# Seventh Heaven Professional now supports 7.1.6 and ducking.



## DJiLAND (Apr 20, 2022)

I received an update email from LiquidSonics today for Seventh Heaven Professional.
It now supports up to 7.1.6 channels and Ducking!
Looking at their progress, I thought it would come, but I didn't expect it to be a free update to Professional.
I thought it was the release of the Surround version.😅
And the addition of ducking function!
I really like Seventh Heaven and this is a really great gift.
I have all the plugins from LiquidSonics and Reverb Foundry except Illusion and Reverberate, and Seventh Heaven is my second favorite and use a lot after the M7 Link!
Lately I've been mostly CRP because I work mostly with surround, but now it's time to go back to 7HP.
I was contemplating whether to buy more of the M7 for immersive sound, and now I'm debating whether to sell my M7.😆


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## KEM (Apr 20, 2022)

So basically there’s no reason to get Cinematic Rooms now then?


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## Zanshin (Apr 20, 2022)

KEM said:


> So basically there’s no reason to get Cinematic Rooms now then?


They are pretty different reverbs. SH Pro getting a couple of new features doesn't negate the beauty that CR Pro is. The correct thing is to own all of Liquidsonics reverbs (and RF too).


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## vitocorleone123 (Apr 21, 2022)

KEM said:


> So basically there’s no reason to get Cinematic Rooms now then?





Zanshin said:


> They are pretty different reverbs. SH Pro getting a couple of new features doesn't negate the beauty that CR Pro is. The correct thing is to own all of Liquidsonics reverbs (and RF too).


For me, I much, much, MUCH prefer CRP.

I've only tried Seventh Heaven Pro as long as possible, but don't own it. I think the ducking will mean it's worth trying again, because my ears always heard it as coloring the original sound too much to bother owning a license for. Again, I only claim that for my ears, not as a universal truth or anything!


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## Zanshin (Apr 21, 2022)

I've really never liked SH on orchestral stuff that much, I feel like it's for more suitable for guitars, etc. I really haven't used it much since Tai Chi and Lustrous Plates Surround came out (using these along with CRP). I am a Liquidsonics devotee though so happy for any updates etc


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## Henu (Apr 21, 2022)

You peeps nailed my feelings as well. I use Lexicon and CRP almost exclusively for orchestral stuff and find 7H a bit...lackluster compared to those. It's just very anonymous-sounding at least for the stuff I usually do. It's really good, but not really working for me in orchestral/ cinematic setting.


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## vitocorleone123 (Apr 21, 2022)

I can say the ducking makes it sound a lot better to me (it can be sort of subtle sometimes but I can always hear it). However, it may make it artificial but in a different way. Need to find some happy mediums if possible with the ducking vs. the early reflections. Good thing the demo was reset and I have 2 weeks.


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## Trash Panda (Apr 21, 2022)

KEM said:


> So basically there’s no reason to get Cinematic Rooms now then?


I think you got lost on your way to the controversial opinions thread. 😂


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## KEM (Apr 21, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I think you got lost on your way to the controversial opinions thread. 😂



Hey now, I only use Cinematic Rooms, I just assumed the only reason anyone else used it is because it’s surround and now that Seventh Heaven is surround everyone would switch back


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Apr 23, 2022)

KEM said:


> Hey now, I only use Cinematic Rooms, I just assumed the only reason anyone else used it is because it’s surround and now that Seventh Heaven is surround everyone would switch back


I only bought Cinematic Rooms to have an Atmos reverb. I don't usually remember I even have it when working on anything stereo. It's great and definitely different from Seventh Heaven but for stereo I have quite a few other options I normally use.


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## Trash Panda (Apr 23, 2022)

KEM said:


> Hey now, I only use Cinematic Rooms, I just assumed the only reason anyone else used it is because it’s surround and now that Seventh Heaven is surround everyone would switch back


I’m continually amazed at how people get so stuck on the surround aspect of that reverb that they think it’s not meant for stereo use. 😂


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## KEM (Apr 23, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I’m continually amazed at how people get so stuck on the surround aspect of that reverb that they think it’s not meant for stereo use. 😂



I’m using it in stereo and I love it, haven’t even looked at another reverb for orchestral sends since I got it, but the surround aspect is definitely it’s biggest selling point so I’d assume that’s why most have bought it


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## kgdrum (Apr 23, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I’m continually amazed at how people get so stuck on the surround aspect of that reverb that they think it’s not meant for stereo use. 😂




+1 Always Stereo


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## vitocorleone123 (Apr 30, 2022)

This was recently posted on Gearspace by Liquidsonics in the Seventh Heaven update thread, and I thought it worth pasting here from (hope that's OK!), primarily because of the last line Matt wrote, which I bolded:



> The technique to generate surround Fusion-IRs from stereo captures is new. I have been told by many surround engineers that traditional upmixing technologies were producing very poor spatialisation on stereo reverbs so for years I’d been looking for ways to improve it. Due to some rare properties of M7 reverbs, and the way I captured them in Seventh Heaven, and the fact that it’s a closed environment affording me more control, I was able to develop a decorrelation and reverb processing technique that has a bit of an unfair advantage over other up-mix techniques that generally have to work well on a much wider variety of sources and can’t integrate into the plug-in at the deepest levels.
> 
> Unfortunately those are prerequisites that cannot be met as well in Reverberate 3 for various reasons so I’m not expecting to bring the technique across unless I’m able to develop it further to make the technique more general purpose.
> 
> ...


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## KEM (Apr 30, 2022)

Quick question for you surround users: I don’t have enough speakers to do a 5.1/7.1 setup but I’m still able to setup surround outputs in Cubase and use Cinematic Rooms or Seventh Heaven in surround, would it be safe to use and export my reverbs in surround even if I can’t hear the extra outputs? And when downmixed to stereo would it sound normal or would the reverb pile up?


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## sDg (Apr 30, 2022)

Having owned SH Pro, I was a little disappointed when I put the Samplicity Bricasti true stereo samples on a bus and could hardly tell the difference. Surprisingly, I actually preferred the static convolution samples as they sounded less fake.

Most recently I've gone all Lexicon or Lexicon-style for algo and retain the Bricasti samples for when I want convolution.


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## LiquidSonics (May 2, 2022)

KEM said:


> Quick question for you surround users: I don’t have enough speakers to do a 5.1/7.1 setup but I’m still able to setup surround outputs in Cubase and use Cinematic Rooms or Seventh Heaven in surround, would it be safe to use and export my reverbs in surround even if I can’t hear the extra outputs? And when downmixed to stereo would it sound normal or would the reverb pile up?


You may want to just be a little mindful of levels as it's always good to be checking things like this when you're doing a fold-down, but the usual problems like reverbs clashing when they overlay due to correlation issues won't be a concern due to the way the additional channels are decorrelated. It's a key part of surround reverb design, so is something I am always sure to take good care of in these days of multiple fold-down routes from an Atmos mix.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 2, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I’m continually amazed at how people get so stuck on the surround aspect of that reverb that they think it’s not meant for stereo use. 😂


Awareness Future thinking.

I neutrally compared 7H Pro to CR Pro today, and yea…CR is more „alive“ and natural but still as clean. Enough Parameters for just that. 

Im still going the route of splitting ERs - Tail for depth, and would like to replace my Relab 480 for the tail with an other Algo. Those 480 tweakings are just so deep, i miss them anywhere else.


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## Zanshin (May 2, 2022)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Awareness Future thinking.
> 
> I neutrally compared 7H Pro to CR Pro today, and yea…CR is more „alive“ and natural but still as clean. Enough Parameters for just that.
> 
> Im still going the route of splitting ERs - Tail for depth, and would like to replace my Relab 480 for the tail with an other Algo. Those 480 tweakings are just so deep, i miss them anywhere else.


Have you tried Tai Chi yet?


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 2, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Have you tried Tai Chi yet?


Nope


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## Zanshin (May 2, 2022)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Nope


How about now? 

JK... You should give it a demo when you have a moment, very lush for tails!


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 2, 2022)

Will try and judge when im neutral enough (need an Energy Drink).


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## jamwerks (May 2, 2022)

I often change out patches or plugs in my template as my tastes and knowledge evolve. I've recently replaced all my CRR instances with 7H Pro instances. Just a matter of taste, but 7H shounded "better" each time. I also tried TC VSS4 (plug). Didn't beat 7H, but still very musical sounding !!


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 2, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> How about now?
> 
> JK... You should give it a demo when you have a moment, very lush for tails!


Ok, its nice too. 
Not toooo different (the more o’s the less hearing experience rule) More present ER‘s, but not metallic or something unpleasant. Pretty attacky. The tail is thick bushy but lushy, again not so different. Think Tai Chi is good on anything and CR would glue better on Orchestral stuff, but thats just my feeling instead of fundamental deep knowledge.

Overall in the same league.

Bitcrusher? Ok. Why, but ok.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 2, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> I often change out patches or plugs in my template as my tastes and knowledge evolve. I've recently replaced all my CRR instances with 7H Pro instances. Just a matter of taste, but 7H shounded "better" each time. I also tried TC VSS4 (plug). Didn't beat 7H, but still very musical sounding !!


Thought of selling CR?


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## jamwerks (May 2, 2022)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Thought of selling CR?


My tastes may further evolve!


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 2, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> My tastes may further evolve!


Have you tried Tai Chi? (ok so much for the hopeless try to guide away from CR).


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## Junolab (May 17, 2022)

And now CRP have ducking and compression as well 








Dynamics Added To Cinematic Rooms Professional v1.2 - LiquidSonics







www.liquidsonics.com


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## KEM (May 17, 2022)

Junolab said:


> And now CRP have ducking and compression as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Compression/ducking should be great for huge orchestral percussion (which I use a lot) so this a very nice update. Is it Apple Silicon native now too?


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## Junolab (May 17, 2022)

KEM said:


> Compression/ducking should be great for huge orchestral percussion (which I use a lot) so this a very nice update. Is it Apple Silicon native now too?


Yeah it is


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## Rob Elliott (May 17, 2022)

Any chance of HD Cart - having this dynamic/ducking feature soon?


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## LiquidSonics (Jun 26, 2022)

Rob Elliott said:


> Any chance of HD Cart - having this dynamic/ducking feature soon?


I do plan to bring these to HD Cart as well, and a few other updates that are in development for it too. I'm not sure of the timeline yet, but it's my main development job at the moment so hopefully reasonably soon.


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 26, 2022)

LiquidSonics said:


> I do plan to bring these to HD Cart as well, and a few other updates that are in development for it too. I'm not sure of the timeline yet, but it's my main development job at the moment so hopefully reasonably soon.


game changer! HD Cart is amazing now - ducking feature.....well.... )


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## Joël Dollié (Jun 26, 2022)

CR sounds way better than Seventh heaven imo, I think seventh heaven sounds pretty muddy for halls in particular.

EDIT:

To be clear I do think Seventh heaven has its uses, like a solo instrument or something that you really want a dense tail on, almost like the reverb becomes an instrument. But for most hall uses, libraries or live I think the transparent sound of CR retains more of the dynamics, keeps the sound more open, less smeared and is less transformative when it comes to throwing a decca tree mic in there or even outrigs. It just respects the source more and allows you to add necessary depth without overly muddying the sound (like VSS3 does as well).


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## synthetic (Jul 2, 2022)

I already had CRP and downloaded the demo for SHP. I was thinking about selling my Bricasti while it was still worth some money. So I spent an hour or so dialing in each reverb (and a few other plug-ins) to see which could get the closest to my favorite Bricasti program (Mechanics Hall with some tweaks.) 

What I found with Seventh Heaven is that it sounded very nice with the preset, and close to my hardware. But it was a bit long for my taste so I decreased the decay time. Then things got really weird. I guess it’s speeding up the convolution to decrease the decay time or something, but I didn’t like it at all. 

However I was able to dial in a program on Cinematic Rooms Professional that sounded extremely close to my Bricasti. I set up a loop in my DAW that alternated the same program through each, then left the room for a while. When I came back, it was very difficult to hear the difference between the two. Certainly not $3k of difference. 

I also know of a few plug-ins in development that might get even closer. So for the first time ever, I don’t have a hardware reverb in my system anymore. I still think there’s a subtle depth behind the speakers that hardware (Bricasti and PCM96) does better. But I couldn’t justify the 1% difference so it went into the new monitor fund.


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## NoamL (Jul 2, 2022)

@LiquidSonics (and @Joël Dollié !) Are there any theoretical issues with using 2 instances of CRP in series?

The example I'm thinking of is: I have a mockup that uses (A) some dry sample libraries and (B) others that were recorded on a large scoring stage. The dry libraries go to a submix bus that has CRP Score Stage as an insert, which fairly matches the sound of the wet libraries. Then A+B flow together to the mix bus where I'd like to put a finishing Bricasti-style verb. If this was a 2nd instance of CRP then it would be reverberating the output of the first Score-Stage CRP.

Are there any theoretical issues with this? Is it better to use a reverb with a different algo like 7H, VSS3 or HDCart?


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## aaronventure (Jul 2, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Are there any theoretical issues with using 2 instances of CRP in series?


Not who you asked, but in theory it's no different to just slapping a reverb on top of an already wet recording. You get reflections of reflections. It combs further and rings out a bit longer than what the RT60 states but that's about it. If your final bus reverb is _exactly _the same as the one on your dry instruments, then it will amplify the original. If its reflections are different even slightly, it'll blend on top. 

You should only run into issues if you have two reverbs in series with the same prominent modes. These would then stack. Algo reverbs are usually flat, and if you change the size/reflection pattern then you shouldn't have a prominent mode overlap.


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## synthetic (Jul 2, 2022)

NoamL said:


> @LiquidSonics (and @Joël Dollié !) Are there any theoretical issues with using 2 instances of CRP in series?


You might want to change the correlation of one of them? Not sure if that makes a difference but it might with similar reverb algorithms.


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## gst98 (Jul 4, 2022)

synthetic said:


> I already had CRP and downloaded the demo for SHP. I was thinking about selling my Bricasti while it was still worth some money. So I spent an hour or so dialing in each reverb (and a few other plug-ins) to see which could get the closest to my favorite Bricasti program (Mechanics Hall with some tweaks.)
> 
> What I found with Seventh Heaven is that it sounded very nice with the preset, and close to my hardware. But it was a bit long for my taste so I decreased the decay time. Then things got really weird. I guess it’s speeding up the convolution to decrease the decay time or something, but I didn’t like it at all.
> 
> ...


Would you mind saying which program you started with in CR to get closest? thanks


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## synthetic (Jul 4, 2022)

I think I started with “Milanese Grandeur” and set high multiply to 0.92 to start.


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## gst98 (Jul 4, 2022)

synthetic said:


> I think I started with “Milanese Grandeur” and set high multiply to 0.92 to start.


thank you


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## LiquidSonics (Aug 11, 2022)

Rob Elliott said:


> game changer! HD Cart is amazing now - ducking feature.....well.... )


It's taken a while, but finally I can now offer HD Cart with ducking (and a lot more besides including Atmos support) in the latest v1.2 update. Thanks for your patience.


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## Zanshin (Aug 11, 2022)

LiquidSonics said:


> It's taken a while, but finally I can now offer HD Cart with ducking (and a lot more besides including Atmos support) in the latest v1.2 update. Thanks for your patience.



Awesome


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## DJiLAND (Aug 11, 2022)

LiquidSonics said:


> It's taken a while, but finally I can now offer HD Cart with ducking (and a lot more besides including Atmos support) in the latest v1.2 update. Thanks for your patience.



Awesome..! Now I'm waiting for an update that will add Atmos and ducking to one stereo M7 via M7 Link 😁


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## LiquidSonics (Aug 11, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> Awesome..! Now I'm waiting for an update that will add Atmos and ducking to one stereo M7 via M7 Link 😁


Now that's a request and a half 😂


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## Rob Elliott (Aug 11, 2022)

LiquidSonics said:


> It's taken a while, but finally I can now offer HD Cart with ducking (and a lot more besides including Atmos support) in the latest v1.2 update. Thanks for your patience.


And its brilliant. Thank you.


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 11, 2022)

I’m only using stereo, but the additions to HD Cart

1) were big enough to call it a v2
2) would’ve cost money if coming from many other companies
3) totally elevates this characterful reverb to the next level AND broadens it’s ability to be used in more contexts

Fantastic work, and it sounds great! Thank you.

(I’m going to be unoriginal and copy/paste the above on GA, too)


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