# No Labels



## Ashermusic (Dec 19, 2010)

http://nolabels.org/about-us/no-labels-purpose/


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## wst3 (Dec 19, 2010)

It's a wonderful idea... I hope it gets some traction!


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## Jack Weaver (Dec 19, 2010)

No labels, huh?

Ask them what their stand is on abortion. Ask them what candidates they back. That would be the acid test on their 'no labels'. 

Founded by a group of political 'adviser's who are having a hard time finding paying clients. 

Don't fall for their high sounding words. This isn't a grass roots movement - it's simply another political ploy by professional pols. 

.


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## wst3 (Dec 19, 2010)

yup... as I said, it is a wonderful idea, and I hope it gets some traction. I'm not sure that this is the group that will gain traction, but after all the non-stop bickering and posturing I find myself quite frustrated with 'business as usual'.

That doesn't mean that I am ready to give up my own positions on some of the more 'difficult' issues, but it does mean that I'd like to see at least some collaboration in trying to find solutions where there is no middle ground.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 19, 2010)

To me - on the complete opposite side - there are some suspiciously low-sounding words in there:

"Americans deserve a government that makes the necessary choices to rein in runaway deficits, secure Social Security and Medicare, and put our country on a viable, sound path going forward.Americans support a government that works to spur employment and economic opportunity by encouraging free and open markets, tempered by sensible regulation."

That to me is all code for something I'd mark with some very choice labels. To be clear, nobody is in favor of runaway deficits or any of the other bad things in there, but the ways of dealing with those issues are counterintuitive. Just cutting back on public spending is not the answer, and I fear that's what it's saying.

And the "free markets" line means absolutely nothing...or at best it means absolutely nothing.

Jay, your quest to "be reasonable" is hopeless. The problem has nothing to do with labels, it has to do with conservatives.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 19, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Dec 19 said:


> To me - on the complete opposite side - there are some suspiciously low-sounding words in there:
> 
> "Americans deserve a government that makes the necessary choices to rein in runaway deficits, secure Social Security and Medicare, and put our country on a viable, sound path going forward.Americans support a government that works to spur employment and economic opportunity by encouraging free and open markets, tempered by sensible regulation."
> 
> ...



Like it or not, and I know you do not, America is a centrist country. Sometimes it tilts a little left, sometimes a little right but in the end if anything is going to get done, both sides have to accept the fact that to get some things they want they will have to give on some other things they may not like.

We all do this everyday in the real world. It is time for politics to reflect that.


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## wst3 (Dec 19, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Sun Dec 19 said:


> but in the end if anything is going to get done, both sides have to accept the fact that to get some things they want they will have to give on some other things they may not like.
> 
> We all do this everyday in the real world. It is time for politics to reflect that.



Well said!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 19, 2010)

Well said but wrongly said. Our politics today are swinging between slightly right and insanely right. Your idea of slightly to the left is not slightly to the left at all.

Look at the healthcare debate, for example. The Democrats *started off* to the right (abandoning single-payer) and waited for the Republicans to compromise. All that happened is that they moved from very right to insanely right. Now they want to reverse the law that's to the right of what they themselves advocated!

These f-ers won't even ratify START. Mitch McConnell is the AH of the world. John Boner is the the other side.

As I said, the problem with our government is conservatism.

No, it's even worse than that: hypocritical conservatives. They don't care at all about the good of the people they're supposed to be fighting for; it's all scorched earth to them.

That's why I foam at the mouth every time I start talking about them. These people SUCK.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 19, 2010)

We used to have a debate between two sides that identified the same problems and simply had different opinions about how to solve them. Yeah there were nuts on either side, but they weren't the mainstream. Both sides had some intellectual backing behind their ideas.

Not today.


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## wst3 (Dec 19, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Dec 19 said:


> We used to have a debate between two sides that identified the same problems and simply had different opinions about how to solve them. Yeah there were nuts on either side, but they weren't the mainstream. Both sides had some intellectual backing behind their ideas.
> 
> Not today.



Well there's one place where you and I are in 100% agreement...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 19, 2010)

Meanwhile it's just disgusting that DREAM didn't pass. A national disgrace.


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## Mike Connelly (Dec 20, 2010)

I guess that's all nice and all, but I couldn't find any hint of what they actually support on their website. The whole group hug thing makes for a nice T shirt or bumper sticker but I don't see what specifically these guys hope to accomplish or how they intend to do it.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 20, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Mon Dec 20 said:


> I guess that's all nice and all, but I couldn't find any hint of what they actually support on their website. The whole group hug thing makes for a nice T shirt or bumper sticker but I don't see what specifically these guys hope to accomplish or how they intend to do it.



You did not spend enough time there.

http://nolabels.org/thinking-no-labels/no-labels-approach/ (http://nolabels.org/thinking-no-labels/ ... -approach/)

Anyway, they are not advocating specific positions. They will frequently disagree. What they are advocating for is a respectful debate, putting country ahead of party when the 2 conflict (and they do for both parties at times) and an end to the attitude that everyone who is disagrees with you is poorly motivated or stupid. Obviously they will never win over the right and left wing wackos but fortunately, that is not who most of the U.S is, and generally the outcome of the presidential election is decided by the independents.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 20, 2010)

Jay. No. No.

The problem is NOT that people who disagree are poorly motivated or stupid. It's that the people in the Republican party of today are. Disagreeing with them and being outraged is entirely appropriate, because pretty much everything they advocate totally sucks! I gave you three examples in this thread!

What you're saying would make sense if they had a point. They really don't today! It's painfully obvious that all they care about is regaining power; if the country suffers so they can do that, who cares.

Also, Bill Maher pointed out in so many words that independent voters are probably a pretty low common denominator. They are the ones who swing back and forth as the economy rises and falls, not the ones who are the most informed.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 20, 2010)

By the way, I don't agree with Ron Paul most of the time - in fact his understanding of economics leaves a lot be desired - but he's an example of a conservative who deserves to be heard and debated with respectfully. He has principles that have some intellectual backing behind them, and there's value in having his point of view be part of the debate.

That's totally different from the complete jackasses at the top of the Republican party, or stupid Sarah Palin, etc. etc. etc. Those are people who just say ridiculous things all day long because they want power.

You know how you always say you put the opinions of accomplished musicians way ahead of those of internet loudmouths who like to put things down?

This is exactly the same principle.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 20, 2010)

Well, I'd say that strict libertarians are a subcategory. But where in the government are Republicans who haven't been pulled way over to the insane right?

By coincidence I just read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/20/opini ... ml?_r=1&hp


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## Ashermusic (Dec 20, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Dec 20 said:


> Well, I'd say that strict libertarians are a subcategory. But where in the government are Republicans who haven't been pulled way over to the insane right?
> 
> By coincidence I just read this:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/20/opini ... ml?_r=1&hp



Well, how about the 6 who voted to repeal DADT for a start?

And I like Krugman, but good lord, he is to the left of you even.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 20, 2010)

I'm certainly not saying that all Democrats are good, just that the problem is the Republicans. They vote as a bloc almost always.

Meanwhile just saying Krugman is left of even me means nothing. What is he saying that you disagree with and why?

By the way, his positions - and his economic outlook - are liberal but perfectly moderate. I wouldn't call him a social democrat, which is about as far left as anyone goes in this country. His basic economic view is that he believes in monetary policy (i.e. what the Fed does to moderate the economy with an inflation target by controlling interest rates) until we get where we are now. And where we are now is a "zero bound" situation in which the interest rates would have to be negative to keep the economy going. So at this stage we need fiscal policy - government spending to stimulate it.

That's not good lord left, that's just moderate left. And he's absolutely right that what Obama has done by being "moderate" and selling inadequate policy as the answer is selling failed Republicanism and abandoning all hope.

I said exactly the same thing in my thread about Obama having lost my support - and for that exact reason.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 20, 2010)

Oh, you're saying that six Republicans voted to repeal DADT. Okay, so that's a rare example, and only 6 out of 41 are on the right side of the issue.

Meanwhile your asking about that for a START is somehow appropriate.


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## JonFairhurst (Dec 20, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Mon Dec 20 said:


> Ron Paul is not a Conservative, he is a Libertarian. There are important distinctions.



Your advocacy of "no labels" didn't last long, did it?


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## Ashermusic (Dec 20, 2010)

JonFairhurst @ Mon Dec 20 said:


> Ashermusic @ Mon Dec 20 said:
> 
> 
> > Ron Paul is not a Conservative, he is a Libertarian. There are important distinctions.
> ...



I am just correcting a mislabel. 

And I know you know you are being a little too literal. No Labels means that you do not automatically reject positions or refuse to make compromises because of where people sit on the ideological spectrum.

Ted Kennedy, who was always labelled a Liberal, had no problem reaching compromises with guys like Orren Hatch, who was labelled a Conservative. They put what they believed to be the good of the country ahead of the ideology and found compromises.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 20, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Dec 20 said:


> Oh, you're saying that six Republicans voted to repeal DADT. Okay, so that's a rare example, and only 6 out of 41 are on the right side of the issue.
> 
> Meanwhile your asking about that for a START is somehow appropriate.



Yes and a lot of Republicans support START.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... acket.html


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 20, 2010)

Two filthy words (when put together):

Mitch McConnell.


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## chimuelo (Dec 21, 2010)

Why even bother rushing something where the elected officials from the USA wont be in office, and the Rusky's will have all new guys very soon.
Let the new folks stumble over each other getting their feet wet.

IMHO I base a politicans worth according to what skills he shows as a diplomat or how he represents his consituents. And his voting record.
Whatever they say is usually a script from someone else, or a lie to create further excuses for their lack of experience and skill. It seems we are past the blame it on Bush re runs finally.

Keep in mind that NKorea wont even see anyone from Congress or the Obama Administration, they regress to Clintonites, since they actually have held a position somewhere and don't flip flop all over the place until the polls say STOP........

I can't imagine having Timothy Geitner or Anthony Weiner hanging with Putin and the Russian Mob ( I mean Parliament ).

Mitch McConnell wishes people would mistake him for Steve Forbes.........


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## Ashermusic (Dec 22, 2010)

http://www.examiner.com/common-ground-i ... ppens-next


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