# "To Spitfire" or not "To Spitfire"



## M0rdechai

Ok so I'm new to this.
I'm 30 years old, done a lot of amateur- semipro live gigs and am now looking into composing. just for fun and for myself in the style of Harry Gregson-Williams (if I ever can ofcourse  ) and a bit more fantasy & gaming influences (+choirs!!!). the money I will earn with doing gigs etc. (100-200 Euro a month on avarage) will go into this.
Aside from that I want to use vsts for live playing as well as making backing tracks for the live gigs (gospel /countryrock)

The thing is: I have spent quite some time the last months gathering info on what to look for, what to buy etc.
currently I have cubase LE, omnisphere 2 and komplete ultimate 11, will buy Keyscape soon.

but now I have a big decision to make; where do I want to go with orchestral libraries.

It appears to me that there is 2 'routes' that I can take:

A. Cinematic Studio Strings, CineBrass, HollyWoodwinds, Genesis, Dominus + some Embertone solo instruments and Tina Guo cello
maybe lateron add LASS3 / Cinematic Studio Brass / who knows what will come out

or B: Spitfire Audio... (maybe + Genesis for now, but who knows when they will....)

(or C: Orchestral Tools... but to start building a library they are to expensive for me..)

with reading stuff here and listening to guys like DJ, Blakus, Guy Mickelmore, Ashton Gleckman I get the idea that the SA stuff and the 'others' dont blend so easily. That you either go all in on SA or cherry pick the 'best-of's from other companies
I like the sound of all libraries listen under A, but I also like the sound of SA...

so:

1. Am I weird to think that there is some truth in 'go Spitfire all the way or not at all'?

2. Do you think that (given that I won't have to go FFFF in my libraries) I COULD do either option and be fine, or would you advise A/B/C?

(3. Is there a thread I couldn't find that already perfectly discusses this?)


cheers,


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## rottoy

You could also go the Cinesamples way.
https://cinesamples.com/productGroup/cinesymphony
Still great stuff.


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## bigcat1969

It is probably best to go either Spitfire or go Orchestral tools depending on your taste to go for the highest level of sound with the minimum amount attempting to 'mix' the sounds to get them to mesh well. Note I'm no expert and have only a couple OT stuff, a few labs Spitfire things and tons of other stuff that I don't know how to mix well.


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## M0rdechai

thx
hmm ok. stick with 1 company...

but then; is there maybe a thread "SA vs OT vs EW vs VSL vs CS"?
or is there a sort of major consensus on this that everyone just knows?
or is this the part where people say; you have to decide for yourself, goodluck!


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## Sami

Spitfire and Cinesamples work extremely well together. Spitfire has a certain sound and feeling to it which I adore and couldn't live without. Cinesamples produce fantastic sounding products with high playability and fantastic pricing, maybe a bit more on the "safe side" and the sound is more neutral, in line with modern cinematic productions while Spitfire is more idiosyncratic. I own large collections by both and love both. 
Orchestral Tools make fantastic instruments for sure, the pricing is higher and the tech specs are more demanding, while CineSamples especially run on less powerful systems.
I own three OT libraries, Metropolis Ark I and II and the muted brass. I use the Metropolis libraries sparingly because my style is more restrained but I truly adore some of the sounds in them.
In summary then, you can't go wrong with any of them.

But.

I would like to make some point which often gets overlooked in our passion for new and better VIs:
(1) Restraint and restriction are sometimes very creativity-boosting. Unless you feel most comfortable writing for a full orchestra you can restrict yourself to something like CineSymphony or Albion or even some of the Symphobias or try something even less expectable, like only buying Albion II or actually something by a smaller developer, some of them have truly wonderful products I truly believe we should support more, among them for example Light and Sound
(2) Before investing into sounds, consider recording your own and using them, if you are an instumentalist or have access to instrumentalists that is even more interesting and -in my eyes- productive. My workflow has shifted over the past years from 100% commercial VIs to 90% homegrown and bespoke samples and live recordings and maybe 10% VIs whenever I actually do virtual. Mostly I work with real instruments and no matter what they want you to believe, you cannot beat live.
(3) Do you feel you should put some money into better training? Almost everything you need to learn music from a certain degree onwards you can probably teach yourself by listening to Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Chopin, Schubert, Bruckner, Mahler, Schönberg, Webern, the Russians (Rach, Prok, Glazunov, Mussorgsky, Myaskovsky, Tchaikovsky, Scriabin and Schnittke), the Brits (Walton, Vaughan Williams, Elgar), the Americans (Gershwin, Ive, Bernstein) and probably a bit of Nielsen, some Jazz, Blues and a bit of Rock/Pop/Metal and transcribing them/score studying. But you might want to invest into actual paper scores (very helpful), actually pay someone to listen to their music (i.e. live performances not just apple music), a teacher to teach you something (keyboard skills? a new instrument? note-reading? I consider the latter a must, not everyone agrees).

Full disclosure: I am a professional composer and composition/orchestration teacher at a university and NOT a media composer or a film composer. I have never scored a single movie in my life and never intend to and all my work is intended for live performers. Mockups are only a very small part of what I do.

Hope I could help.


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## sostenuto

bigcat1969 said:


> It is probably best to go either Spitfire or go Orchestral tools depending on your taste to go for the highest level of sound with the minimum amount attempting to 'mix' the sounds to get them to mesh well. Note I'm no expert and have only a couple OT stuff, a few labs Spitfire things and tons of other stuff that I don't know how to mix well.



Ha! @ bigcat1969 is cool, capable dude in several categories  …. I'm far less astute, yet share his advice.
Either choice will get you on a solid track, but evaluate OT pricing carefully before letting that be your main reason for avoiding. ( BTW, it impacted my early choices too, but I am in the US, and Euro pricing stacks on ~20% every time )
After couple years, and many purchases, I have spent more than had I focused on either OT or SFA.
Now have large inventory of quality libraries ( including some from OT & SFA ) and it's a mish /mash with no rationale. Others with strong talent and skills, can fit these pieces together as needed, but I am far from that capability.

All the best with whatever your chosen direction ...…


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## Henu

Having pretty much everything I need from setup A and B, I would strongly suggest the A- route. The budget will allow way more different stuff, different instruments and different timbres with the same price than B.

The Spitfire stuff is very good, but they have pretty much a certain sound and you're a bit "locked" into that if you're going to use them. Some of their stuff (Chamber Strings and Woodwinds come to mind) are more versatile than the others, but their Symphonic Orchestra- palette is more or less classical- oriented and will leave you a bit cold when wanting to do something "different", of which especially game music is more about.

That being said, the A- route is also having it's flaws, namely the mixing of different libraries together. Which is tough, especially for a "novice". Then again, if you're not into realism _per se_, you don't have to care about that difficulty and just go with the flow. :D 
But I'd say you will get best bang for your buck for now if you choose that A one. Concerning option C, I can't comment on that one as I have no Berlin stuff myself.


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## JohnG

M0rdechai said:


> 1. Am I weird to think that there is some truth in 'go Spitfire all the way or not at all'?



Not weird, but not necessary either. If you have the money you can buy a Spitfire package and make a lot o' nice music. That said, you will find that any library family has its habits, colour, predilections, etc. that at times will be limiting.

I blend everything and it sounds fine.


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## M0rdechai

thanks for your input guys!

I am looking into training as well (I have studied 1 year of Jazz piano and 2 years of Music Teaching, so I'm not going in all blind). looking at some Udemy courses and Thinkspace Education.
With my firstborn underway (could be any day now) I can't put to much time into it though :D

I Have looked at Project SAM as well, but I always found their sound a bit... impolite 
like a bit in your face instead of relaxing. and I'm not so sure on the 'sections' thing..
People seem to love it though...

Being a pianist, not much I can do about creating my own samples I gues. besides I'm not that creative :D I need to use people like the Unfinished to inspire me


Maybe then option A + Albion to start 
Ow i dunno yet, but luckily I don't have to decide today.

thx again guys


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## Michael Antrum

If I were you, and time isn't urgent, I would consider subscribing to East West Composer Cloud for a bit to get me started off, and then wait and see what comes later this year around the Black Friday sales.

Spitfire had some very attractive deals around that time last year, and I saved a LOT of money on their normal pricing when I bought the whole orchestra.

(Also, by that time, you'll know if you want to continue with the crazy hobby.)


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## stonzthro

Going with B will give you a nice and cohesive sound. Also, there is a lot to be said for having all your instruments programmed with the same MIDI CCs as you'd get by going with the same company. 

Were I just starting out I would go with a single company to begin with, and then add on as you need. Spitfire, Cinesamples, East West, Orchestral Tools, ProjectSAM, VSL (and others of course) all have comprehensive solutions. 

Echoing JohnG I mix different libraries all the time! This is a very small concern in the larger view of composing and producing.


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## bigcat1969

Just to repeat what was said earlier, if money is an issue and time isn't, keep an eye out for those sales...


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## M0rdechai

yes, I'm Dutch. I will definitely buy as cheap as I possibly can :D


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## gsilbers

EW has the orchestral gold package at a very good price. better to have the diamond of course. but their price and quality is amazing. so for one side, its sticking to one company and its sound which is very good.
the only downside is PLAY, which seems to being doing good.

or also getting CSS, CB, HWW from different companies is still good.

your question is basically about 70% of this forums posts 
so there will be tons of variations, yet any path will get you some cool results.

also, since you mentioned harry gregson Williams, I have to say that his style doesn't involve tons of articulations... like the amount that spitfire has. I was overwhelm by how many articulation their string libraries have. while HGW scores have much less (and still sounding amazing btw) articulations. I don't think Narnia as a HGW sound btw. 
so food for thought on articulations needed vs price vs the offers.


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## PaulieDC

mikeybabes said:


> If I were you, and time isn't urgent, I would consider subscribing to East West Composer Cloud for a bit to get me started off, and then wait and see what comes later this year around the Black Friday sales.


Exactly what I did for a year, I can't suggest that enough. The $25 Composer Cloud X plan gives you everything they make in 16-bit. I did the $49 plan and bought the hard drive and had everything in 24-bit but knowing what I know now, I would have started with the cheaper plan. You can try everything you want for a year for $25 a month. Some may argue "that's renting and you are throwing away $300 over a year for nothing". HA, really? How many libraries do we own we wish we hadn't gotten? Add THOSE up, lol! Plus, set everything up as a hobby business and you can deduct the monthly cost. But at the end, you'll know exactly what you like from EastWest. Mixing Symphonic Orchestra with Hollywood can sound great, plus you have a full 70-seat orchestra patch in SO that is great for noodling and composing because it sounds _good_. Anyway, after I knew what I wanted, I hung out for the Black Friday sales and got 50% off and two-for-ones and now I own exactly what I like (at this point). No other library offers this amazing program. Plus with EastWest, you don't need a stupid USB dongle, just an internet connection. Can you tell I'm not a fan of those? lol! Studio One, NI, EW, Waves = #NoDongleForThisDork 
For the one person out there that's 28% curious, I ended up buying HO, SO, SC, HC, Pianos, SD3, Spaces and two of the special edition that has SD1 Patterns and String Runs. I ate Ramen, it's paid for, done, lol. Now I can concentrate on composition, the most import cog in the machine.


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## gsilbers

PaulieDC said:


> Exactly what I did for a year, I can't suggest that enough. The $25 Composer Cloud X plan gives you everything they make in 16-bit. I did the $49 plan and bought the hard drive and had everything in 24-bit but knowing what I know now, I would have started with the cheaper plan. You can try everything you want for a year for $25 a month. Some may argue "that's renting and you are throwing away $300 over a year for nothing". HA, really? How many libraries do we own we wish we hadn't gotten? Add THOSE up, lol! Plus, set everything up as a hobby business and you can deduct the monthly cost. But at the end, you'll know exactly what you like from EastWest. Mixing Symphonic Orchestra with Hollywood can sound great, plus you have a full 70-seat orchestra patch in SO that is great for noodling and composing because it sounds _good_. Anyway, after I knew what I wanted, I hung out for the Black Friday sales and got 50% off and two-for-ones and now I own exactly what I like (at this point). No other library offers this amazing program. Plus with EastWest, you don't need a stupid USB dongle, just an internet connection. Can you tell I'm not a fan of those? lol! Studio One, NI, EW, Waves = #NoDongleForThisDork
> For the one person out there that's 28% curious, I ended up buying HO, SO, SC, HC, Pianos, SD3, Spaces and two of the special edition that has SD1 Patterns and String Runs. I ate Ramen, it's paid for, done, lol.



lol really good point. I wished they had that when LASS came out. I would have $1k still in my pocket instead of inside a backup drive somewhere in a closet. :-/


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## Parsifal666

Depends on what kind of vision you have for your music. Do the EW Composer Cloud for a month to warm up (learning what you can there has a certain amount of crossover value when you use other libraries).

As mentioned above, if you mostly want to just have fun with a heaping mound of epic included, Met Ark 1 is a great deal. Heavy, heavy, heavy and less heavy (though I wouldn't recommend doing too much of that last with that library...right tools for the right job and all that rot WOT!).

I'm glad I started with the Hollywood series because I didn't know much about "out of the box" and "baked in reverb", I had to learn how to engineer my own stuff really quick. And that has paid off a zillion times since. Being able to put your mockups into a finished state with all your idiosyncracies in style present; having mapped out the panning, dynamics, reverb tails, etc. oneself...it can be extraordinarily gratifying.

I'd recommend the Bernard Herrmann Orchestral Toolbox to you (because it's a nice and dry library), but it might seem too niche for a beginner. Lots of super cool stuff you can do with that one, too.


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## MrHStudio

I have had QLSO Gold for years and found it hard to get to sound I liked but still use the timpani and percussion over the spitfire equivalent but now use Spitfire for everything else orchestral.

I think it’s important to work out what you actually need as Komplete ultimate has usable orchestral sounds and you already have this. 

With so much choice even within spitfire: Chamber strings, SOlo strings, HZ strings, Symphony orchestra etc. Knowing which is the right W tion to buy is hard. Other brands have similar range so what size orchestra does Harry Gregson-Williams write for?

I probably haven’t helped at all but I think this is where I would start again.....


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## Geoff Grace

One more vote for the EastWest ComposerCloud as a starting place.

This way, you can compose while waiting for sales on other companies' products. For what it's worth, I don't have problems mixing Spitfire and non-Spitfire products. I'd go with what sounds good to your ears.

Best,

Geoff


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## germancomponist

JohnG said:


> Not weird, but not necessary either. If you have the money you can buy a Spitfire package and make a lot o' nice music. That said, you will find that any library family has its habits, colour, predilections, etc. that at times will be limiting.
> 
> I blend everything and it sounds fine.


This!
For me, I always pick up a library when I like the sound of it. And yes, sometimes I use the old Peter Siedlaczek AO and Garritan libs because of its sound what is needed in my projects. It all depends! You have to experiment and for sure you will buy this and/or that library what you will use only sometimes ..... . Good luck!


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## ashtongleckman

SA blends brilliantly with most of what I have. I'm a big fan of string layering so I'll normally combine stuff from the metropolis series, mural, CSS, fluid shorts, depending on the cue. The sound of Air works really well with other stages like the Tuldex from OT, so layering w/ SA shouldn't be an issue.

I think if you go towards the Orchestral Tools collection or the SF collection (Berlin / SA Symphonic Collection), you'll be in really good hands. The other one (CSS, etc) is also great. I use those all the time. Both routes you listed are great, you can make great music with either! 

Also, from what I've heard, HGW tends to lean towards SA, but I believe he uses private samples as well.


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## PaulieDC

gsilbers said:


> lol really good point. I wished they had that when LASS came out. I would have $1k still in my pocket instead of inside a backup drive somewhere in a closet. :-/


Oy, I'm fairly new to this and I already have a collection of space junk forming...


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## PaulieDC

MrHStudio said:


> I have had QLSO Gold for years and found it hard to get to sound I liked but still use the timpani and percussion over the spitfire equivalent but now use Spitfire for everything else orchestral.


Super important point, I'm coming to find that each library you own will have amazing and disappointing patches. NI's Symphony Series that Soundiron did for them doesn't get a lot of attention, but it was the first advertising that I came across and I took the bait. It's not terrible, but when you hear some of the VSL demos by Guy Bacos and others, good NIGHT, you find out why a library costs a bazillion salt blocks. HOWEVER, I got my price of admission on the NI Brass Library (which I got at 50% off) when I tried the Horns 2 patch, wow, what a massive sound... actually inspiring to compose melodies and I can't wait to use it when it's needed (I'm still in first grade don't forget). I'll never sell that brass library because there are 2, maybe 3 patches that are worth bloating my hard drives for. Anyway, there's enough YouTube demos out there to toe the Spitfire water, if it's the sound you are looking for, great. Pick one and commit, I did that with EW, you might with Spitfire. Never heard of them until after I committed to EW, and I hear Spitfire stuff that Guy Michelmore demos in his classes that sound awesome and even spark a little regret, but I can't worry about that now, I need a tune and the ability to compose that tune way more than a third library. Yep, I've definitely rambled on enough, back to the grind. Take care yall!


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## Alex Fraser

I'll throw this one in. You're a Komplete owner so a crossgrade to the NI Symphony Series collection right now is silly cheap until the end of the month.

It's not on the same level as Spitfire/OT etc, but if you're looking to get your feet wet it's worth a 10 minute visit to the NI website. If you're deadly serious about composing for orchestra then the companies you mentioned are probably your final destination. But the NI collection might be a nice step while you continue to save for the pricey stuff.

My 2c anyway.


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## tehreal

mikeybabes said:


> If I were you, and time isn't urgent, I would consider subscribing to East West Composer Cloud for a bit to get me started off, and then wait and see what comes later this year around the Black Friday sales.
> 
> Spitfire had some very attractive deals around that time last year, and I saved a LOT of money on their normal pricing when I bought the whole orchestra.
> 
> (Also, by that time, you'll know if you want to continue with the crazy hobby.)



I want to second this. Don't blow money on expensive libraries if you're new to this. Get something like Composer Cloud or NI and practice composing and orchestration. *Blow your money (far less money) on composition books, courses, lessons, etc.*

See where you are with this new passion in a year's time. If you need the pro libs at that point then you will be much more knowledgeable and there will be more/better libs released by then for you to choose from. And as @mikeybabes said, wait for big sales.


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## Jeremy Spencer

I may be bias, but EW hands down. I found that once you find a developer you "click" with, that's the one you tend to gravitate towards for years to come. Aside from using EW for 90% of my orchestral work for that past ten years, I can attest that they are high end, quality libraries (I only use Gold).

Project SAM had the recent 50% off sale, Symphobia 1&2 would have been an awesome choice.


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## desert

M0rdechai said:


> Ok so I'm new to this.
> I'm 30 years old, done a lot of amateur- semipro live gigs and am now looking into composing. just for fun and for myself in the style of Harry Gregson-Williams (if I ever can ofcourse  ) and a bit more fantasy & gaming influences (+choirs!!!). the money I will earn with doing gigs etc. (100-200 Euro a month on avarage) will go into this.
> Aside from that I want to use vsts for live playing as well as making backing tracks for the live gigs (gospel /countryrock)
> 
> The thing is: I have spent quite some time the last months gathering info on what to look for, what to buy etc.
> currently I have cubase LE, omnisphere 2 and komplete ultimate 11, will buy Keyscape soon.
> 
> but now I have a big decision to make; where do I want to go with orchestral libraries.
> 
> It appears to me that there is 2 'routes' that I can take:
> 
> A. Cinematic Studio Strings, CineBrass, HollyWoodwinds, Genesis, Dominus + some Embertone solo instruments and Tina Guo cello
> maybe lateron add LASS3 / Cinematic Studio Brass / who knows what will come out
> 
> or B: Spitfire Audio... (maybe + Genesis for now, but who knows when they will....)
> 
> (or C: Orchestral Tools... but to start building a library they are to expensive for me..)
> 
> with reading stuff here and listening to guys like DJ, Blakus, Guy Mickelmore, Ashton Gleckman I get the idea that the SA stuff and the 'others' dont blend so easily. That you either go all in on SA or cherry pick the 'best-of's from other companies
> I like the sound of all libraries listen under A, but I also like the sound of SA...
> 
> so:
> 
> 1. Am I weird to think that there is some truth in 'go Spitfire all the way or not at all'?
> 
> 2. Do you think that (given that I won't have to go FFFF in my libraries) I COULD do either option and be fine, or would you advise A/B/C?
> 
> (3. Is there a thread I couldn't find that already perfectly discusses this?)
> 
> 
> cheers,


I think you’re asking the wrong question here “spitfire or not to spitfire”.

I strongly recommend you do *not* buy spitfire, or any other expensive sample library.

When someone wants to learn how to play violin, no one goes out and buys the most expensive one for their first ever violin.

VIs are instruments and takes a lot of practice to master.

These days, a lot of sample library companies pry on the amateurs, hoping they would think being the most expensive correlates to being better quality.

I always recommend to people like you who have never bought an orchestral library, to go for a cheaper one.

Learn how they behave. Learn how to write for them. Even learn the theory and how to orchestrate.

Someone suggested buying East West cloud. You can get access to all of their high quality samples like the Hollywood series.

Go for that one.

This forum loves to compete with what library is better. Asking which one to get first, opens up a massive subjective discussion..


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## Jimmy Hellfire

The truth is that

a) It doesn't really matter which libraries you use
b) You can't possibly make an educated decision at this point.

Therefore I would strongly advise against breaking the bank and getting thousands of dollars and hundreds of gigabytes worth of samples in one go.
It takes a lot of time to really get the hang of the whole orchestral samples thing. I would give myself that time.

Maybe something like Red Room Audio's "Palette - Melodics", along with some percussion is all you actually need?
As many others said - East West Hollywood Orchestra, during one of their frequent deals, would also be a quite comprehensive and high quality path into the world of sampled orchestra.

You most certainly don't need to go "all Spitfire" or whatever. At least not yet. Don't buy into the hype, don't touch the fairy dust, don't eat the yellow snow. SF is not the holy grail of sampling. It is what it is. I have a bunch of their stuff and it's great at what it does, but just as any other line of products, it has its typical and traditional downsides, problems etc. And if I went all Spitfire, I would now live in a world of Spitfire problems. Instead, I always have the liberty to pick and choose which library pisses me off today. 

My advice would be to take it easy and start slow. Don't overwhelm yourself with options. I think it's much wiser to start out with a good basic setup and really learn the reins first. There's so much to the whole orchestral samples thing that you can't possibly know looking from the outside in. And so much of that ends up resulting in buyer's remorse. There's no "best" library really - they all bring different qualities to the table and present their own set of problems in return - but you need some kind of tangible experience to even be able to judge what you're looking for the most and what kind of problems you can live with the easiest.


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## MatFluor

From my point of view:

You have Omnisphere and Komplete Ultimate 11. Save your cash until you can make use of the "fancy" libraries out there. Komplete Ultimate has an Orchestral section - yes, it might not be that "current", but still worthwhile, especially when learning.

My way in Orchestral was like this:
1. Got Garritan Personal Orchestra 5 - learning the ropes, instruments and their rough sound
2. Got some libraries from special deals like Kirk Hunter Strings, Auddict Woodwinds, Bravura Brass - I initially went for the "I want it dry and mix myself" approach - but my skill level wasn't there.
3. I need a high-grade library to eliminate the excuse of "it's sound weak because my brass isn't the best" or the like. Long evaluation which boiled down to either Berlin Series or Spitfire
4. Due to budget and computational power, I decided for Spitfire. Got the SSO package
5. Created my "almost Spitfire-only" template, by adding SF's Harp, Grnad Piano, Percussion redux
6. Added SCS to the mix, because lovely sound.

So - I went full Spitfire - but not because of "difficult to mix" or anything. I simply decided to go "one dev" for ease of use. That's my approach to it. I could've well gotten into VSL and make that work, or go for Berlin and pray my setup can hold it (meanwhile it could, but some time ago it surely didn't). My main reason for "all Spitfire" was more, I listened to tons of demos, spoke to many people and listened to their mockups - and what I heard, Spitfire matched the "sound in my head". When I create a melody/Orchestral piece in my head, or think about a piece someone composed, Spitfire comes closest to what my inner ear hears. That and some of the performances of the samples are great - so I went with that. Sure - it's like an order at a restaurant, where you think you made the right choice until you see what others get - but I haven't looked back and didn't feel the need for other stuff. But that's not because it's "one dev", it's because that comes closest to my idea how an Orchestra sounds.

I agree with a lot of points made here, there is no "best" library, every dev has a different focus and different sound. My advise is, start out with what you already have and learn the ropes, especially in Production and orchestration. Afterwards this knowledge will transfer to the "top of the cream" libraries - maybe you don't need to EQ that hard anymore, or apply less reverb - but you know what you did to make the Komplete package sound reasonable. Save up your cash from the gigs for a few months, and when you experience limitations, or think you are ready, then you have the cash and experience to make a proper decision.


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## pderbidge

I'm surprised that no one is pushing for the OP to look at some of the newer String libraries. Don't get me wrong, I think Spitfire and OT are great but in the last while I feel like we're starting to see some decent advancements in the way Newer String Libraries from other companies are starting to take us. For example, I Love Lass 2 and find it amazing that it still holds up well today and since I already own it you couldn't pry it away from me, however if I were just starting out I think with the new offerings there are actually reasons not to consider LASS. Furthermore, all of these alternatives are cheaper than OT, Spitfire and Audiobro and yet still very full featured. These are the ones I'd start looking into if I were the OP

1. 8Dio Century Strings - unfortunately just missed the 40% sale on this one so until It goes on sale again I think the next ones on my list are better deals.
2. Cinematic Studio Strings - Great interface and truly great sound.
3. Chris Hein Ensemble Strings - Very flexible with the potential to cover a lot of ground, but perhaps a little daunting to a newcomer
4. Angel Strings- Some very very cool Arts you don't see in the other libs. Perhaps not necessarily a bread and butter library but still worth a look. I plan to get this one myself to add to what I have.
5. Performance Samples- No full string library yet (just cellos) but definitely one to watch out for and the freebies are great.


The other advantage I see in the above, besides price, is that they have a sound that should blend well with just about anything else out there. Don't be fooled into thinking that because these don't have the Name Spitfire or OT on them and that they are half the cost that they are inferior in some way, they are not.

Edit: I suppose the advantage of Spitfire and OT is the "all in" approach with similar workflow and sound, which is not a bad way to go but I don't mind blending different libraries and learning different approaches. I feel I get more flexibility that way.


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## Desire Inspires

Just buy it already. So much thought into something that isn't that extreme of a life event.


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## Vik

I’ll comment on the string part of this only.
If you want only one really good string library with a very good/flexible/advanced user interface, go for Berlin Strings. The section sizes are brilliant; SF Chamber String have very small sections (but is one of my favorite libraries), and SF Symphonic Strings can be difficult if you want a detailed, intimate sound (16 violin1s vs 4 in SCS and 8 in Berlin Strings).

If things like SFs “super sul tasto”, true con sordino, flautando etc is important for you, simply go for Spitfire (Chamber Strings is IMO a clearly better library than Symphonic Strings).

If your budget is limited, go for Cinematic Studio Strings. Really great library too, but with fewer options than the other too.

Libraries generally blend well.


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## bigcat1969

So many opinions and yet still top full orchestra, no ilok, no dongle = Spitfire or Berlin.


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## Henu

Vik said:


> SF Chamber String have very small sections (but is one of my favorite libraries)



Sorry to derail a bit, but since I bought them (as a bundle), I've been dying to understand the purpose of that library. The sound is great and detailed, the flexibility is astonishing and the articulations are incredible. And I can definitely understand why people like it. I'd _love_ to use it more myself- I just can't find any situation where I need that in an orchestral territory.

In which context are you using it personally? I find the sound of SSS being too big and mushy, yet still not heavy enough for justifying the bigness of the sections (a.k.a more "classical"- oriented sound) but SCS, even with 2RR layering sounds a tiny pinch too small for more cinematic stuff. Are you using SCS as "the strings" in a symphonic palette? I know Alex Ball does that, but he tends to layer a lot of stuff, so I guess that is one workaround. But do they qualify as themselves in an orchestral context usually?


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## MatFluor

Henu said:


> Sorry to derail a bit, but since I bought them (as a bundle), I've been dying to understand the purpose of that library. The sound is great and detailed, the flexibility is astonishing and the articulations are incredible. And I can definitely understand why people like it. I'd _love_ to use it more myself- I just can't find any situation where I need that in an orchestral territory.
> 
> In which context are you using it personally? I find the sound of SSS being too big and mushy, yet still not heavy enough for justifying the bigness of the sections (a.k.a more "classical"- oriented sound) but SCS, even with 2RR layering sounds a tiny pinch too small for more cinematic stuff. Are you using SCS as "the strings" in a symphonic palette? I know Alex Ball does that, but he tends to layer a lot of stuff, so I guess that is one workaround. But do they qualify as themselves in an orchestral context usually?



I personally layer SSS and SCS. SSS for the lushness and "size", SCS for the details and gorgeous sound. I use SCS alone for things that really need detail or the like - SSS has a "background" character for my ears - great for sweeping lines or as accompaniment.


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## sinkd

mikeybabes said:


> If I were you, and time isn't urgent, I would consider subscribing to East West Composer Cloud for a bit to get me started off, and then wait and see what comes later this year around the Black Friday sales.
> 
> Spitfire had some very attractive deals around that time last year, and I saved a LOT of money on their normal pricing when I bought the whole orchestra.
> 
> (Also, by that time, you'll know if you want to continue with the crazy hobby.)


This is a great suggestion. If you have time to really try out the East West stuff, it will help you zero in on where it meets your needs and where it doesn't. I use Hollywood Brass, but have other libraries (Spitfire, VSL, Cinesamples, OT) for other things. When you are sure that you need a different english horn, you can go out and find it


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## JohnG

desert said:


> When someone wants to learn how to play violin, no one goes out and buys the most expensive one for their first ever violin.



That is terrible advice.

Get a great-sounding library. Listen carefully to demos and choose among the really good ones: East West, Spitfire, 8dio, LASS -- whatever really rings your bell sonically, offers a lot of articulations, and has multiple mic positions. 

All you get with a weak library is frustration and wasting time. Yes, it does take a long time to master one of these libraries but at least if you're using a good one, your time learning will not be thrown away on rubbish.


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## MatFluor

JohnG said:


> That is terrible advice.
> 
> Get a great-sounding library. Listen carefully to demos and choose among the really good ones: East West, Spitfire, 8dio, LASS -- whatever really rings your bell sonically, offers a lot of articulations, and has multiple mic positions.
> 
> All you get with a weak library is frustration and wasting time. Yes, it does take a long time to master one of these libraries but at least if you're using a good one, your time learning will not be thrown away on rubbish.



That. AS said earlier - that's why I after some frustration bought into what sounded the best to me (or rather, closest to the sound in my head). Since then, I am very happy. No matter what dev it is in the end, or what mixture - but quality is quality.


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## GearNostalgia

Hello. I just recently stepped into the sample library game from years of just using hardware. It was an expensive and painful experience. Think very careful about it and take great care to get unbiased reviews about products before you get anything and read very careful - the brands refund/resales policies. Cause some are far from normal business and can be hidden deep in their legal fine print. If you buy something that turns out bad for you in some way you may very well have ploughed down a huge wad of cash you can never get back in any way. Caution!


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## M0rdechai

let me share what I take from all this:

- going with 1 brand for your full orchestra is not a must, but it will give you an easy well rounded orchestra

- going multiple brands might give a bit of mixing issues, but in most cases won't

- most major brands are all fine, look for what you think sounds nice


I will probably start of with buying CSS (I like the sound and the simplicity), Colossus (or an other one from The Unfinished) and a choir library (probably Dominus, but I'm waiting for Spitfire..). Combined with NI Symphony Essentials I will _fiddle_ around with it until I get more feel of what I want.


thank you all for your input.


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## M0rdechai

ow yeah and on the EWCC:

I don't know why I don't want that.
Maybe it's because I'm renting a house for double the monthly costs of buying the same house, but not being allowed to buy it because 'I don't make enough money'
OR maybe it's because I'm for some reason not inspired by the sounds of EW. I mean they are good, really good, but to me not inspiring, just 'representing the real thing' (if that makes any sense)


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## Shredoverdrive

M0rdechai said:


> ow yeah and on the EWCC:
> 
> I don't know why I don't want that.
> Maybe it's because I'm renting a house for double the monthly costs of buying the same house, but not being allowed to buy it because 'I don't make enough money'
> OR maybe it's because I'm for some reason not inspired by the sounds of EW. I mean they are good, really good, but to me not inspiring, just 'representing the real thing' (if that makes any sense)


This makes sense and if you really think this sound is not for you, fair enough. But keep in mind that you can get a first month subscription for 14.99 dollars, try everything and then cancel it. If you do that at a time when their stuff is on sale, it can be very interesting. That's what I did during the very auspicious "VST Buzz EW Hollywood Orchestra Gold sale / Memorial day sale" combo. I ended up with EWHO and Spaces and cancelled my subscription (and they really work well with my few VSL (Winds) and Chris Hein (Solo strings and winds) instruments). But I could also have bought nothing at all and lost only 15 bucks.
My point is OT and SA make truly wonderful products but they have flaws, as everyone said before, *and they don't allow resale (neither does EW, by the way) . *They don't have demos, either if I'm not mistaken. Think hard before spending that kind of money.


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## Henu

MatFluor said:


> I personally layer SSS and SCS. SSS for the lushness and "size", SCS for the details and gorgeous sound. I use SCS alone for things that really need detail or the like - SSS has a "background" character for my ears - great for sweeping lines or as accompaniment.



Thanks for the tip! So I guess SCS isn't really cutting as the "only" string section in the orchestral string section, but seems to work nicely layered with other libraries to give them the detail they might lack.


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## MatFluor

Henu said:


> Thanks for the tip! So I guess SCS isn't really cutting as the "only" string section in the orchestral string section, but seems to work nicely layered with other libraries to give them the detail they might lack.


I would say it can do that - being as the only string section. But of course it depends on the stuff you make. SCS alone have a lovely sound, and I made stuff with them only and was happy with it. Great if you want a more "old-school" sound.
So, it can definitely pull it off - but it depends what you want.


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## Karma

Henu said:


> Thanks for the tip! So I guess SCS isn't really cutting as the "only" string section in the orchestral string section, but seems to work nicely layered with other libraries to give them the detail they might lack.


It absolutely can, check out the demos for a good example of that


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## Henu

Old-school, you say? Count me in! That's totally my biggest love in orchestral music and most of the stuff I do tends desperately to sound like that (only worse, haha!), both in orchestration and in the sound. So I definitely need to try those out then!!!

EDIT: Thanks Karma, I will revisit those demos again! The more I think of this, the more I start also to think that it's not about the library but the limitations I _personally_ possess to not make it sound as I want. :D


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## JohnG

Henu said:


> Old-school, you say?



SCS was recorded with a very small section. You can't quite do "big" with it, really, even though it's lovely.

I mean, these days there's the whole faux baroque concept and the Scandi thing and all that, so for that kind of thing SCS is certainly A-plus, but if you want "major military confrontation / video game mightiness," I'd opt for SSS or HS or any number of bigger sections. HZ Strings.


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## nas

First off, as has been mentioned, you don't need to stick to just one library developer. I have different sections from several different developers and blend them very effectively without any problems really. Go with a sound that inspires you and is close to what your going for stylistically.

That being said, I would strongly recommend that you not go on a buying spree just yet. Choose a couple of libraries that you feel you really need (as opposed to want), perhaps a solid string library to do the heavy lifting and one other section - from any manufacturer that inspires you and you can afford. Then spend_ a lot of time_ learning the library inside and out and listening to lots of music. Get a feel for the library and learn to work with it's strengths and identify it's weaknesses. The more practice and experience you have - not only in general, but with a specific library, the more you will be able to squeeze out a more musically satisfying result... and that does take some time. 

I find that buying too many libraries all at once can be overwhelming and can dilute your ability to really focus on a single library and get the most out of it. With Komplete 11 you already have quite a bit of great sounds to work with, the Kontakt Factory library in particular has excellent quality orchestral sounds (especially the percussion and woodwinds IMHO) and although they may be slim on articulations you can still really get a lot out of them.

So work with what you have and build on that _gradually_.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.


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## Jeremy Spencer

M0rdechai said:


> OR maybe it's because I'm for some reason not inspired by the sounds of EW. I mean they are good, really good, but to me not inspiring, just 'representing the real thing' (if that makes any sense)



How can you know if they aren't inspiring? You won't know until you actually load them up and try them. It's the same with any developer, but unfortunately we can be sold purely on the demos they post for their products. I fell for that one a few times, just make sure you make educated decisions. And don't make price a factor; if you're serious about getting into this, invest in some top notch libraries. Don't bother with any "starter" libraries, they will kill your inspiration right out of the gate. I cheaped out years ago and bought Garriton Personal Orchestra and it was just plain awful (and still is IMO). Granted, they weren't a lot of options in 2006, but after that I caved and spent $1200 on the old EW Complete Composers Collection (I think there were 40 DVD's in the box!), but it literally paid for itself in spades over the following year. I think you have it narrowed down to some good options though!


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## tehreal

M0rdechai said:


> let me share what I take from all this:
> 
> - going with 1 brand for your full orchestra is not a must, but it will give you an easy well rounded orchestra
> 
> - going multiple brands might give a bit of mixing issues, but in most cases won't
> 
> - most major brands are all fine, look for what you think sounds nice
> 
> 
> I will probably start of with buying CSS (I like the sound and the simplicity), Colossus (or an other one from The Unfinished) and a choir library (probably Dominus, but I'm waiting for Spitfire..). Combined with NI Symphony Essentials I will _fiddle_ around with it until I get more feel of what I want.
> 
> 
> thank you all for your input.



Nice balanced approach. I like it. Additional +1 for Colossus. Matt Bowdler is a ridiculously talented sound designer.


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## desert

JohnG said:


> That is terrible advice.
> 
> Get a great-sounding library. Listen carefully to demos and choose among the really good ones: East West, Spitfire, 8dio, LASS -- whatever really rings your bell sonically, offers a lot of articulations, and has multiple mic positions.
> 
> All you get with a weak library is frustration and wasting time. Yes, it does take a long time to master one of these libraries but at least if you're using a good one, your time learning will not be thrown away on rubbish.


I dont think hollywood strings is a weak library at all and it’s cheap.

Why buy a porche, if you can’t drive a car?

For a person who has very minimal knowledge of orchestration, they’re not going to learn by spend $$$$ on spitfire cause it sounds better. How would they know what it’s supposed to sound like?

Jeremy soule was composing beautiful soundtracks years ago with shitty samples.

Thomas bergerson could make shit samples sound great.

This forum loves promoting samples before we tell them to invest in the theory/foundation first.

Too many hobbyists just give up cause they thought buying the best would make their music sound better


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## GearNostalgia

nas said:


> I find that buying too many libraries all at once can be overwhelming and can dilute your ability to really focus on a single library and get the most out of it. With Komplete 11 you already have quite a bit of great sounds to work with, the Kontakt Factory library in particular has excellent quality orchestral sounds (especially the percussion and woodwinds IMHO) and although they may be slim on articulations you can still really get a lot out of them.
> 
> So work with what you have and build on that _gradually_.
> 
> Just my 2 cents. Good luck.



That is true about everything. I am an utter sinner in the department of not using my gear to their full potential. Good rule, hard to follow.


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## Parsifal666

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The truth is that
> 
> a) It doesn't really matter which libraries you use
> b) You can't possibly make an educated decision at this point.
> 
> Therefore I would strongly advise against breaking the bank and getting thousands of dollars and hundreds of gigabytes worth of samples in one go.
> It takes a lot of time to really get the hang of the whole orchestral samples thing. I would give myself that time.



Excellent post! Please don't blow your money yet. EW Composer Cloud beckons...it gives you time to

a) figure out whether you're mostly just content with what EW is offering (which is quite possible as some of the favorite composers around here still use EW), plus if you read up on their manuals and check out the videos you'll be better capable of making (as Jimmy mentioned) an educated decision.

b) figure out whether you really want to be a composer or are just dying to spend money.

There are more bs around vi-control then you might expect btw. Either way, you won't be alone.


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## GearNostalgia

desert said:


> I dont think hollywood strings is a weak library at all and it’s cheap.
> 
> Why buy a porche, if you can’t drive a car?
> 
> For a person who has very minimal knowledge of orchestration, they’re not going to learn by spend $$$$ on spitfire cause it sounds better. How would they know what it’s supposed to sound like?
> 
> Jeremy soule was composing beautiful soundtracks years ago with shitty samples.
> 
> Thomas bergerson could make shit samples sound great.
> 
> This forum loves promoting samples before we tell them to invest in the theory/foundation first.
> 
> Too many hobbyists just give up cause they thought buying the best would make their music sound better



Well I thought the same when I should renovate my house. "I am a beginner. I can not use pro tools. So I will just get cheap DIY stuff". After a weeks of cursing "how the f**k do they get this to fit together I realised my tablesaw could not cut perfect angles and my screwdriver was too weak to drive in big enough screws". So I had to buy the pro tools after I had gotten the cheap stuff. So it was just even more costly. Now I agree that is not perfectly true about music, Depeche Mode could make songs with ping pong balls and I guess Freddy Mercury could have rocked any stage just singing and stomping his foot. But I still thing that in general it is better to buy the good stuff you really want rather than cheap stuff in the start that you end up discarding. As for sample libraries this sadly does apply even harder since your can buy expensive stuff from 8Dio and others that sounds great in the demos but suck when you play them. And also you have a legal bond that prevent you from recovering any off that purchase. So choose with great care.


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## Consona

desert said:


> Jeremy soule was composing beautiful soundtracks years ago with shitty samples.


Yea.

This is 18 years old, done with some old version of Garritan iirc. Sounds great.

But I have to say, for some things, you just need a specific/more modern library. Like playable runs patches in CS2, I don't know any other way how to make that sound unless I have this particular library. So while I agree you can make some very well sounding music with older cheaper stuff, sometimes it can be very limiting when you want to use techniques those older or any other libs won't handle.

Like this runs thing. You can buy some very modern quite expensive string libraries but not many will sound as good as CS2 when it comes to this specific articulation.


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## Parsifal666

Consona said:


> Yea.
> 
> This is 18 years old, done with some old version of Garritan iirc. Sounds great.




This is so cool! Thank you.


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## JohnG

desert said:


> I dont think hollywood strings is a weak library at all and it’s cheap.



I didn't write that. On the contrary, I'm a huge fan of East West and use their stuff constantly. In fact, one mystery to me is their pricing, given that the sound of their samples is equal to or better than that of some more recent libraries.

Moreover, PLAY seems to have settled down. I am not saying it's better than / not better than, Kontakt or some other player, but it works fine for me. (actually, it always has worked fine here but I don't want to revive that debate).

That said, the key in choosing a library is to listen, using good speakers or at least very good headphones, to the finest resolution (WAV if possible) demos of _any _library before buying. But for sure get a really good one with multiple mic positions.

And remember: the most expensive library out there costs less than 1/3 of one semester at a private university in the USA. Plus, you can run a pretty good amount of it on a computer that costs $2-5k, so the entire thing is actually a bargain these days.

Your _time_ is at stake, the one thing you can't get more of; if you really want to be a composer and need these tools to do it (to persuade a producer to hire you, for example), don't "save money" if you have it.

Naturally, there's no reason waste money either; if you like East West, you can write awesome music with it.

[note: I have received free products from East West]


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## robgb

The answer comes down to this question: how much time do you want to spend learning to mix/engineer your compositions? If the answer is "not much," then you're much better off staying with a single developer's ecosystem, especially one like Spitfire's with its built-in Air Studios room sound. If the answer is "I want to learn to mix also," then there's absolutely nothing wrong with mixing and matching and layering various developers' libraries, because if you learn to mix properly, most of the problems of mixing and matching can be solved in one way or another.

I opt toward learning how to mix because that's a big part of the job these days. If not for the final mix, then for a mix you'd present to whoever is hiring you, which you'd want to sound really good.


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## Parsifal666

JohnG said:


> I didn't write that. On the contrary, I'm a huge fan of East West and use their stuff constantly. In fact, one mystery to me is their pricing, given that the sound of their samples is equal to or better than that of some more recent libraries.
> 
> Moreover, PLAY seems to have settled down. I am not saying it's better than / not better than, Kontakt or some other player, but it works fine for me. (actually, it always has worked fine here but I don't want to revive that debate).
> 
> Naturally, there's no reason waste money either; if you like East West, you can write awesome music with it.



It's true, the orchestral libraries from EW are timelessly great. They're one of the reasons there are a few big name libraries I own but never use, like Albion II, Met Ark 1, and Strezov (no reason to not pick up any of those fine libraries though, as any one or all of them might suit your vision and personal composition needs more).


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## bigcat1969

I don't know if this was mentioned, but a nice read...

https://orchestralvst.wordpress.com/


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## Parsifal666

robgb said:


> The answer comes down to this question: how much time do you want to spend learning to mix/engineer your compositions? If the answer is "not much," then you're much better off staying with a single developer's ecosystem, especially one like Spitfire's with it's built-in Air Studios room sound. If the answer is "I want to learn to mix also," then there's absolutely nothing wrong with mixing and matching and layering various developers' libraries, because if you learn to mix properly, most of the problems of mixing and matching can be solved in one way or another.
> 
> I opt toward learning how to mix because that's a big part of the job these days. If not for the final mix, then for a mix you'd present to whoever is hiring you, which you'd want to sound really good.



This kind of post by Rob is really valuable to _anyone_ looking to get into making music. 

You could go EW (or whatever floats your boat...something at least relatively dry) and get knowledgeable on how to use it; take some courses (plenty free on youtube and elsewhere) on engineering, and then be able to pick and choose your future libraries much more thriftily and utilitarianistically.


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## robgb

Parsifal666 said:


> This kind of post by Rob is really valuable to _anyone_ looking to get into making music.


Thanks. I've spent 50+ years learning how to create music. I've spent the last five or so learning how to properly record and mix it (despite using DAWs for many more years). These last five have been the most rewarding, and I'm still not even close to where I'd like to be.


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## Alex Fraser

I think ultimately, everyone's journey is different. We all have different skill levels, mindsets, creative processes, ears, OCD levels, time....

The "best" way or "best" library doesn't exist. What worked for one person won't work for the second. So just get what you want (within your budget) and just start. No overthinking on the internet.


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## Consona

Parsifal666 said:


> This is so cool! Thank you.




Sorry for the off-topic but...
Check the whole soundtrack.  It's so great!

His best score, IMO.

And give a listen to the other Infinity Engine RPGs soundtracks (Baldur's Gate I and II, Planescape: Torment), some of my fave music (and games) ever.



Hollywood movies can only wish they had such good themes. 
I don't know the sample libs used on the BG2 soundtrack, but it sounds fantastic.


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## robgb

Consona said:


> Like playable runs patches in CS2, I don't know any other way how to make that sound unless I have this particular library.


I agree, but CS2 is so damn wet I hate having to deal with it (despite learning the aforementioned mixing skills). It mostly sits unused on my sample libraries drive.


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## robgb

Consona said:


> Sorry for the off-topic but...
> Check the whole soundtrack.  It's so great!
> 
> His best score, IMO.




"There are no other strings being used at Artistry Entertainment now. Everything you hear is GOS."
~Jeremy Soule, from an interview in 2002.

I wonder what he uses now.


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## Consona

robgb said:


> I agree, but CS2 is so damn wet I hate having to deal with it (despite learning the aforementioned mixing skills). It mostly sits unused on my sample libraries drive.


Really?! I use CS2 with Cinebrass, which is not that wet, and they sound very good next to each other. I use CS2 the most since the sound is sooo good and it has features like live mode and run mode which make those strings sound so "real". 



robgb said:


> "There are no other strings being used at Artistry Entertainment now. Everything you hear is GOS."
> ~Jeremy Soule, from an interview in 2002.
> 
> I wonder what he uses now.


I know what Jeremy used, but don't know anything about Michael Hoenig's instruments. BG2 soundtrack sounds sooo good.


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## JohnG

indeed, some of the old libraries COULD sound good, but:

a. It took for-e-ver to coax them into some kind of decent sound;

b. They needed a million orchestration tricks to cover the "seams" and bits that stuck out or sounded un-musical; and

c. There were some kinds of passages that never sounded good, no matter what.

Put another way, a solo cellist can do about 10,000 cool things with his instrument. 1990s-era samples could maybe do five? Maybe a few more? Not a lot though.

Definitely not a particle on what samples can accomplish today, and took 3-4x as much time.


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## Parsifal666

robgb said:


> I agree, but CS2 is so damn wet I hate having to deal with it (despite learning the aforementioned mixing skills). It mostly sits unused on my sample libraries drive.



Such is Albion I.


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## nas

GearNostalgia said:


> That is true about everything. I am an utter sinner in the department of not using my gear to their full potential. Good rule, hard to follow.



Yes it is a tough rule to follow, and I've found myself "falling behind" a few times when a sale hits and I start buying up a few libraries. But I can usually make up for it when I've got some down time from a project and can spend some time diving deeper into a library without fear of a deadline looming. In the end it's time well invested and makes for a much better end product when you do have to deliver.


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## danbo

I'm just starting out with composing for DAW (have background in classical composition) and got the EastWest Diamond Orchestra on the recent sale. I couldn't be more pleased with the purchase. I upgraded Play to the for purchase version 6, and have found the interface excellent to work with for a beginner. The scripting in the library works well to let me accomplish my task, I haven't found that I'm fighting the library to get the results I want. 

Biggest beginner challenge is getting your hands around the depth of this library and understanding how to use it. I've been watching videos, reading manuals and most importantly just fooling around with play and my keyboard. I keep discovering new patches that do really useful or interesting stuff. Also spending a lot of time getting my DAW configured for it, figuring out how to use the new Logic articulation switching system with Play took a while. 

Anyhow while I don't own other libraries, from my research I think I made the right choice, no plans to add other libraries later as this has more than enough for me.


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