# Classical mock-up



## giwro

Continuing my test renders of classical stuff - this is the 2nd movement of Roger-Ducasse’s Petite Suite, a short whimsical composition. Berlin libraries throughout.


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## TGV

Sounds pretty good.

Never heard of this composer, BTW. Quite interesting sound and harmony for 1897. Feels like foreshadowing the Groupe des Six.


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## wcreed51

Did you enter it by hand or import MIDI?


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## giwro

TGV said:


> Sounds pretty good.
> 
> Never heard of this composer, BTW. Quite interesting sound and harmony for 1897. Feels like foreshadowing the Groupe des Six.


Glad you liked it. Roger-Ducasse was quite the composer for someone most folks have never heard of... I know of him because he wrote a single organ work... I think it’s called “Pastorale”, and for such an innocuously named work, it turns out to be quite involved and virtuosic. I wondered if his other works might be worthy of investigation, and it turns out they are!

The main reason I picked this movement of this piece was because it was so short - in addition to testing audio output on StaffPad, I used it to practice my skills in Dorico...


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## giwro

wcreed51 said:


> Did you enter it by hand or import MIDI?



Neither - imported XML from Dorico (as well as the tempo track)


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## wcreed51

To work on my SP skills I'm inputting the second movement of Samuel Barber's Cello concerto. Incredibly lovey piece, but SLOW going getting into SP! I may not get past 20 measure, but will post at some point.


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## giwro

wcreed51 said:


> To work on my SP skills I'm inputting the second movement of Samuel Barber's Cello concerto. Incredibly lovey piece, but SLOW going getting into SP! I may not get past 20 measure, but will post at some point.


I’ll be interested to hear it.

The original reason for doing this little mockup was to further test BBCSO in Dorico - I was very pleased with the string mockup I did awhile back. Unfortunately, the winds, brass, and percussion really didn’t seem to work as well - I’m not sure if it was user error or what. So, I decided to do the export and see how it went with StaffPad...

At this point, StaffPad looks like it will be for me either a mobile sketching tool, or (more likely) a mock-up tool that I access mostly by XML/tempo map import. The sheer ease with which I can get a nice sound with minimal futzing makes it worth using, even if I’m bypassing the handwritten entry method.


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## Dave Connor

Love that piece and it sounds very good. Did you have to do a lot of tweaking in Dorico and that’s sort of what we’re hearing? You seem to indicate that you didn’t have to do much in SP so I’m wondering if we’re still hearing the result of a lot of work prior to importing into SP.

Is that score available? Don’t see it at imslp.


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## giwro

Dave Connor said:


> Love that piece and it sounds very good. Did you have to do a lot of tweaking in Dorico and that’s sort of what we’re hearing? You seem to indicate that you didn’t have to do much in SP so I’m wondering if we’re still hearing the result of a lot of work prior to importing into SP.
> 
> Is that score available? Don’t see it at imslp.



The only tweaking I did in Dorico was tempo... obviously I added slurs, dynamics, etc. but those are just score elements. Honestly, the tempo tweaks were minimal, too, but it meant that I didn’t have to do them in StaffPad. If I had to do it over, I’d maybe do some dynamics tweaks in StaffPad - especially the first entrance of the flute seems a bit soft to me.

The score is here:https://imslp.org/wiki/Petite_suite_(Roger-Ducasse,_Jean)

Glad you enjoyed the piece - I had fun doing it, and am amazed how well it sounds in StaffPad.


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## Dave Connor

giwro said:


> The only tweaking I did in Dorico was tempo... obviously I added slurs, dynamics, etc. but those are just score elements. Honestly, the tempo tweaks were minimal, too, but it meant that I didn’t have to do them in StaffPad. If I had to do it over, I’d maybe do some dynamics tweaks in StaffPad - especially the first entrance of the flute seems a bit soft to me.
> 
> The score is here:https://imslp.org/wiki/Petite_suite_(Roger-Ducasse,_Jean)
> 
> Glad you enjoyed the piece - I had fun doing it, and am amazed how well it sounds in StaffPad.


Thank you very much. I have thought about getting staff pad, but not conveniently being able to view the entire score at once (without a very large screen - which I have also considered) has sort of stopped me in my tracks. If I need to sketch I will just go to paper. I have an earlier iPad so not able to play around with it and decide either. I am impressed with the sound.

Do you think one could do {say} Broadway pit band arrangements from A to Z; create parts and all that in SP?


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## mikeh-375

^^^^I have StaffPad Dave, but without any of the fancy sample sets. It's a good way to sketch out ideas I find and the lure to use it more comprehensively is also evident once you get into it, but I do have my DAWs for that.
Get yourself a monster Surface Pro for screen real estate....  . I'd love to get one but with these days in retirement, I can't really justify its expense.....yet.


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## Dave Connor

mikeh-375 said:


> ^^^^I have StaffPad Dave, but without any of the fancy sample sets. It's a good way to sketch out ideas I find and the lure to use it more comprehensively is also evident once you get into it, but I do have my DAWs for that.
> Get yourself a monster Surface Pro for screen real estate....  . I'd love to get one but with these days in retirement, I can't really justify its expense.....yet.


I’ve come very close to springing for a Surface Pro Mike. Researched it quite a bit. Hoping they update the processors etc., and release a new version. I get filled with dread that if it turned out I don’t love it - I‘ve dropped some serious cash on something that I can’t really use for anything else. We’ll see. Thanks for the advice.


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## giwro

Dave Connor said:


> Thank you very much. I have thought about getting staff pad, but not conveniently being able to view the entire score at once (without a very large screen - which I have also considered) has sort of stopped me in my tracks. If I need to sketch I will just go to paper.
> 
> Do you think one could do {say} Broadway pit band arrangements from A to Z; create parts and all that in SP?



I suppose you could, if you got fast enough at it. For me, I’ve been using Finale since 1994, and I’m so much faster using that (and now Dorico, which in just a few short months I’m nearly always faster than in finale... which I find amazing). For now, I’ll stick to using it as a mock-up-maker (and, I love doing the screen captures as well for YouTube)


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## Dave Connor

Right, and in my case the same is true with Sibelius. 

That is amazing that you got up to speed on Dorico so fast which is encouraging to me since I’ve considered switching over as well. Thanks again.


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## giwro

Dave Connor said:


> Right, and in my case the same is true with Sibelius.
> 
> That is amazing that you got up to speed on Dorico so fast which is encouraging to me since I’ve considered switching over as well. Thanks again.


If you do switch to Dorico, what I found most helpful in getting up to speed was embracing Dorico's conventions rather than trying to make it behave like Finale... also, there are a ton of videos to help, a very active forum and Facebook group.


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## giwro

So, with the recent release of a BBCSO template for Dorico, I decided to try this same piece using those forces https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mD33Fd6aU37So-CiarlEA5z4tA_gi4jH/view?usp=drivesdk (HERE)

Some EQ, reverb added with Altiverb, a little judicious compression... I have to say the StaffPad version actually sounds a bit better to my ears. I suspect if I exported the midi and massaged it in the DAW, it would sound much better (the only edits I did in Dorico were to lower the velocity on the timpani shorts at the end)


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## Flux

Just got Staffpad and wanted to write some classical excerpts to practice writing (well one classical and one film score). Thought I would link them here in case anyone wanted some more opinions of the playback.


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## wcreed51

I'm going to post what I've done so far. This is the second movement of the Samuel Barber Cello Concerto. All Berlin except Tina on the Solo Cello. Even though the texture is thin, it's a long laborious task to enter from scratch! 

I tweaked the cello and oboe Expression layer, but that's about it.


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## giwro

wcreed51 said:


> I'm going to post what I've done so far. This is the second movement of the Samuel Barber Cello Concerto. All Berlin except Tina on the Solo Cello. Even though the texture is thin, it's a long laborious task to enter from scratch!
> 
> I tweaked the cello and oboe Expression layer, but that's about it.



Sounds really good, Bill!


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## wcreed51

Thanks Jonathan.


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## Elephant

giwro said:


> So, with the recent release of a BBCSO template for Dorico, I decided to try this same piece using those forces https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mD33Fd6aU37So-CiarlEA5z4tA_gi4jH/view?usp=drivesdk (HERE)
> 
> Some EQ, reverb added with Altiverb, a little judicious compression... I have to say the StaffPad version actually sounds a bit better to my ears. I suspect if I exported the midi and massaged it in the DAW, it would sound much better (the only edits I did in Dorico were to lower the velocity on the timpani shorts at the end)


Hi Jonathan - would really appreciate if you can clarify this comment _"I suspect if I exported the midi and massaged it in the DAW "_ - export the MIDI from where, from Dorico or Staffpad ? and then _" ... it would sound much better "_ - sound much better than what ? Do you mean that with the BBCSO template for Dorico and minimal tweaks ib Dorico, that the Staffpad version is slightly better, but that if you exported MIDI from Dorico, put it in the DAW (which one ?) and did some tweaks there with BBCSO loaded into the DAW, that it would not only sound better than it does coming straight out of Dorico, but would also sound much better than the Staffpad version ?! MTIA
E


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## Elephant

giwro said:


> So, with the recent release of a BBCSO template for Dorico, I decided to try this same piece using those forces https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mD33Fd6aU37So-CiarlEA5z4tA_gi4jH/view?usp=drivesdk (HERE)
> 
> Some EQ, reverb added with Altiverb, a little judicious compression... I have to say the StaffPad version actually sounds a bit better to my ears. I suspect if I exported the midi and massaged it in the DAW, it would sound much better (the only edits I did in Dorico were to lower the velocity on the timpani shorts at the end)


Hi Jonathan - would really appreciate if you can clarify this comment _"I suspect if I exported the midi and massaged it in the DAW "_ - export the MIDI from where, from Dorico or Staffpad ? and then _" ... it would sound much better "_ - sound much better than what ? Do you mean that with the BBCSO template for Dorico and minimal tweaks ib Dorico, that the Staffpad version is slightly better, but that if you exported MIDI from Dorico, put it in the DAW (which one ?) and did some tweaks there with BBCSO loaded into the DAW, that it would not only sound better than it does coming straight out of Dorico, but would also sound much better than the Staffpad version ?! MTIA
E


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## giwro

Elephant said:


> Hi Jonathan - would really appreciate if you can clarify this comment _"I suspect if I exported the midi and massaged it in the DAW "_ - export the MIDI from where, from Dorico or Staffpad ? and then _" ... it would sound much better "_ - sound much better than what ? Do you mean that with the BBCSO template for Dorico and minimal tweaks ib Dorico, that the Staffpad version is slightly better, but that if you exported MIDI from Dorico, put it in the DAW (which one ?) and did some tweaks there with BBCSO loaded into the DAW, that it would not only sound better than it does coming straight out of Dorico, but would also sound much better than the Staffpad version ?! MTIA
> E


Ah, my bad. That’s what happens when you hijack your own thread and mix topics!

To clarify, if I exported the MIDI from Dorico, and did some further work in a DAW (doesn’t really matter which one... there’s more control easily in most), it would sound better than the output from Dorico itself.

Whether or not that would then sound as good or better than output from StaffPad.... I don’t know. The one thing I can say for sure is that a decent (good, excellent, even) out put from StaffPad is far easier to obtain still.

Does that help?


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## Elephant

Indeed it does Jonathan. Thanks very much ! BTW I find these classical mockups great because certainly with the well known pieces, many of us know what they are actually supposed to sound like !


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