# Is anyone else excited by Spitfire's Mural ???



## quantum7 (Nov 27, 2013)

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/bml-mural-symphonic-strings-announced.html (http://www.spitfireaudio.com/bml-mural- ... unced.html)

"Mural’s sections ( 16,14,12,10,8 ) contain many first desk players from the internationally renowned London orchestras, and an embarrassment of fine carpentry from Mr Stradivarius! It promises to be a broad sweeping, epic and beautiful affair"

Q1 2014

I'm not sure why no one else has started a topic about it....so let me be the first. Me want!


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## Dr.Quest (Nov 27, 2013)

I am excited by anything Spitfire does, this included. Sounds like it will be quite magical and interesting. I love the way Spitfire layout their instruments.


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## paulmatthew (Nov 27, 2013)

Someone mentioned earlier in a different posting that they were wondering if this was from the bespoke range and it may very well be. I found this vid done by Paul showing how to do a batch resave from at least a year ago. Maybe this is the same library coming out or maybe it was used as a basis to create Mural. This is strictly speculation , of course . :wink:


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## Peter Alexander (Nov 27, 2013)

Paul responded to this. It's brand new.


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## valexnerfarious (Nov 27, 2013)

Buying it the first day its up


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 27, 2013)

I have been a Spitfire enthusiast myself, but to be honest, after getting a bit deeper into Sable, I have to say that I'd rather see further improvement on the functionality of the current product line over putting out new products.

I understand that it is important to generate new revenue in order to keep the growth going, but the extra hours of work I have to put in, in order to massage a line so that it behaves the way I expect it to, are taking a toll on my productivity.

The tone is to die for, but the legato script has to bet better.
I mostly use the mix perspective, and there are quite a few issues there.

And of course, I can only imagine how hard it must be to try to conquer not only one set of samples, but 7 of them!!!

This is quite a challenge you guys went for!


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## skyforestblaze (Nov 27, 2013)

quantum7 @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> http://www.spitfireaudio.com/bml-mural-symphonic-strings-announced.html
> 
> "Mural’s sections ( 16,14,12,10,8 ) contain many first desk players from the internationally renowned London orchestras, and an embarrassment of fine carpentry from Mr Stradivarius! It promises to be a broad sweeping, epic and beautiful affair"
> 
> ...



Hello quantum7, i actually started a thread about it two days ago 

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34984

And like you i cannot wait to hear it!


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## FriFlo (Nov 28, 2013)

+1 for spitfire working on improvements!

Volume. 3b still has to be released. Then tweaking on all the patches. Finally, the functionality is pretty basic at this point. One rather important fact is, that there are gonna be quite a lot of different legato patches there at the time, if they come with 3b as promised. Bow change, slur and glissando are already in one patch available. But in reality you need ALL legato patche inside one patch to be able to combine them.
OT just announced that for their upcoming B(ull)S(hit). 
guessing from their video this will work by time between each keystroke (as done years ago by The VSL player). There may be people who don't like that approach, but it is a fact, that you need to have all legat articulations (except for Con Sord) in one patch and somehow to be able to switch. Otherwise, You have to always break the legato line in order to change the mode or do some work around trickery, which is not user friendly. 
I think I remember SF have announced there will be patches combining articulations of the different volumes, once all volumes have been released. I just hope they won't follow in the footsteps of 8dio and put out one thing after the other as recently and only give updates every two years as a reaction to forum members complaining! Up to this point they really showed the opposite! I hope it will stay this way!
On a side note: still waiting for 8dio to update Liberis to Kontakt 5 (time machine pro cannot be used!!! What a bummer!), as they did with Requiem ...


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## Ryan (Nov 28, 2013)

FriFlo @ 28/11/2013 said:


> +1 for spitfire working on improvements!
> 
> Volume. 3b still has to be released. Then tweaking on all the patches. Finally, the functionality is pretty basic at this point. One rather important fact is, that there are gonna be quite a lot of different legato patches there at the time, if they come with 3b as promised. Bow change, slur and glissando are already in one patch available. But in reality you need ALL legato patche inside one patch to be able to combine them.
> OT just announced that for their upcoming B(ull)S(hit).
> ...



+1 
I started a discussion about it. But got a bit stoned. But, I think it will come sooner or later. they have a tendency to come with updates 
And also: I'm really looking forward to this library!


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## wanmingyan (Nov 28, 2013)

FriFlo @ November 28th 2013 said:


> +1 for spitfire working on improvements!
> On a side note: still waiting for 8dio to update Liberis to Kontakt 5 (time machine pro cannot be used!!! What a bummer!), as they did with Requiem ...



There's always Soundiron's Mercury Boy's Choir (which is on 50% sale at the moment)! 

-WMY


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## Frankly-h (Nov 28, 2013)

Patrick de Caumette @ Wed Nov 27 said:


> The tone is to die for, but the legato script has to bet better.



+1


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## procreative (Nov 28, 2013)

I echo sentiments about developers releasing product after product and not fixing issues in a timely manner. 

Spitfire though are an exception as somehow they always manage to not only fix things but add content. They must really burn the midnight oil.

8Dio are one developer I have become a little disenchanted with. They do make great sounding products but fixes are slow and information on future fixes is non-existent. News seems to solely focus on new product. 

I received my 8W invite. But after my experiences with Adagio I held off as this also seems a very ambitious project with potential for issues.

With more complex libraries this is important in my buying decision.

I edited this post a bit as I do not want to come across ungrateful. I do appreciate the work that goes into some of these libraries and that nothing is ever released perfect.

However developers need to consider the market is now ultra competitive and many libraries are very similar. Eventually your choices are made not just on how they sound/features but also on your perception of the developer's attitude to fixes and updates.

Lesson: Communicate more.


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## jamwerks (Nov 28, 2013)

I'm looking forward to Mural. Full strings in that great room. I was hoping for this, as I'm not an Albion-type library user, and they have some great sounding string ensembles there. SF has said that there are different teams working there, so I don't think Mural is delaying Sable 3b.

Doesn't SF have a pretty much 100% confidence rate for supporting products? 3b is probably (my speculation) addressing all the things that they want it to be able to do. And don't forget that 3 got about tripled in content, for free!

BTW, Troels has recently written here that a free update to Adagio is coming.


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## Synesthesia (Nov 28, 2013)

Its pretty depressing reading some of these posts to be honest.

On Tuesday evening I very nearly asked Frederick to delete my account here.

Christian and I work very very hard indeed, as do everyone here at Spitfire.

We put out many updates, with free samples often. 

The functionality and tweak-ability of our products - eg Sable - is extraordinarily high. It's fully configurable, if you read the manual and watch the product tutorials.

Sable currently has three basic legato types. It is incredibly responsive and the legato is, to my ears, superb.

It has one further extended legato type in 3a. This is simply the best fast legato I have ever heard. Andy's first demo with it took my breath away. I'm also a user, as well as a developer.

Oh well. Grit the teeth and carry on I guess. Its pretty hard to read some of this stuff though, I nearly sat down to make a screencast specifically to counter the assertion that Sable's legato needs to be "a lot better".

But I think actually thats a waste of time that I should be spending working on products, replying to support requests and so on.

Paul


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## procreative (Nov 28, 2013)

Paul, don't be depressed. In my eyes you are one of the best. Every library has its flaws and idiosyncrasies.

You cannot please everyone.

I was very amazed as an early adopter to see Sable 3B announced and cannot wait. 

While I appreciate there is a lot to sort with this instalment, I am impressed with the fact you seem to manage to update your older libraries and plough through new titles.

I think this is where your company really does stand out, you seem to manage both.

And I like (a) your ethos towards performers and (b) your very british approach (HZ excepted!) as an alternative to the hollywood sound.

Sable and Loegria are great for that Indie film sound. Sometimes less is more.

Keep it up!


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 28, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Its pretty depressing reading some of these posts to be honest.
> 
> On Tuesday evening I very nearly asked Frederick to delete my account here.
> 
> ...



I think the regular and overly generous updates to the Albion range, the Harp, Percussion etc. may have spoilt people a bit... Also, being unaware that you've got different teams working on different products may make it seem like the flow of new products has left updates to the sidelines. And yet the number of posts calling for new additions for the BML series is much greater than those asking for updates. Ironic, eh?

Honestly, I use samples from every major developer out there and SF stands out by having the largest number of updates and extensive additional free content, also for products that are several years old. Now that's what I call an investment! There are other companies that follow this model too, but none have been quite as generous and consistent as SF.

So, in the interest of having a constructive discussion, perhaps those having issues with the Sable legatos could (aside from filing support tickets, which I'm sure they've already done..?) point out the problems and provide examples. I agree that 1.0 of Sable was a bit bumpy, but 1.1 & Vol3 have some of, if not the best ambient legatos I've heard.


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## G.R. Baumann (Nov 28, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Its pretty depressing reading some of these posts to be honest.
> 
> On Tuesday evening I very nearly asked Frederick to delete my account here.



Awww... <pet on the back... then holding up two glasses, offering both... ahem, no, offering one to Paul> o-[][]-o :lol: 

Looking at the improvements to date concerning the very first Albion release... no further comments needed.

The efforts made by you guys to stay in touch, listen to requests for improvements, and delivering them as free updates is... simply outstanding and certainly creates customer loyalty!

Cheers Paul! 
Best
Georg


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## valexnerfarious (Nov 28, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Its pretty depressing reading some of these posts to be honest.
> 
> On Tuesday evening I very nearly asked Frederick to delete my account here.
> 
> ...


Paul....i for one have bought many 6 of Spitfire products and all i can say is that they are second to none...i have never had a complaint with any of the legato patches at all...I hear all the hard word and time you guys have put in this... i guess the same thing goes for developing sample libraires with writing music. you hope everyone will like it but Paul i wouldnt take heard to all the whining and complaining because you cant please everyone..and someone is always gonna bitch about something..thats just how some people are...coming from a person on a fixed income and trying to get by month to month and saving every dime they can to by your products if they didint blow me i wouldnt have broke myself to buy all these libraries from you guys...And BTW Paul thanks for tapping my funds with HZ percussion...another fine example of pushing the envelope just a lil but further than the rest!


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## paulmatthew (Nov 28, 2013)

jamwerks @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> I'm looking forward to Mural. Full strings in that great room. I was hoping for this, as I'm not an Albion-type library user, and they have some great sounding string ensembles there.



If is sounds anything like the original Albion String section , we're all in for a real treat!! So far I'm only looking forward to 2 new libraries next year , Spitfire's Mural and Hybrid Two's Project Bravo.


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## Eric (Nov 28, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Its pretty depressing reading some of these posts to be honest.
> 
> On Tuesday evening I very nearly asked Frederick to delete my account here.
> 
> ...



Hi Paul,

This is my 1st time posting on a Spitfire thread, though I've invested in your libraries far more heavily than any other sample library developer. I fit a somewhat different definition of "vi composer" than most others on this forum from what I can tell. I'm also not a power user, compared to the vast majority here. So, I'm not trying to speak for the vi-control community, only for myself.

Most of my use of Sable thus far has been as a session keyboardist. Every response I've gotten has been positive, from gasps to expletives. Sable is absolutely gorgeous for rock music, with a character that just sounds right to me, in a way I don't hear in demos for other libraries. I don't at all mean that as a dismissal of the amazing work of others, but rather only to say that your sound is the one I want coming out of my fingers in the studio - that's the sound I want to hear on the recordings with which I'm presently involved.

I'm looking forward with GREAT anticipation to experiencing Mural. Your products have been nothing short of transformative to my art.

However, my reasons for investing in your products go beyond the sound, and beyond their ease of use. I have faith that my investments are solid, because I see your continued efforts to keep your older libraries up to date. I like that you pay royalties to your instrumentalists. I like that you support UNICEF. And I trust my instincts about people - I believe you're making these products first and foremost because you're passionate about them, that you're an overall good human being, and that you take great pride in your work.

I feel blessed for the opportunity to work as a performing musician, but I've also had to learn that not everyone will like me, no matter what I do. Apparently, the same is true of developers. While I can't say whether or not it's what I see in this thread, there is a tendency in some people to bash others in order to feel better about themselves. Perhaps such a practice might even help a consumer feel slightly less guilty about having bought a product they can't really afford. Or maybe a consumer is trying to feel better about not spending $$ on a product they really want. But I can't speak for anyone but myself. You really don't owe me a thing, not a single update for any Spitfire product I've bought. I've already gotten immense value, and I have barely scratched the surface. That said, I of course hope that your passion for your previously released libraries will continue to drive you to keep them alive, and that the market will continue to value your efforts.

I've gotta think that Black Friday week is the craziest, most stressful time of the year to be a developer, let alone for Spitfire to be releasing the most widely discussed and anticipated sample library of 2013. But there would be no Black Friday if not for the American holiday Thanksgiving, on which it's traditional to mention to others what we're thankful for. This Thanksgiving, I'm honestly thankful for Spitfire Audio.


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Nov 28, 2013)

I don't understand how people can be complaining about the lack of updates from Spitfire. My Albion has probably doubled in size since I first brought it, the horn and bones patch in the update from the v3 (was it v3 or 2? I can't remember!) is still one of the best brass patches I have ever encountered. My BML stuff sounds fantastic but how can you say they aren't focusing on fixing old things when they've just spent god knows how long REWRITING the code for ALL THREE Albions?! We got some really cool free updates with that. Not to mention they did that whilst working on securing HZ Perc for release the other day AND probably working on all manner of updates for all the BML instruments, not to mention the new, upcoming ones.

Anyone who questions Spitfire's dedication clearly isn't living in the real world. Add up all the free content (and I invite you to try the quality of the v3 and the REDUX (or any of them for that matter) Albion updates they provided) and see how much you are really getting. Their customer service is unparalleled, their work ethic phenomenal and their devotion to keeping their customers happy is unquestionable. Just because they haven't updated Sable yet or released something (because, I might add, they went back and added more based on user feedback, enough said...) doesn't mean they won't. Did you consider how much time and effort went into the recent REDUX releases? How much time do you reckon that took to unify all their projects (to make our lives easier, let's face it!) into one code? 

Aside from having some of THE best samples (and I will not be hesitating to buy Mural) they also have one of the best customer service records AND probably the most free content and updates. How many other sample libraries that you own that are a couple of years old are on v5? I rest my case.


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## dgburns (Nov 28, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Its pretty depressing reading some of these posts to be honest.
> 
> On Tuesday evening I very nearly asked Frederick to delete my account here.
> 
> ...



Chin up! 

i don't own a single Spitfire lib.But thanks to this forum,And mostly the strength of quality of sound/programming that I can perceive from especially Sable,I will be soon.

I have tons of other libs.And for the most part none are perfect.Case in point is Lass.because it has so much expression that can be programmed in,it just takes TIME to program for best results,even if you know exactly where you are going note wise.Even then,there are the strident erring notes that come off a little wrong here and there,and you spend tons of time ironing them out.

It's life,and it sucks,but it's our job to make the libs we have sound as good as we can.And if everyone only said nice things,we'd never get better.....

So ....I raise a glass to all your hard work,preferably a nice tall bitter with some foam on it.err....make that two of them
david


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## paulmatthew (Nov 28, 2013)

lucianogiacomozzi @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> I don't understand how people can be complaining about the lack of updates from Spitfire. My Albion has probably doubled in size since I first brought it, the horn and bones patch in the update from the v3 (was it v3 or 2? I can't remember!) is still one of the best brass patches I have ever encountered. My BML stuff sounds fantastic but how can you say they aren't focusing on fixing old things when they've just spent god knows how long REWRITING the code for ALL THREE Albions?! We got some really cool free updates with that. Not to mention they did that whilst working on securing HZ Perc for release the other day AND probably working on all manner of updates for all the BML instruments, not to mention the new, upcoming ones.



Not to mention the updates for the Joby Burgess Percussion library and The wonderful Skaila Kanga Harp . Spitfire and Cinesamples are both stellar when it comes to updates , new additions and free content add ons. Keep your chin up Paul.


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## skyforestblaze (Nov 28, 2013)

As someone who is looking for a strings library for quit some time now, i only very recently started looking seriously at Spitfire. Not that i didn't know about them or anything, but i was just investigating some other product lines first. And i have to say that apart from the amazing sound quality and very nice looking interfaces of the SF products, what struck me about this company is the enthusiasm and passion they express for their own work. Some people have even commented negatively on their youtube video's about that, saying that Paul applauds his own products too much, or some crap like that. That really amazed me. I mean, isn't a developer allowed to be exited about showing off his own products? Like i said, it's enthusiasm and passion at work and you can't expect someone to hide that. Personally i like these walkthrough video's a lot and am not bothered one bit by 'self praising', but i guess some people just feel the need to bitch about _something_.

- André


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Nov 28, 2013)

paulmatthew @ Thu 28 Nov said:


> lucianogiacomozzi @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand how people can be complaining about the lack of updates from Spitfire. My Albion has probably doubled in size since I first brought it, the horn and bones patch in the update from the v3 (was it v3 or 2? I can't remember!) is still one of the best brass patches I have ever encountered. My BML stuff sounds fantastic but how can you say they aren't focusing on fixing old things when they've just spent god knows how long REWRITING the code for ALL THREE Albions?! We got some really cool free updates with that. Not to mention they did that whilst working on securing HZ Perc for release the other day AND probably working on all manner of updates for all the BML instruments, not to mention the new, upcoming ones.
> ...



Exactly, if I'm not mistaken those are both older than the Albions, SF/JB Perc was one of their first commercial libraries, was it not? Glad you mentioned CineSamples as well, they both go that extra mile. All the time.


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## korgscrew (Nov 28, 2013)

You know, people are entiltled to their opinions, but in here, it has gone beyond.

People commenting on lack of updates from spitfire, please stop. Dont spoil it for the rest of us! I wouldnt want P or C to get annoyed with all the bad comments and stop doing updates all together. The Updates are a big reason why I buy their products, and they are plentyful. When an upadte comes out, its like getting a whole new library! Gigabytes of free samples, patches and presets, for free? Thankyou 

As for the Legatos in sable, I see nothing wrong with them! The runs patch is amazing! If you want them a bit smoother, add some reverb! I find them a tad detache in some cases, hence why I put some Alitverb Cathedral on them. Adapt and over come. Do you want them to write the music for you too? 

Sure, there are a few niggles. As with every other library out there! Setup a ticket and have a conversation with Christian about it! Id hate any of the guys to leave this forum due to some silly comments.

o-[][]-o Warm Beer.


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## quantum7 (Nov 28, 2013)

I am totally bewildered how anyone would have the nerve to say Spitfire doesn't do enough updates. :? IMO no other sample dev comes close to the amount of updates Spitfire does. I wish other sample devs would do the same. I don't even know how Paul & Christian sleep with the amount of work I constantly see coming from them. 

P&C of Spitfire- keep up the EXCELLENT work, and I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart for sample libraries that bring a smile to my face every time I use them. :D


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## Stephen Baysted (Nov 28, 2013)

If Mural is quarter as good as the bespoke Symphonic Strings I invested God knows how much money in, then it will be sensationally good. Put me down for a copy Paul, and I'll have another case of Real Ale too 


IMVHO I do think some people need to get some perspective on what they wish for: the ultimate aim is surely not to have the perfect sample library (it'll never exist anyway - and so much the better), rather it is for our mockups to be expressive enough to convince producers to invest in live orchestral recordings for their films and games. 

Cheers!


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## AC986 (Nov 28, 2013)

Yes I've held off getting another string library until it comes out.


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## Synesthesia (Nov 28, 2013)

Wow.. I logged back in this evening with a glass of cold Sauv Blanc in my hand kind of dreading what I was going to read after my slightly petulant outburst this afternoon.

Thank you so much for your supportive comments guys. It really does make a massive difference.

Its very easy to lose sight of the wood when you are wandering amongst the trees.

There is that weird human nature to focus on any negative criticism and give it more weight than the positive feedback. I suppose its only human to want everyone to be happy with your work!

I won't drone on. Just wanted to say thank you.


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## dcoscina (Nov 28, 2013)

I'm totally down for this release. My yearly bonus will be handed out just after Christmas and this is what I'm going to spend it on. Paul, you and your fellow Spitfire chaps are tops in my book. Albion 1,2, and 3 all got significant reduces this year and they are fantastic. I love he strings on Albion I especially the shorts that seem to automatically switch between spiccato and staccato depending on the velocity. They are my go to strings and as someone else said earlier, the mid brass have basically taeken over as my horns- they are lovely (though I'm getting into BML horns more these days- oh wait, that's yours too!).

Top drawer gents. Top drawer.


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## Phil M (Nov 28, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Thu 28 Nov said:


> Wow.. I logged back in this evening with a glass of cold Sauv Blanc in my hand kind of dreading what I was going to read after my slightly petulant outburst this afternoon.
> 
> Thank you so much for your supportive comments guys. It really does make a massive difference.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you haven't abandoned us 8) 

I don't have Sable so I can't comment on the legato scripts. With my software engineer's hat on, yes, in theory, software can always be improved but you will eventually hit a point where the cost and effort in doing so by far outweighs any benefits gained.

And with my hobbyist composer's hat on, I will say that the Spitfire libraries I have so far are pretty bloody marvellous


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## germancomponist (Nov 28, 2013)

To answer the original question here: Yes, I am.


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## korgscrew (Nov 28, 2013)

germancomponist @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> To answer the original question here: Yes, I am.



You do make me giggle GC!


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## germancomponist (Nov 28, 2013)

korgscrew @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Nov 29 said:
> 
> 
> > To answer the original question here: Yes, I am.
> ...



Giggle is healthy, carry on!


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## Stephen Baysted (Nov 28, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Wow.. I logged back in this evening with a glass of cold Sauv Blanc in my hand kind of dreading what I was going to read after my slightly petulant outburst this afternoon.




I trust it was NZ, Cloudy Bay perchance? They've just released their 2013 vintage and it's mighty fine 8)


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## zacnelson (Nov 28, 2013)

I agree with Eric, the Sable sound is uniquely suitable for rock productions, I have been very pleased with how it has worked for me in that way.

Also, the Sable legatos were immensely improved with the 1.1 update, so maybe people who complain about the legato are still using version 1? I don't experience any funny business with any of the Sable patches - I have volumes 1 and 3.


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## Adrian Myers (Nov 28, 2013)

This is a bit of a frivolous post I suppose, but it was really heartening to see Paul's mood turn around in this thread. There is so much potential for positive reinforcement and inspiration here, but that potential is easily lost or inverted. It's great to see a thread like this recover.

Also, echoing Gunther's sentiment, "yes".


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## NYC Composer (Nov 28, 2013)

I am certainly interested in hearing Mural.

The Spitfire folk have become one of the world's premiere companies in a fairly short time. Their customer service appears to be excellent and very responsive. However, I would hate to see the developers go down the road of over-sensitivity that another genius developer went down in this forum. "Oh, the ingratitude- I give and give and give and what do I get? Criticism." Well yes, along with a huge and wonderful reputation and hopefully very good monetary compensation.

Some people are not going to think your products are perfect. Sometimes, they might say so in this forum. Sometimes, they might not say things in as politic a manner as they could (although re-reading this thread, what I saw was pretty mild). I've seen Spitfire receive tremendous acclaim here, many kudos. I think those reactions FAR outweigh the critical ones, and I would ask you guys to please receive and deal with the critiques in a balanced manner as long as they are reasonably respectful (as you normally do) or suggest they deal with you through your support channels (as you often do).

I don't want a rude forum, but nor do I want a "don't say anything bad about" forum. That defeats the purpose of discourse and simply creates an advocacy group. Yech. I know you felt some of the statements to be unfair, but that's inevitable-sometimes it comes with the territory.

And do stick around, please  Cheers.


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## G.R. Baumann (Nov 29, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Wow.. I logged back in this evening with a glass of cold Sauv Blanc in my hand ...



 :?:  I don't understand. See...



G.R. Baumann @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Awww... <pet on the back... then holding up two glasses, offering both... ahem, no, offering one to Paul> o-[][]-o :lol:



...Clearly, I had two pints of Guinness ennobled with 2cl Port each, and not a bloody Sauv blanc...

:wink:


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## mk282 (Nov 29, 2013)

And of course, the original 3 posters who brought Paul's mood down never commented back in this thread. Typical VI-C...


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## R.Cato (Nov 29, 2013)

Am I excited? Of course I am excited by every new library Spitfire announces. Albion I was my best purchase so far and what thrills me even more is the high possibility that we might also see a Brass library recorded in AIR by Spitfire after Mural.


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## TimJohnson (Nov 29, 2013)

Only company I will buy from without even listening to demos, I know whatever the hell it is i'm buying will be bloody amazing at what it does.
I truly believe I owe a large chunk of my Masters degree to the guys at Spitfire, who came along and brought out the Albion range just at the right moment. For that I will always be grateful!

So yes, i'm going to start saving now for this!


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## Andy B (Nov 29, 2013)

Patrick de Caumette @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> The tone is to die for, but the legato script has to bet better.
> I mostly use the mix perspective, and there are quite a few issues there.



Hi Patrick,

I'm responsible for Spitfire's legato programming and I can see that you've downloaded the latest version of Sable. What issues are you experiencing, I've just loaded the stereo mixes and all seems fine here?

Thanks,

Andy.


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## Stiltzkin (Nov 29, 2013)

I think the issue is that people are not saying they personally dislike the sound (infact it seems they love it) it's that they are saying something is fundamentally wrong with the programming which is FAR worse reputation than anything else (think PLAY). People are likely frustrated that they think something is wrong with it when it probably is just something that can be easily fixed - and spitfire are trying to help by looking in to it.

Bad reputation for faulty products is 10x worse for a developer than a personal distaste for what the product is offering.


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## FriFlo (Nov 29, 2013)

What is the point of posting back, when a horde of people is gonna stone you for NOTHING???
Did I say ANYTHING negative? I said all legato arctics should be available within one patch and I pointed out that recently there were quite some releases going on at SF while not even all parts of sable have been released ... I think that is some fair question and also there is no problem for me, if 3b is gonna come out soon. But it reminds me of the way 8dio releases one thing after another and that I was hoping SF would not fall into the same path.
And seriously, Paul: I remember, EVERY time I said anything about your products, that could be improved, you felt insulted by it. I really mean no harm by saying something that could be improved. If you cannot take comments like they are intended (and really no one was bashing any product here!), you really shouldn't be posting and reading here. This is not the SF fan boy page but a place of free speech (within the boarders of civility) and the day this place stops being that, I'll be gone. And you are not threatening anyone but yourself by saying you would leave this forum: your business model of selling libraries without resellers is only possible because of this place! What did anybody write here, that you must cry like a little girl??? Either you are just acting this or you really are THAT sensitive ... I almost bought any SF library, so if you feel insulted by every critique I say, I should be insulted by that!
This will be my last comment in this thread, as I really have better things to do, than explaining people, why I write things, that they really don't wanna hear. If you guys really just wanna accept your view point, then found your own forum and go chat with yourselves the whole day!
Many people in this forum complain about posters bashing devs. But the opposite is also true: unreflected people bashing opinions of forum members. But I tell you, I will keep posting my opinion here! Your shit storm does not affect me at all! Cheers and out.


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## Darryl Jackson (Nov 29, 2013)

I agree completely, Stiltzkin. And again, I definitely wouldn't expect a developer to just watch idly if there is what they believe to be a false claim about their programming. The issue I saw was that the response to several (not just one lone annoyed user) complaints about the same issue is likely rooted in _something_ if only just user error that could be sorted out, instead of the library's programming. 

I just think the focus should have been on figuring out what the user issue was if the programming/recording "problem" truly was nonexistent (a process that Andy has very kindly started above), instead of shaming the participants in the discussion.

Again, not a Sable user so I can't give any opinions there. I'd just noticed that this seems to be a trend on the forum lately, with people recently becoming afraid to voice negative opinions of any kind (on the sound of the library or otherwise).


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## Adrian Myers (Nov 29, 2013)

Yeah, healthy debate and discussion of legitimate errors in libraries or patch programming is fine. But there are venues for that, and they work extremely well. If somebody asks you "Are you excited for product X by developer Y?" and you simply complain about product Z from developer Y, that's not the same thing. Just say no, or avoid the thread. Otherwise it's just a negative thread that isn't going to do much good.


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## Spitfire Audio rep. (Nov 29, 2013)

Well, one of the reasons 3b is taking some time is due to the massive amount of legato programming. Several of the recent releases (Enigma, Kitchenware, Pylons, Marimba, HZ01) are without any legato functions.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the original Sable vol 3 was a lot smaller, but was significantly expanded.


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## skyforestblaze (Nov 29, 2013)

Is it possible to get an indication when the first demo's of Mural are going to be released? :D And will it be a two part series, or three parts? Thanks!
- André


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## Synesthesia (Nov 29, 2013)

FriFlo @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> What is the point of posting back, when a horde of people is gonna stone you for NOTHING???
> Did I say ANYTHING negative? I said all legato arctics should be available within one patch and I pointed out that recently there were quite some releases going on at SF while not even all parts of sable have been released ... I think that is some fair question and also there is no problem for me, if 3b is gonna come out soon. But it reminds me of the way 8dio releases one thing after another and that I was hoping SF would not fall into the same path.
> And seriously, Paul: I remember, EVERY time I said anything about your products, that could be improved, you felt insulted by it. I really mean no harm by saying something that could be improved. If you cannot take comments like they are intended (and really no one was bashing any product here!), you really shouldn't be posting and reading here. This is not the SF fan boy page but a place of free speech (within the boarders of civility) and the day this place stops being that, I'll be gone. And you are not threatening anyone but yourself by saying you would leave this forum: your business model of selling libraries without resellers is only possible because of this place! What did anybody write here, that you must cry like a little girl??? Either you are just acting this or you really are THAT sensitive ... I almost bought any SF library, so if you feel insulted by every critique I say, I should be insulted by that!
> This will be my last comment in this thread, as I really have better things to do, than explaining people, why I write things, that they really don't wanna hear. If you guys really just wanna accept your view point, then found your own forum and go chat with yourselves the whole day!
> Many people in this forum complain about posters bashing devs. But the opposite is also true: unreflected people bashing opinions of forum members. But I tell you, I will keep posting my opinion here! Your [email protected]#t storm does not affect me at all! Cheers and out.




:roll:


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## germancomponist (Nov 29, 2013)




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## Stiltzkin (Nov 29, 2013)

skyforestblaze @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> Is it possible to get an indication when the first demo's of Mural are going to be released? :D And will it be a two part series, or three parts? Thanks!
> - André



This information would be great 

I'm still pretty new to spitfire and only just got sable myself, but I'm really looking forward to being able to make a full spitfire template...

Just hoping there will at some point be more than just flutes for the woodwinds  but one step at a time ^^


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## NYC Composer (Nov 29, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Its pretty depressing reading some of these posts to be honest.
> 
> On Tuesday evening I very nearly asked Frederick to delete my account here.
> 
> ...



:roll: 

(see how easy that was? We could all just go this route with posts we find uncivil or simply disagree with- and we could do it publicly to make sure it's interpreted correctly as derisive)


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## NYC Composer (Nov 29, 2013)

FriFlo @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> What is the point of posting back, when a horde of people is gonna stone you for NOTHING???
> Did I say ANYTHING negative? I said all legato arctics should be available within one patch and I pointed out that recently there were quite some releases going on at SF while not even all parts of sable have been released ... I think that is some fair question and also there is no problem for me, if 3b is gonna come out soon. But it reminds me of the way 8dio releases one thing after another and that I was hoping SF would not fall into the same path.
> And seriously, Paul: I remember, EVERY time I said anything about your products, that could be improved, you felt insulted by it. I really mean no harm by saying something that could be improved. If you cannot take comments like they are intended (and really no one was bashing any product here!), you really shouldn't be posting and reading here. This is not the SF fan boy page but a place of free speech (within the boarders of civility) and the day this place stops being that, I'll be gone. And you are not threatening anyone but yourself by saying you would leave this forum: your business model of selling libraries without resellers is only possible because of this place! What did anybody write here, that you must cry like a little girl??? Either you are just acting this or you really are THAT sensitive ... I almost bought any SF library, so if you feel insulted by every critique I say, I should be insulted by that!
> This will be my last comment in this thread, as I really have better things to do, than explaining people, why I write things, that they really don't wanna hear. If you guys really just wanna accept your view point, then found your own forum and go chat with yourselves the whole day!
> Many people in this forum complain about posters bashing devs. But the opposite is also true: unreflected people bashing opinions of forum members. But I tell you, I will keep posting my opinion here! Your [email protected]#t storm does not affect me at all! Cheers and out.



I agree with some of what you say, but some of the tone, especially the "cry like a little girl" bit was totally unnecessary and unlikely to accomplish anything positive.


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## Walid F. (Nov 29, 2013)

After reading most of the posts in here, it feels like there are truths to both sides of the discussion about developer/user thread interaction (read: lapidation).

1. Calm down guys, we're doing this for the love we have of music, and not to bring down spirits and call eachother names.

2. Everyone saying that it's unjustified to say that Spitfire aren't doing enough work on previous libraries and put out new ones instead, please just keep it professional and try to find a solution to that. Clearly they are not mentioning these issues they are having if they aren't having them. 

3. Users should be able to express thoughts about products and ideologies/procedures of developers - without it there is no development - and they should not be feeling bashed in for doing so, rather they should be asked in a calm fashion what it is that makes them have to say these opinions and ideas.

4. Spitfire - We are very aware of the incredible work you guys do! I don't think ANYONE in this thread has said anything otherwise, we all know how much effort and love you put into these projects, you should know that always! You are like a monumental example of how sample developing should be. 

So to conclude: Calm down everyone. Let people speak up, and discuss in orderly fashion. Don't say that you should quit just because people have opinions of somethings, and don't trivialize other users opinions, guys... 

So carry on with a nice discussion of even MORE strings (jesus christ, how much more can my wallet bear...).


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## AC986 (Nov 29, 2013)

I read the passages about Sable legato last night and put them up on the computer just to remind myself if I had any issues. None at all here. Apart from anything else, they make a great sound. 
There is lot made of legato in general. Legato is an over used word when you are an actual player either as a soloist or in an orchestra. 

If it's not some waffle going on about legato, it's something about spicattos. There may also be, thinking about it for a second, more of an issue with some of the midi keyboards out there.


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## RiffWraith (Nov 29, 2013)

Walid F. @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> 1. Calm down guys, we're doing this for the love we have of music, and not to bring down spirits and call eachother names.



A big +1 to that.


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## Synesthesia (Nov 29, 2013)

FriFlo @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> +1 for spitfire working on improvements!
> 
> Volume. 3b still has to be released. Then tweaking on all the patches. Finally, the functionality is pretty basic at this point. One rather important fact is, that there are gonna be quite a lot of different legato patches there at the time, if they come with 3b as promised. Bow change, slur and glissando are already in one patch available. But in reality you need ALL legato patche inside one patch to be able to combine them.
> OT just announced that for their upcoming B(ull)S(hit).
> ...



OK so lets deal with this point by point, and if there is anything in here that helps us, all the better. If it turns out that its that man who walks into your shop and just shouts at you everytime he buys something, not so valuable.

So.




> 3b still has to be released



Correct. This is all extra free material added AFTER we had announced volume 3. We will complete this and release it, FREE, when it is ready. I will not ask everyone to down tools on every other project to rush a free update, that is larger than the original library, out. Believe me, it will be worth the wait.



> Then tweaking on all the patches



This has already been done. three weeks from release we released tweaked updates based on feedback and our own use of the libs in anger.



> Finally, the functionality is pretty basic at this point



I don't really understand this. Do you mean the legato functionality? So Bow change, fingered and portamento is not enough? Do other libraries out there have all of this? Or do you mean the scripting? Is there something you cannot achieve with the controls? Have you read the manual?

Please be more detailed in your analysis of "basic".



> I just hope they won't follow in the footsteps of 8dio and put out one thing after the other as recently and only give updates every two years as a reaction to forum members complaining! Up to this point they really showed the opposite! I hope it will stay this way!



Hmm. Not sure if you are asking a question here. So the recent free Albion range reduxes? Percussion Redux? Harp v2? All with new samples? Or this more of a question like "I hope the sky will not fall! I hope a crater will not open up under my house and swallow me!"

In all seriousness, you seem to imagine we've sat around on Sable not doing anything. In fact, we have something pretty cool up our sleeves for Sable and for Mural. I won't go into detail now, as I'm going to put a little taster up online on Monday.

So -- bring it on! Let us know what we can improve!! I'm all ears. I really want this stuff to be the best there is. Thats what gets us out of bed. But just some random stuff without substantiation isn't massively helpful.

Andy's already asked Patrick to expand on the huge problems he's having -- might be mutually beneficial, we've all loaded up the stereo mixes here and scratched our heads to work out what he means.

Maybe he'll come back and give us some more info. I'm all for positive feedback that helps us get better.

Thanks!

Paul


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## Walid F. (Nov 29, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> So -- bring it on! Let us know what we can improve!! I'm all ears. I really want this stuff to be the best there is. Thats what gets us out of bed. *But just some random stuff without substantiation isn't massively helpful.*



+1000 This is so damn friggen important!

So nice to see you care so much about your customers, Paul! Kudos on being such an awesome developer. Oh, and never congratulated you guys on HZ perc: GZ!! Sounds great. :D


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## skyforestblaze (Nov 29, 2013)

> In fact, we have something pretty cool up our sleeves for Sable and for Mural. I won't go into detail now, as I'm going to put a little taster up online on Monday.



The weekend has just begun, but...bring on Monday! :D


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 29, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> This has already been done. three weeks from release we released tweaked updates based on feedback and our own use of the libs in anger.



I think I must have missed this actually, Paul - would you mind pointing me in the right direction for all the latest versions? I know you know this but I'd raised a support ticket over my fast legato issues and understood that the issue was to be addressed in a future update... however following a tip off a few weeks ago I download a revised 3a nkr from way back in August that fixed everything. It works great now - really excellent actually. It would have been super-useful these past months too! So just want to be sure I'm up date with all the rest of your fine work on Sable strings.

Perhaps some of the (minority) grumbling here is also down to having missed some updates ?? Its awful to think you guys have sweated for hundreds of hours refining things and your customers might just not be aware that it exists.


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## Synesthesia (Nov 29, 2013)

Guy -- email sent.

Cheers!

Paul


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## Hannes_F (Nov 29, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:


> Its pretty depressing reading some of these posts to be honest.
> 
> On Tuesday evening I very nearly asked Frederick to delete my account here.



EDIT reading on in this thread I'm releaved that professionality has been winning.

Keep up the good work Spitfire (I'm a client myself and supporter from early days) but please don't hand out psychological muzzles if any possible.


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## Synesthesia (Nov 29, 2013)

EDIT
____

** just to be clear. My only problem with this generally, is that someone reading it could simply take it at face value, and think that there are indeed, for example, terrible problems with the legato in Sable.

But then -- does this matter? Discussion on an internet forum? I really don't know. Genuinely. maybe not and I'm actually just being Don Quixote.


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## Hannes_F (Nov 29, 2013)

Paul, I was reading the thread from beginning to end, just as others might do. See my edited post.


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## Daniel James (Nov 29, 2013)

Hannes_F @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Its pretty depressing reading some of these posts to be honest.
> ...



I see emotional responses like this from developers as a slippery slope...its essentially playing the sympathy card. On an open forum like this where people want to openly discuss sample libraries and their opinions on them its almost not fair to have the developer of said product come into the discussion and deliver an emotional speech. All that does is firstly play on peoples human nature to want to comfort people and say nice things, to make them feel better, which doesn't help any of the real hard points people have to sink in. And secondly it turns people against those who wish to share an opinion, it makes them look like a bad guy, even when the concern is genuine, leading to less genuine people wanting to post here. 

I know how it feels, I have had people shit all over my work and my sample library and it really does hurt (not playing sympathy card here) but you have to accept that people are fully entitled to their opinion and its ALWAYS worth seeing if their view has weight, or at least having a civil discussion as to why you disagree. (which it looks like you have gone on to do in this thread)

I am aware this must have been a stressful few months for you Paul, and this isn't the first emotional response I have seen from you in the past couple of weeks....but its time to pull your shit together, rise above it all and soldier on. Oh and please don't leave the forum! regardless of disagreements you may have, your voice and opinion is very welcome and respected here.

-DJ


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## Dr.Quest (Nov 29, 2013)

Hannes_F @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> Synesthesia @ Thu Nov 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Its pretty depressing reading some of these posts to be honest.
> ...



I pretty sure this is not just stemming from this thread but started in the disrespectful and negative comments in the Hans Zimmer Percussion release post. There were some depressing posts there. It would be hard not to take comments personally after working so long and hard on a library. When Christian wrote he had been using the library in anger for the last 2 days after the first round of of comments on the initial demos, I could only imagine banging those keys thinking about that. There is a level of respect that seems to get lost on the interweb. You can't get the same nuance as sitting in a pub sharing a couple of pints. It's human nature to react the way we do but when we have the filter of the net, things just get lost.
I hope some day to have a pint with the Spitfire lads and talk about music and life. It would be just wonderful.
Cheers for the holiday, lads,
J


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## Arbee (Nov 29, 2013)

Wow, I haven't really paid a lot of attention to this thread because my answer to the original poster's question is "no, I'm not". Not because I don't totally admire and respect the Spitfire team and their products, just that my taste doesn't align with Spitfire's sonic philosophy. Can't we just leave it at a basic but respectful yes/no level on a post like this? :shock: 


.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 29, 2013)

Arbee @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> Wow, I haven't really paid a lot of attention to this thread because my answer to the original poster's question is "no, I'm not". Not because I don't totally admire and respect the Spitfire team and their products, just that my taste doesn't align with Spitfire's sonic philosophy. Can't we just leave it at a basic but respectful yes/no level on a post like this? :shock:
> 
> 
> .



A yes/no thread would be better handled by a poll, and what would be the point of it? 



.


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## Arbee (Nov 29, 2013)

OK, being literal you're absolutely right - I guess the point of the OP's question was to rouse the Spitfire fans into another round of euphoric frenzy. Perhaps that's why some of the responses may have struck some emotional nerves.


.


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## dcoscina (Nov 29, 2013)

Dr.Quest @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> I pretty sure this is not just stemming from this thread but started in the disrespectful and negative comments in the Hans Zimmer Percussion release post. There were some depressing posts there. It would be hard not to take comments personally after working so long and hard on a library. When Christian wrote he had been using the library in anger for the last 2 days after the first round of of comments on the initial demos, I could only imagine banging those keys thinking about that. There is a level of respect that seems to get lost on the interweb. You can't get the same nuance as sitting in a pub sharing a couple of pints. It's human nature to react the way we do but when we have the filter of the net, things just get lost.
> I hope some day to have a pint with the Spitfire lads and talk about music and life. It would be just wonderful.
> Cheers for the holiday, lads,
> J



Totally agree. 

There is a time and place for addressing issues with a release but to do it on a release thread or one that covers an upcoming release like this one, shows little tact or civility. The best thing to do is email the developer directly. I've had a couple questions of late and Christian got back to me within hours. Sometimes it's a mere few minutes. Airing this stuff out publicly when it's unsolicited smacks of childish grandstanding. 

There's a lot of license being taken under the guise of "free speech" but truthfully it's tactless, juvenile, and cruel rhetoric. 

What truly boggles my mind is that Frederick is a smart, thoughtful guy. He began this forum as a place where musicians can come together and discuss all matters music. Of late, I've seen very little of that which is why I seldom post and frequent this site.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 29, 2013)

Arbee @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> OK, being literal you're absolutely right - I guess the point of the OP's question was to rouse the Spitfire fans into another round of euphoric frenzy. Perhaps that's why some of the responses may have struck some emotional nerves.
> 
> 
> .



I am always a fan of people elevating an art and I think Spitfire s doing that- however, if you can't take the heat, get out of that high end gourmet kitchen you've built.


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## Dr.Quest (Nov 29, 2013)

dcoscina @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> Dr.Quest @ Fri Nov 29 said:
> 
> 
> > I pretty sure this is not just stemming from this thread but started in the disrespectful and negative comments in the Hans Zimmer Percussion release post. There were some depressing posts there. It would be hard not to take comments personally after working so long and hard on a library. When Christian wrote he had been using the library in anger for the last 2 days after the first round of of comments on the initial demos, I could only imagine banging those keys thinking about that. There is a level of respect that seems to get lost on the interweb. You can't get the same nuance as sitting in a pub sharing a couple of pints. It's human nature to react the way we do but when we have the filter of the net, things just get lost.
> ...



+1 on that. Nice post, Dave. Classy.
J


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 29, 2013)

Daniel James @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> I see emotional responses like this from developers as a slippery slope...its essentially playing the sympathy card. On an open forum like this where people want to openly discuss sample libraries and their opinions on them its almost not fair to have the developer of said product come into the discussion and deliver an emotional speech. All that does is firstly play on peoples human nature to want to comfort people and say nice things, to make them feel better, which doesn't help any of the real hard points people have to sink in. And secondly it turns people against those who wish to share an opinion, it makes them look like a bad guy, even when the concern is genuine, leading to less genuine people wanting to post here.
> 
> I know how it feels, I have had people shit all over my work and my sample library and it really does hurt (not playing sympathy card here) but you have to accept that people are fully entitled to their opinion and its ALWAYS worth seeing if their view has weight, or at least having a civil discussion as to why you disagree. (which it looks like you have gone on to do in this thread)
> 
> I am aware this must have been a stressful few months for you Paul, and this isn't the first emotional response I have seen from you in the past couple of weeks....but its time to pull your shit together, rise above it all and soldier on. Oh and please don't leave the forum! regardless of disagreements you may have, your voice and opinion is very welcome and respected here.



This is a good post, Dan. We're all human - grumpy and impatient customers, tired and emotional developers! I don't think the intention was to play the sympathy card, I've no doubt it was genuine hurt and exasperation. It's the law of unintended consequences I guess.

But I've begun to wonder... there could be a little more at work here than bad mannered customers and / or overworked developers. Paul was super-kind and emailed me within minutes of me posting that I was worried I didn't have up to date versions of Sable, with all the links I need. That speed and service can't be faulted. But it's very time intensive for Spitfire to do this to every enquiry, whether on a forum or on their own ticket system. As I'd mentioned, I'd raised this in a ticket earlier and got a prompt reply, but somehow the essence of my question got missed, and I wasn't told that my problem had already been fixed some months earlier! Chances are my ticket was the 50th of the day and I slipped through the over-tired cracks. As a result - yeah, I did wonder about all those shiny new libraries when I had a non-useable patch I'd been super-interested in since the day I first read about the library. 

So what if those who complained earlier have had their problems fixed back in May and missed it too? On the one hand - a customer's frustration that their libraries are still 1.0 and need work while a new library is released every week. On the other, a developer's frustration that their tireless work receives no gratitude and in fact rudeness.

It's only a theory of course, but the explanation might be that there needs to be a simple one-stop-shop for customers to be able to check that they're on latest version. When submitting a support ticket, when you enter your product, an auto box could come up pointing to latest versions to make sure you are up to date. Hopefully this would save Spitfire a host of support tickets - and grouchy customers sounding off either directly or on public forums.

Might be wrong, but its offered in a constructive spirit in the light of my own experiences. Spitfire are one of the most highly regarded developers for good reasons, here's to 2014


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## korgscrew (Nov 29, 2013)

A alternate Godwin law comes to mind in this forum sometimes. 

It's an easy place to hide and instigate arguments. Just for the fun of it. The Berlin strings thread comes to mind. 

What was a innocent thread, turned into something monstrous Within 6 posts! Also the same same thread where a saw a two faced Sasha Knorr. To say he is a spokesman for OT, he is pretty quick to draw the gun for an argument. 

Paul's British, we are either thugs or softies. I'm a softie and proud!


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## Dr.Quest (Nov 29, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> Daniel James @ Fri Nov 29 said:
> 
> 
> > I see emotional responses like this from developers as a slippery slope...its essentially playing the sympathy card. On an open forum like this where people want to openly discuss sample libraries and their opinions on them its almost not fair to have the developer of said product come into the discussion and deliver an emotional speech. All that does is firstly play on peoples human nature to want to comfort people and say nice things, to make them feel better, which doesn't help any of the real hard points people have to sink in. And secondly it turns people against those who wish to share an opinion, it makes them look like a bad guy, even when the concern is genuine, leading to less genuine people wanting to post here.
> ...



Again, a very thoughtful and classy post. 
J.


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## muziksculp (Nov 29, 2013)

Hi,

I'm very excited, and happy to see Spitfire announce their upcoming large section Strings Library : *Mural* 

I'm Looking forward to hear, and know more about it in the near future. 

_Spitfire_ is one of my favorite sample developers, they have amazing service, constantly updating their products, and offering superb sounding, and First-Class libraries. 

Many Thanks to Spitfire o-[][]-o 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Daniel James (Nov 29, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Fri Nov 29 said:


> Daniel James @ Fri Nov 29 said:
> 
> 
> > I see emotional responses like this from developers as a slippery slope...its essentially playing the sympathy card. On an open forum like this where people want to openly discuss sample libraries and their opinions on them its almost not fair to have the developer of said product come into the discussion and deliver an emotional speech. All that does is firstly play on peoples human nature to want to comfort people and say nice things, to make them feel better, which doesn't help any of the real hard points people have to sink in. And secondly it turns people against those who wish to share an opinion, it makes them look like a bad guy, even when the concern is genuine, leading to less genuine people wanting to post here.
> ...



Oh I am almost positive it was a genuine emotional post. I was just pointing out that its existence in a thread about one of their products, where people are voicing genuine concerns and opinion, takes the thread through a kind of emotional blackmail....For example there might have been someone who wanted to post an opinion but then didn't want to hurt Paul's feeling....you see what I mean? it kind of dilutes what people really want to say...which doesn't help anyone. 

People should allowed to dislike products and, if its relevant, voice why they hold that position without fear of being vilified for doing so.

Someone above mentioned above that people are taking free speech too far....I slightly disagree in the context of this thread. Free speech is not only saying the good but the bad too. It allows those on the fence to hear an argument from both sides. Its only going to far when you start attacking someone on a personal level....products, companies, opinions are all fair topics for discussion. Positive or Negative.

-DJ


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## Stephen Rees (Nov 30, 2013)

I think really all it needs is to take a pause before you hit the 'post' button and honestly answer the question 'Is this post really in the spirit of musicians helping musicians?'.

I know if I'd done that I would have posted quite differently on a number of occasions.

As for Mural - I'm really interested to hear it, but I have the Albions and Sable as a formidable Spitfire strings weapon already. I am probably more curious to hear what the remainder of the brass and particularly the woodwind will sound like when we have the opportunity to hear them.


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## FriFlo (Nov 30, 2013)

Ok, Paul. Nice, that we can get back to a normal discussion. I will gladly get into more detail what I was talking about:
For the matter of "shouting while visiting your shop" I think that lies in your perspective and written text leaves more room for interpretation, as you don't hearse the tone of my voice. My initial post here was definitively not meant to be rant, but rather some careful thought. Shouting on the internet is by the way defined with writing BOLD, which wasn't the case.
In the past when I made comments about possible improvements they have been implemented in later updates on many occasions. I am not saying, I invented these features, as other people might have gotten that idea by themselves. I just want to emphasize, that many of my concerns have been taken seriously and therefore cannot be a rant! In fact, I was the one to suggest a script to trigger the sforzando hall trigger in your BML Horns library ... Again, I am not claiming you took the idea from me, but you certainly recognized it, as you even replied to my post.
As for the comparison to 8dio: I explicitly wrote, that SF DIDN'T show a lack of updates up to this point! But many people seem to be pretty lazy at reading thoroughly, therefore misinterpreted me in this matter. All I said was that SF recently put out so many releases in a short time, that I hope it will not change there good attitude towards updates. just a simple concern, that's all ...
Tweaking the patches and basic functionality was both towards the fact, that there are some feature of other SF libraries that have to find their way to Sable (and other libraries). E.g. I would really like the sfz hall trigger to find its way to the percussion (to get specific to the roll patches). Also, compared to say VSL player the functionality and tweak ability of your general scripting IS indeed basic. Wouldn't it be great to have e.g. speed control to select legato transitions? Again, you don't have to share my opinion, but I think I have the right to speak out, what I think. Also, I did not address the legato scripting quality, but I find it essential that there will be a big legato instrument with all the legato patches form vol 1 - 3. Otherwise you simply won't be able to switch to different transitions within one melodically line. So, again, there is nothing to be insulted about, it's just my opinion on what needs to be done which is a pretty long way from the current status.
I would definitively stop buying SF libraries, if there would be an attitude like "our sound is gorgeous, so take it or StFU", but I have high hope, this will actually be NOT the case.
Finally, I hope we can avoid clashes like these. We are all human and I can understand a temporary frustration. I want apologize for the "crying like a sissy part", which was also an emotional response on my part. in return I hope you will not be frustrated every time I post some critique towards SF (e.g. I don't like the solo strings and I don't feel bad about saying this, as this is simply my opinion, which you don't have to share, but respect it).
Peace!


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## Ryan (Nov 30, 2013)

Stephen Rees @ 30/11/2013 said:


> As for Mural - I'm really interested to hear it, but I have the Albions and Sable as a formidable Spitfire strings weapon already. I am probably more curious to hear what the remainder of the brass and particularly the woodwind will sound like when we have the opportunity to hear them.



Yeah, I´m still awaiting the rest of the BML woods and brass. Would love to hear a "short" demo of them soon.

Mural: I´ve been waiting and hoping that SF had that in mind! Looking forward. 

Gonna work 5x more to get some savings up for the upcoming releases. 

Best
Ryan


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## FriFlo (Nov 30, 2013)

And thanks for your post, DJ! This is exactly what I mean. There will always be some guys coming in defense of there favorite library or dev, bashing some other posters opinions. But it is unnecessary that developers have support that, as it is actually NOT in there interest to have no actual feedback and critique, other than "wow, that sounds great!". Threads like these just annoy me, because I need to explain, why I am entitled to have an opinion and say it out loud.


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## dcoscina (Nov 30, 2013)

You chaps can rationalize all you want but you are employing somewhat of a straw man to substantiate your POV. I don't think anyone here is saying those with concerns cannot voice them but it's HOW and WHEN which is continually the issue here.

I cannot count the number of times things have degenerated into a virtual Wimbledon class tennis match with barbs bouncing back and forth like a Murray/Nadal exchange. 

If someone started a thread entitled "Wish list for Spitfire Audio" I think that would open up the floor for discussion, though if I were to author such a thread, I'd leave it for at least a week after the company has come out with a major release like their HZ Percussion library as a matter of good manners. If it's something that's more immediate (recognizing that many here depend on their libraries to deliver projects), Spitfire, just like CineSamples or Project SAM, has stellar CS. They respond very quickly to questions. 

Once again, a lot of this has to do with the uneasy trend that most of western culture is moving towards which is a self entitled, "need to have it now" view point. There's also a correlation between the development of online instant purchases and the growing lack of impulse control that extends towards typing responses in haste. I know a few touched upon this earlier. 

As we move into December and towards the holidays, it would be great if everyone observed a modicum of civility when articulating one's concerns over a particular product.

And perhaps it would be nice to give developers a little latitude to react emotionally when you repeatedly run their baby over with a bus shortly after its birth, figuratively speaking of course.


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## Daniel James (Nov 30, 2013)

dcoscina @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> You chaps can rationalize all you want but you are employing somewhat of a straw man to substantiate your POV. I don't think anyone here is saying those with concerns cannot voice them but it's HOW and WHEN which is continually the issue here.
> 
> I cannot count the number of times things have degenerated into a virtual Wimbledon class tennis match with barbs bouncing back and forth like a Murray/Nadal exchange.
> 
> ...



While I see where you are coming from about timing I think what you are suggesting is probably the worst thing you can do. If I library comes out and people have issues with it they should be well within their right to discuss it openly. They shouldn't have to hold off for a few weeks for fear of hurting the feelings of the developer. The point of a discussion thread on a product is so that people can share their experiences, their problems, their favorite bits etc so that others who have not yet bought it can get a feeling if its for them...lets say for example a library doesnt have a popular feature on it....the company wont advertise that fact obviously, then someone buys it only to find out it doesnt do what they expected, they then share that experience publically, giving people who may have also wanted that feature a chanse to avoid wasting their money....WHICH THEN the company sees and will either accept that loss of customer OR consider adding said feature. Then the product becomes more appealing, people are happy more people buy it etc. 

You see? negativity has its place. And again from a developer standpoint I know how it feels, but the problem is regardless of how hard you worked on something or how much you want people to like it...you are charging them money (quite alot in some cases) to use it, you are not offering it up as charity, you are not doing them a favor, if they are unhappy at something they are within their rights to express that, either in the hope of a change or a warning to other people. They are not digging in at you personally, they have issues with the product that they paid for. If I goto a restaurant and the food tastes like shit I am not going to sit quietly in fear of not hurting the chefs feelings...I should get what I paid for. If I get a free meal at a soup kitchen and it tastes like shit I will accept it for what it is as they are doing me a favor. 

There is a difference between feeling like you didn't receive what you were promised in a product, be that feature sets or stability (bugs etc) and being 'entitled'

-DJ


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## Rv5 (Nov 30, 2013)

Be mindful of the energy you put into responding to some text on a screen written by a complete stranger.

This 'connectivity', vastly un-natural and new (thousands of years compared to this last decade or so) offers up whole new issues and obviously we are affected by what can be communicated to us through whatever means. Though not always easy, perhaps reflecting on where we are looking for fullfilment can help ease off the bad feelings from what can be insensitive and selfish comments, or lost in translation. Certainly, I would consider the internet to be such a place as a whole, given my understanding of human interaction. 

There are some darned lovely people around here that is for sure, but there is a strong filter on when reading through what is 'said', to find what resonates with me, after all, what you're reading now, is just some text on a screen written by a complete stranger with his/her own issues, experiences, motivations and intentions.


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## dcoscina (Nov 30, 2013)

Couldn't agree more RV5. 

Daniel, I do understand what you are saying as well but I'm just pointing out that a thread dedicated to suggestions/improvements would have been more in order to address concerns with SF products rather than this thread

Edit- I will add that obviously part of this is personality driven. I've eaten a restaurants that were very expensive but I haven't raised a ruckus but rather decided not to return again. Recently I did find a hair in my food at a very good restaurant but I politely asked the waitress for a replacement. I didn't freak out, I just politely asked for another plate. She was very apologetic and I left it at that. No harm done. However the manager came shortly after and said lunch for me and my pal (who ordered alcohol too so not a cheap lunch) was on them. 

I work 70+ hours at a day job in the service industry. To be honest, I'm willing to do more for the person who addresses issues in a civil rational manner. It makes the day go better. Paul and all the Spitfire folks are ostensibly in the service industry too. I guess we all are to some extent. Dealing with issues, roadblocks and customer resolution is a fact of life. If our respective customers broach these issues civil like it really makes everyone's day a wee bit better, yes?


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## Daniel James (Nov 30, 2013)

dcoscina @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> Couldn't agree more RV5.
> 
> Daniel, I do understand what you are saying as well but I'm just pointing out that a thread dedicated to suggestions/improvements would have been more in order to address concerns with SF products rather than this thread
> 
> ...



Oh of course I understand that things like bug requests and feature improvements would be better served however if they pop up in a relevant way on a thread like this I would class them as a valid assessment. I think it was along the lines of, why are they making more libs when x y z is still broken, which is a very valid point and I think worthy of mention and response. 

I get your point about things being personality driven and thats why I said that emotional responses from developers are a slippery slope, because its playing to the sympathetic part in most of us here because we are, in general, all good people here. Its in our nature to be extra nice to people when they show their pain, but in a topic where legitimate concerns are being discussed it helps no one if we are forced to step around egg shells in fear of hurting feelings. 

Also your example of going to a restaurant where you didn't kick up a fuss but from then on refused to return...Don't you think if you made your problems known, they might have adjusted what was poor about there service, and improve to keep your custom. Also while you didn't kick up a fuss then and there if you were having a chat with friends in the pub and someone is asking if he should go there, you would probably share your poor experience with him there. Thats essentially what is going on here on the forum, the group of friends at the pub. Now imagine there was the chef of the pub behind you in the pub and overhears, then gives a sob story about how he tries so hard but nobody loves him, and then continues to hang with your group...you are no longer going to discuss the restaurant, even if your friend had more questions about it to make up his own mind if he wants to go.

I agree that people are more inclined to work with the polite however sometimes there isn't a really polite way to point out problems with things. You have to tell it like it is, and developers should realize that its not an attack on them personally. Its like when a composer has a cue refused and you have that blunt conversation with a director and he tells you where it sucks....that hurts too, but you knuckle down and get over it. Not wallow in self pity and beg for sympathy from the producers. It's a tough world but like I said you just gotta pull your shit together, chin up, soldier on.

-DJ


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## Walid F. (Nov 30, 2013)

Perhaps this needs its own thread :D Won't be much order if people search for Mural info and finds philosophy about discussion and about developer-user interaction. 

Just say'n.


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## kb123 (Nov 30, 2013)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but someone raised an issue without specific details on Sable, others chimed in and said it was a problem too. Andy, the SF rep responsible has asked for details so that the issue can be investigated further - Is that not sufficient action to deal with problem at the present time?

Its pretty clear to me that there are other personal agendas going on here else the discussion of the thread would return to its original intention.

As someone involved in supporting products, there is no better or faster way to receive help with an issue than raising it with the support desk - its been said a million times before, and its a fact. While it might be good sport to pontificate on forums, it doesn't get issues resolved quickly, and is best reserved as a last resort when all other avenues have proven unproductive.


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## dcoscina (Nov 30, 2013)

To get back on topic, I cannot wait to hear more about the upcoming Mural. Will the size of the strings be noticeably larger than the existing Albion I strings. I know, sort of a stupid question but I'm attempting to steer this boat back on course.

One of the things I appreciate about the Albion line of strings is that there's some great detail in the sustained samples. You can really hear the bows on the strings especially at lower dynamic levels. For me, and I think a few others, I tend to gravitate towards the sustained longs as opposed to legato patches and leave those for those lyrical phrases. 

When Paul gives us more info on Monday about this upcoming release, I'm sure it will make us all even more excited about Q1 of 2014. 

Cheers!


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## wanmingyan (Nov 30, 2013)

Stephen Rees @ November 30th 2013 said:


> As for Mural - I'm really interested to hear it, but I have the Albions and Sable as a formidable Spitfire strings weapon already. I am probably more curious to hear what the remainder of the brass and particularly the woodwind will sound like when we have the opportunity to hear them.




Hmm...what exactly is Mural? :? It seems like a First Chair library to me but then i saw that it consisted of 60 string players...any ideas on what exactly this lib is? I am confused...

-WMY :0


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## AC986 (Nov 30, 2013)

wanmingyan @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> Hmm...what exactly is Mural? :? -WMY :0



Hopefully it won't be The Last Supper.


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## jcs88 (Nov 30, 2013)

To be honest, I find Spitfire's products really confusing. I can't remember which product is which, and they all seem to have a little bit of everything in modules


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## paulmatthew (Nov 30, 2013)

Mural Symphonic Strings I believe is supposed to be the larger orchestra version of what Sable is. I imagine it will be similar to the original to the Albion 1 String section , but with quite a few more articulations. Not too much has been said about the library so far.


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## TSU (Nov 30, 2013)

jcs88 @ 11.30.2013 said:


> To be honest, I find Spitfire's products really confusing. I can't remember which product is which, and they all seem to have a little bit of everything in modules



Just read some stuff on the Spitfire website.

Mural... guys, this is game-changing library.
At least for me, this changes everything.
I have all three Albions and Sable, but Mural is just unite them all.
Albions is for unisons.
Sable is for chamber, detailed, divisi writing.
Mural is separated big symphonic sections.
Keep in mind that every library have they unique character and performance.
Plus we can layer everything in a many different ways.
Each real performance is unique depending on situation.
So there will never be too much different recordings.
Before the announcment I was in a confusion about big separated sections.
But now all things in a right places.
To be honest I already have loose all hopes about symphonic strings for Spitfire.
But they surprised me as always.


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## park bench (Nov 30, 2013)

> Not too much has been said about the library so far.


Probably because it was only announced a week ago...

I'm interested.


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## skyforestblaze (Nov 30, 2013)

jcs88 @ Sat Nov 30 said:


> To be honest, I find Spitfire's products really confusing. I can't remember which product is which, and they all seem to have a little bit of everything in modules



I felt the same way not long ago, but after watching the walkthrough video's on SF's youtube channel, i now see the big picture of Albion+BML. I suggest watching the Sable Albion Overlay patch video in particular because it's an eye/ear opener 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1LlMeylx0Q


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## Kralc (Nov 30, 2013)

Phew, fun thread! But to answer the original question:

Hell yes.

It's basically exactly what I've wanted since Albion I. Spitfire sound, separate section strings.


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## germancomponist (Nov 30, 2013)

I tell here my little story: 

To this day, I use old string libraries. All the stuff from my friend Peter Siedlaczek, EWQLSO Platinum, Sonic Implants, Miroslav, Gary Garritan etc . 

Some time ago I had a nice exchange with RePeat about string libraries. He had recommended to me Spitfire and he showed me a very convincing with examples. 

I like the sound of the new CineSamples library and am going to buy this. 

When Spitfire their new library have finished, then I'm going to buy this as well. 

Everything I've heard from Spitfire I like. It is very good, very very good!


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 30, 2013)

Hi guys, just drove back from my wife's parents for Thanksgiving, which is the reason why I didn't get back to you before...

Wow, once again, communicating over the internet can really lead to confusion, and miscommunication!

First of all, I apologize for having pissed off Paul.
My intent was certainly not to hurt anyone.
And especially the SF team, which, as should be obvious from all of my posts here, I have always praised and defended.
On the top of that, I find Paul to be one of the most gracious people here...

I also apologize for not expressing myself clearly in my frustrated post.
I had spent way too much time trying to shape a very simple viola line and posted too quickly (I did try different legato speeds BTW).
I never said, nor meant to say that the legato was bad. I said it "needed to be better" where I should have said "could be improved upon"
Late night, a bit buzzed and here you go.

What do I feel could get better?
The connectivity between notes maybe...
I certainly do not want to start a developers' war, but to me, something along the line of LASS' legato is what I am hoping for. Talking to Andrew about it, he told me that he spent an incredible amount of time fine tuning the LASS legato and it shows.

Tomorrow, I will go back to the line that gave me a hard time and I will send Andy an audio and MIDI file, to see what he thinks.

I LOVE and own just about everything SF has produced and will continue to do so.
My criticism was a wish for something that is already excellent to become even better.
I agree with the comment made that we will never pass a certain barrier of realism using samples, but virtual instruments keep getting better and pushing the limits is what has taken us this far already.

Much love to the SF team, we all realize how hard you work at it and you deserve all the success that you are getting!

Happy Thanksgiving!


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## dcoscina (Nov 30, 2013)

Great post Patrick


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## milesito (Nov 30, 2013)

This is going to be tough guys. I own sable for school and have really loved incorporating it into my projects. I would love to get mural as a following but I feel that the cinestrings method of programming is very quick and logical - using velocities to change string dynamics. I am sort of torn at the moment. Any strong opinions? I own cinebrass pro and it totally works for me working between longs and shorts without keyswitching. Is that patented or could spitfire do something similar (or have a second programming mode)?


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## valexnerfarious (Nov 30, 2013)

no doubt in my mind..mural will be mine


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## TSU (Nov 30, 2013)

milesito @ 12.1.2013 said:


> This is going to be tough guys. I own sable for school and have really loved incorporating it into my projects. I would love to get mural as a following but I feel that the cinestrings method of programming is very quick and logical - using velocities to change string dynamics. I am sort of torn at the moment. Any strong opinions? I own cinebrass pro and it totally works for me working between longs and shorts without keyswitching. Is that patented or could spitfire do something similar (or have a second programming mode)?



Sorry if this sounds harsh... but... why not to just read the manuals of instruments you have? You can set up your Spitfire instruments to react to velocity and modwheel as the CineBrass reacts.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 1, 2013)

I bought Albion I the month it came out. Since then I have received FIVE FREE updates.

1. Content has been added.

2. New approaches to multis, or organization of articulations have been made or changed.

3. Tuning problems fixed (remember the brass?)

4. And on top of that, I still have all five versions if I ever need to open old projects or just prefer older versions. I actually liked the multis they were developing and still use them sometimes.

I'm not just trying to take up for Spitfire, (actually it bothers me that NI releases libraries that never see updates - sorry if that bothers anyone), but Spitfire doesn't strike me as only being in it for the money. I once asked Paul about his computer rig and a few days later a video was posted on YouTube where he did a complete rig rundown called "Using Plogue with Logic". That was extremely helpful and generous. It didn't make them any money, but was very valuable to me.

At the same time, these guys need to make money, make payroll and grow their company. I know a little more about this then anyone might think. You can't blame a company for quickly moving forward especially when they are releasing updates for older products. Spitfire has released a ton of updates from what I can tell. If a product doesn't work the way you want it to, that doesn't mean it's not finished.

People are going to get emotional here. But as friendly as some developers are, it's also business. Know where to draw the line.

My two cents
Thank you


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## snattack (Dec 2, 2013)

I guess bashing and complaining on developers comes from the fact that most of us working in the professional field sometimes has extremely tight deadlines. This result in an emotional relationship to all the libraries we work with, because 1. it stresses THE HELL out of at least me when I'm working on a project and there's just loads of problems, and 2. the better it works, the better it gives flow to our creative process = faster & more fun gigs.

For me it's been Hollywood Strings and PLAY that's been the problem all my years, so for me it simply doesn't matter if other people like it: in an emotional way I HATE IT, because it's put me in stressful situations too many times, and because it was expensive and turned out unusable for me. That's not an excuse for using a disrespectful tone, but it's an explanation why people here burst out into criticism without substance sometimes, and I guess you'll have to live with that. We're all humans, and (hopefully) more emotional ones than most, which gives us the opportunity & gift to create.

For me, this forum works as much as one of the absolutely best sources of knowledge in the field, not the least as a place where to express my opinions/read opinions to/from people in the same situations as I am. There are few people I know in the music business in Sweden that are more than OK orchestral sampling programmers - not even in the professional TV/video game-gigs - so this is essentially all I have, and this forum has taught me massively, and that because of the free and open climate of debate.

I've had some issues with the Spitfire products, but they've just been so small that I've been able to work around them, in my opinion they're generally very well programmed and flexible, and not to say least: fantastic sounding in most contexts. I've adressed some whishes in the forum here recently to add a volume ADSR to the main interface in harp & perc, we'll just have to see if Paul and the other guys takes that into consideration in a future update.


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## skyforestblaze (Dec 2, 2013)

> In fact, we have something pretty cool up our sleeves for Sable and for Mural. I won't go into detail now, as I'm going to put a little taster up online on Monday.



I don't know about all you guys, but i'm ready for this morsel! :D


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## jamwerks (Dec 2, 2013)

A couple suggestions for Mural: The same number of shorts (3!) across all the sections (Vln-Celli at least). It's not like Vln. I's play more shorts than the others. Trills up to a P4th (Vln -Celli). Love the way you did the two starting point with Sable.


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## Mike Connelly (Dec 2, 2013)

I definitely agree with Guy that there can be issues with knowing if you have the latest version of a given library (not unique to SF). Some libraries have started putting the version number somewhere in the kontakt interface, which is really helpful. Maybe it is somewhere in Sable but I haven't been able to find it. Along with that it would be great on the website to have a list of all the latest versions of each library to make it easier to see if you have the latest.

As for discussing issues with a library, there are valid concerns on both sides. These libraries have a huge number of samples, probably thousands of legato intervals including different variations based on dynamics. Certainly any library this big can have some samples or transitions that need work, and some users may come across them while others don't based on the sheer size of the library. On the other hand, when users do find a problem it's best to be as specific as possible, even listing specific notes, modwheel values, etc so it's easy for someone else to either confirm the problem or clarify that they don't have it. One minor issue I have noticed with some of the legato is that some portamento intervals on some instruments don't sound any different from the legato versions. I don't know if that's an issue with programming or scripting, or if it's not an issue at all, and some of the ports were just performed such that they don't sound much different from the legato. Obviously not a huge issue but it's a little funny playing the instruments and sometimes getting that result.

For user communication with developers, I thought audiobro had a great idea doing a user forum that wasn't open to the public. Users can air out as much dirty laundry as they want and there's no worry about it giving a bad impression to potential buyers who might read the "fix this" threads. Support tickets are great but for a user it's nice to talk with other users and see if they are running into the same things.


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## dedersen (Dec 2, 2013)

The amount of free (and awesome!) updates I have so far received from Spitfire is pretty much second-to-none. Just grabbed the new Albion and Harp versions today, that I had somehow missed. I agree that keeping track of the newest versions could be made easier, the email announcements tend to get lost in my inbox unless I update immediately. I've added a gmail tag for this purpose, but I tend to forget to tag the emails.  This goes for all developers, I guess.


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## davidgary73 (Dec 4, 2013)

Spitifre uploaded a video on Sable updates and Paul talk about Mural as well.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 4, 2013)

Ooh good find, David! Very excited about the Sable update, I'll start a new thread for that though to keep this Mural-based, hopefully.


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## SeanM1960 (Dec 6, 2013)

The problem I have with SF's long legato passages is the loop points. EW got them right, Proj SAM got them right. Cinesamples got them right. SF hasn't. I love the sound of their libraries, but when you play a long legato passage, and pass the loop point, there is this extremely noticeable dip. And it can not be chalked up to "realism" - sorry. That's the only thing that will in all likelehood stop me from buying Mural. Otherwise, Id be all over it.


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## Enyak (Dec 8, 2013)

Sean, I find all strings libs have that legato-sustain "dip" except Hollywood Strings. In the case of Spitfire, that dip can be tweaked pretty resonable by using their speed control to offset the sustain sample start to a point where it's already gotten more steady.

As for Mural. I doubt I will be able to pass that by even with all the other great libs around now. Sable continues to amaze me with its tone and realism. Everytime I think that maybe, just maybe SF libs are a tad too expensive they become such a go-to lib for me, that I wouldn't want to miss them.

Very excited to hear it.


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## quantum7 (Dec 8, 2013)

I've spent over 2k on Spitfire libs since 2012....and am not going to hold out any hope I'll be able to resist Mural. Spitfire just does sample libraries right!


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## Daniel James (Dec 8, 2013)

quantum7 @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> I've spent over 2k on Spitfire libs since 2012....and am not going to hold out any hope I'll be able to resist Mural. Spitfire just does sample libraries right!



Do you have the entire 'Air Studios' orchestra yet? haha I bet it sounds amazing, and I only just realized I have never tried to do an all Spitfire track before. I am looking forward to hearing what they sound like!

-DJ


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## SeanM1960 (Dec 8, 2013)

Enyak @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> Sean, I find all strings libs have that legato-sustain "dip" except Hollywood Strings.



That just simply is not true. EWQLSO does not have that dip. The strings in Symphobia do not have that dip. The strings in Cinestrings do not have that dip. You may find an occasional note, but that's rare.



Enyak @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> In the case of Spitfire, that dip can be tweaked pretty resonable by using their speed control to offset the sustain sample start to a point where it's already gotten more steady.



That isn't true either. You had me there for a sec, however. I actually had to go check this. But no. The speed control controls the transition from note to note - it has no bearing on the the sample's loop point.


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## Enyak (Dec 8, 2013)

If you do it right - like 80s film score magic. 

That's actually my favorite thing about them, SF is such a dead ringer for the wonderful instruments you hear on many older scores.


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## Enyak (Dec 8, 2013)

Sean, my bad! I think reducing the legato length will still be part of the dip-correcting process, but to alter the sustain offset you have to use higher velocities when legato-playing. Lower velocties will use the full sustain start. Even then there still will be a crossfade though, which is sadly never 100% perfect.

Actually, can you provide a recording of the effect? I'd give it a shot myself afterwards.


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## mozart999uk (Dec 18, 2013)

Shame they've changed the articulation mapping. I'll have to re-do all my vst expression maps :D


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## Patrick de Caumette (Dec 18, 2013)

SeanM1960 @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> The problem I have with SF's long legato passages is the loop points. EW got them right, Proj SAM got them right. Cinesamples got them right. SF hasn't. I love the sound of their libraries, but when you play a long legato passage, and pass the loop point, there is this extremely noticeable dip. And it can not be chalked up to "realism" - sorry. That's the only thing that will in all likelehood stop me from buying Mural. Otherwise, Id be all over it.



+1, and not just with legato. same issue with sustains as well, and I checked with Loegria low strings, hitting a low Eb-Bb pair. Looping is bumpy. Compared with CS2 and there, the looping is flawless.

I agree that a forum for users only would be a great idea.
Issues that many users experience gather momentum for a quick fix, while addressing the issue via support can sometimes go nowhere (i.e. like being told the issue must be with one's own setup...)

thank you for listening


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## blougui (Jan 5, 2014)

I know it's a tad to soon but would the price be aroune 299 pounds for volume 1, considering intro prices of previous libs of similar scope ?
I'm on the fence of acquiring an allround ensemble string lib to complement my EWQLSO. I'm toying with the idea of chosing between Adagietto, LASS lite (not the same range as ease of use is concerned but I love the sound of LASS, at least the different demos), CS 2 or Mural.

- Erik


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## feck (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm excited by virtually everything Spitfire does.


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## jamwerks (Jan 5, 2014)

blougui @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> I know it's a tad to soon but would the price be aroune 299 pounds for volume 1, considering intro prices of previous libs of similar scope ?


Hard to say but I'd imagine a price anywhere up to twice as much as Sable (per articulation). I'm sure those recording sessions with 16 players (V1) were very expensive. In retrospect, wish I'd purchased HZ Perc, to get that 25% voucher... :?


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## RiffWraith (Jan 5, 2014)

jamwerks @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> In retrospect, with I'd purchased HZ Perc, to get that 25% voucher... :?



Bear in mind, SF does not allow you to use a voucher during the intro price period.

I am calling a regular price of £799, with an intro price of £599.

>8o 

Cheers.


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## midi_controller (Jan 5, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Bear in mind, SF does not allow you to use a voucher during the intro price period.
> 
> I am calling a regular price of £799, with an intro price of £599.



Not true, I used my Sable voucher during the intro price for HZ Percussion, double the savings! Plus, I got an extra 25% off voucher to boot. Spitfire takes care of their early buyers for sure. :D


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## tack (Jan 5, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> I am calling a regular price of £799, with an intro price of £599.


If it ends up having similar features, that range of price would compete nicely with Berlin Strings. I'm in the market for a proper strings library but I'm in a holding pattern until Mural is released.

OTOH, knowing Spitfire's history of releasing these things as mulitple volumes, I sort of expect that for the same overall coverage as Berlin Strings, the net cost will end up being somewhere between 2 to 3 times more.

At least that would make the decision easier, since it would position Mural in a different category than what I'm looking for right now. (Though whenever I hear Spitfire's demos, my resolve to spend no more than certain amount always wavers a bit.)


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## RiffWraith (Jan 5, 2014)

midi_controller @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> RiffWraith @ Sun Jan 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Bear in mind, SF does not allow you to use a voucher during the intro price period.
> ...



Really? I thought I saw Paul say you couldn't do that. Perhaps I am wrong... :?


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## benmrx (Jan 5, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> midi_controller @ Mon Jan 06 said:
> 
> 
> > RiffWraith @ Sun Jan 05 said:
> ...



I believe the deal is that you can't use the voucher you're currently receiving for the purchase your currently making. However, if you have a voucher 'in the bank' you can use it at any time, including during an 'intro' price period. Might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's the deal.


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## Vik (Jan 5, 2014)

RiffWraith @ 6.1.2014 said:


> I am calling a regular price of £799, with an intro price of £599.


I recently read, about the Berlin lib, that they had been working on it for a number of months, but that the actual recording sessions lasted only two weeks (and that's for a very large library). 

Mural is in the BML range, so we're not talking about making an entirely new product - since it's based on Kontakt and an existing (BML) code set. If Sable is as good as it's users think it is (and I believe this is the case), it is well programmed – which means that a lot of the work for Mural is done already. 

Also - if I understand this right, it is not meant to replace another product or serve as a complete product, meaning that one will need other instruments as well, and maybe also the three Sable products for smaller sections (with fewer players). 

If I go for Spitfire, I'll probably go for both Mural and Sable... And who knows – after some time I may go for Berlin for the true adaptive legatos, LASS for the Sordinos and Auto Arranger, and Cinestrings for the Harmonics. And again – that's just the strings! So - if Spitfire want to be competitive, I think the price for Mural I will be lower than what you suggest.


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## blougui (Jan 6, 2014)

Woh, 599£ would definitely be out of my range - not to mention 799. Reason why I have to stay away from SF at the mo - and miss every single intro price as well, ah ah.
Adagietto intro will last till february the 1st so I'll have to decide. Anyway, I'm more convinced by the vids than by the demo - great compos, really really great but the overall sound is often not that different than SO plat, I mean with the sustains, not the legatos of course  Oh well, we'll see, they're all top notch instruments and if I'ld make money out of it I would'nt spend so much time on a fence 8)


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## EwigWanderer (Jan 6, 2014)

I like the fact that volume 1 will include all the sections and volume 2 additional articulations. Maybe Spitfire could release Lite version too from volume one? And have a upgrade path to full like Audiobro has.


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## AC986 (Jan 6, 2014)

With Mural I wonder if there will be any kind of divisi implementation at all. Or will it be just straight sections?


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## EwigWanderer (Jan 6, 2014)

adriancook @ 6th January 2014 said:


> With Mural I wonder if there will be any kind of didvid implementation at all. Or will it be just straight sections?



I think there were some info about it. That Mural and Sable would be compatible so you could write divisi. Then if Spitfire would update Solo Strings to match with Mural and Sable articulations that would be great.


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## AC986 (Jan 6, 2014)

EwigWanderer @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> adriancook @ 6th January 2014 said:
> 
> 
> > With Mural I wonder if there will be any kind of didvid implementation at all. Or will it be just straight sections?
> ...



Good idea Rami. I don't have the solo strings and had forgotten about that part of the Spitfire jigsaw.

With Sable you can already write divisi to give a full section, more or less. With Mural I am wondering how by adding Sable this would give you too many instruments. If Mural was split into desks that would be interesting.


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## JT (Jan 6, 2014)

I really curious to see what Mural brings to the table. Sable is my favorite string lib., but since I already have LASS, I really have to ask myself, do I need Mural. When is enough, enough with regards to similar libraries?

Regarding the discount vouchers, you definitely can use them during the intro price. When Sable was announced, I pre-ordered and got that bundle price, plus used a discount code. I couldn't have afforded it otherwise.


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## Darthmorphling (Jan 6, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> midi_controller @ Mon Jan 06 said:
> 
> 
> > RiffWraith @ Sun Jan 05 said:
> ...



You might have read him saying that you cannot get the EDU discount during the promotional period. that would be phenomenal if you could, but totally understand the reason for not allowing it.


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## maestro2be (Jan 6, 2014)

I am excited for it. I didn't jump on the Sable Bandwagon but I am also thinking of getting those at the same time. I just hope that they play nicely and don't have a large agressive jump in dynamics between layers. Did anywhere mention how many layers it will have?

Maestro2be


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## Lupez (Jan 7, 2014)

guys, 
can you please help me understand how Mural and the Albion string section would differ in sond and usage? 
I am a bit confused because the Sable description mentions Albion as the "base unit","ideal backdrop for BML" and now Mural comes out ...help!


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## Saxer (Jan 7, 2014)

it's sable with more strings - or albion with more detail, articulations, separate sections and the experience of a few more years in sampling and scripting. :wink:


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## Ryan (Jan 7, 2014)

Lupez @ 7/1/2014 said:


> guys,
> can you please help me understand how Mural and the Albion string section would differ in sond and usage?
> I am a bit confused because the Sable description mentions Albion as the "base unit","ideal backdrop for BML" and now Mural comes out ...help!



Albion high strings are 1.violins, 2.violins and violas all together in one patch. Meant to play the same melody line, and not to be "divisi orchestrated between those 3 families (1.vl, 2vl & violas).

Mural will give you all the separate families. Most likely to be:

1. Violins 16-18 players
2. Violins 14-16 players
Violas 10-12 players
Cellos 10-12 Players (maybe 8)
D.Bass 8-10 (maybe 6-8)

That way you could write more individual. Albion is a "short cut". Mural will become the new "base unit" (write for each family). 

Best
Ryan


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## Lupez (Jan 7, 2014)

Ryan @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> Lupez @ 7/1/2014 said:
> 
> 
> > guys,
> ...



Thanks a lot.
I am considering upgrading from the bundled Logic X library and it makes a lot more sense to go full BML - at least I wouldn't lose the ability to orchestrate with divisi.
Although I must admit I like the sound of the Hollywood series better - what I heard so far from the BML library didn't impress me as much.

Am I the only one that finds Sable a bit thin sounding?


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## Ryan (Jan 7, 2014)

Lupez @ 7/1/2014 said:


> Ryan @ Tue Jan 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Lupez @ 7/1/2014 said:
> ...



You could get it fast if you double them, transpose and do some tricks. 

In this video you could hear how I use it.
http://youtu.be/VXrBZj8MXlQ?t=2m45s

The reason for the asio-spikes was B2-reverb. Fixed now o-[][]-o 

I'm only using sable. Sometimes with a tad of Albion.


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## shapeshifter00 (Jan 7, 2014)

I wish I could buy it right away.. If I had the money I would, but for now I will focus on saving money for room treatment and monitors etc.


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## muk (Jan 7, 2014)

SilentBob @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> I would imagine that Sable plus Transpose Trick (possibly with Albion) may well compete against Mural.



We don't know anything about Mural yet, but I can't help but think the same: Sable with the transpose trick sounds awesome. Quite big on it's own, and yet very detailed. The only downside is that you loose the lowest couple of notes (which is a bummer though).


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## germancomponist (Jan 7, 2014)

muk @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> SilentBob @ Tue Jan 07 said:
> 
> 
> > I would imagine that Sable plus Transpose Trick (possibly with Albion) may well compete against Mural.
> ...



You can stretch the last sample in the mapping editor.... .


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## Jonathan Howe (Jan 7, 2014)

Does that also work with the legato patches though? I'd imagine there'd be trouble with the programming.


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## germancomponist (Jan 7, 2014)

TodayIWill @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> Does that also work with the legato patches though? I'd imagine there'd be trouble with the programming.



I don't know but I would experiment... .


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## Ryan (Jan 7, 2014)

muk @ 7/1/2014 said:


> SilentBob @ Tue Jan 07 said:
> 
> 
> > I would imagine that Sable plus Transpose Trick (possibly with Albion) may well compete against Mural.
> ...



yeah, sure! But again, think about orchestration. You would note leave those violins alone on that g-note, would you?


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## 1stClass2dRateComposer (Jan 7, 2014)

I am looking forward to Mural. FYI: these SOS reviews provide detailed information about what is in Albion 1 & 2. 

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct11/a ... albion.htm 

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb13/a ... oegria.htm


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## shapeshifter00 (Jan 7, 2014)

1stClass2dRateComposer @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> I am looking forward to Mural. FYI: these SOS reviews provide detailed information about what is in Albion 1 & 2.
> 
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct11/a ... albion.htm
> 
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb13/a ... oegria.htm




Thanks for the link, as an owner of both these libraries there was things I did not even know about.. :D


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## muk (Jan 7, 2014)

Ryan @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> yeah, sure! But again, think about orchestration. You would note leave those violins alone on that g-note, would you?



Not really sure if I understand what you mean. Are you saying it isn't too much of a problem because in a score the g won't be heard on the violins alone anyway? This may be so, but even when doubled with another/other instrument(s) it may be audible. And certainly the cello and basses may be used a great deal in their lowest register.

Gunther, thank you for the hint. This may be a convenient and convincing enough solution.


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## Rv5 (Jan 7, 2014)

The thought of Mural:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5D2tetZKeU

Very much looking forward to having a full orchestra with Spitfire libraries. Very excited here.


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## Casiquire (Jan 8, 2014)

Isn't it kind of a bad idea to stretch or transpose the samples in Sable? I remembered reading that they're sampled in minor thirds, so I assume that means each sample is stretched up a half step and down a half step. To avoid phasing you'd have to transpose your line by at least a minor third, but that means that, including the original sample stretching in the library, some of your samples are being stretched a full major third from their natural position.


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## SoundTravels (Jan 8, 2014)

Casiquire @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> Isn't it kind of a bad idea to stretch or transpose the samples in Sable? I remembered reading that they're sampled in minor thirds, so I assume that means each sample is stretched up a half step and down a half step. To avoid phasing you'd have to transpose your line by at least a minor third, but that means that, including the original sample stretching in the library, some of your samples are being stretched a full major third from their natural position.



No, they're a major second. If you open up the wrench you can see. Though, I know it would be twice the data, I really wish they had sampled every note...


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## germancomponist (Jan 8, 2014)

Casiquire @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> Isn't it kind of a bad idea to stretch or transpose the samples in Sable? I remembered reading that they're sampled in minor thirds, so I assume that means each sample is stretched up a half step and down a half step. To avoid phasing you'd have to transpose your line by at least a minor third, but that means that, including the original sample stretching in the library, some of your samples are being stretched a full major third from their natural position.



As a side note: I have and use some very old EMU samples what were recorded in minor thirds. You know what? It sounds perfect, awesome sound! The old EMU 6 French horns patch is killer! 

But to come back to the thread title: I think it is very cool what Spitfire is doing here. People who know me personally know that I am a big friend of the Samplemodeling stuff. But I am also a big friend of recordings, done in/on a real room/stage and I am a big fan of the Spitfire recordings. One thing is for sure: This library is the first lib what I will buy this year!


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## Graham Keitch (Jan 8, 2014)

I purchased all three vols of Sabel when first released - and since then, perc, horns and most recently the flutes. They have been largely unused because I've been so busy with choral stuff over the past 9 mths. Until a few days ago that is! 

I started to put a purely Spitfire template together the other day and am very pleased with the result. Sabel strings are so detailed and yet capable of a really big sound. They blend perfectly with the other instrument specific Spitfire libraries I own. The horns and flutes are beautiful too - as is the updated harp.

I need the oboe, clarinet, trumpet, bones and MURAL as a matter of urgency! All other purchases have been on hold!

Graham


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## RiffWraith (Jan 8, 2014)

SoundTravels @ Thu Jan 09 said:


> No, they're a major second.



Technically, they are a minor second.

I too wish they had sampled every note, but then you are looking at almost 2x the recording time, which either a) greatly lessens profit at the current price point, to the extent of someone questioning whether or not creating these sample libs is really worth it, or b) the price point nearly doubles.

Cheers.


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## jamwerks (Jan 8, 2014)

SoundTravels @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> Though, I know it would be twice the data, I really wish they had sampled every note...


I'm not sure that you really wish that, because it would be twice the hit on your ram, a big hit on cpu, for a probably undistinguishable difference in sound.

btw, I'm really looking forward to Murals different legati, and to the Sable update & 3b, supposedly the same legato functions as in Mural. The bar seams to have been raised a bit by Berlin Strings, hoping Spitfire can do honor to the Brits!


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## Jordan Gagne (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm sure Mural will be sick but I'm most anticipating the Trombones and Trumpets 8)


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## SoundTravels (Jan 8, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> SoundTravels @ Thu Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > No, they're a major second.
> ...




Errrr? How do you figure that? The chromatic scale is made of minor seconds... So that would be every note. The samples in Spitfire libs are all a whole-tone scale, so major seconds. Like in Sable one sample covers Ab and A-natural, and then the next sample, a major second away from Ab, covers Bb and B-natural. 

ST


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## park bench (Jan 8, 2014)

Spitfire samples every other note. Whole tones. Minor seconds. Adjacent keys on a ppiano. An ascending scale on every note sampled sound these pitches:
C-D-E-F#-G#-A#

just to clarify.


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## SoundTravels (Jan 8, 2014)

park bench @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> Spitfire samples every other note. Whole tones. Minor seconds. Adjacent keys on a ppiano. An ascending scale on every note sampled sound these pitches:
> C-D-E-F#-G#-A#
> 
> just to clarify.



but... wait... to clarify (?) You just contradicted yourself. A whole-tone C-D-E etc. is a major second. A minor second would be C to Db.


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## AC986 (Jan 8, 2014)

In a major scale there are two minor seconds. Third to the fourth and seventh to the eighth. Otherwise known as semi tones.


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## SoundTravels (Jan 8, 2014)

adriancook @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> In a major scale there are two minor seconds. Third to the fourth and seventh to the eighth. Otherwise known as semi tones.



OK, that's true... but? 

The part I'm trying to make sure is clear is the difference between a minor and a major second, which has gotten a bit muddled in this thread.

Spitfire doesn't record the samples based on a major scale, i.e. C D E F G A B C... (which is made up of major and minor seconds as you note)

They sample in whole-tones/major seconds, i.e. C D E F# G# A#

Minor seconds would be C C# D D# E etc. the chromatic scale.


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## AC986 (Jan 8, 2014)

Not specifically because when you are talking about intervals it's usually within the parameters of scale. Thus a chromatic scale is not explicitly afaik completed by minor intervals. Intervals have scales as their reference points. 
It's a weird and complex world . True, a semitone could technically be construed as a minor second but referenced to what?


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## SoundTravels (Jan 8, 2014)

adriancook @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> Not specifically because when you are talking about intervals it's usually within the parameters of scale. Thus a chromatic scale is not explicitly afaik completed by minor intervals. Intervals have scales as their reference points.
> It's a weird and complex world . True, a semitone could technically be construed as a minor second but referenced to what?



Granted, you could also call a semi-tone an augmented unison, as in C C#, so in some spelling situations that might be confusing for people to refer to the interval of a semitone as a minor second. Though, that's it's most common appearance. And we don't have words beyond whole-tone and semitone to name intervals, so you have to use the convention of minor-third, major-sixth etc. to describe larger intervals, so it just makes sense to keep that consistent among all intervals. Unless you are talking about 12-tone or set theory where you use numbers. Which makes my brain bleed :? 

But, What I'm really trying to say is that a whole-tone is definitely not a minor second as got stated above. And Spitfire samples in whole tones, not minor seconds as was also said above. 

They sample in a whole-tone scale, which technically is made up of all major seconds and one diminished third.


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## RiffWraith (Jan 8, 2014)

SoundTravels @ Thu Jan 09 said:


> But, What I'm really trying to say is that a whole-tone is definitely not a minor second as got stated above. And Spitfire samples in whole tones, not minor seconds as was also said above.




A whole tone is NOT a minor second - you are correct. However, SF samples in HALF tones - not whole tones.

Take the low strings from Albion, as one ex. The first sample is C. The next sample covers C# and D. The next sample covers D# and E. And so on. Each sample covers one half-step, or one half-tone, or a minor second.

C# > D is a half tone, and D# > E is a half tone. ie - each individual sample (save for that first C) is a minor second.

Cheers.


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## SoundTravels (Jan 8, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> SoundTravels @ Thu Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > But, What I'm really trying to say is that a whole-tone is definitely not a minor second as got stated above. And Spitfire samples in whole tones, not minor seconds as was also said above.
> ...



I think I get what you're saying. You're saying that the distance each sample occupies on the Kontakt keyboard map covers the interval of a minor second, as in this sample is streched over D# and E, which is a minor second. 

What I was saying is that the actual notes they sample are a major second/whole-tone apart, i.e. here's the stings playing an Ab, now we record the strings playing a Bb. Those notes are a whole tone apart, or spelled that way a major second.


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## RiffWraith (Jan 8, 2014)

I see where you are coming from. 

_the actual notes they sample are a major second/whole-tone apart..._

Yes, this is true. A major second/whole-tone *apart from one another*, tho.

If you sample every single note, you would say the sampling was done chromatically. I think we can easily agree on that. AFAIC: if you sample every other note, you would say the sampling was done in half-tones. If you sample one note and call that chromatic, you wouldn't say that the sampling of every other was done in whole-tones, would you?


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## SoundTravels (Jan 8, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Wed Jan 08 said:


> I see where you are coming from.
> 
> _the actual notes they sample are a major second/whole-tone apart..._
> 
> ...



To, me, since the chromatic scale is made up of half-tones, that would be confusing. If someone said they sampled (or played for that matter) in half-tones, that would mean chromatically. In whole tones would mean in a whole-tone scale, like C D E F# G# A# and it would mean the distance between each sampled note was a whole tone, or a major second. Since chromatic/half-tone/semitone mean the same thing I think it's confusing to refer to it that way when talking about notes that are a whole-tone apart. Might be me though...!

Also, as a complete noob, when I was trying to quote your post, I hit the "report" button... :oops: Is there a way to unreport? Makes it seem like I'm reeeeaaallly crazy about music theory terminology :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## RiffWraith (Jan 8, 2014)

If someone said to me they sampled in half-tones, I would assume they sampled every other note. 

"We sampled violins in half-tones" to me says that they sampled *G A B* etc. Because to me, 'half-tones' represents the interval of each recorded note - not the interval_ inbetween _each note. Maybe it's just a matter of semantics.

OMG - I was reported?!?!?!? :shock:


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## SoundTravels (Jan 8, 2014)

Yeah... sorry I busted you. 

Maybe it's just potato/potAHto. It messes my brain up to think of those samples as the interval they're stretched over, as the sample is just one static note. So to me it's a Bb that happens to be stretched to a B, then the next note is a C. So I think of the scale or the intervals of the notes. 

This just proves that Spitfire really should've sampled every note! We can't ever agree on how to name what they did until they remedy this problem.


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## davidgary73 (Jan 9, 2014)

Date: Thu Jan 9, 2014 5:30am EST — Thu Jan 9, 2014 3:00pm EST

About
As production on volume 2 of Mural continues, we thought it only right to invite you into our world and hang out with us at Air Studios. Join us over the next couple of days for a live webcam of the sessions where everyone can share their hopes and wishes for our exciting, long awaited symphonic strings range; Mural, part of our extensive BML release schedule for 2014. We're very close to completing production on volume 1, and will be announcing price and release info over the next 48 hours.

https://new.livestream.com/accounts/2827805/mural-live 

Live in 20 mins or so..

Apparently the livestream does not have audio :( as they don't want to give the game away!!!


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## jamwerks (Jan 9, 2014)

Awesome!


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## Jonathan Howe (Jan 16, 2014)

Now that we have a first teaser of Mural, can someone that owns Sable do a quick comparison of Sable with the transposition trick and the teaser?

I'd love to get one of the two but with Sable and the transposition trick I might be more flexible.


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