# The Hunger Games Score - James Newton Howard



## ryanstrong (Mar 26, 2012)

Would love to know everyone's comments on The Hunger Games score by James Newton Howard. Danny Elfman was originally tapped for the project but Howard replaced him due to scheduling conflicts.

While I was watching the film I thought the music felt rushed. Not tempo, but just easy, shallow, and unfortunately forgettable. After looking up some things on this it sounds like it actually was... taken from an interview with JNH...



> *Talk to me about your time frame. You score quite a few movies in a year. It’s getting quite a lot-*
> 
> JNH: Too many.
> 
> ...




It's just unfortunate... I was really looking forward to this score. I was disappointed when Elfman left, but thought maybe James could do a good job.

Thoughts?

Take a listen... it's on Spotify ( http://open.spotify.com/album/6PH1qpo8wXTJnhZHnQi8YT ).

Do you think it's mostly sample based?


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## antoniopandrade (Mar 26, 2012)

The soundtrack as it is in the movie is very unimpressive. Didn't add anything, and in one particular moment, was very distracting and melodramatic. What I enjoyed most in this movie in fact is that is has so much silence. Really adds to the ramping tension throughout. Unfortunately I have to say, I didn't like the score, and to me it didn't sound like JNH at all (I'm a big fan of his work too).


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## ryanstrong (Mar 26, 2012)

antoniopandrade @ Mon Mar 26 said:


> What I enjoyed most in this movie in fact is that is has so much silence. Really adds to the ramping tension throughout. Unfortunately I have to say, I didn't like the score, and to me it didn't sound like JNH at all (I'm a big fan of his work too).



Totally agree. Man. What a waste. If Elfman was too busy, why did they go with an equally busy person who apparently didn't give the film the time of day?

I'm sure they still paid the JNH premium, and maybe some rush fees involved... ugh creatively and financially it doesn't make sense to me.


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## MacQ (Mar 26, 2012)

If you read his lips in that video, it's either 4 or 5 weeks he's saying. That's enough time to write a score, especially with all of his crew helping him out. Seriously, get stoned/drunk and jam out all of the themes in a few hours. Then spot the film meticulously over the next few days, then pass individual cues off to your team. If your team is big enough (I'm sure JNH's team is), you can crush through LOTS of music in a short period of time. At that budget level, you've got other people scheduling, contracting the orchestra, booking stages, recording, mixing, etc, so all you have to do is write music. 

I don't know why people need 3 months to do a film, to be honest. Do they think pondering in thought will really make their ideas any better? You're already shackled by someone else's picture, you know, and I think that if getting music out is a chore, maybe you shouldn't be a composer!

That's for film music, of course. I don't presume to tell you how long it should take you to write any other kinds of music. 

Anyway, I love JNH ... I may have to check out this film in theatres after all.

~Stu


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## ryanstrong (Mar 26, 2012)

MacQ @ Mon Mar 26 said:


> If you read his lips in that video, it's either 4 or 5 weeks he's saying. That's enough time to write a score...
> 
> I don't know why people need 3 months to do a film, to be honest. Do they think pondering in thought will really make their ideas any better? You're already shackled by someone else's picture, you know, and I think that if getting music out is a chore, maybe you shouldn't be a composer!



I think The Hunger Games score would be the obvious case as to why someone, even James Newton Howard, would need months, not weeks, to write a score.


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## JohnG (Mar 26, 2012)

If you have a couple of months you can spare time to think and reflect, to sleep on an idea and return to it refreshed. 

By contrast, if you have to produce 80 minutes in four weeks, it doesn't allow any time to really ruminate or "live" with the material. One has to just go with the first impulse, and that may be great or it may be less so.

I read that Bernard Herrmann had something like 12-14 weeks to score Citizen Kane.


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## choc0thrax (Mar 26, 2012)

I don't mind that this score sucks. As long as JNH doesn't score any films I actually want to see I'll be fi-- Nooo!!! Bourne Legacy!!!

Ehh I won't be paying attention to the music anyways as Renner kicks some dude through a plate glass window. Then again I am a big fan of the Powell scores...

Only listened to snippets but "Horn of Plenty" and "Preparing the Chariots" simultaneously made me ill yet confident in own lousy composing abilities.

And what's up with Elfman? I've never seen anyone with so many _scheduling conflicts_.


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## antoniopandrade (Mar 26, 2012)

two tim burton movies coming up... he must be busy


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## guydoingmusic (Mar 26, 2012)

I thought the lack of thematic material definitely hurt the character development. It sounded like a rush job all the way through. I've enjoyed some of his work... but this was a let down to say the least.

Having said all that, I guess you have to cut him a little slack for the time frame he was working in.

/brad


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## choc0thrax (Mar 26, 2012)

antoniopandrade @ Mon Mar 26 said:


> two tim burton movies coming up... he must be busy



Not to mention Oz and MIB 3... guess he is busy. 

I remember back in the day if someone told me Elfman had two upcoming scores for Burton films I'd be bursting with excitement... :lol: 

Anyways, looking forward to hearing what he does with Oz.


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## Kralc (Mar 27, 2012)

JohnG @ Mon Mar 26 said:


> I read that Bernard Herrmann had something like 12-14 weeks to score Citizen Kane.



I remember reading this, pretty crazy



> Randy Newman was initially hired to write the film score; however, Petersen considered his version to be almost a parody and commissioned Jerry Goldsmith to write and record a more sombre and patriotic score in just _twelve days_ (with an assist from Joel McNeely).After the harried experience, Goldsmith vowed never again to take on such a last-minute task.
> Newman used some of his material from the rejected score in Toy Story 3.


Then again could be someone trolling on wikipedia, but it's a bit too niche, so maybe not.

Best part about the Hunger Games was Jennifer Lawrence though.


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## stevenson-again (Apr 17, 2012)

Wow!

Guys here really didn't like it? That's amazing - I was conscious of it all the way through and thinking this was pretty amazing work - austere, very well crafted, and very different to the usual fare. I agree that it lacked some thematic devices or signatures - no one could come away from that film and be able to tell you when you heard a bit of music that that was 'Hunger Games' music - but the film clearly didn't set out to be that kind of ride in the first place.

If you go to an Indiana Jones film, or a Batman film or something similarly larger than life operatic then the music becomes part of the device that sells the experience. The 'Hunger Games' is a different kind of experience which is more focussed on trying to draw you into being as emotionally attached to the situation as possible. It's more like "The Fugitive" and it requires a different sort of touch.

I didn't know JNH had done it and I thought it was a relative unknown, because the gestures where unusual. As it went on I became more disconcerted that it was being extremely well handled - I felt no small relief seeing that it was JNH on the credits.

It was an extremely good film though. My daughters are mad for the books and report that it followed the books extremely closely. It's good when that happens - trying to reinvent the internal logic of a story rarely comes off.


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## antoniopandrade (Apr 17, 2012)

I still feel that JNH is most at home with the bombast and power of a full orchestra at his disposal, and a movie with a scope to match. Listen to what he did wit King Kong in about the same time frame he had to score The Hunger Games. It's in my opinion a far superior work, and it's one of the best scores I've ever heard for a modern epic.


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## dcoscina (Apr 17, 2012)

Akira Ifukube had 9 days to compose, orchestrate and record Gojira (aka Godzilla)


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## midphase (Apr 17, 2012)

JohnG @ Mon Mar 26 said:


> If you have a couple of months you can spare time to think and reflect, to sleep on an idea and return to it refreshed.
> 
> By contrast, if you have to produce 80 minutes in four weeks, it doesn't allow any time to really ruminate or "live" with the material. One has to just go with the first impulse, and that may be great or it may be less so.



I completely agree. Great art is most cases really requires time. Look at how much South Park has started to suck since they began squeezing an episode per week (including all the animation!)

BTW...just watched Cabin in the Woods and I really dug David Julyan's score, then again I'm a fan of his and IMHO he can do no wrong!


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## Niah (Apr 17, 2012)

midphase @ Tue Apr 17 said:


> BTW...just watched Cabin in the Woods and I really dug David Julyan's score, then again I'm a fan of his and IMHO he can do no wrong!



Too bad he is not working with nolan anymore :cry:


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## midphase (Apr 17, 2012)

Never say never.


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## MacQ (Apr 17, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATrcLCpUMRM


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## guydoingmusic (Apr 17, 2012)

midphase @ Tue Apr 17 said:


> Never say never.



that's what Justin Bieber says!


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## David Story (Apr 17, 2012)

stevenson-again @ Tue Apr 17 said:


> ... - I was conscious of it all the way through and thinking this was pretty amazing work - austere, very well crafted, and very different to the usual fare. I agree that it lacked some thematic devices or signatures - no one could come away from that film and be able to tell you when you heard a bit of music that that was 'Hunger Games' music - but the film clearly didn't set out to be that kind of ride in the first place.
> 
> ...
> 
> It was an extremely good film though. My daughters are mad for the books and report that it followed the books extremely closely. It's good when that happens - trying to reinvent the internal logic of a story rarely comes off.



I like the film and score a lot. It's JNH ambient, like in The Last Airbender or The Village, or The Fugitive as you said. "Austere" is a good word, also subtle. He really got into layering after the Batman collaboration, and he's always liked close-up solo instruments, esp. violin.

The special bits are the detailed acoustic guitar and dulcimer. I don't recall those in prior work, but happy to hear anything before. Or it could just be Doering hammering on his steel string  The 7 note motif on a solo instrument/section is kind of the gold standard for today, I'd have been more surprised if it developed into a melody! I do think the score has that kind of thematic device and signature sound. But subliminal for most folks, as you say.

My kids also liked the film, I thought it was a nice move towards science fiction and away from the supernatural teen movie.

Totally agree that a successful story can't be reinvented, only retold. But you can reimagine the telling in a new medium with new tools, and that can work great. I also love the soundtrack to John Carter, and that's more melodic. But also hard to remember. Catchy tunes are just not what producers want. But the audience loves them, afaict.

Too bad they got cheap and lost Gary Ross, but I'm up for the sequels!


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## stevenson-again (Apr 18, 2012)

The problem with 'catchy' tunes or strong melodic or interesting ideas is that during the process of putting together a modern film there will have been temps used to guide the editing that will have of necessity been somewhat generic. This colours the expectations of the directors and producers who would have made an emotional association with the material and the first bit of music used to in the edit. The film will most likely have been partly cut to the music as well, further locking in the temps hold on the film and the inherent expectation.

They will have lived with a certain magic that can be created when putting music to picture and composers can get really rough rides trying to put their stamp on the film, no matter how close to the temp they end up going - even if it is their own music. If there is enough time, and no one gets bogged down, the dirs/prods can be 'brought round', particularly if your replacement cue finds its way into other spots in the film before editing has finished. Even composers (I know I do) get stuck trying to 'beat the temp' because of the exact same emotional effect that causes the dirs and prods to become attached to it.

Then, it can also be the case that a very specific tone is wanted to be set, which precludes distinctive gestures such as interesting signatures or themes. You'll note that in HG, there was quite a bit of solo instrumentation used which is generally a technique to create intimacy. I can almost hear the brief: "We do not want an epic hollywood approach to this score. We do not want or need the emotionality to be over-blown as there is already a lot in the way the film has been shot. We want to retain as much as possible the sense of realism and not let it become an epic adventure."

Given a brief like that, I would be looking at making sure that I scaled back forces, or used large forces sparingly, look at slightly abstract gestures with solo instruments that pick up on the individualism of the characters and something of the associations with 'country-folk' that are present. Another approach might be to score it as if it were set in ancient times, since the analogy with ancient Roman culture is so evident in the film - in the sociology-poltical structure and the gladiatorial contest that constitutes the 'Hunger Games'. It might have been interesting to use ouds, and viols, and ancient flutes and percussion. The problem with that approach is that it might have been too cold. You would want to feel warmth for the main characters rather than the atmospheric quality that approach might have given.

If you really think about it, it's hard to imagine a more suitable approach than the one JNH took. Possibly had he had the time he might have found a way to make the music distinctive without losing the very specific function that the music had to serve in this film.


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## JohnG (Apr 18, 2012)

good post, Rohan. Thanks!


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## David Story (Apr 18, 2012)

I completely agree Rohan. 

I was trying to say that Americana heartland solo instruments are part of the signature sound here. I don't think it's generic, Howard scored the film with fresh variations on his ambient style. The atmospheric textures are pretty intricate, I think there are hundreds of tracks per cue. The Romanesque idea has potential, but I agree he took the right approach. Maybe the only feasible one. 

I too imagine the same brief, it was clear throughout the film, even the vfx.

Concerning melody, I feel it's another case of the audience being ahead of the producers. There's no doubt producers and editors misuse technology without being aware that they have compromised the film. I've actually heard them say that I'm free to do something different, go thru 6 revisions, and end up with the temp.

People still love catchy tunes, and being memorable doesn't preclude being warm, country-folk, and subtle. 

It's the Capitol that wants conformity, the people want freedom. 

Again, I love JNH's score, it's one of his best. I like the mix of acoustic and electronic.

BTW, the myth here is a female Theseus, which seems to resonate very strongly with "Gen i". I think it's the same with melody, there is a collective memory of great melodies like there's a collective memory of great myths. When we are in touch with that, and communicate it clearly, their are great artistic and financial rewards.

My specific suggestions: 
1.editors mute the temp.
2.directors commission a suite for the editor to cut to.
3.get the composer, music sup, sound design lead together before post begins.
4.composers form bands to play film music concerts.


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## noiseboyuk (Apr 18, 2012)

antoniopandrade @ Tue Apr 17 said:


> I still feel that JNH is most at home with the bombast and power of a full orchestra at his disposal, and a movie with a scope to match. Listen to what he did wit King Kong in about the same time frame he had to score The Hunger Games. It's in my opinion a far superior work, and it's one of the best scores I've ever heard for a modern epic.



Now here's the problem. As a movie, King Kong sucked - overblown, overlong, ulitmately forgettable. Hunger Games - a modern classic. It had it's problems to be sure - I could write for an hour about them but I'll spare everyone the tedium of having to skip over it.

My point is this. The score of a film is good if it serves the movie well. The Hunger Games clearly works as a movie, so there's a good chance the score works too. In fact, I was rarely aware of the score because I was involved in the film - a good sign right there. There were some specific musical moments I noticed at the time, and I liked all of them except one - some generic chase percussion somewhere in the 2nd half. I remember the build before the start of the games was staggeringly effective - Jennifer Lawrence was beyond brilliant, but afterwards (and it absolutely was afterwards) I had reflected the music / sound design played a major part... I may have misremembered how it really was, all I know is that it worked.

I'm listening to it now on Spotify. It sounds terrific, and yes its bringing the film back to me. It has that dense, serious but somehow beautiful tone than JNH does well, and serves the film really well in this case. The film would have been infinitely poorer without someone of Lawrence's brilliance in the lead, but this score certainly helped too.

I definitely don't agree that JHN is best with a full bombastic orchestra - I like is more reflective stuff far more. I'm not sure if The Village counts as "full orchestra", but that's a terrific score, which totally helps the atmosphere of the film.

Oh, and finally - I definitely agree with the silence comments. This was a fundamentally well made movie. It had space and pacing, and therefore impact where it counted.

Wow, this soundtrack is ace, gonna buy it now. Thanks for the tip off...


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## noiseboyuk (Apr 19, 2012)

For anyone who has the soundtrack - JNH uses a great simple little string motif, but it's really familiar. Can anyone else place it, or is it the case of it being one of those golden "sounds so simple and good I MUST have heard it before" moments? First example starts in Katniss Afoot @1.20 ish.


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## stevenson-again (Apr 19, 2012)

the bit you are talking about is reminiscent of Thomas Newman somewhere....Road to Perdition perhaps? It's a fairly typical sequence the raised sixth in the minor - it's all over the Narnia stuff. It's the groove that's making think of something else though I think.

Don't agree with you about King Kong btw. It's better than the Lord of the Rings IMO. But I agree the score was amazing for KK.

I also recommend what he did with Lady in the Water. I loved loved loved that film - very clever subversion of story-telling. But JNH performed his usual brilliance on that. His score for the Last Airbender was about the only good thing about that movie....


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## choc0thrax (Apr 19, 2012)

stevenson-again @ Thu Apr 19 said:


> His score for the Last Airbender was about the only good thing about that movie....



Great score. Still listen to this almost daily:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mTANle_IcQ


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## noiseboyuk (Apr 19, 2012)

stevenson-again @ Thu Apr 19 said:


> the bit you are talking about is reminiscent of Thomas Newman somewhere



Funny you should say that, there's another motif that is amazingly close to the stoic theme from Shawshank.


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## ryanstrong (Apr 19, 2012)

For me my biggest issue is not the genre/style, arrangement, instruments or JNH himself, but simply put... *it just could have been SO much better*.

As some of you have mentioned, and wether you agree or not, this film is a modern classic, SO why not allow time to create a score that can be regarded truly as a great modern classic? Sorry, the score was just disappointing and undeserving even though JNH was thoughtful.

Does it suffice, sure. Was JNH tasteful, yes. And no I do not think it needed to have a Williams-esque Action/Adventure cue, but as a fan of the Hunger Games and a composer it just is frustrating to know that the soundtrack could have be GREAT not just acceptable, and it makes me wonder how JNH felt about the end result and wether he was truly satisfied with it. From the interview, linked above, it was very clear that JNH didn't like how things went with regard to the time.


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## ryanstrong (May 23, 2012)

The difference...

"I found my initial inspiration... in the words of Tolkein." "...his book was always open on my desk." - Howard Shore on his work for _The Lord of the Rings_

Watch it here...
http://youtu.be/ybZINoDv8I8

If only this would have been the case with James Newton Howard. As mentioned earlier there were time constraints and The Hunger Games trilogy are vastly different compared to The Lord of the Rings trilogy both in content and perhaps timeless quality, but I just wish this attitude and approach of perfection and discipline could have happened with The Hunger Games even though James' score has grown on me since my initial listen, perhaps more-so because of sentimental value then anything.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 4, 2013)

THREAD REVIVAL!

*BIG BUT POLITE REQUEST FOR NO SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD ON THIS FILM OR THE OTHER BOOKS THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU*

Very much liked the movie Catching Fire. And the score. Some cues appeared to be from film 1, re-used wholesale, but they still worked great. Hey, do you get 50% off this soundtrack if you own the first one?

I remember that the one cue I didn't like in film 1 was the big chase thing which felt like a big drum cliche, quite out of keeping with the rest. I was dimly aware during the equivalent scene in film 2, the music sounded great, all really harsh rhythmic strings (it was a better scene too). My lone gripe for this one - acoustic guitar. You'll know the bit I mean if you've seen it. Shocking shame, I can only guess JNH was forced at gunpoint to do that.


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## Ed (Dec 4, 2013)

midphase @ Tue Apr 17 said:


> I completely agree. Great art is most cases really requires time. Look at how much South Park has started to suck since they began squeezing an episode per week (including all the animation!)



Whoa Whoa Whoa... Firstly South Park has been squeezing in an episode a week for YEARS and YEARS. Secondly, South Park is still great, generally speaking. Go watch Season 1 again, now that sucks.


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## SamGarnerStudios (Dec 4, 2013)

Healing Katniss is such a beautiful cue, gets me everytime.


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## ryanstrong (Dec 4, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Dec 04 said:


> Hey, do you get 50% off this soundtrack if you own the first one?



Ha! It's a shame. If I had to guess why... *time*. Again It baffles me why films like this get a few short weeks to work on the music.


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## choc0thrax (Dec 4, 2013)

Ed @ Wed Dec 04 said:


> Secondly, South Park is still great, generally speaking.



Wait, did you just refer to the latest season as 'great'? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm m. mmmm


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## Ed (Dec 4, 2013)

choc0thrax @ Wed Dec 04 said:


> Ed @ Wed Dec 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Secondly, South Park is still great, generally speaking.
> ...



I've enjoyed most of the recent episodes, although maybe 2 or 3 were a bit shit. Anyway the point is they've been concieving, writing and producing episodes in a week or less than a week for much longer than last season. I remember them talking about doing that all the way back with Go God Go and Imagination Land as if it was normal for them. Quite impressive as they are quite coherent narratives.


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## milesito (Dec 5, 2013)

Yea the hunger games soundtrack is not at all memorable. I read Hans zimmer did pirates in like 3 weeks replacing Horner. I would say that score was pretty good.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 5, 2013)

milesito @ Thu Dec 05 said:


> Yea the hunger games soundtrack is not at all memorable. I read Hans zimmer did pirates in like 3 weeks replacing Horner. I would say that score was pretty good.



I disagree - the themes are definitely in my head. It's relatively subtle (well, except the big main theme used in the "show" which is as big and bombastic as it should be), but very effective imo. It's a series that trades on atmosphere, and JNH's score is a big part of that.


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## Ganvai (Dec 5, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ 5th December 2013 said:


> milesito @ Thu Dec 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Yea the hunger games soundtrack is not at all memorable. I read Hans zimmer did pirates in like 3 weeks replacing Horner. I would say that score was pretty good.
> ...



I'm with Guy. This soundtrack supports the atmosphere of those movies excelent. It has so much tension in itself but is so fragile at the same time. JNH did a wonderful job.

@Milesito: As I know Alan Silvestri was the composer for Pirates before he left the project (at a very early state of the production). I think Hans Zimmer was working at the same time for The Last Samurai and he wasn't allowed to score another project at the same time (was a special restriction for this movie), so he wrote a demo and worked on the score together with Klaus Badelt. Also, seven other composers have been working on this score too. I remember another source that said there have been 15 other composers who worked on that score.

These two movies and soundtracks are completly different. How can you compare them? Couldn't be more awkward to hear an adventurous theme like the pirates theme when those kids start to kill each other... 

Maybe it doesn't entertain you that much while listening to it from cd, but at least it just matters if the soundtrack fits to the movie...


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## Daryl (Dec 5, 2013)

The thing about JNH scores (for me) is that not only are they always professionally crafted and tend to work with the picture very well, but there are usually a couple of really nice cues at important moments. I think that with lesser composers the latter is what I miss the most.

There are dozens of people who can write a professional score that works well with the picture, but where most fail is that when you really want to hear the music, they can't cut it.

D


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 5, 2013)

+1 to you both


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## dgburns (Dec 5, 2013)

Daryl @ Thu Dec 05 said:


> The thing about JNH scores (for me) is that not only are they always professionally crafted and tend to work with the picture very well, but there are usually a couple of really nice cues at important moments. I think that with lesser composers the latter is what I miss the most.
> 
> There are dozens of people who can write a professional score that works well with the picture, but where most fail is that when you really want to hear the music, they can't cut it.
> 
> D



+1. actually noticed a few really good cues in the first film.And is it just the trailer,or is there a whislte motif ala Good the bad the ugly floating around here and there ?


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## mark812 (Dec 5, 2013)

Nice and subtle score, enjoyed it.


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 26, 2014)

Just back from seeing 3A, which was really terrific imo. Knocked out that a film series for teenage girls (ostensibly) is about politics, corruption, fame as a controlling mechanism and the manipulating power of the media. Really rather excited about that. Best blockbuster series of our generation, for me - keep your Hobbits and your superheroes.

And really terrific stuff from JHN again. Quite a few departures from the first two which were very similar, fittingly as this film goes into new territory, and some beautiful call backs too. I think his themes are serving the series brilliantly, and there so much skill and grace in everything he does. Probably my score of the year so far actually.

I often think of the OP in this old thread, and how way off the mark it was (sorry Ryan...)


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## ryanstrong (Nov 26, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Nov 26 said:


> Just back from seeing 3A, which was really terrific imo. Knocked out that a film series for teenage girls (ostensibly) is about politics, corruption, fame as a controlling mechanism and the manipulating power of the media. Really rather excited about that. Best blockbuster series of our generation, for me - keep your Hobbits and your superheroes.
> 
> And really terrific stuff from JHN again. Quite a few departures from the first two which were very similar, fittingly as this film goes into new territory, and some beautiful call backs too. I think his themes are serving the series brilliantly, and there so much skill and grace in everything he does. Probably my score of the year so far actually.
> 
> I often think of the OP in this old thread, and how way off the mark it was (sorry Ryan...)



Guy I agree with you. I had too many pre-conceived notions that worked against JNH going in to the film and score. I had read the books and imagined a more melodic Williams type of score. Simply because thats just my inherent frame of reference for sci-fi/adventure type stories.

But JNH did a good job and I have since taken back most of what I've said because after listening to the original score for a couple years it has definitely grown a LOT on me.

So yeah, I agree man. Change of heart.


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 26, 2014)

Ah, great to hear, Ryan! Glad you're enjoying them as much as I am.


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## guydoingmusic (Nov 26, 2014)

ryanstrong @ Wed Nov 26 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Wed Nov 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Just back from seeing 3A, which was really terrific imo. Knocked out that a film series for teenage girls (ostensibly) is about politics, corruption, fame as a controlling mechanism and the manipulating power of the media. Really rather excited about that. Best blockbuster series of our generation, for me - keep your Hobbits and your superheroes.
> ...



I must say... I read the books FIRST! So, I definitely went into the first movie with expectations galore all to leave a bit disappointed. I still feel that the first film was the weakest in the series. Felt like they should have split it up just like they have the final 2 films to give more time for character development. 

However, the last 2... I was much more impressed with every aspect. So, I guess they did a pretty good job after all with laying a foundation in the first film.


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## noxtenebrae17 (Nov 27, 2014)

"Air Raid Drill" is one of JNH's finest cues in years. Really wonderful intense textures, harmonic progression, and orchestration.


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## AC986 (Nov 27, 2014)

I saw the first one on tv the other day. Thought it was drivel.

It was Battle Royale meets Gormanghast and a whole load of other things thrown in.


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 27, 2014)

guydoingmusic @ Thu Nov 27 said:


> I must say... I read the books FIRST! So, I definitely went into the first movie with expectations galore all to leave a bit disappointed. I still feel that the first film was the weakest in the series. Felt like they should have split it up just like they have the final 2 films to give more time for character development.
> 
> However, the last 2... I was much more impressed with every aspect. So, I guess they did a pretty good job after all with laying a foundation in the first film.



I kinda hope they revist film 1 at the end of it all. Everything until the games felt rushed and a bit superficial, while the games themselves were let down by that awful CGI sequence. Next to the two that have followed, it really lacks weight. I don't know how much else they shot, but I think quite a lot could be achieved in post in a redux kinda way, but I can't think of any precedent for this (Close Encounters sort of, but that was a mess for other reasons it took 20 years to fix). I know they had a much reduced budget. Wonder if it would financially make sense for them to throw $20m at it, shoot some prologue backstory, expand the world and fix the bad CGI, releasing it as a special edition.

Film 2 feels almost exactly right (not having read the books) though there's a critical scene they inexplicably cut, part of the two-way between Donald Sutherland and Philip Seymour Hoffman where the significance of the Mockingjay is discussed. It's on the Blu Ray (along with the usual run of nothingy bits that were more understandably cut). I'm not sure I'd want film 2 longer, though I'm pretty sure film 1 would benefit. Actually the first 15 minutes of Mockingjay part 1 were the weakest too, I'd have cut most of that, but once they start filming the propaganda it's terriific from there to the end. Kinda Network meets Zero Dark Thirty, really intelligently done I thought.

There again I really like this brooding builder type films. In the Harry Potter series, I thought the first part of 7 was - by FAR - the best of the series. First time I cared about the characters, there was a terrific sense of atmosphere and dread and the few moments of action therefore had impact, most of the rest of the series was a giddy rush of setpieces, in some cases totally incomprehensible (film 4 was atrocious). I heard someone else make the suggestion that by expanding these films out, they're making a nod to this golden era of TV, where people are demanding a bit more depth. It's long been the case that a full novel would be around 12 hours if made into a film, and that's one reason why most adaptations get the "not as good as the book" tag. Not that a film needs to be a literal adaptation word for word, but if you're engaged by a novel, most likely it's the characters you've bonded with, and that stuff tends to need some time and space.


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## Matt Hawken (Nov 27, 2014)

noiseboyuk @ Thu Apr 19 said:


> For anyone who has the soundtrack - JNH uses a great simple little string motif, but it's really familiar. Can anyone else place it, or is it the case of it being one of those golden "sounds so simple and good I MUST have heard it before" moments? First example starts in Katniss Afoot @1.20 ish.



It reminds me of the BBC Sherlock opening title theme, but may that's just the Dorian dulcimer...


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## Mike Connelly (Dec 1, 2014)

I've liked the scores so far and looking forward to hearing the soundtrack from the third. From the first one, I thought using the Appalachian instruments was a great touch. The big bombastic themes for the capital TV broadcast are nicely done as well, I know he's kind of mocking sort of patriotic stuff as well as TV sports things but the end result still makes for solid film music.

I'm surprised the reviews for the third haven't been better, I thought all three have been really good so far. Totally agree that it's nice for mainstream blockbuster type fare to include some social and political commentary, in the end these are more about propaganda and media manipulation than anything else. With some nice moral ambiguity thrown in. If they don't screw up the fourth one this has a shot at being one of the better franchises in recent years.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 1, 2014)

Mike Connelly @ Mon Dec 01 said:


> in the end these are more about propaganda and media manipulation than anything else.



Life imitating art... chilling.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/n ... mes-salute


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