# New year resolution. Less libraries and more learning



## emilio_n (Jan 5, 2021)

After this last six months of great sales, Black Friday offers and incredible end of the year unique opportunities, I realize that:

- I need to stop to buy libraries all the time and start to learn how to use them.
- I am starting to be a kind of collector of sounds and I hate this. I want to start to learn from the ground.

A little bit of my background:
I learned piano for a few years when I was a teenager. I know how to read the notes with a turtle speed. I know the basic chords and even I can put some together and play something. I am using Logic Pro and I am not an expert at all, so still thinking if I should switch to Cubase as most of the education courses to compose music using Cubase more than Logic.

Said that. Someone could recommend me a good path to learn? I am not looking for shortcuts but I need a route funny as this is a hobby. 
At this moment I have a yearly subscription with Groove3 that is great but not very focused on learning theory. I was checking all the things out there from Evenant to Scoreclub, but I am lost. What is the path that you are following o what is your recommendation for step by step learning?


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## stixman (Jan 5, 2021)

Have a look at Thinkspace as well....wait for sales also checkout Mike Verta


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## Max Bonsi (Jan 5, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> After this last six months of great sales, Black Friday offers and incredible end of the year unique opportunities, I realize that:
> 
> - I need to stop to buy libraries all the time and start to learn how to use them.
> - I am starting to be a kind of collector of sounds and I hate this. I want to start to learn from the ground.
> ...


I feel the same
Stop buying libraries 
Start Learning and compose something
Invest in education
Go and watch real orchestras
Maybe find a good Tutor
Buy, as I did, Adler's orchestration guide
...

Max


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## emilio_n (Jan 5, 2021)

Max Bonsi said:


> Buy, as I did, Adler's orchestration guide


I think will be a good starting for me too.

Looks Scoreclub is a great resource, but I think not for me yet. Maybe the best way is to start with the basic music theory courses on Udemy and refresh my poor old knowledge.


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## cmillar (Jan 5, 2021)

I'm with you, and I've been doing this longer than you (and working as a professional composer/arranger).

I still realize that all my software programs are all so powerful and have so much power built into them ....that there are still many functions I don't even use or are still just there waiting to be used!

It's like a professional tennis player says: "My tennis racket is always ready to play... now it's up to me to learn how to use it!"

We have AMAZING tools at our disposal these days. Unbelievable when compared to what many of us started out with in the '80's or '90's.

- Check out the big sale at "Peter Alexander Publishing" for some decent orchestration books and other items of interest

- numerous YouTube sources; numerous tips on sample library developr websites;

- for Logic Pro, make sure you get the book by Jay Asher (you'll see his name on this forum for sure). Jay's book is fantastic for any Logic Pro user.


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## jonathanparham (Jan 5, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> I think will be a good starting for me too.
> 
> Looks Scoreclub is a great resource, but I think not for me yet. Maybe the best way is to start with the basic music theory courses on Udemy and refresh my poor old knowledge.


welp I already pitched you Scoreclub in another thread a while back. I think, as your realizing, the more you know and learn, the samples are just the presentation. They won't make the score for you but samples will make your own learned ideas shine regardless of the developer. I think you could handle the Essentials in Scoreclub. Just take it one step at a time.


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## shponglefan (Jan 5, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> Said that. Someone could recommend me a good path to learn? I am not looking for shortcuts but I need a route funny as this is a hobby.
> At this moment I have a yearly subscription with Groove3 that is great but not very focused on learning theory. I was checking all the things out there from Evenant to Scoreclub, but I am lost. What is the path that you are following o what is your recommendation for step by step learning?



I've attempted a few different course sources of the past couple years including Evenant and Scoreclub. What I've found though is that I'm still lacking in some of the fundamentals (this was especially the case with Scoreclub).

Something I also noticed is that a lot of composers/instructors seem to have a good grasp of fundamental piano skills as well as music theory.

Thus, I decided to go back to basics and just focus on basic piano playing skills. Like you, I also took piano as a kid, but I haven't really kept up my skillset. I've started focusing on basics like sight-reading, practicing scales, chords and inversions, and so on. For this, I'm using the Alfred's Adult piano course books as well as supplementary sites (e.g. pianoscales.org).

And as odd as this sounds, I've also been practicing listening to music in a more analytical fashion. IOW, trying to breakdown what I'm hearing and pick out rhythm, intervals, chords, etc.


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## emilio_n (Jan 5, 2021)

jonathanparham said:


> welp I already pitched you Scoreclub in another thread a while back. I think, as your realizing, the more you know and learn, the samples are just the presentation. They won't make the score for you but samples will make your own learned ideas shine regardless of the developer. I think you could handle the Essentials in Scoreclub. Just take it one step at a time.


Yes! You are right. I am stuck about how to start for a while. I will try with Scoreclub for a month. If I find the lesson too complicated to me, I can cancel the subscription and back later.  
Thanks again for your advice and sorry to be annoying with the same question!


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## emilio_n (Jan 5, 2021)

shponglefan said:


> I've attempted a few different course sources of the past couple years including Evenant and Scoreclub. What I've found though is that I'm still lacking in some of the fundamentals (this was especially the case with Scoreclub).
> 
> Something I also noticed is that a lot of composers/instructors seem to have a good grasp of fundamental piano skills as well as music theory.
> 
> ...


Looks we are in a very similar situation and I agree with you about study piano again is a key.


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## shponglefan (Jan 5, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> Yes! You are right. I am stuck about how to start for a while. I will try with Scoreclub for a month. If I find the lesson too complicated to me, I can cancel the subscription and back later.
> Thanks again for your advice and sorry to be annoying with the same question!


Just a note regarding the Essential Composer Training course in Scoreclub. The instructor specifically recommends knowing all the major, minor, augmented, and dominant 7th chords *and* all inversions thereof as a prerequisite. It also helps to have a decent sight-reading ability, since the instructor uses standard music notation.


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## jonathanparham (Jan 5, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> Yes! You are right. I am stuck about how to start for a while. I will try with Scoreclub for a month. If I find the lesson too complicated to me, I can cancel the subscription and back later.
> Thanks again for your advice and sorry to be annoying with the same question!


not annoying at all. You aren't the first one to say Scoreclub is tough to start. For me, with a degree in music but no formal orchestration lessons, Scoreclub helps me organize what I 'already' know. But I play piano, site read, analyze, so for me it's an amazing tool. I'm reviewing the first Orchestration Course now between gigs. I like what @Max Bonsi says and there's good advice in this thread. I've learned for myself and see it in the industry; we all learn differently. Message me if you need help


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## Fry777 (Jan 5, 2021)

I've been doing a few courses over 2020, here's a quick word about them if it helps 

If you need a refresh on harmony, there is a short but fun and useful course on Thinkspace (and it's cheap) :





Learn Music Theory | ThinkSpace Education


Whether you are a guitarist, electronic musician, songwriter or just love music, Learn Music Theory will give you techniques to apply to your music straight away.




bit.ly





If you want to dig in more in the subject, I liked the Harmony One and Two courses from Thinkspace as well, although most of it is in front of Sibelius looking at Bach scores, covering several topics like cadences, the role of tonic dominant etc :





Harmony One | ThinkSpace Education


Learn how to use harmony from working film composers and orchestrators. This course will give you the core skills and techniques to get started writing successful four-part harmony.




bit.ly





The Cinematic Music I & II courses by Arn Andersson Evenant courses are good too, with more focus on the midi programming side of things and practical orchestration tips.
I'm currently doing their Orchestration Reloaded : Strings arranging course, I only did about 20% of it so far but the explanations are clear and it looks very promising. Although reading sheet music is advised, it's not mandatory, even though I believe the course is globally taught from the orchestration theory angle rather than from a DAW (even though the examples are very much telling, in a practical way, so it's really applicable knowledge, like the "MeHaRyte" Melody Harmony Rhythm Texture method). There's also several piano sketches being orchestrated for the student as far as I can see in the index. Big potential this one I think, looking forward to finish it in the next weeks !
https://bit.ly/3rYu0OO
Finally, a bit of a different course, this one focuses on the "technical" side of things, since you said you bought a number of libs lately. It teaches a methodology to blend different libs together effectively, it's a short and to the point course, what I like about it is that the teacher is very transparent about his settings and choices, and shows everything is doing (no hidden plugins or settings, for example). The course teaches these principles by showing you how to blend CSS and SCS, which a lot of users probably already have, even though it applies to any other lib once you understand the method (I'm currently trying it with Vista and CSS) :








Digital Composing Series: Strings


Get Digital Composing Series: Strings




bit.ly


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 5, 2021)

I’ve done a lot of courses out there. What I would recommend:
Evenant
Scoreclub
Chris Siu’s course
Cinematic Composing
Thinkspace
Orchestration Recipes

Then get a book on orchestration to dive deep. Buy some scores. Most importantly, write some amount of music everyday, even if it is the worst music ever written. Practice makes perfect. No amount of learning will change that.


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## RobbertZH (Jan 5, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> Yes! You are right. I am stuck about how to start for a while. I will try with Scoreclub for a month. If I find the lesson too complicated to me, I can cancel the subscription and back later.
> Thanks again for your advice and sorry to be annoying with the same question!


Depends on which course from ScoreClub.

The two I am following are:
_*Memorable Melodies through Motivic Mastery*
about creating better and more memorable melodies using motifs_
and
_*Modal Mastery*
which demonstrates how music in various (church) modes sound
(there are more modes then only major and minor)_

Both can be easily followed with little music theory and are really practical with lots of played examples

PS: Please note however that there is no written guide along sides these two courses.
So if you want to have a quick reference, you have to make it yourself while listening to the course videos. I make this in microsoft word and embed screenshots of the annotated scores.


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## RobbertZH (Jan 5, 2021)

Another course which is fun and instructive at the same time is:

https://ask.video/course/music-scoring-101-creating-moods-and-styles

In each lesson it takes a simple idea, which can be a melody, a rhythm, a harmony, etc and then demonstrates that by changing other musical aspects, for example given a melody, change the tempo and orchestration, create three totally different moods.

You need little music theory
and it is practical as it shows you simple options to change your music and mood.

You can watch 5 lessons for free.

You could for example watch (which starts with a really really simple base idea):









Learn Creating Moods skills in this tutorial video from online course Music Scoring 101 - Creating Moods and Styles


LA composer Gary Guttman is a master at composing music for visuals. In this scoring course, he explains the essence of his craft. If you want to learn how to s




ask.video


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## RobbertZH (Jan 5, 2021)

There are also orchestration courses on AskVideo.
These look in detail to various instruments, the range, timbre and mood, how they are used in music
and shows how classical players play various articulations:









Orchestration Course Library


Learn all of today's popular software for Mac & Windows. Watch videos showing production tips & tricks. View Industry-leading Artists at work in top studios. Real Video, Real Pros, Real Education




ask.video





Again you can watch example lessons, for example:

https://ask.video/video/orchestration-flutes-and-oboes/10-10-oboe-unique-voice-and-strengths


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## GNP (Jan 5, 2021)

Less of everything else, except money and projects!


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## RobbertZH (Jan 5, 2021)

About using one motif to create various musical pieces with totally different moods, a wonderful classical example are the Enigma Variations from Edward Elgar:




And if you want to hear an explanation about where you can find (variations of) the motif in the various musical pieces, listen to the following recorded BBC program:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b01p2w5l


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## pixelcrave (Jan 5, 2021)

This is a great thread! — added to Watch list!

I'm also a hobbyist and while I can play piano / keyboard (I'm just ok, lots of room to grow my skills), and I was never classically trained. Technology-wise though, I'm fairly quick learner, so my focus is very much on composition & arrangement. The two ala carte courses I took so far that I found very helpful for my needs were:

*ThinkSpace Ed Learn Music Theory*
This provides me with the quick run through of music theory & principles without me getting too overwhelmed. I appreciate that Guy has optional secondary videos when explaining a certain concept in case you didn't quite get that in the first run.





Learn Music Theory | ThinkSpace Education


Whether you are a guitarist, electronic musician, songwriter or just love music, Learn Music Theory will give you techniques to apply to your music straight away.




thinkspaceeducation.com






*Udemy: Music Composition with the Piano*
This provides me with the practical way to apply knowledge using the only instrument I'm familiar with, without the pressure of having to have the ability to read notes. I really like this course a lot.








Music Composition with the Piano: Ultimate Keyboard Theory


Music Composition - The Ultimate Guide to Piano, Chords & Music Theory for Producers, Film Composers & Songwriters.




www.udemy.com





I also got a few courses from Mike Verta too but only went through a couple of them (while it's a good content, I wish there's more structure to his courses - hard to plan for sitting through for 2 hours without knowing exactly what is the expected outcome).

Next steps for me are:
(1) to learn how to read notes (I know what note is in what line but I can't sight read. LOL)
(2) improve ear training
(3) eventually, signing up for ScoreClub once I have just a bit of the foundations covered.

Cheers,
Ivan


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## MauroPantin (Jan 5, 2021)

All of the listed options are great. I can vouch for ScoreClub and Thinkspace for sure. Adler's book, too. It's all basically the same concepts organized differently.

I think you'd do well to assess the following things:

1- What is your background (ie, how much do you already know)?
2- What is your goal or aim or preferred style? It is not the same trying to write in a Trent Reznor/Atticus Ross style than HZ, or JW.
3- What is your preferred style or method for taking in new information?
4- How much time do you have per day for this?

These questions might narrow it down for you towards what would be your best first step.


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## emilio_n (Jan 5, 2021)

MauroPantin said:


> All of the listed options are great. I can vouch for ScoreClub and Thinkspace for sure. Adler's book, too. It's all basically the same concepts organized differently.
> 
> I think you'd do well to assess the following things:
> 
> ...


Good questions...

In my case:
1.- I can say that I am a beginner. I study 4 years of classic piano when I was a kid and another 4 of "modern piano" when I was teenager. Some years ago I can play, but now I have the feeling that I forgot everything. I can play the common chords, create the scales with the circle of fifths and read the notes on the score counting the lines.  

2.- I love the Soul OST of Trent Reznor but I think that I am looking something more classical like John Willians, Danny Elfman or even Hans Zinnerman.

3.- I am afraid that should be on this way, but trying to learn the basics again was really boring. I suppose that something more practical.

4.- Tricky question... I am working now as a photographer and teacher. before was quite busy 50/50 % but with this pandemic situation maybe now is 10/90 %. I have some time daily, maybe to dedicate a couple of hours. (More if I avoid some procrastination time on this wonderful community and in other online distractions)


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## MauroPantin (Jan 5, 2021)

Awesome! In that case, my two cents would be to start with ThinkSpace, the basic courses (Theory, How To Write Music, maybe Harmony). They are inexpensive and taught by Guy, so they will be pretty engaging. They are also quick enough to review anything you might already know without getting bored. 

Then maybe move on to ScoreClub. Not much needed for ScoreClub other than some basic harmony and interval knowledge. It just takes time, the ScoreClub courses require a lot of practice, so if you can handle the theory quickly you'll find it less frustrating. If you want to write in golden age Williams style Alain is the real deal. 

And then you can get a book on instrumentation/orchestration as a reference material and get some specific tutoring like with Thomas Goss in Orchestration Online or something to that effect.


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## emilio_n (Jan 5, 2021)

MauroPantin said:


> Awesome! In that case, my two cents would be to start with ThinkSpace, the basic courses (Theory, How To Write Music, maybe Harmony). They are inexpensive and taught by Guy, so they will be pretty engaging. They are also quick enough to review anything you might already know without getting bored.
> 
> Then maybe move on to ScoreClub. Not much needed for ScoreClub other than some basic harmony and interval knowledge. It just takes time, the ScoreClub courses require a lot of practice, so if you can handle the theory quickly you'll find it less frustrating. If you want to write in golden age Williams style Alain is the real deal.
> 
> And then you can get a book on instrumentation/orchestration as a reference material and get some specific tutoring like with Thomas Goss in Orchestration Online or something to that effect.


Thank you very much!!!
It looks like a good plan!


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## Marsen (Jan 5, 2021)

+1 for Samuel Adler,
Thinkspace and also,
what about Synthestration.com ?


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## Headlands (Jan 5, 2021)

I've been composing for quite a while professionally and sometimes need to follow this line of thinking more as well. Most of us do not NEED more libraries or plugins, unless there's something that truly offers what we don't have and/or we need it for a job. Even for experienced composers there are always many things to learn, including the libraries and plugins we already have, learning them more deeply. Plugin and library companies do incredible work marketing, just like any other realm of sales -- I'm not angry at them because it's how they make their money, but reality is very often different from how the ads intentionally make you feel in order to buy, buy, buy more. And, for me and pretty much all the composers, producers, and mixers I know and talk to, too many things to choose from can end up harming your speed and workflow.

Just wanted to echo and support your decision!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 5, 2021)

Marsen said:


> +1 for Samuel Adler,
> Thinkspace and also,
> what about Synthestration.com ?


If you have the libraries the project needs, I've found it a pretty great resource to understand template setup, routing, mixing, arrangement, composition, orchestration, etc. from the perspective of another composer.

I think in general hanging out on Vi-C breeds more of a sample library collector mentality vs. a musician mentality (how many people focus on this forum or the Member Compositions one instead of Sample Talk / Commercial Announcements?). I have taken the approach of limiting my time on Vi-C (especially the Sample Talk forum) so I can focus more on what I already own and learning to use those fully. You can learn and do a ton with just BBCSO for example, and those skills will transfer over to any new purchases you decide to make.


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## heisenberg (Jan 5, 2021)

Thank you to all for your contributions to this thread. A breath of needed fresh air.


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## Headlands (Jan 5, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I think in general hanging out on Vi-C breeds more of a sample library collector library vs. a musician mentality (how many people focus on this forum or the Member Compositions one instead of Sample Talk / Commercial Announcements?). I have taken the approach of limiting my time on Vi-C (especially the Sample Talk forum) so I can focus more on what I already own and learning to use those fully. You can learn and do a ton with just BBCSO for example, and those skills will transfer over to any new purchases you decide to make.


Totally true, and the same here with limiting my time here for that exact reason.


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## pondinthestream (Jan 5, 2021)

My New Year's resolution is to be less goal oriented


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## Rossy (Jan 5, 2021)

I started listening more, more pop, more rock, more classical, more everything. I also started watching tons of movies with the tv off and just my surround sound system to see if I can pick stuff out without visual cues, just to see what it does to my perception. ONE OF MY 2021 GOALS.....LISTEN MORE AND WRITE EVERY DAY.


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## twcook (Jan 5, 2021)

shponglefan said:


> I've attempted a few different course sources of the past couple years including Evenant and Scoreclub. What I've found though is that I'm still lacking in some of the fundamentals (this was especially the case with Scoreclub).
> 
> Something I also noticed is that a lot of composers/instructors seem to have a good grasp of fundamental piano skills as well as music theory.
> 
> ...


Has anyone here used Melodics to improve keyboard skills?


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## widescreen (Jan 5, 2021)

Marsen said:


> +1 for Samuel Adler,
> Thinkspace and also,
> what about Synthestration.com ?


As for Synthestration.com as a good example:

Why are most learning platforms focusing in just the most expensive options, Cubase and Apple? Prevents many with lower budgets from learning in detail. Yes, Logic is free, but a decent Apple eco system makes it the most expensive of all.

Or how do I make use of project files without having Logic or Cubase?


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## Marsen (Jan 6, 2021)

widescreen said:


> As for Synthestration.com as a good example:
> 
> Why are most learning platforms focusing in just the most expensive options, Cubase and Apple? Prevents many with lower budgets from learning in detail. Yes, Logic is free, but a decent Apple eco system makes it the most expensive of all.
> 
> Or how do I make use of project files without having Logic or Cubase?


Because the distributing composers are working with these programs.

You also can analyze classical Midi-Files with the DAW of your choice. There is a lot out there.


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## widescreen (Jan 6, 2021)

Marsen said:


> Because the distributing composers are working with these programs.



Oh, really? Thanks for opening my eyes, I thought they use Reaper, Studio One or Cakewalk and convert it to Cubase later just to annoy me. 

I know that a few years ago most students used Logic or Cubase. But the others are growing. I'd prefer sites that think more from the customer's view. Where else should demand be generated than here in that forum?

If MIDI files would do it the same way, why getting special DAW project files then?


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## cmillar (Jan 6, 2021)

Headlands said:


> I've been composing for quite a while professionally and sometimes need to follow this line of thinking more as well. Most of us do not NEED more libraries or plugins, unless there's something that truly offers what we don't have and/or we need it for a job. Even for experienced composers there are always many things to learn, including the libraries and plugins we already have, learning them more deeply. Plugin and library companies do incredible work marketing, just like any other realm of sales -- I'm not angry at them because it's how they make their money, but reality is very often different from how the ads intentionally make you feel in order to buy, buy, buy more. And, for me and pretty much all the composers, producers, and mixers I know and talk to, too many things to choose from can end up harming your speed and workflow.
> 
> Just wanted to echo and support your decision!


Right on!


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## SlHarder (Jan 6, 2021)

Marsen said:


> You also can analyze classical Midi-Files with the DAW of your choice. There is a lot out there.


In fact there is so much classical midi out there it's been daunting for me find a source that is somewhat consistent in quality of content. Would you or anyone point to useful sources?


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## ed buller (Jan 6, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> Said that. Someone could recommend me a good path to learn? I am not looking for shortcuts but I need a route funny as this is a hobby.
> At this moment I have a yearly subscription with Groove3 that is great but not very focused on learning theory. I was checking all the things out there from Evenant to Scoreclub, but I am lost. What is the path that you are following o what is your recommendation for step by step learning?


Sound move. I have spent so much money on Libraries that aren't good....

SCORECLUB......you will learn loads. It's a fantastic resource

best

e


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## JohnG (Jan 6, 2021)

Or just buy a few scores. You can keep them forever and some of them are only about $10. 

Ravel, Debussy, Respighi, the Russians...

If you want film music specifically, these are more expensive but worth their weight in gold: John Williams, John Powell (How to Train Your Dragon), maybe Jerry Goldsmith's Total Recall.

I like to read along and then if there's a particularly arresting bit, do some analysis. You don't have to spend years -- a couple of hours, here and there, can be transformative.


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## Zero&One (Jan 6, 2021)

Another slant on it, you mention moving to Cubase, theory courses. I’d say this could also be procrastinating, as it’s more buying. Wise yes, but still maybe avoiding the real issue, making music.
Open Logic and make something in under an hour. Bin it. Repeat. Post some here if you like it.
Pick 1 library, only use that. Even if it has no percussion. Make it from the library. It’ll sound pants for the most part, but you’ll learn the DAW tools.


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## emilio_n (Jan 6, 2021)

I am overwhelmed, happy and motivated with all your answers and suggestions!
I will start to put in practice some of them right now and I promise to update this thread with my experience.

Is something really special to be part of the family of VI-C. Thanks to all for all your invaluable advice!


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## ptram (Jan 6, 2021)

We need new libraries dedicated to learners!

Paolo


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## JimDiGritz (Feb 11, 2022)

Sorry to zombie resurrect this thread from last year, but was really interested to hear from the OP emilio_n on whether he managed to find a good learning resource last year.

Maybe no one will read this so this might just serve as a personal journal entry to look back on!!!

I'm perhaps a little behind the OP on my journey, and am looking for some structured training that I can get my teeth into on a regular (1hr per day) basis. I really need the prompts on HOW to practice and how to build from my basic piano knowledge and rudimentary theory. Whilst I can grasp intervallic theory and at a theoretical level how the circle of 5ths fits together I don't really, intuitively understand how to apply them.

Perhaps finding a good online tutor might be a way to go...

FWIW I am on the Yousician pathway to try to make a dent in my basic keyboard skills and notation reading skills. I'm putting 30mins a day into this. No intention of ever performing, but to compose I appreciate that I need an instrument that I can lay my hands on and find all scales and chords. it's Feb 2022 and this journey alone feels pretty daunting.

ScoreClub looks great but since they don't make the first couple of Introduction lessons free, I have to assume that the pre-requisites are something I'm a couple of years away from having.


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