# Large orchestral template in Logic



## stonzthro (Mar 27, 2010)

Hi. I've been wrestling with this issue for some time now and am wondering - how do other Logic users deal with large templates? I read in Jay's LP8 book about setting up Folders but the problem is the regions don't show up in other screensets. I'd like to be able to work more quickly but I feel I'm just not there yet with managing my template.

Thanks,
Dan


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## gsilbers (Mar 27, 2010)

do you have anything in specific besides folders? 

and yes, i wished folder where like in nuendo where you can see whats inside or like in DP which are chunks.


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## stonzthro (Mar 27, 2010)

Well, I hate having to scroll all the way down the template to get to the strings! Right now I have my folders set up like this:
Main Instrumentation - stuff I use all the time
WW
Brass
Percussion
Strings
Synths

Each folder is assigned to a screen set so I can jump to each one quickly, which works well until I need to copy something or want to compare parts, then it becomes a little less user-friendly. I'm just wondering what everyone else is doing to deal with this problem.


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## gsilbers (Mar 27, 2010)

hmm lets compare notes because i have set with folders too and hide the other tracks and put that arrange page (with folders only) to the right. so i select the folder of brass and the main page goes down to the brasses. 

if its the same then i also have similar issue. specially that logic doesnt have that feature like in pro tools that wont let you change the region to the sides if u copy or move and hold down option. so you can drag and drop carelessly and fast w/o the region moving out of time. 
but yes, its a pita in logic. 

i guess suggestions would be 

you can copy paiste the region. 
copy region, select folder that will scroll down to the other track and paist. 

or select 2 regions holding down ò¬°   Ë…Ž¬°   Ë…¬°   Ë…¬°   Ë…‘¬°   Ë…’¬°   Ë…“¬°   Ë…”¬°   Ë…•¬±   Ë…–¬±   Ë…—¬±   Ë…˜¬±   Ë…™¬±   Ë…š¬±   Ë…›¬±   Ë…œ¬±


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## synthetic (Mar 28, 2010)

I use the Hide feature to hide unused tracks, which is especially helpful during mixing. (Does anyone know if there's a "hide all unused tracks" command?)


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## Ashermusic (Mar 28, 2010)

synthetic @ Sun Mar 28 said:


> I use the Hide feature to hide unused tracks, which is especially helpful during mixing. (Does anyone know if there's a "hide all unused tracks" command?)



No, Jeff, but that is a good feature request that I will pass on.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 28, 2010)

Another way to deal with the large template - the way I have Logic set up* is to load everything in the Environment, but only create tracks when you need them. There's a preference for not linking tracks when you create Environment objects somewhere in the Project settings, and I keep forgetting where it is.


* By the way, Jay, I forgot to mention that this was why I didn't know about the + sign in the mixer at the bottom of the Arrange window: I never use it.


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## dinerdog (Mar 28, 2010)

Anyone have any screenshots to share? TIA


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## synthetic (Mar 28, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Sun Mar 28 said:


> synthetic @ Sun Mar 28 said:
> 
> 
> > I use the Hide feature to hide unused tracks, which is especially helpful during mixing. (Does anyone know if there's a "hide all unused tracks" command?)
> ...



While you're at it, I could use a separator like DP has. It would be nice to divide my 16 tracks of violins from my 10 tracks of violas, etc etc.


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## JJP (Mar 28, 2010)

synthetic @ Sun Mar 28 said:


> While you're at it, I could use a separator like DP has. It would be nice to divide my 16 tracks of violins from my 10 tracks of violas, etc etc.



I use a track with no output for this.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 29, 2010)

So do I. And you can make them a different color as well.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 29, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Mar 28 said:


> Another way to deal with the large template - the way I have Logic set up* is to load everything in the Environment, but only create tracks when you need them. There's a preference for not linking tracks when you create Environment objects somewhere in the Project settings, and I keep forgetting where it is.
> 
> 
> * By the way, Jay, I forgot to mention that this was why I didn't know about the + sign in the mixer at the bottom of the Arrange window: I never use it.



It is not a Preference (global) it is a Project Setting. It is in the Audio project settings and is called "Automatic Management of Channel Strips.' When checked, deleting a track from the Arrange window's track list will also delete it from the project. When unchecked, it does not.


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## stonzthro (Mar 29, 2010)

You guys are awesome! I never thought of using the Hide feature- or Nick's approach of just not having the tracks in the arrange.

Both much better solutions than folders for my approach.

Thank you so much!


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## synthetic (Mar 29, 2010)

JJP @ Sun Mar 28 said:


> synthetic @ Sun Mar 28 said:
> 
> 
> > While you're at it, I could use a separator like DP has. It would be nice to divide my 16 tracks of violins from my 10 tracks of violas, etc etc.
> ...



I've tried that, but the speaker with a red X on it is distracting for me. And you can't change that icon as far as I can tell. I've also color coded but it's subtle. I like the way DP does this in the Cinesamples demo videos, they're all in subfolders or something. The best would be a heavy horizontal line divider that not only divides the tracks but extends through the arrange window. Currently the arrange window is a big sea of grey (especially on a 30" monitor) with no vertical reference.


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2010)

synthetic @ Mon Mar 29 said:


> JJP @ Sun Mar 28 said:
> 
> 
> > synthetic @ Sun Mar 28 said:
> ...



u can add grid lines and white background. yuk!
but u prob already knew that


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 29, 2010)

> It is not a Preference (global) it is a Project Setting. It is in the Audio project settings and is called "Automatic Management of Channel Strips.' When checked, deleting a track from the Arrange window's track list will also delete it from the project. When unchecked, it does not.




And the reverse of that is why it's relevant to what I was suggesting: you create channel strips in the Environment without having a track for each one. Instead you load channel strips with what you want in your template (whether they're V.I.s on the local machine, external MIDI objects, or whatever), and then when you want to use something, you drag it into the Arrange window and a track is created automatically.

You can also click on the object with the MIDI Thru tool - I have command/click set up - to assign it to the track that's selected in the Arrange window. That lets you try different things such as different articulations. It helps to create a screenset with a shrunken Arrange window on one side and this Environment layer on the other.

I treat loaded instruments as part of my custom mixer, with inputs from slaves (including VE Pro), auxes with reverbs set up, outputs, and blank channel strips of various kinds set up to load other instruments.

By the way, I do have some tracks set up, just not one for every single instrument in my template.


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## stonzthro (Mar 29, 2010)

You know what would be really nice is if the 'Hide' feature didn't function globally. I could open a screenset and hide certain parameters, then open another and hide different parameters. This would be a very useful feature!


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## JJP (Mar 29, 2010)

+1 for Nick's environment idea. I use this as well.


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## stonzthro (Mar 29, 2010)

So how does this work when using a multi instrument? Do you just have to remember what you put in which channels? 

Am I a dunce for asking this?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 29, 2010)

No you're not a dunce.

To be honest, the only multi instruments I have set up are LASS in VE Pro, and I have tracks already set up for those. (Actually that's not true - I have some custom stuff set up in a multi as well.)

However, you could create MIDI instruments for each used MIDI channel and cable them to the channel strip containing the multi instrument. They can be assigned icons and given descriptive names. Then you could use the MIDI instruments as your pallet, and if you want you can use separate screensets for each group of pallets.

The thing about Logic is that there are many ways of using it, so you have to experiment and find what makes you comfortable.


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## gsilbers (Mar 29, 2010)

i said it and ill say it again, wished that logic had folders functions like in nuendo or DP. 

or have like that triangle thingy that collapses the midi parameters on the inspector (channel strip on the arrange) 
to open or collapse tracks inside a folder.


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## whinecellar (Mar 31, 2010)

Howdy - just stumbled on this thread. Template tweaking is an ongoing experiment for me, and I too have been BEGGING my friends at Apple for drop-down folders for years...

Folders are a fact of life for me since I like to have all my go-to stuff ready at all times (and I'd spend my life scrolling otherwise).

For the last few years I've settled into a system that works really well: my main instrument groups are in their own folders and my main 40" screen shows an Arrange overview while my smaller screen off to the side is linked to show the selected folder's contents (or vice-versa). This way I always see the top level of my project on one screen and details on the other (and can drag/drop between them).

What really speeds things up is having dedicated key commands for "go into/out of folder" - that's even faster than dedicated screensets for each folder. But of course with two monitors, the contents of any folder are always shown on the other.

With some careful planning, you can navigate even the largest templates with relative ease. My current template contains 10 folders and about 500 instruments - all very easy to get to. Only my string & brass folders require scrolling, but only if nothing's hidden (I do hide lesser-used articulations).

Attached pics are from my previous template (I've made a lot of refinements since then). 1 is the top level arrange folders, 2 was my Symphobia folder before I split it into the other instrument groups. Hope this gives you some ideas!

Happy template building


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## whinecellar (Mar 31, 2010)

> I use a track with no output for this.
> 
> I've tried that, but the speaker with a red X on it is distracting for me.



You could create a dummy "track separator" object in the Environment, roll your own custom icon for it (heck, even a blank 128 x 128 .png) and use that...


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## Orchestrada (Oct 9, 2013)

Jim, this looks awesome! But I have only managed to create folders with tracks that has been recorded and this containing one or several regions. How do you make folders with "empty" tracks? And how do you manage to have 500 midi tracks when the maximum in Logic is 255?


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## whinecellar (Oct 9, 2013)

Orchestrada @ Wed Oct 09 said:


> I have only managed to create folders with tracks that have been recorded...How do you make folders with "empty" tracks?



The regions you see in my template above are just empty "dummy" regions; you can create them using the pencil tool in the Arrange window. They accomplish several things:

1. color coding
2. info/short notes
3. since they're all at bar 1, it makes "bounce in place" render everything from bar 1 for quick exporting to other DAWs
4. it allows the track to be packed into a folder even when nothing's recorded on that track yet




Orchestrada @ Wed Oct 09 said:


> And how do you manage to have 500 midi tracks when the maximum in Logic is 255?



The 255 max is only for audio tracks/instruments overall - but each instrument can be multitimbral. I have 20+ VE Pro instances in my template, each of which has 16 MIDI channels; this in addition to 100+ EXS24 instruments, several Spectrasonics instruments (each of those are multitimbral too), and so on..


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## Orchestrada (Oct 11, 2013)

whinecellar @ 10th October said:


> Orchestrada @ Wed Oct 09 said:
> 
> 
> > I have only managed to create folders with tracks that have been recorded...How do you make folders with "empty" tracks?
> ...



So do you then use keyswitching to change between articulations? Don't even know if my question can be understood, since I'm fairly new to how VE Pro works. I would like to see every single articulation I need from every single library I choose visually on separate tracks. Is that impossible in Logic? Are one "forced" to use keyswitching and VE Pro to make Logic run smootly on multiple libraries/articulations?


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## whinecellar (Oct 11, 2013)

I do use keyswitching with libraries that support it, and I've also made some Kontakt scripts for some libraries that don't. You could certainly have a track for every articulation in Logic (I did that years ago), but your track list would be a mile long if you have more than a few libraries


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## Orchestrada (Oct 11, 2013)

I'm ready and motivated for trying out the mile long tactic, even though I might have a change of heart eventually..  But again I don't know how to reach a mile in Logic since it "only" allows me to insert 255 software instrument tracks..


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## whinecellar (Oct 11, 2013)

Remember, each software instrument can be multitimbral (16 channels each). You'd run out of horsepower long before reaching 255 x 16 channels each  

What you want to do is use VE Pro if at all possible and load up 16-channel multi's. You could also take advantage of Kontakt banks & program changes to keep your track list manageable...


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