# Vegetarian why not a thread ???



## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

Hi,
Some of us are Veg, so, if Mr Greene is ok, why not a special forum, I'm veg for ethical reasons, I have absolutely nothing against "non vegetarian", I'm tolerant and looking for peace, it's one's choice, most of my friends are not veg. 
This forum could be a bag of tricks and advices etc... We could exchange ideas, restaurants, adresses, recipes...


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## N.Caffrey (Mar 22, 2018)

Been vegetarian for over 5 years (for ethical reasons as well), and haven't missed meat a single day honestly. There's actually so much tasty veggie around  I live in London so I could recommend many places there if someone's interested. I agree with other people saying it should be off-topic as it's not music related.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 22, 2018)

fiestared said:


> Hi,
> Some of us are Veg, so, if Mr Greene is ok, why not a special forum, I'm veg for ethical reasons, I have absolutely nothing against "non vegetarian", I'm tolerant and looking for peace, it's one's choice, most of my friends are not veg.
> This forum could be a bag of tricks and advices etc... We could exchange ideas, restaurants, adresses, recipes...



I actually appreciate vegetarian foods and meals, but alas..why a subforum for that? I actually find that nonsense political subforum already a pain in the butt. This is a music forum or actually more a sample talk forum. If you want to talk about that why not attending specific other forums? Same belongs for me to that political subforum bullshit.


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## ok_tan (Mar 22, 2018)

oeuf poché sur son lit de légato?


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## gregh (Mar 22, 2018)

not rlevant enough for a sub forum but certainly a sticky topic in off-topic


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## OleJoergensen (Mar 22, 2018)

What about “how does it affect your music to eat non- meat food?” Sub forum 

This summer I celebrate 30 years annniversary as a non-meat eater, so I can’t tell the difference . (I eat a lot of cakes...uhmm).


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## kgdrum (Mar 22, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I actually appreciate vegetarian foods and meals, but alas..why a subforum for that? I actually find that nonsense political subforum already a pain in the butt. This is a music forum or actually more a sample talk forum. If you want to talk about that why not attending specific other forums? Same belongs for me to that political subforum bullshit.


 
I couldn’t agree more,this is a music,sample,VI forum.
I’ve been a vegetarian later becoming a pescatarian for 45 + years but that for me has absolutely no relevance to VI-control.
I come here for music related posts certainly not for political or vegetarian threads.


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## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I actually appreciate vegetarian foods and meals, but alas..why a subforum for that? I actually find that nonsense political subforum already a pain in the butt. This is a music forum or actually more a sample talk forum. If you want to talk about that why not attending specific other forums? Same belongs for me to that political subforum bullshit.


Was only an idea, maybe in a spontaneous reaction I proposed it, what is important for me is the "harmony" so if you all think it's more in the less side than in the more side, let's forget it, no problemo. And what about a good tea or a good beer now ?


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## rottoy (Mar 22, 2018)

I think it's a great idea. Would love to hear @Rctec 's best recipe for "Toasted Braahms" or the famous "Viennese Sample Baklava".


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 22, 2018)

kgdrum said:


> I couldn’t agree more,this is a music,sample,VI forum.
> I’ve been a vegetarian later becoming a pescatarian for 45 + years but that for me has absolutely no relevance to VI-control.
> I come here for music related posts certainly not for political or vegetarian threads.



You know there is another thing why I don´t like that, and that is because people can´t have a talk without easily getting offended and then they pick up a fight ecspecially in this political subforum, and that leads just to unnessecary heat which I think isn´t a good intention can´t be the direction that the admins eager for. That is also the reason why I stay away from those talks there.


fiestared said:


> Was only an idea, maybe in a spontaneous reaction I proposed it, what is important for me is the "harmony" so if you all think it's more in the less side than in the more side, let's forget it, no problemo. And what about a good tea or a good beer now ?



It is all good :D Oh I had beer 2 days ago..enough, today I actually had green tea. 
Anyways what I wanted say: Why not just using a thread in the off topic subforum for this here.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 22, 2018)

I’ll just drop this here:
http://www.vegetableorchestra.org/instruments.php


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## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> I’ll just drop this here:
> http://www.vegetableorchestra.org/instruments.php


Great, thanks for sharing


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## Oliver (Mar 22, 2018)

why not a meat subforum???


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## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

Oliver said:


> why not a meat subforum???



You're right, it was a bad idea of mine...


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## synthpunk (Mar 22, 2018)

Nothing like a good burger 

Not sure which I hate more pushy religious people or pushy vegetarians.



Oliver said:


> why not a meat subforum???


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## Symfoniq (Mar 22, 2018)

synthpunk said:


> Nothing like a good burger
> 
> Not sure which I hate more pushy religious people or pushy vegetarians.



But you repeat yourself...


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 22, 2018)

Man, and now I want a subforum for beer drinking, wrestletalk and porn. Please Mike Greene..


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2018)

chillbot chill subforum pls.


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## Oliver (Mar 22, 2018)




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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 22, 2018)

Oliver said:


>



And lemme tell you that you can have your own "coffeecup Forum" where you can deliberately teach people how to hold a cup of coffee in a proper professional and profound way.


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## michdb (Mar 22, 2018)

I m vegan for 2 years already, for reasons like this

I don't miss the meat and dairy products we already have very similar taste substitutions


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 22, 2018)

michdb said:


> I m vegan for 2 years already, for reasons like this
> 
> I don't miss the meat and dairy products we already have very similar taste substitutions




It is a terrible video. And pigs are so intelligent and sensitive beeings. The human race is a virus on this mother earth planet which makes me often sick to my stomach. I am curious sometimes what the allmighty entity thought by this creation called "human". I can only assume that this was not intended. But I tell you that there will be a reckoning payday for most of us. Satan is not in hell, Satan I feel is a reflection of our degenerated society which shows present almost every day.


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## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

michdb said:


> I m vegan for 2 years already, for reasons like this
> 
> I don't miss the meat and dairy products we already have very similar taste substitutions



I must admit I can't watch "images" like that, but it's the reason why I'm vegetarian, probably I must be seen by some like a ridiculous over sensible guy, but I'm like I am...


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## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> It is a terrible video. And pigs are so intelligent and sensitive beeings. The human race is a virus on this mother earth planet which makes me often sick to my stomach. I am curious sometimes what the allmighty entity thought by this creation called "human". I can only assume that this was not intended. But I tell you that there will a reckoning payday for most of us. Satan is not in hell, Satan I feel is a reflection of our degenerated society which shows present almost every day.


Thanks you Alexander for telling so well what I think too...


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 22, 2018)

Isn't this why there is an off-topics forum section?


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## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

Guy Bacos said:


> Isn't this why there is an off-topics forum section?



Aren't we on the off-topics forum ?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 22, 2018)

fiestared said:


> Aren't we on the off-topics forum ?



Yes, but the OP wanted to ask for a specific subforum for such topic, so I guess that is why Guy said that  right?


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 22, 2018)

fiestared said:


> Aren't we on the off-topics forum ?



How about you talk about it on a dedicated thread, and if there is enough interest and you reach over 100 pages, perhaps the forum will think it's not a bad idea to have a sub-section for the veggies?

I'm not a veggie, but I applaud you for it.


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## Divico (Mar 22, 2018)

I´m a vegan. Music took quite a big part in making my decision in the beginning. I was listening to a lot of Rise Against then.


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 22, 2018)

Vegetarians should be used as human shields in a food fight.


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## jon wayne (Mar 22, 2018)

I am a little person and have problems reaching pedals and moving faders. I think all of us little people need to start a forum to discuss better ways to compose and increase workflow!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 22, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> Vegetarians should be used as human shields in a food fight.


Vodka??


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 22, 2018)

These fights can get pretty bloody...


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 22, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> These fights can get pretty bloody...





What the???


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## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

jon wayne said:


> I am a little person and have problems reaching pedals and moving faders. I think all of us little people need to start a forum to discuss better ways to compose and increase workflow!


You should ask to Randy Newman


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## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> These fights can get pretty bloody...



I love tomatoes, especially with pastas...


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 22, 2018)

Ok - how about a forum for football fans?
Christians?
Atheists?
Gamers?
Porn Collectors?
ahem... 

Well, there actually is a forum for all that I'd say: https://vi-control.net/community/forums/off-topics-general-musings.21/


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## Dr Belasco (Mar 22, 2018)

I'm kind of interested in a spread bet on how many football fan deaths there'll be in Russua this summer. Not so much in the football though.


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## Quasar (Mar 22, 2018)

N.Caffrey said:


> Been vegetarian for over 5 years (for ethical reasons as well), and haven't missed meat a single day honestly. There's actually so much tasty veggie around  I live in London so I could recommend many places there if someone's interested. I agree with other people saying it should be off-topic as it's not music related.


I also haven't eaten meat in many years, and literally cannot imagine doing so. But agree that general off-topic musings (or politics) should be more than enough. There are already numerous web forums, social media groups etc. for that sort of stuff for anyone so inclined.


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2018)

Can we have a subforum specifically for subforum requests though? Because I have a lot of things I would post there.


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## PaulBrimstone (Mar 22, 2018)

chillbot said:


> chillbot chill subforum pls.


No, a CHILLI subforum, please. Vegetarian version, of course 


Quasar said:


> I also haven't eaten meat in many years, and literally cannot imagine doing so. But agree that general off-topic musings (or politics) should be more than enough. There are already numerous web forums, social media groups etc. for that sort of stuff for anyone so inclined.


Likewise: and I agree with both that this should be off-topic. I might be a vegetarian, but I'm here for the music, not to be lectured about vitamin deficiencies.


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## Jaap (Mar 22, 2018)

18 year veggie here (dont hate me @synthpunk  ) and hobby cook and always fond on exchanging food ideas (mjum!!), but a dedicated topic should do fine for me.


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## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

Jaap said:


> 18 year veggie here (dont hate me @synthpunk  ) and hobby cook and always fond on exchanging food ideas (mjum!!), but a dedicated topic should do fine for me.


18 year ! Great !


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## chillbot (Mar 22, 2018)

fiestared said:


> 18 year ! Great !


You could change the name of the thread to "Vegetarian why not a thread ???" and then all you veggies could just jibber jabber here amongst yourselves.


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## fiestared (Mar 22, 2018)

chillbot said:


> You could change the name of the thread to "Vegetarian why not a thread ???" and then all you veggies could just jibber jabber here amongst yourselves.


Good idea I'll do that.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 22, 2018)

...and then there was peace in the meatless though well fertilized valley.


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 22, 2018)

fiestared said:


> 18 year ! Great !


Twice the age of Aisha when the Prophet made her a Woman...


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## ghobii (Mar 23, 2018)

Jaap said:


> 18 year veggie here (dont hate me @synthpunk  ) and hobby cook and always fond on exchanging food ideas (mjum!!), but a dedicated topic should do fine for me.


Awesome, 25 years for me.


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## fiestared (Mar 23, 2018)

ghobii said:


> Awesome, 25 years for me.


Congrats ! you've got big ears, perfect for the Music


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## Vik (Mar 24, 2018)

I agree that there's no need for a veggie subforum.
I first thought that it could be interesting in a forum with both vegetarians, meat eaters and vegans to have a thread about why people have skipped meat (and other animal products) - but of course, one doesn't have to have a reason for things one does *not* do - that could easily be tiresome.


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## Mattzart (Mar 26, 2018)

Been vegetarian since I was 15 years old for ethical reasons. Recently switched to being a vegan because I developed a lactose intolerance, I really miss Greek yogurt with frozen fruit from Costco, but eh, what can I do. Unless if there's a lactose free yogurt brand out there??

I used to get a little flack at the gym a few years ago when they'd find out I was veg. I'd hear that I'd never get anywhere without eating meat, but at 150lbs I was deadlifting 2.5x my bodyweight with a diet of just kidney beans and plant based protein. I'd still be going strong if it wasn't for a job related injury that has sidelined for a year now.


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## jmauz (Mar 26, 2018)

mmmm...pork.


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## gsilbers (Mar 26, 2018)

lol. funny thread. im vegetarian and usually keep it to myself. there never has been an issue at any resataurant or friends bbq or dinner event. there is always an option for vegetarians. i think its cuz of the price of meat there is always those "fillers" aka veggies and non meat products like potatoes. just think of that homer simpsons joke at the buffet saying to bart to skip the fillers and pushing the veggie chefs out of the way and running for the shrimp. 

but once i SAY i am vegetarian... now everyting turns around. everyone is asking stupid questions, overcaring there might be an issue with me not having enough food etc. and it turns into a whole big issue. its almost like a sienfeld episode the one minor thing turninto a big issue.

i also dont care if poeple eat meat. even cats and dogs like china does. as long as its killed humanly.
i would prefer if peope didnt eat meat and we found a synthetic replacement-star trek style- but i also live and let live and dont preach about it. i also dont eat meat just because i feel better.
there is a pseudo science philosophy that mentions that each persons blood type is based on what the person's ancenstors ate and what their food preference helps their body. so i am type A which means agrarian and therefore more incline to be vegetarian. but deep down i am more scientific type of person and know thats mostly BS like other pseudo shiat like acupunture that doesnt really work but people REALLY belive it. . man, im insulting everyone now lol.

vegans on the other hand.. thats hardcore. i dont think poeple realize for example that cow byproduct is on EVERYTHING. from jello to chocolate chip cookies to beer to even non food items like car tires, alsphalt, dynamite and makup to name a few.

as for a thread.. dunno. dont see it relevant or think there is many things to talk about. unless its that vegetarian sample library nick posted.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 26, 2018)

Anecdotal evidence suggests to me that acupuncture does work, actually. I have less belief in chiropractery, but the way I see it, people in chronic pain should exhaust EVERY POSSIBLE avenue before opioids. I just read a list of the drugs that were in Tom Petty’s bloodstream during the autopsy of his “accidental” death-it was horrifying. Any option is better than terrible chronic pain, but man. Addiction is easy to come by, and it’s killing a lot of folks.

On the veggie side-I understand that overconcern might be annoying, but I’ve always tried to be aware and accommodate my veggie friends. Should I ignore their dietary preferences from here on?


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## wesbender (Mar 27, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> vegans on the other hand.. thats hardcore. i dont think poeple realize for example that cow byproduct is on EVERYTHING. from jello to chocolate chip cookies to beer to even non food items like car tires, alsphalt, dynamite and makup to name a few.



Animal products are certainly more rampant than they need to be, but it really isn't all that difficult to avoid them.

It's just a matter of spending a few extra minutes reading ingredient labels and doing some additional research.



NYC Composer said:


> Should I ignore their dietary preferences from here on?



Don't ignore them, but don't draw attention to them, I suppose. I think the risk for a potential issue arising is only when a 'big deal' is made of it.


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## Vik (Mar 27, 2018)

wesbender said:


> It's just a matter of spending a few extra minutes reading ingredient labels and...


Not even that. Things are labelled quite well now, and plant based food has slowly but consistently become more mainstream for a few decades. MacDonalds sell vegan burgers, Häagen-Dazs makes vegan ice cream and so on. If one wants to become a pioneer or feel special, one needs to go further then just eating vegan, like eg "raw food/organic/gluten free/fair trade vegan with no palm oil"? 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/henry-firth/how-were-taking-vegan-mai_b_18428378.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/katrin...urn-your-business-vegan-in-2018/#2d462aaa2144


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 27, 2018)

I have to avoid this thread, I was planning a BBQ today, now I'll probably feel guilty.


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## tack (Mar 27, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> Anecdotal evidence


This is not a thing.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Mar 27, 2018)

Guy Bacos said:


> I have to avoid this thread, I was planning a BBQ today, now I'll probably feel guilty.



Man, why..enjoy your bbq now..there is nothing wrong in feeling that bad. Maybe..well..get some tofu saussages and salad from the local farmer which let you tell: Well I support local indepdendant farmers and bio food. I actually see it like that: The problem is not that man eats meat. The problem is that how industries exploit our planet and makes things sick. Genetic manipulated corn all over the place in the states. Man..and there comes the thing: You can eat a cookie. Read the descriptions: Made with palmoil? read that:

http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/footprint/agriculture/about_palm_oil/environmental_impacts/

I could add that list to a mindblowing shit...which will not let me sleep for days.

Point is: try to do little things which can help better our enviroment. I mean every single one of us can do that. Thinking big is also to think of little improvements which doesn´t take a lot of effort imo. Do we need to have all fancy shit just to say: Hey thats cool. No ...fuck..stop that! I don´t mean you. It is just a thinking method in trying to reach a different thinking.


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 27, 2018)

I agree, so much can be said about this.

I would be willing to do the "Meat Free Monday" proposed by Paul McCartney.


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## Oliver (Mar 27, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> And lemme tell you that you can have your own "coffeecup Forum" where you can deliberately teach people how to hold a cup of coffee in a proper professional and profound way.



absolutely true... teaching that since ages, but nobody listening ....


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## Synetos (Mar 27, 2018)

ROFL! This thread made me recall this pic I saw like 15 years ago. I printed and put in on my office wall. My coworker was a Vegetarian...we had a good laugh. He is the same guy who told me I should buy a Prius when they first came out, instead of the Saturn I bought at the time. He was pushing the gas savings. The price difference was over $6k. I told him $6k buys a lot of gas.


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## wesbender (Mar 27, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Made with palmoil? read that:
> 
> http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/footprint/agriculture/about_palm_oil/environmental_impacts/
> 
> I could add that list to a mindblowing shit...which will not let me sleep for days.




If you're losing sleep over the environmental impact of palm oil, you'd best not look into the environmental impact of animal agriculture.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 27, 2018)

tack said:


> This is not a thing.


Anecdotal musings?


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## tack (Mar 27, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> Anecdotal musings?


The more glib term would be anecdata. 

Of course the problem with anecdotes is that you can use them to believe anything about anything, so they're not a reliable pathway to truth. At best they might hint at interesting things to examine in properly controlled conditions, and when you do that with acupuncture, well, it doesn't work out so well for acupuncture.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 27, 2018)

Jason, I’m going to push back in regards to this-the phrase “anecdotal evidence” may be somewhat contradictory on its face, but it’s also acceptable in common parlance. If you’re implying that it’s incorrect English, well, we’ll have to disagree. There’s a plethora of anecdotal evidence that says it’s okay. 

As to acupuncture, I’m afraid the jury’s still out on that as well. I’ve seen broad disagreement across a spectrum of scientists. Placebo/methodological/bias problems pervade most studies. For every study one can cite that says it’s nonsense, there’s another that finds credibility. If you have definitive, unquestionable evidence that it has no efficacy, I’m interested in seeing it.


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## Saxer (Mar 28, 2018)

I wanted to make a tofu joke here but that's absolutely tasteless.


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## Vik (Mar 28, 2018)

Guy Bacos said:


> I have to avoid this thread, I was planning a BBQ today, now I'll probably feel guilty.


Feeling guilty sounds like a total waste of energy to me.


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## Vik (Mar 28, 2018)

Saxer said:


> I wanted to make a tofu joke here but that's absolutely tasteless.


Got it.  

But tofu isn't supposed to taste much, as with many animal based meals, the taste in tofu meals comes from the plants; spices, chili, coriander, garlic, onion and so on.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 28, 2018)

Saxer said:


> I wanted to make a tofu joke here but that's absolutely tasteless.


Not if you bread it, deep fry it, cover it with chocolate then nibble the breading and chocolate ‘til you get down to the tofu, then throw it away.


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## tack (Mar 28, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> Jason, I’m going to push back in regards to this-the phrase “anecdotal evidence” may be somewhat contradictory on its face, but it’s also acceptable in common parlance. If you’re implying that it’s incorrect English, well, we’ll have to disagree. There’s a plethora of anecdotal evidence that says it’s okay.


Sure, I confess was overly terse in the interest of being pithy. I clarified in my followup post by saying it's not a reliable pathway to truth. That is, you can't say "thing X works because <anecdotes>" for any operationally useful meaning of the term "works" (and for a nontrivial X).




NYC Composer said:


> As to acupuncture, I’m afraid the jury’s still out on that as well. I’ve seen broad disagreement across a spectrum of scientists. Placebo/methodological/bias problems pervade most studies. For every study one can cite that says it’s nonsense, there’s another that finds credibility. If you have definitive, unquestionable evidence that it has no efficacy, I’m interested in seeing it.


I'll argue you're mischaracterizing the weight of the evidence here by implying it's more balanced than it actually is. I'll be first in line to agree acupuncture studies are wildly inconsistent and drastically varying quality. Acupuncture is by its nature extremely difficult to blind and harder still (maybe even impossible) to double-blind. But the details and quality of the studies matter, because the trend is such that the more tightly controlled a trial is, the lower the effect size and invariably for increasingly non-specific conditions (such as pain management). This is already a giant red flag. Even the less well controlled studies show dubious effect sizes that rarely scale above the implausibility of the claims of acupuncture. (Implausible in the sense that there is no science-based physiological mechanism for _how_ it is that inserting needles at meridian points is supposed to have a curative value.) A shocking number of actual trials (not epidemiological studies) don't even bother to blind anybody.

You have your last comment backwards: the burden of proof is on the ones making the claim that acupuncture works as an intervention for some particular condition, not on those saying the body of research, such as it is, fails to reject the null hypothesis.

So where does the conversation go beyond this? We can now start to link to individual studies, or published systematic reviews, or more accessible conversational articles/blogs from MDs/PhDs. You'll link to studies like this one and quote where they say "Among patients with migraine without aura, true acupuncture may be associated with long-term reduction in migraine recurrence compared with sham acupuncture or assigned to a waiting list" and then I'll follow up by saying that if you click past the paywall in that very same issue they also say "However, this study does not convincingly demonstrate acupuncture’s efficacy for migraine prevention." You'll cite this positive Cochrane review and I'll highlight the fact that it's hardly a glowing endorsement of acupuncture with a dubious effect size that can't even differentiate between real and sham acupuncture, and has a further problem that the meta-analysis included electroacupuncture into the mix so now we're comparing different things. We'll parry like this back and forth, you linking to endless studies, and I'll argue about what's wrong with them (improperly controlled, blatant p-hacking, conclusions are drawn beyond what the experiment was designed to test, etc.). And in the end we'll both end up exhausted with neither of our minds changing.

Or we can go back to talking about sample libraries and TotalMix FX.


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 28, 2018)

Vik said:


> Feeling guilty sounds like a total waste of energy to me.



If you feel guilty every time that's a waste of energy, agree, however, there is also healthy guilt working your conscious which can lead you to more positive things.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 28, 2018)

Jason-exactly why I didn’t cite the 2012 JAMA study, the 2014 SA discussion, etc. no links


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