# East West Composer Cloud alternatives?



## keyman_sam (Jun 19, 2017)

Ok, so I've been a CC member for 3 years and I've just cancelled my yearly plan.

A). East West wants you to buy separate licenses for each slave machine. 
B). Their player is outdated and the instruments use 90s naming convention (NV VB VB anyone?). 
C). It's difficult to get the most out of the Hollywood series. It's not as easily/readily playable as others like 8dio. Gliss/legato is pooly done in Hollywood cello with out of tune legato transitions that stick out like a sore thumb. 
D). After all the hoopla, you only get Gold versions not diamond (and the online tutorials use diamond).

The other day I browsed through the sounds of various libraries. I realized that only a few libraries are actually worth having. They are the symphonic orchestra, storm drum, RA/Silk, Pro Drummer, and perhaps the Hollywood series. And for the month I need them I figured I can always re-sub for a month. 

So what are my alternatives to above-mentioned libraries? 8dio comes to mind, any others? 

1). Strings/WoodWinds/Brass
2). Solo instruments - Cello/double bass, etc.
3). Cinematic Percussion
4). Ethnic instruments

Any takers?


----------



## bigcat1969 (Jun 19, 2017)

This site has a nice quick overview of many of the orchestras / section available and their strengths and weaknesses.
https://stormsoundmusic.com/guide


----------



## dpasdernick (Jun 19, 2017)

keyman_sam said:


> Ok, so I've been a CC member for 3 years and I've just cancelled my yearly plan.
> 
> A). East West wants you to buy separate licenses for each slave machine.
> B). Their player is outdated and the instruments use 90s naming convention (NV VB VB anyone?).
> ...



- Vienna is nice. Great woodwinds. It's older but still holds up IMHO. 

- Orchestral tools has some nice libraries as well.

- Damage is great for big bang boomies and Heavyocity has some other percussion libs (I only own Damage) YOu can't swing a cat these days and not hit some sort of Epic percussion library. (or so I've heard, swinging cats is probably a bad thing) 

- Ethnic instruments are tougher. I own Silk, and RA. Perhaps you would consider just buying these two libraries and not subscribing to the entire cloud? note - I'm wicked anti-subscription. Autodesk and Adobe need a firm spanking

- I also own Cinesamples Tina Guo cello and it's pretty darn nice.

Happy hunting,

Darren


----------



## JonSolo (Jun 19, 2017)

Well I ended up purchasing the libraries I wanted from EWQL and got them on sale. I did it slowly over a year after subscribing to the Cloud for a year. (They run a 50% sale off and on throughout the year.)

So in a way despite some of the drawbacks you listed, EWQL was and still is in some ways, ahead of its time. Sadly the alternatives have their own drawbacks and quirks, and ultimately it comes down to understanding what you have.

Still, not only do I have about 14 EWQL libraries, I own a number of alternatives and will list what I use...be prepared for a common list though...we all think alike here, ha.

1. CSS/Berlin Woodwinds/Berlin Brass (you could wait and see what Cinematic Studios release this summer)
2. Chris Hein Solo series
3. SoundIron Apocolypse
4. ERA II and Ancient ERA

Though I use all of the above, I find myself going back to EWQL so often that I wonder why I have much else. Still, I love the diversity of sound, and many of the newer libraries have been awesome. 

To one of your points...Gold is limiting. I did go for Platinum/Diamond versions where possible.


----------



## Johnny (Jun 19, 2017)

Yes, the grass definitely isn't as always greener my friend. I use many competitor libraries but keep coming back to EWSO Platinum for many classic sounds, but I use the Hollywood Series for the rest. (Minus the solo string stuff, use Cinesamples Solo for your strings!) EWSO Platinum just has performances that cannot be replicated by any of the competition! Same goes with the brass fx- especially in the cymbals department! But like Thomas once posted in regards to the Hollywood series: "Just as one does not simply walk into Mordor?" One does not own any string vst without having to get your hands a little bit dirty. I'm all for fast instant gratification too! But I'll still roll up my sleeves to get the results that I want to achieve if I know that it will sound better in the end- and Hollywood Strings/Brass will do just that : ) (It just takes a little more work...) Not to say that I'm "not" going to jump on Century Brass/Strings when they come out of the oven however? I also enjoy sports cars and shiny new toys that make life a little easier along the way ;p (And it's sounding like they are going to be pretty dam good!!!)


----------



## Replicant (Jun 19, 2017)

Honestly, I don't think there is a truly good alternative in the same vain as Composer Cloud yet.

East West's libraries may not be as "playable" or "intuitive" as their "instant gratification" competetitors, but that's actually a good thing because they tend to contain a lot of samples that are essential to the instruments, but are often omitted by other libraries (detache bowing possibly topping the list). As such, it takes more effort to sequence something, but the end result is generally closer to the real deal.

I like the Hollywood Orchestra, but I too find myself still using the Symphonic Orchestra for a lot of passages because many of the "expressive" samples they captured breathe life into composition in ways that most sample libraries since simply don't.

I actually think that the limitations of sample libraries being able to play either really big chords, punchy staccatos or smooth legatos because it's "playable" shares a lot of responsibility in the decline of melodic film and game scores — the articulations in between and a little more abstract are where the "soul" lives.


----------



## keyman_sam (Jun 19, 2017)

Some good suggestions here - keep 'em coming.
EW doesn't offer platinum for CC anymore, afaik. I'm tempted to go with 8dio just because they are so playable and run on Kontakt. I haven't tried an EW platinum library yet. Apart from mic positions do you get anything else?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 20, 2017)

keyman_sam said:


> Some good suggestions here - keep 'em coming.
> EW doesn't offer platinum for CC anymore, afaik. I'm tempted to go with 8dio just because they are so playable and run on Kontakt. I haven't tried an EW platinum library yet. Apart from mic positions do you get anything else?



I have been using a ton of EW libraries for years. On a whim, I bought 8dio Adagio Strings and Adagietto on sale a while ago and was hugely disappointed. IMHO, Hollywood Strings and the string sections from Symphonic Orchestra are far superior. There are a few good patches in the collections, but nowhere near the level of EastWest. How long did you spend with the Hollywood series? As Replicant mentioned, once you "get under the hood" and learn to use them to their full potential, they are simply brilliant. Took me a couple of years (and a ton of productions) to get a proper grasp on Hollywood Strings, and they are worth the investment. And maybe it's just me, but Symphonic Orchestra is still awesome...especially the percussion, woodwinds, Steinway B, and solo sections.

Regarding the licensing, you would need to license them on every slave machine anyways? Just decide which library you want to use on each slave, and simply install the machine licenses; you don't even need the iLok dongle. BTW- the naming conventions, such s NV VB VB, refer to the dynamic crossfades and are very handy when composing a full orchestral score. The manual clearly explains what all of these mean.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jun 20, 2017)

There's not a single final mockup I've ever had accepted for a paid project that didn't features Hollywood and Stormdrum instruments. I've layered each with things like the Albions and Evos and Hein, NI, Evolution, etc. But I could have gotten away with just EW. And I've been making money (not exactly enough to retire on lol!) for over seven years on music, using the EW predominately.

Yes, EW takes work. As much as the younger members her rebel against learning even a base amount of engineering, old bahs-stards like myself are always going to tell you: learn your stuff or be left behind by people who do (worse, the same people might not even be as talented a composer/musician as you are). 

Just my opinion, nothing more.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jun 20, 2017)

Here's a good one:



Here's an even better one imo:



And (in some ways even better) you have the internet 

Learn all you can about the subject, and you might not "need" much else besides niche stuff (and stuff that you just plain like  ).


----------



## Johnny (Jun 20, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I have been using a ton of EW libraries for years. On a whim, I bought 8dio Adagio Strings and Adagietto on sale a while ago and was hugely disappointed. IMHO, Hollywood Strings and the string sections from Symphonic Orchestra are far superior. There are a few good patches in the collections, but nowhere near the level of EastWest. How long did you spend with the Hollywood series? As Replicant mentioned, once you "get under the hood" and learn to use them to their full potential, they are simply brilliant. Took me a couple of years (and a ton of productions) to get a proper grasp on Hollywood Strings, and they are worth the investment. And maybe it's just me, but Symphonic Orchestra is still awesome...especially the percussion, woodwinds, Steinway B, and solo sections.
> 
> Regarding the licensing, you would need to license them on every slave machine anyways? Just decide which library you want to use on each slave, and simply install the machine licenses; you don't even need the iLok dongle. BTW- the naming conventions, such s NV VB VB, refer to the dynamic crossfades and are very handy when composing a full orchestral score. The manual clearly explains what all of these mean.


Exactly! Just A:B compare a HW Strings Powerful Patch- Legato Slow Port for example; play it against any Adagio and Agitato patch and the difference is stunning. With the rise of all of the newer libraries coming out we've nearly forgetting that EW did it right the first time!  (Just try to find a stereo image issue in "any" EW Orchestral library? That Shawn Murphy... Doesn't know a thing about underwater kick boxing, but not a bad engineer- only just a few awards ;p)


----------



## Consona (Jun 20, 2017)

Johnny said:


> Exactly! Just A:B compare a HW Strings Powerful Patch- Legato Slow Port for example; play it against any Adagio and Agitato patch and the difference is stunning.


Examples needed.


----------



## stonzthro (Jun 20, 2017)

I've got LOTS of libraries, and I recently "rediscovered" the East West Hollywood series. I really like the sound and I'm not sure what you mean by it not being readily playable - it seems to work fine here. 

Also, the "90s naming conventions"... these are common terms for orchestration, but shortened to make the names fit in the software. 
NV = non vibrato
VB = vibrato
Spitfire use the same terms in some patches.


----------



## garyhiebner (Jun 20, 2017)

I have also moved away from Composer Cloud for now.

This is what I've replaced it with:


Strings: Cinematic Studio Strings
Brass: CineBrass
Percussion: Damage and CinePerc
Woodwinds: Cinewinds, but looking at Berlin Woodwinds

Like @dpasdernick its harder to replace the ethnic instruments like Ra and Silk, but Impact Soundworks has some really nice eastern instruments which could do. I do miss Silk quite a bit. Maybe will go back to CC for these libraries:

Out of interest what you can do to run EWs stuff on your slave is to make sure you're using an iLok, then create a template that loads up an instance of each EW instrument. Once they loaded you can remove the iLok and put it in your master. You just need to put the iLok back in if you close the VEPro or Host on your slave machine and load up the instruments again. I found out the other day that this works. Not too sure how legit it is to do this way, but it works.


----------



## keyman_sam (Jun 21, 2017)

Well, their diamond stuff is no more available and I feel I'm missing out with Gold.

The other day I used 8dio's adagietto and was stunned by how easy it was. I got soaring legatos without much effort - just the velocity and expression was enough.

My biggest gripe with EW is they require you buy a seperate license for each slave. That's just too much. I have an i7 920 that still runs great but maxed out at 16GB RAM. For my last project I used up almost all of it.


----------



## Fleer (Jun 21, 2017)

Although I have and love scores of other libraries, EWQL is still the way to go for me, as their instruments (18 of them, primarily Hollywood Diamond but also their Gold versions) just work very well together.


----------



## Dominik Raab (Jun 22, 2017)

> Well, their diamond stuff is no more available and I feel I'm missing out with Gold.



Diamond *is* available via the CC, although they changed the layout for whatever reason. You have to select the dropdown menu on the right option (CCX), and voila (or viola? ), you can select CC Plus, the one including Diamond libraries.

It used to be its own "column" with Student left, normal and X (prepay with extra mic position) combined in the middle, and Plus on the right. Now they've combined X and Plus as the right-most option, confusing the hell out of me - and you too, apparently.


----------



## thov72 (Jun 22, 2017)

Johnny said:


> Just as one does not simply walk into Mordor?"


I ve read that comment before and find it extremely funny since it sorta compares EWQL Hollywood Orchestra to Mordor haha
So what library would be Rivendell? Or Rohan


----------



## keyman_sam (Jun 23, 2017)

Dominik Raab said:


> Diamond *is* available via the CC, although they changed the layout for whatever reason. You have to select the dropdown menu on the right option (CCX), and voila (or viola? ), you can select CC Plus, the one including Diamond libraries.
> 
> It used to be its own "column" with Student left, normal and X (prepay with extra mic position) combined in the middle, and Plus on the right. Now they've combined X and Plus as the right-most option, confusing the hell out of me - and you too, apparently.


Oops you're right. I might give EW CC another shot after hearing the glowing reviews.


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Aug 6, 2018)

Dominik Raab said:


> Diamond *is* available via the CC, although they changed the layout for whatever reason. You have to select the dropdown menu on the right option (CCX), and voila (or viola? ), you can select CC Plus, the one including Diamond libraries.
> 
> It used to be its own "column" with Student left, normal and X (prepay with extra mic position) combined in the middle, and Plus on the right. Now they've combined X and Plus as the right-most option, confusing the hell out of me - and you too, apparently.


But what I don’t get is why Ccx is then less expensive? You get more ( diamond) for less money?
And with plus it seems you get less products? Spaces vs spaces 2 with CC or CCX?


----------



## Dominik Raab (Aug 6, 2018)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> But what I don’t get is why Ccx is then less expensive? You get more ( diamond) for less money?
> And with plus it seems you get less products? Spaces vs spaces 2 with CC or CCX?



CC X does not include Diamond; it includes one additional mic position. You pay less because it's a one-year subscription that you can't cancel after a month. You need to pay the year, and when it auto-renews, it's another full year from then.

CC Plus includes *all products*. Full stop. If Spaces 1 is listed and Spaces 2 isn't, that's an error. CC Plus includes absolutely everything.


----------



## JPQ (Aug 6, 2018)

i also found cc x is too pricey to me. when i know what i need. and i feel play is indeed bit outdated. but i dont know anything hich can fully replace it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 6, 2018)

JPQ said:


> i also found cc x is too pricey to me. when i know what i need. and i feel play is indeed bit outdated. but i dont know anything hich can fully replace it.



Outdated? Play 6 is the best version ever, don't underestimate it.


----------



## JPQ (Aug 6, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Outdated? Play 6 is the best version ever, don't underestimate it.


Yes indeed is best version but still there is better playing software. but indeed is not worst becouse i feel have clearly own place and effects are very good. outdated is relative thing.


----------



## lastmessiah (Aug 6, 2018)

Just buy Diamond and put in the work to learn it. There isn't really anything better.


----------



## jcrosby (Aug 6, 2018)

garyhiebner said:


> its harder to replace the ethnic instruments like Ra and Silk



I have both. They're great, but I like Ethno World just as much. I also find it to be a more comprehensive collection overall.



Wolfie2112 said:


> Regarding the licensing, you would need to license them on every slave machine anyways? Just decide which library you want to use on each slave, and simply install the machine licenses; you don't even need the iLok dongle.



For those of us that sketch on a laptop or like to get out of the house for a change in perspective this is no good. iLoks can break (happened to me), get lost, or stolen. If you already bought a license for a library your options are either buy something twice or subscribe to a product you already have. For users with CC you have to subscribe twice... That's either taking advantage of, or failing to acknowledge the importance of your users AFAIC.

I've been close to cutting EW ties for a while... If I did the only things I'd miss heavily are SD-2 and SD-3... Even then life would go on as I have a ton of formidable replacements, let alone Kontakt having a ton of libraries EW just doesn't compete with...


----------



## Piano Pete (Aug 6, 2018)

Diamond on sale is hard to beat for the price. It blends well with a lot of other libraries. It's a nice bread and butter pack.


----------



## musicalweather (Aug 6, 2018)

I'm reading this thread with interest as I'm also looking to get out of EW. I've had EWQLSO for over 10 years and HW Brass Gold for the last couple of years, but with PLAY 6, I can no longer do an offline bounce using DP (I railed on about that here.). I've moved on to Berlin Strings, orchestral percussion from Impact Soundworks, and have the section woodwinds from Sonokinetic. Brass is the next big item to find to replace EW. The hybrid, epic stuff I have covered with Heavyocity, Native Instruments (Action Strikes) and other developers such as Hybrid Two.
Am I the only soul on this forum with problems bouncing offline with PLAY 6?


----------



## jcrosby (Aug 7, 2018)

musicalweather said:


> Am I the only soul on this forum with problems bouncing offline with PLAY 6?


I haven't but I'm not in DP. Have you tried using whatever DP's versions of freeze or bounce in place are? 
And have you tried inserting a measure or two of silence at the beginning? (Omnisphere used to give me this issue in Logic some years back... The only solution at the time was an empty measure or two at the beginning of the project.)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 7, 2018)

jcrosby said:


> For those of us that sketch on a laptop or like to get out of the house for a change in perspective this is no good. iLoks can break (happened to me), get lost, or stolen. If you already bought a license for a library your options are either buy something twice or subscribe to a product you already have. For users with CC you have to subscribe twice... That's either taking advantage of, or failing to acknowledge the importance of your users AFAIC.



I work this way as well, but fortunately my iLok has never had an issue. It's crazy how we're relying on a .35 cent plastic dongle to work professionally, hopefully soon they'll allow a few machine licenses or something.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Aug 7, 2018)

keyman_sam said:


> So what are my alternatives to above-mentioned libraries?



You shouldn't ask this question. There are so many libraries. It's impossible to tell. Everyone's got their favorites.

You should do some research, narrow it down to a number of products that really peak your interest and ask specific questions about these. The feedback will be much more useful.


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 7, 2018)

Offline bouncing is for weenies


----------



## robgb (Aug 7, 2018)

I lasted a month on Composer Cloud. That was it.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Aug 7, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I work this way as well, but fortunately my iLok has never had an issue. It's crazy how we're relying on a .35 cent plastic dongle to work professionally, hopefully soon they'll allow a few machine licenses or something.



My Ilok is made of metal and beats up plastic dongles when it has had too much to drink.

Seriously, the metal iloks are as tough as Arnie when someone has kidnapped his daughter....

You’d really have to try hard to break one of those....


----------



## MarcelM (Aug 7, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I work this way as well, but fortunately my iLok has never had an issue. It's crazy how we're relying on a .35 cent plastic dongle to work professionally, hopefully soon they'll allow a few machine licenses or something.



there is machine licences already? iam pretty sure i used one when i had composer cloud. now i have diamond and put the licenses on my old ilok1. not sure if diamond supports machine license, but i guess if composer cloud works it should.

between. what soooo good about play 6? are load times alot better or just a bit? i know about the search function. not needed much tbh.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 7, 2018)

Heroix said:


> there is machine licences already? iam pretty sure i used one when i had composer cloud. now i have diamond and put the licenses on my old ilok1. not sure if diamond supports machine license, but i guess if composer cloud works it should.
> 
> between. what soooo good about play 6? are load times alot better or just a bit? i know about the search function. not needed much tbh.



Yes, there are machine licenses, but that doesn't help when you take a laptop out of the studio, as the libraries are then tied to your primary machine.

I just find the stability and load times of Play 6 really good, plus it's nice seeing all of your installed libraries in one column. And I use Komplete Kontrol; Play now nicely integrates with this. I can instantly control Play parameters directly from my S88 and the keys are all appropriately lit depending on the patch.


----------



## jcrosby (Aug 7, 2018)

mikeybabes said:


> My Ilok is made of metal and beats up plastic dongles when it has had too much to drink.
> 
> Seriously, the metal iloks are as tough as Arnie when someone has kidnapped his daughter....
> 
> You’d really have to try hard to break one of those....


The iLok I had break simply failed out of the blue, not an issue of it taking a beating... Just saying, never a bad idea to have a backup iLok...


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 8, 2018)

dpasdernick said:


> - Vienna is nice. Great woodwinds. It's older but still holds up IMHO.
> 
> - Orchestral tools has some nice libraries as well.
> 
> ...





Dominik Raab said:


> CC X does not include Diamond; it includes one additional mic position. You pay less because it's a one-year subscription that you can't cancel after a month. You need to pay the year, and when it auto-renews, it's another full year from then.
> 
> CC Plus includes *all products*. Full stop. If Spaces 1 is listed and Spaces 2 isn't, that's an error. CC Plus includes absolutely everything.


Yep, certainly have Spaces II here with my CC Plus sub. Which I have had for almost a year and half now


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 8, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Outdated? Play 6 is the best version ever, don't underestimate it.


There are just two additions I would appreciate seeing with PLAY:
-One being the ability to automate the mic/volume levels and switch on and off the positions with MIDI CC/Program Changes etc. For someone who uses Lemur/TouchOSC/Other extensively to control my VE Pro instances

-The other being sample purging like Kontakt does 

Perhaps one day, PLAY!!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 8, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Yes, there are machine licenses, but that doesn't help when you take a laptop out of the studio, as the libraries are then tied to your primary machine.
> 
> I just find the stability and load times of Play 6 really good, plus it's nice seeing all of your installed libraries in one column. And I use Komplete Kontrol; Play now nicely integrates with this. I can instantly control Play parameters directly from my S88 and the keys are all appropriately lit depending on the patch.


Does this include controlling the mic and volume levels?
Because I am not aware of being able to automate this... on my KK49


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 8, 2018)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Does this include controlling the mic and volume levels?
> Because I am not aware of being able to automate this... on my KK49



Not 100% sure, as I never automate the mic levels, but I'll check when I'm back in the studio. If you right click on a mic fader, is there a MIDI learn option?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 8, 2018)

There 


Wolfie2112 said:


> Not 100% sure, as I never automate the mic levels, but I'll check when I'm back in the studio. If you right click on a mic fader, is there a MIDI learn option?


There does not seem to be :/


----------

