# Wow - Chris Hein Ensemble Strings Looks Great



## robgb (Apr 11, 2018)




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## robgb (Apr 11, 2018)

@reutunes Hey, Reuben, are these samples pretty dry?


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## Mike Fox (Apr 11, 2018)

I'm curious too.


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## Quasar (Apr 11, 2018)

robgb said:


> @reutunes Hey, Ruben, are these samples pretty dry?


I'm not Reuben and I don't know. But as an owner of CH Winds, Orch Brass and the Solo Cello, all of those are as dry as Death Valley if you turn off the onboard Room and Body, so I can only imagine so...


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## pfmusic (Apr 11, 2018)

Ensemble library sounds great. I have the cello solo library and as Quasar mentioned, it's drier than an Egyptian's sandles once the reverb is switched off. I suspect the ensemble library will be the same since it's created from the solo instruments.


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## Parsifal666 (Apr 11, 2018)

If they are as dry as I suspect these might be mandatory.


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## germancomponist (Apr 11, 2018)

Sounds very good to my ears.


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## thevisi0nary (Apr 11, 2018)

That sounds awesome.


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## muziksculp (Apr 11, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> If they are as dry as I suspect these might be mandatory.



It depends how dry is dry. I don't know where these strings were recorded, but I don't think they were recorded in a big hall, most likely a medium, or small hall.


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## Jay Panikkar (Apr 11, 2018)

Nah, this must have been recorded dead dry. Editing and mixing a sample library like this would be ridiculously difficult if there is room content. 

I wonder if CH will create a 2nd Violins section by re-editing the violins later on.


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## robgb (Apr 11, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> It depends how dry is dry. I don't know where these strings were recorded, but I don't think they were recorded in a big hall, most likely a medium, or small hall.


It's made up of individual solo string samples instead of sampling the entire ensemble. If suppose if someone was very, very patient (and talented), they could take an existing solo library and do much the same to create their own ensembles... I think I'd rather pay for Chris to do it.


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## tmhuud (Apr 11, 2018)

I don't think I've been this excited about a new string library for quite some time. I really like the sound of this. Well done Chris.


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## cadenzajon (Apr 11, 2018)

The recording/editing concept here looks like a winner to me... much of the flexibility of VSL DS without the hassle of doing all the hard work ourselves. (Not to mention many, many times more articulations.)

Kudos to @Chris Hein, and once you recover from all the painstaking recording/editing of this library, I will suggest you continue with a CH Zimmer Strings edition using 344 players.


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## Casiquire (Apr 11, 2018)

I had no doubt that the library would sound fantastic. Can't wait to see more!


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## robgb (Apr 11, 2018)

cadenzajon said:


> The recording/editing concept here looks like a winner to me..


I think this is the same technique Kirk Hunter used with his latest violin library. I could be wrong.


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## reutunes (Apr 11, 2018)

I've had it for a couple of months in it's beta form. Really stunning sound and loads of articulations. I think sometimes people think Chris' libraries are too complex but this one plays right out of the box.

Are the samples dry? Yes! I don't think I've ever heard anything as thirsty.


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## Mike Fox (Apr 11, 2018)

reutunes said:


> I've had it for a couple of months in it's beta form. Really stunning sound and loads of articulations. I think sometimes people think Chris' libraries are too complex but this one plays right out of the box.
> 
> Are the samples dry? Yes! I don't think I've ever heard anything as thirsty.


How well do the shorts perform? Can fast ostinato passages be easily achieved? It seems like most of the demos focus on sustains/legatos, so it's hard to tell.


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## reutunes (Apr 12, 2018)

From


Mike Fox said:


> How well do the shorts perform? Can fast ostinato passages be easily achieved? It seems like most of the demos focus on sustains/legatos, so it's hard to tell.


From recollection (I'm not in the studio right now) there are 6 different short lengths and each can have multiple "note heads" (basically attack styles). Never had an issue with performing the shorts. As the ensembles have been designed from the solo instruments it's safe to say that if the solo instruments can do it, then the ensembles can too... and much more besides.


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## DSmolken (Apr 12, 2018)

Looks very interesting, indeed.

And whoever successfully does this kind of thing with a choir will have a million dollar product on their hands, I suspect.


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## JeffvR (Apr 12, 2018)

Wow. Great sound and unique approach!


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## mikeh-375 (Apr 12, 2018)

If only there were 2nd violins too.


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## pettinhouse (Apr 12, 2018)

Chris is a great sound designer. One of the pioneer in sound design so I'm sure this ensemble strings sounds great.

Thanks for the info. I will check it out

Andrea


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## chrisphan (Apr 12, 2018)

Is there any info on how this one handles legato delay? I see varying degrees of MIDI delay in the demonstration video.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Apr 12, 2018)

Looking forward to this one.

Glad I held off on any Spitfire purchases.


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## quantum7 (Apr 12, 2018)

DSmolken said:


> And whoever successfully does this kind of thing with a choir will have a million dollar product on their hands, I suspect.



OMG that would be awesome!!!


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## quantum7 (Apr 12, 2018)

How much $ is this going to be?


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## Lassi Tani (Apr 12, 2018)

quantum7 said:


> How much $ is this going to be?



Here from the other thread:

The release of CH-Ensemble Strings will be *April 16th.*
The countdown is running here.

The price for CH-Ensemble Strings will be: $ / € 399,-
CH-Solo Strings users will get the Ensemble Strings as an upgrade for $ / € 349,-


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## Vardaro (Apr 13, 2018)

Kirk Hunter's Concert Strings 3 already allows us to choose from the 16 violins, so we can give the 2nd-violin section a different sound and staging, and maybe avoid phasing issues. I won't try to compare Kirk's string tone to Chris Hein's (!), but _all_ real string ensembles have a 2nd violin section. In vocal terms, vn1:sopranos; vn2:altos; violas:tenors; cellos:basses; double-basses:well, double basses!


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## Saxer (Apr 13, 2018)

There are two section sizes. You can use the smaller group for second violins.


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## robgb (Apr 13, 2018)

sekkosiki said:


> The price for CH-Ensemble Strings will be: $ / € 399,-


I get it. It takes a lot of time and effort to build these things. Hell, I do little projects of my own for my own use and it takes me hours. So I understand why the prices are high with a community so small. But damn, I can pick up Agitato for $248 and Adagietto for $120. Older libraries, yes, but both very, very fine. $399 is certainly much better than the typical spitfire price for strings, but it's still too rich for my blood.


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## Casiquire (Apr 13, 2018)

Saxer said:


> There are two section sizes. You can use the smaller group for second violins.



Gah. Then not only do the seconds sound way too small by comparison, but I lose even more options for divisi.


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## thesteelydane (Apr 13, 2018)

robgb said:


> I get it. It takes a lot of time and effort to build these things. Hell, I do little projects of my own for my own use and it takes me hours. So I understand why the prices are high with a community so small. But damn, I can pick up Agitato for $248 and Adagietto for $120. Older libraries, yes, but both very, very fine. $399 is certainly much better than the typical spitfire price for strings, but it's still too rich for my blood.



Well, that and paying musicians, studio, and engineers.


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## robgb (Apr 13, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> Well, that and paying musicians, studio, and engineers.


A problem I never expect to run into.


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## thesteelydane (Apr 13, 2018)

robgb said:


> I problem I never expect to run into.



Good for you then. But I'll bet Chris Hein had this "problem" and so I think the price is fair. I also know from slowly becoming a developer myself, that something like this wasn't put together in mere hours, but rather through months and months of full time work. And I personally don't consider paying other professionals a "problem", but maybe that's just me.


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## robgb (Apr 13, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> But I'll bet Chris Hein had this "problem" and so I think the price is fair.


As I said in my post, I'm aware it takes a lot to make these things. That's a given. The price is still too high for me, especially since I already have five or six string libraries. That said, as I pointed out in my original post, it looks like a great library.


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## Parsifal666 (Apr 13, 2018)

sekkosiki said:


> Here from the other thread:
> 
> The price for CH-Ensemble Strings will be: $ / € 399,-
> CH-Solo Strings users will get the Ensemble Strings as an upgrade for $ / € 349,-



This is not a bad deal at all for us solo Violin users. I'll end up getting everything anyway; these instruments are really all that's interesting me right now. It's interesting though, when I went shopping/investigating new libraries I soon decided Spitfire was out and kind of felt secure in what I already have. And now Chris puts this out lol! 

It's just hard to resist another high quality, DRY ensemble string library.


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## sostenuto (Apr 13, 2018)

Agree *@ robgb* !! __ surely do not have as many as you, but ...... right now struggling with choice of: Spitfire (older) Solo Strings @ $129. ... OT_ FC 2.0 @ $184. ... KH_Front Row Violins @ $199.

Can't justify ALL (3), but they are only $113. more than CH _ Ensemble Strings ! This seems truly high.


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## thesteelydane (Apr 13, 2018)

robgb said:


> As I said in my post, I'm aware it takes a lot to make these things. That's a given. The price is still too high for me, especially since I already have five or six string libraries. That said, as I pointed out in my original post, it looks like a great library.



I acknowledge that. My point was more that you yourself only seemed to acknowledge the work hours that goes into the creation of these things, and not the significant up-front monetary investment developers have to make. And as I have said before, I don't think always trying to get other professionals to work for you as cheaply as possible is good for the long term sustainability of the business we are all trying to make a living in. We should be pushing each others wages up, not down. That's one of the reasons I applaud Spitfire - they pay their musicians well. I'm sure Chris Hein do to. When I was running my string recording business in Vietnam, I paid local musicians working for me more than double what they asked for, because I thought it was fair, and because I wanted to cultivate an environment where Vietnamese musicians would begin to demand a proper wage for what is, at the end of the day, a highly skilled job. A terrible business decision some would say, and I certainly could have made more for myself if I wanted to, but absolutely necessary to the long term survival of all of us in my mind. But I'm getting off track...

I actually don't like this library or it's approach all that much, I just think the price is fair for what it is, and what has clearly gone into it.


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## muziksculp (Apr 13, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> I actually don't like this library or it's approach all that much, I just think the price is fair for what it is, and what has clearly gone into it.



Hmmm... Interesting comment.


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## thesteelydane (Apr 13, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Hmmm... Interesting comment.



To my mind and experience as a player, as well as a recording musician, the sound of a room is an integral part of the sound of an instrument, especially so with strings, even more so with brass, but for reasons I don't understand much less so with woodwinds. I love CH woodwinds, I think the solo strings are great considering they are dry, but I have yet to hear a reverb unit, hardware or software, that can make a truly believable impression of a real hall - not to mention what playing in a real hall does to us players' imagination and the colours we produce, even if we're recording samples note by note. I love the control you get with well scripted dry libraries, and I have a lot of them, but if I really want to make a mockup sound as believable as possible, nothing beats a well recorded wet library in a great hall - there's no contest (except for woodwinds for some reason).

I record myself dry almost everyday for clients. You would have to have at least 10 microphones pointing at a violin/viola from a variety of angles and distances to capture the different sounds it emits in all directions. The back of the violin is putting out a completely different balance of colours than the deck, and those hit the floor, bounce and blends with the rest. To get any kind of realistic close recording of a cello you need at least 2 mics. Or you can just get into a real nice sounding hall, and get everything you want with a single stereo mic. Makes creating virtual instruments out of the recording a real pain, but it will ALWAYS sound better and more realistic - because it is, you know, realistic.


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## robgb (Apr 13, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> I actually don't like this library or it's approach all that much, I just think the price is fair for what it is, and what has clearly gone into it.


I'm not sure I understand this straw man argument you're engaging in. I never said the price wasn't fair. I said I can get Agitato and Adagietto for less and that CH's price is too rich for my blood. Where exactly did I say anything about what's fair? Are you arguing simply to be contrary?


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## thesteelydane (Apr 13, 2018)

robgb said:


> I'm not sure I understand this straw man argument you're engaging in. I never said the price wasn't fair. I said I can get Agitato and Adagietto for less and that CH's price is too rich for my blood. Where exactly did I say anything about what's fair? Are you arguing simply to be contrary?



I ALMOST am yes, because in this, and all your previous postings, you never acknowledge the cost of producing a library, only that it takes "hours". My initial issue with your complaint was that you didn't seem to consider CH had to pay musicians, engineers and studio rent, remember? And when you say that's not a "problem" you will encounter personally, I only pointed out that to produce a library of this quality DOES include paying musicians, and hopefully paying them well.


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## robgb (Apr 13, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> I ALMOST am yes, because in this, and all your previous postings, you never acknowledge the cost of producing a library, only that it takes "hours". My initial issue with your complaint was that you didn't seem to consider CH had to pay musicians, engineers and studio rent, remember? It's not like he pockets all 400 for himself, you know....


It isn't my responsibility to consider what CH pays for these things. My responsibility as a consumer is to react to the product and either buy or not buy. I'm choosing not to buy because it's too expensive for me. I didn't say it was too expensive for you or for anyone else. People have to make their own decision what they can afford to spend their money on. So, basically, you're simply here because you've been upset by some past post of mine and you've decided to troll this thread. Whatever, dude. If you're becoming a developer, you'd better get used to the idea that customers are finicky and can only spend so much of their hard-earned money. Some will fall over themselves to buy whatever you're selling. Others will be more prudent. It's part of life. Nothing to get upset about. Enjoy your life, and good luck with your future endeavor.


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## muziksculp (Apr 13, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> To my mind and experience as a player, as well as a recording musician, the sound of a room is an integral part of the sound of an instrument, especially so with strings, even more so with brass, but for reasons I don't understand much less so with woodwinds. I love CH woodwinds, I think the solo strings are great considering they are dry, but I have yet to hear a reverb unit, hardware or software, that can make a truly believable impression of a real hall - not to mention what playing in a real hall does to us players' imagination and the colours we produce, even if we're recording samples note by note. I love the control you get with well scripted dry libraries, and I have a lot of them, but if I really want to make a mockup sound as believable as possible, nothing beats a well recorded wet library in a great hall - there's no contest (except for woodwinds for some reason).



I totally agree with you. Yes, the Sound of the Room is an Integral part of the sound of the Instrument, That's why imho. very dry recordings of bowed stringed instruments don't sound that great without any reverb, adding Reverb makes them sound much better, but still not as realistic and beautiful sounding compared to a bowed string instrument/s played in a rich acoustic hall. I also know exactly what you mean about what a great sounding acoustic hall can do to players, it is a very rewarding experience compared to playing in a dry room/studio.

I still think there is a balancing act between keeping the samples relatively dry, to better edit, and manage legato transitions, plus the ability to have the bow sound more present, (edgy sounding) compared to a more medium or large hall that produces a more smooth/lush string sound. I feel that this library will be very useful, and it already sounds good from the demos, and provides us with more options, and colors to work with.


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## thesteelydane (Apr 13, 2018)

robgb said:


> It isn't my responsibility to consider what CH pays for these things. My responsibility as a consumer is to react to the product and either buy or not buy. I'm choosing not to buy because it's too expensive for me. I didn't say it was too expensive for you or for anyone else. People have to make their own decision what they can afford to spend their money on. So, basically, you're simply here because you've been upset by some past post of mine and you've decided to troll this thread. Whatever, dude. If you're becoming a developer, you'd better get used to the idea that customers are finicky and can only spend so much of their hard-earned money. Some will fall over themselves to buy whatever you're selling. Others will be more prudent. It's part of life. Nothing to get upset about. Enjoy your life, and good luck with your future endeavor.



Apart from the fact that I'm not trolling, I simply pointed out that CH had to spend a lot more than just his time on this, and then felt provoked by your next comment, I agree with all of that. Peace out.

Edit: I'd like to amend that. I DO think you have a responsibility as a consumer to either buy or not buy a product based on MORE than just economic self interest. If a product was produced with exploited or underpaid labour, as is the case with many things these days (although thankfully almost certainly not sample libraries), then your responsibility extends far beyond your selfish economic interests. I hope we can agree on that.


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## robgb (Apr 13, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> hope we can agree on that.


We do. This discussion is about sample libraries.


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## Pianolando (Apr 13, 2018)

IMHO the price is in the budget segment compared to the competitors - same as CSS which was considered impossibly cheap for its quality when it came out a few years ago, and much cheaper than Berlin Strings (€840), Spitfire (€799), LASS ($799.00) and Vienna Synchron Strings (€ 595 for standard version).

With CHES you get two section sizes and lots and lots of articulations, but 2nd violins are sorely missing compared to all the other libraries, maybe that can be remedied later, but who knows? 

Sure there are many cheaper and older options which still sound as good as ever, Agitato and HS for instance, and eventually this library too will fall in price, but compared to most new offerings with the same content I this think it's very reasonably priced, cheap even. Is Adagiato+Adagietto a better buy for you robgb? Well, that depends, because if you have six string libraries, you most likely already have everything you "need". Then what sound would you like to add? One option is recorded in a huge church (thus extremely lush) and one is extremely dry and therefore extremely customizable so they are very different offerings.

That beeing said - I think CHES too sounds extremely lush and very realistic, maybe even more so than any of the libraries recorded in real halls, so i will buy it and try if it is as good as I hoped.


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## Vardaro (Apr 14, 2018)

Is it safe to presume that the Ensemble Strings use the the same samples as the solo strings, but "re-assembled"? But since the extra samples in Solo String Extended were offered "free", we can hardly expect the Ensemble price to follow the same logic..

And I imagine the 2nd violin section could be scripted as an update?


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## Casiquire (Apr 14, 2018)

Vardaro said:


> Is it safe to presume that the Ensemble Strings use the the same samples as the solo strings, but "re-assembled"? But since the extra samples in Solo String Extended were offered "free", we can hardly expect the Ensemble price to follow the same logic..
> 
> And I imagine the 2nd violin section could be scripted as an update?



No, for one thing the ensembles contain many more players per section


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## RandomComposer (Apr 14, 2018)

Well I was going to buy SCS for small strings, should I still buy SCS as my main chamber string library or do you think this would work in place?


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## Pianolando (Apr 14, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> No, for one thing the ensembles contain many more players per section


On the contrary, I believe that one of the videos shows that the library is made just like that: combining the different solo samples, with RRs, with different “body” settings of course, detuned and moved around in timing to create a believable section. In that way 4 violins with a huge amount of different settings and a huge sample pool can become a 16 piece (or something) violin section.


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## thesteelydane (Apr 14, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> I totally agree with you. Yes, the Sound of the Room is an Integral part of the sound of the Instrument, That's why imho. very dry recordings of bowed stringed instruments don't sound that great without any reverb, adding Reverb makes them sound much better, but still not as realistic and beautiful sounding compared to a bowed string instrument/s played in a rich acoustic hall. I also know exactly what you mean about what a great sounding acoustic hall can do to players, it is a very rewarding experience compared to playing in a dry room/studio.
> 
> I still think there is a balancing act between keeping the samples relatively dry, to better edit, and manage legato transitions, plus the ability to have the bow sound more present, (edgy sounding) compared to a more medium or large hall that produces a more smooth/lush string sound. I feel that this library will be very useful, and it already sounds good from the demos, and provides us with more options, and colors to work with.



There’s a nice rawness and intimacy to close and dry recordings for sure, and it certainly has many useful musical applications, also in media music. I do it all the time for my own stuff. It’s just difficult, if not impossible, to take a close and dry recording and make it sound like a good player in a good hall with artificial reverbs, no matter how good your reverbs. Good halls are instruments in themselves, and must be recorded as such. You can achieve a half decent impression of it with good mixing skills, but it will never sound as good as the real thing. Then again, a recording will never sounds as good as being there in person, so it’s more a question of achieving “good enough” rather than perfectly real. I personally think wet libraries get closer, and with much less work so I can spend my time on writing music instead, but I understand the allure of dry libraries, and have quite a few of them. I just never try to blend them, because it immediately reveals why recordings in good rooms sound better than reverbs.

All that said, the libraries I create for myself are completely dry, but I’m not trying to imitate real orchestral instruments, I’m trying to create virtual instruments from real sources, that can do things not possible or practical in the real world - and for that, recording dry is great.


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## robgb (Apr 14, 2018)

Pianolando said:


> IMHO the price is in the budget segment compared to the competitors - same as CSS which was considered impossibly cheap for its quality when it came out a few years ago, and much cheaper than Berlin Strings (€840), Spitfire (€799), LASS ($799.00) and Vienna Synchron Strings (€ 595 for standard version).


I completely agree with you there (and made mention of Spitfire, which I believe vastly overcharges), but in a time when complete orchestras are available for $300 to $500, $400 for a strings library is too high for me to justify buying. Again, this is my own thing.


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## robgb (Apr 14, 2018)

Pianolando said:


> On the contrary, I believe that one of the videos shows that the library is made just like that: combining the different solo samples, with RRs, with different “body” settings of course, detuned and moved around in timing to create a believable section. In that way 4 violins with a huge amount of different settings and a huge sample pool can become a 16 piece (or something) violin section.


With time and patience, this is something all of us could do with an existing solo library. In fact, I believe someone here on VI did it using Jasper Blunk's free violin library.


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## JEPA (Apr 14, 2018)

for what i have seen and heard CH seems to be one of the best orchestral strings library producer/programmer/creative. I would like to buy this soon!


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## Casiquire (Apr 14, 2018)

Pianolando said:


> On the contrary, I believe that one of the videos shows that the library is made just like that: combining the different solo samples, with RRs, with different “body” settings of course, detuned and moved around in timing to create a believable section. In that way 4 violins with a huge amount of different settings and a huge sample pool can become a 16 piece (or something) violin section.



That doesn't contradict my point at all. I'm aware that's how the library was recorded, but I think it's a safe assumption that it was made with more samples than are included with the solo strings. There are even more samples in the Ensemble strings than in the Solo strings. The question I was answering was whether Ensemble strings were just the existing Solo strings reassembled. They are not, they're more than that.


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## markleake (Apr 14, 2018)

RandomComposer said:


> Well I was going to buy SCS for small strings, should I still buy SCS as my main chamber string library or do you think this would work in place?


Hi Random. It will depend on a few things, like what other libraries you already have, whether you want a string library that is quite dry and may need some work to add reverb and make the sound be realistic, and also the size of the library (number of players). SCS is one of the best libraries out there for what it does, and is well know/well proven. It is a chamber sized section that you can get to sound bigger with not too much effort, but it won't completly give you the symphonic sized sound. It is recorded in a large hall, so has a fairly wet (wonderful) sound. It has a lot of articulations, some which are uniquely Spitfire. There are other good options on the market for chamber strings also - I suspect the CH library this thread is about wouldn't compete with SCS or those others so well, but that is just my personal opinion after listening to the demo. Like I say, it depends on your needs. I don't know if that helps?


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## NYC Composer (Apr 15, 2018)

SCS shorts are simply outstanding. I go back to them over and over. Just sayin’.


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## Arbee (Apr 15, 2018)

I read the clickbait heading and listened to some of it. Not crazy about what I've heard so far (hard to put into words but "mechanical" comes to mind), but certainly not bad. Will follow with interest.


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## reutunes (Apr 15, 2018)

Arbee said:


> I read the clickbait heading and listened to some of it. Not crazy about what I've heard so far (hard to put into words but "mechanical" comes to mind), but certainly not bad. Will follow with interest.


Some people's idea of "click-bait" is way off. The heading is enthusing about a particular library... and so is the content. Where's the bait in that?


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## Vardaro (Apr 15, 2018)

Just checked the sample count. Each of the 5 solo string (extended) instruments contains over 10.000 samples; the string ensembles draws on a pool of 120,000 solo samples but uses 53,000...

So we pay for the immense work but not new recordings.


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## robgb (Apr 15, 2018)

Vardaro said:


> So we pay for the immense work but not new recordings.


I'm curious why it matters if they're new recordings? A recording is a recording.


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## Casiquire (Apr 15, 2018)

reutunes said:


> Some people's idea of "click-bait" is way off. The heading is enthusing about a particular library... and so is the content. Where's the bait in that?



Agreed 100% and I think it sounds really great. Plus it's just a forum member stating an opinion shared by many, not a developer saying they're revolutionizing legato or announcing that they'll be announcing something.


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## ChristianM (Apr 15, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> Agreed 100% and I think it sounds really great. Plus it's just a forum member stating an opinion shared by many, not a developer saying they're revolutionizing legato or announcing that they'll be announcing something.



Oooh ! This library isn't revolutionizing legato ? What a disappointment!


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## Olivier1024 (Apr 15, 2018)

ChristianM said:


> Oooh ! This library isn't revolutionizing legato ? What a disappointment!


Wait the update in the next few years ... for free ...

Who has tried this library ?


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## Vardaro (Apr 15, 2018)

robgb said:


> 'm curious why it matters if they're new recordings? A recording is a recording.


Some of us had reckoned the price was high but justified by extra samples.


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## Chris Hein (Apr 15, 2018)

ChristianM said:


> Oooh ! This library isn't revolutionizing legato ? What a disappointment!


Haha, not really.
but there are two new faders which provide some new features:
Thats "Speed" and "Offset" for the portamento transitions.
Offset lets you truncate the transition. When set to 0 you'll hear the slide over a whole octave, setting it to 100 cuts the transition at the beginning and play a semitone, like a grace note. Everything in between is possible.
Speed lets you adjust the speed of the portamento.
The combination of both faders offers a whole new world of portamento transitions.
From a slow octave to a very short grace note.

To provide more food for your discussion, I have a new "Details" video ready.
And, as always VI-Control members are the first to see it.
I finished it a minute ago and its uploading while I write this.

CH-Ensemble Strings "Details":


Chris Hein


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## Vardaro (Apr 15, 2018)

Chris Hein said:


> Offset lets you truncate the transition. When set to 0 you'll hear the slide over a whole octave, setting it to 100 cuts the transition at the beginning and play a semitone, like a grace note. Everything in between is possible.


What I miss in all string VI's is the "classical" shift where the portamento stops halfway: the previous finger slides, then the new finger "pops" onto the next note.


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## tmhuud (Apr 15, 2018)

Lovely. The Note Head and amount of Vibrato control is outstanding in this library.


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## MaxOctane (Apr 15, 2018)

“I loaded the new CH Ensemble Strings and pushed the low D key. You won’t beieve what happened next!”


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## gyprock (Apr 15, 2018)

MaxOctane said:


> “I loaded the new CH Ensemble Strings and pushed the low D key. You won’t beieve what happened next!”


The D# key said “Woa, me next!”


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## robgb (Apr 15, 2018)

Chris Hein said:


> CH-Ensemble Strings "Details":
> 
> 
> Chris Hein



As I said in my original post, Wow. May have to reconsider my complaints about price...


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## muziksculp (Apr 15, 2018)

robgb said:


> As I said in my original post, Wow. May have to reconsider my complaints about price...



Given the amount of variety, flexibility, and control options CH-Ens.Strings offers, the price is very attractive. I don't know of any other Strings library that delivers so much to customize it to your taste, and needs. For me.. It's an instant buy.


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## Mike Fox (Apr 15, 2018)

Damn, these strings sound so unique! The repetitions seem like a lot of fun, and would be a fast way of writing/recording.


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## Casiquire (Apr 15, 2018)

Vardaro said:


> Just checked the sample count. Each of the 5 solo string (extended) instruments contains over 10.000 samples; the string ensembles draws on a pool of 120,000 solo samples but uses 53,000...
> 
> So we pay for the immense work but not new recordings.



Maybe I'm not great at math but if the solos use about 50,000 samples and the ensembles pull from 120,000 mixed down to 53,000, that still sounds like there are samples in the ensembles that aren't used in the solos.

Not to mention, I was under the impression that the extended strings were released sort of as a result of the Ensemble library, so even if I'm wrong, those ARE the new recordings.



Chris Hein said:


> Haha, not really.
> but there are two new faders which provide some new features:
> Thats "Speed" and "Offset" for the portamento transitions.
> Offset lets you truncate the transition. When set to 0 you'll hear the slide over a whole octave, setting it to 100 cuts the transition at the beginning and play a semitone, like a grace note. Everything in between is possible.
> ...




This looks so good! Very tempting


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## chapbot (Apr 15, 2018)

Amazing.


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## Chris Hein (Apr 15, 2018)

Vardaro said:


> What I miss in all string VI's is the "classical" shift where the portamento stops halfway: the previous finger slides, then the new finger "pops" onto the next note.


Right, that technique is mostly used on a downward move.
We have started working on this already. Its a bit more complicated to program it in a way that it sounds good.
A project for the next update.

Thanks all for your kind words.

Chris Hein


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## Pianolando (Apr 16, 2018)

Looks and sounds amazing. I didn't expect the "body" control to be present here as well, so I believe that Violins with a different body setting would work great as second violins. 

This is an Insta-buy for me!


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## Vardaro (Apr 16, 2018)

Chris Hein said:


> Right, that technique is mostly used on a downward move.


I would say fifty-fifty up & down, and more common than the "gypsy" slide.
I've tried intermediate "ghost" notes, but it takes ages. Looking forward to the future update!


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## Hanu_H (Apr 16, 2018)

This sounds really good. I haven't been this excited about a string library in a really long time. Finally someone is doing something new and unique instead of just recording a new library in a famous hall, with famous engineer. Of course those libraries have their uses, and they sound great out of the box, but the technology is getting a bit dated and has limited possibilities. The way this was recorded and scripted is giving us a lot of new ways to work. I am not in a market for a new string library at the moment(have too many already) but when I am, this will be my first choice. Not because it sounds amazing(even that it does), but it seems to gives more control how the line is played. It reminds me a bit of SM Brass...I bet you can use this in any type of music, from classical to funk. And that blending function...that's how it should be done in all string libraries.

-Hannes


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## Parsifal666 (Apr 16, 2018)

Great video, this looks like a must (and this will be the first vi I'll have bought since BHOT first came out).


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## Parsifal666 (Apr 16, 2018)

I'm wondering if Chris will be selling this also through Sweetwater, as he did much of his other instruments.


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## Garry (Apr 16, 2018)

I have the SWAM violin, cello, sax & trumpet from Sample Modelling/Audio Modelling. The playability of the Chris Heins instruments reminds me a lot of these. Does anyone have both and can say how well they blend? The SWAM instruments are very dry, as are the CH instruments, but CH has inbuilt reverb which looks really nice, but then how would I blend these with SWAM? Anyone have experience with this?


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## Shredoverdrive (Apr 16, 2018)

Garry said:


> I have the SWAM violin, cello, sax & trumpet from Sample Modelling/Audio Modelling. The playability of the Chris Heins instruments reminds me a lot of these. Does anyone have both and can say how well they blend? The SWAM instruments are very dry, as are the CH instruments, but CH has inbuilt reverb which looks really nice, but then how would I blend these with SWAM? Anyone have experience with this?


You can turn the reverbs off. Then you get nice dry samples. As dry as the Atacama.

Edit : I may have answered a bit quickly. It seems you know the CH samples are dry. I don't really understand the question, then.


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## Garry (Apr 16, 2018)

Shredoverdrive said:


> You can turn the reverbs off. Then you get nice dry samples. As dry as the Atacama.


Thanks, yes I realise that, but then I have no experience in terms of mixing dry libraries together and how well they bind with reverb added at the track or master level. Would be great to hear from anyone who has both libraries and whether they blend well and easily, or if you have to really have great mixing skills to bring them together.


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## Shredoverdrive (Apr 16, 2018)

Garry said:


> Thanks, yes I realise that, but then I have no experience in terms of mixing dry libraries together and how well they bind with reverb added at the track or master level. Would be great to hear from anyone who has both libraries and whether they blend well and easily, or if you have to really have great mixing skills to bring them together.


Ok, I get it now. I don't have SWAM instruments so others will give you better answers but as for mixing dry instruments, I use VSS2 and a glue reverb. It works more or less.


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## Garry (Apr 16, 2018)

Shredoverdrive said:


> Ok, I get it now. I don't have SWAM instruments so others will give you better answers but as for mixing dry instruments, I use VSS2 and a glue reverb. It works more or less.



Just looking at VSS2 - looks great, and love that you can download a trial version, so I plan to check it out. 

What do you use as a ‘glue reverb’. I have the trial versions of a couple of Valhalla products and (I know others will hate this, as I know how popular they are), wasn’t that impressed over what Chromaverb, now free in Logic, provides (sacrilege, I know!). Is there a particular facet of a ‘glue reverb’ that would make it better for this purpose than another reverb, such as Chromaverb?


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## Parsifal666 (Apr 16, 2018)

I turn off the "room" setting right off the bat with Chris's vis, I have never found a use for that, or the reverb on board in general. I do keep the "body" engaged though. It doesn't sound quite right to me unless that's on.


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## Pianolando (Apr 16, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I turn off the "room" setting right off the bat with Chris's vis, I have never found a use for that, or the reverb on board in general. I do keep the "body" engaged though. It doesn't sound quite right to me unless that's on.



I do the same with CH solo strings.


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## Shredoverdrive (Apr 16, 2018)

Garry said:


> Just looking at VSS2 - looks great, and love that you can download a trial version, so I plan to check it out.
> 
> What do you use as a ‘glue reverb’. I have the trial versions of a couple of Valhalla products and (I know others will hate this, as I know how popular they are), wasn’t that impressed over what Chromaverb, now free in Logic, provides (sacrilege, I know!). Is there a particular facet of a ‘glue reverb’ that would make it better for this purpose than another reverb, such as Chromaverb?


I use eastwest's reverbs. I have a subscription to their composer cloud.


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## Parsifal666 (Apr 16, 2018)

Shredoverdrive said:


> I use eastwest's reverbs. I have a subscription to their composer cloud.



I have what's been acclaimed as an "elite 'verb" (Altiverb) and STILL use Quantum Leap. It's a damn fine CR if you ask me. There's one in Cubase that's not terrible either...can't recall if its Roomworks or Reverance. Comes in handy, especially in a fix.

I'd go cuckoo for an AIR convo, but looks like that's extremely unlikely.


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## Hanu_H (Apr 16, 2018)

With SM Brass, I use EQ and VSS2 for positioning and EWQL Spaces for the hall. I am sure that this would sound great with that setup as well. I think it's a lot easier to blend dry libraries together than different wet libraries. I always have more problems blending wet libraries, even if they are recorded in the same hall. There is just something that doesn't sound right when all the instruments have the hall baked in. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

-Hannes


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## Nicola74 (Apr 16, 2018)

Hanu_H said:


> With SM Brass, I use EQ and VSS2 for positioning and EWQL Spaces for the hall. I am sure that this would sound great with that setup as well. I think it's a lot easier to blend dry libraries together than different wet libraries. I always have more problems blending wet libraries, even if they are recorded in the same hall. There is just something that doesn't sound right when all the instruments have the hall baked in. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
> 
> -Hannes


How do you use EQ with SM brass? I love those instruments, but I don't know how to eq them...sorry for the off topic


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## robgb (Apr 16, 2018)

Garry said:


> I have the SWAM violin, cello, sax & trumpet from Sample Modelling/Audio Modelling. The playability of the Chris Heins instruments reminds me a lot of these. Does anyone have both and can say how well they blend? The SWAM instruments are very dry, as are the CH instruments, but CH has inbuilt reverb which looks really nice, but then how would I blend these with SWAM? Anyone have experience with this?


SWAM strings, being modeled instruments, have a different kind of dryness. The first thing you want to do (in my opinion) is place them in a smaller space (using delay, perhaps), then buss them to a larger room reverb. I'd probably do the same with the CH strings, although I'd explore the room sounds there, first, before trying to create my own. The key will be to get them to sit the same basic distance, which can only be done with time and experimentation.


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## robgb (Apr 16, 2018)

Hanu_H said:


> There is just something that doesn't sound right when all the instruments have the hall baked in.


I've said this before and firmly believe that the baked-in hall sound was originally done a) out of convenience—meaning, easier to record with the hall than to isolate them; and b) as a selling point, because the ensembles sound gorgeous the moment you press a key. Unlike dry samples they take less work to sound good right out of the box, thus negating the need to learn about reverb, EQ, etc. Until, of course, you start mixing sample libraries and suddenly it all sounds like mud. This is why I asked up front if the samples are dry. I think any engineer will tell you it's ultimately much easier to deal with dry samples than with wet ones. But we live in an age of instant gratification, which is why even the dry libraries have lots of reverb by default. Fortunately, it can be turned off.


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## Parsifal666 (Apr 16, 2018)

robgb said:


> I've said this before and firmly believe that the baked-in hall sound was originally done a) out of convenience—meaning, easier to record with the hall than to isolate them; and b) as a selling point, because the ensembles sound gorgeous the moment you press a key. Unlike dry samples they take less work to sound good right out of the box, thus negating the need to learn about reverb, EQ, etc. Until, of course, you start mixing sample libraries and suddenly it all sounds like mud. This is why I asked up front if the samples are dry. I think any engineer will tell you it's ultimately much easier to deal with dry samples than with wet ones. But we live in an age of instant gratification, which is why even the dry libraries have lots of reverb by default. Fortunately, it can be turned off.



It can certainly be a crutch...to me, when it comes to brass and strings in particular the baked in libraries are (when it comes to getting paid for a great mock up or whatever) second choices. Good for an idea, good for the early sketch. But if I'm doing something for pay (and keep in mind I'm only good enough to pay a couple of bills a month with my music) I eschew all of those baked in libraries. As Robg mentioned, you get mud. I learned the hard way that mixing, say, Albion III with Hollywood Strings just leaves you with one set of strings sounding both further away and softer than the dry ensemble. You could conceivably make that work in your mix; I personally just nip it in the bud and substitute something dry.


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## Hanu_H (Apr 16, 2018)

Nicola74 said:


> How do you use EQ with SM brass? I love those instruments, but I don't know how to eq them...sorry for the off topic


The same way you would on a instrument recorded in a studio. Cut out the frequencies you don't need. Use hi pass filter and sometimes cutting some high frequencies also helps to push the instruments back a bit. One important thing about dry instruments is that you should always use one 100% wet room reverb as an insert. If you want the instrument to sound orchestral, there can be no dry signal.

So if you are only using stock plugins, I would first make a group for SM Brass and insert EQ for all your instruments(make use of Kontakt's outputs. Then insert two reverbs in the group. First reverb is the room that should be small and 100% wet. Second one is the tail. A nice hall with about 60 to 70 ms pre-delay should do it. The hall should never be 100% wet, adjust it to taste.

-Hannes


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## Nicola74 (Apr 16, 2018)

Hanu_H said:


> The same way you would on a instrument recorded in a studio. Cut out the frequencies you don't need. Use hi pass filter and sometimes cutting some high frequencies also helps to push the instruments back a bit. One important thing about dry instruments is that you should always use one 100% wet room reverb as an insert. If you want the instrument to sound orchestral, there can be no dry signal.
> 
> So if you are only using stock plugins, I would first make a group for SM Brass and insert EQ for all your instruments(make use of Kontakt's outputs. Then insert two reverbs in the group. First reverb is the room that should be small and 100% wet. Second one is the tail. A nice hall with about 60 to 70 ms pre-delay should do it. The hall should never be 100% wet, adjust it to taste.
> 
> -Hannes


Thanks a lot, I will try!


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## Thorgod10 (Apr 16, 2018)

Using the library now, I'd say its a solid 6/10.
Shorts have to be programmed tediously and manually to sound decent(They are DEFINITELY NOT playable), and the legato isn't as automatic as most other libraries.
With said legato, you may find getting certain transitions difficult if not impossible to sound as smooth as legato central libraries without putting in some time.
On the other hand, you get what is probably the best "studio string" sound I have ever heard from a vst.
Effects are high quality and useful.
There also seems to be divisi friendly features that help chords avoid dreaded frequency stacks heard in other libraries, I believe it's the ensemble section which allows you to half/double players based on what you're orchestrating. 

Basically, this library is LASS but with:
+More attention to attacks and release of vibrato based on velocity. Extremely useful for out of box playing.
+Raw "studio" sound that is not overly harsh.
-Less functional Legato out of box.
-Nigh unplayable shorts that will have to be programmed and sequenced to sound real.


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## Straight2Vinyl (Apr 17, 2018)

Do the individual instruments in each section(violins, cellos, basses) have any delay between their start and end times? If not, things sound way too perfectly in sync without any smearing between instruments.
I'm looking forward to the reviews for this one.


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## muziksculp (Apr 17, 2018)

Thorgod10 said:


> Using the library now, I'd say its a solid 6/10.
> Shorts have to be programmed tediously and manually to sound decent(They are DEFINITELY NOT playable), and the legato isn't as automatic as most other libraries.
> 
> -Nigh unplayable shorts that will have to be programmed and sequenced to sound real.



Hmmm.... So, What is it that makes the shorts not playable ? Can you elaborate on this ?


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## Thorgod10 (Apr 17, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Hmmm.... So, What is it that makes the shorts not playable ? Can you elaborate on this ?



You have to constantly switch between shorts or change each velocity to achieve realistic playback, otherwise you'll get some heavy machine-gunning (in the sense of repetitive bow attacks) 
I can send you a sample if you'd like 
(Or post a little shootout here between CSS and CHES with minimally programmed midi)


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## muziksculp (Apr 17, 2018)

Thorgod10 said:


> You have to constantly switch between shorts or change each velocity to achieve realistic playback, otherwise you'll get some heavy machine-gunning (in the sense of repetitive bow attacks)
> I can send you a sample if you'd like
> (Or post a little shootout here between CSS and CHES with minimally programmed midi)



What about Round-Robins ? doesn't this library offer any to avoid the machine-gun issue ? or try using the _Note-Head Designer_ to give variety to the attack portion of the shorts ?


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## Thorgod10 (Apr 17, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> What about Round-Robins ? doesn't this library offer any to avoid the machine-gun issue ?


Yes, but by itself, it's not enough. 
You'll still have to play around quite a bit with changing shorts or changing velocities to get realistic results. 
Meanwhile, In LASS or CSS you have much more room with velocity and will be far more forgiving.

Now, I'd like to say that the RESULTS you can achieve with CHES are fantastic, you just need to put a little more work in.


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## muziksculp (Apr 17, 2018)

Thorgod10 said:


> Yes, but by itself, it's not enough.
> You'll still have to play around quite a bit with changing shorts or changing velocities to get realistic results.
> Meanwhile, In LASS or CSS you have much more room with velocity and will be far more forgiving.
> 
> Now, I'd like to say that the RESULTS you can achieve with CHES are fantastic, you just need to put a little more work in.



Did you try using the _Note-Head Designer_ to give more variety to the attack portion of the shorts ?


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## muziksculp (Apr 17, 2018)

Thorgod10 said:


> Yes, but by itself, it's not enough.
> You'll still have to play around quite a bit with changing shorts or changing velocities to get realistic results.
> Meanwhile, In LASS or CSS you have much more room with velocity and will be far more forgiving.
> 
> Now, I'd like to say that the RESULTS you can achieve with CHES are fantastic, you just need to put a little more work in.



I would guess CHES could produce better results, and more variety, and timbres than both LASS and CSS given the amount of options it offers. Yes, it needs a bit more work, but the results are most likely worth the extra time, and effort. imho. this library needs some time to experiment with, and get to know how to tweak it to achieve great, and very realistic results. It's more complex than other libraries as far as controls, and options it offers.


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## Chris Hein (Apr 24, 2018)

I just finished two new videos of the CH-Ensemble strings.

Articulations:


TT Weber playing Bach's Prelude prelude BWV 867 live:


Hope you enjoy,

Chris Hein


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## richhickey (Apr 24, 2018)

Chris Hein said:


> Articulations:




Sounds great @Chris Hein ! I'd _love_ to hear the articulations demo run through the "small" patches. That's the outstanding question remaining for me with this lib - how present/intimate can it get? E.g. compared to VSL chamber strings. I'd use the bigger groups less frequently.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 6, 2018)

CH Solo Strings Complete is my 'Go-To' at the moment.

The Ensemble Multis in CHSSC have me lusting for his Ensemble Strings package.

Very effective and sound incredible.

I too was concerned about the lack of 2nd violin for a minute.

I would think with both Solo and Ensemble you could create any section you want.

And for $349.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 6, 2018)

Chris Hein said:


> I just finished two new videos of the CH-Ensemble strings.
> 
> Articulations:
> 
> ...




no ambiguity there.


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