# I have 175 music tracks on Sound Cloud and in the last year and a half I have accumulated over 9 million plays.



## Terence Thomas

I am looking to make connections with the movie industry. Websites that promise to get you reviewed by motion picture producers have not followed through on over 300 well received submissions.


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## Double Helix

Perhaps acquiring an agent (or, first step, signing with an agency) would give you a leg up. Good luck!


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## dcoscina

Ok… have you ever scored a film before? A student film? A short? Even an ad? Anything media based?

Writing songs is a different discipline altogether. You need excellent communication skills and also a broad base of skill to accommodate various styles and genres. Are you into film? Have you studied film? Do you know the different between a dolly and a pan? Or jump cut from parallel action from montage? All these things help immeasurably if your plan is to score films or tv. Just being able to write music that sounds cinematic is not enough.


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## Mikro93

To whom it may concern




I think that people in the movie industry might be looking for other genres of music, overall. That being said, I am not in the movie industry, so this is maybe not very constructive.


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## creativeforge

Terence Thomas said:


> I am looking to make connections with the movie industry. Websites that promise to get you reviewed by motion picture producers have not followed through on over 300 well received submissions.



QUOTE (from Terence former Broadjam page): 
_"I am a ballet composer and wrote fifteen ballets for six dance companies in New York City. I also write Movie music and have over 243 dramatic tracks, 24 tracks can be heard on Sound Cloud."_

Terence, maybe specify which context your music was mostly used? On another site ▲ you mentioned ballets? Any video we could see?

And your book "Sound Synthesis"? Link?

Good luck!

Andre


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## SchnookyPants

I've got about 9 million tracks and like 175 plays. My wife's right...

I'm a _TOTAL INVERT._

And just to PROVE it, watch: Not one of you is going to follow the SC link in my sig.


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## Terence Thomas

creativeforge said:


> QUOTE: "I am a ballet composer and wrote fifteen ballets for six dance companies in New York City. I also write Movie music and have over 243 dramatic tracks, 24 tracks can be heard on Sound Cloud."
> 
> Maybe specify which kind of context your music was mostly used? On another site ▲ you mentioned ballets? Any video we could see?
> 
> And your book "Sound Synthesis"? Link?
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Andre


You can see my book on Amazon. My music covers a lot of styles and moods, I have a history of ballet performances available on Sound Cloud.


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## Terence Thomas

Double Helix said:


> Perhaps acquiring an agent (or, first step, signing with an agency) would give you a leg up. Good luck!


I have tried a number of agents and have yet to make any real connection, agents are hard to reach.


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## creativeforge

Terence Thomas said:


> You can see my book on Amazon. My music covers a lot of styles and moods, I have a history of ballet performances available on Sound Cloud.


Link to your book on Amazon? Heights is not it.


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## Terence Thomas

creativeforge said:


> Link to your book on Amazon? Heights is not it.


If you are serious about my book try "Sound Synthesis - Analog and Digital Techniques" it is not just on Amazon.


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## José Herring

Terence Thomas said:


> I am looking to make connections with the movie industry. Websites that promise to get you reviewed by motion picture producers have not followed through on over 300 well received submissions.


There are a lot of scams in this industry and this may be one of them. I'm not sure because I've never used any website that promised to promote my music but knowing many filmmakers I doubt that they would even use such a service. 

The best way to get scoring work is to make personal contact. Develop a relationship. Work on something, anything that will get some notice somewhere. Another way is to work with an already established composer getting coffee and taking the insults with grace. The latter is much harder but has made film composing legends. I actually regret not doing this. 

At any rate what you don't want to do is throw your music out there randomly on some site hoping that some filmmaker comes along and loves what you do enough to hire you. Not saying it couldn't work but seems unlikely. Filmmakers already know 10 composers that they've already worked with and love and would more than likely go with somebody they know.

On the other hand, you may get lucky. No one way to get work. just seems like Soundcloud and submitting to websites that "promise" to get you heard seems like the least probable way to get work. In the years of me doing this and nearly 3 dozen films, documentaries, ect later, only once have I been contacted by a producer based on a website advert, and it didn't work out.

I don't know where you live but when I got my first films I lived in New York and was getting work based on just talking to filmmakers on the phone visiting their editing suites, post houses, ect. Mind you NY is a much more open place that's far more social than LA and when I tried that here I just got my ass chewed out repeatedly. It's a much more hostile environment perhaps because the people are much higher level than what was generally the indie Scene in NY. So in LA emails, and letters introducing yourself and inviting people to go to your website, getting invited to meetings, being sociable and remaining cool in spite of coming across characters is important. Knowing people, the good, the bad, the ugly and the drop dead gorgeous and not really being effected any way which I've noticed for some is really hard, but it's not like your marrying these people so I never understood why some people have a button on other kinds of people.

Your music is important but few if any will listen unless there's a compelling reason for them to do so. And those reasons will be past credits and if you don't have anything of note, your ability to talk to people.

These days there are millions of composer with internet access. Millions upon millions. Filmmakers are still pretty rare as the lifestyle is way more perioulous that composing is. I litterally know filmmakers that are serving prison time for financial fraud. So the lifespan of any given producer even after he makes it averages about 7 years in my estimation. Some make it a lot longer of course, but if you look at their most productive years it can be rather short. 

That being said, getting work takes a lot more effort than hoping you get noticed. It really takes a connection with people that could use your music on an ongoing continual basis. I briefly have known over the years some very successful composers and you know what they all have in common. It isn't talent. Some are talented and some aren't. It isn't training. some are trained and some aren't. It isn't great music, that's subjective. They ALL are great salesmen. They can sell themselves to an almost shameful degree. Then they all can deliver. So the pitch comes first, then the follow through. Sell people that you can do great music, then give them great music that works for their project. Don't sell your music to them. Sell your ability to give them what they want and some of your past music might help the pitch but it isn't the pitch. 

I'm rambling. It's one of those days for me.


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## Blakus

Terence Thomas said:


> I am looking to make connections with the movie industry. Websites that promise to get you reviewed by motion picture producers have not followed through on over 300 well received submissions.


I don’t know how to say this without it sounding rude, but I think you might have some work to do. I just checked your Soundcloud and the millions of plays and comments appear to be all from bots. If I were you I wouldn’t allow myself to find comfort/confidence from those faux numbers.

If you’ve sent music to hundreds of people and are hearing nothing back, this may also be another indicator that you have more work to do? If you’re looking to break into movie soundtracks, do you critically compare the quality of your work to the music of others who are successful in that area? Does your music hold up?

IMO, time spent getting better is far better than time spent promoting yourself - especially if you’ve been trying and not having much luck finding work. Time to level up, good luck!


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## José Herring

Mikro93 said:


> To whom it may concern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that people in the movie industry might be looking for other genres of music, overall. That being said, I am not in the movie industry, so this is maybe not very constructive.



Listening to this there's something that just doesn't seem genuine which is also something that filmmakers would sniff out. In a town full of imposters they can smell an imposter.

The most obvious thing is that your likes seem to be bought in some way. The piece is getting responses like it's the latest DJ drop but yet is a fairly avantgarde art type piece that usually wouldn't get any notice at all on a format like Soundcloud.

Next, you're calling it a piano concerto played at Lincoln Center and coming from that environment myself you think that you would have actually done a live recording rather than try and push a sampled solo piano piece as a concerto.

You're not making sense which will scare a lot of people that are use to being scammed.


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## dcoscina

José Herring said:


> There are a lot of scams in this industry and this may be one of them. I'm not sure because I've never used any website that promised to promote my music but knowing many filmmakers I doubt that they would even use such a service.
> 
> The best way to get scoring work is to make personal contact. Develop a relationship. Work on something, anything that will get some notice somewhere. Another way is to work with an already established composer getting coffee and taking the insults with grace. The latter is much harder but has made film composing legends. I actually regret not doing this.
> 
> At any rate what you don't want to do is throw your music out there randomly on some site hoping that some filmmaker comes along and loves what you do enough to hire you. Not saying it couldn't work but seems unlikely. Filmmakers already know 10 composers that they've already worked with and love and would more than likely go with somebody they know.
> 
> On the other hand, you may get lucky. No one way to get work. just seems like Soundcloud and submitting to websites that "promise" to get you heard seems like the least probable way to get work. In the years of me doing this and nearly 3 dozen films, documentaries, ect later, only once have I been contacted by a producer based on a website advert, and it didn't work out.
> 
> I don't know where you live but when I got my first films I lived in New York and was getting work based on just talking to filmmakers on the phone visiting their editing suites, post houses, ect. Mind you NY is a much more open place that's far more social than LA and when I tried that here I just got my ass chewed out repeatedly. It's a much more hostile environment perhaps because the people are much higher level than what was generally the indie Scene in NY. So in LA emails, and letters introducing yourself and inviting people to go to your website, getting invited to meetings, being sociable and remaining cool in spite of coming across characters is important. Knowing people, the good, the bad, the ugly and the drop dead gorgeous and not really being effected any way which I've noticed for some is really hard, but it's not like your marrying these people so I never understood why some people have a button on other kinds of people.
> 
> Your music is important but few if any will listen unless there's a compelling reason for them to do so. And those reasons will be past credits and if you don't have anything of note, your ability to talk to people.
> 
> These days there are millions of composer with internet access. Millions upon millions. Filmmakers are still pretty rare as the lifestyle is way more perioulous that composing is. I litterally know filmmakers that are serving prison time for financial fraud. So the lifespan of any given producer even after he makes it averages about 7 years in my estimation. Some make it a lot longer of course, but if you look at their most productive years it can be rather short.
> 
> That being said, getting work takes a lot more effort than hoping you get noticed. It really takes a connection with people that could use your music on an ongoing continual basis. I briefly have known over the years some very successful composers and you know what they all have in common. It isn't talent. Some are talented and some aren't. It isn't training. some are trained and some aren't. It isn't great music, that's subjective. They ALL are great salesmen. They can sell themselves to an almost shameful degree. Then they all can deliver. So the pitch comes first, then the follow through. Sell people that you can do great music, then give them great music that works for their project. Don't sell your music to them. Sell your ability to give them what they want and some of your past music might help the pitch but it isn't the pitch.
> 
> I'm rambling. It's one of those days for me.


Great post Jose. Gold actually


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## Terence Thomas

Terence Thomas said:


> If you are serious about my book try "Sound Synthesis - Analog and Digital Techniques" it is not just on Amazon.





Blakus said:


> I don’t know how to say this without it sounding rude, but I think you might have some work to do. I just checked your Soundcloud and the millions of plays and comments appear to be all from bots. If I were you I wouldn’t allow myself to find comfort/confidence from those faux numbers.
> 
> If you’ve sent music to hundreds of people and are hearing nothing back, this may also be another indicator that you have more work to do? If you’re looking to break into movie soundtracks, do you critically compare the quality of your work to the music of others who are successful in that area? Does your music hold up?
> 
> IMO, time spent getting better is far better than time spent promoting yourself - especially if you’ve been trying and not having much luck finding work. Time to level up, good luck!


I am a great composer and successful, for I am able to transform what is in my mind to the recorded media. Weather anyone likes it or not is irrelevant. If someone does and I become universally famous, that would be nice, but my happiness does not depend on this. Most of what I do is pursue music, not search for fame. I also write Science Fiction and I write articles on Quantum Physics which gives me a lot of satisfaction. We seem to be living in a world run by morons, so rejection is in some ways flattering. I do not let reality spoil my joy in life. If someone recognizes my talent that is great,
but if not I am happy just the same.


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## Gerbil




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## Terence Thomas

Gerbil said:


>


What do you find familiar?


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## Gaffable

Gerbil said:


>


I suspect that the author of this thread is the same person who created the My Reasons For Planning To Become Famous thread. Both authors use language in a similar way and talk about themselves in grandiose terms and have almost identical avatars.


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## Terence Thomas

Gaffable said:


> I suspect that the author of the thread is the same person who created the My Reasons For Planning To Become Famous thread. Both authors use language in a similar way, talk about themselves in grandiose terms and have almost identical avatars.


No, Not me. I don't even have an avatar.


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## Terence Thomas

Pier said:


> Without looking at the title, I thought it was some sort of synth...


My concert at Lincoln Center was not a Concerto, it was merely a few solo piano performances.


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## José Herring

Terence Thomas said:


> I am a great composer and successful, for I am able to transform what is in my mind to the recorded media. Weather anyone likes it or not is irrelevant. If someone does and I become universally famous, that would be nice, but my happiness does not depend on this. Most of what I do is pursue music, not search for fame. I also write Science Fiction and I write articles on Quantum Physics which gives me a lot of satisfaction. We seem to be living in a world run by morons, so rejection is in some ways flattering. I do not let reality spoil my joy in life. If someone recognizes my talent that is great,
> but if not I am happy just the same.


There are those that are truly skilled at media composition and those that fool themselves. Most people lay somewhere on a scale of that. @Blakus is the rare once in a generation type of artist that can handle the tools of the trade like very few can. If he's saying you need work--you need work, and even a casual listen to two of your posted pieces is enough to convince anybody that you need work. 

In the end if you are sincere, no matter how successful you've been in the arena of live ballet performances, it's without a doubt in this game of music for media, you'll need a lot of improvement. It's not even the style of music that you chose which is perfectly valid but the level of quality that needs a lot of improvement. Even picking higher quality sounds would up your game. Investing in good libraries, ect...

Don't take it personally. It's just an honest observation.


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## José Herring

Terence Thomas said:


> My concert at Lincoln Center was not a Concerto, it was merely a few solo piano performances.


If this were the case, It wouldn't have been hard to get a live recording of the performances. It's standard at Lincoln Center to do that. Or, you could have brought a recorder and recorded it with the player after the fact if recording in the Hall presented a legal challenge. That's where your story doesn't add up. And that's the problem. 

Also, Lincoln Center doesn't mean anything to anyone outside of the performing arts. Trust me, I've done notable performances in both Alice Tully Hall and Avery Fisher Hall (now called Gefen Hall) and yet I'm more known for the guy that did The Herring Clarinet which as good as that instrument is, isn't as good as me playing recitals in Alice Tully Hall when I was at my finest as a performer.

I say that not to discourage you but to make you realize that as far as composition for filmed media is concerned, you'll need to start from scratch and find out what really gets placed and accepted in this media.


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## Terence Thomas

Did anyone bother to listen to my music? What kind of introduction to this website is this. I am certainly not on the right track to anything if this is the welcome I have received. What do you mean by "Who here has told you you're on the right track and suggested you ignore these experienced composers thoughtful advice. Your advice was certainly not encouraging and I can see that I won't learn anything here with such a bunch of touchy composers that can joke with me but can't take a joke. No one has offered any real advice, thoughtful or not. Did anyone bother to listen to any of my music or to bother to find out anything about my writings. You certainly have nerve to call yourself thoughtful!


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## creativeforge

Terence Thomas said:


> I am looking to make connections with the movie industry. Websites that promise to get you reviewed by motion picture producers have not followed through on over 300 well received submissions.


I've listened to a few of your SoundCloud pieces, at random, and came to the same conclusion each time: "OK, so did he compose this for dance/ballet? If so, it would be great to see a video of it."

Otherwise, if not for modern dance, or installations, I do not clearly understand the genre. Just that it feels unpolished.

I think what everyone is saying is that those numbers are impressive, if they represent real people. B aside from that, from a professional perspective, I think they point to the question of context and quality.

Movie scores today are blasted through 7.1 surround systems, a lot of it. I'm not a professional, but my understanding is that composing is only one part of it. Then comes the arrangements, the recording, the editing, mixing and mastering. And this is what the industry's potential interest would look for in your own music. And so far, you seem to fit a very narrow niche.

This being said, beside the bad humour by some, you have received excellent reviews and advice in order to up your game, IF you are ready to think about it and do the work.

Alternatively, someone suggested you start like the rest of them have - do soundtracks for film school students projects, maybe other dance choreography, etc? Just to get you creating again (not sure if you still are actively composing), and you can be sure to find honest and constructive critics from members here.

Wishing you all the best, it's a jungle out there, but it can also sometimes be a zoo...

Peace,

Andre


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## Pincel

Terence Thomas said:


> Did anyone bother to listen to my music? What kind of introduction to this website is this. I am certainly not on the right track to anything if this is the welcome I have received. What do you mean by "Who here has told you you're on the right track and suggested you ignore these experienced composers thoughtful advice. Your advice was certainly not encouraging and I can see that I won't learn anything here with such a bunch of touchy composers that can joke with me but can't take a joke. No one has offered any real advice, thoughtful or not. Did anyone bother to listen to any of my music or to bother to find out anything about my writings. You certainly have nerve to call yourself thoughtful!


With all due respect, I believe José Herring gave you plenty of good advice earlier.


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## doctoremmet

People, especially José, have actually given some valuable pieces of advice. Maybe try and interpret a lot of reactions in this thread as a mere and very weak “echo” of what a director of a film production might want to ask you. For instance, the observation pertaining to a lot of the 9 million streams seemingly being bought? Is this rude? I don’t see it. Is it confrontational? For sure. But maybe there IS a lesson (and hence also an implied piece of advice) in there for you? Maybe try and answer a question like that?


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## Terence Thomas

José Herring said:


> There are those that are truly skilled at media composition and those that fool themselves. Most people lay somewhere on a scale of that. @Blakus is the rare once in a generation type of artist that can handle the tools of the trade like very few can. If he's saying you need work--you need work, and even a casual listen to two of your posted pieces is enough to convince anybody that you need work.
> 
> In the end if you are sincere, no matter how successful you've been in the arena of live ballet performances, it's without a doubt in this game of music for media, you'll need a lot of improvement. It's not even the style of music that you chose which is perfectly valid but the level of quality that needs a lot of improvement. Even picking higher quality sounds would up your game. Investing in good libraries, ect...
> 
> Don't take it personally. It's just an honest observation.


Who do you think you are listening to. I have not played a Concerto at Lincoln Center or any where else so what the hell are you talking about. Get your information straight before you explode in front of everyone.


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## Blakus

Terence Thomas said:


> Who do you think you are listening to. I have not played a Concerto at Lincoln Center or any where else so what the hell are you talking about. Get your information straight before you explode in front of everyone.


Well this is awkward






And the graphic attached to this piece:


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## creativeforge

Terence Thomas said:


> Who do you think you are listening to. I have not played a Concerto at Lincoln Center or any where else so what the hell are you talking about. Get your information straight before you explode in front of everyone.


I think he is referring to this:


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## Terence Thomas

doctoremmet said:


> People, especially José, have actually given some valuable pieces of advice. Maybe try and interpret a lot of reactions in this thread as a mere and very weak “echo” of what a director of a film production might want to ask you. For instance, the observation pertaining to a lot of the 9 million streams seemingly being bought? Is this rude? I don’t see it. Is it confrontational? For sure. But maybe there IS a lesson (and hence also an implied piece of advice) in there for you? Maybe try and answer a question like that?


I mentioned my hits on the internet, what's rude about that? I don't know why such an explosive reaction is taken from my merely saying that it is not career success that is is the key to happiness.
Chill out! Relax and make sure you are talking to the right person.


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## Alex Fraser

I'm not going to wade in on the music quality/career thing. It's nearly 1am here.

But..I will say this as someone who has nearly 18K "followers" on Soundcloud...don't read too much into those numbers. The site is rife with bots and I can't remember the last time I had a genuine interaction with a real person on there. That's all.


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## Terence Thomas

Gaffable said:


> I suspect that the author of this thread is the same person who created the My Reasons For Planning To Become Famous thread. Both authors use language in a similar way, talk about themselves in grandiose terms and have almost identical avatars.


Make sure You are talking to the right person!


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## antames

Hey Terence,

I checked out your SoundCloud and noticed your millions of views are from around 9 years ago, whereas your recent tracks have as little as 30.

Your sound is also very outdated - it is something I would expect to hear in the 70s and 80s, but not in 2021, and no filmmaker would be looking for the sound you are making at the moment.

My advice is that you need to update your sound to be more current and contemporary.

What DAW are you using? Do you own any software libraries or are you still producing from analog hardware synths?

Bring your talent to the here and now. Listen to what movie soundtracks of today sound like, and try to mimic that.

Good luck, and apologies if my post is a bit harsh.


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## Terence Thomas

antames said:


> Hey Terence,
> 
> I checked out your SoundCloud and noticed your millions of views are from around 9 years ago, whereas your recent tracks have as little as 30.
> 
> Your sound is also very outdated - it is something I would expect to hear in the 70s and 80s, but not in 2021, and no filmmaker would be looking for the sound you are making at the moment.
> 
> My advice is that you need to update your sound to be more current and contemporary.
> 
> What DAW are you using? Do you own any software libraries or are you still producing from analog hardware synths?
> 
> Bring your talent to the here and now. Listen to what movie soundtracks of today sound like, and try to mimic that.
> 
> Good luck, and apologies if my post is a bit harsh.


Yo are mistaken. The 9 million hits are just in the last year and a half. I certainly find your critique strange for some one that claims to encourage composers. What a waste, contacting a site like this!


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## Terence Thomas

kmaster said:


> Can we close this thread mods? It’s gone from embarrassing to mean. This guy can’t be bothered to Google José Herring and yet expects everyone to figure out who he is?
> 
> We know who he is. He’s a troll.
> 
> OP, if you ever really want help to or chat, please come back here with humility—not because we are ‘better’, but because we are humans too and deserve to be treated as such.


I am trying to recover from the mugging I took. I am trying to find out why this onslaught occurred. Are you a reasonable person? I am trying to figure out what I said to get such a vicus response. What did I say that ticked so many people off.


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## el-bo

Terence Thomas said:


> I am trying to recover from the mugging I took. I am trying to find out why this onslaught occurred. Are you a reasonable person? I am trying to figure out what I said to get such a vicus response. What did I say that ticked so many people off.


From what I can tell, you've not been mugged, there has been no onslaught and I've yet to see anything like a vicious response. There are many places where all of those things might've happened before passing the first third of the first page. It's a shame you have not spent enough time around here to realise that this place ain't that.

And despite your own - shall we say - foibles, you've received good advice from people who have experience doing the very thing that you want to do. I'd like to assume that if you'd realised this, you'd be somewhat grateful. But maybe you're so used to the fight that you can't recognise genuinely helpful advice when you see it. 

In that sense, perhaps you've developed too thick a skin, but in other respects (Considering how attacked you seem to feel and also the nature of the industry you want to break into), perhaps you need a thicker skin. But also, some sense of perspective and humility will help.

Rather than getting the thread closed, maybe draw a line (or two) under all of this...and start again...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you have a short list of tracks (3-5) that you could show, that you feel would suit the jobs for which you are submitting?


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## José Herring

Terence Thomas said:


> I am trying to recover from the mugging I took. I am trying to find out why this onslaught occurred. Are you a reasonable person? I am trying to figure out what I said to get such a vicus response. What did I say that ticked so many people off.


I can see that you got very upset. It wasn't anybody's intention to do so. You came here asking for advice on how to make connections and without even listening to your music me and a few others offered just that. Advice on how to get noticed.

Then I actually took the time to find out who you were and red flags started to present themselves. You aren't fooling anybody with the Soundcloud account. We are savvy composers and most filmmakers are savvy enough on social media, youtube ect to know when the likes have been fabricated and bought. 

Truth be told I don't even think that's such a bad thing that you did here. I actually also think you do know something about music. I think what is killing you is that the production of your music won't meet the minimum standards of what is considered "broadcast ready". It's strictly a matter of production quality.

There are many people that can help you out. We've all struggled at it and you came to the right place to go from where you are to professional sounding music quality in probably a short amount of time. But, instead you chose to take offense which you have every right to do, but that won't help you get noticed. Believe me I speak from experience on that.


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## babylonwaves

Terence Thomas said:


> I am trying to recover from the mugging I took. I am trying to find out why this onslaught occurred.


if you call what happens here an onslaught/mugging, you might want to think twice about working in the movie industry / media industry.


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## FlyingAndi

Terence Thomas said:


> Get your information straight before you explode in front of everyone.


I don't think there were any explosions here.

This is an honest question, not a reproach: did you ever learn how to receive feedback?
Feedback should be taken as a chance to grow and improve. But people who don't know how to deal with feedback or people who just aren't prepared to receive feedback in that moment take it as a trigger to extend their claws and defend themselves. (This also happens if feedback is given in a rude way.)
Sometimes it's hard to receive feedback and sometimes it takes time to grow.

Here's a good article about it: 
https://medium.com/awake-leadership-solutions/how-to-turn-any-feedback-into-an-opportunity-for-growth-6733880cc280

This is coming from someone who only creates music as a hobby and is not planning to become successfull with his music in this life. So I can't give you any film-music-industry-related advice first hand.
But I've found that learning to receive feedback helps in different areas of life, so I'm sure this applies to the film-music-industry as well.

Anyway, thanks for starting this thread. I (as an outsider) enjoyed getting some insight to the industry. I hope you can realize that people here are not just trying to discourage you.


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## Terence Thomas

José Herring said:


> I can see that you got very upset. It wasn't anybody's intention to do so. You came here asking for advice on how to make connections and without even listening to your music me and a few others offered just that. Advice on how to get noticed.
> 
> Then I actually took the time to find out who you were and red flags started to present themselves. You aren't fooling anybody with the Soundcloud account. We are savvy composers and most filmmakers are savvy enough on social media, youtube ect to know when the likes have been fabricated and bought.
> 
> Truth be told I don't even think that's such a bad thing that you did here. I actually also think you do know something about music. I think what is killing you is that the production of your music won't meet the minimum standards of what is considered "broadcast ready". It's strictly a matter of production quality.
> 
> There are many people that can help you out. We've all struggled at it and you came to the right place to go from where you are to professional sounding music quality in probably a short amount of time. But, instead you chose to take offense which you have every right to do, but that won't help you get noticed. Believe me I speak from experience on that.


If calling me a troll and questioning my validity as a writer is not grossly abusive then I don't think you know the meaning of the word. showing URL to me and asking if that is me when the spelling of my name is wrong and not checking the sources of my writing before accusing me if falsehoods that can easily checked out on the internet, then you just don't understand the word abusive. Trying to suggest that all my credits are invalid is again grossly abusive. I want nothing further to do with this dunderheaded Website, Goodbye!


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## MartinH.

Terence Thomas said:


> I am trying to figure out what I said to get such a vicus response. What did I say that ticked so many people off.



Hi Terence, welcome to the forum! It's a bit more "how" you say what you say that rubs people the wrong way I think. I bit of the "what" too, but I think the "how" is more important usually.
We've had a couple problems in the past with people that are either trolling or completely delusional. Please don't take this the wrong way, but your posts are ... somewhat closer to those trolls that we had issues with, than they are to the many many professionally successful composers that frequent this forum. That's why some people think you are in fact trolling, but I don't think you are. It's great if you're happy with your own work and don't care toooo much if others like it. But if you want to be commercially successful it's kind of a big deal whether or not others like your music too. And the way you present yourself and your own opinion of yourself is a big deal too. A bit humbleness is generally favored imho.

If you want to get the most out of this forum I recomment apologizing for starting the whole conversation off on the wrong foot, taking a step back, reading a lot of the very helpful threads all over this forum, getting to know the people that are taking time out of their day to try and help you on your journey in this thread, and then re-read the whole thread with your newfound knowledge. I hope by that time you'll know where things took the wrong turn and be able to start the conversation again, but with adjusted expectations and responses. 

Good luck!


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## Markrs

This might sound odd, but this thread reminds me how kind this forum is. A new person arrives posts about not getting attention in the film industry for his music and gets thoughtful and considered feedback. 

I don't know many forums where they would get that rather than being ignored. It is clear that Terrance sees feedback as an attack. That is a shame, but that is a choice we all make in how we receive feedback. To either learn from it, or decide that the feedback is not only wrong but an attack.


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## Markrs

I freely admit to being a beginner so you are welcome to ignore this advice. It is also counter to the advice that compose John Powell gives (who says never listen to soundtracks).

I advise watching some films and really listening to the soundtrack and what it is doing to support the story and the directors vision.

Maybe use cuetube or some of the scenes in films with no score it (most of Castaway is music free) and try and score to it.

Again as I am beginner you are free to ignore what I say. But the advice you have had from others is really worth listening to.


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## Terence Thomas

Markrs said:


> I freely admit to being a beginner so you are welcome to ignore this advice. It is also counter to the advice that compose John Powell gives (who says never listen to soundtracks).
> 
> I advise watching some films and really listening to the soundtrack and what it is doing to support the story and the directors vision.
> 
> Maybe use cuetube or some of the scenes in films with no score it (most of Castaway is music free) and try and score to it.
> 
> Again as a beginner you are free to ignore what I say. But the advice you have had from others is really worth listening to.


I am not a beginner, some years back I worked as an engineer for the film department of New York University and have work with film people for years. I have modified equipment and don engineering at Electric Lady studio in New York City.


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## ka00

Markrs said:


> This might sound odd, but this thread reminds me how kind this forum is. A new person arrives posts about not getting attention in the film industry for his music and gets thoughtful and considered feedback.


Yes, the current, abridged version of this thread is indeed as you describe.

Part of the disconnect between what we’re reading now and how Terence is reacting might have to do with the dozens of posts from him and others that I estimate were deleted.

It was a good call to delete them and stick with the constructive comments only, but it does present only part of the story to anyone reading the thread now. I do not envy the job of comment moderation on threads like this.


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## Mike Greene

ka00 said:


> ... might have to do with the dozens of posts from him and others that I estimate were deleted.


97 posts so far, actually. 

There's some good stuff in this thread from José and others, so whether or not Terence appreciates it, I'd like to keep those posts prominent, without being obscured by tit for tat bickering, popcorn jokes, and the ever-helpful _"Here's how you should moderate the forum"_ suggestions. That's why the heavy deletions.


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## Stiltzkin

I won't go into the other details of the thread, but most people here will have been in the same position you're in:
1. can make music
2. want to make music for film (not everyone here, but around half, most if you include games I'd say)

As a general rule, posting on a _music specific_ forum looking for editors, producers and directors would be the general mistake (just to clarify, those are your targets if you're looking to get connections). Remember you need to go where the _demand _is, sign yourself up to a film forum somewhere, start with some indie films, get a feel for writing to a scene, get a feel for the discussions that need to be had with directors (they have their own language, none of which is musical, if you start talking about actual music terminology with a director you're probably in a trouble).

Then from there you rinse and repeat. If you're going to send your music around, film editors are the ones you'll probably want to speak with first if you can't land a gig, as they can try out temping your music on scenes, if they like it, it will get used somewhere, even just as a temp track - which is a good, because it means things can slowly start.

This does mean you'll probably want your temp music to be diverse, just as a tip.


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## Kevin Fortin

It was good to learn that this thread was heavily pruned. Otherwise I might have been left with the impression that one or more people were just clowing around.


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## babylonwaves

Terence, do you realise that there are a lot of people in this thread who write music which sound a lot more production ready than what you present on sound cloud? Some are trying to help you in a really nice way. Try to step back a bit, you came for other peoples opinions I guess - after those 300 admissions. Chances are that you won't find a better place for advise.


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## MusiquedeReve

Mikro93 said:


> To whom it may concern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that people in the movie industry might be looking for other genres of music, overall. That being said, I am not in the movie industry, so this is maybe not very constructive.



You performed that piece at Lincoln Center? Congrats


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## Polkasound

Blakus said:


> I don’t know how to say this without it sounding rude, but I think you might have some work to do. I just checked your Soundcloud and the millions of plays and comments appear to be all from bots. If I were you I wouldn’t allow myself to find comfort/confidence from those faux numbers.


^^^ This

I'm truly sorry to rain on your moment in the sun, Terence, but those millions of plays and comments are from bots. They're all in "bot speak" which is generic commentary unspecific to any style of music or anything heard in a song. In fact, some of the same comments repeat in other tracks, but are posted by different bots.

And most of your followers are unfortunately also bots... they have no posted tracks (unless they're repost bots, in which case they have lots of reposted tracks), maybe a half-dozen followers, and yet they're following 500-1,000 other people.

No one is accusing you of anything nefarious here, because it's possible that a friend purchased these bots for you as a gift, or a competitor purchased them to damage your reputation. But it's important that you have an understanding of how widespread bots are on SoundCloud. If you don't, your claims of "9 million plays" are going to be your own undoing in this business.

I listened to your tracks that have the million+ plays, and I'm going to be blunt and to the point. I hear promising elements in those tracks, but nothing remotely close to the quality of a track that legitimately receives a million plays on SoundCloud. But don't take that the wrong way, because you (like me and most everyone else on VI-Control) are in the same boat as 99.99% of the SoundCloud membership — we're not world famous. Very few artists legitimately hit the 1,000,000 playcount.



Terence Thomas said:


> I am a great composer and successful, for I am able to transform what is in my mind to the recorded media. Weather anyone likes it or not is irrelevant.


It's not irrelevant at all. You can't be great or successful if people don't like your music.


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## MusiquedeReve

José Herring said:


> We are savvy composers





FlyingAndi said:


> Feedback should be taken as a chance to grow and improve. But people who don't know how to deal with feedback or people who just aren't prepared to receive feedback in that moment take it as a trigger to extend their claws and defend themselves. (This also happens if feedback is given in a rude way.)
> Sometimes it's hard to receive feedback and sometimes it takes time to grow.


I am not a savvy composer but, through my posting newbie questions here on VIC, I aspire to be such and have really appreciated the wealth of knowledge and feedback I have received on VIC -- now, I will admit that I do not always heed the advice I receive but, I always welcome it and take it into consideration

The key is knowing my own limitations and learning to move beyond them


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## dzilizzi

I have to say, there was at least one member here who has gotten film work after winning a scoring competition. I'm not a professional at this, but entering into some of these competitions that are reviewed by people that are filmmakers, seems like a good idea.


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## Terence Thomas

babylonwaves said:


> Terence, do you realise that there are a lot of people in this thread who write music which sound a lot more production ready than what you present on sound cloud? Some are trying to help you in a really nice way. Try to step back a bit, you came for other peoples opinions I guess - after those 300 admissions. Chances are that you won't find a better place for advise.


I am trying to figure out what advice you gave. I would never critique music by saying that it sounded like music from the seventies as if that was something bad. Films need music of a wide variety of moods and time frame which has nothing to do with anything. I am not sure what 300 admissions is.
This is all too confusing and represents some kind of communication problem that is insurmountable so I suggest we just go our separate ways, OK.


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## babylonwaves

Terence Thomas said:


> I am trying to figure out what advice you gave. I would never critique music by saying that it sounded like music from the seventies as if that was something bad. Films need music of a wide variety of moods and time frame which has nothing to do with anything. I am not sure what 300 admissions is.
> This is all too confusing and represents some kind of communication problem that is insurmountable so I suggest we just go our separate ways, OK.





Terence Thomas said:


> I am looking to make connections with the movie industry. Websites that promise to get you reviewed by motion picture producers have not followed through on over 300 well received submissions.


Just for the record, I was talking about those 300. I should have wrote submission though. My bad.


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## Terence Thomas

babylonwaves said:


> Just for the record, I was talking about those 300. I should have wrote submission though. My bad.


Thank You.


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## ka00

I found this to be a good and relevant video on the subject:


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## Kevin Fortin

Terence Thomas said:


> I am looking to make connections with the movie industry. Websites that promise to get you reviewed by motion picture producers have not followed through on over 300 well received submissions.


Are you still based in Boston? I wonder if you have any connections at Berklee. Maybe they could help make a few introductions.

The same goes for any vaguely industry-related or -tangential connections you might have in NYC -- or even Atlanta (Georgia has a lot of film and TV activity).

I'm a small-town guy but I imagine that for big-city people who have had any degree of success already, the degrees of separation to beneficial connections are probably in the low single-digits.

For background: I'm kind of a hermit, but the spider in my carport (who is also a hermit) seems to suggest that successful networking would be the key to further progress.


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## Terence Thomas

Kevin Fortin said:


> Are you still based in Boston? I wonder if you have any connections at Berklee. Maybe they could help make a few introductions.
> 
> The same goes for any vaguely industry-related or -tangential connections you might have in NYC -- or even Atlanta (Georgia has a lot of film and TV activity).
> 
> I'm a small-town guy but I imagine that for big-city people who have had any degree of success already, the degrees of separation to beneficial connections are probably in the low single-digits.
> 
> For background: I'm kind of a hermit, but the spider in my carport (who is also a hermit) seems to suggest that successful networking would be the key to further progress.


Dear Kevin: So far, You seem to be the only rational person I've encountered on this Website. Did some body tell you I am based in Boston? I am actually in Florida. The only Networking I have done turned our with me getting jobs for other people but never the reverse. Nice to know there is at least one sane person on this Website.


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## José Herring

Terence Thomas said:


> Films need music of a wide variety of moods and time frame which has nothing to do with anything.


Yes it does Terence but there is one constant. The competitive nature of music for media has driven the level of production quality to be of the highest imaginable. I for one never criticized your choice of music, but am trying to get across that the production quality of the music isn't professional enough which you seem to interpret as some sort of attack which is perplexing me slightly. From my perspective it's like telling somebody they need a paint job on their car. The car may be perfectly fine but people can't see it because of the chipped faded paint.

So you post a piano piece as having been performed at Lincoln center but then post a piece of music that is completely not a piano or recorded live or even played by a human but rather poorly programmed into a midi sequencer. Hmmmmm....that is not putting your best foot forward and ultimately your are just hurting yourself by not seeming to take the effort to at least record your piano piece with a real piano or at least a good sampled piano which by the way you can get for FREE... 

So ask yourself why would a producer who is looking for The Best possible production take you seriously after hearing that.

That last I'll say before hitting the ignore button on this thread is this. Since you seem to be a real sincere person and not a troll, this is a last ditch effort to get through to you. I've worked in film for 25 years now. I'm no big name but I've taken my lumps and then some and learned a lot. I'm still learning too but.....

I'd spend time trying to discover what it means to have music that is ready to be placed in a film, tv show ect... 

And if you think anybody here is being overly harsh, just wait should you get a gig, what an actual filmmaker will say about your music even if it is the best. When they're paying and they want great music for their film, they won't hold back to spare your feelings or buy into any delusions. They will gut you and fire you if they don't hear something great from the get go because there are so many others that can deliver that they will just find the next guy. You have just a few days to a week imo to prove to them that you're the guy before they get nervous and start looking at the other guy. The composers that really make it big spend more money and time and effort that most people will make in a lifetime in just having the best gear available to realize even the simplest of musical ideas. It's why the greats can make a solo oboe or a pencil tap on a desk sound like it belongs in a blockbuster. They have and know how to use and have people that can really produce great sounding music no matter if it's one note played on a slide whistle or 104 piece orchestra.

Yes film demands all different kinds of music, but there is one constant. It also demands high production quality. Spend a lot of time and effort on the production quality of your music.


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## Loïc D

My 2 cents : 175 tracks on SoundCloud is no-go as a composer.
Directors or agents or whatsoever will NEVER worry listening to it, and such a track count is counterproductive.

Keep your SoundCloud clean with your 10 best tracks, it should be portfolio that immediately sells your style & personality. And probably SoundCloud is not the best platform now.

Don’t care about views/hits count, no one cares about that.

What matters is making connections, not the music. But be ready to be ignored, criticized, backlashed, fired by people. That’s just business.
Festivals, competitions, film schools, fan communities,…

(For the record, I scored a video on YouTube with 6M views and no director ever called me for this)


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## OHjorth

José Herring said:


> There are a lot of scams in this industry and this may be one of them. I'm not sure because I've never used any website that promised to promote my music but knowing many filmmakers I doubt that they would even use such a service.
> 
> The best way to get scoring work is to make personal contact. Develop a relationship. Work on something, anything that will get some notice somewhere. Another way is to work with an already established composer getting coffee and taking the insults with grace. The latter is much harder but has made film composing legends. I actually regret not doing this.
> 
> At any rate what you don't want to do is throw your music out there randomly on some site hoping that some filmmaker comes along and loves what you do enough to hire you. Not saying it couldn't work but seems unlikely. Filmmakers already know 10 composers that they've already worked with and love and would more than likely go with somebody they know.
> 
> On the other hand, you may get lucky. No one way to get work. just seems like Soundcloud and submitting to websites that "promise" to get you heard seems like the least probable way to get work. In the years of me doing this and nearly 3 dozen films, documentaries, ect later, only once have I been contacted by a producer based on a website advert, and it didn't work out.
> 
> I don't know where you live but when I got my first films I lived in New York and was getting work based on just talking to filmmakers on the phone visiting their editing suites, post houses, ect. Mind you NY is a much more open place that's far more social than LA and when I tried that here I just got my ass chewed out repeatedly. It's a much more hostile environment perhaps because the people are much higher level than what was generally the indie Scene in NY. So in LA emails, and letters introducing yourself and inviting people to go to your website, getting invited to meetings, being sociable and remaining cool in spite of coming across characters is important. Knowing people, the good, the bad, the ugly and the drop dead gorgeous and not really being effected any way which I've noticed for some is really hard, but it's not like your marrying these people so I never understood why some people have a button on other kinds of people.
> 
> Your music is important but few if any will listen unless there's a compelling reason for them to do so. And those reasons will be past credits and if you don't have anything of note, your ability to talk to people.
> 
> These days there are millions of composer with internet access. Millions upon millions. Filmmakers are still pretty rare as the lifestyle is way more perioulous that composing is. I litterally know filmmakers that are serving prison time for financial fraud. So the lifespan of any given producer even after he makes it averages about 7 years in my estimation. Some make it a lot longer of course, but if you look at their most productive years it can be rather short.
> 
> That being said, getting work takes a lot more effort than hoping you get noticed. It really takes a connection with people that could use your music on an ongoing continual basis. I briefly have known over the years some very successful composers and you know what they all have in common. It isn't talent. Some are talented and some aren't. It isn't training. some are trained and some aren't. It isn't great music, that's subjective. They ALL are great salesmen. They can sell themselves to an almost shameful degree. Then they all can deliver. So the pitch comes first, then the follow through. Sell people that you can do great music, then give them great music that works for their project. Don't sell your music to them. Sell your ability to give them what they want and some of your past music might help the pitch but it isn't the pitch.
> 
> I'm rambling. It's one of those days for me.


"my ass chewed out". Seems this forum is good for learning new english aswell as music prod.  Thanks for the high info-density post, and the laugh!


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