# Rossini - Barber from Seville - Digital Mockup - Orchestral Version



## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 4, 2018)

Yo..this one was incredibly hard..I have to say, but I have done a first complete version of the whole track and I would like to have some feedback ecspecially from those who are listening to such music more or on a regular base. But everybody is welcome to join. I worked 3 weeks on that track, almost every day. Well..I hope Rossini will not kill me. I tried to do this version with the most respect to this composition as I can.

Here we go:



RAW VERSION:


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## novaburst (Jan 4, 2018)

Nice work on this piece @AlexanderSchiborr it was certainly uplifting and I did feel the mood and vibe through the whole piece, standing apluase to that,

You managed to capture the whole essence of the piece right to the very end.

Thanks for you time and thanks for posting


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## Rob (Jan 4, 2018)

I think you did a great job... I like woodwinds a lot, brass also, spiccato violins but not so much legato. They sound farther away and blurred when doing agile melodies. Tempi are generally slower than I'm used to (played this live in orchestra as a flutist back in the day).I have this strange feeling from 2:42 on that something strange is happening to tempo, some instability, don't know... like it very much overall, a very pleasing sound and space.


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## Paul T McGraw (Jan 4, 2018)

@AlexanderSchiborr great work. You should really be proud of this. Very few VI artists are capable of doing a credible midi-performance of a classical work, but you are one of them. The emotion of the Overture is fabulous. Love the horns and the woodwinds. You know I appreciate your work.

OK, as a classical music lover (that is all I listen to, except some film music) the distance from the musicians is a bit jarring. In a typical classical recording the listener is on about row 8 of a symphonic hall. This sounds more like a recording studio with the listener very close. Not a bad thing just different.

I agree with @Rob about the tempo. It sort of falls apart at 2:40 or so. But you recover. My biggest issue is with the strings. Hard to describe the issue, but I think it is too much close mic. Almost as if I was sitting in the middle of the violin section. But there is at least a little distance to the winds and the horns. It just nags at my ears. 

I had to dig to come up with something to give you detailed feedback. I really like it. Especially the winds and horns. You are incredibly talented. Thanks for posting this. What were you using?


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## jon wayne (Jan 4, 2018)

Alexander,nothing but praise here! I A/Bd yours with a real orchestra and forgot which was yours at times.Great job! What strings? What do you do for depth in your mix?


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## JBacal (Jan 4, 2018)

Very nice work! I enjoyed listening.

Actually the soundstage works well for me. But I tend to like detailed recordings. However, I do agree about the breakdown of the tempo in places. Also there are a few places where the players are probably a little too sloppy and would get yelled at by the conductor. Of course, a healthy dose of sloppiness does add to the realism of a sampled performance. My final quibble is that the vibrato at 1:20 is a little extreme for my taste.

Best wishes,
Jay


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## SGordB (Jan 4, 2018)

Wow. I listen a lot to classical music, although not Rossini, but I was thoroughly charmed by this (supposedly <g>) simulated MIDI performance. All the hours you put into it really paid off in an experience, for the listener, as engaging as listening to a very clean, crisp recording of a good orchestra (notwithstanding those few bumps in the timing noted by others around 3 min.).


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## Ben E (Jan 4, 2018)

So good.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 5, 2018)

THank you all. Actually I let this track a few days rest before I go back and work through it again to see what I can improve. 



novaburst said:


> Nice work on this piece @AlexanderSchiborr it was certainly uplifting and I did feel the mood and vibe through the whole piece, standing apluase to that,
> 
> You managed to capture the whole essence of the piece right to the very end.
> 
> Thanks for you time and thanks for posting



Very nice of you to say that. Much appreciated.



Rob said:


> I think you did a great job... I like woodwinds a lot, brass also, spiccato violins but not so much legato. They sound farther away and blurred when doing agile melodies. Tempi are generally slower than I'm used to (played this live in orchestra as a flutist back in the day).I have this strange feeling from 2:42 on that something strange is happening to tempo, some instability, don't know... like it very much overall, a very pleasing sound and space.



Hey Rob, 
Thanks for chiming in. I will check that out next week. I took things and oddities in tempo from the live versions but I will check out whats going on with the tempo there for sure.


Paul T McGraw said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr great work. You should really be proud of this. Very few VI artists are capable of doing a credible midi-performance of a classical work, but you are one of them. The emotion of the Overture is fabulous. Love the horns and the woodwinds. You know I appreciate your work.
> 
> OK, as a classical music lover (that is all I listen to, except some film music) the distance from the musicians is a bit jarring. In a typical classical recording the listener is on about row 8 of a symphonic hall. This sounds more like a recording studio with the listener very close. Not a bad thing just different.
> 
> ...



Thanks Paul. Maybe the strings need in some passages to roll off more with a lowshelf though that is tricky. I will experiment with different micings then. 




jon wayne said:


> Alexander,nothing but praise here! I A/Bd yours with a real orchestra and forgot which was yours at times.Great job! What strings? What do you do for depth in your mix?


Thank you a lot. Yes I do that to. This is way how I work, so a/b a lot. 
Now I don´t know but actually there are a lot of different string libraries which come here: 
Berlin Strings with Expansions a and b (for the main parts and melodies and the slower passages)
Spitfire Symphonic Strings (for a lot of shorter articulations)
Spitfire Chamber Strings (For the divisi Sections)
Hollywood Strings (for the runs mostly)
Performance Fluid Shorts (for layering the fast lines)
Musical Sampling Trailer Strings CEllos and DB for the agile faster lower lines combines with Spitfire again
Metropolis ARK III for the repetition Forte Fortissimo Parts at the end I think for the Violin 2 and 1 which I just combined because it did sound "like a unit".


I mixed the depth to 99 Percent with the micings so I created depth with the micings of the libraries pretty much..and EQ...Lowshelving and Highshelving. Sometimes I used Mid Side Eq for panning brass more outside. 

With the brass it is also a mix..Caspian Brass, Berlin Brass, Spitfire Brass. 




JBacal said:


> Very nice work! I enjoyed listening.
> 
> Actually the soundstage works well for me. But I tend to like detailed recordings. However, I do agree about the breakdown of the tempo in places. Also there are a few places where the players are probably a little too sloppy and would get yelled at by the conductor. Of course, a healthy dose of sloppiness does add to the realism of a sampled performance. My final quibble is that the vibrato at 1:20 is a little extreme for my taste.
> 
> ...



Thank you Jay. Much appreciated. I will check that heavy vibrato then..and the timings! Thank you again.




SGordB said:


> Wow. I listen a lot to classical music, although not Rossini, but I was thoroughly charmed by this (supposedly <g>) simulated MIDI performance. All the hours you put into it really paid off in an experience, for the listener, as engaging as listening to a very clean, crisp recording of a good orchestra (notwithstanding those few bumps in the timing noted by others around 3 min.).



I agree here, and I will check that out next week.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 5, 2018)

Ben E said:


> So good.



Thank you Ben! SOrry I forgot to mention you.


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## Steve Martin (Jan 5, 2018)

Hi Alexander,

just found this, and wondering how I missed it. I haven't listened to the whole piece, just started listening now, and wow, this sounds really really great! Now I'm going to have to go back through the thread and find out what libraries you've used. It's really given me the impression listening to this that it's a real orchestra! Well done, excellent


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## Paul T McGraw (Jan 5, 2018)

@AlexanderSchiborr I am really impressed that you managed to use all of those string libraries and have them sound so great together. Impressive!

For several months you were working with an all Spitfire orchestra. And your tracks using all Spitfire were really awesome. What made you abandon that? Do you think this piece would have been better or worse with your all Spitfire setup?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 5, 2018)

Paul T McGraw said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr I am really impressed that you managed to use all of those string libraries and have them sound so great together. Impressive!
> 
> For several months you were working with an all Spitfire orchestra. And your tracks using all Spitfire were really awesome. What made you abandon that? Do you think this piece would have been better or worse with your all Spitfire setup?



Actually for one year nonstop. And still, but I also needed to use other libraries here in order to achieve my vision and references. So no I did not abandon them, but there are things which Spitifre Strings just can´t do and vice versa. Also I have with that stuff a rule: I don´t go by the libraries but what does sound the best to my ears, so when the spiccs in Berlin Strings don´t do the job because the bowing of them are not how I need them, then I use the ones from Spitfire. Similiar to the some accented sustain legato. There is Berlin Strings the ones who are imo superior to others. So I take what performs and sounds the best. Mixing them all together is not easy you deal with different rooms, distances, Ensembles Sizes, Stereo Panoramas..blablabala..you know what I am talking about.:D


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## Paul T McGraw (Jan 5, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Actually for one year nonstop. And still, but I also needed to use other libraries here in order to achieve my vision and references. So no I did not abandon them, but there are things which Spitifre Strings just can´t do and vice versa. Also I have with that stuff a rule: I don´t go by the libraries but what does sound the best to my ears, so when the spiccs in Berlin Strings don´t do the job because the bowing of them are not how I need them, then I use the ones from Spitfire. Similiar to the some accented sustain legato. There is Berlin Strings the ones who are imo superior to others. So I take what performs and sounds the best. Mixing them all together is not easy you deal with different rooms, distances, Ensembles Sizes, Stereo Panoramas..blablabala..you know what I am talking about.:D



Yes, getting everything into one room is beyond me. I can use VSL using MIR Pro Teldex and Berlin together since Berlin was recorded in Teldex, but I would be completely lost trying to combine spitfire and Berlin, or Spitfire and VSL. Yet you managed to use a bunch of string libraries together. Congratulations.

If all you owned was the Spitfire Orchestra, could you have done the Rossini with only Spitfire if you had to do so?


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## Cass Hansen (Jan 7, 2018)

This is really excellent Alexander! Mocking up a classical piece with virtual instruments is extremely difficult and especially when it is in regards to “chestnut” classical work such as this one. In fact, I really haven’t heard anything on this forum so far that really comes close to a believable classical repertoire mockup, but you might change my opinion on that with this piece. You really did a bang up job and I can truthfully say it is the best classical mockup I’ve heard thus far here.

I’m currently doing the same with mockups of classical pieces, but not near the results that you have achieved. Hats off to you with a bow!

Since I also recently mocked up this piece, I did notice you missed the chord change at 2:33 and again when it repeats later on in the piece. The chord where the violins make that 9th intervallic leap upwards, the chord changes to D Major from E minor before resolving to G Major. But this could be due to the manuscript you were using.

You see, you could be correct. The reason I say that is that Rossini was notoriously lazy and hated writing overtures to his operas. Excuse me if you’ve already heard this. 

On the day of his opening night premiere of his opera, “The Thieving Magpie” he still hadn’t written the overture to it. With only hours to go, the stage manager was having a tizzy-fit. So he ordered four stage hands to lock Rossini up in the attic and force him to write the overture and directed him to throw each page out the window as he finished it so the copyists could write out the parts for the orchestra two-floors below. There was also an addendum to the stage manager’s request, If Rossini didn’t do as told, then the stage hands were to throw Rossini out the window instead!

So it is easy to see that there could easily be mistakes on any overture from Rossini!

Enough of the anecdotes. Again, this is a mind-blowing rendering, at least for me. Keep up the great work.

Cass


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## thesteelydane (Jan 7, 2018)

Excellent job! For constructive criticism (as someone who have played this as a player many times) I have very little, besides the timing issues others have noted. In all the places where I musically want the tempo to push, it actually slows down. And there a few accented phrase endings here and there, which is a big no-no in this style. I personally find that one of the hardest things to do realistically with samples.


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## CT (Jan 7, 2018)

I'll admit that when I looked at the large list of different libraries you used, I expected to hear a lot of "seams and joints" in this. But actually, it's just really damn good. The most obvious weak spots are in the flighty melodies of course, but this is probably almost as smooth as samples can render such a passage.

There is something not working for me with the depth, though, and it isn't that this might be slightly more wet than an average classical recording. I don't think it even sounds that foreign unless you're only used to very dry, old DG recordings or the like. It might be the EQ'ing to simulate distance that just rings false to my ears.


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## Paul T McGraw (Jan 8, 2018)

@AlexanderSchiborr I just listened to this again all the way through. Great job! I am so impressed. Especially the woodwinds and the horns. And the balance between woodwinds and the rest of the orchestra seems very realistic. I rarely hear a midi-performance that has such a realistic balance. Really amazing. 

Are the woodwinds Berlin Revive?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 9, 2018)

Paul T McGraw said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr I just listened to this again all the way through. Great job! I am so impressed. Especially the woodwinds and the horns. And the balance between woodwinds and the rest of the orchestra seems very realistic. I rarely hear a midi-performance that has such a realistic balance. Really amazing.
> 
> Are the woodwinds Berlin Revive?



Hej Paul, 
I have to look up the spots in the track. I used not only Berlin Woodwinds Revive but also Spitfire Woodwinds. For some of the Piccolo agile lines I used the new BWW Piccolo Transitions runs patch and for the longs the Normal Piccolo from the legacy version. There are passages where I used both and layered them together. For the clarinets and Oboes I used more Spitfire Woodwinds. In the beginning of the track I also used one flute from the Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds from Eastwest.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 9, 2018)

I am going to upload later a dry version of the track so without any additional post production so that you can see how important orchestral balance is. 

But apart from that: Anybody else noticed that Rossini in this photo looks so much like younger John Goodman?? :D


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 9, 2018)

So here is the RAW Version. No EQ, No additional Reverb, no compression, nothing, just samples out of the box and mixed with micings and volumes.


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