# Looking for connections with movie trailer companies



## tetrafiremusic (Feb 1, 2022)

hi guys! my name is michael. i have a new trailer music project and - as the title says - i am looking for connections with movie trailer companies. i have sent a lot of cold emails, but as we all know it's very hard to even get your email read, let alone answered. i also live in romania, and being so far from la makes it even harder to make connections with people from over there. 

that's why i thought i would reach out to people on this forum. i am of course aware that this is a composer forum, but seeing that there are so many people here who really do work in hollywood, i'm thinking that maybe i can find someone who can help me out. whether they may be a composer who can give me some advice, or some good pointers. or a professional in the field, who's not a composer but maybe checks this place out from time to time. 

of course, if there is someone who can actually help make a license deal happen, we could write up an agreement.

i only have 5 tracks released so far, but i think you'll agree that they sound good and contemporary and they have commercial potential. you can check them out on my website here:
https://tetrafiremusic.com/catalogue
i also already have license agreements written up, and of course a business registered in the european union. i'm pretty much set up, except for the most important part: connections with people in this industry.

again, i am aware that it's hard to have success as a trailer music composer, because there are already some very big names out there. and i am also aware that this is a composer forum. and i'm aware that i'm just starting out and it's not easy to get big license deals right away. but one must start somewhere. so with this being told, i hope we can keep this thread positive.

if anyone wants to help me out or wants to strike up an agreement, please DM me. or if you have some helpful advice, do go ahead and post it below, so everyone can benefit.

thanks!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 2, 2022)

You've definitely got the mixing down. Just my opinion, but they need more dynamics. Instead of staying at the same tempo and key for the whole track, try splitting into a few distinct sections. Again, just my 2 cents based on past experience.

I'm no expert on the Hollywood trailer industry (I've had placements in smaller markets), but I would just keep on visiting websites and researching what their submission policies are and go from there. Your best bet? Start with the smaller sub-publishers, there's quite a few out there. They often deal with the bigger houses anyways. Companies like APM, Music Vine, Crucial, etc.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 3, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You've definitely got the mixing down. Just my opinion, but they need more dynamics. Instead of staying at the same tempo and key for the whole track, try splitting into a few distinct sections. Again, just my 2 cents based on past experience.


thanks for the feedback. you make a good point here. i guess it's just me being a bit too ocd and tidy. i did try this with some tracks, but it just felt that their vibe changed too much.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 3, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I'm no expert on the Hollywood trailer industry (I've had placements in smaller markets), but I would just keep on visiting websites and researching what their submission policies are and go from there. Your best bet? Start with the smaller sub-publishers, there's quite a few out there. They often deal with the bigger houses anyways. Companies like APM, Music Vine, Crucial, etc.


i'll look into these companies. some of them i've already heard of. 

but still what i want is to establish some relationships with the companies who make the movie trailers in the first place. seems to be quite tricky to do.


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## Daryl (Feb 3, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> i'll look into these companies. some of them i've already heard of.
> 
> but still what i want is to establish some relationships with the companies who make the movie trailers in the first place. seems to be quite tricky to do.


To be honest, you've pretty much got no chance. Most trailers are scored via music Publishers who specialise in providing music for trailers, like Audiomachine. They have albums that can be used, and they also accept custom work. Trying to bypass that is pointless, so I think you need, initially, to set your sights lower, and work your way up.


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## jcrosby (Feb 3, 2022)

Your tracks are really solid foundations. Your intros are pretty on point and your sound design's good too...

I write for a pretty well known trailer library so here's what stands out to me:

1. All of your tracks are missing a proper backend. This is CRITICAL to get the attention of any trailer library. Early on I had tracks rejected simply because my backends weren't quite up to snuff. This is basically what any library listening to submissions is going to judge your tracks on. My advice would be to follow some of the links below, listen to them regularly, and work on creating an arc where the tracks steadily builds and the backend hits you like a ton of bricks.

2. Your orchestral elements need a lot of work. both on a compositional level, and on a mix level as well. The two I checked that had orchestra both had the orchestra focused in the lower register. This just doesn't work in terms of creating a backend that hits you hard. It also means all of your low end elements are fighting for clarity.... The orchestra needs to pop, and really needs to thoroughly dominate the mix when it comes in. TL;DR - your orchestration will make or break a backend which, it needs to huge sounding, and again, is a key aspect of what libraries are going to judge your submissions on...

3. Your tracks need a more dynamic arc overall. Some sound design tracks might be leaning toward he louder end, but if you look at the waveform of any killer piece of sound-design based trailer music the dynamics still grow from quiet to loud as you move from the intro to backend.

4. It's good you have transitions and gaps. try leaving an extra measure of silence or reverb tails in them. The library I write for tends to like gaps of space 1-4 bars long. A quote from one of their editing rounds early on that I always keep in mind now: "_You need let tracks breathe"_.

Basically filling every second with music or sound design will actually reduce the impact of each following section. By leaving space with tails ringing out or hard silence, the next section will hit you a lot harder... It also creates tension as it leaves the last section hanging which creates anticipation/excitement, etc...

5. Your intros could use a little soft ambience before the sound design elements come in. This is the section of an actual trailer where dialogue will happen. Ambience before the sound design allows for dialogue to be placed over your music. Intros are just as important as backends as someone may license a track just to use the intro...

And think about an actual film trailer... The opening ambience, combined with those 1st few lines of dialogue set the stage for the vibe trailer. These 1st 15-30 seconds essentially make or break whether a trailer gets your attention... So killer moody intros with a lot of breathing space are really important.

These are some initial 1st impressions after one listen... I'm sure there's more but these are some important places to start...

Again, the tracks are good, those important moments above though need to be refined for you to get some positive responses from libraries... I think you can totally get the attention of a few libraries FYI as long you focus on the key points above... (Referencing great tracks is key. I search out and buy new tracks and albums all the time and listen to them frequently... The genre changes really fast these days.)


Here are some links. I post this one all the time (Trailer Music Weekly), you should listen to it at least once a week. The notes I gave you should stand out pretty clearly when you listen to some of the really stand out pieces on there, and the tracks linked below...

*TRAILER MUSIC WEKLY*:



https://www.youtube.com/c/TrailermusicweeklyCOM/videos




*A few top drawer tracks:*


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## jcrosby (Feb 3, 2022)

Daryl said:


> To be honest, you've pretty much got no chance. Most trailers are scored via music Publishers who specialise in providing music for trailers, like Audiomachine. They have albums that can be used, and they also accept custom work. Trying to bypass that is pointless, so I think you need, initially, to set your sights lower, and work your way up.


And yes, this is 100% true. You'll never be able to compete with the personal connections that a proper trailer library has. Not only that, you'd never be able to foster the relationships these libraries have with the hundreds of trailer cutting houses around the world. The people skills they've developed to deal with the often demanding creative marketing people/teams who decide the musical vision they have in mind for the film/show/game, etc...

As an example... The founder of the trailer library I write for is an incredible composer whose writing career goes back over 25 years. He's only composed for trailers since the mid 90s. Although he'd write a few tracks for each release the 1st few years he started his library, he doesn't write at all now...

The reason is because he's constantly taking meetings, fielding questions and quotes about customs, answering emails from trailer houses, curating playlists, sending out editing notes to composers, writing album briefs, and on and on and on... I don't know when he sleeps 

He simply doesn't have the time to do all of that and compose... And mind you, this is someone who's been deep in this industry for 26+ years now... The sooner you accept that you're going to have to start by writing for libraries the sooner you'll be moving forward, toward what you want to be doing...


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 3, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> The sooner you accept that you're going to have to start by writing for libraries the sooner you'll be moving forward, toward what you want to be doing...


^This. It's the equivalent of a new band wanting to get signed with Sony Records right out of the gate....not going to happen (unless you're the next Beatles). You are also competing with thousands of other great composers. Daryl and Justin have been doing this a long time, they offer excellent advice. There's nothing wrong with writing for libraries, even the smaller ones just to get your feet wet and build your portfolio.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 3, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> ^This. It's the equivalent of a new band wanting to get signed with Sony Records right out of the gate....not going to happen (unless you're the next Beatles).


that's a fair point, indeed. i guess i thought that i'm just making music for a handful of companies, not millions of people, so it might be easier. 



Jeremy Spencer said:


> Daryl and Justin have been doing this a long time, they offer excellent advice. There's nothing wrong with writing for libraries, even the smaller ones just to get your feet wet and build your portfolio.


i actually really appreciate all the feedback here quite a lot. especially since trailer music is a bit niche, it's very hard to find some online resources on how to navigate this domain (like one can with pop or rock music).


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## gsilbers (Feb 3, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> i'll look into these companies. some of them i've already heard of.
> 
> but still what i want is to establish some relationships with the companies who make the movie trailers in the first place. seems to be quite tricky to do.



Everyone and their mothers are trying to do the same. It takes years, decades and you have to be in los angeles. Its a networking sort of thing. Where you go to events, you are introduced by a friend or simply worked at one of these trailer movie companies and then you can quit and with the connections you send them music and get placements.

All these established trailer companies have deep connections with the trailer music libraries. Maybe an editor knows the owner and was able to put in some of this music and slowly started to get in more and more and in maybe a decade or so it becomes a full on music library for trailers.

It also has to do with flakes, and the eternal hollywood mess that is the wanabees. The risk of adding some music for a large movie campaign that later ends up not being cleared legally is way too risky for a music library since it bascially would mean that no movie trailer will ever hire you again. And not only that, the big studios paying top dollars for the trailers will also get fired. For bigger compaies like trailer park theyll fire a whole slew of people who where involved in the project. So its a lot of trust... which as anything related to trust, you have to know the person, meet them, know that they have been around and know how to do things.

Which is the really hollywood stop sign for many: The catch 22 of having to have worked in that same position, or have been doing that sort of job/work etc to be able to work in something like that. You only get placements IF you have already made placements.
And sometimes you have to be inside/onboarded in the big studios payroll system whcih is not an easy task.

So thats why you go through these specific music libraries that already have those connections and are the gate keepers. once you get your music placed there, you have credits, which you could use to leverage later once you have a bigger catalogue and slowly build up a compnay reputation. Plus you need USA legal company and also copy and ommisons insurance etc. Plus sometimes you have to be authorized by the MPAA if you are scoring these trailers (doesnt happen a lot though).

Seeing your page/cataogue i think you should be able to land in music libraries... and your goal imo, would be to be the small group of composers these music libraries call to provide a new album which theyll promote internally before releasing. theyll give these albums to movie trailer companies. You can shop around your catalogue to see if anyone will do a buyout for exclusivity (maybe for a period of time). Which for companies like collosal trailer music it would be great. Smaller companies meh. If you don't then you could just have non exclusive agreements with several companies and just keep pumping out new cool tracks. your track sure have the feel and quality so i think you could totally land this side of the biz.

With that said, if you want to purse the companyt thing, then go for it. but see the above little comments of mine like having a legal presence in the USA, insurance and other things youll have to research. That way you are prepered if there is a trailer company who would use your music directly... to later found out they cant pay you, or you dont have X etc. so learn a little of that side of the biz. but keep i mind you need placements first


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 3, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> 1. All of your tracks are missing a proper backend. This is CRITICAL to get the attention of any trailer library. Early on I had tracks rejected simply because my backends weren't quite up to snuff.


when you say backend, you mean the 3rd act, basically, right? this is in line with what jeremy was saying, as well. i do get lazy on that 3rd part.


jcrosby said:


> 2. Your orchestral elements need a lot of work. both on a compositional level, and on a mix level as well. The two I checked that had orchestra both had the orchestra focused in the lower register. This just doesn't work in terms of creating a backend that hits you hard. It also means all of your low end elements are fighting for clarity....


i do have high pass filters and such to make everything fit, but i see your point. maybe i'll just get the orchestra in a higher register. 
i've been using the orchestra more for let's say "sound design" purposes. for these tracks i'm really going for a more synth based sound. which i know is a bit overdone these days, but it's really the sound i like. 


jcrosby said:


> 3. Your tracks need a more dynamic arc overall. Some sound design tracks might be leaning toward he louder end, but if you look at the waveform of any killer piece of sound-design based trailer music the dynamics still grow from quiet to loud as you move from the intro to backend.


i do have a volume increase in most tracks (from act to act), but i've always been inclined to keep a steady level. do you really think i should make a more steep volume increase?


jcrosby said:


> 4. It's good you have transitions and gaps. try leaving an extra measure of silence or reverb tails in them. The library I write for tends to like gaps of space 1-4 bars long. A quote from one of their editing rounds early on that I always keep in mind now: "_You need let tracks breathe"_.


good pointer here.


jcrosby said:


> 5. Your intros could use a little soft ambience before the sound design elements come in. This is the section of an actual trailer where dialogue will happen. Ambience before the sound design allows for dialogue to be placed over your music.


and this.


jcrosby said:


> Here are some links. I post this one all the time (Trailer Music Weekly), you should listen to it at least once a week. The notes I gave you should stand out pretty clearly when you listen to some of the really stand out pieces on there, and linked below...


oh, i've been following their channel for quite a while. and a number of other similar ones like the prime cronus, epic music vn etc. i feel like trailer music weekly is more connected to the industry somehow.

thanks again for all the feedback! and the long message. it really is something when someone you don't know takes so much time to help out. i'll read again your notes and i'll get back to tinkering on those tracks.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 3, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> As an example... The founder of the trailer library I write for is an incredible composer whose writing career goes back over 25 years. He's only composed for trailers since the mid 90s. Although he'd write a few tracks for each release the 1st few years he started his library, he doesn't write at all now...


wow.


jcrosby said:


> The sooner you accept that you're going to have to start by writing for libraries the sooner you'll be moving forward, toward what you want to be doing...


fair point. thank you as well for the insights.


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## jneebz (Feb 3, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> Your tracks are really solid foundations. Your intros are pretty on point and your sound design's good too...
> 
> I write for a pretty well known trailer library so here's what stands out to me:
> 
> ...



Wow. Thanks for this…really valuable information.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 3, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> Everyone and their mothers are trying to do the same. It takes years, decades and you have to be in los angeles. Its a networking sort of thing. Where you go to events, you are introduced by a friend or simply worked at one of these trailer movie companies and then you can quit and with the connections you send them music and get placements.
> 
> All these established trailer companies have deep connections with the trailer music libraries. Maybe an editor knows the owner and was able to put in some of this music and slowly started to get in more and more and in maybe a decade or so it becomes a full on music library for trailers.
> 
> ...


thanks for these insights! it really is a catch 22, isn't it. and for someone from romania i guess it's even harder. 
i'll definitely keep your advice in mind. and i'll probably do a bit of research as well.
thank you again!


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## LudovicVDP (Feb 3, 2022)

Some people taking the time to write very detailed and real-experience based answers.
Always nice to see.


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## gsilbers (Feb 3, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> thanks for these insights! it really is a catch 22, isn't it. and for someone from romania i guess it's even harder.
> i'll definitely keep your advice in mind. and i'll probably do a bit of research as well.
> thank you again!


There are workarounds also btw. You can partner up with smaller companies offering several services in the post prodcution or marketing world that are based in LA. Agents, maganers etc. Tons of angles. But the one to compete with these mega established companies is too hard. 
But if you have decent website, it seems you are a established company, you could bring in the attention of these big ones who even might have you as a sublabel. I think some of position music has this. or apm and even extrememusic has several labels.


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## jcrosby (Feb 3, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> when you say backend, you mean the 3rd act, basically, right? this is in line with what jeremy was saying, as well. i do get lazy on that 3rd part.


Yeah, the backend is the climax. It really is the most important section to get right, at least if you want to work toward working with some bigger libraries. But libraries aside, it's also the 1st thing any trailer house would expect you to be able to absolutely nail, as it's the section that essentially sells the movie...

If you think of an actual movie trailer they all tend to use the same formula, the last 30-40 seconds are mostly a huge montage of music, heavy cutting, and sound fx. If there's dialogue during the peak of a trailer it's usually minimal, the music typically takes focus here, and the energy is at peak velocity.

Listen from 2:15 onward in the 1st track I posted, it's a pretty incredible backend. Basically this would be the section where laziness isn't ever going to cut it.



tetrafiremusic said:


> i do have high pass filters and such to make everything fit, but i see your point. maybe i'll just get the orchestra in a higher register.
> i've been using the orchestra more for let's say "sound design" purposes. for these tracks i'm really going for a more synth based sound. which i know is a bit overdone these days, but it's really the sound i like.


I get that... At least with the library I write for, unless they specified in a brief that orchestral elements should be used only for the purpose of adding emphasis or character only, the notes I would typically get back would say something like _"If you're going to use orchestration in the backend make it have meaning, don't use it as an afterthought"_ (Something to that effect)....

Sound design and hybrid cues are very much genres on their own... But even if you listen to deliberately hybrid tracks that use a combination of synth and orchestra, the importance of orchestral elements aren't over shadowed by the synths, they're enhanced, if not kicked up a few notches _because_ of them...

Here's a track that's really similar to one of yours. Even though the 1st minute is all synthesis and editing tricks very similar to your style, when the orchestra comes in at about 1:10 the track gets kicked up another 3 levels, and the orchestra is given the focus... It's also a hybrid, like what you're going for... So even though it's not a 'purely' orchestral backend, the orchestra isn't overshadowed either.

(I'm also not saying this is the only style/formula that works. There are libraries out there that have lots of shorter sound design/edit focused cues similar to yours... But if you wanted to try and branch out on your own in say 5-7 years, it's something you'd need to have a firm grasp of...)







tetrafiremusic said:


> i do have a volume increase in most tracks (from act to act), but i've always been inclined to keep a steady level. do you really think i should make a more steep volume increase?


I actually don't do much volume automation. When I do it's usually to correct things like the odd hit that sticks out a little too much. For me it's a combination of moving from sparse to dense, and stacking and adding new layers as the track progresses. I often save things like brass for the backend. And strings often get layered with other libraries (or hybrids) to also fill out the backend. I also work with quieter string dynamics in the earlier sections and do things like focus on higher registers only, for atmosphere and tension... (Depends on the genre though. Some tracks obviously have the strings in focus form the beginning)...

Basically I _might_ lift the backend a dB or two, but more of then not I don't need to because my arrangement has a natural dynamic arc to it. I keep a limiter on my mixbus as a way to check the dynamics. Typically the limiter doesn't get triggered until the last half of the backend. (Mind you I'm not delivering "mastered" tracks, I'm sending tracks where the full mix has 1-2 dB of headroom at the loudest peak)...

So when I see my limiter getting triggered in the backend only I know the dynamics are working in my favor. But again these are unmastered. If I pulled the limiter threshold down by 6-7 dB it'd obviously be getting triggered a lot earlier, but that's not how they want things delivered...



tetrafiremusic said:


> good pointer here.
> 
> and this.


Thanks. Intros really are important. They can also be super fun, I personally love working on intros 


tetrafiremusic said:


> oh, i've been following their channel for quite a while. and a number of other similar ones like the prime cronus, epic music vn etc. i feel like trailer music weekly is more connected to the industry somehow.


Nice. It's a great resource... One thing I'd suggest is lean toward newer tracks. There are so many trailer libraries that have popped up in the last 5 years the genre changes really fast. 3-6 months from now a completely new trend might emerge and it's good to be current...


tetrafiremusic said:


> thanks again for all the feedback! and the long message. it really is something when someone you don't know takes so much time to help out. i'll read again your notes and i'll get back to tinkering on those tracks.


You bet. And again, your tracks really are good enough for some of the libraries that focus on shorter production cues.

Also, a lot of libraries do briefs for bespoke sound design collections like risers, braams, transition fx, etc... And also do short sound designed focused albums of extended trailer sections like intros only, or intro with a 2nd act, etc. Definitely a place for you out there currently. Plus writing to a brief will teach you a lot if you decide you want to take a crack at branching out on your own at some point....

That said, orchestral chops are one thing you really need to have firmly under your belt. It really is the bedrock of the genre. And you have to embrace the challenge (which it certainly can be) of powering through and developing a massive and killer backend. It's also a cornerstone.

As far as reaching out to libraries (if that's a direction you want to go), start jotting down the names of all of the different libraries listed in the track titles you find on the TMW channel...

Cheers...


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 4, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> Yeah, the backend is the climax. It really is the most important section to get right, at least if you want to work toward working with some bigger libraries. But libraries aside, it's also the 1st thing any trailer house would expect you to be able to absolutely nail, as it's the section that essentially sells the movie...
> 
> If you think of an actual movie trailer they all tend to use the same formula, the last 30-40 seconds are mostly a huge montage of music, heavy cutting, and sound fx. If there's dialogue during the peak of a trailer it's usually minimal, the music typically takes focus here, and the energy is at peak velocity.
> 
> ...



thank you again for your feedback and advice! 
i'm gonna listen through the tracks you've used for examples. i think i already know a few of them.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 4, 2022)

i do have to decide what to do next, but i feel like the best bet would be to take everyone's advice and try to pitch my tracks to a music library. i already have a very extensive list of companies and their contacts, which i've actually picked from youtube channels like TMW and the like.

but i am wondering what to do with the tracks i've already written. reading through all the feedback here, i do want to adjust them. write a better 3rd act and work a bit on the transitions. maybe work a bit on the mix / master. i really think i can get them to a much better state.

the problem is that they're already on youtube and some other places. and i've registered them with my pro. i've also sold a few micro licenses for some of them. and they've also been sent to some of those "epic youtube channels". so adjusting them would require some pretty complicated admin work. 

so let's say i manage to get the revamped versions with a music library and they get licensed. chances are the old versions might pop-up on youtube on an "epic channel". i wonder if this would maybe cause issues with licensing the tracks. because it might look unprofessional, or people might be worried about copyright issues etc. 

but then again, i don't just want to throw them away, since there was quite an effort involved. plus given that most of them have a very common theme and vibe, i could make a short album with them, which might be quite easy to show to a music library. i've seen than many libraries release their music as albums, and sometimes those album are written by one or a few external composers. 

so this is a bit of a predicament, here. what would do you guys think would be the best course of action here?

i know i'm picking everyone's brains here. and for free, what's more.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 4, 2022)

Since you’ve already put those tracks out into the world, and registered them with your PRO, I would just leave them as is. You could use those for licensing through non-exclusive libraries. Word of advice though, be careful with placing tracks on YouTube. I have tracks with a couple of libraries that specifically state in their contract that none of the music can have any content ID conflicts. Basically, if they are on YouTube, it creates potential issues for clients when they license the tracks. Just to be safe, I don’t post music on my YouTube channel anymore.

Just keep writing! When you have a few more epic trailer pieces produced, submit them to the libraries of your choice and see what happens. Some libraries may even commission you to produce a trailer music album, which typically consists of 10 or so tracks in a certain genre, complete with stems and multiple track versions.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 4, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Word of advice though, be careful with placing tracks on YouTube. I have tracks with a couple of libraries that specifically state in their contract that none of the music can have any content ID conflicts. Basically, if they are on YouTube, it creates potential issues for clients when they license the tracks. Just to be safe, I don’t post music on my YouTube channel anymore.


oh, for sure. none of my tracks are registered with content id. 



Jeremy Spencer said:


> Just keep writing! When you have a few more epic trailer pieces produced, submit them to the libraries of your choice and see what happens. Some libraries may even commission you to produce a trailer music album, which typically consists of 10 or so tracks in a certain genre, complete with stems and multiple track versions.


i could do some edits for 2-3 of my tracks, which i could use just as a private demo for music libraries.

and of course, write new ones.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 4, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> oh, for sure. none of my tracks are registered with content id.
> 
> 
> i could do some edits for 2-3 of my tracks, which i could use just as a private demo for music libraries.
> ...


Take my advice with a grain of salt, of course!

Regarding content ID, even if you haven't registered, posting music can still create issues if libraries license your music to companies posting on Youtube.


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## Daryl (Feb 4, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> i do have to decide what to do next, but i feel like the best bet would be to take everyone's advice and try to pitch my tracks to a music library. i already have a very extensive list of companies and their contacts, which i've actually picked from youtube channels like TMW and the like.
> 
> but i am wondering what to do with the tracks i've already written. reading through all the feedback here, i do want to adjust them. write a better 3rd act and work a bit on the transitions. maybe work a bit on the mix / master. i really think i can get them to a much better state.
> 
> ...


Look, you probably don't want to hear this, but if the tracks you've written are so precious that you don't want to move on and write more, writing commercial music is probably not for you. I suspect you will learn more by writing new tracks anyway.

Having said that, there is nothing to stop you borrowing bits of ideas from old tracks and re-cycling them, if you wish. There are no copyright implications for ripping off yourself. However, if you are that short of ideas that you can't come up with more tracks, I refer you to the previous paragraph.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 4, 2022)

Daryl said:


> Look, you probably don't want to hear this, but if the tracks you've written are so precious that you don't want to move on and write more, writing commercial music is probably not for you. I suspect you will learn more by writing new tracks anyway.
> 
> Having said that, there is nothing to stop you borrowing bits of ideas from old tracks and re-cycling them, if you wish. There are no copyright implications for ripping off yourself. However, if you are that short of ideas that you can't come up with more tracks, I refer you to the previous paragraph.


oh, i don't mind writing new music, or coming up with new ideas. 

this is actually the third itteration of this project, basically. i wrote many tracks before and i scraped them because i wasn't happy with them.
and started over.

but of course, there is also the matter of having efficiency and not wasting time. so that's really where i was coming from.


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## Daryl (Feb 4, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> oh, i don't mind writing new music, or coming up with new ideas.
> 
> this is actually the third itteration of this project, basically. i wrote many tracks before and i scraped them because i wasn't happy with them.
> and started over.
> ...


Understood, but one of the crucial things about being successful in media music is being quick, and that only comes with practice. I think that moving on with new stuff is the best way to improve your tracks.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 4, 2022)

Daryl said:


> Understood, but one of the crucial things about being successful in media music is being quick, and that only comes with practice. I think that moving on with new stuff is the best way to improve your tracks.


i agree with you. and indeed, a fast turnover is not my biggest strength. 
but practice makes perfect, so : )


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## Ivan M. (Feb 4, 2022)

Daryl said:


> There are no copyright implications for ripping off yourself.


Interesting. But you are not the copyright owner of your own music, right, you sell it to the library? (If you write for the same library/publisher it is obviously ok.) However, copyright is heavily abused wherever there's money. So if you change the library or submit to multiple libs, then can you and your new publisher be in trouble if you write similar stuff or copy yourself?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 4, 2022)

Daryl said:


> There are no copyright implications for ripping off yourself.


Unless your name is John Fogerty 🤪


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 4, 2022)

Ivan M. said:


> But you are not the copyright owner of your own music, right, you sell it to the library?


you don't sell the copyright, you license the tracks. but you're still the copyright owner. unless it's a deal like you do on soundbetter, where it's just money upfront and that's it.



Ivan M. said:


> So if you change the library or submit to multiple libs, then can you and your new publisher be in trouble if you write similar stuff or copy yourself?


technically, it should be fine. but why would anyone copy themselves and not come up with some fresh ideas in the first place? : p


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Feb 4, 2022)

Hey! 

You can rework those tracks indeed, but if I were you I would use the gained experience to write new music, you'll probably make more progress this way. When you have like 5 top notch tracks, use them as a private portfolio and start contacting publishers  

If you sign with a publisher, he will probably not be using those tracks in his catalogue anyway, and more likely will send you briefs for future releases. Unless you have a super solid 10 tracks album ready to go!


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## erica-grace (Feb 4, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> 1. All of your tracks are missing a proper backend.


Can you explain please, what you mean by "backend"?

I see the exs you posted, but if I dont know what it is I am listening for.... 

Thanks!


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## jcrosby (Feb 4, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Since you’ve already put those tracks out into the world, and registered them with your PRO, I would just leave them as is. You could use those for licensing through non-exclusive libraries. Word of advice though, be careful with placing tracks on YouTube. I have tracks with a couple of libraries that specifically state in their contract that none of the music can have any content ID conflicts. Basically, if they are on YouTube, it creates potential issues for clients when they license the tracks. Just to be safe, I don’t post music on my YouTube channel anymore.
> 
> Just keep writing! When you have a few more epic trailer pieces produced, submit them to the libraries of your choice and see what happens. Some libraries may even commission you to produce a trailer music album, which typically consists of 10 or so tracks in a certain genre, complete with stems and multiple track versions.


This, 110%. This is something you need to grasp about trailer and exclusive production libraries right from the get go... They don't want anything that's already floating out there on the web. They also don't allow you to publish your tracks anywhere online (including your own website), even if after released. That's just that way it is... They may release a few tracks after, but typically albums are kept under lock and key and only available to trailer houses /marketing teams, etc for at least a year before tracks are publicly available, and not all libraries publish to YT. (The library I write for doesn't publish full tracks to YT for example...)

Keeping tracks out of public view is incredibly attractive to production companies for a bunch of reasons:

1. There are no copyright issues that would pop up if they used some generic piece of widely available stock music. 2. They can be assured the track has minimal prior use; ideally none when it comes to something like a feature film. 3. They can work with the library to have it customized to give it a sense of identity, or fit a creative vision. 4. This is a big one, and ties directly back to 3; while trailer music has a lot of _tropes_ that are synonymous with the genre, at the same time big productions are mostly interested in a piece of music that also has a distinct sonic identity. So basically every track has to strike a balance between using the right amount of elements that obviously stamp it as a piece of trailer music, at the same time it also has to have something that is instantly identifiable that can be exploited as a form of identity, branding, etc... At the end of the day trailer music is just _marketing_ music so it's an important component.

So basically the tracks you linked would be fine as demos used to attract interest. But I'd definitely work on making the orchestral sections stronger, bigger, and more harmonically compelling before sending them to any libraries. One other thing I'd focus on in terms of orchestral elements in the tracks that I linked is the use of orchestral tension elements - Long tense build ups and sections of organic tension beds underneath non-organic sound design, etc. All of the tracks I linked do the _slow burn tension_ thing really well which has been more or less standard in every orchestral or hybrid brief I've done over the past 18 months...

Finally it's really important to understand how different tropes (I prefer devices, the term my publisher uses)... are used in different film genres. You wouldn't typically find distorted bends, big filthy braams, and hyper edited transitions in a Harry Potter-esque fantasy trailer... The tracks you've linked more or less fall into the action genre, where you see a lot of the stuttered and hyper edited transitions you have. There's always genre overlap, but as a whole these fall mostly under that umbrella.

It's important to understand these distinctions because briefs aren't a free for all... Typically a brief is going to have a focus with specific film genres in mind, even if there's some genre overlap. TL;DR: Check out different _genre_ trailers... As a quick example - "Epic" tends to fall into the superhero category these days, sci-fi as well... Then again darker sci-fi can also be super sound design heavy... Not to mention horror/thriller being its own world as well... Basically it's a good idea to watch a lot of trailers and pay attention to how some devices are _spun_ in a different way so that it fits into the genre.

I'd also think about sending a range a styles. So basically one hyper edited sound design piece like some of the ones you've linked, and a hybrid one that's harmonically more complex. You really need to be able to do both, and getting it under your belt early on is a lot less painful than trying to get it under your belt when a library briefs you. Last, you don't need to send more than 3 tracks. Two really excellent tracks should be all you need, 3's fine, anything more is probably overkill...


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## jcrosby (Feb 4, 2022)

erica-grace said:


> Can you explain please, what you mean by "backend"?
> 
> I see the exs you posted, but if I dont know what it is I am listening for....
> 
> Thanks!


The backend is the climax. It's where the orchestra gets full focus (if used), and one or two specific sound design elements (signatures) get used as a motif that work in tandem with the orchestra. (Again, if sound design is used as a 'signature' in the backend). Keep in mind that's in the context of orchestral/hybrid cues like these... Often times the harmony becomes more complex, and new instruments are introduced.

In the 1st track the backend starts at 2:20 (after the gap). This one doesn't have a signature sound design motif.

In the 2nd track it starts at 2:03 (after the big riser). The high semitone synth bend is the signature here. It's also established as a motif earlier on in the intro as well which is important... Signatures need to work as a theme that show up throughout a piece. But, signatures can also be organic musical elements like rhythms, lines or textures played with extended techniques, etc. Basically whatever is used as a motif that stands out and gives the piece its own identity.

In the 3rd track it starts at 2:25 (after the gap). The slow bend at the end of every phrase is the sound design motif here.

Track 4 is more ambiguous because it's going for a slow burn vibe... I'd personally consider it to be 2:18 when the choir comes in, the harmony shifts, and the rhythm picks up. But it could definitely be argued that it starts 1:35 when the bending synth comes in and builds from there. The synth bend is obviously used as the sound design motif in this piece.


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## VVEremita (Feb 5, 2022)

That is a really interesting thread, just as the "writing 52 cues in a year" thread. Thanks to all of you for offering such invaluable insight. 

I understand now that it is not a good idea to publish tracks on your own before sending them to a library. Youtube etc. can cause problems. But what about using soundcloud (or something similar) to share a track on a forum for feedback? I know a professional would probably be advised not to do it. But for someone who is just about to dip his toes into the game, it could be very helpful to get some feedback on track that are "almost there" - at least from the composers perspective.

The track could be deleted afterwards without much hassle. Is there something I am overlooking that could result in a drawback?


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## GtrString (Feb 5, 2022)

I understand your ambitions, and mainstream media is full of Hollywood trailers. But, you can find these companies on Instagram. Try follow them and see what they put out. Compare it with your own productions. When you are confident you are on par with their production values, do something unique and pitch to your local production companies (find also on social media), and sign your stuff directly.

Don’t go through american middlemen. Those companies will rob you blind, and not do anything for your career. Why enter a race to the bottom? Use it for comparison, and get in locally in your own country, and Europe. There are a lot of production going on here, and you can win the competition with those american companies locally, because you can meet and greet with people.

In the end, that will serve you much better.


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## Roger Newton (Feb 5, 2022)

VVEremita said:


> I understand now that it is not a good idea to publish tracks on your own before sending them to a library.


You could do it, but generally I would advise against it because if you have a publisher or publishers, when you send in tracks that are accepted, they will do that administration for you. For example, I do not do any track titles, track description or adding tracks to the PRO amongst other things. This is applicable to most exclusive libraries.



VVEremita said:


> But what about using soundcloud (or something similar) to share a track on a forum for feedback? I know a professional would probably be advised not to do it. But for someone who is just about to dip his toes into the game, it could be very helpful to get some feedback on track that are "almost there" - at least from the composers perspective.


You need some form of platform to send in a track or tracks to a prospective publisher. Soundcloud is one of those platforms. I don't use it myself but you could do a list of tracks on SC and then send in the url to the publisher. Publishers aren't keen on receiving MP3s in an email.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 5, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> This, 110%. This is something you need to grasp about trailer and exclusive production libraries right from the get go... They don't want anything that's already floating out there on the web. They also don't allow you to publish your tracks anywhere online (including your own website), even if after released. That's just that way it is... They may release a few tracks after, but typically albums are kept under lock and key and only available to trailer houses /marketing teams, etc for at least a year before tracks are publicly available, and not all libraries publish to YT. (The library I write for doesn't publish full tracks to YT for example...)


this is an interesting insight. because youtube is filled with tracks from various trailer music companies - big and small, i always thought that's no issue. also, i thought most trailer music libraries work in a non-exclusive manner. is it that often that a track gets used once and only once?


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 5, 2022)

GtrString said:


> Don’t go through american middlemen. Those companies will rob you blind, and not do anything for your career. Why enter a race to the bottom? Use it for comparison, and get in locally in your own country, and Europe. There are a lot of production going on here, and you can win the competition with those american companies locally, because you can meet and greet with people.


well, one can't do trailer music and ignore the us and the uk. because that's where 99% of the industry is coming for. 
for example, in my home country of romania there's basically no cinema industry, apart from the odd festival film. romanian films do surprisingly good at cannes, but they are done on a shoe string budget, with money from the government. and that money only goes to people with connections.
and i think it's the same in all of europe and the world, really. apart from a handful of countries


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## jcrosby (Feb 5, 2022)

Roger Newton said:


> You could do it, but generally I would advise against it because if you have a publisher or publishers, when you send in tracks that are accepted, they will do that administration for you. For example, I do not do any track titles, track description or adding tracks to the PRO amongst other things. This is applicable to most exclusive libraries.
> 
> 
> You need some form of platform to send in a track or tracks to a prospective publisher. Soundcloud is one of those platforms. I don't use it myself but you could do a list of tracks on SC and then send in the url to the publisher. Publishers aren't keen on receiving MP3s in an email.


To piggyback off of that, send a private link if you use soundcloud. IME it's not wise to have anything you intend to place with an exclusive library publicly visible in any way; including before you send it to them.

If you do some searching you'll see find various threads on here about copyright thieves who rip people's music from places like soundcloud, YT; wherever basically... They then upload the track to CD Baby or register it with a distributer and claim copyright ownership. You don't want to put that kind of headache in a publishers lap... Making it clear that you understand their need for keeping things under lock and key shows them that your trustworthy...

As an example - the trailer library I've been write for stopped sending out the mastered album playlists to all of their composers for part of last year. Why? Because people were doing really dumb things like sending the link to other libraries looking for work. As the saying goes... One bad apple spoils the bunch.

Anyone with any common sense should understand that that'd immediately terminate your relationship with that library. It's also a pretty safe bet that the library then notifies other libraries or industry people they're friendly with that might be involved you, letting them know that you're a potential liability....

You wouldn't want to risk kneecapping your career right as it's getting off the ground so keep things limited to private playlists.


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## GtrString (Feb 5, 2022)

@tetrafiremusic Yes, connections with the people you want to work with. Thats why you want to do midem, film festivals both locally and abroad ect. Just do the right research and the math, and you’ll be good.


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## ashX (Feb 5, 2022)

There is a huge competition there in trailer market. You need to start writing tracks for trailer companies (libraries) but you will get literally zero money in 1-2 years working for them if you only just starting. You'd need to wait till your track gets placed (means no placements = no money)


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## jcrosby (Feb 5, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> this is an interesting insight. because youtube is filled with tracks from various trailer music companies - big and small, i always thought that's no issue. also, i thought most trailer music libraries work in a non-exclusive manner. is it that often that a track gets used once and only once?


Libraries that strictly focus on trailers are exclusive. As I said above there are a lot of factors trailer houses and film studios can't afford to worry about so that's just the nature of the business.

And no, it's not the case at all that a track can only license once. I've had a few of mine license multiple times closely together. That was a poorly worded example. Ideal in that a higher profile film might opt to go with an existing track that hasn't licensed yet... In that scenario they might opt to have that cue customized vs doing a one off custom track. Customizations and custom cues are a whole other beast though, and aren't very frequent. In general tracks from albums can/will license multiple times. But it's also a numbers game. Not everything you write will license, which can be said for any area of licensing, exclusive or otherwise.

As far as libraries with tracks on YT, SC, etc, that comes down to the library... The library I work with has a YT but they don't publish full tracks to it, only compilations of 30 second clips from each track on an album, and they don't publish a preview for every album. They do have a SC, spotify, etc, but don't publish everything to it either. (Very little actually... But they don't need to since trailer houses aren't finding them via social media...) Other libraries post a few tracks from most albums. So basically there are plenty of trailer libraries that do publish to social media, but plenty that also don't.... It just comes down to the preference and TBH I've never asked why as I'm sure they have their reasons...

That said it tends to work the same across the board where anything you see online or can buy was most likely privately released to trailer houses at least a year prior...


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## NekujaK (Feb 5, 2022)

Just want to echo what's already been stated, and add my own anecdotal experience...

With media composing, you can't be precious about your work. Whether writing for clients, publishers, libraries, film, trailers, etc. it's basically "compose and move on to the next one." You need to be a music factory, able to crank out new music quickly and reliably. The tracks you created in the past are permanently in the rear view mirror and receding fast - your focus is always on what's next.

The tracks you posted on YouTube may not be of interest to a publisher because they've already had public exposure, but they can still serve as your calling card to showcase your talents.

Several years ago, when I first started dabbling with orchestral music, I wrote a handful of epic trailer pieces just for fun as a learning experience. I posted them on YouTube to share with my friends, and had absolutely no intent of doing anything commercial with them, since I didn't think they were very good.

I moved on to other projects and eventually forgot about the epic trailer pieces. Then about 2 years later, I got contacted by a publisher who stumbled onto my videos asking if I'd write trailer music for him. Of course, he wanted all new music, not the stuff I already posted.

So let your current compositions serve as your showreel, and don't obsess over them or expect to leverage them commercially (it could happen, but don't focus on it). Look ahead to working with a library or publisher, and be prepared to write lots of new (and even better) music!


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## JonS (Feb 5, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> hi guys! my name is michael. i have a new trailer music project and - as the title says - i am looking for connections with movie trailer companies. i have sent a lot of cold emails, but as we all know it's very hard to even get your email read, let alone answered. i also live in romania, and being so far from la makes it even harder to make connections with people from over there.
> 
> that's why i thought i would reach out to people on this forum. i am of course aware that this is a composer forum, but seeing that there are so many people here who really do work in hollywood, i'm thinking that maybe i can find someone who can help me out. whether they may be a composer who can give me some advice, or some good pointers. or a professional in the field, who's not a composer but maybe checks this place out from time to time.
> 
> ...


I have done a number of trailers for major Hollywood releases. Breaking into the movie trailer business as a composer is near impossible. You either have to have direct personal relationships with someone at those companies or be a big name A-list composer, which is not really any different than trying to break into the film and tv side of the business. It's all about having deep, close in-person relationships with the right people or you really aren't going to get a chance to break in. Unfortunately, anyone who wants to make it as a composer for major film and tv shows is going to have a very difficult time getting a serious career as one needs an awful lot of luck for that to unfold. Every once in a blue moon someone will get very lucky and break in but that is such the exception and no one can really make a plan to break into the industry as a composer as one needs way too much luck for that to unfold.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 5, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> Just want to echo what's already been stated, and add my own anecdotal experience...
> 
> With media composing, you can't be precious about your work. Whether writing for clients, publishers, libraries, film, trailers, etc. it's basically "compose and move on to the next one." You need to be a music factory, able to crank out new music quickly and reliably. The tracks you created in the past are permanently in the rear view mirror and receding fast - your focus is always on what's next.
> 
> ...


some very good points here!


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 5, 2022)

JonS said:


> I have done a number of trailers for major Hollywood releases. Breaking into the movie trailer business as a composer is near impossible. You either have to have direct personal relationships with someone at those companies or be a big name A-list composer, which is not really any different than trying to break into the film and tv side of the business. It's all about having deep, close in-person relationships with the right people or you really aren't going to get a chance to break in. Unfortunately, anyone who wants to make it as a composer for major film and tv shows is going to have a very difficult time getting a serious career as one needs an awful lot of luck for that to unfold. Every once in a blue moon someone will get very lucky and break in but that is such the exception and no one can really make a plan to break into the industry as a composer as one needs way too much luck for that to unfold.


true.

this is something i think all of us on this forum have heard many times.
if you think about it, just making a good living as a musician period, is very very hard.
but yet, here we all are on this forum, trying to make it.

and without sounding too pretentious, i think this is a testament to human endurance and perseverance, really. because if one were rational, one would never attempt to become a composer. i mean hans zimmer and john williams already won, so what's the point, right?

but again, here we all are pitching ideas and advice. and i think that's really cool.

i'm sounding a bit like a politician on the campaign trail, i know : ))


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## JonS (Feb 5, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> true.
> 
> this is something i think all of us on this forum have heard many times.
> if you think about it, just making a good living as a musician period, is very very hard.
> ...


I am not saying don't try to make it as a composer for film and tv, I am saying that making a consistent living as a composer for film and tv is very difficult and most people who pursue this as a career path will never make a consistent living and have a long term viable career. It's not about talent or persistence or determination or hard work or charisma, it's a given that one has to be talented, determined, hardworking and persistent, but those attributes are no where near enough to carve a real career as a composer or so many more people would be making it that are not. So by all means believe in yourself and try to make it in this industry, but understand life is not fair, justice does not prevail all too often, and the odds of anyone making it as a composer is almost slim to none and slim just left town


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## Quantum Leap (Feb 6, 2022)

I haven’t spoken about the trailer industry for a long time. I was part of the beginning of the music for trailer industry in the late 90s doing music for Music Junkies. All the samples I was doing at the same time were created with trailers in mind. I made the mistake of telling other customers about my success in the trailer industry on northernsounds. LOL. before I knew it, it seemed like everyone was a trailer composer. But, as everyone moved towards that industry, many trailer agencies saw the money on the table and in typical corporate fashion, hired in house composers to kill us all off. License fees got smaller, many jobs were in house and royalties never materialized because trailers are mostly exempt from royalties. There was still business, but by 2010 it started to get tougher. Another disturbing trend materialized and that was they didn’t really want much melody any more. They wanted more and more great sounding, but familiar generic music. Thomas and I moved Two Steps From Hell away from trailers for this reason. We got our huge following from a few big trailers, so we were lucky.


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 7, 2022)

Quantum Leap said:


> I haven’t spoken about the trailer industry for a long time. I was part of the beginning of the music for trailer industry in the late 90s doing music for Music Junkies. All the samples I was doing at the same time were created with trailers in mind. I made the mistake of telling other customers about my success in the trailer industry on northernsounds. LOL. before I knew it, it seemed like everyone was a trailer composer. But, as everyone moved towards that industry, many trailer agencies saw the money on the table and in typical corporate fashion, hired in house composers to kill us all off. License fees got smaller, many jobs were in house and royalties never materialized because trailers are mostly exempt from royalties. There was still business, but by 2010 it started to get tougher. Another disturbing trend materialized and that was they didn’t really want much melody any more. They wanted more and more great sounding, but familiar generic music. Thomas and I moved Two Steps From Hell away from trailers for this reason. We got our huge following from a few big trailers, so we were lucky.


wow, on this forum you never know who's gonna reply. i'm a big fan! 
i remember hearing of two steps for the first time 10 years ago. i was listening a lot of classical music back then and i thought: "you could do that with an orchestra? wow!"

you paint a pretty bleak picture of the business of making trailer music. but i think one still needs to give it a shot, otherwise we might as well all just go home. 
and isn't it true that all music, or actually artistic endeavours are plagued with gate keepers and just bad people who want to get rich off you?



Quantum Leap said:


> Another disturbing trend materialized and that was they didn’t really want much melody any more.


i think this is a trend that is prevalent in all music, whether soundtrack, modern classical or even mainstream music. i think, at the end of the day, it's just people following trends and things evolving. i personally enjoy both "sound design" music or proper orchestral stuff. to me more important is the art behind the sound.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 7, 2022)

tetrafiremusic said:


> you paint a pretty bleak picture of the business of making trailer music. but i think one still needs to give it a shot, otherwise we might as well all just go home.


You will have no problem having trailer cues licensed from non-exclusive sites, etc, but I honestly think you're wasting your time with the major trailer production houses. The reality is....what do you have to offer that's superior to the composers they already use?


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## tetrafiremusic (Feb 7, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You will have no problem having trailer cues licensed from non-exclusive sites, etc, but I honestly think you're wasting your time with the major trailer production houses. The reality is....what do you have to offer that's superior to the composers they already use?


i feel like this is a very philosophical question, really.

i couldn't tell you what i can offer that the other composers can't. 
maybe a different artistic point of view, because i am a modern classical composer first and foremost (i have 4 albums released). or maybe i'll write some new tracks that strike that perfect balance between functionality and originality that was talked about earlier. 
maybe they'll just like my face : )) 

joking aside, i do see your point. i really do. 
but i feel like it's not a waste of time, and things can happen. would be a pity if all of us resign our selves to being audiojungle composers because all the cool spots are taken.

i'm just an idealist i guess, but i've been doing music since 2013 in many different scenarios, so i am realistic about how hard it is.


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## bosone (Feb 7, 2022)

my 2 cents:
try also to look at the videogame scene.
there are countless of game studios that surely need trailers for their game


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## mat1 (Feb 12, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> You will have no problem having trailer cues licensed from non-exclusive sites, etc, but I honestly think you're wasting your time with the major trailer production houses. The reality is....what do you have to offer that's superior to the composers they already use?



I know one of the guys posted in the examples on the first page. Their publisher wanted to put out the very first album of trailer music I wrote. Unfortunately it was already promised to a small library so now those cues are making pennies on cooking show adverts and not blockbuster films.


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## davidson (Feb 12, 2022)

mat1 said:


> I know one of the guys posted in the examples on the first page. Their publisher wanted to put out the very first album of trailer music I wrote. Unfortunately it was already promised to a small library so now those cues are making pennies on cooking show adverts and not blockbuster films.


Now I've got visions of huge hybrid epic braams being played over Mary Berry baking sponge cakes


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## bvaughn0402 (Feb 12, 2022)

Quantum Leap said:


> I haven’t spoken about the trailer industry for a long time. I was part of the beginning of the music for trailer industry in the late 90s doing music for Music Junkies. All the samples I was doing at the same time were created with trailers in mind. I made the mistake of telling other customers about my success in the trailer industry on northernsounds. LOL. before I knew it, it seemed like everyone was a trailer composer. But, as everyone moved towards that industry, many trailer agencies saw the money on the table and in typical corporate fashion, hired in house composers to kill us all off. License fees got smaller, many jobs were in house and royalties never materialized because trailers are mostly exempt from royalties. There was still business, but by 2010 it started to get tougher. Another disturbing trend materialized and that was they didn’t really want much melody any more. They wanted more and more great sounding, but familiar generic music. Thomas and I moved Two Steps From Hell away from trailers for this reason. We got our huge following from a few big trailers, so we were lucky.


Thanks for your perspective on this. It makes me come back to the idea that maybe I'm more of an artist than a composer.

Because I like writing music that only matters to ME, not trying to get a sync placement. But I find myself constantly back trying to pitch music to people who either don't want to listen, are only looking for a niche or top 40 tracks, or I'm competing against 100's or 1000's of other composers.

Versus doing MY music in which I have NO competition. 

I always forget it is opposite battles.

With music pitching, I am trying to convince ONE particular person to like me.

As an artist, I know everyone won't like me. Thus, among millions of people, I'm finding the people that like me AS I AM.

I will still pitch music though. But I hate how I get pulled in by the glamor of it and find myself 6 months down the road doing more music to please someone else and get their approval, than just simply enjoying life and doing music I like instead ... and screw anyone if they don't like it. :D


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 12, 2022)

mat1 said:


> I know one of the guys posted in the examples on the first page. Their publisher wanted to put out the very first album of trailer music I wrote. Unfortunately it was already promised to a small library so now those cues are making pennies on cooking show adverts and not blockbuster films.


If that trailer house liked your stuff that much, I’m sure they’d commission you for an album.


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## mat1 (Feb 12, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> If that trailer house liked your stuff that much, I’m sure they’d commission you for an album.



Oh I have no doubt they wanted it because it was release ready, interesting enough and required zero effort on their behalf. Obviously I was very lucky to have a co-sign in the first place.

The point of the story was really that if you have interesting music and can make a few connections it's not impossible to get your foot in the door. That's been my experience in every area of the music industry so far from session work, to songwriting, to adverts, to library work and currently artist stuff.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 12, 2022)

mat1 said:


> Oh I have no doubt they wanted it because it was release ready, interesting enough and required zero effort on their behalf. Obviously I was very lucky to have a co-sign in the first place.
> 
> The point of the story was really that if you have interesting music and can make a few connections it's not impossible to get your foot in the door. That's been my experience in every area of the music industry so far from session work, to songwriting, to adverts, to library work and currently artist stuff.


True, but your odds of getting your trailer track (from a cold call) into a Hollywood blockbuster has about the same odds as winning Powerball.


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## mat1 (Feb 13, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> True, but your odds of getting your trailer track (from a cold call) into a Hollywood blockbuster has about the same odds as winning Powerball.



Well yeah of course people need time to build up a career but that should be obvious. 

I’m not saying it’s easy but someone has to do it and there are multiple people on this thread doing it right now so it’s obviously not impossible. The odds of getting in are probably about as bad as any other job in music outside of teaching!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 13, 2022)

mat1 said:


> Well yeah of course people need time to build up a career but that should be obvious.
> 
> I’m not saying it’s easy but someone has to do it and there are multiple people on this thread doing it right now so it’s obviously not impossible. The odds of getting in are probably about as bad as any other job in music outside of teaching!


Unless one lives in LA (or similar hub) and is already working in-house for years, writing for major Hollywood trailers isn’t going to happen. That’s the reality. But…there are so many other roads to take in music world.


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## mat1 (Feb 13, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Unless one lives in LA (or similar hub) and is already working in-house for years, writing for major Hollywood trailers isn’t going to happen. That’s the reality. But…there are so many other roads to take in music world.


I disagree. I got a Hollywood trailer without most of that. 

There are hundreds of Hollywood films released each year, probably with multiple trailers for each. There are a BUNCH of composers on this very forum writing for trailers. I bet they all had very different routes in.


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## davidson (Feb 13, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> True, but your odds of getting your trailer track (from a cold call) into a Hollywood blockbuster has about the same odds as winning Powerball.


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## kro (Feb 13, 2022)

I don't even make trailer music and I'm bookmarking this thread! What an amazing source of information! Thank you all


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 13, 2022)

mat1 said:


> I disagree. I got a Hollywood trailer without most of that.
> 
> There are hundreds of Hollywood films released each year, probably with multiple trailers for each. There are a BUNCH of composers on this very forum writing for trailers. I bet they all had very different routes in.


Of course there are. I also compose trailers, but I'll never be writing them for *major *Hollywood films, just not going to happen. And there are indeed some top notch trailer composers on the forum, including the legendary Nick Phoenix himself.....who also says it's an incredibly tough market to be sustainable in (let alone break into). That is truly awesome that you are successful with that market, and I wish the best for those trying to give that a go. I'm just suggesting that it's an extremely slim chance to get it, which has been confirmed by composers in this thread.


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## FrozenIcicle (Feb 15, 2022)

Quantum Leap said:


> I haven’t spoken about the trailer industry for a long time. I was part of the beginning of the music for trailer industry in the late 90s doing music for Music Junkies. All the samples I was doing at the same time were created with trailers in mind. I made the mistake of telling other customers about my success in the trailer industry on northernsounds. LOL. before I knew it, it seemed like everyone was a trailer composer. But, as everyone moved towards that industry, many trailer agencies saw the money on the table and in typical corporate fashion, hired in house composers to kill us all off. License fees got smaller, many jobs were in house and royalties never materialized because trailers are mostly exempt from royalties. There was still business, but by 2010 it started to get tougher. Another disturbing trend materialized and that was they didn’t really want much melody any more. They wanted more and more great sounding, but familiar generic music. Thomas and I moved Two Steps From Hell away from trailers for this reason. We got our huge following from a few big trailers, so we were lucky.


I remember you once said the 'boring' chordal music gets more syncs than the melodic ones on an old forum, and thankfully your partnership with Thomas allows for both markets. Do you have any tips on writing the chordal music because it's not as easy as people think. My mind goes crazy with melodic ideas and I have to force myself to stay in the zone of chords.


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## MeloKeyz (Feb 23, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Companies like APM, Music Vine, Crucial, etc.


Do you have experience with music vine? I heard that they use cheap annual subscription model. Why aren't they using license per track model?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 23, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Do you have experience with music vine? I heard that they use cheap annual subscription model. Why aren't they using license per track model?


Never tried Music Vine. I suspect, like other companies, they offer everything from cheap subscriptions to major licensing. Just because a company has a subscription model doesn't mean that they don't do substantial placements. Always worth a try.


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## chrishurn (Feb 26, 2022)

I'm late to this thread, but just to clarify some points here...

You can definitely write trailer music for Hollywood trailers outside of LA IF you are writing for an established library (key point). You aren't pitching directly to studios, you are writing for a publisher and/or a music library. Many of these libraries generally accept cold submissions from composers if you have trailer tracks that match the production level of what is out there, or better. Most people who send demos do not have trailer-ready music.

From what I can tell, most libraries don't take on a whole bunch of new people, but when someone comes along that has killer tracks, they will give them a chance on a trailer album and perhaps a custom if they show that they have the right skillset.

I know many composers doing this all over the world very successfully, it is not limited to LA by any stretch. Again - things are different if you plan on starting your own trailer house and pitching to trailer houses directly. 

The chances are definitely not "impossible" if you have what trailer houses, publishers, and editors are looking for.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 26, 2022)

chrishurn said:


> You can definitely write trailer music for Hollywood trailers outside of LA IF you are writing for an established library


But the big trailer houses are not using/producing libraries, they are producing custom trailers, no?


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Feb 26, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> But the big trailer houses are not using/producing libraries, they are producing custom trailers, no?


I'm in the french countryside in a tiny village and have been working on major Hollywood trailer campaigns, with custom music. And also writing tracks for albums with some of the biggest publishers out there. Really not sure being in LA would make a difference, actually several top notch trailer composers are not living there.

The big trailer houses don't always rely on custom music, they can also use industry albums - and sometimes ask a custom version of an existing track!


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## kenose (Feb 26, 2022)

Yeah I'm not sure where this idea that all trailer houses exclusively use completely custom music is coming from.

Plenty of existing tracks get used or adapted from existing industry releases. For example, Mark Petrie's track "Vicarious" that Audiomachine adapted with Hans Zimmer for the Dune trailer— originally released in 2016 in fact. So existing material is absolutely used and can sometimes have a life long after release. I would strongly advise anyone interested in writing trailer music to listen and research what music is getting used in actual trailers, you would quickly see that this "custom only" stuff is not true at all.

Yes, trailer houses are not pulling random B tier "epic" tracks from lower end libraries... but all the high end A level libraries have a few trailer labels, whose tracks do get used in... trailers.

And then obviously the smaller, trailer focused companies like Audiomachine, RSM, Ninja Tracks— plenty of those companies have composers working from all over the world in their catalogues.

Additionally, when trailer houses need customs— they go to these trailer focused companies, and then where do you think the companies pull the composers from to do the customs? They pull them from the same pool that is working on their album releases.

EDIT: I think some of the initial responses to the OP confused things— the OP was asking about going DIRECT to the trailer houses. This is obviously next to impossible if you do not have the existing connections/clout— and you probably do need to be in LA.

Once the conversation moved to working with existing publishers, I don't think the "next to impossible" label still applies. It's more like "is your stuff top tier?", if not you probably don't have any chance. But if it IS top tier, you can probably find a publisher with a little leg work.


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## David Chappell (Feb 26, 2022)

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> I'm in the french countryside in a tiny village and have been working on major Hollywood trailer campaigns, with custom music. And also writing tracks for albums with some of the biggest publishers out there. Really not sure being in LA would make a difference, actually several top notch trailer composers are not living there.
> 
> The big trailer houses don't always rely on custom music, they can also use industry albums - and sometimes ask a custom version of an existing track!


In a way, I think being in Europe is an advantage when it comes to customs due to the time difference. Trailer houses can ask for a custom job at closing time LA time - just as Europe is waking up - and then composers can get it finished in time for LA opening up the following morning.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Feb 26, 2022)

David Chappell said:


> In a way, I think being in Europe is at an advantage when it comes to customs due to the time difference. Trailer houses can ask for a custom job at closing time LA time - just as Europe is waking up - and then composers can get it finished in time for LA opening up the following morning.


Indeed! Most of the time, I get briefs in the morning (9-10 am) and submit music around 6pm, when LA is waking up.


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## chrishurn (Feb 26, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> But the big trailer houses are not using/producing libraries, they are producing custom trailers, no?


The trailer houses (editors & producers of the trailer) are pulling tracks from top trailer music libraries, and/or asking for custom submissions from the same libraries. They will put out a search looking for tracks, and also they will be browsing through their catalogues.

Custom jobs include modifying existing library tracks that they have chosen as being ideal for the campaign, or a remix of a song and/or instrumental that they have chosen.

One thing to keep in mind is that trailer music is pitch based, not just for the composers, but for the trailer houses making the trailer as well. This is true for the majority of trailers and TV spots. So it's not like they're hiring one person and saying hey, do this trailer. It's a pitch - sometimes with good chances, other times, it's a big lottery.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 26, 2022)

chrishurn said:


> The trailer houses (editors & producers of the trailer) are pulling tracks from top trailer music libraries, and/or asking for custom submissions from the same libraries. They will put out a search looking for tracks, and also they will be browsing through their catalogues.
> 
> Custom jobs include modifying existing library tracks that they have chosen as being ideal for the campaign, or a remix of a song and/or instrumental that they have chosen.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that trailer music is pitch based, not just for the composers, but for the trailer houses making the trailer as well. This is true for the majority of trailers and TV spots. So it's not like they're hiring one person and saying hey, do this trailer. It's a pitch - sometimes with good chances, other times, it's a big lottery.


That’s good info, thanks for sharing!


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## FrozenIcicle (Feb 27, 2022)

A lot of valuable advice in this thread if you have tracks ready, but are anyone willing to give advice on tracks to get it to trailer ready stage? :D


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## chrishurn (Feb 28, 2022)

FrozenIcicle said:


> A lot of valuable advice in this thread if you have tracks ready, but are anyone willing to give advice on tracks to get it to trailer ready stage? :D


One useful thing to do is find some of the high level stuff out there available to the public (most trailer music isnt available to listen to, its released to the industry only), like from Audiomachine. There are also trailer tracks on the youtube channel "Trailer Music Weekly".

The other thing to do is to digest as many trailers as possible, learn the format, learn how editors cut them, learn the production values and commonalities within tracks (sound design, types of hits / synths etc). Search youtube for any and all TV spots and trailers for the latest films (or anything within the last 2 years). Traileraddict.com is also useful.

Remaking good tracks is a good step to try. The main thing that gets a lot of people stuck is authenticity (ie trailer music and not 'epic' music), and the production value required, as well as having tracks with signature sounds and sonic signatures etc.

Aside from that, there are some courses available which you may find useful. Here are some I have heard of:









Trailer Music Course by Alex Pfeffer


Learn how to write trailer music and license your compositions for TV, film & ads.




www.alexpfeffer.co












Homepage







trailer-music-academy.teachable.com




https://evenant.com/





The Trailer Music School


Learn the craft of writing music for movie trailers




thetrailermusicschool.com





Good luck!


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## FrozenIcicle (Feb 28, 2022)

chrishurn said:


> One useful thing to do is find some of the high level stuff out there available to the public (most trailer music isnt available to listen to, its released to the industry only), like from Audiomachine. There are also trailer tracks on the youtube channel "Trailer Music Weekly".
> 
> The other thing to do is to digest as many trailers as possible, learn the format, learn how editors cut them, learn the production values and commonalities within tracks (sound design, types of hits / synths etc). Search youtube for any and all TV spots and trailers for the latest films (or anything within the last 2 years). Traileraddict.com is also useful.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate for the suggestions appreciate it. Not to sound cocky though, youtube is definitely a great source although I feel like I’m missing tips you learn only by collaborating with professionals. Unfortunate music producing is so secretive in order to gain an edge on the competition


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## chrishurn (Feb 28, 2022)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Thanks mate for the suggestions appreciate it. Not to sound cocky though, youtube is definitely a great source although I feel like I’m missing tips you learn only by collaborating with professionals. Unfortunate music producing is so secretive in order to gain an edge on the competition


Youtube definitely has plenty of good material. On trailer music its very hit and miss, IMO. Lots of people posting trailer music tutorials that are definitely not really trailer music. But it's a starting point for sure. The best way is just to produce a lot of tracks, talk to trailer composers, find out what they're using (there are a few facebook groups for this), etc, and most importantly, studying the format by watching thousands of trailers.

Getting feedback on your tracks by a pro would also be a good idea - you could arrange that quite easily on FB in one of the production/library and/or trailer music groups.


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## DANIELE (Feb 28, 2022)

As a general advice based on my experience. Do as I do, keep composing and keep posting your music on YouTube, Spotify etc...sooner or later someone will notice you. I'm pretty sure that once I will be around 80-90 years old someone will notice me. Even between 90 and 100 years old would be good enough.

Keep working hard, the success is right behind the corner!


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## Mr Greg G (Feb 28, 2022)

DANIELE said:


> As a general advice based on my experience. Do as I do, keep composing and keep posting your music on YouTube, Spotify etc...sooner or later someone will notice you. I'm pretty sure that once I will be around 80-90 years old someone will notice me. Even between 90 and 100 years old would be good enough.
> 
> Keep working hard, the success is right behind the corner!


Composing (quality) tracks is obviously a good thing but working on your networking should also be a priority.


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