# "Pirates-vs-Sinbad" - New mp3 from Frederick!



## Frederick Russ (Nov 21, 2006)

Okay - its been awhile since I posted any of my stuff. I've been getting into my orchestration studies, coupling EIS training with it and came up with this:

http://www.vi-control.com/Frederick_Russ/Pirates-vs-Sinbad-Fantasy3.mp3 (http://www.vi-control.com/Frederick_Rus ... ntasy3.mp3)

I've added quite a bit since its inception. The last part is classic voice leading I learned from EIS. That said, it has been great having a tutor/mentor to help improve one's writing chops - in fact I believe its imperative. Therefore thanks goes out always to Craig Sharmat for introducing me to EIS, thanks also to Spud Murphy (may he rest in peace) for writing the course, and also to the great ears and talent I've met on this forum. 

As always, like before, let me know what you all think - thanks!
_____________
For this piece I used:

*Strings*
Custom Strings - Violins (Section & Divisi), Cellos
VSL (Violas)
EWQLSO (Basses)
*Brass*
Custom Brass - Trumpets, Horns, Trombones
Project SAM Solo Trumpet
EWQLSO Tuba
*Woodwinds*
VSL (Solo Winds)
*Percussion*
Project SAM True Strike (Gran Casa, Timpani, Snare)
VSL (Cymbal Rolls, Glockenspiel, Celesta)
East West StormDrum
EWQLSO (Timpani)
*Choirs*
Voices of the Apocalypse


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## ComposerDude (Nov 21, 2006)

Wow - very nice work! Also, excellent blending of all those libs.

-Peter


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## JBacal (Nov 21, 2006)

Well done and some very nice orchestration -- full and theatrical.

There's a taste of a theme in the trumpets in the middle of the piece, but I would have liked to hear some futher development of a theme. However, I am biased towards melody driven compositions so take this comment with a huge grain of salt.

Best,
Jay


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks Peter & Jay! Yeah I like melody-driven pieces too - this started out as an exercise to examine techniques and well, expanded. Your comments are very appreciated.


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## Craig Sharmat (Nov 21, 2006)

Hey Frederick,

Nice to give to props to everyone but in the end there is only one guy writing the piece. Some really nice stuff in there, and I particularly like the back half.

I felt the piece went in too many places, so continuity was neve rreally established except in the back half. I like the theme, though i felt it was a little notey. You could have said the same thing by using ellision :wink: .

I also think developing the melody is a good idea, and sometimes by throwing it around to different instruments can be interesting. Also often leads to counterpoint.


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## choc0thrax (Nov 21, 2006)

Good stuff Fred.


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks guys! The reason I post pieces occasionally is sometimes I get too close to a piece - what may be missing is very obvious to others. Excellent suggestion on melodic counterpoint. This is my first dive into this particular genre so whatever help I can get, I'll take.


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## choc0thrax (Nov 21, 2006)

BTW I think there's some clipping around the middle of the piece.


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks - I'll check it. :smile:


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## ComposerDude (Nov 21, 2006)

Now that I got a chance to listen again (busy day), wanted to mention nice modulation around 1:00. Also noticed the high frequencies are emphasized in the mix -- what postprocessing are you using?


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks! Yeah I tried PSP Vintage Warmer. I was listening to earlier mixes and thought it needed more clarity and volume. To find a happy medium I'll probably remix it again based on some of the responses.


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## Chrislight (Nov 22, 2006)

Well, I love the middle of this piece where it swells up (around 0:35). I also love the ending and the beginning is really nice too.  Guess I'm saying I love this piece! :lol: Actually, I think it's your best to date - thanks for sharing it!


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## SvK (Nov 22, 2006)

Nice....work ....especially...the early forboding string appreggios....i love those.....

Then ...I am partial to dark, mighty and forboding AND that's your dark, mighty forboding bit 

very good.

SvK


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## Alex W (Nov 22, 2006)

Nice work Fred. Great work blending all those libraries. Nice sense of excitement and energy, very well captured in your writing. If anything, I'd like to hear a more obvious recurring theme, something repeated enough so that it gets hammered into my head.

The custom strings sound excellent, especially believable around 0:18. Did you use any secret tricks to sequence this part?


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## SvK (Nov 22, 2006)

Fred,

What Alex said........at 0.18....That is the best bit what is happening their musically?

.....it's not parallel Tritones is it? Ascending in mminor thirds? 2 notes at a time right? not 3?...Octatonian? (petrushka?)

That part has magic...It's very Herrmann.......I almost feel as though the Wind bit after....is to "sweet".....nice....


BTW: I just took your Mp3 into Logic and am playing the bit back an Octave lower and at 1/2 speed.......  so I can figure this sh#t out......

(I'm really jealous of that 0.18 bit)

SvK


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 22, 2006)

Thanks. Actually I'm using custom trills which I timed in the sequence to give a triplet feel while applying different triads formations.


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## Mike Greene (Nov 22, 2006)

I love it! Really great writing and an outstanding mock-up. 

It is a lot of notes, but it doesn't bother me. It makes for an "edge of your seat" feel.

I believed all the samples (usual disclaimer than I'm no orchstral expert.) The trumpets are especially impressive (I rarely believe those.)

Great piece!


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## sbkp (Nov 22, 2006)

Really nice, Frederick. A lot of variety and some clever moves.


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 22, 2006)

Hey Mike, Stefan - thanks! I've been coupling EIS with Score Study. I like the combination. Now I got to get back to EIS homework - its been due for some time now...


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## sbkp (Nov 22, 2006)

Get on it, bro! Book 3 awaits!


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## choir (Nov 23, 2006)

Frederic it sounds good, nice job but i think there are works to be done on the mixing.
Other than that it's very nice...


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 24, 2006)

Heh - rebuke well taken Stefan! Its been a crap-shoot between work, EIS and Pro Orchestration. But EIS is probably the quickest way to get where I'm wanting to go.

Thanks choir. Yeah I'm planning to remix, probably this weekend.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 24, 2006)

Hey Fred, I enjoyed the piece as well. 
I am in agreement with most comments.
My additional comment: forget about Vintage Warmer!
I have had that VST for ages now and it just isn't suited for orchestral mixes.
If you replace it with a more appropriate compressor you will get some of the warmth back into your mix...

Good job!


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## SvK (Nov 27, 2006)

Frederick......

I feel with every part of my being that removing the bassoon/triangle section prior to The Heroic Theme....will render this an extremely cohesive cue.....

I feel a conflicting / emotional jar with the "to playful lite section of bassoons / triangle"

I actually opened your piece in Logic and cut that section out....and to my ears it was a great improvement of an already great cue...

my 2 cents,


SvK


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 27, 2006)

Thanks for the suggests! Yeah I'm gonna be dumping vintage warmer out the nearest hi-rise building soon. 

And you're probably right SvK - occasionally I've found that to get to the best parts I've learned to just "go with it", kind of like musical brainstorming in a way. If you like improvising on piano, sax or guitar, sometimes you can reach pure gold at times as long as you can endure the crappyness in between those moments. Later I do usually end up cutting out parts that were less cohesive to the overall gist of the message that I wanted to convey musically. This is essentially my first journey into this particular style so I left it as is. Thanks for the observation though!


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## José Herring (Nov 27, 2006)

I listen to this piece several days ago. Since then I wanted to listen again, but I've been out of town and nowhere near a highspeed connection so I'm roughin' it on my father in law's dial up connected to a 64meg ram P3. Whew! talk about a test in patience.

Well I like the piece very much. I go back and forth between cetain sections. Certain things clearly sound "inspired" and others truly sound like an etude. I wish I had the piece so I could point certain things out but I think most others have done a good job of doing that.

I find that your mockup ability is getting very professional. I'd try listening to a few more professional orchestras and going to more orchestral concerts to get a true feel for how free and expressive real orchestras can get. For me it's the hardest part of any mockup. I've often thought of doing tap tempos to get more of a live feel going but haven't experimented with it yet.

As far as composing you've also come very far since I've first heard your pieces. At this point I don't know where you are in your EIS studies. Make what ever technique you're studying your own. Find what you agree with and what fits you and perfect that to such a degree that nobody can tell that you're using any technique.

I'll give it a better listen and be more precise as soon as I get back to my studio.

Overall a very good piece. Though there's more of your own personality that needs to come through more often because when it does come through I'm sold.

Jose


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## Lex (Nov 28, 2006)

sweet!

Alex


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 28, 2006)

Thanks guys for the listens and comments! Much appreciated.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 29, 2006)

Fred,

Excellent piece! I love the fullness in your sound. Good woodwind and brass work as well. 

The strings I felt were a bit repetitive, could have used more articulation variation, imho. 

My main criticism is that there are far too many chord changes, especially in the last part. The emotion of the first part is lost. 

The sound is muddy, but it could be your use of VW. I'd try adding a little less reverb and using only a limiter at 3 or 4dB.

Post more man!


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