 months ex Lion machine has had two kernel panics (never had one before). No data lost or any other problems though.

I suspect these minor glitches would not have occurred if we'd gone the 'clean install' route rather than doing an update. But updating is so much easier and I'm very lazy 

I did the same as you and used CCC to clone our system drives before the updates. I still have them, so we can rollback if necessary, but after 6 months I can't see us ever doing that.


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## dinerdog (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

fwiw - I have a MacPro Early 2008, 32GBs RAM, 480GB SSD, Logic X, NI Komplete 9, all Spectra etc... running Mavericks since it came out and have no problems.

However, I do not have Vienna and don't use Play anymore.


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## gsilbers (Jul 14, 2014)

i didnt have any issues with mavericks. 
i have similar system except for MidiOverLANCP and DP.


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## Giant_Shadow (Jul 14, 2014)

running good here John. Logic X, NI, etc. as well.


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

Thanks for the replies.

I'm definitely too lazy to do a clean install. Yikes. Also too lazy to do it in stages via Mountain Lion. Had an ugly experience with Lion on a different machine.

It sounds like MidiOverLAN CP is the only program nobody's mentioned. Maybe I'm the only person still using it since VE Pro came out!

I'll check around and see if there's any colour about that on their website. Last I checked it wasn't too active, but you never know.

[edit: from the MusicLab website -- MidiOverLan CP is compatible with 10.9, so off we go! After I finish this cue...]

Thanks again!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

I've been running the following under it for a long time with no problems:

Omnisphere v1.5.8d

Vienna Ensemble Pro 5.3.13240 

PLAY 4.1.6

Kontakt 5.3.1.37
Massive 1.4.0
Battery 3 3.2.3 
Absynth 5 -- 5.2
Guitar Rig 4 -- v4.2.2

And Apple is about to come out with another OS in a couple of months - one that I'm looking forward to for some non-musical iPhone integration features.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 14, 2014)

By the way, if you need to upgrade the memory in your 2008 8-core, this is the time to do it. I just added 16GB (4x4GB) from 18004memory.com via ebay for $160.

My guess is that they're blowing it out while the blowing is good.


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## Carbs (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

Since updating to Mavericks I've had much more crashing in Logic X caused by Kontakt (latest version). Sometimes 9 times a day, sometimes I'm lucky and will go a couple without. 

I can't get my Cubase 7 and 7.5 projects to even open. Putting together a PC for Cubase now, so not to worried about that.

The other issue I've run into is sputtering audio from sites, like sound cloud, that use quicktime 10. This has been fixed by using a web browser other than Safari (I installed firefox, no sputtering audio there). 

I plan on going back to 10.8.5, which was much more stable for me. YMMV


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## MichaelL (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

I installed Mavericks a few months ago. I've had random kernel panic issues since then, where my MAC shuts down and reboots on its own. 

I think doing clean install may be the only solution. But, I may wait for Yosemite to come out in the fall.


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## Carbs (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*



MichaelL @ Mon Jul 14 said:


> I installed Mavericks a few months ago. I've had random kernel panic issues since then, where my MAC shuts down and reboots on its own.
> 
> I think doing clean install may be the only solution. But, I may wait for Yosemite to come out in the fall.



Now that you mention it, that was happening to me as well. That was the biggest bummer of all. Then it just stopped happening, and I forgot all about it. I have no explanation for it.


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*



MichaelL @ 14th July 2014 said:


> I installed Mavericks a few months ago. I've had random kernel panic issues since then, where my MAC shuts down and reboots on its own.
> 
> I think doing clean install may be the only solution. But, I may wait for Yosemite to come out in the fall.



yikes



MichaelL @ 14th July 2014 said:


> I think doing clean install may be the only solution.



I don't know how to do that without the agony of reinstalling many bits of software I've probably forgotten.

My iTunes library lives on another drive, but there are always those fiddly little things one forgets, like the MOTU drivers, and every one of them takes time.

Anyway, thanks for the warnings Michael and Carbs.


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## cc64 (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

Hi John,

Mavericks has been good apart from QuickTime X issues with audio cards. A bit what Carbs has already mentioned.

My card is a Metric Halo and they where quick getting a new driver out which fixed this. I'm pretty sure MOTU is good too by now.

I recently had a kernel Panic unplugging my portable Glyph drive(FW800). When i read the crash log it pointed to my Metric Halo MIO 2882 so i wrote them and they answered within a few minutes saying it was a known bug on apple's side. Tech support sent me a hot fix driver and all is well since.

I had jumped on the Mavericks bandwagon pretty soon because i had read that there where many "under-the-hood" tweaks that made it a far better OS for audio. Can't say i've noticed anything, but apart from the 2 issues mentioned in my post it has been very painless. IMO i wouldn't go through the trouble of installing Mountain Lion etc... Since you mention you CCC'd your drive, go for it and if it goes bad, go back to where you where before... 

HTH

Claude


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 14, 2014)

Claude, can you say more about that known issue with the 2882 (which I also use)? Is it only unplugging FW drives, i.e. a FW issue?

The only crashes I've had under Mavericks - or really in recent history - are system freezes in Safari, and I think that's because of the privacy extensions I use.

Without discounting the two reports here or saying they're not real, I think they may be outliers. We'd be reading a lot more of them if they were common.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 14, 2014)

Also, aren't the Kontakt/Logic X issues gone with the latest version? I read about those on this site.


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## Carbs (Jul 14, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jul 14 said:


> Also, aren't the Kontakt/Logic X issues gone with the latest version? I read about those on this site.




Yes, I've read that too...but if they are, my system didn't get the memo.


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## dinerdog (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

Zero problems with my MOTU 828mkII. I also installed from a CarbonCopyClone to a new SSD. I couldn't possibly do all that NI stuff again, and Spectra on another drive etc. etc.


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## cc64 (Jul 14, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jul 14 said:


> Claude, can you say more about that known issue with the 2882 (which I also use)? Is it only unplugging FW drives, i.e. a FW issue?



Hi Nick,

well since i immediately sent the crash log to MH and Jon at tech support replied with a fix that involved going to the terminal and entering voodoo codes, i'm afraid i can't explain anything here. I just did what the man told me to do ; )

Here's MH's reply to me.

"We believe the issue that leads to the panic is triggered by a bug in Apple OS that has been reported to Apple but not yet fixed. If there is something we can do in the meantime to work around the panic, we will push an update."

But in all honesty this happened to me only once, and since the terminal voodoo stuff, it's all clean now, or so it seems...

Sorry for not being more helpful here.

The driver Hotfix(5.4d229) they sent me was to stop QT X from acting weird with stuff like Soundcloud and playing QT movies with stuttering audio.

Best,

Claude


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

Since I have a fairly old computer, would it be crazy to download Mavericks and save it, in case I can't do that later?

Probably it would, since it looks as though they offer a couple of other older OS alternatives on the Apple website.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 14, 2014)

John, you have your back-up to restore from if you have issues

I personally would just let the updater do its thing. Dollars to donuts you'll be absolutely fine.

Thanks Claude, then I won't worry.


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## Dracarys (Jul 14, 2014)

I wouldn't upgrade to Mavericks yet, Mountain Lion and cubase 6 are rock solid in every aspect. The only reason I upgraded was because of Pro Tools 11 x64 which requires Mavericks for full upgrade support. If you search the forums Logic X is very unstable will all versions of Kontakt.

My mac book pro is from 2010, and I found lion and mountain lion to work better on it, so I'm unsure a 2008 machine is wise.

However, steinberg stated Cubase 6 is not supported in Mavericks, and mine runs fine. People have even been complaining about Cubase 7 on mavericks.

It's all a gamble, but you don't want to be the minority, and unless you need software that demands Mavericks I would stay with Mountain Lion. 

If you're currently not in the middle of any projects, just do it!


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## JohnG (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

I'm still in Snow Leopard, and some software, like Kontakt, no longer supports it.

Otherwise I would stay where I am.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

John, there is a workaround that allows K5.3 to work with Snow Leopard.

I love Cubase 6 on SL so I did the fix. My friend Nutotech found the fix on the forum via Re- Peat. I'm sure I can get him to repost it, but I don't want to encourage your Luddite ways if you're feeling brave :wink:


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## Nathanael Iversen (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

I upgraded to Mavericks months ago. No issues here. Logic ProX, Mainstage, Sibelius all run fine, along with Live9, VEP, etc. I was on 10.6.8 forever as well, but that ship has sailed. I'm on Mavericks latest update and Windows 8.1 under bootcamp. Both OS's seem stable for audio work, in my experience.


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## JohnG (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

Indeed, Larry, "Luddite" would be the correct expression. I have seven computers wired together and I have a special bit of loathing for each one!

Can you spell, "Vista?"

Anyway, I did it. So far so good. If I get crashes today, I'm going to revert.

Thank you EVERYONE for your thoughts and help. That's what makes v.i. a good place.


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## JohnG (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

And it looks as though I have to update Word and Excel. Outrageous. I paid good money for those programs in 2004 and they worked just fine.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 15, 2014)

Oh, I didn't realize you were still on 10.6. Yes, that's when they removed Rosetta so you can't run PowerPC programs.

I keep an old machine for that.


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## JohnG (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*

The nerve of these guys. I want software to work forever with no flaws, no matter what I do to my computer.

And free, too.

And free tech support. From someone with a nice voice.


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## germancomponist (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: Mavericks (again)*



JohnG @ Tue Jul 15 said:


> The nerve of these guys. I want software to work forever with no flaws, no matter what I do to my computer.
> 
> And free, too.
> 
> And free tech support. From someone with a nice voice.



:mrgreen:


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## JohnG (Jul 17, 2014)

So far, so good.

Updated DP to 8.06, Kontakt and all the NI software, Omisphere. Repaired permissions twice (a lot were repaired, both times, which is always a bit disconcerting).

Impressed with Apple and the other vendors. It's amazing how complicated the DAW machines are when you go back through what you use all day.


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## Dracarys (Jul 17, 2014)

Good to hear! 

If it hasn't already been mentioned in this thread, take a look at disabling 'App Nap' for DP and possibly VePro, this was also recommended by Steinberg for Cubase:

http://www.tekrevue.com/tip/disable-app ... mavericks/


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## JohnG (Jul 17, 2014)

One (non-music-related) problem with Mavericks -- I can't use my HP Scan software any more.

Solution: Apple Mavericks' built-in "Image Capture" software.

http://www.switchingtomac.com/tutorials ... e-capture/

My method:

Launch “Image Scan” software

Select “Shared” 

Select HP Officejet Pro

Click “overview”

Adjust image target with little handles

Hit “Scan” button in lower right

Software automatically saves image as “Scan” in a new window

Double-click, it will open in Preview and you can save it under whatever name you like.


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## charlieclouser (Jul 17, 2014)

I built a Mavericks boot disc to try out Logic X on my Mac Pro 2010 12-core.

Two pieces of PCIe hardware don't work anymore:

TC PowerCore = card not found. We knew this would happen, not sure if it's purely a software issue or what, but PowerCore PCIe is a no-go.

Sonnet Tempo Pro = this is a PCIe card onto which you mount two standard 2.5" SSD drives. According to Sonnet, it's supposed to work, and I spent a while on the phone with their knowledgable tech support guy, checking that Mavericks wasn't missing some software component of PCIe support - and it all looked as it should, but the drives attached to the card do not mount and do not appear in Disc Utility. This rig works fine on the same computer booted up under Snow Leopard.

So… yeah. Teething pains for sure.

I will wait until I get some Mac Pro cylinders before I fully implement Mavericks.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 17, 2014)

John, I forgot about the HP software (and even if I'd remembered, I wouldn't have been able to tell you which OS X version broke it).

But Image Capture is just as good, in fact it seems to be a little faster.


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## studioj (Jul 18, 2014)

two things happened to me when updating... 1st was that mail stopped being able to search messages. Even though spotlight could find mail, any search in the mail app turned up 0 results. 2nd was Snapper lost the ability to create mp3's. I haven't solved either of these problems. What is a solid and quick mp3 converter app? something that is a drag to convert or select and click? The mail thing is a drag, I've installed the free mozilla thunderbird for now to search emails. All audio apps and peripherals seem to be working ok though.


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## Mike Greene (Jul 18, 2014)

studioj @ Fri Jul 18 said:


> . . . mail stopped being able to search messages.


Yep! This was a huge problem for me, too. If I get an email from someone saying they really like my whistle, I need to be able to search to see if they're a RealiWhistle customer, or if they're one of my girlfriends.

I figured out a way to get it working, though. Mind you, there might be an easier and more elegant way (which hopefully someone else will chime in with!), but I needed to get my mail searches working immediately, so this what I did:

First, I'd go into your User Library folder and make a duplicate of the "Mail" folder. (Or whatever the name of the data folder that has all your messages and stuff in it.) During my first couple experiments to get Mail to search properly, I screwed a few things up (accidentally deleted some messages), so the backups came in handy.

Next, open Mail and create a Mailbox folder (in the sidebar, where all the other folders are) called " Temp." Note that I put a few spaces at the front of " Temp", so that alphabetically, it appears at the top of my folders. That way it will be easy to find for the next steps.

Then drag all the emails from each of your other Mailboxes into " Temp," wait a few seconds so your Mac can digest these emails, then drag them back to whatever mailbox they came from. If it's more than a hundred or so emails, again wait a few seconds so that Mail registers them all. So you'll drag everything from "Brony Friends" into "Temp," then back to "Brony Friends." Then drag everything from "Strippers" into "Temp," and then back into "Strippers." And so on. These steps force Mail to "see" these emails and enter them in its search database.

I have a ton of Mailbox folders and subfolders, and I've kept *everything* over the last 15 years, so this took me an hour or two to do, but now everything is searchable again. (Plus, going through each Mailbox also reminded me of clients I haven't talked to in a decade, but are still worth a poke!)

By the way, there's something called "Rebuild Mailbox." I thought that would be the magic solution, but stay away from it. Granted, I might have been doing something wrong, but this is what caused me to lose a bunch of messages in my first attempts at getting my messages indexed.


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## studioj (Jul 18, 2014)

Wow thx for the detailed reply Mike! I'm testing your method out right now... and not getting results. Should it be a "smart" mailbox? Should it be within the email account folder, or "On my Mac?? I wonder if I'm missing one other step. I have a couple folders with just a few messages in them so I 'm testing with those first. Thanks for any info!


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## Mike Greene (Jul 18, 2014)

Hmmm . . . I wonder why it's not working for you. Maybe there was something else I was doing without realizing it. Just too be clear, though, I was dragging messages from mailbox to mailbox, not dragging the mailboxes themselves.

I made the " Temp" Mailbox "On My Mac." It was a regular one, not a smart one. The original ones are regular ones, too.


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## JohnG (Jul 18, 2014)

Mike Greene @ 18th July 2014 said:


> It was a regular one, not a smart one.



My mailboxes are already smarter than I am, even when they're not smart mailboxes. If you follow me.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 18, 2014)

That's a corrupted installation, not a normal thing that happens when you install Mavericks. All my Mail stuff is intact, including rules to put mail from strippers into my "Mike Greene" folder, etc.

I hated giving up the ability to run Rosetta programs on my main machine, but I want to keep up with the security updates.


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## Mike Greene (Jul 18, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Jul 18 said:


> All my Mail stuff is intact, including rules to put mail from strippers into my "Mike Greene" folder, etc.


Good! Oh, wait . . . you meant to say "_Send to_ Mike Greene" folder, right?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 18, 2014)

Yes, of course.

What did you think?


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## NYC Composer (Jul 19, 2014)

What's a "stripper"?


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## munician (Jul 19, 2014)

> Sonnet Tempo Pro = this is a PCIe card onto which you mount two standard 2.5" SSD drives. According to Sonnet, it's supposed to work, and I spent a while on the phone with their knowledgable tech support guy, checking that Mavericks wasn't missing some software component of PCIe support - and it all looked as it should, but the drives attached to the card do not mount and do not appear in Disc Utility. This rig works fine on the same computer booted up under Snow Leopard.



Strange. I have the same Sonnet Card with two SSDs on my 2008 MacPro under Mavericks and have no problem with it...


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## studioj (Jul 20, 2014)

Mike Greene @ Fri Jul 18 said:


> Hmmm . . . I wonder why it's not working for you. Maybe there was something else I was doing without realizing it. Just too be clear, though, I was dragging messages from mailbox to mailbox, not dragging the mailboxes themselves.
> 
> I made the " Temp" Mailbox "On My Mac." It was a regular one, not a smart one. The original ones are regular ones, too.



ugh, still no luck for me... I've tried every suggestion out there it seems. Only thing I haven't tried is deleting the accounts and then reactivating and letting Mail re-download the messages from the IMAP server. perhaps that will work. Evidently this is a really prominent issue with mavericks... some folks are able to apply simple steps like re-indexing or re-building with successful results, others not so much. 

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/55 ... 0&tstart=0
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/54 ... 0&tstart=0


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 20, 2014)

Can you delete all your email and reimport it from a back-up?

I had a Mail nightmare a couple of years ago, when I had to do that. A corrupted message was causing some mail not to be sent - which I only discovered after a few months.

If I remember right, I imported everything and then moved it into new mailboxes (named, say, "old email") to keep it quarantined.


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## synergy543 (Jul 20, 2014)

charlieclouser @ Thu Jul 17 said:


> I built a Mavericks boot disc to try out Logic X on my Mac Pro 2010 12-core. ...Two pieces of PCIe hardware don't work anymore:...
> 
> Sonnet Tempo Pro = this is a PCIe card onto which you mount two standard 2.5" SSD drives. According to Sonnet, it's supposed to work, and I spent a while on the phone with their knowledgable tech support guy, checking that Mavericks wasn't missing some software component of PCIe support - and it all looked as it should, but the drives attached to the card do not mount and do not appear in Disc Utility. This rig works fine on the same computer booted up under Snow Leopard.....


Sonnet doesn't work eh? I thought Mavericks didn't work on my computer.

Well, that's disappointing but I'll take Sonnet's advantages any day over Maverick's features. So I too will stick with 10.5 until someday when I get a shiny new trash can.


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