# Upgrade now or save to buy an 2018 Mac Mini?



## musiccorner (May 23, 2019)

Hello friends!

I´m in serious doubt so any advice / personal experience would be very helpful.

I have a Mac Mini (Late 2012), Core i7 (3720QM - 2,6 Ghz), 16gb ram (DDR3), with 1tb Fusion Drive and running my libraries / projects from a Lacie 3tb 7200 rpm. Latest OSX and latest Logic X. Most of my libraries are Kontakt based.

The only upgrade i can do with this computer is with its hard drive, so...

...i have the budget right now to get 3 SSDs (one for system, other for libraries and another one for projects)...

...or i can save money to get a Mac Mini (2018), Core i7 (3,2 Ghz), 32gb ram (changing by myself), 512 SSD on the next year or two (at the most).

To be honest, i don't have terrible performances right now (even without the SSDs), but bigger projects forces me to bounce in place everything (which is not the end of the world to me). 

My job is: i compose for libraries but also record bands. Pop and rock are my main thing, but I'm investing a lot into the cinematic / orchestral world (libraries, courses...).

If you were me, what would you do?

Upgrade now, improve your system's performance as you can and work to buy a new computer somewhere in the future or save now, keeping your system as it is, to buy a better machine on a near future?


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 23, 2019)

A Fusion drive is perfectly fine for projects. And you could get away with using one SSD for your system and libraries.


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## musiccorner (May 23, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> A Fusion drive is perfectly fine for projects. And you could get away with using one SSD for your system and libraries.



Thank you for you answer!!

The Fusion Drive is internal (one 128gb SSD with 1tb HDD 5400rpm), so the system is already there. Even to do what you suggest i'll need at least 2 ssds (since 128gb is not enough for my system alone - using 380gb here).

On top of that, i read that is better to split tasks between ssds, so if i take this direction the plan is: 2 internal SSDs (one 500gb for system, other 2gb for libraries) and one external (500 gb) for projects.

Bad idea?


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 23, 2019)

It's certainly not a bad idea, but I personally would just use the internal drive for projects and put your sample libraries on an SSD (or two).

You'll hear differing opinions on whether it's better to split tasks between SSDs. Between spinning drives, yes (not including projects, which are fine on the system drive). But SSDs, well, it wouldn't be my top priority.

One thing I would suggest is a backup drive for everything - regardless of anything else. 4TB drives were about $100 last time I looked, about 1/4 the price of SSD storage.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 23, 2019)

By the way, I do happen to have three SSDs in my main machine - a system one and two sample drives - but that's only because I added them one at a time, not because I planned it that way.


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## musiccorner (May 24, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> It's certainly not a bad idea, but I personally would just use the internal drive for projects and put your sample libraries on an SSD (or two).
> 
> You'll hear differing opinions on whether it's better to split tasks between SSDs. Between spinning drives, yes (not including projects, which are fine on the system drive). But SSDs, well, it wouldn't be my top priority.
> 
> One thing I would suggest is a backup drive for everything - regardless of anything else. 4TB drives were about $100 last time I looked, about 1/4 the price of SSD storage.



Thank you Nick! Good to know.

As i already have an LaCie 3tb, i would use that for backup! 

So, from my understanding, regardless how many SSDs to buy, you would take the upgrade-now route instead of buying-new-computer-later. Am i right?


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## Morning Coffee (May 24, 2019)

So you have two hard drive slots in the Mac mini already? Sounds like a good setup.


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## musiccorner (May 24, 2019)

Morning Coffee said:


> So you have two hard drive slots in the Mac mini already? Sounds like a good setup.



Yes! I have two SATA III slots.


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## ptram (May 24, 2019)

I have more or less the same Mac mini (2012, Quad i7, but a bit slower). Since you can upgrade it, you can improve some critical parts, like replacing the Fusion Drive with proper SSDs. The Thunderbolt 2 and USB 3 ports allow for high-speed connection of external drives.

With the tools and instructions supplied by MacFixIt it is easy to replace the internal drives with a 1T SSD. As for the external drives, I would suggest to only separate them in two: one for reading libraries, another one for recording and editing. Then, the mandatory Time Machine backup drive suggested by Nick.

In the end, the old Mac mini is half speed than the new one. But it is already a lot for what you want to do. And maxing it is relatively inexpensive, and very easy.

Paolo


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## Morning Coffee (May 24, 2019)

I wanted to get the 2012 Mac mini i7 quad core for a long time, but I thought the prices people were asking for them on the 2nd hand market were ridiculous haha.

So you either have the sever model or used a data doubler kit for dual sata slots? The 2012 model is good because it has so many different connections, firewire, usb3, thunderbolt, SDXC card slot. The only thing I would be wary about with the 2012 model is, will you be able to upgrade to the next version of MacOS? If you don't need to upgrade your software and are happy with its speed, I'd probably keep it for another year or two or three!


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## musiccorner (May 24, 2019)

ptram said:


> I have more or less the same Mac mini (2012, Quad i7, but a bit slower). Since you can upgrade it, you can improve some critical parts, like replacing the Fusion Drive with proper SSDs. The Thunderbolt 2 and USB 3 ports allow for high-speed connection of external drives.
> 
> With the tools and instructions supplied by MacFixIt it is easy to replace the internal drives with a 1T SSD. As for the external drives, I would suggest to only separate them in two: one for reading libraries, another one for recording and editing. Then, the mandatory Time Machine backup drive suggested by Nick.
> 
> ...



I didn't knew about MacFixIt. Thanks! 

And yeah! I´m thinking about this exact setup, only with the exception of being two internals (we have two slots on our machines) and one external.


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## musiccorner (May 24, 2019)

Morning Coffee said:


> So you either have the sever model or used a data doubler kit for dual sata slots?



My Mini is not server but I'm almost 100% certain that all 2012 Mac Minis do have two slots. Mine, for example, is a Fusion Drive (128g SSD + 1tb HDD - both Sata III).



Morning Coffee said:


> The only thing I would be wary about with the 2012 model is, will you be able to upgrade to the next version of MacOS?



I cannot speak for Apple, but i think i will. I have the latest OSX version and receive all the updates since 2013 (the year i bought it!)


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## Morning Coffee (May 24, 2019)

musiccorner said:


> My Mini is not server but I'm almost 100% certain that all 2012 Mac Minis do have two slots. Mine, for example, is a Fusion Drive (128g SSD + 1tb HDD - both Sata III).



Oh ok, my mistake. I always thought the Apple fushion drive was a SSHD, which is a spinning hard drive with a smaller capacity SSD component built into a single unit, and that it only took up one Sata slot. (I have a Seagate Firecuda SSHD in my laptop). I guess Apple have them in separate slots then.


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## gpax (May 24, 2019)

musiccorner said:


> ... but bigger projects forces me to bounce in place everything (which is not the end of the world to me).


Yet I also hear you saying you’d desire more freedom in your workflow now, even as your pragmatic workarounds and future-proofing considerations are well-noted. FWIW, Nick’s input is worth it’s weight in gold. 

I come at this from a hardware processing standpoint, which is to also say imagine where you will be in that next year or two, workflow wise. At some point, the demand for a later processor will prevail. But if upgrades with your existing configuration can give you the headroom you need now, and in the interim, let the future take care of itself. It may not be an either/or budgeting choice against that future at all as you head down the road. 

And, unlike memory, you can take your SSDs and backup with you. But if you are actually seeing a limit to the raw processing power of that 2012 Mac mini now, then that answers the question for you. 

This unsolicited advice coming from someone who is seduced by new releases. Go figure. But I did hit a threshold with a 2008 Mac Pro, where by 2015, it was clear that my fortune in expanding that workflow could not compete with newer processing needs.


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## gpax (May 24, 2019)

Morning Coffee said:


> Oh ok, my mistake. I always thought the Apple fushion drive was a SSHD, which is a spinning hard drive with a smaller capacity SSD component built into a single unit, and that it only took up one Sata slot. (I have a Seagate Firecuda SSHD in my laptop). I guess Apple have them in separate slots then.


Wow, I learned something as well, though am wondering if the later fusion drive, such as in my previous iMac was more the hybrid type (I too presumed they were as well).

Anyway, here’s an older article I just found, not doubting the OP who actually has it in his hands:

https://www.macworld.com/article/2013805/fusion-drive-an-overview.html


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## Prockamanisc (May 24, 2019)

The new Mac Pro is likely to be announced in about at week and a half. I would at least wait and see what that's going to look like before you pull the trigger on anything. 

That said, my experience with the Mac Mini 2012 is this: for every $1,000 I save by buying a weaker computer and then incorporating peripherals, I spend about $1,000 in peripherals.


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## musiccorner (May 24, 2019)

gpax said:


> And, unlike memory, you can take your SSDs and backup with you.



Yes. This is true! Its not like I'm wasting money on something that will get no use in the future. Thank you for your input!



gpax said:


> Anyway, here’s an older article I just found, not doubting the OP who actually has it in his hands:



Very interesting article @gpax ! Thank you. And you're not doubting me at all. What i said is that they're separate drives and the article confirmed that: _"A Fusion Drive consists of two separate drives—one hard drive and one solid-state drive—that are “fused” together. Apple uses software to create a single volume out of the two drives"
_
I've asked to an Apple Authorized Service Provider in my city if its possible to put 2 SSDs inside and use them as separated drives, and they told me that this was possible.



Prockamanisc said:


> The new Mac Pro is likely to be announced in about at week and a half. I would at least wait and see what that's going to look like before you pull the trigger on anything.



Thank you for your advice, but unfortunately the Pro is way out of my budget. If i need one year or two to get a new Mini, i would need 10 to get a Pro (by my reality today, of course! Who knows what future brings?).



Prockamanisc said:


> That said, my experience with the Mac Mini 2012 is this: for every $1,000 I save by buying a weaker computer and then incorporating peripherals, I spend about $1,000 in peripherals.



That is a good way of thinking. But you think the 2018 Mini is weak for my kind of work? I mean:

3.2GHz 6‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i7 (Turbo Boost up to 4.6GHz)
Up to 64gb DDR4 2666MHz ram
Up to 2tb SSD PCIe
4 Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports

Its a solid computer to me. Specially for the price range, compared to other Apple computers.


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## musiccorner (May 24, 2019)

musiccorner said:


> Its a solid computer to me. Specially for the price range, compared to other Apple computers.



Actually, i do think the 2018 Mini has a big con to take into consideration. Almost everything is tied together (i don't know the right term in english for that. Glued components?). Except for Ram, the storage and even its usb ports are attached to the logical board.

Meaning that, besides the lack of upgrade possibilities, after 3 years (of extended Apple guarantee), almost any hardware problem can be an expensive problem.


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## Prockamanisc (May 24, 2019)

I still say to wait a week and see what the Mac Pro is about. It likely will be out of your current price range, but it also may afford you an opportunity to upgrade as you go. 

The problem with Mac Minis is that they have no real room for expanded storage, without using external drives. Inevitably, you're going to want more and more and more libraries, and it's going to fill up. So I would plan for that eventuality. They're great starter computers, but once you're ready for something bigger, you're better off saving for a Pro. It always makes sense to buy something that you can grow into. 

So I would suggest:
1) Upgrade the 2012 Mini with a 2TB SSD, revel in that performance increase. 
2) Save up for the Mac Pro (as long as it looks like its a good machine)
3) Buy the Mac Pro, and bring the 2TB SSD that you bought for your 2012 Mini over and make it a sample drive on the new machine.


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## ptram (May 24, 2019)

I personally like to have all drives that are not the startup drive out of the box. This way, you can easily move data from one workstation to the other.

Newer computers are more capable than older ones, but with Apple it is also true that newer also means less expandable. And some additional expense to be considered for adapter cables 

Paolo


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## gpax (May 24, 2019)

Prockamanisc said:


> That said, my experience with the Mac Mini 2012 is this: for every $1,000 I save by buying a weaker computer and then incorporating peripherals, I spend about $1,000 in peripherals.


There must be a name for this principle, like Newton's Apple Law, lol.


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## gpax (May 24, 2019)

Prockamanisc said:


> So I would suggest:
> 
> 2) Save up for the Mac Pro (as long as it looks like its a good machine)


But there are SO many options available in between a 2012 Mac mini and a yet-to-be released Mac Pro, are there not?

Advocating for expandability is certainly a viable argument, insofar as it is actually needed and will get used. But you know, I’m now using a new 2019 iMac, and even with its “closed” architecture, I would still advocate this beast for a range of users' budgets and needs.

I see nothing in the OP’s decision making process that makes the case for why he should not work within his budget sooner, including his projected use, at a lesser expense than saving up for a Pro machine, even as the new Mac minis aren’t exactly cheap.

EDIT: In other words, I think your #1 piece of advice is good : )


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## musiccorner (May 24, 2019)

Before anything, thanks to you all for all the great advices and points of view.

Today was a day of great news and projects and with it an opportunity to get the new Mini sooner (couple months) came. 

In that case, i think i´ll just save money to get it asap and solve all my problems right now (not only ssd, but also processor, ram...).

Meanwhile, i´ll have the chance to check out the new mac pro, even knowing that this is just to delude myself. lol


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 24, 2019)

musiccorner said:


> So, from my understanding, regardless how many SSDs to buy, you would take the upgrade-now route instead of buying-new-computer-later. Am i right?



I can't answer that, but I will say that SSDs are a far bigger upgrade than a new computer, and you can use drives you buy now with your next machine.


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## ridgero (May 24, 2019)

I would wait for the Mac Pro Release, maybe the old one will have a big price drop.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 24, 2019)

ridgero said:


> I would wait for the Mac Pro Release, maybe the old one will have a big price drop.



Typically that hasn't happened with Macs.

But then "typically" they were out of date before you unpacked the carton, and now they're good for more than ten years.

Who knows. I think the old wisdom still applies: there's always a better one around the corner, so you update when your current toy doesn't do what you need it to and don't drive yourself crazy with buyer's remorse.


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## Elephant (May 24, 2019)

@musiccorner - have you tried loading the type and size of orchestral projects you are aiming for with the libraries and courses ? Maybe a good first step is loading up a big orchestral project, and seeing whether and where the machine starts wheezing - i.e. have you run into the 16GB RAM limit or the processor limit or both ? By the time you have done your testing, the new Mac Pro will be out. If nothing breaks sweat, then great - but if it does, you will have more info and people will be able to help you better. What do you think Nick ?


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 24, 2019)

Elephant said:


> What do you think Nick ?



I think having libraries on SSDs helps with both performance and memory (because you can use smaller buffers)!

As I said, SSDs are a far bigger upgrade than a new computer.


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## musiccorner (May 24, 2019)

Elephant said:


> have you tried loading the type and size of orchestral projects you are aiming for with the libraries and courses ?



That's a good question and the answer is yes.

Basically, i can work on a section-by-section bases before i have to bounce everything in place. Almost every time i´ve tried was impossible to have multiple sections as midi and with lots of plugins. As i said originally, the "bounce in place" thing is not the end of the world to me, but i know its helpful to have the original tracks with its settings and midi files and be able to load an full template is a nice bonus. Again, take into consideration that i don't have any SSDs besides my 128GB fusion drive internally.

The same goes for large mixing projects (i work with bands too). Some plugins i just can't use like i´m supposed to (e.g. waves NLS on every single channel) and i have to be careful with my processing. I´m more of a mixer than anything, so i do a lot (automation, side chain, processing, fx and so on - most of my clients are modern pop / rock, wich asks fot that kinds of processing). 99% of my mixing projects only runs well with bounced in place files. I can only mix without this if its something light, like a singer / songwriter project.

Sometimes i have to bounce in place before my vocal recording sessions because the system is slow and crashes with clients watching.

Well, i think that sums it all!


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## musiccorner (May 24, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> SSDs helps with both performance and memory (because you can use smaller buffers)!



Wow!! That is new to me. And good to know!

Now I'm thinking...

Ok! The worst thing that can happen, as you already said, is the SSDs not solving the problem and i putting back the old ones to use the same SSDs with a new machine.

What i have to loose?

You've convinced me! I´ll take the SSD route first!!

Thank you Nick!


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## Hasici (May 24, 2019)

As I read this, the thing is even the new mac mini may not guarantee that you won't need to bounce tracks. In which case you would spend tons of money and still have basically the same issues. With kontakt the SSD changes things dramatically. I use something that can be equivalent to old mac mini but in PC world (HP elitedesk) and the one that has all SSD is super quick to use with kontakt. The one with harddrive takes forever to load kontakt libraries.


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## ridgero (May 26, 2019)

I am personally saving for a iMac i9 with 1 TB SSD, 8 GB RAM.

Upgrading to 64 GB Ram (2x 32 GB) - to give myself the option for an easy upgrade to 128 GB in the future. I think this machine will last for the next 5-8 years then.

And I am sure it will still be worth some good money.


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## brunocoliveira (May 28, 2019)

What would you guys do:

1- MacMini 2018, everything maxed-up except RAM, which I will upgrade to 64GB by myself buying them at OWC

2- Do the same but with the iMac 27?


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## synthnut1 (May 29, 2019)

ridgero,
My plan was similar to yours until I was told about how noisy the fans are in the new iMac....The cooling system is not the same as the one in the iMac Pro.....Jim

I’ll probably do a mini, or build another PC....Apple has not done us musicians any favors in the last few years unless we pay top dollar .....PC’s continue to be a bargain $4$......Jim


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## musiccorner (Jun 1, 2019)

@brunocoliveira @synthnut1

I just put SSD´s on my Mini (Late 2012). I wanted to start from scratch (to clean lots of things) so I´m reinstalling pretty much everything now. As soon as I got everything working fine, I´ll tell you how its working for me.


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## gpax (Jun 1, 2019)

synthnut1 said:


> ridgero,
> My plan was similar to yours until I was told about how noisy the fans are in the new iMac....The cooling system is not the same as the one in the iMac Pro.....Jim
> 
> I’ll probably do a mini, or build another PC....Apple has not done us musicians any favors in the last few years unless we pay top dollar .....PC’s continue to be a bargain $4$......Jim


Where are you getting your information? If you mean fans revving from thermal throttling, this seems to have been largely resolved for the 2019 iMac. Not just citing my experience, but there are a number of online demonstrations showing the improved efficiency, including one running a huge Logic template with tons of reverbs on each instance before the machine breaks a sweat.

While the cooling is different, I believe the new chip architecture is what is being touted as reducing the heat as well.

Anyway, the normal operating fan speed is slightly louder on my 2019 compared to my previous late 2014, but I barely hear it. Unless I’m only running one flute, maybe. 

But if others are now reporting loud fans or throttling now with the 2019, I would be interested in hearing about this. As with anything new, some things may surface... I personally have been very happy with this beast.


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## synthnut1 (Jun 1, 2019)

Read this thread
*How much RAM for 2019 iMac i9*


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## synthnut1 (Jun 2, 2019)

I took my older iMac to Apple for repair....They don’t even have or allowed to use any disc repair or disc first aid in the Apple near me....They tell you how old your machine is and that it’s time for a new one....The iMac runs warm as it is.....The iMac pro has 2 internal cooling fans that run low speed and quiet...The standard iMac has only 1 so it will come on under load....Mac Rumors has some good threads about it.....


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## ptram (Jun 2, 2019)

Something to consider with headless Macs: the newest ones can't work with OSs older than Mojave. This means that you will probably need a new monitor, since Mojave can't show clear fonts on non-Retina displays.

Paolo


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## gdoubleyou (Jun 3, 2019)

I'm about to pull the trigger on a six core i7 Mini, currently have a maxed out 2012 2.3 Ghz quad mini.
With two hard drives(Data Doubler) 16 GB RAM.

Maybe because I have an Apollo I've never run out of CPU.
I also have a 2011 MBP Looks like I'd have to hack it to install Mojave, I just don't want to hack my main machine.

I will have to invest in a TB storage solution.
Could get away with an enclosure, I have a collection of FW800 drives that will work for the time being.


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## synthnut1 (Jun 4, 2019)

I’m also thinking Mac mini i7 6 core....512 ssd for os and apps, and tb ssd’s for samples and vocals....Hopefully, hdmi 2.0 for a Hd tv for a monitor....


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## musiccorner (Jun 5, 2019)

Coming to give feedback about my decision (upgrade on 2012 Mini).

I put 2 SSDs inside (one with 500gb for system e other with 2tb for libraries) and bought one external (500 gb) thru USB 3.0 for projects.

On top of that, my audio interface has USB 2.0 and Firewire connections, so I switched from USB 2.0 to the Firewire one (since Mini supports it).

On the software side, I reinstalled everything, except libraries.

OS, Logic, other softwares, plugins, everything.

Which was good for 2 reasons: 1- Since I bought this machine, I never done a real clean up. 2- My setup is a lot simpler now then was before. I think this has to do with the experience over the years. I reduced lots of plugins and even instruments down to the essentials to my workflow. Less things installed, less headaches (in many ways).

SO....WORTH IT??

Yeeeeeeeesssss!!! I´m loving it. This was a huge step up from my previous experiences. A good lesson was made for me too: Don't buy something new until you reach the very limit with what you have.

And what I mean about "limit" is the very last stage when working is close to impossible.

My computer now has the same performance as an 28 core 2019 Mac Pro? Of course not. Even with a surprisingly good performance opening my old orchestral sessions with many channels, I know that from time to time i´ll need to freeze or Bounce In Place something. That's ok. That's at least $5000 cheaper!

This upgrade was enough for me to say: "Ok! I´m good with computers for now. Let's make some music!"


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## synthnut1 (Jun 5, 2019)

Congrats with your new setup....It’s nice to hear that someone gets some more use out of what they already have...I’m still leaning towards a new mini.....Jim


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