# NI Session Strings and Horns Pro vs Symphony Series?



## brentm (Jan 30, 2016)

Someone posted this question on GS and never got an answer. I told them to post it here as they'd probably have a better chance, but they didn't want to register for another forum, so I thought I'd ask since I have the same question.

If you're working primarily in the songwriting genre and producing your own material, which can sometimes include orchestral arrangements, is it worth the money to invest in the symphonic series? I've listened to the demos and some other SC examples people have composed.

I'm only interested in the NI products as I have KU10 and so the crossgrade makes them affordable for me. Other string/brass libraries are out of the question.

As mentioned, I have KU10, plus the Embertone solo strings and trumpet.

I realize this is kind of a vague question. I'm hoping other self-producing songwriters might chime in. Thanks.


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## P.N. (Jan 30, 2016)

Hi, brentm.
I do not own Symphonic series products. But i do have the Sessions products, so here's my opinion on them.
About the strings:
Some people don't like SSP. And i can understand why. They really need some detailed massaging (or careful while playing) to sound just right and they sound better in the lower/medium dynamics, otherwise they can get a little "wacky". 
They can produce orchestral moments on their own, but they cannot replace a full blown orchestra library, because they're not suppose to.
They can, however, be used as smaller sections for that purpose (i've been thinking about posting an example, but i never got around to do it, maybe i'll still do it after this).

Horns are the same. Not designed to do orchestral moments per se, but they can work great with bigger (orchestra oriented) brass libraries.
They also provide some nice essential articulations and a smart voice option that's really cool.

In a cinematic orchestral jazz context (John Barry style), Session Strings and Horns Pro can be used to great effect without the aid of other libraries. That's for sure. 

So, to answer your question - for orchestral arrangements (not epic trailer music, or full orchestral soundtrack), i say yes - Session Strings and Horns will serve you just right.


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## Zhao Shen (Jan 30, 2016)

brentm said:


> Someone posted this question on GS and never got an answer. I told them to post it here as they'd probably have a better chance, but they didn't want to register for another forum, so I thought I'd ask since I have the same question.
> 
> If you're working primarily in the songwriting genre and producing your own material, which can sometimes include orchestral arrangements, is it worth the money to invest in the symphonic series? I've listened to the demos and some other SC examples people have composed.
> 
> ...


These products fill two completely different niches. Session Strings were designed for pop songs, and are thus not entirely realistic. Session Horns is just a brass band - pop, jazz, whatever. The Symphony Series is meant for orchestral music - something more along the lines of classical music or film/game soundtracks.

Keep in mind that just because these libraries were designed for a purpose doesn't mean they can't do anything else - they just have a tone and feature set that better suit the intended function. To figure out which one you want I'd ask myself "When I write songs, do I envision a full symphony orchestra as accompaniment, or just some chamber strings and a brass band?"


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## bap_la_so_1 (Jan 30, 2016)

Session series mainly aim for pop or more contemporary music. They are not designed for orchestral purposes. The symphonic series is.


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## Arnel007 (Jan 30, 2016)

brentm said:


> If you're working primarily in the songwriting genre and producing your own material, which can sometimes include orchestral arrangements


In this case I would recommend you The symphonic series. By experience it's easier to tweak an orchestral library to get pop sounds than getting orchestral sounds from a pop library. I can tell you so because i did it with VSL Dimension Brass and LASS Strings! NI String Ensemble it's the little brother of LASS Strings (both from Audibro).

Blessings!!!


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## brentm (Jan 31, 2016)

Thanks for everyone's replies. I think I'll keep on with just with the string and brass Pro libraries for now. If there is anyone doing songwriter stuff who bought the Symphony packages I'd be interested in how useful you did or did not find them.


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## ptram (Jan 5, 2017)

During the past few weeks, enticed by the several promotions, I reconsidered the orchestral libraries I own, and the ones I could buy. In the end, I purchased the Komplete 11 Ultimate upgrade because of the Symphony Essentials, and the Siedlaczek Complete Orchestral Collection, to finally own those libraries I've met so many times in my life. I'm still on hold for the VSL SE Vol.1 Strings, but I'm again repelled by the use of a dongle. (Dongles! In 2017! O boy!)

My impression is that Native Instruments are pushing their libraries in particular markets, that are the lucrative markets of composers for EDM (the Maschine series) and TV/videogames (the Komplete series). All other markets are there, but are not considered so important, and therefore relegated in some sort of "Legacy" folder. Let me explain.

Even the basic Kontakt package includes an orchestral library mostly derived by VSL samples. Thes sounds might be old, but they are VSL. They were made to be accurate and extremely well sampled. Sampling technology was already mature. NI did their own programming. Later, they moved the orchestral instruments into the Legacy folder, and reused those samples to create the new, less expressive orchestral library, probably to be used for rougher sketches or less expressive kinds of music.

I finally discovered that you can take the Xfade Legacy instruments, replace the meh reverb in the insert with a convolution effect, do some adjustment here and there, adapt them to your taste, and achieve great things from these sounds. Do you know the impressive demos for the ultramodern Symphony Series? I tried to recreate one of them, without the careful editing and mastering work the demo deserved (VSL/Legacy first, Symphony Essentials as a comparison then):

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/NI-VSL-From-Here.mp3
http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/NI-SE-From-Here.mp3

There is also a small, shamelessly unmusical comparison I did between the VSL-based and Symphony Essentials sounds:

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/NI-VSL.mp3
http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/NI-SE.mp3

You miss several articulations, but the basics are there. No mute, no harmonics – but if you need them, call the Symphony Essentials into service. The biggest missing thing is the legato, but more about this later.

Are the Symphony Essentials better? It depends. I don't think strings and brass to sound good for classical music. They seems to me to be directed to composers of "epic" music, maybe for videogames and TV themes. Since the core sound is the same, I doubt the Symphony Series to be any different.

Yet, I'm not totally sure you can't do with these libraries what you have done with the others: discover they can be used for things NI didn't intended them to. Slowing the attack a bit makes the sound excellent for string pad-type passages. It is an overall bright and aggresive sound, that you can maybe make warmer and gentler by defeating some compression and eq'ing in the inserts. I've yet to experiment enough.

With the Essentials, you still miss legato articulation. (Simulated legato in woodwinds and brass sounds good to me!). SIPS scripts do not seem to work (nor the older or the newer version). I can't even adapt the VSL Legacy legato script to these new sounds. So, do you need a new library?

Not necessarily. You can use Session Strings Pro. NI sells this library for "pop" or "contemporary" works. At the same time, they added ensembles 3&4, in the traditional classical orchestra setup, and with a gentler sound. It is an incredibly expressive, clean, accurate library that works very well with classical chamber pieces. Working with divisi, it can also supply a very credible full string orchestra. They might be only four violins, but they sound as many more, maybe thanks to the two ensembles paired by default.

Session Strings Pro has a lot of articulations. You still miss mutes and harmonics (but Essentials is still there…), but legato – true sampled legato – is there. And I find it a very good and realistic legato. There is also a very good portamento. Glissando is maybe less credible, but I have to experiment more with it. I'll try to post some examples in the next few days.

To a certain extent, Session Horns Pro are similar: they are advertised as jazz or funky instruments, but they can work very well even in modern classical contexts. Layered with the VSL brass, they add strenght and depth. They sound more realistic, to me, than the huge brass sections of the Symphony Essentials library. However, they are more idiomatic than Session Strings Pro.

So, Komplete 11 Ultimate alone gives you:

- VSL, a basic set of good, accurate orchestral sounds to be mostly used for background/harmony parts;
- Symphony Essentials, adding some articulations (like mute and harmonics), and a more aggressive sound for those epic moments;
- Session Strings Pro, adding legato, more flexible divisi writing, a very expressive sound;
- Session Strings Pro's Automator, for realistic repetition;
- Action Strings and Emotive Strings, for programmable staccato and legato orchestral excerpts.
- Session Horns Pro, for realistic, cutting, clean and expressive brass sounds (as solo and small ensembles).

I personally also own the excellent XSample library, including some of the most accurate solo instruments around. (And – do you want that exoteric articulation? It's there, and many more!) And then there is Siedlaczek, that in the past let me compose some of my best pieces; I'll have to see what is there, but at the moment I'm stuck at the messy documentation, and I'm not convinced you can or can't make these sounds shine.

How to blend all the different sources above? Maybe replacing the insert reverbs with similar reverbs? Decreasing the presence of the insert reverb to just a halo in the section mics? And then, blending everything with accurate programming of the sends to the master reverb? I'm still working on this.

Paolo


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## brentm (Jan 5, 2017)

Thanks Paolo for the informative reply...and a year after my post at that!

NI came out with the essentials after my post. So I will be getting the KU11 upgrade when it goes on sale, maybe sooner. I did buy the solo brass last February. Buying KU11 to get the essentials is a good deal for me. Hopefully they will fulfill whatever needs I have for orchestral instruments along with what I already have for the type of music I do. I'll dig into those Legacy instruments some more and try out your suggestions. I have used the Kontakt orchestra stuff quite a bit. They have great tone, even if they are limited in other ways. Good enough for simple melody lines. I've also used SSPRO a lot and appreciate how versatile it can be. I did also get the Emotional Cello and will get the violin when it is released. 

Thanks again for your reply. Good info and ideas to explore.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jan 5, 2017)

I've posted this here before, but in case you don't know, Native Instruments offers free demos of all 5 Symphony Essentials, including the String Ensemble and the Woodwind and Brass Ensembles and Solos.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/symphony-essentials/demo-versions/

These are full downloads of the complete libraries, which you can use anytime for 15 minutes.


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## ptram (Jan 5, 2017)

Ok, I'm trying to layer Session Strings Pro 1&2, Session Strings Pro 3&4, Symphony Essentials String Ensemble. SSP will give clarity and true legato, SESE will add body, meat, lushness. The first try is simply stunning. After editing, I'll let you hear what I could do with these libraries.

Paolo


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## MillsMixx (Jan 5, 2017)

I have the Brass Ensemble demo. I guess I didn't scroll down far enough to see that they had demos for all 5 of the Essential libraries. However I tried downloading the others but only received a link for the solo woodwinds. Nothing in my spam folder either. Anyone else not get all the demos?


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## ptram (Jan 5, 2017)

So, this thread was that old? All considered, it is not surprising that we are still here discussing about these libraries. I guess we have not yet got this new orchestral library (Symphony Series/Essentials), nor the older one (Session Strings Pro). At least, I'm still trying to understand them.

In the meantime, I did a rough assemblage of both libraries, as announced. A conductor would scream "No! No! NO!". I'll take it as a quick reading of the score. Do they sound with some warmth and credibilty, even if with no great expression, clarity and precision?

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/Mahler-IX-Adagio-SSP-SE.m4a

And here is the Session Strings Pro (four ensembles)-only version, including portamento (Violins only):

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/Mahler-IX-Adagio-SSP.m4a

Then, Symphony Essentials alone:

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/Mahler-IX-Adagio-SE.m4a

SSP + Kontakt's VSL Legacy instruments (with SSP adding clarity and legato/portamento):

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/Mahler-IX-Adagio-SSP-KVSL.m4a

Kontakt's VSL Legacy instruments alone:

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/Mahler-IX-Adagio-KVSL.m4a

Siedlaczek's Strings Essentials 2nd Ed. (no legato used in this example) + Advanced Orchestra's Bassoon:

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/Mahler-IX-Adagio-SiedStringsEss.m4a

VSL Special Edition:

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/Mahler-IX-Adagio-VSLse.m4a

VSL Full:

http://www.studio-magazine.com/music/test/Mahler-IX-Adagio-VSL_MIR.m4a

Paolo


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## JPQ (Jan 5, 2017)

MillsMixx said:


> I have the Brass Ensemble demo. I guess I didn't scroll down far enough to see that they had demos for all 5 of the Essential libraries. However I tried downloading the others but only received a link for the solo woodwinds. Nothing in my spam folder either. Anyone else not get all the demos?


I feel when i loaded earlier get only few links and even then only few have working downloader utility and later found they replaced these problematic ones stuff which have lnik iso for similar disk image format. And i also dont found firsttly all libraries. btw saddly they dont have solo strings. and least these work fine my computer makes me think what else works...(i have other stuff which works as well).


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## ptram (Jan 9, 2017)

In the end, I decided that I had to add VSL SE Vol.1/Plus and Vol.2 Woodwinds to my arsenal. Since I like the Kontakt's Legacy VSL content, I guess the newer one will be even better, but still in the same vein (a very versatile orchestra, based on classical principles). I'll have true legato, and the added articulations of the Plus volume will cover almost everything. VLS is on sale this month.

I could profit of the ongoing sale at Best Service (only until today), and also get Emotional Cello, as Brent suggested. It seems to go even further what I have in XSample, and I'm planning a solo piece for cello. I'll try it.

Paolo


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## SoNowWhat? (Jan 9, 2017)

ptram said:


> I could profit of the ongoing sale at Best Service (only until today), and also get Emotional Cello, as Brent suggested. It seems to go even further what I have in XSample, and I'm planning a solo piece for cello. I'll try it.
> 
> Paolo


FYI Best Service sale extended.


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## ptram (Jan 20, 2017)

I added the VSL SE test to the others. The difference with the Native Instruments content is very evident, with the VSL being more transparent/real, with more detail and wider dynamics, and the NI more "in the face", compressed toward the higher dynamic range.

As said somewhere else, VSL requires more work, since all you receive is a set of instrument patches, to be connected to physical controls and carefully mixed. Violins II have to be tricked from Violins I. At the same time, they do sound very good, if you are after a "true" sound.

Most of the other libraries are for immediate satisfaction, and I would say the Symphony Series is in this vein. Not so the Session Strings Pro, that while very produced, can also be made more "naked", and used in the same vein as the VSL.

Paolo


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## ptram (Feb 11, 2018)

With new libraries, and several thousand euros less in my pocket, I could prepare a new version of the short Mahler example. This time, it is with the full VSL and the associated MIR reverb. The score was edited to match the new articulations and their behaviour. It sounds obviously different than the original version.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/mahler-ix-adagio-vsl-cc1-mp3.11820/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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