# 8dio Agitato Arpeggio Legato... WOW



## jamwerks (Jun 29, 2015)

I just purchased these but not yet loaded into my template. I'm blown away by the Walk-through videos. Seems almost revolutionary as far as legato programing goes. Impossible to do any of that stuff before, stuff that real instruments can do so easily.

Seems we'll now be able to pull off figures that we never dared to try in the past. I'd love to see this technology make it into extentions for each of their Claire woodwinds.

Awesome job 8dio!


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## ryanstrong (Jun 29, 2015)

jamwerks said:


> I just purchased these but not yet loaded into my template. I'm blown away by the Walk-through videos. Seems almost revolutionary as far as legato programing goes. Impossible to do any of that stuff before, stuff that real instruments can do so easily.
> 
> Seems we'll now be able to pull off figures that we never dared to try in the past. I'd love to see this technology make it into extentions for each of their Claire woodwinds.
> 
> Awesome job 8dio!


I'd love to know how this compares with Spitfire's fast legato / runs.


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## procreative (Jun 29, 2015)

I watched both of their youtube videos, the triplets and slower runs sound good, but in my opinion the fast runs sound awful. No better than using a standard sustain patch, sounds very synth like.

In fact there were a few negative comments on the youtube page, so they have now disabled comments so they must have hit a nerve! In fact their absence here might be for similar reasons.

I am very on the fence with this one, sounds promising but I have been a little underwhelmed by some of their products as the demo videos sound so much better than the patches out of the box. They are also very tardy fixing bugs and inconsistencies so I am less keen to take a chance.


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## EvilDragon (Jun 29, 2015)

Sable's been doing that kind of stuff for the past year. With better sounding results, too.


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## Brendon Williams (Jun 29, 2015)

Hollywood Strings also does this quite well.


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## WhiteNoiz (Jun 29, 2015)

In the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu3hv7R0sHQ (demonstrational video) I can hear notes getting double-triggered [attacks - can't figure out if he's using some ostinato patch but I guess not since that's shown in another video; and why would you in such a line, anyway?], some legato transitions are more sluggish than others (e.g., 2:46), the violin sound fades out before the end of the MIDI data (2:07, barely making it at 2:12 & 2:13), the upward lines at 0:20-0:29 sound like an accordion (that's pretty common in lower-end stuff)...

- 1:37 - No...
- 2:00 - Nope, accordion
- 2:04 - First note... What?
- 2:15 - No...
- 2:17-2:18 - Meh
- 2:30-2:52 - No, just no...
- 4:48-4:58 - No... (Poof, Pew, Pow noise)
- 4:58-5:05 - Meh...
- 5:10-5:30 - Meh, not quite there
- A bit synthy overall and the room sounds meh
- Disabling even the likes is not a good sign

I kinda like the harsher tones. It's not TOO bad (1:00-2:00 and 3:00-4:20 are OK-ish for the most part), but it feels weird at [most] parts.


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## studioj (Jun 29, 2015)

The ostinato builder seems quite promising. That video definitely piqued my interest. I wish a dev would focus on slow and quiet ostinatos though... those are the meat of film music and I haven't come across a library that can do it convincingly yet. was hoping this would be the answer but I'm not getting that from the demonstrations so far.


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## Ian Dorsch (Jun 30, 2015)

Yeah, the ostinato builder is slick, very useful, and probably worth the intro price all by itself.

I haven't figured out how to get convincing results with the fast legato yet, but it took me a while to wrap my brain around the logic behind the legato in the other Adagio/Agitato products--which I love--so I am going to reserve judgment for now.


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## jamwerks (Jun 30, 2015)

Really surprised with some of the responses here. I'll have another listen to the videos and post again. I'll also try to post some comparison examples (next week) with this Agitato arpeggio Legato vs Sable vs HS.


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## Matt Riley (Jun 30, 2015)

I really think this should have been a free update for the other Agitato product, Grandiose Legato. I purchased Agitato Grandiose after being impressed by the youtube product demos which boasted extremely fast legatos for ensemble and divisi patches. One of the main reasons I purchased it was that I needed small legato string ensembles so I thought the divisi patches would be great for that. I already had HS, so small is what I was after.

After purchasing the bundle, I was very disappointed to find that the divisi patches (especially the violas) could not play fast convincingly. Or at least they couldn't play the lines I needed them to play. HS could do it but not the divisi patches from Agitato Grandiose.

I emailed Colin about it and he was super nice but unable to help me get the patch to play the line convincingly. I adjusted everything from velocities, note overlaps, CC envelopes... nothing worked. The line wasn't even that fast. Here's a link to audio file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8xbJaZ1nMjyZC15Y0poNE5WbVE/view?usp=sharing

I was told my line was more of a run and the instrument wasn't designed for that. Also the divisi patches were programed with less emphasis on the legato transitions than the ensemble patches. This was a bummer because I wouldn't have purchased it if I had known that. It can play really nice slower legato lines though.

I recently purchased the Spitfire Sable complete bundle and it can do pretty anything including very fast melodic lines and runs. I'm very happy with it.


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## WhiteNoiz (Jul 1, 2015)

Matt Riley said:


> Here's a link to audio file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8xbJaZ1nMjyZC15Y0poNE5WbVE/view?usp=sharing



Wow, that sounds really bad.

Then again, the intervals are pretty short and moderately fast changing. I don't know. (Isn't there a transition speed control?)


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## michaelv (Jul 1, 2015)

It's not revolutionary. In fact, it's pants. Impossible to do any of that stuff before? You are joking, Sir, aren't you? I've been pulling off this technique for years with other libraries. Yet again, 8Dio pull off hyperbole, but but fail to deliver.To compare it to real instruments is, frankly, ridiculous.

I would honestly urge anyone considering purchasing this to at least read my other post here: http://vi-control.net/community/index.php?threads/big-regret-buying-8dio-adagio-strings.46351/page-5

The ostinato builder builds…. nothing! It's a set of standard intervals, with no user control over the outcome. But there's worse to come, if you read my other post. Briefly, the figures are only one bar in length and do not even loop!

This product has a lot less shaping of the sound than Action Strings. That's a fact, and I would apply that to all of 8Dio's products. Action Strings has so much more, in terms of options and depth. I know it's cranky, but it's beyond this 8Dio with regard to practical application.

8Dio make pretty-looking libraries, but most of the time they do not stand up to competing alternatives, despite making an awful lot of big claims . Mr. Evil Dragon makes a very good point, but I would have to add Orchestral String Runs to this, whose playable legato technology is considerably beyond that of 8Dio's. The Spitfire libraries are outstanding, no question. I couldn't function, professionally, without them.

If there was a way to get a refund I would do it, without hesitation. Unfortunately there is not. I will never buy another 8Dio product after purchasing this misleading, poorly implemented library.


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## woodsdenis (Jul 2, 2015)

Tx for info Michaelv, the library certainly piqued my interest, mainly as an addition to Action Strings. What I find disappointing is that in the video Troels made a point of how the ostinatos were edited to have perfect timing. Looks like that isn't the case unfortunately.


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## Matt Riley (Jul 2, 2015)

WhiteNoiz said:


> Wow, that sounds really bad.
> 
> Then again, the intervals are pretty short and moderately fast changing. I don't know. (Isn't there a transition speed control?)


Yes there's a speed control which I experimented with thoroughly.


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## vicontrolu (Jul 3, 2015)

Hey Matt..can you post the midi? i am just curious to check whats happening there. Thanks


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## Ed (Jul 3, 2015)

At least with the demos and the walkthroughs it sounds great to me in terms of samples, I just think the arpeggio product sounds too small and scratchy for my tastes even in the demos. For big "epic" music it doesn't sound right to me. I'm sure I'd find it useful but I don't have the money to throw at every product anymore.


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## Matt Riley (Jul 3, 2015)

vicontrolu said:


> Hey Matt..can you post the midi? i am just curious to check whats happening there. Thanks


Sure! They don't do refunds so I'd be grateful if you could figure it out. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8xbJaZ1nMjyRGtpU0pqNGJCd2M/view?usp=sharing


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## Matt Riley (Jul 3, 2015)

Here's the Spitfire "Sable Va - Legato Performance Palette (vol2+3+4)" playing the same file.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8xbJaZ1nMjyanpWN2NSV1p5LXc/view?usp=sharing


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## zacnelson (Jul 3, 2015)

Whitenoiz, thanks for all that detail on the walkthrough video, I found it very helpful, and I watched the video whilst studying your post. I thought some of the stuff on the video sounded good, in particular the pointed legato, that was impressive. A quick question; is the video using a divisi or a full ensemble? It sounded very `small'.


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## WhiteNoiz (Jul 4, 2015)

Matt Riley said:


> Here's the Spitfire "Sable Va - Legato Performance Palette (vol2+3+4)" playing the same file.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8xbJaZ1nMjyanpWN2NSV1p5LXc/view?usp=sharing



Way better.


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## benmrx (Jul 4, 2015)

WhiteNoiz said:


> Way better.


and way more expensive.

I would be curious to see/hear a comparison between the full BML string package and the full Adagio/Agitato package on TWO different types of scenarios by someone that REALLY knows the ins and outs of each respective library. Scenario one being a traditional string arrangement, and scenario two being a more modern hybrid arrangement. I know which package I would go to for each.

For what it's worth, I see the full Adagio, Agitato, and new Arpeggio bundles add up to roughly $1580, where as the full BML string bundle (Sable 1,2,3,4 + ensembles and Mural 1,2 + ensembles) is roughly $2,090 at the current exchange rate.


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## WhiteNoiz (Jul 4, 2015)

benmrx said:


> and way more expensive.



So? Anyway, the point is that one works [for that line] and the other doesn't (although it's supposed to be suitable for very fast lines). How could one know beforehand?

Maybe Sable wouldn't work for hybrid stuff but how does that mean that Arpeggio would? And if it did maybe it wouldn't be up everyone's alley (the way it did). [It will play the line, but will it be the result you're after?]

The same could go for Sable, of course. How does one go about avoiding buying it for hybrid stuff (as implied)? You can only guess it.

I didn't generally comment on what one should buy (or not). I pointed what sounds better/more proper to me.


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## benmrx (Jul 4, 2015)

I'm


WhiteNoiz said:


> So? Anyway, the point is that one works [for that line] and the other doesn't (although it's supposed to be suitable for very fast lines). How could one know beforehand?
> 
> Maybe Sable wouldn't work for hybrid stuff but how does that mean that Arpeggio would? And if it did maybe it wouldn't be up everyone's alley (the way it did). [It will play the line, but will it be the result you're after?]
> 
> ...



Maybe I'm alone on this, but cost a pretty big factor when making a purchase and/or comparing libraries or tools. 

I'm going by tone, walk thru's and my personal experience with products from both developers on my stance regarding style/genre.


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## vicontrolu (Jul 4, 2015)

I ll give the midi a try when i have a bit of time, thanks

_I would be curious to see/hear a comparison between the full BML string package and the full Adagio/Agitato package on TWO different types of scenarios by someone that REALLY knows the ins and outs of each respective library. Scenario one being a traditional string arrangement, and scenario two being a more modern hybrid arrangement. I know which package I would go to for each.
_
There was a thread not so long ago in which a fragment of JW string writing was made with basically all the string libs. Check it out. I did the 8Dio attempt. They are my main string lib and i did have to adapt my workflow to work with them but overall, i,am pretty happy with them. I have done a lot of epic/hybrid things with them but also more delicate stuff from time to time.


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## ModalRealist (Jul 4, 2015)

vicontrolu said:


> There was a thread not so long ago in which a fragment of JW string writing was made with basically all the string libs.



Probably this one you're thinking of: http://vi-control.net/community/index.php?threads/harry-potter-strings-expo-2015.44802/


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## tmm (Jul 4, 2015)

Personal taste, but I didn't really think either sounded good. They both sounded pretty lifeless to me, and the second one in particular seemed drenched in reverb, which (natural or otherwise) made it more difficult to assess. I've heard (and made) 8Dio strings sound much better (subjective again) than this for fast passages. I'm traveling Thu, but if I have time before then, I'll download the MIDI and see what I can do with it using 8Dio.


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## michaelv (Jul 4, 2015)

woodsdenis said:


> Tx for info Michaelv, the library certainly piqued my interest, mainly as an addition to Action Strings. What I find disappointing is that in the video Troels made a point of how the ostinatos were edited to have perfect timing. Looks like that isn't the case unfortunately.




A pleasure. Personally, I feel that people should know a thing or two about flawed products ( which this clearly is ) prior to committing their hard-earned money. There are many rhythmic figures in this library which are not accurate. I posted the following example to demonstrate how I massaged the patch and improved its perceived smoothness. Now, why on earth should a customer be wasting time doing this ?!



I'll pulling this down after the weekend, but thought you might be interested to see what is possible. The original figure has a rhythmic bump near the end of the phrase. Imagine this playing over and over , bearing in mind there is only one bar and no round robin. There are other sloppy phrases like this: it's not isolated. 

I do not buy into 8Dio's misleading hyperbole. Yes, it will work well with Action Strings, etc, but don't be under any illusion that this a revolutionary technology. That's just laughable nonsense.


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## soundshigh (Jul 4, 2015)

Matt Riley said:


> Sure! They don't do refunds so I'd be grateful if you could figure it out.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8xbJaZ1nMjyRGtpU0pqNGJCd2M/view?usp=sharing




Hi everyone,

Can't say I am very experienced with orchestral mockups , just trying to use samples in a way I like hearing them.....Here is my version of the above midi file with 8dio Agitato Grandiose Violas Divisi section - used the strong detache articulation, and also adjusted the velocity, CC1 modulation, and the speed of the legato (also automated)....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1QqdVJrDnrnZ19icWI2T3Z2YjQ/view?usp=sharing

Overall the violins divisi seem to deal a lot better with this line. But the violas could probably do it even a bit better if you tweak the automation of the legato speed.

Cheers, K.

Edit: also, I changed the length of the notes from the original midi file and added a little bit of reverb.


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## Matt Riley (Jul 4, 2015)

Are you sure you loaded the correct file?


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## soundshigh (Jul 4, 2015)

Matt Riley said:


> Are you should you loaded the correct file?



Sorry, but I am not sure what you mean - are you asking if I used the correct midi file, or if I uploaded the file I intended?


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## Mike Marino (Jul 4, 2015)

michaelv said:


> A pleasure. Personally, I feel that people should know a thing or two about flawed products ( which this clearly is ) prior to committing their hard-earned money. There are many rhythmic figures in this library which are not accurate. I posted the following example to demonstrate how I massaged the patch and improved its perceived smoothness. Now, why on earth should a customer be wasting time doing this ?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you contacted 8dio regarding these issues you've come across?


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## Matt Riley (Jul 4, 2015)

tmm said:


> Personal taste, but I didn't really think either sounded good. They both sounded pretty lifeless to me, and the second one in particular seemed drenched in reverb, which (natural or otherwise) made it more difficult to assess. I've heard (and made) 8Dio strings sound much better (subjective again) than this for fast passages. I'm traveling Thu, but if I have time before then, I'll download the MIDI and see what I can do with it using 8Dio.


Please do. The Sable version doesn't have any verb added so it's the mics.


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## synthetic (Jul 4, 2015)

They are working on a library update. I have a beta version that performs much better than the posted example. (I don't want to post a MIDI example with my beta version because I don't have permission for that, and anyway it's unfinished.) 

I'd also encourage you to try the marcato keyswitch, I'm finding that sounds much better than sus-xfade.


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## michaelv (Jul 4, 2015)

Mike Marino said:


> Have you contacted 8dio regarding these issues you've come across?




No, Sir. Do you think I should ? I've already improved on their version. Maybe they're listening, anyway. What do you think would be gained by this?


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## Mike Marino (Jul 4, 2015)

michaelv said:


> No, Sir. Do you think I should ? I've already improved on their version. Maybe they're listening, anyway. What do you think would be gained by this?


Now that Jeff has mentioned that he's working with a beta version of an update being released I'd probably wait to see if this fixes these problems. But perhaps contacting them upon discovering your dissatisfaction for the quality of the library they might have been able to tell you about the up-coming update to fix these issues...and you might have gained just a touch more "piece of mind" that they're working on these problems.

Lets wait and see what happens. It would be great for you guys to report back once this update is released. Hopefully for the sake of your money spent and 8dio's brand you'll find yourself in a much happier position.


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## vicontrolu (Jul 5, 2015)

To me its clear that they are already aware of the degree of Dissatisfactoon amongst their customers. I'd dare to say the Adagio series has done more harm than good for their brand. Adagietto is a good product and Agitato tried to, but looks like they have ruined it again with this new library.

I think a major update with unified keyswitch/articulations in all legato/shorts patches would tame down the spirit and make the library way more useful but looks like this wasnt even considered from the very beginning, while recording thse samples.


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## MichalCielecki (Jul 5, 2015)

Matt Riley said:


> I adjusted everything from velocities, note overlaps, CC envelopes... nothing worked. The line wasn't even that fast. Here's a link to audio file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8xbJaZ1nMjyZC15Y0poNE5WbVE/view?usp=sharing



https://soundcloud.com/michal-cielecki/agitato-vlas-div/s-ZKx0x


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## Matt Riley (Jul 5, 2015)

MichalCielecki said:


> https://soundcloud.com/michal-cielecki/agitato-vlas-div/s-ZKx0x


Better! Could you link the midi file? What patch did you use?


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## WhiteNoiz (Jul 5, 2015)

soundshigh said:


> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1QqdVJrDnrnZ19icWI2T3Z2YjQ/view?usp=sharing



Somewhat better. But I still hear some weird bowing noises (a kind of snap on the first note) and the transitions feel tardy.



MichalCielecki said:


> https://soundcloud.com/michal-cielecki/agitato-vlas-div/s-ZKx0x



I find this worse than the original (in a way).


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## Matt Riley (Jul 5, 2015)

WhiteNoiz said:


> I find this worse than the original (in a way).


It's a start! I actually hear some decent transitions. The expression and timing is weird for sure but I'd say it's definitely better than my 8dio attempt. I just want to know how he did it. I think the Sable version is still the winner though.


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## soundshigh (Jul 5, 2015)

WhiteNoiz said:


> Somewhat better. But I still hear some weird bowing noises (a kind of snap on the first note) and the transitions feel tardy.
> 
> 
> 
> I find this worse than the original (in a way).




As I said earlier, the violins divisi fair quite better with this midi file. The violas were apparently not the focus of the developer....But I totally love how they sound with slower passages. 

It is very interesting how forum discussions can easily influence one's (mine, apparently) feelings about a product. Reading through this thread, and the other two that currently discuss the different 8dio strings libraries, made me feel I could have made the wrong choice with them....Which is weird, since I've always loved their sound and have been happy with buying them. Yeah, they are not ideal - still some volume unevenness here and there, some rhythmical quirkiness - but also, to me they sound the most....beautiful and realistic and great fun to play, especially the Agitato Grandiose series....

So after reading negative comments here for the last several days, I finally opened up Cubase and started just loading different Adagio and Agitato patches and played with them for several hours just to see if they are really that bad.....you know, that is despite that those are my main strings for the last 2 years....And I feel good again )


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2015)

NEVER, NEVER, let a bunch of guys on a forum talk you out of liking the libraries you like. You don't want to sound like everybody else and one way to avoid that is to mix and match to create your own special sauce.


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## Mike Marino (Jul 5, 2015)

soundshigh said:


> As I said earlier, the violins divisi fair quite better with this midi file. The violas were apparently not the focus of the developer....But I totally love how they sound with slower passages.
> 
> It is very interesting how forum discussions can easily influence one's (mine, apparently) feelings about a product. Reading through this thread, and the other two that currently discuss the different 8dio strings libraries, made me feel I could have made the wrong choice with them....Which is weird, since I've always loved their sound and have been happy with buying them. Yeah, they are not ideal - still some volume unevenness here and there, some rhythmical quirkiness - but also, to me they sound the most....beautiful and realistic and great fun to play, especially the Agitato Grandiose series....
> 
> So after reading negative comments here for the last several days, I finally opened up Cubase and started just loading different Adagio and Agitato patches and played with them for several hours just to see if they are really that bad.....you know, that is despite that those are my main strings for the last 2 years....And I feel good again )


+1


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## WhiteNoiz (Jul 5, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> NEVER, NEVER, let a bunch of guys on a forum talk you out of liking the libraries you like. You don't want to sound like everybody else and one way to avoid that is to mix and match to create your own special sauce.



Really? That sounds like he was put in a corner and bullied into not liking it. The same way you talk about mushing libraries, the same I feel about merging different opinions. Of course, you're free to like it and if it works for you (your taste, work...), that's totally fine. And, mixing and matching, means less if you don't like the quality of one of the ingredients. Could the other ingredients cover and mediate or hide the one you aren't particularly fond of? Sure. And maybe it's better to put in something not "as good" but maybe in the blend it will be ok or offer something. (I won't get into whether something is actually broken/misadvertised or if it's simply a matter of taste... Mush the different opinions and work something out of them or ignore them. That's up to you.)


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2015)

Not saying he was bullied, but apparently he did allow himself to become intimidated into doubting his taste which is unfortunate. And no mixing and matching for me is not about being dissatisfied with one or the other. It is about creating a _personal_ sound, which I care about. If you do not, that is fine.


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## WhiteNoiz (Jul 5, 2015)

Matt Riley said:


> I actually hear some decent transitions



Yeah, that's why I added the _(in a way)_.



EastWest Lurker said:


> It is about creating a _personal_ sound, which I care about. If you do not, that is fine.



Actually, I do. My point is mainly about usability, not taste or originality.


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## MichalCielecki (Jul 5, 2015)

WhiteNoiz said:


> I find this worse than the original (in a way).



And I find the Sable example worse than anything else. Let's just keep going that way for a couple of pages.


Matt, better you say?

"I adjusted everything from velocities, *note overlaps*, CC envelopes... nothing worked." Interesting. This is how your midi file looks like when loaded.







What I did was overlapping the notes, seting the speed knob to almost the highest value and set the velocity about 50. Agitato's philosophy is the same as Adagietto's - you get three different tone/legato with different velocities - lowest velocities gives you slur/glissando type legato, mid velo = "middle power" leg and highest gives you the most emotional one. I used the middle one here, because I liked the transitions and tone better. I didn't touch the modwheel.

I admit the phrase does not sound perfect, but as you mentioned Colin's response - the library is not designed for this kind of melodies, so you don't even have the proper accented tails for such passage.

When I loaded your file it sounded as bad as in your audio example. So I'd like to suggest one thing (to you and other users in this and the other 8Dio thread) - instead of taking time to try to convince people how shitty Adagio/Agitato is and how fucked up 8Dio is as a company, maybe it will be wiser and more productive to sit and learn to use the library.

Cheers,
Michal


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2015)

WhiteNoiz said:


> Yeah, that's why I added the _(in a way)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I do. My point is mainly about usability, not taste or originality.




But "usability" is also in the eyes and ears of the user. One thing is for sure: if you try to use a library in a different way than the developer clearly intended, if the results are not good at that point it is on the user, not the developer.

Once again, I don't own any 8dio libraries so I have no opinion on their usability.


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## WhiteNoiz (Jul 5, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> But "usability" is also in the eyes and ears of the user. One thing is for sure: if you try to use a library in a different way than the developer clearly intended, if the results are not good at that point it is on the user, not the developer.
> 
> Once again, I don't own any 8dio libraries so I have no opinion on their usability.



Fair enough. But that means the intentions of the developer are communicated thouroughly (in a tangible way). Sadly, there's no concrete answer to that.

I like EW's approach in the way that it now makes it possible to at least "demo" the libraries (although I don't particularly like the idea of a paid demo).



MichalCielecki said:


> When I loaded your file it sounded as bad as in your audio example. So I'd like to suggest one thing (to you and other users in this and the other 8Dio thread) - instead of taking time to try to convince people how shitty Adagio/Agitato is and how fucked up 8Dio is as a company, maybe it will be wiser and more productive to sit and learn to use the library.



I don't have the library. I merely judge by what I'm given and what I expect/like. Why can't you accept that's my opinion (like I do) and make it like the point of all the discussion is to attack 8Dio? Ι begin to understand the gripe of some people here with similar past discussions. (Although I could accept it, if it was directed to the OP - *Edit*: I meant this OP; I got confused with these threads)

Then again, I guess it has to do with the "you insult me personally if you critisise a product/brand I like" thing.



benmrx said:


> Maybe I'm alone on this, but cost a pretty big factor when making a purchase and/or comparing libraries or tools.



I mean that it wouldn't really matter if it cost 500 or 800 if I couldn't use it for the things I intended to use it for.


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## procreative (Jul 5, 2015)

If so-called flawed libraries are truly down to user error, maybe developers should include some demo phrases as midi files. Nothing too long, maybe the file used in the demo video.

That way users can see how to get the most out of that library.

Truble with most developer videos is that they sound great but do not really tell you what was involved. Worse still are the audio demos that have loads of other instrumentation masking the sound.

In 8Dios case Troels is a very skilled programmer and prone to a lot of hyperbole. Thus buyers end up feeling underwhelmed when the patches don't give instant satisfaction or quite live up to the "game-changer" tag.

My feeling is the same on this library, the fast runs sound terrible and seeing as that is part of the title… seems a bit pointless using it?


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## MichalCielecki (Jul 5, 2015)

WhiteNoiz said:


> (Although I could accept it, if it was directed to the OP - *Edit*: I meant this OP; I got confused with these threads)



Indeed it was (mostly) and I'm sorry if I seemed to jump on you, my apologies. I just sometimes am foaming at the mouth when I see the *_watched_walkthroughs->listened_to_demos->bought_the_library->can't_make_it_work->hating_the_dev_* pattern. I could probably start a topic when I write about how bad CG Infinity is, because the demos and vids were fantastic and I could not make anything decent with it. But to me it would be pointless and a waste of time - it's just more productive to get to know the tool and learn it's strenghts.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2015)

Well, if _someone_ can make a library work for specific things that it was designed to work for, theoretically _everyone_ can make it work in that same methodology if they are skilled. Whether they _choose_ to work that way and become skilled with it is another matter but if the user does not, no matter which libraries, they are likely to end up disappointed.


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## Matt Riley (Jul 5, 2015)

MichalCielecki said:


> I admit the phrase does not sound perfect, but as you mentioned Colin's response - the library is not designed for this kind of melodies, so you don't even have the proper accented tails for such passage.



Yes he did say that AFTER I purchased it and it was in contradiction to this video and the video description which states: "designed as fast melodic leads for any string library of your choice.": 



MichalCielecki said:


> I'd like to suggest one thing (to you and other users in this and the other 8Dio thread) - instead of taking time to try to convince people how shitty Adagio/Agitato is and how fucked up 8Dio is as a company, maybe it will be wiser and more productive to sit and learn to use the library.



That's a pretty rude and unwarranted response. I really wasn't condemning anyone or any company. Do you treat people like this in real life? Thanks for the advice on the midi file though. You're totally right about the velocities.


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## vicontrolu (Jul 5, 2015)

_Thanks for the advice on the midi file though. You're totally right about the velocities._

Uh..that sounds as if you didnt know about the velocity implementation..did you bother to read the manual?

I am very curious how come Colin couldnt at least send you a version with proper velocities before saying their product wasnt able to do this stuff, cause honestly this is more of a fast legato (which Agitato should be able to handle correctly imo) than a run.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 5, 2015)

There seem to be a few threads at the moment all talking about similar things. Perhaps I'm guilty of confirmation bias, but it's making me more certain that my pet theory is right - we all a) work differently and b) have different musical tics. I know a) is kind of obvious - and the endless debate about how much we modify how we like to work to better suit a given library vs seeking out the tools that already work in the way we like. But b) is consistently underestimated IMO. My big tic is legato transitions, compounded by my working methods leaning on legato patches so much. Others are far more concerned about spacial characteristics or precise tuning, or seek a very particular sound, and they don't use legato much at all. It's no great surprise that people prefer different libraries and we argue about it all the time.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 5, 2015)

Guy Rowland said:


> There seem to be a few threads at the moment all talking about similar things. Perhaps I'm guilty of confirmation bias, but it's making me more certain that my pet theory is right - we all a) work differently and b) have different musical tics. I know a) is kind of obvious - and the endless debate about how much we modify how we like to work to better suit a given library vs seeking out the tools that already work in the way we like. But b) is consistently underestimated IMO. My big tic is legato transitions, compounded by my working methods leaning on legato patches so much. Others are far more concerned about spacial characteristics or precise tuning, or seek a very particular sound, and they don't use legato much at all. It's no great surprise that people prefer different libraries and we argue about it all the time.



And if you notice, the thing that gets argued about the most is strings.

Let's face it- strings are HARD.


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## Matt Riley (Jul 5, 2015)

vicontrolu said:


> _Thanks for the advice on the midi file though. You're totally right about the velocities._
> 
> Uh..that sounds as if you didnt know about the velocity implementation..did you bother to read the manual?
> 
> I am very curious how come Colin couldnt at least send you a version with proper velocities before saying their product wasnt able to do this stuff, cause honestly this is more of a fast legato (which Agitato should be able to handle correctly imo) than a run.



Yes I didn't RTFM cover to cover but you are right that I should have. What do you mean "proper velocities?" MichalCielecki's version is better but still not acceptable. It's a start though. I'm not sure why Colin didn't send me a revised file but he did give some pointers and said:

"Grandiose legato instruments are designed for passionate lines, medium to fast tempos. Runs and arpeggio type are not necessarily the intent of this instrument. I consider those more "bouncing" and less "expressive" if that makes any sense. We have another Agitato product focused on this area, which has not yet been released. It's also worth noting that a live viola section always plays a bit slower on transitions when compared to violins, particularly in higher?"

I just had thought that the library was intended for fast lines based on the advertising. We discussed it further in our email thread and he's a super nice guy. He sent me some other files demonstrating the capabilities of the library. I just haven't used it since then (7 months) because I have other string libraries that do well for slower lines. I just needed one for fast divisi. I do NOT have anything against 8dio and actually own another library by them.


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## givemenoughrope (Jul 5, 2015)

For runs and ostinatos and things this specific I would have figured that bouncing to audio and a bit of crossfading and time-stretching would be in order. It's difficult to get everything just out of midi I think.


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## MichalCielecki (Jul 5, 2015)

Matt Riley said:


> That's a pretty rude and unwarranted response. I really wasn't condemning anyone or any company. Do you treat people like this in real life?



Only the people who unleash my inner beast, like those who post an audio example rendered from improperly programmed midi file and claim it's the library's fault.


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## Matt Riley (Jul 5, 2015)

touché.


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## Brendon Williams (Jul 5, 2015)

If anyone's interested in comparing, here's that line played by Hollywood Strings Viola:

With a bit of reverb:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1SvQVpChBPWZUNmbzU1NGZ0MjQ/view?usp=sharing

Dry:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1SvQVpChBPWdEllY0l0WHNPVmc/view?usp=sharing


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## jononotbono (Jul 5, 2015)

I've just literally ordered Agitato Legato Arpeggio (currently downloading) as it's affordable at the intro price and I love the other 2 8Dio Libraries I own (Adagio Violins and Cellos). Although, to me, the super fast examples don't sound completely convincing and the Spitfire Sable example (in the above Example) is much better, I reckon using this is going to be great practise for when I can afford my next libraries which are going to be Spitfire Albion Bundle followed by Sable. Don't think you can go wrong by just owning Spitfire stuff to be honest.

The Ostinato Builder in Agitato Legato Arpeggio also looks very fun and think it will give much better results than me trying to build Ostinatos by using just the Shorts of Adagio.


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## jononotbono (Jul 6, 2015)

So, first impressions...

The Legato patches at moderately fast speed sound very good! At Hyper fast speed I'm not too sure. Someone above said synthetic sounding. I could agree with that but until I have learnt the library and what it's limitations are I am just going to reserve judgement especially as I've only been playing around with it and having some fun for a couple of hrs.

I would like to know how the Ostinato Builder fares to Spitfire's Albion Ostinatum because when watching the Albion walkthroughs, it seems much more intuitive to use. Still, using 8Dio Products are different to others that I own and the learning curve, for a beginner such as myself, is quite steep. I am wondering why the Arp samples aren't looped but I found using the sustain pedal sort of helped with writing patterns. Looped samples (like NI Action Strings) would be welcome though!

The Agitato Legato Arp v1 is only £85 right now and for the price, I really can't complain. It is cheap (compared to many other libraries) and certainly now gives me the option of faster String runs than I could have achieved with just the Adagio series. Now I just need to win the Lottery or slave away working to save up for the next libraries I require.

Jono


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## hirnkatheter (Jul 6, 2015)

jononotbono said:


> I am wondering why the Arp samples aren't looped but I found using the sustain pedal sort of helped with writing patterns. Looped samples (like NI Action Strings) would be welcome though!
> 
> Jono



That is bothering me too. I doesn't make any sense. I assume programming this loop wouldn't have been such a great effort for the 8dio guys.


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## Ian Dorsch (Jul 6, 2015)

synthetic said:


> They are working on a library update. I have a beta version that performs much better than the posted example. (I don't want to post a MIDI example with my beta version because I don't have permission for that, and anyway it's unfinished.)



This is very good news.


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## synthetic (Jul 6, 2015)

Isn't the sust-xfade keyswitch looped?


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## jamwerks (Jul 7, 2015)

I've listened to Colin's video again. Seems to me everything in that video is going much faster than the HS & Sable samples posted here. I have and HS, Sable & most of Adagio-Agitato, and like them all.

To me everything in this new Agitato Arpeggio works and sound very well, with the exception of the 3 note figures that are showcased in each of the instruments. The final (3rd) note of each figure would benefit by sounding staccato. And the quick back and forth movement seems to work less well than lines that continue on to new notes imo.

The figures that Colin saying resembling Capriccio Espanol figures go very fast, and sound amazingly good for samples imo.

As for the ostinato builder, 1 measure phrases allow us to be composers and build our own. Action Strings is a different animal.


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## tmm (Jul 10, 2015)

Will do - I'm away from my workstation for the next week, but I will get it done when I'm back.



Matt Riley said:


> Please do. The Sable version doesn't have any verb added so it's the mics.


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## StatKsn (Jul 20, 2015)

I recently got Agitato Arpeggio. I thought the Ostinato Builder is useful but it is tricky to use. Limitations include: no RR, only 1 bar, not recorded in one semitone interval and sound character often changes wildly between sampled intervals - so it is somewhat difficult to do fake RR. I found release time a little unoptimized from time to time, but I can't change ADSR, etc.

I like its simplicity and diverse selection of phrases, though, it works nicely when the context is right. I like imperfection and sloppiness - I just wish there is a RR, or at least 2 bars!

As far as the playable legato goes, I like the sound and its playability. I agree that it gets "synthy" above a certain speed, but it plays moderately fast lines pretty well.

Overall, the library is fine, but the OB is very context sensitive (like many other 8Dio libraries). I would wait to see if how the update goes.


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## kfirpr (Aug 2, 2015)

StatKsn said:


> I recently got Agitato Arpeggio. I thought the Ostinato Builder is useful but it is tricky to use. Limitations include: no RR, only 1 bar, not recorded in one semitone interval and sound character often changes wildly between sampled intervals - so it is somewhat difficult to do fake RR. I found release time a little unoptimized from time to time, but I can't change ADSR, etc.
> 
> I like its simplicity and diverse selection of phrases, though, it works nicely when the context is right. I like imperfection and sloppiness - I just wish there is a RR, or at least 2 bars!
> 
> ...


Interested in this library, any news on the update?


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## kfirpr (Nov 20, 2015)

Want to purchase this, is it decently playable?


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## Mofi (Dec 6, 2015)

Can someone using a PC and Win7 64 with Cubase 8.030 or Cubase 8.5 please confirm a huge bug/crash I can reproduce on my system to 100%:

When loaded the Playable Fast Legato, I.e. Cello hyper feather atk, right click on the Dynamics wheel to learn midi CC automation and move your modwheel. When doing so my Cubase crashes bad, sometimes even the whole PC. This happens only with this library. Everything else from 8dio or Spitfire or LAScorings works fine.


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## SeattleComposer (Dec 6, 2015)

I like the ostinatos in this library for writing. With one bar and no RR, they tend to sound a little fakey standing naked if you use the same line for more than a couple of bars. I would layer them probably. But I really enjoy the ease of being able to load a couple of different ostinatos and hear how one perfectly synced figure plays against another. Like, in my head, I probably would not always imagine playing some of these against each other, but fiddling around with the library, I think "ah-ha!" It's a faster process than using the Spitfire osti-maker, but more limited. But for brainstorming and getting inspiration? Pretty useful. And it does sound good and fits well with the rest of the 8Dio strings.

I am looking forward to the update.


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## vicontrolu (Dec 7, 2015)

I ve read different opinions here about this library. Could anybody post a tune using all 8dio strings + these runs? Would be great to have a listen in context, in a real life scenario so to speak.

Mostly interested on the playable runs here.


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## Ian Dorsch (Dec 8, 2015)

Sure am curious about that update.


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## StatKsn (Dec 27, 2015)

No, still not hearing about the update. Based on the recent series of (a bit questionable) repackaging coming from 8Dio, I am getting a bit skeptical to be honest.


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