# Dark Side of the Moon and ???



## JonFairhurst (Aug 23, 2015)

Recently, I've been playing with the setup and acoustics in a room I'm remodeling and have been listening to various music to test things out. In the process, I've come to a conclusion...

Nothing compares to Dark Side of the Moon.

Yeah, there are amazing, natural recordings of classical, jazz and other acoustic music. But they strive to deliver reality, not go beyond it. There's lots of straight-ahead rock and roll and pop, but much of it is just bass, drums, guitars, voices, etc with a beat and a hook. Once again, there are wonderful recordings, but it doesn't necessarily take you to the next level. We have hip hop with deep beats and dubstep with heavy industrial sounds, but once they find a level of power, the music starts repeating itself.

Dark Side, on the other hand, delivers an amazing collection of unique sounds that go down to the dream level and build dramatically to single moments that punch the gut. The image of the soundstage is brilliant, and the bass goes as deep as your system can deliver. Whether you have a flat system that goes down to 20 Hz or cheap speakers with a big 80 Hz peak, the power notes rip.

Even more surprising, the music has remained unique. You don't hear "70's rock and roll" genre cliche when it plays. And even with all the synths, it didn't age like '80s New Wave. ("Whip it Good!")

More amazing still is that it was all accomplished with analog tape and effects. ("There is no dark side of the Moon. It's all dark, really.")

I remember some audiophiles playing Peter Gabriel in the '80s to demo their systems. But the bass on those albums was so restrained. I think engineers figured out that stereo builders were hyping the mid bass rather than extending the deep bass, so they started avoiding the deep punch.

Anyway, are there other albums or songs that people play to really enjoy their audio technology? Not great natural recordings, but stuff that builds and rips with satisfying deep bass? Stuff that goes beyond acoustic instruments and beyond the cliches of genre?

Anyway, I've got nothing. It's no surprise that Dark Side is one of the best selling albums ever - and certainly the greatest concept album of all time.


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## Saxer (Aug 23, 2015)

when it's about the bass: donald fagen - morph the cat


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## Soundhound (Aug 24, 2015)

A Morph The Cat reference!!! The bass and groove of that song just kill me. But back to DSOTM: Yes. It was great when I was a teenager stoned out of my head looking at Jupiter through a telescope with our astronomy teacher, and it's great now stone cold sober. What a beautiful record.


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## chimuelo (Aug 24, 2015)

Great production that raised the bar for others as well.
Actually made Yes spend over a year on Close To The Edge.
Listen closely you'll notice Time and also And You And I had vocals in the Leslie.
George Martin and Lennon loved the doppler effect too.
Actually heard FOH engineers using a LARC with a Lexicon 960L using dual instances of the Doppler Algo making a simulated Leslie that turned into a sound that I still cant get.
It was amazing as thier Doppler could also alter depth and pitch as if the Leslie was on a train passing by...


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## SergeD (Aug 24, 2015)

Speaking of George Martin, he also produced the Apocalypse album https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_(Mahavishnu_Orchestra_album),
recorded with a symphonic orchestra.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 25, 2015)

Morph the Cat rocks! I need to get a good (uncompressed) copy.

BTW, I looked at Rolling Stone's greatest 500 album list and Dark Side was only #43. (Huh?) 
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/500-greatest-albums-of-all-time-20120531/pink-floyd-the-dark-side-of-the-moon-20120524

According to Wikipedia, it's #3 for all time record sales behind Michael Jackson's Thriller (no surprise) and AC/DC's Back in Black (Wha?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums

Ahh, Close to the Edge. I've got it on CD and DVD-Audio Disc. The main difference in the media is the precision of the sound stage, but if you're not in the sweet spot, the CD sounds just as good. Doesn't have the punch of DSOM and I find the music to wander a bit at times, whereas DSOM enters more of a zen state. It's a fine line isn't it!

I'll need to check out Apocalypse too. I enjoyed the similar sound of Brand X but never bought Mahavishnu Orchestra's albums back in the day.

So, three album mentions. There has to be more, doesn't there? (Then again, I got nothin'.)


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## chimuelo (Aug 25, 2015)

M.Gilson Thomas with the London Symphony was awesome.
Gail Morans Rhodes work was great.
She had a certain style that complimented McLaughlins modal style of playing.

I have a DVD set of Close to The Edge that includes arrangements and tracks never released that sound awful. But nice to see they were human.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 25, 2015)

Not an album, but two songs that impressed me with the power and production you mention- Black Hole Sun by Soundgarden, and Sowing the Seeds of Love by Tears for Fears. Never heard either sound bad on any system.

And anything by Jeff Lynne, especially most of the ELO stuff. Mister Blue Skies per exemplum.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 25, 2015)

Funny that you mention ELO. Back in the day, I bought a "Best of ELO" album (on vinyl) that was remastered terribly. There were no bass or dynamics whatsoever. I don't know why they bothered pressing it. I later saw them live, but thick sound + poor acoustics = mud. 

I've read a few people praising ELO and their mixes. My brain says, "keep an open mind", but my heart says, "Next..." 

I'll check out Black Hole Sun and Sowing the Seeds of Love...

Regarding live sound, I saw Pink Floyd's The Wall concert. As I recall, they only performed it in New York and LA. While in line, there were religious people begging us not to attend this sinful event. Yeah right! 

The venue was the LA Sports Arena, which was an absolute echo box. Yet... the sound was amazing. Rather than just FOH speakers, they had speaker arrays surrounding the venue with finely tuned delays. Even while sitting way off to the side in the upper level (about 1/3 back), the sound was the best I had ever heard there by miles. Great music. Great performance. Great stagecraft. A true spectacle. 

Back on topic...
Come to think of it, another '70s popular sound test album was Edgar Winter's They Only Come Out at Night. I had a Quadraphonic version of that album when it first came out. It was probably the top-played album at Pacific Stereo. I remember the drum solo from Frankenstein bouncing from speaker to speaker. I should get a new copy to hear if it was a great recording, or just a multi-speaker novelty.


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## Farkle (Aug 25, 2015)

There are a couple of albums that I absolutely love the production of. Funny enough, they are all from the 70's. Something about that time period... 

Yes, Dark Side of the Moon is one I'll put on my stereo, sit back with a bourbon, and just enjoy the sonic awesomeness and production of it.

Fragile, by Yes, is another one. Mixed a bit more trebl'y, probably because Squire (rest his soul) was always up higher in the frequencies, and Bill Bruford was definitely a jazz drummer, so the mix probably reflected their playing style. But, listening to Heart of the Sunrise, where Rick comes in with the Mellotron strings under Chris's pentatonic bass groove... mmm! 

Of course, no list would be complete without Aja (Steely Dan). I put that album on about once a month, it's so sonically tasty. My wife thinks its' weird music, but what does she know, she listens to country.... 

And, just because I love how beautifully layered the vocals are, I'll listen to Trick of the Tail (Genesis). A bit fuller in the mix, more "fairy-tale" style mixing (ethereal, mysterious), but hearing a young Phil Collins singing, those layered vocals, so nicely set in the mix (especially "Entangled")... I could sit and listen to that for hours.

OH! And, I always felt that Rush's Moving Pictures was an 80's analogue to the Dark Side of the Moon. Moving Pictures had that open, wide mix sound, deep punchy kick drum and bass, and just that sense of clarity in the mix. I used to tune my studio to Limelight... 

There. Four great albums that you should all go and listen to. 

Mike


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 25, 2015)

I like your taste, Mike. I have each of those CDs. (And my collection isn't all that big.)

Another good one is Supertramp's Crime of the Century - especially "Bloody Well Right". The song starts with a light, playful electric piano solo that is eventually punctuated with unison hits, bringing it all together when the sax launches the lead-in to the body of the piece.

Ahh, the 70s. Analog tape. Vinyl. Headroom. No loudness wars to kill dynamic range. Back then, heavy compression was for radio stations, not recording studios. And we listened to music on big stereos with 12- and 15-inch woofers, not ear buds.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 25, 2015)

I see that Crime of the Century was the first pop album released by Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Fidelity_Sound_Lab#The_LP_era.2C_1977_to_1985

Other albums noted by that Wiki Article include:
* Steely Dan - Katy Lied
* George Benson - Breezin'
* Fleetwood Mac - Second Album
* Pink Floyd - DSOM
* The Beatles - Box Set
* Sinatra - Box Set
* Rolling Stones - Box Set
* Queen - A Night at the Opera


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## dpasdernick (Aug 25, 2015)

Dark Side of the Moon... If you don't cry during the sax solo intro to Us and Them you aren't human. Simply one of the best albums ever made. 

BTW Anyone here a fan of The Final Cut? I hear so many bad reviews but I personally think it is a masterpiece.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 25, 2015)

JonFairhurst said:


> Morph the Cat rocks! I need to get a good (uncompressed) copy.
> 
> BTW, I looked at Rolling Stone's greatest 500 album list and Dark Side was only #43. (Huh?)
> http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/500-greatest-albums-of-all-time-20120531/pink-floyd-the-dark-side-of-the-moon-20120524



Or as I like to call them, Grohling Stone mag, as Dave is in every issue.

If you ever want a serious laugh, check out the "500 worst Rolling Stone reviews", posted by some dude-it's hilarious. Some of your favorite albums are bound to be on the list, being trashed by know nothing "critics."


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## chimuelo (Aug 26, 2015)

A worthless mag desperately trying regain relevance.


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## scarred bunny (Aug 26, 2015)

NYC Composer said:


> If you ever want a serious laugh, check out the "500 worst Rolling Stone reviews", posted by some dude-it's hilarious. Some of your favorite albums are bound to be on the list, being trashed by know nothing "critics."



Haha, I just started eyeing through that list. Good thing we have Grohling Stone mag to inform us that Sgt Pepper is a creatively diminished and stiff collection of less-than-great tunes. Could have fooled me  

Great read, thanks for posting!


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 26, 2015)

Great sounding album, just wish I actually liked the music more.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 26, 2015)

I should mention Dark Side of the Rainbow or The Wizard of Floyd where DSOM and Wizard of Oz are sync'd. It doesn't match up exactly, but when it does, it's really sweet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Side_of_the_Rainbow

And maybe this is why I can't find another album that rivals DSOM. It's like finding a movie that has the same level of fantasy, characters, songs, sets, costumes, innocence, and magic as Wizard of Oz. Such a film doesn't exist. Give Spielberg an infinite budget and he wouldn't be able to match it: It would either be a copy, derivative, or too different. You just can't capture 1939 seventy six year later. And maybe you don't even like the film (or DSOM's music, as in Jay's case), but you can't help but respect it as technically advanced for its time as well as iconic.

Maybe The Matrix is our modern Oz. No, it's not innocent and it isn't a musical, but it presents iconic characters in both real and fantasy worlds. (Dorothy is The One. Agent Smith is a Wicked Witch. Zion is at the end of the Yellow Brick Road.) Likewise, maybe the modern DSOM is in a completely different genre. It's probably something that old farts like me would never think to hear.

And it begs the question, if you were to produce a modern album with the impact of DSOM but with a completely different approach, how would it sound? But also, is there an audience out there who would even care?


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## Rctec (Aug 26, 2015)

JonFairhurst said:


> I like your taste, Mike. I have each of those CDs. (And my collection isn't all that big.)
> 
> Another good one is Supertramp's Crime of the Century - especially "Bloody Well Right". The song starts with a light, playful electric piano solo that is eventually punctuated with unison hits, bringing it all together when the sax launches the lead-in to the body of the piece.
> 
> Ahh, the 70s. Analog tape. Vinyl. Headroom. No loudness wars to kill dynamic range. Back then, heavy compression was for radio stations, not recording studios. And we listened to music on big stereos with 12- and 15-inch woofers, not ear buds.


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## Rctec (Aug 26, 2015)

Anything by Ken Scott holds up as masterpiece recordings:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Scott

And than there is my current favorite, Steve Lipson..."Frankie Goes To Hollywood", Grace Jones - "Slave to the rhythm", Jeff beck...

All these engineers are still great and one phonecall away. It's so worth getting them for even a tiny project.
Steve Lipson, Johnny Marr and I just did a tiny, independent movie with no budget, but Steve made it sound great!

I got my first job with George Martin, which was a great learning curve in engineering and sound...

...and Films scores? Has anyone ever beaten the sound of an Eric Thomlinson?

If people think about the "Hollywood Sound", they actually mean London: Starwars, Raiders, Laurence of Arabia, Bond, Lord of the rings, The Mission, Chariots Of Fire, Danny Elfman's "Batman", even "Gladiator" and "Inception"...


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## Rctec (Aug 26, 2015)

And than there is always Shawn Murphy. I a class of his own!


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 26, 2015)

For me, maybe the Moody Blues "Days Of Future Past".


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## wst3 (Aug 26, 2015)

surprised no one has mentioned pretty much anything from the genius of George Massenburg, some of the Little Feat stuff is at the top of my list, but so too is EWF and the Rankin Family. Just brilliant production of some really cool music.

However, even they can't compare to DSOM for pure listening enjoyment.

Yes, early Genesis, some Steely Dan, all good stuff. For system evaluation I also return to any of the audiophool versions of any of the Manheim Steamroller albums.

There are a lot of great recordings of great music, and the 70s seem to hold a special place for me.


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## chimuelo (Aug 26, 2015)

I got a soft spot for 8 tracks still.
Have a great sounding rack for my man cave with
a real Tube Pre Amp.
I think its the imperfection of distortion that crept into old albums and 8 tracks we miss...
I play 8 tracks at my pool parties of Johnny Cash and old one hit wonders. Folks always comment on how deep the 8 tracks sound.


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## cc64 (Aug 26, 2015)

Great sounding albums.

In no particular order.

Dire Straits Brothers in Arms (Neil Dorfsman Eng.)
Steely Dan Gaucho and in the same vein Fagen's Nightfly (Roger Nichols)
Everything produced by Trevor Horn (this man has ears of gold)
Peter Gabriel's So
U2 Achtung Baby


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Aug 26, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> For me, maybe the Moody Blues "Days Of Future Past".



Indeed! Love that album. I also agree about Yes, Close to the Edge, Fagen and Supertramp. 8-Track tapes had a narrow tape width per channel but with a very thick tape base, hence more bass. The real magic behind Dark Side of the Moon was the engineer, Alan Parsons. He just did an album with Steven Wilson that is superb!


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## patrick76 (Aug 26, 2015)

Wow I am really having a difficult time finding something that can compare with DSOM. Like most on this thread I agree there is definitely something about the sound of rock music from the 70's that stands out. I absolutely love the drum sound from that era. 

Also, for film scores, the sound of Gladiator really is fantastic. Especially lovely is the part in "Progeny" at 1:19 when the guitar part comes in. There is such an ethereal sense of space and color in that brief section.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 26, 2015)

cc64 said:


> Great sounding albums.
> 
> In no particular order.
> 
> ...


 
Bigtime agreement on Nightfly (one of the greatest albums of all time), Gaucho and So.


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 27, 2015)

Yes, all the Steely Dan and Dire Straits stuff is beautifully recorded.


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 27, 2015)

A key aspect that sets DSOM apart is the repetitive rhythms and sounds that constantly evolve to evoke a dream-like state. There are many albums of great "songs" that are recorded beautifully, but few great recordings of extended ambient sequences that feel so good.

Often, artists go into random or noise territory when they depart from a song structure. The music gets too thick and loses focus. Or it gets repetitive and dull. Consider the loops of Jon Anderson's "We Have Heaven" on Fragile. Or the Grateful Dead Space Jam-like ramblings at the start of the 2nd side of Thick as a Brick. On the other hand, DSOM always seems completely purposeful - just when the music starts to get stale, the listener gets treated to Easter eggs like "_I've always been mad, I know I've been mad..."
_
Maybe one of the closest comparisons is the organ sequence in We Won't Get Fooled Again. Yes, it has a beat and it's got a western music basis, but it's also hypnotizing with a sublime combination of repetition and movement. It also has drama in that it builds, the toms add power, and it crescendos with the full band and a scream. It's not thick or random. It presents a continuous line of focus. And it doesn't sound like anything ever recorded before. Maybe Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor is the baroque predecessor of DSOM. Can you imagine how fully that would have blown early eighteenth century minds?


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## dpasdernick (Aug 28, 2015)

Rctec said:


> Anything by Ken Scott holds up as masterpiece recordings:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Scott
> 
> And than there is my current favorite, Steve Lipson..."Frankie Goes To Hollywood", Grace Jones - "Slave to the rhythm", Jeff beck...
> 
> ...




Ken Scott! Ziggy Stardust. Impeccable. Aladdin Sane. My favorite album of all time. I was 12 when it came out. I listened to nothing else for a whole year.


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## Rctec (Aug 29, 2015)

Roger Waters, "Amused to Death"... As close as you can come to an audio movie. I have the cd, but they just re-released it in 5.1 blue ray (for good reason! ). ...plus, the best lyrics about Andrew Loyd Webber ever


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## creativeforge (Aug 30, 2015)

Dark Side of the Moon is timeless in every direction... 

Genesis - Firth of Fifth on 'Selling England by the Pound,' Dire Strait's Heavy Fuel, Peter Gabriel's 'Us.'


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## Jdiggity1 (Aug 30, 2015)

Anybody get the 'Amused To Death' remaster? Was it necessary?
http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/...ces-newly-remixed-version-of-amused-to-death/

Edit: overlooked rctec's post. Might have to grab a copy.


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## creativeforge (Aug 30, 2015)

Yes, magnificent move on his part, I had never heard of it...  Plus, the story behind it and his intentions are very needed...


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## JonFairhurst (Aug 31, 2015)

I had been meaning to add Amused to Death to this thread. Fantastic recording and probably the best soundstage presentation I've ever heard from stereo playback of recorded music. Surround sound from two speakers.


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## chimuelo (Aug 31, 2015)

I might check that out. Last night I noticed during the 300 I was hearing shit thrown around the room like never before. But I rarely watch regular cable, just happened to drop after hours of playing/programming and saw it just started.
Netflix is so much fun I then went to the original 300 with Richard Egan circa 1960s.
What a great score but sounding like mono after hearing the latest one.
Cant believe I can actually sit there and enjoy such corny crap...
But I always trust and respect you opinions and ideas JF so I shall try to remember this after another evening of incorporating new hardware, freeing up yet more DSP and CPU power...


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