# Studio One - Why no professional endorsements?



## dylanmixer (Oct 20, 2020)

What the title says. I'm a Cubase user, sort of peaking over the fence in to the neighbors yard (S1), and I'm wondering why there hasn't been any mainstream composers to endorse Studio One yet? It still seems that anybody who is anybody is still using Cubase, Logic, sometimes Pro Tools and sometimes DP. I feel as though it would give Presonus a huge boost to know that there are pro's that are using it. The fact that I can't think of a single one is one of the (few) things stopping me from making the switch.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 20, 2020)

dylanmixer said:


> ... I'm wondering why there hasn't been any mainstream composers to endorse Studio One yet?



Well, I guess there aren't any


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 20, 2020)

Teddy Riley used to be their "biggest" name but then he abandoned it. They've only recently fully become a comparable and competitive DAW to the big boys, so perhaps more will come on board soon. But for the big guys, in general, they don't switch DAWs that often or at all.


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## PerryD (Oct 20, 2020)

Yeah, I was dead against reverse mortgages until Tom Selleck endorsed them. It's not his first rodeo and he knows what's what!


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 20, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Teddy Riley



I read 'Terry Riley' was almost impressed!


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## kitekrazy (Oct 20, 2020)

Often people have insecurity issues with their choice of DAW because of lack of endorsements. I see this often with Reason users. People who listen to music on Spotify or Amazon don't care what DAW was used.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

Before version 4, Studio One was pretty limited in terms of MIDI editing and composer features.

This has changed with version 4 and version 5  Everything I personally always missed is there now (well, maybe some video or keyswitches features... but the rest is pretty awesome now).


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## dcoscina (Oct 20, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Teddy Riley used to be their "biggest" name but then he abandoned it. They've only recently fully become a comparable and competitive DAW to the big boys, so perhaps more will come on board soon. But for the big guys, in general, they don't switch DAWs that often or at all.


oh shit did he??? I thought he still uses it... what's he on now? Ableton?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 20, 2020)

It's marketing, guys.

Presonus obviously feels that celebrity endorsements wouldn't be effective for this product.


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## Cheezus (Oct 20, 2020)

Personally I looked into it because Cory Pelizzari endorses it and I switched because of the 3 day trial through Splice. Coming from FL Studio I love it. Friend of mine is switching from Pro Tools as well. Just try the free trial and watch some tutorials imo.


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## PuerAzaelis (Oct 20, 2020)

Does S1 have an expression maps feature?


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

PuerAzaelis said:


> Does S1 have an expression maps feature?


Expression maps is the name of the articulation management in Cubase.

Studio One 5 has its own articulation management based on keyswitches.


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## PuerAzaelis (Oct 20, 2020)

ok ty


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 20, 2020)

PuerAzaelis said:


> Does S1 have an expression maps feature?




Somehow. They have a special lane (like automation) with names for keyswitches (only notes). But they are not really separated from the 'normal' notes, if you, for example, do a 'select all notes' the keyswitches are selected too..


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## PuerAzaelis (Oct 20, 2020)

i see


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## muziksculp (Oct 20, 2020)

With a few more missing features implemented via the next update/s, I'm quite confident that you will see some well known media composers endorsing Studio One Pro 5.

I switched to Studio One from Cubase a few years ago, and never looked back, it was a wise decision.

Presonus Rocks !


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> But they are not really separated from the 'normal' notes, if you, for example, do a 'select all notes' the keyswitches are selected too..


That's correct and you can drag them around too but these keyswitches are ignored by all "musical" Actions like transpose, stretch, humanize. So these won't affect key switches.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 20, 2020)

There is some aspect of marketing of course, but there's also collaboration ability. Why does every composer (nearly) that works with Hans at Remote Control use Cubase, even if they were using something else previously? With choosing Studio One right now, you'll be a lone person on an island vs. when using Cubase or Logic, you're much more likely to be able to transfer projects around (if needed - especially if you have assistants or orchestrators). I honestly don't see this changing for Studio One for a long, long time - just look at home many people still rely on Pro Tools even though it would be considered "inferior" in many ways to other DAWs. It is the standard and likely will remain as such for some time still.


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## dcoscina (Oct 20, 2020)

I'm a nobody who's barely professional but I endorse this. LOL.

It's quite a good DAW now. Workflow is as good as Cubase but without the crashes... and hang ups... and the dongle (sorry, I still like Cubase but I loathe the e licenser.. I don't have a beef with iLok tho).


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> That's correct and you can drag them around too but these keyswitches are ignored by all "musical" Actions like transpose, stretch, humanize. So these won't affect key switches.



Yes, I know. That's why it makes no sense at all to include them in the piano roll. They are there in their somehow special red lanes and not affected by some, but not all, actions. What Presonus did was actually the worst imaginable solution. Why not lock the keyswitches in the piano roll?
Oh yeah, talking about braindead decisions: why do tools in the arranger view an the edit views have different keycommands (pencil is '5' with tracks and '3' in the piano roll editor and '2' in the score view, split tool is either '2' or '3')? Why does the order of tools change too (eraser is between knife and pencil in the arranger view and after pencil in the editor)?


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## Akarin (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Expression maps is the name of the articulation management in Cubase.
> 
> Studio One 5 has its own articulation management based on keyswitches.



Is it only keyswitch based or can it switch between MIDI channels as well? (I use a lot of that to control Kontakt and Play multis).


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Yes, I know. That's why it makes no sense at all to include them in the piano roll. They are there in their somehow special red lanes and not affected by some, but not all, actions. What Presonus did was actually the worst imaginable solution. Why not lock the keyswitches in the piano roll?


Because you need to have a way to select and move them somehow (with or without the notes). It's a pretty good solution imo.



ReleaseCandidate said:


> Oh yeah, talking about braindead decisions: why do tools in the arranger view an the edit views have different keycommands (pencil is '5' with tracks and '3' in the piano roll editor and '2' in the score view, split tool is either '2' or '3')? Why does the order of tools change too (eraser is between knife and pencil in the arranger view and after pencil in the editor)?


Yep. Indeed a weird decision  I guess nobody can deny that.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

Akarin said:


> Is it only keyswitch based or can it switch between MIDI channels as well? (I use a lot of that to control Kontakt and Play multis).


Hey Nicolas,
yes, right now it's only keyswitch based. But there are already feature requests for that because PLAY (as far as I know) does not allow to configure keyswitches, and for using Kontakt it would be helpful too to access different instruments on different MIDI channels. So I'm sure this will be added at some point (hopefully sooner than later).


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 20, 2020)

Akarin said:


> Is it only keyswitch based or can it switch between MIDI channels as well?



Notes only. You have to use some sort of MIDI effect or Kontakt script like KS Router https://www.orangetreesamples.com/blog/free-keyswitch-router-multiscript



Lukas said:


> Because you need to have a way to select and move them somehow (with or without the notes). It's a pretty good solution imo.



Yes, the problem is the editing in the automation lane.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Yes, the problem is the editing in the automation lane.


What do you mean? What's the problem?


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> What do you mean? What's the problem?



Presonus must allow (some) editing of keyswitches in the piano roll, because their automation lane hasn't got the functionality to do some things (like copy and paste/move keyswitches).


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

You can select them and copy and paste them. You only can't drag and move them. But when you select them together with notes and you move these notes, the keyswitches follow.

To be honest, I find it pretty convenient. But I agree that the keyswitches still need a couple of enhancements.


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## Sean J (Oct 20, 2020)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> What Presonus did was actually the worst imaginable solution... talking about braindead decisions



PreSonus devs aren't braindead.

I begged most developers (software & samples) for a decade, to give up Expression Maps and instead add an in-app store w/ pre-mapped samples, or at least think about UX instead. Anyone who does would realize there's only one right answer here. Most said it was lightyears away from anything in the industry, then StaffPad did exactly this. I didn't tell David Hearn. He just did it, exactly what I said. Why? Cause it makes sense to do it. When I compare that to the fact that smarter instruments (Infinite Brass, Spitfire's solo violin) don't need complex maps, it's obvious that complex mapping features are yet again... the wrong answer.

What DAW is doing it right? Technically none are.

Studio One is the closest in many ways. I've added *a feature request* to improve the notation and piano roll here, partially related to keyswitches. I've posted it on VI-Control a few times this week. It's an important need. Sure. But I still prefer S1's notation and handling of this over using Expression Maps, Articulation Sets, or half the other convoluted options out there. So is Studio One perfect? No, and for more reasons than one.

But 1) it isn't Cubase and 2) my USB key sits in a draw I never feel the need to open. 

I'll take PreSonus any day.


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## Sean J (Oct 20, 2020)

I forgot why I came here.

To the OP...

If Alan Silvestri said he likes using Cubase while sitting in a pool full of Jello to channel his writing energy, I wouldn't copy him. Just try it out.  Workflow wins hands down for most folks. It's just missing film features, though they are a few of the top-voted requests right now, so they are coming soon. They are great about adding the user voted requests and listening.


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## dcoscina (Oct 20, 2020)

So a couple quick first impressions

1. Notation- doesn't seem to like staggered notes over sustained notes. It will ignore the sustained pitch and just interpret the new notes. 

2. Retro Record- great addition but I feel it's truncating note lengths. I tried it on Cubase which seems to play back all of the notes accurately. Will continue to try this out however.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> 2. Retro Record- great addition but I feel it's truncating note lengths. I tried it on Cubase which seems to play back all of the notes accurately. Will continue to try this out however.


Can't see this here. Which notes are trancated?


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## Akarin (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Hey Nicolas,
> yes, right now it's only keyswitch based. But there are already feature requests for that because PLAY (as far as I know) does not allow to configure keyswitches, and for using Kontakt it would be helpful too to access different instruments on different MIDI channels. So I'm sure this will be added at some point (hopefully sooner than later).



Ok. Thanks for that. It's maybe a part of the answer why S1 is not that used by A-lister composers. Many have a multi-computers setup and the ability to use MIDI-channel articulation switches is part of the workflow.


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## dcoscina (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Can't see this here. Which notes are trancated?


I’m finding the releases. Like they are shorter than when played in. I need to investigate this more. I’m still ecstatic that they added this, make no mistake!


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## Sean J (Oct 20, 2020)

Akarin said:


> Ok. Thanks for that. It's maybe a part of the answer why S1 is not that used by A-lister composers. Many have a multi-computers setup and the ability to use MIDI-channel articulation switches is part of the workflow.



The biggest reason isn't features. It's that it's a young DAW. Many A-list composers have 1,000 tracks and never touch maps.

Developers left Steinberg to create Studio One, a dev manager, the creator of VST3, and I believe some non managerial devs did after this. Then PreSonus hired devs from the Pro Tools and Logic dev teams from AVID and Apple. Put that up against how old many well known composers are. Will Hans Zimmer and the best selling composer in 2040 both use the same DAW?

Geez, I hope not. 

I suspect the biggest reason why is that people tend to stay put. Another reason is that some companies don't want big names influencing them. I've seen a software developer say no to big money, based on the mentality that they should please 80% of their customer base, not their single richest customer, as that would do more to keep them in business. A developer shouldn't listen to a bigshot composer as much as the people (plural) wrestling with their program who want something better.

I'll make it big someday. I'll endorse PreSonus, and we'll call this a moot point. Problem solved.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

Sean J said:


> Then PreSonus hired devs from the Pro Tools and Logic dev teams from AVID and Apple.


Where did you get this?  PSL never hired developers from Avid and Apple.


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## CATDAD (Oct 20, 2020)

It's young, and even younger if you consider it's true "birth" to be when it gained feature parity with some other popular DAWs. Even if there were to be minor workflow improvements compared to the tools established people are already using, familiarity has a bigger impact on speed (and thus creative flow) for the most part. If you're an A-lister or studio owner, you already have an established workflow that has been proven to meet the demand of the work you have coming in, why change it when money is on the line? And when people are new to the game, the first thing they're gonna ask is "what do the pros use?" and emulate that, because well, how else are they going to decide when they don't know what they want?

Sometimes endorsements are just paid-for blurbs and/or videos from the companies themselves too, so I wouldn't take too much stock in to them. If you were comfortable with any old DAW, only with one of them a company would pay you money or give you free stuff to use? Of course you would pick that one!

If Presonus keeps going the way they have been with it so far, I'm sure you'll start to see it more often when the B and C-listers getting comfy with it now gain popularity down the line. I personally think Studio One will have no problem keeping steady in the long run, as Presonus is already making money elsewhere with hardware, so they're really in no rush to get more people on board with their software.

I feel like Bitwig is in a similar situation too. It really takes Ableton's "sound-design playground" aspect a step further. It's still missing some bits and pieces from Ableton though, and it doesn't necessarily give enough incentive to move when you already use and are comfortable with Ableton.

If you like it and it does things you need it to, use it!


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## ennbr (Oct 20, 2020)

Several good reasons why established pros have not moved over would be the time to learn a new DAW expense of recreating working templates and getting the outboard gear configured and running. Plus if there really busy schedules factor into a changing to a new DAW.


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## Sean J (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Where did you get this?  PSL never hired developers from Avid and Apple.



If you're asking me to remember a URL from sometime in 2019-2020.............? I know I read it on a site that talked about the dev, which also had referenced the original creators of S1. As they had enough 'right', I trusted what I read. If it's wrong, it's wrong.


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## jonathanwright (Oct 21, 2020)

I can't help but think it's a bit academic really. The big AAA composers also have huge teams behind them, custom samplers, sound engineers, the worlds best mixers, the world best orchestras and soundstages.

Which DAW they use, while very important to their own personal workflow (after all, workflow and enjoyment of use is what it's all about) is a tiny part of their overall 'sound'.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 21, 2020)

I like S1, but it would take an astronomic quantum leap in the realm of DAWs to make me switch from Cubase to something else. There's just no way I'm re-learning everything from scratch unless it's something that made my life 7000% better (which it won't).

Now considering that AAA type guys have tons of shit going on and are most probably in the middle of something anyways, and they have all these other people connected to the process, they'd be crazy to switch DAWs. I wouldn't put much stock into who uses which DAW and how many celebrities approve of my personal choices.


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## samphony (Oct 21, 2020)

Akarin said:


> Ok. Thanks for that. It's maybe a part of the answer why S1 is not that used by A-lister composers. Many have a multi-computers setup and the ability to use MIDI-channel articulation switches is part of the workflow.


Sorry to say that but a lot of so called whatever ABC List Composers still use one artic per track too. Add your voice to the S1 feature requests and see these features get implemented once the time is right.


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## Akarin (Oct 21, 2020)

samphony said:


> Sorry to say that but a lot of so called whatever ABC List Composers still use one artic per track too. Add your voice to the S1 feature requests and see these features get implemented once the time is right.



About 3 years ago, I added my "voice" to request compatibility with Komplete Kontrol hardware. Still not there although it's quite a popular hardware (and a huge part of my workflow). I really like the S1 UI but so far, it wouldn't allow me to work faster, it's the opposite. One day, maybe 😊


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## GtrString (Oct 21, 2020)

Political correctness. Studio One is too easy to create music in. Everyone wants to look like they are struggling, to position themselves as deserving the privilege.

I see Studio One as a user friendly take on Pro Tools.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 21, 2020)

I know several “name” composers who use other DAWs who have taken it for a spin and all have said that while there is much they like about it, it’s not quite “there” yet.


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 21, 2020)

I had an issue wth Presonus over a Studio One 3 upgrade a fair few years ago, and I thought I was going to end up out of pocket over something that should not have happened. (Not something I did I must add).

Presonus pleasantly surprised me with a generous resolution - something they didn't have to do, and ever since then I have always felt well disposed to them as a company. Their respsonse was above and beyond what anyone could have resonably expected.

But until v5, it seemed that Studio One was aiming for a different market from what I do - which is pretty much orchestral only. The first steps towards an articulation system are very welcome indeed, even if it is fairly basic.

But I'm now esconced in Cubase Land, but I'll always keep and upgrade my Studio One licence - I think they are a class operation who deserve to be supported. The level of support they offer is almost embarassingly good when you compare it to the black hole that is Steinberg support.....


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## Sean J (Oct 21, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I know several “name” composers who use other DAWs who have taken it for a spin and all have said that while there is much they like about it, it’s not quite “there” yet.



If it's "close" for someone, it's worth being ambidextrous and knowing it well, even if it means getting over limitations, especially as PreSonus has a great reputation for listening and especially as we mere humans have a tendency to dismiss things too quickly.

I write *MUCH* faster in StaffPad than any DAW. The only reason I'm fast with it is because I eventually willed myself to say "screw this... I want to know this program even if I have to get over this handwriting learning curve". I resisted the pen, but it only took one song to get comfortable. Now... I'm flying with it. Had I thrown in the towel at any point during that song (and I wanted to more than once) over what I thought was a limitation upfront, I'd have not realized how amazing the app is. The truth is, a "P" with a short stem looks a lot like a whole note. It can't recognize stupid or lazy. It does take some effort, just not nearly as much as it seems during the first week. I've learned new things in DAWs over years, so a week to know StaffPad in its entirety was well worth it.

There's just something about the "not quite there yet" mentality that often has an "unwilling" subtext with it. Cubase and Pro Tools are not quite "there" yet in a LOT of ways, and not just UI and workflow. I'm not accusing everyone of being an idiot. Just saying our default human instincts aren't always reliable. In fact, they can can be quite counterintuitive at times.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 21, 2020)

Sean J said:


> If it's "close" for someone, it's worth being ambidextrous and knowing it well, even if it means getting over limitations, especially as PreSonus has a great reputation for listening and especially as we mere humans have a tendency to dismiss things too quickly.
> 
> I write *MUCH* faster in StaffPad than any DAW. The only reason I'm fast with it is because I eventually willed myself to say "screw this... I want to know this program even if I have to get over this handwriting learning curve". I resisted the pen, but it only took one song to get comfortable. Now... I'm flying with it. Had I thrown in the towel at any point during that song (and I wanted to more than once) over what I thought was a limitation upfront, I'd have not realized how amazing the app is. The truth is, a "P" with a short stem looks a lot like a whole note. It can't recognize stupid or lazy. It does take some effort, just not nearly as much as it seems during the first week. I've learned new things in DAWs over years, so a week to know StaffPad in its entirety was well worth it.
> 
> There's just something about the "not quite there yet" mentality that often has an "unwilling" subtext with it. Cubase and Pro Tools are not quite "there" yet in a LOT of ways, and not just UI and workflow. I'm not accusing everyone of being an idiot. Just saying our default human instincts aren't always reliable. In fact, they can can be quite counterintuitive at times.




I am not the workflow police and I make no judgment on it, just reporting what has been related to me.


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## easyrider (Oct 21, 2020)

Life is what happens to you while you’re busy trying other DAWs..


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## Al Maurice (Oct 21, 2020)

When it comes to tools what matters most to many stakeholders, is what the majority of the talent pool is using. And perhaps Studio One isn't quite at that stage yet. Who knows down the line, with all the latest features coming through it may well be considered in the mix.


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## Trash Panda (Oct 21, 2020)

I’ve been eyeing Studio One lately.

As a Reaper user who typically programs in MIDI by hand in the piano roll or notation view, what does Studio One offer that could make workflows more efficient?


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## easyrider (Oct 21, 2020)

The Serinator said:


> I’ve been eyeing Studio One lately.
> 
> As a Reaper user who typically programs in MIDI by hand in the piano roll or notation view, what does Studio One offer that could make workflows more efficient?



Try the Demo of S1....


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## dylanmixer (Oct 21, 2020)

Didn't intend to turn this in to "if Hans Zimmer told you to jump off a cliff, would you?" kind of thing. What I more meant is that if S1 is as good as people say it was, I feel that you would see more pros using it. And I wanted to spark up conversation as to why that is. It seems that the consensus is that it's simply too new, which is the most likely case.

Admittedly, it does make me feel better that many pro composers choose Cubase. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. Switching DAWs does take time, money, and effort learning the ropes. So it's an investment in more ways than one. As S1 gets better and better, and even surpasses Cubase in a few areas, I'll be wondering if it's time to make the move. Especially if Steinberg s**ts the bed on Cubase 11.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 21, 2020)

dylanmixer said:


> Didn't intend to turn this in to "if Hans Zimmer told you to jump off a cliff, would you?" kind of thing.



Now you tell me. It would've been nice to have avoided all these bruises.


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## easyrider (Oct 21, 2020)

dylanmixer said:


> Didn't intend to turn this in to "if Hans Zimmer told you to jump off a cliff, would you?" kind of thing. What I more meant is that if S1 is as good as people say it was, I feel that you would see more pros using it. And I wanted to spark up conversation as to why that is. It seems that the consensus is that it's simply too new, which is the most likely case.
> 
> Admittedly, it does make me feel better that many pro composers choose Cubase. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. Switching DAWs does take time, money, and effort learning the ropes. So it's an investment in more ways than one. As S1 gets better and better, and even surpasses Cubase in a few areas, I'll be wondering if it's time to make the move. Especially if Steinberg s**ts the bed on Cubase 11.



I have pro tools, cubase and S1

S1 beats them all....


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## jonathanwright (Oct 21, 2020)

dylanmixer said:


> Didn't intend to turn this in to "if Hans Zimmer told you to jump off a cliff, would you?" kind of thing. What I more meant is that if S1 is as good as people say it was, I feel that you would see more pros using it. And I wanted to spark up conversation as to why that is. It seems that the consensus is that it's simply too new, which is the most likely case.
> 
> Admittedly, it does make me feel better that many pro composers choose Cubase. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. Switching DAWs does take time, money, and effort learning the ropes. So it's an investment in more ways than one. As S1 gets better and better, and even surpasses Cubase in a few areas, I'll be wondering if it's time to make the move. Especially if Steinberg s**ts the bed on Cubase 11.



It’s also worth noting that many of the pro’s started using their preferred DAW decades ago, when feature sets were far less than where Studio One is at now. It clearly didn’t affect their careers.

I’ve absolutely no doubt whatsoever that within a few years we’ll be seeing ‘pro’s’ using S1 who are using it right now, and growing with it. 

It’s a logical progression.


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## dylanmixer (Oct 21, 2020)

jonathanwright said:


> It’s also worth noting that many of the pro’s started using their preferred DAW decades ago, when feature sets were far less than where Studio One is at now. It clearly didn’t affect their careers.
> 
> I’ve absolutely no doubt whatsoever that within a few years we’ll be seeing ‘pro’s’ using S1 who are using it right now, and growing with it.
> 
> It’s a logical progression.



Fair point! Maybe WE are the future "pros" who will eventually standardize it? 😉


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## chapbot (Oct 21, 2020)

I know pros in LA who still use ProTools and hate every second of it, but still use it because... everybody is using it. Some PT diehards can't take it anymore and are switching to Logic. When I show them what Studio One can do, they are shocked/baffled/amazed but still won't switch because... well... because...


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## Sean J (Oct 21, 2020)

chapbot said:


> I know pros in LA who still use ProTools and hate every second of it, but still use it because... everybody is using it. Some PT diehards can't take it anymore and are switching to Logic. When I show them what Studio One can do, they are shocked/baffled/amazed but still won't switch because... well... because...



Reminds me of a girl who refused for years to read a book _only_ because it was gaining popularity.

The book was Harry Potter. Her choice, but I enjoyed them. Not as much as Fablehaven, still. StaffPad & S1 win for me. Steinberg isn't a bad choice. The original Nintendo wasn't a bad choice either. Doesn't mean it doesn't get outdated by other people doing better work. Even Dorico has improved on features Cubase has stagnated on. Not bad choices. I just think S1 is much more futuristic and modern, future-proof in usefulness, etc.

I keep wanting to look away from this thread, but people keep giving me opportunities to say how great Studio One is. Have I mentioned it's great?


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## easyrider (Oct 21, 2020)

Sean J said:


> Have I mentioned it's great?



S1 really is....I’m in contact with support right now for an issue I can replicate....they emailed tonight asking if I would be so kind to do a video so they can pass it on to the engineers to fix in the next update....this is a two way synergy between developer and customer in perfect harmony.....pretty beautiful stuff....


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## Trash Panda (Oct 21, 2020)

Akarin said:


> About 3 years ago, I added my "voice" to request compatibility with Komplete Kontrol hardware. Still not there although it's quite a popular hardware (and a huge part of my workflow). I really like the S1 UI but so far, it wouldn't allow me to work faster, it's the opposite. One day, maybe 😊


Perhaps you should have them speak to Bob. He's very persuasive.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 21, 2020)

chapbot said:


> I know pros in LA who still use ProTools and hate every second of it, but still use it because... everybody is using it. Some PT diehards can't take it anymore and are switching to Logic. When I show them what Studio One can do, they are shocked/baffled/amazed but still won't switch because... well... because...


That's because switching to another working environment requires lots of mental energy - you have to evaluate gains and loses first(eg if switching to a particular DAW worth it to change your habits and to abandon already burnt into brain knowledge of your present DAW). For a pro it's a very time and energy consuming process - you literally have to make lists of things you do in a program and how you do them; then you have to try it in considerable option(s). Then you can get approximate evaluation of potentially new workflow and make at least half of the decision(will you drop the idea of switching to this DAW; will you keep working on your present DAW, but use the new one from time to time until you can make a final decision; you're convinced and ready to switch). After this you'll face one problem(even if you decided to switch now) - certain instruments and techniques you used in previous daw and how to get them in a new one - can you replace it with the new toolset or maybe some of those I's and T's not that important and you can achieve the same or better results with provided toolset instead of trying to replicate what you were doing so far in the previous host. And finally you'll have to repeat the process of burning control of the daw into your brain(which includes reading manual, watching since videos, trying things out, learning/assinging hot keys and so on).

I described this switching event in a very-very broad and generalized way, but you can see that this is a complex process. This is very rare when people over 50 are willing to get through all of that again. If should be something revolutionary to make the switch a no-brainer. This is one of the reasons why we shouldn't focus on the "old squad"(no offense, besides we all gonna be there sooner or later😉).. 

Finally, everyone I know, who switched to S1, put the main emphasize on streamline workflow of S1. That was the reason I switched, too. I myself think that gains in comfort and speed is much more than that time I spent on all the mentioned activities.


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## dcoscina (Oct 21, 2020)

@Faruh Al-Baghdadi i am over 50 and have switched to S1 and I write largely orchestral music. I also adopted Staffpad this year as my main compositional tool. I have no problem adapting to new tech. The only exception is Ableton. That thing is just not up my alley for the kind of music I write. 
S1 is great because I can save presets, build my own KS, use the single pane to move around and avoid multiple windows... I love it. And the notation editor is great!


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 21, 2020)

I don't know what endorsements would mean for people since using the same gear and software doesn't mean you get the same results. From my experience, most songwriters I know use either cubase or studio one. I have mix engineers who use studio one instead of pro tools. I know another engineer who just switched from pro tools to Studio One last month for live performances when studio one added the Show Page.

All the professionals I know who use it, love it. My own team of international producers and writers have all gathered around studio one since sphere dropped because even before sphere, project sharing was insanely easy on studio one. For me, once they add a better video player, there won't be much more I really desperately need. Still, even with what's there, I worked a film score remotely with no problems on studio one 4.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 22, 2020)

dylanmixer said:


> Fair point! Maybe WE are the future "pros" who will eventually standardize it? 😉




I hope we never have standardized DAWS ever again. I can't stand how Pro Tools has taken that position and forces people to use it even when its lagging behind certain features in other DAWs. What I'd rather see is a standardized file format like AAF, but better, that allows us to share projects between DAWs with little functionality lost. That way we could all keep the DAWs we like, but never have to force others to use the same just in order to work together.


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## ThomasL (Oct 22, 2020)

Switched from several years of Logic use to Studio One a few years back. Mainly because of the integration with Softube Console 1. Anyhow, at first I didn't think it was "there" either but after a while I understood that it was me that wasn't "there".

Habits die hard. They die (or rather change) faster if you're willing to let go and you have a mindset that allows you to do so.

Haven't regretted the switch a single second. The "bugfix" they did a few versions back that made it possible to export stems/tracks in the correct way for Pro Tools users was great, works every time


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## Lukas (Oct 22, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> For me, once they add a better video player, there won't be much more I really desperately need. Still, even with what's there, I worked a film score remotely with no problems on studio one 4.


+1


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## samphony (Oct 23, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> I don't know what endorsements would mean for people since using the same gear and software doesn't mean you get the same results. From my experience, most songwriters I know use either cubase or studio one. I have mix engineers who use studio one instead of pro tools. I know another engineer who just switched from pro tools to Studio One last month for live performances when studio one added the Show Page.
> 
> All the professionals I know who use it, love it. My own team of international producers and writers have all gathered around studio one since sphere dropped because even before sphere, project sharing was insanely easy on studio one. For me, once they add a better video player, there won't be much more I really desperately need. Still, even with what's there, I worked a film score remotely with no problems on studio one 4.


I have some feature requests i would love to see fulfilled in the 5 cycle. Set sync point/anchor in audio events, multiple videos&video thumbnail tracks, a global range selection workflow similar to pro tools. But still what Studio One has grown to is just inspiring and intuitive. #loveit


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## Ashermusic (Oct 23, 2020)

ThomasL said:


> Switched from several years of Logic use to Studio One a few years back. Mainly because of the integration with Softube Console 1. Anyhow, at first I didn't think it was "there" either but after a while I understood that it was me that wasn't "there".
> 
> Habits die hard. They die (or rather change) faster if you're willing to let go and you have a mindset that allows you to do so.
> 
> Haven't regretted the switch a single second. The "bugfix" they did a few versions back that made it possible to export stems/tracks in the correct way for Pro Tools users was great, works every time



While there is much I like, I would not give up having Logic's Smart Tempo, Quick Sampler, and Drummer, all fairly recent additions. The new Step Sequencer and Live Loops are a big deal for some, not for me.


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## samphony (Oct 23, 2020)

Same with me why giving up something you like. But for me i use what inspires. Meaning creating stuff in logic and bringing it into Studio One is a daily routine since 2010 sometimes even Studio One to Logic or both side by side but i must say i prefer the audio editing and arranger track and scratch pad workflow in studio one. Anyways as with instruments I feel there is no need to switch use all of the ones you like. It is just a matter of workflow and creativity.
I know a lot of people especially here still believe one day one daw will rule them all but I believe workarounds and flexibility can empower creativity!


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## Ashermusic (Oct 23, 2020)

samphony said:


> Same with me why giving up something you like. But for me i use what inspires. Meaning creating stuff in logic and bringing it into Studio One is a daily routine since 2010 sometimes even Studio One to Logic or both side by side but i must say i prefer the audio editing and arranger track and scratch pad workflow in studio one. Anyways as with instruments I feel there is no need to switch use all of the ones you like. It is just a matter of workflow and creativity.
> I know a lot of people especially here still believe one day one daw will rule them all but I believe workarounds and flexibility can empower creativity!



That's actually very cool, but I fear that at my advanced age going back and forth would have me using two inefficiently


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 24, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> While there is much I like, I would not give up having Logic's Smart Tempo, Quick Sampler, and Drummer, all fairly recent additions. The new Step Sequencer and Live Loops are a big deal for some, not for me.



some things are just vital to a person's workflow. I haven't tried logic recently to know how different the quick sample is compared to studio one's SampleOne. Quick Tempo sounds like a great feature, but I've done the same using melodyne's tempo map function in studio one to do the same. Drummer is the only thing I know studio one doesn't have an equivalent for but having more than enough drum software that's something I'll have to try to see if its more useful.


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## Babe (Oct 24, 2020)

The Serinator said:


> I’ve been eyeing Studio One lately.
> 
> As a Reaper user who typically programs in MIDI by hand in the piano roll or notation view, what does Studio One offer that could make workflows more efficient?


I too am I draw it in midi guy. I've used Cubase, Logic, and demoed Reaper several times. IMO, S1 is far superior to Reaper for drawing in midi. Setting up tracks and using automation is sooooo much easier. I am disappointed in the score editor in S1 however. I use it mainly to check my to make sure I entered the right notes in the piano roll. I haven't figured out how to change the pitch by a 1/2 step. But you can't beat Reaper's price and upgrade policy.


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## Lukas (Oct 24, 2020)

Babe said:


> I haven't figured out how to change the pitch by a 1/2 step.


With the arrow keys (and maybe a modifier... shift or alt/option).


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 24, 2020)

Babe said:


> I too am I draw it in midi guy. I've used Cubase, Logic, and demoed Reaper several times. IMO, S1 is far superior to Reaper for drawing in midi. Setting up tracks and using automation is sooooo much easier. I am disappointed in the score editor in S1 however. I use it mainly to check my to make sure I entered the right notes in the piano roll. I haven't figured out how to change the pitch by a 1/2 step. But you can't beat Reaper's price and upgrade policy.



FYI, Studio One has a ton of great macros for the draw-it-in types. there are actually two macropages on exchange that can automate most of the editing process between quantise, not length, transpose, automated chords and inversions.


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## Daidy (Oct 25, 2020)

Akarin said:


> About 3 years ago, I added my "voice" to request compatibility with Komplete Kontrol hardware. Still not there although it's quite a popular hardware (and a huge part of my workflow). I really like the S1 UI but so far, it wouldn't allow me to work faster, it's the opposite. One day, maybe 😊


Are you looking for something specific ? Because there is already a good integration with Komplete Kontrol : https://blog.presonus.com/index.php/2020/01/17/komplete-kontrol-integration-studio-one-part-13/


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## Trensharo (Oct 28, 2020)

Cakewalk added Articulation Maps and can import Cubase Expression Maps. I think that was the smartest implementation of this in a non-Cubase or Logic Pro X DAW, yet.

People are just going to Steinberg or VSL websites and the expression Maps are importing and working 100% out of the box.

I actually went Cubase over Studio One because I don't like the UI. Its a bit too flat, and it feels like ACID Pro to me. I have to enjoy working in a DAW, otherwise its going to mess with my motivation.

Apart from that, Cubase has stronger facilities for working with Audio, and 25% of my business involes a ton of audio editing.

I think people underrate how much of an impact switching DAW platforms can have on one's productivity. Some people have hardware that works optimally with specific DAWs, as well. For many, it simply isn't worth the effort. Professionals at the upper end of the market aren't really into fan wars.


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## madfloyd (Oct 28, 2020)

I use Studio One and save for a year when I decided that I needed to try Cubase, I've been with it since its infancy. 

Before Studio One existed I used Cakewalk. 

I haven't been able to learn Cubase. Everything seems hidden and after a year of stumbling and not producing anything, I gave up. 

Then Studio One added articulations and I rejoiced. It needs to be improved but I'm so happy that it's there.

I do wish Studio One looked better. I love the crispness of the Cubase UI (fonts etc) whereas Studio One feels a little blurry (I'm in my late 50s) but the workflow is just so simple and intuitive for me.


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## Lukas (Oct 28, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> FYI, Studio One has a ton of great macros for the draw-it-in types


Thanks 



madfloyd said:


> Then Studio One added articulations and I rejoiced. It needs to be improved but I'm so happy that it's there.


Definitely needs some enhancements. It's straightforward and easy to use but needs more flexibility. More features  I'm sure it's coming.


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## DS_Joost (Oct 28, 2020)

dylanmixer said:


> Fair point! Maybe WE are the future "pros" who will eventually standardize it? 😉



Indeed, that's exactly what we are. These things take time my young padawan...


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 10, 2021)

It is only because it is newer. Professional composerws have been using say Cubase and logic or others from very very long. They have an understanding with those and it is not comfortable to switch to a newer. They are used to those. I can tell you, newer composeres, young ones, they are using it


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## Trensharo (Jan 14, 2021)

It's like a decade old. Being new is not the reason.


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## JashandeepReehal (Jan 14, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> It's like a decade old. Being new is not the reason.


It is. Do you know how old is cubase and DP and others that the big guys use. They are there since the beginning. They have been using those since they started. Compared to them, studio One is far far newer. And big pros don't like changing softwares a lot.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Jan 17, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> It's like a decade old. Being new is not the reason.


Cubase and Digital Perform are more than 30 years old DAWs. And this is just half of the point.
The second half is WHEN those first 10-15 years happened - when there was nothing. Nobody had any software products even remotely close to DP and Cubase.
Time was moving on and those two decided that they don't need any serious spendings as people will buy their stuff anyway(because to produce serious update that will bring your software ammm... UP to DATE, in their case you have to spend a lot of money, really a loooot; in the same time people didn't have much options).


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## antames (Jan 17, 2021)

I agree - People who don't have time won't have time to learn a new DAW and will stick to what they know.

Can vouch for Studio One though. It's a ripper of a DAW and the macros just make it so much better and quicker to use once it is all set up.

I can use my middle mouse button to do horizontal/vertical scrolling too; although it's not inbuilt into the DAW, you just need to install a small 3rd party program to get it to work which just runs in the background forever.


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## Snarf (Jan 17, 2021)

antames said:


> I can use my middle mouse button to do horizontal/vertical scrolling too; although it's not inbuilt into the DAW, you just need to install a small 3rd party program to get it to work which just runs in the background forever.



Can you elaborate on this? One thing I miss from other DAWS is the free/omnidirectional scrolling with the scrollwheel so that sounds interesting!


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## antames (Jan 17, 2021)

Snarf said:


> Can you elaborate on this? One thing I miss from other DAWS is the free/omnidirectional scrolling with the scrollwheel so that sounds interesting!


Absolutely, I'll find you the link when I am at home and will let you know.


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## antames (Jan 17, 2021)

Snarf said:


> Can you elaborate on this? One thing I miss from other DAWS is the free/omnidirectional scrolling with the scrollwheel so that sounds interesting!


Here you go:









Releases · lokanchung/StudioPlusOne


Contribute to lokanchung/StudioPlusOne development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com





Download the sp1.exe file, run it, and adjust the sensitivity settings to your taste by right clicking on it in the taskbar. Make sure you set it to "Run on startup" too so it always runs.


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## Rctec (Jan 17, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> There is some aspect of marketing of course, but there's also collaboration ability. Why does every composer (nearly) that works with Hans at Remote Control use Cubase, even if they were using something else previously? With choosing Studio One right now, you'll be a lone person on an island vs. when using Cubase or Logic, you're much more likely to be able to transfer projects around (if needed - especially if you have assistants or orchestrators). I honestly don't see this changing for Studio One for a long, long time - just look at home many people still rely on Pro Tools even though it would be considered "inferior" in many ways to other DAWs. It is the standard and likely will remain as such for some time still.


I don’t care what anyone uses. But most of us use Cubase or Logic...and even the one or two DP leftovers have switched to Cubase. 
but we have to use ProTools for mixing and recording.it helps having industry-wide standards. And seriously - it’s not bad at all.
But you use what you’re comfortable with, what has the right ‘personality’ for you (after all, when you buy a program, you’re buying into the philosophy and vision of its creator), and what fulfills your requirements. And then sit down and learn the living daylights out of it, until it’s absolutely second nature to you, until you really, really Know it...


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 18, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Cubase and Digital Perform are more than 30 years old DAWs. And this is just half of the point.
> The second half is WHEN those first 10-15 years happened - when there was nothing. Nobody had any software products even remotely close to DP and Cubase.


With 'nothing' you surely mean more MIDI sequencers for more platforms than today. On the C64, Atari ST (that had a MIDI port, you didn't need anything else!), the Macs of that time and some other computers I forgot about there were an abundance of MIDI sequencers. And later, for the people that couldn't afford MIDI gear there came the trackers.
And with 'no software remotely close to Cubase and DP' you certainly mean Logic (Notator), that was _the_ sequencer back than. 

Just some history:
Logic: Atari ST, 1987?
http://atari-music.fddvoron.name/notator.htmCubase: Atari ST, 1987?
http://atari-music.fddvoron.name/cubase.htmCakewalk: MS DOS, 1987
DP: Mac, 1985
Samplitude: Amiga, 1992, Samples, no MIDI


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## Saxer (Jan 18, 2021)

There is another aspect why switching DAWs is hard, at least for long time users like me. As a Logic user I have tons of presets inside Logic for daily use. I have channel strip presets for singers I regularly work with, I have my template pool, my samples in Logic's Sampler format, my screen sets, my input filters, my key commands, my folder structure, the score settings, the approved workarounds... and I can import things from older songs. When I need a sampled chug guitar sound double tracked left/right with tempo synched delay and different amp settings for left/right I know in what folder I have to look for that and it's there in a minute. Same for Big Band, strings, whatever...

If all the previous DAW work wouldn't be there I'd probably think about switching to S1. They have done a lot of things right and are in their prime of life with this project. Their users will grow to pros with it.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Jan 18, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> With 'nothing' you surely mean more MIDI sequencers for more platforms than today. On the C64, Atari ST (that had a MIDI port, you didn't need anything else!), the Macs of that time and some other computers I forgot about there were an abundance of MIDI sequencers. And later, for the people that couldn't afford MIDI gear there came the trackers.
> And with 'no software remotely close to Cubase and DP' you certainly mean Logic (Notator), that was _the_ sequencer back than.
> 
> Just some history:
> ...


Nah, by nothing I meant nothing. Logic wasn't as sophisticated as Cubase and Digital Performer(especially DP), so as the rest of them. Also, at the moment Cubase and DP development had some kind of dedication for further development instead of being treated as a weird experiment, the one that PreSonus had these days(for now, at least).


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 18, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Nah, by nothing I meant nothing. Logic wasn't as sophisticated as Cubase and Digital Performer(especially DP), so as the rest of them.


You really should say what time frame you are talking about. As I said, that's not even remotely true for the first decade, the 80's (let's make that 83-93, MIDI didn't exist before that


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Jan 18, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> You really should say what time frame you are talking about. As I said, that's not even remotely true for the first decade, the 80's (let's make that 83-93, MIDI didn't exist before that


I didn't took into account 80s because it is pointless. It was time of experiments and workarounds in this regard. DAW began to truly establish themselves as... everyday Work Stations in late 80s(very late) - early 90s. 
Anyway, even if take those early years into account, it won't change the point - it is muuuuuch harder to gain serious user base among professionals these days for DAW developers due to industrial inertia. People didn't have their entire workflow built over and upon certain DAW as there wasn't any before. 

So, now you have people who worked in those early products for decades, spent 1000s of hrs building their workflow and habits. This is what makes a switch so hard for grown pros.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 18, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> I didn't took into account 80s because it is pointless


Maybe you shouldn't have written about the first 10-15 years, but about the decade of '95 - 2005 (the time of Mac vs. X86, the post-Atari and Amiga and... era). 
The rest you wrote is ok.


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## alexkrisandre78 (Jan 18, 2021)

antames said:


> I agree - People who don't have time won't have time to learn a new DAW and will stick to what they know.
> 
> Can vouch for Studio One though. It's a ripper of a DAW and the macros just make it so much better and quicker to use once it is all set up.
> 
> I can use my middle mouse button to do horizontal/vertical scrolling too; although it's not inbuilt into the DAW, you just need to install a small 3rd party program to get it to work which just runs in the background forever.


I do this in Logic and its a native feature. Its is one reasons why I stuck with Logic because I couldn't get any of the other DAW to do it. While we are on the subject of DAW's, I LOVE Reason and used to use it so much, I would rewire it into Cubase (Cubase 4) when I needed to score to picture.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Jan 18, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Maybe you shouldn't have written about the first 10-15 years, but about the decade of '95 - 2005 (the time of Mac vs. X86, the post-Atari and Amiga and... era).
> The rest you wrote is ok.


Maybe, or maybe not. Who knows? I do. But not gonna tell you. 😺


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## dcoscina (Jan 18, 2021)

I love Studio One. I've pretty much moved to it these days because of the workflow and customization. I love being able to save patches from various libraries, especially the ones like Xpand or ones that don't have a Favourites tag. 

The notation editor is the cleanest I've seen. Yeah, it's not Dorico or Finale but neither are other DAW-based notation sections. 

I don't really care who uses Studio One and who doesn't. Lots of composers are able to write orchestral music in Logic. I cannot. It just doesn't work with my habits. Whereas Cubase or Studio One, yes. It's all a matter of what works for the individual. And I'm really jazzed about Studio One's transparent GUI which gets out of the way and lets me get my ideas down quickly and directly.

There... that's my endorsement from a nobody from Canada.


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## Trensharo (Jan 20, 2021)

A 20-something in 2021 isn't going to GAF that Cubase is 20 years older than Studio One. Only old people care about how old a DAW is, when they're all over a decade old at this point. The people coming into the market - the most ripe user base for the picking - will not care about this stuff, generally speaking.

That is hardly holding Studio One back.

What the developers chose to focus on in those 10 years is a bigger factor than how old it is. Cubase and DP biased their development to those markets, the same way FL Studio, Ableton, and Pro Tools biased their development towards the markets they predominate. Studio One is riding the fence, and this has drawbacks.

The capabilities of a DAW and how it relates to users' requirements determine how many people will use it, not its relative age. SONAR was 25+ years old, and look where that got it. Its development tract hurt it far more than its age compared to other DAWs.


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 20, 2021)

I imagine this all comes down to the ecosystem now. It’s not like any daw is the legacy daw anymore for up and coming creators. People have options and endorsements don’t mean as much when you have such variety outside of the legacy daws of the past.

I imagine new creators end up in logic because they’re Mac users, or some end up in reaper because it was available when they had no money. Maybe FL studio because they saw other beatmakers using it and found tutorials to help them navigate it. For the rest of us, DAWs are about workflow and most DAWs do everything you need, but it just comes down to if they do it in a way that fits you. Who can go out and really say that studio one is a new industry leader with features no other daw could touch? Pro tools and cubase may keep beating that old drum but it’s false.

All I know is, my whole team uses studio one. My associates use it in the studio, at home and on tour since show page came out. It works well, and my colleagues happily using it are the only endorsements that matter to my workflow.


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## pinki (Jan 20, 2021)

chocobitz825 said:


> I imagine this all comes down to the ecosystem now. It’s not like any daw is the legacy daw anymore for up and coming creators. People have options and endorsements don’t mean as much when you have such variety outside of the legacy daws of the past.
> 
> I imagine new creators end up in logic because they’re Mac users, or some end up in reaper because it was available when they had no money. Maybe FL studio because they saw other beatmakers using it and found tutorials to help them navigate it. For the rest of us, DAWs are about workflow and most DAWs do everything you need, but it just comes down to if they do it in a way that fits you. Who can go out and really say that studio one is a new industry leader with features no other daw could touch? Pro tools and cubase may keep beating that old drum but it’s false.
> 
> All I know is, my whole team uses studio one. My associates use it in the studio, at home and on tour since show page came out. It works well, and my colleagues happily using it are the only endorsements that matter to my workflow.


I think you are spot on in everything you say here. 

And Studio One is the perfect sweet spot. A truly balanced DAW.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 21, 2021)

The DAW with the most users nowadays is Live. Not at least because you get the free version with almost any hardware you buy. More than a decade ago you got Cubase with everything and included in mags (that's something like a thin book of mostly ads, for the youth of today).
Second is Logic and/or FL.


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## Ozinga (Jan 21, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> The DAW with the most users nowadays is Live. Not at least because you get the free version with almost any hardware you buy. More than a decade ago you got Cubase with everything and included in mags (that's something like a thin book of mostly ads, for the youth of today).
> Second is Logic and/or FL.


Ableton has the best brand management. Both for marketing and protecting the identity of Live.


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 21, 2021)

Ozinga said:


> Ableton has the best brand management. Both for marketing and protecting the identity of Live.


Ableton branded itself well as the daw for a certain type of creator. Aimed less at general music creation and instead aimed specifically at the performing types. If anything it’s always felt like the reverse of what most daws are doing. Most are recording tools you can use live too, but ableton seemed to be a live tool that you could create on as well.

still what does it matter now? All the daws are copying each other’s features and blurring the lines. I don’t need ableton when I have show page in studio one.


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## Crossroads (Jan 21, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> The DAW with the most users nowadays is Live. Not at least because you get the free version with almost any hardware you buy. More than a decade ago you got Cubase with everything and included in mags (that's something like a thin book of mostly ads, for the youth of today).
> Second is Logic and/or FL.


And let's not forget it's easily crackable. This is the reason also that so many people start out on either it or FL Studio. Heck, it's the reason I started out on Reason and it's now one of my main DAWs!

Unrelated maybe but I don't think piracy is bad to an extent. Too much copy protection can be super anti-consumer. I also think that, those people who don't pay for music software would never have been costumers in the first place.

Might be controversial, but I do believe piracy can actually lead to sales. I believe lots of the sales of Ableton and FL Studio are coming from that, from bedroom producers in their teens trying out if making music is something for them, and then, when deciding it's what they like, actually forking out for said software. I think the only way to combat this is to be much more generous with demo versions (90 days like Ableton now does for example).


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## Tren (Jan 25, 2021)

chocobitz825 said:


> Ableton branded itself well as the daw for a certain type of creator. Aimed less at general music creation and instead aimed specifically at the performing types. If anything it’s always felt like the reverse of what most daws are doing. Most are recording tools you can use live too, but ableton seemed to be a live tool that you could create on as well.
> 
> still what does it matter now? All the daws are copying each other’s features and blurring the lines. *I don’t need ableton when I have show page in studio one.*


Lol.


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 25, 2021)

Tren said:


> Bless your heart, for thinking the Show Page makes Studio One a replacement for Ableton Live.
> 
> Truly.


not a replacement, but an alternative. My team jumped on it, and love it for their purposes. Given the market that Ableton is aimed at, Show Page gave a more simplified alternative for live performance options.


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## Ozinga (Jan 26, 2021)

chocobitz825 said:


> Ableton branded itself well as the daw for a certain type of creator. Aimed less at general music creation and instead aimed specifically at the performing types. If anything it’s always felt like the reverse of what most daws are doing. Most are recording tools you can use live too, but ableton seemed to be a live tool that you could create on as well.
> 
> still what does it matter now? All the daws are copying each other’s features and blurring the lines. I don’t need ableton when I have show page in studio one.


Who said you need Ableton Live? Or where did I praise its features and said every other DAW should be like it?
I just mentioned their brand management. 

If anything, you wrote what I observed about Ableton in more detail than me. So thank you


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 26, 2021)

Ozinga said:


> Who said you need Ableton Live? Or where did I praise its features and said every other DAW should be like it?
> I just mentioned their brand management.
> 
> If anything, you wrote what I observed about Ableton in more detail than me. So thank you


Lol the internet must make me sound way more aggressive than I am. I was agreeing. Ableton was very precise with branding indeed.

I have to wonder if that sort of branding would even work with studio one. What professional endorsements would court new users without isolating others?

it feels like studio one is satisfied with its image of being a daw for anyone. It does many things very well without being so specific that it can’t handle the needs of most creators and engineers. The “master of none” image might be why it doesn’t quite satisfy very hardcore electronic creators or composers who want very specific features aimed directly at them.


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## Tren (Jan 27, 2021)

chocobitz825 said:


> not a replacement, but an alternative. My team jumped on it, and love it for their purposes. Given the market that Ableton is aimed at, Show Page gave a more simplified alternative for live performance options.


An alternative if your specific use case falls within the bounds of its limitations comparative to Ableton Live.

Pretty much the same could be said of Logic Pro X, DP, Mixcraft, even Cakewalk by BandLab.

Yet, there Live is... still de facto.


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## greggybud (Jan 27, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> The DAW with the most users nowadays is Live.


Interesting.

Would you care to provide a source for this? Last I checked, no major DAW developer manifests anything close to "most users nowadays is Live." Some do a lot of marketing research aimed at target demographics, but it's expensive, and the results is private to my knowledge.

I have seen a lot of polls, but IMO, they are always skewed or biased.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 28, 2021)

greggybud said:


> Would you care to provide a source for this?


General consensus on the internet and real life experience. Live, than Logic and than FL. And I almost don't know any 'electronic' musicians in real life. 
As I said, specially because everybody has a Lite version. A decade (?) ago when everything (specially mags) included Cubase, everybody had Cubase.


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 28, 2021)

greggybud said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Would you care to provide a source for this? Last I checked, no major DAW developer manifests anything close to "most users nowadays is Live." Some do a lot of marketing research aimed at target demographics, but it's expensive, and the results is private to my knowledge.
> 
> I have seen a lot of polls, but IMO, they are always skewed or biased.


I wouldn't even know what to say about that since almost all rankings for users her in Japan put Ableton pretty low on the list. Its almost always ranked as Cubase, Studio One, Pro Tools, Logic and FL Studio before Ableton Live. Whatever the case, I dont see as many users of Live out here. 


Tren said:


> An alternative if your specific use case falls within the bounds of its limitations comparative to Ableton Live.
> 
> Pretty much the same could be said of Logic Pro X, DP, Mixcraft, even Cakewalk by BandLab.
> 
> Yet, there Live is... still de facto.


Actually, our use cases fit far better with the overall workflow of studio one more than live. The fact that Live does stuff we don't need it to do doesn't make it a better DAW choice for us. Its splitting hairs, but from start to finish, and all the edits and things we had to do while on tours, Studio One handled the task perfectly with Show Page.


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## Mr Mindcrime (Jan 29, 2021)

Crossroads said:


> Unrelated maybe but I don't think piracy is bad to an extent. Too much copy protection can be super anti-consumer. I also think that, those people who don't pay for music software would never have been costumers in the first place.
> 
> Might be controversial, but I do believe piracy can actually lead to sales. I believe lots of the sales of Ableton and FL Studio are coming from that, from bedroom producers in their teens trying out if making music is something for them, and then, when deciding it's what they like, actually forking out for said software. I think the only way to combat this is to be much more generous with demo versions (90 days like Ableton now does for example).


Wrong. Stealing is stealing. Any way you choose to interpret it, it's illegal and wrong. Period. 

As far as piracy being good for marketing, I'd call BS on that. If you're willing to rip off copyrighted software once, you'll do it again. You're either honest or you're not. 

There are free or inexpensive options for those without means to get into DAW composing and music creation. Try those (legally) first. If it's for you and you can one day afford it, then move up. If you can't ever afford the more expensive options, then stick with the free versions or find something else to do. But don't become a thief.


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## ThomasL (Jan 29, 2021)

Mr Mindcrime said:


> As far as piracy being good for marketing, I'd call BS on that. If you're willing to rip off copyrighted software once, you'll do it again. You're either honest or you're not.


I'm not sure you could dismiss it that easily but please correct me if I'm wrong. In the grocery stores in Sweden you can buy a copy of Photoshop User (or whatever they are called) and I really don't think that there are that many people with legitimate copies of PS to insure a safe business for such magazines. Not to be able to be distributed in your regular grocery store at least.

The "tricks" you learn in these magazines are in a way important for those that actually pursue a career in design. Every workplace in design has at least one seat of PS. And if you land a job you don't need to be a thief anymore, your employer will most likely pay the license cost for you.

So it just might drive sales, but in my example not for Adobe in the short term.

And before anyone jumps on me, I don't like/condone pirating. Ever. Period. I just think it's a valid point of view, that's all.


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## Andy_P (Jan 29, 2021)

ThomasL said:


> I'm not sure you could dismiss it that easily but please correct me if I'm wrong. In the grocery stores in Sweden you can buy a copy of Photoshop User (or whatever they are called) and I really don't think that there are that many people with legitimate copies of PS to insure a safe business for such magazines. Not to be able to be distributed in your regular grocery store at least.
> 
> The "tricks" you learn in these magazines are in a way important for those that actually pursue a career in design. Every workplace in design has at least one seat of PS. And if you land a job you don't need to be a thief anymore, your employer will most likely pay the license cost for you.
> 
> ...


+1
YOu can not ignore how popular Cubase 5 was. Now newbies almost do not know about it at all, unless they are better informed and into scoring or something and willing to pay premium for a DAW.


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