# Is This the Woodwind Library I've been Looking for?



## robgb (Jan 21, 2022)

Would love to hear from anyone who uses this woodwind library. What you like, what you hate. Because to my ears it sounds pretty fabulous and may well be the library I've been looking for.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 21, 2022)

Yes it is. But I have made my opinion clear for the better part of two years now  

Pros:
- sound and articulation set
- dry
- low on storage

Cons:
- UI takes time / learning curve
- I am a hobbyist, so my opinion is of no value of course


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## doctoremmet (Jan 21, 2022)

Tip: buy the A Clarinet (it is not in the collection but available under Modular).Test that. If you like it, invest more.


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## robgb (Jan 21, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Tip: buy the A Clarinet (it is not in the collection but available under Modular).Test that. If you like it, invest more.



This is truly beautiful.


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## EgM (Jan 21, 2022)

Sounds good! I'm also a fan of dry samples, but man horrible dated UI for something that costs 249€

(Seeing Reaper again gave me PTSD as well...)


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## robgb (Jan 21, 2022)

EgM said:


> Sounds good! I'm also a fan of dry samples, but man horrible dated UI for something that costs 249€
> 
> (Seeing Reaper again gave me PTSD as well...)


Dated UIs bother me, too, but I think I could make an exception in this case.


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## Casiquire (Jan 21, 2022)

As someone who doesn't own it, i can say that it has a really fantastic reputation in these forums. It might not be the prettiest looking option but my impression is that it is like a hidden gem


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## GCT (Jan 22, 2022)

I bought the XSample woodwind library last April as part of 'Complete' when Hans Josef had a sale, (having previously purchased the A clarinet to test). 

In my opinion the sounds are very good. I would concur that the user interface is perhaps not as intuitive as it could be.

Doctoremmet's suggestion to purchase the Clarinet in A in the first instance is a good one.


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## jbuhler (Jan 22, 2022)

GCT said:


> I bought the XSample woodwind library last April as part of 'Complete' when Hans Josef had a sale, (having previously purchased the A clarinet to test).
> 
> In my opinion the sounds are very good. I would concur that the user interface is perhaps not as intuitive as it could be.
> 
> Doctoremmet's suggestion to purchase the Clarinet in A in the first instance is a good one.


Is CC11 reserved in these for the reverb like it is with the Contemporary Solo Strings? I love XCSS but that C11 assignment, which seems to be hard scripted into the library, makes it very hard to use with my work flow.


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## AudioLoco (Jan 23, 2022)

Sounds really nice, never hears about this company before.
The website could do with some work to bring it back from 1998, but the instruments i heard sound really nice...


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## Hans Josef (Jan 24, 2022)

EgM said:


> Sounds good! I'm also a fan of dry samples, but man horrible dated UI for something that costs 249€
> 
> (Seeing Reaper again gave me PTSD as well...)





AudioLoco said:


> Sounds really nice, never hears about this company before.
> The website could do with some work to bring it back from 1998, but the instruments i heard sound really nice...


I didn't know that there were standards for what is considered modern. 
The website was renewed in 2020. Nothing will change anytime soon.


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## AudioLoco (Jan 24, 2022)

Hans Josef said:


> I didn't know that there were standards for what is considered modern.
> The website was renewed in 2020. Nothing will change anytime soon.


Heya Hans, there certainly are standards. I'm not a web designer or anything but it does look dated.
New clients could be deterred just by the looks.
The samples and demos sound really amazing though!!


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## Piotrek K. (Jan 24, 2022)

AudioLoco said:


> New clients could be deterred just by the looks.


@Hans Josef I agree, your web page is your selling space. And based on your page you are selling products past expiration date. But based on opinions here and there your libraries are far from that though and it seems you are super talented dev. If you want to get more visibility and sales you'd need to conduct AB tests and upgrade page based on results + change libraries UI (they really look intimidating).

And please do not take my words as an affront I just know based on my work experience that it does matter how you present your product. Visual simplicity is the key.

But if you are happy with what and how you do things, and your results satisfy you then just ignore me


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## Hans Josef (Jan 24, 2022)

Piotrek K. said:


> @Hans Josef I agree, your web page is your selling space. And based on your page you are selling products past expiration date. But based on opinions here and there your libraries are far from that though and it seems you are super talented dev. If you want to get more visibility and sales you'd need to conduct AB tests and upgrade page based on results + change libraries UI (they really look intimidating).
> 
> And please do not take my words as an affront I just know based on my work experience that it does matter how you present your product. Visual simplicity is the key.
> 
> But if you are happy with what and how you do things, and your results satisfy you then just ignore me


Most UI elements are not needed at all. In fact, they were intended more for me to create new presets with some relative ease. I didn't realize that hardly anyone wants to create their own presets.


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## Consona (Jan 24, 2022)

Wow, listened to the Xsample site demos and these instruments are among the best I've heard!


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## doctoremmet (Jan 24, 2022)

Ha! That’s the typical response, yes. And I can testify the entire collection is pure gold.


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## AEF (Jan 24, 2022)

Where has this been hiding?! It is exactly what I am looking for in a WW library right now. Thanks for this!


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## TomaeusD (Jan 25, 2022)

They do sound real good. How do they compare to Westgate Woodwinds if anybody has both?


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## handshaker (Jan 25, 2022)




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## Futchibon (Jan 25, 2022)

TomaeusD said:


> They do sound real good. How do they compare to Westgate Woodwinds if anybody has both?


I prefer them to Westgate, which also adds up very quickly if you want the whole collection - $700 or so.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 26, 2022)

I don't have one of these instruments yet, but my reaction to the GUI was more along the lines of 'Oh good, it looks like it has everything I need out in the open!'

As for the website, other than a slight difficulty in going between modular options and complete options, it seems fine to me. A lot better than two of the worst out there, Orchestral Tools and Spitfire. Those are horrible to navigate.

But I'm probably not a good test case for these things.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 26, 2022)

The UI of all of Xsample’s instruments is perfectly fine and among the ones I like the best. My earlier remarks in the Cons section of my mini review is meant to reflect that the UI is really deep and offers a LOT of control. Hence the learning curve. I also agree with Bee as far as the website is concerned. All information is there, in a compact enough format, and I kind of like the matter-of-factly presentation of the instruments - it reflects their character.

For those new to Xsample, here’s another tip: check out Hybrid. Other than its name may suggest it is not suited for any hybrid epic music at all, but rather offers patches that are comprised of start / mid / release portions of the regular chamber instruments. In other words: you get to frankenstein, cut up & stitch, your own instruments. Ever wanted a patch starting with a Steinway Model B attack, a bassoon middle part and a cello ensemble ending? This library has you covered. It may be one of my favourite sample highlights ever.





Anyway, I just wanted to amplify what Bee said in her above post. Xsample is a fantastic developer. Hans Josef’s instruments offer nothing but quality, both in terms of the sheer number of articulations that you won’t find elsewhere and in terms of the quality in the recordings. The overall character of the entire collection just sounds very modern to me, like “theatre modern”, “chamber music modern”. Maybe it has some of those Darmstadt School vibes? Maybe I’m making all of this up, I don’t know. But yeah, the UI is just very well suited to take control and sculpt a beautiful performance with the samples on offer.

In another recent thread people are raving over a newly released saxophone sample and asking that developer for a more classical sax SATB variant, “because there is a huge glaring hole in the market”. Nope. If you need classical saxes in your woodwind collection, Xsample released Contemporary Saxophones less than a year ago. I made an entire thread about that one. (I even included audio examples that time, so I guess by current forum standards I did well).






New Xsample release: Contemporary Saxophones (4 saxes suited for extended techniques | EUR 210)


"The Xsample AIL Contemporary Saxophones consists of recordings of a soprano saxophone, an alto saxophone, a tenor saxophone and a baritone saxophone." I haven't really done any real research yet, but this one does seem suited for those of us who are into chamber music and using "extended...




vi-control.net


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## DANIELE (Jan 26, 2022)

I didn't know those instruments, I don't understand if they are articulation based or if they perform based on the user performances.

I saw there are keyswitches but I already read about "elastic" patches. Is there someone here that could clarify this for me?

Thank you.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 26, 2022)

They are all articulation based, so they’re not like Aaron Venture’s stuff. But the patches are rather flexible, and the “longs” can do some pretty convincing shorts  so in a sense they’re pretty flexible.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 26, 2022)

DANIELE said:


> I didn't know those instruments, I don't understand if they are articulation based or if they perform based on the user performances.
> 
> I saw there are keyswitches but I already read about "elastic" patches. Is there someone here that could clarify this for me?
> 
> Thank you.


Watching some videos will make clear how these instruments work.


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## Zanshin (Jan 26, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> In another recent thread people are raving over a newly released saxophone sample and asking that developer for a more classical sax SATB variant, “because there is a huge glaring hole in the market”. Nope. If you need classical saxes in your woodwind collection, Xsample released Contemporary Saxophones less than a year ago. I made an entire thread about that one. (I even included audio examples that time, so I guess by current forum standards I did well).


I still need to pick up these saxes.

One burning question for me, one that has stopped me from pulling the trigger on the other Xsample woodwinds: Because of the "emulated round robin" is the using transpose method for creating unison ensembles a non-starter?


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## doctoremmet (Jan 26, 2022)

You want to create a2 or a3 saxophone ensembles with just one instrument? So let’s say three tenors playing unisono? This library has real round robins, in addition to emulated ones. But you want to do the transpose trick?


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## Zanshin (Jan 26, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> You want to create a2 or a3 saxophone ensembles with just one instrument? So let’s say three tenors playing unisono? This library has real round robins, in addition to emulated ones. But you want to do the transpose trick?


That question was more about the "Complete" Woodwinds, so like flute a2 or a3 for example. Infinite has spoiled me probably haha.

Are you sure about the round robins? Even on the Contemporary Saxophone pages is says "round robin (emulated)".


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## doctoremmet (Jan 26, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> That question was more about the "Complete" Woodwinds, so like flute a2 or a3 for example. Infinite has spoiled me probably haha.
> 
> Are you sure about the round robins? Even on the Contemporary Saxophone pages is says "round robin (emulated)".


I am sure. They are partly emulated but mostly just implemented as real round robins. Maybe @Hans Josef still needs to clarify that a bit better in the documentation online.






Hello, guys. Does anyone buy and use 8dio Studio quartet series?


because they're not exactly cheap, they have emulated round robins and from what I see, no real legato Not cheap? Erm... not extremely expense either Emulated RR, scripted legato: Absolutely. And I don’t care at all, where you’d loathe it. I care about the results I’m getting, that I happen to...




vi-control.net


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## Zanshin (Jan 26, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I am sure. They are partly emulated but mostly just implemented as real round robins. Maybe @Hans Josef still needs to clarify that a bit better in the documentation online.


Woot. So just to underline it though: unison ensembles using the transpose "trick" works with out issue?


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## doctoremmet (Jan 26, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> That question was more about the "Complete" Woodwinds, so like flute a2 or a3 for example. Infinite has spoiled me probably haha.


Ah. I have never tried, because I'd either also use Infinite Woodwinds for this or some other vendor's actually recorded ensemble. I'd have to try the trick before conclusively answering your question.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 26, 2022)

I think I may be buying the Jazz Trombone today. I hadn't planned to buy anything this month, but if I do get it I'll try out the transposition trick to see if it works - a three trombone section is one of the things I'd want to use the library for.

Last night I was playing a solo part with my best saxophone library and I began to realise how fake it sounded compared to some I've seen demoed recently (this is, of course, partly down to my lack of finesse). I'm not wedded to using a solo saxophone, and a solo trombone would add some variety to my jazz options.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 26, 2022)

@Zanshin

Here's some stupid bit of MIDI. Feel free to send me something way better. I did not have a MIDI keyboard hooked up, so I used my notebook's QWERTY  (so no CC automation whatsoever).

First, the Xsample Flute solo (Senza Vib patch). Then the same bit Flutes a3, second Kontakt instance transposed -2 (MIDI corrected +2) and the third instance the other way around. You be the judge.






No external FX - out of the box.

View attachment Xsample Flute transposition trick a3.mp3


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 26, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> @Zanshin
> 
> Here's some stupid bit of MIDI. Feel free to send me something way better. I did not have a MIDI keyboard hooked up, so I used my notebook's QWERTY  (so no CC automation whatsoever).
> 
> ...


That does not sound bad at all! And it is actually a nice little melody to show this off with!


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## Zanshin (Jan 26, 2022)

I'm on iphone now lol, I'll have to listen again when I get home but I don't think I hear phasing though.

I appreciate it!


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## jbuhler (Jan 26, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> The UI of all of Xsample’s instruments is perfectly fine and among the ones I like the best. My earlier remarks in the Cons section of my mini review is meant to reflect that the UI is really deep and offers a LOT of control. Hence the learning curve. I also agree with Bee as far as the website is concerned. All information is there, in a compact enough format, and I kind of like the matter-of-factly presentation of the instruments - it reflects their character.
> 
> For those new to Xsample, here’s another tip: check out Hybrid. Other than its name may suggest it is not suited for any hybrid epic music at all, but rather offers patches that are comprised of start / mid / release portions of the regular chamber instruments. In other words: you get to frankenstein, cut up & stitch, your own instruments. Ever wanted a patch starting with a Steinway Model B attack, a bassoon middle part and a cello ensemble ending? This library has you covered. It may be one of my favourite sample highlights ever.
> 
> ...



The website is like the GUI and vice versa: a bit dated, initially a bit confusing, but perfectly functional. And its layout is such that it doesn’t get in the way of using it. The instruments also work reasonably well with key switches, which is a good thing given that the number of articulations is extraordinarily high, and I don’t know how I’d manage them without something like articulation sets. Besides hard scripting CC11 to the reverb—a decision I still don’t think is a good idea—my other issue with the instruments is the documentation. 

There are a number of manuals, but the issue I have is you need to read the manuals for all the instruments—even those you don’t have—to understand everything that’s on the GUI, since the manual for the instrument generally and understandably only covers those aspects of the GUI that are pertinent to it, and the manual for the scripting only covers items at a general level. So to discover how some bit of the GUI functionality works often involves finding the manual for an instrument that makes use of that functionality. The GUI stays the same whether or not the instrument uses the functionality, which is helpful when you have many of the instruments, because they all work the same, but more than a little overwhelming when you are just starting and have an instrument that uses only a bit of it. And there aren’t many videos showing how this works or walkthroughs doing a thorough demonstration of the instruments. 

@doctoremmet I’m still hoping at some point that you will make your video guide to these instruments, because I think getting past that first stage is hard and will make these instruments more accessible to many. And that GUI though it’s complicated does yield considerable additional functionality to the instruments.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 26, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I’m still hoping at some point that you will make your video guide to these instruments, because I think getting past that first stage is hard and will make these instruments more accessible to many.


Hey Jim. I still intend to but life keeps throwing me curveballs that prevent me from doing so. I also suffer from insecurities regarding the quality of those videos, so there’s that too. But I did start work on a little website where I will publish my “research”  for whatever that’s worth.

That said, a UI and documentation are important. But all of the Xsample instruments do allow the user to instantly play the nki’s and create beautiful music with them - out of the box. Most of the features are really just for finetuning certain little details. I just want to stress this point too, especially for new users. Pick a preset / articulation and play. It usually is that simple (for me)


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 26, 2022)

Well, I'm not getting the Jazz Trombone today after all. I tried the Broadway Lites trombone and it will do for now, even though it requires quite a bit of work to coax a performance from it.

Doc's flute demo leaves pretty pretty comfortable that I could get the transposition trick to work okay, so I think I'll be circling back round to Xsample a little later on.


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## jbuhler (Jan 26, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> But all of the Xsample instruments do allow the user to instantly play the nki’s and create beautiful music with them - out of the box



Yes, definitely this. The two things that were disorienting and not self evident at the start were figuring out how to change articulations and how to control volume separate from using CC7. 

Changing articulations is in fact easy enough once you figure it out, so it wasn’t a big deal. I never did figure out a good solution to the volume so I ended up just automating cc7 when I need it (actually I have a script that converts CC11 in the DAW/controller to CC7 in the Kontakt instance so I can more easily exchange midi with other instruments). I then use a gain plugin or the Kontakt master out to handle the balancing functionality I normally use CC7 for. It’s not ideal but it works well enough. 

Even though the instruments do not have a large number of RRs, the emulation in XCSS is so good they are some of the best shorts I have for solo strings, and there are so many different attacks and shorts! And though the legato is, I believe, scripted as well, I find it sounds generally credible and a bit like modeled instruments in the flexibility it gives to things like glissando and portamento—though it’s a pain to program those. But when you need the effect and at a certain timing, it’s there and you can get it!


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## doctoremmet (Jan 26, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> And though the legato is, I believe, scripted as well,


It is partly recorded and partly reliant on scripting if I have interpreted Hans Josef’s words correctly in the past. (I posted a screenshot of something he said on here a couple of posts above this one). Fwiw, I completely agree with your assessment.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 26, 2022)

@Zanshin 

I forgot to mention that Xsample instruments also offer an ensemble option. To be honest, I’ve never had any use for it, so I haven’t tried that either. I have tried some more instances of the transposition trick though: no phasing whatsoever.







@jbuhler 

When in doubt, I always revert back to this document. I trust that’s the one you use as well? (Attached PDF). [I wish some other developers would even have such a cool document, most just let me download their stuff and good luck with that hehe].


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## jbuhler (Jan 26, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> When in doubt, I always revert back to this document. I trust that’s the one you use as well? (Attached PDF). [I wish some other developers would even have such a cool document, most just let me download their stuff and good luck with that hehe].


I don't actually have that one. It's a good summary. I have a bunch of the individual manuals and the scripting one. 

I was amused by this phrasing: "you have the option to alienate the instruments with different controllers."


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## Zanshin (Jan 26, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> @Zanshin
> 
> I forgot to mention that Xsample instruments also offer an ensemble option. To be honest, I’ve never had any use for it, so I haven’t tried that either. I have tried some more instances of the transposition trick though: no phasing whatsoever.


That's great, thank you again! I'll probably start picking up a few things soon


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## lychee (Jan 27, 2022)

EgM said:


> Sounds good! I'm also a fan of dry samples, but man horrible dated UI for something that costs 249€
> 
> (Seeing Reaper again gave me PTSD as well...)


I know it's stupid too, but the aesthetics of a plugin can influence my desire to buy or not.
This is the case of the Xsample plugins, which have the sound of a professional and well-built product, but an "amateur" look (without wanting to disrespect its developer).

Being also a hobby graphic designer of a good level (without wanting to be pretentious), I do not think I was wrong in saying that everything was done by you @Hans Josef, to whom I would strongly advise to call on a pro in this field.


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## JimDiGritz (Mar 30, 2022)

I love the xsample sounds, and if funds allow I might buy into it since I really like supporting smaller devs.

However I will weigh into the aesthetics debate with my own purchase thought process.

Much like browsing books on Amazon, the cover/design tells me a *lot*

1. *Design is high quality.* This individual has a good aesthetic and cares enough about their product to spend time/money on design. The product quality overall will likely reflect this. But no guarantees.

2. *Design is poor.* Either the individual has no eye for detail ("ah that'll do!") not a good sign in a small artistic dev... OR they just aren't selling enough units to fund a professional designer. Lack of sales could be a symptom of poor first impressions but also could be down to a poor product. Unless it's brand new on the market it's likely therefore that the product is poor. HOWEVER there are always diamonds in the rough.

Just my tuppence worth


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## doctoremmet (Mar 30, 2022)

If I had to go by design I would have to erase ALL Kontakt libraries. Tiny effing UI annoys the hell out of me on a daily basis. I wish I could exclusively use Soundpaint or something modern without ANY design, pictures, etc. Just a good workflow and good sounds. If I want design I go to a museum.

Edit: or Synchron Player!


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## JimDiGritz (Mar 30, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> If I had to go by design I would have to erase ALL *Kontakt *libraries. Tiny effing UI annoys the hell out of me on a daily basis. I wish I could exclusively use Soundpaint or something modern without ANY design, pictures, etc. Just a good workflow and good sounds. If I want design I go to a museum.


Ah, yes.. the "We're the industry standard so don't need to care about design" approach.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 30, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Ah, yes.. the "We're the industry standard so don't need to care about design" approach.


I’m sure someone will come barging in here with some story containing the words “technical debt” soon 😂


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## Double Helix (Mar 30, 2022)

[sound of a telephone ringing]
"Hello! Don't hang up! Our records indicate that you or members of your family are in 'technical debt.' Press 5 now to speak to one of our certified representatives."


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## El Buhdai (Mar 30, 2022)

Having a pretty UI to look at while you make your music is certainly nice, but at the end of the day nobody's gonna see it when they actually listen to your music. What they would experience, however, are some admittedly high quality sounding instruments. To me, that's what matters most because that's what matters for the quality of the listening experience.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

El Buhdai said:


> because that's what matters for the quality of the listening experience


Truth


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

So @robgb. Did you eventually decide to get the Xsample woodwinds?


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## Futchibon (Mar 31, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Much like browsing books on Amazon, the cover/design tells me a *lot*
> 
> 1. *Design is high quality.* This individual has a good aesthetic and cares enough about their product to spend time/money on design. The product quality overall will likely reflect this. But no guarantees.
> 
> ...


Don't think the analogy is particularly apt, books are visual, music is auditory. Demos are important but walkthroughs are more so, as they show more how the library plays. Performance Samples has one of the plainest GUIs around, they put all their effort into capturing performers giving their all and programming.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 31, 2022)

I really like the Xsample interface. Everything is laid out neatly and is easy to find, there's an efficient use of space and a good balance in the colour scheme so that it can be read easily but doesn't have extreme contrasts that can be tiring on the eyes.

People sensitive to visual aesthetics really can find unpleasant interfaces a problem. Unless they have a template where they don't have to look at it, a discouraging appearance can make using a library tough.

I think there are some common issues that bother such people, so that it isn't quite an issue of personal taste.

Fortunately, despite loving visual art, I don't seem to have this problem. I think I lack the heightened sensitivity and emotional reaction to detail. But, then, my eyesight isn't great...


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## holywilly (Mar 31, 2022)

How do Xsample woodwinds comparing with VSL VI woodwinds? In terms of playability and expressiveness. 

I’m thinking of getting bassoon and oboe, and eventually buy the whole bundle.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

holywilly said:


> How do Xsample woodwinds comparing with VSL VI woodwinds? In terms of playability and expressiveness.
> 
> I’m thinking of getting bassoon and oboe, and eventually buy the whole bundle.


I have all Xsample woodwinds, the VSL Synchronized Woodwinds, Synchronized SE Volume 4 and Synchron Woodwinds.

To be honest each have their own strengths. The Synchronized WW may be the most nimble. All VSL ones have the repeats (in various BPMs) that Xsample instruments lack. 

But the Xsample instruments hold up quite well and have a tone I prefer to be honest. I don’t know what Herr Winkler does to his players or what mics he’s used, but overall his instruments just ooze character and warmth. It is also possible that he and I just happen to share a certain taste in sonics. Of course in terms of articulations they come with a bunch of extended techniques that are usually only available in more niche collections. Also the sheer availability of certain woodwind instruments in his collection makes it a very compelling package. A bass flute, clarinet Eb, oboe d’amore, alto sax and a basset horn are not typically included in competing offerings.

The Synchron WW come with ensemble patches that neither Xsample or the Synchronized have and with mic positions. Overall they sound good in context but I do not prefer them as soloists for more exposed passages.

Disclaimer: I am a mere hobbyist and of course this village’s Xsample fanboy. So take everything with a grain of salt. I’m not exactly known for my great musical contributions to the media music universe. In my favour: I did buy all VSL and Xsample instruments with my own hard earned money.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

A collection that contains all of these instruments for EUR 249 offers an amazing amount of value in my opinion. And what’s even better: every single one of them sounds great out of the box. Pretty hassle free.


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## wcreed51 (Mar 31, 2022)

The Synchronized WW have ensembles available in the add on packs, as well as bass flute, Eb clarinet and basest horn, among others


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

There are also drawbacks in terms of usability. They have been documented in this thread but it’s only fair to repeat them:

- VSL Synchron Player beats Kontakt when it comes to usability and, well… fun. It’s just the better player, we can all agree on that. Also in terms of controls the VSL woodwinds have more built-in options to “command” than the Xsample ones. The Timbre Control for instance.

- the Xsample UI has been discussed before and yes it has a learning curve, and yes it can be confusing (but no, I typically do not pay any attention, instead I load up an NKI and start playing)

- the use of midi CC #11 (hardcoded) for use in the built-in Roomwalker reverb function is unfortunate for those who want to drop existing orchestral midi with lots of CC1 and CC11 data only to find the instrument goes completely bonkers. Workarounds involving CC7 exist, but may be contrary to your particular workflow.

- dry library (a pro in my world), so no mic positions to sculpt a room sound (when compared to Synchron WW that is).


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

wcreed51 said:


> The Synchronized WW have ensembles available in the add on packs, as well as bass flute, Eb clarinet and basest horn, among others


Yes, the extra instruments are however part of add-on collections that need to be purchased separately. Which was my point. I am aware of the existence of said instruments - as an owner of their specced-down version in SE Volume 4. So technically speaking they are not part of let’s call it the “plain vanilla” Synchronized Woodwinds. So in terms of bang for the buck Xsample delivers more instruments. But does not offer any ensemble patches.

I do get your point though.


----------



## holywilly (Mar 31, 2022)

Are trills the playable trills? Trills are not listed in the articulations list.

And are xsample woodwinds great for exposed solos?


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Are trills the playable trills? Trills are not listed in the articulations list.


Which trills are you talking about? Did I mention them?


----------



## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

The VSL WW have recorded trills and fast repetitions. The Xsample ones do not.

Here's an Xsample WW demo. You be the judge if you deem them worthy of exposed soli. I know I do.


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## robgb (Mar 31, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> So @robgb. Did you eventually decide to get the Xsample woodwinds?


They're at the top of the list. In the meantime I went back and looked some of the older the woodwinds I already had, resampled and rescripted some of them to better fit my tastes, and discovered that they really cover all my needs for woodwinds. At some point when I have $250 to spare I'll take another look at Xsample, because they do sound amazing.


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## Zanshin (Mar 31, 2022)

The Xsample WW are on my list too (Damn you @doctoremmet!!! I want the brass and maybe saxes too haha). I've been trying to wait for a sale because I own so many options already, including Syz WW which I love. Now that I know they play well with MIR it's only a matter of time before I snatch them up.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

I won’t be doing the instruments any favours, as this is just still ALL played with just the staccato patch of each SATB sax (I am busy putting in all the various articulations, which is not very fun to do), but I may do your wallet a favour inadvertently hehe. But here’s XCS. I used MIR Pro to sort of place them in the room. Just a work in progress that can / will sound a whole lot less E-mu Proteus-y once I’m finished (I hope!).

[deleted] ok fuck it, I’ll undelete it - what’s with the fucking pathos anyway Emmet? grow a pair will you.

View attachment Xsample Project - Contemporary Saxophones - The Providence of Zorn -[AudioTrimmer.com].mp3


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## Zanshin (Mar 31, 2022)

Sounds good  Both your piece and the instruments.


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## Duncan Krummel (Mar 31, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> In another recent thread people are raving over a newly released saxophone sample and asking that developer for a more classical sax SATB variant, “because there is a huge glaring hole in the market”. Nope. If you need classical saxes in your woodwind collection, Xsample released Contemporary Saxophones less than a year ago.


It’s old, so apologies for dredging this up, but I do feel a need to defend my position here, since what I said is being quoted. If Xsample’s or VSL’s saxes work for you, great. They do NOT sound good enough to use to me. I played alto sax for years, and wrote for some phenomenal professionals. These libraries approximate poorly, in my opinion. They sound like keyboard patches. Again, if you find them useful, great! To each their own, but I’ll continue to point out the glaring hole for classically oriented saxophones in the market because I still find there to be one.


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## Vlzmusic (Mar 31, 2022)

Duncan Krummel said:


> It’s old, so apologies for dredging this up, but I do feel a need to defend my position here, since what I said is being quoted. If Xsample’s or VSL’s saxes work for you, great. They do NOT sound good enough to use to me. I played alto sax for years, and wrote for some phenomenal professionals. These libraries approximate poorly, in my opinion. They sound like keyboard patches. Again, if you find them useful, great! To each their own, but I’ll continue to point out the glaring hole for classically oriented saxophones in the market because I still find there to be one.


Hi Duncan, if style is put aside for a moment, have you heard Austin Saxes? If so, do they come closer to the quality you are looking for?


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## Duncan Krummel (Mar 31, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> Hi Duncan, if style is put aside for a moment, have you heard Austin Saxes? If so, do they come closer to the quality you are looking for?


That’s actually the original thread I posted the request in. I do have them, but they are not classically oriented. The ‘Emotional’ patches get a little closer by virtue of their softer dynamic, but it still isn’t there.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

Duncan Krummel said:


> It’s old, so apologies for dredging this up, but I do feel a need to defend my position here, since what I said is being quoted. If Xsample’s or VSL’s saxes work for you, great. They do NOT sound good enough to use to me. I played alto sax for years, and wrote for some phenomenal professionals. These libraries approximate poorly, in my opinion. They sound like keyboard patches. Again, if you find them useful, great! To each their own, but I’ll continue to point out the glaring hole for classically oriented saxophones in the market because I still find there to be one.


No problem Duncan and no offense either. I always make it perfectly clear that I am a hobbyist without any worthwhile experience. You also make clear you have a sound resumé. That said, I am of the opinion that acoustic instruments can never be truly emulated with sampled variants. So in that context I am very happy with the Xsample instrument, since it at least aims for a more classical sound - which to a certain extent satisfies my needs. Of course, like you, I am always on the lookout for improvements, but doubt very much that we’ll ever get there.

So my quoted point above has to be seen in that light. There ARE contemporary saxophone samples currently available, that TO AN EXTENT have improved our possibilities. But what do I know, right?


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Sounds good  Both your piece and the instruments.


Apparently it sucks. So I will delete it. It is not my own piece though. I played it in from sheet music.


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## Zanshin (Mar 31, 2022)

Duncan Krummel said:


> That’s actually the original thread I posted the request in. I do have them, but they are not classically oriented. The ‘Emotional’ patches get a little closer by virtue of their softer dynamic, but it still isn’t there.


My understanding is the Austin Saxes are a single dynamic layer. I don't think that would make for a great classical instrument either.

Given your experience and background, I assume you are a tougher customer than most.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 31, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Apparently it sucks. So I will delete it. It is not my own piece though. I played it in from sheet music.


Not at all, it sounds marvellous. It gets a little keyboard-like in parts, but that is because it isn't finished. There is bags of potential here, so far as any samples are capable of achieving.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 31, 2022)

If the gap in the market is classical saxophones that meet a certainly quality threshold, it may be in part a limitation of the technology thus far. That is, developers may shy away from the project if the results aren't going to be match the standards set for other instruments. It may be that an approach like Straight Ahead's Smart Delay, with literally thousands of samples per note, could get there.

I'm a little unclear on the aims and needs involved; as by the time a certain quality is reached, the best way forward for improvements is live musicians playing the actual instruments. Not that I'd want to stop anyone from trying to develop sample instruments that are ever better than the ones we have.

I'm more inclined to go in the other direction. That is, if you want it to sound like the real thing, you only need a basic level of quality to help compose, communicate your plans to others, and produce the notation. If you want to do everything with samples, embrace their nature as samples. But, of course, I don't expect everyone else to want what I do; and there are budgets to be considered!


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## Duncan Krummel (Mar 31, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> No problem Duncan and no offense either. I always make it perfectly clear that I am a hobbyist without any worthwhile experience.


The only part I think we’d disagree upon is that the value of input isn’t dependent on being a professional, in my mind. This isn’t to patronize or placate either, but plenty of professionals are dumb jerks. It’s everywhere. I think you’ve proven yourself - here, if nowhere else - to be a reliable and sensible contributor with both the right intentions and a quick mind. So honestly, I consider your input quite valuable.


Zanshin said:


> My understanding is the Austin Saxes are a single dynamic layer. I don't think that would make for a great classical instrument either.
> 
> Given your experience and background, I assume you are a tougher customer than most.


it’s a tough call between working with what’s available and fighting against what’s possible. I’ve also felt that were approaching a level of realism in samples where the faults are more uncanny valley than anything. SA’s clarinet, tenor, and trumpet fit this exactly. They are clearly the best option for what they do and get the closest to real there, and - because they are so much closer - their faults become even harder for me to swallow because it just feels unnaturally ‘almost,’ if that makes sense.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 31, 2022)

Duncan Krummel said:


> The only part I think we’d disagree upon is that the value of input isn’t dependent on being a professional, in my mind. This isn’t to patronize or placate either, but plenty of professionals are dumb jerks. It’s everywhere. I think you’ve proven yourself - here, if nowhere else - to be a reliable and sensible contributor with both the right intentions and a quick mind. So honestly, I consider your input quite valuable.
> 
> it’s a tough call between working with what’s available and fighting against what’s possible. I’ve also felt that were approaching a level of realism in samples where the faults are more uncanny valley than anything. SA’s clarinet, tenor, and trumpet fit this exactly. They are clearly the best option for what they do and get the closest to real there, and - because they are so much closer - their faults become even harder for me to swallow because it just feels unnaturally ‘almost,’ if that makes sense.


I agree with all of the above Duncan but I just happen to feel a bit “completely and utterly useless” at the moment. But that’s 100% of my own doing. Thanks for the compliment, really appreciate you saying that.


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## Duncan Krummel (Mar 31, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I agree with all of the above Duncan but I just happen to feel a bit “completely and utterly useless” at the moment. But that’s 100% of my own doing. Thanks for the compliment, really appreciate you saying that.


That’s called being an artist. It sucks


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## Ricgus3 (Apr 15, 2022)

Hi! I wish to bump this abit. Is the Xsample "plonkable" or is it programming heavy? Can I play it with the legato patch or is it Keyswitched from articulation to articulation? Is it like Spitfire Studio Woodwinds or more like Infinite Woodwinds? Alot of questions but I hope it has the same anwer 

All the BEst!


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## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Hi! I wish to bump this abit. Is the Xsample "plonkable" or is it programming heavy? Can I play it with the legato patch or is it Keyswitched from articulation to articulation? Is it like Spitfire Studio Woodwinds or more like Infinite Woodwinds? Alot of questions but I hope it has the same anwer
> 
> All the BEst!


Somewhere in between. It does rely on keyswitches so it is not like Infinite Woodwinds. There are legatos and shorts, so to speak, and no performance patches. But the longs can pull off short notes for when you’d like to “plonk” a bit. 

But this is in essence a library that shines when it gets a bit of KS and programming love.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2022)

@Ricgus3 I’ll try and upload some examples this Easter weekend. Sloppy demos of course - which appears to become a new favourite pastime. I now record stuff without any form of quality control, no click, no quantize and no clue haha. But at least I’ve started to share actual audio in 2022. Who’d have thought? 😂


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 15, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> @Ricgus3 I’ll try and upload some examples this Easter weekend. Sloppy demos of course - which appears to become a new favourite pastime. I now record stuff without any form of quality control, no click, no quantize and no clue haha. But at least I’ve started to share actual audio in 2022. Who’d have thought? 😂



It takes ages to program in all of the subtle tempo variations that make a track work. Better to wing it.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2022)

I’ll start winging and report back ma’am!


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## Ricgus3 (Apr 15, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> @Ricgus3 I’ll try and upload some examples this Easter weekend. Sloppy demos of course - which appears to become a new favourite pastime. I now record stuff without any form of quality control, no click, no quantize and no clue haha. But at least I’ve started to share actual audio in 2022. Who’d have thought? 😂


That would be amazing! I would love if you recorded some stuff from the separate “patches” or articulation. Some shorts and some legato . 

I still only have Nucleus woodwinds but it has gotten me a lot of mileage. Been looking at expanding but have a hard time finding anything I like, ssts seems good at the price point. But Xsample sounds really nice


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## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> That would be amazing! I would love if you recorded some stuff from the separate “patches” or articulation. Some shorts and some legato .
> 
> I still only have Nucleus woodwinds but it has gotten me a lot of mileage. Been looking at expanding but have a hard time finding anything I like, ssts seems good at the price point. But Xsample sounds really nice


Will do.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Hi! I wish to bump this abit. Is the Xsample "plonkable" or is it programming heavy? Can I play it with the legato patch or is it Keyswitched from articulation to articulation? Is it like Spitfire Studio Woodwinds or more like Infinite Woodwinds? Alot of questions but I hope it has the same anwer
> 
> All the BEst!


Hey @Ricgus3 - here is my first example. I think I'll add a couple more over the course of this weekend. I hope this is helpful.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2022)

Here's a second example. Slightly weirder musically I am afraid, personal preference I guess. Keep in mind: this is all just me faffing about. No editing. No click tracks. No FX. Just the Kontakt patches as you get them on your harddrive.

Anyway, this time I take a look at the Clarinet Bb.


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## Zanshin (Apr 15, 2022)

Thank you for getting these out before the sale! 

But seriously, thank you. They do sound great


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## Ricgus3 (Apr 15, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Thank you for getting these out before the sale!
> 
> But seriously, thank you. They do sound great


Is there a sale happening?:O


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## Zanshin (Apr 15, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Is there a sale happening?:O


I was trying to will it to appear, but perhaps I jinxed it.

Answer is: Unknown.


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## Ricgus3 (Apr 15, 2022)

@doctoremmet wow they sound really good! The legato works well with both fast and slower movements! Super grateful you took the time and uploaded these :D


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## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2022)

I’ll do some more over the coming days; I had fun. @Hans Josef you are a genius. People in here need a sale. Any chance of that happening?


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## VVEremita (Apr 15, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> @Ricgus3 I’ll try and upload some examples this Easter weekend. Sloppy demos of course - which appears to become a new favourite pastime. I now record stuff without any form of quality control, no click, no quantize and no clue haha. But at least I’ve started to share actual audio in 2022. Who’d have thought? 😂


Thank you for the videos! I already have the library, but I will never stop enjoying your endorsement of it 

(And I do remember first announcements of videos a while back.... especially about the strings  )


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## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2022)

VVEremita said:


> Thank you for the videos! I already have the library, but I will never stop enjoying your endorsement of it
> 
> (And I do remember first announcements of videos a while back.... especially about the strings  )


I have pretty high standards, so my own attempts kept failing and did not meet “the bar”. I’ve decided to no longer give a rat’s ass and just make something, videotape it and put it on here. Next.  

Who knows. When I feel like it, I’ll post some more Xsample videos.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 15, 2022)

Audio for my next one. Xsample Oboe d'Amore. I'll make another video tomorrow and post it.

Just recorded and rendered this in one flow - have not even listened to it properly. Maybe it's a mess. But now: time for bed.

View attachment Xsample Woodwinds - Examples - Oboe d'Amore - No keyswitching - Plonkability.mp3


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 15, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Audio for my next one. Xsample Oboe d'Amore. I'll make another video tomorrow and post it.
> 
> Just recorded and rendered this in one flow - have not even listened to it properly. Maybe it's a mess. But now: time for bed.
> 
> View attachment Xsample Woodwinds - Examples - Oboe d'Amore - No keyswitching - Plonkability.mp3


Dude, like, stop being better than me at everything!


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## berndfri (Apr 15, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Audio for my next one. Xsample Oboe d'Amore. I'll make another video tomorrow and post it.
> 
> Just recorded and rendered this in one flow - have not even listened to it properly. Maybe it's a mess. But now: time for bed.
> 
> View attachment Xsample Woodwinds - Examples - Oboe d'Amore - No keyswitching - Plonkability.mp3


I believe this sound example of the oboe fits in that "Achingly Beautiful Sample Libraries" thread.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 16, 2022)

Another quick audio example for you @Ricgus3. Bass clarinet - two patches. Non vib and vibrato legato. Just notes over chords this one - I didn't feel the inspiration to come up with something like an actual melody. Like the other one minute demos all instruments are Xsample.

View attachment Xsample Woodwinds - Examples - Bassclarinet - No keyswitching - Plonkability.mp3


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## confusedsheep (Apr 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Here's a second example. *Slightly weirder musically I am afraid, personal preference I guess.* Keep in mind: this is all just me faffing about. No editing. No click tracks. No FX. Just the Kontakt patches as you get them on your harddrive.
> 
> Anyway, this time I take a look at the Clarinet Bb.



slightly weirder musically is always good! 

thanks for the examples!


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Another quick audio example for you @Ricgus3. Bass clarinet - two patches. Non vib and vibrato legato. Just notes over chords this one - I didn't feel the inspiration to come up with something like an actual melody. Like the other one minute demos all instruments are Xsample.
> 
> View attachment Xsample Woodwinds - Examples - Bassclarinet - No keyswitching - Plonkability.mp3


Conventional melodies aren't my cup of tea, really; I loved this! I'd buy that album!


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## VVEremita (Apr 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I have pretty high standards, so my own attempts kept failing and did not meet “the bar”. I’ve decided to no longer give a rat’s ass and just make something, videotape it and put it on here. Next.
> 
> Who knows. When I feel like it, I’ll post some more Xsample videos.


In my book that's a good idea. 


doctoremmet said:


> Another quick audio example for you @Ricgus3. Bass clarinet - two patches. Non vib and vibrato legato. Just notes over chords this one - I didn't feel the inspiration to come up with something like an actual melody. Like the other one minute demos all instruments are Xsample.
> 
> View attachment Xsample Woodwinds - Examples - Bassclarinet - No keyswitching - Plonkability.mp3


That is so good, I am really glad you post these pieces!


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## Hans Josef (Apr 20, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Is there a sale happening?:O


Normally there is a sale in april, but this year it will be a woodwinds special from 3. to 6. may.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 20, 2022)

Hans Josef said:


> Normally there is a sale in april, but this year it will be a woodwinds special from 3. to 6. may.


Very cool Hans Josef. I expect your sales to go through the roof ❤️


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## Zanshin (Apr 20, 2022)

Hans Josef said:


> Normally there is a sale in april, but this year it will be a woodwinds special from 3. to 6. may.


I feel like winds in general would be more "inclusive" but exciting anyway!


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 20, 2022)

A most welcome development.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 20, 2022)

Here's a convenient playlist with some "no keyswitching" Xsample Woodwinds demos. I'll add a couple more before the sale starts.


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 20, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Here's a convenient playlist with some "no keyswitching" Xsample Woodwinds demos. I'll add a couple more before the sale starts.




That link might need fixing.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 20, 2022)

Works for me?


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## Zanshin (Apr 20, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Works for me?


Me too


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 20, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Works for me?


It works for me now. Sorry, it didn't work for me when I first saw it. It's all okay now.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 25, 2022)

Hey all. In anticipation of the coming Xsample Woodwind sale, I have written another quick & dirty demo track. This time I have used a wind ensemble with bassoon, alto flute, contrabassoon and a bit of Eb clarinet. You can also hear Xsample Contemporary Solo Strings in action. It is in dire need of some surgical EQ'ing in places, but that will have to wait 

Again, I hope this is useful for those of you interested in this library. I'll add the track to the Soundcloud playlist as well.


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## wunderflo (Apr 25, 2022)

wow, I think this is the first time I hear your music @doctoremmet, and unfortunately it's as good as I was afraid it'd be after all your downplaying.


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

Come on sale, get saleing!

Today the woodwinds sale is due to begin. So I'm just at that point where I am looking forward to the possibilities before I see the sale prices and realise I still can't justify buying anything!


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## mgaewsj (May 3, 2022)

and here it is


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

Strange, the sale price does not display when I visit the website.






xsample_complete_part_1







www.xsample.de





EDIT TO ADD: The sale price is now displaying for me.


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## ism (May 3, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Hey all. In anticipation of the coming Xsample Woodwind sale, I have written another quick & dirty demo track. This time I have used a wind ensemble with bassoon, alto flute, contrabassoon and a bit of Eb clarinet. You can also hear Xsample Contemporary Solo Strings in action. It is in dire need of some surgical EQ'ing in places, but that will have to wait
> 
> Again, I hope this is useful for those of you interested in this library. I'll add the track to the Soundcloud playlist as well.



Very cool.


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## cleverr1 (May 3, 2022)

How does the xsample website work? I bought the library, got taken to PayPal which ended in a message saying return to the vendor site, but no link. I got the PayPal receipt e-mail but nothing about my purchase on https://www.xsample.de/ and no e-mail from it.


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

cleverr1 said:


> How does the xsample website work? I bought the library, got taken to PayPal which ended in a message saying return to the vendor site, but no link. I got the PayPal receipt e-mail but nothing about my purchase on https://www.xsample.de/ and no e-mail from it.


If I remember correctly, you shouldn't have to wait to long then Hans Josef will email you a link for the downloads.

I lot of commercial websites work that way. The payment is automated, but the delivery is not only handled separately, but is also handled in person. Spitfire, for example, can take a while sometimes.

So, don't worry yet!


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## cleverr1 (May 3, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> If I remember correctly, you shouldn't have to wait to long then Hans Josef will email you a link for the downloads.
> 
> I lot of commercial websites work that way. The payment is automated, but the delivery is not only handled separately, but is also handled in person. Spitfire, for example, can take a while sometimes.
> 
> So, don't worry yet!


Thanks for that! 


I just got an e-mail with the details. The library was still in my basket when I returned to the site so I thought I'd broken something.


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

cleverr1 said:


> Thanks for that!
> 
> 
> I just got an e-mail with the details. The library was still in my basket when I returned to the site so I thought I'd broken something.


I would have thought something was wrong, too. How odd!


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## cleverr1 (May 3, 2022)

I get a virus warning when attempting to download the documentation:




I hope this is a false positive and that the site hasn't been compromised.


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

cleverr1 said:


> I get a virus warning when attempting to download the documentation:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That sort of thing is pretty commonplace. After all, something is being downloaded onto your computer from a manufacturer of a niche product. I can't guarantee anything, though, and the fact that it specifically mentioned Trojanware could mean something. My computer was fine a few months ago after downloading an Xsample library and associated material, but I don't remember any warnings.


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## Zanshin (May 3, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That sort of thing is pretty commonplace. After all, something is being downloaded onto your computer from a manufacturer of a niche product. I can't guarantee anything, though, and the fact that it specifically mentioned Trojanware could mean something. My computer was fine a few months ago after downloading an Xsample library and associated material, but I don't remember any warnings.


Perhaps the Trojan AI on your computer just typed this out? How can we know for sure?!


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Perhaps the Trojan AI on your computer just typed this out? How can we know for sure?!


You remind me a lot of Loki, you mischievous wee scamp!


----------



## Zanshin (May 3, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> You remind me a lot of Loki, you mischievous wee scamp!


My BFF goes by Loki anyway:


----------



## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> My BFF goes by Loki anyway:


And what a handsome charmer he is!


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## cleverr1 (May 3, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That sort of thing is pretty commonplace. After all, something is being downloaded onto your computer from a manufacturer of a niche product. I can't guarantee anything, though, and the fact that it specifically mentioned Trojanware could mean something. My computer was fine a few months ago after downloading an Xsample library and associated material, but I don't remember any warnings.


I just noticed the .pdf manual is available on the main website so I got it from there.

I think I know what the "virus" issue is with the .rar - I saved it to somewhere else which worked, but when I opened it with WinRar there's a load of HTML script showing in the root of the archive. Scanning the actual archive came up clean.


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## Bee_Abney (May 3, 2022)

cleverr1 said:


> I just noticed the .pdf manual is available on the main website so I got it from there.
> 
> I think I know what the "virus" issue is with the .rar - I saved it to somewhere else which worked, but when I opened it with WinRar there's a load of HTML script showing in the root of the archive. Scanning the actual archive came up clean.


Great news. Now, you get to the good part!


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## cleverr1 (May 3, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Great news. Now, you get to the good part!


YEAHHH!!!!


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## szurcio (May 3, 2022)

As far as single instruments (not collections, like Contemporary Solo Strings or Saxophones), are the Tuba, French Horn, Clarinet in A and Pan Flute the ones that are not included in Complete? Or are there any others? It's a little hard to figure out from the Modular list. He should maybe add a "More Complete" version.


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## LatinXCombo (May 3, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Perhaps the Trojan AI on your computer just typed this out? How can we know for sure?!


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## EanS (May 6, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Hey all. In anticipation of the coming Xsample Woodwind sale, I have written another quick & dirty demo track. This time I have used a wind ensemble with bassoon, alto flute, contrabassoon and a bit of Eb clarinet. You can also hear Xsample Contemporary Solo Strings in action. It is in dire need of some surgical EQ'ing in places, but that will have to wait
> 
> Again, I hope this is useful for those of you interested in this library. I'll add the track to the Soundcloud playlist as well.



I find it pretty "offensive" that you only have 11 subscribers on Youtube. Now you have 12 subscribers.


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## doctoremmet (May 6, 2022)

EanS said:


> I find it pretty "offensive" that you only have 11 subscribers on Youtube. Now you have 12 subscribers.


Forever grateful. I may do a rally over the weekend to reach 15


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## Bee_Abney (May 6, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Forever grateful. I may do a rally over the weekend to reach 15


I've got a second YouTube account, I could subscribe again...


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## doctoremmet (May 6, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I've got a second YouTube account, I could subscribe again...


What? Your monastery doesn’t run a Korean clickfarm?


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## EanS (May 6, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Forever grateful. I may do a rally over the weekend to reach 15


Do a giveaway and you get >500


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## doctoremmet (May 6, 2022)

EanS said:


> Do a giveaway and you get >500


Hahaha. But developers refuse to give me their stuff to give away, so there’s little hope. Maybe I can make a MIDI pack of my recent woodwind butchery and give that away?


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## Bee_Abney (May 6, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Hahaha. But developers refuse to give me their stuff to give away, so there’s little hope. Maybe I can make a MIDI pack of my recent woodwind butchery and give that away?


I'd settle for some chords. I've nearly got all the minor chords now!


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## EanS (May 6, 2022)

@doctoremmet the very last. I'm a sucker for woodwinds, but budget is limited. If you were to shortlist 3 favorite winds from that bundle, would you please share which are your faves yes or yes, considering the A Clarinet as well. Thanks in advance.


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## doctoremmet (May 6, 2022)

EanS said:


> @doctoremmet the very last. I'm a sucker for woodwinds, but budget is limited. If you were to shortlist 3 favorite winds from that bundle, would you please share which are your faves yes or yes, considering the A Clarinet as well. Thanks in advance.


For sure. Here they are:

1. Clarinet A
2. Bassoon
3. Oboe d’amore
4. All flutes

Edit: just to make this clear, the Clarinet A isn’t actually part of any bundle and like the panflute can only be bought as a separate instrument. It is however still on sale at the time of me writing this. All other (14) Xsample woodwind instruments are bundled as Part 1 of what is called Complete.


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## EanS (May 6, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Hahaha. But developers refuse to give me their stuff to give away, so there’s little hope. Maybe I can make a MIDI pack of my recent woodwind butchery and give that away?


You can chose a lucky winner that can ask you freely to make a comparison between any libraries you have available. Lucky winner will save money and time by checking how library sounds and also it will become an added value to the community.


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## EanS (May 6, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> For sure. Here they are:
> 
> 1. Clarinet A
> 2. Bassoon
> ...


I KNEW IT!!! That A Clarinet was winking at me, and I have La Clarinette en Rose so made me second guess, also wondered which Oboe. Thanks, on point! 

Dat flute sounds great in the end with the spitting.


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## dyross (May 8, 2022)

Has anyone figured out how to use the elastic patches well enough to explain it to me?

I've come to understand, at least, the naming conventions, so I can figure out which presets work for me, but how do you edit them?

Here's the first preset, "Vibrato MW":






This is the main preset I use - CC1 controls dynamics and it's defaulted to vibrato'd sustains with legato enabled.

I'm guessing this is implemented by "Vibrato piano", "Vibrato mf", and "Vibrato forte" (sounds 1-3) being the three dynamic layers that you can cross-fade between (see just under Edit Mode box). But where is the CC1 fade set up? The value for "X-fade CC1 off" makes it seem like it is off...

How does one control or affect the "Key Noises" and "breathing" in sounds 4 and 6?


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## dyross (May 8, 2022)

@Hans Josef is there a PDF or walkthrough video on the elastic patches? Can you provide a quick explainer?

Loving the libraries so far, but struggling to get the most out of the elastic patches.

Thanks!


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## gamma-ut (May 8, 2022)

You want the AIL Extended Scripting manual: https://www.xsample.de/documents/Xsample_AIL_Extended_Scripting.pdf


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## dyross (May 9, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> You want the AIL Extended Scripting manual: https://www.xsample.de/documents/Xsample_AIL_Extended_Scripting.pdf


Thanks so much! Not sure how I missed that one.


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## dyross (May 9, 2022)

@gamma-ut thanks so much for the link - this is super helpful.

A question, if you don't mind:

I'm trying to implement something like the Spitfire CC1/CC11 combination for dynamic/volume control on longs (using velocity for shorts is working great, but velocity doesn't make sense for this use-case for longs). After reading the doc, I've figured out how to use CC1 to crossfade the dynamic layers. It seems the common technique is to reduce the gain on the quiet layer (say -12 DB), keep it moderate on the middle layer (say -6 DB), and increase it on the top layer (say 0 DB). Now blending between them changes the volume between -12 DB and 0 DB.

However, this means that the lowest volume you can play, even on the lowest dynamic, is -12 DB. To get lower, I'm trying to implement something like the classic CC11 expression strategy a la Spitefire. It seems like the only way to implement an additional volume change is via CC7, which changes the plugin's overall volume (at the Kontakt level). This is not ideal because it affects the reverb level as well, which is not what we're after.

Am I missing something?


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## EanS (May 9, 2022)

dyross said:


> @gamma-ut thanks so much for the link - this is super helpful.
> 
> A question, if you don't mind:
> 
> ...


Post #60 in this thread addresses this drawback.






Is This the Woodwind Library I've been Looking for?


@Zanshin I forgot to mention that Xsample instruments also offer an ensemble option. To be honest, I’ve never had any use for it, so I haven’t tried that either. I have tried some more instances of the transposition trick though: no phasing whatsoever. @jbuhler When in doubt, I always...




vi-control.net


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## dyross (May 9, 2022)

Hi @EanS - thanks for the repsonse.

My issue isn't that CC7 doesn't work with my workflow. It's relatively easy for me to use CC7 instead of CC11. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be an inside-the-plugin volume control , so to speak, that controls the instrument pre-reverb. Rather, the Kontakt-level CC7 simply controls the gain coming out of the whole plugin.

Does that make sense?

Now, perhaps the answer is still "yes, this is a known limitation." Just wondering if there's anything else I'm missing.


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## PrimeEagle (May 9, 2022)

I hear a lot about how the XSample woodwinds are wonderful, but how about the brass, strings, and percussion? Are those at the same level as the woodwinds, too?


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## doctoremmet (May 9, 2022)

dyross said:


> Hi @EanS - thanks for the repsonse.
> 
> My issue isn't that CC7 doesn't work with my workflow. It's relatively easy for me to use CC7 instead of CC11. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be an inside-the-plugin volume control , so to speak, that controls the instrument pre-reverb. Rather, the Kontakt-level CC7 simply controls the gain coming out of the whole plugin.
> 
> ...


Why not disable the internal convolution entirely and use an external reverb? For me personally there is no need to automate any releases near the end of a phrase with volume control but if you’d want to do that, CC7 is your only way forward. These instruments are recorded dry so it is relatively easy to just place them in a room of your own. Or isn’t Dorico capable of doing such a thing?


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## doctoremmet (May 9, 2022)

PrimeEagle said:


> how about the brass, strings, and percussion?


I’ve linked to a couple of threads with regard to Xsample here:






Xsample Contemporary Solo Strings?


I just found this demo of Xsample Contemporary Solo Strings. Haven´t heard about their products before but the demo is really impressive both sample quality and notation software integration. So is their woodwind library. Have anyone tried the Contemporary Solo Strings or any of their other...



vi-control.net


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2022)

dyross said:


> Hi @EanS - thanks for the repsonse.
> 
> My issue isn't that CC7 doesn't work with my workflow. It's relatively easy for me to use CC7 instead of CC11. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be an inside-the-plugin volume control , so to speak, that controls the instrument pre-reverb. Rather, the Kontakt-level CC7 simply controls the gain coming out of the whole plugin.
> 
> ...


Also, calling Jim Buhler - he may know or at least be able to share his workflow. @jbuhler


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## jbuhler (May 10, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Also, calling Jim Buhler - he may know or at least be able to share his workflow. @jbuhler


I use an external reverb and disable the onboard reverb. So I’m using cc7 like you are. I have had thoughts about going behind the wrench and creating a new modulator with cc11-like behaviors since I find I like to reserve cc7 for other uses. But I haven’t gotten around to it yet.


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## holywilly (May 10, 2022)

If I wanna buy one of the winds, as my very first Xsample instrument, which one should I get? I’m thinking of Oboe, English Horn, Clarinet Bb and a Bassoon.


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2022)

holywilly said:


> If I wanna buy one of the winds, as my very first Xsample instrument, which one should I get? I’m thinking of Oboe, English Horn, Clarinet Bb and a Bassoon.


Those are all fine. You did just miss out on a rare sale though. I posted my own personal favourites somewhere in there, as well as some audio demo’s that may be of help:



https://vi-control.net/community/threads/sale-ended-xsample-woodwinds-35-off-eur-162-14-excellent-woodwind-instruments-i-highly-recommend.124644/


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## dyross (May 10, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I use an external reverb and disable the onboard reverb. So I’m using cc7 like you are. I have had thoughts about going behind the wrench and creating a new modulator with cc11-like behaviors since I find I like to reserve cc7 for other uses. But I haven’t gotten around to it yet.


Thanks for the reply. 

Which patch are you using? An xfade between the three layers? Do you have them mapped between different volumes, or only use cc7 for volume?

And are you using Dorico?


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## PrimeEagle (May 10, 2022)

holywilly said:


> If I wanna buy one of the winds, as my very first Xsample instrument, which one should I get? I’m thinking of Oboe, English Horn, Clarinet Bb and a Bassoon.


You could try Clarinet (A), since it's not in the bundle. So if you like it and want to get the bundle later, you wouldn't have duplicate instruments.


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2022)

holywilly said:


> If I wanna buy one of the winds, as my very first Xsample instrument, which one should I get? I’m thinking of Oboe, English Horn, Clarinet Bb and a Bassoon.


Oh, as a matter of fact I posted my own list of favourites in post 141 of this very thread haha


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## holywilly (May 10, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Oh, as a matter of fact I posted my own list of favourites in post 141 of this very thread haha


Ah, I totally missed that post. I’ll probably try Clarinet A and Bassoon first.

I’ve been using VSL VI winds for ages, they are still my go to. How do Xsamples winds compare with VSL VI winds? In terms of playability and flexibility to customize person preset.


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Ah, I totally missed that post. I’ll probably try Clarinet A and Bassoon first.
> 
> I’ve been using VSL VI winds for ages, they are still my go to. How do Xsamples winds compare with VSL VI winds?


I have only recently acquired the Synchronized Woodwinds (and Synchron Woodwinds). I prefer the S’yzed ones.

Xsample winds aren’t as nimble as their Synchronized / VI sisters are. The playable trills you can do with VSL aren’t really viable on Xsample instruments. But in terms of quality and tone they are in the same league of just “beautiful tone”, which is of coure very subjective. 

Xsample also doesn’t offer repeat articulations etc, and no recorded a2 / a3 etc. ensembles.

They are recorded dry and do offer a whole bunch of articulations you won’t find in any VSL woodwind collection. I can just load them up and play and be pleased with the results. But YMMV, if you’re using a lot CC automation there may be issues ahead, given the hardcoded CC11 destination (reverb). Me, I’m just a piano player - I take a patch and play stuff in. For that Xsample instruments are great. I never have had a need to automate CC7 for instance.

Of course the Synchron and VI Players are superior when compared to either Kontakt and the Xsample UI  but in all honesty, I hardly ever use any UI. I mostly just play samples and can’t be bothered too much by GUIs.


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2022)

holywilly said:


> and flexibility to customize person preset.


I’ve never had a real need to. But your kind of stuck with the controls on the UI and there are no mic positions or really a whole lot of tweakable parameters, except the usual round robin stuff, some smart “ensemble” function to basically do an automatic transposition trick - and that’s about it. I typically use an external reverb (MIR) anyway.

So -again- your best use case is likely “load up instrument / switch off reverb / play”.


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## holywilly (May 10, 2022)

Thanks @doctoremmet 

I’m just afraid that eventually I’ll complete the Xsample bundle. 

I’ll take a closer look at Xsample instruments.


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2022)

In terms of sound esthetic I felt right at home as an Xsample fan, when I first played VSL. So I guess it can work the other way around as well


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## dyross (May 10, 2022)

holywilly said:


> In terms of playability and flexibility to customize person preset.


Im finding the UI learning curve to be pretty high, but once you get it, you can do a lot. 

For example, you can select any three sounds and do a cc1 blend between them at any volume. Or you can set up a 2D blend with cc1 and cc2 to enable vibrato on your velocity layers. 

Some stuff is hard coded - you can only use cc1 and cc2 for fades / blends, cc7 (not cc11!) for expression / volume. But once you dig the UI set up and understand the constraints, there’s a lot you can tweak under the hood.


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## holywilly (May 10, 2022)

Alright, I pull the trigger on Woodwinds Complete (paying the full price ).

My first time purchasing from Xsample, how do I download the samples? The payment method was too easy, even without asking me entering the email. Now I'm like


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## dyross (May 10, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Alright, I pull the trigger on Woodwinds Complete (paying the full price ).
> 
> My first time purchasing from Xsample, how do I download the samples? The payment method was too easy, even without asking me entering the email. Now I'm like


It's a manual process; @Hans Josef will email you a link, most likely within the next day or so.


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## holywilly (May 10, 2022)

dyross said:


> It's a manual process; @Hans Josef will email you a link, most likely within the next day or so.


Thanks! Can't wait to join the Xsample family.


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## Hans Josef (May 11, 2022)

dyross said:


> @gamma-ut thanks so much for the link - this is super helpful.
> 
> A question, if you don't mind:
> 
> ...


For this case there is the cc#2 controller. In my opinion it sounds much better to use cc#2 for fades near silence then only a cc7 or cc11 volume fade. But this is perharps only me...


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## PrimeEagle (May 11, 2022)

Does anyone know what document(s) are needed for the educational discount? I provided a copy of the class registration showing enrollment and schedule for the current semester, but he didn’t know what that document was. It’s what I’ve used with other developers. Any idea what I need to get?


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## Bee_Abney (May 11, 2022)

PrimeEagle said:


> Does anyone know what document(s) are needed for the educational discount? I provided a copy of the class registration showing enrollment and schedule for the current semester, but he didn’t know what that document was. It’s what I’ve used with other developers. Any idea what I need to get?


Maybe he is looking for a certificate/reference letter confirming attendance. Did your schedule name your degree programme? Confirmation of being registered for multiple classes may not be as clear as a document confirming the overall full-time programme.


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## PrimeEagle (May 11, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Maybe he is looking for a certificate/reference letter confirming attendance. Did your schedule name your degree programme? Confirmation of being registered for multiple classes may not be as clear as a document confirming the overall full-time programme.


Hmm maybe. All the document are accessed online and I don’t see anything like that. Just having access to the online system is proof of enrollment but I don’t know how to prove that. I’ll check what documents are available again.


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## doctoremmet (May 11, 2022)

PrimeEagle said:


> Hmm maybe. All the document are accessed online and I don’t see anything like that. Just having access to the online system is proof of enrollment but I don’t know how to prove that. I’ll check what documents are available again.








I think @Hans Josef needs a confirmation of your institute that says you are actively enrolled in a qualifying educational programme.


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## PrimeEagle (May 11, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I think @Hans Josef needs a confirmation of your institute that says you are actively enrolled in a qualifying educational programme.


Right, but the university doesn’t have a document exclusively for that. They provide the class schedule as proof of registration in classes for the current semester. That should prove current enrollment.


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## Bee_Abney (May 11, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I think @Hans Josef needs a confirmation of your institute that says you are actively enrolled in a qualifying educational programme.


The key thing is that the confirmation must come direct from your institution. This is similar to sort of thing I've provided before, where I've written a letter/email confirming that one of my students was enrolled and actively learning. But for enrolment only, an admin email should be enough.

The chances are that all of your institution's staff have access to a computer system that would enable them to confirm your enrolment and attendance; but this isn't something that students would have direct access to ordinarily.


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## PrimeEagle (May 11, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> The key thing is that the confirmation must come direct from your institution. This is similar to sort of thing I've provided before, where I've written a letter/email confirming that one of my students was enrolled and actively learning. But for enrolment only, an admin email should be enough.
> 
> The chances are that all of your institution's staff have access to a computer system that would enable them to confirm your enrolment and attendance; but this isn't something that students would have direct access to ordinarily.


The university has something like 50,000 students so nobody handles individual personal requests. They have a student login used to retrieve any documents one might need.


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## doctoremmet (May 11, 2022)

As an assistant professor I have done the same for some of my former students as well. The key will likely be that you provide something slightly more convincing, rather than documents that maybe are a bit generic or not containing your credentials, which can be hard for an outsider to “judge” or scrutinize… ?


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## doctoremmet (May 11, 2022)

PrimeEagle said:


> The university has something like 50,000 students so nobody handles individual personal requests. They have a student login used to retrieve any documents one might need.


Do you have a student pass, with your name on it and a clear indication of the educational / academic programme you’re enrolled in? I’m just guessing here, but maybe just ask Hans Josef directly for an example of what type of evidence he is used to receiving?


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## Bee_Abney (May 11, 2022)

PrimeEagle said:


> The university has something like 50,000 students so nobody handles individual personal requests. They have a student login used to retrieve any documents one might need.


Okay; but Hans Josef won't know that your institution is distinctive in not doing this sort of thing. It's unusual in my experience.

If your University doesn't provide this (normally routine) service, perhaps you should just explain that in an email, outlining the nature of the proof you have provided.


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## dyross (May 11, 2022)

Hans Josef said:


> For this case there is the cc#2 controller. In my opinion it sounds much better to use cc#2 for fades near silence then only a cc7 or cc11 volume fade. But this is perharps only me...


Hi @Hans Josef - can you clarify how this would work? Do I set up an additional sound with, like, -Inf volume and have that be in the 2-D cross-fade for cc#2?


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## PrimeEagle (May 11, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Okay; but Hans Josef won't know that your institution is distinctive in not doing this sort of thing. It's unusual in my experience.
> 
> If your University doesn't provide this (normally routine) service, perhaps you should just explain that in an email, outlining the nature of the proof you have provided.


Okay, I found a section online that generates a letter/document called "Proof of Enrollment". It has name and ID, stamped seal of the university, and the current semester date. Hopefully that will work!


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## Tanarri (May 11, 2022)

We definitely need some tutorial videos on the elastic patches. 😁


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## jbuhler (May 11, 2022)

Hans Josef said:


> For this case there is the cc#2 controller. In my opinion it sounds much better to use cc#2 for fades near silence then only a cc7 or cc11 volume fade. But this is perharps only me...


Yeah, do you want to explain how this works? Per the extended scripting manual CC2 is part of the Xfade regime that isn't exactly straightforward. CC2 has various modes for xfade: /=p, \=forte, and then there is \50%. There is also "off," but even "off" having CC2 data will alter the sound, so it's not clear what's happening with that—it's evidently not off, but doing something else. But what? Beyond that it's not clear how this works even when you have a modality selected. One presumes that CC2 is selecting the amount of the layer that is being crossfaded, so either crossfading to the p layer or the forte layer. CC1 allows the same functionality but adds the /\=mf so now I guess you can adjust two of the layers at an individual level. But it's still not clear to me how the interaction is supposed to work on this. And of course the manual gives no guidance at all about how the behavior actually works. The interaction of the CCs with the scripting is also such that it is difficult to isolate what the CC is actually doing, so it would be very helpful to have more in depth discussion in the manual or a video tutorial that goes into how to set the instrument up to use these CCs. 

CC1 also has five switch modes in addition (the manual only refers to the switch 2 and switch 3 modes, but switch 2 has two modes of its own and switch 3 has 3). Switch 2 switches between two layers, and Switch 3 between 3, but the manual does not specify the difference in the Switch 2 (1) and Switch 2 (2), for example. So again it would be useful to have some examples in the manual or a video tutorial to explain how these work.

As for using CC2 for a fade out, I don't understand how you think this should work because it only tapers to a certain degree and then you need to dip the volume to complete the passing of the tone into the reverb. And I'm not even talking about niente here but just getting a smoother release. So again a tutorial and how all of this is supposed to work would be helpful.


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## dyross (May 11, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Yeah, do you want to explain how this works? Per the extended scripting manual CC2 is part of the Xfade regime that isn't exactly straightforward. CC2 has various modes for xfade: /=p, \=forte, and then there is \50%. There is also "off," but even "off" having CC2 data will alter the sound, so it's not clear what's happening with that—it's evidently not off, but doing something else. But what? Beyond that it's not clear how this works even when you have a modality selected. One presumes that CC2 is selecting the amount of the layer that is being crossfaded, so either crossfading to the p layer or the forte layer. CC1 allows the same functionality but adds the /\=mf so now I guess you can adjust two of the layers at an individual level. But it's still not clear to me how the interaction is supposed to work on this. And of course the manual gives no guidance at all about how the behavior actually works. The interaction of the CCs with the scripting is also such that it is difficult to isolate what the CC is actually doing, so it would be very helpful to have more in depth discussion in the manual or a video tutorial that goes into how to set the instrument up to use these CCs.
> 
> CC1 also has five switch modes in addition (the manual only refers to the switch 2 and switch 3 modes, but switch 2 has two modes of its own and switch 3 has 3). Switch 2 switches between two layers, and Switch 3 between 3, but the manual does not specify the difference in the Switch 2 (1) and Switch 2 (2), for example. So again it would be useful to have some examples in the manual or a video tutorial to explain how these work.
> 
> As for using CC2 for a fade out, I don't understand how you think this should work because it only tapers to a certain degree and then you need to dip the volume to complete the passing of the tone into the reverb. And I'm not even talking about niente here but just getting a smoother release. So again a tutorial and how all of this is supposed to work would be helpful.


What I've sussed out so far is:

First, you can have a 3-way CC1 fade by selecting 3 sounds, and setting their CC1 value to /, /\, and \ successively. The "vibrato modwheel" patch demonstrates this.

Now, we can set a 4th sound to *anything*, but lower the volume knob to something like -Inf. We can use CC2 to fade between this new sound, and each of the previous 3 sounds. So, the new sound would have /, and the other three would each have \ for CC2 fade.

So, now we have a 2D fade, CC1 blends between the dynamic layers, and CC2 blends in silence.


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## jbuhler (May 11, 2022)

This is still confusing, so let's see if I can work this out. I have selected vibrato modwheel articulation. This seems to do what it says, use the modwheel to crossfade between the first three slots. The fourth sound is edit sound slot 4, the red square amidst all the blue squares. This indicates that slot is being edited. 







But as it is set up, CC2 never takes it to silence whether I have something loaded in that slot or not and it doesn't matter which articulation I have loaded in slot 4 or indeed even if I have nothing loaded there. If I set the volume to -inf then often the instrument simply ceases playing and changing the volume knob does nothing, but I have to reload the instrument. The values don't often seem to stick if I change to a different slot. Sometimes, as with -inf, they stick too well and it seems no way to undo it other than reloading the instrument. So this behavior all remains perplexing.

In any case, with slot four lit up red, I can add a new articulation to that slot with the dropdown menu. I can then set the crossfade behavior using the dropdown menus for CC2 and CC1. And I believe the volume knob will set the max volume for that slot.

So here it is loaded up default for Vibrato modwheel:





Slot four is empty. Notice that Xfade CC2 and CC1 is set to off by default. It's important to recognize that this isn't the actual state of the slots and so I'm not sure what this is indicating.

Here's are the states of slots 1, 2, and 3, and you can see that CC1 assignments change but CC2 is the same \50% setting:











If I'm understanding this correctly, CC2 is crossfading between slot 4 (no articulation=silence) and whatever CC1 is sending. CC2 does not go to silence as the default because CC2 only crossfades to silence at 50%. Changing CC2 from \50% to \ in each of the slots will in fact take the sound to zero. So that's the behavior that I'm wanting. In practice since moves on CC2 will be coupled with moves on the modwheel, it's probably only necessary to change slot 3 from \50% to \. Then when you are on the lowest dynamic layer, taking CC2 to 127 will fade to silence. 

Personally, I think it would be convenient to invert CC2 so you can think about CC2 as more on par with the usual CC11 (expression) behavior.

In any case, this is getting me the behavior I want. But it does mean going into every articulation that uses crossfades and setting up the proper behavior.


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## dyross (May 11, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> This is still confusing, so let's see if I can work this out. I have selected vibrato modwheel articulation. This seems to do what it says, use the modwheel to crossfade between the first three slots. The fourth sound is edit sound slot 4, the red square amidst all the blue squares. This indicates that slot is being edited.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you're on the right track, yeah.

It seems the other option is to use CC7 and disable reverb.


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## holywilly (May 12, 2022)

How to properly install on a Mac, i downloaded, putting things together, batch re-save, and I’m able to play the instruments. However I cannot see the preset name, no matter how I change the preset, it’s blank.


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## Hans Josef (May 12, 2022)

The installation is not correct.
If you use the jar installer please follow the install.pdf.
If you use the rar files please put all content of the basic setup archive into the folder of the complete part 1 archive.
Please put no content manually into folders.


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## synergy543 (May 12, 2022)

Is there a photo showing the proper folder install and hierachy. I too had trouble installing on the Mac. 

And I bought the Ab clarinet separately, but can it be intergrated with the other instruments? This is why I'd like to see a photo of the installation hierachy to make sure I have done it correctly.


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## kgdrum (May 12, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Is there a photo showing the proper folder install and hierachy. I too had trouble installing on the Mac.
> 
> And I bought the Ab clarinet separately, but can it be intergrated with the other instruments? This is why I'd like to see a photo of the installation hierachy to make sure I have done it correctly.




@Hans Josef 

+1 this would be most helpful.


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## Hans Josef (May 13, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Is there a photo showing the proper folder install and hierachy. I too had trouble installing on the Mac.
> 
> And I bought the Ab clarinet separately, but can it be intergrated with the other instruments? This is why I'd like to see a photo of the installation hierachy to make sure I have done it correctly.


Every instrument from complete or the modular series comes into the folder "Xsample_Collection".
You even don't worry about it if you extract all Xsample libraries into the same installation folder.
If your rar tool can't integrate into one folder, it will make several numbered "Xsample_Collection" folder.
In this case copy the whole content of every numbered folder into the "Xsample_Collection" folder.


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## synergy543 (May 13, 2022)

Hans Josef said:


> Every instrument from complete or the modular series comes into the folder "Xsample_Collection".
> You even don't worry about it if you extract all Xsample libraries into the same installation folder.
> If your rar tool can't integrate into one folder, it will make several numbered "Xsample_Collection" folder.
> In this case copy the whole content of every numbered folder into the "Xsample_Collection" folder.


Thank you Hans. This is very helpful.


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## robgb (May 13, 2022)

Has anyone tried the budget "player" versions of these woodwinds? I realize they lack all of the controls of the Kontakt versions, but what about sound?


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## holywilly (May 18, 2022)

I put all woodwinds inside VEP, select mono 1 for all instruments, and all instruments sound panned left whenever I load up my template. No problem with stereo default. 

I’d like to have mono configuration for Xsample woodwinds, is there any solution to make them sound in the middle when ever I load up my template?

@Hans Josef


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## gamma-ut (May 18, 2022)

I imagine the mono setting outputs just on the left channel. What happens next is going to depend on the DAW, which unless it's Ableton Live, presumably has some kind of mono support.


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## holywilly (May 18, 2022)

Ah I see, guess I have use kontakt mono for that.

Also, how are you guys using Xsample woodwinds for trills? 

By the way, Kudos for the provided expression map, it’s such a time saver!


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## Hans Josef (May 18, 2022)

holywilly said:


> I put all woodwinds inside VEP, select mono 1 for all instruments, and all instruments sound panned left whenever I load up my template. No problem with stereo default.
> 
> I’d like to have mono configuration for Xsample woodwinds, is there any solution to make them sound in the middle when ever I load up my template?
> 
> @Hans Josef


The mono 1 and mono 2 switch are mono switches. They should not sound only on the left side.


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## holywilly (May 18, 2022)

Hans Josef said:


> The mono 1 and mono 2 switch are mono switches. They should not sound only on the left side.


They sound on the left channel whenever I load up my template (VEP).


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## Hans Josef (May 26, 2022)

dyross said:


> @gamma-ut thanks so much for the link - this is super helpful.
> 
> A question, if you don't mind:
> 
> ...


I think there is no "classic" cc#11 behaviour. Some developers uses a simple volume control, some uses this for the crossfades. Xsample uses cc#1 for the crossfades and cc#2 (breath) as "phrasing controller". You can use cc#2 at an end of a phrase to go "near niente". But it is not recomended to center this controller like cc#11 since it colours the sound.


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## robgb (Aug 25, 2022)

So... I bought the English Horn and got a PayPal receipt, but no indication how to download the instrument. Does anyone know how this works?


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## dyross (Aug 25, 2022)

robgb said:


> So... I bought the English Horn and got a PayPal receipt, but no indication how to download the instrument. Does anyone know how this works?



You'll get an email from them within 24 hours, most likely. They don't have this automated, apparently.


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