# Production/Library music, i can't hear it anymore!



## Stevie (Mar 10, 2009)

It is really a curse. Every publisher I contacted recently wants production music.
They do not give away composer jobs but want to collect more an more music for
their library. The only one who is really making a good deal is the publisher himself,
because he is the one who gets (always) money when a client decides to use music from his library.

You are also sick of it?
I am surely not gonna compose library music for free in my spare time...


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## Stevie (Mar 10, 2009)

Actually the publisher pays you here as well, if your music gets used. But if the publisher has a library consisting of 10000 songs, the chance you will ever get chosen, is very small. It's more like russian roulette.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 10, 2009)

Understood, but the point is that a *good* publisher will ask you for what he or she can sell. Just taking cues and burying them amidst piles of absolute crap (which describes most production music) is what a bad publisher does.

Anyone who's ever done any music editing will tell you that finding the right cues is what takes the most time, so to make life easy you'll always go to the libraries with the good stuff.


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## Stevie (Mar 10, 2009)

Well, I guess that's really a matter of finding the right ones then. 
Another problem is, you can virtualy not offer anything that sounds like a Hollywood production here in Germany (too big!).


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## Waywyn (Mar 10, 2009)

Stevie @ Tue Mar 10 said:


> Well, I guess that's really a matter of finding the right ones then.
> Another problem is, you can virtualy not offer anything that sounds like a Hollywood production here in Germany (too big!).



Sorry, but this is not true. I know a lot of companies who really appreciate the shit I am doing and they say it the other way round:

Germans (not all of course) are too precise, clean and stiff with a broom sticking up their a**. Most of them stick to their old JV1080 synth and still think that those string sounds and articulations are the top notch stuff which sounds professional no matter what. Sample libraries? Nah, you always need to load so many articulations - samples suck! >8o .... Sym .... Sympho ... what?


PS: The best thing is, to watch german tv series. They always want to go "hollywood" in terms of special effects and stories etc. ... but some music sounds as you would listen to that demo song of that new solo entertainer keyboard in the display windows of your local music store.


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## Stevie (Mar 10, 2009)

Hey Alex,



Waywyn @ Tue Mar 10 said:


> Sorry, but this is not true. I know a lot of companies who really appreciate the [email protected]#t I am doing and they say it the other way round:
> 
> Germans (not all of course) are too precise, clean and stiff with a broom sticking up their a**. Most of them stick to their old JV1080 synth and still think that those string sounds and articulations are the top notch stuff which sounds professional no matter what. Sample libraries? Nah, you always need to load so many articulations - samples suck! >8o .... Sym .... Sympho ... what?



Haha, I know exactly what you mean. I'm not going into detail... You never know
who is watching here 
Well, I did not actually mean companies but rather TV stations, directors, etc...


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## Waywyn (Mar 10, 2009)

Stevie @ Tue Mar 10 said:


> Hey Alex,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hehe, yeh, that's why I wrote on some shows and not everyone in germany :D
There are lots of talented guys around in this country for sure, but I originally met a guy a while ago who loaded up one of my libs (I can't remember which one it was) and told me the lib kinda sucks because you cannot play fast with that sus patch :D

I think the main reason is, that we have a few licencing companies who offer music for like 20 bucks with NO restriction. Means a hollywood director could come up there and get a whole score for like 500 bucks. Luckily noone of this calibre would buy that music ... some of it is good, but most ... well 
Also there are good companies which offer basic licences, but if you want to have it for tv spots, movies or other stuff which is going to be on air, they try to sell your stuff professionally. Unfortunately the licence companies I mentioned first doesn't make it easy and kind of destroy the value of music.


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## Andreas Moisa (Mar 10, 2009)

> Haha, I know exactly what you mean. I'm not going into detail... You never know who is watching here



YOU BETTER WATCH OUT!

:D Ah, whatever....


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## Stevie (Mar 10, 2009)

LOL!
Well, no one I mean is in this forum. But hey, you know these cheap Roland Pianos, Strings, Flutes, etc... that we hear daily on TV! Confess! :lol:


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## lux (Mar 10, 2009)

Stevie, 

small libs/publishers interested in your music can pay you some advance on pieces, it happens often. Most of them are overseas though, from a little experience i would say that this kind of market tend to suck big time in europe (i will not tell about my shitty country....)

Sure adding pieces to someone's catalogue for the sake of it leads nowhere and will most likely earn you something very close to zero. But if you pull off dedicated and focused stuff you're likely to have advance money and perhaps placements.

Just stay away from Europe.

Luca


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## Stevie (Mar 10, 2009)

Hey Luca,

that somehow confirms my assumptions. I have never seen any publisher yet
that pays you in advance (here in Germany). They all want to collect songs for their growing library. The situation is pretty much that, as Alex described it. You get songs for 30€ with no limitations. From what Nick said, the situation in US is much better.

Best,

Stevie


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## gsilbers (Mar 10, 2009)

oh, you germans... :mrgreen: 

but you get that here also. there are diferent levels of production and depends on the production and producers. 

i'm guessing thatin germany as well as other countries, which tv productions and filmaking is not that common then producers do not understand the value or the intricacies of music production libraries and want to cheap out in any way they can. 

but that hapens here with a lot of shows you dont get there. man, those reality shows in deep cable about nothing that no one care. 

in some cases they use music to cover up bad production audio. >8o 
oh, and the omf's .. oh my gato! (o) terrible! 

i recently got a deal to give 6 tracks for a mx production library. the tracks where from my electronic music phase so i dont care that much but the deal is 300 for each
and the prod library owns it. well, i get half of each license given and i get performance royalties but i canot use them anymore, which as i said i dont mind them. i made them in about half a day and their not that good.
but i wouldnt use those in a show :(


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## Stevie (Mar 10, 2009)

Hey gsilbers,

yeah those f$&ng Germans ;D
Exactly, you hit the nail on its head.

Ah exclussive usage then, but still, 300? That's a lot. Here you get *nothing*
for producing or exclussive usage. Maybe in the best case a different royality splitting, but that's it. That's at least my humble experience.

Greets,

Stevie


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## lux (Mar 10, 2009)

> i'm guessing thatin germany as well as other countries, which tv productions and filmaking is not that common then producers do not understand the value or the intricacies of music production libraries and want to cheap out in any way they can.





> but that hapens here with a lot of shows you dont get there. man, those reality shows in deep cable about nothing that no one care.



i think gsilbers made a good point, of course. Nothing is all gold or all s**t

There something to consider, at least in my experience. 

- American libraries are pretty open to consider artists from other countries. Indeed.

- For this reason looking for a local version of library music providers doesnt make sense for europeans, also for what gsilbers explained so well above

- Real problem with local market is developing a decently serious career as a musician. Thats the big hole i've found. One of the reasons so many guys decide to move overseas. 

So i personally would point more the attention on the shitty approach our producers/directors have, and the overall poor quality of the production chain. In my country this looks at times almost unreal how much it sucks.


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## Hannes_F (Mar 10, 2009)

The general production level of the whole sound department is sometimes exceptionally bad in Germany, unfortunately. I don't blame german sound engineers in general. After all Neumann and Sennheiser are german too and we have some of the best orchestras in the world. Listen to "The Perfume" recorded by the Berlin Philharmonics and you know what I mean.

But obviously the circumstances for TV productions are not always the best. Recently they produced a multi-episode "movie of the week" starring well-known german actors, including shooting on another continent, digital cameras of the newest generation, special effects and whatnot. The look was like cinema, the sound was like a local radio station project (badly looped dialogue, synthy sounding cliché music). Result ... the whole project had a cheap look-and-feel, not Hollywood at all.

Another example was an international co-production for cinema, shooting in germany but also multiple other countries and continents, starring both international and german actors. The music was decent, picture and cut top notch, effects and stunts expensive for sure ... the dialog sync and athmo sound subpar. They must have been finishing this in an incredible hurry.

Of course they always can say "nobody really listens to the sound and music. So come on, let's do it quick and fast". But I am waiting for the day when some scientific experiment proves how much it actually _costs _to cheap out in music and sound. Because even if people do not listen conciously they assign an overall value to the whole product, and there is a strong contribution coming from the ears IMO.

I am not complaining, what I say is that there is a big chance for a new approach and quality offensive.


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## gsilbers (Mar 10, 2009)

lux @ Tue Mar 10 said:


> > i'm guessing thatin germany as well as other countries, which tv productions and filmaking is not that common then producers do not understand the value or the intricacies of music production libraries and want to cheap out in any way they can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i think gsilbers made a good point, of course. Nothing is all gold or all s**t

There something to consider, at least in my experience. 

- American libraries are pretty open to consider artists from other countries. Indeed.

- For this reason looking for a local version of library music providers doesnt make sense for europeans, also for what gsilbers explained so well above

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## Stevie (Mar 10, 2009)

Yep Hannes and Luca , all so true what you said.

@Hannes, I would like to know which movies you mean. If not in public then via pm 


Best,

Stevie


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