# VEPro 7 now available!



## Ben

Hi there,

VSL just announced VEPro 7: https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Software/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro
It includes the Epic Orchestra 2.0 with 73GB samples (old Epic Orchestra ported to Synchron Player + some of Synchron Instruments samples (SYN Strings I, SYN FX Strings I, SYN App. Strings, Syn Cham Strings, SYN Dim Brass II, SYN Power Drums, SYN Smart Spheres).

You can preorder for 145€ instead of 195€ or upgrade your existing license for 75€.


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## Ben

Be aware that this includes only the first VEP license (not three!). Every additional upgrade costs 45€ on top (regular 65€).


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## Jdiggity1

Wow. That didn't take long.


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## burp182

!!!!

Each license covered three nodes. Why on Earth would they charge for each node?
I'm hoping against hope that the policy might turn out to be different than this early report.


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## kitekrazy

I can see this having mixed reactions. Maybe this is why they are touting their epic orchestra more than VE Pro. It seems they way VSL is going it will distance them from new or casual users exploring anymore into their products.


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## jamwerks

Seems VEP7 is coming much closer on the heels of 6, than 6 was to 5. Strange they aren't talking much about new features.


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## Shad0wLandsUK

I can see the benefit for people who may only want two licenses, or even want to go ahead and have 4 or 5. I did wonder about this last time around, why they did not offer single licenses. So price-wise it could work out better for others 

Though it seems you are getting 2 licenses + EPIC for the same as 3 licenses before. But with all the Syncron content, that would make sense. I guess it remains to be seen how useful the Syncron content will be, or whether it will simply be a ruse to buy into the VSL sample library world...


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## emulator

I am more interested in getting more details about VEP7 as on Epic Orchestra.


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## Shad0wLandsUK

jamwerks said:


> Seems VEP7 is coming much closer on the heels of 6, than 6 was to 5. Strange they aren't talking much about new features.


Perhaps they will finally announce AU3 

Then after the time I have spent getting to love Cubase Pro 10, I will end up back at Logic's door


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## Ben

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I guess it remains to be seen how useful the Syncron content will be, or whether it will simply be a ruse to buy into the VSL sample library world...











"Shop now" and "Demo" xD
(The shop now button does not even work)


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## FriFlo

So, If I have VEpro 6 and want to upgrade all of the three licences that came with it, I have to pay 75+45+45=165€? There better be some crazy good new features, as this is quite steep for an upgrade ... I have no need for any bundled content and I already own all full Synchron products (except for the synchronized ones) and almost all VSL VIs. Let's see what VEpro 7 brings to the table, but this could be a no-deal for me, considering I now have to upgrade all licenses separately in the future.


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## FriFlo

There used to be a VSL promise that you only pay once for sample content. Recently, they tip-toed around that by "synchronizing" it, which kind of told me, they seem to be in need of some cash flow ... I was not happy to see that, but since I hardly use any VSL sounds these days, I let it go.
I sincerely hope, they are not ruining everything by trying to milk that cow a bit to hard ... used to be my favorite sample developer ...


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## Ben

I just installed it and this is my first impression: 
Content you'll get:
- Old content is just "synchronized" and sounds good.
- Syn. Strings: You get Short, Soft lyrical vib, Flautando. They sound good imo, full range over the keyboard. So can be usefull in some scenarios (layering, pad)
- Syn FX Strings: 4 articulations, usefull if you need that kind of stuff
- Syn App Strings: Only strong vib Legato and Slides up, only Vio I (there is no IR included for Vio II).
- Syn Chamber Strings: Only Vio I and only Legato, Halftone trill. No idea how to combine this with the rest of the collection...
- Syn Dim Brass: Only Wagner Tubas + Stacc, Portato, Sustain, Blare, Marcato. 4 players, individual programmable. Really great and a highlight of the collection.
- Syn Percussion: Snare Drum, Bass Drum, Tam-Tam
- Power Drums: Tama Star Light Set
- Smart Spheres: Tremolo Pad, High Anxiety, Pad Bass, Distorted Bass

You will get multiple microphone positions with the Synchron Libraries, which is great, but imo you should buy this for VEPro and not the bonus content. It's nice to have it if you don't have the libraries, but no must-have.


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## Michael Antrum

What I think is pretty telling here is there seems to be absolutely no mention of any details on VePro 7 whatsoever. Not even a hint of what the new features in 7 are and yet according to the announcement on the VSL forums they are 'testing and fine-tuning' the software.

Maybe i'm being a bit cautious after the long delays on the Synchron stuff, but is it unreasonable to expect even a few hints at what new features are going to be in v 7 when they are selling a pre-order ?

Smart move with Epic Orchestra 2.0 though, and it will get their samples and player into far more hands, and maybe more customers in their libraries. 

But it strikes me as very odd there are no details on VePro 7 whatsoever.....


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## ptram

I'm very curious to see what the "effects from Vienna Suite" will be. A bit of EQ and compression optimized for orchestral content, even if with limited programmability, would be more than useful.

Paolo


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## jamwerks

SF have the "Labs" to get the new SF Player on our HD's (for free). OT has the upcoming "Layers" to get us accustomed to their new player (for free). This seems like an attempt to get (force) the Synchron Player on 70,000 computers worldwide, but not for free!? 

What new features warrent calling this version 7? Sooner or later VEP users will be forced to upgrade because of compatibility issues....

So does this mean that all the Woodwinds have now been Synchronized?


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## SimonCharlesHanna

LOL.

What on Earth are they doing over there?


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## garyhiebner

How long is this introductory price for?


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## stonzthro

Seriously - no mention of AU3? It has been almost 2 years since Apple developed it. C'mon - the LAST thing I need is more orchestra samples when I can't really utilize the software to its fullest potential. MASSIVE fail if they opted to ignore us Logic users! Grrrr!


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## Shad0wLandsUK

FriFlo said:


> So, If I have VEpro 6 and want to upgrade all of the three licences that came with it, I have to pay 75+45+45=165€? There better be some crazy good new features, as this is quite steep for an upgrade ... I have no need for any bundled content and I already own all full Synchron products (except for the synchronized ones) and almost all VSL VIs. Let's see what VEpro 7 brings to the table, but this could be a no-deal for me, considering I now have to upgrade all licenses separately in the future.


Pretty sure it would not be that equation.

It says you get the first license with your purchase, you would be looking at 165+45+45.
Pretty sure that is right


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## SimonCharlesHanna

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Pretty sure it would not be that equation.
> 
> It says you get the first license with your purchase, you would be looking at 165+45+45.
> Pretty sure that is right


He's upgrading not buying outright


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## Pablocrespo

does anybody remembers the price of the upgrade from 5 to 6? having three computers I think the move to individual licenses is a very hard pill to swallow


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## Nick Batzdorf

ptram said:


> I'm very curious to see what the "effects from Vienna Suite" will be. A bit of EQ and compression optimized for orchestral content, even if with limited programmability



Vienna Suite has some really good effects. The original reverb was extremely good, and I believe they updated it.


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## Symfoniq

It’s getting pretty hard to be a satisfied VSL customer. Innovation seems to have given way to nickel-and-diming customers.

Between VE Pro 6 being released not that long ago, the machine licensing changes in VE Pro 7, rehashed “Synchronized” old libraries, and the corporate silence following the debacle (disaster, really) that was Synchron Strings, I’m definitely not going to be handing more money to the folks in Vienna anytime soon, if ever.


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## artomatic

Upgrading or not?
2nd license no longer free.
Not interested in Epic Orchestra. 
VEP 6 has been mostly stable...

So I'm thing that I won't upgrade unless VSL will come up with new, incredible features.
Speaking of, why preorder without mentioning any thing about the new features?!


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## jon wayne

Really nit-picky, but why would VSL post a new product demo that is distorted?


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## Shad0wLandsUK

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> He's upgrading not buying outright


Ahh, ok
Sorry I just read he put 75+45+45=165
Thought it said: 75+45+45+165

Had a language class a little over an hour ago when I had written this and a good ol' boi is asking about speccing a Dual-server and Master PC Environment for Pro Audio..

So switches switches switches... letters and grammar!

My apologies


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## kitekrazy

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Ahh, ok
> Sorry I just read he put *75+45+45=165*
> Thought it said: 75+45+45+165
> 
> Had a language class a little over an hour ago when I had written this and a good ol' boi is asking about speccing a Dual-server and Master PC Environment for Pro Audio..
> 
> So switches switches switches... letters and grammar!
> 
> My apologies



That's definitely more than the usual 3 license upgrade. I'm trying hard to keep liking VSL but this and their "loss protection" program tells me not to buy in to VSL anymore. For what it was originally used for does the single license really make sense?


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## rrichard63

kitekrazy said:


> For what it was originally used for does the single license really make sense?


If I understand this correctly, the single license (and the new pricing scheme) makes sense for studios that have one VEPro server. In other words, those with smaller systems will pay less than under the old scheme while those with larger systems will pay more.


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## kitekrazy

If you upgrade to a single license you will lose your VEP 6 licenses.


SimonCharlesHanna said:


> LOL.
> 
> What on Earth are they doing over there?



Making more enemies than friends.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

kitekrazy said:


> If you upgrade to a single license you will lose your VEP 6 licenses.


Are you sure?


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## jamwerks

We'll all be using the new players from OT & SF soon, and those may not work (for long) in VEP6, so for those of us who need VEP for our setups, will really be obligated to upgrade. If the new features aren't there in Vep7, VSL will have made lots of people unhappy.


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## Pablocrespo

It feels like they need funds, unless v7 is revolutionary. 

I don’t need the bundled libraries nor the FXs, just the software. 

I don’t think they will go back, and I think we should vote with our wallets


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## jononotbono

Here’s to hoping NKS will be incorporated into VEPro 7 so the Lightguide will work with Kontakt instruments hosted in VEPro on a networked Machine (and Local). Not sure that’s even possible but it would be rather great.

Also... will Cubase’s Asio Guard and VEPro 7 finally play nice together?


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## zolhof

Pablocrespo said:


> does anybody remembers the price of the upgrade from 5 to 6? having three computers I think the move to individual licenses is a very hard pill to swallow



Bought v5 in 2014 for $245 (Sweetwater) and upgraded to v6 in 2016 for $76.50 (JRRShop). Those were the best deals I could find back then, so there may be some minor price discrepancies compared to the current list price.

VEPro is by far my favorite piece of software and I couldn't do what I do without it. Not gonna pretend I'm not upgrading eventually but it would be nice if they included in the announcement a comprehensive list of features of the product they expect us to pre-order. They also need to be 100% clear if our current licenses will remain active after upgrading. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. 

All in all, it sounds like a great deal for newcomers, especially considering the newly integrated effects. Vienna Suite Pro is often overlooked but it's a solid set of tools and very resource friendly, so that's something to keep in mind if/when you are working with high track counts.

Also, fingers crossed for VST3 support and the ability to raise any plugin channel via MIDI.


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## Pablocrespo

I think the current licenses don´t work for v7. If you go from v6 to v7 and you have three computers using the server app you have to pay 165 Euros. Unless I am reading it wrong


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## Ben

You can buy the V7 and use the V6 as until release of V7.
"*Can I use VE Pro 6 with my VE Pro 7 license?*
Yes! You may download VE Pro 6 from MyVSL/Software Installers"
-> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Software/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro#!FAQ


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## Dewdman42

hmm. I must admit I'm a little turned off by their change in license policy, making it very expensive to upgrade if you are using more then one VEP server. I am not, but still I might later. When I bought VEP part of my consideration was that the purchase price included a few VEP servers. Suddenly now it will cost almost as much to upgrade all three server licenses as buying it outright. Typical for VSL though to do something like that. Aren't we used to that by now?

I do not need Epic Orch. I do not need Vienna Suite..though I think that should have been built into VEP a long time ago, so I think that's a great idea they are adding it. I just don't really need it as I have many other FX I can use.

So.. VEP7 will need to have some other new compelling and significant features for me to consider upgrading it, especially for the price they are charging for it. We shall see.


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## LinusW

I'm yet trying to get v6 working.


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## Manaberry

We need features list VSL.. What are you waiting for?


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## calebfaith

I wonder if it finally supports VST3 now that Steinberg has stopped supporting/granting developers licences for VST2?


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## Saxer

What I miss in VEPro6 is midi plugin stuff like adjusting CC curves for layered libraries and simple transpose buttons. I would also be great to view different instances in one window and copy/paste channels and plugin settings between instances without saving/loading to disc. Hope it will be in VEPro7.


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## shomynik

Full compatibility with Asio Guard would make me instant upgrade all 3 licenses. Separate midi port raise also. Otherwise, I really can't think of a feature making me shell out 165 for a utility app that I already have.


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## Guy Rowland

To me the big area to look for in VE Pro 7 is in advancing the automation and disabling functionality. Right now its possible to enable / disable instruments and automate them, but it is slow and clumsy to set up. They could add an auto-increment function to the automation set up page, and an ability to have ALL on a midi channel, not just one specific channel per command - those features would massively reduce set up time. They should add wake on midi, where any incoming midi note wakes up a disabled instrument - that alone might be worth the price of admission. Then add the ability to enable / disable whole instances, not just individual channels.

Really unimpressed with the Epic Orchestra 2.0 demos, I may well not even install the library given its vast size. The Synchronization of old stuff is just nuts.


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## jononotbono

Guy Rowland said:


> wake on midi



Yeah. Would love that.


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## resonate

calebfaith said:


> I wonder if it finally supports VST3 now that Steinberg has stopped supporting/granting developers licences for VST2?


VE PRO has supported VST3 since at least version 5.


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## bobulusbillman

I'm pretty sure you're gonna see AU3 support. look at the System Requirements page - one of the lines says '_Supported plugin formats tba _' Pretty sure that winky face is hinting at some nice new stuff


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## C-Wave

jononotbono said:


> Yeah. Would love that.





Guy Rowland said:


> They should add wake on midi, where any incoming midi note wakes up a disabled instrument - that alone might be worth the price of admission.


This


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## C-Wave

resonate said:


> VE PRO has supported VST3 since at least version 5.


Funny their Synchron player doesn't support VST2, but their Synchron Pianos does!!


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## S4410

C-Wave said:


> Funny their Synchron player doesn't support VST2, but their Synchron Pianos does!!


Synchron player with Smart Orchestra in Cubase (WIN10) works fine as a vst3 instrument


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## C-Wave

S4410 said:


> Synchron player with Smart Orchestra in Cubase (WIN10) works fine as a vst3 instrument


and ?


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## Rob Elliott

Hmmm. Purchased VEPRO 6 18 months and still have NOT installed (no real compelling reason and busy schedule) - BUT - if 'performance' were proven to be much better on 7 (across 4 machines) I'd do it yesterday. I don't need the samples.


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## Reid Rosefelt

It's possible that this Preorder--and maybe even VE Pro 7 altogether--is aimed more at attracting new users than the existing owners of Version 6. If they wanted to get people to upgrade, they would mention some features that would make that worthwhile. But they haven't done that yet. So far, they are pushing Epic Orchestra 2.0 and the Synchron Player.
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Ensemble_PRO/Product_Info#!Video_Demos

I suppose time will tell about this. It does say on the VSL site: Stay tuned for more information coming soon!

I have been considering getting VE Pro to run on my single computer, but until yesterday the best price was $285 (at Time+Space) for three licenses. The best price I've ever seen is $220. I didn't need it to the tune of $285, but it was in the category of "nice to have." It's probably smart to have my template built with VE Pro so that an addition of a slave computer would be painless.

Today I have the opportunity to get started with VE Pro for $159 (AudioDeluxe). Plus I'm sure I will find many useful things in Epic Orchestra 2.0, which they are selling for about $120 on its own. It's definitely a better deal for me (who has never spent a cent on VSL products) than for all of you loyal VSL customers.

From VSL's perspective, my purchase may lead me to buy another license and perhaps other VSL instruments. And like all of you, I will be then put in the position of buying expensive upgrades.


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## dgburns

Hey VSL, how about an upgrade option without the 'free' sample stuff ?


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## DaddyO

dgburns said:


> Hey VSL, how about an upgrade option without the 'free' sample stuff ?



The Epic Orchestra is a separate download, so you do in fact have that option.


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## Symfoniq

Based on my experience with Synchron Strings, I would recommend not pre-ordering anything from VSL. Wait for VE Pro 7 to be released, and try the demo.

Epic Orchestra 2.0 isn't a comprehensive collection, and being able to download it now isn't a compelling reason to pre-order VE Pro 7 except for the most sample-starved composer. And if you're a sample-starved composer, you probably don't need VE Pro in the first place.


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## Ben

DaddyO said:


> The Epic Orchestra is a separate download, so you do in fact have that option.


No, you don't. You don't have to install it, but if you buy VEPro it is included in your license.

I think we should see it as follows: It is bonus material for potential VSL instruments customers. Bonus as in "you don't pay for it" and "it's a gift on top of the product itself".
The development of such software like VEPro is really expensive; so I fully understand if they can't lower the price, even if they would exclude the Epic Orchestra. The making of Epic Orchestra 2.0 is not that complicated and expensive for VSL and it is not good enough to hurt their instruments business. It's just a marketing move.


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## DaddyO

Ben said:


> No, you don't. You don't have to install it, but if you buy VEPro it is included in your license.
> 
> I think we should see it as follows: It is bonus material for potential VSL instruments customers. Bonus as in "you don't pay for it" and "it's a gift on top of the product itself".
> The development of such software lile VEPro is really expensive; so I fully understand if they can't lower the price, even if they would exclude the Epic Orchestra. The making of Epic Orchestra 2.0 is not that complicated and expensive for VSL and it is not good enough to hurt their instruments business. It's just a marketing move.



Well, I completely agree with you. As I wrote in the thread on the VSL forum, the Epic Orchestra is a promotional giveaway, given in hopes that it helps create Synchron library customers.

So if it's "included free," you already are not paying for it.


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## dgburns

DaddyO said:


> Well, I completely agree with you. As I wrote in the thread on the VSL forum, the Epic Orchestra is a promotional giveaway, given in hopes that it helps create Synchron library customers.
> 
> So if it's "included free," you already are not paying for it.



Seems to me this upgrade is more expensive then the V5>V6 was (??). I was being a bit sarcastic in asking for a reduced price and no 'free' stuff included as I have little interest in the stuff they are tagging on.


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## DaddyO

I don't really remember what the 5 > 6 upgrade price was, but as a single license user 75 euros does seem a bit more...not sure. The kicker is for those who need multiple licenses. This is an extra expense both now and in the future, assuming this is a watershed policy change.

I went ahead and pre-ordered. I still have some trust that it will be worth it; hope I'm not disappointed. It is strange (to say the least) that they released the pre-sale before ANY significant information of what new features the upgrade contains. I did not participate in the Synchron rollout. I know a lot of people felt burned by the extreme length of time before the product was released and, for some, by what they felt like was a lack of quality in the new libraries. I hope I don't feel this way. I don't want my trust in VSL undermined.

I must say I did take significant advantage of the current 2+2 sale on VI single instruments, so I'm banking on VSL's future.


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## Reid Rosefelt

Symfoniq said:


> Based on my experience with Synchron Strings, I would recommend not pre-ordering anything from VSL. Wait for VE Pro 7 to be released, and try the demo.
> 
> Epic Orchestra 2.0 isn't a comprehensive collection, and being able to download it now isn't a compelling reason to pre-order VE Pro 7 except for the most sample-starved composer. And if you're a sample-starved composer, you probably don't need VE Pro in the first place.


For a potential new VE Pro purchaser like me, it is 50 euros less to pre-order. 
As it comes with a copy of VE Pro 6, I don't see the risk.


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## shomynik

Ben said:


> No, you don't. You don't have to install it, but if you buy VEPro it is included in your license.
> 
> I think we should see it as follows: It is bonus material for potential VSL instruments customers. Bonus as in "you don't pay for it" and "it's a gift on top of the product itself".
> The development of such software like VEPro is really expensive; so I fully understand if they can't lower the price, even if they would exclude the Epic Orchestra. The making of Epic Orchestra 2.0 is not that complicated and expensive for VSL and it is not good enough to hurt their instruments business. It's just a marketing move.


I don't think anybody here thinks that VEP alone doesn't worth that money. I mean, it easily replaces over 1k worth of hardware. But many ppl are already pissed by steinberg's prime focus on a broader market, and this kind of looks like that with added bonus for us with multi machine setups that we suddenly have to pay more than double the usual for an upgrade.


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## calebfaith

resonate said:


> VE PRO has supported VST3 since at least version 5.



I mean supports hosting VST3 inside it


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## Nick Batzdorf

LinusW said:


> I'm yet trying to get v6 working.



What issues are you having?


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## resonate

It's weird for them to tease us like that


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## wcreed51

Single licenses are 45 not 75


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## Ben

It's 65€. If you want to upgrade an additional VEP license it's 45€


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## robgb

This requires a dongle, right?


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## Shad0wLandsUK

I don't want to create false hope here...

But I decided to hav a ganders at the System requirements and found a little (sneaky) goodie:

*Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 - System Requirements*
*System Requirements*

PC Windows 7/8/10 (latest Update, 32/64-bit), Intel Core 2 Duo or AMD Athlon 64 X2
macOS 10.10 (latest update), Intel Core 2 Duo
2 GB RAM (4 GB recommended)
Working Gigabit connection between master and networked computer(s). Also works on a one-computer setup.
_ViennaKey_ (Vienna Symphonic Library USB protection device) or other USB _eLicenser_ (e.g., from Steinberg or Arturia)
_eLicenser Control Center_ software (get the latest version from www.eLicenser.net)
Other configurations may work but are not actively supported.

*Recommended*

PC Windows 7/8/10 (latest Update, 64-bit), Intel i5/i7/Xeon
macOS 10.12 (or higher), i5/i7/Xeon
Fast separate hard drive (7200 rpm or faster)
Supported plugin formats tba.  *<---* *NOTICE THIS... Clue perhaps?! *

MAS version requires Digital Performer 8 or higher
AAX version requires Pro Tools 10.3.5 or higher
88 key master keyboard
EDIT: For all you Logic users.... could it be DUN DUN DUN.. AU...


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## kitekrazy

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Are you sure?



Yes if you buy the upgrade. IF you upgraded from 5 to 6, you can't use your VEPro 5 license.


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## kitekrazy

TigerTheFrog said:


> For a potential new VE Pro purchaser like me, it is 50 euros less to pre-order.
> As it comes with a copy of VE Pro 6, I don't see the risk.



If you slap VE Pro 6 on 2 or 3 machines, once you put 7 on your dongle you are down to one machine. That's the risk. You can't use the previous versions anymore. If you elicenser dies then you have to pay 50% of all lcenses you want to use unless you bought their dongle protection program. 

There's a lot of risk now using VSL. I'm ready to turn in my fan club badge.


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## gsilbers

so the fx will now come onboard? those where expensive from what i remember. 

also. no AUv3?


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## resonate

maybe they have been testing it with new version of Logic Pro X, and are waiting for the release from Apple....


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## MartinH.

kitekrazy said:


> If you elicenser dies then you have to pay 50% of all lcenses you want to use unless you bought their dongle protection program.
> 
> There's a lot of risk now using VSL. I'm ready to turn in my fan club badge.



If it wasn't for their DRM I would be tempted to buy it for the "epic orchestra", but with stuff like this it's an easy pass for me.


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## DANIELE

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I don't want to create false hope here...
> 
> But I decided to hav a ganders at the System requirements and found a little (sneaky) goodie:
> 
> *Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 - System Requirements*
> *System Requirements*
> 
> PC Windows 7/8/10 (latest Update, 32/64-bit), Intel Core 2 Duo or AMD Athlon 64 X2
> macOS 10.10 (latest update), Intel Core 2 Duo
> 2 GB RAM (4 GB recommended)
> Working Gigabit connection between master and networked computer(s). Also works on a one-computer setup.
> _ViennaKey_ (Vienna Symphonic Library USB protection device) or other USB _eLicenser_ (e.g., from Steinberg or Arturia)
> _eLicenser Control Center_ software (get the latest version from www.eLicenser.net)
> Other configurations may work but are not actively supported.
> 
> *Recommended*
> 
> PC Windows 7/8/10 (latest Update, 64-bit), Intel i5/i7/Xeon
> macOS 10.12 (or higher), i5/i7/Xeon
> Fast separate hard drive (7200 rpm or faster)
> Supported plugin formats tba.  *<---* *NOTICE THIS... Clue perhaps?! *
> 
> MAS version requires Digital Performer 8 or higher
> AAX version requires Pro Tools 10.3.5 or higher
> 88 key master keyboard
> EDIT: For all you Logic users.... could it be DUN DUN DUN.. AU...




Wait, so if I buy VEP7 they send me also the ViennaKey to make it works, am I right?


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## C-Wave

No they won’t. You purchase it separately. Look for steinberg usb key at amazon.com or similar.


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## Living Fossil

I haven't read everything in this thread, but there is one question:

VE 6 came with 3 licenses.
If i upgrade to version 7 with 2 licenses, will i still be able to use the third license as version 6?


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## T-LeffoH

DANIELE said:


> Wait, so if I buy VEP7 they send me also the ViennaKey to make it works, am I right?



Without a doubt, most certainly not. Vienna Key (or Steinberg, Arturia USB) is required and a separate purchase.


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## DANIELE

C-Wave said:


> No they won’t. You purchase it separately. Look for steinberg usb key at amazon.com or similar.





T-LeffoH said:


> Without a doubt, most certainly not. Vienna Key (or Steinberg, Arturia USB) is required and a separate purchase.



Thanks, so I have to charge it over a possible VEP7 purchase. Before buying this I'd like to know the features, I cannot buy a black box like this. I don't know what are its features and when it will came out!


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## Ben

Living Fossil said:


> I haven't read everything in this thread, but there is one question:
> 
> VE 6 came with 3 licenses.
> If i upgrade to version 7 with 2 licenses, will i still be able to use the third license as version 6?


yes, but VEPro 6 and 7 are likely not compatible to each other. But still usefull if you dont need the special features of 7 in one instance. they should be able to run side by side I think.


----------



## Living Fossil

Ben said:


> yes, but VEPro 6 and 7 are likely not compatible to each other. But still usefull if you dont need the special features of 7 in one instance. they should be able to run side by side I think.



Thanks, so i'll wait until there will be substantial infos about the features in VEPro 7...


----------



## jonathanwright

resonate said:


> maybe they have been testing it with new version of Logic Pro X, and are waiting for the release from Apple....



It's funny you say that, as the same occurred to me as a new version of Logic wasn't released as usual this year.

It seems odd that they wouldn't list plugin formats unless there were something they don't want to release yet.

Maybe VEPro will be integrated in Logic in some way, such as a 'VEP Track', which simplifies the routing, enable/disable etc.

Of course I'm probably just living in fantasy land!


----------



## artmanjam

jamwerks said:


> Strange they aren't talking much about new features.



They are not talking at all about. It's the first time I see an announcement for a new product with not one single word about it. First argument is some 'free' renewed old bank most people don't care about.


----------



## Guy Rowland

artmanjam said:


> They are not talking at all about. It's the first time I see an announcement for a new product with not one single word about it. First argument is some 'free' renewed old bank most people don't care about.



I don't really understand why some people are so upset about this. While its unusual for VSL to offer a pre-order on a product with little info, its not as if they're holding a gun to our heads. We'll all know in good time what VEP 7 will be before the price goes up. In the meantime, if Epic Orchestra strongly appeals, you can get it early. If it doesn't appeal, wait and see. I'm not sure why any of this is evidence that VSL have signed their corporate souls over to Beelzebub.


----------



## Symfoniq

Guy Rowland said:


> I don't really understand why some people are so upset about this. While its unusual for VSL to offer a pre-order on a product with little info, its not as if they're holding a gun to our heads. We'll all know in good time what VEP 7 will be before the price goes up. In the meantime, if Epic Orchestra strongly appeals, you can get it early. If it doesn't appeal, wait and see. I'm not sure why any of this is evidence that VSL have signed their corporate souls over to Beelzebub.



I can only speak for myself, but VSL's recent tactics smack of cash-grabbing.

The only thing we know about VE Pro 7 is that it has a higher version number (okay, and some integrated FX). Why couldn't VSL wait to sell the product until they actually had some useful information to communicate?

I can only conclude that VSL needs the money _right now. _Other (re-)releases of "new" products and unfixed bad products (Synchron Strings) only reinforce my opinion that VSL is doing what's best for its profits right now, not what's best for its customers.


----------



## zolhof

Here's a quote from Paul @ the VSL forums:

"...we want to announce and highlight each feature properly in the next days. It will take some more time until we are ready for a release, but we are definitely getting close."

He also mentioned in an email that they are currently testing and fine-tuning the software, and that he's sure the decision to upgrade will be made easier, once we see the features introduced with VEPro 7.

Sounds very reasonable to me. I know it's a pretty crazy thing to consider in 2019, but maybe, just this one time, put the torches and pitchforks down and... wait?


----------



## Ashermusic

Symfoniq said:


> The only thing we know about VE Pro 7 is that it has a higher version number (okay, and some integrated FX.)



Here's what I know about VE Pro 7: I know that it is _likely_ to be a nice step forward because every other version has been _precisely_ that. And when Paul Kopf tells me it will be, he has earned my trust that he is correct.

And remember, I am _not_ a VSL fanboy. I have publicly stated many times that I am not been a fan of their libraries at all, but I am liking the Synchron stuff better.


----------



## Dewdman42

Vsl has definitely made it clear they will separate as many people as they can from their cash if they can get away with it. There are no competitors so they can in fact get away with it, but people will still complain and it may catch up to them someday.

Regarding logic, people need to realize that logic will need to be changed in order to support a multiple port au3 plugin from vep. In logic you currently have a way to specify midi device and midi channel for the track but there really isn’t a way that I’ve ever seen to specify that extra dimension of ports. They use the word “port” to describe what are really midi devices. I don’t see a way to funnel midi events stamped with both port and channel into a single plugin instance, which would be the need.

Then logic will need to be able to pass that through the environment and so on and so on. It’s not trivial. I do not personally think that has been added to vep7 but I would love to be surprised.


----------



## Symfoniq

Ashermusic said:


> Here's what I know about VE Pro 7: I know that it is _likely_ to be a nice step forward because every other version has been _precisely_ that. And when Paul Kopf tells me it will be, he has earned my trust that he is correct.
> 
> And remember, I am _not_ a VSL fanboy. I have publicly stated many times that I am not been a fan of their libraries at all, but I am liking the Synchron stuff better.



And if _likely_ becomes _actually,_ that will be great. But there's no reason to pre-order a product for which virtually zero new features have been announced.

And I say this as someone who has spent five figures on VSL libraries.


----------



## benatural

Folks, you don't HAVE to preorder anything if you don't want to. 

I'm looking forward to VEP 7!


----------



## JohnG

Guy Rowland said:


> I don't really understand why some people are so upset about this. While its unusual for VSL to offer a pre-order on a product with little info, its not as if they're holding a gun to our heads. We'll all know in good time what VEP 7 will be before the price goes up. In the meantime, if Epic Orchestra strongly appeals, you can get it early. If it doesn't appeal, wait and see. I'm not sure why any of this is evidence that VSL have signed their corporate souls over to Beelzebub.



Have to agree with Guy on this one. Their software has overdelivered for me in the past. I guess we'll all see what happens here. 

I don't love all Vienna's policies, but then I don't love everything the other developers do either. Besides, how many of them has produced a product as amazingly free of errors as VE Pro has (mostly) been?

I say, innocent until proven guilty.


----------



## rrichard63

benatural said:


> ... you don't HAVE to preorder anything if you don't want to.


Purely as a matter of logic, that's true. But many of us don't have an extra 50 euros to throw away by skipping the pre-order price. I have the same complaint about IK Multimedia. They habitually withhold product details while the pre-order price is in effect. You literally don't know what you are pre-ordering.


----------



## Dewdman42

I didn't get the impression that the upgrade price is a pre-order price. Its not showing that way to me when I look at their site logged in. I think the pre-order price is for new users, upgrade price will be the same now or later. There is no reason to upgrade now unless you are interested in EpicOrch2.

Let's see what they announce for new features.. if they will bring substantial workflow improvements I will gladly upgrade, though annoyed about the license reduction.


----------



## Guy Rowland

rrichard63 said:


> Purely as a matter of logic, that's true. But many of us don't have an extra 50 euros to throw away by skipping the pre-order price. I have the same complaint about IK Multimedia. They habitually withhold product details while the pre-order price is in effect. You literally don't know what you are pre-ordering.



Amazing.

I don't know how often people have to say this, so I'll try a really big red font to see if it helps.

*DETAILS ON VE PRO 7 WILL BE ANNOUNCED BEFORE THE END OF THE PRE-ORDER PERIOD
*
Bold too. Sadly it's not 1998, so I can't make it flash. Sorry.


----------



## rrichard63

Dewdman42 said:


> ... I think the pre-order price is for new users, upgrade price will be the same now or later. ...


That's my understanding as well. I don't currently have VEPro 6 or earlier, but have been looking at it for a while now.


----------



## rrichard63

Guy Rowland said:


> Amazing.
> 
> I don't know how often people have to say this, so I'll try a really big red font to see if it helps.
> 
> *DETAILS ON VE PRO 7 WILL BE ANNOUNCED BEFORE THE END OF THE PRE-ORDER PERIOD
> *
> Bold too. Sadly it's not 1998, so I can't make it flash. Sorry.


According to Google:

No results found for *site:https://www.vsl.co.at "details on vepro 7"*​and

No results found for *site:https://www.vsl.co.at "details on ve pro 7"*​
Also, it's not in the email I received from VSL. Where did you find this statement? Thanks in advance for directly me to the right place.


----------



## Guy Rowland

The original launch email says "stay tuned, more information coming soon". Not "more info coming after launch". Paul has expanded on this on the VSL forum - https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t50941-SOON--VE-Pro-7----NOW--Epic-Orchestra-2-0#post280731 that this will be in the coming days.

There is a 0% chance that the pre-order period will end before there is any info on VE Pro 7.


----------



## Dewdman42

For the record if you are not a VEP customer yet, I think this is a pretty great deal to take advantage of, If I weren't already using it, I would be all over it. The entry point is much less now then it was in the past, with the ability to just get a single license. And FX will be included, something I think they should have done a long time ago. And if you want it, EpicOrch2 is interesting...and its on sale at the pre-order price. So frankly, if it were me and I didn't already have it, I would buy it right now at that pre-order price even if it didn't do anything new beyond what VEP6 does. Its a good price, great product. Lower entry price then ever before.

The upgrade price, however, is a different story, its higher priced then ever...and in that case most of us have no need or put much value on neither EpicOrch nor the Vienna Suite plugins..we have those bases covered already a long time ago...so...for upgraders...we need to see what is new to justify this rather expensive upgrade price, especially if we had any plans to use at least one remote VEP server...

I think if you are worried about the pre-order information in order to buy it as a new user, you're worrying too much, just get it. Upgraders aren't being offered a pre-order price, so makes sense to wait and see.


----------



## rrichard63

Dewdman42 said:


> I think if you are worried about the pre-order information in order to buy it as a new user, you're worrying too much,


That's a valid point, especially in view of the fact that I would only need one license for my setup. Thank you. As I hinted earlier, I get distracted by similar experiences with other developers.


----------



## Yury Tikhomirov

I am just thinking that they could just add one simple feature - "arranger window" and call it a...daw.


----------



## Lee Blaske

I just don't know about this. As loading times are getting faster, I'm using VEP less and less. I've got two 12 core trash cans, and I rarely turn on the second one. Templates have their place, but they can get you into a rut. And, it's pretty easy to just set up a big template in Logic Pro.

I'm thinking when the new Mac Pro is released this year, I'll go down to one, single, powerful machine, and maybe not use VEP anymore. If the host app is fast and powerful, VEP is a time consuming extra step.

VEP was really useful back when computers and storage devices were slow, and load times took forever. But, it's becoming less vital all the time. Kind of like getting a blurb about the latest version of Toast when you hardly ever touch an optical drive anymore.


----------



## C-Wave

Paid $71 at Best Service for an upgrade. Not a bad deal really.


----------



## janila

VEP has been the greatest thing ever, functional and cheap even if it’s the only solution for what it does. Now it feels that there has been a change in the company, they seem to be more interested about money than the actual product. Who releases a product they have absolutely nothing to say about? Why not announce it next week, month or year when it’s ready? Why are they only mentioning old stuff they are throwing in? Yes, money. The Suite plugins are great but they are a decade old and who wants to mix in VEP or doesn’t have plugins and a workflow already? Who needs a random set of promo samples? Why shouldn’t people be worried when the developer of such an important tool is behaving weird?


----------



## ceemusic

C-Wave said:


> Paid $71 at Best Service for an upgrade. Not a bad deal really.


That's for the additional license, not the upgrade correct? Or with points?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Guy Rowland said:


> Amazing.
> 
> I don't know how often people have to say this, so I'll try a really big red font to see if it helps.
> 
> *DETAILS ON VE PRO 7 WILL BE ANNOUNCED BEFORE THE END OF THE PRE-ORDER PERIOD
> *
> Bold too. Sadly it's not 1998, so I can't make it flash. Sorry.



The issue which I think is why so many of us are a bit annoyed is that there's an abundance of information about Epic Orchestra and they are pushing it so hard that it's a very suspicious tactic. In the meantime they have *nothing to say *regarding VEP7 other than it's existence; That's absolutely ridiculous.

No one cares about Epic Orchestra - that's not why we buy VEP so why the hell are we talking about epic orchestra.

I wouldn't be surprised if the upgrade is very minor hence the FLASHY OMG EPIC ORCHESTRA U NEED THIS NOW marketing. I hope I am wrong.


----------



## kitekrazy

Still no answer on what happens to your V6 licenses. eLicenser shows VEpro 5 and 6 but could you actually install VEP 5 again on some other machines and slap you dongle on it? The people involved don't seem to answer the big question.


----------



## Audio Birdi

ceemusic said:


> That's for the additional license, not the upgrade correct? Or with points?


Best Service allow people with an existing VSL account to get a further discount which is cool!  This is the price for the upgrade licence with the additional discount.


----------



## EgM

As a composer who's a semi-hobbyist, this "upgrade" is a kick in the nuts!

I currently use 2 of 3 licenses and I have to pay 75E and 45E x 3 (*edit, sorry I meant x 2) for this upgrade if I wanna keep my 3 licenses up to date. Unless VEP7 brings features that are out of this world, this is a total lack of loyalty to existing users. VEP6 upgrade cost like 75E for all 3.

Also, as a user of over 2K$ of their libraries, their Epic Orchestra 2 is not something I want nor need. I do not care for all their Synchron or Synchron'ized stuff.


----------



## ceemusic

Audio Birdi said:


> Best Service allow people with an existing VSL account to get a further discount which is cool!  This is the price for the upgrade licence with the additional discount.


thanks, I might use my points for the upgrade too.


----------



## C-Wave

T


ceemusic said:


> That's for the additional license, not the upgrade correct? Or with points?


That’s for the upgrade from 6 to 7. When i placed the order in the cart Best Service asked me to enter my VSL account email and gave me extra $10 discount based on my previous VSL products I already have. Plus i already had a couple dollars in bonus points.. First purchse for VSL from Best Service.


----------



## ceemusic

thanks C-Wave, that's a decent deal.


----------



## storyteller

janila said:


> VEP has been the greatest thing ever, functional and cheap even if it’s the only solution for what it does. Now it feels that there has been a change in the company, they seem to interested more about money than the actual product. Who releases a product they have absolutely nothing to say about? Why not announce it next week, month or year when it’s ready? Why are they only mentioning old stuff they are throwing in? Yes, money. The Suite plugins are great but they are a decade old and who wants to mix in VEP or doesn’t have plugins and a workflow already? Who needs a random set of promo samples? Why shouldn’t people be worried when the developer of such an important tool is behaving weird?


This. I believe most people have good intentions, but there is a notable shift in marketing styles that seems focused more on revenue and less about a win for the customers. Not placing any judgment on Vienna (or the other companies doing the same dance recently) but it is something to watch...


----------



## Ben

EgM said:


> I currently use 2 of 3 licenses and I have to pay 75E and 45E x 3 for this upgrade if I wanna keep my 3 licenses up to date. Unless VEP7 brings features that are out of this world, this is a total lack of loyalty to existing users. VEP6 upgrade cost like 75E for all 3.


That's incorrect. You just have to buy the 75€ Upgrade and 2x 45€ Upgrades = 165€, or you'll buy just one additional upgrade (you said you just need two licenses) => 120€
It is still more than the 100-120€ Upgrade from 5 -> 6, but still: Nothing is released yet: Nobody forces you to buy now. VSL already confirmed that they will announce the new features before introduction price ends.


----------



## artmanjam

Guy Rowland said:


> While its unusual for VSL to offer a pre-order on a product with little info, its not as if they're holding a gun to our heads. I'm not sure why any of this is evidence that VSL have signed their corporate souls over to Beelzebub.



Hi Guy, they just deliver no info at all about VEpro7 itself. It's not a new orchestral bank but the very platform we're all working with. They're not holding a gun indeed, but the subject can stand for pretty much sensitive, at least, regarding everyone's workflow. 

SY Strings has been a particularly bad experience and, not talking about Beelzebub  VSL practises don't incline me to closed eyes confidence since then. I had great respect for their work in the past, ordered about 10k€ products for 10 years. I'm much more careful about their 'magnificent' announcements now. Things have changed for a while and not for anything better imo...

That said, you're right for a part, let's wait and see. What I definitely know is that I won't have any closed eyes preorder like I did for the SY Strings.


----------



## Guy Rowland

artmanjam - I think their entire Synchron series is at best a questionable idea given VSL's expertise in the silent studio, and the Syncrhonized series is just nuts. It's the craziest offering in all Sampledom. The big selling point of the original series is control, and typically exquisite legato transitions. This is because it has been recorded on the Silent Stage. To actually take those samples and bake in some artificial reverb - screwing up the very thing that was good about them in the first place by muddying all those transitions - and THEN asking original owners to buy them again is jaw-dropping. Here's an idea - why not keep the same samples and add those effects AFTER playback in the player, before the damage is done? (answer - because we couldn't sell that as a new product and people wouldn't pay twice for the same thing).

So look, I can be appropriately cynical. I'm all for people exercising caution before buying VSL, or indeed anything from anyone. If we know anything in our little commercial sphere that is VIs and Sample Libraries - developers will go to any lengths to sell anything. Very few, if any, developers are entirely immune from this.

It seems pretty clear to me that VSL figured - not unreasonably - that despite all this, Epic Orchestra 2.0 would be a draw for some people. Hey, 73 GB, it must be good, right? So they've decided to release it for sale, and withhold information about VE Pro 7 itself, part of a phased marketing strategy. If they only offered the discount for anyone buying it on faith I'd be upset too. As it is - well, they're just doing what developers do, and getting some cashflow going. That's of no interest to me, but I'm entirely neutral about it because they will tell me shortly what VE Pro 7 actually is, and then I can make an informed decision on that.

I think VE Pro 6 is fantastic. I can certainly imagine features in 7 that would have me giddily handing over cash as fast as I am able. To see if any of these - or anything else useful I haven't thought of - comes to pass, I wait. All the rest is irrelevant distraction as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I think the thing ( I wouldn´t call it issue) that some users are having a hard time with, is the change of licenses policies, almost duplicating the upgrade cost for some users is a tough pill to swallow if you want to stay current and don´t have future compatibility issues.

It kind of looks like a money grab (IMHO), you could sell the licenses separately but have the three licenses upgrade as an option to previous users.

I think there are less and less companies that reward old customers (Alex W comes to mind), and make the best offers for new users (EW spaces II comes to mind)


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

FYI, I wrote VSL to ask how long the pre-order pricing would be available, and Paul Kopf kindly wrote back to say that it will stay available for some time, and that we'll be informed before the price change.


----------



## nas

Unless there is a real compelling reason to upgrade (i.e. features that are very useful or vastly improved efficiency etc..) then I see no reason to pay for extra licenses when I already have 3 that I use on VEP 6 and everything is running smoothly.


----------



## janila

Is the upgrade pricing the same from VEP 5 and 6? If the upgrade pricing from the older versions is too steep then those customers are never coming back once they miss an upgrade. Maybe we’re getting into Cubase/Komplete territory where it’s more than advisable to pass every other yearly upgrade.


----------



## C-Wave

That’s amazing the bad will all over the place... @janilla it’s same pricing.


----------



## Rob Elliott

The fact of the matter for me (master and 3 slaves) - VEP is right there with Cubase Pro for the MOST important software I own. I'd pay twice/thrice the price if I 'had to'.  This pricing model seems fair IMHO.


----------



## jamwerks

The Synchronized thing is just a way for a new offering that some may like and buy into, at a limited cost to VSL. Nothing wrong with that Imo. Unfortunately that seems to have slowed down the launch of newer products. 

Synchron Percussion is great imo & gave me high hopes and expectations for what would follow. Synchron Strings made me think that something was fundamentally wrong inside the VSL apparatus as far as editing but also the chain of commands. How did people there let them launch that with the problems (especially the Violins) that anyone could have heard. No one was pulling the fire alarm? 

Anyway hope they've resolved those issues and that the next orchestral offering will be up to par with their legacy. The competition will be tough now with OT, Audiobro & Cinematic Studio.


----------



## LinusW

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What issues are you having?


Crashes or freezes. The slave PC won't even pass "Initializing" at boot. Support wants to remote my PC and have a look but I wan't to sit in front when they log in so that'll wait until next week. 
Ensemble Pro (!) Server is working on my main Mac now, but Vienna Instruments/Ensemble (not Pro) will crash on launch. Latest versions installed everywhere.


----------



## LinusW

€75 is for upgrading the 3 licenses I got earlier? $45 for additional single licenses is for license #4 and above?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

It sounds to me like you have a corrupted file, a conflict, or a network issue.

If you read VSL's forum, you'll see that your story isn't typical.



LinusW said:


> Crashes or freezes. The slave PC won't even pass "Initializing" at boot. Support wants to remote my PC and have a look but I wan't to sit in front when they log in so that'll wait until next week.
> Ensemble Pro (!) Server is working on my main Mac now, but Vienna Instruments/Ensemble (not Pro) will crash on launch. Latest versions installed everywhere.


----------



## LinusW

Support were guessing a 3rd part VST, but I moved everything in the VSTPlugins folder except VSL and it did not help.

No network issue, other DAWs and applications, internet connection/browser/network tools and everything else works fine.


----------



## EgM

LinusW said:


> €75 is for upgrading the 3 licenses I got earlier? $45 for additional single licenses is for license #4 and above?



75€ for 1 of the 3 licenses, 45€ x 2 for the other 2 licenses.


----------



## Dietz

Guy Rowland said:


> the Syncrhonized series is just nuts. It's the craziest offering in all Sampledom. The big selling point of the original series is control, and typically exquisite legato transitions. This is because it has been recorded on the Silent Stage. To actually take those samples and bake in some artificial reverb - screwing up the very thing that was good about them in the first place by muddying all those transitions -


Errrrr ... this seems to be a misunderstanding: The "Synchron-ized" Vienna Instruments have no "baked-in artificial reverb". They were completely re-mastered and use some kind of next-generation MIRx for placement, tone and "artificial reverb" (ha!) to achieve a believable blend between the Vienna Instruments and Synchron Series, but nothing is "baked in".


----------



## LinusW

EgM said:


> 75€ for 1 of the 3 licenses, 45€ x 2 for the other 2 licenses.


Ouch. I guess v6 slaves won't be able to connect to a v7 host?


----------



## kitekrazy

Ben said:


> I just installed it and this is my first impression:
> Content you'll get:
> - Old content is just "synchronized" and sounds good.
> - Syn. Strings: You get Short, Soft lyrical vib, Flautando. They sound good imo, full range over the keyboard. So can be usefull in some scenarios (layering, pad)
> - Syn FX Strings: 4 articulations, usefull if you need that kind of stuff
> - Syn App Strings: Only strong vib Legato and Slides up, only Vio I (there is no IR included for Vio II).
> - Syn Chamber Strings: Only Vio I and only Legato, Halftone trill. No idea how to combine this with the rest of the collection...
> - Syn Dim Brass: Only Wagner Tubas + Stacc, Portato, Sustain, Blare, Marcato. 4 players, individual programmable. Really great and a highlight of the collection.
> - Syn Percussion: Snare Drum, Bass Drum, Tam-Tam
> - Power Drums: Tama Star Light Set
> - Smart Spheres: Tremolo Pad, High Anxiety, Pad Bass, Distorted Bass
> 
> You will get multiple microphone positions with the Synchron Libraries, which is great, but imo you should buy this for VEPro and not the bonus content. It's nice to have it if you don't have the libraries, but no must-have.



So this is like a "taster" library bloated to 73GB? I almost thought about getting it for the library since I only have Special Editions and loaded the 1st epic on another machine. I'd just wait when I wanted to install VEPro 7. It may be a complete pass for me.

I've been watching their forum and nice to see some complaining about the upgrade pricing. I'm not sure why this would attract new users since the 3 license format cost me less than this single license.


----------



## Ben

kitekrazy said:


> So this is like a "taster" library bloated to 73GB?


It includes all available mic-positions. This makes the library huge.


----------



## C-Wave

Ben said:


> It includes all available mic-positions. This makes the library huge.


Synchron Strings alone is 35GB as per Paul’s demo video.


----------



## NYC Composer

Rob Elliott said:


> The fact of the matter for me (master and 3 slaves) - VEP is right there with Cubase Pro for the MOST important software I own. I'd pay twice/thrice the price if I 'had to'.  This pricing model seems fair IMHO.


I’m right there with you. Dunno about the included library (the initial epic orch got a TON of use from me, what a nice little add on that was!) but I’m still totally amazed at what the software does. On my ancient Mac Pro, I’d say it approximately doubles the amount of CPU/ASIO performance with Cubase, and its ability to hook up MIDI and audio to a slave computer with a CAT cord STILL blows my mind.

But, er...though I bought the upgrade from 5 to 6, I never exactly installed it. I guess I’ll wait and see about 7.

Anyway, Kontakt and VEP are, to me, the two essential pieces of software. Omnisphere is almost there but not quite.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Dietz said:


> Errrrr ... this seems to be a misunderstanding: The "Synchron-ized" Vienna Instruments have no "baked-in artificial reverb". They were completely re-mastered and use some kind of next-generation MIRx for placement, tone and "artificial reverb" (ha!) to achieve a believable blend between the Vienna Instruments and Synchron Series, but nothing is "baked in".



So to be clear - which the VSL information absolutely isn't - you're saying that although they went back and manipulated the original samples, the reverb part of it is handled in Synchron Player AFTER sample playback?


----------



## Dietz

Guy Rowland said:


> So to be clear - which the VSL information absolutely isn't - you're saying that although they went back and manipulated the original samples, the reverb part of it is handled in Synchron Player AFTER sample playback?


In case of the Synchron-ized Vienna Instruments: Yes, similar to MIRx. In case of Synchron Series: No, the room is part of the recording (... but there's still the _additional_ algorithmic reverb in the Synchron Player for sweetening).


----------



## Guy Rowland

Thanks Dietz - though it doesn’t make me want to go anywhere near the Synchronized range, it’s certainly less bad to do it that way. IMO the information available about the range is very poor. I looked specifically for this information at the time and after a lot of head scratching concluded it was baked in.


----------



## C-Wave

Guy Rowland said:


> Thanks Dietz - though it doesn’t make me want to go anywhere near the Synchronized range, it’s certainly less bad to do it that way. IMO the information available about the range is very poor. I looked specifically for this information at the time and after a lot of head scratching concluded it was baked in.


It’s easy to draw this conclusion , but if you check the size of the Synchron-ized libraries themselves (the ones that were recorded in silent stage) you see they are in fact have a size pretty close to the dry versions. Not the case with Synchron line (i.e. Synchron strings, etc..).
In fact Synchron-ized Epic Orchestra 2.0 is the same size as the dry (VI-Pro) Epic Ocrchestra version; 8GB.. without the extra add-ons.. as i mentioned in the post above. Hence proving Dietz point.


----------



## Ben

Library Size:
You can choose wich sections of Epic instruments to download and install (if you don't want / need SYN Strings because its size, you can install just the other instruments).
These are the seperate files and their sizes ("EpicOrch2_01" is the synchronized original Epic Orchestra)





Synchronized Instruments:
You can disable the added Synchron IR- and additional plate- / algorithmic- reverb from the preset with just a few clicks and save it as preset. They are 100% dry (the synchronized instruments like App/Chamberstrings, original Epic Orchestra, Dim Brass II.
The Synchron (FX) Strings, Power Drums, Sync Percussion are recorded wet).


----------



## Sub3OneDay

This... A millions times This.


jononotbono said:


> Here’s to hoping NKS will be incorporated into VEPro 7 so the Lightguide will work with Kontakt instruments hosted in VEPro on a networked Machine (and Local).


----------



## Ben

If you preorder through the 28.02, you'll recive the "The Giant Taiko Drum bonus library" additionally.


----------



## Michael Antrum

@Dietz 

I'm sorry to be 'that guy', but when will you be letting us know about the new features that are in VE Pro 7 ? Even a basic outline would be great. I understand why you may not wish to give a release date

Since the Taiko Drum bonus ends in 5 days, will you be releasing details on the new features in VE Pro 7 *before* then ? 

I do appreciate that you guys are very excited about the Epic Orchestra 2.0, but for many of us VePro 7 is the main event here.

I love VePro 6, and whilst the software upgrade is bit more expensive than before, I still think it's pretty amazing value for money and I can also see why you have split the licences to individual ones. So I'm with you all the way so far.

But I'm still scratching my head a little as to why you put a product out on pre-order and at the same time have given virtually no details about it.

Best Wishes, Michael.


----------



## Dietz

Michael Antrum said:


> @Dietz
> 
> I'm sorry to be 'that guy', but when will you be letting us know about the new features that are in VE Pro 7


Sorry @Michael Antrum, but I'm "not that guy". ;-D ... I'm just a sound engineer who happens to develop stuff for VSL every now and then, but I have no deeper insight into the realm of software engineering of the company (with the exception of MIR, of course). Truth to be told: I haven't seen anything of VEP7 myself, up to now.


----------



## artmanjam

Everything is anything but clear here. Are they promoting Epic Orchestra or Giant Taiko or VE Pro7?

Looks like a sort of a weird cooking recipe... An old free bonus meal revisited, a pinch of salt and pepper from different banks, all this offered when preordering an unknown ingredient nobody knows anything about... And an increasing bidding auction now: a Taiko has just been added for a short time to the basket! 

Is it enough for the 'magnificent' bride we never saw?

No preorder for me, I don't want to be fooled twice.


----------



## ptram

Since there is a giant taiko drum as a bonus, I guess VEPRO 7 will be able to handle much bigger sounds than before!

Paolo


----------



## Audio Birdi

May as well promote Epic Orchestra 2.0 seperately, as promoting it over VEP 7 feels like that VEP won't have much at all in terms of new features, especially if they're trying to entice us to get VEP 7 by going crazy with advertising the bundled orchestra. 

All we want is a simple list containing info on new features so we can get hyped and make a decision. We can wait for videos later, which is how they've done it in the past, features first and video later! But it looks like they want to make the videos and list each feature 1 by 1.

It's the whole announcement of an announcement of an announcement thing going on again I feel :(


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

The concept of their marketing seems all wrong to me. If you're looking to buy VEP, it's because you already have a lot of libraries--and that probably includes taikos and orchestra basics--and you are looking for a way to manage the load.

Who out there is looking to manage the load, and _also_ looking to buy their basic libraries? It just doesn't make sense.


----------



## kitekrazy

According to Paul a VSL the single license was a popular request. Their forum outside of the fanboyz dictates otherwise.

I'm not sure how this attracts new people. My first license of VEP5 didn't cost the price of a single license of 7. I could see "new" people going with EW products since you don't even need a dongle. I warn the casual user to be cautious of VSL because of the replacement policy. Once that's mentioned it's a big turn off. VEP is still an amazing piece of software.


----------



## Audio Birdi

kitekrazy said:


> I warn the casual user to be cautious of VSL because of the replacement policy. Once that's mentioned it's a big turn off. VEP is still an amazing piece of software.


This is what scares me most when using VEP, if my dongle goes capput, then i'll have to pay 50% the cost of a full licence to get a recovery licence. Can't find a viable alternative to VEP though unfortunately. Paying €70 for "premium dongle protection" is nuts!


----------



## rrichard63

kitekrazy said:


> According to Paul at VSL the single license was a popular request. Their forum outside of the fanboyz dictates otherwise. ...


The problem is not the new pricing policy for new users. I think that will prove to be a good thing. The problem is the upgrade pricing for existing users, especially existing users who need more than one license.


----------



## thomasjdev

What was the regular price for a new user to get VEPro 6 with the three licenses?

Being a new user I decided to jump into VEPro. I read about the 50% policy and don’t like it, but since I’m already using Cubase I have the dongle, which i’ve just come to accept. 

I’m enjoying what I can do with 6 right now on a single machine and hopefully whatever they announce with 7 will be that much better.


----------



## rrichard63

thomasjdev said:


> What was the regular price for a new user to get VEPro 6 with the three licenses?


I believe it was 285 euros. The regular price for VEPro 7 will be 195 euros for one license, 260 for two licenses, and 325 for three licenses.


----------



## kitekrazy

Audio Birdi said:


> This is what scares me most when using VEP, if my dongle goes capput, then i'll have to pay 50% the cost of a full licence to get a recovery licence. Can't find a viable alternative to VEP though unfortunately. Paying €70 for "premium dongle protection" is nuts!



That was the beauty of the 3 licenses if you didn't use them all for VEP.


----------



## kitekrazy

rrichard63 said:


> *I believe it was 285 euros.* The regular price for VEPro 7 will be 195 euros for one license, 260 for two licenses, and 325 for three licenses.



I doubt anyone paid that much. The price is high now just in case there's a grace period in getting a free upgrade.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

so.... what does VEP7 do?


----------



## Dewdman42

The problem is that most of us bought vep with the understanding that it could support a few machines with that license, and a reasonable expectation about what future update pricing would be for that three-machine license. Vsl is now changing the terms of that relationship to a more expensive ongoing cost for what we reasonably expected it to be, while making a single license the new normal. In my view it’s unethical. I would not have paid what I paid for a single license. Part of the sell for me was knowing I could run it on my main daw as well as potentially at least one more server. The price was acceptable to me knowing that would be a possibility. But now they are changing what the cost will be to have that possibility rolling forward and making it more expensive. I personally don’t think it’s cool at all despite what the vsl fanboys will say. It will take a very impressive list of new features to get me to upgrade. 

In general vsl has been making a lot of these kinds of decisions lately. First they create a dongle license crisis through unreasonable policies and then offer the insurance to protect consumers from their own draconian policies. It’s ludicrous and unethical.

Mind you I love using their product and if vep7 brings enough to the table they will still get my money because there is nothing else. But we shall see.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I don’t like it either, I wish they would let us choose between the three licenses and the epic orchestra.


----------



## Audio Birdi

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> so.... what does VEP7 do?


It entices you to buy a useless orchestra library without telling you what VEP7 actually does.


----------



## Symfoniq

Dewdman42 said:


> The problem is that most of us bought vep with the understanding that it could support a few machines with that license, and a reasonable expectation about what future update pricing would be for that three-machine license. Vsl is now changing the terms of that relationship to a more expensive ongoing cost for what we reasonably expected it to be, while making a single license the new normal. In my view it’s unethical. I would not have paid what I paid for a single license. Part of the sell for me was knowing I could run it on my main daw as well as potentially at least one more server. The price was acceptable to me knowing that would be a possibility. But now they are changing what the cost will be to have that possibility rolling forward and making it more expensive. I personally don’t think it’s cool at all despite what the vsl fanboys will say. It will take a very impressive list of new features to get me to upgrade.
> 
> In general vsl has been making a lot of these kinds of decisions lately. First they create a dongle license crisis through unreasonable policies and then offer the insurance to protect consumers from their own draconian policies. It’s ludicrous and unethical.
> 
> Mind you I love using their product and if vep7 brings enough to the table they will still get my money because there is nothing else. But we shall see.



It probably would have been fair call me a VSL fanboy not very long ago, so I'm not being a "hater" (maybe a jilted lover?) when I say that IMO, you're not wrong.

The license key situation has always been aggravating, but I would have stopped short of calling it unethical. VSL said they were working on the problem. But then rather than eliminating the problem entirely, they "fixed" it by coming up with a way to charge more money. Memo to VSL: Most sample libraries don't have this ridiculous "lost license key" problem in the first place. I'm certainly not paying more to fix a problem of your own making.

The handling of Synchron Strings, however, absolutely crossed the unethical line for me. VSL did not deliver what was promised. It's a half-baked library with unusable legato from the original innovator in legato. Didn't see that one coming. VSL's many-years-old silent stage libraries are far better (and apparently they've decided it's easier to "Synchronize" those old libraries than turn out re-recorded ones of similar quality). But since I considered VSL one of the few companies whose products were safe to pre-order, I'm out $500 that would have been better used for lottery tickets or fire kindling.

So it's from this viewpoint that I say I will not pre-order VE Pro 7. It might be great software, but I can no longer take the company at their word. I can only go on their recent track record, and it is wanting.


----------



## ELADORE

You are all right. I don't understand why they can't just write some words about the features. Are they still waiting for the programmer to confirm the features? Basis sound library's is really not the right thing to attract professionals. Like already written the only reason why you use vepro is because you have a lot of libraries to distribute over the network.

As I am also a marketing guy I understand the thinking behind the story. They think if they give professionals synchron libraries for free they maybe buy the big products. I don't know if this could happen with the really bad synchron strings libraries but the way in general is totally wrong. 

Pros buy a vepro update to have new features in the first place. Then you can give them some teaser instruments on top if you like.

The only costumer group you can reach with this marketing are beginners who just think about buying vepro for the first time. They could be perhaps teased... But this is just a very small client group.

I want to see features like midi loop back, enhanced activation/deactivation, better automation mapping work flow, better performance ...

Who needs a internal channel strip in vepro? You can do that with vst plugings...


----------



## DANIELE

As a new customer of VEP I was thinking of buying it but by reading your last comments I'm not so convinced anymore.

First of all the lack of informations, this make me think many things, all of them not so good.

Second the dongle policy, I have to buy a steinberg dongle (I'm an happy Reaper user) and if it brokes for some reason I have to re-buy 50% of the VEP license (together with a new dongle if I understand well), it's unfair.

Third I don't know if it could be an enhancement for me.

I'll buy it if:

1) It optimizes my work and my workflow with stability, good resources use and so on...
2) I could load my instruments faster;
3) Manage them with keystrokes from my main view.

I'd like to have the possibility to load lighter projects in Reaper and manage everything from a specialized software but the workflow should be an excellence.


----------



## rrichard63

My situation is similar to that of @DANIELE. I have been considering VEPro for a while now. For me, however, the pre-order price for the new version is an opportunity. First, I only need one license, at least for the foreseeable future, so the single-license policy amounts to a price decrease. Second, I get a VEPro 6 license which (if I understand correctly) is mine to keep even if version 7 turns out to be the upgrade from hell. And third, the only Synchron library I have is Smart Orchestra, and it looks like parts of Epic Orchestra 2 will complement that in Synchron Player and therefore be useful to me.

So yesterday I placed my pre-order. But I understand a lot of the concerns being expressed here and on the VSL forum. It does appear that VSL is trying to bring in new, mainly hobbyist, users at the expense of their existing, mainly professional, users. There's nothing wrong with trying to expand their market, but I think they could do it in ways that don't threaten their existing customers.


----------



## Ben

The eLicenser is not that bad how it's often said. I had never an issue with it.

First: The eLicenser stick has a two years warranty. If it breaks in this period you get a new one and all your replace licenses for free.

Second: If you have a thumb-drive / portable SSD with important information on it, you care for it and don't think all day "I might loose my data, my live is ruined".
If you only have VEPro on your eLicenser: Just be carefull, just like with your car's key. If you have a lot of other licenses on that thing, just buy the insurance. It is not expensive compared to having licenses worth 10k on it. This was a good solution for me (yes, free would be better. But what is free on earth?).

Steinberg is working on a better solution with eLicenser technology (confirmed on Steinberg's Dorico forum) and I think as soon as they come up with something that works, VSL will adapt this solution (keep in mind that VSL licenses this technology).

No copy-protection is no solution sadly: Most VSTis are available as pirated copies. VSL in the beginning had no protection and got pirated so bad, it was hurting their business. After using eLicenser their sales started to multipy (there is a post of somone from VSL on some forum about this; don't want to look it up now).

It's not an optimal solution, but it's not that bad as pointed out: You don't stay home every day because there is the small posibility that something bad will happen to you (get robbed, get killed by accident, etc). If it is ok for your life to take the really small risk of living, it should be ok to take the very small risk of getting your eLicenser dongle unavailable (if you are still conserned think about the 2-years warranty; just buy a new one every two years if you fear it might break).


----------



## lumcas

Ben said:


> The eLicenser is not that bad how it's often said. I had never an issue with it.
> 
> First: The eLicenser stick has a two years warranty. If it breaks in this period you get a new one and all your replace licenses for free.



So you're saying that instead of buying the insurance €70/year I'd be better off buying the eLicenser key for €25 every 2 years, right? I've known the VSL policy regarding the eLicenser for quite some time, but when I read this on their website - "To meet you in the middle, you can purchase replacement licenses with a 50% discount on the list price" it is well beyond ridiculous...


----------



## Ben

lumcas said:


> So you're saying that instead of buying the insurance €70/year I'd be better off buying the eLicenser key for €25 every 2 years, right? I've known the VSL policy regarding the eLicenser for quite some time, but when I read this on their website - "To meet you in the middle, you can purchase replacement licenses with a 50% discount on the list price" it is well beyond ridiculous...


Yes, as long as the reason for license loss is a broken eLicenser, you get your licenses back for free within the 2-years warrenty. After two years you have to pay a small recovery fee for each license (or you buy a new one to stay in warranty).

If you loose your eLicenser or it gets stolen you have to pay 50% to get replacment licenses (warranty will not save you in this case, but assurence will).


----------



## Symfoniq

Ben said:


> Second: If you have a thumb-drive / portable SSD with important information on it, you care for it and don't think all day "I might loose my data, my live is ruined".
> If you only have VEPro on your eLicenser: Just be carefull, just like with your car's key. If you have a lot of other licenses on that thing, just buy the insurance. It is not expensive compared to having licenses worth 10k on it. This was a good solution for me (yes, free would be better. But what is free on earth?).



But you are comparing apples and oranges.

I don't worry about the data on my portable SSD because I have it backed up elsewhere (and it's also encrypted).

I can't back up my eLicenser to another eLicenser.

Moreover, VSL now maintains that when you make a claim on your eLicenser insurance, "Your lost/broken/stolen ViennaKey will be disabled and cannot be used anymore." They used to claim this wasn't possible, which is why we had to re-buy our libraries at 50% of retail price. So which is it?

The root problem is that VSL is trying to have it both ways: treat a legal construct called a "license" as a physical thing that can be lost. I'm skeptical that this would hold up to legal scrutiny, but I think VSL knows most customers aren't going to waste their time and money finding out.


----------



## muk

It looks like VSL has changed course dramatically in the last one or two years. I suppose it is meant as a modernization, but to me it comes across as an attempt at cashing in on customers as much as possible. Just a few examples:

Instead of releasing a Synchron Stage expansion of Mirx and MIR, they release 'synchronized' versions of their VI libraries. This way you can rebuy all your old libraries again, simply with a reverb tail baked in. Truly horrible concept in my opinion, and I can't understand why anyone would want to buy this inflexible version of samples that you already bought once (without artificial reverb slashed on them - something that I can do myself easily, thank you). Once VSL ran a slogan 'Never pay twice for a sample'. They are now as far removed from this slogan as I can imagine.

VSL's idea of a solution to their highly unpopular dongle policy is - to charge an ongoing fee every two years to insure your licenses. If you pay this fee, VSL states, they will disable a lost or stolen key, and provide you with new licenses. The big question, for me, is this: why does VSL need you to pay an ongoing fee for it? Why don't they just deactivate the licenses on a key that is reported as lost or stolen, and charge the 70€ on occurence? I've asked VSL. Never got a reply.

The upgrade to Vienna Ensemble 6 cost 105€ for three licenses. Now they are advertising single licenses as 'new feature'. In fact, apart from 'integrated fx' it is the only new feature of Vienna Ensemble 7 that is currently listed on their website! This new 'feature', of course, goes hand in hand with a price increase of a whopping 94% for three licenses (95€ upgrade to VE 7, plus 90€ for two additional licenses).
I'm allergic to this kind of marketing, because to me it feels as if their marketing department is taking me for a fool. Selling a downgrade (only 1 license coming with VE 7 instead of 3) or/and a hefty price increase as a 'feature' - that's the new VSL marketing for you. They could have been upfront about it, telling that 3 licenses will be more expensive now, and explain why they deem that necessary. I suspect that's what the old VSL would have done. Not anymore.
Trying to cross-sell the Vienna Ensemble 7 upgrade through the Epic Orchestra 2 doesn't instill much confidence in me that VE 7 is where VSL's priorities lie with this upgrade either.

I won't even go into the Synchron Strings preorder, or the Synchron Strings library itself. To me, VSL as a company has lost most of its appeal in the past few months.


----------



## dgburns

Thinking out loud-

I don’t mind paying for upgrades as this supports continued development. Hopefully there will be some improvements in the automation area. Not to mention future proofing, I guess. But you know, if V6 ain’t broke ....

But all in all, this software has become nearly indispensable to me next to the actual daw.


----------



## Symfoniq

muk said:


> VSL's idea of a solution to their highly unpopular dongle policy is - to charge an ongoing fee every two years to insure your licenses. If you pay this fee, VSL states, they will disable a lost or stolen key, and provide you with new licenses. The big question, for me, is this: why does VSL need you to pay an ongoing fee for it? Why don't they just deactivate the licenses on a key that is reported as lost or stolen, and charge the 70€ on occurence? I've asked VSL. Never got a reply.



This is a great point. It reinforces that VSL sees our apprehension over lost or stolen dongles as a profit opportunity. Charging the fee per-incident, while more palatable to the customer, would surely result in less revenue for VSL.


----------



## Ben

muk said:


> Instead of releasing a Synchron Stage expansion of Mirx and MIR, they release 'synchronized' versions of their VI libraries. This way you can rebuy all your old libraries again, simply with a reverb tail baked in.


Correction:
- The reverb is not baked in. You'll get the instrument + SYN Player with included IR, which you can disable at any time and replace with your own reverb. The samples are still dry.
- MIRx (mode) for Synchron is still in production (there is a big thread for this in the VSL forum with answerz from Dietz)


----------



## Dewdman42

As usual vsl sees things in terms of how to protect themselves, not how to protect their consumers. The reason they can offer the insurance as insurance is because they know that only a certain small percentage of licenses sold will turn up lost or damaged. BY having everyone pay the insurance then they collect enough to cover completely those small number of cases in their view. If they only charged a small fee on the case of loss then they may experience financial loss due to theft and they will not allow themselves to lose one single penny for that.

The hole they are plugging with that policy is that we the consumer could report a license lost (when actually it’s not) and then give the dongle to our buddy who never allows it to be used on a machine that is connected to the internet. In such a case, then the insurance they are charging to everyone or the 50% charge to those that refuse the insurance, should more then make up for that potential theft against them.

That is their thinking. Total brick wall protection for them against absolutely any loss of revenue, but we the consumers pay for that insurance which protects them. How nice for them.


----------



## Symfoniq

Ben said:


> Correction:
> - The reverb is not baked in. You'll get the instrument + SYN Player with included IR, which you can disable at any time and replace with your own reverb. The samples are still dry.



Which means that if you already own, say, Appassionata Strings, then buying the Synchronized version is buying the same samples all over again, right?


----------



## muk

Thanks for the correction Ben. Makes me understand the Synchronize concept even less.

@Dewdman42 could be true. Either way, as you state, VSL is laying all the cost for and risks of their protection onto their customers. 

In any case, through what I consider to be very unfortunate changes in their direction as a company, VSL has lost a paying customer in me.


----------



## Ben

Symfoniq said:


> Which means that if you already own, say, Appassionata Strings, then buying the Synchronized version is buying the same samples all over again, right?


Yes, partially right. Depends on the library. For SYN App Strings for example they re-edited all material and added some recorded samples that were not included in the original library. The SYN Dimension Brass was really cheap to upgrade because they didn't edit the samples, just converted them and added the IR + presets.

I see two use-cases for the Syncronized series:

- to have an instant instrument without the need for setting up reverb, panning and volume. Saves time and helps especially composers without mixing skills; or users of the Synchron strings to blend these libraries. Users of the old instruments get the Synchronized instruments at a discount. So you don't pay twice for the samples, but for the re-editing + Synchron player.

- to get started with VSL if you don't have MIR Pro / mixing skills and very good reverb. It's easier to learn and you don't have to buy MIR Pro, which more than doubles the price if you just need one library.

I personally have MIR Pro and the Synchron Room-Pack, so I don't see the need to upgrade to the Synchronized line. But I see that it might be usefull for new customers or existing ones who just need some good mock-ups.


----------



## kitekrazy

lumcas said:


> So you're saying that instead of buying the insurance €70/year I'd be better off buying the eLicenser key for €25 every 2 years, right? I've known the VSL policy regarding the eLicenser for quite some time, but when I read this on their website - "To meet you in the middle, you can purchase replacement licenses with a 50% discount on the list price" it is well beyond ridiculous...



There's no guarantee the newer dongle wont last longer than the first one.


----------



## kitekrazy

Audio Birdi said:


> It entices you to buy a useless orchestra library without telling you what VEP7 actually does.



I fell for it. I paid $71 so I have some more VSL stuff.


----------



## Audio Birdi

kitekrazy said:


> I fell for it. I paid $71 so I have some more VSL stuff.


I’m not fussed about the Taiko offer they’re running, all we all want is a list of features for VEP 7 but they still haven’t finished it, it’s silly having a pre-order for Epic Orch when the star of the show itself has no information at all yet other than FX ported from Vienna Suite :/.


----------



## C-Wave

*Vienna Protection Plan*

*Protect your valuable VSL licenses for 2 years*
*No downtime when reporting a ViennaKey as lost, stolen, or broken*
*Simple and straightforward*
*Did you ever worry about what will happen when you were to lose your ViennaKey, or if it breaks or gets stolen?
Worry no more!*

BRAND NEW: For a fee of €70 per ViennaKey, the Vienna Protection Plan will cover your valuable VSL licenses for two years, no matter how many licenses are stored on each ViennaKey! No downtime for you, no more worries!


*This is how it works:*

Order your *Vienna Protection Plan*.
Insert the ViennaKey with the VSL licenses you want to protect. Activate your protection in the eLicenser Control Center by entering your Activation Code and start the usage period. The VSL licenses on this ViennaKey are now protected.
We’ll let you know before your plan expires.

*What if my ViennaKey breaks, or if I lose my key?*

*Your licenses are safe*. Report your lost, stolen or broken ViennaKey *here *.
You’ll receive a 50 hours Vienna Emergency License RIGHT AWAY. The 50 hours refer to working hours, e.g., if you work 5 hours on one day, you have 45 hours left.
You need a ViennaKey to store the Emergency License on. If you don’t have a spare ViennaKey on hand, order one here or pick one up at a Vienna Authorized Dealer.
An operator will look into your case. You’ll receive permanent replacement licenses for the VSL licenses stored on the damaged/lost/stolen key as soon as possible. 
*Free of charge*!
Your lost/broken/stolen ViennaKey will be disabled and cannot be used anymore. Your Vienna Protection Plan is now used up.
Buy a new Vienna Protection Plan for new coverage.




*VIENNA SYMPHONIC LIBRARY*


----------



## jon wayne

C-Wave said:


> *Vienna Protection Plan*
> 
> *Protect your valuable VSL licenses for 2 years*
> *No downtime when reporting a ViennaKey as lost, stolen, or broken*
> *Simple and straightforward*
> *Did you ever worry about what will happen when you were to lose your ViennaKey, or if it breaks or gets stolen?
> Worry no more!*
> 
> BRAND NEW: For a fee of €70 per ViennaKey, the Vienna Protection Plan will cover your valuable VSL licenses for two years, no matter how many licenses are stored on each ViennaKey! No downtime for you, no more worries!
> 
> 
> *This is how it works:*
> 
> Order your *Vienna Protection Plan*.
> Insert the ViennaKey with the VSL licenses you want to protect. Activate your protection in the eLicenser Control Center by entering your Activation Code and start the usage period. The VSL licenses on this ViennaKey are now protected.
> We’ll let you know before your plan expires.
> 
> *What if my ViennaKey breaks, or if I lose my key?*
> 
> *Your licenses are safe*. Report your lost, stolen or broken ViennaKey *here *.
> You’ll receive a 50 hours Vienna Emergency License RIGHT AWAY. The 50 hours refer to working hours, e.g., if you work 5 hours on one day, you have 45 hours left.
> You need a ViennaKey to store the Emergency License on. If you don’t have a spare ViennaKey on hand, order one here or pick one up at a Vienna Authorized Dealer.
> An operator will look into your case. You’ll receive permanent replacement licenses for the VSL licenses stored on the damaged/lost/stolen key as soon as possible.
> *Free of charge*!
> Your lost/broken/stolen ViennaKey will be disabled and cannot be used anymore. Your Vienna Protection Plan is now used up.
> Buy a new Vienna Protection Plan for new coverage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *VIENNA SYMPHONIC LIBRARY*


Never worried about it, once.


----------



## Audio Birdi

jon wayne said:


> Never worried about it, once.


The plastic used on e-licensers is utterly cheap and brittle, which is so frustrating, when I used a laptop more-so a few years ago replacing it was a common occurance due to bits splintering off. I’m glad Pace on the other hand realised plastic = bad idea and went the aluminium route without the need for a cap on top either now. As well as machine licenses being more widely used. Hoping Steinberg / Vienna follow from this after looking at competitors.


----------



## Ashermusic

jon wayne said:


> Never worried about it, once.



A lot cheaper to just have a second key and licenses.


----------



## Audio Birdi

Ashermusic said:


> A lot cheaper to just have a second key and licenses.


Good thinking there Jay! As a licence is a licence, as long as you have purchased an initial licence / the initial upgrade


----------



## jcrosby

Audio Birdi said:


> The plastic used on e-licensers is utterly cheap and brittle, which is so frustrating, when I used a laptop more-so a few years ago replacing it was a common occurance due to bits splintering off.



Two of mine are held together with super glue and clear shipping tape. 

At least they still work though so not a totally lost cause... but indeed... For the price the quality of these are garbage and the price is seriously dodgy.


----------



## Virtuoso

I replaced mine recently out of caution - even though it's never left my basement and hardly ever been unplugged, it started to feel a little fragile.

Is there any reason why Vienna went with E-Licenser rather than iLok?


----------



## kitekrazy

jcrosby said:


> Two of mine are held together with super glue and clear shipping tape.
> 
> At least they still work though so not a totally lost cause... but indeed... For the price the quality of these are garbage and the price is seriously dodgy.



Still using mine from GS4 and one with GVI.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna




----------



## Audio Birdi

jcrosby said:


> Two of mine are held together with super glue and clear shipping tape.
> 
> At least they still work though so not a totally lost cause... but indeed... For the price the quality of these are garbage and the price is seriously dodgy.



$100s / $1000s worth of samples / libraries / software on sticks that can break easily :( hoping they come up with a more secure solution soone


SimonCharlesHanna said:


>


which is crap since there is no info on VEP 7 still, I have a feeling they’ll show the features ON the 28th perhaps :/


----------



## holywilly

Is the bonus giant taiko worth the early adoption of VEP 7?


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

I am a hobbyist who just bought VE Pro for the first time and it is easily one of the best purchases I've ever made for composing on the computer. So I would say to any new user who is having sleepless nights about dongles--just get it. You will be so happy you did.

That said, it isn't the easiest thing to learn. I recommend this video by Dirk Ehlert and this course which you can get by signing up for a month of Groove 3.

The *EPIC ORCHESTRA!!!!!! *had exactly 0% effect on my decision to buy VE Pro. It's a freebie and like all freebies I may find some uses for it. But it is taking a lot of space on my hard drive and I expect I will delete a lot of it. The taiko has already flown the coop.

In terms of VSL, I think I can say that like hundreds or maybe thousands of other people, I would send a lot of money their way if they would change their dongle policy, but I expect they won't. It's their prerogative to run their business the way they see fit.

VSL makes extraordinary instruments and Paul Kopf has been really nice in his emails, but I'll scrape by somehow with the Cinematic Studio Series, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, and the rest. I suspect VE Pro is the only product I will ever buy from them unless they change their policies. But it's a wonderful piece of software and I am very grateful that they created it.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

holywilly said:


> Is the bonus giant taiko worth the early adoption of VEP 7?


No. Not in my opinion. Maybe if you don't have any taikos, but there's a free one from Strezov too.


----------



## Guy Rowland

As someone who's been arguing there's nothing to be alarmed about in any of this, the Taiko promotion makes me alarmed. The situation was - pre release discount, no info on VE Pro 7 but it will come before the discount ends, so nothing to lose by just waiting. No dramas, nothing to be concerned about. That has now changed. After the pre-order period has started (I'm presuming those already ordered will also get it?) there is just a few days to get another goodie. There is no prospect of getting more info on VE Pro 7 during this time.

Why introduce this AFTER the initial pre-release? And why such a short window? (FWIW I asked VSL Paul these questions on their forum, but he declined to answer). For the first time I'm seeing the desperation - its very hard not to conclude that they need people to sign up before they know what they're signing up to. Which can only mean VE Pro 7 itself will prove disappointing.

The only thing to mitigate - for people like me uninterested in Epic Orchestra, they will also likely be uninterested in the Taiko. But it's the window into the possible VSL panic that bothers me. Hopefully all this is nonsense and - not for the first time - I'll be proved wrong.


----------



## Ben

I think it's just an overreaction after the Synchron-Strings-Player-Delay-Drama. Paul wrote in one thread that they are now very cautious with information about unreleased software to prevent such marketing desasters.
The early release of epic orchestra is just marketing for VEPro, but they are in fear of telling about features and then not delivering some of them because of technical problems.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Guy Rowland said:


> As someone who's been arguing there's nothing to be alarmed about in any of this, the Taiko promotion makes me alarmed. The situation was - pre release discount, no info on VE Pro 7 but it will come before the discount ends, so nothing to lose by just waiting. No dramas, nothing to be concerned about. That has now changed. After the pre-order period has started (I'm presuming those already ordered will also get it?) there is just a few days to get another goodie. There is no prospect of getting more info on VE Pro 7 during this time.
> 
> Why introduce this AFTER the initial pre-release? And why such a short window? (FWIW I asked VSL Paul these questions on their forum, but he declined to answer). For the first time I'm seeing the desperation - its very hard not to conclude that they need people to sign up before they know what they're signing up to. Which can only mean VE Pro 7 itself will prove disappointing.
> 
> The only thing to mitigate - for people like me uninterested in Epic Orchestra, they will also likely be uninterested in the Taiko. But it's the window into the possible VSL panic that bothers me. Hopefully all this is nonsense and - not for the first time - I'll be proved wrong.


Starting to think perhaps their Synchron investment is putting them in a hole. Explains a lot of their actions lately.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

I would be gobsmacked, stunned, knocked to the ground in disbelief if everybody who reads VI:Control and all current VE Pro users do not already have 2-20+ taikos that sound as good or profoundly better than this one. If you are not attracted by Epic Orchestra 2.0, then boy do you not need to sweat this. A euphonium maybe, to go with your Oboe d'Amore, Cornet, and Wagner Tubas, but not this.

I see no reason not to trust Paul Kopf and believe that the VE Pro 7 intro promo offer won't end without a good warning (ie not Feb 28/tomorrow) and I am confident that nobody will lose their chance to take advantage of the discount by waiting to find out what the new features are.


----------



## Michael Antrum

So it looks like the Taiko offer is going to expire with absolutely no real info about what's in v7.

I can't understand why they don't see how this looks - especially after the issues with the Synchron Strings launch. Have they learnt nothing ?



​


----------



## Audio Birdi

Michael Antrum said:


> So it looks like the Taiko offer is going to expire with absolutely no real info about what's in v7.
> 
> I can't understand why they don't see how this looks - especially after the issues with the Synchron Strings launch. Have they learnt nothing ?
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Seems not Mike, which is odd since you'd think they'd give a feature list at least before the offer is over? as people mainly want to buy VEP 7 and not Epic Orch 2.0


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr

It´s pure speculation but maybe they got in financial problems since the fiasco with their synchron strings as I can only imagine that it did cost them a lot of money to produce that library which I have my doubts that it even break even financially. Probably they try to create some cash flow with low risk(also with their re-imaged synchronized products). But sure..speculation...still I often see people selling their old VSL stuff and barely see threads here around raving on their recent releases, mostly from the last 2 years. But I hope I am wrong.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

TigerTheFrog said:


> I would be gobsmacked, stunned, knocked to the ground in disbelief if everybody who reads VI:Control and all current VE Pro users do not already have 2-20+ taikos that sound as good or profoundly better than this one. If you are not attracted by Epic Orchestra 2.0, then boy do you not need to sweat this. A euphonium maybe, to go with your Oboe d'Amore, Cornet, and Wagner Tubas, but not this.
> 
> I see no reason not to trust Paul Kopf and believe that the VE Pro 7 intro promo offer won't end without a good warning (ie not Feb 28/tomorrow) and I am confident that nobody will lose their chance to take advantage of the discount by waiting to find out what the new features are.


I did think about this @TigerTheFrog and then I realised that I have almost all of 8Dios drums (including the Taikos now) and EastWest SD3 and others too... so no need for Taikos! 

But it took the comment you wrote earlier today for me to realise that. Shows how marketing panic works on all of us in some way :/ I don't like this manipulation game one bit

And yet, I am so fond of VE Pro


----------



## wst3

funny thing is, I do love VEPro, and I was all set to vote with my wallet, two licenses is all I need, and I can afford it. I probably won't use the included library, but you never know.

Then the taiko - that was a deal breaker for me, I will now wait to find out what's in VEPro 7, I don't need another Taiko...


----------



## Dewdman42

Yea. I don't really understand why VSL is so motivated to get people to buy something sight unseen without enough information about what it will be. All we know really is that it will have some channel FX built in now. aside from that nothing. That's all fine, we can all wait..but why the urgency to get us to pre-order? I think mainly they are trying to attract new buyers at the moment.

They could have handled this all a lot smoother if they had instead offered a VEP6 purchase deal to attract new users, offer the new single license price to get VEP6 with automatic upgrade to VEP7 when it comes. Trying to lure the rest of us into upgrading without even knowing what it is...well its kind of annoying to say the least. And throwing in the bait of the taikos...makes me nervous that there won't actually be all that much to VEP7. But honestly there could be nothing to this, other then poorly planned marketing.

I'm still not over the 3 license to 1 license slap down though.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I think I am reading it wrong but the 45eur upgrade per license is a preorder price?
So if we don´t preorder, to keep a similar config than VEP6 it would cost 225Eur?


----------



## semo

Wasn't the Giant Taiko included with the Synchron String I pre-order? Or is it a different one?


----------



## Ben

semo said:


> Wasn't the Giant Taiko included with the Synchron String I pre-order? Or is it a different one?


Same samples.


----------



## rrichard63

Dewdman42 said:


> ... if they had instead offered a VEP6 purchase deal to attract new users, offer the new single license price to get VEP6 with automatic upgrade to VEP7 when it comes. ...


That's exactly what they are doing. They just aren't describing it that way. I am currently busy learning VEP6 (which is new to me) at a price that was attractive because I only need one license.


----------



## muk

Pablocrespo said:


> I think I am reading it wrong but the 45eur upgrade per license is a preorder price?



Seems pretty clear to me. 45€ is the preorder price for additional licenses. The regular price is 65€. So, after the preorder period, updating to VE Pro 7 with three licenses will cost 225€. Rather hefty in my opinion.



AlexanderSchiborr said:


> It´s pure speculation but maybe they got in financial problems since the fiasco with their synchron strings



For a company the size of VSL I can't imagine this to be the case. _If _something caused financial problems for VSL it surely would be the purchase and renovation of the Synchron Stage itself, not the production of the Synchron Strings library.

My speculation is that they are just trying to attract new customers. They had a reputation for comprehensive, flexible yet complex libraries that are great for concert music. Now they are targeting the film music/epic crowd with their Synchron line, and hobbyist with entry level products. They changed their website (colorful pictures, cool people telling us that they are using VSL products) and their marketing accordingly. Like every other company in sample land they are telling us now how excited they are by their own products.

The opinions of existing customers show that this transition doesn't go without friction.


----------



## Dewdman42

Yea that was not shown on vsl site when I first looked at it it did not have a crossed out retail price for upgrades when I looked at “my price”, but Paul has since clarified, and it’s at the bottom of the product page; that the normal upgrade price will be 95 euros, not 75. And 65 euros for each additional. So wow the normal upgrade price to upgrade our originally purchased 3 license product is now is actually more then i paid for vep6 almost exactly one year ago today.

I paid $235 one year ago at sweetwater. Full upgrade of what I purchased will cost $255.

Actually now more then ever I can say vsl, forget it. Vep7 would have to be the most incredibly improved software ever for me to even remotely consider that.


----------



## heisenberg

TigerTheFrog said:


> That said, it isn't the easiest thing to learn. I recommend this video by Dirk Ehlert and this course which you can get by signing up for a month of Groove 3.



Yes Dirk's tutorials on VEPro are excellent. Mihkel Zilmer's tutorials are superb as well...



You mention the *Groove 3 VEPro tutorial series*. Can you recall how detailed a look they get into MIDI automation and do they get into the DAW side of MIDI automation? I have found this sorely lacking in all the tutorials I have seen.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I´ve just realized that I bought VEP6 for U$244, so the upgrade would cost more than that


----------



## kitekrazy

TigerTheFrog said:


> I am a hobbyist who just bought VE Pro for the first time and it is easily one of the best purchases I've ever made for composing on the computer. So I would say to any new user who is having sleepless nights about dongles--just get it. You will be so happy you did.
> 
> That said, it isn't the easiest thing to learn. I recommend this video by Dirk Ehlert and this course which you can get by signing up for a month of Groove 3.
> 
> *The EPIC ORCHESTRA!!!!!! had exactly 0% effect on my decision to buy VE Pro. *It's a freebie and like all freebies I may find some uses for it. But it is taking a lot of space on my hard drive and I expect I will delete a lot of it. The taiko has already flown the coop.
> 
> In terms of VSL, I think I can say that like hundreds or maybe thousands of other people, I would send a lot of money their way if they would change their dongle policy, but I expect they won't. It's their prerogative to run their business the way they see fit.
> 
> VSL makes extraordinary instruments and Paul Kopf has been really nice in his emails, but I'll scrape by somehow with the Cinematic Studio Series, Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, and the rest. I suspect VE Pro is the only product I will ever buy from them unless they change their policies. But it's a wonderful piece of software and I am very grateful that they created it.



Not me. I'm the dope that falls for these. I have the SE Vol1,2. So I thought it wouldn't hurt to have a little more VSL. VEP 7 probably won't be a bad thing.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

heisenberg said:


> You mention the *Groove 3 VEPro tutorial series*. Can you recall how detailed a look they get into MIDI automation and do they get into the DAW side of MIDI automation? I have found this sorely lacking in all the tutorials I have seen.


I'm still working on that class, watching many of the videos multiple times so I can't say for sure. If it gets into that in depth, I'll let you know. But much of it isn't helpful to me because it's about Logic and I use Cubase on the PC.

But from my understanding of the setup, I'll be doing my mixing and automation in Cubase, in the separate audio tracks routed back from VE Pro, as explained in Dirk's video.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Dewdman42 said:


> I paid $235 one year ago at sweetwater. Full upgrade of what I purchased will cost $255.


haha "Upgrade"


----------



## midiman

I do find it very strange to not reveal any new features of the VE pro 7. I really hope there will be something attractive about the new Features, because the Epic Orch 2.0 is not the selling point for me. Strange they would remove the taiko if not purchased through Feb 28, given they are not giving details about VE pro 7. Also I am not clear in wether the 75 Euros upgrade pricing stays after the 28th. Anyone know?


----------



## Ben

midiman said:


> Also I am not clear in wether the 75 Euros upgrade pricing stays after the 28th. Anyone know?


YES, it stays until at least after more infos are available...


----------



## storyteller

Ben said:


> I think it's just an overreaction after the Synchron-Strings-Player-Delay-Drama. Paul wrote in one thread that they are now very cautious with information about unreleased software to prevent such marketing desasters.
> The early release of epic orchestra is just marketing for VEPro, but they are in fear of telling about features and then not delivering some of them because of technical problems.


I truly hope that the VSL guys are having financial prosperity. But whether they are or whether they are not, the idea that they need to collect cash flow before any information (or product) is released is either A) Intentionally deceptive or B) Due to financial constraints somehow. Or maybe both A&B. This isn’t the same as pre-release hype.

No two ways around it. The bonus Taiko is a "squeeze tactic" which unfortunately indicates ulterior motives in this specific context. There really isn't another option that I can see. But I do hope that neither is the case. I really hope there is great success for all of the artists and for the developers helping artists make music.

That said, even if their cash flow is hurting, they have a loyal fanbase. There should be complete transparency with their customer base where they could ask for suggestions as to how to overcome any hurdles they may be facing rather than continue to create damage. My $0.02 at least.


----------



## LinusW

I got a single VEP7 license now. Slaves will stay on VEP6 for now, let's see how this evolves.


----------



## Pablocrespo

LinusW said:


> I got a single VEP7 license now. Slaves will stay on VEP6 for now, let's see how this evolves.


I think they cannot connect, I don’t know if they can coexist so you could have vep6 and vep7 plugins in your session


----------



## rrichard63

Pablocrespo said:


> I think they cannot connect, I don’t know if they can coexist so you could have vep6 and vep7 plugins in your session


The plugin filenames don't have version numbers, so unless VSL changes that in VEPro 7, you might have problems trying to get your DAW to use both.


----------



## Dewdman42

I believe that will probably be the case, however, it still may be possible to use a third party sub-hosting plugin such as patchworks, plogueBidule, mini-host modular, etc.. and manually pick the exact VEP6 plugin to host in there, rather then relying on the normal VST/AU folder. This is theoretical because who knows what kind of other conflict might happen running inside the daw that way, but if the sub-host keeps it isolated enough, then you could theoretically have connections to 3 VEP6 servers inside PlogueBidule and x number of VEP7 plugins connecting to those servers depending on how many VEP7 licenses you buy.

just thinking out loud...

I definitely doubt that it will be possible to run both the VEP6 and VEP7 plugin directly in the same host at the same time.


----------



## Ben

If you buy an upgrade, you get an additional license, not an upgrade license like with 5->6. So I assume that you are able to run them side by side. But maybe I am wrong.


----------



## LinusW

Pablocrespo said:


> I think they cannot connect, I don’t know if they can coexist so you could have vep6 and vep7 plugins in your session


I'm not having both v6 and v7 in one host/machine. 
The question is if a VEP7 plugin in my main DAW could connect to VEP6 servers on my slaves. What was it like with v5? Can v6 plugins connect to v5?


----------



## C-Wave

LinusW said:


> I'm not having both v6 and v7 in one host/machine.
> The question is if a VEP7 plugin in my main DAW could connect to VEP6 servers on my slaves. What was it like with v5? Can v6 plugins connect to v5?


Paul said in the VSL forum that no it can't.


----------



## T-LeffoH

C-Wave said:


> Paul said in the VSL forum that no it can't.



I haven't yet scoured the Vienna forums for this but can anybody confirm if there is any limitation on using both VEPro v7, 6 (or 5) at the same time in a DAW session so long as the VEPro plugin in the DAW is connecting to a slave with the corresponding version of VEPro?

e.g. v7 plugin (AU/VST/MAS) in DAW connecting to slave PC running v7 VEPRO, also v6 plugin in same DAW session connecting to slave PC running v6 VEPro, or v5 plugin in same DAW session connecting to slave PC running v5 VEPro


----------



## Olivier1024

T-LeffoH said:


> I haven't yet scoured the Vienna forums for this but can anybody confirm if there is any limitation on using both VEPro v7, 6 (or 5) at the same time in a DAW session so long as the VEPro plugin in the DAW is connecting to a slave with the corresponding version of VEPro?
> 
> e.g. v7 plugin (AU/VST/MAS) in DAW connecting to slave PC running v7 VEPRO, also v6 plugin in same DAW session connecting to slave PC running v6 VEPro, or v5 plugin in same DAW session connecting to slave PC running v5 VEPro


Paul from Vienna confirm it's impossible on using both VEPro v7, 6.
"VE PRO 6 and VE PRO 7 will not connect. You will need to purchase additional licenses to upgrade your other VE PRO 6 licenses as well."

He also talk about possible discount for multiple licenses :
"Regarding multiple licenses: I'm sure you understand that we can't answer individual quantity discount requests in a public forum. With previous upgrades, different combinations of license amounts, there are simply many parameters to consider."
I send a request few days before, I'm still waiting VSL answer ...


----------



## T-LeffoH

Olivier1024 said:


> Paul from Vienna confirm it's impossible on using both VEPro v7, 6.
> "VE PRO 6 and VE PRO 7 will not connect. You will need to purchase additional licenses to upgrade your other VE PRO 6 licenses as well."
> 
> He also talk about possible discount for multiple licenses :
> "Regarding multiple licenses: I'm sure you understand that we can't answer individual quantity discount requests in a public forum. With previous upgrades, different combinations of license amounts, there are simply many parameters to consider."
> I send a request few days before, I'm still waiting VSL answer ...



Thanks for sharing what Paul confirmed.

Hopefully they'll consider discount pricing for increasing additional license purchases. I think it's a a reasonable idea although it might undercut their own business in doing so. If users can purchase a handful of licenses for a really good rate they might just buy numerous licenses and forego purchasing the Protection Plan for example (I won't ever jump on their Protection Plan model anyway).


----------



## chrisr

Olivier1024 said:


> Paul from Vienna confirm it's impossible on using both VEPro v7, 6.
> "VE PRO 6 and VE PRO 7 will not connect.".



I saw that post from Paul, but I'm not sure it completely rules out the possibility of what @T-LeffoH was asking about. He's not proposing to link a v6 to a v7... but just to use them in parallel I believe?


----------



## T-LeffoH

chrisr said:


> I saw that post from Paul, but I'm not sure it completely rules out the possibility of what @T-LeffoH was asking about. He's not proposing to link a v6 to a v7... but just to use them in parallel I believe?



I think you're right. I did just take some time to look at Paul's posts and it doesn't seem clear to me.

Maybe someone who's been both a v5 and v6 user can clarify or confirm? Are both v5 and v6 VEPro options available in DAW at the same time? Or does upgrading and installing v6 supersede and erase v5 components from the system? I'm speculating but it seems the limitation I've described would be dependent on whether different VEPro version plugins can exist on the DAW at the same time.


----------



## artmanjam

T-LeffoH said:


> Are both v5 and v6 VEPro options available in DAW at the same time?
> Or does upgrading and installing v6 supersede and erase v5 components from the system?



1st question: definitely NO. You can't even have VEpro communicate if you don't ever have the same 'update' of the same version (let's say 6) of the software installed on both computers while using a slave one.

2nd question: I guess YES, I think installing 6 uninstalls 5 (to be verified).


----------



## T-LeffoH

artmanjam said:


> 1st question: definitely NO. You can't even have VEpro communicate if you don't ever have the same 'update' of the same version (let's say 6) of the software installed on both computers while using a slave one.
> 
> 2nd question: I guess YES, I think installing 6 uninstalls 5 (to be verified).



So I guess it's an all-or-nothing upgrade? Hypothetically, if you have 10 VEPro slaves you can't run 1 as v7 and 9 as v6, you have to upgrade all of them to v7 or keep all of them at v6.


----------



## chrisr

artmanjam said:


> 2nd question: I guess YES, I think installing 6 uninstalls 5 (to be verified).



I'm not quite sure on this either - but my understanding was that this was true of v5/v6 uptate (v6 licences would replace v5) but in fact v7 does not replace your v5/6 licences but sits alongside them. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere on the VSL forum in the last few days - apologies if I'm wrong...


----------



## T-LeffoH

chrisr said:


> I'm not quite sure on this either - but my understanding was that this was true of v5/v6 uptate (v6 licences would replace v5) but in fact v7 does not replace your v5/6 licences but sits alongside them. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere on the VSL forum in the last few days - apologies if I'm wrong...



I think a reply on the forum about this was more with respect to licensing relative to an individual's Vienna account and not necessarily with respect to the underlying software functionality or capability.

I did purchase an upgrade license and got an email with an activation code, but I'm not sure what that means with respect to underlying operation of previous licenses.

I'll post this on the Vienna forums to hopefully get confirmation from Paul.


----------



## artmanjam

T-LeffoH said:


> I think a reply on the forum about this was more with respect to licensing relative to an individual's Vienna account and not necessarily with respect to the underlying software functionality or capability.
> 
> I did purchase an upgrade license and got an email with an activation code, but I'm not sure what that means with respect to underlying operation of previous licenses.



Yes, I think so. Having a v7 license doesn't 'kill' your v6/v5 licenses. If ever you wish to go back to, let's say VE Pro5 re-installation and use, you can.

Your activation code is used for the e-Licenser which will add your upgrade version to the selected i-Licenser key. The day you install it it will be recognized by the e-Licenser. To have an exemple, here is what my e-Licenser displays, all VE Pro versions. It doesn't mean I can have them run all.






Actually, I only have ONE 'Vienna Ensemble Pro.exe' in my computer. That's why I guess v5 has been uninstalled when installing v6.

BTW, we can't do anything but expectations and hypothesis regarding the zero-info announcements...


----------



## Ben

The VEPro 7 license is different. You'll get an additional entry for it, not a Collection License as shown in the screenshot above. So you should even be able to move it on a different eLicenser then the old versions.


----------



## storyteller

Speaking strictly from the OSX side of things, if they develop the server to use "the same sandbox" as VEPro 6, then being able to run VEPro6 & Vepro7 side-by-side becomes a question of their file dependencies within the sandbox. Likely, you'd only be able to run one due to this. If they use separate sandboxes (e.g. install to a separate folder structure in Applications or have a separate .app bundle), then they might very well be able to be run side-by-side. It is all going to boil down to whether they intentionally develop the server/plugins to only be able to run one version at a time.

I wouldn't get your hopes up though. If they are charging for an upgrade before details come out and with their squeeze tactics, then they will likely be trying to push users to VEPro 7 and not allow for multiple versions of VEPro to coexist. Their modus operandi seems to get money by any means possible, which would mean deprecating old versions and force-upgrading.

On another note, if it was me and I was having cash flow problems, I might offer VEPro 7 to the community with full disclosure of the financial situation. I wouldn't make VEPro 7 a required upgrade, but rather one that could run side-by-side. That way users wouldn't be forced to upgrade, but could do so as a gesture of support to one of the premier pillars of the VI community. It would be a win-win for everyone involved.

I'm just speculating though...


----------



## Dewdman42

I think the vep installer will replace the v6 plugins with v7 plugins by the same name. 

I do not see any point or value to keeping your v6 licenses around as you cannot use v6 and v7 at the same time. Though you can always uninstall your crippled v7 single license and reinstall v6 to get multi machines back with those still on the dongle


----------



## Soundhound

I hope they're not having financial problems. I need my VEP to be able to keep using my ancient 2012 iMac/2012 Mac mini. I run out of CPU very quickly without it. If VEP goes away I'll have to decide between a 2013 Mac Pro and a 2018 Mac mini right away, and I'm hoping to remain paralyzed by indecision indefinitely.


----------



## LinusW

C-Wave said:


> Paul said in the VSL forum that no it can't.


Ok, thanks! I am not convinced to purchase two additional licenses before we even know what's new in v7.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Well VE Pro 6 works well enough for me. It will be interesting to see how long it will take for some details on v7 to be released.


----------



## steveo42

So I am a total noob with VE Pro but just bought into it at the sale price. So what constitutes a "license" and how many do I get with the stock program? Also where does the Steinberg key have to be located? On the server PC or the client PC or doesn't it matter? Sorry for the basic questions. I'm heading to YouTube and my Groove 3 account to find some beginner videos.. Thanks!


----------



## Ben

steveo42 said:


> So I am a total noob with VE Pro but just bought into it at the sale price. So what constitutes a "license" and how many do I get with the stock program? Also where does the Steinberg key have to be located? On the server PC or the client PC or doesn't it matter? Sorry for the basic questions. I'm heading to YouTube and my Groove 3 account to find some beginner videos.. Thanks!


One license = One Slave with how many instances you like (also you can run it on your DAW -> single computer setup).
The eLicneser must be connected to the slave-computer.


----------



## kitekrazy

storyteller said:


> Speaking strictly from the OSX side of things, if they develop the server to use "the same sandbox" as VEPro 6, then being able to run VEPro6 & Vepro7 side-by-side becomes a question of their file dependencies within the sandbox. Likely, you'd only be able to run one due to this. If they use separate sandboxes (e.g. install to a separate folder structure in Applications or have a separate .app bundle), then they might very well be able to be run side-by-side. It is all going to boil down to whether they intentionally develop the server/plugins to only be able to run one version at a time.
> 
> I wouldn't get your hopes up though. If they are charging for an upgrade before details come out and with their squeeze tactics, then they will likely be trying to push users to VEPro 7 and not allow for multiple versions of VEPro to coexist. Their modus operandi seems to get money by any means possible, which would mean deprecating old versions and force-upgrading.
> 
> On another note, if it was me and I was having cash flow problems, I might offer VEPro 7 to the community with full disclosure of the financial situation. I wouldn't make VEPro 7 a required upgrade, but rather one that could run side-by-side. That way users wouldn't be forced to upgrade, but could do so as a gesture of support to one of the premier pillars of the VI community. It would be a win-win for everyone involved.
> 
> I'm just speculating though...



Their dongle replacement is just a shit policy no matter how it's spun. That's the first thing I mention to anyone considering VSL and it turns them away. It's sad really since VSL has opened the door to get their products piece by piece. I can see those who have a high investment in their libraries who need this but I may have about $500 invested and I'm not sure I want to pay the amount just to protect them from a faulty eLicenser. There is no certainty in the hardware world. A new one could crap out in 3 years while a 5 year old one is still solid. More developers who use iLok and Pace is much more friendlier to deal with.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Guy Rowland said:


> The situation was - pre release discount, no info on VE Pro 7 but it will come before the discount ends, so nothing to lose by just waiting.


^^^Putting the taikos aside for a moment, I think Guy Rowland's above comment will be true.

I wrote to VSL and they replied that they are still testing to confirm the features before announcing.

They confirmed that intro price will remain unchanged as they announce, and at least until it is released (and possibly it will remain on intro price for a period after release).


----------



## NYC Composer

VEP has allowed me to keep working with my ancient Mac Pro and almost as ancient Mini slave while I wait for the Holy Grail from Apple, so if I find out VSL is in financial trouble I’ll definitely upgrade to 7. Ditto if it increases CPU efficiency even more. 

Otherwise, meh.


----------



## steveo42

Ben said:


> One license = One Slave with how many instances you like (also you can run it on your DAW -> single computer setup).
> The eLicneser must be connected to the slave-computer.



Thank you Ben. That answers my questions!
Take care!


----------



## Olivier1024

Olivier1024 said:


> He also talk about possible discount for multiple licenses :
> "Regarding multiple licenses: I'm sure you understand that we can't answer individual quantity discount requests in a public forum. With previous upgrades, different combinations of license amounts, there are simply many parameters to consider."
> I send a request few days before, I'm still waiting VSL answer ...



I got the answer from VSL and get a discount. It's only available if you own 4 or more VEP Pro licences .

My advice if you own (and want to upgrade) 4 licences or more than 4 licences, ask VSL Sales <[email protected]> to get a discount.


----------



## Pablocrespo

So. If you would like to upgrade and keep your 3 licenses you are stuck paying the same that you payed the first time you bought it.

I tried very hard to get them to respond our concerns in their forum but got silence. It sure looks more and more like a money grab, it would seem that buying synchron stage was a dangerous move financially speaking.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Olivier1024 said:


> I got the answer from VSL and get a discount. It's only available if you own 4 or more VEP Pro licences .
> 
> My advice if you own (and want to upgrade) 4 licences or more than 4 licences, ask VSL Sales <[email protected]> to get a discount.


Thanks - helpful - email off to them.


----------



## Dewdman42

so discount for new users that only need one license. Discount for pros with large VEP networks...I didn't realize many people were even still doing that... But the hobbyist in the middle that is probably repurposing one or two old machines they have laying around as VEP servers to make some music....no love.


----------



## Dewdman42

Hmmmm

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t41803-VEP6-updates-with-more-than-one-VEP5-license#post250836


----------



## C-Wave

Dewdman42 said:


> Hmmmm
> 
> https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t41803-VEP6-updates-with-more-than-one-VEP5-license#post250836


You realise of course that this is from 2016, right?


----------



## Dewdman42

Exactly!


----------



## JT3_Jon

Sorry I haven't kept up on this thread, but if you upgrade a single license from VEpro 6 to 7, can you still use the remaining 2 VE pro 6 licenses or do you loose them somehow?


----------



## Ben

JT3_Jon said:


> Sorry I haven't kept up on this thread, but if you upgrade a single license from VEpro 6 to 7, can you still use the remaining 2 VE pro 6 licenses or do you loose them somehow?


You can use even all three because you get a new separat license entry in the eLicenser.
VEP 6 and 7 won't be able to connect to each other, but it is still unclear if they will work side by side.


----------



## artmanjam

Ben said:


> You can se even all three because you get a new separat license entry in the eLicenser.
> VEP 6 and 7 won't be able to connect to each other, but ot is still unclear if they will work side by side.


To clarify a bit: you won't lose your v6 licenses, it's the way it always worked. I still have my useless v4 & v5 licenses here. License is one thing, installing/working is another.

That said, if it works like it always did you won't be able to have both versions installed on one computer nore they won't communicate indeed. To make it clear, VEPro 4, 5 or 6 can't coexist (understand 'be installed') together on the same computer. As a reminder, the very same versions (upgrades AND updates) have to be installed on master/slave computers so as to communicate.

Furthermore, remember we can't open a v6 saved project in v5. It means that you can go backwards from 7 to 6 and work with your 3 licenses then by uninstall/reinstall process but nothing guarantees you'll be able to open v7 project in v6.


----------



## Lee Blaske

Still not sure if I'll be using VEPro much at all if the next Mac Pro ever comes out, but I went over and checked out how much the upgrade and an additional license was going to be at Best Service, then after doing all the calculations, adding my best coins, etc., etc., it wasn't going to be that much, so I went ahead and ordered it. Should have moved on this sooner, though, to have the taiko. What am I going to do without that?? 

I must admit that with these new developments from VSL (VEPro 7, Synchron), whatever OT is up to, whatever Spitfire is up to, the whole NKS thing, and how my life might be changed by going to one machine only with a new Mac Pro, I'm getting REALLY demoralized trying to figure out what my work-flow show be. I've also got MIR, and I never really exploited that the way I should. With VSL, I feel I'm floating in space between old ways of doing things, and new ways of doing things. Still haven't really warmed up to Synchron. I feel like all these things are pulling me in different directions, and I don't want greater and greater complexity. I don't want to be playing multi-dimensional chess all the time. And then, there's always the nagging worry of what to do when I need to access an old session. And the whole PITA when I do updates and everything has to validate everything else (several versions of VEPro, Logic, Machine, Komplete Kontrol, Maschine, Dorico and Finale). Updates often mean that everything needs to check everything else out. And the validation dance always seems to take place when I'm hoping to get some actual work done.

ARGH!!!! I wish I'd never been born! (Well, maybe it's not quite that bad, but it's getting close.  )


----------



## NYC Composer

@Lee Blaske:

As one of the greater proponents of the “steady state” style of thinking, I’m struggling along with my 2008 Mac Pro and a 2012 Mini slave. I haven’t upgraded Cubase since 2011-I’m on 6.02. In other words, I’m an industry nightmare. 

Oh, I buy some libraries and do an upgrade here and there, but I hate the whole process of downloading, installing, authorizing, going through a zillion presets, blah blah blah. I just want to play and write. It’s really all I’ve wanted to to for over 50 years, and I find all of the tech stuff distracting and disheartening.

At this point in my “career”, I’m just writing library tracks, doing an occasional little scoring job, arranging for a few clients and writing to please myself. If I was working at a higher and more demanding level with tight deadlines, I’d buy a big system, every new library that came out and pay an assistant or two to wrangle the whole mess, but it’s just not necessary for where I’m at, which I find to be a vast relief.

Sure, I’ll be dragged upwards at some point. I’m stopped out at El Capitan unless I start hacking my Mac Pro.my plan is to hold out as long as possible. It’s been going okay so far.


----------



## kitekrazy

NYC Composer said:


> @Lee Blaske:
> 
> As one of the greater proponents of the “steady state” style of thinking, I’m struggling along with my 2008 Mac Pro and a 2012 Mini slave. I haven’t upgraded Cubase since 2011-I’m on 6.02. In other words, I’m an industry nightmare.
> 
> Oh, I buy some libraries and do an upgrade here and there, but I hate the whole process of downloading, installing, authorizing, going through a zillion presets, blah blah blah. I just want to play and write. It’s really all I’ve wanted to to for over 50 years, and I find all of the tech stuff distracting and disheartening.
> 
> At this point in my “career”, I’m just writing library tracks, doing an occasional little scoring job, arranging for a few clients and writing to please myself. If I was working at a higher and more demanding level with tight deadlines, I’d buy a big system, every new library that came out and pay an assistant or two to wrangle the whole mess, but it’s just not necessary for where I’m at, which I find to be a vast relief.
> 
> Sure, I’ll be dragged upwards at some point. I’m stopped out at El Capitan unless I start hacking my Mac Pro.my plan is to hold out as long as possible. It’s been going okay so far.



Some of the most productive people are in the same boat.


----------



## NYC Composer

I’m not selling the idea. I try to present it as another way of thinking.


----------



## kitekrazy

Lee Blaske said:


> Still not sure if I'll be using VEPro much at all if the next Mac Pro ever comes out, but I went over and checked out how much the upgrade and an additional license was going to be at Best Service, then after doing all the calculations, adding my best coins, etc., etc., it wasn't going to be that much, so I went ahead and ordered it. Should have moved on this sooner, though, to have the taiko. What am I going to do without that??
> 
> I must admit that with these new developments from VSL (VEPro 7, Synchron), whatever OT is up to, whatever Spitfire is up to, the whole NKS thing, and how my life might be changed by going to one machine only with a new Mac Pro, I'm getting REALLY demoralized trying to figure out what my work-flow show be. I've also got MIR, and I never really exploited that the way I should. With VSL, I feel I'm floating in space between old ways of doing things, and new ways of doing things. Still haven't really warmed up to Synchron. I feel like all these things are pulling me in different directions, and I don't want greater and greater complexity. I don't want to be playing multi-dimensional chess all the time. And then, there's always the nagging worry of what to do when I need to access an old session. And the whole PITA when I do updates and everything has to validate everything else (several versions of VEPro, Logic, Machine, Komplete Kontrol, Maschine, Dorico and Finale). Updates often mean that everything needs to check everything else out. And the validation dance always seems to take place when I'm hoping to get some actual work done.
> 
> ARGH!!!! I wish I'd never been born! (Well, maybe it's not quite that bad, but it's getting close.  )



I just might use this with softsynths that use some resource hungry patches.


----------



## artmanjam

NYC Composer said:


> @Lee Blaske:
> I hate the whole process of downloading, installing, authorizing, going through a zillion presets, blah blah blah. I just want to play and write. It’s really all I’ve wanted to to for over 50 years, and I find all of the tech stuff distracting and disheartening.



I understand what you're saying. Speaking for myself I try to have my setup quite up to date. I left Mac world a long time ago for several reasons: more freedom (it can have a time cost) and avoid to be obliged to some change or I can't update this or that. I don't go the automatic softwares upgrade anymore, i think twice or more about before going to it. Do I really 'need' it?

I recovered some lost envy and motivation with going to some vintage (or reedition) hardware and tape recorder. Computer display is a vampire for the ears. I just got a Lex 300L last week. I never found software reverbs convincing albeit I use some which work great. The feeling using the Lex is uncomparable. Pure pleasure. I quite never use software compressors as well. Moving 2 or 3 buttons on a hardware comp with closed eyes is another world.

In a way I like to go back to longer time and it gives me some balance between the upgrade war and some serenity on the other part.


----------



## garyhiebner

So when is VEPro7 gonna finally be available? I've put my order in but now I'm getting impatient


----------



## Guy Rowland

garyhiebner said:


> So when is VEPro7 gonna finally be available? I've put my order in but now I'm getting impatient



They've given no word as to a time frame. Could be tomorrow, could be next year. My rune-reading says it is not imminent, it sounds to me like they're still building it and the pre-order - especially with the Taiko bung - was a slightly desperate cashflow exercise. The troubling thing for me is they'd likely have generated more cash if they'd included a proper preview of VE Pro 7. For some reason they did not. Why else would they withhold information if there wasn't a chance that features might now work out and have to be dropped? Me thinks Epic Orchestra 2.0 was all ready to go some good time before VE Pro will be, and they needed the cash.

Oh well. Until they release more concrete info, there's little more to say at the moment.


----------



## artmanjam

Guy Rowland said:


> Could be tomorrow, could be next year. My rune-reading says it is not imminent, it sounds to me like they're still building it. Why else would they withhold information if there wasn't a chance that features might now work out and have to be dropped? Until they release more concrete info, there's little more to say at the moment.



This is a good sum up about the current situation and the lack of real expectations for now...


----------



## Soundhound

Sorry if this has been asked and answered here previously. Do we know when the intro pricing for upgrading from 6 to 7 is going to end?


----------



## Ben

Soundhound said:


> Sorry if this has been asked and answered here previously. Do we know when the intro pricing for upgrading from 6 to 7 is going to end?


Yes: At least after all features are revealed.


----------



## Soundhound

Thanks Ben! 



Ben said:


> Yes: At least after all features are revealed.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Oh well, back to the real world. And check back here for VEP 7 around summer time


----------



## garyhiebner

Guy Rowland said:


> They've given no word as to a time frame. Could be tomorrow, could be next year. My rune-reading says it is not imminent, it sounds to me like they're still building it and the pre-order - especially with the Taiko bung - was a slightly desperate cashflow exercise. The troubling thing for me is they'd likely have generated more cash if they'd included a proper preview of VE Pro 7. For some reason they did not. Why else would they withhold information if there wasn't a chance that features might now work out and have to be dropped? Me thinks Epic Orchestra 2.0 was all ready to go some good time before VE Pro will be, and they needed the cash.
> 
> Oh well. Until they release more concrete info, there's little more to say at the moment.



So we their guinea-pigs, and we are funding their development of VEPro7? Scary thought. Still excited for it, and am holding thumbs for AU3 support!


----------



## LinusW

Olivier1024 said:


> Paul from Vienna confirm it's impossible on using both VEPro v7, 6.
> "VE PRO 6 and VE PRO 7 will not connect. You will need to purchase additional licenses to upgrade your other VE PRO 6 licenses as well."


Oh well, so I got the upgrades for license #2 and #3 now after all.


----------



## kitekrazy

Guy Rowland said:


> They've given no word as to a time frame. *Could be tomorrow, could be next year.* My rune-reading says it is not imminent, it sounds to me like they're still building it and the pre-order - especially with the Taiko bung - was a slightly desperate cashflow exercise. The troubling thing for me is they'd likely have generated more cash if they'd included a proper preview of VE Pro 7. For some reason they did not. Why else would they withhold information if there wasn't a chance that features might now work out and have to be dropped? Me thinks Epic Orchestra 2.0 was all ready to go some good time before VE Pro will be, and they needed the cash.
> 
> Oh well. Until they release more concrete info, there's little more to say at the moment.



Reminds me of Gigastudio.


----------



## Dracarys

They haven't even ironed out the bugs in VE6. CPU meter reads 0, and folder organization on Windows is like Mac, but worse.


----------



## Ashermusic

Dracarys said:


> They haven't even ironed out the bugs in VE6. CPU meter reads 0, and folder organization on Windows is like Mac, but worse.



There is no bug free software: Not Ve Pro; not Logic Pro; not Cubase; not Reaper; not Kontakt; not Play; etc. 

VE Pro 6 has been one of the least buggy pieces of software I have used on both Mac and Windows.


----------



## Dracarys

Ashermusic said:


> There is no bug free software: Not Ve Pro; not Logic Pro; not Cubase; not Reaper; not Kontakt; not Play; etc.
> 
> VE Pro 6 has been one of the least buggy pieces of software I have used on both Mac and Windows.




My point is the most basic of bug's in V6 are not fixed. Hopefully they are in 7.


----------



## Ashermusic

Dracarys said:


> My point is the most basic of bug's in V6 are not fixed. Hopefully they are in 7.



And my point is, that is not my experience with it.


----------



## Dracarys

Ashermusic said:


> And my point is, that is not my experience with it.



That's because you're using Mac, and your folders are organized by vendor instead of having neat folders for EQ's, Verbs, Compressors, etc. It is a huge inconvenience trying to memorize where your single EQ is unless you buy entire packages, i.e., fabfilter bundle.


----------



## Ashermusic

Dracarys said:


> That's because you're using Mac, and your folders are organized by vendor instead of having neat folders for EQ's, Verbs, Compressors, etc. It is a huge inconvenience trying to memorize where your single EQ is unless you buy entire packages, i.e., fabfilter bundle.



Well perhaps that's because I use those plugins in my DAW, not directly in VE Pro. Which I recommend except for MIR.


----------



## Dracarys

Ashermusic said:


> Well perhaps that's because I use those plugins in my DAW, not directly in VE Pro. Which I recommend except for MIR.



I thought about that but sessions are too large so I'd have to disable many tracks; I prefer mixing on the fly.


----------



## givemenoughrope

I don’t need 73 GB of samples and VE Pro6 works fine.


----------



## Ashermusic

Dracarys said:


> I thought about that but sessions are too large so I'd have to disable many tracks; I prefer mixing on the fly.



I recommend what guys like myself, Peter Schwartz, and George Leger III and l all concluded after trying it every which way from Sunday early on way back with VE Pro 4.And in my experience, doing things that way VE Pro is relatively non-buggy compared to the popular DAWS.

But I am not the workflow police. You are free to do as you like. I only spoke up to counter what I think is an unfair assessment of it.


----------



## Dracarys

Yes VE6 works fine and it was a pretty basic, innocuous assessment. If Cubase 10's CPU meter was not active, and its folders were all of a sudden scattered like Mac OS, then Cubase 11 was announced shortly after, I would find that weird, and would hope that these basic issues are resolved in the next upgrade.

Simple stuff. No need to over think my statement.


----------



## Ashermusic

Dracarys said:


> Yes VE6 works fine and it was a pretty basic, innocuous assessment. If Cubase 10's CPU meter was not active, and its folders were all of a sudden scattered like Mac OS, then Cubase 11 was announced shortly after, I would find that weird, and would hope that these basic issues are resolved in the next upgrade.
> 
> Simple stuff. Stop over thinking my statement.



I wouldn’t have to if maybe you thought a bit more before you posted it. There was nothing innocuous about it in my view but people can decide now.


----------



## Dracarys

Ashermusic said:


> I wouldn’t have to if maybe you thought a bit more before you posted it. There was nothing innocuous about it in my view but people can decide now.



Well it definitely wasn't malicious. You're just that personality type, and now you're even seeking external validation. Sorry if my phraseology offended you. I'll be upgrading to VE7 and enjoying/recommending their products as always.

Godspeed and good fortune.


----------



## Ashermusic

Dracarys said:


> Well it definitely wasn't malicious. You're just that personality type, and now you're even seeking external validation. Sorry if my phraseology offended you. I'll be upgrading to VE7 and enjoying/recommending their products as always.
> 
> Godspeed and good fortune.



I did not accuse you of malice or anything else other than making a statement that gave what I considered a false impression that I wanted to rebut. It isn't personal against you and nothing you wrote offended me personally. I just deemed it inaccurate and unfair and said so because I don't want potential users to think it is unusually buggy and not buy it. Because it isn't.

I need no external validation. People pay me for my help and advice but sometimes people disagree with me, sometimes I am proven wrong and change my mind, and that is all fine.


----------



## C-Wave

From VSL Forum:

Hello everybody, 

First of all: Thanks for all your input and postings here. We are happy to see that so many of you feel so passionately about this software, and we are doing our very best to justify your support and meet your expectations. 

You probably know that Vienna Ensemble Pro development is always a very involved process, as we not only have to deal with a myriad of plug-ins and their “specialities” but also with specific solutions for the various DAWs out there. What looks the same from the outside can be VERY different from a technical perspective and calls for a dedicated solutions (which again needs to LOOK the same from the user’s perspective). 

To use my favorite euphemism I learned from our developers: It can be tricky 

STATUS QUO: 
We are now in the beta stage for VE PRO 7, to make sure that we have not missed any perspective and also to incorporate input and ideas from our beta team, with real-world situations, stress-tests and compatibility tests, and I am confident that we are on a great path to have VE Pro 7 ready for you within the next weeks.

I am not posting a release date but we are aiming at a release in the last week of march, and we will also post updates of confirmed features as we get further ahead in beta-testing. 



*On a personal note:* What worries me most in this thread is that there are so many “in-fights” about who is right on a topic you have little to no information about. That lack of information is our fault, as we want to publish this information only when it’s 100% confirmed. I’m just saying that it’s not a pleasure to watch and we are sorry about all the anger this has caused. 

I know that you will get along perfectly fine in the real world, as you are clearly all passionate musicians. 

In this spirit: We are all looking forward to the time when we can finally announce more features, and we hope that Epic Orchestra 2.0 helps to bridge the time until we get there. 

All the best from Vienna, 
Paul and the VSL Team


----------



## DANIELE

Thank you for the update Paul. Well, for me, what I'm more concerned about is to buy something without knowing anything about it...but I could understand what are you saying.


----------



## DaddyO

C-Wave, thanks for the heads up. I hadn't seen that post by Paul. Just looked it up on the VSL forum. It is good to read that there is still some optimism for a release in weeks instead of months.


----------



## JEPA

i've pre-ordered it already


----------



## DS_Joost

C-Wave said:


> From VSL Forum:
> 
> Hello everybody,
> 
> First of all: Thanks for all your input and postings here. We are happy to see that so many of you feel so passionately about this software, and we are doing our very best to justify your support and meet your expectations.
> 
> You probably know that Vienna Ensemble Pro development is always a very involved process, as we not only have to deal with a myriad of plug-ins and their “specialities” but also with specific solutions for the various DAWs out there. What looks the same from the outside can be VERY different from a technical perspective and calls for a dedicated solutions (which again needs to LOOK the same from the user’s perspective).
> 
> To use my favorite euphemism I learned from our developers: It can be tricky
> 
> STATUS QUO:
> We are now in the beta stage for VE PRO 7, to make sure that we have not missed any perspective and also to incorporate input and ideas from our beta team, with real-world situations, stress-tests and compatibility tests, and I am confident that we are on a great path to have VE Pro 7 ready for you within the next weeks.
> 
> I am not posting a release date but we are aiming at a release in the last week of march, and we will also post updates of confirmed features as we get further ahead in beta-testing.
> 
> 
> 
> *On a personal note:* What worries me most in this thread is that there are so many “in-fights” about who is right on a topic you have little to no information about. That lack of information is our fault, as we want to publish this information only when it’s 100% confirmed. I’m just saying that it’s not a pleasure to watch and we are sorry about all the anger this has caused.
> 
> I know that you will get along perfectly fine in the real world, as you are clearly all passionate musicians.
> 
> In this spirit: We are all looking forward to the time when we can finally announce more features, and we hope that Epic Orchestra 2.0 helps to bridge the time until we get there.
> 
> All the best from Vienna,
> Paul and the VSL Team



This is a very level headed response telling me absolutely nothing, and coming from a game industry background, sets a very bad precedent. Not that I don't believe VEPRO 7 won't be good, as I expect quality from Vienna. But these are professional products and should be treated as such in my opinion. Vienna are acting like a games company, and this is not good. We are not playing games here, we are using professional products in professional environments and I hate that this 'gamey', attitude is getting more and more prevalent in the sampling business. I get that marketing is important, but I hate the way this is going. I want a product anouncement with features, what I am buying into, etc.

I don't like this kinda business in professional products, at all. Spitfire, 8dio, and now Vienna (and others!) Are responsible for this. I think it is a shame. But that is just my opinion.

Edit: nothing against you, C-Wave


----------



## Guy Rowland

DS_Joost said:


> This is a very level headed response telling me absolutely nothing, and coming from a game industry background, sets a very bad precedent. Not that I don't believe VEPRO 7 won't be good, as I expect quality from Vienna. But these are professional products and should be treated as such in my opinion. Vienna are acting like a games company, and this is not good. We are not playing games here, we are using professional products in professional environments and I hate that this 'gamey', attitude is getting more and more prevalent in the sampling business. I get that marketing is important, but I hate the way this is going. I want a product anouncement with features, what I am buying into, etc.
> 
> I don't like this kinda business in professional products, at all. Spitfire, 8dio, and now Vienna (and others!) Are responsible for this. I think it is a shame. But that is just my opinion.



It's an interesting observation. I think it points to the reality that the industry around music-making is actually massively bigger than the market for actual music work. Looking back, I think when we started to get Hollywood-style trailers for libraries, the game was up.

Desperately hoping VE Pro 7 will have some substance when it comes down to it. The last week of March is actually next week, so if they're planning to release it then it doesn't give them much time to tell us all about these fantastic new features, does it?

Methinks I might not install 7.0.0, come what may. Could be a good one to wait for the first maintenance release.


----------



## DS_Joost

Guy Rowland said:


> It's an interesting observation. I think it points to the reality that the industry around music-making is actually massively bigger than the market for actual music work. Looking back, I think when we started to get Hollywood-style trailers for libraries, the game was up.
> 
> Desperately hoping VE Pro 7 will have some substance when it comes down to it. The last week of March is actually next week, so if they're planning to release it then it doesn't give them much time to tell us all about these fantastic new features, does it?
> 
> Methinks I might not install 7.0.0, come what may. Could be a good one to wait for the first maintenance release.



I don't even use Vepro! I used it once but found it way too cumbersome with respect to a disabled template in Cubase. But I am still interested whether they could pull me over but no, if no features are anounced, why the hell would I pull the trigger?


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

DS_Joost said:


> This is a very level headed response telling me absolutely nothing, and coming from a game industry background, sets a very bad precedent. Not that I don't believe VEPRO 7 won't be good, as I expect quality from Vienna. But these are professional products and should be treated as such in my opinion. Vienna are acting like a games company, and this is not good. We are not playing games here, we are using professional products in professional environments and I hate that this 'gamey', attitude is getting more and more prevalent in the sampling business. I get that marketing is important, but I hate the way this is going. I want a product anouncement with features, what I am buying into, etc.
> 
> I don't like this kinda business in professional products, at all. Spitfire, 8dio, and now Vienna (and others!) Are responsible for this. I think it is a shame. But that is just my opinion.
> 
> Edit: nothing against you, C-Wave


If I understand you correctly, I think you are assuming the worst about their motives. Like Vienna is like a game company, floating and selling a game before they've finished it. I don't see it that way. I believe they just wanted to give non-users of VE Pro the opportunity to buy it at a discount. As I was considering purchasing the version with 3 licenses--which I don't need--I appreciated the opportunity to be notified in advance about their plans and given the chance to buy VE Pro at a lower price. I would not have been happy if I spent much more and found out afterwards. 

Where they can legitimately be criticized is for not communicating as well as they could.


----------



## Wunderhorn

I don't think there is much to worry here at this point.

All that happened was an announcement that miscalculated the target audience. No feature announcement but new click/buy-bait content isn't making us jump up and down. VE-Pro has been a good piece of software that saved our asses while big DAWs are still limited in their ability to handle loads of sound libraries. Its next installment will probably be most welcome when it's here.


----------



## jon wayne

I don’t think a developer owes me anything. I have several companies that are creating significant upgrades for free. I get impatient waiting sometimes, but they don’t owe me anything. I like the product, I buy it. I am happy there are people , a lot smarter than me that are working on good products. Keeps me making music.


----------



## kitekrazy

Was it Gigastudio 3 or 4 that always failed the release date?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

C-Wave said:


> From VSL Forum:
> 
> Hello everybody,
> 
> First of all: Thanks for all your input and postings here. We are happy to see that so many of you feel so passionately about this software, and we are doing our very best to justify your support and meet your expectations.
> 
> You probably know that Vienna Ensemble Pro development is always a very involved process, as we not only have to deal with a myriad of plug-ins and their “specialities” but also with specific solutions for the various DAWs out there. What looks the same from the outside can be VERY different from a technical perspective and calls for a dedicated solutions (which again needs to LOOK the same from the user’s perspective).
> 
> To use my favorite euphemism I learned from our developers: It can be tricky
> 
> STATUS QUO:
> We are now in the beta stage for VE PRO 7, to make sure that we have not missed any perspective and also to incorporate input and ideas from our beta team, with real-world situations, stress-tests and compatibility tests, and I am confident that we are on a great path to have VE Pro 7 ready for you within the next weeks.
> 
> I am not posting a release date but we are aiming at a release in the last week of march, and we will also post updates of confirmed features as we get further ahead in beta-testing.
> 
> 
> 
> *On a personal note:* What worries me most in this thread is that there are so many “in-fights” about who is right on a topic you have little to no information about. That lack of information is our fault, as we want to publish this information only when it’s 100% confirmed. I’m just saying that it’s not a pleasure to watch and we are sorry about all the anger this has caused.
> 
> I know that you will get along perfectly fine in the real world, as you are clearly all passionate musicians.
> 
> In this spirit: We are all looking forward to the time when we can finally announce more features, and we hope that Epic Orchestra 2.0 helps to bridge the time until we get there.
> 
> All the best from Vienna,
> Paul and the VSL Team


Reading that, I realise I may have overreacted a little (fortunately internally, not online though) 

We can all go back to being friends again in May ... or not


----------



## gsilbers

hopefully the AU/logic version will overcome that 16 channel limitation.


----------



## Ashermusic

gsilbers said:


> hopefully the AU/logic version will overcome that 16 channel limitation.



I don't give a large rodent's hiney if we ever get AU 3. ArtZ ID has rendered it totally superfluous for me.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Oh come on, Jay, not even a capybara hiney? Or a beaver hiney?


----------



## Ben

More information on whats new and approved are available: https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Software/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro
("Many more features!" is still on the page, so maybe we'll get even more  )


----------



## benmrx

Disable instances and folders.... hooray! Curious to get a better sense of the new automation as well.


----------



## artomatic

Interface and resource improvements, faster saving times, added fx plugins, etc.
I can go for that!


----------



## Manaberry

artomatic said:


> Interface and resource improvements, faster saving times, added fx plugins, etc.
> I can go for that!



Me too!


----------



## C-Wave

Same parameter names between daw and ve pro 7..”Click “Learn” and quickly identify the corresponding parameter in your sequencer, with its *identical parameter name and values*.”

question: can i enable / disble same midi channel in ve pro 7 from within my daw? Always wanted that.. it can save a lot of traveling time back and forth.


----------



## Ben

C-Wave said:


> question: can i enable / disble same midi channel in ve pro 7 from within my daw? Always wanted that.. it can save a lot of traveling time back and forth.


I hope I got your question right: Yes, you can enable/disable Channels via parameter / MIDI CC.


----------



## jononotbono

benmrx said:


> Disable instances and folders.... hooray!



Marvellous!


----------



## rrichard63

Among other things, this announcement might indicate that they are a step closer to deciding on a release date.


----------



## Guy Rowland

rrichard63 said:


> Among other things, this announcement might indicate that they are a step closer to deciding on a release date.



From Paul Kopf on the VSL forum:



> Beta-testing is going well, and we’re doing our best to make this version the most stable and comfortable .0 version we have every released. It’s also looking good for macOS 10.10 support.
> 
> Final steps in development will take some more time, and I’d like to thank you in advance for your patience and understanding.
> 
> Also, we’re hoping for a little miracle on the AU3 side of things. We’re quite close to making this a GREAT feature for all Logic users out there, and even if a new version of Logic is probably not released when VE Pro 7 is ready, we’re hoping for some crucial fixes that will make this feature work!
> 
> All the best from a busy busy busy Vienna,
> Paul


----------



## DANIELE

Ok, time to preorder!

So, do I have to buy this and a Steinbreg dongle to have it working and fully functional, am I right?

Thank you.


----------



## LinusW

DANIELE said:


> So, do I have to buy this and a Steinbreg dongle to have it working and fully functional, am I right?


One eLicenser "dongle" for each computer, yes.


----------



## DANIELE

LinusW said:


> One eLicenser "dongle" for each computer, yes.



Thank you, I'll use it only on one computer actually. I'm thinking that it could be very useful to build a more dynamic template.

Will the introductory price be available untile the release date?

EDIT

Another question: if I use the dongle with VEP 6 then can I use the same one for VEP 7 on the same computer?


----------



## Ben

DANIELE said:


> Thank you, I'll use it only on one computer actually. I'm thinking that it could be very useful to build a more dynamic template.


It is! Even if you just use it to prevent loading all samples again after your DAW/ Sibelius crashed 



DANIELE said:


> Will the introductory price be available untile the release date?


I think so. Normally VSL announces the final date before the price is going up. But my recommendation: Just buy it now (and start downloading the Epic Orchestra). It is definitely worth the price!



DANIELE said:


> Another question: if I use the dongle with VEP 6 then can I use the same one for VEP 7 on the same computer?


The same dongle works.Just put your VEP 7 license on it. But it is not possible to run VEP6 and VEP7 side by side, because the VEP7 installation replaces your VEP6!


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> It is! Even if you just use it to prevent loading all samples again after your DAW/ Sibelius crashed
> 
> 
> I think so. Normally VSL announces the final date before the price is going up. But my recommendation: Just buy it now (and start downloading the Epic Orchestra). It is definitely worth the price!
> 
> 
> The same dongle works.Just put your VEP 7 license on it. But it is not possible to run VEP6 and VEP7 side by side, because the VEP7 installation replaces your VEP6!



Thank you Ben, I'm just asking about VEP6 because I see that it is included with the purchase and maybe I could try to do some experiments with it while I'm waiting for VEP7.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I have got to admit that watching through the videos, these are some serius workflow improvements. The moitoring tools, new plug-ins and (something I have wait for ages on) the ability to disable single/plug-in formats HOORAY!

I am certinaly going to get it though, because I cannot imagine working without VE Pro.
The AU3 will be interesting to tinker with, though my humble beginnings of music life that bgan with Cubase caught up with me and brought me back to Cubase on Windows!

Aldo due to some hardware (CalDigit FASTA 6U3Pro) which Apple and Waves decided they were not going to support together anymore (shelled out £130 for). But that works fine with my Waves DigiGrid D on Windows


----------



## jneebz

Disable Folders and entire Instances...sold.


----------



## Audio Birdi

jneebz said:


> Disable Folders and entire Instances...sold.


I'm curious as to whether disabling instances will be faster than disabling single tracks / plugins (as I have one instance per Kontakt / PLAY instance). Either way, VSL has said that the overall disabling and enabling speeds have improved too! :D


----------



## Rob Elliott

While there seems to be some nice workflow improvements - I didn't hear any references to greater performance on streaming over the network (maybe a direct reference to those of use using Master + multi slaves.) For me that is the most important - not having to freeze midi tracks because the streaming occasionally chokes on more complex sequences. Did anyone else catch anything in this regard on the mini vids?


----------



## hdsmile

Rob Elliott said:


> While there seems to be some nice workflow improvements - I didn't hear any references to greater performance on streaming over the network (maybe a direct reference to those of use using Master + multi slaves.) For me that is the most important - not having to freeze midi tracks because the streaming occasionally chokes on more complex sequences. Did anyone else catch anything in this regard on the mini vids?



For me it is also very important part and I also did’t hear anything about that, so we need to wait until we can download it and try it ourselves, unfortunately there is no other way:(


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

Maybe this has already been asked, but is Komplete Kontrol supported within Vepro7?


----------



## Simon Ravn

I am sold! Even if AU3 doesn't happen, there seem to be so many great new things and improvements here!

EDIT: Oh AU3 is there in beta. Cool!


----------



## Akarin

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Maybe this has already been asked, but is Komplete Kontrol supported within Vepro7?



I don't think this will ever happen. Although technically possible, it would require a lot of work hand in hand between VSL and NI... ...and that's the part that I don't see happening.


----------



## Anders Wall

I wonder if we are allowed to resell them one by one and if so what the fee from Vienna might be?
I’ve got six instances but use only four. Wouldn’t mind selling the other two. That is, if it’s possible and if the transfer fee will be less than €50 per plugin.
/Anders


----------



## Oliver

a question to all one-pc-VEP users. Makes it really sense to buy VEP if you have one strong PC with 64gb?
Ich habe around 1800 tracks which works fine, but i freeze tracks all the time.
thx!


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

Oliver said:


> a question to all one-pc-VEP users. Makes it really sense to buy VEP if you have one strong PC with 64gb?
> Ich habe around 1800 tracks which works fine, but i freeze tracks all the time.
> thx!


The main benefit is still that you load your vepro templates once, and from your daw you switch to any track you work on without reloading all the instruments.

If that suits your workflow then yes, I would suggest using vepro.
Generally vepro is also ram & cpu friendly, but that may vary from each system and windows/osx


----------



## JeffvR

Silence-is-Golden said:


> The main benefit is still that you load your vepro templates once, and from your daw you switch to any track you work on without reloading all the instruments.
> 
> If that suits your workflow then yes, I would suggest using vepro.
> Generally vepro is also ram & cpu friendly, but that may vary from each system and windows/osx


Plus, your project file size remains small. A couple of MB instead of hundreds of MB's


----------



## hdsmile

Oliver said:


> a question to all one-pc-VEP users. Makes it really sense to buy VEP if you have one strong PC with 64gb?
> Ich habe around 1800 tracks which works fine, but i freeze tracks all the time.



yes of course, + if you have Slave-PC and use a lot of different libraries especially such a heavy lib. as Hollywood Platinum.. + some Plugins as VSL-MIRpro etc... then your DAW just feels free


----------



## Oliver

ok sold 
i think i must buy ...
anyway as an Austrian, it's a must


----------



## jononotbono

The instance vertical list is a very good idea. Wish NKS would be incorporated into VEPro and have no idea how much work that would be (if possible) but what's been revealed so far are easily good enough reasons why I will upgrade to v7. Going from 3 licenses to 1 license and having to then pay for another 2 just to have what I already have is a bit of a slag but such is life I guess.


----------



## hdsmile

jononotbono said:


> Going from 3 licenses to 1 license and having to then pay for another 2 just to have what I already have is a bit of a slag but such is life I guess.



+100%, is just pulling money:(


----------



## dgburns

AU3 is only 48 channels, so I guess that means 3 ports of 16 midi channels ? Good, I'm sure to get better, but not up to Cubase's 16 ports. Wonder why?

The vertical instance tab option- good start, now let's hope we can make it the size of a text list...

Disable/Enable channel should be HARDCODED and a pref set up to assign to a midi cc and/or keycombo. Don't know about all you guys, but having to setup the automation map for each instance is a time consuming affair for this particular feature.

Still feels hard to swallow the change in how you buy compared to the older get 3 instances. The update just got pushed down the 'must buy' list for me. 

But I applaud the continued effort to develop this app.


----------



## resonate

dgburns said:


> AU3 is only 48 channels, so I guess that means 3 ports of 16 midi channels ? Good, I'm sure to get better, but not up to Cubase's 16 ports. Wonder why?



*BETA AU3*
With up to *48 MIDI Ports (= 768 MIDI channels) *per instance, Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 is the first AU3 plug-in on the market. 

Not fully functional yet, workaround for testing and a first impression available.


----------



## Ashermusic

The beta totally screwed up Logic AU validation on my rig.


----------



## Saxer

Oliver said:


> a question to all one-pc-VEP users. Makes it really sense to buy VEP if you have one strong PC with 64gb?
> Ich habe around 1800 tracks which works fine, but i freeze tracks all the time.
> thx!


Yepp, makes sense.


----------



## Dewdman42

Very strange to hear that AU3 is 48 channels, where did you hear that?

Asher, are you able to test the AU3 because of being a private beta tester for vsl? Were you ever able to get it to work?


----------



## DANIELE

JeffvR said:


> Plus, your project file size remains small. A couple of MB instead of hundreds of MB's



This is another reason for which I bought it, my templates is 900 MB large and every new project I save is 900 MB that I add on my HDDs.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Dewdman42 said:


> Very strange to hear that AU3 is 48 channels, where did you hear that?
> 
> Asher, are you able to test the AU3 because of being a private beta tester for vsl? Were you ever able to get it to work?


I am certain this was a misunderstanding of the reference
Because I believe @dgburns meant *48 Ports* since that is what is stated in the forums on VSL


----------



## dgburns

@resonate oh crap, You're right, I read that wrong. That's actually awesome!
@Dewdman42 -I stand corrected.
@Shad0wLandsUK - I actually read 48 channels, much happier to know it's 48 ports.

That'll learn me from reading stuff when it's waaaay past my bedtime, lol


----------



## jgarciaserra

hdsmile said:


> +100%, is just pulling money:(



VEP6 update was 66€ with 3 licenses... today I must pay 75€ for just one?


----------



## hdsmile

yes that's it:(


----------



## jgarciaserra

hdsmile said:


> yes that's it:(



It seems that the price has multiplied three times for former users. Surely VSL knows that this fantastic software is essential for our jobs


----------



## Ben

jgarciaserra said:


> It seems that the price has multiplied three times for former users. Surely VSL knows that this fantastic software is essential for our jobs


That's incorrect. If you bougth the Update to VEP6 for 66€ you got an insane deal. I bought VEP6 Update with introduction discount for 128€. Yes, the update got more expensive for those who still need 3 licenses (75+45+45 = 165€), but that is still far from multiplied; and don't forget the included plugins from the Vienna Suite Pro!


----------



## Dewdman42

I dunno, but the way things are panning out, I do not see VEP7 as essential at the price they want for it. It has some nice additions, but hardly worth ~$150 for me (for two licenses). it may not be tripled, but its definitely a rather sharp increase in upgrade price if you want all three licenses that you bought originally to be updated. I paid $235 for VEP6 about a year ago. Yes it was on sale. But it was only a year ago and now they want nearly as much as that in order to stay current with the latest VEP7 improvements. This is not disputable. Its merely a matter of whether you can justify spending that much again for your own personal situation, which for me, I don't see enough improvement to warrant the cost.

Maybe if the update goes on a better sale later, but we shall see. If they get Apple to cooperate on AU3 and are able to bring multi port operation to LogicPro, that would be worth the cost sooner, that would be immediate buy for me. The FX look lovely but are really not interesting to me, I already have numerous third party solutions for that. The workflow improvements are definitely nice little improvements, but I see most of them as little improvements. Many people will upgrade because they always want the latest and they will do it blindly without even knowing what is coming, as can be observed here on this thread many people who upgraded just to support VSL, and that is a perfectly legitimate point of view, but so is the POV that the value has to be there to get my dollar.


----------



## EgM

Ben said:


> That's incorrect. If you bougth the Update to VEP6 for 66€ you got an insane deal. I bought VEP6 Update with introduction discount for 128€. Yes, the update got more expensive for those who still need 3 licenses (75+45+45 = 165€), but that is still far from multiplied; and don't forget the included plugins from the Vienna Suite Pro!



I also paid this. You’re aware you don’t have to buy everything from VSL directly right?


----------



## jgarciaserra

Ben said:


> That's incorrect. If you bougth the Update to VEP6 for 66€ you got an insane deal. I bought VEP6 Update with introduction discount for 128€. Yes, the update got more expensive for those who still need 3 licenses (75+45+45 = 165€), but that is still far from multiplied; and don't forget the included plugins from the Vienna Suite Pro!



Sure, I know that the value is high with the new fx plugins included... but I can show you the receipt of VEP6 update. I cant remember , but it would be a discount or special offer and it was 66€.
I love VEP but this time I will wait for a special discount in the future. Or maybe not!


----------



## JT3_Jon

dgburns said:


> Disable/Enable channel should be HARDCODED and a pref set up to assign to a midi cc and/or keycombo. Don't know about all you guys, but having to setup the automation map for each instance is a time consuming affair for this particular feature.



1000% agree! I don’t know why they can’t make it so any disabled channel that receives midi signal automatically enables. That way you could have your whole template disabled, and it will turn on and payback only what is needed / you are using. I mean, their own instruments do this (load with cells disabled and are automatically loaded when they receive midi) so the prescient is there in their own code. If you agree, please send them emails letting them know [email protected] I keep asking for this feature but feel like I’m yelling in the wind.


----------



## Guy Rowland

JT3_Jon said:


> 1000% agree! I don’t know why they can’t make it so any disabled channel that receives midi signal automatically enables. That way you could have your whole template disabled, and it will turn on and payback only what is needed / you are using. I mean, their own instruments do this (load with cells disabled and are automatically loaded when they receive midi) so the prescient is there in their own code. If you agree, please send them emails letting them know [email protected] I keep asking for this feature but feel like I’m yelling in the wind.



You and me both. I've been asking for years, and it can't be that hard. In fact they've done the hard bit - just add respond to midi note to enable, and they're done.

A general simplification of setting up wouldn't hurt too, looks like we may get some love there at least.


----------



## jononotbono

JT3_Jon said:


> 1000% agree! I don’t know why they can’t make it so any disabled channel that receives midi signal automatically enables. That way you could have your whole template disabled, and it will turn on and payback only what is needed / you are using. I mean, their own instruments do this (load with cells disabled and are automatically loaded when they receive midi) so the prescient is there in their own code. If you agree, please send them emails letting them know [email protected] I keep asking for this feature but feel like I’m yelling in the wind.



It would be a fantastic!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

JT3_Jon said:


> 1000% agree! I don’t know why they can’t make it so any disabled channel that receives midi signal automatically enables. That way you could have your whole template disabled, and it will turn on and payback only what is needed / you are using. I mean, their own instruments do this (load with cells disabled and are automatically loaded when they receive midi) so the prescient is there in their own code. If you agree, please send them emails letting them know [email protected] I keep asking for this feature but feel like I’m yelling in the wind.


I have to admit that I have found it likely to be the easiest setup there is.
I have disable/enable set to CC9 with two buttons mapped on my Composer Tools Pro template one that is with the value of 127 and the other the value of 0 allowing me to disable and enable... since ON is disable and OFF is enable

I did not have to set this manually as I simply used the 'L' button in VE Pro so the application litens to my input and then learns the MIDI Port, Channel and CC value for me 

So what are others trying to achieve?


----------



## Guy Rowland

Shadowlands - I have a very similar setup to you, but I've never been able to make the L button do anything. I have my buttons all mapped to enable / disable in Cubase, click the L in VE Pro's automation window, press the button and precisely squat happens. I've ended up assigning them all manually, which is a chore.


----------



## stigc56

When you load a project that includes channels on the connected VEPro server you have to remember to turn those channels on before running the sequence. With an automatic assignment like the one JT3_Jon talks about that isn't an issue!


----------



## whinecellar

So I'm just now finding out the hard way that I missed the boat on moving from VEP 5 to 6. I hated the idea of losing the instance list in favor of 6's new tabbed approach, and 5 did everything I needed, so I stayed put.

Anyway, because of an issue with VEP 5 running in Mojave (just bought a 2018 MB Pro which is a whole other headache thanks to the new T2 chip) - I'm forced to move to 6 - which VSL no longer sells. They tell me I need to buy 7 - *and an individual license for each machine I want to use it on* - as opposed to the previous 3 included licenses.

Apologies if I missed this in an 18-page thread I'm just now seeing... but really?!? Grrrrr. I get that 5 is "legacy" software, but 7 isn't out yet, so I'm caught in the middle. I just want to get to work. I'm really getting sick of all the hassles with companies like NI, and now VSL... let alone Apple. 

OK, sorry - rant over. I think.


----------



## wcreed51

I believe that if you pre-order 7, you get 6. Not sure how many licenses, but you may want to check that out.


----------



## whinecellar

wcreed51 said:


> I believe that if you pre-order 7, you get 6. Not sure how many licenses, but you may want to check that out.



Yes, I can confirm that ordering 7 gets you 6 - but you still have to order as many individual licenses as you need vs. the old model of having 3 included.


----------



## novaburst

wondering can VEpro six run along side VEpro 5 or does it update 5, as it would be nice to pull 6 up independent like the standard version of 6 and 5 if that makes any sense


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer

novaburst said:


> wondering can VEpro six run along side VEpro 5 or does it update 5, as it would be nice to pull 6 up independent like the standard version of 6 and 5 if that makes any sense



Installing 6 overwrites 5. I am not aware of any workaround that would make it possible to use both at the same time. As far as I understand, they use the same network ports etc.


----------



## novaburst

VSL are pending there newest VEpro 7 one license sale on the fact that many are going for one powerful machine hence the need of two or 3 machines is no longer called for, but i not sure if i am ready for that yet. so yes one license can hurt a little especially compared to VEpro 5 and even VIpro has 3 licenses, i think its these type of benefits that set VSL apart from the rest but i guess times are changing. 

When looking at the FX section of VEpro 7 i did not see any reverb so that is a bummer.


----------



## novaburst

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> Installing 6 overwrites 5. I am not aware of any workaround that would make it possible to use both at the same time. As far as I understand, they use the same network ports etc.



so basically i need to give up 3 licenses for one or go for more than one license, lets see what 7 has to offer.


----------



## Dewdman42

Some of us feel your pain. I don’t even need more then 2 servers ever and usually only need one, I might like to play around with a server or run it on a windows box for the rare occasion I have a windows only plugin to run. Or maybe I just want to run vep in my laptop at Starbucks sometime, but still it’s obnoxious that I may have to move my extremely valuable and irreplaceable dongle around more now in order to get by with one license and I feel that I paid for a 3 license product at a price point that seemed reasonable based on that flexibility. 

They have now priced me out of that flexibility for the same price point I understood the product to be before. I really think the vast majority of us will not buy multiple licenses because we are not truly dependent on it enough to warrant the cost. so vsl has effectively pissed off a huge chunk of its user base by reducing functionality for us and will gain relatively little extra revenue from it. Bravo VSL!

If I were a pro I would not worry about it but I’d probably start planning to downsize my rig if I had more then 3 servers going before unless you’re ok with $500 to upgrade every couple of years.


----------



## rrichard63

I think there's an acceptable rationale for VSL's decision to charge per single license rather than per block of three. But I don't think that they have presented their case very well. And, in particular, I don't think they are offering a satisfactory migration path from the old structure to the new one.

In the old model, hobbyists with (relatively) small templates hosted locally paid the same amount as professionals using one or more VEPro servers. My guess is that they decided this was limiting their access to the hobbyist market, and that expanding their user base beyond where it already is would require appealing to hobbyists as well as professionals. So far, so good. (Disclosure: as a hobbyist who has never owned VEPro until now, I benefit personally from the change.)

But in the process of attracting new users, VSL has put up a barrier in front of many of its existing customers. They should have grandfathered all existing licenses for purposes of upgrading. Once upgraded, each block of three licenses would become three single licenses in VEPro 7 -- and all new purchasers would pay per single license. So, when VEPro 8 comes around, all VEPro 7 users would have the same choice to upgrade one, some or all of their licenses.


----------



## Dewdman42

It will be the same problem at version 8 though. We paid a higher new purchase cost in the past for a 3 license product with a reasonable expectation about upgrade costs. Vsl is now changing the arrangement so that the 3 license product we thought we were getting will now be $200 to upgrade each time. New users get in cheaper now but the new normal is 1 license upgrade for a price that used to be for all three license upgrades. We don’t get to benefit from the new 1 license purchase option all. It’s meanigless to me the product just became either much more expensive then i thought it would be when I bought it, or less flexible then I thought it would be when I bought it. Take your pick.

Vsl should have grandfathered us in to this one license slap down with an extra cheap discount this time to make up for it. They did not. Hence most will buy only one license so vsl will not benefit one iota from what they are doing to us. And bad karma has been established in the process.


----------



## novaburst

The pre order is just on the limit of reasonable i guess, it does seem VSL are doing surveys on users accounts as in mine they would have seen an extra spare license for VEpro, hanging around for a few years untouched i am sure this would be the case for many other users too, 

This perhaps giving VSL a new school of thought in presenting there software, so my argument would be how comes you don,t give us 3 free licenses anymore, .....there argument would be you don,t need it and if you do have a great need for it you would purchase it, hmmmm it kind of makes sense, in a way. 

The pre order license is at a lower cost at the moment so for a few years all i have needed was two licenses, so i can say well ok give me an extra licenses for free, they can say well at the moment you can get an extra license for a discount cost,

i guess they are just streamlining and based on all the baggage or waste of thousands of licenses 
hanging around in users accounts you need to say it does make a bit of sense VSL now cutting off the free for all licenses.


----------



## kitekrazy

rrichard63 said:


> I think there's an acceptable rationale for VSL's decision to charge per single license rather than per block of three. But I don't think that they have presented their case very well. And, in particular, I don't think they are offering a satisfactory migration path from the old structure to the new one.
> 
> In the old model, hobbyists with (relatively) small templates hosted locally paid the same amount as professionals using one or more VEPro servers. My guess is that they decided this was limiting their access to the hobbyist market, and that expanding their user base beyond where it already is would require appealing to hobbyists as well as professionals. So far, so good. *(Disclosure: as a hobbyist who has never owned VEPro until now, I benefit personally from the change.*)
> 
> But in the process of attracting new users, VSL has put up a barrier in front of many of its existing customers. They should have grandfathered all existing licenses for purposes of upgrading. Once upgraded, each block of three licenses would become three single licenses in VEPro 7 -- and all new purchasers would pay per single license. So, when VEPro 8 comes around, all VEPro 7 users would have the same choice to upgrade one, some or all of their licenses.



I'm not so sure. I bought VE Pro 5 when it was on sale for a little less than 7's intro price. I could slap 5 on 3 machines. The real turn off for me is VSLs license replacement policy. With VE 5 or 6 I'd still have a license to burn if something happens to the dongle. I'm also one of those people when I upgrade a machine the older machine turns into a system with DAW capabilities. I keep older machines and that's where duplicate licenses come in handy. If a person also does work on a laptop they could use the spare license. Upgrade VEP 5 to 6 for 3 licenses is about the same maybe less than VEP7 and 1 more license. You have to shop around for that VEP7 deal.


----------



## Dewdman42

novaburst said:


> i guess they are just streamlining and based on all the baggage or waste of thousands of licenses
> hanging around in users accounts you need to say it does make a bit of sense VSL now cutting off the free for all licenses.



No it doesn’t make sense, there is no harm whatsoever in thousands of licenses going unused. It costs them nothing for that. In fact they took our money in order to create those, used or unused makes no difference. They are ours, we paid for them. Sorry I do love their product but this is complete and total arrogance on their part.


----------



## novaburst

@Dewdman42


Dewdman42 said:


> this is complete and total arrogance on their part.



This was my first thought on the new VEpro but if it offers some features that you need you will go for the extra license if they can get even lower cpu footprint it could be a very attractive item to have

VSL maybe setting them self's up for new customers because now with all this Synchronisation there Web site is looking very attractive.


----------



## novaburst

I hope they are not going to use pretty colors......... please


----------



## DaddyO




----------



## novaburst

DaddyO said:


>


----------



## LinusW

JT3_Jon said:


> I don’t know why they can’t make it so any disabled channel that receives midi signal automatically enables. That way you could have your whole template disabled, and it will turn on and payback only what is needed / you are using.


Because of RAM and loading times. Enabling channels will reload plugins and content. You'd miss the couple first phrases. 

You could setup midi program change for controlling enable/disable though. Easy to control from your DAW.


----------



## Ben

From the VSL forum:
"Hello everybody, 
Here's an update: Looking good, we're in the final stages of beta-testing and I'm expecting a release in the first days of May (as soon as possible, and assuming there are no unexpected roadblocks). 
Thanks for your patience!

Best, Paul"
https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t50941p20-SOON--VE-Pro-7----NOW--Epic-Orchestra-2-0#post283605


----------



## topaz

Still trying to convince myself ve-pro on a single machine is better than cubase track disable.

Head spin


----------



## D Halgren

topaz said:


> Still trying to convince myself ve-pro on a single machine is better than cubase track disable.
> 
> Head spin


Works out better for me because my CPU has a lot more power than the real-time audio processing of Cubase gives, i.e. sandboxing my plugins.


----------



## wcreed51

Plus your template stays loaded...


----------



## topaz

To have everything ready to go tracks will still need to be disabled.



wcreed51 said:


> Plus your template stays loaded...


----------



## composingkeys

You can also disable instruments in VE PRO 6 while still retaining all the patch information, routing, and freeing up CPU/Memory so really using VE PRO 6 is the best of both worlds (disabling plus much better performance) in a single computer setup.


----------



## topaz

In cubase I just hit a key command to enable needed instruments and then they reload with the saved song, how does ve pro handle that with one permanent template ? 




composingkeys said:


> You can also disable instruments in VE PRO 6 while still retaining all the patch information, routing, and freeing up CPU/Memory so really using VE PRO 6 is the best of both worlds (disabling plus much better performance) in a single computer setup.


----------



## DANIELE

topaz said:


> In cubase I just hit a key command to enable needed instruments and then they reload with the saved song, how does ve pro handle that with one permanent template ?



This is a good question indeed, I'm pretty curious too.


----------



## Soundhound

Anyone know if the price of additional licenses will go up after the pre-order period ends?


----------



## Dewdman42

yes.


----------



## Ben

DANIELE said:


> This is a good question indeed, I'm pretty curious too.


Just try the 30 days trial in a week or so. Maybe it will be part of the better and advanced automation support.
No hurry: The pre-order price does not end at the release date, so you are able to download the trial, play with it and then decide to buy it.


----------



## DaddyO

Soundhound said:


> Anyone know if the price of additional licenses will go up after the pre-order period ends?


My understanding from Paul's posts on the subject from the VSL forum is that the price will hold for a limited time after release. I could be wrong though.


----------



## Ben

correct, that is what Paul wrote in the VSL forum.


----------



## Soundhound

thanks!


----------



## Guy Rowland

topaz said:


> In cubase I just hit a key command to enable needed instruments and then they reload with the saved song, how does ve pro handle that with one permanent template ?



The way I have it set up is to enable VE Pro channels by means of a keyswitch, mapped to a CC. Then on each channel I have a muted key on bar 3. When saving a project, I use the Visibility Agent to show only the channels I’m using, then unmute all those bar 3s. So when I load up next time, all I need to do is play bar 3, and everything loads back up in one hit.

It’s a great workflow imo. Often I’m opening and closing the same project a lot in the same day, swapping projects or back and forth with Pro Tools. In these cases, all the VE Pro stuff stays loaded, so it’s a super quick process.


----------



## Raphioli

Just found out about this.

But damn, that pricing...
Its basically an increase for users who use it on multiple PCs.

I'm not sure how well their Synchron series is doing, 

but....(puts on tinfoilhat).... 

maybe they're having a hard time getting profit from it. 
So in order to compensate, they've basically increased the price of VEPro.

VEPro is something lots of users use and eventually, compatibility of various VI's might become an issue and I don't think they would update v6 to fix those things.
So they know users will have to eventually upgrade, hence they went with a price increase.

But like I said, its just a guess, but it does make sense to me.


----------



## NYC Composer

Raphioli said:


> But damn, that pricing...
> Its basically an increase for users who use it on multiple PCs.


I’ll pay it.

I’m thrifty, but VEP has almost doubled my computing power and extended the life of my old computers. I’m grateful for that.

I bought 6 and never upgraded from 5. When 7 comes out I’ll likely get that. Maybe i’ll even use it


----------



## Raphioli

NYC Composer said:


> I’ll pay it.
> 
> I’m thrifty, but VEP has almost doubled my computing power and extended the life of my old computers. I’m grateful for that.
> 
> I bought 6 and never upgraded from 5. When 7 comes out I’ll likely get that. Maybe i’ll even use it



Yeah, I'm in the same boat.

Like I've said in my previous post, theres a chance that users might face incompatibility issues in the future with v6,
so if I'm going to upgrade, I'd rather do it during the intro price period.

And I guess its better than them going out of business and VE Pro becoming obsolete.


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> Just try the 30 days trial in a week or so. Maybe it will be part of the better and advanced automation support.
> No hurry: The pre-order price does not end at the release date, so you are able to download the trial, play with it and then decide to buy it.



I already bought it a few time ago. I was wandering if it is better then Reaper in resources managing and depending on the workflow it will offer I'll go for a different template configuration.
Right now in Reaper I put tracks online/offline with the press of a button, I'd like to do the same thing in VEP.
Do someone knows the release date?


----------



## Ben

Official answer from Paul: "I'm expecting a release in the first days of May". So any day now.


----------



## Akarin

Does anyone know if the added plugins (EQ, Compressor, etc) are usable from the DAW directly as VSTs or if they run in VEPro only?


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> Official answer from Paul: "I'm expecting a release in the first days of May". So any day now.



Ok thank you, I really hope they will post some video tutorials for VEP7.


----------



## Audio Birdi

DANIELE said:


> I already bought it a few time ago. I was wandering if it is better then Reaper in resources managing and depending on the workflow it will offer I'll go for a different template configuration.
> Right now in Reaper I put tracks online/offline with the press of a button, I'd like to do the same thing in VEP.
> Do someone knows the release date?


You can do exactly that by swapping out the instance of your VI for VEP and then set the automation mapping in VEP to disable the specified track / channel which is cool!

I have found that REAPER itself when tracks are enabled gives 10% less CPU usage than utilising VEP with the exact same template.

The ability to load multiple projects and have a lot faster save times in your DAW outweighs the CPU usage though I feel .


----------



## topaz

Cheers Guy 

I have tried this but for my hybrid style of writing this is just way too fiddly to set up and maintain.

I have been using the demo but I am losing the will to live, and the thought of having to set up everything again with workarounds fills me with despair. 

If V7 adds wake on midi I may look again but for now I will stick with Cubase track disable.

best
Matt 



Guy Rowland said:


> The way I have it set up is to enable VE Pro channels by means of a keyswitch, mapped to a CC. Then on each channel I have a muted key on bar 3. When saving a project, I use the Visibility Agent to show only the channels I’m using, then unmute all those bar 3s. So when I load up next time, all I need to do is play bar 3, and everything loads back up in one hit.
> 
> It’s a great workflow imo. Often I’m opening and closing the same project a lot in the same day, swapping projects or back and forth with Pro Tools. In these cases, all the VE Pro stuff stays loaded, so it’s a super quick process.


----------



## DANIELE

Audio Birdi said:


> You can do exactly that by swapping out the instance of your VI for VEP and then set the automation mapping in VEP to disable the specified track / channel which is cool!
> 
> I have found that REAPER itself when tracks are enabled gives 10% less CPU usage than utilising VEP with the exact same template.
> 
> The ability to load multiple projects and have a lot faster save times in your DAW outweighs the CPU usage though I feel .



Well 10% is not little, if I have to use 10% more of my CPU I don't know if VEP could be a solution for me, I'll use it aswell but I have to think how to use it unless I could find a way to setup a more efficient template. I really hope they improve CPU usage and general user interface, a wake up on midi should be very useful.

Usually I don't switch project so often, so I think I need to hope on faster than Reaper loading times.

Maybe I could gain something in project saving time also...


----------



## Audio Birdi

DANIELE said:


> Well 10% is not little, if I have to use 10% more of my CPU I don't know if VEP could be a solution for me, I'll use it aswell but I have to think how to use it unless I could find a way to setup a more efficient template. I really hope they improve CPU usage and general user interface, a wake up on midi should be very useful.
> 
> Usually I don't switch project so often, so I think I need to hope on faster than Reaper loading times.
> 
> Maybe I could gain something in project saving time also...


True, I do feel that Reaper itself is more efficient than VEP. If they implement the ability for project tabs to interact with one another inside REAPER itself, This would be a very useful feature as it'd allow for 1 project to be used for sample hosting and the others act as audio / midi only for your main project files when composing.

VEP has enabled faster save and load times but I do hope they improve efficiency, Reaper is still the most efficient compared to Logic and Cubase too I feel.

But Vienna have been adding a lot of cool features to VEP which does entice me to upgrade.


----------



## Dewdman42

If the reaper devs made a reaper equivalent to the vep vst/au plugin, I think it would put vep out of business except for perhaps users of vsl libraries that gain a few small advantages using vep to host vipro and mirpro.


----------



## DANIELE

Audio Birdi said:


> True, I do feel that Reaper itself is more efficient than VEP. If they implement the ability for project tabs to interact with one another inside REAPER itself, This would be a very useful feature as it'd allow for 1 project to be used for sample hosting and the others act as audio / midi only for your main project files when composing.
> 
> VEP has enabled faster save and load times but I do hope they improve efficiency, Reaper is still the most efficient compared to Logic and Cubase too I feel.
> 
> But Vienna have been adding a lot of cool features to VEP which does entice me to upgrade.



In fact I bought it primarily because of the possibility to build a faster template but I really hope that it use at least the same resources than Reaper to host all my instruments/tracks (like 800 tracks).


----------



## Guy Rowland

topaz said:


> Cheers Guy
> 
> I have tried this but for my hybrid style of writing this is just way too fiddly to set up and maintain.
> 
> I have been using the demo but I am losing the will to live, and the thought of having to set up everything again with workarounds fills me with despair.
> 
> If V7 adds wake on midi I may look again but for now I will stick with Cubase track disable.
> 
> best
> Matt



Setting up is a PITA no question - I think VEP 7 might help there. But once done, it's an absolute joy next to Disabled Tracks. Efficiency is about 2x Cubase levels, and it stops those .cpr projects ballooning in size - with auto saves and multiple versions I was starting to chew up many gigabytes on these when I was starting to go down the disabled tracks route.


----------



## steveo42

Really dumb question but I see people saying they are going to run this on one machine. What's the purpose of running this on a single machine? I thought the entire purpose was to offload VSTi to another physical box? What am I missing?


----------



## Audio Birdi

steveo42 said:


> Really dumb question but I see people saying they are going to run this on one machine. What's the purpose of running this on a single machine? I thought the entire purpose was to offload VSTi to another physical box? What am I missing?


The performance load is better in VEP than internally within most DAWs, also your DAW session will be a lot less in file size and save quicker too.


----------



## IFM

Audio Birdi said:


> The performance load is better in VEP than internally within most DAWs, also your DAW session will be a lot less in file size and save quicker too.


This and in partial to a response earlier where someone claimed a single machine user wasn’t pro that it’s silly to think that you have to run multiple machines. I’m much happier on a single more powerful machine...less maintenance, electricity, heat, noise, cost. I do have an additional Mac ready to go when needed but it has become a rare instance it does.


----------



## JT3_Jon

IFM said:


> This and in partial to a response earlier where someone claimed a single machine user wasn’t pro that it’s silly to think that you have to run multiple machines. I’m much happier on a single more powerful machine...less maintenance, electricity, heat, noise, cost. I do have an additional Mac ready to go when needed but it has become a rare instance it does.


May I ask what your main machine is, and in general how much it can handle instruments / plugins wise?


----------



## IFM

JT3_Jon said:


> May I ask what your main machine is, and in general how much it can handle instruments / plugins wise?


It's a tweaked out MacPro5,1 with 64gb ram and all SSD, USB3, and the fastest Xeon processors out that that work with it and I use LPX.

Inside VEP I run a large orchestral template of HS, HB, HWW, and then I'll add whatever is needed for the piece such as choirs and whatnot. The rest of my VI's will live locally in LPX such as more string libraries, more brass, synths and so on...way too many sounds available to bother having pre-loaded.

I have my starter template but then I've spent time organizing the rest of my favorites into the patch library or as channel strips. For example, when it's time for medieval I have a complete bank I can call up with a single click.


----------



## steveo42

Audio Birdi said:


> The performance load is better in VEP than internally within most DAWs, also your DAW session will be a lot less in file size and save quicker too.



Thank you! That does make sense.


----------



## Ashermusic

steveo42 said:


> Thank you! That does make sense.



And if you work from a VE Pro template with a DAW template that corresponds, as I do, you never have to wait for instruments to reload, just reconnect.


----------



## jneebz

Guy Rowland said:


> When saving a project, I use the Visibility Agent to show only the channels I’m using, then unmute all those bar 3s


I'm probably missing something obvious, but aren't the bar 3 CCs already _unmuted_ since you've been writing on those tracks? I realize this is probably a ridiculous request, but I'd do a backflip for a brief video on your current workflow as I've followed your progression and still have some areas of fog...


----------



## Guy Rowland

jneebz said:


> I'm probably missing something obvious, but aren't the bar 3 CCs already _unmuted_ since you've been writing on those tracks? I realize this is probably a ridiculous request, but I'd do a backflip for a brief video on your current workflow as I've followed your progression and still have some areas of fog...



The video exists already, whoo hoo!



This is Part 1 and is short, Part 2 is the longer version with more details.

As to bar 3, it’s a key switch not a CC, Cubase midi transformer converts it to CC on repro.


----------



## Raphioli

Dewdman42 said:


> If the reaper devs made a reaper equivalent to the vep vst/au plugin, I think it would put vep out of business except for perhaps users of vsl libraries that gain a few small advantages using vep to host vipro and mirpro.



Competition is always good for any industry for the consumers.
I think they were able to raise the price because there was no competition to VE Pro.
Theres nothing close to it and solid as VE Pro atm afaik.


----------



## Ben

Raphioli said:


> Competition is always good for any industry for the consumers.
> I think they were able to raise the price because there was no competition to VE Pro.
> Theres nothing close to it and solid as VE Pro atm afaik.


That kind of software is really expensive in development. If most people use only one license, and they whant to make it more affordable for those who only need one, they have to raise the price slightly. Simple math. Keep in mind the fx plugins you'll get on top of the new features (the same fx as the Pro plugins from the suite, only limitation: they work only inside VEP).


----------



## jneebz

Guy Rowland said:


> The video exists already, whoo hoo!
> 
> 
> 
> This is Part 1 and is short, Part 2 is the longer version with more details.
> 
> As to bar 3, it’s a key switch not a CC, Cubase midi transformer converts it to CC on repro.



Ah! Fantastic! Thanks very much Guy!


----------



## Giscard Rasquin

Guy Rowland said:


> The video exists already, whoo hoo!
> 
> 
> 
> This is Part 1 and is short, Part 2 is the longer version with more details.
> 
> As to bar 3, it’s a key switch not a CC, Cubase midi transformer converts it to CC on repro.




Thanks for that video Guy! Interesting stuff. Definitely going to setup this way but holding out for VEPRO7 to see if the automation is much faster


----------



## DANIELE

I'm trying VEP6 in Reaper while I'm waiting for VEP7 and by using Event Input I noticed a very huge delay, why?


----------



## Ben

DANIELE said:


> I'm trying VEP6 in Reaper while I'm waiting for VEP7 and by using Event Input I noticed a very huge delay, why?


Hard to tell. Make sure you aren't using plugins with high latency. Also make sure that the VEP plugin in your DAW has a low latency setting (you can choose between 0-4x).


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> Hard to tell. Make sure you aren't using plugins with high latency. Also make sure that the VEP plugin in your DAW has a low latency setting (you can choose between 0-4x).



The latency is on 0 in Reaper. I'm using Kontakt with a percussion instrument and nothing else.

Wow, I think I'll stop using VEP even before using it. Can I ask for a refund?


----------



## Ben

DANIELE said:


> The latency is on 0 in Reaper. I'm using Kontakt with a percussion instrument and nothing else.
> 
> Wow, I think I'll stop using VEP even before using it. Can I ask for a refund?


Yes, VSL has a 30 days refund policy. But I would recommend contacting them directly at [email protected]
VEP is very low latency, you should not be able to feel any difference with latency just because of VEP. So many people use it without problems. So give it a try.


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> Yes, VSL has a 30 days refund policy. But I would recommend contacting them directly at [email protected]
> VEP is very low latency, you should not be able to feel any difference with latency just because of VEP. So many people use it without problems. So give it a try.



If I play directly on the instance I have no lag, if I play on Event Input I have lag. I don't know why...


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

DANIELE said:


> If I play directly on the instance I have no lag, if I play on Event Input I have lag. I don't know why...


you don't need the event input option, you need the ensemble option when selecting your plugin in your daw.


----------



## DANIELE

Silence-is-Golden said:


> you don't need the event input option, you need the ensemble option when selecting your plugin in your daw.



I found out that the problem is the option "Anticipative FX Processing", I disabled it for the track with VEP istance and the latency problem is gone. Now I have to find out how it behaves with very big templates.

Could you clarify what "ensemble option" is please?

Also, is there a way to open the ui of the instrument I want to modify like I do directly in reaper by opening the FX window of the selected track?

Thank you.


----------



## DANIELE

I did a few tries, enabling channels take less than 2 second in VEP while in Reaper takes more than 5 seconds by doing it with the same plugin and library loaded.

If VEP7 has a better workflow and is faster than VEP6 then it is a good buy!!


----------



## Ben

There are two plugins: The main VEP plugin that also returns the audio signal to the DAW and an Event Plugin that does not return the audio signal, but is used in DAWs that do not support MIDI ports to allow for more than 16 channels.

There is a raise functionality in VEP that you can assign in automation. But I never used it, so no idea how it works.


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> There are two plugins: The main VEP plugin that also returns the audio signal to the DAW and an Event Plugin that does not return the audio signal, but is used in DAWs that do not support MIDI ports to allow for more than 16 channels.
> 
> There is a raise functionality in VEP that you can assign in automation. But I never used it, so no idea how it works.



Yeah I see it. I don't want to split midi and audio channels so I'm trying to build one channel for both.

Now I don't know if it is better:

To use the main plugin with 16 channel midi routing. By doing this I loose the ports and I have only 16 instruments per instance and I cannot use parameters for the automations;
Use the main plugin (to connect to instances) and the Event Plugin, one for instrument in Reaper. By doing this I could use 48 ports per instance and parameters for the automations but I loose 16 Midi Channel control (anyway 48 instruments per istance are a lot);
Use the main plugin, the Event plugin and build 16 midi channel per event plugin. By doing this I have 48 ports x 16 Midi Channels but I risk that there is really too much confusion in the organization of the template.
I'm also thinking about not routing every instrument audio out of VEP since I don't work on single instruments mixer tracks but mainly on busses (1 istance = 1 bus).

I obviously wait for VEP7 to see what improvements I could use to build a better template.

About raising I found the Midi Activity option but it doesn't work very well and it is not what I'm looking for, I hope they do something better in VEP7 about this.


----------



## Ben

Do whatever works best for you. And yes, wait for VEP 7 before building your template


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

DANIELE said:


> Could you clarify what "ensemble option" is please?


See the picture, the event input is something else entirely that can be got from the manual.
I use vepro....


----------



## DANIELE

Silence-is-Golden said:


> See the picture, the event input is something else entirely that can be got from the manual.
> I use vepro....



Ah sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. Now I understand, as I said I have 3 choices...see previous post.


----------



## Dewdman42

Danielle at some point in the future vep7 will include an AU3 version of the regular vep plugin, which will support multiple midi ports. Their vst3 plugin already does but it’s not supported in logicpro. I suspect logicpro will need an update to support multiple midi ports in AU3 also. So we have that to look forward to but it may be a while, wouldn’t surprise me if it’s still years away.

Another option is the multiport environment based templates that provide a way to handle more then one midi port into a single vep instance by using environment objects that insert cc99 events in front of every note to indicate port and then the vep plugin translates it back to port routing in vep. That actually works way better then the event input plugin, which I would avoid. You can find those here to try out: https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=137085


----------



## DANIELE

Dewdman42 said:


> Danielle at some point in the future vep7 will include an AU3 version of the regular vep plugin, which will support multiple midi ports. Their vst3 plugin already does but it’s not supported in logicpro. I suspect logicpro will need an update to support multiple midi ports in AU3 also. So we have that to look forward to but it may be a while, wouldn’t surprise me if it’s still years away.
> 
> Another option is the multiport environment based templates that provide a way to handle more then one midi port into a single vep instance by using environment objects that insert cc99 events in front of every note to indicate port and then the vep plugin translates it back to port routing in vep. That actually works way better then the event input plugin, which I would avoid. You can find those here to try out: https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=137085



Thank you, I'll look at it for sure.


----------



## Ben

And it's live: VEP 7 is now released:
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Software/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro


----------



## LinusW

Ben said:


> And it's live: VEP 7 is now released:
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Software/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro


Here we go!


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> And it's live: VEP 7 is now released:
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Software/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro



Great!! I'll try it this evening after work.

Is there some in dept video tutorials and video walkthrough/features overview out there?


----------



## hdsmile

yeah video walkthrough will be great!


----------



## Ben

hdsmile said:


> yeah video walkthrough will be great!


https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Software/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro#!Video_Demos_prev
Here are some shorter videos. In my experience the manual is also a good reference.


----------



## topaz

Did they add some kinda of auto (wake) enable track on midi activity or do you still have to faff about with midi cc's in DAW ?


----------



## Ashermusic

I have been beta testing it and I like it. I have not tried the VM1 beta yet.


----------



## Ben

topaz said:


> Did they add some kinda of auto (wake) enable track on midi activity or do you still have to faff about with midi cc's in DAW ?


You can now map the enable/disable to the parameter. Even for entire folders.


----------



## Gerd Kaeding

Just installed it , but haven't worked with it so far .

But when loading my Standard Setup ( Mac ; OS X 10.13.6 ; PLAY6 Libraries only ) I noticed that - _compared to VEP6_ - this setup loads within 3minutes instead of 4minutes , and according to ACTIVITY MONITOR my system is using slightly 4GB less RAM ( 49GB compared to 53GB ).


----------



## topaz

So no way to use a standard key command in DAW or auto enable on midi ? it still has to be done over midi correct ?



Ben said:


> You can now map the enable/disable to the parameter. Even for entire folders.


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

This i


Gerd Kaeding said:


> Just installed it , but haven't worked with it so far .
> 
> But when loading my Standard Setup ( Mac ; OS X 10.13.6 ; PLAY6 Libraries only ) I noticed that - _compared to VEP6_ - this setup loads within 3minutes instead of 4minutes , and according to ACTIVITY MONITOR my system is using slightly 4GB less RAM ( 49GB compared to 53GB ).


This for me has much more value than all that epic orchestra or the plug ins. Hope it will be the same with my system.


----------



## Dewdman42

Alright...I'm going in...


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Software/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro#!Video_Demos_prev
> Here are some shorter videos. In my experience the manual is also a good reference.



Great, I missed this!!



Ben said:


> You can now map the enable/disable to the parameter. Even for entire folders.



So you still have to use an automation to enable a track or a folder, am I right?

Did they manage to find a way to open directly the interface with a chosen instrument in focus?


----------



## wbacer

Anyone tried Testflight, the iPad app? I don't see it listed in the Apple app store.


----------



## Raphioli

Gerd Kaeding said:


> Just installed it , but haven't worked with it so far .
> 
> But when loading my Standard Setup ( Mac ; OS X 10.13.6 ; PLAY6 Libraries only ) I noticed that - _compared to VEP6_ - this setup loads within 3minutes instead of 4minutes , and according to ACTIVITY MONITOR my system is using slightly 4GB less RAM ( 49GB compared to 53GB ).



Since you're on a Mac, if this is true with Windows as well, it'll be worth the price at least for me.


----------



## JEPA

pluginscan is failing to recognize a lot (3..) of VSTs... :(


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

wbacer said:


> Anyone tried Testflight, the iPad app? I don't see it listed in the Apple app store.


What is it actually?


----------



## wbacer

It's an iPad app that controls VEPro 7. Check it out on the VSL site.
It's not available on the app store yet since it is still in beta. In order to get a copy of the beta you have to email Montreal Music Labs and request the beta copy.


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

wbacer said:


> It's an iPad app that controls VEPro 7. Check it out on the VSL site.
> It's not available on the app store yet since it is still in beta. In order to get a copy of the beta you have to email Montreal Music Labs and request the beta copy.


Thanks, interesting to know.
Switching screens on one mac isn’t always handy, whilst using a full seperate secondary screen only for vepro is overkill.


----------



## EgM

Testing on Win10: (Localhost server x64)

- What's with the automation window on the right that opens by default...
- Messed up mouse cursor at times, should be a default pointer but sometimes shows a resize mouse cursor instead.


----------



## Olivier1024

I got a problem when installing on Windows Server 2012R2. VEP7 refuse to finish installation because "wlanapi.dll" was missing (this problem doesn't exist with VEP6).
The solution is go to server manager and add the feature/role called "Wireless LAN service".


----------



## Dewdman42

Just installed VEP7 to try it out. First impressions...


Loading old projects in LPX based on VEP6 worked fine and loaded the instance data into VEP7
I think load time was approx about the same as VEP6. I don't have hard measurements.
CPU usage seems a little lighter compared to VEP6, but not by a lot and I might be imaginging it.
Love the Plugin management improvements. That might be the biggest VEP7 improvement for me. A few plugins did not validate, which used to validate and work under VEP6. But at least VEP7 did not crash while scanning plugins like VEP6 used to do. Ability to disable plugins and have favorites is gold, thank you!
I like how the VEP plugin and FX plugins have a menu item to change their scale, which help a lot on my Retina monitor. PLEASE add that to ViPro.
New FX are nice, looking forward to exploring some of the presets as they apply to my ViPro instruments. In case anyone is wondering, they do not work directly in your DAW, they can only be used inside VEP, which is to be expected IMHO.
Multiport environment macros still work! Yay! I was getting more dropped NoteOff problems compared to VEP6 though, especially if I mouse around in other apps while its playing. I am still testing that, but I could go for hours with VEP6 and never lose a NoteOff with Multiport macros, but now there are more dropped NoteOff's. :-(
I could not find the new AU3 beta to try it out, but based on the latest video from Paul about it, i don't think most people are going to want to mess with it at this point in time. Its not installed by default and I don't know how to install it yet. *UPDATE: High Sierra or newer is required for VSL AU3 support.*
In addition to more dropped NoteOff's (using multiport enviornment trick), I have experience some cases where the audio buffer seemed to jump forward in time, like a broken record skipping a short section of music. This happened while I was mousing around in another app and LPX/VEP7 were playing back. More testing needed to see if I can replicate it again, but it happend twice already so far. its possible I had the VEP preferences window open too, which would be somewhat understandable.
My overall impression is that its an improvement over VEP6. Some of the new features are not of much interest to me, so I do have to say for me its a fairly expensive upgrade, especially in light of the multi-license policy changes. The Plugin management is a very welcome improvement that I think everyone will appreciate. I may find some use for the FX presets. Eventually, AU3 will be useful, but as of now, its not useful for most people and I can't seem to find it to try it anyway, but based on Paul's video about it, I think most people will not want to monkey with it. The improvements to automation are also very welcome improvements that I have yet to try out. The ability to enable and disable instances, folders and channels, etc.. I don't really need that feature, but I think some people will find that useful. Overall I would consider most of these refinements to be very good and welcome refinements, its not a major change to the software by any means. I still have to work through why I'm getting more dropped NoteOff's and strangeness somehow at times...overall the playback feels smoother and lighter on the CPU, but then that is happening more often now for some reason, but that's also involving the Logic enviornment multiport trick...I think most people are not messing with that so it may not matter.


----------



## Dewdman42

JEPA said:


> pluginscan is failing to recognize a lot (3..) of VSTs... :(



Yea on the mac I had a few plugins fail to validate... Jamstix, a few from arturia and a few custom built ones. Not sure what to make of that. But at least VEP7 doesn't crash while scanning like VEP6 used to do.


----------



## Ben

On Mac 32-bit plugins are no longer supported.


----------



## Nyran

Early report here. Everything ported fine from VEP6. Loading times are pretty much the same on my system, as well as saving times. Memory usage seems a bit higher with mostly kontakt libraries (some play and sunchron too). The automation and plugin management are nice additions but frankly nothing that changes my workflow too much. At the moment it seems like an expensive update although I like some of the stuff from epic orchestra 2.0. Mostly percussion and the Wagner tubas. I will post back after I get my hands dirty.


----------



## DANIELE

JEPA said:


> pluginscan is failing to recognize a lot (3..) of VSTs... :(



True, I don't see many VSTs (like audiomodeling ones) that I saw with VEP6, what the hell?!?!?


----------



## Wunderhorn

Don't you love these arrogant American banks that assume that the world ends on the Trump-Wall and Europe is on the moon? Once again there is no smooth way to purchase with Vienna.


----------



## Zero&One

DANIELE said:


> True, I don't see many VSTs (like audiomodeling ones) that I saw with VEP6, what the hell?!?!?



Daniele, I read you are using 1 Mac and VEP. That would be my setup for now. Would you say it's worth it from what you've experienced so far?


----------



## Ben

DANIELE said:


> True, I don't see many VSTs (like audiomodeling ones) that I saw with VEP6, what the hell?!?!?


Check in the plugin manager (Options -> Preferences -> Plugins). All plugins should be listed there. If a plugin failed to load it should be grey. You can try to rescan the plugins (make sure that there are no popups in the background which will cause a time-out and disable that plugin).

If the plugin you are missing is not listed at all in the manager, check the paths under "VST Settings".


----------



## LinusW

Dewdman42 said:


> I could not find the new AU3 beta to try it out


Which version of macOS? It's installed on Mojave Macs, but won't install on older OS. My main machine is still running Sierra.


----------



## brunodegazio

LinusW said:


> Which version of macOS? It's installed on Mojave Macs, but won't install on older OS. My main machine is still running Sierra.



It installed without trouble on my Mac running Sierra 10.12.6

EDIT: Sorry, I see now you were referring to the AU3 component. I thought you were referring to the application.


----------



## Dewdman42

Paul just replied on VSL forum that the AU3 support requires High Sierra or newer. I don't know why, but that's that for me, I'm not upgrading past Sierra yet. Anyway, based on what I've seen AU3 is not ready yet, I just wanted to play around with it and see how its working, but not enough to upgrade OS X just for that.


----------



## kitekrazy

Wunderhorn said:


> Don't you love these arrogant American banks that assume that the world ends on the Trump-Wall and Europe is on the moon? Once again there is no smooth way to purchase with Vienna.



I use 3rd party vendors.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Ben said:


> Check in the plugin manager (Options -> Preferences -> Plugins). All plugins should be listed there. If a plugin failed to load it should be grey. You can try to rescan the plugins (make sure that there are no popups in the background which will cause a time-out and disable that plugin).
> 
> If the plugin you are missing is not listed at all in the manager, check the paths under "VST Settings".



The big one for me is UVI Workstation. Updated to the latest 3.05 in Windows - VEP7 scanned it but then has eaten it whole. Doesn't appear in the list, and its looking in the right place. So I appear to be out of options.

This is a showstopper for me, cursing myself for being so stupid as to update on Day 1.

The Automation Window is, if anything, slightly more clumsy than in VEP6, taking more clicks to do the same thing in the destination menu. The one (considerable) plus at least is that finally the Learn button works here, which it never did before.

The side tabs are good. But overall its been a pretty rocky start here, I'd advise waiting for the first maintenance update.


----------



## wbacer

So far I have the iPad app (VM1) working wirelessly with both my MacPro and MacBook Pro. You have to install and run a helper app on the Mac. There is no helper app for the PC. For some reason the iPad app is not seeing VEPro on my PC (Windows 10) which is hardwired to my iPad Pro but I've been working with tech support to try and find the bug.


----------



## Ben

UVI Workstation 3.0.5 x64 is working for me (Windows 10). I have tested VEP now for over a month and had a rock solid experience without any problems. I was sceptical because I have a project running, but no issues the whole time (smaller bugs here and there, but they were quickly fixed).


----------



## Guy Rowland

Ben said:


> UVI Workstation 3.0.5 x64 is working for me (Windows 10). I have tested VEP now for over a month and had a rock solid experience without any problems. I was sceptical because I have a project running, but no issues the whole time (smaller bugs here and there, but they were quickly fixed).



Oh thanks Ben - what on Earth is happening with me then? Why does it completely disappear? Originally I was 3.0.2 and it didn't appear. I updated and rescanned, I saw it rescanning Workstation and then kablam - vanished.


----------



## Ben

In the VSL forum someone suggested to reinstall the latest version of the iLok Software and rebooting the pc after that.


----------



## jon wayne

wbacer said:


> So far I have the iPad app (VM1) working wirelessly with both my MacPro and MacBook Pro. You have to install and run a helper app on the Mac. There is no helper app for the PC. For some reason the iPad app is not seeing VEPro on my PC (Windows 10) which is hardwired to my iPad Pro but I've been working with tech support to try and find the bug.


Is the VM1 something you will use?


----------



## DANIELE

James H said:


> Daniele, I read you are using 1 Mac and VEP. That would be my setup for now. Would you say it's worth it from what you've experienced so far?



Hi James, no I'm using Windows 10 as my main (and only) machine, I have still to try the software in real setting to really test it out.
Right now I see it as a good possibility to build a more efficient template by separating my DAW and the libraries I use but I have to test if the configuration I have in mind is better than my actual template on Reaper that is great on efficiency. I have a really "shortcutted" workflow so it will be hard for me to insert VEP in it but I'll try to balance pro and cons.
I think it is a very good software but actually I couldn't say more.



Ben said:


> Check in the plugin manager (Options -> Preferences -> Plugins). All plugins should be listed there. If a plugin failed to load it should be grey. You can try to rescan the plugins (make sure that there are no popups in the background which will cause a time-out and disable that plugin).
> 
> If the plugin you are missing is not listed at all in the manager, check the paths under "VST Settings".



Already checked and rescanned some of the greyed plugins, but some of them like Neutron and Ozone VST3 doesn't work, they remain grey, I don't know if it is because of the VST2 plugins already activated.
The folders are the same I use in Reaper where I have all loaded without problems.


----------



## Zero&One

DANIELE said:


> ... Right now I see it as a good possibility to build a more efficient template by separating my DAW and the libraries I use but I have to test if the configuration I have in mind is better than my actual template on Reaper that is great on efficiency.



Thanks! Really appreciate your help and comments. I'll keep an eye out on this thread


----------



## Ben

VST3 hosting is not supported at the moment, but as far as I know it is still in development.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Ben said:


> In the VSL forum someone suggested to reinstall the latest version of the iLok Software and rebooting the pc after that.



Indeed, thanks Ben. I have posted there the full sorry tale - no luck and the log confirms VEP7 is systematically destroying plugins. For anyone who wants to follow this horror show, the VSL thread is here - https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...tion-not-recognised-in-VEP7-Win-10#post284266


----------



## Ben

No horror story, "destroying" or "disposing" is just a technical term in software development for unloading


----------



## Guy Rowland

Ben said:


> No horror story, "destroying" or "disposing" is just a technical term in software development for unloading



I appear to be causing great confusion today. I realise it's not literally destroying my plugins, but I felt it was a very apt description of how VEP7 is handling them internally. They appear for 2 seconds, then they get destroyed within VEP. For some reason.


----------



## Ben

No problem. I was not sure that it was you on the VSL forum :D


----------



## LinusW

I'm missing like half of my VSTs!? And also a few that are found but not validating. 
All my Spectrasonics stuff, kiloHearts and lots of other things not iLok-related.


----------



## Ben

I have none of the plugins you described. Also during beta test there were not so many problems with plugin loading. But this can happen if the plugin loading gets re-written...
My advice: Make a list with all plugins that are failing during scan / you are missing, attach the logs from %appdata%\VSL\Vienna Ensemble Pro\logs and send this to [email protected]

Most things get fixed quite quickly when the developer is able to locate the problem. I think we will see a few patches fixing these issues in the next days.


----------



## danwool

Is there anything about installing VE Pro 7 that would make reverting to VEP6, if there’s a need, problematic? 

Also, anyone tried the MAS version yet?


----------



## Raphioli

Coincidentally, I'm in a middle of something so I wasn't planning on installing the upgrade for a while (which goes for any kind of software of course).
I guess that saved my a**


----------



## Ben

danwool said:


> Is there anything about installing VE Pro 7 that would make reverting to VEP6, if there’s a need, problematic?


No problem, just de-install VEP 7 and re-install VEP6. As long as you did not save your project with VEP7 or have overwritten your VEP templates everything should work.
Just keep in mind that VEP6 can not open VEP7 saves.

(make backups before integrating VEP7 in your projects / changing your template)


----------



## Wunderhorn

Did anyone try to run both VEPro 6 and 7 parellel? Is it possible?


----------



## Guy Rowland

LinusW said:


> I'm missing like half of my VSTs!? And also a few that are found but not validating.
> All my Spectrasonics stuff, kiloHearts and lots of other things not iLok-related.



My hunch is that there is something unstable with VSL's plugin testing routine. I think Omnisphere loaded ok for me, but UVI Workstation sure didn't - yet that opens fine for others. And in that case, on the same OS and same plugin version. It seems pretty random.

Hopefully they can get this fixed ASAP, I can't really use it as is, and like an idiot I did work on the template before I realised some of my plugs were MIA. I'll submit a ticket on top of the thread.


----------



## synergy543

danwool said:


> Also, anyone tried the MAS version yet?


Yes, MAS version is working fine here.


----------



## Ben

Wunderhorn said:


> Did anyone try to run both VEPro 6 and 7 parellel? Is it possible?


No, it isn't. VEP7 replaces the VEP6 installation and has the same plugin identifier, so that it automaticly upgrades in your DAW.


----------



## Wunderhorn

Ben said:


> No, it isn't. VEP7 replaces the VEP6 installation and has the same plugin identifier, so that it automaticly upgrades in your DAW.



In other words, I cannot rename the VEPro 6 folder so it remains and install VEPro 7 and use two sets of plugins? It will be a mess? I wonder because if I remember correctly that is something that does work with Kontakt.


----------



## Ben

VEP uses ports for plugin VEP host communication. If the ports are the same on VEP7 as on VEP6 it will not work. But if you somehow are able to change the default ports it should, in theory, work.


----------



## wbacer

jon wayne said:


> Is the VM1 something you will use?


I think it has potential. Remotely you can enable an entire VEPro instances or just individual channels within an instance or individual plugins within a channel. You can also control volume, panning, midi channel assignments, and output assignments. I still can't get it to connect to my PC but they are working on a fix as this is still in beta.


----------



## C-Wave

LinusW said:


> I'm missing like half of my VSTs!? And also a few that are found but not validating.
> All my Spectrasonics stuff, kiloHearts and lots of other things not iLok-related.


Are you on Mac ? Just for the record, Omnisphere 2.6 opened fine on Windows 10 Pro (1809).


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

wbacer said:


> It's an iPad app that controls VEPro 7. Check it out on the VSL site.
> It's not available on the app store yet since it is still in beta. In order to get a copy of the beta you have to email Montreal Music Labs and request the beta copy.


Testflight is actually an app made by Apple that all iOS developers can use to beta test their apps. Once you get an invite from the developer, you can beta test their app on Testflight.


----------



## wbacer

TigerTheFrog said:


> Testflight is actually an app made by Apple that all iOS developers can use to beta test their apps. Once you get an invite from the developer, you can beta test their app on Testflight.


Ya, I figured that out. It's always good to learn something new...Thanks for verifying.


----------



## JEPA

JEPA said:


> pluginscan is failing to recognize a lot (3..) of VSTs... :(


ok, i confirm, am on mac high sierra, pluginscan crash when timed out. So far only 3 VSTs missing, but i have in my system only AUs and VST, VST2. I have avoided AAX, VST3..


----------



## artomatic

Anyone install VEP7 on a Mac running Pro Tools 2018.12? 
Is it performing as advertised or is it too unstable that it's not ready for prime time?


----------



## danwool

Ben said:


> VEP uses ports for plugin VEP host communication. If the ports are the same on VEP7 as on VEP6 it will not work. But if you somehow are able to change the default ports it should, in theory, work.


Thanks for all this info Ben! I too was hoping VEP 6 and 7 could live together on one Mac so one could simply choose, but it looks like it’s not so simple. With that in mind I’ll probably wait to install since 6 is running flawlessly. I haven’t seen anything yet about 7 that makes it a must.


----------



## LinusW

C-Wave said:


> Are you on Mac ? Just for the record, Omnisphere 2.6 opened fine on Windows 10 Pro (1809).


Two Macs and one PC. Not much installed on the PC yet. Had my first VEP 7 crash at installation completed.


----------



## azeteg

LinusW said:


> Two Macs and one PC. Not much installed on the PC yet. Had my first VEP 7 crash at installation completed.



It is a crash that could occur if the system didn't previously have Bonjour installed - It's been taken care of - with a new update coming today.


----------



## azeteg

JEPA said:


> ok, i confirm, am on mac high sierra, pluginscan crash when timed out. So far only 3 VSTs missing, but i have in my system only AUs and VST, VST2. I have avoided AAX, VST3..



Could you please tell me which plug-ins you are missing?


----------



## azeteg

LinusW said:


> I'm missing like half of my VSTs!? And also a few that are found but not validating.
> All my Spectrasonics stuff, kiloHearts and lots of other things not iLok-related.



Could you please tell me which plug-ins are not validating, or missing?


----------



## Guy Rowland

azeteg said:


> It is a crash that could occur if the system didn't previously have Bonjour installed - It's been taken care of - with a new update coming today.



I think its there right now - just got a message on launch about a new version.


----------



## Guy Rowland

C-Wave said:


> Are you on Mac ? Just for the record, Omnisphere 2.6 opened fine on Windows 10 Pro (1809).



Just to confirm I too definitely have Omnisphere recognised, but not UVI Workstation still. Have just installed today's 7.0778 , rescanned all and no change to behaviour. Pretty sure at this point that there is something screwy with the initialisation / scanning routine, returning different (and spurious) results for different systems.


----------



## azeteg

Guy Rowland said:


> I think its there right now - just got a message on launch about a new version.



You're right.


----------



## azeteg

Guy Rowland said:


> Just to confirm I too definitely have Omnisphere recognised, but not UVI Workstation still. Have just installed today's 7.0778 , rescanned all and no change to behaviour. Pretty sure at this point that there is something screwy with the initialisation / scanning routine, returning different (and spurious) results for different systems.



We didn't have any reports about UVI Workstation being a problem during the beta period, but we're investigating this right now. I suppose you are using the latest version of UVI Workstation?


----------



## JT3_Jon

Guy Rowland said:


> Just to confirm I too definitely have Omnisphere recognised, but not UVI Workstation still. Have just installed today's 7.0778 , rescanned all and no change to behaviour. Pretty sure at this point that there is something screwy with the initialisation / scanning routine, returning different (and spurious) results for different systems.



Odd. UVI workstation runs fine here on both my mac (v3.0.5) and PC (v3.0.3).

*For those of you missing plugins*, you may want to try manually rescanning any missing plugins like this directly in VEpro. To do this open the VE pro preferences (the gear icon in VEpro) and click the plugins tab. Next under effects go to “VST” and scroll until you see a greyed out “unknown” folder. Inside there should be most, if not all the plugins VE pro failed to enable. You can then right click on one individually and ask it to rescan. First off this is much faster than rescanning all, and most importantly this fixed problems I was having with VE pro missing plugins during a full scan. I had to manually enable many instruments and plugins on my PC, including omnisphere and many others, but once I went through this process once almost everything that worked for me in VEP6 works in VEP7. NOTE - in my beta version I had all my greyed out instruments in the effects -> VST folder and NOT in the instruments -> VST folder (this may have changed in later versions, I’m unsure as once they were manually rescanned, they worked). I had asked Vienna to add this information above to their manual as I for one found the process unintuitive but I’m unsure if this ever made it in the manual. Hope this helps someone.


----------



## azeteg

JT3_Jon said:


> Odd. UVI workstation runs fine here on both my mac (v3.0.5) and PC (v3.0.3). You may want to try manually rescanning any missing plugins like this directly in VEpro. To do this open the VE pro preferences (the gear icon in VEpro) and click the plugins tab. Next under effects go to “VST” and scroll until you see a greyed out “unknown” folder. Inside there should be most, if not all the plugins VE pro failed to enable. You can then right click on one individually and ask it to rescan. First off this is much faster than rescanning all, and most importantly this fixed problems I was having with VE pro missing plugins during a full scan. I had to manually enable many instruments and plugins on my PC, including omnisphere and many others, but once I went through this process once almost everything that worked for me in VEP6 works in VEP7. NOTE - in my beta version I had all my greyed out instruments in the effects -> VST folder and NOT in the instruments -> VST folder (this may have changed in later versions, I’m unsure as once they were manually rescanned, they worked). I had asked Vienna to add this information above to their manual as I for one found the process unintuitive but I’m unsure if this ever made it in the manual. Hope this helps someone.



Jon, 

1. Was the missing plug-ins an issue for you on Windows or Mac (or both?)
2. If you could provide a list of the plugins which do not validate during a full (or startup) scan, we'll ensure to check these out thoroughly on our side. 

I already know that Camel Audio Alchemy (old Windows version) is causing an issue for you, and we're looking into that right now.

It might be time consuming to run a new full scan, but it would be incredibly helpful to us!

Cheers,


----------



## Guy Rowland

azeteg said:


> We didn't have any reports about UVI Workstation being a problem during the beta period, but we're investigating this right now. I suppose you are using the latest version of UVI Workstation?



I am, yes. I've submitted a ticket with the full scan report, but there's a thread at the VSL forum documenting the issue - https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/m284312-UVI-Workstation-not-recognised-in-VEP7-Win-10 . It seems to affect different plugins on different systems, its not consistent.


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

update to vepro7 so far without issues.
All plugs are scanned and working fine.( latest OSX mojave and Logic)

The instance tabs horizontal is a breeze. Visibility is much improved by this, because the colour coding of related instances is more closely connected. scrolling through the list is also more natural.

Now I need to go through the instance enable /disable process.
Hopefully this can be done in groups as well?


----------



## NYC Composer

So VEP 7 no longer sees anything that’s 32 bit? 

That would really be too bad, as I’ve been using VEP 5 to open a lot of old stuff that doesn’t open anywhere else (I’m on Mac).


----------



## Ben

NYC Composer said:


> So VEP 7 no longer sees anything that’s 32 bit?
> 
> That would really be too bad, as I’ve been using VEP 5 to open a lot of old stuff that doesn’t open anywhere else (I’m on Mac).


Only on MAC: the support for 32-bit was dropped. On Windows it is still working.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ben said:


> Only on MAC: the support for 32-bit was dropped. On Windows it is still working.


Darn. I want to support Vienna, but that makes it hard.


----------



## JT3_Jon

azeteg said:


> Jon,
> 
> 1. Was the missing plug-ins an issue for you on Windows or Mac (or both?)
> 2. If you could provide a list of the plugins which do not validate during a full (or startup) scan, we'll ensure to check these out thoroughly on our side.
> 
> I already know that Camel Audio Alchemy (old Windows version) is causing an issue for you, and we're looking into that right now.
> 
> It might be time consuming to run a new full scan, but it would be incredibly helpful to us!
> 
> Cheers,



1. Windows Machine
2. At the time I sent support a screenshot of all my missing plugins and logs, which I managed to get working by manually rescanning as I described above. If you’d like I can either resend that original list, or I can reset and rescan my PC again tomorrow and see what happens. Let me know as I really want to be as helpful as possible.

BTW, VE pro 7 is a FANTASTIC upgrade! The new plugin browsing / tagging / searching feature alone is worth it for me, as well as the enable/disable buttons on individual instances, CPU & midi meters per instance, not to mention the integrated plugins! Pretty fantastic stuff IMO.


----------



## azeteg

Ben said:


> Only on MAC: the support for 32-bit was dropped. On Windows it is still working.



To be clear, you can still connect to a Windows 32-bit server from a Mac 64-bit plugin.

The reason for dropping 32-bit support on Mac is that Apple and certain 3rd party frameworks have made it (close to) impossible to keep on supporting 32-bit. On Windows, the situation looks a bit different, with Microsoft usually supporting older technologies and architectures longer.


----------



## azeteg

JT3_Jon said:


> 1. Windows Machine
> 2. At the time I sent support a screenshot of all my missing plugins and logs, which I managed to get working by manually rescanning as I described above. If you’d like I can either resend that original list, or I can reset and rescan my PC again tomorrow and see what happens. Let me know as I really want to be as helpful as possible.



Could you provide me the case number?


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> VST3 hosting is not supported at the moment, but as far as I know it is still in development.



I didn't know about this, how is it possible that a software like this still doesn't support VST3?

Just asking...


----------



## Ben

VEP itself has a VST3 version, but itself cannot host VST3 plugins (for now). But they are working on this feature, it just didn't make it in the first release. We have just to wait for an update in near feature


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> VEP itself has a VST3 version, but itself cannot host VST3 plugins (for now). But they are working on this feature, it just didn't make it in the first release. We have just to wait for an update in near feature



Yeah I'm using the VST3 version of it (even if actually my Reaper broke).

Thank you for the answer.


----------



## topaz

So is there no way to use a qwerty keyboard to enable/disable tracks in VEPro 7 ? 

We are still stuck using an unsupported lemur, or midi controller ?


----------



## Guy Rowland

Ben said:


> VEP itself has a VST3 version, but itself cannot host VST3 plugins (for now). But they are working on this feature, it just didn't make it in the first release. We have just to wait for an update in near feature



The irony of this is that the VE Pro plugin itself is the only one I own where VST3 is actually essential, because of the multiple midi ports. Kinda weird that they then don't support it within the host, but I honestly don't miss it.


----------



## azeteg

topaz said:


> So is there no way to use a qwerty keyboard to enable/disable tracks in VEPro 7 ?
> We are still stuck using an unsupported lemur, or midi controller ?


Cmd-E will enable/disable channels or folders in VEPro. But perhaps I misunderstand you - is there another feature which you are missing?

The VM1 app from Montreal Music Labs (in Beta right now) also offers very detailed control over the VEP7 features


----------



## azeteg

Guy Rowland said:


> The irony of this is that the VE Pro plugin itself is the only one I own where VST3 is actually essential, because of the multiple midi ports. Kinda weird that they then don't support it within the host, but I honestly don't miss it.


This has been the logic for not implementing it so far. For VEP7, VST3 brings a welcome feature - notifications about plugin parameter info changes. This is important for updating the automation parameter mappings to the host. Without this - plugins that change their parameter names (yes, looking at you Kontakt!) won't update the parameter names in the host properly. This already works with AU plug-ins, but not VST2. 

So we're working on VST3, as Ben wrote - just didn't make it into the initial release.


----------



## topaz

I guess I am still confused how I can get equal results to cubase track enable without messing around with sending midi to VE, I guess I am looking at a way to simply only enable used tracks per project that are automatically enabled on song load with one static VE template.

I guess the only way that could happen is if VE had some kind of wake on midi data.



azeteg said:


> Cmd-E will enable/disable channels or folders in VEPro. But perhaps I misunderstand you - is there another feature which you are missing?


----------



## azeteg

topaz said:


> I guess the only way that could happen is if VE had some kind of wake on midi data.



This is something we still have on our feature todo list. We've just been debating which events should trigger this though - I suppose only note-ons would make sense.


----------



## topaz

Yes its a tuff one, and I honestly cannot think of a simple way of doing it.

Treating it like a key switch seems best I guess.



azeteg said:


> This is something we still have on our feature todo list. We've just been debating which events should trigger this though - I suppose only note-ons would make sense.


----------



## Guy Rowland

azeteg said:


> This is something we still have on our feature todo list. We've just been debating which events should trigger this though - I suppose only note-ons would make sense.



I think note ons would be great, and all that's needed. I've never noticed any issues with VEP being bombarded with multiple commands, but if that were a concern I guess you could block note ons from activating if the channel was already activated.

Wake On Midi would be a terrific feature.


----------



## JazzDude

hello, i found this, a live stream abt VEP7 in Japanese, but the video helped me as a new VEP7 User to "understand", what goin on with VEP7 and the plugins:


Why cant Paul of VEP or an employee do something similar?
Just a 2 hr "whats new" in VEP7 ?


----------



## azeteg

Guy Rowland said:


> I think note ons would be great, and all that's needed. I've never noticed any issues with VEP being bombarded with multiple commands, but if that were a concern I guess you could block note ons from activating if the channel was already activated.
> 
> Wake On Midi would be a terrific feature.



I'll see when we can squeeze that in


----------



## topaz

OSX 10.13.6 (VE Pro 7 Demo)

Failed validation: (VST) Analog Lab 4

Failed validation: (VST) Jup-8 V3

Failed validation: (AU) Arturia Jup-8 V3

Failed validation: (AU) Arturia Mini V3


----------



## azeteg

Could you please also open up the "Console" application, goto "User Reports" and copy any crashes from "pluginscan"?

Please send to me at [email protected] - I'll have a look.


----------



## topaz

Sure



azeteg said:


> Could you please also open up the "Console" application, goto "User Reports" and copy any crashes from "pluginscan"?
> 
> Please send to me at [email protected] - I'll have a look.


----------



## wcreed51

New updates posted this morning for VE Pro, VI Pro, and Synchron player


----------



## topaz

Ok, have sent over lots of reports and I await a response.

cheers.



azeteg said:


> Could you please also open up the "Console" application, goto "User Reports" and copy any crashes from "pluginscan"?
> 
> Please send to me at [email protected] - I'll have a look.


----------



## wbacer

I have VEPro7 on two Mac slaves and a third instance on my PC master with is also running the latest version of Cubase 10. Before installing VEPro 7 Cubase hardly ever crashed. Last night it crashed at least a half dozen times when just trying to do a simple midi edit. Anyone else experiencing DAW problems that may be VEPro7 related? One step forward, two steps backward...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

wbacer said:


> I have VEPro7 on two Mac slaves and a third instance on my PC master with is also running the latest version of Cubase 10. Before installing VEPro 7 Cubase hardly ever crashed. Last night it crashed at least a half dozen times when just trying to do a simple midi edit. Anyone else experiencing DAW problems that may be VEPro7 related? One step forward, two steps backward...



This is why I'm holding off this time until the bugs are sorted out. I immediately upgraded to 6 when it was released, only to discover it deleted all of my DNS settings. VSL reeled the update patch a couple of days later, but I learned my lesson the hard way. Let us know if you get it sorted out.


----------



## wbacer

Wolfie2112 said:


> This is why I'm holding off this time until the bugs are sorted out. I immediately upgraded to 6 when it was released, only to discover it deleted all of my DNS settings. VSL reeled the update patch a couple of days later, but I learned my lesson the hard way. Let us know if you get it sorted out.


Smart, and as you know, there's the leading edge and for early adopters there's the bleeding edge...


----------



## Vonk

I installed 7.0.778. I have Kontakt 6 player and Kontakt 5.8.1 full version. They both passed the scan on install, but only Kontakt 6 is showing as an available plug in. I haven't yet checked every other plug-in from the VST folder but most seem to be present. However at the moment I cannot access any of my Kontakt instruments that require Kontakt full version.
I've tried a reinstall and a re-scan, but the result is the same. Any advice on what to try?


----------



## Dewdman42

For the most part VEP7 has been working for me, but I haven't tried to load all my plugins or really work with it much. I did notice that when the GUI is up it seems to suck a lot of overall CPU, not sure why, I'm interacting with VSL about it now, they don't believe me yet. Might be something I'm doing..

I do not think there is ANY rush for anyone to jump on installing this right away, especially if you're a working pro. wait for stability. There really are not any gotta-have-it new features, its just incremental usability improvements. Worth doing sooner or later, especially if you are not multi-server VEP user. But I'd wait at least a few weeks to install it, you're not really missing that much if you wait honestly. if I were a working professional I would probably wait months or longer to be honest. Might pay for it now to get the early price though!


----------



## Guy Rowland

wbacer said:


> I have VEPro7 on two Mac slaves and a third instance on my PC master with is also running the latest version of Cubase 10. Before installing VEPro 7 Cubase hardly ever crashed. Last night it crashed at least a half dozen times when just trying to do a simple midi edit. Anyone else experiencing DAW problems that may be VEPro7 related? One step forward, two steps backward...



No crashes at all here I have to say - problems, but no crashes. I'm Win 10 but all one machine, could be related to network issues? I know there have been some changes there.



Vonk said:


> I installed 7.0.778. I have Kontakt 6 player and Kontakt 5.8.1 full version. They both passed the scan on install, but only Kontakt 6 is showing as an available plug in. I haven't yet checked every other plug-in from the VST folder but most seem to be present. However at the moment I cannot access any of my Kontakt instruments that require Kontakt full version.



This sounds like a variation on my issue. All I can suggest is to open a ticket and pass the the details and your plugin log - you can find that (if you are windows) by putting %appdata%\VSL\Vienna Ensemble Pro\logs into the Windows search bar, and the file is called pluginscan.txt .


----------



## Vonk

Guy Rowland said:


> This sounds like a variation on my issue. All I can suggest is to open a ticket and pass the the details and your plugin log - you can find that (if you are windows) by putting %appdata%\VSL\Vienna Ensemble Pro\logs into the Windows search bar, and the file is called pluginscan.txt .



I think I have resolved this. I inspected the pluginscan.txt and saw that Kontakt 5 (and a good many other items) had been "destroyed". I had an older version of Kontakt in my VST folder as well as Kontakt 5.8.1. When the older version of Kontakt was removed and VEPro 7 re-installed, Kontakt 5 was restored.


----------



## Sample Fuel

Vonk said:


> I installed 7.0.778. I have Kontakt 6 player and Kontakt 5.8.1 full version. They both passed the scan on install, but only Kontakt 6 is showing as an available plug in. I haven't yet checked every other plug-in from the VST folder but most seem to be present. However at the moment I cannot access any of my Kontakt instruments that require Kontakt full version.
> I've tried a reinstall and a re-scan, but the result is the same. Any advice on what to try?




I have this problem occasionally with VE PRO 6....the only work around I have found (as dumb as it sounds) is to make a new folder where your Kontakt plugin resides and then put the Kontakt plugin inside that new folder. Rescan or relaunch VE PRO and you will most likely see the missing plugin. Unfortunately you have to leave it in that new folder. If you take it out and put it back in the old location it will not show up again.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Huge thanks to VSL - both my issues fixed in the coming build which they kindly forwarded to me to check.

Not only does it now read my UVI Workstation and all the automation windows glitches are fixed, there's a whole new feature which I think is golden - In the Automation Window, it is now possible to drag and drop with modifiers an event, and it copies and auto-increments a parameter as follows:


Hold Alt and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied
Hold Alt-Shift and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied, CC incremented
Hold Alt-Cmd (cntrl Windows) and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied, Channel incremented 
This will MASSIVELY speed up my template building. All this in 24 hours and the promise of Wake On Midi to come, outstanding.


----------



## Dewdman42

Guy Rowland said:


> and the promise of Wake On Midi to come, outstanding.



yea? That will be kind of major if so...


----------



## dgburns

Oh you bleeding edge brave souls


----------



## nas

Although things have been off to a rocky start, kudos to VSL for getting on it right away and interacting with everyone here to get things back on track. Also kudos to those of you who took the plunge early and having been weathering a few storms but have kept providing feedback to everyone here and to VSL.

I am confident these issues will be resolved fairly quickly. VSL is a solid company and has delivered on bug fixes and stability issues in the past with VE Pro.


----------



## Vonk

Sample Fuel said:


> I have this problem occasionally with VE PRO 6....the only work around I have found (as dumb as it sounds) is to make a new folder where your Kontakt plugin resides and then put the Kontakt plugin inside that new folder. Rescan or relaunch VE PRO and you will most likely see the missing plugin. Unfortunately you have to leave it in that new folder. If you take it out and put it back in the old location it will not show up again.


Yes, this is exactly what I have done after reading the pluginscan log and seeing instances of Kontakt 5 "destroyed". Vepro seems to get Kontakt dll instances confused. Anyway it is a workaround for now.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Dewdman42 said:


> yea? That will be kind of major if so...



Indeed - read azateg's posts on the previous page 

For where I am right now personally, today's new drag and drop automation functionality is as much of a big deal or maybe even bigger. The advantage of the template system I have right now is I also have Disabled mapped to a key, so its quick and easy to tidy up if I decide against something. 

As it stands, using both methods in tandem will be fantastic - all the control I currently have, plus in future I won't need to even press that keyswitch when auditioning sounds - just play and it happens. Huge steps forward, and VEP7 transformed from quite-nice-to-have to bloody fantastic. The VE Pro Disabled Template has come of age, revolutionary stuff really.

(Side note - getting ahead of myself with Wake On Midi, but once its there then people starting new templates can use a much easier variation of the method I use to enable everything with one hit. Just put a muted dummy note on the start of every track in a project, then use the visibility agent to unmute that dummy note on every track you actually use. Press play and everything loads. Slick and quick, and all without the fairly tortuous setup needed until now).


----------



## artomatic

Okay, not a good time for me to beta test - so I'll wait to install till all of these quirks get sorted out.


----------



## Pablocrespo

Did anybody notice faster connecting and saving times?


----------



## Dewdman42

They promise that saving is faster over the network because they have implemented some compression into it. I don't use a vep server over network so I can't comment on that. My save and load times on local machine as DAW are about the same. Well load times are the same, I didn't actually compare save times... Well now that I think about it I should find out what they changed related to compression and saving and try to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## Vonk

I've moved from 5 to 7, so not sure if the "decouple all" feature (manual page 54) is new or not. This for me is brilliant for my template already - clicking "decouple all" reduces my file size from 362mb to 16mb, which means I can go back to using autosave. However I'm unclear as to the distinction between disable and decouple.
Does "disable" empty ram but not file data, while "decouple" means Vepro data is not saved in the cubase file but the instrument remains loaded & active?


----------



## Dewdman42

With decouple you will need to make sure to save your VEP7 project from the VEP7 window..all the information about what is in each channel on every plugin, etc..will not be saved in your DAW. That's why the filesize is now much smaller and its faster to save and load the DAW project. But make sure to save the VEP project and you will need to reload it later from VEP's menus before connecting with your DAW to it. There are pros and cons to using Decouple


----------



## Rob Elliott

Still on 5 (works flawlessly) with never a crash. The benefits just aren't worth the risk to me. BUT.... Does anyone know that IF I actually install what was purchased - if it behaves poorly I can GO BACK to VEP 5?


----------



## Guy Rowland

Rob Elliott said:


> Still on 5 (works flawlessly) with never a crash. The benefits just aren't worth the risk to me. BUT.... Does anyone know that IF I actually install what was purchased - if it behaves poorly I can GO BACK to VEP 5?



I think this was already answered - essentially yes you can roll back to an earlier version, but make sure you don't save over any old frames in the new version or else you won't be able to reload them.

FWIW I think the difference between 5 and 7 is colossal. Given how fast they've been addressing fixes, give it a week or two and it should be pretty golden I reckon.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Guy Rowland said:


> I think this was already answered - essentially yes you can roll back to an earlier version, but make sure you don't save over any old frames in the new version or else you won't be able to reload them.
> 
> FWIW I think the difference between 5 and 7 is colossal. Given how fast they've been addressing fixes, give it a week or two and it should be pretty golden I reckon.


Ok sound good. Should have final mixes out on current project in 2 weeks.  Perfect timing. Thanks Guy. (just might update to Kontakt 6 - once this VEP 7 goes well) - bought them but just too chicken.


----------



## Grizzlymv

so if we upgrade from 6 to 7, we can roll back to 6 without issues? I thought I read somewhere that once you upgrade to 7, you lose your license to 6? can anybody confirm? I'm tempted to move to 7, but I'm also concerned that I'd be stuck in it if there's any issue. All of my template is made around 6, so I'd like to keep the ability to roll back if needed.


----------



## Dewdman42

you still have your license for 6 that you paid for and its on your dongle...3 of them! No you don't lose those. Where did you read that? I think you will be able to go back if you want. But.. if you save any projects while using VEP7, those projects will not load up with VEP6. So it is a little bit one way street once you commit to it. You can certainly install it and try it out a while before you make a permanent decision.


----------



## thomasjdev

Dewdman42 said:


> For the most part VEP7 has been working for me, but I haven't tried to load all my plugins or really work with it much. I did notice that when the GUI is up it seems to suck a lot of overall CPU, not sure why, I'm interacting with VSL about it now, they don't believe me yet. Might be something I'm doing..
> 
> I do not think there is ANY rush for anyone to jump on installing this right away, especially if you're a working pro. wait for stability. There really are not any gotta-have-it new features, its just incremental usability improvements. Worth doing sooner or later, especially if you are not multi-server VEP user. But I'd wait at least a few weeks to install it, you're not really missing that much if you wait honestly. if I were a working professional I would probably wait months or longer to be honest. Might pay for it now to get the early price though!



I had CPU issues with VEP 6 on Mac OS when the GUI was shown for an instance actively playing. I raised a ticket with them last week about this but they went silent on my, probably due to getting VEP 7 released. I see the same thing on VEP 7 now which is a bummer


----------



## Dewdman42

Interesting. The engineer has been responding to me on the VSL forum so i will try to continue conversing with him and send him some screen shots, maybe I'll try to make a video if I have to, but I have never done a screen record video before so not sure how. I never really noticed this until VEP7, its possible it was always doing that before on VEP6 as well and I only noticed it now. I specifically noticed after I got an an update for VIPro that enabled the articulation viewer thing to show up in the channel strips. Not that that means anything, because i only noticed it doesn't mean it wasn't happening before. But in any case 10-20% hit just for displaying some meter activity and the articulation names is really heavy handed, I hope they get to the bottom of it.

Here are screenshots playing the same project from DP->VEP7 at the same point on the timeline approximately... one when VEP window is showing and one when its minimized or hidden off to a hidden virtual desktop.....


----------



## playz123

Rob Elliott said:


> (just might update to Kontakt 6 - once this VEP 7 goes well) - bought them but just too chicken.


I think some of us are waiting for K6 to go on sale...hopefully by summer. At least that's the thinking around here. So far only a few libraries that I have actually require K6 and the K6 player can run them...for now. VEP 7 shouldn't give you any serious grief now, but definitely wise to wait until the time is right to switch.


----------



## Grizzlymv

Dewdman42 said:


> you still have your license for 6 that you paid for and its on your dongle...3 of them! No you don't lose those. Where did you read that? I think you will be able to go back if you want. But.. if you save any projects while using VEP7, those projects will not load up with VEP6. So it is a little bit one way street once you commit to it. You can certainly install it and try it out a while before you make a permanent decision.


 
Thanks for the clarification. I think I read it not so long after they announced v7 few weeks ago. But I may have read it wrong. Glad both can still work once you upgrade. 

I'm fine with the saving though. That make perfect sense as new version usually introduce new features / functionality so it's more difficult to remain backward compatible without having to sacrifice some benefits. It's often the case in software dev.


----------



## thomasjdev

Dewdman42 said:


> Interesting. The engineer has been responding to me on the VSL forum so i will try to continue conversing with him and send him some screen shots, maybe I'll try to make a video if I have to, but I have never done a screen record video before so not sure how. I never really noticed this until VEP7, its possible it was always doing that before on VEP6 as well and I only noticed it now. I specifically noticed after I got an an update for VIPro that enabled the articulation viewer thing to show up in the channel strips. Not that that means anything, because i only noticed it doesn't mean it wasn't happening before. But in any case 10-20% hit just for displaying some meter activity and the articulation names is really heavy handed, I hope they get to the bottom of it.
> 
> Here are screenshots playing the same project from DP->VEP7 at the same point on the timeline approximately... one when VEP window is showing and one when its minimized or hidden off to a hidden virtual desktop.....


I added to the post over on VSL with the issue I've seen and quick video reproducing it. Hopefully it's the same/similar to what you're seeing.


----------



## rrichard63

Dewdman42 said:


> you still have your license for 6 that you paid for and its on your dongle...3 of them! No you don't lose those. Where did you read that? ...


Is this also true for those who got a single VEP6 license when they pre-ordered 7 as a new user? I wonder if that is the source of the confusion.


----------



## sinkd

Does V7 still require the MAS plugin version to access multi-port MIDI in Digital Performer?


----------



## Dewdman42

I don't know if it REQUIRES the mas version but I'm using the MAS version of it right now as we speak and really liking it...very smooth. I will test out the other versions of it when I get a chance and let you know. I don't see why it wouldn't work


----------



## Dewdman42

rrichard63 said:


> Is this also true for those who got a single VEP6 license when they pre-ordered 7 as a new user? I wonder if that is the source of the confusion.



no idea. I would guess they have one VEP6 license they can always revert back to if they want.


----------



## Dewdman42

sinkd said:


> Does V7 still require the MAS plugin version to access multi-port MIDI in Digital Performer?



VST2 and AU works, but you're limited to 16 channels. The VST3 version I'm having trouble getting it past validation. MAS works great though. Why don't you want to use the MAS one?


----------



## jononotbono

Wake on Midi is going to become a real thing? Well shit the bed! That is fantastic news.

Now just NKS built into the VEPro plugin and that would be the Cherry on the Cake!


----------



## Dewdman42

I wish they would add a midifx slot in front of the instrument slot


----------



## Ben

Sadly I did not found working midi fx plugins other than the cuild-in ones in Cubase.


----------



## Dewdman42

There are plenty and most importantly there are scripting plugins that could be used to handle just about any articulation management task.


----------



## Ben

Could you please push me in the right direction? Where do I get them? Thanks


----------



## Helen McMillin

Dewdman42 said:


> Interesting. The engineer has been responding to me on the VSL forum so i will try to continue conversing with him and send him some screen shots, maybe I'll try to make a video if I have to, but I have never done a screen record video before so not sure how.



Recording a video of your screen on a Mac is easy, and you don’t need anything other than QuickTime Player. 

In the QuickTime Player app on your Mac, choose File > New Screen Recording.


Click the Options pop-up menu, then choose any of the following recording options:

Microphone: Choose None to record your screen with no sound, or choose a microphone. 


Options: Choose Show Mouse Clicks in Recording so that clicks you make during the screen recording appear as a circle in the video. 


Click the Record button, then choose a recording type.

Click once anywhere on the screen to start recording the entire screen.


Drag to select a portion of the screen to record, then click Start Recording. For example, you can drag to select just a specific window.


When you’re finished recording, click Stop in the menu bar (or use the Touch Bar).


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer

The new Automation functionality (update is live now!) is more important to me than Wake on MIDI. Great work VSL! 

Migrating to VEPRO7 & Kontakt 6 and building everything again is a breeze compared to what it took in VEPRO6. Way more streamlined experience and huge time-saver. I was dreading upgrading to K6, as I have something like 800 Kontakt instruments loaded in VEPRO, but it's going way faster than I anticipated thanks to the awesome new features!


----------



## Guy Rowland

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> The new Automation functionality (update is live now!) is more important to me than Wake on MIDI. Great work VSL!
> 
> Migrating to VEPRO7 & Kontakt 6 and building everything again is a breeze compared to what it took in VEPRO6. Way more streamlined experience and huge time-saver. I was dreading upgrading to K6, as I have something like 800 Kontakt instruments loaded in VEPRO, but it's going way faster than I anticipated thanks to the awesome new features!



It’s a dream isn’t it? Glad it’s out now. Can’t believe they appear to have added Automation Window increment drag and drop as a new feature apparently over lunchtime the day after release.

Really powerful, transformative workflow. If I have 16 DAW midi channels all routed to the same VEP action (enable / disable channel), now it’s a case of hitting Learn on the first one, setting the destination and then drag and dropping with the right modifiers 15 times. That’s a huge part of my life I’ve just got back.


----------



## Giscard Rasquin

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> The new Automation functionality (update is live now!) is more important to me than Wake on MIDI. Great work VSL!
> 
> Migrating to VEPRO7 & Kontakt 6 and building everything again is a breeze compared to what it took in VEPRO6. Way more streamlined experience and huge time-saver. I was dreading upgrading to K6, as I have something like 800 Kontakt instruments loaded in VEPRO, but it's going way faster than I anticipated thanks to the awesome new features!



Curious about this as I’m about to upgrade to Kontakt 6. Which feature exactly makes it a breeze to do this? I thought I’d have to replace every instance with a new one.


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer

GuitarG said:


> Curious about this as I’m about to upgrade to Kontakt 6. Which feature exactly makes it a breeze to do this? I thought I’d have to replace every instance with a new one.



Still true, but I have every instance automated to Enable / Disable via CC on separate MIDI ports & channels. That was one of the most tedious and time consuming parts of my setup and is now far easier to recreate with the new automation functionality.


----------



## Guy Rowland

GuitarG said:


> Curious about this as I’m about to upgrade to Kontakt 6. Which feature exactly makes it a breeze to do this?



Its worth repeating this, as AFAIK there's no documentation on this and they haven't publicised it in any way. If you hadn't read my VE Pro forum post you wouldn't know it exists, and it didn't until a few hours ago.

So the big deal is that now we can drag and drop within the Automation Window, and choose between modifiers to select your desired auto-increment outcome:

Hold Alt and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied
Hold Alt-Shift and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied, CC incremented
Hold Alt-Cmd (Mac) Alt-Cntrl (Windows) and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied, Channel incremented 
More important to me than any of the other features in VE Pro 7.


----------



## Giscard Rasquin

Ok, thanks guys!


----------



## azeteg

Guy Rowland said:


> Hold Alt and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied
> Hold Alt-Shift and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied, CC incremented
> Hold Alt-Cmd (Mac) Alt-Cntrl (Windows) and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied, Channel incremented
> More important to me than any of the other features in VE Pro 7.



Glad you like it


----------



## jononotbono

Guy Rowland said:


> It’s a dream isn’t it? Glad it’s out now. Can’t believe they appear to have added Automation Window increment drag and drop as a new feature apparently over lunchtime the day after release.
> 
> Really powerful, transformative workflow. If I have 16 DAW midi channels all routed to the same VEP action (enable / disable channel), now it’s a case of hitting Learn on the first one, setting the destination and then drag and dropping with the right modifiers 15 times. That’s a huge part of my life I’ve just got back.



Ah man. I’m gonna have to buy it later today then. Such good news.


----------



## novaburst

kitekrazy said:


> If you upgrade to a single license you will lose your VEP 6 licenses.



You would have gained a extra VEP 6 your license is on your dongle and the download is on your myvsl and can be downloaded as many times as you wish as long as the license is on the dongle, you can go back to VEP5 even or 4


----------



## sinkd

Dewdman42 said:


> VST2 and AU works, but you're limited to 16 channels. The VST3 version I'm having trouble getting it past validation. MAS works great though. Why don't you want to use the MAS one?


I'm very happy witht he MAS plugin as well. Just wondering if it will still be necessary/included with V7.


----------



## azeteg

sinkd said:


> I'm very happy witht he MAS plugin as well. Just wondering if it will still be necessary/included with V7.


The MAS plugin is still included. Now that DP10 has VST3 support, the VST3 plugin could possibly be used as well - but we haven't done any testing of the VST3 plugin in DP10 yet.


----------



## topaz

Can someone using OSX 10.13.6 please try this.

Open VEP7 Server, load an instance of K5, save as server project.

double clicking on server file from desktop causes hang
open server app first then loading is fine.

Cheers


----------



## ceemusic

After installing VEP7 I get a VEP6 pop-up every time I open any of my daws & it scans for new plugins. (can't open the program)

I'm also receiving a pop-up ad to upgrade every time I open VEP7 itself.

There's a check box option to stop the upgrade ad but how do I stop the VEP6 notice from opening every time I open a daw or program? Is un-installing 6 the only option?


----------



## DANIELE

I noticed that in Reaper I see named parameters if I use directly the main plugin, if I use Event Input instead I keep seeing them named "Parameter 1, Parameter 2 etc"...

Is there a way to extend this to Event Input plugin?


----------



## Grizzlymv

I finally took the jump and upgraded to vep7. I confirm that all previous versions you had are still there and functional. 

Question though regarding the AutoNation of disable/enable. Is there a guide somewhere that explain how to do it? I'm on cubase 9.5 with a template on vep6 for static libs, and disabled tracks within cubase for more dynamic libs (synths and stuff I want to have at hand). 

One of the reason I wanted to go with 7 is to benefits from that enable/disable automation and shift most of the libs into vep7. I was just wondering how you guys do it? Also, is there an approach you would recommend more in terms of channels/folders/instance organization within VEP according to each tracks within cubase based on your experience? 

I know vep7 just got released but for those who already started to experiment with this, I'd be curious to get your feedback. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## DANIELE

I also noticed that when I open the track FX Window in Reaper with or without the Raise option enabled in the main plugin it took me a lot of time to open, do you know why?

EDIT
It happens only with the VST3 version of the plugin.


----------



## topaz

Audiodeluxe



ka00 said:


> Anyone know where to get the best price on VEP7 right now? JRR seems slightly cheaper than Time and Space. Anyone know of a better price than $162 or have codes that work on this? Thanks! I swear I'm not cheap, just made poor by vi's.


----------



## topaz

Anyway, finding lots of issues/bugs in 7 (as a newcomer with a short window demo) so will pass on this for now until things are hopefully ironed out.

Back to the wonderful Cubase track disable party 

best
Matt


----------



## Ben

DANIELE said:


> I noticed that in Reaper I see named parameters if I use directly the main plugin, if I use Event Input instead I keep seeing them named "Parameter 1, Parameter 2 etc"...
> 
> Is there a way to extend this to Event Input plugin?


I reported this some weeks ago. I think it is on the todo-list and will implemented soon.


----------



## ka00

topaz said:


> Audiodeluxe



Much obliged. Thank you, topaz!


----------



## Ben

topaz said:


> Anyway, finding lots of issues/bugs in 7 (as a newcomer with a short window demo) so will pass on this for now until things are hopefully ironed out.
> 
> Back to the wonderful Cubase track disable party
> 
> best
> Matt


That makes me curious: during the beta-testing I did not experience major bugs (as well as the others), in contrary: it was for me the most stable VEP experience. I use it now for 2 months on my main machine in my current projects. Right now everything works fine on my machine and I find only minor bugs. 
What is the reason that some have a really good time and others don't?


----------



## ceemusic

ka00 said:


> Anyone know where to get the best price on VEP7 right now? JRR seems slightly cheaper than Time and Space. Anyone know of a better price than $162 or have codes that work on this? Thanks! I swear I'm not cheap, just made poor by vi's.


$ 159.00 at Best Service


----------



## topaz

Because different people use different variables, that's why it makes total sense to have many different experienced testers with different machines and workflow.

I am a tester for a major daw company (among many others in the past) and am always finding bugs big and small that others do not...and vice versa.



Ben said:


> That makes me curious: during the beta-testing I did not experience major bugs (as well as the others), in contrary: it was for me the most stable VEP experience. I use it now for 2 months on my main machine in my current projects. Right now everything works fine on my machine and I find only minor bugs.
> What is the reason that some have a really good time and others don't?


----------



## Dewdman42

azeteg said:


> The MAS plugin is still included. Now that DP10 has VST3 support, the VST3 plugin could possibly be used as well - but we haven't done any testing of the VST3 plugin in DP10 yet.



I couldn’t get the vst3 to work in dp10. Mainly validation problems


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> I reported this some weeks ago. I think it is on the todo-list and will implemented soon.



Ok great! Thank you.


----------



## LinusW

azeteg said:


> It is a crash that could occur if the system didn't previously have Bonjour installed - It's been taken care of - with a new update coming today.


That's not it. That PC used to do rtpMIDI (which uses Bonjour) long time before I got VEP6.


----------



## Dracarys

Anyway to organize folders in version 7 on Windows? Effects are still being listed as developer like on Mac OS. Still using V5 because of this.


----------



## Dewdman42

They didn't seem to include the ability to create user specified organization folders of plugins... For now what you can do is disable the ones you are unlikely to use in VEP....and choose up to 10 favorites.


----------



## Dewdman42

Ben said:


> Could you please push me in the right direction? Where do I get them? Thanks



Were you meaning to ask about midi scripters? Here are two, one free, one not.

https://www.osar.fr/protoplug/

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_PlugNScript/

There are actually quite a lot of VSTi/AUmfx plugins that handle midi only... they don't work on the Cubase and DP midi plugin slot, but can be hosted in an instrument slot, and basically can be used to filter midi that is passed through. The above scripters can work that way. But there are quite a lot of other midi plugins out there, some simple, some not. The problem is that both DP and Cubase don't really provide a way to insert them in front of instruments either (just like VEP), so to use them you have to setup complicated and verbose midi routings in the DAW...its kind of a PITA, especially if you plan to use it on every midi track. LogicPro/Mainstage at least provides proper AUmfx slots in front of the instrument slot on each channel.

In any case, if VEP had something similar as LogicPro with a series of slots to host either VSTi or AUmfx midi plugins _(and actually AUi would probably work too not withstanding that its outside the AU spec)_, then it would be possible to insert VST and AUmfx plugins directly on the VEP channels on front of the instruments. This would greatly improve possibilities with Cubase and DP, not so much LogicPro which already has midifx slots before sending to VEP. But still could be useful there because in LogicPro you typically funnel numerous tracks of midi through a single instrument channel to send to VEP. So you'd have to have more complicated midi filtering that effects numerous midi tracks through a single channel in LPX...whereas if there was a VST/AUmfx slot (or multiple slots even better), in front of the VEP instrument slot, then you could do midi filtering in VEP on a channel by channel basis


----------



## Ben

Thank you for the info. I will look into it, seems interesting.
Cubase allows for Midi fx plugins, but most MIDI VST plugins don't work / fail during scan (and a lot of the plugins I found are 32 bit).
I use the build in MIDI monitor for troubleshooting as well as the MIDI transformer (for example for the 2nd violin transposition trick without transposing my keyswitches).


----------



## Dewdman42

I don't have time today to give you a comprehensive list of midi plugins but there are many out there in 64bit and pass validation fine in my mac based Daw's, but mileage may vary of course.

More and more coming out every day as people learn that is possible.. As I said, the bigger problem is that Cubase (and DP) do not provide an easy way to use them, so most people simply aren't doing it unless its a substantial midi oriented arpeggiator they can't live without or something. Cubase and DP make you jump through hoops. 

For articulation management I feel this is a critical feature that every DAW should make easy...including VEP. There a lot of plugins that can start to provide solutions already if the host provides the slot. And in the future if the slots and host usability is better in this regards, then new plugins will emerge as well, writing midi only plugins in JUCE for example, is actually pretty simple. But nobody knows how to use them because the DAW's all make it complicated.


----------



## Dewdman42

Another way you can experiment with midi plugins is to use Plogue Bidule, Patchworks or some other plugin chainer plugin. They all provide the ability to host VSTi/AU midi plugins inside them and do what the DAW's and VEP currently don't. So you can for example, put PlogueBIdule into the instrument slot on each channel of VEP and then put your actual instrument inside it along with whatever chain of MIDI plugins you want in front of it... And it will work. But in my testing I have found PlogueBidule does not calculate and report latency back to the host, they conciously chose not to. BlueCatAudio's patchworks does handle plugin delay compensation and reports it to the host, but it crashed on me when I tried to use it inside VEP. Also, when you use this approach, while it works, I also lose all the automatic stuff VEP normally does when hosting VIPro, because ViPro is hidden inside the PlogueBidule plugin. So its less then ideal, but it can definitely be done. would be a lot better if VEP just gave us some midfx slots in a manner similar as LPX.


----------



## Dewdman42

Ben said:


> Cubase allows for Midi fx plugins



Also, regarding this comment ^^^, Cubase provides a small set of midi plugins, but they are not VST format. They are a proprietary format and the SDK for making them is not available or supported any more. So its not even possible for crafty new developers to make any new clever midi plugins that will go into that slot. 

DP is the same way.

LogicPro allows AUmfx plugins to sit in their midi fx slot...which means a lot of 3rd party plugins can go there. In fact, as per above, you can usually use Patchworks or PlogueBidule to wrap even just a normal VSTi plugin (that does midi filter) and put it into that Aumfx slot in LogicPro, LPX thinks its just a normal AUmfx, even though its a VST plugin...but it works totally fine. So LogicPro actually does provide the currently best solution with regards to this...not withstanding it has the other problem that multiple midi tracks have to funnel through a single instrument channel to get to VEP..which makes that kind of midi processing much more complicated.


----------



## LinusW

azeteg said:


> Could you please tell me which plug-ins are not validating, or missing?


Just installed the update. Scanning right now, will edit this post and insert more after scanning has been completed.

Non validating VST:
Auburn Sounds Panagement
D16 Toraverb
iZotope Neutron
Lethal Audio Lethal
Magix Independence FX
Steven Slate Drums SSD5
u-he Diva
Voxengo MSED

Non validating AU:
Native Instruments Guitar Rig 5 FX
Roland Cloud SH-2

___
But hey, the rest showed up with 7.0.789 so I can do Omnisphere, Alchemy, Phase Plant etc. again.


----------



## Dracarys

Dewdman42 said:


> They didn't seem to include the ability to create user specified organization folders of plugins... For now what you can do is disable the ones you are unlikely to use in VEP....and choose up to 10 favorites.



Yeah they said they were fixing it since version 6, that was a lie. I guess I'll just start memorizing.


----------



## topaz

And this is why VSL need to cherry pick this forum for testers, get them on an NDA, set up a private testing forum like Jira with bug codes, and hook loyal testers up with nfrs and discounts.

It’s the only way forward 




LinusW said:


> Just installed the update. Scanning right now, will edit this post and insert more after scanning has been completed.
> 
> Non validating VST:
> Auburn Sounds Panagement
> D16 Toraverb
> iZotope Neutron
> Lethal Audio Lethal
> Slate Digital SSD5
> u-he Diva
> Voxengo MSED
> 
> Non validating AU:
> Native Instruments Guitar Rig 5 FX
> Roland Cloud SH-2
> 
> ___
> But hey, the rest showed up with 7.0.789 so I can do Omnisphere, Alchemy, Phase Plant etc. again.


----------



## DANIELE

I'm having various performance issue while I'm building the new template. VEP7 itself seems to go well but Reaper is very unresponsive, I've so many lags and freezes that cause it to be unusable.

I cannot use the VST3 version of the main plugin because take forever to open, well...my experience actually is very bad, VEP7 seems a great piece of software but my DAW doesn't behave well.


----------



## Giscard Rasquin

On Cubase 10 it’s working very smoothly. 
Took out yesterday to set everything up according to what Guy Rowland was suggesting here (thanks!) with everything disabled in VEPRO 7 on my slave and the memory footprint went from almost full (64GB) to 5GB. 
Almost no CPU usage on idle. 
Audio performance meter in Cubase showing barely any activity in my template with about 1000 tracks. 
Happy days. Have to start thinking about what other libraries I can stuff onto my slave now 
This new automation feature is a big time saver.


----------



## Guy Rowland

GuitarG said:


> On Cubase 10 it’s working very smoothly.
> Took out yesterday to set everything up according to what Guy Rowland was suggesting here (thanks!) with everything disabled in VEPRO 7 on my slave and the memory footprint went from almost full (64GB) to 5GB.
> Almost no CPU usage on idle.
> Audio performance meter in Cubase showing barely any activity in my template with about 1000 tracks.
> Happy days. Have to start thinking about what other libraries I can stuff onto my slave now
> This new automation feature is a big time saver.



That's all great news - I went through the same process of.. "wait, so I can now start adding pretty much EVERYTHING and there's barely any resource hit at all?! Whoa!" It's nice to have some of the more niche things which I otherwise forget about.

I just realised something. The reason why VEPro became popular is that it allowed the relatively easy use of working with slaves, and it actively encouraged their use. With 6 and now 7 we've come full circle, and it has made slaves obsolete pretty much. That is massively appealing to me - all the environmental savings, cost savings, time savings and simplicity, with less to go wrong. I know the increase in costs for additional licenses haven't been popular, but here's the thing - we really don't need them any more. If starting from scratch with a clean slate, pretty much the only reason left to have a slave is increased throughput, but modern SSDs / NVMes / MOBOs / CPUs make this pretty marginal too imo.


----------



## Dewdman42

glad to hear that, there is hope. Right now Cubase and VEP are performing like crap for me on Cubase10 mac. Seriously heavy CPU usage and dropouts on a project that plays perfectly fine on Logic and even it was playing fine before on Cubase with VEP6. Not usable. Not sure if there is anything I can change to make it work better.


----------



## laurikoivisto

is there an easy way to disable tracks? Meaning if you have one template/veps project and you want to start every project with all tracks disabled.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Sorry to hear that Dewdman, I'd get active on the VSL support forum / support ticket, they appear to be in super-responsive mode. I'm sure you've been through all the basics of trying out various options to try to narrow down where the problem might be.



laurikoivisto said:


> is there an easy way to disable tracks? Meaning if you have one template/veps project and you want to start every project with all tracks disabled.



In VEP7 there's the ability to disable an entire instance at a time, so that's a quick way to unload everything. The logic there is that if you enable again, it reverts to its previous state, which is exactly how I'd want it. So if you have 10 instruments, of which 3 are enabled, then disable the whole thing and re-enable it, it will re-load those 3 instances rather than instantly loading all 10. AFAIK there's no way to one-click load all. (This may be no bad thing - yesterday I made a stupid mistake and from my DAW accidentally loaded a vast amount of my template in one hit without me noticing. A few minutes later my computer Blue Screen of Deathed, which I'm pretty certain in retrospect was VEP running away with loading far, far too much and hitting a brick wall. Would be nice to put a RAM ceiling on VE Pro come to think of it).

In practice what I've been doing is as I build the template, once I'm done with a set of instruments I disabled them, so my default is always disabled.


----------



## laurikoivisto

Great! I usually switch to a new version 3 months after it's been released just to save myself from bugs etc.


----------



## stigc56

Guy Rowland said:


> Sorry to hear that Dewdman, I'd get active on the VSL support forum / support ticket, they appear to be in super-responsive mode. I'm sure you've been through all the basics of trying out various options to try to narrow down where the problem might be.
> 
> 
> 
> In VEP7 there's the ability to disable an entire instance at a time, so that's a quick way to unload everything. The logic there is that if you enable again, it reverts to its previous state, which is exactly how I'd want it. So if you have 10 instruments, of which 3 are enabled, then disable the whole thing and re-enable it, it will re-load those 3 instances rather than instantly loading all 10. AFAIK there's no way to one-click load all. (This may be no bad thing - yesterday I made a stupid mistake and from my DAW accidentally loaded a vast amount of my template in one hit without me noticing. A few minutes later my computer Blue Screen of Deathed, which I'm pretty certain in retrospect was VEP running away with loading far, far too much and hitting a brick wall. Would be nice to put a RAM ceiling on VE Pro come to think of it).
> 
> In practice what I've been doing is as I build the template, once I'm done with a set of instruments I disabled them, so my default is always disabled.


So you still keep disable pr. instrument and NOT the whole instance?


----------



## Guy Rowland

stigc56 said:


> So you still keep disable pr. instrument and NOT the whole instance?



Yes, exactly. Doing it per instance is another pretty good way to go, but I'd have less in an instance if I did it that way. That would sort of work visually well with the new side bar tabs - have all your libraries in a tab each and then at the start of a project enable the ones you need. You'd likely get through more RAM that way though, and I do prefer the piecemeal stuff. Some libraries are huge on their own, and I might only need an instrument or two from them, so a per-instance is a bit of a halfway house in that regard.


----------



## DANIELE

GuitarG said:


> On Cubase 10 it’s working very smoothly.
> Took out yesterday to set everything up according to what Guy Rowland was suggesting here (thanks!) with everything disabled in VEPRO 7 on my slave and the memory footprint went from almost full (64GB) to 5GB.
> Almost no CPU usage on idle.
> Audio performance meter in Cubase showing barely any activity in my template with about 1000 tracks.
> Happy days. Have to start thinking about what other libraries I can stuff onto my slave now
> This new automation feature is a big time saver.



I tried to reload Reaper and VEP and the problem seems gone, it gave me an exception error when the problem happened.
It seems ok after a restart.



stigc56 said:


> So you still keep disable pr. instrument and NOT the whole instance?



Well I think it all depends on how you set your instances. If you group many instruments for each of them then maybe you don't need to use all of them but only a few for every project, so by enabling all the instance at once could result in a ram load that maybe you don't need.
I leave enabled only the instruments I use most often and then I disable everything.

Now I need to understand well the preserve function.
For example: I build a template with VEP, then while I'm using it in a project I think that I could ad a certain instrument for this and my template for future projects. If I add it and then I save the server project the next time I open it in my template what could I find? All the instance enabled like in the project?

I don't now if it's clear what I mean.


----------



## stigc56

Guy Rowland said:


> Huge thanks to VSL - both my issues fixed in the coming build which they kindly forwarded to me to check.
> 
> Not only does it now read my UVI Workstation and all the automation windows glitches are fixed, there's a whole new feature which I think is golden - In the Automation Window, it is now possible to drag and drop with modifiers an event, and it copies and auto-increments a parameter as follows:
> 
> 
> Hold Alt and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied
> Hold Alt-Shift and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied, CC incremented
> Hold Alt-Cmd (cntrl Windows) and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied, Channel incremented
> This will MASSIVELY speed up my template building. All this in 24 hours and the promise of Wake On Midi to come, outstanding.


Hi
I simply don't know what to drag? If I select some of automation cells they just open! Could you please tell me how you do it?


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer

stigc56 said:


> Hi
> I simply don't know what to drag? If I select some of automation cells they just open! Could you please tell me how you do it?



You need the 7.0.789 (May 3rd) update for the dragging feature. Then it is as simple as click and drag any automation cell while holding the above key combinations.


----------



## stigc56

Okay I need to press before I click! YES Thanks! 
And how are you doing - you moved right?


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer

stigc56 said:


> Okay I need to press before I click! YES Thanks!
> And how are you doing - you moved right?



Yes, good, thanks!


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Is plugin scanning working for you all?
For me it does fail to detect many plugins, for example:
Omnisphere, Valhallaroom, SeventhHeaven, Ivory II pianos... just to name a few.
They are all listed in the "Unknown" section, cannot be enabled there and rescanning does not help either.
Anyone has an idea what can be done?


----------



## Ben

If you have teh latest version from yesterday, wait for the next patch. I think we will get at least one fix in the next few days patching these issues.


----------



## doubleattack

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Is plugin scanning working for you all?
> For me it does fail to detect many plugins, for example:
> Omnisphere, Valhallaroom, SeventhHeaven, Ivory II pianos... just to name a few.
> They are all listed in the "Unknown" section, cannot be enabled there and rescanning does not help either.
> Anyone has an idea what can be done?



Do you have installed the newest update (version 7.0.789)? should solve the problem.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

doubleattack said:


> Do you have installed the newest update (version 7.0.789)? should solve the problem.


Ok thanks. I have that version. I will be waiting for the next update then. Enough other things to discover meanwhile.


----------



## doubleattack

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Ok thanks. I have that version. I will be waiting for the next update then. Enough other things to discover meanwhile.



At least Omnisphere is working here. (I don't run the other plug ins you mentioned.)


----------



## Guy Rowland

One other scanning thing to try - on the recent build, I can't be 100% sure but I don't think it worked first time. On a whim I moved Workstation to a different folder, scanned for changes, and then back again and scanned one more time and since then it's been absolutely fine. The order of vendors isn't alphabetical, so its possible it had in fact popped up on my first scan of this build and I didn't clock it, but I don't think so. Worth a shot anyway for anyone still with issues.


----------



## Callum Hoskin

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Perhaps they will finally announce AU3
> 
> Then after the time I have spent getting to love Cubase Pro 10, I will end up back at Logic's door


It’s a pain though cause I’m on logic, got about 150 instances an while it would b nice to strip that back a lot I kinda don’t really wanna change the template cause it just works and is the same across all my sessions.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

doubleattack said:


> At least Omnisphere is working here. (I don't run the other plug ins you mentioned.)


Ah I sorted out. It works now.
The VST directories have to directly point to the location of the VSTs.
If there are links in the VST folder into other VST folders it does not work (somehow I used it this way with other DAWs in the past).


----------



## DANIELE

I'm trying to test another aspect. I'm looking if my template became smaller (now it is almost 1GB large) by using VEP. Right now I replaced 20 istances of Kontakt but my template became bigger. Shouldn't VEP also reduce the size of projects by storing the data of the various plugins?

Thank you.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

DANIELE said:


> I'm trying to test another aspect. I'm looking if my template became smaller (now it is almost 1GB large) by using VEP. Right now I replaced 20 istances of Kontakt but my template became bigger. Shouldn't VEP also reduce the size of projects by storing the data of the various plugins?
> 
> Thank you.


Are you talking about the project file of your DAW? Or RAM footprint?

If you want the project file of the DAW to become smaller you need to switch VEpro into "Decoupled" mode. But don't forget to save your VEpro instances, because plugin information is not saved into the project file any longer in this mode.


----------



## dgburns

Guy Rowland said:


> Its worth repeating this, as AFAIK there's no documentation on this and they haven't publicised it in any way. If you hadn't read my VE Pro forum post you wouldn't know it exists, and it didn't until a few hours ago.
> 
> So the big deal is that now we can drag and drop within the Automation Window, and choose between modifiers to select your desired auto-increment outcome:
> 
> Hold Alt and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied
> Hold Alt-Shift and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied, CC incremented
> Hold Alt-Cmd (Mac) Alt-Cntrl (Windows) and drag the entry to another entry: assignment copied, Channel incremented
> More important to me than any of the other features in VE Pro 7.



Me pea brain would like to see a video. Are you populating both the source and destination automation entries, or are you required to populate the lists and then modify en mass with your key modifiers. (I’m sure it would be clearer if it was in front of me, but I haven’t updated...yet)


----------



## Ben

dgburns said:


> Me pea brain would like to see a video. Are you populating both the source and destination automation entries, or are you required to populate the lists and then modify en mass with your key modifiers. (I’m sure it would be clearer if it was in front of me, but I haven’t updated...yet)


There are two modes:
parameter automation: Just select which parameter you need. In the DAW you should be now able to see that parameter in the plugin-instance parameter list and you can automate it.
Midi automation: Select the Midi event, and the destination parameter. Now VEP will listen if the setup midi event comes in and if it does it changes the parameter (mostly used with CC)


----------



## DANIELE

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Are you talking about the project file of your DAW? Or RAM footprint?
> 
> If you want the project file of the DAW to become smaller you need to switch VEpro into "Decoupled" mode. But don't forget to save your VEpro instances, because plugin information is not saved into the project file any longer in this mode.



Ok understood. Well, at least I could get a more modular approach.

When I save new version of the project I could decouple from the previous version and preserve with the new one so that the old version became smaller, am I right?


----------



## gpax

Forgive my novice question about installation, but having never installed VEP on my current (new) iMac, does it make sense that VEP 6 opened up and scanned in Logic, even though VEP 7 is what I purchased and installed yesterday? 

I did have a demo on my old machine, though long expired. I can only guess that it was/is still licensed on the Vienna key. But it seems I now have both VEP 6 and 7 installed, though 6 is only accessed as an AU.


----------



## Ben

DANIELE said:


> When I save new version of the project I could decouple from the previous version and preserve with the new one so that the old version became smaller, am I right?


Yes, thats right. If you have a global template you can also activate the auto-save in VEP and don't save the template data in your DAW savefile at all.


----------



## Ben

gpax said:


> Forgive my novice question about installation, but having never installed VEP on my current (new) iMac, does it make sense that VEP 6 opened up and scanned in Logic, even though VEP 7 is what I purchased and installed yesterday?


On Windows that is impossible because the installer removes VEP6 before installing VEP7. Anyways, it is not possible to work with a VEP6 plugin and a VEP7 host and vice versa.


----------



## Dewdman42

I think there is some confusion at the moment related to the non-pro version of Ensemble, which is still v6. I ended up with a mishmash of versions yesterday and it was total chaos. Do not install the "Ensemble and Instruments" package. that is for people that don't own VePro or ViPro. If you don't own ViPro, then you m ay need to install that package but make sure to uncheck the "Vienna Ensemble" checkbox so that it doesn't install non pro Ensemble version6. All kinds of weird stuff happens when you have both installed, like Vepro will scan the non-pro plugin and gets confusing and its even worse when the non pro is version 6.


----------



## synergy543

Guy Rowland said:


> Yes, exactly. Doing it per instance is another pretty good way to go, but I'd have less in an instance if I did it that way. That would sort of work visually well with the new side bar tabs - have all your libraries in a tab each and then at the start of a project enable the ones you need. You'd likely get through more RAM that way though, and I do prefer the piecemeal stuff. Some libraries are huge on their own, and I might only need an instrument or two from them, so a per-instance is a bit of a halfway house in that regard.


Guy, at least with Kontakt instances, why not simply load an instance of purged Kontakt instruments? This way you just enable the instance itself once, and then play only the instruments you want. Do you think this would yield as much RAM saving as your method of enabling/disable per instrument?


----------



## rrichard63

Dewdman42 said:


> ... Do not install the "Ensemble and Instruments" package. that is for people that don't own VePro or ViPro. If you don't own ViPro, then you m ay need to install that package but make sure to uncheck the "Vienna Ensemble" checkbox so that it doesn't install non pro Ensemble version6. All kinds of weird stuff happens when you have both installed ...


Thank you. If this is mentioned in VSL's documentation, I don't remember having seen it. If it's not mentioned, it should be. In fact, it would be nice if the Ensemble Pro and Instruments Pro installers checked for the presence of free versions and offered to uninstall them for you.


----------



## mscp

synergy543 said:


> Guy, at least with Kontakt instances, why not simply load an instance of purged Kontakt instruments? This way you just enable the instance itself once, and then play only the instruments you want. Do you think this would yield as much RAM saving as your method of enabling/disable per instrument?



Buses and Kontakt instances also add data to RAM. That's why the enable/disable way is better to some.


----------



## gpax

Dewdman42 said:


> I think there is some confusion at the moment related to the non-pro version of Ensemble, which is still v6. I ended up with a mishmash of versions yesterday and it was total chaos. Do not install the "Ensemble and Instruments" package. that is for people that don't own VePro or ViPro. If you don't own ViPro, then you m ay need to install that package but make sure to uncheck the "Vienna Ensemble" checkbox so that it doesn't install non pro Ensemble version6. All kinds of weird stuff happens when you have both installed, like Vepro will scan the non-pro plugin and gets confusing and its even worse when the non pro is version 6.


This seems to be the chaos I'm in. I do, however, own VIPro, which I had just updated. Any tips for how you cleaned up the mess?


----------



## Dewdman42

i personally ran the uninstaller in everything but I also used easyfind to locate all lingering Vienna and elicenser files that I could find anywhere in my system. Then installed fresh elicenser and fresh vepro and fresh vipro.


----------



## Ben

The configuration files of all VSL apps are under %appdata%\VSL\ (Windows).


----------



## Dewdman42

Not in Mac 

I found some all over the place and removed them all. Probably didn’t need to remove everything but I wanted it absolutely clean. I found old preference files that look like they had been renamed somewhere along the line by vsl or something. It was probably a good idea to clean house


----------



## gpax

Dewdman42 said:


> i personally ran the uninstaller in everything but I also used easyfind to locate all lingering Vienna and elicenser files that I could find anywhere in my system. Then installed fresh elicenser and fresh vepro and fresh vipro.


Thank you again for your input. In hindsight, I am thinking VE 6 got installed when I set up my new Mac a couple of weeks ago, via reinstalling the VI which was also unnecessary, as I have VI Pro. 

For the duration, I just did an uninstall of that package, and it is now gone from Logic. You have me rethinking I may need to extract any potential, residual files, though. Thanks again for the input.


----------



## kenose

Just curious if anyone else is experiencing this-- I'm noticing that in instances in projects I created before the latest update (7.0.789) I can't copy the automation fields in the MIDI controllers tab using the new drag/drop feature. If I make a brand new instance, the drag/copy works fine.


----------



## Guy Rowland

kenose said:


> Just curious if anyone else is experiencing this-- I'm noticing that in instances in projects I created before the latest update (7.0.789) I can't copy the automation fields in the MIDI controllers tab using the new drag/drop feature. If I make a brand new instance, the drag/copy works fine.



I’m not getting that in Windows - definitely added to an existing instance trouble-free.


----------



## kenose

Guy Rowland said:


> I’m not getting that in Windows - definitely added to an existing instance trouble-free.


I seem to have found the cause, I had some fields in the parameters tab populated in the older instances. It seems like if I populate fields in the parameters tab before I add anything to the MIDI controllers tab, the drag/copy doesn't work. If I populate a field in the MIDI controller tab first, and then add a parameter, the copy/past works fine from that point onward. Am I missing a reason why this would be the case, or is it a bug?


----------



## DANIELE

I don't understand where should I apply drag and drop, I already looked in the manual but I don't understand what is referring to.

What can I drag and where can I drop it?


----------



## composingkeys

Dewdman42 said:


> glad to hear that, there is hope. Right now Cubase and VEP are performing like crap for me on Cubase10 mac. Seriously heavy CPU usage and dropouts on a project that plays perfectly fine on Logic and even it was playing fine before on Cubase with VEP6. Not usable. Not sure if there is anything I can change to make it work better.


Did you make sure ASIO Guard was disabled for VE PRO?


----------



## Dewdman42

I had it turned off globally, I did not yet do it per plugin. I will try that. Any other tips anyone has to kick cubase mac into better CPU behavior? I'm honestly regretting my purchase of Cubase based on this performance its simply awful compared to LogicPro...and DP's performance is somewhere halfway in between.


----------



## Ben

DANIELE said:


> I don't understand where should I apply drag and drop, I already looked in the manual but I don't understand what is referring to.
> 
> What can I drag and where can I drop it?


Thats a new feature added just in the last version. There should be a hint in the changelog.


----------



## DANIELE

I have perfomance problems again, Reaper randomly start to stutter, then it goes well again, then stutter again, I don't know why...
This happens in an empty template while I'm building one using VEP. Is there anyone that experience the same problem?

How many threads per instance should I set?


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> Thats a new feature added just in the last version. There should be a hint in the changelog.



I read it in the manual and it concern automation but when I try to apply those shortcuts nothing happens.


----------



## Guy Rowland

DANIELE said:


> I don't understand where should I apply drag and drop, I already looked in the manual but I don't understand what is referring to.
> 
> What can I drag and where can I drop it?



AFAIK it's not yet in the manual. It's on the midi controller Automation Window, drag an event to a blank slot with the modifier(s), and a new event is created.


----------



## DANIELE

Guy Rowland said:


> AFAIK it's not yet in the manual. It's on the midi controller Automation Window, drag an event to a blank slot with the modifier(s), and a new event is created.



I tried it and it doesn't work. When I press alt+drag it opens the menu, the same as I simply click on it.


----------



## dgburns

Ben said:


> There are two modes:
> parameter automation: Just select which parameter you need. In the DAW you should be now able to see that parameter in the plugin-instance parameter list and you can automate it.
> Midi automation: Select the Midi event, and the destination parameter. Now VEP will listen if the setup midi event comes in and if it does it changes the parameter (mostly used with CC)



No, the question I was asking is the new methodology for quickly populating the automation mapping in VePro7. I quite familiar with V6 and the automation mapping window, it's just tedious assigning one at a time. 

What's the new method?


----------



## Guy Rowland

DANIELE said:


> I tried it and it doesn't work. When I press alt+drag it opens the menu, the same as I simply click on it.



If you're on the latest build, I'm not sure I can help you further, sorry - out of ideas. Modifiers and dragging is all I do - I'd head over to the VSL forum / support.


----------



## Guy Rowland

dgburns said:


> No, the question I was asking is the new methodology for quickly populating the automation mapping in VePro7. I quite familiar with V6 and the automation mapping window, it's just tedious assigning one at a time.
> 
> What's the new method?



As described above (except it works for me!) - create blank events, and populate the first as normal. Then Alt-drag for copy, Alt-Shift-Drag for increment CC, Alt-Cmd-drag (in Windows Alt-Cntrl-drag) for increment channel). Massive time-saver.


----------



## Ben

Under "MyDownloads" select "SoftwareManuals", order by date and open the Changelog (not the manual). Last entry in changelog:


----------



## Ben

The changelog is very useful to get a quick idea what changed and to find the smaller quality-of-life improvements like these automation mapping modifiers.


----------



## jneebz

Any chance any of the power VE Pro users (@Guy Rowland, @Mihkel Zilmer, etc.) plan on a video describing a Cubase-VE Pro 7 template procedure? I'd actually pay for that...


----------



## Guy Rowland

jneebz said:


> Any chance any of the power VE Pro users (@Guy Rowland, @Mihkel Zilmer, etc.) plan on a video describing a Cubase-VE Pro 7 template procedure? I'd actually pay for that...



£1.50 and its all yours.

I'll do one for 7 to add to the ones I did for 6, but it makes sense to wait until Wake On Midi is part of the deal. As it is right now, I'm using all the same techniques as for 6, except the really tedious manual adding of every parameter is massively sped up by the alt-dragging thing.

Here's the detailed one for 6:


----------



## jneebz

Guy Rowland said:


> but it makes sense to wait until Wake On Midi is part of the deal



Makes perfect sense. Thank you Guy...very generous as always! PM me your PayPal email address!


----------



## droman92

Very excited that it's officially out now! Now to upgrade my version 6 template and have it all work well in Nuendo. 



jneebz said:


> Any chance any of the power VE Pro users (@Guy Rowland, @Mihkel Zilmer, etc.) plan on a video describing a Cubase-VE Pro 7 template procedure? I'd actually pay for that...



I'm by no means one of the VEPro power users you mentioned, but I do plan to make an entire video series on how to build a VEPro 7 setup with Cubase/Nuendo (I use Nuendo). I have a rather large template with dedicated servers in a machine room over 10Gb networking . So once I migrate everything over, I'll begin a YouTube video series from scratch.

There's one gentleman over on YouTube with a 3 part series on how to build the template, including expression maps integration. That was with version 6 although. I forgot his name, but thanks to him, I've been able to build my own version of my template


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Dewdman42 said:


> I had it turned off globally, I did not yet do it per plugin. I will try that. Any other tips anyone has to kick cubase mac into better CPU behavior? I'm honestly regretting my purchase of Cubase based on this performance its simply awful compared to LogicPro...and DP's performance is somewhere halfway in between.


I installed Windows 10 on my MacPro for this very reason :/

I just could not accept that Steinberg had willingly sold me a half-performing product because it is on macOS
I am still not sure why this is the case, but I want what I paid for. Not half of the monies worth...


----------



## Dewdman42

That is sad news. And lame. Well, if Apple blows it on the next macPro, then I may end up switching to Windows, and then I'd probably use Cubase, but that is probably years away, hopefully never because I don't want to leave OSX. I will go back to my regularly schedule LogicPro and DP challenges. I guess Cubase might work for some stuff so I'll mess with it now and then, but man...it is literally double the CPU use of Logic playing back 100 tracks through VEP. Where Logic is humming along at 20-50% to play it, Cubase is peaking the 90's. Too close for comfort. I haven't even tried any synth plugins in it yet.


----------



## composingkeys

Dewdman42 said:


> That is sad news. And lame. Well, if Apple blows it on the next macPro, then I may end up switching to Windows, and then I'd probably use Cubase, but that is probably years away, hopefully never because I don't want to leave OSX. I will go back to my regularly schedule LogicPro and DP challenges. I guess Cubase might work for some stuff so I'll mess with it now and then, but man...it is literally double the CPU use of Logic playing back 100 tracks through VEP. Where Logic is humming along at 20-50% to play it, Cubase is peaking the 90's. Too close for comfort. I haven't even tried any synth plugins in it yet.



As a Cubase user on PC, I've found that the less instances in VE PRO, the better. Can't confirm but this may help you on a Mac running Cubase. With Logic, it tends to be the reverse where you want many instances with less instruments in each one.


----------



## Dewdman42

true except I have multiport templates working great on Logic so I can do one instance there too....and CPU is getting half the use compared to Cubase. 

The main reason for single instance, in my view, is that in VEP you have to configure the number of threads per instance. So if you are going to use 4 instances on a 12 core system, you really would only want maybe 4 threads per instance or something like that. Then if you have an instance that isn't doing much, you have under-utilization of cores. So I see real benefits to single instance also, but as it turns out I am happily doing that with LogicPro already using my multiport templates. So Cubase doesn't score enough of a point there to make up for their outrageously poor cpu performance.

I will say at least, even though the CPU is peaking out 95% and in the red...Its not necessarily getting drop outs while it does that. But I don't know what happens when I try to push some synths or other plugins heavy in processing.


----------



## droman92

Dewdman42 said:


> That is sad news. And lame. Well, if Apple blows it on the next macPro, then I may end up switching to Windows, and then I'd probably use Cubase, but that is probably years away, hopefully never because I don't want to leave OSX. I will go back to my regularly schedule LogicPro and DP challenges. I guess Cubase might work for some stuff so I'll mess with it now and then, but man...it is literally double the CPU use of Logic playing back 100 tracks through VEP. Where Logic is humming along at 20-50% to play it, Cubase is peaking the 90's. Too close for comfort. I haven't even tried any synth plugins in it yet.



I too was on that same boat. Had a spec'd out Mac Pro and Cubase felt poorly optimized (I even contemplated switching to LPX) Cubase worked okay on macOS but thankfully I also have a fully built PC as one of my workstations. Once I transferred everything over, it was night and day. As well as having Thunderbolt 3 on my PC, it all made sense. All of my servers are running Windows as well as my main host. Absolutely no issues. Overclocked my host a bit too 

I use my Mac Pro as a Pro Tools only machine now. As Pro Tools just runs better on macOS I feel. Same kind of story as with Cubase on Windows.

I'd suggest switching to a PC if you enjoy Cubase/Nuendo. Otherwise go with Logic Pro X. The optimization on macOS is what makes Logic so great.


----------



## Dewdman42

yea no, thanks though. I have a very long hate relationship with microsoft windows. Not leaving OS X any time soon, I can live without cubase if it sucks on mac


----------



## droman92

Dewdman42 said:


> yea no, thanks though. I have a very long hate relationship with microsoft windows. Not leaving OS X any time soon, I can live without cubase if it sucks on mac



Haha, no worries. Windows 10 has come a loooong way. Especially in the audio realm. I use to be a Mac guy but things have changed quite a bit now. I love both platforms but Windows is taking the edge.

Either way, I respect anyone's decision and opinion


----------



## Dewdman42

I believe you but its on many many fronts that I really loath Microsoft. The thoughts of the windows registry alone makes me want to vommit. I was a unix developer for 20 years, I'm very comfortable with all the unix stuff that comes with OS X under the covers. I will not go to windows until Apple forces me to through crappy hardware, which they very well may do! But they're not there yet.


----------



## jneebz

Dewdman42 said:


> I had it turned off globally, I did not yet do it per plugin. I will try that. Any other tips anyone has to kick cubase mac into better CPU behavior? I'm honestly regretting my purchase of Cubase based on this performance its simply awful compared to LogicPro...and DP's performance is somewhere halfway in between.


Sorry if I missed it, but what are your system specs?


----------



## Dewdman42

see my signature.


----------



## novaburst

Do you guys see a CPU spike on this new version or is it performing as good as VEpro 6 or even 5,
over on the VSL Forum i have seen one a couple of post complaining about CPU hit


----------



## jneebz

Dewdman42 said:


> see my signature.


wow, I swore I checked that! thanks


----------



## Dewdman42

novaburst said:


> Do you guys see a CPU spike on this new version or is it performing as good as VEpro 6 or even 5,
> over on the VSL Forum i have seen one a couple of post complaining about CPU hit



What I'm seeing is an extra 15-20% cpu cranks on whenever the VEP gui is visible. If I minimize, then CPU drops back down to reasonable levels. This even happens when nothing is playing back. I never noticed this in VEP6. I don't know if it was happening there I just never noticed it. Anyway its definitely happening now.


----------



## jneebz

Dewdman42 said:


> What I'm seeing is an extra 15-20% cpu cranks on whenever the VEP gui is visible. If I minimize, then CPU drops back down to reasonable levels. This even happens when nothing is playing back. I never noticed this in VEP6. I don't know if it was happening there I just never noticed it. Anyway its definitely happening now.


Crap. Well, as a Mac user I'm definitely waiting on my install of VEP 7. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Dewdman42

I'm actually thinking of rolling back to VEP6, but I'm not working on anything critical at the moment so just going to roll with it for a while. They'll sort it out. Unless you REALLY are in need one of the new features...most of which are kind of minor frankly..I don't think you're missing much. Nice little improvements, but nothing that can't wait a month or two until the dust settles.


----------



## Guy Rowland

novaburst said:


> Do you guys see a CPU spike on this new version or is it performing as good as VEpro 6 or even 5,
> over on the VSL Forum i have seen one a couple of post complaining about CPU hit



I see others posting huge improvements there. In truth, I'm not sure I see much difference in either direction, but I sure haven't seen it being any worse. I'm not saying that others don't have any issues, mind.

I think for many people, Wake On Midi will be the big gamechanger in 7 when it arrives. Now we know it's coming, it makes sense to wait until then before building new templates. IMO the promise of it is enticing enough to encourage folks to buy now in the sale period (runs out on May 16th I think).


----------



## DANIELE

By looking at Parameters Panel I'm thinking it should be useful to add an "X" button at the left (or right) of every parameter row to clear only the row I want to delete. Right now everytime I have to go inside the menu and click on "NONE" to get this.

I'd like to submit a request in the VSL site, where should I do it? I cannot find where to post request, maybe I should post directly in the VEP forum thread...


----------



## Guy Rowland

Daniele - up, that's all I did, post it in the forum.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Dewdman42 said:


> I believe you but its on many many fronts that I really loath Microsoft. The thoughts of the windows registry alone makes me want to vommit. I was a unix developer for 20 years, I'm very comfortable with all the unix stuff that comes with OS X under the covers. I will not go to windows until Apple forces me to through crappy hardware, which they very well may do! But they're not there yet.


The Registry is the enemy still, I have to agree. If Cubase or Logic ran on Linux I would be over there learning that now


----------



## Audio Birdi

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> The Registry is the enemy still, I have to agree. If Cubase or Logic ran on Linux I would be over there learning that now


Wish Linux was an option for software, surely it wouldn't be too difficult to port macOS apps to Linux, it would increase efficiency potentially and still have a very stable OS too!


----------



## novaburst

Dewdman42 said:


> What I'm seeing is an extra 15-20% cpu cranks on whenever the VEP gui is visible. If I minimize, then CPU drops back down to reasonable levels. This even happens when nothing is playing back. I never noticed this in VEP6. I don't know if it was happening there I just never noticed it. Anyway its definitely happening now.



ok thanks



Guy Rowland said:


> I think for many people, Wake On Midi will be the big gamechanger in 7



I thought 6 already had this probably my mistake, i can load VI instruments with out the patches but when i press a key they all get loaded is this another term than wake on midi


----------



## Guy Rowland

novaburst said:


> I thought 6 already had this probably my mistake, i can load VI instruments with out the patches but when i press a key they all get loaded is this another term than wake on midi



Not a keyswitch, rather play ANY key then it loads automatically. In 6 (and currently 7) that needs midi transformer type kludging in the DAW (as does a keyswitch for that matter).


----------



## Audio Birdi

I just installed 7, I have an instance per PLAY / Kontakt instance as the Event input plugin for VEP has a delay when using a midi keyboard to trigger notes.

Each channel inside each instance is disabled by default.

I was wondering if others have experienced a lot slower loading per instance in 7 compared to 6? Opening my project currently and it's vastly slower. I'm hoping it's a first time project opening thing.

Edit: 
Tried a few times with blank instances and full instances. Seems a lot slower for now. Got a crash too with the new automation window. Sent both issues to VSL support to see what they say also.


----------



## Dewdman42

I need to do a proper test with real measurements but it does seem a little slower to load.

Vsl has sent me a beta to try regarding cpu load when gui is active. Can’t try it until tonight


----------



## Shredoverdrive

Wishful question : for those who already have installed and tried it, is Vepro 7 easier to incorporate into an existing template or is it the same as in Vepro 6? 
Thanks


----------



## Ben

Shredoverdrive said:


> Wishful question : for those who already have installed and tried it, is Vepro 7 easier to incorporate into an existing template or is it the same as in Vepro 6?
> Thanks


Way more easier. If you have VEP, just install it. If you want to extract your template from the DAW into VEP, VEP7 has some nice features that will help you speeding things up. I will try to write a quick summary with everything thats new.


----------



## droman92

Just updated to version 7. Stupid simple and everything works well. No issues thus far


----------



## Audio Birdi

I'm liking that finally disabling channels in VEP 7 doesn't forget the automation mappings for FX plugins when re-enabling them. That drove me nuts with plugins in VEP 6 so ended up hosting all those inside my DAW initially. Now it's all there without issues.

Hoping the loading of instances speeds up for updates in future.

@Guy Rowland I was wondering where VSL mentioned Wake-on MIDI is in the works for VEP 7?


----------



## Guy Rowland

Audio Birdi said:


> @Guy Rowland I was wondering where VSL mentioned Wake-on MIDI is in the works for VEP 7?



Azetag's posts on p27 here.

Really it should be a relatively simple coding job (I hate typing this as a non-coder, I just imagine the hollow laughs from staff!) but all the infrastructure is already good to go. It's just a little sniffer line of code that looks for midi note on on a channel, and if the channel hosting the VST it is connected to is disabled, then enable it. I can only imagine VSL themselves hadn't quite recognised the significance of what these relatively few lines of code would do for people's workflows. Once its there, they should do a little tutorial video to show the power and ease-of-setup of having this as part of a disabled template.


----------



## Shubus

azeteg said:


> This is something we still have on our feature todo list. We've just been debating which events should trigger this though - I suppose only note-ons would make sense.


I just want to thank Martin for being here & listening to our concerns.


----------



## Ben

As promised here is a list with whats new and improved with VEP7
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/vep7-whats-new-and-improved-v7-0-789-2019-05-04.81869/
I plan to update this list as soon as there is something new.


----------



## DANIELE

Another strange behavior, after a little time I'm working on VEP by loading libraries it slows down a lot and take forever to load instrument in my kontakt instances. 

There's something strange for sure.


----------



## Dewdman42

I keep getting elicenser errors, that basically lock up VEP and it has to be killed. I've reset, reinstalled and maintained my dongles a few times already. Its beyond annoying.


----------



## Ben

DANIELE said:


> Another strange behavior, after a little time I'm working on VEP by loading libraries it slows down a lot and take forever to load instrument in my kontakt instances.


Some performance tipps:

1) Make sure that your thread per instance count matches your CPU core count and the instance count.
For example if you are using 20 instances, your CPU has 4 cores and you have set an instance thread count of 4, VEP will run 80 threads on 4 cores, which is really bad for performance.

2) [WIN] If you have enough RAM, lower your virtual memory under Advanced system settings / Virtual memory. I have set it to only 1GB. That limits what Windows can put on your harddrive to free up RAM. I had disabled it but then the computer just freezes if the RAM gets almost filled.

3) [WIN 10] Check with the task manager that there is no process that slows down loading (sometimes license checks have bad impact on loading performance). Also check if one of your drives is the reason for this (you can see the load on it under the performance tab of the task manager)


----------



## Ben

Dewdman42 said:


> I keep getting elicenser errors, that basically lock up VEP and it has to be killed. I've reset, reinstalled and maintained my dongles a few times already. Its beyond annoying.


Make sure your eLicenser does not loose connection whenever an eLicenser application is running, as it crashes the eLicenser service. 
Also USB-hubs can be the reason for this, especially those without additional energy supply. Try connecting you eLicenser directly on the back of your computer / on the notebook.


----------



## Vonk

Dewdman42 said:


> I keep getting elicenser errors, that basically lock up VEP and it has to be killed. I've reset, reinstalled and maintained my dongles a few times already. Its beyond annoying.


Me too. I can guarantee an elicense error message if I exit without saving, which is the norm for my template setup. I can't see this happening on my servers but it prevents remote shutdown so is nuisance. Happens on both win 10 & win 7 servers.


----------



## novaburst

Dewdman42 said:


> I keep getting elicenser errors, that basically lock up VEP and it has to be killed. I've reset, reinstalled and maintained my dongles a few times already. Its beyond annoying.



move your license to another dongle boot with it then drag them back again


----------



## 24dBFS

Hi VEPro wizards!
Does anybody know if it's possible to edit the Automation settings in a text editor instead the Automation panel. It takes ages to assign big templates even with the drag/drop. 
Maybe there is a way to edit it some other way?
Other than that I am very pleased with the VEP7. Much more stable than the VEP6 here on Windows 10 and feels quicker too.


----------



## Dewdman42

It’s not loosing connection. It’s in my cheese grater macpro and has been troublefree for months on vep6


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

I have a noobie question. 

I am currently running VEPro on one computer, but plan to get a second computer later this year.
Can I buy the second license now and take advantage of the sale? 

Also, am I right in that I won't need a second e-licensor? 

Thank you!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Audio Birdi said:


> I was wondering if others have experienced a lot slower loading per instance in 7 compared to 6?



No, I haven't.


----------



## D Halgren

TigerTheFrog said:


> I have a noobie question.
> 
> I am currently running VEPro on one computer, but plan to get a second computer later this year.
> Can I buy the second license now and take advantage of the sale?
> 
> Also, am I right in that I won't need a second e-licensor?
> 
> Thank you!


You will need an e-licensor for each computer that you run a server on.


----------



## C-Wave

D Halgren said:


> You will need an e-licensor for each computer that you run a server on.


Yes you can buy it at sale price and use it later (nothing new) and yes you need a second license on a second elicenser for the second computer.


----------



## rrichard63

D Halgren said:


> You will need an e-licensor for each computer that you run a server on.


To (attempt to) clarify further, "each computer you run a [VEPro] server on" might not include the main computer running your DAW. If you are running VEPro server only on the second machine, then the main machine does not need a eLicenser to run the VEPro plugin in your DAW. But you might still need eLicensers for both machines if, for example, your DAW is Cubase, or if you have VSL libraries or Halion libraries on both machines.

And if you are going to run VEPro server only on the second machine, then you don't need a second license for it.


----------



## C-Wave

rrichard63 said:


> To (attempt to) clarify further, "each computer you run a [VEPro] server on" might not include the main computer running your DAW. If you are running VEPro server only on the second machine, then the main machine does not need a eLicenser to run the VEPro plugin in your DAW. But you might still need eLicensers for both machines if, for example, your DAW is Cubase, or if you have VSL libraries or Halion libraries on both machines.
> 
> And if you are going to run VEPro server only on the second machine, then you don't need a second license for it.


Yes, so a VSL VEPro license in a elicenser dongle connected to each computer running VEPro Server.


----------



## Ben

24dBFS said:


> Hi VEPro wizards!
> Does anybody know if it's possible to edit the Automation settings in a text editor instead the Automation panel. It takes ages to assign big templates even with the drag/drop.
> Maybe there is a way to edit it some other way?
> Other than that I am very pleased with the VEP7. Much more stable than the VEP6 here on Windows 10 and feels quicker too.


No, but this would be a nice feature. But the thing is: what happens when there is an error in the text? This is a little harder to code.


----------



## Dewdman42

An importer that can read JSON or something would be extremely beneficial to many people I think. I can copy and paste with a vi editor way faster then any GUI table control.

Barring that, it would be nice if there was a way to somehow save little snippets of assignments that can be loaded into an instance...so that I could save an automation preset for some instrument and easily add it to any instance template I'm setting up...or add a few saved ones like that easily. Havint to do it manually every time you create a new instance from scratch...is....manual labor.


----------



## Guavadude

I’m surprised there isn’t a Duplicate Instance function. Even just not having to add a Kontakt inst and a master bus over and over would save time. If I could duplicate the frame work then I can quickly swap Violins to Violas or whatever.


----------



## Ben

Guavadude said:


> I’m surprised there isn’t a Duplicate Instance function. Even just not having to add a Kontakt inst and a master bus over and over would save time. If I could duplicate the frame work then I can quickly swap Violins to Violas or whatever.


Just save the instance, click on the new instance button in the instance list and load the saved instance.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Yes, I guess you could save a template instance effectively, and just reload it from the recent file list. I'm not sure it would save me all that much time though in truth.



24dBFS said:


> Hi VEPro wizards!
> Does anybody know if it's possible to edit the Automation settings in a text editor instead the Automation panel. It takes ages to assign big templates even with the drag/drop.
> Maybe there is a way to edit it some other way?



I'll confess that idea makes my blood turn cold - the thought of finicky copying and pasting text, renaming, making sure I don't have typos in very long character strings... urgh. I can't believe that would ever be quicker than the current drag and drop method.

I'm slightly staggered that you seem casually dismissive of this new wonder-feature as still being too slow, that is massively quicker for me than the old method. I can now do an entire 16 channels in a minute or so, previously it would take 10. What is holding you up?


----------



## 24dBFS

Hi Ben, Hi Guy - thanks for chiming in!
Like I said, I love the drag & drop and I think of course this is a great improvement hence I am using it now BUT dealing with huge templates or preparing metaframes for lets say particular library with all the articulations etc. could be much faster when using Sublime or anything similar. I do custom work for my clients and all the stuff I need (articulation names, names of the ports...) is organized in excel anyways so having a way to do it "the old scripting way" would save me few hours that I could use for writing music (don't we all ) but of course I understand how messy it might turn if used without caution. I imagine internally it is an XML file that is created anyway and having the access might be useful for some users. 
Also adjusting a template for the use with different systems (desktop in the studio vs. a laptop rig on the road) that might use different MIDI ports would be easier to tweak this way IMO but, as a developer myself, I can also totally understand that Vienna folks might be against it due to the possible errors on the user side that would mean more work for the support team on the Vienna's side. Might be a nice option though  (still hoping) 
Cheers!


----------



## Ben

@24dBFS Post your idea in the VSL Forum! They will then consider it and give you feedback. Maybe you have luck and it will make its way to the wish-list 
I would also like to see an automation mapping export to a json or xml file, that can be imported. That would allow for customization (export your Excel tables to the xml / json file via VB, import into VEP).
Would be a great imrovement imo, but I can imaging that a stable implementation of such feature is a little nightmare.


----------



## jonathanwright

It seems many on here are using VEPro 7 on a single machine, and taking advantage of the disabled instance features.

I have to ask though, what are the benefits of this approach in Cubase, when it already has disabled tracks functionality? Is it stability? CPU usage? Is it worth the trade off of the additional routing required?


----------



## 24dBFS

jonathanwright said:


> It seems many on here are using VEPro 7 on a single machine, and taking advantage of the disabled instance features.
> 
> I have to ask though, what are the benefits of this approach in Cubase, when it already has disabled tracks functionality? Is it stability? CPU usage? Is it worth the trade off of the additional routing required?



For my workflow it is much faster to change sessions without the need to constantly load samples into RAM. Once all the libraries I need are up and running in the VEP I can quickly jump between projects.
Cubase runs much stable and smoother if it only takes care of plugins and some vst synth in my case, all the orchestral stuff is loaded into VEP. The set up isn't really that complicated IMO. It is also worth mentioning that even disabled tracks in Cubase need some CPU/RAM so it is not completely as they are not there at all. The automation in VEP is so good now I can disable/enable all I need from within Cubase without even touching VEP, and I mean single tracks, tracks groups and whole instances. I was a big supporter of enable/disable tracks in Cubase as they came in ver.8 (an still am) but I came back to VEP since for me this is still much better workflow especially for TV series projects and other jobs where a lot of jumping between sessions is a must. I think it depends on how you use Cubase and what are the projects you are dealing with. You can always download the demo and give it few days test run.
Cheers!


----------



## Audio Birdi

On my PC, VEP 7 keeps crashing and crashing and crashing when trying to open older server projects from VEP 6. No crash dumps are being created either. Even when simply creating and importing saved instances, it's crashing. Seems very buggy for an initial release. VEP 6 was a lot more stable on initial release :/. I've tried uninstalling and re-installing VEP 7 and the same things keep happening frustratingly.a


----------



## Ben

Audio Birdi said:


> On my PC, VEP 7 keeps crashing and crashing and crashing when trying to open older server projects from VEP 6. No crash dumps are being created either. Even when simply creating and importing saved instances, it's crashing. Seems very buggy for an initial release. VEP 6 was a lot more stable on initial release :/. I've tried uninstalling and re-installing VEP 7 and the same things keep happening frustratingly.a


Take a look if there is something in one of the log-files (%appdata%\VSL\Vienna Ensemble Pro\) and send them with a description and if possible the VEP6 project directly to [email protected]


----------



## ChazC

jonathanwright said:


> It seems many on here are using VEPro 7 on a single machine, and taking advantage of the disabled instance features.
> 
> I have to ask though, what are the benefits of this approach in Cubase, when it already has disabled tracks functionality? Is it stability? CPU usage? Is it worth the trade off of the additional routing required?



On large templates using VEP to host your VI's on a single machine reduces auto save times from minutes to seconds. That's the primary reason I use it.


----------



## Grizzlymv

ChazC said:


> On large templates using VEP to host your VI's on a single machine reduces auto save times from minutes to seconds. That's the primary reason I use it.


For me, it also decrease significantly the CPR size, which end up with much more free HDD space and with faster saving time as @ChazC mentionned. Everything in Cubase would end up with CPR file of about 700 Mb-1gb each. Having all the orchestral libs in VEP reduced it to 240 Mb. And once I figure out how to automate the enabling/disabling of VEP (still doing it manually as I can't get my head around how to automate this properly from Cubase to VEP), then I'll probably move everything in VEP but the few synths and other libs I tweak on a per cue. And as other mentionned as well, Cubase is more stable and quicker to react that way.


----------



## Ben

Grizzlymv said:


> And once I figure out how to automate the enabling/disabling of VEP (still doing it manually as I can't get my head around how to automate this properly from Cubase to VEP)


Use the parameter automation in VEP and select disable instance. Then use the instance automation in Cubase, select the parameter from the drop-down and set the value (on/ off). So your cubase project will remember which instance to enable / disable wenn loaded.


----------



## Guy Rowland

jonathanwright said:


> It seems many on here are using VEPro 7 on a single machine, and taking advantage of the disabled instance features.
> 
> I have to ask though, what are the benefits of this approach in Cubase, when it already has disabled tracks functionality? Is it stability? CPU usage? Is it worth the trade off of the additional routing required?



Lots of excellent answers already. Here's a total of all my own reasons.

1 - CPU use. Next to Cubase, its about 50% more efficient. That equates to having a system twice as good as the one you actually have.
2 - Load / Save times. Running decoupled, autosaves are almost instant. Loading projects far quicker, much less of a chore to go between projects.
3 - Cubase Project sizes. My template is about 28mb and contains over 1,500 tracks. Given auto-generated backups and multiple cues, this rapidly adds up to hundreds of gigs in savings. Auto-backing up to the cloud in Dropbox trivial.
4 - Cubase generally runs better. On bigger projects, there's far less for it to do, and its all the happier for it.

There was until very recently a (5), because mutli-out disabled tracks didn't work properly but that was fixed in Cubase build 10.0.20.


----------



## jonathanwright

Guy Rowland said:


> Lots of excellent answers already. Here's a total of all my own reasons.
> 
> 1 - CPU use. Next to Cubase, its about 50% more efficient. That equates to having a system twice as good as the one you actually have.
> 2 - Load / Save times. Running decoupled, autosaves are almost instant. Loading projects far quicker, much less of a chore to go between projects.
> 3 - Cubase Project sizes. My template is about 28mb and contains over 1,500 tracks. Given auto-generated backups and multiple cues, this rapidly adds up to hundreds of gigs in savings. Auto-backing up to the cloud in Dropbox trivial.
> 4 - Cubase generally runs better. On bigger projects, there's far less for it to do, and its all the happier for it.
> 
> There was until very recently a (5), because mutli-out disabled tracks didn't work properly but that was fixed in Cubase build 10.0.20.



Thanks @Guy Rowland, @Grizzlymv, @ChazC and @24dBFS, really helpful.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Guys (and Guy),

A quick question please...

When you setup a library which has a kontakt patches with individual articulations, and also a single patch with multiple articulations (like say Spitfire Chamber Strings), which do you use ?

Using expression maps, You could go either route. Libraries like Symphobia you only have key switches on each patch so you haven’t any choice in the matter.

I am wondering which one would be more economic on resources....


----------



## Guy Rowland

For me it varies from library to library Michael. Some of the modern complex patches are really quite heavy on RAM use even without any samples loaded. The earlier versions of Symphobia 1 had very simple patches, and 10 of them actually uses less RAM than the newer ones I think (but accordingly they do a lot less - they had separate patches for close and stage mics initially). For MSB I found i preferred to have longs and shorts separate, as I wanted to control them differently (key velocity for shorts, CC for longs).

Obviously there's nothing especially pertinent to VE Pro here, I don't think there's much difference hosting there as opposed to anything else really. The more midi and audio tracks you have the more there is to set up I guess.


----------



## DANIELE

I have another strange behavior I start seeing yesterday, when I open a kontakt instance and try to replace an instrument or move with right/left arrow it takes literally forever. Why?


----------



## Ben

With the update today a bug with Cubase/Nuendo automation causing crashes as well as the high CPU load when the GUI is open should be fixed.
Also they addeed a feature I requested just 3 days ago: It is now possible to merge a selection of instances from another server-save file into your current session.


----------



## Ben

DANIELE said:


> I have another strange behavior I start seeing yesterday, when I open a kontakt instance and try to replace an instrument or move with right/left arrow it takes literally forever. Why?


No idea, but try the update from today and see if it is fixed.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Guy Rowland said:


> For me it varies from library to library Michael. Some of the modern complex patches are really quite heavy on RAM use even without any samples loaded. The earlier versions of Symphobia 1 had very simple patches, and 10 of them actually uses less RAM than the newer ones I think (but accordingly they do a lot less - they had separate patches for close and stage mics initially). For MSB I found i preferred to have longs and shorts separate, as I wanted to control them differently (key velocity for shorts, CC for longs).
> 
> Obviously there's nothing especially pertinent to VE Pro here, I don't think there's much difference hosting there as opposed to anything else really. The more midi and audio tracks you have the more there is to set up I guess.



Thanks Guy,

I had given up on templates as I kept hitting the wall - especially when it came to RAM. The three videos you've posted on how you enable tracks in VePro have inspired me to have another go at it - as I keep finding that I have forgotten about some of the libraries and patches that I have, only to 'rediscover' them long after I could have used them to great effect in a project.


Having them a button press away without crippling your machine is exactly what I need. The only problem with building templates is that I keep learning new techniques about halfway through the build, that make me want to go back and change the way they are built.

Building templates often seems to me to be the perfect tool for procrastination....


----------



## Guy Rowland

Michael Antrum said:


> The only problem with building templates is that I keep learning new techniques about halfway through the build, that make me want to go back and change the way they are built.



Very true - happened to me last time too. It was only OCD organisational stuff though, and I decided it would be good for me to live with it...


----------



## C-Wave

No one upgrade to 7.0.99; it's crashing all the time when loading server project; 7.0789 did not! Windows 10.


----------



## Virtuoso

Michael Antrum said:


> Building templates often seems to me to be the perfect tool for procrastination....


And perfect for those with OCD.


----------



## stevebarden

C-Wave said:


> No one upgrade to 7.0.99; it's crashing all the time when loading server project; 7.0789 did not! Windows 10.


I have had no issues with the upgrade. Possibly a reboot will help.


----------



## EgM

Been playing with it for a few days, it's really faster than v6 to me (All Windows 10 Pro machines). I've tried the included fx but using them inside a slave doesn't seem right to me so I don't plan on using them. Tried Epic Orchestra v2, not something for me and I don't care for the Synchron player.

_What I love!:_

- I've been using Studio One 4 a bit more than Cubase 9.5 Pro lately and v7 finally uses a lot less CPU on it.

- Loading my full VSL library with *ALL* articulations (Appa1 str ext, Orch str 1-2 std, WW std, Harp1 ext, SE1, SE1Str, SE2Str and tens of individual instruments = 190Gb off SSD) for 62 instances each using mirx Teldex. It only used 800mb standby RAM on a puny i7-2630 laptop with 8Gb 


_Things I'd love to be addressed or improved_:

- I'm still puzzled why they still can't save a server project without depending on the IP address, they should use other methods of identifying it, PC Name, etc. I know how to view the VEP Project file to determine the IP that was used but still, it's certainly something it should not rely upon.

- They should implement drag and drop instrument presets, like Studio One has, I do instances per instruments. I don't use full static templates but rather add sub templates for instance my full VSL library, sections of EW Hollywood Strings, etc

Good work VSL! This one's worth it in my opinion


----------



## C-Wave

Ben said:


> Use the parameter automation in VEP and select disable instance. Then use the instance automation in Cubase, select the parameter from the drop-down and set the value (on/ off). So your cubase project will remember which instance to enable / disable wenn loaded.


Does this setup also apply to instrument/Midi tracks? I have about 1200 Midi tracks connected to about 40 Instrument tracks with each Instrument track connected to a VEP 7 Instance. Midi tracks automation has no reference to the VEP instance's Parameter automation (example snapshot attached).


----------



## Ben

EgM said:


> - They should implement drag and drop instrument presets, like Studio One has, I do instances per instruments. I don't use full static templates but rather add sub templates for instance my full VSL library, sections of EW Hollywood Strings, etc


I requested exact this feature during beta test and they liked the idea, but it is a little more complicated, so we have to wait until something like that is implemented.
I know it is not the same, but there is a function in the instances menu "merge instances". It makes what the name suggests. Give it a try!


----------



## DANIELE

Ben said:


> No idea, but try the update from today and see if it is fixed.



I noticed it happens when I open Kontakt in VEP and at the same time in Reaper, I'm doing this to copy some instrument settings into the VEP template, once I finished I replace the Kontakt instance in Reaper with the VEP one.

Maybe it's some conflict between the instances opened in both the hosts. I noticed that VEP has a sort of separate state for kontakt, i.e. if I open the quickload menu in one instance I have not opened in one another while in Reaper it is the opposite.


----------



## Guy Rowland

C-Wave said:


> No one upgrade to 7.0.99; it's crashing all the time when loading server project; 7.0789 did not! Windows 10.



FYI - no issue here on this build and W10 Pro.


----------



## Ben

C-Wave said:


> Does this setup also apply to instrument/Midi tracks? I have about 1200 Midi tracks connected to about 40 Instrument tracks with each Instrument track connected to a VEP 7 Instance. Midi tracks automation has no reference to the VEP instance's Parameter automation (example snapshot attached).


Yes, it works also for the Midi CC automation. But you will have to set it in in the instrument track if you want to disable the entire instance, and for the Midi tracks I would set them up to disable the specific instrument / folder they are belonging to.


----------



## C-Wave

Guy Rowland said:


> FYI - no issue here on this build and W10 Pro.


Must be just me then.
Edit: Stopped crashing after restarting PC.
Edit 2: Nope;Still freezes on start.. uninstalled and reinstalled..same!
Edit 3: Intermittent!


----------



## Audio Birdi

I have an odd issue here, but wondered if others have the same thing. When disabling an instance or even a channel, if you save the project and open it again. It forgets and removes all the plugin automation parameters when instances / channels are still disabled on open. Has this happened to others too?


----------



## C-Wave

Audio Birdi said:


> I have an odd issue here, but wondered if others have the same thing. When disabling an instance or even a channel, if you save the project and open it again. It forgets and removes all the plugin automation parameters when instances / channels are still disabled on open. Has this happened to instances. others too?


Not sure if this is the case, but try to re-open the troublesome project *after* opening the server project (even if it were automatically opened with the server project). I think Server projects don’t necessarily remember the last save of projects (instances) until “server projects” are re-saved with the latest version of their projects (instances). If this makes any sense to you.


----------



## azeteg

Audio Birdi said:


> I have an odd issue here, but wondered if others have the same thing. When disabling an instance or even a channel, if you save the project and open it again. It forgets and removes all the plugin automation parameters when instances / channels are still disabled on open. Has this happened to others too?



We have just located and fixed a bug here, coming with next update!


----------



## azeteg

kenose said:


> Just curious if anyone else is experiencing this-- I'm noticing that in instances in projects I created before the latest update (7.0.789) I can't copy the automation fields in the MIDI controllers tab using the new drag/drop feature. If I make a brand new instance, the drag/copy works fine.



Confirmed, and fixed for the next update.


----------



## DANIELE

DANIELE said:


> I noticed it happens when I open Kontakt in VEP and at the same time in Reaper, I'm doing this to copy some instrument settings into the VEP template, once I finished I replace the Kontakt instance in Reaper with the VEP one.
> 
> Maybe it's some conflict between the instances opened in both the hosts. I noticed that VEP has a sort of separate state for kontakt, i.e. if I open the quickload menu in one instance I have not opened in one another while in Reaper it is the opposite.



This keep happening, is there anyone that has the same behavior?

I'm really taking so long to move the template on VEP.


----------



## DANIELE

A little update, now while I'm setting up the template everything freezed and then crashed, both Reaper and VEP.


----------



## Audio Birdi

DANIELE said:


> A little update, now while I'm setting up the template everything freezed and then crashed, both Reaper and VEP.


Finding instability here too. Both VEP 7 and REAPER are doing some funky things that’s for sure! It’s calmed down with each update but still finding 6 faster than 7


----------



## DANIELE

Audio Birdi said:


> Finding instability here too. Both VEP 7 and REAPER are doing some funky things that’s for sure! It’s calmed down with each update but still finding 6 faster than 7



I tried VEP6 for a short time but enough to say that it is a way more faster than this.

I find out this issue is caused by the connection of the plugin with VEP. Before I connect the plugin everything works fine, if I connect the plugin than the kontakt ui go to hell and became slower and slower...

It working better two patch earlier for me...


----------



## Guy Rowland

Daniele / Audio Birdi - are you in touch with VSL about all this? I'm not getting any of your issues with Cubase. Seems to be a specific combo between Reaper and VEP7. Pure speculation on my part, but they maybe didn't beta test much with Reaper.

Now is definitely the time to get through to them, they seem to be working at a phenomenal pace on fixes and enhancements.


----------



## Audio Birdi

Guy Rowland said:


> Daniele / Audio Birdi - are you in touch with VSL about all this? I'm not getting any of your issues with Cubase. Seems to be a specific combo between Reaper and VEP7. Pure speculation on my part, but they maybe didn't beta test much with Reaper.
> 
> Now is definitely the time to get through to them, they seem to be working at a phenomenal pace on fixes and enhancements.


I’m in touch with VSL about this and have sent both REAPER and VEP files for them to test out. 

Will report back too


----------



## Clawrence

For those interested....

I was in the middle of building a new All Articulation/All Instrument Disabled Template using Cubase 9.5 and VePro 6 a la @Guy Rowland's helpful videos (previously used a blank template and dropped in premade-routed folders) OSX and one computer. Got about half way through a tedious process...and bit the bullet on upgrading both VePro and Cubase mid project. 

The transition was unbelievably good. And as it stands now, not only is the workflow speed with continuing my template unbelievably faster, the additional updates on both programs are as of now working really well together.

Havent overloaded it yet. Still a ways to go as far as preformance testing...and it does appear there are some automation saving issues that others have reported and it sounds like they are working on. But I was reluctant to move up after all the work and it turned out flawless and well worth it.

In case you are in a similar head space....I think despite the cost, the reward was worth it.


----------



## Guavadude

When saving the Server Project, do I need to purge each Kontakt plugin first before I disable the Instances? Using Logic and will be enabling Instances manually until "enable by received midi note" happens. I'm still new to this and just not sure how to get the smallest footprint. I started in VEP6 and haven't had any issues moving over to VEP7.


----------



## yoonseopark

In my case, what worked fast on VEPRO6 works very slowly after upgrading to 7.
VEPRO Project Lording, Instance Connecting .. Etc
(When the template created in VEPRO6 is run on Vepro7)

Is it necessary to create a new template in Vepro7?


----------



## yoonseopark

yoonseopark said:


> In my case, what worked fast on VEPRO6 works very slowly after upgrading to 7.
> VEPRO Project Lording, Instance Connecting .. Etc
> (When the template created in VEPRO6 is run on Vepro7)
> 
> Is it necessary to create a new template in Vepro7?



Same Project Instance Conneting Time...


----------



## DANIELE

Guy Rowland said:


> Daniele / Audio Birdi - are you in touch with VSL about all this? I'm not getting any of your issues with Cubase. Seems to be a specific combo between Reaper and VEP7. Pure speculation on my part, but they maybe didn't beta test much with Reaper.
> 
> Now is definitely the time to get through to them, they seem to be working at a phenomenal pace on fixes and enhancements.



I wrote on the forum but no answers for now. It seems I'm the only one facing this issue.


----------



## Dewdman42

I don't think you're alone. I have rolled back to VEP6 for the time being. I believe VSL will work it all out eventually.


----------



## Ben

Guavadude said:


> When saving the Server Project, do I need to purge each Kontakt plugin first before I disable the Instances? Using Logic and will be enabling Instances manually until "enable by received midi note" happens. I'm still new to this and just not sure how to get the smallest footprint. I started in VEP6 and haven't had any issues moving over to VEP7.


No, just disable the instance. Wake on midi is not implemented (yet), so you have to enable it yourself (manual, midi cc, plugin parameter)


----------



## Guy Rowland

Daniele - you’re definitely not alone as Audio Birdi has seemingly the exact same set up and symptoms. Keep pursuing with VSL, maybe cross-reference each other?

Yoonseopark - there have been enough of us with positive experiences to make me think yours isn’t something system-specific too. What is your host? Are you running off slaves or all on one machine? FYI I've been using an existing template and connection is very quick in Win 10 Pro / Cubase 10.


----------



## DANIELE

Dewdman42 said:


> I don't think you're alone. I have rolled back to VEP6 for the time being. I believe VSL will work it all out eventually.



I really hope so, cause even if from my last tests I see that the CPU performances are pretty much the same by using VEP vs Reaper alone I'd like to use VEP because:

1) I spent money on it; 
2) I could have a neater template and I could manage instruments separately;
3) Reaper project loads faster and instruments in VEP loads faster.

Reaper it's pretty great on its own, so if VEP still doesn't working I have to put it apart and maybe ask for a refund.
The initial release worked fine, I had some strange delay in loading VST3 main plugin vs VEP6 where it loads very quickly but I hadn't those problems.
I think this could be something about the recent fixes on the UI cpu spykes, there's something wrong about the interface.


So please VSL, do something about it.


----------



## DANIELE

Guy Rowland said:


> Daniele - you’re definitely not alone as Audio Birdi has seemingly the exact same set up and symptoms. Keep pursuing with VSL, maybe cross-reference each other?
> 
> Yoonseopark - there have been enough of us with positive experiences to make me think yours isn’t something system-specific too. What is your host? Are you running off slaves or all on one machine? FYI I've been using an existing template and connection is very quick in Win 10 Pro / Cubase 10.



Thank you Guy. Well, I'll wait for some answer in the forum, I'll do some bumps if I see that nobody reply.


----------



## yoonseopark

Guy Rowland said:


> Daniele - you’re definitely not alone as Audio Birdi has seemingly the exact same set up and symptoms. Keep pursuing with VSL, maybe cross-reference each other?
> 
> Yoonseopark - there have been enough of us with positive experiences to make me think yours isn’t something system-specific too. What is your host? Are you running off slaves or all on one machine? FYI I've been using an existing template and connection is very quick in Win 10 Pro / Cubase 10.



Host-2015late iMac i7 4Ghz 32gb Mojave 10.14.4

Slave -Win10 PC i9 9900k 64ram All SSD


----------



## Guy Rowland

yoonseopark said:


> Host-2015late iMac i7 4Ghz 32gb Mojave 10.14.4
> 
> Slave -Win10 PC i9 9900k 64ram All SSD



Yes, definitely post this on the VSL forum as a start at least, along with your DAW and VE Pro build number. I think your headline is hosting on Mac Mojave, slave on PC.


----------



## yoonseopark

Guy Rowland said:


> Yes, definitely post this on the VSL forum as a start at least, along with your DAW and VE Pro build number. I think your headline is hosting on Mac Mojave, slave on PC.



Cubase 10.0.20 Build 187
VE Pro 7 build 7.0.799
VE Pro 6 build 6.0.17952

thank you!


----------



## Audio Birdi

Here are 2 videos I've just recorded and will send them off to the VSL team along with the project files.

VEP 6 project loading time


VEP 7 project loading time


It's the exact same template. doing it this way with disabled tracks gave me the best performance since PLAY uses 1 core / 1 thread per instance. Then in Reaper, I've got a key command / button to enable / disable each track / instances by using MIDI cc 19 on channel 1.


----------



## Ben

Audio Birdi said:


> It's the exact same template. doing it this way with disabled tracks gave me the best performance since PLAY uses 1 core / 1 thread per instance. Then in Reaper, I've got a key command / button to enable / disable each track / instances by using MIDI cc 19 on channel 1.


This is the worst setup I can imagine (performance-wise) :D

Why do you use just one instrument per instance? The more efficient way to do this is to group the instruments and use as few instances as possible. Even with multiple instruments per instance you have full control to enable / disable each instrument.

I don't think VSL has tested such a setup because it is not designed to work this way (imo).
That would also explain why you have such a bad experience.


----------



## fixxer49

Audio Birdi said:


> Here are 2 videos I've just recorded and will send them off to the VSL team along with the project files.
> 
> VEP 6 project loading time
> 
> 
> VEP 7 project loading time
> 
> 
> It's the exact same template. doing it this way with disabled tracks gave me the best performance since PLAY uses 1 core / 1 thread per instance. Then in Reaper, I've got a key command / button to enable / disable each track / instances by using MIDI cc 19 on channel 1.



do you actually _use_ this template (800+ instances?), or is it purpose-built to stress-test?


----------



## Audio Birdi

fixxer49 said:


> do you actually _use_ this template (800+ instances?), or is it purpose-built to stress-test?


I do use it this way yes, the performance is better this way compared to having fewer instances with more channels I’ve found. I’ve made several template layouts and for the overall CPU usage, this was genuinely the most efficient way compared to fewer instance


----------



## EgM

I've always used one instance per instrument myself, the only instances I use with multiple instruments are ones such as Hollywood Strings where I switch articulations using midi channels. Never ran into performance problems, plus you get access to a dedicated audio track stem.


----------



## fixxer49

Audio Birdi said:


> I do use it this way yes, the performance is better this way compared to having fewer instances with more channels I’ve found. I’ve made several template layouts and for the overall CPU usage, this was genuinely the most efficient way compared to fewer instance





EgM said:


> I've always used one instance per instrument myself, the only instances I use with multiple instruments are ones such as Hollywood Strings where I switch articulations using midi channels. Never ran into performance problems, plus you get access to a dedicated audio track stem.



i am quite surprised at this set up (and the reported efficiencies - i would have predicted the opposite.) @EgM + @Audio Birdi, are you both on reaper?


----------



## DANIELE

My problem is different, maybe I could try to play with settings but I doubt it will solve the issue.

This evening I'll try to test the project on a blank one in Reaper and see if the problem persist or it is only present when I use my Reaper template.

I'll try to play with thread settings in VEP.

Other than this I don't now what to do.
Still no answer in the vsl forum.


----------



## EgM

fixxer49 said:


> i am quite surprised at this set up (and the reported efficiencies - i would have predicted the opposite.) @EgM + @Audio Birdi, are you both on reaper?



I use Cubase Pro 9.5 and Studio One 4 and previously this also worked perfectly in LPX.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Audio Birdi said:


> I do use it this way yes, the performance is better this way compared to having fewer instances with more channels I’ve found. I’ve made several template layouts and for the overall CPU usage, this was genuinely the most efficient way compared to fewer instance



It might be more efficient, CPU wise, but I would imagine it is hell organizing this in VEP. And connecting/deconnecting to 800 instances must take a long time also. Certainly I wouldn't be able to keep an overview in such a setup, but by all means, if you think it rocks, go for it  I'd rather keep it nice and tidy and lose a couple of % CPU And memory usage must be higher this way as well.


----------



## Guy Rowland

DANIELE said:


> Other than this I don't now what to do.
> Still no answer in the vsl forum.



As you've got no response there, send support an email referencing the forum thread.


----------



## DANIELE

Guy Rowland said:


> As you've got no response there, send support an email referencing the forum thread.



Yes, I'll do it but first I would like to do some more tests. At least to understand what is the cause.

I noticed that VEP (last update) keep crashing my Logitech Gaming Software (which I use for mouse profiles like Reaper one). I don't know what VEP is doing but it is pretty strange.

I also tried to open a blank project on Reaper and load the one I'm building on VEP. Everything seems to work smooth, the VST3 version is slow as hell instead, the same as in the template.

Maybe there is something that in Reaper template conflict with VEP but every track it is offline so I don't understand what's happening.


----------



## Audio Birdi

DANIELE said:


> Yes, I'll do it but first I would like to do some more tests. At least to understand what is the cause.
> 
> I noticed that VEP (last update) keep crashing my Logitech Gaming Software (which I use for mouse profiles like Reaper one). I don't know what VEP is doing but it is pretty strange.
> 
> I also tried to open a blank project on Reaper and load the one I'm building on VEP. Everything seems to work smooth, the VST3 version is slow as hell instead, the same as in the template.
> 
> Maybe there is something that in Reaper template conflict with VEP but every track it is offline so I don't understand what's happening.


Getting the same issue with the VST3 version inside Reaper too. VST version works fine strangely. May just switch them all out since you're able to run vst's outside of Reaper too, which can help for plugin crashes.


----------



## azeteg

Audio Birdi said:


> Getting the same issue with the VST3 version inside Reaper too. VST version works fine strangely. May just switch them all out since you're able to run vst's outside of Reaper too, which can help for plugin crashes.



Thanks for reporting! We'll be looking into the issue with Reaper asap.


----------



## DANIELE

azeteg said:


> Thanks for reporting! We'll be looking into the issue with Reaper asap.



Sorry if I keep writing but maybe this could help other users or you guys to find the issues and fix them.

Further testing shows me that if I go to start audio engine everything goes to work again, till the next connection where it loose everything again. So I need to click on the audio engine button everytime.

Another thing I noticed is that when I put the play cursor perfectly aligned with a note (quantized with the grid) the note doesn't play, I always have to put the play cursor before the note to hear a sound.

It doesn't happen with an instance of Kontakt loaded directly in Reaper....

Uff...to much issues...I think you guys need a lot more testing in Reaper, please look at all this.


----------



## Grizzlymv

Simon Ravn said:


> It might be more efficient, CPU wise, but I would imagine it is hell organizing this in VEP. And connecting/deconnecting to 800 instances must take a long time also.


This! Loading the Cubase project must take a while? 

I played around the automation and it's quite an improvement. It makes me question what's the best approach for the template though. 

To make it easy to use with a controller/touchpad it sounds like an instance per track is the way to go (that way the control could always be the 1st one of the selected track for instance). BUT, that's why @Simon Ravn comment surprised me as I always thought that it would not be the way to go CPU wise since your cores are now spread accross so many different instances. 

Going with Folders or Channels disabling within an active Instance will probably accelerate the CPR loading time, and might be more efficient CPU wise since all the core are spread accross a limited amount of instances. But it make the control through a UI much more complex as each channel or folder would require it's own dedicated control. 

So for those who use Cubase and VEP together with large template, what would you recommend? 

Not sure if I'm clear with my explanations though...


----------



## Ben

Grizzlymv said:


> To make it easy to use with a controller/touchpad it sounds like an instance per track is the way to go (that way the control could always be the 1st one of the selected track for instance). BUT, that's why @Simon Ravn comment surprised me as I always thought that it would not be the way to go CPU wise since your cores are now spread accross so many different instances.
> 
> Going with Folders or Channels disabling within an active Instance will probably accelerate the CPR loading time, and might be more efficient CPU wise since all the core are spread accross a limited amount of instances.
> So for those who use Cubase and VEP together with large template, what would you recommend?


*Performance*
This is theoretical, so your experience may differ: In theory as few instances as possible will give you the best performance, because VEP can manage and balance the load better. Keep in mind that you may have to alter the thread-count per instance. The more instances -> the less cores you should use. I have six cores and around 4-10 instances, the per instance thread count is set to 4 and everything works fine for me. If you have only 4 cores you should choose 2 cores per instance, if you have more cores choose a higher one.
In all players you use inside of VEP you should disable all multi-threading settings / multi-core settings to prevent resource conflicts between the player instances and VEP. Vienna Instruments has this setting as well as Kontakt. For the other players I have no idea, so read the manual for these.


----------



## Dewdman42

In my view that is the principle reason to use as few instances as possible, 1 if possible because of the way VEP is configured, you have to specify how many threads to use per instance, and it all needs to add up to no more than 2 threads per core on the system, plus leave a few threads for your DAW too! So for a 6 core machine I'd probably say 10 threads for VEP total. If you have 5 instances, that is 2 threads per instance. Right?

Problem with that is that if have any instances that are inactive at any particular period of time, then the active ones are still only configured for the 2 threads each and so for that period of time they are under utilizing cores. Whereas if you have a single instance, you can say 10 threads per instance and VEP will not be under utilizing cores pretty much ever.

its too bad VEP didn't manage the number of threads per instance automatically.. It would be better if we could simply say how many threads we want VEP overall to use and let VEP manage which instances are forking threads on its own. But unfortunately, for now...its not configured like that, so multi-instance setups create a lot of possibilities of under-utilized cores...except when all instances are playing back at the same time fairly even amounts of stuff, then it probably doesn't matter, they will all be waiting their turn for threads.


----------



## TintoL

Hi all... 

Just updated to VEP 7. My slave single massive instance loads fine. But, once all is loaded, the UI is dead frozen. Weird thing is that Kontakt works fine in the vep instance. But all buttons of the VEP 7 UI are all dead. And, even weirder is that if you select the VEP mixer and track windows, you can move them around inside VEP UI, but, no buttons work. 

If any of you have seen this, I would appreciate any help. 

My slave is running on windows 7. 

Kontakt 5, latest update. And only kontakt instruments in the instance. 

I am kind of getting tired of dealing with the second computer. I wish I could simply jump to a single computer setup. If this improvements of loading and unloading instances is good enough and I can live without having all loaded, I think I will ditch the slave....


----------



## Ben

Dewdman42 said:


> its too bad VEP didn't manage the number of threads per instance automatically..


It would be nice, but this is almost, if not even completly impossible to implement.


----------



## TintoL

TintoL said:


> Hi all...
> 
> Just updated to VEP 7. My slave single massive instance loads fine. But, once all is loaded, the UI is dead frozen. Weird thing is that Kontakt works fine in the vep instance. But all buttons of the VEP 7 UI are all dead. And, even weirder is that if you select the VEP mixer and track windows, you can move them around inside VEP UI, but, no buttons work.
> 
> If any of you have seen this, I would appreciate any help.
> 
> My slave is running on windows 7.
> 
> Kontakt 5, latest update. And only kontakt instruments in the instance.
> 
> I am kind of getting tired of dealing with the second computer. I wish I could simply jump to a single computer setup. If this improvements of loading and unloading instances is good enough and I can live without having all loaded, I think I will ditch the slave....




OK, I figure it out. My instance was "unsnapped from the UI". This was making the VEP instace UI to not work. I snapped it back to the server window and it worked. It might be a bug in VEP 7.


----------



## Ben

TintoL said:


> OK, I figure it out. My instance was "unsnapped from the UI". This was making the VEP instace UI to not work. I snapped it back to the server window and it worked. It might be a bug in VEP 7.


Glad to hear you found a workaround! Please report this to [email protected]
The more information about the problem and your system / configuration you provide, the faster they can fix this.


----------



## TintoL

Ben said:


> Glad to hear you found a workaround! Please report this to [email protected]
> The more information about the problem and your system / configuration you provide, the faster they can fix this.




NO PROBLEM.... I will make a report.... 

By the way it behave like that both in win 10 and win 7.


----------



## Dewdman42

Ben said:


> It would be nice, but this is almost, if not even completly impossible to implement.



Nothing is impossible.

I'm presuming you think its difficult because each instance is running as its own server process or something internally?


----------



## Guavadude

After enabling a disabled instance, Kontakt is having trouble finding the Master bus outputs. I'm having to re-select the out1/out2 routing to get the instance to fully wake up. 

The communication with the VEP plugin in Logic is reconnecting fine. I can see midi activity in VEP7, I'm just having to give the outputs a kick to get them going. Is this normal? I don't seem to remember ever having to do that in VEP6.


----------



## composingkeys

Guavadude said:


> After enabling a disabled instance, Kontakt is having trouble finding the Master bus outputs. I'm having to re-select the out1/out2 routing to get the instance to fully wake up.
> 
> The communication with the VEP plugin in Logic is reconnecting fine. I can see midi activity in VEP7, I'm just having to give the outputs a kick to get them going. Is this normal? I don't seem to remember ever having to do that in VEP6.



That doesn't sound normal to me. Definitely should send this behavior in an email to VSL to have them look at it ([email protected]).


----------



## stigc56

Well the number of instances and how many instruments in each also determines the mixing possibilities. I have all my VSL Strings in the same instance, so 1st violins always are routed to the same output and so on. I have all my solo strings in one instance for the same reasons.


----------



## iMovieShout

Ok here's a serious issue with VEP7:

We've finally gotten around to installing VEP7 on our studio's 11 servers currently running VEP6). However it appears VEP7 has some issues with Windows Server, in that it will not install, reporting that wlanapi.dll is missing. Given that VEP6 works fine on Windows Server 2012, does anyone know what the problem is? Could it be that VEP7 isn't designed for Windows Server?

Any help here would be really appreciated 


PS: I'll just add that VEP7 has installed successfully and is working fine on our dual-CPU PC-Workstations which run on Windows 10 Professional.


----------



## Ben

jpb007.uk said:


> Any help here would be really appreciated


Try this http://geekswithblogs.net/dlussier/archive/2008/06/02/122558.aspx


----------



## iMovieShout

Ben said:


> Try this http://geekswithblogs.net/dlussier/archive/2008/06/02/122558.aspx



Hey Ben, Wow thanks. Who'd have thought that enabling Wireless LAN would resolve this issue. Crazy!!

Many thanks


----------



## Dewdman42

stigc56 said:


> Well the number of instances and how many instruments in each also determines the mixing possibilities. I have all my VSL Strings in the same instance, so 1st violins always are routed to the same output and so on. I have all my solo strings in one instance for the same reasons.



Putting them in separate instances for organizational reasons is certainly something many people do. I did a few projects that way and as long as they are all playing at the same time evenly then your core usage will be fine, but if you ever have a situation where 1 or 2 instances are playing a lot and some other instances are quiet, then you’ll be underutilizing cores. That’s why a single instance scenario is much better at balancing the core usage.

You can still use separate busses and outs from a single instance to handle sections to their own dedicated audio channels. And folders to organize them. I feel now that is better approach due to the way vep is architected for multithreading


----------



## Dewdman42

It’s also convenient to be able to load an instance as a section. No doubt about that. I guess channel sets are the alternative for when using a single large instance


----------



## C-Wave

VEP 7 build 7.0.807 is out.. also VEP 6 build 6.0.17966.


----------



## Grizzlymv

Dewdman42 said:


> Putting them in separate instances for organizational reasons is certainly something many people do. I did a few projects that way and as long as they are all playing at the same time evenly then your core usage will be fine, but if you ever have a situation where 1 or 2 instances are playing a lot and some other instances are quiet, then you’ll be underutilizing cores. That’s why a single instance scenario is much better at balancing the core usage.
> 
> You can still use separate busses and outs from a single instance to handle sections to their own dedicated audio channels. And folders to organize them. I feel now that is better approach due to the way vep is architected for multithreading


Make sense. But then, how do you manage automation in that case? I guess you enable channels as needed, within the instance. Which mean it use a huge range of predefined control for that specific instance, isn't?


----------



## Guy Rowland

C-Wave said:


> VEP 7 build 7.0.807 is out.. also VEP 6 build 6.0.17966.



Thanks - for info:

VE PRO 7.0.807
• Fixed: Delay compensation of plug-ins that don't properly report latency changes to the host
• Fixed: Plug-in delay compensation not working
• Fixed: Instance staying disabled when starting a new project
• Fixed: Broken behavior when dragging automation entries
• Fixed: Instance color selector potentially appearing off-screen
• Fixed: VST2 VE Pro plug-in not passing time info (such as tempo) to the connected instance


----------



## DANIELE

Installed the update but no fix for me, I know they are working on it, I'll keep waiting. Now the behavior is even worst, I have to press play every time I need to do a change on kontakt UI.

Every time I move the focus from VEP to Reaper I loose the control on VEP. I really hope they fix this...


----------



## Breaker

I have now been tinkering with the VEP 7 trial for few days and I'm not still sure what to do while the introductory offer ends tomorrow.
Basically I would be paying 120€ for smoother enabling/disabling automation from Cubase and losing one (currently unused) license.


----------



## holywilly

Installed the latest VEP 7, load up the template, playback the recent score session, glitch and pop! Now rolling back to the VEP 6. I didn't touch any preference setting for the test run.

I didn't expect the result of worst performance of VEP 7.


----------



## Guy Rowland

No performance issues here on Win 10 and latest build. Needless to say it would take tracking down to find out the problem, holywilly.


----------



## holywilly

I'm on Mac OS 10.12.6, running VEP on a single Mac Pro 6,1 (12 cores + 128GB ram) machine. VEP 6 is running flawlessly since the released. The session with only VSL orchestral strings plays perfectly fine on VEP 6, glitch and pop on VEP 7, I cannot take the risk using VEP 7 at the moment.


----------



## Ben

holywilly said:


> I'm on Mac OS 10.12.6, running VEP on a single Mac Pro 6,1 (12 cores + 128GB ram) machine. VEP 6 is running flawlessly since the released. The session with only VSL orchestral strings plays perfectly fine on VEP 6, glitch and pop on VEP 7, I cannot take the risk using VEP 7 at the moment.


Which plugins cause these glitches?


----------



## holywilly

I use only MIR Pro


----------



## Ben

And only VSL instruments or any other?
Also, do you use the Audio Input plugin? I had issues with the latest update when using it, but rolling back to .799 worked for me.


----------



## Guy Rowland

TBH if hollywilly is mid-project, I'd forget it until there's a clear time. Troubleshooting when under the kosh is hellish - VEP 7 is great, but on existing project there's little benefit to upgrading (especially if you have performance issues), and it'll be a time-sink.


----------



## holywilly

My main template consist mainly VSL instruments (all VI woodwinds, Strings, Synchronized dimension brass), some instruments from PLAY (orchestral percussions & Hollywood Brass) and very few Kontakt instruments. Total of less than 100 midi tracks in my template (I use expression map from Cubase to change articulations).

I decided to give VEP 7 a try today. After installation, I open a cue which I’ve done mock-up 2 weeks ago, I play a part with only 5 midi channels of Strings (orchestral Strings with integrated MIR Pro) and the play back with glitches (110 bpm with 16th note string runs on only Violins I & II). I looped couple times with that section and glitches are always there.

There were no performance issue in VEP 6, everything was silky smooth during composition and playing back. I’ve checked the VEP 7 preference that stays the same with VEP 6.

I run everything on one single Mac Pro 6,1 (12 cores, 128GB ram, all SSD via thunderbolt).

Unfortunately I have to roll back to VEP 6 at the moment. The only break I have will be early next year, I’m so packed up in 2019. I guess I’ll stay with VEP 6 until next break.

That’s the detail of my story with VEP 7 today. I still have faith in VEP 7, truly believe team VSL will make it a better!

Happy composing everyone!


----------



## C-Wave

Guy Rowland said:


> No performance issues here on Win 10 and latest build. Needless to say it would take tracking down to find out the problem, holywilly.


+1


----------



## Kent

Quick question: I’m building a clone of a rig that needs to stay on VEP 6 for now. VEP 7 is the only license available I can find to buy. Would a VEP 7 license allow use of the VEP 6 installation, or am I out of luck?


----------



## Ben

kmaster said:


> Quick question: I’m building a clone of a rig that needs to stay on VEP 6 for now. VEP 7 is the only license available I can find to buy. Would a VEP 7 license allow use of the VEP 6 installation, or am I out of luck?


As far as I know VEP6 should run with a VEP7 license. But if you want to be sure, just contact [email protected] directly. I am sure that they will provide a solution.


----------



## DANIELE

Just for you to know I finally find out the cause of my VEP issues, I copy/paste what it is already written on vsl forum:
_
Here's how to reproduce it:

_

_Create 1 track in Reaper for the main plugin (VST or VST3 is the same);_
_Create 1 track for the Event Input plugin;_
_Link everything to a VEP instance with some kontakt libraries loaded in._
_ 
Here we are, if every "Record ARM" button is disabled then you will have this problem, if one of two tracks has this button enabled the everything will works fine.


So in my template I obviously put off all of my arm buttons, this is why I had this problem._

VSL is working on a fix. 

Hope it helps.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Well tracked down Daniele - here's hoping they're as quick as fixing this as they have been with other known issues lately.


----------



## DANIELE

Guy Rowland said:


> Well tracked down Daniele - here's hoping they're as quick as fixing this as they have been with other known issues lately.



Thank you Guy. Well, at least now they have pointed down the cause, maybe they was already on it but this could be useful to other users.


----------



## composingkeys

Great video showcasing the new features of VE PRO 7:


----------



## givemenoughrope

I'm not a Logic user (Cubase) and I have an eq I like and use already. I'm not really sure why I would upgrade...? The new features don't really seem all that necessary to me. What am I missing here?


----------



## Ben

givemenoughrope said:


> I'm not a Logic user (Cubase) and I have an eq I like and use already. I'm not really sure why I would upgrade...? The new features don't really seem all that necessary to me. What am I missing here?


I tried to make a list of all changes here: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/vep7-whats-new-and-improved-v7-0-799-2019-05-07.81869/

In short: The plugins are great, the presets are real time-savers, automation mapping is improved and much more.
And VST3 hosting is coming soon...


----------



## composingkeys

givemenoughrope said:


> I'm not a Logic user (Cubase) and I have an eq I like and use already. I'm not really sure why I would upgrade...? The new features don't really seem all that necessary to me. What am I missing here?


Everyone has different needs so some features will look more appealing than others. I am a Nuendo user (was on Cubase which is very similar) and I think the parameter automation improvements are much better and easier to use. Being able to search to add instruments is way easier now and now being able to disable folders are auto stable which is super cool. You can also change the tab view from horizontal at the top to vertical on the side which can make it easier to see and use. Also, epic orchestra 2 is nice to check out also. VST 3 coming will also be a big deal for cubase/nuendo users!


----------



## givemenoughrope

composingkeys said:


> Everyone has different needs so some features will look more appealing than others. I am a Nuendo user (was on Cubase which is very similar) and I think the parameter automation improvements are much better and easier to use.


They were already pretty easy though, right? I'll have to watch your video again to see what you mean.



composingkeys said:


> VST 3 coming will also be a big deal for cubase/nuendo users!


Why is that?


----------



## Dewdman42

I am of the opinion that vep7 is not the best valued upgrade. I bought it to be current but the only new feature that I care that much about is improved plugin management. That was hardly worth the price. Everyone is different I just didn’t really need most of the new features. As it turns out it performs a little worse on my 5,1 macpro, though vsl is looking into that. And of course we lose our multi licenses.

I think if you’re happy with vep6 and don’t really need the new features then why do it? On the other hand if you would benefit from the new fx or any other features then go for it! But I do not view this as a must have upgrade honestly and I have personally rolled back to vep6


----------



## composingkeys

givemenoughrope said:


> They were already pretty easy though, right? I'll have to watch your video again to see what you mean.
> 
> 
> Why is that?


That wasn't my video but I thought was a good comprehended video about what was new in VE PRO 7.

Well, before you would just have Parameter 1-512 and now the name of the actual parameter shows up in the DAW so it isn't just #52 for example. There are also some copy paste options in VE PRO 7 that was brought up earlier in this thread as well.

VST 2 SDK is no longer supported by Steinberg so VST 3 is the new standard. It is good to know that while VST 2.4 plugins work in VE PRO, that VST 3 will soon as well.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Good comment on how the value of 7 will depend on exactly how you work. For me, even the parameter naming / mapping isn’t that big a deal, but the improvements to the automation Window (which only appeared post-launch) are worth it for admission alone, they speed up template making by an order of magnitude for me. As and when Wake On Midi appears, that will also be a game changer.

For many here, I think if in time VEP 7 encourages a fairly painless move to a disabled template, it’s value will become startling. I’ve already argued that upgrade cost can even be put against the cost of an entire slave computer (add in running, engineering and environmental savings). It’s already possible with 6, but even I concede it’s a PITA and a massive time-sink to set up in the first place. 7 makes it a relative breeze.

On top of that, I very much like side tabbed view, much easier to see what’s going on.


----------



## Craig Allen

Newb warning here: Still trying to fully understand licensing:

Context: 
I previously bought (have not used) a 3-pack of VEP6 licenses. I have 1 Vienna Key dongle (also unused).
I have bought 1 upgrade license for VEP7. I understand that if I install VIP7 I will lose the 2nd and 3rd licenses.
*Please help me know if I need 1, 2, or 3 for my scenario.*

My computers:
PC1: Office Studio. 
PC2: Home Studio.
Macbook Pro: Portable, by itself or at the office studio (usually) or at home studio (occasionally).

I was planning to install VEP on all 3 computers for single use (To be able to run VEP on a DAW on each of the 3 computers as a single machine - one at a time; transferring the dongle). 

AND to consider a versatile Slave Setup (if needed). This would involve running MBP as main DAW host (only 16 GB RAM), and using the Office PC (when at work) as a Slave (extra 32GB RAM); and then similarly be able to run a mirrored setup at home with the home PC Slave and the MBP host.

So, if only one Slave at a time: Does 1 license and 1 dongle suffice?
Or do I need a separate license per computer (i.e. 3) to have the described options?

Many thanks!
Craig


----------



## Craig Allen

Also, someone previously wrote in essence:
- only one license is needed, 
- unless... Cubase is your DAW.

Why would the choice of DAW affect how many licences or dongles are needed?


----------



## composingkeys

Craig Allen said:


> Also, someone previously wrote in essence:
> - only one license is needed,
> - unless... Cubase is your DAW.
> 
> Why would the choice of DAW affect how many licences or dongles are needed?


Hi Craig,

Cubase uses an Steinberg/eLicenser Dongle which is the same as what a Vienna Key is. 

As far as VE PRO 7 is concerned, you only need a license of VE PRO 7 on the machine you plan to actually load virtual instruments inside of it. If you only plan to load virtual instruments on a slave machine, you only need 1 VE PRO 7 license. It doesn't require a VE PRO 7 license on the DAW machine "unless" you plan to load actual virtual instruments inside of VE PRO 7 on the same DAW machine. If you are simply opening up the VE PRO 7 plugin inside your DAW to connect to a slave machine, the DAW machine doesn't need a VE PRO 7 license.


----------



## ptram

Something I'm very interested into are the effects from the Vienna Suite. I sometimes need a hint of equalization, compression or limiting, and for this I use the transparent Platinum Compressor and Linear Phase EQ in Logic, in addition to the Analyzer.

What I see VEPRO 7 offering more than Logic is a set of presets made for orchestral sounds. Just a starting point, but as good as a map when you are lost in a big city. When dealing with reverbs, for example, I find MIRx presets very useful and more effective than my own settings made starting anew.

Is the quality of these plugins better than what I already have in Logic, or they would end up as mere duplicates?

Paolo


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

Guy Rowland said:


> I very much like side tabbed view, much easier to see what’s going on


....and do not need anymore contorted abbreviations. In the horizontal view I could not use full naming.
Tabbed is readable with long naming


----------



## Guy Rowland

Silence-is-Golden said:


> ....and do not need anymore contorted abbreviations. In the horizontal view I could not use full naming.
> Tabbed is readable with long naming



YES YES YES!

Course I'm now being spoiled - along with a CPU gauge (which is very handy) I'd love a RAM gauge too per instance. Hmm, worth a feature request I think...


----------



## rrichard63

composingkeys said:


> Hi Craig,
> 
> Cubase uses an Steinberg/eLicenser Dongle which is the same as what a Vienna Key is. ...


To clarify this a little further, Cubase is relevant because it is the reason you might need two USB dongles even though you are only running the VEP server on one slave machine. One dongle for Cubase on your DAW machine and a second for VEP on the slave.


----------



## Guavadude

I’m trying to setup my Virus C as a controller for Avenger synth. It works great in Logic this way. I’ve added all the Avenger parameters I want to control by learning them in VEP. Is there not any easy way to “learn” the incoming controller as well? I have to manually select each incoming cc, is that right? I’m used to just moving the knob and the parameter you want to control and the software learns both. 

Will these automation mappings in VEP7 be saved at the global level or do I need to create a VEP server template that includes mappings?


----------



## Ben

Guavadude said:


> Is there not any easy way to “learn” the incoming controller as well? I
> 
> Will these automation mappings in VEP7 be saved at the global level or do I need to create a VEP server template that includes mappings?


There are buttons labeled "L" near the automation drop-down menus. Just press it 

The automation mapings are saved per instance, not global. But there is a "Merge Instance" function, maybe this will help you.


----------



## Guavadude

Ben said:


> There are buttons labeled "L" near the automation drop-down menus. Just press it
> 
> The automation mapings are saved per instance, not global. But there is a "Merge Instance" function, maybe this will help you.



Yes L is for learning parameters to control but it doesn’t seem to also be learning the cc input from the controller.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Guavadude said:


> Yes L is for learning parameters to control but it doesn’t seem to also be learning the cc input from the controller.



It never did for me in 6, but it does in 7. How odd.


----------



## Guavadude

Guy Rowland said:


> It never did for me in 6, but it does in 7. How odd.



I used 6 for about a week before 7 launched and hadn’t tried controlling anything yet. That’s why I asked. It just seems weird to only learn the target and not the controller.


----------



## Ben

Guavadude said:


> Yes L is for learning parameters to control but it doesn’t seem to also be learning the cc input from the controller.


You have to setup the controller so the midi cc is send from your DAW to VEP.


----------



## Guavadude

Guy Rowland said:


> It never did for me in 6, but it does in 7. How odd.



VEP7 Midi Controllers page is working as expected as long as the CC control has not been previously used in Logic. If a cc is being used in Logic, it is not being sent to VEP7 even when the VEP7 instance is the selected track in Logic. Is this normal?

I think I've sorted it. I had to create an empty VEP zone in Logic and then use the Midi Controllers in VEP to map the incoming cc to the Avenger. I was mistaken in thinking that Logic's midi control setups would change depending not the track targeted. If a controller zone is selected in Logic, then those parameters will not be available in VEP because they are directly targeting another VI.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program....


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Audio Birdi said:


> Here are 2 videos I've just recorded and will send them off to the VSL team along with the project files.



First, you may be asking a lot of anyone to watch a video of your Project loading.  You could probably get the point across by saying how long it takes in each.

But the reason for my post is to recommend that you update to the new Play. It loads *way* faster. Remember the few seconds it would pause before loading a program? That's gone.

The only caveat is that you must use an iLok 2 for it, and you can't have an original iLok connected to your computer or it won't load. PITA.


----------



## agarner32

I have been trying to keep up with all 42 pages of this thread, so sorry if this has been stated already. Is anyone using the latest version of VEP 7 with a Mac (main) and PC (Windows 10) slave setup without any problems or at least major ones?

Thanks,
Aaron


----------



## Shubus

I've gone back to VEP 6 until the dust settles on VEP 7. For those who wondered, I did NOT need to re-enter activation codes for VEP 6 so it does indeed look like the activation codes for VEP 7 also work for VEP 6.


----------



## whinecellar

Shubus said:


> I've gone back to VEP 6 until the dust settles on VEP 7....



You may have just answered what I was about to ask... I've been on VEP 5 for ages because everything has just worked flawlessly for me, and I haven't had enough downtime to roll the dice. However, I just got a new main Mac running Mojave, which has necessitated some updates, including VEP. This throws a wrench into my whole setup since all machines need to be running the same version of VEP - and some of my slaves are older machines. Grrrrrr.

Anyway, I just installed VEP 6 and nothing's working right yet - so before going through all the troubleshooting, I thought about going right to 7 since I had to buy new licenses anyway. I'd rather do all of this just once, but if 7 isn't ready for prime time...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Shubus said:


> I've gone back to VEP 6 until the dust settles on VEP 7. For those who wondered, I did NOT need to re-enter activation codes for VEP 6 so it does indeed look like the activation codes for VEP 7 also work for VEP 6.



The dust is settled.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

whinecellar said:


> if 7 isn't ready for prime time...



It is ready for prime time.

The only issue I'm still having is with AU3 - specifically getting the multiport version of the plug-in to show up (the stereo version works fine). Other people haven't had that issue, so who knows what's going on.

I don't need AU3 anyway.


----------



## Guy Rowland

whinecellar said:


> Anyway, I just installed VEP 6 and nothing's working right yet - so before going through all the troubleshooting, I thought about going right to 7 since I had to buy new licenses anyway. I'd rather do all of this just once, but if 7 isn't ready for prime time...



What's your DAW and OS? If it's not Reaper and is Windows, I'd say definitely jump straight to 7. I think a lot of Mac users are happy, but from what I can tell there's more problems at the moment on Mac still. I think the VSL folks are still working on Reaper issues.


----------



## Dewdman42

whinecellar said:


> You may have just answered what I was about to ask... I've been on VEP 5 for ages because everything has just worked flawlessly for me, and I haven't had enough downtime to roll the dice. However, I just got a new main Mac running Mojave, which has necessitated some updates, including VEP. This throws a wrench into my whole setup since all machines need to be running the same version of VEP - and some of my slaves are older machines. Grrrrrr.
> 
> Anyway, I just installed VEP 6 and nothing's working right yet - so before going through all the troubleshooting, I thought about going right to 7 since I had to buy new licenses anyway. I'd rather do all of this just once, but if 7 isn't ready for prime time...



I would wait.


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## Dewdman42

Nick Batzdorf said:


> It is ready for prime time.
> 
> The only issue I'm still having is with AU3 - specifically getting the multiport version of the plug-in to show up (the stereo version works fine). Other people haven't had that issue, so who knows what's going on.
> 
> I don't need AU3 anyway.



which version of OS X are you on? Their AU3 solution requires at least High Sierra


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Dewdman42 said:


> which version of OS X are you on? Their AU3 solution requires at least High Sierra



The latest Mojave. I actually helped beta test it, so yeah, I know about the requirements.



Dewdman42 said:


> I would wait.



They wouldn't have released it if it weren't ready.


----------



## whinecellar

Guy Rowland said:


> What's your DAW and OS? If it's not Reaper and is Windows, I'd say definitely jump straight to 7. I think a lot of Mac users are happy, but from what I can tell there's more problems at the moment on Mac still. I think the VSL folks are still working on Reaper issues.



Mojave (10.14.4) and Logic 10.4.4 on my main machine, various Mac OS on all my slaves except Win10 Pro on one PC. And the only stuff I run in VEP is Kontakt and Play libraries...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

whinecellar said:


> Mojave (10.14.4) and Logic 10.4.4 on my main machine, various Mac OS on all my slaves except Win10 Pro on one PC. And the only stuff I run in VEP is Kontakt and Play libraries...



You'll be fine.

Now, your other issues - it was you, right? - are probably network-related.


----------



## Craig Allen

rrichard63 said:


> To clarify this a little further, Cubase is relevant because it is the reason you might need two USB dongles even though you are only running the VEP server on one slave machine. One dongle for Cubase on your DAW machine and a second for VEP on the slave.



Ah, that helps me. 
So, in one scenario I would have my Cubase dongle-1 for Cubase on my Mac, and the Vienna dongle-2 for a slave PC running the VEPro Server.
But then if I decide to run Cubase and VEPro only from one machine (let's say my PC), do I then need BOTH dongles attached to the same PC? Or can both the Cubase and VEPro licenses reside on both dongles to aid my flexibility usage -- as long as I'm a single user -- so I only need to use 1 dongle at a time?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Craig Allen said:


> do I then need BOTH dongles attached



You need a dongle on any machine that's running the server (but not the VST or AU plug-in to connect to it).


----------



## rrichard63

Craig Allen said:


> ... do I then need BOTH dongles attached to the same PC? Or can both the Cubase and VEPro licenses reside on both dongles ...


If your DAW machine is also your VEP server, then your Cubase and VSL licenses can live on the same dongle. You would only need one dongle. But any given VSL license can only be assigned to one dongle. I don't know about Steinberg products. It's possible that one Cubase license can live on multiple dongles. But I doubt it.

iLok allows developers to configure their licenses to work on multiple dongles or CPUs -- up to three, I think -- and many developers do so.


----------



## nas

whinecellar said:


> Mojave (10.14.4) and Logic 10.4.4 on my main machine, various Mac OS on all my slaves except Win10 Pro on one PC. And the only stuff I run in VEP is Kontakt and Play libraries...



I'm on VEP 6 running Kontakt and Play on my PC slave w/ Window 7. It has been rock solid and so I've decided to hold off on VEP 7 until a few more updates and the dust _really_ settles... no rush since VEP 6 has been performing flawlessly. BTW I should mentioned that I ket getting disconnection issues and rather unstable performance in VEP 5 so 6 was really a welcomed upgrade for me.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

nas said:


> I've decided to hold off on VEP 7 until a few more updates and the dust _really_ settles...



That's fine, but I'm telling you: the dust really has settled.


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## whinecellar

Nick Batzdorf said:


> That's fine, but I'm telling you: the dust really has settled.



Since I'm having to redo a handful of things with a new system, I'm tempted to try 7 if only for the vertical instance list (already missing that nice overview from 5), but I just got 6 up and running, and so far so good. If I have trouble with 7, I assume it's just a matter of uninstalling and then reinstalling 6? I also keep a backup of all related pref files, so I would restore those as well if need be...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

whinecellar said:


> reinstalling 6? I



Yes.

7 is worth it just for the plug-ins. As I think I wrote earlier in this thread, my favorite one is the exciter.


----------



## Dewdman42

whinecellar said:


> If I have trouble with 7, I assume it's just a matter of uninstalling and then reinstalling 6? I also keep a backup of all related pref files, so I would restore those as well if need be...



More or less. When I rolled back (both times), some things got kind of broken with elicenser, but I basically just did a complete uninstall of that, and manually removed all cache and pref files I could find related to VSL or elicenser, reinstalled, rebooted and eventually got it all working again, it was not painless, but doable. Your dongle will have both licenses on it. One thing to watch out for if you roll back is that the application file name of the VEP server changed in VEP7 to not have "(64 bit)" in the name of the 64 bit server application. After i rolled back I was having some problems when I kept trying to launch VEP from the dockbar and I was inadvertently launching the 32bit version and didn't know it. I would try to load my 64bit frame files and it would crash while loading and I was perplexed for a while, but eventually figured that out.

I actually don't like the vertical instance list, prefer them across the top. But I don't use many instances either. I don't really like the articulation display either, which is not optional, I wish it was. The included FX are definitely nice, mainly because of the presets and if and when I get back to using VEP7 I will definitely try to make use of them, though I have a lot of nice FX already. The Plugin manager is leaps better then before and doesn't crash VEP7 while scanning all my hundreds of plugins, VEP6 would crash 5-10 times while doing that. However a few plugins don't pass from Arturia and a few others that passed before but don't know. 

VEP7 performs significantly worse on my Sierra based 5,1 machine then VEP6, I have been interacting with VSL engineers for the past week to see if we can figure out a solution. I will report more findings on that after we have had a chance to try everything we can. Suffice it to say for now that in some circumstances, the GUI itself is grinding the CPU more than VEP6 and doubly so when HiDPI display modes are in effect. This appears to not be the case for some users, particularly I haven't heard any complaints from windows users yet, but a few from mac users. The main engineer I'm working with has a newer CPU and OS X version and does not experience the same performance hit in VEP7 that I am. So it might be fine for you as appears to be the case for some mac users. In my case, its adding 10-20% more to the average CPU load, which is quite significant and a deal breaker until it can be solved in some way other then me buying a new computer.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Dewdman42 said:


> This appears to not be the case for some users, particularly



Not for me on my Mojave 5,1. I have my second monitor running at 1080p HiDPI (as we discussed at great length), so there has to be more to the story.

It's also fine on my Windows 7 machine, which I use over Microsoft Remote Desktop.

The only issue I have is that when it checks for updates on my Windows machine and I tell it to go ahead, it downloads the update somewhere I can't find it and doesn't do it, so I have to do that manually.


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## Dewdman42

It may turn out that Mojave is a requirement to get performance equal or better then vep6 but we are still trying things and I will report more when i know more.


----------



## whinecellar

Nick Batzdorf said:


> ...The only issue I have is that when (VEP) checks for updates on my Windows machine and I tell it to go ahead, it downloads the update somewhere I can't find it and doesn't do it, so I have to do that manually.



Yeah, that’s happening for me on my Mac and Win10Pro machines as well, both running the latest versions of VEP 6. Weird.

@Dewdman42 - thanks again for your write-up of the issues you’ve experienced. I too am tempted to think it’s related to running an older OS on older hardware... hope you get it sorted out. I just bit the bullet on a new top-end MacBook Pro with a Vega 20 video card running Mojave, and while it has been quite a frustrating transition (the new T2 chip is an idiot), it is a smoking rig once everything gets working. VEP 6 is blowing me away so far!


----------



## Dewdman42

Just to be clear, vep6 runs much better on my old macpro and “old” OS. Something in the vep7 update doesn’t like it. For now. I am in the process of trying to setup a Mojave test situation but it’s very time consuming and apparently my Lynx card doesn't like Mojave yet and that will have to be resolved. Also VSL is looking at a couple things in their code to see if it can be rectified without requiring the OS upgrade. It’s also entirely possible that vep7 is now doing something that the 5,1 Xeon x5680 cpu isn’t good at, which of course I can’t do anything about but VSL is also looking into that too.

Also I want to be clear, vep7 does run and mostly seems fine. When I first started using it I was impressed. After a while I started noticing that whenever I minimize and un-minimize the app window; the cpu jumps up and down along with that much more than I remember in vep6. That doesn’t mean vep7 wasn’t running in a way that might seem fine on its own. So then I set out to do some very methodical performance testing using an exactly comparable situation between both vep6 and vep7 and have done that several times now with some further test builds and instructions from VSL, always with the same repeatable results that vep7 is incurring 10-20% more cpu then vep6 when the app window is open and even more if the display is a retina monitor in retina mode.

Regarding whether or not you should try it now has also to do with stability. While there have been reports on here of no problems from some people, there have been some people with problems. Last week there were several updates to vep7 and vep6 as people reported problems; and VSL is very actively trying to resolve them now. One bug related to pdc that I reported was fixed within 48 hours! Kudos to VSL for being on it. All I’m saying is that if you need to work, you might wanna wait a week or two. In my opinion the dust has not settled yet.

On the other hand if you are the kind of person that likes to get your teeth dirty breathing dust on a new release then why not?


----------



## agarner32

Dewdman42 said:


> On the other hand if you are the kind of person that likes to get your teeth dirty breathing dust on a new release then why not?


I'm happy to report I got my teeth "dirty breathing dust" and all is well with the latest version of VEP7. I haven't encountered any problems opening up a VEP6 template. I have an iMac (2019) and a PC slave running Windows 10.


----------



## Dewdman42

Alright. I have spent most of the weekend getting Mojave up and going. still a few things that are broken under Mojave on my system...which might never work again, but that's another story, overall I do have to say Mojave seems very smooth and a GeekBench test between Sierra and Mojave showed a 20% improvement in cpu performance, so there is that...

Now...as to VEP6, VEP7, OSX versions on 5,1 MacPro...etc...

with Mojave on my 5,1 MacPro, VEP7 is performing, not only just as well as VEP6, its actually performing significantly better! I have created a small spreadsheet with the results I did in various configurations, expressed as average CPU usage with a test project provided from VSL:



At this point I have to strongly recommend that anyone wishing to upgrade to VEP7 on a mac should strongly consider upgrading OSX to Mojave. Note that the above was using a private beta build v7.0.826, which is not yet available for download, but I'm sure will be in the next day or two. It does have some improvements that were discovered this week while working through this issue with VSL. So I will also highly recommend that all VEP7 users on Mojave update to that when its out.

I am happy to answer any questions anyone has about the above testing that was done.

For those of you stuck on Sierra and probably High Sierra, my recommendation is to think about upgrading to Mojave if you are serious about using VEP and especially VEP7. I think under Sierra, VEP6 is currently still a better choice due to performance, but the best choice is really Mojave and VEP7 according to my test results which were done very methodically.


----------



## Dewdman42

I am also pleased to report some good news for Cubase mac users. The performance with Cubase+VEP is still not as good as with LogicPro. By a factor of of around 2x actually. Its pretty significant. The interesting thing is that the Activity Monitor shows VEP7 as the process using all the CPU cycles; not Cubase, which is just playing midi tracks in my test. I don't know why VEP7 would need so much CPU to process tracks from Cubase vs tracks from LogicPro, but could be related in some way to the VST3 plugin vs the AU plugin. The VST3 plugin is using many midi ports and in my test the multiport macro is being used with the AU plugin to feed the same single-instance with 100 channels of VSL instruments and MirPro. This could be an area for VSL to look a little deeper.

In any case, notwithstanding, I am able to playback a 100 track project with VSL instruments and MirPro, something I am not able to do at all using Cubase alone, Cubase alone (on my mac), starts running out of CPU above 50 tracks and just craps out the audio halfway through. Same tracks played through VEP are able to play the whole project without glitch, though double the average CPU usage compared to LogicPro, at least it works much better then using Cubase alone!


----------



## kenose

Yeah I’ve noticed the same performance with VEP/Cubase on Mac. With ~35 instances in a rather large ~2500+ track Cubase template the whole thing idles at around 40% CPU usage, with each instance displaying 6-10% usage with all the channels disabled. Right now I just keep all the VEPro racks in Cubase disabled and enable them as neccessary. I haven’t built a similar size template in Logic, but instances connected to Logic tend to display a lower CPU usage when idle.


----------



## azeteg

Regarding performance with Cubase/Logic and VEP on Mac - Logic is definitely the better choice. However, ensure that you are doing an equal comparison. Logic tracks in playback mode uses the "process buffer range" setting, which is equivalent to "asio guard" in Cubase. This will use a larger buffer size to be used for the non-armed tracks, which will lower CPU usage. Unfortunately using asio guard in Cubase will cause a long pause in audio when delay compensation needs to be recalculated. Logic does not have this issue.


----------



## Cat

Regarding the Upgrade pricing: from the VSL's website it looks like the upgrade price (from VEP6 to VEP7) and the additional license price don't have a deadline (like the main license's full price does, until May 23). Am I correct?


----------



## Ben

No:


----------



## bvaughn0402

This is a "dumb" question ... but I'm new to VEP and VSL. How can I tell that I have Epic Orchestra 2.0 installed? I thought I installed it, but when I pull it up, it seems pretty scarce for such a larger library. I'm wondering if I'm missing something ...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

bvaughn0402 said:


> This is a "dumb" question ... but I'm new to VEP and VSL. How can I tell that I have Epic Orchestra 2.0 installed?



It should look something like this:


----------



## Ben

bvaughn0402 said:


> This is a "dumb" question ... but I'm new to VEP and VSL. How can I tell that I have Epic Orchestra 2.0 installed? I thought I installed it, but when I pull it up, it seems pretty scarce for such a larger library. I'm wondering if I'm missing something ...


The Epic orchestra is a seperat download in the Download Manager. If you have downloaded the ~40GB it will ask you if you want to install the instruments.


----------



## zolhof

Finally had a breather between projects and installed VEPro 7. No issues loading any vsts and my 3000 track template (I'm dumping that sucker and going for a more streamlined solution). In fact, v7 improved the one thing I wished the most: loading times. Previously, with a 48 port instance, it would take roughly 12 seconds to load a Vienna rack in Cubase 10/Win 10. Multiply that for xx instances and you see my problem. Now, I'm able to insert an instance with the same 48 midi ports in 1.72 seconds. That's huge!

And repeating what I said in page two of this thread: the new Suite Pro plugins are crazy good! So often overlooked and so awesome. I'm glad they are part of the bundle now.


----------



## azeteg

zolhof said:


> Finally had a breather between projects and installed VEPro 7. No issues loading any vsts and my 3000 track template (I'm dumping that sucker and going for a more streamlined solution). In fact, v7 improved the one thing I wished the most: loading times. Previously, with a 48 port instance, it would take roughly 12 seconds to load a Vienna rack in Cubase 10/Win 10. Multiply that for xx instances and you see my problem. Now, I'm able to insert an instance with the same 48 midi ports in 1.72 seconds. That's huge!
> 
> And repeating what I said in page two of this thread: the new Suite Pro plugins are crazy good! So often overlooked and so awesome. I'm glad they are part of the bundle now.



That’s really great news!

I spent quite some time optimizing the VST3 plugin for VEP7 - just to get it loading quicker - at 48 ports it creates an enormous amount of “dummy” parameters to handle MIDI CC. 48x16x127=97536 parameters per plugin, to be exact... for most plugins, with one port, this isn’t an issue - but with this many ports it sure is!

Cheers


----------



## Shubus

Ben said:


> The Epic orchestra is a seperate download in the Download Manager. If you have downloaded the ~40GB it will ask you if you want to install the instruments.


...And I say NO to installing it since it can only be installed on the boot disk.


----------



## NYC Composer

Is that true? And can’t be moved??


----------



## Dewdman42

Mine is not installed on the boot disk


----------



## ceemusic

Mine either, none of my VSL libraries are.


----------



## NYC Composer

Has anyone tried to run VEP 7 on El Capitan? I see it’s not officially supported, and I’d have to hack my Mac Pro 3.1 to upgrade my OS...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

NYC Composer said:


> Has anyone tried to run VEP 7 on El Capitan? I see it’s not officially supported, and I’d have to hack my Mac Pro 3.1 to upgrade my OS...



I haven't tried, but remember - the 32-bit version isn't included in the new version, so if you use it for old plug-ins you'll be out of luck.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ya, I got that part. If I understand correctly though, wouldn't I be able to run VEP 5 if I loaded it up instead, and therefore run 32 bit Plug ins as long as I didn't save the metaframe in 7?


----------



## azeteg

Shubus said:


> ...And I say NO to installing it since it can only be installed on the boot disk.



This is incorrect. Our sample libraries can be installed to any location.


----------



## NYC Composer

How bout El Cap, Martin?


----------



## azeteg

NYC Composer said:


> How bout El Cap, Martin?


VEPro should work on 10.10 Yosemite and newer macOS versions. I'd however recommend Mojave.


----------



## Pazpatu

Ben said:


> The Epic orchestra is a seperat download in the Download Manager. If you have downloaded the ~40GB it will ask you if you want to install the instruments.


Hi,
Same problem here. Synchron player and Epic Orchestra downloaded, licence activated but I am still not able to see the presets. I checked the location of the files (preferences) but Synchron is still "empty"...


----------



## jonesdip

Newbie quick Question. Does the cost of an additional license go up after initial discount period. i.e should I buy the additional license now.


----------



## azeteg

Pazpatu said:


> Hi,
> Same problem here. Synchron player and Epic Orchestra downloaded, licence activated but I am still not able to see the presets. I checked the location of the files (preferences) but Synchron is still "empty"...



Did you update the eLicenser Control Center?


----------



## azeteg

jonesdip said:


> Newbie quick Question. Does the cost of an additional license go up after initial discount period. i.e should I buy the additional license now.



Yes. Additional licenses are EUR 65 right now, and EUR 95 when the intro offer expires.


----------



## Pazpatu

azeteg said:


> Did you update the eLicenser Control Center?


I just did it now but no change...


----------



## azeteg

Pazpatu said:


> I just did it now but no change...


Please send an email to [email protected] - someone will help you out asap.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

NYC Composer said:


> Ya, I got that part. If I understand correctly though, wouldn't I be able to run VEP 5 if I loaded it up instead, and therefore run 32 bit Plug ins as long as I didn't save the metaframe in 7?



I tried launching VEPro 5 (with 7 installed), and you definitely can't launch the server - and I think you can't load both AU plug-ins.

The standalone VEPro 5 program did launch, so you could probably use it with IAC MIDI.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

azeteg said:


> Please send an email to [email protected] - someone will help you out asap.



Yeah, you download something like 40MB, and then it needs to install the full library as a separate process.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I tried launching VEPro 5 (with 7 installed), and you definitely can't launch the server - and I think you can't load both AU plug-ins.
> 
> The standalone VEPro 5 program did launch, so you could probably use it with IAC MIDI.


I just purchased VEP 7 and this sort of report is undermining my confidence with being able to use V5 when I want to (older projects). :( It looks like opening older V5 projects NOW in V7 will work but once 'saved' they are forever now in V7 (not able to open in V5) - which, if all works just fine no problem, but.... the paranoid part of my brain is screaming - will I have 'issues' working -- moving forward in V7?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Rob Elliott said:


> I just purchased VEP 7 and this sort of report is undermining my confidence with being able to use V5 when I want to (older projects). :( It looks like opening older V5 projects NOW in V7 will work but once 'saved' they are forever now in V7 (not able to open in V5) - which, if all works just fine no problem, but.... the paranoid part of my brain is screaming - will I have 'issues' working -- moving forward in V7?



Well, you can make copies of them and put them in a separate folder.

But I guess that could be an issue if the VE Pro instructions are stored with your sequences rather than as VE Pro Projects?


----------



## Dewdman42

Defimitely save your vep5 frames as separate vep7 files and keep the vep5 ones around just in case. I have not had any problems opening old frame files in vep7 FWIW. 

But yes if you want to use vep5 again you will have to uninstall vep7 and install it.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Great advice from both of you - thanks. Makes me feel better about moving forward on 7.


----------



## Dewdman42

*More Performance Test results with VEP7*

This was mainly to compare Cubase vs LogicPro and DP, both with and without VEP7.

*Test Configuration*

MacPro 5,1 12 cores x 3.33ghz, 128gb ram, OSX 10.14.5 (Mojave), RX580 video
LogicPro 10.4.4
Cubase 10.0.20
DP10.01
VEP 7.0.826
Audio Buffer at 1024
Test was performed with both application windows showing at 4k native resolution (_see image below_)
Test Project is E.T. Score tutorial originating from VSL website, it has been modified and runs on Cubase, Logic or DP with exactly same playback midi tracks feeding exactly the same VEP frame. ~100 tracks of VIPro instruments, MirPro and Miracle.
Procedure was to measure total system average CPU usage % every 3 seconds over 3 minutes while playing the first 3 minutes of the score.
Various combinations of Cubase ASIOGuard and LogicPro process buffer size were used to compare. Logic was testing with medium and Large Process Buffer size. DP was tested with low, medium, high audio priority.
*Results*







Full Google Spreadsheet here: 

*Summary*

LogicPro alone: wins the CPU war using *25%* average CPU usage.
LogicPro+VEP: *34%* avg cpu
Cubase+VEP: *49%* avg cpu
DP9+VEP: *38%* avg cpu
DP9 alone: * 35%* avg cpu. _ Also tried DP10 which performed 5% worse._
Cubase10 alone: *can't complete the task*, it will not play more than 15 seconds without crapping out. _I did try all possible combinations of buffer size, ASIO Guard, etc. Will not play the project._
*Notes*

I'm thrilled that VEP7 can be used to make up for the fact that Cubase10 on its own has horrible instrument performance on the Mac. And its not terribly worse then LogicPro+VEP and DP+VEP can do. I view VEP7 as essential to use with Cubase on Mac.
LogicPro has some kind of odd PDC situation, which I will call a bug for right now, where if you select an empty track header for playback as is often customary to avoid core spiking issues, then audio is sounding more than one full second later then VEP is processing things, so the VEP meters are out of sync with audio, by at least 1sec. This is most likely a LogicPro bug of some kind, Cubase works normally and even LogicPro works normally if you select one of the instrument tracks into Live mode prior to playback, but other problems can come along with that.
If you want to try to run your own test, you might be wondering how I gathered the CPU usage. I used the following unix terminal command:


Code:


iostat -w 3 -I -c 60

to gather avg cpu every 3 seconds for 3 minutes. Make sure you start it at exactly the same point of the cue as it plays back.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Dewdman42 said:


> VEP7 is giving me more fits about elicenser problems then I remember from VEP6, but otherwise is very smooth on Mojave so far.



This could just be the usual USB crap (I have to reinsert dongles every once in a while, although I don't think that's happened since I consolidated everything from about six dongles down to two).

But if not, definitely let [email protected] know. There was an issue early on that they fixed.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Dewdman42 said:


> Test was performed with both application windows showing at 4k native resolution (_see image below_)



Just curious, do you notice a difference in performance with different screen resolutions? I have a very similar machine to yours with a Radeon RX560, and I haven't noticed anything.

It takes about 4/5 of a second for Logic to switch screensets, regardless of whether the window configurations span two monitors or not.


----------



## Dewdman42

nearly every day I am getting a LOT of elicenser problems, especially when I switch back and forth between LogicPro, Cubase and VEP. I shouldn't have to reinsert the dongle and its in the back of my machine where its safer, but also less convenient. The problem in my opinion is related to syncronsoft caching. I am going to wait for the dust to settle on VEP7 before posing lots of questions about this, but in a few weeks I plan to do that.


----------



## Dewdman42

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Just curious, do you notice a difference in performance with different screen resolutions? I have a very similar machine to yours with a Radeon RX560, and I haven't noticed anything.
> 
> It takes about 4/5 of a second for Logic to switch screensets, regardless of whether the window configurations span two monitors or not.



I did extensive testing last week on different display modes. On Sierra and probably High Sierra, yes VEP7 is using substantially more CPU when HiDPI settings are used. Actually its using substantially more just to display the GUI and double that if HiDPI is on. VSL provided me several different test builds to try different things. Nothing has worked so far. However after I upgraded to Mojave all of those GUI related issues went away. In fact in the process of doing all that Martin found some ways to improve GUI performance even more, but only on Mojave. So running VEP7 under Mojave out-performs VEP6 on every count, including big screens sizes and HiDPI too. However, older versions of OSX are going to struggle a bit unless/until they figure out a workaround.

Older versions of OSX are running VEP7 less performantly then VEP6 by all the tests I did, when the VEP gui is active and especially so when HiDPI mode is active. Sierra and probably High Sierra will get best results either using VEP6, or else avoid using HiDPI and avoid having the VEP window open. For now.

Mojave also bench marked 20% faster on my mac with geekbench, compared to Sierra...could have something to do with the GPU and metal assistance, no idea.


----------



## rhye

Dewdman, I'd like to thank you for taking the time of making all these detailed analysis and sharing them with the community. It is fascinating


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Dewdman42 said:


> However after I upgraded to Mojave all of those GUI related issues went away. In fact in the process of doing all that Martin found some ways to improve GUI performance even more, but only on Mojave. So running VEP7 under Mojave out-performs VEP6 on every count, including big screens sizes and HiDPI too. However, older versions of OSX are going to struggle a bit unless/until they figure out a workaround.



That makes sense, given that Mojave includes a firmware update for our machine.


----------



## Dewdman42

well I went back to VEP6 and Sierra again on my machine after the firmware update to retest using an experimental build from VSL and it was not faster. The firmware is not making our machine faster. The firmware is mostly just so that we can boot from NVMe and APFS devices and stuff like that. The speed improvements are I believe due to Mojave's Metal integration combined with the way VEP7 is coded to take advantage of those Mojave features. The bummer is that these GUI related changes in VEP7 run slower on OSX prior to Mojave. But I have found Mojave very good and solid and snappy and like I said, I scored 20% better with GeekBench, so its all good, I even got my 32bit plugins to work finally. So as of now, no complaints, I'm liking it a lot. folks with older hardware that can't go to Mojave, that's another story, if it were me I'd stay on VEP5/6 until VSL announces they have a fix for older OSX, or be prepared for some extra CPU overhead.


----------



## Shubus

azeteg said:


> This is incorrect. Our sample libraries can be installed to any location.


I stand corrected...figured it out. Tnx!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Dewdman42 said:


> I even got my 32bit plugins to work finally



They have a graphic bug on my machine - the UIs, if they show up, are several inches away from where they're supposed to be.

That's in VE Pro - they actually do work right in Pro Tools 10, which only runs 32-bit plug-ins. However, PT 10 has its own menu-drawing graphic issue in anything later than... I think Yosemite.



Dewdman42 said:


> The firmware is mostly just so that we can boot from NVMe and APFS devices and stuff like that.



I think it's also necessary to support graphics cards with Metal, because you have to go as far as High Sierra with the stock graphics card before putting in the [RX560 in my case].


----------



## webs

Dewdman42 said:


> *More Performance Test results with VEP7*
> 
> This was mainly to compare Cubase vs LogicPro and DP, both with and without VEP7.
> 
> *Test Configuration*
> 
> MacPro 5,1 12 cores x 3.33ghz, 128gb ram, OSX 10.14.5 (Mojave)
> LogicPro 10.4.4
> Cubase 10.0.20
> DP10.01
> VEP 7.0.826
> Test was performed with both application windows showing at 4k native resolution (_see image below_)
> Test Project is E.T. Score tutorial originating from VSL website, it has been modified and runs on Cubase, Logic or DP with exactly same playback midi tracks feeding exactly the same VEP frame. ~100 tracks of VIPro instruments, MirPro and Miracle.
> Procedure was to measure total system average CPU usage % every 3 seconds over 3 minutes while playing the first 3 minutes of the score.
> Various combinations of Cubase ASIOGuard and LogicPro process buffer size were used to compare. Logic was testing with medium and Large Process Buffer size. DP was tested with low, medium, high audio priority.
> *Results*
> 
> 
> 
> *Summary*
> 
> LogicPro is able to play the project without VEP with the greatest efficiency, using *25%* average CPU usage.
> LogicPro+VEP, same tracks, instruments and FX with *34%* average CPU
> Cubase+VEP can play same tracks at *49%* average cpu usage.
> DP+VEP can do it at around *45%* avg cpu, but I'm not sure if there is some config I can do to make it better.
> Cubase ASIOGuard did not improve performance, in fact better performance happened with ASIOGuard off.
> Cubase *alone cannot play* the project with or without ASIO Guard.
> I haven't done DP alone yet, will update here if I do.
> *Notes*
> 
> I'm thrilled that VEP7 can be used to make up for the fact that Cubase10 on its own has horrible instrument performance on the Mac. And its not terribly worse then LogicPro+VEP, and very close to what DP+VEP can do.
> LogicPro has some kind of odd PDC situation, which I will call a bug for right now, where if you select an empty track header for playback as is often customary to avoid core spiking issues, then audio is sounding more than one full second later then VEP is processing things, so the VEP meters are out of sync with audio, by at least 1sec. This is most likely a LogicPro bug of some kind, Cubase works normally and even LogicPro works normally if you select one of the instrument tracks into Live mode prior to playback, but other problems can come along with that.
> VEP7 is giving me more fits about elicenser problems then I remember from VEP6, but otherwise is very smooth on Mojave so far.




Thank you so much for doing this! 
And do we predict that ultimately with a stable vep 7 version Logic + VEP will outperfom Logic without VEP?


----------



## Dewdman42

no I don't think so, Logic performs very well on its own. That is lowest CPU scenario I have tried so far, but I'm still messing around with DP and I plan to run Reaper through the same tests at some point.

But keep in mind there are operational advantages to using VEP, despite that you need a little more CPU overall then if you just use LogicPro alone. And Cubase is crippled without VEP! DP looks like it might be also a bit crippled without VEP, but I'm still working through how to optimize it, I'm not that expert at using DP, but its doing some weird stuff, even while idle, spinning the CPU in "realTime" mode, way more then the other DAW's. There must be a setting to stop that from happening but I have not found it yet, but basically I can get the DP+VEP performance almost as low as Logic+VEP. But DP alone, is not doing very well either, but it might be something about MirPro and ViPro that is not happy with DP...more later.....


----------



## Dewdman42

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I think it's also necessary to support graphics cards with Metal, because you have to go as far as High Sierra with the stock graphics card before putting in the [RX560 in my case].



Not that that it really matters, but no Metal has nothing do with the firmware. The firmware is really pretty simple and very very low level dealing with your CPU and microcodes that can effect how it performs, and the ability for the motherboard to be able to read certain file systems before OSX has loaded, and things like that. You can use the new firmware with Sierra and older OSX too.

The firmware was updated in High Sierra mainly for APFS support, otherwise you would not be able to boot up from an APFS drive, for example.

Later on was another firmware update that enabled NVMe drives to boot up before OSX is loaded..

recently a security vulnerability was found related to hyper threading, so believe it or not Intel just recently announced this vulnerability and the only protection is to disable hyper threading with potential loss of performance as much as 40%. Yes you read that right. So a recent firmware update provides support to turn off hyper threading (Which I don't plan to do by the way). Other CPU oriented security vulnerabilities have sometimes had to be resolved through a firmware update.

OSX, on the other hand, was improved in Mojave by adding many graphics oriented routines that make use of the Metal framework...its all software in OSX...such that Mojave requires a Metal card. This makes Mojave more efficient because its utilizing the GPU of your video card do some some of the desktop rendering, etc.. The Firmware is not involved there really

here is a list of the firmware updates from the past couple years and more info about it:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...requisite-to-disable-hyper-threading.2132317/


----------



## TeamLeader

Dewdman42 said:


> *More Performance Test results with VEP7*
> 
> This was mainly to compare Cubase vs LogicPro and DP, both with and without VEP7.
> 
> *Test Configuration*
> 
> DP+VEP can do it at around *45%* avg cpu, but I'm not sure if there is some config I can do to make it better.




Thank you for all of this DEwdman. Very appreciated. With DP, are you using the special MAS VEP plugin, or AU?


----------



## richhickey

Dewdman42 said:


> no I don't think so, Logic performs very well on its own. That is lowest CPU scenario I have tried so far, but I'm still messing around with DP and I plan to run Reaper through the same tests at some point.
> 
> But keep in mind there are operational advantages to using VEP, despite that you need a little more CPU overall then if you just use LogicPro alone. And Cubase is crippled without VEP! DP looks like it might be also a bit crippled without VEP, but I'm still working through how to optimize it, I'm not that expert at using DP, but its doing some weird stuff, even while idle, spinning the CPU in "realTime" mode, way more then the other DAW's. There must be a setting to stop that from happening but I have not found it yet, but basically I can get the DP+VEP performance almost as low as Logic+VEP. But DP alone, is not doing very well either, but it might be something about MirPro and ViPro that is not happy with DP...more later.....



Cool stuff, thanks! I'm very interested in your DP findings.


----------



## Dewdman42

I have been using the MAS plugin in DP. I want to do more tests in DP because I think I don' have the settings right there now.


----------



## TeamLeader

Dewdman42 said:


> I have been using the MAS plugin in DP. I want to do more tests in DP because I think I don' have the settings right there now.


wonderful Dewd. In the past the DP was version has been extremely efficient.


----------



## rhye

In light of this recent events, I wonder if Logic + VE pro could get better results using more instances with less in them.


----------



## rhye

I also wonder if the results are dependent on the actual sampler used. Dewdman, are you using only Vienna instruments or also Kontakt ?


----------



## Dewdman42

rhye said:


> In light of this recent events, I wonder if Logic + VE pro could get better results using more instances with less in them.



its worth trying, but I'm burned out on testing right now. I don't want to work that way, so its not that interesting to me. I would expect performance to be slightly worse frankly, but it would be interesting to have as a comparison. It would take a lot of work for me to setup that test though, so might not happen.


----------



## Dewdman42

rhye said:


> I also wonder if the results are dependent on the actual sampler used. Dewdman, are you using only Vienna instruments or also Kontakt ?



Of course you should not consider my results to be the same results that someone else might get using a different sampler or instruments, plugins, etc.. Its all relative. I used the same exact tracks with instruments in order to compare Logic vs Cubase vs DP and to compare with-VEP vs without. You could of course try to replicate the test using Kontakt instead of VIPro, but I would expect similar results, relatively speaking...but might be higher or lower CPU depending on the track count, which plugins, machine you're running on, etc. But still the relative differences between these hosts should be fairly consistent, but of course, no way to know without trying it. But I will leave that to someone else.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Dewdman42 said:


> no Metal has nothing do with the firmware



Then is the driver for the card part of High Sierra?


----------



## Dewdman42

The driver for the card has existed in OSX since before High Sierra. works in Sierra too. However, the driver does NOT have to always be using Metal. The card is capable of Metal when asked by the operating system or apps. In Mojave, its now being asked by OSX to use Metal enough so that Apple decided to make it a requirement that a metal card is needed for Mojave.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Dewdman42 said:


> The driver for the card has existed in OSX since before High Sierra



That would make sense, since the RX460 works in earlier versions (I know because I had one briefly).

But I also know from reading reports of failed Mojave updates that you *must update your 5,1 to High Sierra with the original card installed* first. Apple spells that out very clearly on their site; there's something in there that it needs.

To me it makes sense that it's in the firmware, but you say no.


----------



## Dewdman42

The main reason for needing your original vid card was because the RX vid cards still do not have a mac boot screen. Not then and not now. Once OSX loads, then the video drivers are there, but you can't get to the really low level boot screen with the RX video cards. You can get to recovery mode, which has access to OSX drivers and utilities of course. In any case, the older firmware updates required you to be able to get to a low level boot screen in order to apply the firmware update. So that is why you had to put in the old original video card that actually has the mac boot rom code in it to see that boot screen. Some other Nvidia cards had the ability to be custom flashed with a mac boot room, you an still find them and buy them, but the RX series currently does not have that capability.

In any case the High Sierra updater had some dependency on that old firmware updater, which required the boot screen. That's why you needed your old card to install High Sierra. 

With Mojave, Apple made the firmware updater smarter in that it can apply the built in firmware update without requiring you to see the boot screen. You still do not see any mac boot screen...OSX has to load up enough first before you see the white screen with Apple on it..that is not the boot screen..that is OSX with OSX drivers. but its just that from Mojave forwards, Apple firmware updates are done better so that you don't actually NEED to see the mac boot screen...but its entirely possible at some point in the future there might be some need to get to that boot screen, so keep your old video card around just in case.

The link I posted above and many other sources on the internet have a lot more information on this topic.


----------



## DANIELE

I'm having another problem with VEP7.

If I put a note on the play cursor and I hit play I'll never hear that note, it doesn't play the first note. With some instruments like Infinite Brass the first note plays instead. Do you know what kind of problem should be?


----------



## jonesdip

Newbie question. I have VEPro 6 currently installed on one PC. I just bought VEPro 7. This is the first time to upgrade. Is installation as simple as running the installer? Does the installer automatically remove VEPro 6 from my PC? Is there some sort of guide somewhere? Sorry to butt into this very informative and technical thread with such a simple question but as a VSL newbie I'd appreciate the help. Thanks in advance.


----------



## azeteg

jonesdip said:


> Newbie question. I have VEPro 6 currently installed on one PC. I just bought VEPro 7. This is the first time to upgrade. Is installation as simple as running the installer? Does the installer automatically remove VEPro 6 from my PC? Is there some sort of guide somewhere? Sorry to butt into this very informative and technical thread with such a simple question but as a VSL newbie I'd appreciate the help. Thanks in advance.



You can install VEP7 right over VEP6 without problems. Going from VEP7 back to VEP6, I would recommend uninstalling VEP7 first, then installing VEP6


----------



## azeteg

Dewdman42 said:


> *More Performance Test results with VEP7*
> 
> This was mainly to compare Cubase vs LogicPro and DP, both with and without VEP7.
> 
> *Test Configuration*
> 
> MacPro 5,1 12 cores x 3.33ghz, 128gb ram, OSX 10.14.5 (Mojave), RX580 video
> LogicPro 10.4.4
> Cubase 10.0.20
> DP10.01
> VEP 7.0.826
> Audio Buffer at 1024
> Test was performed with both application windows showing at 4k native resolution (_see image below_)
> Test Project is E.T. Score tutorial originating from VSL website, it has been modified and runs on Cubase, Logic or DP with exactly same playback midi tracks feeding exactly the same VEP frame. ~100 tracks of VIPro instruments, MirPro and Miracle.
> Procedure was to measure total system average CPU usage % every 3 seconds over 3 minutes while playing the first 3 minutes of the score.
> Various combinations of Cubase ASIOGuard and LogicPro process buffer size were used to compare. Logic was testing with medium and Large Process Buffer size. DP was tested with low, medium, high audio priority.
> *Results*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full Google Spreadsheet here:
> 
> *Summary*
> 
> LogicPro alone: wins the CPU war using *25%* average CPU usage.
> LogicPro+VEP: *34%* avg cpu
> Cubase+VEP: *49%* avg cpu
> DP9+VEP: *38%* avg cpu
> DP9 alone: * 35%* avg cpu. _ Also tried DP10 which performed 5% worse._
> Cubase10 alone: *can't complete the task*, it will not play more than 15 seconds without crapping out. _I did try all possible combinations of buffer size, ASIO Guard, etc. Will not play the project._
> *Notes*
> 
> I'm thrilled that VEP7 can be used to make up for the fact that Cubase10 on its own has horrible instrument performance on the Mac. And its not terribly worse then LogicPro+VEP and DP+VEP can do. I view VEP7 as essential to use with Cubase on Mac.
> LogicPro has some kind of odd PDC situation, which I will call a bug for right now, where if you select an empty track header for playback as is often customary to avoid core spiking issues, then audio is sounding more than one full second later then VEP is processing things, so the VEP meters are out of sync with audio, by at least 1sec. This is most likely a LogicPro bug of some kind, Cubase works normally and even LogicPro works normally if you select one of the instrument tracks into Live mode prior to playback, but other problems can come along with that.
> If you want to try to run your own test, you might be wondering how I gathered the CPU usage. I used the following unix terminal command:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> iostat -w 3 -I -c 60
> 
> to gather avg cpu every 3 seconds for 3 minutes. Make sure you start it at exactly the same point of the cue as it plays back.




Just to clarify: in this screenshot you are showing both apps open at once, and you are also measuring total system CPU usage. This will of course increase the GUI CPU usage, but it should not impact the real-time thread performance. I think the values yo are seeing for VEP+Logic will go down quite a bit if you close the VEP GUI. Otherwise, it could be that you are just measuring the load created by the extra GUI activity on screen. iostat will not measure time critical threads only, which is what matters for actual audio performance.


----------



## jonesdip

azeteg said:


> You can install VEP7 right over VEP6 without problems. Going from VEP7 back to VEP6, I would recommend uninstalling VEP7 first, then installing VEP6


Many thanks - it's appreciated.


----------



## Dewdman42

azeteg said:


> Just to clarify: in this screenshot you are showing both apps open at once, and you are also measuring total system CPU usage. This will of course increase the GUI CPU usage, but it should not impact the real-time thread performance. I think the values yo are seeing for VEP+Logic will go down quite a bit if you close the VEP GUI. Otherwise, it could be that you are just measuring the load created by the extra GUI activity on screen. iostat will not measure time critical threads only, which is what matters for actual audio performance.



Under Mojave the hit you describe is less significant but it’s a good point I will try that tonight, though having both guis open is kind of important. Most people are going to be working with both guis open. The point of this test was not to isolate dsp performance but to simply compare a real world situation between the three daws with and without vep.

Cubase actually runs significantly better with vep then without. Dp is about the same either way. Logicpro alone is more efficient. 

As I said there are still workflow advantages to using vep with Logic Pro, it’s not all about saving cpu cycles


----------



## azeteg

Dewdman42 said:


> Under Mojave the hit you describe is less significant but it’s a good point I will try that tonight, though having both guis open is kind of important. Most people are going to be working with both guis open. The point of this test was not to isolate dsp performance but to simply compare a real world situation between the three daws with and without vep.
> 
> Cubase actually runs significantly better with vep then without. Dp is about the same either way. Logicpro alone is more efficient.
> 
> As I said there are still workflow advantages to using vep with Logic Pro, it’s not all about saving cpu cycles



I completely agree - except that the GUI will just get a bit slower if the audio threads need more juice. GUI performance might increase system CPU usage, but really shouldn't impact the audio performance.


----------



## DANIELE

Could someone tell me how much time it takes to visualize the GUI of the main VST3 plugin in his DAW?

I mean, you have to go on the main plugin track and click the button (or use the shortcut) to show the plugin GUI.

In Reaper it takes more than 8 seconds every time.

Thank you.


----------



## maestro2be

Anyone else having VE Pro 7 crash when they mute and unmute channels within VE Pro? Doesn't matter if it's VI Pro instances or Kontakt. If I click faster than say 1 per every 4-5 seconds, it will crash the entire program. Sent a support ticket already about it earlier in the week.

Thanks


----------



## rrichard63

maestro2be said:


> Anyone else having VE Pro 7 crash when they mute and unmute channels within VE Pro? Doesn't matter if it's VI Pro instances or Kontakt. If I click faster than say 1 per every 4-5 seconds, it will crash the entire program. Sent a support ticket already about it earlier in the week.
> 
> Thanks


By "mute and unmute" do you mean disable and enable? If so, I have been having the same problem in VE Pro 6. On my system, it seems to be limited to VI Pro and the free Vienna Instruments. I haven't seen it with Kontakt yet. Like @maestro2be, I've tentatively decided that it is related to disabling and enabling in rapid succession -- something I would normally do to replace one instrument with another in an arrangement. But I haven't been able to prove that this is the source of the problem. Tech support has been unable to identify a cause from the crash report I sent them.

I haven't installed VE Pro 7 yet because I hope to have some time to investigate further in version 6.


----------



## maestro2be

rrichard63 said:


> By "mute and unmute" do you mean disable and enable? If so, I have been having the same problem in VE Pro 6. On my system, it seems to be limited to VI Pro and the free Vienna Instruments. I haven't seen it with Kontakt yet. Like @maestro2be, I've tentatively decided that it is related to disabling and enabling in rapid succession -- something I would normally do to replace one instrument with another in an arrangement. But I haven't been able to prove that this is the source of the problem. Tech support has been unable to identify a cause from the crash report I sent them.
> 
> I haven't installed VE Pro 7 yet because I hope to have some time to investigate further in version 6.



I actually just meant inside of VE Pro, hitting the "M" to mute that channel. If I do that in any sort of rapid succession it would crash every time. It got so bad I decided to uninstall VE Pro 7 and go back to VE Pro 6. So far all good with no crashes. I will just stay here for a while.


----------



## DaddyO

Finally had a chance to install and begin to work with VEP 7; seems to be functioning well though I've hardly put it through it's paces. 

I really like the vertical alignment option for instances.


----------



## DANIELE

Ok the problem with VST3 plugin and Reaper seems solved in the last beta release of Reaper.
I have to publicly thank VSL devs who kept me updated and solved this issues together with Reaper devs.

I reserve myself to test it deeply once it cames out in a final release.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Sounds like good news, glad there's light at the end of your tunnel Daniele.


----------



## azeteg

DANIELE said:


> Ok the problem with VST3 plugin and Reaper seems solved in the last beta release of Reaper.
> I have to publicly thank VSL devs who kept me updated and solved this issues together with Reaper devs.
> 
> I reserve myself to test it deeply once it cames out in a final release.



Indeed it should be fixed now. Glad that we could help


----------



## benatural

Finally got around to installing VEP 7. I was hesitant because I'm wrapping up a big project and I didn't want to risk it. Similar deal with Nuendo 10. But I figured what the heck, worst thing I'll need to do is reinstall v6... I can report that VEP 7 and Nuendo 10 are working very nicely together with my set up. I've found that saves in N10 are just a bit more snappy, though who knows it could be my imagination.


----------



## EgM

benatural said:


> Finally got around to installing VEP 7. I was hesitant because I'm wrapping up a big project and I didn't want to risk it. Similar deal with Nuendo 10. But I figured what the heck, worst thing I'll need to do is reinstall v6... I can report that VEP 7 and Nuendo 10 are working very nicely together with my set up. I've found that saves in N10 are just a bit more snappy, though who knows it could be my imagination.



I believe faster saves were part of this update.


----------



## benatural

EgM said:


> I believe faster saves were part of this update.


Well, that's awesome news!


----------



## DANIELE

Guy Rowland said:


> Sounds like good news, glad there's light at the end of your tunnel Daniele.



Yeah finally, now I have to try it on my main installation, I'm waiting for Reaper devs to put it in a final release to fully test it but from the portable installation I tried now it works great. I have only to test what workflow works best in my template.



azeteg said:


> Indeed it should be fixed now. Glad that we could help



Thank you for helping me and for sorting this out, and thank you for keeping me updated on your progress.
This has been a good point for Reaper too because they should have solved some lacking VST3 implementations.


----------



## rhye

Sharing my experience: Moved to VEpro7 right after it came out. Vertical instance list is nice and the GUI looks sharper, however loading projects takes about 50% longer as well as saving. It’s worth mentioning that I have about 100 instances, so maybe that’s why my experience is different from the majority. 
Actual performance with Logic Pro is the same as with VEPro6


----------



## Sample Fuel

rhye said:


> Sharing my experience: Moved to VEpro7 right after it came out. Vertical instance list is nice and the GUI looks sharper, however loading projects takes about 50% longer as well as saving. It’s worth mentioning that I have about 100 instances, so maybe that’s why my experience is different from the majority.
> Actual performance with Logic Pro is the same as with VEPro6



Similar Experience with Cubase 10. Slow load and extremely slow closing a sequence compared to VE PRO 6. It is discussed on the Vienna forum with no one from Vienna participating in the discussion....very disappointing that they are not engaged in the conversation.


----------



## Dewdman42

rhye said:


> Sharing my experience: Moved to VEpro7 right after it came out. Vertical instance list is nice and the GUI looks sharper, however loading projects takes about 50% longer as well as saving. It’s worth mentioning that I have about 100 instances, so maybe that’s why my experience is different from the majority.
> Actual performance with Logic Pro is the same as with VEPro6



I actually measured it. VEPpro7 takes exactly the same amount of time to load the projects I tried compared to VEPro6. Exactly the same. test projects were around 100 tracks of VSL instruments. Its always possible other plugins have issues, but measure it before saying it takes 50% longer, I doubt it.

Now that being said, could be because of 100 instances too, I don't use that setup, Measure it exactly and report it to VSL if so. I have found them to be pretty responsive when real bugs are actually found. way more responsive then a lot of other software companies. I give them that..

I can also tell you with measured certainty also that VEPro7 is significantly better CPU performance then VEPro6, but only if you're on Mojave. If you're on an older version of OSX, then VePro6 is in fact a little more performant then VePro7. VePro7 is making use of newer GUI related libraries that are apparently making better use of Mojave, Metal and all that... its definitely better performance, particularly with regards to when the GUI is open, and when using HiDPI, etc. I did measured and methodical performance tests and also had some communication with VSL engineers who also saw much superior performance on their Mojave based system as well.


----------



## rhye

Dewdman42 said:


> I actually measured it. VEPpro7 takes exactly the same amount of time to load the projects I tried compared to VEPro6. Exactly the same. test projects were around 100 tracks of VSL instruments. Its always possible other plugins have issues, but measure it before saying it takes 50% longer, I doubt it.
> 
> Now that being said, could be because of 100 instances too, I don't use that setup, Measure it exactly and report it to VSL if so. I have found them to be pretty responsive when real bugs are actually found. way more responsive then a lot of other software companies. I give them that..
> 
> I can also tell you with measured certainty also that VEPro7 is significantly better CPU performance then VEPro6, but only if you're on Mojave. If you're on an older version of OSX, then VePro6 is in fact a little more performant then VePro7. VePro7 is making use of newer GUI related libraries that are apparently making better use of Mojave, Metal and all that... its definitely better performance, particularly with regards to when the GUI is open, and when using HiDPI, etc. I did measured and methodical performance tests and also had some communication with VSL engineers who also saw much superior performance on their Mojave based system as well.


Actually, I run VEPro only on my Windows 10 slave, so I have no idea how it would run in Mac, but in my setup (using many instances) it does take way longer to load.


----------



## Ashermusic

Dewdman42 said:


> I actually measured it. VEPpro7 takes exactly the same amount of time to load the projects I tried compared to VEPro6. Exactly the same. test projects were around 100 tracks of VSL instruments. Its always possible other plugins have issues, but measure it before saying it takes 50% longer, I doubt it.
> 
> Now that being said, could be because of 100 instances too, I don't use that setup, Measure it exactly and report it to VSL if so. I have found them to be pretty responsive when real bugs are actually found. way more responsive then a lot of other software companies. I give them that..
> 
> I can also tell you with measured certainty also that VEPro7 is significantly better CPU performance then VEPro6, but only if you're on Mojave. If you're on an older version of OSX, then VePro6 is in fact a little more performant then VePro7. VePro7 is making use of newer GUI related libraries that are apparently making better use of Mojave, Metal and all that... its definitely better performance, particularly with regards to when the GUI is open, and when using HiDPI, etc. I did measured and methodical performance tests and also had some communication with VSL engineers who also saw much superior performance on their Mojave based system as well.




+1, but I too am on Mojave.


----------



## Sample Fuel

rhye said:


> Actually, I run VEPro only on my Windows 10 slave, so I have no idea how it would run in Mac, but in my setup (using many instances) it does take way longer to load.



On windows 10 as well....and I can confirm in my case it loads probably 75% slower and close times can take over 10 minutes when it usually is less than a minute on VE PRO 6. This has been reported in detail to them with very little response. Judging from another users post on Vienna's site I do think it has to do with certain instruments and even more specifically maybe certain kinds of patches in instruments.

In my case I identified that I use a tremendous amount of HALion 6 and HALion Sonic SE instances, and when the patches utilize a convolution effect (either the convolution reverb or the amp vst which is convolution based) the initial connect time is very long only the first time then it behaves as normal. I thought this might be a Steinberg specific issue but last week this behaviour was reported by someone who does not use any HALion instruments. So it is possible that this is all related to the issues I am seeing in VE PRO 7.


----------



## Henning

Had purchased when it was announced some months ago. Installed yesterday over existing version 6. Everything fine on Win7 with Nuendo on main machine and Win8 slave. Projects load correctly. Feels snappier. Filesizes of saved projects are definitely smaller.


----------



## Simon Ravn

I have Kontakt 5 hanging with "Converting..."-something dialogue about every 3 times I load a project in VEP7. It seems to happen to the first instance using Kontakt. Obviously this is probably project-specific and if I rebuilt my VEP project with Kontakt 6 instead it would most likely not hang. Haven't gotten around to doing that though. Apart from that it seems loading speed is about the same as VEP6 here (Mac Pro, Mojave). Connecting/disconnecting seems faster though.


----------



## rhye

Sample Fuel said:


> On windows 10 as well....and I can confirm in my case it loads probably 75% slower and close times can take over 10 minutes when it usually is less than a minute on VE PRO 6. This has been reported in detail to them with very little response. Judging from another users post on Vienna's site I do think it has to do with certain instruments and even more specifically maybe certain kinds of patches in instruments.
> 
> In my case I identified that I use a tremendous amount of HALion 6 and HALion Sonic SE instances, and when the patches utilize a convolution effect (either the convolution reverb or the amp vst which is convolution based) the initial connect time is very long only the first time then it behaves as normal. I thought this might be a Steinberg specific issue but last week this behaviour was reported by someone who does not use any HALion instruments. So it is possible that this is all related to the issues I am seeing in VE PRO 7.



My template opens up with everything disabled, so in my case I don’t think it has anything to do with a specific plugin. They are mostly Kontakt anyway....


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## Sample Fuel

rhye said:


> My template opens up with everything disabled, so in my case I don’t think it has anything to do with a specific plugin. They are mostly Kontakt anyway....



That does question whether it is a specific plugin or not. In my case I still suspect it might be plugin related. I can see some of the instances connect fast while a couple of them seem to take a long time. When I get more time I will try to investigate a bit more but I am not confident I will be able to pin point my issues.


----------



## Ben

Now available: a "key-less" demo version (without the need to install eLicenser or own a eLicenser dongle): https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Software_Package/Vienna_Ensemble_Pro


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## LinusW

Ben said:


> VEP itself has a VST3 version, but itself cannot host VST3 plugins (for now). But they are working on this feature, it just didn't make it in the first release. We have just to wait for an update in near feature


I need to host VST3 badly. Must have. Just take my wallet and fix it. @azeteg hurry!


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## Dewdman42

hopefully they will, but VST3 hosting is a big change from VST2 programmatically. If they didn't do it in VEP7, I doubt it will happen in VEP 7.1. Maybe Vep8. Doesn't hurt to ask though.


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## ptram

Since VSL insists to say that the less instances you use, the better it is for your computer, I would like to create my template basing it on a single instance, lot of channels, folders and sub folders to keep them organized.

However, I’m on Logic. More than 16 channels for instance is only allowed by AU3 (unless I want to use obsolete workarounds - that I don't want). What's your experience with the AU3 beta? I don't see many updates on this new feature.

Paolo


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## Dewdman42

Works good for me


----------



## nas

So what is the general consensus now regarding Logic with VEP 7 and number of instances? Is it more efficient to use an instance per instrument as has been recommended in the past ? or much fewer instances and populate them with more multi-timbral / multi-instruments?

Mind you the question is specifically for Logic users with VEP 7.


----------



## Ashermusic

nas said:


> So what is the general consensus now regarding Logic with VEP 7 and number of instances? Is it more efficient to use an instance per instrument as has been recommended in the past ? or much fewer instances and populate them with more multi-timbral / multi-instruments?
> 
> Mind you the question is specifically for Logic users with VEP 7.




I continue to use a lot of instances in VE Pro7 with Logic with no problem at all.


----------



## EgM

I use like 200 instances without issues


----------



## ptram

On a GUI point of view, I would prefer to use separate instances for each section. They are just easier to navigate.

But another issue, once confirmed that more instances are no problem at all, is how to use MIR if one relies on it as a reverb. If I remember correctly, using it as a plugin would serve all instances at the same time.

Paolo


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## Dewdman42

You can put an instance of mir inside each vep instance and just use the same room for each one. You just won’t see all players on one stage. Or you can use the au version of mirpro in logic’s Mixer, either way


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## Dewdman42

nas said:


> So what is the general consensus now regarding Logic with VEP 7 and number of instances? Is it more efficient to use an instance per instrument as has been recommended in the past ? or much fewer instances and populate them with more multi-timbral / multi-instruments?
> 
> Mind you the question is specifically for Logic users with VEP 7.



Personally I don’t think it makes much difference in terms of performance, especially once you are working with more then a couple tracks of mixdown. Choose the workflow that suits you.


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## Manaberry

EgM said:


> I use like 200 instances without issues



200? How to do get that number? having one channel per instance? xD


----------



## Dietz

ptram said:


> [...] MIR [...] If I remember correctly, using it as a plugin would serve all instances at the same time.


Your memory serves you absolutely right.


----------



## ptram

In the end, I will go with one VEPRO instance for section. Better still, one for each 16 MIDI channels, until the AU3 plugin is not completely tried and tested.

Mixing will happen mostly inside MIR for acoustic pieces. Volume and pan will be replaced by onstage positioning.

As for EQ and compression, replacing Logic effects with the ones in VEPRO is something that I planned to do, since the presets tailored for orchestral sounds are a better starting point than Logic's mostly pop/rock/edm ones.

Final effects, like limiting and glue reverb, will probably happen in Logic's final output channel strip.

Paolo


----------



## nas

I've been going with one instance per instrument, however, a single instrument / instance might have several Kontakt instruments i.e articulations within it. It suits my workflow and now with the vertical view of all instances in VEP 7 it corresponds nicely with my LPX tracks.

I just wish it was possible to create a folder in VEP 7 for several instances and switch that folder on or off as needed. I asked Paul at VSL about this but I guess its not how the folders work... you can't place a bunch of instances together inside a folder, just instruments/channels inside a single instance and put those in a folder.


----------



## ptram

nas said:


> I just wish it was possible to create a folder in VEP 7 for several instances


If I understand correctly, tabs corresponding to instances are a representation of separate programs. They appear in the same “console", but are separate processes.

Paolo


----------



## Dewdman42

As far as i'm concerned AU3 is tried and tested and working perfectly fine. The only thing that is a bit confusing is how to setup more then 16 tracks in LogicPro. Once you do it a few times you will see its not hard. I made that 10-instance template you can always start with that.. it has 1270 tracks, so just delete a bunch of them and you will have 4 sections in 4 instances and should work perfectly fine...


----------



## Dewdman42

nas said:


> I've been going with one instance per instrument, however, a single instrument / instance might have several Kontakt instruments i.e articulations within it. It suits my workflow and now with the vertical view of all instances in VEP 7 it corresponds nicely with my LPX tracks.
> 
> I just wish it was possible to create a folder in VEP 7 for several instances and switch that folder on or off as needed. I asked Paul at VSL about this but I guess its not how the folders work... you can't place a bunch of instances together inside a folder, just instruments/channels inside a single instance and put those in a folder.



correct. I don't know if they are separate running processes or not, but each VEP instance is like a running "server" on its own that is basically isolated from the other instances. That's why they can't share any busses or share any folders or share anything else really. they are like completely separate VEP servers, each instance, that just happen to be accessible through one application window.


----------



## EgM

Manaberry said:


> 200? How to do get that number? having one channel per instance? xD



One instance per instrument yeah, i.e. One instance for the entire VSL Appassionata violiins, Another instance for EW Hollywood Violins, etc


----------



## larry777

VEP Pro 7 is a Fantastic software, still no VST3 integration, any news on this?


----------



## IFM

larry777 said:


> VEP Pro 7 is a Fantastic software, still no VST3 integration, any news on this?


As far as I knew it has been VST3 compatible for a long time.


----------



## Akarin

larry777 said:


> VEP Pro 7 is a Fantastic software, still no VST3 integration, any news on this?



It has a VST3 plugin and it allows for things that you can't do with the VST2 version, like several different engines on one instance in Cubase.


----------



## chillbot

Got the email this morning, must admit I did not appreciated the tone of being "threatened" to upgrade to 7. At least that's how it came across to me.... upgrade now because we are cutting off your support to VePro 6! Thanks for that, good marketing.

I'm not really lacking for anything in 6, is there any reason I would upgrade? I don't use it as a plugin or in server mode, just in standalone mode.


----------



## lokotus

chillbot said:


> Got the email this morning, must admit I did not appreciated the tone of being "threatened" to upgrade to 7. At least that's how it came across to me.... upgrade now because we are cutting off your support to VePro 6! Thanks for that, good marketing.
> 
> I'm not really lacking for anything in 6, is there any reason I would upgrade? I don't use it as a plugin or in server mode, just in standalone mode.


the lack of support will force you to upgrade anyway, as soon as your hardware no longer works and you need to install a new software on a new computer. Better make the change now ...


----------



## Ben

IFM said:


> As far as I knew it has been VST3 compatible for a long time.





Akarin said:


> It has a VST3 plugin and it allows for things that you can't do with the VST2 version, like several different engines on one instance in Cubase.


I think @larry777 talks about VST3 plugin hosting support, which is still not included, but very high on the wishlist.


----------



## Hadrondrift

chillbot said:


> is there any reason I would upgrade?


I'm in the same boat. Not lacking of anything, not using VEP in server mode. Only upgrade reason would be the fear that - with some future Windows 10/MacOS changes - VEP 6 could stop working. And maybe you will not get iLok-licenses for VEP 6 when they abandon eLicenser, that's where another problem could arise.


----------



## Ben

chillbot said:


> Got the email this morning, must admit I did not appreciated the tone of being "threatened" to upgrade to 7. At least that's how it came across to me.... upgrade now because we are cutting off your support to VePro 6! Thanks for that, good marketing.
> 
> I'm not really lacking for anything in 6, is there any reason I would upgrade? I don't use it as a plugin or in server mode, just in standalone mode.


Hi chillbot, no threats or any other ill intend. We just want to communicate that we are going to drop the support of VEP6 before transitioning to iLok.
We decided to do so now while VEP7 is still on sale (and so is the upgrade), so you can decide if you want to upgrade now instead later at regular pricing.



lokotus said:


> the lack of support will force you to upgrade anyway, as soon as your hardware no longer works and you need to install a new software on a new computer. Better make the change now ...


VEP6 will not stop working - as long as your eLicenser works and your system is able to run the eLicenser and VEP6 software you will still be able to use it. We will still provide you with the requiered installation files.


----------



## Ben

Hadrondrift said:


> And maybe you will not get iLok-licenses for VEP 6 when they abandon eLicenser, that's where another problem could arise.


Exactly, VEP6 will not make the jump to iLok.


----------



## Hadrondrift

(We need a "Thanks for the info"-like, as I don't really like it, but understand )


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Ben said:


> We decided to do so now while VEP7 is still on sale (and so is the upgrade), so you can decide if you want to upgrade now instead later at regular pricing.


With all due respect, VSL should be offering much deeper discounts for the upgrade. This could be a pricey upgrade for those who require multiple licenses....especially for those who simply don't need the upgrade in the first place.


----------



## Ben

Jeremy Spencer said:


> With all due respect, VSL should be offering much deeper discounts for the upgrade. This could be a pricey upgrade for those who require multiple licenses....especially for those who simply don't need the upgrade in the first place.


Upgrades for additional licenses are on sale as well...


----------



## Alvaro PaivaB

Sorry VSL / @Ben, but I agree with @chillbot, your email this morning was not nice to receive.

To begin with, changing from offering 3 licenses to offer only 1 license is a major slap in the face to every independent / upcoming composer, probably your biggest market share.

Second, the upgrade discount is only 25% ?!?!
Not great reward to loyalty. Every other brand does 30% or more on a regular basis.

Third, we are talking about a $175 upgrade for ONE license, $250 for TWO licenses, and $325 for three licenses. This is without including the e-licenser(s) / iLok(s) price. That’s the money you pay for a full DAW, and certainly more expensive than any other upgrade, including expensive ones like Finale or Sibelius upgrades. Doesn’t make sense at all that the upgrade of a software I already paid for, cost more than a new DAW.

Fourth, as others pointed out, if you want users to try your Epic Orchestra, why not give out some sections of it for free?
Don’t include it in your marketing of VEP to justify an absurdly steep price.
It is not related to the use most of use give to VEP (a great and efficient host for Kontakt samples in a multi-platform environment), and, mind you, honestly I don’t know of anyone crazy about using Epic Orchestra instead of other libraries, at least here in LA.

Not sure what made you take these decisions against your customers, but if VSL/VEP has been losing market share, it could be a good idea you listen to us, instead of charging more for worse products.

Best,


----------



## Gabriel S.

Alvaro PaivaB said:


> Sorry VSL / @Ben, but I agree with @chillbot, your email this morning was not nice to receive.
> 
> To begin with, changing from offering 3 licenses to offer only 1 license is a major slap in the face to every independent / upcoming composer, probably your biggest market share.
> 
> Second, the upgrade discount is only 25% ?!?!
> Not great reward to loyalty. Every other brand does 30% or more on a regular basis.
> 
> Third, we are talking about a $175 upgrade for ONE license, $250 for TWO licenses, and $325 for three licenses. This is without including the e-licenser(s) / iLok(s) price. That’s the money you pay for a full DAW, and certainly more expensive than any other upgrade, including expensive ones like Finale or Sibelius upgrades. Doesn’t make sense at all that the upgrade of a software I already paid for, cost more than a new DAW.
> 
> Fourth, as others pointed out, if you want users to try your Epic Orchestra, why not give out some sections of it for free?
> Don’t include it in your marketing of VEP to justify an absurdly steep price.
> It is not related to the use most of use give to VEP (a great and efficient host for Kontakt samples in a multi-platform environment), and, mind you, honestly I don’t know of anyone crazy about using Epic Orchestra instead of other libraries, at least here in LA.
> 
> Not sure what made you take these decisions against your customers, but if VSL/VEP has been losing market share, it could be a good idea you listen to us, instead of charging more for worse products.
> 
> Best,


That's not the pricing for the upgrade. The upgrade costs 65 € and each additional license 45 €. So the full upgrade (3 licenses) would be 150 €


----------



## Ben

Alvaro PaivaB said:


> we are talking about a $175 upgrade for ONE license, $250 for TWO licenses, and $325 for three licenses.


No, the prices you have mentioned are not upgrade prices, but for new licenses.

Upgrade prices are € 65 for the first, € 45 for each additional license. -> Upgrading 3 VEP6 licenses cost you € 155 (in case you really need 3 licenses).

It puzzles me when some people are talking about how great and essential VEP is to their workflow, but are not willing to invest in it. VEP6 was released 5 years ago - and since then you could get every update for free - including support for new OS versions. 
I don't know if you got 5 years of updates for your DAW for free...



Alvaro PaivaB said:


> Fourth, as others pointed out, if you want users to try your Epic Orchestra, why not give out some sections of it for free?
> Don’t include it in your marketing of VEP to justify an absurdly steep price.


As already mentioned, the upgrade price is far from absurd. And the Epic Orchestra 2.0 is a bonus library you get with VEP7, you don't have to use it if you don't want to.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Ben said:


> I don't know if you got 5 years of updates for your DAW for free...


Logic


----------



## chillbot

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Logic


Cakewalk!


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## Ben

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Logic


Sure, you don't pay directly for it, you pay for the upgrade with each new device purchase


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## Nimrod7

Ben said:


> It puzzles me when some people are talking about how great and essential VEP is to their workflow, but are not willing to invest in it. VEP6 was released 5 years ago - and since then you could get every update for free - including support for new OS versions.


I have to agree on that. If we think about it there is no competition, however VSL is not taking advantage of that.
The upgrade pricing is quite generous, compared to DAWs that asking $100 or more per year, (e.g. Cubase) and it's a fraction of what a Library or a Slave costs. And there is an orchestra free with it.


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## Lukas

Ben said:


> It puzzles me when some people are talking about how great and essential VEP is to their workflow, but are not willing to invest in it. VEP6 was released 5 years ago - and since then you could get every update for free - including support for new OS versions.


+1


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## Jeremy Spencer

Ben said:


> Sure, you don't pay directly for it, you pay for the upgrade with each new device purchase


Sure, but I still have a 2013 MacBook Pro that still runs Logic Pro. That’s eight years without any upgrade costs.


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## larry777

Akarin said:


> It has a VST3 plugin and it allows for things that you can't do with the VST2 version, like several different engines on one instance in Cubase.





Ben said:


> I think @larry777 talks about VST3 plugin hosting support, which is still not included, but very high on the wishlist.


Yes IFM & Nico, I was talking about VST3 plugin hosting support as Ben is saying. Can we expect it any time soon? Again VEP is so great and would be even greater with that option.


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## Wunderhorn

I also think the update price is fair.
I am only curious why there aren't as many frequent stability updates happening anymore on VEP7 as they used to happen. On my machine VEP7 is crash-happy like never before.


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## PeterBaumann

I'm also on the fence about this as I'm quite happy (aside from bugs which crop up every now and then) with VEPro 6. I'll probably hold onto 6 as long as possible, and maybe upgrade when I eventually get a silicon Mac Pro or similar in the future which would only require 1 licence if I spec it with a decent quantity of RAM.

Also in the back of my mind is that VEPro 8 may be around the corner (VEPro 7 came out 2 years ago, and as per a previous post, VEPro 6 is 5 or so years old). It'd be frustrating to upgrade to 7 now for 8 to come out in a few months, especially when 6 is still functional.


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## NYC Composer

I was a little rocked by the email as well, but I hadn't realized it had been 5 years already! Anyway, I've been on VEP since the beginning and it allowed me to stretch the life of my 2008 Mac Pro all the way to 2019 by buying a Mac mini and networking them. Absolutely brilliant, reliable MIDI AND audio over one little CAT cord. I can't really complain about the update price either. I'll likely buy VEP7 plus an additional license while they're on sale, in case I want to go back to using the power of the Mini. You never know.

That said, I will put it all on ice until I'm forced to use it, which brings up an important question for me-do VEP 6 templates open in VEP 7 and connect perfectly with my Cubase 10.5 template?? 'cause re-doing my template from scratch would be as much fun as finding a nest of poisonous snakes in my bed or developing cancer of the rectum.


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## Ben

NYC Composer said:


> I was a little rocked by the email as well, but I hadn't realized it had been 5 years already! Anyway, I've been on VEP since the beginning and it allowed me to stretch the life of my 2008 Mac Pro all the way to 2019 by buying a Mac mini and networking them. Absolutely brilliant, reliable MIDI AND audio over one little CAT cord. I can't really complain about the update price either. I'll likely buy VEP7 plus an additional license while they're on sale, in case I want to go back to using the power of the Mini. You never know.
> 
> That said, I will put it all on ice until I'm forced to use it, which brings up an important question for me-do VEP 6 templates open in VEP 7 and connect perfectly with my Cubase 10.5 template?? 'cause re-doing my template from scratch would be as much fun as finding a nest of poisonous snakes in my bed or developing cancer of the rectum.


Your VEP6 projects should just work with VEP7 - simply run the VEP7 installer and work as usual. Just keep in mind that once you saved your VEP project in VEP7 you can't open it in VEP6 anymore, so make sure to make a backup of it - just in case.


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## NYC Composer

Thanks Ben, shall do....although if it doesn't work, I'll come looking for you....


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## JEPA

If I am allowed to add some sauce to this thread, *73 GB Epic Orchestra *(included with Vienna Ensemble Pro 7):


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## Craig Allen

How would someone describe the usability territory of the Epic Orchestra 2 with Special Edition Orchestra 1 & 2 libraries? Are they both borrowing from the same source material of VI sounds brought to the Synchron stage? Quite similar (much overlap), or quite different?


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## Craig Allen

Ben said:


> Hi chillbot, no threats or any other ill intend. We just want to communicate that we are going to drop the support of VEP6 before transitioning to iLok.


Ok, so iLok is confirmed. 
Is there any difference in licensing coming up (i.e. to be able to use 1 library on more than one machine)? I work on 3 computers, and I don't love carrying dongles around. (I much prefer the trust per user of 3+ activations per license (PA, Presonus), or 2 activations (most companies), or at the very least, the ability to cloud transfer (Waves), without having to physically move devices. I don't mind multiple iLoks, as long as I can have an activation assigned to each iLok.


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## Ben

Craig Allen said:


> Ok, so iLok is confirmed.
> Is there any difference in licensing coming up (i.e. to be able to use 1 library on more than one machine)? I work on 3 computers, and I don't love carrying dongles around. (I much prefer the trust per user of 3+ activations per license (PA, Presonus), or 2 activations (most companies), or at the very least, the ability to cloud transfer (Waves), without having to physically move devices. I don't mind multiple iLoks, as long as I can have an activation assigned to each iLok.


You will be able to use the iLok Cloud and/or move licenses to the cloud and back to an iLok.

More infos: https://vi-control.net/community/th...elicenser-to-ilok-ilok-key-ilok-cloud.106550/


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## Wunderhorn

Craig Allen said:


> Ok, so iLok is confirmed.


From the frying pan into the fire...


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## [email protected]

I really like working with VEPro, especially since I bought into MIR, _but_ there is one annoyance I hope to avoid:

When I want to plave an instrument in a MIR-Space, the colour of the channel in the mixer is automatically changed. Since I use mostly costum colours which I match to the instrument-UI or my Cubase template I would like to keep the assigned colour and not want to get the pre-defined VI-colours (brown for wood, gold for brass etc.) or the grey Cardioid-colours for all non-VSL-instruments.

Is there any trick to de-activate this "feature", @Ben ?


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## Ben

[email protected] said:


> Is there any trick to de-activate this "feature", @Ben ?


Yes, you can disable that (No. 3): 




__





Quickstart | VSL - Software Manuals







www.vsl.info


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## [email protected]

Hi, Ben, sorry for the lae reply! I just managed to try it out today and everything is fine now  Thanks a lot!


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## givemenoughrope

chillbot said:


> Got the email this morning, must admit I did not appreciated the tone of being "threatened" to upgrade to 7. At least that's how it came across to me.... upgrade now because we are cutting off your support to VePro 6! Thanks for that, good marketing.
> 
> I'm not really lacking for anything in 6, is there any reason I would upgrade? I don't use it as a plugin or in server mode, just in standalone mode.


I'm still bummed at them reducing licenses from 3 down to 1. Not ideal for my mac mini farm. It means if for some reason I have to upgrade (bc some future version of Kontakt requires OS whatever and VE Pro 6 only goes up to just before OS whatever) then I have to look at audiogridder or something.

Edit: or i guess i could just fork over the money...

(at what point is the tech fast enough and good enough to just not upgrade? I think I'm almost there...I think...)


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## Dewdman42

Just fork over the money. Vepro7 has improvements over v6.


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## muziksculp

Hi,

Now that Kontakt 6.6 is VST3, when can we expect VE-Pro 7 to host VST3 Instruments ? I think this is badly needed. 

Thanks.


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## Dewdman42

It’s a significant change and I personally don’t think they will add it to vepro7. Maybe v8; but I’m just speculating.

Why do you feel that you need to use the vst3 version of kontakt?


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## Rob Elliott

Also...do I have that right that VEPro7 hasn't seen an update since May of last year????


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## muziksculp

Rob Elliott said:


> Also...do I have that right that VEPro7 hasn't seen an update since May of last year????


I'm not sure, but it surely needs to support hosting VST3 format, it is fast becoming the standard format, I wonder what's taking them so long to add VST3 support to VE-Pro 7 ?


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## Wunderhorn

I would love to see better sandboxing and crash protection. Why does it always have to make the entire DAW crash if a Kontakt instance within VEP locks up...?


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## Rob Elliott

muziksculp said:


> I'm not sure, but it surely needs to support hosting VST3 format, it is fast becoming the standard format, I wonder what's taking them so long to add VST3 support to VE-Pro 7 ?


Couldn't agree more. My money is they are holding this 'arrow in their quiver' to enhance VEP 8 sales. That sounds negative but I don't mean it to be - just business - and I WANT them to STAY in this business as this is key software to me (Main + 3 satellites)


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## muziksculp

I'm not sure how many VE-Pro 7 users updated to Kontakt 6.6 VST3, and have built large VE-Pro 7 based templates using Kontakt Instruments, but can't use it after they updated to Kontakt 6.6 (VST3). 

This is a big issue. VSL needs to move fast.


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## Dewdman42

muziksculp said:


> I'm not sure, but it surely needs to support hosting VST3 format, it is fast becoming the standard format, I wonder what's taking them so long to add VST3 support to VE-Pro 7 ?



fast becoming? No I don't think so. VST3 has been around 10 years and has been, and continues to be a slow adoption. There are very few plugins which are exclusively VST3 or make use of VST3 specific features in some way that you just must use VST3. I nearly always choose the VST2 version of a particular plugin when I have the option between VST2 vs VST3. Furthermore VST3 has design flaws related to midi and specially related to articulation handling that are significant enough to avoid when doing orch mockup type work.

The only thing is that since Steinberg is exercising big brother power, new developers are unable to develop for VST2, so its true that at some point in the future VST3 will fundamentally take over everything, like it or not, but we are still a long ways off from that.

Which specific plugin are you needing to use VST3 inside VePro and why can't it work with VST2?

VSL has said numerous times, VST3 is in the plan and will happen eventually but no timeline.


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## Dewdman42

muziksculp said:


> I'm not sure how many VE-Pro 7 users updated to Kontakt 6.6 VST3, and have built large VE-Pro 7 based templates using Kontakt Instruments, but can't use it after they updated to Kontakt 6.6 (VST3).
> 
> This is a big issue. VSL needs to move fast.


6.6 comes in VST2 version also


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## Dewdman42

And as a comparison, I can't even get DP11 to validate pretty much any of my VST3 plugins, including Kontakt 6.6.VST3... FWIW. Just crashes DP over and over. That is likely DP's fault...not VST3's fault...but just shows you....VSL is not alone in dragging their feet to adopt VST3 and for the most part its not slowing anyone down (for now), because nearly always there is a perfectly well functioning VST2/AU version of whatever plugin you're wanting to use. Hardly anyone is actually using advanced VST3 features...except for maybe Steinberg in Cubase.


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## ptram

Dewdman42 said:


> Why do you feel that you need to use the vst3 version of kontakt?


VST Note Expression! Micro tuning, glissando, total control of a note blended with the note!

Paolo


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## Dewdman42

Please be more specific. Which specific plugins are you talking about that can only do those things in the VST3 version? if its Kontakt, then which specific libraries are making use of it?


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## ptram

Dewdman42 said:


> Please be more specific. Which specific plugins are you talking about that can only do those things in the VST3 version? if its Kontakt, then which specific libraries are making use of it?


VST Note Expression is only supported by VST3. Obviously, there aren't yet libraries that can use its features after a couple days from the release of the new Kontakt, but any library can now take advantage of them. Features only available in Halion, like the ones shown here, can not be implement in Kontakt:




Paolo


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## Dewdman42

alright...well VST3 and the notion of Note Expression has been around a decade already...it didn't just suddenly come out. Only a few daws, like Cubase and maybe S1 actually support Note Expression from the DAW side...and I don't personally know any plugins or sample libraries making use of it.

All the wiz bang features of VST3, which Steinberg has been touting for all that time, including NoteExpression and other things..has been around as a concept available for developers to make use of...since years already...and truthfully...hardly anyone is. In fact most VST3 plugins in existence are simply cross compiled from the same source as their VST2 version with exactly the same feature set.

DP11 just added its own flavor of Note Expression that doesn't require VST3 at all by the way, handled entirely by the DAW which means it works right now today with any plugin, VST2 or VST3. _Though it can't do the note-by-note expression as described in the above video. But Steinberg is about the only dev I know of taking advantage of that tech since 10 years that it has been available in VST3_

All I'm trying to say is...VePro will get there when it gets there and there is no urgency right now. VePro is not missing anything by not having VST3 support, other then people being annoyed by it. Yes, they know they have to add it and I'm confident they are working on it, but I don't understand the urgency right now.

if you can come up with a few specific plugin use cases where music can not be made with a certain plugin using VePro, but it can with say, S1 or Cubase using that plugin's VST3 tech in some way... let's hear about it...that kind of demand might motivate VSL to put more resources on it...but VSL has a small dev team with limited time, and lots of things they are working on. That just is what it is. They already said numerous times they plan on doing it at some point..but there is no timeline announced for it...and I can tell you that in order to add VST3 alone, with or without support for say, Note Expression...is not a trivial matter. Adding support for Note Expression and some of the other VST3 features (which some hosts don't even support), will be even more work. Its not at all a trivial matter. VST3 is a much more complicated API then VST2. I have no hope whatsoever of seeing VST3 hosting in VePro7. Maybe v8. And I don't care either...especially for instrument plugins.


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