# Best variant for my next generation setup?



## widescreen (Apr 15, 2021)

What would be better as my next generation setup?

My starting point: my main PC (i7 8700, 32 GB, 6 TB SSDs) with S1 Pro. I have more machines, but they should not matter now (notebook and older PCs).

My template before I switched to using presets was around 1100 inactive instances of Komplete Kontrol. But I'll probably stay under 200 active tracks. I like NKS, especially the Light Guide as I use a Komplete Kontrol S Mk2.

I have 2 variants in mind:

*1. Server+VEPro*

I could grab a used server (like for example a Dell T620/R720 or similar) with 256 GB or more RAM to host most of what I have (a lot) inside VEPro. So I would forget any RAM problems virtually forever. I already have a 10G network with free ports. My actual workstation could stay perhaps a little longer, 32 GB could then be enough?

On the negative side would be the problems with NKS and Light Guide as it is not supported when VEPro with the hosted instruments is not on the same machine as the keyboard. It would work when I connect it directly to the server. But that will not work because the server will be in a cellar room. Or is there any not so expensive solution for getting USB fully supported over Ethernet? But even if that worked, how could I work on my client machine when the keyboard is connected to the server? Is there any possibility to get it to work simultaneously on both PCs? Sounds unrealistic with my knowledge of IT technology. I could then better work fully remote on the server, but that would arise completely other big problems.


*2. Only 1 Workstation (with VEPro?)*

I could build a PC at reasonable costs with the newest i7 and 128 GB RAM (more is not supported without switching over to the Xeon platform).
How likely will that be enough for my purposes as described above? Would the benefit of VEPro be that great to justify the license costs? I think I will not switch between projects that often, so I would tolerate some loading time if not occuring too often.

Would I need more RAM and have to switch to Xeon? Of course, if it is really necessary, I would consider that.

Which of the 2 solutions seems better? Or is there perhaps a 3rd one I did not think of already?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.


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## colony nofi (Apr 15, 2021)

I personally love working on single systems.
And this comes from someone who for quite sometime used 4 mac minis as a portable VEP setup back 10 years ago or so. And at different times has had VEP on a separate machine.
Having a single workstation just clears my headspace for some reason. 

I'm currently running a VERY old mac pro trashcan (bought the day they came out) and I push it extremely hard. I'm itching to upgrade, but personally waiting for the new M series chip in a workstation to come out sometime in the next 18 months. And if I needed a new machine tomorrow, I would jump on a 5950X with 128GB ram... or an Epyc 73F3 or 74F3 workstation if I thought CPU was a big issue, and I wanted more addressable Ram. Looking again at the Milan Epycs... wow the F series sku's could really be amazing composition workstations! Someone lend me one and I'll happily test it.... ha! (There have been known issues with low buffer performance with Zen 2 based Epyc and Threadrippers... there is a good chance these will go away with the new Zen 3 architecture, but until someone tests, we won't know. And getting a $2-$3k chip just to test is a pretty big ask.

After the recent new Xeon release, I would def lean towards AMD - although at least we know that Xeon based workstations - er - work (!) well, and they are performance beasts. (There are conditions where a straight 10 or 11 series desktop chip will surpass the performance though - much comes down to HOW you use your machine.)

Don't forget, you can still run VEP on a single workstation - and it works incredibly well (although your true buffer is not then the buffer set in your sound card...)


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## widescreen (Apr 16, 2021)

colony nofi said:


> I personally love working on single systems.
> And this comes from someone who for quite sometime used 4 mac minis as a portable VEP setup back 10 years ago or so. And at different times has had VEP on a separate machine.
> Having a single workstation just clears my headspace for some reason.


One machine for all is from that sight surely a benefit. 


colony nofi said:


> I'm currently running a VERY old mac pro trashcan (bought the day they came out) and I push it extremely hard. I'm itching to upgrade, but personally waiting for the new M series chip in a workstation to come out sometime in the next 18 months. And if I needed a new machine tomorrow, I would jump on a 5950X with 128GB ram... or an Epyc 73F3 or 74F3 workstation if I thought CPU was a big issue, and I wanted more addressable Ram. Looking again at the Milan Epycs... wow the F series sku's could really be amazing composition workstations! Someone lend me one and I'll happily test it.... ha! (There have been known issues with low buffer performance with Zen 2 based Epyc and Threadrippers... there is a good chance these will go away with the new Zen 3 architecture, but until someone tests, we won't know. And getting a $2-$3k chip just to test is a pretty big ask.


So 128GB seem to suffice.


colony nofi said:


> After the recent new Xeon release, I would def lean towards AMD - although at least we know that Xeon based workstations - er - work (!) well, and they are performance beasts. (There are conditions where a straight 10 or 11 series desktop chip will surpass the performance though - much comes down to HOW you use your machine.)


What makes me skeptical about AMD are the chipsets. I read too much about problems with USB etc. But I'll definitely wait for the next generation. The new released one seems to be no big masterpiece.


colony nofi said:


> Don't forget, you can still run VEP on a single workstation - and it works incredibly well (although your true buffer is not then the buffer set in your sound card...)


Is the benefit running VEPro on a single machine that big that I would pay ~150€ for that (more than half the price as for S1 Pro)?


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## colony nofi (Apr 16, 2021)

widescreen said:


> One machine for all is from that sight surely a benefit.
> 
> So 128GB seem to suffice.
> 
> ...


If you’re into the VEP workflow, then sure - it’s worth it. Not everyone likes it. I’ve moved away from it.
There’s some evidence it allows you to push your machine further / allows better use of multi threaded CPU’s although I wouldn’t call it conclusive. It’s hard to get meaningful results as using VEP changes the number of buffers used - so it is similar to just increasing the buffers on your audio interface. My personal testing could not replicate the results often seen on this forum when correcting for buffers. 

oh - and for most projects, 128GB is fine. I’d say 90% of professional composers are at or below this figure right now. Some folk use ram heavy workflows, but not many. Personally? Sure - I’d rather 256 I guess - but right now I’m restricted to using a (slower) 128GB kit in the trash can. And I could count on one hand the number of times I truly ran out of memory and couldn’t do something pretty simple to get around it.


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## Pictus (Apr 17, 2021)

widescreen said:


> What makes me skeptical about AMD are the chipsets. I read too much about problems with USB etc. But I'll definitely wait for the next generation.


The current problem is when PCIe is set to GEN4, keeping at GEN3 and no problem.
I am using a BETA BIOS and *here* it fixed the problems...
Some people still have problems with GEN4 and USB with the BETA BIOS, I suspect
the problems may be something else like bad configuration or PSU...


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