# Kawai VPC1



## Baron Greuner (Apr 18, 2016)

Any of you using this keyboard. As I understand it, it's a master midi keyboard with no onboard sounds of it's own.
Any of you had and trouble with the keybed? Any knocking when pressing a key after a short period or is everything hunky dory?
What's the action like?


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## Jdiggity1 (Apr 18, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> As I understand it, it's a master midi keyboard with no onboard sounds of it's own.


Correct.


> What's the action like?


Superb.


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## TintoL (Apr 18, 2016)

That keybed is the best in the markey. Only probably the mp11 can be a bit better with the new action. Apparently is lighter.

To give you my experience. I used it for about 3 years and it felt like my steinway.it even smells like a piano with the wooden keys. Then my basement went on fire. All burned EXCEPT THE VPC WHICH WAS THE ONLY THING THAT SURVIVED. I am still replacing it. I checked again most of what is on the market and still is the best to me. The only downside is that it is too tall for a desk.

I hope that helps


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## mickeyl (Apr 18, 2016)

Do you solely use it for piano-type sounds or also for strings, woodwinds, percussion, etc.? If so, does the "weightedness" get somewhat in the way or is it still what you'd expect?


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## Jdiggity1 (Apr 18, 2016)

mickeyl said:


> Do you solely use it for piano-type sounds or also for strings, woodwinds, percussion, etc.? If so, does the "weightedness" get somewhat in the way or is it still what you'd expect?


To me, it is the closest emulation of a real grand piano I have played. Nothing beats it for piano work, but synths and organs certainly benefit from something more nimble.


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## Baron Greuner (Apr 18, 2016)

Cheesus Tinto, hope everything has worked out for you now and you are back on your feet after the fire, including the Steinway!

Yes gents, the action sounds good for the piano and you have also covered the next issue, which of course is what about other instrument sounds.


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## Baron Greuner (Apr 18, 2016)

I listened up to the MP-11 also but wasn't quite sure about the standard of the onboard sounds.


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## TintoL (Apr 18, 2016)

Baron, well,the whole scenario will actually work on my favor. Now, I didn't have my steinway in Canada. Ha-ha... I can not use it is in my home country. 

One thing is that I do not like using a whole 88 key for sequencing on a daw. Most drums and percussion is mapped to the far left lower octaves. And also, the VPC is so high that I got an adjustable height electrical desk to deal with the height.

Also, because the keybed is so piano like and heavy I get tired of making percussion lines for example.

I have a 60 key for daw and vpc1 for piano


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## Silence-is-Golden (Apr 18, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> I listened up to the MP-11 also but wasn't quite sure about the standard of the onboard sounds.


I have the "one step down" mp-7 and I think that some of the bread and butter sounds for keys are really good.
The synth, strings etc. are usually very generic and so they sound ok, but nothing like I would use.
The MP-11 has some reduced number of sounds but I believe the key section is similar to the mp-7

I played a bit with the keybed on the mp-11 which is indeed a step up, but also in weight and since I need my piano to move to gigs at times its too heavy.

Also: the mp-11 has pitch bend and mod wheel( and a very good precise one) that the mpc-1 lacks.

Choices, choices.


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## FredericBernard (Feb 17, 2020)

Hey Guys,

I feel stuck deciding to buy either the Kawaii VPC1, or another one like the Doepfer. I wish to record piano passages, possibly some rhodes and organ too, and also a lot of other VST (orchestral, synths).

Before I've used two different Numa Keyboards, but both ended up in having at least one key dead! (which is obviously a very bad circumstance for any pianist) So I rather wont buy anything Fatar again. Especially as also the workmanship seems to be only descent too - at least for such expensive hardware.

Any ideas?

Cheers!
-http://Frederic (Frederic)


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## Jdiggity1 (Feb 17, 2020)

FredericBernard said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I feel stuck deciding to buy either the Kawaii VPC1, or another one like the Doepfer. I wish to record piano passages, possibly some rhodes and organ too, and also a lot of other VST (orchestral, synths).
> 
> ...


VPC1 is fantastic as a piano keybed, but as a consequence it's a bit heavy for nimble organ/rhodes/synth passages. A doepfer/studiologic will be a better "all purpose" keyboard.


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## proxima (Feb 17, 2020)

FredericBernard said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I feel stuck deciding to buy either the Kawaii VPC1, or another one like the Doepfer. I wish to record piano passages, possibly some rhodes and organ too, and also a lot of other VST (orchestral, synths).
> 
> Before I've used two different Numa Keyboards, but both ended up in having at least one key dead! (which is obviously a very bad circumstance for any pianist) So I rather wont buy anything Fatar again. Especially as also the workmanship seems to be only descent too - at least for such expensive hardware.


My experience may be significantly worse than average, but for what it's worth, I went through one MP10 and one MP11 before getting one that didn't have stuck keys on arrival. The MP11 I have gets occasionally slow keys, and I just took it apart this weekend to replace the little teflon pads on two keys that get pushed aside over time, exposing a very sticky part of felt. One of the keys is still a little slow, and I suspect it may have some of the sticky material on the hammer part that I need to clean off.

Bottom line, I would not bet on having zero problems with the action over time. A surprising number of my slightly off keys feel fine after several months, probably the result of changing humidity. But I'm greatly disappointed that at any given time, I can point to a few keys that aren't quite right.


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## FredericBernard (Feb 18, 2020)

Thanks for your input guys! To update on the usage type; actually I use the piano like all the time for composing music etc, as most material (also symphonic) origins from piano improvisation. So yea, the action is quite important.

Still, my biggest issue with the VPC1 is that it's so super chunky! I mean the expensive Fatar Numa Keyboards are already more than heavy, but this one seems to win the cake!
Any ideas on that issue? Does it work for you to sort of "inbuild" it in your studio desk? Or are you even putting it on top of your desk, with leaving the pc display in the middle, and the mastering speakers left and right? Actually I would like to put my HS80M on top. I just saw a video of a guy who heavily changed his desk, so the "halve piano" can fit in nicely.

PS: if there should be more interesting ones than the keyboards already mentioned, please let me know. But IMO it has to be a master keyboard only. Plug and play around with inbuild instrument patches sounds like fun, but possibly isn't needed for a device that only plays in my studio, but please correct me if I should be wrong!

Thanks!
-Frederic


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## Matt Riley (Feb 18, 2020)

I have the MP-11 and it is the very best piano like action I have ever played on a keyboard. And I did a lot of research and played a lot of keyboards including Roland RD–2000, MP7, and VPC-1 before purchasing this one used. It has better action than some real pianos I have played. My only complaint is that it sometimes doesn’t send note-off messages to Logic when the same note is played again softly. As You can imagine, this can be really annoying.It’s also very heavy but that isn’t a problem because I don’t gig and it just sits on my desk.

Like I said, I tried the VPC-1 but I found the action to be too heavy.


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## ltmusic (Feb 18, 2020)

I have the VPC 1 and i also find that the action is too Heavy.


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## FredericBernard (Feb 18, 2020)

*@Matt Riley*

Do you refer to missing aftertouch? Would be surprising for a keyboard out of that price range.

Speaking off; I am afraid the MP11 is a bit overkill, resp. above my budget. Did you guys tried the Doepfer keyboards? Just wondering, as they have been praised a lot.

Cheers!
-Frederic


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## C-Wave (Feb 18, 2020)

ltmusic said:


> i also find that the ac





ltmusic said:


> I have the VPC 1 and i also find that the action is too Heavy.


It is intended to emulate the action on a Piano. It actually has a Grand Piano keys (same size and action). If you're not used to that you will feel its heavy.


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## Matt Riley (Feb 18, 2020)

FredericBernard said:


> *@Matt Riley*
> 
> Do you refer to missing aftertouch? Would be surprising for a keyboard out of that price range.
> 
> ...


No I wasn’t talking about the aftertouch but rather note-off signals. I don’t miss aftertouch at all though because I do not use it in my composition process.


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## Matt Riley (Feb 18, 2020)

C-Wave said:


> It is intended to emulate the action on a Piano. It actually has a Grand Piano keys (same size and action). If you're not used to that you will feel its heavy.


Every piano is different. Some have heavy action and some have light action. This one emulates a piano with heavy action. I didn’t like it at all personally and would never buy a piano with that heavy of an action. The MP11 on the other hand is perfect for me.


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## proxima (Feb 18, 2020)

Matt Riley said:


> No I wasn’t talking about the aftertouch but rather note-off signals. I don’t miss aftertouch at all though because I do not use it in my composition process.


Could this in any way be related to my problem here? I haven't had an issue with stuck-on notes, but I do sometimes have a problem with notes not being assigned an articulation id for reasons I haven't figured out yet.


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## Matt Riley (Feb 18, 2020)

proxima said:


> Could this in any way be related to my problem here? I haven't had an issue with stuck-on notes, but I do sometimes have a problem with notes not being assigned an articulation id for reasons I haven't figured out yet.


Wow that’s really weird! Yeah I wonder if it’s related. The keybed is fantastic but these MIDI issues are really annoying. Is yours an SE? Mine is the original mp11.


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## ltmusic (Feb 19, 2020)

C-Wave said:


> It is intended to emulate the action on a Piano. It actually has a Grand Piano keys (same size and action). If you're not used to that you will feel its heavy.



Yes its a good emulation..but far from the real thing. When you try to play fast repeated notes you can see that it doesn't react like a real piano. There is a VPC 1 modified version made by Ravensworks ..but it costs around 5799$!

For me the best digital keyboard that is close to a real piano is the Yamaha avant grand and the kawai novus.


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## proxima (Feb 19, 2020)

Matt Riley said:


> Wow that’s really weird! Yeah I wonder if it’s related. The keybed is fantastic but these MIDI issues are really annoying. Is yours an SE? Mine is the original mp11.


Mine is also the original.

Honestly, if I had to do over again, I'd try the NI 88 key keyboard. That said, I do like the built-in sounds on the MP11, as I can noodle around without loading anything up.


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## StillLife (Feb 19, 2020)

I used to own a vpc-1, very classy look and feel. Played nice, but touch was a bit heavy. I traded it a few months ago for the new Fantom 8 from Roland. Couldn't be happier with the touch of these keys. The first real piano feel I encountered.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Feb 19, 2020)

I chose the new Nord Grand. It has a Kawai action - probably derived from the MP-7, so not the same as the MP-11/VPC. But it is still excellent. It is very close to my Kawai RX-7 grand piano. The real grand is a smidge heavier in the action department, but I play as expressively on both. The form factor is a lot better than the VPC. I do take the Nord Grand for playing out, and it is not my main desk keyboard. That is a Yamaha P515. Also a great action, but much heavier feeling than the Nord Grand or my RX-7. But it fits on the desk well. And for composing pretty much anything will work. I have the RX-7 with an optical rail in it if I want to record MIDI from my real piano.


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## woodslanding (Feb 20, 2020)

FredericBernard said:


> *@Matt Riley*
> 
> Do you refer to missing aftertouch? Would be surprising for a keyboard out of that price range.
> 
> ...


I believe doepfer use fatar actions. From what I've read not all fatars are created equal, though.

I use a yamaha action, and I like it pretty well. It's lighter than the casios I've used for decades, but I can still get good dynamics out of it.... It seems to be pretty indestructable. I've broken way too many keys on fatar actions, but the casios were 100% solid--never a problem over several thousand gigs. I feel like the yamaha should hold up well also, but I haven't been using it that long....


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## PaulieDC (Feb 21, 2020)

I hear so many stories how the Doepfler needs key maintenance a lot. Ugh. One day an 88 key controller will land on my desk. I keep gravitating back to the StudioLogic SL88 Grand. It has 3-point contacts for good response when playing lightly, Fatar TP40 wood keybed, aftertouch, not too huge in size or weight, costs under a grand, and has this shelf system that can be attached to the unit to hold a laptop, etc, in my case, the PreSonus FaderPort 8 for CC sliders. That's why the odd little joysticks don't bother me. There's also been several reviews saying it has a good piano feel but still works well for playing in string and brass lines, etc. TBH, sounds too good to be true.


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## Jerry Growl (Feb 22, 2020)

I use the Kawai MP9500 since 2003, and yes the wooden keys and (pseudo-) hammer actions feels quite heavy. 

I hear you guys when you say 'ooh, no the keyboard action was too heavy', but I think you are missing the point of having a heavier action. Yes it takes a bit more effort. And yes it takes a bit longer to get your 'feel' on these keybeds. But I think there's a reward for choosing the 'hard way' (not entirely referencing the 'Conan the Barbarian' -way). There's just more meat to it. Also it's easier to adapt to a lighter keyboard if you are used to heavier, compared to the other way round.

I have really grown into this keyboard and it never bores me. I also have a Nord Stage 2 and I absolutely hate it's touch. I tried Nord 4 in a shop and liked it much better already.


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## ptram (Feb 22, 2020)

I feel the VPC-1 to have the same feel of a heavy piano action, like in some Schimmels I tried. I like it very much. I’ve no issue with ribattuto, even if how it works largely depends on the sample library.

The curved top is a shame, since it prevents one to put a controller firmly on top of it. A fake surface made with polystyrene, or even some folded cloth, could eventually solve this issue.

Paolo


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## FredericBernard (Feb 22, 2020)

ptram said:


> I feel the VPC-1 to have the same feel of a heavy piano action, like in some Schimmels I tried. I like it very much. I’ve no issue with ribattuto, even if how it works largely depends on the sample library.
> 
> The curved top is a shame, since it prevents one to put a controller firmly on top of it. A fake surface made with polystyrene, or even some folded cloth, could eventually solve this issue.
> 
> Paolo



Is the action of the VPC-1 comparable to a YAMAHA grand piano? If it is, the VPC-1 definitely doesn't do it for me. IMO nothing beats Steinway in this very regard, as they are neither too heavy, nor too light. One pro point on the other hand seems still that the piano action is very quiet, referring to the key noise.

So I am still seeking a master keyboard for around 1k USD (maybe with 1.3k USD as absolute maximum), but it should also fit onto a smaller studio desk, just as the VPC-1 seems to be so HUGE!

Monday I will check out the Native Instruments Kontrol S88 MK2 (live). Any experience with this one? I am kinda afraid that it will function maybe just a few years, due to the numerous buttons, faders, and display, while as I would expect it to work for 5-10 years, just like my Clavinova and the Fatar Numa I used to own.

Any ideas?

Best Regards!
-Frederic


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## ptram (Feb 22, 2020)

FredericBernard said:


> Is the action of the VPC-1 comparable to a YAMAHA grand piano? If it is, the VPC-1 definitely doesn't do it for me. IMO nothing beats Steinway in this very regard, as they are neither too heavy, nor too light.


In general, the VPC-1 seems heavier than all the Yamaha grand pianos I could try. As for the Steinways, I’ve tried many of them, and there is too much difference between them to find the "average Steinway". I would say that the VPC-1 is heavier than the heaviest of them.

Fatar-based instruments are very different, so I couldn't compare them to the VPC-1.

Paolo


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## STMICHAELS (Feb 22, 2020)

FredericBernard said:


> Is the action of the VPC-1 comparable to a YAMAHA grand piano? If it is, the VPC-1 definitely doesn't do it for me. IMO nothing beats Steinway in this very regard, as they are neither too heavy, nor too light. One pro point on the other hand seems still that the piano action is very quiet, referring to the key noise.
> 
> So I am still seeking a master keyboard for around 1k USD (maybe with 1.3k USD as absolute maximum), but it should also fit onto a smaller studio desk, just as the VPC-1 seems to be so HUGE!
> 
> ...



Frederic this is my first post here, however I am also looking at Weighted Controllers/Digital Pianos.

I wish the Kawai VPC-1 had the upgraded action similar to the MP11SE with the longer wooden keyes.

Let us know your thoughts on the Kontrol S88 MK2.

Seems like 88 weighted controllers is not being updated as regular or not as much emphasis given toward it. It's a pity as we have so many good piano VST's now.

I would think that we would have seen a Kawai VPC-2 or a Kawai MP12 by now. Even the new Roland A88 MKII and RD88 which I was very excited announced at NAMM 2020 only to find out that it still has the older keybed PHA4 VS the PHA 50 and the Studiologic SL has been out for a while too.

Wish there was a new weighted controller that was of good quality that is more updated with better keybed similar to the Kawai VPC in the $1000 - $1500 range. Seems like there is a VOID in this area. Thus now looking at some Digital Pianos.


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## proxima (Feb 22, 2020)

STMICHAELS said:


> Wish there was a new weighted controller that was of good quality that is more updated with better keybed similar to the Kawai VPC in the $1000 - $1500 range. Seems like there is a VOID in this area. Thus now looking at some Digital Pianos.


Yeah, I'm not sure about the market there at all. The stage piano market likes its built-in sounds. The 88 key weighted market now has Native Instruments, Doepfler, and various Fatar-based keyboards. 

I'm always surprised at how many professional composers use synth-action, inexpensive controllers.


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## STMICHAELS (Feb 22, 2020)

proxima said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure about the market there at all. The stage piano market likes its built-in sounds. The 88 key weighted market now has Native Instruments, Doepfler, and various Fatar-based keyboards.
> 
> I'm always surprised at how many professional composers use synth-action, inexpensive controllers.



proxima good point. I don't think manufacturers see this as a market to target, however we know many use VST's in their studios. I like the MP11SE for example but I am paying for all the on board sounds etc. I dont want all that.

Just want a great quality weighted action controller where the cost is in equilibrium with my needs for VST Piano (not pay for on-board sounds) However Digital Pianos have the great keys but comes at a higher cost and has the sounds.

Also since some of these keyboards are over 4-5 years old like the VPC-1 I want to buy some newer model that can keep me going for the next 6 years as I don't purchase oft. If I bought a VPC-1 when it just came out I probably today would feel that I got my money's worth.

So unfortunately I am looking at the Digital Piano route to get that good keybed. We are spoilt!


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## proxima (Feb 22, 2020)

STMICHAELS said:


> proxima good point. I don't think manufacturers see this as a market to target, however we know many use VST's in their studios. I like the MP11SE for example but I am paying for all the on board sounds etc. I dont want all that.


Without speakers, I can't imagine the headphone, audio out, and fairly basic on-board sounds adds more than $100-250 to the cost, and $200-500 to the retail price. I get that the MP11 is a lot more than the VPC-1, but there's more than just the sounds there.


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## Vik (Feb 23, 2020)

VPC1 is (was) a little more heavy than my ideal keyboard, but that seems to have changed after 3-4 years of using it (or I have gotten used to it). 

I wish it came with two cc faders, and that the leftmost pedal (it has three pedals) only sent out sustain on/off, and not all the levels between 0 and 127 (the end result doesn’t look good in Logic), so I use the middle pedal for sustain. 

I also agree that it’s just a little to tall, but I use it with a chair with adjustable height. 

Regarding comparison with Steinway Grands: forget it. But a good Steinway will cost you the price of 150 VPCs. Bottom line for me was that it was the best solution I could get for that price when I bought it.


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## FredericBernard (Feb 23, 2020)

Some excellent points here!



proxima said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure about the market there at all. The stage piano market likes its built-in sounds. The 88 key weighted market now has Native Instruments, Doepfler, and various Fatar-based keyboards.
> 
> I'm always surprised at how many professional composers use synth-action, inexpensive controllers.



Yes, a plethora of third party master keyboards use the Fatar action - including the Native Instruments one (not sure on the Doepfher one??!)! But as there are so many different actions/keybeds from Fatar, one quickly gets confused. They are all a bit different.

Back then the white Fatar Numa was fantastic, and it lasted for almost 10 years + it looked fantastic! Then there was a broken key, and a bit later all keys weren't functioning anymore. The black Fatar Numa I bought after this had the same problems, but after maybe 3 years...and the workmanship was well...not really professional. E.g. some keys were lower than others. And of course there's the problem of midi controls (pitch wheel), which are ridiculously hard to reach, lol. Great keyboards though!!

What do you guys think of this list? https://www.amazona.de/charts/keys/masterkeyboards/
Very surprised here that the Arturia (never heard of them before) took the first place! 

Cheers!
-Frederic


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Feb 25, 2020)

I thought about buying a VPC1 too this year and decided against it, because there are many reports of uneven keys and action. And the pedal that the VPC1 is shipped with is low quality (but that could be exchanged).

What i did now, is just using my Yamaha 675 via Midi  That keybed is much better (for me) and it has no flaws (again for me). There were no real options, i have looked at options from Doepfer to Kawai MP's and else. 
The Yamaha CP88 would have been the best option for me if i wanted a smaller solution, but not too far from its price one could get a 675..


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## FredericBernard (Aug 1, 2020)

STMICHAELS said:


> Frederic this is my first post here, however I am also looking at Weighted Controllers/Digital Pianos.
> 
> I wish the Kawai VPC-1 had the upgraded action similar to the MP11SE with the longer wooden keyes.
> 
> ...Let us know your thoughts on the Kontrol S88 MK2.



Just a little heads-up: I ended buying the S88 for the price of around 1k a few months ago! I really love the key action.

However the downside - beside the high price tag, is that the keyboard seems to be quite fragile. So when it arrived already one of the lights (each key has one, similar to the Clavinova from YAMAHA I used to play on as a kid) was broken. Also the keyboard is still heavy, but certainly not nearly as much as the Kawai master keyboard mentioned earlier. Just generally it isn't as chunky which is great, but if you need a master keyboard for live performances I guess Doepfer should do the best job. 

...but still, for me the action is the most important part, and in this regard it is almost perfect for me!

Hope this helps!

Cheers!
-Frederic


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