# How Much do You Charge for a 30 sec. Commercial?



## Rodney Money (Nov 3, 2015)

How much do you charge for a 30 sec. commercial?


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 3, 2015)

It usually doesn't go that way: an agency calls you and tells you they have $xxxx for the job.
Up to you to accept or not.
Acceptable fees can go from $1,000 to 5 digits rates, but the industry rates have gone down steadily since 2008.
Some will do it for less than $1,000 but personally, I've never accepted low ball jobs.
But of course, if you need to create a reel and have never done it, then doing it for next to nothing may be an option...


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Nov 3, 2015)

I just recently did a commercial for an organic juice bar.
It is 1m 10s in length and will be played on their facebook page and in one local cinema. No television broadcast.
I got the gig from a friend who couldn't do it.
I quoted $800, but was told my friend was originally getting $300 for it. So we met in the middle-ish at $500.
Because of the low budget, I only licensed the track to them, so I retain all publishing and copyrights.

Some will probably frown upon me for doing it for that price, but I say 'boo-hoo' to them.
You work out a fee that is suitable for your situation. For what it was, I'm happy with the result.


----------



## Daryl (Nov 3, 2015)

In my experience there are two stages for this. Getting the gig by pitching, and then the fee, if you get the gig, which is essence a licence fee for specific usage. Pitching fee is negotiable, but I tend to charge a minimum of £250, depending on how long the ad is. Fee for usage can be tiny or large, so it all depends on what your circumstances are. What suits me may not suit you. Or you may have a hole in your schedule and can knock the thing out in a couple of hours.

D


----------



## reddognoyz (Nov 3, 2015)

Back in the day.... sigh. It's all turned to crap for composers, musicians, and singers. 
I used to get $1200-1500 to do demos for commercials. You could make a living doing that if you were really good at it, even if you didn't get awarded any spots. With a demo fee like that from the ad agency you could be assured that A) it wasn't a cattle call, and B) the agency/creatives/producers had some skin in the game, there was due consideration for your work. These days they can get all sorts of demos for free, hundreds if they want. The perception these days is music is something you can just download, you know?? 

I haven't done a spot on over a year, not that I would pass up a real one, they are just very few and far between for me. The last ones I did were :15's I was still getting good money for them. $15k which included music/sound design/VO records/ mix. I think that is close to the high end, I don't really know. The whole business has changed. 

I got those spots because I had done a ton of work for the agency waaaaay back in the day, and the Agency music Producer knew me. He hadn't hired me in years, but the brand producer was a guy I knew from working on a cartoon series that he worked on as well, and these were animated spots. Without the serendipity of the three things, I would have never gotten to do the jobs.

The Agency fired the producer, and disbanded the entire music department this year, so I doubt I'll hear from them again.


----------



## Mike Greene (Nov 3, 2015)

reddognoyz said:


> I used to get $1200-1500 to do demos for commercials.


I remember that, too. Funny thing is that it actually pissed me off, because screw the $1,500, I felt insulted that a client would field demos from anyone else. (I had gotten spoiled by clients just assigning gigs to me.) I have to admit, though, it did make me try harder, because I didn't want to ever lose.

I think the beginning of the end was when music houses would be competing for these spots as well. They'd get their $1,500 demo fee as well, but they'd divide it up amongst however many composers they had pitching. So the client would get one or two demos from me, and ten or twenty from some music house. Eventually they'd say, "How come we're paying Mike $1,500 and getting one or two demos, when we could pay a couple music houses $1,500 each and get dozens?"

Which, of course, devolved into, "Why are we paying the music houses anything at all? We could just make this a cattle call!"

I only do one or two commercials a year nowadays, and they're like Stuart's gig, where it's a client who already knows me and is used to the days of decent money. Although I ain't gettin' no $15,000 a spot! More like $5k for mine. Low by old-days standards, but decent for today's.


----------



## reddognoyz (Nov 3, 2015)

Mike Greene said:


> I ain't gettin' no $15,000 a spot! More like $5k for mine. Low by old-days standards, but decent for today's.



Also ascap and afm resids! Like it was 1986! I don't think I'm getting that again. This was a very old and established Agency and with a very large client.


----------



## Guffy (Nov 3, 2015)

reddognoyz said:


> Back in the day.... sigh. It's all turned to crap for composers, musicians, and singers.
> I used to get $1200-1500 to do demos for commercials.


And these days, people pay for others to consider using their music.


----------



## Rodney Money (Nov 4, 2015)

reddognoyz said:


> Back in the day.... sigh. It's all turned to crap for composers, musicians, and singers.
> I used to get $1200-1500 to do demos for commercials. You could make a living doing that if you were really good at it, even if you didn't get awarded any spots. With a demo fee like that from the ad agency you could be assured that A) it wasn't a cattle call, and B) the agency/creatives/producers had some skin in the game, there was due consideration for your work. These days they can get all sorts of demos for free, hundreds if they want. The perception these days is music is something you can just download, you know??
> 
> I haven't done a spot on over a year, not that I would pass up a real one, they are just very few and far between for me. The last ones I did were :15's I was still getting good money for them. $15k which included music/sound design/VO records/ mix. I think that is close to the high end, I don't really know. The whole business has changed.
> ...


Thank you all for your wonderful advice, and redog, thank you for Doc Mcstuffins! You don't know how much your work impacts our family's daily life! My 2 year-old, Molly Aria, Mom, and I love it.


----------



## tack (Nov 4, 2015)

Jdiggity1 said:


> I quoted $800, but was told my friend was originally getting $300 for it. So we met in the middle-ish at $500.


How much time did it take you to complete the gig, all in? I'd be terrified to calculate my hourly rate. 

To make it worth quitting my day job, I'd need to complete that 70 seconds of music and deal with all the other business interactions in 6 hours. Eep.

I can see why working fast is a hugely important quality to have in this business.


----------



## gbar (Nov 4, 2015)




----------



## Rodney Money (Nov 4, 2015)

gbar said:


>



Sounds like a great plan.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Nov 4, 2015)

tack said:


> How much time did it take you to complete the gig, all in? I'd be terrified to calculate my hourly rate.
> 
> To make it worth quitting my day job, I'd need to complete that 70 seconds of music and deal with all the other business interactions in 6 hours. Eep.
> 
> I can see why working fast is a hugely important quality to have in this business.



I don't have a 'day job'. Being a recent graduate, I have nothing to lose, so I'm building a portfolio and making friends. I would not do it this cheap if it were my living.
It's an orchestral track that follows animation like a short cartoon, so a bit more involved than your average ukelele + hand claps jingle. Did it over three days with other stuff in between.


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 5, 2015)

seems like this commercial music got $120,000
http://www.ispot.tv/ad/A7LO/michelob-ultra-night-club

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-picture/1041023-cue-worth-125-000-buyout.html


----------



## LamaRose (Nov 5, 2015)

gsilbers said:


> seems like this commercial music got $120,000
> 
> Par for the quality-course these days. At least it wasn't a rap-ditty; that would have cost them at least twice as much.


----------



## patrick76 (Nov 5, 2015)

gsilbers said:


> seems like this commercial music got $120,000


Unless the music was written by a popular artist I do not believe that. Even in the heyday of ad music that would be an outrageous sum for a normal media composer. But, I guess it helps them sell their pay to play service. Maybe they paid the 120k directly to the composer and chalked it up to advertising costs and the real ad agency payed nothing at all for the music


----------



## mbagalacomposer (Nov 5, 2015)

Not sure its been fully explained in this thread....but there is a difference between a demo fee and the actual payout if you win a call. 

Payouts can vary pretty wildly between a couple grand to as mentioned over 100,000 (Though probably not so much anymore and its really quite rare). 

Demo fees usually go anywhere from 300-1,000 in my experience....and much more in the 300-500 range. I freelance for a couple established companies and thats usually what I'm looking at. 

I guess its the nature of freelancing but its tough thing to make work economically....never know how many gigs you're going to have in a given month or if you're going to win anything but, its definitely achievable.


----------



## bonebones (Nov 23, 2015)

this is all very dependant on usage and terms. TVC, cinema, radio, online? Three months, one year? National or worldwide?
I usually try and make it fit to clients budget by limiting terms. Loosely 10k USD will get you a worldwide TVC for twelve months. I'd happily do something for 2k but you wouldn't be able to use it for more than three months nor internationally.


----------



## Rodney Money (Nov 23, 2015)

bonebones said:


> this is all very dependant on usage and terms. TVC, cinema, radio, online? Three months, one year? National or worldwide?
> I usually try and make it fit to clients budget by limiting terms. Loosely 10k USD will get you a worldwide TVC for twelve months. I'd happily do something for 2k but you wouldn't be able to use it for more than three months nor internationally.


This commercial will be across a few states, and used on tv, radio, web, etc. for as long as they want. So how much would you charge now? They will start filming in 2 weeks.


----------



## germancomponist (Nov 23, 2015)

It depends, as always. You can do a 30 sec. commercial for a local radio station an earn 300 $, or you can do it for cinema and earn 3.000.- $ and maybe much more .... . The same work, but ... .


----------



## JT (Nov 23, 2015)

I realize that I'm an old-timer and times are different now, but I remember getting hired by music production companies, getting arranging fees of $300-$400 per spot, plus getting a slot on the union contract, session fee and any subsequent residuals. 

For them to use the music in any media format they wish, for as long as they want, don't sell yourself short here. The more they pay, the more satisfied they will feel about getting the best. But, if you really want the gig and think it's going to lead to other opportunities, then quote them the absolute minimum you will accept.

But remember, don't take any advice you get on the internet. Make a decision you can live with.


----------



## NYC Composer (Nov 24, 2015)

Full agency budget in 1990 went something like this (for national or big regional spots):

Creative fee-$10,000
Arranging fees- $5000
Union musician contract- between $1000-$3000
Singers contract- $2000.00
Studio budget- around $3000

The total number they usually had in mind as a base figure was between 20-25k.

Last year I did a local buyout spot for $900 total including singer.
I also licensed a piece to advertising for $20,000 plus royalties.

This year I've done one for $750 and one for $7000. So the idea is, it's just all over the map.

My absolute major piece of advice is- try to find out what the market will bear. Try to get a number from them. It's a game of chicken. If you get a number from them, you can say "well, that might be a little low...how about...$ XXXX ?"


----------



## Daryl (Nov 24, 2015)

Ask them what their budget for musicians is. That normally separates the men from the boys. So to speak... 

D


----------



## bonebones (Nov 24, 2015)

Rodney Money said:


> This commercial will be across a few states, and used on tv, radio, web, etc. for as long as they want. So how much would you charge now? They will start filming in 2 weeks.



Well I guess the question is how much can you charge before they give the job to someone else? I would make it work to their budget. If they offer you 1k I would say ok, but only usage for three months and three states for TV and radio (and offer a rollover for same terms and money). If their budget is 10k I would encourage and say you can have it for nationwide across all mediums ad infinitum. For me it all depends on the size of the client and whether it's through an agency. 5-15% off the overall budget is usually given to music and mix down. Hope that helps.


----------



## Rodney Money (Nov 24, 2015)

bonebones said:


> Well I guess the question is how much can you charge before they give the job to someone else? I would make it work to their budget. If they offer you 1k I would say ok, but only usage for three months and three states for TV and radio (and offer a rollover for same terms and money). If their budget is 10k I would encourage and say you can have it for nationwide across all mediums ad infinitum. For me it all depends on the size of the client and whether it's through an agency. 5-15% off the overall budget is usually given to music and mix down. Hope that helps.


Sounds like a plan.


----------



## SuperD (Nov 24, 2015)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Because of the low budget, I only licensed the track to them, so I retain all publishing and copyrights.



Sorry to derail the conversation a little... This is one aspect of the business I'm still trying to figure out. Can anyone point me in the right direction on "how" to actually do this licensing stuff? I'm clueless.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Nov 25, 2015)

SuperD said:


> Sorry to derail the conversation a little... This is one aspect of the business I'm still trying to figure out. Can anyone point me in the right direction on "how" to actually do this licensing stuff? I'm clueless.


In writing.
You shouldn't do any job without both parties signing a contract/agreement, so you just state your terms somewhere in there.
No certificates, no registrations, just a written agreement.


----------



## SuperD (Nov 25, 2015)

Jdiggity1 said:


> In writing.
> You shouldn't do any job without both parties signing a contract/agreement, so you just state your terms somewhere in there.
> No certificates, no registrations, just a written agreement.


Yes, understood. But I've never seen a previous written agreement. I don't have any friends that are composers so have no references that I can ask for, except for the kind folks here on the forums. If anyone can help me out with a basic structure of what/how to write it, I'd really appreciate it.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Nov 25, 2015)

SuperD said:


> Yes, understood. But I've never seen a previous written agreement. I don't have any friends that are composers so have no references that I can ask for, except for the kind folks here on the forums. If anyone can help me out with a basic structure of what/how to write it, I'd really appreciate it.



http://denizhughes.com/resources.html

The 2nd option is specifically for licensing.


----------



## SuperD (Nov 26, 2015)

Jdiggity1 said:


> http://denizhughes.com/resources.html
> 
> The 2nd option is specifically for licensing.


Wow! Goldmine. Thanks man!


----------



## geoffreyvernon (Jan 7, 2016)

honestly, for me i've always found it depends on their budget. my company charges anywhere from 5k to 15k for something like this. budget, audience, and geo-location of the ad all play into factors for when my company licenses a track out!


----------



## kkproductions (Feb 20, 2016)

I did a low-budget national spot for Make A Wish last year that paid $2,000 for 30 seconds. Great creative team on that one!


----------

