# Looking into either a MIDI Controller or a Digital Piano Setup



## mitchellcroft (Nov 15, 2021)

I am looking to get back into piano playing after a long time away from it. I want to do so with a view for both recreational playing and music production, and I've concluded digital hardware fits my goals the best, but I'm having a difficult time choosing.

To summarize my priorities: I want a digital piano/keyboard that feels like an acoustic one. I grew up playing an upright, and after playing it a bit again, I definitely value the feel of a real piano compared to the cheaper non-weighted keyboards I've played in the past. That being said, I also want something that can work in a digital environment, specifically with VSTs (which is why I was directed here). As far as production goes, I'm predominantly interested in composing soundtracks; music to fit the context of scenes in my personal projects.

Originally I was planning to buy something like a Kawai ES110 (or a Yamaha P125, or a Roland FP10) because based on my research, there is a strong emphasis on feeling like a real piano with a graded action. However I'm told they're not the best choice for a MIDI Controller, especially for my purposes (soundtrack) because they're lacking important controls like faders, modwheel & pitch bend. Because of this, I started looking more at 88-key MIDI Controllers, and the ones that looked right for me were the Arturia Mk2, the M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro and the Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2.

The Arturia Mk2 seems to have a lot going for it: plenty of useful controls like faders & pads, strong metal build quality, great software that comes packaged with heaps of VSTs and the best range of I/O ports available. However some reviewers don't like certain design choices, like the modwheel+pitchbend on the top left, the faders on the right hand side. I have no experience with MIDI controllers so I can't comment on these myself. Apparently the action is quite heavy too, and feels sluggish for some people (though I realize this is subjective).

The Hammer 88 Pro seems to have more traditional placement of controls, along with better-feeling pads, but non-existent on the software end compared to the other two options.

Komplete Kontrol S88 MK2 has the best software/VST support, coming with Komplete 12 Select. It also has a couple of cool screens which are apparently quite useful if youtube reviewers are to be believed. But it has the least controls of the three with no faders and no pads. I'm not overly keen on buying a separate Groovebox either.

I've also been told it's still perfectly viable to stick to buying an ES110 along with a separate lower-end MIDI Controller. I've been suggested an Oxygen Pro Mini, an i-Controls Portable 9-fader and other things. I'm open to this, but starting to have a problem with desk real estate so I wouldn't want anything too big.

Any input and recommendations are welcome.

Finally, as a complete beginner to digital production, I'm still trying to figure out whether it's worth having an audio interface and how useful it could be for my purposes. I have an Asrock Z370 Extreme4 Motherboard, which I think is meant to be pretty decent, at least for 2017; would that be good enough for a beginner like myself?






ASRock > Z370 Extreme4


Supports 8th Generation Intel Core™ Processors (Socket 1151); Digital PWM, 12 Power Phase; Supports DDR4 4333+(OC); 3 PCIe 3.0 x16, 3 PCIe 3.0 x1, 1 M.2 (Key E); NVIDIA Quad SLI™, AMD 3-Way CrossFireX™; Graphics Output Options : HDMI, DVI-D, D-Sub; 7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC1220 Audio Codec)...




www.asrock.com





Cheers.


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## cedricm (Nov 15, 2021)

An outstanding price/performance is theStudioLogic SL-88.
StudioLogic makes the keybeds of a lot of manufacturers. 
If money is no issue, the StudioLogic SL-88 Grand may be for you. 
Don't forget, the key is to use their free software to adjust the key action to taste. 
Also have a look at their brand new digital piano.


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## mitchellcroft (Nov 15, 2021)

cedricm said:


> An outstanding price/performance is theStudioLogic SL-88.
> StudioLogic makes the keybeds of a lot of manufacturers.
> If money is no issue, the StudioLogic SL-88 Grand may be for you.
> Don't forget, the key is to use their free software to adjust the key action to taste.
> Also have a look at their brand new digital piano.


I was looking at the SL-88 too. It seems a bit different from the other controllers though, like having a modulation stick instead of a wheel. The lack of faders is a shame, but it's definitely very affordable.

I also forgot to mention my budget is around $1500 AUD (roughly $1100 USD).


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## cedricm (Nov 15, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> I was looking at the SL-88 too. It seems a bit different from the other controllers though, like having a modulation stick instead of a wheel. The lack of faders is a shame, but it's definitely very affordable.
> 
> I also forgot to mention my budget is around $1500 AUD (roughly $1100 USD).


The SL Mixface fits perfectly on an SL-88 (admittedly, I don't have one).

You can get the SL-88 + Presonus Faderport 8 for less than most 88-keys keyboards with similar piano action.

Yes, you have to decide whether the sticks are a dealbreaker for you. Me, I've got no problem with them.

I also have a Kawai ES-110, the action is a little light, but the price is hard to beat. It's true that I don't really use it as a MIDI controller, although I could.

Ideally, you'd find shops where you could try the controllers/digital pianos, but I know I didn't find any such marvellous place.

PS: Looks like a StudioLogic SL88 Grand to me:


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## nathantboler (Nov 15, 2021)

Wouldn't overthink it. If weighted keys are important to you and you want it to be all-in-one, get the komplete kontrol s88.
Speaking from personal experience, you don't need faders or pads. Knobs work well. Can always expand/upgrade later if your workflow requires it.


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## nathantboler (Nov 15, 2021)

nathantboler said:


> Wouldn't overthink it. If weighted keys are important to you and you want it to be all-in-one, get the komplete kontrol s88.
> Speaking from personal experience, you don't need faders or pads. Knobs work well. Can always expand/upgrade later if your workflow requires it.


Oh yeah, and don't need an audio interface for awhile unless you plan to record acoustic instruments/live sounds.


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## SupremeFist (Nov 15, 2021)

Roland FP10 or similar all the way. Get a Korg Nanokontrol or a Mixface for some faders. Works out cheaper than a weighted action midi controller and you'll have a much better piano action.


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## mitchellcroft (Nov 15, 2021)

cedricm said:


> You can get the SL-88 + Presonus Faderport 8 for less than most 88-keys keyboards with similar piano action.


Not sure about that. The Faderport 8 alone costs more than the SL-88. Both of them together is about $1900 AUD ($1600 USD).


nathantboler said:


> *Wouldn't overthink it*. If weighted keys are important to you and you want it to be all-in-one, get the komplete kontrol s88.
> Speaking from personal experience, you don't need faders or pads. Knobs work well. Can always expand/upgrade later if your workflow requires it.


Considering the investment, I would at least like to ensure I'm somewhat future proof. I also don't want to add too much extra hardware to my workspace because it's already full of stuff not related to music.
As for faders and pads, I have been told that for soundtrack composition, faders are quite important, although pads I can do without (even though they can be handy).


nathantboler said:


> Oh yeah, and don't need an audio interface for awhile unless you plan to record acoustic instruments/live sounds.





SupremeFist said:


> Roland FP10 or similar all the way. Get a Korg Nanokontrol or a Mixface for some faders. Works out cheaper than a weighted action midi controller and you'll have a much better piano action.


Cheers for all the advice.


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## cedricm (Nov 15, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> Not sure about that. The Faderport 8 alone costs more than the SL-88. Both of them together is about $1900 AUD ($1600 USD).


OK.
Here in Europe, NI Komplete Kontrol S88 MK2 = €990
SL88 = €388 €
FaderPort 8 = €519
SL88 + Faderport = €907

But there are many other possibilities for faders, especially 3 or 4-fader devices, which are more compact. there was a thread recently.

Here's what Dan Keen of Spitfire uses (he has a video on his devices on YouTube)








nativeVS







nativevs.bigcartel.com




£175

@Pier found this: https://amc3midicontrollers.com/

@ExC3 is selling a controller with 3 faders: https://expressioncontroller.blogspot.com/2021/06/plug-and-play-usb-controller.html

A compact 3 60 mm Fader: https://nuancescontroller.fr/

An another one: https://ferdz.fr/index.php/mico-cinetic-en/

Search Fader in VIC and you'll find lots of recommendations. Some seem very happy with Faders bought on eBay
https://www.ebay.de/itm/USB-MIDI-Controller-1-Fader-1-Knob-programmable-CC-Channel-Range-DAW-control/224571959350





MIDI CC Fader Control


Hi all, I know there have been several threads about this already, but in browsing through them I haven't been able to get a clear answer. I use a Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk I which, as you likely know, only has pitch bend/mod strips and not a fader bank for CC data. What is your studio...




vi-control.net





Good luck, take your time, you'll keep the stuff for many years if it's of quality.
Cédric


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## mitchellcroft (Nov 16, 2021)

Separate question: for all the VSTs/instruments a hammer action piano isn't suited for (like say, guitar, organ, or soaring synth leads), what is generally a better choice for a MIDI keyboard: unweighted or semi-weighted? Is it entirely subjective? I would've expected semi-weighted to be objectively better, but I watched this guy's video:



He makes it clear he strongly prefers the smoother unweighted keybed, and says it feels more expressive.
Granted, I haven't done that much research on non-full weighted piano hardware.


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## cedricm (Nov 16, 2021)

It's really a question of taste. I positively abhor gummy-like noisy non-weighed keyboards.
Ideqlly find a shop where you can try one - should be much easier than for a quality 88-hammer keyboard, or perhaps you'll find a fellow musician that would let you try.

I should also mention that there are very few keyboards, to my knowledge, that are fully MIDI 2 compatible, although whether they can really distinguish 16k velocities I doubt it.

One of them is the Roland A88 mk2
https://www.roland.com/global/products/a-88mk2/
Another possibility is to go for a 49-key controller. If need be you can use a tablet or cheap pad for keyswitching, such as the Presonus Atom or the Novation Launchpad Mini.

Then in a few months, if you really want to play piano again and feel constrained by the size or feel of the controller, you can purchase a 88-key digital piano or controller.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

If you have space for it, I would go for Roland FP10 + some small MIDI unweighted-action keyboard with programmable buttons, knobs, pitchbend etc. More versatile than all-in-one solution, but less compact of course.

The PHA4 Standard action (found in Rolands FP10, FP30, FP60, A88 Mk II, RD88) is hard to beat for piano in under 2000$ category. It's a bit on a slow/heavy side compared to let's say Kawai ES8/MP7SE or Korg, but allows for easy dynamics control. Sends full 1-127 velocities range for notes on and notes off. And with FP10 you can get it really, really cheap.


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## mitchellcroft (Nov 16, 2021)

cedricm said:


> It's really a question of taste. I positively abhor gummy-like noisy non-weighed keyboards.
> Ideqlly find a shop where you can try one - should be much easier than for a quality 88-hammer keyboard, or perhaps you'll find a fellow musician that would let you try.
> 
> I should also mention that there are very few keyboards, to my knowledge, that are fully MIDI 2 compatible, although whether they can really distinguish 16k velocities I doubt it.
> ...


Thanks, I'll keep this in mind.



CeDur said:


> If you have space for it, I would go for Roland FP10 + some small MIDI unweighted-action keyboard with programmable buttons, knobs, pitchbend etc. More versatile than all-in-one solution, but less compact of course.


This is what I'm starting to lean toward now and why I've started looking at 32-49 key keyboards (49 mainly because of the faders). I still have to figure out whether I want unweighted/synth action or the more expensive semi-weighted with aftertouch.


CeDur said:


> The PHA4 Standard action (found in Rolands FP10, FP30, FP60, A88 Mk II, RD88) is hard to beat for piano in under 2000$ category. It's a bit on a slow/heavy side compared to let's say Kawai ES8/MP7SE or Korg, but allows for easy dynamics control. Sends full 1-127 velocities range for notes on and notes off. And with FP10 you can get it really, really cheap.


I heard the Roland's action is an acquired taste and not for everyone. ThePianoForever guy on youtube definitely doesn't like it, but this is obviously something I'll have to test for myself.

Isn't the FP10 missing line outputs too? Probably not super high priority for me, but would probably be nice down the line.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> I heard the Roland's action is an acquired taste and not for everyone. ThePianoForever guy on youtube definitely doesn't like it, but this is obviously something I'll have to test for myself.
> 
> Isn't the FP10 missing line outputs too? Probably not super high priority for me, but would probably be nice down the line.


ThePianoForever guy also likes P515 which many pianists consider to have unnaturally heavy action, but some people do like it. It's a highly subjective thing. The biggest flaw of PHA4 Standard is it's not the fastest action around and for example doing super-fast trills might be challanging for some.

FP10 and FP30 do not have line-outs. FP30X has. If you care for internal sounds and possibility to use it not only as a MIDI controller but also as a stage piano, check out RD88. Same action, much better sounds, pitch bender and modwheel, proper line-outs etc.


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## mitchellcroft (Nov 16, 2021)

CeDur said:


> ThePianoForever guy also likes P515 which many pianists consider to have unnaturally heavy action, but some people do like it. It's a highly subjective thing. The biggest flaw of PHA4 Standard is it's not the fastest action around and for example doing super-fast trills might be challanging for some.
> 
> FP10 and FP30 do not have line-outs. FP30X has. *If you care for internal sounds* and possibility to use it not only as a MIDI controller but also as a stage piano, check out RD88. Same action, much better sounds, pitch bender and modwheel, proper line-outs etc.


I was actually wondering about this; are internal sounds something to consider in the context of audio production? Like sending the on-board Roland sound directly to the computer? Or am I generally going to get the same/better results with a VST?
Is it a factor for live studio recording? Like if I had a microphone setup in my room? Not that I'm even remotely close to that.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> I was actually wondering about this; are internal sounds something to consider in the context of audio production? Like sending the on-board Roland sound directly to the computer? Or am I generally going to get the same/better results with a VST?
> Is it a factor for live studio recording? Like if I had a microphone setup in my room? Not that I'm even remotely close to that.


The only place where built-in sounds might matter is playing live gigs. It's more convenient than taking piano + laptop + audio (but I'm doing that when playing live ). In typical live environments you don't need super sophisticated deep-sampled sounds. 

For studio work or music production - virtual instruments all the way. The more instrument is exposed, the better sample you need. Much better value/money than investing in expensive digital pianos or workstations. And I've been there. I came close to reaching 10000$ spent on hardware digital pianos etc. in pursuit of 'the sound'. Then I came to my mind, sold everything, bought cheap but good FP10, old solid laptop as DAW-machine and lots of VIs. It's much much cheaper option and much better sound quality is achieved.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

P45 and P125 share the same GHS action. Are you sure that yours is not damaged? Or maybe velocity curve within piano is set to 'hard' or something like that? Many digital pianos won't reach ~120, but 80 is crazy, crazy low.


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## cedricm (Nov 16, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> Thanks, I'll keep this in mind.
> 
> 
> This is what I'm starting to lean toward now and why I've started looking at 32-49 key keyboards (49 mainly because of the faders). I still have to figure out whether I want unweighted/synth action or the more expensive semi-weighted with aftertouch.
> ...


32-keys I find ultra-limiting, but to each his own.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> Nope it's super well documented, I've since found to my dismay. Search Google for p45 velocity midi and you'll see. No settings change the max velocity, only the curve. Honestly don't know what Yamaha were thinking. I thought my piano vsts were all rubbish until I realised what was going on. Luckily reaper has midi scaling plugins. But it's not ideal.


I find Reaper MIDI scaling plugin quite limited for this specific use-case. You might want to try plugin I recommended in another thread: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/p-45-vs-fp-10-midi-implementation.94842/post-4964621 

It's called midiCurve and is done by developer named Insert Piz Here. Simple looking, simple to use tool with great functionality. You could just move the curve endpoint from 127 to 80, adjust the shape and enjoy the full range of your VI pianos.


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## mitchellcroft (Nov 16, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> You mentioned the p125. I have the p45, and don't recommend it. It plays fine, decent action for the money, but the midi output is terrible. Doesn't output full velocity range, only goes up to about 70 or 80. Can fix with velocity scaling in your daw, but really it's a total pain. Worth checking the p125 doesn't have the same issue. I'm saving up for a better controller.


Does this thread refer to what you're talking about?






Yamaha P45 velocity issues


Hello everyone, I am new here . I have been following alot of advices from this site, so I finally decided to join and become a member of this huge piano community. Thing is I have been dealing with a technical issue regarding the Yamaha P45 . And I am strongly hoping that this is the plac...




forum.pianoworld.com





(as a side note, the guy replying seems like a total a-hole)


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> (...) However, he has a point. Weighted keyboards you get what you pay for up to a point. P45/125 is really bottom rung stuff. (...)


Agree, but there are options where you get more bang for the buck. The previously discussed 500$ Roland FP10 has the same action that his $1200 brother FP60X. Of course sound engine, connections etc. is a different story. Kawai ES-110 or Korg D1 are also pretty decent controllers for cheap.



mitchellcroft said:


> (as a side note, the guy replying seems like a total a-hole)


I've been a PianoWorld member for over 7 years and like every forum with a long history it has grown some kind of a circle of mutual adoration. Some members like to respond in a bit of an arrogant way (which I personally don't mind and recommend just to ignore it) but I must admit it is not as friendly as VI-C is. Still you can find a lot of valuable info there.


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## veranad (Nov 16, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> I am looking to get back into piano playing after a long time away from it. I want to do so with a view for both recreational playing and music production, and I've concluded digital hardware fits my goals the best, but I'm having a difficult time choosing.
> 
> To summarize my priorities: I want a digital piano/keyboard that feels like an acoustic one. I grew up playing an upright, and after playing it a bit again, I definitely value the feel of a real piano compared to the cheaper non-weighted keyboards I've played in the past. That being said, I also want something that can work in a digital environment, specifically with VSTs (which is why I was directed here). As far as production goes, I'm predominantly interested in composing soundtracks; music to fit the context of scenes in my personal projects.
> 
> ...


I was in a similar position as you months ago. I played most of the candidates named here in a store and ended with a Korg D1 as master controller (excellent piano touch) and a second hand NI Kontrol S25 on the desk to edit the sounds and play drum parts.

To tell the truth, I actually bought a Roland FP10 earlier, but it went back due to a "clicky" noise it made.

Anyway I am very happy with this combination and can recommend it to you (no faders, though).


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## PaulieDC (Nov 16, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> Finally, as a complete beginner to digital production, *I'm still trying to figure out whether it's worth having an audio interface* and how useful it could be for my purposes. I have an Asrock Z370 Extreme4 Motherboard, which I think is meant to be pretty decent, at least for 2017; would that be good enough for a beginner like myself?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did want to address this question... we don't want you having an "oh GREAT" moment later. You need an audio interface as much as you need a monitor to see what you're doing. I'm sure some will jump on and say that they get by with built-in audio (mac or PC, doesn't matter), but you are talking about an 88-Key controller which means playing, even solo piano, with a LOT of voices. And you'll be playing samples, not synth modules which takes more CPU. That means your CPU needs some help, i.e., an audio interface AND the ASIO drivers that come with it (arguably the most important component). Your audio experience with built-in audio will not be great, you'll get crackling audio and bad latency (hit the key and hear a noticeable delay before the attack of the note hits). Do you have a DAW yet? If not, a great entry-level-but-totally-useful interface that comes bundled with a DAW is the PreSonus iOne. Has good drivers and comes bundled with Studio One Artist which is a great DAW version for starting out. Down the road PreSonus offers 50% discounts from time to time and you can upgrade to Pro for $149USD usually.

Here's the interface, FYI:


I would go so far to say that you should get this before even buying a keyboard controller because it's also essential for any playback.

You need to be careful on this forum, we love to spend money, ours or someone else's!


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

I disagree with @PaulieDC on that matter. A few things:

you can perform music without audio interface if you have MIDI keyboard, but not the other way around
using audio interface (external soundcard basically) vs built-in soundcard does not affect CPU and RAM performance when using virtual instruments; the only task of audio interface/soundcard is to perform digital to analog and analog to digital conversion; CPU will be responsible for taking care of processing the sample data
both current generation Windows and Mac native audio drivers allow to have low-latency experience with virtual instruments (if configured correctly)
the sound quality between built-in soundcard vs audio interface will be minimal and in most cases not audible
Of course if you can buy audio interface, do it. It's a great thing to have one, but if you're tight on budget, I think there it's not top priority (unless you plan to record vocals or real instruments with mics).


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## mitchellcroft (Nov 16, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I did want to address this question... we don't want you having an "oh GREAT" moment later. You need an audio interface as much as you need a monitor to see what you're doing. I'm sure some will jump on and say that they get by with built-in audio (mac or PC, doesn't matter), but you are talking about an 88-Key controller which means playing, even solo piano, with a LOT of voices. And you'll be playing samples, not synth modules which takes more CPU. That means your CPU needs some help, i.e., an audio interface AND the ASIO drivers that come with it (arguably the most important component). Your audio experience with built-in audio will not be great, you'll get crackling audio and bad latency (hit the key and hear a noticeable delay before the attack of the note hits). Do you have a DAW yet? If not, a great entry-level-but-totally-useful interface that comes bundled with a DAW is the PreSonus iOne. Has good drivers and comes bundled with Studio One Artist which is a great DAW version for starting out. Down the road PreSonus offers 50% discounts from time to time and you can upgrade to Pro for $149USD usually.
> 
> Here's the interface, FYI:
> 
> ...



The link doesn't work for me.
Considering I'm a complete beginner to digital production, would it really hurt to purchase a hardware instrument first just to see how things work? and if I find it unusable, then I could look at a proper interface.



CeDur said:


> I disagree with @PaulieDC on that matter. A few things:
> 
> you can perform music without audio interface if you have MIDI keyboard, but not the other way around
> using audio interface (external soundcard basically) vs built-in soundcard does not affect CPU and RAM performance when using virtual instruments; the only task of audio interface/soundcard is to perform digital to analog and analog to digital conversion; CPU will be responsible for taking care of processing the sample data
> ...


On a tangentially related note, one of the Digital Pianos I've been heavily considering starting out with is the Kawai ES110... but I just realized it has no USB port! Just MIDI-out and Line-out. Connecting it to my PC requires a strange MIDI to USB interface (more like a cable) with a 4.2 star rating on Amazon. Is this the kind of instance a proper audio interface like an iOne comes in handy? Or am I just stupid and missing something obvious?
[edit] I just realized my PC's motherboard has a line-in port. I assume this will work for audio production?


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## SupremeFist (Nov 16, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> On a tangentially related note, one of the Digital Pianos I've been heavily considering starting out with is the Kawai ES110... but I just realized it has no USB port! Just MIDI-out and Line-out. Connecting it to my PC requires a strange MIDI to USB interface (more like a cable) with a 4.2 star rating on Amazon. Is this the kind of instance a proper audio interface like an iOne comes in handy? Or am I just stupid and missing something obvious?


An audio interface won't help there unless it happens to have MIDI connections too (most basic ones don't). But you can connect a Roland FP10 directly to your computer over USB to control piano sample libraries. As long as that's all you're doing for the moment you probably don't need a separate audio interface unless your computer really sucks (since all an external interface will be doing is replacing the computer's built-in digital-to-analogue conversion before it comes out of your headphones or speakers).


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## mitchellcroft (Nov 16, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> An audio interface won't help there unless it happens to have MIDI connections too (most basic ones don't). But you can connect a Roland FP10 directly to your computer over USB to control piano sample libraries. As long as that's all you're doing for the moment you probably don't need a separate audio interface unless your computer really sucks (since all an external interface will be doing is replacing the computer's built-in digital-to-analogue conversion before it comes out of your headphones or speakers).


I'll take that into consideration when choosing a piano, but what if I happen to prefer the action of the ES110? How would I go about using that as a MIDI Controller? Can line-in somehow work? Or would I have to invest in a MIDI to USB converter? Would the latter even work optimally?


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## SupremeFist (Nov 16, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> I'll take that into consideration when choosing a piano, but what if I happen to prefer the action of the ES110? How would I go about using that as a MIDI Controller? Can line-in somehow work? Or would I have to invest in a MIDI to USB converter? Would the latter even work optimally?


In that case you'd have to get a USB-midi interface or an audio interface with midi ports. (Line-in is just for audio, not midi controller data.) Either would work just as well as a direct USB connection: this is the way things always used to be! Maybe one of those all-in-one converter cables would work too but I'd be wary of some cheap kludge.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

I'm surprised ES110 does not have USB to host. I've used MIDI to USB converter when playing Nord Electro 2. It was some cheap 10$ one. It worked.

Line-in won't work, because line-in is analog connection. It expects analog audio signal. MIDI and USB is digital connection, it operates on bytes.


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## mitchellcroft (Nov 16, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> In that case you'd have to get a USB-midi interface or an audio interface with midi ports. (Line-in is just for audio, not midi controller data.) Either would work just as well as a direct USB connection: this is the way things always used to be! Maybe one of those all-in-one converter cables would work too but I'd be wary of some cheap kludge.





CeDur said:


> I'm surprised ES110 does not have USB to host. I've used MIDI to USB converter when playing Nord Electro 2. It was some cheap 10$ one. It worked.
> 
> Line-in won't work, because line-in is analog connection. It expects analog audio signal. MIDI and USB is digital connection, it operates on bytes.


Yeah I feel stupid now. Something at the back of my mind was telling me that didn't sound right.
Cheers for the help though. It's nice to work out all this noob stuff before spending my money.


SupremeFist said:


> An audio interface won't help there unless it happens to have MIDI connections too* (most basic ones don't)*. But you can connect a Roland FP10 directly to your computer over USB to control piano sample libraries. As long as that's all you're doing for the moment you probably don't need a separate audio interface unless your computer really sucks (since all an external interface will be doing is replacing the computer's built-in digital-to-analogue conversion before it comes out of your headphones or speakers).


Assuming I ever did decide to buy an interface on the more affordable side (I probably won't) with MIDI i/o, is there anything to look out for? Like, I see this one has them:

`https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-U-24-Channel-Audio-Interface/dp/B01E5GGU7Q?qsid=130-5883266-2968132&sres=B01E5GGU7Q%2CB01E5GGT2W%2CB07S63K5N9%2CB081781PLQ%2CB07GBY2M8V%2CB07KC9C2XQ%2CB086653VSH%2CB08CY8GB15%2CB08T9ZS495%2CB01J3S91WW%2CB0864QKWTG%2CB01N5ODGUK%2CB07WRDLNQZ%2CB08CLSXJSW%2CB07QR73T66%2CB08JCYYQFC%2CB07N3FDT3M%2CB07CKHHWHC%2CB087QRW81Z%2CB08VWPM5N9`


But it's a strange looking one, much different from the other interfaces.


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## PaulieDC (Nov 16, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> Yeah I feel stupid now. Something at the back of my mind was telling me that didn't sound right.
> Cheers for the help though. It's nice to work out all this noob stuff before spending my money.
> 
> Assuming I ever did decide to buy an interface on the more affordable side (I probably won't) with MIDI i/o, is there anything to look out for? Like, I see this one has them:
> ...



Don't feel stupid, at all... there's a LOT of moving parts to this and it's very easy to go in the wrong direction and spend money on something that you discover later was a mistake. However, if you are eventually going to record, you need an audio interface, no option. Having one with MIDI ports also solves the issue if you end up with a keyboard that doesn't have USB.

To that thought, I have a solution to put the whole thing to rest, and allow you to concentrate on getting the right keyboard. I sent you a DM (direct message). Look for the Envelope icon at the top of the page.


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## SupremeFist (Nov 16, 2021)

mitchellcroft said:


> Yeah I feel stupid now. Something at the back of my mind was telling me that didn't sound right.
> Cheers for the help though. It's nice to work out all this noob stuff before spending my money.
> 
> Assuming I ever did decide to buy an interface on the more affordable side (I probably won't) with MIDI i/o, is there anything to look out for? Like, I see this one has them:
> ...



Zoom stuff is generally pretty good for the intended use case: this one seems designed to be super portable above all, so for home studio use I'd probably lean towards a desktop audio interface that also has midi from a reliable maker, like a UA Volt or SSL 2+.


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## PaulieDC (Nov 16, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Zoom stuff is generally pretty good for the intended use case: this one seems designed to be super portable above all, so for home studio use I'd probably lean towards a desktop audio interface that also has midi from a reliable maker, like a UA Volt or SSL 2+.


Actually, the OP is fine, he won't need to purchase an interface. Let's help him decide on that keyboard he needs.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

Motu M4 also have MIDI I/O. If you ever find one available. I wouldn't make it the deciding factor though. Classical MIDI connections are becoming a relict of the past and even if you end up with ES110, the midi->usb converter cable will do fine.

And regarding 'feeling noob': no reason to feel that way. How are you suppose to know something if you've never done it? To ask, is a wise thing.


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## mitchellcroft (Nov 22, 2021)

How big of a difference does a triple sensor make compared to a double sensor when it comes to MIDI input?


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## mitchellcroft (Dec 9, 2021)

Ended up choosing the Yamaha P125. Hopefully I don't get the velocity issue.

After sampling the Kawai ES110, I realized the issue with the loud, springy sound on release is very real. I could hear the bonking even with headphones on, which is ridiculous. Hopefully they release the ES120 soon with a fixed RHC action like the KDP75. They had an MP7SE on display too and it had the same problem, albeit to a lesser degree.

Was tempted to get the Korg D1. I liked its action the best but it's more expensive than the other two while having less polyphony (120 notes) and the worst ratings on Amazon & Sweetwater.

No stock for the FP10 or FP30X so didn't get to try them. For some reason Roland pianos are in very high demand.

The best feeling action from the pianos I sampled was the Nord, which from what I understand, is just the Kawai action with the spring issue fixed. It felt so clean and responsive; sadly out of my price range though.

End blog. Thanks for the help everyone, and an extra special thanks to PaulieDC.


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