# Strings with Panning Options.



## jam_jam (Apr 5, 2021)

Hi folks new here and to the world of sampled instruments so please forgive me if this sounds daft.

I'm looking for a string library that will enable me to essential 'double track' and pan out wide as you would with say guitar tracks. I believe the term is divisi? Sorry total newbie.

I was turned into 8dio Anthology by @doctoremmet but was wondering if there was any other libraries I should consider.

Cheers


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## doctoremmet (Apr 5, 2021)

Hi Jamie. Good to see ya! ❤️


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## jam_jam (Apr 6, 2021)

Yes sir😁


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## doctoremmet (Apr 6, 2021)

Any forum friends out there with experience in tracking sampled strings in a rock / metal setting?

I figure a drier “studio library” (not recorded in situ but centered) would be most suitable. Would love to hear some pro tips!


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## SupremeFist (Apr 6, 2021)

If you use a proper stereo pan control (like Logic's built-in Direction Mixer plugin) you can pan anything anywhere you want. I did something like this a long time ago with a rockish track but can't remember what strings I used. But yes I would start with a library that at least has dryish close mics — but lots do! Eg Light and Sound Chamber Strings or Tableau Solo Strings. (And in both those libraries you can pan the mics individually.) What kind of size of section are you looking for?


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## storyteller (Apr 6, 2021)

jam_jam said:


> Hi folks new here and to the world of sampled instruments so please forgive me if this sounds daft.
> 
> I'm looking for a string library that will enable me to essential 'double track' and pan out wide as you would with say guitar tracks. I believe the term is divisi? Sorry total newbie.
> 
> ...


"Double tracking" is a little strange in terms of strings. If you are double tracking solo instruments, that is one thing. Make sure they are recorded with a close mic and NOT "in situ." That basically means, make sure they were not recorded "sitting in a place in an ambient orchestral hall, where they would normally sit, recorded with built in ambience and stereo mics." If you are talking about "double tracking" string sections... I think you may want to explore what you are trying to accomplish before you automatically default to attempting to mix string sections like guitars. You are going to get all sorts of weird phasing and artifacts when you do this with most string sections since they are recorded in stereo by default. You would certainly want dry/close mics only... and a library that was also not recorded in situ. Divisi is basically divisions of a string section recorded separately. That means the group of violins in Divisi A is different than Divisi B. That makes them sound different, like separate instruments. However, most "Divisi" libraries are recorded "in situ" which makes hard panning left and right somewhat pointless and rife with opportunities to make it sound horrible rather than achieve your goal. What is it you are trying to accomplish exactly? That would help others guide you a little bit better. Not trying to be harsh, but it may make sense to flesh out your goals first rather than try to fit an impractical solution into that goal.


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## storyteller (Apr 6, 2021)

After re-reading a couple of the other posts, I'll add that, for example in country music, a single violinist may record numerous tracks to recreate a small violin section. The same thing would happen with rock music. A single violinist or cellist would be used and just multi-tracked. In terms of samples, this is really hard to duplicate since a sample library of a solo instrument captures one "performance" of a solo instrument. In some of my arrangements for rock/pop/country, I will use multiple solo violin libraries and multiple solo cello libraries. In the case of Bohemian Violin and Cello, since each of their Expansion releases resulted in re-recording most of the samples, you can safely use Violin 1.0 and Violin expansion A as "two separate violinists" for a string part in a pop/rock song.

As for trying to increase the width, again, this is something that you may want to explore your goal a bit more. Generally, violins are coming from one location, cellos in another. It isn't quite the same as stacking guitars left and right. When it comes to sections, LCO is a great library for pop/rock strings... as are Century Strings and LASS. But I would hesitate trying to widen the image. In the case of Century Strings, a "wide" microphone is included which increases the stereo width in a natural way. Hope this helps!


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## jam_jam (Apr 6, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> If you use a proper stereo pan control (like Logic's built-in Direction Mixer plugin) you can pan anything anywhere you want. I did something like this a long time ago with a rockish track but can't remember what strings I used. But yes I would start with a library that at least has dryish close mics — but lots do! Eg Light and Sound Chamber Strings or Tableau Solo Strings. (And in both those libraries you can pan the mics individually.) What kind of size of section are you looking for?


Thanks mate. 

The problem with most libraries is they are set up in the tradition fashion with violins etc to the left and cellos, bass to the right.

What I require is essentially 2 takes of the same violin and viola performance panned out hard left and right. I've come to the conclusion that I will need a library that has a divisi function. Or, 2 very similar libraries lol.

Chamber size ideally. I bought my first library, Intimate Strings, but was unaware of the limitations (don't know what you don't know right?) Even on the mic tree there seems to be quite a lot of reverb baked in.


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## mussnig (Apr 7, 2021)

You might want to have a look at Spitfire's Studio Strings. However, I would very much recommend the Professional Edition: they offer divisi and the additional mics and mixes (especially mix 2) can give you a more or less dry sound. Not dead-like dry but dry in such a way that you don't hear the room anymore - ideal for repositioning and panning since you don't run into the problem that you pan the room at the same time.


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## jam_jam (Apr 7, 2021)

Thanks mate, I will definitely consider this one.


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## wilifordmusic (Apr 7, 2021)

Any of the libraries that include close mic positions "can" work. Many of the spitfire libraries that have close mics have some spatialization tools as well. I'm sure others do as well.

Depending on the DAW you use the tools to achieve your goal are possibly already there. You can use a plugin to narrow the stereo field all the way down to mono and then use the pan to move it around. Binaural panning (if available) is ideal for this task.

However if there is much room sound in the library, all bets are off. Sometimes just flipping left to right can do the trick. Try experimenting with some of these ideas and see what works for you.

With live strings we would often double track string sections, but it was just to beef up the sound without changing their stereo image.
If you double track sampled strings and then pan/flip them to opposite sides (violins, violas, celli and doublebasses) playing the same thing, I think you are going to end up with a big mushy string noise.

Check out the way Hans Zimmer splits out opposing melodic and rhythmic ideas in the stereo field. This sort of orchestration is non-traditional but very effective. Christian Henson demonstrates this idea in several of his videos.

good luck.


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## jam_jam (Apr 7, 2021)

wilifordmusic said:


> Any of the libraries that include close mic positions "can" work. Many of the spitfire libraries that have close mics have some spatialization tools as well. I'm sure others do as well.
> 
> Depending on the DAW you use the tools to achieve your goal are possibly already there. You can use a plugin to narrow the stereo field all the way down to mono and then use the pan to move it around. Binaural panning (if available) is ideal for this task.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply mate. This is some food for thought. I'm basically just looking to have the strings, violins and viola, as wide as possible, leaving room in the middle for bass, kick and vocals. 

I certainly have some options now thanks to all you lovely folk.

Thanks a bunch😁


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## Saxer (Apr 7, 2021)

Double tracking with samples is always a bit dangerous because you can get phasing or even monofying when exactly the same signal is left and right. Often it helps to use similar but different articulations like normal and molto vibrato.

You can flip the stereo sides of the second violins to get the stereo field filled.

Dimension strings is a small section of separately recorded individual players with mono mics and can be panned everywhere. They are my choice for pop/jazz.


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## mussnig (Apr 7, 2021)

Saxer said:


> Double tracking with samples is always a bit dangerous because you can get phasing or even monofying when exactly the same signal is left and right. Often it helps to use similar but different articulations like normal and molto vibrato.



Couldn't one avoid this by using samples from neighbouring zones (by transposing)? Spitfire’s String Libraries (and some others as well) usually also offer this as an option in the GUI so that two samples are played every time.


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## Saxer (Apr 7, 2021)

mussnig said:


> Couldn't one avoid this by using samples from neighbouring zones (by transposing)? Spitfire’s String Libraries (and some others as well) usually also offer this as an option in the GUI so that two samples are played every time.


Sure, that is another option too.


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## jam_jam (Apr 7, 2021)

Saxer said:


> Double tracking with samples is always a bit dangerous because you can get phasing or even monofying when exactly the same signal is left and right. Often it helps to use similar but different articulations like normal and molto vibrato.
> 
> You can flip the stereo sides of the second violins to get the stereo field filled.
> 
> Dimension strings is a small section of separately recorded individual players with mono mics and can be panned everywhere. They are my choice for pop/jazz.


Agreed, this was my problem from the start. If I pan the same samples out wide, I'll then just end up with a mono stereo image. This is why I was considering libraries with divisi options.

Dimension strings I will have to check out for sure man. The layout you describe sounds very flexible.

Thanks a lot.


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## Technostica (Apr 8, 2021)

When I read 'strings with panning options', what came to mind was a hillbilly banjo that can be used to pan for gold.  

Not sure if it is still sociably acceptable to use that word? 
Banjo I mean!  
Although I once heard John Mclaughlin play one in concert. He does have Alchemical hands which allows him to extract gold from most stringed instruments.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 8, 2021)

When I read banjo my mind thinks: Sufjan Stevens.


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## mussnig (Apr 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> When I read banjo my mind thinks: Sufjan Stevens.


For some reason, the first thing that came to my mind was this:


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## doctoremmet (Apr 8, 2021)

So @Saxer - for Jamie’s use case would you recommend the full package?






Because that is quite a hefty price tag (in € even). Or could the Special Edition “starter version” be considered suitable, given the rock / metal setting?






Currently on sale, 40% discount.


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## wilifordmusic (Apr 8, 2021)

jam_jam said:


> Thanks for the reply mate. This is some food for thought. I'm basically just looking to have the strings, violins and viola, as wide as possible, leaving room in the middle for bass, kick and vocals.
> 
> I certainly have some options now thanks to all you lovely folk.
> 
> Thanks a bunch😁


You're very welcome.
I use both Spitfire Studio Strings and LASS (pro versions) and they are both great candidates for this purpose without being hideously expensive. 
I can't speak yet from experience on it's abilities but the new Modern Scoring Strings also have the spatialization features you desire built in.
And all three have various sized divisi sections.


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## Saxer (Apr 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> So @Saxer - for Jamie’s use case would you recommend the full package?
> 
> Because that is quite a hefty price tag (in € even). Or could the Special Edition “starter version” be considered suitable, given the rock / metal setting?


I think the special edition version is flexible enough.


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## secondtiersound (Apr 9, 2021)

Hello! Divisi is basically a divided section, most often in the strings. if a patch has, lets say 16 players, than a divisi section would be 8.

Not too many libraries offer this, because most people don't bother with it. (too much work and no real difference in the end) 
8dio has it. Hollywood Orchestra has it if you pay for the Diamond version.

But there are few workarounds:
This smaller "divisi sound" can actually be achieved with mic positions. The closer the mic, the "smaller" the sound. (It actually becomes louder, but it feels smaller)
Also, some libraries have "chamber" or smaller patches. Use those instead for a "divisi" sound.
Some libraries have simply smaller sections recorded by default, such as Cinematic Studio Strings, and Berlin Strings. You can double them easily for a bigger sound.
You can layer a solo-instrument/first chair with a normal string section, mix it so that you hear a little more of the solo, and that will create a "smaller divisi sound."

It doesn't sound to me you are after the "stereoeffect" achieved with delay that guitars often use, but just simple divisi. But, you could always experiment though 
Cheers!


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