# Pcm96 surround, omgomg



## synthetic (Oct 7, 2008)

I got to hear the new Lexicon PCM96 Surround at AES. Wow, absolutely amazing. I was already planning on getting the PCM96 but now the Surround version is very tempting. Because if you want to do a surround mix you pretty much run it through this box and you're done. Now I have to see how much I can save up. Just no comparison to convolution reverbs, and I have all of them. The PCM96 just kills them all. 

I hate AES, I always come home with the longest shopping list.


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## madbulk (Oct 7, 2008)

How did I miss this?

For that matter, how did I miss you? There should've been a vi-control plan of some sort. Next year.


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## José Herring (Oct 7, 2008)

synthetic @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> I got to hear the new Lexicon PCM96 Surround at AES. Wow, absolutely amazing. I was already planning on getting the PCM96 but now the Surround version is very tempting. Because if you want to do a surround mix you pretty much run it through this box and you're done. Now I have to see how much I can save up. Just no comparison to convolution reverbs, and I have all of them. The PCM96 just kills them all.
> 
> I hate AES, I always come home with the longest shopping list.



That easy! I'll definitely check it out.

Jose


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## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 7, 2008)

Do you mean that you run your 6 sub-stems in the box?

"Cause otherwise, there isn't any way to control what comes out...

Sounds cool though


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## synthetic (Oct 7, 2008)

You can use it as a 1-6 in/6-out FireWire interface. The regular PCM96 runs as an AU, VST or RTAS plug-in on Mac. You get two stereo reverbs, each the quality of a Lexicon 480L (according to the top recording engineers in the business -- Chuck Ainlay, Elliot Schiner, Al Schmitt, etc.). The new model, PCM96 Surround, can additionally run as a single surround reverb. They would play a dry flute solo coming from one speaker, then bring up the surround reverb and you were RIGHT THERE. 

It was awesome. As soon as I buy my Mac Pro I'm saving for the PCM96. I'll buy the 96 Surround when I get my first film deal.


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## synthetic (Oct 7, 2008)

This page shows the plug-in interface. With the PCM96 connected with FireWire, your system just shows two Lexicon effects in the Audio Units plug-in folder. 

http://www.lexiconpro.com/ProductIndex.aspx?ProductID=147 (http://www.lexiconpro.com/ProductIndex. ... ductID=147)


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## synthetic (Oct 7, 2008)

madbulk @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> How did I miss this?
> 
> For that matter, how did I miss you? There should've been a vi-control plan of some sort. Next year.



I don't know how you could have missed the TASCAM booth, it was right at the entrance of the hall.  We had cool T-shirts too.


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## Jack Weaver (Oct 7, 2008)

Euphoria modulation here.

I've had a PCM 96 for two months. 

Still waiting for the software to make it work with two independent stereo channels via FW. 

Lexicon is now saying it'll be working in a couple more months.

I'm sure the surround version is nice.


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## madbulk (Oct 7, 2008)

synthetic @ Tue Oct 07 said:


> madbulk @ Tue Oct 07 said:
> 
> 
> > How did I miss this?
> ...



Oh that great big one blocking my view of everything when I first walked in? I thought I'd missed a Lexicon booth.

Sorry man. With GigaGone, and that being my association with you here rightly or wrongly, I didn't think "hey, Jeff L is probably here, I should find him." Won't make that mistake again.


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## Colin O'Malley (Oct 9, 2008)

Did the mention any ballpark for the price of the surround unit? I've been eyeing the stereo 96 for the last month or two. Surround would be very cool. 

Thanks, 

Colin


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## Colin O'Malley (Oct 9, 2008)

Also, not to hijack the thread, but have any of you checked out the M7? Might be the only other unit for me that might compete with a high end lexicon. No surround version though (unless you want to buy 3-6 of them  )

http://www.bricasti.com/

Colin


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## synthetic (Oct 9, 2008)

Retail price of the PCM96 surround is $3800 for the digital version (AES/EBU on XLR connectors) or $4000 for the analog version (analog and AES on DB25 connectors). Yes, I've listened to the Bricasti. To me, the PCM96 sounds as good and there is twice the processing (you can have two stereo reverbs instead of one.) The Bricasti has only one algorithm for all reverbs, the PCM96 has around 10. And the PCM96 has a plug-in mode and no fan. 

If you want to check out Gearslutz.com, there are pages and pages of debate on Bricasti vs PCM96. At the show the Lexicon was endorsed by Ed Cherney, Chuck Ainley and George Massenburg, which speaks volumes to me. 

Yes, I've heard about people's troubles with the plug-in. Hopefully that will be resolved soon.


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## hv (Oct 10, 2008)

Been using an m7 about a month now and its a beast. 6 dsps but strictly stereo. I find it's sound more like that of a tc rev4000 than a lexicon... I found it hard to tell soò‘h   ‡ó‘h   ‡ó‘h   ‡ó	‘h   ‡ó
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## Daryl (Oct 24, 2008)

Jack Weaver @ Wed Oct 08 said:


> Euphoria modulation here.
> 
> I've had a PCM 96 for two months.
> 
> ...


Is it possible for you to post a short demo with and without the Lexicon? It would be very good to hear what difference it makes.

D


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## Jack Weaver (Oct 24, 2008)

Hi Daryl,

Right now it's sitting on the shelf waiting for that promised update. Like you, I'm waiting to hear what it'll sound like in my rig. 

It'll be interesting to see how it finally ends up being used - as an overall for an instrumental section, for a whole mix or for individual instruments. 

I wonder what will appear first, the update to the PCM 96 or VSL's MIR?


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## synthetic (Oct 24, 2008)

You don't have a set of stereo outs and ins you can loop into it? It's not like it doesn't work in standalone. You can even use the Ethernet app to control it from your computer. 

This is one of the reasons I like the surround version better – it has multiple ins and outs so you don't need to rely on the Firewire connection to work. Who knows, they might stop supporting Frewire updates when Mac OS X 10.8 comes out and I don't want it to be a boat anchor.


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## Daryl (Oct 24, 2008)

Jack Weaver @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> I wonder what will appear first, the update to the PCM 96 or VSL's MIR?


I am potentially interested in both the PCS96 and MIR, as they do very different things.

Not to hijack the thread, but I think that MIR has got a lot closer over the last few months. Dietz mentioned that they have had a software breakthrough, which means that it doesn't need such an insane amount of processing power any more.

However, back to the Lex; I will have to run it the old fashioned way in any case, as there is no support for Windows with the plug version.

D


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## synthetic (Oct 24, 2008)

It was explained to me that the type of DSP processor used in a dedicated reverb does many small processes, as opposed to a CPU which does larger processes at a slower rate. Or something. In any case, dedicated reverbs seem to have a depth behind the speakers that I don't hear in plug-in reverbs. 

I know that Nick B disagrees. Oh well, listen for yourself and decide.


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## Thonex (Oct 24, 2008)

synthetic @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> It was explained to me that the type of DSP processor used in a dedicated reverb does many small processes, as opposed to a CPU which does larger processes at a slower rate. Or something. In any case, dedicated reverbs seem to have a depth behind the speakers that I don't hear in plug-in reverbs.
> 
> I know that Nick B disagrees. Oh well, listen for yourself and decide.



All I know is my Lexicons sound more "pleasing" to my ears than anything else I've tried. Now... what bearing does that have on reality?? None... except that it's my opinion. :D 

However, some of the Convolution verbs out there are amazing.. but for what I do (tv and film)... I just like the sound of the Lexicons more.

So... I'll be VERY interested in this unit when the dust settles.

T


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## Daryl (Oct 24, 2008)

Hardware units and have different purposes and Convolution reverbs are just different beasts. My plan is to use Altiverb for putting in space, and the Lex for the overall mix.

D


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## Thonex (Oct 24, 2008)

Daryl @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> Hardware units and have different purposes and Convolution reverbs are just different beasts. My plan is to use Altiverb for putting in space, and the Lex for the overall mix.
> 
> D



That could well be the winning combo.... IR first reflections and a Lexicon for the longer tail. I use 1 lexicon specifically for the "first reflection" stage sound and another for the longer hall sound... but a great IR for the stage could well be the ticket.


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## Jack Weaver (Oct 24, 2008)

T,

Since Synthetic has shamed me into actually hooking up the unit, and using (for example) the ER from Altiverb|Todd-AO to feed an instance of the PCM 96 it just seems to blur the programing Lexicon has put into programs already - for example the Medium Vocal Concert Hall 1. That was a good theory but doesn't quite seem to work in practice. 

After the 12 minutes I've spent investigating the PCM 96 I can say that it sounds (_heh, heh, heh_) signiò˜^   ‰qÖ˜^   ‰q×˜^   ‰qØ˜^   ‰qÙ˜^   ‰qÚ˜^   ‰qÛ˜^   ‰qÜ˜^   ‰qÝ˜^   ‰qÞ˜^   ‰qß˜^   ‰qà˜^   ‰qá˜^   ‰qâ˜^   ‰qã˜^   ‰qä˜^   ‰qå˜^   ‰qæ˜^   ‰qç˜^   ‰qè˜^   ‰qé˜^   ‰qê˜^   ‰që˜^   ‰qì˜^


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## Jack Weaver (Oct 28, 2008)

Hi,

Some of you were saying you wanted to hear the PCM 96. Here’s a mix on a piece that I had to re-purpose and thought it would be a good candidate to use with it. 
I had shared a previous mix with Craig Sharmat and he thought that one was too dry. I don’t think this present one is dry. I kinda tried to overdo it to show the nature of the 96.

I used a couple more reverbs other than the 96 on this mix. Right now you can get only 1 stereo reverb output with it – even in Firewire mode. 
I was very pleased with the unit’s stability with the latest software and firmware. I used it in FW mode. 

The piece is lovingly named WF44-2a.

http://homepage.mac.com/jackweaver4/.Public/WF44-2a.mp3

If you’re interested I’ll go into the details of which reverb I used on what.


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## hbuus (Oct 28, 2008)

Jack, if you're gonna upload an example of what the PCM 96 sounds like, could you please select a slightly higher MP3 bitrate than 160? :shock:


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## Daryl (Oct 29, 2008)

Jack Weaver @ Wed Oct 29 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Some of you were saying you wanted to hear the PCM 96. Here’s a mix on a piece that I had to re-purpose and thought it would be a good candidate to use with it.
> I had shared a previous mix with Craig Sharmat and he thought that one was too dry. I don’t think this present one is dry. I kinda tried to overdo it to show the nature of the 96.
> ...


Thanks for that, Jack. I'd also be grateful if you could post it without the PCM, so that I can hear what's being added.

D


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## Hal (Oct 29, 2008)

Daryl @ Wed Oct 29 said:


> Jack Weaver @ Wed Oct 29 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...



yes a dry version pls


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## Hal (Oct 29, 2008)

i know people who cant tell if a GPO sounds fake and other would think of JV1010 to be real orchestra and we will definetly be laughing at them

hope i am not falling into the same prob here
i dont understand at all what huge difference this Lexicon would add
i dont get it
the PCM96 does what that ALtiverb doesnt ?
or does what better then convolution ??
why would i buy this if i am making orchestral music !?

Its related but ill leave this discussion for the PCM 96
and ill post here 
http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=134651


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## synthetic (Oct 29, 2008)

> http://homepage.mac.com/jackweaver4/.Public/WF44-2a.mp3



Sounds nice, dark hall reverb? I was listening to Jerry Goldsmith this morning and this had that same sound.  

BTW, The flute seems late to me in that 16ths figure towards the end, the last big statement of the theme.


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## Jack Weaver (Oct 29, 2008)

Greetings Synthetic,

Thanks for listening. For the overall strings reverb I used one instance of the 96’s Large Concert Hall (in a pretty large dosage) along with slightly smaller amounts of an instance of Altiverb Todd AO ER only and an instance of Altiverb Todd AO tails only. 

The 96 really tied it all together. The tail-off of the 96 cannot be faulted. It added a solidity to the strings that I’ve been looking for. 

On the Harp I used a TC VSS3 instance only and on the winds I used a slightly different Todd AO ER & Tails along with a differing VSS3. 

I’d like to reiterate that I was surprisingly pleased by the stability of the new software and firmware releases. I got it when it first came out and it was too buggy to be used with Firewire. However I’m eagerly awaiting the next update that will hopefully allow usage of two stereo returns via Firewire. Even though I only used one instance of the 96 for this mix, which was largely an experiment because you shamed me into using it, I will for the foreseeable future be printing extra tracks of it – until such time as it is able to be used in the way it was originally meant to be used. 

Going back to work now. Thanks for spurring me on to finally get this 'verb going. I owe you one. 8)


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