# Sensors on Midi keyboard going - KK S88 worth the investment over the M-Audio Hammer 88 ?



## Paul Jelfs (Aug 20, 2021)

I know there are tons of threads talking about the perfect Midi keyboard controller (I also now know there is no such thing as the perfect Midi Keyboard controller!).

However, I have had a semi weighted Nektar GXP-88 for a couple of years, and although it has served me well, it seems the sensors on some keys are becoming dodgy. 

Therefore, It is probably a good time to final invest again in a weighted Midi Keyboard - As you will know, just about all options out there have their issues or quirks. I am tempted by the Komplete Kontrol S88 as I use a lot of native instrument software, however, it is still a lot of money when you can get the M-AUDIO Hammer 88 (NON Pro) for 1/3 of the price roughly. 

One thing I wish ALL midi keyboards had is a really in depth tool to shape the velocity response, as most are either too soft or too heavy, especially playing soft velocities consistent can be difficult on most Midi Keyboards. 

So two questions - Is the Komplete Kontrol S88 really worth nearly 3 times the price of the MAudio Hammer 88 (The lights and Komplete Kontrol would be nice, but not essential) and secondly, are their any 88 Key midi keyboards that have more control than just the usual 5-7 velocity curves ? It would be great if you could really program it down to the level you can on something like PianoTeq 7.

Not fussed about faders and buttons etc, though a Mod wheel is always handy, and is the reason I am not really considering the StudioLogic boards.


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## chimuelo (Aug 21, 2021)

Are you getting a permanent velocity of 127 like M Audio uses when contacts go bad?


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## theStyg (Aug 21, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Is the Komplete Kontrol S88 really worth nearly 3 times the price of the MAudio Hammer 88


I'm also considering these exact keyboards, but I'm definitely leaning towards the M-Audio. The extra KK S88 features are neat in theory, but they're effectively useless unless you use the Komplete Kontrol application in your workflow. I don't, and the effort to set it up doesn't seem worth it at a glance.

Additionally, the Hammer PRO also seems real nice, but for the extra money, you might be able to find adequate third-party units to serve as faders or drum pads, like those mini KORG pads/controllers.


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## Justin L. Franks (Aug 21, 2021)

You said you weren't considering the Studiologic controllers, but they do have more control over velocity curves than any other current 88-key controller as far as I know.

See pages 7-9 of the SL Editor software manual: https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/sl_keyboards/SL_Editor_quick_guide_EN.pdf


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## chimuelo (Aug 21, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> You said you weren't considering the Studiologic controllers, but they do have more control over velocity curves than any other current 88-key controller as far as I know.
> 
> See pages 7-9 of the SL Editor software manual: https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/sl_keyboards/SL_Editor_quick_guide_EN.pdf


Physis K4 has programmable Velocity Tables/curves and modifiers for each of its 8 zones. 

Unfortunately the K5 is the only one still in production. Built in sounds and graded hammer action will cost you though.

I use their Casio-ish full size key semi heavy action and even AfterTouch is programmable Per zone/sound.

Like them so much I have a spare and parts for a third.
They were 1800 @ Kraft back in 2014. Now you’re looking at 3200-4400 USD.
I bought 4 x M Audio KS88’s way back when and each one would lose a contact to a velocity of 127 after 1 1/2 years. I would turn it into a synth ‘ B3 controller until they just died all together after another year. But for 300 bucks each it was a deal at the time.

Below at e the KS88’s and then the Physis K4.


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## theStyg (Aug 21, 2021)

chimuelo said:


> Physis K4 has programmable Velocity Tables/curves and modifiers for each of its 8 zones.
> 
> Unfortunately the K5 is the only one still in production. Built in sounds and graded hammer action will cost you though.
> 
> ...


Not meaning to be cheeky, but this feels like a non-sequitur to the topic at hand lol... as per @Paul Jelfs post, just looking for wether the KK S88's $1,100 price tag is worth it for its additional features when compared to the $500 Hammer 88.


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## PaulieDC (Aug 22, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Is the Komplete Kontrol S88 really worth nearly 3 times the price of the MAudio Hammer 88.


Yes. It's all about velocity curve. I switched from a CODE61 to a StudioLogic SL88 Grand and never looked back, but the S88 was a consideration. The different is night and day. I'm not talking how to adjust it, I mean how well the keyboard plays the samples, makes all the difference.


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## shropshirelad (Aug 22, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I mean how well the keyboard plays the samples, makes all the difference.


I totally agree with this. I moved from a SL73 (same Fatar action as many other hammer action boards out there) to my Roland A88 MkII. Huge difference in weight, feel & playability. I'd considered the SL88 Grand but needed the lower profile top of the A88 to fit under a desk.


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## PaulieDC (Aug 22, 2021)

Almost bought the Roland A88 MkII but at 55" it was too long for my cramped space! But happy now with the SL88 Grand.

To the OP: S88 MKII, Roland A88 MkII and SL88 Grand are all in that same price range and we all love the ones we bought. It's worth the investment IMO.


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## Paul Jelfs (Aug 22, 2021)

chimuelo said:


> Are you getting a permanent velocity of 127 like M Audio uses when contacts go bad?


Actually no - Its certain keys not triggering at very low velocities - Just drops notes :(


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## Paul Jelfs (Aug 22, 2021)

Ahhhh now I am considering that Roland A88 MK2 - Even though I discounted it on principle of having an Unusable Mod wheel (Boing!) - It does look really nice though. 

Wish I could actually try some of these key actions, but that is not really an option :(


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## theStyg (Aug 22, 2021)

Say, is there some means of compensating for the Studiologic SL88's lack of modwheel/pitchbend? I tried looking for external USB modules for that but came up short, or found them a bit pricey to justify. The SL88 apparently uses a nearly identical keybed to the KK S88.


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## shropshirelad (Aug 22, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Ahhhh now I am considering that Roland A88 MK2 - Even though I discounted it on principle of having an Unusable Mod wheel (Boing!) - It does look really nice though.
> 
> Wish I could actually try some of these key actions, but that is not really an option


With a proper mod wheel, this keyboard would be perfect! I ignore it and now use an SL Mixface for cc duties. The pitch bend element of the stick thing is fine though.


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## Fidelity (Aug 22, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Actually no - Its certain keys not triggering at very low velocities - Just drops notes :(


Thought about taking it apart and cleaning the contacts? I bought a used Trinity with that problem and one wipe down later it's working again. Apparently there's also a trick with graphite on the contacts, though that worries me a bit.

Also, the KK is amazing. I have a 49 key MKII sitting on the second tier above it and the only thing I'd trade it for would be a zero key version (the Maschine MK3 isn't that - doesn't work with the KK software, apparently) or an 88 key. If you don't really care about not browsing patches through your PC or you have an issue with the many major caveats to KK (worth looking into, it isn't anywhere near what Kore used to be), though, def look elsewhere.


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## Justin L. Franks (Aug 22, 2021)

theStyg said:


> Say, is there some means of compensating for the Studiologic SL88's lack of modwheel/pitchbend? I tried looking for external USB modules for that but came up short, or found them a bit pricey to justify. The SL88 apparently uses a nearly identical keybed to the KK S88.


It doesn't have a traditional mod wheel, but the middle stick moves freely up and down (it is only spring loaded in the horizontal direction). So it can be used like a mod wheel. The left stick is spring-loaded in both directions, so you can use its vertical throw as a pitchbend too.

Although I think that a foot controller works better than a mod wheel for controlling dynamics. It leaves both hands free.


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