# Minor Rant -- Snob Music Faculty



## telecode101 (Sep 2, 2020)

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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 2, 2020)

That's academia for you.


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## telecode101 (Sep 3, 2020)

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## brek (Sep 3, 2020)

This is less about academic snobbery than it is academic bureaucracy. 

Either way, it can be frustrating... But why would you plan to take your grudge out on the professor like that? Especially when it appears they went out of their way to fight the bureaucracy for you.


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## telecode101 (Sep 3, 2020)

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## Rory (Sep 3, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> I think I posted too soon. When this first unfolded, it seemed that he was just fishing for more people to fill the course and waste everyone's time. It's all good now.



Asa matter of curiosity, will these classes be in-person? If you're cool with saying, which university/college?


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## Daryl (Sep 4, 2020)

To be honest, in many music departments there is still an amount of musical snobbery regarding media music. However, like with all stereotypes, there is a some truth in their beliefs. The problem is that the music professors often don't bother to find out more, which, considering that they're academics, I find astounding. To me, just because there are many media composer who don't read music, and have very little understanding of the basically tonal genre in which they write, one shouldn't assume that not only do all media composers have this "quality", but that they have nothing else to offer. However, some of these professors never seem to turn this dismissive attitude on their own colleagues, when despite a huge amount of academic knowledge, musically they often have very little to offer.



In terms of music vs non music students, for a media related course it is swings and roundabouts. One would assume that music students were musically literate, had a basic grasp of harmony, counterpoint, instrumentation and musical history, meaning that, as composers, they wouldn't need to re-invent the wheel at every turn. However, as we all know, in the real world there are many other skills that need to be given the same focus. It i no good being able to write a fantastic piece of music, if you are unable to sequence it, because, as a beginner, nobody is likely to pay for an orchestra the first time round.



So why am I rambling on? Mainly it's because during my lifetime I have had many people be dismissive of what I do for a career, simply because it's considered a much "lower" form of composition. I've had the same from people who profess to be film composers, who think that turning out their drivel is somehow more worthy than the drivel I produce. So, what I'm trying to say is learn as much as you can, from any expert, regarding the things at which they are expert, and ignore the rest, keeping your mouth shut, so as not to antagonise them.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 4, 2020)

Off topic: Mark Isham played in David Sylvian’s 1988 live band and did some gorgeous things together with David Torn on his fretless guitar. It seems those guys really inspired each other to bring out their very best.

Check the song from 55:12 onwards (Gone to earth) and you’ll hear Isham’s honking right away. Gorgeous live recording. The fretless bass player is Ian Maidman, and Sylvian’s brother Steve Jansen is on drums, with Richard Barbieri on synths. Make sure to catch the end of the track where the guitar and trumpet parts really shine!


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## telecode101 (Sep 4, 2020)

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## telecode101 (Sep 4, 2020)

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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

scoreclub is nice FWIW.

If you're bored you can always enjoy james horner speaking to UCLA students. It MUST have drove those professors mad.


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## sinkd (Sep 4, 2020)

Academic Dean to faculty member, some time in August: "Your Film Music class will be canceled unless it more fully enrolled"

Prof sends out email to music and cinema students--turns out they just needed to get the word out and interest in the course is high. Cross-listing takes a couple of days to happen in the system. It is a rigorous class that will include lots of written work and the prof does not have a teaching assistant to help with grading 70 papers at at a time, so the class is limited to 30 or so students to make sure they receive a proper class. This limit is coded into the registration system. Registrar has to tell some students that, regrettably, class is full (no option--registrar cannot override enrollment limits). When asked by cinema student, prof overrides course limit to add student and increase his workload--but not before that student trashes all music faculty as "Shitty A-holes" on a composer forum. OP immediately "takes it back" without altering original post or suggesting it might have been an an unwarranted diatribe.

Angry music professor in Western North Carolina takes too much time responding at 6:00 am before preparing to teach three online sections of music theory to 70 very deserving first year students.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

sinkd said:


> Academic Dean to faculty member, some time in August: "Your Film Music class will be canceled unless it more fully enrolled"
> 
> Prof sends out email to music and cinema students--turns out they just needed to get the word out and interest in the course is high. Cross-listing takes a couple of days to happen in the system. It is a rigorous class that will include lots of written work and the prof does not have a teaching assistant to help with grading 70 papers at at a time, so the class is limited to 30 or so students to make sure they receive a proper class. This limit is coded into the registration system. Registrar has to tell some students that, regrettably, class is full (no option--registrar cannot override enrollment limits). When asked by cinema student, prof overrides course limit to add student and increase his workload--but not before that student trashes all music faculty as "Shitty A-holes" on a composer forum. OP immediately "takes it back" without altering original post or suggesting it might have been an an unwarranted diatribe.
> 
> Angry music professor in Western North Carolina takes too much time responding at 6:00 am before preparing to teach three online sections of music theory to 70 very deserving first year students.


Ya know I was going to say something, but I have no skin in the game and try to avoid ruffling feathers. 


There are a lot of issues with academia though, I wasn't able to go into the music programs at my local unless I went fulltime, which is lame - especially given I would have been placed out of theory, which was the part I was most interested in. Would have still been nice to be able to take other composition/orchestration classes without having to waste a ton of time on principle instruments when I don't care


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## edhamilton (Sep 4, 2020)

Awesome post Sinkd.
Professor is well versed in how to deal with entitled knuckleheads.
The latest crop of knuckleheads being much the same and not any worse than us old knuckleheads were back in our youth - we just didn't have the internet to publish our ridiculousness, thus saving us from eternal embarrassment.

Telecode - consider deleting all of it.
In a few years, such a mistake could really cost you.
Luckily, you're paying (or parents are), so music profs apparently have to eat shit and smile.


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## sinkd (Sep 4, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> Ya know I was going to say something, but I have no skin in the game and try to avoid ruffling feathers.
> 
> 
> There are a lot of issues with academia though, I wasn't able to go into the music programs at my local unless I went fulltime, which is lame - especially given I would have been placed out of theory, which was the part I was most interested in. Would have still been nice to be able to take other composition/orchestration classes without having to waste a ton of time on principle instruments when I don't care


This is a problem with Schools of Music, I agree. Our recruitment and enrollment has to center too much around recruiting performers and music educators and our accreditation forces us to include private instruction (studio lessons) into every music degree. I would love to teach music theory, instrumentation composition and production to students like you, but you would have to learn some keyboard skills


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## Alex Fraser (Sep 4, 2020)

Well that made my morning!

Slightly OT, reminds me of the time I plagiarised large chunks of text from a music theory book as I was rushing the assignment. Got hauled up over it as my lecturers had actually had a hand editing the original book. D'oh. Caught bang to rights.


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## telecode101 (Sep 4, 2020)

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## sinkd (Sep 4, 2020)

@telecode101 Still plan on trashing the prof's book when it comes out?


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

sinkd said:


> This is a problem with Schools of Music, I agree. Our recruitment and enrollment has to center too much around recruiting performers and music educators and our accreditation forces us to include private instruction (studio lessons) into every music degree. I would love to teach music theory, instrumentation composition and production to students like you, but you would have to learn some keyboard skills


I wish I didn't have 2 left hands when it comes to keyboard, but I manage. 

that said, it's mostly an issue with the arbitrary line between vocations and college/university. When you're learning irrational numbers and you're just trying to major in ceramics, it's a little ridiculous. 

the gatekeeping gets just as ass backwards for professors as it does for students, but I don't need to tell you that!


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## telecode101 (Sep 4, 2020)

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## Kent (Sep 4, 2020)

I get that you’re stressed out, and maybe need to rant/vent a bit, but it’s not an excuse to plan a vindictive action:


telecode101 said:


> I will make sure I bad mouth that profs text book when it gets published by Oxford Press one day.


...and _then _to complain about somebody else’s tone. (???)

Frankly, it’s childish and unprofessional.

I think the advice to delete, or at least reword, your screed is sage. To have a clear example enshrined for the world to see of how you reacted trigger-happily and negatively under some stress and pressure is something I would not want for myself—but what do I know, I’m just a rando on the internet same as anyone else 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> What that book turns into is none of my business.
> 
> Based on the tone of your posts on here, I get the impression you seem indifferent to how and why a student could get stressed out and have their schedules messed up due to miscommunication and last minute scrambling between faculty and administrators. This is generally not a good sign.



you DO realize that hes stuck scrambling last minute because of faculty TOO right?

https://www.wcu.edu/learn/departments-schools-colleges/fpa/music/faculty-and-staff/index.aspx incase you missed his bio

I've had some heinous experiences in continued education, this was truly a 1st world problem in comparison. You'll probably see that in hindsight, so get a headstart and slow your roll


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## Kent (Sep 4, 2020)

And @telecode101 if you want a community of peers, early-career composers who share your struggles and frustrations, allow me to link you here: https://vi-control.net/community/th...-early-career-composers-and-assistants.97227/


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## telecode101 (Sep 4, 2020)

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## Karl Feuerstake (Sep 4, 2020)

Music in the Movies was one of the most popular courses I took at the University of Ottawa; 500 students or something crazy like that, most of whom weren't even in the music program. It had to be conducted in an enormous auditorium.

It's a popular topic and I wouldn't blame the professor on the difficulties you've had (fortunately you aren't blaming him any more) - as others have pointed out, it's not his fault the administrative faculty of the music department weren't allowing non-music students to enroll. It seems he was sending the info to other non-music students because he intended them to be able to attend; and due to some bureaucratic mess that wasn't being allowed.

Nonetheless I hope you enjoy the course and I'd wish the Prof the best with it in the future; as I've said above it seems a popular-enough topic with the general public, so he may be tapping a gold vein.


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## telecode101 (Sep 5, 2020)

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## ka00 (Sep 5, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> Just a rant. I am a student and wrapping up degree. So this prof that I took a course with about 2 years ago. It was a joke as the course was pretty much a guinea pig course to proof read and fix grammatical errors in the content of this text book he is writing. He blasts out a email on the listserve for cinema students inviting them to take his new course on Film Music. It's the same damn book he is working on from two years ago. This is a crazy last minute invite. The semester literally starts in 1 week and most students already picked their courses back in July. No one had any idea this course even exists. Anyways, the course contains lots of interviews with professionals in the film and music and music library industry and I am interested. So I bite and offer to sign up. The registrar at Music says, "sorry only Music students allowed to enroll". I send an email to them telling them, the prof blasted the invite to the listserv of cinema students and forward it to them. No reply. Dead silence.
> 
> The prof sends out a second email copying the cinema students that were interested adding more details about the course and confirmed the course can count as a cross listed course towards completion of degree requirements. Once again, dead silence from Music registrar. The Cinema registrar sends confirmation that our student numbers were added to exclusion so we can now enroll into the course.
> 
> ...



I hadn’t heard of Coursera or EDx before you mentioned them. Thanks.

Good luck with your studies.


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## telecode101 (Sep 5, 2020)

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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 5, 2020)

odd I couldn't find a single music related thing I wanted to look at. 

I guess you get what you pay for


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## sinkd (Sep 7, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> What that book turns into is none of my business.
> 
> Based on the tone of your posts on here, I get the impression you seem indifferent to how and why a student could get stressed out and have their schedules messed up due to miscommunication and last minute scrambling between faculty and administrators. This is generally not a good sign.


On the contrary, I spent many hours over the summer double checking about 70 student schedules to make sure that we had a seat for all of our incoming first year students in their core music classes. And I overrode course limits on my own sections in a couple of cases to include a few students from outside the major. Student advising is a big part of my job and I take it very seriously. The scrambling which talk about is often necessary when we are trying to get things right, even at the last minute.

I am just sick of the "That's academia bullshit for you" narrative that your one-sided perspective perpetuates and reinforces, and I hoped that you should delete it, having recanted in your follow-up post.


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## telecode101 (Sep 7, 2020)

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## telecode101 (Dec 16, 2020)

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