# Recommendations for further Online study



## DynamicK (Jan 7, 2010)

Have decided that this year I am going to improve my knowledge instead of my sample library collection. 

I am thinking of enrolling in one of Berklee's Online certificate programs: 
either Professinal Arranging or Master Arranging.

I would like to hear opinions if this would be a wise move or would I be better off taking the EIS course or study privately with someone like Leon Willets. TBH the course fees for Berklee ($1000 per module) are right at the edge of my budget as the exchange rate isn't what is was 18 months ago.

I am unable to study full time due to responsibilities and am an amateur composer. I have completed Composition Level 2 from the OCA (UK) which was assesses by Buckingham University. I am currently working through *Russo's A New Approach to Composing Music.*

I have posted the final project of the OCA course in the Composition Section of this forum so you can see what standard I am.

Any pointers greatly appreciated.


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## DynamicK (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for your reply.



> Which berklee e class u are thinking of?


Professinal Arranging or Master Arranging. 

I am unable to attend full time courses as I need to bring in the money. Options for full time study in the UK are mainly through Royal School of Music, Guildhall, or Leeds Uni which aren't options.


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## fido94 (Jan 8, 2010)

have you looked into thinkspaceonline.com ? 

take a look at this:

http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... ht=#189519

btw, how do you like Russo's book?


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## DynamicK (Jan 8, 2010)

@fido Thanks for the reply



> have you looked into thinkspaceonline.com ?


Looks interesting, but I think I need to learn some more about harmony, melody etc before tackling Film Orchestration. These are the same people offering Music for the Media. I did contact them about that course and found out that no tuition is supplied.....it's mainly critiques about your work.

Are you doing their Film Orchestration course at the moment?



> btw , how do you like Russo's book?


Finding it really useful as the course I did before was a little dated and didn't really go into the fine details re Harmony and Melody. Lots of examples and projects to do.


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## synthetic (Jan 8, 2010)

1. Buy a score, or download from IMSLP 
2. Copy it to score paper, transposing instruments to concert pitch. 
3. Study what each part is doing, what dynamics they play at, how the melody is orchestrated, etc. 
4. Go to line 1 and repeat


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## DynamicK (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks for the reply synthetic. What you suggested is good practice, but I want to learn the basics of harmony and melody in order to advance my composition skills. Orchestration would be a little further down the line.


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## Ranietz (Jan 9, 2010)

synthetic @ Fri 08 Jan said:


> 1. Buy a score, or download from IMSLP
> 2. Copy it to score paper, transposing instruments to concert pitch.
> 3. Study what each part is doing, what dynamics they play at, how the melody is orchestrated, etc.
> 4. Go to line 1 and repeat



You could also do a short mockup of a part of the score you like. In that way you get more familiar with your sample library and learn what it can and can not do.
In addition you could reduce the score to a basic piano score so you could better understand how it's composed.
Then at last, compose a similar piece based on the piano reduction then apply the same orchestration.


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## fido94 (Jan 9, 2010)

I started the orchestration course this week. I really like it so far.

If you're interested in harmony/counterpoint and music theory, I'm only aware of Berklee offering courses online. You mentioned the arrangement certificate but I don't think that's going to give you what you're looking for.
I wouldn't be too concerned with a certificate (unless you want to put it on your resume), rather see what courses they have in the area you want with a watch point to make sure you look at the syllabus. Some of the theory courses I saw offered are very basic to me.

Final point is that if you're looking for advanced harmony topics, your options are most likely reading books and doing your own harmonic analysis on known scores.


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## Leandro Gardini (Jan 9, 2010)

Mick, my two suggestions are:

1 - When asking how to become more knowledgeable in music there will be lots of guys coming to you with the old known theory "you don´t need anyone else to learn, to it by yourself". The best thing you can do is never following this advice!!!
2 - Keep in mind that lots of studants from Berkley studied EIS after graduated, and all of them that experienced both think EIS is much superior!!!

Good luck!!


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## DynamicK (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks guys for all the suggestions. I will definitely try and do some mockups from some scores and see if I can work out what is going on in the melody and harmony. I may also try out one of the Berklee courses just to see what they offer.

*@fido94* Thanks for the update on the Cinematic Orchestration course. I may consider this at some point in the future.

*@leogardini:* Some valid points there. I always work better when I have some deadlines to meet :D I will check out the EIS system and see if I can get hold of a tutor to explain what standard is required to take the course and some idea of the cost.


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## Hakan Yurdakul (Jan 9, 2010)

Hi,
Online studying could be good, however it will cost you. If you wanna learn more about music theory, you can search for part time courses at the colleges around you live in for ABRSM. Last summer I passed Grade 8 music theory by selfstudy. Part time courses are really cheap in the UK. Particularly, Grade 6 music theory is really useful. When it comes to the harmony, you can analyse piano scores. Well counterpoint, strict and boring. It needs a good patience for studying counterpoint. As far as I know, conservatoires use old classical methods (palestrina style) to teach. I strongly recommend parttime courses for music theory (ABRSM). And other recommendation is to go to concerts to realize proximity effect. It might seem that it is not related to your concern, but it might be efficient while using sample libraries to compose after taking such those courses. At least you will spend your money to listen to live orchestra instead of online courses.
Take care
Hakan


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## DynamicK (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks for the info Hakan. I didn't know about the ABRSM courses. I will definitely search for more info, and being cheap is a bonus :D I did learn a little about counterpoint in the course I did, but it only scratched the surface really.
I'll keep my eyes open for concerts here at the Colston Hall........I did miss Rite of Spring last year due to work commitments. :(


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## robteehan (Jan 13, 2010)

I looked at the Berklee courses and they seem to me very expensive for what you get, which is mostly 'content' but little 'guidance'. It seems like the instructor feedback will be pretty slim, they will just present you with information and assignments and you do them and get a grade. I decided the money was better spent elsewhere.

I did a skype session with Leon Willett and he strikes me as a very knowledgeable and personable teacher. I recommend you go with him. In the long run, it's very valuable to have access to an instructor who can answer your questions, critique your work, and tailor the course material to your specific needs and background. Plus I know he has been teaching the areas you're interested in, i.e. harmony, counterpoint, all the theoretic nitty-gritty.

If not him then a local composer in your area could probably teach you theory. I think it will benefit you to have some private instruction in this area for a little while before you dive in to EIS or any of the self-directed courses of study you can find online. Self study is a lot easier if you've had some mentoring to get you a solid grasp of the basics.


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## fido94 (Jan 13, 2010)

Leon Willett or Robin Hoffmann should be both great although I haven't studied with them. Just listen to their musical and read their blogs and you'll see how amazing they are!


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## DynamicK (Jan 14, 2010)

*@robteehan* Thanks for the input. I have already emailed Leon about his courses and will call him to discuss it further. The lessons are not cheap, however, so would not be able to afford a whole course.

*@fido94* Thanks for the reply. I'll check out Robin Hoffman as I didn't know about him.


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## robteehan (Jan 14, 2010)

Private lessons always gives you the most return on your investment in my opinion, even if you can only take a half-course.

Good luck regardless of which path you choose.


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## DynamicK (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks robteehan your comment. I am also going to look at my local University which does have a reasonable music department. I see that I have an email from Robin Hoffman, so will see what that offers.


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## jsaras (Jan 29, 2010)

One of the many nice things about the EIS course for "beginners" is that it assumes that you know very little about music theory. If you can read and write bass and treble clef and are familiar with the diatonic progressions in major and minor keys, you are in an excellent place to begin your study of the EIS system.


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## DynamicK (Jan 29, 2010)

Thanks jsaras for the update on EIS. I will bear that in mind.


> If you can read and write bass and treble clef and are familiar with the diatonic progressions in major and minor keys


Well I am at least up to that standard :D 
I'll contact EIS to see about finding a tutor and the costs.


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