# Upgrading to a new Mac Pro - your thoughts please



## ThomasL (Oct 19, 2015)

Hi,

I (we actually) have finally come to the conclusion that we really (really!) need to update the main studio computer. Prefferably we will do this before the year ends, for tax purposes. Yes, we have considered switching to a PC based system but there is a lot of software, knowledge and actual love for Logic Pro that makes a transition non-debatable. We are staying Mac. Period.

Background:
Today we have a Mac Pro 2008 2.8GHz 8-Core with 24 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD (ripped out one of the DVD-Rs) + 4 SATA drives, one in a RAID 0 config + external USB3 via USB3 PCIe card. Also in this machine are two UAD-2 PCIe cards, one Solo and one Quad.

Things to consider:
1) The "new" Mac Pro is actually two years old. They sell with El Capitan pre-installed. I have a local dealer that I've talked to and I can buy their demo-machine (with Yosemite) for a little less than a brand new, they'll install 64GB RAM, it's a 4-core machine with 256GB drive.

2) Our PCIe cards aren't usable in the new Mac. I've read that for the new Mac Pro to be able to deal with PCIe cards in a chassis it needs to be at least an Octo card, so we need to get some other solution. Either an Thunderbolt Octo expansion or an Apollo 8. Considering the fact that a chassis almost costs as much as the Octo expansion there is no question that that is a better alternative.

3) Current audio interface is a Presonus Firestudio Project. Nothing special but it works flawlessly for our purposes. It is however a Firewire 400 device.

So, there are quite a few challenges for all this to go as smooth as it possibly can. First thing is money, there is no way we can pay for all this year and I'm debating with myself pros and cons but I could use some other perspective, if there is one.

The 2008 Mac Pro will be kept as a "sample slave" for the orchestral/big template stuff we do which in turn puts some less stress on HDs for the new Mac Pro. Mind you, the current one is usually loaded with 10-15 GB of samples via Vienna Ensemble Pro and Kontakt so it will be better of in the future when Logic is running on another machine






Alternatives:
1) Get the Mac Pro now, sell of the UAD-2 PCIe cards and try to make without UAD-2 plugins until sometime in the spring when there are some more money to be invested in UAD hardware. BUT, will I be able to work without UAD-2?
or
2) Get a Thunderbolt Octo now (a bit "too cheap" for our needed tax return but anyway), sell of the PCIe cards and wait for the Mac Pro to be updated and get it in spring. BUT, is it possible to run a Thunderbolt Octo card via a Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter?
or
3) Get an Apollo 8 now, sell of the cards and wait a bit longer for the Mac Pro, hopefully will everything regarding audio and El Capitan be sorted out by then. BUT, does it work ok with a Thunderbolt adapter?
or
4) Any other solution?

Some of you have probably already made the transformation to a "modern" studio so I'll be more than happy to read what you can say about it.
Is 256GB drive enough?
Is 4-cores enough?
I usually max out my 5 SHARCS, will I cope with an Apollo?

Decisions, decisions...

See the dilemma(s)?!? I posted this on another forum as well but I could use as many different view as possible. Help please


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## synthpunk (Oct 19, 2015)

Thomas, I think the Apollo and Thunderbolt is the way to go there.

How many cores is the dealer demo ? I would go with at lest 6, 8 would be preferred.


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## ThomasL (Oct 19, 2015)

Yeah, I hear you! It almost doubles the amount of money needed though. Plus the fact that I loose 1 SHARC. The Mac is "only" a 4-core.


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## synthpunk (Oct 19, 2015)

well, I would save, finance, sell, etc. if possible, you not only want to have a speedy machine now but future protect yourself down the road so your not in the same situation in 3-4 years.


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## lpuser (Oct 19, 2015)

Thomas, do you mean the round Mac Pro when writing "new" Mac Pro? If so, then it´s worth saying that the 4-core Mac Pro 2013 does not perform that exceptionally great. Many folks I know would not recommend the 4- but the the 6-core CPU. You may even benefit more buying a used 2010+ tower Mac Pro with more GHz and a 6-core CPU. Just a thought - so I recommend checking some benchmark pages before you finally decide.

It´s also worth mentioning that - so far - not many plugins work with El Capitan. Not sure when they will be updated and how much upgrades will cost. You should also consider this and maybe stick with Yosemite for a while still.

cheers
Tom


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## samphony (Oct 19, 2015)

Thomas you can use the thunderbolt to FireWire adapter. Get a FireWire 400 to 800 cable and you should be fine.

I'm running the 6core machine and I consider buying a second one.
Of course you could wait but if you wait you can't make music unless your current setup is running fine.


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## ThomasL (Oct 19, 2015)

lpuser said:


> Thomas, do you mean the round Mac Pro when writing "new" Mac Pro? If so, then it´s worth saying that the 4-core Mac Pro 2013 does not perform that exceptionally great. Many folks I know would not recommend the 4- but the the 6-core CPU. You may even benefit more buying a used 2010+ tower Mac Pro with more GHz and a 6-core CPU. Just a thought - so I recommend checking some benchmark pages before you finally decide.
> 
> It´s also worth mentioning that - so far - not many plugins work with El Capitan. Not sure when they will be updated and how much upgrades will cost. You should also consider this and maybe stick with Yosemite for a while still.
> 
> ...


Yes, the "new" Darth Helmet Pro 

Interesting thoughts, haven't thought of getting a used machine, part is that it's a bit harder to write off, tax-wise. If I could find a used 2010+ then all I have at the moment would work, but would the speed bump be enough? And if so, for how long?

The El Capitan problem is one I'm aware of, that's why I'm glad that there is a "demo machine" close by that still has Yosemite and they have no plans of upgrading it, yet. But then again, it's only a 4-core.


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## ThomasL (Oct 19, 2015)

samphony said:


> Thomas you can use the thunderbolt to FireWire adapter. Get a FireWire 400 to 800 cable and you should be fine.


I've read up on those adapters and converters but if I get the UAD-2 Thunderbolt Octo expansion first, can I use that with Firewire 800?
EDIT: probably no since the Firewire versions only go up to Quad.



samphony said:


> I'm running the 6core machine and I consider buying a second one.
> Of course you could wait but if you wait you can't make music unless your current setup is running fine.


This is the culprit, exactly this! Question is if I'll be happy with a 4-core? The 6-core is a bit to much money right now. Damn.

May I ask how big your internal drive is? What external (if any) drives do you use?


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## samphony (Oct 19, 2015)

ThomasL said:


> I've read up on those adapters and converters but if I get the UAD-2 Thunderbolt Octo expansion first, can I use that with Firewire 800?
> EDIT: probably no since the Firewire versions only go up to Quad.
> 
> 
> ...


The adapters from 800 to 400 should work fine.

I use the black magic multidocks for 2.5" ssds and sad hybrid drives.
My internal ssd is 256gb. Which can easily be upgraded later but I usually stor apps only. Anything else is stored externally. I also have my old WD Studio Raid for backups attached via thunderbolt to FireWire 800.


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## babylonwaves (Oct 19, 2015)

ThomasL said:


> Yeah, I hear you! It almost doubles the amount of money needed though. Plus the fact that I loose 1 SHARC. The Mac is "only" a 4-core.


the 6-core versions are significantly more expensive than the 4-core. but you can BTO a 4-core machine which you then upgrade to 6-cores on the mac store. this way you save money (because you don't buy the bigger graphic card). for me, 256GB work because i have only the system + DAW + plug-ins on this drive. that saves money as well.


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## gsilbers (Oct 19, 2015)

2012 macpro (cheese crater)
or upgrade the cpu on the old mac. I don tknow if 2008 can do it but 2009 and up can.


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## samphony (Oct 19, 2015)

babylonwaves said:


> the 6-core versions are significantly more expensive than the 4-core. but you can BTO a 4-core machine which you then upgrade to 6-cores on the mac store. this way you save money (because you don't buy the bigger graphic card). for me, 256GB work because i have only the system + DAW + plug-ins on this drive. that saves money as well.


That's what I did.


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## ThomasL (Oct 20, 2015)

Well, thanks for all the insights. I think I'm going to hold on for now though and wait for Apple to update the Mac pro. Good to know that the 4-core is in the "low" range. Gonna aim for an 8-core if the wallet permits.


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## utopia (Oct 21, 2015)

I'm in a very similar situation and going through the same dilemma. For one thing, you can get a refurbished current mac pro for around $500 cheaper than new and have a better price/performance balance that way. Then, you could wait for the update but 1) No one knows really how long the wait will take and 2) It's unclear if the wait will be worth it at all in the end - will the upgrade be of real advantage for audio production (not some 10% cpu power upgrade and the latest/greatest graphic card for eg.)? + it'll most certainly be more expensive than the current offering (especially taking into account the refurb options).
Still haven't decided which way to go.


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## samphony (Oct 21, 2015)

ThomasL said:


> Well, thanks for all the insights. I think I'm going to hold on for now though and wait for Apple to update the Mac pro. Good to know that the 4-core is in the "low" range. Gonna aim for an 8-core if the wallet permits.


Another option would be to get that 4 core and upgrade that to an 8/10/12 core afterwards. 

I think 80% of people I know call it "trash can". Maybe that's an indication that this mac will be the last pro of its kind


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## lpuser (Oct 21, 2015)

ThomasL said:


> If I could find a used 2010+ then all I have at the moment would work, but would the speed bump be enough? And if so, for how long?



That is a good question and the answer probably is: No system will keep anyone satisfied for long  One gets used to speed etc. rather sooner than later. I´d suggest looking here, too:
https://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

Depending on what you are looking at (64-bit / 32-bit, single-/multi-core) you may see that the 4-core Helmet Mac does not offer such a good price-performance ration. This observation is on par with many reviews and feedback I got when I was looking into a new system. Especially when we are talking about Logic, the CPU speed is important - and 6 cores usually rock. The amount of plugins etc. I could use coming from a tower 4-core to a faster tower 6-core was astonishing, althought I could use a new machine again 

So if you really intend to buy a 2013 Mac Pro, then you should seriously consider the 6-core over the 4-core. Other than that, there are very good used 2010/2012 Mac Pro 5,1 systems available which are far less expensive and might bring you over the time until Apple refreshes the 2013 Mac Pro with new CPUs etc. (which I think will happen, now that 2 years have passed since its introduction).


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## URL (Mar 25, 2016)

Mac pro Xeon E5 Skylake is arriving in 2017... Intel will update Broadwell process before -so we have to wait...


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## Ashermusic (Mar 25, 2016)

Do you already have a powerful PC slave? If not, keep your present Mac and get one IMHO.


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## URL (Mar 25, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> Do you already have a powerful PC slave? If not, keep your present Mac and get one IMHO.



Yes I have a new slave, my old Q-PRO are my old Mac Pro has a bit tough nowadays so..if Apple Mac update Pro to Xeon E5 to v4 or wait or reduce template...
...


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## Ashermusic (Mar 25, 2016)

URL said:


> Yes I have a new slave, my old Q-PRO are my old Mac Pro has a bit tough nowadays so..if Apple Mac update Pro to Xeon E5 to v4 or wait or reduce template...
> ...




Well then I would simply buy a new top of the line iMac. Much less expensive way to go and in tandem with a powerful PC, it is a killer combo. Yes, you will need some docks for other drives and PCI-e cards but that is true of the new Mac Pros as well.


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## JohnG (Mar 25, 2016)

URL said:


> reduce template...



What????

[Obi-wan voice] "You can never reduce the template, Luke..."


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## URL (Mar 25, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> Well then I would simply buy a new top of the line iMac. Much less expensive way to go and in tandem with a powerful PC, it is a killer combo. Yes, you will need some docks for other drives and PCI-e cards but that is true of the new Mac Pros as well.



Yes iMac has been in my thoughts, but the limitation of memory is something frustrating- Imac feels not future-proof for that reason. Sample lib has not historical decreased memory usage, 32Gb is not good. Win isn't my favorit OS so Im stuck... I have been looking for the 8-core and future Mac pro aint gonna be cheaper, If your depend on daw "industry" is constantly waiting for the latest technology.


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## URL (Mar 25, 2016)

JohnG said:


> What????
> 
> [Obi-wan voice] "You can never reduce the template, Luke..."


Haha- that would be to lose the template battle


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## Saxer (Mar 25, 2016)

A friend of mine has a new Hackintosh. Cool machine (when you don't look at it). The big pro: good price and you can configure it the way you want. Cons: you'll never know what happens if MacOS updates come along.
Ok, you can keep the system as it is but what happens if a Logic update comes along that requires a new OS?
It happened that Kontakt 5.x wasn't longer supported for 10.6.8 - I had a MacPro 2006 and couldn't get higher than 10.9.x and so I changed to the Darth Helmet. So sticking with an old OS can happen with a Mac too. That's a reason why I won't buy an older Mac.
For the future I'm thinking seriously about a HackMac. If you replace them every 3 years instead of a Mac every 6 years it's the same price range and you have always a fast machine.


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## JohnG (Mar 25, 2016)

I would never get a Hackintosh [edited -- spell check had it wrong] for the reasons Saxer mentioned. However, I do have two "pre-owned" Macs and they work just fine. One of them had the guts removed and replaced with the new 12 core stuff. So far, so good.

Are there guys who do this service (upgrade old Mac towers) where you live?


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## Maestro77 (Mar 25, 2016)

I had a Hack for a few years, built by a good friend of mine. It was a very powerful machine and worked well for the most part but not being able to easily update the OS was a huge pain. I eventually gave in and picked up a trash can. Loving it.


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## URL (Mar 25, 2016)

I Sweden there is no way to upgrade old Macs- I think England is the nearest...


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## AlexRuger (Mar 25, 2016)

I upgraded to one of these, partly because of this article: http://create.pro/blog/mac-pro-51-b...xpandability-unparalleled-customisation-king/

It's been great. I'll be able to continue to replace parts for years to come, and with a PC VEPro host, I haven't had any performance issues. 

So, in your case, I'd split the cash and buy the best "cheese grater" Mac Pro that you can, and then either build a PC or find another, decent Mac Pro (since it sounds like you want to stay in the Apple ecosystem as much as you can), and have two VEPro hosts (your old 2008 and another one).


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## URL (Mar 25, 2016)

OSX has really saved me from spending to much time on complicated problems that have always followed win in different versions in daw world, in earlier versions of synced daw true midi and audio to connected via 2-3 computers, and added more time to get this to work than to actually performance. OS X is the way to go for me... create pro is seems interesting.


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## samphony (Mar 25, 2016)

@URL 

I use a trashcan since 2014. I like it. And it runs flawlessly every single day. I'll add either a space PC or another trash can soon. I personally would get the Darth Pro anytime. No matter if new XEONs arrive or not. I traveled with the Vader helmet in 2014 and everything was flawlessly running on a single machine setup.


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## Mishabou (Mar 25, 2016)

Same here, i've been using the tharsh can since it came out. I had the 6 cores and just upgraded to the 12 cores this week. It ran flawlessly since day one.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 25, 2016)

I asked about Hackintoshes here (this forum) a few weeks ago, and the answers confirmed what Saxer and John say and more.

To me there are too many reasons to stick with supported configurations.


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## URL (Mar 26, 2016)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I asked about Hackintoshes here (this forum) a few weeks ago, and the answers confirmed what Saxer and John say and more.
> 
> To me there are too many reasons to stick with supported configurations.



Yes it is my opinion also.


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## URL (Mar 26, 2016)

does anyone know if there is a big difference between 12-core and 8-core 6.1 Mac Pro for daw, theres a huge differences in price?


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## Baron Greuner (Mar 26, 2016)

Most of the Uk Pros I know go to MacBank (Mac Refresh etc - all the same company).

Ring Macbank and ask to speak to George.


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## synthpunk (Mar 26, 2016)

I went with the 6 core for price v performance. (3700 u.s.).
Remember with hyper threading you will double your cores as long as the applications utilize hyper threading (ie Logic, Kontact, VEP, Diva, etc.).

I know someone who went 8 core based on performance. They are running Logic X, PT, and video all on that one machine.

You can always upgrade the processor down the road to 10 or 12 cores.

Mine had been flawless with 3 screens (2 displayport and 1 hdmi).


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## URL (Mar 26, 2016)

aesthete said:


> I went with the 6 core for price v performance. (3700 u.s.).
> Remember with hyper threading you will double your cores as long as the applications utilize hyper threading (ie Logic).
> 
> I know someone who went 8 core base on performance.
> ...



yes my opinion to . Thanks for your reply.


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## stonzthro (Mar 26, 2016)

About 1/2 the people I know who have the new Mac Pros have graphics card issues - flickering/glitches/screens disconnecting. One guy I know has had to replace his 3 times. That alone would make me go iMac/slaves or wait to see if Apple will address the issue on a reboot of the Mac Pro. Obviously there are a lot of people out there who don't have the graphics issues, just passing along what I have heard from users...


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## Ashermusic (Mar 26, 2016)

Indeed, Leo LaPorte, radio's The Tech Guy, had to get three before he got one that worked. He said that he present Mac Pro is the worst Mac he has ever bought in terms of quality control.


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## URL (Mar 26, 2016)

Oh, thanks for that information that is really "bad" quality- Mac pro 6.1
is what I remember made in the US, Apple moved from Asia if my memory serves me, it's a little unusual for US manufactured products have recurring error- perhaps is best and go another way of computer purchases until a new Mac Pro arrives.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 26, 2016)

The present Mac Pro is too much money for a computer. I'm not grousing about the price for this computer, I'm saying you shouldn't and don't need to spend that much for a professional DAW machine.


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## URL (Mar 26, 2016)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The present Mac Pro is too much money for a computer. I'm not grousing about the price for this computer, I'm saying you shouldn't and don't need to spend that much for a professional DAW machine.



I agree.


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## synthpunk (Mar 26, 2016)

Christian @ SF has some good things to say about his vader helmet (dustbins) MP here.




But the current 4 core Imac's are fine now as well, have a beautiful screen, and you can always add slaves down the road when/if needed with VEP.


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## URL (Mar 27, 2016)

Imac 27 Skylake adresses 64GB this is interesting, anyone uses this modell?
http://appleinsider.com/articles/15...-5k-retina-display-supports-up-to-64gb-of-ram


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## passsacaglia (Mar 27, 2016)

URL said:


> Imac 27 Skylake adresses 64GB this is interesting, anyone uses this modell?
> http://appleinsider.com/articles/15...-5k-retina-display-supports-up-to-64gb-of-ram



Really into buying that one happy day. 64GB must be superb? Equal to..6 or 8 core? or what would be better?
I rather buy the 5k iMac and upgrade to 64GB instead of a macpro or smthn like that. Feels cheaper and you get that supernice screen.

Wondering how "much" you can load and have running at the same time and skipping VEPro. That seems like a lot of struggle to me.


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## URL (Mar 27, 2016)

There are new test on you tube Mac pro 6-core vs Imac 27 Ret. 4.0


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## Simon Ravn (Mar 27, 2016)

The iMac is not a serious workstation in my mind. It is nice and shiny and no doubt great for photographers etc. but I wouldn't want that to be my DAW.


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## URL (Mar 27, 2016)

I am not convinced that the computer fan is positioned at ear level, even if they are quieter today than earlier- Otherwise I have no experience with the iMac.


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## Chris Hein (Mar 27, 2016)

My MacPro is the best computer I ever had.

I did it. I spent the money for the full size version with 12 cores, 64GB.
Once paid, I can forget about the amount of money and life happy for the next few years without the: "Damn, I should have..."

Maybe its right, its too much money for what it does, but what is does is done perfect.
Especially when you work on video and audio at the same time. I used to have two separate machines fir video and audio.
Now its all in one and really fun to watch After Effects, Vue & Premiere rendering, while I'm still able to run my DAW.
All that on four screens.

Chris Hein


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## Ashermusic (Mar 27, 2016)

Simon Ravn said:


> The iMac is not a serious workstation in my mind..



It is when you pair it with a powerful slave PC.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 27, 2016)

Chris Hein wrote: "Maybe its right, its too much money for what it does, but what is does is done perfect. Especially when you work on video and audio at the same time"

Video and motion graphics are different and more demanding applications than audio, Chris. My comment is only about DAW machines!

A friend who does motion graphics uses several computers as "rendering farms." He always kept his old computers when he bought the latest.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 27, 2016)

I've posted this here and elsewhere, but how long will it be before none of us needs to buy desktop machines anymore? My guess is four years on the outside.

Today's top MacBook Pro is a quad 2.8GHz that holds 16GB of RAM. Connect a large monitor and peripherals, and you're 90% of the way to a very good desktop DAW. It's really only the 16GB that's a deal-breaker.

To me that's more appealing than buying all that redundant hardware. And you wouldn't have to synchronize machines when you need to bring work with you (whether traveling or just sitting in a waiting room or something).

***

I've also posted that ten years from now, even mobile devices are likely to have more power than we need - even for video and motion graphics. My guess is that they'll connect to keyboards and monitors wirelessly when we walk into the room. That presupposes that Apple will converge iOS and OS X the way Windows is doing, but I don't think you need to be clairvoyant to see things going that way.


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## AlexRuger (Mar 27, 2016)

I don't know, man, that's based on an awful lot of assumptions. 

First of all, Moore's Law is slowing down quite a bit. A seven year old computer today is totally usable (my 2009 MacBook Pro runs a tad slow but is otherwise totally fine), whereas a 2002 computer would have been ancient and completely obsolete in 2009.

Sample libraries and plug-ins always take advantage of the latest technologies. So, sure, a laptop is more usable nowadays than it used to be, but plugins use more processing power (because there's more available), sample libraries take more storage space and RAM (because there's more available). All things being equal, you'll of course be able to do more on a laptop compared to what we can do now, but not to the orders of magnitude that you're talking about.

Also, there is absolutely no indication that Apple will converge iOS or OS X--potentially _precisely because _Microsoft is doing that with Windows.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 27, 2016)

The part about iOS is based on assumptions, but the rest is actually very conservative and based on what's out there today.

You won't get an argument from me about what used to be unusably old computers. My main Mac is a 2008 Mac Pro 8-core, and with 32GB of RAM and an SSD system drive it's capable of running my big orchestral template. That says we don't care about Moore's law, not that it matters if it slows down! Computers are no longer 2-year investments like they used to be.

And I think you have the software and hardware backward. For years you were right, but that flipped around 2008. In fact, the software has only recently caught up with the hardware (not counting VE Pro, which always used all the cores efficiently, and leaving aside the Hollywood orchestra, which uses 50 billion voices for all those mic positions).

As to Moore's law for laptops, today's top-line MacBook Pro is more powerful than lots of desktop machines - probably including your and my Mac Pros. The limitation is 16GB of RAM, and it wouldn't surprise me if they raised that with the next models.

You'll notice that Apple no longer sells a machine with a tower case. So it's really just the big monitor that makes a computer a desktop machine, and you can connect that to a laptop.

***
iOS and OS X converging... well, they've said they're not going to make them converge, but who knows what's coming. Most people don't need a Mac for general computing already - they just use iPads and iPhones.

So there again, it's not a matter of Moore's law, it's a matter of what companies decide to sell us.


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## Simon Ravn (Mar 28, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> It is when you pair it with a powerful slave PC.



I still don't think that matters. Soldered RAM, display+computer in one, no way to add internal storage (I know the new trashcan doesn't offer much here either, but I think that form factor is a huge mistake as well). Basically, if anything goes wrong with that machine (gfx, storage, memory, display), you're screwed. I'd take a tower any day.


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## URL (Mar 28, 2016)

Compact consumer products are cheaper to produce, for users is not obvious to send the whole package back for repair. For professionals, it becomes more natural to fix the problems themselves as far as possible and that is something the manufacturers of the Pro-products have counted ....I think, Mac Pro tower is probably the best computer I've had for 30 years and it's really a shame for the maintenance and wallet, although it is logical that the trend is in that compact direction. Taking Mac 6.1, TB-PCIe box for dsp cards, TB-SSD box, screen itself, it's the perfect troubleshooting standpoint -but cost way too much for that kind of setup in my opinion even for a pro.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 28, 2016)

Simon Ravn said:


> I still don't think that matters. Soldered RAM, display+computer in one, no way to add internal storage (I know the new trashcan doesn't offer much here either, but I think that form factor is a huge mistake as well). Basically, if anything goes wrong with that machine (gfx, storage, memory, display), you're screwed. I'd take a tower any day.



I owned Mac Pros for years, but these days of low budgets I am all about bang for the buck, and my iMac/PC Slave/UAD card will blow away any one tower for less money. But sure, if I had more good paying work I would probably replace the iMac with a new Mac Pro and a second good monitor to go with the 41" Ultra HD 4k I am using with my iMac.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 28, 2016)

Good point about new machines being designed not to be repaired, URL. Actually, it bothers me more that they're hard to upgrade yourself. You can't even replace the batteries easily in a current laptop, never mind adding memory!

And Jay is right too: it comes down to shag for the sheckel (sex for the sestercius? Anything other than bang for the buck!). You don't need the most athletic computer made to run a DAW, and you can do the bulk of your sample streaming on a generic machine.


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## passsacaglia (Mar 28, 2016)

Posted in the other thread but might just ask here too:
"Soon", in the near future I want to upgrade my current mac. 
A MP with 6+ cores is e x p e n s i v e.

I was thinkin an iMac, i7, at least 512 pci ssd as my internal and 1-2 usb 3.0 ssd's like Touro S/mobile pro/Samsung T1..
And upgrade to 64GB ram. 
What would u say, core vs ram?
A MP with at least 6 cores and around 32GB of ram? Or smthn similar..
Or an iMac i7 with a nice SSD and 64GB upgraded ram??  
Anyone with the 2nd option and doing fine?


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## mac (Mar 28, 2016)

I know a lot of people do just fine using a MBP, Daniel James for example, as do I. In saying that, I don't have a 200 track template that I load up so your needs may vary. It also means you can create epic trailer music whilst sitting on the toilet


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## URL (Mar 28, 2016)

passsacaglia said:


> Posted in the other thread but might just ask here too:
> "Soon", in the near future I want to upgrade my current mac.
> A MP with 6+ cores is e x p e n s i v e.
> 
> ...





iMac, i7 Skylake and Mac Pro Xeon haswell are diff process and huge ram always makes things go smooth until process pikes, so, the practical things like repair, but we covered that Q.
Check there is a test on YT for imac i7 and 6-core. What are your needs?


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## URL (Mar 28, 2016)

mac said:


> I know a lot of people do just fine using a MBP, Daniel James for example, as do I. In saying that, I don't have a 200 track template that I load up so your needs may vary. It also means you can create epic trailer music whilst sitting on the toilet



Daniel have a Mac 12-core tower and a MBP...I think a pc also if my memory is with me...maybe not using it


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## Daniel James (Mar 28, 2016)

I'm currently living in Tokyo on my Nomad studio which is a 2015 MacBookPro 2.8ghz 16gigs of RAM 1TB Hard Drive. Connected to an 1TB SSD via usb 3.0 where I stream samples. I have finished 5 shorts a trailer project and just finished a video game all without any noticeable changes to my workflow. The only thing I have genuinely missed from my UK studio is having multiple displays, everything else seems to be fine!

-DJ


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## passsacaglia (Mar 29, 2016)

mac said:


> I know a lot of people do just fine using a MBP, Daniel James for example, as do I. In saying that, I don't have a 200 track template that I load up so your needs may vary. It also means you can create epic trailer music whilst sitting on the toilet



Ohh he does!? But maybe the biggest/best processor on that maybe?
Cool man thanks for this! Yeah I mostly do emotional piano stuff, some strings and a woodwind solo instrument..
May do some trailer music and ending themes and theme music. Not suuuper orchestral and mega templates so...you may be right!


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## URL (Mar 29, 2016)

Daniel James said:


> I'm currently living in Tokyo on my Nomad studio which is a 2015 MacBookPro 2.8ghz 16gigs of RAM 1TB Hard Drive. Connected to an 1TB SSD via usb 3.0 where I stream samples. I have finished 5 shorts a trailer project and just finished a video game all without any noticeable changes to my workflow. The only thing I have genuinely missed from my UK studio is having multiple displays, everything else seems to be fine!
> -DJ



You never had a Mac pro tower or pc for your epic work for your studio in England? Of course short trailers 1min or... so
If you have epic Q that is 30min or more its not possible with one MBP if you have two skylakes so....
So the type of music decide your setup. Its possible to make music in your Iphone but to record your music its a other story.


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## Daniel James (Mar 29, 2016)

URL said:


> You never had a Mac pro tower or pc for your epic work for your studio in England? Of course short trailers 1min or... so
> If you have epic Q that is 30min or more its not possible with one MBP if you have two skylakes so....
> So the type of music decide your setup. Its possible to make music in your Iphone but to record your music its a other story.



I have a 12core Mac Pro tower back in the UK. But so far have been able to work on my MacbookPro, in the same way I do in England with no issue. And full length, fully orchestrated trailers. Full features crazy sound designed video games and everything in between. I think my longest cue so far is about 9 minutes long and the macbook didn't struggle at all (was a dense action cue too). I was surprised at how well it works, but it does. And lol this is from experience of actually using both machines, so take my word for it. If you haven't done the same on both please don't imply otherwise.

-DJ


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## airwavemusic (Mar 29, 2016)

12 core tower Mac Pro from create pro here and happy with it. My workflow isn't that demanding as I keep rendering to audio systematically. I was ok with my quad i7 macbookpro but 16gb isn't enough for me, even when purging samples from kontakt instances. I upgraded the tower to 64gb and honestly, with 32gb if you purge and add a pcie ssd to the tower, it'll be as fine as a trashcan Mac Pro but at a third of the price. Mac OS X Yosemite apparently goes up to 96gb of ram. The 5,1 Mac Pro supports 128.


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## URL (Mar 29, 2016)

Daniel James said:


> I have a 12core Mac Pro tower back in the UK. But so far have been able to work on my MacbookPro, in the same way I do in England with no issue. And full length, fully orchestrated trailers. Full features crazy sound designed video games and everything in between. I think my longest cue so far is about 9 minutes long and the macbook didn't struggle at all (was a dense action cue too). I was surprised at how well it works, but it does. And lol this is from experience of actually using both machines, so take my word for it. If you haven't done the same on both please don't imply otherwise.
> 
> -DJ



I assume nothing about the rest of the world to compose music using only a 1 MBP is probably no idea to use the 12-core Mac pc slaves without template that provides a faster way of working, of course, I understand that it is possible to use 1MBP to compose shorter Qs. Everything depends on how you are setup to work and what kind of music someone compose. *Im not implying that you don't use it*- I just try to say that it depends type of music and how long the Q is, look at J.P server room there are differences in how composers work...and if you overwrite your Qs...


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## Daniel James (Mar 29, 2016)

URL said:


> I assume nothing about the rest of the world to compose music using only a 1 MBP is probably no idea to use the 12-core Mac pc slaves without template that provides a faster way of working, of course, I understand that it is possible to use 1MBP to compose shorter Qs. Everything depends on how you are setup to work and what kind of music someone compose. *Im not implying that you don't use it*- I just try to say that it depends type of music and how long the Q is, look at J.P server room there are differences in how composers work...and if you overwrite your Qs...



Thats what I am saying, I am using it on long dense cues with tons of stuff going on and not having any issues. I am not sure why you keep referring to it only being able to do shorter cues, As I keep saying the current set up is working fine EVEN on the big and long cues. Also I have noticed no real difference in load times or speed of working. I work exactly the same as I do on my 12 core and there is no difference. The only difference I notice is having less displays. The actual work is the same. For long and short cues (again)

-DJ


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## URL (Mar 29, 2016)

Daniel James said:


> Thats what I am saying, I am using it on long dense cues with tons of stuff going on and not having any issues. I am not sure why you keep referring to it only being able to do shorter cues, As I keep saying the current set up is working fine EVEN on the big and long cues. Also I have noticed no real difference in load times or speed of working. I work exactly the same as I do on my 12 core and there is no difference. The only difference I notice is having less displays. The actual work is the same. For long and short cues (again)
> 
> -DJ



Thanks for the information, if I may ask, referring to that 9min cue which type of reverb and plugins are you using, how many channels/lib do you use at the same time in compose/mix, you'll rendering audio all the time or, I'm curious if you have time to respond. Thanks for your answers.


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## Daniel James (Mar 29, 2016)

URL said:


> Thanks for the information, if I may ask, referring to that 9min cue which type of reverb and plugins are you using, how many channels/lib do you use at the same time in compose/mix, you'll rendering audio all the time or, I'm curious if you have time to respond. Thanks for your answers.



I usually have an ArtsAcoustic insert on each section (Strings, Brass, Perc, Wind, Synth and Extra) then I have an Altiverb Send. There is about 100 tracks (give or take a couple of pointless ones for one of random FX) The strings has: Soaring Strings, Cinestrings, Cinematic Strings, Action Strings, Orchestral String Runs and Symphobia. Brass has: Albion One, Albion 1, Cinebrass Pro, CineBrass Core, Epic Horns, Symphobia and some Tutti. Perc has: HZ Perc (taikos, big drums, exotics, timpani and metal) Damage, Epic Taiko, Cine Perc core cymbals and various small percs, Master Session Ensemble metals. Wind has Cinewinds, Cinesymphony lite winds, Albion One. Synth has a bunch of audio rendered Omnipshere with a fuck ton of FX on. Runs at about 30% cpu with the video running in its most dense section.

-DJ


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## airwavemusic (Mar 29, 2016)

Daniels right. A quad i7 MacBook Pro is most of the time fine and I was able to do a few cues without any hassle either. Assuming though that anything but daw is open... I have this bad habit of leaving safari open with 15 tabs plus skype, messages and the likes. I'm terrible and I guess I'm not the only one lol.


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## URL (Mar 29, 2016)

Daniel James said:


> I usually have an ArtsAcoustic insert on each section (Strings, Brass, Perc, Wind, Synth and Extra) then I have an Altiverb Send. There is about 100 tracks (give or take a couple of pointless ones for one of random FX) The strings has: Soaring Strings, Cinestrings, Cinematic Strings, Action Strings, Orchestral String Runs and Symphobia. Brass has: Albion One, Albion 1, Cinebrass Pro, CineBrass Core, Epic Horns, Symphobia and some Tutti. Perc has: HZ Perc (taikos, big drums, exotics, timpani and metal) Damage, Epic Taiko, Cine Perc core cymbals and various small percs, Master Session Ensemble metals. Wind has Cinewinds, Cinesymphony lite winds, Albion One. Synth has a bunch of audio rendered Omnipshere with a fuck ton of FX on. Runs at about 30% cpu with the video running in its most dense section.
> 
> -DJ


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## URL (Mar 29, 2016)

airwavemusic said:


> Daniels right. A quad i7 MacBook Pro is most of the time fine and I was able to do a few cues without any hassle either. Assuming though that anything but daw is open... I have this bad habit of leaving safari open with 15 tabs plus skype, messages and the likes. I'm terrible and I guess I'm not the only one lol.



If I may ask what modell do you have MBP Skylake intel 4.0?


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## mac (Mar 29, 2016)

I don't think they've released a skylake mbp yet have they?


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## Kaufmanmoon (Mar 29, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> I owned Mac Pros for years, but these days of low budgets I am all about bang for the buck, and my iMac/PC Slave/UAD card will blow away any one tower for less money. But sure, if I had more good paying work I would probably replace the iMac with a new Mac Pro and a second good monitor to go with the 41" Ultra HD 4k I am using with my iMac.


Jay, can I ask what kind of spec your slave is?
My current thinking was to go down the create pro route but perhaps replacing my 2009 imac with the lastest i7 and a huge amount of Ram might be better as a purchase and then look at Pc slave further down the line


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## Ashermusic (Mar 29, 2016)

Kaufmanmoon said:


> Jay, can I ask what kind of spec your slave is?
> My current thinking was to go down the create pro route but perhaps replacing my 2009 imac with the lastest i7 and a huge amount of Ram might be better as a purchase and then look at Pc slave further down the line



Intel Core i7 3930k 6 core 3.6 gHz 
PSU :CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX 750W
Motherboard : ASRock X79 Extreme9
Memory : 64 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) RAM


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## Kaufmanmoon (Mar 29, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> Intel Core i7 3930k 6 core 3.6 gHz
> PSU :CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX 750W
> Motherboard : ASRock X79 Extreme9
> Memory : 64 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) RAM



Perfect, many thanks


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## owenave (Mar 29, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> It is when you pair it with a powerful slave PC.


Jay I am not a PC guy and at this point I really don't want to get a PC myself. I like the choice I have made to get a Mac Pro 5.1 12 Core 3.33 ghz 64 gb ram, 2 x 500gb SSD drives via PCIe. It is a speedy machine. And I am running VEP5 Slaves of older Mac Pro 8 Core 3.0 and a MBP 2.4 Dual.


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## ThomasL (Apr 4, 2016)

Well, my MacPro went belly up so the last three-four weeks I've been using my brand new, wait for it, HacPro. Built one myself and it's the best damn machine I've ever had for the price of roughly one-and-a-half to two iPhones. It's an i7 4790K which I've managed to overclock (stable as a rock!) to 4.65 GHz. Runs Logic like a dream!

Never had a 6 GB/s SSD drive in my old MacPro and M.2 drives are like the best thing since, well sunrise(!) so I'm kind of in heaven right now.

Wish I had done this sooner.


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## URL (Apr 5, 2016)

ThomasL said:


> Well, my MacPro went belly up so the last three-four weeks I've been using my brand new, wait for it, HacPro. Built one myself and it's the best damn machine I've ever had for the price of roughly one-and-a-half to two iPhones. It's an i7 4790K which I've managed to overclock (stable as a rock!) to 4.65 GHz. Runs Logic like a dream!
> 
> Never had a 6 GB/s SSD drive in my old MacPro and M.2 drives are like the best thing since, well sunrise(!) so I'm kind of in heaven right now.
> 
> Wish I had done this sooner.



Yes, is there a pc specification parts that runs smoother then others when config a Hacpro?


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## ThomasL (Apr 6, 2016)

Yes there is. This site has every bit of information you'd ever wanted to know!


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## URL (Apr 6, 2016)

ThomasL said:


> Yes there is. This site has every bit of information you'd ever wanted to know!



Hi, thanks for your answer, If I my ask what is your choose of MB, memory, video card its a lot to choose from


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## ThomasL (Apr 7, 2016)

Sure, here is my build:

*Motherboard*
Asus Z97-A (has Thunderbolt capacity via a PCIe card, don't need it just yet)

*CPU*
Intel Core i7-4790K Quad, 4.0GHz (managed to get it stable at 4.65GHz)

*Cooler*
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO

*RAM*
Crucial Ballistix Tactical 8 GB x4

*Graphics Card*
MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti

*Power*
EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G2

*Harddrives*
Samsung 850 EVO 500 GB SSD x2 (1 for boot, 1 for samples)
Samsung 950 PRO 256GB SSD (M.2 in a PCIe chassi)
Seagate Barracuda 1000GB HD x2 in a RAID0 (for Audio projects etc)
Seagate Barracuda 500 GB HD (clone of boot drive)

*PCIe*
DeLOCK FireWire 800


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## URL (Apr 8, 2016)

ThomasL said:


> Sure, here is my build:
> 
> *Motherboard*
> Asus Z97-A (has Thunderbolt capacity via a PCIe card, don't need it just yet)
> ...


Thanks, if you have to or wants to upgrade OS X-Logic is it possible to do so from apple store at the same way as you do with apple computers?


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## ThomasL (Apr 8, 2016)

It seems that it kind of depends on the contents of the update. So far, so good. I'm about to install the latest 10.11.4 and it seems that it's just to install.


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## FriFlo (Apr 8, 2016)

ThomasL said:


> It seems that it kind of depends on the contents of the update. So far, so good. I'm about to install the latest 10.11.4 and it seems that it's just to install.


Well, I guess that is the only downside of a hackintosh system: with every update, you have to do research, wether it will be ok to do. I have been on the fence to go back to Mac OS X as well and am still undecided between a Mac Pro 5.1 12 core and a hackintosh. 
The new Mac Pro seems like a big waste of money to me. It certainly is an accomplishment design wise and I can see people wanting to have it for mobility and needing a very quiet system (which is not that important to me, as my PCs are in a ISO booth). But it is not for me. It is so expensive by itself and would require me to make even more investments for PCIe expansions and SSD chassis (not to mention the expensive Thunderbolt cables ...). That would add up to about 10.000€ for a 6 or 8 core system. Out of the line for what I am willing to spend on a PC.
The Mac Pro 5.1 has the big downside of only supporting sata 2, so, you will be limited in terms of sample content on the main machine. Not to bad in my case, as I use slaves in addition. 
The hackintosh would be perfect for customizabiliy in my case! The only downside is, I cannot do updates without research, which is actually something I would rather want to avoid. It may work often times very well, but you never know, when it won't ...
I guess I will do the Windows 10 update and see ... Actually, when working with the DAW, Windows is very good and there is barely any difference. I am just missing that (IMO) easier setup of the OS and I run in problems with Windows that were unknown to me on the Mac. For example, when I run Sibelius with a film, I get playback problems as soon as I open a YouTube video!? I am sure this is something that can be solved, but all these little annoyances add up and I would rather not have to look for drivers or change programs to avoid these. That is pretty much it! So, I kind of miss Mac OS X a little bit, but only if it comes at a reasonable price!


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## URL (Apr 8, 2016)

I have one leg in Hack pro and one in Mack pro can't decide and so Mac pro is old version and MB z97 chip seems to only handle 32Gb...its tuff in the DAW-Hw config so, well have to decide soon.


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## Kaufmanmoon (May 10, 2016)

It will be interesting to see if we finally get the chance to have 32gb ram as an option in the new Macbook Pro's. Rumour is they're finally being announced in June.
This would be a game changer for me and might save me a few grand; for a year or so at least


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## reddognoyz (May 10, 2016)

I agree on a 2112 cheesegrater Mac, all your hardware will be compatable and a 12core has a ton of horse power.


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## owenave (May 10, 2016)

I can say I have been happy with my 2010 MP 5.1 Cheesegrater. It is a 12 Core 3.3 ghz 64 gb ram (can go up to 128gb ram) Got mine off Ebay from one of the major dealers down in Florida. It even came with a 120 day warranty. Their prices were almost 1/2 what I was seeing local.


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## josefsnabb (Jun 29, 2016)

Hard to decide here as well. For me it´s either a 5.1 Cheese 12-Core or Vader Helmet 6-core. The cylinder is more "future proof" but twice the price + need to buy external HD-enclosure, so reeally lot of money, which I could buy Libraries and other stuff for instead, hmm.


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## josefsnabb (Jun 29, 2016)

It is interesting that my current MP 2.1, with X5365 Quad 2x3Ghz gives Benchmark at 11334 and a 5.1 with 12 Core X5675, 2x3.06Ghz give Benchmark over 25000, having the same clockspeed? just because of two extra cores/CPU? That puzzles me a little, but the numbers got to be trusted I guess.


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## synthpunk (Jun 29, 2016)

Keep in mind that OSX Sierra (due in the Fall) will not run on some older machines. 5.1 firmware will be the minimum. 

https://create.pro/blog/macos-sierr...20102012-mac-pro-51-good-go-apples-latest-os/


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## lpuser (Jun 29, 2016)

aesthete said:


> Keep in mind that OSX Sierra (due in the Fall) will not run on some older machines. 5.1 firmware will be the minimum.



OT: It is however worth mentioning that you can easily flash a 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 to a 5,1. Just did that with mine and it works like a charm. So it seems safe to say that Sierra will run on flashed 2009 Macs.


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## URL (Jun 29, 2016)

lpuser said:


> OT: It is however worth mentioning that you can easily flash a 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 to a 5,1. Just did that with mine and it works like a charm. So it seems safe to say that Sierra will run on flashed 2009 Macs.



Is there a flash guide?


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## synthpunk (Jun 29, 2016)

Perhaps this is worth it's own thread as well.



URL said:


> Is there a flash guide?


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## URL (Jun 29, 2016)

There is a guide on youtube, its easy to flash.


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## lpuser (Jun 29, 2016)

URL said:


> There is a guide on youtube, its easy to flash.



Look here e.g.:


IMPORTANT: Please note - some users have reported an Error (5530 or so) when trying this. The best way to prevent your from running into this is:

Download the Mac Pro Firmware-Update 1.5 "MacProEFIUpdate.dmg" from Apple (http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1321)
Move this file to the desktop and launch the DMG by double-clicking in order to mount it
After this, start the Firmware Upgrade Tool as described. Mounting the disk image on the desktop ensures that the Firmware Upgrade Tool recognizes the latest firmware and applies it.
Have fun!


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## iMovieShout (Nov 2, 2016)

Just my two pennies worth here: 
I've been running with an old style MacPro 5,1 (2010 model with 6-cores) for a couple of years, which was fine for when I was composing as a hobby. But it was completely upgraded it earlier this year. 
It now has 12core 3.46GHz (ie. 2x 3.46GHz CPUs with 6 cores each), 96GB memory, with very fast 2 lots of 2TB Samsung 850 SSDs in RAID 0 (which almost doubles their speed), and boot disk on a Samsung SM951 512GB flash SSD sitting on the PCIe bus - which we've just upgraded again to store the really big / heavy sample libraries, to 2TB (x4 Samsung PM961 512GB SSD's) in RAID0 (giving around 3000MB/sec read and 1800MB/sec write). The main on-board storage has been upgraded from a 3TB HDD to a PCIE based 4TB SSD (ie. 4x Samsung 1TB SATA SSDs in RAID0 giving around 710MB/sec read and 68MB/sec read).
A very fast machine, which can boot up in less than 15 seconds and can load Nuendo 8, ProTools, and a bunch of other software in about a minute, and then load a 64 track Cubase template in around 2 minutes. All whilst running BitDefender anti-virus and Outlook e-mail. This is networked in to our studio network with a 20Gb/sec SFP+ PCIe Sonnet card. Can't believe how fast this beast is!! 

Having just run out of processing power (due to heavy overhead Cubase template with around 80 tracks of Kontakt and EW Play, plus effects), we have now added a MacMini (i7 4 core) to the setup, and have configured the backup MacMini - so both are running Vienna's Ensemble Pro 6 (so they can provide another 10 to 15 tracks each as slaves to the MacPro 5,1 Cubase master machine). And lastly, we're playing around with a MacPro 6,1 (the darth vader model), albeit an entry level 4-core 3.7GHz, but with 32GB memory and 512GB SSD, again networked in to the QNAP NAS via Thunderbolt2) - this to provide additional grunt through Vienna's Ensemble Pro 6, or when needed, to provide a dedicated ProTools server and provide additional FCPX services (we also started to do some video editing and mastering). We'll see how this one goes - but may well opt to sell out for a 3GHz 8-core in the future.

By the way, if you're looking for a Thunderbolt to ethernet interface running at either 10Gb/sec or 20Gb/sec, then take a look at Promise's and Sonnet's interfaces. They're not cheap (around $800 a pop), but they provide an interface between the 2 and maintain reliable high speeds. They have 2 Thunderbolt and 2 ethernet connectors. We bonded / trunked the 2 ethernet ports together to get 20Gb/sec. Make sure you get the correct box though, as there is a box for 10Gb/sec SFP+ ethernet ($800), a box for 10GbE-10baseT ($600), and an 8GbE fibre box ($600). 

We've gone through a lot of pain (trial and error) with the above setup, which has taken us about 4 months to complete (and a bit of an overdraft!!). For us the big factors here are capacity, speed and reliability, and the above now gives us all these plus scalability for storage as the Flash is scalable to 16TB on-board (provided we can afford the flash drives), and the NAS is scalable to more than 200TB with network connectivity at up to 80Gb/sec (not that we shall ever need that unless we are doing real-time video editing, or future sample libraries begin growing astronomically in size!!).

Hope some of this proves useful to other members.


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## Selfinflicted (Nov 2, 2016)

URL said:


> Thanks, if you have to or wants to upgrade OS X-Logic is it possible to do so from apple store at the same way as you do with apple computers?



Re updates on Hacks. For OS, the general way people go about it is to wait for the very proficient hackers to patch things and then share on tonymacx86.com. This saves you the headache of having to do the hacking yourself. You just want for something to be proven stable, which is usually as fast as developers work out the kinks in their software, anyway. Every once in a while there is an issue where Apple doesn't support something and no one can figure a way around it. But, for most of the hacks I've built that has not been the case. I also only update OS every 2-3 years. And at $1000-1500 a built (less, if you're salvaging parts from another computer), I tend to just make a new hack at 3 years and make it as powerful as I can/need. If you're building a hack to the latest/latest stable OS, then you should be able to get 3 years no problem. It is not the individual applications that cause problems, usually, it is the OS.

I have a hack I made in 2012 running 10.8. I haven't seen anyone having gone past 10.8 on this motherboard. it is admittedly a very old board and an odd one to try hacking. It worked with the generic kit from tonymac right out of the gate (I honestly didn't expect it to). I'll likely rebuild this next year or turn it into a PC, now that VEP6 is truly bi-platform.

I have a problem on my Yosemite machines where they don't play video from the iTunes store. This is a known issue - I haven't looked into a solution in the last 6 months, but it isn't a big deal for me. Apple TV is $149 - problem solved. But, you can make purchases in iTunes and I haven't had any issue with the App Store.


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