# Best IR sets for orchestral music



## alligatorlizard (Jan 19, 2010)

Hi,

I'm looking to buy a set of IR's, and there's so many different ones out there I could do with some advice on the best ones available, specifically for orchestral music. I'm using a variety of sample libraries, QLSO, LASS, Symphobia etc.

I'm basically after one really good set of concert hall reverbs, to help give everything that big epic hollywood sound that everyone's after... I've downloaded various free ones, the M7 set from acousticas, various sets from signaltonoise.com - would people here say these are as good as any, or are there are much better ones out there? 

Currently, I've just been using the IR's that come with Cubase 5's Reverence (which is incidentally the plugin I will be loading the IR's in) - these are certainly good (austrian and dutch concert halls are current favourites), but I'm not convinced they're the best available. 

Any recommendations?


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## Justus (Jan 20, 2010)

You should take a look at the IRs at http://www.Samplicity.com.
From what I've heard those are one of the best IRs available.
Although these are not exactly IRs of Concert Halls but of output gear they can make your mix sound big! Try it (there are a few demo samples to try for yourself.)

Best,
Justus


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## Lex (Jan 20, 2010)

+1 
SAMPLICITY

aLex


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## hbuus (Jan 20, 2010)

alligatorlizard @ Wed Jan 20 said:


> I'm basically after one really good set of concert hall reverbs, to help give everything that big epic hollywood sound that everyone's after



alligatorlizard, I will also recommend the Samplicity IRs'es.

In the following link, try and scroll down to where it says Thomas J. Bergersen. Then listen to the dry version of his orchestral piece, and afterwards check out the version just below ("Version with Large Hall Extra ERs preset"):

http://www.samplicity.com/demos/

This could be exactly what you are after.

The Samplicity IRs'es are a varid bunch, meaning, you get all kinds of halls, rooms, chambers, churches, stages, FX-reverbs and whatever else is in there.
All is of the highest quality. You will not be disappointed, I think.

Best regards,
Henrik


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## bryla (Jan 20, 2010)

Funny thing is, that TJ's mock-up sounds killer even without reverb


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 20, 2010)

because there are lots of ERs in the library he uses here (Prague, I believe)


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## bryla (Jan 20, 2010)

What I meant: Some of us (myself very much included) use reverb to mask out programming inefficiencies....


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## Synesthesia (Jan 20, 2010)

+1 Samplicity!!


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## alligatorlizard (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks guys, I've not come across these samplecity ones before, am checking out the demos now and they do sound great - nice demo from Thomas Bergersen, and the "Glinka" demo switching the reverb on/off is very impressive. 

I've also had a recommendation for the acousticas IR sets, eg 480L - has anyone been able to compare these with the samplecity ones? eg acousticas 480L vs samplecity's L96 (presumably lexicon 960...)


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## alligatorlizard (Jan 20, 2010)

By the way, just realised that Emanuel who posted above is the guy behind the samplecity reverbs - very nice work! 

I also just read your opinions in another post on the free bricasti M7 impulses that acousticas gave away, and was glad to see you saying exactly what i'd thought when I'd checked them out - in fact it was after downloading these free M7 IR's and being very dissapointed in them I came on here to get some advice on finding decent ones!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 20, 2010)

Hehe, thanks!

I should use my normal complete name here 

I have checked a lot of other IRs and I must say that the Samplicity ones are just the cleanest and most accurate of them all. I spent a month on each lib, with sample accurate timing results and very very delicate post-processing.

I didn't like the Bricasti ones... they have bad SNRs and bad frequency spectra. The Samplicity IRs have SNRs ranging from -95 dB to -135 dB if I remember well (a result of using long sine sweeps).

Cheers,

Peter


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## Synesthesia (Jan 20, 2010)

The acousticas ones I have bought I've been very disappointed in, not true stereo and very noisy and dull..

just fwiw..!


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## alligatorlizard (Jan 20, 2010)

Yep, I have to say so far I'm much preferring the demos of the samplecity IR's - plus I've just downloaded the free "medium hall" IR from samplecity, applied it to LASS cellos, and my first impression is that it sounds far better than any of the IR's I've previously used!

One other question though before I make my purchase - as far as I'm aware Cubase's Reverence can't load true stereo IR's - it can only load one wav at a time. Can anyone confirm this, or am I missing something here? 

The samplecity L96 set does come with mono to stereo wavs as well though, right? Which are presumably the ones I'd load into Reverence?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 20, 2010)

With Steinberg REVerence you can load a True Stereo preset just as one file, using the Samplicity Quad files, now included in the current versions 1.3 on the site.


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## alligatorlizard (Jan 20, 2010)

Ah - excellent! I was wondering what the quad files were about.

Thanks for all the advice, expect a purchase very soon!


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## _taylor (Jan 20, 2010)

Samplicity IR's really do sound great. 

You could also check out Halls of Fame, there is a free version with a handful of great IR's- true stereo and stereo. 

http://www.soundsondemand.com/detail.asp/free_halls_of_fame-origami_edition/en (http://www.soundsondemand.com/detail.as ... edition/en)


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## alligatorlizard (Jan 20, 2010)

just noticed i've been typing "samplecity"! I know, it's actually "samplicity"... not had enough sleep...


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## c0mp0ser (Jan 20, 2010)

+1 for Samplicity

My current solution of the month is Todd-AO for giving things space, and the Samplicity L96 for tail.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 20, 2010)

_taylor @ Wed Jan 20 said:


> Samplicity IR's really do sound great.
> 
> You could also check out Halls of Fame, there is a free version with a handful of great IR's- true stereo and stereo.
> 
> http://www.soundsondemand.com/detail.asp/free_halls_of_fame-origami_edition/en (http://www.soundsondemand.com/detail.as ... edition/en)



I hope I am not being redundant now, but I have been kind of ripped-off by the German producer of Halls of Fame. He approached me to get advice for a new library and we talked for some hours on the phone. At that point he did not yet know how to make good IRs and had a hurry project for Best Service (Halls of Fame). So I talked about my techniques and even sent him copies of my libraries.

It turned out that he blatantly copied the EXACT folders structure and file names from one of my two libraries and EVEN copied parts of the texts from my PDF files.

I have then sent him and Klaus from Best Service an email asking them to stop with this infringement but they have until now never complied.

The Halls of Fame IRs are luckily a lot beyond my standards (phew, they were not illegal copies!). Bad editing, truncations, bad spectra, etc.

Just needed to get this clear once more. I will never share my "trade" secrets again!!!


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## _taylor (Jan 20, 2010)

Well, that's not a very good story.. Sorry to hear about your salty dealings.

Are there any other IR's you would recommend beyond yours? Excluding Altiverb.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 20, 2010)

The IRs from Ernest Cholakis sound very good - even though they often do not have a typical ER/Tail structure. Which still puzzles me.


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## ErnestCholakis (Jan 20, 2010)

Emanuel

At NAMM I released two new products *Full Orchestral Reverb & Timbral Impulses* (FORTI) and *Small Ensemble Reverb & Timbral Impulses* (SERTI) that do have separate ER and Tails (96KHz) and are all True Stereo. They work only with Vienna Suite. More information can be found at
http://www.numericalsound.com/FortiSerti.html or the VSL site

There are over 120 sound demos of both FORTI and SERTI at http://www.numericalsound.com/forti-ser ... demos.html

Both of these products also include Timbral Impulses at 44/48/96KHz


Ernest Cholakis
Numerical Sound/ProAudioVault
www.numericalsound.com
www.proaudiovault.com


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## SvK (Jan 20, 2010)

Ernest makes the BEST tail IRs out there. It's like a secret weapon.

SvK


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## alligatorlizard (Jan 26, 2010)

Just thought I'd say, after using these samplicity IR's (Lex 960) for a week or so now, I have to agree that they are excellent. A vast improvement on any IR's I've come across before! I'm not too technically-minded when it comes to how impulses work or are captured, but in aural terms, these simply seem to have more clarity, and size than any others I've tried. I'm essentially able to put things in bigger sounding spaces, without things getting muddy. To summarise, they _sound_ better... My search for great sounding reverb, at least for now, is over!

I'm still not exactly sure what true stereo is as opposed to stereo though... If anyone can explain this succinctly, or suggest a link to somewhere i can read up on this, it would be much appreciated!


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 26, 2010)

Which preset collection should I get from Samplicity? The L96 one or the combined T600 and L96?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 27, 2010)

alligatorlizard @ Wed Jan 27 said:


> Just thought I'd say, after using these samplicity IR's (Lex 960) for a week or so now, I have to agree that they are excellent. A vast improvement on any IR's I've come across before! I'm not too technically-minded when it comes to how impulses work or are captured, but in aural terms, these simply seem to have more clarity, and size than any others I've tried. I'm essentially able to put things in bigger sounding spaces, without things getting muddy. To summarise, they _sound_ better... My search for great sounding reverb, at least for now, is over!
> 
> I'm still not exactly sure what true stereo is as opposed to stereo though... If anyone can explain this succinctly, or suggest a link to somewhere i can read up on this, it would be much appreciated!



Thanks for your great feedback!

True Stereo means:
You have two ""space" images, one for sound coming from the left and one for sound from the right. Only in this situation you can send a stereo sound through the reverb bus (or insert). The word stereo can make this confusing. The stereo IR files are not really "stereo", they contain two different impulses - there is no crosstalk in convolution. Like I said earlier, the new quad files in Samplicity make it easier to load TS IRs as one. This is supported by Waves IR1, Vienna Suite and Steinbert REVerence.

When you only have 1 stereo IR file, you must sum the input signal (in a bus) to mono, otherwise lateral sounds will get a weird reverb at their location and not in the full stereo image. This is often called the mono-to-stereo approach, like how the older and cheapers reverb units worked.

Happy music making!


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## Mr. Anxiety (Jan 28, 2010)

+1 Samplicity. Great stuff


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## José Herring (Jan 28, 2010)

Without a doubt. Samplicity.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 28, 2010)

Can anyone shed some light on the question above I asked?


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 30, 2010)

Nvm, bought them. Best IR purchase I've made.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks!


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## José Herring (Jan 31, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Tue Jan 26 said:


> Which preset collection should I get from Samplicity? The L96 one or the combined T600 and L96?



I use the T600 and I think they are wonderful. I've been planning on getting the L96 but I'm leaning away from convolution these days and I'm really quite satisfied convo wise with the T600.

The demos I heard of the L96 where magnificent. Peter's IR's of hardware imo rival the real thing.

Oh btw Emmanual. I haven't forgotten about doing a demo for your sight. I've just been pretty busy with other work. I should get to it in about 2 weeks.

best,

Jose


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## re-peat (Jan 31, 2010)

A demo for his _sight_?


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## José Herring (Jan 31, 2010)

I mean *site as in website. Sorry quick typing.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks Jose!

hope you are doing well!

To make some things clear: 
I don't regard myself as an IR developer - I made these libs a few years ago and went for the best quality I could get after reading a lot of scientific papers and the maths behind IRs (I have a masters in data analysis and stats). And I also wanted to have them for myself!

But I feel that there is no real market for IRs, unless I could go into famous venues... and do the same thing that Audioease is already doing. I would love to experiment with it though, because I have some seriously cool, new ideas for it - but I just don't have the funds for it...

And I am also working on a big community site for "Audio Help" which might get me out of freelance IT works...


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 31, 2010)

Piet: soms is ons Engels beter dan van al die klooio's die het van hun ouders hadden moeten leren


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## José Herring (Jan 31, 2010)

Uw Engels is zeker beter dan mijn Nederlands. Misschien als ik typ in het rood wat ik kon doen beter.


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## synergy543 (Jan 31, 2010)

Jose, je Nederlands is heel goed overweegt u bent vloeiend in alle 39 google languges! Je hoeft alleen een Mac te corrigeren uw Engels.


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## alligatorlizard (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks for the True Stereo explanation Emanuel, useful info. I use to have a PCM70 (which is a mono to stereo unit) and was always slightly uncomfortable with sending a stereo signal to it (though of course it still sounded pretty good!). I guess, in a nutshell (and for the non technically minded...) you could say that true stereo IR's place the reverb more accurately in the mix with respect to the original sound?


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## Udo (Feb 5, 2010)

Emanuel @ Mon Feb 01 said:


> Piet: soms is ons Engels beter dan van al die klooio's die het van hun ouders hadden moeten leren



English is not a language, but a speech impediment - just look at the spelling in relation to the pronunciation (and the relatively small number of native English speakers who really know their own language well) :wink: 

Engels is geen taal maar spraakgebrek - kijk maar naar de spelling in relatie tot de uitspraak (en naar het relatief kleine aantal mensen dat hun Engelse moedertaal echt goed kennen) :wink: Het wordt wel steeds moeilijker me in het Nederlands uit te drukken - was dat goed Nederlands?


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## Hal (Feb 5, 2010)

bryla @ Wed Jan 20 said:


> Funny thing is, that TJ's mock-up sounds killer even without reverb



Waw those strings ! :shock:


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## jsaras (Feb 15, 2010)

Hi Peter,

From what I've been able to gather from the forum it seems that your impulses are best suited for reverb tails and you use TrueVerb for the early reflections. Can you suggest some early reflection settings for each section of the orchestra? Would you apply the early reflections as an insert (on submixes) or as a send?

How would you then apply the tail? As an insert on the master? How much predelay?

I've read several books on this subject as well as several threads here, but there is no clear methodolgy to be found.


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## PasiP (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm looking for impulse responses that I can put into my Vienna Suite Convolution reverb. 

I have Symphobia stage samples in my template and I was wondering what IR would give them a good space.. L96 perhaps with the Large Hall?

Or should I use the Close samples for Symphobia and then add some reverb?

Hints and tips are welcomed.


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## EnTaroAdun (Mar 5, 2010)

Have you already tried the 3 additional IR sets from VSL?
http://vsl.co.at/en/211/497/1686/1673/115.htm


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Mar 5, 2010)

For Symphobia I would use a hall reverb with reduced early reflections, so with a drawn curve for the first 150 msec, otherwise you would get too much ERs and thus muddiness. But of course your ears should decide.

jsaras: personally I use my IRs in the way I described here, but that is because I have wet samples and I a match my dry instruments by adding ERs with TrueVerb instances.

My IRs are very good captures of the original devices so there is nothing 'wrong' with there own ER's.


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## PasiP (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks for the answer Peter. 

Does L96 collection have the Quad-files you mentioned earlier?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Mar 5, 2010)

Yep


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## PasiP (Mar 5, 2010)

Good. I'll be in touch soon. 8)


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## EnTaroAdun (Mar 5, 2010)

PasiP @ 2010-03-05 said:


> No I haven't. They are a bit pricy for my budget so I left them out..


Then you should probably first download some free ones:

http://www.rhythminmind.net/presetblog/category/samples/impulse-sets/ (http://www.rhythminmind.net/presetblog/ ... ulse-sets/)
and
http://www.acousticas.net/World/IRs/AcousticasM7.zip


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