# Spitfire Solo Strings vs. Cinematic Studio Solo Strings



## ag75 (Dec 26, 2018)

I have looked through the forum but haven't been able to find this comparison. I am a sucker for solo string libraries. I already own CSSS but wanted to take advantage of the Christmas Wish Discount and pick up the SSS. How do these two libraries compare to one another? Also how does the Saconni String Quartet compare to both of these as well?


----------



## Goldie Zwecker (Dec 26, 2018)

ag75 said:


> I have looked through the forum but haven't been able to find this comparison. I am a sucker for solo string libraries. I already own CSSS but wanted to take advantage of the Christmas Wish Discount and pick up the SSS. How do these two libraries compare to one another?


Also interested in the same question.


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 26, 2018)

ag75 said:


> I have looked through the forum but haven't been able to find this comparison. I am a sucker for solo string libraries. I already own CSSS but wanted to take advantage of the Christmas Wish Discount and pick up the SSS. How do these two libraries compare to one another? Also how does the Saconni String Quartet compare to both of these as well?



Get the SSoS. You won’t be disappointed. At 40% off it’s a phenomenal deal. IMO, it’s a more vivid, detailed and 3D sound than CSS with many more articulations (also the new total performance legato patch is pretty amazing). CSS is less work, the legatos and vibrato need less elbow grease but to me the tone is less detailed and more 2D. It’s also a very specific performance style with the built-in, non-controllable vibrato.


----------



## ag75 (Dec 26, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> Get the SSoS. You won’t be disappointed. At 40% off it’s a phenomenal deal. IMO, it’s a more vivid, detailed and 3D sound than CSS with many more articulations (also the new total performance legato patch is pretty amazing). CSS is less work, the legatos and vibrato need less elbow grease but to me the tone is less detailed and more 2D. It’s also a very specific performance style with the built-in, non-controllable vibrato.


Thanks, I appreciate your input. I'm going to get SSoS.


----------



## Goldie Zwecker (Dec 26, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> Get the SSoS. You won’t be disappointed. At 40% off it’s a phenomenal deal. IMO, it’s a more vivid, detailed and 3D sound than CSS with many more articulations (also the new total performance legato patch is pretty amazing). CSS is less work, the legatos and vibrato need less elbow grease but to me the tone is less detailed and more 2D. It’s also a very specific performance style with the built-in, non-controllable vibrato.


How does the spitfire solo strings stack up to embertone's intimate strings? Specially Joshua bell violin, but not just.


----------



## ag75 (Dec 26, 2018)

Also *Xsample Extended Edition Solo Strings sound amazing to me. But I can't make heads or tails of the website. Great sounding quartet library though.*


----------



## SirKen (Dec 26, 2018)

ag75 said:


> Also *Xsample Extended Edition Solo Strings sound amazing to me. But I can't make heads or tails of the website. Great sounding quartet library though.*



This page explains the product breakdown:
http://xsample.de/xsample.htm


----------



## ism (Dec 26, 2018)

ag75 said:


> I have looked through the forum but haven't been able to find this comparison. I am a sucker for solo string libraries. I already own CSSS but wanted to take advantage of the Christmas Wish Discount and pick up the SSS. How do these two libraries compare to one another? Also how does the Saconni String Quartet compare to both of these as well?





Goldie Zwecker said:


> How does the spitfire solo strings stack up to embertone's intimate strings? Specially Joshua bell violin, but not just.




I have JB and weighed CSSS very carefully against SsS and went with Spitfire in the end, and I really love it.

But they're all best in class libraries, so its very much a question of what you want to do - and of finding each libraries sweet spots.

CSSS absolutely nails a pristine studio sound out of the box. Like the JB is gets this smooth playability right out of the box but restricting you control over the dynamic arcs, and by baking in most of the expressiveness into the progressive vibrato. (Unless you could the simulated vibrato on the JB, which is ok, but I personally don't care for it).

Spitfire on the other had, is less pristine, and its not that it's less playable in the end so much as in letting you control the dynamics, it lets you play terrible sounding non-idiomatic lines - ie lines that would sound terrible on a real violin also).



I've been thinking a lot about this, and in quite a bit detail myself, for instance on this thread - which describes in some detail the nature of dynamic arcs, and how the differ so fundamentally from libraries like CSSS, JB and the Bohemians. 

https://vi-control.net/community/th...nal-violin-dislikes.77896/page-4#post-4329552


And there's quite a lot on these pages by myself and others working through the various solo strings libraries in detail.

But ultimately for solo strings, there are fundamental issues in physics which make them much, much more challenging that ensemble strings, for instance.

So I'd strongly encourage a bit reading up on not just how people feel aesthetically about different solo string libraries (although that's important too), but trying to understand what's going on in the design decisions underlying these libraries that makes they good for some things and terrible for others.

There's nothing worst that trying to writing something on the JB that needs be written one of the Spitfire violins, or vice versa. But buying Spitfire has renewed my love for the JB, precisely because I now know not to even attempt to use it for type of expressiveness that it was meant to do.


----------



## ionian (Dec 26, 2018)

I'm stuck in this same rut. I want to pick up a solo strings library. My original plan (lol at making plans) was that hopefully the companies I missed for Black Friday would repeat their sales for Xmas, but sadly they did not - I was going to pick up Hein solo strings and JB Violin. As neither of them had a sale, but I'd like to still pick up a Solo strings library my options are:

CSSS, since I have CSS I can get CSSS for $199 I think, so the price is good. It has a 2nd violin but no bass. It also makes it easier to layer as first desks by copying midi, although it seems like the vibrato is a love it or hate it thing.

SSS for 40% off at $239. It has a bass but no second violin but I get the virtuoso violin and some other patches so it kinda fills the role at the moment that hein and JB would have for me (at least until those two companies go back on sale and I can pick them up eventually).

Of course there's also the forthcoming Sample Modeling strings which I'm really waiting for. I'm a huge fan of their trumpet, trombone, and french horn so I'd love to see what they do with the strings. I'm not a fan of the sound of the SWAM strings (although I also find their saxes brilliant) - so it's nice to see someone else in the "wind controller" category tacking strings (or at least a company that knows how to integrate wind controllers into their patches fantastically). I primarily play keys but I also play sax and use a Yamaha WX5 to record brass and sax parts. Most of the big sample libraries have zero support for something like the WX5 so I can really appreciate it when a company knows how to integrate it fantastically. 

For the price, I'll probably just go with SSS because it's a limited time discount. I can always grab CSSS later. And either of these will probably suit me until Hein and JB go on sale - in which case I'll probably end up buying them and finding out that the gap between all these products is probably not as big as I thought and I didn't need them all...lol


----------



## AllanH (Dec 26, 2018)

I bought the Spitfire Solo Strings with the discount and had the CSSS from their release.

In all honesty, I'm having a difficult time getting along with the violins in Spitfire Solo Strings. I find the transitions between non-vib and vib jarring, so much so it's difficult to enjoy. To me, it almost sounds as if they were recorded with different microphone setup, which I'm sure is not the case. There is obviously the possibility of operator-error, but I have several Spitfire string instruments, that seems a bit unlikely.


----------



## ism (Dec 26, 2018)

AllanH said:


> I bought the Spitfire Solo Strings with the discount and had the CSSS from their release.
> 
> In all honesty, I'm having a difficult time getting long with the violins in Spitfire Solo Strings. I find the transitions between non-vib and vib jarring, so much so it's difficult to enjoy. To me, it almost sounds as if they were recorded with different microphone setup, which I'm sure is not the case. There is obviously the possibility of operator-error, but I have several Spitfire string instruments, that seems a bit unlikely.




Yep, the vibrato is absolutely the hardest thing about SsS. But first learning to work with the vibrato rally does pay dividends. 

And along with the above link (which is relevant to the vibrato), check out this thread:

https://vi-control.net/community/th...rned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-vibrato.74981/

Which describes a script to handle most of the vibrato for you ... I'm aiming to release this 'performance vibrato' script this week ... anytime from now ...


----------



## ionian (Dec 26, 2018)

AllanH said:


> I bought the Spitfire Solo Strings with the discount and had the CSSS from their release.
> 
> In all honesty, I'm having a difficult time getting long with the violins in Spitfire Solo Strings. I find the transitions between non-vib and vib jarring, so much so it's difficult to enjoy. To me, it almost sounds as if they were recorded with different microphone setup, which I'm sure is not the case. There is obviously the possibility of operator-error, but I have several Spitfire string instruments, that seems a bit unlikely.



Lol thanks for throwing a wrench in the machine. Maybe I'll just go for CSSS since it'll work easier with CSS on top of everything and just wait for JB to go on sale.


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 26, 2018)

AllanH said:


> I bought the Spitfire Solo Strings with the discount and had the CSSS from their release.
> 
> In all honesty, I'm having a difficult time getting long with the violins in Spitfire Solo Strings. I find the transitions between non-vib and vib jarring, so much so it's difficult to enjoy. To me, it almost sounds as if they were recorded with different microphone setup, which I'm sure is not the case. There is obviously the possibility of operator-error, but I have several Spitfire string instruments, that seems a bit unlikely.



If you’re using the total performance patch there’s a way to trigger only the progressive vibrato samples so you’ll actually get a recorded vibrato performance and not a cross faded one


----------



## fiction (Dec 26, 2018)

No one talks about the cinesamples when comparing these? They’re also on sale. I’m following this thread because I still couldn’t decide on a solo string library myself... I really enjoy the tone of the cinestrings much more but I understand that it comes at a cost of less expression and articulations..


----------



## ism (Dec 26, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> If you’re using the total performance patch there’s a way to trigger only the progressive vibrato samples so you’ll actually get a recorded vibrato performance and not a cross faded one


 
Yes, and this is lovely, I've been playing with it myself recently. And the progressive vibrato samples are there for the other instruments already (along with faster legato samples for the cello, reportedly) so there's good reason to hope for all the instruments to get this in the legatos, which will give it a much more out-of-the-box plonkability. 


But there's more going on here still ... it's still not as simple as CSSS. SsS wants you to craft performances, not just plonk in lines. I'd argue its still very playable - as long as you're playing a musically phrased line, and this takes a little practice and at least a minimal sense of idiomatic string phrasings. 

But in that CSSS and the JB have so much of the expression baked in, it gives you a superb plonkabilty. Plonk away on in like a piano, and its hard to make it sound bad. 

If I were a professional on a deadline, I guess this might be a valuable think. In practice I've often found that after the initial euphoria of having every note I plonk in sound so great on the JB were off a bit, realizing that I'm always getting the same expression on every note starts to drive me crazy. 

But after a bit of a learning curve, you have a great deal more expressive control with SsS, and can really craft performance at a level not possible in JB or CSSS - although not necessarily the same performances. 

So a direct comparison is still very hard. CSSS might be the next string library I pick up (or maybe Sacconi). 

They're all great, within their own sweet spots. 

And they all - equally - make you want to slam your head in a door when you try to craft lines outside of these sweet spots.


----------



## AllanH (Dec 26, 2018)

I think my first post got lost in the ether, so let me try again: I took the virtuoso violin and sustained an "a". I ran vibrato linearly from low to high and back down. I then took the vibrato through the two layers I can hear. To me, the highest-vibrato layer sounds markedly different than the non-vib and the first vib-layer.

I noticed the issue with the legato patches, but could more easily reproduce with the sustained articulation. I'd be curious to hear other's opinions; maybe this is how a real violin sounds!

EDIT: I realize that this is not natural violin playing - I am simply exposing what I hear the simplest way I can think of.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/virtuoso-vib-mp3.17453/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Soprano_Sundays (Dec 26, 2018)

CSSS is great at long legato lines in my opinion. And I think it has great detail.

Here is a small clip of something I mocked up a while ago.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/csss-mp3.17454/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## ism (Dec 26, 2018)

AllanH said:


> I think my first post got lost in the ether, so let me try again: I tool the virtuoso violin and sustained an a3. I ran vibrato linearly from low to high and back down. I then took the vibrato through the two layers I can hear. To me, the highest-vibrato layer sounds markedly different than the non-vib and the first vib-layer.
> 
> I noticed the issue with the legato patches, but could more easily reproduce with the sustained articulation. I'd be curious to hear other's opinions; maybe this is how a real violin sounds!
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/virtuoso-vib-mp3.17453/][/AUDIOPLUS]




It's really worth reading the manual in detail for the virtuosic Vl - there's a *lot* going on there including some very complex (apparently Kontakt time machine) related stuff going on with the vibrato.

The other think is that - and this is my experience exactly - that it really does sound terrible when you experiment like this. But I suspect that a real violin might actually sound like this - but I don't really know since, in practice, no violinist would ever play notes like this without also idiomatically crafting the expression of the arc, even on a single note.

I'm quoting these silly little noodles of mine all over the place, so maybe this is getting old. But I think maybe its worth stressing the point that you need to craft the phrase, and the vibrato is absolutely a key part of this. For instance (see the above link for more details) but here's the kind of arcs you can get:




And a more contextual noodle in which I beginning to play with this expressiveness in earnest:


----------



## ism (Dec 26, 2018)

Soprano_Sundays said:


> CSSS is great at long legato lines in my opinion. And I think it has great detail.
> 
> Here is a small clip of something I mocked up a while ago.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/csss-mp3.17454/][/AUDIOPLUS]



That's very nice. Very smooth, languorous, exactly the sort of think I'd like CSSS for. A real sweet spot.


----------



## AllanH (Dec 26, 2018)

ism said:


> It's really worth reading the manual in detail for the virtuosic Vl - there's a *lot* going on there including some very complex (apparently Kontakt time machine) related stuff going on with the vibrato.



Thank you for your thoughts and examples. I'll continue to experiment; I have not spent much time with the legato patches (or the manual!)


----------



## ism (Dec 26, 2018)

Yep - and the learning curve isn't actually all that bad. 

It's just that the cost of being able to craft some very fine performances is that you are allowed to plonk in some very terrible sounding lines. 

Which, if you think about it (and have ever heard a violinist practice) is its own dimension of 'realism'.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 26, 2018)

AllanH said:


> I think my first post got lost in the ether, so let me try again: I took the virtuoso violin and sustained an "a". I ran vibrato linearly from low to high and back down. I then took the vibrato through the two layers I can hear. To me, the highest-vibrato layer sounds markedly different than the non-vib and the first vib-layer.
> 
> I noticed the issue with the legato patches, but could more easily reproduce with the sustained articulation. I'd be curious to hear other's opinions; maybe this is how a real violin sounds!
> 
> ...


You need to shape the vibrato along with the shaping of the note. What's unnatural here is the exclusive focus on the vibrato of the note without taking into account the rest of how that A would sound over an extended period of time (you get the prebaked rebows but that's it). If the vibrato doesn't match the shape of the note it will sound strange. As @ism says, the instrument allows itself to sound bad. So in exposed passages you have to move the modwheel and vibrato in a coordinated fashion—not that they move the same way but that vibrato and dynamics interact so you have to attend to the interaction, the instrument won't do it for you (until @ism gives us his script). (The virtuoso violin uses the progressive vibrato longs so it requires somewhat less attention than the other instruments, especially in context, but it still requires some attention in exposed passages.)


----------



## ism (Dec 26, 2018)

Ok, stopping my theorizing about solo strings ... and going to finish that script tonight ...


----------



## Hans Josef (Apr 23, 2019)

ag75 said:


> Also *Xsample Extended Edition Solo Strings sound amazing to me. But I can't make heads or tails of the website. Great sounding quartet library though.*



Please tell me what's the problem with the Xsample website.


----------



## Hans Josef (Apr 28, 2019)

bump


----------



## Jophus (Aug 12, 2020)

whats the move here? with the 40% edu discount on SSoS, is it more worth it thn CSSS ya think? trying to snag my first solo strings library


----------



## ism (Aug 13, 2020)

Jophus said:


> is it more worth it thn CSSS ya think? trying to snag my first solo strings library


----------

