# Getting more work



## roon (Apr 14, 2009)

i have recently finished a 3 x 6 hour series for discovery channel.
the music i did was some great work. I was quite pleased with it. And the production company was in a rave about it. 

Working with the VSL on 3 gigastudios, i made 4 hours of original orchestrations for producers to work with. They ended up only using about 1/2 an hour of it across the board. 

the recent series is the third in the sequel and i was so happy to get the work. Before you start thinking that i made a million dollars, i am still driving a car that is almost 15 years old. But hey, my music was heard around the world. That is highly esteeming.

I have a small book called the Encore directory. It is a listing of everyone that is working in the industry in Australia. What i did was email all the producers/directors in this book and directed them to my website that i made to have a listen to my works. I managed to get 4 reasonably big contracts this year doing this from the one production company.

I think i have sold this music into the BIG library so that i have lost any performance rights and any royalties associated. That's about all i could make out of the legal jargon in the 50 page contract. I couldn't afford a lawyer to look over it. I hate lawyers anyway. It may sound naive, but I am very old school honest guy that would settle with a handshake and give it my best. If we could go back to doing that the world would be a better place.

I have felt that i have been very under payed for this work. Considering i have done everything from self promotion, composition, recording, mixing , post mastering, you know the list! It's a lonely life as a composer. But one i fell affinity with. I work for about 14 hours a day doing this. Longer when i cant sleep.

I live very very remotely, and i suffer from a deep depression which isolates me from the rest of humanity. I will not go into that, but even though i find that i draw much musical inspiration from this condition and so far have used music as my medicine, it doesn't help me with self promotion. I certainly never feel like attending parties and film showings.

And presently the work has dried up. I have been told that there is "nothing on the horizon" which does not sound promising. 

So i am back into another self promotion phase of my career, hoping that this year i will make some money to get symphobia and replace that old car with a newer old car, before the machine really starts filling my pocket full of bills.

SO to my point, if anyone has any self promotion tips, for someone that it is impossible to ever meet and can only do business over the internet, i would dearly love to hear them and take all of them on board. I think i have exhausted all my avenues here in my own country and would like to approach some BBC producers or some in the U-States. Is there a list of people working in the industry like our own encore directory?

Amongst some other ideas, I have stared to do surround sound scores which i think there may be some interest in, recording of voice overs, and am even considering advertising music. I am presently updating my website. 

I am a little lost. Where to from here?


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## Ashermusic (Apr 14, 2009)

Roon, I am going to answer you in what I hope is both a compassionate and yet honest matter. 

I think you need to get help with your deep depression first. It is very hard to sell yourself when you feel this way and this is very much a "people" business and even if you succeed, it will bring you little joy.

But quite honestly, few here have as much work or work at the level we both desire and feel we deserve. The simple truth is, while we are friendly most of us are also competitors here, so you have to understand we are going to be protective of any contact methods that we pass on to each other.

I truly wish you the very best and if you ever just want to email me privately, feel free.


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## midphase (Apr 14, 2009)

Unfortunately (for you) what you're asking is a generally highly guarded secret from composer to composer. Nobody likes to tell their competitor one's own tips and tricks for getting more work.


But....since you're new to the board I'll throw a free one your way:

Don't isolate yourself! The more parties and social events that you can attend, the more likely you are to run into someone who might need your services!


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## José Herring (Apr 14, 2009)

It's no secret. Promotion is the key. Your email campaign was successful for you. It has worked for me too. Keep that going. Honestly, the more contacts you make the more work you'll get.

Also, keep in contact with those you have worked with. Email them or write them every month. They have friends who probably need music too.

I don't know where the depression thing came up but what's helped me to understand the mechanisms of depression and what can be done up about it is Dianetics. Bit, controversial I know. But, I've never minded being involved in controversy as long as its helpful.

Best of Luck Man! Great job on the gig. It's a big one and it seems like you handled yourself well.

Here's me giving VSL another look.

best,

Jose


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## Waywyn (Apr 14, 2009)

As my foreposters already mentioned and I mean it serious too: Get some help first!

Just think about this for a moment:
What do you do when your already old car has been damaged or something has to be fixed?
You hurry up, bring it to the garage so you can make it to meetings etc.

But in the end .. it is just an old car ... just a car!!
So what I am going to say is, if your head or brain needs help ... it is much more important to care about this. A car can simply be purchased again ... but we only got one brain which you can't replace ...


Regarding bizz:
I think it is obvious that noone here would just throw you a phone number or address you can head to and get jobs for the next months, but I believe if someone here likes your work and need support, they might throw you a PM.


Also I wasn't sure if I should ask about this, but please if this might be an inappropriate question, just ignore it:

You said, you are impossible to ever meet and just able to work over the internet. So, is that because you are ill, sick or have any possible handicaps? ... or is it only because of your depression or possible fear? If so, I would really get help on this, since you work in a business which is collaboration all over the place ... and therefore other people involved.


Besides all that, I really think you might find tons of adresses on websearch engines from film, game, licence or whatever companies. I think you wouldn't really need an encore book for the U.S. or other countries ...


Good luck!

Alex

PS: Don't wanna sound rude at the end, but you write that you keep our website up to date, you ask for jobs etc. but how come you don't even mention your real name or throw us a link? This would build up much more trust rather than having a few letter to read.


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## Waywyn (Apr 14, 2009)

josejherring @ Tue Apr 14 said:


> I don't know where the depression thing came up but what's helped me to understand the mechanisms of depression and what can be done up about it is Dianetics. Bit, controversial I know. But, I've never minded being involved in controversy as long as its helpful.



Hey Jose, I really respect you as a composer and human being and I really don't want to argue about that with you ... and seriously without sounding offending, there is a bit of a difference by trying or learning to understand the mechanisms of depression or actually suffer from it. These are two different hats. Please be aware of that!


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## lux (Apr 14, 2009)

roon, did u use some specific approach in your email? I'm curious because it didnt work for me.


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## _taylor (Apr 14, 2009)

Folmann @ Tue Apr 14 said:


> All that matters is hardcore focus, dedication, passion and optimism - that is seriously the swiss army knife of success.



100% agree.


If what you already did landed you a gig with Discovery Channel you must be doing something right. Keep doing it and doing it, over and over and over..


I really think the key to landing gigs is a numbers game. The more emails you send, the more calls you make.. betters your odds of landing a gig. 

To quote the famous rapper Rick Ross "Everyday I'm Hustlin" :mrgreen:


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## roon (Apr 14, 2009)

Yes. I did consider that this post could be bread stealing, and thought twice about making it. I do apologize. I certainly didn't want to do that!!!



Waywyn @ Wed Apr 15 said:


> You said, you are impossible to ever meet and just able to work over the internet. So, is that because you are ill, sick or have any possible handicaps? ... or is it only because of your depression or possible fear? If so, I would really get help on this, since you work in a business which is collaboration all over the place ... and therefore other people involved.
> 
> PS: Don't wanna sound rude at the end, but you write that you keep our website up to date, you ask for jobs etc. but how come you don't even mention your real name or throw us a link? This would build up much more trust rather than having a few letter to read.



Ill throw you a link when i get that website up to date ... no problem there... 
Of course i will get very unsecure if you real professionals listen to my music.
I have mentioned my real name in my introduction post. I am Johann "Roon" Salzman. I don't like the anonymity and unaccountability in the internet. .

I have no handicaps, only that i live very remotely in a town of no more than 9 people. There are no film parties here. This is what makes meeting people more difficult than anything else.

As far as the depression, i have extraneous causes for this. It is not like a chemical imbalance in my brain that needs serotonin therapy. I feel that this path would only vegetate an active and creative mind. I have suffered a great loss and only time (and music) heals. Depression is a bad thing tho. It forces you to isolate yourself because you feel unworthy or "no fun" to be around, from friends and family and people that care. These are people that would be the ultimate cure of it. Hence it prolongs. I should definitely have to rectify this in the near future.

I appreciate that CONTACTS are guarded secret and will continue to do what i have been doing in the hope that i can build more secure contacts myself.Thanks for your input.


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## autopilot (Apr 14, 2009)

Roon, I've PM'd you with my phone number...

I'll talk you through this, but essentially you will need to contact Michelle O'Donnell at APRA. I cannot speak highly enough how lovely and hard working for Australian TV composers Michelle is. 

The deal you've described (signing away perf rights) is illegal here. There is no work for hire for Oz composers. You cannot sign away those kind of rights here. Full stop. 

I've had very large multinational companies present big fat contracts (which I've signed) which have had to be reversed because they were not based on an understanding of Australian Performance Rights Law. 

By discovering this I've made a lot of money here on performance rights, which has made the difference between paying for my house, or living with my wife's parents. 

And that rolls very nicely into the next bit ... The truth about this business is that you need to use with lawyers every now and then. Negotiation is confronting, and if you're dealing with depression (like I am and have) it's even harder. But that's why you hire someone to be on your side. It's ony money, and in the end the cost is always relative to the deal you're signing anyway. 

I can suggest a good lawyer for you as well, though of course they can be expensive on large contracts. If you can't deal with a 50 page contract then you need someone that will.

I'm also a composer (in Sydney) and as I mentioned I am dealing with the other kind of stuff you're talking about. Anxiety, depression etc. 

Give me a call... we might be good to talk to each other.

Sean


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## roon (Apr 14, 2009)

lux @ Wed Apr 15 said:


> roon, did u use some specific approach in your email? I'm curious because it didnt work for me.



yeah i did

I told them i lived remotely... and the producer loved the idea of composing music in the wilderness of tasmania... so on this occasion it worked.


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## roon (Apr 14, 2009)

autopilot @ Wed Apr 15 said:


> Roon, I've PM'd you with my phone number...
> 
> Give me a call... we might be good to talk to each other.
> 
> Sean



I can not believe all these responses... I only made this post about 1/2 hour ago.


PM received 
LOL
What are you doing up at this time of night Sean?

i will call soon 
thanks
friend


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## autopilot (Apr 14, 2009)

7am here - and I have 2 kids!


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## IvanP (Apr 14, 2009)

Hi, Roon, and welcome!

It was good reading your email, I have a very similar story behind yours... I also did music for a Documentary series which has been bought by Discovery Channel. I also did a shitty contract because I couldn't afford a lawyer. I still can't. I did everything myself too and for a miserable budget. I live in a country with limited audiovisual production capabilities and artistic scope, with really limited budgets and where everything is controlled by "3" people. I am also thinking of the "way out" and how should I reach the "next step".

It can be soul sucking indeed. 

But I think it's important to try and develop a positive attitude or it would end up eating everything you've worked so hard until. And that wouldn't be fair, wouldn't it?

One of my teachers told us the 1st day: "this isn't a career in which a composer has to shine more than the other, it's a career where the winner is the one who stands still to the end".
I was lucky enough to meet and watch Basil Poledouris perform on stage his Conan suite, two months before he passed away. No matter how weak he was, he was so passionate about what he has done, how things got started, how he went on during his carreer and It wasn't always easy and I'm sure he had breakdowns before. But he still had a huge passion and love for music and he really, really fought until the end. 

As Troels said, that's what will eventually will open your doors and make you improve as well. It's probably something to consider developing just as you developed your counterpoint, your orchestration, etc.

This is a very long and demanding career. but I'm sure you'll be able to reach higher just as you convinced to get the gig.

Just don't drop it and continue fighting!! We're all on the same boat, after all  

Regards, 

Iván


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## Waywyn (Apr 14, 2009)

roon @ Tue Apr 14 said:


> lux @ Wed Apr 15 said:
> 
> 
> > roon, did u use some specific approach in your email? I'm curious because it didnt work for me.
> ...



Haha, man I just had to laugh how everybody know had this little thought of moving to the countryside!! 

In the end you are the one bringing us the gigs!!! :D


Seriously, it is my turn to apologize since I didn't read your introduction post. I just stumbled on this thread ...

You know, I also had my time back then where I was thinking about to quit.
No worries about bills, money and always crawling "on the edge" - just head to work every morning, earn money, have an insurance, buy food and pay rent ... this all sounds so cool ... but in the end?

Isn't that a privilege what we are doing? We create music to make people laugh, cry, hope, scare, making them bite their fingernails ... :twisted: 

I would say stick to it, move on and don't give up. Even if work dried out a bit ... it doesn't mean that someone has "took your ears".

... and I think if you follow autopilots advice you are a step further!


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## lux (Apr 14, 2009)

Waywyn @ Tue Apr 14 said:


> roon @ Tue Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> > lux @ Wed Apr 15 said:
> ...



Alex, i believe he was just having fun with that reply.


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## José Herring (Apr 14, 2009)

Waywyn @ Tue Apr 14 said:


> josejherring @ Tue Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know where the depression thing came up but what's helped me to understand the mechanisms of depression and what can be done up about it is Dianetics. Bit, controversial I know. But, I've never minded being involved in controversy as long as its helpful.
> ...



You may not know it. But, I have suffered with depression. Quite severely. That which you understand you can control. The mind doesn't have to be a mystery. But, I don't want to make this discussion about depression. I'll save it for another thread. I really didn't get from his post what he was depressed about.

Troels hit it on the head with his post. I find that the struggle is part of being a composer. Picking yourself up after you have failed. Believing in yourself when nobody else does. Those things are precious to successfully getting and completing jobs.

Jose


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## Waywyn (Apr 14, 2009)

lux @ Tue Apr 14 said:


> Waywyn @ Tue Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> > roon @ Tue Apr 14 said:
> ...



Uhm well ... if his words were ment ironical:
""I told them i lived remotely... and the producer loved the idea of composing music in the wilderness of tasmania... so on this occasion it worked.""

... then of course my comment doesn't sound very adequate


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## roon (Apr 14, 2009)

Alex,

The producer i believe was tired of living in the BIG city, and from his email i ascertained that he would like a more peaceful environment. No irony here. 
So your comment was appropriate for sure.
Tasmania is a peaceful place for sure. 

ok, im off to google some dianetics 
with kindness to all musicians
roon.


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## Stevie (Apr 14, 2009)

Hey roon,

I sometimes encounter people, who don't even reply when you send them a mail. 
That's very unpolite in my eyes.
I cross my fingers for you for future gigs!


Cheers, 

Stevie



P.S: hasn't Dianetics to do with Scientology?


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## choc0thrax (Apr 14, 2009)

Scientology and moderate exercise cures all cases of depression. I know this because I know the history of psychology.


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## midphase (Apr 14, 2009)

Dear Mr. Spielberg,

My home is smack in the middle of the Sahara desert, please throw some work my way!


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## José Herring (Apr 14, 2009)

midphase @ Tue Apr 14 said:


> Dear Mr. Spielberg,
> 
> My home is smack in the middle of the Sahara desert, please throw some work my way!



This is funny. But, his point is valid. I did a commercial and the production house was in Morocco. I got it through emailing the company. They paid me on time. It was great not having to go to endless meetings and stuff.

Jose


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## gamalataki (Apr 14, 2009)

midphase @ Tue Apr 14 said:


> Dear Mr. Spielberg,
> 
> My home is smack in the middle of the Sahara desert, please throw some work my way!



Dear Mr. Phase,

I've always wanted to surround myself with sand. Lets do all the post production at your place!

I'm excited!

Steven Spielberg


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## autopilot (Apr 14, 2009)

Yep - have done gigs without face to face before. Have completed the second season of one show, and just met the director


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## roon (Apr 14, 2009)

midphase @ Wed Apr 15 said:


> Dear Mr. Spielberg,
> 
> My home is smack in the middle of the Sahara desert, please throw some work my way!



LOL
that is funny...
Although i'd be discouraged if i start to think like that.

It is possible.
Not on the Spielberg scale of course, with the big prods, but some smaller bread ones.
Ill keep trying.


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## Brobdingnagian (Apr 14, 2009)

I can't help but wonder if this post was really stated by another one of Simon's alter-egos.....

Some of us who have been into this for a while may remember when he amused us with his character "Lewis" on Northern Sounds.....

...remember gents? "Lewis" was the one who's day gig was caring for the elephants in a Danish zoo.......and composing by night......

Just saying is all........

As an aside, this has been a depressing, enlightening and amusing thread all rolled into one.

Very deep.

Monsieur Choco - I am glad you made your odious entrance on this thread. On vous besoin avec celui la.


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## Christian Marcussen (Apr 14, 2009)

choc0thrax's post was a fresh breath of much needed sanity. 

Regarding Simon/Lewis... I missed all that... sounds fun :D


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## Frederick Russ (Apr 15, 2009)

First off - welcome to VI! Secondly, I think Jay was spot on regarding dealing with depression first as was Troels by bringing in the element of optimism - so vital in this industry.

The composing dynamic can be a very isolating part of the business but you can mix it up with friends and family. Definitely don't isolate yourself and composing 24/7 isn't an option. Schedule your work time and your off time like any other biz - and in the off time, hang with friends and participate in life.

In the interim between jobs, you could try checking music libraries, build your website, start emailing and calling people, send demos, build demo reels (general and specific, shorter and longer, etc) and consider yourself on the clock with your business. Good fortune and stay positive.


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