# [VIDEO] Offline Stems in Logic



## Garlu

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to share a method on how to create offline stems in Logic (similar to batch export, in Cubase). This topic came out on Christian Henson's #14 video ("_All about stems_"), so, I hope this helps -sorry for my spaniard accent!  



Best,

Vanessa G.
"Garlu"


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## samphony

And to give another hint. You can bounce regions and tracks in place on aux tracks since Logic Pro X 10.3.2 as well!


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## samphony

Well done Vanessa!

You can also select the three AUX tracks go to export
Export 3 Tracks.

Or put each group into its own summing stack (which will automatically assign an aux and make it the folder) and put each groups reverb aux into the groups summing stack (control + T). 
command select each summing stack
Go to export 
Export 3 Tracks
Done


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## Garlu

samphony said:


> Well done Vanessa!
> 
> You can also select the three AUX tracks go to export
> Export 3 Tracks.
> 
> Or put each group into its own summing stack (which will automatically assign an aux and make it the folder) and put each groups reverb aux into the groups summing stack (control + T).
> command select each summing stack
> Go to export
> Export 3 Tracks
> Done



Cool! It makes sense! Thanks for adding those options. 

I think I tried something similar a few weeks ago and the lenght of the stems were influenced by the regions inside, meaning, I didn't get the same lenght from all of them. Could you do that with the "loop" selection, so, the lenght would be the same? I might have to try it! 

Glad to see Apple is implementing some workflow improvements. 

Thank you, @samphony!


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## Ashermusic

Very nicely done, Vanessa.

That said, I am going to recommend that people follow your methodology to a point, all the routing etc, but then, unless it is a ridiculously long project, that instead of creating blank regions on the Stem tracks and bouncing offline, you instead create audio tracks with those busses as inputs, arm them, and hit record to do it in real time.

Here's why:

1. Some plug-ins, do not behave identically every time you play through them, which is a good thing.
2. Some plug-ins, notably Play, do not behave so well with offline bouncing.
3. When you are in the heat of the moment, things can escape your attention then when you start to record in real time, sit back in your chair and listen., you notice and want to adjust. That doesn't happen if you bounce offline.

But again, nicely done.


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## samphony

@Ashermusic 

Correct. I prefer that method as as well. But I'm also glad that since 10.3.2 we are able to bounce in place on aux (and therefore summing stacks as well)


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## Garlu

Ashermusic said:


> Very nicely done, Vanessa.
> 
> That said, I am going to recommend that people follow your methodology to a point, all the routing etc, but then, unless it is a ridiculously long project, that instead of creating blank regions on the Stem tracks and bouncing offline, you instead create audio tracks with those busses as inputs, arm them, and hit record to do it in real time.
> 
> Here's why:
> 
> 1. Some plug-ins, do not behave identically every time you play through them, which is a good thing.
> 2. Some plug-ins, notably Play, do not behave so well with offline bouncing.
> 3. When you are in the heat of the moment, things can escape your attention then when you start to record in real time, sit back in your chair and listen., you notice and want to adjust. That doesn't happen if you bounce offline.
> 
> But again, nicely done.



Thanks Jay! 

Totally agreed. I'd even add: 
4. Having a visual/realtime representation helps on the double checking part. (reinforcing your #3). 
5. You'd always have the audio stems in the session. In case you open it 2 years later and you might not have the same plugins/libraries so, at least, you have already everything as part of your session. 
6. If you need to punch in for a section you have reviewed, you can crossfade your edit and consolidate the audio (so, really there is no need to start the stems from all the way from the beginning). 

I just wanted to share the method/possibility of doing it offline. 

Thanks again!


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## Ashermusic

Garlu said:


> Thanks Jay!
> 
> Totally agreed. I'd even add:
> 4. Having a visual/realtime representation helps on the double checking part. (reinforcing your #3).
> 5. You'd always have the audio stems in the session. In case you open it 2 years later and you might not have the same plugins/libraries so, at least, you have already everything as part of your session.
> 6. If you need to punch in for a section you have reviewed, you can crossfade your edit and consolidate the audio (so, really there is no need to start the stems from all the way from the beginning).
> 
> I just wanted to share the method/possibility of doing it offline.
> 
> Thanks again!



Well, you know that I hold you in the highest regard.


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## Gerhard Westphalen

Ashermusic said:


> That said, I am going to recommend that people follow your methodology to a point, all the routing etc, but then, unless it is a ridiculously long project, that instead of creating blank regions on the Stem tracks and bouncing offline, you instead create audio tracks with those busses as inputs, arm them, and hit record to do it in real time.



The problem I find with that is you can't trust that those files will be recorded properly. In other words, you should always listen to the final exported files. If you're first recording, then you're doing to have to listen through everything twice instead of just offline and then listening.


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## Ashermusic

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> The problem I find with that is you can't trust that those files will be recorded properly. In other words, you should always listen to the final exported files. If you're first recording, then you're doing to have to listen through everything twice instead of just offline and then listening.



Better one time too many than one time too few


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## Garlu

Ashermusic said:


> Well, you know that I hold you in the highest regard.



Idem (Likewise)! Trying to learn from the bests (like you), with all my respect and admiration! 

@Gerhard Westphalen: why don't you trust your recorded files on realtime?


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## Kent

I've heard that offline rendering is done internally via the Mac's sound card, while a real-time bounce will utilize the interface. Is that true, or does it even matter...assuming no time constraints, of course?


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## NoamL

Thank you Vanessa! I've been using a method similar to yours except I arm the auxiliaries and live-record. Your way is better!

However I agree with @Gerhard Westphalen that the boring task of listening to each stem (ideally in small batches of 3-4 stems at a time) is unavoidable regardless of which method one uses. The reason I don't trust live recorded stems is because I'm listening to the entire arrangement and my ears just aren't that good. Bad automation or even clicks and pops, which would be obvious when soloing a stem, can sneak in undetected when live-recording 19 or 20 stems of a giant session.

I once got a 3:30 AM phone call because one of my tracks being mixed in London had a stupidly obvious pop in one of the synth prelays because of an overlooked bit of bad automation. I was not happy... but the composer I was working for managed to be even less happy  Since then... I audition every stem, every time!! No matter how good a session sounds on my computer, I never trust it. Only the deliverables will ever matter to the outside world.


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## NoamL

Oh also - what screen recording software are you using? Looks like it works well.


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## Gerhard Westphalen

Garlu said:


> Idem (Likewise)! Trying to learn from the bests (like you), with all my respect and admiration!
> 
> @Gerhard Westphalen: why don't you trust your recorded files on realtime?



Firstly, you don't know if what you're hearing is what's actually being recorded and if anything has happened after you stop recording that can affect the file. Secondly, unless you're going into the folder and getting the files, you'll export a second time to get the files out of your DAW where there can be problems introduced. You should always listen to the final files you're exporting. Just like if you're uploading them somewhere for them to be streamed, you should again check them. You always need to make sure that it's working at the last stage you're delivering. 

I just finished mastering an album and even though it sounded fine in Sequoia, I still listened to the 96k files, the 44.1k files, and the MP3's. If there were an error in the 96k then it would have likely shown up in the 44.1k so it probably wasn't necessary to listen to those but better safe than sorry.


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## Garlu

kmaster said:


> I've heard that offline rendering is done internally via the Mac's sound card, while a real-time bounce will utilize the interface. Is that true, or does it even matter...assuming no time constraints, of course?



I am not aware of that... Sorry!



NoamL said:


> Oh also - what screen recording software are you using? Looks like it works well.



I am using Screenflow (still on version 5, I think they have just released version 7 tho). 
- My main center screen is a 32' Samsung (S32D850T) with a resolution of 2560 x 1440, so, I recorded at that resolution (eventhough youtube will scale it down later on). 
- Audiowise, I am using an Apogee One, recording both computer audio and the SM7 mic (into another track, so, I can balance the levels later on while editing). 
- The "webcam" is actually an ipad pro (with the camera app open, I know, it's a not too professional solution but, it works!). Screenflow gives you the choice to record the iOs screen as another video source. 

@NoamL / @Gerhard Westphalen - totally agreed on your points. Sorry I didn't formulate the question properly... why do you think Logic (or any other DAW) would have those "glitches" of pops, etc, when bouncing? 

And yes, always, triple check everything. I am on the same boat! 
I also teach and you can't imagine how many times I'd play a file from a student and it'd be printed without reverb, or with tails cut, weird changes on automation, etc. etc.


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## samphony

I never had these glitches in the current version. 
I'm also happy where logic is heading. Including feature requests that finally get incooperated.


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## dgburns

kmaster said:


> I've heard that offline rendering is done internally via the Mac's sound card, while a real-time bounce will utilize the interface. Is that true, or does it even matter...assuming no time constraints, of course?



To my knowledge, offline bounce is completely internal to Logic (not influenced by external gear in anyway). As Jay said, some plugins do not perform as well as in realtime, so you should do some tests to determine if you're ok with the output from an offlne bounce.

Also, while we can set higher quality settings for offline vs realtime, I've heard some users found the higher oversampling "in some case and with certain plugins" rendered a result that differed from the realtime result and they subjectively preferred the realtime output. YMMV.
Obviously time based effects won't null, so null tests won't always help. But you could always freeze a track prior to offline bounce just to test the result and see which you prefer and measured against a null test. (you can hear what the difference is)

I tend to do realtime bounces myself. That way I get what I heard while working. again YMMV.


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## Ashermusic

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Firstly, you don't know if what you're hearing is what's actually being recorded and if anything has happened after you stop recording that can affect the file. Secondly, unless you're going into the folder and getting the files, you'll export a second time to get the files out of your DAW where there can be problems introduced. You should always listen to the final files you're exporting. Just like if you're uploading them somewhere for them to be streamed, you should again check them. You always need to make sure that it's working at the last stage you're delivering.
> 
> I just finished mastering an album and even though it sounded fine in Sequoia, I still listened to the 96k files, the 44.1k files, and the MP3's. If there were an error in the 96k then it would have likely shown up in the 44.1k so it probably wasn't necessary to listen to those but better safe than sorry.



That is absolutely true Gerhard, and it is my practice as well. It does not however mean that when you sit back in your chair and listen as it is bouncing, you will not notice things that you will later wish you had adjusted that you did not notice in the "heat of battle." It happens to me all the time. And yes, I "go into the folder and get the files" rather than exporting them a second time.


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## reflekshun8

For those interested in fast offline export of stems (including for track stacks / summing tracks which is Logic's biggest batch export omission even in its current version), here's the fastest way I've found to do this:

1) Set cycle range to song length

2) Name ONLY the tracks / track stacks you want as final stems with number prefixes (01 Piano, 02 Strings etc). 

3) Select 'Export all tracks as audio files'. 

4) In finder / explorer, you should clearly see the exported files without number prefixes - delete these and you'll have your intended tracks and track stacks as stems in one single offline export! 

I hope this helps / makes sense to whoever needs it in the future.


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## samphony

Why All Tracks as Audio Files?
I find the new exporting scheme with batch renaming very convenient!

In my case command click on the track stacks and Export x number Tracks as Audio Files does the job or as suggested before realtime stemming does the job as well.


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## reflekshun8

samphony said:


> Why All Tracks as Audio Files?
> I find the new exporting scheme with batch renaming very convenient!
> 
> In my case command click on the track stacks and Export x number Tracks as Audio Files does the job or as suggested before realtime stemming does the job as well.



I've tried that originally what happened was, it would export all files within the track stack. But thanks to your post on this, I tried it again. The problem is this: you need to use CMD+clicks to select the tracks, and NOT shift+clicks. If you shift click tracks, even if track stacks are closed, it will assume you are selecting each individual track inside the track stacks and export all the innards of the track stack.

So.. Thank you very much, this solves an annoying problem I couldn't find an answer to.

You just gotta remember - CMD+CLICK!


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## reflekshun8

While on this topic, I am getting a strange naming behavior from Logic on exports - When I export stems, during the export it will have '01 strings.wav, 02 Piano.wav etc.' as I've named them. But after the export is done, it renames them with a '_1' suffix '01 strings_1.wav 02 Piano_1.wav'

Am I doing something wrong? I am putting these in a completely empty folder for the first time and it's doing this.


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## samphony

reflekshun8 said:


> While on this topic, I am getting a strange naming behavior from Logic on exports - When I export stems, during the export it will have '01 strings.wav, 02 Piano.wav etc.' as I've named them. But after the export is done, it renames them with a '_1' suffix '01 strings_1.wav 02 Piano_1.wav'
> 
> Am I doing something wrong? I am putting these in a completely empty folder for the first time and it's doing this.


Just post a picture of your export dialog window.


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## reflekshun8

Sure! Thanks for taking the time - I have also tried a full system reset, same thing keeps happening. Each time I have tried in different new and empty folders, making sure there are no duplicates.

Export Dialog:





Files During Export:





Files After Export is Completed:


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## reflekshun8

I was just told on the logicprohelp forum that this naming behavior is normal and not a bug. Can anyone confirm this?

Seems like a very inconvenient naming convention. Unless there is a duplicate in the folder being exported to, I don't think anyone wants this. It makes it just that bit more difficult to transfer stems to another DAW / engineer. Looks messy for no good reason and no one wants a _1 on every channel of their project when they import it.


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## Garlu

reflekshun8 said:


> I was just told on the logicprohelp forum that this naming behavior is normal and not a bug. Can anyone confirm this?
> 
> Seems like a very inconvenient naming convention. Unless there is a duplicate in the folder being exported to, I don't think anyone wants this. It makes it just that bit more difficult to transfer stems to another DAW / engineer. Looks messy for no good reason and no one wants a _1 on every channel of their project when they import it.



In Finder, a little workaround: 
- Select all your audio files with the "_1" in the end. 
- Right click/"Rename x items".
- Replace text/ Find "_1" / Replace with "". [leave that space blank]
- Hit rename.
- Boom! All your files wont' have that "_1" in the end.

It's pretty fast, actually!


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## reflekshun8

Garlu said:


> In Finder, a little workaround:
> - Select all your audio files with the "_1" in the end.
> - Right click/"Rename x items".
> - Replace text/ Find "_1" / Replace with "". [leave that space blank]
> - Hit rename.
> - Boom! All your files wont' have that "_1" in the end.
> 
> It's pretty fast, actually!



Wow, that is the best workaround I've heard in a while! Thanks - that really helps


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## composerguy78

This is how I do my stems. I do it offline but either could work. I use an app called Keyboard Maestro which automates this process. I then drag and drop the files from the Finder and create a summing stack of the stems and check them carefully! I have now created variations of this workflow some which will bounce just one at a time, one that waits for you to press a key once finished each stem. I want to make one which can wait until the bouncing is done by monitoring a pixel but I haven’t had much success with that in the past. 
This really takes the tedium out of bouncing stems for me.


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## holing

Thanks Vanessa, this is really helpful!


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