# Is this too much Hans Zimmer steal?



## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 25, 2018)

Hi!
I generally don't think I steal a great deal but those 2 ideas I'm having in my ideas folder are really, really, really close to original pieces by Hans Zimmer.

Those are quick and dirty sketches, it's just to give you an idea of the melodies.

http://picosong.com/wkXMt/ (Interstellar)

http://picosong.com/wkX7C/ (Inferno/Da Vinci Code/Angels and Demons)
(sorry, the horns and the choir are dropping out here and there - weird.)

The thing is, I wonder whether I can send this to a publisher. Is it just a sound-alike or "inspired by" or am I'm straight up stealing? 
Otherwise I would just do them for myself at some point, put them on soundcloud and call them "tributes".


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## rottoy (Feb 25, 2018)

You might get into trouble with that second one. That's a bit too close IMO.


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## mac (Feb 25, 2018)

The second one...I think you already know in your own heart whether that's a bit close! It's a pity because if you could switch up the first couple of bars a bit, it'd be a great piece in it's own right. The first track sounds fine to me.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 25, 2018)

mac said:


> The second one...I think you already know in your own heart whether that's a bit close! It's a pity because if you could switch up the first couple of bars a bit, it'd be a great piece in it's own right. The first track sounds fine to me.


I'm actually gonna try that. Yea, the first part is really to close - what comes afterwards seems kinda OK, right? I really should change it up because I even plan to introduce short string arpeggios.  There we would land totally in copy-cat land. I mean, I could still do the original one - just for fun, without sending it to any publishers.


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## mouse (Feb 25, 2018)

Asking if your track is too close to Hans Zimmer's track...on a forum that Hans regularly visits, seems pretty ballsy


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 25, 2018)

mouse said:


> Asking if your track is too close to Hans Zimmer's track...on a forum that Hans regularly visits, seems pretty ballsy


Why? In theory, if he would react - wouldn't it be practical if I would get green or red light directly from the composer?


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## mouse (Feb 25, 2018)

DarkestShadow said:


> Why? In theory, if he would react - wouldn't it be practical if I would get green or red light directly from the composer?



Because you're essentially trying to avoid copyright infringement by skirting right on the border of it, writing a track to sound as close to a Hans Zimmer cue as possible. You're doing so within earshot of the original composer. You're proving proof for the copyright lawsuit by posting about it on the same forum that Hans visits.

Not saying that will ever happen and I'm sure Hans doesn't mind, it just seems a little...risky.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 25, 2018)

mouse said:


> Because you're essentially trying to avoid copyright infringement by skirting right on the border of it, writing a track to sound as close to a Hans Zimmer cue as possible. You're doing so within earshot of the original composer. You're proving proof for the copyright lawsuit by posting about it on the same forum that Hans visits.
> 
> Not saying that will ever happen and I'm sure Hans doesn't mind, it just seems a little...risky.


I have no idea what what you mean with copyright lawsuites, that I'm providing proof and hwo risky it is to post in the same forum...
I am, just like many others a huge HZ fan and am very inspired by his work - sometimes too much. And that may be the case in this case and I wasn't confortable doing the tracks for any labels because they sounded to similar, so I thought I ask in this forum. The take away till here seems to be that the first one is OK and that I should rewrite the second one. 
That's all I know.


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## mouse (Feb 25, 2018)

Righto.


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## Saxer (Feb 25, 2018)

Man of steal


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## NoamL (Feb 25, 2018)

Saxer said:


> Man of steal



A League Of Definitely Not Their Own


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 25, 2018)

DarkestShadow said:


> Hi!
> I generally don't think I steal a great deal but those 2 ideas I'm having in my ideas folder are really, really, really close to original pieces by Hans Zimmer.
> 
> Those are quick and dirty sketches, it's just to give you an idea of the melodies.
> ...



You can ask HZ if he is ok with your music and his word will make you feel probably more confident for more of these tracks, as I think you are doing a truely good job here. You are a big HZ Fan as I would say so too and so I think he always appreciates that. It is all good.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 25, 2018)

Saxer said:


> *Man* of steal


Hey! I'm genderless! I identify as a composer! I do not submit to the socially constructed, deeply engrained norms of strictly confined gender expectations! Help - sjw's, where are you when I need you??


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 25, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> You can ask HZ if he is ok with your music and his word will make you feel probably more confident for more of these tracks, as I think you are doing a truely good job here. You are a big HZ Fan as I would say so too and so I think he always appreciates that. It is all good.


Vielen dank! 
Hm... feels kinda weird to text Hans... maybe he reacts here... We'll see. I can always write them anyway, it's more about the fact that I'm working for some production/trailer-music companies and whether I should withhold those tracks. so far it seems like the first one is OK, the second one would need some rewriting.


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## Greg (Feb 25, 2018)

I think you think they are too close. If it makes you uncomfortable, it's not worth the worry. Focus on what is really driving Hans' music. The inspiration, emotion, dynamics, and cinematic sound. If you keep all that in mind when you compose, you will eventually find your own powerful melodies.


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## zolhof (Feb 25, 2018)

Even though rctec is the nicest guy, I remember him saying he doesn’t listen to unsolicited material, due to legal reasons.

At least you have some great ears here to aid you.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 25, 2018)

zolhof said:


> Even though rctec is the nicest guy, I remember him saying he doesn’t listen to unsolicited material, due to legal reasons.
> 
> At least you have some great ears here to aid you.


Haha, Daniel James said something similar at some point. Interesting... In regards to streaming though.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 25, 2018)

Greg said:


> I think you think they are too close. If it makes you uncomfortable, it's not worth the worry. Focus on what is really driving Hans' music. The inspiration, emotion, dynamics, and cinematic sound. If you keep all that in mind when you compose, you will eventually find your own powerful melodies.


Well, as long as I don't send them to publishers it's indeed not worth the worry. 

I generally try to not think at all, or get into any kind of modus... flow - the key to wonder... Generally I don't write a lot that I strikes me as copycats, but those two just gave me to think.


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## Rctec (Feb 25, 2018)

The first one is totally safe, I would say. In fact, other than the dodgy programming at the beginning (is there an out of time bit?), I rather liked it.
The second one is too damn close. It’s not about the first two bars, it’s about it being the same motive... and it’s not me who’ll go after you - i couldn’t really care less - but the film makers and the studio that paid for it....

But, thanks for being up front and asking! That actually means a lot...
-Hz-


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 26, 2018)

Rctec said:


> The first one is totally safe, I would say. In fact, other than the dodgy programming at the beginning (is there an out of time bit?), I rather liked it.
> The second one is too damn close. It’s not about the first two bars, it’s about it being the same motive... and it’s not me who’ll go after you - i couldn’t really care less - but the film makers and the studio that paid for it....
> 
> But, thanks for being up front and asking! That actually means a lot...
> -Hz-


Thank you so much listening and answering!

aaah... yea, the programming is dodgy as hell - I just sketched them down quickly (20 minutes or so) to give an idea of what I would do when really writing.

Thank you again Hans! 
I'm wishing all the best for you and what ever you are working on...


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 26, 2018)

DarkestShadow said:


> Vielen dank!
> Hm... feels kinda weird to text Hans... maybe he reacts here... We'll see. I can always write them anyway, it's more about the fact that I'm working for some production/trailer-music companies and whether I should withhold those tracks. so far it seems like the first one is OK, the second one would need some rewriting.



Look, even HZ himself answered, isnt´that great?  Now you know you don´t need to worry so much. Just do what you like and learn from the greats.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 26, 2018)

Is there such a thing as too much Hans Zimmer steal?


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 27, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Is there such a thing as too much Hans Zimmer steal?


When you plan to send your music to serious publishers I guess so...


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## MatFluor (Feb 27, 2018)

A "go" or "no go" form the composer itself doesn't mean too much in film music 

Extremely depending on the specific contract - the composer doesn't own the music - so you wouldn't get sued by him, but by e.g. Warner Bros. as he himself said


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 27, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> A "go" or "no go" form the composer itself doesn't mean too much in film music
> 
> Extremely depending on the specific contract - the composer doesn't own the music - so you wouldn't get sued by him, but by e.g. Warner Bros. as he himself said


Yea, but I think it's the very best thing you can get since he obviously undestands his own music the best.


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## MatFluor (Feb 27, 2018)

Yeah, that's true. But if he thinks it's "not close enough to be dangerous", it doesn't mean the producers think the same. Of course, he knows the producers and can tell you how dangerous your terrain is aka how likely the producers would sue you over it (if it's even worth the hassle). And "The composer said it's ok" is not viable before court :-D OF course, Mr. Z has a different weight with producers than some other guy, but still.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Feb 27, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> Yeah, that's true. But if he thinks it's "not close enough to be dangerous", it doesn't mean the producers think the same. Of course, he knows the producers and can tell you how dangerous your terrain is aka how likely the producers would sue you over it (if it's even worth the hassle). And "The composer said it's ok" is not viable before court :-D OF course, Mr. Z has a different weight with producers than some other guy, but still.


Yea, I can't really imagine they would bother - otherwise there would have been countless lawsuites against library music composers ripping Pirates of The Carribian for their "original" adventure scores.

It's sure not a guarantee but all the people that commented so far and most importantly Hans himself doesn't think the first one is dangerous I'll just go for it.


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