# Rethinking my keyboard controller - Recommendations? S61 mk2 or P6?



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 22, 2019)

i've had a Studiologic SL88 Studio for a while now and i love it.

i will be moving next week - studio is broken down for the move.

i was thinking about shifting to a 61 key controller to slim down for a while.

thoughts?

Komplete Kontrol S61 mk2?

$729

no sliders - i have my AKAI MPD-232, but would like to streamline






Nektar Panorama P6?

$599

sliders







others?


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 22, 2019)

I plan to get the S61 pretty soon. Mainly because of the feel of the keys, but with Komplete Ultimate, it would be fun to use the Komplete Kontrol interface sure. Also, it comes with Maschine, which I plan to use for arranging. But its lacking in sliders/knobs compared to some other offerings, no question about that. Mainly, I tested every 61-88 key keyboard I could find and the S61 has the best feel and quiet keyboard IMHO, but its a personal preference.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 22, 2019)

https://wisepick.org/best-61-key-midi-controller/


interesting NI didn't make the list.

P6 was #2.


----------



## webs (Jun 22, 2019)

One thing that may or may not influence your decision: you can't turn the guide lights off on the s61 mkII. They're handy when you want them, but some folks don't want them on all the time. There have been several requests to NI to add on/off feature, but currently, folks have to just cover them up.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 22, 2019)

webs said:


> One thing that may or may not influence your decision: you can't turn the guide lights off on the s61 mkII. They're handy when you want them, but some folks don't want them on all the time. There have been several requests to NI to add on/off feature, but currently, folks have to just cover them up.




Good to know.

Thanks.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 22, 2019)

I didn't know the P6 had weighted keys. I would be more interested in that knowing that. I think it also might be too deep to fit on my desk, can't remember now. There was something about the Panorama line that steered me towards the S61, can't remember now, oh well...but I haven't bought anything yet...its not too late.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 22, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> I didn't know the P6 had weighted keys. I would be more interested in that knowing that. I think it also might be too deep to fit on my desk, can't remember now. There was something about the Panorama line that steered me towards the S61, can't remember now, oh well...but I haven't bought anything yet...its not too late.




https://societyhealth.org/turmeric-...ZWklAN1U4u0w1M_YigsitDrP-bFiHdI8aApNkEALw_wcB

looks sweet.

nice Cubase demo - since i just switched.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jun 22, 2019)

I used to have a P6, and sold it and bought an S61 MK I, which I found much better.

The P6 was awful to play. The white and black notes felt as if they belonged to different keyboards and were pretty noisy. I heard a rumour that they may have improved this - but I'd definitely double check.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 22, 2019)

There it is. I can say honestly the S61 action is superb for semi-weighted. I think i'd rather get something with great action and then a separate device of some kind with faders..maybe even the Nektar one! But...I didn't know the guide lights are always on!?!? Does that include when I'm not using NI instruments?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 22, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> I used to have a P6, and sold it and bought an S61 MK I, which I found much better.
> 
> The P6 was awful to play. The white and black notes felt as if they belonged to different keyboards and were pretty noisy. I heard a rumour that they may have improved this - but I'd definitely double check.



Also good to know.

I'm leaning toward staying with my SL88 Studio and Akai MPD232.

Thanks for the great responses.


----------



## gyprock (Jun 22, 2019)

I recently purchased the Nektar Impact LX88+ and am very happy with it. It’s light, slim, has a great feel and is well integrated into a number of DAWs. My Kawai MP7 now sits disconnected from my DAW for use as a piano for when I want to switch off from technology.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 22, 2019)

The LX88 was my 2nd choice of all the ones I was able to try. It has a lot to like about it also, especially the price for what it is.


----------



## HeliaVox (Jun 22, 2019)

The p6 does not have weighted keys. I used to own one, and while the integration with DAWS was really good, the keybed was the worst thing I have EVER played. Noisy, soft, squishy, spongy. I have heard that the build quality has gotten better in their other keyboards, but man, I couldn't sell my P6 fast enough. If you like the idea of the integration that Nektar has, try their P1 and keep the Studiologic.


----------



## Eckoes (Jun 23, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> I used to have a P6, and sold it and bought an S61 MK I, which I found much better.
> 
> The P6 was awful to play. The white and black notes felt as if they belonged to different keyboards and were pretty noisy. I heard a rumour that they may have improved this - but I'd definitely double check.



I have the Panorama P4 and the keys are not great. They are certainly noisy. I am not a keyboard player at all so it’s fine for my needs as a step-entry/overdub “player” but I really dislike the noise.

I think the keybed for some other Nektar models has been improved but I’m not certain about the P Series.

As a DAW controller I really like it, but I have been, for a while, considering switching to an S61 MK2 (along with Metagrid, which I already use)


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 23, 2019)

this one looks like a great option.

$499.

https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/arturia-keylab-mkii


----------



## webs (Jun 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> There it is. I can say honestly the S61 action is superb for semi-weighted. I think i'd rather get something with great action and then a separate device of some kind with faders..maybe even the Nektar one! But...I didn't know the guide lights are always on!?!? Does that include when I'm not using NI instruments?



Yes, unfortunately. Even when you don't need/want them.

EDIT: To be fair, I should add that despite the lights, I also really like the action and playability (and overall useability) of the s61 mkII.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 23, 2019)

the lights are on when its in so called midi mode?


----------



## webs (Jun 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> the lights are on when its in so called midi mode?



Oh, not sure about if it's only connected via midi cables and not usb (but then don't you lose most of the functionality?). But if it's usb cabled in, those lights are on for every key, even if you press the midi button on the keyboard.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 23, 2019)

I don't know the details, since I don' have one yet, but there is a so called midi mode, I'm not sure it has to be using the midi interface or whether it can work in midi mode via usb too, but in that mode it behaves differently and a lot of those features including the lights I would presume, are off. I was always under the impression the lights are only on if you're using Komplete Kontrol plugin or Kontakt. I would be annoyed if the lights are just on some random lit up mode while trying to use completely different plugins.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> the lights are on when its in so called midi mode?









At my local GC

Lights on.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 23, 2019)

boo, that's super annoying for me...


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 23, 2019)

Metal case!!!

Arturia 61 key out of stock.

But my local GC rocks and will let me buy this 49 key until the 61 comes in.


----------



## josephspirits (Jun 23, 2019)

Not sure if this helps but I recently got the Komplete Kontrol M32 to sit on my desktop above my behemoth sized Kurzweill PC88 and have been pleasantly surprised by using the two together. What I mean is I can do all the browsing and tweaking and Komplete Kontrol stuff but also play on the 88 weighted keys without having to shell out all the money for the fancy 88 key Native Instruments keyboard. They are both on Midi channel 1, Logic Pro X. I have also done the same thing with other medium sized M-Audio keyboards when moving location. 

Just thought it might be useful to know that you can have Komplete Kontrol integration on the cheap and the flexibility of still playing different keyboards that are not Native Instruments made.


----------



## HeliaVox (Jun 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> the lights are on when its in so called midi mode?



Yes the lights are always on. It's not as annoying as you think, ymmv


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 23, 2019)

HeliaVox said:


> Yes the lights are always on. It's not as annoying as you think, ymmv



Seeing it in person, it really isn't that bad.

But


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 23, 2019)

Yes please and thank you.

61 in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Vik (Jun 23, 2019)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Nektar Panorama P6?


If you need something which works right now, out of the box: Nektars P and T series are having some auto-detect issues with Logic 10.4.5 at the moment. http://support.nektartech.com/s.nl/ctype.KB/it.I/id.14784/KB.746/.f


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 23, 2019)

Vik said:


> If you need something which works right now, out of the box: Nektars P and T series are having some auto-detect issues with Logic 10.4.5 at the moment. http://support.nektartech.com/s.nl/ctype.KB/it.I/id.14784/KB.746/.f




I went with Arturia.


----------



## 5Lives (Jun 23, 2019)

I personally really like the S61 - great keys, great mod wheel, and easy to customize the little knobs (nice to have the screen to see what everything is assigned to immediately - and you can rename the text labels to whatever - like "PORT CTRL" or something). I don't use Komplete Kontrol so the light guide is useless to me right now, but if I was live keyswitching, it would be cool. I prefer to play everything in and then use Logic's articulations to edit the notes though. The DAW transport controls work nicely in Logic too, which is a cool bonus. If I were to get a new keyboard, I'd want one with faders (preferably with LCDs for easy info) but same width and depth as the S61 for my desk.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 23, 2019)

I went back and looked at my notes from a few months ago when I went to GuitarCenter to test myself. What I had down was that the feel of the S61 was the best, but the quietest keybed was the LX88+. The LX88+, for the money, has incredible features, 88 semi weighted keys and lots of extra pads and features. and its cheap honestly. But the other slightly weird thing about that keyboard is that the black keys are stiffer then the white keys. In comparison the S61 had a perfectly smooth and consistent high quality fatar keybed. It has limited controls, but if you use NI stuff, the integration is fabulous for that. And slightly noisier keybed then the LX88+, but not as loud as some others. 

AKAI also has one that was a strong contender. Keybed quite decent in its own way with a lots of cool pads, knobs and sliders and VIP integration which is more open then NI KK. But I felt the keys were non-standard length or something. But that would be my third choice.

All the other keyboards I tried had cheap feeling keybeds or were noisy as F__ to play and I didn't even bother to investigate them further.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 23, 2019)

i thought the Arturia was as nice as the S61 and better than the Akai.

the overall feel of the Arturia is superb (keys, knobs, sliders).

the connectivity is fantastic (rear panel).

metal case and metal wheels are a nice touch too.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 23, 2019)

Its a nice looking keyboard and I have no doubt its got great functionality. I haven't been able to play that one to know the keybed. In the past I have not been impressed with Arturia keybeds though.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 23, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> In the past I have not been impressed with Arturia keybeds though.



me neither.

that's why i didn't consider them at the start of this thread.

the MK2 seems a different animal from previous models.

only a day in, we shall see in the next week or so until the 61 key model shows up.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 23, 2019)

Keep us posted. I’m wondering how the novation 61slmk3 is also


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 24, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> Keep us posted. I’m wondering how the novation 61slmk3 is also



as i product design/engineer by day, i can't get passed the styling and layout of the Novation.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 25, 2019)

second day in, liking this thing more by the hour.

the DAW integration is very nice.

the user area has 10 slots - perfect for setting up CCs for different VIs.

Analog Lab 3 looks good, i'm not registering the 49 since i will be returning it to trade for the 61. so, i haven't had a chance to mess with the included software.



MIDI Control Center works flawlessly.






overall aesthetic and build quality is excellent.

tip o' the hat to my local Guitar Center (Redmond, WA) for letting me slobber over the 49 until the 61 ships.

the 49 mk2 form factor is an attractive option, though.

growing Arturia fanboy.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 25, 2019)

just saw Analog Lab 4 is out!!!


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 25, 2019)

key action?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 25, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> key action?




brisk.

light yet tactile.

responsive and inspiring coming from the SL88.

comparable to the S61, i think

but i'm a bass player, so what do i know?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 26, 2019)

checked on my KEYLab 61 mk2 order through Guitar Center, they pushed the ship date from 7/3 to 7/23.

returned the KEYLab 49 mk2, cancelled the 61 mk2 order.

quickly ordered the 61 mk2 through B&H, delivery scheduled for Tuesday, 7/2.


----------



## LudovicVDP (Jun 26, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> The LX88 was my 2nd choice of all the ones I was able to try. It has a lot to like about it also, especially the price for what it is.



I have the LX88, but the first gen so I can't say anything about the new one. I guess it's not so different.
I like the price tag. Can't beat it. 
I like the small height/weight which makes is easy to slide under my self-build desk.
I like the Cubase integration.
I have emailed their support team once. They were wonderfully nice and fast and the problem got solved. Shout out to them.

The downside: I find it simply unplayable. Not a problem for most of what I need it for (which is composing, not practicing Chopin) but if you're a pianist looking for a piano feel, you might consider another keyboard.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 27, 2019)

It’s not a weighted controller, it should not be compared to one


----------



## LudovicVDP (Jun 27, 2019)

I'm not comparing it to anything. Just listing my personal pros and cons on this keyboard.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 27, 2019)

Well you evaluated it ad inferior for playing Chopin which is of course true because it’s not a weighted controller. There is no point to consider it for that purpose. Of course it would have terrible performance for that, it’s not designed for it. Compare the action to other semi weighted controllers and the relevant playing tasks


----------



## LudovicVDP (Jun 27, 2019)

Ok... Sorry for my stupid and obvious comment then...


----------



## MexicanBreed (Jun 27, 2019)

I've been drooling over the keylab mkii (over the images of them in the screen, anyhow), and this thread is really pushing me towards splurging and getting it.

Zoot, you mentioned the DAW integration... I haven't really found anything more extensive on the matter. What is your experience on this regard, what has stood out to you? I have also thought of adding a one-fader control surface, but would be happy if I can dispense with it by using the Arturia.


----------



## chimuelo (Jun 27, 2019)

I get to play on various grand pianos several times a year playing classical pieces, jazz and my own barrel house versions of pop.
I prepare for gigs by playing on a semi weighted Physis K4 for rehashing tunes because I can play for hours with no fatigue.
Then days leading up to the gig practice on the ancient Yamaha KX88 which is more difficult than a real piano.
When I play the grand piano available at the gig it’s a walk in the park after the damn near metal key Steam Calliope action of the Yamaha.

Years ago after choking on the grand I bought the Yamaha for that reason and it really helped since I don’t own a Grand Piano.

I use to do recitals, juries, practice for hours in the dark with silent metronomes.
Years went by without touching a real piano.
Amazing how rusty you can get by not having one.

My Casio PX-3S is considered by many to have great weighted action. It’s nice but nothing like a real piano, but thankfully not as tortuous as the ancient KX88’s.
You can buy one used for a few hundred bucks since nobody likes them.

If you can pull off Rachmaninov’s Concerto 3 in D Minor of Chopins Fantasie Impromptu at the fastest tempos you can restore any pride lost from not having a real Piano.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 27, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> I get to play on various grand pianos several times a year playing classical pieces, jazz and my own barrel house versions of pop.
> I prepare for gigs by playing on a semi weighted Physis K4 for rehashing tunes because I can play for hours with no fatigue.
> Then days leading up to the gig practice on the ancient Yamaha KX88 which is more difficult than a real piano.
> When I play the grand piano available at the gig it’s a walk in the park after the damn near metal key Steam Calliope action of the Yamaha.
> ...



I had a KX88 for a few years back in the early '90s.

Needed it for my composition class since they wouldn't accept electric bass as my performance instrument.

I got it because i read it was Jerry Goldsmith's controller of choice.

What a beast.

You could get them pretty cheap back then too.

Silent metronome in the dark.

'They' should make a plugin for that.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 27, 2019)

MexicanBreed said:


> I've been drooling over the keylab mkii (over the images of them in the screen, anyhow), and this thread is really pushing me towards splurging and getting it.
> 
> Zoot, you mentioned the DAW integration... I haven't really found anything more extensive on the matter. What is your experience on this regard, what has stood out to you? I have also thought of adding a one-fader control surface, but would be happy if I can dispense with it by using the Arturia.



Keep in mind, this is my first DAW control surface experience.

So the Gosh Wow factor is steep with simple controls like:

Transport and big knob scrolling.

I've attempted it before with other hardware, but gave up after feeble attempts.

KEYLab's built in DAW selections with the faders, encoders, and switches already assigned at a touch of a button...

Hmmm, i thought, i could actually use this.

The even fuller integration with Ableton Live has me curious to check out that DAW.

Ableton Lite is included.

I've discovered i like learning different DAWs.

As well as Analoglab 4, which looks very good for bundled software.

The USER section with 10 preset slots looks great for my various VIs.

Coming from a Studiologic SL88 Studio with a massive-ish Akai MPD232 balanced on top,

built in faders was a must - this has 9, nice touch - 8 tracks and one master,

presents this form factor as nothing short of inspiring.

Othes may not be so impressed.

Honestly, i'm sure some will say the keyboard action is average.

Perhaps.

The reviews are all high 4s.

I got to use it for a few days before Guitar Center choked on a hair ball.

Excited to get to work.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 27, 2019)

you sound excited, that's awesome! I read a review that says that 88 key version of the Arturia mk2 is fatar 100 keybed. I would really like to know how the keybed compares to the KK S61, which is also fatar. I don't think the 61 key arturia is fatar, but I could be wrong. I wish there was one around here to try.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 27, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> you sound excited, that's awesome! I read a review that says that 88 key version of the Arturia mk2 is fatar 100 keybed. I would really like to know how the keybed compares to the KK S61, which is also fatar. I don't think the 61 key arturia is fatar, but I could be wrong. I wish there was one around here to try.




Very excited.

Couple this with a personal move starting tomorrow - now with a dedicated studio/music room,

I won't be tripping over cables, guitars, wah pedals...

I watched a youtube vid on the 88 mk 2 key version.

Fatar, yes, but some complained in the about it and even recommended getting a Studiologic SL88 Studio at half the price.

A tad ironic.

I'll try to find the vid.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jun 27, 2019)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Couple this with a personal move starting tomorrow - now with a dedicated studio/music room,
> 
> I won't be tripping over cables, guitars, wah pedals...
> .


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 28, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> you sound excited, that's awesome! I read a review that says that 88 key version of the Arturia mk2 is fatar 100 keybed. I would really like to know how the keybed compares to the KK S61, which is also fatar. I don't think the 61 key arturia is fatar, but I could be wrong. I wish there was one around here to try.





Scroll down the comments.

Someone lamented the lack of a Fatar TP/40 Wood keybed with the KEYLab 88 mk2, that it was the same as the NI S88 mkii.

Another whined about buying the KEYLab 61 mk2 just before the 88 nk2 was released.

We all have different requirements.

Life on Earth.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 28, 2019)

The KEYLab 88 mk2 is a Fatar TP/100 LR from the youtube comments.

The same as the Studiologic SL88 Studio.

I preferred that action over the SL88 Grand (TP/40 Wood) when i was shopping for an 88.

Weight was a consideration too.

The KEYLab 88 mk2 looks excellent.


----------



## chimuelo (Jun 28, 2019)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I had a KX88 for a few years back in the early '90s.
> 
> Needed it for my composition class since they wouldn't accept electric bass as my performance instrument.
> 
> ...



Reaper can play flashes of light in its video box that works so well it’s distracting.
Shrinking it’s video playback square helps but it’s still like a camera flash.

I bought back my KX88 and TX816 from the guy it sold it to in the early 90s for 400 USD.
A great reminder of how far we’ve come with synthesis since then.
Kronos has an FM Engine that is really great, the FM8 by NI is good but my ancient FS1r module still is a one stop FM shop.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 28, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> Reaper can play flashes of light in its video box that works so well it’s distracting.
> Shrinking it’s video playback square helps but it’s still like a camera flash.



Oh

I thought you were joking.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 2, 2019)

update:

availability and delivery snags have thwarted my 61 key downsizing.

sticking with my Studiologic SL-88 Studio for now.

<edited>


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 4, 2019)

This will have to do for now.


----------

