# Incredible, but true...Sonuscore The Orchestra



## xaviduch (Jul 19, 2017)

Hello friends,https://sonuscore.com/the-orchestra-coming-soon/

Wow! I must say I am amazed discovering this package.

I work with orchestral libraries since VSL arrives to our computers and...having in my discs, stuff from Spitfire Audio SSO through EWQLO gold, Lass to Orchestral tools Berlin Strings, brass, bww...I must say, this is amazing. Don't get my wrong..I love many of this great libraries I mentioned, but...this only weights 6,5 GB with all orchestra included!! plus a decent, very decent choirs added!! You have no control of mic sections as BS or SSO, ok..but..to me, the response playing the keyboard, the feeling playing those sounds, its GUI, simplicity and.. you have arpegiators to create ostinatum " a la Lass" with (I think) no gun effect at all!A lot of prests already orchestrated, rythyms...but with 88 presets of every single section with a few and basic articulations... lovely balance between playing soft and hard, with a included reverb (I guess convolution IR?) or what, but it's amazing...it allows you to work with a full template more common with a lot of synths, basses, drums etc and you are able to add a full orchestral color just for an insignificant part of the total ram!

I repeat...in total, it weights almost like just 2 Berlin brass French horns with full mic sections...Wow!


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## Nuno (Jul 19, 2017)

I am amazed as well although some solo instruments are very poor and in my opinion this package can t stand on it`s own and you need to compliment with some of mentioned libraries for exposed parts. But very happy so far! Hope to see some update soon


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## xaviduch (Jul 19, 2017)

Nuno said:


> I am amazed as well although some solo instruments are very poor and in my opinion this package can t stand on it`s own and you need to compliment with some of mentioned libraries for exposed parts. But very happy so far! Hope to see some update soon


Yes...I agree...some instruments, may be a little poor (personally I found the bassoon weird...) the strings as a base, are specially interesting, at least since the point of view as a keyboardist, but yes, you need to compliment with big guys to achieve more pro results...although, as I said before, its low weight makes it very very helpuful!


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 19, 2017)

The low weight is offset by high cpu usage, at least on my system. I have had a number of crashes using it in Logic.
It certainly is a forward thinking product and glad I purchased it but the issues on my system are not minor.


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## xaviduch (Jul 19, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> The low weight is offset by high cpu usage, at least on my system. I have had a number of crashes using it in Logic.
> It certainly is a forward thinking product and glad I purchased it but the issues on my system are not minor.


uhmm...I lived this kind of things with Mural strings years ago..it was anoying...Actually, with the same system, different kontakt, that problem was gone..it's hard to find why, specially when with Sample modelling stuff than it demands high cpu usage now is going so well..I hope you or Sonuscore find a solution soon!


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## bryla (Jul 19, 2017)

I predict that orchestrating will become a practice of audio transcription rather than working from MIDI :D


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## Steinmetzify (Jul 19, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> The low weight is offset by high cpu usage, at least on my system. I have had a number of crashes using it in Logic.
> It certainly is a forward thinking product and glad I purchased it but the issues on my system are not minor.



How many instances are you running @Craig Sharmat?


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## Ashermusic (Jul 19, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> The low weight is offset by high cpu usage, at least on my system. I have had a number of crashes using it in Logic.
> It certainly is a forward thinking product and glad I purchased it but the issues on my system are not minor.



Yes, I noticed that too. VE Pro helps though.


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## NoamL (Jul 19, 2017)

bryla said:


> I predict that orchestrating will become a practice of audio transcription rather than working from MIDI :D



I predict that people who use this library won't hire orchestrators anytime soon


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## cristianmatei (Jul 19, 2017)

I bought it, I tested it and I really like it.


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## xaviduch (Jul 19, 2017)

After a few hours, I feel there are some instruments with no comparation with Orchestral tools woodwins or Spitfire Audio WW but...I still like a lot the strings section and with the rest of tools, it's really a well and compact fine package for those 6.5GB...I am using an I7 as a master and a Mac Pro 3.1 (with OSX Sierra) as slave, and I have no problems or crashes! may be Cubase with VEP 5 allows me to avoid this kind of troubles?..


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## germancomponist (Jul 19, 2017)

No joke!

A befriended film producer who produces commercial films was drawn to this library and bought it. His statement: "In the future, I hardly need a composer."

Yeah ..... .


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 19, 2017)

germancomponist said:


> No joke!
> 
> A befriended film producer who produces commercial films was drawn to this library and bought it. His statement: "In the future, I hardly need a composer."
> 
> Yeah ..... .



Yeah, I imagine he must be a major douchebag in his field believing that


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## bryla (Jul 19, 2017)

NoamL said:


> I predict that people who use this library won't hire orchestrators anytime soon


Well it could actually happen that those composers would really want to have a recording. Either way I'm available :D


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## germancomponist (Jul 19, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Yeah, I imagine he must be a major douchebag in his field believing that


Do not underestimate these people. They have the power to sit on the longer lever. There are enough examples from other industries ....
- Photographers - Photoshop - , for example.


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## Replicant (Jul 19, 2017)

I think that "teaser 2" is a little bit absurd in some of the things it states as if it's a good thing.

"No countless mic positions"

Okay, most libraries have like 3 or 4. Not "countless" and I LIKE having different mics.

"No avant-garde articulations"

What!? Some of the "avant-garde" articulations are the best! That's one of the things that made EWQLSO great.

"No different vibrato types"

Yay! Fewer options for the single most expressive technique in playing a sustained note on like 90% of instruments!

Just about the only positives it lists are "No over-complex UI", "No endless loading times", and "No nonsense"


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## ghandizilla (Jul 19, 2017)

The single patches are way too limited to be spatialized with other libraries or to be made expressive. One kind of short? Just shorts and longs? What are you supposed to do with it? Rythms and chords and... that's it. About 1% of what the instruments can _actually _deliver. The only thing about this library is the engine, which seems inspiring and - if you're on a deadline - can deliver some background textures. That's it. It's just not the same league (at all!) than Cinesamples, OT, Spitfire, et al. It doesn't _even _make sense to compare these libraries. It eludes me: how can someone hear for example 8dio stuff and then "The Orchestra" and say : "how, they can compete". No, they can't. The Orchestra didn't even mean to compete other editors. It's just about this engine and how it can inspire you and accelerate your background texturing process (according you don't push the textures foreground, so the space discrepancies remain half-hidden). If you think you can do everything with it or worse, that it can do half the job of writing music for you, then you'll never be able to do something that will be remembered.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 19, 2017)

Replicant said:


> I think that "teaser 2" is a little bit absurd in some of the things it states as if it's a good thing.
> 
> "No countless mic positions"
> 
> ...




Well, their marketing didnt worked for me. I am happy that I did pass this time, because I dont like when companies tell me what is good or not or even worse: try to sell me good features as bad ones.I know they were a bit joking and thats ok. But just from my opinion: Their single sound patches sound most of the time like crap, no wonder why they concentrated their walkthrough on their arppegiator. This library is a bluff, in some aspects a clever one


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## Leon Portelance (Jul 19, 2017)

I am glad I bought OT's Inspire instead.


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## Replicant (Jul 19, 2017)

Leon Portelance said:


> I am glad I bought OT's Inspire instead.



I still think "The Orchestra" is impressive at what it tries to do, but I'd agree that Inspire is the superior option.


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## Quasar (Jul 19, 2017)

Leon Portelance said:


> I am glad I bought OT's Inspire instead.


I own neither, watched overviews of both and and think, from afar, that you made a very wise choice.


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## Alohabob (Jul 19, 2017)

Leon Portelance said:


> I am glad I bought OT's Inspire instead.


What is that?


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 19, 2017)

Steinmetzify said:


> How many instances are you running @Craig Sharmat?



Often just one and then embellished with a few patches from other libs that don't have an issue in my system. As Jay mentioned VE-Pro is probably a good solution but if possible I like to work just with Logic.


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## Steinmetzify (Jul 19, 2017)

Weird. I'll often run two or three on separate tracks at the same time on an ancient laptop system using Reaper, and no issues. 

Buddy with a more powerful desktop ran into a problem trying to render 7 tracks the other night...neither one of us could figure out why. Ended up working but took around 30 minutes. I haven't had any issues at all.


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## Vastman (Jul 19, 2017)

I have both Inspire & The Orchestra... They are both fantastic. Naysayers on TO are fools... Many of us are not orchestrators... Including the bulk of songwriters and TO is a breath of fresh air, just like Novo... Allowing us to expand orchestral elements of our compositions which was not possible before. It's fun and very innovative. 

Professionals have many libraries... Hell, I own many dozens and don't sell my music. TO is a new tool... a fantastic new tool... The most innovative orchestral to date. 

Enjoy it or move on... Although I feel to ignore or trash it is foolish.


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## Steinmetzify (Jul 19, 2017)

Agreed...I'm a guitarist with a weird creative bent. I picked this up because I don't need all the articulations that most string/orchestral libraries have...I don't sell this stuff, I make it in my office and freak guitar buddies out on drumjams.

I did show it to a friend that does stuff for trailers, he hadn't heard of it yet. He went home and bought it immediately based on an hour's tryout at my place.

Is it as deep as some of the stuff out there? Nah, but it doesn't pretend to be. Works for me as a starter library for sure. Plus? It's fun as hell to mess with.


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## xaviduch (Jul 20, 2017)

Hi again,

As I started this topic, I don't want "to sell"this package as a revolution...It's easy...How many times you purchased a library than it (they) promise you be the best, for sound (hall), articulations (a lot), for easy blending with other libraries, mic capabilities, price...you download the beast, and when you put your hand on keyboard, you feel "yes, but...no!" ??
I just want to say, as a composer, as a musician with so many years in this things, when I play without stop a beautiful instrument like Alto solo flute or a bassoon of BWW, I feel the emotion to play as a real player of that instrument! cos it has been programmed with a good intention, playability and soniclly well balanced, with a smooth vibrato, a nice fade out at the end of notes...but you can't feel that in every single instrument/section, it doesn't matter if it's expensive or not..it's ok or not! to your ears, but to your response too..

With this package, I feel something than it was a surprise to me! the response of all this with the strings...with just 4 or 5 articulations! yes! but the response...is amazing! when you play smooth, you feel that, not as they have turn off the volume down, or you lose the end of the tale because the reverb is baked to the sound, or may be you just have 3 or 4 layers of dynamycs and you need to turn up the volume of kontakt to capture the moment you want play smooth...

These things doesn't happen with TO, at least with strings...so I mean, there are a bunch of very good qualities in it, may be it's the first attempt to get something more competitive like Inspire or Albion series, but t's so!

I don't like to get an articulation with 4 or 5 instruments layered to write music..I like to do it as always, step by step..it's my problem, but I prefer to do it so..Btw, many people will find this very useful for their experience or because they want something than first, it inspires you and it allows you to learn some interesting tricks about how to orchestrate, etc etc..all this, just for 6,5GB...it's only that...

You can create an arrangement with a fake library if you know how it will sound mentally, it doesn't matter if you are playing with the "ancient" VSL or whatever...after you will spend time to translate that to your favorite strings library..no?


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## Avalon999 (Aug 18, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> The low weight is offset by high cpu usage, at least on my system. I have had a number of crashes using it in Logic.
> It certainly is a forward thinking product and glad I purchased it but the issues on my system are not minor.



Hello Craig, me too I experienced Logic Crashes and not only with the Orchestra but also with some other libraries in the past.

Try the following as suggested by NI tech support:

1) Navigate to Macintosh HD > Library > Application Support > Native Instruments > Kontakt

2) Rename the file to Kontakt_OLD

3) Navigate to Macintosh HD > Users > *Your User Name* > Library > Application Support > Native Instruments > Kontakt

4) Rename this file to Kontakt 5_OLD

5) Restart Kontakt (as a stand-alone application)

--3a-- Kontakt will rebuild its database (sorta)

6) Close down Kontakt

7) Restart your Host


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## Brian2112 (Aug 18, 2017)

Have both Inspire and TO. Love them both. Ironically, I'm "inspired" more by TO and use "Inspire" for the orchestra. Then I add Albion, Then CSS then EWHO Diamond with a sprinkle of Symphobia. Im no pro, but it works for me since they had no real traditional orchestration when I was at Berklee. Learning a lot.


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## thereus (Aug 18, 2017)

Replicant said:


> I think that "teaser 2" is a little bit absurd in some of the things it states as if it's a good thing.
> 
> "No countless mic positions"
> 
> ...



I quite like a bit of nonsense.


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## Syneast (Aug 19, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Their single sound patches sound most of the time like crap, no wonder why they concentrated their walkthrough on their arppegiator.


These were the stages I went through with it:

1. Wow! An affordable full orchestral library for Kontakt with separate sections that works on a crappy laptop?!

2. Holy crap, that demo sounds like HTTYD! Time for walkthroughs!

3. Ok, those are some really nice arpeggios/patterns, I'm sure they are inspiring to work with. Now, let's have a look at the interesting stuff...

4. Uhm. Are the separate instrument patches really supposed to sound like that? But... but... the demos?

5. Berlin Orchestra Inspire may be an ensemble library, but my gut tells me it's the better deal.

6. Yep. Pretty darn happy I bought BOI.

*EDIT:* That being said, if you need an affordable full library with separate sections for Kontakt I can't think of a better option. I may have been biased because I already have EWQLSO for Kontakt, but if you don't have that your options are pretty slim. VSL SE is for their own player and EWQLSO/HO is for Play, obviously. How these two are still the main contenders in 2017 is beyond me, by the way.

I may have been too harsh on The Orchestra. It is unique in what it offers and fills a gap in the market. For sound I'd still pick BOI over it any day, but TO gives you the complete orchestra, which is valuable if you want to orchestrate in the traditional manner.


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## AR (Aug 19, 2017)

To me The Orchestra sounds like the very old and bad HALion Symphonic Strings some of you older guys might know. I don't know what purpose the company had in mind with The Orchestra. Bit after products like Action Strings/ Drums, it was a poor let down :/


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## Musicam (Aug 19, 2017)

AR said:


> To me The Orchestra sounds like the very old and bad HALion Symphonic Strings some of you older guys might know. I don't know what purpose the company had in mind with The Orchestra. Bit after products like Action Strings/ Drums, it was a poor let down :/



I have HALion Symphonic Strings, its a pain now. I bought 7 years ago and in the vault. I cry! For this reason I say to all te people, think good what is your buying it.


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## sostenuto (Aug 19, 2017)

AR said:


> To me The Orchestra sounds like the very old and bad HALion Symphonic Strings some of you older guys might know. I don't know what purpose the company had in mind with The Orchestra. Bit after products like Action Strings/ Drums, it was a poor let down :/



Did you purchase TO, or are your comments from the posted audio/video content ?? 
I have no issue whatsoever with your critique, just surprised as so many other positive responses _ as well as personal experience so far.


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## kurtvanzo (Aug 19, 2017)

Syneast said:


> *EDIT:* That being said, if you need an affordable full library with separate sections for Kontakt I can't think of a better option. I may have been biased because I already have EWQLSO for Kontakt, but if you don't have that your options are pretty slim. VSL SE is for their own player and EWQLSO/HO is for Play, obviously. How these two are still the main contenders in 2017 is beyond me, by the way.
> 
> I may have been too harsh on The Orchestra. It is unique in what it offers and fills a gap in the market. For sound I'd still pick BOI over it any day, but TO gives you the complete orchestra, which is valuable if you want to orchestrate in the traditional manner.



The Orchestra is best suited to be an appregio/inspiration library than a full blown orchestration tool. The sounds are tailored for the engine, which is why the demos and appegio part sound so good. But if you use these in a tranditional sense (play each part out individually), you'll have nothing approaching the sound of East West Hollywood Orch. Which is realtively cheap BECAUSE it's been around so long it's paid back the original investment, where newer libraries (Berlin, Cinesamples, Spitfire) still have the investment (and royalties) to pay out. This is why comparing this to any other full blown library is unfair. HO was even more expensive than current libraries the first few years it was out.

The Orchestra is actually a bit pricey for what it is (an arppegio library) but the individual instruments could be a good starting point for some. Others will want to use TO for what it's good for and add better libraries for exposed parts. Perhaps they will do a deep sale one day, but even $399 is pricey for 6GB Imho.


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## Wes Antczak (Aug 20, 2017)

Solid State Orchestra, which is actually $59, is fantastic, but it really isn't a sampled orchestra as such. It's mainly comprised of orchestral-like sounds created on an analog synthesizer, right?


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## dpasdernick (Aug 20, 2017)

Replicant said:


> ...and "No nonsense"



I like nonsense. Nonsense with 3 mic positions and round robins.In fact I only buy libraries that are chock full of nonsense. Hopefully they'll include some nonsense in a future update.


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## reutunes (Aug 21, 2017)

It's actually really interesting for me to read some of the comments within this thread - as I had a similar "curve" with this library when reviewing it for The Samplecast. My thoughts HERE


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## procreative (Aug 21, 2017)

What I find interesting about The Orchestra is that it demonstrates that even using less than stellar samples, creative use of velocity, dynamics and rhythm can more than make up for technical flaws, especially when its the base over which lead instruments are added.

There is a lot of potential for this library and if they can add in 2 features, for me, it would become a very useful ideas tool:

1. Midi Export
2. Ability to Keyswitch between several "Colors" or "Rhythms" (a bit like Sonokinetic's phrase titles)

Sure there is nothing in the library you cannot achieve other ways, but sometimes hearing combinations instantly gives you the starting point.

It was an easy choice for me, already owning Berlin Woodwinds, First Chairs and the Metropolis Ark series, Inspire did not really offer me much more than I already had and there were not enough articulations to "Inspire" me to purchase.

I mainly bought The Orchestra for the phrase building facility not the quality of its sounds (although they are not so bad when used mainly as underscore).


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## moosethree (Aug 21, 2017)

I am going to use it in Hybrid "orchestration" where perfection is less an issue.


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## bigcat1969 (Aug 21, 2017)

It was interesting to see The Orchestra and Inspire! come out at roughly the same time, footprint and price and be the complete opposite approach. Having watched the videos and read about The Orchestra, I appreciate the cleverness of the scripting and in fact have tried to copy it somewhat in my own releases. The idea of chords and arps made simple and yet programmable is a very clever one along with the idea of sound shaping. Plus the short articulations take up very little room and fat arps can disguise mediocre samples.

On the other hand Inspire! offers very little beyond incredible tone. It has too few velocity layers, one mic position, no sustain round robins and certainly no clever arp scripting, but my goodness what a tone.


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## sostenuto (Aug 21, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> It was interesting to see The Orchestra and Inspire! come out at roughly the same time, footprint and price and be the complete opposite approach. Having watched the videos and read about The Orchestra, I appreciate the cleverness of the scripting and in fact have tried to copy it somewhat in my own releases. The idea of chords and arps made simple and yet programmable is a very clever one along with the idea of sound shaping. Plus the short articulations take up very little room and fat arps can disguise mediocre samples.
> 
> On the other hand Inspire! offers very little beyond incredible tone. It has too few velocity layers, one mic position, no sustain round robins and certainly no clever arp scripting, but my goodness what a tone.



Purchased both, and still waaay early to critique at my learner-level, but relate to your comments.

Initial impressions with BO_Inspire also focus on the 'tone', BUT .... feel it put me in somewhat of a box; needing to add big $$$ for M Ark(s), or OT _ Berlin x, y, z. Not prepared to go there at this point. 

Luv The Orchestra, bonus choir, arps, and have lots of fun stuff to experiment with in NI Komplete11 Ultimate, __ SF Albion One, Edna01 Earth, Glass & Steel, several Labs libraries. 

!!!! should these likely enhance BO_Inspire, as well ?


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## AR (Aug 23, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Did you purchase TO, or are your comments from the posted audio/video content ??
> I have no issue whatsoever with your critique, just surprised as so many other positive responses _ as well as personal experience so far.


My assistant next door did, cause he was fooled by the awesome videos. I told him to be careful with that. 7gb for an orchestra? I didn't believe in that, I told him. But he said something like; It's cheap, it's easy to use. Now he ran off back to Albion :D 
I warned him about the same I experience I had with Halion Orchestra. ...once I heard Harry Gregson-Williams making a mockup for Narnia with it, and then I was like. I need that. I want that, so I can have sounds like him under my fingertips. Bammm! Straight into ma face. 
I remember working with Halion Strings I and II and Quantum Leap and all that stuff in a time when x86s were limited to 8GB Ram. But nowadays companies should go crazy like the HZ piano library. Multiple of everything, so you can tailor your own sound.


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## AR (Aug 23, 2017)

Sry. x86s had 8GB Ram, right, but Windows XP/2000 handled mostly just 3.2gb. Only if you had the unstable XP 64bit you could handle little bit more.


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## AR (Aug 23, 2017)

Sry. x86s had 8GB Ram, right, but Windows XP/2000 handled mostly just 3.2gb. Only if you had the unstable XP 64bit you could handle little bit more.


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## Quasar (Aug 23, 2017)

Wes Antczak said:


> Solid State Orchestra, which is actually $59, is fantastic, but it really isn't a sampled orchestra as such. It's mainly comprised of orchestral-like sounds created on an analog synthesizer, right?


This is exactly correct. It neither strives for nor attains to the realism of a high end virtual orchestra, but it's extremely cleverly designed, great fun to play and sounds very good on it's own terms. There are many modern/postmodern musical contexts in which it can fill in beautifully. It's not SSO, but it doesn't try to be. Great library IMHO, and great bang for buck.

I too decided that TO was too expensive for what it is. If they ever have a blowout sale that brings it closer to an Indiginus-like price point, I may reconsider.


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## sostenuto (Aug 23, 2017)

Quasar said:


> This is exactly correct. It neither strives for nor attains to the realism of a high end virtual orchestra, but it's extremely cleverly designed, great fun to play and sounds very good on it's own terms. There are many modern/postmodern musical contexts in which it can fill in beautifully. It's not SSO, but it doesn't try to be. Great library IMHO, and great bang for buck.
> 
> I too decided that TO was too expensive for what it is. If they ever have a blowout sale that brings it closer to an Indiginus-like price point, I may reconsider.



Was fortunate to have access to TO at Best Service Crossgrade pricing .... which truly helped.
For 'early-days' orch/cine/epic/trlr learner, TO adds some 'fun' to the process, which also encourages more usage.

Having also added BO_Inspire, at Intro price, TO provides basis for trying similar work with great 'tone' of BO_I. 

Just different fit for different skill set ....


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## Vastman (Aug 24, 2017)

Quasar said:


> This is exactly correct. It neither strives for nor attains to the realism of a high end virtual orchestra, but it's extremely cleverly designed, great fun to play and sounds very good on it's own terms. There are many modern/postmodern musical contexts in which it can fill in beautifully. It's not SSO, but it doesn't try to be. Great library IMHO, and great bang for buck.
> 
> I too decided that TO was too expensive for what it is. If they ever have a blowout sale that brings it closer to an Indiginus-like price point, I may reconsider.


Indigenous is a wonderful company and I truly appreciate Tracy's reasonable prices for his creations. I have all his stuff... However, to even begin to compair TO to indiginus or to expect such a price in the future is patently absurd! TO is NOT in the same ballpark. It is a monumental achievement, across the entire orchestral spectrum and thinking this will soon be a 49 to 99$ deal makes me wonder what chur smokin?

Personally I think it's the best money I've spent, value/innovation/playability wise, dollar for dollar among the $15k+ on orchestral over the past decade. You can dream or save and snag it maybe in a $100 off BF sale...but it ain't no renegade or solid state symphony


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## Quasar (Aug 24, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Indigenous is a wonderful company and I truly appreciate Tracy's reasonable prices for his creations. I have all his stuff... However, to even begin to compair TO to indiginus or to expect such a price in the future is patently absurd! TO is NOT in the same ballpark. It is a monumental achievement, across the entire orchestral spectrum and thinking this will soon be a 49 to 99$ deal makes me wonder what chur smokin?
> 
> Personally I think it's the best money I've spent, value/innovation/playability wise, dollar for dollar among the $15k+ on orchestral over the past decade. You can dream or save and snag it maybe in a $100 off BF sale...but it ain't no renegade or solid state symphony


LOL. I don't "expect" that the price will come down to the SSS price point, and never said so. Nor do I have any opinion about what TO is "worth" in any global sense. It's just not worth very much to me, as it seems to be more of an arp/pattern maker than anything else, I'm working on learning how to orchestrate, and I'm not convinced that what this library does well and what my interests are converge very much. That's all.

If what it offers is up your tree, then by all means you should have it and use it. Be fruitful and enjoy! BTW, I'm not smoking anything, though I do believe that if you've "been experienced" in the Jimi Hendrix sense, you don't necessarily ever really come quite back all the way down. At least I hope not...


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## Vastman (Aug 25, 2017)

Good clarificarion...and yes, an effective dose of DMT will forever change you...


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## skyy38 (Nov 8, 2017)

AR said:


> To me The Orchestra sounds like the very old and bad HALion Symphonic Strings some of you older guys might know. I don't know what purpose the company had in mind with The Orchestra. Bit after products like Action Strings/ Drums, it was a poor let down :/



Were the symphonic strings "bad" because they SOUNDED bad or was it because you didn't take the time to get to "know them" i.e., you didn't work with them to get the sound that you wanted?


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## skyy38 (Nov 8, 2017)

germancomponist said:


> Do not underestimate these people. They have the power to sit on the longer lever. There are enough examples from other industries ....
> - Photographers - Photoshop - , for example.



Yeah, "photographers" who use Photoshop to take ALL of their pictures with.


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## chillbot (Nov 8, 2017)

skyy38 said:


> Were the symphonic strings "bad" because they SOUNDED bad or was it because you didn't take the time to get to "know them" i.e., you didn't work with them to get the sound that you wanted?


I think it's because they smelled bad. I never could get over that smell.


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## skyy38 (Nov 8, 2017)

xaviduch said:


> Hello friends,https://sonuscore.com/the-orchestra-coming-soon/
> 
> Wow! I must say I am amazed discovering this package.
> 
> ...



Sonuscore's tangents need some serious work, as concerns their commercial.

THEY claim that their product will make your composing faster.

Yeah, *right*. (sarcasm)

That's like a condom company claiming ( to women ) that ribbed condoms will make their lovers SLOW DOWN because they have "speed bumps."

Sorry Sonuscore, but your product will make ORCHESTRATING "faster" BUT not COMPOSING.

Composing is STILL a thing that each individual has to deal with, in his or her own way. in their own time.

And EXECUTION is NOTHING, without an idea or composition, to begin with.

Back to "The Drawing Board."


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## skyy38 (Nov 8, 2017)

chillbot said:


> I think it's because they smelled bad. I never could get over that smell.



"Ohhhhh that smell-the smell of love behind you?"

( I think )


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## skyy38 (Nov 8, 2017)

Replicant said:


> I think that "teaser 2" is a little bit absurd in some of the things it states as if it's a good thing.
> 
> "No countless mic positions"
> 
> ...




And WHEN did "mic positions" start taking precedence over tastefully applied reverb, EQ and pan positions?

I mean, is it like "Amp Modeling" or what?


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## skyy38 (Nov 8, 2017)

Vastman said:


> I have both Inspire & The Orchestra... They are both fantastic. Naysayers on TO are fools... Many of us are not orchestrators... Including the bulk of songwriters and TO is a breath of fresh air, just like Novo... Allowing us to expand orchestral elements of our compositions which was not possible before. It's fun and very innovative.
> 
> Professionals have many libraries... Hell, I own many dozens and don't sell my music. TO is a new tool... a fantastic new tool... The most innovative orchestral to date.
> 
> Enjoy it or move on... Although I feel to ignore or trash it is foolish.



Well the secret to composing FOR orchestra, MIDI or REAL, is knowing HOW to "orchestrate" in the first place.
If you DON'T know THAT much, man, then I would move on.

As I have previously stated before, NO amount of technology can turn YOU into WHAT you want to be, because FAR askance of "technology" was a little bitty thing called "Knowledge".

And AGAIN, MOST of you, who occupy these pages, totally expect to be able to climb a mountain, by jumping from the base, to the peak.

NO amount of TOYS that YOU surround yourselves with, will NEVER be a substitute for actual LEARNING.

I mean really! "Programming Articulations" when you should just be PLAYING them in?

I don't see ANY Symphony Orchestras "programming ANYTHING"

They are PLAYING!


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## skyy38 (Nov 8, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Did you purchase TO, or are your comments from the posted audio/video content ??
> I have no issue whatsoever with your critique, just surprised as so many other positive responses _ as well as personal experience so far.


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## robgb (Nov 8, 2017)

skyy38 said:


> And WHEN did "mic positions" start taking precedence over tastefully applied reverb, EQ and pan positions?



Exactly. I prefer one mic position. CLOSE. Very little room sound. I can add the room, thank you, in exactly the way I want to.


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## AR (Nov 8, 2017)

Did one of you guys ever attend an orchestral recording session? Do you know how many microphones it takes to get the ish out of the sound? And this is just 33% of what I consider makes a decent recording. The other 2/3 are the engineers and the musicians. And still, when you take your recordings back home to your studio you want to mix your sound individually by pushing the faders during your composition. Yesss, you get lot's of gigabytes like HZ Piano. But who cares in a century when SSDs are cheap nowadays. 
For quite some time I see here on vi-control 2 rivaling camps. The ones that like dry and CPU-friendly libraries like LASS, cinesamples and the one discussed here in this thread, amongst others. 
And on the other side we have heavyweighted stuff that includes all (or lets say most of all) like EW, Spitfire, OT, etc. Why don't you wanna have full control under your fingertips instead of giving it away just for the cause of saving some GBs?
See, having natural reverberation recorded gives you definitly better results than plastic reverbs. And still if that isn't enough, you can use a reverb on top of it. Bump.
I was just listening Beethoven's 9th conducted by Karajan and wondered how the heck they made such a great recording in the 60ies? ...the Dolby heads were involved surely.
As Hans Zimmer stated in this forum stereo isn't futureproof. You might consider that when working on orchestral compositions.


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## ysnyvz (Nov 9, 2017)

robgb said:


> Exactly. I prefer one mic position. CLOSE. Very little room sound. I can add the room, thank you, in exactly the way I want to.


That's like saying I don't need atmosphere, I will make my own air in my laboratory.
Wake up man, even VSL started making wet libraries with multiple mic positions.


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## Vastman (Nov 9, 2017)

Skyy38... Reading through many of your comments I find them typical of the luddite mentality and self righteous holier-than-thou meme fools have spewed against innovations and technological advancement and those of us who find them exciting since the first midi incantation /sampler arrived on the scene.

There are many ways to create and move minds, hearts, bodies & spirits using the amazing compositional tools, whether it's Orange Tree's excellent guitars or my Novax Tele, any of the amazing collections of virtual drums & DM's, orchestral libraries and the recent innovations within this realm such as HY's NOVO, Sonuscore's TO & others. Arguing there is only one way to properly orchestrate or add orchestral beauty to compositions is... Well.. Rediculous .

Spewing "it's not real" dogma in today's world of magical tools is laughable, as is the presumption that we all subscribe to your BS narrow minded definitions of what is good or proper. It's a dumb as arguing if I can't tear music I can't properly compose! I'll just call it Trumpism...seems rampant these days!

Music is art... It penetrates the armor and touches the heart... We all have different ways and means to play in this lovely pond...

I thought we'd have gotten beyond this sort of self righteous blather... YOU may not LIKE something but YOU are just a SILLY narrow minded grump who thinks HE has his SHIT together! (couldn't resist mimicking your little capitalization thing...) DRAAAMMMA QUEEEEN's with an over active sense of their own supposedly righteous opinion make me roll my eyes.

Mics? Really? REEEEAAALLLY???


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## mac (Nov 9, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Skyy38... Reading through many of your comments I find them typical of the luddite mentality and self righteous holier-than-thou meme fools have spewed against innovations and technological advancement and those of us who find them exciting since the first midi incantation /sampler arrived on the scene.
> 
> There are many ways to create and move minds, hearts, bodies & spirits using the amazing compositional tools, whether it's Orange Tree's excellent guitars or my Novax Tele, any of the amazing collections of virtual drums & DM's, orchestral libraries and the recent innovations within this realm such as HY's NOVO, Sonuscore's TO & others. Arguing there is only one way to properly orchestrate or add orchestral beauty to compositions is... Well.. Rediculous .
> 
> ...



I think you misunderstood @skyy38's comments, he's saying the opposite from what I read.


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## robgb (Nov 9, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> That's like saying I don't need atmosphere, I will make my own air in my laboratory.



That's EXACTLY what I'm saying. And the air in my laboratory has no pollutants.



> Wake up man, even VSL started making wet libraries with multiple mic positions.



VSL only jumped on the bandwagon because it's the soup of the day. Nobody wants to learn the art of mixing. They want it easy. Problem is, wet samples make your job harder in the long run.


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## ysnyvz (Nov 9, 2017)

robgb said:


> Problem is, wet samples make your job harder in the long run.


So? Make them dry with your superior mixing skills. You can do it. I believe in you. After all you are the guy who makes his own air.


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## robgb (Nov 9, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> So? Make them dry with your superior mixing skills. You can do it. I believe in you. After all you are the guy who makes his own air.


Glad you're finally getting it.


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## skyy38 (Nov 9, 2017)

AR said:


> Did one of you guys ever attend an orchestral recording session? Do you know how many microphones it takes to get the ish out of the sound? And this is just 33% of what I consider makes a decent recording. The other 2/3 are the engineers and the musicians. And still, when you take your recordings back home to your studio you want to mix your sound individually by pushing the faders during your composition. Yesss, you get lot's of gigabytes like HZ Piano. But who cares in a century when SSDs are cheap nowadays.
> For quite some time I see here on vi-control 2 rivaling camps. The ones that like dry and CPU-friendly libraries like LASS, cinesamples and the one discussed here in this thread, amongst others.
> And on the other side we have heavyweighted stuff that includes all (or lets say most of all) like EW, Spitfire, OT, etc. Why don't you wanna have full control under your fingertips instead of giving it away just for the cause of saving some GBs?
> See, having natural reverberation recorded gives you definitly better results than plastic reverbs. And still if that isn't enough, you can use a reverb on top of it. Bump.
> ...



And SOME orchestral recording sessions, just turn out to be TOTAL disasters, IMHO.



And how it sounds behind the movie.


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## skyy38 (Nov 9, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Skyy38... Reading through many of your comments I find them typical of the luddite mentality and self righteous holier-than-thou meme fools have spewed against innovations and technological advancement and those of us who find them exciting since the first midi incantation /sampler arrived on the scene.
> 
> There are many ways to create and move minds, hearts, bodies & spirits using the amazing compositional tools, whether it's Orange Tree's excellent guitars or my Novax Tele, any of the amazing collections of virtual drums & DM's, orchestral libraries and the recent innovations within this realm such as HY's NOVO, Sonuscore's TO & others. Arguing there is only one way to properly orchestrate or add orchestral beauty to compositions is... Well.. Rediculous .
> 
> ...



Hey VASTMAN, I NEVER said anything about ANYTHING NOT "Being Real."

I KNOW it's not real.

But all YOU people discussing computers and programs and anything else EXCEPT for the music, just makes me wonder.

Are you into this SOUNDTRACK GIG for the MUSIC, or the TECHNOLOGY?


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## NoamL (Nov 9, 2017)

skyy38 said:


> And SOME orchestral recording sessions, just turn out to be TOTAL disasters, IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> And how it sounds behind the movie.




Why do you keep linking that guy’s disaster? Would love to hear one of your pieces...

I’m pretty sure most of the people in this forum are not going to book a session with 6 trumpets 2 cellos...


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 10, 2017)

*cancels trumpet/Cello booking*






Sorry @NoamL im just trying to lighten the mood with some humour. I'm feeling a bit hot in here.


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## ghandizilla (Nov 10, 2017)

+1 to hear some of skyy38 work in the Member's Composition forum. I am skeptical about some comments he has made here and there, but only the music will tell us what it is worth.

EDIT: Found it!


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## markleake (Nov 12, 2017)

Thanks @ghandizilla. That was a very entertaining rabbit warren you just took me down! We need more cowbell I say!


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## procreative (Nov 12, 2017)

skyy38 said:


> And SOME orchestral recording sessions, just turn out to be TOTAL disasters, IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> And how it sounds behind the movie.




So you are using an example from a fan made film whose total budget was $5000? Its probably a volunteer orchestra made up of non-professional musicians. Its like comparing a guitar sample library to a live guitarist (but one who has only been playing a year on a Chibson).


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## AdamAlake (Nov 12, 2017)

skyy38 said:


> And EXECUTION is NOTHING, without an idea or composition, to begin with.



You are absolutely correct, so why are you getting so upset about what people use to get their idea out there?


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## Eglue (Nov 12, 2017)

I have The Orchestra. Find that it is exactly what I need for quick sketches. I would lay some feeling down and then move over to EWHO for the blend. Absolutely spot on.. I would love it, if they had "Drag Midi" , that would save some time. But it's not something I'd think that they would be doing anytime soon.Fingers crossed!!!!!!


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 13, 2017)

Eglue said:


> I have The Orchestra. Find that it is exactly what I need for quick sketches. I would lay some feeling down and then move over to EWHO for the blend. Absolutely spot on.. I would love it, if they had "Drag Midi" , that would save some time. But it's not something I'd think that they would be doing anytime soon.Fingers crossed!!!!!!


I would love it if they added that Midi functionality (please, Sonuscore if you're reading). I'm in the situation where I don't _need_ The Orchestra but if it had that functionality, I'd be in like a shot. It is on my "list" regardless.


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## procreative (Nov 14, 2017)

Have to agree with the last two posts for me whats missing is:

1. Midi export (possibly a bridge too far as it probably involves converting arps to midi notes).
2. Multiple pattern slots triggered by keyswitches (like Sonokinetic has in their phrase titles).

Its a clever concept and great for ideas, would be superb if you could repurpose them.

Little secret I discovered also in another product, EZKeys. The real gem is a Chord wheel, you can take a chord or pattern and convert it to any key or inversion and it has Midi drag drop. So you can take a basic midi phrase from its bank and convert it. Its a great learning tool, but also a great way to try out different progressions (for the less talented piano players).


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## Vovique (Nov 14, 2017)

And more multis in the update, please (Sonuscore if you're reading).)


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## Rob Elliott (Nov 14, 2017)

This library is just another 'tool' and for sure has it's uses (underlayment ostinatos, etc.). For me, though, the more 'upfront' it is in the track the more I want to 'replace' the various sounds with other more high end libraries (especially the brass and woods - but often the strings as well.) Midi export idea would speed that up and be welcomed for sure. The engine's strength is the ability (over other phrase based libraries) to do voice leading.

In conclusion, The reality is sometimes with 5-6 mins to write by 5 pm - this has been heaven-sent.


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## zimm83 (Nov 14, 2017)

Rob Elliott said:


> This library is just another 'tool' and for sure has it's uses (underlayment ostinatos, etc.). For me, though, the more 'upfront' it is in the track the more I want to 'replace' the various sounds with other more high end libraries (especially the brass and woods - but often the strings as well.) Midi export idea would speed that up and be welcomed for sure. The engine's strength is the ability (over other phrase based libraries) to do voice leading.
> 
> In conclusion, The reality is sometimes with 5-6 mins to write by 5 pm - this has been heaven-sent.



I would love to have the sustain pedal holding the sequences. As for now, it doesn' t work.

And pitch change in the sequences. 
Thanks.


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## Sopranos (Nov 14, 2017)

I find a lot of it is already finished by playing a note... how do you write over it? 

I think it's a fantastic library - I just don't really know how to use it.


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