# Composing with a conscience



## will_m (Sep 19, 2014)

Hey guys, bit of a weird one and apologies if this has been discussed before but just wondered what other peoples take on this matter is.

I normally write bespoke music but recently I've started writing for a few libraries, the process so far is I write them submit them and then hopefully they get used. I don't always find out where the tracks are going but just recently I found my music used on a show that lets just say I don't really approve of, purely on moral grounds.

Just wondered if anyone else out there has come across the same issue, or if you don't believe there is an issue I'd love to hear your thoughts too.


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## Stephen Rees (Sep 19, 2014)

I write library music. This does create the risk that some of my music will end up in shows I wouldn't have wished them to.

I try and minimise the chances of that happening by writing tracks for albums that I think have the most likelihood ending up in places I'd be happy for them to be used ('Children's Fantasy Music' rather than 'Ominous Serial Killer Music' for example).


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## RiffWraith (Sep 19, 2014)

Hey - you might be surprised how effective 'Children's Fantasy Music' can be when put to a serial killer hacking off someone's limbs.

Will > I hear where you are coming from, but unless you have an extremely close and long standing relationship with your publisher (and that may not even help), you have absolutely no say in where your music gets used once submitted to a lib. Assuming that your music is not being used in some terrorist training or recruiting tool.... TBH, you should be happy your music is getting used and that you are making money, and not worry yourself so much about where it is used. As long as nobody is getting hurt, take the money, and move along.

Cheers.


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## Daryl (Sep 19, 2014)

I would be more concerned with the fact that your computer was probably produced in a factory that had minimal health and safety precautions, less than minimum wage paid and safety nets installed to try to minimise employee suicide attempts. Where your music is used is a tiny concern compared with many others.

D


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## will_m (Sep 20, 2014)

Cheers guys, all good points and I must admit I didn't think of it that way and I'm always pleased when someone even takes an interest in my work.

I think I'm still in that place where each piece is like a baby and you just want to see it go to a good home so to speak.


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## Simplesly (Sep 20, 2014)

I once got the offer to score a soft porn show on Skinemax. I turned it down because i was 22 and felt weird about doing porn. That was probably a huge mistake looking back on it. Point is, I agree with Riff, be happy for yourself that your music is on a TV show! That's great. Unless it's racist or otherwise patently offensive, then I wouldn't hesitate to see if you can get in touch with the music supervisor and see if they can stop using your tracks (if that's possible).


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## autopilot (Sep 20, 2014)

Donate the money you earnt on something ethically good ?


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 20, 2014)

A very valid concern.
It is one thing to agree knowingly to collaborate on a project that doesn't have the best of intentions on a spiritual level, and another to do honest work, and for that work to be used for a purpose that you didn't anticipate...
Be at peace with yourself, since you have no control over the way your music is being used. 
I used to collect royalties for Saint-Saens' work and there would always be the occasional porn film that used some of his music for background...


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## bbunker (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm going to regret this, but:

The Saint-Saens work that they used;

Was it the Organ Symphony?

Sorry. I just had to.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 20, 2014)

bbunker @ Sat Sep 20 said:


> I'm going to regret this, but:
> 
> The Saint-Saens work that they used;
> 
> ...



Ha!, no regrets to be had, but we now know what gets you off! :wink: 

At the top of my mind, I don't believe it was the Organ symphony, but the title of the movie masterpiece was something like "Take me in all of my holes"
...


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## Kralc (Sep 20, 2014)

For a thread about conducting one's career with a certain morality... it's surprisingly salacious. 8)


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## Sebastianmu (Sep 23, 2014)

I think anyone with a conscience shouldn't work for libraries at all. Stock music destroys the prices on the lower end of the food chain, it's a total desaster. Their would be so much more opportunity & money available for the little, skilled composer who is not doing feature films yet, if he wouldn't have to compete with stock music that is available for ridiculously low rates. And what do you gain? Random exposure and some peanuts. It's a bad, BAD thing.. :x

Well - just my 2ct..


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## Daryl (Sep 23, 2014)

Sebastianmu @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> I think anyone with a conscience shouldn't work for libraries at all. Stock music destroys the prices on the lower end of the food chain, it's a total desaster. Their would be so much more opportunity & money available for the little, skilled composer who is not doing feature films yet, if he wouldn't have to compete with stock music that is available for ridiculously low rates. And what do you gain? Random exposure and some peanuts. It's a bad, BAD thing.. :x
> 
> Well - just my 2ct..


Peanuts? Just goes to show that you know nothing. Or maybe £500K a year is peanuts to you. In which case, give some of it to charity and stop whining because you have no career. :wink: 

In all seriousness, why is film scoring somehow legitimate whereas library music isn't, in your view?

D


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## Sebastianmu (Sep 23, 2014)

Daryl @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> In all seriousness, why is film scoring somehow legitimate whereas library music isn't, in your view?
> 
> D



Hey Daryl, as I stated above, the problem that I have with library music is not a problem of legitimacy, it's a problem of market mechanics. It absorbs so much opportunity for people who could get hired to do a little what-ever-it-might-be music job and being payed a fair price for that.


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## Daryl (Sep 23, 2014)

Sebastianmu @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> Daryl @ Tue Sep 23 said:
> 
> 
> > In all seriousness, why is film scoring somehow legitimate whereas library music isn't, in your view?
> ...


You are assuming that the work should go to people who want to write bespoke music. I could equally argue that bespoke music is ruining the market for library composers.

D


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## AC986 (Sep 23, 2014)

Daryl @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> Sebastianmu @ Tue Sep 23 said:
> 
> 
> > I think anyone with a conscience shouldn't work for libraries at all. Stock music destroys the prices on the lower end of the food chain, it's a total desaster. Their would be so much more opportunity & money available for the little, skilled composer who is not doing feature films yet, if he wouldn't have to compete with stock music that is available for ridiculously low rates. And what do you gain? Random exposure and some peanuts. It's a bad, BAD thing.. :x
> ...



Yeah but Daryl you're obviously not a skilled composer because Sebastian says so. And Sebastian knows you know.

Me? I like random exposure. I'll expose myself randomly to anything whenever I feel a random moment coming on.

Errrr...


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## AC986 (Sep 23, 2014)

Daryl @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> Sebastianmu @ Tue Sep 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Daryl @ Tue Sep 23 said:
> ...



I've never been paid a fair price for anything in my entire life. I've either been paid way too much, or far too little.


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## Daryl (Sep 23, 2014)

adriancook @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> I've never been paid a fair price for anything in my entire life. I've either been paid way too much, or far too little.


HAHA. I know what you mean.

D


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## Sebastianmu (Sep 23, 2014)

C'mon guys, you know what I'm talking about, and you know it's a problem.


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## AC986 (Sep 23, 2014)

Sebastianmu @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> C'mon guys, you know what I'm talking about, and you know it's a problem.



Sebastian, where does it say bespoke film-score writers are better than bespoke library writers?


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## Daryl (Sep 23, 2014)

Sebastianmu @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> C'mon guys, you know what I'm talking about, and you know it's a problem.


It's not a problem for library composers. In fact I would say that a much bigger problem is caused by composers who use samples rather than booking musicians to play their music. This practice has pretty much decimated the recording industry. Maybe their conscience could kick in there. :wink: 

D


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## Daryl (Sep 23, 2014)

adriancook @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> Sebastianmu @ Tue Sep 23 said:
> 
> 
> > C'mon guys, you know what I'm talking about, and you know it's a problem.
> ...


Or even more entitled to work. It's not their work. It's not my work. It's work. That's it. End of. No one group of composers is more entitled to it than any other person.

D


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## Sebastianmu (Sep 23, 2014)

adriancook @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> Sebastian, where does it say bespoke film-score writers are better than bespoke library writers?



Adrian, nowhere, because it's not about "being better" at all. 

It's about this: There is a certain demand on the lower end of the media music market that could offer plenty of opportunities for musicians who are young and maybe just starting their careers to generate some income on a fairly regular basis, gaining experience in real-world, professional situations, but still on projects that are not super important. It would be somewhat like the equivalent of a gig in your local pub - just for a media composer, you know, you provide something, it turned out well, it's not super important, but people are happy and you made a bit of money. 

That's something which is just next too impossible if people have to compete with library tracks..


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## Daryl (Sep 23, 2014)

Sebastianmu @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> adriancook @ Tue Sep 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Sebastian, where does it say bespoke film-score writers are better than bespoke library writers?
> ...


So I should reduce my income so that talentless wannabe media hacks can get some work? What do you suggest that I do for a living then, as you want to take my job away from me? :roll: 

D


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## AC986 (Sep 23, 2014)

Sebastian, what if I can't get a gig in my local pub? 

Are you saying I should be trying to get direct gigs for writing directly to film and television?

What if I try that and don't get any gigs? How am I going to make any money Sebastian?

I'm on Denplan you know.

Also, Daryl and I went to the same music college. A rather good one, although I concede that doesn't mean much these days. But what does that mean in the greater scheme of music hacks that write directly to tv/film to people like us?


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## Sebastianmu (Sep 23, 2014)

I'm not saying everyone who is trying to be a film composer (or whatever) is neccessarily meant for that, that's a completely different topic. 

I just think the threshold for getting commissioned work in this field is too high because of stock music and I don't think, that's a good thing.

And Daryl - do you really _only_ do library music?


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## Daryl (Sep 23, 2014)

Sebastianmu @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> And Daryl - do you really _only_ do library music?


No. I do other things, but my main job is writing library music.

D


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## Sebastianmu (Sep 23, 2014)

Well, I'm sorry then, I didn't wanna take your job away from you.


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## Daryl (Sep 23, 2014)

Sebastianmu @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> Well, I'm sorry then, I didn't wanna take your job away from you.


That's alright. You wouldn't be the first person to try to do that. :wink: 

However, just so you understand what I'm talking about, my normal working pattern is 5 days a week, 10-6 with two mornings off, no deadlines that I don't set myself, no evening work, no weekend work, never worrying about the next gig, no director/producer networking meetings and if I want to take a few months off, I can, with pretty much no loss of income. Most film/TV composers can't work like that. There are exceptional periods, but they are out of choice, not necessity.

D


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## Sebastianmu (Sep 23, 2014)

Daryl @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> My normal working pattern is 5 days a week, 10-6 with two mornings off, no deadlines that I don't set myself, no evening work, no weekend work, never worrying about the next gig, no director/producer networking meetings and if I want to take a few months off, I can, with pretty much no loss of income.



I certainly wouldn't want that being taken away from me either.. 

Have a nice afternoon, gents.


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## Simplesly (Sep 23, 2014)

Sebastian, 

There has always been stock music, seriously since like the beginning of motion pictures. There is just a lot more of it now because, in a nutshell, there is way more media out there that needs music. The vast majority is created on a micro budget and the creators couldn't afford bespoke (I love that you Brits have a fancy word for 'custom'  music anyway. Getting a regular gig scoring is just as hard as it's always been. You should honestly be happy that you can write music for so many libraries and get paid. Of course there are some problems with different types of licensing arrangements, but I think if you are good and have a high output you can get into a gainful situation. Maybe not holy grail Daryl territory, but at least support yourself through your music.


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## Daryl (Sep 23, 2014)

Simplesly @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> Maybe not holy grail Daryl territory....


I do like that description, but it's far from that. For me Holy Grail" would be never having to do anything but write and conduct, maybe a couple of days a week. No poring over budgets and stupid titling sessions, no music prep, no having to travel to a studio to record... The list goes on. However, I do appreciate how fortunate I am and try to give back whenever I can.

D


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## Simplesly (Sep 23, 2014)

I also wish I could fart rainbows, but seriously... 


:D :D :D


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## Daryl (Sep 23, 2014)

Simplesly @ Tue Sep 23 said:


> I also wish I could fart rainbows, but seriously...
> 
> 
> :D :D :D


Let's revisit this in a few years and see who is the closest. :lol: 

D


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## José Herring (Sep 23, 2014)

The only real beauty of library music is you can write it then forget about it afterwords. And, you don't have to take credit for it if you don't want to. It's almost freeing. Because, if you have too much of a consciousness in this business you'll never get anything done. Think about it, guy makes a movie like Batman then some nutcase takes it as inspiration for laying waste to people at a movie theater. You could debate all day the effect of violence in movies and how responsible the artist is, but in truth, it's not your fault that there are nutcases in the world.

There are bad people, our only defense is to make the best music we can. That's how I see it.


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