# How: get ProTools to chase your DAW?



## JohnG (Dec 10, 2010)

Does anyone know how to get PT, on computer A, to chase a cue sequenced on computer B? The initial goal would be to have the SMPTE on the cue match the PT file.

The next question: Is there an automated way to get the bars and beats to line up on the PT computer, or does one have to export a midi map to PT?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 10, 2010)

The easiest way is just to send MIDI Time Code (MTC) from the chaser to the chasee and put PT online (command ; if I remember right). But MTC should just be used for triggering (now that we're not chasing tape machines) - you'll still need to lock the digital clocks if you're running audio on both machines.

There's no way to get the bars and beats to line up that I've ever heard of.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 10, 2010)

MIDI clock sends song position pointer, so the beats will match, but it's a primitive system. You'll need to import a SMF I think.


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## gsilbers (Dec 10, 2010)

what DAW? 

im doing it with logic. 

both chase each others mtc. so if hit play in PT in will play in logic as well and vice versa. that took me a while to figure out. 

im not in front of PT right now and i dont remember the exact settings. check the DUC forum. there are a few threads about it.


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## JohnG (Dec 10, 2010)

The DAW is Digital Performer. Both computers are getting word clock from the same master source, so that particular issue is sorted.

I'll see if I can figure out the midi; I'm using MidiOverLAN CP, so I have plenty of capacity at least.

Thanks! As far as bars and beats I do have to figure that one out, so that I can record overdubs at remote locations. But it may be that some kind of midi tempo map has to be imported by PT from DP.


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## JohnG (Dec 10, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ 10th December 2010 said:


> MIDI clock sends song position pointer, so the beats will match, but it's a primitive system. You'll need to import a SMF I think.



Thanks Nick -- what's an SMF?


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## José Herring (Dec 10, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Dec 10 said:


> The easiest way is just to send MIDI Time Code (MTC) from the chaser to the chasee and put PT online (command ; if I remember right). But MTC should just be used for triggering (now that we're not chasing tape machines) - you'll still need to lock the digital clocks if you're running audio on both machines.
> 
> There's no way to get the bars and beats to line up that I've ever heard of.



Yep. Can't help with the specifics, but you would use MTC. MMC (midi machine control). MMC will control the transport (play, stop, record, ect) of PT. In the old days you would just setup your midi interface to send and receive these messages. Send from your DAW and receive in PT. And yes, you'll need to sync digitally with your clock. Personally I wouldn't use tempo and meter changes remotely. The second DAW is always chasing and doesn't do well if you have an audio file across the tempo or meter change.

Most people that use PT as a secondary daw use it almost exclusively like a mixdown deck. Recording stems and mixing in it. If you wanted to use a DAW to handle audio files Live does a much better job of dealing with tempo and meter changes through rewire.

Jose


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## JohnG (Dec 10, 2010)

The "secondary mixdown deck" is exactly the right analogy. The idea is to be able to record stems and hand a PT session to the engineer to mix / replace with live elements.

To do the live recording, however, one would need some means of getting the bars and beats into the PT session, even if after the fact. One can always use clix (which one can also record, naturally), to get the players a countoff, but for longer cues and pickups, bars and beats will be needed.

Still, just getting PT to follow the Digital Performer transport would be a nice step forward. Right now, it's just an extremely elaborate monitoring system!


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## gsilbers (Dec 10, 2010)

exactly. dont try to do tempo changes and all that. 
pt will be in "slip" mode and delivered that way. 
engineers dont care about tempo lock, but they do tempo info for their delays and such. so maybe a markers. 
or you can send the click track to PT and record it as an audio file. its easy in logic, dunno about DP.


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## JohnG (Dec 10, 2010)

So the engineer will be able to staple on the bar information after the fact? That would be great news for sure.

And yes it's very easy to send clix anywhere out of DP.


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## Synesthesia (Dec 10, 2010)

Well you can just run tools to MTC and not worry about the tempo map but then your music editor and/or scoring engineer will want to kill you the first time they are asked for a pickup!

And not to mention pickups into tempo changes..!

Bags of fun. 

The only way to do it properly is to make the midi map in Tools match the map in Logic/DP.

\unless I'm missing some magical shortcut of course!

Cheers,

Paul


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## JohnG (Dec 10, 2010)

this is what I'm a-skeert of. (that's Southern for "afraid")

It's a pretty big problem, sadly. If you have to save a midi tempo map to, say, a flash drive and bring it into PT, and then record stems, and then you make a change, you have to do it all over again.

But the question is whether that can be done at all?


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## JohnG (Dec 10, 2010)

this is what I'm a-skeert of. (that's Southern for "afraid")

It's a pretty big problem, sadly. If you have to save a midi tempo map to, say, a flash drive and bring it into PT, and then record stems, and then you make a change, you have to do it all over again.

But the question is whether that can be done at all?


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## Synesthesia (Dec 10, 2010)

John - 

Any audio would then presumably have to be relaid if you made structural changes.

Audio is default locked to tc in tools not to bar/beat, so you could just leave it until the last minute to import all your tempo maps..?

I generally leave tools in input until I'm ready to tracklay everything, and then usually manually recreate the tempo map. importing a tempo map seems fraught with uncertainty for some reason, it often never quite lines up.

Of course I do realise that saying that makes me sound like a complete luddite/flat earthist.

:D


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## stonzthro (Dec 10, 2010)

There was an article in one of Nick's magazine that went over this really well - may08 I think.


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## JohnG (Dec 10, 2010)

Synesthesia @ 10th December 2010 said:


> Of course I do realise that saying that makes me sound like a complete luddite/flat earthist.



Which naturally makes sense as a user of technology, day in, day out...

Thanks!



stonzthro @ 10th December 2010 said:


> There was an article in one of Nick's magazine that went over this really well - may08 I think.



Thank you, stonzthro. I will try to track it down.


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## bigdog (Dec 10, 2010)

Hi John

Yes there is way to do this. I used to work that way for years. It became so maddening that when PT 8 with useable midi came out I just went to PT8 and stopped using DP, which I had used for many years, and work now all in PT.

As I recall, it's as has been stated - DP sends out code, PT is set in slave. To get tempo/meter maps to match you have to save your DP file as a standard midi file (tempo/meter only I think) and then import that into PT. Definitely a hassle! But it works. Greg Townley knows how to do this as well - he is my engineer and we worked that way for a while. I don't know if he would remember how to do it.
I think I read somewhere that you work with him as well?

I found doing everything on two machines/platforms, while it had some advantages (mixing in PT is way more elegant to me) really was too much trouble. I so enjoy being on one machine for everything.


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## JohnG (Dec 10, 2010)

Hi bigdog -- good memory! you are right that I've done a lot of work with Greg Townley. A very practical and knowledgeable engineer, plus a jolly sense of humour. 

I'll check in with him. 

I'm somewhat tempted about PT, but it's not just the midi, it's the VI hosting. For those programs like Omnisphere, Stylus -- anything that depends significantly on tempo or delay-sync -- housing them inside the DAW is a must, from my perspective. I have read a concerning number of miserable posts about PT as a host (for samples more than Omni, now that I think of it). Having said that, of course if you go looking for problems on any platform, there is sure to be a legion of people who've had them and writing on forums. And some of them just are not patient enough to know what they are doing.

The workarounds exist so maybe...

Either way, like others, I've over 15 years' experience with my DAW (DP) and am not keen to chuck it. I'm going to have a bash at this.

Thank you!


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## bigdog (Dec 10, 2010)

sure!
I can confirm that for VIs. PT is not a winner. It can handle a few, so I put RMX and BFD and Trillian in there. Everything else is on slaves. I have also found that VE pro works pretty well also for off loading VIs. It does do tempo sync.

good luck with it. I can share more "under the hood" experience with doing everything in PT if you are ever interested.

Later

Danny P


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 10, 2010)

John, SMF is a Standard MIDI File.


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## bigdog (Dec 10, 2010)

anytime!
all of the DAWs seem to be getting pretty similar - I bet you'd find the learning curve less than you think. At least I did and I'm a pretty slow learner


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 10, 2010)

If that embarrasses you, John, you'd really hate being me.


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## gsilbers (Dec 11, 2010)

ok
here we go..

in pro tools you go to peripherals>syncronization

MTC reader port: ANY
MTC genrating port : select a midioverlan port. 

on MAchine control settings:

dont enable Midi machine control master.

DO enable Midi machine control slave ID 127

select "sync" on the transport bar so it blinks and waits for signal. 


in your DAW you send /transmit Midi machine control MMC through a specific midioverlan port. Pro tools will be set on any so any will do if u are not running anything else. 

and set your DAW to transmit AND listen to midi machine control. 

put your DAW into "sync" mode as well. 

now if you hit play in pro tools or in your DAW both programs will play. 

dont forget to select the same frame rate, 48k , etc.


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## JohnG (Dec 13, 2010)

you are a stylish guy, gsilbers.

Thanks


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## stevenson-again (Dec 20, 2010)

> I'm somewhat tempted about PT, but it's not just the midi, it's the VI hosting. For those programs like Omnisphere, Stylus -- anything that depends significantly on tempo or delay-sync -- housing them inside the DAW is a must, from my perspective. I have read a concerning number of miserable posts about PT as a host (for samples more than Omni, now that I think of it). Having said that, of course if you go looking for problems on any platform, there is sure to be a legion of people who've had them and writing on forums. And some of them just are not patient enough to know what they are doing.




actually john - just to add to the confusion - 

you can actually use MTC to sync your time dependent plugs in bidule. the same MTC you are sending to protools can be picked up by plogue and use a bidule to receive the midi and connect it to a device called 'midi clock to sync'.

you then open the plug and turn on 'sync' in the sync dialogue of plogues plug-in UI.

you could just as easily do this hosting your plug-ins on your PC. i have experimented with this and it is absolutely bang on. it picks up all your tempo changes and is accurate to 4 decimal places. one thing you do have to do though - is make sure you have worked out the latency between wherever plogue is and your DAW. i did this by ear - i had the click play as software inst in logic and a click in plogue and adjusted the delay until they matched.

it's pretty solid.


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## poseur (Dec 20, 2010)

JohnG @ Fri Dec 10 said:


> As far as bars and beats I do have to figure that one out, so that I can record overdubs at remote locations. But it may be that some kind of midi tempo map has to be imported by PT from DP.



yes.
midi-file needs be exported from original session into PT-session.

nothing to be a'scaart of, jg:
been doing this for years.

dt


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## JohnG (Dec 20, 2010)

thanks Rohan and poseur!

John


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