# Tenor Colossus - Tenor Sax Library!



## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 30, 2021)

Guys and gals...it's coming.









Tenor Colossus


This tenor saxophone library marks the first truly realistic library of its kind. Dripping with vibe and personality, Tenor Colossus fills a much-needed gap in everyone's sample arsenal. Includes Free Kontakt Player.




www.straightaheadsamples.com


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jan 30, 2021)

Wow! Any idea what this might cost?


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 30, 2021)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Wow! Any idea what this might cost?


If it's anything like Birth of the Trumpet, I would assume around the $130 range? But won't know for sure until its release!


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## mohsohsenshi (Jan 30, 2021)

I think they're going to finish the BOT Solo Instrument line with all Sax and Brass, around 120 USD per piece and likely a 85% intro price.
Really nice intimate and modern Jazz sound, I have most of their products.


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## FireGS (Jan 30, 2021)

I just realllly hope some real Forte/Fortissimo samples were recorded... The technology is game-changing, but the sample style really limits its uses for the wider audience that works on Orchestral works.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 30, 2021)

FireGS said:


> I just realllly hope some real Forte/Fortissimo samples were recorded... The technology is game-changing, but the sample style really limits its uses for the wider audience that works on Orchestral works.


We'll have to see!


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 30, 2021)

mohsohsenshi said:


> I think they're going to finish the BOT Solo Instrument line with all Sax and Brass, around 120 USD per piece and likely a 85% intro price.
> Really nice intimate and modern Jazz sound, I have most of their products.


Yep!


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## axb312 (Jan 30, 2021)

FireGS said:


> I just realllly hope some real Forte/Fortissimo samples were recorded... The technology is game-changing, but the sample style really limits its uses for the wider audience that works on Orchestral works.


I too am hoping for a broader dynamic range. Hoping that they improve this in an update for birth of the trumpet as well.

Also hoping for a significant loyalty discount that'll make the collection reach a sensible price. 130 USD each for 4-5 instruments is too high.

@StraightAheadSamples thoughts?

Also, thanks for the heads up @ChrisSiuMusic.


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## jimjazzuk (Jan 30, 2021)

A sax sample library that can swing? I'll believe it when I hear it


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## Rob Elliott (Jan 30, 2021)

Cool - thanks for the heads up. Owners of the trpt. Are you using it? (after the initial use right after purchase)


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## Getsumen (Feb 1, 2021)

Excited for this!
I wish more companies tried to do the smart delay thing, especially for orchestral stuff but I understand that the cost is significantly higher.

Still, would be a nice thing to have. Sorta like a better version of OT's adaptive legato


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Feb 1, 2021)

Seems very interesting. I have a jazz piece to finish soon. Might go for one or more of their products. They sound very nice!


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Feb 1, 2021)

Just listened for their demos. Blown away! I would love a trombone now


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## artomatic (Feb 1, 2021)

Was hoping to hear a demo or two from this announcement. 
Will have to wait then. Love the Birth of the Trumpet!


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## kgdrum (Feb 1, 2021)

This looks really interesting,I’d like to see Straight Ahead Samples also develop hard/post bop editions that are a bit more edgy.
Ultimately if they can develop this approach towards Funk,R&B,Pop horns and sections they'd answer many peoples prayers. 👍


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Feb 1, 2021)

Wow, just learned from SAS that they are working on a *trombone *library too!!


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## BezO (Feb 1, 2021)

I discovered SAS after the trumpet's intro offer. I'll be sure to catch this if it's as good. Maybe they'll do an intro/bundle offer.

Another vote for a broader dynamic range.


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## sourcefor (Feb 1, 2021)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Guys and gals...it's coming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking forward to,your review and first look!


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## Wally Garten (Feb 2, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> I wish more companies tried to do the smart delay thing



Ah, man -- conversely, this is the one thing keeping me away from these libraries. I just think it would drive me nuts to have the MIDI for one instrument so far out of whack with the MIDI for everything else.

Can't argue with the results, though.


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## BezO (Feb 23, 2021)

I just grabbed the trumpet with their 35% coupon. Can't wait to put this to use.




Wally Garten said:


> Ah, man -- conversely, this is the one thing keeping me away from these libraries. I just think it would drive me nuts to have the MIDI for one instrument so far out of whack with the MIDI for everything else.
> 
> Can't argue with the results, though.


Yeah, this is going to test my OCD. I wish they had a Kontakt-like update sample pool option where you play through the song and then updated the samples.

Aside from the aesthetics, if you have trumpet/sax at the beginning of a song, you'll have to push the start of the song back in the arranger.


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## dflood (Mar 24, 2021)

Unless I’m wrong about how all this works, I‘m guessing the one-bar delay offset is just something they need to do because Kontakt can’t read the midi events in the track ahead of time. So, it’s kind of a workaround, but the results are incredibly impressive. If they could read ahead, they could presumably preprocess an entire track with the most idiomatically appropriate samples from their sample pool according to some set of rules, much the way a real player is (often subconsciously) thinking about the ‘feel‘ of next phrase and how they will play it. Anyway, if Birth of the Trumpet is any indication, they are really onto something here.


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## Stringtree (Mar 24, 2021)

I'm looking for Reaper bar offsets to give the Birth of the Trumpet four beats, but Reaper has so many plugins, it's hard to craft a search. So before the plugin, just some MIDI utility that delays a measure in 4/4, does anyone know of anything?

This would make a Favorite pushbutton to enable the preceding offset plugin. For sure, anything else by this group is going to be an object of my attention. A sax, trombone, that does what trumpet does.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (May 8, 2021)

Let's gooo


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## Toecutter (May 8, 2021)

wow SAS is taking things to the next level with Colossus and Birth of the trumpet


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## Simon Lee (May 8, 2021)

I would love to trade 4’s with this library lol!!


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## kgdrum (May 8, 2021)

I just wish there was a bit more bite and these libraries were capable of being a bit more edgy.
They sound wonderful but a bit on the smooth laid back side for my taste.
They seem to have a distinct 50’s Cool Jazz flavor,I hope SAS expands these and ventures into the 60’s and the 70’s sound wise,more growls,honks etc…..
I’d prefer these if they could get more into a hard bop or post bop sound as imo it would make these work with more genres like R&B,Funk,Rock as well as Jazz.
But it is a huge step forward & they do sound GREAT!


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## Simon Lee (May 8, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> I just wish there was a bit more bite and these libraries were capable of being a bit more edgy.
> They sound wonderful but a bit on the smooth laid back side for my taste.
> They seem to have a distinct 50’s Cool Jazz flavor,I hope SAS expands these and ventures into the 60’s and the 70’s sound wise,more growls,honks etc…..
> I’d prefer these if they could get more into a hard bop or post bop sound as imo it would make these work with more genres like R&B,Funk,Rock as well as Jazz.
> But it is a huge step forward & they do sound GREAT!


This is true


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## jimjazzuk (May 8, 2021)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Let's gooo



Sounds much better than the trumpet in my opinion... the test is always how well it can play swing quavers convincingly


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (May 8, 2021)

I agree with @kgdrum : adding the edgier sound of hard bop (I  hard bop!) would make it even better (if not absolutely perfect) especially coupled with your technology.

Is the trombone the next step? I would love a nice trombone!! I have the perfect piece for it. 

Edit: Haha! I first wrote "hard pop"...  Time for coffee #2 !


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## doctoremmet (May 8, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> add the edgier sound of hard bop


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## kgdrum (May 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


>


Besides the wider dynamic range does it have necessary articulations (growls,honks,squeals etc……) that would give this library more versatility?
As much as I like this conceptually it seems like it’s specifically aimed at 50’s cool jazz like the Trumpet.
@StraightAheadSamples
Can we have a bit more of an edge with these, with a bit of aggression with some dirt and funk mixed in?

Thanks 😊


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## Simon Lee (May 8, 2021)

It would be great if we could hear something like Spain or Donna Lee as a demo


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## Stringtree (May 8, 2021)

Oh gosh, yeah, ok. Yes, please.

If this can do "Shine On, You Crazy Diamond" as well, I'm pretty much done looking for virtual saxophones.


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## doctoremmet (May 8, 2021)

I need this to compare it to my Xsample Contemporary Saxophones. 2021 seems to be a good year for sampled saxes.


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## rrichard63 (May 8, 2021)

Is there any chance that the edgier, more agressive tone for bop and funk should be separate instruments rather than expanded versions of Birth of the Trumpet and Tenor Colossus?


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## Saxer (May 8, 2021)

This sounds really great!


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## MtB1 (May 9, 2021)

I hope they are giving more information soon. It sounds very promising. I would like to see (and hear) how it compares to Audiomodeling's saxes.


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## BezO (May 10, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Is there any chance that the edgier, more agressive tone for bop and funk should be separate instruments rather than expanded versions of Birth of the Trumpet and Tenor Colossus?


I'd want the versatility in a single instrument.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (May 10, 2021)

Loyalty discounts! This is good news!


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## filipjonathan (May 10, 2021)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Let's gooo



This is ridiculous.... How is this samples???????


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2021)

filipjonathan said:


> This is ridiculous.... How is this samples???????


It is indeed ridiculous... As a means of waiting therapy I was just watching @ChrisSiuMusic review of Birth of the Trumpet. These and Piano in Blue... what more could one want


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## ChrisSiuMusic (May 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> It is indeed ridiculous... As a means of waiting therapy I was just watching @ChrisSiuMusic review of Birth of the Trumpet. These and Piano in Blue... what more could one want


Simply incredible instruments we have available to us nowadays. Can't wait for this baby!


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2021)

Just received an announcement (“soon”) in my email. Clicked. No pricing yet. Scrolled down. This looks... promising for dimwits? 😂


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## jimjazzuk (May 11, 2021)

I hope they will do alto sax and trombone too... still looking for libraries that can do big band convincingly


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## MohaJ (May 15, 2021)

0:29 😱


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## Pianolando (May 16, 2021)

This does indeed sound orders of magnitude better than any sampled or modeled Sax in history. TC could fool me on most, if not all of these phrases and I’ve spent a huge part of my life playing and studying jazz. The phrase Game Changer is used way too much by developers when the reality is that there’s been little to no innovation for years in the sampling game, but this is a Game Changer if I ever saw one.


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## Bollen (May 17, 2021)

Pianolando said:


> This does indeed sound orders of magnitude better than any sampled or modeled Sax in history. TC could fool me on most, if not all of these phrases and I’ve spent a huge part of my life playing and studying jazz. The phrase Game Changer is used way too much by developers when the reality is that there’s been little to no innovation for years in the sampling game, but this is a Game Changer if I ever saw one.


Agreed.... Though speaking as a tenor player myself there's still something odd about the legato....


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## artomatic (May 17, 2021)

Hoping to hear a long sustain patch example.


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## PerryD (May 17, 2021)

I understand not wanting an exact centered pitch for enhanced realism. Is it variable / controllable?


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## mojamusic (May 17, 2021)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Let's gooo



Where's the guitar from from? This tune is phenomenal!


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (May 20, 2021)

Does it make any sense to think about controlling it (or the trumpet) with an Akai EWI ?


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## Bollen (May 20, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Does it make any sense to think about controlling it (or the trumpet) with an Akai EWI ?


I doubt it, since it very reliant on being behind by 4 beats... Without the smart delay it doesn't sound very good..


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (May 20, 2021)

Bollen said:


> I doubt it, since it very reliant on being behind by 4 beats... Without the smart delay it doesn't sound very good..


That's what I thought but I guess it could help with the expressivity anyway, taking care of some CCs at least.  I'll have to try it. Now EWI-curious...


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## Nic De Houwer (May 24, 2021)

I suppose a breath controller would be theoretically possible, the same as playing without the smart delay on a keyboard. 
You'd still have to shove the resulting bar 4 beats upstream and activate smart delay anyway of course.


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## river angler (May 24, 2021)

God forbid I ever buy a sax library LOL! would be absolute sacrilege !


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (May 26, 2021)

Nic De Houwer said:


> I suppose a breath controller would be theoretically possible, the same as playing without the smart delay on a keyboard.
> You'd still have to shove the resulting bar 4 beats upstream and activate smart delay anyway of course.


Of course!


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## Yury Tikhomirov (May 26, 2021)

I really hope that it will be released today. Otherwise I will go and grab a real sax and in 5-years time will learn how to play it.


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## Rob (May 26, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Does it make any sense to think about controlling it (or the trumpet) with an Akai EWI ?


That's what I've been doing with the audiomodeling saxes, I think it's the most natural way to play vsti winds


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## Garlu (May 27, 2021)

Can't wait for the bundle to be released! Sounds great!


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## Bollen (May 27, 2021)

Yury Tikhomirov said:


> I really hope that it will be released today. Otherwise I will go and grab a real sax and in 5-years time will learn how to play it.


5 years...??? Ha! You wish....


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## BillBo (May 28, 2021)

Does anyone know if pitch bend will work on Tenor Colossus? I can't seem to get pitch bend to work in 'Birth of the Trumpet' so I don't know if it is supposed to do that. I am eager for TC to be released Monday!


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## soulofsound (May 28, 2021)

BillBo said:


> Does anyone know if pitch bend will work on Tenor Colossus? I can't seem to get pitch bend to work in 'Birth of the Trumpet' so I don't know if it is supposed to do that. I am eager for TC to be released Monday!


In the youtube video it shows cc-programmed bending.


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## BillBo (May 28, 2021)

soulofsound said:


> In the youtube video it shows cc-programmed bending.


Thanks for your response soulofsound. Oh I somehow must not have paid close enough attention, I see what you mean. Not the traditional pitch bend wheel, hmm, I'll have to play with it to see how it is.


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## soulofsound (May 28, 2021)

BillBo said:


> Thanks for your response soulofsound. Oh I somehow must not have paid close enough attention, I see what you mean. Not the traditional pitch bend wheel, hmm, I'll have to play with it to see how it is.


I am sorry. I think i am wrong here. It seems the bending is only keyswitches. No cc involved. Must have been wishful thinking that clouded my perception.


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## BillBo (May 28, 2021)

Yes I see. With the StraightAhead Upright virtual Bass I can bend a string on my guitar (using MG2) and the virtual bass sample bends as if the acoustic bass bends, but with the SA!Trumpet it doesn't do that. I guess it's in the way they recorded the samples. The audiomodeling Sax does the bend thing, but I still want Tenor Colossus.  Thanks again.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (May 28, 2021)

soulofsound said:


> I am sorry. I think i am wrong here. It seems the bending is only keyswitches. No cc involved. Must have been wishful thinking that clouded my perception.


Thanks for clarifying. I also was wondering the same thing. I was looking all over the manual (ok, all 18 pages of it ) and could not find any reference to CCs. I thought I had missed something.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (May 31, 2021)

It's out.


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## mojamusic (May 31, 2021)

I bought the bundle! My first impressions is that is sounds good... but the legato feels a little weak. I think if the sustain pedal could be used to slur notes it might help, but as of now the sustain has no effect on the instrument.

The key switches are comprehensive but not sure how musical they are. I also need to understand how to use the smart delay feature. It wasn't as intuitive as I thought.

I'm gonna spend some time with both this week.


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## BlackDorito (May 31, 2021)

Maybe someone has already brought this up but ... it would be good to get some user impressions of Tenor Colossus versus the tenor sax in the intriguing new release from Insanity Samples (99 BP):









The Cool Jazz Collection


The COOL JAZZ COLLECTION is a specially curated library of 5 instruments designed to embody the cool jazz idiom. With a Miles Davis / Chet Baker style and feel. Perfect for moody, brooding noir style ‘cool’ jazz. A sub-genre that has yet to be properly explored in the sample world, until now. A...




insanitysamples.com


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## Bollen (Jun 1, 2021)

BlackDorito said:


> Maybe someone has already brought this up but ... it would be good to get some user impressions of Tenor Colossus versus the tenor sax in the intriguing new release from Insanity Samples (99 BP):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ouch! Sounds painful, especially the sax...


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## soulofsound (Jun 1, 2021)

mojamusic said:


> I bought the bundle! My first impressions is that is sounds good... but the legato feels a little weak. I think if the sustain pedal could be used to slur notes it might help, but as of now the sustain has no effect on the instrument.
> 
> The key switches are comprehensive but not sure how musical they are. I also need to understand how to use the smart delay feature. It wasn't as intuitive as I thought.
> 
> I'm gonna send some time with both this week.


I think the library is exceptionally intuitive. I feared I would have to use a lot of keyswitches, but i don't. Legato sounds great. Then when finished, I dialed in the processing delay and it sounds magnificent. It really is beyond any sax library i have ever used. Really happy with it.
Note that i am only interested in a sweet and sensual Stan Getz sound like this one: 
For that kind of sound it shines.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 1, 2021)

BlackDorito said:


> Maybe someone has already brought this up but ... it would be good to get some user impressions of Tenor Colossus versus the tenor sax in the intriguing new release from Insanity Samples (99 BP):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Impression: no need to compare. Colossus is WAY out of that league. Sorry.


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## Rob (Jun 2, 2021)

And how does it compare to AM tenor?


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## NYC Composer (Jun 2, 2021)

Rob said:


> And how does it compare to AM tenor?


Were you impressed by the demos, Rob?


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## Rob (Jun 2, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> Were you impressed by the demos, Rob?


honestly, not much...


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## NYC Composer (Jun 2, 2021)

Rob said:


> honestly, not much...


Yeah, so far not dragging me away from SM/AM......


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## Rob (Jun 2, 2021)

NYC Composer said:


> Yeah, so far not dragging me away from SM/AM......


I think it has an edge on timbre, greater variety of tone, but as far as phrasing goes haven't yet heard anything really convincing. But it's too early, hopefully some good user (jazz savvy) will post examples that will change my mind


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Jun 2, 2021)

I found a midi file of All Blues on my computer, so I stuck in two instances of Colossus, BOT, and SA Samples Drums and Bass. I didn't mess with the midi at all except to connect the notes a bit to aid with the legato for the Smart Delay (just to see what it would come up with). You can hear that Colossus and BoT get choked up a bit with some of the quicker short notes, but I'm sure that could be fixed with a little messing around.

While I'm sure many people would be interested in dry stuff, I actually wanted to hear what these sounded like with some reverb (7th Heaven), tape emulation (Uhe Satin), and some RC-20, so that's what I did. This was literally 15 minutes of work, so take it with a grain of salt. Maybe this will be helpful to someone, if not, I'm sure other people can put up some other examples that might be more helpful.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to trying these out in some more of my own projects!

Also, FYI, these bring my computer to it knees and I'm on a 2018 iMac Pro. I have to bounce to audio.


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## Toecutter (Jun 2, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> View attachment 51061
> 
> I found a midi file of All Blues on my computer, so I stuck in two instances of Colossus, BOT, and SA Samples Drums and Bass. I didn't mess with the midi at all except to connect the notes a bit to aid with the legato for the Smart Delay (just to see what it would come up with). You can hear that Colossus and BoT get choked up a bit with some of the quicker short notes, but I'm sure that could be fixed with a little messing around.
> 
> ...


Thanks dt, it would be nice to hear another take with the vibrato dialed down.


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## pipedr (Jun 2, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> View attachment 51061
> 
> I found a midi file of All Blues on my computer, so I stuck in two instances of Colossus, BOT, and SA Samples Drums and Bass. I didn't mess with the midi at all except to connect the notes a bit to aid with the legato for the Smart Delay (just to see what it would come up with). You can hear that Colossus and BoT get choked up a bit with some of the quicker short notes, but I'm sure that could be fixed with a little messing around.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post. Sounds like you have the same issue with Birth of the Trumpet that I have, which is that the sustained notes are too warbly to be useful (the solo sounds great when it keeps to short notes, but the head is very unnatural in this example, imho). Has anyone found a way to change the Birth of the Trumpet sustained samples to non-vibrato?


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 2, 2021)

Yesterday I found a great jazz midi library site:
*www.thejazzpage.de*
I downloaded "A Night in Tunisia" quartet file and threw BoP on the leading trumpet in it's default legato art., AD2 on drums, CinePiano and UJAM Mellow on bass. Frankly, I was flabbergasted of both how good the midi file was and what BoP is capable of in its default settings. 

Here's the result with a bit of mixing:








A Night in Tunisia (BoP).wav


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 2, 2021)

pipedr said:


> Thanks for the post. Sounds like you have the same issue with Birth of the Trumpet that I have, which is that the sustained notes are too warbly to be useful (the solo sounds great when it keeps to short notes, but the head is very unnatural in this example, imho). Has anyone found a way to change the Birth of the Trumpet sustained samples to non-vibrato?


There's a vibrato intensity slider in the "Control" tab.


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## Rob (Jun 2, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Yesterday I found a great jazz midi library site:
> *www.thejazzpage.de*
> I downloaded "A Night in Tunisia" quartet file and threw BoP on the leading trumpet in it's default legato art., AD2 on drums, CinePiano and UJAM Mellow on bass. Frankly, I was flabbergasted of both how good the midi file was and what BoP is capable of in its default settings.
> 
> ...


not bad, but tempo is way too slow... should be almost twice as fast


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 2, 2021)

Rob said:


> not bad, but tempo is way too slow... should be almost twice as fast


You're right. Here it is at 180bpm:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1qdx8lpxamkslv/A%20Night%20in%20Tunisia%20%28BoP%29%20180bpm.wav?dl=0
To me, trumpet sounds more convincing this way, piano and drums - not so much.
EDIT: I feel now, tempo should change between parts.


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## Rob (Jun 2, 2021)

yes much better... the drums are not your fault, they've been badly programmed. As for changing tempo, some play the A sections in slow 12/8 and go double speed swing in the B... piano is okish


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## bill5 (Jun 2, 2021)

soulofsound said:


> I am sorry. I think i am wrong here. It seems the bending is only keyswitches. No cc involved. Must have been wishful thinking that clouded my perception.


Disappointing. Odd omission IMO. I like what I hear but I don't think it's sooo amazing as some do. Definitely if you don't have a quality sax yet it should be on the short list though. It is at least on my radar.


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## MohaJ (Jun 2, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Yesterday I found a great jazz midi library site:
> *www.thejazzpage.de*
> I downloaded "A Night in Tunisia" quartet file and threw BoP on the leading trumpet in it's default legato art., AD2 on drums, CinePiano and UJAM Mellow on bass. Frankly, I was flabbergasted of both how good the midi file was and what BoP is capable of in its default settings.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the site and for the demo. Sound's way better at 180 bpm!

I sow " Naima" from Coltrane on *www.thejazzpage.de *
Can you or someone else, try Tenor Colossus on this tune plz?!


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Jun 2, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Thanks dt, it would be nice to hear another take with the vibrato dialed down.


Will see what I can do later, and hopefully also figure out what went wrong with those cut notes.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Jun 2, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> You're right. Here it is at 180bpm:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1qdx8lpxamkslv/A%20Night%20in%20Tunisia%20%28BoP%29%20180bpm.wav?dl=0
> To me, trumpet sounds more convincing this way, piano and drums - not so much.
> EDIT: I feel now, tempo should change between parts.


For reference, where do you have the vibrato slider set?


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## BlackDorito (Jun 2, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> You're right. Here it is at 180bpm:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1qdx8lpxamkslv/A%20Night%20in%20Tunisia%20%28BoP%29%20180bpm.wav?dl=0
> To me, trumpet sounds more convincing this way, piano and drums - not so much.
> EDIT: I feel now, tempo should change between parts.


That's pretty nice - TheJazzPage indeed has some good MIDI files. I think Clifford Brown would've held some of the notes a little longer at the end of the phrases .. maybe that's where you cleared out the vibrato. I've got BoT but haven't played with it yet .. definitely want to give it a spin.


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## pipedr (Jun 2, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> There's a vibrato intensity slider in the "Control" tab.


This is an example of what I get with Birth of the Trumpet with vibrato amount set to zero. It still sounds like there's a warbly vibrato? Is this what others get? (Sorry for hijacking Tenor Colossus thread with this question).


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Jun 3, 2021)

OK, here's the track I posted before with the vibrato sliders down all the way for BoT and both instances of Colossus. I also did some quick surgery on those bum midi notes (but may not have gotten them all). Anyway, quick & dirty, but here you go. I should have left everything else exactly the same, but I tweaked a few other things while I was fixing the midi notes. Nothing drastic though.


And the original for reference with the vibrato sliders at the default setting.


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## Robin (Jun 3, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> OK, here's the track I posted before with the vibrato sliders down all the way for BoT and both instances of Colossus. I also did some quick surgery on those bum midi notes (but may not have gotten them all). Anyway, quick & dirty, but here you go. I should have left everything else exactly the same, but I tweaked a few other things while I was fixing the midi notes. Nothing drastic though.
> 
> View attachment 51135
> 
> ...


This is definitely not how these instruments sound on my end. There's still this fluttery vibrato going on in your demo. Are you sure you posted the right files?

PS: are you using some "vintage processing" that might be causing these problems?


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## Rob (Jun 3, 2021)

as a jazz player, I better keep from commenting...


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Jun 3, 2021)

Robin said:


> This is definitely not how these instruments sound on my end. There's still this fluttery vibrato going on in your demo. Are you sure you posted the right files?
> 
> PS: are you using some "vintage processing" that might be causing these problems?


I’ll check that. Could be.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Jun 3, 2021)

Fixed I think (maybe?). Try this.

View attachment ALL BLUES (DEMO) Take 3.mp3


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## Rob (Jun 3, 2021)

tone of the trumpet is very nice though...


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## Toecutter (Jun 3, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Fixed I think (maybe?). Try this.
> 
> View attachment ALL BLUES (DEMO) Take 3.mp3


The wobbly vibrato is much better  but copy+paste midi rarely works by itself. Now comes the fun part, gotta work on the dynamics, phrasing, give life to the performance, you could try to perform every line manually... this is a nice track to dig into the library.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Jun 3, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> The wobbly vibrato is much better  but copy+paste midi rarely works by itself. Now comes the fun part, gotta work on the dynamics, phrasing, give life to the performance, you could try to perform every line manually... this is a nice track to dig into the library.


Haha. Yeah, not a project I want to take on now. But, I do intend to dig into these more for other things. I might try a few lines though!


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 3, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> For reference, where do you have the vibrato slider set?


Default - I didn't touch it. But the tempo is high so vibrato is hard to discern.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 3, 2021)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Fixed I think (maybe?). Try this.
> 
> View attachment ALL BLUES (DEMO) Take 3.mp3


I dusted off the CD and the most noticeable thing for me is that the main theme has been played much softer in the original. I can't say with certainty, BoP can go that low in dynamics.


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## jimjazzuk (Jun 3, 2021)

Any jazzers had chance to try this out yet? Keen to hear what it sounds like


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 3, 2021)

MohaJ said:


> Thanks for the site and for the demo. Sound's way better at 180 bpm!
> 
> I sow " Naima" from Coltrane on *www.thejazzpage.de *
> Can you or someone else, try Tenor Colossus on this tune plz?!


Naima midi file is tricky - drums mapping is not standard and there's a guitar, but here's what I was able to do in a hurry:








Naima95.wav


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com





Again, I feel like TC is the best sounding thing in the whole shebang. I put a healthy dose of reverb (VSR24) on the sax.

The author of the original midi file left a note inside:
"_This sequence was made in less than 5 minutes using a NORTON MUSIC USER STYLE DISK and/or a NORTON MUSIC FAKE DISK with Band-In-A-Box. For a FREE catalog contact:NORTON MUSIC, Box13149, Ft. Pierce, FL 34979 USA Fax/Voicemail 561-467-2420 E-Mail, [email protected]. Please distribute this sequence freely but keep this message attached. Thank you._"


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## MohaJ (Jun 3, 2021)

Thank you


ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Naima midi file is tricky - drums mapping is not standard and there's a guitar, but here's what I was able to do in a hurry:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for doing that! What a strange version... but TC seems to do a good job here. Is it possible for you to hear TC alone please?
Like this we will really here every subtility.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 3, 2021)

MohaJ said:


> Thank you
> 
> Thank you for doing that! What a strange version... but TC seems to do a good job here. Is it possible for you to hear TC alone please?
> Like this we will really here every subtility.


Here you go - solo dry sax:








Naima95 solo sax (no reverb).wav


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 3, 2021)

I just noticed, in "Naima95" track I wasn't using the dynamics from the file (coded with velocity) and Kontakt dynamics were set to its lowest position. So when I set TC to the velocity mode the change was drastic and to the worse - that's when "multo vibrato" emerged.
For context, I did use dynamics in "A Night in Tunisia" track (BoT).


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## Bollen (Jun 3, 2021)

pipedr said:


> This is an example of what I get with Birth of the Trumpet with vibrato amount set to zero. It still sounds like there's a warbly vibrato? Is this what others get? (Sorry for hijacking Tenor Colossus thread with this question).


I think that's the most realistic sample library I've ever heard! Sounds just like when players are knackered and their embouchures are giving up...


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## Bollen (Jun 3, 2021)

jimjazzuk said:


> Any jazzers had chance to try this out yet? Keen to hear what it sounds like


Loved to, but I can't afford it at the moment...


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## MohaJ (Jun 3, 2021)

hope they're gonna make a walktrough soon....


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## Rob (Jun 3, 2021)

here's a quickly done backing track of the melody, and a midi of the sax... dinamics are cc11.
Don't have the library otherwise I'd have loved to try
View attachment Naima.mp3


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 3, 2021)

Rob said:


> here's a quickly done backing track of the melody, and a midi of the sax... dinamics are cc11.
> Don't have the library otherwise I'd have loved to try
> View attachment Naima.mp3


What's the tempo and where the sax track should start?


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## Rob (Jun 3, 2021)

tempo is 66 to the quarter note, sax start immediately, it's a very concise version


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 3, 2021)

Rob said:


> tempo is 66 to the quarter note, sax start immediately, it's a very concise version


I can't find expression control in TC, so I'm currently looking for a way to translate CC11 into volume automation in Reaper (while negating 4 beats delay).


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## Rob (Jun 3, 2021)

are you sure it's a good idea to use cc7? That I think would just alter the volume and not the expression of the instrument, unless that's how this instrument works...


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 3, 2021)

Rob said:


> are you sure it's a good idea to use cc7? That I think would just alter the volume and not the expression of the instrument, unless that's how this instrument works...


To my shame, I always thought expression was controlled by CC11 and not CC7. Anyway, I'll upload both versions shortly.


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## Rob (Jun 3, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> To my shame, I always thought expression was controlled by CC11 and not CC7. Anyway, I'll upload both versions shortly.


That's what I'd have thought too


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 3, 2021)

Here's two versions:
1)CC1Dyn CC11Exp - CC1 controls Dynamics, CC11 controls Kontakt output volume (that took time wading through reaper modulation).
2)CC11Dyn - CC11 controls dynamics, Kontakt volume is constant.

Both versions have Sunset chambers on tenor; tape emu, slight compression and slight limiting on the master track. Sorry for the one bar pause in the beginning.









Naima66 CC1Dyn CC11Exp.wav


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com













Naima66 CC11Dyn.wav


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


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## Rob (Jun 3, 2021)

not bad, though I don't like how it does some of the legatos, like to the hi Eb at the beginning, timbre gets strangled... happens elsewhere too. Vibrato seems good. Of course it might be that my midi doesn't translate too well for this library, it deserves a dedicated file. This performance though gives me some hope... of the two, I like the first one better


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 3, 2021)

Keep in mind, you can control legato x-fade in TC.


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## mohsohsenshi (Jun 3, 2021)

Rob said:


> not bad, though I don't like how it does some of the legatos, like to the hi Eb at the beginning, timbre gets strangled... happens elsewhere too. Vibrato seems good. Of course it might be that my midi doesn't translate too well for this library, it deserves a dedicated file. This performance though gives me some hope... of the two, I like the first one better


The legatos can be adjusted if you slightly move the notes forward or lay them back 1 or 2 ms, or you overlap some of them, it will produce a variation of performance.
Keep doing it until you find a satisfying phrasing.


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## soulofsound (Jun 3, 2021)

Rob said:


> not bad, though I don't like how it does some of the legatos, like to the hi Eb at the beginning, timbre gets strangled... happens elsewhere too. Vibrato seems good. Of course it might be that my midi doesn't translate too well for this library, it deserves a dedicated file. This performance though gives me some hope... of the two, I like the first one better


I think CC1 is too high in those places. You can strangle a real sax too when blowing too hard suddenly.


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## MohaJ (Jun 3, 2021)

Thank you guys for this team work!
As Rob said, it diserve a dedicated file for this library. Anyway, this is promising.


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## BlackDorito (Jun 4, 2021)

This thread may be losing a little steam by now, but for those still interested, I used the Tunisia MIDI file for BoT and also Tenor Colossus (transposed down an octave). I used the out-of-box legato patches with no tweaks except turning on the Smart Delay. For the MIDI file, I applied a tenuto effect to lengthen the notes by 50% to aid in the legato feeling. Seems to me BoT sounds pretty comfortable with its part and TC perhaps needs some tweaking to articulate some of the notes (with allowances for the fact that the part was programmed for a higher register).

BoT: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mb1zcdwsdksvjsr/Tunisia BoT.mp4?dl=0

TC: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2yrxsobtvb775o/Tunisia TC.mp4?dl=0


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## kgdrum (Jun 4, 2021)

That’s🎶 *WONDERFUL*! 🎶Thanks
Much appreciated!


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 4, 2021)

BlackDorito said:


> This thread may be losing a little steam by now, but for those still interested, I used the Tunisia MIDI file for BoT and also Tenor Colossus (transposed down an octave). I used the out-of-box legato patches with no tweaks except turning on the Smart Delay. For the MIDI file, I applied a tenuto effect to lengthen the notes by 50% to aid in the legato feeling. Seems to me BoT sounds pretty comfortable with its part and TC perhaps needs some tweaking to articulate some of the notes (with allowances for the fact that the part was programmed for a higher register).
> 
> BoT: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mb1zcdwsdksvjsr/Tunisia BoT.mp4?dl=0
> 
> TC: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2yrxsobtvb775o/Tunisia TC.mp4?dl=0


Sounds like TC just can't muster this tempo - too many hiccups. BoT is much better in this context, which shouldn't be surprising. Grea job!


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## soulofsound (Jun 4, 2021)

BlackDorito said:


> This thread may be losing a little steam by now, but for those still interested, I used the Tunisia MIDI file for BoT and also Tenor Colossus (transposed down an octave). I used the out-of-box legato patches with no tweaks except turning on the Smart Delay. For the MIDI file, I applied a tenuto effect to lengthen the notes by 50% to aid in the legato feeling. Seems to me BoT sounds pretty comfortable with its part and TC perhaps needs some tweaking to articulate some of the notes (with allowances for the fact that the part was programmed for a higher register).
> 
> BoT: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mb1zcdwsdksvjsr/Tunisia BoT.mp4?dl=0
> 
> TC: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2yrxsobtvb775o/Tunisia TC.mp4?dl=0


Did you use any CC1 data on the tenor sax?


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Jun 4, 2021)

Does anyone know if there is a good midi source for Maiden Voyage available anywhere? I was listening to that last night and thinking it might suit BoT and TC well.

edit: I just noticed there is a version on the site linked earlier.


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## BlackDorito (Jun 5, 2021)

soulofsound said:


> Did you use any CC1 data on the tenor sax?


No - the MIDI file contains no CC1 messages and I had the Dynamics set to key-velocity anyway.


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## Rob (Jun 5, 2021)

the thing for me is how far you can go from this basic rendering? Can the instrument be made to follow thw player's intentions? As an example, here is a rendition of Naima done with the AM tenor. Can tenor colossus reach this level of detail? Where you tell him when and how to do vibrato, change pitch etcetera...
View attachment Naima-AM_Tenor_sax.mp3


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## mojamusic (Jun 6, 2021)

Rob said:


> the thing for me is how far you can go from this basic rendering? Can the instrument be made to follow thw player's intentions? As an example, here is a rendition of Naima done with the AM tenor. Can tenor colossus reach this level of detail? Where you tell him when and how to do vibrato, change pitch etcetera...
> View attachment Naima-AM_Tenor_sax.mp3


AM Tenor? What? Where?


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## Rob (Jun 6, 2021)

mojamusic said:


> AM Tenor? What? Where?


Audio Modeling...


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## mojamusic (Jun 6, 2021)

Rob said:


> Audio Modeling...


This is the most realistic sound I’ve heard from a library!!!! Wow!


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## bill5 (Jun 6, 2021)

I recall trying AM's sax awhile back and frankly wasn't impressed. Just shows how much diff skill using it can make. (In my brief defense, I think this was less about skill (or so I tell myself) and more that I really didn't tinker with the parameters much)


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## gzapper (Jun 6, 2021)

Rob said:


> the thing for me is how far you can go from this basic rendering? Can the instrument be made to follow thw player's intentions? As an example, here is a rendition of Naima done with the AM tenor. Can tenor colossus reach this level of detail? Where you tell him when and how to do vibrato, change pitch etcetera...
> View attachment Naima-AM_Tenor_sax.mp3


Wow, great playing and programming!
What libraries are in there besides AM?
Nice period piano and not a bad bass sound at all.
Great work.


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## mojamusic (Jun 6, 2021)

I made this with Piano in Blue, Straight Ahead! Bass, Birth of Trumpet, Tenor Colosus, Premier Samples Drum Tree


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## Rob (Jun 6, 2021)

gzapper said:


> Wow, great playing and programming!
> What libraries are in there besides AM?
> Nice period piano and not a bad bass sound at all.
> Great work.


Thank you gzapper! Piano is Austrian Grand, bass Vsl upright, drums Addictive brushes set.


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## MohaJ (Jun 7, 2021)

Rob said:


> the thing for me is how far you can go from this basic rendering? Can the instrument be made to follow thw player's intentions? As an example, here is a rendition of Naima done with the AM tenor. Can tenor colossus reach this level of detail? Where you tell him when and how to do vibrato, change pitch etcetera...
> View attachment Naima-AM_Tenor_sax.mp3


Beautifull ! 
Is it possible for you to give us the preset file that you're using for AM ?


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## MohaJ (Jun 7, 2021)

mojamusic said:


> I made this with Piano in Blue, Straight Ahead! Bass, Birth of Trumpet, Tenor Colosus, Premier Samples Drum Tree



Really nice song!


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## mojamusic (Jun 7, 2021)

MohaJ said:


> Really nice song!


Thank you MohaJ


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## AceAudioHQ (Jun 7, 2021)

I'm looking for a dirty and loud saxophone, can you get a sound out of this similar to Gary Herbig from 1min onwards or should I go swam or something else?


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## MohaJ (Jun 7, 2021)

xsubs said:


> Really nice Rob!
> I bought TC & BoT a few days ago, and find that AM sax with the TEC breath controller is much more authentic sounding. Still playing with BoT, but I think SM's Trumpet 3 with the breath controller sounds better too... so far anyway.


Have you tried Bot or TC with the breath controller?


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## mohsohsenshi (Jun 7, 2021)

MohaJ said:


> Have you tried Bot or TC with the breath controller?


 In fact, breath controller does not bring more realism to the performance once you turn on the smart delay.


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## MohaJ (Jun 7, 2021)

mohsohsenshi said:


> In fact, breath controller does not bring more realism to the performance once you turn on the smart delay.


Damn ! That's what i thought...


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## MtB1 (Jun 8, 2021)

Reading the comments here and listening to the soundfiles I am still wondering what tenor collosus what offer me. My goto saxophone library is AM and as far as I can tell it is still the most jazzy sounding one. Is there anything I am missing? 
Tenor collosus sounds really nice but AM seems to be more realistic. I do have BoT and I really like it, but I don't have another jazz brass library to compete with.


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## Drjay (Jun 10, 2021)

I am confused. Both sound okay for my ears. Given I am lazy when it comes to cc programming and the high price of the AM Sax bundle, would you think Tenor Collosus is worth getting? Or would l be better off investing time and money into the AM saxes?


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Jun 10, 2021)

Drjay said:


> I am confused. Both sound okay for my ears. Given I am lazy when it comes to cc programming and the high price of the AM Sax bundle, would you think Tenor Collosus is worth getting? Or would l be better off investing time and money into the AM saxes?


It might depend on weather you're a musician or a mere "programmer" like me.


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## Drjay (Jun 10, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> It might depend on weather you're a musician or a mere "programmer" like me.


Neither nor  Id like to play with the VSTs and hopefully get some nice sound immediately or at least with little programming effort afterwards. I am not into programming lots of parameters in parallel. Thats the reason I never bought any of the SM/AM instruments. Not sure, whether this is just a prejudice.


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## SupremeFist (Jun 10, 2021)

Rob said:


> the thing for me is how far you can go from this basic rendering? Can the instrument be made to follow thw player's intentions? As an example, here is a rendition of Naima done with the AM tenor. Can tenor colossus reach this level of detail? Where you tell him when and how to do vibrato, change pitch etcetera...
> View attachment Naima-AM_Tenor_sax.mp3


As a one-time tenor player I have to say this sounds amazing. Listening to the demos of TC by contrast I am missing the feeling of a connected, consistent breath "blowing through" the legato transitions.


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## Polkasound (Jun 10, 2021)

Drjay said:


> I am confused. Both sound okay for my ears. Given I am lazy when it comes to cc programming and the high price of the AM Sax bundle, would you think Tenor Collosus is worth getting? Or would l be better off investing time and money into the AM saxes?


I own both, and maybe my explanation will help...

I bought the Audio Modeling saxes because the limitations of samples are detrimental to an exposed, solo sax. When you need fine control over the attack, expression, decay, release, vibrato, legato, etc., there's only so much you can do with sample libraries, because you're at the mercy of the recorded samples and the scripting.

Because the AM sax is synthetic, you have full control over it. Instead of being restricted by a fixed number of samples, dynamic layers, and articulations, it uses math to create curves which give performances a completely fluid sound. But the AM saxes are not real saxes. There are no samples involved at all. There are no round robins. Realism must be molded by the user using CC data.

In a perfect VI world, a sax sample library made up of 1,000,000 samples to cover every aspect of a performance — every note, note transition, articulation, and in every dynamic — would be the best, but also an impossibility. But that's the direction the TC sax leans. Instead of using a million samples, though, it uses several thousand. So it can't do everything, but in the context of the jazz it's designed for, it's large sample pool can outshine AM saxes in two major areas...

1. It's a real sax played by a real player. Instead of creating artificial articulations, you're hearing them played for real. Over 2,000 samples were recorded per note.

2. Little to no CC programming is required. TC sax analyzes what you played and chooses the samples for you.

Even with thousands of samples, TC sax is still a sample library, so it can't do everything. For fun, I tried both TC Sax and Birth of the Trumpet on a polka, and they failed miserably. But it was an expected failure as these libraries were not created to be universally applicable to all styles of music. They're made for jazz.

So when it comes to polka and other types of music, my AM tenor sax and Sample Modeling trumpet remain king. But when I'll ever need a sax or trumpet for jazz work, my SAS libraries will be the first ones I'll reach for.


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## Mojo X (Jun 19, 2021)

I'm following this thread with great interest. I have TC and am trying to decide if I want to acquire AM sax for my jazz/big band compositions.

I did this with TC and was wondering how convincing it is.
View attachment She Stepped Out Of The Fog MP3.mp3


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## mojamusic (Jun 19, 2021)

Mojo X said:


> I'm following this thread with great interest. I have TC and am trying to decide if I want to acquire AM sax for my jazz/big band compositions.
> 
> I did this with TC and was wondering how convincing it is.
> View attachment She Stepped Out Of The Fog MP3.mp3


Sounds good to me. I always ask myself "who am I comvincing?" I bet most people outside of this forum would be more than convinced.


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## jazzman7 (Jun 19, 2021)

Mojo X said:


> I'm following this thread with great interest. I have TC and am trying to decide if I want to acquire AM sax for my jazz/big band compositions.
> 
> I did this with TC and was wondering how convincing it is.
> View attachment She Stepped Out Of The Fog MP3.mp3


Great! The long bend-up was the main point that would have given it away. The only other minor point would be to keep the trills as short as possible. Go too long and it sounds like a sample. But that would only be for those of us here who are aware, I agree. Maybe pulling the sax back in the mix here and there also. Hope this helps. Excellent!


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## jimjazzuk (Jun 19, 2021)

Mojo X said:


> I'm following this thread with great interest. I have TC and am trying to decide if I want to acquire AM sax for my jazz/big band compositions.
> 
> I did this with TC and was wondering how convincing it is.
> View attachment She Stepped Out Of The Fog MP3.mp3


Some really great bits, but some of the notes sound like they haven't triggered a legato transition, i.e. the notes sound a bit too separated?


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## Mojo X (Jun 19, 2021)

jazzman7 said:


> Great! The long bend-up was the main point that would have given it away. The only other minor point would be to keep the trills as short as possible. Go too long and it sounds like a sample. But that would only be for those of us here who are aware, I agree. Maybe pulling the sax back in the mix here and there also. Hope this helps. Excellent!


Thanks for the input. I was on the fence about the bend-up--,I took it out. It's interesting to note that the bend didn't appear until the "smart legato" kicked in.


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## BlackDorito (Jun 20, 2021)

jimjazzuk said:


> Some really great bits, but some of the notes sound like they haven't triggered a legato transition, i.e. the notes sound a bit too separated?


This was the main thing that struck me ... maybe lengthening those few notes would cause the legato to kick in. All in all, it sounded very convincing in your nice setting.


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## sumskilz (Jul 17, 2021)

I would have bought both this sax and the trumpet already except that they both sound really compressed. I've noticed others commenting about the lack of dynamic range. I hear the timbre differences of a relatively broad dynamic range, but they aren't accompanied by natural differences in relative volume. I'm hoping that is something that can and will be fixed. I supposed that depends on whether or not the compression happened during the recording process or whether it has something to do with the scripting.


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## Werty (Oct 25, 2021)

I'm late to the party, this sax sounds amazing.


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## Dan Radclyffe (Dec 21, 2021)

I bought all three of these instruments recently and I’m not getting the same instant results with tenor colossus compared to the other two (with smart delay engaged).

Having notes jump out in the middle of legato lines for example. Adjust velocity doesn’t do anything.

If anyone has experienced the same thing and has any tips I’m interested to hear...


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## Dan Radclyffe (Dec 21, 2021)

Dan Radclyffe said:


> I bought all three of these instruments recently and I’m not getting the same instant results with tenor colossus compared to the other two (with smart delay engaged).
> 
> Having notes jump out in the middle of legato lines for example. Adjusting velocity doesn’t do anything. I think it might be the ‘swing accent’ that is specific to smart delay.
> 
> If anyone has experienced the same thing and has any tips I’m interested to hear... I guess I can always render the audio and swap in another phrase tweaked with keyswitches etc


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## sumskilz (Dec 21, 2021)

Dan Radclyffe said:


> I bought all three of these instruments recently and I’m not getting the same instant results with tenor colossus compared to the other two (with smart delay engaged).
> 
> Having notes jump out in the middle of legato lines for example. Adjust velocity doesn’t do anything.
> 
> If anyone has experienced the same thing and has any tips I’m interested to hear...


Try increasing the amount of overlap by extending the end of the preceding note. That sometimes works.


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