# Lemur EOL, removal from app stores in September



## WindcryMusic (Jul 30, 2022)

Quoting from Liine’s Facebook pages:

_Lemur development has stopped and the app will be removed from the Apple App Store and Google Play Store on 01 September 2022.
It was a difficult decision to make but one for which the time had come.
Collectively our team have been working with Lemur in its various iterations since as far back as 2005 when the original multitouch hardware version was released, before the birth of the iPhone and when touchscreens could only track a single touch. Bringing the Lemur to iOS and Android and helping to democratise and make affordable this kind of advanced music control via touch was a dream that we were thrilled to accomplish. From watching Daft Punk in the pyramid to witnessing the first ever live jam between Earth and orbit, working with Lemur has been full of inspiring firsts. The list of notable artists and performances featuring Lemur in one of its incarnations is simply too numerous to list here. It's a tool which has facilitated and inspired and we are constantly humbled by the tens of thousands of users who continue to use Lemur in their daily sound design, composition and performance practice.
Unfortunately, the realities of business mean that Lemur was always a labour of love and we’ve reached a point where this is simply no longer sustainable. In recent years the core partners have been focussing on their new journeys and taking care of Lemur became something we did in our spare time. Now we must move on. We wanted to bow out as gracefully as possible so, in this final year, we strove to update Lemur to full compatibility with the latest versions of iOS and MacOS. We hope that this will allow as many of our users as possible a generous margin of time to transition to their next control setup. If you wish to continue using Lemur please be sure to update the app before we take it off the store. Once Lemur is removed from the store, there’s sadly no way we can help you update.
Of course, we would be delighted if Lemur found yet another way to live on and any serious inquiries can be directed to us by email at [email protected]. For now though, It’s been an honour serving this community of musicians and creators and we must bid our marsupial friend of studio and stage farewell.
Thanks,
Liine team_
_http://liine.net_


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## WindcryMusic (Jul 30, 2022)

This hurts me, as I don’t know of any alternative that can replace what Lemur does in my studio. Pushed by this announcement, I’ve finally downloaded the recent 5.4 update referred to in their post this morning and have confirmed that my rather extensive studio control program still appears to work in all respects with the latest version, so that’s good news for now. But the five year old 12” iPad Pro that currently runs Lemur in my studio isn’t going to last forever, and when it eventually dies, it will now take much of my studio’s functionality with it, because I won’t be able to get Lemur onto a replacement. So … a sad day.


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## tcovem (Jul 31, 2022)

I was so sad to see this as well, though I figured it was coming at some point as Lemur has been barely supported for several years, though the recent update gave me some hope I guess it was more of a last gasp. I do find it sort of surprising that since it’s in wide use they can’t find someone to carry it forward. Anyway, yes super sad. What are our collective options: Touch OSC?


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## WindcryMusic (Jul 31, 2022)

tcovem said:


> I was so sad to see this as well, though I figured it was coming at some point as Lemur has been barely supported for several years, though the recent update gave me some hope I guess it was more of a last gasp. I do find it sort of surprising that since it’s in wide use they can’t find someone to carry it forward. Anyway, yes super sad. What are our collective options: Touch OSC?


When I’d reviewed the manual for the new version of TouchOSC around the time of its release, I had concluded that although it had come a long way, it still didn’t provide some of Lemur’s capabilities that I rely upon in my studio controller software. However, not everyone has a controller program as complex as mine, so I imagine TouchOSC would be able to do the job for a good many people. In fact I purchased TouchOSC just this morning in order to start working with it, in case I lose Lemur through device failure in the near future and have no choice but to get by within its limitations … at least then I’ll have had a head start with it.

But I’m first going to try to extend the life of my Lemur controllers for as long as possible.

(I’d been thinking about making one or more videos demonstrating my Lemur setup, because I think it does some neat stuff … but now that the Lemur app is going away, I tend to think there’s no longer any point in doing so.)


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## Stefcien (Aug 4, 2022)

This is painful for me. I ran 2 of the original hardware Lemurs and still run the iPad app. Jazzmutant and I have been through some shit together LOL.


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## coprhead6 (Aug 4, 2022)

I spent 2 months setting up my entire massive template with Composer Tools Pro and C-Brains… I am speechless right now.


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## WindcryMusic (Aug 4, 2022)

I’ve looked further into TouchOSC and have been pretty disappointed at how many things are still missing from it in comparison to Lemur. It’s worse than I feared, and I don’t see any way I could even come close to doing the same kind of controller with it that I have done in Lemur.

So even though I really can’t afford it, I’m biting the bullet and getting another iPad to install Lemur on before the month ends, so that I can make Lemur last as long as possible. (I simply won’t upgrade the OS on it, since running Lemur will be its main job … I just have to hope that the hardware lasts a long time.)


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## synthetic (Aug 5, 2022)

Sad, but support essentially ended years ago.


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## WindcryMusic (Aug 7, 2022)

synthetic said:


> Sad, but support essentially ended years ago.


True, but even without said support, the app still worked for most users and was still able to be installed on new devices. It has continued to serve me very well … and I can only hope will continue to serve me well for at least another 5+ years. But now I’m forced to hope I can keep alive my devices that have Lemur installed, whild hoping that some capable replacement app or other solution comes along before those devices eventually fail.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Aug 7, 2022)

synthetic said:


> Sad, but support essentially ended years ago.


Nevertheless it is the most reliable software I use in my studio. On Mac and Windows. Never caused any headaches after it was set up. Given that I still use an at least 8 year old ipad for it I can imagine even after it is officially gone it will continue to work for some years if I install it on my latest ipad. And on Windows which I migrated to lately it's usually not such a big deal to work with old software. At least this is what I hope for. 
The better solution would be someone capable takes over and continues the business. Why not someone like Spitfire or Steinberg? Even if they don't make millions out of it it would be a priceless benefit and service for us customers. And it could well be that a reliable support would create a lot of new users.


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## NuNativs (Aug 7, 2022)

Metagrid Pro can fulfill many of the functions that Lemur did.


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## J-M (Aug 7, 2022)

...Fuck. Lemur+Composer Tools Pro is the driving force behind my template.


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## WindcryMusic (Aug 7, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> Metagrid Pro can fulfill many of the functions that Lemur did.



I’m sorry to have to say that “many” is an overstatement. For the simplest control templates (i.e., the kind for which Lemur would have been overkill anyway), sure, but a review of the documentation suggests that Metagrid Pro has less capability than even TouchOSC v2, much less Lemur. Metagrid Pro isn’t even within shouting distance of being able to support most of the features of my Lemur studio control setup.

I wonder if I should go ahead and make a video about my Lemur control setup despite the app being taken down, just to make it clear what Lemur could do that these other apps cannot? (Maybe it would inspire a competing app to add some of the missing functionality … or someone to buy the Lemur source code and continue its development?)


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## matthieuL (Aug 9, 2022)

I use Open Stage Control : 





Open Stage Control (Tutorial) - An alternative to Lemur and TouchOSC


Hi everyone! I've been using Open Stage Control for almost two years now (jeez, time flies). This application really improved my workflow as a composer. It’s an alternative to Lemur/TouchOSC. This is a free software developed by Jean-Emmanuel, available on Windows, OSX, Linux. It's quite a long...




vi-control.net





I don't know if it does more or less than Lemur, but I find it very powerful (at least paired with Cubase). But at the price to code yourself your customized UI and features...


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## WindcryMusic (Aug 9, 2022)

matthieuL said:


> I use Open Stage Control :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree that this will probably be the best option once Lemur is out of the picture. But it is limited by the capabilities of the web browser that must be used to operate it. That, plus the need to do more programming than is necessary with Lemur (as you mentioned), and the need to have a separate computer for the web server (because I wouldn’t want my DAW‘s CPU burdened with the need to simultaneously run a web server) are what will likely keep me using Lemur up until the day it is pried from my cold, dead hands … er, hardware.


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## Freds (Aug 9, 2022)

WindcryMusic said:


> I agree that this will probably be the best option once Lemur is out of the picture. But it is limited by the capabilities of the web browser that must be used to operate it. That, plus the need to do more programming than is necessary with Lemur (as you mentioned), and the need to have a separate computer for the web server (because I wouldn’t want my DAW‘s CPU burdened with the need to simultaneously run a web server) are what will likely keep me using Lemur up until the day it is pried from my cold, dead hands … er, hardware.


You mentioned OSC won't be able to keep up the same functionality of your LEMUR template. I'm just curious of what kind of features you wouldn't be able to transport to OSC? 

I have a fairly elaborated LEMUR template and I'll be exploring options as well, so i'm curious of what major features we would be missing as lots of composers use OSC (Trevor Morris being one of the biggest examples) and i would imagine it will do most of the basic film scoring stuff. For example, one feature I'm thinking is my XY pad on Lemur which is very useful. It does have some fancy programming (automatic movement with attraction, friction, etc) but most of it is not essential.


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## WindcryMusic (Aug 9, 2022)

Freds said:


> You mentioned OSC won't be able to keep up the same functionality of your LEMUR template. I'm just curious of what kind of features you wouldn't be able to transport to OSC?
> 
> I have a fairly elaborated LEMUR template and I'll be exploring options as well, so i'm curious of what major features we would be missing as lots of composers use OSC (Trevor Morris being one of the biggest examples) and i would imagine it will do most of the basic film scoring stuff. For example, one feature I'm thinking is my XY pad on Lemur which is very useful. It does have some fancy programming (automatic movement with attraction, friction, etc) but most of it is not essential.



I don‘t have any direct experience with OSC. But web browsers still can’t provide the same level of UI flexibility and responsiveness that a dedicated app can, and my understanding is that the user interface to OSC is through a web browser. That’s the source of my belief that the UI functionality would necessarily be more limited. For example, Lemur provides physical characteristics to how controls like sliders act, characteristics that can nicely emulate the behavior of things like pitch wheels, and I’d be very surprised and impressed if the same could be achieved via a web browser. The same goes for the weight and inertia of controls like those XY pads you mentioned.


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## SomeGuy (Aug 9, 2022)

WindcryMusic said:


> I wonder if I should go ahead and make a video about my Lemur control setup despite the app being taken down, just to make it clear what Lemur could do that these other apps cannot? (Maybe it would inspire a competing app to add some of the missing functionality … or someone to buy the Lemur source code and continue its development?)


Sounds like a great idea! I am also curious to what Composer tools is going to do now as I to use this daily https://www.midikinetics.com/products/composer-tools-pro/


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## tmhuud (Aug 9, 2022)

WindcryMusic said:


> But the five year old 12” iPad Pro that currently runs Lemur in my studio isn’t going to last forever, and when it eventually dies, it will now take much of my studio’s functionality with it, because I won’t be able to get Lemur onto a replacement. So … a sad day.


I guess what you can do [and I've done this with several products that I knew would eventually die, is buy a used good condition iPad Pro (same model number)], but I guess that may come with lasting battery issues, etc.


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## WindcryMusic (Aug 9, 2022)

tmhuud said:


> I guess what you can do [and I've done this with several products that I knew would eventually die, is buy a used good condition iPad Pro (same model number)], but I guess that may come with lasting battery issues, etc.



That’s why I just bought a brand new iPad Pro 12.9” to get Lemur installed on it while I still could. My current 12” iPad in the studio is five years old and going strong, but of course it won’t last forever, so at least now I’ve got one fallback device that isn’t equally as old.

But it goes to show that the Lemur team misunderstood their users. They could have easily built a new version of Lemur with just a couple more features and charged another $50 for it (or $100 for that matter), and that still would have been less than 10% of the cost I just incurred to try to preserve Lemur in my studio for a few years longer, so I would gladly have paid them for such a new version.


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## pmcrockett (Aug 9, 2022)

I wonder what Liine would want for a buyout of the IP/codebase? Not that I would have the money for it, but the best case scenario here would be that someone buys the rights to Lemur from them and puts it back on the market and maintains it.


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## tmhuud (Aug 9, 2022)

I don’t think anything really comes close to what Lemur does. It may be a case of a mismanaged company. Sometimes companies grow too fast and don’t know how to allocate profits, etc. I’ve seen great products go by the wAy side in my time and others that just sell out. 

Competition is fierce these days. Without a tremendous amount of backing it’s hard. Passion isn’t enough.


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## SomeGuy (Sep 15, 2022)

Anyone test lemur with iOS16? It’s sad that one day compatibility will break, and hopefully this thread can keep up to date as its seemingly impossible to downgrade iOS.


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## rgames (Sep 15, 2022)

Yeah Lemur is at the core of my setup as well. There have been a few threads here over the past few years in anticipation of its eventual loss of support.

Regarding the company, it's not necessarily mismanaged. Sometimes niche products just aren't economically feasible. I bet they'd have to charge $1000 per license to keep the dev team together. But nobody is going to pay that. So either way the company goes away.

Now that I think about it, the Samsung Galaxy View tablet I use with Lemur is also a failed product. Alas.


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## dgburns (Sep 18, 2022)

I went in pretty deeply on Lemur in a roll your own kinda way. I jumped over to Patchboard, and it‘s pretty nifty. Patchboard shows me a very different way of working with the daw template, and it makes you aware of patches you might not always think of using. I still wanted to use Lemur for some things. So I looked at the new Touchosc, I was avoiding it because I heard some people were put off by the scripting. I spent today in it, very early days, but I think the new Touchosc will end up being Lemur’s replacement for me. I like the fact that it’s active and supported. I also like that I’ll be able to replicate my Lemur template and make it look and function the same. Just wish Touchosc had the physics things Lemur did, but oh well.


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## MisteR (Sep 18, 2022)

WindcryMusic said:


> This hurts me, as I don’t know of any alternative that can replace what Lemur does in my studio. Pushed by this announcement, I’ve finally downloaded the recent 5.4 update referred to in their post this morning and have confirmed that my rather extensive studio control program still appears to work in all respects with the latest version, so that’s good news for now. But the five year old 12” iPad Pro that currently runs Lemur in my studio isn’t going to last forever, and when it eventually dies, it will now take much of my studio’s functionality with it, because I won’t be able to get Lemur onto a replacement. So … a sad day.


It is my understanding that you can still install EOL iPad apps as long as they are compatible with your current iOS and device even if they have been taken off of the App Store. In that case you would go to my purchases in your account and install it from there. So even if you need to upgrade to a new iPad you may be OK for a while. I have been able to install some really old apps that haven’t been on the App Store for years in this way. But you must have the full version of the lemur in your account before it gets taken off the store. And for the desktop app I’m sure you must save the installers.


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## WindcryMusic (Sep 19, 2022)

MisteR said:


> It is my understanding that you can still install EOL iPad apps as long as they are compatible with your current iOS and device even if they have been taken off of the App Store. In that case you would go to my purchases in your account and install it from there. So even if you need to upgrade to a new iPad you may be OK for a while. I have been able to install some really old apps that haven’t been on the App Store for years in this way. But you must have the full version of the lemur in your account before it gets taken off the store. And for the desktop app I’m sure you must save the installers.


Your understanding differs from mine, then. Mine is based not just upon what I’ve read, but personal experience in having lost access to quite a few apps over the years in the same way. But I hope you are right.


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## rgames (Sep 19, 2022)

WindcryMusic said:


> Your understanding differs from mine, then. Mine is based not just upon what I’ve read, but personal experience in having lost access to quite a few apps over the years in the same way. But I hope you are right.


You can install apps from downloaded installation packages on Android (I have to do that for the DJI drone app because DJI doesn't put it in the Google Play store). Presumably you can do that same on iOS, in which case you just need to keep a copy of the installer.

So that brings up the next question: does anybody know where to download the Lemur installers?

Or are they available only through the app stores because of licensing restrictions or something like that?


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## dgburns (Sep 19, 2022)

rgames said:


> You can install apps from downloaded installation packages on Android (I have to do that for the DJI drone app because DJI doesn't put it in the Google Play store). Presumably you can do that same on iOS, in which case you just need to keep a copy of the installer.
> 
> So that brings up the next question: does anybody know where to download the Lemur installers?
> 
> Or are they available only through the app stores because of licensing restrictions or something like that?


If you mean the editors, the Daemon and such, Liine posted a link to some google drive or something like that. For the actual Lemur app itself, you can maybe restore it if you backed up using the old Itunes, because there was a time that actual apps would get backed up to the mac computer. I’m thinking in order to restore the app, you would restore the ipad from a backup in that way. Cannot speak to Android users.


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## rgames (Sep 19, 2022)

dgburns said:


> If you mean the editors, the Daemon and such, Liine posted a link to some google drive or something like that. For the actual Lemur app itself


Yeah I'm talking about the app that runs on iOS/Android. I have a copy of the installer for the editor app for Windows.

Just last week I made the switch to Win11 and Cubase 12 and got my aging Lemur setup up and running again. I'm guessing I'll need to find another solution before the next big switch. Even the Generic Remote function in Cubase is being abandoned, and I need that run Lemur. So it's just bad news all around.


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## rsg22 (Sep 19, 2022)

rgames said:


> You can install apps from downloaded installation packages on Android (I have to do that for the DJI drone app because DJI doesn't put it in the Google Play store). Presumably you can do that same on iOS, in which case you just need to keep a copy of the installer.


This is not the case on iOS. Apple does not allow side loading apps or installing from outside the official app store, unfortunately. Unless you have a jailbroken iOS device and are somehow able to grab the installer.

Edit: that is, unless you use an MDM system like TestFlight and happen to somehow have an old copy of the iOS app. Not sure how that would work though...


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## johncdl (Sep 23, 2022)

Long-time Lemur user here!

I was devastated. I went back to TouchOSC like you and you're right, it's _nothing_ compared to Lemur. I discovered Open Stage Control thanks to JNB and Brian Rivlin. The look is definitely not Lemur-ish, but it can do far greater things than Lemur ever could.


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## L&S (Oct 25, 2022)

Hello everyone, this is my experience...
After some years of development with Lemur, to create an advanced control surface for Korg Arranger keyboards, with some integrated modulators that can be synchronized via Midi, I found out several limitations including:
- limited length of script pages (4096 characters)
- delays between MIDI-tik / MIDI-clock signals which make often the application unusable (see step-sequencer) perhaps due to the complexity of the application.
I think the delays are due to the limits imposed by the Midi protocol.
Maybe using the OSC protocol didn't encounter this problem...
- outdated programming interface with no debug options
- limited graphics interface customization
- the application is no longer supported

In fact, some objects integrated into Lemur do not exist in any available software, for example:
- step sequencer
- creation of LFOs with various waveforms generated by scripts and synchronized from Midi-tick signal
- physical management of controls
- dynamic assignment by coding (array and other) of midi messages

I asked the Open Stage Control programmer about the possibility of creating LFO generators and sequencer objects, he replied:
"It may not be impossible but open stage control doesn't aim to provide timing critical features.
A relative sync should be achievable but delays will be unavoidable and I don't plan to develop the software in that direction.
To make it short, o-s-c is not a sequencer. 
I'd recommend handling timing critical functions in another dedicated environment and use o-s-c to control these functions."

Now, I am looking for an alternative application to Lemur that allows me to control and modulated of parameters such as VCF cutoff,VCF resonance, Octave shift, and more through synchronizable steps.
I think we need 2 applications that can communicate with each other, installed on a single device (tablet).
APP1 = sequencer + LFOs synchronized to the synth via midi
(trigger and waveforms generator send to...)
APP2 = control surface with faders / knobs, manually moved or by APP1 triggers.

With the latest Lemur update (5.4 windows) I encountered graphical display problems in the editor, which did not exist in the previous version.

it's likely that Open Stage Control with its web interface is not so responsive to manage Midi timing and any dedicated controls ...


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## WindcryMusic (Monday at 4:43 PM)

The latest news is this: MIDI Kinetics has just announced the acquisition of Lemur. There’s still no word on when or even if the Lemur app will return to any of the App Stores, but for Lemur users it seems worth tracking the progression of this.

The full announcement is on their website’s front page: https://www.midikinetics.com/


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## coprhead6 (Monday at 5:36 PM)

Great news.
I switched to Patchboard in the meantime for key switches but Metagrid Pro has been so buggy and crashes - excited for CBrains again.


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## Home Studio 87 (Wednesday at 5:51 AM)




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## TWY (Wednesday at 7:20 AM)

WindcryMusic said:


> The latest news is this: MIDI Kinetics has just announced the acquisition of Lemur. There’s still no word on when or even if the Lemur app will return to any of the App Stores, but for Lemur users it seems worth tracking the progression of this.
> 
> The full announcement is on their website’s front page: https://www.midikinetics.com/


GREAT f*ckin news! Thanks for the update!


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