# Composer Anne-Kathrin Dern discussing Strings Libraries



## muziksculp

Hi,

I found this Youtube video by Composer *Anne-Kathrin Dern* very helpful, and interesting. She is discussing Strings Sample Libraries in Part 4 of her series on Sample Libraries. Hope this is useful.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## el-bo

Enjoying it, so far!


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## Marsen

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I found this Youtube video by Composer *Anne-Kathrin Dern* very helpful, and interesting. She is discussing Strings Sample Libraries in Part 4 of her series on Sample Libraries. Hope this is useful.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp




Yea, her channel is wonderful. A lot of pro knowledge and tips.


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## el-bo

Loving the straight-talking. Great examples, also


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## muziksculp

Marsen said:


> Yea, her channel is wonderful. A lot of pro knowledge and tips.



Yes, very useful info. on her YouTube channel. 

Haha.. I went ahead and purchased CineSamples : *CinePerc*. at 50% off.  after watching one of her videos, she highly recommended them. eventhough, I have other Orchestral Perc. libraries.


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## Marsen

muziksculp said:


> Yes, very useful info. on her YouTube channel.
> 
> Haha.. I went ahead and purchased CineSamples : *CinePerc*. at 50% off.  after watching one of her videos, she highly recommended them. eventhough, I have other Orchestral Perc. libraries.



I think you will be very happy with CinePerc.
It´s such an fountain of profound, rock-solid sounds.


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## Kent

Anne's the best!


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## muziksculp

Marsen said:


> I think you will be very happy with CinePerc.
> It´s such an fountain of profound, rock-solid sounds.



Yes, Plus the current sale was another big factor. 

They sound awesome, and are logically organized, and mapped, not confusing to find what you need. 

Also the variety is amazing ! They will surely become my go-to Perc. , I have others, i.e. Hans Zimmer Perc, OT-Berlin Perc. , and Timpani, and other misc. libraries that have orch. perc., ie. OT Metropolis Arks, ..etc.


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## Marsen

muziksculp said:


> I have others, i.e. Hans Zimmer Perc, OT-Berlin Perc. , and Timpani, and other misc. libraries that have orch. perc., ie. OT Metropolis Arks, ..etc.



How do you quote OT Berlin Percussion?


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## David Kudell

Highly recommend all of Anne-Kathrin's videos, they're a great source of valuable information! She's a talented composer actively working in the business. She also knows the technical side of things, having worked her way up as an assistant to some big composers as well as working at Cinesamples, so she knows samples too.


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## muziksculp

Marsen said:


> How do you quote OT Berlin Percussion?



OT Perc. sound great, but what I dislike about them is the way they mapped them across the keyboard.

Every patch is different, and it gets annoying to use. There is no mapping system to follow/get used to. I would have liked it if they were more consistent with the way they mapped the drum sounds on the keyboard. Hopefully the SINE version will have a better, and more consistent mapping.

CinePerc. has a beefier, more present/upfront sound than OT Perc. in general. sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's not, depending on the character one needs for perc. in a mix.


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## dcoscina

el-bo said:


> Loving the straight-talking. Great examples, also


I love the Q&A Part 2 video where she responds to the request to put out MIDI paks of her style. Her response: "do the work yourself you lazy fuck". HAHAHA! I love it!!


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## el-bo

dcoscina said:


> I love the Q&A Part 2 video where she responds to the request to put out MIDI paks of her style. Her response: "do the work yourself you lazy fuck". HAHAHA! I love it!!



Gotta love the Irish


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## Richard Wilkinson

el-bo said:


> Gotta love the Irish


Absolutely! But Anne-Kathrin is German, isn't she?


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## el-bo

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Absolutely! But Anne-Kathrin is German, isn't she?



Blimey! You're right!

I must've listened to her speak for close to an hour, yesterday, and to me she sounded like an Irish woman who'd been living in the USA for quite a long time. The paler complexion and name (Even the 'missing' e's from Kathrin didn't give me pause) also perhaps contributed to that assumption.

My apologies to Anne-Kathrin.

_Edited_ due to still managing to spell her name incorrectly. I think I'm finally losing it! Thank dog!!


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## Marsen

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Absolutely! But Anne-Kathrin is German, isn't she?



Indeed she is!


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## Jeremy Spencer

Thanks to this thread, I have been watching her videos. Sadly, I didn't know much about Anne until now. Amazing composer! After hearing what she does with CS2, it's now back into my workflow (after collecting dust).....it's like a whole new library. Also considering CSS now as well, as this is one of the first videos where I've heard them sound this "real". I really dig Anne's down-to-earth narrative, wish more YouTube "crib" videos were like this.


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## ProfoundSilence

I agree, I don't have the same use for her videos but I did like what I had seen.


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## Evans

It's a lot of low key commentary on what works for her with an added bit of humility here and there. Good stuff.


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## ProfoundSilence

Oddly I like the videos about the scoring with real orchestra even though it's least relevant to me. Sample libraries discussion is alright, more inspirational that she's less interested in new shineys and just gets to work with what she has


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## [email protected]

I would like to know why she thinks that divisi doesn't work in libraries per se.


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## ProfoundSilence

[email protected] said:


> I would like to know why she thinks that divisi doesn't work in libraries per se.


I own many libraries that function like this and it simply doesn't work like an ensemble in unison, nor sound like an ensemble when playing chords.

Individual players for winds is really useful because of the organ effect it avoids and to a lesser degree brass as well. 

Strings divisi I've managed easier by crossfading solo with ensemble but I don't worry about it unless I'm doing 3+ notes divisi


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## Kent

[email protected] said:


> I would like to know why she thinks that divisi doesn't work in libraries per se.


Why don’t you ask her? She’s on this forum and also responds to comments on YouTube


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## [email protected]

kmaster said:


> Why don’t you ask her? She’s on this forum and also responds to comments on YouTube


I thought about this but then I guessed she has more important things to do. I myself think that if you don't use divisi it would thicken the sound massively and divisi would prevent this from happening and spare you the hassle to adjust the sound of a library with smaller sections to the one used as "tutti". I did this with VSL _Orchestral Strings_ and then used the VSL _Chamber Strings_ as divisi. But still - these are different libraries. So I highly appreciate when these come within a library because it is more consistent.


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## Kent

I mean to ask with respect, of course. Anne is incredibly well-spoken and thoughtful, and if you really want to know, she does like to field such questions, and will give an answer that anybody would find useful, even if they end up disagreeing.


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## A.Dern

Hoo boi, I shall tread carefully into this controversial topic. But first of all, what a lovely thread - thanks everyone for the kind words!

So my opinions about sampling divisi stems from having used some libraries that had that feature and also from discussions we had at the office before we made CineStrings, one of the few Cinesamples libraries I was a part of from start to finish.

1. The cost factor: A lot of the higher end libraries are recorded in very expensive spaces, as in $5k per day kinds of spaces. Plus engineer, plus sampling crew, plus players (a substantial cost factor when sampling strings as opposed to soloists or small groups in the other sections), plus contractor, plus sheet music, plus cartage, plus catering, plus setup... you get the idea. The recording time alone would triple (assuming we're talking triple divisi capabilities), and so would the cost of recording. We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars here. Then comes the production cost. It would now of course also take three times as long for the staff to make the library out of these recordings, so that's 3x the salaries (plus benefits if the job offers that), 3x the office cost, 3x the server space... again, you get the idea. The library as a result would become infinitely more expensive that way - both for the developer but ultimately also for the consumer. Which leads to the next point.

2. Tech capabilities: CineStrings back then already stretched what Kontakt can do (we even had to dumb down some patches because of Kontakt's limitations) and as a result it caused a lot of problems for users. It was incredibly resource heavy even without divisi. Meanwhile the main customer base of most sample library developers are not professionals. Most people buying these products are hobbyists or semi-professionals, meaning the libraries need to be created for those who don't have the latest high end Mac Pro or PC to work off of. Remember, there are only a few thousand full-time professional composers in the world - a lot of whom have custom libraries, get free stuff anyway, or who don't update their rigs frequently (which is incredibly common considering the mammoth task it is to update all the rigs at a larger studio while remaining backwards compatible). The few that are left would not be enough to sustain library developers - they need to cater to larger customer base. For what it's worth, I have also not seen a lot of divisi sample usage at any of the studios I've worked at, even if the libraries they were using had that capability.

3. Consistency: Sampling strings is hard - harder than other sections. Why? Because you tend to write for strings as a group but they need to be sampled separately. The other sections don't have that kind of problem. Keeping just the five sections consistent over several days is an incredibly difficult tasks. We had world class studio players on CineStrings and we were struggling even just keeping violins 1 and 2 consistent with each other - even though those were mostly the same players just switching seats the next day. Staying consistent in the velocities, the legatos, the shorts... it's crazy difficult. Now imagine trying to do that with divisi. It has great potential to become quite the mess and it would never quite sound like a section in the end because those players can't really tune and blend their sound to one another the way they would if it were true divisi. It can become quite the disjointed and thin sound sampling small divisi sections on different days and pretending they are all playing together in the end. Just trying to balance all the discrepancies out in post to make them seem like one section is a herculean task. Also then what do you do if you want a full non-divisi patch. Someone now has to create that from the individual recordings and render that together, balancing out volumes, timings, mic positions... the loops in the sustains and the legatos would no longer correspond so that would need major fixing... tuning... and all that for hundreds of thousands of samples. And for what payoff? There's a high risk that it won't work and then the developer flushed several hundred thousand dollars down the toilet.

4. Does doubling full sections really double the size? The answer is no. I (and many other composers) layer different libraries on top of each other by default. So technically in some mockups you're hearing 24 horns and 150 strings. But does it really sound like that? No, not really. It just sounds like a large string section and a large horn section. In order to avoid doubling the same patch twice (even though you could), I simply put my divisi into another library. So I might program the top line into say Cinematic Strings 2 and the bottom line into Cinematic Studio Strings - or whatever your go-to libraries are. That way the sound stays much more consistent and section-like, is easier to blend, and honestly you won't hear the doubled string section size. This would only be an issue if you're going for a chamber type sound but then you can simply use smaller sized ensemble libraries. Two chamber sized libraries blended together don't create the sound of a 60 piece string section. They will still have the sound of chamber strings.

Gosh, now I wrote a damn essay on this... Anyway, feel free to disagree (in a civil way please). But those were the discussions we had and again, I've not seen any composer at any of the studios I've worked at use any divisi patches. I think a lot of people are stressing out about stuff that makes sense on paper (like not layering sections or quantizing or blending libraries for example) but that in practicality don't carry all that much weight in the professional world. At the end, all that matters is "Does it sound good and does the client approve it?"


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## Robo Rivard

Thanks for the insights Anne-Kathrin! I bought the "Dulcimer & Zither" library based on your great demos.


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## ProfoundSilence

A.Dern said:


> Hoo boi, I shall tread carefully into this controversial topic. But first of all, what a lovely thread - thanks everyone for the kind words!
> 
> So my opinions about sampling divisi stems from having used some libraries that had that feature and also from discussions we had at the office before we made CineStrings, one of the few Cinesamples libraries I was a part of from start to finish.
> 
> 1. The cost factor: A lot of the higher end libraries are recorded in very expensive spaces, as in $5k per day kinds of spaces. Plus engineer, plus sampling crew, plus players (a substantial cost factor when sampling strings as opposed to soloists or small groups in the other sections), plus contractor, plus sheet music, plus cartage, plus catering, plus setup... you get the idea. The recording time alone would triple (assuming we're talking triple divisi capabilities), and so would the cost of recording. We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars here. Then comes the production cost. It would now of course also take three times as long for the staff to make the library out of these recordings, so that's 3x the salaries (plus benefits if the job offers that), 3x the office cost, 3x the server space... again, you get the idea. The library as a result would become infinitely more expensive that way - both for the developer but ultimately also for the consumer. Which leads to the next point.
> 
> 2. Tech capabilities: CineStrings back then already stretched what Kontakt can do (we even had to dumb down some patches because of Kontakt's limitations) and as a result it caused a lot of problems for users. It was incredibly resource heavy even without divisi. Meanwhile the main customer base of most sample library developers are not professionals. Most people buying these products are hobbyists or semi-professionals, meaning the libraries need to be created for those who don't have the latest high end Mac Pro or PC to work off of. Remember, there are only a few thousand full-time professional composers in the world - a lot of whom have custom libraries, get free stuff anyway, or who don't update their rigs frequently (which is incredibly common considering the mammoth task it is to update all the rigs at a larger studio while remaining backwards compatible). The few that are left would not be enough to sustain library developers - they need to cater to larger customer base. For what it's worth, I have also not seen a lot of divisi sample usage at any of the studios I've worked at, even if the libraries they were using had that capability.
> 
> 3. Consistency: Sampling strings is hard - harder than other sections. Why? Because you tend to write for strings as a group but they need to be sampled separately. The other sections don't have that kind of problem. Keeping just the five sections consistent over several days is an incredibly difficult tasks. We had world class studio players on CineStrings and we were struggling even just keeping violins 1 and 2 consistent with each other - even though those were mostly the same players just switching seats the next day. Staying consistent in the velocities, the legatos, the shorts... it's crazy difficult. Now imagine trying to do that with divisi. It has great potential to become quite the mess and it would never quite sound like a section in the end because those players can't really tune and blend their sound to one another the way they would if it were true divisi. It can become quite the disjointed and thin sound sampling small divisi sections on different days and pretending they are all playing together in the end. Just trying to balance all the discrepancies out in post to make them seem like one section is a herculean task. Also then what do you do if you want a full non-divisi patch. Someone now has to create that from the individual recordings and render that together, balancing out volumes, timings, mic positions... the loops in the sustains and the legatos would no longer correspond so that would need major fixing... tuning... and all that for hundreds of thousands of samples. And for what payoff? There's a high risk that it won't work and then the developer flushed several hundred thousand dollars down the toilet.
> 
> 4. Does doubling full sections really double the size? The answer is no. I (and many other composers) layer different libraries on top of each other by default. So technically in some mockups you're hearing 24 horns and 150 strings. But does it really sound like that? No, not really. It just sounds like a large string section and a large horn section. In order to avoid doubling the same patch twice (even though you could), I simply put my divisi into another library. So I might program the top line into say Cinematic Strings 2 and the bottom line into Cinematic Studio Strings - or whatever your go-to libraries are. That way the sound stays much more consistent and section-like, is easier to blend, and honestly you won't hear the doubled string section size. This would only be an issue if you're going for a chamber type sound but then you can simply use smaller sized ensemble libraries. Two chamber sized libraries blended together don't create the sound of a 60 piece string section. They will still have the sound of chamber strings.
> 
> Gosh, now I wrote a damn essay on this... Anyway, feel free to disagree (in a civil way please). But those were the discussions we had and again, I've not seen any composer at any of the studios I've worked at use any divisi patches. I think a lot of people are stressing out about stuff that makes sense on paper (like not layering sections or quantizing or blending libraries for example) but that in practicality don't carry all that much weight in the professional world. At the end, all that matters is "Does it sound good and does the client approve it?"


Out of curiosity do you have any specific excerpts you've mocked up AND recorded that use divisi to compare?


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## ryans

A.Dern said:


> it would never quite sound like a section in the end because those players can't really tune and blend their sound to one another the way they would if it were true divisiI


I feel like this is the main issue with divisi samples, the lack of natural blend. Playing a 3 voice chord with a 4 violins patch doesn't sound like a 12 violin section. Just like a 3 voice chord with the 12 violin patch doesn't sound like 36 violins.

Completely agree with every point in your essay.


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## A.Dern

ProfoundSilence said:


> Out of curiosity do you have any specific excerpts you've mocked up AND recorded that use divisi to compare?


Yes, I have weeks worth of recordings from AIR, Abbey Road, Fox, SONY, Galaxy, and FAMES, all in the archives from past movies along with the mockups. Of course, I can't share them publicly because they are owned by the studios that paid for those recordings. Plus an A/B comparison doesn't work anyway since - compared to the libraries I was using - the string section sizes varied, they were recorded in different spaces by different engineers, different equipment, players... it would sound too different to even pass as a comparison. Overall, I believe you're thinking about this the wrong way to begin with. Almost any modern score - especially out of Hollywood - will have the live recordings and mockup mixed together in the final delivery. You almost never "just" hear the live recordings, even if it's a purely orchestral score and even if there was a full sized orchestra available. It's part of the Hollywood sound (among other things) to artificially create this larger than life orchestra. It's also one of the reasons we like to do striping - to be able to even further "produce" the orchestra. The moment you mix 40 or 60 live strings with mockup strings - be it a blend of different libraries or not - section sizes become irrelevant. It's just not a thing anymore in that moment because it's not real anyway. This only really matters if one is going for a chamber sized string sound or a quartet or anything similarly special.


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## toddkreuz

I remember watching one of her videos where she answers questions from subscribers,
and somebody asked "How do you deal with blending libraries that were recorded in
different rooms?" And she said " Well, I dont. Its not really a problem. Its an imaginary problem." Hahahahahah
Made me laugh so hard, cuz i'm thinking of the thousands of posts here from people fighting
to make everything sound like its in the same room, and how i've always thought they were
nutz because i never thought it was an issue. Good to hear confirmation from a real working composer.


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## Jeremy Spencer

It’s actually quite refreshing to watch Anne’s videos....especially about the different libraries she uses. Just goes to show that we don’t necessarily need the latest and greatest, and most of already us have the tools we need; yet we overthink and over analyze things. It’s nice to be grounded every now and then!


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## ProfoundSilence

toddkreuz said:


> I remember watching one of her videos where she answers questions from subscribers,
> and somebody asked "How do you deal with blending libraries that were recorded in
> different rooms?" And she said " Well, I dont. Its not really a problem. Its an imaginary problem." Hahahahahah
> Made me laugh so hard, cuz i'm thinking of the thousands of posts here from people fighting
> to make everything sound like its in the same room, and how i've always thought they were
> nutz because i never thought it was an issue. Good to hear confirmation from a real working composer.



Well within limits. 

Things like OT, Cinesamples, Cinematic studio ect are all recorded in scoring stages. Teldex and track down for instance have similiar volumes even...

The only real outlier is spitfire because it's like a church and sounds like one... But even then most of the problem starts when you use two extremes like studio vs concert hall.


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## ProfoundSilence

Jeremy Spencer said:


> It’s actually quite refreshing to watch Anne’s videos....especially about the different libraries she uses. Just goes to show that we don’t necessarily need the latest and greatest, and most of already us have the tools we need; yet we overthink and over analyze things. It’s nice to be grounded every now and then!


Yeah this is the vibe I got. 

Coincidentally I was just curious because it slipped into my feed after she responded to the "GS" thread and I recognized the profile picture so I figured I'd just check out her content. 

But the music first vibes are strong, and for someone who worked for Cinesamples ironically doesn't seem to care all that much about libraries, just getting enough to do what you need.


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## Jeremy Spencer

ProfoundSilence said:


> But the music first vibes are strong, and for someone who worked for Cinesamples ironically doesn't seem to care all that much about libraries, just getting enough to do what you need.


Exactly! I'm actually now considering picking up CSS and using it alongside my already owned CS2, BBCSO Pro and HS Diamond. Forget about Opus altogether.


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## BassClef

Dern is fabulous. I’m just a old retired guy composing for fun. I find it absolutely incredible that professionals like her spend time helping others and sharing their craft. With all the VI and hardware talk on this forum, it’s also great to see a very talented pro making beautiful music with relatively modest tools. She unknowingly helped me save thousands on high end monitors and room treatments for my little 12foot square office... no longer feeling guilty using headphones. (funny to discover that we both use the same 2 models) If I can’t make good music, the fault lies in my creativity, skill set and work ethic, not the price of my tool box!


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## Niah2

Yes the video about the headphones monitors vs studio monitors was extremely helpful !


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## Pier

So... Does CSS ever go on sale? 😂


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## A.Dern

I'm glad those messages are coming across. Music is queen, tools are secondary - at least to me.

A lot of YouTube composers or other loud voices in the spotlight create this false idea that all professionals jump on new libraries and plugins the day they are released. That's absolutely not the case. These guys are pretty much full-time reviewers with a Patreon account attached, and paid courses, and MIDI packs, and whatnot - this is one of their main income streams, they're trying to sell you stuff and get more views. However, if you're a full-time composer for film, TV, and games, and that's your main income, it would be a terrible business investment to just blindly buy everything when you already have several terrabytes of stuff that works. You'd also normally wait until you really need something, and then bill the production for it instead of investing your business savings into it. And if you already have 5 string libraries and couldn't make them work, chances are that new shiny thing isn't going to solve your problems either.
Aside from that, most professional composers will wait for the first update of anything (not just libraries) to come out before even making the jump. That way the rest of the user base can find all the bugs and mistakes first, and the developer has time to fix that in an update. Full-time composers can't deal with that on tight deadlines, it's too disruptive. On top of that, most professional studios have multiple rigs that need to sync and be identical at all times so installing a new tool is not something you can quickly do, especially not in the middle of a project (which is always at busy studios). A lot of studios will only do a proper overhaul once a year, usually over Christmas or during a summer break. You'd be surprised by the tools some people still work with - some of which were released 10 years ago. If something works, it simply works, no need to change it. A newer tool is not automatically a better tool. The sample graveyards on all of our hard drives prove that quite well.

As far as blending goes, that was kind of a tongue-in-cheek comment since it's so passionately discussed. Yet few professional composers have this on their minds all that much. You can get 90% to the finish line by doing proper volume balancing. The rest can come from turning off the patch reverb and sending everything to the same reverb in the DAW, using a global EQ to filter out any frequency buildups, and then tape saturation and some parallel compression to glue it together. That can all be set up in a template so once that's done, it's not ever an issue anymore until a new library is added (which as discussed doesn't happen every week). The outliers are Spitfire and VSL, maybe also EastWest, because they are either very wet or very dry. AIR is generally hard to blend. It doesn't play well with others, even when I record there live and then try to blend it with the mockup. One way I've managed to fix this is by shortening the releases to be similar to a "studio" release and less "church-y". That way it blends better with the studio recordings. But as you may have gathered from my videos, I prefer other libraries that were recorded at studios anyway. VSL isn't used all that much but you can do some reverb/delay/panning/EQ magic on that one to combat the dryness. But this is the reason why it's not used quite as much - it requires a lot of setup as opposed to other libraries. This is referring to the old dry VSL, I believe they also now have newer stuff recorded at Synchron which is obviously a pristine sounding studio.

All of these opinions really stem from multiple factors - having worked at a variety of studios, having worked in sampling for a while, having my own studio now and being a full-time composer... but above all, I've been incredibly poor here in LA. I've worked on blockbuster productions and network TV shows while barely getting by. I didn't have any shiny tools and was lacking very basic stuff, and certainly couldn't afford the latest of the latest - but I still worked on these productions and still delivered the desired quality. Just know your tools and you'll be fine. You can be a professional without all this nonsense, it's okay, don't sweat it. It'll come with the next bigger paycheck and until then you work with what you got.


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## pawelmorytko

A.Dern said:


> At the end, all that matters is "Does it sound good and does the client approve it?"


I stand by this wholeheartedly when working with samples. I don't bother with divisi gimmicks, I don't worry about mixing and blending libraries/halls, and I definitely don't worry about layering libraries, because I've found that my favourite results with sampling are when I layer certain libraries which have their own weaknesses and strengths, but together they are able to hide some of those weaknesses and have their strengths really shine through.

For example my favourite 'lush' string patch consists of about 4 different string libraries layered together - making it probably about 200 string players. But does it sound like 200 players? Of course not, it sounds like a rich and full sounding 60 player string section.

Sampling just does not work the same as a real orchestra, and you need to trust your ears and just go with what sounds good.


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## ProfoundSilence

I agree. air just sounds like a church and it feels like spitfire libraries have a lot of saturation from the preamps too. 

To the point that adding some waves nls Neve and a 4 second church IR can fool plenty of people. 

I did one eyeballed in minutes to show how effortless it is to make for instance berlin harp sound indistinguishable from the spitfire one. 

Real talk though I'm in one of those phases where I kinda wanna learn a notation program again. Do you have a specific workflow to notate at reasonable speed?

I'm kinda 50/50 between that and just setting up reaper notation in a way that's fast since I'd probably just so piano sketches in notation software anyways.


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## [email protected]

@A.Dern Vielen tausend Dank für Deine Ausführungen über Divisi in Streicher-Klangbibliotheken!

I really appreciate that you took the time and jumped into the discussion and everything you wrote makes absolutely sense - especially that the main costumer base aren't professional composers but those who want to feel like one (last assupmtion is added by me).

It's very valuable to get an insight from professionals in this area and it puts a lot of things into perspective. I don't have anything to add so I will just stop here before blowing up my post. One should only write much if you have to say enough - and Anne-Kathrin definitely has!


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## Jeremy Spencer

@A.Dern I really appreciate your humble, honest posts (especially your last one). Inspiring, to say the least. Many of us (myself included) get caught up in the hype, and forget that the creative aspect is the most important.....and we have more than we actually need (we are spoiled for choice). I think I created more music back when all I had was an Ensoniq ASR and a Roland JV-2080! And now, I have many VI's I could only have fantasized about 20 years ago....only to want more. Hence, it's really cool to have a "wake up call" every now and then....which you have done.


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## A.Dern

[email protected] said:


> @A.Dern Vielen tausend Dank für Deine Ausführungen über Divisi in Streicher-Klangbibliotheken!
> 
> I really appreciate that you took the time and jumped into the discussion and everything you wrote makes absolutely sense - especially that the main costumer base aren't professional composers but those who want to feel like one (last assupmtion is added by me).
> 
> It's very valuable to get an insight from professionals in this area and it puts a lot of things into perspective. I don't have anything to add so I will just stop here before blowing up my post. One should only write much if you have to say enough - and Anne-Kathrin definitely has!


Streicherklangbibliotheken. As far as German compound words go, that's pretty neat!


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## robgb

A.Dern said:


> I'm glad those messages are coming across. Music is queen, tools are secondary - at least to me.
> 
> A lot of YouTube composers or other loud voices in the spotlight create this false idea that all professionals jump on new libraries and plugins the day they are released. That's absolutely not the case. These guys are pretty much full-time reviewers with a Patreon account attached, and paid courses, and MIDI packs, and whatnot - this is one of their main income streams, they're trying to sell you stuff and get more views. However, if you're a full-time composer for film, TV, and games, and that's your main income, it would be a terrible business investment to just blindly buy everything when you already have several terrabytes of stuff that works. You'd also normally wait until you really need something, and then bill the production for it instead of investing your business savings into it. And if you already have 5 string libraries and couldn't make them work, chances are that new shiny thing isn't going to solve your problems either.
> Aside from that, most professional composers will wait for the first update of anything (not just libraries) to come out before even making the jump. That way the rest of the user base can find all the bugs and mistakes first, and the developer has time to fix that in an update. Full-time composers can't deal with that on tight deadlines, it's too disruptive. On top of that, most professional studios have multiple rigs that need to sync and be identical at all times so installing a new tool is not something you can quickly do, especially not in the middle of a project (which is always at busy studios). A lot of studios will only do a proper overhaul once a year, usually over Christmas or during a summer break. You'd be surprised by the tools some people still work with - some of which were released 10 years ago. If something works, it simply works, no need to change it. A newer tool is not automatically a better tool. The sample graveyards on all of our hard drives prove that quite well.
> 
> As far as blending goes, that was kind of a tongue-in-cheek comment since it's so passionately discussed. Yet few professional composers have this on their minds all that much. You can get 90% to the finish line by doing proper volume balancing. The rest can come from turning off the patch reverb and sending everything to the same reverb in the DAW, using a global EQ to filter out any frequency buildups, and then tape saturation and some parallel compression to glue it together. That can all be set up in a template so once that's done, it's not ever an issue anymore until a new library is added (which as discussed doesn't happen every week). The outliers are Spitfire and VSL, maybe also EastWest, because they are either very wet or very dry. AIR is generally hard to blend. It doesn't play well with others, even when I record there live and then try to blend it with the mockup. One way I've managed to fix this is by shortening the releases to be similar to a "studio" release and less "church-y". That way it blends better with the studio recordings. But as you may have gathered from my videos, I prefer other libraries that were recorded at studios anyway. VSL isn't used all that much but you can do some reverb/delay/panning/EQ magic on that one to combat the dryness. But this is the reason why it's not used quite as much - it requires a lot of setup as opposed to other libraries. This is referring to the old dry VSL, I believe they also now have newer stuff recorded at Synchron which is obviously a pristine sounding studio.
> 
> All of these opinions really stem from multiple factors - having worked at a variety of studios, having worked in sampling for a while, having my own studio now and being a full-time composer... but above all, I've been incredibly poor here in LA. I've worked on blockbuster productions and network TV shows while barely getting by. I didn't have any shiny tools and was lacking very basic stuff, and certainly couldn't afford the latest of the latest - but I still worked on these productions and still delivered the desired quality. Just know your tools and you'll be fine. You can be a professional without all this nonsense, it's okay, don't sweat it. It'll come with the next bigger paycheck and until then you work with what you got.


Your thoughts on these matters are a breath of fresh air. Despite your lack of enthusiasm for "mainstream" Spitfire, I think you might consider taking a look at Spitfire's Studio Strings, as they were recorded in a smaller AIR studio and have more of the studio sound. I've found them quite good for blending with other libraries, and they have a number of articulations that other libraries don't.


----------



## A.Dern

robgb said:


> Your thoughts on these matters are a breath of fresh air. Despite your lack of enthusiasm for "mainstream" Spitfire, I think you might consider taking a look at Spitfire's Studio Strings, as they were recorded in a smaller AIR studio and have more of the studio sound. I've found them quite good for blending with other libraries, and they have a number of articulations that other libraries don't.


I've heard good things about it but my point remains: Why buy it? What does it bring to the table that the other 10 string libraries I already own don't have? Is there anything I'm desperately missing in my current setup that this library would solve? And is that worth $500? Or are those better spent elsewhere in my day to day business fixing other more pressing issues? Those are important questions to ask before buying anything, unless doing reviews is one of your main income streams which would justify the purchase. I feel the same way about other libraries that I'm sure are great. Cinematic Studio Woodwinds comes to mind. I love the brand and I'm sure the library is great but I'm not wanting for anything in my current setup so the purchase doesn't make any sense for my company. I already own Berlin Woodwinds and CineWinds, along with Hollywoodwinds and some other stuff I already don't use because the first three cover all the ground I need on a regular basis. So why needlessly add something I don't need and that doesn't bring anything new to the table for me? If I were at the beginning of my career just starting to buy my first libraries, this would be a different story.


----------



## [email protected]

@robgb is still in VI-Control-Mode - love it!



A.Dern said:


> Streicherklangbibliotheken. As far as German compound words go, that's pretty neat!


So how about Streich_instrument_klangbibliotheken?

I have to agree with everyone else that it's very encouraging/uplifting to watch your videos. Here in VI-Control there are so many battles about blending, mixing, DAWs etc. and it is so refreshing watching a video by a pro composer commenting these things with:

"Do whatever works for you.", "It doesn't matter which DAW you are using.", "I don't have time to try out every new library."


----------



## robgb

A.Dern said:


> I've heard good things about it but my point remains: Why buy it? What does it bring to the table that the other 10 string libraries I already own don't have? Is there anything I'm desperately missing in my current setup that this library would solve? And is that worth $500? Or are those better spent elsewhere in my day to day business fixing other more pressing issues? Those are important questions to ask before buying anything, unless doing reviews is one of your main income streams which would justify the purchase. I feel the same way about other libraries that I'm sure are great. Cinematic Studio Woodwinds comes to mind. I love the brand and I'm sure the library is great but I'm not wanting for anything in my current setup so the purchase doesn't make any sense for my company. I already own Berlin Woodwinds and CineWinds, along with Hollywoodwinds and some other stuff I already don't use because the first three cover all the ground I need on a regular basis. So why needlessly add something I don't need and that doesn't bring anything new to the table for me? If I were at the beginning of my career just starting to buy my first libraries, this would be a different story.


Point taken, but I think there's a nice rawness to it that makes it special. I, too, am at the saturation point when it comes to strings and have shied away from buying anything more—but I thought I'd mention Studio Strings because of their extended articulations. It's hard to find Super Sul Tasto in other libraries. Maybe you have it in Tundra, I don't know, as I don't own that library.

But hey, I'm using Sonivox woodwinds, so who am I to talk. I think they sound great, and after customizing them in my DAW to make them much more playable, I see no reason to look for other woodwind libraries. They get the job done.


----------



## jononotbono

A.Dern said:


> What does it bring to the table that the other 10 string libraries I already own don't have? Is there anything I'm desperately missing in my current setup that this library would solve?


Exactly why I haven’t bought anything for quite a long time. Just got to a point of “really? More of the same”. And admittedly I’ve been a fiend in regards to buying sample libraries in the past few years 😂 

Thanks for your input Anne. So, have you got a release date for you debut MIDI Pack release then? 😂


----------



## [email protected]

It's the same with me!

Years ago I dived in the VI-world by buying the VSL Super Package and this kept me busy for a long time. Then, in winter 2019 I became interested in virtual instruments again and then GAS was powerfull. I acquired a lot of stuff - and I was very happy while doing it and I am still very content about my collection. I love being able to pull up different sounds, comparing, fine-tuning etc. But now I reached the point where I think I am settled for a long time. I am very excited about _Modern Scoring Strings_ and I think about completing my _Berlin Series_ collection but then I will have everything covered with at least 3 different libraries.

Especially the latest releases of _Berlin Symphonic Strings_ and _Cinematic Studio Woodwinds_ showed that _new_ isn't always _better_.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

@A.Dern mind if I ask a question? In one of your videos, you talk about your computers and how you decided to migrate from Mac to PC. My Mac is getting to the point where an upgrade to a new machine is on the horizon. Were you reluctant to make the switch? Which platform do you actually prefer if money were no object? I’m on the fence, as I know I can have a very powerful PC built much cheaper than a new Mac with lesser specs. My newly built slave PC is incredibly powerful, which now has be considering the switch (I’m already well versed with Cubase as well). Thank you!


----------



## MA-Simon

Awesome channel. Wish I had that sooner. So much information!


----------



## szczaw

There's a tendency to think that a new library is going to make my music better. The sound may improve, but the music will mostly likely not.


----------



## Pier

Hey @A.Dern in a video (not sure which) you mentioned you also use virtual synths.

Do you have a video where you talk about this?

What are your favorite synths?


----------



## A.Dern

Jeremy Spencer said:


> @A.Dern mind if I ask a question? In one of your videos, you talk about your computers and how you decided to migrate from Mac to PC. My Mac is getting to the point where an upgrade to a new machine is on the horizon. Were you reluctant to make the switch? Which platform do you actually prefer if money were no object? I’m on the fence, as I know I can have a very powerful PC built much cheaper than a new Mac with lesser specs. My newly built slave PC is incredibly powerful, which now has be considering the switch (I’m already well versed with Cubase as well). Thank you!


I wasn't really reluctant to switch. I grew up on PCs and then back in 2007 when I started studying, I switched fully to Mac (I believe the OS was Tiger at the time). Windows was kinda stuck in the Dark Ages at the time (anyone remember Vista?). The Mac OS was just lightyears ahead, faster, more userfriendly, the computers were more durable, needed less RAM to run complicated stuff... a lot of pros for machines that were only a little more expensive.

However, when I started to work for Cinesamples, they got me PC for sample streaming while my main machine was an iMac. So I kinda got back in touch with PCs in 2013 and I was quite impressed by the leap forward they had made. I've had at least one PC for sample streaming ever since so I already knew what those machines could do and what Windows 10 feels like - kind of like the situation you're describing. So the switch was actually fairly easy and honestly, now I prefer Windows and PCs. The pricing is much more reasonable, the customization and upgradability, the OS has caught up very well, it's secure now, no more headaches with constant OS upgrades, thanks to SSDs they are as fast as Macs now, they are just as durable, you have more affordable high end app options in the Microsoft store... hell, they even look better now than Apple's machines.

To me, Apple has lost its advantage with desktop computers. Everything I admired about them in 2007, PCs can now do as well. Some things they even do better. I still think Apple has the edge when it comes to devices with limited physical space in them, like laptops and iPhones - their RAM efficiency and protocols really comes into play there. But with desktop machines, you can stack up on SSDs, RAM, CPU and anything else without any space concerns so they kind of lose their edge there. The new Mac Pro doesn't have any capabilities that would justify an $11k purchase to me when I can have an equally great PC for $3-5k.


----------



## A.Dern

Pier said:


> Hey @A.Dern in a video (not sure which) you mentioned you also use virtual synths.
> 
> Do you have a video where you talk about this?
> 
> What are your favorite synths?


I don't have a video about synths - it's honestly not my area of expertise. My go-to is Zebra by u-he though I wouldn't claim to know how to use it 100%. I'm still learning on that front. What helped me a lot are these videos (if you're a beginner that is):



If you're using Serum, this video has been recommended to me as well (still working my way through it):


----------



## Pier

A.Dern said:


> I don't have a video about synths - it's honestly not my area of expertise. My go-to is Zebra by u-he though I wouldn't claim to know how to use it 100%. I'm still learning on that front. What helped me a lot are these videos (if you're a beginner that is):



Zebra is amazing.

Been using it for 10 years but thanks for the video anyway!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

A.Dern said:


> I wasn't really reluctant to switch. I grew up on PCs and then back in 2007 when I started studying, I switched fully to Mac (I believe the OS was Tiger at the time). Windows was kinda stuck in the Dark Ages at the time (anyone remember Vista?). The Mac OS was just lightyears ahead, faster, more userfriendly, the computers were more durable, needed less RAM to run complicated stuff... a lot of pros for machines that were only a little more expensive.
> 
> However, when I started to work for Cinesamples, they got me PC for sample streaming while my main machine was an iMac. So I kinda got back in touch with PCs in 2013 and I was quite impressed by the leap forward they had made. I've had at least one PC for sample streaming ever since so I already knew what those machines could do and what Windows 10 feels like - kind of like the situation you're describing. So the switch was actually fairly easy and honestly, now I prefer Windows and PCs. The pricing is much more reasonable, the customization and upgradability, the OS has caught up very well, it's secure now, no more headaches with constant OS upgrades, thanks to SSDs they are as fast as Macs now, they are just as durable, you have more affordable high end app options in the Microsoft store... hell, they even look better now than Apple's machines.
> 
> To me, Apple has lost its advantage with desktop computers. Everything I admired about them in 2007, PCs can now do as well. Some things they even do better. I still think Apple has the edge when it comes to devices with limited physical space in them, like laptops and iPhones - their RAM efficiency and protocols really comes into play there. But with desktop machines, you can stack up on SSDs, RAM, CPU and anything else without any space concerns so they kind of lose their edge there. The new Mac Pro doesn't have any capabilities that would justify an $11k purchase to me when I can have an equally great PC for $3-5k.


Thanks a lot for that detailed response! Much appreciated. And yes, I painfully remember Vista.


----------



## Kony

Just wanted to also say thank you to @A.Dern for the YouTube videos - even though they cover some of the ground I'm familiar with, there are also some very useful additional tips - so I've enjoyed watching these, although you look cold in the latest videos, as if the heating has broken in your studio?


----------



## b_elliott

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I found this Youtube video by Composer *Anne-Kathrin Dern* very helpful, and interesting. She is discussing Strings Sample Libraries in Part 4 of her series on Sample Libraries. Hope this is useful.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Thanks. What a rich resource. I started checking out A-K's videos and am currently digesting her Composer Q&A 3-part series. 

Already I find I am less backed off about using strings as I bought into the BS that I don't know (never will) the nuanced language and tech of using them. Less baggage already.

re: Anne-Kathrin Dern -- Almost another lifetime ago, when I was in LA I met such professionals: young, super-talented, confident, composed and just a blast to work with. Her series is making me homesick. 

I do hope she and others fare well during Covid.


----------



## A.Dern

Kony said:


> Just wanted to also say thank you to @A.Dern for the YouTube videos - even though they cover some of the ground I'm familiar with, there are also some very useful additional tips - so I've enjoyed watching these, although you look cold in the latest videos, as if the heating has broken in your studio?


Ha, I can't run my heater while I record videos because it's too loud. But it does get quite cold here in LA at night since it's a desert and I'm also close to the Pacific Ocean.


----------



## Ashermusic

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I found this Youtube video by Composer *Anne-Kathrin Dern* very helpful, and interesting. She is discussing Strings Sample Libraries in Part 4 of her series on Sample Libraries. Hope this is useful.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



I know she is accomplished, but a little _more_ humility would serve her well. "Just dump the other libraries you have been using" is not something it would ever even occur to me to say, even if I were far more successful than she is.


----------



## Pier

Ashermusic said:


> I know she is accomplished, but a little _more_ humility would serve her well. "Just dump the other libraries you have been using" is not something it would ever even occur to me to say, even if I were far more successful than she is.


Does she actually say that?

I didn't watch the whole video but the sense I got is more like "these are the libraries that work for me".


----------



## Ashermusic

Pier said:


> Does she actually say that?
> 
> I didn't watch the whole video but the sense I got is more like "these are the libraries that work for me".


She actually says that after taking about Cinematic Strings 2 and Cinematic Studio Strings.


----------



## Pier

Ashermusic said:


> She actually says that after taking about Cinematic Strings 2 and Cinematic Studio Strings.


Do you have a timestamp?

Edit:

Found it around 14:00



Honestly I found it's more like a tongue-in-cheek kind of comment that no one should take at face value.


----------



## Polkasound

Timestamp 14:00. The comment didn't bother me personally, because I took it as her own tongue-in-cheek way of praising the two libraries she uses, not as a way of slamming all others.


----------



## A.Dern

How dare I make a tongue-in-cheek joke in my videos. Please cancel me for I lack humility. Seriously, I don't know why this needs to be said but obviously don't throw away your $5k worth of string libraries because I said so in a joke.


----------



## jim2b

Thanks so much for making these videos. I find them loaded with useful information, and a wonderfully refreshing point of view.
I love the anecdote about how R2D2 got his name.

Thanks again,

Jim


----------



## Bear Market

Ashermusic said:


> I know she is accomplished, but a little _more_ humility would serve her well. "Just dump the other libraries you have been using" is not something it would ever even occur to me to say, even if I were far more successful than she is.


Maybe a little _less _trigger happiness and preachy-ness would serve some people well, regardless of level of accomplishment or success?


----------



## mybadmemory

Thanks for your great videos, clear insights, and down to earth no-bullshit reality checks @A.Dern! Please ignore the grumpiness coming from certain directions, the rest of us can totally see and appreciate your humor!


----------



## Kevperry777

Hyperbole is a beautiful thing.

Love the videos...thanks!


----------



## Waywyn

Oh, come on! Somebody invests hours to create not just one helpful video in their spare time to help others and then gets "burned" for something like this?

I am dumping my shit regularly off hard drives, because why should I waste space for libs I don't use anymore? Even IF I would still need them again, it is not that they disappeared in a black hole. Nowadays you can download a 60 GB lib in 15 mins.

Eat this humility: I recently sold a Prophet 12 and a Matrixbrute because it was collecting dust! Ou Am Gee.


----------



## davidson

A.Dern said:


> How dare I make a tongue-in-cheek joke in my videos. Please cancel me for I lack humility. Seriously, I don't know why this needs to be said but obviously don't throw away your $5k worth of string libraries because I said so in a joke.


Well I've already dumped them because you quite clearly told me to, THANKS FOR NOTHING! 

I also watched a youtube video recently where someone said 'shit the bed'. I'm starting to have trust issues with everything I watch on the internet.


----------



## visiblenoise

I too am offended on behalf of my underused libraries


----------



## sourcefor

I applaud her for making videos of that length even when she is very busy and her info is great kudos! And she is very accomplished as well!


----------



## Ashermusic

A.Dern said:


> How dare I make a tongue-in-cheek joke in my videos. Please cancel me for I lack humility. Seriously, I don't know why this needs to be said but obviously don't throw away your $5k worth of string libraries because I said so in a joke.


Maybe I am dense, or it is a cultural difference but it wasn't obvious to me you were joking.


----------



## Arbee

Late to this party, but thanks Anne for sharing your story and advice (and a lot of common sense!). Really enjoyed your _Fearless_ video btw, go girl !


----------



## Kony

A.Dern said:


> How dare I make a tongue-in-cheek joke in my videos. Please cancel me for I lack humility. Seriously, I don't know why this needs to be said but obviously don't throw away your $5k worth of string libraries because I said so in a joke.


It's too late - I've deleted all of my string libraries now because I took you seriously (and I can't think for myself). If only you had shown some humility!


----------



## Mike Greene

Ashermusic said:


> Maybe I am dense, or it is a cultural difference but it wasn't obvious to me you were joking.


I think it was obvious to just about everyone.

Whether it's obvious is irrelevant, though, because the bigger question is (as I've asked too many times before), do you really, really, reeeeeally have to say every judgmental thing that comes into your head? I mean ... other than to annoy _*literally everyone else in the thread*_, what's the purpose? Can you show me any _value_ in that post? Or do you just enjoy taking jabs?

Maybe just let people enjoy themselves without your judgements of whether *they* need to improve themselves, whether it be "humility" or whatever else you've anointed yourself to be the judge of. Doctor heel thyself, as it were.


----------



## Ashermusic

Mike Greene said:


> I think it was obvious to just about everyone.
> 
> Whether it's obvious is irrelevant, though, because the bigger question is (as I've asked too many times before), do you really, really, reeeeeally have to say every judgmental thing that comes into your head? I mean ... other than to annoy _*literally everyone else in the thread*_, what's the purpose? Can you show me any _value_ in that post? Or do you just enjoy taking jabs?
> 
> Maybe just let people enjoy themselves without your judgements of whether *they* need to improve themselves, whether it be "humility" or whatever else you've anointed yourself to be the judge of. Doctor heel thyself, as it were.


Pot, meet kettle. And it would be nice if once in a while you held others to the standards you hold me to. Others do it _far_ more than me without a word from you.


----------



## zolhof

Feel free to dump all your unwanted libraries into my hard disk, I will give them a new home where they can learn to trust and make sweet music again


----------



## Marsen

Yes, Anne is a real jewel, and I love her straight-line talk. 
And I love her professional work.


----------



## zolhof

Anne is the real deal! Her presence on the forum is one of the reasons I keep lurking back, she adds a lot of credibility to the information presented here -- straight from the trenches to VI-Control, let's cherish that and be grateful.


----------



## Geoff Grace

I'm also enjoying your videos, *Anne*. Thanks for sharing your opinions, knowledge, and experience.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## ProfoundSilence

A.Dern said:


> Please cancel me for I lack humility


Working on it as we speak, wait until the twittersphere hears about this!



I'm going straight to HR


A.Dern said:


> your $5k worth of string libraries


I'll have you know that I don't think I've spent 5k on string libraries. I think it's close enough to demand a recount, but so far I've resisted the urge to purchase more lately. *cries in recovering sample addict*

Honestly I think I spent almost as much money on strings as I did on different reverbs trying to make sample modeling brass be something it wasn't.


----------



## tmhuud

I do get a big kick out of all the “will this blend with that????” 

This is one of my favorite blends.


----------



## fourier

As a hobbyist I'm very grateful for the straight-forward messaging from Anne. Subjective, honest vidoes from someone in the business is not a dime a dozen. And I actually find Anne to be very humble in her opinions, as she frequently underlines that this is what she thinks based on her experience. This is one of my pet peeves in today's society, how bombastic and trumpian people can be when discussing or promoting their views on things. So to me, this is all very refreshing.


----------



## b_elliott

I am a newb at what it takes to score to film so was fascinated with A-K Dern's video on strings amongst many other revelatory vids she made.

One comment from A-K was her template was cut from 1700 tracks to 800. Which leaves me with a question: What accounts for such high track counts? Is it that each instrument requires high track doublings (10 - 12 instances) to make the Hollywood sound; or, does, each articulation gets its own track (i.e., 40 articulations = 40 tracks)?

It was good for me to discover I don't need Vienna Ensemble Pro for my stuff; however, the question remains: What accounts for 800 tracks? 

Cheers from Canada.


----------



## Bear Market

I too would like to chime in just to express my gratitude to Anne-Kathrin for sharing her knowledge and views, and for the way in which she does it. Much appreciated!


----------



## Bear Market

b_elliott said:


> however, the question remains: What accounts for 800 tracks?


By the looks of Anne-Kathrin's youtube videos, it seems she favours the one-track-per-articulation approach. This will definitely contribute to the high track count. I'd also wager that there are a lot of auxes in her template as well, it appears she has a parallel compression aux setup for each instrument for example.


----------



## robgb

Humility. Jesus. Pot kettle, dude. Pot kettle.


----------



## ysnyvz

She recommends CSS over Cinestrings which she was part of production team. I think that shows honesty and humility. I also enjoyed the videos.


----------



## JonS

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I found this Youtube video by Composer *Anne-Kathrin Dern* very helpful, and interesting. She is discussing Strings Sample Libraries in Part 4 of her series on Sample Libraries. Hope this is useful.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



She is so strongly opinionated, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't agree with her take on her personal taste about string libraries. I am not as blown away by Cinematic Strings 2 and Cinematic Studio Strings as she is. I think the Albions, Spitfire Mural, Spitfire Sable, and Berlin Strings are all significantly better than her portrayal. She has every right to have such a strong opinion, but for those out there that may not own some of these libraries please note that it's just her personal opinion and other composers are not automatically going to agree with her at all. She bashes Cinestrings and then contradicts herself when she realizes how harsh her initial opinion came off, it's very wishy washy. Just know that you may love a string library that someone else thinks little of, so the only opinion that matters is yours!!


----------



## davidson

I'm pretty sure viewers come into her video knowing that they're about to hear someones _opinion _on x subject_. _If not, I don't know how they're navigating their way through life_._


----------



## yiph2

JonS said:


> She is so strongly opinionated, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't agree with her take on her personal taste about string libraries. I am not as blown away by Cinematic Strings 2 and Cinematic Studio Strings as she is. I think the Albions, Spitfire Mural, Spitfire Sable, and Berlin Strings are all significantly better than her portrayal. She has every right to have such a strong opinion, but for those out there that may not own some of these libraries please note that it's just her personal opinion and other composers are not automatically going to agree with her at all. She bashes Cinestrings and then contradicts herself when she realizes how harsh her initial opinion came off, it's very wishy washy. Just know that you may love a string library that someone else thinks little of, so the only opinion that matters is yours!!


Well that is your opinion as well. She isn't saying it's IS the best string library ever, she's saying that SHE THINKS they are (in the market anyways). Same as your opinion.


----------



## Dietz

Inevitable:


----------



## robgb

Getting butt hurt over someone's opinion about a sample library seems like a pointless waste of emotional real estate.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

robgb said:


> Getting butt hurt over someone's opinion about a sample library seems like a pointless waste of emotional real estate.


I dont care for CSS really(I don't own CS2), and as far as I'm concerned there's absolutely nothing that could take me away from my berlin strings setup at this point... so certainly feels really odd to see someone else feel that she has strong opinions. Although to be fair I usually try to stick to the "if you don't have anything nice to say" rule when it comes to libraries, because people do not like it when you don't like something they spend hundreds on - even if you've paid for the right to not like something you spend hundreds on!

Ohh well, if they wanted her to pretend to like everything but only use xyz her channel's not for them I guess.


----------



## JonS

yiph2 said:


> Well that is your opinion as well. She isn't saying it's IS the best string library ever, she's saying that SHE THINKS they are (in the market anyways). Same as your opinion.


I did not suggest any library is the best or the worst, it's for each individual to decide that opinion, that's all. I don't want anyone thinking the libraries she doesn't recommend are not worth looking into, that's all. Many top composers swear by the Berlin and Spitfire libraries, which she basically dismisses.


----------



## Trax

Ashermusic said:


> Maybe I am dense, or it is a cultural difference but it wasn't obvious to me you were joking.


I don't know about dense but you're missing some social cues. Even if she was serious and it wasn't hyperbole, I'm not sure what the harm is or how it is evidence of a lack of hubris. It's her opinion. And lastly, even if it was said in arrogance, not everyone is bothered by it, sometimes you're just there for the info, and it might not come in the most appetizing package, but beggars can't be choosers.


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## David Kudell

There is a wealth of valuable info in Anne-Kathrin's videos that you don't get anywhere else. Things like how to do MIDI cleanup or the difference between an agent and a manager. Most composers keep this info to themselves, but Anne shares it freely and without really asking for anything in return. These videos take a long time to make. She's got a ton of composing gigs, so it's not like she needs to spend the time. I've personally benefitted from her videos and it is directly helping me in my next stage as a composer.

I know most people here feel this way. And the couple people getting offended by whatever it is you're offended by, please get to work on your own 20 hours of YouTube content so we can judge it next.


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## Trax

ProfoundSilence said:


> I dont care for CSS really(I don't own CS2), and as far as I'm concerned there's absolutely nothing that could take me away from my berlin strings setup at this point... so certainly feels really odd to see someone else feel that she has strong opinions. Although to be fair I usually try to stick to the "if you don't have anything nice to say" rule when it comes to libraries, because people do not like it when you don't like something they spend hundreds on - even if you've paid for the right to not like something you spend hundreds on!
> 
> Ohh well, if they wanted her to pretend to like everything but only use xyz her channel's not for them I guess.


But that's what I'm watching videos for and reading this forum, to see how people view such and such libraries. Same things for Yelp in regards to restaurants. Different people have different valuations on what's important. And your criteria places Berlin strings higher than the criteria she uses. Her valuation doesn't invalidate yours nor is it an attack.

She also comes across as a "die Nutella" person when we all now it's "das" so...


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## Pier

Trax said:


> She also comes across as a "die Nutella" person when we all now it's "das" so...


In Italian it's "La Nutella" so obviously it must be "die Nutella"!


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## Jeremy Spencer

David Kudell said:


> I've personally benefitted from her videos and it is directly helping me in my next stage as a composer.


Me too! I actually just rebuilt my main template based on ideas from her VEPro videos. Very helpful, and very generous.


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## Marsen

David Kudell said:


> There is a wealth of valuable info in Anne-Kathrin's videos that you don't get anywhere else. Things like how to do MIDI cleanup or the difference between an agent and a manager. Most composers keep this info to themselves, but Anne shares it freely and without really asking for anything in return. These videos take a long time to make. She's got a ton of composing gigs, so it's not like she needs to spend the time. I've personally benefitted from her videos and it is directly helping me in my next stage as a composer.
> 
> I know most people here feel this way. And the couple people getting offended by whatever it is you're offended by, please get to work on your own 20 hours of YouTube content so we can judge it next.


This  !

I'm not native speaking english (but I keep on learning every single day).
I couldn't say it better, so thanks David.


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## Arbee

This thread is a perfect illustration that what you use is 20%, what you do with it is the 80%. Here's someone like Anne who doesn't enjoy mainstream Spitfire and doesn't even mention VSL (I think), and she's getting by just fine. Her videos remind me of the good old days of the Internet when people could say what they really thought, before sponsored opinion and digital marketing damage control became the norm.


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## JonS

David Kudell said:


> There is a wealth of valuable info in Anne-Kathrin's videos that you don't get anywhere else. Things like how to do MIDI cleanup or the difference between an agent and a manager. Most composers keep this info to themselves, but Anne shares it freely and without really asking for anything in return. These videos take a long time to make. She's got a ton of composing gigs, so it's not like she needs to spend the time. I've personally benefitted from her videos and it is directly helping me in my next stage as a composer.
> 
> I know most people here feel this way. And the couple people getting offended by whatever it is you're offended by, please get to work on your own 20 hours of YouTube content so we can judge it next.


Anne's YouTube channel is terrific!! I strongly recommend people check out her content!!


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## mybadmemory

Actually I can’t think of a better example of humility than being an accomplished professional generously sharing hours and hours of honest advice without asking for anything in return.

I’m quite doubtful though, if asking said accomplished person to “behave” solely based on her speaking her honest opinion in a cheerful and non-offensive way can be considered humility.


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## Waywyn

There is actually still one thing I still don't understand.

People on this forum painstakingly comparing isolated legato transitions and expose every tiny little negative detail on new libs on a daily basis = not a problem

Famous top composers talk about their best way on how to work on this or that with lib x or plug y or that they could never imagine to use this or do it like that = not a problem

Suddenly a tutorial video of someone who made it to Hollywood sharing valuable information creates such a stir.


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## Anders Wall

Waywyn said:


> Suddenly a tutorial video of someone who made it to Hollywood sharing valuable information creates such a stir.


Some people are just envious and mean.
The good thing about that is that others will take a stand and make sure that their voice also is heard. As some of you have.

...

I wish I had half the talent and half the guts do what she does.
And after reading some of her replies here I think (and sincerely hope) she’s not giving up on us 

@A.Dern You, may not realise it but you, are a role model for others in the best of ways.
Keep up the good work!

Best,
/Anders


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## pbobcat

Thanks for posting this! I posted a piece on the member forums a few days ago and @b_elliott 
mentioned A-K Dern in response. I must admit I had no idea who they were referring to - until now! I've watched a couple of her videos so far and I think I'm gonna spend the rest of my day off watching several more! An amazingly generous and super-talented lady! Cheers


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## ProfoundSilence

Waywyn said:


> There is actually still one thing I still don't understand.
> 
> People on this forum painstakingly comparing isolated legato transitions and expose every tiny little negative detail on new libs on a daily basis = not a problem
> 
> Famous top composers talk about their best way on how to work on this or that with lib x or plug y or that they could never imagine to use this or do it like that = not a problem
> 
> Suddenly a tutorial video of someone who made it to Hollywood sharing valuable information creates such a stir.



Wouldn't be the first time ego caused an issue. 

I'm only responding to it because I think it's funny how insecure some people are, and to keep bumping this thread, because I truly think her content might be more helpful to people getting into VI composing than more walkthroughs or reviewers who get excited about every new release. 

I can't blame them, but sometimes I wish I was limited to just miroslav again!


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## Trax

I don't know about insecure, people become fanboys about these libraries and they just take criticisms of the libraries personally. Synthy? You need have your ears check and shut up.


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## robgb

After listening to this video, if you aren't paying very close attention to what @A.Dern has to say about anything related to music, mock-ups, sample libraries, and orchestration, you are doing yourself a grave disservice.


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## Jdiggity1

Waywyn said:


> There is actually still one thing I still don't understand.
> 
> People on this forum painstakingly comparing isolated legato transitions and expose every tiny little negative detail on new libs on a daily basis = not a problem
> 
> Famous top composers talk about their best way on how to work on this or that with lib x or plug y or that they could never imagine to use this or do it like that = not a problem
> 
> Suddenly a tutorial video of someone who made it to Hollywood sharing valuable information creates such a stir.


You think _this_ thread created 'such a stir'? 
Boy have I got some threads to show you...


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## Jeremy Spencer

robgb said:


> After listening to this video, if you aren't paying very close attention to what @A.Dern has to say about anything related to music, mock-ups, sample libraries, and orchestration, you are doing yourself a grave disservice.



Wow! That is beautiful.

And it just goes to show...many of us already have the tools to create these type of orchestrations, we just need to stop obsessing about having the latest and greatest. It's so easy for me to take my VI's for granted, and I also get got up in the hype. As @ProfoundSilence mentioned about going back to more simple times, I completely agree. We have waaaaay more than we really need, and we probably spend too much time farting around finding the perfect legato patches and mic positions....something we could have only dreamed about years ago, yet we (ok, us older dudes) seemed to create some really cool stuff when VI's were limited.


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## robgb

Jeremy Spencer said:


> And it just goes to show...many of us already have the tools to create these type of orchestrations, we just need to stop obsessing about having the latest and greatest.


She has certainly made me go back and reevaluate some of my older libraries, including Cinematic Strings 2. I think too many times I get caught up in the hype from developers and forget about what I already have in the toolbox.


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## Alex Fraser

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Wow! That is beautiful.
> 
> And it just goes to show...many of us already have the tools to create these type of orchestrations, we just need to stop obsessing about having the latest and greatest. It's so easy for me to take my VI's for granted, and I also get got up in the hype. As @ProfoundSilence mentioned about going back to more simple times, I completely agree. We have waaaaay more than we really need, and we probably spend too much time farting around finding the perfect legato patches and mic positions....something we could have only dreamed about years ago, yet we (ok, us older dudes) seemed to create some really cool stuff when VI's were limited.


Agree here. Where sample libraries are concerned, the basic level of realism that can be achieved hasn’t really been moved forward in a while. 

What *has* changed is the ease of getting a good sound. As an example, BBCSO sounds great out of the box in a way I really don’t remember my copy of VSL spec edition sounding, at least not without a lot of futzing with levels, reverb etc.


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## robgb

Alex Fraser said:


> As an example, BBCSO sounds great out of the box in a way I really don’t remember my copy of VSL spec edition sounding, at least not without a lot of futzing with levels, reverb etc.


Yes, but the difference is that you could futz with VSL to get it to sound the way you wanted it to sound, not the way Spitfire wants it to sound.


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## Alex Fraser

robgb said:


> Yes, but the difference is that you could futz with VSL to get it to sound the way you wanted it to sound, not the way Spitfire wants it to sound.


Very true. And just to be clear to the thread, those are examples I plucked out of my backside, rather than an incoming VSL vs Spitfire thing. 😅


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## robgb

Alex Fraser said:


> Very true. And just to be clear to the thread, those are examples I plucked out of my backside, rather than an incoming VSL vs Spitfire thing. 😅


ROTFL!


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## Jeremy Spencer

Alex Fraser said:


> Very true. And just to be clear to the thread, those are examples I plucked out of my backside, rather than an incoming VSL vs Spitfire thing. 😅


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## b_elliott

robgb said:


> After listening to this video, if you aren't paying very close attention to what @A.Dern has to say about anything related to music, mock-ups, sample libraries, and orchestration, you are doing yourself a grave disservice.



Wow for emotional impact. 
What I'd give for a chance to be a fly on the wall to watch @A.Dern execute/produce this from start to finish... That would be up there as a learning experience.


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## robgb

b_elliott said:


> Wow for emotional impact.
> What I'd give for a chance to be a fly on the wall to watch @A.Dern execute/produce this from start to finish... That would be up there as a learning experience.


My thoughts exactly.


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## RonOrchComp

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I found this Youtube video by Composer *Anne-Kathrin Dern* very helpful, and interesting. She is discussing Strings Sample Libraries in Part 4 of her series on Sample Libraries. Hope this is useful.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Glad to see women are starting to do more, and getting a little more exposure in this field. 

Couple of things she said which rub me the wrong way.

First, how she said that people should not be asking for portamento, and all of "these other things" (artics). Wrong - we should be asking. That's because too many string libraries are just the bread and butter samples. But we shouldn't ask?

Then she said, in reference to 8Dios Adagio, that nobody has time to load all these legato patches to see what works best. Huh???

Then she said that LASS's divisi just "doesn't work". Wrong.

Then she said that with Hollywood Strings, the sound doesn't hold up anymore. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and here's mine - she is _completely_ wrong. Hollywood Strings still sounds as good as any library out there, and better than most.

Nice music in the video, however


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## dcoscina

I will just say I enjoy Anne-Kathrin's videos. They are informative, engaging and I enjoy watching the new ones when they pop up in my subscription notifications on YT.


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## dcoscina

b_elliott said:


> Wow for emotional impact.
> What I'd give for a chance to be a fly on the wall to watch @A.Dern execute/produce this from start to finish... That would be up there as a learning experience.


They are really good aren't they? A lot of excellent info but delivered in a very relatable manner. She could/should teach a course. Seriously. So many "experts" on YT, it's often hard to separate the real authorities from the posers. Well, it's not hard but I'd say there are far less really legit folks in any given discipline on there. AKD is definitely one of the good ones (and Thomas Goss, ie Orchestration On-line)


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