# The Most Important Movie...



## Hans Adamson (Sep 27, 2009)

...of our generation:

"Capitalism - a Love Story" - by Michael Moore

Go see it.


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## lux (Sep 28, 2009)

erh...a bit emphatic?


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## Niah (Sep 28, 2009)

i'm downloading it as we speak


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## Hans Adamson (Sep 28, 2009)

The movie is most important for those living in the U.S. It deals with the questions: What is capitalism? What is socialism? and - What is it to be American?

In a time when angry protesters riled up by right-wing talk radio hosts interrupts town hall meetings all over the country and calls President Obama a "socialist" trying to destroy the "American way", this film is crucial.


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## Niah (Sep 28, 2009)

Hans Adamson @ Tue Sep 29 said:


> The movie is most important for those living in the U.S. It deals with the questions: What is capitalism? What is socialism? and - What is it to be American?
> 
> In a time when angry protesters riled up by right-wing talk radio hosts interrupts town hall meetings all over the country and calls President Obama a "socialist" trying to destroy the "American way", this film is crucial.



I haven't seen it, so it's hard for me to comment on this but...I'm pretty sure of what to except from a Michael Moore film

Michael Moore's "documentaries" aren't exactly balanced or unbiased, or films that show both sides of the story as well as looking at the big picture.

However on the subject matter of his films and considering the state of country, not to mention how misguided most americans seem to be, I think that an approach like this is actually necessary

Unfortunately the people that call obama a socialist, nazi and a muslim terrorist, and that could benefit the most from seeing this will likely not see his films at all

In the same way that people will not see "religulous" with bill maher for the same reasons

Michael Moore was on CNN talking to wolf blizter and one of the questions wolf asked was "Are you a socialist?" ~o)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 28, 2009)

I think he missed the boat in some ways and nailed it in most others. As Eliot Spitzer said on Bill Maher last night, it's not capitalism that's gone awry, it's a perversion of capitalism, and that's where Moore is wrong - or maybe just using the wrong terminology. He also misses one side of some issues.

But some of the film is incredibly moving. You see the human side of what's going on, and regardless of what you think of him, you can't avoid being affected.

I recommend it.


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## germancomponist (Sep 28, 2009)

In November it comes to Germany and I sure will watch it.


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## Hans Adamson (Sep 28, 2009)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Sep 28 said:


> I think missed the boat in some ways and nailed it in most others. As Eliot Spitzer said on Bill Maher last night, it's not capitalism that's gone awry, it's a perversion of capitalism, and that's where Moore is wrong - or maybe just using the wrong terminology. He also misses one side of some issues.
> 
> But some of the film is incredibly moving. You see the human side of what's going on, and regardless of what you think of him, you can't avoid being affected.
> 
> I recommend it.


What I saw in the movie was an opportunity for Americans to take a step back and see what went wrong. An opportunity to change perspective to one that is not defined by the extreme right. Was FDR a good American President? His agenda was identical to the one of Social Democracy in Europe today. Is socialist really a derogatory invective, or is it inherent also in the heart of American constitution/society. The American Constitition doesn't mention capitalism. Moore applauds capitalism, the way it worked at one point, under certain circumstances. His movie shows that a capitalist system without check and balance is not in the interest of the general population.


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## kdm (Sep 29, 2009)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Sep 28 said:


> I think missed the boat in some ways and nailed it in most others. As Eliot Spitzer said on Bill Maher last night, it's not capitalism that's gone awry, it's a perversion of capitalism, and that's where Moore is wrong - or maybe just using the wrong terminology.



Exactly right. This is what I've been saying for years when the "capitalism is evil" mindset arises. 

Capitalism is a simple concept of private ownership of business with individual investment and return/reward. It's been around for centuries and is used in most countries that aren't under a completely government controlled and owned economic system. 

It has been an unduly over-generalized term; pointed to as the root of all evil in the US, but greed and dishonesty are really the problems, and those exists in every system, government, business and every individual to some degree, and always will until we take responsibility for our own actions. 

You can't put handcuffs on greed without putting free enterprise and free-market (competitive) economies in prison. The best solution is too simple for most governments and societies to propose and truly support: integrity at the individual level. 

Change has to happen within business, not without. But it can, and that level of integrity and compassionate business mindset can have a very powerful impact on the world - much more than any government-based social system. 

Just my .02. I've only seen parts of the film - some seemed reasonable, and in other cases Moore did miss the point. For one, capitalism is what allowed him to make films to begin with - semantics mostly as Nick pointed out, but still important to keep in mind.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 29, 2009)

However the part about the divide between rich and poor - and how it really took off with Reagan - is very much to the point. He touched on that in the movie, and he's absolutely right.

What he's rallying against is simple greed - a perversion of capitalism. He started filming that before the collapse, of course, and before the douchebag demonstrations.

And you're right about Germany. We'll never get that here, unfortunately. People are too stupid - or maybe the conditions aren't right for their intelligence to surface.


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## kdm (Sep 29, 2009)

Hans Adamson @ Tue Sep 29 said:


> kdm,
> Please see the movie before discussing it. Moore is not saying what you are implying. You are starting a whole different discussion here on your own. Europe is a good example of what you say won't work, but it does. If you want to discuss the movie, the entrance requirement is to see he whole movie. Otherwise what's the point?



My apologies Hans. I thought the thread was about the topic of the movie, not a review of the movie itself.


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## interoctave (Sep 29, 2009)

Please guys...

1. Don't get hung up on semantics
2. See the movie in its entirety before coming to conclusions.

Hans has it right...

- B. Safir


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## lux (Sep 30, 2009)

well, the title of this thread assumed that all watchers for it are Americans.

perhaps this is itself a possible reply to the questions about what means being an American today.


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## SergeD (Sep 30, 2009)

"No Country for Old Men"

A remastered "Planet of the Apes". 

SergeD


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## lux (Sep 30, 2009)

> Lux,
> What direction the U.S. takes today will probably impact the world somehow. I wrote the title, and I am not American.



well, this counts though, i guess:



> *Location:*Los Angeles




But i see what you mean. But on a very general standpoint i think it makes sense starting to "localize" american debates. Sounds like a good root and carries the concept that the world is a group of distinct and equally respectable countries. And that internal affairs of US administration arent exactly the whole world's affairs.


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## The_Dark_Knight (Nov 3, 2009)

secrets


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## dinerdog (Nov 4, 2009)

The_Dark_Knight

You are so right about 'over population'. I'm so amazed that no one talks about this anymore. 20 or 30 years ago it was an important topic and actually could have been addressed on some level. Maybe it's not politically correctly, but it surely is one of the major impediments to positive global changes. Sadly.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 4, 2009)

"They even tax air / pollution"

That part you got wrong, I'm afraid.


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## mf (Nov 4, 2009)

The_Dark_Knight,
When you say 'they,' who do you have in mind exactly?


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