# Anyone using Bidule?



## JT3_Jon (Nov 17, 2013)

Im curious how well Bidule integrates with DAWS. I see they have a VST/AU plugin for Bidule, but they dont let you demo it unfortunately, so I have no clue how this would work! Is it something like DDFM metaplugin where it actually acts like a plugin? http://www.ddmf.eu/product.php?id=3 Or is it still relying on rewire / soundflower? 

Basically I'm looking for thee things. 
1. Ability to use AU's in Cubase
2. Ability to create complex effects routings and save them as presets to be recalled in projects. For example, split frequency processing which would normally take setting up with multiple busses, solo specific bands in each bus, etc in a DAW, I would like to just have ready to go in a plugin preset that I can recall on a single channel strip. 

(on a side note: VE pro comes SO CLOSE to this with their ability to run as an "audio insert," but I HATE the fact the audio does not come back in the channel strip where the signal left, and instead must come back through a separate bus!) 

Another plugin I'm checking out in a similar vein is Blue Cat's new Patchwork, but its VST only and does not have dry/wet controls per plugin like Metaplugin: http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_PatchWork/

But when I see both of these plugins costing $50-$60, I wonder if I can get the same functionality and more in Bidule, which isn't that much more money. 

Can bidule do what Metaplugin and/or Patchwork do and more? Anyone using Bidule care to share your experiences and how you use it?


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## chimuelo (Nov 17, 2013)

Bidule has a learning curve much like Modular synthesis.
It's best advantages are hosting with literally no noticable hits on resources all while using CPU and RAM.
As a VST Plug In it loads incredibly faster than any Host/SubHost I have tried.
What I have actually enjoyed is creating everything for MIDI in a DAW, then using Bidules MIDI File Player as a Host plus playback device, all while automating tracks pre recorded while performing "live" overdubs using the same plug in.
Stability is the finest of any plug in I have too.
If you encounter any trouble using a VST with Bidule, David or Seb will respond almost immediately ask for a log file and have a fix.
Doesn't happen very often and usually stems from a lack of understanding the app.

I use a dual install of Reaper where one is a portable install. This is my of using a single machine and having a VE Pro type of Master/Slave relationship where projects loads via MIDI Prgm Chng commands, leaving the Template in place, and can even just load extra instruments to any already loaded template w/o an entire reload.

It's just a really well developed piece of software that has huge benefits for routing, and a non wasteful approach to using resources, no redundant operations what so ever.
I also use Scope DSP platform which is designed the same way with external hardware capabilities in realtime, so these 2 apps are like Peas in a Pod for me.

My favorite thing is the way I can have a Master/Slave set up complete with internal and external routings all on a single machine and bypass USB MIDI as I have Zero tolerance for stuck notes.
In other words, I can stay with PCI-e MIDI and it's advantages, using small dedicated devices and sync'r's from MIDI Solutions and Innerclock.

Haven't attempted AU devices yet, but I really would love to use some of Logics plugs and Merging Technologies incredible devices that require conversions or adapters.

If you ask Seb or David they might allow you a chance to demo Bidule outside of the usual Standalone demo.
Doesn't hurt to try.

FWIW I hosted with it for years now, usually 6 nights a week and never once got a freeze or a lock up. 100% stability since 2006.

I fyou use LASS you should see the way that the devloper sthere use it with multiple instances of Kontakt.
As they say it's lean and mean.


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## JT3_Jon (Nov 21, 2013)

Thank you for sharing your experiences! Very much appreciated! I emailed the guys at bidule last week asking if I could demo the plugin version and unfortunately never got a reply. :( 

Can you do me a favor and check out the metaplugin (link below) and tell me if using Bidule as a plugin in a DAW functions in the same basic way? http://www.ddmf.eu/product.php?id=3

Anyone else still using Bidule? I know it was popular before programs were 64-bit as an alternative to VE-pro, though I do nothing Bidule has the same type of audio/midi over ethernet, correct?


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## Darthmorphling (Nov 21, 2013)

chimuelo @ Sun Nov 17 said:


> I use a dual install of Reaper where one is a portable install. This is my of using a single machine and having a VE Pro type of Master/Slave relationship where projects loads via MIDI Prgm Chng commands, leaving the Template in place, and can even just load extra instruments to any already loaded template w/o an entire reload.



This is using bidule as the middleman? I have tried two instances of Reaper and was unsuccessful using one as the template.

My goal would be to have one instance of Reaper always open with my template, much like VEPRO. If you need bidule as the middle man, then wouldn't it act like the same thing without needing the second instance of Reaper? It would be great if I could do this with just Reaper.


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## TGV (Nov 21, 2013)

I'm using Bidule as an external host, and it works well, but that's on OSX. I've got a bunch of "virtual" MIDI cables, and send the output back to Logic via Jack (an open source audio router). Bidule hosts Play, Logic Kontakt.

I never use it in Logic as a meta-plugin, but it does allow me to load (OSX) VST plugins and AU plugins, but only 64 bit ones (since Logic is 64 bit, and I don't have a 32-bit bridge).


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## chimuelo (Nov 21, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Thu Nov 21 said:


> chimuelo @ Sun Nov 17 said:
> 
> 
> > I use a dual install of Reaper where one is a portable install. This is my of using a single machine and having a VE Pro type of Master/Slave relationship where projects loads via MIDI Prgm Chng commands, leaving the Template in place, and can even just load extra instruments to any already loaded template w/o an entire reload.
> ...



You can do this on a single machine. Slave/Master using a regular Install then a Portable install. Use whatever MIDI loopback thingy you want.

You can search the Cockos forum as there are several ways to get the same VE Pro thing happening, using very little resources and great stability.

Since I use a realtime DSP Platform for live work the way I set things up makes my DAW a secondary device.
It uses no FX, just sampled and physmodded VSTi's and special scripts.
All number crunching is done in DSP, mixing, effects Modular synth instruments I make, MIDI devices, etc.

I have 100% stability as I spread the chores over hardware, Native and DSP.
DSP being the most important as they are dedicated audio chips, free from the waste of cycles a one size fits all OS uses.

But dual instances of Reaper has so many various ways to use, check the Forum, guys there will show you how an all ITB set up works.

But Bidule is just Lean and Mean...


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## Darthmorphling (Nov 21, 2013)

I'll look into it when I get home tonight. Our district's filter does not like cockos it seems.

I did ask about it a few months ago there and got no responses, but will try and refine the search a bit.

thanks,

Don


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## synthetic (Nov 21, 2013)

Yes, the plug-in allows you to use AU plug-ins inside Cubase and save complex effects chains. You can also use stand-alone Bidule through ReWire.


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## chimuelo (Nov 21, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Thu Nov 21 said:


> I'll look into it when I get home tonight. Our district's filter does not like cockos it seems.
> Don



I have to admit Cockos sounds like some pornographic cereal.
Google Reaper Forum, this might avoid some feared vision of different colored miniature Penises floating around in a bowl of milk.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 21, 2013)

Bidule has a learning curve if you want to do super-freaky stuff, but just using it as a host is pretty simple.

It's been a while since I opened Giga on one of my Windows machines, but if I remember right I ReWired Giga into Bidule VST hosted inside VE Pro and streamed it into my Mac.

It worked really well, convoluted as that sounds.

...at least I think that's what I did. It was something like that if not.


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## JT3_Jon (Nov 21, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Nov 21 said:


> Bidule has a learning curve if you want to do super-freaky stuff, but just using it as a host is pretty simple.
> 
> It's been a while since I opened Giga on one of my Windows machines, but if I remember right I ReWired Giga into Bidule VST hosted inside VE Pro and streamed it into my Mac.
> 
> ...



Very interesting! This is the kind of thing I'm looking into. What I'm looking to do is actually use DP's external midi functionality tied into VE pro hosting samples on a slave machine, and was try to figure out how to connect them. Like you its very hard to explain, but I think it might be possible with Bidule. Plus I was looking at the Blue Cat Patchwork to create some complex plugin routings that could then be saved as presets in my DAW. I wonder if Bidule as a plugin can offer me all the same functionality? http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_PatchWork/ If so, given the price difference between the two, it might be worth it to jump straight into bidule. Boy do I wish they let you demo the AU/VST plugin version! In that version, can you save routings as plugin presets?

edit: sorry I glanced over your reply synthetic - so you're saying its possible. Way cool! Maybe I'll just take the plunge. Any advice / online resources / tutorials to getting started quickly with bidule? I must admit I just downloaded and installed the standalone demo and it looks pretty daunting!


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## synthetic (Nov 22, 2013)

JT3_Jon @ Thu Nov 21 said:


> Any advice / online resources / tutorials to getting started quickly with bidule? I must admit I just downloaded and installed the standalone demo and it looks pretty daunting!



The manual?


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## TGV (Nov 22, 2013)

I think they have some video tutorials up. Lemme check the almighty YouTrash... yup. Just type "plogue bidule" in the search box and you're set.


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## reddognoyz (Nov 22, 2013)

you might also look at VEP5 if you're just lookinf gor a host, which has some advantages in terms of project management, it's very easy to save all you tweaks and adjustment across all you instruments with one save. 

As Nick said, you can do some super-freaky stuff with Bidule, it's a different animal.


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## FriFlo (Nov 24, 2013)

What I am still looking for, is a way to load e.g. a Kontakt Multi in remotely via midi or OSC messages. This way I could reconfigure different bits of a huge template, which never could be loaded all at once and simply select it from a controller like touch OSC or Lemur. The benefit would be obvious IMO!
Is something like that possible with either Reaper or Bidule? I am using a lot of Max MSp, which is great in terms of flexibility, but is not very stable or advanced as a VST host. At the time I looked into Bidule it seemed to me that in spite of the modular architecture it is not capable to do things like that. I hope to be wrong though! And I have never looked into reaper as a possible host! It would however be an incredible amount of work just to learn that program for this purpose. I have seen promising features like reascript. is anyone doing sophisticated stuff like this with reaper?


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## itskylerobertson (Nov 24, 2013)

I used to use it heavily before vep5. I used midi over lan to send midi to slave computers, then audio interfaces to send the audio back. The only problem I experienced was using it as a host on my main writing computer alongside logic. Rewire would only use one core, so I used either soundflower or jack audio to take advantage of a dual core processor. Both are freeware programs that route audio within one computer. Soundflower would cause these really quiet pops that almost sounded like bad loop points in an instrument, and jack audio would cause glitches and dropouts long before I'd get them by hosting in logic or using soundflower with bidule.

This was a few years ago, and these issues may be fixed now, so try out the demo and see.

Best,

Kyle


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## itskylerobertson (Nov 24, 2013)

I'm not sure about loading from a midi or osc message. But when I'm writing from cubase on my laptop, I make heavy use of the "freeze and unload samples" option, then unfreeze a previously frozen session to work with. It allows me to load large templates on a less powerful system. Maybe your DAW has something similar?

Kyle


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## FriFlo (Nov 24, 2013)

I know freeze. But I am looking for a host on my main daw and the slaves that can load a Kontakt multi or preset files of other plugins remotely. 
This way I could preconfigure all my libraries and load them as needed without even having to go to the host program.


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