# Just a stupid 'soon it's Black Friday and I'm thinking of buying a reverb' thread



## curry36 (Nov 11, 2021)

Hey guys

I got new speakers and new converters and I'm finally able to listen to depth and 3-dimensionality. So I checked my reverbs and found out that most of them don't go that deep as I wish. Out of my collection the only one considered to be top level is the Lexicon PCM bundle, and also this one was the only one of my plugins that got me that sort of depth.

Due to upcoming Black Friday I wonder if changing to Liquid Sonics makes sense, because everyone is hyping Cinematic Rooms right now. Is it really a step forward coming from Lexicon PCM regarding resolution and depth? And if so, how about the Seventh Heaven?

I'll demo it on the weekend but I'd like to hear some opinions as well.


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## Zanshin (Nov 11, 2021)

You can demo both CRP and 7HP. It's subjective, listen to your ears not us


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## fakemaxwell (Nov 11, 2021)

The "next step" of the Lexicon plugins are the Exponential Audio reverbs, which you can also demo.


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## Zanshin (Nov 11, 2021)

Yup, maybe demo Sonsig too:









Sonsig Rev-A - Relab Development ApS


UPDATE COMING SOON! – M1 Native & VST3 (FREE for purchasers) Take the next step on the evolutionary path of digital reverb Sonsig Rev-A Classic Algorithmic Reverb – Revitalized Sonsig Rev-A combines traditional true-stereo algorithmic reverb with advanced modern filter and modulation controls in...




relabdevelopment.com


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## easyrider (Nov 11, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I got new speakers and new converters and I'm finally able to listen to depth and 3-dimensionality. So I checked my reverbs and found out that most of them don't go that deep as I wish. Out of my collection the only one considered to be top level is the Lexicon PCM bundle, and also this one was the only one of my plugins that got me that sort of depth.
> 
> ...


No IMHO

Lexicon native Reverb Bundle is an end game Reverb imo….I stopped looking or gassing ever since I got it.

I have hundreds of reverbs and wish I just bought the Lexicon Bundle sooner…


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## kgdrum (Nov 11, 2021)

If you want to get a different flavor than a typical Lexicon than I wholeheartedly agree that Liquidsonics is definitely worth looking at. The extremely talented wizardly magician developer behind the Liquidsonics curtain Matt also has a sister company: Reverb Foundry which has HD Cart which is a fabulous take on a very rare and special Lexicon (which is currently on sale) and the next release will also be under the Reverb Foundry label. Both companies have a very user friendly discount program that gives people great discount coupons from previous purchases towards all of the products available from either company,they can be stacked and can also be applied on top of the BF discounts so potentially you can get some amazing discounts!
You might want to look at this thread: 



https://vi-control.net/community/threads/confessions-of-a-reverb-junkie-hd-cart-another-great-reverb-from-the-developer-behind-liquidsonics.113763/


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## clisma (Nov 11, 2021)

Definitely, Liquidsonics is a great developer for everything Reverb (Cinematic Rooms does 'transparent' extremely well).

As mentioned above, it is all quite simply very subjective, so listen, listen, listen and try, try, try if you see available demos. As far as what developers in addition, again, tastes vary, but another one I'll throw in is Flux Verb3. Once you spend enough time to understand its parameters, it can sound pretty phenomenal.


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## Thundercat (Nov 11, 2021)

easyrider said:


> No IMHO
> 
> Lexicon native Reverb Bundle is an end game Reverb imo….I stopped looking or gassing ever since I got it.
> 
> I have hundreds of reverbs and wish I just bought the Lexicon Bundle sooner…


Years ago I spent $1,000 on this Lexicon plugin (I know it's so much cheaper now). It's good, and the bonus is the cool "waterfall" graphics showing the reflections (more fun to watch than functional for me tho lol). I like 7th Heaven better most of the time myself.


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## easyrider (Nov 11, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> Years ago I spent $1,000 on this Lexicon plugin (I know it's so much cheaper now). It's good, and the bonus is the cool "waterfall" graphics showing the reflections (more fun to watch than functional for me tho lol). I like 7th Heaven better most of the time myself.


It all subjective. 👍


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## Henu (Nov 11, 2021)

Lexicon is just pure super in a plugin form. Can't really think doing any bigger project without it.

But as it's become a bit too unreliable for me (crashes, Ilok issues), I've been secretly awaiting for CRP to go on sale since the summer.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Nov 11, 2021)

Reverbs are insanely overrated. The one you have is very good.


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## Thundercat (Nov 11, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> If you want to get a different flavor than a typical Lexicon than I wholeheartedly agree that Liquidsonics is definitely worth looking at. The extremely talented wizardly magician developer behind the Liquidsonics curtain Matt also has a sister company: Reverb Foundry which has HD Cart which is a fabulous take on a very rare and special Lexicon (which is currently on sale) and the next release will also be under the Reverb Foundry label. Both companies have a very user friendly discount program that gives people great discounts towards all of the products available from either company,they can be stacked and can also be applied on top of the BF discounts so you can get some great discounts .
> You might want to look at this thread:
> 
> 
> ...


Damn that is GORGEOUS!

From one 12-step Reverb-a-holic to another, thanks, I officially fell off the wagon and bought it (without even listening to it first because I LOVE Matt's stuff and I got it for about $26). Now I'm drunk on the sound.

THANK-YOU kgdrum!


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## Thundercat (Nov 11, 2021)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Reverbs are insanely overrated. The one you have is very good.


Not sure about that. I've got so many I'm embarrassed but some definitely sound and work better to my ears. The HD Cart is simply fabulous. I can't wait to use it with my fav piano SSS Grand.


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## kgdrum (Nov 11, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> Damn that is GORGEOUS!
> 
> From one 12-step Reverb-a-holic to another, thanks, I officially fell off the wagon and bought it (without even listening to it first because I LOVE Matt's stuff and I got it for about $26). Now I'm drunk on the sound.
> 
> THANK-YOU kgdrum!




For me being a Reverb-a-holic involves acceptance that the path we take is comprised of infinite steps………...It’s beautiful isn’t it? 🎶❤️🎶Another VI-C member @Jack Weaver actually had the hardware 480 with the HD card and also loves this release (his comments are in the thread) I’m really curious to see what the next Reverb Foundry release will be………


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## Henu (Nov 11, 2021)

I checked out HD Cart but for me it was way too clogged. I get it- they say it's dense, but it was definitely _too_ dense for my taste in general as I prefer more airy stuff personally. 

However, the cheapskate in me wonders how much the loyalty discount is if I get HD Cart and then CPR from the sales (whenever that happens). Does anyone know how much owning HD Cart drops the price of CPR and does the discount stack with the sales?


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## Drjay (Nov 11, 2021)

20% or 25%. Can‘t remember. It‘s mentioned on the HD Cart page.


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## Junolab (Nov 11, 2021)

I sold CRP last year as I don't use it enough, but I'm going to buy it again this year. It's just nice to have a very hifi reverb, and I kinda like it's algorithmic so I can choose whatever setting and bend it to my liking. Also have 7HP which I dig and it could be enough but.... Would love a more dirty reverb from Matt soon. I know Reverberate has a few good ones but I'm still not 100% satisfied with the workflow of Reverberate (or any other IR-loading type of plugin). Matt told me it would be the same prices as last year's BF, so try out a few and consider one or two. There's great discounts if you own more plugins.


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## Junolab (Nov 11, 2021)

Quick question: HD Cart is the Lexicon 480L sound right? Anyone compared it to Relabs LX480 or UADs version?


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## jcrosby (Nov 11, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I got new speakers and new converters and I'm finally able to listen to depth and 3-dimensionality. So I checked my reverbs and found out that most of them don't go that deep as I wish. Out of my collection the only one considered to be top level is the Lexicon PCM bundle, and also this one was the only one of my plugins that got me that sort of depth.
> 
> ...


I'll take the unpopular road as well Jimmy... You have some solid reverbs. The trick to creating depth with reverb isn't what reverb you use, so much as understanding how to create contrast in the depth of field. In order for some things to appear at the back of the mix you need to have some things appear at the front, others in the middle...

What would get you better results, regardless of whether you buy another reverb plugin or two is understanding how to set your ERs properly (and when necessary), how pre-delay affects depth, and ideally the reverb allows you to adjust the balance between ER & tail.

It's also important to understand the difference between reverb algorithms. When/why would you use a room, hall, chamber, or plate? Plates often don't create the same level of depth as a hall, but some plate algorithms do create more depth than others. So a digital plate might be a great choice for synths (and often is), or might be a nice way to add some extra tail to something that already has a lot of burned in ER information... Some room algorithms can actually sound deeper than some halls depending on how you set your reverb, etc.

That isn't to say that having a few options isn't a good thing, or that all reverbs are equal... Some sound nicer than others, but assuming you can't create the same depth of field with what you have isn't really the best mindset, that's essentially like buying an EQ and only using presets, then assuming the EQ isn't very good because you didn't work with the EQ as intended - by tailoring it to fit your content...

Most modern reverb plugins can all create depth effectively and it really comes down to knowing how your set a reverb in order to achieve the depth of field you want...

So basically having a few options s a great thing... And you may find one adds a little more depth than another, but that real depth - (unreal to be more precise) - happens in your brain, and is the result of having the right balance of contrasting depths of field.


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## Joël Dollié (Nov 11, 2021)

Lexicon PCM random hall is up there.. CRP sounds different, a little bigger in general. VSS3 is a little wider due to the way it processes the sound internally so you get really nice wide ER.. I think slightly more ''deep'' and cinematic sounding than a lexicon

But at the same time PCM gives you some of the best tails ever made, definitely a better tail than VSS3. Prime choice for a pop vocal. So it just kinda depends.

If I were you I would try running lexicon PCM random hall and VSS3 with similar settings in parallel


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## Nando Florestan (Nov 11, 2021)

The problem with buying a new reverb is that then you want to hear it, and your next tracks will suffer.

People are using way too much reverb nowadays, it's not natural.


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## Junolab (Nov 11, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> The problem with buying a new reverb is that then you want to hear it, and your next tracks will suffer.
> 
> People are using way too much reverb nowadays, it's not natural.


Very true on the first sentence, but IMO reverb doesn't have to be natural. It can be an effect like any other and it's a reason old digital dirty reverbs is still a thing.


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## curry36 (Nov 15, 2021)

Thanks for all the input! I couln't get to testing the demos yet but I'll for sure have a look on Exponential Audio, Liquid Sonics and Relab! 

Meanwhile I found this crazy BF bundle which includes Phoenix Verb and R2 for only 50 bucks! 





VST Plugins, Synth Presets, Effects, Virtual Instruments, Music


VST Plugins, Synth Presets, Effects, Virtual Instruments, Music Plugins from Pluginboutique




www.pluginboutique.com





How do R2 and R4 differ btw? Is it just the ammount of channels or also the sound and algorythm of the reverb?


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## quickbrownf0x (Nov 15, 2021)

Is Zebra3 out yet? If not - Cinematic Rooms. Obviously.


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## kgdrum (Nov 15, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Thanks for all the input! I couln't get to testing the demos yet but I'll for sure have a look on Exponential Audio, Liquid Sonics and Relab!
> 
> Meanwhile I found this crazy BF bundle which includes Phoenix Verb and R2 for only 50 bucks!
> 
> ...




That’s actually pretty crazy expensive for Phoenixverb and R2,they often get more extreme discounts nowadays.I think the PluginBoutique has had the best deal with these recently. They are both nice reverbs but EA updated and replaced R2 and PhoenixVerb with R4 & Nimbus. I would advise waiting until BF /Holiday sales totally kick in gear.

Here’s a good review and explanation from SOS.






Exponential Audio R4


Exponential Audio have hot-rodded their ‘character’ reverb, and the results are even more characterful!




www.soundonsound.com


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## Wes Antczak (Nov 15, 2021)

Don't know whether CPU usage is a consideration, but one thing also to be said for Lexicon and Exponential is that coming from the hardware world Michael Carnes was extremely good at making highly efficient code.


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## Soundbed (Nov 15, 2021)

My main verb has been R4 for a while.

I've seen it as low as £24.95 GBP / $29 USD.

If you don't already know: it was developed by a Lexicon guy, Michael Carnes, after he started Exponential Audio. I think it has many of the good features from Lexicon, at a nice price.

This old interview (link below) points out that R2 was developed a little to sound "unreal" ... which may be why I prefer it. I enjoy a bit of imagination in my productions where things sound a bit "extra" and there's some subtle modulations going on in R2 and R4 that help things sound a little "wow" in a good way.





__





Interview: Michael Carnes


If you’re familiar with the sound of Lexicon reverbs then you’re familiar with the work of Michael Carnes. He’s now channeling over 25 years’ experience into his own company, Exponential Audio, and sharing a few of his secrets with MT…




musictech.com





He said about R2 that is was: 


> designed for when you don’t necessarily want your reverb to sound real. You can certainly bring it to a place where it’s fairly convincing as a real space, but the essential part of this algorithm is modulation



If you want more realism from Exponential, you might prefer PhoenixVerb? I don't know, I haven't gravitated toward that, which is again why some of these choices are based on taste and preferences rather than "better".

I plan to test Cinematic Rooms someday — mostly because of the hype, to see what I might be missing. They offer discounts if you have other products from Liquid Sonics or the sister company as previously mentioned.


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## curry36 (Nov 15, 2021)

Funny - I've read about Michael Carnes just today for the first time. 
And yes - that makes EA very interesting for me. Can't wait to demo.

I'll def wait with any purchases. 30$ sounds insane, the plugin costs 200 if not on sale if I remember correctly,, def worth waiting! 

I'm also owning Relab LX480 which doesn't make for the best orchestral room/chamber but has an extraordinary hall tail. So I think a reverb, that can do the roomy thing would be a great addition to the 480. Right now I'm tending more towards Cinematic Rooms and Phoenix/Nimbus, but feels like I just need to test them first.

In the end what interests me most is a reverb that does this 'deep behind' thing, the 3D which I couldn't even notice before I had different speakers and converters. I know that in the end, the customer probably won't notice either, but I don't care - since I'm able to hear this insane depth, I wan't to get inspired by playing and feeling and hearing this depth.

To give an example of what didn't do that depth for me: Valhalla. I used to like it in the past, it was cheap, its not hungry, it can quickly sound good and work - but - on a very very precise point of view I'd argue that it's selling you the illusion of 3-dimensionality without really going that deep, whereas the Lexicon PCM I own already (and the Relab Lx480) are def getting a bit further in that regard.

Hope I'm not sounding rude in a way like 'you cant make music without a real 3-dimensional deep reverb'. Not at all, please excuse if it sounds if that was my opinion. I'm just very audiophile and perfectionist and I'm trying to max my game wherever I can. And I have to admit that this is sometimes slowing me down but I can't change the way I work.


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## Philip Vasta (Nov 15, 2021)

If I can add on a question: how is LiquidSonics Reverberate 3? Cinematic Rooms seems intriguing, but I have a hard time spending quite that much on a reverb when I already have some algorithmic ones. Reverberate 3 is much cheaper and is convolution, but I don't hear anyone mention it much.


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## TracksInTheBox (Nov 15, 2021)

Philip Vasta said:


> If I can add on a question: how is LiquidSonics Reverberate 3? Cinematic Rooms seems intriguing, but I have a hard time spending quite that much on a reverb when I already have some algorithmic ones. Reverberate 3 is much cheaper and is convolution, but I don't hear anyone mention it much.


Reverberate 3 is outstanding. Try the demo, and make sure you download the M7 Fusion IRs.


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## Dirtgrain (Nov 15, 2021)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Reverbs are insanely overrated. The one you have is very good.


Sure, but I still laugh thinking about that thread on Valhalla Room and how it had brown showing up in the spectrogram (or was it yellow?). Good times.


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## jcrosby (Nov 15, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Funny - I've read about Michael Carnes just today for the first time.
> And yes - that makes EA very interesting for me. Can't wait to demo.
> 
> I'll def wait with any purchases. 30$ sounds insane, the plugin costs 200 if not on sale if I remember correctly,, def worth waiting!
> ...


One thing to realize about EA is you only get a single license if that has any relevance to you...

And I'm going to pipe up and disagree about Valhalla. You can get a super deep image with it if you know how to set it. If you have a difficult time getting depth out of VH Room you're not going to find Phoenixverb to be any different, other than it sounding more clinical/colorless/transparent.


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## Markrs (Nov 15, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Thanks for all the input! I couln't get to testing the demos yet but I'll for sure have a look on Exponential Audio, Liquid Sonics and Relab!
> 
> Meanwhile I found this crazy BF bundle which includes Phoenix Verb and R2 for only 50 bucks!
> 
> ...


 That bundle gives you:

Elements Suite
Trash 2
Iris 2
Phoenix Verb
R2
Excalibur
BreakTweaker Expanded
Stutter Edit 2
All for $49 which is an excellent deal!


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## quickbrownf0x (Nov 16, 2021)

Markrs said:


> That bundle gives you:
> 
> Elements Suite
> Trash 2
> ...


................. 







.....


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## khollister (Nov 16, 2021)

Be aware that Izotope purchased EA and has apparently already thrown the EA reverbs on the abandonware pile. Their recent Apple Silicon roadmap made it clear that their priorities are Ozone and RX and almost everything outside of Ozone/Neutron/Nectar/RX products are disposable. They said they have no plans to transition the EA products to Apple Silicon, which also means IMHO, no updates of any type.

It's an inglorious end to the work of a very talented guy. Same issue with the Lexicon PCM native product line - great iconic sound, dead end product support.

If I were starting from scratch today, Liquidsonics/Reverb Factory (same guy), Valhalla, Relab (a bit of a 1 trick pony in my opinion) and UA (if you already have UAD gear) are the main go-to's in ITB reverb today. 

Setting aside the obvious value proposition of Valhalla, if all my verbs disappeared and I had to start over, I would rebuy Cinematic Rooms Pro, HD-Cart, Seventh Heaven Pro and the UAD Lexicon 224/480. If I didn't have the UA Apollo & Satellite, I would probably just stop with the Liquidsonics/Reverb Factory stuff - It's that good IMHO.


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## Junolab (Nov 16, 2021)

If you're a reverb junkie also consider the loyalty program Liquidsonics (incl Reverb Foundry) are having. I think I'm getting approx 70-80% off any sales price that might come for BF or when a new one is released. That's crazy.


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## Junolab (Nov 16, 2021)

Philip Vasta said:


> If I can add on a question: how is LiquidSonics Reverberate 3? Cinematic Rooms seems intriguing, but I have a hard time spending quite that much on a reverb when I already have some algorithmic ones. Reverberate 3 is much cheaper and is convolution, but I don't hear anyone mention it much.


I own it and it's a superb deal to get a lot of bases covered. Personally, I just hate messing around with IRs although the sound is great


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## khollister (Nov 16, 2021)

Junolab said:


> If you're a reverb junkie also consider the loyalty program Liquidsonics (incl Reverb Foundry) are having. I think I'm getting approx 70-80% off any sales price that might come for BF or when a new one is released. That's crazy.


Yup, between BF and loyalty coupons, the Liquidsonics stuff is way more affordable than it might seem. As an example, I got HD-Cart for less than half price (which is already pretty low on a sale) by using loyalty coupons for CRP, 7th Heaven Pro and Lucious Plates. The loyalty coupons all stack too.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 16, 2021)

You mention 3D placement and depth a lot, but the majority of the discussion has been about reverbs that are known for their tails. 

If you’re wanting a greater sense of depth and placement, you’re better off looking at spatial processing plugins that manipulate early reflections and psychoacoustic effects for depth. 

Some of these have REALLY generous demos, so you can take your time to evaluate thoroughly. 

Panagement
2cAudio Precedence/Breeze
Virtual Sound Stage 2
EAReverb 2
SP2016
DearReality VR Pro


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> You mention 3D placement and depth a lot, but the majority of the discussion has been about reverbs that are known for their tails.
> 
> If you’re wanting a greater sense of depth and placement, you’re better off looking at spatial processing plugins that manipulate early reflections and psychoacoustic effects for depth.
> 
> ...


I want all of these! I have two of them, Dear Reality VR Pro sounds very good - both as a reverb alone and for spacial location and movement - good while Panagement2 has some fun modulation of movement.


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## curry36 (Nov 16, 2021)

I need to check those out! I know about VSS2 and I love the concept of mixing while placing instruments on a visible stage all in one GUI. I always wondered if it would work if I'd turn of the reverb tail and just use early reflections und placement together with a tail of my choice.

Edit: Dear Reality VR pro sounds really great! Is there a way to place the instruments in one interface like in VSS2 or Ircam SPAT Revolution?


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2021)

curry36 said:


> I need to check those out! I know about VSS2 and I love the concept of mixing while placing instruments on a visible stage all in one GUI. I always wondered if it would work if I'd turn of the reverb tail and just use early reflections und placement together with a tail of my choice.
> 
> Edit: Dear Reality VR pro sounds really great! Is there a way to place the instruments in one interface like in VSS2 or Ircam SPAT Revolution?


No, I'm afraid not. Unless I'm missing a very well-hidden option (I only just got it and haven't read the manual yet). It seems designed more for creative virtual reality than orchestral placement. It can be used for that, though.


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## curry36 (Nov 16, 2021)

Btw I just discovered this beautiful 3D modular rack - a bit off-topic but it sounds incredible. Wanted to share that with you guys. 



I've also seen some videos of EAReverb. That one sounds like an all-in-one solution for us orchestral composers. Meanwhile the Dear Reality VR seems to be intended for headphone spatial mixes, right? I've seen it getting very unnatrual and phasy on some demos but probably you can tweak it just right for normal stereo mixing situations?


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## Gerbil (Nov 16, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Btw I just discovered this beautiful 3D modular rack - a bit off-topic but it sounds incredible. Wanted to share that with you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> I've also seen some videos of EAReverb. That one sounds like an all-in-one solution for us orchestral composers. Meanwhile the Dear Reality VR seems to be intended for headphone spatial mixes, right? I've seen it getting very unnatrual and phasy on some demos but probably you can tweak it just right for normal stereo mixing situations?



13:40 sounds like a Dalek being waterboarded.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Btw I just discovered this beautiful 3D modular rack - a bit off-topic but it sounds incredible. Wanted to share that with you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> I've also seen some videos of EAReverb. That one sounds like an all-in-one solution for us orchestral composers. Meanwhile the Dear Reality VR seems to be intended for headphone spatial mixes, right? I've seen it getting very unnatrual and phasy on some demos but probably you can tweak it just right for normal stereo mixing situations?



It can be used for different outputs, ambisonic is one, but stereo is another. If you hear a mix intended for one output instead on another I'd expect some minor issues.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Btw I just discovered this beautiful 3D modular rack - a bit off-topic but it sounds incredible. Wanted to share that with you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> I've also seen some videos of EAReverb. That one sounds like an all-in-one solution for us orchestral composers. Meanwhile the Dear Reality VR seems to be intended for headphone spatial mixes, right? I've seen it getting very unnatrual and phasy on some demos but probably you can tweak it just right for normal stereo mixing situations?



I like that modular rack a lot. Too much for me to cope with, but so lovely.


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## clisma (Nov 16, 2021)

In my experience VSS2 does the setup right but there are a couple of problems with it by now:

1. As everyone knows it seems to have been abandoned, so I'm not sure I would invest in such a crucial tool without having the knowledge it will be around for the next OS upgrade.

2. The ERs in my experience, once you start piling on instruments and you've got yourself a whole orchestra, start to sound 'tubey.' Not a great descriptor I know, but that's the quality I remember from regular usage in the past. It could still be useful to you for panning/having a great overview of orchestra placement if you so desire.

Personally, not a fan of the way EAReverb sounds.

SPAT (now Revolution) sounds fantastic to me, but alas it now works outside of your DAW, which for me is a dealbreaker due to Sync issues between SPAT and Logic that Flux and I couldn't overcome. Otherwise it would be in daily use here.

Tried a couple of other tools but either too CPU intensive (Inspirata) or didn't like the sound again (subjective of course; Precedence & Breeze, the latter being the sound I'm not fond of).

So now I use a combo of Convolution/Algo plus Expanse 3D to push things back. At least until new Macs come out. Then it is SPAT for good.


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## rottoy (Nov 16, 2021)

I hope no one comes in to rever_berate_ your choice.


curry36 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I got new speakers and new converters and I'm finally able to listen to depth and 3-dimensionality. So I checked my reverbs and found out that most of them don't go that deep as I wish. Out of my collection the only one considered to be top level is the Lexicon PCM bundle, and also this one was the only one of my plugins that got me that sort of depth.
> 
> ...


I hope no one comes in here to rever_berate_ your choice.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2021)

rottoy said:


> I hope no one comes in to rever_berate_ your choice.
> 
> I hope no one comes in here to rever_berate_ your choice.


The second time it got much funnier! Probably a mistake writing it twice, but it worked!


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## rottoy (Nov 16, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> The second time it got much funnier! Probably a mistake writing it twice, but it worked!


Hahah, I wouldn't have noticed it if you hadn't replied. Wow.


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## clisma (Nov 16, 2021)

About Reverberate: certainly a very useful tool. Allows for a lot of manipulation, two concurrent IRs, lots of great presets and easy to use. When I was trying to replace SPAT with convolution, I found Reverberate to be the easiest to use with the most pristine sound (yes I know they're just IRs but I still heard a difference), though unfortunately I don't remember all the others I tried. So do give it a spin if you can.


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## Thundercat (Nov 16, 2021)

rottoy said:


> I hope no one comes in to rever_berate_ your choice.
> 
> I hope no one comes in here to rever_berate_ your choice.


Frustrated lyricist?

I entered 10 puns in a contest, and none of them won. No pun in ten did.


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## curry36 (Nov 17, 2021)

clisma said:


> About Reverberate: certainly a very useful tool. Allows for a lot of manipulation, two concurrent IRs, lots of great presets and easy to use. When I was trying to replace SPAT with convolution, I found Reverberate to be the easiest to use with the most pristine sound (yes I know they're just IRs but I still heard a difference), though unfortunately I don't remember all the others I tried. So do give it a spin if you can.


Def sounds interesting. I was looking for a good IR that comes with modulation features. I always loved the colour of Altiverb but due to lack of modulation/hybrid combination it lacks soul and life. Would be great to find a better equivalent. Also never decided to buy Altiverb because of that, but I used it a lot during my studies.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 18, 2021)

Matt has stated there’s a new, unique Reverb Foundry algo reverb coming before BF (if at alll possible). It can even do surround if that’s your thing.


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## ip20 (Nov 20, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> That’s actually pretty crazy expensive for Phoenixverb and R2,they often get more extreme discounts nowadays.I think the PluginBoutique has had the best deal with these recently.



What’s a good value to get R2 at?


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 21, 2021)

ip20 said:


> What’s a good value to get R2 at?


Possibly as a free gift, but more likely as part of a bundle. By far the best way is to buy it second hand. If I recall correctly, five to ten dollars should be possible.


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## AdamKmusic (Nov 21, 2021)

Patiently waiting for the cinematic rooms sale...


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 21, 2021)

AdamKmusic said:


> Patiently waiting for the cinematic rooms sale...


I was too. Then, for no reason I can think of, I suddenly bought Stratus 3D as a license transfer. The transfer won't go through for a few days, so Cinematic Rooms might go on sale before I have time to decide if Stratus does the job or not.


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## Soundbed (Nov 21, 2021)

AdamKmusic said:


> Patiently waiting for the cinematic rooms sale...


Is the consensus that if one is going to get Cinematic Rooms (and one already has 20 reverbs which are perfectly fine) then one should be getting Cinematic Rooms PRO ? I was expecting to get standard but now I'm wondering. I don't work in surround but ... there's a couple other seemingly interesting features in Pro.


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## Zanshin (Nov 21, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Is the consensus that if one is going to get Cinematic Rooms (and one already has 20 reverbs which are perfectly fine) then one should be getting Cinematic Rooms PRO ? I was expecting to get standard but now I'm wondering. I don't work in surround but ... there's a couple other seemingly interesting features in Pro.


You can demo both versions. I think Pro is worth it, you might decide different. This might help too:









Which Edition Of Cinematic Rooms Is Right For Me? - LiquidSonics







www.liquidsonics.com


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## Soundbed (Nov 21, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> You can demo both versions. I think Pro is worth it, you might decide different. This might help too:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's a 1% chance I'm going to demo Pro and not get it. I'm looking for someone to talk me out of it. C'mon.


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## Zanshin (Nov 21, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> There's a 1% chance I'm going to demo Pro and not get it. I'm looking for someone to talk me out of it. C'mon.


lol. Alright, umm that wouldn’t be me. Let’s see if someone can step up and do the job right for you!


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## Trash Panda (Nov 21, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> There's a 1% chance I'm going to demo Pro and not get it. I'm looking for someone to talk me out of it. C'mon.


Cinematic Rooms Pro will give you IBS. 
















But the reverberation of the flatulence will be heavenly.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 21, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> There's a 1% chance I'm going to demo Pro and not get it. I'm looking for someone to talk me out of it. C'mon.


It's called 'Cinematic Rooms', not 'Music for TV Rooms'?


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## AdamKmusic (Nov 24, 2021)

I’m starting to wonder if LS will skip this years BF sale? I’d have thought they would’ve announced something by now


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## Junolab (Nov 24, 2021)

AdamKmusic said:


> I’m starting to wonder if LS will skip this years BF sale? I’d have thought they would’ve announced something by now


They told in an email that it would come this week. I think most likely it will start on the actual black Friday


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## AdamKmusic (Nov 25, 2021)

Sale now live!


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## Soundbed (Nov 25, 2021)

AdamKmusic said:


> Sale now live!


Finally!


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## AdamKmusic (Nov 25, 2021)

Is it worth going for the pro version? I demoed both but standard seems to just be fine for me really!

Also it’s weird that they’re a UK company but the prices are in $s


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## Henu (Nov 25, 2021)

Pro gives you more presets if you like them more, and more tweaking possibilities if you like that more. More is more!


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## DJiLAND (Nov 25, 2021)

Very good, I was able to buy CRP for $74. And now we await the release of Seventh Heaven's surround upgrade.
To be honest, I can't really feel the difference between Seventh Heaven and my M7. (Of course there are some differences, but it's almost the same)


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## Buz (Nov 25, 2021)

The pricing is masterful. I'd like to get Tai Chi and then add CRP on loyalty discount. The problem is for 56% more than that you can just have all 7.


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## Junolab (Nov 25, 2021)

Would be fun to hear all which reverbs you use for the various scenarios. Way too many good options here in 2021 :D


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## Soundbed (Nov 25, 2021)

Does anyone know if having a Slate subscription gets you any discounts on Cinematic Rooms? Slate comes with Lustrous Plates and VerbSuite Classics, but I cannot find info on whether or not they qualify me for any discounts....


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## Flyo (Nov 25, 2021)

There is a new offer in town via SSL... FlexVerb from $279.00 to only 29us! anyone tried this one? Im searching for the true very best verb, LX480 essential for 29us 7Heaven standard (for now) for 50us or now the SSL Native Flexverb?


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## Flyo (Nov 25, 2021)

By the way. 
Link: SSL Native - FlexVerb


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 26, 2021)

Flyo said:


> There is a new offer in town via SSL... FlexVerb from $279.00 to only 29us! anyone tried this one? Im searching for the true very best verb, LX480 essential for 29us 7Heaven standard (for now) for 50us or now the SSL Native Flexverb?


The best reverb is always the one you don't have yet.

Also, Exponential Audio's Stratus 3D (for sound and dialogue) and Symphony 3D should be in the running, as should UVI's Sparkverb (creative) and Flux IRCAM Verb (creative and space emulations - it has a preset for 'Small Toilet'). MConvolultonMB sounds excellent to my ears, too.


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## Henu (Nov 26, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> The best reverb is always the one you don't have yet.



I wasn't supposed to, but fell in love with Tai Chi instantly and bought it to replace most of my pop/rock reverbs. And to get a discount for CRP (which I had patiently waited to come to sale) was a really nice bonus too. When CRP went discounted yesterday, I bought it right away.

Then I made the mistake this morning to think that "I could really use a better Bricasti sound too" instead of just using the impulses I have and went to see how much I'd pay for 7th Heaven Pro. Turned out that with Tai Chi and CRP minus deducted taxes, my price was about 73 euros.

I was supposed to buy one reverb. Now I have three new ones. I may have a problem. But damn my problem sounds at least natural, lush and gluey.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 26, 2021)

Henu said:


> I wasn't supposed to, but fell in love with Tai Chi instantly and bought it to replace most of my pop/rock reverbs. And to get a discount for CRP (which I had patiently waited to come to sale) was a really nice bonus too. When CRP went discounted yesterday, I bought it right away.
> 
> Then I made the mistake this morning to think that "I could really use a better Bricasti sound too" instead of just using the impulses I have and went to see how much I'd pay for 7th Heaven Pro. Turned out that with Tai Chi and CRP minus deducted taxes, my price was about 73 euros.
> 
> I was supposed to buy one reverb. Now I have three new ones. I may have a problem. But damn my problem sounds at least natural, lush and gluey.


I have entered a new phase with reverb. From spatialising to subtle so it’s not noticed, to slavver it on ‘cause it’s so darn pretty! I need an intervention.

And yes, shopping for reverb means learning too much about lots of new good reverbs. Add Black Friday into the mix and it is sayonara Santa, Christmas just got cancelled, the kitty is bare.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 26, 2021)

UltraReverb


Free 30-day demo. Comprehensive reverb plug-in features Halls, Chambers, Rooms, Plates, and Ambience derived from Eventide's Harmonizers. Includes compression, EQ, and delay with over 300 presets designed for mixing, post-production, and sound design. For Mac and PC, VST, AAX, AU.




store.eventideaudio.com





Any good to anyone? £38 instead of £152.


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## Tralen (Nov 26, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> You mention 3D placement and depth a lot, but the majority of the discussion has been about reverbs that are known for their tails.
> 
> If you’re wanting a greater sense of depth and placement, you’re better off looking at spatial processing plugins that manipulate early reflections and psychoacoustic effects for depth.
> 
> ...


DearVR Music is on sale for just R$29, it is already very good for instrument placement.


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## Drumdude2112 (Nov 26, 2021)

cant go wrong there (and at savings mind you 😉 )




__





TC Electronic | Product | VSS3 NATIVE







www.tcelectronic.com


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## X-Bassist (Nov 26, 2021)

AdamKmusic said:


> Sale now live!


Wow I thought $249 was fulll price, I guess I need to wait another year or two.😂


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 26, 2021)

DJiLAND said:


> To be honest, I can't really feel the difference between Seventh Heaven and my M7. (Of course there are some differences, but it's almost the same)


Shouldn't be much a difference, Seventh Heaven is a reproduction of the M7 (which you probably know already).


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## clisma (Nov 26, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Shouldn't be much a difference, Seventh Heaven is a reproduction of the M7 (which you probably know already).


We did a shootout between the hardware and 7th heaven a couple of years back on this forum. The audio files are no longer available, so I won't link to it. The consensus was that the hardware still had a slight edge, enveloping the sound just a little better than the software, especially in the low/low mid frequencies. But the difference was negligent and dependent on the material fed into it. Overall, 7th Heaven is very, very close.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 26, 2021)

clisma said:


> We did a shootout between the hardware and 7th heaven a couple of years back on this forum. The audio files are no longer available, so I won't link to it. The consensus was that the hardware still had a slight edge, enveloping the sound just a little better than the software, especially in the low/low mid frequencies. But the difference was negligent and dependent on the material fed into it. Overall, 7th Heaven is very, very close.


Good! I can't afford an M7


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## Russell Anderson (Nov 28, 2021)

I highly recommend checking out Michael White’s youtube channel, Mixing with Mike, for some tips on how to achieve both depth and “coming from the space in front of your speakers” presence with reverb. The tricks I learned in this regard both worked, and were partially seconded by Alan Meyerson in an interview about orchestral mixing, sprcifically regarding the creation of depth with delays. No matter how nice your reverbs are!

…that being said I think I have like 11 really nice reverbs, there is definitely some kind of archetypical addiction*/relationship with reverbs that is commonly had. They’re just so… …you know what I’m saying


edit: spelling


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## curry36 (Nov 29, 2021)

Just saw Nimbus and R4 for 9€ each on plugin botique. I will buy them even without having demoed just because so many ppl talk good about them. Will test them later


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## curry36 (Nov 29, 2021)

Russell Anderson said:


> I highly recommend checking out Michael White’s youtube channel, Mixing with Mike, for some tips on how to achieve both depth and “coming from the space in front of your speakers” presence with reverb. The tricks I learned in this regard both worked, and were partially seconded by Alan Meyerson in an interview about orchestral mixing, sprcifically regarding the creation of depth with delays. No matter how nice your reverbs are!
> 
> …that being said I think I have like 11 really nice reverbs, there is definitely some kind of archetypical addition/relationship with reverbs that is commonly had. They’re just so… …you know what I’m saying


Thanks for the tipp, I will check his videos later!


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## easyrider (Nov 29, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Just saw Nimbus and R4 for 9€ each on plugin botique. I will buy them even without having demoed just because so many ppl talk good about them. Will test them later





https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407777831699-iZotope-Compatibility-with-Apple-silicon



Looks like Izotope are no longer supporting them.


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## Russell Anderson (Nov 29, 2021)

easyrider said:


> https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407777831699-iZotope-Compatibility-with-Apple-silicon
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Izotope are no longer supporting them.


This is pretty much why they’re always so cheap, and it’s a bummer because they haven’t bothered to port all of the parameters to Neoverb, like Early Reflection slope and maybe even a few others. And you’re stuck with 2x the cpu on Neoverb, since both Nimbus/R4 are basically running in parallel.

Didn’t expect your profile to show up here, but @Michael Carnes , thanks for your awesome reverbs, both for Lexicon and especially in my case Nimbus and R4. I hope Izotope does them a little bit more justice, these have been my favorites for a while now and your Reverb 101 video covering PhoenixVerb taught me 80% of what I know about using reverb today. Hope you’re enjoying letting your brain rest from the tech and getting to make some music!


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## Russell Anderson (Nov 29, 2021)

curry36 said:


> Just saw Nimbus and R4 for 9€ each on plugin botique. I will buy them even without having demoed just because so many ppl talk good about them. Will test them later


Speaking of Michael Carnes’ Reverb 101 video, that video is now extremely relevant to you. If you learn to use Nimbus/R4 you’re pretty much set for a long, long time on reverbs. Combined with the delay/side signal tricks from Michael White, you can spatialize out of your mind.


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## curry36 (Nov 29, 2021)

@Russell Anderson Thank you! Is it this one you are referring to?


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## curry36 (Nov 29, 2021)

easyrider said:


> https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407777831699-iZotope-Compatibility-with-Apple-silicon
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Izotope are no longer supporting them.


What, well that explains all of their mega sales. A bit rude that they don't mention that when selling their stuff. 
What about this Roestta (bridge/emulation?)
Does it mean higher performance cost? Or latency boost?


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## Russell Anderson (Nov 29, 2021)

curry36 said:


> @Russell Anderson Thank you! Is it this one you are referring to?







and these (mostly these, but… that one might be good, too, I forget)


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## Russell Anderson (Nov 29, 2021)

And because Nimbus/R4 give you a separate late reflections predelay (adjacent to the reverb ducking and recovery knobs) in addition to the full plugin predelay, delaying the late reflections additionally can add even more depth besides what Reverb Attack, regular predelay and your ER settings already provide. There is an uncanny valley with algorithmic reverbs of this depth, but if you spend a little while with your eyes shut adjusting the parameters on a reverb like these, you can start putting sounds in extremely believable spaces. When they need it, anyway, as so much of what people on this website are doing involves recorded spaces with instruments in them… but then you can just turn off the ERs


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## Michael Carnes (Dec 6, 2021)

Thanks for the mention, folks. I'm still quite alive--just not in the development sphere. I'll still show up here on occasion. VI libraries to organize and use, etc. And I'm back to playing a physical instrument regularly (jazz and classical guitar) after a minor 40 year interruption  I've used VIs and synths for decades, but something feels really good about making music the old-fashioned way.


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