# Cinematic Rooms (Stereo, LCR, Quad, 5.1, 7.1 – 7.1.6)



## vitocorleone123

For those of you who are fans of Seventh Heaven or their Plates reverb, seems they have a new Rooms reverb (Stereo, LCR, Quad, 5.1, 7.1 – 7.1.6) with some intro pricing.

https://www.liquidsonics.com/software/cinematic-rooms


Cinematic Rooms Professional $249 - normally $399 from July 1st 2020
Cinematic Rooms Standard $129 - normally $199 from July 1st 2020

While I personally am not enamored with Seventh Heaven, the quality is undeniable, so I'll still be doing a demo of this. Only had 2 min before work to try it, but the IR approach seems to maybe work better for Rooms for me than in Seventh Heaven.

EDIT: I should've posted this in the announcements forum. Let's keep the discussion here on the use/application of the reverb rather than the announcement of it. I'll get back to using it, only stereo, later today. I'd love to hear what people think in terms of mixing in surround with it.


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## doctoremmet

Thanks for posting. I had an email about this, there are coupons for existing LiquidSonics users with discount codes. One has to apply via a separate request email that is on their website.


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## vitocorleone123

It’s the first Liquidsonics reverb I don’t dislike. I spent some more time with the standard version. It still imparts a tone or color to the sound, though more easily adjusted than Seventh Heaven. That tone is good.

But... I’m still not feeling it’s worth $130 for a stereo use, and I can’t imagine the Pro one. If you already have other Liquidsonic reverbs, and can get it at a significant discount, it seems like a no-brainer decision to get it. If you’ve liked the sound of the brand, but haven’t taken the plunge, this seems like a good reverb to do that with.


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## kgdrum

Myself I love Liquidsonics,I have all of their products so with the stackable discounts this will be very inexpensive thankfully 😅 
@vitocorleone123 I’m surprised you don’t like 7H most people like Seventh Heaven,I adore it ❤️


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## vitocorleone123

I get it. The reverbs are of undeniable high quality.

It’s just the coloration they impart is one I’d rather add through other effects, like saturation and EQ, than a reverb. Reverbs are so subjective - just because I don’t love one brand doesn’t mean anything. I’ve found I’m more of an Exponential guy when it comes to reverbs. Also think Relab Sonsig-A is great. 

I’m curious about the Rooms Pro version, though the cost is too high for 2 channel use. The standard version doesn’t seem worth it over what I already have. I’m kind of liking Rooms, but not enough to buy it.


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## kgdrum

I’m a reverb whore I also have and use most of Exponential while I like the verbs I didn’t like the upgrade policies Michael Cairns implemented.
I’m waiting for iZotope to eventually discount R4 I held off going for it as there was no upgrade from R2

fwiw I love all kinds of reverbs,delays etc.......from realistic to colored ,I ate psychedelics like candy when I was a teenager! 😘🌻☄️🌈⛅️💦


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## Rctec

vitocorleone123 said:


> For those of you who are fans of Seventh Heaven or their Plates reverb, seems they have a new Rooms reverb (Stereo, LCR, Quad, 5.1, 7.1 – 7.1.6) with some intro pricing.
> 
> https://www.liquidsonics.com/software/cinematic-rooms
> 
> 
> Cinematic Rooms Professional $249 - normally $399 from July 1st 2020
> Cinematic Rooms Standard $129 - normally $199 from July 1st 2020
> 
> While I personally am not enamored with Seventh Heaven, the quality is undeniable, so I'll still be doing a demo of this. Only had 2 min before work to try it, but the IR approach seems to maybe work better for Rooms for me than in Seventh Heaven.
> 
> EDIT: I should've posted this in the announcements forum. Let's keep the discussion here on the use/application of the reverb rather than the announcement of it. I'll get back to using it, only stereo, later today. I'd love to hear what people think in terms of mixing in surround with it.


Why only stereo? Surround or go home! if you want to be doing any film-work, this is the best reverb I’ve ever come across.


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## vitocorleone123

Rctec said:


> Why only stereo? Surround or go home! if you want to be doing any film-work, this is the best reverb I’ve ever come across.



I believe it. Sounds like they worked hard for that. But I make music, not scores. Two channels is hard enough for me to worry about


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## jononotbono

Rctec said:


> Why only stereo? Surround or go home! if you want to be doing any film-work, this is the best reverb I’ve ever come across.



What do you think of Exponential Audio Reverbs? I've been listening to a mix engineer I have a job with use them when working in Atmos and he thinks they are really good. Favouring them over Bricasti many times as it's just so much more money to shell out for 6 of them instead of using Exponential audio.


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## doctoremmet

jononotbono said:


> What do you think of Exponential Audio Reverbs? I've been listening to a mix engineer I have a job with use them when working in Atmos and he thinks they are really good. Favouring them over Bricasti many times as it's just so much more money to shell out for 6 of them instead of using Exponential audio.


I have R2 and Phoenixverb. They cost like $50 if you first get the latter and then crossgrade to R2. Each has a distinctive character, and they both can do excellent jobs. I still like Seventh Heaven (Standard) better though, and you can have six of those for $69 . No idea how close you’d actually get to a real M7 - but my guess is: pretty close. Liquidsonics makes some excellent verbs.


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## kgdrum

vitocorleone123 said:


> I believe it. Sounds like they worked hard for that. But I make music, not scores. Two channels is hard enough for me to worry about




+1 
Another user who does music. I’m not a film guy, two channels are more than enough for me.


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## jononotbono

doctoremmet said:


> I have R2 and Phoenixverb. They cost like $50 if you first get the latter and then crossgrade to R2. Each has a distinctive character, and they both can do excellent jobs. I still like Seventh Heaven (Standard) better though, and you can have six of those for $69 . No idea how close you’d actually get to a real M7 - but my guess is: pretty close. Liquidsonics makes some excellent verbs.



The studio I work at has a couple of Bricasti M7. To be fair, they have pretty much everything. And the resident engineer loves Seventh Heaven. But I think he uses Exponential audio when working in Atmos because of budget (client budget). The room is fitted with nearly 30 PMCs including 5 x QB1 XBDAs for Left Centre and Right.

It’s quite possible he just hasn’t seen this new release but I always take the piss and say he’s being a tight bastard only owning 2 Bricastis. 😂


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## kgdrum

Liquidsonics,Exponential they’re both great,it’s like different fine wines.
Different people will prefer one or the other but they are both wonderful and the developers that created these are enormously talented. 🥂


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## jononotbono

kgdrum said:


> Liquidsonics,Exponential they’re both great,it’s like different fine wines.
> Different people will prefer one or the other but they are both wonderful and the developers that created these are enormously talented. 🥂



Liquid Sonics is only "Atmos Bed" though. Obviously not a problem if you aren't working in Atmos. Or 360.


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## tmhuud

9 is the sweet spot on Bricastis.


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## jamwerks

Wonder how this will compare with Spaces II?


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## Dombaeb

I'm not using anything surround'ish but this reverb really impressed me. It's not "just sit in the mix" thing for me, it has very inspiring sound itself. Nonetheless, I don't want to sell Illusion because of its unique low-end reverberation.


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## GNP

Wow, I wasn't even aware of Liquid Sonics reverbs until you guys posted this. Thanks so much!


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## Joël Dollié

Rctec said:


> Why only stereo? Surround or go home! if you want to be doing any film-work, this is the best reverb I’ve ever come across.


I tried cinematic rooms, sounds awesome. Here are my observations:

-The tails are extremely neutral, they just extend the source sound without a lot of coloring/chorusing by default. I feel it would be amazing on bladerunner type synths.

- Being able to tweak the ER slightly without changing the whole sound is extremely powerful (different ER on rear speakers anyone?)

- Really awesome depth with the ER set to "distant".

- Lots of presets, so awesome for film

- In terms of pure hall sound, I still prefer VSS3 which has slightly more character/interesting modulation and sounds a bit more like a hall to me. Cinematic rooms is very clean though

- The short "ambiance" type reverbs are very useful, especially considering the quality of those early reflections, probably the best I've heard. Reminds me of the bricasti short ambient reverbs.

- Overall the tweakability is amazing, and I think that what makes it so awesome for film. The pure sound/tail itself might not be the most realistic ever made to my ears but it's up there. ER are basically the best and the variety is amazing.


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## jamwerks

What are the prices if you own 7th Heaven Pro?


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## Fry777

jamwerks said:


> What are the prices if you own 7th Heaven Pro?



An additional 25% off the intro price

Upgrades coupons here


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## Rob Elliott

I usually blow off the 'new girl on the block' verb releases (enough is enough) - BUT - this looks interesting. Will give it at least a 14 day trial.

One question - any sacrifices in sound quality of standard edition? I wouldn't expect as much but worth asking. I would particularly be concerned if any comprises in the quality of filters on Std edition.


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## quickbrownf0x

Ooh this looks sweat. Totally worth sleeping on the couch for a few days.


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## kgdrum

Rob Elliott said:


> I usually blow off the 'new girl on the block' verb releases (enough is enough) - BUT - this looks interesting. Will give it at least a 14 day trial.
> 
> One question - any sacrifices in sound quality of standard edition? I wouldn't expect as much but worth asking. I would particularly be concerned if any comprises in the quality of filters on Std edition.




There’s a great thread on Gearslutz has a bunch of the Cinematic Rooms beta testers they are discussing the differences of the different versions also many of them are using this 2 channel.

If I’m understanding this correctly the sound quality of the two versions are the same but the Pro version has 3 more modes,about 2x more presets and is more editable.

fwiw With this information as well as the generous loyalty discount Liquidsonics offers customers that have other Liquidsonics products I’m going to get the Pro version. 😋

Here’s what a beta tester swartzfeger says:

“Ok, just checked -- there are three categories in Pro not in Standard -- nonlinear, post, and studios.

In addition to that, the Standard categories (ambiences, chambers, halls, rooms, spaces) has about 2x as many presets in Professional vs Standard (eyeballing it, don't hold me to an exact count )

All of these presets can be loaded in stereo. I don't work in surround.”












LiquidSonics Announce Cinematic Rooms - Powerful Atmos Compatible Reverb - Gearspace.com


LiquidSonics Announce Cinematic Rooms - Powerful Atmos Compatible Reverb June 1st 2020, LiquidSonics, London, UK - the company behind the iconic Seventh Heaven and Lustrous Plates reverb plug-ins announce their latest reverb Cinematic Rooms, offering exqu



www.gearslutz.com


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## doctoremmet

Paging @Cory Pelizzari


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## LamaRose

The real no-brainer here is the two week trial for BOTH editions! Thumbs-up to LS for this offer. It's a shame - sham? - that this isn't standard practice with all developers.


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## Cory Pelizzari

doctoremmet said:


> Paging @Cory Pelizzari


At more than twice the retail price for the standard version than Seventh Heaven this thing would have to sound even better for me to commit I think. I understand part of the pricing is because it's a surround reverb, but I never have and never will make a song in surround, so for my work it's not as appealing and I wouldn't be able to provide a decent video for it - plus considering most people watch my videos with a pair of monitors or headphones, trying to showcase a surround reverb wouldn't be very effective.


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## jamwerks

So is this based on IR's of their making from real Rooms and halls?


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## doctoremmet

Cory Pelizzari said:


> At more than twice the retail price for the standard version than Seventh Heaven this thing would have to sound even better for me to commit I think. I understand part of the pricing is because it's a surround reverb, but I never have and never will make a song in surround, so for my work it's not as appealing and I wouldn't be able to provide a decent video for it - plus considering most people watch my videos with a pair of monitors or headphones, trying to showcase a surround reverb wouldn't be very effective.


Gotcha! But I figured it can also be used for stereo use cases


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## Craig Sharmat

Rctec said:


> Why only stereo? Surround or go home! if you want to be doing any film-work, this is the best reverb I’ve ever come across.



I am home, i have been home for 3 months and it appears I'm staying home.


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## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> Gotcha! But I figured it can also be used for stereo use cases




@doctoremmet 
If you saw the GearSlutz link I posted earlier in this thread a few of the LCR beta testers posted that they only use Cinematic Rooms as a stereo reverb and they love it.They mention it as being a stellar 2 channel reverb.


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## artomatic

Working on a project. Bought the pro (for stereo use only) and was so pleasantly surprised how good this thing is!
I've already started to use this, replacing my earlier choices from other verb libraries.
I'm thinking this will become one of my go-to verb for sure.


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## vitocorleone123

I suppose I should be happy to be reluctant to spend money on anything by Liquidsonics (more money left in the pocket). To my brain, what I consider good reverbs make it sound like the original content is in a space. Liquidsonics reverbs makes it so the space is part of the content, and thereby is now different content. This is what I mean when I say it colors the sound.

For example, two dry piano notes: in reverbs I like, it puts the piano in a hall and fills in the air with sound between the notes. Liquidsonics reverbs I’ve tried make it sound like a different piano playing the notes in a dark hall. I would normally add other effects to do that if it was some specific special sound I was going for.

I’m still trying out Rooms, but I’m having a similar reaction to it, albeit less than with Seventh Heaven. I dial down some of the effect, and then I’m left with wondering why I wouldn’t just use a “better sounding” (to me) reverb in the first place. Again, this is for 2ch music.


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## Rob Elliott

Using ANY verb with CSS/CSSS is a judicious effort to say the least. For me, verbs just seem to 'ruin' the vibe of that library. Over the course of a year I have settled with a decent verb sound (Fab Filter Pro-R) - settings for FFR are extremely subtle for me to even like it. Alex mentioned this on release that he also preferred to use little or no other verb with CSS.

Any CSS/CSSS owners find a 'starting' patch in Cinematic Rooms that plays friendly?


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## averystemmler

As a note to anyone wondering about Cinematic Rooms for stereo use, there's an option ("True-Stereo Plane L/R Propagation") to split the surround channels into multiple true-stereo pairs. Instead of each channel propagating through all of the other channels in a surround-y fashion, each stereo pair will act as a separate stereo reverb, but with the same relative settings based on the master. 

From my (limited) testing so far, I don't believe there are any troublesome differences between the "Front", "Rear", or "Side" pairs in this mode, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong. (I'll edit in a correction here if I discover that I'm talking nonsense)

In addition to the intended surround uses, this means you can route up to 3 stereo stems through the same instance of Cinematic Rooms, each into its own set of inputs and outputs. Which could make it slightly easier to audition presets/settings for multiple stems, and keep your project cleaner (though how convenient the routing is depends on your DAW).

Alternately, you could set one stereo pair to 100% early reflections and another to 100% late reflections, and address them with individual sends from each of your tracks, if that's your preferred way of handling depth. 

I've only been playing with it for about a day, but I'm really enjoying this so far. I'm always impressed by how difficult it is to make LiquidSonics' reverbs sound bad, and this one allows for some pretty respectable flexibility too - and has some of the most unilaterally useful-sounding presets I've encountered. Still debating where/whether it'll fit in my workflow (I try to avoid depending on dongle-based products, for personal neuroses), but there's no denying the quality of it.


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## Fitz

Has anyone tried this writing in surround in Cubase?
Looking for a surround reverb. Right now, I pan a stereo FX channel to the back.
What other surround verbs would you recommend?


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## kgdrum

While I don’t use Cubase or do surround,besides Liquidsonics Cinematic Rooms ,you might want to check out Exponential Audio’s reverbs,now part of the IZotope family.
They offer surround reverbs options. and are great reverbs.


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## Rctec

Fitz said:


> Has anyone tried this writing in surround in Cubase?
> Looking for a surround reverb. Right now, I pan a stereo FX channel to the back.
> What other surround verbs would you recommend?


It’s now all I’m using for reverb in Cubase (well... and a little UAD 480...)


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## Fitz

Rctec said:


> It’s now all I’m using for reverb in Cubase (well... and a little UAD 480...)


How many different FX channels do you use in your template? Different lengths or have an FX channel for each section of orchestra?


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## sathyva

Rob Elliott said:


> Using ANY verb with CSS/CSSS is a judicious effort to say the least. For me, verbs just seem to 'ruin' the vibe of that library. Over the course of a year I have settled with a decent verb sound (Fab Filter Pro-R) - settings for FFR are extremely subtle for me to even like it. Alex mentioned this on release that he also preferred to use little or no other verb with CSS.
> 
> Any CSS/CSSS owners find a 'starting' patch in Cinematic Rooms that plays friendly?



i tried this preset :
Studio > Stages > Orchestration Studio ( with ER settings at Distant 2 and equal mix for ER/Tail )
and it sounds really great with CSS and CSSS ! Really nice depth and very pleasing tail. Sounds so smooth !
I also have Seventh Heaven but now i prefer Cinematic Rooms.
As i work mostly for TV, i use only stereo


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## peladio

Fitz said:


> What other surround verbs would you recommend?



Relab 6000 clone should be out soon..









Relab System 6000 Reverb Plugin - Gearspace.com


Seems relab is going System 6000 Reverb https://www.facebook.com/RelabDev <iframe src='https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FRelabDev%2Fposts%2F2710125575699986%3A0&width=500' width='500&quot



www.gearslutz.com


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## AdamKmusic

Really want seventh heaven & this sounds pretty great too, shame it’s locked to a ilok dongle


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## doctoremmet

peladio said:


> Relab 6000 clone should be out soon..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Relab System 6000 Reverb Plugin - Gearspace.com
> 
> 
> Seems relab is going System 6000 Reverb https://www.facebook.com/RelabDev <iframe src='https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FRelabDev%2Fposts%2F2710125575699986%3A0&width=500' width='500&quot
> 
> 
> 
> www.gearslutz.com


Huh? I thought the VSR S24 already did a TC Electronic 6000 emu. Is this a new or different version then?


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## Nils Neumann

Is the pro version a must for surround application?


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## Fry777

sathyva said:


> I also have Seventh Heaven but now i prefer Cinematic Rooms.



Could you elaborate on why and if it's a significant upgrade ?


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## peladio

doctoremmet said:


> Huh? I thought the VSR S24 already did a TC Electronic 6000 emu. Is this a new or different version then?



S24 is a stereo only emulation..if I'm not wrong, upcoming 6000 will not replace it but it will be a separate surround plugin


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## doctoremmet

peladio said:


> S24 is a stereo only emulation..if I'm not wrong, upcoming 6000 will not replace it but it will be a separate surround plugin


Check. Gotcha! Thanks


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## nordicguy

Nils Neumann said:


> Is the pro version a must for surround application?


Both are capable of: Stereo, LCR, Quad, 5.1, 7.1 – 7.1.6


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## Rob Elliott

sathyva said:


> i tried this preset :
> Studio > Stages > Orchestration Studio ( with ER settings at Distant 2 and equal mix for ER/Tail )
> and it sounds really great with CSS and CSSS ! Really nice depth and very pleasing tail. Sounds so smooth !
> I also have Seventh Heaven but now i prefer Cinematic Rooms.
> As i work mostly for TV, i use only stereo



Thanks for this starting point but looks like it is not in the standard edition. :(

(I'll install the pro version though to check it out. This thing is going to have to blow me away to push aside FF Pro R - which I LOVE.)


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## Sjoerd Visser

AdamKmusic said:


> Really want seventh heaven & this sounds pretty great too, shame it’s locked to a ilok dongle



You don't actually need a physical dongle, since it works fine on iLok Cloud.


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## GNP

Cory Pelizzari said:


> At more than twice the retail price for the standard version than Seventh Heaven this thing would have to sound even better for me to commit I think. I understand part of the pricing is because it's a surround reverb, but I never have and never will make a song in surround, so for my work it's not as appealing and I wouldn't be able to provide a decent video for it - plus considering most people watch my videos with a pair of monitors or headphones, trying to showcase a surround reverb wouldn't be very effective.



I agree. That's why I only purchased the lighter version, and it works in everything I do.
I think it's dubbing mixers at the dub stage who would be better suited to buy the Pro version for surround. Either that or scoring mixers like Alan Meyerson who mixes in surround, then delivering them to the dubbing mixer.

I do not have surround and will never mix in surround at least for now, so I don't need the Pro version.


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## sathyva

Fry777 said:


> Could you elaborate on why and if it's a significant upgrade ?



The sound man ! the sound ! 
Joke aside...
The sound is much more smoother, especially the tails. And the Proximity button ( in the ER settings ) just does wonder for adding a sense of depth that i just can't have on Seventh Heaven ( even with predelay ) 
You should try the demo because i'm a bad reviewer


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## sathyva

Rob Elliott said:


> Thanks for this starting point but looks like it is not in the standard edition. :(
> 
> (I'll install the pro version though to check it out. This thing is going to have to blow me away to push aside FF Pro R - which I LOVE.)



the Proximity knob is also available on the standard edition 
That knob makes a lot of difference for me.
Now it's time to add Cinematic Rooms to my template...
By the way FF Pro-R works really great but if you're a heavy user of CSS like me, Cinematic Rooms is a great addition to an already great library !


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## Fitz

For Cubase users, how many different FX channels do you guys put your orchestral reverbs on? I've been using a short / long, as well as different sections.

Do you guys ever send the group channels to the FX sends or just the audio channels?


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## AdamKmusic

Sjoerd Visser said:


> You don't actually need a physical dongle, since it works fine on iLok Cloud.


That requires being always online doesn’t it though? Which is fine I guess as my internet hasn’t gone down to my knowledge


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## axb312

AdamKmusic said:


> That requires being always online doesn’t it though? Which is fine I guess as my internet hasn’t gone down to my knowledge



You can activate it using machine based ilok. This info is clearly available on the liquidsonics website.


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## ALittleNightMusic

Stunning reverb - bought within 20 min of trying it. (My testing also reminded me how nice the UAD Lexicon 224 is too).


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## turnerofwheels

Anyone attempting to use this with soundstaging plugins (VSS2, EAReverb, Precedence etc)?

I am quite fond of the demo so far and despite having too many reverb plugins may spring for it before the intro sale is over. It's surprisingly gentle on the CPU as well, not much heavier than Lexicon PCM plugs.


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## doctoremmet

SHANE TURNER said:


> Anyone attempting to use this with soundstaging plugins (VSS2, EAReverb, Precedence etc)?


Very curious about this as well. This new reverb is very good, on par with or maybe even exceeding my other favorites (Seventh Heaven, Relab VSR24). I am even tempted to try out something like Precedence.

In a slightly broader context, not to derail this thread: does it make sense to not use Breeze with Precedence? Any experiences with e.g. Seventh Heaven? Cheers! (To clarify: I don’t own Breeze).


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## bdev

SHANE TURNER said:


> Anyone attempting to use this with soundstaging plugins (VSS2, EAReverb, Precedence etc)?
> 
> I am quite fond of the demo so far and despite having too many reverb plugins may spring for it before the intro sale is over. It's surprisingly gentle on the CPU as well, not much heavier than Lexicon PCM plugs.


I bought Cinematic Rooms Pro after three days of try, I like it a lot. I tested it with Precedence and Breeze which I use mainly for the placement on each track of a project. I tried to put CR on the main bus and got a great result ! At least fo me, I am a hobbist.
Sorry for this bad English, I am French.


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## axb312

Any other thoughts/ reviews on this? I tried it and it seemed to gel well with the source sounds but as such not bring anything outstanding to the table...


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## Scoremixer

Tried it in stereo at home, and whilst it's very nice it didn't particularly do anything to make me think it's a game-changer over and above the other great reverbs out there like R4 or 7th Heaven. 

Got to try it in surround yesterday at the studio, and there, for me at least, it is a game-changer. Populates all the channels from a stereo input in a very natural manner and does the same 'glue-ing a sound in a room' thing as a Bricasti, imo. Don't have the obvious competitors Stratus/Symphony to compare it with, but the basic version is very capable and much cheaper so it's an insta-buy for me.


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## Nantho Valentine

Hi every one ! 

Don't know if it can interest some of you, but I was frustrated about the lack of audio on the official website so I've tried the demo version and made a little video :


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## C.Franzén

Have to check this out. I think great reverbs are so inspring, I just based an entire cue on how my piano sounded in a specific washy-space


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## doctoremmet

Reverbs can be very inspiring, yes.


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## chrisr

Interested to know ball-park figures for how many of these people can comfortably run together in a session on a decent modern CPU? 

If I had a top of the line Ryzen running at high-ish latency (say 512) - are we talking 20 / 50 / 100 / more ?

Sorry for such a vague and generalised question and I understand there are no absolute answers. My old 6 core x99 CPU is still going great guns but I like to daydream about what my next rig might look like occasionally.

Had always assumed PT users would be sticking with AAX DSP plugs for their big sessions but noticed that this is AAX Native - but then seeing the big hitters that are on board it makes me wonder how many instances those guys are likely to be running?


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## Scoremixer

chrisr said:


> Had always assumed PT users would be sticking with AAX DSP plugs for their big sessions but noticed that this is AAX Native - but then seeing the big hitters that are on board it makes me wonder how many instances those guys are likely to be running?



AAX DSP is on the way out as far as I can see. Fewer and fewer new plugins are being released for it, and modern CPUs frankly thrash the Avid cards for plugin processing per £. Hi track count recording at low latency is still another matter, for now at least.

Just did a quick unscientific test at home on my late 2015 4GHz i7 iMac: 

24 stereo instances of Cinematic Rooms with the default 2.25s preset - 32-36% of the cpu
24 Seventh Heaven Pro 2.20s large hall - 36-42% cpu
24 Exponential R4 2.25s large hall - 20-24% cpu
24 Valhalla Room 2.25s large hall - 16-20% cpu


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## chrisr

Scoremixer said:


> Just did a quick unscientific test at home on my late 2015 4GHz i7 iMac:



Thanks so much Adam - that's very kind of you!

I had heard it mentioned previously that AAX DSP is a dwindling force - part of the reason I'm intrigued by developments like audiogridder. I'm assuming that 24 stereo instances might not be too dissimilar to 12 quad for those working that way. Still, a quarter to a third of your CPU is quite a chunk to devote to reverb - although I'm guessing with a 2020 cpu that would drop down to nearer 10-15 % for a similar plug count.

Thanks again!


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## sathyva

chrisr said:


> Thanks so much Adam - that's very kind of you!
> 
> I had heard it mentioned previously that AAX DSP is a dwindling force - part of the reason I'm intrigued by developments like audiogridder. I'm assuming that 24 stereo instances might not be too dissimilar to 12 quad for those working that way. Still, a quarter to a third of your CPU is quite a chunk to devote to reverb - although I'm guessing with a 2020 cpu that would drop down to nearer 10-15 % for a similar plug count.
> 
> Thanks again!



Audiogridder works really great ! For an Alpha version, it's pretty rock-solid, even with some Acustica Audio plugins


----------



## Emmanuel

This reverb plugin requires an USB iLok dongle ? Or just iLok acount ?


----------



## paulmatthew

Emmanuel said:


> This reverb plugin requires an USB iLok dongle ? Or just iLok acount ?


It can be authorized by all 3 methods for Ilok : Ilok 2 or 3 )dongle) , Ilok Cloud or Ilok Manager(Local Computer)


----------



## ElectricFrog

Here is a video using the pro version:


----------



## jononotbono

So who has gone for the Pro version?


----------



## MisteR

How many authorizations do you get?

Edit: Looks like two.


----------



## Rctec

Fitz said:


> Has anyone tried this writing in surround in Cubase?
> Looking for a surround reverb. Right now, I pan a stereo FX channel to the back.
> What other surround verbs would you recommend?


I and everyone at Remote always write in surround...


----------



## Anders Wall

MisteR said:


> How many authorizations do you get?
> 
> Edit: Looks like two.


Yup, can confirm two






best,
/Anders


----------



## Anders Wall

Rctec said:


> I and everyone at Remote always write in surround...


As in quad or 5/7...?
Nowadays I deliver 100% for stereo-broadcast-tv but I still work in quad. Having the room talk to/with you... inspires.
Best,
/Anders


----------



## ashtongleckman

Rctec said:


> Why only stereo? Surround or go home! if you want to be doing any film-work, this is the best reverb I’ve ever come across.


if only I could afford to write in surround, LOL... It's a costly endeavor!


----------



## jononotbono

Bollocks to it. I'm buying the Pro version. Can't be pissing about can I?!


----------



## bengoss

ashtongleckman said:


> if only I could afford to write in surround, LOL... It's a costly endeavor!


+1 :(


----------



## bengoss

jononotbono said:


> Bollocks to it. I'm buying the Pro version. Can't be pissing about can I?!


I got it the second day of my trial. Amazing reverb.


----------



## jononotbono

bengoss said:


> I got it the second day of my trial. Amazing reverb.



Yeah I'm gonna have a few post "I didn't win the Westworld competition" beers tonight and get the credit card out and finish the day with sound great sounding positivity.


----------



## bengoss

jononotbono said:


> Yeah I'm gonna have a few post "I didn't win the Westworld competition" beers tonight and get the credit card out and finish the day with sound great sounding positivity.


Lol  yeah westworld was super disappointment from Spitfire and very disrespectful to many film composers. Cinematic rooms will definitely help


----------



## jononotbono

bengoss said:


> Lol  yeah westworld was super disappointment from Spitfire and very disrespectful to many film composers. Cinematic rooms will definitely help



Ah man, I’m not disappointed in Spitfire and don’t feel any disrespect. I just didn’t win because I’m not good enough. Nevermind. More practise needed! 

I’m going to try this reverb out in a rather nice Atmos mixing room when I buy it. What’s it like on CPU?


----------



## bengoss

jononotbono said:


> Ah man, I’m not disappointed in Spitfire and don’t feel any disrespect. I just didn’t win because I’m not good enough. Nevermind. More practise needed!
> 
> I’m going to try this reverb out in a rather nice Atmos mixing room when I buy it. What’s it like on CPU?


I’m not noticing any difference on CPU over the Seventh Heaven.
Get the trial first, I think it’s 14 days.


----------



## Nils Neumann

ashtongleckman said:


> if only I could afford to write in surround, LOL... It's a costly endeavor!


Yes, I just got into it (quad for now). And it’s not only the Speaker set but also plugins that now need to be 5.1 and upwards compatible, very powerful rig with a lot of ram as you double the voices for 4 quad channels, new acoustic treatment... But the results are worth it. I’m constantly smiling when I’m composing something with this new set up, it’s something special.

I understand Mr. Zimmer now, he mentioned it in a thread somewhere on VI-C how essential he feels it is.
I'm wondering how the facilities at RC operates, only 5.1 or 7.1? And then from there? Upmix? The real orchestral recording has all the atmos mics but what about the synths and samples? Can anybody chime in here?


----------



## Nils Neumann

jononotbono said:


> Ah man, I’m not disappointed in Spitfire and don’t feel any disrespect. I just didn’t win because I’m not good enough. Nevermind. More practise needed!
> 
> I’m going to try this reverb out in a rather nice Atmos mixing room when I buy it. What’s it like on CPU?


For me, on Cubase, it's quite substantial. Only 1 instance as glue. It occupies a rather big part of the audio performance meter. Even though that is not really a CPU meter.


----------



## Fitz

Rctec said:


> I and everyone at Remote always write in surround...


Hans how do you split out your reverbs with this? Just bought and love it...
Different reverbs for sections? Or long / short reverbs etc?


----------



## synergy543

jononotbono said:


> ... What’s it like on CPU?


Says the bloke with TWO 28-core MacPros! Sorry, that had me bursting out in laughter.


----------



## jononotbono

synergy543 said:


> Says the bloke with TWO 28-core MacPros! Sorry, that had me bursting out in laughter.



How do you think Billionaires keep their money? We micromanage everything. Including our CPU usage.


----------



## jaketanner

jamwerks said:


> What are the prices if you own 7th Heaven Pro?


I have a question about 7th heaven pro. I have the standard edition, and quite like the Scoring stage preset...but I think it still needs a bit more tweaking to sit right. Does the pro version offer better ways to tweak this particular preset? I also noticed that in the pro version there is only one scoring stage preset also...is this still true, or are there more? The Cinematic Rooms reverb doesn't offer any actual scoring stages..it's more like a foley reverb...so it seems. I can't really find any preset list.


----------



## doctoremmet

jaketanner said:


> I have a question about 7th heaven pro. I have the standard edition, and quite like the Scoring stage preset...but I think it still needs a bit more tweaking to sit right. Does the pro version offer better ways to tweak this particular preset? I also noticed that in the pro version there is only one scoring stage preset also...is this still true, or are there more? The Cinematic Rooms reverb doesn't offer any actual scoring stages..it's more like a foley reverb...so it seems. I can't really find any preset list.


You may wanna ask @Cory Pelizzari . He has made a great review video on 7th Heaven in an orchestral context and if I’m not mistaken has upgraded to Pro.


----------



## jaketanner

doctoremmet said:


> You may wanna ask @Cory Pelizzari . He has made a great review video on 7th Heaven in an orchestral context and if I’m not mistaken has upgraded to Pro.


He's the one that hooked me on to the standard version.  Glad he upgraded.


----------



## KEM

Wow, thanks guys, I was perfectly happy with Valhalla Room, and now I want to be new reverbs...


----------



## jaketanner

KEM said:


> Wow, thanks guys, I was perfectly happy with Valhalla Room, and now I want to be new reverbs...


this reverb is better than Valhalla.


----------



## KEM

jaketanner said:


> this reverb is better than Valhalla.



I have no doubt about it!!


----------



## jamwerks

Don't have Valhalla. Was using 7th heaven & Spaces II but this CR seems so much better!


----------



## KEM

Just downloaded the trial and am messing with it now and I definitely agree with @Joël Dollié, it has a very neutral tail that sounds like an extension of the source sound instead of a super modulated reverb, this is something I’m gonna have to get used to after using Valhalla for so long, but so far I’m liking the tweakability it has and I think the sound is pretty good, just not what I’m used to. I should also mention that I’m in stereo (for now) so I’m not using the full potential that it has right now.


----------



## doctoremmet

jaketanner said:


> He's the one that hooked me on to the standard version.  Glad he upgraded.


Same here


----------



## jaketanner

doctoremmet said:


> Same here


Going for CR instead. for whatever reason, it's a cheaper upgrade to go pro on Cinematic Rooms, than for 7H...and it's a less expensive reverb when at full price.. LOL Not gonna pay almost full price for 7H pro, when I just bought standard...that would be a waste...not sure what their reasoning is behind that 5% only...but for CR it's a good deal at $236.


----------



## peladio

jaketanner said:


> this reverb is better than Valhalla.



Why is it better apart from surround options?


----------



## davidson

How close can you get to the seventh heaven sound with cinematic rooms?


----------



## jaketanner

peladio said:


> Why is it better apart from surround options?


I don’t have Valhalla, but have used it, and comparing the two, CR just has way more options. Also it’s really sonically awesome. Best to try the demo. There is a lot of new tech under the hood that other reverbs don’t have.


----------



## jaketanner

davidson said:


> How close can you get to the seventh heaven sound with cinematic rooms?


Haven’t tried. CR seems to be a bit more beefy though. I have 7H standard and when I demoed CR standard, it sounded like it has more body. 7H is an emulation of a Bricasti, and CR is a fully reimagined reverb. I’m sure you can get close, but two different animals.


----------



## paulmatthew

jaketanner said:


> Going for CR instead. for whatever reason, it's a cheaper upgrade to go pro on Cinematic Rooms, than for 7H...and it's a less expensive reverb when at full price.. LOL Not gonna pay almost full price for 7H pro, when I just bought standard...that would be a waste...not sure what their reasoning is behind that 5% only...but for CR it's a good deal at $236.


It’s because CR standard license becomes replaced with a single license for CR Professional. Seventh heaven and seventh heaven pro are 2 separate products. It’s not really an upgrade since you are getting licenses for both versions of Seventh Heaven.


----------



## jaketanner

paulmatthew said:


> It’s because CR standard license becomes replaced with a single license for CR Professional. Seventh heaven and seventh heaven pro are 2 separate products. It’s not really an upgrade since you are getting licenses for both versions of Seventh Heaven.


That's weird...why not just include the quick presets from standard in the pro version. But either way...I might get 7H pro later on, for now it's CR pro.


----------



## ckeddf

paulmatthew said:


> It’s because CR standard license becomes replaced with a single license for CR Professional. Seventh heaven and seventh heaven pro are 2 separate products. It’s not really an upgrade since you are getting licenses for both versions of Seventh Heaven.



From the Liquidsonics website: „Each Cinematic Rooms Professional edition activation license will also unlock the Cinematic Rooms standard edition plug-in.“


----------



## jaketanner

ckeddf said:


> From the Liquidsonics website: „Each Cinematic Rooms Professional edition activation license will also unlock the Cinematic Rooms standard edition plug-in.“


SO I had both standard AND pro versions? Didn't realize this because I've been chatting with Matt from Liquidsonics this morning and he never mentioned that. I'll check, thanks.


----------



## kgdrum

ckeddf said:


> From the Liquidsonics website: „Each Cinematic Rooms Professional edition activation license will also unlock the Cinematic Rooms standard edition plug-in.“





That’s a great tip, Thanks 👍
I missed that,I had previously bought and only installed CR Pro now I just installed CR , I like having both options! 
I actually have both 7H and 7H Pro and sometimes I prefer using 7H for the simplicity I assume there will also be times I just want to add CR and not get too caught up with tweaking CR Pro.


----------



## doctoremmet

Recently @CGR educated me on a reverb he likes, for piano work he does. It is Melda’s MReverb. Especially the 2D placement is a nice tool, and I guess it also sounds nice. I only have their semi free stuff so far, but the MCharmVerb sounds very good.

Wanting to look into Craig’s reverb I stumbled across MTurboReverb. I guess because of 2 usual suspects (1. That name, ugh... and 2. me like a lot of people not being particularly fond of Melda’s UI design choices) I kind of dismissed this one. But I must say, having read up a little on it, I am pretty curious. The current price is way up there, but there have been some good sales in the past.

Long intro. Short question: anyone use this for orchestral stuff? I would be very curious to hear some of your experiences. I have a handful of really great reverbs (including 7H and Cinematic Rooms), but this one is interesting, because it also has the 2D positioning Craig mentioned and seems to like.

Sort of on that same subject: does anyone use the LiquidSonics reverbs in conjunction with 2caudio’s Precedence?


----------



## Living Fossil

doctoremmet said:


> Sort of on that same subject: does anyone use the LiquidSonics reverbs in conjunction with 2caudio’s Precedence?



If you have a bit of patience: next week I am back to work and will start using CR.
(however, as written in the other thread, most likely it will be the combination of Precedence-Breeze and CR, or only CR)

I have MTurboReverb inside of MXXX. The "problem" is simply the sheer amount of material in MTR; countless algorithms etc., one needs weeks to go through everything that's offered. That's why i usually stick to those tools i use regularly...  
However, i used MTR on some occasions where i had to move sounds in Space (e.g. from front-left to behind-right etc.) This works really good (however, DearVR Pro does it bit better, so that's my actual option for this task).


----------



## paulmatthew

ckeddf said:


> From the Liquidsonics website: „Each Cinematic Rooms Professional edition activation license will also unlock the Cinematic Rooms standard edition plug-in.“


I missed that part ! That’s even better . Unfortunately , Seventh Heaven and SH pro are 2 separate products. Is Seventh Heaven part of the Slate Subscription? This might be why


----------



## doctoremmet

Living Fossil said:


> inside of MXXX


Wow haha. I was just reading about that one. DearVRPro, Precedence, MReverbMB, MTurboReverb... I am definitely intrigued by the idea of 2D stereo placement now. Thanks a lot @CGR


----------



## ckeddf

paulmatthew said:


> I missed that part ! That’s even better . Unfortunately , Seventh Heaven and SH pro are 2 separate products. Is Seventh Heaven part of the Slate Subscription? This might be why



It was mentioned somewhere around here or on gearslutz, otherwise I would have missed it, too. So far I haven’t made any use of it, I much prefer the larger preset selection of the pro version. But who knows, it might come in handy.


----------



## jadedsean

So maybe I missed this in the thread but what’s the difference between pro and standard, is it just the surround option?


----------



## Cat

jadedsean said:


> So maybe I missed this in the thread but what’s the difference between pro and standard, is it just the surround option?


Both versions support surround. The Pro version has way more controls and presets though.

EDIT: However, if you do work in surround, the Pro version is much better. It allows you to adjust parameters (like Reverb time, level, Contour, etc) independently for Front speakers, Rear speakers, etc ("planes"). I always like that my reverb in the back is longer and darker. I cannot do this with the Standard version. Also the one preset that I REALLY love is only found in the Pro version.


----------



## doctoremmet

Can’t speak for the Pro version, but Standard sounds very very good. It is a nice addition to 7th Heaven (of which I also have the regular version). I guess soundwise both Standard and Pro sound equally good.


----------



## jadedsean

Cat said:


> Both versions support surround. The Pro version has way more controls and presets though.
> 
> EDIT: However, if you do work in surround, the Pro version is much better. It allows you to adjust parameters (like Reverb time, level, Contour, etc) independently for Front speakers, Rear speakers, etc ("planes"). I always like that my reverb in the back is longer and darker. I cannot do this with the Standard version. Also the one preset that I REALLY love is only found in the Pro version.


Cool thanks for the info, I don’t currently work in surround so it’s not something I’ll use. As far as extra controls I’m sure it is possible to shape the sound using other plugins. I think I’ll go for the standard for now.


----------



## doctoremmet

jadedsean said:


> Cool thanks for the info, I don’t currently work in surround so it’s not something I’ll use. As far as extra controls I’m sure it is possible to shape the sound using other plugins. I think I’ll go for the standard for now.


Soundwise I think you’ll like it very much.


----------



## KEM

I haven’t been able to fully gel with this reverb yet, maybe I’m just too used to the very big, modulated sound of the Valhalla stuff because this one sounds small and dry to me, I’ll mess around with it more but as of right now I don’t know if I can really get into the sound.


----------



## Will Wilson

Playing with the trial of standard at the moment. Is there a go to preset for film music that I should be using as a starting point. I’ve been using Valhalla room up until now.


----------



## KEM

Will Wilson said:


> Playing with the trial of standard at the moment. Is there a go to preset for film music that I should be using as a starting point. I’ve been using Valhalla room up until now.



Same, I want to hear what other people are using and getting good sounds with, I love the very big modulated sound of Valhalla Room and want to see if I can get something similar out of this


----------



## KEM

I caved in and bought it...


----------



## InLight-Tone

Combine the two, "double dip"...


----------



## KEM

InLight-Tone said:


> Combine the two, "double dip"...



Might buy Seventh Heaven and do that actually... but after spending time with Cinematic Rooms vs Valhalla I’ve noticed it’s wayyyy cleaner, my tracks have so much more space now and everything breathes better


----------



## quickbrownf0x

InLight-Tone said:


> Combine the two, "double dip"...


George, you can't double-dip; that's like putting your whole mouth right in the dip! 
* cue Seinfeld theme.


----------



## Sunny Schramm

I have the standard version of SH - its only their Engine Version 1 and no none-linear algos. Do you use SH (or CR) as your "main" reverb for orchestral and other organic instruments?

Should I upgrade to SH PRO for the better algos and better presets or maybe sell it and go for CR? Or should I go for Valhalla Room and VintageVerb for much less money but also "good" reverbs and spend the rest in new libraries? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## KEM

Sunny Schramm said:


> I have the standard version of SH - its only their Engine Version 1 and no none-linear algos. Do you use SH (or CR) as your "main" reverb for orchestral and other organic instruments?
> 
> Should I upgrade to SH PRO for the better algos and better presets or maybe sell it and go for CR? Or should I go for Valhalla Room and VintageVerb for much less money but also "good" reverbs and spend the rest in new libraries? 🤷‍♂️



After buying Cinematic Rooms I will NOT being going back to Valhalla Room, I love the Valhalla stuff so much for synths, sound design, or anything that’s supposed to sound unnatural, but in the context of orchestral production they tend to build up too much and sound like mud, even when you tame it down a lot, but Cinematic Rooms is ultra clean and just sits in a mix so much better. Highly recommend sticking with the Liquidsonics stuff


----------



## Fitz

KEM said:


> After buying Cinematic Rooms I will NOT being going back to Valhalla Room, I love the Valhalla stuff so much for synths, sound design, or anything that’s supposed to sound unnatural, but in the context of orchestral production they tend to build up too much and sound like mud, even when you tame it down a lot, but Cinematic Rooms is ultra clean and just sits in a mix so much better. Highly recommend sticking with the Liquidsonics stuff


How have you broken out your FX channels with CR Pro? I bought it and have had a lot of fun building different reverbs for the orchestra sections


----------



## Marsen

KEM said:


> After buying Cinematic Rooms I will NOT being going back to Valhalla Room




+1 @Sunny Schramm 

If you wanna use it for Orchestra, CR is super clean.
Imho better then SH.
Valhalla is not first choice for Orchestra unless for Hybrid Sounddesign. 

I actually prefer a combination of Lexicon 480 or 224 and CR.
Not to forget Nimbus. I think, it's working very well with Orchestra too.


----------



## KEM

Marsen said:


> +1 @Sunny Schramm
> 
> If you wanna use it for Orchestra, CR is super clean.
> Imho better then SH.
> Valhalla is not first choice for Orchestra unless for Hybrid Sounddesign.
> 
> I actually prefer a combination of Lexicon 480 or 224 and CR.
> Not to forget Nimbus. I think, it's working very well with Orchestra too.



It’s insanely clean, that’s what I really love about it, Valhalla is wonderful for stuff that’s supposed to sound dense and huge, but with a full orchestra that builds up way too much and just becomes mud, CR doesn’t have that problem at all


----------



## C.Franzén

KEM said:


> It’s insanely clean, that’s what I really love about it, Valhalla is wonderful for stuff that’s supposed to sound dense and huge, but with a full orchestra that builds up way too much and just becomes mud, CR doesn’t have that problem at all



that's true, I still find myself reaching for a combination of vintage valhalla / blackhole and echoboy´s space echo when going for a really washed out synth-sound (Y) 
But for orchestral, Cinematic Rooms have been a joy to work with so far.


----------



## KEM

C.Franzén said:


> that's true, I still find myself reaching for a combination of vintage valhalla / blackhole and echoboy´s space echo when going for a really washed out synth-sound (Y)
> But for orchestral, Cinematic Rooms have been a joy to work with so far.



Completely the same for me, for sound design, synths, and solo instruments a bit of Valhalla or Blackhole can really give it a ton of space and help it sound huge with just one element, but they aren’t good for tons of stuff at once.


----------



## jononotbono

I finally caved and bought Creative Rooms. Loving it so far! Will likely upgrade it to the Pro version at some point. Anyone got any preferences to settings on different orchestral sample libraries?


----------



## KEM

jononotbono said:


> I finally caved and bought Creative Rooms. Loving it so far! Will likely upgrade it to the Pro version at some point. Anyone got any preferences to settings on different orchestral sample libraries?



I use the Orchestration Hall preset with the reverb time at 2.20 seconds, and it works great for all of my libraries!


----------



## jononotbono

KEM said:


> I use the Orchestration Hall preset with the reverb time at 2.20 seconds, and it works great for all of my libraries!



I’ll give it a go! Cheers man!


----------



## Joël Dollié

Valhalla room is decent but really synthy sounding compared to most more expensive reverbs. The tail is kind of a resonant mess.

It beats fruity reeverb 2 any day of the week though


----------



## jononotbono

Joël Dollié said:


> Valhalla room is decent but really synthy sounding compared to most more expensive reverbs. The tail is kind of a resonant mess.



Yeah man I think so too. I’ve been using Valhalla Reverb’s for a while and I do love them but I do not like them with coloured/character Orchestral Samples. There will never be a time where I don’t have Valhalla ready to use but I’m so happy I’ve got a new alternative now!

Ive also been meaning to buy the Fab Filter Reverb but I might as well buy the whole bundle instead of separately so I haven’t yet. I’m wondering what that reverb is like. From listening to demos, it sounds clean.

Now I’m already thinking about Liquidsonics Seventh Heaven Because if it’s as good quality as Creative Rooms, I’m gonna have to get it!


----------



## kgdrum

jononotbono said:


> Yeah man I think so too. I’ve been using Valhalla Reverb’s for a while and I do love them but I do not like them with coloured/character Orchestral Samples. There will never be a time where I don’t have Valhalla ready to use but I’m so happy I’ve got a new alternative now!
> 
> Ive also been meaning to buy the Fab Filter Reverb but I might as well buy the whole bundle instead of separately so I haven’t yet. I’m wondering what that reverb is like. From listening to demos, it sounds clean.
> 
> Now I’m already thinking about Liquidsonics Seventh Heaven Because if it’s as good quality as Creative Rooms, I’m gonna have to get it!




Seventh Heaven is wonderful as is all of the Liquidsonics product line.
FYI Liquidsonics offers loyalty discounts to their customers so as you start accumulating their products you will get additional discounts.
For example I have all of the Liquidsonics line so I got Cinematic Rooms Pro for something like $112(which in the case of CR gives you both the Pro and regular versions).
Liquidsonics also have very good sales around Black Friday or the Holidays so if you haven’t done so already get on their mailing list. 👍


----------



## jononotbono

kgdrum said:


> Seventh Heaven is wonderful as is all of the Liquidsonics product line.
> FYI Liquidsonics offers loyalty discounts to their customers so as you start accumulating their products you will get additional discounts.
> For example I have all of the Liquidsonics line so I got Cinematic Rooms Pro for something like $112(which in the case of CR gives you both the Pro and regular versions).
> Liquidsonics also have very good sales around Black Friday or the Holidays so if you haven’t done so already get on their mailing list. 👍



Thanks man. Good to know!


----------



## jononotbono

KEM said:


> I use the Orchestration Hall preset with the reverb time at 2.20 seconds, and it works great for all of my libraries!



Is the Orchestration Hall Preset in the Pro Version?

Think I'm about to upgrade to it.


----------



## KEM

jononotbono said:


> Is the Orchestration Hall Preset in the Pro Version?
> 
> Think I'm about to upgrade to it.



Could be, I went for the Pro right off the bat so I honestly have no idea which presents are exclusive.


----------



## jononotbono

KEM said:


> Could be, I went for the Pro right off the bat so I honestly have no idea which presents are exclusive.



It's gotta be in the Pro Version then as I just double checked and don't have that. Looks like I'll have to upgrade!


----------



## KEM

jononotbono said:


> It's gotta be in the Pro Version then as I just double checked and don't have that. Looks like I'll have to upgrade!



Definitely worth it in my opinion!! I’m loving this reverb, no chance of me ever going back


----------



## jononotbono

KEM said:


> Definitely worth it in my opinion!! I’m loving this reverb, no chance of me ever going back



Yeah I just upgraded. I should have just bought the Pro version from the start. It's amazing. Just need to learn and understand what all options and settings are now!


----------



## Petter Rong

I find the default Avery Hall to be better preset than any other reverb I've owned. $200 upgrade just to get my hands on another hall preset seems a bit steep, I probably won't tinker with all the advanced features


----------



## KEM

jononotbono said:


> Yeah I just upgraded. I should have just bought the Pro version from the start. It's amazing. Just need to learn and understand what all options and settings are now!



Try out the settings I gave you and let me know what you think! I’m still experimenting myself but I keep going back to those settings


----------



## ckeddf

jononotbono said:


> Yeah I just upgraded. I should have just bought the Pro version from the start. It's amazing. Just need to learn and understand what all options and settings are now!



You might want to check out the blog on the LiquidSonics website. I found the posts about the underlying technology and concepts very helpful.


----------



## jononotbono

ckeddf said:


> You might want to check out the blog on the LiquidSonics website. I found the posts about the underlying technology and concepts very helpful.



I'll check them out! Thanks man.

I did read this Pro Tools Expert review last night before upgrading (I didn't just upgrade because it has more presets) and the pro version has some great features that make it worth buying (in my opinion). I'm going to try it out on an Atmos system at the studio I currently work at very soon. Looking forward to that!

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pr...everb-purpose-built-for-the-post-professional


----------



## ckeddf

jononotbono said:


> I'm going to try it out on an Atmos system at the studio I currently work at very soon. Looking forward to that!



I’d expect that will be a lot of fun. I really like this reverb, even just for stereo. The great sound aside, it has just the right amount of control without being overwhelming.


----------



## Damarus

Okay - Thoughts on CR vs Altiverb? Or is this more of a "use them together" situation?


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## babylonwaves

Damarus said:


> Okay - Thoughts on CR vs Altiverb? Or is this more of a "use them together" situation?


different beasts.


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## doctoremmet

Damarus said:


> Okay - Thoughts on CR vs Altiverb? Or is this more of a "use them together" situation?


I guess. One is algorithmic and the other a convolution reverb. Both are held in high esteem. I guess there are plenty of use cases for them together. They are definitely not mutually exclusive, nor very similar (I think. Disclaimer: I do not own or use Altiverb).


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## Damarus

Definitely. I already had my eye on Seventh Heaven standard, just wondering if the funds would be better put towards CR at some point


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## doctoremmet

Damarus said:


> Definitely. I already had my eye on Seventh Heaven standard, just wondering if the funds would be better put towards CR at some point


Gotcha! I have both 7H and CR in the core versions, but I am so happy with 7H that I have hardly used CR yet... For
€69 it has been one of my most used purchases. So should you just get that one, I bet you’d be very happy with it.


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## dgburns

Damarus said:


> Okay - Thoughts on CR vs Altiverb? Or is this more of a "use them together" situation?



Altiverb has it’s uses, but this new CR is better for my needs. I would use Alltiverb more when I’m looking for a unique space. CR is your overall reverb that flushes out the 5.1 space.

I’m still demoing it, and I must admit in some case, I find Verberate Immersive brighter and livelier, but CR is one great reverb. It doesn’t suffer from the phasing issues you’d find in the Altiverb impulses.


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## muziksculp

Hi,

Is Liquid Sonics Cinematic Rooms (Standard) edition CPU Friendly ? 

I'm thinking of getting it in the near future, do they have Sale Prices at some point ? 

It's $199. regular price 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## muziksculp

Is the Standard version missing key features that the Pro version offers, even if I'm just doing Stereo work, no surround needed ? Are the missing features crucial to get better reverb quality ? 

These are the Pro Parameters missing from the Standard version :

- Surround plane parameter editing
- Reverb echo
- Enhanced reflection engine
- Width control
- Crossfeed disparity definition


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## Marsen

muziksculp said:


> Is the Standard version missing key features that the Pro version offers, even if I'm just doing Stereo work, no surround needed ? Are the missing features crucial to get better reverb quality ?
> 
> These are the Pro Parameters missing from the Standard version :
> 
> - Surround plane parameter editing
> - Reverb echo
> - Enhanced reflection engine
> - Width control
> - Crossfeed disparity definition



CR Standard has the same core and should sound the same.
Pro has much more flexibility in tweaking (I own standard).
You should be fine with standard, using stereo.

No cpu issues here. Not real low but absolut ok.


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## muziksculp

Marsen said:


> CR Standard has the same core and should sound the same.
> Pro has much more flexibility in tweaking (I own standard).
> You should be fine with standard, using stereo.
> 
> No cpu issues here. Not real low but absolut ok.



Hi Marsen,

That's very helpful feedback. Thank You. 

I wonder if the more flexibility in tweaking that the Pro version offers, due to the additional parameters one can tweak, is also a key in obtaining better quality reverbs ? Maybe, maybe not, I have no clue. 

Anyways.. I'm going to get the Standard version, there is always an option to upgrade to the pro if needed in the future, but I hope there isn't a need to do that. 

Do you consider Cinematic Rooms (Standard) the best quality reverb plugin you have for orchestral/acoustic mixing ?


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## Marsen

muziksculp said:


> Do you consider Cinematic Rooms (Standard) the best quality reverb plugin you have for orchestral/acoustic mixing ?



Yes!

I mean, i love my 480-L, 224, Nimbus & Bricasti Convu, but in terms of clearness, tail, naturalism (you not always want naturalism) it is also better than Spaces II, Seven Heaven or fabfilter R (though i really love all these reverbs). 
I think with this all named verbs, you can do professional mixes.

But in the end, imho CR sounds just fantastic.


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## method1

For me the extras in PRO are totally worth it, especially the space and character sections in the ER.
Standard is perfectly fine but if you like to tweak stuff the pro version adds a lot of extra possibilities.

Also if presets are a thing, some of the nicer presets are in pro.

If you own anything else from LS you should have a discount coupon you can use to take the edge off!


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## muziksculp

Marsen said:


> Yes!
> 
> I mean, i love my 480-L, 224, Nimbus & Bricasti Convu, but in terms of clearness, tail, naturalism (you not always want naturalism) it is also better than Spaces II, Seven Heaven or fabfilter R (though i really love all these reverbs).
> I think with this all named verbs, you can do professional mixes.
> 
> But in the end, imho CR sounds just fantastic.



Ok, I went for the Standard version of Cinematic Rooms. Played with it for two minutes, and I'm already impressed ! Thanks for helping me decide. 

I also have other great sounding reverbs, but the transparent character of this reverb is something else, I also have a Bricasti M7 (the hardware), which I love, and is also super transparent and smooth. I didn't buy Seveth Heaven, but really like the R4 by Exponential audio for multi applications, also have 2C Audio Breeze 2, which is very nice, also love using Eventide's Black Hole for huge ambiences, Valhalla Reverbs ,... plus other misc. reverbs.


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## muziksculp

method1 said:


> For me the extras in PRO are totally worth it, especially the space and character sections in the ER.
> Standard is perfectly fine but if you like to tweak stuff the pro version adds a lot of extra possibilities.
> 
> Also if presets are a thing, some of the nicer presets are in pro.
> 
> If you own anything else from LS you should have a discount coupon you can use to take the edge off!



Hi method1,

Thanks for the feedback. 

I will look into upgrading to the Pro version in the future. For now, I think the Standard version is good enough for my needs. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Marsen

I'm happy, I could help.


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## muziksculp

Marsen said:


> I'm happy, I could help.



Yes, Thanks again. That was very helpful. 

Actually I found very few Cinematic Rooms (Standard) users to provide any type of feedback, so I'm glad you decided to provide some feedback here since you are using the Standard version.


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## kgdrum

muziksculp said:


> Hi method1,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I will look into upgrading to the Pro version in the future. For now, I think the Standard version is good enough for my needs.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp




fwiw Liquidsonics usually has a very good sale BF or the Holidays with additional discounts that can be applied if you have other Liquidsonics products.

👍


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## paulmatthew

Does anyone know if you use your discount coupons can they be used again for a purchase later on? By this I mean is it like an ongoing discount depending on what you've bought?


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## Marsen

As an owner of one of their products, you get an discount on other products.


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## Zanshin

Marsen said:


> As an owner of one of their products, you get an discount on other products.



OK, yes, good.

Let's say I want to buy both standard Cinematic Rooms and standard Seventh Heaven. What's the best order to buy them in to save money?


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## Marsen

Zanshin said:


> OK, yes, good.
> 
> Let's say I want to buy both standard Cinematic Rooms and standard Seventh Heaven. What's the best order to buy them in to save money?




As far as I know, as CR standard owner, you get 20% off against any other purchase.
As SH standard owner, you get 5%. (this may changed)


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## muziksculp

I got a 20% coupon by requesting one. I can apply it to upgrade from the Standard to the Pro version of Cinematic Rooms. ($160) instead of ($200), it's a small discount, I'm hoping the extra investment into pro is worth the added features for customizing the Reverb to taste. The Standard version is great, but kind of limited with respect to customizing. 

I thought I will post this here to see if you think the Pro version will make me happier.

Is it worth it to Update to CR Pro version ?

i.e. The *Pro version* offers these additional parameters to tweak :

*For Reflections :*

* Room Definition
* Equalization
* Mod
* Space
* Character
* X-Feed
* Depth Control

*For Reverberation :*

* Shape
* Echo
* Undulation
* X-Feed
* Mod
* Depth Control

Non of the above parameters are available for editing in the Standard Version.


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## Zanshin

You can demo the pro version. Nothing like trying it yourself.


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## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> You can demo the pro version. Nothing like trying it yourself.



Thanks for the tip. 

Do you know what the limitations are of demoing the Pro version ?


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## Zanshin

AFAIK none, it's a 14 day trial.


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## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> AFAIK none, it's a 14 day trial.



Yes, that's right. I just checked. 

They have an iLok license code good for 14 days, After 14 days a full license is required to continue using the plug-in(s). 

That's exactly what I will be doing, and decide if it's worth the upgrade price.


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## yiph2

What's your favourite presets for CR? I'm currently testing both 7H and CR but I feel like CR is a bit clearer although it gives you a nice tail.


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## fiction

I tend to use the Large Hall with some modifications on size, pre-delay and eq. 

I really like both 7H and CR for different purposes, glad I have both.


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## Jeremy Spencer

I also like the Large Hall, and also the default Amethyst Hall with a few tweaks. I've been using 7th Heaven and CR (both standard) for all of my mixes since purchasing. They are both wonderful.


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## jononotbono

I upgraded from standard and was glad I did. It’s so much more comprehensive. I love this reverb.


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## Jeremy Spencer

jononotbono said:


> I upgraded from standard and was glad I did. It’s so much more comprehensive. I love this reverb.


If they ever have the upgrade on sale, I will get it for sure. When I demo’d Pro, it sounded more spacious, and there’s some nice presets.


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## Zanshin

Brother, have you heard the good news? CRP has descended from the sky and blessed us with clarity and space with our sounds.

I ended up demoing CRP based from this thread. I bought 7HP first because I found a used deal on it first. It was not enough, I remembered how sweet and unobtrusive CRP was. Didn't stop looking until it came up for sale. I think I got both for the intro prices. I think I am up to 56% discount and still need like 3 or so things.

I try other reverbs, some are really good. Sonsig for example. But CRP has that "something".


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## Trash Panda

CRP includes Cinematic Rooms Standard if that twists your rubber arm any. HD Cart at Reverb Foundry is also very, very good and gives you a coupon that stacks with others on the LiquidSonics website.


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## vitocorleone123

Trash Panda said:


> CRP includes Cinematic Rooms Standard if that twists your rubber arm any. HD Cart at Reverb Foundry is also very, very good and gives you a coupon that stacks with others on the LiquidSonics website.


Yep! I have HD Cart and Reverberate 3 = 30% future discount.


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## Junolab

vitocorleone123 said:


> Here it is over a year later from when I first posted about these plugins from Liquidsonics. I'm doing another demo of Rooms Pro v Rooms Standard, working in stereo on musical instruments. I have to say that Rooms Standard sounds good! Very good. But... I can get to a very similar place with R4 and/or Nimbus without straining myself. I'm not sure it's better than those, just different.
> 
> Rooms Pro, however, has a little something special to it. It's not immediately noticeable, but, time after time, even on the same presets, it's more realistic and also a touch darker, and it, I don't know, breathes(?) differently. I'm no reverb expert, and I've tried to dial in R4 or Nimbus and I get at least as satisfactory results as with Rooms Standard, but I can't figure out how to match Rooms Pro. Plucks, strings, keys, pads, snares, kicks, drums, orchestral sections... Rooms Pro, even in stereo no surround, has something special.
> 
> I don't think I'd buy Rooms Standard at this point. I may or may not have the $BF-30% (my discount rate for Liquidsonics currently) for Rooms Pro, but it's very, very high on my list to consider. I'd say that Standard is a good reverb that's maybe a little pricey at full list given the competition. Rooms Pro is also pricey, but has some "magic" to it that makes it feel worth considering even at full price - if one is desperate. I'll wait for a sale!
> 
> I'm very much looking forward to what Matt's forged in the ol' Reverb Foundry first, though....


Pro and Standard uses the same algorithm, so what you're hearing is in your own head and not the sound of the plugin. At least unless you're tweaking some pro-only features to a result you like better. Great plugin thought


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## AdamKmusic

Thinking about picking this up, do LS normally do Black Friday sales?


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## vitocorleone123

AdamKmusic said:


> Thinking about picking this up, do LS normally do Black Friday sales?


Yes. And their loyalty discounts stack.


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## quickbrownf0x

Not to sound like an elitist bastard, but I think it's worth every penny AND you're helping Liquidsonics make it even better. They're a tiny company (just two mates), very similar to guys like Fabfilter, so me personally - I don't have any problem with supporting something like that.

Also, I'm pretty sure Cinematic Rooms will be part of your main template once you've heard it, so there's another good reason to maybe just go ahead and get it (full price).

But you know, that's just me.  I totally get it why one'd look for a sale , right @Markrs ?


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## Junolab

vitocorleone123 said:


> No, it’s the Pro only features making the small but enjoyable difference I’m hearing. Otherwise the features would be pointless to include, right? Why pay more for the same thing with more controls and more features if it sounds identical? I certainly don’t try to spend the most money possible. Pretty sure it’s the other way around, though my credit card may argue the opposite is true…..


...because it gives you more control to change it to your own liking (or a requirement for a dialogue in a movie scene). You stated, "even on the same presets..." which doesn't really correlate with Liquidsonics own text on their product page; "Sharing the same reverb and reflection engines as the professional edition". But no need to go into a virtual fight, just trying to make sure the readers don't think they get an inferior product by buying the Standard version (I own the Pro too, but could properly have managed just as well with Standard)


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## Zanshin

Hmmm the website also says (about the pro version):

Surround plane parameter editing
Reflection and reverb chorus engines
Reverb echo
Enhanced reflection engine
Width control
Crossfeed disparity definition


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## Rob Elliott

Funny the reference about Fab Filter (I agree) - because CRP was the only thing for me that pushed FFR (reverb) off my template.


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## Junolab

vitocorleone123 said:


> Yet you keep disagreeing with what I’m saying. I’ll flatly say it: working in stereo, the standard version doesn’t sound the same as the pro version on the same material with presets by LiquidSonics with the same name, but the difference is small. In no way, shape, or form did I say the standard version is anything but a great reverb.
> 
> To me, that difference makes all the difference, because there’s a lot of great reverbs out there already and I don’t find the standard version to be any better than those other great reverbs - just a little different. For example, I don’t find it to sound any more realistic of a room sound than I can get with Nimbus. But I absolutely hear a difference with Pro that sounds even better and more natural than both of those. And, for that reason, despite having several great reverbs already, I’m considering the Pro version.


I never stated that you said that the Standard version wasn't great. I pointed out that you said that the Pro-version sounded better...

So to make it simple I wrote Matt (Mr. Liquidsonics) this: "_If I choose one of the presets in Standard and the same preset in Pro, its going to be 100% identical?_"

and his answer was:

"_Yes unless there’s a bug I don’t know about or I messed up a preset conversion somehow, they’re randomly modulated though and the standard you can’t turn off the mod, so you’d never be able to do a full A/B which could fuel this kind of discussion since you’ll never get a null test to prove anything one way or another_."


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## KEM

I love this reverb, it’s the permanent orchestral reverb in my template!!


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## Junolab

vitocorleone123 said:


> Cool. Apparently I'm imagining the difference I'm very much hearing. Class dismissed. Oh, wait.... There's a different set of controls that do things to the sound. I'm sure they don't do anything and were included for no reason.
> 
> Can you please move on from this? You don't have to believe me or put in the effort yourself to see if YOU hear a difference. My brain clearly wants to spend $400 for the Pro that sounds the same as the $200.  In the mean time, I'll just put you on ignore.


Feel free to block me. I'm not sure why you argue as I'm copy-pasting in the response from the guy who actually developed the plugin we're discussing. I'm just happy you want to spend the extra money which Matt definitely deserves. I'm not sure why you talk of the additional controls in the Pro as I never once said that those controls didn't do anything.

Hopefully, other readers here can understand what I'm trying to say since you obviously don't.


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## Martin S

vitocorleone123 said:


> Cool. Apparently I'm imagining the difference I'm very much hearing. Class dismissed. Oh, wait.... There's a different set of controls that do things to the sound. I'm sure they don't do anything and were included for no reason.
> 
> Can you please move on from this? You don't have to believe me or put in the effort yourself to see if YOU hear a difference. My brain clearly wants to spend $400 for the Pro that sounds the same as the $200.  In the mean time, I'll just put you on ignore.


So…you don’t believe what the creator of Cinematic Rooms himself (Matt Hill) is saying about his own product. And when someone points that out to you, you get miffed and wants to put that person on ignore?!?…


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## Henu

Uhm....what?


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## Junolab

vitocorleone123 said:


> So those extra controls in the product don't do anything?


Yes, it gives you the ability to make tweaks that you might not be able to do in Standard (where its fixed levels/values). It's not like audio is routed from button to button... It's quite common to build one product and then create a simpler version where a lot of stuff happens "in the background", which you then sell at a cheaper price-point. Usually as an entry for a later upgrade.


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## KEM

Ladies, ladies… calm down, the internet is no place for fighting


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## Junolab

vitocorleone123 said:


> EDIT: I don't have a full grasp of the technical reverb vocabulary, but I believe the difference I'm hearing is in the behavior and quality of the early reflections and then how they translate into the reverb tail. Again, this is what I hear. You may hear differently.








It's not about what anyone hears or believes. It's about the guy, who developed the plugin, who says that there is no difference in the quality. Only in the controls and options. 

This is not Trump-land (or I hope not). Alternative facts ain't a thing...


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## Martin S

vitocorleone123 said:


> So those extra controls and features in the Pro version don't do anything? I suppose I can save money after all. Whew! I apologize for liking the sound of more expensive version better. I clearly am 100% imagining everything and will always believe what I read as opposed to what I hear. That's a very valuable skill when making music.
> 
> EDIT: I don't have a full grasp of the technical reverb vocabulary, but I believe the difference I'm hearing is in the behavior and quality of the early reflections and then how they translate into the reverb tail. Again, this is what I hear. You may hear differently.


I think you need to read everything @Junolab wrote, once again… And the reply he got from Matt, too…


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## vitocorleone123

Maybe I'm imagining it. Maybe I really want to spend more money and my brain is tricking me. Maybe it's the randomizations. Maybe it's Matt not actually fully matching presets between versions causing differences despite the same engines (and despite the website saying something different).

Whatever the reason, I'm 100% standing by my ears (as awkward and uncomfortable as that sounds) on hearing a difference between the versions, but I also don't think it's worth bothering over any further, and certainly don't want this to be a distraction from anything positive about the genuinely great sounding LiquidSonics Cinematic Rooms reverbs, so I deleted my posts.


----------



## vitocorleone123

With the loyalty codes and the sale, I bought Tai Chi and then Cinematic Rooms Pro. 

* I like HD Cart as an effect reverb when I'm looking for Lexion style swirl. Not all the time.

* I think Tai Chi may be the first reverb I'll reach for from now on because of the combination of features, overall usability (still learning how the features interact), and lush sound - I'm typically working with synths. It's less swirly than HD Cart but still lush, clean but not as perfect as CRP.

* Cinematic Rooms Pro, even just in stereo, is just so lovely I think I could listen to it all day, playing this sound and that. Simply stunning - it can almost bring tears to my eyes when paired with some of my favorite synth sounds. More complex than the other 2 listed here, but an amazing set of presets that'll help me learn over the coming year(s).

I see TC+CRP as my go-to combo primary reverbs, depending on what's needed. Matt has taken over my reverb folder.

I've (sadly) uninstalled R4 and Nimbus, when this combo replaces, because I've had some serious issues with them in Studio One Pro, and iZotope has abandoned them as individual products - yet Neoverb fell short of both, to my ears.


----------



## cedricm

vitocorleone123 said:


> With the loyalty codes and the sale, I bought Tai Chi and then Cinematic Rooms Pro.
> 
> * I like HD Cart as an effect reverb when I'm looking for Lexion style swirl. Not all the time.
> 
> * I think Tai Chi may be the first reverb I'll reach for from now on because of the combination of features, overall usability (still learning how the features interact), and lush sound - I'm typically working with synths. It's less swirly than HD Cart but still lush, clean but not as perfect as CRP.
> 
> * Cinematic Rooms Pro, even just in stereo, is just so lovely I think I could listen to it all day, playing this sound and that. Simply stunning - it can almost bring tears to my eyes when paired with some of my favorite synth sounds. More complex than the other 2 listed here, but an amazing set of presets that'll help me learn over the coming year(s).
> 
> I see TC+CRP as my go-to combo primary reverbs, depending on what's needed. Matt has taken over my reverb folder.
> 
> I've (sadly) uninstalled R4 and Nimbus, when this combo replaces, because I've had some serious issues with them in Studio One Pro, and iZotope has abandoned them as individual products - yet Neoverb fell short of both, to my ears.


That's pretty strange. I've yet to encounter a problem with R4 in Studio One (on Windows).

I agree though, I wish Izotope took better care of these reverbs. It seems they just bought the technology to integrate into their own products and don't really care about Exponential Audio customers.


----------



## Zanshin

vitocorleone123 said:


> I see TC+CRP as my go-to combo primary reverbs, depending on what's needed. Matt has taken over my reverb folder.


Me too. I'm going to test VSS4 HD a bit more today but I just don't see it edging out either of those too, especially with the CPU hit.


----------



## vitocorleone123

cedricm said:


> That's pretty strange. I've yet to encounter a problem with R4 in Studio One (on Windows).
> 
> I agree though, I wish Izotope took better care of these reverbs. It seems they just bought the technology to integrate into their own products and don't really care about Exponential Audio customers.


The most recent update to S1 allowed me to use them again, but I just don't trust it. Other than crashing the DAW, they twice created an almost ear-damaging squeal of digital noise (could be when they were bringing down the DAW). That really caused pain that lasted awhile and I had to stop doing anything musical for the day.


----------



## Russell Anderson

I really love how usable CRP is. It’s like all of the complexity of some of my favorite reverbs packed into a single cpu-efficient and honestly pretty easy-to-use package. The ERs are so wonderful to setup and sound excellent, and all of the distance/mix settings work so seamlessly, I feel so much better about high wetness values with this reverb. It does its job remarkably well. Still have to sink my teeth into 7HP and Tai Chi.

For transparent, it’s going to be awhile before I have VSR S24, CRP, Nimbus/R4 and IRCAM Verb effectively compartmentalized in my brain, they all do the job really well with their own little twists and workflows (or lack thereof, IRCAM…) which equals a lot of time spent auditioning them for the same task. Even Sonsig is remarkably good sometimes as a more transparent reverb. Eventually I’ll get some sense and sell some of them… recoup some money and stop spending so much energy deciding between which .15% difference is my favorite 😵‍💫

whoa, my Apple emoji turned into _two_ emojis


----------

