# FM synths



## José Herring

I have FM8. I like FM synthesis but I don't really enjoy at all working with it. 

Got any suggestions for some good FM synthesis?


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## Dirtgrain

Aparillo is niche and different in GUI, but I dig it.
Tracktion is working on F'em, a new FM synth on the horizon. One can wonder if it will be a step up from others.
Just brainstorming (I use Ableton's Operator often, but it is only for Live).


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## José Herring

Dirtgrain said:


> Aparillo is niche and different in GUI, but I dig it.
> Tracktion is working on F'em, an new FM synth on the horizon. One can wonder if it will be a step up from others.
> Just brainstorming (I use Ableton's Operator often, but it is only for Live).


Listening at the first demo of Aparillo. OMG.


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## whinecellar

Aparillo is one of the coolest things I’ve played with in a while. Sooooo good. 

As for FM, I’ve been having a bit of a renaissance with it myself. Having grown up in the DX heyday, i’ve always loved those sounds - and lately I’ve discovered just how warm and organic it can be. I now have (12) real DX engines in my studio: a pair of original DX7s, a DX5, and a TX816. I’ve really come up with some incredible stuff, so I’m working on a sample-based product that’s built on all of that. It’s been a blast!


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## ptram

If it's the sounds that you are interested to, and not programming, UVI makes beautiful recordings of the original instruments. With all the graininess and depth of the original instruments.

Paolo


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## doctoremmet

Yes! FM is cool


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## doctoremmet

Uhe Bazille
Waves Flow Motion
Dexed 

I quite like Flow Motion’s interface and sound. It’s one that doesn’t get much attention but for $29.99 it is a killer synth.

EDITED:
Also, Arturia DX7 V. I quite like to have 6OP FM at my disposal and the user interface of this one is better than Dexed. It sounds very good and I prefer this one over FM8 as it is easier to program. And it is WAY easier to program than the original DX 

EDIT 2:
Not forgetting UVI Falcon 2. This one has 4OP FM on board as well, next to a load of extremely well designed other stuff. If you’re looking for a more modular approach...


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## doctoremmet




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## doctoremmet

whinecellar said:


> I now have (12) real DX engines in my studio: a pair of original DX7s, a DX5, and a TX816.


Nice! Here we have two DX7 mk 1, one DX7 II, a TX816 (only two TF1s though, so technically a TX812?), a TX7 and a TX802. And a broken DX9. So that would be 7? So much fun to have around and play. A DX5 is beautiful!


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## doctoremmet

Dirtgrain said:


> Aparillo is niche and different in GUI, but I dig it.


I don’t have this one. It sounds nice but also slightly gimmicky to my ears. As it is only 2 operator FM how good would this one be if you wanted to create sounds rather than weird arpeggiated stuff? Anyone use this for actual sound creation / “playable” sounds?

Edit april 2022: a while ago I bought Aparillo for $39. It is crazy good.


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## gamma-ut

Tracktion's Biotek 2. Each of the four voices in a patch can be a 4-op FM synth and you have a choice of waveforms. So you can build parallel FM patches, which can be useful for more complex sounds that don't use complex FM structures individually, or just combine them with the sample or granular voices for emphasis. It has an LFO sequencer which can be handy for underscore-type situations to get movement. It was on sale last week and will probably be on sale again (probably July 4 as IIRC Tracktion tend to do something for that).

Tone2 Nemesis is a simple 2-op structure but with a choice of FM styles so it's relatively easy to program and flip between variations to see whether they sound better.


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## gamma-ut

doctoremmet said:


> I don’t have this one. It sounds nice but also slightly gimmicky to my ears. As it is only 2 operator FM how good would this one be if you wanted to create sounds rather than weird arpeggiated stuff? Anyone use this for actual sound creation / “playable” sounds?



Aparillo's main feature is the way it uses swarms and clouds of sound particles. It's best to think of it as a granular but with FM granules rather than chunks of samples.


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## doctoremmet

gamma-ut said:


> Aparillo's main feature is the way it uses swarms and clouds of sound particles. It's best to think of it as a granular but with FM granules rather than chunks of samples.


Gotcha! Thx for the headsup


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## wst3

I've grown to appreciate, if not love, FM8. Programming any FM patch requires a small adjustment to my way of thinking. I started out on an ARP 2600, which allowed for a bit of frequency modulation, certainly not FM synthesis, but still gets the basic idea across. Still, it is a different way of thinking about sound.

I still have a TX7 (which gets very little use) and a pair of TX-81zs. I never owned a DX7 (which makes me somewhat unique, or downright odd), I did have a TX-802 for a while, it was cool.

And yet these days I use FM8 more than the hardware (laziness?), and I've tried the FM capabilities in some of the other soft-synths, but none of them have really grabbed me. While Alchemy was supported for Windows I did spend some time using it for FM, and Zebra2 has some serious FM chops. If all I want is a period accurate(ish) preset I usually use the Arturia emulation. DXED sounds great, but I did not get along with the UI. And so on...

FM is cool, for some of us the Yamaha approach is ingrained. making it difficult to appreciate other approaches - not unlike the shift from subtractive to FM I guess???

I am watching demos for Aparillo, it looks interesting.


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## Nick Batzdorf

I get pangs of nostalgia playing my DX7 sounds in FM8.

Specifically, there are two sounds I made back then that still stand up.


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## doctoremmet

DX7s still sound awesome and every time I fire up a hardware version I feel inspiration. The cheese factor of 99% of the old presets notwithstanding. Doesn’t Brian Eno still use his extensively?


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## method1

I think the DX range has a bit of that cheese stigma due to the presets they came with, but they're capable of way more than those damn marimba sounds 
I guess the not so user friendly button interface on the DX/TX range didn't help much either!
I have a DX11 that I love to bits.

This one is also pretty cool, based one a later FM chip designed by Yamaha for Sega, and it's on sale now.






RYM2612 Iconic FM Synthesizer | Inphonik







www.inphonik.com


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## funnybear

I wish Yamaha would release a rack version of it's Montage synth which I would immediately buy for its FM-X implementation (which can then used from your DAW with the Montage's direct USB link).

To me nothing sounds better in terms of FM.


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## doctoremmet

funnybear said:


> I wish Yamaha would release a rack version of it's Montage synth which I would immediately buy for its FM-X implementation (which can then used from your DAW with the Montage's direct USB link).
> 
> To me nothing sounds better in terms of FM.


Unfortunately I have never had the chance to play around with that particular 8OP FM engine, but demos of it sound good.

No members sporting an FS1R? Those babies are pretty expensive nowadays (overpriced imho) but I wouldn’t mind owning one...


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## Reid Rosefelt

You can't beat the free DEXED. Get it *HERE*

You can load up the zillions of free DX7 presets you can find on the internet into it, from sites like *THIS *and *THIS**. * There is even a single file you can download that gives you over 13,000 files. (It's in the PluginGuru video below)

You can do that with FM8 and Arturia's DX7 too, but they cost $$.

Anyway, Dexed is included in PluginGuru's UNIFY, which includes PG selected Dexed patches. John Lehmkuhl recently made this video about how to get the most out of it.


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## method1

Yes the Arturia can load dx patches


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## Reid Rosefelt

method1 said:


> Yes the Arturia can load dx patches


Thanks. Knowing this makes me want the Arturia more, as I like the GUI.


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## doctoremmet

TigerTheFrog said:


> Thanks. Knowing this makes me want the Arturia more, as I like the GUI.


Dexed is awesome! Arturia’s DX7 is its more beautiful cousin, and (for ME) its workflow beats Dexed’s one (better GUI). They both can load original patches, and they sound very good. Even some of the original DX7’s quirks have been modeled. So for those of us that actually want to program an FM synth, other than FM8, that GUI is of great importance I feel. Of course I have gotten those thousands of patches some time in the past, but there’s hardly any fun in that. Auditioning endless variations of those bells, epianos and marimbas gets boring REAL quick  Admittedly, it IS a great feature of Dexed (and Arturia).


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## Reid Rosefelt

doctoremmet said:


> Dexed is awesome! Arturia’s DX7 is its more beautiful cousin, and (for ME) its workflow beats Dexed’s one (better GUI). They both can load original patches, and they sound very good. Even some of the original DX7’s quirks have been modeled. So for those of us that actually want to program an FM synth, other than FM8, that GUI is of great importance I feel. Of course I have gotten those thousands of patches some time in the past, but there’s hardly any fun in that. Auditioning endless variations of those bells, epianos and marimbas gets boring REAL quick  Admittedly, it IS a great feature of Dexed (and Arturia).


That's true, but there were some patches that I bought back in those days, by Bo Tomlyn and others, that I would like to get. I played them every day for years. People like Bo were the PluginGurus/Unfinisheds of their day. Bo was a celebrity at trade shows, with that parrot on his shoulder.

One of the things that left me unimpressed with the Arturia DX7 is that the sounds that came with it did not inspire me with that old feeling or give me something new to be excited by.


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## doctoremmet

TigerTheFrog said:


> Thanks. Knowing this makes me want the Arturia more, as I like the GUI.


Dexed is awesome! Arturia’s DX7 is its more beautiful cousin, and its workflow beats Dexed’s one (better GUI). They bith can load original patches, and they sound very good. Even some of the original DX7m’s quirks have been modeled. So for those of us that actually want to program an FM synth, other than FM8, that GUI is of great inportance I feel. Of course I have gotten those thousands of patches some time in the past, but there’s hardly any fun in that. Auditioning endless variations of those bells, epianos and marimbas gets boring REAL quick  Admittedly, it IS a great feature of Dexed (and Arturia).


TigerTheFrog said:


> I played them every day for years. People like Bo were the PluginGurus/Unfinisheds of their day. Bo was a celebrity at trade shows, with that parrot on his shoulder.


Yes, I totally get that! Sorry if I came across slightly dismissive, I really wasn’t but my wording may suggest otherwise.

I have looked for ages for a couple of patches (SLX3 and SLX5 + Rhodes73) that I used to have on my first DX7. Can’t tell you how glad I was to be reunited with those after a LONG search...


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## doctoremmet

TigerTheFrog said:


> One of the things that left me unimpressed with the Arturia DX7 is that the sounds that came with it did not inspire me with that old feeling or give me something new to be excited by.


Some of the more arpeggiated sounds are actually pretty cool. But like I said, I mainly use to create patches from scratch


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## Dewdman42

Dexed is free. Arturia is my favorite for sure. FM8 is no slouch.

Image-line has a very good one, supposedly, I've never tried it.

Basically it depends somewhat on whether you are looking for FM programming generally, or something more like a DX7 clone. The best clones are Dexed, Arturia and FM8. After that there are quite a lot of plugins capable of FM synthesis in some form....either partially....or in a way that is not quite the same mental model as the DX7 and certainly would not be able to load DX7 patches...but still are using that form of synthesis with many similar characteristics..


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## José Herring

(edit: I apologize for the typos ahead of time as I don't ordinarily spend any time proof reading )

Cool. I read all the responses. 

Yeah, Dexed, the price is right on that and it will give me an opportunity to explore FM synthesis and it seems way more intuitive than FM8. 

The Sugarbytes one is amazing. I too do hear it as a bit gimmicky, but hey, I a compose for film and TV. Gimmick is bread and butter for that. 

I never owned a DX7 or any hardware FM as when I started in the 90's rompler was the game, so Dexed seems like a good way to get into classic FM synthesis. That was what I was hoping for when I bought FM8 back in 2008 or something but sadly after some initial enthusiasm it has remained dormant for years until yesterday when I gave it one more shot and lo and behold, I still didn't get on with it in spite of advancing a lot in my ability to program synths. 

I like the Tracktion synths. I actually like the whole Traktion system but Cubase is my main DAW and Reason my other main DAW and getting into yet another DAW world is too daunting for me. I'd rather just stick to Reason as my other main DAW. Though I like Live a lot too. And, now that Reason is a plugin I may get into rewire Live in the coming year after my sample purchases which would open me up to it's FM synth.

Reason has a 4op FM synth that I'm looking into as a way to get a hang of FM. Also, there's Zero Hybrid Synth which combines FM and Additive synthesis. It sounds amazing. Also, Reason as PX7 but it doesn't seem any different than Dexed which is free. So no need to really get that. 

I'm leaning heavily on Reason synths these days, but I still use and have all my VST synths as well. I didn't really fully think that UHE Zebra2 did FM all that well. I'll have to take another look at it as so far all I can really do is get the FM to self oscillate. Stacking OSC on top of each other didn't really seem to work that well. 

Bazille, yeah, my dear....Bazie.....I know that you're an amazing synth with amazing possibilities but sadly after demoing you for nearly 4 weeks when you were in Beta I hated you. I know that's harsh, and I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but we just didn't work. I'm sure it was me and not you as I know you have many, many satisfied users. :(

Blocks was an interesting experiment. Not sure I dig it that much for FM synthesis. I'm sure it's just me as I'm trying to just get a handle on it. But, it just seemed to be limited in the FM stuff it could do and I just likened it to Audio rate modulation much like I do with my hardware. More aggressive LFOie type sounds. 

In the end, I really think that the 4op one Reason Rack Extension and Dexed will get me started. Then I'll move into seeing why I can't get Zebra2 to FM better. Then Blamsoft's Zero and maybe PX7 to keep it in the Reason family. 

Thanks for all the suggestions. Also, getting the 12bit hardware FM 4op TX81Z by Yamaha seems like a tempting idea. Bit pricey considering it's used status, but there's really nothing that sounds like that stuff. I'm even contemplating going back to using a 12 bit Roland sampler for sound design, but oddly enough I got a Rack Extension in Reason that emulates 12bit Akai 950 and to my surprise it does it spot on. It's not even that bit crushy sound but really down samples well. I'm amazed and may just slap that on Dexed and see if I can get closer to the TX81Z.

This has been a really interesting discussion. Quite surprising really given that VI control was always more of a sample based community traditionally. Seems like it has expanded a lot to include all VI's and really I think that the soft synth subforum might get a little more attention if it was just under the sample forum. As sample discussions tend to be really limited any way. I mean seriously, how many pages and years can one keep discussing SCS vs. SSS and now BBCSO. Damn, ya boring. This is quite interesting. Bringing back the old synths, the one's that started home studio back in the '80's and 90's. I get giddy inside just like when I first started this trek.

I find myself a lot trying to mimick again what got my excited to begin with because I feel even though things like Serum or whatever may be the latest greatest, I will spend more time working what I love than the time spent working on something that may be great but I only just get along with and not really love--if that makes sense. I could force myself to get along with FM8 and read the 140pg manual but having tried that I realized that it wasn't leading me to love FM8 even more but quite the opposite. So now that I'm in my 50's I have the attitude of to hell with what ever comes out and really unless it's something I truly love working with, I don't have time for it any more.

Your passion is showing and I really appreciate it. It's what I like about music making and the studio and since we're heading into a year of covid 19 I got to make this home studio as cozy as possible.


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## sostenuto

New Serum v1.303 improve its FM Synthesis capabilties ?? May finally jump in years late ! 

Also checking this out ...



https://www.warpacademy.com/fm-synthesis-in-serum/


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## José Herring

sostenuto said:


> New Serum v1.303 improve its FM Synthesis capabilties ?? May finally jump in years late !
> 
> Also checking this out ...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.warpacademy.com/fm-synthesis-in-serum/


I think I just need a bit more on the basics before I tackle a beast like Serum for FM. Though I am looking at Serum hard.


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## sostenuto

josejherring said:


> I think I just need a bit more on the basics before I tackle a beast like Serum for FM. Though I am looking at Serum hard.



Omni2 long-timer and both Serum / Zebra 2 represent major refocus if purchased. No real clue (forever) as to which is better path for future.


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## José Herring

Zebra is cool. I'm finding that the way that problems were solved in 2008 or whenever it came out probably would be approached differently today. It's a wavetable synth but it doesn't use wavetables and it generates its own standard waveforms that you can morph between 16 or so wave snap shots. Just that alone was hard to understand when I first got it. 

The thing that Zebra has going for it is that it's this rare synth that there's no end to how good you can make it sound. After about 15 minutes of programming it starts to far out pace in sound quality every other synth I have. I find that with my other synths there's always some limit before things start sounding worse. Zebra has no limit. It just gets better and better and better and better and it's fun then one day you just realize that you just need to stop programming and make some music. It's got this infinite variety of things that it can do.

I knew I was in for it with Zebra when I was reading the manual and even the creator of the synth said it was fun trying to learn what Zerbra can do. I'm like whhhaaaaaattttt! He designed the damn thing and even he didn't exhaust its capabilities.


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## Dr.Quest

Aparillo is outstanding! Brilliant and fun to use. One of the best synth I've used for cool evolving sounds.
Highly recommended!


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## JPQ

I like Rob Papen Blue 2 but does many other things as well. actually my first softsynth is Blue.


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## tf-drone

Hi,
for the TX81Z stuff, there are the free Sonicbits Exakt Lite and Tonebytes FM-Four. Just found them in the depths of my spread sheet. Both look good, how they sound, I cannot yet say.


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## doctoremmet

Still waiting for Tracktion to release F ‘Em


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## whinecellar

Man, if you love classic DX sounds, I'm about 2 weeks away from releasing a whole library of that stuff for my MainStage/Logic "ecosystem" called BackStage Pass.

It's called "DX Dreams" and while I can't say much about it yet, I can tell you it's an FM playground that is WAY too much fun and blows past any traditional DX7-type library.

It's a large library, deep-sampled on the sounds that count (like those famous EPs and synth basses) - up to 12 velocity layers, all 88 keys, run through 1073 preamps, analog tape, AMS reverbs, etc. And I sampled various combinations of a single DX7, a hot-rodded DX5 with custom circuitry, and a loaded TX816.

I think it's going to shock a lot of people just how stunning (12) DX7s can sound when they're all layered together, panned apart, and slightly detuned - some of these sounds are absolutely massive, and with the included effects and custom TouchOSC controller, well, let's just say any fan of the 80s is going to have a blast with this


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## nordicguy

Out today OpZilla.


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## chimuelo

I used a TX816 for years. Best Bass and Metallic EPTones hands down.
Only thing that made me ditch it was the FS1r which I’m sure most here have played.
My FM8 sounds don’t get close to either.
Resampled FM ops using excessive layering is most interesting though.
On most of my software (that sounds great on IEMs/NFM’s) I still need to layer it for the type of powerful sounds I need.
Whinecellar, please share your work here when completed.


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## spektralisk

Native Instruments Kontour


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## vitocorleone123

I'll be going hardware for FM: Digitone.


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## vitocorleone123

vitocorleone123 said:


> I'll be going hardware for FM: Digitone.


Digitone is amazing. And terrifying.
FM is


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## tf-drone

Found another free one: Beatassist Kuma 508. A bit strange for FM - 5 oscillators, 5 alogrithms, 4 filters.


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## José Herring

spektralisk said:


> Native Instruments Kontour



Kind of lost track of this thread. Need to find ways to keep track of threads that I'm interested in. Maybe that's what the "Push notifications" that the forum keeps bugging me about is for. 

Didn't know Kontour was an FM synth. I'll look into it. Man I have Komplete and use about .1% of it 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm still in the market having not yet found that one that I really love working with. I'm hoping f'em changes that.


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## pondinthestream

I like waves flow motion -alwaays seem to get something useful from it. Also interested in OpZilla, and the wonderfully named F'em is eagerly awaited by me as well. Have fm8 but dont get on with the interface


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## doctoremmet

pondinthestream said:


> I like waves flow motion -alwaays seem to get something useful from it. Also interested in OpZilla, and the wonderfully named F'em is eagerly awaited by me as well. Have fm8 but dont get on with the interface


Yes. I like Flow Motion too. And recently got OpZilla. 4 operator FM actually may be the sweetspot for that whole concept 

I kind of like how Falcon2 does “just” 4 OP FM whereas MSoundFactory has 8 OP. F’ Em is going to be awesome no doubt. 8 OP FM and sample based oscillators in tandem. Conjures up images of old SY99 ads, back when I was totally unable to afford one haha!


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## heisenberg

Post nuclear indeed!


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## pondinthestream

doctoremmet said:


> Yes. I like Flow Motion too. And recently got OpZilla. 4 operator FM actually may be the sweetspot for that whole concept
> 
> I kind of like how Falcon2 does “just” 4 OP FM whereas MSoundFactory has 8 OP. F’ Em is going to be awesome no doubt. 8 OP FM and sample based oscillators in tandem. Conjures up images of old SY99 ads, back when I was totally unable to afford one haha!


Yeah, 4op gets me what I want pretty much. But of course if f em comes out at a good price it will be impossible to resist.


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## spektralisk

José Herring said:


> Kind of lost track of this thread. Need to find ways to keep track of threads that I'm interested in. Maybe that's what the "Push notifications" that the forum keeps bugging me about is for.
> 
> Didn't know Kontour was an FM synth. I'll look into it. Man I have Komplete and use about .1% of it
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm still in the market having not yet found that one that I really love working with. I'm hoping f'em changes that.


Definitely check it out. It's an amazing synth.


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## christianobermaier

Having owned a DX7 for like 25 years, explored all the nooks and crannies of the synth engine and the hardware, installed extra wheels and chorus PCBs that I ripped off a BOSS pedal, memory and function extension, the whole shebang, I can say that I'm a certified FM-head. But then, I also had the TX802 which I found incredibly cumbersome and laborious to work with. Sold that one soon.

Then came FM7, now FM8, so that's covered and then some.

Then came Arturia's Synclavier V, later with he sample update. NED licensed FM from Yamaha back then and went on to create the Phased Gong preset (the Beat It Gong...) which to this day no other synth (including Yamaha's) can replicate in all its glory. I'm in love. I can dig and prod for hours on end and get the craziest sounds and still only use Partial 1 of 12...


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## doctoremmet

My FS1R GAS has weirdly been acting up since this thread got bumped...


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## Solarsentinel

The onboard synth "Operator" in Ableton Live is quite easy to program for an FM synth, and the sound is good.


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## Mark Schmieder

Yep, I'm spoiled by the FS1r. I sold mine a number of years ago as it wasn't gig-friendly, and that mattered a lot to me at the time. For instance, you couldn't really set up performance splits or master lists. Best FM synth engine ever, and lousiest interface. If only they'd done a keyboard version, with a full interface in knobs and sliders!


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## doctoremmet

Maybe I will just get a Montage and dive into FM-X. I found out that 8 operator FM can be fun (MSoundFactory).

Also, what’s keeping Tracktion so long. Release F ‘Em already  The mod section looks identical to Biotek2. Cool!


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## whinecellar

I released the MainStage version of my passion project based on the DX7 about a week ago, and the Logic version should drop next week - it’s an absolute blast to play these sounds the way they were meant to be heard, with the processing that made them sound so good


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## shawnsingh

I totally believe 8-op could be great, but I don't have enough FM experience to know what situations that more ops would help. Any sound design example where many ops help?

I've been enjoying falcon FM. I wish it were possible to have something like an additive oscillator designer for each operator, but I also don't mind it's simplicity. The very special part about FM in falcon is the outside context - layering, modulation, and fx options to make really good use of all those additional harmonics and inharmonics that FM generates. So with that description of what I like, I'm wondering does anyone feel I'm missing some interesting sound generation features from other FM synths? Or is it mainly a preference of workflow?


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## gamma-ut

shawnsingh said:


> I totally believe 8-op could be great, but I don't have enough FM experience to know what situations that more ops would help. Any sound design example where many ops help?


Typically, once you go above four the main advantage is you have more flexibility for using oscillators or stacks of them additively (things like organ sounds). Or for transient + sustain sounds where you need two or more unrelated oscillator stacks.


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## doctoremmet

shawnsingh said:


> I've been enjoying falcon FM. I wish it were possible to have something like an additive oscillator designer for each operator, but I also don't mind it's simplicity


Honestly? I have Falcon2 and its FM implementation is awesome and just fine really. I grew up owning the DX7 so 6OP is what I’m used to, but sonically you can do most things with Ableton Operator, Opzilla, Falcon2 or any other 4OP synth.

So why are 8 operators cool? More modulation routings? Practically, you get in noise terrirory REAL quick. So maybe the honest answer is: spec wars baby!

Now F’ Em mainly has my interest because of its awesome multi-layered architecture and the modulation matrix which is like the one in Biotek2 and is just great from a workflow perspective (for me at least). But again... FM as implemented in Falcon2 is all one needs really. I have never actually thought: I wish Falcon2 had more operators...


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## José Herring

Working with Reason's Algo synth today. It's a great synth. Really fun and intuitive and sounds great. Still looking forward to F'em and also will check out MSoundfactory but boy it's taking me a while to get to know that synth.


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## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> Working with Reason's Algo synth today. It's a great synth. Really fun and intuitive and sounds great. Still looking forward to F'em and also will check out MSoundfactory but boy it's taking me a while to get to know that synth.


Algo looks very cool José! I have been playing with Biotek2 lately, and its modulation options are insane. F ‘Em has the same UI, more or less, so should be fun.

MSF: it is insane. I mainly got it because of an MPowerSynth mp3 you sent me once. It sounds very good and once you get the hang of it, the UI kind of grows on you. Also, having watched the majority of @Chandler ‘s videos really helped. Get it out on a lazy sunday afternoon and fool around a bit, you’ll love it!


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## Summa

José Herring said:


> I have FM8. I like FM synthesis but I don't really enjoy at all working with it.
> 
> Got any suggestions for some good FM synthesis?


I tend to like FM8, even did some of the factory sounds.

Surge (freeware) might be an option, mixing FM with subtractive synthesis and "bendable" wavetables. It can do 3 Operator FM within one Oscillators and additionally is able to FMing 3 Oscillators (makes up to 9 Operators if needed) with 3 different connection/"algorithms".



doctoremmet said:


> Also, what’s keeping Tracktion so long. Release F ‘Em already  The mod section looks identical to Biotek2. Cool!


Looks nice, multi segment envelopes I guess/hope


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## Lode_Runner

whinecellar said:


> I released the MainStage version of my passion project based on the DX7 about a week ago, and the Logic version should drop next week - it’s an absolute blast to play these sounds the way they were meant to be heard, with the processing that made them sound so good



Sounds amazing. Really looking forward to the Kontakt version. I hope you can find a way to make it sound as good for PC users who don't have Mainstage.


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## tf-drone

The new Xils KaoX will have an 8-OP-FM part, among others.


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## shawnsingh

So what's everyone's specfic reason that they are into FM?
- recreating the legendary retro sounds
- being able to emulate a more modeling-like approach to synthesis
- the idea of playing around with the harmonics and complicated tone generation
- to advocate for the extremely worthy underdog versus subtractive synthesis
- potential for modulating interesting parameters within a sound
- other?
- all the above?


----------



## Summa

Create Sounds with more or less radical timbre changes using controller/macros. Other than that I like harsh, metallic sounds  I don't find FM to be complicated, it's my playground.


----------



## Summa

tf-drone said:


> The new Xils KaoX will have an 8-OP-FM part, among others.


Could be nice, found a video.



https://www.xils-lab.com/audiosample/KaoX/video/KaoX_Trailer.mp4


----------



## whinecellar

Lode_Runner said:


> Sounds amazing. Really looking forward to the Kontakt version. I hope you can find a way to make it sound as good for PC users who don't have Mainstage.


Sadly, all my attempts at porting to Kontakt have been miserable failures. In short, it just doesn’t sound as good; the Logic Sampler is superb at reproducing those particular sounds, and its filter & envelopes are a crucial part of that.

There’s another cross-platform format in beta right now from a major developer that could solve all of that though, so we’ll see!


----------



## doctoremmet

whinecellar said:


> Sadly, all my attempts at porting to Kontakt have been miserable failures. In short, it just doesn’t sound as good; the Logic Sampler is superb at reproducing those particular sounds, and its filter & envelopes are a crucial part of that.
> 
> There’s another cross-platform format in beta right now from a major developer that could solve all of that though, so we’ll see!


Just port them to Falcon2 or Equator2 and I’m good


----------



## Summa

The radical sound changes I mentioned tend to get lost when using samples, but that shouldn't be that important for 80s remakes. 
I started making music 1984, with a friend: We used his brothers Poly 800, my DJ Mixer and two tape recorder. So I'm more into spirit of the 80s, experimenting with new and different sounds and don't want to bring back the 80s, since I already had my Italo Disco, Depeche Mode and Art of Noise moments back than - fighting with CZ-1, TX81z and MT32 to get close to the sounds I liked


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

FM is a synthesis technique, and as such, can be used in any decade.


----------



## whinecellar

doctoremmet said:


> Just port them to Falcon2 or Equator2 and I’m good


The platform I mentioned will be a revolutionary step forward for all of us, from what I gather... hope to be able to share more soon!


----------



## José Herring

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> FM is a synthesis technique, and as such, can be used in any decade.


Yeah!


----------



## Summa

Might be interesting:


Algoritm FM Synthesizer Livestream​


----------



## chimuelo

whinecellar said:


> I released the MainStage version of my passion project based on the DX7 about a week ago, and the Logic version should drop next week - it’s an absolute blast to play these sounds the way they were meant to be heard, with the processing that made them sound so good



Slick demo, matching synths to sounds/songs is the best way to get the point across.

Always thought the keyboard part/sound from Simply Red/Don't Forget About Me, was a PPG. Learn something new everyday.


----------



## Marko Zirkovich

chimuelo said:


> Slick demo, matching synths to sounds/songs is the best way to get the point across.
> 
> Always thought the keyboard part/sound from Simply Red/Don't Forget About Me, was a PPG. Learn something new everyday.


There's even more to learn: the song "Don't You (Forget About Me)" is from the Simple Minds, not Simply Red.


----------



## whinecellar

chimuelo said:


> Slick demo, matching synths to sounds/songs is the best way to get the point across.
> 
> Always thought the keyboard part/sound from Simply Red/Don't Forget About Me, was a PPG. Learn something new everyday.


Thanks friend. Unfortunately not every song was a total match to the original (I didn’t have an OBXA handy, for example!) but the sounds heard were recreated from the synths shown


----------



## Russell Anderson

Surprised no one has mentioned Phase Plant. I wonder why? IMO it's kind of the king of FM softsynths right now... and the UI is something I think sets an entirely new standard for ease of use.



José Herring said:


> The thing that Zebra has going for it is that it's this rare synth that there's no end to how good you can make it sound. After about 15 minutes of programming it starts to far out pace in sound quality every other synth I have. I find that with my other synths there's always some limit before things start sounding worse. Zebra has no limit.


Howard Scarr makes it seem infinitely capable like you're mentioning; practically all I've done with it unfortunately is leaf through presets on the demo as I've not taken the time to explore the long list of oscillator effects and start fooling around. But the presets are amazing, it's certainly something else.

I sort of feel the same way about MSF; both MSF and Zebra have some kind of slant towards physical modelling, and being quite deep. It's nice having someone around who actually uses MSF at least on occasion, @doctoremmet - if I had the money I'd buy both in a heartbeat; and if I had the time presently, I'd wade in. At a certain point, though (mostly with regard to MSF's ridiculous depth), I may as well just learn C++ 

If either of you have anything to share that you've made, or something you've heard made with each that you find particularly amazing, I'd welcome the opportunity to listen to it. I've had eyes on both Zebra and MSoundFactory for a while now, but with what I could do with them at the moment they'd just be expensive toys.



whinecellar said:


> The platform I mentioned will be a revolutionary step forward for all of us, from what I gather... hope to be able to share more soon!


It wouldn't happen to be Best Service Engine would it? I read somewhere recently that that was an up-and-coming cross-platform project...


----------



## whinecellar

Russell Anderson said:


> It wouldn't happen to be Best Service Engine would it? I read somewhere recently that that was an up-and-coming cross-platform project...


Nope! I'm not sure if I'm at liberty to say, but what I've heard sounds like a game changer


----------



## José Herring

Russell Anderson said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned Phase Plant. I wonder why? IMO it's kind of the king of FM softsynths right now... and the UI is something I think sets an entirely new standard for ease of use.
> 
> 
> Howard Scarr makes it seem infinitely capable like you're mentioning; practically all I've done with it unfortunately is leaf through presets on the demo as I've not taken the time to explore the long list of oscillator effects and start fooling around. But the presets are amazing, it's certainly something else.
> 
> I sort of feel the same way about MSF; both MSF and Zebra have some kind of slant towards physical modelling, and being quite deep. It's nice having someone around who actually uses MSF at least on occasion, @doctoremmet - if I had the money I'd buy both in a heartbeat; and if I had the time presently, I'd wade in. At a certain point, though (mostly with regard to MSF's ridiculous depth), I may as well just learn C++
> 
> If either of you have anything to share that you've made, or something you've heard made with each that you find particularly amazing, I'd welcome the opportunity to listen to it. I've had eyes on both Zebra and MSoundFactory for a while now, but with what I could do with them at the moment they'd just be expensive toys.
> 
> 
> It wouldn't happen to be Best Service Engine would it? I read somewhere recently that that was an up-and-coming cross-platform project...


Zebra is pretty easy to learn. Took me about a day with Uhr's manual and maybe I watched one video. It isn't a hard synth just a clever one. 

MSF, I'm baffled. Haven't found a manual. I'm sure there is one but I haven't found it. The videos are more confusing than just trying to figure it out myself. 

I know that @doctoremmet has a better handle on it than I do. 

I was able to place one cue in a film with it but I wouldn't really call it a stellar piece of music. In the end, I just used the presets in the cue. It does have a unique sound that makes everything sound cool no matter how simple the music.


----------



## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> Haven't found a manual. I'm sure there is one but I haven't found it.


The Melda documentation.... mmmm.... is flawed  - basically just F1 help texts reassembled in a PDF. And Vojtech is developing new features faster than the speed of sound too.

That being said... it’s a matter of spending one lazy sunday afternoon with the program and you’re a whole lot wiser already. The FM part of MSF is pretty deep though...


----------



## José Herring

whinecellar said:


> Nope! I'm not sure if I'm at liberty to say, but what I've heard sounds like a game changer


If you didn't sign an NDA then it's fair game. Is this sampler from a new developer?

Also, have you considered Hise?


----------



## whinecellar

José Herring said:


> If you didn't sign an NDA then it's fair game. Is this sampler from a new developer?
> 
> Also, have you considered Hise?


Just trying to be respectful regardless- it’s not my news to share. Top notch developer though who we all know and love... I imagine it will be public sooner than later!


----------



## tf-drone

Hi,

just found Aurora FM. Any thoughts so far?


----------



## Markrs

tf-drone said:


> Hi,
> 
> just found Aurora FM. Any thoughts so far?


That's a new one on me


----------



## Summa

I had a look at the demo, missed to many parameters I tend to use often like fixed Frequency (at least almost) down to 0Hz or feedback or scalable waveforms for every Operator, but its pretty affordable. So I think it depends what you're after.


----------



## muziksculp

José Herring said:


> I have FM8. I like FM synthesis but I don't really enjoy at all working with it.
> 
> Got any suggestions for some good FM synthesis?


Most likely not what you are expecting, but the *Yamaha Montage* has the FMX Engine and it is freaking awesome. I wouldn't expect any VST FM Synth to be on that level. I have the Yamaha Montage 7 Keyboard, and love it for everything it offers, including the FMX engine sounds, It's also my main Controller Keyboard in my Studio.

I never liked NI's FM8, and no other VST FM synth for that matter.

Used to have a DX7IIFD, and TX802 Synths years ago.


----------



## Russell Anderson

muziksculp said:


> I wouldn't expect any VST FM Synth to be on that level... I never liked NI's FM8, and no other VST FM synth for that matter.


----------



## muziksculp

Russell Anderson said:


>


Not that I need an FM Synth  , but I haven't heard about this one.

Now, I'm curious about *Phase Plant*. 

Do you like it better than other FM-VST Synths ? 

Thanks.


----------



## YaniDee

Don't know if this was mentioned..really well done (as their other synths..)









Plogue | chipsynth PortaFM


chipsynth PortaFM bit-accurately emulates a vintage two operator FM synth with some added features




www.plogue.com


----------



## Summa

muziksculp said:


> Most likely not what you are expecting, but the *Yamaha Montage* has the FMX Engine and it is freaking awesome.


Yep, Yamaha tends to know how FM should sound, interpolation on FM parameter changes could be a bit smoother, but on the other hand almost everything can be assigned to change multiple Parameters at once. 




muziksculp said:


> Used to have a DX7IIFD, and TX802 Synths years ago.


Old digital Synths probably are the biggest part of my HW-Synth setup, I bought a few of them when they were new like the TX81z and FS1R and a couple of them used in the 00s, when everyone started to use VSTis and old HW got pretty affordable.


----------



## gamma-ut

Summa said:


> Yep, Yamaha tends to know how FM should sound


Which is slightly ironic given that the main algorithm used by Yamaha is phase rather than frequency based.


----------



## Summa

gamma-ut said:


> Which is slightly ironic given that the main algorithm used by Yamaha is phase rather than frequency based.


I know, but calling it phase modulation might be a bit confusing for ppl. who aren't diving that deep into the rabbits whole. But knowing the difference tends to help me picturing what happens to the waveforms (clinching/expanding wise) on certain parameter combinations.


----------



## Russell Anderson

muziksculp said:


> Not that I need an FM Synth  , but I haven't heard about this one.
> 
> Now, I'm curious about *Phase Plant*.
> 
> Do you like it better than other FM-VST Synths ?
> 
> Thanks.


I can tell you it's the only one I really use. Pure synthesis is... good, sometimes, but I tend to stick to additive and granular for most of my stuff unless I'm going for a retro vibe. And in the process of looking for a nice retro softsynth besides the Knifonium I bought, I actually ended up going with Phase Plant because the workflow was so good and the depth was so insane, I was confident I could get the cool retro sounds I was after but also have the whole insane playground available for anything else I could think of. So yes... personally I do like it better than other FM vsts, and I would wager it's probably the deepest (having amplitude modulation, phase modulation, and linear & exponential frequency modulation. 3 optionally polyphonic effects lanes and the ability to nest multi-lane/multiband plugins inside of each other in each lane with any number of instances of 30+ effects available... 32 generator slots for oscs/output nodes/filters + distortion units that act polyphonically directly on the oscillators before even hitting the effects section...)

Plus it even has sampler and wavetable oscillators built into it as well (and they're great, and granular is coming soonish, confirmed), and like 15 different unison modes, and yeah. It kind of feels like you can do anything, it's worth the demo + a few months of testing-the-waters $10/mo sub. 12 non-consecutive months of subscription also gets you a $100 voucher. Pretty cool.


----------



## Summa

Russell Anderson said:


> I can tell you it's the only one I really use. Pure synthesis is... good, sometimes, but I tend to stick to additive and granular for most of my stuff unless I'm going for a retro vibe.



For FM it should have some type of FM-Matrix, combined and not segmented to several modules, since this makes (at least to me) creating FM-Sounds alot easier. I kind of missed that within the explanatory videos.


----------



## lychee

YaniDee said:


> Don't know if this was mentioned..really well done (as their other synths..)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plogue | chipsynth PortaFM
> 
> 
> chipsynth PortaFM bit-accurately emulates a vintage two operator FM synth with some added features
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.plogue.com


Plogue also has Chipsynth MD, a Megadrive (Genesis) soundchip emulator which is an FM synth, modular what's more:


----------



## muziksculp

Summa said:


> For FM it should have some type of FM-Matrix, combined and not segmented to several modules, since this makes (at least to me) creating FM-Sounds alot easier. I kind of missed that within the explanatory videos.


I agree. Something like a Carrier - Modulator Table, with feedback. that FM Synths usually have. But Phase Plant is more of a general semi-modular synth, and not a dedicated FM synth.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Summa said:


> For FM it should have some type of FM-Matrix, combined and not segmented to several modules, since this makes (at least to me) creating FM-Sounds alot easier. I kind of missed that within the explanatory videos.


Perhaps it may get one someday, but personally I've found the layout of Phase Plant to be a lot more inviting (probably familiarity); I always found normal modulation matrices to be daunting enough to mostly avoid them (or maybe it's that Sytrus has one, but the OSC section is a little arcane with the couple of shaping tools and the tabs upon tabs upon tabs-based workflow... I've opened up to it more since using Phase Plant though.)

And @muziksculp, I'd say Phase Plant is fundamentally an FM synth. Even wavetable and sampler oscillators (and noise oscillators), distortion and filter outputs can all be used as both carriers and modulators for all of the audio-rate modulation you can do in it. And you can also do osc1->osc1 feedback modulation, or feedback modulation from the filter/distortion attached to the osc. FM is pretty much the core, it just doesn't have a matrix and yes, there's certainly a lot else going on...


----------



## Pier

It's just a technical curiosity, but here's an FM synth that runs on the browser:









WebAssembly-Powered FM Synthesizer


An 8-operator, polyphonic FM synthesizer running completely in the web browser via Rust compiled to WebAssembly with SIMD acceleration. A demo from the larger web synth platform I'm building.



notes.ameo.design


----------



## Solarsentinel

Have you tried the hardware side José? The Korg Op6 is pretty fun to use and sound really good. and the budget is not too high.


----------



## muziksculp

*XiLS-Lab* has a new FM Synth : *KaoX*

I'm not impressed by what I hear in the demos, but thought it's worth posting here. 

https://www.xils-lab.com/products/kaox-p-168.html


----------



## whinecellar

Man, for all the virtual options and new plugins (many of which are great!) - there’s something pretty stellar about firing up an old TX816 with all 8 modules panned apart and slightly detuned. Yamaha really made magic here, and it plays like an *instrument*. So good!


----------



## doctoremmet

whinecellar said:


> Man, for all the virtual options and new plugins (many of which are great!) - there’s something pretty stellar about firing up an old TX816 with all 8 modules panned apart and slightly detuned. Yamaha really made magic here, and it plays like an *instrument*. So good!








Spot the TX “2”16 (only two TF1s) - I bet it’s 25% as good


----------



## sndmarks

I am still kicking myself for letting my TX816 go. Just didn't want to deal with another transformer issue once the replacements became unavailable


----------



## whinecellar

sndmarks said:


> I am still kicking myself for letting my TX816 go. Just didn't want to deal with another transformer issue once the replacements became unavailable


Yeah, I’ve been contemplating grabbing a spare power supply since I see them all the time. Just had all my batteries replaced too. It also makes a nice space heater 😁


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> *XiLS-Lab* has a new FM Synth : *KaoX*
> 
> I'm not impressed by what I hear in the demos, but thought it's worth posting here.
> 
> https://www.xils-lab.com/products/kaox-p-168.html



The basic sound does seem to have a real nice digital FM sheen to it. Nothing Arturia’s DX7 can’t replicate, but still not half bad. The sheer historical backstory of the instrument this emulates sort of indices a slight GAS in me... 

(help!)


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> The basic sound does seem to have a real nice digital FM sheen to it. Nothing Arturia’s DX7 can’t replicate, but still not half bad. The sheer historical backstory of the instrument this emulates sort of indices a slight GAS in me...
> 
> (help!)


Well, non of the currently posted demos has generated any GAS in me. 

I also find the GUI on the ugly side, and kind of too busy to look at. Oh.. I also don't think the Synth it is emulating was very pretty either. 

On a serious note, I might just download the demo, and give it a spin, although I have too many VST Synths already, but I'm a fan of FM synthesis, so I might make an exception, and test this one when I have the time.


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> Well, non of the currently posted demos has generated any GAS in me.
> 
> I also find the GUI on the ugly side, and kind of too busy to look at. Oh.. I also don't think the Synth it is emulating was very pretty either.
> 
> On a serious note, I might just download the demo, and give it a spin, although I have too many VST Synths already, but I'm a fan of FM synthesis, so I might make an exception, and test this one when I have the time.


I may do the same. While I’m waiting for Tracktion’s F ‘Em. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting,

By the way, while waiting I have been playing and programming their Biotek2 - which can do FM with all waveforms, and is a modulation monster. A monster synth, that does sound better than this Xils one I guess.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> While I’m waiting for Tracktion’s F ‘Em.


I don't know much about this one. What's so special about it ? is it a VST Synth, or made for Tracktion only synth ?



doctoremmet said:


> Biotek2 - which can do FM with all waveforms, and is a modulation monster. A monster synth, that does sound better than this Xils one I guess.


Cool, I will check it out. 

Thanks. Dr. Emmet.


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> I don't know much about this one. What's so special about it ? is it a VST Synth, or made for Tracktion only synth ?
> 
> 
> Cool, I will check it out.
> 
> Thanks. Dr. Emmet.


F ‘Em (like Biotek 2) is a Wolfram Franke creation, and a regular VST. It offers 8OP FM, alongside 3 “sample based” oscillators, and shares the UI design with Biotek in terms of mod matrix. So a souped up DX7, or maybe more accurately put: a spiritual SY99 successor. Not many new things under the sun. But I bet it sounds good. Plus: the name.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @doctoremmet ,

I'm super impressed with your recommendation for an FM Synth.

*The Waves** : Flow Motion* FM Synth.

It's a wonderful FM synth, and once one gets used to the GUI, and features, it is a very versatile, and fun to program FM synth. At $29.99 I couldn't have found anything as good as this synth, I also highly recommend it to those looking for a very good FM Synth.

So a Big THANKS YOU again. 

I will wait to see what F 'EM offers when it is released, I'm guessing you will let us know on VI-C when that happens , I will also check the Biotek2 FM Synths.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Markrs

muziksculp said:


> *The Waves** : Flow Motion* FM Synth.


Looks really nice, as waves always have sales so I will hold off for now. Also I have too many synths, especially since a whole load of one's previously for sale have now been given away, so I have those to explore as well.






OceanSwift synths now free


From discuss.cakewalk.com deals. Doug Rintoul Hey amigooooos! We decided to make ALL the products on Ocean Swift Synthesis FREE for everyone to enjoy! These were a labor of love and our babies, but since Yaron joined NATIVE INSTRUMENTS and Fernando started his company Sounds2Inspire we had...




vi-control.net


----------



## doctoremmet

@muziksculp My pleasure. Honestly, Flow Motion is one my favourite synths and one of the coolest little FM ones out there. 4OP FM really is the sweet spot. I don’t think they ever sell it below $29.99 but of course you could grab a couple of other things and get it for free if that’s worth it.


----------



## doctoremmet

This patch switching feature is cool. I wish more synths had this:


----------



## doctoremmet

So... Xils Lab Kaox is off the table for me, having tested it for a brief moment. Not to knock on it - it is a quality product. But its options do not bring me anything new. 

It basically made me fire up Flow Motion (as said, awesome presets), which I interpreted as a strong signal haha. Afterwards, I played with U-he Bazille. And boy.... such depth. I must have brought that one up in this thread at some point. But I have a bunch of presets by Sound Author that are just fantastic.

This video is a joy to watch and kind of shows my point.


----------



## shawnsingh

Bazille is on my short list of synths to buy next. Actually it's the only remaining soft synth on my "definitely buy" short list.


----------



## doctoremmet

shawnsingh said:


> Bazille is on my short list of synths to buy next. Actually it's the only remaining soft synth on my "definitely buy" short list.


It has a great sound. And a pretty steep learning curve. But Muziksculpt has just pointed me to a course website full of tutorials and I found a Bazille one, so I’m golden


----------



## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> It has a great sound. And a pretty steep learning curve. But Muziksculpt has just pointed me to a course website full of tutorials and I found a Bazille one, so I’m golden


@doctoremmet 

Could you please tell us what is the synth tutorial website you mentioned,do you have a link?
Thanks


----------



## doctoremmet

kgdrum said:


> @doctoremmet
> 
> Could you please tell us what is the synth tutorial website you mentioned,do you have a link?
> Thanks








u-he Bazille Explained® - Groove3.com Video Tutorial


Scottie Dugan returns, this time covering the modular virtual synth Bazille, by the synth gurus at u-he! This series covers everything including sound design.




www.groove3.com


----------



## tmhuud

whinecellar said:


> Man, for all the virtual options and new plugins (many of which are great!) - there’s something pretty stellar about firing up an old TX816 with all 8 modules panned apart and slightly detuned. Yamaha really made magic here, and it plays like an *instrument*. So good!


No kidding, eh Jim. The TX816 sure is magical. I had 4 TX81Z's at one point. Oh, the days. Love seeing you still getting use out of your AMT and Unitor as well!


----------



## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> u-he Bazille Explained® - Groove3.com Video Tutorial
> 
> 
> Scottie Dugan returns, this time covering the modular virtual synth Bazille, by the synth gurus at u-he! This series covers everything including sound design.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.groove3.com


Is there any product Groove3 doesn’t have a tutorial for? lol 
I have a subscription but I really don’t use it enough,Groove3 is a great resource.
Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## whinecellar

tmhuud said:


> No kidding, eh Jim. The TX816 sure is magical. I had 4 TX81Z's at one point. Oh, the days. Love seeing you still getting use out of your AMT and Unitor as well!


Yes indeed - I dread the day those things don’t work anymore!


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Anyone using the *Tone2 Nemesys* FM Synth ? Opinions about it ? 

https://www.tone2.com/nemesis.html

Thanks.


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anyone using the *Tone2 Nemesys* FM Synth ? Opinions about it ?
> 
> https://www.tone2.com/nemesis.html
> 
> Thanks.


I have looked into it on numerous occasions -hey, it’s FM haha- and got the impression that the developer is not actively developing this particular synth any more. I may be wrong about that and don’t want to discredit him in any way.

The demos as well as the manual (that came across a bit over-the-top in terms of claims about unique FM algo’s on the verge of bragging) ultimately did not convince me. But again, those are pretty superficial judgments, not based on hands-on experiences. So take that with two grains of salt.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> I have looked into it on numerous occasions -hey, it’s FM haha- and got the impression that the developer is not actively developing this particular synth any more. I may be wrong about that and don’t want to discredit him in any way.
> 
> The demos as well as the manual (that came across a bit over-the-top in terms of claims about unique FM algo’s on the verge of bragging) ultimately did not convince me. But again, those are pretty superficial judgments, not based on hands-on experiences. So take that with two grains of salt.


Hi @doctoremmet ,

Thanks for the feedback. 

Yes, this is an older synth by Tone2, I don't hear much about it, so it doesn't seem to be very popular. I know about it for quite sometime, but didn't bother getting it, I'm also not sure if they are actively updating it, or have plans to upgrade it in the future. 

The other Synth I'm looking into is Vital, I think it is quite fascinating what it can do, and they have a free version as well. I'm trying to evaluate how good is Vital compared to Phase Plant. 

It would be interesting to read your opinion on *Vital* vs *Phase Plant* ? 

Cheers & Have a Great Weekend,

Muziksculp


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> It would be interesting to read your opinion on *Vital* vs *Phase Plant* ?


Maybe check the current Phase Plant thread. Which has sort of evolved into PP versus Pigments v3 haha. 

I can’t say a lot of sensible things about either, since I have never used Phase Plant and don’t know a lot about Vital either. For wavetable stuff I usually pick Serum and Falcon 2. And recently MSoundFactory.


----------



## doctoremmet

LET’S GO!


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> LET’S GO!



Just noticed the sane thing, was going to post to let you know if there 😊


----------



## doctoremmet

The day after I purchase BHCT. The day I am going to get Tenor Colossus... sure Tracktion - release it TODAY ... haha


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet

Thanks Mark. Yes, it seems we’re both using YT as our main notification system haha


----------



## doctoremmet

Patches


----------



## kgdrum

@doctoremmet f’em looks pretty cool,funny thing watching this walk through confirms I’m a lowlife NY’er 
The entire time I saw the posts from you about this new synth F’em you’ve been anticipating in my twisted mind I always thought the name of the synth was an abbreviation of Fuck ‘em! lol


----------



## doctoremmet

kgdrum said:


> @doctoremmet f’em looks pretty cool,funny thing watching this walk through confirms I’m a lowlife NY’er
> The entire time I saw the posts from you about this new synth F’em you’ve been anticipating in my twisted mind I always thought the name of the synth was an abbreviation of Fuck ‘em! lol


Which of course is the intended effect haha


----------



## kgdrum

It really didn’t even occur to me F’em was pronounced FM,yes I’m a lowlife drummer from NY.


----------



## doctoremmet

SWEET MOTHER OF GOD: THIS THING SOUNDS WILD!!!!


----------



## Summa

I downloaded the demo, just had a short look at it, but have 90 Days for experiments 
The few presets I tried so far aren't exactly amazing  It needs a bit work to let him sound harsh, but has quite an low end fundament. I find editing the envelopes a bit wacky and filter can't be feed back into the operators, like I tend to do occasionally on the FM8.
I was able to made him alias pretty early.
Pitch Envelope per Operator is a good thing and even better that it works with fixed Frequency operators, that way it's possible to create additional punch. I like that its operators can be tuned down to 0Hz and that free running operators can be phase synced, that way Operators can be combined to a free running Oscillator like entity.
LFOs are polyphonic an free running  (if needed)
Levels are scaled, not that much dead space until modulation start, the upper 3rd is stretched, probably increases the resolution of the modulators "sweetspot", not sure if this works well in every situation.


----------



## doctoremmet

Reporting back after first impressions. F ‘em sounds awesome. Most of the presets are meh, but I don’t care about those anyway. I did however run into half a dozen bugs, so for those slightly less eager than yours truly it may be wise to wait a while longer for a bug free v1.2 or something


----------



## mscp

José Herring said:


> I have FM8. I like FM synthesis but I don't really enjoy at all working with it.
> 
> Got any suggestions for some good FM synthesis?


Does it have to be software?


----------



## shawnsingh

Phil81 said:


> Does it have to be software?


My vote is to talk about hardware too. Would love to hear about options in that space too. Especially if people have opinions on workflow about them - seems like MODX for example is way too much menu diving, would be very interested in deep-yet-fast-workflow options. Digitone might fit that bill.


----------



## muziksculp

Tone2 has just released *Nemesis 2 *

https://www.tone2.com/nemesis.html


Regarding HW FM-Synths, my Yamaha Montage 7 has FM-X synthesis, which sounds wonderful, but it does require a good amount of menu diving, there is a software editor for it, but I haven't really spent much time with it. The Montage is a very deep synth.


----------



## José Herring

Phil81 said:


> Does it have to be software?


Not really, but I have a long standing policy of never getting a hardware synth that is digital because the computer can handle digital for a lot less money.


----------



## mscp

José Herring said:


> Not really, but I have a long standing policy of never getting a hardware synth that is digital because the computer can handle digital for a lot less money.


Problem is, VST synths are sterile and they often take more sound design steps to make something sound pleasing to the ears; whereas with hardware, you know...

I don't use synth VSTs but I do work with Max/MSP when I want to reach for a sound in the box. You might want to take a look at that. It's a great modular platform that has FM via Beap if you want pre-built modules, but the learning curve is "oh oh" so steep.

If you're into 3U modular (euro) check out E352 - Cloud Terranium. I use this ALL the time. So easy to make FM'ed sounds with it. That, in conjunction with Plonk...beautiful.

If you're a desktop kind of guy and don't want to spend too much on a box, I recommend Elektron synths. They're really good at FM synthesis. I've played with them, but don't own one. I opted for something else a bit more pricier that does a bunch of other things as well.


----------



## doctoremmet

I have a ridiculous amount of hardware and I love them all. It is true that hardware can inspire!

But... Software is sterile? Hard disagree there. A lot of software synths can give me goosebumps. Also: I bet most people (including myself) will fail A/B tests (hardware / software) or won’t simply be able to tell what they’re listening to.


----------



## muziksculp

F'em is $179. , there is no Intro Price ?


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> F'em is $179. , there is no Intro Price ?


There was. Got it for little over $100. A mere three days though, after a 15 month wait since NAMM 2020 teasers.

Pretty expensive, but worth it if you’re really into programming FM. I think you’re good with Flow Motion though. If you want to spend more money on something deeper, for now I recommend MSoundFactory and/or Bazille. Wolfram needs to iron out some wrinkles first, before you’ll hear me recommend this one to “the general public” on here


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> There was. Got it for little over $100. A mere three days though, after a 15 month wait since NAMM 2020 teasers,


I see, the price is kind of steep, I also noticed that some users are having a few issues, so I might wait a while until they update it, since there is no incentive to rush to buy price wise.


----------



## kgdrum

muziksculp said:


> F'em is $179. , there is no Intro Price ?


Yeah this is pretty strange release.
The synth gets delayed over a year,it’s finally released. Their way of rewarding everyone for their patience? They give people a three day intro period while the synth appears to be a bit buggy w/some people feeling it’s also a bit unintuitive.

my reaction?

F’em! 🖕


----------



## Trash Panda

doctoremmet said:


> There was. Got it for little over $100. A mere three days though, after a 15 month wait since NAMM 2020 teasers.
> 
> Pretty expensive, but worth it if you’re really into programming FM. I think you’re good with Flow Motion though. If you want to spend more money on something deeper, for now I recommend MSoundFactory and/or Bazille. Wolfram needs to iron out some wrinkles first, before you’ll hear me recommend this one to “the general public” on here


This is a very telling take considering your usual enthusiasm for most products and the hype this appeared to have for you leading up to release.


----------



## doctoremmet

Trash Panda said:


> This is a very telling take considering your usual enthusiasm for most products and the hype this appeared to have for you leading up to release.


It is. It is a great synth still


----------



## lastmessiah

I've had no issues at all with f'em. I wouldn't put much stock in what people complain about on forums, a lot of those guys just don't understand software or how to maintain computers, or they just love to complain.


----------



## doctoremmet

lastmessiah said:


> I've had no issues at all with f'em. I wouldn't put much stock in what people complain about on forums, a lot of those guys just don't understand software or how to maintain computers, or they just love to complain.


Some of the complaints are legit, because there are a couple of bugs. They’re being fixed, but they’re there. By the way, I think I brought that message with a certain nuance and I do know my software. Especially FM synthesis software haha. Been programming FM synths since 1986. But anyway: all is fine folks. I am just talking shit here.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> I think you’re good with Flow Motion though.


Yes, Flow Motion is a great sounding FM Synth. I will think about F'em which is a much more sophisticated, and deep FM synth when they have it less buggy, and possibly at a more attractive price. 

Thanks.


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> Yes, Flow Motion is a great sounding FM Synth. I will think about F'em which is a much more sophisticated, and deep FM synth when they have it less buggy, and possibly at a more attractive price.
> 
> Thanks.


I’ll keep an eye out for ya


----------



## muziksculp

By the way, Tone2 recently released *Nemesys 2* FM Synth.

Anyone using it ? I don't hear a lot about it. It's currently available at $99. instead of $199.

Listening to the sounds of this synth on their site, it sounds very rich, and musical. 

https://www.tone2.com/nemesis.html


----------



## sostenuto

Demo'ing Nemesys 2 now. Waverazor was initial tracktion interest and faded since. 
Hoping F'em gets things sorted and provides fine tool. FM8 still go-to.


----------



## muziksculp

sostenuto said:


> Demo'ing Nemesys 2 now.


Cool. Let us know how you like it. 

Thanks.


----------



## Summa

doctoremmet said:


> I did however run into half a dozen bugs, so for those slightly less eager than yours truly it may be wise to wait a while longer for a bug free v1.2 or something


...and the next xmas or black whatever sale, since my curiosity has been satisfied by the Demo so far  I tested a few ideas to make it sound a bit more oldschool/crunchy 



lastmessiah said:


> I've had no issues at all with f'em.


At least creating envelopes is a bit edgy (not sure this is the right word for it), adding/removing segments is not much fun, tends to change the complete layout of the EG, and it seems changes on attack sometimes needs a bit "rethinking time" by the engine (or an additional segment) until it works. Wouldn't be much fun making sounds that way, until someone would pay me to  and I guess that's the problem with the factory presets.


----------



## doctoremmet

It can sound very crunchy indeed. Soundwise I quite like f 'em.


----------



## muziksculp

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/tone2-nemesis-2-synth-sounds-wonderful.110553/


----------



## Summa

muziksculp said:


> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/tone2-nemesis-2-synth-sounds-wonderful.110553/



I'm kind of disappointed in case I see a Synth with ADSR-Envelopes, I'll never get a satisfying sound behaviour done with those, especially when it comes to FM. Is their a hidden multi stage envelope?


----------



## Russell Anderson

IIRC MSEGs are on the way in phase plant. At some point. It could happen during the coming modulation update, as they're doing a bunch of porting of Phase Plant modulation capability to the other snapin hosts, but they're also updating the kinds of modulation available, which might mean MSEGs are on the way as well in that update

I should specify that at the current moment, freely editable LFOs are the current form of MSEG but there are no loop points for instance, no 'sustain' portion leading to release


----------



## ratherbirds

What are your 5 favorite FM sounds. Send your sound clips!


----------



## Summa

ratherbirds said:


> What are your 5 favorite FM sounds. Send your sound clips!



Is this directed to the thread starter? Since I don't have favourite FM Sounds, I tend to make sounds for a synth that inspires me to make music or when making factory sounds I tend to make sounds I believe other ppl. tend to like, known classics or OPL3 type sounding stuff, subtractive/analog-type sounds with lots of non-subtractive twists, when it comes timbre changes.
I on my part like the way FM sounds the way the sounds can be bent and changed, non fixed (non-sample type) timbres , almost instrument like flexible playable/controllable sounds.


----------



## doctoremmet

My favourite FM sounds are all variations of very smooth to harsh evolving bell like pads, mallet type percussive sounds, all variations of let’s call it the Lately / Sol Bass type stuff, all kinds of artificial brass sounds this synthesis is extremely capable of and the ambient Eno type pads.

For examples: Eno’s oeuvre after 1983, Scritti Politti’s Cupid & Psyche and especially Provision albums (all the lovely short staccato percussive bits).

This music is not my typical cup of tea and does little to fight FM’s legacy as THE synthesis of choice for “cheesy” sounds. But it is a particular highlight of what is cool about FM sound:



That breathy layer of percussive sounds. Love it. Around the 0:59 mark that typical FM brass comes in. Permutations of that patch are incredibly useful in far more “avant-garde” musical contexts as well


----------



## doctoremmet

This Dutch indie band (trio) tours with a DX9 4OP synth on top of a Rhodes. All sounds: FM. Love it.


----------



## doctoremmet

But really, FM is made for this type of mayhem:


----------



## ratherbirds

Summa said:


> Is this directed to the thread starter? Since I don't have favourite FM Sounds, I tend to make sounds for a synth that inspires me to make music or when making factory sounds I tend to make sounds I believe other ppl. tend to like, known classics or OPL3 type sounding stuff, subtractive/analog-type sounds with lots of non-subtractive twists, when it comes timbre changes.
> I on my part like the way FM sounds the way the sounds can be bent and changed, non fixed (non-sample type) timbres , almost instrument like flexible playable/controllable sounds.


What I also wanted to say is that we often hear about FM synthesis, but that we never really have an example of very beautiful FM sound. We often hear the classic cold electric keyboards, or once again cold brass instruments, when we can do so much more and better with FM and in such diverse styles and universes. This is why I expected from the masters of FM to give us sound examples of original and harmonious FM timbres. Their own creations. Which make you want to immerse yourself in this complex sound synthesis universe full of surprises. In the examples which have just been given, we are already taking out classic clichés.


----------



## lastmessiah

ratherbirds said:


> What I also wanted to say is that we often hear about FM synthesis, but that we never really have an example of very beautiful FM sound. We often hear the classic cold electric keyboards, or once again cold brass instruments, when we can do so much more and better with FM and in such diverse styles and universes. This is why I expected from the masters of FM to give us sound examples of original and harmonious FM timbres. Their own creations. Which make you want to immerse yourself in this complex sound synthesis universe full of surprises. In the examples which have just been given, we are already taking out classic clichés.


Most people associate FM with those cheesy 80's sounds. But that is by no means all that it can do. The Sinister example posted above is a good representation of the sounds I like to coax out of an FM synth. It's really all about movement and modulation, especially when you can modulate the frequency ratios themselves. It opens a world that simply isn't possible with your typical filter-sweeping subtractive synth. Another thing I like to do is fuck with the noise oscillators and process the hell out of them, then resample the results and throw that into a sampler for further shaping. The possibilities are endless really.


----------



## doctoremmet

ratherbirds said:


> We often hear the classic cold electric keyboards, or once again cold brass instruments, when we can do so much more and better with FM and in such diverse styles and universes. This is why I expected from the masters of FM to give us sound examples of original and harmonious FM timbres



“we never really have an example of very beautiful FM sound”

We don’t? I guess YOU don’t like how it sounds then? Because I have tons of examples 

1. Cold. Warm. What do those adjectives even mean? I like COLD sounds, so sorry to disappoint hehe. FM is digital sounding. That’s kind of... the point? At least a sweetspot. So I do not agree with or subscribe to your apparent aspirations to make FM synths sound “better” than that.

2. I have used FM synths since 1986. The point of this thread never was “hey, how does FM sound?”. Most in this thread know. Cheesy sounds come out of FM synths sometimes. But what demos or videos have you been watching? There are hundreds of “non-DX7-presets-playthroughs” 

3. I do not consider myself a “master of FM” nor has anyone else proclaimed to be 

4. Recording and posting presets takes time 

Here’s an hour’s worth of gorgeous “warm” FM:



Here’s how a DX7 ought to be played:


----------



## Summa

A little Demo I recently created with FM8 as an Example for someone who wanted to know how to create glassy Sounds with an FM-Synth.
View attachment Glassy.mp3


A rather an harsh sounding experiment I did with FM-X/Montage

View attachment MontageDMinspired.mp3


----------



## ratherbirds

Summa said:


> A little Demo I recently created with FM8 as an Example for someone who wanted to know how to create glassy Sounds with an FM-Synth.
> View attachment Glassy.mp3


Yes, FM is particularly well suited for creating sumptuous bell sounds.
Like Vangelis in Mask part 4


Besides, I believe there are also a lot of other FM sounds used in his album Soil Festivities (if anyone can confirm?)

See also an example of an FM8 sound that I posted in 2017:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...s-your-favorite-synth-for.66700/#post-4155745


----------



## ratherbirds

doctoremmet said:


> ...
> 1. Cold. Warm. What do those adjectives even mean? I like COLD sounds, so sorry to disappoint hehe. FM is digital sounding. That’s kind of... the point? At least a sweetspot. So I do not agree with or subscribe to your apparent aspirations to make FM synths sound “better” than that.
> 
> 2. I have used FM synths since 1986. The point of this thread never was “hey, how does FM sound?”. Most in this thread know. Cheesy sounds come out of FM synths sometimes. But what demos or videos have you been watching? There are hundreds of “non-DX7-presets-playthroughs”
> 
> 3. I do not consider myself a “master of FM” nor has anyone else proclaimed to be
> ..


I have been a lover of FM synthesis since the 80s. I defend it. I even composed several songs with a simple Yamaha CX5M MSX (FM 4op) (+ 1 Roland TR-505). That's why I don't like it being presented only through factory "cold" patches (not in this forum, in the media in general). There is cold (which we may like), percussive, crystalline, precise digital, but also dissonant, unpredictable, movement and layers of broad and warm strings, and winds and brass with complex attack transients, noise, effects, UFOs ...
Note: Masters in the (humorous) sense: passionate and enlightened amateurs (or professional )


----------



## Summa

ratherbirds said:


> Yes, FM is particularly well suited for creating sumptuous bell sounds.


It's not about the bell type sound, the rest isn't exactly FX based either, it's part of the FM, you may recognise that it changes with the sound, FX wouldn't work that way.




ratherbirds said:


> See also an example of an FM8 sound that I posted in 2017:
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...s-your-favorite-synth-for.66700/#post-4155745


This might be the heat and lack of sleep, but I can't find an example, only a dead Video.


----------



## ratherbirds

Summa said:


> It's not about the bell type sound, the rest isn't exactly FX based either, it's part of the FM, you may recognise that it changes with the sound, FX wouldn't work that way.
> 
> 
> 
> This might be the heat and lack of sleep, but I can't find an example, only a dead Video.


Here the Patche FM8 Bell.ogg 2017 file converted to .mp3. With FM8 morphing


----------



## ratherbirds

Is there a VST equivalent to the combination of FM and Formant Shaping Synthesis from the Yamaha FS1R? With FM alone, I have often tried to create sounds of choir pads or other vocal timbre without ever succeeding.


----------



## doctoremmet

There isn’t.


----------



## sostenuto

Puzzling indeed that devs capable of producing 'decent' synths ( FM & others ) often provide presets which fail to promote key features of the product ! 
While not effective, _personally_, with deep synth manipulation, presets are so helpful in getting close to desired sounds, which can then be tweaked with minimal skills. 

Kudos to those here, and 3rd Pty Dev(s), who offer needed examples /content.


----------



## Summa

ratherbirds said:


> Here the Patche FM8 Bell.ogg 2017 file converted to .mp3. With FM8 morphing


Ah - Ok - thanx!

I just rechecked my sound, sorry - wasn't FM8 - I did the first example with Massive 
Just took what I found after a quick look on my internet PC



ratherbirds said:


> I have often tried to create sounds of choir pads or other vocal timbre without ever succeeding.


Their is little trick creating formants on an FM-Synth, simply use higher carrier than modulator frequencies. 



ratherbirds said:


> Is there a VST equivalent to the combination of FM and Formant Shaping Synthesis from the Yamaha FS1R?


On the other hand those FS1R Operators in Formant mode tend to be nice flexible modulators, since they simulate a bandpass filter with a flexible bandwith and the pitch EG per Operator turns into the corresponding filter EG while the OP is in Formant Mode.


----------



## Summa

On Tuesday Tracktion starting an live event about F'.em



Introduction to F.'em Synth

F.'em is one of the most powerful FM synthesizers ever made, taking advantage of modern CPU resources to process its freely configurable 11 operator matrix. Join us on our live stream where the team will discuss the amazing F.'em functions as well as answering your questions and queries.


----------



## Russell Anderson

ratherbirds said:


> Is there a VST equivalent to the combination of FM and Formant Shaping Synthesis from the Yamaha FS1R? With FM alone, I have often tried to create sounds of choir pads or other vocal timbre without ever succeeding.


Well, you can load up a formant filter in Phase Plant and set the effects lane to “polyphonic” and then note-modulate the X/Y position of the filter, and/or modulate it manually with a macro or whatever mod source


----------



## Summa

It's even a bit of tricky using the FS1R formant operators for Vowel Sounds when trying to set it manually, but they make great flexible modulators, that can sweep thru different frequencies seamlessly. It's a bit like using that pseudo sync some VAs offer in FM context.


----------



## Markrs




----------



## José Herring

I love that this thread has continued on. Learning a lot.


----------



## Summa

Summa said:


> I just rechecked my sound, sorry - wasn't FM8 - I did the first example with Massive
> Just took what I found after a quick look on my internet PC


Ok, so these two are from the FM8, found those example on HD and rechecked it on FM8, it's part of my sound library  First one kind of emulates an wavetablesynth using FM. 

View attachment Tablepad.mp3


View attachment Octamizer.mp3


Again Montage a single FM-X Part, my latest harsh/noisy creation 

View attachment PldDistGls.mp3


----------



## Summa

ratherbirds said:


> I have often tried to create sounds of choir pads or other vocal timbre without ever succeeding.


I can provide you with a basic FM8 patch that should lead you the way. It's pure FM, haven't used the filters, even so it's easier that way.


----------



## ratherbirds

Summa said:


> I can provide you with a basic FM8 patch that should lead you the way. It's pure FM, haven't used the filters, even so it's easier that way.


Thanks for the patch. I'm more looking for a wide sound of female or children's choirs (with haaa sound) like in most of the attached FS1R demos:


----------



## Summa

ratherbirds said:


> Thanks for the patch. I'm more looking for a wide sound of female or children's choirs (with haaa sound) like in most of the attached FS1R demos:


I know the FS1R well, it's part of my equipment, got mine in the 90s after the first price drop. But it's not exactly easy creating those sounds from scratch with this synth. Gender/Age of the voice depends on the frequency of the formants, this works better/easier when for instance using bandbass filters with variable bandwiths. 
Well - in case you have Massive, I added an example. It's an old (not completely finished) sound of mine I did 5 years ago.


----------



## sostenuto

Aparillo now @ $49. on Plugin Boutique. Weak FM'r but enjoy learning more. Is this solid option ?









Aparillo


Aparillo, Aparillo plugin, buy Aparillo, download Aparillo trial, Sugar Bytes Aparillo




www.pluginboutique.com


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Aparillo now @ $49. on Plugin Boutique. Weak FM'r but enjoy learning more. Is this solid option ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aparillo
> 
> 
> Aparillo, Aparillo plugin, buy Aparillo, download Aparillo trial, Sugar Bytes Aparillo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pluginboutique.com


IIRC it is 2OP FM. Don’t have it, but this one is more for your “weird” glitchy digital stuff I gather. My tip for affordable yet excellent FM is actually Waves Flow Motion.$29.99. Excellent synth, 4OP FM. The sweet spot honestly. Love that thing.


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Aparillo now @ $49. on Plugin Boutique. Weak FM'r but enjoy learning more. Is this solid option ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aparillo
> 
> 
> Aparillo, Aparillo plugin, buy Aparillo, download Aparillo trial, Sugar Bytes Aparillo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pluginboutique.com


Which is not to say this thing ain’t cool. But I THINK not the best gateway into the FM universe.


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Which is not to say this thing ain’t cool. But I THINK not the best gateway into the FM universe.


Pretty much 'in-sync', as was headed to Waves Audio to recheck Flow Motion.


----------



## doctoremmet

A really cool feature of Flow Motion is a step sequencer that lets you swap in new patches per step. I wish more synths did that.


----------



## digitallysane

Manny Fernandez (those into FM know who he is) having a very interesting discussion about F'em, and comparing it with a fabulous hardware FM project that I heard about for the first time, Essence FM.

Here (hopefully it starts at the right time, if not go to 1:25:03):


----------



## doctoremmet

digitallysane said:


> Manny Fernandez (those into FM know who he is) having a very interesting discussion about F'em, and comparing it with a fabulous hardware FM project that I heard about for the first time, Essence FM.
> 
> Here (hopefully it starts at the right time, if not go to 1:25:03):



Thanks for posting this!


----------



## digitallysane

Meanwhile on the same channel I found a longer video about Essence FM:


----------



## Summa

Kodamo already works on an FM-Keyboard with a different engine, hopefully with more than one Feedback per Algorithm or more than 24 User Waves per Synth. What was a real dealbreaker to me, when it comes to that interesting Synth, since I tend to adjust level and harmonic contents of the Operators until I'm happy with the FM results.


----------



## emptyvessel

doctoremmet said:


> IIRC it is 2OP FM. Don’t have it, but this one is more for your “weird” glitchy digital stuff I gather. My tip for affordable yet excellent FM is actually Waves Flow Motion.$29.99. Excellent synth, 4OP FM. The sweet spot honestly. Love that thing.


I worked on Aparillo and there are a bunch of my presets in it. I enjoyed working with it, it's a very interesting synth, the Orbiter concept for applying modulation is very original and a very powerful tool for making slowly evolving sounds or rapidly varying timbres. It's very much its own thing though and the fact it uses FM to create sound is kind of irrelevant since it's presented in such an unusual and distinct way.
I cut my teeth programming FM on a DX21 way back in the 80s and have had a couple of SY77s, a lovely DX7 mk2 and a TX81Z since. I really love the Arturia DX7 with the DAC set to vintage, it really reminds me of the sound of the original and it's very nice to program, with some useful additions over the OG hardware. Currently my FM favourite but there are plenty I have not used.
It's worth considering the modulation freedom you get with Kilohearts Phase Plant also, audio can be freely routed from anywhere to anywhere (pretty much) so you can FM, PM, RM, AM etc. etc. to your heart's content. From simple pairs of VA waveforms to using a wavetable as the carrier and a sample as the modulator, also modulated by another morphing wavetable etc. etc. You get the point. The free architecture is a bit overwhelming I guess but it's also deep and powerful. Getting the synth without the fx pack is I think usually $99 on sale or they have a sub model.


----------



## doctoremmet

I can always count on Greg @Empty Vessel to totally inspire me to fire up a synth and program it! ❤️

Also I am sorry to inform you I now have every intention of buying Aparillo. And somehow GAS has re-developed for Xils Kaox :-( (why?!)


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> I can always count on Greg @Empty Vessel to totally inspire me to fire up a synth and program it! ❤️
> 
> Also I am sorry to inform you I now have every intention of buying Aparillo. And somehow GAS has re-developed for Xils Kaox :-( (why?!)


Wimpy, wimpy ..... but likely doing so as well. F.'em jumping to $179. is total turnoff and end of Traktion attention /focus. No clue how they can make they can make these Mktg decisions. Was leaning hard to purchase and take time to learn, but done for now.


----------



## doctoremmet

They do 50% off sales every now and then. You can always decide to purchase it then. I have to say I quite like f.’em, but I agree about it being weird that they had a mere three days for the intro price period.


----------



## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> They do 50% off sales every now and then. You can always decide to purchase it then. I have to say I quite like f.’em, but I agree about it being weird that they had a mere three days for the intro price period.


Weird? I think after throngs of people patiently waited for the release for several months,the genius’s behind F’em then decided giving prospective customers only a three day intro period was the right thing to do! This showed me that this was not a company I’d feel comfortable relying on or doing business with in the long term.
Yeah F’em might be a interesting synth but a developer with this kind of blind arrogance just makes me want to say F’em! 👎


----------



## doctoremmet

Hahaha ok. Hyperbole it is. I retract weird and replace it with “unforgivable to the point where out of solidarity with all victims I shall now erase any and all bits related to f.’em off of my ssd”

Better?


----------



## kgdrum

@doctoremmet
Oh I don’t think or expect you to delete F’em because I don’t like the move they made with the release although I do think they are marketing morons. 😂
It’s probably a really nice synth,you bought it and you should use it and enjoy your pretty F machine! It’s not F’em’s fault the developers aren’t suave marketing genius’s. 😜


----------



## Summa

I guess xmas sales will be the next date to reconsider the F'em. 

My luck I'm not running short on FM-Synth any time soon - HW like FS1R (Operators in Formant Mode are fabulous modulators), TG77, EVS-1 are waiting, also want to recheck Linplug Octopus, with the knowledge I gained since I did some of its factory presets. Well - and Surge is another Synth I'd like to get into much deeper.


----------



## doctoremmet

I came across this little SY99 noodle (including the Linndrum samples loaded in its 512 kb sample memory IIRC) I made decades ago:









Track No22 - TA 0


All SY99 (with Linndrum samples). Composed by TS.




soundcloud.app.goo.gl





(FM bass and chords) (your TG77 reference made me think of it, what a great range of synths that was)

Edit: haha - this one’s cool too. An 808 (samples in the SY), a TB clone and a K1 put through a Yamaha CS15 filter (triggered by a DMX rimshot IIRC). Through a mixer with a faulty right channel, and probably a delay from a cheap Alesis micro box. No FM, but it’s fun when one has a digitized archive of old cassette tape recordings from the 1990s hehe. Hmm.. reading the description it may also have been a K1 through an ARP Axxe’s filter hehe









Track No10 - TA II


Instruments used: SY99, TEEBEE, K1, Axxe




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## digitallysane

A heads up, I posted some links to what I consider to be the most interesting FM resource online, here: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/synthesizer-programming-resources.61892/post-4857290


----------



## doctoremmet

Ah yes. Those are classic works hehe. Good job.


----------



## Summa

doctoremmet said:


> I came across this little SY99 noodle (including the Linndrum samples loaded in its 512 kb sample memory IIRC) I made decades ago:


I got my TG77 about 2003 I think, used for €250. Still haven't found the time to do more with it than testing a few of settings (PWM, Waveshaping at 0Hz fixed frequency), doing draft sounds, by that time I already did factory sounds for FMHeaven and FM7. The TG77 kind of failed me Level modulation wise, since I would need some modulator level to went up and others down for nice timbre changes. Should test the workaround using two operators that phase wise cancel each other out to get the level down instead of up.
I got my first FM-Synth 1987 - a TX81z - programming it directly on the synth was pretty much pita, FM wise 2nd I got a FS1R after the first price drop, not sure if this was still 1998 or already 1999, also got an used Casio VZ-1 the same year. So I was kind of spoiled by the FS1R Macro control wise, even so the TG77 has a pretty mighty FM Engine with up to 3x Feedback and partly editable (beside that one free user) Algorithms and loopable Envelopes. Also feeding an AWM part into the FM can lead to some interesting results.


----------



## sostenuto

Heading for Aparillo now for $49. ? Have FM8. Flow Motion is $28. today. 
Maybe no 'right' answer, but open to fine tuning selection(s) for immediate purchase.


----------



## doctoremmet

Aparillo is a cool sound design-y weird machine. Still wouldn’t really call it an FM synth, the effects and the whole concept are kind of different. But I think depending on your intended use case you’ll likely get a lot of mileage out of it.

FM8 honestly is still a great FM synth, not much need to get Flow Motion is you already have access to FM.


----------



## sostenuto

OK ! One quick ?? plz _ what Phase Plant if placed on sale ?


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> OK ! One quick ?? plz _ what Phase Plant if placed on sale ?


Erm... not sure if I understand the question. Phaseplant on sale is a deal you won’t regret. Even without all the addon effects (I forget the name) it is a very capable synth. One of the best out there.

Only reason I don’t use it, is that I already have Hive 2, Falcon 2, MSoundFactory and Equator 2.

By the way, it somehow always escapes my attention, but speaking of FXpansion / ROLI synths: Cypher 2 is a fantastic FM synth too. But of course way less versatile than Phaseplant.

If you’re asking me whether you should wait spending $49 on Aparillo, and rather save up for Phaseplant (on sale), then I would ask YOU: what is your true objective here? 

If you want a REAL workhorse Tier A synth, one that can be reliably called upon for MANY duties (including live playing, because you are a gigging musician), then save your 49 bucks and go for something like Phaseplant. Aparillo is never going to be a synth you’ll use to comp away on and lay down some chord progressions, or sequence some pads over a piano track - etc.

If you’re after a good sounding digital synth with loads of sound design weirdness, that can be very useful for modern underscoring too, have fun with Aparillo.


----------



## sostenuto

Sorry for fuzziness .... FM is the focus, and Phase Plant only in terms of its FM pros /cons. 
Long, happy time with Omni2.6 __ distant possible addition would likely be from your posted list.
THX !


----------



## doctoremmet

Pleasure. Omni for sure is a powerhouse. Having that already does change things imho. Aparillo purchase approved ✅😂


----------



## freecham

Oldie but goodie, i still love the sound of Big Tick Rhino. I hope that version 3.0 will be released to make forget the current 800x600 interface...


----------



## emptyvessel

I'm sure it's helpful if we keep adding more candidates to an already cluttered list  but I forgot about Rob Papen's Blue II, haven't used it for years since I "borrowed" a copy of the OG Blue from a mate but definitely an interesting synth mainly based around FM/PM.





Rob Papen BLUE-II virtual synthesizer







www.robpapen.com




I think Aparillo is an interesting synth for $49 for sure but Phase Plant is much much more flexible for $99 on sale, I see Aparillo a bit like I see Loom 2, I pull it out sometimes and make some interesting noises which I sample then it goes back in the drawer for another few months. Phase Plant on the other hand I would use a few times a week. Of course, my experience and use case only so YMMV.


----------



## sostenuto

Phase Plant remains on short list. Recently got Pigments3 on-sale and quite pleased so far. Was not focused on FM then, yet one review states ... ' At the heart of Pigments lies a pair of synth engines, each of which can operate in one of four modes: Analogue, Wavetable, Sample or, new in Pigments 3, Harmonic. The first of these is a powerful three-oscillator virtual analogue synth _w__ith FM_ and hard sync capabilities. It also sports a noise generator that can blend smoothly through three different colours of noise (red, white and blue), and be used as an _FM source_ for the oscillators. ' 
Not being a synth-tweaker of note, do I just ignore this and contine with FM8 until Phase Plant deals arise ??


----------



## emptyvessel

sostenuto said:


> Phase Plant remains on short list. Recently got Pigments3 on-sale and quite pleased so far. Was not focused on FM then, yet one review states ... ' At the heart of Pigments lies a pair of synth engines, each of which can operate in one of four modes: Analogue, Wavetable, Sample or, new in Pigments 3, Harmonic. The first of these is a powerful three-oscillator virtual analogue synth _w__ith FM_ and hard sync capabilities. It also sports a noise generator that can blend smoothly through three different colours of noise (red, white and blue), and be used as an _FM source_ for the oscillators. '
> Not being a synth-tweaker of note, do I just ignore this and contine with FM8 until Phase Plant deals arise ??


I always think it's quite hard to offer "do I buy this or not?" advice unless the planned purchase is calm and calculated to fill a gap or solve some specific need, often (not saying here) that's not the case and irrational GAS is a bad place to be in IMO when sales pop up.
I worked on a big bunch of presets for Arturia for the Pigments 3 update so I really dug in deep for a couple of months, it's an impressive, great-sounding workhorse that can cover a lot of ground timbrally. The FM/PM/RM that's offered is more a seasoning rather than the reason the synth exists although it certainly can cover some of the sounds we're familiar with from the common FM synths.
The FM engine in Falcon 2 for example is way more what people who've had run ins with the DX range might expect to see and find familiar, as is FM7/8.
I somehow missed that you have FM8, to be blunt if that's the case I'm not sure I see the motivation for keeping looking for more FM synths unless you see something lacking there which you feel Phase Plant or some other synth might offer you? They are quite different synths but you specifically mention FM a lot and FM8 would be by far the more pure choice. Arturia's DX7 is really excellent as I mentioned in an earlier post and gives the DX7 experience but expanded and with "easier" programming.

I'm not sure I'm getting a good picture of the reason you're looking I guess and I think @doctoremmet has hinted at this too. Personally I think these days if you have one, mayyyyybe two of these super deep big hitter synths like Pigments or Falcon I struggle to see why you would still be looking for something else unless it's to cover a very specific sound that somehow one of those synths can't cover. Perhaps to get you to a specific sound world faster?

"Not being a synth-tweaker of note, do I just ignore this and contine with FM8 until Phase Plant deals arise ??" - is it your ambition to be a synth-tweaker of note? Not a loaded question in any way, just asking where you see yourself heading. I get that some people don't have the time or inclination for the deep exploration of these complex instruments and want to get on with making music, I'm more a sound explorer than a music creator these days so I appreciate deep tools I know will keep rewarding my curiosity for years to come. I'm a massive fan of Falcon particularly for this reason, if I weren't making presets for a bunch of manufacturers I'd likely not use much else except some bits of hardware, Bitwig/S1 and Falcon and I struggle to feel like I'd feel limited creatively or timbrally.
If you are finding yourself not rewarded by FM8 and Pigments or not gelling and want to keep looking for the right fit I get that, sometimes it can take quite a while to get into these complex instruments though and start getting to grips with them (no disrespect intended, I'm unaware of your specific level of ability/interest).

Sorry it's a long response, my general advice errs on the side of getting to know a small number of tools very well and you can generally get what you need out of them and often much faster due to familiarity. I get that collecting can just be fun too and fresh inspiration comes with new gear but often so does confusion, option paralysis and less productivity. Again, just my opinion, I hope it's helpful


----------



## Summa

In case one wants to understand FM, try to get an Synth with ratio frequencies, working with semi tones is imho not very helpful to understand that Synthesis form, but it's nice to have it available if you want to create chord pads  
In case of an VA don't get one that works with analog FM emulation only unless you want to use to add a bit dirt to the sound, digital FM aka Phase Modulation is a lot easier to predict, even more convenient than linear FM.


----------



## digitallysane

shawnsingh said:


> So what's everyone's specfic reason that they are into FM?
> - recreating the legendary retro sounds
> - being able to emulate a more modeling-like approach to synthesis
> - the idea of playing around with the harmonics and complicated tone generation
> - to advocate for the extremely worthy underdog versus subtractive synthesis
> - potential for modulating interesting parameters within a sound
> - other?
> - all the above?


My main reason (and I suspect it's a reason for many, even if not a conscious one) is the fact that FM is very _musical_.

And for many who are experienced musicians or synthesists, it may come as a given, but for someone like me, very new to both music in general and synthesis in particular, the way FM connects with music theory is both fascinating *and *an amazing learning tool.

I think this teaching aspect of FM is something that should be emphasized more (_"Learn FM and you'll end up understanding music better"_), instead of the common approach which emphasizes the exact opposite (_"FM is hard because you have to know what you're doing"_).

If one is learning music (theory), FM is probably the best thing to learn at the same time.


----------



## doctoremmet

shawnsingh said:


> So what's everyone's specfic reason that they are into FM?
> - recreating the legendary retro sounds
> - being able to emulate a more modeling-like approach to synthesis
> - the idea of playing around with the harmonics and complicated tone generation
> - to advocate for the extremely worthy underdog versus subtractive synthesis
> - potential for modulating interesting parameters within a sound
> - other?
> - all the above?



Easy. My first synth was a 4OP FM Yammie. So the whole concept became the first one I grew the most familiar with. At the time a lot of synths in fact lacked (decent) filters hehe. The second synth “we” got (my pal and myself) was his Kawai K1. A stack-four-8bit-samples together synthesis affair, no filters. We became extremely proficient on both of them. And the REALLY digital sounding patches full of weird glitchy artefacts became a familiar sound. So I guess that’s why FM will always remain my first love.


----------



## Summa

digitallysane said:


> And for many who are experienced musicians or synthesists, it may come as a given, but for someone like me, very new to both music in general and synthesis in particular, the way FM connects with music theory is both fascinating *and *an amazing learning tool.
> 
> I think this teaching aspect of FM is something that should be emphasized more (_"Learn FM and you'll end up understanding music better"_), instead of the common approach which emphasizes the exact opposite (_"FM is hard because you have to know what you're doing"_).



I think its a common mistake to confuse FM with additive synthesis, even so integer Ratio frequencies are representing the harmonics. 
At least my FM skills are rather based on experience and an idea/imagination what happens to the waveforms graphically (stretching/clinching wise) than on math. Calculation wise, more than a bit fractional arithmetic isn't necessary to master the synthesis form.
In my experience Soundprogramming can be pretty intuitive even when using FM or additive Synthesis. 
So don't lose yourself too much into calculation, just try to understand what happens (to the waveform) sound wise when changing a parameter.


----------



## digitallysane

Summa said:


> I think its a common mistake to confuse FM with additive synthesis, even so integer Ratio frequencies are representing the harmonics.
> [...]
> So don't lose yourself too much into calculation, just try to understand what happens (to the waveform) sound wise when changing a parameter.


No need to worry, but thanks for the tip.


----------



## doctoremmet

4th of July 40% off sale over at Tracktion. Back to intro price


----------



## sostenuto

Empty Vessel said:


> I always think it's quite hard to offer "do I buy this or not?" advice unless the planned purchase is calm and calculated to fill a gap or solve some specific need, often (not saying here) that's not the case and irrational GAS is a bad place to be in IMO when sales pop up.
> ********************** edit
> Sorry it's a long response, my general advice errs on the side of getting to know a small number of tools very well and you can generally get what you need out of them and often much faster due to familiarity. I get that collecting can just be fun too and fresh inspiration comes with new gear but often so does confusion, option paralysis and less productivity. Again, just my opinion, I hope it's helpful


Always appreciate capable, experienced, detailed comment /advice. In this case, as with others in past, sometimes just triggered by focused Threads dealing with 'toolbox' items currently in very short numbers. Only had FM8 when this FM topic arose, and interested in adding notable enhanced FM tools.

F/'em Intro attracted attention .... thus some explorative posts. Definitely more a 'sound explorer' currently, and secondarily, live keyboard player adding backing instruments via Reaper.
Enjoying Arturia Analog V DX7 patches and may go DX7 route. Some cool ones by @ Summa, but haven't seen any Empty Vessel.


----------



## doctoremmet

Arturia’s DX7 is a great FM synth. There are many great presets too.


----------



## emptyvessel

sostenuto said:


> Always appreciate capable, experienced, detailed comment /advice. In this case, as with others in past, sometimes just triggered by focused Threads dealing with 'toolbox' items currently in very short numbers. Only had FM8 when this FM topic arose, and interested in adding notable enhanced FM tools.
> 
> F/'em Intro attracted attention .... thus some explorative posts. Definitely more a 'sound explorer' currently, and secondarily, live keyboard player adding backing instruments via Reaper.
> Enjoying Arturia Analog V DX7 patches and may go DX7 route. Some cool ones by @ Summa, but haven't seen any Empty Vessel.


Yeah I totally understand. I personally didn't mesh with FM8 at all, I'm so used to the Yamaha way of presenting FM I just prefer the algorithms. The FM synth in Bitwig is the same matrix idea as FM8 so I do use it but it's not my preferred way.
Arturia DX7 came out before they approached me to do presets for them, Emu V sampler was the first thing I did presets for. I don't even think I was beta testing their gear at that point so yeah, no DX7 presets from me yet. I have a collab pack coming up which will be in the Arturia Analog Lab Store, a few DX7 sounds in that, can't say much more yet. I'm definitely open to putting more DX7 patches together in the future for them if they ask.
Good luck on your quest :D


----------



## sostenuto

Empty Vessel said:


> Yeah I totally understand. I personally didn't mesh with FM8 at all, I'm so used to the Yamaha way of presenting FM I just prefer the algorithms. The FM synth in Bitwig is the same matrix idea as FM8 so I do use it but it's not my preferred way.
> Arturia DX7 came out before they approached me to do presets for them, Emu V sampler was the first thing I did presets for. I don't even think I was beta testing their gear at that point so yeah, no DX7 presets from me yet. I have a collab pack coming up which will be in the Arturia Analog Lab Store, a few DX7 sounds in that, can't say much more yet. I'm definitely open to putting more DX7 patches together in the future for them if they ask.
> Good luck on your quest :D


THX for this ! Will be monitoring Analog Lab Store for your new Pack. ✌🏻


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I just added *Tracktion*'s* f'em*. Synth. Missed the recent sale on it, but I'm still happy I got it.

So far I like it. 4 Layers of FM synthesis can produce some quite rich, and complex sounds.

I'm trying to create a very plucky-metallic sound, similar to the sound of a Steel String Guitar sound, but with a more percussive character. Anyone try getting this type of sound from this synth ?

None of the presets have the plucky FM sound I'm trying to get. I will experiment more, I'm sure I can get what I want from f'em, just need to keep tweaking this baby. The good old Yamaha TX802 used to be good at doing this type of sounds. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## digitallysane

A demo of the next iteration of FM features (FM2) coming to SunVox:




I've been following SunVox for some time with great interest.
It's a nerdy modular synth that works on any platform available and seems to be able to do a ton of stuff if one has the inclination to dig a bit (a YouTube search will pop up tuts and examples).

Here's a manual: https://warmplace.ru/soft/sunvox/manual.php


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just added *Tracktion*'s* f'em*. Synth. Missed the recent sale on it, but I'm still happy I got it.
> 
> So far I like it. 4 Layers of FM synthesis can produce some quite rich, and complex sounds.
> 
> I'm trying to create a very plucky-metallic sound, similar to the sound of a Steel String Guitar sound, but with a more percussive character. Anyone try getting this type of sound from this synth ?
> 
> None of the presets have the plucky FM sound I'm trying to get. I will experiment more, I'm sure I can get what I want from f'em, just need to keep tweaking this baby. The good old Yamaha TX802 used to be good at doing this type of sounds.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


This is lovely!


----------



## muziksculp

It would have been super cool if f'em was able to import some of the classic Yamaha FM Synth patches.


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> It would have been super cool if f'em was able to import some of the classic Yamaha FM Synth patches.


Good news: a future update will allow you to import all 30.000 DX7 patches and Wolfram has said they’ll create a preset pack selection (including effects) at that time.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> Good news: a future update will allow you to import all 30.000 DX7 patches and Wolfram has said they’ll create a preset pack selection (including effects) at that time.


Oooh Holy-Cow.. now that's going to be super cool, there are so many great presets for those old classic Yamaha FM synths. I wonder when this update is going to be released ? 

Thanks so much for adding to my excitement today


----------



## doctoremmet

Word on the street: holiday season-ish.


----------



## lastmessiah

f'em is the real deal. I've been messing around with it the past few weeks, just making patches and playing with modulations. This thing is insanely powerful. You can do things I've not been able to on other FM instruments, such as modulating the amount that an operator modulates another operator and then scaling that with keytrack. And with 4 layers you can really go deep. It's crazy to me that people aren't talking about this more - there is hardly anything on YouTube about it.


----------



## doctoremmet

It’s FM. Likely perceived as “hard to program”, counterintuitive, harsh and digital sounding (which it can - which is a good thing haha) etc.

I have been waiting for over a year for f.’em and am one of its biggest fans. I already had Biotek 2 so I was fully aware what excellent programming and designing Wolfram Franke is capable of.

The marketing is a bit lacking too if you ask me. Presets are a bit underwhelming (not that I care) and the two videos mainly focus on EDM / dubstep kind of musical use cases and not sound design / cinematic scoring ones. They did release a really basic tutorial video the other day, 2 OP FM. Why? No idea - because honestly I am under the impression only true FM afficionados are buying f.’em so I’d much rather watch some deep “tips ‘n tricks” tutorial by @Sound Author @Whywhy or @Empty Vessel 

Anyway… yes extremely capable synth. Love the UI and looking forward to see where they will take it.


----------



## doctoremmet

lastmessiah said:


> f'em is the real deal. I've been messing around with it the past few weeks, just making patches and playing with modulations. This thing is insanely powerful. You can do things I've not been able to on other FM instruments, such as modulating the amount that an operator modulates another operator and then scaling that with keytrack. And with 4 layers you can really go deep. It's crazy to me that people aren't talking about this more - there is hardly anything on YouTube about it.


Messiah… try Xils-Labs Kaox by any chance?


----------



## lastmessiah

doctoremmet said:


> Messiah… try Xils-Labs Kaox by any chance?


I haven’t. I have Collective and Biotek which have decent FM capabilities in their own right, but you can only modulate the levels and there are fixed algorithms. I also use Bitwig Studio and even that is limited in FM (PM) compared to F’em. Probably the most unique FM synth I have is Cypher 2 which is sort of an analog emulation of true FM.


----------



## doctoremmet

Ah yes. I absolutely love Cypher! Great one.

Kaox still tempts me, I may have to jump on some sale some day.


----------



## Whywhy

@doctoremmet : I'm actually working on a cinematic extension for f.'em.


----------



## doctoremmet

Whywhy said:


> @doctoremmet : I'm actually working on a cinematic extension for f.'em.


Hit me up with a preorder button NOW or DM your Paypal & I’ll instabuy the hell out of it. Only to steal all your cool ideas of course!


----------



## digitallysane

Got that FM synth in the end...


----------



## shawnsingh

I want one too but I'm afraid the menu diving will ruin it for me, any thoughts about that?


----------



## digitallysane

shawnsingh said:


> I want one too but I'm afraid the menu diving will ruin it for me, any thoughts about that?


Give me a week 
First impression is that the worflow is nice. You can't have that amount of functionality and get one button per function. That's only doable with synths that are much narrower in scope.
This makes me think of "Falcon in hardware", the concept is quite similar.


----------



## shawnsingh

digitallysane said:


> Give me a week
> First impression is that the worflow is nice. You can't have that amount of functionality and get one button per function. That's only doable with synths that are much narrower in scope.
> This makes me think of "Falcon in hardware", the concept is quite similar.


Interesting perspective, I love falcon actually, I don't consider it to be a menu diver. For it's complexity, I think they did a great job keeping everything within a few clicks away. Look forward to hear your thoughts further!


----------



## doctoremmet

Somehow the whole esthetic of this video is completely non-compatible with my taste. I’m trying to listen through most of the EDM presets… did anyone pick up the v2 of this “neo FM” (whatever it may be) synth?


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> Somehow the whole esthetic of this video is completely non-compatible with my taste. I’m trying to listen through most of the EDM presets… did anyone pick up the v2 of this “neo FM” (whatever it may be) synth?



Hello @doctoremmet ,

Don't care for this video either. 

Yes, I have Nemesis 2, and like it a lot.


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> Hello @doctoremmet ,
> 
> Don't care for this video either.
> 
> Yes, I have Nemesis 2, and like it a lot.


Cool. THAT makes me all the more interested in it.


----------



## sostenuto

muziksculp said:


> Hello @doctoremmet ,
> 
> Don't care for this video either.
> 
> Yes, I have Nemesis 2, and like it a lot.


In terms of recent new FM(s) and great Threads __ which others (MS-Windows) do your preferences place 'higher' or at least comparable ?


----------



## doctoremmet

My top 5 FM synths (and a tailor made advice for Sos):

1. Tracktion f.’em. My dream FM synth. Deep. Highly programmable. My “FS1R”. Sounds good.

2. U-he Bazille. My best sounding synth, only equaled maybe by Hive. Very good synth. Has its quirks. But I love its built in spring reverb now. Modular FM!

3. Waves Flow Motion. Because let’s face it, a lot of times 4 operator FM is just the sweet spot. Love the “patch sequencer” or whatever it’s actually called. Just a sweet good sounding little FM synth.

4, Arturia DX7. Classic. Great implementation. I have owned the real deal for decades, and Arturia’s the one I love to program. Comes with a bunch of fantastic presets. I also like Synclavier’s FM implementation.

5. Falcon 2 / Ableton Live Operator. Just good 4 OP FM implementations. For when I need to dial in some FM quickly. 


My advice for Sos: check Waves Flow Motion if you want to have a good “all purpose” 4 operator FM synth to cover most bases, for $29.99 it can’t be beat in my opinion. It’s modern, has a decent UI (although some people seem to hate it) and is fun to work with.

If you want to use FM occasionally, maybe you can get access to FM by getting another synth, like Falcon or Phaseplant.


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> My top 5 FM synths (and a tailor made advice for Sos):
> 
> 1. Tracktion f.’em. My dream FM synth. Deep. Highly programmable. My “FS1R”. Sounds good.
> 
> 2. U-he Bazille. My best sounding synth, only equaled maybe by Hive. Very good synth. Has its quirks. But I love its built in spring reverb now. Modular FM!
> 
> 3. Waves Flow Motion. Because let’s face it, a lot of times 4 operator FM is just the sweet spot. Love the “patch sequencer” or whatever it’s actually called. Just a sweet good sounding little FM synth.
> 
> 4, Arturia DX7. Classic. Great implementation. I have owned the real deal for decades, and Arturia’s the one I love to program. Comes with a bunch of fantastic presets. I also like Synclavier’s FM implementation.
> 
> 5. Falcon 2 / Ableton Live Operator. Just good 4 OP FM implementations. For when I need to dial in some FM quickly.
> 
> 
> My advice for Sos: check Waves Flow Motion if you want to have a good “all purpose” 4 operator FM synth to cover most bases, for $29.99 it can’t be beat in my opinion. It’s modern, has a decent UI (although some people seem to hate it) and is fun to work with.
> 
> If you want to use FM occasionally, maybe you can get access to FM by getting another synth, like Falcon or Phaseplant.


Fine recap ! Personal leaning is one of 'top' choices __ even as _occasional_ FM user. That would currently be F/'em or Phaseplant ..... likely at BlkFri.
'Ease of use' may decide which.

(edit) ... tidbit for Temme _ et al .... Reaper Forum today had cool kudos to Pat Metheny via this YT interview.


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Fine recap ! Personal leaning is one of 'top' choices __ even as _occasional_ FM user. That would currently be F/'em or Phaseplant ..... likely at BlkFri.
> 'Ease of use' may decide which.


In that case, maybe even add Bazille + 2 soundsets to your shortlist. It is such a gorgeously good sounding synth… make it the “outsider” candidate 

These are two of the best soundsets I have ever heard:




^ thanks @Sound Author


----------



## doctoremmet

Btw, @sostenuto - there is a smaller version of Bazille. Just today I received this email promotion. I haven’t checked this - but it may be an interesting way to get an idea about Bazille:


EMAIL via Beat Magazine:

Create awesome EDM & Trap drops with u-he Beatzille

Not least because of the triumph of EDM, hardly any form of electronic music can do without them: drops and risers are the perfect transition between song segments. But really good drops and risers are not that easy to create. That's what workshops like this one are for...

All you need is our Beatzille synth by u-he, which ships with the latest BEAT Workzone 2/21. Get it at ZamplerSounds.com for only 9.99€, coming in English & German language.


----------



## doctoremmet

There’s also this “light” version:


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> In that case, maybe even add Bazille + 2 soundsets to your shortlist. It is such a gorgeously good sounding synth… make it the “outsider” candidate
> 
> These are two of the best soundsets I have ever heard:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ thanks @Sound Author





doctoremmet said:


> In that case, maybe even add Bazille + 2 soundsets to your shortlist. It is such a gorgeously good sounding synth… make it the “outsider” candidate
> 
> These are two of the best soundsets I have ever heard:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ thanks @Sound Author



Impressed. Teach me to _babble_ re. 'top tier' 🤭 Now at ~ $220. with Equinox + Cookbook !


----------



## doctoremmet

I know. They did a sale on Native Instruments a couple of months ago. Maybe wait for another opportunity like that.


----------



## digitallysane

shawnsingh said:


> Interesting perspective, I love falcon actually, I don't consider it to be a menu diver. For it's complexity, I think they did a great job keeping everything within a few clicks away. Look forward to hear your thoughts further!


Some updates after few days.
Main point: not a menu diver, quite the opposite actually. I find this thing faster and more straightforward than most VSTi s I've used (not too many, I admit).

The Falcon comparison is definitely valid, as the MODX has the same approach of breaking the complexity of a Performance (similar to a Falcon _Program_) into Parts (Falcon _Layers_) and further down into Elements / Operators (a fusion of Falcon's _Keygroups_ and _Oscillators_), with Tabs as an interface tool for navigating between lower level entities.

In terms of programming synths and especially FM, it's a joy. Very fast and direct, a better experience than any FM I tried in VSTis (that is, Falcon, FM8, Dexed).
This is not a criticism towards Falcon, but simply the result of having an optimized interface and hardware controls at hand.

It gives you a tabbed interface in which any FM OP is at a tap distance, and it params are split into two tabs, one for waveforms and ratios, the other for Envelopes. The Common tab for the whole patch offers some other tabs for Effects, Motion Control etc.
The Sliders on the left of the touchscreen are connected to the OP Levels when you're editing an FM Part, so you can adjust the Level of any OP without the need to have it shown or while you are tweaking the settings of another. Also, assigning parameters to knobs has a workflow that's faster than the usual MIDI learn in a VSTi.

When diving into Motion Control and macro assignments with automation etc, things do get a bit hairy, but not more than when you're cascading modulations in Falcon, adjust ranges and steps etc. Complex things are complex, but simple things are *very *straightforward.


----------



## shawnsingh

Didn't realize workflow was that smooth, this keyboard is now on my short list!

Side question, will it stand up to some rough use from toddlers?


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Btw, @sostenuto - there is a smaller version of Bazille. Just today I received this email promotion. I haven’t checked this - but it may be an interesting way to get an idea about Bazille:
> 
> 
> EMAIL via Beat Magazine:
> 
> Create awesome EDM & Trap drops with u-he Beatzille
> 
> Not least because of the triumph of EDM, hardly any form of electronic music can do without them: drops and risers are the perfect transition between song segments. But really good drops and risers are not that easy to create. That's what workshops like this one are for...
> 
> All you need is our Beatzille synth by u-he, which ships with the latest BEAT Workzone 2/21. Get it at ZamplerSounds.com for only 9.99€, coming in English & German language.


Very timely ! Got BEAT Workzone 2/21 and BeatZille ! Very cool for near term. Have Bazille Demo, but good to have this for long session learning ! Not sure if Equinox / Cookbook will work in BeatZille but will sort shortly. Many thanks ! ✌

(edit) hoping for some _eventual_ follow-up comment re. Tone 2 - Nemesis 2.

Surprised myself, having watched entire 1hr + Pat Metheny interview _ linked for you in Post #253. So much cool historical discussion ... including some re. Lyle Mays !


----------



## digitallysane

shawnsingh said:


> Didn't realize workflow was that smooth, this keyboard is now on my short list!
> 
> Side question, will it stand up to some rough use from toddlers?


I only have cats  .
The keyboard is very solid even if it's plastic all around.
However, it has a big touchscreen that's obviously very vulnerable.
Also, the keys for the synth-action models (6 and 7) are quite pointed out (similar to the Reface) and don't feel as solid as the rest of the hardware. I can imagine a determined toddler being able to damage them without much effort.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## sostenuto

muziksculp said:


>



🙏 cool, but so thankful for decent Presets !! 🤦‍♂️


----------



## sostenuto

muziksculp said:


>



BTW !!!  F.'em just now: see Attach ....
Launch was $107.40 ~~ 3 months ago. Only + ~ $18. now ! 👍


----------



## doctoremmet

Great great synth…


----------



## D Halgren

doctoremmet said:


> Great great synth…


Is F'em MPE?


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Great great synth…


Yeah So easily tempted by 🤑! 
Complex ( given shallow chops ) via vids so far. Presets may bail me out. 
Gonna try one of Bazille expansion Patch libs in BeatZille _ hoping for success.


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Presets may bail me out.


Hardly. They kind of suck sadly.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> Hardly. They kind of suck sadly.


Yes, you will get a lot more once you roll your own presets


----------



## doctoremmet

D Halgren said:


> Is F'em MPE?


----------



## D Halgren

doctoremmet said:


>


Thank you! Sorry for being lazy🤷‍♂️

I started researching after I asked.
Cheers brother!


----------



## doctoremmet

D Halgren said:


> Thank you! Sorry for being lazy🤷‍♂️
> 
> I started researching after I asked.
> Cheers brother!


Np


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## muziksculp

I don't have an MPE controller yet. I wonder how much of an improvement one can get when using an MPE controller with MPE compatible VSTs ? and which MPE controller is currently a good choice. 

I know Roli was having supply issues for their Seaboard line. I think they have a new model now, but not sure it's shipping yet, I think only Pre-Orders for now.


----------



## D Halgren

muziksculp said:


> I don't have an MPE controller yet. I wonder how much of an improvement one can get when using an MPE controller with MPE compatible VSTs ? and which MPE controller is currently a good choice.
> 
> I know Roli was having supply issues for their Seaboard line. I think they have a new model now, but not sure it's shipping yet, I think only Pre-Orders for now.


I haven't seen anything about a new Roli Seaboard replacement, but the old one is great. I think it makes a lot of difference for expression, kind of like an X/Y, but at your fingertips. Plus, you can do independent pitchbends per note.


----------



## doctoremmet

Maybe @muziksculp means the Lumi? That one’s been out for more than a year though…


----------



## Trash Panda

@doctoremmet has your outlook on F’em improved since release?


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> Maybe @muziksculp means the Lumi? That one’s been out for more than a year though…


Yes, that's the one. Their Lumi model. 

I don't know much about them, but they are quite small, and not cheap, I haven't read about them, or checked them out in detail. I don't know if they are still producing their older Seaboard models ? I know they had issues with component supply, which paralyzed their production line of the Seaboard.


----------



## doctoremmet

My outlook has never been anything else than positive, so no. 

My observation of a few bugs has changed. They were fixed quickly. Maybe you were referring to that.


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> Yes, that's the one. Their Lumi model.
> 
> I don't know much about them, but they are quite small, and not cheap, I haven't read about them, or checked them out in detail. I don't know if they are still producing their older Seaboard models ? I know they had issues with component supply, which paralyzed their production line of the Seaboard.


They’re cool but not Seaboard cool. So I’d wait for those to come back in stock.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> They’re cool but not Seaboard cool. So I’d wait for those to come back in stock.


I agree. The Lumi looks like a todler's toy.


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> I agree. The Lumi looks like a todler's toy.


Erm… okay. I wouldn’t agree there - it has some capabilities that are way beyond any toys I know.


----------



## digitallysane

Looks like hardware FM synths are becoming a trend.








SONICWARE LIVEN XFM


Multi-Track FM synthesizer / groove box "LIVEN XFM"




sonicware.jp


----------



## doctoremmet

Way to go @Databroth


----------



## Databroth

doctoremmet said:


> Way to go @Databroth



hey, thank you, this was a really fun stream, I'm trying to cover all the reason stuff again while I'm on reason+


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> Way to go @Databroth



Really great. Got me up to speed on the immense routing capabilities of Algoritm. I went from FM padiwan to FM Jedi Knight.


----------



## doctoremmet

Any Live users out there who tried this one yet? I was accidentally visiting Ableton’s site because I am still having an affair with physical modelling synths (IRCAMAX2….). And whaddayaknow…. FM strikes back and shows me this:










About - OctoCell







www.octocell.net


----------



## doctoremmet

I guess we’ll find out soon. An additive / FM combi with IRCAM DNA. I have a good feeling about this.


----------



## tf-drone

Well, that would cost me additional 200 oinks! I did not plan to upgrade Live...


----------



## doctoremmet

There must be some fellow MAX For Live users out there, but it seems Ableton is very much NOT the DAW of choice for media composers (which I understand). 

OptoCell is an awesome synth btw.


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> I guess we’ll find out soon. An additive / FM combi with IRCAM DNA. I have a good feeling about this.



Sounds really good. Nice musical please FM synth.


----------



## doctoremmet

Yes, very good sounding synth.


----------



## Dirtgrain

I wonder when Ableton's next sale will be. Octocell has me interested.


----------



## gamma-ut

Probably Black Friday. They only did 20% off Live Packs last year though.


----------



## doctoremmet

Dirtgrain said:


> I wonder when Ableton's next sale will be. Octocell has me interested.


As soon as a proper sale hits, I’ll make the jump for IRCAMAX I think….


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> There must be some fellow MAX For Live users out there, but it seems Ableton is very much NOT the DAW of choice for media composers (which I understand).
> 
> OptoCell is an awesome synth btw.


It is for many but they use it Rewire with Cubase or Logic or DP. But now that Live has axed Rewire, unless they come up with a replacement for it, it won't work. But, I've worked in plenty studios where I had to use Live back when I was ghosting more than I do now.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet

Dirtgrain said:


> I wonder when Ableton's next sale will be. Octocell has me interested.


I have to say Octocell is a GREAT synth. Was just playing it and it just sound great. I highly recommend it to all FM loving Live users.


----------



## muziksculp

OH.. No, what ... No mention of *Plogue's OPS7* FM Synth on this thread, and this is all about FM Synths ?

The best, most authentic DX7 Emulation so far : 

*PLOGUE CHIPSYNTH OPS7*


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> The best, most authentic DX7 Emulation


Is this your take? Or the actual marketing slogan by Plogue? I of course immediately purchased it and it has some cool features. It also sounds like a DX7. Much like how Arturia’s emulation does


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> Is this your take? Or the actual marketing slogan by Plogue? I of course immediately purchased it and it has some cool features. It also sounds like a DX7. Much like how Arturia’s emulation does


Hehe.. It's my ear's take.

The Plogue OPS7 sounds very much like a DX7. Didn't get that vibe from Arturia's DX7 emulations, I have no connection to Plogue, actually this is the first, and only product I purchased from them.

I was a bit surprised the OPS7 was not mentioned yet, on this FM Synth Thread.


----------



## doctoremmet

Gotcha. As a (hardware) DX7 guy myself I have to say I think I’d fail any A/B/C blind test you’d throw at me with the Plogue, Arturia and Yammie hardware variants, but Plogue have done a great job. Their Sfz sampler actually is very capable too, I’ve found since purchasing Karoryfer Samples libraries. A cool developer.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Pier

I got Bazille and the Cookbook!

Can anyone recommend a good introductory tutorial for FM synthesis?

I understand the basics, one osc modulating the phase of another osc, but I've never gotten anything out of it except garbage. What are the "fundamental tricks"?


----------



## kgdrum

Pier said:


> I got Bazille and the Cookbook!
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good introductory tutorial for FM synthesis?
> 
> I understand the basics, one osc modulating the phase of another osc, but I've never gotten anything out of it except garbage. What are the "fundamental tricks"?


Spend a couple of weeks with Temme


----------



## digitallysane

Pier said:


> I got Bazille and the Cookbook!
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good introductory tutorial for FM synthesis?
> 
> I understand the basics, one osc modulating the phase of another osc, but I've never gotten anything out of it except garbage. What are the "fundamental tricks"?


This is the best intro I've seen:








FM Synthesis Collection: FM 101 Article Series


FM Syntheses: What's the history behind it, how does it work - and how to make it work for you. These are all part of our FM 101 Series.




www.yamahasynth.com




It's for the Yamaha FMX engine, but it can be applied to other synths as well.


----------



## grabauf

You can't go wrong with Cameron.


----------



## Arbee

doctoremmet said:


>



Beautiful, I had to hear the whole thing. The only "things" missing were Jaco, Lee Ritenour, Tom Scott and Steve Gadd


----------



## quietmind

shawnsingh said:


> So what's everyone's specfic reason that they are into FM?
> - recreating the legendary retro sounds
> - being able to emulate a more modeling-like approach to synthesis
> - the idea of playing around with the harmonics and complicated tone generation
> - to advocate for the extremely worthy underdog versus subtractive synthesis
> - potential for modulating interesting parameters within a sound
> - other?
> - all the above?


I originally got into FM because at the time it was actually the only way to efficiently create and control complex synthetic sounds. That was a bit over 50 years ago at Stanford where it all began. And we had great hope to emulate naturalistic musical timbres with it too. 

Of course, Yamaha had the foresight to take on commercially developing it into those now legendary and still highly-prized playable keyboards.

What a wild ride it was. That said, it has remained continuously interesting and quite rewarding seeing how FM continues to be enjoyed in all its incarnations. This thread has been really fun to read!


----------



## whinecellar

shawnsingh said:


> So what's everyone's specfic reason that they are into FM?…


For me it was the songs that made it such a phenomenon. Just so many great moments in one decade. This is why I pursued building a hyper-detailed sample-based recreation of those sounds (the demo is referenced earlier in the thread). I wanted a way to share the experience of playing the sounds that were such a big part of my own musical journey, which turned into a career.

And from a technical standpoint, I wanted to try and capture the organic nature of these sounds despite using samples and not synthesis. Definitely a challenge to get them indistinguishable from the hardware, but it can be done. And since so many of these are huge layers from a TX816, you’d need 8 or more instances of a plugin synth to start getting in the ballpark, plus the processing to get them sounding radio-ready… anyway, this was a labor of love as a rather obsessive fan of 80s synth tones.

Oh, and for those who asked earlier in the thread, I have good news - I found a way to get these into Kontakt that I’m happy with, despite my earlier comments to the contrary. It’s a ton of work but it will be worth it for those who want these sounds. Hoping to have that done by Christmas!


----------



## Pier

grabauf said:


> You can't go wrong with Cameron.



Thanks this is exactly what I wanted!


----------



## grabauf

Pier said:


> Thanks this is exactly what I wanted!



You're welcome. And after watching the video, I have to try out Phaseplant.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Oh, I missed an opportunity to self-promote in the most blatant (yet appropriate) way:









Born Free – As Free as This Free Softsynth Goes


Almost all the best synths in life aren’t free. But SURGE is, as Jim Aikin reports (in this article and in the “don’t miss” video and audio that goes with it). Looking back a few years, my impression of freeware synthesizers was that they were unstable, glitch-prone, limited in their features...




synthandsoftware.com


----------



## Pier

grabauf said:


> And after watching the video, I have to try out Phaseplant.


Exactly!

I will be entertained for a while with Bazille but here's a thread about Phase Plant that should give you more GAS:






Phaseplant!!!!!!


Holy shit! I just got this synth. I decided to go subscription even though I hate subscriptions but at $10/month I can bury in some credit account and not even worry about it, and you get the new stuff as it comes out, I figured I'd try before I buy. So been fooling around with it tonight and...




vi-control.net


----------



## grabauf

Pier said:


> Exactly!
> 
> I will be entertained for a while with Bazille but here's a thread about Phase Plant that should give you more GAS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phaseplant!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Holy shit! I just got this synth. I decided to go subscription even though I hate subscriptions but at $10/month I can bury in some credit account and not even worry about it, and you get the new stuff as it comes out, I figured I'd try before I buy. So been fooling around with it tonight and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Nooooo!!! 🤣


----------



## doctoremmet

Who is this Herring fellow I keep hearing about. The man appears to have an incredibly well developed taste in synthesized sound.


----------



## DrEntropy

Pier said:


> Can anyone recommend a good introductory tutorial for FM synthesis?
> 
> I understand the basics, one osc modulating the phase of another osc, but I've never gotten anything out of it except garbage. What are the "fundamental tricks"?



Chowning /Bristow wrote a book on the subject that is very good and detailed. 
Fm Theory and Applications: By Musicians for Musicians​It uses DX patches so you can follow along with any emulator. I learned quite a bit from it!


----------



## digitallysane

DrEntropy said:


> Chowning /Bristow wrote a book on the subject that is very good and detailed.
> Fm Theory and Applications: By Musicians for Musicians​It uses DX patches so you can follow along with any emulator. I learned quite a bit from it!


That's a good one. Another very good one from the same time:








The Complete DX 7 : Howard Massey : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive


The Complete DX7- Howard Massey, Softcover (1986) (Based on the Yamaha DX7 keyboard)Synopsis:Based upon his intensive workshops at PASS (Public Access...



archive.org


----------



## doctoremmet

digitallysane said:


> That's a good one. Another very good one from the same time:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Complete DX 7 : Howard Massey : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
> 
> 
> The Complete DX7- Howard Massey, Softcover (1986) (Based on the Yamaha DX7 keyboard)Synopsis:Based upon his intensive workshops at PASS (Public Access...
> 
> 
> 
> archive.org


This has always been the ONE FM book for me.


----------



## digitallysane

doctoremmet said:


> This has always been the ONE FM book for me.


The FM 101 series on the Yamahasynths site, that I quoted above (https://vi-control.net/community/threads/fm-synths.94127/post-4931042 ) are written by the same Howard Massey.


----------



## DrEntropy

doctoremmet said:


> My top 5 FM synths (and a tailor made advice for Sos):
> 
> 1. Tracktion f.’em. My dream FM synth. Deep. Highly programmable. My “FS1R”. Sounds good.


I really like f'em, it's a solid 'successor' to the FM8, which I presume they are saying 'f'em' to with the name. My only minor complaint is that F'em doesn't (directly) support microtonal (which FM8 did) but this is not a big deal for 99.99% of users.


----------



## doctoremmet

DrEntropy said:


> I really like f'em, it's a solid 'successor' to the FM8, which I presume they are saying 'f'em' to with the name. My only minor complaint is that F'em doesn't (directly) support microtonal (which FM8 did) but this is not a big deal for 99.99% of users.


It is still my number one synth for FM. Just this afternoon I had tons of fun with the new Plogue DX7 emulation. Turned off all fx and A/B’d with a mk. 1. The thing is brilliant - could NOT tell which was which.


----------



## DrEntropy

doctoremmet said:


> It is still my number one synth for FM. Just this afternoon I had tons of fun with the new Plogue DX7 emulation. Turned off all fx and A/B’d with a mk. 1. The thing is brilliant - could NOT the which was which.


Incidentally the Plogue OPS7 *does* support microtuning and MTS-ESP. I bought the Plogue after watching this tech video: .


----------



## doctoremmet

Thanks @Databroth


----------



## digitallysane




----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

If you are into Ambient music, Tracktion's* F'em* is an amazing synth for that genre.

I was diving into programming it a bit, and was very surprised at how good it is for that genre, you know the atmospheric type, slowly evolving paddy sounds, with hypnotic motion, and lots of detail. ...etc.

You just have to dive deep into programming it. At first the user interface was a bit too busy, and cluttered for my eyes, but I gradually began getting used to it, and I'm sure reading the manual, and watching some video tutorials will help me harness it's potential a lot.

Just wanted to make this remark.

Loving this FM Synth.


----------



## GregSilver

Digging out this thread just to leave an actual feedback:

I own NI Komplete and so FM8 also. The main annoyance for me was the unscalable UI of that VST. On a 2K screen you will need a magnifying glass if you are not sitting 10" in front of your screen. I need to work with my VSTs and not guess what I may be clicking  Sadly NI doesn't really care about this problem (looking at you Kontakt).

So i looked for alternatives and thanks to a hint by @grabauf I picked Arturia DX7 V for 35$ at knobcloud today. This FM-Synth blows FM8 out of the water imho, and it's not only the sizeable UI (yay!). The plugin opens DX7 banks without any problems, has an awesome editor in the advanced mode, the patch-browser is the same as you know from Pigments, Analog Lab, etc. and most important it sounds really good. I was playing around with it for the last two hours and love it. My FM-needs are covered now.


----------



## doctoremmet

GregSilver said:


> Digging out this thread just to leave an actual feedback:
> 
> I own NI Komplete and so FM8 also. The main annoyance for me was the unscalable UI of that VST. On a 2K screen you will need a magnifying glass if you are not sitting 10" in front of your screen. I need to work with my VSTs and not guess what I may be clicking  Sadly NI doesn't really care about this problem (looking at you Kontakt).
> 
> So i looked for alternatives and thanks to a hint by @grabauf I picked Arturia DX7 V for 35$ at knobcloud today. This FM-Synth blows FM8 out of the water imho, and it's not only the sizeable UI (yay!). The plugin opens DX7 banks without any problems, has an awesome editor in the advanced mode, the patch-browser is the same as you know from Pigments, Analog Lab, etc. and most important it sounds really good. I was playing around with it for the last two hours and love it. My FM-needs are covered now.


And you’re achieving all of that with a fantastic emulation of the actual Godfather of FM synths, arguably the best implementation ever ❤️


----------



## doctoremmet

So gals and guys….






Yay or Nay? Did anyone end up actually getting Kaox & programming it? Basically a 2 x 4 OP affair, with some cool extra oscillators and LFOs. Never did hear many convincing demos, but did read one really favourable review. It has always sort of been on a shadowy longlist of stuff I think I may actually like though… for no apparent reason other than: Xils know what they’re doing and “FM”.

Thoughts?


----------



## doctoremmet

You can absolutely trust our German neighbours to do a proper review. This is a prime example:









Xils Lab KaoX, FM-Synthesizer Plug-in - AMAZONA.de


Xils Lab KaoX ist ein Plug-in, das vom legendären FM-Synthesizer Yamaha GS1 inspiriert wurde, und zusätzlich Analog- und Chaotic-OSCs besitzt




www.amazona.de


----------



## doctoremmet

@Whywhy Any plans to release more presets?


----------



## Whywhy

@doctoremmet, for now, I don't have any plan on releasing a new sound set for KaoX, I hope my soundset for f.'em will see the light before the end of the year. 
(Waiting for approval). I really like the sound of KaoX, I wish to have more time to play with it!


----------



## synthetic

OPS7 is SO GOOD. At least the videos where he's modeling every little idiosyncrasy of the DAC behavior. Insane detail and the result sounds great. I liked Dexxed better than FM8 but OPS7 blows them both away.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## grabauf

f'em is the deal of the day at Tracktion today. With 50% off and using my Tracktion points I could get it for $30.
Should I take a deep dive into FM realms?


----------



## doctoremmet

grabauf said:


> f'em is the deal of the day at Tracktion today. With 50% off and using my Tracktion points I could get it for $30.
> Should I take a deep dive into FM realms?


It is a terrific FM synth. For pure FM it is focused, has a great UI (at least for me as a DX7 and FM8 “veteran”) and sounds good. Get it.


----------



## doctoremmet

New material in the collection:


----------



## KEM

FM synthesis is wayyyyy above my head but I do remember Skrillex saying his most aggressive synth sounds were all made in FM8, perhaps it’s something I should look into, I’d love to learn more about it and see what I can do with it


----------



## doctoremmet

KEM said:


> FM synthesis is wayyyyy above my head but I do remember Skrillex saying his most aggressive synth sounds were all made in FM8, perhaps it’s something I should look into, I’d love to learn more about it and see what I can do with it


It is not so much that it's harder than subtractive synthesis really. It's just different. The bad reputation was probably established way back in the early 1980s when you had to program on your DX7's little multifunctional membrane keys on a non-backlit 2 x 16 character LCD display. Think "Eastwest PLAY articulation acronyms" multiplied times thousand in terms of complexity. Really user hostile haha, yet most of us who were willing to spend the time (hey, it was my only synth so I had no choice) eventually clicked with it and thought nothing of it after a while.

Nowadays with synths like Waves Flow Motion (which -I repeat myself- is an excellent entry point for 4OP FM synthesis), the excellent DX7 emulations by Arturia and Plogue, NI FM8 (which could do with some maintenance love in terms of modernizing the UI/UX), Tracktion's f.-'em and the FM options in flagship synths like Zebra, Bazille, Falcon, Phase Plant, MSoundFactory and the new crossmod in Pigments 3.5... options galore. 

I recommend you pick up some of the FM programming books that were mentioned in this thread. Once you grasp the basic principles, you'll be on your way pretty fast. And yes, FM is pretty capable of producing really good "digital" timbres


----------



## doctoremmet

What I love about FM in one song:


----------



## LA68

doctoremmet said:


> It is not so much that it's harder than subtractive synthesis really. It's just different. The bad reputation was probably established way back in the early 1980s when you had to program on your DX7's little multifunctional membrane keys on a non-backlit 2 x 16 character LCD display. Think "Eastwest PLAY articulation acronyms" multiplied times thousand in terms of complexity. Really user hostile haha, yet most of us who were willing to spend the time (hey, it was my only synth so I had no choice) eventually clicked with it and thought nothing of it after a while.
> 
> Nowadays with synths like Waves Flow Motion (which -I repeat myself- is an excellent entry point for 4OP FM synthesis), the excellent DX7 emulations by Arturia and Plogue, NI FM8 (which could do with some maintenance love in terms of modernizing the UI/UX), Tracktion's f.-'em and the FM options in flagship synths like Zebra, Bazille, Falcon, Phase Plant, MSoundFactory and the new crossmod in Pigments 3.5... options galore.
> 
> I recommend you pick up some of the FM programming books that were mentioned in this thread. Once you grasp the basic principles, you'll be on your way pretty fast. And yes, FM is pretty capable of producing really good "digital" timbres


Just to add to this, there's a youtube channel called Power DX7. The style of presentation is quite dry but I still feel like it's a very good start, coupled with Dexed. Lots of content, I enjoyed it.

Edit: This is the playlist I mean. Fantastic stuff.


----------



## Dirtgrain

doctoremmet said:


> What I love about FM in one song:



Phase Plant challenge: recreate these sounds.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet

12 January: meet the F.-‘Em developer.


----------



## grabauf

doctoremmet said:


> 12 January: meet the F.-‘Em developer.



Reminder set. Thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## doctoremmet

grabauf said:


> Reminder set. Thanks for pointing that out.


Pleasure. I think it’s rather cool how Tracktion engage with their user base.


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Pleasure. I think it’s rather cool how Tracktion engage with their user base.


Looking forward to 12th, and little question of F.'em strengths in current top class synths.
Given Aparillo APD $39. promo, and comparatively weak FM softsynth understanding, what are notable shortcomings versus F.'em ?
With Aparillo 2018 vintage, does it now slip well down list of top choices ? Review of videos, and demo is fairly impressive for 'lite-weight' FM'r. 🤷🏻 Orbiter appears innovative, cool, yet may not be useful day-today usage ? 

Frankly, both F.'em and Aparillo seem real challenge to truly master, as viewed now.


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Looking forward to 12th, and little question of F.'em strengths in current top class synths.
> Given Aparillo APD $39. promo, and comparatively weak FM softsynth understanding, what are notable shortcomings versus F.'em ?
> With Aparillo 2018 vintage, does it now slip well down list of top choices ? Review of videos, and demo is fairly impressive for 'lite-weight' FM'r. 🤷🏻
> 
> Frankly, both F.'em and Aparillo seem real challenge to truly master, as viewed now.


Both have different “use cases” and workflow. In all honesty, F.’Em is top of class in terms of sheer “specs” and options in the realm of “hardcore” FM synthesis. It is like owning an old FS1R. And that makes it cool for a certain demographic. Let’s call them the Doctor Emmets of this world.

Then there’s Aparillo. A “mere” 2 operator FM implementation (versus 8 operators per each of 4 layers). But with a whole slew of smart functions in terms of randomization, modulation, arpeggiators etc. and some well thought out hardcore FM ideas that take some of the guesswork out of programming. That’s a lot of words to express it sounds extraordinary and very good, and -which is kind of the whole point- like a top tier FM synth.

So what does this mean? Aparillo is a very capable machine, that in pure musical terms brings that super super digital FM flavour and does it well. It is smart, it is fun, comes with a unique angle and a slight learning curve, and is its own “thing”. Soundwise it is very capable of creating moving pads, cinematic risers, downers and all sorts of cool wooshes. Or completely harsh-yet-still-musicall fully randomized FM mayhem, if that’s your fancy. It is in other words one hell of an FM synth.

For people / users who are not necessarily looking for the ultimate FM synth for programming geeks, I’d argue Aparillo is by far the best pick, out of these two. Hell, throw in an extra 30 bucks and get the most excellent Waves Flow Motion for a brilliant 4OP FM implementation. You know… just to have that more traditional Yamaha algo type UI handy.

As for the year of release. 2018 versus 2021. For me personally it doesn’t say anything at all. FM is FM. It remains a bunch of sine waves that are phase modulated. In terms of innovation F.’Em basically iterates on the Native Instruments FM8 design philosophy (2021), whereas Aparillo is by far the more “innovative” and adventurous design of these two (2018). In other words, that one is slightly older than the other doesn’t matter much.


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Frankly, both F.'em and Aparillo seem real challenge to truly master, as viewed now.


Yes, that is true to a certain extent. I have been using F.’Em for months now and I have programmed FM synths for the larger part of my life (since I guess 1987). And that helps. I JUST got Aparillo (using the current deal) and in terms of sound I am very impressed. It is also fun to find out how it works but there are quite a few very good and informative tutorials on YT. Play with it for a couple of hours and you’re golden. Sugar Bytes really seem to know how to make their synths fun to work with.


----------



## doctoremmet

Dirtgrain said:


> Aparillo is niche and different in GUI, but I dig it.





whinecellar said:


> Aparillo is one of the coolest things I’ve played with in a while. Sooooo good.



@Dirtgrain and @whinecellar called it in posts #2 (!!) and #4 in this thread.



doctoremmet said:


> I don’t have this one. It sounds nice but also slightly gimmicky to my ears. As it is only 2 operator FM how good would this one be if you wanted to create sounds rather than weird arpeggiated stuff? Anyone use this for actual sound creation / “playable” sounds?


Whereas my snark and snobby remarks were WRONG.


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Yes, that is true to a certain extent. I have been using F.’Em for months now and I have programmed FM synths for the larger part of my life (since I guess 1987). And that helps. I JUST got Aparillo (using the current deal) and in terms of sound I am very impressed. It is also fun to find out how it works but there are quite a few very good and informative tutorials on YT. Play with it for a couple of hours and you’re golden. Sugar Bytes really seem to know how to make their synths fun to work with.


Could not ask for more great help, and most timely given Aparillo promo !! 
Just added to post re. Orbiter. Do you find it 'gimmicky' or truly useful across many day-to-day applications ?


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Could not ask for more great help, and most timely given Aparillo promo !!
> Just added to post re. Orbiter. Do you find it 'gimmicky' or truly useful across many day-to-day applications ?


For sound design purposes it is great. For day-to-day applications it can be dialed back quite a bit and be an excellent tool to inject more life into a patch. So a YES.


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> For sound design purposes it is great. For day-to-day applications it can be dialed back quite a bit and be an excellent tool to inject more life into a patch. So a YES.


Sincere thanks, Temme ! Really sidetracked with recent super deal Upgrade to K13U CE. 
Making space, extracting most desired content, getting back to mainstream flow _slowly. 

Regards


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Sincere thanks, Temme ! Really sidetracked with recent super deal Upgrade to K13U CE.
> Making space, extracting most desired content, getting back to mainstream flow _slowly.
> 
> Regards


My pleasure Sos. K13UCE! THAT is just an awesome collection of gorgeousness mate


----------



## LA68

Idk why, but I never really warmed up to the Sugar Bytes synths, with the exception of drum computer. Might give this one a spin again. Some pretty nice demos.

F'em seems so awesome in terms of specs. I'd buy this in a heartbeat if it didn't require to be activated online.


----------



## José Herring

Really love all the excitement, goodwill and online camaraderie my little innocent inquiry on FM synthesis has created.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet

Sometimes the 80s cheese factor of FM is just what you need…


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Sometimes the 80s cheese factor of FM is just what you need…



MAX 🧀 .......... yet today, Aparillo rocks !


----------



## doctoremmet

This German source publishes some of the web’s best and most elaborate tests on their website. This video is also good- FM synth comparison:



Contains cool demo song using all the patches shown. Starts around the 8:50 time mark…


----------



## doctoremmet

Vergleichstest: FM-Synthesizer Plug-ins wie Dexed, Bazille, Arturia DX V - AMAZONA.de


Vergleichstest Synthesizer FM-Plug-ins. Die besten Plugins FM im Test. Wie klingt Fm-Synthese. Plug-ins nach Yamaha DX7,




www.amazona.de


----------



## doctoremmet

And the winner is….

Eine Rangfolge aufzustellen fällt mir nicht leicht. Am Ende habe ich mich dazu entschieden, die Synths danach zu bewerten, wie sehr sie mich in ihren Bann gezogen haben und welche Möglichkeiten des Sounddesigns sie bieten. Den ersten Platz konnte somit nur das Sugar Bytes Aparillo Plug-in machen. So neu klang FM noch nie. Dicht gefolgt allerdings von u-he Bazille und Tone2 Nemesis 2, die beide auf dem zweiten Platz landen. Beeindruckt hat mich die Einfachheit der Programmierung und die Soundgewalt. Fast unerschöpfliche Möglichkeiten bietet Tracktion F.’em, allerdings muss man in diesen Synth auch viel Zeit investieren, möchte man ihn programmieren und nicht nur als Preset-Schleuder missbrauchen. Die Plätze 4, 5 und 6 werden schließlich von den traditionelleren Plug-ins mit Anlehnung am Yamaha DX7 belegt. Nicht, dass diese Plug-ins schlecht wären. Sie bieten aber im Jahr 2021 wenig Unerhörtes. Für Liebhaber und Besitzer eines Yamaha DX7 ist der Plogue Chipsynth OPS7 ein echter Geheimtipp, da Patches austauschbar sind. So kann man einen Sound bequem am Rechner designen, ihn in DAW-Produktionen einsetzen und anschließend mit auf die Bühne nehmen. Wer keinen DX7 besitzt, aber einfach mal in die Möglichkeiten der FM-Synthese reinschnuppern möchte, tut dies mit dem kostenlosen Dexed. Oder man nutzt Dexed einfach als Editor und Librarian für den betagten DX7.

Meine Rangfolge für die besten FM-Synth-Plug-ins lautet also:

Platz: Sugar Bytes Aparillo
Platz: u-he Bazille/Tone2 Nemesis 2
Platz: Tracktion F.’em
Platz: Arturia DX7 V
Platz: Plogue Chipsynth OPS7
Platz: Dexed


----------



## doctoremmet

And the winner is….

It's not easy for me to rank. In the end, I decided to rate the synths based on how much I was drawn to them and what sound design possibilities they offer. Only the Sugar Bytes Aparillo plug-in could take first place. FM has never sounded so new. However, closely followed by u-he Bazille and Tone2 Nemesis 2, both coming in second. I was impressed by the simplicity of the programming and the power of the sound. Tracktion F.'em offers almost inexhaustible possibilities, but you have to invest a lot of time in this synth if you want to program it and not just abuse it as a preset slingshot. Finally, places 4, 5 and 6 are occupied by the more traditional plug-ins inspired by the Yamaha DX7. Not that these plugins are bad. In 2021, however, they offer little that is unheard of. For lovers and owners of a Yamaha DX7, the Plogue Chipsynth OPS7 is a real insider tip, as patches are interchangeable. So you can conveniently design a sound on the computer, use it in DAW productions and then take it on stage. If you don't have a DX7 but just want to get a taste of the possibilities of FM synthesis, you can do so with the free Dexed. Or you can simply use Dexed as an editor and librarian for the aged DX7.

So my ranking for the best FM synth plugins is:

1st place: Sugar Bytes Aparillo
Place: u-he Bazille/Tone2 Nemesis 2
Place: Tracktion F.'em
Place: Arturia DX7 V
Place: Plogue Chipsynth OPS7
Place: Dexed

@sostenuto See? Aparillo even rules Germany!!


----------



## applegrovebard

gamma-ut said:


> Which is slightly ironic given that the main algorithm used by Yamaha is phase rather than frequency based.


I don't know if it's been linked to on this thread (apologies if it has) but here's an interesting snippet of conversation with Markus of Tone2 on this topic.


----------



## doctoremmet

applegrovebard said:


> I don't know if it's been linked to on this thread (apologies if it has) but here's an interesting snippet of conversation with Markus of Tone2 on this topic.



This synth has always been a bit of an enigma to me. Thanks for the link.


----------



## doctoremmet

And another one dropped.






BLEASS Omega


Download For Mac & WindowsDownload for iPhone & iPad If you think FM Synthesis is complicated, it’s time to think again! BLEASS Omega places all of the sparkle, character, nuance and dynamic expressiveness of FM Synthesis at your fingertips, and…




www.bleass.com





“BLEASS Omega places all of the sparkle, character, nuance and dynamic expressiveness of FM Synthesis at your fingertips, and does away with the arcane programming interfaces so often associated with FM. Harnessing BLEASS’ signature GUI technology, creating and crafting sounds in Omega is not just easier than with other FM synths, it’s easy – PERIOD!”

Preliminary doctoremmet research notes:

4OP, 11 algorithms
MPE: slide and pressure
waveshaper for drive
multimode filter
2 LFOs
motion sequencer
FX: chorus | tremolo | delay | reverb

Intro-price €49 (€69) through February

IOS version available as well ($9.99)



















(Paid?) promotion:


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> And another one dropped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BLEASS Omega
> 
> 
> Download For Mac & WindowsDownload for iPhone & iPad If you think FM Synthesis is complicated, it’s time to think again! BLEASS Omega places all of the sparkle, character, nuance and dynamic expressiveness of FM Synthesis at your fingertips, and…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bleass.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “BLEASS Omega places all of the sparkle, character, nuance and dynamic expressiveness of FM Synthesis at your fingertips, and does away with the arcane programming interfaces so often associated with FM. Harnessing BLEASS’ signature GUI technology, creating and crafting sounds in Omega is not just easier than with other FM synths, it’s easy – PERIOD!”
> 
> Preliminary doctoremmet research notes:
> 
> 4OP, 11 algorithms
> MPE: slide and pressure
> waveshaper for drive
> multimode filter
> 2 LFOs
> motion sequencer
> FX: chorus | tremolo | delay | reverb
> 
> Intro-price €49 (€69) through February
> 
> IOS version available as well ($9.99)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Paid?) promotion:



Looks very good, quite a few videos on it as Bleass is a very popular developer on iOS (currently watching the one from Venus Theory). When I get the time to play with FM this would probably be on the list of app to use as Bleass are often very good user experience plus it is on iOS so I can play around with it on my iPad Pro.


----------



## doctoremmet

Markrs said:


> Looks very good, quite a few videos on it as Bleass is a very popular developer on iOS (currently watching the one from Venus Theory). When I get the time to play with FM this would probably be on the list of app to use as Bleass are often very good user experience plus it is on iOS so I can play around with it on my iPad Pro.


Yes, I am definitely grabbing this on IOS. I love the UI (not based on any actual experience yet, but it looks good). I am also having fun with Imaginando’s FRMS on IOS, Mark. I really recommend it.


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> Yes, I am definitely grabbing this on IOS. I love the UI (not based on any actual experience yet, but it looks good). I am also having fun with Imaginando’s FRMS on IOS, Mark. I really recommend it.


I have that over of the first iOS music apps I ever purchased. Imaginando's apps are very nice though I find the PC/Mac versions are quite pricey. DRC is also very nice, they also have a great YouTube series recreating various synth parts on songs using it (155 videos)




And quite a few videos on FRMS


----------



## doctoremmet

Markrs said:


> Imaginando's apps are very nice though I find the PC/Mac versions are quite pricey.


Yes, too expensive for me to pull the trigger. Agreed.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Omega definitely looks relatively easy to use, especially for modulation the frequency modulation. It'a good intro price too.

This looked a lot like Venus Theory's paid videos (like the PSP or AAS ones) except that it was branded as Venus Theory, so I'm pretty sure that it was unpaid. The alternative is that my opinion of Venus Theory would be lowered, and I can't countenance that.

It's not for me right now, though I'll interested to hear how others get on with it.


----------



## doctoremmet

After my recent Aparillo purchase I can honestly say… FM wise I’m satisfied. Wait, except maybe… I still want Xils’ Kaox. But the sales price hasn’t yet been good enough. But I do think this Omega could hit some sort of sweetspot. But for quick results I usually turn to either Operator or Flow Motion (a true hidden gem, with the neatest patch flip sequencer ever invented, but -as usual- I digress). So atm Omega would be overkill for me.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> After my recent Aparillo purchase I can honestly say… FM wise I’m satisfied. Wait, except maybe… I still want Xils’ Kaox. But the sales price hasn’t yet been good enough. But I do think this Omega could hit some sort of sweetspot. But for quick results I usually turn to either Operator or Flow Motion (a true hidden gem, with the neatest patch flip sequencer ever invented, but -as usual- I digress). So atm Omega would be overkill for me.


One can never have too much kill.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Bee_Abney said:


> One can never have too much kill.


You need to overkill your overkill.


----------



## shawnsingh

What about buzz kill... Surely that would cross a line into "to much kill"?


----------



## doctoremmet

shawnsingh said:


> What about buzz kill... Surely that would cross a line into "to much kill"?


Even buzz has an optimum. In this song by Buzz Ficks that optimum was reached:


----------



## Bee_Abney

shawnsingh said:


> What about buzz kill... Surely that would cross a line into "to much kill"?


An elementary error, there, I'm afraid. With buzz kill, it is not the amount of kill that is a problem, but rather the, shall we say, distribution of the kill. It is not because there is too much kill that killing mockingbirds is bad. You've just killed in the wrong order. First the people, then the mockingbirds.

Buzz does have an optimum, though. And killing it can, indeed, be the right thing to do. Judging when and where is a difficult matter but, again, it is not a quantity issue. Sooner or later, there will - and should - be total kill. But finesse, always kill with finesse!

(I would ask that this post not be presented in evidence against me.)


----------



## D Halgren




----------



## Bee_Abney

D Halgren said:


>



A classic song about GAS.


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> A classic song about GAS.


Manchester’s finest. ❤️

When GAS ends in disappointment:


----------



## doctoremmet

You make me sound like dirt | and I’m hurt


----------



## Crowe

Bee_Abney said:


> An elementary error, there, I'm afraid. With buzz kill, it is not the amount of kill that is a problem, but rather the, shall we say, distribution of the kill. It is not because there is too much kill that killing mockingbirds is bad. You've just killed in the wrong order. First the people, then the mockingbirds.
> 
> Buzz does have an optimum, though. And killing it can, indeed, be the right thing to do. Judging when and where is a difficult matter but, again, it is not a quantity issue. Sooner or later, there will - and should - be total kill. But finesse, always kill with finesse!
> 
> (I would ask that this post not be presented in evidence against me.)


For a second I thought I was reading a Douglas Adams passage.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Gosh! Dirty doctors and Adams-lite absurdism, a great band and at least one of the greatest songs of recent decades. It must be Saturday!

All we need now is a good FM synth band to play us out! I've got Bazille and a fistful of virtual patch leads, who's in?


----------



## Crowe

I've got FM8 and no idea what I'm doing.

So of course, I'm in.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Crowe said:


> I've got FM8 and no idea what I'm doing.
> 
> So of course, I'm in.


That's so punk!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Crowe said:


> For a second I thought I was reading a Douglas Adams passage.


Adams had a real gift. It seems to have made him pretty unhappy, as he found writing such a painful business. Lucky for us he kept going. I did not and shall not interpret your comparison as one of quality! I'm not that delusional yet!


----------



## Whywhy

New sound set for Tracktion F.em : 
Cinematic Vistas by Yuli Yolo & Alessandro Cardinale:


----------



## doctoremmet

Whywhy said:


> New sound set for Tracktion F.em :
> Cinematic Vistas by Yuli Yolo & Alessandro Cardinale:



That is awesome news @Whywhy

Link:









Cinematic Vistas Expansion Pack (for F.'em)


Open the door to F.'ems cinematic potential with this versatile expansion pack from Yuli Yolo and Alessandro Cardinale. Requires a F.'em license. Sold separately. View other purchase options Install directions: Must install using Download Manager (v1.0.8 or later)




marketplace.tracktion.com





Update: whoa / sounds good


----------



## grabauf

The factory presets where not so convincing, but this sounds awesome!


----------



## José Herring

Finally downloaded Aparillo. Amazing sounds for sure.


----------



## RodStaples

The new Korg OpSix Native is the one that does it for me.


----------



## doctoremmet

Markrs said:


> I have that over of the first iOS music apps I ever purchased. Imaginando's apps are very nice though I find the PC/Mac versions are quite pricey. DRC is also very nice, they also have a great YouTube series recreating various synth parts on songs using it (155 videos)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And quite a few videos on FRMS



This just in:






I have this synth on IOS and it is quite cool (as we discussed earlier). The developer does have a cool YT channel, where he does a lot of field recording in order to create new sounds for FRMS. I may pick it up this time…


----------



## sostenuto

In Cart. Interesting for sure.


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> In Cart. Interesting for sure.



It sounds like a great alternative to fuzzy analog sounds for hybrid music.

But I have more than enough tools that I need to learn better before trying this!


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> This just in:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have this synth on IOS and it is quite cool (as we discussed earlier). The developer does have a cool YT channel, where he does a lot of field recording in order to create new sounds for FRMS. I may pick it up this time…


That is a tempting price as I think the normal price is too high for a granular engine. If I am honest $29 would have felt a more comfortable purchase for it, but I do really like it on iOS.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Markrs said:


> That is a tempting price as I think the normal price is too high for a granular engine. If I am honest $29 would have felt a more comfortable purchase for it, but I do really like it on iOS.



*Cheapskate!*

What? No, I didn't say anything.


----------



## sostenuto

Markrs said:


> That is a tempting price as I think the normal price is too high for a granular engine. If I am honest $29 would have felt a more comfortable purchase for it, but I do really like it on iOS.


Luv #29, yet $39. still comfy versus Aparillo @ $99. _ s_urely that great APD promo will come back around before too much longer !_ 😪 
Admittedly weak sorting in-depth granular-synth detail. 😳


----------



## cel4145

sostenuto said:


> Luv #29, yet $39. still comfy versus Aparillo @ $99. _ s_urely that great APD promo will come back around before too much longer !_ 😪
> Admittedly weak sorting in-depth granular-synth detail. 😳



If you find yourself in a moment of weakness and can't wait, I think Best Service may have the best price right now. A tiny bit of savings https://www.bestservice.com/aparillo.html


----------



## flampton

Thomann is consistently cheapest (at least for the US) across a number of software companies. 

e.g. Aparillo is $86









Sugar Bytes Aparillo


Synthesizer Plugin (Download) FM synthesizer with 16 voices, Different FM complexity and ratio modes, Formant-shifting, wave-folding and -shifting, Multi-mode filter with spacializer, 2 Networked LFOs with S + H and gravity, Orbiter for...




www.thomannmusic.com





Even their Best Service prices are better than Best Service, lol. Not sure how they get away with it, maybe it's the exchange rate???


----------



## spektralisk

Actually the best price I saw for Aparillo was quite recently at https://audioplugin.deals for $39 afair.


----------



## doctoremmet

spektralisk said:


> Actually the best price I saw for Aparillo was quite recently at https://audioplugin.deals for $39 afair.


Correct. First week of january, post #344 in this thread.


----------



## doctoremmet

starts up FRMS on IOS
taps hamburger menu
notices Store
sees:






🙀


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> starts up FRMS on IOS
> taps hamburger menu
> notices Store
> sees:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 🙀



Well, you do need more saxophones...


----------



## tressie5

I've been playing with an FM VST I acquired recently. It's called Wiggle. I'd touched it before (last year) but wasn't impressed. The thing is, I was looking for something specific (morphing ability) and I thought Wiggle would fit the bill. Come to find out, I was using it improperly. Now that I'm experimenting with it again, it's a wonderful sounding 4 osc synth with numerous possibilities beyond morphing.


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> I've been playing with an FM VST I acquired recently. It's called Wiggle. I'd touched it before (last year) but wasn't impressed. The thing is, I was looking for something specific (morphing ability) and I thought Wiggle would fit the bill. Come to find out, I was using it improperly. Now that I'm experimenting with it again, it's a wonderful sounding 4 osc synth with numerous possibilities beyond morphing.



That looks really interesting. Thanks for mentioning it.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I spent some quality time today discovering the vast amount of patches available on the net for the *Plogue : Chipsynth-OPS 7* (DX7) emulation synth. 

It was a lot of fun editing this FM synth by Plogue, and loading in many banks of classic DX7 sounds, and then editing them, a great way to learn FM Synthesis by analyzing the patches, and having an A and B patch in OPS 7 adds a lot of creative sound layering possibilities.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## doctoremmet

Simon Peter's Mini-Dexed Crams Eight Simulated Yahama DX7 Synths Into a Single Raspberry Pi - Hackster.io


Running bare-metal without an underlying operating system, Mini-Dexed really squeezes the most out of a Raspberry Pi.



www.hackster.io


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Simon Peter's Mini-Dexed Crams Eight Simulated Yahama DX7 Synths Into a Single Raspberry Pi - Hackster.io
> 
> 
> Running bare-metal without an underlying operating system, Mini-Dexed really squeezes the most out of a Raspberry Pi.
> 
> 
> 
> www.hackster.io




I did not understand very much of the article, but it does sound intriguing.


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> I did not understand very much of the article, but it does sound intriguing.


You can now basically build your own little hardware faux Yamaha TX816 with off-the-shelf Raspberry Pi hardware for a couple of tenners. The equivalent of 8 stacked DX7s. Cool.


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> Simon Peter's Mini-Dexed Crams Eight Simulated Yahama DX7 Synths Into a Single Raspberry Pi - Hackster.io
> 
> 
> Running bare-metal without an underlying operating system, Mini-Dexed really squeezes the most out of a Raspberry Pi.
> 
> 
> 
> www.hackster.io



We must have very similar youtube subscriptions and watching patterns, as I watched that the other day when it got recommended in my feed!


----------



## doctoremmet

Markrs said:


> We must have very similar youtube subscriptions and watching patterns, as I watched that the other day when it got recommended in my feed!


I can’t say I’m amazed Mark


----------



## Bee_Abney

Nerds!


----------



## doctoremmet

Thanks for the compliment Bee


----------



## flampton

For those who want FM synthesis without the FM synth

BLEASS PHASE MUTANT 





BLEASS Phase Mutant


Download for Mac & WindowsDownload for iPhone & iPad Developing BLEASS Omega gave us the perfect opportunity to take a deep dive into the fascinating sonic capabilities of FM synthesis, and this sparked an innovative idea: A plugin that can…




www.bleass.com





BLEASS Phase Mutant harnesses the principles of frequency modulation (FM) and applies them to any input signal. The input signal can be modulated by itself, can be modulated by a generated signal, or can modulate a generated signal. Each option opens up swathes of fascinating and complex sonic textures.

BLEASS Phase Mutant offers three *Algorithms:*


Oscillator Modulates Input
Input Modulates Oscillator
Input Modulates Itself
_________________________________________________________________

I'm going to give the demo a go this week and see what mayhem it can provide


----------



## Bee_Abney

F'em and all Tracktion products are on sale at the moment at Audio Deluxe (30-40% off), for those who may be interested. I'd like to try F'em some day.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> F'em and all Tracktion products are on sale at the moment at Audio Deluxe (30-40% off), for those who may be interested. I'd like to try F'em some day.




Will the nuns be watching?


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Will the nuns be watching?


Participation is not optional.


----------



## doctoremmet

So, little FM update… found a cheap 2nd hand Kaox ad on KVR and bought the synth a while ago. Fantastic FM synth. My everlasting love for John Chowning style FM / phase modulation / phase distortion synthesis was too strong to resist the opportunity.

Anyway. Came here to post this:



by fellow forum member @juliandoe - looks like a fun free one for REAKTOR owners.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> So, little FM update… found a cheap 2nd hand Kaox ad on KVR and bought the synth a while ago. Fantastic FM synth. My everlasting love for John Chowning style FM / phase modulation / phase distortion synthesis was too strong to resist the opportunity.
> 
> Anyway. Came here to post this:
> 
> 
> 
> by fellow forum member @juliandoe - looks like a fun free one for REAKTOR owners.



It's genuinely amazing. The presets are so beautiful. The voice I'm not so sure about, but adding some of Toys sounds really good.

I flicked through the video quickly, but it seems like it is a demonstration of the sounds. I'd really like some kind of instructional walkthrough for this. Then I checked the Reaktor library entry, to find this video, which is just for Canibella (not Bella-FM) but as that is a similar FM synth, it should be helpful for this too.


----------



## Bee_Abney

This isn't properly mixed and done, or anything, just a bit of messing about; but here is a brief demo made with only Bella-FM, no external effects, no automation. You definitely lose some of the charm of the sounds with the MP3 format.


----------



## antret

flampton said:


> For those who want FM synthesis without the FM synth
> 
> BLEASS PHASE MUTANT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BLEASS Phase Mutant
> 
> 
> Download for Mac & WindowsDownload for iPhone & iPad Developing BLEASS Omega gave us the perfect opportunity to take a deep dive into the fascinating sonic capabilities of FM synthesis, and this sparked an innovative idea: A plugin that can…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bleass.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BLEASS Phase Mutant harnesses the principles of frequency modulation (FM) and applies them to any input signal. The input signal can be modulated by itself, can be modulated by a generated signal, or can modulate a generated signal. Each option opens up swathes of fascinating and complex sonic textures.
> 
> BLEASS Phase Mutant offers three *Algorithms:*
> 
> 
> Oscillator Modulates Input
> Input Modulates Oscillator
> Input Modulates Itself
> _________________________________________________________________
> 
> I'm going to give the demo a go this week and see what mayhem it can provide


Oh my… how did I miss this? I like some of the Bleass stuff, but this slipped by me! Thanks for pointing this out.


----------



## antret

Bee_Abney said:


> This isn't properly mixed and done, or anything, just a bit of messing about; but here is a brief demo made with only Bella-FM, no external effects, no automation. You definitely lose some of the charm of the sounds with the MP3 format.


There some sweet, sweet digital grit in there. Yum.


----------



## Bee_Abney

antret said:


> There some sweet, sweet digital grit in there. Yum.


I made a couple of the patches myself with, as with most things in life, no idea what I was doing. This synth is built to sound good whatever you do with it (except the optional vocal overtone, which might appeal to someone, but not me).


----------



## antret

Bee_Abney said:


> I made a couple of the patches myself with, as with most things in life, no idea what I was doing. This synth is built to sound good whatever you do with it (except the optional vocal overtone, which might appeal to someone, but not me).


Mmmm…. Sounds just how I like my FM synths…. Wide sweet spot. 

I’ve recently (re)discovered a simple little gem from DiscoDSP called OPL (https://www.discodsp.com/opl/). 2 Op FM synth with a few unusual waveforms to use. 

It seems it’s based of the chip in the sound blaster audio cards and some early gaming systems. EZ to get around and fun sounds to be had! Can also load SBI files found on the net. Instant preset collection.


----------



## Bee_Abney

antret said:


> Mmmm…. Sounds just how I like my FM synths…. Wide sweet spot.
> 
> I’ve recently (re)discovered a simple little gem from DiscoDSP called OPL (https://www.discodsp.com/opl/). 2 Op FM synth with a few unusual waveforms to use.
> 
> It seems it’s based of the chip in the sound blaster audio cards and some early gaming systems. EZ to get around and fun sounds to be had! Can also load SBI files found on the net. Instant preset collection.


That sounds lovely!


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


>



Gorgeous.

Have you ever considered making some videos specifically about FM synthesis? I hope very much that you aren't too held back by the sense of perfectionism and a (mistaken) sense that your work isn't good enough. You seem to be posting a lot more demos, and that is hugely welcome. But a few videos showing a little bit of your take on FM would be amazing. Even just a little showcase of F.'em. No pressure!

I've been thinking of making videos myself. I've decided that I don't want to appear in videos, either visually or my voice, until a) I'm officially retired (trying to get ill-health retirement can make you ill!) and b) I'm in a suitable emotional space. Or maybe never: I love what someone like Databroth does.


----------



## doctoremmet

I would love to. I have been fortunate to have access to an SY99 and a lot of Yamaha FM hardware as well as most current FM software synthesizers. Maybe a couple of demonstration videos could be fun.

Here’s a REALLY old tape recording of the SY, with its huge 512 kilobyte sample import (containing the Linndrum samples you hear). Quick idea I recorded in the SY’s internal sequencers. I think maybe apart from the FS1R this is the pinnacle of FM synthesis in many ways. (The synth, not this stupid recording that is only cool because it still exists hehe and was made more than 25 years ago). Bee, I notice I must have put the link somewhere in here before, you’ve already commented before haha.









Track No22 - TA 0


All SY99 (with Linndrum samples). Composed by TS.




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## sostenuto

What about IK Syntronik Instruments 99 @ $50. ? Where does it fall on list of SY99 VSTi ?


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> I would love to. I have been fortunate to have access to an SY99 and a lot of Yamaha FM hardware as well as most current FM software synthesizers. Maybe a couple of demonstration videos could be fun.
> 
> Here’s a REALLY old tape recording of the SY, with its huge 512 kilobyte sample import (containing the Linndrum samples you hear). Quick idea I recorded in the SY’s internal sequencers. I think maybe apart from the FS1R this is the pinnacle of FM synthesis in many ways. (The synth, not this stupid recording that is only cool because it still exists hehe and was made more than 25 years ago). Bee, I notice I must have put the link somewhere in here before, you’ve already commented before haha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Track No22 - TA 0
> 
> 
> All SY99 (with Linndrum samples). Composed by TS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soundcloud.app.goo.gl


Actually, I think I found it on Soundcloud directly. In one of the rare moments where I actually explore what's on there!


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> What about IK Syntronik Instruments 99 @ $50. ? Where does it fall on list of SY99 VSTi ?


Isn't that a sample instrument? Can it actually do FM synthesis? Or put another way: I have no idea whatsoever!!!


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Isn't that a sample instrument? Can it actually do FM synthesis? Or put another way: I have no idea whatsoever!!!


Sure ! Recall long ago Doc Reply re. range of IK Syntronik. 😳


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Sure ! Recall long ago Doc Reply re. range of IK Syntronik. 😳


It contains samples of an actual SY99. So if you want to have a couple of well recorded patches from that synth under your fingers, it’s a pretty good package. You cannot however do any actual FM programming with it. 

But truly, much of the sound character of the SY is easily achievable with any half-decent 4 operator FM synth. The reason the SY77 and 99 are legendary in my book is the whole package of excellent hardware, the SPX effect units that were in there and the workstation stuff.

Nowadays, any DAW has effects that sound as good or better, and we’d all go instantly batshit crazy if we had to work with a late 1980s design hardware sequencer. Oh, and in terms of FM synthesis: the fact you can use AWM samples in an operator sounds cooler than it… well…. sounds haha.

Believe me, TL;DR. An SY99 is a terrific synth, but I think we can all suffice with a decent 4 or 6 OP softsynth and largely replicate all of the patches nowadays.


----------



## grabauf

f'em is on massive sale for $29 at Audiodeluxe at the moment! 









Tracktion F.'em


Black Friday Sale 50% Off One of the most powerful FM synths ever made Video of Tracktion F.'em Synth Patch Demo F.’em is one of the most powerful FM Synthesizers ever made, taking advantage of modern CPU resources to process its freely configurable 11 operator matrix. It’s a hybrid...




www.audiodeluxe.com


----------



## doctoremmet

grabauf said:


> f'em is on massive sale for $29 at Audiodeluxe at the moment!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tracktion F.'em
> 
> 
> Black Friday Sale 50% Off One of the most powerful FM synths ever made Video of Tracktion F.'em Synth Patch Demo F.’em is one of the most powerful FM Synthesizers ever made, taking advantage of modern CPU resources to process its freely configurable 11 operator matrix. It’s a hybrid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.audiodeluxe.com


Incredible deal. Grab it.


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Incredible deal. Grab it.


Wow !! Downloading now. Followed your many posts. THX much ! 👏🏻


----------



## doctoremmet

You now basically own the heir of the mighty Yamaha FS1R. Enjoy!


----------



## jbuhler

doctoremmet said:


> Incredible deal. Grab it.


Do I want this even though FM synthesis gives me a headache? I’m managing to make headway with other forms of synthesis, but FM so far still eludes me. (I mean I know how it works in theory but dialing anything in always feels like a complete crapshoot.)


----------



## kevinh

grabauf said:


> f'em is on massive sale for $29 at Audiodeluxe at the moment!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tracktion F.'em
> 
> 
> Black Friday Sale 50% Off One of the most powerful FM synths ever made Video of Tracktion F.'em Synth Patch Demo F.’em is one of the most powerful FM Synthesizers ever made, taking advantage of modern CPU resources to process its freely configurable 11 operator matrix. It’s a hybrid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.audiodeluxe.com


This feels like a glitch…don’t wait


----------



## doctoremmet

jbuhler said:


> Do I want this even though FM synthesis gives me a headache? I’m managing to make headway with other forms of synthesis, but FM so far still eludes me. (I mean I know how it works in theory but dialing anything in always feels like a complete crapshoot.)


James. Honestly? No. This is more like a gem for people who have “clicked” with stuff like DX7s and FM8. You have to have a grasp of how John Chowning’s vision of FM / phase modulation synthesis works.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Crowe

kevinh said:


> This feels like a glitch…don’t wait








Pretty sure there's no glitch involved .
Good deal, still.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Crowe said:


> Pretty sure there's no glitch involved .
> Good deal, still.


Interestingly, their preset packs are $50 each. Maybe they want to expand their user base before expanding their preset range! At any rate, it is very likely that sales of F'em were stalling. I think it has been out just long enough for the relatively early adopters to have bought it and potentially new customers to get distracted by other releases.


----------



## doctoremmet

The cinematic pack by @Whywhy Yuli Yolo is excellent. The ones that were released last week -admittedly at first glance- appeared to have an alarmingly high cheese factor. Which could be an entirely desired outcome of course… but what we (well: I) want, expect and need is FM that sounds as brutal as on this track (I know, I’ve posted this before):



This sounds disrespectfully DIGITAL without any shame.


----------



## shawnsingh

at 20:45 10:50 is one of the more intuitive and practical perspectives on FM that I've seen. It doesn't explain what FM is, plenty of other videos for that, but jumps straight into some useful basic examples and techniques that might help newcomers figure out how to explore FM on their own.


----------



## Bee_Abney

shawnsingh said:


> at 20:45 is one of the more intuitive and practical perspectives on FM that I've seen. It doesn't explain what FM is, plenty of other videos for that, but jumps straight into some useful basic examples and techniques that might help newcomers figure out how to explore FM on their own.



Thanks, this looks very useful - and has a very funny beginning!


----------



## shawnsingh

Actually, correction, The FM discussion starts at 10:50


----------



## Alchemedia

FYI, Native Instruments FM8 is currently $12.42 at Plugin Boutique.


----------



## jbuhler

doctoremmet said:


> James. Honestly? No. This is more like a gem for people who have “clicked” with stuff like DX7s and FM8. You have to have a grasp of how John Chowning’s vision of FM / phase modulation synthesis works.


Thanks!


----------



## doctoremmet

New f.’em soundpack:


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> New f.’em soundpack:



I knew it! It's the cheap printer, expensive ink business model!

They know very well that barely one in a thousand will ever learn to program the thing for themselves!


----------



## doctoremmet

I am in the process of making a few presets myself. I’m more of an expensive hardware / free ink kind of guy myself, so bear with me. Looking to share the patches eventually.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> I am in the process of making a few presets myself. I’m more of an expensive hardware / free ink kind of guy myself, so bear with me. Looking to share the patches eventually.


That would be very welcome, thank you!


----------



## AmbientMile

For you FM types

NI Blog: Top free Reaktor FM Synths


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

lastmessiah said:


> I haven’t. I have Collective and Biotek which have decent FM capabilities in their own right, but you can only modulate the levels and there are fixed algorithms. I also use Bitwig Studio and even that is limited in FM (PM) compared to F’em. Probably the most unique FM synth I have is Cypher 2 which is sort of an analog emulation of true FM.


What about the Grid in Bitwig? 

Feel like I should actually try out the FM capabilities in synths I already have---Biotek2, Lion, Cypher2, Zebra 2, Bitwig, etc.... 

Lion is a bit like "cheap hardware, no ink". Too bad because the presets for Byome were great and the modulation possibilities seem pretty deep. 

Wonder if this $29 sale will be a one-off. Looks like they usually just do 50% off. Of course they could always shift to more frequent $29 sales....


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

doctoremmet said:


> There’s also this “light” version:



Computer Music included this (along with Zebra CM) in their free early pandemic bundle (no longer available for free):









Download 90 CM Plugins For FREE Until October 31st


Music Technology Show 2020 is giving away over 8,600 samples and 90 popular VST plugins for free until October 31st, 2020. MusicRadar announced that everyone can download 8 GB of audio content and 90 plugins for free during the Music Technology Show 2020. Think of it as a virtual “goody bag”...




bedroomproducersblog.com


----------



## X-Bassist

Bee_Abney said:


> I knew it! It's the cheap printer, expensive ink business model!
> 
> They know very well that barely one in a thousand will ever learn to program the thing for themselves!


Ha! I always refer to this printer/ink scenario but unfortunately it’s changed. The cost of printers has doubled/tripled yet the ink is still expensive 😂 The $100 printer era is dead.


----------



## kgdrum

X-Bassist said:


> Ha! I always refer to this printer/ink scenario but unfortunately it’s changed. The cost of printers has doubled/tripled yet the ink is still expensive 😂 The $100 printer era is dead.




True I tried to replace a great $99 Canon printer that died after about 10 years with another Canon printer last month. The cheapest one that I could find was actually close to $300 . I got it and quickly determined it was junk and immediately sent it back to Amazon.
So I’m still looking for a decent reasonably priced printer…………
Getting back to the topic that soundset sounds really nice but yeah it’s a bit pricey,I would never pay $50 for it even $35 on sale it a bit of a stretch imo.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

kgdrum said:


> True I tried to replace a great $99 Canon printer that died after about 10 years with another Canon printer last month. The cheapest one that I could find was actually close to $300 . I got it and quickly determined it was junk and immediately sent it back to Amazon.
> So I’m still looking for a decent reasonably priced printer…………
> Getting back to the topic that soundset sounds really nice but yeah it’s a bit pricey,I would never pay $50 for it even $35 on sale it a bit of a stretch imo.


They did a "50% off sitewide" sale last Black Friday (Tracktion that is, not Canon or Amazon...). 

Do they allow for resale of the sound packs or are you stuck with them after you buy them? Could be a silver lining to the high base price---even with the $15 Tracktion license transfer fee you could probably recoup at least some of the cost if you buy during BF. OTOH IDK if they use any copy protection on the preset packs---I'd guess probably not---and if not they probably don't allow sound pack resale?


----------



## Bee_Abney

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> They did a "50% off sitewide" sale last Black Friday (Tracktion that is, not Canon or Amazon...).
> 
> Do they allow for resale of the sound packs or are you stuck with them after you buy them? Could be a silver lining to the high base price---even with the $15 Tracktion license transfer fee you could probably recoup at least some of the cost if you buy during BF. OTOH IDK if they use any copy protection on the preset packs---I'd guess probably not---and if not they probably don't allow sound pack resale?


It might get linked to your license for the synth.

UVI allow you to sell their soundpacks. I think it can work if they use a downloader that requires a license.


----------



## Living Fossil

Regarding the F*em synth:
I downloaded the demo last week and was quite astonished by the – as I think – rather poor quality of the presets.
OTOH it offers the possiblity of doing FM synthesis with (the user's own) samples, which is something I always wanted to do in the early 90ies...
Then again: I realize I don't have the time to dive deep into learning another synth.

Therefore, a question arises: does anybody have (or knows) some interesting examples of F'em doing good sounds that involve FMed samples? (I've searched on YT, but without success).


----------



## dcoscina

I just ordered the Yamaha DX Reface which is a helluva fun synth. It's only 4 operators but sounds great. There is a super awesome community that contributes new patches as well.


----------



## doctoremmet

dcoscina said:


> I just ordered the Yamaha DX Reface which is a helluva fun synth. It's only 4 operators but sounds great. There is a super awesome community that contributes new patches as well.


Congrats Dave. It is one of the coolest FM synths ever made. In many ways 4OP FM is the sweetspot!


----------



## dcoscina

doctoremmet said:


> Congrats Dave. It is one of the coolest FM synths ever made. In many ways 4OP FM is the sweetspot!


yeah it arrived today and I love it. SoundMondo is a great site for uploading and downloading user sounds. Plus it has a graphic editor that makes programming a snap

I'm working on a Goldsmith-styled LEGEND score for a friend's film and I needed FM synthesis hardware as I want to have it on the stage mixed with the live group as Jerry did in the 80s.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Before demoing F'em I listened through the preset playthroughs and when I heard one I liked wrote down the name, watched how they were playing it, and took notes.

Many of the factory presets rely heavily on the dual XY pads. It's also annoying that after I turn on the global MPE in F'em's settings I still have to turn on the MPE in each unmuted layer each time I open a new preset.

Found myself really wishing I was using a touchscreen---and that my Lightpad M in XY mode wasn't malfunctioning (ghost notes in the lower left... bleh; guess I'll try switching it to slider mode and remapping it in Bitwig).


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Guess if I buy F'em I should also buy TouchOSC to play the dual XY... that or buy a touchscreen laptop. Other options would be to do one XY pad with mouse and the other with sliders (or for monophonic playing (or if using multiple instances in multichannel mode) to Seaboard slide and press or pitch bend , or record one XY then go back and record automation for the other. Or draw in all the automation....

As a Seaboard player it seems so much easier to just use the presets designed designed for 5D touch in Cypher2 and Equator2.

IDK why F'em doesn't allow per-note Timbre or Press to map to other cc like the XY pad. More chaos maybe....


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Living Fossil said:


> Regarding the F*em synth:
> I downloaded the demo last week and was quite astonished by the – as I think – rather poor quality of the presets.
> OTOH it offers the possiblity of doing FM synthesis with (the user's own) samples, which is something I always wanted to do in the early 90ies...
> Then again: I realize I don't have the time to dive deep into learning another synth.
> 
> Therefore, a question arises: does anybody have (or knows) some interesting examples of F'em doing good sounds that involve FMed samples? (I've searched on YT, but without success).


Not in F'em, but using the Grid in Bitwig:



"most of the sounds that we consider fm are actually phase modulation, not frequency modulation"

Ph'em?...

Reddit comments: 

"time-stretched audio samples as FM source is game changer idea for me."

"considering it’s not really modelling FM but doing audio rate or at best supersampled modulation... no. [...] modulating a parameter at audio rate or even with a modest supersampling factor will never create as good a result as a dedicated algorithm for FM."

"you can do actual FM modulation just by using pitch input on the oscillators instead of phase input, but these are interpolated for pitch scale, so for linear modulation you have to put together some math modules for scale correction."





User generated Bitwig grid FM presets without VSTs:






Bitwig Presets | Bitwiggers


Bitwiggers is the largest collection of Bitwig Presets and Clips, and allows users to quickly upload, download, and review Bitwig Presets and Clips.




bitwiggers.com





With VSTs:






Bitwig Preset: grid - fm bass hard (express yourself) | Bitwiggers


grid - fm bass hard (express yourself) is a Bitwig Preset for the Poly Grid Device.




bitwiggers.com









Bitwig Preset: grid - fm bass hard | Bitwiggers


grid - fm bass hard is a Bitwig Preset for the Poly Grid Device.




bitwiggers.com




- use OTT






Bitwig Preset: grid - fm synth | Bitwiggers


grid - fm synth is a Bitwig Preset for the Poly Grid Device.




bitwiggers.com




- uses Reaktor with Grid


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Tracktion support on whether sound expansions can be resold:

"It depends on how and where you purchased, but typically it will qualify for a transfer."

Asked for clarification about "where"---could that mean that F'em bought through Audiodeluxe (only place with the $29 sale) is NFR? Hmm....

Now all the F'em expansions are on sale for $35 (each) at Tracktion and some third-party sellers.


----------



## Bee_Abney

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Tracktion support on whether sound expansions can be resold:
> 
> "It depends on how and where you purchased, but typically it will qualify for a transfer."
> 
> Asked for clarification about "where"---could that mean that F'em bought through Audiodeluxe (only place with the $29 sale) is NFR? Hmm....
> 
> Now all the F'em expansions are on sale for $35 (each) at Tracktion and some third-party sellers.


Thanks for reporting back about that. Without a stated policy that they can be held to, this basically means that transfers of sound expansions is at their discretion. Which doesn't mean that they won't try to be helpful.


----------



## sostenuto

Cinematic Vistas purchase pending. 
Producer Keys _ distant option. 
Others _ niche > meh. 

Asking for F.'m guru comment re. these expansions _ general /longer-term basis. THX


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Cinematic Vistas purchase pending.
> Producer Keys _ distant option.
> Others _ niche > meh.
> 
> Asking for F.'m guru comment re. these expansions _ general /longer-term basis. THX


I love the way you've linked niche and meh!!


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

sostenuto said:


> Cinematic Vistas purchase pending.
> Producer Keys _ distant option.
> Others _ niche > meh.
> 
> Asking for F.'m guru comment re. these expansions _ general /longer-term basis. THX


Many of the presets in the Producer Keys demo on Youtube and in the factory library seem just slightly off in terms of timing and depth of modulation or effects, perhaps because of how they're being played (playthrough doesn't display whether dual XY pads or other are being used etc.).



First impression was that I liked the FM8 factory keys better:



But listening again to both of them at higher volumes the F'em patches gain a lot more and sound more interesting. Maybe a different (or additional) reverb or additional effects (or at lower volumes more compression or multiband compression etc.) would also help.... Guess the FM part of any FM8 preset can be reproduced almost exactly in F'em though, and made more complex and more interesting... apparently FM8 comes with an FM8 FX plugin that lets you run other sounds through its FX section.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

I've been wondering how Equator2 and Cypher2 (which I already have, and which have presets which already map MPE per-voice Timbre etc. to interesting parameters) compare (in Bitwig) with FM8 and F'em.

Equator2 seemed promising at first, since it has six oscillators and:

"You can use the FM engine to add modulation in these ways:

1. Traditional FM, by using sinewaves (or any VA waveform, for more complex sounds)
2. FM a VA waveform with a sample
3. FM wavetable with a wavetable
4. FM wavetable with a sample.

I just tried modulating a sine waveform with a Nylon Guitar sample. Sounds so fat! Like a complex DX7 sound that would require all 6 operators.

Than, you can add ring-modulation to the same combination of sounds."

OTOH:

"it has some limited cross-oscillator FM capabilities. But it doesn't really go front-and-centre with this.
Cross-osc stuff really needs oversampling to sound good (especially if the oscs you're XMing have complex harmonics
and even inharmonics to begin with - like wavetable, granular, samples...), and with Equator2 we focused on
maximum depth and lushness at 1x."









KVR Forum: Roli: Equator 2 is here ! - Page 24 - Instruments Forum


KVR Audio Forum - Roli: Equator 2 is here ! - Page 24 - Instruments Forum




www.kvraudio.com





It looks like Equator2 doesn't have oversampling (though I hope they add it in a future update...). Of course it can load multisamples of oversampled FM synthesis....

Cypher2 has maximum 8x oversampling (though 8x "is only possible in projects using a maximum sample rate of 48kHz or lower").



Summa said:


> In case of an VA don't get one that works with analog FM emulation only unless you want to use to add a bit dirt to the sound, digital FM aka Phase Modulation is a lot easier to predict, even more convenient than linear FM.


Does that include Cypher2? "Cypher2 includes three analog-modeled oscillators... and thru-zero FM which keeps its tuning over the span of the keyboard."


----------



## doctoremmet

Cypher 2 is one of the best FM synthesizers I know. It sounds great and can do all the good stuff that FM has to offer. And it works great with MPE controllers of course. I hope Luminary, the company that owns and runs ROLI these days, will keep it around / current / updated. The synth really deserves that.

I think Summa was trying to differentiate between FM as a modulation option in a subtractive synthesizer and “true” FM synthesis, such as a DX7, so basically “the John Chowning variant” of FM. Which is what this thread is all about.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

doctoremmet said:


> Cypher 2 is one of the best FM synthesizers I know. It sounds great and can do all the good stuff that FM has to offer. And it works great with MPE controllers of course. I hope Luminary, the company that owns and runs ROLI these days, will keep it around / current / updated. The synth really deserves that.



Roli has kept on releasing Cypher2 soundpacks at least, though they're also compatible with Roli Studio Player---most recently Deep House, Techno Morphing Sequences, and EDM Attack. Deep House definitely has some FM presets (FM Piano for example) and it sounds like the others do as well:







doctoremmet said:


> I think Summa was trying to differentiate between FM as a modulation option in a subtractive synthesizer and “true” FM synthesis, such as a DX7, so basically “the John Chowning variant” of FM. Which is what this thread is all about.


Is this Wiki accurate then?: "the DX7 internally uses a related computation known as phase modulation, which requires less CPU power. The trick: frequency modulation and phase modulation produce the exact same result, provided that the modulating waveform is a pure sine wave."









DX7


A digital synthesizer introduced by Yamaha in 1983. The DX7 was the first mass-produced synthesizer to use frequency modulation extensively, and the first digital synthesizer to sell in large quantities. It defined the direction of Yamaha's entire keyboard line for the next seven years after its...




electronicmusic.fandom.com





I guess this is what Summa was referring to:

"In most cases FM and PM [phase modulation] are mathematically equivalent, the difference being that in 'true' FM as you call it there are nasty drifting characteristics when you actually implement the algorithm. [...]

DC offset is the reason phase modulation was chosen over frequency modulation. That's the drifting [...] can rewrite the equation for an FM signal as a PM signal, but only if you consider the DC offset of the carrier to be zero. Real world oscillators can have DC offsets, so the designers of synths decided they wanted to keep the modulated signal at the same pitch and used phase modulation.

[...] FM and PM are identical for the same given carrier and modulator signals, but depending on how the synth generate the carrier and modulator it could be different by the time it gets to the FM or PM algorithm. For example if the signal is generated using a look up table, to use FM you need to use interpolation which has inherent error. [...] mathematically, the spectrum is equivalent (not accounting for that error) so using phase modulation in that case is better to achieve the expected result."



Cypher2 uses "analogue-style FM and other audio-rate modulation" but it's "thru-zero FM, which allows musical digital-style sounds rendered with precision engineered models of analogue oscillators". "thru-zero FM which keeps its tuning over the span of the keyboard" so that drift shouldn't be an issue I guess.


----------



## doctoremmet

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> The trick: frequency modulation and phase modulation produce the exact same result, provided that the modulating waveform is a pure sine wave."


The wiki is correct. What we call FM in Yamaha synths is actually phase modulation. Largely just semantics though. When we speak of “FM synthesis” we usually know exactly what we mean


----------



## doctoremmet

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Roli has kept on releasing Cypher2 soundpacks at least


Yes, and they at least decided to keep Cypher and Strobe ‘around’ when they decided to sell BFD. We’ll see what the future has in store for those two synths. FWIW, I quite love Equator and Cypher.


----------



## doctoremmet

If you appreciate your through-zero FM oscillators, there’s the most excellent Zeroscillator module for Voltage Modular, created by genius Mark Barton. I highly recommend that one.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Just noticed this is on sale for another 12 hours:



"$49.99 (normally $199.99)[...] FM TiNES 2 by Gospel Musicians

30GB of nothing but the best FM electric pianos from every era. This includes the best of Dynos, Tines, Crystal EPs, Bells, LA Grands, and CPs. Plus the richest of strings, lush pads, and atmospheric effects.

[...] includes advanced layering, amplification, layer stacking, programmable velocity/key zones and the inclusion of Overouloud™’s VKFX effects suite"









FM TiNES 2 by Gospel Musicians - Audio Plugin Deals


FM TiNES 2 is a sample and synth library containing over 30GB of the prettiest and most inspirational electric pianos ever heard. Now only $49.99 for a limited time




audioplugin.deals


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

"We have a concept here at Gospel Musicians... NWP. No Whack Patches. 90% of my patches are gonna be something that's inspiring. [...] If we create whack patches, we throw it away."


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Bee_Abney said:


> Thanks for reporting back about that. Without a stated policy that they can be held to, this basically means that transfers of sound expansions is at their discretion. Which doesn't mean that they won't try to be helpful.


Tracktion support got back to me:

Me: "wondering whether I would be able to resell the sound packs if I buy them from your web store and then after six months realize I'm not using the synth and decide to sell it. I'd probably buy them during a sale."

Support: "Ok sounds good. Yeah it's on a case by case basis typically only for direct orders on our site. If you purchase via a 3rd party, then you would need to work with them to resolve it."


----------



## Bee_Abney

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Tracktion support got back to me:
> 
> Me: "wondering whether I would be able to resell the sound packs if I buy them from your web store and then after six months realize I'm not using the synth and decide to sell it. I'd probably buy them during a sale."
> 
> Support: "Ok sounds good. Yeah it's on a case by case basis typically only for direct orders on our site. If you purchase via a 3rd party, then you would need to work with them to resolve it."


Well, there it is. You won’t know until you try, but they are signalling that they are inclined to be helpful. At least it isn’t a flat refusal.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

I was wrong about per-voice MPE Timbre, Pressure, etc. in F'em only being assignable to detune or pitch. They can also be assigned to the mod matrix or as Controllers. (Good too, because 6 instances of F'em using a preset with 8 FM operators were eating up 40% of my cpu... though 6 instances of a complex Bazille CM preset used very little cpu.)


----------



## whinecellar

Lode_Runner said:


> Sounds amazing. Really looking forward to the Kontakt version. I hope you can find a way to make it sound as good for PC users who don't have Mainstage.


Forgot about this thread, but yeah, happy to report that after a year’s work on it, I was finally able to release DX Dreams for Kontakt back in March. It was an insane amount of work to get it translated to a degree I am happy with, because to really model intricate DX sounds requires a ton of programming, velocity layers, disk space, and reliance on filters to mimic the wide variety of tonal possibilities of those sounds. And to be blunt, I’m not a fan of Kontakt’s filters compared to the Logic’s EXS24 (aka “Sampler” now).

But, after all that work, I have to say I'm thrilled with it. Because of the way it was all recorded through that iconic 80s processing, it’s the only way to get these sounds to this degree of accuracy. It’s sample based, so not legitimate FM synthesis of course, but if you want a time machine to the 80s and the sonic bliss of a DX5 & TX816 firing on all cylinders, this is the only way to get it. Unless you happen to have all that original hardware, an analog desk, tape, preamps, a Dimension D, and AMS reverb of course.

Here's the Kontakt version teaser:



I also did a little documentary of sorts, on the process of capturing all those iconic sounds via sampling. If you have nothing better to do, this might be a fun trip down a rabbit hole. Hope you enjoy it! It's broken up into chapters (see table of contents)


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

The Unfinished:

"It's taken me a while to get round to actually doing FM8,
mainly because FM synthesis is quite scary, so every time I've
opened up a copy of FM8 I've thought, 'yeah, maybe next time'. But I finally knuckled down and had a go, because I fancied testing myself and trying something new, and basically just thought let's see what I can get out of this synth that I can't necessarily get from other synths. So that's what I've tried to do."








The Unfinished | FM8 Akheron







www.theunfinished.co.uk





Currently half-off with code NOBBLYBOBBLY

He only did one sound-set for it though. Hope he does some for F'em (and Cypher2, Biotek2, Bazille...) eventually....


----------



## Lode_Runner

whinecellar said:


> Forgot about this thread, but yeah, happy to report that after a year’s work on it, I was finally able to release DX Dreams for Kontakt back in March. It was an insane amount of work to get it translated to a degree I am happy with, because to really model intricate DX sounds requires a ton of programming, velocity layers, disk space, and reliance on filters to mimic the wide variety of tonal possibilities of those sounds. And to be blunt, I’m not a fan of Kontakt’s filters compared to the Logic’s EXS24 (aka “Sampler” now).
> 
> But, after all that work, I have to say I'm thrilled with it. Because of the way it was all recorded through that iconic 80s processing, it’s the only way to get these sounds to this degree of accuracy. It’s sample based, so not legitimate FM synthesis of course, but if you want a time machine to the 80s and the sonic bliss of a DX5 & TX816 firing on all cylinders, this is the only way to get it. Unless you happen to have all that original hardware, an analog desk, tape, preamps, a Dimension D, and AMS reverb of course.
> 
> Here's the Kontakt version teaser:
> 
> 
> 
> I also did a little documentary of sorts, on the process of capturing all those iconic sounds via sampling. If you have nothing better to do, this might be a fun trip down a rabbit hole. Hope you enjoy it! It's broken up into chapters (see table of contents)



That's great news. My budget is unfortunately very limited at the moment (new PC build, monitor, studio monitors and audio interface all at once). I'm hoping to pick this up early next year though.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

According to one of the (former) developers, the issue with cross-oscillator FM in Equator2 is the lack of oversampling (so far at least...). But DDMF's Superplugin supposedly adds oversampling to any plugin. Would that solve the issue? Or would the oversampling have to be in the plugin's internal processing, which Superplugin presumably wouldn't be able to access?...









KVR Forum: Roli: Equator 2 is here ! - Page 24 - Instruments Forum


KVR Audio Forum - Roli: Equator 2 is here ! - Page 24 - Instruments Forum




www.kvraudio.com


----------



## Bee_Abney

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> According to one of the (former) developers, the issue with cross-oscillator FM in Equator2 is the lack of oversampling (so far at least...). But DDMF's Superplugin supposedly adds oversampling to any plugin. Would that solve the issue? Or would the oversampling have to be in the plugin's internal processing, which Superplugin presumably wouldn't be able to access?...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KVR Forum: Roli: Equator 2 is here ! - Page 24 - Instruments Forum
> 
> 
> KVR Audio Forum - Roli: Equator 2 is here ! - Page 24 - Instruments Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kvraudio.com


I believe that oversampling separately for each effect (where it is needed) gives better results than oversampling once for a series of effects. I recall Dan Worrall saying this in the context of separate plugins; but I think it would apply to multiple effects within the same plugin. Still, oversampling the whole synth would still be better than no oversampling.

It may be that indiviualised oversampling matters for some effects much more than others, and I don't know if FM is one of those.

In Falcon you can oversample for some specific effects modules within it; but not all of them. So, you don't have separate oversampling for the oscillator, including FM; and you don't have it for delay, reverb, or clipping, but you do for drive, fuzz, exciter. Maybe there is a rationale for this.

MSoundFactory has oversampling for the whole synth, but I don't think it has oversampling for specific effects; though for at least one kind of oscillator there are tick boxes for 'Allow oversampling' and 'Allow antialiasing'.


----------



## doctoremmet

kgdrum said:


> True I tried to replace a great $99 Canon printer that died after about 10 years with another Canon printer last month. The cheapest one that I could find was actually close to $300 . I got it and quickly determined it was junk and immediately sent it back to Amazon.
> So I’m still looking for a decent reasonably priced printer…………
> Getting back to the topic that soundset sounds really nice but yeah it’s a bit pricey,I would never pay $50 for it even $35 on sale it a bit of a stretch imo.


Current JRRshop sale spotted:


----------



## Whywhy

I did an imaginary flute this afternoon with f.em, here the preset : mpe in mind, continuous pressure control the amp.
See preset description, a little sound, funny too play with...
(Sorry, no audio preview)


----------



## doctoremmet

Cherry's second original synth design after Dreamsynth. What do you reckon? Sounds like an FM one right? October 6.


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Cherry's second original synth design after Dreamsynth. What do you reckon? Sounds like an FM one right? October 6.



f.'em !!


----------



## Alchemedia

sostenuto said:


> f.'em !!



That's easy for you to say.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Alchemedia said:


> That's easy for you to say.


Epham. It's just south of Boreham and north of Chatham. It's one of my favourite hams, after Cosham and Wrexham. Admittedly, I've never been to Fulham.


----------



## Marcus Millfield

doctoremmet said:


> Cherry's second original synth design after Dreamsynth. What do you reckon? Sounds like an FM one right? October 6.



Could be additive though...


----------



## doctoremmet

Marcus Millfield said:


> Could be additive though...


Absolutely.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Epham. It's just south of Boreham and north of Chatham. It's one of my favourite hams, after Cosham and Wrexham. Admittedly, I've never been to Fulham.


........... thought you might be jonhamm fan girl 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Marcus Millfield

doctoremmet said:


> Absolutely.


Would be a tad more original than the saturated market of FM synths, no?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Marcus Millfield said:


> Would be a tad more original than the saturated market of FM synths, no?


Dude. Look at what thread you're on. What are you thinking?

(Even if you are right.)


----------



## doctoremmet

Marcus Millfield said:


> Would be a tad more original than the saturated market of FM synths, no?


True, would definitely love for it to be an additive synth. My rekindled love for Reason has made me buy Parsec and that is one great synth.


----------



## Marcus Millfield

Bee_Abney said:


> thinking



What's that strange word?

Sorry, I'm from Worsterham and like my pork spicy.


----------



## Bee_Abney

I'm currently a bit weirded out by discovering that the Fairlight seems to have a better integration of resynthesis and additive synthesis than any modern virtual synth I've been able to find.

More relevantly to the thread... I've recently been exploring FM synthesis in Falcon more. It may be relatively limited, but it can get some very nice results.


----------



## Marcus Millfield

doctoremmet said:


> True, would definitely love for it to be an additive synth. My rekindled love for Reason has made me buy Parsec and that is one great synth.


Don't know Parsec, but have a lot of fun with additive synthesis in Falcon. It's like the oscillator equivalent of a combfilter on steroids.


----------



## doctoremmet

Behold... The K5:


----------



## shawnsingh

Bee_Abney said:


> I've recently been exploring FM synthesis in Falcon more. It may be relatively limited, but it can get some very nice results.


Yes this. Also because fx, other layers of oscillaors, and arbitrary modulation choices are just a few mouse clicks away too.


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> Behold... The K5:


It's like stepping into the best time machine ever.


----------



## Marcus Millfield

José Herring said:


> It's like stepping into the best time machine ever.


And that's just one rack...


----------



## CrystalWizard

Bee_Abney said:


> It may be that indiviualised oversampling matters for some effects much more than others, and I don't know if FM is one of those.
> 
> In Falcon you can oversample for some specific effects modules within it; but not all of them. So, you don't have separate oversampling for the oscillator, including FM; and you don't have it for delay, reverb, or clipping, but you do for drive, fuzz, exciter. Maybe there is a rationale for this.


Fuzz, drive and exciter are non linear processes that can add super high frequency harmonics. Sounds better oversampled IMO. I'm a fan of high sample rates in general. I know "one can't hear freqs that high" but it sounds better to me (provided i am listening on a great playback system, monitors, room, etc.)


----------



## Bee_Abney

CrystalWizard said:


> Fuzz, drive and exciter are non linear processes that can add super high frequency harmonics. Sounds better oversampled IMO. I'm a fan of high sample rates in general. I know "one can't hear freqs that high" but it sounds better to me (provided i am listening on a great playback system, monitors, room, etc.)


Although most EQs are nonlinear, too. But, yes, you're right of course.

I'm less keen on what oversampling can do to some sounds. With others, it really helps! A lot of unharminc distortion at album length can be very tiring.


----------



## Crowe

Imma be honest, I can't get over the fact this man has a LinnDrum.


----------



## Paul_xyz

I don't see any mention of parawave's rapid in this thread. That's a really nice 3 oscillator synth that can do phase modulation (dx style FM) with any wavetable oscillators acting as carriers, but the modulating oscillators can be wavetable or muti-sample oscillators (which includes granular synthesis too). The demo is just a 20 min time and content limited affair, so gives a real feel for what it can do.

Looks like their only sales tend to be black friday week, so have this on my list for then.


----------



## doctoremmet

Rapid is a great synth. It does FM well, but isn’t regarded as an actual “FM synth” I guess, because it can do so much more as well. Thanks for mentioning it.


----------



## SupremeFist

Bee_Abney said:


> Epham. It's just south of Boreham and north of Chatham. It's one of my favourite hams, after Cosham and Wrexham. Admittedly, I've never been to Fulham.


Surely Ham is the best ham.


----------



## Bee_Abney

SupremeFist said:


> Surely Ham is the best ham.


No! Perhaps Spamham, though!


----------



## SupremeFist

Bee_Abney said:


> No! Perhaps Spamham, though!


Sounds like it's in the North; I don't go there.


----------



## Bee_Abney

SupremeFist said:


> Sounds like it's in the North; I don't go there.


North East, it's a Viking settlement.


----------



## doctoremmet

doctoremmet said:


> Cherry's second original synth design after Dreamsynth. What do you reckon? Sounds like an FM one right? October 6.



I was right.









Sines


Sines is a sensational and innovative original polyphonic synthesizer. Employing four sine-wave oscillators, Sines utilizes diverse waveshaping methods to bend these pure waveforms into infinitely variable and complex shapes. When combined with its wide-ranging modulation capabilities and...




cherryaudio.com


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Bee_Abney

That is FM brilliant, if you'll pardonnez ma Francais.

As a hardware FM synth, this would be outstanding. All those knobs are a bit trickier to cope with on a screen, but it still looks and sound fantastic. If I hadn't already bought F'Em, I'd be really keen. But I find F'Em too much for me already! I've learned to stick to much simpler FM synths for the time being until I have a lot more time to devote to it.


----------



## doctoremmet

My favourite Japanese synth guy:


----------



## Alchemedia

In one corner we have @doctoremmet, King of FM Synths. 
In the other corner we have @charlieclouser, who apparently despises FM. 

If you'd like more enlightening content be sure to subscribe and smash that like button on the way out.


----------



## doctoremmet

When I read mister Clouser’s post about his opinion on FM, I seriously started to doubt my own judgment. 

(I do have a YT channel just to be able to share stuff on here. I have 34 subscribers hahaha)


----------



## Alchemedia

doctoremmet said:


> When I read mister Clouser’s post about his opinion on FM, I seriously started to doubt my own judgment.
> 
> (I do have a YT channel just to be able to share stuff on here. I have 34 subscribers hahaha)



Repeat after me...

"If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning...."


----------



## doctoremmet

Alchemedia said:


> In one corner we have @doctoremmet, King of FM Synths.
> In the other corner we have @charlieclouser, who apparently despises FM.
> 
> If you'd like more enlightening content be sure to subscribe and smash that like button on the way out.


I already owned him


----------



## doctoremmet

This looks like a fun 2OP Ableton instrument (€10).













Fors


We make novel instruments that are elegant to use and adventurous in sound.




fors.fm


----------



## kgdrum

@doctoremmet and other FM fanatics,
I am not as FM obsessed/oriented or knowledgeable as a few of you but probably my favorite FM synth in recent years that rarely gets mentioned, which I really find puzzling is the OPS-7 from Plogue. Why doesn’t this get more love and attention in the FM world? For me the OPS-7 nails the FM sound, Why isn’t there more attention directed towards this FM gem?









Plogue | chipsynth OPS7


chipsynth OPS7 is the perfectly emulated version of the most famous 6-op FM synth down to every single chip




www.plogue.com


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> @doctoremmet and other FM fanatics,
> I am not as FM obsessed/oriented or knowledgeable as a few of you but probably my favorite FM synth in recent years that rarely gets mentioned, which I really find puzzling & is the OPS-7 from Plogue. Why doesn’t this get more love and attention in the FM world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plogue | chipsynth OPS7
> 
> 
> chipsynth OPS7 is the perfectly emulated version of the most famous 6-op FM synth down to every single chip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.plogue.com


Too retro, grandad!


----------



## doctoremmet

kgdrum said:


> @doctoremmet and other FM fanatics I am not as FM obsessed/oriented as a few of you but probably my favorite FM synth in recent years that rarely gets mentioned, which I find puzzling & from my perspective nails FM is the OPS-7 from Plogue. Why doesn’t this get more love and attention in the FM world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plogue | chipsynth OPS7
> 
> 
> chipsynth OPS7 is the perfectly emulated version of the most famous 6-op FM synth down to every single chip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.plogue.com


Oh but it was mentioned. And it is a bloody brilliant DX7 clone. My best mate adores it because it can import DX7 sysex as well.

My own relative silence about this synth can likely best be explained by owning a couple of actual DX7s, so my excitement may be a bit subdued by it being the n-th iteration of that one. So newer iterations (or variations rather) SEEM more interesting to me a priori. My current FM workhorses are Reason Studios’ Algorithm (great UI) and f.’em (brilliant to program patches). Haven’t even checked out Sines yet.

I’ve been sidetracked by COVID and still suffer from it a bit (in combination with a less than ideal basic health of course). As soon as I feel better I feel like doing a couple of videos on FM and show different synths. I also finished approx. 25 free patches for f.’em, that I want to release early ‘23.

Anyway. Plogue for the win! Arguably the best ever DX7 iteration.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Too retro, grandad!


Thank you kind sir! 😘


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Thank you kind sir! 😘


You win this time, ma'am.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> You win this time, ma'am.


Shush you mouth! Now everyone knows our sordid secret 😱


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Oh but it was mentioned. And it is a bloody brilliant DX7 clone. My best mate adores it because it can import DX7 sysex as well.
> 
> My own relative silence about this synth can likely best be explained by owning a couple of actual DX7s, so my excitement may be a bit subdued by it being the n-th iteration of that one. So newer iterations (or variations rather) SEEM more interesting to me a priori. My current FM workhorses are Reason Studios’ Algorithm (great UI) and f.’em (brilliant to program patches). Haven’t even checked out Sines yet.
> 
> I’ve been sidetracked by COVID and still suffer from it a bit (in combination with a less than ideal basic health of course). As soon as I feel better I feel like doing a couple of videos on FM and show different synths. I also finished approx. 25 free patches for f.’em, that I want to release early ‘23.
> 
> Anyway. Plogue for the win! Arguably the best ever DX7 iteration.


Take care of yourself. Eat better. And I hope you do feel better soon; I know it's really draggging on for you.

I want your videos and patches!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Take care of yourself. Eat better. And I hope you do feel better soon; I know it's really draggging on for you.
> 
> I want your videos and patches!



@doctoremmet

Yeah Temme definitely get well ASAP
I finally got my 2nd booster 11 days ago, no problem 👍
the flu shot I got 4 days later otoh 😱

But let’s be clear unless you’re wearing a nun‘s outfit a certain sociopath with an amazing vocabulary that prattles endlessly doesn’t really care until she senses a delay in more videos or patches!


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> @doctoremmet
> 
> Yeah Temme definitely get well ASAP
> I finally got my 2nd booster 11 days ago, no problem 👍
> the flu shot I got 4 days later otoh 😱
> 
> But let’s be clear unless your wearing a nun outfit a certain sociopath with an amazing vocabulary doesn’t really care until she senses a delay in more videos or patches!


Now I want to try to make an FM nuns patch. I really have a problem!

Thank heavens the second season of Warrior Nun starts on Netflix on Thursday!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Now I want to try to make an FM nuns patch. I really have a problem!
> 
> Thank heavens the second season of Warrior Nun starts on Netflix on Thursday!


OM F’ing G this is actually a real TV show? I just looked on IMDB & to my horror it’s an actual real TV show.
I thought you were having another one of your nun/fantasy based episodes!
Are there actually more of you out there?
No wonder the world is in the shape it’s in……………..


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> OM F’ing G this is actually a real TV show? I thought you were having another one of your nun/fantasy based episodes!
> Are there actually more of you out there? No wonder the world is in the shape it’s in……………..


Oh yeah!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Oh yeah!


Is this what you see when you look in the mirror?


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Is this what you see when you look in the mirror?


No, it's a bit more like this, sadly:


----------



## kgdrum

GrandMa! or should I refer to you as big hand Sister Bee?
Were you one of the participants in the TV show called the Flying Nun?


----------



## kgdrum

Until you get to see The Warrior Nun this should hold you over!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Just to call an end to this digression... My attempt at an FM convent choir using Bella-FM in Reaktor.

View attachment FM Nuns.mp3



And now in context.

View attachment FM Nuns Late Night Groove.mp3


No, my FM nuns sound nothing like women singing. Ironically, if you play an octave or so lower, it sounds a lot like monks. Honest.


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> No, my FM nuns sound nothing like women singing.


It does have a cyber angelic kind of vibe though


----------



## sostenuto

Pier said:


> It does have a cyber angelic kind of vibe though


Takes waaay back to party when ??? sprinkled LSD on big bowl of chips !! 
.......everything was kinda cyber 🥴


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Takes waaay back to party when ??? sprinkled LSD on big bowl of chips !!
> .......everything was kinda cyber 🥴


Sounds like a good time! Just chips for me, though!


----------



## José Herring

Bee_Abney said:


> Now I want to try to make an FM nuns patch. I really have a problem!
> 
> Thank heavens the second season of Warrior Nun starts on Netflix on Thursday!


Tried to get through season one. I gave it my best but not even cute nuns slinging swords and doing martial arts could save this show for me.


----------



## Bee_Abney

José Herring said:


> Tried to get through season one. I gave it my best but not even cute nuns slinging swords and doing martial arts could save this show for me.


But.. but... Nuns!


----------



## sostenuto

José Herring said:


> Tried to get through season one. I gave it my best but not even cute nuns slinging swords and doing martial arts could save this show for me.


??? Sister Bee got my vote in first few seconds !! 🪁 

OK _ F.'em > back to OP's topic !


----------



## CrystalWizard

Bee_Abney said:


> Sounds like a good time! Just chips for me, though!


I'm the opposite, no chips for me, not good for my health


----------



## Bee_Abney

CrystalWizard said:


> I'm the opposite, no chips for me, not good for my health


Best to stick to the healthy, psychotropic option, then!


----------



## Crowe

José Herring said:


> Tried to get through season one. I gave it my best but not even cute nuns slinging swords and doing martial arts could save this show for me.


I really wanted to like it. I tried. It sounded like everything I want out of mindless tv entertainment.

It wasn't.


----------



## Crowe

Bee_Abney said:


> Best to stick to the healthy, psychotropic option, then!


I'm told LSD is one of the few things that actually helps against migraines so it can't possibly be bad for you.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Crowe said:


> I'm told LSD is one of the few things that actually helps against migraines so it can't possibly be bad for you.


It was used for therapeutic purposes and Cary Grant was an early enthusiast. How could it be bad?


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> Best to stick to the healthy, psychotropic option, then!


You joke but there's plenty of research showing psychedelics can be good for brain health.

Psilocybes (magic mushrooms) helped me a lot go through depression years ago.

Hopefully humanity will get more progressive regarding these things. There's a series in Netflix called How to Change Your Mind with Michael Pollan that is super interesting on the research that's being done currently.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> You joke but there's plenty of research showing psychedelics can be good for brain health.
> 
> Psilocybes (magic mushrooms) helped me a lot go through depression years ago.
> 
> Hopefully humanity will get more progressive regarding these things. There's a series in Netflix called How to Change Your Mind with Michael Pollan that is super interesting on the research that's being done currently.


It's certainly an area that needs rigorous research without obstruction by silly ideas about some drugs being essentially bad because they can also be enjoyed.


----------



## kgdrum

You want research?




Psilocybin Treatment for Major Depression Effective for Up to a Year for Most Patients, Study Shows












Psilocybin Rewires the Brain for People with Depression


Scientists at UC San Francisco and Imperial College London found that psilocybin fosters greater connections between different regions of the brain in depressed people, freeing them up from long-held patterns of rumination and excessive self-focus.




www.ucsf.edu






https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/11/03/magic-mushroom-psilocybin-depression-study/









Severe depression eased by single dose of synthetic 'magic mushroom' | CNN


A single treatment of synthetic psilocybin, the mind-altering ingredient in magic mushrooms, improved mood in people with treatment-resistant depression within three weeks, new company-sponsored research found.




www.cnn.com













Psilocybin Spurs Brain Activity in Patients With Depression, Small Study Shows


The chemical derived from psychedelic mushrooms helped alleviate symptoms of depression and generated detectable neural responses that lasted weeks.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Marcus Millfield

kgdrum said:


> You want research?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Psilocybin Treatment for Major Depression Effective for Up to a Year for Most Patients, Study Shows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Psilocybin Rewires the Brain for People with Depression
> 
> 
> Scientists at UC San Francisco and Imperial College London found that psilocybin fosters greater connections between different regions of the brain in depressed people, freeing them up from long-held patterns of rumination and excessive self-focus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ucsf.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/11/03/magic-mushroom-psilocybin-depression-study/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Severe depression eased by single dose of synthetic 'magic mushroom' | CNN
> 
> 
> A single treatment of synthetic psilocybin, the mind-altering ingredient in magic mushrooms, improved mood in people with treatment-resistant depression within three weeks, new company-sponsored research found.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Psilocybin Spurs Brain Activity in Patients With Depression, Small Study Shows
> 
> 
> The chemical derived from psychedelic mushrooms helped alleviate symptoms of depression and generated detectable neural responses that lasted weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


Or check Netflix' excellent documentary Fantastic Fungi


----------



## CrystalWizard

Crowe said:


> I'm told LSD is one of the few things that actually helps against migraines so it can't possibly be bad for you.


Indeed, Dr. Albert was researching cures for migraine headaches when he discovered LSD 25.

on topic: I've never felt the need to look beyond FM8 which i've had for a looong time.


----------



## Alchemedia

I fortunately don't suffer from migraines, however, Timothy Leary once gave me excellent advice: "Just Say Know".


----------



## Dirtgrain

Opsix Native is on sale for $100. Tasty.


----------



## Alchemedia

Bee_Abney said:


> Just to call an end to this digression... My attempt at an FM convent choir using Bella-FM in Reaktor.
> 
> View attachment FM Nuns.mp3
> 
> 
> 
> And now in context.
> 
> View attachment FM Nuns Late Night Groove.mp3
> 
> 
> No, my FM nuns sound nothing like women singing. Ironically, if you play an octave or so lower, it sounds a lot like monks. Honest.


@kgdrum Better hide those gadgets from Gidget!


----------



## Alchemedia

sostenuto said:


> Takes waaay back to party when ??? sprinkled LSD on big bowl of chips !!
> .......everything was kinda cyber 🥴


Who do you think you are, Mama Cass?


----------



## kgdrum

Alchemedia said:


> @kgdrum Better hide those gadgets from Gidget!


Gidget? With her sunny disposition I think Morticia is more of an appropriate nickname for VI-C’s Sister Betrill and seriously Sweet Bee is more of a tool and sharp object aficionado ,gadgets are just too pedestrian for Norman Bates spiritual neice.


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Gidget? With her sunny disposition I think Morticia is more of an appropriate nickname for VI-C’s Sister Betrill and seriously Sweet Bee is more of a tool and sharp object aficionado ,gadgets are just to pedestrian for Norman Bates spiritual neice.


I can't argue with that.


----------



## AudioXpression

doctoremmet said:


>



Amazing!!
It seems pretty intuitive and easy to use.
Thanks!!


----------



## outland

Bee_Abney said:


> It was used for therapeutic purposes and Cary Grant was an early enthusiast. How could it be bad?


John Coltrane was an early fan of LSD as well (and this was after he went "cold turkey" [no pun intended, given the day] on all other drugs.) Oddly, apparently for a time, it wasn't considered a recreational drug in the same manner as, say, heroin. I ran across this while reading a biography of Coltrane. Looking back, it's hard to understand how this could be.


----------



## outland

So, this thread went from discussing available FM synths to LSD?

Is that some extremely understated, left-handed comment on the incomprehensible nature of FM programming?


----------



## kgdrum

outland said:


> John Coltrane was an early fan of LSD as well (and this was after he went "cold turkey" [no pun intended, given the day] on all other drugs.) Oddly, apparently for a time, it wasn't considered a recreational drug in the same manner as, say, heroin. I ran across this while reading a biography of Coltrane. Looking back, it's hard to understand how this could be.


If you like “free Jazz” one of my favorite Coltrane albums is Coltrane’s “Live in Seattle” it’s WILD RIDE! The entire band reportedly were all tripping on LSD it is a very raw recording but an amazing collection of magical music that I have probably listened to well over a thousand times,lol


----------



## doctoremmet

outland said:


> Is that some extremely understated, left-handed comment on the incomprehensible nature of FM programming?


You reckon?


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> You reckon?



And this is why I love FM!


----------



## kgdrum

Evolution on disc 2 is one of my favorite tracks,the music throughout the albums is raw and complex but really amazing!


----------



## Crowe

outland said:


> So, this thread went from discussing available FM synths to LSD?
> 
> Is that some extremely understated, left-handed comment on the incomprehensible nature of FM programming?


I've always thought the person who came up with FM synthesis must've been hallucinating something fierce.


----------



## outland

kgdrum said:


> If you like “free Jazz” one of my favorite Coltrane albums is Coltrane’s “Live in Seattle” it’s WILD RIDE! The entire band reportedly were all tripping on LSD it is a very raw recording but an amazing collection of magical music that I have probably listened to well over a thousand times,lol


Oddly, I don't won this one (yet) but I will. Thanks for the reminder. 

I think _Interstellar Space_ is my favorite free jazz from Coltrane. The focus that just the tenor and drums allows for is very clear. But Trane's entire output was SO incredible, consistent, and varied that it's difficult to pin down favorites to even five, isn't it?


----------



## Alchemedia

kgdrum said:


> If you like “free Jazz” one of my favorite Coltrane albums is Coltrane’s “Live in Seattle” it’s WILD RIDE! The entire band reportedly were all tripping on LSD it is a very raw recording but an amazing collection of magical music that I have probably listened to well over a thousand times,lol


As a fellow Philly native, that's how we roll!  Ascension is a trip too! If I could only listen to one musician for the rest of my life it would be Trane. Every time I discover something new. Genius!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Alchemedia said:


> As a fellow Philly native, that's how we roll!  Ascension is a trip too! If I could only listen to one musician for the rest of my life it would be Trane. Every time I listen to him I discover something new. Genius!


I feel the same way about Rick Astley.

Hmm? What drugs were you saying?


----------



## Pier

Crowe said:


> I've always thought the person who came up with FM synthesis must've been hallucinating something fierce.


People who are deep into math and physics are on another dimension.


----------



## kgdrum

@outland
Rasheid Ali was a very close friend of mine for about 35 years, he was a great guy and a brilliant drummer.
He schooled me on jazz and I reciprocated with eDrums. We used to drive his wife crazy,we would be playing drum duets until she shut us down numerous times around 2AM lol

@Alchemedia
as a Philly dude another friend of mine from that period who is also enormously talented and a great dude from Philly is Jamaladeen Tacuma ❤️ he played with Ornette in the Primetime Band.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> People who are deep into math and physics are on another dimension.


My brother is a mathematical physicist. He has been mistaken for being a bit slow before; but the explanation 'No, he's a mathematician' made sense of it all.


----------



## Alchemedia

Bee_Abney said:


> I feel the same way about Rick Astley.
> 
> Hmm? What drugs were you saying?


@kgdrum Either Bee's a regular Houdini or your shibari skills are waning.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Alchemedia said:


> @kgdrum Either Bee's a regular Houdini or your shibari skills are waning.


The trick is to flex your muscles when they tie the knots. That way, when you relax, your limbs are thinner.


----------



## kgdrum

Alchemedia said:


> @kgdrum Either Bee's a regular Houdini or your shibari skills are waning.


The Rick Astley comment can only be explained by “bad acid”


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> The Rick Astley comment can only be explained by “bad acid”


Never gonna give you up... hail, hail, hail and kill... never gonna let you down... like flames, on the side of my face... never gonna run around and... mmm, dessert...


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Never gonna give you up... hail, hail, hail and kill... never gonna let you down... like flames, on the side of my face... never gonna run around and... mmm, dessert...


We have both posted some horrible atrocities over the last year or two but the fact that you know Rick Astley’s music and lyrics is beyond disturbing,actually terrifying!


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> We have both posted some horrible atrocities over the last year or two but the fact that you know Rick Astley’s music and lyrics is beyond disturbing,actually terrifying!


As, apparently, do you!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> As, apparently, do you!


Not until you posted that horrible display of lyrics from hell that I had thankfully buried 🤮 some 30 years ago.


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Not until you posted that horrible display of lyrics from hell that I had thankfully buried after 🤮 some 30 years ago.


Word of the day: emetophilia.


----------



## outland

Crowe said:


> I've always thought the person who came up with FM synthesis must've been hallucinating something fierce.


Chowning apparently did much of his work in both California and at Bell Labs in Chester, NJ, not far from where I lived at the time. There was work done there as well on what became the Yamaha WX7 (they dissected Lyricons for this, but I think Chowning was the connection there as well.) I found out about this through a student I had who was studying tenor sax with me who possessed a doctorate in some esoteric electro-biological area of expertise who happened to work at Bell Labs there in Chester; he'd seen the work they were doing reverse engineering Lyricons and told me about it when I showed him my Lyricon II.

It had been said at one point that the only person (besides Chowning) who knew how to really program using FM synthesis was Bo Tomlyn. I think he also was the only person of the period who actually could live off of the money made from his FM programming prowess alone.


----------



## Alchemedia

Bee_Abney said:


> Never gonna give you up... hail, hail, hail and kill... never gonna let you down... like flames, on the side of my face... never gonna run around and... mmm, dessert...


I thought I saw you lip syncing that at the Macy's Parade today. 🦃


----------



## Bee_Abney

Alchemedia said:


> I thought I saw you lip syncing that at the Macy's Parade today. 🦃


300 lbs, nearly bald, wearing only feathers? That was me!


----------



## Alchemedia

Bee_Abney said:


> 300 lbs, nearly bald, wearing only feathers? That was me!


----------



## kgdrum

Getting back to programming FM synths I came to the realization that FM programming was beyond my limited mental acuity about 35 years ago when I bought a TX81Z and couldn’t even begin to figure that thing out even if my like depended on it 😱


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> 300 lbs, nearly bald, wearing only feathers? That was me!


Liar! That was me and I ditched the feathers this year!


----------



## doctoremmet

I hear that some weird German genius has created a hybrid breed of Generate oscillators that can do really cool FM.



Release date is a week before christmas.

(That formant vowel control reminds me of the Yamaha FS1R, and that is good)


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> I hear that some weird German genius has created a hybrid breed of Generate oscillators that can do really cool FM.
> 
> 
> 
> Release date is a week before christmas.
> 
> (That formant vowel control reminds me of the Yamaha FS1R, and that is good)



This synth must be self educated.

Because it's too cool for school.

I don't know why I do this...


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> This synth must be self educated.
> 
> Because it's too cool for school.
> 
> I don't know why I do this...


....... _emetophilia & Kult _in same Thread ! 
Can't imagine what 2023 may bring. 🤢


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> ....... _emetophilia & Kult _in same Thread !
> Can't imagine what 2023 may bring. 🤢


Nothing scatological, I promise! Except in the broader sense of obscenity.


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Nothing scatological, I promise! Except in the broader sense of obscenity.


The night’s young.


----------



## sostenuto




----------



## Alchemedia

kgdrum said:


> The night’s young.


----------



## doctoremmet

Hey fellow FoogerMoogers. Heads-up:









Omega Synthesizer Bundle by BLEASS - Audio Plugin Deals


For just $29,99 (normally $99.99), get BLEASS Synthesizer Alpha Bundle! This is the extended full version which includes an additional 700+ presets.




audioplugin.deals





Never even did research about this one, but vaguely remember Cameron seemed to like it @venustheory when it was released early 2022.

Anyway. It’s $29 at the moment. And comes with 300+ presets worth of expansion packs.


----------



## grabauf

It's also available on sale directly at Bleass:









BLEASS Omega Bundle


Get BLEASS Omega Synthesizer + ALL 300+ additional presets




www.bleass.com


----------



## Crowe

Arghhhh. I just booted up F'em for the first time because I thought, hey, I need to synthesize an electric piano. FM should be good for that.

Silly me had forgotten it doesn't know how to FM.

Does anyone know of a, say, kinder way of getting your FM feet wet than attempting to headbutt it with your teeth? F'em being a brick wall in this equation.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Crowe said:


> Arghhhh. I just booted up F'em for the first time because I thought, hey, I need to synthesize an electric piano. FM should be good for that.
> 
> Silly me had forgotten it doesn't know how to FM.
> 
> Does anyone know of a, say, kinder way of getting your FM feet wet than attempting to headbutt it with your teeth? F'em being a brick wall in this equation.


Of course you could just load up one of the factory presets that come up when searching "piano" (which includes many labeled EP which I'd assume means electric) and try playing around with the parameters to hear what happens.... 

(I bought FM8 around the same time because it has roughly ten zillion presets. And the FX can be used as a separate plugin, making it easier to reproduce the presets using other synths.)


----------



## JSTube

Crowe said:


> Does anyone know of a, say, kinder way of getting your FM feet wet than attempting to headbutt it with your teeth? F'em being a brick wall in this equation.


Sure. Use an LFO to create vibrato on a subtractive synthesizer. This is FM in its most basic form. Change the LFO to be even faster than audible vibrato and you can create additional harmonics.

*Even analog synthesizers are capable of FM synthhesis and it's not necessarily limited to a digital domain.*

FM isn't for the faint of heart so you're kind of asking for the "most simple way to get into one of the most complicated and least-understood methods of synthesis." -- FWIW nobody ever regarded FM synthesis as easily-controlled or intuitive. It's not like it was hugely successful compared to other synthesis methods.

If you want a specific sound, via FM, I know synthesizer programmers who would love to hear from you! There are people on youtube selling FM patches in the comments section, that's how lucrative it is.


----------



## Marcus Millfield

FM is so hard because it's nearly impossible for us mortals to predict what you need to do to get to the end result you want. I'm not a good example though, because I even forget how to do stuff when I'm not behind my Projects after a while, which aren't that hard to get.


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> I hear that some weird German genius has created a hybrid breed of Generate oscillators that can do really cool FM.
> 
> 
> 
> Release date is a week before christmas.
> 
> (That formant vowel control reminds me of the Yamaha FS1R, and that is good)



I've been on a quest for the coolest, weirdest synth I could find. I think I just found it.


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

Marcus Millfield said:


> FM is so hard because it's nearly impossible for us mortals to predict what you need to do to get to the end result you want. I'm not a good example though, because I even forget how to do stuff when I'm not behind my Projects after a while, which aren't that hard to get.


But it's all been worked out mathematically hasn't it?... and the simple thing to remember is that whole number ratio = adds harmonic content, non-whole number ratio = adds inharmonic (bell-like, "weird", and/or percussive) content?

Or maybe AI will help: "FM Synthesis of Musical Instrument Sounds

... it is usually impractical to control it from an audio source. On the other hand, Differentiable Digital Signal Processing (DDSP) has enabled nuanced audio rendering by Deep Neural Networks (DNNs) that learn to control differentiable synthesis layers from arbitrary sound inputs. The training process involves a corpus of audio for supervision, and spectral reconstruction loss functions. ... we take steps towards enabling continuous control of a well-established FM synthesis architecture from an audio input. ... *Differentiable DX7 (DDX7)*, a lightweight architecture for neural FM resynthesis of musical instrument sounds in terms of a compact set of parameters. We train the model on instrument samples ... and quantitatively demonstrate its comparable audio quality against selected benchmarks."



DDX7



... after that's accomplished, the next step (beyond recreating sounds) would be creating interesting new sounds based on what people have liked in the past (perhaps including ongoing human input, as in the case of at least one online drum groove AI I know of) + randomization... though some degree of intelligent randomization should already be easy enough....


----------



## AmbientMile

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> ... after that's accomplished, the next step (beyond recreating sounds) would be creating interesting new sounds based on what people have liked in the past (perhaps including ongoing human input, as in the case of at least one online drum groove AI I know of) + randomization... though some degree of intelligent randomization should already be easy enough....


Reminds me of the Patternarium over at Sonic Charge. That would be a cool thing, random patch generation of a synth and you could up or down vote each sound and the AI would factor those votes to generate new sounds.


----------



## doctoremmet

Those new Reaktor blocks by Toybox are pretty good! @[email protected]


----------



## sostenuto

*fwiw* __ https://vstbuzz.com/deals/70-off-fr...22_12_06)&mc_cid=761d0a2374&mc_eid=efbd7fa80e


----------



## AnhrithmonGelasma

sostenuto said:


> *fwiw* __ https://vstbuzz.com/deals/70-off-fr...22_12_06)&mc_cid=761d0a2374&mc_eid=efbd7fa80e


Does it have oversampling for the FM? Cursory search turned up nothing....

Nice that it's MPE compatible.


----------



## doctoremmet

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Does it have oversampling for the FM? Cursory search turned up nothing....
> 
> Nice that it's MPE compatible.


I quite like FRMS. The desktop version has a setting for high quality audio, although I do not think it is mentioned in the documentation what this actually means in terms of oversampling.


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Thank-you, Temme !! 🙏🏻 *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*


Sos, I think you’d really like this one. The developer has a great (and fun) YT channel. And there are some really cool preset packs too that go on sale fairly often. I have had a lot of fun with them and they can do a lot - from almost-foley fx to playable sample based patches. There’s a lot of old school almost-cheesy FM spirit in them too but in a good way.

Somehow this synth is way more fun than it has any right to be based on sheer specs.


----------



## doctoremmet

Thanks @Databroth - very kind


----------



## gamma-ut

AmbientMile said:


> That would be a cool thing, random patch generation of a synth and you could up or down vote each sound and the AI would factor those votes to generate new sounds.


It doesn't have the voting thing, but someone did make a patch generator for Dexed that's trained on existing patches: https://www.thisdx7cartdoesnotexist.com/


----------



## automated hero

Hello FMriends. I have FM8 but I find it a bit awkward to use. I notice the Op6 vst is on sale. I have the demo, it's nice. But I can't decide if it's really worth it. I prefer the fx and it has some operator options the FM8 (iirc) doesn't have. 

Are there really any major differences to be aware of beyond that becacuse while I think I prefer the Op6 it doesn't seem worth spending all that money on while I have FM8 which is still pretty decent (even if the GUI doesn't resize in my daw, grumble grumble)

Thanks


----------



## José Herring

automated hero said:


> Hello FMriends. I have FM8 but I find it a bit awkward to use. I notice the Op6 vst is on sale. I have the demo, it's nice. But I can't decide if it's really worth it. I prefer the fx and it has some operator options the FM8 (iirc) doesn't have.
> 
> Are there really any major differences to be aware of beyond that becacuse while I think I prefer the Op6 it doesn't seem worth spending all that money on while I have FM8 which is still pretty decent (even if the GUI doesn't resize in my daw, grumble grumble)
> 
> Thanks


I just pulled out FM8 for the first time in years. It's not a bad synth at all really in spite my years of neglect. But, still not my favorite. Op6 I don't have but it seems like it can do a lot of what FM8 can do but yet is more synth user friendly.

In typical VI fashion I don't see the harm in owning them both. If you have FM8 then getting OP6 seems like it would be a little more fun to work with if that's important to you.


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## automated hero

Thanks, but the moment has passed. OP6 was on sale until the 28th of December iirc. Anyway, FM8 still seems more than capable. Others have mentioned F'EM which is also oin sale (iirc), btu the GUI was not to my liking. I don't think I can afford it anyway, I've just bought Valhalla Vintage verb


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## automated hero

automated hero said:


> Thanks, but the moment has passed. OP6 was on sale until the 28th of December iirc. Anyway, FM8 still seems more than capable. Others have mentioned F'EM which is also oin sale (iirc), btu the GUI was not to my liking. I don't think I can afford it anyway, I've just bought Valhalla Vintage verb


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## José Herring

automated hero said:


> Thanks, but the moment has passed. OP6 was on sale until the 28th of December iirc. Anyway, FM8 still seems more than capable. Others have mentioned F'EM which is also oin sale (iirc), btu the GUI was not to my liking. I don't think I can afford it anyway, I've just bought Valhalla Vintage verb


Probably money better spent. Valhalla verbs are excellent. 
I don't think you'll miss anything by not getting OP6. Seems like FM8 is more than capable of doing the same thing and more. 

It's funny how I started this thread because I never got along with FM8 and was looking for alternatives only to finally pull it out again and realized, it's actually pretty good. Not a fan really of the envelopes and how they get used on this synth and the filter just seems kind of bizarre to me, but it's more than capable as a synth and actually got it sounding pretty uniquely good fairly fast.


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## automated hero

José Herring said:


> Probably money better spent. Valhalla verbs are excellent.
> I don't think you'll miss anything by not getting OP6. Seems like FM8 is more than capable of doing the same thing and more.
> 
> It's funny how I started this thread because I never got along with FM8 and was looking for alternatives only to finally pull it out again and realized, it's actually pretty good. Not a fan really of the envelopes and how they get used on this synth and the filter just seems kind of bizarre to me, but it's more than capable as a synth and actually got it sounding pretty uniquely good fairly fast.


The envelopes are bit of a pain, imho. However OP6 just has standard adsr which is a blessing and a curse :D

FM8 is pretty good for FM. I'm not a huge fan of the fx, the delays are needlessly weird. The mod options are limited (can't modulate feedback, iirc, for example). But other than that it does the job quite well.

In the end it's just horses for courses I think. I'm not sure if FM is really for me, I'm going to have to find the time to practice it but i fear it requires more from me than [email protected] prepared to give.


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