# Which 16 MacBook Pro for composing?



## rickdeckard (Jul 1, 2020)

How would you configure a new 16" MacBook Pro for orchestral composition?

Besides the 64GB of ram for samples that I would add, I don't know which processor or video card to choose. 

I'm happy to sacrifice a bit performance in order to keep it cooler and more silent...I don't know if the more powerful processor and video cards would generate more heat and therefore noise.

Any real world experience or suggestion would be very welcome.


All the best,
-R


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## Brian Cho (Jul 1, 2020)

I have a 2.3 GHz 8-Core model with AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB graphics. No issues with extra heat or fan noise. I have a 34" LG monitor for my external display. Doesn't seem to have issues.


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## rickdeckard (Jul 1, 2020)

Brian Cho said:


> I have a 2.3 GHz 8-Core model with AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB graphics. No issues with extra heat or fan noise. I have a 34" LG monitor for my external display. Doesn't seem to have issues.




Thanks, interesting that you got the specced up processor and graphic card...did you do research in that regard or did you have a chance to try the lower specced one before making a decision?

I would too use it quite a lot in clamshell mode with an external display

Thanks again
-R


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## gsilbers (Jul 1, 2020)

if you start with the lower priced model you can choose to get the cpu and ram of the high priced model. 
but if you start with the high priced model you cannot go down a video card spec. 

also, you can use the educational discount store. they wont check. 

and if you get an apple card, then its an extra 3% off.


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## Brian Cho (Jul 1, 2020)

rickdeckard said:


> Thanks, interesting that you got the specced up processor and graphic card...did you do research in that regard or did you have a chance to try the lower specced one before making a decision?
> 
> I would too use it quite a lot in clamshell mode with an external display
> 
> ...



Interestingly enough, it costs more to upgrade the specs starting with the 6-core model than getting the base version of the 8-core model. And I think the difference comes down to the extra $200 for the processing speed. At the end of the day, I couldn't justify spending an extra $200 for the 2.4 GHz and/or another $100 or even $700 for the upgraded graphics card. So my processing speed and graphics card are actually the base model for the 8-core version. The only upgrade I did was upping the RAM to 64G. Hope that makes sense! 

I also use my computer in clamshell mode, no issues whatsoever.


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## sourcefor (Jul 1, 2020)

Yeah I use the 2.4 ghz 64 gb ram model and I don’t really have any problems either other than some stupid logic bugs!


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## thevisi0nary (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm very interested to hear what size projects people are running on the 2.3ghz or 2.4ghz 16" Macbooks. The idea of a portable device that is good enough as an at home work station would be a wonderful thing, but I don't know what kind of spitting distance it has to a proper desktop.


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## gsilbers (Jul 2, 2020)

sourcefor said:


> Yeah I use the 2.4 ghz 64 gb ram model and I don’t really have any problems either other than some stupid logic bugs!




Do you use a separate monitor with it? 
And heat fan issues?


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## gsilbers (Jul 2, 2020)

Brian Cho said:


> Interestingly enough, it costs more to upgrade the specs starting with the 6-core model than getting the base version of the 8-core model. And I think the difference comes down to the extra $200 for the processing speed. At the end of the day, I couldn't justify spending an extra $200 for the 2.4 GHz and/or another $100 or even $700 for the upgraded graphics card. So my processing speed and graphics card are actually the base model for the 8-core version. The only upgrade I did was upping the RAM to 64G. Hope that makes sense!
> 
> I also use my computer in clamshell mode, no issues whatsoever.




Interesting... I get mad fan noise/ heat issue.
Sending to Apple to check.
But a quick search and it seems it’s fairly common and many complaining with one culprit being the external monitor and the amd graphics cards + i9 being so powerful it ramps up heat like crazy.


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## rickdeckard (Jul 2, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> Interesting... I get mad fan noise/ heat issue.
> Sending to Apple to check.
> But a quick search and it seems it’s fairly common and many complaining with one culprit being the external monitor and the amd graphics cards + i9 being so powerful it ramps up heat like crazy.



In that regard would the i7 be better to prevent this?


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## gsilbers (Jul 2, 2020)

rickdeckard said:


> In that regard would the i7 be better to prevent this?



not sure. there is a long thread somewhere where a person returned 2 i9 macbooks and later got the i7 and fan noise was better.
others like here say they have the i9 with no issues..
external monitors seems to be a big culprit as the macbook has two video cards, one intel for being used witout external monitor and another ones where you connect external monitors.. it switches to amd cards.


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## jiten (Jul 2, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> not sure. there is a long thread somewhere where a person returned 2 i9 macbooks and later got the i7 and fan noise was better.
> others like here say they have the i9 with no issues..
> external monitors seems to be a big culprit as the macbook has two video cards, one intel for being used witout external monitor and another ones where you connect external monitors.. it switches to amd cards.



I've been on the fence for months about picking up a 16". Have also been following the heat/fan issues and it seems to be related to the dGPUs drawing a lot more power when connected to external displays. Some have reported this problem even in clamshell mode.

It may be worth investigating the power draw of the dGPU and messing around with SwitchResX (see last couple of pages of this main thread on MacRumors: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/page-97). But if you need to use it with the screen open and also connected to an external display, you may be out of luck. Looks like people have been dealing with this for awhile so Apple may or may not solve it for you.

BTW, early reports on the new 5600M dGPU claim that it has solved the excessive power-draw (and thus, excessive fan/heat) problem, but that's a $600 upgrade and definitely overkill for audio work.

Separately, has anyone experienced those glitching issues when using the built-in speakers with MIDI/VSTi? Don't really ever use the internal speakers so it wouldn't be a showstopper, but am curious.

EDIT: Found this video interesting. Though it is focused on graphics performance it touches on the heat profile and external displays briefly.


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## gsilbers (Jul 2, 2020)

jiten said:


> I've been on the fence for months about picking up a 16". Have also been following the heat/fan issues and it seems to be related to the dGPUs drawing a lot more power when connected to external displays. Some have reported this problem even in clamshell mode.
> 
> It may be worth investigating the power draw of the dGPU and messing around with SwitchResX (see last couple of pages of this main thread on MacRumors: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/page-97). But if you need to use it with the screen open and also connected to an external display, you may be out of luck. Looks like people have been dealing with this for awhile so Apple may or may not solve it for you.
> 
> ...





Yeah i tried a few gpu switcher but it’s automatic when the gpu card switches to external monitor.


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## thomasjdev (Jul 2, 2020)

I have the i9 16” connected to an LG 27” 4k. 
I think DAW choice can make a difference in CPU usage which can translate to heat + increased fan noise. For myself anyway I could get away with a larger track count project in Logic before noticing the fans than I would with Cubase. But I really like cubase so I make a compromise that my fans will likely be churning more audibly while I’m working. 

I also use Turbo Boost Mode Switcher which helps a lot at times when I don’t need the extra CPU boost

There is also a thing with charging on the left side generates more heat due to the chipset being closer to the cpu and causing more heat.


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## sourcefor (Jul 2, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> Do you use a separate monitor with it?
> And heat fan issues?


I use the computer as my main monitor and have one off to the side and I don’t really notice any fan or heat issues, but fan noise has never been a problem to me.


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## yiph2 (Jul 2, 2020)

I ordered the second tier MBP 16, but added 64GB RAM, will update when I will get it


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## rickdeckard (Jul 3, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> I ordered the second tier MBP 16, but added 64GB RAM, will update when I will get it


Thanks!


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## Diablo IV (Jul 13, 2020)

Heat vs no heat: Guys can you write down what graphics card you have? 5500M or 5600M?
When connected to an external monitor?


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## thomasjdev (Jul 13, 2020)

I have the AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB connected to LG 4K 27" monitor.
One thing I've notice with fan noise (not always heat) is if the app is drawing closer to 60FPS the fans will start working more even when the CPU temps are staying in the low 60's C


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## ClaudioT (Jul 13, 2020)

Hi guys, my notebook has abandoned me after many years and I also have just bought a MacBook Pro 16.
Still haven’t installed the software though (Cubase 10 and Komplete mainly).
I started from the top configuration (i9 8 cores, 1 TB, 5500M) and just brought the ram to 64 GB. Plan to use it with 2 AOC 23.8” monitors (still waiting for the cables).

I see none of you is mentioning SSD capacity: I’ve deliberately chosen 1 TB and added an external 2 TB SSD USB 3 (which I already had). Do you think it is ok? or have I gone horribly wrong not buying a larger internal SSD?

Claudio


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## Brian Cho (Jul 13, 2020)

Diablo IV said:


> Heat vs no heat: Guys can you write down what graphics card you have? 5500M or 5600M?
> When connected to an external monitor?



I have the AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB with no problems. i9, 64G RAM, 1 TB SSD, clamshell mode using an external 34" LG monitor. Running Logic Pro X.


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## Brian Cho (Jul 13, 2020)

ClaudioT said:


> Hi guys, my notebook has abandoned me after many years and I also have just bought a MacBook Pro 16.
> Still haven’t installed the software though (Cubase 10 and Komplete mainly).
> I started from the top configuration (i9 8 cores, 1 TB, 5500M) and just brought the ram to 64 GB. Plan to use it with 2 AOC 23.8” monitors (still waiting for the cables).
> 
> ...



I opted for the 1TB SSD for my MBP and run my sample libraries on 2 2TB Samsung T5's.


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## gsilbers (Jul 13, 2020)

Brian Cho said:


> I have the AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB with no problems. i9, 64G RAM, 1 TB SSD, clamshell mode using an external 34" LG monitor. Running Logic Pro X.



do u get heat/fan noise issues? 

while logic alone is fine, its when there is a couple of tabs of safari or chrome open, plus mail app and other small apps open.


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## Brian Cho (Jul 13, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> do u get heat/fan noise issues?
> 
> while logic alone is fine, its when there is a couple of tabs of safari or chrome open, plus mail app and other small apps open.



Hmm I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who doesn't have heat/fan issues. I can hear the fan going and my MBP getting warm but it seems from the typical use of running Logic Sessions and increasing track counts, etc. I do tend to use headphones more (HD 650's), so maybe I don't hear it as much...but overall, I love the 16" MBP. I love that this model has 8-cores, 64G RAM, and works as my main AND portable rig. To each his own but for me, this is one of my favorite, no regret purchases I've made in the last 6 months.


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## Brian Cho (Jul 13, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> do u get heat/fan noise issues?
> 
> while logic alone is fine, its when there is a couple of tabs of safari or chrome open, plus mail app and other small apps open.



Sorry I didn't answer your question! I have other apps open and that doesn't seem to increase the heat/fan THAT much more. For example, currently I have Logic Pro X, Zoom, Preview, and some tabs on Safari open. It's a little more than I usually have open at one time but seems alright


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## gsilbers (Jul 13, 2020)

Brian Cho said:


> Sorry I didn't answer your question! I have other apps open and that doesn't seem to increase the heat/fan THAT much more. For example, currently I have Logic Pro X, Zoom, Preview, and some tabs on Safari open. It's a little more than I usually have open at one time but seems alright



interesting. 

I sent mine to repair but doubt theyll actually fixed it. 

i did see a ton of poeple complaing about the fan noise. 
mine ramp up like crazy with anything and even more w external monitor. 

i should get it this week and if its still the the same imma gooing to downgrade to an i7 2018 32gb 

But im still confused as to why a lot of poeple complain about the the fan noise but others like you dont have issues.


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## jcrosby (Jul 13, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> while logic alone is fine, its when there is a couple of tabs of safari or chrome open, plus mail app and other small apps open.


A few things you should look into that will reduce your browser(s) CPU/memory hit.

For Chrome I've use an extension called _Great Suspender_. It puts browser tabs to sleep and has a huge impact on the CPU hit and memory I used to see in Chrome... You can configure the time it waits to suspend a tab, you can ignore tab suspending, whitelist sites, etc. Basically I leave Gmail permanently whitelisted and put every other tab to sleep. I rarely use Safari but it looks like There's something very similar called _Tab Suspender_:

One other thing you should check out is an extension called _One Tab_. This will collapse save all of your browser tabs. You can then _rename_ and _lock_ the tab group, effectively saving your tabs for later and/or completely kicking their resources out of the queue until you reload them. You can also use it to save sets of tabs which is handy if you normally have a ton of tabs open, or want to revert after a browser crash. (You'll want to re-save every few days to a week if you want to use it for backup. I just lock and rename the new tabs by date...)

Between the two of these you'll see your browser CPU hit and memory usage massively shrink... Browsers have become CPU pigs, I stopped getting fan-spin issues on my 2018 as soon as I started using these...

Also might want to check out the browser Brave... It's built on Chrome but I find it requires a lot less resources. It'll let you import bookmarks and histories from all browsers, has the same tight security and privacy Safari does, tracker & add blocking built in, etc... The short version is I ditched Chrome for Brave in January and haven't looked back.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/the-great-suspender/klbibkeccnjlkjkiokjodocebajanakghttps://apps.apple.com/us/app/tab-suspender-for-safari/id1495356253?mt=12








OneTab


Save up to 95% memory and reduce tab clutter




chrome.google.com


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## gsilbers (Jul 13, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> A few things you should look into that will reduce your browser(s) CPU/memory hit.
> 
> For Chrome I've use an extension called _Great Suspender_. It puts browser tabs to sleep and has a huge impact on the CPU hit and memory I used to see in Chrome... You can configure the time it waits to suspend a tab, you can ignore tab suspending, whitelist sites, etc. Basically I leave Gmail permanently whitelisted and put every other tab to sleep. I rarely use Safari but it looks like There's something very similar called _Tab Suspender_:
> 
> ...




thanks. but i think if the issue still persist im out of it. for being a pro computer and having to do all these "hacks" or add ons or fan cpu apps, then its just like buying a windows pc at the end in terms of pita and tweeking. 
since i cant be dealing with all of that when trying to record a vocal with someone or trying to record samples etc, to suddenly get that fan noise, try to trouble shoot, get those apps to help when at the end maybe im just barking the wrong tree or i have a dud.


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## jcrosby (Jul 13, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> thanks. but i think if the issue still persist im out of it. for being a pro computer and having to do all these "hacks" or add ons or fan cpu apps, then its just like buying a windows pc at the end in terms of pita and tweeking.
> since i cant be dealing with all of that when trying to record a vocal with someone or trying to record samples etc, to suddenly get that fan noise, try to trouble shoot, get those apps to help when at the end maybe im just barking the wrong tree or i have a dud.


I actually agree. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive and even if I encounter fan spin I'm not installing an app to disable turbo boost, that's a ridiculous idea. I'm also skeptical it isn't a bad idea in general. That said Chrome is a notorious CPU pig. Depending on what you have open it can eat a ton of resources on any macbook. I typically have like 30+ tabs open... f you're talking only a few tabs then that's a different story of course.

Anyway all good... Just figured I'd post it since I've always found Chrome to be a resource hog on all of my MBs.


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## gsilbers (Jul 14, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> I actually agree. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive and even if I encounter fan spin I'm not installing an app to disable turbo boost, that's a ridiculous idea. I'm also skeptical it isn't a bad idea in general. That said Chrome is a notorious CPU pig. Depending on what you have open it can eat a ton of resources on any macbook. I typically have like 30+ tabs open... f you're talking only a few tabs then that's a different story of course.
> 
> Anyway all good... Just figured I'd post it since I've always found Chrome to be a resource hog on all of my MBs.




It’ll be interesting to compare notes once u get it

I just got mine from repair and still get fan and heat issue w minor workload.

Maybe the fans don’t ramp up so high as before (don’t remember ) but it’s just frustrating that my 2012 MacBook can load more stuff and still not have fan noise.

But maybe it’s just me





[QUOTE="jcrosby, post: 4598996, member:


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## gsilbers (Jul 14, 2020)

oh, apple just added a better gpu option.. 
which seems to be the heart of the issue per some random guy

_"The only solution currently is to buy the 5600m version of the MBP 16" the 5500m and 5300m have a power issue with the gpu causing a high gpu load thus high fan speeds."_


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## gsilbers (Jul 14, 2020)

Initial tests show impressive performance gains with new 5600M AMD GPU in 16-inch MacBook Pro


Apple added this week a new GPU option for the 16-inch MacBook Pro lineup. Customers can now purchase Apple’s high-end notebook with an AMD Radeon Pro 5600M GPU at $800 additional cost from the base model MacBook Pro. But how does it compare with the other GPUs? YouTube channel Max Tech shows...




9to5mac.com


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## bradbecker (Jul 14, 2020)

I did similar research recently and came to the same conclusion that today you really need to spend over $4k in the us for a Mac that can realistically handle the composition workload. There are some threads and videos about the 2018 Mac mini’s + an eGPU to drive a monitor being good enough as well for half the price but I’m having a hard time feeling like that is a safe bet. We’re about due for new iMacs and Mac Mini’s though, so maybe the next refresh will give more options soon.


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## gsilbers (Jul 14, 2020)

bradbecker said:


> I did similar research recently and came to the same conclusion that today you really need to spend over $4k in the us for a Mac that can realistically handle the composition workload. There are some threads and videos about the 2018 Mac mini’s + an eGPU to drive a monitor being good enough as well for half the price but I’m having a hard time feeling like that is a safe bet. We’re about due for new iMacs and Mac Mini’s though, so maybe the next refresh will give more options soon.




I’ve seen people happy w the Mac mini ... audio guys of course, I’m guessing video guys will require GPU.

I might be downgrading to a 2018 i7 and seem people are ok w it..?


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## jcrosby (Jul 15, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> It’ll be interesting to compare notes once u get it
> 
> I just got mine from repair and still get fan and heat issue w minor workload.
> 
> ...



Thanks for uploading that. Yeah the fans shouldn't spin up with only a couple things open, and I replicated your setup and they didn’t kick on mine. The one thing I see people say over and over is that they tend to have fan-spin with a monitor connected. Have you tried it with no monitor and is there any difference at all? (Not that that makes it ok!)

I’m actually planning on replacing my 2018 with a 2019. It's also prone to fan noise. Maybe not as much, not sure... But it does have some pretty regular fan noise. Anytime I launch Live my fans spin up like crazy for at least 15 minutes because Ableton’s indexing my user library. The noise in Live is also noticeably worse than Logic. Live’s hardly the only culprit either, The fans spun up earlier just from downloading a plugin update. Literally no reason why it should have..

Once the fans start spinning it also takes long time for them to spin back down. The fans stay spinning for at least a good 10-15 minutes after quitting the process or program that made them kick on. I think a big part of the issue is the design. These machines are just way too thin to run silently. The depth of the older MacBooks gave them more space for airflow. I also wonder there's a driver or setting Apple f-d up like they did one the 2018's CPU. Not to mention the audio issues it was famous for.

Plus there’s the keyboard issue. Within 10 months of owning mine I started getting key repeats. If you type a lot on your keyboard you’re almost guaranteed to have keyboard issues at some point… It actually becomes really problematic because you'll get key repeats when you go to do stuff like enter a password. After seeing that all the main stuff I use is working on my test drive it seems like I can live with 10.15. I'm not crazy about it, but I can live with it...


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## gsilbers (Jul 15, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> Thanks for uploading that. Yeah the fans shouldn't spin up with only a couple things open, and I replicated your setup and they didn’t kick on mine. The one thing I see people say over and over is that they tend to have fan-spin with a monitor connected. Have you tried it with no monitor and is there any difference at all? (Not that that makes it ok!)
> 
> I’m actually planning on replacing my 2018 with a 2019. It's also prone to fan noise. Maybe not as much, not sure... But it does have some pretty regular fan noise. Anytime I launch Live my fans spin up like crazy for at least 15 minutes because Ableton’s indexing my user library. The noise in Live is also noticeably worse than Logic. Live’s hardly the only culprit either, The fans spun up earlier just from downloading a plugin update. Literally no reason why it should have..
> 
> ...




I went straight to testing w the external monitor as that’s how I’ll be using it.

I was talking to a video editor friend who was running the same model and using premier editing a tv show, plus google and a few apps open and he said he didn’t have issues w the fan noise.... he sent me a video and I could totally hear the fan noise. 

ThIs could be just catching up to all this new models where the fan and heat kicks off sooner than my 2012 model. 
And most people who use it and review it are video editors who will not be recording acustic instruments in the same room. 

I have a few options, either sell it and buy the 2018 w 32gb ram version, noise is there as u mentioned but at least is half the price until the new arm cpu get released.
And I can also buy a Mac mini as well and be in the same price range! 

Or sell it and buy the one w the higher end gpu that just came out but w 32gb instead 64gb since some people confirmed it’s the lower tier gpu that have to work harder for smaller loads .


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## Diablo IV (Jul 21, 2020)

thomasjdev said:


> I have the AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB connected to LG 4K 27" monitor.
> One thing I've notice with fan noise (not always heat) is if the app is drawing closer to 60FPS the fans will start working more even when the CPU temps are staying in the low 60's C



Awesome thanks. I asked because I have been watching tons of MBP 16 videos and somewhere I heard/read that the 5600m gpu is the best for external monitors.


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## gsilbers (Jul 22, 2020)

Diablo IV said:


> Awesome thanks. I asked because I have been watching tons of MBP 16 videos and somewhere I heard/read that the 5600m gpu is the best for external monitors.



Yep, Apple quietly updated the line up to include a better card. At en extra $700.
I doubt it’ll make that much of a difference though as that i9 gets very got anyways.
But maybe takes longer to get the fans riled up. 
As a main daw it won’t work for me but maybe for you and others will work or fans is not as annoying.


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## yiph2 (Jul 24, 2020)

rickdeckard said:


> Thanks!


I just got mine, and its a nice machine, but the fan noise is extremely loud... Not really an issue for me as most of the time I can't hear it with headphones on


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## charlieclouser (Jul 24, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> I just got mine, and its a nice machine, but the fan noise is extremely loud... Not really an issue for me as most of the time I can't hear it with headphones on



Did you get the i9 or i7? Which video card, how much RAM, how big SSD? 

I need to get one, not for music, not for external monitor use, just for normal laptop stuff. But I want the biggest SSD in the lowest-heat config available. So if the fancier video cards, bigger SSD, and i9 cause fan activity even when just posting on vi-control, then I'll go against my natural tendency to just get the most expensive config, and get the i7. But it's hard to find info on what hardware, exactly, contributes to thermal loading.

Normally my logic would be "get the i9 and best video card because it will barely be idling doing what I do" but I'm always looking for more info on that...


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## yiph2 (Jul 24, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> Did you get the i9 or i7? Which video card, how much RAM, how big SSD?
> 
> I need to get one, not for music, not for external monitor use, just for normal laptop stuff. But I want the biggest SSD in the lowest-heat config available. So if the fancier video cards, bigger SSD, and i9 cause fan activity even when just posting on vi-control, then I'll go against my natural tendency to just get the most expensive config, and get the i7. But it's hard to find info on what hardware, exactly, contributes to thermal loading.
> 
> Normally my logic would be "get the i9 and best video card because it will barely be idling doing what I do" but I'm always looking for more info on that...


i9 2.3 GHz, 64GB RAM, 5500M 4GB
Yeah I would get i7 if you worry about fan noise


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## gsilbers (Aug 4, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> i9 2.3 GHz, 64GB RAM, 5500M 4GB
> Yeah I would get i7 if you worry about fan noise



Same but w the 5400 video card.
And yep just a few tabs and YouTube videos and mail app running for a bit will trigger these puppies up.
Even faster w external monitor.

Imma gonna sell mine. Will wait for the Apple silicon.


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