# Add Keyboard drawer to a regular desk?



## Yogevs (May 27, 2020)

I'm a software engineer. My home office has an Ikea desk which I work on almost daily. I would love to add to it a keyboard drawer where I can keep my 61-keys keyboard. Any suggestions?


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## rudi (May 27, 2020)

I'd be very interested in something like that as well


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## Yogevs (May 27, 2020)

I did a dry run - manually holding the keyboard in my hands under the desk and it actually feels super uncomfortable... I think I won't do it... :/


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## jason.d (May 27, 2020)

That is actually my setup and I like it. 

I bought a nice piece of plywood from Home Depot and ordered standard desk keyboard sliders and it all came together nicely.


It saves space on my desk. The only complaint is that I have to keep my office chair set lower so that my knees are hitting the drawer.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 27, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> I'm a software engineer. My home office has an Ikea desk which I work on almost daily. I would love to add to it a keyboard drawer where I can keep my 61-keys keyboard. Any suggestions?



Could you post a picture of your setup?

I may have suggestions.


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## styledelk (May 27, 2020)

This has vexxed me in the budget world. I have a large Ikea Linnmon desktop with four adjustable legs. Ordered a nice H-shaped keyboard stand. Went to the trouble of clearing the desk and raising it to give me room underneath.
Only to find that the NI Komplete Kontrol S88 mk. 2 was only just too long (and thus wouldn't be able to really come in and out easily). It's holding an S49 now. Having the 88 key on top of the desk just took up too much room.

Some day here I'll have to commission Nick Batzdorf when I'm ready to spend real money on furniture. Most of the real options for a slideout keyboard tray either can't support an S88 or are professional studio gear.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 27, 2020)

Well, I'm still happy to make suggestions for setups that aren't forever, like this one.

And I feel very well qualified, having tried every imaginable setup that doesn't work.


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## Yogevs (May 28, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Could you post a picture of your setup?
> 
> I may have suggestions.


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## creativeforge (May 28, 2020)

jason.d said:


> That is actually my setup and I like it.
> 
> I bought a nice piece of plywood from Home Depot and ordered standard desk keyboard sliders and it all came together nicely.
> 
> ...



Could you post pics on that drawer? With and without the keyboard? Thanks!


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## ALittleNightMusic (May 28, 2020)

Haven't folks found that if you lower your chair so the keyboard fits underneath the desk, then the computer monitor or the desk surface is too high (with the computer keyboard and mouse)? That's been my frustration with most of these pre-made studio desks with keyboard drawers, but then again, I'm not very tall.


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## styledelk (May 28, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Haven't folks found that if you lower your chair so the keyboard fits underneath the desk, then the computer monitor or the desk surface is too high (with the computer keyboard and mouse)? That's been my frustration with most of these pre-made studio desks with keyboard drawers, but then again, I'm not very tall.



Yes. The balance between hits-my-knees and my-neck-doesn't-hurt is very thin. Right now I have it hitting my knees and a hurt neck. Not a long term strategy, but I'm tired of fussing.


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## ptram (May 28, 2020)

Unfortunately it is always a trade-off between the computer keyboard and the piano keyboard. They both pretend to stay in the same place, at the same height and position.

I have a Quik Lok large Z-stand for heavy keyboards, and the dedicated drawer for a computer keyboard. This latter is at the right height, while the piano keyboard is too high. Should I lower them, the drawer would be too low.

In the end, I sit at the right height for the computer keyboard. If I have to play in realtime on the piano, I lift my chair, and sit at a more comfortable height for playing, with the drawer pushed in.

The Quik Lok stand, including wheels, is as high as a traditional desk. So, unless you plan to use it without wheels, it is more or less the same as a desk+computer keyboard drawer.

It's not bad for composing. For pure pleasure, I have a separate piano keyboard at the right height.

Paolo


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 28, 2020)

ptram said:


> Unfortunately it is always a trade-off between the computer keyboard and the piano keyboard. They both pretend to stay in the same place, at the same height and position.



Not a trade-off if you get the heights right!


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 28, 2020)

If you want to keep your existing desk, I'd just make a cove for your keyboard, and slide it out when you need it. Your monitors and stuff can go on top of it, and you only have to move the laptop on top of it to play.

Not ideal, because you have to move stuff to play, but better than what you have now.

It might be more comfortable if you made something to angle the keyboard forward too, i.e. raise its rear.


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## jason.d (May 28, 2020)

creativeforge said:


> Could you post pics on that drawer? With and without the keyboard? Thanks!



So funny timing, I’m about to move so it’s all wrapped up at the moment, but as soon as I’m all setup again I’ll post it.


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## ptram (May 28, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Not a trade-off if you get the heights right!


To be in an ergonomic position, piano keyboards and computer keyboards require the same height: in a way that your elbow forms a square angle. You need room for your hands, so the one or the other will end up too high or too low.

Obviously, if you can devote a separate workplace for separately making music and typing, you can accept a less comfortable position for one of them.

Paolo


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 28, 2020)

ptram said:


> To be in an ergonomic position, piano keyboards and computer keyboards require the same height: in a way that your elbow forms a square angle. You need room for your hands, so the one or the other will end up too high or too low.
> 
> Obviously, if you can devote a separate workplace for separately making music and typing, you can accept a less comfortable position for one of them.
> 
> Paolo



I've been working at the "prototype" for almost 15 years, have sold about 30 of them to other composers, been making them myself for the past three or so. Sorry to be such a shameless serial slut (work in general has slowed to a near-halt during the pandemic and I'm no longer too proud to grovel), but the sliding desktop concept really does work.

I shipped this one to a composer in Paris last year.


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## styledelk (May 28, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I've been working at the "prototype" for almost 15 years, have sold about 30 of them to other composers, been making them myself for the past three or so. Sorry to be such a shameless serial slut (work in general has slowed to a near-halt during the pandemic and I'm no longer too proud to grovel), but the sliding desktop concept really does work.
> 
> I shipped this one to a composer in Paris last year.



I still love this. Going to DM you to just get a sense of cost. (I'm in NY, so shipping may be ehhhhh).


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## ALittleNightMusic (May 28, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I've been working at the "prototype" for almost 15 years, have sold about 30 of them to other composers, been making them myself for the past three or so. Sorry to be such a shameless serial slut (work in general has slowed to a near-halt during the pandemic and I'm no longer too proud to grovel), but the sliding desktop concept really does work.
> 
> I shipped this one to a composer in Paris last year.



Clever design! What's the height of the desk (computer keyboard) and height of the computer monitor shelf in the back?


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 28, 2020)

Thanks.

I go from the height of the white keys above the ground, between 28" and 29-1/2" like a piano. So it depends on the MIDI keyboard model (obviously you set it as low as possible), but it's about 3" above that [edit - meaning the bottom is 31 - 32-1/2"]. That is a little higher than a standard desktop, but it's still perfectly comfortable.

For the top shelf, I leave 3" - 4" of clearance for stuff on the desktop to slide under. You don't want to knock over coffee cups, etc. when you slide the desk in. That puts the top at about 3', give or take.

And in case it's not obvious, the idea is that your computer monitor and speakers are always the right distance. It takes literally a second to move between playing and "writing" positions.


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## Yogevs (May 30, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> If you want to keep your existing desk, I'd just make a cove for your keyboard, and slide it out when you need it. Your monitors and stuff can go on top of it, and you only have to move the laptop on top of it to play.
> 
> Not ideal, because you have to move stuff to play, but better than what you have now.
> 
> It might be more comfortable if you made something to angle the keyboard forward too, i.e. raise its rear.



I actually really like this idea. Are there any products like this out there?


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 30, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> I actually really like this idea. Are there any products like this out there?



I make them custom to order.

And yes, even I am starting to be embarrassed at all the self-promotion I'm doing.


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## Yogevs (May 30, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I make them custom to order.
> 
> And yes, even I am starting to be embarrassed at all the self-promotion I'm doing.



I ment the "If you want to keep your existing desk, I'd just make a cove for your keyboard, and slide it out when you need it. Your monitors and stuff can go on top of it, and you only have to move the laptop on top of it to play."


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 30, 2020)

Well, if anyone wants instructions how to make that, I'm happy to explain.

You go to a lumber yard and get some plywood - probably plywood - cut to size if you don't have a circular saw (or better yet a table saw). Then there are many ways to put it together, from crude but sturdy to sturdy and not crude.


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## Bakhtin (May 30, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I've been working at the "prototype" for almost 15 years, have sold about 30 of them to other composers, been making them myself for the past three or so. Sorry to be such a shameless serial slut (work in general has slowed to a near-halt during the pandemic and I'm no longer too proud to grovel), but the sliding desktop concept really does work.
> 
> I shipped this one to a composer in Paris last year.


Have to say these look fantastic! I've stopped myself from buying desks with keyboard drawers because I don't like the idea of moving my chair and listening position every time I need to switch what i am doing.

It looks like the sliding 'mechanism' of the desk top is done solely with wood and no metal drawer slide?

And by any chance do you live on the west coast of Canada?


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## gsilbers (May 30, 2020)

I thought this was more common...
Buy server racks rails. There are some that can be screwed to the button of the desk. And add a plywood.

the only thing is the height of the keyboard needs to be low. So m audio key station is good.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 30, 2020)

Bakhtin said:


> Have to say these look fantastic! I've stopped myself from buying desks with keyboard drawers because I don't like the idea of moving my chair and listening position every time I need to switch what i am doing.
> 
> It looks like the sliding 'mechanism' of the desk top is done solely with wood and no metal drawer slide?



Yeah, hardwood and put on paste wax. For years I used drawer slides, but I figured out three desks ago that they're not necessary. People made drawers for years before drawer slides were around.

It's quite likely pine or Douglas fir (i.e. soft wood) would work too, but I don't want it to get worn down.



> And by any chance do you live on the west coast of Canada?



Los Angeles. Right now I wish I did.

Shipping to Canada isn't outrageous, and we've shipped desks there a few times, but you want to figure out the tariffs first to avoid surprises.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 30, 2020)

Front view of one side. Hope this makes sense.

Actually the horizontal black part doesn't have to be that thick - it can be a 1/8" strip.


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## Yogevs (May 31, 2020)

The more I think about it - the more simple it gets in my mind.
I can just buy a regular shelf, add 4 small "legs" and that's it. I'm kind of done. No?


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## PrimeEagle (Jun 1, 2020)

ptram said:


> To be in an ergonomic position, piano keyboards and computer keyboards require the same height: in a way that your elbow forms a square angle. You need room for your hands, so the one or the other will end up too high or too low.
> 
> Obviously, if you can devote a separate workplace for separately making music and typing, you can accept a less comfortable position for one of them.
> 
> Paolo



I think the problem is that they need to be at the same height for the top of each keyboard, i.e. where your hands are. But a music keyboard is thicker than a computer keyboard, so the desk surface height needs to be different for each one.


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## easyrider (Jun 1, 2020)

My ikea Fredde Desk with S61mk2 underneath


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## ptram (Jun 1, 2020)

PrimeEagle said:


> But a music keyboard is thicker than a computer keyboard, so the desk surface height needs to be different for each one.


That's the main problem for me: if you put the top of the musical keyboard at the right level, you end up bumping your knees on it. When playing, you are sitting a bit back, so it is not a problem. But when typing, you usually sit more forward, and you meet the bottom of the musical keyboard.

Also, the height of a piano keyboard is higher than what I would find comfortable for sitting at the desk. Playing piano is an athletic exercise, requiring all your body to be projected over the keyboard. Sitting at the desk you are more comfortably plunged into your chair, and you will sit lower to avoid the chair border to cut your leg's circulation.

A solution like the workstation made by Nick wouldn't work for me, because the computer keyboard would be too high. The top of my typing keyboard is at 26" (66 cm), and it's perfect for me. It would also be the ideal height for the musical keyboard, but then its bottom would be too low.

Individual height is obviously very important, when taking the measurements for a workstation. At 175 cm, I'm starting to be a bit short in this world of giants.

Paolo


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## RAdkins (Dec 30, 2020)

I just added a keyboard tray to my studio trends 46” desk For my NI a49 midi controller.

I went to Lowes and purchased a set of sliding cabinet rails, 4 5” L brackets, 36” shelf, #10 3/4 wood screws and #10 1/2 machine screws and washers.


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## creativeforge (Dec 30, 2020)

RAdkins said:


> I just added a keyboard tray to my studio trends desk For my NI a49 midi controller.
> 
> I went to Lowes and purchased a set of sliding cabinet rails, 4 5” L brackets, 36” shelf, #10 3/4 wood screws and #10 1/2 machine screws and washers.


Neat! How is the leg room? enough room to not hit the drawer?


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## RAdkins (Dec 30, 2020)

I have the drawer mounted as far back as it can go on 14” sliding rails.

With the drawer closed, I can sit at the desk normally without touching the bottom of the shelf. If I pull the keyboard out and move my chair back to play I am good as well. I might be able to move the mounts up one notch go get more thigh room. Overall I am happy with the desk and the new keyboard tray.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 30, 2020)

RAdkins said:


> I just added a keyboard tray to my studio trends desk For my NI a49 midi controller.
> 
> I went to Lowes and purchased a set of sliding cabinet rails, 4 5” L brackets, 36” shelf, #10 3/4 wood screws and #10 1/2 machine screws and washers.


How much did you have to raise your desk in order to fit this in and give yourself enough room? Looks like a good 5-6" at least?


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## RAdkins (Dec 30, 2020)

I didn’t raise the desk as all, it’s not adjustable to my knowledge. From the floor to the top of the desk is 29” and to the top of the keybed is 26” or so.

edit: I just read the assembly instructions. It looks like the casters are height adjustable. I do not plan on raising them as it will make the desk too height for regular computer use.


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## Super8Boy (Sep 24, 2021)

@easyrider That's a very cool setup. I also have a Fredde Ikea desk and am considering getting another one for music production, if I can make the keyboard work underneath.
I was about to pull the trigger on a Buso Audio Artist88 or Artist61 desk (better alternative imho to the Output Platform desk), but the Fredde is far more affordable. 
The desktop cutout also allows to not only play some of the keyboard without having to pull it out much at all, but even when you pull it out more, you can actually stay much closer to the desk, accessing computer keyboard/mouse, as you can see the Komplete's Kontrol screens and knobs in the cutout.

Do you have any more photos of your setup and details on the type of hardware and materials you used to make this happen? 

How do you find it in terms of height? As I was experimenting fitting my Komplete Kontrol underneath, which has to be low enough, but the pots/knobs not to hit it as you slide the keyboard to/from under the desk.
I would consider even raising the desk ever so slightly, in order to not have the chair too low when I am playing for longer periods of time, as the surface of the desk is @73cm (71cm from under that worktop to the ground), but because of the (4cm high) horizontal bar running under the desk, the clearance between the top of the drawer board and the underside of the worktop would need to be at least 12cm for it to work comfortably with that Komplete Kontrol keyboard (which is 8.5cm high), so the bottom of the keyboard is @59cm from the ground.
Add to that the thickness of the drawer board (which could be cut at the front like the Output Desk keyboard tray I guess, in order to bring the legs closer), say 2cm, then your keyboard tray's underside is only 57-58cm to the ground (most keyboard stands tend to be at least 60-61cm high for comparison purposes).

If you were trying to put in a weighted keyboard underneath (like a Nord Stage 3 88 @19Kg, or a Studiologic SL @13Kg, which are both nearly 13cm high), on top of the larger clearance which means that 59cm distance Ground-Top of Keyboard tray must decrease from from 59 to 54.5cm, you have the weight factor to consider with the need to have a very sturdy pullout drawer mechanism.

It would be amazing to get more details from you on the setup


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## kitekrazy (Sep 24, 2021)

I've downsized my controllers. I thought it would be great if someone created a shelf where a QWERTY is on top and the controller on the bottom. I thought about getting a DJ rack to do this. Space is limited for me. Sometimes my options have been using tv trays for each one.


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