# My new virtual Jazz trio! SA Drums SA Bass and Ravenscroft 275



## Maxfabian (Jun 26, 2018)

Hi fellows,

I recently bought some new VI`s. And I am really satisfied with some of them! Especially Straight Ahead Jazz Drums and SA Bass. So I made a little song with my new Virtual Jazz trio... what do you think?



All the best

Max


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## tehreal (Jun 26, 2018)

Fantastic. Curious if you own their brushes instrument. If so, would love to hear what you've made with it.


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## Saxer (Jun 26, 2018)

Beautiful!


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## Alex Fraser (Jun 26, 2018)

Fantastic. Would never have known it was virtual stuff. Nice piano chops too!


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## Ninth Lion (Jun 26, 2018)

Sounds real to me as well. *super relaxed*


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## Maxfabian (Jun 26, 2018)

tehreal said:


> Fantastic. Curious if you own their brushes instrument. If so, would love to hear what you've made with it.



Thanks tehreal! Glad u liked it No I don't own the brushes but they do sound great on the demos... 

Cheers


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## Josh Richman (Jun 26, 2018)

Nice! What is SA bass?


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## artomatic (Jun 26, 2018)

Legit!


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## artomatic (Jun 26, 2018)

Josh Richman said:


> Nice! What is SA bass?



Straight Ahead! Bass


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## JJP (Jun 26, 2018)

Nice! Only comment is that if that was a live drummer in any trio I played in, we'd all be telling him to tone it down. He's going non-stop. If the drummer backs off it will have a nice Kieth Jarrett kind of vibe. 

Don't fear the space.


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## Maxfabian (Jun 27, 2018)

JJP said:


> Nice! Only comment is that if that was a live drummer in any trio I played in, we'd all be telling him to tone it down. He's going non-stop. If the drummer backs off it will have a nice Kieth Jarrett kind of vibe.
> 
> Don't fear the space.



Haha, yes I definitely hear you! The drummer is all over the place but I kind of like it but it may sound a little bit forced. Maybe should have spent more time on editing the drums. Thanks for listening anyway 

Cheers!


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## CGR (Jun 27, 2018)

Lovely work Max - very natural sounding. Your favourite VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 again?


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## SillyMidOn (Jun 27, 2018)

Maxfabian said:


> Hi fellows,
> 
> I recently bought some new VI`s. And I am really satisfied with some of them! Especially Straight Ahead Jazz Drums and SA Bass. So I made a little song with my new Virtual Jazz trio... so what do you think?
> 
> ...



Superb!


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## Maxfabian (Jun 27, 2018)

CGR said:


> Lovely work Max - very natural sounding. Your favourite VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 again?


Thanks man! Yes, my old Ravenscroft 275 is actually the best piano I have for this kind of music imho. But I only have 3 virtual pianos so far. There are many new interesting piano libraries out there so maybe some day I will go for another one... but at this point the Ravenscroft 275 is my go to piano. Which one is your favourite?


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## CGR (Jun 27, 2018)

Maxfabian said:


> Thanks man! Yes, my old Ravenscroft 275 is actually the best piano I have for this kind of music imho. But I only have 3 virtual pianos so far. There are many new interesting piano libraries out there so maybe some day I will go for another one... but at this point the Ravenscroft 275 is my go to piano. Which one is your favourite?



The Ravenscroft 275 sounds great in your hands in this setting. In my opinion this is the type of music where it really shines - it's such a clear tone and you articulate your lines very well with it.

I did own the Ravenscroft 275 for almost a year but eventually sold my license. Fantastic piano, and I really enjoyed experimenting with the muted samples (I'll dig up some playing I did with them and post it here if you like), but I guess I don't generally play the type of music it's best suited too, and found myself calling on the Garritan Yamaha CFX when I needed a clean, modern piano sound (I really like the Abbey Road Studio One ambience in the mic sets).

Other favorites are the new Embertone 1955 Steinway, the ArtVista pianos, Pianoteq's new Steingraeber Grand, Production Voices Yamaha C7, and some of the earlier Sampletekk/PMI pianos. I produced a track last month with the 1920's London Boyd Upright Piano from Somixinema that was just what the mix needed, so my choices vary greatly. I'm definitely not a "one size fits all" guy when it comes to sampled pianos!


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## Maxfabian (Jun 28, 2018)

CGR said:


> (I'll dig up some playing I did with them and post it here if you like)


I would love to, please do! I have always loved the tone of the Garritan Yamaha CFX... is there any downside with the 
Garritan Yamaha CFX? I have always liked the tone of the Vienna Imperial as well but it is so freaking expensive!! 
Thanks for the great feedback!

Cheers


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## Ifness (Jun 28, 2018)

Excellent piano playing! From your user picture it looks like your a big Bill Evans fan, and you've really assimilated a lot of his style. Great work. Truly enjoyed the piece.

Concerning the SA Drums, did you just use a lot the prerecorded loops, or did you also "play" in some the fills, etc?


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## CGR (Jun 28, 2018)

Maxfabian said:


> I would love to, please do! I have always loved the tone of the Garritan Yamaha CFX... is there any downside with the
> Garritan Yamaha CFX? I have always liked the tone of the Vienna Imperial as well but it is so freaking expensive!!
> Thanks for the great feedback!
> 
> Cheers


Hi Max,

here's an mp3 of some testing I did last year with the Ravenscroft 275 muted samples. It's really just me experimenting with the sound, and controlling the muted samples with the Modwheel in real time, so excuse the messy playing. Parts of it are based on some live Chick Corea stuff I remembered from years ago, other parts are improvised.

I'm a big fan of the Garritan Yamaha CFX. It's a very well sampled and programmed piano (top tier in my opinion). The Abbey Road Studio One ambience really gives it life and depth, but you need the full version for that with the ambient/room mic sets, as the Lite version only has the Close mics. I can articulate lines and phrases very cleanly with it, and it has a great bite at higher velocities, and a beautiful open & resonant top end. Can't really think of any downsides to it, although it's huge in size (130GB). I bought my copy as a physical product, which came on a USB stick in a classy presentation box with a detailed colour booklet explaining the recording & mic choices. I feel it's more 3 dimensional than the Ravenscroft 275, and I prefer it's stereo image & depth, but really it gets down to taste - they are both superb sampled pianos.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/ravenscroft-275_testing-muted-notes-edit-mp3.14244/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## robshrock (Jun 28, 2018)

Trio sounds great... which mic setup on the Ravenscroft are you using?

I've found the mics don't blend well in certain combinations due to phase incoherency. I usually lean on the Close mics alone.


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## Maxfabian (Jun 29, 2018)

CGR said:


> Hi Max,
> 
> here's an mp3 of some testing I did last year with the Ravenscroft 275 muted samples. It's really just me experimenting with the sound, and controlling the muted samples with the Modwheel in real time, so excuse the messy playing. Parts of it are based on some live Chick Corea stuff I remembered from years ago, other parts are improvised.
> 
> ...



Thanks man, nice playing! The Ravenscroft sounds excellent as well. 130 GB wow thats huge!! I guess I will buy that Yamaha CFX some day... always had my eyes on it.


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## Maxfabian (Jun 29, 2018)

Ifness said:


> Excellent piano playing! From your user picture it looks like your a big Bill Evans fan, and you've really assimilated a lot of his style. Great work. Truly enjoyed the piece.
> 
> Concerning the SA Drums, did you just use a lot the prerecorded loops, or did you also "play" in some the fills, etc?


Glad you enjoyed it Yes I am a huge fan of Bill Evans. Thanks for listening!

Cheers/M


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## SGordB (Jun 29, 2018)

Maxfabian said:


> Hi fellows,
> 
> I recently bought some new VI`s. And I am really satisfied with some of them! Especially Straight Ahead Jazz Drums and SA Bass. So I made a little song with my new Virtual Jazz trio... so what do you think?
> 
> ...



Very nice! I'm going to look into that jazz drum VI myself. Just one thing kind of bugs me: the piano sounds louder than it needs to be and/or too compressed/insufficient dynamic range (which I sense would have been in your original performance). I want some of those notes and chords to fall back into the texture of the song, but they're always out front.


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## Maxfabian (Jun 29, 2018)

Ifness said:


> Excellent piano playing! From your user picture it looks like your a big Bill Evans fan, and you've really assimilated a lot of his style. Great work. Truly enjoyed the piece.
> 
> Concerning the SA Drums, did you just use a lot the prerecorded loops, or did you also "play" in some the fills, etc?


Hi again, sorry I didn't answer your question before.. I used the prerecorded loops mostly but I "played" some fills because otherwise it would have been to obvious that it was only loops. I am not so in to drums and how you play it correctly but I really think that if you do you could really get a convincing sound out of the SA Drums with out using the prerecorded loops. They really sound great (IMHO). I have to get more in to the drums next time I make something like this. 

Cheers!


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## Sebastianmu (Jun 30, 2018)

Love it very much!


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## Maxfabian (Jul 1, 2018)

robshrock said:


> Trio sounds great... which mic setup on the Ravenscroft are you using?
> 
> I've found the mics don't blend well in certain combinations due to phase incoherency. I usually lean on the Close mics alone.


Thanks for listening! Yes thats exactly my experience as well. I always only use the close mic positions. 

Cheers


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## jvsax (Jul 1, 2018)

cool, sounds great!


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## Maxfabian (Jul 2, 2018)

SGordB said:


> Very nice! I'm going to look into that jazz drum VI myself. Just one thing kind of bugs me: the piano sounds louder than it needs to be and/or too compressed/insufficient dynamic range (which I sense would have been in your original performance). I want some of those notes and chords to fall back into the texture of the song, but they're always out front.


Thanks SGordB! Yes I can really recommend the SA Drums It is really great sounding! I hear what you say about the level of the piano... yeah maybe maybe. The Ravenscroft can some times be a little tricky.. the high notes can pop out a little bit to much. But it wasn't anything I was reacting on in this particularly track. Thanks for listening anyway and I appreciate any feedback and I will definitely have that in mind next time I make some mixing/recording 

Cheers!


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## Maxfabian (Jul 3, 2018)

Sebastianmu said:


> Love it very much!





jvsax said:


> cool, sounds great!


Thanks! Glad you liked it

Cheers!


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## SGordB (Jul 3, 2018)

Hey Max, I notice you've worked with Vienna Jazz Drums in the past. I love their SOUND. Any thoughts on how they compare to SA Drums, especially with regard to usability?


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## Gerald (Jul 4, 2018)

Wow! excellent!+++


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## Maxfabian (Jul 5, 2018)

SGordB said:


> Hey Max, I notice you've worked with Vienna Jazz Drums in the past. I love their SOUND. Any thoughts on how they compare to SA Drums, especially with regard to usability?


Vienna Jazz Drums is really a great library as well. They are similar in usability but they sound very different. VSL is more clean sounding and you get both sticks and brushes, so thats a plus. You only get sticks in SA if you don't by the brushes of course. For Jazz I personally prefer more dirt and SA has really captured the Jazz sound IMHO. One thing to have in mind if you are planing to buy VSL is that I really recommend to have the PRO Player if you don't. It will give you some cool prerecorded loops that is useful and some other advantage stuff. If you prefer loops based library I think they both are great but if you prefer to play in the drums your self I would go with SA there are more options and they sound more "real" to me anyway.. Hope it was to any help 

Cheers!


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## SGordB (Jul 5, 2018)

Maxfabian said:


> Vienna Jazz Drums is really a great library as well. They are similar in usability but they sound very different. VSL is more clean sounding and you get both sticks and brushes, so thats a plus. You only get sticks in SA if you don't by the brushes of course. For Jazz I personally prefer more dirt and SA has really captured the Jazz sound IMHO. One thing to have in mind if you are planing to buy VSL is that I really recommend to have the PRO Player if you don't. It will give you some cool prerecorded loops that is useful and some other advantage stuff. If you prefer loops based library I think they both are great but if you prefer to play in the drums your self I would go with SA there are more options and they sound more "real" to me anyway.. Hope it was to any help
> 
> Cheers!


Thanks for the feedback, Max! I upgraded to Pro a few months ago, and while I have yet to wrap my head around 99% of its features, it does add all kinds of mojo to VSL's VIs, even before one cracks open the arpeggiator.


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## Maxfabian (Jul 6, 2018)

Gerald said:


> Wow! excellent!+++


Thanks!! Glad you liked it


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## Garry (Jul 6, 2018)

SGordB said:


> Thanks for the feedback, Max! I upgraded to Pro a few months ago, and while I have yet to wrap my head around 99% of its features, it does add all kinds of mojo to VSL's VIs, even before one cracks open the arpeggiator.



First of all, amazing piece Max - blows me away how believable you've made this - I challenge anyone to know this wasn't real players. I share the feeling of a comment made earlier regarding the dynamic range of the piano (but that's a small and merely subjective point only) - incredible job!

But oh no, I thought I'd made a decision here! As a direct result of your piece, I've been looking at various Jazz setups, and deciding between them, and thought I'd come down to the SA Drums and SA Bass bundle (on sale at $80 for the bundle), but oh, that VSL drum kit does look wonderful (full price: $95 - but no included upright bass for that price). Now I'm torn again!

I do like the way SA have loops on the yellow and green keys for comping and cymbals in SA Drums, and similarly on the yellow keys for Brushes & Mallets. That looks like it feels very playable to me, and a middle ground between playing it in and having to hit every drum beat on individual keys, but not simply dragging in a loop to the DAW - have I misunderstood? The VSL approach, if I understand correctly is a loop you drag into your DAW? Whilst I prefer that less, I do think I'd need some alternative to just having the drums on individual keys, and I think the strong point about the VSL drums are the brushes and sticks all in one. I don't think at this point I'd add the pro suite, though I'm not sure I've understood what that adds? Both SA and VSL sound great, so I think it comes down to usability for me (plus point also to SA here in that it uses Kontakt, so fits the rest of my instruments better, and one thing less to learn than the VSL player).

Would appreciate any other thoughts on SA drums (Jazz drums vs Brushes/Mallets), the SA Upright Bass and VSL Jazz drums (I didn't like VSL upright, and they don't have video walkthrough, so I've discounted that one).


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## Maxfabian (Jul 8, 2018)

Garry said:


> First of all, amazing piece Max


Thanks for listening! Glad you liked it 
Concerning what library you should go for I would recommend SA Bass and SA Drums. They work very fine together and the drums are very easy to use so is the bass. VSL drums are nice but if you already decided not to go with the VSL upright I think the choice is easy. Go with SA you want regret it 

Cheers!


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