# STOCK music placed in the new OFFICIAL "Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug" Trailer



## Greg (Nov 5, 2013)

Official trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfflhfn1W-o

Cue:
http://www.shockwave-sound.com/track_search.php?track=spirit%20of%20light (http://www.shockwave-sound.com/track_se ... of%20light)

Draw your own conclusions


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## RasmusFors (Nov 5, 2013)

The new Hobbit trailer felt very lazy to me. Just a few randomly cut togethter action clips with some cheap stock music.

Previous trailer was good though  [/quote]


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## sluggo (Nov 5, 2013)

I conclude that the producers (and marketing team) couldn't give a rat's dicktip about original music for a blockbuster movie trailer.

It's not bad though. But hopefully more and more studios will see the power of a kick-ass trailer with original music a la Man of Steel etc.


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## germancomponist (Nov 5, 2013)

RasmusFors @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> The new Hobbit trailer felt very lazy to me. Just a few randomly cut togethter action clips with some cheap stock music.
> 
> Previous trailer was good though



Was not it only a matter of time? 

And what do you think is the reason why they think some stock music should be enough?

Let's see what comes next.


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## germancomponist (Nov 5, 2013)

sluggo @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> But hopefully more and more studios will see the power of a kick-ass trailer with original music a la Man of Steel etc.



Hopefully!


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## Greg (Nov 5, 2013)

sluggo @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> I conclude that the producers (and marketing team) couldn't give a rat's dicktip about original music for a blockbuster movie trailer.
> 
> It's not bad though. But hopefully more and more studios will see the power of a kick-ass trailer with original music a la Man of Steel etc.



This piece of garbage is their best attempt at ripping off the Man of Steel trailer campaigns:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK2zYHWDZKo


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## RasmusFors (Nov 5, 2013)

Actually I don't think this is an official trailer. The clip was firstly uploaded on Jacksons own channel, labeled as a "sneek peak". I guess that makes it more of an "internet clip"
rather than an actual trailer. I don't think this was meant as a promotion to the general audience, more of a sneek peak for the fans. (And if that's the case, I forgive them for beeing lazy)


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## Greg (Nov 5, 2013)

RasmusFors @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Actually I don't think this is an official trailer. The clip was firstly uploaded on Jacksons own channel, labeled as a "sneek peak". I guess that makes it more of an "internet clip"
> rather than an actual trailer. I don't think this was meant as a promotion to the general audience, more of a sneek peak for the fans. (And if that's the case, I forgive them for beeing lazy)



I think you're right, it must be an internet only trailer more or less. It might still play in theatre and tv though, who knows.


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## Daryl (Nov 5, 2013)

Hang on a minute. When a track from 2 Steps From Hell was used for a trailer (Star Trek, if memory serves) there was no outcry about stock music. Is the complaint that it is stock music, or that it is not very good?

Disclaimer: I haven't listened to it, so I have no opinion.

D


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## Christof (Nov 5, 2013)

I just saw the trailer.
What is so wrong about the music?
For me it works, it's just a trailer anyway.
Where ist the real problem?


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## mark812 (Nov 5, 2013)

Greg @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> sluggo @ Tue Nov 05 said:
> 
> 
> > I conclude that the producers (and marketing team) couldn't give a rat's dicktip about original music for a blockbuster movie trailer.
> ...



_Adagio in D minor_ and _Requiem for a Dream_ are 2 of the most overused cues in trailers.


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## germancomponist (Nov 5, 2013)

Daryl @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Hang on a minute. When a track from 2 Steps From Hell was used for a trailer (Star Trek, if memory serves) there was no outcry about stock music. Is the complaint that it is stock music, or that it is not very good?
> 
> Disclaimer: I haven't listened to it, so I have no opinion.
> 
> D



Because this music is so very very cheap.... .


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## Lex (Nov 5, 2013)

The problem is that it costed WB/NewLineCinema 50$ to license it.

alex


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## sluggo (Nov 5, 2013)

Daryl @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Hang on a minute. When a track from 2 Steps From Hell was used for a trailer (Star Trek, if memory serves) there was no outcry about stock music. Is the complaint that it is stock music, or that it is not very good?
> 
> Disclaimer: I haven't listened to it, so I have no opinion.
> 
> D



I recall seeing a video where Nick Phoenix was working with an orchestra on original music for a Star Trek trailer. But maybe there were other trailers that used 2 Steps music.

I don't think anyone here is slamming the music used in this trailer. It's just that we are seeing a little bit of positive momentum in the area of original music for trailers and this trailer feels very 'old hat' in it's approach towards music.

We are the only people talking about this so let's not expect any real quick significant changes shall we? Let's just keep plugging away and slowly it'll come around.


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## Christof (Nov 5, 2013)

So cheap?
It works or not?


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## rpaillot (Nov 5, 2013)

It was inevitable that this happens. As the quality is increasing on stock royalty free music website, why clients would ask for original music or license track from trailer music library for thousand dollars if they can have close to the same quality on Audiojungle for 30 dollars ? :D


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## RiffWraith (Nov 5, 2013)

Daryl @ Wed Nov 06 said:


> Hang on a minute. When a track from 2 Steps From Hell was used for a trailer (Star Trek, if memory serves) there was no outcry about stock music. Is the complaint that it is stock music, or that it is not very good?



If you are referring to "Freedom Fighters" (Star Trek) - that was written by TSFH specifically for that trailer. Far from stock music.

Cheers.


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## germancomponist (Nov 5, 2013)

rpaillot @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> It was inevitable that this happens. As the quality is increasing on stock royalty free music website, why clients would ask for original music or license track from trailer music library for thousand dollars if they can have close to the same quality on Audiojungle for 30 dollars ? :D



And now we're back to the issue of money. Money/Money Saving destroys all values​​!


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## Lex (Nov 5, 2013)

rpaillot @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> It was inevitable that this happens. As the quality is increasing on stock royalty free music website, why clients would ask for original music or license track from trailer music library for thousand dollars if they can have close to the same quality on Audiojungle for 30 dollars ? :D



Very true...but it's good in a way, it will help to going back to stock music being stock music and dedicated trailer music library being a dedicated trailer library. It's circular and connected to advancements in music technology, it's not the first time this happens.

alex


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## Daryl (Nov 5, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Daryl @ Wed Nov 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Hang on a minute. When a track from 2 Steps From Hell was used for a trailer (Star Trek, if memory serves) there was no outcry about stock music. Is the complaint that it is stock music, or that it is not very good?
> ...


Ah, I see.

D


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## Christof (Nov 5, 2013)

Would you call the music cheap if it would be a 10.000 $ production?Would you hear the difference?
I don't think so.


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## Lex (Nov 5, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Daryl @ Wed Nov 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Hang on a minute. When a track from 2 Steps From Hell was used for a trailer (Star Trek, if memory serves) there was no outcry about stock music. Is the complaint that it is stock music, or that it is not very good?
> ...



It wasn't actually. It was a custom version of an existing track, but yeah calling anything TJ does stock music is just weird...

alex


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## Daryl (Nov 5, 2013)

Christof @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Would you call the music cheap if it would be a 10.000 $ production?Would you hear the difference?
> I don't think so.


It seems that the main complaint is that it was cheap to licence (assuming that it was). Some stock music companies specifically exclude movie trailer because there is no money to be made from Royalties, so I wouldn't assume anything, unless I knew for sure what the situation was.

A question for those people who think that the use of this music was wrong; would you say the same if it was licensed at a cost of $80,000, for example?

D


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## germancomponist (Nov 5, 2013)

Christof @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Would you call the music cheap if it would be a 10.000 $ production?Would you hear the difference?
> I don't think so.



Misunderstanding: I mean this music was cheap to get, only some dollars.... .


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## Lex (Nov 5, 2013)

Daryl @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> A question for those people who think that the use of this music was wrong; would you say the same if it was licensed at a cost of $80,000, for example?
> 
> D



Of course not, they should use what ever they like, but if this was licensed for 50$ (which I think it WASN'T as I get more and more info) it's the same as if bunch of video game composers started charging 10$ per minute of decent quality finished music. 

alex


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## germancomponist (Nov 5, 2013)

Daryl @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> A question for those people who think that the use of this music was wrong; would you say the same if it was licensed at a cost of $80,000, for example?
> 
> D



Daryl, this is not the point. 

Think about if all trailer houses would only use so cheap to licence music? A disaster!


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## Christof (Nov 5, 2013)

ahhh okay, cheap in terms of money!


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## RasmusFors (Nov 5, 2013)

The song is basicly a few Symphobia multis with some royality free cinematic trailer effects. I guess there are nothing wrong with that for the general movie going audience, but for someone with insight into composing it sounds quite lazy.


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## Greg (Nov 5, 2013)

RasmusFors @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> The song is basicly a few Symphobia multis with some royality free cinematic trailer effects. I guess there are nothing wrong with that for the general movie going audience, but for someone with insight into composing it sounds quite lazy.



+ Action Strings


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## RiffWraith (Nov 5, 2013)

I just listened to the track off of the shockwave site. I hate to say it, but that track - as typical as it is - sounds a hell of a lot better in terms of composition AND sound quality than a lot of these newer trailer tracks that have appeared in the past couple of years, by some of these IM/TSFH wanna-bes. It sounds BIG and FULL and EPIC. It is well written and orchestrated, and definitely fits the bill of *Epic Orchestral Trailer Track.* The problem I have is why something like this is being given away for virtually nothing....


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## germancomponist (Nov 5, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> I just listened to the track off of the shockwave site. I hate to say it, but that track - as typical as it is - sounds a hell of a lot better in terms of composition AND sound quality than a lot of these newer trailer tracks that have appeared in the past couple of years, by some of these IM/TSFH wanna-bes. It sounds BIG and FULL and EPIC. It is well written and orchestrated, and definitely fits the bill of *Epic Orchestral Trailer Track.* The problem I have is why something like this is being given away for virtually nothing....



Huh, I thought nearly the same when I listened to the track, but I didn't want to start this theme again. There are people who hate me because I did it in the past.... . o/~


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## PMortise (Nov 5, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> I just listened to the track off of the shockwave site. I hate to say it, but that track - as typical as it is - sounds a hell of a lot better in terms of composition AND sound quality than a lot of these newer trailer tracks that have appeared in the past couple of years, by some of these IM/TSFH wanna-bes. It sounds BIG and FULL and EPIC. It is well written and orchestrated, and definitely fits the bill of *Epic Orchestral Trailer Track.* The problem I have is why something like this is being given away for virtually nothing....


+1

The thing is this trailer is already preaching to the choir. It doesn't make financial sense to pay more than you have to to "sell" something that's already sold.


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## RiffWraith (Nov 5, 2013)

germancomponist @ Wed Nov 06 said:


> There are people who hate me because I did it in the past.... . o/~



Well, I hate you, but for other reasons.

I KID, I KID!!!!!  :lol:


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## RiffWraith (Nov 5, 2013)

PMortise @ Wed Nov 06 said:


> It doesn't make financial sense to pay more than you have to to "sell" something that's already sold.



I know. But it's still a travesty why this person is practically giving away this track, when in reality it should go (non-exclusively) for thousands, if not tens of thousands (depending on term, territory and media).


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## PMortise (Nov 5, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> I know. But it's still a travesty why this person is practically giving away this track, when in reality it should go (non-exclusively) for thousands, if not tens of thousands (depending on term, territory and media).


Agreed, though if they went the $0.00 route and used music from the franchise then the composer wouldn't even get the exposure. I hope for the composer that the opportunity will eventually balance things a bit.


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## Daryl (Nov 5, 2013)

germancomponist @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Daryl @ Tue Nov 05 said:
> 
> 
> > A question for those people who think that the use of this music was wrong; would you say the same if it was licensed at a cost of $80,000, for example?
> ...


Well firstly you have to define cheap. The you have to say who,m it is a disaster for. Not the people who have their tracks licenced, I would imagine. :wink: 

D


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## TuomasP (Nov 5, 2013)

Umm, it's still Dynamedion (they have pretty convincing team http://www.dynamedion.com/team/) even though they license music through some stock sites too.
http://www.dynamedion.com/news/index.html#hobbit


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## ryanstrong (Nov 5, 2013)

TuomasP @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> Umm, it's still Dynamedion (they have pretty convincing team http://www.dynamedion.com/team/) even though they license music through some stock sites too.
> http://www.dynamedion.com/news/index.html#hobbit



So basically Dynamedion was hired to produce the music for the trailer and they went and purchased stock music from a stock site (as indicated in the first post) while adding in some original material?


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## AC986 (Nov 5, 2013)

The question is not really about the music here right? The music or the sound design used in this trailer is more or less irrelevant presumably.

The time is drawing very near where bespoke music is no longer the norm. In fact, I don't think it is the norm now is it? Most tv stuff is stock music nowadays. All trailer music is more or less homogenous so in the end what do expect is going to happen?


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## TuomasP (Nov 5, 2013)

ryanstrong @ Wed Nov 06 said:


> TuomasP @ Tue Nov 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Umm, it's still Dynamedion (they have pretty convincing team http://www.dynamedion.com/team/) even though they license music through some stock sites too.
> ...



That's interesting interpretation :D. 

If you check that link from Shockwave-Sound in the opening post, track is under name of Pierre Gerwig Langer who is Managing Director of Dynamedion... and in the Dynamedion news it states Tilman Sillescu, creative director created that track so it's their track and even though it appears on non-exclusive stocksite, who knows how did the licensing happen :D 
it's all dat speculation....


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## ryanstrong (Nov 5, 2013)

TuomasP @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> ryanstrong @ Wed Nov 06 said:
> 
> 
> > TuomasP @ Tue Nov 05 said:
> ...



I see that now, good observation. So they basically had a track that they casted out to a stock site to see if anyone would bite, got the Hobbit gig and just used it for that. Sounds like they are just being resourceful with their product.


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## Greg (Nov 5, 2013)

The joke is on Warner Bros if they went through a different publisher.

They could have bought the license from the stock site for the lump sum of....

TV/Radio Advertising Commercial ($335.65)
Allows use of the Track in a nationally broadcast TV and/or Radio commercial (one country), and/or in-theater advertising (screening preroll), for one year from the first screening date. Under this license you may also use the commercial spot on the internet, in perpetuity.


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## Alastair (Nov 5, 2013)

On the positive side, at least it doesn't have the irritating sub bass drops that have featured in pretty much every trailer cue for the past year or so.


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## woodsdenis (Nov 5, 2013)

Lex @ Tue Nov 05 said:


> The problem is that it costed WB/NewLineCinema 50$ to license it.
> 
> alex



And how do you know this ? The cue may well be in many non exclusive libraries or licensed directly from the composer.


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## germancomponist (Nov 6, 2013)

Funny. Think about you are Warner Bros. 

You did a deal with Dynamedion and have payed a lot of money for licencing and now you find out that you could get it for only $ 335 if you licenced it at Shockwave-Sound-Com.

So, enough speculation. My work Calls.


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## ryanstrong (Nov 6, 2013)

germancomponist @ Wed Nov 06 said:


> Funny. Think about you are Warner Bros.
> 
> You did a deal with Dynamedion and have payed a lot of money for licencing and now you find out that you could get it for only $ 335 if you licenced it at Shockwave-Sound-Com.
> 
> So, enough speculation. My work Calls.



Thankfully WB doesn't have the time nor the taste to do such a thing.


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## Pierre (Nov 8, 2013)

Hi guys,

just reading through this post I think it might be a good idea to tell the true story 

You are right - this composition, in an older version, is with Shockwave and some more stock music sites. And indeed it could have been licensed for quite cheap - a few hundred $ for any type of usage. However it was different in this case, because the sneak peak trailer uses a brand new, different version which we adjusted as a custom work, changing the arrangement, doing additional choir recordings and some more things which I cannot yet talk too much about 

Tilman is the writer of the track - no worries. I would not be able to produce anything like that - especially since I stopped writing a few years back  However Tilman and I always share rights on everything we do, and I am the one for the low price stock music sites . Actually in the meantime we have stopped to write music for libraries except for our own library - which is high price and for sure custom price for really huge placements. 

Oh and btw: this is only the online trailer / sneak peak, so the sync fee was reasonable and not at all through the roof.

Cheers,

Pierre


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## korgscrew (Nov 8, 2013)

Am I one of the few who doesnt see a problem with this?

I would be extactic if one of my stock bits got used on a trailer! Its part and parcel of that kind of industry. 

You choose to put the music on there, and there are no rule who uses it, as long as they pay


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## dgburns (Nov 8, 2013)

Pierre @ Fri Nov 08 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> just reading through this post I think it might be a good idea to tell the true story
> 
> ...



First off,hello Pierre!

secondly,his response here should close off this discussion right? I mean you heard it from the first party source,so we should move on now.

Keep in mind gents that once a track gets used in anything high profile,or highly saturated in rotation,the track gets glued to that campaign,and is imho rendered unsellable to others.The whole point is the association of the track with the ad campaign.Once that happens,the track as is won't likely be used by anyone else because of the association with the ad campaign it is tied to.So whether it is bespoke or not,stock music does indeed have s shelf life.I wouldn't be too concerned about stock completely replacing bespoke,as the ad buys far outstrip the cost of acquiring the music rights used.Add to that,the value added by updating or re-imagining an existing cue is a healthy process,where the clients can be involved in the new aspects of the track.Which,btw,once they sign on and are onboard with any track,makes the whole ad campaign easier for everyone.
The big if to all this is the fee structure needs to be fair,so that we all can make a living.
my two cents


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## Cruciform (Nov 8, 2013)

dgburns @ Sat Nov 09 said:


> Keep in mind gents that once a track gets used in anything high profile,or highly saturated in rotation,the track gets glued to that campaign,and is imho rendered unsellable to others.The whole point is the association of the track with the ad campaign.Once that happens,the track as is won't likely be used by anyone else because of the association with the ad campaign it is tied to.



What? There are library cues that get used over and over again in different campaigns because they work and/or because they're what the studios want.


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 8, 2013)

Pierre @ Fri Nov 08 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> just reading through this post I think it might be a good idea to tell the true story
> 
> ...



Great to hear the full first-hand story. Not so different to the famous Two Steps / Star Trek campaign of a few years ago, where they recorded a custom version of a library track.

Congrats!


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## José Herring (Nov 8, 2013)

I think that most people are probably complaining about it because quite frankly, it worked.


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## chimuelo (Nov 9, 2013)

It's always about the money when it comes to trailers, even when they say it isn't.

FWIW most young people I go to movies with like my kid and his friends, seem to use the cheapest working solutions.

One silly movie called "This Is The End" where Rhianna fell in a big earthqualke fissure in Hollywood, and Channing Tatum was dressed up like an S & M Dog was really sick, and had barely any music at all in it.

Seemed to be another profitable skit for James Franco and Seth Rogan.
People loved it, I thought it was foul, but still fun to be w/ kids seeing what they like.


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## dpasdernick (Nov 11, 2013)

tekkentool @ Sat Nov 09 said:


> chimuelo @ Sun Nov 10 said:
> 
> 
> > One silly movie called "This Is The End" where Rhianna fell in a big earthqualke fissure in Hollywood, and Channing Tatum was dressed up like an S & M Dog was really sick, and had barely any music at all in it.
> ...



+1000. This is the End was a complete train wreck. A group of semi-talented actors (except James Franco, he sucks completely IMO) thinking they can turn the camera on themselves and create something great. It saddens me to think this could even get approval to be made but this is what Hollywood seems to be about these days. I find it harder and harder to find anything decent to watch these days. I watched a foreign film called The Wall. it had one lady, a cow, a dog, and a few cats and it held my attention more so than "This is the end" If this is how Hollywood is going to be moving forward then yes indeed "This is the End"

2 cents...


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## rJames (Nov 11, 2013)

dgburns @ Fri Nov 08 said:


> Pierre @ Fri Nov 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys,
> ...


While the track does get glued to the campaign (depending on the contract 99% are tied) the cue can be used in any other advertising that the publisher wishes. An exclusive can be purchased by the studio for xtra $$$. A high profile cue in the theatrical may very well be exclusive cause the studio does not want it in a milk commercial next week.


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## CircuitalPlacidity (Nov 16, 2013)

I don't know about the trailer situation but I know a guy who's orchestrating for this film and he is amazing. The full score should be stunning.


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