# Mac Pro clean install -- agony, but worth it



## JohnG (Dec 15, 2020)

Hi all,

I have resolved to clean install my DAW Mac Pro and see if that helps with some problems -- freezes in weird places, for instance.

I've never done that, so am hoping to get tips and pointers from others. Besides, this thread hopefully will be of some use to others.

I will use Carbon Copy Cloner first to make a bootable drive.

[edit: it's an early 2009 5,1 that had its CPU upgraded to 12 core 3.46GHz. Can't go beyond Mojave without replacing interfaces so probably will buy a different machine next time around]

Thanks!

John


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 15, 2020)

I just use the recovery mode to wipe the disk and reinstall (or install the newer version) of the OS. Then I use my Time Machine backup. You can just restore your applications and data from a Time Machine backup onto a fresh install using Migration Assistant. But I prefer to do a "true" clean install by installing all the software manually, and then just go into my Time Machine backup (directly via Finder) to get my files/data back on to the system drive.

I'm not sure if your old Mac Pro has the recovery mode though. I've been on iMacs since the late 2012 model, all of which had it.


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## JohnG (Dec 15, 2020)

Justin L. Franks said:


> I'm not sure if your old Mac Pro has the recovery mode though



I am not sure either. I think I will make an extra drag and drop copy of the boot drive so the files are "regular," rather than the CCC format.


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 15, 2020)

John, I will try to find a good web page with instructions for you. There are different ways to do it. You most likely have recovery mode, you can find out by holding down CMD-R for a long time while booting up, hold it down and wait a very long time until you see something different then usual on your screen, then you'll be in recovery mode. 

But first you have to make sure the Mojave installer is accessible on one of your drives. Then once you go to recovery mode you'll be able to run that installer, and you will have the option to wipe your drive first, using disk utility, etc. so that it will for sure be a clean install and not an upgrade.

Some people prefer to create a bootable USB flash drive or bootable DVD...with the installer on it...and then you just boot from that and run the installer, same thing, use Disk Utility to wipe the drive you plan to install to, and then run the installer. That avoids the recovery mode stuff if that is something you are not comfortable with. But you have to pre-make the bootable USB or DVD in order to do that method.


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 15, 2020)

JohnG said:


> I am not sure either. I think I will make an extra drag and drop copy of the boot drive so the files are "regular," rather than the CCC format.



CCC doesn't store the files in CCC format....it will save everything in regular format...just make sure you do the backup to an actual drive and not to a sparse bundle or anything like that. When you make a backup with CCC to another drive...then you can literally just choose that drive and boot from it if you want...I won't call it an actual "clone" because CCC is smart enough to not copy certain cache files and things that don't need to be copied. But for all intents and purposes...it is a clone..and its directly usable as is.


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## JohnG (Dec 15, 2020)

thanks @Dewdman42 

Can I use a USB formatted as ExFAT or should I format it as the mac journaled or whatever it is?


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 15, 2020)

just format it clean with Mac journaled...there are guides on the web about how to go about doing that...


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## JohnG (Dec 15, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> just format it clean with Mac journaled...there are guides on the web about how to go about doing that...



Sorry -- I meant the USB stick if I'm going to use that


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 15, 2020)

Create a bootable installer for macOS


You can use an external drive or secondary volume as a startup disk from which to install the Mac operating system.



support.apple.com


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## Virtuoso (Dec 15, 2020)

Assuming you're on Mojave rather than Apple Vista (Catalina) or the incompatibility swamp of Big Sur:-









How to Perform a Clean Installation of macOS 10.14 Mojave


This article guides you through the process of performing a clean installation of macOS 10.14 Mojave using the bootable USB drive method, rather than...




www.macrumors.com





The only fiddly bit is creating the bootable USB drive, but once that's done it's easy. Save it for next time!


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## sinkd (Dec 15, 2020)

Boot screen might not be available if you have upgraded to a metal graphics card. I lost that when I upgraded to Mojave.


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 15, 2020)

There is no boot screen with the metal card, but you don't need it. Recovery mode is after the boot screen. The only thing is it can be a little disconcerting to hold down CMD-R and not really know whether its actually working to get your there or not, because you just see a black screen...and recovery mode takes much much longer to boot up then the normal OS, so you'll be sitting there staring at the black screen for a few minutes wondering if its actually working...but it is and it will go to recovery mode just the same.

There is also a way to go to recovery mode by issuing certain commands on the command line before restarting, then you don't have to sit there holding CMD-R and waiting to find out in suspense...


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 15, 2020)

but make sure when you boot the USB media, you use the Disk Utility to wipe your destination drive before running the installer. I am not 100% confident it will completely overwrite your drive if you don't do that. To be absolutely sure, first run the Disk Utility (while either in recovery mode or from the bootable USB, which should provide that option all, check the menubar). Wipe your destination drive, and especially if its an SSD, make sure to format it as APFS, not Mac journaled. Then run the installer from there and you should be good to go..fresh install.

There are a bunch of options in Recovery mode to automatically install the last known version that was on your machine, or to automatically download and install the latest version of OSX and other things like that, and I'm not really familiar with the details of exactly what you can do that way or what exactly the procedure would be, I prefer to be explicit..I download exactly the OS I want to install, then I either make the bootable USB to do it...or there is a way to make it accessible from recovery mode and run it from there (after first running disk Utility first to make absolutely sure the previous installation is wiped off).


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 15, 2020)

One more comment... It may not even be necessary to use recovery mode nor to create a bootable USB...but I'm not entirely sure for Mojave. For Catalina, you can simply download and run the installer. It will ask you a few questions and then reboot itself into a kind of recovery mode, all by itself and runs the installer. It was very easy to do..but what I'm not sure about is whether the Mojave installer can do that, and I'm not sure if doing that method will make sure to wipe your destination drive before installing Mojave on it.


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## JohnG (Dec 15, 2020)

hmm-

So I clicked "get" from this site that @Easy Pickens kindly provided and it does work but I don't see how to get it on to a USB drive. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211683


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 15, 2020)

Create a bootable installer for macOS


You can use an external drive or secondary volume as a startup disk from which to install the Mac operating system.



support.apple.com





The only thing about the above instructions, its correct for how to create the bootable USB stick installer, but the instructions for actually booting with it are not correct for you with Metal GPU (the instructions above assume you get to the boot screen, which you will not). 

So basically before restarting your computer, so to System Preferences->Startup Disk, and choose the USB stick as the volume to boot to, then restart the computer.


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## emasters (Dec 15, 2020)

I did a MBP clean install last month - a lot of trepidation before, given the scope. My advice - get rid of the stuff you really don't use or need any longer. It's refreshing to not only have a new system with a clean install. But also liberating to have a more focused work environment. I did a time-machine backup in advance, then went in with Finder (on the Time Machine drive -- most recent backup folder) and manually copied back the items to keep. Wasn't as difficult or time-consuming as it would seem. Downloaded latest version plugins from each developer and reinstalled. And copied over sample libraries to new SSD's. It really helps that the MBP is fast and reboots quickly. Much better result taking the time to trim out the older, unused plugins and sample libraries.


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## JonS (Dec 15, 2020)

JohnG said:


> hmm-
> 
> So I clicked "get" from this site that @Easy Pickens kindly provided and it does work but I don't see how to get it on to a USB drive. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211683


Just make sure after you back up your files that you completely erase your internal boot drive and install a clean install of OS X. Don’t backup your old OSX and reinstall it on your Mac as that defeats the whole purpose.


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## jbuhler (Dec 15, 2020)

Deinstall and deauthorize anything that is authorized to the machine, including if you’ve authorized the machine for your iTunes. Otherwise you’ll lose those authorizations and possibly have to fight to get them back or at the least have to deauthorize all your machines (for iTunes) in order to recover the authorization.


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## Rory (Dec 15, 2020)

I do a clean install at least once a year. This involves erasing my hard drive and reinstalling my applications and plugins. I do this to get rid of remnants of junk that I no longer need, and because the gradual accumulation of "Other" storage annoys me 

While it's sure to make one apprehensive if one hasn't done it before, it is actually quite simple. Apple has perfectly good instructions on how to do it from Command/R: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904

I erase my 2018 Mac mini SSD from within Recovery by calling up Disk Utility. On current Macs, the hard drive has two separate components, Mac HD and Mac HD-Data. It is important to make sure that both are erased. I also have a Bootcamp drive. I leave that drive alone and it remains intact, unaffected by this process.

Before doing this, I make sure that I have a current list of applications and plugins. In a few cases, I need to deactivate the application or plugin before I erase the drive. I have 13.6GB of applications, and reinstalling them just doesn't take up that much time.

For me, data is not much of an issue. I keep almost all of my data on external drives, and before doing this I move what little there is to an external drive. A notable exception is unarchived mail, but it's on iCloud anyway and just repopulates my computer when I'm done. I use Keychain/iCloud for passwords, etc, so that kind of info also repopulates from iCloud.

There are a lot of articles on the internet about creating a USB Thumb install drive. These articles, and the process that they discuss, are obsolete and have been for a few years.


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## JonS (Dec 15, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Deinstall abs deauthorize anything that is authorized to the machine, including if you’ve authorized the machine for your iTunes. Otherwise you’ll lose those authorizations and possibly have to fight to get them back or at the least have to deauthorize all your machines (for iTunes) in order to recover the authorization.


This is important, make sure you deauthorize any and all plugins that don’t reside on an iLok or Vienna Key.

Also, don’t forget to deauthorize any software on your Mac too before you erase your boot drive.


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## Rory (Dec 15, 2020)

JonS said:


> This is important, make sure you deauthorize any and all plugins that don’t reside on an iLok or Vienna Key.
> 
> Also, don’t forget to deauthorize any software on your Mac too before you erase your boot drive.



As discussed in the post two up, I do this at least once a year. It's important to deactivate applications or plugins when necessary, but in my experience it is necessary for very few. Of all of the applications currently on my computer, the only ones that should be deactivated to avoid using up installs are Capture One and Photo Mechanic. The Spitfire App my also fall into this category, something that I plan to get clarification on before the next time I do this.


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## jbuhler (Dec 15, 2020)

Rory said:


> As discussed in the post two up, I do this at least once a year. It's important to deactivate applications or plugins when necessary, but in my experience it is necessary for very few. Of all of the applications currently on my computer, the only ones that should be deactivated to avoid using up installs are Capture One and Photo Mechanic. The Spitfire App my also fall into this category, something that I plan to get clarification on before the next time I do this.


Anything that is ilok but authorized to the computer is a potential problem. Arturia and izotope computer authorizations are two others that concern me. Izotope seems to have a computer authorization scheme that is distinct from when you authorize it to ilok.


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## Kent (Dec 15, 2020)

Just hire someone to have the headache for you


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## Rory (Dec 15, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Anything that is ilok but authorized to the computer is a potential problem. Arturia and izotope computer authorizations are two others that concern me. Izotope seems to have a computer authorization scheme that is distinct from when you authorize it to ilok.



Why is it a potential problem? I have done this at least once a year for several years and have never had an issue with iLok. iLok License Manager has activation/deactivation built into it.

I have also used iZotope RX, Insight, Ozone, Nectar and Neutron for years. Activation is handled by iZotope Product Portal. In the many clean reinstalls of my operating system and iZotope apps, I have not once had an issue with activation of iZotope apps. Indeed, there isn't even an activation/deactivation option in iZotope Product Portal (I just checked) 

I most recently did a new install last month when the final version of Big Sur was released.


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## JohnG (Dec 15, 2020)

Interestingly, the bootable USB stick with Mojave wouldn't work, because the installer thinks the computer is not metal-ready -- but it is.

So I'm starting using command_R to install Sierra and I'll upgrade from there.

Thanks for all the suggestions; onward.


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## Rory (Dec 15, 2020)

JohnG said:


> So I'm starting using command_R to install Sierra and I'll upgrade from there.



When you get into Recovery, there's a window with limited options in front of you, but check out the Menu bar on the top left. That's where the real controls are, and from that Menu you can control everything. That Menu works like any other Menu in MacOS.


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## jcrosby (Dec 15, 2020)

Rory said:


> Indeed, there isn't even an activation/deactivation option in iZotope Product Portal (I just checked)


It's in the plugin UI in the settings menu. And you _can_ run out of authorizations if you don't do this. Support will straighten it out if it happens but's it's usually at least a day of downtime before they re-authorize it on their end so best practice is to do this just in case since it only takes a sec...

RE THE OP: I send out emails to developers ahead of time with plugins that used machine-based authorization. Giving them a heads up can help fast track things if you run into a situation where something won't re-authorize.

And definitely! Launch ilok license manager and triple check you don't have anything machine-authorized in there!


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## Rory (Dec 15, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> It's in the plugin UI in the settings menu. And you _can_ run out of authorizations if you don't do this. Support will straighten it out if it happens but's it's usually at least a day of downtime before they re-authorize it on their end so best practice is to do this just in case since it only takes a sec...
> 
> RE THE OP: I send out emails to developers ahead of time with plugins that used machine-based authorization. Giving them a heads up can help fast track things if you run into a situation where something won't re-authorize.



This is a quote from iZotope: "We don't really do de-authorizations, as you can authorize your license to several computers, so long as they aren't all running the plugin at the same time!"

In over ten years of using iZotope applications, I have never had an issue with iZotope authorisations despite doing reinstalls at least once a year.

In my view, the preference that you refer to is about internal controls. It has nothing to do with getting activation on a reinstall.

When I do a reinstall I have a short list of applications that I de-authorise. My iZotope applications aren't on it. That has now worked for over a decade. If others want to add it, go for it.


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## jbuhler (Dec 15, 2020)

Rory said:


> Why is it a potential problem? I have done this at least once a year for several years and have never had an issue with iLok. iLok License Manager has activation/deactivation built into it.
> 
> I have also used iZotope RX, Insight, Ozone, Nectar and Neutron for years. Activation is handled by iZotope Product Portal. In the many clean reinstalls of my operating system and iZotope apps, I have not once had an issue with activation of iZotope apps. Indeed, there isn't even an activation/deactivation option in iZotope Product Portal (I just checked)
> 
> I most recently did a new install last month when the final version of Big Sur was released.


Only iloks authorized to the computer are an issue. The ones to the dongle are fine. Maybe with clean installs ilok can recognize the computer as the same. I haven't tried that, but I've lost authorizations when I had a system drive crash and reinstalled a new one.


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## jcrosby (Dec 15, 2020)

Rory said:


> This is a quote from iZotope: "We don't really do de-authorizations, as you can authorize your license to several computers, so long as they aren't all running the plugin at the same time!"
> 
> In over ten years of using iZotope applications, I have never had an issue with iZotope authorisations despite doing reinstalls at least once a year.
> 
> ...


You most certainly can run out of authorizations, especially with products that were authorized without using portal. And, they absolutely will iron it out if you do. I've used their products for 13-14 years now and have dealt with this many times over the years before portal was a thing. That's why they steered me to the UI at one point to point that out.


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## Rory (Dec 15, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Only iloks authorized to the computer are an issue. The ones to the dongle are fine. Maybe with clean installs ilok can recognize the computer as the same. I haven't tried that...



I have tried it, repeatedly and without any problems.


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## jbuhler (Dec 15, 2020)

Rory said:


> This is a quote from iZotope: "We don't really do de-authorizations, as you can authorize your license to several computers, so long as they aren't all running the plugin at the same time!"
> 
> In ten years of using iZotope applications, I have never had an issue with iZotope authorisations despite doing reinstalls at least once a year.
> 
> ...


I had to deinstall one of my Izotope plugins on an old machine in order to get it to run on the new machine, even though I wasn't using the plugin on the old machine. So this might be true for some of them but it's not true for all of them. Or there was something funky about my installation. It's true that Ozone didn't require deauthorization or anything but simply reinstalling. But the most recent clean install for me was a new machine when I had access to the old machine, so I could risk not deauthorizing. It's good to know that i don't need to be so paranoid about this, but losing authorizations after the system drive crash made me paranoid. (And every time I open the iLok manager, that old installation, which I have no way to access, sits there and taunts me.)


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## Rory (Dec 15, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> You most certainly can run out of authorizations and they absolutely will iron it out if you do. I've used their products for 13-14 years and have dealt with this many times over the years. Although it shouldn't happen it can, especially with products that were authorized without using portal.



Well I use iZotope Portal, and it has never been an issue. I'm fine with the verbatim quote from iZotope.

In any event, this is turning into a debate over which specific apps should be de-authorised and which shouldn't. It's going down a rabbit hole that is pretty peripheral to the main subject. Not worth arguing about.


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## jcrosby (Dec 15, 2020)

Rory said:


> Well I use iZotope Portal, and it has never been an issue. I'm fine with the verbatim quote from iZotope.
> 
> In any event, this is turning into a debate over which specific apps should be de-authorised and which shouldn't. It's going down a rabbit hole that is pretty peripheral to the main subject. Not worth arguing about.


This isn't a competition man, we're all here attempting to offer constructive advice. You're basically telling the OP not to worry about something that is very much a real world scenario, one I've run into several times over the past decade, and frankly something I had to deal with as recently as August which they straightened out in a day.


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## Rory (Dec 15, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> Do you have an inferiority complex or something? You're basically telling the OP not to worry about something that is very much a real world scenario, one I've run into several times over the past decade. And frankly something I had to deal with in August. It happens.



What? In my first post, I specifically flagged deactivating certain apps. I also said that in my case I regard it as a short list. I have no idea what apps he's using. He's a big boy and can figure out for himself what apps he's using that he thinks should be de-authorised.

I'm really not interested in participating in taking this discussion on a pointless detour, complete with personal attacks. Life is way too short.


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 15, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Interestingly, the bootable USB stick with Mojave wouldn't work, because the installer thinks the computer is not metal-ready -- but it is.
> 
> So I'm starting using command_R to install Sierra and I'll upgrade from there.
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions; onward.



That doesn't make sense. which video card do you have? You should definitely not have to upgrade from Sierra...and I don't think installing fresh would make any difference vs upgrading in terms of the metal card detection...unless something about your original mojave upgrade was not done completely right and perhaps you never had it properly installed to begin with. Are you sure you have a metal GPU?


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 15, 2020)

The two things that are suspicious to me are:


are you absolutely positive you applied the firmware update while going to High Sierra and another firmware update to Mojave? there is a way to verify that


Are you absolutely sure your GPU is Metal? which card is it? We can look around to see if anyone else had trouble installing Mojave with that particular card.


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## JohnG (Dec 15, 2020)

I installed High Sierra; it wouldn't install Sierra. Maybe there was some problem with my install USB for Mojave, maybe it has to go in stages, maybe it wouldn't take Sierra because I'd already upgraded the firmware when originally I upgraded to Mojave -- who knows?

Anyway High Sierra is working and I'm downloading the Mojave installer now. I'm sure it will all work out; if not I'll put the other drive in.

I'm sure the GPU is Metal compatible.

Probably finish in the morning. Thanks for the help guys!


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## samphony (Dec 15, 2020)

Rory said:


> Why is it a potential problem? I have done this at least once a year for several years and have never had an issue with iLok. iLok License Manager has activation/deactivation built into it.
> 
> I have also used iZotope RX, Insight, Ozone, Nectar and Neutron for years. Activation is handled by iZotope Product Portal. In the many clean reinstalls of my operating system and iZotope apps, I have not once had an issue with activation of iZotope apps. Indeed, there isn't even an activation/deactivation option in iZotope Product Portal (I just checked)
> 
> I most recently did a new install last month when the final version of Big Sur was released.



deauthorization is irrelevant if the machine stays the same = no change of hardware is planned!


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## JohnG (Dec 16, 2020)

So the dénouement:

Used a USB to install High Sierra (not "regular" Sierra) and was then able to install Mojave on that. Still updating the OS and after that comes the somewhat tedious process of reinstalling Kontakt, VE Pro etc.

Still, glad it mostly worked, even with a few hiccoughs. I moved Documents and even some of the installers to one of the other drives on this same computer before erasing the Macintosh HD drive, so those should be pretty quick.

Thanks everyone!


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## sinkd (Dec 17, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> The two things that are suspicious to me are:
> 
> 
> are you absolutely positive you applied the firmware update while going to High Sierra and another firmware update to Mojave? there is a way to verify that
> ...


I think the issue is that John's upgraded machine is a flashed 4,1 -> 5,1. I had the same experience when I upgraded to Mojave on mine.


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