# Finalizing by myself



## gsilbers (Apr 23, 2011)

you are talking about the UAD plugins right? 

because UAD does not do any hardware processing. it just does plugin processing on a different CPU instead of the main computer. 

in terms of making mixes sound better thats another thing. the card its just a big dongle and helps out the strain on computers. its still plugins same like native plugins. 

the plugins are good but no magic pill. you can get similar results with native plugins. both are plugins and both native vs UAD is a matter of taste.. and a quick search in gearslutz will yield a ton of argument about native vs UAD plugs. 

other plugs come to mind: mcdsp, ozone. oxford series and waves. 

i understand where you are coming from.. finilizing your own music is tough and takes time to nail down what works and what doesnt. 

samples of course make a huge difference. which iin most cases is the main source. 

also, there are some mixing and mastering tips. 

here are a couple:

transients: the more spikey transients you have you will have a more hard time normalizing or getting your mixes to sound bigger, yet you need those transients for a punchy mix. 
plugs in for transient designing are very useful... and try to find some videos about it. 

mix with a limiter on the master buss. L2 like plugins. which is a big no no in the music world but it helps out to listen how the mix will kinda sound when mastered correctly. but bypass it to compare and make sure u still have a balanced mix.

airwindows plugins and steven slate plugins. even the freebie "channel" plugin from airwindows brings sooo much into the mix. 
and both have this new type of plugin for mastering... the FX G and the NC 17 
which go along the sonnox/oxford inflator and limiter. 



master EQ: play around to compare final EQ settings of your mixes and commercial mixes. 
freds trick of match EQ is also an excelent idea

budget: remember that you are trying to imitate a very expensive process with plugins 
so making it sound like a new cd release is just not going to happen. 
although u can get close. 
also, for example , hans zimmer stuff sounds kinda good but when you compare it to 
bryan tyler you see how small it sounds in comparison. tylers stuff is LOUD!!!! 
yet, zimmer stuff sounds great too.
in other words. aim the mix for your audience.


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## RiffWraith (Apr 23, 2011)

lux @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> Would UAD change a lot in terms of finalizing and mastering?



Not if the same person is using it, no.



gsilbers @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> remember that you are trying to imitate a very expensive process with plugins so making it sound like a new cd release is just not going to happen...



Also, remember that you are trying to imitate a very expensive process without the ears and experience of someone who has created that new cd release.

It's not the tools - it's the perosn using them. Look at it this way. Do the best, most sought after and most experienced engineers take the music thay have just recorded and mixed, and go and master that recording? No - the music gets sent to someone else. Ever ask yourself why?

luca - is your room treated? If not, I would spend some money there before dropping any of your hard earned cash on more plugs.

Cheers.


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## Hal (Apr 23, 2011)

intersting comparison between Tyler and Hans ..
what makes Tyler stuff sound bigger/better ? he is certainly not dealing with better people then zimmer does or mastering in better studios ? why would zimmer stuff sound small in comparison ? unless he wants it to sound that way..why would he want his stuff to sound small :roll: :shock:


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## gsilbers (Apr 23, 2011)

Hal @ Sat Apr 23 said:


> intersting comparison between Tyler and Hans ..
> what makes Tyler stuff sound bigger/better ? he is certainly not dealing with better people then zimmer does or mastering in better studios ? why would zimmer stuff sound small in comparison ? unless he wants it to sound that way..why would he want his stuff to sound small :roll: :shock:




my guess its that Tyler masters it again for CD only release, while zimmer doesnt. 
but not sure. 


btw: 

here is one of the many thrwads about UAD vs native... 

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... -card.html


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## JohnG (Apr 23, 2011)

actually, I think Luca is asking in part -- hardware or plugins. There are many threads about that on gearslutz.

here's one:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end ... mples.html

UAD have videos on their site that show how some of their plugs work. Here's one for the Massive Passive EQ, which is seems popular for mastering.

http://www.uaudio.com/store/equalizers/ ... ssive.html

Videos for other products can be found the same way -- Home, Store, then pick the product and watch the video.


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## charlieclouser (Apr 23, 2011)

I've sworn by TC PowerCore and MasterX5 (which is also available as a TDM plugin).

I've used MasterX5 for almost ten years, and I can get things WAY fatter and louder than any outside mastering has been able to do. For a few of my early score albums I would send out the un-MasterX'ed mixes to real mastering houses, and what I got back never sounded as loud as what I can do with Mx5. This is why I just bought three more TC PowerCore PCIe cards - so I'll have enough to outlast the PCIe spec itself!

I also have UAD2quads (with all the plugs) and although their Precision Limiter can get sort of in the ballpark, it can't touch MasterX5 - nothing can!

Why? Two main reasons: 5 bands, and auto-gain. With 5 bands, I can set the crossover points so that subby kicks and massive subbass wobs don't cause pumping in bass guitar / cello register, and so forth. With Auto-Gain, you just set the desired headroom (I leave .1 of a db, the max is only .5 db) and Mx5 will put you there. It also has a simplified parameter set, with no individual threshold, attack and release for each band; this makes it hard to mess up the sound too much.

I've tried EVERY other multi-band comp and mastering comp plugin, and I own hardware Distressors, UBK Fatso, 2-1176, and I've sold more comps than I can remember - and nothing comes close. With Waves, MC2000, Logic Multi-Comp, etc. it's just too easy to create settings that change the frequency balance and mess everything up, and they just don't have the same kind of auto-gain that Mx5 does. 

I routinely see 12-28db of gain reduction, and never hear it. With adjustable lookahead, I can just step on the mix brutally and NOTHING gets through. For squishy, non-drummy cues, Mx5 will boost the HELL out of stuff and it still sounds right (to me). A lot of my stuff has quiet sounds mixed loudly (if that makes sense), and without Mx5 I couldn't make it happen. Takes two seconds for me to chomp on a mix with Mx5, but I always have it strapped on my stem busses, and I mean ALWAYS - while composing, picking sounds, editing sounds, whatever. 

Purists and real mastering engineers will tell me I'm doing unholy things to my dynamic range, but that's the point, as I am absolutely NOT trying to get a clear, realistic interpretation of anything... I'm trying to make my music audible over massive gunshots, car chases, people's arms being ripped off, etc. 

For TV work nothing can compare... and it's pretty set-and-forget; I sometimes automate the threshold parameter, but that's all.... TC MasterX5 FTW! 

There is a FireWire version of PowerCore (called PowerCore X- 8 ) and the MasterX5 plugin IS still being sold on the TCNow website for $99; although further development has ceased, the hardware and plugins are still for sale, at least for now...


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## gsilbers (Apr 23, 2011)

oh yes, the X5. a classic.  

ive used it when i worked in commercial TV/radio poò …   ÄÛ …   ÄÜ …   ÄÝ …   ÄÞ …   Äß …   Äà …   Äá …   Äâ …   Äã …   Ää …   Äå …


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## gsilbers (Apr 24, 2011)

lux @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> Hey, great infos indeed, thanks everyone for taking the time.
> 
> Yes, John is right.
> 
> ...



no tdm to vst bridge.

there are different powercore systems besides the x-8. there are pci cards at about $100. (not pci-e)


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## Patch666 (Apr 24, 2011)

If anyone is interested ... I've got a powercore X-8 ..used to use it on my mac .. now use it on a quad core PC on my slave and the plugs run great under J-Bridge in 64 bit. 
I use the great reverbs on my string section.. makes them very lush sounding .. you have to remember your getting a lot more than just the X5 when you get a powercore. Not to mention you can get the access virus for it.

Hope that helps, J Bridge Rules!

Patrick.


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## Patch666 (Apr 24, 2011)

If anyone is interested ... I've got a powercore X-8 ..used to use it on my mac .. now use it on a quad core PC on my slave and the plugs run great under J-Bridge in 64 bit. 
I use the great reverbs on my string section.. makes them very lush sounding .. you have to remember your getting a lot more than just the X5 when you get a powercore. Not to mention you can get the access virus for it.

Hope that helps, J Bridge Rules!

Patrick.


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## gsilbers (Apr 24, 2011)

are u selling it?


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## Patch666 (Apr 24, 2011)

gsilbers @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> are u selling it?



Opps no sorry, that was a bit misleading, i was just saying that for PC 64 bit users J bridge works really well on all the plugs.. so although tc electronics have dropped support J Bridge makes the plugs work as a 64 bit plugin. 

I think people without this knowledge will be flogging theirs on ebay pretty cheap considering it old technology. So you can pick up a cracking deal.

If only J bridge was on Mac too!! :evil: 32 bit server bridge .. :twisted: 

Thanks.


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## JohnG (Apr 24, 2011)

tragically, the MasterX5 appears to be available only in conjunction with tc electronic hardware. Not that this is so bad; my favourite reverb is tc.

But I wish there were a TDM version of MasterX5 available.


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## re-peat (Apr 24, 2011)

Luckily, there is, in my opinion, something even better (certainly more versatile) than the X5 and that is *Flux's Alchemist*. And you don't need extra hardware or ProTools to run it. It's rather pricey though. (And for Powercore, I actually prefer the MD3 to either the X3 or X5.)

But if you just want 'loud', there's also *Brainworx's bx-XL* (their _'The New Loud'_ m/s mastering limiter) or *FabFilter*'s very well-received *Pro-L* limiter. I haven't tried the FabFilter, but I did spent some time with the Brainworx and it really is rather good (and definitely possible to make things appear substantially louder while maintaining a very decent sound).

And *Izotope's Ozone* is still a very nice and useful tool as well of course.

Anyway, if all that's needed is to make sample-based productions sounds as loud as possible without destroying the sound too much, there is, in my view, absolutely no need at all to consider expensive hardware. Apart from the fact that you'd also need high-quality ADDA-convertors in order to take full advantage of whatever sonic subtleties the hardware might contribute (making this, all things put together, a VERY expensive choice), today's software is more than capable enough to deal with sample-based audiomaterial (which is, by definition, sonically pretty poor anyway). And an 'in the box'-solution is much more convenient as well.

_


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## germancomponist (Apr 24, 2011)

Good post, re-peat!

And +1 for Alchemist. 

I do not have it, but I have heared it and it is the best tool I have ever heared for mastering.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Apr 24, 2011)

Charlie,

MasterX sounds like a winner. 

Just so I'm clear, X5 is a PowerCore plug only; X3 is the TDM equivalent?

Will the X3 perform well enough, or do I really need the X5 / Powercore?

Thanks,

Mr A


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## StrangeCat (Apr 24, 2011)

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## charlieclouser (Apr 24, 2011)

Mr. Anxiety @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> Charlie,
> 
> MasterX sounds like a winner.
> 
> ...



X5 and X3 are very different - having 5 bands means that very low frequency sounds will not cause pumping to occur in the mid-bass region, so that, for instance, subby kicks can be compressed without affecting cellos or bass guitar. I used x3 for many years on TDM until x5 came out, then I used THAT for many years on TDM before PowerCore came out. I haven't kept up with TDM plugs lately, but last time I checked x3 and x5 were both available as TDM and PowerCore. It's only $99 for PowerCore these days, but of course one would need the now-discontinued PowerCore hardware... and I can't really recommend that anyone do as I do and chase discontinued stuff. I mean, I'm at the point where I've bought a bunch more PowerCore PCI cards and am buying multiple copies of x5 (which are serialized to only run on the card it was purchased for) just to insure that if something fails I can pull a fresh one off the shelf for years to come. Pretty rò …   ŽdY …   Ždª …   ŽdÈ …   Žfô …   Žg …   Žm¤ …   ŽmÍ …   ŽpN …   Žp¨ …   Ž™’ …   Ž¡Ä …   Ž¡Þ …   Ž¡î …   Ž½k …   Ž½­ …   ŽÃ …   ŽÃD …   Žç …   Žç< …   Žó¾ …   ŽóÉ …   Žø2 …   Žøj …   Žý{ …   Žý …     …     …   6 …   g …    …   ¸ …   :ê …   ;  …   <U …   <ž …   N' …   N- …   nà …   nè …   Œe …   Œj …   ¡ …   ¡Ÿ …   ¤ …   ¤ª …   ª …   ªm …   ¼Ô …   ¼â …   ½ …   ½  …   ¿ …   ¿ …   Èp …   È† …   ô‡ …   ô‹ …    µ …    Ä …   
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## gsilbers (Apr 24, 2011)

toddkreuz @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> Nobody even asked what type of music the OP is trying to master.
> Everybody just starts rattling off mastering/Limiter plugins. What are you guys mastering, a Nickelback record??
> 
> If we're talking anything to do with Orchestral music, i wouldnt use anything mentioned here, except maybe some very mild Waves L2, and Linear Multiband.




not if that orchestral music is intended for some music libraries  


dont get soo bitter dude.. we jumped into other interesting topics and the threads are still interesting, even for the OP.


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## toddkreuz (Apr 24, 2011)

gsilbers @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> toddkreuz @ Sun Apr 24 said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody even asked what type of music the OP is trying to master.
> ...



Oh of course, by all means. It just seems like nobody really knows what they're talking about. Which indeed is interesting. o[])


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## gsilbers (Apr 24, 2011)

oh, please.. go on and enlighten us mr happy...

tell us all you can from the the big world of mastering that we don't know anything about. 

who knows, maybe charlie and fred are dying to take notes on how to do this stuff or at least post properly in this forum....

c'mon.. dont be shy.. please let us know what we are missing...


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## StrangeCat (Apr 24, 2011)

toddkreuz @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> gsilbers @ Sun Apr 24 said:
> 
> 
> > toddkreuz @ Sun Apr 24 said:
> ...



I hear you there Orchestra Music I throw a reverb on it and then send that to a delay with a little bit of distortion from Ohmforces Ohmicide, then I take that and compress the hell out of it and WHAT?!!
o=?


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## Ashermusic (Apr 25, 2011)

re-peat @ Sun Apr 24 said:


> toddkreuz @ Sun Apr 24 said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody even asked what type of music the OP is trying to master.
> ...



Yep.


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## StrangeCat (Apr 25, 2011)

lux @ Mon Apr 25 said:


> Interesting replies indeed, thank you guys.
> 
> Yes, i should have specified. In this particular moment i'm more looking to master pop/lite rock material and some urban/hip hop songs.
> 
> ...



http://emusician.com/tutorials/remix_clinic_master_bus/

here's good read


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## StrangeCat (Apr 25, 2011)

because of the style you are doing and wanting to do it in the box at your studio you need to send to a guy like this

get a preview first , There is probably no way your going to be able to match what person like this can do. 

One track is Cheap!

http://www.masteringmastering.co.uk/onl ... ering.html

well one cd is cheap! Funny that's about the same price as cdbaby.com too.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 25, 2011)

> Yep.



To me that's way overstating the concept that you have to treat samples differently from a live orchestra.


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## lux (Apr 25, 2011)

StrangeCat @ Mon Apr 25 said:


> because of the style you are doing and wanting to do it in the box at your studio you need to send to a guy like this
> 
> get a preview first , There is probably no way your going to be able to match what person like this can do.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links Strangecat. You tried this service?


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## lux (Apr 26, 2011)

Hey, thank you. Yes definitely getting an example is a win win so i'll probably send a track and see what comes.


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## StrangeCat (Apr 26, 2011)

lux @ Tue Apr 26 said:


> Hey, thank you. Yes definitely getting an example is a win win so i'll probably send a track and see what comes.



Cool Man! I am going to be recording at my Friends Place again and working with him.
My little bedroom studio could never compete for a lot styles.

Have a good one!


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