# Is the US becoming a police state?



## Udo (Aug 8, 2013)

http://lavabit.com (read the notice). The service was used by Snowden.

It's the 1st ISP I've heard of that chose to shut down rather than comply with a court order they felt violated the constitution. Secrecy restrictions that prevent publication of what the NSA exactly demands from ISPs remain in force. Yahoo has sued for the disclosure of some of those court orders.


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## choc0thrax (Aug 8, 2013)

No. You can't become something you already are and have been for a long time.

A police state has its advantages though: If your job's got you down and you're just feeling kinda bored... listless? Well, a simple Google search for pressure cookers is an instant invitation to the exciting and za-any world of battering rams, German Shepherds, and unintelligible shouting! What? Not convinced? Bonus prizes for answering questions correctly during the lightning round include you not disappearing... and much much more!


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## G.R. Baumann (Aug 9, 2013)

Wow!



> I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States.



Frankly I am not surprised at all about the NSA and other international black hat revelations after I came across this article in March last year.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/

Sometimes it is very interesting to reel back in the years. I remember when I purchased and read a copy of this here:

http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi...bv.50500085,d.ZWU#search="global 2000 report"


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## Udo (Aug 9, 2013)

Didn't want to make the subject title too provocative. :wink: 

Things have been going the wrong way in many areas for decades. Serious internal turmoil is not far away, unless there are some drastic changes ....

... and then there's of course the extremely high gun ownership ....


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## G.R. Baumann (Aug 9, 2013)

A useful report for a better understanding what we are up to:



> A Global Forecast for the Next Forty Years



http://www.clubofrome.org/?p=703


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## Udo (Aug 9, 2013)

G.R. Baumann @ Fri Aug 09 said:


> A useful report for a better understanding what we are up to:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That, like everything else published to date (as far as I'm aware), seems to overlook a significant threat; inability by the US to deal with, and accept, its decline as a world power.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 9, 2013)

When you have a policy that is mostly attacked by those on the extreme left and those on the extreme right, you are probably roughly where you should be. Dialog about policy is healthy and I suspect some changes will come but to say the US is a police state is pure hyperbole.

And while it galls others from other countries to hear it, really, in terms of military and economic power there are only two dominant powers, the US and China. And even as the US declines , it is still way too far ahead of everyone else for the balance to shift much.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 9, 2013)

Udo @ Fri Aug 09 said:


> G.R. Baumann @ Fri Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> > A useful report for a better understanding what we are up to:
> ...



....and who does that threaten, exactly?

The U.S., whether in decline or not (Fareed Zakaria's theory of "the Rise of the Others" might be applicable there) is an incredibly complex society with many diverse elements. It is, I believe, the least heterogenous of Western societies and the largest, unless you count the fractious European union as a single entity, the grumbly dissolution of which will be instructive to watch. I mean, a few European countries can't get along but you expect more from 50 American fiefdoms??

There are, in my mind, no justifications for the Iraqi incursion nor the extended presence in Afghanistan. Obama stayed in Afghanistan because of his often repeated fears about Pakistan, for all the good our time in the region has done. Afghanistan is a flat out cultural and religious mess, but comparitively without far ranging power. Obama's fears about Pakistan are justified- that's a nest of vipers with nuclear tongues, yet I really don't see the world commuity stepping up there.

All that said, if you want to look at blood spilled in the 20th century, I suggest you look to the European wars first, and Russia and China killed countless millions of their own during that period. We're a gun owning culture? Yep, and it doesn't make me happy, but the really devastating world violence of the recent past wasn't on us. Going forward, well, we'll see.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 9, 2013)

> When you have a policy that is mostly attacked by those on the extreme left and those on the extreme right, you are probably roughly where you should be.



I stopped reading there. You, sir, have the attitude of an intellectual wimp.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 9, 2013)

...which, knowing you, is not what you really are beneath that centrist facade.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 9, 2013)

As to becoming a police state, I do worry about the lack of privacy that's an inevitable part of the digital revolution. But I worry a lot more about our political/economic system being our downfall. The Repubicans are leading us down the toilet.

We are going to become a nation of gated communities and ghettos, and that's the environment in which totalitarianism breeds. It's already starting to happen at a lower level in places like Arizona (dry hate).


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## G.R. Baumann (Aug 9, 2013)

Interesting recent post by Noam Chomsky on the subject of American decline... 

http://www.alternet.org/world/chomsky-americas-imperial-power-showing-real-signs-decline?paging=off

In another article he referred to this "Failure by design" as being the corrcet term for the phenomenon. 

http://www.epi.org/publication/failure-by-design/


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 9, 2013)

Chomsky is a self-loathing Jew and I am ashamed to share an ethnic heritage with him.


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## Dave Connor (Aug 9, 2013)

The level of surveillance on the American people by it's government is exponentially beyond what it was even a decade ago. This combined with increasing government encroachment in other areas is having an effect on the American psyche. It's the nature of governing powers to accrue as much power as they can, hence the U.S. system of branches of government checking that power. National defense is always the reason of choice for an increased policing of the citizenry whether by dictators or democratic bodies. So both the Left and the Right are rightfully concerned and I'm glad for that common ground.

Most ironic though is that even when we receive intelligence from countries that have been the definition of a police state such as Russia on the Boston bombers, we put it to no good use. So the very reason for justification of this super-surveillance ends up indicting itself as to it's merits. An oversimplification but the shoe seems to fit.


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## G.R. Baumann (Aug 9, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Aug 09 said:


> Chomsky is a self-loathing Jew and I am ashamed to share an ethnic heritage with him.



I do not care about ethnic backgrounds, in my humble opinion,since decades Noam is providing political analysis on an unsurpassed scale and with a sharp and precise intellect. The world would be poorer without his analysis and lectures in deed.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 9, 2013)

Dave Connor @ Fri Aug 09 said:


> The level of surveillance on the American people by it's government is exponentially beyond what it was even a decade ago. This combined with increasing government encroachment in other areas is having an effect on the American psyche. It's the nature of governing powers to accrue as much power as they can, hence the U.S. system of branches of government checking that power.
> 
> National defense is always the reason of choice for an increased policing of the citizenry whether by dictators or democratic bodies. So both the Left and the Right are rightfully concerned and I'm glad for that common ground.
> 
> Most ironic though is that even when we receive intelligence from countries that have been the definition of a police state such as Russia on the Boston bombers, we put it to no good use. So the very reason for justification of this super-surveillance ends up indicting itself as to it's merits. An oversimplification but the shoe seems to fit.



...which mostly speaks to an inefficient, systemically broken government that seems unable to put together and police a simple no- fly list or a list of foreign nationals who coud logically be perceived as threats.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 9, 2013)

choc0thrax @ Fri Aug 09 said:


> No. You can't become something you already are and have been for a long time.
> 
> A police state has its advantages though: If your job's got you down and you're just feeling kinda bored... listless? Well, a simple Google search for pressure cookers is an instant invitation to the exciting and za-any world of battering rams, German Shepherds, and unintelligible shouting! What? Not convinced? Bonus prizes for answering questions correctly during the lightning round include you not disappearing... and much much more!



You mentioned "pressure cooker" in a public thread. Now your goose is cooked.

(WAIT- now *I* have. Damnit. This is tricky stuff.)


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## chimuelo (Aug 9, 2013)

I live in an area that is as secure as the White House itself.
Data gathering started here, software recognition and cell phone monitoring was perfected here.
When you go under their roof to try and win money all expectation of privacy is relinquished.
Since I break no laws I have no issues with this security.
But the advantage is it is privately owned, and can therefore be liable for it's actions.
Certain officials can abuse this data gathering and sell information to competitors, or gambling lists to other properties, saving them millions in marketting research.
But oddly enough those who were caught were prosecuted, unlike their Federal counterparts who are in public Unions or hide behind "National Security."

Also agree with Nick. 
Income inequality is a major issue and has widened to historical levels under the wealthy redistributors Super Majority, and current Senate heavy session where they get raises while our wages are frozen, or hours reduced, they get exempted from the Unaffordable Health Care Act, while us peasants are relegated to seeing a Doctors Physician and handed an Aspirin.

Also agree that when freako Tea Party and whacko wealthy Liberals are upset, something is probably truthful, genuine, or correct.
Funny they reign supreme from their gated communites while they try and figure out what to do with the rest of us.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 9, 2013)

G.R. Baumann @ Fri Aug 09 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Aug 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Chomsky is a self-loathing Jew and I am ashamed to share an ethnic heritage with him.
> ...



We will have to agree to disagree I suspect. He is reflexively anti-almost anything that is in Israel's' interest or the United States. If he had his way, the the US would be Argentina or Cuba.

He is s pernicious a force as Limbaugh is on the other side and about as deep a thinker IMHO.


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## KEnK (Aug 9, 2013)

Poilce State?

I used to tour in the former DDR and other "Eastern Block" nations.
I made a point of talking often to people about what life was like there.
Kept in touch w/ many through the German Unification.

There is nothing going on in US that resembles a genuine police state.
Think Stalin, Mao, North Korea.

Here in Oakland Ca., it's much more like the Wild West.
It's a f**king free for all.

Cops don't even investigate burglary.

Sorry-
Call it what you will but Police State is the wrong term.

k


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## chimuelo (Aug 9, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Aug 09 said:


> Chomsky is a self-loathing Jew and I am ashamed to share an ethnic heritage with him.



Academics are as useful as economists who always are allowed to operate with a huge margin of error, further making their opinions more irrelevant.

In make believe land at some University I think it's valuable to have these higher "educated" folks create an enviroment for free thinking. When I was attending school I found such educated folks fascinating. Unfortunately they did very little for preparing us for the real world.

Unless of course, you wish to emulate these elites and teach others how to fail for a great salary and unnacountable bully pulpit.

One should never let schooling get in the way of a good education.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 9, 2013)

Jay, equating Noam Chompsky with Rush Limbaugh is almost as ludicrous as anything Rush Limbaugh says. Limbaugh is a bloviator and Chompsky is an intellectual you disagree with - and who doesn't have an enthusiastic audience of the stupidest people ever born (who are all heavily armed and full of beer, etc. etc. etc.).

Your mistake is viewing the left/right divide in this country as being between two equally valid sides, therefore anything in the middle must be the best answer. Bullshit. The Republicans are wrong about every single issue, and it's their outright irrational craziness that's the biggest problem in our country.

***

Having visited the former DDR myself, I have to agree with KEnK. I mean, they had guys with machine guns silhouetted every few feet against the glass top of the train station. You feel the oppression immediately.

However, the Republicans are - willingly or not - conspiring to create the kind of atmosphere that opens the way for that. The teabag douchebags are every bit as stupid as the Germans were during the rise of Hitler, only the circumstances aren't as dire. Thank goodness.

But look at the villains: Koch suckers, ALEC - it's an evil conspiracy of insane assholes with horns and tridents.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 9, 2013)

He is not an intellectual, he is a sophist and his stands on issues are actually, in my view, immoral.

Intellectuals seek out knowledge and truth for the sake of knowledge and truth. Chomsky sews together elaborate patterns of snippets and creates a profoundly dishonest whole cloth from them. Sophistry, pure and simple.


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## G.R. Baumann (Aug 9, 2013)

There is a difference in sharing valuable criticism on someones analysis, insights and points of view, and the plain slander and smear, ad hominem attacks and verbal diarrhea that usually comes from the Anti-Chomskyites. 

Over the years I learned that most of their contributions are not even worthy any comments, and forgive me for being blunt Eastwest Lurker, but your contributions certainly fall in this category.

x x x x

Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, such and more are examples of the most opressive states. 

For the rest of world, one trend that stands out and can be witnessed is the permanent assault on civil society around the world under the cover of the war on terror. The tools and methods vary and are multifold.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 9, 2013)

G.R. Baumann @ Fri Aug 09 said:


> There is a difference in sharing valuable criticism on someones analysis, insights and points of view, and the plain slander and smear, ad hominem attacks and verbal diarrhea that usually comes from the Anti-Chomskyites.
> 
> Over the years I learned that most of their contributions are not even worthy any comments, and forgive me for being blunt Eastwest Lurker, but your comments certainly fall in this category.



No problem. I expressed my opinion very strongly and I am prepared to have dissenting opinions expressed just as strongly.

The "intellectual" said:" If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged."

IMHO, no different than the most extreme right wing statements.

He said, "Everyone’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s really an easy way: Stop participating in it.”

Sure, like telling the bully who beats you up daily on the way home from school, then starts hitting your sister and her friends as well, "Don't worry, I won't hit you."

Stupid and dangerous. If this is what passes for an "intellectual", then we are all in serious trouble.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 9, 2013)

G.R. Baumann @ Fri Aug 09 said:


> There is a difference in sharing valuable criticism on someones analysis, insights and points of view, and the plain slander and smear, ad hominem attacks and verbal diarrhea that usually comes from the Anti-Chomskyites.
> 
> Over the years I learned that most of their contributions are not even worthy any comments, and forgive me for being blunt Eastwest Lurker, but your contributions certainly fall in this category.
> 
> ...



The war on terror is awesomely 1984-ok, given. Now-do you think the threat of global terrorism actually does not exist? Radicalism does not flourish? There are not organized, well armed, funded and trained religious ideologues who would like to bomb my city yet again? If you believe that, please read Jessica Stern's book on terror-"Terror in the Name of God." She is considered a foremost expert on terrorism.

Remember, no one was considered a civilian in the bombing of the towers. The attack on the Pentagon was one thing, bombing an office building was quite another. 

Tell me-if we leave them at peace (I realize this is not within the realm of believability) would they reciprocate? Do you honestly believe there is no drive towards jihad at this stage? The radicalization of the Boston brothers didn't ring a bell for you? Young men are being expertly educated, trained and paid a living wage to do jihad. Should they perish in the cause, their parents are lionized and taken care of. This is not some fly by night operation-it's a multi-branched professionally organized guerilla warfare organization. The Madrassas take the best and brightest. 
True warriors.

Did the Bush government, Mister Cheney in particular, take the opportunity of 9/11 to push a neo-con agenda that led us down this hellish path? Yes. Has Obama, sadly, continued it? Yes again. Does that mean no problem exists and that we in the cities of the U.S. face no threat? Absurd.

I consider facile analyses of complex issues to be anti-intellectual.


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## José Herring (Aug 9, 2013)

Not a police state but something quite unique that the world hasn't seen yet. We've become a nation where our very identities are stolen, tracked, and overly analyzed in the name of "national security". That's why the citizens are losing this fight. It's not an attack on liberty as the right wing nut cakes think, but rather an attack on our personal information. Nothing is private anymore.

But, it's still the freest nation on Earth, we can move anywhere without any problems and I barely even see cops roaming the streets. And, I live in a big city.

So police state would be inaccurate. Spy state would be more accurate.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 9, 2013)

State where every law costs huge amounts of money to be enacted.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 9, 2013)

There are laws enacted? Good lord, someone tell Congress.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Aug 10, 2013)

I am not very much aware of the local politics in the US but largely I think as an outsider (I am an Indian national living in Mumbai) it looks like they are trying to get rid of this mentality of terrorism around the world. Because they see this kind of thought process a threat to the world they have created over the last 50 years. 

Taking over countries and not being accountable to anyone because simply US is still somewhat the most powerful country in the world is not the best way to do this of course.

The US has not been very smart about all this but after 9/11 it was a different world.

I remember travelling to the UK and US pre 9/11 - the immigration and VISA process was very different and I could see people smile at the airport. 

When I went for a cultural exchange program to Scotland in 2000, the immigration officer even joked with me and it was all a very relaxed yet straightforward process.

A lyricist friend was just deported from the US a few days back and his 10-year tourist visa cancelled because he had a huge beard which was not consistent with this photo on the passport. He was also travelling to Detorit for some reason and they just could not understand why he would go there and why he was sporting this beard. So a guy cannot grow a beard? What is the point of all that technology they baoast of - finger printing and everything? I am not sure.

During my exchange program - I was travelling to a foreign country alone for the first time at the age of 15 I think. Everybody was nice and calm - very helpful.

Now, whenever I cross UK immigration they ask very weird questions and everyone is dead serious. Its a different vibe. The US VISA process is a tough one even if I just want to visit some city. I haven't been there since 1997. 

I did encounter some racism in the UK during my 4-year period of higher education. Some people thought I was a 'Paki'. It has not scarred me or anything. We face racism even here in our own country. I had a wonderful time otherwise and everyone at University was happy with me. It seemed like I fit very well into their system because in India, we go through a more strict environment in school and I also attended a boarding school when I was younger.

9/11 was a terrible tragedy and I think it really hurt the US (of course) and I think that is when these events started into motion more aggressively. 

Indians have been saying that Pakistan is a terrorist nation but US still continued giving them money and other logistical support for years. It was not untill 9/11 and even 26/11 in Mumbai that the US took strict action against them.

I am a Kashmiri Pandit. My father was born in Kashmir. My grandfather had a property there - our ancestral home. But it was taken over by surrendered militants after basically my entire family and extended members were forced to move out because of extreme violence and poor economic opportunities. Kashmir was never the same again.

We are just a group of approximately 500,000 Kashmiri Pandits left. 

My father and four of his brothers have nothing left in Kashmir. They had to leave behind everything. 

But the idea is not to let this feeling take over you and look beyond reason. Yes, terrorism is all present in Pakistan - we face attacks every other day from them at the border and terrorism in major cities. But, more violence is not the way to go. They just want to cause maximum damage and nothing makes sense. Killing more innocent people and causing widespread damage. 

This damage is not only collateral or just physical. It damages entire families and plays heavy on generations to come.

Somewhere, I think the United States had a shocking moment during 9/11 - of course, they did, it was terrible and I think from there on in their panic they took some bad decisions. 

Oh - US will bounce back ok. This is not a race to the finish or anything. There are lots of good things about the US.

My family has certainly benefited from it. 

My sister is mentally challenged by birth with some serious disabilities. She was also born with a hole in her heart. 

My father got to know about a program where the US provided free medical treatment for such kids from South-East Asia. We only had to fly in and figure out our stay. My sister was operated upon for free. She lives today because of this. 

I am talking around 1989-1990. We did not have the technology or the medical know-how at that time to get this done successfully in India and even if we did, it would be out of our reach financially. 

Now, India boasts some of the best doctors in the world. Our healthcare is getting better and I see people from US coming in all the time. From all over the world actually. It is also much cheaper over here. But the standards are high. But they are also poor. Its a mix.

In the end, I think the US has shared much with the world and it is not all that bad or dark a nation, certainly does not seem like a police state. 

They are simply reacting to the current problems. Not always in the best possible manner but they are doing something about it. Most nations dont care. 

Certainly, India is massively corrupt and while we are also growing at an unbelievable rate, it remains to be seen how we can actually narrow the divide between the rich and the poor and give the people a real chance at a good life. This is all new stuff, nobody can really predict anything accurately. 

In the end I think the US is not going down or anything. It is also a great nation. Perhaps, they will no longer be the only big super power in the future. China is certainly making sure of that!


Just my thoughts.


Tanuj.


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## choc0thrax (Aug 10, 2013)

vibrato @ Sat Aug 10 said:


> In the end I think the US is not going down or anything. It is also a great nation. Perhaps, they will no longer be the only big super power in the future. China is certainly making sure of that!



In 25 years the U.S. will be a giant Detroit. The main export will be raccoon meat. Supertornadoes and swarms of synthetic killer bees will take out much of the population. An Ohio area man will become a brief youtube sensation for disrupting a live news report by yelling out "President Zhang don't care 'bout white people!"

IMO.


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## G.R. Baumann (Aug 10, 2013)

A professor of history and international relations at Boston University,a Ph.D. in American Diplomatic History from Princeton University, and taught at West Point and Johns Hopkins University prior to joining the faculty at Boston University in 1998 retired from the U.S. Army with the rank of colonel, Andrew J. Bacevich warned since many years that the US implemented a doctrine of endless war.

ISBN 9781429943260
WASHINGTON RULES
America's Path to Permanent War


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## TheUnfinished (Aug 10, 2013)

America is too big to become a true police state, it's financially not viable. But the necessary fear and paranoia has always been there.

When you haven't got an enemy, you go looking for one. When was the last time the US wasn't at war or invading somewhere?


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## NYC Composer (Aug 10, 2013)

choc0thrax @ Sat Aug 10 said:


> vibrato @ Sat Aug 10 said:
> 
> 
> > In the end I think the US is not going down or anything. It is also a great nation. Perhaps, they will no longer be the only big super power in the future. China is certainly making sure of that!
> ...



Beneath your ironic presentation, is there any sympathy for all those murdered raccoons?

According to the pre-cogs, I'll vote for Zhang twice, once in 2033, and then again in 2049. They say I'll be the temporarily thawed out post-centarian at the '49 convention, shouting "16 more years! 16 more years!!"


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## AC986 (Aug 10, 2013)

I can see America as time passes becoming more and more separate countries as opposed to states. The main language in time to come will be Hispanic origin. China probably left it late to implement birth control. In the end everyone else on the planet will almost definitely have to follow suit on that.


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## chimuelo (Aug 10, 2013)

Thanks Tanuj.
Always appreciate the opinion of folks from outside the USA.
I am more concerned with what people around the Globe think of the US rather than the same old boring opinions from worshippers of the 2 false dieties.

Our "security" measures only infuriate travellers everywhere. It's the typical knee jerk response to give the illusion and false sense of Security. 

I actually like the TSA as they know where every gate is, what time the Restaraunts and Stores open/close, and I don't consider them a financial burden as they seem to take the unemployable and less skilled folks, and give them a purpose. Even if they never thwart an attack or catch any bad guys.

Truth is a determined enemy is going to hit you where you think you're safe, and there's really nothing you can do about it. But giving off the sense of a "secure" enviroment is the same emotion that drives Wall Street investors. 

With the Fed pumping in money to Housing and the markets every month, investors feel "safe" and invest. With a false sense of security, businesses and people can carry on since they see a presence that promotes "security."

FWIW I finally saw Slum Dog Millionaire since I am way behind the "trends". It's much cheaper that way.
But what a great movie. And since I have always been deep into the ancient texts, Gandhi, etc. 
I now have a new interest in reading about how modernized the largest Democracy in the history of the Planet is doing.



Alvida


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 10, 2013)

Interesting post, Tanuj.

To be perfectly honest, the one thing that stuck out the most to me is that you have a friend who is a lyricist!

That's a profession that as far as I know doesn't exist any more. Never mind songwriters, people like Hal David, Bernie Taupin...is there a career for people like that today (not that there are other people like that - they're unique talents, of course).

Okay, back to the state of our nation-state...

It's no secret that we have an empire, in fact everyone should read at least one of the late Chalmers Johnson's "Blowback" series to grasp the extent of it. He made a very strong case that the loss of our republic will be an inevitable consequence of that.

I'm not sure that's the biggest fish, but it's certainly one of them.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 10, 2013)

TheUnfinished @ Sat Aug 10 said:


> America is too big to become a true police state, it's financially not viable. But the necessary fear and paranoia has always been there.
> 
> When you haven't got an enemy, you go looking for one. When was the last time the US wasn't at war or invading somewhere?



This is probably true, but the people who blew up thousands in an office building in nyc ( in a second attempt) are my enemy. They are organized, well trained and funded. This is not a straw man. I dont agree with some of the stupid responses, but that doesnt obviate the dangers.


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## chimuelo (Aug 10, 2013)

Slightly OT, 
But the PBS DVD of Burt Bacharach really gives Kudos to Hal David, and hearing such a quality band backing Dusty Springfield, Herb Alpert, Chuck Jackson and Dionne Warwick makes it a excellent value/purchase.

Also a prime example of why Reverb tails have no place in Orchestration unless the samples really suck and need to be washed into silence.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 10, 2013)

NYC Composer @ Sat Aug 10 said:


> TheUnfinished @ Sat Aug 10 said:
> 
> 
> > America is too big to become a true police state, it's financially not viable. But the necessary fear and paranoia has always been there.
> ...



Well stated, Larry.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Aug 11, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Aug 11 said:


> Interesting post, Tanuj.
> 
> To be perfectly honest, the one thing that stuck out the most to me is that you have a friend who is a lyricist!
> 
> ...




Hahaha! Nick, lyricists are very, very important in Bollywood. Songs are massively popular over here and are the main film music in films. Score is secondary. A fight, still going on.

Hence every song needs a lyricist almost exclusively for every little project over here. I do a song occasionally. I don't think I am a good songwriter. Cinematic music comes naturally to me but some projects are interesting and I go ahead and produce them. Doing on right now actually after I wrapped up a film project.

I am not too bothered about the security measures taken by the US for foreign travelers. For the most part, they are legitimate and when such a thing as the 2001 attacks happen, it is completely understood why.

I cannot comment on the recent spying reports in the US. I do not live there and have no right to comment too much on it. It is an issue for its people and they have the right to say what they want.

Hence, I solely provided an outside view and my experiences connected to the US weirdly, specially with my sister's surgery. 

I feel all the time that even a country like India with all its diversity is battling a thread everyday. It is more likely that a country like India will break up than the US. 

I visited some extreme parts of the country and already a lot of them do not feel they are Indians. The government has neglected them. Progress has not reached everywhere. 

A new state has just been created. There is problem in Kashmir in the North. The North East has a problem with the naxalite threat going on. 

The south is a world in its own - the problems with Sri Lanka - the LTT - just worked on a film about that actually. 

The west has a problem between Hindus and Muslims - that's a national issue because so many muslims do live in India side by side. But, if your daughter wants to marry a Muslim or vice verse - its a massive issue. Its considered a family disgrace.

Hindus and Muslims do not gel all too well in most parts of the country. 


Tanuj.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Aug 11, 2013)

Did you know, to enter one particular state in India, you need a permission and paperwork from the government?

This is because China claims it to be part of their country. It is run by the Indian government but it is called a disturbed state and people cannot enter without permission. The Chinese have been very strong about that. 

China disputes a lot of connecting land with India.


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## Aakaash Rao (Aug 11, 2013)

vibrato @ Sun Aug 11 said:


> Did you know, to enter one particular state in India, you need a permission and paperwork from the government?
> 
> This is because China claims it to be part of their country. It is run by the Indian government but it is called a disturbed state and people cannot enter without permission. The Chinese have been very strong about that.
> 
> China disputes a lot of connecting land with India.



Our family just travelled to Sikkim over this last summer, in fact. For some areas, we had to travel with a government worker to make sure that we weren't scouting out military bases, haha. :shock:


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## Dave Connor (Aug 11, 2013)

Regarding the U.S. becoming a police state based upon the recent European models: it's precisely the point of the new technology that it's not necessary to intimidate and brutalize the populace. If you know what everyone's doing and saying then you have far more advantage than any past oppressive regimes. 

The days of Stalin deliberately killing a couple thousand random souls in a town to cow the remaining thousands is over. If you have the name, address, phone number, credit card records, list of weaponry, political leanings and so on of every single person in a town, you have more than the Soviets or Nazi's ever dreamed in the way of information and ability to act on it. I do not describe the future but the present.

The other side of the coin and argument as regards to protecting the citizenry and the steps needed to effectively do that is an obvious one. Everyone agrees in principle on diligent guarding against terror. But the idea of a blanket trust of ANY government is a bad, bad idea. We want to know what the government is doing and have a voice in deciding if we'll let them.


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## germancomponist (Aug 11, 2013)

Dave Connor @ Sun Aug 11 said:


> Regarding the U.S. becoming a police state based upon the recent European models: it's precisely the point of the new technology that it's not necessary to intimidate and brutalize the populace. If you know what everyone's doing and saying then you have far more advantage than any past oppressive regimes.
> 
> The days of Stalin deliberately killing a couple thousand random souls in a town to cow the remaining thousands is over. If you have the name, address, phone number, credit card records, list of weaponry, political leanings and so on of every single person in a town, you have more than the Soviets or Nazi's ever dreamed in the way of information and ability to act on it. I do not describe the future but the present.
> 
> The other side of the coin and argument as regards to protecting the citizenry and the steps needed to effectively do that is an obvious one. Everyone agrees in principle on diligent guarding against terror. But the idea of a blanket trust of ANY government is a bad, bad idea. We want to know what the government is doing and have a voice in deciding if we'll let them.



+1

100% agreed!


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## choc0thrax (Aug 11, 2013)

NYC Composer @ Sat Aug 10 said:


> Beneath your ironic presentation, is there any sympathy for all those murdered raccoons?



Hard to feel sympathy for something that hasn't happened yet. In 2017 I will pour Vanilla Dr Pepper and Pop Rocks into my Nana's IV bag for some quick inheritance money. Do I feel bad about her death? No. How could I? Hasn't happened yet.

Anyways, the whole raccoon thing will be the natural way of things. Man produces garbage---> raccoon eats garbage---> man eats raccoon---> drone strike kills man. It's the circle of life, like in that Lion King movie but with almost no animals and more Skynet.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 11, 2013)

choc0thrax @ Sun Aug 11 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sat Aug 10 said:
> 
> 
> > Beneath your ironic presentation, is there any sympathy for all those murdered raccoons?
> ...



Circle, pentangle. You say tomato.


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## chimuelo (Aug 11, 2013)

I have another circle.

We pay ISPs to secure and often add encryption to our services.
This is so we feel "safe" and "secure." 

The Feds come in and pay another fee to have access to this data.

Then they recuperate their ROI by taking our tax dollars and paying themselves
again to read our corresponsandances.

These wealthy redistributors are just brilliant.
No where else in the world are people represented by such talented liars and script readers who do an amazing job, ...considering they never attended Bobby Morris Agency prep classes. 0oD


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## AlexRuger (Aug 12, 2013)

o[])


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