# For how long can strings play tremolo?



## Sebastianmu (Sep 30, 2015)

I think through working with sample libraries I have developed a tendency to overuse tremolo. 

My question is: for how long can real players maintain a soft tremolo without getting a cramp?

Cheers,
S


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Sep 30, 2015)

Professional players will do tremolos with a relaxed bow hand and so it can be done for virtually as long as you want. Personally my right hand will get numb after about 2 hours of playing intensely in orchestra.


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## tonaliszt (Sep 30, 2015)

Sebastianmu said:


> I think through working with sample libraries I have developed a tendency to overuse tremolo.


Bruckner had the same problem, and he didn't even have sample libraries!


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## trumpoz (Sep 30, 2015)

Sebastianmu said:


> I think through working with sample libraries I have developed a tendency to overuse tremolo.
> 
> My question is: for how long can real players maintain a soft tremolo without getting a cramp?
> 
> ...


I would really love to see someone try this out with a live orchestra......... 12 hours later the string section stagger out of the concert hall with their right arms limply dangling by their side on the way to a physiotherapist!


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## mverta (Sep 30, 2015)

Forever...and ever... and ever.


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## AR (Sep 30, 2015)

My wife was a violinist in the Munich Philharmonik. She says Tremolo is one of the easy techniques. Of course at a high bpm it'll get tricky. But tremolo is nothing compared to arpeggios in "nasty" harmonies going on for a few minutes - her quote.


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## Christof (Oct 1, 2015)

I agree, tremolo is very easy to play, but in high dynamics like ff it can be VERY exhausting.


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## AR (Oct 1, 2015)

Definitely. Now I can imagine how difficult tremoli arpeggios are.


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## Sebastianmu (Oct 1, 2015)

Haha, thanks everyone!

What actually triggered my post was watching the concert master in this:


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## thesteelydane (Oct 1, 2015)

For the violins and violas it depends on what string there at, and what dynamic. Forte on one of the lower strings not that long, you start to hurt after about a minute. Soft pianissimo on the E string? Much, much longer! As someone who played professionally for 10 years, but was out for 2 with a massive shoulder injury, musicians health is a subject dear to my heart, and I've worked with physic therapists around the world on raising awareness. If you want to know what really ends careers, it's working in an opera orchestra and playing 2nd violin on Figaro. The finale of the second act is almost 25 minutes of playing non stop on the lower strings.


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## Stiltzkin (Oct 1, 2015)

Recently worked on a session and the thing I found was definitely the cellos and bass had problems at FF for long periods - the violins and violas didn't mind so much even though it was like 30/45mins of it. So likely something to think about if you're thinking about getting the cellos to play FF trem for a while!


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## AR (Oct 1, 2015)

Well, as I play contrabass; you can go for long tremoli. You normally don't need more than 2min of playing tremolo


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## Parsifal666 (Oct 1, 2015)

Sebastianmu said:


> Haha, thanks everyone!
> 
> What actually triggered my post was watching the concert master in this:




I love how Celibidache stretches out Bruckner. I think 2 mins. is a good guide for tremolo limit...the effect can get really old unless you have some cool dynamic intricacies going on around or within.

Then again, it's your composition so you can do whatever you want.


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## sharmayelverton (Dec 28, 2015)

Until their arms drop off....


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## afterlight82 (Dec 29, 2015)

The other thing is measured vs unmeasured. A lot of players (even pros) tighten up subconsciously on measured trems, especially those that need to be loud, marked/accented or especially tight rhythmically, whereas unmeasured is more "free"...


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## pkm (Dec 30, 2015)

50 minutes, 10 minute break, repeat.


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## Christof (Dec 30, 2015)

To achieve a nice sounding tremolo we string players usually play at different tremolo speeds within a string section.
So I would play slow tremolo while my neighbor would play a very fast one.


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## thesteelydane (Dec 30, 2015)

Best way to find out is get a stop watch, hold out your right arm, elbow bent about 90 degrees. Turn you hand so the thumb is pointing towards the floor, and move your hand side to side, using only wrist for piano and the whole lower arm for forte. If you have written tremolo on the G or C string for the upper strings, you elbow should be just below shoulder height, if it's on the E string, you can pretty much just let your arm hang. Start your stop watch, do your air-trems and when it starts to hurt too much, look at the watch. There's your answer! For cello's it's obviously different, they are helped by gravity, but play with a high elbow on the HIGHER strings, and inward rotation of the shoulder joint, which is why they get more right shoulder injuries, as opposed to high strings - we mostly injure our left shoulder.


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