# Which used touchpad in 2020?



## Dewdman42 (Mar 19, 2020)

Alright with the home lockdown, I am going to take my free time and finally start messing around with TouchOSC/Lemur, etc.. to make a control surface for my DAW.

I don't own any iPad or Android device at this time. I do have an iPhone (and use Mac). Which second-hand iPad (or other) would you guys recommend for this purpose? I don't want to spend a lot, but I also don't want to buy an older touchpad only to find out it won't run a new enough version of iOS for example to support this kind of stuff.

what do you recommend?


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## Markus Kohlprath (Mar 19, 2020)

I can't guarantee that the newest version of lemur is running with it but I have the first ipad air with lemur and it is basically my midi controller for articulations and cc1, cc11, vibrato, aftertouch control. Works like a charm for years. What is great is you can set up all buttons, faders exactly as you want and need it. E.g. cc1 is big enough that I don't have to watch it while in action. The touchscreen control is absolutely snappy without any disturbing latency. At least for me.


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## sbarrettmusic (Mar 19, 2020)

I am also using a first-gen iPad air but with TouchOSC.


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## jononotbono (Mar 19, 2020)

Probably best to wear surgical gloves when you use it if you're buying one secondhand at the minute!


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## jononotbono (Mar 19, 2020)

I use an Air 2 with Metagrid. OSC works on it too but I don't have it installed at the minute.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 21, 2020)

So it looks like some of the following solutions all look interesting and lots of varying opinions on this site about which is preferred:


Lemur
MetaGrid
Composer Tools Pro
TouchOSC
And a few people have apparently jumped ship to StreamDeck. What are the pros and cons of a StreamDeck vs an iPad solution? Anyone using both and why would you use one versus the other?


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## jononotbono (Mar 21, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> So it looks like some of the following solutions all look interesting and lots of varying opinions on this site about which is preferred:
> 
> 
> Lemur
> ...



Ok so Lemur (not sure if its still supported? Lost track a while ago. However, this is very much a "build your touch template exactly how you want from scratch" state of affairs. It's excellent providing you have the love for digging deep and learning how it properly works. I regard this the same as OSC.

Composer Tools Pro is from Midi Kinetics and I think they Use Lemur (it's been a while since I looked into that - but I did have their earlier iPad Touch temples that did use Lemur). It's very comprehensive, it's really whether you want that for your workflow. It has Faders, Knobs, Buttons, Articulation Switching, bidirectional communication (as does touch OSC). It's a great template if you don't want to build one but you obviously have to work how the template is designed (as with anything bought).

Metagrid. There are no faders or Knobs. Perhaps will be in the future. You can assign key commands, macros and other options in Cubase (just like you can with the others. I would say if Appledesigned a touch app, this is what it would look like. If you just want some buttons to fire off commands then this is a cheap and quick solution.

Streamdeck. I've just bought one. Mainly because I want it to control lighting but this box is very cool. It's just buttons (no faders or knobs) but it is hardwired via usb and that means no bullshit latency or misfiring of commands. The reliability is the main reason people will be using one. Well, that's what I think about it. Anyway, they are my brief thoughts about all of these whilst I sip a bottle of Corona.


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## sbarrettmusic (Mar 21, 2020)

I use both a Stream Deck and TouchOSC. The nice thing about the Stream Deck is you can organize things into folders and use your own custom icons, and like Jono said it is hard wired and has buttons that give you that physical feedback you might miss from an iPad. Also it is compact enough that you can place it next to your keyboard, basically making it an extension of your keyboard. I mostly use it to trigger key commands that I can't or don't want to memorize, and it's just as quick as hitting a key command since it's right there within reach.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 21, 2020)

its a good point about the physical buttons. When you press it you will feel it click and know you activated it without looking at the screen to confirm. With an iPad you never know for sure whether the button actually did what its supposed to do unless you are either looking at the iPad and seeing something flash or looking on your computer monitor to observe the thing happened that you wanted to happen. I can see that as a real good reason to use a stream deck for executing commands. Are people doing anything with them to control midi or OSC, or is it mainly just going to execute key commands from within apps?

Looks to me like Metagrid is basically a virtual version of StreamDeck...you can use fancy buttons (unlike TouchOSC and Lemur), which I see as an advantage on the iPad for that particular use cause of making buttons. Also it can send midi which stream deck can't do? But..not the physical buttons as noted... Anything else about Metagrid I should know about?

TouchOSC is interesting because I bought long ago for my iPhone, its cheap, simple..and I think it works fine for a couple simple virtual faders for cheap, but I know I will want more then that for my ultimate articulation management. That is going to come down probably to Lemur at the very least.. possibly metagrid...but no faders....or possibly Composer Tools Pro if I can understand what the work flow is like with that. I wish I could justify patchboard, but I can't unless he makes it a LOT less expensive. (as in $99 or less).

There might be a use case for using both the iPad and a StreamDeck, I will have to ponder that.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 21, 2020)

Is anyone using the surface Pro instead for this kind of thing, or is all the coolest touchpad stuff basically running on iOS and Android?


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## sbarrettmusic (Mar 21, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Are people doing anything with them to control midi or OSC, or is it mainly just going to execute key commands from within apps?
> 
> Also it can send midi which stream deck can't do?



Stream Deck actually can send midi now. It took a while, but they finally created a Midi Button extension that can send midi notes, CC, program change and MMC.

There is also an extension called KM Link which allows you to trigger Keyboard Maestro macros directly from the Stream Deck (without needing to assign some random key command), so if you have KM it becomes even more useful!


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 21, 2020)

That's very good to know! Now if they just add OSC it will be a powerhouse. But the fact it can do MIDI is very good news for nothing else I could use that for simple keyswitching


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## sostenuto (Mar 21, 2020)

Wacom Intuos Pro is my current Win10 Pro / Reaper tablet. Major potential, definite 'eye-hand' learning curve. Architects, Media artists use it daily, but that is likely what it takes to be proficient.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Mar 21, 2020)

For those of you who don't have a Streamdeck, it has a bunch of extra programs revealed by clicking the "more actions" button in the bottom right of the Streamdeck app. This lets you have things like games, a clock, etc. 

One is "Cubase"





After you install it, you can drag it into any empty spot, and it will give you access to a lot of pre-built key commands, arranged by category and command









There's also a thing with MIDI commands, but I haven't used it yet.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 21, 2020)

hmm, I'm running the stream deck app right now to see what it can do. i can't find a Cubase plugin under More Actinos. Is that a windows-only thing?


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 21, 2020)

I definitely see the MIDI and OSC plugins, so that's cool. Being able to send OSC means I can do just about anything through OSCulator and/or control my X32 mixer a bit, etc. This is cool...


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## Reid Rosefelt (Mar 21, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> hmm, I'm running the stream deck app right now to see what it can do. i can't find a Cubase plugin under More Actinos. Is that a windows-only thing?


If you don’t see it, I guess so.


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## jononotbono (Jul 16, 2020)

ka00 said:


> like watching Russel Brand if he knew about DAWs and VIs.



I'm glad you like my video booky wooks on Metagrid and touch screens 




ka00 said:


> I'm just wondering if you've figured out a way to have a page of articulations show up automatically once you select an instrument? Mikhel Zilmer's wonderful template videos show this is possible with Lemur, but I haven't figured out if this is possible with Metagrid.



Ah... Biodirectional communication. Well, it's something I've been meaning to do but every time I want to, something else comes up in my life. I started building an expression map template but my current job has just been so demanding that I just want to write music instead of building new templates. If I make a video on doing this, I'll make sure I post it here


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## mediterrano (Dec 11, 2021)

I use Cubase 11 Pro, several iPads, incl. big and small iPad Pros and have bought the following apps:

ZenDaw
MetaGrid
Cubase IC Pro
Lemur+Composer Tools Pro

I bought them all because they all do not cost much so I thought better to invest my time into putting them in best use instead of trying to find out which has most features.

In your opinion, what would be the best separation of duties between these apps?
Objectives being:
a) to cover as much territory as possible
b) to avoid more than one app covering the same functions & features
c) fastest possible workflow


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## mburellmusic (Dec 11, 2021)

If you have multiple iPad, then for me it's definitely different devices that do different things. C is the result of A and B  Why do you want to avoid duplicating functions?


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## mediterrano (Dec 12, 2021)

Because I would prefer those different iPads to do different things. Why to have them doing (partly) same things and by doing that to waste the limited total screen real-estate.


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## mburellmusic (Dec 13, 2021)

mediterrano said:


> Because I would prefer those different iPads to do different things. Why to have them doing (partly) same things and by doing that to waste the limited total screen real-estate.


You can also embed Lemur controllers inside other Lemur controllers.


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