# Bechstein has developed its own software piano for Kontakt



## Jake Johnson (Oct 1, 2016)

See:

https://www.bechstein-digital.com/en/


----------



## OleJoergensen (Oct 1, 2016)

Tyank you for sharing.
It sounds real!


----------



## Levitanus (Oct 1, 2016)

while listen demos wasn't impressed. But with walkthrough was, and much 
Thanks!


----------



## Jake Johnson (Oct 1, 2016)

Does anyone recognize the keyboard that they are using in the Walk-Through video?


----------



## tack (Oct 1, 2016)

Jake Johnson said:


> Does anyone recognize the keyboard that they are using in the Walk-Through video?


Komplete Kontrol S series. I think I saw both the S61 and S88.


----------



## Jake Johnson (Oct 1, 2016)

I must have been sleeping. Didn't even know that NI had developed its own set of keyboards. They look interesting, but they don't have many knobs, considering the number of parameters that may exist in a Kontakt library.


----------



## creativeforge (Oct 1, 2016)

*CAREFUL WITH THE DEMOS! Turn your volume WAY DOWN for the first notes of "A Ghost of a chance" and "Clair de Lune" demo. Or you could rupture a tweeter or ear drum. 

Did they put compression on these?*


----------



## Garlu (Oct 1, 2016)

Jake Johnson said:


> Does anyone recognize the keyboard that they are using in the Walk-Through video?



That's NI's Komplete Kontrol S88, I think!


----------



## tack (Oct 1, 2016)

Jake Johnson said:


> They look interesting, but they don't have many knobs, considering the number of parameters that may exist in a Kontakt library.


You can scroll through arbitrarily many pages. Each encoder has a little LCD display that labels its function. It's entirely configurable as well, even without NKS-supported VIs, so you can build your own templates and switch to them.

I do miss having faders though.


----------



## Fleer (Oct 1, 2016)

Jake Johnson said:


> Didn't even know that NI had developed its own set of keyboards. They look interesting ...


Staunch admirer of their NKS format. Solid keyboards, with Fatar action.


----------



## Zookes (Oct 1, 2016)

Fleer said:


> with Fatar action.


So strange to recommend for using realistic piano samples. Fatar is not so realistic piano behavior.


----------



## tack (Oct 1, 2016)

Back on topic, in the intro video there was a passing mention of supporting a continuous sustain pedal, but no concrete statement about half pedaling or repedalling.

So rarely are these things ever mentioned. For a VI piano that positions itself for daily practice and virtuoso performances among other things, their omission on the product pages is suspect.


----------



## Fleer (Oct 1, 2016)

Zookes said:


> So strange to recommend for using realistic piano samples. Fatar is not so realistic piano behavior.


Mine is synth action, S49.


----------



## Lode_Runner (Oct 1, 2016)

Nice find. I note it's recorded at Teldex as well. Although at 249 Euros, I'm not sure I'll be able to afford it.


----------



## Zookes (Oct 1, 2016)

Fleer said:


> Mine is synth action, S49.


Was meaning to question Bechstein endorsing Fatar keybed unit with this new piano library. It is not simulating realistic piano action, tho not to say it is bad like this.

Strange a piano company brags for quality and detail, but has no effort to recommend optimal playing experience by pianists.


----------



## Fleer (Oct 1, 2016)

Yeah. I tried that NI S88 hammer action in store and wasn't very pleased.


----------



## chopin4525 (Oct 2, 2016)

I like the sound and I am curious about the string-EQ concept.


----------



## logburner (Oct 2, 2016)

Levitanus said:


> while listen demos wasn't impressed. But with walkthrough was, and much
> Thanks!



Pretty much same here. For me the voice on the vid has too much ear-bleeding "esss" that I need to turn the volume down every time the voice comes in and turn it up again to listen to the piano. I'm looking forward to "gentle-on-ear" demos.


----------



## Zookes (Oct 2, 2016)

Fleer said:


> Yeah. I tried that NI S88 hammer action in store and wasn't very pleased.


Not _so_ bad. Only not real as a piano.

I dislike the Fatar action for piano playing, but can play well for other things I think.


----------



## slobajudge (Oct 3, 2016)

tack said:


> Back on topic, in the intro video there was a passing mention of supporting a continuous sustain pedal, but no concrete statement about half pedaling or repedalling.
> 
> So rarely are these things ever mentioned. For a VI piano that positions itself for daily practice and virtuoso performances among other things, their omission on the product pages is suspect.



This piano support half pedaling. I forgot to ask them about repedalling, eh


----------



## studiostuff (Oct 4, 2016)

I wrote them about an edu-discount and they responded quickly (a good thing) to say they're thinking about it and possibly working on it. 

I thought the demo was great and I love the Bechstein sound. 

I'm afraid if they offer an edu-discount my wallet is going to take the hit!


----------



## Ashermusic (Oct 4, 2016)

Anyone have it yet?


----------



## prodigalson (Oct 5, 2016)

Seems pricey to me for what it is considering the market for piano VIs


----------



## Shubus (Oct 5, 2016)

Lode_Runner said:


> Nice find. I note it's recorded at Teldex as well. Although at 249 Euros, I'm not sure I'll be able to afford it.


This is where I'm at, too. So nice that it was recorded in Teldex so it should work well with OT libraries--whose pianos I don't particularly care for, but it seems rather pricey.


----------



## eric aron (Oct 6, 2016)

are there una corda samples? I don't see any mention of it..


----------



## studiostuff (Oct 6, 2016)

The mention of the Una Corda, Sos. and Sus. pedals begins in the tutorial video at about :20 seconds. So, there is an adjustable Una Corda reduction of volume mentioned in the video, but no mention of sampled UC.


----------



## prodigalson (Oct 6, 2016)

Shubus said:


> This is where I'm at, too. So nice that it was recorded in Teldex so it should work well with OT libraries--whose pianos I don't particularly care for, but it seems rather pricey.



i'd also note however the part of the webpage where they talk about actively recording the samples as dry as possible. Curious that immediately opposite the paragraph where they advertise recording at Teldex they also say they "_decided to create this instrument with the least possible room reflexions or even reverb." _I wouldn't necessarily expect this to be a "Teldex" piano library.


----------



## Shubus (Oct 6, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> i'd also note however the part of the webpage where they talk about actively recording the samples as dry as possible. Curious that immediately opposite the paragraph where they advertise recording at Teldex they also say they "_decided to create this instrument with the least possible room reflexions or even reverb." _I wouldn't necessarily expect this to be a "Teldex" piano library.


I just noticed that also. Wonder why they went to Teldex at all, if not to capture the hall itself. Guess I can put this in the "would've been nice if......" category.


----------



## Lode_Runner (Oct 6, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> i'd also note however the part of the webpage where they talk about actively recording the samples as dry as possible. Curious that immediately opposite the paragraph where they advertise recording at Teldex they also say they "_decided to create this instrument with the least possible room reflexions or even reverb." _I wouldn't necessarily expect this to be a "Teldex" piano library.


Oh, thanks for pointing that out. That's really odd.


----------



## ChristianM (Oct 7, 2016)

Bechstein is Bechstein
The quality will inevitably be there ...

I bought, but I have problems to get to the download (I have a small connection).
I'll tell you in a few days


----------



## ChristianM (Oct 19, 2016)

This Piano sound good for me...
Feeling is Good, no more CPU usage (but I have 12 cores and 128 GB of RAM).
Yes, I love.

By comparaison with QL Piano Bechstein 280, it's very "more playable", sound a little better and have several presets.

Only one problem for me : several presets have a volume a little different


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Dec 4, 2016)

@ChristianM 
are you willing to post a few examples, alone and/or in context with other instruments?

Don't know if you have time for this, but if possible it will be appreciated.


----------



## creativeforge (Dec 4, 2016)

There are many in this playlist. Is this what you're looking for?


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Dec 4, 2016)

Thank you creativeforge.

I did have a listen to them, yes.
As I mentioned in the thread about 'best piano lib' : the phenomena that on their own they sound good, as this one indeed does, but when used in context with other instruments they become a thin sounding piano.
Even with just a cello or any other solo instrument.

So I hope to get more info from actual users, before forking over €270,- (or approximate I believe the price is) and yet again experience this unwelcomed effect.

So far the only one I have tried that stays intact is Artvista's supergrand. And probably the malmsjo will do too, but I'd like to have a different flavour as well as more dynamics.

So this bechstein looks good by its specs, and sounds from these examples. And then I start to get concerned how it holds up in actual use.

( so far these fairly high quality piano's have not remained intact in context and on their own: ravenscroft 275, galaxy vienna grand)

And a great many piano libs are not to my liking as a piano player, due to the many subtle nuances I hope to be able to achieve. And sound/ character also play a role. So I cannot find myself playing the sounds of most NI piano's, Garritan, sonicouture's etc.
Imperfect samples piano have a lot of character but unfortunately they have so many quircks that it becomes too up front. The fazioli is lovely in sound, but has so much flaws it became unusable.

So all in all, so far I have come to either Keyscape's C7 or this Bechstein.
Much can be found on Keyscape but not so much on the Bechstein.


----------



## creativeforge (Dec 4, 2016)

As a piano player myself, and not doing orchestral vi work where a piano is part of an ensemble, I tend to consider how a piano fairs in a solo situation. So I do understand what you mean. I'm thinking out loud: the mic placement and the number of them, would normally be different with a solo recording as opposed to an ensemble one. As well at the mixing stage. Can this not help inform the use a strong solo piano sample that tends to sound thin?

I have owned and used Gigapiano, Ivory II and East West Piano Gold (Bosendorfer or Bechstein), personally. Bechstein's own, does sound more alive to me so far. Have you had a chance to sample the Hans Zimmer piano?


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Dec 4, 2016)

creativeforge said:


> As a piano player myself, and not doing orchestral vi work where a piano is part of an ensemble, I tend to consider how a piano fairs in a solo situation. So I do understand what you mean. I'm thinking out loud: the mic placement and the number of them, would normally be different with a solo recording as opposed to an ensemble one. As well at the mixing stage. Can this not help inform the use a strong solo piano sample that tends to sound thin?
> 
> I have owned and used Gigapiano, Ivory II and East West Piano Gold (Bosendorfer or Bechstein), personally. Bechstein's own, does sound more alive to me so far. Have you had a chance to sample the Hans Zimmer piano?


Oh indeed, choices in mics may be used indeed in contextual settings.
Eventhough with todays tools that can also be achieved well. Earreverb2 has enough spacial placement possibilities for my aims, with good results.

All in all, my personal needs are:
- good sound and character
- enough dynamics and velocity layers to play as an actual piano ( or as much as is possible)
- remains with a full bodied sound on its own and in concert with other instruments.
- preferable with adjustable resonance, repedaling, half pedal, tonal adjustments and velocity curve.

Should be easy, isn't it? :D

NB: no Hans Zimmers piano I have not aimed for. It also lacks some of my preferred requirements. And when I listened to it some time ago, does seem to be more aimed at studio/ cinematic sound rather then as a classical, intimate sounding piano.


----------



## creativeforge (Dec 4, 2016)

I'll be interested to see what you may find!


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Dec 4, 2016)

Are you aiming for a new piano lib?

Or: which is your current one you use the most as a piano player yourself?


----------



## creativeforge (Dec 4, 2016)

I've been on a hiatus for 11 years, so things gave changed quite a bit. But like I mentioned, I have owned and used Gigapiano, Ivory I & II (Steinway & Yamaha) and East West Piano Gold (Bosendorfer & Bechstein). You quickly find limitations, though, and the organic interaction with the sound is missing, so the sound becomes everything. The acoustic piano itself, however, allows you a full experience, an unmistakable "presence" that reaches the soul, it hasn't been replicated, nor will it ever be, unless you get the perfect blend of controller, pedal unit, sound system and sample... 

I'd like to test the Bechstein. I played the real thing a few years ago in a piano store in Calgary, Alberta. I was able, within half and hour in the same store, to play a few concert grands: Steinway, Bosendorfer (Imperial), Yahama C7, Kawai, Fazioli (7 foot), and then the Bechstein last, and it was a shock. A sweet shock. It's as if the instrument gave way to the music somehow, it was so fluid and everything about it felt "just right." It was quite an emotional experience.

All pianos were tuned, but not sure about being voiced. But all of them were on the store floor (carpet) except the Fazioli and the Bechstein that were on a stage. 

The Ivory II allows me to dial in an intimate sound, and adjust the resonance and intrinsic noises (felt lifting from strings, some pedal noises, etc).


----------



## ChristianM (Dec 4, 2016)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> @ChristianM
> are you willing to post a few examples, alone and/or in context with other instruments?
> 
> Don't know if you have time for this, but if possible it will be appreciated.



Why not ?
I will try with a small piece (piano + bohemian violin + orchestra).
I will change from Pianoteq-Steinway to Beichtein-Beichtein.
A moment please...


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Dec 4, 2016)

Looking foreward to what you come up with.

Ps: so far pianoteq hasn't appealed to my ears. So indeed: bechstein-bechstein is good!

And bohemian violin too btw!


----------



## ChristianM (Dec 4, 2016)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Looking foreward to what you come up with.
> 
> Ps: so far pianoteq hasn't appealed to my ears. So indeed: bechstein-bechstein is good!
> 
> And bohemian violin too btw!




Here

(warning : I'm not a pro :


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks a lot. very nice of you yo do this.

For a quickie that must have been fun to do.
Nice pianistik playing, and some flavours of romanticism in there.

Ok, so far it holds up as a piano.

Are you willing to do one last shorty (romantic will do) where you go from pp slowly to ff and back? Piano only is fine.

Merci beaucoup!


----------



## lp59burst (Dec 4, 2016)

Wonderful... thanks for posting. I too am on the fence about the Bechstein... could you possibly post this or another one with just the piano and no VirH Bohemian Violin please. I'd like to hear it played solo if you wouldn't mind...


----------



## Fleer (Dec 4, 2016)

Bechstein Digital seems interesting indeed. May try to add it to the Bach counterpoint project.


----------



## ChristianM (Dec 4, 2016)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Thanks a lot. very nice of you yo do this.
> 
> For a quickie that must have been fun to do.
> Nice pianistik playing, and some flavours of romanticism in there.
> ...



In 2 minutes, on soundcloud : you have arpege ppp to fff for 3 presets + with and without sustain


----------



## ChristianM (Dec 4, 2016)

Simple arpege, ppp to fff, fff to ppp for 3 presets, 2 ranges, + with and without sustain (mp3 is not subtil for ppp  :


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Dec 4, 2016)

ChristianM said:


> Simple arpege, ppp to fff, fff to ppp for 3 presets, 2 ranges, + with and without sustain (mp3 is not subtil for ppp  :



Thank you very much for making this possible ChristianM!

You helped me (or us since there are more interested) a great deal with getting a sense for the merits of this piano library.


----------



## lp59burst (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks ChristianM for doing this...

I've listened to it several times and I'm hearing a somewhat metallic flanging / squeaking kinda sound when you get near _fff _as the notes trail off... very noticeable around the 7:00 & 11:10 marks. 

Anyone else hearing this?


----------



## slobajudge (Dec 5, 2016)

There is nothing quality new in Bechstain digital that separate this library from lots of others. Sustain pedal causes CPU problems. For any sample piano lover Keyscape Yamaha is a better sounding and more playable product. Unfortunately there is no half pedal and sympathetic resonance. Eh, always something missing and waiting for another VST. I am not a fun of sample pianos at all, too much compromise for solo playing and still spending my money for this. Hope dies last


----------



## Fleer (Dec 5, 2016)

I tend to disagree. I do love Pianoteq's Blüthner and 'nouveau-né' Grotrian-Steinweg. But sampled grands can sound sublime as well. And ImpactSoundworks' Pearl has better presets than Keyscape's Yamaha C7. Also, Wavesfactory's new Fazioli brings tears of joy to my eyes. And this new Bechstein Digital is so close to a real one that I've come as close as possible to having one at home. My conclusion: for highly playable and musical pianos, go Pianoteq. For deeper and fuller sounding grands yet maybe not as playable, get these sampled ones.


----------



## slobajudge (Dec 6, 2016)

Fleer said:


> I tend to disagree. I do love Pianoteq's Blüthner and 'nouveau-né' Grotrian-Steinweg. But sampled grands can sound sublime as well. And ImpactSoundworks' Pearl has better presets than Keyscape's Yamaha C7. Also, Wavesfactory's new Fazioli brings tears of joy to my eyes. And this new Bechstein Digital is so close to a real one that I've come as close as possible to having one at home. My conclusion: for highly playable and musical pianos, go Pianoteq. For deeper and fuller sounding grands yet maybe not as playable, get these sampled ones.



There is no reason to disagree because I agree with you . I am not a fun of sample pianos because it is mostly unfinished products, but my favorite is not a sample but modeling Panoteq. This is the only full functional digital live piano. I love it. I compare Keyscape Yamaha to Bechstain digital, at the moment Keyscape is a better product in all aspects. Sound, feel, playability. About Pearl concert grand I think it is good but need update 1.4 for some bugs. Its been talk about that earlier. I dont have Wavesfactory piano, I want and hope that is excellent.


----------



## Fleer (Dec 6, 2016)

The amazing thing about the Bechstein, apart from the Bechstein sound, is its tweakability. Think M/S, Strings-EQ and creative sound design. As such, the Bechstein Digital is not simply a perfect digital copy of their best grand. It's that and much more, only possible in software. And it's the closest to Pianoteq Pro note-per-note tweakability a sampled library ever got.


----------



## Fleer (Dec 6, 2016)

slobajudge said:


> I compare Keyscape Yamaha to Bechstain digital, at the moment Keyscape is a better product in all aspects. Sound, feel, playability. About Pearl concert grand I think it is good but need update 1.4 for some bugs.


Keycape and Pearl are indeed comparable as they are both derived from the same model, a Yamaha C7. Yet I believe the Pearl is more deeply sampled and fuller sounding with less problematic resonances. Then again, I got Keycape for the electric pianos, and those are up there with the best, like GospelMusicians Neo-Soul.


----------



## Fleer (Jan 29, 2017)

Keyboard Magazine 1/17 has a review of the Bechstein, giving it a Key Buy award: "I was also able to compare Digital Grand to a real Bechstein D282 and the smaller C234 model using a Kawai VPC-1 controller, and let’s just say it lacks nothing in terms of faithfulness to the Bechstein sound, dynamics, and response. It’s likely going to be my go-to for “in the box” music production for the foreseeable future, not to mention for pure playing enjoyment."


----------



## logburner (Jan 29, 2017)

slobajudge said:


> Sustain pedal causes CPU problems.



While Bechstein Digital Grand is the best software piano to day IMO, the above is true. I don't understand why this piano takes soooo much strain off CP because I thought sample streaming relies on RAM and HD(SSD) specification. Is it doing some sort of algorithmic processing for pedal down resonance??


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jan 29, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Keyboard Magazine 1/17 has a review of the Bechstein, giving it a Key Buy award: "I was also able to compare Digital Grand to a real Bechstein D282 and the smaller C234 model using a Kawai VPC-1 controller, and let’s just say it lacks nothing in terms of faithfulness to the Bechstein sound, dynamics, and response. It’s likely going to be my go-to for “in the box” music production for the foreseeable future, not to mention for pure playing enjoyment."


Hi Fleer just wondering Bechstein Digital vs VI Labs? Any comparison or is that crazy talk? The current sale price has caught my eye. 

I'm also after Keyscape but like you that's for the electrics.


----------



## chasmanian (Jan 30, 2017)

also wonder about the Bechstein Digital and the VI Labs deal.
really just wanted to chime in to mention that I played Keyscape for a bit last night. what a treasure chest of joy.
maddeningly resource hungry. for my amateur needs, doesn't matter all that much. 
love alot of the presets for individual and duo instruments.
really loved the LA Custom C7 Studio preset last night too.


----------



## Fleer (Jan 30, 2017)

Well, that VI Labs deal is high value indeed, all three grands are wonderfully playable, with Una Corda throughout, and the American (Steinway) is one of the best. Italian (Fazioli) and German (Bechstein) are exquisite as well, but if you're looking at the Bechstein Digital Grand, as it's made by Bechstein themselves, the level of sonic accuracy is impeccable and you'll get incredible sound editing capabilities as well. You may want to get them all


----------



## chasmanian (Jan 30, 2017)

hmmmm.
this is troubling. only because I'm going broke. lol
I super love Keyscape, The Hammersmith and Garritan CFX.
seriously I thank you for your comment.
I am thinking about getting the VI Labs. a little voice inside my head though is saying, hey I have Ravenscroft, and I never play it. so, I'm really still kind of on the fence.
the Bechstein Digital Grand, I would probably wait to see if there's ever a sale.
if you have any more thoughts, about why I should get the VI Labs deal, with all that I said, in mind, I am truly all ears.
thank you,
Chas


----------



## Fleer (Jan 30, 2017)

Though I do not have the Ravenscroft, I did read in this forum that several members actually prefer the American (Steinway D) part of the VI Labs TrueKeys bundle on sale.


----------



## chasmanian (Jan 30, 2017)

awesome. thank you very much.
if I'm completely honest, I will tell you that I really want to like my Ivory II American Concert D.
but I don't like it.
the Steinway D in Hammersmith, I absolutely love.
can you tell me anything at all about the other 2 pianos in the VI Labs True Pianos, the Fazioli, and the Bechstein?
and please tell me if doing wrong and hijacking the thread. I sooooo don't want to make any trouble.


----------



## Kaan Guner (Jan 30, 2017)

All I remember about this piano is it's gorgeous sound and the fact that it becomes unplayable when you press pedal.


----------



## chasmanian (Jan 30, 2017)

Kaan Guner said:


> All I remember about this piano is it's gorgeous sound and the fact that it becomes unplayable when you press pedal.



thank you very much. I use the sustain pedal a super lot. so, really appreciate your comment.


----------



## Fleer (Jan 30, 2017)

Also read that the pedal uses more CPU. No problem here, though. MacBook Pro i7 2.6 GHz from 2012 with 16 GB ram and ssd.


----------



## chasmanian (Jan 30, 2017)

roger that.
thank you.
thats good about the MBP.
I've only ever used PC's.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jan 30, 2017)

chasmanian said:


> hmmmm.
> this is troubling. only because I'm going broke. lol
> I super love Keyscape, The Hammersmith and Garritan CFX.
> seriously I thank you for your comment.
> ...


Can I ask you why you don't use your Ravenscroft? I had it down on my list then read a few things on here and heard a few demos that I wasn't impressed by and went off the idea. I'd be interested to hear what your reasons are. I've read elsewhere that some folk prefer the Ravenscroft to the VI Labs True Keys libraries. That's got me doubting everything.


----------



## chasmanian (Jan 30, 2017)

sure.
please understand that I really want to like it.
if I am honest, I will tell you that I am underwhelmed by it.
I always end up going back to CFX, Hammersmith and Keyscape.
its soooooo subjective and personal, individual, this whole thing.
and it depends on how you are using it.
so, just because I am not crazy about it, means nothing.
other people love it.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jan 30, 2017)

chasmanian said:


> sure.
> please understand that I really want to like it.
> if I am honest, I will tell you that I am underwhelmed by it.
> I always end up going back to CFX, Hammersmith and Keyscape.
> ...


Completely understand. You're quite right it is veeeeery subjective.


----------



## robgb (Jan 30, 2017)

Too pricey for me. I'd rather spend the money on Pianoteq.


----------



## chasmanian (Jan 30, 2017)

gotcha.
that said, CFX and Hammersmith were not expensive.
Keyscape was. but you know, for me, they are soooo worth it.
I got Pianoteq too. I like it.


----------



## lp59burst (Jan 30, 2017)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Hi Fleer just wondering Bechstein Digital vs VI Labs? Any comparison or is that crazy talk? The current sale price has caught my eye.
> 
> I'm also after Keyscape but like you that's for the electrics.


Where is it on sale at?


----------



## davidgary73 (Jan 30, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> Where is it on sale at?



Here you go @ https://audioplugin.deals


----------



## chasmanian (Jan 30, 2017)

https://audioplugin.deals/?gclid=COq_26zW49ECFQ-dfgod4QoMXg


----------



## lp59burst (Jan 30, 2017)

davidgary73 said:


> Here you go @ https://audioplugin.deals


Wow... they *are* on sale... thanks for the link...


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jan 30, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> Where is it on sale at?


Sorry LP, the VI Labs True Keys libraries are on sale (which includes a Bechstein) but the actual Bechstein is not on sale. Apologies for any confusion.


----------



## Fleer (Jan 31, 2017)

IMNSHO, the Bechstein Digital is the best sampled grand available, partly because of its immaculate sound, partly because of its sound editing capabilities.
http://www.keyboardmag.com/gear/1183/review-c-bechstein-digital-grand/61433


----------



## chasmanian (Jan 31, 2017)

wow, I wonder if I would like it as much as I like CFX and Hammersmith.


----------



## jmvideo (Jan 31, 2017)

Kaan Guner said:


> All I remember about this piano is it's gorgeous sound and the fact that it becomes unplayable when you press pedal.



Why is that... because pedal uses too much CPU or because of a flaw in the programing?


----------



## logburner (Jan 31, 2017)

jmvideo said:


> Why is that... because pedal uses too much CPU or because of a flaw in the programing?



The piano itself is CPU hungry to start with. It takes 3 voices per note, 2 voices at key release and a couple more for noise samples. Plus it seems that pedal-down resonance takes 2 more voices per note, and it frequently causes dropouts at pedal release. So I turned the pedal volume off and it works without dropouts at low latency, though I do miss the pedal-down reasonace.

Sorry, just check the voice count again and edited my post.


----------



## John57 (Feb 3, 2017)

On hammersmith it is easy to use 14 voices just pressing a key and release.


----------



## John57 (Feb 3, 2017)

Watching the 24min Video walk-though the CPU usage gets ups to 72% and you can hear the sound break up. This just only with one plug-in?


----------



## logburner (Feb 3, 2017)

John57 said:


> On hammersmith it is easy to use 14 voices just pressing a key and release.



How much does Hammersmith push the CPU meter on your system at low latency?

I'm not sure if 72% CPU usage is caused soley by one instance of Bechstein Grand, but this piano requires so much CPU power especially at low latency. Sometimes I find it weird as the dropouts happen at pedal release, even when all additional features (String-EQ, Aura, pedal, release samples and noises) are disabled.

It says "the original file size was about 80 GB", but there are some piano libraries which are bigger than 80GB. I really wonder what exactly is taxing CPU usage in Bechstein Grand.


----------



## John57 (Feb 3, 2017)

Just watch the official walk-through video. The OP system just has a hard time to catch up with changes. He even had to shut down a few instances. 
My Hammersmith is very good at CPU just 4% playing as many keys I can on a I7 4790 and not even 1% most of the time. However it is somewhat RAM intensive 1.15GB with two mics and does not seems to stream on my SSD like my EastWest libraries. I do not think that you would have a issue with CPU on the Hammersmith. 
Right now I am also looking at Imperfect Samples.


----------



## John57 (Feb 4, 2017)

From Bechstein support:
_yes, the Digital Grand CAN be very CPU intensive – but there are many many ways to prevent this. In the video, e.g. the featured Snapshot "Enjoy Digital Grand" uses every feature that is possible, incl. our innovative STRING-EQ, Sympathetic String Resonances, etc. without limiting the max. number of voices. 
_
Getting just a bit over 10ms latency latency using using Hammersmith which I think is quite good.


----------



## lp59burst (Feb 4, 2017)

I may have found something based on the above ^^^ ...on the String-EQ tab if you clear all of the String-EQ's and don't use them I can keep the sustain pedal on indefinitely and the CPU doesn't go over 75%. I didn't really notice any difference in sound while doing this. That being said I don't have bat ears so maybe you will... 

I have an iMac 5K, 27-inch, (Mid 2015) 3.3 GHz Intel Core i5 with 32Gb of RAM.

May be worth a try...


----------



## John57 (Feb 4, 2017)

The issue is that some of my libraries like my EastWest will not work very well with CPU already that high. This many limit the number of tracks or VST's that I can use at one time in a DAW.


----------



## Fleer (Feb 4, 2017)

For me this amazing Bechstein Digital Grand is a solo instrument. I use ImpactSoundworks Pearl, Wavesfactory Mercury or VI Labs TrueKeys in a mix.


----------



## John57 (Feb 4, 2017)

I think you are right use the Bechstein Digital Grand as a solo instrument rendering it for use in a DAW mix.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Feb 5, 2017)

Thank you all for the heads up(s) and tips. I'm still undecided (not doubting the quality btw) but I now feel I better understand what I'd be letting myself in for.


----------



## OleJoergensen (Feb 5, 2017)

Anyone who could share some of there own compositions or arrangement record with this new bechstein?


----------



## creativeforge (Apr 13, 2017)

OleJoergensen said:


> Anyone who could share some of there own compositions or arrangement record with this new bechstein?



This? 




More here: https://www.bechstein-digital.com/


----------



## Fleer (Apr 13, 2017)

Wonderful. This definitely is one of the very best sampled grands. Like carrying a real Bechstein in your laptop. But I also love its sound design capabilities, which makes this library a real as well as surreal hybrid.


----------



## OleJoergensen (Apr 13, 2017)

creativeforge said:


> This?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But it is the demoes from Bechstein's homepage, I already listen to those many times.


----------



## Phryq (May 20, 2017)

Fleer said:


> For me this amazing Bechstein Digital Grand is a solo instrument. I use ImpactSoundworks Pearl, Wavesfactory Mercury or VI Labs TrueKeys in a mix.



So you're saying Bechstein sounds better solo, and Mercury sounds better in a mix? Why is this? Can you compare the merits of each?


----------



## Fleer (May 20, 2017)

Phryq said:


> So you're saying Bechstein sounds better solo, and Mercury sounds better in a mix? Why is this? Can you compare the merits of each?


To me they are essentially quite different, as different as a Bechstein differs from a Fazioli, but they each also have particular merits apart from their sound. Mercury includes remarkable reverb impulses from the London room it sits in, and the Bechstein adds exquisite sound shaping capabilities. In all, the latter is the best sampled grand for me, allowing for very detailed solo playing, while the former dons its special poppy, yes "Freddie Mercury" character.


----------



## Phryq (May 21, 2017)

Fleer said:


> To me they are essentially quite different, as different as a Bechstein differs from a Fazioli, but they each also have particular merits apart from their sound. Mercury includes remarkable reverb impulses from the London room it sits in, and the Bechstein adds exquisite sound shaping capabilities. In all, the latter is the best sampled grand for me, allowing for very detailed solo playing, while the former dons its special poppy, yes "Freddie Mercury" character.



Ok, thanks. Do you mean a reverb IR, or do you mean the actual sound of the room mics?

Listening to demos, I really like the sound of Mercury better, however I prefer close-mic'd and sculpt-able libraries, and almost never use room-mic samples. Everything I read about the Bechstein, I like it better, (though Mercury's velocity layer sound morphing is cool).

It would be nice to compare e.g. a classical solo piano piece of both the Mercury and Bechstein; especially e.g. both using dry mics in a Teldex hall (or any other verb), and also both using room mics.

I'm also wondering how realistic the pedalling is for each.

And something else - Kontakt has a feature (dynamic pure tuning) which I love, but doesn't work in libraries with heavy scripting. I know Mercury has it's own tuning GUI, but I wonder if either piano is compatible with Kontakt's dynamic tuning feature (click the wrench, go to effects, and there's a page with tuning options).
I'm also into classical, not pop, and the demos of the Bechstein I'm guessing reflect the mixer's personal choices.


----------



## Fleer (May 21, 2017)

Mercury has those sweet EMT140 impulse responses. Here's a very good review by SoundBytesMag (which I find the most informative apart from SoundOnSound): http://soundbytesmag.net/mercuryfromwavesfactory/
Mercury's great for pop, for classical I would go Bechstein.


----------

