# Question for big music theory guys



## ChasingTheSun_Jeff (Nov 6, 2005)

Howdy all! I've been trying to get my theory understanding improved and I had a question about modes. Could anyone comment on the moods achieved of using these different mode scales in your music? I would love some tips in this realm. :D 

Thanks guys!


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## StrangeCat (Nov 6, 2005)

do not write the whole piece in one mode but use different themes and ideas in different modes to add more color and contrasting harmony^_*
Becareful of Chords that define major and minor in the scale. 
Of course this depends on the style you want and what kind of music we are talking about? Celtic Music using one mode, a jazz piece in one mode with contrasting middle section solo part etc.


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## fictionmusic (Nov 6, 2005)

Heya

If you mean just the ecclesiastical modes than there are some pretty obvious moods:

Ionian is pretty dull in and of itself. It may be alright for little sunny moments but it is one that tires easily. The harmonies derived from it are excellent for resolution chords though.

The second mode is Dorian and it is excellent in a jazz setting as a ubiquitous scale against a minor chord. Because it has a natural sixth (unlike a natural minor which has a flattened sixth) it has more of a rise and is closely related to a mixo mode for solos. Almost all II chords in jazz assume the use of a dorian scale.

The third scale the phrygian is especially favoured in Flamenco music and is probably a safe first bet to get that flavour. It is also an excellent scale to extend a minor chord as it has the b3rd and b6th but also has a b2. Sometimes it is excellent on a V chord (especially one with lots of extended harmonies like b9 and #9 as well as #5.)

The 4th mode Lydian is excellent as a substitute for an Ionian scale and is the one most related to it in function. In jazz it is almost always seen as a I scale (as the I chord almost always has a #4 instead of the Ionian based natural 4). Because it has a tritone between the root and the #4 it can be highly useful for a slight sense of dissonance but still very tonal.

The 5th mode Mixolydian is the corny scale for a V chord and is cool against sus chords. Usually though it is varied when in jazz with b and #9s etc.

The sixth mode Aeolian is excellent for classical sounding minor scale and is the most obvious choice for melodies in a minor mode. It is very often mixed with melodic minor and harmonic minor, all of which have the same first four notes (called a tetra-chord) but the last 4 have variations on the 6th and 7ths. The aeolian has a b6 and b7th, the melodic has a natural 6th and a b7th while the harmonic minor has a b6th and a major 7th.

The last mode Locrain is cool unto itself, but needs special handling as it easily sounds like the Ionian scale played from its seventh degree (the very strong leading note.)

Hope this helps.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 6, 2005)

Or you could just listen and see how they strike you. If you play all the white notes from c to c you have a major scale (Ionian mode). Then play all the white notes from d to d, e to e, etc. There are only seven of them.


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## ChasingTheSun_Jeff (Nov 6, 2005)

I really appreicate the help guys! Thanks fiction!


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## dcoscina (Oct 14, 2010)

James Horner uses Lydian for those "wondrous" moments with the raised 4th. It works very well and I have also exploited it for the same manipulative ends.


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## realstrings (Nov 3, 2010)

Great thread! I guess I feel that major and minor scales are the 'straight and narrow' and the impact a mode has on me relates to how it deviates from those 2 basic scales.
I dabbled with a little interactive modes guide a while back at http://composersforum.ning.com/profiles/blogs/773368:BlogPost:56246


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## RiffWraith (Nov 3, 2010)

It's not the mode that's used - it's_ how _it's used; ie, what notes are chosen, the duration of the notes, the rhythm, the tempo, intervals, chords, and of course, ultimately, how those notes are played by the musicians. You can talk all you want about Dorian mode this, and Cowabunga mode that, but it's all the rest of it that makes the mood.

Cheers.


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## EMPscoring (Nov 3, 2010)

Robteehan - thank you, appreciate the links as well!


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## gsilbers (Nov 3, 2010)

the pissicheti book about 20th century is good for that and other things...
(please correct me on the title spelling please :oops: )


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## JJP (Nov 3, 2010)

gsilbers @ Wed Nov 03 said:


> the pissicheti book about 20th century is good for that and other things...
> (please correct me on the title spelling please :oops: )



I'm not going to correct you. I LOVE that spelling! :lol:


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## bryla (Nov 4, 2010)

:D 

Rob, if you take the whole Simpsons theme into account and not only the first 5 notes, you'll see that it's a complete outline of a Lydian Dominant scale:

1 3 #4 6 5 3 1 6 #4 #4 #4 5 #4 #4 #4 5 b7 1 1 1 1


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## EwigWanderer (Nov 5, 2010)

bryla @ 11.4.2010 said:


> :D
> 
> Rob, if you take the whole Simpsons theme into account and not only the first 5 notes, you'll see that it's a complete outline of a Lydian Dominant scale:
> 
> 1 3 #4 6 5 3 1 6 #4 #4 #4 5 #4 #4 #4 5 b7 1 1 1 1



I feel stupid to even ask this, but what do those numbers mean? 

I haven't studiet theory, but I've starting to get there..problem is that there are very few "good" books about musical theory in Finnish...that you can unserstand well without a teacher near you ;D If here are other people from Finland I would be happy to hear some info about theory books in finnish=)


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## bryla (Nov 5, 2010)

Rami, they are scale degrees. 1 is C for example. Then 3 is E. #4 is F# and so on


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## chimuelo (Nov 5, 2010)

Just listen and analyze the parts of any music you find motivational.
This is where Theory is the most helpful.
Afterall, a Bird can't tell you much about Aerodynamics.


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## bryla (Nov 5, 2010)

Yes!

As my former theory teacher told me (a propos the bird analogy):

Music is like hearing a bird sing.

Theory is like cutting its throat open to see how the music is made - thus destroying the beauty.


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## Ethos (Nov 5, 2010)

Think of it this way. In terms of brightness and darkness, Dorian is neutral. As flats are made natural, they get brighter until you reach Lydian (with one #), which is the brightest. Add more flats and they get darker, Locrian being the darkest.


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## Peter Alexander (Nov 10, 2010)

Different answer and approach. With Fux, you learn to write in each mode along with learning basic chord progressions within that mode.
http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Departments/Composing-and-Film-Scoring/The-Instant-Composer.aspx (http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Depa ... poser.aspx)

Each mode, as you discover through writing, has its own sound.

In jazz harmony, each chord in the key is assigned its own chord scale (mode).

I = ionian
ii = dorian
iii = phrygian
IV = Lydian (raised 4th)
V = mixolydian
vi = aeolian (natural minor)
vii = locrian


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