# Just downloaded kontakt plugins, Can someone explain "instances" ?



## nickp (Jun 3, 2020)

So I was doing research on RAM because I might be upgrading my laptop to a new MacBook Pro, and came across kontakt instances. Since im going to experiment with kontakt synths for example I was lookin at RAM and kontakt specifically, however I keep coming across people mentioning instances and multiple instances. I couldn't really find an answer to this online anywhere or a email to contact NI and ask them about this. What is an instance in kontakt? If I use a synth sound and use it as a track in logic, is this an instance? 
IF so, how do you upload multiple instruments in one instance? Im really confused, im assuming my interpretation of instance is totally wrong. Can someone explain what one instance is? I saw people mention multiple instances, one for each instrument. So im assuming once I use on kontakt track its one instance aswell. The whole multiple tracks on one instance confuses, could someone give me some understanding here?

Thanks.


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## cuttime (Jun 3, 2020)

Very simple. An "instance" is an occurrence of the plugin on a single track with a single output. Multiple instruments in one "instance" will use another MIDI track in a "multitimbral" output, and, depending on the DAW, each "instance" can occupy a single computer processor core.


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## nickp (Jun 3, 2020)

ah okay, so I just read up on this, I am a newbie when it comes to DAWS, but I have been writing for Years, so mulitimbral is a result of using two different instruments together to make a new sound on one track/instance?


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## Rory (Jun 3, 2020)

Since you are using Logic, you may find it helpful to read the thread linked at the end of this paragraph. There’s a post with a link to a thread on automation that you may also find useful: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/impact-of-several-instances-of-kontakt-on-ram.94128/


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## nickp (Jun 3, 2020)

yea thanks actually I had seen that thread before I posted this, it seems automation with more than one instrument in one instance can be an issue. However I personally dont even know how to do that, since I am new to multiple instrument in once instance im wondering how that even works. 

Meaning, is one track/instance playing multiple instruments done for the sake of creating a unique sound? Once you use more than one instrument in an instance, the multiple instruments play the same notes, but in their own respective ways? In other words youre not playing two different melodies at once correct? simply combing two sounds to play that one particular melody?


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## Rory (Jun 3, 2020)

Nick,

Note that the steps in Logic to use a single instance of Kontakt to play more than one instrument requires checking the box, when setting up a Logic project, that says “Multi-timbral [x number] parts”. This does not mean that the result is a multi-timbral exercise. It’s just what Native Instruments says needs to be done to make this work.

If you read the thread that I linked, and the automation thread, you may decide to think twice about going down this road.


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## nickp (Jun 3, 2020)

thanks for the response, no im not saying im going to be doing this, im saying I dont even understand what multi timbral is, that is what I am speficially asking. Im trying to understand what multi timbral is to begin with.


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## Rory (Jun 3, 2020)

nickp said:


> yea thanks actually I had seen that thread before I posted this, it seems automation with more than one instrument in one instance can be an issue. However I personally dont even know how to do that, since I am new to multiple instrument in once instance im wondering how that even works.
> 
> Meaning, is one track/instance playing multiple instruments done for the sake of creating a unique sound? Once you use more than one instrument in an instance, the multiple instruments play the same notes, but in their own respective ways? In other words youre not playing two different melodies at once correct? simply combing two sounds to play that one particular melody?



Watch the two videos linked in the thread. The result is each instrument playing on a separate track. This is basically an alleged way to save RAM.

Multi-timbral is not the same thing, even though in Logic the multi-timbral check box is part of the mechanism to achieve this.


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## nickp (Jun 3, 2020)

ah I see. Do you use the newer 16 inch MacBook Pro? I was considering 64 gigs of RAM, however, someone mentioned that if you ever needed that much RAM from a DAW in a laptop, you would probably max out the CPU first before even using that much RAM due to the DAW. I find this might be true, I know my i7 MacBook Pro cpu maxes out before using all the RAM when recording music.
So I wonder if this would be true for a 64 gig MacBook Pro. It may be useful for video but I wonder if the laptop cpu can even handle such an audio workload that it would also be using more than 32 g of RAM mostly due to a DAW. It may very well max out the CPU before that RAM can be used in audio settings.


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## Rory (Jun 3, 2020)

I’m using a 2018 Mac mini, i7, 32GB of RAM. When needed, I connect to a Vega 56 external graphics card.

Re your reference to video ... I shoot 4K video and I don’t know anyone who claims that editing 4K video requires more than 32GB of RAM. In reality, it’s quite possible to do it with 16GB of RAM.

I’d be inclined to ask people who are running Logic on a MacBook Pro how much RAM they are using during a session and for what. 64GB is a hell of a lot of RAM.


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## ynwtf (Jun 3, 2020)

nickp said:


> So I was doing research on RAM because I might be upgrading my laptop to a new MacBook Pro, and came across kontakt instances. Since im going to experiment with kontakt synths for example I was lookin at RAM and kontakt specifically, however I keep coming across people mentioning instances and multiple instances. I couldn't really find an answer to this online anywhere or a email to contact NI and ask them about this. What is an instance in kontakt? If I use a synth sound and use it as a track in logic, is this an instance?
> IF so, how do you upload multiple instruments in one instance? Im really confused, im assuming my interpretation of instance is totally wrong. Can someone explain what one instance is? I saw people mention multiple instances, one for each instrument. So im assuming once I use on kontakt track its one instance aswell. The whole multiple tracks on one instance confuses, could someone give me some understanding here?
> 
> Thanks.



Heyo. I'm kind of new to this myself but just had a crash course lesson with the recent spitfire competition. So with that, and admitting I may be doing things wrong, this is how I approach the player "instances."

Basically, an instance is just a copy of some thing, whatever that thing is. More specifically, it's a mother to daughter relationship where the daughters are copies of the mother taking her characterists, but each daughter may be slightly different from each other. In this topic, your Kontakt player is the mother while each copy/instance placed into a track is a daughter.

Say I want to record a piano, a violin, and a cello. I have three different patches that all use the Kontakt Player. In my DAW my instruments folder lists Kontakt along with every other instrument plugin I have installed. Needing three different instruments, I will need to use three separate instances of the Kontakt player. Note that the Kontakt player is empty and acts more or less like a container place-holder for whatever instrument you want to place inside of it. I drag the Kontakt Player to track 1 to create an instance/copy of it. I repeat that for tracks two and three ending with three separate and empty instances of the player. Then in track 1, I click the Kontakt player icon to select what instrument I want associated with this track. I assign piano to 1 or whatever, violin to 2, and cello to 3.

My library has different articulation for each string instrument such as long, short, and variations of both. Each articulation may need a separate track with yet another Kontakt instance to load that articulation into acting as a separate instrument.

Depending on how many virtual instruments you plan to load, you can see how track count (Kontakt instance count) can pile up. RAM needed to run this all is another topic.


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## jbuhler (Jun 3, 2020)

Rory said:


> I’d be inclined to ask people who are running Logic on a MacBook Pro how much RAM they are using during a session and for what. 64GB is a hell of a lot of RAM.


No, really it's not. Do you need 64GB? Well it depends on what libraries you are trying to run, how many mics you want to use, how many tracks you have, how willing you are to freeze tracks, etc. You can likely get by with 32GB, some still work with 16GB. I imagine some work with less. But many run at 128GB (not laptops). Many still run multiple computers. 

My main template, which is SSO, a bunch of additional instruments, and mostly one mic position, runs around 45GB fully loaded and not purged. But I was able to work reasonably well with a slightly slimmer version of this template when I had 32GB. 

I'm running on a late-2015 4 Ghz i7 iMac, a less capable CPU than the one in the laptop under discussion. It uses its 64GB just fine.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 4, 2020)

nickp said:


> ah I see. Do you use the newer 16 inch MacBook Pro? I was considering 64 gigs of RAM, however, someone mentioned that if you ever needed that much RAM from a DAW in a laptop, you would probably max out the CPU first before even using that much RAM due to the DAW. I find this might be true, I know my i7 MacBook Pro cpu maxes out before using all the RAM when recording music.
> So I wonder if this would be true for a 64 gig MacBook Pro. It may be useful for video but I wonder if the laptop cpu can even handle such an audio workload that it would also be using more than 32 g of RAM mostly due to a DAW. It may very well max out the CPU before that RAM can be used in audio settings.



if you’re new to this, that laptop would be a huge waste of $$. I work professionally with a MacBook Pro 16GB Ram (lots of Kontakt libraries), just depends on what your intentions are. What libraries do you plan on running? At minimum, I’d go with 32GB just to be safe.


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## nickp (Jun 4, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> if you’re new to this, that laptop would be a huge waste of $$. I work professionally with a MacBook Pro 16GB Ram (lots of Kontakt libraries), just depends on what your intentions are. What libraries do you plan on running? At minimum, I’d go with 32GB just to be safe.


I am newer to DAW usage, however, I have been writing for 20 years so I am not new in that sense. I have a i7 2.9ghz 16 of RAM from 2017 and that cpu craps out with about 24 tracks of vsts and maybe ten kontakt tracks, most of all those tracks without processing. I also am interesting in synths of better quality than logics and VSTs that are better, like some kontakt strings. I also use Steven slate drums and mixing each part of the drums properly in their own tracks. That combined with multiple vocals tracks and guitar recordings. Although I havent yet used all the 16 g of RAM my laptop is acting slower unfortunately recently and showing red dots on the screen , freezing a little with only bout 10.5 gigs of RAM in use. 
So I feel this being a 800 dollar trade it right now it may be the right time for an upgrade. And I may go the refurbished route. Which means I wont be spending a ton more than a new laptop. My OS alone takes about 8 gigs of RAM. I dont think 16 g of RAM is the wisest choice for me, seeing at with 24 tracks, is already at the max.
The way I write is I basically will end up with four versions of a song, so as a guitarist, no big deal, I restructure on the fly and record different takes. HOWEVER on a DAW with synths, those different synth takes will add up quick, so if I have a song with about 20 tracks starting out, I may end up with 3 versions of that song in one project, wanting to listen to each version side by side, without freezing and bouncing audio in between. I think for an end project I may not need a ridiculous amount of RAM, however, in the song writing process, where im going to try multiple versions, and also different plugins and alter tone I feel this will add up fairly easily. So I feel I may certainly need an upgrade from 16 of RAM, and my laptop is acting a bit weird, so this is what has led to to think of spending a bit of money right now, which I rather not, however, id get a decent amount for a trade in and a cpu that can handle my needs, along with hopefully less latency since the cpu will be more capable.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 4, 2020)

What is your current laptop? A Mac Book? What libraries are you loading? Mine is a 2013, and my projects average around 40 tracks, no issues. Sounds like you may have something else going on.


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## nickp (Jun 4, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> What is your current laptop? A Mac Book? What libraries are you loading? Mine is a 2013, and my projects average around 40 tracks, no issues. Sounds like you may have something else going on.


2017 maxbook pro i7 2.9ghz-3.9 boost, 16g RAM, 15 inch. I considered it could be something else. I have heard of peoples SSDs being bottle necks, especially if they maxed out their SSD at one point. I also saw someone switch from a SATA ssd that was working fine to a PCIe ssd and the PCIe ssd had issues with the same project. Im thinking maybe in the SSD. Whatever it is, at this point, I think it might be time for an upgrade. before it possibly gets worse and my trade in is worth less. I definitely dont want to spend money fixing a MacBook Pro with no warranty.
I tried using intel power gadget to monitor the laptop but I downloaded it and it wont actually work it says there is an error. So its up in the air. All I really know is if im using 20-30 tracks and my laptop is struggling, I dont want to be in that situation, I cant accept something that will limit my creativity, thats nonsensical, I need to be able to write freely, no worries. VSTs and Synths are very cool, however, it makes me love my guitar even more, no bottlenecks there, just instant control over what I do , freely, I love it lol.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 4, 2020)

For what it's worth, my 2013 i7 only feels the pressure when I'm running very heavy sessions (like 60+ tracks of VI's and audio), and I also run from HDD's and SSD's connected via USB3. It's bizarre that you are experiencing this. If you open the Activity Monitor app on your Mac, what type of CPU activity are you seeing in those sessions?


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## nickp (Jun 4, 2020)

cpu usage is always low, I dont think its very accurate. When using logic cpu monitors it shows how the cores are reacting and they do max out. However every time I am about to buy a 16 inch, I stumble upon information how the new 16 in are nightmares, with endless issues with software and devices .im watching this 30 min video of someone giving details with proof of all the issues and apple admitting its software related for the 16 inch and there is no fix and it sounds like a complete buzzkill.


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