# Question regarding Logic Pro score editor



## Raindog (Jul 11, 2019)

Please apologise for a presumably silly question.
I´m mainly composing without notation in Logic Pro. But sometimes it would be easier to edit a track using a score editor as I´m somehow familiar with notation. The score editor in Logic Pro seems to edit the score appearence only without editing the midi notes though.
Is there a way to actually edit the midi notes by using editing the notes within the score editor or will I have to use some special notation software like Notion or Overture to do this?
Your help is highly appreciated
Best regards
Raindog


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jul 11, 2019)

If you change a note (from d to f, for example) in the score editor, it will be changed everywhere else, like the piano roll. Is that what you mean? The score editor uses the same midi data as the piano roll, event list etc


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## Raindog (Jul 11, 2019)

Thanks for your instant reply. Will it also work when I change note values from quarter to quarter punctated etc. or when I do phrasing like binding bows etc.? I´m not sure if this only affects the score picture instead of the midi note.
Thanks a lot for your help
Raindog


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jul 11, 2019)

Note values should work, although I'm usually doing things the other way - changing stuff in the piano roll to make the score look right. If you use the articulation manager, some articulations (pizz, trill etc) will show up on the score.


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## Heinigoldstein (Jul 11, 2019)

It´s pretty annoying to change note length, vel. and other values in the scores editor. Create a screen set with score editor and piano role, then you get the best of both worlds. If you have a enough screen space, add the main window and you´re fine for 90% of what you do in Logic.


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## Vik (Jul 11, 2019)

A few things to be aware of in Logic's score editor:




The parameters above only affect how notes are shown. Interpretation mode will try to show your notes you want to see them, but not necessarily in accurate way. No Overlap means that Logic will suppress the display of overlapping notes, but the overlaps will still be there. The same goes for Max. Dots. So if you want to see an as accurate version of your notes in the score editor as possible, you should turn off all these, including Quantize (which will quantise what is being displayed only, and not your actual MIDI notes). All this can be confusing at first, but IMO all these options are very useful.

Also – to see a more accurate display of your note lengths, you could enable the duration bars (you can also _edit_ the note lengths using these bars: they add a degree of piano roll functionality to the score editor).

Your score can look quite messy without using the 'make up' functions above, especially if it is recored in real time and not by using step input. Personally, I prefer to turn the duration bars of/off as needed (I have assigned them to D on the keyboard) and to have most of the parameters in the picture above on, and then switch between the piano roll and the score editor (using the keys P for piano roll and N for notation, no need to create screen sets actually) when needed.

But understanding how these parameters behave, and experimenting with having them on and off, removes some of the confusion re. what is actually being edited in the actual MIDI note vs. what is being changed only in terms how how things that is being _displayed_ in the score editor.

The green beam in the picture below is the so called 'duration bar'. Very useful.






You can also use these commands to change note lengths:

Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Nudge Value 
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Nudge Value 
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Tick
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Tick
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Division 
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Division 
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Beat
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Beat
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Bar
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Bar
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by SMPTE Frame
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by SMPTE Frame
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by SMPTE Bit
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by SMPTE Bit
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 1/2 SMPTE Frame
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 1/2 SMPTE Frame
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 5 SMPTE Frames
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 5 SMPTE Frames
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Sample
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Sample
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 1 ms
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 1 ms
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 10 ms 
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 10 ms 

And (a favourite of mine), Sustain inserted notes:





This allows you, among other things, to change your note lengths when you enter them in step input mode from a keyboard, even before you lift your finger to trigger a note off message (!). This means that if you are going to enter ideas without a lot of triplets and not many notes that are shorter than a 1/16 note, you could enter notes really fast by setting the default input value to 1/16-notes, here...







...and then just extend them with Sustain Inserted Notes when needed, which in this case means that they'll become 1/16 note longer each time you use that command.

This way, your note will first change from being a 1/16 note become (sustained by it's original length, which is 1/16 note), an 1/8 note, then a dotted 1/8 note, then a 1/4 note and so on. It's easier than it sounds like.

AFAIK this is the fastest step input method available among all DAWs, at least on this planet, mainly because it allows length editing on-the-fly.


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## Vik (Jul 11, 2019)

Heinigoldstein said:


> It´s pretty annoying to change note length, vel. and other values in the scores editor


I guess I have to disagree in that statement, with a few exceptions. Logic has a lot of key commands and other ways to edit note lengths which are useful in the score editor, like eg those below, using 1/16 notes as an example:

- Global Commands
Rewind one 1/16 Note 
Forward one 1/16 Note
Set Division Value to 1/16 Note 
Set Division Value to 1/16 Triplet (1/24) 
Set Nudge Value to 1/16 Note 
Set Nudge Value to 1/16 Triplet (1/24) 

- Main Window Tracks and Various Editors
Snap Mode: 1/16 Note 
Snap Mode: 1/16 Triplet (1/24)

- Score Editor
Part Box: 1/16 Note 

- Step Input Keyboard
1/16 Note 

...so I don't really know why those I miss most often are missing: something as essential as a dedicated set of key commands which forces a user defined _length_ upon a note. This action could, of course, also be doablee without key commands, eg. by selecting a note and clicking on the icon for, say, a dotted 1/18 note (with a modifier). But this isn't possible either.


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## Raindog (Jul 11, 2019)

Vik said:


> I guess I have to disagree in that statement, with a few exceptions. Logic has a lot of key commands and other ways to edit note lengths which are useful in the score editor, like eg those below, using 1/16 notes as an example:
> 
> - Global Commands
> Rewind one 1/16 Note
> ...



Thanks for your very helpful comments. I can´t say tht this is in any way intuitive. I recall that in my Cubase days creating and editing scores was easier. It seems to be basically an add-on for Logic and nothing where any passion was used during programming the score functions.
Best regards
Raindog


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## Ashermusic (Jul 11, 2019)

I wrote a book called “Scoring With Logic Pro “ that you might want to check out. It was with Logic Pro 9 but is still mostly relevant. I did also however write an inexpensive e-book called “Using Logic Pro X’s Updated Score Editor” that deals with changes from 9 to X.


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## JohnBMears (Jul 11, 2019)

https://www.macprovideo.com/course/logic-pro-x-109-core-training-the-score-editor

I've watched this numerous times (as well as having gone through Jay's great book back in LP9 Days). If you are a visual learner, these videos are invaluable and of course @Peter Schwartz is awesome!

As someone who would rather work in a score (used Sibelius for 6 years before I began doing DAW stuff with LP7) I have found Logic's Score Editor to be good. I am faster with Sibelius and wish I could connect Sibelius 6 score editor to Logic's Piano Roll editor....


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## Ashermusic (Jul 11, 2019)

JohnBMears said:


> https://www.macprovideo.com/course/logic-pro-x-109-core-training-the-score-editor
> 
> I've watched this numerous times (as well as having gone through Jay's great book back in LP9 Days). If you are a visual learner, these videos are invaluable and of course @Peter Schwartz is awesome!



Absolutely true. I am not a visual learner, but Peter knocked it out of the park.


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## Heinigoldstein (Jul 11, 2019)

Vik said:


> I guess I have to disagree in that statement, with a few exceptions. Logic has a lot of key commands and other ways to edit note lengths which are useful in the score editor, like eg those below, using 1/16 notes as an example:
> 
> - Global Commands
> Rewind one 1/16 Note
> ...


True, but to mathematical for me and far from beeing that easy and intuitive than just grabing a note in the piano role linked to the score and drag it to your desired length.


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## Vik (Jul 11, 2019)

Heinigoldstein said:


> True, but to mathematical for me and far from beeing that easy and intuitive than just grabing a note in the piano role linked to the score and drag it to your desired length.


Agree – many times, using the mouse is the most intuitive way to do things - but if you want to work really fast/on a lot of notes, using key commands is usually faster. You can of course do what you describe in Logic as well, for one or multiple notes. If you hold down Shift and Alt, they'll all snap to the same note length. And as mentioned: in Logic, you can use the duration bars in score for that as well - you don't even have to press P to get to the piano roll.

I haven’t used the Cubase score editor much, but there are certainly things in Sibelius I’d like to see in Logic. There's certainly room for improvement: most other music apps I'm aware of have better solutions for giving already recorded notes new, absolute lengths.


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## Vik (Jul 11, 2019)

Regarding Logics score editor as an add-on: it somehow existed before Logic, since the score editor in many ways is based around many of the same principles which Notator was based on, and also the was made by the same main programmer. But the score editor doesn’t seem to get the same attention it used to get. I guess that may be true for Cubase as well, since Steinberg now has Dorico.


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## Raindog (Jul 12, 2019)

Thanks again for all your helpful comments especially for the hint to the activation bar. Very useful, especially when combining it with key commands. I still have to find out how to get a readable piano score but that´s another topic.
Best regards
Raindog


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## Vik (Jul 12, 2019)

I guess you mean duration bar.


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## Raindog (Jul 12, 2019)

Sorry, I meant activating the duration bar....


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## Saxer (Jul 12, 2019)

The main difference between Logics notation and special notation apps like Sibelius/Finale/Dorico/Notion is: Logics notation is always the interpretation of midi data. It does it well, for my taste even better than the recording options in Sibelius/Dorico etc. But interpretation always depends on the style and the expectations of the user. How long is a quarter note? In swing jazz it's short, in classical music long when it's on a beat. So you often have to play or edit away from the music to correct the notation. This midi editing is easier done in the piano roll when it's about note length. Pitch editing is often easier in the notation editor. I do a lot of editing in the event list: nothing is more accurate. I use the score editor to select the notes and edit them in the event list most of the time.
And my main key commands to correct notation are:
- force legato
- overlap correction
- syncopation on/off
- enhamonic shift to #
- enharmonic shift to b
- slurs
- ^> . - articulations


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## Vik (Jul 12, 2019)

Agree, Saxer, these key commands are very useful. 
I also use these quite often:

Show/Hide Instrument Names
Toggle Duration Bar Display
Fix Displayed Note Positions
Fix Displayed Note Positions and Durations
Convert Sustain Pedal to Note Length

And these:
Transpose Region/Event +1 Semitone or Nudge Automation up 1 Step 
Transpose Region/Event -1 Semitone or Nudge Automation down 1 Step 
Transpose Region/Event +12 Semitones or Nudge Automation up 10 Steps 
Transpose Region/Event -12 Semitones or Nudge Automation down 10 Steps 


For those who aren't aware of this: The two 'fix' commands are useful when one wants the MIDI data to be converted into the same values as Logic currently is showing in the score editor

Finally, the commands to change MIDI channel for events are very useful for me as well, since polyphonic voice number (unfortunately) is the same as MIDI Channel:

Event Channel +1 
Event Channel -1 
Event Channel = 1 
Event Channel = 2 
Event Channel = 3 
...and so on.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 12, 2019)

Saxer said:


> And my main key commands to correct notation are:
> - force legato
> - overlap correction
> - syncopation on/off
> ...



Exactly mine, Saxer


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## Ashermusic (Jul 12, 2019)

Raindog said:


> I still have to find out how to get a readable piano score but that´s another topic.
> Best regards
> Raindog



That is where you have to master a polyphonic staff style.


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