# HW Synths: Do you prefer desktop or keyboard?



## pmountford (Sep 8, 2021)

I'm wondering how you get on with desktop variants of hardware synths over the keyboard version. What's your preference and why? 

I know space may dictate choice but how do you get on playing a keybed that may be physically from the synth and therefore presumably losing some of the knob control interaction? Does it not just feel like another VST? Or do you just hook it up to the closest keyboard?

At the moment for me I like to turn a synth on and play. But for cost and space reasons I'm starting to consider the desktop variants.

Curious to hear how others work.


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## davidson (Sep 8, 2021)

Keyboard every time. Without its own keys a synth doesn't feel like an instrument to me, like a guitar with a fretboard. The only exception is if it has alternative controls like the desktop hydrasynth with its pad layout.


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## pmountford (Sep 8, 2021)

davidson said:


> Keyboard every time. Without its own keys a synth doesn't feel like an instrument to me, like a guitar with a fretboard. The only exception is if it has alternative controls like the desktop hydrasynth with its pad layout.


Thanks for that because that's what I suspect I'd feel too. Interesting you mention the Hydrasynth as that was one I was thinking benefited both from the Poly aftertouch (which I don't currently have on any keyboard) and of course the ribbon controller?


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## digitallysane (Sep 8, 2021)

pmountford said:


> At the moment for me I like to turn a synth on and play. But for cost and space reasons I'm starting to consider the desktop variants.
> 
> Curious to hear how others work.


I'm looking hard at the UNO Synth Pro Desktop.
To stay small, it only has a capacitive keyboard which does allow for direct interaction, but for more elaborate playing you'd use another controller. Kind of best of both worlds. And for those who do prefer VST-like interaction, it has a computer editor as well.

I'm using my MODX in both ways: mostly at its own keyboard, tweaking its controls, but also from my desk, driving it from a Studiologic SL73 controller (which also has aftertouch, which the MODX lacks), usually only when playing, not when tweaking patches.
But I got the nice set of 3rd party tools that allow VST-like editing from the computer, so I could do that when I'm at my desk. Didn't experiment with that, yet.


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## Zanshin (Sep 8, 2021)

Desktop for me (just Rev2 16 voice and Virus TI2 atm). Keyboards wear out.

My one exception is the Digitone Keys, I use that as my on top of my desk keyboard (great synth action, smooooooth mod and pitch wheels, fast access to octave shift, METAL shell - feels high quality and could double as a club in a pinch). I also use a SL73 as my "performance" keys too.


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## RogiervG (Sep 8, 2021)

currently i do not own a hardware synth, but i used to have quite a few (sold them around 2008/9 after years of owning). And i always prefered rack versions or desktops (too keep it compact!), except for my main machine (workstation: triton pro x), since that keybed was very good (hammer action, weighted keys, solid quality: you could really punch those keys without problems). De controls on the modules i had where good enough for manipulation in real time, or i used cc controls, via the separate midi controller i had (faders and such) i cannot remember the brand or model weirdly enough.
So, no it didn't feel like with vsti's on a flat screen: very abstract.
No, with hardware, the physical element like the real 3d visuals to look at and the knobs/faders/buttons, inspire and does a thing to your creativity, that i miss with vsti's.
I am considering going back to hardware synths/rompler and such for some knob turning, button pressing galore, you don't have with vsti... (feeling of direct control over a sound source unit instead of a computer program)
there are a few nice synths released in last few years.. that are not to steep priced and provide nice abilites...


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 8, 2021)

Desktop, primarily because of space. I'm also not a piano player. If I had space for one full size synth with keyboard, I would. But beyond that it seems both space-wasteful and worse overall ergonomically than having thing within easier reach without having to move much or lean.


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## TomislavEP (Sep 8, 2021)

I have a lot of experience as a live, session, and studio player and have always preferred desktop workstations and synths; IMO these are more compact and practical for such uses. All my current instruments are still the desktop ones.

For compositional work (involving VI's), I use two dedicated keyboard controllers, one of them fully weighted 88 keys type. I'm primarily a pianist but for everything else, I prefer to have a secondary controller with a lighter touch and all types of controls on-board.


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## Double Helix (Sep 8, 2021)

I currently have four hardware synths; none is a desktop (although my Korg Radias is essentially a module with the optional keyboard attached)


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## pmountford (Sep 9, 2021)

Perhaps I should have also mentioned the mini format aswell? Obviously there's the Roland Jupiter XM but just announced today is the Hydrasynth Explorer which is a 37 mini key form (with poly aftertouch). So is this mini format of synths a great compromise between full-size and desktop or neither one thing or another?


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## Marcus Millfield (Sep 10, 2021)

That depends if I mean to play the instrument or want to sequence it. Typically, I'd like the former, which means a keyboard as latency kills the connection with an instrument for me.


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## mscp (Sep 10, 2021)

I prefer one master keyboard (semi-weighted) and a few distinct synth modules. I dislike having several keyboard synths or a bazillion synths because of added redundancy. Marie Kondo style. lol.


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## node01 (Dec 10, 2021)

For those who are using modules instead of the keyboard versions, do you find any issues when played with your main midi keyboard very fast resulting in omitted midi notes in your DAW? I'm on Cubase 11 but somehow can't seem to play very fast passages because when you do, either some notes overlap or it's just that some midi notes aren't heard and not showing up. Maybe this problem occurs with monosynths only? However, I play my Sub25 Moog and all notes are heard and shows up in the midi inside Cubase...


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## proxima (Dec 10, 2021)

I went with a minilogue xd module for space, but sometimes it would be nice to treat it as a standalone synth. After all, these days the reason to use actual hardware is for the physical interface and inspiration of it. Still don't regret the smaller form factor, but how you weigh that versus the direct experience is completely a matter of taste.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 10, 2021)

node01 said:


> For those who are using modules instead of the keyboard versions, do you find any issues when played with your main midi keyboard very fast resulting in omitted midi notes in your DAW? I'm on Cubase 11 but somehow can't seem to play very fast passages because when you do, either some notes overlap or it's just that some midi notes aren't heard and not showing up. Maybe this problem occurs with monosynths only? However, I play my Sub25 Moog and all notes are heard and shows up in the midi inside Cubase...


No issues here. All MIDI except for the USB interface. A couple Kenton Merge and Thrus, as well.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 10, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> Neither for me. I got seduced into a desktop analogue. Bought a neutron. Sounds fine, but frankly working with gear out of the box is slow and tedious, for very little benefit in the end mix. Probably going to sell my neutron.


It's really not slow or tedious (depending on your definitions) depending on how you have it set up. It's definitely less convenient than software because you can't have multiple instances of things unless wealthy and/or with lots of space to put them, and you can't drag and drop hardware without likely damaging it.

But, depending on your hardware choices, it also does things/sounds like what software cannot do (else use the software, is my perspective), and is barely less convenient. You also get more skilled with using it, recording it, looping it, etc. I have 3 desktop hardware synths (could max out at 4 next year) with no direct software emulation, and the hardware also inspires me to use more than software - though I do love Repro1 and Polysix. If your hardware doesn't do that, then definitely consider selling it, as it isn't worth keeping (in my view). At least in part, it sounds like you bought the wrong hardware for you.


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## zwhita (Dec 10, 2021)

Desktop to save space and are usually cheaper. Plus I am a terrible keyboard player.


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## rgames (Dec 10, 2021)

I've faced the same dilemma recently. Prior to a few years ago I never had any hardware synths but somehow I now have six - five with keyboard and one module, though a large one (Behringer 2600).

The Prophet Rev 2 is an outstanding keyboard, so I definitely prefer that one with keyboard and I use it regularly as a synth controller, both hardware and software synths. But I think I'd be fine having the others as modules, especially the couple I have with 37 or fewer keys (Pro 3 and Minibrute 2).

For me the issue is not really the space but the clutter. I just don't like the look of a bunch of keyboards.

At least a bunch of synths around a studio don't resonate and kill recordings like a bunch of guitars.

rgames


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 11, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> I think the more I've learnt about synths the more I've realised it's hardware that can't do what software can, not the other way around.
> 
> There was a post on here recently from Mr Zimmer, where he said he'd rather use zebra than his actual cs80. That kinda says it all.
> 
> Hw is sexy, and great if you need to perform live, but for production I think it's not necessary or even that beneficial.


You may think what you want, but it goes both ways. There are, indeed, things that both can do that the other cannot. That's why many people use both. And, if you want a particular sound that only hardware can make, well.... And the reverse is certainly true, as well.

If YOU don't find it necessary or beneficial, so be it. But I, for myself, have found it both necessary and beneficial, and it has kept me making music. It is easy to blend, for example, Repro1 with my OB-6 (they get along very well). Damage2 drums spicing up those from my Digitone. And so on.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 11, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> Hey, sorry didn't mean to offend, and you're right, it's only my perspective, definitely wasn't trying to force my view onto you or anyone else. Hw is sexy! Enjoy it!


No worries. All good here. Just a bit passionate perhaps 

I did go out of my way with the hardware by

1) getting only desktop synths and effects so they can be within easy reach where I sit and use my software synths and effects

2) having only one controller (Keystep 37 is adequate since I've no piano training)

3) getting an Expert Sleepers USAMO device for accurate and steady MIDI clock

Even still, after recording audio, many times I still need to nudge the recorded audio one way or the other to line it up on the timeline. But, after I do, it's as rock solid accurate and on time as any software synth (or at least close enough where any fractional millisecond difference is "humanization" - heh).

I shared your concerns and questions. That's how I started with the SE-02 instead of something more grand (and more than a grand in cost). Over time, I've added more elements with no 1:1 emulation on the desktop - though there's definitely some overlap since software can do so much and be so many things. My primary goal with the SE-02 was actually to see if I could better learn the basics of subtractive synthesis with a physical synth... and it worked for me. Even more interesting was that I learned even more on my OB-6 than I did with the SE-02, such that now I can use the SE-02 better thanks to having the OB-6.


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## shmuelyosef (Dec 14, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I shared your concerns and questions. That's how I started with the SE-02 instead of something more grand (and more than a grand in cost). Over time, I've added more elements with no 1:1 emulation on the desktop - though there's definitely some overlap since software can do so much and be so many things. My primary goal with the SE-02 was actually to see if I could better learn the basics of subtractive synthesis with a physical synth... and it worked for me. Even more interesting was that I learned even more on my OB-6 than I did with the SE-02, such that now I can use the SE-02 better thanks to having the OB-6.


I bought my OB-6 before the module came out (have always loved the Oberheim filter sound). That said, I rarely play it from the included keyboard, and do most of my voice design using the internal sequencer. I also have an SE-02. 
I have long kept two keyboards nearby for inputting...I am a multi-instrumentalist, but have been playing piano for >60 years (creepy...huh?). 
- Nord Electro 6HP - nice hammer action keyboard...bonus with lots of interesting programmable voices and excellent onboard effects...this is my 3rd in a series of Nord pianos as they keep getting better and have great resale. Good for pads and chords inputting. Makes a decent controller for input (but no faders or programmable knobs)
- Novation SL MkIII controller for synth action and reasonable complement of faders, knobs, sequencer, arpeggiator, drum pads, etc...for light action synth work with controller inputs.


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