# Proper movie credits for VST library



## eliogabaluss (Sep 5, 2021)

Good morning,
I'm new here and I stumbled upon the forum searching for information I did not found answers for!
I'd like to know if there's a proper way to credit a sound library in a movie credits roll.
I mean, should I go for

*Music composed by
NAME

Sound libraries
THIS ONE
THIS OTHER ONE
ANOTHER ONE*

or maybe

*VST sound library courtesy of
BIG NAME*

or maybe just

*Music composed by
NAME*

and nothing else?


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## FireGS (Sep 5, 2021)

Don't credit the libraries. You've already paid for the license to use the libraries without needing to credit them. Credit yourself.


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## JohnG (Sep 5, 2021)

I agree. A hundred thousand people may have the same samples you do, but you are the one, unique person who went through all the steps to educate yourself and put yourself into position to get the gig, execute the gig, and stay on top of everything needed to end the gig with your music still in the movie and your name still there.


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## Mike Greene (Sep 5, 2021)

I wouldn't credit sound libraries, if for no other reason than some people may interpret tech credits to mean you're using shortcuts. For instance, lots of people are familiar with using Garage Band to drag and drop loops onto the interface and calling that "an original song." They may think that Berlin Strings is a bunch of orchestral loops and you're just doing the same thing.


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## RogiervG (Sep 5, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Don't credit the libraries. You've already paid for the license to use the libraries without needing to credit them. Credit yourself.


That is not always the case though, read the EULA's closely. Sometimes for certain usage((for some this is for use in movies, tv-shows or games)) you need to ask permission or you need to credit the developer in some fashion.


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## FireGS (Sep 5, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> That is not always the case though, read the EULA's closely. Sometimes for certain usage (in a commercial context) you need to ask permission, or you need to credit the developer in some fashion.


Got an example of that being the case? I've never heard or seen that for movie credits.


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## eliogabaluss (Sep 5, 2021)

Thank you all for your replies!
You're right and I perfectly get your point now.
Of course I have to be more precise in my question:
Let's say I'm not a professional but an amateur working on a indie animated short I wrote, directed, animated, colored, postproducted and composed. I didn't buy the library because I'm using the Spitfire BBC Orchestra Discover free edition. I mean, I was thinking that adding some more name in the credits would help breaking the monotony of my name in every part of the credit roll. 
Does it make sense?


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## RogiervG (Sep 5, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Got an example of that being the case? I've never heard or seen that for movie credits.


"As soon as the License Agreement has come into force the Licensee is obliged to include the reference "Orchestral Samples included in this recording from the Vienna Symphonic Library" (or a similar reference) in all Credits, Liner Notes, Booklets and/or similar Content Tables or Track Data of the produced and/or licensed audio recordings (regardless if captured on a sound storage medium and/or otherwise published and distributed and/or transferred digitally as a sound file). A similar reference in theatrical movies and/or TV movies is to be included according to producer’s possibilities and/or according to national law requirements wherever possible."

--- VSL's EULA


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## FireGS (Sep 5, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> "As soon as the License Agreement has come into force the Licensee is obliged to include the reference "Orchestral Samples included in this recording from the Vienna Symphonic Library" (or a similar reference) in all Credits, Liner Notes, Booklets and/or similar Content Tables or Track Data of the produced and/or licensed audio recordings (regardless if captured on a sound storage medium and/or otherwise published and distributed and/or transferred digitally as a sound file). A similar reference in theatrical movies and/or TV movies is to be included according to producer’s possibilities and/or according to national law requirements wherever possible."
> 
> --- VSL's EULA


@Ben ???


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## RogiervG (Sep 5, 2021)

Hmm i did a search deeper in the website of vsl.. and i also found this:





Vienna Symphonic Library


nav




www.vsl.co.at




"
*7. Copyright*
This Software and all accompanying materials are copyrighted. Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH constantly monitors digital product releases and the Internet to check for copyright infringements, and will prosecute all piracy and copyright violations to the fullest extent of the law. You may use the Software on any commercial music release (including music libraries), public performance, broadcast, or similar occasion. You may use any of the Sounds in a commercial recording without paying any additional license fees. The sounds are guaranteed 100% copyright clean. However, the use of _Vienna Instruments_ products requires a specific crediting for Vienna Symphonic Library in the liner notes of the music release: *“Orchestral samples included in this recording from the Vienna Symphonic Library”*. Screen credit for film and television use is not required, but highly appreciated. Multimedia and Game Music use of the Software is restricted to use within the musical compositions themselves.
"

so it's not required for film and television in this eula, and in the other one it kind of is.. (i think.. legal texts are a bitch at times  )

The former (previous license quote in my previous post) was found here:





Terms of Service, Sale, Delivery and License (in the following called "Terms of License") of the Vienna Symphonic Library GmbH., Vienna, Austria (in the following called "VSL") | VSL - Tutorials







www.vsl.info





i think there needs to be a cleanup on vsl's website, two different eula's... Which one is the right one?


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## Ben (Sep 5, 2021)

FireGS said:


> @Ben ???


Yes, that's part of our terms of service.

Here is a less "terms of service"-style answer (https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/legal/terms-of-license):



> _*Do I have to credit this product if I use it on a recording?*_
> 
> With your purchase of a _Vienna Instruments_ Collection, you agree to use the following wording in any credits or liner notes accompanying the music recording, be it a music CD, cassette, or soundtrack compilation: "Orchestral samples included in this recording from the Vienna Symphonic Library". Screen credit for film and television use is not required, but highly appreciated.



Btw, same is true for the VSL orchestral samples of the Kontakt Factory Selection (see manual).


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## Ben (Sep 5, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> i think there needs to be a cleanup on vsl's website, two different eula's... Which one is the right one?


One is the Terms of Service, one is the Terms of License (that one includes a FAQ on top).
I have no idea why two texts are required, but I'm not a lawyer


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## JohnG (Sep 5, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> "As soon as the License Agreement has come into force the Licensee is obliged to include the reference "Orchestral Samples included in this recording from the Vienna Symphonic Library" (or a similar reference) in all Credits, Liner Notes, Booklets and/or similar Content Tables or Track Data of the produced and/or licensed audio recordings (regardless if captured on a sound storage medium and/or otherwise published and distributed and/or transferred digitally as a sound file). A similar reference in theatrical movies and/or TV movies is to be included according to producer’s possibilities and/or according to national law requirements wherever possible."
> 
> --- VSL's EULA


Whatever. 

As a movie / game / tv composer, you don't get full control over credits in anything, even the soundtrack release on CD or vinyl or however it comes out. That's up to the producer(s) of the project and the record label.

And besides, I think it's overreaching, today at least. If anything, it should be "please" not "obliged to" as the wording reads. Decades ago, possibly around the time when this wording was created, it may have been more common, but not today.


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## FireGS (Sep 5, 2021)

JohnG said:


> Whatever.
> 
> As a movie / game / tv composer, you don't get full control over credits in anything, even the soundtrack release on CD or vinyl or however it comes out. That's up to the producer(s) of the project and the record label.
> 
> And besides, I think it's overreaching, today at least. If anything, it should be "please" not "obliged to" as the wording reads. Decades ago, possibly around the time when this wording was created, it may have been more common, but not today.


Yeah and like... whose responsibility is it then to make SURE that credit is given in such a huge machine that is movies, games, TV, etc. What if you tell the producers and they don't do it? The composer is now held liable for breach of ToS? And then what happens?


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## mybadmemory (Sep 5, 2021)

eliogabaluss said:


> I was thinking that adding some more name in the credits would help breaking the monotony of my name in every part of the credit roll.


I’d say if anything it would make it look as if someone was trying to fill out the credits.

Instead of writing out all the parts separate with your name appearing again and again, I would just write “Written, directed, animated, colored, postproducted and composed by: Name Lastname” on one screen.


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## Ben (Sep 5, 2021)

FireGS said:


> The composer is now held liable for breach of ToS? And then what happens?


That's why it's not required but it would be nice to do so for movies, etc.
These ToS are at least 10 years old, and back in the days it made sense to have your product mentioned in the credits (you can see similar product references in video game credits of software components that are used). 
These days things are different, especially the internet has changed a lot of things. I guess this sentence will be changed/dropped in a future revision.
Imo: Probably nothing will happen if you don't mention our libraries in credits, but we will be very happy if you do so


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## eliogabaluss (Sep 5, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Instead of writing out all the parts separate with your name appearing again and again, I would just write “Written, directed, animated, colored, postproducted and composed by: Name Lastname” on one screen.


Thank you, I think this is the best way to solve the problem!


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## NekujaK (Sep 5, 2021)

IMHO, the only reason someone might want to include libraries or instruments in the credits is if they did something totally unexpected and unique with them. Like if everything was played on ukulele but processed in a way that made it sound like an entire orchestra. In a case like that, crediting the tech might add to the "coolness" or "artistic" factor of the score, since it's a notable accomplishment.

And of course, if you have live musicians, it's not uncommon to credit their particular performance. Sound design would be another possible credit.

But if you're simply using a string library for strings, and an organ library for an organ, etc., then it's unecessary and rather pointless to name the libraries. The audience doesn't understand and doesn't care.


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## Ben (Sep 5, 2021)

NekujaK said:


> But if you're simply using a string library for strings, and an organ library for an organ, etc., then it's unecessary and rather pointless to name the libraries. The audience doesn't understand and doesn't care.


Yes, that's right. But the professional users do did (back in the days when the internet was too slow to download a library. And you had to wait for a package full of DVDs to install the samples from.)


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## NekujaK (Sep 5, 2021)

No one feels it's important to credit my Fender, Gibson, and PRS electric guitars, Taylor and Ovation acoustic guitars, Baldwin baby grand, Paiste cymbals, Fender bass, etc. when I use them in a score. Why should an instrument library be different?


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## FireGS (Sep 5, 2021)

NekujaK said:


> No one feels it's important to credit my Fender, Gibson, and PRS electric guitars, Taylor and Ovation acoustic guitars, Baldwin baby grand, Paiste cymbals, Fender bass, etc. when I use them in a score. Why should an instrument library be different?


Then again, loooots of people feel the need to put similar credits in their forum signatures


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## timprebble (Sep 5, 2021)

I appreciate you are primarily discussing music libraries but be aware some 'free' sound FX also require onscreen credit for use. A good example is a scream sound effect released under Creative Commons license at Freesound. “Male loud scream" was used in sound design in the film Children of Men and as per the attribution requirements, also had to be credited onscreen.... and it was.

Seems silly and impractical, especially given there would be maybe 100,000+ other sound fx in the film which sensibly go uncredited. But it is important to verify license rights, as I sure would not want to be the supervising sound editor having to go to the producer asking to add credits to a film...

"and there is a fart in R4 that needs credit... etc


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## Daryl (Sep 6, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> That is not always the case though, read the EULA's closely. Sometimes for certain usage((for some this is for use in movies, tv-shows or games)) you need to ask permission or you need to credit the developer in some fashion.


None of this is enforceable, and no matter what you, as a composer says, you have zero say as to what's on the credits for the vast majority of work that you do.


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## eliogabaluss (Sep 6, 2021)

Thanks again to everyone, I appreciate the discussion, it’s very interesting. 
I couldn’t find the specific EULA for the Spitfire Audio BBC SO Discover therefore I don’t know if they want to be credited. 
By the way, IF I would credit it despite of what the EULA says, what should be the proper way to do it?


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## Loïc D (Sep 6, 2021)

NekujaK said:


> No one feels it's important to credit my Fender, Gibson, and PRS electric guitars, Taylor and Ovation acoustic guitars, Baldwin baby grand, Paiste cymbals, Fender bass, etc. when I use them in a score. Why should an instrument library be different?


You could still mention “NekuJak plays Steinway Pianos” and hope to be endorsed one day


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## FireGS (Sep 6, 2021)

eliogabaluss said:


> Thanks again to everyone, I appreciate the discussion, it’s very interesting.
> I couldn’t find the specific EULA for the Spitfire Audio BBC SO Discover therefore I don’t know if they want to be credited.
> By the way, IF I would credit it despite of what the EULA says, what should be the proper way to do it?


I still wouldn't. If you do it for one library, you should do it for all of them. Or not at all.


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## Living Fossil (Sep 6, 2021)

eliogabaluss said:


> I didn't buy the library because I'm using the Spitfire BBC Orchestra Discover free edition.


What you can do if you feel obliged for somebody providing free samples is to thank them, which isn't a bad thing.
Credit lists usually have a "thanks to" category.
Here you can also mention e.g. people who provide free plugins.


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## eliogabaluss (Sep 6, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> What you can do if you feel obliged for somebody providing free samples is to thank them, which isn't a bad thing.
> Credit lists usually have a "thanks to" category.
> Here you can also mention e.g. people who provide free plugins.


Simple and yet perfect. Thank you!


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## RonOrchComp (Sep 6, 2021)

Daryl said:


> None of this is enforceable,


It actually IS enforceable, however, I really do not think any developer is going to go after a composer who did not list their library in the credits. That would be a really BAD look for them.

elio: how about this:

*Sample Libraries provided by:

VSL
Spitfire Audio
Cinesamples
*
...and on


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## NekujaK (Sep 6, 2021)

RonOrchComp said:


> elio: how about this:
> 
> *Sample Libraries provided by:
> 
> ...


That's an elegant way to approach it, however, I might change "Sample Libraries" to "Virtual Instruments". The latter sounds more musical, and the word "sample" can be misinterpreted by the general audience as sampled recordings, ala hip-hop and pop music.


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## RonOrchComp (Sep 6, 2021)

NekujaK said:


> change "Sample Libraries" to "Virtual Instruments".



Agreed.


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