# WTF? Native Access wants ridiculous amounts of free space on my startup drive



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2021)

This is a new one on me. I have 28GB free on my startup drive (Mojave), which is how it's been for years, and I've installed huge libraries as recently as a few days ago.

I'm trying to install a library that's about 14GB.

It wants me to free up an additional 35GB or something on my startup drive and won't allow it to install the library on the drive I want to put it on (which has oodles of room).

Is this new? What's the solution?

No, I'm not going to free up 35GB on my startup drive.


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## Sunny Schramm (Mar 19, 2021)

unpacking the download needs double the space sometimes and also your system wants some free space to work fine. seems normal to me. also every of your drive should have 15% free space after all is installed.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2021)

As I said, I've installed 50 billion much larger sample libraries. It shouldn't need to download them to your system drive.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2021)

And if it's normal, normal is a ass.


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## jbuhler (Mar 19, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> This is a new one on me. I have 28GB free on my startup drive (Mojave), which is how it's been for years, and I've installed huge libraries as recently as a few days ago.
> 
> I'm trying to install a library that's about 14GB.
> 
> ...


People have been complaining about this sporadically for about the last 6 months, so I guess maybe Native Access has changed something about how it works. But it seems that you have to have the free space on the boot drive because even though Native Access allows you to designate another download drive, it still wants to use the bootdrive as the temporary download drive. There are ways around it, and the most common, I think, is to create a new bootdrive with plenty of free space on an external drive just for the purposes of downloading.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2021)

Thanks.

Oy.


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## AnhrithmonGelasma (Mar 19, 2021)

Yikes. Guess I won't be getting any Kontakt Player libraries > 20 gb or so anytime soon. Good to know. 

Why can't they have it break the download into manageable pieces?


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## jbuhler (Mar 19, 2021)

I wonder if this is related to the way Apple has locked down Catalina and above requiring all sorts of new permissions to access external disks. It does seem to be mostly Mac people who are having the issue. And it could easily be affecting everyone, if Native Access has been rewritten for all systems.


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## callen1685 (Mar 19, 2021)

Or just download on another computer/laptop (that's what I do sometimes), copy to your sample drive then direct Native Access to the folder.


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## Paul Cardon (Mar 19, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I wonder if this is related to the way Apple has locked down Catalina and above requiring all sorts of new permissions to access external disks. It does seem to be mostly Mac people who are having the issue. And it could easily be affecting everyone, if Native Access has been rewritten for all systems.


This is actually a REALLY good point. Lots of software on the newest versions of MacOS have been running into intense issues with managing disk space, managing permissions, deletion of caches, etc. etc. I know several people having massive issues with Dropbox's Smart Sync feature recently, ballooning caches and an inability to properly delete things when they transition to Smart Sync.

Wouldn't be surprised of Native Access is being subjected to similar issues.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2021)

You can download huge files from anywhere on the Internet to any drive you want from a browser (or, for example, AudioBro's own downloading app). It makes no sense that this would be an Apple murder, although who knows.

After you have the files, NI should be able to install the NKIs from wherever it wants without requiring enough space for the samples + more.


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## BasariStudios (Mar 19, 2021)

AnhrithmonGelasma said:


> Yikes. Guess I won't be getting any Kontakt Player libraries > 20 gb or so anytime soon. Good to know.
> 
> Why can't they have it break the download into manageable pieces?


I have more than 20GB just PCG Content for Kontakt
without any Samples LOL. 20GB? Lol
I would actually stay away from a 20GB Library 
unless it was for only one Sound.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2021)

callen1685 said:


> Or just download on another computer/laptop (that's what I do sometimes), copy to your sample drive then direct Native Access to the folder.



Makes sense, but I don't see how that would solve the problem.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2021)

BasariStudios said:


> I have more than 20GB just PCG Content for Kontakt
> without any Samples LOL. 20GB? Lol
> I would actually stay away from a 20GB Library
> unless it was for only one Sound.


You're missing out on one of my favorite new libraries without knowing the first thing about it.

The only reason I'm not mentioning it by name is that the developer would kick me hard in the ass.

EDIT: I hope everyone appreciates the incredible restraint I used not going straight to the obvious size dickjoke.


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## clarkcontrol (Mar 19, 2021)

It’s not just Catalina. It’s happened to me here on high Sierra. 11 gig library wanted over 30 gigs. 😑


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## kgdrum (Mar 19, 2021)

@Nick Batzdorf
i had this problem recently,i was trying to install Sunset Strings via Native Access. I had 32 gig of free space available but NA would aways give me error messages either for an incorrect install path or not enough room on the drive for a 13gig download.
Finally I replaced my boot drive,I went from 500 gig to 1tb and NA instantly installed the library.
So yeah I think NA wants more room on the drives for installs than it used to demand.






Am I totally incompetent installing a 3rd party library using Native Access? (SOLVED)


Hi All Everyone has their Achilles heel with some task or chore for me it seems I have some kind of brain cramp trying to install libraries via Native Access. I’m using a Mac,High Sierra,Kontakt 6.51 and the latest version of Native Access. I’m trying to install Sunset Strings. I entered the...




vi-control.net


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## jbuhler (Mar 19, 2021)

clarkcontrol said:


> It’s not just Catalina. It’s happened to me here on high Sierra. 11 gig library wanted over 30 gigs. 😑


No, it doesn’t seem to be system based. But that doesn’t mean they didn’t rewrite Native Access for all systems to address issues that were appearing in the more recent systems. This problem seems to have started cropping up recently, so I speculate that NI rewrote the code. And I know when I changed to Catalina I spent much of the first few days granting programs privileges to read and write to external disks among other things.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 19, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> @Nick Batzdorf
> i had this problem recently,i was trying to install Sunset Strings via Native Access.i had 32 gig of free space available but NA would aways give me error messages either for an incorrect install path or not enough room on the drive for a 13gig download.
> Finally I replaced my boot drive,I went from 500 gig to 1tb and NA instantly installed the library.
> So yeah I think NA wants more room on the drives for installs than it used to demand.
> ...


For me the problem is that I'd have to replace all my back-up drives too if I did that.

Really stupid!


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## kgdrum (Mar 19, 2021)

I updated to CCC5 cloned the boot (incredibly easy) and setup a 6tb CCC daily backup of the boot drive(which is also bootable).
I was also having issues with Time Machine so I just transitioned the TM drive to Carbon Copy Cloner, done.


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## homie (Mar 20, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> This is a new one on me. I have 28GB free on my startup drive (Mojave), which is how it's been for years, and I've installed huge libraries as recently as a few days ago.
> 
> I'm trying to install a library that's about 14GB.
> 
> ...


I point the Native Access download folder path to an external drive and never install content packages on the boot drive, just applications and plugins. Additionally you could try to run a scan for temp files on your boot drive which can be deleted.


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## EvilDragon (Mar 20, 2021)

Did you change the download location in NA preferences to NOT be on your boot drive?


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## Pier (Mar 20, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> Did you change the download location in NA preferences to NOT be on your boot drive?


Was going to suggest this too.

Obviously Native Access needs space to download something and decompress it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> Did you change the download location in NA preferences to NOT be on your boot drive?


No.

And that looks like my answer. Thanks! Will change it and see whether it works, but it looks like it will.

Seriously, there are NI users even stupider than me, and if I can't figure that out then you'd at least want something this simple and seemingly obvious to be on the troubleshooting page it redirects you to!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> I updated to CCC5 cloned the boot (incredibly easy) and setup a 6tb CCC daily backup of the boot drive(which is also bootable).
> I was also having issues with Time Machine so I just transitioned the TM drive to Carbon Copy Cloner, done.


I use SuperDuper for bootable clones, which is basically the same thing as CCC. But I rely on Time Machine backups that are done every hour.

That's backupS plural - alternating drives, one of which is attached to a router, and it contains backups of multiple Macs.

My whole backup scheme would come unraveled if I replaced my boot drive with a larger one. It's more than must replacing one drive.

Oy! Oy! Oy!


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## kgdrum (Mar 20, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I use SuperDuper for bootable clones, which is basically the same thing as CCC. But I rely on Time Machine backups that are done every hour.
> 
> That's backupS plural - alternating drives, one of which is attached to a router, and it contains backups of multiple Macs.
> 
> ...


Well after I read posts from a few Time Machine users also saying after TM working for several months it just stopped working with no apparent reason or solution.
I was on the phone with Apple tech support for 3 different calls over 3 or 4 days with an extremely nice & knowledgeable Apple Tech Support Supervisor.
She also reached out to the Engineering Team,they will not look or address legacy Macs or anything in an older OS.
As far as Apple seems to be concerned if you’re using a legacy product with a legacy OS they don’t have the time or resources to address issues.
Apple thinks the solution is to buy a new Mac that’s currently in the product line and use the latest OS and then they can offer support.
On Thursday after I finally successfully cloned my drive with CCC she mentioned that I could use CCC in place of TM since it works and Apple seems to have abandoned support for older Macs and OS.
For me it appears to be a great solution,I already had two available drives,a 1tb SSD for the boot and a 6tb for backing it up.
I set it up for auto backup once a day but you have me thinking,hourly?
Maybe I will set it to update two or three times daily but hourly?
lol nothing I do is worth backing up so diligently!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> I set it up for auto backup once a day but you have me thinking,hourly?


Only if you want to be able to go back to previous versions. I can't say I have to do that all the time, but it's come in handy before.



kgdrum said:


> Apple thinks the solution is to buy a new Mac that’s currently in the product line and use the latest OS and then they can offer support.


Yah. If you can, ask your question about, say, an iPhone (if you have a current one; it would work for me now, but I used my previous one for six years).


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## kgdrum (Mar 20, 2021)

I’m still using an iPhone 7.
I was thinking the other day about possibly upgrading the phone than I thought as I rely so heavily on the playback of iTunes on my phone( I have 400 cds in wav format on the phone)will the new phones and iOS even work with legacy iTunes setups?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

Dunno. My 6 Plus wouldn't run the latest iOSes, and I figured it was finally time to upgrade.

I was dreading it, because I really like that phone - including its camera, which I used like crazy. But the new one - iPhone 12 Pro Max Heavily Endowed - really is better, even though it's irritating that you have to use an adapter if you want a regular headphone jack.

It's all expensive, of course.

And iTunes - I think just called Music now - is a raging clustershag. Apple is great at software, but that steaming mound is horrible software.


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## kgdrum (Mar 20, 2021)

For me the phone is 50% of my needs and the mobile juke box is probably about the same. So for me the ability to play music imported from itunes is crucial. 
Yeah the new iPhones look really nice but the prices have certainly escalated.I'm looking at the 12 Pro model not the Max.........


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## wcreed51 (Mar 20, 2021)

Choose a different download location in Preferences...


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## rnb_2 (Mar 20, 2021)

Just a quick note that some people have had the lack of space on the system drive issue in spite of having their download location set properly to an external drive in Native Access. Fingers crossed that changing that setting fixes @Nick Batzdorf's issue.

Also, for what it's worth, my iPhone 12 mini works just fine with iTunes on my last remaining Mojave machine. If you don't need the absolute best camera with three lenses instead of two, you can save a fair bit of money (usually about $150) by going with the non-Pro iPhones, as long as you don't need more than 256GB of storage.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

DOESN'T WORK. :(


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> Did you change the download location in NA preferences to NOT be on your boot drive?


See above. :(

This is a really nasty bug. Nowhere near as nasty as covid, but still, as bad as it gets for a software bug.

If someone buys software and can't install it because of this, that's not at all good.

And by the way, I did have the application installation set to install where it normally would before that screen shot. I just figured I'd try changing it.


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## dcoscina (Mar 20, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> See above. :(
> 
> This is a really nasty bug. Nowhere near as nasty as covid, but still, as bad as it gets for a software bug.
> 
> ...


I loathe this downloader... additional NI must have the slowest servers and download speeds. Continuata was a solid, reliable, and flexible download option. I'm disappointed more developers are going the NI path... it's fraught with headache, heart ache, and indigestion!


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## pulsedownloader (Mar 20, 2021)

You named your hard drive "rectum new"?


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## Technostica (Mar 20, 2021)

This bug with the macOS version has been reported here a number of times.
Hopefully people are reporting this to NI.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

pulsedownloader said:


> You named your hard drive "rectum new"?


Whose drives aren't all named Rectum?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

Technostica said:


> This bug with the macOS version has been reported here a number of times.
> Hopefully people are reporting this to NI.


Mojave here.


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## dcoscina (Mar 20, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Mojave here.


yeah, it was messed up on Mojave and now with Catalina. It's NI, not Mac OS.


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## kgdrum (Mar 20, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> DOESN'T WORK. :(


Same for me whenever I tried to change the download location or the content location I’d get file path error messages.(I’m in High Sierra)
I was trying to install a 12gig library and my boot SSD had 32 gig available and my sample drive (content) had 500 gig of space.
As soon as I cloned & doubled my boot drive from 500 gig to 1tb NA worked flawlessly.
But I agree with Nick , Native Access wants more space than it supposedly needs and on my Mac without changing the boot drive I think I’d still be stuck in NA purgatory.


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## Technostica (Mar 20, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Mojave here.


With the macOS base getting so fragmented, it does make support harder.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I loathe this downloader... additional NI must have the slowest servers and download speeds. Continuata was a solid, reliable, and flexible download option. I'm disappointed more developers are going the NI path... it's fraught with headache, heart ache, and indigestion!


NI makes great instruments, but this is TERRIBLE.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> As soon as I cloned & doubled my boot drive from 500 gig to 1tb NA worked flawlessly


Again, not an option.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

Technostica said:


> With the macOS base getting so fragmented, it does make support harder.


Cool.

I'm unmoved.


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## kgdrum (Mar 20, 2021)

@Nick Batzdorf
I know it’s not a viable option for you but for me it was a solution and it might help someone else. At one point I was trying to figure out what I could take off might boot drive (temporarily) to make more room for NA.
Besides not really finding anything suitable the thought of potentially really messing up my drive for this awful installer is totally screwed up.

What about cloning your boot drive temporarily to a larger drive
boot from that,install & authorize the library on the temporary boot drive via NA move the library to the location you want than point NA to the new location?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> What about cloning your boot drive temporarily to a larger drive


No. I refuse.

But of course your suggestions might help someone else! I don't mean to be self-centered.


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## Technostica (Mar 20, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Cool. I'm unmoved.


There's no excuse, but when the going gets tough you find out who can deliver and who can't. 
I very recently did a fresh install of W10 and for the first time I had Access issues. 
NI's FAQ didn't help but a forum post did. 
Considering how fundamental Access is, this is very poor and on both platforms. 
Shocking really.


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## EvilDragon (Mar 20, 2021)

Wait, you shouldn't be getting the Locate dialog at all. This only happens when you want to relocate a library (and this is not done from the Preferences dialog, but when you hover a particular library in the list, the LOCATE button shows up).

Also, there is another way you could force a download through your browser (benefit of this is you get an ISO that stays which you can then back up).






Native Access Download problems


I recently puchased Swing More! and havent been able to download it. When I try to change the download location it insist on trying to download to my internal HD. I am also trying to redownload Lumina (I accidentally erased it from my external drive) and the same thing is happening, its...




vi-control.net





I explained how it is on Windows, but another member said where to find the necessary file on Mac.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2021)

Thanks ED, will try that.


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## jcrosby (Mar 20, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> I explained how it is on Windows, but another member said where to find the necessary file on Mac.


Yeah, I followed the steps, found what look to be the equivalent files on mac but it wasn't possible.

In terms of archiving installers, the only workaround I've found in macos is to copy the .pkg files immediately after the DMG mounts and paste to the desktop before it's done self-destructing. Unfortunately with small installers it's a 50/50 shot, sometimes the time between the DMG moutns and files install is so fast it doesn't succeed in copying the installer if the DMG disappears by the time you've pasted the file...

Also, copying the pkg before the DMG starts the install-and-destruct-process results in an incomplete installer that won't run. Seems the process works completely differently on a mac. It's a royal PITA , then again most things are with Apple.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2021)

I see the .tmp folder in my root directory (if you hold Shift-Command . you toggle invisible files on and off). But there's no NI crap in there. There's also a Temporary Items folder, but it won't let you open it ("you don't have permissions, now f off," it says).

ED, I posted two screen shots: one from prefs, the other from hovering over the library in the list. That part seems normal.

But the other part is chafing my anus.


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## NekujaK (Mar 22, 2021)

Tangentially related... it's always irritated me that NA creates folders in C:\ProgramData (on Windows) for every installed library, each containing about 15-20MB of content, which in itself isn't much, but I've got 140 of them which adds up to over 2GB!

Can these folders be safely deleted?

*MODERATOR EDIT* - I blurred the numbers.


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## pulsedownloader (Mar 22, 2021)

NekujaK said:


> Tangentially related... it's always irritated me that NA creates folders in C:\ProgramData (on Windows) for every installed library, each containing about 15-20MB of content, which in itself isn't much, but I've got 140 of them which adds up to over 2GB!
> 
> Can these folders be safely deleted?
> 
> View attachment 46768


You should block out those codes on a forum. I believe they are your Native Access keys


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## EvilDragon (Mar 22, 2021)

They aren't NA keys (they are elsewhere), they are uninstaller UUIDs. If you remove those folders you will not be able to uninstall a product properly.


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## EvilDragon (Mar 22, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I see the .tmp folder in my root directory (if you hold Shift-Command . you toggle invisible files on and off). But there's no NI crap in there.


That temporary folder is only created by NA when you start a download. But NA probably doesn't let you download since your download path still seems to be set to your boot drive, or something? I'm unsure what is going on there.

1. Open NA preferences
2. Set download path to a non-boot drive which has enough room to download stuff
3. Download stuff

Hovering over a library then using Locate is something else and we don't need that here.

I mean plenty of people are doing this and I'm sure NI support would be swamped with reports if this weren't working across both platforms...


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## Mike Greene (Mar 22, 2021)

I finally heard back from NI this morning (okay, I admit I didn't actually ask until this morning) and this is an issue they're aware of and it does seem to be Mac specific. Here's a page where they explain the problem. Until they fix it (I get the feeling they've been stumped for a while on this one, so it might not be soon), you do indeed need double the size of the library available on your system drive, even if you select a non-system drive as the destination.

I see three options:

1. Temporarily copy something big from the system drive to another drive to clear up space. Install the mystery library, then move your porn folder back to the System Drive and the Mystery Library over to your Samples drive. (Presumably named "Rectum Samples"?)

2. Nag the lazy developer to upload rar files of the library. He's probably already planning to do that, but it's a long process, because his rar app is on an old laptop, so it's kinda cumbersome.

3. Install it on another computer and copy it to the good computer. (Well, "good" except for the puny system drive.)

Note that authorizing the library is separate from installing the library. You have to authorize, but you don't have to use NA to install. So Options 2 or 3 will work, even if your system drive has zero free space, since you can bypass that step. In other words, once you've copied this mystery library to your Samples drive using Options 2 or 3, then open NA, add the serial, skip the "Install" process, and it will ask you to point it to the library's folder.


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## NekujaK (Mar 22, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> They aren't NA keys (they are elsewhere), they are uninstaller UUIDs. If you remove those folders you will not be able to uninstall a product properly.


Ok thanks. Speaking of uninstalling... I've never been able to figure out how to uninstall a Kontakt Player library so it no longer appears in Native Access, without doing a registry hack. Is there a clean way to uninstall a library?

(I apologize for diverting the main topic)


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## EvilDragon (Mar 22, 2021)

Yes, you would uninstall from Add/Remove Programs, as you normally do with any other program...


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## EvilDragon (Mar 22, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> and this is an issue they're aware of and it does seem to be Mac specific. Here's a page where they explain the problem.


But wait, nowhere do they mention changing the download path in that knowledgebase article (or that it's not working)...?


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## NekujaK (Mar 22, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes, you would uninstall from Add/Remove Programs, as you normally do with any other program...


D'oh! Why didn't I think of that! 🤦‍♂️
Many thanks, Mr. Dragon.


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## Mike Greene (Mar 22, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> But wait, nowhere do they mention changing the download path in that knowledgebase article (or that it's not working)...?


Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but towards the top, under the "Cause" heading, they say:
"The installation process of a Native Instruments product requires temporarily extra space on your internal hard drive (or 'system drive'), even if you want to install the product on an external hard drive."

They're not _directly_ saying that changing the path won't work, but the implication is there, especially since most people reading that will have already been down the path of choosing a different library destination and the process failing.


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## kgdrum (Mar 22, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but towards the top, under the "Cause" heading, they say:
> "The installation process of a Native Instruments product requires temporarily extra space on your internal hard drive (or 'system drive'), even if you want to install the product on an external hard drive."
> 
> They're not _directly_ saying that changing the path won't work, but the implication is there, especially since most people reading that will have already been down the path of choosing a different library destination and the process failing.


Unfortunately I think Native Access actually wants more than double the drive space Ni says it needs or the app doesn’t calculate the available space correctly.
In my case I was trying to install an AMAZING STRING LIBRARY from a BRILLIANTLY TALENTED DEBONAIR DEVELOPER who I now suspect has an awesome porn collection!
Sunset Strings (12gig) couldn’t be installed via NA when I had ample room throughout my system.
I had 32gig of available space on my boot drive,250 gig on my download drive and 500 gig on my sample drive (for content) and NA wouldn’t install the library until I changed my boot drive and doubled the size of the boot drive.
So from my experience I suspect NA isn’t able to read Mac boot drives accurately to actually know how much space is actually available for installation.
Theoretically it might require twice the size of the installation but with the apparent limitation of NA to do this successfully in Mac OS I suspect it needs more than double the size of the installation.


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## EvilDragon (Mar 22, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but towards the top, under the "Cause" heading, they say:
> "The installation process of a Native Instruments product requires temporarily extra space on your internal hard drive (or 'system drive'), even if you want to install the product on an external hard drive."



Installing a product _to a particular location/path_, is different from _downloading temporary ISO image with the installer to a different location/path. _Which is what I'd like to ascertain here.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2021)

EvilDragon said:


> That temporary folder is only created by NA when you start a download. But NA probably doesn't let you download since your download path still seems to be set to your boot drive, or something? I'm unsure what is going on there.
> 
> 1. Open NA preferences
> 2. Set download path to a non-boot drive which has enough room to download stuff
> ...


I up and did that, ED, as per your original instructions. No joy.


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## Michel Simons (Mar 22, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> I finally heard back from NI this morning (okay, I admit I didn't actually ask until this morning) and this is an issue they're aware of and it does seem to be Mac specific. Here's a page where they explain the problem. Until they fix it (I get the feeling they've been stumped for a while on this one, so it might not be soon), you do indeed need double the size of the library available on your system drive, even if you select a non-system drive as the destination.
> 
> I see three options:
> 
> ...


1. Who puts his porn collection on the system drive?
2. Is this mystery library by any chance the fabled 'N'?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 23, 2021)

What I have to do: move my photos to another drive. That will free up 100GB or so.

What Apple's instructions tell you to do: use their cloud storage, which even with the $.99/month I pay to stop the "out of storage" messages on my iPhone isn't close to being big enough for all that porn.

Also, the global climate is rising.


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## novaburst (Mar 23, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'm trying to install a library that's about 14GB.


Not being funny but ssd are dirt cheap for some reason on amazon not sure if this is a growing trend


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 23, 2021)

novaburst said:


> Not being funny but ssd are dirt cheap for some reason on amazon not sure if this is a growing trend



Right, I have plenty of storage, just not on my startup drive.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 23, 2021)

OH MY GOD!

I now have 111GB free on the drive, restarted, ran Disk Utility, yes I emptied the trash...

And Native Access still says it doesn't have enough free space - but now requires 55GB and wants me to free up an additional 40GB!

This is unbelievable.


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## Mike Greene (Mar 23, 2021)

Ugh. My first thought would be to make sure Native Access isn't expecting to install a _bunch_ of libraries, as opposed to just the Mystery Library, because 55 GB is definitely way more than the Mystery Library needs. (Which is amazing in and of itself. I mean, how did they cram so much quality into so few gigabytes???)

I would also restart the Mac, because it sounds like NA still thinks you have only 15 GB of free space (55 - 40 = 15), so maybe that needs to refresh. In their doc, they say you need to see how much you have by checking Disk Utility, as opposed to the Get Info number on the desktop.

This is all new to me, though, so if that still doesn't work, I'd install NA on the Rapmistress Shel E. computer, log in as you, and install there. Then copy it onto your computer. Then click the Native Access "Locate" button on your rig and you should be all set.


----------



## kgdrum (Mar 23, 2021)

@Nick Batzdorf 
WTF that is really crazy! Have you asked the developer if they can give you access to the files so you can install the library and then only need NA to authorize?
Something is obviously wrong with Native Access’s ability to figure out how much available space is actually on the drives.
I suspect it’s more of a Mac OS/NA compatibility issue as I don’t think I hear this from Windows users.


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## kgdrum (Mar 23, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> Ugh. My first thought would be to make sure Native Access isn't expecting to install a _bunch_ of libraries, as opposed to just the Mystery Library, because 55 GB is definitely way more than the Mystery Library needs. (Which is amazing in and of itself. I mean, how did they cram so much quality into so few gigabytes???)


@Mike Greene 
Yes it is amazing how much quality this developer can fit into this Mystery library,they must be brilliant, a once in a generation talent,extremely handsome and have a wife that bakes killer brownies (so I’ve heard). 
Somehow this sounds eerily familiar............


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 23, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> @Nick Batzdorf
> WTF that is really crazy! Have you asked the developer if they can give you access to the files so you can install the library and then only need NA to authorize?
> Something is obviously wrong with Native Access’s ability to figure out how much available space is actually on the drives.
> I suspect it’s more of a Mac OS/NA compatibility issue as I don’t think I hear this from Windows users.



This developer is a really surly guy. I'd be afraid to.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 23, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> Ugh. My first thought would be to make sure Native Access isn't expecting to install a _bunch_ of libraries, as opposed to just the Mystery Library, because 55 GB is definitely way more than the Mystery Library needs. (Which is amazing in and of itself. I mean, how did they cram so much quality into so few gigabytes???)
> 
> I would also restart the Mac, because it sounds like NA still thinks you have only 15 GB of free space (55 - 40 = 15), so maybe that needs to refresh. In their doc, they say you need to see how much you have by checking Disk Utility, as opposed to the Get Info number on the desktop.
> 
> This is all new to me, though, so if that still doesn't work, I'd install NA on the Rapmistress Shel E. computer, log in as you, and install there. Then copy it onto your computer. Then click the Native Access "Locate" button on your rig and you should be all set.


I did restart several times, and yes, I'm only trying to install that one.
Will use my laptop rather than Rapmistress Shel E's.

Thanks.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 23, 2021)

Seriously, this is now almost funny.

So I didn't have my NI password to get into Native Access on the other machine. Okay, I reset the password after it sent me the email.

It let me in... and shows no NI products installed. Sure, no problem. I only have 50 billion NI products.

Never mind, so I try to add a serial for this library again.

Now where the fuck is the serial? Click on "Where do I find my serial number?"

"You can find your serial number on the leaflet inside the package your software came in."

Here's your package. 

Wow.


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## Mike Greene (Mar 23, 2021)

If it shows no products, there's a good chance this might be a different account you're logged into. (We see this a lot.) I would double check by going to your main computer, launch Keychain Access, then search nativeaccess, and it will show you what your log in credentials are, including your password.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 23, 2021)

Thanks Mike.

What is it about the subhuman brain that shuts down about 15 hours into a troubleshooting nightmare?

I think what's happening is that there are some hidden snapshots taking up space, according to the Internet.


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## kgdrum (Mar 23, 2021)

@Nick Batzdorf
I know you don’t want to do this but I still think the easiest way to solve this is wipe a large HD temporarily, clone your boot drive,install the Mystery library and then put your real boot drive back.
Once I cloned my drive to a larger drive my library install horror-show installed in like 10 minutes.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 24, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> @Nick Batzdorf
> I know you don’t want to do this but I still think the easiest way to solve this is wipe a large HD temporarily, clone your boot drive,install the Mystery library and then put your real boot drive back.
> Once I cloned my drive to a larger drive my library install horror-show installed in like 10 minutes.



I have plenty of free space now that I moved my photos to an external drive.

MacOS now distinguishes between available space and free space. Trouble in APFS paradise.

And as Mike says, I'm having problems logging into the right NI account on another machine (so I can download it and copy it over). Creating a new startup drive wouldn't help.

That aside, seriously? What happens if someone needs to download a large Kontakt sample library?


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## jbuhler (Mar 24, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I have plenty of free space now that I moved my photos to an external drive.
> 
> MacOS now distinguishes between available space and free space. Trouble in APFS paradise.
> 
> ...


Clearly we all need to invest in machines with at least a 1 TB system drive whose only function is to download sample libraries that we can then move into place.


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## Mike Greene (Mar 24, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> That aside, seriously? What happens if someone needs to download a large Kontakt sample library?


I think they're screwed. Which is why I think NI is taking this seriously.

My rep says they're on it, of course, but you know how that is. (Kinda like when I tell people, _"Oh yeah, we're definitely gonna include all the things you've asked for in the next update. And it will be out next week."_) I do believe him on this, though, because even though for li'l ol' Realitone, this has been a problem for exactly two people (both of whom are in this thread,) they have some much bigger companies with much bigger libraries who must be screaming bloody murder about this.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 24, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> I think they're screwed. Which is why I think NI is taking this seriously.
> 
> My rep says they're on it, of course, but you know how that is. (Kinda like when I tell people, _"Oh yeah, we're definitely gonna include all the things you've asked for in the next update. And it will be out next week."_) I do believe him on this, though, because even though for li'l ol' Realitone, this has been a problem for exactly two people (both of whom are in this thread,) they have some much bigger companies with much bigger libraries who must be screaming bloody murder about this.


I don't think I spelled it out clearly in this thread, but the source of the issue is that APFS (or macOS?) is distinguishing between free and available space, and Native Access is taking its cue from there. The key is how to remove the snapshot file or whatever it is.

Well, the key is for Native Access to let you tell it where to put the damn files. But still.


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## Mike Greene (Mar 24, 2021)

That's weird that MacOS seems to make a distinction between free space and available space. The difference is apparently the "purgeable space." In your case, 86.91 GB. It's free space, but Mac is saving it until they're convinced it _has_ to be used.

On Google, people are saying you can't manually clear that purgeable space, because Apple saves it for your iCloud sync, and only clears it when it _needs_ the space. Apparently "purgeable" space is deleted stuff that's iCloud related.

My guess is that keeping the purgeable items on your hard drive saves Apple some money in bandwidth for the people who constantly upload and download and upload and download the same pix or movies or whatever. So if you download the same pix from iCloud that you "deleted" a few days earlier, Apples saves a few bandwidth pennies because they're _already_ secretly on your computer. So they don't want to delete that space until they're forced to.

So here's my theory on what might clear it. Find something that is 40GB or larger (*not* iCloud related) and copy that onto your desktop. That should force the Mac to delete some of the purgeable space. Then delete that 40GB object (or objects) and since it's not iCloud related, I'll bet you now have 40 GB of "free" space.

You wouldn't necessarily have to copy something from an external source, by the way. You could duplicate an existing file (or files) on your current drive, as long as it isn't iCloud related. Or record a massive Pro Tools session with 80 tracks at 192k. Whatever it takes to force the Mac to make some room.


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## MartinH. (Mar 24, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> That's weird that MacOS seems to make a distinction between free space and available space. The difference is apparently the "purgeable space." In your case, 86.91 GB. It's free space, but Mac is saving it until they're convinced it _has_ to be used.
> 
> On Google, people are saying you can't manually clear that purgeable space, because Apple saves it for your iCloud sync, and only clears it when it _needs_ the space. Apparently "purgeable" space is deleted stuff that's iCloud related.
> 
> ...



"apple - it just works"


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## rnb_2 (Mar 24, 2021)

This is certainly an area where Apple's desire to obfuscate what is happening is unfortunate. For most people who don't install multi-gigabyte sample libraries (the vast majority of users), it probably works fine, but we're not those people, and I can see how Apple's handling of the local iCloud cache could cause major headaches for something like Native Access. The OS won't purge the space until it's needed, and the installer won't let you proceed until the space is available.

This is one of the reasons that I don't really use iCloud for a lot beyond Photos, and why I put my Photos library either on an external drive or create an APFS volume with a small maximum size for it.


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## jcrosby (Mar 24, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> That's weird that MacOS seems to make a distinction between free space and available space. The difference is apparently the "purgeable space." In your case, 86.91 GB. It's free space, but Mac is saving it until they're convinced it _has_ to be used.
> 
> On Google, people are saying you can't manually clear that purgeable space, because Apple saves it for your iCloud sync, and only clears it when it _needs_ the space. Apparently "purgeable" space is deleted stuff that's iCloud related.
> 
> ...


Actually according to this link Time Machine may be a big factor. Also unknown to many is that CCC can use the same feature depending on how you have, or leave it set.

I experienced this same issue more or less a few years back when I discovered my drive shrinking at ridiculous rate. At one point I thought I had 300+ GB of 'ghost data' that I could see in a handy little free app called GrandPerspective that couldn't be accounted for and couldn't be recovered. (Not so) hilariously, several calls to Apple left me with no answers, (duh!). Meanwhile my drive was shrinking and not a single person in support had a clue this feature even existed.

One email to Bombich resolved the issue immediately.

No Short Version: Time Machine (by default IIRC) will enable something called Time Machine Snapshots. These are theoretically really useful. I.e. If you discover a critical bug that shows up after updating macos a local snapshot can be used to immediately roll the OS back to its previous state without having to restore the entire drive.

The downside to snapshots is that a new one is created for every single backup you do, they eat insane amounts of space over time, and you can only turn them on or off globally. I believe these are also turned on by default. In the case of time machine this means a snapshot is created for every single event every hour on the hour which adds up to a lot of space over time.

And, as I mentioned... CCC can use the same 'purgeable' space to create rollback points. Anyone using CCC for clones may have local snapshots enabled and be unaware of it. Like I said these can save your ass... The problem is that they tend to eat your drive really fast so it's questionable why there isn't a preference that would allow you to enable/disable them per backup, or allow you to reserve them for OS-only updates.... (No shade at Bombich. Apple controls all the keys to this feature). 

For those that do use CCC - One way you can leverage these is to enable them only when doing an OS update. Given that macos has had a recent history of audio bugs (at least on MBs..) I personally leave automatic updates off, and turn CCC snapshots on before I install any macos update. Once I can verify the update didn't cripple core audio I untick snapshots and the space used by the update comes right back...









DaisyDisk, the most popular disk analyzer for Mac


Free up gigabytes of disk space in minutes using the visual interactive map that reveals the biggest space hogs on your disk.




daisydiskapp.com






Even if you don't use CCC this is a better read... It goes into more detail and gives you some ideas how/when they can save your ass...






Leveraging Snapshots on APFS Volumes | Carbon Copy Cloner | Bombich Software







bombich.com


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## jcrosby (Mar 24, 2021)

Since my previous post is kind of long winded I didn't want the most important bits getting buried in a post that was TLDR for most people...

HOW TO CHECK FOR/DISABLE/ENABLE SNAPSHOTS:

Time Machine: How to disable Snapshots. (And check if they're enabled by default)

*EDIT*: Apparently as of 10.14 you can't just toggle this on or off, but have to brute force remove them using terminal. One more vote for CCC over TM....









How to delete Time Machine snapshots on your Mac


These snapshots can fill up a drive, even though macOS should manage them.




www.macworld.com





CCC: Same link as above... Scroll down to the section called *Toggling Snapshot Support/Snapshot Retention Policy*:





Leveraging Snapshots on APFS Volumes | Carbon Copy Cloner | Bombich Software







bombich.com


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## dflood (Mar 24, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> "apple - it just works"


just not how you expected


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 25, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Since my previous post is kind of long winded I didn't want the most important bits getting buried in a post that was TLDR for most people...
> 
> HOW TO CHECK FOR/DISABLE/ENABLE SNAPSHOTS:
> 
> ...


Thanks, and yeah, I read that. 10.14.6 doesn't let you do that.

I'm not using CCC, so that's not it.


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## Mike Greene (Mar 25, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Thanks, and yeah, I read that. 10.14.6 doesn't let you do that.
> 
> I'm not using CCC, so that's not it.


Nick, did you try this, that I posted above?

_Find something that is 40GB or larger (*not* iCloud related) and copy that onto your desktop. That should force the Mac to delete some of the purgeable space. Then delete that 40GB object (or objects) and since it's not iCloud related, I'll bet you now have 40 GB of "free" space.

You wouldn't necessarily have to copy something from an external source, by the way. You could duplicate an existing file (or files) on your current drive, as long as it isn't iCloud related. Or record a massive Pro Tools session with 80 tracks at 192k. Whatever it takes to force the Mac to make some room._


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 25, 2021)

Guess what? Apparently Time Machine gets rid of its snapshot next backup.

It worked (that is, I've now successfully downloaded the mystery library). NI still needs to solve the problem for larger libraries, but at least this worked. Note that I didn't change anything since yesterday.


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## kgdrum (Mar 25, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Guess what? Apparently Time Machine gets rid of its snapshot next backup.
> 
> It worked (that is, I've now successfully downloaded the mystery library). NI still needs to solve the problem for larger libraries, but at least this worked. Note that I didn't change anything since yesterday.


@Nick Batzdorf

Congratulations! 👍

As I said to our mystery developer who happens to be incredibly talented,handsome & debonair:

Besides all of the fun this was easy enough!


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## Ben H (Mar 25, 2021)

Thread title should be changed to "Another reason why Macs SUCK!!!!!!!!"


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 25, 2021)

I love Macs.


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## HeliaVox (Mar 25, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I love Macs.


ME TOOOOOOOO


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## PhilA (Jun 20, 2021)

Hi, I’ve just come across this very issue.
So Native Access is apparently checking the free space in a way different to other apps, as it’s seeing the free space as disk utility reports it and isn’t taking into account purgable space which is free if it wants to use it.
Quick solution is to find a large sample library in one of your SDD’s initiate a copy of this to your system drive. Watch disk utility and as soon as the space has been purged to accept the file copy (in seconds) cancel the copy. Voila you have your free space back in a way Native Access can see. They really need to fix this bug and claim the purgable space automatically like other apps can do.
Still this is a very quick work around.
(Ps for the Mac naysayers this is an NI bug not a MacOS bug)


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## X-Bassist (Jun 20, 2021)

PhilA said:


> Hi, I’ve just come across this very issue.
> So Native Access is apparently checking the free space in a way different to other apps, as it’s seeing the free space as disk utility reports it and isn’t taking into account purgable space which is free if it wants to use it.
> Quick solution is to find a large sample library in one of your SDD’s initiate a copy of this to your system drive. Watch disk utility and as soon as the space has been purged to accept the file copy (in seconds) cancel the copy. Voila you have your free space back in a way Native Access can see. They really need to fix this bug and claim the purgable space automatically like other apps can do.
> Still this is a very quick work around.
> (Ps for the Mac naysayers this is an NI bug not a MacOS bug)


Ahhh, but you would still need to have the space on your internal for this to work. For someone like me who has 10GB left and nothing else to remove, your kind of stuck without cloning the internal and booting on the clone to download your library. sucks!


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## PhilA (Jun 20, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> Ahhh, but you would still need to have the space on your internal for this to work. For someone like me who has 10GB left and nothing else to remove, your kind of stuck without cloning the internal and booting on the clone to download your library. sucks!


Very true I had 120gb free and couldn’t install a 20gb library. It’s rubbish, if I say use my alternate download and install location it should honour it full stop!


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## paulmatthew (Jun 20, 2021)

3 months later and this is still an issue. 1 TB free on a ssd and 300GB free on desktop and Native Access was gicing me a hard time installing Solo because of this problem. I won't be buying anything else that has to be downloaded through Native Access until this gets fixed. As long as it can be downloaded through the developer it's a go.


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## Soundbed (Jun 20, 2021)

Yeah this seems like an NI issue (on Mac?), not a Mac issue per se.

And it doesn’t seem like it’s _necessarily_ related to iCloud or Time Machine.

I just got an M1 MBP and clicked a handful of libraries to download and install.

The libraries dutifully queued up in Native Access. Until I clicked one ~10GB library and was told Native Access wanted 900GB to install it.

I should have taken a screenshot.

iCloud is not connected (afaik). Time Machine was not yet set up. No external drives were attached. The 1 TB internal drive had barely been used.

Native Access definitely seemed to be calculating based on space it might use in the future _for the other queued downloads_ rather than actual space needed for the library I’d clicked.

In fact all the libraries I wanted downloaded fine … when I installed them one at a time (not all queued).

Most (all?) other Mac download utilities I know don’t calculate needed space this way.

It’s not until you have a completely fresh Mac that a “test” like this removes some variables.


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## X-Bassist (Jun 20, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> 3 months later and this is still an issue. 1 TB free on a ssd and 300GB free on desktop and Native Access was gicing me a hard time installing Solo because of this problem. I won't be buying anything else that has to be downloaded through Native Access until this gets fixed. As long as it can be downloaded through the developer it's a go.


For me it’s been longer than 3 months (I think), but def after the last upldate to Native Access. Been on high Sierra for years without issue and don’t use Time machine or any other auto backup system.

NI clearly screwed the pooch and has taken it’s sweet time getting the next update done.

Hey, I’ve got a crazy idea... how about letting us revert back to the past working version? This is were NI is really screwed in the head. I can’t believe Avid let’s you do this with Pro Tools but Native Access doesn’t. Brilliant NI. 🙄


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## paulmatthew (Jun 20, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> For me it’s been longer than 3 months (I think), but def after the last upldate to Native Access. Been on high Sierra for years without issue and don’t use Time machine or any other auto backup system.
> 
> NI clearly screwed the pooch and has taken it’s sweet time getting the next update done.
> 
> Hey, I’ve got a crazy idea... how about letting us revert back to the past working version? This is were NI is really screwed in the head. I can’t believe Avid let’s you do this with Pro Tools but Native Access doesn’t. Brilliant NI. 🙄


The problem it seems is that it requires twice the download size on both main drive and the drive you're actually downloading it to. It makes no sense to have it scan and setup this way.


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## GR-Productions (Jun 20, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> The problem it seems is that it requires twice the download size on both main drive and the drive you're actually downloading it to. It makes no sense to have it scan and setup this way.


and hackers are bragging about been able to download it on any drive and it works....I googled up Ni torrent just to see and its all over the place...

disclaimer: I dont advise anyone using cracked software, dont trust it, believe me when I tell you, I once went to help a friend with a session, he had the same everything on his iMac, yet I noticed significant memory drain and a everything running slower with a session from my own iMac, not to mention freezing up and that beachball, and in Catalina.. I guess my point is its still embarrassing we paid for this and kids are running circles around on us with pirated software that does what we expect developers to design their large capacity software to do, simply allow us to use ext drives..


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## el-bo (Jun 20, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Until I clicked one ~10GB library and was told Native Access wanted 900GB to install it.


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## paulmatthew (Jun 20, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> For me it’s been longer than 3 months (I think), but def after the last upldate to Native Access. Been on high Sierra for years without issue and don’t use Time machine or any other auto backup system.
> 
> NI clearly screwed the pooch and has taken it’s sweet time getting the next update done.
> 
> Hey, I’ve got a crazy idea... how about letting us revert back to the past working version? This is were NI is really screwed in the head. I can’t believe Avid let’s you do this with Pro Tools but Native Access doesn’t. Brilliant NI. 🙄


I'm a big fan of Continuata and Pulse. Downloads are fast and I've never had an issue with download and install. Nothing worse than trying to download a large library where the servers won't give you more than 3 mbps down but at least you won't have to deal with cannot install library messages due to not enough disk space on one of 2 drives. Consistent fails with large file downloads from NI servers and Native Access too. I'd rather have a developer pay the fee to have their libraries available on a faster download server than pay the fee to have it available for the free player as a tabbed Kontakt library but that's a whole other pandora's box for another thread.


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## X-Bassist (Jun 22, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> I'm a big fan of Continuata and Pulse. Downloads are fast and I've never had an issue with download and install. Nothing worse than trying to download a large library where the servers won't give you more than 3 mbps down but at least you won't have to deal with cannot install library messages due to not enough disk space on one of 2 drives. Consistent fails with large file downloads from NI servers and Native Access too. I'd rather have a developer pay the fee to have their libraries available on a faster download server than pay the fee to have it available for the free player as a tabbed Kontakt library but that's a whole other pandora's box for another thread.


I like Pulse, seems to work well. Continuata always worked well for me, but in the last few years I only know of 8Dio and Cinesamples that uses it. With all their libraries and affiliate sales, you'd think NI must be swamped with complaints (even if it's just mac users with less than 100GB of internal space).
Very odd they would not be on this. Or at least let us revert back to a working version.


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## redpola (Jun 23, 2021)

Hi. I just happened upon this thread and would like to add to it.

I was a beta tester for native access and reported this as a showstopper bug before native access was even released to the public.

It’s just insane that I could have a 1TB external hard drive but because I only have 10GB free on my internal drive I can’t install anything *to that external drive*.

NI’s official response was to download everything separately. Here’s the list of download links for K12UCE

https://drive.google.com/open?id=16mfRPBsXD1eegmTAS1h7y-RF6Uw3XU3IpGCGKKV_AKA
Edit: this link was posted by an NI customer support representative in a thread which has since been deleted here https://support.native-instruments....or-s-despite-plenty-of-free-disk-space-en-us-


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## dflood (Jun 23, 2021)

I must not understand all of the implications. How many lines of code would be needed to designate an external drive as the temporary download buffer?


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## AceAudioHQ (Jun 23, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> every of your drive should have 15% free space after all is installed.


Depends on the drive, generally ssd’s need 25% empty space to function at full speed, anything less will slow them down, but some never ones are overprovisioned so there's hidden free space and you can use more of the drive


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## pulsedownloader (Jun 23, 2021)

redpola said:


> Hi. I just happened upon this thread and would like to add to it.
> 
> I was a beta tester for native access and reported this as a showstopper bug before native access was even released to the public.
> 
> ...


Not sure you should be posting those links


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## LamaRose (Jun 23, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> I'm a big fan of Continuata and Pulse. Downloads are fast and I've never had an issue with download and install.


Same here... I live high in the mountains, and even though I have 25mb/s fiber, never once came close to that potential until recently downloading via Pulse which was hitting around 22mb/s.

Already posted something to this affect elsewhere, but I'm convinced that N.I. is partly responsible for the rash of developers missing release dates... the first one affecting me being Sunset Strings. Still haven't downloaded the official player version release due to this nonsense.


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## redpola (Jun 23, 2021)

pulsedownloader said:


> Not sure you should be posting those links


They were posted by an NI staff member on the NI support site as a solution to this problem. I’m not making anything public that was not already public. I’m pretty sure NI support staff were emailing this document around in official support responses too.


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## redpola (Jun 23, 2021)

dflood said:


> I must not understand all of the implications. How many lines of code would be needed to designate an external drive as the temporary download buffer?


That’s not the issue. Even if you set your download directory to be on an external drive Native Access still requires almost twice the install size free on your internal drive before proceeding.

As a software engineer for decades, and an engineering manager for some of that time, my opinion is that it’s like NI went out of their way to make this not work. If they just used the Apple installer mechanism and installed from an external drive, it would work.


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## rrichard63 (Jun 23, 2021)

The real mystery is why it is taking Native Instruments so long to deal with this. I can only speculate, and the reasons that have occurred to me so far do not reflect well on Native Instruments as a company.


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## dflood (Jun 24, 2021)

redpola said:


> That’s not the issue. Even if you set your download directory to be on an external drive Native Access still requires almost twice the install size free on your internal drive before proceeding.
> 
> As a software engineer for decades, and an engineering manager for some of that time, my opinion is that it’s like NI went out of their way to make this not work. If they just used the Apple installer mechanism and installed from an external drive, it would work.


I might be wrong but I assumed the designated download directory was the final install location for the unzipped libraries and that Native Access is still using a temporary file buffer on the system drive for its presumably compressed files download. If that’s not the case then the problem seems all the more bone-headed.


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## hpskurdal (Jun 24, 2021)

LANDFORMS requires around 280gb free on your main hard drive for the installation process, even though the library is a quarter of this size.
This needed to be solved with Native support sending me with an external download link. Strange the Native Access needs up to 4 times the size of the plugin to install.


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## hpskurdal (Jun 24, 2021)

hpskurdal said:


> LANDFORMS requires around 280gb free on your main hard drive for the installation process, even though the library is a quarter of this size.
> This needed to be solved with Native support sending me with an external download link. Strange the Native Access needs up to 4 times the size of the plugin to install.


First after installation on my main HD, I was able to move the data around 77Gb to my external HD.


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## Mike Greene (Jun 24, 2021)

LamaRose said:


> ... the first one affecting me being Sunset Strings. Still haven't downloaded the official player version release due to this nonsense.


You’re not alone, so we have a rar files option, so you can do it the “traditional way.”  Send us an email to support at Realitone and we’ll give you links.


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## rnb_2 (Jun 24, 2021)

dflood said:


> I might be wrong but I assumed the designated download directory was the final install location for the unzipped libraries and that Native Access is still using a temporary file buffer on the system drive for its presumably compressed files download. If that’s not the case then the problem seems all the more bone-headed.


At least on the Mac, there are separate Download and Content locations - the latter is where everything ends up after install, and one would reasonably assume that the former is where the downloads should be going. There seems to be hidden step where it downloads to the system drive first, then copies to the Downloads location, then installs to the Content location.


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## JamieB (Apr 22, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I use SuperDuper for bootable clones, which is basically the same thing as CCC. But I rely on Time Machine backups that are done every hour.
> 
> That's backupS plural - alternating drives, one of which is attached to a router, and it contains backups of multiple Macs.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this tip, Nick. I just bought NI's LORES which wanted me to clear more than 80GB from my system drive. Ugh. I am lucky to operate with around 50GB free which I've done for years on Mojave. Followed your advice, got SuperDuper! to clone my system drive and LORES is installing now.
Incredibly frustrating to have to do this to install an instrument. I frequently buy large libraries and always have the option to install to my RAID array, except using Native Access.
This will certainly be a consideration before I purchase another library from NI. Nowhere on the product page did they make it clear that the 70+GB of space needed was on the actual system drive. I wouldn't have purchased had I known that.
I really appreciate this tip. You were way more helpful than any information I could find on NI's pages. Thanks, mate.


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## tmhuud (Apr 22, 2022)

This is STILL an issue? Shame on you NI. We stopped installing anything on the host for months due due to this silliness. Glad to hear there’s a workaround!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 22, 2022)

tmhuud said:


> This is STILL an issue? Shame on you NI. We stopped installing anything on the host for months due due to this silliness. Glad to hear there’s a workaround!


Yeah, I'm surprised they wouldn't have fixed this by now.


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## cedricm (Apr 22, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> This is a new one on me. I have 28GB free on my startup drive (Mojave), which is how it's been for years, and I've installed huge libraries as recently as a few days ago.
> 
> I'm trying to install a library that's about 14GB.
> 
> ...


Native Access is one of the biggest PoS software I've had the non-pleasure to use in decades. 
I've reported bugs that were ignored. I told them about the ridiculous amount of free space necessary (pro tip: don't queue installs, it would be too convenient). 
The only response I got was links to download single installers.


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## Quasar (Apr 22, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Yeah, I'm surprised they wouldn't have fixed this by now.


How could ANYTHING NI does or fails to do possibly surprise you? I've read enough of your posts to know that you're smarter than that.


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## timbit2006 (Apr 22, 2022)

So what are those of us who have a small startup SSD supposed to do here, delete our OS just to download Kontakt libraries?? NI is extraordinarily short sighted
This also forces you to download directly to your small SSD which has a small write lifespan compared to larger drives as well. Premature SSD failure is not fun at all, I've been there.


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## rnb_2 (Apr 22, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> So what are those of us who have a small startup SSD supposed to do here, delete our OS just to download Kontakt libraries?? NI is extraordinarily short sighted
> This also forces you to download directly to your small SSD which has a small write lifespan compared to larger drives as well. Premature SSD failure is not fun at all, I've been there.


I think the best option people have come up with on the Mac is to clone your OS drive to a larger external SSD (so you'll have the necessary room), boot from that drive to do the install, and then boot from the internal after installation.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 22, 2022)

Quasar said:


> How could ANYTHING NI does or fails to do possibly surprise you? I've read enough of your posts to know that you're smarter than that.


Me?! Smarter than that?!

I resent the accusation!

(Seriously, they didn't get where they are by being idiots. Their software doesn't suck.)


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## paulmatthew (Apr 22, 2022)

This is one of the main reasons I have limited what I buy regarding the Kontakt Player libraries and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The bigger the library is , the less likely I am to buy it. I could care a less if it's in my library tab or has NKS encoding. Unfortunately , there are a lot of users who do rely on NKS. NI needs to fix this long running issue.


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## jariyasur (Apr 29, 2022)

For most people who don't install multi-gigabyte sample libraries, it probably works fine, but we're not those people, and I can see how Apple's handling of the local iCloud cache could cause major headaches for something like Native Access. 
dickssportinggoods feedback www.lowes.com survey


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## keyinstruments (Apr 29, 2022)

Yes, it requires a lot of free disk space, due to mounting, installation files for both operating systems, etc. But, fear not... They are working on Native Access 2, where they estimate to only need double the size of a library download for installation purpose. Much better than 3-4 times the size they need now.


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## tmhuud (Apr 29, 2022)

jariyasur said:


> For most people who don't install multi-gigabyte sample libraries, it probably works fine, but we're not those people, and I can see how Apple's handling of the local iCloud cache could cause major headaches for something like Native Access.


I can see how everything APPLE does causes migraines for developers.


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## Flux (May 14, 2022)

Has anyone found a workaround to this problem? I need to install Cineperc, and I have 300GB available on my Mac HD, and have the download location on my external SSD which has 400GB available, yet NI is telling me I need 108GB available? Wtf is going on Native Instruments? I need this library tomorrow and there's no way for me to install it. I've deleted about 100GB of content and it hasn't made a budge in the number.

I screenshotted my Storage information. I think the numbers are all wonky because of Dropbox and iCloud storage, so the numbers don't line up, but does anyone know how I get that system number down? Something is off.


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## rrichard63 (May 14, 2022)

Flux said:


> I've deleted about 100GB of content and it hasn't made a budge in the number.


I don't know whether this is true on Macs, but on Windows deleting files only moves them to a "Trash" folder. Some Windows components report the space as free and available, but I believe that some applications think it's occupied. Try emptying the trash after you delete a bunch of large files.


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## Flux (May 14, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> I don't know whether this is true on Macs, but on Windows deleting files only moves them to a "Trash" folder. Some Windows components report the space as free and available, but I believe that some applications think it's occupied. Try emptying the trash after you delete a bunch of large files.


Already did, nothing changed.

Actually no, the number went UP! Now it needs 110GB lmao what is this program man

Edit: Ok I went into Disk Utility and it looks like I only have 40GB available on Macintosh HD vs the 330GB available on Macintosh HD - Data. I have no idea what the difference is or how I can get more space here. I'm assuming this is what Native Access is looking at.


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## micrologus (May 14, 2022)

deactivate Time Machine, then restart 2-3 times…


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## vallisoftware (May 14, 2022)

Have you tried going into Native Access perferences and change both the *Download* and *Content* location?


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## micrologus (May 14, 2022)

It seems that the finder needs some time to understand that you deleted the files to create free space on the startup disk


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## Flux (May 14, 2022)

I found the solution!



> I found this on another forum but it worked perfectly for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Source: https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/not-enough-space-on-drive-error.336839/page-2

Annoying that this had to be done for such a simple fix, but just happy I can install it in peace now


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## rnb_2 (May 14, 2022)

Flux said:


> Already did, nothing changed.
> 
> Actually no, the number went UP! Now it needs 110GB lmao what is this program man
> 
> Edit: Ok I went into Disk Utility and it looks like I only have 40GB available on Macintosh HD vs the 330GB available on Macintosh HD - Data. I have no idea what the difference is or how I can get more space here. I'm assuming this is what Native Access is looking at.


Glad that you found the solution, and I hope that NI fixes it sometime soon.

Just to clarify what you're seeing here - macOS combines "Macintosh HD" and the corresponding "Data" volume so that it looks like one drive to applications. "Macintosh HD" is just the operating system, and nothing else is allowed to put anything there - it's read-only. The "Data" volume is where everything else goes.


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