# My next synth - Serum, Hive or Dune 2?



## Arbee

I already own Omnisphere and Zebra and looking for something else to complement these. Not sure how to put this into words but I'm looking for fat, clean, in your face sounds (especially bass) that are not necessarily retro. I was swaying towards Hive but something appealing has caught my ear in the demos I've heard of Serum (big, clean, present). Dune 2 sounds OK but perhaps more of a general workhorse? While I adore Omni and Zebra I find the complexity of their timbres sometimes overwhelming and competing too much with other instruments, if that makes any sense whatsoever. So looking for contrast, not more of the same. Any thoughts?


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## synthpunk

I like and use the sequences in Dune 2 sometimes

Hive is good at the EDM, Supersaw, Sylenth type sound. It's the U-he synth I use the least. Take a quick listen to Bazille. It continually blows my mind.

Serum is very good for what you're looking for and a lot more once you get past the EDM label it has. 

May also be worth taking a look at reaktor / monark and the new U-he re Pro - 1. Both are bass monsters and they will also need a good compressor like in 1176 to help control transients.


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## Parsifal666

Out of the ones mentioned, Serum. But if you want an instantaneous, all around winner, get Diva.


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## nordicguy

Some synths that may worth a look at.
Repro 1, U-he again.
Talking about bass?
One that may be less known but that I really really like is called Arcsyn.
http://www.spcplugins.com/arcsyn.
Within the workhorse category there's already a thread about Avenger (Vengeance Audio) that was launched just recently.
V'got a bit of bugs but devs are truely on the case.
It's really powerful.
An other one witch is competing with Avenger and also appeared recently is called Rapid (Parawave), was just port to Mac (was Windows only less than one week ago).
BTW, Serum + Hive are amazing too!
Hope this help.


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## Arbee

Thanks guys, I do hear that Serum is fairly heavy on CPU but (and I may be hearing things of course) there is something quite pristine, transparent and "in the face" about Serum that jumps out at me.


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## kurtvanzo

I would go for Serum, just demo it first to make sure the sounds are what you are looking for, there are a few sound packs for it out there as well.
https://www.xferrecords.com/products/serum
Also demo Repro 1 before you buy, both have very unique and smile inducing tones that won't crowd your mix.
https://www.u-he.com/cms/repro-1
Both are not too bad on a modern CPU, but good to check first with the demos.


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## Parsifal666

Arbee said:


> Thanks guys, I do hear that Serum is fairly heavy on CPU but (and I may be hearing things of course) there is something quite pristine, transparent and "in the face" about Serum that jumps out at me.



Serum isn't anywhere near as heavy on CPU as it used to be, there are regular updates. I can't help but ask if you really need another expensive synth when you have two Swiss Army Knives that (as long as you study them thoroughly), can pretty much accommodate your every synth need? I have had every synth stated above, and I sold most of them, because I mastered Zebra/HZ. Perhaps choose to learn at least one of the synths you already know, through and through, and THEN consider spending more money. You have all you need. Really.


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## kurtvanzo

I agree with you about the two swiss army knives, but I also know the feeling of doing a few client projects and realizing I need more unique sounds I can grab quickly (seems someone here even loved diving into Spitfire Edna a while back  ). So really depends on the timing/ demands. Looking at sound packs for Omni or Zebra (especially from the unfinished) is another way to go for more inspiration.
http://www.theunfinished.co.uk/shop/
There's also a 30-50% off sale there now to Jan 2nd, 2017. Code : Littledrummerboy


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## davidgary73

Check out Spire as well @ http://www.reveal-sound.com

I use it in tandem with Zebra.


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## Arbee

Parsifal666 said:


> Serum isn't anywhere near as heavy on CPU as it used to be, there are regular updates. I can't help but ask if you really need another expensive synth when you have two Swiss Army Knives that (as long as you study them thoroughly), can pretty much accommodate your every synth need? I have had every synth stated above, and I sold most of them, because I mastered Zebra/HZ. Perhaps choose to learn at least one of the synths you already know, through and through, and THEN consider spending more money. You have all you need. Really.


Thanks, I know what you mean. Not unlike sample libraries, each synth has its own sonic characteristics and I sense my swiss army knife approach to date needs some refinement. I'm one of those lucky souls who cut their teeth on Moogs, Prophets, OBXAs and D-50s (and while working with real orchestras!), so I'm reasonably comfortable in the space.


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## synthpunk

Good to see Arcsyn getting more and more recognition it's really underrated but probably not my first choice for this users parameters he gave. It has all the matrix 12 / xpander filters.

Serum is very high fI sounding I think that's what you're hearing and one of the qualities I also like very much.

You can also now pay for serum on the Splice installment plan for $9.99 a month which makes it even more attractive option


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## Parsifal666

The only thing about Serum I don't like are the filters, it can be really hard to get that punchy, low end presence of synths like Zebra adn XILS IV. Still, if you're looking for a more vanilla, kind of midrangey synth with extraordinary modulation capabilities, Serum is perfect.


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## Chandler

Out of those I would recommend serum. Others you might want to check out are MPowersynth(very clean), Harmor (completely different from Omni and Zebra) or wait for Synthmaster One.

Synthmaster One is supposed to be released in about a month or 2 and it features a simpler GUI than Synthmaster and wavetable support. Check the demos from SM and if you like them I'd wait for SM1.


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## Arbee

synthpunk said:


> Serum is very high fI sounding I think that's what you're hearing and one of the qualities I also like very much.


Yes, I think that's it. While I've heard Serum called "too pristine" it may be that very quality I'm looking for at the moment.

Thanks everyone, I looked at all the synths mentioned here and discovered a few gems I was unaware of.


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## Parsifal666

Chandler said:


> Harmor (completely different from Omni and Zebra)



Harmor is excellent, and you're right it's definitely unique. I should also mention Electra, which is capable of importing wav (PCM) files and sounds outstanding imo.


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## babylonwaves

Parsifal666 said:


> The only thing about Serum I don't like are the filters, it can be really hard to get that punchy, low end presence of synths like Zebra adn XILS IV. Still, if you're looking for a more vanilla, kind of midrangey synth with extraordinary modulation capabilities, Serum is perfect.



funny how different perceptions can be. serum, to me, is a bottomless abyss and if I need punchy basses, i usually resort to it first. note that i don't use their stock presets a lot.


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## Parsifal666

babylonwaves said:


> funny how different perceptions can be. serum, to me, is a bottomless abyss and if I need punchy basses, i usually resort to it first. note that i don't use their stock presets a lot.



Hey, everybody's different  But, whenever I want that analogue-style presence then Serum is the _last_ synth I turn to; Zebra/HZ and Xils 4 are just far weightier in that regard (granted Xfer never tried to market Serum as an analogue emulation). And those are just two examples, in comparison Serum has more of muted sound. But hey, we all have different perceptions, more power to you if you come up with sounds like the above.

Serum to me is just incredible when it comes to mid-rangey stuff (not to mention that freaky control over the effects, which actually matches Zebra's). My favorite filters by far are the French and German, the rest to me are oddly flat, and to be completely forthright I think even the above are basically vanilla.

I have to admit, I think Serum's presets are about as UNrepresentive of that synth as possible. I feel the only way you can truly know the range of that synth is by programming. It's like Zebra in that respect, except that I prefer the Zebra/HZ sound by whole galaxies.


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## Vavastrasza

Take a look at Spire and a fairly new one: Rapid from Parawave Audio.


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## marcotronic

I've demoed Serum twice and I really hated the cold, sterile sound - it's completely lacking any warmth to my ears...
Recently bought Synthmaster and I'm quite pleased with the sound and its versatility. (Already own Omnisphere 2, Zebra 2 (+ HZ), Dune 2, Diva, Sylenth1, UVI Falcon...)


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## samy

Serum became my favorite Synth in the last year. I think there are unlimited possibilities with sounddesign and the whole interface and modulation / mapping options are just amazing. I have never programmed a synth faster. For modern EDM stuff (also with the easy drag and drop feature of samples in the noise osc) Serum is the best choice in my opinion. But also for pads I made some great stuff with it. And I love making plucks with it, so crispy. But I have to agree, for a analog sounds Diva or Sylenth 1 might be a better choice (although I think you can get very similar results in Serum if you know what you are doing).


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## Parsifal666

samy said:


> For modern EDM stuff (also with the easy drag and drop feature of samples in the noise osc) Serum is the best choice in my opinion. But also for pads I made some great stuff with it. And I love making plucks with it, so crispy. But I have to agree, for a analog sounds Diva or Sylenth 1 might be a better choice (although I think you can get very similar results in Serum if you know what you are doing).



I agree, Serum is great for EDM and Dubstep, I did some writing for those genres for pay...but I should mention, I had to couple it with XILS IV to get the bassy weight; without the latter I couldn't have gotten that thump. And I've been getting paid for this since 2010.

Sylenth is a fine synth and it always cracks me up when I read someone dissing it and/or Massive for being "old". Those synths are immortal imo, especially Massive.

Allow me to also recommend Gladiator for EDM, it's a total monster and great synth imo.


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## babylonwaves

Parsifal666 said:


> Hey, everybody's different  But, whenever I want that analogue-style presence then Serum is the _last_ synth I turn to; Zebra/HZ and Xils 4 are just far weightier in that regard


Serum is certainly a cold, crisp sounding synth and Zebra/Diva/etc. are at the other side of the spectrum, especially Diva. but as for deep basses, the amount of "analogness" in a sound is not relevant to me. the oscillators are important, and especially that those don't have notches in the output spectrum.


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## synthpunk

Some good points brought up about serum the presets that come with it are not good you'll need to make your own or turn to some of the sound designers out there doing very good work for it it's not a preset machine like Omni for example. It is a synth that can go far beyond the EDM idiom that it is known for but you will have to program and dig to do so. Importing in alternative wavetables is a great way to expand its capabilities.

As someone has pointed out also you receive a free copy of serum FX now with serum which is an added bonus.

Certainly nothing wrong with layering different synths together for different purposes it's a bit of a lost art these days but you can expand your Sonic palette using this method.


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## Wes Antczak

Just an example of what Serum is capable of.

http://sound.artenuovo.com/warmed.html


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## synthpunk

I really like this Soundset for serum
http://www.zensound.es/soundsets/serum-sagittarius/


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## Arbee

After listening to all the great suggestions here (Harmor I especially enjoyed) I've concluded that Omni and Zebra can cover most of my needs really well, but Serum adds the missing piece to my sonic puzzle. It should theoretically give me something that sits well away from sample library sonic territory when I need it to (it feels a bit like discovering the DX7 all over again ).

A couple of other Serum sound set links I found along the way in case of interest.

https://www.freshlysqueezedsamples.com/serum-trance-essentials-volume-2.html

Thanks again for the great input, love this place!


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## Chandler

Glad it helped and you found what you were looking for.


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## Arbee

Just thought I'd round out this thread for anyone who might be interested. Please note this is just my first impression and my own very subjective context. I had Serum open for a couple of hours today alongside Omnisphere and Zebra - my thoughts and observations:

Omnisphere, Zebra and Serum are three completely different beasts. Zebra to my ears definitely has the most "polished" sound overall as a straight synth, but Omnisphere minus its samples still punches well above its weight for grunt. Serum is in a completely different space sonically, very pristine and hi fi but somewhat more "woody" in fundamental tone than I was expecting once the FX were turned off.​
I love Serum's UI and it gelled with me straight away, more so than Omni or Zebra ever has. It just screams "come and tweak me".​
Serum's FX rack is awesome, and a large part (perhaps even a larger part than I'd hoped) of what attracted me to the sound of its demos and soundbanks. While I admire Omni's FX, I take my hat off to Serum's, and having the Serum FX rack now available to use separately is indeed a real bonus.​
I really like Serum's noise and sub, really useful. I can see some great kicks coming from these.​
Serum's CPU usage (latest release) on average ran at about double that of Omni or Zebra (20% v 10%) on my i7 system, and a little more with the FX turned on.​
So, do I like Serum? Yes, love it. Am I completely blown away by it? Not as much as I might have anticipated, but still a fantastic complement to Omni and Zebra. I can however see me programming Serum more than I have the other two, which adds a whole new dimension for me.

As an aside for any Pro Tools users, I also pulled up Vacuum, and as a traditional retro synth it acquitted itself surprisingly well, perhaps even enough to keep my wallet away from u-he's seductive offerings in that space for a while at least.


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## EvilDragon

I just wish that patch browsing weren't so antiquated in Serum... It really needs a separate view for patches, not just a dropdown menu, navigating that is hell when you have a lot of soundbanks. Also filtering by tags would've been awesome...


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## Parsifal666

EvilDragon said:


> I just wish that patch browsing weren't so antiquated in Serum... It really needs a separate view for patches, not just a dropdown menu, navigating that is hell when you have a lot of soundbanks. Also filtering by tags would've been awesome...



Great ideas...but for me, I have never liked even one of the Serum presets, including ones I've heard from pro sound designers. Serum for me is just a bunch of presets that I made myself; I even mostly just use my own wav forms. Right up there with Largo as a synth that just can't be judged (in general) by its presets, there's so much more.

That said, it sure would be nice to have an easier time navigating _through_ my presets....Xfer has done so many updates that it wouldn't surprise me at all to see this happen sooner than later.


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## EvilDragon

The second it gets a proper patch browser I'm probably buying it. :D


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## babylonwaves

EvilDragon said:


> The second it gets a proper patch browser I'm probably buying it.


they've added a better patch browser some time ago. did you see that?


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## EvilDragon

Hmmm, nope. Is there a video on that? Cool if they did.


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## synthpunk

Hey everyone I'm going to start a new xfer serum thread so we can discuss all the things we like, dislike, modifications, patch sets, etc.


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## Parsifal666

synthpunk said:


> Hey everyone I'm going to start a new xfer serum thread so we can discuss all the things we like, dislike, modifications, patch sets, etc.



I quote @babylonwaves there http://vi-control.net/community/threads/the-xfer-serum-synth-thread.58265/#post-4030753


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## Ryan99

I would suggest Vengeance Sounds Avenger. I just bought it and it's a beast!


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## Arbee

Having listened to demos of the many, many great synths recommended in this thread, if I was looking for just one synth to cover everything - Avenger would be on my short list. Having said that, the sonic finesse of Zebra is hard to beat IMHO.


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## Drago

Did you checked Falcon too?
http://www.uvi.net/en/software/falcon.html


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## Parsifal666

I demo'd Avenger and it was _definitely _cool.


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## synthpunk

No offense, I personally have yet to hear anything impressive come out of Falcon that's just my opinion but there's really only one developer doing good sound design for it and I have other tools that can do what it does. Of course if someone wants to impress me and try to change my mind I'm open to it.


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## marcotronic

Ryan99 said:


> I would suggest Vengeance Sounds Avenger. I just bought it and it's a beast!


wow! Haven't heard of this one before! The demo videos look/sound awesome! Gonna test that baby! 

Marco


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## Silence-is-Golden

Ryan99 said:


> I would suggest Vengeance Sounds Avenger. I just bought it and it's a beast!


it is now on my mac too and it is a very versatile great sounding synth!
for those still on the lookout this is one to acquire.

The new http://whttps://parawave-audio.com/index.php (whttps://parawave-audio.com/index.php) Rapid seems also nice.

Nevertheless with Hive, Alchemy within Logic X and now Avenger I have a good toolbox that covers a lot of ground for now.


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## Parsifal666

I really liked Avenger, but mostly because sometimes demo'ing new synths can be fun. When I went back to Zebra/HZ and Massive I heard things that were not particularly dissimilar. And I already have the programming down on the latter two.

Sometimes demos are best being just that. Demos. Especially if you already have a few of the Super Heavyweights in synthdom. You can get Massive significantly cheaper than Avenger (granted, more limited wave manipulation but sounds easily as good to me). You get more manipulation options in Avenger...well, if you already own Omnisphere, or Nave, or Serum...


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## Ashermusic

I played Hive at NAMM. That will be my next synth purchase.


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## muziksculp

You can't go wrong with *Dune 2* , I highly recommend it, wonderful Synth !


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## synthpunk

Hive is about my 5th favorite U-he synth. Still good but the whole super saw/Sylenth vibe has never quite been my thing. Great gui, easy mod matrix, and very CPU efficient.


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## sazema

Actually all of them are good choice


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## Parsifal666

Try Massive. You might be surprised, as it holds up quite well today. Better than that, actually.


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## InLight-Tone

Avenger looks really good as far as being future proof especially for dance styles...


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## Parsifal666

InLight-Tone said:


> Avenger looks really good as far as being future proof especially for dance styles...



I really like it, but I have Sylenth, Massive, Serum...Reaktor.


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## InLight-Tone

Parsifal666 said:


> I really like it, but I have Sylenth, Massive, Serum...Reaktor.


What's your experience with Reaktor? I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. I REALLY want to like it, some of the newer factory ensembles are quite good. It seems to me though you have to organize all the chaos into something use able. That's why I gravitate towards super synths like Zebra, Falcon, Omni as they are all built and ready to go with fewer options, yet Reaktor has an appeal as you can organize towards your own whims but so far I haven't been successful so it sits there doing nothing...


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## Parsifal666

InLight-Tone said:


> What's your experience with Reaktor? I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. I REALLY want to like it, some of the newer factory ensembles are quite good. It seems to me though you have to organize all the chaos into something use able. That's why I gravitate towards super synths like Zebra, Falcon, Omni as they are all built and ready to go with fewer options, yet Reaktor has an appeal as you can organize towards your own whims but so far I haven't been successful so it sits there doing nothing...



You just named all great synths, but Reaktor in itself is the kind of deep synth that rewards you commensurate to your commitment. I strongly recommend getting into Reaktor; please let me try to help by recommending one of the most powerfully inspiring ways to ease into that: Reaktor Blocks....it can seem like boundless creativity as an instrument because of its scope. You are building your own synthesizers, basically. Plus, there quite a few inspired instruments from other Blocks users that are free on the Native Instruments site. It's SO worth your investment, trust me on this.


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## InLight-Tone

Parsifal666 said:


> You just named all great synths, but Reaktor in itself is the kind of deep synth that rewards you commensurate to your commitment. I strongly recommend getting into Reaktor; please let me try to help by recommending one of the most powerfully inspiring ways to ease into that: Reaktor Blocks....it can seem like boundless creativity as an instrument because of its scope. You are building your own synthesizers, basically. Plus, there quite a few inspired instruments from other Blocks users that are free on the Native Instruments site. It's SO worth your investment, trust me on this.


OK will do. The main question in my mind though, is can I use Reaktor Blocks in media composition. The patches I've listened to are interesting but don't seem useful for more "mainstream" usage. I try to write sellable music for libraries mostly in a somewhat cinematic vein, for now to build my skills before I try to take on bigger targets.


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## synthpunk

I would say blocks and building your own ensembles qualifies as advanced programming and Reaktor is really something you must ease into and go slowly with.

There are plenty of great and useful ensembles to get started with and learn from to use in your media composing. I would highly recommend the free Boscomac ensembles and many of the factory an user ones are great as well. Reactor can be a very powerful, next generation tool once harnessed.

http://boscomac.free.fr

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/

http://twistedtools.com/blog/dron-e/


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## Parsifal666

synthpunk said:


> http://boscomac.free.fr



Great stuff, thanks for reminding me!


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## InLight-Tone

OK thanks guys, I'll be digging in, um well after I assimilate HAlion 6 which I just bought...


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## synthpunk

Couple more current ensenbles I love...







https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/9707/

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/9349/

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/9817/

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/9359/


Parsifal666 said:


> Great stuff, thanks for reminding me!


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## paulmatthew

Dune2 is great for big sounds but also does pads very well . 

Hive is similar to Sylenth some additional features and better filters , but geared toward the edm producers.

Serum is a great all around synth but the effects are nothing to write home about . 

Overall I would say Dune 2 or Serum would be the better choices of the 3 you're asking about . It all depends on what kinds if sounds you're looking for .


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## sostenuto

Now using mainly Omni2, NI (Massive/Reaktor/xxx) User and far from in-depth capability.

PluginGuru (John Lehmkuhl) has been Livestreaming cool sessions on Saturday afternoons (1:00pm PDT) and Mar 18 dealt with popular synth *Oscillators*. Near 40 viewers, worldwide, and lot of live (Chat) interaction. Mainly dealt with Omini2, Serum, Diva, Reaktor/Razor, Synthmaster One, Tone 2_Icarus, AIR_Loom, Iris2, others. Scope/waveforms on screen throughout. Lots of tweaking beyond my depth, but always returning to _quality of *Serum* oscillators_. Omni2, others, very close, and tweakable to improve, but I took note of this aspect of Serum. It's getting a bit of age now, and Loom features got my attention. Icarus definitely high as well.

Just 3rd party observation, as owner of almost all PluginGuru libraries, but seems like timely topic to mention.
Next Session is to be synth *Filters* not sure next date though ...


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