# Deafening parasite sound when using CinePiano in FL Studio 20



## Kubler (Apr 26, 2020)

Hi everyone,

I've been dealing with an very annoying issue for some time. Occasionally, when stoping the playback, FL Studio will suddenly output an *extremely* loud sound, that will not stop unless I close the software or shut down my audio device. It's a simple waveform but, and I can't stress this enough, sufficiently loud to be absolutely fucking ear-piercing. For some reason it shows up in the audio indicator bar at the top of FL's GUI, but the master track of the mixer doesn't pick it up.

The issue seems to have something to do with CinePiano. I can't formally prove it, but it occured only in projects where I used this library and replacing the instrument with another piano was a successful solution so far.

I work on FL Studio 20 64bits on W10.

I would be grateful for people manifesting if they encountered something similar. Google gave me no probant results about FL nor CinePiano, and the library is currently unusable for me as I don't want to dread having my eardrums punctured every time I stop my playback…

Thanks in advance !


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## thevisi0nary (Apr 26, 2020)

Kubler said:


> Deafening Parasite


*_Jots down for band or song name*_
Sounds like some kind of feedback loop, not sure how that would make sense with a specific kontakt patch though.


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## MichaelVakili (Apr 26, 2020)

I don't think it is CinePiano - I had similar problem with something else, but I haven't been using FL Studio for more than a year and I can't remember what was causing it and in my case was huge low frequency spike. Also I remember restarting the plugin worked, or closing the program, anything else wasn't solving the problem.


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## Peter Satera (Apr 27, 2020)

It can be due to multiple things. Automation with init on, could be resetting volume changes everytime you stop the project, ramping volume up. What happens is it ramps a momentary tail of the instrument. 

Can I see a video? Also check cinepiano itself. In a project alone.


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## Sapphire (Apr 27, 2020)

creativeforge said:


> @MichaelVakili - can you check your PM (conversations, the envelope icon on top). Thanks!


I think it would be advantageous to solve this in public, as others might run into this as well.


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## Kubler (Apr 27, 2020)

Thank you for your suggestions. If it's a feedback of some sort, it shows some weird symptoms, don't you think ? Happening only when stopping the playback, not showing up in the master track… unless it's happening whithin FL's audio system, which is not reassuring.


MichaelVakili said:


> in my case was huge low frequency spike


It's definitely not low frequency here, it kind of sounds like a sine or triangle tone in the sixth octave or something, but loud af. I guess that next time it occurs, deleting CinePiano from the project and see what happens would be a possible test to see whether I pinpointed it correctly. I should have thought of that.


Peter Satera said:


> It can be due to multiple things. Automation with init on, could be resetting volume changes everytime you stop the project, ramping volume up. What happens is it ramps a momentary tail of the instrument.
> 
> Can I see a video? Also check cinepiano itself. In a project alone.


There's no volume automation in the project yet, only a cc64 for the piano's pedal and some panoramics and plugin wetnesses.

I'm going to copy the project, load CinePiano back into it and try to reproduce the issue. The problem is that I can work on my music for hours before it suddenly happens out of nowhere when stopping the playback, so I'd rather look for it in an environment where I know something made it happen before I move on to isolated tests. I will record a video so you guys can see (and hear, god help you) what's going on…


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## Sapphire (Apr 27, 2020)

Does the cursor jump from a point with automation (any) to a point without automation as this happens (on stop)? If so, does clicking on a random position (no need to click play etc.) where the instrument is automated solve the problem (sound stops)? If you have multiple automations, try for each one individually.


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## Peter Satera (Apr 27, 2020)

Kubler said:


> Thank you for your suggestions. If it's a feedback of some sort, it shows some weird symptoms, don't you think ? Happening only when stopping the playback, not showing up in the master track… unless it's happening whithin FL's audio system, which is not reassuring.



It is strange indeed.

I guess another troubleshooting question is:

- When it occurs, saving as a new project, then reopening it would help determine if it's an FL studio problem or a plugin which eventually malfunctions or it is something which is occurring as part of the project. If you open it, and it's no longer there, it's FL or the Plugin/library is malfunctioning. If you reopen it and it is there, then something is occurring mid project to produce this.

- How are you identifying it as Cinepiano? Is it being identified through the plugin track flickering on solo, or is it coming from the mixer channel?

- When it occurs, find the sources using soloing techniques, replace it with a random similar instrument, of the noise still occurs it could be a routing issue.

- Make sure no *IN*coming signals are going to mixer tracks, or possibly saved on Mixer Track presets you may be loading in.

I'd also say, be watchful massive high pitched noises from nowhere, it can damage your hearing. Always care for your ears, as tinnitus is dreadful.


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## Kubler (Apr 27, 2020)

Trying to identify the source of the noise via soloing and such was inconclusive, it doesn't show in any output / mixer track and deleting the entire rack of instrument didn't make it stop.

However I'm about 99% sure it is CinePiano for the reasons that I mentioned in my original post and because of the course of events since I ran into the issue once again yesterday : I deleted the instrument and replaced it with The Giant. Worked for several hours without the noise occuring again. Then today to test and record the video (see next post) I replaced back The Giant with CinePiano, and it took me only a couple of attempts to reproduce the issue. Saving as a new project didn't make it go away. Up until yesterday I thought I had pinpointed a faulty plugin and I stopped using it a few weeks ago, but apparently it was not the cause. CinePiano is literally the only common denominator I'm left with.

I checked my routing, which is very simple anyways as you'll se in the video (I don't use mixer tracks presets). All tracks go to Dry & Reverb, both buses go the master. As far as I can tell, if there's a feedback loop of some sort, it's not of my doing.



Peter Satera said:


> I'd also say, be watchful massive high pitched noises from nowhere, it can damage your hearing. Always care for your ears, as tinnitus is dreadful.


I can't agree more, it's why I'm that infuriated by the problem. I can deal with an annoying artefact, background white noise or whatever, but this is simply intolerable. The first time it happened yesterday I thought I was going to punch through my screen, and then I spent the next ten minutes muting my sound each time I was about to stop the playback.


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## Kubler (Apr 27, 2020)

(There's no sound, but I think the indicator bar at the top is pretty self-explainatory.)



Deleting all the plugins from the mixer seems to have an effect, but it's obviously not an acceptable solution and as the last part shows, it doesn't even actually solve anything.


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## creativeforge (Apr 27, 2020)

Kubler said:


> (There's no sound, but I think the indicator bar at the top is pretty self-explainatory.)
> 
> 
> 
> Deleting all the plugins from the mixer seems to have an effect, but it's obviously not an acceptable solution and as the last part shows, it doesn't even actually solve anything.




Crazy thought, I'm sorry if this was mentioned, but does it do that if you turn off the MIDI controller you use? If you unplug it, reopen your project, does the issue persist on playback?


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## Kubler (Apr 27, 2020)

creativeforge said:


> Crazy thought, I'm sorry if this was mentioned, but does it do that if you turn off the MIDI controller you use? If you unplug it, reopen your project, does the issue persist on playback?


I don't use a MIDI controller, mouse and keyboard only :/


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## creativeforge (Apr 27, 2020)

Kubler said:


> I don't use a MIDI controller, mouse and keyboard only :/



Oh. Well then. Is it possible that FL Studio is looking for a note-off or something? I use my QWERTY kb from time to time too but not sure of the limitations...

Hope you find the issue!


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## Montisquirrel (Apr 27, 2020)

Have you tried to ask this question in the Image-Line forum?


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## Sapphire (Apr 27, 2020)

Could you post the flp?


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## Sapphire (Apr 27, 2020)

And is there a reason you alwas stop at that exact point? Is there a way to trigger it without the automation clips? 

Also, did you try disabling smart disable for that Kontakt instance? 

Does the problem occur with Asio4ALL (instead of your Asio) drivers as well?


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## Sapphire (Apr 27, 2020)

Did you try to showing the levels in the mixer instead of the waveform? I doubt they ever tested displaying such waveforms as on the top, who knows :D 

Also, trying fixed size buffers is always a good idea (even if I don't think it will work).

I kind of doubt that the problem is in FL as well though (even though the plugin disable thing is weird). The userbase is simply too big (much bigger than cinesamples - FL is downloaded 30.000 times a day) for something like *this* to go unnoticed for long. It may be the combination of FL and CinePiano.

Hope this will get resolved soon. Wanted to get CinePiano, but this plan is canceled until it's fixed or otherwise resolved. @CineSamples


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## Kubler (Apr 27, 2020)

Sapphire said:


> And is there a reason you alwas stop at that exact point?


Not really, it's just that I tend to stop the playback pretty quickly at the end of an ongoing track or a musical phrase so I figured I might as well keep doing that during the tests. But I can recall instances of the noise appearing even if I stop in the middle of the music.

I can't seem to reproduce the issue right now, but I haven't tried your suggestions yet, so I wouldn't call it a victory. I'm going to test things during the next few days and keep you guys posted. In the meantime, if anybody wants to take a look at the file I used in the video, I'm uploading it *here*.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it a lot !


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## Peter Satera (Apr 28, 2020)

Sapphire said:


> I kind of doubt that the problem is in FL as well though (even though the plugin disable thing is weird). The userbase is simply too big (much bigger than cinesamples - FL is downloaded 30.000 times a day) for something like *this* to go unnoticed for long. It may be the combination of FL and CinePiano.



I wouldn't say it's _not _FL studio due to it's user base sizes, replicable bugs have appeared even with stable full point releases, some that's impacted my workflow and nobody has noticed. 

Kubler, when the problem appears, does deleting Cinepiano from kontakt instantly resolve it? As we can see it doesn't seem to make a difference via the mixer.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Apr 28, 2020)

If it's white noise then it could be an issue which once occurred during the BETA of a library. It would regularly produce very loud white noise, which was said to be due to missing file connections (not missing samples) in Kontakt caused by the upload of the library.
After they re-uploaded it it was fine.
So maybe you are for some reason experiencing missing file connections. Maybe something like that can even happen during installation, so did you try to completely uninstall the library and re-download and install it, maybe even on a different drive?


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## Sapphire (Apr 28, 2020)

I don't seem to be able to reporduce it without CinePiano or FabFilter. I also can't look at the plugins processing settings etc. as I don't have them.

The massive CPU spikes on start and stop are not normal btw.

Are you able to reproduce it with CinePiano only? I mean a fresh new file. No Automation, no routing. Just CinePiano. Unfortunately, the error occurs randomly. This makes it much harder.


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## Sapphire (May 3, 2020)

Anything new? Did you file support tickets?


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## Kubler (May 5, 2020)

Hi guys, sorry for being so slow to respond, work has been intense lately.



Peter Satera said:


> Kubler, when the problem appears, does deleting Cinepiano from kontakt instantly resolve it?


It doesn't unfortunately



Sapphire said:


> The massive CPU spikes on start and stop are not normal btw.


Do you mean that you have them as well, in an unusual fashion ? If you don't, couldn't it be because you don't have certain plugins that I use, and those plugins are causing the spikes ?



Sapphire said:


> Are you able to reproduce it with CinePiano only? I mean a fresh new file. No Automation, no routing. Just CinePiano.


I haven't tested without automations, but there was an occurence of the issue with a project using only CinePiano with a single mic and a pretty direct Dry + Reverb → Master routing in addition of a mere EQ.

I think I should have tried @DarkestShadow's suggestion and re-downloaded the library sooner. I'm going to do it and if it doesn't work, I'll contact CineSamples' support to bring their attention to the problem.

I'll post any useful development in this thread


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## Mattia Chiappa (May 24, 2020)

I’m experiencing pretty much the same issue in Logic X. Sudden spikes in volumes when I hit the pause button on my computer keyboard. Weirdly if I replace, reload the samples or replace with a new instance or Kontakt the problem goes away for sometime for then randomly reappearing. Sometimes it doesn’t reappear at all. I have no idea what it’s going on. I was not able to replicate it at all in standalone. Similarly to the OP I’m not getting visuals of these spikes on the logic output track but only on my interface. The only thing I know for a fact is that CinePiano is causing these spikes, when I disarm the track the problem goes away.


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## Kubler (May 24, 2020)

Mattia Chiappa said:


> I’m experiencing pretty much the same issue in Logic X. Sudden spikes in volumes when I hit the pause button on my computer keyboard. Weirdly if I replace, reload the samples or replace with a new instance or Kontakt the problem goes away for sometime for then randomly reappearing. Sometimes it doesn’t reappear at all. I have no idea what it’s going on. I was not able to replicate it at all in standalone. Similarly to the OP I’m not getting visuals of these spikes on the logic output track but only on my interface. The only thing I know for a fact is that CinePiano is causing these spikes, when I disarm the track the problem goes away.


That's interesting. What do you mean exactly by "sudden spikes in volume", would you be able to describe the sound that is produced ? Is it like a constant, piercing waveform somewhere within the sixth octave and super loud ?


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## Mattia Chiappa (May 24, 2020)

Kubler said:


> That's interesting. What do you mean exactly by "sudden spikes in volume", would you be able to describe the sound that is produced ? Is it like a constant, piercing waveform somewhere within the sixth octave and super loud ?


It sounds like a super loud pop, more like clip distortion. It only lasts half a second but I suspect it's because of the built in auto dim feature of my audio interface (thank god for that!). If try to turn the volume down when that happens I'm getting clicking and popping al over the place. It's very inconsistent and unpredictable but I only really had the library for a couple of weeks so I don't have a huge experience with it. For the first few days everything worked just fine.

Today I had a weird, different experience while opening a project from last week, which was working fine at the time. As soon as I started to play the project got hit by a massive 300db boost in volume from CinePiano. It scared the hell out of me and I'm a bit terrified to use the lib again or do any more testings right now. It can be dangerous and I'm sure I would have damaged my hearing if I was using headphones. As usual everything went back to normal by reloading the samples.


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## Kubler (May 24, 2020)

Mattia Chiappa said:


> It sounds like a super loud pop, more like clip distortion. It only lasts half a second but I suspect it's because of the built in auto dim feature of my audio interface (thank god for that!). If try to turn the volume down when that happens I'm getting clicking and popping al over the place. It's very inconsistent and unpredictable but I only really had the library for a couple of weeks so I don't have a huge experience with it. For the first few days everything worked just fine.
> 
> Today I had a weird, different experience while opening a project from last week, which was working fine at the time. As soon as I started to play the project got hit by a massive 300db boost in volume from CinePiano. It scared the hell out of me and I'm a bit terrified to use the lib again or do any more testings right now. It can be dangerous and I'm sure I would have damaged my hearing if I was using headphones. As usual everything went back to normal by reloading the samples.


Well that sounds very similar to my issue. It really looks like CinePiano is messing with some audio devices / pilots. I think i'm going to shoot a message to Cinesamples at some point next month…


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## Mattia Chiappa (May 24, 2020)

Kubler said:


> Well that sounds very similar to my issue. It really looks like CinePiano is messing with some audio devices / pilots. I think i'm going to shoot a message to Cinesamples at some point next month…


Will do too


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## mattse84 (Jun 17, 2020)

I also get the same problem in Logic Pro - a short pop when stopping playback whilst CinePianos is active, followed by my interface maxing out. Bearing in mind this only seems to be a recently reported thing (from what I can find), I wonder if it's a bug which has developed on the later versions of iOS or Logic?


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## darcvision (Jul 21, 2020)

i have this problem too in FL Studio... but its a plugin fault, like fruity limiter, audio assault transient+


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## tonaliszt (Jul 21, 2020)

No idea about this - I use CinePiano every day in Logic with no issues. 

But can I take the time to say this - 

Always have a limiter on the master bus! Protect your headphones, your speakers, and most importantly your ears!! 

Things like this happen - and not usually when we want them to. It's important to be prepared.


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## modigliano (May 16, 2021)

Hello,
I have the same issue with CinePiano and Logic pro X ( 10.6.1)
Check the attached file to listen to the big "pop" when i hit start and/or stop
View attachment Big Pop with CinePiano and Logic Pro x.mp3


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## CeDur (Jul 23, 2021)

Same with Reaper and Cakewalk here. Any of you guys were able to solve the issue? I'm starting getting angry, tried so many settings. I paid my money for it, cannot make it work and cannot re-sell it.


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## Kubler (Jul 23, 2021)

CeDur said:


> Same with Reaper and Cakewalk here. Any of you guys were able to solve the issue? I'm starting getting angry, tried so many settings. I paid my money for it, cannot make it work and cannot re-sell it.


I have migrated on Cubase since then for unrelated reasons, so I've pretty much let go of the issue, sorry… although it has not occured on Cubase a single time so far, so it definitely seems to be software-related.


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## fiction (Aug 16, 2021)

I'm having the same problem in Logic Pro X 10.6.1 on Catalina with CinePiano. When I stop playback there's a loud pop. It's very short but my Apollo x8 keeps displaying the full clipping meter non stop until I quit Logic. 

Removing the Kontakt instance with CinePiano before starting playback solves the problem but happens again if I re-load it. 

Anyone figured this out? Never had this happening to me before and was really enjoying this piano.


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## Mattia Chiappa (Aug 17, 2021)

fiction said:


> I'm having the same problem in Logic Pro X 10.6.1 on Catalina with CinePiano. When I stop playback there's a loud pop. It's very short but my Apollo x8 keeps displaying the full clipping meter non stop until I quit Logic.
> 
> Removing the Kontakt instance with CinePiano before starting playback solves the problem but happens again if I re-load it.
> 
> Anyone figured this out? Never had this happening to me before and was really enjoying this piano.


I contacted Cinesamples a couple of times in the past year and they said it's a common issue they are aware of and they're currently investigating what might be causing it but it's hard to troubleshoot because of its randomness.

I found it only occurs when I use the sustain pedal. My solution was stop using the library altogether


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## marclawsonmusic (Aug 17, 2021)

Due to this thread (and others like it), this plugin is now a permanent part of my template!









Ice9 Automute by Cerberus Audio - Utility Plugin VST Audio Unit


Cerberus Audio Ice9 Automute is a free utility which protects your speakers, your ears, and your nerves from dangerously loud output levels....




www.kvraudio.com


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## fiction (Sep 22, 2021)

Was anyone able to solve this problem in logic yet?


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## Gingerbread (Sep 22, 2021)

fiction said:


> Was anyone able to solve this problem in logic yet?


I think probably the best solution for now is to always load the free plugin Ice9 on your master channel. It will cut off all audio above a specified db. I have it permanently in all my sessions, to be safe.

Available here:
https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145531&hilit=ice9#p757888


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## CeDur (Sep 23, 2021)

I've got response from Cinesamples that they are working on a huge Cinepiano update, but no details when it will be available.


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## creativeforge (Sep 23, 2021)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Due to this thread (and others like it), this plugin is now a permanent part of my template!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It says *No Longer Available*. Cerberus Audio seems to have moved on. BUT I found an external link to the freeware files on KVR (has both Mac and Windows versions):

*ICE9* ▼




__





Cerberus Audio – Ice9 Automute – VST PLUGINS






vstplugin.net





Hope this helps!

Andre


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## Halfstar (Oct 5, 2021)

I recently got Reaper (coming from Pro Tools), when I loaded Cinepiano, it was fine at first, now this awful propeller-like "whip, whip, whip" sound is coming from the speakers whenever I play notes. Terrible. Love Cinepianos. Anyone noticed this specific error? I loaded up Cinematic Studio Piano and some other piano plugins without issue!


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## CeDur (Oct 5, 2021)

I noticed a slight improvement when pedal mode is switched to MIDI from True within Cinepiano. Still, the issue remains no matter which controller I use (continuous or 0-1 sustain pedal), loaded in Reaper or Cakewalk, tried on 2 different computers. I really hope they will fix that with update.


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## fiction (Jan 25, 2022)

Still couldn't figure out what's causing this issue and it's unfortunate that we can't use a library we've invested in. 

Whenever I have time I try to load it and run some experiments to see if I can somehow do anything that magically fixes it but never succeed. 

This piano sits really well with orchestral samples and I think many people with this problem would like to be able to use it. 

I understand it might be a complex issue to figure out, but I think it would be great if @Cinesamples @Cinesamples-SG could give us an opinion on this topic and if we can expect this issue to be fixed.


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## Gingerbread (Jan 25, 2022)

fiction said:


> Still couldn't figure out what's causing this issue and it's unfortunate that we can't use a library we've invested in.
> 
> Whenever I have time I try to load it and run some experiments to see if I can somehow do anything that magically fixes it but never succeed.
> 
> ...


Does it still happen when you have the Ice9 plugin on your master channel?


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## fiction (Jan 25, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> Does it still happen when you have the Ice9 plugin on your master channel?


I didn't try that plugin yet but I'm guessing this doesn't fix the problem but instead prevents the speakers from popping when the issue happens?


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## Gingerbread (Jan 25, 2022)

fiction said:


> I didn't try that plugin yet but I'm guessing this doesn't fix the problem but instead prevents the speakers from popping when the issue happens?


Well, that would be a _type_ of fix, right?


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## fiction (Jan 25, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> Well, that would be a _type_ of fix, right?


Not really, even after the loud pop the interface stays at full scale into the red requiring me to restart Logic.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Dec 14, 2022)

Hey everyone -- I'm pleased to announce that we have updated CinePiano with a fix for this issue! The update is live on Native Access now, if you've had this problem in the past please try updating and if you still run into it let us know ASAP!


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## polynaeus (Dec 14, 2022)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Hey everyone -- I'm pleased to announce that we have updated CinePiano with a fix for this issue! The update is live on Native Access now, if you've had this problem in the past please try updating and if you still run into it let us know ASAP!


Can I ask what the issue was? Did it by chance have anything to do with the Tape Saturation plugin?


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## Cinesamples-SG (Dec 14, 2022)

polynaeus said:


> Can I ask what the issue was? Did it by chance have anything to do with the Tape Saturation plugin?


Not as far as we could tell -- most of the reports about this issue were found in Logic, particularly when using Loop Mode and the Sustain Pedal; we addressed this by applying a miniscule fade-out to the releases to prevent any latent audio information from getting stuck in the audio buffer and causing this loud bang. It took a _long_ time to chase this issue down, as it was reported sporadically and on a wild variety of systems, so we took this approach to add a safety net that _should _address the problem without having to dig into the specifics of each DAW.


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