# Sites similar to 'Crucial Music' that specialise in orchestral/cinematic music?



## JTJohnson (Apr 28, 2017)

I'm reaching out to try and broaden my knowledge of the commercial side of composing. It wasn't that long ago that i even found out what a 'PRO' was or about sites such Crucial Music that place your music for you. I signed up and got a track accepted but after having a long chat with their very friendly staff i quickly learned that instrumental orchestral music was not their favourite genre. 

So are there websites out there that are more welcoming of orchestral instrumentals? Thank you for educating me VI people, much appreciated.


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## Desire Inspires (Apr 28, 2017)

Try all of the libraries at this link: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12423080-post8.html

I don't know which ones work best for instrumental orchestral music. 

But if you put in the work and listen to the music at each library, you should be able to find a library that would work best for what you already make. It is a long journey that takes a lot of trial and error. 

It will take years to find the right place for your music. But you have to start somewhere. We are all on a journey. One step at a time. Patience and persistence!


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## GtrString (Apr 29, 2017)

Crucial doesnt really specialize in orchestral music, you need to listen to the music in the libraries and pitch accordingly.

Also see what placements they have gotten recently, that may be where they are focusing right now.


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## Jaap (Apr 29, 2017)

Research is a big part of the job. The link Desire Inspires gave is a great start to do the research. Also if you are serious about setting your first steps into the tough world of production music check out sites like musiclibraryreport and Emmetts Cook e-book the Business of Music Licensing. That should give you a start about how this world is working  Good luck!


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## doctornine (Apr 30, 2017)

Folks, it's not rocket science. Go sit through several hours of TV and take notice of what you hear. Thats the music that is getting used and making it's creators money. Take notice of the styles, the sounds and make notes. Programming for different times of day uses different kinds of music. What fits day time tv isn't going to fit primetime drama or reality.
You want to pass the exam, then do the study.

So no, sorry to say, old style Vangelis is not going to get you anywhere.


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## Desire Inspires (Apr 30, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> But I'd like to do more and different stuff. Perhaps orchestral to practice my chops, but I'm also big into electronic/hybrid/underscore stuff like that. I just don't know where to start. That list of libraries is huge. I'd love to have some kind of brief and write tracks to that but I don't have any and it seems that...I don't know, it's hard. There are too many options. What is the answer? Just write the best music that comes naturally to me? That's probably something like old Vangelis music. But that is not really in vogue anymore.



A thing that I do is to contact music libraries and ask them if they have briefs that I can write to. That way I can choose to make music for the briefs that already fit the styles I make. It isn't hard to do. You just have to call or send out emails and ask what the libraries need. Remember, you are working together to provide music for clients.


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## mwarsell (Apr 30, 2017)

Desire Inspires said:


> A thing that I do is to contact music libraries and ask them if they have briefs that I can write to. That way I can choose to make music for the briefs that already fit the styles I make. It isn't hard to do. You just have to call or send out emails and ask what the libraries need. Remember, you are working together to provide music for clients.



Do you mean contacting music libs as an outsider for briefs or when you're in?


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## Jaap (May 1, 2017)

Yes that list is indeed huge and it is a huge industry and not as easy as everyone thinks to make good solid money. You have to have a certain mindset to produce the music that is needed and it has little to do with art. It is an anonymous business and you supply more often then not anonymous sounding music. Supply and demand. Nobody will force you to do these things, but if you want to dive in this industry and take it serious, then create that mindset for yourself, do the research, scout all those libraries, send out gazillion mails or make calls, write even more pieces, learn what structures are needed, what styles work and when you all learned that you probably have had to change everything already again since everything keeps changing. You can see production music as the IKEA of the music business.
Somebody on another forum said "damn this almost looks like work!" Well it is bloody hard work 

And another thing: don't get attached to the work you create for production music. Create and produce it, put it in the library(ies) and take emotional distance from it and move on. Some good pieces will never get licensed and will gather dust for decades. If you are emotionally attached to the work you do, then this industry is not for you.
And if you want to write music that reflects you and for the sake of creating music, just buy a lotery ticket and pray you win and write happily ever after


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## dannymc (May 1, 2017)

> Do you mean contacting music libs as an outsider for briefs or when you're in?



its probably both. the libraries out there that you will try to reach out to will do things in different ways. some might take a listen to your material and feel its not a fit for something they are working on right now but will put you on their email list for briefs in the future rather than signing you to their label. others on the other hand will want you to sign a few tracks prove yourself as an artist and then you might start getting sent briefs. but seriously use Desires list above and listen to what each library is doing. there is a library out there for pretty much every style so you might find a perfect fit for your music.

but just because a library is interested in your music and specializes in the genre you write doesn't necessarily mean you should sign your tracks to them. the criteria i tend to use is: are they a well known good rep library? do they seem to have good contacts/connections in the business? do they have a good track record of getting placements? (recent placements being even more important) and you should always read the exclusive contract (properly).

Danny


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## doctornine (May 1, 2017)

I was going to write a long rambling post, but Jaap pretty much hit the nail on the head.

It's *hard* work. But do it right and you can make a very healthy living


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## doctornine (May 2, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> If I start writing music to, say, reality TV, I'm not sure I want to associate my name with that music. "oh that guy...who writes shit for reality shows?"
> 
> Because the music, if it sells, will inevitably be bland, uninteresting and stale. Because that is what kind of music gets placed.



If thats your attitude, then you're in the wrong business clearly. Library isn't for you.


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## Tatu (May 2, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Should one separate, I mean having for example two different web sites, for the artist and the production music writer? If I start writing music to, say, reality TV, I'm not sure I want to associate my name with that music. "oh that guy...who writes shit for reality shows?"


One word:

pseu·do·nym
ˈso͞odnim/
_noun_
noun: *pseudonym*; plural noun: *pseudonyms*

a fictitious name, especially one used by an author.
synonyms: pen name, nom de plume, assumed name, false name, alias, professional name, sobriquet, stage name, nom de guerre
"Geisel was best known by the pseudonym 'Dr. Seuss'"


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## mwarsell (May 2, 2017)

Tatu said:


> One word:
> 
> pseu·do·nym
> ˈso͞odnim/
> ...


Yes, I've had one for 10 years. Released two albums under it. But I hate using it. Use your own name, says Mika Verta.


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## dannymc (May 2, 2017)

> Because the music, if it sells, will inevitably be bland, uninteresting and stale. Because that is what kind of music gets placed.



what are you basing that on? all kinds of styles and genres gets placed these days for all kinds of purposes and requirements in media. i think you're taking a very narrow view on the library world. its not all for ukulele based corporate videos. i wouldn't advise composing a music style you hate, how in gods name is that suppose to keep you motivated? 

Danny


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## Desire Inspires (May 2, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Do you mean contacting music libs as an outsider for briefs or when you're in?



As an outsider. You ask for work and see if they are accepting new composers. If so, you get sent briefs and work to write to the briefs that play to your strengths!


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## mac (May 2, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Because the music, if it sells, will inevitably be bland, uninteresting and stale. Because that is what kind of music gets placed.



Only if you write bland, uninteresting, stale music?  There's plenty of amazing library music out there that's none of those things.


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## Desire Inspires (May 2, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Because the music, if it sells, will inevitably be bland, uninteresting and stale. Because that is what kind of music gets placed.
> 
> I don't think they appreciate fugal writing or a string quartet.


 
To some extent, I agree.

There just isn't a lot of appreciation for experimental music in a lot of commercial efforts. 

Companies only want "experimental" music once it becomes mainstream. Trap music and dubstep was not getting used in TV shows and commercials until artists started getting that music placed on the charts. Then all the libraries started asking for that music.

Everybody today is asking for Future Bass and Melodic Bass. Why because that is what is getting spins on radio. Same thing with ukulele music. It is trendy for now, so companies want to use that music in ads and TV shows.

String quartets will start getting placed once they become trendy.

It is what it is.


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## dannymc (May 2, 2017)

> I think with library music it is just about supply and demand: If they want happy ukulele, then why not write that? I much rather write that and make a sell than writing in a style that is more 'me' but watching the tracks go nowhere. If the idea is to make some money. If I can't have the best of both worlds of writing what I love and see it sell.



but the better libraries wont do that. the better ones who are a bit more than just massive depositcatalogues of 100's of thousands of tracks will get to know the composers on their books a little and what their strengths are when it comes to writing. so the next time a brief comes in for x style music, they will say to themselves "this brief perfect for mwarsell and these other 15 composers and only send the brief to them". 

yeah i'm sure it is good exercise to write in genres you are not that interested in but i'd much prefer to write for the libraries who ask me to write in the genres i enjoy. 

Danny


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## Desire Inspires (May 2, 2017)

dannymc said:


> but the better libraries wont do that. the better ones who are a bit more than just massive depositcatalogues of 100's of thousands of tracks will get to know the composers on their books a little and what their strengths are when it comes to writing. so the next time a brief comes in for x style music, they will say to themselves "this brief perfect for mwarsell and these other 15 composers and only send the brief to them".
> 
> yeah i'm sure it is good exercise to write in genres you are not that interested in but i'd much prefer to write for the libraries who ask me to write in the genres i enjoy.
> 
> Danny



Yes, those libraries exist. But they are not the majority of libraries out there. I work with both kinds of libraries: massive deposit catalogs and those that work with a small group of composers for more bespoke music. 

Whatever feels good or pays is fair game.


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## doctornine (May 2, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Maybe I was still talking about music in reality tv. What, exactly, are the musical merits of Auction Kings or Toddlers & Tiaras? That we are leaving for posterity?



Jesus wept. It's just the same old, "my music has more integrity than your music". After all, Pink Floyd.... why does it have to be so loud ?


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## mwarsell (May 2, 2017)

doctornine said:


> Jesus wept. It's just the same old, "my music has more integrity than your music". After all, Pink Floyd.... why does it have to be so loud ?


Well...I should probably take that comment back. If the music in the above-mentioned shows *serves its purpose*, then it is appropriate and a good fit. I shouldn't judge it otherwise. The good/bad music -dichotomy should be buried - either the music serves its purpose or it doesn't.


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## doctornine (May 3, 2017)

Well hey, Toddlers and Tiaras is a pretty regular show on my PRS


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## mwarsell (May 3, 2017)

Sorry OP, no, I don't know other libs like Crucial. :-/


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## Cruciform (May 9, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Well...I should probably take that comment back. If the music in the above-mentioned shows *serves its purpose*, then it is appropriate and a good fit. I shouldn't judge it otherwise. The good/bad music -dichotomy should be buried - either the music serves its purpose or it doesn't.



Check out some quality tv library work like the Gothic Storm sister labels. I forget the label names offhand but library music can serve its purpose and be beautiful. Another way to make decent bucks is to write promo music for libs that specialise in it such as Megatrax and Ignite (Warner/Chappell). Or collaborate with some vocalists and write some beautiful songs for Crucial. Or do some brilliant, beautiful, unique cover songs for trailers and then drop me a line


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## robgb (May 10, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Use your own name, says Mika Verta.


Heh. Mike Verta. That's a phony name if I ever heard one...


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## StevenOBrien (May 12, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> Maybe I was still talking about music in reality tv. What, exactly, are the musical merits of Auction Kings or Toddlers & Tiaras? That we are leaving for posterity?


Mozart wrote a lot of throwaway divertimenti, serenades, canons, symphonies etc. for use as background music. (That was the majority of his output, actually)

This is essentially 18th century library music: 

You shouldn't be thinking about how the form limits you, and how much better you'd be able to write if only you had a film to score, etc. etc. you should be thinking about how you can do a better job with what you have and make the form your own.

If you think music for reality TV sounds cheap, ask why it sounds cheap to you. Find a way to write using the same limitations in a way that doesn't sound cheap. Find ways to make the music more interesting and nuanced, while still being bound to the necessary limitations.

There was a time when film music was considered cheap, worthless crap. Generic pieces that were thrown together, mangled to fit the picture, and given to an underpaid pianist to play in a cinema on an out-of-tune upright. No composer would want to be caught dead writing for that, but years passed, foresightful composers came along and turned it into a great art form, and now every composer's ultimate goal is to write music for film. You can do the same for reality TV, it's a blank canvas. Go for it.


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## jacobthestupendous (May 17, 2017)

A bit off topic, but I've just had read through this thread for the first time, and it seems like lots of now nonexistent posts are being replied to. Is this because people have gone back and deleted their posts, or did something go amiss with the server transition?


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## mwarsell (May 19, 2017)

jacobthestupendous said:


> A bit off topic, but I've just had read through this thread for the first time, and it seems like lots of now nonexistent posts are being replied to. Is this because people have gone back and deleted their posts, or did something go amiss with the server transition?


I wanted to delete some of my posts. They were not mature enough. I'm wiser now.


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