# Remote Control Productions Thread



## Adam Kurutz (Jan 2, 2009)

Hello ! 

This is a subject I became obsessed with. ~o) 

Id like to ask all of you that have some informations on subject,please do so ! 

I found almost nothing valuable on the internet, so id like to ask you with my greatest respect,if somebody knows something interesting about RCP, like some things about technology,or what is the workflow there, or anything interesting, please do so.

Ill be very thankfull for any informations,even the carpet colours or whatever :D 

Sy,

AK


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2009)

What exactly is RCP?


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## Adam Kurutz (Jan 2, 2009)

Well, Remote Control Productions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Control_Productions
 

AK


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## synthetic (Jan 2, 2009)

Here's a fansite with some info in the forum:

http://www.hans-zimmer.com

I assume you've searched YouTube and watched the features on DVDs he's worked on (Pirates, etc.). Much of it is kept confidential, though.


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## synergy543 (Jan 2, 2009)

Nick, you should do a special print issue a - Tips, tricks and insiders guide to RCP. I'm sure it'd fly off the shelves.

I've been there a few times when it was Media Ventures. Actually I didn't even know what Media Ventures was the first time I walked in! - we had a meeting there for some unrelated business. Got a tour and wandered around. Jeff Rona had a room at the time and Hans had a very large synth room. Lots of hardware including stacks and stacks of hardware samplers. Yamaha and Euphonix mixers, Quested monitors, and lots of fun toys. It was just a big kids sandbox. I'm sure much has changed since then although I'm sure its still a very inspiring atmosphere.

No confidential secrets revealed I hope.


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## midphase (Jan 2, 2009)

Hey Adam,

If you want to hear some good stories...you should come to the next LANS dinner!


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## José Herring (Jan 2, 2009)

What exactly do you need to know? There really isn't a lot of secrets.

There are a few good things on the net. Most of the stories you hear from other composers isn't really that true or horribly misunderstood.

Imo it's an interesting place because for the first time you don't necessarily feel all alone.

best

Jose


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## Adam Kurutz (Jan 2, 2009)

Guys,this is starting to be heavily exciting (o) 

Well, I saw everything that could be seen on the internet me thinks...

i have hans-zimmer.com ripped through several times ...

im not in search of anything confidential ,or secret, im just obsessed and looking for every little detail ...

Also as I mentioned,RCP is my current professional goal.

Synergy - thats cool :mrgreen:


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## bryla (Jan 2, 2009)

One of my friends was there one day in the 90's where an intern got fired when telling a salesman from a local synth-store "Oh, Hans just uses the presets"... That's the only story I know :D


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## gsilbers (Jan 2, 2009)

ive been there many times. what are u lookin for? 

each composer's setup is a bit difrent but have more similaritiues. some use logic some DP and some cubase. some composers use 8 gigas some use 25 gigas. 
they all have the same basic setup which is very cool and streamed line. but is there something in particular u are searching to find. ? cause i could rable on and on..


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## Adam Kurutz (Jan 2, 2009)

Gsilbers, thats just crazy !! >8o 

Youve really been there "many times" ? 

Im interested in everything ,im hungry for every litlle stupid detail - if you have some time, just keep writing and writing !
(o) 

ps.i have NOT any insterest in any sort of "industrial espionage" :D ,its just place i wanto to reach to one day


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## Justus (Jan 2, 2009)

This is an rather old but insightful video about Hans Zimmer (unfortunately in German):

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=85-GrpZHI ... re=related

duration: 1 Hour



Kindly,
Justus


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## gsilbers (Jan 2, 2009)

well, u have the thread under working in the industry. all i know about that is that all of the composers are manage by one main company called something swarthzy.. crap i forgot. 

as for the setups, they consist of 3 components. one is the main daw/sequencer. the second the samplers and the 3rd is the recorder, pro toosl HD. 

all oof those components are in a machine room. with a assistant who gets paid in peanuts. yes, the composers walks in w some craked peanuts and throws them at the assistats face every 6 hours :mrgreen:  :lol: 
for real, they pay by week a set amount... sound resable at 1st until u have to stay from 8am until 3am and come back again at 8am...every day of the week... killer.. 
but its the price you pay for maybe making it, not all assistant stay, specially for "this" composer. youll see ads for assistant for him every 3 months. 


so pro tools handle the picture and its slaved to logic/cubase/dp/main daw 
and the outputs of the gigastudios go into pro tools via adat lightpipe or madi. 
soome composers have up to 25 gigastudios. one for only violins another for hi brass, and so on. they have a adat madi card that routes into pro tools and its input is routes to a series of effects so its premixed before recording and also arranged into setms so you have a string stem and so on. but it varies depending on the composer. 
and all stems are 5.1
so with the 5.1 stems they put the session in the main recording stage and they mute the string stems if there is a string recording and so on. 

logic or the main daw with intruments get routed into pro tools also via difrent audio interfaces,. not sure the deal is if its based on individual tracks or just the main outs. 
but there are TONS i mean A LOT of tracks in the template.. in logic they use another 
arrange page with folders to use as a "index" to go to the difrent instirunts. we are talking up to 200 tracks. 
which is very cool, cause once you have a main melody or idea you can jump fast into difrent intruments and try them w/o having to setup a trak , maybe mixing it . etc.. its all right there already mixed and sounding amazing. 

all coposers use the same speakers, dont rememebr the brand but are very nice. all use the same midi controller for midi fader to control volume, breath, filter , etc. 

to be able to see 25 computers they use a kvr switcher. so there is one screan for 25 gigasamplers and another 2 screans for the main daw and one for pro tools and one tv screan for the movie. 

all midi is via midioverlan. 

each gigasstudio is fully loaded, all 8 ports. most of the samples are hanz zimmer new 192k orchstral samples custom made. i think the copmosers get a 44.1 version cause its heavy, 

HZ has a whole difrent setup. he has like 5 wiz kids working for him. 
one guy just to make sample instruments for him and every movie he prepares some new instruments if its proiminent in the compoosition. . just for a drumset its like 10gb. 
he has a shiit load of 64 bit enable computers with propietary 64 bit sampler programmed by his assistant. then another dude that programs synth patches and such, brought from germany or something. maybe just gossiping here and the guy does more but i heard he is amazing with zebra2. 
the guy who wrote the sampler program wrote an article in sound on sound about the process. maybe u can find it. something that stuck was that he wrote the article during christmas while also writing the program so u can imagine the life. 
and thats the hanz zimmer culturte.. HZ is very cool but you done realize what a hard worker he is, and spreads the culture all around thus, what i wroter above about the assistanst pay and shedule. 
there is also an article /interview on him using the access virus synth (TI) in the access page. 
anything else?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2009)

Ah, of course I know RCP. Synapses missing.


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## Hannes_F (Jan 2, 2009)

gsilbers @ Sat Jan 03 said:


> all midi is via midioverlan



Ha. Finally I found something that is the same here.

This thread is hilarious.


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## José Herring (Jan 2, 2009)

Personally I think the least important thing about RCP is what setup everybody is using. They have everything under the sun. That's all you need to know about the setup.

The main thing to keep in mind is that which works for Hans Zimmer isn't necessarily going to work for everybody. He's built up a system around his way of working that suits him. Others have other systems that work around what they are doing.

The most important thing to know is that I've not seen anybody in this field that works harder than he does. He's also very, very technically minded.

I work with two composers there on and off and they are both completely different and no they all don't have the same set up.

The most important thing that I'm getting from working over there is that good tracks don't have to be complicated tracks. Every composer that I know that tries to get "that sound" (if it is one sound) far over does it. Way far over does it.

The key to getting that sound is that it is relatively simple, it's emotionally effective, and that it's very well produced.

In working over there I've probably have come way far along in my knowledge of physics and electronics than with music.

But the truth is that the most effective music isn't a matter of track count but a matter of being emotionally effective and gearing your music and sound design around the idea of hitting the right emotion at the right time with respects to the story being told.

Where other successful composers write music and fit it to film. Most of the RCP composers are bending the music to be most effective in film. That's why they're killing everybody else in this field. The story and the picture come before the music and not visa versa.


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## gsilbers (Jan 2, 2009)

yep most defenetly. 

those guys are great composers,. and yes, some of the sessions i saw only had 2 or 3 tracks but filled a lot for the scene.. 

but the setups, in specific the 3 components/system (DAW-Samplers-Recorder) is a setup all of them are based on and it helps a lot making the work more streamlined and faster, 
instead of the -work all in one computer or one computer and the samplers. 
its a way of having everything techology be simpler for the composer so it doesnt get in the wway of the music and the movie.


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## José Herring (Jan 2, 2009)

It would be far simpler to put everything on one computer and if it could be done people would be doing it. But since it can't be done then you imploy as many computers as you need.

In actual fact Hans Zimmer was trimming down his computer setup. I think he had it down to 4 or 5 computers from about 10, but now since he has his own dedicated 7.1 surround samples he needs more machines. But, the point being that he needs them. He doesn't have them just to have them.

I know a lot of composers who boast of 5 computer systems and then you hear what they are doing and what they are doing could have been done a lot quicker with just one. One young guy who has since left RCP had a $60,000 5.1 studio that his parents financed for him by getting a second mortgage on their home. He played me some of the tracks and I literally had to bite my tongue for fear of hurting his feelings. What he was capable of doing with the $60,000 studio could be more easily done with 1 PC and a pair of m-audio BX5a's for about $1500.

So I'm always skeptical when people focus way too much on another composer's setup. It's fun to talk about that stuff but in the end only the music matters.

You could get a system just like Hans Zimmer, but it wouldn't help you much if you don't know the basics of audio production or music composition or sound design. That's the point I'm trying to get across.

Grow it a bit at a time. Master what you have then it will be glaringly apparent what you need to get next.

For you unless you have an engineer working for you and unless you have multiple stems to deliver, getting a seperate Protools system would be quite a waste of money. But getting seperate sampler PC's might be worth while for you if you want to setup a template.

The whole point being that what's working for Hans Zimmer equipment wise isn't that practical for everybody. I even know some composers who are well far along in this business that aren't as elaborate as he is.

Focusing on music creation and deciding what you need as you get better organized will answer most of your question rather than worrying about what they're doing over there, because trust me unless you're over there working in the wee hours of the night you'll never really fully get what's going on over there. You'd have to see it to believe it.

Jose


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## synergy543 (Jan 2, 2009)

josejherring @ Fri Jan 02 said:


> You could get a system just like Hans Zimmer, but it wouldn't help you much if you don't know the basics of audio production or music composition or sound design. That's the point I'm trying to get across.
> 
> Grow it a bit at a time. Master what you have then it will be glaringly apparent what you need to get next.
> Jose



Great advise Jose. Probably better than what Hans could share with us himself.


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## synthetic (Jan 2, 2009)

I think the fascination with Hans' setup (which I share and have emulated somewhat), is that he's been doing it this way the longest and has virtually unlimited budget. So when he uses something, or talks about his workflow, it gets my attention. Like Formula 1 technology that gets applied to auto manufacturing, you can see where the development of the RCP workflow can make your own studio work better.


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## gsilbers (Jan 2, 2009)

so i dont know if u arguing or whom are u arguing with or about what

no one said "because of thier setups thats why they are good composers." or "i want setup like that to write that good of a music"

we learn from other peoples setups and mistakes, and acheivemnts of course. 
not that we are going to do the same and buy the same things to be like them but for example you need good orchestral samples, weò·)   8·)   9·)   :·)   ;·)   <·)   =·)   >·)   ?·)   @·)   A·)   B·)   C·)   D·)   E·)   F·)   G·)   H·)   I·)   J·)   K·)   L·)   M·)   N·)   O·)   P·)   Q·)   R·)   S·)   T·)   U·)   V·)   W·)   X·)   Y·)   Z·)   [·)   \·)   ]·)   ^·)   _·)   `·)   a·)   b·)   c·)   d·)   e·)   f·)   g·)   h·)   i·)   j·)   k·)   l·)   m·)   n·)   o·)   p·)   q·)   r·)   s·)   t·)   u·)   v·*   w·*   x·*   y·*   z·*   {·*   |·*   }·*   ~·*   ·*   €·+   ·+   ‚·+   ƒ·+   „·+   …·+   †·+   ‡·+   ˆ·+   ‰·+   Š·+   ‹·+   Œ·+   ·+   Ž·+   ·+   ·+   ‘·+   ’·+   “·+   ”·+   •·+   –·+   


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## Hannes_F (Jan 3, 2009)

gsilbers @ Sat Jan 03 said:


> the original poster wanted to know about RCP and the tehcnology. maybe so he can work there



I think I saw an interview with Harry Gregson-Williams where he stated that before his RCP time he never worked with a technology like this, he all learned it there including Cubase. His ticket obviously was his writing.


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## gsilbers (Jan 3, 2009)

midphase @ Sat Jan 03 said:


> Sounds like Hans got his own proprietary virtual sampler....right? It doesn't sound like he'll be too upset about GS going away.
> 
> Hell...he can afford to buy the GS source code and keep it running and updated as long as he wants!



its the other composers in rcp that use giga. hanz doent use giga and other stuff the other composer use. its like someone already stated, he tries stuff and its the 1st one to adopt new stuff and then he gets the others to use it.. one example i saw was the new euphonic mixer. all of them are trying it out, but they didnt like that it doesnt transmit midi cc. only to mix audio faders. but i think hanz owns or has something to do with that company so im guessing itll change. 

the problem with giga is that the folks at rcp have used giga for a long as time and a transition to a new sampler will take a lot of time, which they dont have w all those movies they get. but im interested to know what sampler will they choose... if its hanz propietary sampler or logic as a sampler, kontakt or keep giga to version 4 and wait to see what hapens. 
just becuase i am in the same boat, and all of the sampler suck imo. specially kontakt. 
(just dont like it, no 64 bit? little letters, complex gui). and giga is out, i dunno about mach v and the stand alone stuff work only with their own samples. 
so im waiting to see where that technology is heading, 

a met a guy who sets up systems for other composers and he mentioned logic as a stand alone sampler and he converted all the .gig samples into exs which its a pita cause he did the programs like mod wheel changing filter etc which it doenst trasfer well with cdxtract and chickn sys
but i already got a pc :(


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## synthetic (Jan 3, 2009)

Hans uses Moog modulars, he seems comfortable around obsolete gear.  

Giga still works great. People are concerned that it will stop working somehow? The only problem will be with newer systems, like trying to run it on Windows 7 might cause some problem. But there's no problem, it's happiest on a dedicated computer anyway. 

Anyway, RCP is designing their own sampler, for piracy reasons primarily.


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## PolarBear (Jan 3, 2009)

I agree with synthetic... I don't get it really... as long as something like Giga is still working for you, why desperately seek to shift to some other software? I mean I wouldn't buy into it or get new stuff for it now, but if you already have the things and everything set up and running in your setup, I don't see a point in dumping it for something that you will have to pay for and invest time installing and adjusting your setup.


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## PolarBear (Jan 3, 2009)

Hannes_F @ Sat Jan 03 said:


> gsilbers @ Sat Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > the original poster wanted to know about RCP and the tehcnology. maybe so he can work there
> ...


I also don't get how knowing some gear stuff will be a ticket into this company. All I know is that you have to be some excellent folk in your department (and one that they currently need covered) and that will get you a gig there if you're after that. Oh, and the old story. Spreading the word you are excellent at your department has to be endorsed by someone they would trust... he will unlikely get a nobody-knows.


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## gsilbers (Jan 3, 2009)

PolarBear @ Sat Jan 03 said:


> I agree with synthetic... I don't get it really... as long as something like Giga is still working for you, why desperately seek to shift to some other software? I mean I wouldn't buy into it or get new stuff for it now, but if you already have the things and everything set up and running in your setup, I don't see a point in dumping it for something that you will have to pay for and invest time installing and adjusting your setup.




maybe you are not getting it cause u didnt read correctly the posts. which are saying and arguing exactly what everyone else has posted. if giga works for you why change. 

but in the future we all know giga if out. so what then? still a few years in future.cause giga still works.


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## PolarBear (Jan 3, 2009)

Actually I'm in the opinion of only not getting what you imply to say with your last post gsilbers?


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## gsilbers (Jan 3, 2009)

PolarBear @ Sat Jan 03 said:


> Hannes_F @ Sat Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > gsilbers @ Sat Jan 03 said:
> ...



did the original poster said he wanted to work there? cause u short quoted me, and missed the point.. i was stating that i am just answering the original poster w/o caring why the fuk he wants to learn it for. 
maybe is to work there, maybe he has a picture of hanz zimmer naked in his bedroom and he is in love with him and his company who the fuk knows ecept for the op, but without asking him youll never know right? 


as for the rest of your point i can say that many assistant start working there to try to get a cue here or there and be able to be like one of them but i havent seen that much. but i dunno, correct me if i am wrong. maybe its a mixed bag.


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## PolarBear (Jan 3, 2009)

Well I quoted someone who quoted you on something w/o any Giga talk (only gig-talk). Maybe you weren't getting that cause u didn't read correctly my posts.

I'm already sorry to point you to another possible misunderstanding of yours:



gsilbers @ Sun Jan 04 said:


> did the original poster said he wanted to work there?





Adam Kurutz @ Sat Jan 03 said:


> Also as I mentioned,RCP is my current professional goal.





Adam Kurutz @ Sat Jan 03 said:


> its just place i wanto to reach to one day



On a sidenote, Adam: "in the near future" should be your very goal. It's unlikely they'll carry on with today's technology for more than 5 to 10 years. Look at that YouTubeò·„   $·„   $Ž·„   $·„   $·„   $‘·„   $’·„   $“·„   $”·„   $•·„


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## Adam Kurutz (Jan 4, 2009)

Gentlemen ! :D 

Little storm going on here..

I have to admit it would be a dream come true to work there.
I wouldnt mind to start with cleaning toilets at all.

Its just a fascinating phenomenon - concentration of technology and talent in one place.Scent of blockusters ,so to say. :D 

I did enormous amount of classical and experimental -non-commercial stuff,and this is something I also need...
I am somehow perverted - in one second writing madrigal for chamber choir,and in other stuffing myself with popcorn watching Dark Knight---- and make living with Tv and games :D

AK

ps...the thing with me having Hans photo in bedroom---well, ....................nothing.
o-[][]-o


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## gsilbers (Jan 4, 2009)

dcoscina @ Sun Jan 04 said:


> I would not mind RCS so much if they endeavored to carve out some singular stylistic voices within the organization. As it stands, the music coming out of there by various composers sounds very generic. with all those toys and technology, perhaps someone forgot about creativity. And please do not pull out the "it's what directors want". Fact is, this rationalization is putting the cart before the horse. The proliferation of such a sound is directly a result of the mentality of this place compounded with directors/producers wanting "yes" men who do what they are told with no creative collaboration. Sad to say that the real composers of yesteryear don't get much work because they do have opinions and ideas that seemed to yield some pretty amazing results in their day. But what the hell do I know? I do not work in Hollywood.





damn, thats harsh..


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## JohnG (Jan 4, 2009)

On the topic of suspecting that that Hollywood is not exactly a meritocracy, Bernard Herrmann (quoting page 306 from "A Heart at Fire's Center") weighs in: 

"Today it's [film work] not done by people who got the right man. Every job is an opportunity for your friends who have as little talent as you have! That's how you get a job. The first requisite is that you have absolutely no talent. You're a nice guy who won't rock their boat...."

This is one of the more polite things he says on this page.


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## gsilbers (Jan 4, 2009)

Adam Kurutz @ Sun Jan 04 said:


> Gentlemen ! :D
> 
> Little storm going on here..
> 
> ...



ehehehh.. 


so u want to work there to learn the technology, compose that style or to be in that 
environment? 


if u are really interested in working there call up and ask for the person in charge of hiring. its a lady and ask her that u are interested and if u can subit your resume. 
also, u most likely you will have to live in LA. as most studios , they dont wanna be responsible if things dont work out. but i dunno for sure w rcp.


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## synthetic (Jan 4, 2009)

Great Herrmann quote!

OK, here's how it works (as explained to me by more than one guy there.) If you want to work for RCP, the best way in is to start as a tech. Learn everything you can about Pro Tools, Cubase, GigaStudio, Logic, PC Networking, Mac troubleshooting, analog synth programming, computer programming, etc. Then move to LA and start networking, teching for people, fixing their Macs and stuff. Maybe you get a job at a music store like West LA Music and meet people that way, helping them install the gear you sold them. Eventually you'll meet someone who can get your name passed around RCP. One day a gig will come up and you'll get a call, I need someone to tech my system for me. Record tracks, swap out computers, upgrade, etc. etc. Plan to make $20-30k a year, which is barely enough to afford rent and Taco Bell in LA, and work 110+ hours a week. 

As you tech for them, you'll test out the systems by writing music. Eventually the guy you're teching for will listen to it, tell you it's crap and why. Some time later you'll get to the point where one of your pieces is good enough to use as a "jumping off point." Do this enough times and you'll get an additional music credit. Then it's time to start networking with the assistant producers who come through there, hoping that one of them will like you enough to give you a shot at scoring their project. 

There you go, I just planned out your life for you. Get to work.


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## JohnG (Jan 4, 2009)

but when you say, "douchebags," I'm sure you mean it in the most flattering way.


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## gsilbers (Jan 4, 2009)

damn that was harsh midphase.. but u are entltiled to your opinion and you where the only one who didnt give me shiite when i was saying that one john william score sucked. 

all i have to say, and ive said it in other threads, is that in post, for producers/director audience etc, you just have to make it work. and work i mean to picture... so while we are overthinking to make this a work of art and thinking we cannot use premade loops or that string sounds too generic or whatever, the guys at rcp are making it work. they are spitting out -whatever u wanna called it" out the door and getting gigs cause they can go next door and find someone who can make some cues so the movie is in time for delivery. 
thats all producers and directors care.. making it work, be on time and budget. 
if they hired you is becuase they like your music and styles. if its generic or whatever is up to them. 

with that said i have met a few guys there and man they are douchbags.. (or divas)
interesting enough HZ is the nicer one there that i ve met. maybe there others. 

which goes along w/ my theory that if you make it your nice and cool , but on your way up you have to be or are a doughbag. (in general, there are exceptions)


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## synthetic (Jan 4, 2009)

Wow Kays, did ya lose a gig to a RCP composer or something? I just laid it out for the guy cause he seems interested. Good a place as any to learn the ropes -- I can think of worse places to work right out of college.


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## midphase (Jan 4, 2009)

Just to clarify, I don't think anyone at RCP is a douchebag (at least not that I know of)...I was referring to those idiotic studio producers whom we all have run into at one point or another in our careers.

It's one thing to occasionally have to deal with one of those idiots from time to time (I had to on a project I did last year)....but it's a completely different thing to have to deal with them EVERY TIME!

So my statement was a word of caution and not a statement on the wonderful folks at RCP (at least that I know of) to any up and coming composer that just because you're rubbing elbows with the big players in the film studios...it doesn't mean that you'll necessarily feel like you're artistically fulfilled.

Then again...some people are perfectly happy being yes-men and button-pushers!


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## midphase (Jan 4, 2009)

"Wow Kays, did ya lose a gig to a RCP composer or something? "

Ha...nope...not in that league...however now that I think about it...I did lose a film a couple of months ago to someone who must have been the 2nd-intern-to-the-coffee-and-doughnuts-specialist-intern (at least his IMDB credits said so).

It never ceases to amaze me how some directors are so easily star-struck when they see Spider Man 3 or PotC on someone's IMDB credits, and yet not really ask themselves how involved said person actually was with the music in the film or was he just making sure that the GS machine was running smoothly?

Like for example...can someone explain to me exactly what does a "score co-producer" or a "consultant: musical score" or a "technical music advisor" do?


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## PolarBear (Jan 4, 2009)

midphase @ Mon Jan 05 said:


> Like for example...can someone explain to me exactly what does a "score co-producer" or a "consultant: musical score" or a "technical music advisor" do?


In terms of composing actual music?


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## gsilbers (Jan 4, 2009)

midphase @ Sun Jan 04 said:


> "Wow Kays, did ya lose a gig to a RCP composer or something? "
> 
> Ha...nope...not in that league...however now that I think about it...I did lose a film a couple of months ago to someone who must have been the 2nd-intern-to-the-coffee-and-doughnuts-specialist-intern (at least his IMDB credits said so).
> 
> ...




that could be a whole other topic by itself. creidts matter and its grey area for example if producers or executives dont know about music. like in your example. 

i worked as an assistant and did additional engineering on an album that got nominated for a grammy last year... you guys can understand that right? but my family just understood that i was nominated for a grammy >8o 
id try to explain but they just wanted to hear hollywood gossip :roll: 

on the other side, i met a guy who would kept saying he is working on a production for "big name artist" and is talking to another "big name artist" for which he has worked before, but i am like, dude.. who are you kidding.? but some fall into that. which sucks.


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## JB78 (Jan 4, 2009)

I don't get how by following the plan Synthetic laid out, that anyone will have the time to work on the actual craft of composing? 
I'd rather spend that time working on my composing chops than trouble shooting equipment and software all day and night. 

Like previously mentioned the good (IMO) composers coming out of RCP (Powell, Gregson-Williams) have according to what I've read certainly not gone the tech route.
I guess my point is, what use will the great contacts and connections be when you finally get a shot and you're 10 times better at fixing your setup rather than actually making music?

Best regards
Jon


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## gsilbers (Jan 4, 2009)

midphase @ Sun Jan 04 said:


> Just to clarify, I don't think anyone at RCP is a douchebag (at least not that I know of)...I was referring to those idiotic studio producers whom we all have run into at one point or another in our careers.
> 
> It's one thing to occasionally have to deal with one of those idiots from time to time (I had to on a project I did last year)....but it's a completely different thing to have to deal with them EVERY TIME!
> 
> ...




i agree. 


pd, i met a few of these guys and didnt like them, wont mention names of course. 
still, its like the micheal jackson's, whitney houston , etc that even if their personality is [email protected]&#Y^ their art is amazing (sorry, didnt have better examples of the top of my head but u get the idea) 
so the guys that i met that didnt like, i like their music.


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## gsilbers (Jan 4, 2009)

JB78 @ Sun Jan 04 said:


> I don't get how by following the plan Synthetic laid out, that anyone will have the time to work on the actual craft of composing?
> I'd rather spend that time working on my composing chops than trouble shooting equipment and software all day and night.
> 
> Like previously mentioned the good (IMO) composers coming out of RCP (Powell, Gregson-Williams) have according to what I've read certainly not gone the tech route.
> ...




true! most of them came form elsewhere already kinda known. but i did meet one dude who was an assistant and now composes full time. and another who ghostwrites stuff. and i did meet two assistants who wanted to leave running from there. 
so i guess depends but mainly no. you can also learn a lot but w/o practicing it. the way the composer confronts a scene, tricks and tech stuff. or you could go to school for that.


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## midphase (Jan 4, 2009)

"I don't get how by following the plan Synthetic laid out, that anyone will have the time to work on the actual craft of composing? "

I think he was being facetious and sarcastic....I think.


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## TheoKrueger (Jan 5, 2009)

I might sound a bit naive here, but i think that if you work really hard on your own, and ONE DAY in the future, you send something that no one can deny is GOOD, even if its just one musical piece. Then you will get a lot of positive attention and get a lot more jobs. I think even RCP would hire you if they heard something that was incredibly good. I don't think they are fools to trash something very good (Actually if its very good, they would start being self-conscious and comparing it to their own stuff).

By good i mean something that is above that 80% of the music that goes around and sounds like everything else. Something above mediocrity and the mass music that goes on usually.

Who can deny something of true quality? No one, it just goes past the ears, past the criticism, past all the voices and oppinions straight to the heart of the listener.

Have 5 pieces like that for a resume, i bet it will get you a lot more gigs than someone who has 5 contacts in the industry. That is what a musican should do in the end. Perfect his compositions.


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## JohnG (Jan 5, 2009)

Well, Theo, I think you are correct to caution people against assuming that connections are everything. They are not, but they are still essential, and it is certainly possible to work on connections and all the technical stuff well before having fully matured as a composer. Otherwise, there you are, pencil in hand, with nobody knowing who you are.

Before trying to defend my point, I note a cautionary tale in support of Theo's position. It's certainly possible to be too good at connections before your music is "ready." A parent at our child's school had been a corporate exec at a major technology company but had made a serious commitment to changing careers and getting into music. Partly because of his corporate experience, he's very good at meeting people, getting his name around, etc., and he quickly met a lot of people in the entertainment business. Unfortunately, his music was still not fully there yet. Consequently, he used up his connections by passing around music that still reflected beginners' issues.

So don't do that -- don't put a web site up with mediocre stuff on it. Don't put out CDs to people of influence if you have stuff that you know is not excellent -- composition, sound, performance, tuning -- everything as perfect as it would need to be for the job you want. Better to have three cues and call it a sampler than have ten and have numbers four through ten weak in any way. In that sense, I fully agree with Theo.

But...

People don't hire composers because of music only, as we all know or can surmise. There's a vibe about knowing how to get to the finish line that filmmakers or producers can sense (or believe they can sense), and that comes in part from being around the business. Some guys learn that vibe as orchestrators or players, some as conductors, some as tech guys, but I'd say that vibe is indispensable, in the root meaning as, "you can't get there without it." And I would define that "vibe," generally, as a suite of skills, experience and behaviour that come only with a certain amount of experience producing music: 

1. understanding the composer's place in the hierarchy, 

2. being able to manage resources (technical, players, orchestrators, copyists, engineers, booking recording space, paying everybody, dealing with the union or go overseas -- all of that), 

3. being flexible and fast enough to accommodate changes, notes from people you have never even heard of before, etc. on the fly and still meet a deadline,

4. knowing and being able to bring in specialist players or other skilled people to do special things (synth programmers, zither players, unusual ethnic instruments or percussion, vocalists, and so on),

5. seeing problems developing before they become overwhelming,

and 

6. handling the technology so you can do demos for the producer or director before committing to players.

So back to working for a group of other composers, or even a single composer. Even if you are the second coming of Jerry Goldsmith or Bernard Herrmann, other composers won't necessarily want you around unless you can do something for them. Playing excellent music for people is terrif, but you are a lot more likely to get in the door if you are God's Gift to PC maintenance or ProTools or programming unique synth sounds, because then you have something to offer that is non-threatening and immediately useful.

And a sense of humor is a good idea too.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 5, 2009)

John has just given excellent advice in his post.

Most of the really good projects I have been hired for came to me at least partly through a connection.

Most of the really good projects I have not been hired for I lost to someone with a better connection or track record.

But for the ones I did get hired for, I was prepared and ready.


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## Markus S (Jan 5, 2009)

Any "God's Gift to PC maintenance" here looking for a job? I offer great career perspectives, I'll even might one day work at RC (who knows..just don't count on it).. 

With this said : Really great points, John, and very well expressed!


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2009)

Great stuff, John. Saved to my "best of VI posts" folder. 

And no, I am completely serious with the above. That position was offered to me (and I did not take it.) If I was 22 years old, and the above was offered to me, I might give it a few years to build up my experience and resume. You write music during the downtime as part of "testing your system." As far as networking, you need to find time to do this on your own. There's probably no time to do your own projects while you're there. 

Working at RCP is a 24-7 job. My friend announced he would start taking Sunday mornings off and would get phone calls, "where are you man?" But if it's seriously your goal, you can get there.


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## midphase (Jan 5, 2009)

"And no, I am completely serious with the above."

In that case, the flaw with that plan is that you can spend years and years just to position yourself as a viable candidate (and working a crappy GC type of job) and finally get offered an entry position at RCP just to get fired a couple of weeks later for making a dumb mistake (like saying something wrong, or misunderstanding an instruction) since it seems like there aren't many second chances handed out there. It seems like a good deal of many years to gamble away on something so flimsy....plus there's absolutely no certainty that you'd be hired there in the first place....regardless how great of a tech guy you are.

I think that we all have our path to follow, if your path happens to include working for RCP, then it will happen one way or another, but to alter your life for many years for a slight chance of being hired there is just plainly nuts IMHO.


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## gsilbers (Jan 5, 2009)

midphase @ Mon Jan 05 said:


> "And no, I am completely serious with the above."
> 
> In that case, the flaw with that plan is that you can spend years and years just to position yourself as a viable candidate (and working a crappy GC type of job) and finally get offered an entry position at RCP just to get fired a couple of weeks later for making a dumb mistake (like saying something wrong, or misunderstanding an instruction) since it seems like there aren't many second chances handed out there. It seems like a good deal of many years to gamble away on something so flimsy....plus there's absolutely no certainty that you'd be hired there in the first place....regardless how great of a tech guy you are.
> 
> I think that we all have our path to follow, if your path happens to include working for RCP, then it will happen one way or another, but to alter your life for many years for a slight chance of being hired there is just plainly nuts IMHO.




i dunno,, if you are young and u are set in filmscoring, then working there would give a kick starting learning the technology and the business. but you are right in thinking you are not gong to get a gig there, or maybe not get hired. 
i did an interview there a long time ago, the assistant who interview me had the sadest face,,, he seemed so miserable he was there for one year and someting and from what i got from him was that he didnt have a life and didnt had time to do his own cues. 

but i rather get a tech position with a established composer that works from his house/studio and will put you under his wing instead of "another intern more"


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## José Herring (Jan 5, 2009)

midphase @ Mon Jan 05 said:


> "And no, I am completely serious with the above."
> 
> In that case, the flaw with that plan is that you can spend years and years just to position yourself as a viable candidate (and working a crappy GC type of job) and finally get offered an entry position at RCP just to get fired a couple of weeks later for making a dumb mistake (like saying something wrong, or misunderstanding an instruction) since it seems like there aren't many second chances handed out there. It seems like a good deal of many years to gamble away on something so flimsy....plus there's absolutely no certainty that you'd be hired there in the first place....regardless how great of a tech guy you are.
> 
> I think that we all have our path to follow, if your path happens to include working for RCP, then it will happen one way or another, but to alter your life for many years for a slight chance of being hired there is just plainly nuts IMHO.



Or you could spend your whole life tinkering in the dark not really knowing how to make your tracks sound professional in spite of inherent talent. Tinkering for years not knowing how to set a proper delay or not know what a ticker is. Decades not knowing how to exploit the harmonics in a pad. You could spend two decades trying to learn how to program a synth patch. Another decade to learn what EQ frequency the ear is most sensitive to. Yet another decade trying to figure out how to overdrive a preamp, how to set up a compressor properly. You could waste $100,000 on the wrong hardware and software trying to find the ones that will give you "that sound". Yet another decade trying to find out whether to use a dynamic, small diaphragm condenser or large diaphragm condenser to capture a particular instrument. 



RCP is well worth looking into.


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## midphase (Jan 6, 2009)

Oh geez Jose....really? Are you really implying that the only way you could possibly learn those things is from being employed (abused) by RCP?

I guess we all must suck at what we do then since the majority of the guys around here have never worked there!

I'm sorry but I just don't buy into any of this idolatry, if you choose to, be my guest, but don't try to convince me that if I haven't worked at RCP I must not know what I'm doing.


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## bluejay (Jan 6, 2009)

josejherring @ Tue Jan 06 said:


> Or you could spend your whole life tinkering in the dark not really knowing how to make your tracks sound professional in spite of inherent talent. Tinkering for years not knowing how to set a proper delay or not know what a ticker is. Decades not knowing how to exploit the harmonics in a pad. You could spend two decades trying to learn how to program a synth patch. Another decade to learn what EQ frequency the ear is most sensitive to. Yet another decade trying to figure out how to overdrive a preamp, how to set up a compressor properly. You could waste $100,000 on the wrong hardware and software trying to find the ones that will give you "that sound". Yet another decade trying to find out whether to use a dynamic, small diaphragm condenser or large diaphragm condenser to capture a particular instrument.



Surely that's what VI-Control is here for...


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## Markus S (Jan 6, 2009)

Well, I have to agree there, while it may be very glorious and rewarding to work for RCP, there are many ways to make a living from music and have fun without working there. You shouldn't limit yourself to a certain type of music career, as you might miss great opportunities elsewhere. Look around you and see if you have more "immediate" possibilities!

At least that's what I think, I wish you lot's of success anyway!


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## José Herring (Jan 6, 2009)

midphase @ Tue Jan 06 said:


> Oh geez Jose....really? Are you really implying that the only way you could possibly learn those things is from being employed (abused) by RCP?
> 
> I guess we all must suck at what we do then since the majority of the guys around here have never worked there!
> 
> I'm sorry but I just don't buy into any of this idolatry, if you choose to, be my guest, but don't try to convince me that if I haven't worked at RCP I must not know what I'm doing.



You're way too serious Kay. Nobody is idolizing anybody. I'm saying it's a good way to find out quickly about some very technical stuff that will improve your tracks tremendously.

Nobody is saying it's the only way. I'm just saying it's a fast way.

Truth be told and I don't want to offend or burst anybody's bubble here, but there are not too many people that even know how to properly lock in the timing of their audio tracks to their midi tracks, or that know to even check for phase discrepancies in their tracks, recordings or samples all the tiny little things that start to add up to professional sounding tracks.

Even talking one night with Alan Myerson about proper sized subowoofers, quality monitors and the physics of sound opened my eyes.

Knowledge is knowledge.

It's a good place to learn a lot of stuff.


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## midphase (Jan 6, 2009)

"Nobody is saying it's the only way. I'm just saying it's a fast way. "

The problem is that it's fast only once you get in (if you get in...and last). It might take you years just to get in.

Anyone who is dead set about working at RCP will not be phased by any of this and will follow the path that they feel necessary to follow.

All I say is that there are better, faster, and easier resources available out there so that anyone considering their path can make an educated choice and not one based on hyped expectations.


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## synthetic (Jan 6, 2009)

Yeah, I've learned something from every 15 minute visit I've taken. How could you not learn something there? It's a building full of composers and musicians running the state of the art. 

(I saw Kays' car parked in the back, I think he's just keeping out the competition...)


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## JohnG (Jan 6, 2009)

you know, on your point about spotting his car at RCP, another thing is that "Kays" has an 'a' and an 's' in it, just like "Hans." So maybe there is something going on here. Something a little fishy. 

Even though there's no 'z.'

So it's not a perfect anagram. But still.


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## gsilbers (Jan 6, 2009)

synthetic @ Tue Jan 06 said:


> Yeah, I've learned something from every 15 minute visit I've taken. How could you not learn something there? It's a building full of composers and musicians running the state of the art.
> 
> (I saw Kays' car parked in the back, I think he's just keeping out the competition...)



 :mrgreen:


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## Adam Kurutz (Jan 6, 2009)

:D :D 

Ok guys, 

Now seriously.I know I want to work there as a composer.But is there any way to get in as composer? I mean is there any chance to start working there directly as a lets say additional music guy and so on ? Im really composing-oriented :D 

a.


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## midphase (Jan 7, 2009)

I believe you can get on a waiting list to rent studio space there....at least that's the way Media Ventures used to work.


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## Adam Kurutz (Jan 7, 2009)

Thank you ,but I meant working for them, not renting my space :lol:


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## gsilbers (Jan 7, 2009)

Adam Kurutz @ Wed Jan 07 said:


> Thank you ,but I meant working for them, not renting my space :lol:




no, usually they hire only tech assistants. you will only trouble shoot stuff, make the bounces, bring food and do the scores for the smaller sessions. prep the video, patches maybe and that sort of stuff. 

in rcp the composers will try to get other established composers to help them out with cues or they have composer friends they cans send cues to,. 

but i have a freind there who is an assistant but writes aslo, it took him about 2 years to write a cue and wrote one every so often for 2 more years. now writes way more, but he is also very good. 

the composers that start there most often have a name for themselves and work themselves into rcs via conections, other composers, meeting hanz. 
check each composers resume/bio and see for yourself. 

again, call rcp for the person in charge of hiring assistants. 
and chec my and our previos posts about the tech and ask more specific what u want to learn about the technology they use there.


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## Adam Kurutz (Jan 7, 2009)

Thank you ,


As I mentioned , its not about the technology I want to learn ,its just I wanted to know everything about it I possibly could - sort of very childish and avid curiosity and fascination.

Of course I read all of your posts several ten times,and Im very thankful for your generosity in passing informations.


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## synthetic (Jan 7, 2009)

Like I said, getting in as a tech is you're best bet. Start studying. Go buy a Pro Tools LE system and learn it backwards and forwards. And get your post count way up on this board and others.


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## gsilbers (Jan 7, 2009)

Adam Kurutz @ Wed Jan 07 said:


> Thank you ,
> 
> 
> As I mentioned , its not about the technology I want to learn ,its just I wanted to know everything about it I possibly could - sort of very childish and avid curiosity and fascination.
> ...




so, as i already asked a couple of times.... do you have specific questions.? 
until now i havent judge your reasoning and dream, if you want to go there or learn from there go ahead. 
but you keep saying you want to learn everything related to rcp, there is one dude here who works there, i have been there many times as well as another member of VI. so we can answer a lot of your questions but you need to know those questions. 
becuase rcp doesnt hire interns, they hire assistants who know the technology and will teach a little about their specific setups. so the more you know going in the better.. so think what questions so we can answer them. and dont worry what others think of your choice..


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