# Staffpad or A N other



## MarkBell (Apr 25, 2021)

Hello people,

I'm new to notation software (although I can read & write music at a basic level)

After doing a little research on notation software Im finding that Staffpad is not usually "up there" with the top recommendations

Clearly it is well used and received on VI and I think it would be a good fit personally as I already use all of the Cinesamples libs

So bottom line are there any other recommended options or do you guess this would be best fit?

TIA


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## Jett Hitt (Apr 25, 2021)

StaffPad is not a notation program. It is a compositional tool that happens to have a notation component. If you are just looking to notate music, go download Musescore for free. On the other hand, if composition with playback is your end goal, StaffPad may just fit the bill. Ask your doctor if StaffPad is right for you. (Side effects may include dizziness, insomnia, poverty, and divorce.)


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## MarkBell (Apr 25, 2021)

Ah ok thanks for clarifying Jett

Time is the thing I need more of to be honest!


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## cmillar (Apr 25, 2021)

My two cents.... it depends on how fussy you are and what your actual end goal is.

(disclaimer: I personally don't care about a notation program giving me a 'finalized', 'ready for release', 'authentically accurate' reproduction of what I'm composing or arranging. Most of my projects are composing for actual musicians who will play the music. I'm more interested in how easy it is to actually notate my music and then print out parts. Also, most of my actual projects are not big orchestral works. I am working on projects for string players, jazz groups large and small, string quartets, woodwinds, or for live musicians that might be overdubbing or playing overtop of pre-recorded virtual instruments, which could be orchestral in nature)

So, for pure notating, I find using a MIDI keyboard and Sibelius note entry methods to be the easiest, most musically friendly solution.

I've been trying to love StaffPad, but all too often there will be instances where it just won't recognize my notation. Sometimes the program is awesome, and you can cruise along for....a minute or so....and all is well.....just like paper and pencil!.

But then, I'll have to spend 20 minutes trying to enter something that would take 2 seconds in Sibelius.

I've wasted more actual composing time in StaffPad trying to get it to recognize various 'inputs'.

And I'm patient! And my handwriting is good. I've used 'Notion iOS' and still have it on an iPad, and I'll find that it will pick up my handwriting perfectly well for the same thing I'm trying to do in StaffPad.

The appeal of StaffPad was to be able to rest my hand anywhere on the pad without messing things up, and being able to see easily see more of the score paper.

(....for rough sketching fun, I might go back to Notion iOS!)

Anyways, StaffPad my be what you're after if you're very patient and are glued to doing music for orchestral instruments. (To be fair, there are some other instrumental offerings that can accomplish other musical needs; but nothing matches what you can do with an actual DAW.)

Bringing up the point of; an actual DAW will still give you the best 'playback' of any music if you're willing to play some parts in by hand, do some real instrumental 'finessing', fine tune some imported MXML files that have been exported properly, need to use drums, other rhythm instruments, synthesizers, etc.

But, if you actually want ease of notation, then I'd recommend sticking with Sibelius (or Dorico, Finale, MuseScore, Notion)

If you have all the time in the world, don't have any deadline pressures, don't mind losing your 'musical flow' while trying to figure out why StaffPad can't notate what you desire, then go for it.

For me, the bottom line is always: what tools serve my purpose to stay creative, inspired, and most importantly...productive.

Pencil and paper and piano.....and then putting the music into Sibelius quite easily.

But, Sibelius can actually be very friendly for the actual composing process as well and can be rather 'transparent' to the creative notation process depending on the project. (note: depending on the project!)

I write this response after years of trying all kinds of composing gadgets, and dreaming of anything that makes musical life 'easier'. From using different types of mechanical pencils, different leads, erasers, score papers, computers, notation programs, different DAW's screens, etc. etc. etc.

Am still trying to figure it out! But, that's half the fun; with one caveat.

Find what works best for you so that you don't waste time when you actually need to get something done!


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## MarkBell (Apr 25, 2021)

Excellent points cmillar, appreciate your input

Given my hand writing is terrible and Im pretty impatient I may not fit with this product!

End goal is the key point. I suppose whilst I am 20 years ish fluent in Logic (Pc days with Session 8! ) , I'm a beginner+ (15 months) in Piano looking for something to assist in my slow learning (notation etc), whilst helping with orchestral mocks up. I want a product to use outside of the studio and I currently use an Ipad pro (Playground sessions, Udemy etc) with Yamaha Piano so the Staffpad fit looks appealing

I will look in Sibelius thank you


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## Jett Hitt (Apr 25, 2021)

cmillar said:


> But then, I'll have to spend 20 minutes trying to enter something would take 2 seconds in Sibelius.


This is the elephant in the room, and it will have to be addressed eventually. Most of us who successfully use StaffPad have likely figured out that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Entering notes into a measure is an incremental process unless it is a very simple measure. Try doing one beat at a time. Start slowly. Draw four quarter notes on the centerline, click outside the bar. Now add a beam and make it four eighths, click outside the bar. Add a second beam and make it four sixteenths, click outside the bar. Drag the noteheads to the desired pitches. You now have a beat of sixteenth notes.

This quickly becomes a fast and fluid process, and you will be able to skip some steps and enter more complicated things without clicking outside the bar. 


MarkBell said:


> I will look in Sibelius thank you


Personally, I wouldn't touch Sibelius with a ten-foot pole. It is dead, archaic software. If you must throw money at the problem, at least get Dorico. But seriously, Musescore is free, and you can download it right now.


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## dcoscina (Apr 25, 2021)

MarkBell said:


> Excellent points cmillar, appreciate your input
> 
> Given my hand writing is terrible and Im pretty impatient I may not fit with this product!
> 
> ...


Sibelius is very good for a lot of things- it's one of the industry standards for sure. Thanks to Jett, I actually tried MuseScore and, being an older fart, I like its retro 90s GUI. reminds me of the day when I used Mastertracks Pro and Encore in tandem. However, I've also been using Dorico quite a bit lately and think it's catching up rather quickly. Some things are gloriously fast on Dorico compared to Sibelius, while others are puzzlingly complex and convoluted... my only concern with Sibelius is how much life does it have left in it? I suppose a lot since it's still the industry standard (next to Finale) but one never knows if Avid will pull another bone-headed move and discontinue it or sell it off..

For pure finishing of scores, I would agree Sibelius has some functions that are much easier to adopt compared to the competition. and I personally love the composing features like Ideas and retrograde.


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## wcreed51 (Apr 25, 2021)

Do be aware that your Cinesamples libs won't work with StaffPad, which uses special editions of them


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## MarkBell (Apr 25, 2021)

Thanks Jett I will look into Musescore as well

I had noted, and its frustrating, having to purchase the Staffpad libraries given I already own most of them in their "full capacity". I think Its the same across all developers as well meaning x 3 the frustration


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## cmillar (Apr 25, 2021)

MarkBell said:


> Excellent points cmillar, appreciate your input
> 
> Given my hand writing is terrible and Im pretty impatient I may not fit with this product!
> 
> ...


You're welcome.... good suggestions too to check out 'MuseScore', which is free or pretty cheap. 

Sibelius has a free version you can check out in order to get the feel of it as well, Sibelius-First.

I spent money on Dorico as well, and have really tried to love it as well. No doubt it's pretty awesome for a lot of things, but...faster, easier than Sibelius? Debatable, and totally depends on what you expect out of a notation program.

Sibelius owners all hope that Avid just keeps supporting the product. Every upgrade is pretty awesome! 

The real 'big-time' users of Sibelius and Finale (those who make a great living as professional copyists/orchestrators where 'time is money') are too busy to comment in these forums, but they do browse them once in awhile.

And most of them are using Sibelius and Finale for their work.


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## dcoscina (Apr 25, 2021)

cmillar said:


> You're welcome.... good suggestions too to check out 'MuseScore', which is free or pretty cheap.
> 
> Sibelius has a free version you can check out in order to get the feel of it as well, Sibelius-First.
> 
> ...


Omni Music Publishing uses Sibelius and their books look amazing. I think for purely engraving, Sibelius does most things faster and easier than Dorico at this point. And it looks really nice. MuseScore does have a new font that looks amazing however and I can see using it more given that they bought StaffPad and I'm sure they will play together very well in upcoming iterations.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Apr 25, 2021)

There is no other to N.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Apr 28, 2021)

When I started using computers for notation I used Notion which I found relatively easy and friendly. Ran on iPad and PC (and other platforms) which was good for me. When I reached scores with 14 instruments it started to choke on iPad so I moved to Finale on PC then to Sibelius. Both are excellent at engraving but need to get used to for casual work. Then recently I tried Dorico Pro 3.5, liked it and bought it. Now it's a toss between Sibelius, Dorico or Notion for less intensive jobs.

For me (traditionally-trained avant-garde composer) notation usually ends up with written instructions to performers as many times no standard notation exists at all.


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## dcoscina (Apr 28, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> When I started using computers for notation I used Notion which I found relatively easy and friendly. Ran on iPad and PC (and other platforms) which was good for me. When I reached scores with 14 instruments it started to choke on iPad so I moved to Finale on PC then to Sibelius. Both are excellent at engraving but need to get used to for casual work. Then recently I tried Dorico Pro 3.5, liked it and bought it. Now it's a toss between Sibelius, Dorico or Notion for less intensive jobs.
> 
> For me (traditionally-trained avant-garde composer) notation usually ends up with written instructions to performers as many times no standard notation exists at all.


I find writing aleatoric sections in Sibelius a little easier than Dorico (hiding note stems, etc). I enjoy Dorico for a lot of things but it still has some work to do insofar as fluidity and workflow...

Would love to hear some of your music btw.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Apr 28, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I enjoy Dorico for a lot of things but it still has some work to do insofar as fluidity and workflow...
> Would love to hear some of your music btw.


Agreed about Dorico being on the right track  but it's (yet) another way of working. My head is spinning bteween learning new notation software, new libraries, new DAW features, etc.  I don't pretend to be a Sibelius expert as my needs evolved from pure scoring for orchestra and choirs to more and more hybrid compositions.

But recently I scored a piece for solo cello and multimedia in Dorico for which I had to define new symbols and explicitely write instructions to translate my intentions to the cellist. That live recording (concert was April 14 in Moscow) will be posted soon. In my signature you will find all my sites. You can check in particular this trio performance on YouTube entitled _My Crimea_




Thanks from a fellow Canadian


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## dcoscina (Apr 28, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Agreed about Dorico being on the right track  but it's (yet) another way of working. My head is spinning bteween learning new notation software, new libraries, new DAW features, etc.  I don't pretend to be a Sibelius expert as my needs evolved from pure scoring for orchestra and choirs to more and more hybrid compositions.
> 
> But recently I scored a piece for solo cello and multimedia in Dorico for which I had to define new symbols and explicitely write instructions to translate my intentions to the cellist. That live recording (concert was April 14 in Moscow) will be posted soon. In my signature you will find all my sites. You can check in particular this trio performance on YouTube entitled _My Crimea_
> 
> ...



Really nice composition! I love the fullness of it. The contrast in texture and the balance between tonal figures and atonal sections.


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## MarkBell (Apr 29, 2021)

Tatiana, DCosina..thank you for your input useful and helpful

Keep up the great work!


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## Danilebob (Apr 30, 2021)

I know a composer who swears by Sibelius and was impressed by some of the score work I could produce in Finale. Not that he was impressed by my work, but he was impressed you could actually get a good-looking score in Finale. There's a learning curve, but you can get stuff done pretty fast and the playback isn't atrocious (it is atrocious by DAW standards).
Musescore is a great place to start for free. However, I've never seen a score from Musescore that I couldn't identify as Musescore. I'm thinking if you want it for professional publications, get Sibelius or Finale or Dorico (Dorico has been all the rage the last few years; I don't own it). Musescore is a great starting point to learn how everything works, but I've heard a lot of their users hate switching to Finale or Sibelius after the fact. Mostly because the key commands and how everything works is just different enough to be annoying.
Staffpad seems to be a great sketching tool. I'm not sure how printing scores look or work, but it seems great for tablet sharing and sessions that everyone is using pdfs. Not sure what the limitations are on it; I just know for selling and bragging about how scores look, you'll have to pay the moneys somewhere.


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