# Update: Storming the Gates (Project Title) - Complete Version



## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 26, 2017)

Hi my friends,

And another orchestral piece which I am actually working on, so far I am at 2 minutes here.
The Piano Map is not entirely sketched out, but most parts are already recorded.
As the Spitfire Libraries are very new too me, I spent a lot of time trying to get familiar with them and I have pure fun working with them.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 26, 2017)

The soundcloud file in the post isn't showing up for me, so I went to the-tachyon-blaster-version-iii on the site and ended up smiling very wide! Your piece plays out dynamically a bit like classic John Williams (that's meant as a compliment), and you seem to have mixed it very well. If this is mostly Albion One, then it's some of the best use of it I've heard; I know people would have definitely been fooled into thinking this is a real orchestra.

This piece was a LOT of fun to listen to during my morning coffee


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 26, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> The soundcloud file in the post isn't showing up for me, so I went to the-tachyon-blaster-version-iii on the site and ended up smiling very wide! Your piece plays out dynamically a bit like classic John Williams (that's meant as a compliment), and you seem to have mixed it very well. If this is mostly Albion One, then it's some of the best use of it I've heard; I know people would have definitely been fooled into thinking this is a real orchestra.
> 
> This piece was a LOT of fun to listen to during my morning coffee



I don´t know what that bug is actually and why it is not showing up, but it doesn´t do that here as well. On Sc it seems to work..It seems actually a general problem with other tracks here also..

I didn´t use any Albion one, only Spitfire Orchestra here.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 26, 2017)

I found Storming the Gates! I really like your use of brass, is this the Spitfire Orchestra here as well?

Once again, the flourishes and general tone bring to mind the gargantuan sound of Williams' best. You captured that HUGE, somehow magical sound.

One of the things that I thought was interesting was the lack of bells and/or chimes during the beginning flourish, which separates you from many of the better known "huge orchestra" types. Perhaps a show of individuality.

In any event, I really liked both tracks!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 26, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> I found Storming the Gates! I really like your use of brass, is this the Spitfire Orchestra here as well?
> 
> Once again, the flourishes and general tone bring to mind the gargantuan sound of Williams' best. You captured that HUGE, somehow magical sound.
> 
> ...



I am very carefully with those Glockenspiel, Chimes, and Celesta sound. Actually, yes they can bring some color to those flourishes. Maybe I should try that out for the the first flourishment. Celesta combined with a harp or something. Let´s see. 
Yes, the Sound is Huge.. with that Spitfire Sound here..But you need really some ram..in your pc..


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 26, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I
> Yes, the Sound is Huge.. with that Spitfire Sound here..But you need really some ram..in your pc..



You said it!

The chimes/bells/glockenspiel thing was noticeably missing from "Storming", but as I mentioned I just assumed it was you left them out because you were distancing yourself from comparisons to other composers.


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## Musicam (Jan 26, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hi my friends,
> 
> And another orchestral piece which I am actually working on, so far I am at 2 minutes here.
> The Piano Map is not entirely sketched out, but most parts are already recorded.
> ...




All Masse? GREAT!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 26, 2017)

Musicam said:


> All Masse? GREAT!



Hm, no. Spitfire Orchestra, no Masse Patches.


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## Musicam (Jan 26, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hm, no. Spitfire Orchestra, no Masse Patches.



Orchestra is Simphonic Strings? I am interesting in the revern, only mics of Spitfire?


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## angeruroth (Jan 26, 2017)

Wow! Love this piece. Very nice work Alexander. If I hear this while watching a movie I wouldn't think its not real


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## erica-grace (Jan 26, 2017)

Very nice!!! 

You should send this to Mike Verta the next time he has a class - I would love to see what he has to say about it. And I am sure so would you!


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## Iskra (Jan 26, 2017)

Great piece Alexander, congrats! Just listened with headphones, so waiting to get home to listen to it properly!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 27, 2017)

erica-grace said:


> Very nice!!!
> 
> You should send this to Mike Verta the next time he has a class - I would love to see what he has to say about it. And I am sure so would you!



No good idea.. or lets say in general it is good, but not at that stage right now..the piece is still in development and has a lot of flaws regarding structure, motific development, counterpoint and some orchestrational miss chops I discovered during the last 2 days. Also I need to stretch certain things out, it feels a bit rushed for my taste. So at that stage right now this piece is a good starting point but needs more refinement. My very good friend Zac told me, that he likes the piece, but it needs to breath more, and he is totally damn right with that. Also my orchestrations are very brass focoussed which can be cool, but also tiring after a while. Believe me I am often my own biggest critic..


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 27, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> No good idea.. or lets say in general it is good, but not at that stage right now..the piece is still in development and has a lot of flaws regarding structure, motific development, counterpoint and some orchestrational miss chops I discovered during the last 2 days. Also I need to stretch certain things out, it feels a bit rushed for my taste. So at that stage right now this piece is a good starting point but needs more refinement. My very good friend Zac told me, that he likes the piece, but it needs to breath more, and he is totally damn right with that. Also my orchestrations are very brass focoussed which can be cool, but also tiring after a while. Believe me I am often my own biggest critic..



Well, there's a lot of good in being your own biggest critic. I can hear where you might polish things up a bit, but I personally think you have an excellent base, so please don't overthink it. And the brass isn't so present that it gets tiring (though the fact that you're conscious of that proclivity of brass instruments shows you've been studying the right materials).

Hey, I think you have something really good going on in the tracks I heard, including "Storming...", so please be aware of over-editing/second-guessing yourself. I've been guilty of that way too many times, and kick myself in hindsight over it. In fact, I probably berate myself over overthinking things more than underthinking them. Either extreme, as you know, is a bad thing in creative endeavors.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 27, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Well, there's a lot of good in being your own biggest critic. I can hear where you might polish things up a bit, but I personally think you have an excellent base, so please don't overthink it. And the brass isn't so present that it gets tiring (though the fact that you're conscious of that proclivity of brass instruments shows you've been studying the right materials).
> 
> Hey, I think you have something really good going on in the tracks I heard, including "Storming...", so please be aware of over-editing/second-guessing yourself. I've been guilty of that way too many times, and kick myself in hindsight over it. In fact, I probably berate myself over overthinking things more than underthinking them. Either extreme, as you know, is a bad thing in creative endeavors.



Thank you for your suggestions. Yes definitely agreed. it is always a fine line..I try to handle those readjustments with care. Still thinking about if there is a development of the initial motivic idea, but time will tell. Actually I updated the track and replaced the track.
I removed and reworked some of the voicings removed some little things, also tried to improve the message in the beginning, that it is a bit clearer statemen, ecspecially with the counterpoint filling lines..
Also mixwise I tamed the mid brass frequencies slightly.


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## ctsai89 (Jan 27, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hi my friends,
> 
> And another orchestral piece which I am actually working on, so far I am at 2 minutes here.
> The Piano Map is not entirely sketched out, but most parts are already recorded.
> As the Spitfire Libraries are very new too me, I spent a lot of time trying to get familiar with them and I have pure fun working with them.




@AlexanderSchiborr demonstrating how wrong it is to say that spitfire does not have the hollywood sound! lol.


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## ctsai89 (Jan 27, 2017)

by the way @AlexanderSchiborr 

just a quesiton, how did you get violins's repeated 16th notes (0:43) to sound so quantized? i noticed spitfire's spiccato's always uneven. Did you turn off the round robbins?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 27, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> by the way @AlexanderSchiborr
> 
> just a quesiton, how did you get violins's repeated 16th notes (0:43) to sound so quantized? i noticed spitfire's spiccato's always uneven. Did you turn off the round robbins?



I wasn´t aware of that the spiccatos are so uneven..I don´t quantize in my tracks. I try to perform every line. Sure sometimes I need to move some notes around, but barely.


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## ctsai89 (Jan 27, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I wasn´t aware of that the spiccatos are so uneven..I don´t quantize in my tracks. I try to perform every line. Sure sometimes I need to move some notes around, but barely.



so i tried those exact notes you did in the same tempo with spiccato and found them to be still a bit uneven. But as an accompaniment section, it should sound fine.

in the end.. maybe most spitfire users who aren't satisfied with the spiccato were overreacting (myself included).

spitfire really should hire you to do their demoes. lol.


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## erica-grace (Jan 27, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> No good idea.. or lets say in general it is good, but not at that stage right now..the piece is still in development and has a lot of flaws regarding structure, motific development, counterpoint and some orchestrational miss chops I discovered during the last 2 days. Also I need to stretch certain things out, it feels a bit rushed for my taste. So at that stage right now this piece is a good starting point but needs more refinement.



Its fine for you to fell that way, but if you let Mike critique it, you will learn more from listening to him than working out the piece on your own.



AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Believe me I am often my own biggest critic..



Believe me Mike will be a *bigger *critic!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 28, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> so i tried those exact notes you did in the same tempo with spiccato and found them to be still a bit uneven. But as an accompaniment section, it should sound fine.
> 
> in the end.. maybe most spitfire users who aren't satisfied with the spiccato were overreacting (myself included).
> 
> spitfire really should hire you to do their demoes. lol.



You know the thing is actually just not to use only spiccato articulations...I go in some situations not by what the developer tells me to do, but I want to have and the sound. In this case I used a mix of different articulations, also spicc, but measured trems.


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## novaburst (Jan 28, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hi my friends,
> 
> And another orchestral piece which I am actually working on, so far I am at 2 minutes here.
> The Piano Map is not entirely sketched out, but most parts are already recorded.
> As the Spitfire Libraries are very new too me, I spent a lot of time trying to get familiar with them and I have pure fun working with them.




Nice work @AlexanderSchiborr


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 28, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Nice work @AlexanderSchiborr


Cool that you like it


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## thov72 (Jan 28, 2017)

Definitely a piece worth listening to, Alexander ... Hope to hear/read your name more often in movies!!! 
Great work. And I am very glad you left out the Glockenspiel, Chimes, and Celesta ..... they are way overused in this sort of music.


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## ctsai89 (Jan 28, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> You know the thing is actually just not to use only spiccato articulations...I go in some situations not by what the developer tells me to do, but I want to have and the sound. In this case I used a mix of different articulations, also spicc, but measured trems.



i actually did suspect it was the measured tremoloes.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 28, 2017)

thov72 said:


> Definitely a piece worth listening to, Alexander ... Hope to hear/read your name more often in movies!!!
> Great work. And I am very glad you left out the Glockenspiel, Chimes, and Celesta ..... they are way overused in this sort of music.



Thanks for the words.
I revised the B Section at 18 Seconds etc, I felt this was not a development, but more of a repetition of the same cadendial thing, hopefully better now (update it). At very low dynamics, it is not easy to let legato lines flow somehow always the same with samples.


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## ctsai89 (Jan 28, 2017)

@AlexanderSchiborr 

i was wondering, how do you mix your a6 brass patches relative to solo and a2 patches?

I noticed right out of the box, the a6 is volumed softer than solos, not sure if that's actually intended by spitfire or accident. Your thoughts?


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## Architekton (Jan 28, 2017)

How much RAM did this song take?


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## ctsai89 (Jan 28, 2017)

Architekton said:


> How much RAM did this song take?



i would guess around 60+ gig. He's using 2 mics for each instruments


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Jan 28, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> i would guess around 60+ gig. He's using 2 mics for each instruments



That's pretty accurate. 

From my own experience loading every instrument & patch in the Spitfire Symphonic range takes 25-28GB per mic position. Preload buffer size will of course affect the exact figure.


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## Architekton (Jan 28, 2017)

I guess mine 32gb DDR4 wont be up to the task...lol...


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 29, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr
> 
> i was wondering, how do you mix your a6 brass patches relative to solo and a2 patches?
> 
> I noticed right out of the box, the a6 is volumed softer than solos, not sure if that's actually intended by spitfire or accident. Your thoughts?



I noticed similiar things, but not only that, also it seems that the smaller patches are recorded with more "body", so by achieving the same sound for chords or other situations you need to apply a bit of corrective eq. Also I noticed that they seem to sound a little drier, or lets say, that from my impression the is it that tree mics are having a more prominent closer sound. Yeah you need adjust the levels then a bit.



Architekton said:


> How much RAM did this song take?



Actually the template is around 32-33 Gigabyte small / big.

And sometimes I am using close micings, it depends on the situations. I tend to add on soaring legato lines a bit of the close micings so that the lines get a bit more of defintion.

Regarding the Spitfire Demo writing: According to what I know is that they prominently feature people who are more involved in their company or long history customers.



thov72 said:


> Definitely a piece worth listening to, Alexander ... Hope to hear/read your name more often in movies!!!
> Great work. And I am very glad you left out the Glockenspiel, Chimes, and Celesta ..... they are way overused in this sort of music.



Thank you, much appreciated.


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## ctsai89 (Jan 29, 2017)

@AlexanderSchiborr So the problem is with the solo instruments sounding too loud but the a6 should remain as it is? or is it the other way around?

edit: i think it's the a6 trumpets/horns' that's missing about 6 decibels in volume. Because when i replace my trumpet a1 parts with the a6 and play them in divisi during my jupiter mockup at the anthem section where the trumpets play forte/fortissmo, the a6 can barely be heard but the solo trumpets can be heard, the chris hein that's matched to it can also be heard very clearly and nicely.


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## NoamL (Jan 29, 2017)

As a composer I like this, but I'm skeptical that it "works" for ordinary people. It has the same pros and cons as your other pieces you've posted recently. On the pro side, your influences are clear and honest, your orchestrational sense is good especially in terms of creating variety and drama, I think your programming is generally quite good too. And some of the themes and bits here are catchy! On the con side, the timing is very sloppy (much more than a professional orchestra would play) and creates a "keyboardy" quality. And the structure is kind of like you have all these great story moments but they don't add up to a tale - it needs to be more focused on one thing and developing it cleanly in a way that really leads the listener. I think this is a case of "Composer Clarity" - Mike talks about this alot - where you spend so long on a piece it makes sense to you in ways that don't work for a first-time listener.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 29, 2017)

NoamL said:


> where you spend so long on a piece it makes sense to you in ways that don't work for a first-time listener.



Good post, but on that last...sometimes (at least in my bungling experience), that leads to pieces that are freshly rewarding with every listen. And those are often the best (Hammerklavier's slow movement, Der Ring Des Nibelungen).


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## ctsai89 (Jan 29, 2017)

NoamL said:


> As a composer I like this, but I'm skeptical that it "works" for ordinary people. It has the same pros and cons as your other pieces you've posted recently. On the pro side, your influences are clear and honest, your orchestrational sense is good especially in terms of creating variety and drama, I think your programming is generally quite good too. And some of the themes and bits here are catchy! On the con side, the timing is very sloppy (much more than a professional orchestra would play) and creates a "keyboardy" quality. And the structure is kind of like you have all these great story moments but they don't add up to a tale - it needs to be more focused on one thing and developing it cleanly in a way that really leads the listener. I think this is a case of "Composer Clarity" - Mike talks about this alot - where you spend so long on a piece it makes sense to you in ways that don't work for a first-time listener.



For some reason, nothing from spitfire ever really sounded keyboardy or synthy to me. The worst it has ever been was it sounding like it hasn't been rehearsed and players are sight reading, and that the players are middle school kids.

Plenty (or all) of demoes on Vsl's site where the slurs and fast staccato have extra perfect timing, are synthy to my ears. I know someone is going to tell me cuz it's recorded dry but I doubt that's what really causes it. There's always something in Vsl that makes it sounds obviously like a midi-mockup


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 29, 2017)

NoamL said:


> As a composer I like this, but I'm skeptical that it "works" for ordinary people. It has the same pros and cons as your other pieces you've posted recently. On the pro side, your influences are clear and honest, your orchestrational sense is good especially in terms of creating variety and drama, I think your programming is generally quite good too. And some of the themes and bits here are catchy! On the con side, the timing is very sloppy (much more than a professional orchestra would play) and creates a "keyboardy" quality. And the structure is kind of like you have all these great story moments but they don't add up to a tale - it needs to be more focused on one thing and developing it cleanly in a way that really leads the listener. I think this is a case of "Composer Clarity" - Mike talks about this alot - where you spend so long on a piece it makes sense to you in ways that don't work for a first-time listener.



Hi Noam, 
Thanks for the Comment. It would help me: Are there specific parts where you think it sounds sloppy or "keyboardy". 
To your structural thing: Partially agreed, or most. But what is long? I mean..I spent for the first piano draft 2-3 sessions of a few hours. I am the other way around at least here and think: Too many composers don´t ever take time to sketch out an idea so that they write even a melody which is compeling and has a bit of drama. Sure I know there are strucural issues in my piece..completely agreed in that point. (which I pointed out in another post before, but good to hear that I am not alone.)


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## novaburst (Jan 30, 2017)

NoamL said:


> you spend so long on a piece it makes sense to you in ways that don't work for a first-time listener.



@NoamL first let me truly truly say that I am not sticking up for @AlexanderSchiborr the guy has a lot of experience and can stick up for him self.

I don't quite get it when you say there is no story, ok the opening gave the sense of the story starting at a dramatic, I have heard these openings many times in movies and in other pieces part but it did continue the adventure from there and never lost its way, the end was a cliff hanger yes but that was still ok, and gave the sense of a new part coming.

But it was one direction and to me easy to follow because of your comment I went back and listened two more times and each time was the same giving a forward motion and an adventure type Journey.

the next thing I would like to point out is it gave a feel and sense of familiarisation, the piece did not get lost. 

I could easily fit it in a movie part.

only thing I would say is where the low end but that's just the way I like to hear pieces with low end with some definition, the booms and the bllrrrrrrums. and oummms


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 31, 2017)

Hi Guys,
I have revised some sections in the track and tried to better the flow and also I rearranged some voicings and orchestrations, also created new bars after the Cliffhanger. In my humble opinion, I surerly tried to create a motif which I carry throughout the whole track, by any means, I am no Mike Verta, of course he is doing such things for almost 30 years, better don´t ask me how long I am doing that. :D But there is in my humble opinion a significant improvement from what I see comparing this to my orchestral works from 2013. But yeah the learning curve for such writing is very very steep and it takes long ass time to master it...

Anyways here is the update:


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## novaburst (Jan 31, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hi Guys,
> I have revised some sections in the track and tried to better the flow and also I rearranged some voicings and orchestrations, also created new bars after the Cliffhanger. In my humble opinion, I surerly tried to create a motif which I carry throughout the whole track, by any means, I am no Mike Verta, of course he is doing such things for almost 30 years, better don´t ask me how long I am doing that. :D But there is in my humble opinion a significant improvement from what I see comparing this to my orchestral works from 2013. But yeah the learning curve for such writing is very very steep and it takes long ass time to master it...
> 
> Anyways here is the update:




Nice one again @AlexanderSchiborr the low end can really feel it now really nice composing, mixing, 

And big shout for sharing your skill and work on the furom feel very honoured.

.......novaburst


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 31, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Nice one again @AlexanderSchiborr the low end can really feel it now really nice composing, mixing,
> 
> And big shout for sharing your skill and work on the furom feel very honoured.
> 
> .......novaburst



Thank you very much for the kind words. You guys here help and helped me also a lot. 

Before I forget, here is the "out of the box" brutal honest untouched sound, probably for anyone who is thinking or considering of investing in the spitfire sound (that´s not advertizing, never received any free products from them - why should I): 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xkxhkayty...Storming_the_Gates_V12_ou_of_the_box.mp3?dl=0


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 31, 2017)

ji eff said:


> (commenting on V12)
> 
> Holy moly, that mix sounds cohesive.. Some real intricate writing here.
> 
> ...



Yes, there are 2 versions, the out of the box of more the honest and just pure soundversion whilst the other one is the more lets say in your face one. But I agree on a personal level I prefer certain things also in the boxed version. Maybe a mix of both could be interesting, and thank you a lot to the detailed briefing. After my regular soundtrack work tomorrow I will find more time continue working on that piece and I will definitely consider your ideas and let them flow into the track. So thanks a lot for that.
Regarding Spitfire Audio: *To be honest I wrote them a mail a couple of weeks ago and they replied that most of their tracks which they feature were "created internally" there*. So that was what they said. I am not sure, maybe that was the polite way to tell me that my stuff doesn´t match their needs or taste, I don´t know. It was the Tachyon Blaster Track (on my sc as well) which I sended to them, also done purerly with Spifire Orchestra.


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## ctsai89 (Jan 31, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Yes, there are 2 versions, the out of the box of more the honest and just pure soundversion whilst the other one is the more lets say in your face one. But I agree on a personal level I prefer certain things also in the boxed version. Maybe a mix of both could be interesting, and thank you a lot to the detailed briefing. After my regular soundtrack work tomorrow I will find more time continue working on that piece and I will definitely consider your ideas and let them flow into the track. So thanks a lot for that.
> Regarding Spitfire Audio: *To be honest I wrote them a mail a couple of weeks ago and they replied that most of their tracks which they feature were "created internally" there*. So that was what they said. I am not sure, maybe that was the polite way to tell me that my stuff doesn´t match their needs or taste, I don´t know. It was the Tachyon Blaster Track (on my sc as well) which I sended to them, also done purerly with Spifire Orchestra.



I think the people that write their demoes are skilled christian and paul's friends and they're pretty exclusive about it. pretty sure tha'ts what they meant by created internally lol. British English always appears to be subtle to me.


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## novaburst (Jan 31, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Thank you very much for the kind words. You guys here help and helped me also a lot.
> 
> Before I forget, here is the "out of the box" brutal honest untouched sound, probably for anyone who is thinking or considering of investing in the spitfire sound (that´s not advertizing, never received any free products from them - why should I):
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xkxhkayty...Storming_the_Gates_V12_ou_of_the_box.mp3?dl=0



Spitfire really does sound nice, for some thing bare bones this still has a great sound and tone to it, it kind of matches your work, or is it that you can make any library sound good.

If your feeling natural with this library i would encourage you to have the spitfire as your go to library.


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## ctsai89 (Jan 31, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Spitfire really does sound nice, for some thing bare bones this still has a great sound and tone to it, it kind of matches your work, or is it that you can make any library sound good.
> 
> If your feeling natural with this library i would encourage you to have the spitfire as your go to library.



there's no one in this world that can make "any" library sound good.

It's kind of a cliche thing to say at least in the educational realm. The people that teach MIDI classes alway say "oh it doesn't matter what libraries you own" but i really disagree with it.

No matter what there's always going to be libraries out there where as no matter what you do, you just can't make it sound as realistic as spitfire easily can.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 1, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Spitfire really does sound nice, for some thing bare bones this still has a great sound and tone to it, it kind of matches your work, or is it that you can make any library sound good.
> 
> If your feeling natural with this library i would encourage you to have the spitfire as your go to library.



Working with other libraries I say the following: You can achieve a very good sound with a lot of the recent libraries because the recent releases are all on a top notch level. Even the old Hollywood Strings, and Brass is still very strong. I guess in my case I pay a lot of attention in the voicings and orchestrations I do. I try to make them safe, so that they need not that much postprocessing. I have the philosophy anyways that good orchestrations don´t need much tweaks, they should sound good out of the box. When I step into a problem, lets say there is a section which sounds a bit muddy. So you can do both things: Notch out certain frequencies OR you go and check your orchestrations and dynamic devices. Most often when I have such a problem, it is not because the samples are bad, but because my orchestration is either too thick, or just the voicings are not optimal. So then I change there first the things, and in 95% of the cases it sounds better afterwards.


ctsai89 said:


> there's no one in this world that can make "any" library sound good.
> 
> It's kind of a cliche thing to say at least in the educational realm. The people that teach MIDI classes alway say "oh it doesn't matter what libraries you own" but i really disagree with it.
> 
> No matter what there's always going to be libraries out there where as no matter what you do, you just can't make it sound as realistic as spitfire easily can.



I agree to a certain extent. Sure that an excellent recorded and coded library will give you _a chance_ to make something great out of it. But one thing I would like to say here: It is not that spitfire sounds "easily" just realistic out of the box. It took me a lot of thoughts and tweakings into that rendering to assemble that sound.

In the end: It is not the library which makes the sound great, it is the user behind. And the excellent library is off course a bonus to achieve sonically great sounds.

Having said that: There are pieces I heard which are already 5-6 years old which sound often better then a lof of rendering I heard from people using the latest libraries. Those pieces were made with old first versions of cinebrass or even the old symphobia, or the first versions from Hollywood Strings, brass. (which is btw still up to date).
In my opinion people do overrrate the power of the libraries. And this leads also to a dilemma: There are people who buy and waste so much money on new libraries in order to hope that this new libraries hopefully give them the sound what they don´t acchieve by using their existing samplers. The truth (just for me) is, that their renderings will not sound better because they often show deficits which are a way beyond that a library will fix it:
- basic orchestration and balancing voicings(too many thirds doubling, muddy close voicings in the lower registers (you can do close voicings in the lower registers, but you have to know how, doubling too many of the same voices etc.)
- knowing their library not really good (what patches are effective for what kind of situation, how you can combine them , articulations philosophy meant by the developer, but what else can you do with it)
- what is possible with a live orchestra and not? (E.g. is it possible to play pizzicato whilst the whole brass section is blasting on triple forte?
- Instruments characteristics (How does they sound in what range and how their sonic quality behave in regards of the dynamic device, e.g. do they know how a bass trombone does sound in the upper registers on mezzo piano and is it good to combine it with a french horn? Creates this a homogenous fuller timbre or is it just a new color?)
- What is an "idiomatic typical" writing for classic film soundtrack?



Many of those things I believe people are not really aware of and don´t put enough thought and time into it. And then comes that "complaining thing": They find issues in their libraries and start to declare those little imperfections as major faults so that they can´t work with such libraries. I don´t know maybe it is a psychologial protection mechanism and probably I exegerate a little here, but I saw comments here and there critizising libraries, where I never felt that this is really a problem that much so that you have stop working with your library.

Or what do you think?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 6, 2017)

Hej Guys,
Was a bit busy the last days, but here is the whole finished piece now! Took me 16 session to do, and probably I will now model some details here and there, but here we go :D!!


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## novaburst (Feb 7, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hej Guys,
> Was a bit busy the last days, but here is the whole finished piece now! Took me 16 session to do, and probably I will now model some details here and there, but here we go :D!!




@AlexanderSchiborr a standing apluase to you.

I think the word is well and truly excicuted.,
Big thumbs to the motif on the flutter trumpets,

The piece was a killer, and a slam dunk big smile.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 7, 2017)

novaburst said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr a standing apluase to you.
> 
> I think the word is well and truly excicuted.,
> Big thumbs to the motif on the flutter trumpets,
> ...



Thanks Novaburst, much appreciated. !

(PS: Where are the flutter Tongue Trumpets? :D I didn´t use any :D)


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## novaburst (Feb 7, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> PS: Where are the flutter Tongue Trumpets? :D I didn´t use any :D)



Haha that's me, at about 1:54 you played a very nice variation of your 1st part but you used what I think is flutter toung and it sounds like a trumpet being used  I think it's a motif, but can't wait to be corrected


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## dan1 (Feb 24, 2017)

it can't possibly be samples it's a live recording do not buy from this seller! buyers beware!!!
lol joking one of the best mockups I heard in a long while
why aren't you listed on imdb yet? if not as a composer then as an arranger at the least


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