# Vss 2!



## dfhagai (Sep 12, 2014)

Just bumped into this.
Looks like a great yet pricy update 
http://www.parallax-audio.com/


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## Stiltzkin (Sep 12, 2014)

That reMIRnds me of something else...

But no seriously, looks like a great update! Might download the demo later and give it a try on some of the 8Dio samples or something!


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## ceemusic (Sep 12, 2014)

Any update/ fixes for V1 users?


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## shapeshifter00 (Sep 12, 2014)

Looks great, I think I will upgrade to the Lite version, its only 24$ when I own VSS1 as long as it works better then VSS1. 
Can't wait to try out the demo when I get home.

Anyone tested it yet? The main issue with the previous version was that certain phasing occured, would love to know if that is much better.


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## playz123 (Sep 12, 2014)

ceemusic @ Fri Sep 12 said:


> Any update/ fixes for V1 users?



Just look at little more closely at the bottom of the purchase page...


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## pavolbrezina (Sep 12, 2014)

WOW...... that stolen MIR design >8o


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## playz123 (Sep 12, 2014)

C'mon, yes there are similarities, but also isn't "imitation the sincerest form of flattery"?


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## AC986 (Sep 12, 2014)

$99 upgrade to Pro looks like a steal if it's good. Sure it will be. Anyone tried it yet?


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## shapeshifter00 (Sep 12, 2014)

I'm sold on the lite version, I love the decca three and with some spaces I almost feel like I can make my dry libraries pretty close to my Spitfire libraries.. I don't feel there is much phasing like the original.. I love it.


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## ceemusic (Sep 12, 2014)

shapeshifter00 @ Fri Sep 12 said:


> I'm sold on the lite version, I love the decca three and with some spaces I almost feel like I can make my dry libraries pretty close to my Spitfire libraries.. I don't feel there is much phasing like the original.. I love it.


Good to hear it's improved.
I also had those phasing problems in V1.
Could you elaborate on ' I don't feel there is much phasing like the original.'?
How much less, etc.?
thanks


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## renochew (Sep 12, 2014)

@ceemusic
Come on, there is a free demo for you to try out. What do you want? Are you just wanting people to tell you, hey, its sounds 10x better the the first version, buy it! jeez..


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## shapeshifter00 (Sep 12, 2014)

Hard to say since I have not played a lot around with the new version yet, but so far I have not noticed any phasing. But yes, download the demo, it's the full version, you just can't save your settings. For my use it is good enough, for someone else it might not be


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## ceemusic (Sep 12, 2014)

*@renochew*
Sorry if my asking questions bothers you so much. 

Obviously if I could demo it I would, at the moment I can't.

Any info from anyone else is appreciated.


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## Allegro (Sep 12, 2014)

renochew @ Fri Sep 12 said:


> @ceemusic
> Come on, there is a free demo for you to try out. What do you want? Are you just wanting people to tell you, hey, its sounds 10x better the the first version, buy it! jeez..


Exactly! Don't know why he wanted people's opinion. The mod might as well close this tread as the OP's announcement was enough. Everyone can try the free version and see. No discussion needed! Right, right?


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## ceemusic (Sep 12, 2014)

Thanks shapeshifter00,

when I can I'll demo it.


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## milesito (Sep 12, 2014)

very interested...but how much ram or system resources would each instance take up? I assume I'd have to have many instances of this open...does anyone know?


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## dp_audio (Sep 12, 2014)

From the demo, it looks like it uses one shared instance across all the different tracks it's setup on, so it seems like the RAM usage would be fairly low.


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## Przemek K. (Sep 13, 2014)

Just tried the demo. It's really great. Simple to use, and it also doesn't use much processing power, which is a big plus for me.

The included presets sound also great. Alone the option for switching between different mics, is fantastic. Tried it on VSL and the new Chris Hein Winds, and they come alive quite nice.


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## Bohrium (Sep 13, 2014)

I've got the upgrade from VSS1.

Since I didn't have much use for VSS1 - it never quite sounded useful to me - I was really surprised how well VSS2 works in comparison.


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## Christof (Sep 13, 2014)

To clear things up: Is it right that this is more a positioning tool rather than a reverb tool?
Because this is what MIR does, it includes impulse responses plus the position in the sampled room.

Christof


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## jamwerks (Sep 13, 2014)

Just downloaded the demo. Is this IR or algo based?


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## Bohrium (Sep 13, 2014)

Christof @ Sat Sep 13 said:


> To clear things up: Is it right that this is more a positioning tool rather than a reverb tool?



I understand that it's just for positioning. No tails getting delivered with it 'cause you have to still use a reverb send.

http://www.parallax-audio.com/documentation.php


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## Christof (Sep 13, 2014)

Yes, thats why it's quite small in the size (and pricing).


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## Sid Francis (Sep 13, 2014)

But big in effect  I just tried a bit around with the demo and will upgrade to Pro in a minute. I did not use Version 1 because of the phasing but it seems to be completely gone. And the possibilities are so vast that it is more of a "Version 3" than a "Version 2"

And yes: a positioning tool, no tails. But if you place the instruments far in the hall it is like a short reverb. 
I´ve been looking for such a tool for years now. Finally. Makes placing much easier for me than fumbling every instrument myself into place  And the looks are gorgeous.
Did I mention "gorgeous" ? :D Really.


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## benmrx (Sep 13, 2014)

Can't wait to try this out! Slightly OT, but I'm actually doing a bunch of audio post work right now and the ADR was recorded way too close to the mic and thinking this could help push it back a bit.


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## Marius Masalar (Sep 13, 2014)

Hi folks,

I had a bit of time today to play around with the demo and figured I'd toss together a quick comparison between the spatialization of VSS2 and SPAT. I don't own VSS, nor this new version, so I'm just using the demo.

It's kind of hard to match settings between SPAT and VSS but I did my best. The test subject is a simple pair of legato blurbs played by VSL's Orchestral Strings with some Solo Strings layered in for liveliness. The goal was to make it sound like the players are about 2 metres in front of us in an average sized concert hall.

To achieve this, I set SPAT to its default and adjusted the positions of each section individually so that everyone was about 2m away and facing toward the conductor. SPAT's reverb is turned off. I did essentially the same thing in VSS2, using the default Concert Hall A model.

Both sources are put through EWQL Spaces (as a send) for the reverb tail, which uses the "S. Cal. Hall Full Orc TS RR 3.8s" preset with the very low frequencies filtered out of it.

Here's SPAT: http://d.pr/a/Iqh4
Here's VSS2: http://d.pr/a/gn96

I think the comparison demonstrates that you can get surprisingly similar results out of both plugins, especially when using very "normal" settings like this. To my ears, the VSS example is a little cloudier, somewhat less clear sounding, but I'm sure that spending more time massaging the settings could yield even closer results—and the important thing is not that it can sound like SPAT, but that it can sound good in and of itself, which I believe is certainly the case.

For stranger spatialization, SPAT remains more convincing to my ears (from what I've tried so far), but I would have to spend some more serious time with VSS2 to really have an informed opinion. The CPU load is really light, which I appreciate.

Anyway, hope that's helpful for anyone else who was wondering how the two compare.


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## Christof (Sep 13, 2014)

What is SPAT?


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## Marius Masalar (Sep 13, 2014)

Christof, SPAT is a spatialization tool from IRCAM that is generally considered the standard in this particular niche. You can read all about it on the various threads that have popped up about it, or on its product page here:

http://www.fluxhome.com/products/plug_ins/ircam_spat-v3

Very pricey, but I haven't found anything quite like it as far as sophistication and control.


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## BenG (Sep 13, 2014)

Just bought the Lite version as a VERY affordable upgrade from VSS 1 and I'm really loving it. Trying it out with SM French Horn really sounds great and just sits in the room as it should. For the price, it's a no-brainer.


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## shapeshifter00 (Sep 13, 2014)

BenG @ Sat Sep 13 said:


> Just bought the Lite version as a VERY affordable upgrade from VSS 1 and I'm really loving it. Trying it out with SM French Horn really sounds great and just sits in the room as it should. For the price, it's a no-brainer.



I did the same Ben, 29 CAD for the update was well worth it because I feel it is way better then VSS and I love the GUI and that every channel you use it on will be on the side to control.


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## dedersen (Sep 13, 2014)

Any early feedback on the phasing issue from the first version? I was thrilled with VSS 1 when it first came out, until I started noticing the problems it introduced.

I'll give the demo a spin, I guess. Very nice to offer a fully functional demo version!


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## R. Soul (Sep 13, 2014)

I've never really looked into VSS or the competitors as I don't do pure orchestral tracks, but it sounds like it could possibly make my mixing less of a nightmare.
Would it be good on say Rock, Electronica or Hybrid tracks?


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## playz123 (Sep 13, 2014)

R. Soul @ Sat Sep 13 said:


> I've never really looked into VSS or the competitors as I don't do pure orchestral tracks, but it sounds like it could possibly make my mixing less of a nightmare.
> Would it be good on say Rock, Electronica or Hybrid tracks?




How and when VSS is used is related to what is on the audio track and not the genre of music. So, for example, it could just as easily be used on a guitar in a rock band as on a solo trumpet in a classical setting.


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## brett (Sep 13, 2014)

Does anyone know if there is a way to open completely independent instances of VSS2?

I'd like to use two different mic setups in a single project

B


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## Blakus (Sep 13, 2014)

brett @ Sun Sep 14 said:


> Does anyone know if there is a way to open completely independent instances of VSS2?
> 
> I'd like to use two different mic setups in a single project
> 
> B



I was wondering this too!


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## constaneum (Sep 13, 2014)

No idea on that. Have you tried having two instances of VSS on the same FX channel? Just wondering....

Anyway, has anyone received the latest key for VSS 2 after purchasing VSS 2? Kinda strange that this time they didn't include the key but only include the download file. Ended up unable to use it. Still waiting for the reply from the support team on this. Wonder whether this happens to upgrade path only or what...hmm


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## Dr.Quest (Sep 14, 2014)

Waiting for the key file here as well. I'm sure it's coming soon.


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## Blakus (Sep 14, 2014)

Yeah, the store wasn't generating the keys files properly. It will be manually sent to you soon


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## Sid Francis (Sep 14, 2014)

I got mine yesterday and Gabriel apologized for the delay: the shop is not working correctly and they have to process everything by hand. Just give him a bit of time, these are very kind guys


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## Enyak (Sep 14, 2014)

VSS2 is seriously very cool. The sound is now much more 3D and encompassing than VSS1. Big change.

However, are you guys getting some sort of impulse noise in the Concert rooms? I am getting kind of a uniform "klack!"-distortion sound when playing sounds with VERY sharp attack in the high frequencies, for example Celesta. It sounds like all the soundwaves are crashing against the wall at the same time and kind of producing a light distortion effect.


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## snattack (Sep 14, 2014)

It would be very interesting to hear from someone who owns Vienna MIR and also VSS2 how they compare! Anyone?


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## gaz (Sep 14, 2014)

Blakus @ Sat Sep 13 said:


> brett @ Sun Sep 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know if there is a way to open completely independent instances of VSS2?
> ...



Yes, I'd like the ability to do this too. Something similar to Slate Digital's VCC, where you can assign each instance to a group.


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## trailboss (Sep 14, 2014)

I've been using this today and it seems to me that VSS and VCC, to use your example, are doing separate and different things.

VSS is only adjusting room position/early reflections. It doesn't emulate anything beyond that, so I'm curious why you would need more than one mic setup.
Or am I missing something obvious?

You could use different reverbs later in the fx chain, as long as
you shut off early reflections in the reverb plug. I've been using
Altiverb, Aether, and Valhalla behind it, and the sound stage I get
is very good. I did have to position some instruments farther back
on the virtual stage than they would be in concert.

I wasn't a fan of VSS1, but I'm kind of liking this plug. I think it's worth the $100.


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## shapeshifter00 (Sep 14, 2014)

trailboss @ Sun Sep 14 said:


> I've been using this today and it seems to me that VSS and VCC, to use your example, are doing separate and different things.
> 
> VSS is only adjusting room position/early reflections. It doesn't emulate anything beyond that, so I'm curious why you would need more than one mic setup.
> Or am I missing something obvious?
> ...



I think he mean that with VCC you can assign different groups, while in VSS2 all your VSS2 instances is grouped together without being able to create different groups for different settings.


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## lehmannmusic (Sep 14, 2014)

I'm playing with the demo and it's pretty awesome. Is there a point to keeping the direct signal in the mix? I thought the point was to place the instruments in the room.


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## gaz (Sep 14, 2014)

shapeshifter00 @ Sun Sep 14 said:


> I think he mean that with VCC you can assign different groups, while in VSS2 all your VSS2 instances is grouped together without being able to create different groups for different settings.



Yes, exaclty. VCC and VSS2 ar e completely different plugins - I was just referring the ability to group instances. So, say, a number of groups which contain what's in the the global setting, with the ability to assign instances to whichever group you want.


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## Mystic (Sep 14, 2014)

What would the point of VSS2 be for something like Hollywood Strings which are already recorded in their proper placement?


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## shapeshifter00 (Sep 14, 2014)

Mystic @ Sun Sep 14 said:


> What would the point of VSS2 be for something like Hollywood Strings which are already recorded in their proper placement?



Good question. I tried it out, I feel the strings are really upfront compared to Spitfire Albion with the tree mic position, that is because I got the silver with one mic position and VSS2 helped me put them further back to be more similar to the Albion strings, and that for me is what I will use it for so I can use both libraries together. If you got diamond or gold I guess it's less point in using it.


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## trailboss (Sep 14, 2014)

I sent a message asking about the possibility of having separate stages for a project
and will pass along anything I get back, if he doesn't answer it here.

Gabriel says several people have requested this feature and it is on his to do
list for future release.


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## Sid Francis (Sep 14, 2014)

I second that wish since the stage becomes a bit scattered with icons when you place your whole template on it. I just need a better overview then. Would be sufficient to be able to activate/deactivate icon visibility for me.


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## Will Blackburn (Sep 15, 2014)

Marius Masalar @ Sat Sep 13 said:


> Here's SPAT: http://d.pr/a/Iqh4
> Here's VSS2: http://d.pr/a/gn96
> 
> I think the comparison demonstrates that you can get surprisingly similar results out of both plugins, especially when using very "normal" settings like this. To my ears, the VSS example is a little cloudier, somewhat less clear sounding, but I'm sure that spending more time massaging the settings could yield even closer results—and the important thing is not that it can sound like SPAT, but that it can sound good in and of itself, which I believe is certainly the case.



Thanks for the comparisons. I actually prefer the imaging of Vss here. The instruments have better seperation to my ears and the mix feels more open.


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## amsams (Sep 15, 2014)

Can any longtime users of the original VSS, or those with more experience than me, help me decide on how to blend these great early reflections into an algorithmic and/or convo verb? I've been messing with the demo (and am loving it!) but I just don't have the ear to get the reverb tails right. I'm using a lot of trial and error, but there's got to be a more systematic way. I've tried valhalla room, removing the entire early reflections, but I've also tried leaving a little in there (like 15-25 on the early send). In a way having a little something there sounds better to my ears. Is this how others work? In Space Designer I've tried taking out the early reflection of the response wave forms with mixed results. Are there any standard starting points you work from? many thanks!


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## hawpri (Sep 15, 2014)

@lehmannmusic

It sounds like 'direct signal' isn't the original raw output of your sampler- try muting the ER to hear the direct signal and then bypass the plugin for comparison. I think it's referring to the emulation of a direct sound from your VI on the stage, including effects of the preset of your choice (speaker setup, air absorption, mic setup, etc ) without and in contrast to the ER signal's sounds.


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## samphony (Sep 16, 2014)

brett @ Sun Sep 14 said:


> Does anyone know if there is a way to open completely independent instances of VSS2?
> 
> I'd like to use two different mic setups in a single project
> 
> B



What do you mean by that?
You insert vss2 into the instrument or aux tracks to your liking the only difference to vss1 is that all instances see each other.


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## brett (Sep 16, 2014)

Yes but all instruments are in the same physical space with the same mic. While that makes sense in an orchestral context VSS is just a tool like any other - there are no rules!

We don't use just a single reverb or delay or compressor or mic in the production of at given track and likewise I'd like the freedom to mix up ERs. 

More specifically, I like the Decca tree mic for orchestral but find this mic too diffuse for certain featured sounds. Or in a hybrid style track, I might want to place a modern heavyocity style loop further back but use a different mic or space as an effect. Why be restricted? 

Brett


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## Morph (Sep 16, 2014)

Isn't it possible to duplicate the AU/VST file to "********_2" and authorise both, in order to use two independent instances? Just a crazy thought.


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## Michael K. Bain (Sep 16, 2014)

Enyak @ Sun Sep 14 said:


> However, are you guys getting some sort of impulse noise in the Concert rooms? I am getting kind of a uniform "klack!"-distortion sound when playing sounds with VERY sharp attack in the high frequencies, for example Celesta. It sounds like all the soundwaves are crashing against the wall at the same time and kind of producing a light distortion effect.


Yes, I hear that with a VSL spiccato violin ensemble. It's very noticeable.


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## EwigWanderer (Sep 17, 2014)

Hi,

I did a test with VSS2. Here are 4 different versions. 

I'm in the middle of testing Hollywood Brass gold which I got few days ago and played around with Superman Theme so I though I will test VSS2 with that. I'm not sure is it allowed to use this music here? If not I will remove links.


Raw (just HB gold): https://app.box.com/s/2rctx4woky0sjqvtpjmo
With VSS2: https://app.box.com/s/keps3r8nikw725ggb95b

Raw+spaces reverb: https://app.box.com/s/oynw94ku5as1rtv4z76x
Raw+Spaces+VSS2: https://app.box.com/s/38ir5v9l4zz83g4qar8r


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## Mahlon (Sep 18, 2014)

EwigWanderer @ Wed Sep 17 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I did a test with VSS2. Here are 4 different versions.
> 
> ...



Not that you've asked for opinions, but here I go  -- I think the one, Raw+Spaces, is the keeper. Sounds clean and (dare I say it?) Spacious.

Thanks for the comparison.

Mahlon


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## EwigWanderer (Sep 18, 2014)

Thanks Mahlon. I like that version too. I think you can have better results with VSS but this was done without any editing and using the included presets. Just to try it out.


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## JFK (Sep 18, 2014)

I'm confused; I've never seen this topic in my life, yet I was subscribed to it?


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## Creston (Sep 18, 2014)

JFK @ Thu Sep 18 said:


> I'm confused; I've never seen this topic in my life, yet I was subscribed to it?



Yeah, same with me.


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## Diffusor (Sep 18, 2014)

Same here.


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## Pedro Camacho (Sep 18, 2014)

Same...!!


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## kj.metissage (Sep 18, 2014)

Me too !


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## argitoth (Sep 18, 2014)

same.


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## Synesthesia (Sep 18, 2014)

Same here! This is seriously interfering with my drinking of fine wine.

Someone needs to lose their job over this.

DAMMIT!


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## guydoingmusic (Sep 18, 2014)

Blakus @ Sat Sep 13 said:


> brett @ Sun Sep 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know if there is a way to open completely independent instances of VSS2?
> ...



I have found a way to achieve this. You will need Vienna Ensemble Pro to do it though... I am using Cubase 7.5 and VEP5 to do this

For mic set 1 - Insert VSS2 into the FX rack of VEP of the channels you want on this mic set

For mic set 2 - Insert VSS2 into your DAW's FX/insert rack on the instruments you want to use this mic set with.

Both will work independently of each other with all parameters.


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## chickeneps (Sep 18, 2014)

Same here. Must be a hack of phpBB - not uncommon.

Hey, I usually don't post on forums but HALLO to everyone here.


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## Per Lichtman (Sep 18, 2014)

@chickeneps Hey Gart, good to see you. 

@brett @blakus @guydoingmusic I'm not sure about other hosts, but in Reaper I've been able to do the same thing with other plug-ins using the option to run every plug-in its own process. If anyone that was looking to do that needs instructions, just let me know.


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## Carbs (Sep 18, 2014)

Maybe there is some like super deep life lessons to be gleaned from Mahlon's reply for us all to have been divinely subscribed to this incredibly important thread!

:D


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## Carbs (Sep 18, 2014)

....either that or maybe we just all had our identities stolen or something...


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## quantum7 (Sep 18, 2014)

Just disturbed my _fine_ beer drinking!!!!! 



Synesthesia @ Thu Sep 18 said:


> Same here! This is seriously interfering with my drinking of fine wine.
> 
> Someone needs to lose their job over this.
> 
> DAMMIT!


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## Steve Steele (Sep 18, 2014)

Hmm. What are we talking about here?


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## pixel (Sep 18, 2014)

vss what? What im doing here? Suspicious ;> 
Heey! I'm dringing some nice wine too, cheers! :D


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## edteneyck (Sep 18, 2014)

I too am checking in to see what this topic is that I'm following. I figured it was a topic i forgot about. Might as well catch up.


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## doubleattack (Sep 18, 2014)

JFK @ Thu 18 Sep said:


> I'm confused; I've never seen this topic in my life, yet I was subscribed to it?



+1

:?:


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## fortec (Sep 18, 2014)

Curious. I've been auto-subbed to this thread as well.


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## davidmesiha (Sep 18, 2014)

is anyone noticing that VSS2 is dulling things a little? I mean I love what it does do, but I was wondering if that's me screwing things up or something else.

so far here are the problems I notice

1) overall things get a little dull (should I mess with the air absorption setting then?)
2) some libraries with very sharp attacks (like some drum libraries from Sample Logic) are behaving strangely where I hear a slap back and things sound much further than I expect based on the settings.

Now to be fair and exact I could be making an error somewhere else in my effects chain, the way I have things set up is using mostly VSL.

the chain is as such VSL instrument track (let's say Violins) with VSS2 inserted on the track and using corresponding VSS2 preset. The main output of the channel is going to the master and an send (post fader) sends the signal to a bus which has an instance of QL Spaces with the VL_VA preset and dry turned down to 0 while wet is 100%.

I also have a general reverb (the main room) where all instruments and sections also go through and finally a third reverb with a small amount that is like a Lexicon Desk reverb.

any hints, directions or your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Overall, it is a fantastic plugin, specially at the price.

David


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## thared33 (Sep 18, 2014)

I haven't logged into this place in eons until I got the topic watching notification in my email. I thought someone must've stolen my account but it appears everyone is getting it. This is my first post on the forum now that I think of it.


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## Carbs (Sep 18, 2014)

Got ourselves a good ol' fashion mystery!! Scooby Doo where u be at dog!?!?


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## brett (Sep 18, 2014)

Per Lichtman @ Fri Sep 19 said:


> @chickeneps Hey Gart, good to see you.
> 
> @brett @blakus @guydoingmusic I'm not sure about other hosts, but in Reaper I've been able to do the same thing with other plug-ins using the option to run every plug-in its own process. If anyone that was looking to do that needs instructions, just let me know.



That's a big +1 from me. Instructions would be much appreciated. Still no response from parallax support so keen for a workaround. Cheers


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## Inceptic (Sep 18, 2014)

This place totally got hacked. It's the only explanation. ~o)


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## paulmatthew (Sep 18, 2014)

I was watching TV , now apparently I'm watching this topic. :D Obviously a glitch with the site. At least we get a laugh from all of the comments about it.


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## shapeshifter00 (Sep 18, 2014)

Same happened to me Paul, got mail about it


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## paulmatthew (Sep 18, 2014)

shapeshifter00 @ Thu Sep 18 said:


> Same happened to me Paul, got mail about it



I'm pretty sure everyone got an email about it :lol:


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## Musical Gym (Sep 18, 2014)

How did I get here? I no subscribey neither.


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## fortec (Sep 18, 2014)

Great to see everyone taking it with good humour though....Couple of other forums I could think of where this wouldn't be the case.


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## pixel (Sep 18, 2014)

Musical Gym @ Fri Sep 19 said:


> How did I get here? I no subscribey neither.



like many of us  
maybe www finally got a soul and s/he want to bring us all to this place for some purpose? :D


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## fortec (Sep 18, 2014)

And now I've actually checked out VSS. Looks veeeery interesting. Maybe this auto sub thing is a ploy by the Parralax Audio??


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## Casiquire (Sep 18, 2014)

Parallax and Mahlon are in this together. I was a private eye back in my day, I've seen this sort of thing dozens of times before. Nothing gets by me.


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## Tag (Sep 19, 2014)

Haha, I did not even know what Vss 2 is till now.


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## GP_Hawk (Sep 22, 2014)

Synesthesia @ Thu Sep 18 said:


> Same here! This is seriously interfering with my drinking of fine wine.
> 
> Someone needs to lose their job over this.
> 
> DAMMIT!



Same here ???


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## GP_Hawk (Sep 22, 2014)

Synesthesia @ Thu Sep 18 said:


> Same here! This is seriously interfering with my drinking of fine wine.
> 
> Someone needs to lose their job over this.
> 
> DAMMIT!



Same here ???


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## anp27 (Sep 22, 2014)

So not cool that I am somehow subscribed to this thread.

VI Control Forum, shame on you.


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## lucor (Sep 22, 2014)

People need to chill out, stuff like this can happen. And it's not like 1 email is the end of the world.


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## shapeshifter00 (Sep 22, 2014)

I think people are chil about it. I feel it is a lot of sarcasm and humor written about it. It is a forum after all, and everyone loves a bit of trolling :o


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## Lenny13 (Sep 30, 2014)

Hello,

Just a quick question to VSS users. Many libraries have multiple mics position : room, close etc... Which one do you use when you put VSS as an insert ? 
It's something that confuse me. As I see it, the Room mic is used for giving a sense of space with the reverb of the place instruments were recorded.

I if use room mic position + VSS + a reverb tail from a reverb plugin, do I stack two reverbs (instrument recorded in one place + another reverb that simulate another one) ?

How do you use it. Close or Room mics ?

Thanks


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## Jonathan Moray (Sep 30, 2014)

Depends. Have you tried the free demo? In the demo there's no limitations so you can try all possible combinations and see what works best. The presets are also great and they will tell you which microphone position that the preset was made for.
The presets for EastWest Hollywood Brass are made to be used with the "Main" mic, Orchestral Tools it's the "Mixed" mic and for Spitfire it's the "Tree" mic. That's because different libraries have different mic positions. Some libraries have close to no room ambiance in them at all (SampleModeling, LASS) so you'll have use use a lot of the wet signal, and some have lots of room ambiance. (Spitfire) So you will have to use your ears. Find a libraries that sounds good and use that as a starting point for the other libraries.
I use it on all my libraries even though the effect is negligible on some, but I just like to be able to see my whole orchestra in the plugin and be able to move them around if I so please.
You will have to use your ears.

After VSS2 I send my sections (Different send levels depending on the library) to a reverb to glue it all together.

Hope this makes sense.


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## Heath (Oct 3, 2014)

I'm a Cubase and VSS 1 user. I have only had chance to demo VSS2 for a few minutes, but I can already see that I, for one, am going to need a tutorial for this. Certainly, the proper routing within Cubase needs to be explained.

I'm sure VSS2 will delight me, so I'm looking forward to the tutorials.


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 3, 2014)

I've been trying out VSS2 in Cubase 7.5 for the last couple of weeks. And I don't think it's that hard to get it up and running, the routing is super simple. The hard part for me is using it with different libraries. I'm hoping for more presets. :wink:

Anyhow the way I use it, now I don't know if it's the right but I think it works great, I just load one instance of VSS2 for each instrument. Then each instrument will show up in VSS as its own little blob that you can position on the stage.
Let's say you have a template with only strings: Vlns I, Vlns II, Vlas, Vc and Db. Then I would add VSS2 to each of those, and from VSS2 send it to a nice reverb. That's pretty much it for the routing.

There's probably more ways to do it but this is the way I do it.


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## Heath (Oct 3, 2014)

Thanks Jonathan. So you put in VSS2 as an insert effect on each instrument channel within the mixer, then each instance of VSS2, plus any changes you make, "reports" and updates to all other instances. Thus all VSS2 instances can be edited from any one instance. Is that right?

Insert or is it send?


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 3, 2014)

Precisely! It's just that easy. The way the system is build is amazing! You don't have to open all the instances of the plugin to make changes. You just add one instance to each channel and then you can open which ever instance you want and make changes to all the other instances.

Insert. The footprint of the plugin is small enough that I can use it as a insert on every channel without noticing much cpu difference. And then you can change the mix/wet from within the plugin.


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## Heath (Oct 3, 2014)

Ok. I'll try it again later tonight. I did notice a problem yesterday with panning an instrument within VSS2, although I probably wasn't doing it right. So, you can achieve full left/right paning (the whole point of it I guess)? Do you have to do any panning on the instrument's Cubase channel or should everything be left centered? 

I presume you don't have to do mono collapses for stereo instruments any more, and that's done automatically within VSS2, yeah?


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## Will Blackburn (Oct 8, 2014)

Hey guys just wondering - I can't see any chair presets for LASS in the new vss2 pro. Do i just use Cello ensemble for example on all of the Cello chairs or am i supposed to transfer the VSS1 presets over to the new plugin? Or perhaps needn't i bother and just use the cello ensemble preset on the Cello group bus i have in my template? 

Thanks for any help.


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## Zelorkq (Oct 8, 2014)

Can anyone comment on VSS2 vs MIR Pro? I know it's not the most perfect comparison out there, because MIR was recorded differently, but there are no plugins around that are that similar in this regard and VSS2 has imho copied MIR in certain regards harhar 

I must admit I get good results with VSS2 and the update is a huge improvement, congratulations!

I'm a MIR Pro user and I've tried VSS2 (combined with certain reverbs, I've played around a LOT, I've tried every mic and every room, directivity, width, additional reverb, you name it...) and I still didn't get close to that real room sound and depth that MIR Pro gives you (VSL and non-VSL products). Anyone else who has tried this comparison? Can you get better results with VSS2?
Thanks

Regards


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## Sid Francis (Oct 8, 2014)

I do not understand why you just don´t use MIR Pro if it sounds better for you and you own it anyway??


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## Zelorkq (Oct 8, 2014)

Well I do use MIR Pro and I'm not going to stop using it  - Currently it is the best plugin of its kind (personal opinion).

The main thing for me was that MIR Pro kills my CPU and cost me dearly so I was looking for an alternative. Here comes VSS2 and gives us that alternative. However, I didn't get the sound I was looking for, which is why I'm sticking with MIR Pro. But I'd be interested in seeing what others can come up with, or how they interpret the sound.


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 8, 2014)

Upload the raw files. Upload a dry version no MIR or VSS. In wav. Then upload a MIR version you really like. Post those two and I would like to see what I could accomplish with VSS. Would be a fun exercise for me. 

@Sid I think the reason why someone would want to use VSS over MIR is because of the strain that MIR put on the computer, VSS is MUCH less taxing.


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## Sid Francis (Oct 8, 2014)

Ah, I see. But MIR also has to compute the tail, which is probably a lot more demanding than only the (even if quick) early delays. 

The challenge seems very interesting to me: The comparisons with SPAT (in the audio demos that some V.I. user provided) were clearly in favor for VSS for me, though SPAT is dealt as the ultimate positioner. I would be very interested in a comparison between MIR and VSS + additional tail (It has to be a quality tail though to keep it fair) But even with Spaces ,where additional ER are added, I get good results.


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 8, 2014)

Precisely Sid!  I haven't really figured out which reverb to use with VSS to get the best result, and sadly I don't own Spaces - yet. Also I'm kind of on the fence about having the tail come from a Convolution reverb, since I find most of them lifeless, because - well, they mostly are. :roll:
As of now I much rather have the tail come from a good algorithmic reverb. If you know what you're doing you can get a more lively sound and you have much more freedom with algorithmic. Although it takes more time to get something sounding realistic, and if you're trying to create something that sounds like a real space it's most often than not a real pain in the a**. :wink:


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## Heath (Oct 8, 2014)

I finally figured VSS2 out, pretty much, and bought the upgrade. Very pleased so far. 

It might be worth mentioning that I am using it right now on a real orchestral recording I made a couple of weeks ago - four discrete tracks of Zoom H6 sound. I had close-mic'd the sections to achieve a very clear and very dry recording. Now I'm using VSS2 to add back spatial depth to each section, with a Lexicon Native PCM reverb for the tail. The results have exceeded my expectations. Very pleasing.


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## Zelorkq (Oct 9, 2014)

Ok I've done a quick 15sec sketch

https://www.mediafire.com/?zfqdne6fb4el7qp

1 - Trumpets (Hollywood Brass) Dry
1 - Trumpets (Hollywood Brass) MIR1
1 - Trumpets (Hollywood Brass) MIR2
2 - Violins (Dimension Strings) Dry
2 - Violins (Dimension Strings) MIR1
2 - Violins (Dimension Strings) MIR2

They both play the same melody, with slight adjustments to the articulations and dynamics.
- Don't judge me for my playing :D
- I usually layer in some way or another, but I thought keeping it to one library's instrument is better for this comparison 
- EDIT: MIR Pro room is the Teldex Studio
- EDIT: There might be a bit too much reverb, now that I listen to it again, that could be because of the secondary mic I've been experimenting with...

Both versions have the completely dry sound, MIR1 with my new MIR setup (I've been playing around in the last two weeks with the secondary microphones as well, it might not be perfect yet haha) and MIR2 with a slightly shorter MIR tail, but with added MIRacle (a bit of an extra reverb).

@Jonathan, I'd be interested in what you can come up with your VSS2 magic. I know everybody has a different preference when it comes to placement and reverb, but maybe I simply cannot use VSS2 correctly haha. I hope I can use MIR correctly :shock: 

Regards


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## kfirpr (Oct 9, 2014)

I just uploaded a track which almost all of the instruments are spaced with VSS2, You really need not to overdue it because you loose allot of depth so if you use patches inside the program lower the early level, and use Deca Tree mic. (thanks to some members here who help me point it out)

Here is the track if anyone interested:
https://soundcloud.com/perezianproduction/fire-angel-1


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## epmalm (Oct 9, 2014)

Could someone explain to me the point of this plugin for HS users? Aren't most (all?) string/orchestral libraries already "placed" in their proper space?


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 9, 2014)

Well depends... It's not really as much about the "placement" as it is putting the whole orchestra in a room. (The reverb/early reflections) But if you have all libraries from the same developer, for example EW, then you don't have to worry about it as much because they are already seated and recorded in the same room. So it's not as useful, it's still useful though. Because you might feel that the EW samples lack reverb/room (they mostly don't), that they are a bit too dry for your taste, that the samples are too "in your face". So then you might want to try and push them back a bit, that's where this plugin comes in. It will make them feel further away by adding early reflections.
Also if you have libraries from different developers this plugin can help blend them together.

Download the files that Zelorkq posted and listen to the ones with EW HB. One of them is dry and the two others are processed with MIR. (Another program like VSS)

Hopes that gives you a little clarity.


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## Michael K. Bain (Oct 9, 2014)

epmalm @ Thu Oct 09 said:


> Could someone explain to me the point of this plugin for HS users? Aren't most (all?) string/orchestral libraries already "placed" in their proper space?



I use it with VSL Special Edition instruments, which are not placed in their proper space by default. Before VSS, I placed everything manually in Ensemble, which was a big hassle.


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## Felipe Opazo (Oct 9, 2014)

Percy Faith Fan @ Thu Oct 09 said:


> epmalm @ Thu Oct 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Could someone explain to me the point of this plugin for HS users? Aren't most (all?) string/orchestral libraries already "placed" in their proper space?
> ...



Have you tried MIRx? it works great with every VSL library. I got it for Dimension Strings but it also gave new life to my Special Edition instruments.


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## Michael K. Bain (Oct 9, 2014)

Felipe Opazo @ Thu Oct 09 said:


> Percy Faith Fan @ Thu Oct 09 said:
> 
> 
> > epmalm @ Thu Oct 09 said:
> ...



I appreciate the tip, but I love VSS and VSS 2. It's a lot less expensive than MIR and it suits my needs fine.


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## Sid Francis (Oct 9, 2014)

Zelorkq: thank you for the files. Absolutely sufficient. Yes, washed in reverb  It would be a wonder if Jonathan could not come up with a more convincing version. If he doesn´t: I could  Only don´t have the time unfortunately. Really regret this.


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 9, 2014)

Finally had some time to play around with the files. I'm mildly satisfied... Not completely, but satisfied enough for me to post it here. Might work more on it later and see what more I can do. 

The MIR version is absolutely drenched in reverb, still sounds pretty good though.

Anyway. What I tried to do was to make the VSS version sound close to the MIR version, but not completely - I changed some things to try and make it sound a little better. I only used one of the MIR versions as a reference. Then I played around with the VSS settings and added a tail. I'm not really sure which one I think sounds the best yet and I'm not going to make a decision since I'm starting to get ear fatigued.

I wanna play a game. As you might see I have not labeled the Soundcloud tracks so you guys don't know which track is which. So what I want you guys to do is tell me which one sound the best to you and which one you think is the MIR version and which one is the VSS version. You might also wonder what's up with the third track - well guess what that tracks. :wink:

https://soundcloud.com/jonathan-moray/s ... 01/s-Q7NC9

Also this is done with low budget monitors... And I find my monitors not be super revealing when working with reverb. :(

I would really like to hear what you can do with this Sid. :D


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## Sid Francis (Oct 9, 2014)

I think that the original MIR version is not only too reverb drenched but does not deliver that special "they are really in the room" feeling the developers of MIR are claiming to give with that program. So I would not even try to imitate that result but produce something different that sounds a bit more transparent. Perhaps VSS + tail neither is able to deliver that taste of reality but could perhaps produce something aesthetically more satisfying?
Did these sentences make sense? I am already a quite tired non-native speaker... 8) 

More tomorrow .-)


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## Felipe Opazo (Oct 9, 2014)

Percy Faith Fan @ Thu Oct 09 said:


> Felipe Opazo @ Thu Oct 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Percy Faith Fan @ Thu Oct 09 said:
> ...



Don't get my wrong, i think i'm gonna get VSS 2 too, but i was not talking about the super expensive MIR Pro but about MIRx which is the inexpensive version where you can get just one room (in my case Teldex Studio) and it has presets for every VSL instrument (EQ+positioning).


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## Zelorkq (Oct 9, 2014)

@Sid Well the ..MIR2 version is less drenched in reverb, MIR1 definitely has a bit too much, I'm not denying that  But as I mentioned I was experimenting with the secondary microphone there, even though I thought I was happy haha. Without it (so only the main mic was enabled) the reverb is definitely less.

I must say Jonathan your results are much better than my VSS2 results  How did you set it up to sound like that? And what reverb/tail did you use?

Well then, let's play your little game. The way I see it (or hear it that is):
Trumpets_1 is VSS2?
Trumpets_2 is none of them?
Trumpets_3 is MIR Pro.

I don't have the best speakers or headphones  but I'd say Trumpets_1 is the most pleasing.

I'll have to give VSS2 another try and experiment more. Or maybe I'm not getting the best out of MIR Pro :roll: as I definitely know that others have better MIR results than I do. Don't judge the product with my faults


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## Michael K. Bain (Oct 9, 2014)

Felipe Opazo @ Thu Oct 09 said:


> Don't get my wrong, i think i'm gonna get VSS 2 too, but i was not talking about the super expensive MIR Pro but about MIRx which is the inexpensive version where you can get just one room (in my case Teldex Studio) and it has presets for every VSL instrument (EQ+positioning).



That looks like good plugin, but I don't have Ensemble Pro or Instruments Pro. Plus, I really wouldn't have use for a scoring stage. I like orchestra hall reverb.


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## muk (Oct 10, 2014)

Trumpets_1 is my favourite. It sounds transparent and clear.

Trumpets_2 has too long a tail for my ears. Somehow the early reflections and the tail don't match. The trumpet seems to be relatively close, but then there's that long tail that seems to come from a completely different room.

Trumpets_3 has simply too much reverb for my taste.


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 10, 2014)

Yes, you guys are of course right. The first one is VSS, the third one is MIR and the second one is actually a custom IR. The tail for both the first and third is also a custom IR. The first one is the best one IMO. I like the space it creates and it feels like it's in a room. But I think I might be able to make it sound even better.
For some reason the second one makes the trumpet sound too thick, I might have to eq out some of the low end. (I did eq all the tracks because they all had some low rumble, from around 200hz and below.) The wet level of the early reflections is quite low I think. Muk the first and third one uses the same tail although I think the mix level is higher on the third one. 
I have to agree with Sid, I'm not very fond of the MIR version either. And in my honest opinion it's definitely not worth the price difference. Plus what I did could be done with the lite version. I didn't use any of the microphone or rooms from the pro version. :D


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## muk (Oct 10, 2014)

Listening to the official Mirx demos I must say that I'm not too fond of the sound. Too bad, because the concept is great.
If I find the time over the weekend I'll try to make a version with Origami. Basically it is similar to VSS in that you can visually place a source on the stage. It works for individual sources though, so you don't see all instruments together on the stage. It's convolution like MIR, but you can load custom IRs.


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## Sid Francis (Oct 10, 2014)

I own Origami and it was the most pleasing positioner to use up to the time when it began to behave as a ...aah...sonical bitch  Crashes over crashes. In the end 
I could not even install it any more and support was no help at all. So I gave it up. But room-illusion wise it is top notch


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## muk (Oct 12, 2014)

Ok, here is my go with Origami. First you hear one of the included presets. For the second one I used a custom IR:

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F171783047&secret_url=false[/flash]


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## Zelorkq (Oct 12, 2014)

Nice one muk! Your second one with your own IR is definitely better, sounds good. But maybe it's a bit empty, a bit more wet level maybe (just my opinion)? I didn't even know of Origami before this thread 
I do however find that the microphone position changes a wee bit here and there, as if it would go slightly left, slightly right at times. Or is it just me?...

I've quickly done one more:
https://soundcloud.com/michailnowakcomp ... ew/s-cq9KT

If I play all of the versions one after another, this is the one I'd prefer 
I took a different approach this time, (still MIR tho :D) After doing this one, I find Jonathan's VSS2 track has too much reverb as well (nevermind my early MIR version haha).

No matter, I wanted to share this example as well, everyone can choose which one they like the most. It seems that all of these tools are great to use and it's not that easy getting the best out of them, it still takes a lot of time getting them set up correctly. But it's definitely well worth the effort.


Regards


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## Sid Francis (Oct 12, 2014)

very good, Zelorkq! Though I also think that the Origami one with the custom impulse and as you said a little bit more wet would be my choice.


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## muk (Oct 13, 2014)

Very nice zelorkq. That sounds convincing and has just the right amount of reverb for my taste.
For better comparison I've reworked my second example. Here it is with a bit more tail, still using Origami and a custom IR:


[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F171959656&secret_url=false[/flash]


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## Zelorkq (Oct 15, 2014)

Sounds great!

Just one thing bothers me. The Trumpet sound jumps a bit to the left at times, especially at around 7sec. Not sure if that's phasing or cancellation of sorts.
But other than that, sounds great!


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## constaneum (Oct 26, 2014)

Has anyone tried out Cinesample's Cinebrass Core with VSS2? I personally felt the default VSS preset for Cinebrass Core's Trumpets a bit compressed and thin. Sometimes, it sounds a bit like Muted Trumpet sound instead of normal trumpet sound especially when you use the max Dynamics (CC1). Personally felt that the trumpet sounds better without VSS2. However, I didn't have this problem with the Horns, Trombones , Tuba & Bass Trombones. Just only the trumpets. Anyone has this issue? Thanks


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## Ah_dziz (Oct 26, 2014)

constaneum @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> Has anyone tried out Cinesample's Cinebrass Core with VSS2? I personally felt the default VSS preset for Cinebrass Core's Trumpets a bit compressed and thin. Sometimes, it sounds a bit like Muted Trumpet sound instead of normal trumpet sound especially when you use the max Dynamics (CC1). Personally felt that the trumpet sounds better without VSS2. However, I didn't have this problem with the Horns, Trombones , Tuba & Bass Trombones. Just only the trumpets. Anyone has this issue? Thanks



I had the muted sound with high dynamics from vss1 when using the SM French horn. I realized that by default the horn library had some early reflections added. I got rid of them and bam problem solved with the phasey muted type sound. I find that libraries that are anything other than super dry don't react well with the er portion of vss so I mostly use it for the every detailed panning and then use the tail for adding them to the overall room situation with the rest of the instruments. 

This upgrade to pro will be a no brainer for me. I produced some of the best score I've ever done sound wise using vss1 and altiverb for my tails. The new rooms will be amazing for setting up for other genres I produce in. I can't wait to set up a live band in the recording studio set up. Also if you are the sort that incorporates synths into your scoring vss can really do something special to a pulsing sequence or a big synth whoosh that you want to add in to your track. For the more hybrid style tracks in my more recent scores I would put any non sub sounds through vss to pan and position it as well as to give the sound a sense of actually moving some air but then keeping it totally dry with regards to the tail sends. Another thing that works well is putting a send on a synth sound before vss and processing that with a delay and some type of rich slow modulation effect so that your echoes pop right up in your face while the main body of the sound still is positioned along with the rest of the instruments.

Super excited about this. I might have to wait till my next ASCAP check to grab it though as I just went on a strummed instrument buying rampage lol.

JJ


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## constaneum (Oct 27, 2014)

You've mentioned something about getting rid of the early reflections added in the horn library?? Are we able to get rid of "Early reflections" within a sample library? I thought everything is recorded with or without it by default. I only know VSS2 has this "early reflection" setting which you can play around with it. Unless you're telling me to disable the "Early Reflection" button inside VSS2? Is that what you're referring to ?


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## Ah_dziz (Oct 27, 2014)

The sample modeling libraries are recorded in a very non conventional way in a completely dead room. They added special early reflection impulse responses starting with the Trombone library because people didn't like how unnaturally dry they sounded. So yep you can just turn off the early reflections in any of the sample modeling libraries that have them.. For other libraries I would use the closest mic they have if you are gonna run them through this pluginMc or anything other than panning.

JJ


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 27, 2014)

I'm going to have to completely disagree with Ah_dziz.

I think that this plugin should compliment the early reflections of the libraries not replace them. Sure you could go the all close mic route and only use the close mics on all your libraries and then add the ers back in with a plugin like this, but I personally get better results when I work from the tree mic or something a bit further away then a close mic.
But in the case of SampleModeling you don't have much choice. So here I agree: I think you should disable the ers and fully use VSS instead.


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