# My Late 8dio contest submission ( rise of the shadow people) is it any good?



## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 15, 2014)

So i only heard about this 8dio contest a few days ago and thought id compose something so i gave it a shot and finished this track in 36 hours but still missed the deadline......
i think it was a good exercise nonetheless ...anyways i think its pretty decent but do u think i would have had any chance winning it?? would love to hear ur thoughts if u got any...


https://soundcloud.com/ash-ebrahim/rise ... dow-people

Ash


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## musophrenic (Oct 15, 2014)

As far as winning goes, I can never guess who could win what in a competition this wide open. When the criteria is "write an original piece of music in any style you want, and feature at least one of our instruments" ... how do you judge between a traditional orchestral track featuring Adagio and Claire, a dubstep jazz fusion featuring Dubstep, Trap, Hybrid Tools and the 1969 Steinway, and a piece of complex sound design based on manipulating the Forgotten Voices bundle? They could all be equally as excellent, in terms of creative execution, mixing, and overall just sounding damn good, as well as serve incredibly different purposes. 

The rest comes down to taste, I think. I don't know, lol. I wouldn't scoff at the chance for some of my favourite composers (Jeremy Soule and Blake Neely) to hear something I wrote, however, regardless of how it's judged.

As for your piece, Ash, if I were to judge it on creative execution, mixing, and overall just sounding damn good, you would definitely be in the running. I especially love the fusion of those retro electronic sounds in the second half. That was probably my favourite thing about it, and from hearing Troels' demos, I think he'd dig that kind of thing too (listen to his Skylark demo for Adagio Violas). 

I suppose the only thing I can criticise, and even then it's hardly a criticism, is that you're not treading a whole lot of new ground. Which is absolutely fine given that you billed it as an action trailer piece. This is what a style is - when a bunch of people do a bunch of similar things, it becomes a style. And I don't think it's a problem. Would I have been more impressed if you'd done something totally unthinkable? Probably (provided it doesn't end up sounding tacky). Do I hold that against you as I listen? Absolutely not, because I enjoyed the hell out of it, and I unapologetically enjoy the style itself. 

An example of the "unthinkable", I suppose, or something that surprised me with its awesomeness and how weird it was, is Two Steps From Hell's "All the King's Horses" from Skyworld. As a trailer piece, you wouldn't expect the vocal part of it the way it comes in at 1:28. It caught me out, made me smile, and I look forward to hearing that part every time I listen to the track.


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## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 16, 2014)

musophrenic @ Thu Oct 16 said:


> As far as winning goes, I can never guess who could win what in a competition this wide open. When the criteria is "write an original piece of music in any style you want, and feature at least one of our instruments" ... how do you judge between a traditional orchestral track featuring Adagio and Claire, a dubstep jazz fusion featuring Dubstep, Trap, Hybrid Tools and the 1969 Steinway, and a piece of complex sound design based on manipulating the Forgotten Voices bundle? They could all be equally as excellent, in terms of creative execution, mixing, and overall just sounding damn good, as well as serve incredibly different purposes.
> 
> The rest comes down to taste, I think. I don't know, lol. I wouldn't scoff at the chance for some of my favourite composers (Jeremy Soule and Blake Neely) to hear something I wrote, however, regardless of how it's judged.
> 
> ...






Hey meena, thanks a lot for giving it a listen, btw u really did nail how i feel about these sorta of competetions, u just don't know what they are looking for.... in this particular piece i was going for a very generic sounding trailer piece but i definitely wanted to put a little of me in there and i guess i tried to do that in the 2nd half of the piece....

oh btw i only knew about this contest from u when i saw ur piece on sound cloud... u should have posted it earlier.. lol maybe i would have caught thew deadline..


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## Kejero (Oct 16, 2014)

That's definitely better than a lot of the other submissions. I like it!


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## Dracarys (Oct 16, 2014)

This was very well done. As Ash stated, who cares if it's a cliche, it is what sells and what most working composers are writing. I'm not a fan of the electronic gates and synths that come in, they sound a bit too trance for me, maybe something darker ala Hanz Zimmer? 

Thanks for sharing.


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## musophrenic (Oct 16, 2014)

Ash Ebrahim @ Thu Oct 16 said:


> oh btw i only knew about this contest from u when i saw ur piece on sound cloud... u should have posted it earlier.. lol maybe i would have caught thew deadline..



Haha! Sorry, I should make sure all my life decisions in the future are based on what you know or don't know is happening  The somewhat good ideas I had in my piece (or at least the ideas I didn't absolutely hate) came to me basically at the last second - I was scrambling to get the thing in time myself!


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## zacnelson (Oct 16, 2014)

Hi Ash, I thoroughly enjoyed your submission! I was hooked right from the start, and even though as others have stated you have exhibited a familiar style, that is irrelevant, because you've done it WELL. Also, in the second half I really think you added a lot of unique flourishes and quite bold ideas. I almost think the discussion about `originality' in the forms we use is pointless; the composers out there making TV and film soundtracks that we listen to every night when we turn the TV on are most definitely confining their music with a very narrow range of parameters; if we are going to judge each other by those standards then we should in the same breath be saying those words about the big name composers also. 

Meena, I had a listen to your track as well, it was very very well done and very unique.

By the way Ash, as much as I enjoyed your track, I think the mix has far too much top end on everything. Maybe do some careful comparisons to some other tracks; I'm sure if you re-upload a new version with some improvements you will get away with it - theoretically somebody could just make any old soundcloud link and submit it and then post the music a few days later in the hope that they haven't got around to listening yet!! 

It can be very tempting to add lots of high frequency EQ, because when you do that you can hear all the little things in your mix and nothing gets lost. However the challenge is to create separation in the mix and still control the top-end. I am still learning how to do this myself, I can more-or-less achieve it with rock music but not so confidently with hybrid orchestral stuff like your track!

Good luck in the competition and I think you are definitely in the elite category of submissions.


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## zacnelson (Oct 16, 2014)

Ooops sorry Ash I just re-read your first post, I realise now that you actually missed the deadline! Such a shame, oh well enter this track next year


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## musophrenic (Oct 16, 2014)

zacnelson @ Fri Oct 17 said:


> Hi Ash, I thoroughly enjoyed your submission! I was hooked right from the start, and even though as others have stated you have exhibited a familiar style, that is irrelevant, because you've done it WELL. Also, in the second half I really think you added a lot of unique flourishes and quite bold ideas. I almost think the discussion about `originality' in the forms we use is pointless; the composers out there making TV and film soundtracks that we listen to every night when we turn the TV on are most definitely confining their music with a very narrow range of parameters; if we are going to judge each other by those standards then we should in the same breath be saying those words about the big name composers also.
> 
> Meena, I had a listen to your track as well, it was very very well done and very unique.



Glad you liked mine as well  

You're right, and I agree with most of what you say regarding the originality discussion. The only reason I bring it up is that it is in the context of a competition with no visual or thematic parameters to follow - i.e. a license to almost do whatever you want, which would open it up to the unexpected, you know what I mean? 

Of course, I'm not trying to judge anyone by any standard (I'm just some wise-ass with opinions that no-one needs to care about  ), these are just points I think about, that's all. 

But as I said, that had nothing to do with my enjoyment of the piece or how awesome I thought it was


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## SymphonicSamples (Oct 17, 2014)

Hey Ash , great track/production , it's a shame you missed the deadline . I cut mine short , finished the last day  And I checked yours out also Meena loved the mood and unique approach , great piece . I'm constantly amazed at how different 8dio libraries can sound in the hands of different composers , which I guess is a strength of a great sample library o-[][]-o


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## AC986 (Oct 17, 2014)

I'm loving that figure from 1:26. That rocks.


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## rayinstirling (Oct 17, 2014)

Adrian's interest was enough for me to do my worst.
I thought your cue was a bit bass-light so here is my tweak.

https://app.box.com/s/ft4nidazyri7t7q69hgs (Rise_Of_The_Shadow_People)


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## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 17, 2014)

Kejero @ Thu Oct 16 said:


> That's definitely better than a lot of the other submissions. I like it!



thanks alot for listening, i havent gotten around to listening to other tracks but i heard meena's track and its pretty darn good ..


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## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 17, 2014)

Casalena @ Thu Oct 16 said:


> This was very well done. As Ash stated, who cares if it's a cliche, it is what sells and what most working composers are writing. I'm not a fan of the electronic gates and synths that come in, they sound a bit too trance for me, maybe something darker ala Hanz Zimmer?
> 
> Thanks for sharing.



i get what u mean, i could have done that but i really just wanted to try something new here and see if i can get away with it hence the metal guitar in the last part as well.... but ya i see where u coming from


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## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 17, 2014)

zacnelson @ Thu Oct 16 said:


> Hi Ash, I thoroughly enjoyed your submission! I was hooked right from the start, and even though as others have stated you have exhibited a familiar style, that is irrelevant, because you've done it WELL. Also, in the second half I really think you added a lot of unique flourishes and quite bold ideas. I almost think the discussion about `originality' in the forms we use is pointless; the composers out there making TV and film soundtracks that we listen to every night when we turn the TV on are most definitely confining their music with a very narrow range of parameters; if we are going to judge each other by those standards then we should in the same breath be saying those words about the big name composers also.
> 
> Meena, I had a listen to your track as well, it was very very well done and very unique.
> 
> ...





well said,, i think i have struggled with too much low frequency in my older tracks and my soundcloud channel is the best prove for that .. so i think i have been very critical of my low ends and have been very careful with it... its such a fine line most of the times.... but i think ill re visit it... someone actually uploaded another eq'd version of my track down beloa and it actually sounds really good .. will try and compare both versions tonight when i get the chance....


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## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 17, 2014)

SymphonicSamples @ Fri Oct 17 said:


> Hey Ash , great track/production , it's a shame you missed the deadline . I cut mine short , finished the last day  And I checked yours out also Meena loved the mood and unique approach , great piece . I'm constantly amazed at how different 8dio libraries can sound in the hands of different composers , which I guess is a strength of a great sample library o-[][]-o




thanks alot for your kind words..... ill give ur track a listen o-[][]-o


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## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 17, 2014)

adriancook @ Fri Oct 17 said:


> I'm loving that figure from 1:26. That rocks.



haha thanks adrian, that part was probably the most fun i have had in a while...


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## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 17, 2014)

rayinstirling @ Fri Oct 17 said:


> Adrian's interest was enough for me to do my worst.
> I thought your cue was a bit bass-light so here is my tweak.
> 
> https://app.box.com/s/ft4nidazyri7t7q69hgs (Rise_Of_The_Shadow_People)




that is actually really good, can i ask what adjustment u have made so i can be a little careful next time? and can u send me your version of that track to my email its [email protected]


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## rayinstirling (Oct 18, 2014)

Ash Ebrahim @ Fri Oct 17 said:


> rayinstirling @ Fri Oct 17 said:
> 
> 
> > Adrian's interest was enough for me to do my worst.
> ...



Ash,

I'm glad you like my tweak of your soundcloud audio file. Not only that but I downloaded it as 128 kbps mp3 before processing in WaveLab 8.5 at 32bit floating point.
By all accounts it just shouldn't sound okay never mind good however, I didn't let that get in my way. I'm certainly not God's gift to audio mastering but, I use the monitoring system and tools I have to create a sound I like on this cue or any other I've tackled. It is a bonus if others including the composers enjoy the result. It's my passion now at an age where my ears are probably on borrowed time following forty odd years of abuse from every kind of kilowatt amplification system know to man (and headphones too loud).
Basically I used the tried and trusted method of eq, multiband compression and limiting although in this case I also adjusted the stereo width in multiband mode where bass was narrowed and highs widened.
Equalization adjustment being that of separate mid/side settings. Adding more around 60Hz in the middle but removing that band on the sides.
What can I say other than that of trying to create spectral balance throughout the range of sounds presented in the mix. There isn't even a screen shot available of the plugins used because once I completed this master I binned the project. 
Although I don't rely on visual metering preferring just to listen and tweak as I see fit I do check the relative loudness of my efforts compared to the original using MeterPlugs Preception developed by Ian Shepherd. http://productionadvice.co.uk/about/
Just to make sure it isn't simply a loudness hit giving reward.

Kind Regards

Ray


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## zacnelson (Oct 18, 2014)

You'd better be careful Ray or you'll be getting emails from me asking you to help me master my songs 

From your description it seems like you really know your stuff!!


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## rayinstirling (Oct 18, 2014)

zacnelson @ Sat Oct 18 said:


> You'd better be careful Ray or you'll be getting emails from me asking you to help me master my songs
> 
> From your description it seems like you really know your stuff!!


Zac,
Matthew got in first.


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## zacnelson (Oct 18, 2014)

Ha!!


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## Dracarys (Oct 19, 2014)

Ash Ebrahim @ Fri Oct 17 said:


> zacnelson @ Thu Oct 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Ash, I thoroughly enjoyed your submission! I was hooked right from the start, and even though as others have stated you have exhibited a familiar style, that is irrelevant, because you've done it WELL. Also, in the second half I really think you added a lot of unique flourishes and quite bold ideas. I almost think the discussion about `originality' in the forms we use is pointless; the composers out there making TV and film soundtracks that we listen to every night when we turn the TV on are most definitely confining their music with a very narrow range of parameters; if we are going to judge each other by those standards then we should in the same breath be saying those words about the big name composers also.
> ...




I hear you, I've put some random sounds in my pieces as well. Now hit a fellow Canadian's thread!

BTW how is the scene in Toronto? I'm about to make the move from Windsor.


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## SyMTiK (Oct 19, 2014)

I LOVE the percussion. really big and in your face. 

I didnt really like the EDM synths, I thought it made it a little cheezy. however, I think as the piece went on they started to fit in a little better. 

Very good mixing wise, very clean and everything seems to sit well in the mix. 

i did think maybe the strings at the beginning had a few places here and there where they sounded a little static, maybe they couldve used just a tad more expression to liven them up a bit, but thats being really quite picky. 

Overall, very good job! I think this wouldve done very well in the competition. Thats too bad you missed the deadline :/


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## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 20, 2014)

Casalena @ Sun Oct 19 said:


> Ash Ebrahim @ Fri Oct 17 said:
> 
> 
> > zacnelson @ Thu Oct 16 said:
> ...




hey welcome to toronto buddy, its cold out there in windsor eh!

well the scene is pretty slow in toronto unless u got tons of connections... i just made a move to cairo, Egypt where i am hoping to it would be a little better...


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## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 23, 2014)

SyMTiK @ Sun Oct 19 said:


> I LOVE the percussion. really big and in your face.
> 
> I didnt really like the EDM synths, I thought it made it a little cheezy. however, I think as the piece went on they started to fit in a little better.
> 
> ...



hey symtik,

thanks for listening, i know what u mean bout the edm synths, it was my thought as well at first but then i thought to my self well maybe this is what the piece needed.. just a little off the topic sound to bring interest to the 2nd half.... anyways it was just me trying to think outta of the box


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## zacnelson (Oct 23, 2014)

I think it's great Ash just follow your creative vision and don't stress about it. The EDM part made the track BETTER not worse


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## Ash Ebrahim (Oct 25, 2014)

zacnelson @ Thu Oct 23 said:


> I think it's great Ash just follow your creative vision and don't stress about it. The EDM part made the track BETTER not worse



thanks alot bud


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