# Jerry Goldsmith - Enterprise Theme Mockup



## Kent (Jan 14, 2018)

Hey all,

For the past few weeks I've been teaching myself Cubase (coming from Logic and DP) by building a whole new orchestral template.

I'm now in the tweaking phase, and I'd like some fresh ears.

What do you think of this excerpt? 

Enterprise Theme Mockup


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## angeruroth (Jan 14, 2018)

IMHO the sound isn't bad.
The beginning lacks the brass punch/crispness, and it feels a bit slow (sorry  I'm a big fan of the shows).
Anyway, I think its a good result. Just not perfect to my ears, but take my comments with a grain of salt; I'm listening with a smartphone right now.
Good luck in your endeavour!
If I may ask, what libraries?


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## StephenForsyth (Jan 14, 2018)

Mostly good! But I think you thinned out the cellos way too much though they almost sound electric.



angeruroth said:


> IMHO the sound isn't bad.
> The beginning lacks the brass punch/crispness, and it feels a bit slow (sorry  I'm a big fan of the shows).



He's doing "The enterprise" cue from ST:TMP, not the TV show intro. 

dis 1


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## angeruroth (Jan 14, 2018)

Oh, my mistake then.


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## Kent (Jan 14, 2018)

Stephen, I agree with you: the cello sound isn’t quite there yet. It’s a delicate balancing act to get the meat without making it too whooshy (where the bow is) or boomy. Almost!

Part of that is the reverb I chose too, I think. I’m not sure I’m a fan on it on second listen - I’ll post my “dry” version when I get back home and see how it goes.

anger, Stephen’s right - it’s lacking brassy punch and a little slow because that’s the “Enterprise” cue from TMP (when there’s that infamous super-long approach to the Refit...which is the best-looking ship in all of Star Trek, so I don’t mind it, plus we get this beautiful cue!). I plan to arrange either a brassier version from TMP or the very similar TNG intro version (which would allow me to add my D-50) to compare the same basic material across different instrumentations. Look out for that in the near future!


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## Kent (Jan 14, 2018)

And what you hear in this mock-up is:

Woodwinds: Berlin
Brass: Spitfire
Strings: LASS
Percussion: EWQLSO 
Harp: EW Hollywood 
Piano: 8dio 1928 (I guess ‘Legacy,’ now)


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## Kent (Jan 14, 2018)

I guess the woodwinds are technically legacy too


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## jamieboo (Jan 15, 2018)

Great!
Reminds me what a beautiful piece of music this is!
Yes, I too reckon the cellos sound a bit thin.
And the high string chords accompanying - I'm wondering if they should be more tremolo somehow. I'm not sure what's actually going on in the original, but there's more movement - as if they're maybe combining a molto vibrato with the tremolo. But of course you're limited by what LASS has available.
But, generally, lovely!


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## Kent (Jan 15, 2018)

jamieboo said:


> Great!
> Reminds me what a beautiful piece of music this is!
> Yes, I too reckon the cellos sound a bit thin.
> And the high string chords accompanying - I'm wondering if they should be more tremolo somehow. I'm not sure what's actually going on in the original, but there's more movement - as if they're maybe combining a molto vibrato with the tremolo. But of course you're limited by what LASS has available.
> But, generally, lovely!


Yeah, the high strings in the A section all have this wonderful overlapping two-note tremolo figuration - a Goldsmith staple. LASS, however, is limited to unmeasured draw-bow-back-and-forth-rapidly tremolo.

And thank you!


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## Kent (Jan 15, 2018)

Here is an updated version with:

1. What I hope is a better cello sound - what do you think?
2. No finishing reverb


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## jamieboo (Jan 15, 2018)

Nice. Though I think it needs the reverb.

Also what you said before about Goldsmith's 'overlapping two-note tremolo figuration' - I just checked the that page in the score and yeah it's a very soft trilling. Lovely.


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## markleake (Jan 15, 2018)

I love Goldsmith's Stark Trek work... it's great to hear a mockup of it! 

One thing I notice in your mockup is the chords at 0:36 where the piano (and harp?) comes in don't sound like the same as the original... they stand out too much and break the feel a bit, it sounds like notes of the chord hit too close together I think.


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## Kent (Jan 15, 2018)

markleake said:


> I love Goldsmith's Stark Trek work... it's great to hear a mockup of it!
> 
> One thing I notice in your mockup is the chords at 0:36 where the piano (and harp?) comes in don't sound like the same as the original... they stand out too much and break the feel a bit, it sounds like notes of the chord hit too close together I think.


Like...the arpeggiations are too fast? Is that what you’re saying?


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## markleake (Jan 15, 2018)

kmaster said:


> Like...the arpeggiations are too fast? Is that what you’re saying?


Yes. Possibly too loud also, but that may be fixed by the appeg. speed.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 16, 2018)

kmaster said:


> Hey all,
> 
> For the past few weeks I've been teaching myself Cubase (coming from Logic and DP) by building a whole new orchestral template.
> 
> ...



Is your goal to mimic the original recording or do you use that mockup just for personal reflection on how to balance your template or / and education purposes? When it is like that I would say it is very good you do that. Regarding your mockup: I think you put some effort and work into it and I can hear that. Actually it is very hard to do a mockup especially of such a cue because the cue shits every samples in the butt: It has this delicate sounds on the strings but still very expressivo with a good amount of vibrato and it is lyrical which is imo anyways a challenge to do convincing with samples for several reasons. I think the main downside in this mockup are the Cellos for most as they sound a bit boxy and lack of cream and lushness like in the original. You can try attenuate on the cellos the upper mids a bit to make them a bit softer. Your violins are also a bit too heavy and thick, they often are with most or all of the sample libraries because it is not filled room live situation where the thickness can´t resonate through the room like it is with samples, so in order to make it closer to the recording you can tryout using a lowshelf, also try to look into the higher frequencies spectrum and compare it with the recording. It think these two parts are crucial here to get tight and right. Also your violins feel a bit too loud in comparison and your Violas glue figures a little to low, but just a little tiny. Take that with a grain of salt: I just stood up and listened over laptop speaker.


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## Kent (Jan 17, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Is your goal to mimic the original recording or do you use that mockup just for personal reflection on how to balance your template or / and education purposes? When it is like that I would say it is very good you do that. Regarding your mockup: I think you put some effort and work into it and I can hear that. Actually it is very hard to do a mockup especially of such a cue because the cue shits every samples in the butt: It has this delicate sounds on the strings but still very expressivo with a good amount of vibrato and it is lyrical which is imo anyways a challenge to do convincing with samples for several reasons. I think the main downside in this mockup are the Cellos for most as they sound a bit boxy and lack of cream and lushness like in the original. You can try attenuate on the cellos the upper mids a bit to make them a bit softer. Your violins are also a bit too heavy and thick, they often are with most or all of the sample libraries because it is not filled room live situation where the thickness can´t resonate through the room like it is with samples, so in order to make it closer to the recording you can tryout using a lowshelf, also try to look into the higher frequencies spectrum and compare it with the recording. It think these two parts are crucial here to get tight and right. Also your violins feel a bit too loud in comparison and your Violas glue figures a little to low, but just a little tiny. Take that with a grain of salt: I just stood up and listened over laptop speaker.


Alexander, my goal is sort of in-between both. Mostly, I'm trying to make a "real-sounding" virtual orchestra that can believably approximate all sorts of grand orchestral film scores and concert pieces. I don't want to 100% nail the sound of the Goldsmith recording because then, for example, I'd be further from the Williams or Silvestri or the Copland or the Hansen or what have you that I also plan to mock up at some point. So, while I take a lot of cues from this particular recording - it is an incredible one - I also understand that to follow it too closely limits me in other ways. So imagine the end goal as, I don't know, the Boston Pops or the LA Phil at the Hollywood Bowl, not exactly the sound of the film score but still really amazing.


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## Kent (May 27, 2018)

Update, now that I’m in-between projects and can focus on this again:



I took everybody’s comments, especially @AlexanderSchiborr ’s, and came to something I’m pretty happy with!

Can it be improved? Probably. But that’s what further mock-ups of different pieces are for.


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## Paul T McGraw (May 29, 2018)

@kmaster this latest version sounds very close to the original. You should be very pleased with this.


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## Kent (May 30, 2018)

Paul T McGraw said:


> @kmaster this latest version sounds very close to the original. You should be very pleased with this.


That's very kind of you! Thank you.


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