# Building a PC.



## Viegaard (Jan 11, 2017)

Hello!

I am currently using my gaming computer to also run Cubase Pro 9. But I have been thinking about getting a seperate computer, just for music production.

The list of hardware I need (a full build):

-> Motherboard: ?
-> CPU: ?
-> Memory: ?
-> GFX (Leaning towards onboard)
-> PSU: ?
-> Tower/Cabinet: ?
-> OS/Cubase SSD: *Samsung 850 Pro 256GB 2.5"*
-> Sample SSD: ?
-> Cooling: ?

I feel I have the skill to pick a decent PSU, tower, SSD and cooling. But where I fall short is the motherboard, cpu and memory.

The reason I am not 100% sure is; I know that a motherboards onboard devices can cause latency issues (the drivers for the devices). Same with the CPU some are just not suited for real-time processing of audio, and finally the memory - I have no idea what stepping etc - I know it should be DDR4, but not what stepping etc.

So how do I go about finding a motherboard, a CPU and some sticks of memory that will suit my needs?

I will update the list once I start picking (with the help of you lot) products.

Thanks in advice, Viegaard.


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## passsacaglia (Jan 11, 2017)

CPU: The new i7 7700k?!
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/VKx9TW/intel-core-i7-7700k-42ghz-quad-core-processor-bx80677i77700k

And supportive motherboard Z270 from Asus, MSI or ASRock. Great for overclocking too I've heard. This swedish article boosted a stable 4.9GHz and some 5.0GHz. That plus a lot of ram and the multithreading would def. be a good grand slam to your production.
http://wccftech.com/asus-z270-motherboard-lineup-leaked/

http://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/Z270 Killer SLIac/

...or go 6 core +


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## Viegaard (Jan 11, 2017)

passsacaglia said:


> CPU: The new i7 7700k?!
> https://pcpartpicker.com/product/VKx9TW/intel-core-i7-7700k-42ghz-quad-core-processor-bx80677i77700k
> 
> And supportive motherboard Z270 from Asus. Great for overclocking too I've heard. This swedish article boosted a stable 4.9GHz and some 5.0GHz. That plus a lot of ram and the multithreading would def. be a good grand slam to your production.
> ...



I kinda dont want to overclock. 

I will look into those 2. What about ram/memory? What stepping/CAL should it be?


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## passsacaglia (Jan 11, 2017)

Dunno about good ram's for PC but I know for sure there are ppl here with better knowledge 
Love builds. Just knew the Kaby's were out and the base clock is 4.2 (Skylake's turbo freq) and up to 4.5, that's insane and 4 cores (8 threads) is absolutely enough for the average user I think! Depending on your needs. You can always go 64GB ram and that sould be fine. Don't know if the 6 or more cores matter That much compared to the GHz's but...myself just ordered an iMac with the 4.0 skylake, and I think I'll be fine. But I'm sure there are great 6 core alternatives for you too, maybe that's where the pro's advice will be...we'll see! That was just my 2c's.

Otherwise I'd go i7 6850k (128GB ram supportive) but I know ppl here also prefers the 5820K, also read ppl have used 128GB of ram with it. If you only planning for 1 super master one. Personally I'd go with 7700K and 64GB ram and play cool with that.


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## ZeroZero (Jan 11, 2017)

As far as mobo's go, X99 is a must really. Asus and Gigabyte are the market leaders. I have used Asus for many years and they have never failed. Asus's support site can be a bit of a labrinth though, but manageable. If you are intending to record in the same room think about fans. Don't use a big graphics card, a standard one will do and some of these are fanless. I have no experience with on board graphics, but would not confine my mobo choice according to this feature. 
I use only one fan above the cpu and that is fine here. For Cubase they say that 6 cores is optimum, but I could not explain this to you. I use a 5820 CPU and I am really pleased with my performance. I use Vengeance DDR4, I don't think you need super dooper RAM, the difference would be trivial (IMO). Do get lots of it, 32 gig is what I use, but you could go even more than this. Using the bigger sticks will give you upgradeability, but make sure that your MOBO supports them - some do not. 
I used this case http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/In-Win-GT1-USB-3-0-Toolless-Midi-Tower-Gaming-Case-with-Red-LED-Fan-Black-/162177993703?hash=item25c28fcbe7:g:UJYAAOSw0UdXvADn

It is tooless and lets me see inside. There are probably better, but it has slidable drive bays, and a nice USB front panel. 

For a sample SSD I used an M.2 slot Samsung 961. This costs about 15% mor than the top of the line Samsung Pro SSDs but frankly, it is silly fast about seven times as fast as any SSD (including the 950 pro). There is also the 960 pro which is a consumer model, its a little more price wise and a little slower - by some benchmarks. What you need is fast random reads from your sample drive.
If I were to build again I would use two Samsung 961 M.2s. One 500 gb for the OP, and a tb drive for samples. You can put in two M.2's in a system by using cards. Such a system would be blisteringly fast, loading windows in 3 seconds I hear. You may wish to consider a tiny SSD for writing your CPRs to - this is cheap these days.


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## ZeroZero (Jan 11, 2017)

On the subject of cores, I think that Cubase does utilise six cores well and things do run faster with more cores. Some users do report that more than six cores works less well. I find my PC very fast indeed, and with no spikes. 

Z


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## Viegaard (Jan 11, 2017)

ZeroZero said:


> On the subject of cores, I think that Cubase does utilise six cores well and things do run faster with more cores. Some users do report that more than six cores works less well. I find my PC very fast indeed, and with no spikes.
> 
> Z



So just the regular ASUS X99? Or the X99-A? Or X99-A II?

And the memory - Doesnt it matter what stepping it is?


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## passsacaglia (Jan 11, 2017)

@ZeroZero just a quickie, do you know if the 4K random reads or the 128K random read is the most important, 128K perhaps?


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## ZeroZero (Jan 11, 2017)

I don't know much about stepping. I do know my build above would be crazy fast. I have the build, apart from the OP SSD, I think it is enough for anything, even big template mockups. 
If I recall the X99's only had usb3 whilst the A's have usb 3.1 (which is significantly faster, eight times, I think. Some have thunderbolt. Firewire is dead. With Mobos it is always best to get the latest versions (if you are pursuing performance), but you don't need the super gamers versions, or hot graphics support. Number of ports, slots, sata connections is important, if you want to put in your old drives, and connect a lot of gear. 

Z


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## ZeroZero (Jan 11, 2017)

http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/1937-asus-x99-motherboard-comparison


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## ZeroZero (Jan 11, 2017)

passsacaglia said:


> @ZeroZero just a quickie, do you know if the 4K random reads or the 128K random read is the most important, 128K perhaps?


No I dont. I do know that I was advised by a knowleagable person to format my drive for 64kb allocation units.
you might find this thread interesting and you can ask here: 
http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/1937-asus-x99-motherboard-comparison


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## URL (Jan 11, 2017)

I can report that I7 6-core is great and works well for CB, I use Asus x99 ii deluxe on one and X99A/Xeon on my other that I use as slave and 64 ram. I have so much power now comparatively to my old Mac that have been downgraded to Apple-slave, it works well and no hard feelings from Apple...


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## ZeroZero (Jan 11, 2017)

Just a note: I hear there is a new slot coming out - better than i.7. I have not checked this out, I think they have two extra pins??
but make sure there is nothing coming soon from intel. Kaby Lake:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/new-product/pc-components/7th-gen-intel-core-kaby-lake-release-date-price-specs-rumours-now-shipping-3641491/


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## ZeroZero (Jan 11, 2017)

http://wccftech.com/intel-x299-chipset-skylake-x-kaby-lake-x/


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## Karsten Vogt (Jan 11, 2017)

My 2 cents:

The PSU becomes way less important. CPU and GPU getting way more efficient, HDDs getting swapped for SSDs consuming less power. Get a PSU from a reliable manufacturer. The most important part for me would be noise here like from bad fans and coil whining. Enermax was great, had some quality issues but is back on path now with solid PSUs. Just like SuperFlower and some others. 500+W should be sufficient.

Concerning mainboard: get one without all the clutter like bluetooth, wifi and stuff. Every component cuts down realtime calculation performance and increases latency. Asus with X99 is a very good choice like the X99-E (no bluetooth, no wi-fi).

Memory selection concerning CAS latency and timings is pretty much overrated especially if you are not overclocking. Just get stuff from a decent reliable manufacturer (like Kingston, Corsair, et al) which fits your mainboard's specs. I predict you won't notice the 1-2% performance difference.

CPU: check https://ark.intel.com/compare/97129,82932
IMHO the Intel 5820K is the best bang for the buck: more cores and (most important): almost doubled cache. Modern DAWs use all the cores they can get. This all depends on your needs and the software you use.

Tower: pick what you like as long as it meets your board's specs (ATX). You might want to look for silenced towers with intelligent air flows for cooling.

GPU: internal is ok. I'd pick an Nvidia GTX1050 for maximum output options. These operate noiseless when no 3D stuff has to get worked on.

CPU cooler: http://noctua.at/en/nh-d15.html even quieter than most all in one watercooling solutions. Looks like a monster but works great.

Fans: Noctua. Love the stuff these guys build.

I'd focus on reliability and noise first. For me Asus board, Kingston RAM, Intel CPU with Noctua cooler has been a pretty good solution.


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## khollister (Jan 11, 2017)

The problem with a lot of power supplies is noise (fan and coil whine) and reliability. For my latest machine I chose an EVGA Titanium due to reputation, semi-passive design (fan only runs at higher loads) and fully modular design (no extra cables lying about). EVGA was recommended by Pete of Scan UK over at Gearslutz (among others) as being outstanding as far as reliability these days. 

I haven't looked at the new Z270 MB's, but one thing you need to figure out is whether you want Thunderbolt or not. Gigabyte typically has several models with TB 3 directly on the MB with no additional PCI card. Asus uses add in cards for TB. MSI has not supported TB at all and ASRock typically is spotty with only TB 2 so far. Asus and Gigabyte are the big dogs - I have one of each. My Asus X79 BIOS is more complex with way more things to potentially screw up than my X99 Gigabyte BIOS if that matters. Both work fine with very low latencies once all the extra crap is turned off.

You do want Intel ethernet NIC's, not RealTek or Killer, so check that. 

I use the Corsair LPX (low profile) RAM because it interferes less with the CPU cooler. Don't spend money on high speed RAM to overclock - it won't make any significant difference for audio work. 

The issue isn't so much whether a 4 core CPU is enough, but whether you have enough PCIe lanes for all of the peripherals you want to connect. While SATA and USB ports are "free" (handled by the chipset), M.2/U.2 SSD ports take 4 lanes each, TB 3 takes 4 lanes and if you want a discrete graphics card for video processing or gaming, that is a minimum of 8 lanes. Since the 6700/7700 series of CPU's only have 16 lanes, you can quickly find yourself maxed out if you get into multiple M.2 PCIe SSD's or heavyweight video cards. If you stick to a couple M.2 SSD's and no video card beyond the integrated graphics in the 7700, you will be fine. 

Noctua is the "safe" go-to for CPU coolers and case fans - very high quality and extremely quiet, although a bit more expensive.

I use Fractal R4 cases (have 2) - very solid, quiet (have internal sound deading) and discrete looking.

If you use the integrated graphics (which is fine for a DAW unless you need a bunch of screens), pay attention to how your particular MB is connectorized - HDMI and DVI are normal, some have DisplyPort. Not all support [email protected] Hz.


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## Viegaard (Jan 11, 2017)

khollister said:


> The problem with a lot of power supplies is noise (fan and coil whine) and reliability. For my latest machine I chose an EVGA Titanium due to reputation, semi-passive design (fan only runs at higher loads) and fully modular design (no extra cables lying about). EVGA was recommended by Pete of Scan UK over at Gearslutz (among others) as being outstanding as far as reliability these days.
> 
> I haven't looked at the new Z270 MB's, but one thing you need to figure out is whether you want Thunderbolt or not. Gigabyte typically has several models with TB 3 directly on the MB with no additional PCI card. Asus uses add in cards for TB. MSI has not supported TB at all and ASRock typically is spotty with only TB 2 so far. Asus and Gigabyte are the big dogs - I have one of each. My Asus X79 BIOS is more complex with way more things to potentially screw up than my X99 Gigabyte BIOS if that matters. Both work fine with very low latencies once all the extra crap is turned off.
> 
> ...



I agree. I want a somewhat noiseless computer. But I dont record any live audio. I work 100% within the "box". So a little noise doesnt annoy me.


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## Viegaard (Jan 11, 2017)

ZeroZero said:


> As far as mobo's go, X99 is a must really. Asus and Gigabyte are the market leaders. I have used Asus for many years and they have never failed. Asus's support site can be a bit of a labrinth though, but manageable. If you are intending to record in the same room think about fans. Don't use a big graphics card, a standard one will do and some of these are fanless. I have no experience with on board graphics, but would not confine my mobo choice according to this feature.
> I use only one fan above the cpu and that is fine here. For Cubase they say that 6 cores is optimum, but I could not explain this to you. I use a 5820 CPU and I am really pleased with my performance. I use Vengeance DDR4, I don't think you need super dooper RAM, the difference would be trivial (IMO). Do get lots of it, 32 gig is what I use, but you could go even more than this. Using the bigger sticks will give you upgradeability, but make sure that your MOBO supports them - some do not.
> I used this case http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/In-Win-GT1-USB-3-0-Toolless-Midi-Tower-Gaming-Case-with-Red-LED-Fan-Black-/162177993703?hash=item25c28fcbe7:g:UJYAAOSw0UdXvADn
> 
> ...



Isnt that case super noisy with all those "air docks" - I was thinking about finding a closed design to keep the noise at a somewhat low level.


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## khollister (Jan 11, 2017)

Viegaard said:


> Isnt that case super noisy with all those "air docks" - I was thinking about finding a closed design to keep the noise at a somewhat low level.



The optional side and top fan openings have insulated covers that install from the inside, so no.


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## Tysmall (Jan 11, 2017)

Wait for zen to come out before buying anything intel. Not only could they be a gamechanger, but intel *will* drop their prices in response. I'm planning on building a zen slave if they aren't all just marketing hype.


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## Vanni (Jan 11, 2017)

Im building a slave, will be using a fanless PSU of around 500w. My understanding is that without a demanding graphic card power requirement should be below 400w, no need for the monstrous 800+W PSUs needed for typical gaming setups.
Hope not to be wrong


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## ZeroZero (Jan 11, 2017)

Viegaard said:


> Isnt that case super noisy with all those "air docks" - I was thinking about finding a closed design to keep the noise at a somewhat low level.


Not really - acoustically most cases have as much sound damping as a paper bag. My system is not noisy, and I do not do a lot of audio recording


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## Karsten Vogt (Jan 11, 2017)

This is my new rig:
https://www.mindfactory.de/shopping...221438d028ace7449ba8f53bc4abaa4099467874dd684

I'm still struggling with the fanless PSU which might lead to more heat.

I needed a computer which is more portable than my big tower.


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## tokatila (Jan 11, 2017)

Karsten Vogt said:


> This is my new rig:
> https://www.mindfactory.de/shopping...221438d028ace7449ba8f53bc4abaa4099467874dd684
> 
> I'm still struggling with the fanless PSU which might lead to more heat.
> ...



Why the discreet graphics adapter may I ask?


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## Karsten Vogt (Jan 11, 2017)

The CPU i chose got no GPU.


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## ZeroZero (Jan 12, 2017)

Looks good. I have a similar system and it's fast and smooth - I think you will be more than happy.You have a lot of fans. You might try using less, (ditch the case fan) I get by with the CPU fan and the PSU fan, my graphics card being fanless. No issues with temperature here. If...your recording live in the same room


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## Karsten Vogt (Jan 12, 2017)

I got the Recon fan control front module to turn off fans.


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## tokatila (Jan 12, 2017)

Karsten Vogt said:


> The CPU i chose got no GPU.



Of course, sorry about my laziness to check the mobo.

Edit - And of course I meant CPU. Geez, time for a daytime nap.


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