# Jackson not guilty!



## choc0thrax (Jun 13, 2005)

ahhhhhhh times infinity.


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## handz (Jun 13, 2005)

Money rule the world.


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## Yogi Loeschner (Jun 13, 2005)

Now what exactly does that mean for you...? :wink:


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## choc0thrax (Jun 13, 2005)

Yeah like when O.J. cut off those peoples heads with an axe and got away with it.


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## fitch (Jun 13, 2005)

do you know what :D ..

i'm glad i cut my tv connection 2 months ago now :D


have missed the lot.. thank god. 


decision sounds laughable though... there's never any smoke without fire


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## choc0thrax (Jun 13, 2005)

I havent had a t.v. in my house for almost 5 years...


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## Herman Witkam (Jun 13, 2005)

Of course he's not guilty. He's just been behaving pretty stupid in front of the camera and the whole circus of media wolves.


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## José Herring (Jun 13, 2005)

Celebrities never get convicted. Plus the prosecution in Los Angeles stinks. They put on the worse case with the worse witnesses. It's almost like they were payed off by the Jackson camp to blow it. But, I think that they just blew it all on their own.

Jose


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## Niah (Jun 13, 2005)

"wwooooohhhhhhh I love her Oprahhhh I love herr!!"

:lol:


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## José Herring (Jun 13, 2005)

Tom Cruise? How did we get here from Michael Jackson? What the heck are you guys talking about? Am I missing something?

I've met Cruise before. He's a great guy. Pretty regular kind of a bloke. He even has pretty cool kids and a great sister. I heard one of his kids speak at a school graduation here in Los Angeles. Delphi's the name of the school. I'd like to send my little one there but the $1000/month base tuition is a little pricey. Pretty bright little fellow though Cruise kid is? He's half black. Think he's adopted. Good in math too.

I guess if you're famous people get to say all sorts of bad things about you no matter what great work you do or no matter how cool you are. Glad I'm not a movie star. Though I would love $40,000,000 for my next film. I guess that makes up for all the gossip if you're a star :lol: 

Jose


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 14, 2005)

Actually, I think his reaction is pretty normal. Ever fallen in love? The only difference is that our reactions don't get broadcast all over the world! Now, as for Scientology... :roll: :shock: :cry:

Huh, BTW, I'm referring to Tom, not Michael. :lol:


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## TheoKrueger (Jun 14, 2005)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> He used a knife.



:lol: Good one Nick


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## José Herring (Jun 14, 2005)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Now, as for Scientology... :roll: :shock: :cry:



Your statement about Scientology is actually quite hurtful. I love Scientology and pratice it daily. How do you think a Jew would feel if you made the same statement about their religion.

Those who are scared of Scientology usually don't even know the first thing about it. They usually haven't even read one book on the subject and yet think they "know all about it". 

I find that when I talk to people they are pleasently suprised by what Scientology is really about. The word itself comes from "Scio" which means knowing, and "logos or ology" which means study of. So together Scientology means the study of knowing or in traditional philosohpy it was better know as Epistemology. 

Through Scientology you get an accurate method of getting to know yourself, your capabilities, and the ways in which you as a spiritual being interact with the world and the people in it. It takes the mystery out of communication, understanding, and dealings with others. 

Me personally have become less depressed and more passionate about life. My IQ has gone up about 30 pts. My ability to communicate with other people has skyrocketed. I can study things and learn them instantly due to study skills I learned from the Church. My grammar has improved, not perfect, but better. I'm also more in present time. Not victimized by past negative thoughts. 

I have much yet to achieve to make my life optimal, but where I am now compared to where I was is night and day thanks to the work I've done in that religion.

Composer Mark Isham introduced me to Scientology. And, I can tell you he's a pretty neat guy too.



Cheers,

Jose


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## choc0thrax (Jun 14, 2005)

The only thing I can think of when I hear scientology is that big epic turkey of a movie Battlefield Earth. Has that really damaged the religion in any way? Is scientology only soemthing in Hollywood or does it exist elsewhere too?


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## Niah (Jun 14, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Ned Bouhalassa said:
> 
> 
> > Now, as for Scientology... :roll: :shock: :cry:
> ...



I don't understand. What statement about scientology? Is this :roll: :shock: :( a statement?
I didn't felt it was even and opinion.

Perhaps your scientology is better than mine and you can read peoples minds? :wink:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 14, 2005)

Jose, I'm sorry if I offended you. It's just that I come from the land of Ra?l...


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## José Herring (Jun 14, 2005)

I really don't want to turn this thread into a religious battlefield. Everybody in my opinion is free to beleive what they want to believe. Nor do I want to turn this thread into a big push on any religion. I was just trying to express that I think it's unfair to make comments about somebody's religion. Especially a religion that goes out of it's way to help people.

Yes, Choco it exist all over the world and the movie has nothing to do with Scientology other that it's based off a book that the founder wrote in his spare time.

Make fun of all you want the truth is that Scientology helps people all over the world and does things to make things better that the world isn't even aware of yet. Like helping thousands of people get of drugs with a drug program that has a success rate of %90. And also helps reform criminals. Plus it helps everyday people like me to be more excited about life and to be more successful. Those things are real enough to me.

Is it a perfect religion....hardly. Is it a workable pratical religion that makes people better? Yes. I'm living proof. You should have met me before I became a Scientologist. Before I could hardly wake up in the morning I was so depressed.

'nough said.

Jose


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## choc0thrax (Jun 14, 2005)

Well as we can all see Scientology sure has done wonders for Tom Cruise' mood. I'm surprised beams of light dont start emitting from him.


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## Jon Paouli Trapek (Jun 14, 2005)

You're thinking of Count Dooku.

Jackson was lucky enough to face a court in Hollywood. I'm pretty certain if it had happened in the UK he'd have been lynched.

I love the fact that, on AOL today, it said that he's going to stop sleeping with children. Well, hallelujah!, or whatever equivalent you say in scientology class, Jose. Its perverted, sexual relations or not.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 14, 2005)

I think stopping sleeping with children is a little extreme and if he can go cold turkey and do it fine. I tell you it's not easy, not easy at all...*yells at timmy for hogging the comforter last night.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 14, 2005)

> My IQ has gone up about 30 pts



IQ is supposed to be a measure of innate intelligence, Jose. How can a religion do that?

I suspect you had some training that taught you how to understand the test better. After all, it's not totally unbiased - educated populations score higher, in other words. (And of course I'm not impugning your education, I'm just making the point about IQ tests.)


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## Niah (Jun 14, 2005)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> > My IQ has gone up about 30 pts
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Innate? Not quite true.

There have been all sorts of schools of thought towards this matter of what determines intelligence. Genetics? social background? culture? I don't want to get into that which is quite complicated but lets just say that's it's a mixture of everything.

There was a study made with twins (same genetic brackground) in which one was brought up in a healthy family environment and the other in a low class environment.
The twin that had a healthy social background scored higher than the other. 
The same happens to when low-class citizens take the IQ test and score low. They just don't have the tools for it.
So intellegence is not really innate but determined by a serious of factors that range from genetics, to social background, culture etc etc...
So you are absolutely right when you say educated people score higher - because they have the tools.

The IQ test is just a test that determines your capabilities in a series of areas, like for instance calculus. 
Even if you're an educated person you can always improve those capabilities and score higher on the IQ test. Nothing is static.


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## José Herring (Jun 14, 2005)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> > My IQ has gone up about 30 pts
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nah, I never had any training to understand the test better.

IQ isn't static. You can always be smarter than you are. There's no innate limit. That's just a lie propigated by some schools of the mind that want to convince whole populations that they're stupid and can't get any better.

It's quite easy to understand your own mind and to improve it's functioning. A lot easier than learning an instrument. Just have to know how to look and what to look at when you study the mind. It's not the brain beleive it or not. If you can get past the idea that man is just an animal then you can improve him and yourself quite easily.

Man is actually a composite being with the senior entity being the spirit. The spirit has unlimited capabilities and is capable of unlimited intelligence. That's what Scienotology studies. The capabilities of the spirit.

But like I said I don't want to turn the Michael Jackson thread into a talk about my religion. 

Everything I'm saying can be easily learned by picking up a book on Scientology at your library or at your local bookstore.

Jose


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## José Herring (Jun 14, 2005)

Folmann said:


> The scientology definition of "IQ" is about as bright as its inventor - a mediocre science fiction writer. The problem with the mathematical/logical way of looking at IQ is that its pretty much useless in a modern society context.



Again. Why make rude comments about which you know nothing about?

Tell me again. What is the Scientology defintion of intelligence? Because you sure didn't get it right in the quote above. But that's cool.

Intelligence is the ability of a person to solve problems related to survival. It includes all the stuff that you mentioned above and also a whole host of other things.

How bright you are in solving problems whether they relate to music, or communication, bills paying, science, art, weather it doesn't matter.

All I'm saying is that if you're going to knock it at least get it right.

I didn't know that religious intolleracne was the order of the day for you Folmann. Goes a long way to showing everybody your true character.

Jose


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## Niah (Jun 14, 2005)

Folmann said:


> Linguistic intelligence (as in a poet);
> Logical-mathematical intelligence (as in a scientist);
> Musical intelligence (as in a composer);
> Spatial intelligence (as in a sculptor or airplane pilot);
> ...



Yes there are all sorts of types off intelligence. 
The IQ test is also a very subjective test, in the sense that it only focus on the result and not on the process, meaning the estratagies and tools that each person used in reaching that same score.


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## Alex W (Jun 14, 2005)




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## jc5 (Jun 14, 2005)

Niah said:


> The IQ test is just a test that determines your capabilities in a series of areas, like for instance calculus.
> Even if you're an educated person you can always improve those capabilities and score higher on the IQ test. Nothing is static.



Actually, this brings up an interesting point that needs to be considered before determining whether IQ testing is valid or not. There are a variety of vastly different tests floating about that pose as "IQ" tests, but most are actually no such thing. Any "IQ" test whose questions are dependent on knowledge based answers are not true IQ tests. Asking you about history, geography, or mathematics does not determine your intelligence in the least bit - it determines y < @öúŠÙú   è ¿ÌfH50fbc301 25847046845cdac721bcd2.jpg [email protected]öú‹Ù*&     ÃÑfHd516d464 1674655315482ccadf01697.jpg [email protected]þúŒÙ*&   *
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## José Herring (Jun 14, 2005)

Folmann said:


> Let me state my main concerns regarding Scientology for you:
> 
> - Why is money is involved in the religion?
> - Why is it based on "secret scripts" and "hierarchies"?
> ...



I didn't want this to turn into a Scientology debate so I'll answer your questions fairly rapidly.

Money. It cost money to deliver the services of Scientology. It's worth every penny and more. The people that deliver the services do so at about $75/ week average salary. It takes four staff members to service one parishioner. It's a costly endevor for everybody to run. The organizations aren't small. Plus every religion ask for money. At least with Scn. you get some helpful course or spiritual conseling in return.

There are very little secret scripts. A lot of Scn. you can pick up by reading books that you can find on your bookstore shelf. Some of Scientology is confidential. You have to reach a certain level of awareness to have access.

There's no social hierachy in Scientology. I don't know where you got that. That's just false.

It's not ban in any country or state to date. That's just false if you think so. It's available in all nations except for Iran, Iraq and Saudia Arabia for obvious reasons as all religions are pretty much ban in those countries. Plus Scientology is only 50 years old. It's quite new and every new religion on Earth has been persecuted. Just look at what happen to Christ. He says I come in peace and I'd like to show you how to love one another. And, we killed him. Well, nobody said that this Earth was a sane planet.

Phychiatry brought us LSD, electric shock, Prozac. Scientology is very against drugs and surgery as a cure to mental ills. The cure to these things lies in spiritual conseling not shocking the brain or druging the awareness of a person.

Scientology and Dianetics are based on over 200 axioms. Everything in it was tested in the real world for validity. It's actaully more of a science than physics is. It deals with the spirit and its energy manifestations in the physical universe which actually operates at wavelengths smaller and above the wavelengths of light.

To give you an example. You have a thought that you want to be a great composer. You set out on your quest. You as a spiritual being actually put out energy in that direction. That's called a vector. Then one day you get a call from somebody who heard your CD and they insult you. You then regret having sent the CD. So now you have an oposite vector on the same subject. These thoughts have a tiny amount of electric charge.

So the first vector is "I want to be a successful composer". That's a thought or a postulate as it's called in Scientology. The next thing that happens is after the rejection you have a second thought on the same subject of composer. That second thought is, "I regret ever having sent that CD". Those two energy manifestations colide in the mind and get stuck. It becomes in the mental sphere a brick wall. You have one vector going one way then another going in the oposite direction. Prosurval vs. regret which is counter to survival. Where the two meet you get an energy manifestations called a ridge. At that point your thoughts gets stuck or frozen in time.

You've probably seen people that get stuck in some major loss and can't get out of it. It's that mechanism at play that makes people stuck in past failures.

Scientology can safely unstick a persons thoughts from past upsets and failures so that he has all his mental powers to face the present and future.

A Science is just something that is based on empyrical evidence. Scientology works and that's all. It's based on experiments and observed facts.

Psychiatry on the other hand is the same practice that the vodoo medicine man practiced. Yeah sure it's all modernized but the techniques are the same. Instead of Peyote they use prozac and in the '50's they used LSD. Instead of drug induced electric shock that the Greeks invented the Psychiatrist uses electric juice. And the Ice pick up the nose that they use in lebodomies and transorbital luekotomy, well I'm afraid that even witch doctors aren't that cruel.

Psychiatry is a dying field designed to control the masses by depressing the awaress and the intelligence of man to a point where they become walking zombies. Just look at the population these days. It's drugged to death. The goal of Psychiatry is clearly stated in their own text. Make man a tame animal that will obey the will of it's master. If you need me to find a quote for you I will.

How's that for short. :lol: 

Jose


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 14, 2005)

Chick Corea was my favorite musician following Scientology, obviously drawing a lot of inspiration from it. Does this mean I should drop my beliefs and go to the nearest Dianetics center? No. Conversely, should I invalidate the belief system simply because it doesn't mesh with my own? Again, no. 

People are free to believe or disbelieve - at least here on VI. I just wish we were a little more tolerant of those with alternative beliefs as well as with those who don't believe in them. Instead of dissing one another for either believing or disbelieving, perhaps we could simply revel in the diversity we have here and focus on what unifies us rather than ultimately the inconsequential differences serving only to divide us? Just my two pesos.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 14, 2005)

That assessment of psychiatry is hopelessly out of date, Jose, and it doesn't take into account that there are a lot of people with organic problems rather than psychological ones.

Being "against" medication is just silly. Sure Prozac is over-prescribed. Sure ADHD is over-diagnosed. Freud was a product of his time. And so on.

But to dismiss the whole profession as mind control over the masses is just ridiculous. I have a schizophrenic nephew who just graduated from college in his early 40s, and that wouldn't have been possible without medication. Scientology wouldn't do a damn thing for him. (Actually, he's totally OTT with Judaism; extreme religion is typical for schizophrenics. But it doesn't do a damn thing for him either.)

Recently I talked to a woman who really did have ADD - she's a psychiatrist now - and she said that she wished her parents would have had her on medication when she was a child. It would have spared her years of pain.

So to make those blanket claims about psychiatry is ludicrous.


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## Alex W (Jun 14, 2005)

Thanks for posting this stuff Jose, I find it very interesting. However, I found the following paragraph dubious.



josejherring said:


> Psychiatry is a dying field designed to control the masses by depressing the awaress and the intelligence of man to a point where they become walking zombies. Just look at the population these days. It's drugged to death. The goal of Psychiatry is clearly stated in their own text. Make man a tame animal that will obey the will of it's master. If you need me to find a quote for you I will.
> 
> Jose



My brother, my father and I have AD/HD. We go to a psychiatrist who prescribes dexamphetamine. For myself, the effectiveness of this drug is measurable in a number of ways, particularly in my music / work output, which is often half of what it would be if I don't take it. It also allows me to focus a lot more clearly on conversations and it has even cut down my numerous muscular twitches and ticks that have come and go over the years.

AD/HD is inherited genetically, and it effects the brain on a chemical level. The simple run down is that somewhere inside the brain, there is a "plate" which when hit by dopamine, fires an electrical signal. in an AD/HD brain, this plate is blunted so that there's far less chance of this signal firing when hit by dopamine. Dexamphetamine's role is to increase the amount of dopamine hitting this plate, effectively increasing the chance of the signal being fired. There are newer protoypes for AD/HD drugs in development, but presently, this is the highest level of understanding we have in terms of treating the symptoms of AD/HD.

I acknowledge that no one can say with certainty whether or not there will be any long term detrimental side effects from taking this drug. I am taking a chance there, no doubt. I'm optimistic, and I'm not really worried.

My point is that I disagree that psychiatry is a dying field. We don't understand the brain enough to know how to completely cure AD/HD and many other brain related problems. So while this is the case, there are a lot people like myself who rely on their knowledge and prescription drugs to help us cope better with day to day life.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 14, 2005)

And having grown up in the '70s, my orientation is to see things as psychological rather than neurological. You really can't discount either, though.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 14, 2005)

Alex, I understood that dexamphetamine makes tics worse! But obviously I'm wrong. And I guess it depends on the person.


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## José Herring (Jun 14, 2005)

Never my intention to dis anybody's belief in whatever it takes for them to make it through the day.

Just my thoughts and my opinions.

Jose


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 14, 2005)

Nor mine, Jose. I'm not arguing with Scientology or any other religion...although to be honest, I've said many times that I'm not a huge fan of any of them right now, since all I see them doing is dividing people. But that's a separate discussion we've had on NS, and actually I haven't heard of Scientology being divisive like that.

My only argument is with the idea that psychiatry is useless, when in fact it helps a lot of people with some serious problems that just can't be dealt with any other way. My nephew - a funny concept for someone who's just a little younger than I am - couldn't possibly have made it through college when I first met him 15 years ago. No way. The only reason he's been able to is that medical science has produced better drugs.

It's that simple.


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## José Herring (Jun 14, 2005)

Folmann said:


> There is some truth in Joses statement about our "prescripted reality" or "prozac nation" oriented culture. But that does not justify a vendetta on psychiatry or psychology. Depression can be cured in many ways. Some people use scientology, however the majority of people have another belief and its interesting to see how that obviously disturbs scientologists.
> 
> :roll:



Got it
:D 

Jose


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## José Herring (Jun 14, 2005)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Nor mine, Jose. I'm not arguing with Scientology or any other religion...although to be honest, I've said many times that I'm not a huge fan of any of them right now, since all I see them doing is dividing people. But that's a separate discussion we've had on NS, and actually I haven't heard of Scientology being divisive like that.
> 
> My only argument is with the idea that psychiatry is useless, when in fact it helps a lot of people with some serious problems that just can't be dealt with any other way. My nephew - a funny concept for someone who's just a little younger than I am - couldn't possibly have made it through college when I first met him 15 years ago. No way. The only reason he's been able to is that medical science has produced better drugs.
> 
> It's that simple.



Understood.

Cheers,

Jose


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## Alex W (Jun 14, 2005)

Folmann said:


> Alex. My deepest respect goes out to you for being this open and honest on the subject. Thx man.



cheers mate, no probs at _all_.

!  thanks for acknowledging.

Nick - you're right it can actually do the opposite to some people. Another of the warnings listed is _Concomitant use of cannabis (marijuana) may result in a psychosis, a severe temporary insanity._


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## Brian Ralston (Jun 15, 2005)

I have to admit though...this photo made me laugh a bit. :D


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 29, 2005)

> Cruise is a follower of the Scientology church founded by science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, and his recent willingness to discuss the faith has raised eyebrows in the media.
> 
> Most controversially, Cruise criticized actress Brooke Shields for revealing she had taken antidepressants. An official Scientology Web site argues that people should live drug-free.
> 
> Cruise also dismissed psychiatry as a "pseudo science", invoking the ire of the American Psychiatric Association that called the remarks "irresponsible".



That was from CNN today. Why does Scientology say psychiatry is pseudo science, Jose? I had no idea that it did.[/quote]


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## jc5 (Jun 29, 2005)

What ever happened to those stories that Cruise wanted out because they were hitting his bank accounts pretty hard against his will? I don't know if there is any truth to it, but it wasn't the only story fo its kind to surface... and then quickly disappear... :?


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## José Herring (Jun 29, 2005)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> > Cruise is a follower of the Scientology church founded by science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, and his recent willingness to discuss the faith has raised eyebrows in the media.
> >
> > Most controversially, Cruise criticized actress Brooke Shields for revealing she had taken antidepressants. An official Scientology Web site argues that people should live drug-free.
> >
> ...


[/quote]

Hmmmm. Tough one. Mostly Cruise is saying that. I think a lot of people get confused between Scientology and Scientologist.

I personally don't think that Psychiatry is a psuedo science. I think they know exactly what they're doing. 

Back in 1850 a psychologist named Max Wundt proposed a theory that man was an animal. Before that, psychology literally meant, the study of the soul. He chucked that definition and proposed the idea that man was just an animal without a soul. His papers are easy to find if you look for them on the internet.

Scientology in 1952 then proved that man was a soul with conclusive evidence. Whether you believe that or not doesn't really make a difference. It's true or not true and there's a lot of evidence in Scietology that man is a composite of three different things. 1) His soul or life force reigns as the chief awareness unit. 2) Then this soul uses a mind which surounds and is contained in the body. These things are three seperate things that interrelate in this universe.

Okay, the fued between Scientology and Psychiatry stems in the difference of viewpoints.

See if you think that man is an animal then you start down a path of treating him like one. Professor Max Wundt's major contribution to mandkind was stimulus response conditioning. The problem with stimulus response conditioning is that it derranges the thinking center(soul) of man. It puts it into a state in which external force overpowers the awareness (soul again) and thus makes the individual controlable by this conditioning.

Governments and their constant threat of punishment use this stimulus response conditioning mechanism to control whole populations. Problem is that it doesn't work well and what you end up with is a deranged society. This much is evident in the over crowded prisions and the rate at which those prisoners return to prison. And, violence in schools, ect.

You must realize that these things, high crime and drug abuse in society are quite new. They came about through the abuse of mankind by techniques derived from psychiatrist and psychologist. It's not a lie that psychiatry brought into society it's most harmful drugs, LSD, PCP and extacy. And it's also no lie that all the major school shootings in this society came from kids that where on psych prescribed drugs. That's why in Colorado a senator pushed through a bill forbidding any school official from forcing kids onto psych drugs.

So psychiatry's main aim is to force the awareness(soul again) of a person into a state of apathy because people in apathy act like sheep. Drugs do the same thing. They force a person into an apathetic type state.

I've actually done quite a bit of research on psych drugs. There's a paper done by Columbia University professors that basically said that they don't know exactly how they work. But, then it goes into detail of exactly how they work. :? 

First, there's is no real scientific proof according to this paper that there is any such thing as a "chemical imbalance of the brain". That's why those commercials that push them are careful to say,"may" before any statement about chemical imbalances in the brain. 

The drugs basically do two things. In spite of the many variaty of psych drugs they all act the same way. These drugs thin the blood and then restrict the flow of blood to the brain. Oh, sure the psychs call it "serotonin inhibitors" or some such confusing thing. Just realize that serotonin is caried in the blood stream. So basically they starve the brain of needed oxygen and nutrients.

This has the following effect. It puts a person in a state of drug induce euphoria(no time to look up the spelling). Again this is the stimulus response type thinking. Problem with this euphoria is that the lack of nutrients and oxygen to the brain over a longish period has some really devistating effects. Sure at first you get the "high" but then there's the gradual melt down. And, as with any drug your body starts to crave more of it to get the same effects and then, you're hooked. And, getting off of the drug once you're hooked is very difficult.

So, this subject is really complexed and has a 150 year history. But, the documentation is out there if anybody really cares to look at it.

I too when I first became a Scientologist didn't really believe or agree with all the psych bashing but then I really looked into it and it got uglier the more I looked and then when I found the "scientific" research that was going on with the electric shocking of pigs, the drugging of elephants with LSD done at UCLA and the tools they use for lebodomies and transorbital luekodomies-- ice picks, I got scared and I soon realized that most of that profession isn't really in the business of helping people.

Well anyway that's enough on the subject and I fear to even press the submit button due to the backlash from some anti-scientologist here.

But, there's my research on the subject and why I think psychiatry isn't all that it claims to be. But most people sense that already.

Jose

P.S. Any more discussion should be put into a new thread. MJ has nothing to do with Scn. other than a brief marriage to Elvis Presley's daughter who is a scienotologist. What was she thinkin'?


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## José Herring (Jun 29, 2005)

jc5 said:


> What ever happened to those stories that Cruise wanted out because they were hitting his bank accounts pretty hard against his will? I don't know if there is any truth to it, but it wasn't the only story fo its kind to surface... and then quickly disappear... :?



That's illegal. How would anybody in Scientology have access to anybody's personal bank account? That's the first I've heard of that.

Jose


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## jc5 (Jun 29, 2005)

josejherring said:


> jc5 said:
> 
> 
> > What ever happened to those stories that Cruise wanted out because they were hitting his bank accounts pretty hard against his will? I don't know if there is any truth to it, but it wasn't the only story fo its kind to surface... and then quickly disappear... :?
> ...



I couldn't tell you - it briefly made the news, made a little talk, then disappeared. This must have been a couple of years ago. Around the same time there was talk in the German legislature of banning Scientology in that country, for reasons such as that... don't know how that ended up - perhaps one of our resident germans might recall (it most likely had more news coverage there after all)?

Please don't take this personally, I wasn't really looking to get involved in the discussion but that funny picture of Tom Cruise just made me think of that incident, and surrounding events.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 30, 2005)

After a very quick search in Google, I've found a number of sites with articles that are very critical of Scientology, some of which are written by by former members. Here's a long and fascinating one: http://www.lermanet2.com/exit/FINAL.htm


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2005)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> After a very quick search in Google, I've found a number of sites with articles that are very critical of Scientology, some of which are written by by former members. Here's a long and fascinating one: http://www.lermanet2.com/exit/FINAL.htm



Yeah, you can find criticizm of anything really.

Why don't you try looking at the sites of people that are actually happy with Scn. Look at what scientology is about. Why only look at one side of an issue?

Look up the "Way to Happiness" campaign. Look up "Narconon". Look up the article on "Personal Integrity". Look up the people that use Scientology to better their lives. 

And, take note that it's drug free.

Usually those former "members" are critical because they were booted out. 

I didn't want to do this here but since you provided an unofficial link I'll provide some official ones.

http://www.twth.org/
http://www.aboutlronhubbard.org/eng/wis3_4.htm
http://www.scientology.org/html/opencms/cos/scientology/en_US/world/news/volunteer-ministers/pg001.html (http://www.scientology.org/html/opencms ... pg001.html)



Jose


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## jc5 (Jun 30, 2005)

josejherring said:


> I don't take it personally I just think that it's impossible to do.
> 
> The banning of Scientology in Germany never came to be and that was never proposed as a reason. I did see the speach of the Chancellor that was heading the fight against Scientology and he was a nut job. Paraniod kind of guy that complete didn't understand Scientology. He was removed by his own people and it was later exposed by his own government in a freedom of information act that he order his chief leutenant, a women forget her name, to have his government agencies fabricate a bunch of evidence against Scientology.
> 
> Like I've said before. It's not really a sane world we live in and the people that run it now I consider the most insane of us all.



Regarding the accounts thing, if there were any truth in it (_if_ being the key word here of course), the implication would be that Cruise and any others in a similar situation gave permission to access the accounts, and then someone at the organization went overboard with withdrawls - and whether that were an accident or something more would remain to be seen...

And about what happened in Germany, I remember there being a minor ruckus which received scanty coverage in the news which then died down without ever closing the story.

Ah well, back to music. :wink:


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2005)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> After a very quick search in Google, I've found a number of sites with articles that are very critical of Scientology, some of which are written by by former members. Here's a long and fascinating one: http://www.lermanet2.com/exit/FINAL.htm



Hmmmm. read the article in full Ned. I doubt that that guy has ever been a Scientologist as he's misquoted just about everything. Chances are that the guy probably got a hold of some Scientology literature and then stole the title of some documents to try and convince people that he knows something about it.

I already got the answers to who I am? Where I come from and is there god?

If this guy didn't figure that out in "15" years of doing Scientology then he's quite stupid.

Diantetics and Scienotology are very cleary defined and there's no effort to deceive. It's a lie that he's saying that there's no Science involved because there is. It's a science based on inductive and deductive reasoning techniques and some real life experiments done on several hundred cases spaning 25 years.

If you have any questions about any point that he raised there easily addressed.

As for mind control, :roll: 

If you knew the ways that minds could be controlled you'd be really aware of the fact that the TV and drugs are doing a pretty good job of that already. And those things are considered perfectly acceptable in this day and age.

It's funny that people accuse Scientology of "mind control." Makes me laugh. Because it points out to me that people think that their mind isn't already being controlled! LOL. :lol:

Smoke pot. There's a form of mind control. Get drunk. More mind control. Ever wanted to buy a car you saw on TV. Mind control. Ever drool over that model in a magazine. Mind control again. People are beat to death with mind control tactics everyday to get them to buy things and to vote for this or that.

So that you won't be victim to mind control I share with you the techniques. 1) Use pain or drugs to depress the awareness of a person 2) install a command when the person is drugged or under pain.

or
1) Fix a persons attention on some object(like TV pictures or nudy pictures on a computer screen..hehehe. 2) Make a suggestion when the persons attention is fixed.

See a person has to be able to control his own attention in order to not be subject to mind control. Scientologyamong many other things has taught me to take control of my own mind and attention span to that I can freely direct it at will. The power of an individual is based on this in my opinion. That's why I can go for 8 to 10 hours of music writing a day without getting whiped out. Then I can turn around and be with my family, then I can go volunteer at my church with about 5 to 6 hours a sleep a night. 

Not a problem. 

Drugs and hypnotism are the chief mind control mechanisms and I can assure that Scientology is wholy against all those things. 

That article is so funny because it's so full of out right lies.

Here's the true "Dissemination Formula":

1) Show a person that help is possible
2) Show him that control (of his life or of his envinronment) is not always bad
3) Find something that's ruining is life
4) Interest him in Scienotology or Dianetics.

The dissem. formula that that guy mentioned show that a) he has never been a part of scientology and he's claiming that he has or b) he's lying about it in order to scare people away.

Did it work? Are you scared of the big bad, no drug, no violence Scientologist.


Jose :o


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2005)

jc5 said:


> josejherring said:
> 
> 
> > I don't take it personally I just think that it's impossible to do.
> ...



Last thing and then If anybody has any more questions they can PM me.

If Cruise wanted out of Scn, he would have been free to do so. The doors are open. There's nobody keeping him or anybody in. That's what's so wierd about this allegation.

And as far as Germany. It was a big deal to Scientologist. Basically it amounted to religious persecuttion. Like it or hate Scn. I don't care. But allow people to practice the religion they want.

A lot people fought very hard over a period of 2 years in order to allow others to practice Scientology. I don't get why people fight it really. If you don't like it. Don't do it. It's simple. But why should some government decide for me what religion I should or shouldn't practice. Screw 'em. I love Scientology. Many people do and some don't. So what. In a free society we can practice whatever religion we want.

Jose


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## choc0thrax (Jun 30, 2005)

That L Ron Hubbard must be loaded! Anyone interested in joining chocothraxology? To start all you need to do is buy an array of expensive books and you will understand the universe and most importantly the top tips for killing hobos secretly.


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## jc5 (Jun 30, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Like I've said before. It's not really a sane world we live in and the people that run it now I consider the most insane of us all.



Well, here is a statement I can hardly take issue with! :lol: or should it be :cry: ? :wink:


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## Jon Paouli Trapek (Jun 30, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> That L Ron Hubbard must be loaded! Anyone interested in joining chocothraxology? To start all you need to do is buy an array of expensive books and you will understand the universe and most importantly the top tips for killing hobos secretly.



Do we get access to unlimited quality girl-on-girl porn?.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 30, 2005)

Yes! And the best part is they're hobos! Tune in for our featured video this month- Yeast Infected Young Ones.


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## José Herring (Jun 30, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> That L Ron Hubbard must be loaded! Anyone interested in joining chocothraxology? To start all you need to do is buy an array of expensive books and you will understand the universe and most importantly the top tips for killing hobos secretly.



Ron is dead. He never made a dime off of Scn. books just to clear the record. All the money made in Scientology goes back into the church. Churhces are a not for profit organization. You can look up the laws on it. Basically no one person can profit. All the money has to be put back into the organization.

Like I said I think the average Scn. salary is $75/week. 

He made his money selling Pulp fiction mostly. Just to clear the record.

Okay, promise. This is my last post on it.

Jose :roll:


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## Chrislight (Jun 30, 2005)

> That L Ron Hubbard must be loaded! Anyone interested in joining chocothraxology?


 
Wow! Looks like somebody got a promotion - Saint Hobo?!?! :shock:


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