# More composer/director communication issues....



## TheWillardofOZ (Aug 31, 2014)

A little backstory:

I am working on a film where I am the sole composer. It is a rock opera, so I wrote him an overture with all the themes and we've been basing the rest of the film off of those themes and styles. I made my case for a few live musicians and was able to work them into the budget. 

Jump to last night: 

The director started emailing musicians he had seen on youtube and found a violinist he really likes. This violinist also writes music, so the director asked him to write underscore for the film and base his score off of my themes. I was not notified of the addition of another composer prior to this conversation. He also will not allow me to communicate with this person. 

Now, I'm all for collaboration, and another composer with background on an instrument I don't play would certainly help. My problem was with how the situation was handled. I told the director that I was a bit offended that he would add a new composer at the last minute without talking with me about it. Considering the nature of a musical and how I intend for the themes to be utilized, it also worries me that another composer that I am not in communication with will make the soundtrack sound disjointed.

The director is now furious with me (his exact wording) for being so selfish with the music I had written and that I am completely unprofessional (...also his exact wording). This is one of my first paying gigs and I'm not completely sure if I should be upset or not at this point. Is it normal for directors to do things like this? I don't think he should be making such changes to how and by whom the score will be written without at least talking with me about it first.


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## mverta (Aug 31, 2014)

I'm curious what your contract stipulates as to the scope of services you're being hired for.

Also, sure there are people like this. I would personally instantly take him off my client list. He either has no idea what he wants, or no actual awareness of or respect for what you do. Also, speaking as a director, I'd have to say that if he didn't anticipate your reaction, and have the diplomatic skills to handle it, then he isn't much of a director, either, because that's 90% of what we do. And by the way, he's being unprofessional.

_Mike


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## SDCP (Aug 31, 2014)

The director is being a jerk. But you will, no doubt, learn an important lesson in ownership. If you agreed beforehand that you own the copyright and publishing, then you can withdraw your music if you're not happy with the jerk. If he owns your themes, he can do whatever he wants. *Get it in writing before you write a note.
*
BTW If you DO own the themes, then tell him to get lost. He's obviously an amateur.


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## RiffWraith (Aug 31, 2014)

Don't disagree with what Mike said. But....

_I was not notified of the addition of another composer prior to this conversation. _

That's a dick move, regardless of how you look at it.

_He also will not allow me to communicate with this person. _

Will he allow you to call your mom to say hi once in a while? Another retarded move.

_I told the director that I was a bit offended that he would add a new composer at the last minute without talking with me about it. _

I wouldn't have done that. I am, of course, not sure exactly what you said, but that's not the right way to handle the situation.

_...it also worries me that another composer that I am not in communication with will make the soundtrack sound disjointed. _

Yeah, I'd be worried about that as well. _However.. _(read on)

_The director is now furious with me (his exact wording) for being so selfish with the music I had written ...._

I wouldn't have said/done that, if I were the dir. But, some people are like that. The Q is - is this a WFH, where the music goes to and is now owned by the film? If yes, he has every right to do what he wants with the music. It's his film, and he hired you to write the music for the film - according to his needs and wants. That means you, as the hired gun, go along with whatever it is he wants to do, whether you like it or not. He could show a little more tact, and not be a tool, but he does have the right to get another composer in on the action if he wants. And if that screws up your themes and other prior work - then that's what happens. It's his film - not your score.

If this is not a WFH where you retain ownership, then maybe you want to do what SDCP suggested, and walk.

_ Is it normal for directors to do things like this?_

Bigger, more experienced ones, not really. Smaller, inexperienced ones - maybe moreso. The bigger experienced dirs. tend to know what they want and tend to know how to properly handle certain situations. The smaller inexperienced ones are still learning these things.

Cheers.


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## Dean (Aug 31, 2014)

Yeah,the director is the one who is being unprofessional not you!Have you signed anything yet? if not,you still own the music entirely.I would tell the director that you need to be in control of the overall score and that other additional composers answer to you and you ultimately answer to the director,basically 'shit rolls down hill,not up'. I understand if you really need the gig and money but he may respect you more for sticking to your guns than just going along and more importantly you will respect yourself more too! 

Edit: In fact this should be a deal breaker unless you've signed away your rights already and really,really need this gig walk away!D


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## rgames (Aug 31, 2014)

At this point I'd say it all comes down to the money. The director is, at best, an idiot and, at worst, a prick. Neither is worth working for unless the money is good.

In technical terms, you need to calculate the Sh!t-to-Dollar Ratio and determine if it's low enough to keep going.

rgames


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## JohnG (Aug 31, 2014)

This is totally abusive. I would pull out of the project and take my music with me.


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## MichaelL (Aug 31, 2014)

JohnG @ Sun Aug 31 said:


> This is totally abusive. I would pull out of the project and take my music with me.





+1 

Total bush league behavior by the director. Surfing youtube...what next Craig's list?


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## Jimbo 88 (Aug 31, 2014)

I'm not sure if I'm always in agreement with RiffWraith, but I sure am here. Spot on.

Welcome to the world of film making. This is how some people operate.

I would suggest taking all the emotion out of the business side of things. Too many knuckleheads.

Call a meeting with all parties and straighten things out. You should be in communication with the other guy. Tell the the director you just want what is best for the project. Get thru the job and then move on. All the wiser for the wear.

Good luck.


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## José Herring (Aug 31, 2014)

Worst situation I've heard of. Sounds like he's fired you without the consideration of saying you're fired.


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## TheWillardofOZ (Aug 31, 2014)

> I told the director that I was a bit offended that he would add a new composer at the last minute without talking with me about it.
> 
> I wouldn't have done that. I am, of course, not sure exactly what you said, but that's not the right way to handle the situation.



I did use the word offended, and, in retrospect, shouldn't have used such aggressive language. 

Would you mind explaining how you might handle the situation? (Side note: It is part of the deal that I will retain copyright of the music)

Also, I'm really torn as to whether or not I should continue the project. A lot of you have made very valid points for bailing on the film. I love the script, and the music he wants is in the realm of styles that I'm very passionate about. This film has inspired some of my best work and I'd hate to give up on it. The more I interact with the director, though, the more I get a very shady feeling about the entire situation.

Thank you all for your input! It's a wonderful feeling to be a part of such a supportive community! o-[][]-o


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## nikolas (Aug 31, 2014)

Apart from the issue I'll mention below the director sounds like an arse, and certainly I'd also take my music with me and get away asap!

Just keep in mind (my own personal opinion), that getting offended or insulted in any kind of a professional project is not the best of ideas. This is a business and I don't think there's any room for such feelings out in the open. You may very well feel awful about something, insulted, offended and what not, but nobody else in this gig needs to know.

EDIT: hehe... one minute apart!


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## davidgary73 (Aug 31, 2014)

@TheWillardofOZ

I've just finished scoring a comedian movie and guess what, we have 3 other composers doing the same music for this film just because we have 15 days to complete the whole score. I already knew that this comedy movie music is gonna sound all over the place, disjointed and the music director confirmed it hahaha. 

Worst part is, the music director told me that one of the music cues i did was cut to another scene just because it fits the beginning of the scene and then jointed into the next potion of scene of my music cue. I was very very upset but you know what, i let it pass. Why? Because that what the "movie director" wants and at the end of the day, i earn his money and if any one asked me why the music is so badly cut, i'll just point the finger to the movie director for bad music sense. 

As you said this is your first paying gig. In my humble opinion, my suggestion is to bite the bullet and finish up your music cues. Earn his money, get your name out there and you will have more jobs coming in. 

But then again, it's up to you to pull out if you really feel that you need to.


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## Simon Ravn (Sep 1, 2014)

I have experienced quite a few weird and disturbing stuff going on between me, the director, the producer, the editors etc. that I have gotten used to it, and just accept that this is the way it is gonna be if I want to work in this business (the film one). 

I also have good and inspiring experiences - it really all depends on how the director and producer works and how comfortable and strongly they feel about their vision (if they have one). Usually, as pointed out by others already, the bad communication is spawned by the director/producer being insecure and not really knowing what they want/expect from you - and just as importantly, not being able to communicate it (which there can be a number of reasons for).

Basically, I have just decided to live with it - sometimes you end up with an "artistically embarrassing result", but the money is good, sometimes it is the opposite. So you have to decide how much you do this for the art and how much you do it for the business, and for staying in the business. 

Remember, even bad experiences can lead to good experiences later in your carreer - don't underestimate the effect your reputation can have upon getting gigs later on. If you get a reputation (possibly wrongfully) of being difficult to work with, it may very well affect whether or not you will have a carreer at all in the future.


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## Tatu (Sep 1, 2014)

He's probably just paying either one of you significantly less (or more) and doesn't want you to accidentally discuss about it. Getting offended is a great way to avoid any further discussion about getting in touch with the other guy. 8) 

What ever the reason, a dick move from him.

I think that you did the right thing, when you expressed your concern about another composer; after all, you were hired first and the music is your responsibility.


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## MichaelL (Sep 1, 2014)

Jimbo 88 @ Sun Aug 31 said:


> Welcome to the world of film making. This is how some people operate.




Maybe the new world of film making. I've worked with many directors / producers over the years. 

The closest that I came to that kind of situation was where the director hired me and the producer had a friend that he wanted to hire. We both did the music in vastly different styles, because the director and the producer couldn't agree on what was appropriate. 

Do you mind my asking...is this a serious production that will see the light of day, i.e., well funded by a studio or production company, or is this a guy "making a film?"
Are you getting paid well, or are you getting "exposure?"


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## KEnK (Sep 1, 2014)

I just want to add I had a situation that was almost identical to this one.
My choice was to not express what I felt about it and just proceed.

So I'm really happy to see virtually all my fellow composers
agree that this guy is both unprofessional and a jerk.

2 or 3 years after my director from hell experience, I got a call from his producer.
They needed a 30 sec piece for a commercial. The deadline was a month away.
Later that day the director from hell called saying he wanted something in 8 hours to play for his client. 
Did it and it was rejected. He said it was "like a needle drop". (It wasn't)
Then he proceeded to call me throughout the day w/ increasingly ridiculous "musical" ideas.
Essentially wanting a separate piece for each edit- 7 in all.
This was to be done in 24 hours.
Did exactly what he asked in time.
Also rejected.

I was paid about 1/8th of the agreed fee for my time.
Needless to say I won't bother w/ this guy should he ever call again.

Point is, like some have mentioned, I think you should walk.
This guy has no respect for you or your music, or even music itself.
It won't get better.

k


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## JohnG (Sep 1, 2014)

KEnK @ 1st September 2014 said:


> Point is, like some have mentioned, I think you should walk.
> This guy has no respect for you or your music, or even music itself.
> It won't get better.
> 
> k



I agree with this 100%. 

I also disagree with those who say you have to be diplomatic no matter what. This behaviour is outrageous and there is no upside to condoning it or grinning and bowing when people act like this. "Thank you sir, and may I have another" is just not on sometimes.

I don't swear and curse or anything, but calling it what it is -- a violation of the normal creative spirit, an abrogation of implied contractual obligations, and just plain arrogance and rudeness -- that's what it is and that's what I would tell them.

Not worth preserving the relationship.


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## nikolas (Sep 1, 2014)

JohnG @ Mon Sep 01 said:


> KEnK @ 1st September 2014 said:
> 
> 
> > I also disagree with those who say you have to be diplomatic no matter what. This behaviour is outrageous and there is no upside to condoning it or grinning and bowing when people act like this. "Thank you sir, and may I have another" is just not on sometimes.
> ...


Just in case I got misundetstood.

What I was talking about is not about being diplomatic and whatnot, but letting the other know how YOU feel. 

It's two completely different things. Feeling are reserved for friends, not bastards! :(


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## wladi (Sep 1, 2014)

Simple advice: Walk (run) away from this project.


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