# New Native Instruments controllers incoming!



## mac (Sep 6, 2017)

Received this email earlier, but the web pages have been rapidly taken down. 100% legit though, and they're looking great!


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## mac (Sep 6, 2017)




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## Steinmetzify (Sep 6, 2017)

Man, the keyboards are DEEP...looks like they listened to people and got rid of the strips for pitch/mod...good deal.


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## sostenuto (Sep 6, 2017)

Yeah ... figures !  Recently got S-49 even though no ModWheel ..... PITA going back & forth from Axiom Pro61 MW to S-49 Slider ....

How 'bout it NI ???? _Hardware_ crossgrade price ??


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## AdamKmusic (Sep 6, 2017)

Man those are....chunky


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## jamwerks (Sep 6, 2017)

Keyboards seem too deep for studio use. Sad!


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2017)

They don't seem too deep to me. They're not as deep as, say, a Yamaha Motif. I think it's something in the range of my Kurzweil PC3K8 as far as depth is concerned, or a bit less. And PC3K8 is one of the less deep full-blown keyboards (_not _MIDI controllers) on the market.

Additional depth seems basically as long as a single white key, or thereabouts. That's really not too much.


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## mac (Sep 6, 2017)

Im liking the bulk, it'll match my stomach.


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## lastmessiah (Sep 6, 2017)

How do we know this is "100% legit"?


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## mac (Sep 6, 2017)

lastmessiah said:


> How do we know this is "100% legit"?



It's more or less been confirmed on the NI forum, and a lot of major retailers had it listed and have removed it. Seems to be something that happens constantly with NI, new major releases are leaked a day or two before the official announcement.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Sep 6, 2017)

So apparently no new 88 key version (yet). Hope they don't discontinue that one. That would be a huge disappointment.


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## Pablocrespo (Sep 6, 2017)

I wish they would make only the controls part available without the keyboard!

I have no use for a new keyboard but I bet that a small "top part" would also sell


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## samphony (Sep 6, 2017)

Pablocrespo said:


> I wish they would make only the controls part available without the keyboard!
> 
> I have no use for a new keyboard but I bet that a small "top part" would also sell



I've created a mockup for a possible studio version controller and pitched it to NI in 2015 but they where not interested.


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## samphony (Sep 6, 2017)




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## Pablocrespo (Sep 6, 2017)

samphony said:


> I've created a mockup for a possible studio version controller and pitched it to NI in 2015 but they where not interested.


I can´t believe thy don´t want to do that thing, they could sell it a lot I think


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## lp59burst (Sep 6, 2017)

samphony said:


>


Maybe it was the Doepfer keyboard you chose...


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## samphony (Sep 6, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> Maybe it was the Doepfer keyboard you chose...


Hahaha


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2017)

Pablocrespo said:


> I wish they would make only the controls part available without the keyboard!
> 
> I have no use for a new keyboard but I bet that a small "top part" would also sell



It's called Maschine Mikro.


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## Pablocrespo (Sep 6, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> It's called Maschine Mikro.



It doesn´t have the eight encoders, and have pads, I was talking at the kontrol part only.


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## TheNorseman (Sep 6, 2017)

Steinmetzify said:


> Man, the keyboards are DEEP...looks like they listened to people and got rid of the strips for pitch/mod...good deal.



Absofreakinglutely. Those strips were the worst. I really love the light guide on the KK but that's pretty much the only thing I find useful about it. Plus I have always thought that thing has a huge ass and is just straight up fugly.


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## mac (Sep 7, 2017)

Nice https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/total-nonstop-creativity/?content=4011


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## Alex Fraser (Sep 7, 2017)

TheNorseman said:


> Absofreakinglutely. Those strips were the worst. I really love the light guide on the KK but that's pretty much the only thing I find useful about it. Plus I have always thought that thing has a huge ass and is just straight up fugly.



I can't quite make up my mind about the KK, ever since the first one.
There's always been a touch of "solution looking for a problem" about it.
Whilst I can see the use in the light guide..some of the other stuff is really twee. I don't need a "quantize" button when I can simply hit 'q' on the computer keyboard in front of me. Little stuff like that.

Also, the entire concept of being able to browse and audition across all your libraries escapes me a little. Surely it's better to know your synths/libraries well enough that you know where to go when you need a certain sound, rather than moving pot-luck through a bajillion presets within a wrapper plugin?

But that's my own op based on my own workflow preferences. I guess if you find the hardware helpful and inspiring, then cool. Maybe just not for me. Maybe I'm missing the point. Wouldn't be the first time.


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## mickeyl (Sep 7, 2017)

Let's see when the S88 mk2 drops. Now that it already got the displays, how 'bout adding some drum pads as well? => Boom, fixed the ergonomics of using both KONTROL and MASCHINE together.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Sep 7, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Yeah ... figures !  Recently got S-49 even though no ModWheel ..... PITA going back & forth from Axiom Pro61 MW to S-49 Slider ....
> 
> How 'bout it NI ???? _Hardware_ crossgrade price ??


Yes, please...though they look a little chunky and I don't use the pitchwheel or MOD, I use my Lemur Composer Tools Pro app and a EXP pedal...


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Sep 7, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> Maybe it was the Doepfer keyboard you chose...


Should have gone for the black Doepfer


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## lastmessiah (Sep 7, 2017)

Alex Fraser said:


> I can't quite make up my mind about the KK, ever since the first one.
> There's always been a touch of "solution looking for a problem" about it.
> Whilst I can see the use in the light guide..some of the other stuff is really twee. I don't need a "quantize" button when I can simply hit 'q' on the computer keyboard in front of me. Little stuff like that.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I agree. I was looking at an Ableton Push but came to pretty much the same conclusion. Is it really more efficient than just using the mouse/kb to trigger the functions, especially since you're going to be interfacing with the computer anyway? I might be totally wrong about this of course, I just haven't had much hands-on experience.


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## brentm (Sep 7, 2017)

Alex Fraser said:


> I can't quite make up my mind about the KK, ever since the first one.
> There's always been a touch of "solution looking for a problem" about it.
> Whilst I can see the use in the light guide..some of the other stuff is really twee. I don't need a "quantize" button when I can simply hit 'q' on the computer keyboard in front of me. Little stuff like that.
> 
> ...



I have the original KK and I agree with what you say. I'm glad I have it, it's a quality piece of gear and stopped my search for a good controller after going through about half a dozen cheaper ones, but I only load an instrument through the KK software when I want to control some parameter in real time, which isn't that often. Otherwise I just load any synth or sample library the old fashioned way, as an individual instrument. Yes, it's best just to know your software and what works best for what you are trying to do. 

I do like the touch strips better than the wheels, and the light guide is handy for things like Battery. The transport functions enabled my to sell my Faderport, which freed up some desk space. Otherwise, all these additional functions in the new version can easily be done with a QWERTY and mouse or other software (arps, input filtering etc.). And the screens are nice and may offer some convenience/speed, but I can't see how you can get away from looking at your computer screen eventually. And they're only useful if you're going to be using the KK software to browse and load your instruments, which I don't so that often. I don't think I'll be upgrading this time around. I don't use Maschine so don't need that integration. 

The keybed isn't as good as the one I had on my Yamaha MO6, but better than the ones you get on cheaper controllers.

Still, I do look forward to further development of the product and hope in the future there are more useful/less redundant functions added.


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## John Busby (Sep 7, 2017)

They're officially up for pre-order now
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/total-nonstop-creativity/?content=4011

edit: sorry mac, didn't realize you posted this earlier


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 7, 2017)

Would have really been cool if it had 8 x 100mm faders on it for controlling cc's.....

Then I would have probably performed the dance of the seven tea towels in pure ecstasy and joyfulness.





Only probably though....


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## C-Wave (Sep 7, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> Would have really been cool if it had 8 x 100mm faders on it for controlling cc's.....
> 
> Then I would have probably performed the dance of the seven tea towels in pure ecstasy and joyfulness.
> 
> ...


.. and I would have join you  my God why did they miss it AGAIN?!


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## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2017)

mickeyl said:


> Now that it already got the displays, how 'bout adding some drum pads as well?



I wouldn't hold my breath for that. They want you to use Maschine for that.



C-Wave said:


> my God why did they miss it AGAIN?!



I would assume it's because they also have Maschine Jam in their product range.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 7, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> I would assume it's because they also have Maschine Jam in their product range.



I would rather use a diseased porcupine as a midi cc controller than those touch sliders.


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## John Busby (Sep 7, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> I would rather use a diseased porcupine as a midi cc controller than those touch sliders.


tell us how you really feel lol


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## StillLife (Sep 7, 2017)

brentm said:


> I have the original KK and I agree with what you say. I'm glad I have it, it's a quality piece of gear and stopped my search for a good controller after going through about half a dozen cheaper ones, but I only load an instrument through the KK software when I want to control some parameter in real time, which isn't that often. Otherwise I just load any synth or sample library the old fashioned way, as an individual instrument. Yes, it's best just to know your software and what works best for what you are trying to do.
> 
> I do like the touch strips better than the wheels, and the light guide is handy for things like Battery. The transport functions enabled my to sell my Faderport, which freed up some desk space. Otherwise, all these additional functions in the new version can easily be done with a QWERTY and mouse or other software (arps, input filtering etc.). And the screens are nice and may offer some convenience/speed, but I can't see how you can get away from looking at your computer screen eventually. And they're only useful if you're going to be using the KK software to browse and load your instruments, which I don't so that often. I don't think I'll be upgrading this time around. I don't use Maschine so don't need that integration.
> 
> ...



I think a large part of this controller's usefulness depends on how you work. I love to work in Cubase, but when I am composing all its possibilities do tend to distract me. Having a keyboard you can easily select tracks, instruments and then quickly add some automation and a preliminary mix, all without leaving the hardware, is a real bonus for me, especially since the S61 is not in front of my pc. It does keep me in the writing mode and mood, and this new version promise to offer even more immersion. 
Although it still won't be perfect (for it to come closer to that it should have a button 'add instrument/komplete kontrol track' right on the hardware), I think I will upgrade.


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## kavinsky (Sep 7, 2017)

I feel that it's the same story as with ableton and dedicated controllers like apc40 that came around 2011. Launchpads and whatnot

The ads and "sick" promo vids were everywhere - many people fell for the hype and bought it.
But it turned out that it's a hastle to actually try and implement it into the workflow, so they just were sitting there collecting dust and then being sold used everywhere.
A few people used them "live" for DJsets and this kind of stuff, but they never stood the test of time.
Some producers like to use maschine, primarily because they're familiar with AKAIs, to me it feels like just one more obstacle in the way of getting things done.

personally I struggle to understand these new controllers with displays and lots of submenus - I have my 2 monitors already and they are perfect for me.

And I'm a lot faster and happier with a mouse - no surprise, I was using this damn thing for 20 years.

PS probably just a matter of taste and workflow habits after all


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## mac (Sep 7, 2017)

@kavinsky I know what you mean, and the hype videos are kinda annoying, especially when they centre around OTT live performances. In saying that, it's definitely a workflow thing. I can get an 8 track, 8 bar loop going in less than half the time on maschine than I could with a mouse and daw. Importantly too, I have twice the fun doing it.

I was painfully slow and constantly banging my head against a wall when I first got maschine, but I stuck with it and now it's brilliant. That's why small things like now having a dedicated pad mode button on the new model get me so excited 

I noticed too that Harry Gregson-Williams and Trevor Morris have them front and centre on their desks, amongst other composers. Good enough for them, good enough for me


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## StillLife (Sep 7, 2017)

kavinsky said:


> And I'm a lot faster and happier with a mouse - no surprise, I was using this damn thing for 20 years.



Yes, I am one of those mouse-lovers too. It's a great tool, just not when I am playing the keyboard. 
KK mk2 for writing, putting tracks together quickly and then rolling my chair to the pc for editing and in depth mixing: seems perfect for me


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## TheNorseman (Sep 7, 2017)

kavinsky said:


> I feel that it's the same story as with ableton and dedicated controllers like apc40 that came around 2011. Launchpads and whatnot
> 
> The ads and "sick" promo vids were everywhere - many people fell for the hype and bought it.
> But it turned out that it's a hastle to actually try and implement it into the workflow, so they just were sitting there collecting dust and then being sold used everywhere.
> ...



I'm exactly the same way. I remember years ago back in college, I was mixing a buddy's metal band. I had a berhinger control surface that I was able to borrow, with motorized faders and everything. I thought it was so dope. Then when we finished tracking and I started mixing, I gradually started depending more and more on my mouse, and eventually ended up not using it as all. I'm certain that it can help out your work flow, but you would really have to take the time to learn how to incorporate it for it to become convenient.


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## thereus (Sep 7, 2017)

I love the touch sliders. Each to their own...


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## StillLife (Sep 7, 2017)

TheNorseman said:


> I'm exactly the same way. I remember years ago back in college, I was mixing a buddy's metal band. I had a berhinger control surface that I was able to borrow, with motorized faders and everything. I thought it was so dope. Then when we finished tracking and I started mixing, I gradually started depending more and more on my mouse, and eventually ended up not using it as all. I'm certain that it can help out your work flow, but you would really have to take the time to learn how to incorporate it for it to become convenient.


I don't think these keyboards will enhance mixing workflow. Writing-playing around-making music-composing workflow however... To me it seems they're designed to fit a particular phase in the process of producing a song/piece of music.


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## StillLife (Sep 7, 2017)

mac said:


> @kavinsky I know what you mean, and the hype videos are kinda annoying, especially when they centre around OTT live performances. In saying that, it's definitely a workflow thing. I can get an 8 track, 8 bar loop going in less than half the time on maschine than I could with a mouse and daw. Importantly too, I have twice the fun doing it.
> 
> I was painfully slow and constantly banging my head against a wall when I first got maschine, but I stuck with it and now it's brilliant. That's why small things like now having a dedicated pad mode button on the new model get me so excited
> 
> I noticed too that Harry Gregson-Williams and Trevor Morris have them front and centre on their desks, amongst other composers. Good enough for them, good enough for me


Though I love the KK keyboards, I never really got on with Maschine. I never got out of the head scratching phase and ended up selling it. Can you elaborate a bit on the moment you 'got it' with Maschine?


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## mac (Sep 7, 2017)

@StillLife it's when I stopped trying to use it as a daw, and instead use the parts that suit my workflow - loop creation in my case. I use it like any musical instrument, then export the tracks into Logic to arrange and do the final mixing. Arranging on maschine makes me sad, especially when I have logic there.

In the last 12 months though, the software has improved massively what with scenes added etc. I know people who like to arrange and mix on mashcine are a lot happier. I also use the jam to add scenes and patterns, and it does the job beautifully.


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## gsilbers (Sep 7, 2017)

would of been nice to have touchscreen sliders/faders for cc changes and volume/gui style. oh well.

I just feel dejavu from Kore2 which i bought for similar reasons as the video shows and at the end i didnt use it at all.

also, this keyboard is hugley deep! 

could be cool for live performances though.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> also, this keyboard is hugley deep!



No, it's not. Kawai VPC1 is hugely deep (425 mm!). Yamaha Motif is hugely deep (466 mm). S49/61 mkII are 297 mm deep. That's even less than my PC3K8, which is 355 mm deep.


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## mac (Sep 7, 2017)

It's less than an inch deeper than the current model, I don't see what the problem is considering the extra features that they've managed to cram into that space.


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## mac (Sep 7, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> No, it's not. Kawai VPC1 is hugely deep.



The Arp odyssey, that's deep.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2017)

Totally :D


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## gsilbers (Sep 7, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> No, it's not. Kawai VPC1 is hugely deep.



for me even the roland a88 is too deep  
but i work like 5 centimeters from the screen and rather have it below the desk out of site so i dont see me using the new features.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 7, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> but i work like 5 centimeters from the screen



Well that's not healthy for your eyes. 


(I also have my keyboard below the desk, pulling it out when necessary. Not a problem.)


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## MisteR (Sep 7, 2017)

These look cool except... tell me again why I want to dial my way through presets as opposed to using a touch screen? I'd pay a couple extra hundred dollars for the change.


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## StillLife (Sep 7, 2017)

MisteR said:


> These look cool except... tell me again why I want to dial my way through presets as opposed to using a touch screen? I'd pay a couple extra hundred dollars for the change.


But the majority of their customers probably wouldn't. Maybe they'll create a deluxe version somewhere down the line?
I am happy that the price for the unit is exactly the same as the MK1 versions, by the way.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 7, 2017)




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## dpasdernick (Sep 7, 2017)

Alex Fraser said:


> ...
> 
> *Also, the entire concept of being able to browse and audition across all your libraries escapes me a little. Surely it's better to know your synths/libraries well enough that you know where to go when you need a certain sound, rather than moving pot-luck through a bajillion presets within a wrapper plugin?*



That's me. On one single instrument (my Integra 7) I have over 6000 sounds. I'm up to 4532 and have not quite heard the right one yet... 

You know those facts like "the time you spend clipping your fingernails in your lifetime equals 32 days" They need to add "the time you spend cycling through patches in soft synths is equal to 7 years of your life... 8 if you own Omnisphere"


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## gsilbers (Sep 7, 2017)

MisteR said:


> These look cool except... tell me again why I want to dial my way through presets as opposed to using a touch screen? I'd pay a couple extra hundred dollars for the change.



i think that was also the idea of Kore2? didnt work for me. 

but yes, the idea of touchscreen would of been nice.


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## Pietro (Sep 8, 2017)

I see where they are taking this. It's all bling bling basically.

Now I would love a NI Komplete Lackofkontrol 88. Leave keys, lights, wheels, touch strip and build quality but ditch the rest. Add one more mod wheel if you want to make me extra happy :D.

- Piotr


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## W Ackerman (Sep 8, 2017)

MisteR said:


> These look cool except... tell me again why I want to dial my way through presets as opposed to using a touch screen? I'd pay a couple extra hundred dollars for the change.



Why not velcro an iPad mini 4 (used less than $200) to the available surface on the upper left of the keyboard? Run one of the many MIDI control apps (e.g., Lemur).


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## FriFlo (Sep 9, 2017)

Well, NI could pull off something great with that kind of hardware, but it seems to me there are to many impractical sides in what they are making of it on the software side ...
1) There is no way to control template tracks with NKS in VEpro. That alone kills it for me, as I rely heavily on VEpro.
2) Enless Rotary encoders are not good for certain applications. I would like to see some faders as well.
3) I don't like to use the automation lane for entering CC data, as (in Cubase) you cannot show the data under the notes in the key editor. Being able to edit notes and controls in one editor and viewing them aligned is crucial for good midi work.

Especially the last point is not only NIs fault, but rather the lack of innovation on the side of DAW companies like Steinberg (and probably most of the other ones as well). It always bewilders me how they can not spend more time on improving the most essential parts of their software, which most of us spend most of our time with and come up with lots of other stuff that is rarely being used. There hardly is any evolution to midi sequencing today, while it would be pretty straight forward and easy to achieve great workflow improvements there. A midi wrapper is always limited by that lack of imagination on their part ...

For controlling soft synths, the NKS series could be pretty neat, though. Here, a few more controls like a couple of faders could make it even better. I seriously consider one as a secondary controller. But as a main controller it is far from being as great as it potentially could (and would have to) be, unfortunately.


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## Benjamin Orth (Sep 9, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Well, NI could pull off something great with that kind of hardware, but it seems to me there are to many impractical sides in what they are making of it on the software side ...
> .



I totally agree with that - more regarding the Komplete Kontrol software though. I'm using a Kontrol S88 for about a year now, the key action is great and the light guide really helps especially with drum kits etc. - but the Komplete Kontrol software feels more cumbersome than the normal Kontakt software. Not all libraries show up and I always have to adjust some view options.


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## jamwerks (Sep 9, 2017)

Have watched a few videos. Have to say seems like they've done a good job here. Am considering the S49 as second (side) studio keyboard.


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## ChristopherDoucet (Sep 9, 2017)

Unfortunately, not being able to use NKS or the lights in Vepro is a deal breaker for me.

To bad. I would be buying these for all my rigs.

Unless anyone has heard about NI possibly having plans to fix this?


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## C-Wave (Sep 9, 2017)

Anybody knows if Maschine mk3 integrate Komplete Kontrol software on it's screens like the new keyboards do?
If it does I'd put one near my digital piano.


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## jamwerks (Sep 9, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> Anybody knows if Maschine mk3 integrate Komplete Kontrol software on it's screens like the new keyboards do?
> If it does I'd put one near my digital piano.


The two seem to work together in a snazzy way.

Would be nice if it could also control Uhe stuff also...


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## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 9, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Would be nice if it could also control Uhe stuff also...



The current Komplete Kontrol keyboards can control ALL 64 bit VSTs as long as they are loaded up as plug-ins through Komplete Kontrol. 

Don't know why the new ones wouldn't be able to do the same.


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## galactic orange (Sep 9, 2017)

C-Wave said:


> Anybody knows if Maschine mk3 integrate Komplete Kontrol software on it's screens like the new keyboards do?
> If it does I'd put one near my digital piano.


On a similar note, does the Maschine Mk3 offer the same DAW browsing control since they both have that nifty joystick? The KK Mk2 had a dedicated set of buttons for Browser, MIDI, etc... but I should probably check if Maschine has something similar (more than just the MIDI mode it has always had).


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