# WSJ -- safety advice for visiting the store



## JohnG (Apr 1, 2020)

http://online.wsj.com/public/us



*Safety Advice If You Must Visit the Grocery Store*
*Deliveries are safer during the coronavirus pandemic, but sometimes a store visit is unavoidable. Here are the precautions to take.*
Sumathi ReddyMarch 27, 2020 3:15 pm ET

*Doctors recommend taking precautions at the grocery store.*

With communities across the country virtually shut down, there is still one place nearly everyone needs to visit at some point: the grocery store. Experts say deliveries are safer, but sometimes it can be hard to get one scheduled right away. So if you must go to the store, what’s the best way to navigate the aisles and crowds? We asked the experts.

Try to minimize visits to the store. “The biggest risk factor is really being around other people,” says Benjamin Chapman, a professor of food safety at North Carolina State University.

That’s because the novel coronavirus is spread largely through droplets from nearby people coughing or sneezing. If you must go, maintain a buffer around yourself and try to go at off-hours. (The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html?mod=article_inline (recommends a 6-foot buffer), while the World Health Organization says 3 feet will suffice). 

It’s hard to maintain a distance from cashiers, so use self-checkout when possible and use hand sanitizer when you’re done.

*Should I wear a mask or gloves to the grocery store?*

Most experts say a mask isn’t necessary and even recommend against it unless it helps serve as a cue from touching your face. The only masks that protect people from the virus are the N95 respirator masks, which should be reserved for health-care workers and need to be properly fitted when used, doctors say.

Gloves don’t help much if you’re going to touch your eyes, nose or mouth with them. Rather, experts say, wash your hands with soap and water before going out and when coming home, and use hand sanitizer when out. If you use gloves, choose disposable ones and throw them away as soon as you get home. 

Try not to use your phone when in the store. If you do, clean it when you get home.

*Should I bring wipes with me? What should I wipe down?*

Dr. Chapman says many grocery stores are providing shoppers with wipes. If not, it’s a good idea to bring your own, mainly to wipe the grocery cart. Just make sure the wipes are on the list registered with the Environmental Protection Agency. 

Wipes can also be used for other high-touch areas in the store like freezer handles or tongs used in self-serve bins.

*Any other precautions I should take?*

Try to avoid exchanging money or credit cards with the cashier. Use a credit-card reader when possible.

*Share Your Thoughts


If I’m a senior or have an underlying medical condition, should I try to go to the store during special seniors hours?*

People over 65 and those who have medical conditions that put them at greater risk of hospitalization and serious illness should avoid going to the grocery store, if possible. Try to order groceries online or have a family member or friend deliver them while taking precautions. If you must visit the store, go during hours reserved for seniors, when the store is likely to be less crowded.

*When I get home, what should I do with any paper or plastic bags or packaging?*

Though there have been no documented cases of transmission of the novel coronavirus through food packaging, a recent NEJM study found that the virus can live on cardboard for up to 24 hours and on hard surfaces such as plastic and stainless steel for two to three days. But experts noted that the studies were done in a laboratory with high doses of the virus, so it’s unknown if in real life the virus can be transmitted that way. Most likely if someone were to sneeze or cough on a cardboard container, the virus would degrade more quickly due to environmental factors, such as sunlight. 

The study didn’t look at paper or plastic bags. Still, James Lloyd-Smith, a professor in the department of ecology and evolutionary biology at the University of California, Los Angeles, and one of the study’s authors, said if someone else handled the materials recently it’s a good idea to discard them and wash your hands. 

But experts say wiping down cereal boxes and other packages isn’t necessary. “Use the wipes when you need them,” says Dr. Chapman. If you’re home you can easily wash your hands. “That’s going to reduce your risk as much if not more than trying to wipe everything down,” he says.

Randy Worobo, a professor of food microbiology at Cornell University, says instead of being preoccupied with wiping down packaging and containers, focus on washing your hands. “It’s much better to treat your hands, wash your hands, rather than dealing with all the surfaces,” says Dr. Worobo. 



In cities around the world, balcony singing, workouts and other improvised events can fill the silence of empty streets. Here's how developing creative ways to connect with others is helping some people cope with coronavirus quarantines. Photo: Alberico/Fotogramma/Ropi/Zuma Press
*What about food? Can I get Covid-19 from eating contaminated food?*

Your mouth is a gateway to both your respiratory system (your lungs) and your digestive system (stomach). Respiratory viruses like the novel coronavirus are believed to enter the body and reproduce through the respiratory tract, not the digestive tract. 

Experts say it is possible that if the virus rubs off from any object to the inside of your mouth, it could infect you if it goes into your respiratory system. But there doesn’t appear to be any risk of infection via your digestive tract, according to the https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html?mod=article_inline (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and the Agriculture Department. 

Scientists are still studying the virus, so there is always the chance they could find otherwise. But doctors say getting the virus through ingestion of contaminated food seems unlikely. Gregory Poland, director of the Mayo Clinic’s Vaccine Research Group in Rochester, Minn., speculates that the gastric acid in the stomach would kill it. “My own speculation is that the GI route would be very low likelihood compared to known and efficient methods of infection,” he says.

To be extra cautious, you could heat food in the oven or microwave, though this hasn’t been specifically studied so it’s unclear if there’s a particular length of time needed.

*What if someone coughs or sneezes into your food?*

If you touch virus particles on raw food and then touch your nose, eyes or mouth, that is a potential source of transmission. But experts note that is very unlikely. To be vigilant, thoroughly wash your hands with soap and water, and don’t eat your food with your hands.

*Do raw fruits and vegetables need to be washed with anything special?*

Experts urge people not to wash fruits and vegetables with anything but water. The chemicals on wipes and chlorine solutions especially can be dangerous—don’t ingest those. 

*Will my clothes be contaminated when I come back from the store? Do I need to change my clothes as soon as I get home? *

There’s no evidence that the virus can be transmitted through clothing, but it hasn’t been specifically studied. The good news is it can be killed by doing laundry. So if you were in a grocery store where people near you were coughing, it’s a good idea to remove your clothes when you get home. Don’t shake clothing. Place it in your laundry hamper. The https://vi-control.net/community/safari-reader%3A//www.wsj.com/articles/hyperlink%20https%3A//www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/cleaning-disinfection.html?mod=article_inline (CDC recommends) laundering contaminated clothes in the warmest appropriate water setting and drying them thoroughly. 

*Can I get the virus from food handlers who don’t wash their hands well after going to the bathroom?*

The CDC says there are no known cases of the novel coronavirus being spread through the fecal-oral route, which is a common route of transmission for stomach viruses like the norovirus. 

But a https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(20)30282-1/pdf?mod=article_inline (recent study) that hasn’t been peer reviewed yet found the virus in the stool of some patients. This route of transmission remains unknown, and experts say it’s unlikely to be contributing significantly to the pandemic.

*Write to *Sumathi Reddy at [email protected]


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## patrick76 (Apr 1, 2020)

I think the recommendation to not wear a mask is the type of thing that gives the conspiracy theorists the window they want to make blanket generalizations about how we cannot trust the people tasked with our safety. There's a shortage of them. Medical personel need them. That's the reason they aren't recommending them to the general public. For the most part though they are quite reluctant to say that, instead talking about things like experts generally agree they aren't needed, or that masks cannot block all of the virus, etc. 

Also, the WHO says 3 feet is an adequate distance? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...esearcher-lydia-bourouiba-27-feet/5091526002/
I don't know what the actual distance is to stay safe, but personally I am going to stay farther away than 3 feet from people.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 1, 2020)

Dr Fauci said yesterday that the 27 foot thing is a case where someone literally sneezes at the top of their lungs. Very extreme case. He made a point that while it is remotely possible someone could do that, it’s also unlikely and 6 feet is enough space practically speaking for a reasonable level of safety. 

in my experience people at the grocery store are not always giving 6 feet.


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## synergy543 (Apr 1, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Dr Fauci said yesterday that the 27 foot thing is a case where someone literally sneezes at the top of their lungs.


Most likely a trumpet player.


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## labornvain (Apr 1, 2020)

The claim that masks not only don't help, but may actually increase your risk of infection is just a blatant, transparent fucking lie. Delete this idiocy.

I understand that there's a shortage of masks. But this is not the way to solve that problem.


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## Craig Duke (Apr 3, 2020)

labornvain said:


> The claim that masks not only don't help, but may actually increase your risk of infection is just a blatant, transparent fucking lie. Delete this idiocy.
> 
> I understand that there's a shortage of masks. But this is not the way to solve that problem.



Don't get a false sense of security for yourself or your ability to asymptotically spread the virus with a DIY mask. Stay away from people whenever possible. Plenty of Americans still think it's "just the flu."

"Researchers at Cambridge University tested a wide range of household materials for homemade masks." 

Note that COVIN-19 is about 120 nanometers (.12 micrometers). See .02 micron graph in this article.









Best Materials for Making DIY Face Masks - Smart Air


As a last resort, DIY masks provide more protection than nothing. Researchers tested household materials. These two materials captured the most particles.



smartairfilters.com


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 3, 2020)

The main point of wearing masks is to stop the spreading from yourself to others. And any old rag over your face will drastically reduce the aMount of water you are spraying all over surfaces wherever you go and help to keep your hands off your face also.

What people don’t realize about Asia is that when you see a lot of Asians on tv with face masks on, they are not like paranoid Americans thinking they are making themselves safer. They are doing it as a courtesy to avoid infecting others. And it does help!

mat the grocery store wearing even a ski mask will keep your hands off your face while you’re shopping. Wash your hands when you get home.

It’s well documented now that the covid cases are not generally spreading through the air when social distancing is engaged. It might if you have a lot of people in small enclosed space or near a ventilator and an infected person. In that case then a cheap homemade mask is absolutely not enough you need an N95 properly fitted and sealed mask on your face. But most of us should be avoiding that situation to begin with


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 3, 2020)

I agree about avoiding all other people though. 30-50% of my friends are either not taking this seriously or are not diligent in how they are behaving. Do not trust that anyone you know or don’t know is safe to be around.


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## Kevin Fortin (Apr 3, 2020)

"Trust no one."

I just ordered a dozen bandanas last night. 

If only the Feds could mail testing kits to everyone so we would know who already had the virus, and who is currently shedding.


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## W Ackerman (Apr 3, 2020)

Kevin Fortin said:


> If only the Feds could mail testing kits to everyone so we would know who already had the virus, and who is currently shedding.



Even if logistically feasible, the currently available tests have false negative rates estimated to be as high as 33%.


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## Kevin Fortin (Apr 3, 2020)

W Ackerman said:


> Even if logistically feasible, the currently available tests have false negative rates estimated to be as high as 33%.



Yeah, I was just dreaming out loud. I read that it's much easier to test for having been exposed to the virus than to test for currently shedding the virus. Plus, as you say, we don't have accurate tests for just exposure, and not even enough of those for everyone.


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## dzilizzi (Apr 3, 2020)

Craig Duke said:


> Don't get a false sense of security for yourself or your ability to asymptotically spread the virus with a DIY mask. Stay away from people whenever possible. Plenty of Americans still think it's "just the flu."
> 
> "Researchers at Cambridge University tested a wide range of household materials for homemade masks."
> 
> ...


You can also use something like a t-shirt with a furnace filter. You want a MERV-13 filter. Anything less will let the virus through. Also, make sure you set it in the right way. One way allows you to breathe in, the other way, doesn't and will only protect others from you. This is from my sister, the RN. The biggest problem is it needs to be fitted or it won't work well. Other problem is, you have to be able to wash the mask or toss it after each use.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 3, 2020)

Kevin Fortin said:


> Yeah, I was just dreaming out loud. I read that it's much easier to test for having been exposed to the virus than to test for currently shedding the virus. Plus, as you say, we don't have accurate tests for just exposure, and not even enough of those for everyone.




We don't have that many test kits available yet


We don't have the capacity to process that many test kits


The test kits are evolving and they are coming out with better tests as every day goes by


The accuracy is such that nobody should trust a negative result. There are enough false negatives, that everyone should still assume that they might be carrying the virus. Eventually they may have better tests that are more accurate and/or tests for antibodies which could let us know that not only are we not shedding the virus anymore, but we're immune to it. Those tests, when they become available, will be more useful to allow people to get back to work safely. We're not there yet and it will be quite a while before they are generally available for everyone to take as they want.


Mainly the current testing is for the health professionals that are trying to track where the virus is moving and where resources need to allocated, which areas need to go on stricter lockdown, etc.. The positive results of sick people tell them a lot. So that's where they are focusing hte test kits right now. People with symptoms. Everyone else should specifically NOT try to burden the system by taking needless tests when they aren't feeling sick, just to try to find out if they don't have it, which won't even be a 100% sure thing. Just stay home, be safe, get tested if you get sick. Later one, we'll be able to do larger scale testing of people to find out who has already gotten it and can move on immune in life and society will start to open back up, but we're not there yet.


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## MartinH. (Apr 3, 2020)

W Ackerman said:


> Even if logistically feasible, the currently available tests have false negative rates estimated to be as high as 33%.



Today I've heard there's false info going around regarding this because not everyone is applying the tests correctly. The _test _is fine - theoretically. But the _virus _simply isn't in the same place over the whole time of the infection. In the cases where it was false-negative they seemed to be testing swabs from the throat on patients where the virus already moved to the lung and was no longer present as a throat infection.




By the way (not meant as a reply to you, just in general), they estimate the actual deaths from covid 19 to be _higher _than the reported numbers, because there are cases that were likely caused by it, but tested negative or weren't able to confirm post mortem.
So the theory that the stats were inflated from people "who would have died anyway" seems to be incorrect, based on what german scientists estimate right now.




Kevin Fortin said:


> "Trust no one."
> 
> I just ordered a dozen bandanas last night.
> 
> If only the Feds could mail testing kits to everyone so we would know who already had the virus, and who is currently shedding.



Apparently boxes are already getting opened in transit and searched for masks and gloves, it's getting ridiculous. Happened to a person I know, I hope it's not common yet.

A new study seems to suggest that a fairly large percentage of transmissions is by people who don't have symptoms yet or at all. So everyone should wear masks (or scarves, bandanas, whatever), to protect others. If all did that, it should have noticable impact. I'm in favor of making them mandatory in public.

And apparently the social distancing in Germany works and brought the basic reproduction number of the virus down to 1. That means everyone who gets it, only spreads it to one other person on average, no more exponential growth. Now we need to go further and get it down to considerably below 1, so that we can get the case numbers low enough again to do detailed tracing and analysis, like in the first days of the outbreak, and slowly start the economy back up.
Plans for using apps to trace potential risk contacts also sound very promising. In Germany that app would have to adhere to our very strict data privacy restrictions and it would be voluntary to use. My smartphone has no sim card, so I'm not sure it would work, but if I understood it correctly, it works via scanning for other devices via bluetooth, so maybe it works and can cache all the online stuff for later when I'm back in my home wifi again.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 3, 2020)

I feel that in a few years they will look back and say that that mortality rate was around 5%. Not only because of what you just said about people dying from other causes, made to happen because of COVID, and they never made it to the hospital, etc... No true biopsies to find out. But also...the death rate is a trailing indicator. People die a few weeks after infection. They keep looking at the data in terms of the current number of deaths vs the current total infected so far, but it really should be the total dead so far vs the total infected a few weeks prior. When done that way, the numbers are considerably higher...even higher then 5% actually. We don't know the mortality rate for sure until this is all over.

the highest death rates will be happening after the peak actually.


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