# Does anyone here make video games?



## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

Afternoon all,

I'm not sure where this could be posted on VI-C so I am posting it here. I am wondering, does anyone here make videogames?

I'm doing an MFA in Videogame Music and Audio and I've got to a point where I am now starting to learn the game Engine Unity. The purpose is for a composer/sound designer to learn how to implement audio and music the best they can and by learning a bit about a game engine, it gives you a far better understanding of the process and what you should do etc.

Anyway, that's the purpose of touching on Unity for the MFA. The deeper I dig the more I am loving the whole thing of being able to create your own environments, assets, stories, characters, obviously the music and Sound Design etc. For someone completely inexperienced like myself, I am also loving that there is an asset store and you can either use free assets or buy them and use them in your games.

I think I want to embark on creating a video game. Probably going to take me years but it's never too late to start right?! I was just wondering if anyone here makes their own video games or has one up their sleeve they are working on? Would love to talk more about the process. I'm very aware of how much hard work goes into making a game but talking to people that do this would be great! I'm thinking about making an open world rpg sci-fi comedy adventure set in my world.

For fun I started making some terrain a couple of nights ago (pulled my back taking the rubbish out so I've been on painkillers and laying in bed so I thought this might be a good use of my time learning something new. Completely new. As in, I am a complete "noob". It's rough as hell and instead of doing something sensible like placing a bush on some grass I decided I would immediately make a mountain range. 

Forget WestWorld. This is the rough and humble beginnings of JonoWorld...


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## Brasart (Oct 15, 2020)

I don't literally make games, but as composer/sound designer for mainly games I do enjoy the production side of work quite a lot.
When you're working on 2-3 years long productions and you're close with your team, it's very nice to be part of design discussions and contributing to the creation of a game besides sound.

I've done the same thing you're doing right now in my "Music & Sound Design" degree, which was at a video game/animation/cinema school (ISART Digital Paris).
We had to create our first Unity level, and I made a big mountain peak, and implemented music & sounds — it's pretty fun and quite enthralling !

There are TONS of free ressources online to make games (youtube tutorials, humble bundle asset packs, forums...), so you can totally continue to create on your own


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## Brasart (Oct 15, 2020)

Also starting out with a 3D game is very very hard, I'd recommend doing a 2D game from a Unity template first, try and get a good feel for the engine, its logic. It's easier to conceive levels and narratives from a 2D standpoint too!

Doing very short/small games before taking on a big one is the best way to go too, you'll learn a lot everytime and it's always better to try and do multiple small steps than to go for one big jump.
A great way of doing that is also joining in game jams, where you and everybody else who's participating are given a theme and have a very short time to create a game (48/72h, or a week or so)


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

Brasart said:


> I don't literally make games, but as composer/sound designer for mainly games I do enjoy the production side of work quite a lot.
> When you're working on 2-3 years long productions and you're close with your team, it's very nice to be part of design discussions and contributing to the creation of a game besides sound.
> 
> I've done the same thing you're doing right now in my "Music & Sound Design" degree, which was at a video game/animation/cinema school (ISART Digital Paris).
> ...



Yeah man, I love it. It must feel amazing being apart of the design discussions! I'm going to make an entire video game. Start small and keep building it and write a story. I'll use assets from the store as I'm not an animator or anything like that and figure things out along the way. There is Visual Scripting now so for people like me that don't know how to code (yet), you can use Visual Scripting to program logic in the video game. I found it to be so creative just building a landscape from scratch. Think I've found my first real hobby. Drinking booze, watching films/tv shows and playing video games being the only other ones


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## karelpsota (Oct 15, 2020)

I've made some very basic games when I was younger.


https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/156582825



Been looking in Unity but the learning curve is a bit steep.
Really impressed by what you've accomplished in so little time


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## Kent (Oct 15, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Yeah man, I love it. It must feel amazing being apart of the design discussions! I'm going to make an entire video game. Start small and keep building it and write a story. I'll use assets from the store as I'm not an animator or anything like that and figure things out along the way. There is Visual Scripting now so for people like me that don't know how to code (yet), you can use Visual Scripting to program logic in the video game. I found it to be so creative just building a landscape from scratch. Think I've found my first real hobby. Drinking booze, watching films/tv shows and playing video games being the only other ones


the real question: do you need a composer?


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

karelpsota said:


> I've made some very basic games when I was younger.
> 
> 
> https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/156582825
> ...



I'll check them out man! Great!

This feels like the start of a long walk. Much longer than Frodo and Sam's walk.


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

kmaster said:


> the real question: do you need a composer?



I'll pitch JonoWorld to Ramin


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## MartinH. (Oct 15, 2020)

Check out FMOD, it'll likely be more useful later than learning the native audio functions of Unity. 




Brasart said:


> Also starting out with a 3D game is very very hard, I'd recommend doing a 2D game from a Unity template first, try and get a good feel for the engine, its logic. It's easier to conceive levels and narratives from a 2D standpoint too!



Generally yes, but I find the 2D side of Unity to be unintuitive enough to mostly negate that. At least if you're comfortable thinking in a 3D coordinate space and can wrap your head around working with 3D vectors. 





jononotbono said:


> I'm thinking about making an open world rpg sci-fi comedy adventure set in my world.



I recommend starting with cloning very very simple games. Like Pong or Flappy Birds. Then clone something slightly more complex, till you clone something that has systems that you can reuse and adapt for your own creation.


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Check out FMOD, it'll likely be more useful later than learning the native audio functions of Unity.



I've already learned FMOD. It was the first thing my MFA taught. I will learn Wwise as well but hey, there's only 24hrs in a day.



MartinH. said:


> I recommend starting with cloning very very simple games. Like Pong or Flappy Birds. Then clone something slightly more complex, till you clone something that has systems that you can reuse and adapt for your own creation.



I'm trying to use the free 3D Game Kit that is officially released by Unity. It gives all the tools, gameplay mechanics and systems to make your own game. Just trying to get it to work and that's where I will start!


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## shponglefan (Oct 15, 2020)

I did a lot of amateur game development back in the 80's and 90's. Taught myself a half-dozen programming languages in the process.

Earlier this year I dipped back into it and got started with Godot working on a Frogger clone. It was mainly an excuse to start learning how to do pixel art (which is a lot more nuanced than people give it credit for).


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## shponglefan (Oct 15, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> I recommend starting with cloning very very simple games. Like Pong or Flappy Birds. Then clone something slightly more complex, till you clone something that has systems that you can reuse and adapt for your own creation.



I'll second this advice. Most people getting into game development don't realize just how much work is involved, even for games that seem relatively simple.

It's much easier to learn on straightforward games, especially with a clear vision of what the output should look like. It also helps in learning how to manage scope, since scope-creep is the death of many a game project.


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> I did a lot of amateur game development back in the 80's and 90's. Taught myself a half-dozen programming languages in the process.
> 
> Earlier this year I dipped back into it and got started with Godot working on a Frogger clone. It was mainly an excuse to start learning how to do pixel art (which is a lot more nuanced than people give it credit for).




That's amazing man!


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> Most people getting into game development don't realize just how much work is involved, even for games that seem relatively simple.



It's ok. The map size is only going to be 1:1 scale of the Isle of Wight.


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## shponglefan (Oct 15, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> It's ok. The map size is only going to be 1:1 scale of the Isle of Wight.



Perfect scope for a solo developer!  

Just be prepared for that inevitable moment when you've designed yourself into a corner and realize you have to start everything over from scratch. 

(It happens to everyone.)


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> Perfect scope for a solo developer!
> 
> Just be prepared for that inevitable moment when you've designed yourself into a corner and realize you have to start everything over from scratch.
> 
> (It happens to everyone.)



Totally. It's like playing around building a mountain and then realising that it was full of compiler errors and having no idea how to even fix them. So, yeah, years off from something good but it's gonna be a fun journey. Just figuring out how to put Green screen footage in the game and then I can create a hologram Jono to appear as and when Main Jono needs in game advice, story development or company.


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## davidson (Oct 15, 2020)

karelpsota said:


> I've made some very basic games when I was younger.
> 
> 
> https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/156582825
> ...



I really like the music on that bandito gold game!


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

karelpsota said:


> I've made some very basic games when I was younger.
> 
> 
> https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/156582825
> ...




It's great man! Cool music as well!


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## EricBarndollar (Oct 15, 2020)

If you're dead set on starting out with Unity, there are a ton of great tutorials out there and you'll probably be fine. But if you can spare 1 weekend to learn the fundamentals by programming a couple classic 2D games from scratch, I guarantee you'll finish JonoWorld™ sooner 

If none of us in this thread can twist your arm, read this "Why I quit teaching Unity first" blurb:
https://get.how-to-program-games.com/launch-page-11595562194521
...written by a past colleague of mine Chris DeLeon (who I'm pretty sure has been living and breathing game development since birth + has since taught thousands of hobby game makers). His Hands-On Intro to Game Programming book is also excellent (and a steal for $5.60), and you really can crank through one or two of those games super fast.


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## visiblenoise (Oct 15, 2020)

I've been working on one with a buddy for a while, but it's still early days. Unfortunately I don't find the actual work of figuring out Unity/Blender nearly as fun as writing story, discussing gameplay, or experimenting with music direction. And any advantage I thought I might have had by being a software engineer turned out to feel pretty insignificant. But we put in time regularly (however little it may be), and we're making progress.

I hope at some point, we'll have laid down most of the groundwork and learned most of the things we need to learn, and then making the content will be a blast. It's gonna be a third person stealth game (we're big fans of Metal Gear Solid), and the music will partly attempt to channel an old-school John Carpenter feel.

We actually started out trying to make a 2d game, but enthusiasm ran out because we realized we don't even really play/enjoy 2d games these days. No point in having a passion project you're not passionate about.

I'm actually in a silent working meeting with said buddy right now, pretending to work on the game...time to stop procrastinating!


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## Cheezus (Oct 15, 2020)

I've made a few prototypes in Game Maker and Unity. I'm a programmer well before I'm a composer. I actually spent a good deal of the Summer properly learning C# before I got completely obsessed with orchestral libraries and fell down this rabbit hole. Lately I've been writing VST plugins with JUCE rather than coding games, but I'm eager to get back into it.

Unity is an awesome tool for making games but it's a lot to learn. I like the coding and design aspects of it but I'm sure many would probably find it very difficult to get their head around if they have no programming experience in general.


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

EricBarndollar said:


> If you're dead set on starting out with Unity, there are a ton of great tutorials out there and you'll probably be fine. But if you can spare 1 weekend to learn the fundamentals by programming a couple classic 2D games from scratch, I guarantee you'll finish JonoWorld™ sooner
> 
> If none of us in this thread can twist your arm, read this "Why I quit teaching Unity first" blurb:
> https://get.how-to-program-games.com/launch-page-11595562194521
> ...written by a past colleague of mine Chris DeLeon (who I'm pretty sure has been living and breathing game development since birth + has since taught thousands of hobby game makers). His Hands-On Intro to Game Programming book is also excellent (and a steal for $5.60), and you really can crank through one or two of those games super fast.



Ok, ok. I'll make a smaller 2D game... But with the intention it will eventually go into my main game as a little additional side game. Like Space Invaders built into the table of my Strip bar.

I already know what it will be. You play as an anti hero. A composer that's down and out on your luck and haven't had a job for a while and at breaking point. You start with an empty pack. It's your job to sneak into peoples studios and steal as much MIDI as possible and fill your pack. The winner on the scoreboard has the biggest Midi Pack. The game will be very much like the classic "Duck Hunt" but instead of hunting Ducks, it will be called "Job Hunt" where it's your job to hunt jobs and stay off the street like all the other composers and musicians in the neighbourhood. Bonus rounds to earn extra cash for upgrades will include Bank Jobs and Hand Jobs but probably best not to go into all the details at the minute.


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

Cheezus said:


> I've made a few prototypes in Game Maker and Unity. I'm a programmer well before I'm a composer. I actually spent a good deal of the Summer properly learning C# before I got completely obsessed with orchestral libraries and fell down this rabbit hole. Lately I've been writing VST plugins with JUCE rather than coding games, but I'm eager to get back into it.
> 
> Unity is an awesome tool for making games but it's a lot to learn. I like the coding and design aspects of it but I'm sure many would probably find it very difficult to get their head around if they have no programming experience in general.



You sound like a very hand person to know.

I have literally been trying to get a downloadable bloody character controller to just merely look about and couldn't figure it out. Something not compatible.

So instead I thought I'd take a stab at programming a Controller from scratch and I was like a kid at Christmas when I finally got the mouse to look left and right! Loving this!


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> I've been working on one with a buddy for a while, but it's still early days. Unfortunately I don't find the actual work of figuring out Unity/Blender nearly as fun as writing story, discussing gameplay, or experimenting with music direction. And any advantage I thought I might have had by being a software engineer turned out to feel pretty insignificant. But we put in time regularly (however little it may be), and we're making progress.
> 
> I hope at some point, we'll have laid down most of the groundwork and learned most of the things we need to learn, and then making the content will be a blast. It's gonna be a third person stealth game (we're big fans of Metal Gear Solid), and the music will partly attempt to channel an old-school John Carpenter feel.
> 
> ...



Sounds great man. You should definitely stop procrastinating and make an amazing game instead!


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## jeremiahpena (Oct 15, 2020)

In my free time I've been making a 2D sidescroller where you control a 4 legged vehicle traversing a strange surreal landscape. Doing everything from art to programming to sound to music.









And some clips:


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## darcvision (Oct 15, 2020)

before i become composer, i start developing game using RPG Maker VX, and learn how to create pixel art, and then gamemaker studio and unity. RPG Maker VX is easy to use but somehow i'm stucked because i'm suck at programming and they're using different language (RPG Maker VX = Ruby, Game Maker Studio (GML), Unity (C#). after that, my friend suggested me to learn to use DAW (FL Studio) and i've been hooked ever since. my friend also let me to compose music for their game and we did showcase on a local game event


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## jononotbono (Oct 15, 2020)

jeremiahpena said:


> In my free time I've been making a 2D sidescroller where you control a 4 legged vehicle traversing a strange surreal landscape. Doing everything from art to programming to sound to music.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Looks and sounds great man!

Starting to think there should be a small Games sub forum on VI-C!


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## El Buhdai (Oct 15, 2020)

I'm actually in college studying game design. Unity is very easy once you get the hang of it. While it can often be more difficult to do programming for games, programming in Unity specifically is much easier than writing code from scratch in any IDE I've used. Much easier to avoid syntax errors and weird language issues.

I have a project due on the 18th that I'm currently developing a drag-and-drop inventory system for, as well as basic enemies and an AI companion.

I can assure you it'll take quite some time to get good at game development, even in an engine like Unity. I'm 4 games in and slowly seeing improvement in my coding, problem-solving, and game mechanics. It takes a lot of time, and is arguably even more difficult than composing.

But stick with it and you'll see improvements. You'll begin building systems and mechanics that you know you couldn't have built just a few weeks or months ago, and the sense of satisfaction that brings is indescribable. You get something similar from doing something great with your music, but it's not quite the same.

My ultimate goal is to solo dev an entire game. I've been composing since I was 16, doing pixel art since I was 14 or 15, and programming since 19, so I feel that it's a natural thing to pursue given all of my hobbies.


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## jononotbono (Oct 16, 2020)

So after 2 days I've got the start of something.

In a World. MY World...


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## MartinH. (Oct 16, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Starting to think there should be a small Games sub forum on VI-C!



We already have way too many forums imho. But I think a general thread for gamedev and a general thread for all kinds of non-interactive visual art (paintings, drawings, sculptures, animations, etc.) in the offtopic forum would be very cool. I've seen a couple people mention digital painting, but very few ever posted anything.




El Buhdai said:


> Unity is very easy once you get the hang of it.



Looking at the Unity forum it seems like a lot of people are super frustrated with how it's been developing the recent years.




El Buhdai said:


> It takes a lot of time, and is arguably even more difficult than composing.



If you're going by "reaching a standard that will satisfy the average consumer", there's not much to argue about gamedev being waaaaay harder imho. People still "like" the average "epic" track that someone knocked out in two weeks, but will complain about many big gamedev projects that teams of well trained professionals worked on for years. I find gamedev to be ridiculously hard, if you have the ambition to satisfy a typical jaded gamer.


@jeremiahpena: great art style!



shponglefan said:


> I did a lot of amateur game development back in the 80's and 90's. Taught myself a half-dozen programming languages in the process.
> 
> Earlier this year I dipped back into it and got started with Godot working on a Frogger clone. It was mainly an excuse to start learning how to do pixel art (which is a lot more nuanced than people give it credit for).




That looks super polished, well done! Pixelart really is a lot more work than it looks like.
How are you liking Godot? I've read a bit of the documentation, but it seemed like I would be fighting habbits and expectations from using Unity _a lot_. I wasn't entirely convinced it's worth switching. I don't have any concrete plans for a 2D game anyway.

If anyone else is looking to do pixelart, I stumbled over a pretty good educational channel for this a while ago:








Brandon James Greer


Hello There! My name's Brandon and I make pictures out of tiny squares and post them online for fun! I love going into the technical aspects and design choic...




www.youtube.com


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## mybadmemory (Oct 16, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I'm thinking about making an open world rpg sci-fi comedy adventure set in my world.



That would usually require hundreds of people over several years. I’d recommend starting out with something closer to the scope of flappy bird for your first one! :D


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## El Buhdai (Oct 16, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Looking at the Unity forum it seems like a lot of people are super frustrated with how it's been developing the recent years.



There are some issues for sure. Here are a couple off the top of my head:

- The odd inconsistencies between Rigidbody and CharacterController implementations (long story short, both have very strange tradeoffs that make it much more difficult than it could be to create write a character controller regardless of which one you choose)
- The Render Pipeline issue where you can't switch between any of the pipelines in a non-destructive manner, as well as the general fragmentation of so much core functionality. To name just a few examples, built in Input, rendering, and UI solutions are all legacy at this point and they recommend you to use their new "preview" packages for all of these features instead of the ones that come with Unity. And there are more of these fragmented features too.

But in my opinion none of that really matters all that much. Why? Because if someone like me who isn't a math, physics, and programming genius wants to make a game, I don't have spend weeks learning OpenGL to render a single triangle and then engineer my own render pipeline. I don't have to spend more weeks learning about quaternions, vectors, eulers, and physics to create a good physics engine. I don't have to write a level editor, or parse input from key presses. I don't have to create my own version of Unity's Update() function, which is a godsend for real-time processing. The list goes on and on.

All I have to do as an average guy is learn the syntax to use all of Unity's core engine functionality, and I can start developing. To me, that's a gift. People can complain about it if they want, but the reality is that everyone complaining about Unity is using it because they can't or don't want to write their own game engine, which is just as much of a challenge as developing an actual game, if not harder.

If game designers have been building game engines from scratch for decades to bring their creations to life, I should be able to tolerate having to rewrite a few of Unity's systems to better suit my needs.


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## FinGael (Oct 16, 2020)

I used to do my own little games with Basic, mainly on my MSX, in the 80s. The idea of a little comeback is really tempting, but the truth is that I am in a situtation where I have too much on my desk already.


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## MartinH. (Oct 16, 2020)

El Buhdai said:


> There are some issues for sure. Here are a couple off the top of my head:
> 
> - The odd inconsistencies between Rigidbody and CharacterController implementations (long story short, both have very strange tradeoffs that make it much more difficult than it could be to create write a character controller regardless of which one you choose)
> - The Render Pipeline issue where you can't switch between any of the pipelines in a non-destructive manner, as well as the general fragmentation of so much core functionality. To name just a few examples, built in Input, rendering, and UI solutions are all legacy at this point and they recommend you to use their new "preview" packages for all of these features instead of the ones that come with Unity. And there are more of these fragmented features too.
> ...



Oh yeah, for sure! Rolling your own engine isn't the alternative I had in mind. It's only a question whether to pick Unity or another Engine like Godot or UE4, depending on what you want to achieve. I'd still pick Unity, but for the reasons you mentioned, Unity doesn't feel like it's on a healthy upwards trajectory. And they seemingly dump a lot of the responsibility on the community via the assetstore seller ecosystem, while also not doing enough to make the job of those people easier. So much stuff breaks with Unity- and package updates, that the providers of 3rd party solutions for lacking core functionality have to play catch up all the time. Not that other Engines don't have any of those problems, but I find it hard to be optimistic about Unity's future. Definitely cool it's there as an option at all and no one is preventing us from just using one old version and sticking with it, but it just feels like a lot of potential is being wasted there.


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## jononotbono (Oct 16, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> We already have way too many forums imho.



Yeah I don't know about that. Having an area where composers and sound designers can discuss middleware software, audio implementation, sound design, and video game composition could be great. It's so different to talking about scoring for film or TV and it's still music.

But on top of that, a General Making Video Games Discussion section would be pretty excellent. A place where people can share their video games and personal work. Until then I guess I'll be perusing the Unity forums etc.


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## jononotbono (Oct 16, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> That would usually require hundreds of people over several years. I’d recommend starting out with something closer to the scope of flappy bird for your first one! :D



For sure man. But making a small “open world” game is totally doable. Little 20 min story. Tiny map packed with detail is probably more Fun than massive map and nothing to do.

There are some amazing 2D and 3D game packs to get you started and I’ve been watching other people’s games. It’s so creative what you can do! But yeah, starting small is definitely sensible.


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## MartinH. (Oct 16, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Yeah I don't know about that. Having an area where composers and sound designers can discuss middleware software, audio implementation, sound design, and video game composition could be great.



What's keeping you from just making a thread about any of those topics? I'm pretty sure you'll get replies and no one will complain about it not belonging here, even if the forum you post it under isn't an exact fit.
I'd probably post middleware and implementation questions under "working in the industry", sound design under "sound design and fx", and video game composition under "Composition, Orchestration & Technique", where I'm sure a couple threads about composing for games must already be in the archive. I'd be surprised if not. And it would be cool if you make a thread about your own game here (or use this thread, whatever you prefer), you might even get more replies here than on the Unity forum, because you're well known here. I don't think video games need the "legitimization" of getting their own forum, to be discussed here. If there is a sudden influx of game related threads and people flood the member composition forum with threads about their own indie games it would totally make sense to create a dedicated forum for it. But if you add another forum for this now, I doubt it'll see more than the initial 5 or so threads and go largely unused otherwise. I could be wrong of course...


p.s.: one of the best gamedev talks I know: 


It's especially applicable for part-time developers.


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## Akarin (Oct 16, 2020)

I've worked 10+ years as a dev in the game industry. If you have any question, hit me up on FB.


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## jononotbono (Oct 16, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> What's keeping you from just making a thread about any of those topics?



Nothing at all. It's what I do because there is no sub forum for Videogame related stuff



MartinH. said:


> sound design under "sound design and fx",



Yeah, I seem to remember I was one of the people that actually requested a Sound Design Sub Forum  because it's so important and guess what, people actually use it because there are a ton of sound designers. By the looks of it there a few people that make games here but I would bet there are many composers and sound designers that actually work in games doing the music and audio that lurk on VI-C. And you can bet there are many people here that are hobbyists that are interested in video games and working in the business but have no idea how. Perhaps having a subform would be an extremely positive thing and springboard all sorts of people and careers. 

It's clear you are against the idea and I am wondering why? Do you own VI-C? Do you have financial investment in it? Would you have to do any work whatsoever if someone added a new section to the forum? Do you have any investment in it at all? If so, then I understand. If not and the only "investment" you will have is to choose to click on a sub forum and read stuff then why are you against it? You can literally choose not to ever go to the sub forum. It will have zero impact on your life if you choose to not click on it. Just like I never click on the Political Section of VI-C. If it was no more tomorrow, I couldn't care less. But hey, many people love it and post in there daily. It doesn't bother me in the slightest there's a political forum. Why would it? It's just a sub forum. I choose not to go there. It has no impact on my life whatsoever. 

Nevermind. It's all good. Let's just continue as we are and I'll reign in the forum suggestions from this point. And when I have a question say, for example, about horizontal resequencing I'll be sure to post it in the Orchestration section because that's very related.


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## jononotbono (Oct 16, 2020)

Akarin said:


> I've worked 10+ years as a dev in the game industry. If you have any question, hit me up on FB.



Ah man! You are full of surprises! This is brilliant!


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## Nils Neumann (Oct 16, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Yeah I don't know about that. Having an area where composers and sound designers can discuss middleware software, audio implementation, sound design, and video game composition could be great.



Great idea!


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## MartinH. (Oct 16, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> It's clear you are against the idea and I am wondering why? Do you own VI-C? Do you have financial investment in it? Would you have to do any work whatsoever if someone added a new section to the forum? Do you have any investment in it at all? If so, then I understand. If not and the only "investment" you will have is to choose to click on a sub forum and read stuff then why are you against it? You can literally choose not to ever go to the sub forum. It will have zero impact on your life if you choose to not click on it. Just like I never click on the Political Section of VI-C. If it was no more tomorrow, I couldn't care less. But hey, many people love it and post in there daily. It doesn't bother me in the slightest there's a political forum. Why would it? It's just a sub forum. I choose not to go there. It has no impact on my life whatsoever.
> 
> Nevermind. It's all good. Let's just continue as we are and I'll reign in the forum suggestions from this point. And when I have a question say, for example, about horizontal resequencing I'll be sure to post it in the Orchestration section because that's very related.



Ah, I think I did a bad job at communicating why I think that extra sub forum is not better than having all those discussions mixed into the existing forums. Sorry about that!

I _love_ games! Way more than music in fact. I just think the over-compartmentalization of subforums leads to poor engagement. That sound design forum is a good example. I just checked, and there are 9 threads with 0 replies on the first page of the thread listings. I don't think those threads would all have had 0 replies if they had been posted under sample talk for example. They may not belong there, but there are just more eyes on them. If you look at the ratio of threads to messages of all the subforums under "studio production", the sounddesign forum has the lowest ratio of messages per thread. I don't see how I can interpret those numbers as there being an advantage to having that extra subforum vs. having those 168 threads mixed in with the ~22300 threads in sample talk. Nothing against sounddesign! I just don't think it benefits from being a separate subforum, based on how it's being used. If Mike opens a games related subforum tomorrow I'll use it, no problem. I'm just not convinced that the games related discussions themselves will have _any_ benefit from being there. If you think there are people who have interesting things to show/ask/tell related to games, that are currently holding back because there is no subforum that has "games" in the title, then maybe they'd outweigh the downsides and I'd be wrong with my estimate. That's why I asked you what is holding you back from posting all those thread topics that would interest you. 
I didn't intend for this to be such a long discussion, I just tried to explain my reasoning and seemingly did a bad job at it. Anyway, I'm looking forward to more games related discussions with you and the others, no matter if it's in its own subforum or scattered about the existing ones! Peace!


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## mybadmemory (Oct 16, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> For sure man. But making a small “open world” game is totally doable. Little 20 min story. Tiny map packed with detail is probably more Fun than massive map and nothing to do.
> 
> There are some amazing 2D and 3D game packs to get you started and I’ve been watching other people’s games. It’s so creative what you can do! But yeah, starting small is definitely sensible.



Yeah, the smaller the better! That way you'll have a much greater chance of actually finish something, which a whole lot more motivational for the cause of keeping at it, than failing and feeling disheartened. :D

Anyway. I've been in games for around 15 years, so if you have any specific questions I’ll do my best to point you in the right direction!


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## jononotbono (Oct 16, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> Yeah, the smaller the better! That way you'll have a much greater chance of actually finish something, which a whole lot more motivational for the cause of keeping at it, than failing and feeling disheartened. :D
> 
> Anyway. I've been in games for around 15 years, so if you have any specific questions I’ll do my best to point you in the right direction!



Amazing man, Thankyou!


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## Rich4747 (Oct 16, 2020)

hey check out Gaea terrain generator, I have been planning to make a video on that for some time. Its made by quadspinner. Terragen is also another good one.


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## shponglefan (Oct 16, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> That looks super polished, well done! Pixelart really is a lot more work than it looks like.
> How are you liking Godot? I've read a bit of the documentation, but it seemed like I would be fighting habbits and expectations from using Unity _a lot_. I wasn't entirely convinced it's worth switching. I don't have any concrete plans for a 2D game anyway.



Thank you, I appreciate the kind words!

I like Godot so far. It's the first time I've used a game engine; previously I just coded everything from scratch. It's been a welcome change to not have to worry about the nuts and bolts of the engine and just focus on making the game.

If you're going 3D, Unity is probably the better choice right now. At least until the next major version of Godot releases. But for 2D Godot is currently considered the better engine for that, since it has a dedicated 2D engine, unlike Unity.

One thing about Godot though is that it is extremely lightweight. The main engine is only a single executable download and only ~64 mB in size.


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## jeremiahpena (Oct 16, 2020)

I'm making my project in Godot. I've played around with Unity a lot over the years (and a little bit of Unreal, but I don't really like Unreal). Godot is a dream compared to Unity, for 2D at least. The architecture of nodes within nodes is just brilliant when it clicks. It has some rough edges, and I wouldn't use it for a 3D project, but I think it has a good future and being open source is a big benefit.



shponglefan said:


> One thing about Godot though is that it is extremely lightweight. The main engine is only a single executable download and only ~64 mB in size.



I love this about it. From launching Godot to having my project up and ready to work on is ~5 seconds.


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## Andrew Aversa (Oct 16, 2020)

Yep! My other business is Impact Gameworks, which I started as a passion project in 2016. Picked up Unity & C# and shipped Tangledeep in 2018 on PC, and 2019 on Nintendo Switch  Always happy to chat game dev.


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## brek (Oct 16, 2020)

With more time for "research," I've been digging into Unity and C#. I started with a hiking simulator (using the terrain like yours Jono), adding music triggers as the player reaches higher up the mountain.


The coding is definitely a tricky aspect to working with Unity, but there are a lot of resources out there.
I recently tried coding the SFX to "play the changes" using one of the Unity demo projects. 

It's fun to see what kind of licks you can generate, but it's also a little sad to think that my code solos over Giant Steps better than I could after so many years of studying jazz. 

The first one is a more typical example of just one scale throughout.


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## jononotbono (Oct 17, 2020)

El Buhdai said:


> I'm actually in college studying game design. Unity is very easy once you get the hang of it. While it can often be more difficult to do programming for games, programming in Unity specifically is much easier than writing code from scratch in any IDE I've used. Much easier to avoid syntax errors and weird language issues.
> 
> I have a project due on the 18th that I'm currently developing a drag-and-drop inventory system for, as well as basic enemies and an AI companion.
> 
> ...



There's definitely a satisfying feeling getting something to work. For me, no feeling is as great as writing music but this is an amazing change of creative pace and as you say, definitely different. For example, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to import some standard assets that used to be apart of Unity but now you have to add them and they are basically for older versions (the importing is easy - debugging compiling errors is not - for a begginer) and so many tutorials have these assets and say "just drag this basic character controller in and we can get going". So every time I imported it, it would make things incompatible (Unity seems to be extremely picky about versions you use with certain packages and assets), completely filling the project with bugs and errors so it has forced me over the past few days to watch tutorials on C# and I have successfully scripted a Player Controller script, Look around, jump, fire a Gun, Use Raycasting to hit targets, apply a muzzle flash, use a Grenade, time a grenade, implement an explosion, implement destructible elements (using prefab crates in multiple pieces).

Looking at the Unity Asset Store, there are so many amazing things for free and what can be bought, stuff that totally speeds up development. I'm definitely hooked and just applied for a student account so I can buy a few assets. There's a player controller pack that allows you to seamlessly switch between FPS and 3rd person and it looks really good. And would take a noob like me a long time so stuff like that is worth buying.

But yeah, until I get that student discount, I'm going to continue learning how to script a few other things. Today is all about creating a weapon system, being able to switch to different weapons and possibly finding some characters to play around with and uncover what new depths of ignorance I have in the Game World. Maybe also put a JONOWOOD sign up in the hills too.  

Too much fun!


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## jononotbono (Oct 17, 2020)

brek said:


> With more time for "research," I've been digging into Unity and C#. I started with a hiking simulator (using the terrain like yours Jono), adding music triggers as the player reaches higher up the mountain.
> 
> 
> The coding is definitely a tricky aspect to working with Unity, but there are a lot of resources out there.
> ...




It's great man. So creative. Loving the vibe.

Not that you've asked for any feedback but I would definitely use FMOD to create variations on the breath sound as the character jumps. Or just record/create some variations. Depends on the memory footprint I guess. It's suffering from the Machine Gun effect and as there's a lot of jumping in the game, that would ear fatigue quickly. You probably already know this and I'll be quiet as it's likely just a play test to try stuff out!

Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to do a course in C#. It's got me fascinated going through tutorials and some of it is clicking but other stuff is just going way over my head because I just don't know the language. There's something very satisfying with writing a bit of script and then seeing the action in the game actually working and learning the language is going to be a lot better than being a hack at it. Wondering how long it takes to learn and be proficient in? I'm also wondering why game engines use different scripting languages. Unreal Engine uses a different language to Unity. Why? Once you learn one language, is it easy or extremely difficult to learn another one?


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## Cheezus (Oct 17, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I'm also wondering why game engines use different scripting languages. Unreal Engine uses a different language to Unity. Why? Once you learn one language, is it easy or extremely difficult to learn another one?


Unreal Engine uses C++ because the engine itself was built on C++ and I guess they found it easier to just extend the native code for scripting than to integrate a different language like Unity does. They do have something called Blueprints which is a form of visual scripting so you don't always have to write code yourself to get things working.

Unity was actually also built on C++ but it uses C# as a scripting language to provide an easier experience for users since C# is a much "safer" and easier to understand language than C++. I appreciate that Unity uses C# because I find working with C# a very pleasant experience compared to most other languages.

Once you learn one language you can adapt fairly easily to others, at least in terms of object-oriented languages. They all follow generally the same set of design principles and it'll be easy to Google "How do I do this C# thing, but in C++/Java."

That being said Unity is kind of its own thing, it's centered around Components and a giant class called MonoBehaviour which dictates what you can and can't do in your code, which makes it very different from writing a normal program in C# or C++.


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## Andrew Aversa (Oct 17, 2020)

You can write 99% of your game in pure C# using Unity. You don't have to use many Monobehaviours at all - although it depends on the kind of game you're making. For example, any data structures can quite easily be pure C# classes. I use Unity mainly for UI, rendering, and audio, while all the gameplay logic lives inside my own classes and methods.


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## brek (Oct 17, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Not that you've asked for any feedback but I would definitely use FMOD to create variations on the breath sound as the character jumps. Or just record/create some variations. Depends on the memory footprint I guess. It's suffering from the Machine Gun effect and as there's a lot of jumping in the game, that would ear fatigue quickly. You probably already know this and I'll be quiet as it's likely just a play test to try stuff out!


Awesome, thanks for looking. I didn't do any character sounds - those just came with the project and I left them as is - but, you can also implement those jump sound round robins (with pitch randomization) in Unity and C# without going to FMOD.


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## Will Blackburn (Oct 17, 2020)

Was doing environmental design in Unity and then was pursuaded to try it in UE. I now kinda prefer it and have warmed to the Blueprints system quite fast. Plus Epic Games literally gives away £200 worth of new marketplace content each month which is pretty amazing. Then all the Quixels stuff is free to use.


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## jononotbono (Oct 17, 2020)

brek said:


> Awesome, thanks for looking. I didn't do any character sounds - those just came with the project and I left them as is - but, you can also implement those jump sound round robins (with pitch randomization) in Unity and C# without going to FMOD.



Ah right! Great! I've not done anything with Audio in Unity yet. Only with FMOD and no Unity. So that's going to be very interesting getting into that. I'm just trying to figure out other things like going from 3rd person to 1st person


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## jononotbono (Oct 17, 2020)

Cheezus said:


> Unreal Engine uses C++ because the engine itself was built on C++ and I guess they found it easier to just extend the native code for scripting than to integrate a different language like Unity does. They do have something called Blueprints which is a form of visual scripting so you don't always have to write code yourself to get things working.
> 
> Unity was actually also built on C++ but it uses C# as a scripting language to provide an easier experience for users since C# is a much "safer" and easier to understand language than C++. I appreciate that Unity uses C# because I find working with C# a very pleasant experience compared to most other languages.
> 
> ...



I would only have time to learn 1 and that's a push so it would definitely in C# as that's what Unity is in and that's what my MFA uses so I'm sure it would be a good start.


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## jononotbono (Oct 19, 2020)

Making a game is so involved. Loving every step though!

In a World.
My World.
JonoWorld...


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## MartinH. (Oct 19, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> So every time I imported it, it would make things incompatible (Unity seems to be extremely picky about versions you use with certain packages and assets), completely filling the project with bugs and errors so it has forced me over the past few days to watch tutorials on C# and I have successfully scripted a Player Controller script, Look around, jump, fire a Gun, Use Raycasting to hit targets, apply a muzzle flash, use a Grenade, time a grenade, implement an explosion, implement destructible elements (using prefab crates in multiple pieces).



That's some great progress! You seem to wrap your head around all this new stuff pretty quick!




jononotbono said:


> Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to do a course in C#. It's got me fascinated going through tutorials and some of it is clicking but other stuff is just going way over my head because I just don't know the language. There's something very satisfying with writing a bit of script and then seeing the action in the game actually working and learning the language is going to be a lot better than being a hack at it. Wondering how long it takes to learn and be proficient in?



The C# Yellow Book often gets recommended to learn C# basics: 


http://www.csharpcourse.com/



The first programming language is by far the hardest. The next will be dramatically easier. When you switch engines, the biggest time sink won't be learning a different programming language, it's learning the different design paradigms and the new API (and all the weird quirks of the new engine and its workflow). The API is all the engine specific stuff in the codebase, like Monobehaviours, Rigidbody components, the Physics class, etc. etc.. Since you're making a 3D game, I recommend you check out the class reference for the Vector3 and float classes in the Unity documentation. They have a couple very cool helper functions that aren't super obvious to find, but very powerful. E.g. this one:








Unity - Scripting API: Vector3.SmoothDamp







docs.unity3d.com





And since you're well familiar with automation envelopes, you'll probably get a lot of use out of AnimationCurve.Evaluate(). The idea is to assing an AnimationCurve object as a public variable in a MonoBehaviour component, use the inspector to visually edit the curve, and in the code of your MonoBehaviour component you use myCurveVariableName.Evaluate(someTimeRelatedVariable) to get a float value back as if you were getting a Y value from a curve diagram by inputting an X value. For example I used this to make a fire prefab that burns for a while and then gets smaller before it stops burning. Or you could do some very simple procedural animation with it. Like floating pickups that hover up and down in a smooth motion etc..


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## Dima Lanski (Oct 19, 2020)

Surprised that nobody mentioned Brackeys yet, it's probably the best channel to learn Unity, C# and game development in general, especially for beginners. Here's a couple of useful playlists:





Much more of that on the channel itself:








Brackeys


Learn how to make video games! Top-quality game development tutorials on everything from Unity and programming to game design. If you want to become a develo...




www.youtube.com





Also, I'm a bit of an expert in C#, been programming in it for 15 years, so hit me up with a PM if you have any questions. Glad to help a fellow composer and game maker


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## jononotbono (Oct 19, 2020)

Dima Lanski said:


> Surprised that nobody mentioned Brackeys yet, it's probably the best channel to learn Unity, C# and game development in general, especially for beginners. Here's a couple of useful playlists:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Man, I found Brackey's about 4 days ago. He's amazing. Learned a lot fromhis channel already and it's what made me realise learning C# is pretty essential because so much of the scripting language I don't understand and occasionally there are things I do understand and it's down to watching his videos.

Typical that I find his channel and about a month ago he stops his channel! Such a shame.


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## jononotbono (Oct 25, 2020)

My progress so far...


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## Manaberry (Oct 25, 2020)

I used to be a material artist (hobbyist) and environment artist. It was a lot of fun making textures and building worlds.





I'm using that energy now for some of my music trailer / art cover.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/6aAnox

Enjoy the trip man! Would gonna love it


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## jononotbono (Oct 25, 2020)

Manaberry said:


> I used to be a material artist (hobbyist) and environment artist. It was a lot of fun making textures and building worlds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





That's brilliant!


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## jononotbono (Oct 29, 2020)

Latest little progress report...

When It Snows... It Falls? In JonoWORLD!


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## jononotbono (Nov 4, 2020)

Left or Right? In JonoWORLD, YOU get to choose YOUR destiny! 😂


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## jononotbono (Nov 5, 2020)

In JonoWORLD... Home is where you make it!


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## jononotbono (Nov 21, 2020)

I guess it's better to be safe than sorry. Fear not. JonoWORLD is absolutely Covid free. Facemasks all round. 😂


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## MarcusD (Nov 21, 2020)

This reminds me of the days when one would use to sit and build maps in Unreal engine purely to watch limp NPCs fall from the sky into pits of deadly obstacles. Good old ragdoll physics, provided hours of entertainment...

Hope you turn this into a full blown series Jono!


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## jononotbono (Nov 22, 2020)

MarcusD said:


> This reminds me of the days when one would use to sit and build maps in Unreal engine purely to watch limp NPCs fall from the sky into pits of deadly obstacles. Good old ragdoll physics, provided hours of entertainment...
> 
> Hope you turn this into a full blown series Jono!



Well, I am determined to make a game. When I become proficient in all this stuff I may make a few videos on this stuff. Especially the music and audio implementation side of things.

Anyway, here’s last night activities...

Whether you're out and about hunting or fishing, casually looting a neighbour's house or you just fancy a spot of dogging. Rest assured, there are many isolated regions of scenic beauty to explore in JonoWORLD. Just don't get caught with your pants down as you never know what's lurking in the woods! 😂


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## Thomas A Booker (Nov 22, 2020)

I'm a C# developer for my day job and composer/Unity developer by night.

Happy to help anyone here in need with C# questions


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## MarcusD (Nov 22, 2020)

Can already imagine the reviews 😄

"Make sure you double up on underpants, because JonoWORLD will have you throughly filling them frozen excrement at ANY moment.

10/10 IGN"

If this can become a multiplayer game it would be epic. Be fun to follow your progress on it!


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## jononotbono (Nov 22, 2020)

MarcusD said:


> Can already imagine the reviews 😄
> 
> "Make sure you double up on underpants, because JonoWORLD will have you throughly filling them frozen excrement at ANY moment.
> 
> ...





I actually created a Discord server and it's small beginnings and a few people have joined it but I had the idea of creating a Discord server just to actually document this journey from start to finish. Which is what I've been doing. There's also loads of other channels which revolve around music but I wanted a place where I can upload screenshots and links to videos and not have the information lost as it's already been an interesting trip and a lot of head scratching but I love it. It's just going to take a lot of time as I'm always so busy with my music work etc. I'm going back to England in December so I plan on locking myself in my Music Lab and working on this stuff even more so than I have been doing!

Multiplayer. Hmmm. I wasn't planning on that but never say never. It's a serious amount of work making a game that's 3d and It's likely to be a semi open world not a full open world. I just dislike huge open world games that don't have a lot to do in them so I would much rather have a smaller world but full of things to do and player interaction. It's definitely going to be a story driven game and I've already got a good friend to do the voice acting for one of the main characters. Looking into how I can affordably Mo-Cap myself as well. Might as well not do things by halves!


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## jononotbono (Nov 25, 2020)

I think it’s fair to say that I may need to start hiring a gardener! JonoWORLD is growing out of control! 😂


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## jononotbono (Nov 28, 2020)

It's always important to up one's game on a daily basis so JonoWORLD is about to get a rather delightful textural make over compared to, well, I don't like to talk about it these days but the "old World" that I had the mishap of accidentally deleting! 😂

Textures. Before and after...


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## jononotbono (Nov 29, 2020)

First secret nudist area about to open in JonoWORLD. Invitations in the post! 😂


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## jononotbono (Nov 30, 2020)

Looking for your great escape? An adventure into the wild unknown? Well pack your lunch and head off into JonoWORLD! Explore one of many vast and stunning unprotected regional parks, such as Bareback Mountain for the journey of your lifetime!


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## jononotbono (Dec 1, 2020)

And last night was my first dipping of toes into learning about volumetric lighting...

A rather delightful sunrise captured before setting off into the foothills of BearBack Mountain! 😂


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## hessproject (Dec 1, 2020)

Software engineering is my day job, but I've been dabbling in Unity in my spare time working on a turn based RPG. Will probably never actually see the light of day but it's been a fun exercise and a welcome break from the enterprise style code I spend the day working on. Happy to answer any code or tech career type questions


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## Dima Lanski (Dec 1, 2020)

@jononotbono, looking at the kind of world you are making, I think, you might consider trying Unreal Engine. It's more suited for this kind of environments and graphical fidelity. It's a professional grade engine, but also free for non-commercial use and small businesses. And it includes Quixel Megascans for free, which is a set of very high fidelity assets. Overall, it's much easier to get high fidelity image out of the box with UE4, than with Unity.

The only downside is that it uses C++ for coding, which may be harder for beginners. But then, you might not need to write code at all, since it has an integrated visual programming system -- Blueprints. They are less powerful than a "real" programming language, but is also much easier to understand. It should be enough for your needs at the moment.

Finally Epic gives away a set of free assets each month, and this time it includes this beautiful forest, which reminded me of your world https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/product/realistic-forest-pack

Also, if you haven't already, here's a channel where I get my news on game development, might be useful for you as well: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr-5TdGkKszdbboXXsFZJTQ


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## jononotbono (Dec 1, 2020)

Dima Lanski said:


> @jononotbono, looking at the kind of world you are making, I think, you might consider trying Unreal Engine. It's more suited for this kind of environments and graphical fidelity. It's a professional grade engine, but also free for non-commercial use and small businesses. And it includes Quixel Megascans for free, which is a set of very high fidelity assets. Overall, it's much easier to get high fidelity image out of the box with UE4, than with Unity.
> 
> The only downside is that it uses C++ for coding, which may be harder for beginners. But then, you might not need to write code at all, since it has an integrated visual programming system -- Blueprints. They are less powerful than a "real" programming language, but is also much easier to understand. It should be enough for your needs at the moment.
> 
> ...



I would love to have started using UE but I'm kinda of invested in Unity at the minute. I've bought a few assets and tools to help me get going. I'm also doing an MFA in Video Game Music and Audio and that course is tied to Unity (from day one I have always asked about UE because lets play a game of "Which AAA titles have got released on UE vs Unity") and because my job out here in NY is just relentless, I just don't have time to learn two engines. It's something I may consider at some point if I get to a point of where I become competent this stuff. I will want to learn coding at some point but there are various tools available that mean I can get the ball rolling and not get weighed down with frying my brain and getting depressed that I'm not achieving anything. If that makes sense.

Funny enough, those screenshots are actually using some Megascan textures. Those images were from a test of just using textures. Those rocks are not 3d game objects. And to be able to achieve this kind of detail really excites me. It wasn't long before I sought after a few things that don't look like shit and Megascans is one of the few places where I instantly could tell the quality. If I had known what I now know after the past 6 weeks, I would have moved to UE just for the Megascan thing alone. However, I'll just see how this goes and it's my hope to get to a point where a game shapes up to a point where it stirs a bit of interest and I'll find some like minded people that wanna work on it with me. And if not, I'll do everything (I already have a story in the works and a good friend will voice act one of the main characters - I'm gonna voice act the main character as it will fun to do). But that's a long way off yet. Either way, I'm now confident that I can create something that doesn't look like Pac Man so I'm already feeling quite positive about it. It's without a doubt the most creative thing I've ever tried to do since music and now I realise, no amount of bitching about audio problems will ever surmount to the nightmare it is trying to make a game. But hey, there's nothing like a challenge and my first game is not going to be a 2d game or anything like that. Not my scene.


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## jononotbono (Dec 17, 2020)

And finally, after a short hiatus, JonoWORLD is back open again! Thank goodness! And of course, where else would our first adventure take us?! It had to be the foothills of BearBack Mountain! We all know going BearBack is always a risk but we have to admit, it's to die for. Literally! 😂


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## synergy543 (Dec 17, 2020)

Why did you put a rabbit in the bear's path? 
That's no contest. And the bear will Spring upon it in Winter?
Its game-over! (for the wabbit)
DAT's all FOLKS!


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## jononotbono (Jan 18, 2021)

In JonoWORLD, everyone in this neck of the woods know the saying!

Red Sky at Night...
Leads To a BearBack Mountain Delight!


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## Manaberry (Jan 18, 2021)

Where are the dragons, unicorns, and Sauron's eye?

Looks like a lot of fun


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## jononotbono (Jan 18, 2021)

Manaberry said:


> Where are the dragons, unicorns, and Sauron's eye?
> 
> Looks like a lot of fun


Can’t reveal too much at this stage!


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## visiblenoise (Jan 18, 2021)

Damn that looks really good! How much of it is tools/assets you had to pay for?

The art side of my project basically hasn't been touched yet because I've never done visual art and it seems really daunting. Any words of encouragement?


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## jononotbono (Jan 18, 2021)

visiblenoise said:


> Damn that looks really good! How much of it is tools/assets you had to pay for?
> 
> The art side of my project basically hasn't been touched yet because I've never done visual art and it seems really daunting. Any words of encouragement?


What’s stopping you? We only live once. Who cares if you haven’t done any visual art before. Get yourself straight to one of the many asset stores and download one of many free vegetation packs, get yourself some trees, buildings, props, whatever it is that is in your vision and start building your game. Buy assets, use free ones. Use anything and everything to make a game happen. You don’t think Sam and Dan Houser of Rockstar games sit there all day making street lamps and car models! No. They hire people to do that stuff and although their end result is custom, the process is no different than using assets from a store. And you can learn to customise anything you buy. Or treat it all like placeholder stuff and then replace all of it when you have a budget to do so.

There’s always an exception to a rule but we all buy the same reverbs, plugins, DAWs and hardware etc And I’m sure if we all could, we would sit in our labs coding a new custom compressor that no one else has but the reality is that we buy assets for music. It’s what we do and there’s no difference.

Now stop making excuses and fly like digital wind to a store and make the best game the world has ever seen!

Seriously though, go for it man!


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## visiblenoise (Jan 18, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> What’s stopping you? We only live once. Who cares if you haven’t done any visual art before. Get yourself straight to one of the many asset stores and download one of many free vegetation packs, get yourself some trees, buildings, props, whatever it is that is in your vision and start building your game. Buy assets, use free ones. Use anything and everything to make a game happen. You don’t think Sam and Dan Houser of Rockstar games sit there all day making street lamps and car models! No. They hire people to do that stuff and although their end result is custom, the process is no different than using assets from a store. And you can learn to customise anything you buy. Or treat it all like placeholder stuff and then replace all of it when you have a budget to do so.
> 
> There’s always an exception to a rule but we all buy the same reverbs, plugins, DAWs and hardware etc And I’m sure if we all could, we would sit in our labs coding a new custom compressor that no one else has but the reality is that we buy assets for music. It’s what we do and there’s no difference.
> 
> ...


Thanks dude, that worked for me, hope it sticks! The parallel to music production is interesting - I guess I feel fine with that because I already know a bit about how to "customize."

Just checked out your youtube channel - I think it's about time for some more jonoworld updates there.


----------



## MA-Simon (Jan 18, 2021)

Looking great!
How much do you know about HDRP textures?

I made an asset pack for Unity about a year ago... but I have NO idea if it is set up correctly. If I used subsurface scattering correctly. If my lods are setup/generated correctly. It's really frustrating. There is no real "easy for 3d artists explained" documentation or help out there. Forum users are generally unhelpfull. This has really put me off doing more asset work packs...









The Grand Caverns - Dripstone | 3D Dungeons | Unity Asset Store


Elevate your workflow with the The Grand Caverns - Dripstone asset from MALACHISTO. Find this & other Dungeons options on the Unity Asset Store.




assetstore.unity.com




This is my stuff. I should really update it eventually, but I have absolutely no idea how it's supposed to be wired up.


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## jononotbono (Jan 18, 2021)

visiblenoise said:


> Thanks dude, that worked for me, hope it sticks! The parallel to music production is interesting - I guess I feel fine with that because I already know a bit about how to "customize."
> 
> Just checked out your youtube channel - I think it's about time for some more jonoworld updates there.


I’ve been meaning to make some more You Tube videos on this adventure but up until yesterday it’s been difficult getting Unity working as I’ve been getting my old Mac Pro to work with Thunderbolt. Yesterday I installed a lot of stuff for Unity and it’s time consuming making sure everything works and is console error free. I’ve also, weirdly just got a lot of music to write and that takes priority. I’ll definitely do a video on progress so far and hopefully a few things on creating an environment. Eventually some stuff on middleware implementation as well.


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## jononotbono (Sep 27, 2021)

I know I've neglected JonoWORLD for a while but this is ridiculous. The whole place has gone to wrack and ruin. Literally.


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 27, 2021)

Looks like Inception meets the Walking Dead. I want to go there and fight some zombies.


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## Loïc D (Sep 27, 2021)

Hmmm, Covid stroke JONOWorld hard…


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## jononotbono (Sep 27, 2021)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Looks like Inception meets the Walking Dead. I want to go there and fight some zombies.


It's hard work building a world. I'm especially looking forward to implementing audio and music but first things first, I think this lavish resort needs a nightclub 😂


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## doctoremmet (Sep 27, 2021)

It looks like Far Cry 7: Isle of Man VS Isle of Wight edition.


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## jononotbono (Sep 27, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> It looks like Far Cry 7: Isle of Man VS Isle of Wight edition.


That's why people have to wear a mask. 😂


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## MartinH. (Sep 27, 2021)

Funny, I was just yesterday thinking about making a new thread here to ask a gamedev question to the hand full of devs that we have here, but I'll just post it here: 

Which Engine would you rather recommend for a 2D pixelart plattformer _from your personal experience_? Unity or Godot? I know much more about Unity, but I also know that I dislike its 2D workflow and overall the Engine seems to have turned rather buggy and frustrating to use in recent years. Some people seem to prefer Godot for 2D. But some of the programming paradigms in Godot seem so different than in Unity, I'm sure there'd be some unpleasant friction with unlearning what I'm used to too. Maybe someone here tried both?





jononotbono said:


> I know I've neglected JonoWORLD for a while but this is ridiculous. The whole place has gone to wrack and ruin. Literally.



Looks awesome, happy to see you're still working on it!


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## jononotbono (Sep 27, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Looks awesome, happy to see you're still working on it!


I know you can make 2D games in Unity. I'm just no authority on giving advice on that.

Yeah, I would love to work on this full time but there just isn't enough time in the day to do everything. So this is probably my very first hobby that I've loved. Just seeing where it leads to at the minute.


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## mybadmemory (Sep 27, 2021)

I'm obviously biased but i also think you should move to UE and Quixel Megascans.


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## jononotbono (Sep 27, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I'm obviously biased but i also think you should move to UE and Quixel Megascans.


I would love to but I'm studying an MFA in Videogame music and Audio and they use Unity so I'm a little bit scared with how much time that would take to learn.

Also, I have a lot of paid assets I bought for Unity (before I knew of UE and Megascans)... The screen shots above actually aren't using and Megascans Textures or 3d Objects but they will be because for the past 12 months I've been buying everything from Megascans (I know it comes free with UE). Massive stock pile and love the bridge plugin! So amazing!

If the paid assets I have could be transferred then I would seriously consider it. Go on, convince me! Tell me the pros and cons of why I should rinse more of my life and change direct to UE! 😂

Also, why are you biased? Are you a game developer?


----------



## Pier (Sep 27, 2021)

I've been working in software for the past 20 years. For a couple of years I worked on interactive stuff for museums and marketing events which included small video games. I mostly used Adobe Air (Flash) but I also used Unity, Haxe (OpenFL), and C++ stuff like Cinder and OF.

Jono if you're happy with Unity, keep using that. UE is great and all, but unless you're doing stuff that needs to push a ton of triangles with complex materials and shaders (eg: AAA stuff) it shouldn't really matter. Honestly, the engine isn't as important as other factors such as: game design, art, UI design, story, music, sound, gameplay, etc.

If I was starting a new indie game today I would probably use the free engine Godot. It has become very popular in the indie world and it's probably as powerful as Unity.









Free and open source 2D and 3D game engine


Godot provides a huge set of common tools, so you can just focus on making your game without reinventing the wheel.




godotengine.org


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 28, 2021)

JonoWORLD - A Perfect Day in Jonobli Bay 😂


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## Pier (Sep 28, 2021)

JonoWORLD needs more FPS!


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

Pier said:


> JonoWORLD needs more FPS!


I think my next investment is going to be a new PC build. It pains me not having this in HDRP. I'm thinking next year will result in a Threadripper and a 3090. That should hopefully do the trick 😂


----------



## marclawsonmusic (Sep 29, 2021)

I thought of Jonoworld when I saw this headline. Do dinos have a place there?


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

Well I was thinking there will be a side plot and the protagonist finds a famous composer that he loves who has locked himself in his studio, waiting for things to blow over. However, the composer is depressed and can't write music anymore. The protagonist couldn't live with himself if he doesn't at least try to help him so he embarks on an epic adventure in search of a mythical lost Holy Midi Pack and if found, the composer gets their crown back and is on top of their game with new and fresh and exciting ideas. Bonus points if the protagonist finds any other composers and manages to steal their midi packs without them noticing.

I guess Dinosaurs could fit in there well 😂


----------



## mopsiflopsi (Sep 29, 2021)

Hey @jononotbono. Professional Unity dev here. Shoot me a DM if you have specific questions.

I'll quickly mention though: aiming for one's dream game with the first project is the equivalent of aiming to write a great symphony as your first track. For anybody on the same path, I'd recommend making lots and lots of small, shitty, but complete games first, and building up your skills and experience before attempting your dream game.


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> Hey @jononotbono. Professional Unity dev here. Shoot me a DM if you have specific questions.
> 
> I'll quickly mention though: aiming for one's dream game with the first project is the equivalent of aiming to write a great symphony as your first track. For anybody on the same path, I'd recommend making lots and lots of small, shitty, but complete games first, and building up your skills and experience before attempting your dream game.


Ah man, nice to meet you. Everything is so daunting but I'm determined to get good at this stuff. It started just because I wanted to understand Audio implementation on a deep level but then I got sucked into the vortex and love it!


----------



## mopsiflopsi (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> Ah man, nice to meet you. Everything is so daunting but I'm determined to get good at this stuff. It started just because I wanted to understand Audio implementation on a deep level but then I got sucked into the vortex and love it!


On the audio side make sure to check out FMOD and WWise. Standard Unity audio tools are not great for anything beyond the most basic stuff.


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> On the audio side make sure to check out FMOD and WWise. Standard Unity audio tools are not great for anything beyond the most basic stuff.


I'm actually studying an MFA in Music and Audio for Videogames. It's what led me down this path but instead of just stopping at the audio side of things, I took a look under the hood of Unity and instantly loved it. Probably will try out UE when I have got better. So far I've been using FMod but I am about to learn to Wwise


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

@mopsiflopsi I'm really starting to think I need to learn C#. Can you recommend to me how I should go about learning C#? Any courses that are great for beginners?


----------



## mopsiflopsi (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> I'm actually studying an MFA in Music and Audio for Videogames. It's what led me down this path but instead of just stopping at the audio side of things, I took a look under the hood of Unity and instantly loved it. Probably will try out UE when I have got better. So far I've been using FMod but I am about to learn to Wwise


I was in the market for a sound designer for a project very recently (may still be, we'll see), and it's big bonus when the designer knows their way around a game engine and the audio middleware. I'd also recommend getting familiar with version control systems like Plastic SCM (very popular with and owned by Unity) or Perforce or SVN, etc. I love it when a contractor already knows the workflow and doesn't need hand-holding.


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> I was in the market for a sound designer for a project very recently (may still be, we'll see), and it's big bonus when the designer knows their way around a game engine and the audio middleware. I'd also recommend getting familiar with version control systems like Plastic SCM (very popular with and owned by Unity) or Perforce or SVN, etc. I love it when a contractor already knows the workflow and doesn't need hand-holding.


Interesting because I am using Git-Hub for version control for a Touchscreen controller I'm in middle of creating. I'll definitely check out Plastic SCM, Perforce and SVN. I've been wondering how teams work together like this especially with version control as it's not something I've ever had to do yet! Thanks man!


----------



## mopsiflopsi (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> @mopsiflopsi I'm really starting to think I need to learn C#. Can you recommend to me how I should go about learning C#? Any courses that are great for beginners?


It's been a long while since I was in your shoes, but I've heard from other people that Codecademy offers good courses for introductory stuff (and I think it's free). 








Learn C# | Codecademy


Learn Microsoft's popular C# programming language, used to make websites, mobile apps, video games, VR, and more.




www.codecademy.com





I wouldn't go past the beginner courses, though. Once you get the basic syntax and concepts under your belt, it becomes more about knowing the Unity Engine API itself rather than fine points of C# wizardry. At that point you can switch to learning by doing, and checking out gaming focused programming sources. GameDev.net, Gamasutra, etc.


----------



## chrishurn (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> @mopsiflopsi I'm really starting to think I need to learn C#. Can you recommend to me how I should go about learning C#? Any courses that are great for beginners?


Heya,

Some resources I found super useful...(I also have been learning C# for fun on the side, and messing with Unity).

One really good book is: The C# Players Guide. Really well written, lots of good exercises and IMO one of the better beginner books out there for C#. That's the book that helped me finally "get it". I'm personally not a fan of Code Academy as it is very much a very quick primer and is so "fill in the blanks" that you don't end up learning anything (in my opinion). But good if you already have some programming experience and are just interested in a quick primer in syntax. I find the area most beginners need help with is not the syntax but the problem solving aspect (especially for us musicians!)

Beyond that, Tim Corey is really good and has a few courses and youtube videos. His explanations are among the best out there....he really gets you into some good habits and explains things in a very understandable, and personal way, unlike many other programming resources out there.

For Unity the gamedev.tv courses are probably the best way to start (if that's what you're looking for). Super cheap on Udemy and goes through a lot of content with a good structure & community.


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

chrishurn said:


> Heya,
> 
> Some resources I found super useful...(I also have been learning C# for fun on the side, and messing with Unity).
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris.

Basically when I realised what the Asset store was, I bought a ton of stuff and been slowly learning how to use it and it's taught me loads, especially when looking at the scripts trying to figure out what is broken every 2 minutes 😂

However, I feel learning C# will remove a layer of misery and pain from this process so I really appreciate it!


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

Can someone explain to me why Unity uses C# and Unreal uses C++? I don't understand the languages so therefore don't understands the pros and cons to using each. If I learned C# will it be easy/hard to learn C++? I'm just curious what each language brings to the table because why wouldn't they use the same language?


----------



## mopsiflopsi (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> Basically when I realised what the Asset store was, I bought a ton of stuff and been slowly learning how to use it and it's taught me loads, especially when looking at the scripts trying to figure out what is broken every 2 minutes 😂


Just be aware that there is some very crappy stuff on the Asset Store when it comes to coding. They may be useful early on, but you wouldn't want to rely on 90% of those for a commercial project. It's like the midi chord pack in a way.


----------



## mopsiflopsi (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> Can someone explain to me why Unity uses C# and Unreal uses C++? I don't understand the languages so therefore don't understands the pros and cons to using each. If I learned C# will it be easy/hard to learn C++? I'm just curious what each language brings to the table because why wouldn't they use the same language?


For a beginner C# is easier to work with than C++. Under the hood Unity also converts your C# into C++ when you build your game for a platform, so not much difference once the game is running. 

In very broad terms, C++ is a bit like the anything-goes wild west as it was built around the principle of trusting that the programmer knows what they are doing. The downside is it's very easy to dig very deep holes for yourself when you don't. Whereas C# has more guard rails to protect you from going off a cliff, at the cost of flexibility. Sometimes things take a bit more work to do, but the benefit is stability and predictability.

The C++ you use with Unreal also comes with some extra protection like automated memory management and stuff, but I haven't really worked with it enough to tell you more.


----------



## Andrew Aversa (Sep 29, 2021)

Agreed with the above assessment. But make no mistake, C# is a very powerful language. It isn't _limited_ even if the workflow is different.


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> Just be aware that there is some very crappy stuff on the Asset Store when it comes to coding. They may be useful early on, but you wouldn't want to rely on 90% of those for a commercial project. It's like the midi chord pack in a way.


Yeah I'm quite particular. For example, I own pretty much all of Procedural Worlds stuff and most of Opsive stuff.

Some of the other stuff is quite fun.


----------



## mopsiflopsi (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> Yeah I'm quite particular. For example, I own pretty much of Procedural Worlds stuff and most of Opsive stuff.
> 
> Some of the other stuff is quite fun.


If you're into world building, check out Map Magic 2. I haven't released anything using it, but it's a lot of fun to play around with.


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> If you're into world building, check out Map Magic 2. I haven't released anything using it, but it's a lot of fun to play around with.


Will do man. I am currently learning Gaia Pro 2021 and really enjoying it. Especially when using Microsplat for all texture conversion.


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> For a beginner C# is easier to work with than C++. Under the hood Unity also converts your C# into C++ when you build your game for a platform, so not much difference once the game is running.
> 
> In very broad terms, C++ is a bit like the anything-goes wild west as it was built around the principle of trusting that the programmer knows what they are doing. The downside is it's very easy to dig very deep holes for yourself when you don't. Whereas C# has more guard rails to protect you from going off a cliff, at the cost of flexibility. Sometimes things take a bit more work to do, but the benefit is stability and predictability.
> 
> The C++ you use with Unreal also comes with some extra protection like automated memory management and stuff, but I haven't really worked with it enough to tell you more.


Interesting man. Thank you!


----------



## mopsiflopsi (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> Will do man. I am currently learning Gaia Pro 2021 and really enjoying it. Especially when using Microsplat for all texture conversion.


Welcome to the rabbit hole of virtual landscape design, where you will lose many hours chasing that perfect blend of grass density and view distance.


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## MartinH. (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> @mopsiflopsi I'm really starting to think I need to learn C#. Can you recommend to me how I should go about learning C#? Any courses that are great for beginners?


c# yellow book often gets recommended on the unity forum: 


http://www.csharpcourse.com/






jononotbono said:


> Can someone explain to me why Unity uses C# and Unreal uses C++? I don't understand the languages so therefore don't understands the pros and cons to using each. If I learned C# will it be easy/hard to learn C++?


I'm not a pro but I know solid programming basics and I'm usually comfortable enough with picking up whatever language I need to get something done that I want to get done, but C++ is one of the few I gave up on. So from my point of view C++ is "the confusing one". I've used plain C, Objective C, and C#, but C++ I tried to learn twice and always bounced off. By now I probably could grind through it if I had a really good goal that required it. But unless you have such a goal, imho it's entirely pointless to try and learn C++. And even if you had, it's probably still better to learn C# first because it's easier to wrap your head around.


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> Welcome to the rabbit hole of virtual landscape design, where you will lose many hours chasing that perfect blend of grass density and view distance.


I love it. I find environment design to be the most creative aspect so far. Literally create a world from nothing. It's very therapeutic and a nice change of pace from the constant sample library world.

I even bought a Procedural World asset that records flyby footage just so I can make videos of the camera going round my little creations. Might be a little addicted 😂


----------



## MartinH. (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> I love it. I find environment design to be the most creative aspect so far. Literally create a world from nothing. It's very therapeutic and a nice change of pace from the constant sample library world.
> 
> I even bought a Procedural World asset that records flyby footage just so I can make videos of the camera going round my little creations. Might be a little addicted 😂



What I'd give to feel like that again... I know exactly what you're talking about, enjoy!


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

You gotta love selective marketing. Just went onto facebook and this was in the adverts.
Gotta ask... Is this worth doing or is it going to be horrible?

https://www.ign.com/articles/start-making-your-own-games-with-these-unity-training-classes


----------



## shponglefan (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> Can someone explain to me why Unity uses C# and Unreal uses C++? I don't understand the languages so therefore don't understands the pros and cons to using each. If I learned C# will it be easy/hard to learn C++? I'm just curious what each language brings to the table because why wouldn't they use the same language?



Part of it could be the respective legacies of each engine.

The Unreal engine originated with the original Unreal, which was developed during the 90's before C# existed. Reportedly Tim Sweeney was heavily involved in both the original development and subsequent iterations of the Unreal engine. So I can see how that could have resulted in C++ being a mainstay in that engine's development.

In comparison, C# came out in 2000. And Unity first released in 2005.

Insofar as learning the respective languages, the syntax, programming logic and general concepts of OOP languages is similar. But C# tends to be easier from a memory management perspective. Mucking around with memory allocations and pointers is not something I miss from when I used C++.


----------



## Akarin (Sep 29, 2021)

jononotbono said:


> @mopsiflopsi I'm really starting to think I need to learn C#. Can you recommend to me how I should go about learning C#? Any courses that are great for beginners?



Here you go: https://www.pluralsight.com/paths/csharp?exp=2


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

shponglefan said:


> Part of it could be the respective legacies of each engine.
> 
> The Unreal engine originated with the original Unreal, which was developed during the 90's before C# existed. Reportedly Tim Sweeney was heavily involved in both the original development and subsequent iterations of the Unreal engine. So I can see how that could have resulted in C++ being a mainstay in that engine's development.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## jononotbono (Oct 21, 2021)

Everyone gets hungry, even in JonoWORLD. Which is why no expense has been spared building our premium Diner for you and your loved ones to come and visit before setting off into Bearback Mountain. Come rain or shine!


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## jononotbono (Jan 1, 2022)

Happy New Year everyone. Was playing around in the sandbox this holidays!


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## jononotbono (Nov 15, 2022)

Its been a while... Currently making a first person perspective video game and thought I'd share a couple of work in progress videos. One of an interior area I'm making and one of an outside area. The game takes place in Bearback Mountain. A harrowing, yet beautiful place. Like the Isle of Wight (but more mountainous


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 15, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> Its been a while... Currently making a first person perspective video game and thought I'd share a couple of work in progress videos. One of an interior area I'm making and one of an outside area. The game takes place in Bearback Mountain. A harrowing, yet beautiful place. Like the Isle of Wight (but more mountainous



Brilliant work! Looking wonderful.

I just started learning how to use Unity and it's really exciting so far.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 16, 2022)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Brilliant work! Looking wonderful.
> 
> I just started learning how to use Unity and it's really exciting so far.


Thanks man.
Welcome to the journey. Its an absolute rabbit hole learning so much but its awesome. I love it.
I think back to first starting and how much I know now (which isn't a lot haha) compared to then and its a crazy learning curve!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 16, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> Its been a while... Currently making a first person perspective video game and thought I'd share a couple of work in progress videos. One of an interior area I'm making and one of an outside area. The game takes place in Bearback Mountain. A harrowing, yet beautiful place. Like the Isle of Wight (but more mountainous



You should team up with others, it’s way too big a project for one person  

Looks great !


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 16, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> Thanks man.
> Welcome to the journey. Its an absolute rabbit hole learning so much but its awesome. I love it.
> I think back to first starting and how much I know now (which isn't a lot haha) compared to then and its a crazy learning curve!


Yeah it's a bit overwhelming at times - especially the math stuff. 
How long have you been doing it for?


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 16, 2022)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Yeah it's a bit overwhelming at times - especially the math stuff.
> How long have you been doing it for?


I started about 2 years ago but for at least a year of this time I didn't touch Unity as I have been developing a Touch Screen Controller for CUbase/Nuendo and it sucked up a lot of my time. 
I'm totally hooked back in game dev stuff now though


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## visiblenoise (Nov 16, 2022)

Amazing how much progress you're making as a non-programmer! Have you had to do much C# so far?

Meanwhile, my team of two programmers is still figuring out basic character controller stuff...


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## mopsiflopsi (Nov 16, 2022)

visiblenoise said:


> Amazing how much progress you're making as a non-programmer! Have you had to do much C# so far?
> 
> Meanwhile, my team of two programmers is still figuring out basic character controller stuff...


Character controllers can be tricky to get right. You could use some 3rd party package from the asset store for instant results and later discover it won’t do this one crucial thing for your game or is hard to extend. 

I don’t know what your programmers are up to of course, but in programming in general, a solid foundation can take time up front with not much to show for it.


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## mopsiflopsi (Nov 16, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> Its been a while... Currently making a first person perspective video game and thought I'd share a couple of work in progress videos. One of an interior area I'm making and one of an outside area. The game takes place in Bearback Mountain. A harrowing, yet beautiful place. Like the Isle of Wight (but more mountainous



Omg Half Life 3… :D

Nice level design btw.


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## jononotbono (Nov 17, 2022)

visiblenoise said:


> Amazing how much progress you're making as a non-programmer! Have you had to do much C# so far?
> 
> Meanwhile, my team of two programmers is still figuring out basic character controller stuff...


Thanks man! I've had to look at quite a bit of C# and also had some help from a few people I've meet through this journey. All the game logic so far is done with Visual scripting but I've had to hire some people to make me scripts to get the visual scripting to work with various things.


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## jononotbono (Nov 17, 2022)

mopsiflopsi said:


> Omg Half Life 3… :D
> 
> Nice level design btw.


Half Life 3! I'll take it! 😂


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## jononotbono (Nov 25, 2022)

I've been filming work in progress videos and actually quite like filming them so I can look back on progress so I'm gonna keep making them all throughout the process! So here's another WIP video on my video game I'm developing!


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## tc9000 (Nov 25, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> I've been filming work in progress videos and actually quite like filming them so I can look back on progress so I'm gonna keep making them all throughout the process! So here's another WIP video on my video game I'm developing!



<UNQUALIFIED OPINIONS>

Looks great - I love the snowy vibe - it has a slightly soothing yet menacing exploration / survival horror feel to it. 

If there's one thing I can offer, it's that more than anything, the story (however you choose to tell it) will make or break your game. It's often the vibe, music, and little glimpses of narrative in a trailer that sell me on a game. Of course there has to be a fun game to play also, which, as is the way of things, will probably involve collecting items, shooting things and avoiding being shot / stabbed etc.

As everyone knows, almost all games, from Beat Sabre to Dark Souls, are centred around a trade off between fun and vulnerability, a feeling of _expertise, _of being effective, adept, and a feeling of being vulnerable and exposed. It's a sense of jeopardy that propels most games forwards... that forces the player to act... but you also will want to reflect on how your player will _feel_ _good _when they are playing, or, it could be like that time when I fired up Doom 3 and just went - d'you know what? This is just too _horrible _HAHA.

Two things I wanted to warn you of (hopefully you are well aware of both and can laugh at these):

1. Technical Debt: This is what kills me on every coding project. It's a silent creeeping killer, like diabetes for software development projects - here's a random link https://www.productplan.com/glossary/technical-debt/

2. The name: I just wanted to check you are aware that the term bareback has various meanings and you should google it if you aren't aware of those - if you are - no worries!

</UNQUALIFIED OPINIONS>


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## tc9000 (Nov 25, 2022)

One more thing, as an indie developer, your superpower is that you do not have to conform to the standard gaming templates. Take _The First Tree_ as an example:



(A great deal on that right now BTW ahaha)

In 2017, there was way on gods green earth that EA would make this game. Not a sausage. Now look at _Stray_:



In 2022, this is a game that EA _desperately wishes _they could make.

Plot twist - EA probably secretly own Annapurna don't they ahahahahha


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## jononotbono (Nov 26, 2022)

Haha! Funny enough I have spoken to David (indie dev of the First Tree) and have done his video game course.

The name Bearback Mountain is no accident. I’m from the Isle of Wight after all 😂

Im very much looking forward to the story of my game. And Im doing all music and audio using Wwise. Dealing with dialogue is going to be super fun as I’ve never done that before.

Not gonna talk about story yet but this game has already become something way bigger than I thought I could ever make so I’m excited to keep making progress. Been working on the intro of the game for the past couple of days. Loving it! 

I haven’t played Stray yet but it’s one game I desperately want to. Looks amazing. Maybe I’ll have a play over Christmas time… but then again… I’m laser focussed on developing my game so it may have to wait unfortunately!


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## visiblenoise (Nov 27, 2022)

How hard are you going into the story side of things? My dream result for my own project is something story-heavy (e.g. I'm a big fan of Hideo Kojima), with facial animation and cutscenes and all that, but I haven't even begun to think about how to do that. I wonder what tools you're planning on using?


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## jononotbono (Dec 9, 2022)

Thought I'd film a new work in progress video showing the latest. A custom footstep audio system (that reacts with surfaces and terrain layers, interactive ladders and yesterday I implemented mantling/ledge climbing! Very stoked with how things are slowly shaping up! Only another 20 years to go before Bearback Mountain is open for business. Need some Jurassic Park type main gates I think!  

Jono


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## jononotbono (Dec 9, 2022)

visiblenoise said:


> How hard are you going into the story side of things? My dream result for my own project is something story-heavy (e.g. I'm a big fan of Hideo Kojima), with facial animation and cutscenes and all that, but I haven't even begun to think about how to do that. I wonder what tools you're planning on using?


Sorry man, I missed you had commented. This game is definitely going to have story. There's no way I could make anything as big as something like Hideo Kojima can do because I don't have the experience or budget (you are aiming very high - which is good but be prepared to realise that will take an enormous amount of work and money to achieve what you want).

I'll do some stuff on story as I get deeper into this. Its all a huge amount of work man!


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## Lunatique (Dec 14, 2022)

I worked as art director, concept artist, and texture artist in the video game industry, as well as volunteered as concept artist on the Black Mesa project (any Half-Life fans here?). One of the subjects I teach now is game design, along with art, music, creative writing, and photography.


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## jononotbono (Dec 19, 2022)

Lunatique said:


> I worked as art director, concept artist, and texture artist in the video game industry, as well as volunteered as concept artist on the Black Mesa project (any Half-Life fans here?). One of the subjects I teach now is game design, along with art, music, creative writing, and photography.


You teach game design, art, music, creative writing and photography? That's a lot of skill! (Not forgetting the level of skill to teach).

Shit, I could teach someone how to shoot a gun, drink, and never give up on their dreams! That's about it. Maybe the odd Cubase Macro 

Would love to see some examples of your insane skill set!

Till then, here's more progress on my attempts of making a game...

Ho Ho Ho... Now I have a machine gun (Technically an Assault rifle but as its Christmas and I love Bruce Willis) 



First pass at a 9mm Handgun (Specifically a Browning Hi Power)



Its not just about guns! With so much to see and do, how are you going to explore Bearback Mountain?



Anyway... Loving this Rabbit hole


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## pmcrockett (Dec 19, 2022)

I've done a couple of game jams and have a long-term game project kind of running in the background. I like solo game development because there are so many disciplines involved in it. It doesn't ever get boring.










The Divine Camaraderie was done in Unreal Engine for the Epic MegaJam in August. I've been learning UE since maybe February, but this is the first complete game I've made with it. It's an arcade-y sort of game -- you control an angel and a demon, and you need to spur Dante forward with fire via the demon while constraining the spread of the fire with rain via the angel.









Another Castle was my first and so far only experience in Unity, created for the GitHub Game Off last month. It's a Zelda parody where you play through the game backwards as the wrong character.


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## Lunatique (Dec 19, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> You teach game design, art, music, creative writing and photography? That's a lot of skill! (Not forgetting the level of skill to teach).
> 
> Shit, I could teach someone how to shoot a gun, drink, and never give up on their dreams! That's about it. Maybe the odd Cubase Macro
> 
> Would love to see some examples of your insane skill set!


You can check out all of that at my website: https://www.ethereality.info/

I started out in the early 90s as a comic book artist/writer, then worked as a songwriter for pop-stars and played in a band. Then I went into video games as texture artist and worked my way up to art director and concept artist. During that time I also worked in film and animation as storyboard artist, associate director of photography, and contributing screenwriter. Then I worked as writer, director, and art director for animation. I became a professional photographer around that time, then went back to art directing for video games. I started to teach around that time at art schools, and also started to moonlight as a composer for film/games. Later I started to focus my creative passion on writing novels. 

I basically went through phases in the last 31 years of my professional career. I would focus on one or two things for a few years, then move on to something else, and so on. And sometimes I would return to something I did previously, and sometimes I would leave something behind and never do it again. But the main passions in my life have always been constant: storytelling through fiction, music, and visual art. When life gets hard, I'm grateful that my various experiences allow me to have multiple income streams, so if one income stream dries up, I can fall back on other things I can do professionally.


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## jononotbono (Dec 19, 2022)

Lunatique said:


> You can check out all of that at my website: https://www.ethereality.info/
> 
> I started out in the early 90s as a comic book artist/writer, then worked as a songwriter for pop-stars and played in a band. Then I went into video games as texture artist and worked my way up to art director and concept artist. During that time I also worked in film and animation as storyboard artist, associate director of photography, and contributing screenwriter. Then I worked as writer, director, and art director for animation. I became a professional photographer around that time, then went back to art directing for video games. I started to teach around that time at art schools, and also started to moonlight as a composer for film/games. Later I started to focus my creative passion on writing novels.
> 
> I basically went through phases in the last 31 years of my professional career. I would focus on one or two things for a few years, then move on to something else, and so on. And sometimes I would return to something I did previously, and sometimes I would leave something behind and never do it again. But the main passions in my life have always been constant: storytelling through fiction, music, and visual art. When life gets hard, I'm grateful that my various experiences allow me to have multiple income streams, so if one income stream dries up, I can fall back on other things I can do professionally.


Checked out your site. Congrats man. You have a website. Looks cool. Where's the client list? Even HZ has a client list and he really doesn't need one. 

This is the funny thing with music isn't it. There's no faking it. Music is music. You can be as poor or rich as anyone regards but when all is said and done, the music does the talking. I feel the same about many creative things but I know music better so have to use it as example. Glad you're doing well


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## jononotbono (Dec 19, 2022)

pmcrockett said:


> I've done a couple of game jams and have a long-term game project kind of running in the background. I like solo game development because there are so many disciplines involved in it. It doesn't ever get boring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is amazing! Stop giving up and start giving a shit! haha! Forget what I say. You made your choice. Who am I to influence anyone's decisions haha! 

Love it


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## Lunatique (Dec 19, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> Checked out your site. Congrats man. You have a website. Looks cool. Where's the client list? Even HZ has a client list and he really doesn't need one.
> 
> This is the funny thing with music isn't it. There's no faking it. Music is music. You can be as poor or rich as anyone regards but when all is said and done, the music does the talking. I feel the same about many creative things but I know music better so have to use it as example. Glad you're doing well


I don't do songwriting and composing professionally anymore (I stopped about 10 years ago). These days, I just do music for personal fulfillment. But this isn't to say I'm not open to future opportunities. I've been focusing on writing novels in the last ten years, and getting established as a novelist is my main priority. I'm working on some new music that I might pitch to some record companies down the line, but I'm not very serious about it--just something that will happen naturally if I think the stuff I'm doing has a chance in today's market.


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## jononotbono (Dec 19, 2022)

Lunatique said:


> I don't do songwriting and composing professionally anymore (I stopped about 10 years ago). These days, I just do music for personal fulfillment. But this isn't to say I'm not open to future opportunities. I've been focusing on writing novels in the last ten years, and getting established as a novelist is my main priority. I'm working on some new music that I might pitch to some record companies down the line, but I'm not very serious about it--just something that will happen naturally if I think the stuff I'm doing has a chance in today's market.


Writing novels? Interesting man! A world I have no idea about (in terms of writing)! May it be as creatively fulfilling as the undying need to write music! 
Wish you all the best and Happy Christmas!


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## Lunatique (Dec 20, 2022)

jononotbono said:


> Writing novels? Interesting man! A world I have no idea about (in terms of writing)! May it be as creatively fulfilling as the undying need to write music!
> Wish you all the best and Happy Christmas!


Writing fiction for me is more fulfilling than any other creative passion I have. The main reasons are that it allows me to express things that cannot be done in other mediums, and/or don't require a massive budget, rely on a team of specialists to create, or need to deal with endless technical troubleshooting. But music will always be my other main passion. I thought I was done with being a musician 10 years ago when I decided to stop pursuing it as a career, and a few years ago I had sold most of my gear when a financial disaster happened. But that desire to create music came back just a couple of years after and I started buying gear again, and this year, I decided to fully immerse myself back into making music just for my own fulfillment. If it leads to paid work, I won't say no, but I'm not going to let the business side get in the way of my love of making music again like before.

BTW, since this thread is about making video games, I also have game projects I'd like to pursue in the future, but they are much more traditional games--namely text-based choose-your-own-adventure styled games that are all about storytelling and don't rely on gameplay mechanics.

Happy Christmas to you and everyone else too!


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