# Analog Summing



## robgb (Dec 13, 2017)

I do everything in the box, so I'm pretty clueless about this. But I have an ART Pro-VLA II hardware compressor and I'm wondering if there's a way to use this to do Analog Summing and avoid buying a summing box. Anyone know?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 13, 2017)

That's actually a surprisingly good compressor for the $. I once owned an original VLA (this is going way back).

The best answer is to try running a mix - and also individual tracks - through that box and back into your DAW, so you can A/B the two. I'd suggest setting the compressor to 1:1 so you can hear what the box does vs. how good the compression circuit is (which you can also compare to plug-ins). Try raising the input and lowering the output and v.v. to hear what the low-voltage tube does to the sound. And be sure to match the levels exactly.

You'll hear a subtle difference, depending on how hard you hit the tube(s?). It'll probably be a different sound from a summing box - in fact I'm sure every summing box sounds unique - and you can decide whether it's worth the bother.

My hunch is that it won't be, but you never know.

Also bear in mind that there are other processors you can use to add color, especially ones with transformers and high-voltage tubes. You can then play around with swapping exotic tubes for the stock ones to get more sounds.


----------



## synthpunk (Dec 13, 2017)

I use Waves NLS and like it on most mixes.
https://www.waves.com/plugins/nls-non-linear-summer#classic-console-sound-with-nls


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 13, 2017)

Synpunk, how do you set it up so it's on all your buses? I don't follow how the one with eight faders works (in either Pro Tools or Logic).


----------



## synthpunk (Dec 13, 2017)

Nick, it really depends on the mix tbh. Sometimes I just use it on the drum and master buss, sometimes just channels (there is a buss and channel plugin included). Sometimes I love the Nevo model other times Mike.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Synpunk, how do you set it up so it's on all your buses? I don't follow how the one with eight faders works (in either Pro Tools or Logic).


----------



## Prockamanisc (Dec 13, 2017)

A teacher once told me "since you'll be using your converters and losing some quality that way, you'd better make sure the trip is worth it". She used a Neve summing box, so she felt it was worth it. A dedicated summing box will usually be worth it because they'll use quality parts. Is the VLA II worth it? I don't have one so I don't know.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 13, 2017)

I dunno. My religion is that it's perfectly fine going back and forth between A and D as much as you need to (as long as you have a decent interface). Nobody's going to know. To me the question is whether that unit does something you like to the sound.



synthpunk said:


> Nick, it really depends on the mix tbh



Actually my question is more mundane. The bus version of the plug-in has I think eight channels. How do you get eight inputs into a plug-in?


----------



## robgb (Dec 13, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> To me the question is whether that unit does something you like to the sound.


Well, I can say it's certainly very warm as a compressor. Treats vocals in a way that no plug-in compressor I've encountered does. That said, I rarely use it and it's gathering dust. Thought it might be interesting to play with it a little.


----------



## jcrosby (Dec 14, 2017)

This guy's free 
https://primestudio.at/magento2/index.php/plugins/primecharly.html

It's a sampled/convolution plugin of a Tube-Tech Summing Box. (The harmonics are sampled as well.) 
Sounds fantastic! Heavy on CPU though...
(http://www.tube-tech.com/ssa-2b-stereo-summing-amplifier-26.html)


----------



## chimuelo (Dec 14, 2017)

ART is pretty decent gear.
I gave my son an ancient Brass Cap AKG C414 and a new Shure KSM8 broadcast mic and told him he could pick out a nice mic pre.
Advised him of a Digital Out via AES or ADAT and he picked an ART Dual meter ADAT Out Mic pre.
I figured it would be OK.
Was shocked at the sound and especially how a quality mic sounded.

Easy to get carried away with hardware as it is software.


----------



## Claud9 (Dec 14, 2017)

ART Pro-VLA II is not a summing mixer, you can't do analog summing with that.
You can process some of the tracks with it and then import back in your DAW, but analog summing is another thing.


----------



## Living Fossil (Dec 14, 2017)

robgb said:


> Well, I can say it's certainly very warm as a compressor. Treats vocals in a way that no plug-in compressor I've encountered does. That said, I rarely use it and it's gathering dust.



My advice would be to put up a setup where you can easily integrate outboard gear into your setup.
The easier the integration of the outboard gear, the bigger the probability you use it.

I have routed my outboard gear (some synths, a lexicon, sherman filterbank II etc) to a mixer that i can route into my audio interface with two switches when needed. It's a matter of 5 seconds, and therefore it gets a lot of use.

Every gear that has qualities you are aware of, is worth of getting used....


----------



## DynamicK (Dec 15, 2017)

*Mixbus v4*? It's only $70 and it's supposed to emulate Analogue Summing. Not tried it, but there is a demo. Just export all your stems / tracks and mix within* Mixbus*. If you use Reaper, you can use *ReaRoute* to send your audio over ASIO direct, without having to export your tracks.
Also +1 for *Charly*. I also bought the *Limited Edition* which is €6 until Feb 2018


----------



## clisma (Dec 15, 2017)

@DynamicK Love the workflow in Mixbus for mixing, too bad the mixer GUI is so tiny. Fiddling with those EQ knobs is downright painful.

Charity limited edition: does it sound significantly different for use on master buss from the basic version? The basic gets used a lot over here.


----------



## Anders Wall (Dec 15, 2017)

If you want analog summing you better get that signal out of your DAW and into some analog gear.
Computers are good at calculating stuff but can't do the chaos that are cables, components, temperature etc.
Mind you that no two analog outboard sound the same, there's just too many variables.

All the above software are great compliments.

Best,
Anders


----------



## DynamicK (Dec 15, 2017)

clisma said:


> @DynamicK Love the workflow in Mixbus for mixing, too bad the mixer GUI is so tiny. Fiddling with those EQ knobs is downright painful.
> Charity limited edition: does it sound significantly different for use on master buss from the basic version? The basic gets used a lot over here.


Gives the option of adding more saturation, which you can control. Probably good on a Drum / Guitar Buss. 
In the *Mixbus *manual it says you can enlarge the UI and Font Size (Pg 376) Haven't tried Mixbus yet, so don't know how good the scaling is.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 16, 2017)

Living Fossil said:


> My advice would be to put up a setup where you can easily integrate outboard gear into your setup.
> The easier the integration of the outboard gear, the bigger the probability you use it.
> 
> I have routed my outboard gear (some synths, a lexicon, sherman filterbank II etc) to a mixer that i can route into my audio interface with two switches when needed. It's a matter of 5 seconds, and therefore it gets a lot of use.
> ...



Good advice to keep everything hooked up.

Patchbays can also great if you have a lot of analog ins and outs to route, especially patchbays that let you change the internal configurations (normal, half normal, parallel, open). That lets you create a default setup that works most of the time, but makes it easy to change the routing very quickly.

Mixers are more flexible, but they're not always necessary. And at this point I don't need either - my audio interface has enough inputs to take the place of a mixer.


----------

