# The Jazz, Big Band, Noire, Pop, Reggae - Brass Favorite Vst-Talk



## Marsen (Jun 25, 2022)

Now, where Diamond Jazz Orchestra shortly will be released, what are you’re favorite libraries, regarding most versatile usage in the genres, mentioned above?

I‘m personally looking for *Solo* and section Brass (out of *Solo* Vst‘s), which can (somehow) do the job, if client - can’t afford the real deal, or
- no time to record, just deliver for a snippet of a documentary, or a melody of a library track, …Solo/Sections for Pop, Reggae… you name it.

I did regularly Brass Recordings in my former studio with professional studio musicians around germany.
So with developers like Straight Ahead Samples, do you think, it’s possible to achieve some part of realism, enough to fool the client / publishers for some pieces?
(I know, the real thing is always better).

*What are your first choices?*

In (my)mind comes:
ProjectSAM Swing Series
Straight Ahead Samples
OT Glory Days
and opinions of upcoming Strezov Diamond Orchestra.

I‘m not into full Big Band composing, (not my cup of tea).
It‘s more about Solo and smaller sections of close recorded Solo Brass which can extend from Jazz to the named genres.


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## AlbertSmithers (Jun 25, 2022)

Have you considered Sample Modeling Brass? Some might not be able to tell the difference (I certainly can't, though I'm also not a trumpet/trombone/horn player).









The Trumpet 3 - Audio demos


Audio demos for The Trumpet 3 by Samplemodeling




www.samplemodeling.com


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## sumskilz (Jun 25, 2022)

Marsen said:


> I did regularly Brass Recordings in my former studio with professional studio musicians around germany.
> So with developers like Straight Ahead Samples, do you think, it’s possible to achieve some part of realism, enough to fool the client / publishers for some pieces?


I think so with Straight Ahead Samples, depending on the part, and I've worked with real players a lot. One thing that makes a huge difference, if the budget will allow, is to record a single player and then use VIs to fill in the rest of the section. If you need to use all VIs, just keep the parts relatively simple, which is preferable anyway for the genres you're talking about.

I expect the Atomic Big Band horns will be better for pop stylistically than their current offerings. They say there will be more demos in different styles before their release.


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## Jrides (Jun 26, 2022)

AlbertSmithers said:


> Have you considered Sample Modeling Brass? Some might not be able to tell the difference (I certainly can't, though I'm also not a trumpet/trombone/horn player).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


this will probably get you the closest. SAS does not have that high energy layer needed to do big band properly. Not with their current offerings.

8dio bible of pop, Latin, salsa can work in certain contexts for reggae and jazz. If you don’t mind fiddling around trying to address inconsistency. The usual suspects… Dynamic layers, articulations, etc.


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## Mikro93 (Jun 26, 2022)

Acoustic Samples' VHorns is amazing for jazz stuff! My go-to, no doubt about it. And quite cheap given the content


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## chopin4525 (Jun 26, 2022)

Mikro93 said:


> Acoustic Samples' VHorns is amazing for jazz stuff! My go-to, no doubt about it. And quite cheap given the content


No saxes or clarinets though...


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 26, 2022)

With some work, you can get good results from Session Horns Pro from Native Instruments.

I'm fond of the sound of Insanity Samples' New Orleans Brass, which is currently on sale; but I doubt it's as good as some of the other suggestions here.


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## Marsen (Jun 26, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> With some work, you can get good results from Session Horns Pro from Native Instruments.


Thanks Bee, but I don´t like the sound of Session Horns Pro at all. It might work in a section, but as Solo Instruments, to bloodless and artificial.


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## Marsen (Jun 26, 2022)

Thank you all, for your helpful responses so far.
The only mentioned vst, I own (besides Session Horns Pro), is 8Dio Bible of Pop and Salsa.
Till now I thought, sampled Jazz/Pop Solo Brass instruments all are sounding to artificial.
That´s why I didn´t even care of these kind of vst´s.

But then I heard Birth of a Trumpet with this smart delay function, and thought, maybe it´s time to think about it new. 

Today, I listened to Sample Modeling The Trumpet v3.
Sounds really good in my ears, but with all these countless keyswitches and controllers, it might be difficult and time consuming, to get those impressive results like in their demos? Maybe I´m wrong?
And I´m not going to spend another 300,00 for a breath controller at the moment.

I do like the smart delay function of Straight Ahead Samples (fast results), but to get convincing results, you have to work of course with keyswitches too (that´s fine).
Only thing is, it seems for some like Glissandi, you can´t make articulation sets, cause they have to start like in the middle, or near the end of a note (seen in a walkthrough video on yt).
And SAS is more or less only Jazz. 
Sample Modeling could work for Pop too, I feel.

Atomic Big Band seems to be more focused on Big Band with no softer dynamics.
And for the upcoming Diamond Orchestra, there is still no walkthrough for the Brass Solo instruments.

Will checking out V-Horns, thanks, but yeah...no Sax.


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## Rob (Jun 26, 2022)

Chris Hein horns are very good too, dry as a bone and with a true jazz tone...


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## Jrides (Jun 26, 2022)

You are correct… sample modeling brass is more complicated to use than a traditional sampled instrument. The closer to realistic sound, does come at a prize.


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## jonnybutter (Jun 26, 2022)

sumskilz said:


> I think so with Straight Ahead Samples, depending on the part, and I've worked with real players a lot. One thing that makes a huge difference, if the budget will allow, is to record a single player and then use VIs to fill in the rest of the section. If you need to use all VIs, just keep the parts relatively simple, which is preferable anyway for the genres you're talking about.
> 
> I expect the Atomic Big Band horns will be better for pop stylistically than their current offerings. They say there will be more demos in different styles before their release.


I second this strategy. It is brilliant and effective to use a live player or two and do the rest with e.g. Sample Modeling. That can work on quite a few instruments, not just brass


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## LHall (Jun 27, 2022)

I'd like to chime in about Sample Modeling. I use SM trumpets, bones, and horns almost every day. I use them for classical, jazz, pop, funk and they work brilliantly for all (well, I can't say I've used the French horns for funk - but who knows what's coming next week?). 

Regarding their complexity - they are the simplest of instruments I use. They do have a few keyswitches for things like falls, doits, etc. But 99% of the time I just use my TEC breathe controller and mod wheel and play in the parts. 

No, you can't play a chord on them. But you'll never ever get realistic results doing that with any library out there, IMO. Take the time to learn each instrument and you'll never regret the investment. 

The only thing that might be lacking is the super high screamer lead trumpet. For that, I'll layer Screaming Trumpet or something of that nature. Otherwise, SM does just about everything. 

Mixing them with Audio Modeling's saxes, winds, and flutes - you've got it all covered except strings. I put them all in "the same room" using VSS 2.0. I'm sure there are other virtual stages as well that would work great.


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## Markrs (Jun 27, 2022)

LHall said:


> I'd like to chime in about Sample Modeling. I use SM trumpets, bones, and horns almost every day. I use them for classical, jazz, pop, funk and they work brilliantly for all (well, I can't say I've used the French horns for funk - but who knows what's coming next week?).
> 
> Regarding their complexity - they are the simplest of instruments I use. They do have a few keyswitches for things like falls, doits, etc. But 99% of the time I just use my TEC breathe controller and mod wheel and play in the parts.
> 
> ...


I would love to hear some examples if you have any you can share as I am still on the fence regarding Jazz style libraries worth getting.


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## LHall (Jun 27, 2022)

Here's a couple of things. One is from my solo project "An Evening With You". The other is a snippet of the horn stems only I did for a singer. It's Q's arrangement of Fly Me To The Moon - just the horn break.


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## Markrs (Jun 27, 2022)

LHall said:


> Here's a couple of things. One is from my solo project "An Evening With You". The other is a snippet of the horn stems only I did for a singer. It's Q's arrangement of Fly Me To The Moon - just the horn break.


Fantastic tracks, thank you. Love that brass sound!


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## Mikro93 (Jun 27, 2022)

LHall said:


> Here's a couple of things. One is from my solo project "An Evening With You". The other is a snippet of the horn stems only I did for a singer. It's Q's arrangement of Fly Me To The Moon - just the horn break.


Fly Me @0:26 got me like "WOW that's nice"

Thanks for sharing!


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## Double Helix (Jun 27, 2022)

LHall said:


> Here's a couple of things. One is from my solo project "An Evening With You". The other is a snippet of the horn stems only I did for a singer. It's Q's arrangement of Fly Me To The Moon - just the horn break.


Wholly Shīʿa (!)
That is one well-rehearsed section


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 27, 2022)

LHall said:


> Here's a couple of things. One is from my solo project "An Evening With You". The other is a snippet of the horn stems only I did for a singer. It's Q's arrangement of Fly Me To The Moon - just the horn break.


These both sound amazing. The second demo is closer to the kinds of things I'm looking for most often. There were a couple of points where realism could be questioned; but it is unusually exposed. And, it sounds great and alive, with the right mood, feel and expression. That's what really sets it apart.


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## Double Helix (Jun 27, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> . . .There were a couple of points where realism could be questioned; but it is unusually exposed. . . .


Yes, my only critique (not "complaint") would be that those players are other-worldly tight. But I agree, Bee, that integrated in a track it would sound simply superb


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## Marsen (Jun 27, 2022)

LHall said:


> I'd like to chime in about Sample Modeling. I use SM trumpets, bones, and horns almost every day. I use them for classical, jazz, pop, funk and they work brilliantly for all (well, I can't say I've used the French horns for funk - but who knows what's coming next week?).
> 
> Regarding their complexity - they are the simplest of instruments I use. They do have a few keyswitches for things like falls, doits, etc. But 99% of the time I just use my TEC breathe controller and mod wheel and play in the parts.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your detailed response, much appreciated.

As I wrote, at the moment, I‘m not willing to buy a breath controller too.
I guess you use breath for expression, biting for flutter/groal?
Maybe head movement too?

I could write in the other cc‘s in daw, and may use only some of the keyswitches.
From what I read, you would recommend the whole bundle, right?
i only listened to the trumpet v3 so far.

I‘m aware of the monophonic nature from Sample Modeling.
And I share your view, never to use these kind of brass vst polophonic.
Regarding Audio Modeling, I don’t like the sound at all.

I also don’t need the loudest/screaming dynamics.

Your two pieces sound very good.
Can they stand out as Solo Instruments too in your opinion?
Thanks again.


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## LHall (Jun 28, 2022)

Thank you for your kind words! 

Yes, they can stand very well as solo instruments provided one takes the time to learn them well. I especially like the trombones for soloing. 

I humbly but strongly suggest you rethink the breath controller, though. I have the simple one that just does expression. It is so much more intuitive to literally breathe expression into your piece rather than play it statically and add CCs later. The investment is tiny compared to the benefits you'll reap. For instance, you want to play a sfz - you can hit it exactly as you want with the bc and then swell perfectly to the amount of loudness you want. So much simpler than trying to draw it in later. 

https://www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-midi-breath-controller 

I'm not which Audio Modeling instruments you don't like. I think the AM saxes are most superb as well as the woodwinds. I've used the AM clarinets on jazz solos in recordings by fairly major artists who loved them.


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 28, 2022)

I have just started to experiment with my EWI and Infinite Brass. So far I have been working on the Trumpet the most. Alot of Jazz potential. Made a quick recording of me playing on the jazz standard "Lady BIrd" with my EWI (electronic Wind instrment) and Infinite brass Trumpet 1! I think it really works for jazz stuff! Would be great in Noir setting aswell! Let me know what you think of this! it is a all one take performance and no editing on the midi afterwards

View attachment Lady bird IB Trumpet and EWI.mp3


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## Markrs (Jun 28, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> I have just started to experiment with my EWI and Infinite Brass. So far I have been working on the Trumpet the most. Alot of Jazz potential. Made a quick recording of me playing on the jazz standard "Lady BIrd" with my EWI (electronic Wind instrment) and Infinite brass Trumpet 1! I think it really works for jazz stuff! Would be great in Noir setting aswell! Let me know what you think of this! it is a all one take performance and no editing on the midi afterwards
> 
> View attachment Lady bird IB Trumpet and EWI.mp3


This is fantastic, got me really interested in Infinite Brass and woodwinds again. 

To be honest from what I can hear Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling Brass, and Infinite Series can all do Jazz and big band pretty well. Sadly buying all of them is too expensive so I so just have to pick one to go with.


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 28, 2022)

Markrs said:


> This is fantastic, got me really interested in Infinite Brass and woodwinds again.
> 
> To be honest from what I can hear Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling Brass, and Infinite Series can all do Jazz and big band pretty well. Sadly buying all of them is too expensive so I so just have to pick one to go with.


 

If you have played some wind instrument the EWI is a great way to bring more human/life into the infinite series! I only have brass that I got during the sale, now I crave the woodwinds . But yes they are abit pricey, but very good!


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## Markrs (Jun 28, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> If you have played some wind instrument the EWI is a great way to bring more human/life into the infinite series! I only have brass that I got during the sale, now I crave the woodwinds . But yes they are abit pricey, but very good!


 Not ever played wind instruments before though I do have a Tec breath controller which I use. I might have to bite the bullet and but a modelled brass and wind library.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 28, 2022)

Markrs said:


> This is fantastic, got me really interested in Infinite Brass and woodwinds again.
> 
> To be honest from what I can hear Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling Brass, and Infinite Series can all do Jazz and big band pretty well. Sadly buying all of them is too expensive so I so just have to pick one to go with.


Well, pick just one as the first one... The second and third can come later.


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## AceAudioHQ (Jun 28, 2022)

I like the sound of fablesounds broadway big band better than the rest for big band/jazz (works for pop also) stuff, the ui is pretty ancient though, for pop I use mostly session horns pro and for solo trumpet samplemodeling the trumpet 3


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 28, 2022)

Here is another one where I am experimenting with the Trombone from Infinite Brass. Playing over a jazz standard. The Trombone is harder to play with the EWI, it feels like it has a bit more delay before the Infinte engine "kicks in". A bit "heavier" to play than the trumpet or horn. Not my best improvisation but it is very fun trying it out and sharing my progress with the EWI and IB! Got more feeling the longer I played into the song 

View attachment Trombone Stella IB n EWI-001.mp3


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## Markrs (Jun 28, 2022)

AceAudioHQ said:


> fablesounds broadway big band


A shame the price is a measley *$2295 😱😂*



AceAudioHQ said:


> session horns pro


I have this along with EastWest Pop Brass, both of which I need to play with and see how well I can make then work


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## daychase (Jun 28, 2022)

Markrs said:


> A shame the price is a measley *$2295 😱😂*


I'm patiently waiting for the next time I see Broadway Lites go for 78% off like last August!

For those with Logic Pro, has anyone tried the Studio Horns included in 10.4 and above? Here's a transcription of a sax quartet arrangement of Blue Bossa I did with it today.
Considering this is almost _exclusively_ on default articulations except for staccatos, with no CC control for expression (set to 48 throughout), I think it sounds good enough for me - with a tiny bit of added compression and reverb - until Broadway Lites eventually goes on sale again.
It does lack a soprano sax, so I'm using a second alto with the Extended Keyrange option checked, but for what it is, I think it's usable. I'll do more with it soon and post my results!

(though given I also like less realistic libraries like Roland Sound Canvas VA and SampleTank, my opinion might not be entirely reliable for people who need cutting-edge realism?)


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 28, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Here is another one where I am experimenting with the Trombone from Infinite Brass. Playing over a jazz standard. The Trombone is harder to play with the EWI, it feels like it has a bit more delay before the Infinte engine "kicks in". A bit "heavier" to play than the trumpet or horn. Not my best improvisation but it is very fun trying it out and sharing my progress with the EWI and IB! Got more feeling the longer I played into the song
> 
> View attachment Trombone Stella IB n EWI-001.mp3


It still sounds very nuanced. Can you shift the midi in the timeline to compensate for the lagggy response after tracking?


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 28, 2022)

AceAudioHQ said:


> I like the sound of fablesounds broadway big band better than the rest for big band/jazz (works for pop also) stuff, the ui is pretty ancient though, for pop I use mostly session horns pro and for solo trumpet samplemodeling the trumpet 3


I have Broadway Lites. I'm constantly wondering on how much I'm missing out on! But also, even Lites is very good. I'm not surprised you turn to Session Horns Pro for pop. It has more punch, I think; if less character.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 28, 2022)

daychase said:


> I'm patiently waiting for the next time I see Broadway Lites go for 78% off like last August!
> 
> For those with Logic Pro, has anyone tried the Studio Horns included in 10.4 and above? Here's a transcription of a sax quartet arrangement of Blue Bossa I did with it today.
> Considering this is almost _exclusively_ on default articulations except for staccatos, with no CC control for expression (set to 48 throughout), I think it sounds good enough for me - with a tiny bit of added compression and reverb - until Broadway Lites eventually goes on sale again.
> ...


Ooh! Nice and smooth. Really nice, especially given the constraints that you mention.

I was lucky enough in that VST Buzz sale to actually get the money together before the deal ended. Broadway Lites is indeed very fine. But there are a lot of very fine brass/woods/horns libraries out there and I still always end up thinking that the ones that I don't have are the ones I really need!

Probably, in truth, I need a breath controller and a lot of practice.


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 28, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> It still sounds very nuanced. Can you shift the midi in the timeline to compensate for the lagggy response after tracking?


Yes I could put it more "in the pocket". But I think it being "heavy" in the time is also a nice feeling of the trombone, gives it a more relaxed feeling than if it would be exactly on the beat or ahead of the beat


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## Wally Garten (Jun 28, 2022)

LHall said:


> Thank you for your kind words!
> 
> Yes, they can stand very well as solo instruments provided one takes the time to learn them well. I especially like the trombones for soloing.
> 
> ...


I second the recommendation to consider a breath controller, assuming you can afford it and don’t have, say, a disability that would prevent you from using one. I’m not even good at it, but it’s a very fun and intuitive way to play that gives you a lot of little nuances in expression.


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 28, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> It still sounds very nuanced. Can you shift the midi in the timeline to compensate for the lagggy response after tracking?


I will make a funk trumpet example from IB tomorrow


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 28, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> I will make a funk trumpet example from IB tomorrow


That would be very kind!


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## Marsen (Jun 29, 2022)

LHall said:


> I humbly but strongly suggest you rethink the breath controller, though. I have the simple one that just does expression.


I wasn’t aware of a cheaper version of this bc, thanks so much, pointing me to this.


LHall said:


> I've used the AM clarinets on jazz solos in recordings by fairly major artists who loved them.


Seems, I was wrong with my first assessment. I definitely will have a closer look on them now.

This is really helpful, thank you.


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 29, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That would be very kind!


Here is a smooth funky jam with the EWI and Infinite Brass trumpet 
View attachment smooth funk trumpet IB n EWI.mp3


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 29, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Here is a smooth funky jam with the EWI and Infinite Brass trumpet
> View attachment smooth funk trumpet IB n EWI.mp3


Your music has me thoroughly under a spell.

I must kill you and steal your talent.

I never wrote that.


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 29, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Your music has me thoroughly under a spell.
> 
> I must kill you and steal your talent.
> 
> I never wrote that.



Noo! Don’t kill and steal! Get inspired and practice instead .

I could improve the trumpet in the mix a lot more. Didn’t do much except change to Berza hall. I could try to make it dryer to fit the backing track better. Now I have started to eye infinite woodwinds as well! But I am not through all the brass yet! Need to work more on the trombones and then try to make the ensemble work with thr Ewi.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 29, 2022)

Looking for inspiration and practice. Two things that keep us from making music.

(Just joking! A bit. Thoughtful, targeted practice is vital.)


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## Mikro93 (Jun 29, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Here is a smooth funky jam with the EWI and Infinite Brass trumpet
> View attachment smooth funk trumpet IB n EWI.mp3


Could you render this one with the Studio IR, and maybe a shorter reverb overall? I'd love to have a listen  I seem to remember you using Seventh Heaven, correct?


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 29, 2022)

Mikro93 said:


> Could you render this one with the Studio IR, and maybe a shorter reverb overall? I'd love to have a listen  I seem to remember you using Seventh Heaven, correct?


Yes I can render it dryer


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 29, 2022)

@Mikro93 @Bee_Abney Here is the Studio room from Infinite Brass. I used Seventh heaven on both the backingtrack and the infinite trumpet; sventh heaven Studio E (also a very short). Also some EQ to make the trumpet abit warmer, a little boost around 400hz and a drop around 2-3k area.
Small compression aswell on the trumpet to glue it in the mix and then a master compressor on the masterbus (I use Limiter 6 GE when I master)


Also: Almost only the spotmic were used in the Infinite brass, just a pinch of Main mic but no Ambient Mic

@Saxer @doctoremmet Here is my EWi performance on the Infinite trumpet using the "Studio" IR! Smooth Funk! 

View attachment smooth funk trumpet IB n EWI mixed studio mic.mp3


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## NYC Composer (Jun 29, 2022)

daychase said:


> I'm patiently waiting for the next time I see Broadway Lites go for 78% off like last August!
> 
> For those with Logic Pro, has anyone tried the Studio Horns included in 10.4 and above? Here's a transcription of a sax quartet arrangement of Blue Bossa I did with it today.
> Considering this is almost _exclusively_ on default articulations except for staccatos, with no CC control for expression (set to 48 throughout), I think it sounds good enough for me - with a tiny bit of added compression and reverb - until Broadway Lites eventually goes on sale again.
> ...


Don’t do it. Broadway Lites isn’t BBB. I think it sounds dreadful and I erased it from my drive.


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## daychase (Jun 29, 2022)

That's interesting! May I ask you two to go a bit more in depth about your experiences with Broadway Lites so I can see how they contrast? @Bee_Abney @NYC Composer 

That does mean I'm not sure what I'll want to move onto after Studio Horns, though. I'm not impressed by most of the libraries out there except for Broadway Big Band, Aarom Ventures' sax bundle and maybe Mojo 2, and two of those are money I don't really feel like spending and potentially regretting. I suppose that means I'll be sticking with Studio Horns that much longer?


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## Zanshin (Jun 29, 2022)

+1 for SM, Infinite, VHorns, and Straight Ahead.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the VSL VI Brass and Saxes yet - they have great character. Most are available a la carte.

I need to check out the Chris Hein stuff too.


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## daychase (Jun 29, 2022)

Huh! It's a character I didn't really associate with VSL before. I wonder if the offerings in Special Edition Vol. 2 and Plus are any good!



This is only confirming to me that the only thing stopping me from falling deeper and deeper into the VSL rabbit hole is my budget 😢


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 29, 2022)

daychase said:


> That's interesting! May I ask you two to go a bit more in depth about your experiences with Broadway Lites so I can see how they contrast? @Bee_Abney @NYC Composer
> 
> That does mean I'm not sure what I'll want to move onto after Studio Horns, though. I'm not impressed by most of the libraries out there except for Broadway Big Band, Aarom Ventures' sax bundle and maybe Mojo 2, and two of those are money I don't really feel like spending and potentially regretting. I suppose that means I'll be sticking with Studio Horns that much longer?


This is hastily done. But I don't think Broadway Lites sounds that bad. Anyway, this is basic and unpolished, but should give you some idea of the sound.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 29, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> This is hastily done. But I don't think Broadway Lites sounds that bad. Anyway, this is basic and unpolished, but should give you some idea of the sound.


Oops, I appeared not to have noticed that I knocked the panning out of whack before exporting. There's too much on the left.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 29, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> @Mikro93 @Bee_Abney Here is the Studio room from Infinite Brass. I used Seventh heaven on both the backingtrack and the infinite trumpet; sventh heaven Studio E (also a very short). Also some EQ to make the trumpet abit warmer, a little boost around 400hz and a drop around 2-3k area.
> Small compression aswell on the trumpet to glue it in the mix and then a master compressor on the masterbus (I use Limiter 6 GE when I master)
> 
> 
> ...


That's pretty darn great, actually!


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## NYC Composer (Jun 29, 2022)

daychase said:


> That's interesting! May I ask you two to go a bit more in depth about your experiences with Broadway Lites so I can see how they contrast? @Bee_Abney @NYC Composer
> 
> That does mean I'm not sure what I'll want to move onto after Studio Horns, though. I'm not impressed by most of the libraries out there except for Broadway Big Band, Aarom Ventures' sax bundle and maybe Mojo 2, and two of those are money I don't really feel like spending and potentially regretting. I suppose that means I'll be sticking with Studio Horns that much longer?


When BBB first came out, an utterly fantastic demo was done with it by (Amit Poznansky? Might not have the name quite right.) I was very interested. Then I found out the price, which was insane. No way.

Years later, I bought BL, sight unseen, very decent price . Bad loops, flat sound,only a few instruments really unusable for me except for one clarinet articulation. I deleted it. 

Btw, early adopters of BBB apparently went through the tortures of the damned to get it working on Halion Player. That’s apparently been fixed, so you can still buy it-for $2295.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 29, 2022)

NYC Composer said:


> When BBB first came out, an utterly fantastic demo was done with it by (Amit Poznansky? Might not have the name quite right.) I was very interested. Then I found out the price, which was insane. No way.
> 
> Years later, I bought BL, sight unseen, very decent price . Bad loops, flat sound,only a few instruments really unusable for me except for one clarinet articulation. I deleted it.
> 
> Btw, early adopters of BBB apparently went through the tortures of the damned to get it working on Halion Player. That’s apparently been fixed, so you can still buy it-for $2295.


Was their problem getting Halion set up? Because these libraries are in Kontakt now. Though I think Halion is worth the effort.

There aren't a huge number of instruments in Lites. I like the sound better than you, but I get where you are coming from. Lites could use more dynamic layers. The looping of sustains? Yes, it would be better to have no loops. Though you can easily stop the note in time.

I have a use for them, but there certainly do seem to be better options now. At a higher cost than Lites on a good sale, of course.

I don't know. There is something about the sound that just seems less synth-like to me than so many other brass samples. Thin, perhaps, but textured.

But I certainly respect your view.

The pricing of the full Broadway Big Band today is astonishing, though! Maybe it come with a free alpaca!


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## EanS (Jun 29, 2022)

After debating on the upcoming Atomic library and its cost, I made a "mature" (mature lol) decision to go for OPUS since I already have Pop Brass. My real interest on the Atomic one is indeed that I have had Pop Brass for a while and in part due to inexperience I tend to leave it alone and think it's not workable. 

So I didn't go for the new fad yet and made a more wholesome acquisition which was more affordable too. Now I have committed myself to make it work by mixing OPUS Brass and HW Pop Brass. The Trombone for instance has a list of "jazz articulations", weird no other instrument has these, but there are shakes, rips, flutters. Sax in pop Brass is deactivated in what I'm working on, so I'd like to propose: 

How about everyone here try to do Austin Power's theme with your Brass libs and see what you come with? Even you @Markrs that have Pop Brass too. 

Attached is the midi. Id' like to call @doctoremmet too and well, anyone interested to see what can you get with your brass using this tune.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 29, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Was their problem getting Halion set up? Because these libraries are in Kontakt now. Though I think Halion is worth the effort.
> 
> There aren't a huge number of instruments in Lites. I like the sound better than you, but I get where you are coming from. Lites could use more dynamic layers. The looping of sustains? Yes, it would be better to have no loops. Though you can easily stop the note in time.
> 
> ...


I like the free alpaca idea! I’d settle for a llama even. 😉


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## EanS (Jun 29, 2022)

Here's a snippet, I've just added a convo reverb and bus comp to even things out. Things you find, HW Pop Brass FX articulations some (or most) don't have velocity, fader riding is needed there. This is the bridge part before ending.


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## eph221 (Jun 29, 2022)

Here's vintage horns by big fish:

Me, myself and It


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## Mikro93 (Jun 29, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> @Mikro93 @Bee_Abney Here is the Studio room from Infinite Brass. I used Seventh heaven on both the backingtrack and the infinite trumpet; sventh heaven Studio E (also a very short). Also some EQ to make the trumpet abit warmer, a little boost around 400hz and a drop around 2-3k area.
> Small compression aswell on the trumpet to glue it in the mix and then a master compressor on the masterbus (I use Limiter 6 GE when I master)
> 
> 
> ...


I think the mix is very good like this, and you can probably fool many ears with this. I'm impressed! Thanks for doing that, I'll play with IB later on 

I remembered that Bible of Salsa vol. 3 has a very interesting brass section, with a trumpet, trombone and tenor sax. I was part of the demo team, so I got it for free, but I really like it for way more than salsa. Food for thoughts


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## Saxer (Jun 30, 2022)

Marsen said:


> Can they stand out as Solo Instruments too in your opinion?




Here's a bit of Samplemodeling Trumpet Solo (with harmon mute)


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 30, 2022)

Does anyone have any experience with Producers Vault trumpets and trombones? I've read that they are based in Brazil and they appear to have been around quite a while. (There are separate versions for Windows and Mac, I've just posted links to the Windows versions.)









Trompeta Latina VSTi Plugin for Windows PC


Latin Trumpet VST plugin fro WIndows PC for Salsa, Cumbia, Mariachi Trumpet, Merengue Trumpet Latin Jazz



www.producersvault.com













Trombon Latino VSTi Plugin for Windows PC


Latin Trombone VST plugin for WIndows PC for Salsa, Cumbia, Mariachi Trumpet, Merengue Trombon Trombone Latin Jazz



www.producersvault.com


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 30, 2022)

Saxer said:


> Here's a bit of Samplemodeling Trumpet Solo (with harmon mute)



Damn that sounds smooth! Is this you performed with an EWI or similar or is it keybaord /programmed?


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 30, 2022)

The same Broadway Lite's sketch, but this time with a bit of mixing and percussion. I still don't quite have it right; but it gives a better sense of what the library can do in context.


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## Ricgus3 (Jun 30, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> The same Broadway Lite's sketch, but this time with a bit of mixing and percussion. I still don't quite have it right; but it gives a better sense of what the library can do in context.


I would try to massage the CC alittle bit so all the attacks are not instand maxed out. Rather have a steep CC curve as each note note begins. Also try to use only 80% of the dynamic and save the 20 last % for crescendos . Don't reallknow Broadway lite but this is some general tips for improving the "Humaness"


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 30, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> I would try to massage the CC alittle bit so all the attacks are not instand maxed out. Rather have a steep CC curve as each note note begins. Also try to use only 80% of the dynamic and save the 20 last % for crescendos . Don't reallknow Broadway lite but this is some general tips for improving the "Humaness"


Yes, all great suggestions; it's really good to receive them. I didn't revisit velocity or anything else from when I played it in last night. Those are things that the mix couldn't fix!


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 30, 2022)

EanS said:


> After debating on the upcoming Atomic library and its cost, I made a "mature" (mature lol) decision to go for OPUS since I already have Pop Brass. My real interest on the Atomic one is indeed that I have had Pop Brass for a while and in part due to inexperience I tend to leave it alone and think it's not workable.
> 
> So I didn't go for the new fad yet and made a more wholesome acquisition which was more affordable too. Now I have committed myself to make it work by mixing OPUS Brass and HW Pop Brass. The Trombone for instance has a list of "jazz articulations", weird no other instrument has these, but there are shakes, rips, flutters. Sax in pop Brass is deactivated in what I'm working on, so I'd like to propose:
> 
> ...


I've applied your Austin Powers midi to Insanity Samples New Orleans Brass. I've used reverb and panning/volume just to put do a bit of work on putting it in a room; but I haven't adjusted the velocity or adjusted any articulations. I don't know if that makes it a less helpful or more helpful test! But it would take quite a bit of thought to start making more musical adjustments like that. Here is a list of the instruments and what I put in for them.

Flute 1: Native Instruments' Symphony Series Woodwind Solo Flute
Flute 2: Native Instruments' Symphony Series Woodwind Solo Flute (transposition trick)
Trumpet 1: Insanity Samples' New Orleans Brass Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2: Insanity Samples' New Orleans Brass Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3: Insanity Samples' Cool Jazz Trumpet
Trombone 1: Insanity Samples' New Orleans Brass Trombone 1
Trombone 2: Insanity Samples' New Orleans Brass Trombone 2
Bass Trombone: Insanity Samples' New Orleans Brass Sousaphone
Piano: Native Instruments; Una Corda Pure
Bass: Strezov Sampling's Diamond Jazz Trio Freebie Double Bass
Drums: Native Instruments' Abbey Road 50's Drummer Spring Kit - Full


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## Saxer (Jun 30, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Damn that sounds smooth! Is this you performed with an EWI or similar or is it keybaord /programmed?


It's windcontroller... not the EWI but the old Yamaha WX7.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 30, 2022)

EanS said:


> After debating on the upcoming Atomic library and its cost, I made a "mature" (mature lol) decision to go for OPUS since I already have Pop Brass. My real interest on the Atomic one is indeed that I have had Pop Brass for a while and in part due to inexperience I tend to leave it alone and think it's not workable.
> 
> So I didn't go for the new fad yet and made a more wholesome acquisition which was more affordable too. Now I have committed myself to make it work by mixing OPUS Brass and HW Pop Brass. The Trombone for instance has a list of "jazz articulations", weird no other instrument has these, but there are shakes, rips, flutters. Sax in pop Brass is deactivated in what I'm working on, so I'd like to propose:
> 
> ...


Same as before, now with different instruments.

Flute 1: Strezov Sampling's Jade Ethnic Orchestra Bawu
Flute 2: Strezov Sampling's Jade Ethnic Orchestra Dizi Alto
Trumpet 1: Fable Sounds' Broadway Lites Trumpet
Trumpet 2: Fable Sounds' Broadway Lites Trumpet (Transposition Trick down)
Trumpet 3: Fable Sounds' Broadway Lites Trumpet (Transposition Trick up)
Trombone 1: Fable Sounds' Broadway Lites Trombone (Transposition Trick up)
Trombone 2: Fable Sounds' Broadway Lites Trombone (Transposition Trick)
Bass Trombone: Native Instruments' Symphony Series Brass Solo Tuba
Piano: Native Instruments' The Gentleman
Bass: Native Instruments' Cuba Bass
Drums: Native Instruments' Abbey Road Vintage Drummer Ivory Kit - Full


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 30, 2022)

EanS said:


> After debating on the upcoming Atomic library and its cost, I made a "mature" (mature lol) decision to go for OPUS since I already have Pop Brass. My real interest on the Atomic one is indeed that I have had Pop Brass for a while and in part due to inexperience I tend to leave it alone and think it's not workable.
> 
> So I didn't go for the new fad yet and made a more wholesome acquisition which was more affordable too. Now I have committed myself to make it work by mixing OPUS Brass and HW Pop Brass. The Trombone for instance has a list of "jazz articulations", weird no other instrument has these, but there are shakes, rips, flutters. Sax in pop Brass is deactivated in what I'm working on, so I'd like to propose:
> 
> ...


And now with Session Horns Pro

Flute 1: Sampletekk Rennaissance Flutes Soprano Recorder
Flute 2: Sampletekk Rennaissance Flutes Soprano Recorder (Transposition Trick)
Trumpet 1: Session Horns Pro Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2: Session Horns Pro Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3: Session Horns Pro Flugelhorn
Trombone 1: Session Horns Pro Tenor Trombone
Trombone 2: Session Horns Pro Barritone Sax
Bass Trombone: Session Horns Bass Trombone
Piano: Native Instruments' The Giant
Bass: Insanity Samples' Cool Jazz Upright Bass
Drums: Native Instruments' Abbey Road Vintage Drummer Ebony Kit - Full


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## EanS (Jun 30, 2022)

Good examples there ❤️, which one is your fave yet?

Ah, try bpm >146 indeed is like 154 but too much.

I find fun doing these exercises to see how libraries will react and how can you mf of it.

I liked more the Insanity Samples New Orlans ones. Intro is like that , two trombones talking but here seems is the soussaphone and trombone (original asks for bass trombone)

Yeah,.midi changing will add all the spice, for such short notes I think higher velicity and stacatissimo/ stacatto shorts are better. This is mostly a shorts library song.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 30, 2022)

EanS said:


> Good examples there ❤️, which one is your fave yet?
> 
> Ah, try bpm >146 indeed is like 154 but too much.
> 
> ...


I prefer New Orleans Brass in this case. But I think that Broadway Lites has the nicest top end (it has no low end at all, including the other instruments I didn't use).

It's simply too big a job for me right now to properly program each of these performances. But this does give at least a little taste of what these libraries have.


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## EanS (Jun 30, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I prefer New Orleans Brass in this case. But I think that Broadway Lites has the nicest top end (it has no low end at all, including the other instruments I didn't use).
> 
> It's simply too big a job for me right now to properly program each of these performances. But this does give at least a little taste of what these libraries have.


Yeah it's the whole cornerstone of all, i feel you. The midi programming time spending/wasting is really a task that clogs the whole playing/creating process, kudos on AVenture type libraries too, hope future is nearer. 

New Orleans sounded quite great, being trumpets my least fave in that combo they have a nice touch from it, Browadway lites has a less shrill trumpet high end indeed.


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## DSmolken (Jul 1, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Does anyone have any experience with Producers Vault trumpets and trombones? I've read that they are based in Brazil and they appear to have been around quite a while. (There are separate versions for Windows and Mac, I've just posted links to the Windows versions.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mexico, probably, as they've got a Duranguense plugin. I remember taking a quick look some time ago, when they also had a banda VSTi - very small diskspace requirements, synthy sound in walkthroughs, so not very deep-sampled or flexible, but kinda like the Blue Street Brass, the patches do sound like they belong in the style.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 1, 2022)

DSmolken said:


> Mexico, probably, as they've got a Duranguense plugin. I remember taking a quick look some time ago, when they also had a banda VSTi - very small diskspace requirements, synthy sound in walkthroughs, so not very deep-sampled or flexible, but kinda like the Blue Street Brass, the patches do sound like they belong in the style.


Thanks. I had a feeling that might be the case. Possibly something I'll come back to for flavour; but for now I'll focus on saving towards something with fuller features.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 1, 2022)

Here’s an example of my SampleModeling/Chris Hein horns 2 template. 
View attachment You-Knock-Me-Out.mp3


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 1, 2022)

NYC Composer said:


> Here’s an example of my SampleModeling/Chris Hein horns 2 template.
> View attachment You-Knock-Me-Out.mp3


I mean, that's alright... If you like music or something.

That's amazing!


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 1, 2022)

It's a little different, but Westwood just released Solo Brass Untamed, which has an introductory offer of £105 (£175 full price):









Brass sample library for Kontakt - SOLO BRASS UNTAMED


Solo Brass sample library for Kontakt. Hundreds of unique improvisations to breathe life, emotion and a little bit of chaos into your music.




www.westwoodinstruments.com





Simeon is taking a look at it live at the moment, which should be available later too:



This could have some uses in some folkier jazz, such as New Orleans style; both as playable instruments and for some textural evolutions.


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## Markrs (Jul 1, 2022)

NYC Composer said:


> Here’s an example of my SampleModeling/Chris Hein horns 2 template.
> View attachment You-Knock-Me-Out.mp3


Wow, that sounds amazing!


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## S-B-L (Jul 2, 2022)

Here is my try for the Austin Powers Main Theme.

Flute 1: EW Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds Flute 1 (doubled with ProjectSAM Clarinet)
Flute 2: EW Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds Flute 2 (doubled with ProjectSAM Clarinet)
Trumpet 1/2/3: ProjectSAM SwingMore Trumpet
Trombone 1/2: ProjectSAM SwingMore Trombone
Bass Trombone: ProjectSAM SwingMore Bass Trombone
Piano: Native Instruments' Maverick
Bass: Native Intruments' Spotlight Collection Cuba Bass
Drums: Addictive Drums 2 - Modern Jazz Brushes No Room with Comp

Added Some Reverb and a little bit of compression / limiting

I think you could do even better with these libraries if you spend more time.
This is my first quick shot for that


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## Jrides (Jul 2, 2022)

S-B-L said:


> Here is my try for the Austin Powers Main Theme.
> 
> Flute 1: EW Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds Flute 1 (doubled with ProjectSAM Clarinet)
> Flute 2: EW Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds Flute 2 (doubled with ProjectSAM Clarinet)
> ...


Did you massage the Midi cc on these?


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## S-B-L (Jul 2, 2022)

No CC1 or CC11 in it. Just Keyswitches to different articulations


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jul 2, 2022)

So


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## Rob (Jul 2, 2022)

NYC Composer said:


> Here’s an example of my SampleModeling/Chris Hein horns 2 template.
> View attachment You-Knock-Me-Out.mp3


Phenomenal voice Larry... and a winner piece


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 2, 2022)

S-B-L said:


> Here is my try for the Austin Powers Main Theme.
> 
> Flute 1: EW Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds Flute 1 (doubled with ProjectSAM Clarinet)
> Flute 2: EW Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds Flute 2 (doubled with ProjectSAM Clarinet)
> ...


That's a nice, bright, round sound there.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 2, 2022)

Rob said:


> Phenomenal voice Larry... and a winner piece


Thanks Rob! I love his voice-that’s the fabulous Tony B from Staten Island, NY. Mister Authenticity in my opinion.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 7, 2022)

For those who might be interested in it, Broadway Lites is currently available for $119.99 at Audio Plugin Deals:









Broadway Lites by Fable Sounds - Audio Plugin Deals


Powered by the free Kontakt 6 player *(also compatible with the latest version of Kontakt 5), it features 15GB of multi-sample content, with over 20,000 unique samples of saxophones, trumpets, trombone and clarinet.




audioplugin.deals





I think it is worth this price but that the full price of $499.99 could be better spent elsewhere.


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## daychase (Jul 7, 2022)

I was thinking about posting about it too! Time to spend the next two weeks mulling over whether I should get it now or not 😣


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 7, 2022)

daychase said:


> I was thinking about posting about it too! Time to spend the next two weeks mulling over whether I should get it now or not 😣


I did the exact same thing before I bought it from Audio Plugin Deals last year. Good luck with the deliberations! Let me know if I can share any demos with you that might help with your mulling.


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## Marsen (Jul 7, 2022)

Seems, like they have an additional 20% off on all purchases with code JULY4 .
Thanks, to bringing this to our attention Bee .


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 7, 2022)

Marsen said:


> Seems, like they have an additional 20% off on all purchases with code JULY4 .
> Thanks, to bringing this to our attention Bee .


I didn't realise that that code applied to the current offers as well. I just checked, and it does. That's fantastic. With that, this makes this slightly cheaper than last year.


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## Rob (Jul 7, 2022)

Marsen said:


> Seems, like they have an additional 20% off on all purchases with code JULY4 .
> Thanks, to bringing this to our attention Bee .


I should've checked VIC before purchasing, woud have saved me 25 euros... nevermind, I'm happy of the library. Though it's really an appetizer for the full version


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## jesussaddle (Jul 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I did the exact same thing before I bought it from Audio Plugin Deals last year. Good luck with the deliberations! Let me know if I can share any demos with you that might help with your mulling.


I was deliberating on that. I have Aaron Venture infinite Brass and Infinite Woodwinds, and I was also thinking of getting Broadway Lite along with Impact Soundworks Ventus Ethnic Winds. At this point, while I was adding Ventus to the cart, they offered me a freebie called Sordina (just a horn mute vst effect basically). I didn't see anything about it costing me rewards points but it seemed to be offering that same price, of $14.

But someone on their walkthrough video said Broadway Lite isn't worth it. I decided for the time being I wanted to back out of Broadway Lite 2.0. So I removed it from the cart, & then I guess their system got confused and just froze (I notice it does that sometimes, the shopping cart doesn't refresh for many minutes, so I give up and I reload the page). When I reloaded the web page Sordina was cleared out from my shopping cart at the $14 price (their list price on his site is $89 and that's too much for an experimental effect that I haven't demo'd and that may or may not deliver).

What makes this strange is that after reading the positive comments regarding Broadway Lite here I have tried to reproduce this chain of events and I can't. Sordina isn't offered to me. Golly willickers I feel so fickle.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 7, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> I was deliberating on that. I have Aaron Venture infinite Brass and Infinite Woodwinds, and I was also thinking of getting Broadway Lite along with Impact Soundworks Ventus Ethnic Winds. At this point, while I was adding Ventus to the cart, they offered me a freebie called Sordina (just a horn mute vst effect basically). I didn't see anything about it costing me rewards points but it seemed to be offering that same price, of $14.
> 
> But someone on their walkthrough video said Broadway Lite isn't worth it. I decided for the time being I wanted to back out of Broadway Lite 2.0. So I removed it from the cart, & then I guess their system got confused and just froze (I notice it does that sometimes, the shopping cart doesn't refresh for many minutes, so I give up and I reload the page). When I reloaded the web page Sordina was cleared out from my shopping cart at the $14 price (their list price on his site is $89 and that's too much for an experimental effect that I haven't demo'd and that may or may not deliver).
> 
> What makes this strange is that after reading the positive comments regarding Broadway Lite here I have tried to reproduce this chain of events and I can't. Sordina isn't offered to me. Golly willickers I feel so fickle.


Sadly, that is the way with Audio Plugi Deals. I have no idea quite how it works, but those extra offers before you purchase something do seem to be 'one time' chances.

Sordina is pretty good. I use it quite a lot and like the sound. It may not be as good as real recordings of mutes, but the range of choices of different mutes, and the fact that you can put it on anything, makes it a useful plugin to have.

Broadyway Lites is a tricky choice. Some people with a good understanding of brass (better than mine) are really not happy with it. I think that there is something to it - in the higher registers especially - that really does sound better than a lot of other brass libraries out there. Something a little more organic and textured.

But Infinite Brass really is so wonderful, I don't think you'll be lacking for good brass sounds. Infinite Brass is on my medium-term want list. I don't quite have time to get to grips with it now; but I'm looking forward to a time when I can.


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## jesussaddle (Jul 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Sadly, that is the way with Audio Plugi Deals. I have no idea quite how it works, but those extra offers before you purchase something do seem to be 'one time' chances.
> 
> Sordina is pretty good. I use it quite a lot and like the sound. It may not be as good as real recordings of mutes, but the range of choices of different mutes, and the fact that you can put it on anything, makes it a useful plugin to have.
> 
> ...


Honestly it would actually be worth it to get Broadway Lite 2.0 to get those impulse responses to use in sound design - if I had extra money. What I hope is that if I buy Broadway Lite I can use some tools at my disposal to massage the sound to get that style of brass as if it were recorded in a more up-to-date detailed way. (I"m not sure but I think they recorded it in a space with damping, which is why my ear particularly doesn't find it wowing. But it could be useable...)

They (audio plugin deals) responded already (within an hour) and say that the Broadway Lites will automatically prompt that offer (if you drop it from your basket it gets taken out as well - fair.)


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## Saxer (Jul 8, 2022)

I made a playback of Soul Bossa Nova more than 15 years ago (2007 says the mp3 file but it might be older) with Samplemodeling and Wallanderinstruments. We played with a duo pno/sax on wedding parties at that time so the piano and flute parts are not included as this parts were performed live. Sorry for the evil mix... and I can't remember all the instruments I used. I think it was Samplemodeling Trumpets and everything else Wallanderinstruments.


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## muziksculp (Jul 8, 2022)

chopin4525 said:


> No saxes or clarinets though...


SWAM has you covered with Saxes, and Clarinets


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 8, 2022)

Saxer said:


> I made a playback of Soul Bossa Nova more than 15 years ago (2007 says the mp3 file but it might be older) with Samplemodeling and Wallanderinstruments. We played with a duo pno/sax on wedding parties at that time so the piano and flute parts are not included as this parts were performed live. Sorry for the evil mix... and I can't remember all the instruments I used. I think it was Samplemodeling Trumpets and everything else Wallanderinstruments.


Ooh, that brass is angry at someone! As if all the musicians had been through a bad breakup with the producer. Very nice!


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## Rob (Jul 8, 2022)

so, my first impressions with Broadway Lites:
-nice instrument timbre, good overall legato transitions
-hard to control dynamics (but I've had this for a few hours so could be user's fault)
-apparently no releases (could be an advantage)
-very few instruments (1 trumpet, 1 tbone, 1 alto, clarinet, tenor, bari) but
-sections built with the same instrument tend to work rather well, using the "section" trick in the UI
all in all, as @Bee_Abney said above, for the price a good investment, though eventually one will feel the need for the full BBB

a little Moonlight Serenade thing, to show the sections 1-2-3-4 trick

View attachment BL-.Moonlight.mp3


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 8, 2022)

Rob said:


> so, my first impressions with Broadway Lites:
> -nice instrument timbre, good overall legato transitions
> -hard to control dynamics (but I've had this for a few hours so could be user's fault)
> -apparently no releases (could be an advantage)
> ...


Yes, the sections are good. But also yes, the dynamics are hard to control. At least that can be adjusted after tracking.

Your demo sounded lovely!


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## Iskra (Jul 8, 2022)

In case someone is wondering about the BB lites, here's my (quick) tryout to Soul Bossa Nova, mostly with BB lites 
Actually I spent more time getting some similar voicings from the original than massaging the midi or mix... Anyway, a little example of BB lites (trumpets, trombones, clarinets & bari sax- first trumpet with a little help from SAS Birth of the trumpet way in the back), flutes are the free recently released mistral for Sine + piccolo from Spitfire audio studio woodwinds.
BB lites is good for this kind of accompaniment, for soloing or exposed passages SAS tenor colossus or birth of the trumpet are my go-to, hands down.


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## Marsen (Jul 8, 2022)

I got Broadway Lites today and made a small test with The Tenor Sax.
As others pointed out, it was a bit difficult to tame the dynamics.

Wonder, if vst´s like Tenor Collosus are faster to work with.

Tenor for Lead, Session Horn´s Pro for section.
View attachment Broadway Lites test.mp3


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## EanS (Jul 8, 2022)

here's after a bit of work.

Flute 1: Xsample's Alto Flute
Flute 2: Opus 2 Flutes
Trumpet 1: Opus 3 Trumpets
Trumpet 2: Hollywood Pop Brass (Sax Mic is Off)
Trumpet 3: Hollywood Pop Brass FX (layers)
Trombone 1: OPUS 2 Trombones
Bass Trombone: OPUS 2 Trombones + 1 Bass Trombone
Piano: Arturia Piano V3 (Jazz Upright)
Bass: Musicalsampling PLCK Upright Bass 1
Drums: BFD3 - Peter Erskine Kit

Only Brass Section's midi was massaged. And drums, you'll notice xD

OPUS Reverbs all deactivated. All tracks sent to a Bus, with a Bricasti M7 Quad Plate Reverb IR + SLL Bus Comp.

I still plan on finishing the other instruments, add a cuica, mix it and scream shagadellic babeee in the end, etc..


have a great weekend everyone 
View attachment Opus & Pop Brass Austin Powers.mp3


Also here's the same export without Reverb and SSL Bus Comp

View attachment OPUS No Verb & Comp.mp3


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## Ricgus3 (Jul 8, 2022)

I made a “jazzy jam” yesterday with infinite brass trumpet and the Ewi 



Also used:
Drums: free orange tree samples kit
Double bass: art vista 
Piano: art vista 

Put it up on soundcloud as I got happy with the end result of my jazzy jam


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## Rob (Jul 9, 2022)

it seems to me that the BL instruments have enough quality to stand as exposed solos in small ensembles. Here's a random Tpt/Ten/Tbone modern-ish jazz track. No articulations used, just the legatos:

View attachment BL-ModernJazz.mp3


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> it seems to me that the BL instruments have enough quality to stand as exposed solos in small ensembles. Here's a random Tpt/Ten/Tbone modern-ish jazz track. No articulations used, just the legatos:
> 
> View attachment BL-ModernJazz.mp3


I agree. I'm out of practice with the dynamics at the moment; but whatever their shortcomings, they do sound really good and natural.


----------



## Rob (Jul 9, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I agree. I'm out of practice with the dynamics at the moment; but whatever their shortcomings, they do sound really good and natural.


I'm practicing exactly that, dynamics, and find that (for my way of playing) a heavy compression brings out details in the p/pp layer that really help shaping phrases...


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> I'm practicing exactly that, dynamics, and find that (for my way of playing) a heavy compression brings out details in the p/pp layer that really help shaping phrases...


Very clever. Of course, the compression will reduce the jumps between dynamic layers, so that you can move from one to the other (and up and down in volume) without it being as pronounced. I haven't tried that deliberately with Broadway Lites; but now that you've mentioned it I remember finding them much more playable when I had some effects including compression on them whilst improvising.

I'll have to give it another go the next time I use them. I was actually working on a piece that included (transposition created) clarinet and baritone sax ensembles and should have tried it then. Unfortunately, I've ended up replacing them with strings as the piece started revealing itself.


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## Rob (Jul 9, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Very clever. Of course, the compression will reduce the jumps between dynamic layers, so that you can move from one to the other (and up and down in volume) without it being as pronounced. I haven't tried that deliberately with Broadway Lites; but now that you've mentioned it I remember finding them much more playable when I had some effects including compression on them whilst improvising.
> 
> I'll have to give it another go the next time I use them. I was actually working on a piece that included (transposition created) clarinet and baritone sax ensembles and should have tried it then. Unfortunately, I've ended up replacing them with strings as the piece started revealing itself.


wow that looks like a creative ensemble, clarinets and bari... should you try the compression trick, don't be shy to compress the hell out of the patch. I also noticed that release samples, which I thought weren't there at all, come out as a result of compression. Then maybe we could apply a cc to Kontakt's own volume slider to have some control on the general level of the instrument...


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## Jrides (Jul 9, 2022)

I am considering Broadway Lites. Can anyone provide examples of horn stabs in marcado and staccato? Mainly interested in how the trumpet sounds with these articulations? Trying to gauge how these with sound in a High energy funk context. James Brown and that sort of thing.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 9, 2022)

Jrides said:


> I am considering Broadway Lites. Can anyone provide examples of horn stabs in marcado and staccato? Mainly interested in how the trumpet sounds with these articulations? Trying to gauge how these with sound in a High energy funk context. James Brown and that sort of thing.


I can try at another time, maybe tomorrow. There is no marcato; but you can shape the sustain. The staccatisimo and staccato are good, I think.


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## Jrides (Jul 9, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I can try at another time, maybe tomorrow. There is no marcato; but you can shape the sustain. The staccatisimo and staccato are good, I think.


Interesting. I saw Marcato on the website articulation list for trumpet. from what I can tell in various demos the staccato seems nice but it’s a little shorter than the sound I’m looking for. Let me rephrase that… The staccato would probably be heavily used, however I would also want a short stab with a bit of a longer sustain.


anyway… Thanks so much for your generous offer. Any demos of what could be accomplished around short stabs would be greatly appreciate it. I look forward to hearing what you are eventually able to cook up…


on a different note… Does anyone know if the patches are locked for this library? I know some developers lock the Legado patches only. Curious how much potential there is to fix any issues with this one.


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## Ricgus3 (Jul 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> it seems to me that the BL instruments have enough quality to stand as exposed solos in small ensembles. Here's a random Tpt/Ten/Tbone modern-ish jazz track. No articulations used, just the legatos:
> 
> View attachment BL-ModernJazz.mp3


That sounds really great! Did you use a EWI or breath controller or just keyboard and CC massage?


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## Rob (Jul 9, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> That sounds really great! Did you use a EWI or breath controller or just keyboard and CC massage?


yes, EWI usb used as pure breath controller...


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## Ricgus3 (Jul 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> yes, EWI usb used as pure breath controller..


Nice! Is the BL patches EWI supported or did you tweak alot by yourself?


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## Rob (Jul 9, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Nice! Is the BL patches EWI supported or did you tweak alot by yourself?


patches are locked, so you have to adjust the provided parameters to suit your playing style... no way to open the wrench and work under the hood


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## Rob (Jul 9, 2022)

Jrides said:


> I am considering Broadway Lites. Can anyone provide examples of horn stabs in marcado and staccato? Mainly interested in how the trumpet sounds with these articulations? Trying to gauge how these with sound in a High energy funk context. James Brown and that sort of thing.


here's a quick example, very clean... trumpet and tpt harmon unison staccatissimo, ten sax bari sax and bone sforzando... just one of the many possible combi. Now I quit because I see I'm all over the place...

View attachment BL-JB.mp3


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## daychase (Jul 9, 2022)

These might be the best demo I've ever heard for Broadway Lites! If I end up buying it, you're at minimum partially the reason why 😮


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## Living Fossil (Jul 9, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I didn't realise that that code applied to the current offers as well. I just checked, and it does. That's fantastic. With that, this makes this slightly cheaper than last year.


Interesting, I just tried, but the button doesn't react.
The audioplugindeals site seems to be buggy.


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## Jrides (Jul 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> here's a quick example, very clean... trumpet and tpt harmon unison staccatissimo, ten sax bari sax and bone sforzando... just one of the many possible combi. Now I quit because I see I'm all over the place...
> 
> View attachment BL-JB.mp3



Well ummmm. RIP money. You and @Bee_Abney are totally to blame for my new enhanced state of poverty. After hearing your demo I was so blinded by desire to purchase this library, that I think I tried to shove my credit card directly into my computer monitor?


I mean…….um yeah.


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## EanS (Jul 9, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> Interesting, I just tried, but the button doesn't react.
> The audioplugindeals site seems to be buggy.


Via mobile it shows (I used Edge) on a desktop/laptop browser (Edge/Chrome) it doesn't show.


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## Living Fossil (Jul 9, 2022)

EanS said:


> Via mobile it shows (I used Edge) on a desktop/laptop browser (Edge/Chrome) it doesn't show.


It shows the button on both, laptop and smartphone, but it reacts on none...
Do you have edge on an iPhone?

Edit: just checked it in Edge on the iPhone.
Still doesn't work.


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## EanS (Jul 9, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> It shows the button on both, laptop and smartphone, but it reacts on none...
> Do you have edge on an iPhone?


Aha! Android.

Mine (Win/Edge) shows the text to click but no box to input code. It loads but then it disappears, I have disabled all adblockers and nada.






(after those last demos shown by @Rob - it really tickled my interest. Seems in the end it can suffer from the same as opus, needs more time and proper manual reading to understand and see if it works for you, libraries like Swing have the appeal of sounding right immediately, but put you in a box)

Here's a good article. Scroll down for the comparisons.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2020/6/2/how-to-choose-orchestral-sample-libraries-bing-band-and-jazz)


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## WarpIV (Jul 9, 2022)

I definitely don't advertise my libraries enough (just word of mouth)...

Here is a demo I wrote years ago using the Hollywood Studio Brass and Woodwind Collection (HSBWC). It consists of the Screaming Trumpet Pro library featuring Wayne Bergeron, Legendary Trombone library featuring Andy Martin, and WarpIV PRO Woodwinds library featuring Eric Marienthal. All of these guys are famous world-renowned jazz and studio musicians.

I'm only uploading the winds-only mix so you can hear the HSBWC instruments clearly. Sorry if there is a little too much reverb in the mix... The first half features the jazz flute. All of the flute runs you hear are true legato, not MIDI notes.

The Trumpet and trombone libraries are huge and include fully articulated instruments with a gazillion articulations. But, they use the older SIPS interface. The trumpet and trombone libraries feature identical articulations and key switches, which makes them easy to use together. There is a newer Screaming Trumpet library, but it is only trumpet (not mutes, etc.). Eventually, I will modernize the trumpets and trombones... The woodwind libraries are also huge with a gazillion articulations (including a ton of true legatos) and have a modern interface that is much easier to use.

Trumpets include: Tumpet, harmon mute, straight mute, cup mute, plunger mute, wa wa (harmon with stem), flugelhorn, and piccolo trumpet.

Trombone include: Trombone, Bass Trombone, straight mute, cup mute, plunger mute, and wa wa (harmon with stem).

Woodwinds include: Soprano sax, alto sax, tenor sax, baritone sax, jazz clarinet, jazz flute.


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## Living Fossil (Jul 9, 2022)

EanS said:


> Mine (Win/Edge) shows the text to click but no box to input code. It loads but then it disappears, I have disabled all adblockers and nada.


It's the same appearance here. But clicking on the red text doesn't do anything.
What do you mean by "and nada"?


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## EanS (Jul 9, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> It's the same appearance here. But clicking on the red text doesn't do anything.
> What do you mean by "and nada"?


It doesn't react, there's no script working, the box doesn't show. In Spanish nada = nothing, etc...


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## Living Fossil (Jul 9, 2022)

EanS said:


> It doesn't react, there's no script working, the box doesn't show. In Spanish nada = nothing, etc...


But above you wrote that it worked for you on Edge. Now you write it didn't work?
Or do you mean there was a box in Edge???
(I tried it on Edge on my iPhone, but it didn't work)


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## EanS (Jul 9, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> But above you wrote that it worked for you on Edge. Now you write it didn't work?
> Or do you mean there was a box in Edge???
> (I tried it on Edge on my iPhone, but it didn't work)


Edge works on Windows and Android. So let me rephrase it: 

Windows 10 with Edge and Chrome browsers: It does not show the box to add the code

Android Phone with Edge: It shows the damn box and processes everything proper. 

Did you try Safari? It seems it's some sort of adblock not letting it, but not from the browser.


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## Living Fossil (Jul 9, 2022)

EanS said:


> Did you try Safari? It seems it's some sort of adblock not letting it, but not from the browser.


ok, now i understand you 

I tried it with Safari, Chrome and Opera on my Mac (no adblockers).
And with Safari and Edge on my iPhone.
No success.


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## EanS (Jul 9, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> ok, now i understand you
> 
> I tried it with Safari, Chrome and Opera on my Mac (no adblockers).
> And with Safari and Edge on my iPhone.
> No success.


Dang, but it's not you alone and not a Mac/Apple exclusive issue. You can shoot them an email or wait a while (there's still 24 hours left) so they notice and fix it.


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## Living Fossil (Jul 9, 2022)

EanS said:


> Dang, but it's not you alone and not a Mac/Apple exclusive issue. You can shoot them an email or wait a while (there's still 24 hours left) so they notice and fix it.


I wrote them an email of course, which they will read on monday (according to the automatic answer).
No drama, just a waste of time...


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## Living Fossil (Jul 9, 2022)

Great news: I've just received a mail from audioplugindeals.
They have fixed the bug.
It works now, but it's necessary to clear the browser cache first.


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## Jrides (Jul 9, 2022)

Discount code… I Can confirm… It works.


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## Ricgus3 (Jul 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> here's a quick example, very clean... trumpet and tpt harmon unison staccatissimo, ten sax bari sax and bone sforzando... just one of the many possible combi. Now I quit because I see I'm all over the place...
> 
> View attachment BL-JB.mp3



Tower of power groove :D


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## jesussaddle (Jul 9, 2022)

WarpIV said:


> I definitely don't advertise my libraries enough (just word of mouth)...
> 
> Here is a demo I wrote years ago using the Hollywood Studio Brass and Woodwind Collection (HSBWC). It consists of the Screaming Trumpet Pro library featuring Wayne Bergeron, Legendary Trombone library featuring Andy Martin, and WarpIV PRO Woodwinds library featuring Eric Marienthal. All of these guys are famous world-renowned jazz and studio musicians.
> 
> ...


I checked the price because I was curious. $1300 It does sound pretty incredible. I watched that video on the channel. Maybe another time :D One thing I check on instruments in a "higher price range" is whether there is vibrato rate, as is the case with Aaron Venture and I think the Swam instruments. (The SWAM all in bundle is $1400 - I'm tempted partly because I am a fanatic for being able to control vibrato rate of all that.)


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## EanS (Jul 9, 2022)

If you're unable to see the RTO on Broadway LITEs






You'll have to access direct download at Continuata and download this file





Then you place that folder as specified in the quick guide.

For Kontakt 6: • Documents > Native Instruments > Kontakt > pictures (you might need to create the “pictures” folder if it’s not already there)

For Kontakt 5: • Documents > Native Instruments > Kontakt 5 > pictures
____________

I'm not quite comfortable with the Keyswitches Combos (having to press more than one KS and a
combination), I spent some time setting up Sound Variations (Studio One) for the Harmon Mute since it has less articulations based on the documents.

In this case I hit a wall because some combos (C#0 + F#0) clash with already assigned keys, I made it work until falls long and short, When adding Fall up Doit hell breaks lose. Then I read again and see that articulations had a Note F1 and E1 for Plunger and Stem off or on.

So went back and added F1 + E1 (Plunger and Stem off) "on" note + C1 (Legato Articulation) as on/off note and it works, then it went crazy again with all wha wha, and then I gave up, live another day.

_Besides this detail I'm checking out the RTO now (since now I can see the picture in the KSP) and these have Articulation Presets you can add, remove assign or learn. There's hope there._


They do need work and that manual needs to be read, think of Xsample's way of thinking which was a way to provide solutions in that time, which today it isn't necessary thanks to Expression Maps or Sound Variations.

I don't recommend it If you don't have time and patience (I don't have the patience, but I do it baked).

If you want the the sound, it's really there. It's been proven in this post.


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## WarpIV (Jul 9, 2022)

jesussaddle said:


> I checked the price because I was curious. $1300 It does sound pretty incredible. I watched that video on the channel. Maybe another time :D One thing I check on instruments in a "higher price range" is whether there is vibrato rate, as is the case with Aaron Venture and I think the Swam instruments. (The SWAM all in bundle is $1400 - I'm tempted partly because I am a fanatic for being able to control vibrato rate of all that.)


You can control the vibrato rates. It’s pretty elaborate in SIPS with the trumpet and trombones. To make things simple for the woodwinds, you can set the rate in various ways, but you can’t change it dynamically.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 9, 2022)

WarpIV said:


> I definitely don't advertise my libraries enough (just word of mouth)...
> 
> Here is a demo I wrote years ago using the Hollywood Studio Brass and Woodwind Collection (HSBWC). It consists of the Screaming Trumpet Pro library featuring Wayne Bergeron, Legendary Trombone library featuring Andy Martin, and WarpIV PRO Woodwinds library featuring Eric Marienthal. All of these guys are famous world-renowned jazz and studio musicians.
> 
> ...


My late friend Marshall Such was an enthusiastic customer of yours, and demonstrated it for me. It is indeed a fine library and sounds great. My personal opinion is that it could use some updated scripting and a more competitive pricing scheme, but there’s no question that it is capable of achieving some remarkable results.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> it seems to me that the BL instruments have enough quality to stand as exposed solos in small ensembles. Here's a random Tpt/Ten/Tbone modern-ish jazz track. No articulations used, just the legatos:
> 
> View attachment BL-ModernJazz.mp3


Rob, as with every demo of yours (including all of those in this thread), I’m reminded that it’s not the sculptor’s tools that make the difference, it’s the skill of the sculptor.


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## Rob (Jul 9, 2022)

NYC Composer said:


> Rob, as with every demo of yours (including all of those in this thread), I’m reminded that it’s not the sculptor’s tools that make the difference, it’s the skill of the sculptor.


Thank you Larry, though at least for the last two examples of mine, I don't think I could have gotten the same result with any of the other libraries I own... in a more general sense I agree that the musician matters more than the tool


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## NYC Composer (Jul 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> Thank you Larry, though at least for the last two examples of mine, I don't think I could have gotten the same result with any of the other libraries I own... in a more general sense I agree that the musician matters more than the tool


Ya, on the other hand I’ve heard a demo or two of yours using the Garritan JABB that smoked most of mine


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## WarpIV (Jul 9, 2022)

NYC Composer said:


> My late friend Marshall Such was an enthusiastic customer of yours, and demonstrated it for me. It is indeed a fine library and sounds great. My personal opinion is that it could use some updated scripting and a more competitive pricing scheme, but there’s no question that it is capable of achieving some remarkable results.


The woodwinds were completely revamped with new scripting and lots of great features, but the trumpets and trombones still use SIPS. Eventually, I’ll make the trumpets and trombones consistent with the woodwinds. Right now, I am focusing on my WarpIV PRO 3D Monster Drum Kit library. It is a huge project…


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## NYC Composer (Jul 10, 2022)

View attachment 1940s-Slow-Dance 2.mp3

Meanwhile, back in the land of SM (and SWAM clarinet) I wrote this little ditty. Oh, the bone solo is from HB “jazz trombone.”


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 10, 2022)

NYC Composer said:


> View attachment 1940s-Slow-Dance 2.mp3
> 
> Meanwhile, back in the land of SM (and SWAM clarinet) I wrote this little ditty. Oh, the bone solo is from HB “jazz trombone.”


The perfect music to help mellow out Sunday morning regrets!


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 10, 2022)

Jrides said:


> Well ummmm. RIP money. You and @Bee_Abney are totally to blame for my new enhanced state of poverty. After hearing your demo I was so blinded by desire to purchase this library, that I think I tried to shove my credit card directly into my computer monitor?
> 
> 
> I mean…….um yeah.



As you've bought them already, I don't suppose you'll be wanting a demo anymore! Instead, I'm looking forward to hearing what you make with them!

You're right that there is a marcato listed for the trumpets. Unfortunately, there's not an indication in the GUI as to which keyswitch is the marcato, I'm not sure which one it is. There are a few that it could be.

This is just a collection of stabs going up and down the keyswitches, with no real attempt to be musical. First with a fixed dominant seventh chord shape, and then with unison. Just the trumpets, no processing, no dynamics or volume altering. This might give anyone considering Broadway Lites an idea of what the trumpets play like without any finessing.


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## daychase (Jul 10, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> You're right that there is a marcato listed for the trumpets. Unfortunately, there's not an indication in the GUI as to which keyswitch is the marcato, I'm not sure which one it is. There are a few that it could be.


According to the manual, it requires two keys to be held: A0 and G#0 (A1 and G#1 in Logic Pro's piano roll). I feel it's not much stronger than the regular sustain, though.

With that said - I hope this is going to be worth it! I'll just have to tell myself this is the last thing I'm getting for now, no exceptions. 😖

View attachment Merrily We Roll Along Overture.mp3


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 10, 2022)

daychase said:


> According to the manual, it requires two keys to be held: A0 and G#0 (A1 and G#1 in Logic Pro's piano roll). I feel it's not much stronger than the regular sustain, though.
> 
> With that said - I hope this is going to be worth it! I'll just have to tell myself this is the last thing I'm getting for now, no exceptions. 😖
> 
> View attachment Merrily We Roll Along Overture.mp3


That sounds very good.

You mean, there are benefits to reading the manual?!

I couldn't find it actually, so I was trying to work it out - I'll have to re-download it.


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## daychase (Jul 10, 2022)

It should be "Broadway LITEs/Documentation/Broadway LITEs - Manual v2.0.pdf" in the folder you have the library installed!


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## jesussaddle (Jul 11, 2022)

WarpIV said:


> You can control the vibrato rates. It’s pretty elaborate in SIPS with the trumpet and trombones. To make things simple for the woodwinds, you can set the rate in various ways, but you can’t change it dynamically.


Oh, then that's quite impressive.


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## jesussaddle (Jul 11, 2022)

EanS said:


> If you're unable to see the RTO on Broadway LITEs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really good information, thank you. I usually don't get that involved but perhaps its quite nice for brief background stuff?


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 11, 2022)

EanS said:


> here's after a bit of work.
> 
> Flute 1: Xsample's Alto Flute
> Flute 2: Opus 2 Flutes
> ...


That's really nice. It has quite an old-fashioned tone to it, although the production/audio quality feels very modern. With a touch of saturation, some vintage reverb and vinyl efffects, this would sound very much like a 60s recording.


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## EanS (Jul 11, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That's really nice. It has quite an old-fashioned tone to it, although the production/audio quality feels very modern. With a touch of saturation, some vintage reverb and vinyl efffects, this would sound very much like a 60s recording.


Brass Section in OPUS has a "Vintage" Mic. I assume it has something to do with it. I also mix with Mixbus which has Tape so there's another layer I'll add when finishing it properly. Yeyyy. 

And well, I do it for the learning curve and how to connect articulations where here it is impossible using keyswitches at least at my playing level. I think the best approach for a workflow, just like with Broadway LT's (THANK YOU @Bee_Abney  ) , is just record / write / play all longs or shorts and then thanks to S1 sound variations ( in OPUS they load automatically) you just edit notes with such articulations. 

The curve is getting to know all articulations behavior, for instance in OPUS some FX ones like a trill, are 1 8va higher in the keyboard range, so you can end assigning articulation and get a dead note. For instance "Grace note" is one perfect articulation I don't see on other libs. 

I will eventually sit down again and try to create the Sound Variations fro Brodway's LT, once done I'll share here. I think that the trick is assigning the Sustain as "Note On" only and the "Staccato and Staccattisimo On/Off" or vice versa. But I will crack that maybe just like Hollywood Pop Brass, will have to create a special sound variation set for the FX's and leave them in a single track so they don't clash. 

I shall prevail, one day. Can't Atomic (dollar went up like crazy here and just dented my car 🤣), but can spend lots of time dealing with this lib where the saxes do fill my need better or complementary to Austin Saxes., I'll get my stanky funky lines. Ah, as a common practice, I set Velocity curve in Options = 18 to 22. 

My next one is Peaches in Regalia, then I'll do my own stuff with mah guitar. It's weird that in the guitar playing realm people upload freaking Sweet Home California or Hotel California solo, every damn weekend and everyone liking and wow. You upload or share mocks where you had to apply a bunch of way complex technical and musical understanding, and... meh xD

If non guitar players knew that more than 80% of hotel california solo players have no idea what key, scale and notes they are playing... 🧐


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 11, 2022)

EanS said:


> Brass Section in OPUS has a "Vintage" Mic. I assume it has something to do with it. I also mix with Mixbus which has Tape so there's another layer I'll add when finishing it properly. Yeyyy.
> 
> And well, I do it for the learning curve and how to connect articulations where here it is impossible using keyswitches at least at my playing level. I think the best approach for a workflow, just like with Broadway LT's (THANK YOU @Bee_Abney  ) , is just record / write / play all longs or shorts and then thanks to S1 sound variations ( in OPUS they load automatically) you just edit notes with such articulations.
> 
> ...


Broadway Lites does have a nice feature, that you can alter the articulation (in some respects - e.g. flutter) part way through. So, you'll have that to get to grips with too. I have a very long way to go with that library to get close to getting the best results from it; but I like that I can use it well enough quite easily to get some of its better sounds in the mix.

Yes, I expect that vintage microphone made a big difference to my impression.

I don't know much about Hotel California solos! But playing it really well is impressive, regardless off how you learned it. I guess that the people you are referring to are a) more interested in musicianship than composition and b) influenced by hearing a song they like, and responding more positively because of it. I wouldn't let it get you down!


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## jesussaddle (Jul 11, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Broadway Lites does have a nice feature, that you can alter the articulation (in some respects - e.g. flutter) part way through. So, you'll have that to get to grips with too. I have a very long way to go with that library to get close to getting the best results from it; but I like that I can use it well enough quite easily to get some of its better sounds in the mix.
> 
> Yes, I expect that vintage microphone made a big difference to my impression.
> 
> I don't know much about Hotel California solos! But playing it really well is impressive, regardless off how you learned it. I guess that the people you are referring to are a) more interested in musicianship than composition and b) influenced by hearing a song they like, and responding more positively because of it. I wouldn't let it get you down!


I decided to purchase it along with that Sordina effect plugin ($15) that has that assortment of IRs. 

I think vibrato is one of the weaknesses (due to the age when this was done and the difference in scripting methods from that time) along with dynamics. I've always wondered about using Melodyne or Variaudio as a method to enhance vibrato - even if its possible it does seem rather time-intensive. But no matter, at this point I only plan to be able to use these sounds more or less unrealistically. You know, one of my all time favorite popular tracks (as much for the lyrics and the composition/delivery) is Peter Murphy's Cuts You Up that had a fairly unrealistic violin sample that he got and took to the studio with him.


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## jesussaddle (Jul 11, 2022)

EanS said:


> here's after a bit of work.
> 
> Flute 1: Xsample's Alto Flute
> Flute 2: Opus 2 Flutes
> ...


Huge difference. Thanks for doing that!


----------



## jesussaddle (Jul 11, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I prefer New Orleans Brass in this case. But I think that Broadway Lites has the nicest top end (it has no low end at all, including the other instruments I didn't use).
> 
> It's simply too big a job for me right now to properly program each of these performances. But this does give at least a little taste of what these libraries have.


I noticed that too and its the easiest to fix.


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## sumskilz (Jul 11, 2022)

EanS said:


> Brass Section in OPUS has a "Vintage" Mic. I assume it has something to do with it.


Also, the EastWest Studio One live room is pretty much identical to the way it was when it was built in 1965.

Same room:


----------



## EanS (Jul 12, 2022)

A final quick draw on the *Broadway Lites, WYSIWYG as seen on screen.

Guitar
BFD3
EzBass
*Bari Sax
*Trumpet 1
*Trumpet 1 as Trumpet 2

No comp, no reverb, no massaging nor quantizing. Just fixed the note lengths. No articulations loaded either. 

_*Edit:* I don't know what length a video is supported here, so I 'm replacing the original with 3 loops of the same and I solo Broadway Lites so you can listen to it as dry as a mummy's spit. _


View attachment 2022-07-12 22-19-45.mp4


----------



## EanS (Jul 12, 2022)

I somehow messed up the tempo in the video before recording, and well.

Now proper tempo, and quick front mix. Still not touching midi. 

View attachment FunkOne Quickmix2.mp3


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

EanS said:


> I somehow messed up the tempo in the video before recording, and well.
> 
> Now proper tempo, and quick front mix. Still not touching midi.
> 
> View attachment FunkOne Quickmix2.mp3


It's funny how all those technical things go wrong when you want to share a demo, isn't it! It happens to me all the time.

However, even the version with the wrong timing shows how good Broadway Lites can sound; and the one with the right tempo and timing - absolutely awesome!

I'm so glad to have a thread (and forum) like this so I can learn how much more I could be getting out of my libraries!


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## EanS (Jul 13, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> It's funny how all those technical things go wrong when you want to share a demo, isn't it! It happens to me all the time.


They have to happen 🤣


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## Living Fossil (Jul 16, 2022)

To those who own Broadway Lite:

Has anybody found a way how to use Growl (e.g. in Trumpet1)?
The only reference in the manual is how to use it in notation mode.

In the list with key switches it's missing.
I can activate it when clicking on the tab, but I haven't found a way to automate it.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> To those who own Broadway Lite:
> 
> Has anybody found a way how to use Growl (e.g. in Trumpet1)?
> The only reference in the manual is how to use it in notation mode.
> ...


A#-2 in Notation mode. G#-1 takes you to 'Flutter Off' which switches off 'Growl' or 'Flutter'. This is probably the one you read about.

This works on Trumpet 1. I thought I had it working in Standard mode but I tried again and I can't get it to work.


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> A#-2 in Notation mode. G#-1 takes you to 'Flutter Off' which switches off 'Growl' or 'Flutter'. This is probably the one you read about.
> 
> This works on Trumpet 1. I thought I had it working in Standard mode but I tried again and I can't get it to work.


May I ask you a question? (since I haven't continued checking it yet). 

Does Notation Mode work different on S1 w/ Sound Variations or it's just the same as regular mode? 

So real question is. 

Do you find better working *Using Sound Variations with Notation Mode KS or Regular Mode? Idea is populating Sound Variations. Seems Notation more straightforward / friendly but I see less articulations? 

Thanks, since you've been with this lib more in depth, my apologies for shortcutting this and avoid the A/B myself. 

(*) I'm assuming you work with them


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> May I ask you a question? (since I haven't continued checking it yet).
> 
> Does Notation Mode work different on S1 w/ Sound Variations or it's just the same as regular mode?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I've never yet used the Sound Variations! I know it's awful, because it should be really useful, but I haven't learned how to use it at all. It looks pretty straightforward, but I haven't set it up and tried it with Notation Mode or Standard. There should be more options and different keys with Notation Mode, though; so you would have to set it up separately to Standard - or, perhaps its more a case of you need to set up more to cover Notation Mode too.


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I've never yet used the Sound Variations! I know it's awful, because it should be really useful, but I haven't learned how to use it at all. It looks pretty straightforward, but I haven't set it up and tried it with Notation Mode or Standard. There should be more options and different keys with Notation Mode, though; so you would have to set it up separately to Standard - or, perhaps its more a case of you need to set up more to cover Notation Mode too.



Would you like me to show you short vid showing how? Nah, here it is (OBS is messing with my pitch, so it sounds weird and farty):

 

In the example there are shorts and longs. Patch is 8dio's 8W Brass shorts. So I need it to play at least Stacatto or Stacattisimo on shorts, and a Marcato on longs notes. Well, it can be sustain and etc.. but for the sake of the Sound Variations, you create one set or Sound Variations per instrument.


I'll summarize the workflow in text:

You just play or write the notes, and then in the editor you can either use right mouse and "Apply Sound Variation" to that note or group of notes selected and done. Also, below like Velocity, Modulation, Pitch, there's Sound Variations, there you just edit from the bar if you want. No more writing notes for KS, just right click and chose.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> Would you like me to show you short vid showing how? Nah, here it is (OBS is messing with my pitch, so it sounds weird and farty):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's brilliant, thank you! Now, I just have to do this for every instrument I use without making any mistakes! (Well, mistakes can be corrected; and I can take my time.)

While the gain is marginal for one quick bit of music with a single track, I bet it adds up quickly over time to make life a lot easier.


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That's brilliant, thank you! Now, I just have to do this for every instrument I use without making any mistakes! (Well, mistakes can be corrected; and I can take my time.)
> 
> While the gain is marginal for one quick bit of music with a single track, I bet it adds up quickly over time to make life a lot easier.


It helps you auditioning articulations on the spot and how they will land.

Just check constantly that Sound variations bar because if you start changing back and forth them on a note or chord, it stacks up and you can end with 4 articulations in less tan one bar overlapped in the bar (just move it with the mouse, or right click and delete when you see a cluster). When that overlapping occurs, sound variation doesn't fire up or farts combining more than one and you ask why... It's there the problem.

Also you can color code them so no need to read. It really made all my libraries make more sense. Yes, you end editing more than performing, but those aren't the instruments I can play, just understand or need. The one I play, I manage to do it right and no editing, Of course that means 86 takes 😂

(_that wrench for Sound Variations disappears when you move the editor window too low_)


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> It helps you auditioning articulations on the spot and how they will land.
> 
> Just check constantly that Sound variations bar because if you start changing back and forth them on a note or chord, it stacks up and you can end with 4 articulations in less tan one bar overlapped in the bar (just move it with the mouse, or right click and delete when you see a cluster). When that overlapping occurs, sound variation doesn't fire up or farts combining more than one and you ask why... It's there the problem.
> 
> ...


Oh, my approach is usually to just perform it once and leave it at that. Yes, it's absolutely awful and full of mistakes; but I just copy and paste it so that it repeats exactly the same way and then it looks like I meant to do it.

But this should be useful. I usually perform with a long articulation and then add extra articulations either by keyswitching or by moving some notes to another track or two for the other articulations (it can be useful to save time automating volume when there are dramatic volume discrepancies between the articulations). I definitely need to get into the Sound Variations now to see if I find it much easier.

Thank you so much! And I'm sorry I couldn't help you with your question.


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Oh, my approach is usually to just perform it once and leave it at that. Yes, it's absolutely awful and full of mistakes; but I just copy and paste it so that it repeats exactly the same way and then it looks like I meant to do it.
> 
> But this should be useful. I usually perform with a long articulation and then add extra articulations either by keyswitching or by moving some notes to another track or two for the other articulations (it can be useful to save time automating volume when there are dramatic volume discrepancies between the articulations). I definitely need to get into the Sound Variations now to see if I find it much easier.
> 
> Thank you so much! And I'm sorry I couldn't help you with your question.


I'll find the answer when I sit down and populate the Sound Variations, but indeed your post helped me notice that there are two sets of articulations and I didn't noticed.

If you see in the video, Sound Variations adds automatically the following KS by semitones, of course
you can change any value, but if on Notation mode starts on Key 1 and then 2 and etc... but what do they mean to 1, 2, 3, etc...? so I need to find out in the options in Sound Variations






If it's "Controller" "Program Change" "Bank Change" or "Channel Change" for Notation Mode, since Note on/off is regarding pitch.

I know it's new to you so there's no answer there but that's where the solution resides for the Notation Mode + Sound Variations.

Notice the detail in the manual that you might activate Notation Mode and save as a new instrument to load it as Notation Mode.

(_truth be told I'm enduring all these details just to make Bradway Lites work well and don't get depressed on my unaffordability for the Atomic Big Band one _  )

I shalt compensate lack of budget with hours spent trying to get similar results, it will prove once and for all that... I'm broke  ...


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> I'll find the answer when I sit down and populate the Sound Variations, but indeed your post helped me notice that there are two sets of articulations and I didn't noticed.
> 
> If you see in the video, Sound Variations adds automatically the following KS by semitones, of course
> you can change any value, but if on Notation mode starts on Key 1 and then 2 and etc... but what do they mean to 1, 2, 3, etc...? so I need to find out in the options in Sound Variations
> ...


Thanks!

The price for the full version is a relic of an earlier time; I think they might make more money from it if they lowered the price. Even more if they brought out an updated version at a lower price. But, business is hard! I'll leave it to them to make their own judgements and just pine from a distance!


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The price for the full version is a relic of an earlier time; I think they might make more money from it if they lowered the price. Even more if they brought out an updated version at a lower price. But, business is hard! I'll leave it to them to make their own judgements and just pine from a distance!


I meant Straightahead ones. That level of broke.  

No way I'd upgrade to a left out in the wild library since 2017. Indeed I ask you questions because I truly believe there's not even support there. I mean, there must be someone but I don't want to interrupt their day job.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> I meant Straightahead ones. That level of broke.
> 
> No way I'd upgrade to a left out in the wild library since 2017. Indeed I ask you questions because I truly believe there's not even support there. I mean, there must be someone but I don't want to interrupt their day job.


Straightahead is a great choice. I have the clarinet, but the rest will have to wait quite some time!


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Straightahead is a great choice. I have the clarinet, but the rest will have to wait quite some time!


You're in luck. Attached is the sound variations for La Clarinette en Rose (place file in _*Studio One\Presets\User Presets\Key Switches*_ )

Where I used it for mocking this solo (notice Smart Delay doesn't work because I edited tf out of it rather than leaving a legato do its job as we see in demos)


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## Jrides (Jul 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> I shalt compensate lack of budget with hours spent trying to get similar results, it will prove once and for all that... I'm broke  ...



I didn’t even realize atomic Big band was available on pre-order SMH. it has a darker tone than this library. Possibly because of the close mics (trumpet). For that price though, I think I’m better off combining Broadway Lites with sample modeling trumpet and trombone. Honestly, four the pre-order asking price, I bought SM, BL, and the Bible of pop Latin salsa. I should be in pretty good shape for the foreseeable future. However… If straight ahead… at some point in the far away future drops it to 50% off… I might have to take another look ugh…

right now I need to focus on getting my new system fully set up so I can start downloading and using some of these, instead of talking about them on this thread.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> You're in luck. Attached is the sound variations for La Clarinette en Rose (place file in _*Studio One\Presets\User Presets\Key Switches*_ )
> 
> Where I used it for mocking this solo (notice Smart Delay doesn't work because I edited tf out of it rather than leaving a legato do its job as we see in demos)



That's fantastic - the music, that is; you sending me the sound variations or La Clarinette en Rose is fantastic too! I'll load them up tomorrow and I'll test it out. Since I got it, I've found myself finding that there is space for a solo clarinet in my music so much more than before!


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

Jrides said:


> I didn’t even realize atomic Big band was available on pre-order SMH. it has a darker tone than this library. Possibly because of the close mics (trumpet). For that price though, I think I’m better off combining Broadway Lites with sample modeling trumpet and trombone. Honestly, four the pre-order asking price, I bought SM, BL, and the Bible of pop Latin salsa. I should be in pretty good shape for the foreseeable future. However… If straight ahead… at some point in the far away future drops it to 50% off… I might have to take another look ugh…
> 
> right now I need to focus on getting my new system fully set up so I can start downloading and using some of these, instead of talking about them on this thread.


Broadway Lites is a single close mic, so that's why I claim that it's drier than... a mannequin's kiss, for instance. These are also, like Atomic, thought as solo instruments but can perform on ensembles too but not as massive as orchestral size.

Send them to a room, adjust the tail and the mid highs aren't such "in your face", Broadway Lites indeed for me is a "mostly post production library" where Atomic I see them as all Pre production done already and finish it with a post production.

Results on both libraries have to be the same though, an audience that likes the music, since no one cares about the instruments when dancing or grooving or jamming or doing the mashed potato, or the jumpin' jack flash, or the alligator 🎶


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That's fantastic - the music, that is; you sending me the sound variations or La Clarinette en Rose is fantastic too! I'll load them up tomorrow and I'll test it out. Since I got it, I've found myself finding that there is space for a solo clarinet in my music so much more than before!


Oh no, it's John Williams , Catch me if you can 🥺. A mock I did always under my constant dilettante mindset. Solo is here too

View attachment Catch Me_session.mp3


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## Jrides (Jul 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> Broadway Lites is a single close mic, so that's why I claim that it's drier than... a mannequin's kiss, for instance. These are also, like Atomic thought as solo instruments but can perform on ensembles too but not as massive as orchestral size.
> 
> Send them to a room, adjust the tail and the mid highs aren't such "in your face", Broadway Lites indeed for me is a "mostly post production library" where Atomic I see them as all Pre production done already and finish it with a post production.
> 
> Results on both libraries have to be the same though, an audience that likes the music, since no one cares about the instruments when dancing or grooving or jamming or doing the mashed potato, or the jumpin' jack flash, or the alligator 🎶


I agree. It’s a very dry library. Which is what I prefer. However the comparison chart lists BL is having a loose mic for the trumpet. They make the distinction between loose and close in their documentation. unless there is a drastic reduction in the upgrade price to the Big band version, will never ever know the difference lol.









Product Comparison Charts – Fable Sounds






fablesounds.com


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

Jrides said:


> I agree. It’s a very dry library. Which is what I prefer. However the comparison chart lists BL is having a loose mic for the trumpet. They make the distinction between loose and close in their documentation. unless there is a drastic reduction in the upgrade price to the Big band version, will never ever know the difference lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Drier than lice on a wig.


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

Also, drier than a office ceiling jerky sandwich...

i think I'll stop now


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## EanS (Jul 16, 2022)

ok... 

Drier than Cheops Pyramid's Piping system 

(_you can report me now..._)


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 17, 2022)

EanS said:


> You're in luck. Attached is the sound variations for La Clarinette en Rose (place file in _*Studio One\Presets\User Presets\Key Switches*_ )
> 
> Where I used it for mocking this solo (notice Smart Delay doesn't work because I edited tf out of it rather than leaving a legato do its job as we see in demos)



I've got it working, and it's really promising. Thank you once again! For some occasions I'd still want to record in the key switching while tracking; but for other this is going to be perfect. Thanks for pushing/inspiring me to finally embrace this recent addition to Studio One. Obviously articulations are vital for creating life-like jazz passages, so it is good to have this very straightforward way of adding any in I want whilst editing.


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## EanS (Jul 17, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I've got it working, and it's really promising. Thank you once again! For some occasions I'd still want to record in the key switching while tracking; but for other this is going to be perfect. Thanks for pushing/inspiring me to finally embrace this recent addition to Studio One. Obviously articulations are vital for creating life-like jazz passages, so it is good to have this very straightforward way of adding any in I want whilst editing.


Indeed, this library and the whole smart delay philosophy behind it is what makes it precisely to do what you intend to. So there will always performance in the track, all the rest will be post decisions, like "maybe a flutter here than a growl", rather than a new take.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 17, 2022)

EanS said:


> Indeed, this library and the whole smart delay philosophy behind it is what makes it precisely to do what you intend to. So there will always performance in the track, all the rest will be post decisions, like "maybe a flutter here than a growl", rather than a new take.


Exactly! It's a great instrument, great for jazz and much more besides. One by one, I'm going to get the other Smart Delay instruments. My current projects are dominated by synthetic sounds, so I'm not in a hurry.


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## ananth725 (Jul 19, 2022)

Between the Broadway Lites and the Hollywood Pop Brass, which one would be a better pick? Just curious, because the Broadway Lites is an older produced sample library. I may be wrong here, but just wanted to know what people having / used these libraries think. Thank you!


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## EanS (Jul 19, 2022)

ananth725 said:


> Between the Broadway Lites and the Hollywood Pop Brass, which one would be a better pick? Just curious, because the Broadway Lites is an older produced sample library. I may be wrong here, but just wanted to know what people having / used these libraries think. Thank you!


In short, two main aspects.

Broadway Lites is single instruments with a single spot mic, where Pop Brass is an Ensemble with 5 mics.

Pop Brass has spot mics in the Ensemble, but they all bleed too, so you can't solo one without getting the other. Also Sax is barely noticeable on Pop Brass.

Cheap Analogy:

Broadway Lites= BBCO
Pop Brass = Albion One

🤔


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## sumskilz (Jul 19, 2022)

ananth725 said:


> Between the Broadway Lites and the Hollywood Pop Brass, which one would be a better pick? Just curious, because the Broadway Lites is an older produced sample library. I may be wrong here, but just wanted to know what people having / used these libraries think. Thank you!


Broadway Lites can sound pretty good, depending on the context, and how much you want to massage the MIDI. Whereas anything with connected notes sounds terribly fake with Hollywood Pop Brass, unless you’re just using the prerecorded phrases. In fact, if you’ve heard Hollywood Pop Brass sounding realistic, you were probably hearing the prerecorded phrases. Otherwise, it tends to sound quite a bit like ‘90s rompler horns. I have it at no extra cost with Composer Cloud, and to me, it isn’t worth the disk space to have it installed.

Keep in mind, I’ve played with and recorded real horn sections for a couple decades, so I might be hypercritical, but then, I do think Broadway Lites can sound decent.


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## ananth725 (Jul 19, 2022)

sumskilz said:


> Broadway Lites can sound pretty good, depending on the context, and how much you want to massage the MIDI. Whereas anything with connected notes sounds terribly fake with Hollywood Pop Brass, unless you’re just using the prerecorded phrases. In fact, if you’ve heard Hollywood Pop Brass sounding realistic, you were probably hearing the prerecorded phrases. Otherwise, it tends to sound quite a bit like ‘90s rompler horns. I have it at no extra cost with Composer Cloud, and to me, it isn’t worth the disk space to have it installed.
> 
> Keep in mind, I’ve played with and recorded real horn sections for a couple decades, so I might be hypercritical, but then, I do think Broadway Lites can sound decent.


You saved my money going the wrong way. Thank you!


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## EanS (Jul 23, 2022)

Alright! Broadway Lites becoming more favorite now that I cracked Sound Variations under Notation Mode. So @Bee_Abney and all Studio One users with Broadway Lites, allow me to introduce *Sound Variations Notation Mode for Trumpet 1* and how I got there:

First and foremost:

C-2 = *0*
C#-2 = *1*
D-2 = *2* etc... until
G8 = *127 *(G8 is the most important because it's RESET)
So, you assign accordingly upon this table






Here are the Sound Variations Map (i.e. Staccatisimo is *1* which equals C#-2 as above)

_Chose "Use Activation Sequence" in the drop down menu above, so you deactivate keyswitches. All are ON/Off Notes. No Momentary ones . _*Input Note is not relevant the value you have, since Keyswitches are disabled*






Now, for sake the of the effectiveness and as stated in the Manual, better A_ctivate Notation Mode, Save as... a second instrument version with Notation_ as extension.






The patch itself is a legato patch, so you just play all the notes, and your *Constant Legato Mode* will be Sound Variation G8 (called Reset).

Upon Reset Sound Variation as a first articulation all the way in the Sound Variations Modulation lane, you just add new articulations/sound variations in between, but always using *Reset* sound variation (G8) to go back to regular legato.

Now you have a playable and quickly editable instrument.

And here's a very quick crappy example, you can read below the articulations, I didn't match them well with the playing but it can follow changes accordingly.

View attachment 2022-07-23 22-49-03.mp4


Bam Fablesounds!!! If you existed irl you would know Notation Mode does work as intended. Probably in Cubase with Expression Maps it has the same philosophy, just find/confirm the *0 note*


(zip File with Sound Variations for Trumpet 1 is in next updated post)


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 24, 2022)

EanS said:


> Alright! Broadway Lites becoming more favorite now that I cracked Sound Variations under Notation Mode. So @Bee_Abney and all Studio One users with Broadway Lites, allow me to introduce *Sound Variations Notation Mode for Trumpet 1* and how I got there:
> 
> First and foremost:
> 
> ...


Positively heroic! Thank you so much! I'm looking forward to trying all this out.


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## EanS (Jul 24, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Positively heroic! Thank you so much! I'm looking forward to trying all this out.


Much Obliged. Please, whenever you have the time give it a go to see if works properly. I might update the file if I find a detail which I bet I have one around, there's always something there.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 24, 2022)

EanS said:


> Much Obliged. Please, whenever you have the time give it a go to see if works properly. I might update the file if I find a detail which I bet I have one around, there's always something there.


I shall let you know if I spot anything amiss, awry or askew.


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## EanS (Jul 24, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I shall let you know if I spot anything amiss, awry or askew.


I already found issues. Some keys clash with other functions. So far until "fall up" all works.


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## EanS (Jul 24, 2022)

Here's an update. Cool thing is you can read articulations changing in Broadway Lites widow too.

Can't get to work:

Rip up into short notes
Fast Attack in Flutter
_*Sfz* _(There's no such articulation named Sforzando alone in regular Keyswitches) 
_*Grace Note *_(Grace Note clashes with A-1 command which is also for Kbd+Midi or Midi CC only button)
Shake Fast
Shale Slow
Progressive Vibrato


View attachment 2022-07-24 16-36-18.mp4


There 6 articulations that need to fin the note, if they are there, maybe C7 to C8, dunno, -C2 to almost C0 are used.

I'll give up now, and will probably have a different approach and create two sets of Sound Variations, where there's this one, plus a second sound variation for the lacking ones + maybe another ones.

That will mean 2 tracks, and that's not that tragic. 

Attached is latest version. I deleted past one


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## EanS (Jul 24, 2022)

Aaand here's in action to show how it changes articulations in RT.


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## EanS (Jul 24, 2022)

Now I take the same line above and do this. 



First Trumpet Solo then, I add a little tail and a little comp. 

Second I add randomly a Second Trumpet, a Trombone, even an Soprano Sax instead of an Alto, a Tenor Sax and a Bari. Then transposed octaves. 

Third, I play the same line, same instruments, but in "Unison Mode". Way rounder, isn't it? 

Check how you have to number each instrument. 

Finally, all dry and dry solo instruments.


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## daychase (Jul 24, 2022)

If we're doing this, I'll share my Articulation Settings for Logic Pro X too! All the articulations should be set up properly (for Standard, non-Notation mode); if anyone wants to use this, you might want to set up the custom Switches to suit your needs, but everything else is fully set up.
This folder should go in Music/Audio Music Apps/Articulation Settings, and Logic Pro should be able to recognize it from there.


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## EanS (Jul 24, 2022)

daychase said:


> If we're doing this, I'll share my Articulation Settings for Logic Pro X too! All the articulations should be set up properly (for Standard, non-Notation mode); if anyone wants to use this, you might want to set up the custom Switches to suit your needs, but everything else is fully set up.
> This folder should go in Music/Audio Music Apps/Articulation Settings, and Logic Pro should be able to recognize it from there.


Awesome How do you setup the combo ones? Can you please share a screenshot of the Articulations Settings and the keys/etc...

Thanks!


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## daychase (Jul 24, 2022)

Logic Pro X's Articulation Settings lets you map multiple outputs into each articulation! I imagine Studio One should have something similar, considering that I'm pretty sure VSL's Synchron sound variations will need it too.


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## EanS (Jul 24, 2022)

daychase said:


> Logic Pro X's Articulation Settings lets you map multiple outputs into each articulation! I imagine Studio One should have something similar, considering that I'm pretty sure VSL's Synchron sound variations will need it too.


Alright. So it's all "Note on". Stacked from up to down, right? 

I recall manual says D#0 / C#0, you are using D#1 / 0#1, ohwhyyy? XD 

And ok, "multiple outputs" is the key. Gotta check out that. 


Thanks a lot!


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 25, 2022)

EanS said:


> Now I take the same line above and do this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I got busy today. But I'll have to check all this out. This is like having a quick class with a practical exam!


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## EanS (Jul 25, 2022)

Alright, scratch that. Thanks to @daychase 's inspiration, now I've succeeded to make it work under Standard mode. Notation mode was almost perfect, but had conflict in some commands.

All matching nicely.

View attachment 2022-07-25 19-08-21.mp4


_Activation Sequence Mode is used, so No Keyswitches enabled. That's the trick. _

All notes are On/Off. Staccato takes over if it's only "On" note

What I found out is that you should start populating Keyswitches by first adding the single key ones, then add the combo ones, otherwise it will start changing.

Second is that I started the keyswitches based upon the info on the Kontakt piano keys and the information the "Temporary Articulation" window was giving. Some keys don't have a name that shows in that window, but they must mee added (for the combo) so one I called the Sustain Pedal (which is), a Portamento one and a Sforzando one.

Finally, the manual sucks there's two articulations using the same keys and there's no Key Swicth indication for the "Growl On" switch so after pressing monk on a jam, I found it (A0 + F0).

"Switch to" articulations are omitted so far, it's the same as regular articulation, I'll see if there' any difference.

Final battle won. No more Notation mode. Attached are the Sound Variations for Standard mode for the Trumpet 1.

_This is an exercise on "how to get working a library that many gave up after first impressions"_


----------



## jesussaddle (Jul 27, 2022)

I'm on the fence with so much of the sample stuff. I came across this, its very old and from a very small company. Interesting that it's still for sale - just another variation of a sax library that captures a certain playing style (smooth jazz I guess).





And while this isn't a sampled saxophone it gives a shining example of what a real saxophone in the hands of a real player can do (Tune should be called, "C'mon Dukes o' Hazzard"):



I'm contemplating either Sample Modeling or Audio Modeling and can't make up my mind. (AUdio Modeling's All In plan has me intrigued.


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## Rob (Jul 28, 2022)

a very short passage showcasing Swam/AM winds, there wasn't one posted in this thread I think, with saxes, trumpets and bones all from AM. Really short, as that's the leisure time I can afford, promise to do a more complete one when I can... please note that I've been a tester for AM so I'm biased
View attachment Basie Straight Ahead.mp3


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## NYC Composer (Jul 28, 2022)

Rob said:


> a very short passage showcasing Swam/AM winds, there wasn't one posted in this thread I think, with saxes, trumpets and bones all from AM. Really short, as that's the leisure time I can afford, promise to do a more complete one when I can... please note that I've been a tester for AM so I'm biased
> View attachment Basie Straight Ahead.mp3


I’m getting tired of you, Soggetti. That sounds too damn good.

I think you clipped the very beginning off, btw.


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## Rob (Jul 28, 2022)

NYC Composer said:


> I’m getting tired of you, Soggetti. That sounds too damn good.
> 
> I think you clipped the very beginning off, btw.


Hehe Larry, thanks! I think the beginning is too tight, should've allowed a quarter note of silence there... (I mean, before the attack) in order to have a clean first note


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## EanS (Jul 29, 2022)

Rob said:


> Hehe Larry, thanks! I think the beginning is too tight, should've allowed a quarter note of silence there...


Btw thank you for confirming that it's never the bow nor the arrow.

I come from the guitar world and the rule is exactly the same, after two years, a couple thousands moolahs and this post made me realize this.

So easy to get dumbfounded and lose track focusing on the instrument rather than the music itself.


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## K8ch (Nov 8, 2022)

Hi Bee! 

Broadway Lites??? Oh boy..!

I was hoping you (or Rob..or anyone reading this) might have suggestions to help me get a better handle in the articulation key-switching in Broadway Lites.

When loaded into Kontakt, I'm seeing key-switches that don't seem to trigger anything at all.
I know BL uses combinations...but it'll take some time to figure out all out, as I haven't a keyboard hooked up (so holding one note while hitting another i trickier).


Is there a "chart" somewhere that'll show what the key-combinations for the various articulations?

Ultimately, I'm trying to create the Reaticulate reabank for it...so I'd appreciate any suggestions as I'm new at "reaticulate", too.


Peace,
K


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## cmillar (Nov 8, 2022)

Being a trombone player and arranger/composer for live horn sections that I both play and record with, I'm kind of fussy when I have to use sampled horns.

But, I've had Chris Hein Compact for years now, and it's great. Sometimes I'll dub in Sample Modeling Trpt and mix it low. I've even used some old Kirk Hunter trumpets for certain things, as the 'playability' they offer is wonderful similar to the Chris Hein horns.

Worst purchase ever was Session Horns Pro, and I'm not so sure about Hollywood Pro Horns from hearing the demos. Might have to join the Composers Cloud to try them myself.

But I'm lucky to know humans that play these horns.

As a trombone player, please don't use the 'large bore symphonic' trombones for a pop/jazz horn section! Just don't.


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## Markrs (Nov 8, 2022)

cmillar said:


> But, I've had Chris Hein Compact for years now, and it's great.


I hear such mixed reviews on the Chris Hein libraries, it is good to hear that someone that plays trombone professionally rates them.


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## EanS (Nov 8, 2022)

K8ch said:


> Hi Bee!
> 
> Broadway Lites??? Oh boy..!
> 
> ...


It's in the manual, bottom of the page (attached here). Once Studio1 variations existed, this library can work pretty well imo. In Rearticulate it should be the same philosophy. Just add them as shown in the list.
Here's a screenshot, focus on the "Activation Sequence" not the input note.






This is the Trombone Articulations: 







Whole trick (for sound) is learning to use the Unison Section when using more than one instrument, doesn't matter if they're on different tracks or same tracks. Activate Unison and assign a position (1, 2, 3).

Here's a sample. In here is James Brown "The JB's" (1 Trumpet, 1 Sax, 1 Trombone)


View attachment cold sweat.mp4


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## K8ch (Nov 8, 2022)

EanS said:


> It's in the manual, bottom of the page (attached here). Once Studio1 variations existed, this library can work pretty well imo. In Rearticulate it should be the same philosophy. Just add them as shown in the list.
> Here's a screenshot, focus on the "Activation Sequence" not the input note.
> 
> 
> ...





EanS said:


> It's in the manual, bottom of the page (attached here). Once Studio1 variations existed, this library can work pretty well imo. In Rearticulate it should be the same philosophy. Just add them as shown in the list.
> Here's a screenshot, focus on the "Activation Sequence" not the input note.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks so much. The diagram will be helpful. I see there's a lengthy chart, at the end of the manual.
I apologize for asking about something that should've been obvious.
"RTFM", I believe it's called...but it seemed as though some things might be...missing?
Anyway...thank YOU for being so gracious about answering.

Here's a specific problem with the chart in the manual:
The clarinets all seem to have 2 blue key-switches at C#0 and C#1...but I can't see them referred to, in the chartl. 
And while we're at it...why is there a yellow key-switch for the clarinets? What does IT do?

Peace,
Keith


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## EanS (Nov 8, 2022)

K8ch said:


> :
> The clarinets all seem to have 2 blue key-switches at C#0 and C#1...but I can't see them referred to, in the chartl.
> And while we're at it...why is there a yellow key-switch for the clarinets? What does IT do?
> 
> ...


Consider this one is the Lite version where some articulations are missing, I compared to the full version manual and well, didn't give much time but full has couple more articulations than Lite for instance. There might reside the keyswitch that does nothing.


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## cmillar (Nov 8, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I hear such mixed reviews on the Chris Hein libraries, it is good to hear that someone that plays trombone professionally rates them.


Nice thing about the Chris Hein library is that you get a choice of different trumpets to choose for different parts or voices.

And, there are some great interface options to slightly de-tune different notes if you really get fussy.

So, they can sound great when mixed and balanced for a section, because as in real life, not all players have the same horn and same sound.


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## IdealSequenceG (Nov 8, 2022)

I like Session Horns Pro - Tenor Trombone.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 9, 2022)

K8ch said:


> Hi Bee!
> 
> Broadway Lites??? Oh boy..!
> 
> ...


Hey, I see you got this sorted out! @EanS is the one I turn to when I get confused!

Basically, I think it is a case some keys working in combination with others. But thank to @EanS I have another way of accessing the articulations in Studio One with Sound Variations.


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## EanS (Dec 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> Alright! Broadway Lites becoming more favorite now that I cracked Sound Variations under Notation Mode. So @Bee_Abney and all Studio One users with Broadway Lites, allow me to introduce *Sound Variations Notation Mode for Trumpet 1* and how I got there:


It's hell and I don't recommend it anymore. It doesn't understand properly the keyswitches because they clash with a locked/fixed CC I can't remember now, making it impossible to assign in some combo ones.

Stick to regular Sound Variations/Expression Maps and equivalents. Studio One Sound Variations for Broadway Lites are available if you see this.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> It's hell and I don't recommend it anymore. It doesn't understand properly the keyswitches because they clash with a locked/fixed CC I can't remember now, making it impossible to assign in some combo ones.
> Stick to regular Sound Variations/Expression Maps and equivalents.


I bet you're pretty frustrated with that. Sorry to hear it.


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## EanS (Dec 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I bet you're pretty frustrated with that. Sorry to hear it.


Not at all, remember that the Sound Variations I shared are the working ones and don't need the _Notation Mode_ being used. I just answered a couple of days ago someone asking for notation mode, so the post above is to warn future entrepreneurs  to not go via that Notation Mode, I already been there done that.

Every time Broadway Lites is on sale, some new users pop around. In time with luck, there will be Expression Maps and others ready available to share.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> Not at all, remember that the Sound Variations I shared are the working ones and don't need the _Notation Mode_ being used. I just answered a couple of days ago someone asking for notation mode, so the post above is to warn future entrepreneurs  to not go via that Notation Mode, I already been there done that.
> 
> Every time Broadway Lites is on sale, some new users pop around. In time with luck, there will be Expression Maps and others ready available to share.


Sorry, I must be tired and confused. I haven't used these for awhile as I've been very busy (by my standards) with other things. I have such a backlog of things I want to do, and using this library more extensively is very much towards the top of that list. For a long time, I've just used one or two instruments at once.

By the way, the Acoustic Samples Vhorns Saxophones seem to be pretty impressive, and they are back on intro. price. I spent all my budget at Black Friday though!


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## AceAudioHQ (Dec 16, 2022)

By the way, anyone thinking about getting broadway lites, if you haven’t noticed, it is currently 76% off ($119.99) at Audio plugin deals, again









Broadway Lites by Fable Sounds - Audio Plugin Deals


Powered by the free Kontakt 6 player *(also compatible with the latest version of Kontakt 5), it features 15GB of multi-sample content, with over 20,000 unique samples of saxophones, trumpets, trombone and clarinet.




audioplugin.deals





Also, it will receive a 2.2 update soon, I have no idea what the update is about though. FableSounds is also releasing a new library next year


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 16, 2022)

AceAudioHQ said:


> By the way, @daychase and the rest thinking about getting broadway lites, if you haven’t noticed, it is currently 76% off ($119.99) at Audio plugin deals
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am more than a little Paul Thomson about the update and new release.

If they significantly decreased the cost of the upgrade to the full Broadway Big Band, I'd do a Double Paul. (It's a Paul Thomson, but naked. Not something anyone wants to see in my case; but if Paul ever does it...)

I like Broadway Lites. It could definitely benefit from smoother velocity transitions (and more layers), and an update to the programming and GUI. But the samples sound very fine to me. The Lites collection lacks a little body and bass, but has some lovely sounds if you are patient enough to find them.


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## AceAudioHQ (Dec 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> If they significantly decreased the cost of the upgrade to the full Broadway Big Band





Bee_Abney said:


> I like Broadway Lites. It could definitely benefit from smoother velocity transitions (and more layers), and an update to the programming and GUI. But the samples sound very fine to me. The Lites collection lacks a little body and bass, but has some lovely sounds if you are patient enough to find them.


Yea I have no idea why the price is so high still, it’s like a distant memory of the time when eastwest sold the separate parts of Hollywood orchestra for $1500 each, it’s old, the ui is bad, nobody asks that much for a library anymore. Maybe it was abandoned for a long time and the price was just forgotten. Though, it’s on sale at the moment for a measly $2295! The samples are still very nice, many modern libraries still sound somewhat fake for some reason and this old one is still pretty nice

Lets hope the update is something concrete like a revised ui or more balanced dynamics and not just some minor ”fixed a typing error” stuff


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## Jrides (Dec 16, 2022)

Now that some time has passed… I would not recommend Broadway Lites. Unless you are one of the mini sample library hoarders, who use words like “quirky”, to describe broken scripting in libraries. The tone of the instruments, I find very pleasing. However, with volume jumping around, and the transitions between dynamic layers being noticeably pretty bad… This is a hard library to recommend. The orchestrator is a cool idea, and I see what they were going for. However, the library in general is just buggy and inconsistent.

if you are considering this library at the current sale price…. we don’t know when or if an update will actually happen. Furthermore, we don’t know what this hypothetical update would include. It’s a gamble.


That being said, I have used it in a project. The client was very happy with my final product. I’m not entirely sure if I will reach for this library again.


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## EanS (Dec 16, 2022)

AceAudioHQ said:


> Lets hope the update is something concrete like a revised ui or more balanced dynamics and not just some minor ”fixed a typing error” stuff


Exactly, by fixing these two I'd be more than happy. Regarding the full Orchestra, besides the price, the whole Rhythm Section is something I'm not interested at all.

So 3 additional mics (which it's not that essential, the close mic can do all verbs), some missing articulations and 2nd instruments (but still some are simulated legato) in rough is the difference between LiTe and Full.

Great move would be the upgrade available for Reeds and Brass to full + fixing what you said.

They're just great, here's some Peaches en Regalia sections (no mix, just room and a bit comp on bus)


View attachment 2022-12-16 19-33-17.mp4


View attachment 2022-12-16 19-35-34.mp4


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 16, 2022)

Jrides said:


> Now that some time has passed… I would not recommend Broadway Lites. Unless you are one of the mini sample library hoarders, who use words like “quirky”, to describe broken scripting in libraries. The tone of the instruments, I find very pleasing. However, with volume jumping around, and the transitions between dynamic layers being noticeably pretty bad… This is a hard library to recommend. The orchestrator is a cool idea, and I see what they were going for. However, the library in general is just buggy and inconsistent.
> 
> if you are considering this library at the current sale price…. we don’t know when or if an update will actually happen. Furthermore, we don’t know what this hypothetical update would include. It’s a gamble.
> 
> ...


I'd recommend the sound with the caveats about the rest. Where time (or purchasing power) is a huge factor, then the difficulties might well outweigh the good points of some of the samples.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 16, 2022)

EanS said:


> Exactly, by fixing these two I'd be more than happy. Regarding the full Orchestra, besides the price, the whole Rhythm Section is something I'm not interested at all.
> 
> So 3 additional mics (which it's not that essential, the close mic can do all verbs), some missing articulations and 2nd instruments (but still some are simulated legato) in rough is the difference between LiTe and Full.
> 
> ...


The movement between notes.... there are better. But the sound of the notes is great to my ears. Your work with it is great, though!


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## matt-darwin (Dec 26, 2022)

Curious as to whether anyone in this thread has tried the Acoustic Samples VHorn saxophones as yet? I'm currently doing some big band arrangements and using Session Horns Pro in Dorico, which is OK and can get passable results for the arrangements (which are ultimately played by a real band), but I've been very impressed with the demos for VHorn saxophones..... and wanted to see if given the wealth of experience in this thread they stand up when used by a regular user?

I know SWAM saxes gets a lot of praise, but to my ears (as a saxophonist) I don't quite get that yet and it does always sound like a synth to me. This is not the case with the VHorns demos.

So questions would be how they perform when playing back from a scoring tool and how much further work is then required to get those great results or do they need manually playing back (an excuse for me to practise my EWI again of course)?

For context, a few of examples of the playback from Dorico with SHP attached.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YCke5Mw4YFE0v7aNZa1OOW_P0EZKgtxu/view?usp=drivesdk (Norwegian Wood)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WebwfpnQkooCv0Q566G3jeh2z4ucHivb/view?usp=drivesdk (Without A Song)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TjKESET8isjekVjEG_e7Q-O6rr9BHliE/view?usp=drivesdk (God Only Knows)


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 26, 2022)

matt-darwin said:


> Curious as to whether anyone in this thread has tried the Acoustic Samples VHorn saxophones as yet? I'm currently doing some big band arrangements and using Session Horns Pro in Dorico, which is OK and can get passable results for the arrangements (which are ultimately played by a real band), but I've been very impressed with the demos for VHorn saxophones..... and wanted to see if given the wealth of experience in this thread they stand up when used by a regular user?
> 
> I know SWAM saxes gets a lot of praise, but to my ears (as a saxophonist) I don't quite get that yet and it does always sound like a synth to me. This is not the case with the VHorns demos.
> 
> ...


There's a lot of discussion here, if you haven't see it yet:



https://vi-control.net/community/threads/acousticsamples-releases-vhorns-saxophones.130710/



There's quite a lot to sift through there. But this thread is a bit shorter and maybe more on point:






SWAM Saxes vs VHorns Saxes


Have any SWAM sax users had enough time with the new VHorns to give a good comparison? I'm using SWAM for an upcoming Noir project (and Vhorns Brass), and the SWAM saxes are great, but Vhorns brass is probably the best library I've ever used (and Old Black Grand, also from acoustic samples, is...




vi-control.net


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## matt-darwin (Dec 26, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> There's a lot of discussion here, if you haven't see it yet:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you I hadn't seen that first thread but it's very helpful. I think there's a comment in there from a sax player saying the VHorns don't make them cringe, which is my sentiment exactly; and almost every other library that I've does one way or another. 

It's also good to know they sound pretty good without a whole load of tweaking as for that kind of effort I might as well stick a mic in front of my own horns and play all the parts (OK, that's not going to work from trumpets and trombones....)

Given the price in the Xmas sale, I suspect I'll have pulled the trigger within the next day.....


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 26, 2022)

matt-darwin said:


> Thank you I hadn't seen that first thread but it's very helpful. I think there's a comment in there from a sax player saying the VHorns don't make them cringe, which is my sentiment exactly; and almost every other library that I've does one way or another.
> 
> It's also good to know they sound pretty good without a whole load of tweaking as for that kind of effort I might as well stick a mic in front of my own horns and play all the parts (OK, that's not going to work from trumpets and trombones....)
> 
> Given the price in the Xmas sale, I suspect I'll have pulled the trigger within the next day.....


Someone did mention that they may be lacking in the upper dynamics for aggressive playing. None of the VHorns demos for the saxes or brass showcase such playing, so I suspect that may well be true. I haven't bought them yet though; hopefully when the summer sale rolls around I'll buy them and will find out for myself.


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## matt-darwin (Dec 26, 2022)

Ok so I did pull the trigger, and spent a small amount of time moving an arrangment over to use the VHorns (both saxes and brass), along with switching the bass and piano to Acoustic Samples' Upright and Old Black Grand (that sale was very tempting!!!). 

I've not done much more than some minor tweaking of the mic placements and added an expression map to use CC1 for dynamics.

Here are the two tracks to compare, one with the VHorns and the other with NI Session Horns Pro (have to excuse the vocals, I only have a cheesy vox synth at the moment recorded.... and nobody wants to hear that). I've left the NI Session Horns Pro bass trombone in on both takes.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 26, 2022)

matt-darwin said:


> Ok so I did pull the trigger, and spent a small amount of time moving an arrangment over to use the VHorns (both saxes and brass), along with switching the bass and piano to Acoustic Samples' Upright and Old Black Grand (that sale was very tempting!!!).
> 
> I've not done much more than some minor tweaking of the mic placements and added an expression map to use CC1 for dynamics.
> 
> Here are the two tracks to compare, one with the VHorns and the other with NI Session Horns Pro (have to excuse the vocals, I only have a cheesy vox synth at the moment recorded.... and nobody wants to hear that). I've left the NI Session Horns Pro bass trombone in on both takes.


This sounds promising. I'll be interested to hear it after you've had more time to see how natural you can get it to sound.


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## Jrides (Dec 26, 2022)

matt-darwin said:


> Ok so I did pull the trigger, and spent a small amount of time moving an arrangment over to use the VHorns (both saxes and brass), along with switching the bass and piano to Acoustic Samples' Upright and Old Black Grand (that sale was very tempting!!!).
> 
> I've not done much more than some minor tweaking of the mic placements and added an expression map to use CC1 for dynamics.
> 
> Here are the two tracks to compare, one with the VHorns and the other with NI Session Horns Pro (have to excuse the vocals, I only have a cheesy vox synth at the moment recorded.... and nobody wants to hear that). I've left the NI Session Horns Pro bass trombone in on both takes.


What this tells me… vhorns similar to SWAM needs some massaging 00B. It kind of sounds more like an accordion, without any cc work. 
That being said, I really like the arrangement. Nice work.

I think I’ll skip these until the time comes when I purchase and learn to play with a breath controller. I doubt that I would be able to get anything usable out of them, without one.


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## Zanshin (Dec 26, 2022)

I don’t think they need a breath controller, but you’ll want to have some musicality applied to the mod wheel and velocity lol. They have very large sweet spots and are a joy to play.


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## Jrides (Dec 26, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I don’t think they need a breath controller, but you’ll want to have some musicality applied to the mod wheel and velocity lol. They have very large sweet spots and are a joy to play.


You say that… However I have yet to see a user demo that doesn’t use a BC before the one in this post. Feel free to share a little noodle showing how wrong I am about this lol. I don’t think you understand how talented I am at making things sound bad.


for reference Sample Modeling Brass seems to get closer to a realistic sound just plunkking away on the keys.


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## Zanshin (Dec 26, 2022)

Lol. I posted the two VHorn brass noodles the other day. Am I understanding that you think the SM Brass sounds more realistic and is easier to play or am I misunderstanding you?

All the VHorn stuff is easier to play than SM Brass because the sweet spot where it sounds good is very wide, but it’s very similar in how it reacts to expression and velocity. I think it’s also easier because it handles vibrato fairly well automagically for the most part.

If someone wants VIs that do a pretty good job of making quantized notation midi sound good, the Straight Ahead instruments do that well.

If you like how SM brass feels under the fingers, and you like how the VHorn demos sound, I’d bet you’d be pretty happy with them 

I can roll out some amateur hour noodles like the brass ones at some point. It’s too bad @Rob doesnt have them!


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## Jrides (Dec 26, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Lol. I posted the two VHorn brass noodles the other day. Am I understanding that you think the SM Brass sounds more realistic and is easier to play or am I misunderstanding you?
> 
> All the VHorn stuff is easier to play than SM Brass because the sweet spot where it sounds good is very wide, but it’s very similar in how it reacts to expression and velocity. I think it’s also easier because it handles vibrato fairly well automagically for the most part.
> 
> ...


Of course I can’t say that SM brass is easier to play. I haven’t used the vhorns. But yes. I find SM brass pretty straightforward. Specifically the trumpet. It doesn’t take a tremendous amount of effort to get it sounding close to what I hear in my head. For the record though, what’s in my head isn’t very complicated lol.


Without a free trial demo of them… I will remain a skeptic for now.


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## Zanshin (Dec 26, 2022)

Jrides said:


> Of course I can’t say that SM brass is easier to play. I haven’t used the vhorns. But yes. I find SM brass pretty straightforward. Specifically the trumpet. It doesn’t take a tremendous amount of effort to get it sounding close to what I hear in my head. For the record though, what’s in my head isn’t very complicated lol.
> 
> 
> Without a free trial demo of them… I will remain a skeptic for now.


I just want to clarify that I’m not saying one is better than the other, I am happy to have both  

If SM made a sax set I’d buy it in an instant!


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## matt-darwin (Dec 26, 2022)

Jrides said:


> What this tells me… vhorns similar to SWAM needs some massaging 00B. It kind of sounds more like an accordion, without any cc work.
> That being said, I really like the arrangement. Nice work.
> 
> I think I’ll skip these until the time comes when I purchase and learn to play with a breath controller. I doubt that I would be able to get anything usable out of them, without one.


Yes, there are definitely some things that need more work, for instance I write a lot forte-piano hits and compared to the keyswitch method for SHP which can just be mapped with an expression map, the default dynamics applied by Dorico aren't really enough to get the effect. I'll take a look at some of those hits later to see what can be done via settings in Dorico, and also if I just manually draw it.

May well be that whilst composing I use SHP then switch over for mixdown of a finished arrangement.

I'll post some other arrangments soon as well, side by side with the SHP version, this one is fairly in your face, so might be interesting how a ballad comes out the box.


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## Jrides (Dec 27, 2022)

matt-darwin said:


> Yes, there are definitely some things that need more work, for instance I write a lot forte-piano hits and compared to the keyswitch method for SHP which can just be mapped with an expression map, the default dynamics applied by Dorico aren't really enough to get the effect. I'll take a look at some of those hits later to see what can be done via settings in Dorico, and also if I just manually draw it.
> 
> May well be that whilst composing I use SHP then switch over for mixdown of a finished arrangement.
> 
> I'll post some other arrangments soon as well, side by side with the SHP version, this one is fairly in your face, so might be interesting how a ballad comes out the box.


I’m actually glad you did something more high energy. Most of the user demos are laid back jazzy stuff. On the developers website as well. I’ll be curious to hear what the changes you make, sound like.


thanks for doing this. I think it’ll be helpful for those who use notation software.


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## matt-darwin (Dec 28, 2022)

Jrides said:


> I’m actually glad you did something more high energy. Most of the user demos are laid back jazzy stuff. On the developers website as well. I’ll be curious to hear what the changes you make, sound like.
> 
> 
> thanks for doing this. I think it’ll be helpful for those who use notation software.


OK so battling flu a little at the moment so not getting as much time as I'd like to work on this, but here is a fresh export following tweaking Dorico settings; essentially the amounts staccato, marcato change the length of notes and also the increase in amplitude from accents along with changing the expression map to cc1 _and _velocity. I also made sure all the legato passages have slurs (I get lazy in my parts some times there).

The forte pianos still aren't there (I'll try switching to sforzandos later, though I'd rarely write them in big band parts), but the hits are better.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 28, 2022)

matt-darwin said:


> OK so battling flu a little at the moment so not getting as much time as I'd like to work on this, but here is a fresh export following tweaking Dorico settings; essentially the amounts staccato, marcato change the length of notes and also the increase in amplitude from accents along with changing the expression map to cc1 _and _velocity. I also made sure all the legato passages have slurs (I get lazy in my parts some times there).
> 
> The forte pianos still aren't there (I'll try switching to sforzandos later, though I'd rarely write them in big band parts), but the hits are better.


I hope you feel better soon.

This is getting there. While some of the brass is still a little synthy, other parts are really convincing and musical sounding. The main piano part sounds a little too rigid, but the closing section with the different percussion sounds really good.


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## matt-darwin (Dec 28, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I hope you feel better soon.
> 
> This is getting there. While some of the brass is still a little synthy, other parts are really convincing and musical sounding. The main piano part sounds a little too rigid, but the closing section with the different percussion sounds really good.


Thanks!

Yeah there's always going to be elements of rigidity with this being direct playback from the notation tool I guess, and leaving any tweaks to the interpretation of music notation to expression maps etc. But it's getting there! Haven't looked at all at the piano yet in that regard.


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