# Sustain pedal issue.....One more time .....detailed !!



## synthnut1 (Apr 7, 2017)

I have had issues with my sustain pedal on a Sampletekk Black Grand MkII piano for some time now ....I am running Kontakt 5.6.6 and the Black Grand program is Ver 4 ..It downloaded fine , and went into Kontakt 5.6.6 fine , except for one problem ....The sustain pedal is very pronounced and it's not the noise that the pedal can be adjusted for from the GUI , it's a very abrupt change in pedaling ...Not smooth at all ...I read about similar situations and was told to 

Click on the wrench icon , and click on the Script Editor ....Once in the Script Editor , go to the upper left corner you will see a box with "preset" and an arrow ....Click on that and go to"Factory " and then go to "Utilities" and on to "Midi Monitor " .....Press the sustain pedal a few times ....Once you do this save what you just did .....

I have done this and now the sustain pedal works just fine , BUT the wallpaper for the GUI is now GONE !!..... There is no separate folder for wallpaper in Kontakt 5.6.6 and I can't adjust anything in the program because I have no GUI ....????.....

I took everything out of the folder , and put everything in fresh again ...

BG mkII Samples 
BG mkII nkc
BG nki
BG nkr

When I go back to Kontakt and choose the Black Grand MkII it comes up fine with the GUI and all , BUT I"M BACK with the SUSTAIN PEDAL PROBLEM !!......

Please help ....I'm at my wit's end here .....It's a beautiful piano and I would love to be able to use it .....Thanks in advance ......Sincerely, Jim


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## synthnut1 (Apr 9, 2017)

Geesh !!....Nobody else has had this issue ? .........


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## robh (Apr 9, 2017)

I don't have that particular Sampletekk piano, so I can't help directly, but I'll try anyway. I think I need some clarification as to what you are doing - forgive me if some of the questions seem silly:


> Click on the wrench icon , and click on the Script Editor ....Once in the Script Editor , go to the upper left corner you will see a box with "preset" and an arrow ....Click on that and go to"Factory " and then go to "Utilities" and on to "Midi Monitor " .....Press the sustain pedal a few times ....Once you do this save what you just did .....


You are putting the MIDI Monitor script in an empty slot? Or are you replacing the script in slot 1?


> BUT the wallpaper for the GUI is now GONE !!..... There is no separate folder for wallpaper in Kontakt 5.6.6 and I can't adjust anything in the program because I have no GUI ....????.....


This symptom may be related to my first question, but if you have put the monitor script in slot 2, does the GUI disappear immediately when you close the wrench? Or only when you reload the newly saved instrument?
Are you saving the instrument after you close the wrench? That should give you the option to save the patch as a different name so you don't lose the original - and don't get into so much grief. (I don't think saving from 'inside' allows you to do that.)

Rob


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## synthnut1 (Apr 9, 2017)

Hi Rob,
Thanks for this info ....What I am trying to accomplish is to stop the strange sustain pedal behavior ....I will go thru the entire situation again , so I can better answer your questions ....I had no idea that by pressing on the sustain pedal a few times , that I was putting the MIDI Monitor into an empty slot ....I have also NOT changed the name when I close the wrench ....The name is left the same .....Perhaps this is the problem ? ....I'll have to check it out to find out ...

I'm not sure when, or at what point , the GUI disappears ....I'll have to check to see if it's visible after each step I take and I will get back to you ...I wish I understood more about the actual inner workings of Kontakt ....This is where I am at a loss ... I'll get back to you ....Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time helping me out on this ...It's been a constant problem and there are other piano programs that act the same way that I have simply avoided because of behavior after doing this workaround ......Thanks again , and I'll get back to you ....Sincerely, Jim


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## synthnut1 (Apr 9, 2017)

Hi Rob,
I click on the wrench Icon , and go to the script editor and click on it .....Now that I am paying attention , I see that the preset list etc. goes into the first slot ..At this point , if I click on the wrench icon, the GUI is still there .....I click on the wrench Icon again and I go back to looking at the first slot ....I hit the wrench Icon again just to double check that the GUI is still there and it is .....Now I go back to the first slot and I go to presets , utilities , midi monitor....At this point I hit my sustain pedal a few times and see that CC #64 goes from 0-127 ( like it should ) ...I play the piano , and it works GREAT !!.... I click on the piano icon and the wrench Icon and NO GUI !!!..... I hit the X to close out of the piano , and it asks me if I want to rename it ....I do , and after saving I see that after going out of Kontakt and then loading it again that I have have my old program and the newly named program also .... The newly named has no GUI but the sustain works fine, and the old program has the GUI but the susatain pedal does not work correctly ....
Any idea what I'm doing wrong ? .....Thanks again for your help ...Sincerely, Jim


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## synthnut1 (Apr 9, 2017)

Hi Rob,
I tried putting the sustain pedal in the 2nd slot and it did not even show the pedal ...I could hear it working , but it did not show the CC64 , nor the 0-127 reading as slot 1 did ..... The GUI was still working however after all was said and done , but the sustain pedal was still wonky ..Jim


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## Tod (Apr 9, 2017)

Hi Jim, I actually don't have a clue what you're doing, but it sounds like the script in slot-1 is getting overwritten. Are you actually changing the script or replacing it? Somehow it appears that the wallpaper is being changed.

If your not replacing the script, then open the script editor for the script that's working okay with the GUI. Look for "$CONTROL_PAR_PICTURE", it's usually up closer to the top. If you find it, copy that whole line and paste it in a text editor.

Then do your thing with the pedal so that it works. After that open the script editor agian and look for "$CONTROL_PAR_PICTURE". If it's there, it will have the filename of the picture in parenthesis. Make sure it's the same, but if it either, isn't there, or has a different name, replace it with the one you copied.

Heh heh, I don't have a clue whether it will work, but somehow the picture is getting overwritten.


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## robh (Apr 9, 2017)

Hi Jim,

If you put the monitor script in the 1st slot, then you will lose the original scripting and GUI.
I can think of two things you could do - and since I'm "flying blind" so to speak, I can't guarantee it will work.
1. Make all the parameter adjustments you want - prior to doing the midi monitor thing, then save it. You'll have the sound you want with the working pedal at least for that project. 
2. Hm. I'll hold off on this recommendation because I'm not sure exactly what you are experiencing. You did say it is not the pedalling sounds, correct? Do you mean it is the sound of the piano while the pedal is down?

Rob


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## robh (Apr 9, 2017)

After a bit of experimentation with my Sampletekk piano (I have TVBO) I'll ask this: What is the setting you have on the "Res Vol" control? If you have that cranked all the way up, then that might explain the abruptness you described as I hear that in TVBO with that control all the way up. Another control you may need to experiment with is the "Shimmer." Those two sort of work together.

Rob


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## synthnut1 (Apr 9, 2017)

Rob,
After all this time , I have just now realized (after your post ) how the two controls ( Res Vol , and Shimmer ) work together , and turning one up SOMETIMES will bring the other one with it , and the same bring one down SOMETIMES brings the other one with it .....The beauty of the MkII sound is by using the controls given ....including the ResVol and the Shimmer controls .....However , when turning them down, they don't always come down together .....The Res Vol was the culprit .....When I looked at the program when I could see the GUI , my Res Vol was all the way up , and by going into the script editor and checking the sustain pedal , it must have cleared the GUI and also brought the controls down to a non existent state so the sound while not making that wonky sustain sound , was also more dull sounding ....I thought I had gone thru all the GUI controls before and still having the problem but as I said , I was not aware of the 2 controls working together as they do .... I'm not sure that combining them is a good thing, and certainly not in my case .... Thank You SO MUCH for pointing this out to me ....It has saved me a HUGE headache because I really do like the Black Grand mkII as it IS a great sounding piano ....I wish I could peg the Res Vol and not get those nasty artifacts when using the pedal, as it adds so much dimension to the piano especially when playing an intimate piece ....Thanks again .....I really do appreciate you taking the time ...It really means a lot ......Sincerely, Jim


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## synthnut1 (Apr 9, 2017)

Tod,
Thanks very much for your help ....I did go in and could not find what you had mentioned .... One day I will find someone local that can explain the Kontakt scripting to me so that it makes sense ....It's just a matter of not knowing what I am doing with it is all .....I really need to know what's going on under the hood so to speak ....Thanks again ...Sincerely, Jim


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## robh (Apr 10, 2017)

synthnut1 said:


> Rob,
> After all this time , I have just now realized (after your post ) how the two controls ( Res Vol , and Shimmer ) work together , and turning one up SOMETIMES will bring the other one with it , and the same bring one down SOMETIMES brings the other one with it .....The beauty of the MkII sound is by using the controls given ....including the ResVol and the Shimmer controls .....However , when turning them down, they don't always come down together .....The Res Vol was the culprit .....When I looked at the program when I could see the GUI , my Res Vol was all the way up , and by going into the script editor and checking the sustain pedal , it must have cleared the GUI and also brought the controls down to a non existent state so the sound while not making that wonky sustain sound , was also more dull sounding ....I thought I had gone thru all the GUI controls before and still having the problem but as I said , I was not aware of the 2 controls working together as they do .... I'm not sure that combining them is a good thing, and certainly not in my case .... Thank You SO MUCH for pointing this out to me ....It has saved me a HUGE headache because I really do like the Black Grand mkII as it IS a great sounding piano ....I wish I could peg the Res Vol and not get those nasty artifacts when using the pedal, as it adds so much dimension to the piano especially when playing an intimate piece ....Thanks again .....I really do appreciate you taking the time ...It really means a lot ......Sincerely, Jim


Woo hoo! Glad I could help.
The pdf manual does explain the function of those two parameters and why they work that way:
"The resonance, (in this instrument anyway), is the sound produced when you hit a key with the sustain pedal pressed. What happens when you press the sustain pedal on a piano is that you lift all the dampers from the strings so that all strings on all notes are undamped. When you then hit a key, all strings in the piano will resonate.

Here you set the volume of the resonance that the piano produces when hitting a note, or notes, with all strings undamped.
Set the amount to taste, or turn it up for some really cool effects! 

As described above, you can set the volume of the resonance produced with undamped strings.
Ok, on some pianos, the dampers are a bit worn out and simply don’t damp the strings as they should, so when you are playing with the sustain pedal up, you still get some resonance from the strings. This gives the instrument a shimmering tone that, in some cases might be considered a fault, but in other (this), case are considered a feature. 

With this control you blend in the resonances to notes played with the pedal up. All the way to the right you will actually playing pedal down notes all the time, but experiment with this to find a setting that works with your current musical mode! 

*Res Vol & Shimmer – ganged *

You can’t have a Shimmer that’s louder then the Res Vol. If you could, pressing the pedal would actually produce a lower resonance, and that’s a bit to weird even for me. So, when raising the shimmer and reaching the Res Vol settings, the Res Vol knob will follow." 

Rob


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## synthnut1 (Apr 10, 2017)

Hi Rob 
Thanks again for your help ...If there's anything I can do for you , I will ...This problem has plagued me for so long and I just could not figure it out ....The thing was that when the piano loaded in the default position ( from me changing the Res Vol or not ) it would load with the Res Vol. all the way UP , so it would always come across totally pronounced !!..... Running the Res Vol up to about 2 o'clock is still OK ....Going up too much past that and it starts sounding wonky when playing and using the sustain pedal ....Full Res Vol . is just totally UN acceptable and THIS is what loaded when I decided to play the Black Grand mkII ..... As you say , experimenting with these settings and finding a good balance , makes this Black Grand sound AMAZING !!.... I never really got along well with TBO ...I brought it over from my GigaStudio Library ....Just too big for me .... For my Rock or brighter sounding piano , I use the White Grand mk II .....KILLER piano that I use a lot ......Thanks again for your help ....I feel totally stupid that I did not catch this sooner as you found it for me , but better all the way around that it was indeed found !!.... As I get older , I sometimes can't see something that is right in front of me ...Thankfully it was something simple .....Thanks again ....Sincerely, Jim


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## arznable (Nov 23, 2018)

Hope some owners of SampleTekk piano libraries here can help. Cannot find the answer anywhere including the SampleTekk website. Wondering does the TVBO have half pedalling or continuous sustain pedalling? Or it only has the on/off pedal positions? The website mentioned it has "True Pedalling" and "Real Pedalling", but I have no idea what those are, thanks.


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## robh (Nov 24, 2018)

I strongly suspect it is only on/off. I believe when it refers to "Real" or "True" pedalling, it is samples recorded with the pedal down, and there is also some scripting involved to deal with sympathetic resonance.


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## arznable (Nov 26, 2018)

robh said:


> I strongly suspect it is only on/off.


Oh, I see. Thanks for info, Rob. So, are you feeling handicapped at all when you play with TVBO without half-pedalling? Do you think it is important at all? The sound of TVBO is so lovely, and it is on sale for $49.99 right now. But I am kind of on the fence because it lacks this feature. Please advice, thanks.


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## robh (Nov 26, 2018)

arznable said:


> Oh, I see. Thanks for info, Rob. So, are you feeling handicapped at all when you play with TVBO without half-pedalling? Do you think it is important at all? The sound of TVBO is so lovely, and it is on sale for $49.99 right now. But I am kind of on the fence because it lacks this feature. Please advice, thanks.


I have an older keyboard that only does sustain on/off so, no, I don't feel handicapped at all. I've never needed it in my playing now, or way back when I was doing lessons at an advanced level.


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## arznable (Nov 26, 2018)

robh said:


> I have an older keyboard that only does sustain on/off so, no, I don't feel handicapped at all. I've never needed it in my playing now, or way back when I was doing lessons at an advanced level.


I see, thanks. By the way, do you use other piano sample libraries? Which one do you think is the best sounding and most realistic one that you keep using most of the time?


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## robh (Nov 28, 2018)

arznable said:


> I see, thanks. By the way, do you use other piano sample libraries? Which one do you think is the best sounding and most realistic one that you keep using most of the time?


I have had TVBO for several years now, and only got Pianoteq in the last year or so. Pianoteq is very good and versatile, and fun to just play, but I tend to use the TVBO for most of the pop tracks I end up playing on - mainly because it sits in the mix so well. If I could figure out how to get Pianoteq's YC5 to sound like TVBO, then I'd definitely use Pianoteq all the time.


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## arznable (Dec 3, 2018)

robh said:


> I have had TVBO for several years now, and only got Pianoteq in the last year or so. Pianoteq is very good and versatile, and fun to just play, but I tend to use the TVBO for most of the pop tracks I end up playing on - mainly because it sits in the mix so well. If I could figure out how to get Pianoteq's YC5 to sound like TVBO, then I'd definitely use Pianoteq all the time.


Very curious about in what way Pianoteq is more versatile and why is it more fun to play compared with the TVBO? Thanks.


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## robh (Dec 4, 2018)

Hm .It might simply be "sample fatigue"! I've grown accustomed to TVBO's sound and minor quirks and needed something fresh.
With Pianoteq - I have the Standard version - I can play around with mic positions, number of mics, type of mics, lid up, lid down or lid somewhere in-between. I can adjust the modelling subtly or dramatically. The biggest factor for me is it uses much less memory as it's modelled not sampled.


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## tack (Dec 4, 2018)

arznable said:


> Very curious about in what way Pianoteq is more versatile


Where the sustain pedal is concerned, Pianoteq just responds far more like a real piano than any sample library I've tried, in terms of feel and sound. (VintageD gets pretty close but it's still not right.) Whether or not pedal realism is important seems to be a matter of personal playing style.


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## arznable (Dec 4, 2018)

tack said:


> Where the sustain pedal is concerned, Pianoteq just responds far more like a real piano than any sample library I've tried, in terms of feel and sound. (VintageD gets pretty close but it's still not right.) Whether or not pedal realism is important seems to be a matter of personal playing style.


Does that mean Pianoteq has half-pedalling and continuous sustain pedalling like a real piano does?


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## tack (Dec 4, 2018)

arznable said:


> Does that mean Pianoteq has half-pedalling and continuous sustain pedalling like a real piano does?


And how!


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## tack (Dec 4, 2018)

Fun fact: if your piano supports _release_ velocities (rare, but for example my Kawai CA-67 does), Pianoteq even takes that into account when modeling the release sounds. It's extremely subtle (as it is on a real piano), but it's part of the model.


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## arznable (Dec 10, 2018)

tack said:


> Fun fact: if your piano supports _release_ velocities (rare, but for example my Kawai CA-67 does), Pianoteq even takes that into account when modeling the release sounds. It's extremely subtle (as it is on a real piano), but it's part of the model.


Wow, that's incredible!


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