# Staffpads Standard Piano Library and dynamics



## MadLad (Dec 24, 2020)

Hey, fellow composers,

since I bought the Berlin Strings First chair library I've been writing a whole lot of chamber music lately. But I've always had this problem with the standard Piano library. The transition from mezzoforte to Forte is completely disproportionate. Everything below forte seems very silent because of that. But the forte sounds are sometimes way too loud and I NEVER write Fortissimo for the piano because it's just insanely loud.

I have no idea what causes this. Does anyone know if there is a way to have equally distributed volumes for the piano library? Because of this it's extremely hard to find a balance when combining the piano with other instruments. I even have to compressor at 50% and the Forte is still too loud.

Thanks in advance.


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 24, 2020)

Welcome to the wonderful world of samples and dynamic layers. Some libraries show these dynamic layers more than others. For the best results with piano, I recommend CinePiano. The dynamic layers are audible in it as well, but they aren't nearly so pronounced. I sometimes work with two piano staves, doubling certain notes in the second piano to reduce the transition between layers. There is no perfect answer.


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## MadLad (Dec 24, 2020)

Thanks for the reply. I already considered getting one of the additional libraries. I'd prefer the Orchestra tools library since it's from the same people who made the berlin strings samples I already have. The description says it has 8 dynamic layers. Do you think that will do the trick?


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## dcoscina (Dec 24, 2020)

Jett Hitt said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of samples and dynamic layers. Some libraries show these dynamic layers more than others. For the best results with piano, I recommend CinePiano. The dynamic layers are audible in it as well, but they aren't nearly so pronounced. I sometimes work with two piano staves, doubling certain notes in the second piano to reduce the transition between layers. There is no perfect answer.


I think CinePianos are also the best for StaffPad as much as I love all OT stuff on it.


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## MadLad (Dec 24, 2020)

Do they work well with the orchestra tools libraries?


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 24, 2020)

MadLad said:


> Do they work well with the orchestra tools libraries?


Yes. Do NOT get the OT piano. It is the most disappointing StaffPad library I own. CinePiano will work just fine with the Berlin series. I use it every day with these libraries.


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## MadLad (Dec 24, 2020)

Thank you. I can see that cinepiano is also cheaper, so that's nice. I listened to some samples on youtube and cinepiano sounds really great. I'll get that one.


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## wcreed51 (Dec 24, 2020)

The Cinesamples website gives lots of detail about the stage and the mics used for recording the piano, but fails to mention what piano is used, just "stunningly beautiful 9'". I assume it's a Yamaha; does anyone know for sure?


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## MadLad (Dec 24, 2020)

After a bit of research I found out it's the updated version of an older library which used a Steinway D. And the newer CinePiano samples were recorded with a newer Steinway D model. Can't 100% confirm it, though.


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## wcreed51 (Dec 24, 2020)

Thanks


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## wcreed51 (Dec 26, 2020)

Wow, what a difference!


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## gussunkri (Jan 8, 2021)

Jett Hitt said:


> Yes. Do NOT get the OT piano. It is the most disappointing StaffPad library I own. CinePiano will work just fine with the Berlin series. I use it every day with these libraries.


I am curious about what is wrong with the OT piano. I do not own it, but I’ve found the demos to be really impressive.
I am silly but I find myself hesitating to buy Cinesamples full price simply because they were so recently on sale. Paying full price suddenly feels expensive.


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## Jett Hitt (Jan 8, 2021)

gussunkri said:


> I am curious about what is wrong with the OT piano. I do not own it, but I’ve found the demos to be really impressive.
> I am silly but I find myself hesitating to buy Cinesamples full price simply because they were so recently on sale. Paying full price suddenly feels expensive.


DWH has fixed a lot of the problems with the Berlin Piano in the past couple of months. I am able to use it in soft passages now, and so long as there aren't chords within the passage, it works pretty well, though it is quite wet even at the default 0% reverb. However, as soon as chords are present, they play back rolled. Even octaves do this. It is very annoying.


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## Zero Music Knowledge (Aug 24, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> DWH has fixed a lot of the problems with the Berlin Piano in the past couple of months. I am able to use it in soft passages now, and so long as there aren't chords within the passage, it works pretty well, though it is quite wet even at the default 0% reverb. However, as soon as chords are present, they play back rolled. Even octaves do this. It is very annoying.


Did this fix fix everything? Were there further more fixes for the Berlin Piano? I'm deciding whether to get the Berlin or the CinePiano.


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## brandowalk (Aug 24, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> DWH has fixed a lot of the problems with the Berlin Piano in the past couple of months. I am able to use it in soft passages now, and so long as there aren't chords within the passage, it works pretty well, though it is quite wet even at the default 0% reverb. However, as soon as chords are present, they play back rolled. Even octaves do this. It is very annoying.


Maybe the pianist has small hands 😯


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## Jett Hitt (Aug 24, 2022)

Zero Music Knowledge said:


> Did this fix fix everything? Were there further more fixes for the Berlin Piano? I'm deciding whether to get the Berlin or the CinePiano.


IMO the Berlin Piano is the worst library on StaffPad. CinePiano is a no brainer.


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## mopsiflopsi (Aug 24, 2022)

I have a similar dynamics issue with Berlin percussion. Mf is virtually inaudible in the mix, f blows the roof off. I use two staves, one for mf and below and one for the rest, to turn the volume up or down for balance.


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## rsg22 (Aug 24, 2022)

mopsiflopsi said:


> I have a similar dynamics issue with Berlin percussion. Mf is virtually inaudible in the mix, f blows the roof off. I use two staves, one for mf and below and one for the rest, to turn the volume up or down for balance.


I'm curious if you tried Staffpad's volume (not expression) automation to deal with this? I wasn't sure if that's what you meant by turning the volume up and down or if you were referring to the "master" volume for each staff.

I'm about to embark on a percussion-heavy chamber orchestra piece so I'll be running into this as well...


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## mopsiflopsi (Aug 24, 2022)

rsg22 said:


> I'm curious if you tried Staffpad's volume (not expression) automation to deal with this? I wasn't sure if that's what you meant by turning the volume up and down or if you were referring to the "master" volume for each staff.
> 
> I'm about to embark on a percussion-heavy chamber orchestra piece so I'll be running into this as well...


Wait, there is a separate automation lane for volume? I’ve been under the impression that automation is directly tied to expression. I’ve just been using the staff master volume…


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## gussunkri (Aug 24, 2022)

mopsiflopsi said:


> Wait, there is a separate automation lane for volume? I’ve been under the impression that automation is directly tied to expression. I’ve just been using the staff master volume…


Press and hold on the automation lane. You can toggle between expression, volume and pan.


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## rsg22 (Aug 24, 2022)

mopsiflopsi said:


> Wait, there is a separate automation lane for volume? I’ve been under the impression that automation is directly tied to expression. I’ve just been using the staff master volume…


Yep as @gussunkri said there are three automation lanes to toggle between. For a string quartet where I used Berlin first chairs I had to use volume automation extensively, with just a little expression automation


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## mopsiflopsi (Aug 24, 2022)

gussunkri said:


> Press and hold on the automation lane. You can toggle between expression, volume and pan.


One of these days I’ll get to learn Staffpad figured out how to do cold fusion but it was never documented.


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## Gil (Aug 25, 2022)

mopsiflopsi said:


> One of these days I’ll get to learn Staffpad figured out how to do cold fusion but it was never documented.


Hello,
This book helped me beginning with Staffpad:

Regards,
Gil.


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