# Assisted mixing: Neutron? Gullfoss? Ozone? Ideas?



## Harry (Jul 28, 2020)

I've been looking at tools which can assist me with some automated mixing suggestions - been looking at Neutron, Ozone, and Gullfoss. Can anyone recommend these tools from a mixing perspective, and what their work flow is - is the software placed on individual tracks, or busses, or Master? Do they really work? Any other recommendations other than the ones I list?


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## doctoremmet (Jul 28, 2020)

For mastering: T-RackS 5 has Mastermatch, which has helped me a number of times. IK Multimedia also has Lurssen Mastering Console. Both can be used on your stereo mix in a standalone fashion (which I like), or as a plugin on a bus.

There have been some threads on Lurssen. I have used both for succesfully doing a “quick” mastering “process”, e.g. before sharing a track with someone. I think the usability also depends on the style of your music

Of course one would still need to have a decent mix to begin with. I don’t use any automatic / intelligent tools for that (yet).


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## SupremeFist (Jul 28, 2020)

Neutron is the only one of those that claims to be able to mix your track for you, and yes you need to insert it as a plugin on every track. (I have it and have used individual modules on certain tracks, but never tried it that way.) 

Gullfoss can enhance clarity on the mix bus but it won't remix levels for you.

Ozone on the mix bus can do a pretty credible job of AI "mastering" or at least rough finalising to send to collaborators etc, but again it's not mixing. Though its Tonal Balance Control can be really helpful in suggesting visually where your mix might be out of whack. 

Hth.


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## Kent (Jul 28, 2020)

+1 on Tonal Balance Control—not AI, but an incredibly helpful metering plug-in!


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## Rasoul Morteza (Jul 28, 2020)

The way I use Gullfoss is by a giving a final touch to my master and group tracks. I've found it to give better results for pop productions (and similar), compared to anything orchestral.

Neutron and Ozone have excellent presets, I use them for both stem mixing and mastering.

And of course this is merely my opinion.

Cheers


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## Cheezus (Jul 28, 2020)

They're both CPU hogs and my CPU is very subpar so I don't usually use the Neutron AI mixing, but I do always use the Ozone Master Assistant before rendering a track. I like to use Neutron's individual plugins like the EQ and compressor which have some good presets.

I'm pretty inexperienced with that stuff so I appreciate being steered in a direction.

Edit: Should clarify I haven't used gullfoss, only Ozone 9 and Neutron 3


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## nordicguy (Jul 28, 2020)

+1 for Gullfoss
I’d add some useful ones made by Mastering The Mix.
It’s worth a look at.


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## ryst (Jul 28, 2020)

I personally don't use Neutron for any sort of mix assisting, but I did some tests just to see how it worked. I didn't vibe with it. But it certainly has potential. Especially if they can combine the track enhance and balance into one step for a whole mix and add panning as well. But even then, i'm not sure I'd use it. My tastes are certainly different than iZotope's AI. 

I do use Neutron a lot though. I love the eq and the ability to sidechain other tracks to it's dynamic eq or multi-band compressor when I'm mixing music or film.

I use Gullfoss on the first insert of my busses and Master fader to do the first bit of eqing. Then from there I'll use another EQ to do more enhancements or fine tuning.

I use Ozone a lot. But mainly the multi-band compressor. I'm not actually compressing though, Just using it to solo different ranges of frequencies when I'm mixing and a/b with whatever reference tracks I'm using.


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## Damarus (Jul 28, 2020)

I've acutally gotten bored with iZotope stuff (aside from RX). I just never feel satisfied compared other things in its category. 

Gulfoss is greatttt though. DSEQ/Soothe2 are other great plugins in this category that I'm currently comparing.


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## R. Soul (Jul 29, 2020)

Must haves IMO are Bassroom, Mixroom, Soothe 2 and Gullfoss. Metric AB or equivalent A/B tool is also up there, although not an AI tool as such.

By using those 5 my mixes have improved immensely. 
I have Neutron (v1) but Pro-Q3 now covers the dynamic EQ part, so I don't use Neutron anymore.


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## Mornats (Jul 29, 2020)

ryst said:


> I use Ozone a lot. But mainly the multi-band compressor. I'm not actually compressing though, Just using it to solo different ranges of frequencies when I'm mixing and a/b with whatever reference tracks I'm using.



I never thought of using this in that way, I'm going to give that a go, thanks.


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## MartinH. (Jul 29, 2020)

ryst said:


> I use Ozone a lot. But mainly the multi-band compressor. I'm not actually compressing though, Just using it to solo different ranges of frequencies when I'm mixing and a/b with whatever reference tracks I'm using.



Is there any benefit to this method over just putting an EQ with highpass and lowpass on your monitoring FX chain?


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## NekujaK (Jul 29, 2020)

All the primary choices have been mentioned in previous posts, so let be throw in a few not so obvious options:

Acustica: Several of Acustica's plugins now have so-called "AI" presets. Instead of a typical static preset, these presets analyze the signal and make adjustments according to the preset creator's mixing style. The results vary, but it can be surprisingly effective in certain situations. Not all of their EQs have this feature, so read the plugin descriptions carefully to be sure.

Plugin Alliance - DSM v3: This is a really cool plugin once you get the hang of it. It's sort of like a matching EQ, but uses compression - that's a simplified explanation. Check out YouTube for some tutorial videos.

Sonible - smart:EQ: Analyzes your material and comes up with an appropriate EQ curve based on the selected profile. You can adjust the results and intensity to taste.

Hornet - ThirtyOne: A 31-band dynamic EQ that adjusts the EQ curve based on the signal. It can bring clarity to a mix when used on the 2-buss. All Hornet plugins are very affordably priced, and this one is no exception.


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## ryst (Jul 29, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Is there any benefit to this method over just putting an EQ with highpass and lowpass on your monitoring FX chain?



The filters are different between the eq and the multi-band comp, at least to my ears. I haven’t bothered to see if I can make the eq null with the multiband comp but that would be interesting.

That’s not a “_benefit_”, though. It’s just a preferred way of working for me. I think an eq would work fine. But now I’m really curious because I want to know if the crossovers on the Ozone multiband comp sound different than the Ozone’s eq filters at the same slope. My initial guess is they do because they both serve a different purpose. But I want to hear it. 

I’ll report back!

BTW, there is a free plugin that essentially does the same thing. It works well for this purpose. 









ISOL8


Isol8 is a free and advanced mix monitoring tool. It divides the frequency range into 5 bands. These 5 bands can be soloed or muted individually. This will help you to concentrate on certain frequency ranges during the mixing and mastering process.




www.tb-software.com


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## David Cuny (Jul 29, 2020)

Izotope pretty much is leading the pack in software that can "suggest" settings, by analyzing your individual tracks and providing EQ and other settings.

For balancing tracks in the mix process, I'd suggest having a look at tonal balance tools.

No surprise, Izotope also leads the pack here as well.

But anything that shows your song's spectrum vs. a reference track will work. SPAN is pretty popular, and here's a tutorial for using ReaFIR in Reaper. Your DAW of choice should have something comparable.

Adjusting the tonal balance in the mix instead of the mastering stage is obviously going to give you a finer degree of control.


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## José Herring (Jul 29, 2020)

Listening to Gullfoss demos. I like what I'm hearing. A couple of problems that I struggle with on these "auto" adjusting plugins, though it takes away the bad things it also takes away some of the good. I listened to the piano before and after demos because I know piano the best and I find that the "after" demo the piano loses some of its depth and some of its dynamic expression. The "After" demo is certainly smoother and less harsh though. So that's what I struggle with when mixing and mastering my own demos and album pieces. I use Ozone and that's exactly what happens to me. I end up losing a lot of what I love about music in order to fix the recording. Haven't really found that balance yet and fear that the more things go "AI" or "autofix" the more samey music will start to sound. 

It's a perplexing problem as I can see the benefits of using Gullfoss. I actually like the "before" as well as the "after".


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## José Herring (Jul 29, 2020)

Just listen to the folk violin demo now. Same thing. Gullfoss is interpreting the harsh sound of the violin nearer to the frog of the bow as "too harsh" then taming it. That sound is GREAT!!!! It's what makes a violin sound COOL!

Gullfoss also pulled the background violins forward or maybe the lead one back. overriding the player's natural sense of ensemble balance. But...it did get rid of the boxy hollow sound. So it's tough to judge what is more beneficial, the "better" sounding recording with less expression or the "not so good" mix with more expression.


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## hansmagnus (Jul 29, 2020)

Gullfoss literally lifts my mixes like a good 15-20% because it clears the muddiness in the mix. Ever since my trial ran out I kid you not I went and bought it instantly 

I use Gullfoss on the master bus (works great), some people like use it on the group busses. 

Oh and just I LOVE Ozone! If you're gonna get it, get it from pluginbotique.com, where you can get the Advanced version of Ozone 9 for a lot less than the regular price!

The good thing about these plugins also, is that they're SUPER easy to understand, and if you want quick GREAT results, this is what you would ever need.


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## rotho (Jul 29, 2020)

I use gullfoss a lot. It’s scarily useful but also kinda a magic sound good black box.

Initially I used neutron a lot but I seem to use it less now. I think a lot of the automated stuff in it tends to go overboard and make the mix sound very hyped / processed and synthetic.

However I use tonal balance control on everything. The mastering assistant is also useful as a place to start but that too can go overboard especially in the EQ extremes imho


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## A minor (Jul 29, 2020)

In my last album I tried using Ozone but didn’t agree with what they wanted to make of it. I tried Gullfoss but it has no presets and it’s totally up to my own ears to think I know what that AI is doing to my master sound. 
I did use Sonible’s EQ and Comp everywhere. I was willing to trust their presets and don’t think I ever tweaked them. I figured I wanted to try somebodies AI to help me in areas that I struggle in. My ears aren’t what they used to be. And ears are extremely important when mixing/mastering.
As I was trying to finish up mastering Sonible/Focusrite came out with a plugin called Balancer which was exactly what I needed to finish with. It has some source presets and has three master settings of Warm, Neutral and Bright.


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## ryst (Jul 29, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Is there any benefit to this method over just putting an EQ with highpass and lowpass on your monitoring FX chain?



I tried to null Ozone 9's eq and multi-band comp but couldn't. Too many variables between the 2.

But I might end up just using the eq because it's super simple to have 2 nodes at say 100hz and 500hz, highlight the nodes and simply drag them where I want to solo an area. Much more effiient. In the end, anything like an EQ, multi-band comp, or the TB Audio ISOL8 will work.


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## macmac (Aug 24, 2020)

R. Soul said:


> Must haves IMO are Bassroom, Mixroom, Soothe 2 and Gullfoss. Metric AB or equivalent A/B tool is also up there, although not an AI tool as such.
> 
> By using those 5 my mixes have improved immensely.
> I have Neutron (v1) but Pro-Q3 now covers the dynamic EQ part, so I don't use Neutron anymore.


Having Neutron/Ozone with the tonal balance etc. is there still good use for Bassroom and Mixroom, or are they redundant?


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## R. Soul (Aug 24, 2020)

macmac said:


> Having Neutron/Ozone with the tonal balance etc. is there still good use for Bassroom and Mixroom, or are they redundant?


I haven't used Tonal balance, but it's only 4 bands as far as I can tell. BassRoom has 5 bands and MixRoom 4, so you can therefore do much more precise adjustments. Not sure how they compare otherwise.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 24, 2020)

macmac said:


> Having Neutron/Ozone with the tonal balance etc. is there still good use for Bassroom and Mixroom, or are they redundant?


Bassroom is still very useful in conjunction with (before) Tonal Balance Control because it gives you microscopic focus over 0-200hz. I don't know about Mixroom because I demoed it and it suggested some really weird eq moves, maybe I was doing something wrong...


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## R. Soul (Aug 24, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Bassroom is still very useful in conjunction with (before) Tonal Balance Control because it gives you microscopic focus over 0-200hz. I don't know about Mixroom because I demoed it and it suggested some really weird eq moves, maybe I was doing something wrong...


Yeah, I often get these '+6 dB at 10 khz' suggestions, but once you lower them to a more reasonable amount, it's usually spot on. Latest version of MixRoom also has a 'gain scale' parameter which lowers all bands in one go.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 27, 2020)

Ozone’s Tonal Balance has an option to show the full spectrum of target levels if you need the extra detail and don’t want to just focus on the four main frequency ranges.


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