# New Studio Build! (Acoustic advice needed)



## BenBotkin (Jun 3, 2016)

Hey audiophiles and studio build gurus, I need some acoustic treatment help. 

I am planning a studio build and have a 12'x20' (or 12'x18', or 12'x22, etc.') room to work with. 

I plan to use the room for my DAW setup--so composing, mixing, and mastering (I do not expect to do super high-end mastering in this room). I do not *plan* on doing any recording in the room, so acoustic perfection is not my goal. Also, isolating the room from exterior sounds (or from letting sound escape) is not my primary concern, but I DO want the space inside the room to be acoustically solid and offer decently accurate audio monitoring. 

OK, a few deets about the room. I am building the structure and room FROM SCRATCH, so I have *some* flexibility regarding room shape, dimensions, and materials used (the limitation is budget...surprise). The ceiling will NOT be flat, but will be either arched or peaked. The current plan is for the four walls to remain rectangular and add some acoustic package (like the Primacoustic London 16) to the room. The current plans for both the wall and ceiling is to have a single layer of R13 insulation and then a 1/2" layer of drywall. The floor will be some type of wood laminate, likely with a large area rug covering some of it. Cheap, I know. 

HOWEVER, this is where I really need some input... for the way I will be using the room, are there any STRUCTURAL changes I should make to the room (like angling in walls or corners, or adding more insulation behind the drywall, etc.) since I'm building the room from scratch and have (structurally) the flexibility to do so? My budget for acoustic considerations is about $1,500-2,000 (materials only--I'm doing the labor). How much should I spend on acoustic panels/traps and how much should I tweak the characteristics of the room itself? What would be the best bang for my (quite limited!) buck in this scenario?

ALSO, FYI, I'm planning to add a few windows in the room, which I know is not acoustically ideal, but I'm not really looking to create a cave. 

Thanks so much, guys!

Ben


----------



## Saxer (Jun 3, 2016)

To be serious: it's not possible to give advice to a room when there's no measured data. Get someone who has references in building studio rooms. Even if it costs money. Everything else is just playing lottery.


----------



## Tanuj Tiku (Jun 3, 2016)

The best way to do this is to hire an expert in some capacity even if you need to wait a bit to save money. Saxer is right, rest is just playing lottery. 

You will waste most of your money. 

Certainly, you cannot do any mastering in such a room. So, you need to manage your expectations. Acoustic perfection should be your goal if you are going to offer mastering services. You need to be able to hear everything in detail. 

Mastering is mastering. There is no such thing as super-high-end mastering. 

As you say you do not need much isolation that is OK but you do need good acoustic control and without a good designer or seeking help from someone who really knows this stuff, it is going to be a miss for the money you will spend. 

The only way to get the best bang for your money, is to hire a designer. They are not super expensive and can help you achieve a decent sound even if your budget is not huge. And then you can wait until you have enough money to do this to a pro level.

Looks like you have a decently sized room and I hope you will find the right person for the job locally. 

Good luck!


----------



## wst3 (Jun 3, 2016)

Random thoughts...

yes, hire a studio designer, or maybe an acoustician that is familiar with studio design, even if only to 'approve' your design. 

nothing wrong with windows if you place them correctly... I prefer a little daylight myself! And the only studio I ever built with no windows was not appreciably better than those that had windows.
you have the luxury of building from scratch... do NOT fritter it away. Room dimensions and especially shape will solve dozens of problems that will cost more to fix later.
recognize that you need to address (from a construction perspective) isolation and acoustics - isolation means keeping noise inside inside, and noise outside outside, acoustics is a terribly misused term that describes the listening experience - and you want a room suitable for critical listening.
Isolation requires mass! Turns out it really is that simple - until you get to the part where you can't live in an air-tight room<G>!
Low frequency behavior depends on room dimensions and room shape. High frequency behavior will likely ignore the room, but will be affected by diffusion, reflection, and absorption. Why do we need a 10 octave range for human hearing???
You did not mention height... height is your friend!
Consider 'main' monitors that mount in the wall - the difference is amazing!
trade-offs: parallel walls, floor, and ceiling make it really easy to calculate/predict room behavior, but they cause problems. Non-parallel surfaces solve problems, but calculating or predicting room behavior is nigh on impossible.

recognize that there is a difference between composing, tracking, mixing, and mastering. The requirements for composing are minimal, just needs to sound nice, tracking adds the requirement for accuracy - not a huge deal if you are only working with virtual instruments, but still valuable, mixing ups the ante a bit, accuracy is still important, but translation is added to the mix (couldn't resist). Mastering - well it is an entirely different set of requirements, and it would be nearly impossible to build a room for tracking and mixing that would also work for mastering. You could, I suppose, build a room suitable for mastering that was usable for tracking and mixing, but it would be expensive.
don't forget the utilities - HVAC, light, and what was it... oh yeah, power. And don't forget that each of these can eat up space, and generate noise. Address these early on, and consider hiring specialists if your acoustician is just an acoustician. You could probably skip a lighting specialist, but you want an electrician that understands the concept of "technical power" and you want an HVAC designer that knows how to keep that stuff quiet!
Leave some space for the equipment! An equipment room, or even closet can make all the difference in the world.
Consider some of the newer technologies that will let you route MIDI and even audio over a local area network.
Do not underestimate your network requirements<G>!
You can, if you are so inclined, learn all this stuff yourself. It depends a bit on your level of curiousity, your patience, your schedule, and your budget. It isn't rocket science. But you can't trust the internet on this one - there is so much bad information out there it is frightening. And in some cases I mean really frightening, as in there is advice that could place you in peril.

Oh yeah... have fun!


----------



## BenBotkin (Jun 3, 2016)

Thanks for all the great feedback, guys!

Yeah, as I was typing up my questions I started to wonder how giving advice would really work without tons of measurement data... but at least getting a consensus that professional consulting is the way to go gives me some clarity on that path. 

I live in the greater Nashville area so I'm sure there are several guys around with expertise... out of curiosity though, is there anyone else in the Nashville area that would recommend a specific individual?


----------



## BenBotkin (Jun 3, 2016)

Tanuj Tiku said:


> Mastering is mastering. There is no such thing as super-high-end mastering.



Perhaps mastering is not the right word... perhaps more like... amateur--ing... 

I do not have any intention of offering mastering services, merely to try to get my own music sounding as good on my own as I reasonably can. I suppose this is really more of a composing room than anything else--but getting a half-way accurate reading from my speakers in here would be huge. If only you saw where I was working at the moment...


----------



## higgs (Jun 3, 2016)

A few years back I spoke with Russ Berger and he provided some consultation for a space I was working on. He is not cheap, but is worth every cent. If you've not heard of him, Russ really is one of the best in the field of acoustics and acoustical design. I'd highly recommend you speak either with him (or one of his associates) or someone with a good reputation in the field. Don't muck about with acoustics - without question I'd take a mediocre set of speakers in a well-balanced/properly treated room over an awesome/expensive set of speakers in a mediocre room - absolutely no question.

I've also worked a bunch with Randy Sieg at soundproofing.org - he's a crazy man (good crazy) and really knowledgable. Randy also sells lots of acoustic building supplies, materials and other products suited for studio build-outs. His consultations were priceless for my remodel last year. I just bought products from him and received heaps of sound advice - pun not intended. Randy is a great resource for the build-out phase.

Russ Berger: rbdg.com
Randy Seig: soundproofing.org


----------



## mc_deli (Jun 3, 2016)

Read stuff on the John Sayers forum and learn the basics. And when you hire contractors to do the actual build: trust no one!


----------



## higgs (Jun 3, 2016)

mc_deli said:


> trust no one!


Absolutely.

You are in charge of quality control. Surrendering that control to anyone else is ill-advised and a fast track to insanity.

That John Sayer forum is great, and so is this: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/
Read all of the sticky threads and you'll be happy!


----------



## BenBotkin (Jun 6, 2016)

Thanks for the recommendations, higgs and mc_deli! Looks like I've got more reading to do...


----------



## gjelul (Jun 6, 2016)

BenBotkin said:


> Hey audiophiles and studio build gurus, I need some acoustic treatment help.
> 
> I am planning a studio build and have a 12'x20' (or 12'x18', or 12'x22, etc.') room to work with.
> 
> ...




I built my own studio, and these are things I would consider a necessity:

- Hire a studio designer, even if it is for just one hour.

- Start from an ideal studio scenario and then go backwards and make your compromises based on your means. You're saying you don't want to do recordings and such in the room. However, how do you know what's going to happen in a few years down the line? If you need to record at that time...?

- Foresee that it will probably take more time than what you're thinking it will.
- Foresee that it will probably take more $ than what you're thinking it will. 

- Machine room / enclosure: not only the machine noise is contained, but you also keep the machines in perfect running condition, reduce heat in your work area also (A/C-ied).

- Room treatment: if you're budget is about 2K, then your best option is to just get the 'room packages' that Primacoustics sells, for example. I think they have something called like the "London Room" or similar. Or do the panels yourself - with materials and time though I am not sure it will make sense to go this direction.

- Bass traps: you can never have enough.

Have fun!


----------



## higgs (Jun 6, 2016)

BenBotkin said:


> Thanks for the recommendations, higgs and mc_deli! Looks like I've got more reading to do...


Of course!

Feel free to reach out with questions.


----------



## higgs (Jun 6, 2016)

gjelul said:


> Room treatment: if you're budget is about 2K, then your best option is to just get the 'room packages' that Primacoustics sells, for example.


GIK has similarly priced and branded and kits which I prefer. I've got two London kits that I installed in the booth, and GIK panels & traps throughout the listening room. Talk with Tom Stevens over there - they offer free room analyses to help you get the best bang for the buck. The price/performance ratio is very good with GIK's products. They're all over the Gearslutz forum.


----------



## rgames (Jun 6, 2016)

Lots of good advice above - one thing that I don't see get enough attention is the lighting. In particular, noise from the lights. I've been in a number of really nice studios with really nice lights that make a really annoying whine. Same thing with computer monitors and other screens.

Not often a problem but worth thinking about before you design them in.

Good luck getting lighting manufacturers to give you SPL measurements


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 6, 2016)

Bill:



> it would be nearly impossible to build a room for tracking and mixing that would also work for mastering



I'm curious why you say there's a difference between rooms set up for mixing and mastering, Bill.

This is a new one on me - which doesn't mean there's no difference, just that I'm at a loss what it could be.


----------



## stonzthro (Jun 6, 2016)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Bill:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How much you can charge, obviously


----------

