# Music theory newbie question: principle of composition



## Crimson (Apr 16, 2006)

Hi, 

Today I had a thought. I think that I finally understand some of the rules for composition or how musical pieces work in general. Of course, I might be completely wrong, so please tell me if that's the case 

The principle behind composition is this (I think): you choose a key for your piece like E or C; then, when you start composing your melody, you only use notes from scales that have been fitted for the key you chose, like C Melodic Minor for the key of C. I also figured that it is okay to change the scale in the middle of your piece as long as it's fitted for the key of the piece.

I'm asking someone with better knowledge to confirm my theory, please let me know if I'm completely off the mark.


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## Stephen Rees (Apr 16, 2006)

I don't think you sum up composition in a neat little package and have a 'eureka' moment. There's no e=mc2 formula or anything like that. Some music isn't in any key for example so that would upset your theory for a start.

Here's a very good book written on composition by Schoenberg..........

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0571196586/qid=1145216699/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/202-6240833-9735024 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 33-9735024)

Its a good read but presupposes some knowledge of theory and harmony. But even Schoenberg who knew so much can't cover the total concept of 'composition' in a neat little book. It is something you study for yourself throughout your life.


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## José Herring (Apr 16, 2006)

Crimson @ Sun Apr 16 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Today I had a thought. I think that I finally understand some of the rules for composition or how musical pieces work in general. Of course, I might be completely wrong, so please tell me if that's the case
> 
> ...



Very well done for at least understanding a compositional device. But your statement as I understand you isn't going to lead to much success composing satisfying pieces.

Back in the early days of composing for me I sat down and isolated the basic components of music. They are:

Melody
Harmony
rhythm 
form 
orchestration

I had no idea if I was correct and to this day have no idea if I was right all I know is that it lead to some results in undertanding music. Basically if you can understand the concepts and the few rules that govern the above subjects you'll be able to compose fairly well.

Any number of books will help you with these subjects. Usually I stick to the books that where written by people that actually could compose music and not books by music theory people.

best,

Jose


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## choc0thrax (Apr 16, 2006)

In film music for example you are going to be changing keys a lot. What kind of music are you composing?


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## Daryl (Apr 16, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Sun Apr 16 said:


> In film music for example you are going to be changing keys a lot. What kind of music are you composing?


Actually that's not strictly speaking always true. It would be nice to be able to do so, but it makes a music editor's job a nightmare. Therefore you will find that a lot of high profile scores stay more or less in the same key for a large portion of the score.

D


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## choc0thrax (Apr 16, 2006)

Hmm that's not what I heard but it's not like i've tried to verify it one way or the other...i'm lazy.


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## Crimson (Apr 17, 2006)

Thank you all for your replies.

josejherring: I've been having similar experiences with composition as I'm just starting out. It has been like stumbling blindly in the dark for me. I didn't know what I should be doing, and not having had the patience to thoroughly study my composition books hasn't helped either. I've been looking for some simple rules that I could understand to give me at least somekind of direction.

choc0thrax: I would like to be able to compose film-score -like music some day.

Stephen Rees: Yes, I understand that there are some types of music that don't have any rules governing them. And if there are rules, most of them could be broken anyway. Thanks for suggesting that book, I'll check it out.

I guess I have a bit of studying to do if I want to be able to compose well. I just need to take the time to do it.


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## Waywyn (Apr 17, 2006)

i think a good exercise to start composing is to create little motivs for melodies.
think about lyrics and listen to a lot of melodies. you will explore that it is all about little motivs. create a little melody for 2 measures then vary it slightly when using it the second time (for the next 2 measures), then maybe play the first melody again and then for the 4th time vary the melody again like you did on the 2nd run. you should get a nice little 8 measured melody.

as for harmony and chords i would suggest to pick one scale, e.g. c major, then structure all chords out of the scale. you will get:

C, dmin, emin, F, G, amin, bminb5 and C again.
then try to connect these chords and find a cool row of chords
then use the c major scale and create melodies.

i know it may sound pretty stupid by reading this, but it is really a good point to start. it is also simple and doesn't say a lot about orchestral harmonies but it think it is at least a little approach 


ps: if you done that there is also a cool approach to find out about the seven modes. just pick on chord, e.g. Cmaj and play the C major scale. you will hear the major mode which is ionian.

then play a dmin chord with d in bass root and play the C major scale above it while aiming with D as a root note, but still play C major. you will get the dorian mode.

then do the same with all other chords.

emin - phrygian

F - lydian (my fave )

G - mixolydian

a min - aeolian

b min b5 - locrian

you could also connect some feelings, impressions or colors to the modes. to explain it real simple:

ionian sounds happy
dorian sounds not really sad but hopeful
phrygian sounds a little spanish
lydian sounds epic and mighty
mixoldian sounds middle ages or western style
aeolian sounds sad
locrian sounds kinda exploring and little strange ..


hope that helps a little


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## Stephen Rees (Apr 17, 2006)

I think Waywyn's idea about working with motifs is spot on. That's where the Schoenberg book really shines. He starts by talking about composing in the same way. Motivic ideas, variation and repetition, questioning and answering phrases. Good stuff that is applicable to many different styles of Western music, including 'classical' and 'popular' music.


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## Crimson (Apr 17, 2006)

Thanks, Waywyn, for your tips. They sound like they're really helpful, I think I will try them out. I also ordered the Schoenberg book that Stephen suggested, can't wait to see what it's like.


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## Peter Alexander (Apr 17, 2006)

Here are a couple of suggestions which I hope you find useful. You might consider Applied Professional Harmony:
http://www.alexuniv.com/music/harmony/101/

For Schoenberg only, I suggest you start with Theory of Harmony. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0520049446/sr=8-1/qid=1145287682/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1698730-0076053?%5Fencoding=UTF8 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/052004 ... oding=UTF8)

Either of these two books get you composing music and building chord progressions right away. The basic methodology of the two is, "organized screwing around." I wrote the first one and studied out of the second one as an undergrad in private studies. Both are DOING books. You have to write and record your work. But when you do these exercises with strings, brass, woods, combinations thereof, your skills take a leontine leap.


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## Frederick Russ (Apr 17, 2006)

You can also mix modal writing with EIS voice leading to add an extra dimension to the mode equation. EIS lets you shift keys smoothly and effortlessly - coupled with modal approaches you can have a quite significant composing arsenal to assist writing. Exploring EIS further accentuates this as you combine approaches for some unique compositions - using what you know and adding the extra dimension - makes for some interesting works.


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## rJames (Apr 17, 2006)

Crimson @ Sun Apr 16 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Today I had a thought. I think that I finally understand some of the rules for composition or how musical pieces work in general. Of course, I might be completely wrong, so please tell me if that's the case
> 
> ...



I think you have hit on something that is spot on. But you don't quite realize the implications.

As everyone has said, don't try to sum up a universal theory for music composition in one paragraph.

But your idea is true, not by choosing a key for a piece, but by choosing a key (or tonality as I call it) for each moment.

I think when Choco says that the key changes a lot in film music (OK, I'm taking a leap here), he means that the tonality can change quickly from moment to moment.

I think I can safely say that in much film music (I certainly can't say all) you have accidentals occurring that change the "key" for a moment. whether it goes right back to the first key is another question.

Try another idea. Create a melody or motif in the high registers (violins). Create another melody in a lower (middle register) that sounds, in your minds eye, like a second thematic line that you might hear in a movie( cellos). Then play another melody with a bass note(contrabass). 

Try to make sure they sound good together by changing the notes that "rub" against each other. Don't even think about a "key"!

Generalization: really good music is not about choosing a key and staying within it...it is about really good melodies that weave together well to make a unfied cohesive song.

Once you have a great three lines that work together, you can go back and analyze what your vertical "moments" look like and you can add supporting parts. (By keeing within the tonality of the moment...moment by moment.


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## Scott Rogers (Apr 17, 2006)

..........


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## Crimson (Apr 17, 2006)

Thanks, everybody, for good information. Now I definitely have a better understanding of how music is made, and know what I should be studying.


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## gravehill (Apr 18, 2006)

Hey Crimson, nice to have more finns on board!

You might want to check out http://s9.invisionfree.com/MusicWeb/ (this forum) as well. It's still in its beginning but gets better all the time as is already a nice resource for all music theory stuff.

Lippu korkealle ja silleen...


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## Crimson (Apr 18, 2006)

Hi, gravehill

I thought I was the only finn on vi-control, but then again, I haven't been very active in these forums so I wouldn't know. Yes, it is nice to have kinsmen around 

The forum you suggested does sound promising. I'll try to keep it in mind.



> Lippu korkealle ja silleen...



Kiitos, samoin


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## gravehill (May 21, 2006)

I'm everywhere... :mrgreen:


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## fitch (May 21, 2006)

finn! you won the eurovision LOL go finland ! :D


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