# EAST WEST CLOUD LOSER, seeking to purchase first Orchestral Library



## RAMusic

Hi everyone, my name is Rick, I've been using East Wests Composer Cloud subscription service for ages, I thought their orchestral libraries were certainly good enough for my needs, yet, now its time to purchase my first orchestral library. I've been doing all sorts of research, when one spends enough time at it, you end up right where you started, reaching out, and asking people for their thoughts. Clearly, all orchestras have their own unique sound, I would think, I need not list them here. I'm well aware were talking in broad strokes here, articulations, mics, I'm up on all of it, my interests, are in your preferences, thats all, for a good solid first full orchestra. I'm currently using Logic Pro X. My first impressions, or libraries which I liked off the bat, were, Berlin Orchestra, Berlin Orchestral Tools, Vienna Sync Vol 1, possibly BBO. So, I'm in the under a thousand dollar category, unless, theres something right in that ballpark that makes sense. That being said, I do like Metropolis Ark 4, yet, thats a more specific type of library, I would think that wouldnt serve all of my needs. So grateful to be here. Any thoughts?


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## Laurin Lenschow

Hey Rick, welcome to the forum!  
Could you provide some details about the music you like to write? Also, what did you like and dislike about the East West libraries?


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## Jeremy Spencer

RAMusic said:


> I thought their orchestral libraries were certainly good enough for my needs, yet, now its time to purchase my first orchestral library


Welcome!

I’m also curious, what don’t you like about EW?


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## José Herring

RAMusic said:


> Hi everyone, my name is Rick, I've been using East Wests Composer Cloud subscription service for ages, I thought their orchestral libraries were certainly good enough for my needs, yet, now its time to purchase my first orchestral library. I've been doing all sorts of research, when one spends enough time at it, you end up right where you started, reaching out, and asking people for their thoughts. Clearly, all orchestras have their own unique sound, I would think, I need not list them here. I'm well aware were talking in broad strokes here, articulations, mics, I'm up on all of it, my interests, are in your preferences, thats all, for a good solid first full orchestra. I'm currently using Logic Pro X. My first impressions, or libraries which I liked off the bat, were, Berlin Orchestra, Berlin Orchestral Tools, Vienna Sync Vol 1, possibly BBO. So, I'm in the under a thousand dollar category, unless, theres something right in that ballpark that makes sense. That being said, I do like Metropolis Ark 4, yet, thats a more specific type of library, I would think that wouldnt serve all of my needs. So grateful to be here. Any thoughts?


Believe it or not unless you feel you want to branch out, Hollywood Orchestra Opus would be a killer first full library. You won't get much better for an all inclusive package under grand. 

BBCSO is another great choice. Not as fully featured as Hollywood Opus though. 

If you're more into ensemble type libraries, there are many. 

I think the best thing to do is decide on what type of sound you want then go from there.


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## RAMusic

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Hey Rick, welcome to the forum!
> Could you provide some details about the music you like to write? Also, what did you like and dislike about the East West libraries?





Jeremy Spencer said:


> Welcome!
> 
> I’m also curious, what don’t you like about EW?


Hi, I like the Orchestral libraries that come with the subscription, in fact, thats all I used. That being said, having a subscription based service after so many years, I feel as if its time to move on, and develop my own library/libraries, which i think might also help me develop as an orchestrator. I was kidding referring to the tittle of the thread, I'm just looking for one complete orchestra. I've thought of buying Hollywood Orchestra w/Opus, although the orchestrator is not my cup of tea so to speak. So, really no problem with EW, just looking to have my own library, and get away from a subscription service, its been almost 10 years. All good on there end, especuially the orchestral libraries. So, its more about a subscription abd building my own sound.


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## RAMusic

José Herring said:


> Believe it or not unless you feel you want to branch out, Hollywood Orchestra Opus would be a killer first full library. You won't get much better for an all inclusive package under grand.
> 
> BBCSO is another great choice. Not as fully featured as Hollywood Opus though.
> 
> If you're more into ensemble type libraries, there are many.
> 
> I think the best thing to do is decide on what type of sound you want then go from there.


I might just do that, I dont like the Orchestrator, I never used it, but the librasry itself was great, and i could buy it for around $800.00 with only the. basic mic positions, its certainly a viable possibility.


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## RAMusic

José Herring said:


> Believe it or not unless you feel you want to branch out, Hollywood Orchestra Opus would be a killer first full library. You won't get much better for an all inclusive package under grand.
> 
> BBCSO is another great choice. Not as fully featured as Hollywood Opus though.
> 
> If you're more into ensemble type libraries, there are many.
> 
> I think the best thing to do is decide on what type of sound you want then go from there.


Well, I have a good idea of the sound I'm looking for, and the Berlin Libraries, and Vienna, seem to be closer to it than thye rest. BBSO, Im a little hesitant about, cant pout my finger on it. Mind you Hollywood orchestra is great, its just the subscription piece i dont like, which, might lead me to purchasing the library outright, which is certainly possible.


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## Jett Hitt

I've not used the Hollywood series in Opus, but it was pretty respectable even in Play. (Not the woodwinds.) It was just a real pain to use because there were so many patches. $19 per month gets a whole lot of bang for your buck, though.

If I could go back in time, however, I would only buy Orchestral Tools libraries--and I don't mean Berlin Orchestra. I mean the main libraries.


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## RAMusic

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Hey Rick, welcome to the forum!
> Could you provide some details about the music you like to write? Also, what did you like and dislike about the East West libraries?


I'm a staff writer for a publishing company here is NYC, my work runs the gamut from country, to industrials, commercials, to pop songs. Yet, I'm looking to develop my orchestral skills, and although the library itself wont bring me there, it certainly can, at times provide a great deal of inspiration. When I heard Metropolis Ark 4 from Orchestral Tools, it blew my mind, in terms of inspiration, yet, as a stand alone library, it wouldnt cover the ground I need. I'll add it on to whichever way i go.


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## RAMusic

José Herring said:


> Believe it or not unless you feel you want to branch out, Hollywood Orchestra Opus would be a killer first full library. You won't get much better for an all inclusive package under grand.
> 
> BBCSO is another great choice. Not as fully featured as Hollywood Opus though.
> 
> If you're more into ensemble type libraries, there are many.
> 
> I think the best thing to do is decide on what type of sound you want then go from there.





Jett Hitt said:


> I've not used the Hollywood series in Opus, but it was pretty respectable even in Play. (Not the woodwinds.) It was just a real pain to use because there were so many patches. $19 per month gets a whole lot of bang for your buck, though.
> 
> If I could go back in time, however, I would only buy Orchestral Tools libraries--and I don't mean Berlin Orchestra. I mean the main libraries.


Agreed, the Berlin Orchestra would be my absolute first choice, and I probably should just go for it., yet its a Big Bang in terms of cost. As for Opus, i dont like it to much,I preferred Play, maybe iu was used to it, I never felt comfortable in Opus.


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## Jett Hitt

RAMusic said:


> Agreed, the Berlin Orchestra would be my absolute first choice, and I probably should just go for it., yet its a Big Bang in terms of cost. As for Opus, i dont like it to much,I preferred Play, maybe iu was used to it, I never felt comfortable in Opus.


Be careful. Don't mix up the Berlin Mains with Berlin Orchestra. The latter is a recent release done with Berklee. IMO there are better choices for what they charge for it. It was sort of OT's version of BBCSO with fewer options and a higher price tag.

Also, if you were really looking to buy the big Berlin libraries, you should wait until Black Friday.


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## José Herring

RAMusic said:


> I might just do that, I dont like the Orchestrator, I never used it, but the librasry itself was great, and i could buy it for around $800.00 with only the. basic mic positions, its certainly a viable possibility.


Not a fan of the orchestrator either. Berlin series would be great but it's pricey. Don't know much about ARK 4 but I fear it would be pretty limited designed for a specific purpose. But, it does sound great. 

Another good one for you would be the Audio Imperia offerings. If you plan on using your orchestrations in your pop and commerical work you'll want something that is flexible. HOOPUS, and Audio Imperia would give you flexibility as the room has less of a signature. Spitifire stuff like BBCSO are pretty symphonic sounding because the room is huge. Orchestral Tools Berlin series and Cinematic Studio Series kind of lie in between. Even though the rooms are big they room has less of a signature sound. I like the in between stuff myself but everybody has there own taste.


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## RAMusic

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Hey Rick, welcome to the forum!
> Could you provide some details about the music you like to write? Also, what did you like and dislike about the East West libraries?


Hi Lauren,
I hope Im responding in order, its hard to make out. Im a staff songwriter for a publishing company here in NYC, in terms of work, I do plenty of industrials , in house work, pop songs, country, and jingles, not really my thing, but it earns. I've always enjoyed writing orchestral pieces, and have had some nice results. I have no problem with East West per se, they have a great Orchestral library, although Im not that comfortable with Opus, and the Orchestartor is not my cup of tea. As ive shared, I might end up buying Hollywood Orchestra, Im just tired after ten years of a a subscription based service. I also feel like id like to build my own catalogue, so to speak of orchestral libraries.


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## RAMusic

RAMusic said:


> Hi, I like the Orchestral libraries that come with the subscription, in fact, thats all I used. That being said, having a subscription based service after so many years, I feel as if its time to move on, and develop my own library/libraries, which i think might also help me develop as an orchestrator. I was kidding referring to the tittle of the thread, I'm just looking for one complete orchestra. I've thought of buying Hollywood Orchestra w/Opus, although the orchestrator is not my cup of tea so to speak. So, really no problem with EW, just looking to have my own library, and get away from a subscription service, its been almost 10 years. All good on there end, especuially the orchestral libraries. So, its more about a subscription abd building my own sound.


In addition, while looking at other libraries, I was inspifred hearing a few libraries, clearly my library wont improve my skills per se as an orchestral composer, yet, I get inspired by tools at times, fore example, when i hear metropolis Ark 4, immediately I was all over the place with ideaas of how i would use that power, that sound. Im a strong believer the library doesnt. makle the orchestrator , the orchestrator makes the library. I guess I feel is a way that Ive want a new springboard, yet, I could see staying with Hollywood orchestra, purchasing it outright, it is that good


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## RAMusic

Jett Hitt said:


> Be careful. Don't mix up the Berlin Mains with Berlin Orchestra. The latter is a recent release done with Berklee. IMO there are better choices for what they charge for it. It was sort of OT's version of BBCSO with fewer options and a higher price tag.
> 
> Also, if you were really looking to buy the big Berlin libraries, you should wait until Black Friday.


Im aware of the Berklee connection, well aware. its a world apart.


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## RAMusic

Jett Hitt said:


> I've not used the Hollywood series in Opus, but it was pretty respectable even in Play. (Not the woodwinds.) It was just a real pain to use because there were so many patches. $19 per month gets a whole lot of bang for your buck, though.
> 
> If I could go back in time, however, I would only buy Orchestral Tools libraries--and I don't mean Berlin Orchestra. I mean the main libraries.


You mean the individual libraries, Im sure thats it. Great stuff. Opus, I never got the feel of, never liked it, as for the orchestrator, not my cup of tea, id rather do it myself, so to speak


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## Nigel Andreola

RAMusic said:


> In addition, while looking at other libraries, I was inspifred hearing a few libraries, clearly my library wont improve my skills per se as an orchestral composer, yet, I get inspired by tools at times, fore example, when i hear metropolis Ark 4, immediately I was all over the place with ideaas of how i would use that power, that sound. Im a strong believer the library doesnt. makle the orchestrator , the orchestrator makes the library. I guess I feel is a way that Ive want a new springboard, yet, I could see staying with Hollywood orchestra, purchasing it outright, it is that good


It looks to me as though you are simply growing tired of what you have and need some new toys to play with to stimulate your orchestral apatite. If that is the case, buying orchestral sections and specialized libraries from different developers may be exactly what you need. Continue to watch lots of walkthroughs and go with the library that you think sounds the best or inspires you the most. In my experience, when I love the sound of something, it does help me write. It sounds like it is mine. It is hard to explain. This is especially true with libraries that are less popular. You can mix and match and make a sound that is uniquely yours.


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## Nigel Andreola

If you like power, and are looking for suggestions, Aaron Venture's Infinite Brass is fantastic. I compared it to the demos of JXL Brass and it is equally as powerful while being much more versatile and great with soft passages.


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## glyster

HO OPUS was on sale for about $420 last two weeks. Value/$ is hard to beat. You could get it then stop paying for the sub. Then buy different sections from different vendors. Just to share what I heard, the following are highly recommended here:

Percussion: Cineperc
Woodwind: Berlin woodwind, VSL woodwind (sychron or sychron-ized)
Brass: Cinebrass, synchron brass
Strings: Cinematic studio strings, VSL synchron strings (pro, elite)

Disclaimer: I have HO OPUS, and some VSL libs. Can’t really add personal opinions on the others I listed.


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## aeliron

RAMusic said:


> Hi, I like the Orchestral libraries that come with the subscription, in fact, thats all I used. That being said, having a subscription based service after so many years, I feel as if its time to move on, and develop my own library/libraries, which i think might also help me develop as an orchestrator. I was kidding referring to the tittle of the thread, I'm just looking for one complete orchestra. I've thought of buying Hollywood Orchestra w/Opus, although the orchestrator is not my cup of tea so to speak. So, really no problem with EW, just looking to have my own library, and get away from a subscription service, its been almost 10 years. All good on there end, especuially the orchestral libraries. So, its more about a subscription abd building my own sound.


Don’t forget to check jrrshop with coupon code “group”


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## RAMusic

Nigel Andreola said:


> It looks to me as though you are simply growing tired of what you have and need some new toys to play with to stimulate your orchestral apatite. If that is the case, buying orchestral sections and specialized libraries from different developers may be exactly what you need. Continue to watch lots of walkthroughs and go with the library that you think sounds the best or inspires you the most. In my experience, when I love the sound of something, it does help me write. It sounds like it is mine. It is hard to explain. This is especially true with libraries that are less popular. You can mix and match and make a sound that is uniquely yours.


I know Hollywood backwards and forwards, and it’s great, yet, as you expressed, a time comes where, even thought I rarely express this, a tool can and will inspire, a creative jolt, which is unlike what we’ve spent our lives honing and developing. I’m not a big believer in the tool will make the artist, I support and express the opposite to friends who are always seeking something to elevate their work. Yet, in this case, I felt inspired by other libraries, and wished I’d developed my own personal library all these years, yet, it is what it is. Nows the time. I’m thinking of going with Berlin, possibly building off that. Vienna also seems pretty deep, rich and full. You hit it on the head though, sone of the less popular libraries offer a color I’m unable to find in the stable, so to speak.


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## titokane

Was in the same boat as you. Decided that subscription/rental life wasn’t for me anymore. Landed on Spitfire BBCSO Pro for the main library and have slowly been building up a collection of alternates + extras. If you’re into orchestration (rather than using pre-orchestrated ensemble patches) I think it’s a great value — especially on sale (I got it for $570 I think). BBCSO isn’t the broadest or deepest library out there, but it’s a solid all-rounder and should keep me taken care of in terms of the base orchestra in my template until the full Abbey Road Orchestra is released. And the mic selection makes it combine with other libraries incredibly easily.


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## RAMusic

I am interested in the full Abbey Road orchestra as well. I really like the sound of the room, it’s rather wet, but I can deal with that. BBSO has been up there and is still up there with the others. I’ll give it another look. Should I go with Berlin, it’ll cost four times what I had intended. BBSO , I think is 449, and each month Spitfire put another library on sale, knocking off I think 30 or 40%. I’ll have another look.


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## Cdnalsi

Same here, after fiddling with subscriptions I also decided it wasn't for me, so after a lot of researching I landed on Spitfire's BBC Symphony Orchestra as well.

I love its sound and it also ticks my performance requirements amazingly.

Now I'm just adding bits and pieces on top of it, currently eyeing Abbey Road Two: Iconic Strings for that 1st chair colour.


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## alcorey

Whichever solution you end up migrating to - remember.........SALES........ the only way to buy a library............never pay full price, you just may need to wait a bit. For example you mentioned Metropolis Ark 4......You could have bought all 5 of the Arks for $1,000 not too long ago 
Good luck to you, as there are more choices available than the time left to make one


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## Markrs

RAMusic said:


> I might just do that, I dont like the Orchestrator, I never used it, but the librasry itself was great, and i could buy it for around $800.00 with only the. basic mic positions, its certainly a viable possibility.


Wait a short while and you will be able to get Hollywood Orchestra Opus (with all mics) for less that $500 as it is regularly on sale and you get an extra discount if you buy from places like JRRshop.com it audiodeluxe.com


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## Vlzmusic

I think you woke up too early from your EW induced coma. Current offerings won't make a ton of difference for you now, or at least you should wait for a good sale, whether it's taking the classical route with BBC PRO, or cinematic with ARK bundle. Abbey Roads is not as complete at the moment. Berlin is great, but definitely wait for a sale.

Now, if you happen to own a good Ipad - how about taking the pen and paper route with Staffpad? That's where you can really get a sense of the whole orchestration stuff, and the sounds are great.


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## Jdiggity1

I'd advise to others in your position to get the Cinematic Studio series (Strings, Woodwinds, Brass) as your primary "bread and butter" libraries (under $1k), then supplement with others as you need them.
Those are the "desert island" libraries that'll cover 85% of what you need, are easy to use, and dependable.
For something more comprehensive, the OT Berlin series will provide a LOT more in terms of articulations and flexibility, but at a much (much much) higher cost and required amount of work/tweaking involved. The Berlin series (much like VSL) are what I'd recommend when A) Money isn't the deciding factor, and B) you're from a more traditional orchestral writing background. If you don't tick either of those boxes, then they don't score *quite* as highly, for somebody that is still getting a feel for the sample library landscape.

Libraries such as Spitfire Chamber Evolutions, Sunset Strings, Ben Osterhouse, etc are often cited as being good for "inspiration", much like the Met Arks, and... pretty much every other library in existence around sales periods.

With all that said.... from what I've read, I'd expect the upcoming (who knows when) Spitfire Abbey Road orchestra to be the next "most comprehensive and desirable" sampled orchestra. But again, won't be in the "under $1k" category.


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## José Herring

RAMusic said:


> I am interested in the full Abbey Road orchestra as well. I really like the sound of the room, it’s rather wet, but I can deal with that. BBSO has been up there and is still up there with the others. I’ll give it another look. Should I go with Berlin, it’ll cost four times what I had intended. BBSO , I think is 449, and each month Spitfire put another library on sale, knocking off I think 30 or 40%. I’ll have another look.


Abby Road One (AR1) is an investment into the future. As it stands right now it isn't at all complete and is quite limited even for an ensemble library. But what you do get, sounds absolutely gorgeous, there's no doubt about that.


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## carlc

RAMusic said:


> I might just do that, I dont like the Orchestrator, I never used it, but the librasry itself was great, and i could buy it for around $800.00 with only the. basic mic positions, its certainly a viable possibility.


I know others have mentioned JRRShop.com already, but specifically, the exact price for Hollywood Orchestra OPUS DIAMOND (which includes Orchestrator) was $423.99 over the past few months. The sale is over now, but I would expect it to return to that price range again this year. To see the lower prices, you can add the "GROUP" coupon in your cart via their normal website, or create an account so that you can log in to their "blowouts" website.

Having switched from Play to Opus, I do prefer Opus now that I've gotten used to it. It also seems to be more stable for me than Play was.


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## RAMusic

carlc said:


> I know others have mentioned JRRShop.com already, but specifically, the exact price for Hollywood Orchestra OPUS DIAMOND (which includes Orchestrator) was $423.99 over the past few months. The sale is over now, but I would expect it to return to that price range again this year. To see the lower prices, you can add the "GROUP" coupon in your cart via their normal website, or create an account so that you can log in to their "blowouts" website.
> 
> Having switched from Play to Opus, I do prefer Opus now that I've gotten used to it. It also seems to be more stable for me than Play was.


Hollywood Orchestra Opus for $423.99, thats incredible, thats close to half of what it is now. I imagine t I would get used to Opus if i gave it a chance, and i just might. I have an account with them, I'll have a look at what price comes up with the GROUP coupon, Thank you for that


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## carlc

RAMusic said:


> Hollywood Orchestra Opus for $423.99, thats incredible, thats close to half of what it is now. I imagine t I would get used to Opus if i gave it a chance, and i just might. I have an account with them, I'll have a look at what price comes up with the GROUP coupon, Thank you for that


I don't think the sale is currently active, but at that time the sale price for HO Opus Diamond was less than the sale price for HO Opus Gold. The other thing to note with JRRShop is they sometimes don't show you the final sale price until you add the item to your cart. You will often see additional discounts applied at that time.


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## aeliron

carlc said:


> I don't think the sale is currently active, but at that time the sale price for HO Opus Diamond was less than the sale price for HO Opus Gold. The other thing to note with JRRShop is they sometimes don't show you the final sale price until you add the item to your cart. You will often see additional discounts applied at that time.


yeah that price diff was confusing


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## RAMusic

carlc said:


> I don't think the sale is currently active, but at that time the sale price for HO Opus Diamond was less than the sale price for HO Opus Gold. The other thing to note with JRRShop is they sometimes don't show you the final sale price until you add the item to your cart. You will often see additional discounts applied at that time.


Oddly enough, I wrote to my contact at East West, and he assured me I qualified to get the full Hollywood orchestra for for $395.00, as an upgrade? I'll think it over.


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## RAMusic

RAMusic said:


> I know Hollywood backwards and forwards, and it’s great, yet, as you expressed, a time comes where, even thought I rarely express this, a tool can and will inspire, a creative jolt, which is unlike what we’ve spent our lives honing and developing. I’m not a big believer in the tool will make the artist, I support and express the opposite to friends who are always seeking something to elevate their work. Yet, in this case, I felt inspired by other libraries, and wished I’d developed my own personal library all these years, yet, it is what it is. Nows the time. I’m thinking of going with Berlin, possibly building off that. Vienna also seems pretty deep, rich and full. You hit it on the head though, sone of the less popular libraries offer a color I’m unable to find in the stable, so to speak.


I've just been contacted by East West, apparently I'm eligible to purchase the Hollywood Orchestra Opus Diamond edition for $395.00 as an upgrade. sounds pretty good, yet.... the inspiration I felt from Berlin, and Vienna, I dont know. As a writer, composer, creative person, I cant put a price tag on inspiration, what I took berlin and Vienna, I never got from EW. Understandably, at the end of the day, its about money, and how we prioritize our expenditures. For me, in terms of priorities, this comes first, no doubt about it.


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## RAMusic

Markrs said:


> Wait a short while and you will be able to get Hollywood Orchestra Opus (with all mics) for less that $500 as it is regularly on sale and you get an extra discount if you buy from places like JRRshop.com it audiodeluxe.com


I learned today that I have an option to upgrade, and get it for $400.00, thing is, I was so inspired by Berlin, and Vienna, can't buy that kind of inspiration, although my wallet might have some thoughts on it


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## Nigel Andreola

RAMusic said:


> I learned today that I have an option to upgrade, and get it for $400.00, thing is, I was so inspired by Berlin, and Vienna, can't buy that kind of inspiration, although my wallet might have some thoughts on it


Are you a student? Orchestral Tools offers 40% off for students. If you are not a student, it might be worth signing up for a cheap music related college class. ThinkSpace Education offers short courses starting at $49.


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## glyster

If you are eligible to upgrade, their discounted upgrade price is $249. Just wait for that. You can always add other libraries.


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## RAMusic

glyster said:


> If you are eligible to upgrade, their discounted upgrade price is $249. Just wait for that. You can always add other libraries.


That makes sense, it woulod be a grreat addition to the libraties I find so inspiring.


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## RAMusic

Nigel Andreola said:


> Are you a student? Orchestral Tools offers 40% off for students. If you are not a student, it might be worth signing up for a cheap music related college class. ThinkSpace Education offers short courses starting at $49.


Yoiu mean, with an online coarse, they would give me a 40% discount? , thats wild. I wrote to, maybe it was Vienna, and was told I needed to be either an in residence student, or teacher with much stronger accredation. I must've gotten it wrong, I'll have to re-look at that.


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## Nigel Andreola

RAMusic said:


> Yoiu mean, with an online coarse, they would give me a 40% discount? , thats wild. I wrote to, maybe it was Vienna, and was told I needed to be either an in residence student, or teacher with much stronger accredation. I must've gotten it wrong, I'll have to re-look at that.


I wrote VSL last year and I asked them the following:

"Would being enrolled in classes at Thinkspace Education qualify me for an EDU discount? They recommend that their students purchase your synchronized special editions in order to prepare for their orchestration class."

There answer was:

"To answer in short: Yes!" 

They than gave a link to upload proof of enrolment. 

I'm not sure about Orchestral Tools. I'm assume they'd accept it too.

I'm disabled so I get a 50% discount with Able Artist Foundation when buying from Orchestral Tools.


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## RAMusic

Nigel Andreola said:


> Are you a student? Orchestral Tools offers 40% off for students. If you are not a student, it might be worth signing up for a cheap music related college class. ThinkSpace Education offers short courses starting at $49.


I too received a rather lengthy registration, Im not sure if it was Vienna or Berlin, I took one look at it, and thought, I dont. meet this criteria. However, theree mioght be a way to proceed when I think about it. I'll have to dig deeper. Thank you for that, much appreciated.


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## Jdiggity1

Curiously, what do you find so inspiring about OT or VSL?
If you don't have either of them to play with yet, are you sure it's not simply effective marketing?


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## RAMusic

If i could put it into words, I'd sell it myself. I've been around too long to fall for that, I assure you.
If your not hearing it, your not hearing it, thats all. Maybe its just a personal preference, I can't put my finger on it. Some people like sushi, i dont.


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## RAMusic

RAMusic said:


> If i could put it into words, I'd sell it myself. I've been around too long to fall for that, I assure you.
> If your not hearing it, your not hearing it, thats all. Maybe its just a personal preference, I can't put my finger on it. Some people like sushi, i dont.


In thinking about it more, Ive been using East West for so long, so used to the sound of their instruments, their room, I guess its really refreshing to hear something which sounds completely different to me, fresh, I will say this, the higher end Berlin library is so rich lush, and full of depth, power and richness. I agree, clearly not having it in my hands limits me from fully knowing all the benefit, its like anything else one first approaches.


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## RAMusic

Jdiggity1 said:


> Curiously, what do you find so inspiring about OT or VSL?
> If you don't have either of them to play with yet, are you sure it's not simply effective marketing?


Have a look at the Berlin Flagship series, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it. We all have different tastes, preferences and such, that goes without saying.


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## Nigel Andreola

RAMusic said:


> If i could put it into words, I'd sell it myself. I've been around too long to fall for that, I assure you.
> If your not hearing it, your not hearing it, thats all. Maybe its just a personal preference, I can't put my finger on it. Some people like sushi, i dont.


VSL offers free 30 day trials on various products every now and than that you can register with a Steinburg or Vienna USB key. It might be worth waiting for one of those trials to see if you like their stuff. Their very heavy on keyswitching which gives you a lot of control, but does require a bit of work.


----------



## RAMusic

I have a Vienna key, I know what you mean aboiut keyswitching, what a pain, Im looking into a good fader based controller, I should put it out there and see if anyone has ideas on that. I will wait around, Im not going to jump, no rush, I do get inspired, and often feel liuke leaping, but those days are over.
I didnt know they offered trials, I should look int5o that, that would be so helpful ion tking that next step


----------



## Quantum Leap

If it was me and I wanted to try something different, I would go with Berlin for all around goodness. If you write grand slower stuff, Spitfire. If you are an epic guy then some of the ARK stuff plus Holkenberg brass. You’ll end up buying HOOPUS as well. It just won Vi of the year and we are adding to it. It’s still the best all around imo.


----------



## mybadmemory

Don’t forget to check out sale prices! BBCSO for example is under 250 at sale for Core and around 550 at sale for Pro. And it’s the same for the rest of the stuff. Most libraries go down to around 40-50% at least once or twice a year.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Jdiggity1 said:


> Curiously, what do you find so inspiring about OT or VSL?
> If you don't have either of them to play with yet, are you sure it's not simply effective marketing?


Sorry, I'll chime in on that, because there is a difference. Despite EW being a great recording within itself, it just cannot compete with Teldex, or the BBC studio and Abbey Road for that matter. Once you get that "recording stage" sound in your samples, it immediately elevates your final result.

It's not rocket science either, it's out of the box thing - fire up any of the current brass patches in Opus, to hear that sticky reverb they apply by default, versus the out of the box sound of Teldex,, and even in the Staffpad version. It just sounds lovely.

I won't include Vienna though, I think they just don't sound good, still, despite using the bigger hall.


----------



## Jdiggity1

RAMusic said:


> If i could put it into words, I'd sell it myself. I've been around too long to fall for that, I assure you.
> If your not hearing it, your not hearing it, thats all. Maybe its just a personal preference, I can't put my finger on it. Some people like sushi, i dont.


So in short: "The sound" 
That's all I was trying to get to.

Sometimes it's the depth in the sound that is inspiring, sometimes it's the way a legato plays under your fingers, sometimes it's the expression baked into a sample, sometimes it's the choice of articulations, and sometimes it's the writing in one of the demos. So, I was just curious what it was that excites you, as that'd help with giving suggestions.

If the library sounded great in isolation, but was a pain in the butt to program or use, would it still be the one you want?



RAMusic said:


> Have a look at the Berlin Flagship series, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it. We all have different tastes, preferences and such, that goes without saying.


I'm familiar with it, and touched on it in a previous post of mine. It's a fantastic set of libraries, and one I'd recommend for an advanced user who is not in the "under a thousand dollar category".


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## RAMusic

Oh,
Im so sorry, I missunderstood your question, and felt, I couldnt answer you properly, and kept trying, yes, the sound, I absolutely love the sound. ive been using East West for so long, and it certainly has its merits without question, yet when I heard the Berlin Series in particular, it seemed to be on anpother level in terms of richness, depth, warmth and fullness, i could go on. You brought up some important poimnts, for theres alot i dont know about the libraries, which I wish I could learn, or experiment with. I'm not going to rush, yet i felt so inspired hearing the sounds theyre getting. I'm glad to hear back, for i felt as if i didnt quite give you an answer I felt comfortable with, I'm glad to hear also you have some knowledge of the library. That being said, ive been doing orchestral work for awhiule now, Im a songwriter, i do industrials, jungles, whatever i can get, would i call myself advanced no, yet, my. hopes are, to grow with this series, should i go this way, and develop into an advanced user. Ive been working professionally writing music for close to thrity years, yet, fairly new to orchestration, and hope to move forward, and invest in a library whicvh will give me all that and more, which is what i sense the Berlin Series might do, which also, opens the door to going over a thousand dollars, for i also see it as an investment, one which will keep giving, in accordance with what i put into it.
So glad to hear back.
Rick


----------



## RAMusic

Vlzmusic said:


> Sorry, I'll chime in on that, because there is a difference. Despite EW being a great recording within itself, it just cannot compete with Teldex, or the BBC studio and Abbey Road for that matter. Once you get that "recording stage" sound in your samples, it immediately elevates your final result.
> 
> It's not rocket science either, it's out of the box thing - fire up any of the current brass patches in Opus, to hear that sticky reverb they apply by default, versus the out of the box sound of Teldex,, and even in the Staffpad version. It just sounds lovely.
> 
> I won't include Vienna though, I think they just don't sound good, still, despite using the bigger hall.


The Abbey Road sounds huge, and I really like the sound of it, yet the Teldex, to me that sounds even better. Vienna i dont know as well, yet what ive heard sounded good. I also like the Ark series, theres some power there which I'll add on, without a doubt at some point. But Im leaning toward the Berlin series as my main go to, for now.


----------



## RAMusic

Quantum Leap said:


> If it was me and I wanted to try something different, I would go with Berlin for all around goodness. If you write grand slower stuff, Spitfire. If you are an epic guy then some of the ARK stuff plus Holkenberg brass. You’ll end up buying HOOPUS as well. It just won Vi of the year and we are adding to it. It’s still the best all around imo.


I absolutely love the Ark sound, my only concern is I dont know it well enough, or klnow if it would have all I nedd fto be my go to library, which id like to find out. The power, force, is simply unbelievable, wrong word, outsatanding!


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## mybadmemory

Just a quick word of caution before you go all-in on something very expensive like Berlin. It's basically impossible to judge a library only by listening to demos of it's sound, without trying it out underneath your own hands. I think most people here have listened to products you think sound great, only to realise it really doesn't fit you at all the moment you start playing and using it yourself. Most people learn the hard way though purchasing several different libraries from several different developers (that all sound great) which ones work out for them and which ones do not.

I'm not saying Berlin isn't right for you, it might be perfect, just that I wouldn't buy the full set of it in one go, assuming it will feel similar to the EW libraries you're used to, cause you might be in for an expensive chock. Fortunately OT sells single instruments a la carte in their new player, so if I were you, I would buy a few select single patches first, just to get a feel for if you like the player, the playability, the workflow, etc, just as much as you like the sound, before getting the entire series.


----------



## RAMusic

mybadmemory said:


> Just a quick word of caution before you go all-in on something very expensive like Berlin. It's basically impossible to judge a library only by listening to demos of it's sound, without trying it out underneath your own hands. I think most people here have listened to products you think sound great, only to realise it really doesn't fit you at all the moment you start playing and using it yourself. Most people learn the hard way though purchasing several different libraries from several different developers (that all sound great) which ones work out for them and which ones do not.
> 
> I'm not saying Berlin isn't right for you, it might be perfect, just that I wouldn't buy the full set of it in one go, assuming it will feel similar to the EW libraries you're used to, cause you might be in for an expensive chock. Fortunately OT sells single instruments a la carte in their new player, so if I were you, I would buy a few select single patches first, just to get a feel for if you like the player, the playability, the workflow, etc, just as much as you like the sound, before getting the entire series.


I imagine thers alot to be said of that, Im not sure on how to proceed, it would be nice oif some of these higher end libraries offered trials. One thing i wont do is jump, those days are long gone. I think your idea of purchasing a few patches is a great idea, and makes more sense than anything. I'll do that, whichever way go, if other libraries afford me that opportunity. The sound is one thing, the unknown is the unknown, and with a sticker price like that, I'd rather spare myself the horror, of not "feeling it" for lack of a better way to put it
Thanks


----------



## doctoremmet

__





EastWest Valentine's Sale, now 50% off almost everything


EastWest Valentine's Sale, now 50% off almost everything: https://www.jrrshop.com/computer-software?dir=asc&limit=54&manufacturer=129&order=name&sale=1&type=2 EastWest Fab Four $299 $149.50 EastWest Ghostwriter $299 $149.50 EastWest Goliath $299 $149.50 EastWest Gypsy $299 $149.50...




vi-control.net


----------



## carlc

FWIW, the EastWest sale is back as of today. That didn't take long. To get the best price, log into the regular section of JRRShop.com (NOT blowouts) and use coupon code GROUP. The HO Opus Diamond library is $419.16. (This is lower than the advertised sale)


----------



## Markrs

Hollywood Orchestra Diamond Opus is still the best value complete Orchestra you can get. It is amazing value for under $420. It is also in my view still a top tier orchestral sample library.


----------



## doctoremmet

I rank it among the best of the best


----------



## from_theashes

RAMusic said:


> Oddly enough, I wrote to my contact at East West, and he assured me I qualified to get the full Hollywood orchestra for for $395.00, as an upgrade? I'll think it over.


I think this is a good deal! And HOOPUS is still a top tier library.
If you want something different and inspiring look for Spitfire-sales to grab Albion Solstice/Neo/Tundra or their other „Toolkits“ and synth-/-piano-based libraries.


----------



## RAMusic

from_theashes said:


> I think this is a good deal! And HOOPUS is still a top tier library.
> If you want something different and inspiring look for Spitfire-sales to grab Albion Solstice/Neo/Tundra or their other „Toolkits“ and synth-/-piano-based libraries.


Thats remarkable, Ive been using it since it came out, theres certainly a lot for your money there.


----------



## RAMusic

José Herring said:


> Not a fan of the orchestrator either. Berlin series would be great but it's pricey. Don't know much about ARK 4 but I fear it would be pretty limited designed for a specific purpose. But, it does sound great.
> 
> Another good one for you would be the Audio Imperia offerings. If you plan on using your orchestrations in your pop and commerical work you'll want something that is flexible. HOOPUS, and Audio Imperia would give you flexibility as the room has less of a signature. Spitifire stuff like BBCSO are pretty symphonic sounding because the room is huge. Orchestral Tools Berlin series and Cinematic Studio Series kind of lie in between. Even though the rooms are big they room has less of a signature sound. I like the in between stuff myself but everybody has there own taste.


Your absolutely right about metropolis Ark being limited, what I'll ultyimately do, is spend the extra money, get the Berlin Series, and perhaps buy one of the Ark orchestra libraries, not the series. It would be nice if you could do trials with these libraries.


----------



## RAMusic

Vlzmusic said:


> I think you woke up too early from your EW induced coma. Current offerings won't make a ton of difference for you now, or at least you should wait for a good sale, whether it's taking the classical route with BBC PRO, or cinematic with ARK bundle. Abbey Roads is not as complete at the moment. Berlin is great, but definitely wait for a sale.
> 
> Now, if you happen to own a good Ipad - how about taking the pen and paper route with Staffpad? That's where you can really get a sense of the whole orchestration stuff, and the sounds are great.


Im still in the east West coma, although somethings astir, I have an old iPad, but always looking for something new to play with, I'll have to look into Staffpad, as it is, when I need a piece of paper, its like trying to find my passport, where in the world is it? I like the name, thats enough to get me going


----------



## RAMusic

Quantum Leap said:


> If it was me and I wanted to try something different, I would go with Berlin for all around goodness. If you write grand slower stuff, Spitfire. If you are an epic guy then some of the ARK stuff plus Holkenberg brass. You’ll end up buying HOOPUS as well. It just won Vi of the year and we are adding to it. It’s still the best all around imo.


I know I'll end up with Berlin, this is just a dance i do before I move forward. Its part of the process, put it out there, ask everyone their thoughts, at the end of the day, I'll do that, and somewherew down the road, as you suggest, I''ll add some of the ARK stuff, and HOOPUS.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Quantum Leap said:


> I would go with Berlin for all around goodness.


I picked up Berlin Strings recently, absolutely love the tone. Just wish they would add Con Sordinos!


----------



## David Kudell

My first library after ditching composer cloud was Cinematic Studio Strings. It’s still my most used string library today. I’d highly recommend going with that option…and you can get their Brass, Winds, and Solo strings and still be pretty much within your budget (once you buy 1 of their libraries, you get a loyalty discount so the Brass for example is something like $279.)

When you’re ready, you can always step up to the Berlin series which as far as sound quality and number of articulations, is pretty much the best.


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## PaulieDC

RAMusic said:


> I know I'll end up with Berlin, this is just a dance i do before I move forward. Its part of the process, put it out there, ask everyone their thoughts, at the end of the day, I'll do that, and somewherew down the road, as you suggest, I''ll add some of the ARK stuff, and HOOPUS.


I would absolutely agree, Berlin Main is the way to go, plus they have the Special Bows 1 & 2 and First Chairs for the strings in a somewhat-hidden bundle for less money. And Symphonic Strings as well which i really like. 

The main reason I vote Berlin is because the Teldex scoring stage sounds great AND since you are used to the Sony Hollywood sound I believe you'll like Teldex. The room is so important. Not to mention berlin Brass is worth the price of admission. IMO it's the best brass in the mp and softer range.

You might get BOB (Berlin Orchestra produced with Berklee) for free once you buy the full Main orchestra, they were doing that for a while, that's how I got mine. Before anyone pans it, it has brass and woodwind instruments that are not in the Main libraries unless you buy the expansions. Plus you get a good amount of solo instruments. And it's all recorded in the same room.

Oh, once you buy Berlin Main, you do get a discount on Berlin Symphonic Strings once you register and install.

OK, Berlin sales pitch over!


----------



## RAMusic

David Kudell said:


> My first library after ditching composer cloud was Cinematic Studio Strings. It’s still my most used string library today. I’d highly recommend going with that option…and you can get their Brass, Winds, and Solo strings and still be pretty much within your budget (once you buy 1 of their libraries, you get a loyalty discount so the Brass for example is something like $279.)
> 
> When you’re ready, you can always step up to the Berlin series which as far as sound quality and number of articulations, is pretty much the best.





PaulieDC said:


> I would absolutely agree, Berlin Main is the way to go, plus they have the Special Bows 1 & 2 and First Chairs for the strings in a somewhat-hidden bundle for less money. And Symphonic Strings as well which i really like.
> 
> The main reason I vote Berlin is because the Teldex scoring stage sounds great AND since you are used to the Sony Hollywood sound I believe you'll like Teldex. The room is so important. Not to mention berlin Brass is worth the price of admission. IMO it's the best brass in the mp and softer range.
> 
> You might get BOB (Berlin Orchestra produced with Berklee) for free once you buy the full Main orchestra, they were doing that for a while, that's how I got mine. Before anyone pans it, it has brass and woodwind instruments that are not in the Main libraries unless you buy the expansions. Plus you get a good amount of solo instruments. And it's all recorded in the same room.
> 
> Oh, once you buy Berlin Main, you do get a discount on Berlin Symphonic Strings once you register and install.
> 
> OK, Berlin sales pitch over!


I've heard mediocre thoughts on BOB, initially I thought that might be a worthy look, yet, after all ive heard, as you suggest, it might be a decent add on, but certainly a real go to. Fact is, the more I look, the more complicated this gets. There are so many things to consider, at some point, I throw my hands up in the air and it's ("F it) there's no perfect move, its a give and take thing. In addition, I'd rather buy over, than under so to speak, invest more, and grow into it, thats one of the rerasons for going with the Berlin Series.


----------



## PaulieDC

RAMusic said:


> I've heard mediocre thoughts on BOB, initially I thought that might be a worthy look, yet, after all ive heard, as you suggest, it might be a decent add on, but certainly a real go to. Fact is, the more I look, the more complicated this gets. There are so many things to consider, at some point, I throw my hands up in the air and it's ("F it) there's no perfect move, its a give and take thing. In addition, I'd rather buy over, than under so to speak, invest more, and grow into it, thats one of the rerasons for going with the Berlin Series.


I do agree that BOB is not a go-to, it was intended as a library for orchestration students, and I can attest to that since I’m taking Orchestration 1 as I write this. But it does work as a good filler if you own main.


----------



## carlc

Please excuse the naivete of the questions to follow… 

1. Would Berlin Inspire 1 & 2 be a good place to start for those interested in the Teledex sound? It seems like more of an ensemble library, but maybe there is an upgrade path?

2. The discussion in this thread seems to position the Berlin series as the best in class. I’ve always thought of VSL as top with OT/Berlin being a close second (not having experience with either myself). Is that misinformed? I am just surprised to not see and VSL recommendations come up in this thread.


----------



## PaulieDC

carlc said:


> Please excuse the naivete of the questions to follow…
> 
> 1. Would Berlin Inspire 1 & 2 be a good place to start for those interested in the Teledex sound? It seems like more of an ensemble library, but maybe there is an upgrade path?
> 
> 2. The discussion in this thread seems to position the Berlin series as the best in class. I’ve always thought of VSL as top with OT/Berlin being a close second (not having experience with either myself). Is that misinformed? I am just surprised to not see and VSL recommendations come up in this thread.


VSL probably _is_ the grandaddy of sample libraries AFAIK. But I’ve heard time and time again that by the time you get all of the libraries you need plus the MIR packs for reverb for the dry samples, you are out _thousands_ of bucks. Funny, we get on OT’s case about price yet VSL blows them all away. For instance, their six-piano bundle (of which I own two) is €2,210 and that’s with a €530 discount, lol. But it‘s arguably the most detailed piano library out there, if you like the sound of the Synchron room.

Maybe we can say Berlin is the most reachable best-in-class library? 

BOI 1 & 2 are considered layout libraries, great for small footprint needs, but there’s not a straight upgrade path to Main that I know if.


----------



## RAMusic

carlc said:


> Please excuse the naivete of the questions to follow…
> 
> 1. Would Berlin Inspire 1 & 2 be a good place to start for those interested in the Teledex sound? It seems like more of an ensemble library, but maybe there is an upgrade path?
> 
> 2. The discussion in this thread seems to position the Berlin series as the best in class. I’ve always thought of VSL as top with OT/Berlin being a close second (not having experience with either myself). Is that misinformed? I am just surprised to not see and VSL recommendations come up in this thread.


IBerlin Inspire is in no way on the level of The Berlin series, it was make in conjunction with Berkless school of music. Its the same telefax stage, but thats where the similiarities end. There mig tbe an upgrade path from one to the other, not sure on that. Yet, berling really is considerably more well regarded than Vienna, Vienna had a few early productsa which made soke noise, but nothing like Berlin, tham again, there are so many factors to presrrin g libraries, it can be a difficult process. The way I see it, I might over spend a bit, but t aking in consideration my growth to come, I think its a smart move, consodering thats all i do. Id rather buy over my budget for the future, than possibly cut myself short. The telexed room is phenomenal, but, the two libraries from that a=stage arew worlds apart.


----------



## mybadmemory

RAMusic said:


> IBerlin Inspire is in no way on the level of The Berlin series, it was make in conjunction with Berkless school of music. Its the same telefax stage, but thats where the similiarities end. There mig tbe an upgrade path from one to the other, not sure on that. Yet, berling really is considerably more well regarded than Vienna, Vienna had a few early productsa which made soke noise, but nothing like Berlin, tham again, there are so many factors to presrrin g libraries, it can be a difficult process. The way I see it, I might over spend a bit, but t aking in consideration my growth to come, I think its a smart move, consodering thats all i do. Id rather buy over my budget for the future, than possibly cut myself short. The telexed room is phenomenal, but, the two libraries from that a=stage arew worlds apart.


I think you’re confusing BOI and BOB. BOI are two 400$ ensemble based libraries, and BOB is one 800$ Library of individual sections and soloists.


----------



## dunamisstudio

If you like VSL/Synchron: Synchronized Special Edition 1/1+ is a good starter compared to getting the whole BBO collection or Synchron collection. You could fill in with some BBO while they're on sale. (FEB) Then grab Synchron Brass, Winds, Strings (Pro or Elite) when they go on sale.

If you like Berlin/Sine: Berlin Mains Collection when it's on sale.

If you like Kontakt: Audio Imperia Nucleus or CS instruments.

Watch out for sales unless you just have to ditch CC now.


----------



## Justin L. Franks

Nigel Andreola said:


> VSL offers free 30 day trials on various products every now and than that you can register with a Steinburg or Vienna USB key. It might be worth waiting for one of those trials to see if you like their stuff. Their very heavy on keyswitching which gives you a lot of control, but does require a bit of work.


They do 14 day returns with no questions asked on all of their libraries. While I generally do not care for dongles, it does allow for things like this.


----------



## RAMusic

mybadmemory said:


> I think you’re confusing BOI and BOB. BOI are two 400$ ensemble based libraries, and BOB is one 800$ Library of individual sections and soloists.


Your right, I know Inspire consists of two libraries, and BOB one. I think both of them Arte noowhere near the Berlin Main Series, which is my real interest.


----------



## RAMusic

titokane said:


> Was in the same boat as you. Decided that subscription/rental life wasn’t for me anymore. Landed on Spitfire BBCSO Pro for the main library and have slowly been building up a collection of alternates + extras. If you’re into orchestration (rather than using pre-orchestrated ensemble patches) I think it’s a great value — especially on sale (I got it for $570 I think). BBCSO isn’t the broadest or deepest library out there, but it’s a solid all-rounder and should keep me taken care of in terms of the base orchestra in my template until the full Abbey Road Orchestra is released. And the mic selection makes it combine with other libraries incredibly easily.


I'm wondering how your feeling about BBCSO PRO, for, I'm thinking of going that way, than adding, like you, additional librartuies to work with. I like the slew of mic settings, it seems to be pretty full, yet if Im correct, is there percussion in BBSO PRO? I'm thi8nking it doesnt have percussion. Im curious if your still happyt with your choice, for, Im leaning that way, today.


----------



## RAMusic

Nigel Andreola said:


> I wrote VSL last year and I asked them the following:
> 
> "Would being enrolled in classes at Thinkspace Education qualify me for an EDU discount? They recommend that their students purchase your synchronized special editions in order to prepare for their orchestration class."
> 
> There answer was:
> 
> "To answer in short: Yes!"
> 
> They than gave a link to upload proof of enrolment.
> 
> I'm not sure about Orchestral Tools. I'm assume they'd accept it too.
> 
> I'm disabled so I get a 50% discount with Able Artist Foundation when buying from Orchestral Tools.


Nigel, like you, Im disabled, I signed up with AAF, sharing about AAF in this thread, will save me a thousand dollars, should I proceed in purchasing The Berlin Main Series, I can't thank you enough. I never would have known about it. In addition to all the other benefits AAF offers. 
Once again, thank you


----------



## cedricm

Didn't read all answers sorry. 

The more I'm using OPUS, the clearer it is to me that it's orders of magnitude better than Spitfire's player, SINE and most other players. 
I'd think twice before purchasing an orchestral library instead of Composer Cloud or EWHO OPUS, or I'd go for complementary ones, such as Albion Tundra.


----------



## szczaw

No other player comes with the Orchestrator for orchestrally challenged (such as myself).


----------



## titokane

RAMusic said:


> I'm wondering how your feeling about BBCSO PRO, for, I'm thinking of going that way, than adding, like you, additional librartuies to work with. I like the slew of mic settings, it seems to be pretty full, yet if Im correct, is there percussion in BBSO PRO? I'm thi8nking it doesnt have percussion. Im curious if your still happyt with your choice, for, Im leaning that way, today.


BBCSO Pro is great and has a full orchestral percussion set (including harp, drums, metals, chromatic mallets). It’s a great 90% orchestra. Won’t cover uncommon instruments or articulations or extreme dynamics but everything is good enough for most realistic orchestral situations. The last 10% gets covered by other libraries that probably cost way more than BBCSO. It’s a generalist library rather than a specialist library.


----------



## RAMusic

titokane said:


> BBCSO Pro is great and has a full orchestral percussion set (including harp, drums, metals, chromatic mallets). It’s a great 90% orchestra. Won’t cover uncommon instruments or articulations or extreme dynamics but everything is good enough for most realistic orchestral situations. The last 10% gets covered by other libraries that probably cost way more than BBCSO. It’s a generalist library rather than a specialist library.


That’s pretty much what I expect, I know, if I go with BBCSO PRO, I’ll add Metropolis Ark, either 1 or 4, for what I need right off the bat. That’s pretty much what I took away from the videos I’ve seen. Then again HOOPUS, is the same, it’s so…. Hollywood, a lot can be done with it, I’m so board with it, and that orchestrator is such a turn off. It’s either BBCSO PRO, or Berlin Main Series Collection, a costly ticket, yet, it really is quite wonderful. Thanks


----------



## RAMusic

cedricm said:


> Didn't read all answers sorry.
> 
> The more I'm using OPUS, the clearer it is to me that it's orders of magnitude better than Spitfire's player, SINE and most other players.
> I'd think twice before purchasing an orchestral library instead of Composer Cloud or EWHO OPUS, or I'd go for complementary ones, such as Albion Tundra.


The only other thought would be to get HOOPUS, and get Metropolis Ark 1, or 2, for the edgy stuff. Your right, I don’t like the sine player, and the Spitfire engine isn’t to promising either. The more I think about it, it makes sense to get the basics with HOOPUS, than add what I want on top for the money you can’t beat it. I will say this, that orchestrator is nauseating, and their adds are also nauseating, that Hollywood blockbuster nonsense, it’s such a turn off, almost enough to make me toss the whole thing away.


----------



## titokane

RAMusic said:


> That’s pretty much what I expect, I know, if I go with BBCSO PRO, I’ll add Metropolis Ark, either 1 or 4, for what I need right off the bat. That’s pretty much what I took away from the videos I’ve seen. Then again HOOPUS, is the same, it’s so…. Hollywood, a lot can be done with it, I’m so board with it, and that orchestrator is such a turn off. It’s either BBCSO PRO, or Berlin Main Series Collection, a costly ticket, yet, it really is quite wonderful. Thanks


BBCSO Pro occasionally gets down to $600, and cheaper still if you get the (free) discover version. Stellar value for a full orchestra, though it certainly can’t be all things for all people at that price.


----------



## szczaw

RAMusic said:


> The only other thought would be to get HOOPUS, and get Metropolis Ark 1, or 2, for the edgy stuff. Your right, I don’t like the sine player, and the Spitfire engine isn’t to promising either. The more I think about it, it makes sense to get the basics with HOOPUS, than add what I want on top for the money you can’t beat it. I will say this, that orchestrator is nauseating, and their adds are also nauseating, that Hollywood blockbuster nonsense, it’s such a turn off, almost enough to make me toss the whole thing away.


I don't know what kind of music you're into, but to my ears, BBC sounds like something my grandma would use. The Orchestrator you don't have to use nor even look at, it's a separate part of Opus.


----------



## Nigel Andreola

RAMusic said:


> Nigel, like you, Im disabled, I signed up with AAF, sharing about AAF in this thread, will save me a thousand dollars, should I proceed in purchasing The Berlin Main Series, I can't thank you enough. I never would have known about it. In addition to all the other benefits AAF offers.
> Once again, thank you


That is wonderful! I'm so happy to have helped you find them. Honestly, at first, I thought it was too good to be true. But they are totally legit and I have saved a lot of money with the codes their partners offer. Spitfire Audio lets you use your 50% off code on introductory prices, so that's something to watch for! You have to write their support with your AAF ID for them to apply the code for you in that situation.


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## RAMusic

Nigel Andreola said:


> That is wonderful! I'm so happy to have helped you find them. Honestly, at first, I thought it was too good to be true. But they are totally legit and I have saved a lot of money with the codes their partners offer. Spitfire Audio lets you use your 50% off code on introductory prices, so that's something to watch for! You have to write their support with your AAF ID for them to apply the code for you in that situation.


I've already signed up, and have access to those prices, and Berlin is one of them. So that really is huge. Now I'm seeking a Midi Controller , for my keyboard is a Privia 870, with no mod wheel, I'm all over the place with this, for Ive never not had a mod wheel, and I hatw writing in automation when it comes to velocity, something which is felt. if you have any ideas on this, its all new to me, I was just looking on AAF's site to see if they had any mauafacturers, I'll find it. But you sharing about AAF was Huge


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## RAMusic

szczaw said:


> No other player comes with the Orchestrator for orchestrally challenged (such as myself).


WEll, I get that, and I get its benefits, I've been learning how to do that, and will conntinue to be learning how to do that on my own, and I'll be continuing to learn how to do that for the rest of my life. Itys a short cut, that as enticing as it is, I'd like to learn how to do that on my own, but I get the value in it, big time.


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## Nigel Andreola

RAMusic said:


> I've already signed up, and have access to those prices, and Berlin is one of them. So that really is huge. Now I'm seeking a Midi Controller , for my keyboard is a Privia 870, with no mod wheel, I'm all over the place with this, for Ive never not had a mod wheel, and I hatw writing in automation when it comes to velocity, something which is felt. if you have any ideas on this, its all new to me, I was just looking on AAF's site to see if they had any mauafacturers, I'll find it. But you sharing about AAF was Huge


I have an old Yamaha p120. I really like the feel of that keyboard. I grew up with it. It doesn't have a mod wheel either. I've been using an expression peddle. Cubase can remap inputs, but, a pedal isn't going to work for pitch bend. I go in and redraw my Midi CC and automation with a Wacom tablet. I am not aware of any stand alone pitch bend and mod wheel controllers. I've been looking for one for years. This company makes a little programable joy stick that I'm thinking of trying. https://www.lab4music.it/enjoy.php?lang=EN


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## RAMusic

Nigel Andreola said:


> I have an old Yamaha p120. I really like the feel of that keyboard. I grew up with it. It doesn't have a mod wheel either. I've been using an expression peddle. Cubase can remap inputs, but, a pedal isn't going to work for pitch bend. I go in and redraw my Midi CC and automation with a Wacom tablet. I am not aware of any stand alone pitch bend and mod wheel controllers. I've been looking for one for years. This company makes a little programable joy stick that I'm thinking of trying. https://www.lab4music.it/enjoy.php?lang=EN


I just got rid of my Yamaha P-200, I gave it away, it was having problems. Its not so much pitch, for me, writing velocity with a pen in automation feels off. I like to ride that mod wje=heel, so i can feel ther sound and texture of the instrument change as its velocity increases, that and the vibrato, thats all. I used to use pitch bend when I was writing music that it fit into, those days are gone for now. I'll check out that site.


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## RAMusic

RAMusic said:


> I just got rid of my Yamaha P-200, I gave it away, it was having problems. Its not so much pitch, for me, writing velocity with a pen in automation feels off. I like to ride that mod wje=heel, so i can feel ther sound and texture of the instrument change as its velocity increases, that and the vibrato, thats all. I used to use pitch bend when I was writing music that it fit into, those days are gone for now. I'll check out that site.





RAMusic said:


> I just got rid of my Yamaha P-200, I gave it away, it was having problems. Its not so much pitch, for me, writing velocity with a pen in automation feels off. I like to ride that mod wje=heel, so i can feel ther sound and texture of the instrument change as its velocity increases, that and the vibrato, thats all. I used to use pitch bend when I was writing music that it fit into, those days are gone for now. I'll check out that site.


Thats interesting, I'll look into that, what a nice surprise. Great!


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## RAMusic

José Herring said:


> Believe it or not unless you feel you want to branch out, Hollywood Orchestra Opus would be a killer first full library. You won't get much better for an all inclusive package under grand.
> 
> BBCSO is another great choice. Not as fully featured as Hollywood Opus though.
> 
> If you're more into ensemble type libraries, there are many.
> 
> I think the best thing to do is decide on what type of sound you want then go from there.


After all is said and done, I'm going with HOOPUS, I'll add assorted libraries such as Metropolis Ark to start, and see. The only problem is, the rooms are so different, yet, I would think I could tweak out what I need to have them work together , or Ill so my best.


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## José Herring

RAMusic said:


> After all is said and done, I'm going with HOOPUS, I'll add assorted libraries such as Metropolis Ark to start, and see. The only problem is, the rooms are so different, yet, I would think I could tweak out what I need to have them work together , or Ill so my best.


You will just need a room type reverb to enhance the room in HO and make it a bit more like Teldex. It's not hard to do. What I do is setup a separate reverb to make my drier libraries sound like they are in a larger room, then send that signal a strings group. Then all my strings get sent to a larger reverb for glue. 

When you get it I'll help you out if you have any problems.


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## RAMusic

José Herring said:


> You will just need a room type reverb to enhance the room in HO and make it a bit more like Teldex. It's not hard to do. What I do is setup a separate reverb to make my drier libraries sound like they are in a larger room, then send that signal a strings group. Then all my strings get sent to a larger reverb for glue.
> 
> When you get it I'll help you out if you have any problems.


I’ve got quite a few, yet I’ll have to work with what I’ve got for now, until I get a feel for it. I’ve got Spaces 2, Waves H Verb? an outboard Lexicon, it’ll take a bit for me to get the feel of the two together. What I did do was buy an SSD external drive this time around, and I’m adding another 16 GB’s to bring me to 68 on my iMac, I’m looking forward to this new set up. I do need an external midi controller, I don’t like writing automation in, I think
I started a thread on that. Thanks for your help. If you have any thoughts on a good room verb, I’d be interested in that.


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## José Herring

RAMusic said:


> I’ve got quite a few, yet I’ll have to work with what I’ve got for now, until I get a feel for it. I’ve got Spaces 2, Waves H Verb? an outboard Lexicon, it’ll take a bit for me to get the feel of the two together. What I did do was buy an SSD external drive this time around, and I’m adding another 16 GB’s to bring me to 68 on my iMac, I’m looking forward to this new set up. I do need an external midi controller, I don’t like writing automation in, I think
> I started a thread on that. Thanks for your help. If you have any thoughts on a good room verb, I’d be interested in that.


I use Valhalla Room, Exponential Audio R2, R4 and Liquidsonics 7th Heaven. I demoed Cinematic Rooms and it is good. I also liked TC Electronics VSS4 a lot. That one was a bit too colored but it sounded great. Spaces 2 is good and can work but it has this weird cloudy sound that I find almost all IR's have which make them hard for me to use. I wish I could figure out how to get rid of that cloudiness. It would be great to use IR's for the "room" verb because it's a real room.


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## RAMusic

I've heard alot of good things about Valhalla Room, I think I might even have R4, if its part of one of my waves bundles. Quite honestly I've never liked spaces, or any of the Logic Reverbs that so many people praise. Maybe its me, I cant seem to get a good sound out of Space Designer, and especially for Orchestral music, with a few libraries each with their own room sound. I've decided to go with HOOPUS after all the research Iv e done, its only 395, I'll add additional libraries to get a more distinct sound, HOOPUS will work for the basics and then some. I'm gojung to check out Valhalla, ive been meaning to for awhile.
Thanks


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## rnb_2

RAMusic said:


> I've heard alot of good things about Valhalla Room, I think I might even have R4, if its part of one of my waves bundles. Quite honestly I've never liked spaces, or any of the Logic Reverbs that so many people praise. Maybe its me, I cant seem to get a good sound out of Space Designer, and especially for Orchestral music, with a few libraries each with their own room sound. I've decided to go with HOOPUS after all the research Iv e done, its only 395, I'll add additional libraries to get a more distinct sound, HOOPUS will work for the basics and then some. I'm gojung to check out Valhalla, ive been meaning to for awhile.
> Thanks


R4 is Exponential Audio, now owned by Izotope, and doesn't (and likely won't ever) work with Monterey or later.


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## RAMusic

Thank you for that, saving me a few minutes


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## José Herring

RAMusic said:


> I've heard alot of good things about Valhalla Room, I think I might even have R4, if its part of one of my waves bundles. Quite honestly I've never liked spaces, or any of the Logic Reverbs that so many people praise. Maybe its me, I cant seem to get a good sound out of Space Designer, and especially for Orchestral music, with a few libraries each with their own room sound. I've decided to go with HOOPUS after all the research Iv e done, its only 395, I'll add additional libraries to get a more distinct sound, HOOPUS will work for the basics and then some. I'm gojung to check out Valhalla, ive been meaning to for awhile.
> Thanks


Valhalla is the best bang for your buck in the history of VST. 

But 7th Heaven and Cinematic Rooms are leagues better in my opinion though way more expensive.

HOOPUS is a good all rounder but I like the idea of including more ensemble libraries with it because HOOPUS can use some more low end umph and also some decent woodwinds but for as much as the HOOPUS woodwinds get maligned they are actually pretty good imo. They have a really good tone to them and a member posted a cc tweak that can smooth out the crossfades.


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## RAMusic

AS a librarty to work off of, thats pretty much the way I see it. I like Metropolis Ark 1, 4
and some assorted stuff. I'd bveen a cloud membere for so long, I'm just getting started with my own library, so, Im starting from scratch with that. I happen to like Fabfilter's stuff, their reverb is quite good, I blancked on it for a sec, I'll be fine with that. Although it never hurts to look at Valhalla, always looking for something new to buy.


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