# Principles of Orchestration and Practical Handbook!!!



## Leandro Gardini (Feb 17, 2006)

I bought these books last year and started to study them some week ago...what I can say is that they?re great...I?ve never had such an experience with a book like these ones and in only some weeks my conception about orchestration has changed a lot!!!
Does anyone have them???I?d like to share some thoughts about???


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## fictionmusic (Feb 20, 2006)

*Re: Priciples of Orchestration and Pratical Handbook!!!*

Yah they're cool books (the Rimsky-Kosakov ones you mean right?)

I like them for the fact they talk about instrumental weights and look at things from a strictly Rimsky-Korsakov perspective. The only problem is finding the music for some of his examples.

The interesting thing about is that Stravinsky got his only real formal music training with him, presumably using similar materials. That bodes well.
Personally though I prefer other texts which offer a broader perspective of examples.


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## José Herring (Feb 20, 2006)

*Re: Priciples of Orchestration and Pratical Handbook!!!*

I had read several orchestration books. It wasn't until I read the Rimsky-Korsakov book that I really was getting what I was hearing in my head. That book is one of the few that if you read no other you'd be a great orchestrator anyway.


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## Leandro Gardini (Feb 20, 2006)

*Re: Priciples of Orchestration and Pratical Handbook!!!*

Jose and Fiction , I agree that Rimsky Korsakov book is great , but I meant the revised version by Peter Alexander...the original book cover a lot of subjects about orchestration but it never goes deeply...the one from Peter is only in his first volume that is total of 8 and has been already very helful for me...actually now that IÂ´m studing them I can browse some pages of an orchestral score and figure out in a much easyer way what is the orchestration layout!!!


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## José Herring (Feb 20, 2006)

*Re: Priciples of Orchestration and Pratical Handbook!!!*

The book that I got 10 or so years ago comes in two parts. The first part is just Rimsky talking about the simplicity of orchestration. Then he gets into a lot of detail with music examples in his second book.

Does the Alexander book go beyong that? If so, I might pick it up.

Jose


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## Leandro Gardini (Feb 20, 2006)

Peter has gone much further than Korsakov...theyÂ´re great books!!!

IÂ´ve just finished studing Practical Handbook...it teaches you how to transtale an piano score to orchestral one...now itÂ´s time to make the back exercices!!!


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## D.J. (Feb 24, 2006)

This may be asking alot,
but can someone please lay out exactly what the Alexander books are...
I'm not even sure how to ask this.....
I have been back and forth through their site and amazon as well. Many times.

One costs 20$ another is 75$, one claims to have a work book, but then it's never clear to me if the workbook is included with the item I'm currently viewing, even with the higher price, how this relates to the Rimsky original....(yes I read the pdf explaining Rimsky's original intentions and how there's lots of more contemporary examples and that all the right ppeople were consulted...) But what is the package?
The site offers volume 1 of 8....for 75$ !! where is vol 2, 3, 4 etc....
are they each 75$?? are these other volumes even written yet?!
And the book is called: 
Rimsky-Korsakov's Principles of Orchestration Vol. 1 of 8
By Peter Lawrence Alexander with an introduction by Emmy Winning Composer Bruce Broughton
Is it written by rimsky or alexander. If alexander then what is that book by rimsky?!
(The famous one that everyone is swearing by....the one writtne before we were all born)
what's the difference? I'm really confused, and would genuinely appreciate a complete answer. Especially now that you're telling me it's great.


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## Leandro Gardini (Feb 24, 2006)

D.J. @ Fri Feb 24 said:


> This may be asking alot,
> but can someone please lay out exactly what the Alexander books are...
> I'm not even sure how to ask this.....
> I have been back and forth through their site and amazon as well. Many times.
> ...


D.J. , the Principles book does not comes with the workbook , in order to get it you need to print the last page , fill in the form and send to the address...the Pratical handbook comes with workbook!!!
This price is only for the first volume...the second one as far as I know is being writen now and will be available this year...the name of the book stand the explanation - it was writen by Peter that revised the old Rimsky Korsakov with deeper explanations and new material!!!
I hope it helps!!!


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## D.J. (Feb 25, 2006)

Thanks leo.
So if I undestand this:
The Principles book= send in last page and get a workbook? for an additional charge?How much?
The Practical book = workbook included? 
Which one do you recommend? what are the prices of each?
(By the way, the book called Principles of Orchestration sold at amazon has a completely different table of contents from the one at True spec. Both have the same title.... so this is extremely frustrating to me and why I'm being so adamant about undertanding this)

The one written by Peter, is any of it written by Rimsky (any material from the 'original', or is this a copletely new book that is referring to Rimsky's way of orchestrating and Rimsky's way of writting about, and teaching orchestration ?

If these are two completely different books, is there any benefit to getting both the one written by Peter and the one written by Rimsky?

And leo, what did you get in Volume one? What is the table of contents?
If there are 8 volumes the obvious question is what is included and not included in volume one? Is it complete in some way or is it like taking one semester of medical school and then trying to practice medecine? (There has to be some logic to the pedagogy. what is the overall goal of volume one? example: volume one will give the student a complete overview of how all basic piano parts are written/ adapted for the string section)

I appreciate you taking the time to share this.


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## Leandro Gardini (Feb 25, 2006)

D.J. @ Sat Feb 25 said:


> Thanks leo.
> So if I undestand this:
> The Principles book= send in last page and get a workbook? for an additional charge?How much?
> The Practical book = workbook included?
> ...


D.J. , thereÂ´s no charge for the workbook , you only need to send the form...in pratical handbook the workbook is included!!!
I recommend both because theyÂ´re very diferent each other...one talks about orchestration itself , and the other one talks about how to transcribe a piano score to orchestral one!!!
The content that comes with volume 1 is the basic undestanding about each section and instrument of an orchestra , plus some concepts of orchestration (that I think will be covered deeper in the others coming volumes)...itÂ´s very detailed in the site!!!
I donÂ´t have any information about the other volumes , but IÂ´ve heard that volume 2 will cover mainly how to orchestrate a melody!!!
The old Rimsky Korsakov is the most popular orchestration book and will be always a "must have" for orchestral composers...you can find it with very cheap prices today!!!


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## D.J. (Feb 25, 2006)

Thanks for posting and sharing this Leo


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## Doug Wellington (Apr 6, 2006)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Apr 02 said:


> I'm not sure I understand your confusion, so here's hoping I can clear it up. First, the Alexander web site:
> http://www.alexuniv.com/music/orchestration/rimsky/
> 
> Now, How Rimksy Taught Orchestration'
> http://www.alexuniv.com/music/orchestration/rimsky/


Sorry, but I'm confused. Did you mean to list the same URL twice?



> There is ONE 875-page book, Volume 1 of eight that I revised. Volume 2 is shipping in a few weeks.


I posted on your forum, but it doesn't look like there's much action there, so I figured I'd ask here...

When do you plan to release the new Writing for Strings material? Will it go along with the second volume of the Rimsky revision?

Thanks...


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## Peter Alexander (Apr 7, 2006)

Hey, Doug. Some quick comments.

As for action on the Alexander forum, that forum is specifically setup for folks who either own specific books or courseware and have questions on the material. So that forum isn't like V.I., it's strictly there for materials support. The low response we have over there indicates to us that we've written the materials clearly enough that there are few questions. I check the forum every few days for questions.

Now, for your question, here's what I posted:

"Let me answer it this way. Rimsky VOL 1 is the only required text for all the courseware. Any of the other Rimsky volumes are advanced and will enhance and boost what you know. "

What's going on is that we're releasing roughly five (5) semesters of orchestration instruction. The core of that is the Revised Rimsky I book. With this as the core reference, the next groups of courseware will be much less expensive since all the critical material to move forward is covered in the second half of Strings I. 

Vol. 2 that I'm working on now is a revision of the Volume 2 I released 10 years ago, but this time, more expanded and covering material NOT covered in any present orchestration book used at the academic level. 

As for Writing For Strings II...

First, in the new two weeks we're posting the 4TH EDITION of Writing For Strings 1 and it's a FREE UPDATE. New look, new graphics, more of everything. Following that, we're releasing II along with a heavily revised WORKBOOK with all the keyboard examples recorded and MIDI files for all of them. 

I've been delayed on II because we're recording all the string examples as mock-ups since hiring an orchestra and recording them was not in the budget. I've held off because I wanted the new Vienna Instruments and to build a string sound from those. Having VOL II for the second level is a bonus for doing the advanced woodwinds and brass, but I'm only suggesting it, not "requiring" it. 

I had three examples sequenced for me using a recognized "player" and secondary string library. The fellow who did it for me did an excellent job, but the samples he had available made all three examples sound very synthy. That wasn't the sound I wanted.

Lots of other great stuff. I signed the contract yesterday to license a recording of a complete Ravel piece that's the basis of How Ravel Orchestrated.

Next week I sign the contracts to license recordings for the first Rimsky Revision, and later, I'll license for Volume II. 

As you can imagine, Caroline and I are becoming quite sleep deprived!

Peter


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## Doug Wellington (Apr 7, 2006)

Peter Alexander @ Fri Apr 07 said:


> As for action on the Alexander forum, that forum is specifically setup for folks who either own specific books or courseware and have questions on the material. So that forum isn't like V.I., it's strictly there for materials support. The low response we have over there indicates to us that we've written the materials clearly enough that there are few questions.


 :D ...everything I've worked on so far has been very clear. (I've got APH 101, 102, Rimsky 1, and Strings 1.) I saw the forum for Strings 2, so that's why I asked there...



> First, in the new two weeks we're posting the 4TH EDITION of Writing For Strings 1 and it's a FREE UPDATE. New look, new graphics, more of everything.


Very cool. I can't wait to see it!



> Following that, we're releasing II along with a heavily revised WORKBOOK with all the keyboard examples recorded and MIDI files for all of them.


Again, very cool! I just started the EIS course, and that has inspired me to get back and look at Writing for Strings again. The two courses seem to complement each other...



> As you can imagine, Caroline and I are becoming quite sleep deprived!


Sleep? I've heard of this concept... Tell me more...? :wink:


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## lutzek (Jun 30, 2019)

I apologize for writing in a long-forgotten thread, but this is related to the topic.

Do you know if there is a possibility of downloading audio for examples from volume2? For now during analysis of each piece of score I go to youtube, find the music track, then try to find the piece of music that is on the score example. This is quite time consuming (and by the way - being on the youtube and try to work is not a good idea). I found free examples on gutenberg.org, but it was probably recorded using cheap libraries, so not very good for educational purposes: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/33900/33900-h/music2/

Just judge for yourself. If someone finds it useful, you're welcome.


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## ed buller (Jun 30, 2019)

This might be useful

http://northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration

best

ed


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## Marcus Brody (Dec 16, 2019)

ed buller said:


> This might be useful
> 
> http://northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration
> 
> ...



Hi Ed,
this link is not working anymore... Do you know if the material can still be downloaded from somewhere else?
Thanks!


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## Maximvs (Dec 19, 2019)

Peter Alexander's books are a wonderful resource for people who desire to go deep intoorchestration and even composition. I have several of Peter's books and can highly recommend them.

Cheers, Max T.


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## crossrootsdoc (Dec 19, 2019)

Massimo said:


> Peter Alexander's books are a wonderful resource for people who desire to go deep intoorchestration and even composition. I have several of Peter's books and can highly recommend them.
> 
> Cheers, Max T.


Which ones would you recommend for someone who can read music fairly well but not interested in composing for live orchestra. Rather MIDI mockups


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## Maximvs (Dec 21, 2019)

crossrootsdoc said:


> Which ones would you recommend for someone who can read music fairly well but not interested in composing for live orchestra. Rather MIDI mockups


I am not aware of any specific book by Peter which specifically addresses MIDI mockups but I can tell you that all the books have plenty of reference to MIDI mockup. In oder words, what you learn is applicable to the real orchestra as well as the virtual orchestra. Although Peter's books have been written with the aim to teach solid orchestral and compositional principles for real instruments, he was a big supporters and user of virtual instruments and sample libraries.

Some good courses are the Visual Orchestration and Scoring Stages series that may suite you:

https://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Departments/Visual-Orchestration.aspx

I would also suggest writing to Peter's wife Caroline, who is also a composer and orchestrator, via the Alexander Publishing website for guidance in what book or course may be a good fit for you.






Alexander Creative Media - Music Training Titles for Composers, Songwriters, Orchestrators & Arrangers







www.alexanderpublishing.com





Kind regards,

Max T.


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## DaddyO (Dec 21, 2019)

+1 for Peter's Visual Orchestration video series, which he continued with Scoring Stages.


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## wst3 (Dec 21, 2019)

How serendipitous - Peter Alexander's books are quite good. All of them!

I am revisiting the first book I purchased from him, titled "Freshman Year" - and once again I am picking up lots of cool little tidbits.

This book is old - the first chapter tries to explain the differences between samplers, analog synthesizers, and digital synthesizers, and treats MIDI as a new fangled thing, which it probably was. So yeah, that chapter isn't much use. But the rest is pretty cool.

He has this gimick, for lack of a better term, called the Spectratone chart, which is a lot of fun, and you can come up with some very cool arrangement/orchestration ideas by using it.

Over the years I've purchased several courses from them, and I'm looking at the current sale, might be time to get some new lessons.

Peter's wife is doing a really good job of maintaining the business - I think that must be especially difficult having lost her husband.


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