# Mac mini for film scoring



## bryla (Oct 31, 2020)

I would like to know if any of you have experience with Mac mini for orchestral film music meaning streaming lots of samples off external SSD drives and running a movie in the DAW. 

I'm looking at this one:

3,2 GHz 6-core Intel i7
64 GB 2666 MHz DDR4
Intel UHD Graphics 630
2 TB SSD
10 Gigabit Ethernet

Would that be 'enough'?


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## JonS (Oct 31, 2020)

bryla said:


> I would like to know if any of you have experience with Mac mini for orchestral film music meaning streaming lots of samples off external SSD drives and running a movie in the DAW.
> 
> I'm looking at this one:
> 
> ...


You are better off buying the mid level iMac which can hold 128gb ram and is a much more powerful machine.


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## Kent (Oct 31, 2020)

bryla said:


> I would like to know if any of you have experience with Mac mini for orchestral film music meaning streaming lots of samples off external SSD drives and running a movie in the DAW.
> 
> I'm looking at this one:
> 
> ...


I know some people scoring, like, Disney shows on a similar machine. So it’s certainly doable. But what I don’t know is if or to what degree it is a headache.


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## ptram (Oct 31, 2020)

I'm doing orchestral simulations with an old Mac Pro 2013 and 64 GB of RAM, and I usually have other 15 GB still free. But I’m using mostly VSL dry samples, that are particularly efficient (single stereo channel, only loading the needed samples).

Paolo


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## Altauria (Oct 31, 2020)

If you MUST do a Mac mini, as opposed to something like an iMac as JonS suggested, get a laptop cooler pad. I helped a composer set up their studio for a mini, using Cubase. With minimal load (basically having Cubase open...) it was getting very hot and throttling, but no problems with the cooling pad.

- Samples were on and external SSD
- Specs of Mini were the same as your consideration


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## jaketanner (Oct 31, 2020)

I have the same model..if you are referring to the 2018 and not the 2020 model. Fully maxed out...haven't run into any issues, but I don't usually run super large templates either. Not sure what the iMac specs are, but what I like about the mini is that I can use my own monitor size...with an iMac, things get a bit weird I think when you start including additional monitors...but that was my past experience. 

Rule of thumb I think with this is: get the largest and fastest Mac you can afford and be able to max it out with RAM. That should be the thought process...no less than 64 gigs RAM, and at least a 6 core i7 should be minimum for near hassle free scoring.

Of course, everything on an external SSD...I did get a 256 gig internal SSD and I wish I had gone for the 512 at least...but if you have to cut costs somewhere...that's where to do it...your internal SSD size.

And it does get hot, and the drives get hot...I have a USB fan pointed at it, but someone mentioned about the laptop fan...night be a good option also. Mins is set up vertically to maximize cooling.


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## Saxer (Oct 31, 2020)

Some people place their MacMini upside down for better cooling.


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## Nate Johnson (Nov 1, 2020)

I feel like I've read that the i5 might perform a little better, heat wise. For such a minor difference in clock speed....


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## dbudimir (Nov 1, 2020)

Saxer said:


> Some people place their MacMini upside down for better cooling.


That is an interesting idea. I will have to research it more. Thanks


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## Ashermusic (Nov 1, 2020)

I am using it and it can run my Hollywood Orchestra Diamond template, which my 2013 iMac could not, mostly because it has 64 GB instead of 32.

it does run hot. Brian P.,what is the laptop cooler pad you refer to?


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## Nate Johnson (Nov 1, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I am using it and it can run my Hollywood Orchestra Diamond template, which my 2013 iMac could not, mostly because it has 64 GB instead of 32.
> 
> it does run hot. Brian P.,what is the laptop cooler pad you refer to?



you got that mini pretty recently, right? Any other feedback for us about it besides successfully running that big template (woohoo!)


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## Ashermusic (Nov 1, 2020)

Nate Johnson said:


> you got that mini pretty recently, right? Any other feedback for us about it besides successfully running that big template (woohoo!)



it’s biggest downside is the GPU. When I perform over OBS or Zoom, I see latency with my movements. The people watching don‘t, so it is a matter of it not rendering well in real time.

Other than that, it’s a nice little machine and it cost me about half of what a new iMac i7 would cost. But if I was making the kind of money I used to make, I would have bought the iMac.


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## el-bo (Nov 1, 2020)

dbudimir said:


> That is an interesting idea. I will have to research it more. Thanks



There is this stand:




And this, also. The first reviewer mentions that he has his on this stand, with the Mini's bottom-cover removed. Seems like it might be a good idea, as long as you resist the temptation to reverse the fan, as some seem to suggest:


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## Nate Johnson (Nov 1, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> it’s biggest downside is the GPU. When I perform over OBS or Zoom, I see latency with my movements. The people watching don‘t, so it is a matter of it not rendering well in real time.
> 
> Other than that, it’s a nice little machine and it cost me about half of what a new iMac i7 would cost. But if I was making the kind of money I used to make, I would have bought the iMac.



gotcha. Even though I only flirt with video, thats been my main hesitation (and most common review point I’ve seen). But I’m also having a hard time justifying the cost of the iMac i7.

If the mini can handle my impulsive composition-via-sound-design-experimentation workflow without dropping audio or making noise, I’m in!


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## wayne_rowley (Nov 1, 2020)

I have the i5 2018 with 32GB of RAM. It’s handled everything I‘ve thrown at it. I don’t have massive templates, but my orchestral ones are over 130 tracks with Kontakt or Spitfire player. It gets warm but is very quiet. I only hear the fans when bouncing, or doing some video rendering.


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## Altauria (Nov 1, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I am using it and it can run my Hollywood Orchestra Diamond template, which my 2013 iMac could not, mostly because it has 64 GB instead of 32.
> 
> it does run hot. Brian P.,what is the laptop cooler pad you refer to?



Anything like these: Prices can greatly vary.








The best laptop cooling pad for 2023: favorite pads to keep your laptop chilled


Stay frosty with the very best laptop cooling pads




www.techradar.com





I don't recall which model they had, as it was a while ago (pre-Covid, so basically decades for the brain), and believe they paid around $60 for it. Very silent and worked like a charm! I couldn't believe it.


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## Nate Johnson (Nov 1, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> I have the i5 2018 with 32GB of RAM. It’s handled everything I‘ve thrown at it. I don’t have massive templates, but my orchestral ones are over 130 tracks with Kontakt or Spitfire player. It gets warm but is very quiet. I only hear the fans when bouncing, or doing some video rendering.



Wow. That kinda blows me aways and says it all. I was planning on 64gb ram, but sounds like 32gb would be fine. I could get this mini + cheap monitor + keys and trackpad for $1650!

hmmmmm


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## mixedmoods (Nov 1, 2020)

I am using a 2018 MacMini (purchased this year) aswell.
I got it with the minimum of RAM and then manually upgraded it to 64 GB – which saved me a couple of hundred bucks which I invested in the i7 CPU. It' s not a super easy process but there are several well done guides on YouTube.
Same with the SSD – Apple charges alot for additional disk space so I got a 2TB SSD chip from Sabrent and a Tunderbolt 3 enclosure (Wavlink) to build a superfast external disk for orchestral libraries.

In my opinion the only bottleneck of a MacMini can be its weak onboard GPU processor – especially when using it on a 4k external screen. I experienced problems for example after upgrading to Cubase 10.5. Steinberg introduced new graphics acceleration with Metal support which can be problematic if your Mac doesn't have a dedicated GPU processor (Radeon) but just a build in one (Intel Iris) like all MacBook Pro 13inch laptops and also the MacMini. (Most iMacs have a dedicated GPU.)
Working with a higher CPU loads caused by NI Kontakt or other demanding VI's on a 4K screen can cause heavy dropouts and CPU spikes. Even StudioOne did the same change with their recent 5.0 version.
For me the only solution was an external EGPU which takes over all the GPU processing.
There is a good guide on this topic:



So yes – I would say a MacMini can be a great solution for Orchestration if you consider those aspects and also depending on which software / DAW is used.


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## SupremeFist (Nov 1, 2020)

Saxer said:


> Some people place their MacMini upside down for better cooling.


I have mine on its side in a wooden letter rack. I only ever hear the fans when bouncing.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 1, 2020)

Altauria said:


> Anything like these: Prices can greatly vary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 1, 2020)

Nate Johnson said:


> Wow. That kinda blows me aways and says it all. I was planning on 64gb ram, but sounds like 32gb would be fine. I could get this mini + cheap monitor + keys and trackpad for $1650!
> 
> hmmmmm



You simply could not run my HO Diamond template on an Max mini i5 with 32 GB. Even my Gold template would struggle I think.


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## Fidelity (Nov 1, 2020)

If you use VSL SE it would def be enough. Probably even beyond...I used to run a decent sized VSL + EWQLSO plat (pre HO) template on my 2012 quad core i7 so I can't imagine how it'd struggle on a 6-core.

That said, I bought an 8-core laptop for under 1k...would def lean that way unless you're glued to logic or something.


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## Nate Johnson (Nov 1, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> You simply could not run my HO Diamond template on an Max mini i5 with 32 GB. Even my Gold template would struggle I think.



Is HO Diamond more demanding in the ram department? At least more so than whatever Wanye is running (although again, he says 130 tracks of Kontakt/Spitfire - which I’d be totally fine with!)


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## JonS (Nov 1, 2020)

Simon Franglen uses Mac minis as VEPro servers.


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## Nate Johnson (Nov 2, 2020)

FYI those considering a Mini and DO NOT have a screen/mouse/keyboard already (like me):

Expercom Pricing (coupon codes get you cheaper prices vs Apple):

Mini i7 512gb/64gb - $1600
keys/mouse/27" screen(amazon/ebay) - $400
*Total - $2000*

iMac 27" i7 512gb/64gb
*Total - $2425*

So the Mini is within *$425* of an iMac. The iMac is 8 cores, dedicated GPU, beautiful screen, and can go all the way up to 128gb of ram in the long haul. Less peripherals, less wall outlets, etc. Without a doubt, a more powerful machine. Obviously the above is an example spec, but bumping in either direction maintains about the same difference in price. 

Some things to note however:

- Obviously, screen needs will vary per user and you can buy keys/mice at all kinds of prices. And if you already have these things, thats another $400 savings against the iMac.

- Expercom pre-installs their own ram, which ends up costing about $75 more (Mini only) than getting it from OWC, but you'd have to install it yourself (moderately involved on the Mini). 

FYI - shipping times (to my part of the US anyways) are 1 *month* out for the iMac, vs 1 *week* for the Mini. This is the same from either Expercom or Apple. 

Just food for thought.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 2, 2020)

Nate Johnson said:


> Is HO Diamond more demanding in the ram department? At least more so than whatever Wanye is running (although again, he says 130 tracks of Kontakt/Spitfire - which I’d be totally fine with!)




Yes, it is.


Nate Johnson said:


> Is HO Diamond more demanding in the ram department? At least more so than whatever Wanye is running (although again, he says 130 tracks of Kontakt/Spitfire - which I’d be totally fine with!)



With more than one mic position, which is the point of choosing Diamond over Gold, yes.


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## JonS (Nov 2, 2020)

Nate Johnson said:


> FYI those considering a Mini and DO NOT have a screen/mouse/keyboard already (like me):
> 
> Expercom Pricing (coupon codes get you cheaper prices vs Apple):
> 
> ...


if you buy the iMac thru Apple's Education Store you save another $100 too, anyone can you can just be a student of life as no one will ask you anything online. The iMac is way more powerful, you get a beautiful display and keyboard/mouse or trackpad and the ability to add an extra 64GB of ram is a big deal.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 2, 2020)

JonS said:


> if you buy the iMac thru Apple's Education Store you save another $100 too, anyone can you can just be a student of life as no one will ask you anything online. The iMac is way more powerful, you get a beautiful display and keyboard/mouse or trackpad and the ability to add an extra 64GB of ram is a big deal.



All true, but in my case, I already had a monitor, mouse, and keyboard. So I bought the Mac mini 6 core i7 on e-bay for $1075, bought 64 GB of RAM from OWC for $310 and paid $90 to have it professionally installed, added a webcam for $60.

So all told I spent around $1600. For that money, the best I _maybe_ could have done was buy a 2015 iMac quad core i7.


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## gsilbers (Nov 2, 2020)

JonS said:


> if you buy the iMac thru Apple's Education Store you save another $100 too, anyone can you can just be a student of life as no one will ask you anything online. The iMac is way more powerful, you get a beautiful display and keyboard/mouse or trackpad and the ability to add an extra 64GB of ram is a big deal.



true. That’show I got my mini. 
plus using the Apple Card is another 3%off.


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## gsilbers (Nov 2, 2020)

The mini is great. And you can probably get a used pc with 128gb with an older cpu that can be used as a streaming/vep for a decent price.


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## rnb_2 (Nov 2, 2020)

Another option at the moment - OWC has new, sealed i3/i5 Mac minis for good prices, as long as you can live with 256GB internal storage. An i5 with 64GB (box opened just to install the RAM) is $1229. I bought an i3 8GB/128GB to replace my aging 2014 Mac mini as my backup/media server for $649.


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## Nate Johnson (Nov 2, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> All true, but in my case, I already had a monitor, mouse, and keyboard. So I bought the Mac mini 6 core i7 on e-bay for $1075, bought 64 GB of RAM from OWC for $310 and paid $90 to have it professionally installed, added a webcam for $60.
> 
> So all told I spent around $1600. For that money, the best I _maybe_ could have done was buy a 2015 iMac quad core i7.



Nice! Thats a pretty good deal for the Mini


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## Geoff Grace (Dec 2, 2020)

I understand that graphics is the biggest weakness of the Intel Mac mini. How does it fare when syncing to picture while scoring?

Best,

Geoff


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## Ashermusic (Dec 2, 2020)

Geoff Grace said:


> I understand that graphics is the biggest weakness of the Intel Mac mini. How does it fare when syncing to picture while scoring?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



I have not had problems with that in Logic. The only problem I have is that when using Zoom, I see a lag while the person on the other end watching me does not.


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## Geoff Grace (Dec 2, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I have not had problems with that in Logic. The only problem I have is that when using Zoom, I see a lag while the person on the other end watching me does not.


Thanks, *Jay*!

Best,

Geoff


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