# Looking for a high class budget DA converter/interface to improve monitoring



## curry36 (Nov 2, 2021)

I have recently bought Geithain speakers and learned the hard way that DA conversion is a real thing, and all of the "you can produce a hit on a 200 bucks interface"-people are just talking philosophy and won't take into consideration your personal point of view - who are you, how do you listen, what sound/music would you like to achive, what speaker do you have, what workflow etc.

So I had a Steinberg UR12, which is a very cheap interface and I just didn't get the depth and stereo imaging I expected to get from the Geithains. The mids were muddy, the transients could be better.. (these are high class speakers).

Then a friend borrowed me his RME Fireface UC, which he says is just a middle class converter after he recently bought a Prism Orpheus. The RME was at least good enough to bling clarity to everything that was shady before. Now I feel that I got the speakers that I paid for. But still, I am not that ignorant anymore to ignore when other ppl tell me, that they can listen to more details and make more logical mixing decisions faster due to their Prism or Apollo interface (or whatever).

I have to give back the RME in a few days so any recommendations would be appreciated. 

There is only one downer: My Thunderbolt card ist not working and I fear that installing a Firewire card is no option. So I def need a USB interface.

1) either a cheap USB interface with ADAT and word clock to then connect a higher class converter (for example the Prism) to that interface, or
2) something like the RME that does the job on it's own, but maybe with even better converters - if something like that exists?

The UAD Apollo X Twin comes as an optional USB interface, however I'd need at least 4 ins - that's the only problem with that one, otherwise that would be a good solution.

Have you heard something about Focusrite Clarett+ ? It has different converters than the cheap Scarlett (I think Apogee converters, not sure?) - I wonder if that's on a league with the RME Fireface UC.

Also how about Audient? It's very very cheap, but also got the ADAT bridge and ppl claim that one to be the best out of all the cheap interfaces (including the SSL interface). Maybe that could be a good solution to use as my 'slave'. If I go for a cheap slave interface however, I'd like it at least to have conversion similar to the RME, because I won't be able to afford two interfaces right now.

Would be glad if anybody can help me out with this. Btw my budget is flexible and if we talk about high class converters, I'll always look for used models. Def can't pay 2,5k for a new Apollo X8 or a 3,5k Prism Titan. I'd go up to 1,5k on reverb for a used premium device and up to 800 bucks for a new one that's is one step below (I think the Foreface IC costs around 800).


----------



## curry36 (Nov 2, 2021)

Do you know if the converters of the RME ADI 2 Pro are playing in a different league than the Babyface/Fireface? Besides that I just saw that it only got 2 ins and outs. I think having only 2 ins is a big compromise for me. That's why I also didn't bother with the Apollo X Twin.

I got 3 friends who all swiched from Babyface/Fireface to Apollo X and/or to Prism Orpheus and they say that what they are monitoring is a totally different league. I'd like to aim for that particular league without ideally spending more than 1,5k - 2k.

I found some deals for a used Metric Halo 2882 3D between 900 and 1500 bucks. Anyone knows how that one compares to the midrange RME converters (Babyface/Fireface) and the high class Apollo X / Prism ones?

The 2882 3D also comes with USB and got enough ins and outs, would fit perfectly to me if the sonic quality delivers.


----------



## fakemaxwell (Nov 2, 2021)

According to RME, the ADI 2 converters are slightly better than the UFX+, but it's getting in the weeds a bit. "Subtle" is probably an understatement. 

Truly doubt the "different league" comments, but hey, whatever sells I guess. In a truly controlled listening environment (a test that basically nobody has been able to do properly), the likelihood that you can pick out the best offerings from RME, Prism, UAD, Metric Halo is slim-to-none. Go with whatever interface fills the rest of your needs properly.


----------



## md11 (Nov 2, 2021)

congrats on the geithains! you could upgrade your interface with a dedicated dac just for monitoring. I have the mytec 096 and my setup is: rme ufx (old version) via aes into mytec dac into dangerous st monitor controller/Speakers. very happy with this setup. or maybe find a used apogee 200 converter? would make a good front-end, too.


----------



## Petrucci (Nov 2, 2021)

I also got interested in conversion not long ago since I wanted to buy some outboard like SSL Fusion to see if some analog mojo can bring some goodness to my music. I have RME Ff400 which has average converters so looking for some options too now. I see that there are some modded RME and other brands interfaces from Revive Audio on Reverb - has anybody heard of them?


----------



## curry36 (Nov 3, 2021)

md11 said:


> congrats on the geithains! you could upgrade your interface with a dedicated dac just for monitoring. I have the mytec 096 and my setup is: rme ufx (old version) via aes into mytec dac into dangerous st monitor controller/Speakers. very happy with this setup. or maybe find a used apogee 200 converter? would make a good front-end, too.


Looks like a great setup! 

Are you talking about this one, Apogee Rosetta 200?


https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/apogee-rosetta-200-ad-da-wand/1682378285-74-9482



And what is aes? Is that similar to ADAT?

That Mytek 096 looks affordable, but if I could get a AD/DA converter in one that also acts as an interface, I think I would prefer that. I'm also recording analog synths and here and then some voice. 

But however I decide, with most of these converters/older interfaces I'd need to have a second interface to make the bridge. I just wonder if the quality of that 'slave' interface would matter at all? 

For example if I get an Audient ID44 budged interfade, connect it via USB and then put a Prism Orpheus behind that via ADAT. I connect my monitors/monitor controller to the outputs of the Prism and should get prism conversion, right?


----------



## Nico5 (Nov 3, 2021)

I've separated my AD/DA conversion from the audio interface by going with an http://v (RME Digiface USB) as the interface providing low latency, very flexible audio routing including loop-back, and multi-client ASIO via USB2. 

And now I get to pick anything with analog to ADAT converters according to my budget and taste. In my case, I just recycled my own old Steinberg MR 816cx (now operating as a pure analog/ADAT converter, while ignoring the Firewire interface), which has reasonably nice Yamaha pre-amps and AD/DA converters, which seem still good enough for my use case. If one day, I upgrade my AD/DA conversion, it just means replugging ADAT (TOSlink) cables, without even touching drivers.


----------



## md11 (Nov 3, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Looks like a great setup!
> 
> Are you talking about this one, Apogee Rosetta 200?
> 
> ...


yes, i meant the Rosetta 200. aes-ebu is 2 channel digital with XLR interconnects. when it comes to a/d d/a conversion I believe the converter chips do not matter that much for they are all high quality nowadays. but low jitter clock and high quality analog components/power supply can make a (ever so sublte) difference.


----------



## md11 (Nov 3, 2021)

curry36 said:


> For example if I get an Audient ID44 budged interfade, connect it via USB and then put a Prism Orpheus behind that via ADAT. I connect my monitors/monitor controller to the outputs of the Prism and should get prism conversion, right?


yes, right.


----------



## curry36 (Nov 3, 2021)

I think that I'll go with Metric Halo, I did some more research and it seems to be a good choice. I think that just solves all of my problems with a single device whilst providing excelent quality. 

I just wonder if the DA converters of the 8-LIO 3D and the 2882 3D are the same and if they only differ in features/preamps. Could save some money if that was the case when buying the 2882 instead of the 8LIO.


----------



## AudioLoco (Nov 4, 2021)

This is the best DAC available to my knowledge for the least amount of money. 

https://soniccircus.com/product/mytek-digital-stereo96-dac/ (Mytek Stereo 96 DAC)

It sounds awesome and an upgrade on most audio interfaces's built in DACs.
Get any RME interface, or any simple interface with even just a digital output (AES, SPDIF, TOSLink) and you are good to go.


----------



## curry36 (Nov 9, 2021)

I've heard good things about Mytek! In the end I decided for the Metric Halo 8-LIO 3D and it's incredible. Can't compare with Mytek or Prism of course but I'm more than happy haering things I never heared before. Especially having more depth and more precise stereo imaging. Also tighter low end. Can recommend it, especially if you're looking into both DA and AD. Check for used ones as Metric Halo released a new series (mk iv) one week ago, so mastering engineers will eventually sell their equipment once shipping starts. That's what Ii did, got it for 1500 bucks.


----------



## md11 (Nov 9, 2021)

awesome you found a good solution! btw. which geithains did you get? I worked a few years in a studio that had the rl903 and they sounded fantastic especially in the midrange


----------



## curry36 (Nov 11, 2021)

Yes, the definition in the mids is really great. And the fast transients and imaging. Especially now with a very good converter. 

I got the RL 904. I've also heared the small RL 906 with a Geithain sub and can say that the Geithain magic is there on all their products. I personally prefer the 904 because they demand more distance to the listening spot and so provide a bigger image. On paper they go down to 40 hertz but I think that the roll of is very very gentle because I feel no need for a sub at all. In the end all of their speakers get this incredible 3D sound where you can close your eyes and see how a well produced dry voice stands in front of your head, while an ambient electric guitar for example is placed literally 10 meters far away from you.

Btw the guy that sold my 904s bought 903s in exchange. He wanted to be able to turn the speakers +6db louder for his homeparties. I try not to judge this statement because he was a very nice and flexible vendor! But other than that (obv a bit more bass) the difference shouldn't be that big (price difference is though). If 5000+ for a single speaker is being considered, I'd highly recommend looking for the K models which are closed and got cardioid characteristics. The 944K would be my dream model because it operates from 1m to 2,6m, is 3-way closed, and got cardioid characteristics. Unfortunately there are never deals on that one.


----------

