# [Reverb] I think I am missing something. Library reverb VS external effects.



## Zak Rahman (May 12, 2018)

I come to this from a background in general music production (guitars, bass, vocals, synths, etc.).

What this means is that, you generally have a set template of your favourite reverbs and delays (plate, long, short, etc.) and *send* the signals to these tracks.

This serves four purposes:

1. Putting everything in the same virtual space, for cohesion.

2. Much more efficient in terms of system resources.

3. It also makes automation a lot easier.

4. It makes it much easier to process the summed reverb of the orchestra, in case you want to compress it or EQ it etc.

So, as a result I am pretty confused as to why so many orchestral libraries come with their own reverbs and the like. Often, they are pretty expansive and can be a selling point of a library.

But if you're using libraries from multiple companies, then why would you do this?

For me, I automatically turn off all in-built library reverbs in order to get the driest signal possible. Then I place the elements I'm working with in a virtual space that suits whatever it is that I'm going for.

To me, this is logical. However, if this was the best method then I don't think top-end libraries would come with their own reverbs etc.

So therefore, I think I'm missing something when it comes to reverb and orchestral-style music.

If anyone could offer opinions or enlighten me, I'd be most grateful.

Many thanks!


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## Divico (May 12, 2018)

Zak Rahman said:


> I come to this from a background in general music production (guitars, bass, vocals, synths, etc.).
> 
> What this means is that, you generally have a set template of your favourite reverbs and delays (plate, long, short, etc.) and *send* the signals to these tracks.
> 
> ...


I may be wrong but imo most people do it the same way as you do it and just disable the verb. At least its what I do. The point in havin a built in verb is probably to have an additional feature in your product. Sometimes when im using just a couple of instruments or practice to play with one particular VI outside my template I´ll turn on the verb but as soon as you have a bunch of VIs going a seperate verb bus will be better becuase of the following reasons:
1. You can print a stem track of the reverb
2. Less resource hungry
3. Easier control 
4. Better to set up a depth by routing groups to different verbs
5. common verbs for glue


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## Zak Rahman (May 12, 2018)

That's exactly what I was thinking.

All your reasons make perfect sense to me, and your validation helps a great deal in easing the confusion in my diseased brain.

Thank you!


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## Divico (May 12, 2018)

I have the same problem :D Always feel kinda sorry that Im not using features that did cost the developers a lot of time and effort and probably are good


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## MarcelM (May 12, 2018)

i doubt it costs the developer alot of money since most of em use the build in konakt convolution reverb and nothing else. only a few will provide additional own IRs.

they just dont never mention that its "only" the kontakt reverb they are using


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## Kent (May 12, 2018)

Having separate verbs can also help with “stem”-bouncing, depending on how granular your printing process gets.


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## pderbidge (May 12, 2018)

Keep in mind that a lot of orchestral libraries, Spitfire to name just one, bakes in the reverb. It is a philosophy of theirs that the this baked in verb sounds more natural for orchestration. So in this case you cannot turn off the reverb. What you would then do is try to find a more dry library and perhaps a hall convolution reverb, like an Air Studio verb to match the Spitfire strings you use. Something like LASS is recorded fairly dry so with an added verb to make it sit in the same space is a way to blend them together.


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## robgb (May 16, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> It is a philosophy of theirs that the this baked in verb sounds more natural for orchestration


Or is just easier to record, perhaps?


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## pderbidge (May 17, 2018)

robgb said:


> Or is just easier to record, perhaps?


If you're recording at Air Studios then I'm sure it would be nearly impossible to get a dry sound but if you're recording in a controlled and treated studio like the one VSL uses or wherever LASS was recorded then not so much.


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## robgb (May 18, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> If you're recording at Air Studios than I'm sure it would be nearly impossible to get a dry sound but if you're recording in a controlled and treated studio like the one VSL uses or wherever LASS was recorded than not so much.


Whatever the case, the "magic" of Air Studios is overrated, and the lack of user control over room sound is a minus, not a plus.


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## markleake (May 18, 2018)

robgb said:


> Whatever the case, the "magic" of Air Studios is overrated, and the lack of user control over room sound is a minus, not a plus.


If that were the case then I doubt their libraries would sell as well as they do.


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## Divico (May 18, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> Keep in mind that a lot of orchestral libraries, Spitfire to name just one, bakes in the reverb. It is a philosophy of theirs that the this baked in verb sounds more natural for orchestration. So in this case you cannot turn off the reverb. What you would then do is try to find a more dry library and perhaps a hall convolution reverb, like an Air Studio verb to match the Spitfire strings you use. Something like LASS is recorded fairly dry so with an added verb to make it sit in the same space is a way to blend them together.


Isnt this more of a room sound you get in the recording and not a reverb?
As to matching sound with reverb I agree, though Id still set up anj AUX for this


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## pderbidge (May 18, 2018)

Divico said:


> Isnt this more of a room sound you get in the recording and not a reverb?
> As to matching sound with reverb I agree, though Id still set up anj AUX for this


Other than using reverb as a creative fx isn't the point of reverb to create a "room sound"? So in that case a library like Spitfire that uses the room sound of Air Studios is like having it's own baked in reverb. Semantics I suppose but the point is that two libraries with different baked in room sounds might not play well together so to pick on spitfire again, you find libraries that blend with it and not the other way around. From there you can then bus your tracks to another reverb. So essentially you could try and bus the dry and the wet library to a reverb to see if they work well together or you might treat the dry library first with a reverb to help match the room sound of the wet library and then bus them together to "another" reverb for a desired sound.

I suppose you could try a de-verb on the wet library to help it blend but then I would imagine you are now defeating the purpose of buying the library for it's room sound.


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## Divico (May 18, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> Other than using reverb as a creative fx isn't the point of reverb to create a "room sound"? So in that case a library like Spitfire that uses the room sound of Air Studios is like having it's own baked in reverb. Semantics I suppose but the point is that two libraries with different baked in room sounds might not play well together so to pick on spitfire again, you find libraries that blend with it and not the other way around. From there you can then bus your tracks to another reverb. So essentially you could try and bus the dry and the wet library to a reverb to see if they work well together or you might treat the dry library first with a reverb to help match the room sound of the wet library and then bus them together to "another" reverb for a desired sound.
> 
> I suppose you could try a de-verb on the wet library to help it blend but then I would imagine you are now defeating the purpose of buying the library for it's room sound.


Yeah agree. But I´d still prefer an additional Aux for ambience "correction".
I tried this for HO using Spaces with the EW studio loaded as an Aux for other insrtuments. Obviously this Aux has to be routed to the additional verbs


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