# Writing in 432hz



## mac (Mar 18, 2018)

Does anyone here compose, tuned to 432hz?


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## JJP (Mar 18, 2018)

Don't buy into the silly pseudoscience. If you want to work with anyone else, tune to 440 in the US or occasionally 442 in other places. Exceptions would be things like baroque ensembles that try to perform in a historically accurate way on period instruments.

Of course if you don't care about working with anyone else, you can tune to whatever you want.


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## muk (Mar 18, 2018)

If a client specifically asked for it I would. Other than that there is no rational reason to do it. You could even make an argument to go in the other direction: to tune to 444Hz or even 448Hz for added brilliance (as Karajan did). But for me personally there is no compelling reason to deviate from 440Hz as standard tuning. If there is for you, by all means do.


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## halfwalk (Mar 19, 2018)

There's a song called "Hideaway" by Jacob Collier where he does the intro in 432hz and the outro in 440hz, as a sort of creative decision. He says the 432hz feels "indoors" and the 440 feels "outdoors" like it's some kind of revelation or transformation.

It has nothing to do with "silly pseudoscience" as mentioned above, just a creative decision because of the feelings it evokes. That remark strikes me as somewhat intolerant, given that there wasn't really any basis for jumping to that conclusion.

When you've been listening to A=440 all your life, 432 immediately jumps out as unusual and different. This can be useful and pleasant.


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## JohnG (Mar 19, 2018)

Possibly you're right, that JJP leapt to an incorrect conclusion. That said, I've heard astounding nonsense about tuning for years. It baffles me that anyone spends energy on it, and the positions staked out carry almost religious (faith-based, in other words) intensity. So maybe that colored his response.

Either way, do whatever you like if you think it sounds good. Why shouldn't you? 

One of my pals writes music with scales that subdivide the octave in all kinds of ways (or ignore octaves altogether, actually). He likes it.


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 19, 2018)

Recording at 332hz seems more like an effect you'd purposely want to do if you want your music to stand out and sound different for whatever reasons, and I guess that's ok, so more of a personal thing, and I know there's this trend going on, I guess it's becoming a new device for composing and recording. I'm yet to be convinced how effective it is, and playing Chopin at 332hz isn't my cup of tea, but maybe I'm conditioned, seems to me once 440 was established, you can't go back to the 19th cent.


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## dgburns (Mar 19, 2018)

maybe interesting reading?


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## NoamL (Mar 19, 2018)

halfwalk said:


> There's a song called "Hideaway" by Jacob Collier where he does the intro in 432hz and the outro in 440hz, as a sort of creative decision. He says the 432hz feels "indoors" and the 440 feels "outdoors" like it's some kind of revelation or transformation.



It's a cool idea but I reckon these distinctions matter more if you have perfect pitch. There may be something to his perspective, but how much does it matter if other people can't experience sound the same way he does?


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 19, 2018)

Not sure if it's specifically these numbers, might be just the contrast of the 2 giving him this impression. A bit too much for me.


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## Kent (Mar 19, 2018)

It’s audible. 


NoamL said:


> It's a cool idea but I reckon these distinctions matter more if you have perfect pitch. There may be something to his perspective, but how much does it matter if other people can't experience sound the same way he does?


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## CT (Mar 19, 2018)

I did almost everything at 442 for the last few years, but it obviously only has a meaningful effect when done with real instruments, not with samples.

The physical changes in instruments tuned a bit higher or lower than usual create what I think is a noticeable difference; samples just get stretched up (or down).

I'm back at 440 now, but I remain interested in different temperaments, although mostly for electronics, since they can't really be practically applied to an orchestra.


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## halfwalk (Mar 20, 2018)

Here's a segment of a video where Jacob Collier explains tuning, and among other things, how a=432hz came about as a side effect of just intonation. It's just math (pardon the pun), no silly pseudoscience about the form and truth frequency of the pyramids or whatever.

The whole video is worth watching several times over, while taking notes.


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 20, 2018)

Interesting. I doubt the rest of us mortals are as refined.


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 20, 2018)

Stephen Limbaugh, a VSL user:


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## Piano Pete (Mar 20, 2018)

Personally, I have never gotten anything extra out of changing the frequency to which I have tuned. As long as it is consistent, I am fine. In the pieces I have listened to that mix 432/440, I have always heard these differences more as chromatic modulation(s) than anything else. Depending on how they have been handled, they were either successful or just sounded out of tune. I think the success is partially dependent on the context in which they were presented, if that makes any sense. Whatever timbral benefits are gained by this I feel are not worth the technical hassles, especially with live (orchestral) musicians. For recordings, it is easier to get away with. 

If I compose, I always write with the assumption that A=440. For period specific tuning, I just transpose the key appropriately. Even if it is not exactly correct, it is close enough for government work. If I do any music with micro-tuning, A=440 (again it is just practical). I also feel that this brings extra emphasis to these inner notes. What is the significance of these inner pitches if there isn't a reference point to gauge them against? Now with that said, I feel that if a microtonal piece is not done well, it just sounds like a regular piece with a lot of tuning issues and random pitch-bends. For ethnic pieces that utilize non-western tuning and scales, I do not really think about western tuning unless mixing it with standard instruments or practices. Sometimes the western instruments win the tuning fight, sometimes the ethnic ones do. 

I have, on a few occasions, utilized mixed tuning between the different instruments of a western ensemble for specific reasons. Sometimes this has been by specifically requesting a different A-tuning. Other times I achieved this effect, I feel, by just dictating the appropriate notes, either chromatically or microtonally. These things were specific decisions I made for specific reasons, and the same results realistically could have been achieved several different ways, I feel. Whatever was most convenient for all involved was what I opted for. For orchestra sessions, I avoid straying form A-440, unless with period instruments. 

A part of me understands the allure of changing the tuning. A part of me feels that it is mostly a gimmick. Part of me feels that it doesnt matter either way, and if the piece sounds wonky with either tuning, it needs to be re-written. Sometimes that effect is wanted, sometimes it isnt. Most audience members cannot tell the difference, enough, or do not care, so I try not to make additional work or stress for those I work with.


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## elpedro (Mar 20, 2018)

mac said:


> Does anyone here compose, tuned to 432hz?


Only on days when I wear my tin foil hat.....


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## CT (Mar 20, 2018)

Since we're sort of on the subject, anyone interested in alternate temperaments should listen to John Adams' "The Dharma at Big Sur."

https://www.earbox.com/dharma-at-big-sur/


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 27, 2018)

Numbers are digital, math is analog.

Its all relative.

432hz has no special anything over 440hz, its just a bit flatter, nothing more. Its all relative. People like the number 432 because it is evenly dividable into 12,9,6 and 3. So when using the decimal numbering system, the number 432 does have some relevance as a harmonic multiple of other values in the decimal system. The golden ratio falls out of these geometric relations. So called Sacred Geometry.

HOWEVER...

When talking about HERTZ... its not just the number 432. Hertz is cycles per second. So 432hz is 432 cycles per second. But what is the meaning of "one second"? its an arbitrary length of time. What if a second as we know it was actually slightly longer, say 1.02 of what it currently is? Then the sound of 440hz on that time scale would be exactly the same as 432hz on our time scale of 1 second intervals. There is no special magical property of 1 second length of time that will take the number 432 and give special magic power to that frequency in cycles per second. Its entirely arbitrary based on our current time scale of diving up an earth day into 24 hours, 60 minutes per hour, 60 seconds per minute. 

So it makes no difference whatsoever, the number 432 is kind of magical in the decimal number system and in terms of so called sacred geometry, but the frequency of 432hz has no special property that can be explained by all the reasons commonly given, because the time interval of one second has no magical basis. 

What is more interesting, however is to play around with the relationships between 12,9,6,3, etc.. these are relative geometrically, relate to the golden ratio, etc.. So while it makes no difference whether your instruments are tuned to 440hz or 432hz, the intervals, scales and chords you use to make music may adhere to those harmonic geometries in a way that could perhaps be organic in some way. In fact, most of western music and the twelve tone system came out of exactly that.


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## alexballmusic (Jul 2, 2018)

Adam Nealy covers it very well. He starts the video by playing along and then reveals why it's pseudo science. It's comprehensively explained.

The only thing that's true is that a different tuning when played directly before or after another tuning will create a contrast that might be of use creatively (in a similar way that a normal key change works). But that's nothing special about 432 and 440 is an arbitrary number for the sake of uniformity. You get the same effect by playing 448 and then 440 straight after or 440 and 429 straight after etc.


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