# Logic Pro X 10.4 released



## WindcryMusic

Well, well, that was quick after 10.3.3. And what have we here, in the release notes ... "A new universal design for controlling articulations provides a consistent interface for Logic and third-party instruments." Hmm? This item has me interested.


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## jonathanwright

Ooh, is ‘Smart Tempo’ meant to do what I think it is? (Fit non Apple loops to tempo automatically).

UPDATE: It appears so, plus preview audio at the project tempo and favourite locations in the file browser.


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## mac

The new articulation system sounds interesting!


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## Alex Fraser

Oo, lots of new toys. New vintage EQ, 'verbs. More alchemy presets. More drummers and sounds.
Apple keeps giving. Pity I can't access the Apple site..


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## jonathanwright

_There is now a key command to open the Instrument plug-in for the currently focused track._
Woohoo!


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## John Busby

full release notes:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718


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## Jeremy Spencer

jonathanwright said:


> Ooh, is ‘Smart Tempo’ meant to do what I think it is? (Fit non Apple loops to tempo automatically).
> 
> UPDATE: It appears so, plus preview audio at the project tempo and favourite locations in the file browser.



The release notes say "Add any audio file and have it automatically conform to the project tempo". This is wonderful!!


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## Nmargiotta

Incredible update. So MANY good features. So MANY.


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## Alex Fraser

Plug-ins: Plug-in windows offer a new Multilink mode that updates open plug-in windows per insert slot as channel strips are selected.
<Does a dance around studio.>


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## John Busby

You can now undo mixer and plug-in actions.
YES! to the mixer un-dos 

Record audio without using a click or drag in an audio file and have the performance define your project tempo.
i really like the sound of this!

Smart Controls and Instrument plug-ins now offer a key switch view for Articulation IDs.
interesting...

There is now an option to have Logic automatically set a new color for each newly created audio, software instrument, or external MIDI track.
Finally!


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## synthpunk

Thank you Logic Team.


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## Jeremy Spencer

johnbusbymusic said:


> There is now an option to have Logic automatically set a new color for each newly created audio, software instrument, or external MIDI track.
> Finally!



As minor as this is, I've been wishing for this (Cubase has this feature). I'm tired of the same old green tracks!

Also, the new reverb designs sound cool.


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## John Busby

does anybody use Voice over in Logic? if so, how does it affect your workflow?
reason i ask is because this update really shed some love to the voice over features


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Wowza! Fun times ahead!


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## WindcryMusic

Holy cow. I don't have Cubase, but I know its Expression Maps are considered to be the best method for controlling articulations, and I just watched a video on YT about how they work to familiarize myself. Then I started exploring the Articulation Set item in the Track Inspector in LPX 10.4 ... and as far as I can tell, it is pretty much the same thing. I just tried setting up a quick one for a few articulations of the Albion One strings, and it works gangbusters. Doors, blown open! I suspect I'll be making articulation sets all night.


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## khollister

Wow! - maybe I am going back to Logic (if Garritan would get the lead out on fixing the CFX AU). Updating now from App Store


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## synthpunk

Remind me please, does naming current Logic version to something like LX10.3.3 allow the new update to be downloaded separately or will it still overwrite the current version ? Tx


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## John Busby

oh the little things....

Using Option rubberband to zoom in to a specific area in the Piano Roll no longer sometimes scrolls the view to selected notes instead.
i can't tell you how many times this made me red in the face while using the magic mouse
Apple....thank you!


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## Alex Fraser

synthpunk said:


> Remind me please, does naming current Logic version to something like LX10.3.3 allow the new update to be downloaded separately or will it still overwrite the current version ? Tx


There's some official advice along these lines, though not sure if exactly what you need.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202992


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## jonathanwright

WindcryMusic said:


> Holy cow. I don't have Cubase, but I know its Expression Maps are considered to be the best method for controlling articulations, and I just watched a video on YT about how they work to familiarize myself. Then I started exploring the Articulation Set item in the Track Inspector in LPX 10.4 ... and as far as I can tell, it is pretty much the same thing. I just tried setting up a quick one for a few articulations of the Albion One strings, and it works gangbusters. Doors, blown open! I suspect I'll be making articulation sets all night.



So you can easily create your own articulation maps?

Does it work for switch via MIDI channel as well as traditional keyswitches?


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## resound

Hmmm Logic update is not showing up in the App Store for me...


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## synthpunk

Thank you Alex, just in case the bugs come out in 10.4 



Alex Fraser said:


> There's some official advice along these lines, though not sure if exactly what you need.
> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202992


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## Saxer

synthpunk said:


> Remind me please, does naming current Logic version to something like LX10.3.3 allow the new update to be downloaded separately or will it still overwrite the current version ? Tx


If you rename it it will not be recognized to be updated. Simplest way: zip your current Logic Pro X. The zip-file will be your safety copy.


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## WindcryMusic

jonathanwright said:


> So you can easily create your own articulation maps?
> 
> Does it work for switch via MIDI channel as well as traditional keyswitches?



That I'm not sure about. There are options for setting a MIDI channel on the output, but I'm not sure if that actually changes what a note is sent on, or just sets the channel that the selector is sent on. But the selector does have a "-" option, i.e., don't send anything, so it might do what you are asking about. I won't have much time to experiment with this until later on today ... but oh, will it be difficult to wait.


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## khollister

Holy S**t! - Garritan CFX piano now passes AU validation! So much for Apple slow-rolling the pro apps. I'm really feeling good about my extravagant iMac Pro purchase last week


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## resound

It appears you need Sierra to update. I am still on El Capitan. Hmmmm.........


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## synthpunk

1) Logged in to app store with same account you purchased Logic on ?

2) What O.S. are you on ? Anyone catch what the o.s. requirement is for 10.4 ? (Update you must have Sierra 10.12.6 minimum for this update per below)



resound said:


> Hmmm Logic update is not showing up in the App Store for me...


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## Saxer

synthpunk said:


> Anyone catch what the o.s. requirement is for 10.4 ?


10.12.6 or higher


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## resound

synthpunk said:


> Logged in to app store with same account you purchased Logic on ?
> 
> What O.S. are you on ? Anyone catch what the o.s. requirement is for 10.4 ?


You need Sierra. I've got El Capitan.


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## tweetertech

Wow. Beautiful!


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## Puzzlefactory

Love the look of this update. Nice to see camelphat brought back to life and interested in the new reverb too (although if they had done it a week earlier I may not have bought Valhalla room).

I know it’s early days, but are there any tutorials out yet about using the new articulation maps in Logic? 

I’ve never teally had any experience with them...


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## resound

Bummer :( I'd really love to install this update but I am stuck on El Capitan. My system doesn't support Sierra.


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## WindcryMusic

jonathanwright said:


> So you can easily create your own articulation maps?
> 
> Does it work for switch via MIDI channel as well as traditional keyswitches?



Update: I couldn't wait, so I took part of my lunch hour to try this. Yep, you can indeed route notes to different MIDI channels. I bound an articulation to a brass instrument in the middle of my string line, loaded some brass as channel 2 in Kontakt, and it notches right in there as if it is all a single instrument. Very nice!

I watched one of the Cubase expression map videos in more detail, and the one thing there I that I don't see in 10.4 is an actual "articulation lane" in the Piano Roll or MIDI/Automation pane to actually click on articulations for individual notes. Instead, you can select the notes you want to change the articulation of and then select the articulation from a drop list in the Inspector pane for the Piano Roll. For my needs I think that's pretty much just as effective, because I'm not sure how well the Cubase articulation lane works with overlapping notes. And of course in the Event List view you can see the articulation on each individual note all at once (now shown as an actual articulation name that you've assigned, rather than just a number).

I actually feel bad for the makers of ArtzID, ArtConductor, etc., who've made such efforts to bridge the gap, but for my needs this looks to be just too good.


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## mc_deli

Quite handy that the richest company in the world just handed out this amazing update for free.


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## Manfoman

WindcryMusic said:


> I actually feel bad for the makers of ArtzID, ArtConductor, etc., who've made such efforts to bridge the gap, but for my needs this looks to be just too good.



Hm...I purchased ARTzID yesterday and am trying to get it work...


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## WindcryMusic

Manfoman said:


> Hm...I purchased ARTzID yesterday and am trying to get it work...



I'd purchased ArtConductor a month or so back when it was on sale, expecting to use it for setting up templates this spring. Now it looks like that's money I didn't need to spend ... although I don't begrudge spending it, since the guy did do the work of creating a solution for this problem. And his solution still does have the advantage of actually showing an automation lane containing the articulations, which 10.4 doesn't (you CAN choose to color the individual notes by articulation though, at least). But there are too many other things where this built-in solution is just knocking my socks off ... I can't see myself using anything else right now.


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## khollister

I can live without the automation lane in exchange for not having to hack around with scripter & the logic environment. Score one for the Big A!


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## synthpunk

Sorry to hear that, hopefully you can get a machine or find a hack that will run Sierra soon.



resound said:


> Bummer :( I'd really love to install this update but I am stuck on El Capitan. My system doesn't support Sierra.


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## KMA

Holy crap, ChromaVerb is lovely!


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## Kent

I’m just floored. Christmas came late this year! (Or really really early)


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## Kent

KMA said:


> Holy crap, ChromaVerb is lovely!


How so?


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## khollister

KMA said:


> Holy crap, ChromaVerb is lovely!



and vintage EQ's and StepFX and ...

Apple really dropped the hammer on this update.


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## babylonwaves

WindcryMusic said:


> I'd purchased ArtConductor a month or so back when it was on sale, expecting to use it for setting up templates this spring. Now it looks like that's money I didn't need to spend ...


wait and see ...


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## khollister

babylonwaves said:


> wait and see ...



I'm hoping all of these guys will shift to doing added value features on top of the 10.4 articulation management.


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## MarcelM

fantastic update.

chroma is really really great, and i also love the rest ofcourse. a pity that you dont see articulation changes in piano roll, but probably we will get this in the future.

its stunning that apple rolls out updates like this for free. love it!


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## synthpunk

My only disappointed was no EXS24 mkII. Next please!!!!

Apple doesn't care about us.............. Just kidding!


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## resound

synthpunk said:


> Sorry to hear that, hopefully you can get a machine or find a hack that will run Sierra soon.


Thanks, yea I found a hack for older systems but I'm not sure if it is worth the risk/hassle. My Mac Pro is an early 2009. It's got a lot of power seems like it should be able to handle anything.


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## KMA

kmaster said:


> How so?



Well, ChromaVerb is producing realistic-sounding halls as well as crazy, modulated spaces with ease. As an algorithmic verb, it's leagues beyond Logic's other contenders (EnVerb, Silver).

In fact, it's reminding me of Valhalla, but I don't want to speak too soon.


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## Christof

resound said:


> You need Sierra. I've got El Capitan.


The App store says you need minimum OS X 10.11.So it runs under Capitan.


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## Vik

Heroix said:


> a pity that you dont see articulation changes in piano roll, but probably we will get this in the future.


Articulation-IDs in Logic is stored on a per note basis, which is brilliant. So 10.4 can have several notes, at the same time, with different articulations. This means that some thinking is needed in order to find out how to display this in the piano roll. They can't use the same method Cubase uses.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Yet another amazing update from the company that only cares about iPhone users, no professional users, and is just about to kill Logic.


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## resound

Christof said:


> The App store says you need minimum OS X 10.11.So it runs under Capitan.


App Store is incorrect.

https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=135252&start=20


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## samphony

jonathanwright said:


> So you can easily create your own articulation maps?
> 
> Does it work for switch via MIDI channel as well as traditional keyswitches?


It’s even better than this. You can create momentary triggers which are useful for do its and other typical momentary articulations. Take a look at the new brass and string instruments. 

But yes you can also use it for midi channels.


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## KV626

Christof said:


> The App store says you need minimum OS X 10.11.So it runs under Capitan.



Apparently no. You need Sierra for 10.4






The 10.11 mention is probably for "Logic Pro X" regardless of which version - if you run an OS older than Sierra, the App Store will let you download the appropriate version for your OS, but not 10.4


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## samphony

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Yet another amazing update from the company that only cares about iPhone users, no professional users, and is just about to kill Logic.


Killing logic is postponed until Logic 16.9


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## MarcelM

Vik said:


> Articulation-IDs in Logic is stored on a per note basis, which is brilliant. So 10.4 can have several notes, at the same time, with different articulations. This means that some thinking is needed in order to find out how to display this in the piano roll. They can't use the same method Cubase uses.



yah, i get it. but it wouldnt be hard to implement some color coding or something to see which note plays which articulation.

whatever, iam very pleased.


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## Vik

That could just be a glitch/something which is ported over from the 10.3 info by a mistake.


samphony said:


> do its


Auto-correction at work? 

Here's some info on the ARA support:
http://www.celemony.com/en/pm-logic-ara2


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## Soundhound

Looking gift horse directly in the mouth: Are there now multiple CC lanes in the piano roll?


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## Vik

Heroix said:


> yah, i get it. but it wouldnt be hard to implement some color coding or something to see which note plays which articulation.
> 
> whatever, iam very pleased.


Sure... and colour coding may be in there already: "Note colors in the Piano Roll can now be set by Articulation."
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718


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## WindcryMusic

Vik said:


> Articulation-IDs in Logic is stored on a per note basis, which is brilliant. So 10.4 can have several notes, at the same time, with different articulations. This means that some thinking is needed in order to find out how to display this in the piano roll. They can't use the same method Cubase uses.



This moved me to actually test doing this in 10.4, again with Albion One. And sure enough, it does work as advertised. Four different notes, even when all quantized to play on the same exact tick, with four different string articulations, and each of them sounds with the specified artic. It's kind of magical. My next orchestral template is going to rock.


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## WindcryMusic

Heroix said:


> yah, i get it. but it wouldnt be hard to implement some color coding or something to see which note plays which articulation.
> 
> whatever, iam very pleased.



See one of my posts from earlier in this thread. Color-coding of articulations is indeed present as an option in the 10.4 Piano Roll.


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## samphony

Vik said:


> That could just be a glitch/something which is ported over from the 10.3 info by a mistake.
> 
> Auto-correction at work?
> 
> Here's some info on the ARA support:
> http://www.celemony.com/en/pm-logic-ara2



Yes or maybe just so everyone can have a got Love (you see it happened again)


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## MarcelM

Vik said:


> Sure... and colour coding may be in there already: "Note colors in the Piano Roll can now be set by Articulation."
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718



goddamn i missed that! just checked and it works... thx for the headsup!


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## khollister

The new Studio Strings and Horns aren't half bad either. And Chroma is very usable - surprisingly good for a "throw it in for free with the DAW"


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## TGV

Haven't had the opportunity to go through everything, but the Studio Strings have quite a few articulations, and just in case you'd overlook it: there's a small triangle in the bottom left corner which opens a panel that sets controller assignments and such.

Minor issue: Spitfire Strings doesn't seem to pick up UACC on the note that plays immediately. So at least for some libs, you've got to make sure there is a bit of time before the first note (that probably includes bouncing).


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## synthpunk

My Imac Pro layaway should be finished by then.

@Ashermusic Jay, please take the Logic team out for pancakes at iHop this weekend. 




samphony said:


> Killing logic is postponed until Logic 16.9


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## LinusW

ChromaVerb, retina-GUI for Space Designer, ARA 2 support... This is awesome!


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## Vik

WindcryMusic said:


> This moved me to actually test doing this in 10.4, again with Albion One. And sure enough, it does work as advertised. Four different notes, even when all quantized to play on the same exact tick, with four different string articulations, and each of them sounds with the specified artic. It's kind of magical. My next orchestral template is going to rock.


This means, I guess, that one could compose a string quartet or a symphonic string arrangement inside a single (piano clef based) track, with each of the MIDI channels having different instruments and with separate articulation control for each of the instruments.


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## John Busby

Vik said:


> This means, I guess, that one could compose a string quartet or a symphonic string arrangement inside a single (piano clef based) track, with each of the MIDI channels having different instruments and with separate articulation control for each of the instruments.


i want a video explaining in depth the new piano roll articulation features...
are there any available yet?


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## WindcryMusic

Soundhound said:


> Looking gift horse directly in the mouth: Are there now multiple CC lanes in the piano roll?



Not that I can tell, but there are a few other nice improvements in the Piano Roll. E.g., now you can flip between viewing Track or Region automation directly in the Piano Roll automation pane, and see/edit such things as track volume automation right there. You can also more easily and quickly select any specific CC# to edit from a popup submenu, rather than needing to pop up a dialog in which to select the CC# ... very handy for my needs.


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## Alex Fraser

They're running out of things to put in Logic 11..


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## jonathanwright

WindcryMusic said:


> Not that I can tell, but there are a few other nice improvements in the Piano Roll. E.g., now you can flip between viewing Track or Region automation directly in the Piano Roll automation pane, and see/edit such things as track volume automation right there. You can also more easily and quickly select any specific CC# to edit from a popup submenu, rather than needing to pop up a dialog in which to select the CC# ... very handy for my needs.



Thanks for reporting on the articulation features, they sound awesome!


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## synthpunk

.....EXS......II ....... just sayin' 



Alex Fraser said:


> They're running out of things to put in Logic 11..


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## synthpunk

3G+ of new content btw


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## samphony

Guys and girls you can also

- assign all 32 available hide groups to key commands and logic remote. Meaning you can finally go beyond the former available 9 hide groups. This is very handy if you want to create you show only Strings. Or show only instrument tracks etc.

- select tracks based on type. Meaning you can select all instrument tracks or select all summing stacks. Imagine a macro you can create with meta grid to export stems etc.

- open/close all available midi fix/Audio fx plugin slots via key command
- open/close instrument plugin via key command
- engage collapse mode in piano roll via key command
- assign selected tracks to groups
- see the midi notes behind the automation in the piano roll!!!
- and many more

The key command window got a great overhaul as well so it is easier to filter unused key commands or filter by modifier.

The groups window got overhauled as well.

Also the plugin GUI opens at the correct monitor in a multi monitor setup.
I wished that plugins will open centered but I’m sure we’ll get there one day.

Oh hurry and download logic tonight because Apple will kill logic very soon


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## tweetertech

synthpunk said:


> .....EXS......II ....... just sayin'


EXS 11


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## Alex Fraser

So, the new instruments have legato transitions. And are in exs format. Food for thought...


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## samphony

And maybe some people will like this


There is now an option to switch the first automation lane in a track to show the last clicked control.
Meaning whatever parameter you click it will instantly show in the automation lane!


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## khollister

This is crazy - what got into Apple? They feel guilty and told the Logic team to just go nuts ...? I have to leave soon to go meet some ex-work guys for beers and I want to play with LPX 10.4 instead!


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## ctsai89

is the maximum # of audio tracks still 255? 

I'm running out.... tell me I'm doing something wrong but I'm not, and I'm very against the work arounds for it as I would have to separate the project into 2 projects or bounce all audio into 1 track and then not be able to edit later. I produce pretty complex EDM that requires lots of different FX's I have more than 200 different FX sounds some are glitchy as well.


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## khollister

ctsai89 said:


> is the maximum # of audio tracks still 255?
> 
> I'm running out.... tell me I'm doing something wrong but I'm not, and I'm very against the work arounds for it as I would have to separate the project into 2 projects or bounce all audio into 1 track and then not be able to edit later. I produce pretty complex EDM that requires lots of different FX's I have more than 200 different FX sounds some are glitchy as well.



Looks like it - tried to create a new project with 275 tracks and only got 256


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## Vik

johnbusbymusic said:


> are there any available yet?


Found something here:
https://www.groove3.com/tutorials/Logic-Pro-X-10.4-Update-Explained


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## WindcryMusic

khollister said:


> This is crazy - what got into Apple? They feel guilty and told the Logic team to just go nuts ...? I have to leave soon to go meet some ex-work guys for beers and I want to play with LPX 10.4 instead!



Hehe. One thing seems more likely than ever ... one or more people from that team have probably been lurking around here and reading what we have been struggling with in LPX. I believe this has been stated by people "in the know" already, but this update sort of bears that out, I think. I for one didn't really expect to ever see an articulation solution like this in LPX, and I'm kind of shell-shocked.


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## synthpunk

New Plugins...

The Vintage EQ Collection sounds really, really good! This coming form a UAD/UBK guy!

Sub Bass sounds right in the DBX vibe

Nice clean tails in Chromaverb

Pitch Correction seems very good if your into that.

Fat FX is pretty sick, definitely Camelphat/Crusher and beyond!


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## khollister

synthpunk said:


> The Vintage EQ Collection sounds really, really good! This coming form a UAD/UBK guy!
> 
> Sub Bass sound right on the DBX vibe
> 
> Nice clean tails in Chromaverb
> 
> and Pitch Correction seems very good if your into that.



"This is your development team on drugs"


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## ctsai89

khollister said:


> Looks like it - tried to create a new project with 275 tracks and only got 256



..dammit thanks for checking


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## Sami

This articulation stuff is fantastic. Thank you Logic team!


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## mc_deli

There is no longer a large delay and spinning wait cursor when moving a large selection of short regions in a project.
Editing within a large Logic session no longer sometimes becomes sluggish.
If that second one is true that would be also be insane... I'll believe it when I see it, as surely it will still be performance-capability-dependent


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## toddkedwards

I converted to Cubase over a year ago from Logic. Can you disable tracks yet in Logic (I know about freeze, not the same)? If Apple adds this, I might jump back to using Logic again. 

I'm really interested in founding and trying out the articulations and how they work in Logic compared to Cubase.


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## Soundhound

Thanks, that sounds like stuff that is definitely going to be useful, looking forward to trying it all out.

CC lanes, someday you will be mine. 




WindcryMusic said:


> Not that I can tell, but there are a few other nice improvements in the Piano Roll. E.g., now you can flip between viewing Track or Region automation directly in the Piano Roll automation pane, and see/edit such things as track volume automation right there. You can also more easily and quickly select any specific CC# to edit from a popup submenu, rather than needing to pop up a dialog in which to select the CC# ... very handy for my needs.


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## WindcryMusic

toddkedwards said:


> I converted to Cubase over a year ago from Logic. Can you disable tracks yet in Logic (I know about freeze, not the same)? If Apple adds this, I might jump back to using Logic again.
> 
> I'm really interested in founding and trying out the articulations and how they work in Logic compared to Cubase.



I just tested, and unfortunately Logic still doesn't have a way to fully disable MIDI tracks (i.e., unloading the instruments and samples). The On/Off button continues to act as a full mute and doesn't spend any CPU on the track if it is "disabled", but the instruments and samples are still loaded on such tracks. Maybe that's for 10.5.


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## toddkedwards

WindcryMusic said:


> I just tested, and unfortunately Logic still doesn't have a way to fully disable MIDI tracks (i.e., unloading the instruments and samples). The On/Off button continues to act as a full mute and doesn't spend any CPU on the track if it is "disabled", but the instruments and samples are still loaded on such tracks. Maybe that's for 10.5.


Bummer. I'll still take a look at the new features. 

Thanks for checking.


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## ptram

babylonwaves said:


> wait and see ...


Maps! We need maps!


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## samphony

ctsai89 said:


> is the maximum # of audio tracks still 255?



Yes but fingers crossed that will be tackled next! I am begging for years to at least quadruple the amount possible.


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## ctsai89

samphony said:


> Yes but fingers crossed that will be tackled next! I am begging for years to at least quadruple the amount possible.



Thank you! I will contact apple as well.

it should be an infinite amount possible. 

Why do we have to compromise our creative moments thinking that there is going to be barriers?


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## mac

Is there any improvement in the live single core spiking issue?


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## John Busby

mac said:


> Is there any improvement in the live single core spiking issue?


I didn't see anything concerning cpu usage improvements


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## Jeremy Spencer

ctsai89 said:


> Thank you! I will contact apple as well.
> 
> it should be an infinite amount possible.
> 
> Why do we have to compromise our creative moments thinking that there is going to be barriers?



Enlighten me (just for my knowledge), why you need 256 Aux tracks? I've never had a use for them....maybe I'm, missing out!


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## mac

johnbusbymusic said:


> I didn't see anything concerning cpu usage improvements



Damn, I'd take that over all else. Still, hell of an update.


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## John Busby

mac said:


> Damn, I'd take that over all else. Still, hell of an update.


Couldn't agree with you more


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## Garry

Wow, VintageEQ and Chromeverb is really impressive, and the articulations work great - much improved workflow. 

The new samples (such as Studio Horns and Studio Strings) probably won't be of much interest to those on this forum, many of whom will likely have extensive specialised sample libraries, but it definitely raises the bar for entry level.


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## ctsai89

Wolfie2112 said:


> Enlighten me (just for my knowledge), why you need 256 Aux tracks? I've never had a use for them....maybe I'm, missing out!





this kind of music. I'm almost done working on a track that supposedly sound similar to that. Will send you it once I have it mastered or signed. 

But listen to the # sounds there are. Literally hundreds going on. And it's not like we could put effects and EQ or volume levels on an audio file separately. It has to be in different tracks


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## dcoscina

I want to try it but I'm still on Sierra and I'm not sure I want to chance upgrading to High Sierra for Logic X since I'm primarily a Cubase 9 guy and I've read horror stories about High Sierra and Steinberg stuff


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## WindcryMusic

dcoscina said:


> I want to try it but I'm still on Sierra and I'm not sure I want to chance upgrading to High Sierra for Logic X since I'm primarily a Cubase 9 guy and I've read horror stories about High Sierra and Steinberg stuff



Sierra is sufficient for Logic Pro X 10.4. (That's what I'm running, with no intentions of going to High Sierra anytime soon.)


----------



## babylonwaves

here's a teaser of what's coming very soon ...


----------



## samphony

ctsai89 said:


> it should be an infinite amount possible.


Logically there is no infinity so if you suggest something you need to use numbers.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

babylonwaves said:


> here's a teaser of what's coming very soon ...



Now, this is getting interesting...


----------



## ctsai89

samphony said:


> Logically there is no infinity so if you suggest something you need to use numbers. ;-(




8 turned side ways or 45 degrees. lol. infinite is as much a number as 0 is. Learned that more than a decade ago in calculus!


----------



## dcoscina

WindcryMusic said:


> Sierra is sufficient for Logic Pro X 10.4. (That's what I'm running, with no intentions of going to High Sierra anytime soon.)


weird. It won't download for me. I'm on Logic X 10.3


----------



## Alex Fraser

Well. The Logic team have destroyed any chance I had of an early night.
This update is phenomenal. Much kudos to the Logic devs.
The articulation system is a game changer. I spent a little while messing with it and got Albion ONE to play ball after a spot of head scratching. Looking forward to the manual!

Wow. Just wow.


----------



## stonzthro

babylonwaves said:


> here's a teaser of what's coming very soon ...




Hmm - how soon, would you say...?


----------



## George Bellas

How does the new Articulation system in Logic 10.4 work? Does it work with any library?


----------



## dcoscina

Quick question- seems like I waited too long to upgrade to Sierra (10.12) as I'm still on El Capitan and I only have the option to upgrade to High Sierra- yeah, I don't wanna do that. Any suggestions? I know this is an offshoot to the topic...Thanks. Only el Cap and before shows up in my App Store


----------



## WindcryMusic

dcoscina said:


> Quick question- seems like I waited too long to upgrade to Sierra (10.12) as I'm still on El Capitan and I only have the option to upgrade to High Sierra- yeah, I don't wanna do that. Any suggestions? I know this is an offshoot to the topic...Thanks. Only el Cap and before shows up in my App Store



Oh ... that's why. I don't know this from personal experience, but I've seen others say that if you don't click on a Mac OS X version to at least mark it as "purchased" before it is replaced, you'll never be able to download it. They recommend "purchasing" a version you don't plan to install and then interrupting the installation in some way (I'm not sure exactly how). It doesn't matter to you at this point since the ship has sailed on you doing that with Sierra. (Some have said there are other ways to get hold of Sierra ... I wouldn't know about that, but perhaps someone will give you some ideas.)

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news. Hope you get it sorted (or decide to risk High Sierra for the sake of 10.4).


----------



## Alex Fraser

George Bellas said:


> How does the new Articulation system in Logic 10.4 work? Does it work with any library?


It should work with any third party libraries - you can create your own articulation maps and define your own switching methods.


----------



## mr336

dcoscina said:


> Quick question- seems like I waited too long to upgrade to Sierra (10.12) as I'm still on El Capitan and I only have the option to upgrade to High Sierra- yeah, I don't wanna do that. Any suggestions? I know this is an offshoot to the topic...Thanks. Only el Cap and before shows up in my App Store




Heres a link to get to Sierra. Scroll down a little, hit the Sierra link and it should open the App Store with Sierra ready to download. I just did this and it's downloading so it does work.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208202


----------



## dcoscina

mr336 said:


> Heres a link to get to Sierra. Scroll down a little, hit the Sierra link and it should open the App Store with Sierra ready to download. I just did this and it's downloading so it does work.
> 
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208202


Awesome! Thanks so much. Really appreciate it!


----------



## Soundhound

Smart tempo doesn't work with midi input does it? Only audio?


----------



## SkyWorker

resound said:


> Thanks, yea I found a hack for older systems but I'm not sure if it is worth the risk/hassle. My Mac Pro is an early 2009. It's got a lot of power seems like it should be able to handle anything.



I flashed my 4.1 (2009) Mac Pro to a 5.1 Mac Pro, the procedure is easy and it is really worth it. This will give you access to Sierra/High Sierra. And you still can go backward to 4.1 if needed.


----------



## ptram

Can someone check this for me? Are articulation IDs matching symbols in the score? Or, are still notation symbols and MIDI articulations traveling on different lanes?

Paolo


----------



## WindcryMusic

ptram said:


> Can someone check this for me? Are articulation IDs matching symbols in the score? Or, are still notation symbols and MIDI articulations traveling on different lanes?



Part of the definition of articulations in the articulation sets is the corresponding notation symbol that you wish to be used in the score, and when I took a peek at the Score view for my test track, the symbols I'd selected did appear on the corresponding notes. I don't really use the Score view much so I can't say how well this works or how much of the ground it covers, but at least they do seem to be connected.


----------



## anp27

khollister said:


> (if Garritan would get the lead out on fixing the CFX AU).



What issue are you having with Garritan and Logic? My GPO5 and IO are working perfectly.


----------



## khollister

anp27 said:


> What issue are you having with Garritan and Logic? My GPO5 and IO are working perfectly.



CFX Piano AU wouldn't validate with 10.3.3. I went in Plug In Manager on 10.4 and rescanned it and it is now working fine.


----------



## anp27

khollister said:


> CFX Piano AU wouldn't validate with 10.3.3. I went in Plug In Manager on 10.4 and rescanned it and it is now working fine.



Oh ok. Yeah, it's a HS thing. A simple restart fixes the problem when Logic doesn't "see" newly installed plugins.


----------



## Geoff Grace

I want to know how well the new Smart Tempo feature can map the tempo to a rubato piano performance.

I'm primarily a Pro Tools user and haven't upgraded Logic Pro since version 9. If Smart Tempo lives up to it's billing, I may finally buy version 10.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## khollister

anp27 said:


> Oh ok. Yeah, it's a HS thing. A simple restart fixes the problem when Logic doesn't "see" newly installed plugins.



Different problem. CFX failed validation with 10.3.3 no matter how many times I restarted. Sailed through first time with 10.4


----------



## anp27

khollister said:


> Different problem. CFX failed validation with 10.3.3 no matter how many times I restarted. Sailed through first time with 10.4



Ah ok, then it was definitely a Logic then. Glad to hear that all is well now


----------



## rconn

Does anyone have an issue with Logic not selecting the right articulation when the note begins, it is delayed to the next note. For instance with CSS: I set ArtID 1 to C0 (Legato) and ArtID 2 to C#0 (Tremelo). The first 2 notes (ArtID 1) are legato as they should be but the 3rd note (ArtID 2) is still playing legato when it should be Tremelo. You can see in Kontakt that CSS has Tremelo selected but it's like the articulation noteOn keyswitch doesn't happen before the noteOn event for the sounding note...its delayed.


----------



## resound

SkyWorker said:


> I flashed my 4.1 (2009) Mac Pro to a 5.1 Mac Pro, the procedure is easy and it is really worth it. This will give you access to Sierra/High Sierra. And you still can go backward to 4.1 if needed.


Thank you for this. I did some research and realized it was much easier than I thought. I flashed my 4,1 and now I am running Sierra and Logic 10.4!


----------



## synthpunk

few tidbits...

PlatinumVerb is now hidden in a legacy folder (accessed by holding alt/option while adding an effect). If you have it in a old project it should still be there.

Step FX is the new Camelspace.


----------



## TGV

rconn said:


> Does anyone have an issue with Logic not selecting the right articulation when the note begins


I already mentioned that for Spitfire Symphonic Strings: at least for some instruments, there needs to be a little bit of time before the first note, probably also when bouncing. So start playback and bouncing say 80 ticks before the first note with an articulation, just to be sure.


----------



## samphony

Soundhound said:


> Smart tempo doesn't work with midi input does it? Only audio?


No not yet!


----------



## Sami

TGV said:


> I already mentioned that for Spitfire Symphonic Strings: at least for some instruments, there needs to be a little bit of time before the first note, probably also when bouncing. So start playback and bouncing say 80 ticks before the first note with an articulation, just to be sure.



I tried with UACC and it completely takes care of the issue


----------



## jonathanwright

Finally got around to downloading. A lot to be pleased about.

Articulation handing has been very well implemented and is seamless, takes a lot of the time and effort out of setting it up.


----------



## Sami

How does the articulation system integrate with Logic Remote?


----------



## jonathanwright

I haven't checked on that. There is a 'Midi Remote' button though, which I guess is for learning triggers from an external controller?

I've no idea if Logic remote is automatic.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Sami said:


> How does the articulation system integrate with Logic Remote?


AFAIK, it doesn't really at the moment, although at the time of writing there wasn't a new version in the app store.
Presumably with an update the key switch view will be available as part of the smart controls setup, leading to a sort of half-way house between logic remote and something like touch osc.


----------



## babylonwaves

jonathanwright said:


> I haven't checked on that. There is a 'Midi Remote' button though, which I guess is for learning triggers from an external controller?


the button enables the switches you have predefined. it's like an on/off button. Logic Remote has not been updated as yet.


----------



## jonathanwright

babylonwaves said:


> the button enables the switches you have predefined. it's like an on/off button. Logic Remote has not been updated as yet.



Aha, I see, thanks.

BTW, when are you releasing your Articulation maps?


----------



## George Bellas

conn said:


> For instance with CSS: I set ArtID 1 to C0 (Legato) and ArtID 2 to C#0 (Tremelo)...



While I don't have a solution for the issue you mentioned (still on 10.3.2)...

You just gave me a glimpse of how this new articulation ID system works, and wow, I am really excited about this; sounds amazing and totally liberating! Can't wait to dive in! This feature has been a long time coming while painstakingly having to endure the clunkiness of messy keyswitches and being bound by the 16 MIDI channel limit.

THANK YOU LOGIC TEAM!


----------



## ptram

Am I wrong, or the new articulation system can't be used with VSL, if not for the most basic sets?

VSL organizes articulations into matrices of cells. Each cell in a matrix is an articulation. The maximum size of a matrix is 12x12, so you have to use more rows to have enough articulations for most tasks.

A cell is selected via two MIDI messages: one for the X-Axis, the other for the Y-Axis. If I'm not wrong, Logic can only send a single message for each articulation. Therefore, you can select by a single row of cells in VSL.

Do you see any alternative solution?

Paolo


----------



## Alex Fraser

Anyone else not getting the lightshow on Chromaverb? Plugin sounds fine but I don't see all the nice rainbow graphics. Maybe it's because I'm on an old crusty 2011 iMac...


----------



## jonathanwright

George Bellas said:


> While I don't have a solution for the issue you mentioned (still on 10.3.2)...
> 
> You just gave me a glimpse of how this new articulation ID system works, and wow, I am really excited about this; sounds amazing and totally liberating! Can't wait to dive in! This feature has been a long time coming while painstakingly having to endure the clunkiness of messy keyswitches and being bound by the 16 MIDI channel limit.
> 
> THANK YOU LOGIC TEAM!



I'm just messing around with it now, using Metagrid on my iPad as a trigger. It works flawlessly and only took seconds to set up to match my pre-existing Metagrid template.

I love being able to trigger two articulations at once!


----------



## jonathanwright

I just noticed how you can now see all the different MIDI CC data lanes in a region faintly in the piano roll.

So you can see velocity values when editing CC1 etc. The little arrow makes it much easier to flip between lanes while editing.


----------



## Alex Fraser

jonathanwright said:


> I just noticed how you can now see all the different MIDI CC data lanes in a region faintly in the piano roll.
> 
> So you can see velocity values when editing CC1 etc. The little arrow makes it much easier to flip between lanes while editing.


There's a keyboard shortcut to switch between lanes - cmd+y is the default. These two things IMO negate the need for multiple lanes. YMMV etc.


----------



## garyhiebner

synthpunk said:


> Remind me please, does naming current Logic version to something like LX10.3.3 allow the new update to be downloaded separately or will it still overwrite the current version ? Tx


Yeah rename your Logic to something else, and then you can do the update and it will create a new Logic Application


----------



## George Bellas

jonathanwright said:


> I'm just messing around with it now, using Metagrid on my iPad as a trigger. It works flawlessly and only took seconds to set up to match my pre-existing Metagrid template.
> 
> I love being able to trigger two articulations at once!



Thanks for the report Jonathan. It's much appreciated and great to hear!


----------



## thesteelydane

Geoff Grace said:


> I want to know how well the new Smart Tempo feature can map the tempo to a rubato piano performance.
> 
> I'm primarily a Pro Tools user and haven't upgraded Logic Pro since version 9. If Smart Tempo lives up to it's billing, I may finally buy version 10.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff



Haven’t tried it yet, but there’s always the old fashioned way of doing it with transient markers and beat mapping. It’s just a bit time consuming, but at least you have complete control over the tempo map.


----------



## MarcelM

Alex Fraser said:


> Anyone else not getting the lightshow on Chromaverb? Plugin sounds fine but I don't see all the nice rainbow graphics. Maybe it's because I'm on an old crusty 2011 iMac...



you can turn the lightshow on/off with the button in the lower right corner.


----------



## George Bellas

For those curious about the new Articulation ID system implemented in Logic Pro 10.4, here is a direct link to Apple's documentation on the feature: Articulation Editing Overview


----------



## jonathanwright

Alex Fraser said:


> There's a keyboard shortcut to switch between lanes - cmd+y is the default. These two things IMO negate the need for multiple lanes. YMMV etc.



Yup, I actually have separate key commands set up to switch to each CC, but after doing a bit of editing just now, I found it slightly quicker to click the arrow on the left while I had my pointer in the piano roll.

The tempo matching is surprisingly intelligent. I've been dragging a few FX audio files in, such as risers, rolls and impacts, and every time it managed to line up the 'hitpoint' of each file to the beat.


----------



## lpuser

Heroix said:


> you can turn the lightshow on/off with the button in the lower right corner.



Indeed, however be aware that the lightshow requires a graphics card which supports Metal. Older cards do not support Metal - and some cards "overload" when having AirPlay enabled in parallel etc.


----------



## ptram

ptram said:


> Am I wrong, or the new articulation system can't be used with VSL, if not for the most basic sets? ... A cell is selected via two MIDI messages: one for the X-Axis, the other for the Y-Axis. If I'm not wrong, Logic can only send a single message for each articulation. Therefore, you can select by a single row of cells in VSL.


Maybe there is a workaround. If I’m not wrong, Logic can send a keyswitch with a particular velocity value or velocity range. Vienna Player can use the Keyswitch Velocity to select a row on the Y-Axis. So, maybe the single Note On + Velocity message can select a matrix cell.

Paolo


----------



## synthpunk

Anyone found a way to find the new Alchemy Visions soundset ?


----------



## Alex Fraser

synthpunk said:


> Anyone found a way to find the new Alchemy Visions soundset ?


Yep, see the library pane rather than Alchemy's own browser.


----------



## jonathanwright

Alex Fraser said:


> Yep, see the library pane rather than Alchemy's own browser.



You can also find it in Alchemy if you change one of the dropdown filters to 'Sound Library'.


----------



## babylonwaves

ptram said:


> Am I wrong, or the new articulation system can't be used with VSL, if not for the most basic sets?
> Do you see any alternative solution?


Right now you cannot do that. But there might be a solution with the help of some additional software. maybe I have news for you after the weekend.


----------



## dcoscina

There's a ton of content to Logic X- I know it's possible but what is the way to migrate much of Logic's content onto an external HD since my MB Air has only got 128gb internal flash memory. 

I've looked around but it's not clear or else I've tried and it doesn't work :(


----------



## babylonwaves

We've just released Art Conductor for Logic 10.4 ---


----------



## ptram

ptram said:


> If I’m not wrong, Logic can send a keyswitch with a particular velocity value or velocity range. Vienna Player can use the Keyswitch Velocity to select a row on the Y-Axis. So, maybe the single Note On + Velocity message can select a matrix cell


I can confirm this works. Yay! If Babilonwaves doesn't have an alternative, I'll have to spend many of my days reprogramming everything…

Paolo


----------



## mc_deli

I can't believe there is no native support for N in 10.4... it's just not worth the upgrade fee


----------



## Soundhound

Mixer undo. yay. serious yay. Plugin undo for 3rd party plugs as well as apple? (I'm away from my studio for another week so a) jonesing and b) asking dumb questions)

thanks!


----------



## Heinigoldstein

How did you get more than one articulation at once to work ? Can you hit two or more KS at once ? Do you need to copy the events and change the ArtID ? Nothing works here for me, no multible articulations for the same note ?!?


----------



## WindcryMusic

Heinigoldstein said:


> How did you get more than one articulation at once to work ? Can you hit two or more KS at once ? Do you need to copy the events and change the ArtID ? Nothing works here for me, no multible articulations for the same note ?!?



Each note has a single articulation ID associated with it, as you have observed. When I tested simultaneous articulations earlier in this thread, they were on separate notes playing simultaneously (e.g., C3, D3, E3 and G3), each having a different articulation. I'm not aware of anyone having claimed that more than one keyswitch could be assigned to a single note.

Some sample libraries may give you the option to stack multiple articulations to be triggered by a single keyswitch, but to LPX they would still have to look like a single articulation.


----------



## Alex Fraser

This update: I'm still floored. It's like Apple took my personal (fanciful) wish list and made it a reality. Right down to the new algo 'verb. 

I don't think I've paid Apple a cent towards Logic since I brought version X in the first week of availability, way back in 2013. Not only this, but the latest and greatest still works just fine on my ageing 2011 iMac.

Good times for all. Thanks again, Logic dev wizards.


----------



## Heinigoldstein

Ah ok, than I missunderstood what you did, I though you were layering articulations.

It's pretty important for the use of the multis in OTs Capsule, so I will stick SkiSwitcher I guess.


----------



## WindcryMusic

Heinigoldstein said:


> Ah ok, than I missunderstood what you did, I though you were layering articulations.
> 
> It's pretty important for the use of the multis in OTs Capsule, so I will stick SkiSwitcher I guess.



I probably lack a clear idea of what you are trying to do, but I don't know of any reason why you can't duplicate what SkiSwitcher does. You can still stack up multiple patches in Kontakt, and have the 10.4 articulation sets making selections by changing the MIDI output channel rather than sending an actual keyswitch, which from what I understand is essentially the same thing that SkiSwitcher does.


----------



## jonathanwright

Heinigoldstein said:


> How did you get more than one articulation at once to work ? Can you hit two or more KS at once ? Do you need to copy the events and change the ArtID ? Nothing works here for me, no multible articulations for the same note ?!?



I copied the region, then placed it over the original, each region played different articulations at the same time.


----------



## stigc56

Sitting and watching Eli K's videos on Groove3 about this update. I'm on Cubase, but have been "fidling around" with Logic. The possibility to program art switching so it facilitates trying different instruments without all the hassle there is in Cubase looks really good. Again let me encourage all here to share their set-ups and art-maps with each other, so we can spend the time making music, not programming.


----------



## Pier

Great news.

It seems since 2017 Apple has started to care about its pro users again.


----------



## InLight-Tone

toddkedwards said:


> I converted to Cubase over a year ago from Logic. Can you disable tracks yet in Logic (I know about freeze, not the same)? If Apple adds this, I might jump back to using Logic again.
> 
> I'm really interested in founding and trying out the articulations and how they work in Logic compared to Cubase.


Yes, if they added disabled tracks I might even look at going Mac, god forbid. I am so used to the workflow of having a large disabled track template having most of my go to stuff laid out in front of me ready to write...


----------



## InLight-Tone

Can you trigger multiple articulations at the same time? You cannot in Cubase and some instruments like Amplesound guitars and libraries like Mars and Venus you kind of need to be able to trigger multiple keyswitches to use them properly...?


----------



## synthpunk

I'm going to try that this week for 10.5!!!.... 

-EXS-24 Mk II
-Full Softube Console 1 Integration




Alex Fraser said:


> This update: I'm still floored. It's like Apple took my personal (fanciful) wish list and made it a reality. Right down to the new algo 'verb.
> 
> I don't think I've paid Apple a cent towards Logic since I brought version X in the first week of availability, way back in 2013. Not only this, but the latest and greatest still works just fine on my ageing 2011 iMac.
> 
> Good times for all. Thanks again, Logic dev wizards.


----------



## rlw

jonathanwright said:


> Thanks for reporting on the articulation features, they sound awesome!




I upgraded Logic today and while I love many of the changes there is one annoying issue that really breaks my work flow. The Automation/Midi in the Piano Roll will will not lock on the Parameter or Midi CC you choose. After just one edit with the mouse, the Selection Choice goes back to some meaningless selection. This is extremely annoying and very costly to the midi editing workflow. I looked for any setting to stop this functionality but if I can't find a setting to stop this functionality, I will have to got back to Logic 3.3. if I don't find a solution because I do so much manual edits on Modulation, Expression , Vibrato etc. and many times I will replay the track as I edit which is prevented by this new functionality.

Has anyone else been bothered by this functionality or am I doing something wrong ?


----------



## ptram

Does anybody know if you can choose the colors for the different articulations?

Paolo


----------



## MarcelM

InLight-Tone said:


> Can you trigger multiple articulations at the same time? You cannot in Cubase and some instruments like Amplesound guitars and libraries like Mars and Venus you kind of need to be able to trigger multiple keyswitches to use them properly...?



yes, you can trigger multiple articulations at the same time. you see that in the video from babylonwaves art conductor.



ptram said:


> Does anybody know if you can choose the colors for the different articulations?
> 
> Paolo



different articulations can be shown with a different color in piano roll. not sure if u can change those.


----------



## Alex Fraser

rlw said:


> I upgraded Logic today and while I love many of the changes there is one annoying issue that really breaks my work flow. The Automation/Midi in the Piano Roll will will not lock on the Parameter or Midi CC you choose. After just one edit with the mouse, the Selection Choice goes back to some meaningless selection. This is extremely annoying and very costly to the midi editing workflow. I looked for any setting to stop this functionality but if I can't find a setting to stop this functionality, I will have to got back to Logic 3.3. if I don't find a solution because I do so much manual edits on Modulation, Expression , Vibrato etc. and many times I will replay the track as I edit which is prevented by this new functionality.
> 
> Has anyone else been bothered by this functionality or am I doing something wrong ?


If this is what I think you mean...
Top Logic menu:
Mix > Autoselect Automation Parameter in Read Mode > Deselect


----------



## rlw

Alex Fraser said:


> If this is what I think you mean...
> Top Logic menu:
> Mix > Autoselect Automation Parameter in Read Mode > Deselect


Awesome, Thank you , Thank You, Thank You. 

I just knew there had to be some option to change this ....


----------



## stigc56

I have created my first art map in Logic Pro x 10.4. VSL Chamber Strings. Very nice that it's possible to select program numbers *and* notes in the same map! The VSL art changing can be accomplished by setting the Y-axis switch to keyswitch velocity. It works! It's NOT finished, there are Articulations, Output but the Input isn't finished. If anyone wants to give it a try, please up the result to share.


----------



## mc_deli

I note Logic Remote dropped support for iPad in November (I missed that)... there is no new Logic Remote for 10.4 yet... but I will be buggered...

Anyone using older LR 1.3.2(?) and iPad or earlier with 10.4?


----------



## mc_deli

Interesting stuff here: https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/...sid=bf6565ada67d010238cd27c4c49d45c2&start=40

So, if Articulation IDs are saved globally (unlike drum maps that are saved per project) and art ID data is in plist files, can we share art ID configurations... TL;DR how close are we to some kind of plug n play UACC utopia where we can use art ID output to unify all artics...?


----------



## babylonwaves

mc_deli said:


> So, if Articulation IDs are saved globally (unlike drum maps that are saved per project) and art ID data is in plist files, can we share art ID configurations... TL;DR how close are we to some kind of plug n play UACC utopia where we can use art ID output to unify all artics...?


not that far away. in art conductor i match the articulation IDs with the UACC values. this way, when you move a region to another track, chances are good that you end up triggering a similar articulation. because all that remains valid is the note and the ID. the sets are a part of the project once you use them on a track.


----------



## synthpunk

Very important to be clear about this...

I believe Logic Remote was dropped for older 32 Bit Ipads ?



mc_deli said:


> I note Logic Remote dropped support for iPad in November (I missed that)... there is no new Logic Remote for 10.4 yet... but I will be buggered...
> 
> Anyone using older LR 1.3.2(?) and iPad or earlier with 10.4?


----------



## WindcryMusic

synthpunk said:


> Very important to be clear about this...
> 
> I believe Logic Remote was dropped for older 32 Bit Ipads ?



I had the same thought/worry when I read mc_deli's post. I checked, and it looks like you need to be running iOS 11 in order to get the latest version thereof. So it isn't just a 64 bit requirement, apparently ... I have an iPad Air 2 running iOS 10 which runs 64 bit apps all of the time, but I can't get the latest version of Logic Remote (I have 1.3.2 and the store has 1.3.3, and doesn't allow me to download the update). So that's a bit annoying, since I'm avoiding updating this iPad to iOS 11 out of not wanting to lose access to several dozen 32 bit apps that I use (or intend to use eventually, in some cases). My eventual plan is to get a 2nd iPad (Pro?) for the studio and keep this older one for my 32 bit apps ... hmm, maybe I'll have to do that sooner than I had expected.


----------



## mc_deli

It's annoying that Logic Remote hardware compatibility isn't listed on don't-forget-they-still-don't-pay-tax-and-that's-why-your-schools-are-crap's version history on the support pages...


----------



## synthpunk

Logic Remote System Requirements are plainly listed here.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logic-remote/id638394624?mt=8

Lets please keep politics out of this section.



mc_deli said:


> It's annoying that Logic Remote hardware compatibility isn't listed on don't-forget-they-still-don't-pay-tax-and-that's-why-your-schools-are-crap's version history on the support pages...


----------



## macmac

Could someone check the arrangement markers and see if all of them are selectable? The only one I'm able to select or change its name is the first one. For some reason when I try to select any of the others, I can't select them, change their name, nothing. They are like dead. I tried it in an old project (that's when I discovered it) but in a new project, it's the same thing. Never happened to me before so I don't know if it's something in my system or something that came along with 10.4. Thanks.


----------



## WindcryMusic

macmac said:


> Could someone check the arrangement markers and see if all of them are selectable? The only one I'm able to select or change its name is the first one. For some reason when I try to select any of the others, I can't select them, change their name, nothing. They are like dead. I tried it in an old project (that's when I discovered it) but in a new project, it's the same thing. Never happened to me before so I don't know if it's something in my system or something that came along with 10.4. Thanks.



Seems okay here on 10.4.


----------



## galactic orange

WindcryMusic said:


> I had the same thought/worry when I read mc_deli's post. I checked, and it looks like you need to be running iOS 11 in order to get the latest version thereof. So it isn't just a 64 bit requirement, apparently ... I have an iPad Air 2 running iOS 10 which runs 64 bit apps all of the time, but I can't get the latest version of Logic Remote (I have 1.3.2 and the store has 1.3.3, and doesn't allow me to download the update). So that's a bit annoying, since I'm avoiding updating this iPad to iOS 11 out of not wanting to lose access to several dozen 32 bit apps that I use (or intend to use eventually, in some cases). My eventual plan is to get a 2nd iPad (Pro?) for the studio and keep this older one for my 32 bit apps ... hmm, maybe I'll have to do that sooner than I had expected.



Is Logic Remote 1.3.3 is REQUIRED in order to use an iPad with the new Logic 10.4?

I have 2 systems with Logic Pro X installed:

Primary - Mac Mini 2012 with El Capitan 10.11.6
Secondary - MacBook Pro 2009 with El Capitan 10.11.6 which cannot be updated to a newer OS (and I can't afford a new MBP at the moment)

I can update the "newer" primary system to Sierra and Logic 10.4 but if Logic Remote 1.3.3 is required (in addition to iOS11) then the iPad Air 2 will not be compatible with the older Logic version on the older MBP. Is that a correct assumption?


----------



## synthpunk

Cool things in Logic Pro X Part 10.4


----------



## WindcryMusic

galactic orange said:


> Is Logic Remote 1.3.3 is REQUIRED in order to use an iPad with the new Logic 10.4?



I just tried my iPad Air 2 with iOS 10 and the 1.3.2 Logic Remote with LPX 10.4 running on my MacBook Pro (can't upgrade my main studio computer yet 'cause I'm in the middle of a project). It appears to work without issues … tried a lot of the buttons, transport and mixer, and had no problems. Obviously the new 10.4 features won't be supported by an older Logic Remote version, but what's there does still seem to work fine, and that's enough for me for now.


----------



## Pier

Camel phat is back!

That's one of the first plugins I bought *ages* ago.


----------



## galactic orange

WindcryMusic said:


> I just tried my iPad Air 2 with iOS 10 and the 1.3.2 Logic Remote with LPX 10.4 running on my MacBook Pro (can't upgrade my main studio computer yet 'cause I'm in the middle of a project). It appears to work without issues … tried a lot of the buttons, transport and mixer, and had no problems. Obviously the new 10.4 features won't be supported by an older Logic Remote version, but what's there does still seem to work fine, and that's enough for me for now.


Great! That means I can update one computer and leave the other as is while using Logic Remote with both. Thanks a bunch!


----------



## garyhiebner

synthpunk said:


> New Plugins...
> 
> The Vintage EQ Collection sounds really, really good! This coming form a UAD/UBK guy!
> 
> Sub Bass sounds right in the DBX vibe
> 
> Nice clean tails in Chromaverb
> 
> Pitch Correction seems very good if your into that.
> 
> Fat FX is pretty sick, definitely Camelphat/Crusher and beyond!


Isn't SubBass an old Plug-In?


----------



## scottu

babylonwaves said:


> here's a teaser of what's coming very soon ...



This is glorious.


----------



## mark.warman

babylonwaves said:


> here's a teaser of what's coming very soon ...



There is some talk in this thread of Logic's new articulation switching not always being instantaneous. In your video at 1'01" the first high D plays as pizzicato, rather than the feathered spiccato you had chosen. Is that an example of this problem?


----------



## jonathanwright

I’ve managed to quite easily sync articulation sets between my main DAW and laptop using Dropbox, which will be handy.


----------



## garyhiebner

jonathanwright said:


> I’ve managed to quite easily sync articulation sets between my main DAW and laptop using Dropbox, which will be handy.


Awesome. Can't wait to build up my own articulation sets and share them between my machines as well. That's super handy


----------



## garyhiebner

I wish there was a way to see the articulation changes in an automation lane or something. Just so you have a visual view of how they are changing. Unless I'm missing something and there is a way to view them somewhere in the MIDI editor. But its still super cool that we can build up our articulation sets. Just when you think your template is nearly done, Logic throws in this feature


----------



## jonathanwright

garyhiebner said:


> I wish there was a way to see the articulation changes in an automation lane or something. Just so you have a visual view of how they are changing. Unless I'm missing something and there is a way to view them somewhere in the MIDI editor. But its still super cool that we can build up our articulation sets. Just when you think your template is nearly done, Logic throws in this feature



I agree. In the meantime, I'm using the event list when I need to.


----------



## Alex Fraser

garyhiebner said:


> I wish there was a way to see the articulation changes in an automation lane or something. Just so you have a visual view of how they are changing. Unless I'm missing something and there is a way to view them somewhere in the MIDI editor. But its still super cool that we can build up our articulation sets. Just when you think your template is nearly done, Logic throws in this feature


View > Set Note Colour > By Articulation
Not the perfect solution, but useful.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Are there any presets for Chromaverb? I can’t find them in the plug-in GUI.


----------



## Living Fossil

Has anybody yet figured out a way how to use the articulation sets with those VSL patches that use *two* keys to determine the actual articulation?


----------



## Living Fossil

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Are there any presets for Chromaverb? I can’t find them in the plug-in GUI.



@Ned Bouhalassa : I had the same issue. The solution is that you have to download the basic contents in the library manager. This will load the presets for all new plug ins.


----------



## anp27

garyhiebner said:


> I wish there was a way to see the articulation changes in an automation lane or something. Just so you have a visual view of how they are changing.



This is exactly what I'm hoping for in the future as well. I don't think viewing MIDI note colors as Articulations is very useful.... I like the MIDI notes to reflect velocity. Also, I'm hoping for a faster way to assign articulations.. grabbing the note(s) then selecting and clicking in the articulation menu is slightly clunky to me. I really try to minimize using the mouse as much as possible.


----------



## babylonwaves

mark.warman said:


> There is some talk in this thread of Logic's new articulation switching not always being instantaneous. In your video at 1'01" the first high D plays as pizzicato, rather than the feathered spiccato you had chosen. Is that an example of this problem?


that's an interesting question. i nearly re-recorded the video but then i thought, it just shows that i really did it live. so far, from what i've red here there are two issues. one is a delay, which i don't have. the other is that articulations don't always switch. i think there is something in this regard. but for now it is difficult to tell if that's a issue on apple's plate or native instruments.


----------



## stigc56

Living Fossil said:


> Has anybody yet figured out a way how to use the articulation sets with those VSL patches that use *two* keys to determine the actual articulation?


Yes I did. Set the Y-axis to KeySwitchVelocity then you can use CC1 to Velocity X-fade!


----------



## stigc56

Sorry I was to fast! The 2 key switch setup is a bit more complicated, I haven't figured that out.


----------



## Heinigoldstein

WindcryMusic said:


> I probably lack a clear idea of what you are trying to do, but I don't know of any reason why you can't duplicate what SkiSwitcher does. You can still stack up multiple patches in Kontakt, and have the 10.4 articulation sets making selections by changing the MIDI output channel rather than sending an actual keyswitch, which from what I understand is essentially the same thing that SkiSwitcher does.





jonathanwright said:


> I copied the region, then placed it over the original, each region played different articulations at the same time.





WindcryMusic said:


> I probably lack a clear idea of what you are trying to do, but I don't know of any reason why you can't duplicate what SkiSwitcher does. You can still stack up multiple patches in Kontakt, and have the 10.4 articulation sets making selections by changing the MIDI output channel rather than sending an actual keyswitch, which from what I understand is essentially the same thing that SkiSwitcher does.



It works with copied notes and single patches, I didn´t set it up right before I guess. But it seems to me that the multi patches in Capsule get mixed up in poly KS mode since 10.4, even when no articulation set is loaded. So this seems to be OT related.

BUT, it´s not possible to send more than one articulation in realtime as far as I understand, which is essential for some GUIs.

It´s still a great improvement though and I would like to be able to use it.


----------



## Heinigoldstein

babylonwaves said:


> not that far away. in art conductor i match the articulation IDs with the UACC values. this way, when you move a region to another track, chances are good that you end up triggering a similar articulation. because all that remains valid is the note and the ID. the sets are a part of the project once you use them on a track.


Maybe I´m too stupid for this, but how should it work ? Every developer has different multis and a lot of them you can customize to your own needs. So how do you detect, where you´ll find my( f.e.) "Staccato" patches within Spitfire ; within Berlin; within Hollywood Strings and so on ? Don´t get me wrong, it would be great, but how should this work ?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

resound said:


> Thanks, yea I found a hack for older systems but I'm not sure if it is worth the risk/hassle. My Mac Pro is an early 2009. It's got a lot of power seems like it should be able to handle anything.


You can upgrade (flash) the firmware on your machine to a 5,1 (2010) from a 4,1 (2009)
People have been doing it for years now in order to get 6-Core and 12-Core configurations
That is how many people who did not buy 2010 or 2012 machines have 6 and 12-Core setups
The machine is identical apart from the firmware

Really I would look into it


----------



## babylonwaves

Heinigoldstein said:


> Maybe I´m too stupid for this, but how should it work ? Every developer has different multis and a lot of them you can customize to your own needs. So how do you detect, where you´ll find my( f.e.) "Staccato" patches within Spitfire ; within Berlin; within Hollywood Strings and so on ? Don´t get me wrong, it would be great, but how should this work ?


i create articulation sets which are based on the instruments the content developers release with the samples.


----------



## mc_deli

synthpunk said:


> Logic Remote System Requirements are plainly listed here.
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logic-remote/id638394624?mt=8
> 
> Lets please keep politics out of the this section.


They are only listed for the current version and the changelog does not list the compatibilities or dropped compatibility.

Sorry for the politics (naaaaaat)


----------



## Heinigoldstein

babylonwaves said:


> i create articulation sets which are based on the instruments the content developers release with the samples.


Thanks, I changed the threat for further questions


----------



## Alex Fraser

All this talk of articulations got me exploring Logic's other instruments.
Turns out the factory cowbell has 6 articulations..
Who here is going to make a map for this? 






Edit: I made one. You're welcome, VI controllers. I hope I don't put @babylonwaves out of business..
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t93mg6viq8vzuc4/Factory Cowbell.plist?dl=0


----------



## gpax

rlw said:


> Awesome, Thank you , Thank You, Thank You.
> 
> I just knew there had to be some option to change this ....


You are not alone. I had to look this up over at Logic Pro Forums, after a brief total freak out, lol. I suspected it was a default for a new feature which I’d then have to turn off until it made sense.


----------



## stigc56

Is it possible to have 2 different keys act as a shortcut to the same function in Logic. I like to have - on the numeric to rewind, but also the <, which is very good for my left hand. I can do it in Cubase, but is it possible in Logic?


----------



## resound

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> You can upgrade (flash) the firmware on your machine to a 5,1 (2010) from a 4,1 (2009)
> People have been doing it for years now in order to get 6-Core and 12-Core configurations
> That is how many people who did not buy 2010 or 2012 machines have 6 and 12-Core setups
> The machine is identical apart from the firmware
> 
> Really I would look into it


I already figured this out  but thanks for the tip! I've got my Mac Pro running Sierra and Logic 10.4 now. Woohoo!


----------



## resound

mark.warman said:


> There is some talk in this thread of Logic's new articulation switching not always being instantaneous. In your video at 1'01" the first high D plays as pizzicato, rather than the feathered spiccato you had chosen. Is that an example of this problem?


I noticed some issues with one of my Spitfire libraries while testing out articulations. I'll see if I can post a video.


----------



## yellow hat

Started creating custom articulation sets!
Anyone know a way to select all and choose a setting for multiple articulations at the same time?
When I select all and try to assign Controller as switcher for all articulations in a set it just deselect all and change one articulation.
Tried all modifiers but no luck...


----------



## synthpunk

TX Alex, some nice sounds in there!



Alex Fraser said:


> Yep, see the library pane rather than Alchemy's own browser.


----------



## resound

I pulled up SCS Violins 1 to test out the articulation mapping using UACC and I came across this bug. Anyone else experiencing something like this?


----------



## whinecellar

Killer update - so many great new toys & features! Loving Chromaverb, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to mess with the "Mod Source" buttons and "Smoothing" slider - they are greyed out. What am I missing there?


----------



## khollister

resound said:


> I pulled up SCS Violins 1 to test out the articulation mapping using UACC and I came across this bug. Anyone else experiencing something like this?




Interesting. Try turning off the articulation control (selecting "none" for articulation set) - does it do the same thing with legato selected as the articulation in Kontakt. Not sure if it's the articulation stuff, Logic in general or a Kontakt/Spitfire bug.


----------



## khollister

I have been experimenting also and so far have not gotten the scenario where an articulation didn't "take". I'm going to rewatch the demo video to see if I can recreate.


----------



## resound

khollister said:


> Interesting. Try turning off the articulation control (selecting "none" for articulation set) - does it do the same thing with legato selected as the articulation in Kontakt. Not sure if it's the articulation stuff, Logic in general or a Kontakt/Spitfire bug.


Yea if I turn off the articulation control then it plays back fine. It's weird, if I start fresh and create a new articulation set it starts out working fine but then eventually it "breaks" and no longer plays the correct articulation.


----------



## gpax

resound said:


> I pulled up SCS Violins 1 to test out the articulation mapping using UACC and I came across this bug. Anyone else experiencing something like this?



Yes. This is a problem. Even before I saw your video (thanks!) I spent the last hour coming to a similar conclusion.

At least as I experiment, a preceding cc 1 value is, in fact, interrupting the UACC articulation triggering properly. The problem is that I cannot replicate this consistently, though it is erratic, and it seems that before I added cc 1 to the longer notes, I was having a grand old time testing out Babylonwaves' maps for various Spitfire libraries. Khollister seems to be on a similar path of inquiry...

As a matter of experimentation, it seems if you move/extend the previous cc 1 value in your automation over past the start point of the subsequent note played, the articulation change behaves as it should. But of course that's not ideal. I also found that flat-lining any added cc 1 under things like the short notes, where they are primarily velocity, has helped to remedy those dropping out.

I'm still trying various scenarios, but the relation of cc 1 (and possibly other dynamics), seems to be part of the puzzle in terms of dropped articulations.


----------



## ptram

Living Fossil said:


> Has anybody yet figured out a way how to use the articulation sets with those VSL patches that use *two* keys to determine the actual articulation?


I think you can't use two keys. You can, however, use a key to select the X-Axis, and the Keyswitch Velocity to select the Y-Axis. Works great for me.

Paolo


----------



## khollister

gpax said:


> Yes. This is a problem. Even before I saw your video (thanks!) I spent the last hour coming to a similar conclusion.
> 
> At least as I experiment, a preceding cc 1 value is, in fact, interrupting the UACC articulation triggering properly. The problem is that I cannot replicate this consistently, though it is erratic, and it seems that before I added cc 1 to the longer notes, I was having a grand old time testing out Babylonwaves' maps for various Spitfire libraries. Khollister seems to be on a similar path of inquiry...
> 
> As a matter of experimentation, it seems if you move/extend the previous cc 1 value in your automation over past the start point of the subsequent note played, the articulation change behaves as it should. But of course that's not ideal. I also found that flat-lining any added cc 1 under things like the short notes, where they are primarily velocity, has helped to remedy those dropping out.
> 
> I'm still trying various scenarios, but the relation of cc 1 (and possibly other dynamics), seems to be part of the puzzle in terms of dropped articulations.



I'm not sure what I'm on the track of. I just created a simple line using SSS V1 and even with drastic CC 1 changes like in Sean's video, I'm not getting articulation errors. I have gotten some weirdness earlier but part of this may be because I haven't used Logic in quite a while and got wrapped around the axle with automation lanes.

It would be interesting for someone that can duplicate this to substitute a different library (non-Spitfire) on the same MIDI track and automation (with the appropriate map of course) to see if it is UACC & Spitfire or something in Logic.

I can't get anything to fail reliably enough to troubleshoot anything (or to submit a ticket to Apple or Spitfire).


----------



## Alex Fraser

khollister said:


> I'm not sure what I'm on the track of. I just created a simple line using SSS V1 and even with drastic CC 1 changes like in Sean's video, I'm not getting articulation errors. I have gotten some weirdness earlier but part of this may be because I haven't used Logic in quite a while and got wrapped around the axle with automation lanes.
> 
> It would be interesting for someone that can duplicate this to substitute a different library (non-Spitfire) on the same MIDI track and automation (with the appropriate map of course) to see if it is UACC & Spitfire or something in Logic.
> 
> I can't get anything to fail reliably enough to troubleshoot anything (or to submit a ticket to Apple or Spitfire).


I've had a brief play with Albion ONE. I got a couple of missed notes and switches, but nothing important enough to get the pitchforks out. I guess Logic/Kontakt/Your Library all have to be playing ball for the switches to work OK.


----------



## khollister

I just tried to dupe Sean's example on the video with SCS (which I also own) - no dice. I guess I'm going to stop trying to break and see what happens in real use.


----------



## luke_7

whinecellar said:


> Killer update - so many great new toys & features! Loving Chromaverb, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to mess with the "Mod Source" buttons and "Smoothing" slider - they are greyed out. What am I missing there?



Killer update indeed ! To use "Mod Source " and "Smoothing" just go with different presets it works.


----------



## CT

I'm bummed out that Chromaverb's funky GUI can't do its thing on my older machine. But I guess it sounds cool.


----------



## anp27

miket said:


> I'm bummed out that Chromaverb's funky GUI can't do its thing on my older machine. But I guess it sounds cool.



I have an early 2011 MBP (in addition to my late 2012 Mac mini) and I too was a bit bummed out when I didn't see the disco lights. But then I remembered that all of the Valhalla reverbs don't have any sort of visualizations whatsoever in the UI either and I've been using them just fine for years now.. they're also some of the most highly regarded reverb plugins available. I don't feel so bad anymore


----------



## rconn

So I have been working with articulation sets for CSS. Mapping keyswitches through to CC58. Here is an interesting find. All works as expected until you start using Modulation (CC1) or any CC for that matter. If you modulate while recording, the current active articulation id is assigned to the CC event. If you draw it in after the fact it will be set to "-", which produces unpredictable behavior by defaulting to the first articulation listed in your articulation set.

Why is this an issue? Well, say you record a line in spiccato and then modulate during the phrase and then go back and decide that you'd rather have all the notes as staccatissimo. You select the notes in the piano editor and change them to the new articulation. Play back and hear some rather weird stuff happening. Turns out the modulation events are still set to the old articulation and are causing your instrument to switch to that articulation. So you have to go to the event list and select all the notes AND cc messages and set their articulation to the same one. This could get very tedious and cost a lot of time.

Right now, I view this as a bug. If its the way the developers intended it, please include a way to turn it off and just pass CC messages through untouched.


----------



## rconn

gpax said:


> Yes. This is a problem. Even before I saw your video (thanks!) I spent the last hour coming to a similar conclusion.
> 
> At least as I experiment, a preceding cc 1 value is, in fact, interrupting the UACC articulation triggering properly. The problem is that I cannot replicate this consistently, though it is erratic, and it seems that before I added cc 1 to the longer notes, I was having a grand old time testing out Babylonwaves' maps for various Spitfire libraries. Khollister seems to be on a similar path of inquiry...
> 
> As a matter of experimentation, it seems if you move/extend the previous cc 1 value in your automation over past the start point of the subsequent note played, the articulation change behaves as it should. But of course that's not ideal. I also found that flat-lining any added cc 1 under things like the short notes, where they are primarily velocity, has helped to remedy those dropping out.
> 
> I'm still trying various scenarios, but the relation of cc 1 (and possibly other dynamics), seems to be part of the puzzle in terms of dropped articulations.



Check out the event list and look at the controller events for CC1. You will notice the articulation is also set. When you make changes to the note articulations, you also have to change the CC events otherwise Logic ping-pongs from the articulation set in the note event back to the articulation set in the CC event. IMO this is an oversight on their behalf. CC messages should just pass through unless you explicitly set them in the articulation set.

If you draw in CC lane after recording the articulation will be "-" and Logic will still pingpong between the first articulation id in your set and the new one on the note event. So yeah! It is a bug.


----------



## rconn

resound said:


> I pulled up SCS Violins 1 to test out the articulation mapping using UACC and I came across this bug. Anyone else experiencing something like this?




Yes. Check out my post above on it. You can work around it, but if you do a lot of CC automation its going to suck having to constantly go back and change CC events to the right articulation.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Hadn't noticed before: There's a new demo song by Beck included with 10.4. Bit of a goldmine of mixing tips.


----------



## Alex Fraser

rconn said:


> So I have been working with articulation sets for CSS. Mapping keyswitches through to CC58. Here is an interesting find. All works as expected until you start using Modulation (CC1) or any CC for that matter. If you modulate while recording, the current active articulation id is assigned to the CC event. If you draw it in after the fact it will be set to "-", which produces unpredictable behavior by defaulting to the first articulation listed in your articulation set.
> 
> Why is this an issue? Well, say you record a line in spiccato and then modulate during the phrase and then go back and decide that you'd rather have all the notes as staccatissimo. You select the notes in the piano editor and change them to the new articulation. Play back and hear some rather weird stuff happening. Turns out the modulation events are still set to the old articulation and are causing your instrument to switch to that articulation. So you have to go to the event list and select all the notes AND cc messages and set their articulation to the same one. This could get very tedious and cost a lot of time.
> 
> Right now, I view this as a bug. If its the way the developers intended it, please include a way to turn it off and just pass CC messages through untouched.


Very interesting. Would it make a difference if your VI was set to respond to note-on data to switch articulations, as opposed to CC messages?


----------



## rconn

Alex Fraser said:


> Very interesting. Would it make a difference if your VI was set to respond to note-on data to switch articulations, as opposed to CC messages?



That was my first approach, but I was finding the articulations where delayed. I've experienced this before with ArtzId. I'll give it a go with a new articulation set that sends keyswitches noteOn events instead and get back to everyone.


----------



## resound

rconn said:


> Yes. Check out my post above on it. You can work around it, but if you do a lot of CC automation its going to suck having to constantly go back and change CC events to the right articulation.


Ah, nice catch! Yes, definitely a bug. I've already sent in a bug report so hopefully it is something they can fix soon.


----------



## Alex Fraser

rconn said:


> That was my first approach, but I was finding the articulations where delayed. I've experienced this before with ArtzId. I'll give it a go with a new articulation set that sends keyswitches noteOn events instead and get back to everyone.


I did a quick test with Albion ONE using the standard UACC switching. I think you're onto something. Having modulation data (CC1) active at the same time has the effect you describe. In the case of Albion ONE, it doesn't appear to change the output of the instrument, but you can see the articulation changes being triggered by CC1 on the GUI. Removing the CC1 mod data stops these changes being made. I'd investigate more, but it's bedtime here in the UK..


----------



## rconn

Alex Fraser said:


> Very interesting. Would it make a difference if your VI was set to respond to note-on data to switch articulations, as opposed to CC messages?



Ok. Went back and created a new articulation set and used note on events for CSS. Same issue. The CC1 data takes on the articulation of the note.


----------



## khollister

rconn said:


> So I have been working with articulation sets for CSS. Mapping keyswitches through to CC58. Here is an interesting find. All works as expected until you start using Modulation (CC1) or any CC for that matter. If you modulate while recording, the current active articulation id is assigned to the CC event. If you draw it in after the fact it will be set to "-", which produces unpredictable behavior by defaulting to the first articulation listed in your articulation set.
> 
> Why is this an issue? Well, say you record a line in spiccato and then modulate during the phrase and then go back and decide that you'd rather have all the notes as staccatissimo. You select the notes in the piano editor and change them to the new articulation. Play back and hear some rather weird stuff happening. Turns out the modulation events are still set to the old articulation and are causing your instrument to switch to that articulation. So you have to go to the event list and select all the notes AND cc messages and set their articulation to the same one. This could get very tedious and cost a lot of time.
> 
> Right now, I view this as a bug. If its the way the developers intended it, please include a way to turn it off and just pass CC messages through untouched.



I just tried this with SSS and the Art Conductor map for Violin 1. I played in some random stuff while riding a CC 1 fader - I got very different results. It looks like what I would expect - no articulation data on the CC events. We are obviously doing something different. I also went back in and changed some articulations - played back perfectly.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

dcoscina said:


> Quick question- seems like I waited too long to upgrade to Sierra (10.12) as I'm still on El Capitan and I only have the option to upgrade to High Sierra- yeah, I don't wanna do that. Any suggestions? I know this is an offshoot to the topic...Thanks. Only el Cap and before shows up in my App Store



Let me know if you need Sierra. I have the installer.


----------



## Alex Fraser

rconn said:


> Ok. Went back and created a new articulation set and used note on events for CSS. Same issue. The CC1 data takes on the articulation of the note.


Same here with Albion ONE.


----------



## khollister

OK - I am able to duplicate getting the articulations in the modulation events if I select an articulation from the piano roll list box or a key switch before recording. However, inspire of all the events having an articulation of "Long", I can go back in in piano roll and change the note articulations and it plays back as intended in spite of all the intervening CC1 events having the "wrong" articulation. 

If I delete all the CC1 events and draw something in for CCq, the event list shows no articulation ID's for the CC1 events.

I don't doubt you guys are having problems, but I can't figure out how to duplicate it. I must not be understanding what you are doing.


----------



## Alex Fraser

khollister said:


> OK - I am able to duplicate getting the articulations in the modulation events if I select an articulation from the piano roll list box or a key switch before recording. However, inspire of all the events having an articulation of "Long", I can go back in in piano roll and change the note articulations and it plays back as intended in spite of all the intervening CC1 events having the "wrong" articulation.
> 
> If I delete all the CC1 events and draw something in for CCq, the event list shows no articulation ID's for the CC1 events.
> 
> I don't doubt you guys are having problems, but I can't figure out how to duplicate it. I must not be understanding what you are doing.


With Albion ONE, despite the extra articulation data attached to CC1, the sounds play back as intended. What you *can* see is the extra articulation triggers affecting the GUI. It updates to reflect the data attached to CC1. 

I’m guess it depends on the VI and how it’s programmed. 

Btw, this is why I (sometimes) love VI control. Everyone trying to find a solution together.


----------



## khollister

Alex Fraser said:


> With Albion ONE, despite the extra articulation data attached to CC1, the sounds play back as intended. What you *can* see is the extra articulation triggers affecting the GUI. It updates to reflect the data attached to CC1.
> 
> I’m guess it depends on the VI and how it’s programmed.
> 
> Btw, this is why I (sometimes) love VI control. Everyone trying to find a solution together.



Hell, I'm still trying to find the problem  BTW, my latest tests were with Spitfire Chamber Strings.


----------



## Peter Schwartz

rconn said:


> That was my first approach, but I was finding the articulations where delayed. I've experienced this before with ArtzId. I'll give it a go with a new articulation set that sends keyswitches noteOn events instead and get back to everyone.



Hey rconn, curious to know what you meant about articulations being delayed in ARTzID. You shouldn't ever have that problem. Now, there _were_ two times when bugs in Logic itself (10.3.0, and again in 10.3.2) caused this, but I issued a fix for it even though it wasn't a problem with ARTzID itself. Hopefully you got that fix. But that aside, as of 10.3.3 and especially as of 10.4 you shouldn't ever experience delayed articulation selection with ARTzID. If you're experiencing this kind of issue for some reason though, write to me at the support email and we can troubleshoot it.


----------



## synthpunk

Where abouts Alex ?



Alex Fraser said:


> Hadn't noticed before: There's a new demo song by Beck included with 10.4. Bit of a goldmine of mixing tips.


----------



## anp27

synthpunk said:


> Where abouts Alex ?



It should be in
/Library/Application Support/Logic/Logic Pro X Demosongs/

If you don't see a demos folder, you can access the Demo Project from the main menu window (don't know what it's officially called). Hit "New Project from Template" and you get that window thingy that says "New Project", "Recent Projects" and "Demo Projects". Under Demo Projects you'll see an icon for the Beck track asking you to download it. Download it and you'll be good to go


----------



## VinRice

khollister said:


> Hell, I'm still trying to find the problem  BTW, my latest tests were with Spitfire Chamber Strings.


I’ve recently had some problems with Chamber Strings where editing the CC1 data causes the articulation to change. This is in Logic 10.3.3 by the way so nothing to do with the update. Some sort of UACC thing perhaps?


----------



## synthpunk

Also here:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/in-case-you-want-an-osx-sierra-installer.66041/



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Let me know if you need Sierra. I have the installer.


----------



## Wunderhorn

For those who don't see the download link to the Mac OS Sierra installer, here is a direct link to the official download: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mac...ign-itsct=APP-APP&ign-itscg=0177&ign-mpt=uo=8


----------



## bvaughn0402

LinusW said:


> ChromaVerb, retina-GUI for Space Designer, ARA 2 support... This is awesome!



Wow, it nearly slipped past me about ARA 2 support! Finally ... Melodyne within Logic full functionality! Now if Celemony will just release the updated Melodyne!!!


----------



## mac4d

bvaughn0402 said:


> Wow, it nearly slipped past me about ARA 2 support! Finally ... Melodyne within Logic full functionality! Now if Celemony will just release the updated Melodyne!!!


http://www.celemony.com/en/pm-logic-ara2


----------



## Alex Fraser

Re the articulation ID's being attached to CC1 events..
Maybe it's possible for someone with more skill and knowledge than I to create a Logic MIDI FX scripter to "strip" articulation data from CC1 events and similar. Might be possible depending on where the script lies in the "midi signal chain" so to speak.


----------



## jonathanwright

Do the same issues occur if you record the CC data in a separate region to overlap the original, then merge the two?


----------



## procreative

Ive not had a chance to test this myself yet as had to go through hoops to get Sierra installed and working. 

But reading the manual, have you all been adjusting the Output tab of the Articulations? Is it not something as simple as the CC values not being tied to a CC number?

Because to me it sounds like the values are being sent out on every CC like a kind of Omni midi value?


----------



## chaosmeister

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> You can upgrade (flash) the firmware on your machine to a 5,1 (2010) from a 4,1 (2009)
> People have been doing it for years now in order to get 6-Core and 12-Core configurations
> That is how many people who did not buy 2010 or 2012 machines have 6 and 12-Core setups


Doesn't flashing the firmware kill the in-built WIFI? That would mean buying a 3rd party WIFI card. No deal breaker, but something to be aware off. Anyone happen to know the details?
I'm considering flashing my own 2009 MacPro as well (followed by a processor upgrade), since I'd love to get the 10.4 update... Hence the question.


----------



## Alex Fraser

procreative said:


> Ive not had a chance to test this myself yet as had to go through hoops to get Sierra installed and working.
> 
> But reading the manual, have you all been adjusting the Output tab of the Articulations? Is it not something as simple as the CC values not being tied to a CC number?
> 
> Because to me it sounds like the values are being sent out on every CC like a kind of Omni midi value?


Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like the articulation ID (and therefore it's associated midi output) is attached to every midi message sent to the VI. So, it's sent with every note-on event (which would be the desired outcome) but also *every* CC event (such as CC1, which would not!)

So if you recorded a "longs" articulation whilst riding the mod wheel and later decided the notes should be "short" - the CC1 values you left in the editor from your initial performance will still be sending "long" articulation ID triggers to your VI, causing the potential conflict.

Have I got that right? I'm pretty sure it's been touched upon earlier.

The key issue is, there doesn't appear to be a way from stopping the articulation events being attached and sent via, say CC1. There needs to be some sort of filter in place that removes articulation triggers from CC events that *haven't* been defined as output triggers in the articulation editor.

Wow, that's a mouthful.


----------



## procreative

Alex Fraser said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like the articulation ID (and therefore it's associated midi output) is attached to every midi message sent to the VI. So, it's sent with every note-on event (which would be the desired outcome) but also *every* CC event (such as CC1, which would not!)
> 
> So if you recorded a "longs" articulation whilst riding the mod wheel and later decided the notes should be "short" - the CC1 values you left in the editor from your initial performance will still be sending "long" articulation ID triggers to your VI, causing the potential conflict.
> 
> Have I got that right? I'm pretty sure it's been touched upon earlier.
> 
> The key issue is, there doesn't appear to be a way from stopping the articulation events being attached and sent via, say CC1. There needs to be some sort of filter in place that removes articulation triggers from CC events that *haven't* been defined as output triggers in the articulation editor.
> 
> Wow, that's a mouthful.



Possibly, but having just fired up Logic, I can see in the Event Editor that only notes seem to have any Articulation info attached to them, the CC1 data has a — instead.


----------



## Alex Fraser

procreative said:


> Possibly, but having just fired up Logic, I can see in the Event Editor that only notes seem to have any Articulation info attached to them, the CC1 data has a — instead.


Absolutely. I think the key thing is finding out why some of us have "leaky" articulations, and some don't!


----------



## khollister

Alex Fraser said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like the articulation ID (and therefore it's associated midi output) is attached to every midi message sent to the VI. So, it's sent with every note-on event (which would be the desired outcome) but also *every* CC event (such as CC1, which would not!)
> 
> So if you recorded a "longs" articulation whilst riding the mod wheel and later decided the notes should be "short" - the CC1 values you left in the editor from your initial performance will still be sending "long" articulation ID triggers to your VI, causing the potential conflict.
> 
> Have I got that right? I'm pretty sure it's been touched upon earlier.
> 
> The key issue is, there doesn't appear to be a way from stopping the articulation events being attached and sent via, say CC1. There needs to be some sort of filter in place that removes articulation triggers from CC events that *haven't* been defined as output triggers in the articulation editor.
> 
> Wow, that's a mouthful.



In my testing with SCS, it doesn't appear that sending an articulation with CC1 messages has any detrimental effect.

And to address procreative's suggestion about MIDI channels, you have to leave the maps sending on all channels because you don't know what channel will be actually used in the track.

However, that did get me thinking about the maps. I have been using the Art Conductor maps I purchased yesterday. These maps have both the Switches & Outputs populated so that you could use keyswitches to select articulations real-time as you play, but the VI is actually controlled by UACC on CC32. However the Switch configuration has a bunch of mode options (Permanent, Momentary & Toggle with further options on each of those). I had assumed that if I wasn't interested in playing in articulations (my left hand is normally occupied riding faders for expression & vibrato) I would just skip the switches and configure only the outputs. That may be the problem - the guys having trouble may be building their own maps and not setting the switch mode properly (or at all).


----------



## khollister

Alex Fraser said:


> Absolutely. I think the key thing is finding out why some of us have "leaky" articulations, and some don't!



The one thing I did discover last night is that if you record a track without initially using the Logic articulation switching to select an articulation (either by keyswitches or manually selecting an art via the dropdown), the recorded CC lanes do NOT have articulations embedded (which is presumable what procreative just tried). In this case the actual articulation being used as you play is whatever you manually selected through Kontakt, PLAY, etc.

However - if you use the Logic articulations to select your initial art (or vary it while recording with a key switch), you get that art on everything including CC's.

The only mystery for me at this point is why Alex & I don't get "phantom articulations" from the CC events and others appear to. I do recall one of the guys (forget who without going back a couple pages) was using CSS for his test so it could be differences in the library scripting. I'm going to find that post now.

UPDATE: So @rconn was the user who posted the screenshot of the event list with the articulations on the CC1 events and experienced problems. He was also using CSS with articulation switching via CC58 (I don't have CSS or CS2 and didn't realize they even supported a UACC-like thing).

Sean (@resound) posted the video with large reductions in CC1 screwing with SCS articulations. That would seem to be a different problem, and I could not replicate his experience with my copy of SCS.


----------



## Alex Fraser

khollister said:


> That may be the problem - the guys having trouble may be building their own maps and not setting the switch mode properly (or at all).


It's a good point. I tried the different modes, but still articulation data was attached to CC1.


----------



## Alex Fraser

khollister said:


> The only mystery for me at this point is why Alex & I don't get "phantom articulations" from the CC events and others appear to. I do recall one of the guys (forget who without going back a couple pages) was using CSS for his test so it could be differences in the library scripting. I'm going to find that post now.


I can *see* the rogue articulation events having an effect on the Albion GUI (it keeps flashing between articulations when only one articulation is playing..) but the actual note output doesn't seem affected.
So it could be a case of what the individual VIs do with the onslaught of trigger events.. 

Either way, it seems like the removal of artic data from non-defined CC's would be welcome. That's a lot of extra midi data flying about.


----------



## khollister

Alex Fraser said:


> I can *see* the rogue articulation events having an effect on the Albion GUI (it keeps flashing between articulations when only articulation is playing..) but the actual note output doesn't seem affected.
> So it could be a case of what the individual VIs do with the onslaught of trigger events..



I wasn't paying attention to the Kontakt GUI when I was testing last night so I guess I need to do this all again. It does make sense to me that even if the instrument received a new articulation, it can't really change what is sounding once the note-on message is received (can't change playing articulations during a single sustained note).


----------



## khollister

Alex Fraser said:


> Either way, it seems like the removal of artic data from non-defined CC's would be welcome. That's a lot of extra midi data flying about.



Agreed - this is the bug report we need to all submit to Apple. I wonder if on a key switch only instrument, articulations are still placed into CC events as well?


----------



## Alex Fraser

khollister said:


> I wasn't paying attention to the Kontakt GUI when I was testing last night so I guess I need to do this all again. It does make sense to me that even if the instrument received a new articulation, it can't really change what is sounding once the note-on message is received (can't change playing articulations during a single sustained note).


Yes, this is my understanding.
It would be interesting to know if it's done this way by design? It's not an insurmountable issue - and we know how to fix it if conflicts occur (by removing or flattening CC curves.) It just seems like a strange design choice assuming it's not a bug.


----------



## Alex Fraser

khollister said:


> Agreed - this is the bug report we need to all submit to Apple. I wonder if on a key switch only instrument, articulations are still placed into CC events as well?


I'll do this.
As an aside, I tested my Factory Cowbell artic map (which doesn't have any output events set as it's an EXS patch and doesn't need them..) and artic data was still attached to CC1 events.

I knew I'd find a use for that map..


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

chaosmeister said:


> Doesn't flashing the firmware kill the in-built WIFI? That would mean buying a 3rd party WIFI card. No deal breaker, but something to be aware off. Anyone happen to know the details?
> I'm considering flashing my own 2009 MacPro as well (followed by a processor upgrade), since I'd love to get the 10.4 update... Hence the question.


I cannot say I have ever heard of such a thing
I know plenty of Mac Pros that have been flashed for the upgrade and they work as stock
There would not be a proper market for it otherwise
The person I bought my straight 2012 machine from does it for a living too
And then sells 2009 units on as 2010 machines working and properly set up 

If you are unsure get advice first and do not try anything without proper information
As someone who works in IT, I would never recommend anyone 'test things' without the proper knowledge and understanding


----------



## chaosmeister

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I cannot say I have ever heard of such a thing
> I know plenty of Mac Pros that have been flashed for the upgrade and they work as stock
> There would not be a proper market for it otherwise
> The person I bought my straight 2012 machine from does it for a living too
> And then sells 2009 units on as 2010 machines working and properly set up
> 
> If you are unsure get advice first and do not try anything without proper information
> As someone who works in IT, I would never recommend anyone 'test things' without the proper knowledge and understanding


Okay, that sounds reassuring. Thanks for replying so quickly. Weird that I'd read about the wifi-thing then... Can't find it back right now otherwise I'd include a link to the pertinent page.
I know the upgrade can be reversed, so there's little harm in giving it a try on a quiet afternoon I suppose. Even if wifi dies, a new card then is only one overnight-order away... And with 2 more functional machines here, and 3 backups of the MacPro there's not a lot to worry about.


----------



## rconn

khollister said:


> The one thing I did discover last night is that if you record a track without initially using the Logic articulation switching to select an articulation (either by keyswitches or manually selecting an art via the dropdown), the recorded CC lanes do NOT have articulations embedded (which is presumable what procreative just tried). In this case the actual articulation being used as you play is whatever you manually selected through Kontakt, PLAY, etc.
> 
> However - if you use the Logic articulations to select your initial art (or vary it while recording with a key switch), you get that art on everything including CC's.
> 
> The only mystery for me at this point is why Alex & I don't get "phantom articulations" from the CC events and others appear to. I do recall one of the guys (forget who without going back a couple pages) was using CSS for his test so it could be differences in the library scripting. I'm going to find that post now.
> 
> UPDATE: So @rconn was the user who posted the screenshot of the event list with the articulations on the CC1 events and experienced problems. He was also using CSS with articulation switching via CC58 (I don't have CSS or CS2 and didn't realize they even supported a UACC-like thing).
> 
> Sean (@resound) posted the video with large reductions in CC1 screwing with SCS articulations. That would seem to be a different problem, and I could not replicate his experience with my copy of SCS.




@khollister and @Alex Fraser

The jumping articulations might not affect all libraries like they do with CSS. I especially notice it with Sustain and Sustain Advanced. The notes are set to Sustain Advanced which applies a smoother more realistic legato transition while the CC1 events cause the VI to ping-pong in-between notes back to Sustain. This interrupts the VI's ability to apply the correct transition. You will also notice this with short articulations as well.

I suspect if you do the same track without articulation sets and compare, you might find that there is an audible difference on certain articulations.


----------



## Living Fossil

ptram said:


> I think you can't use two keys. You can, however, use a key to select the X-Axis, and the Keyswitch Velocity to select the Y-Axis. Works great for me.



Thanks, the problem is that there are some patches which basically force you to use to different keys.
(E.g. when A-1/B-1 switch between cresc. and decresc.)


----------



## rconn

Peter Schwartz said:


> Hey rconn, curious to know what you meant about articulations being delayed in ARTzID. You shouldn't ever have that problem. Now, there _were_ two times when bugs in Logic itself (10.3.0, and again in 10.3.2) caused this, but I issued a fix for it even though it wasn't a problem with ARTzID itself. Hopefully you got that fix. But that aside, as of 10.3.3 and especially as of 10.4 you shouldn't ever experience delayed articulation selection with ARTzID. If you're experiencing this kind of issue for some reason though, write to me at the support email and we can troubleshoot it.



Even though your script helped, it didn't eliminate it. Essentially, I have to use CC messages assigned to the ArtIds and not keyswitches. If I use the keyswitch noteOn the executed articulation will show as selected in Kontakt but the note will be the previous selected articulation. It catches back up on the next note. It's like the noteOn event for the keyswitch doesn't fire fast enough to set the articulation before the note noteOn event fires.

This doesn't just happen with ARTzID...this also happens with the new Logic articulation sets when set to output keyswitches. It could be my system...and midi setup in Logic...but I doubt it as it isn't a consistent issue.


----------



## rconn

Alex Fraser said:


> Yes, this is my understanding.
> It would be interesting to know if it's done this way by design? It's not an insurmountable issue - and we know how to fix it if conflicts occur (by removing or flattening CC curves.) It just seems like a strange design choice assuming it's not a bug.



It would be a strange design choice. I've messed around with this for the last day and a half. For my workflow this isn't going to work. I use a lot of CC's with Chris Hein's Solo Strings and this just borks everything up. I'm not going to tediously go through all the CC's between note events and change them to the articulation mapping...that is very time consuming. I do a mixture of playing and editing CCs and what Logic assigns to the articulation for these events is all over the place.

I'd rather deal with keyswitches in the midi track or utilizing a CC lane to communicate directly with the VI to change articulations. When Apple gets this figured out, I'll give it another go.

One thing I like better than ARTzId is that the reserved keyswitches can be different ranges and notes for each instrument, instead of being set at the environment level. Not a dig on ARTzId. Peter has done a great job with the limitations Logic posed.


----------



## Begfred

If someone familiar with JS scripting could do a scripter preset that would filter out articulationID data coming from CC that may be a temporary workaround. Anybody willing to try that? i'm dont script myself...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Begfred said:


> If someone familiar with JS scripting could do a scripter preset that would filter out articulationID data coming from CC that may be a temporary workaround. Anybody willing to try that? i'm dont script myself...


I had a look myself to see if I could hack an existing script. (I’m no coder.)
As far as I can see, there’s no API hook to capture the articulation event. I might have missed it but I couldn’t find it in Apple’s documentation. 

Perhaps a script wizard might know better.


----------



## Begfred

Alex Fraser said:


> I had a look myself to see if I could hack an existing script. (I’m no coder.)
> As far as I can see, there’s no API hook to capture the articulation event. I might have missed it but I couldn’t find it in Apple’s documentation.
> 
> Perhaps a script wizard might know better.



It's been a long time since i messed up with Scripter, but i have made some script that deals with articulationID in the past.

You can use event code like ''if (event.articultaionID == 1)...
But in that case i dont know or remember how to filter it out.


----------



## Peter Schwartz

rconn said:


> Even though your script helped, it didn't eliminate it. Essentially, I have to use CC messages assigned to the ArtIds and not keyswitches. If I use the keyswitch noteOn the executed articulation will show as selected in Kontakt but the note will be the previous selected articulation. It catches back up on the next note. It's like the noteOn event for the keyswitch doesn't fire fast enough to set the articulation before the note noteOn event fires.



Thanks for your reply. The behavior you described is strange, because the script(s) work flawlessly, and what you described such as "the keyswitch doesn't fire fast enough" or "catching up" just can't happen.

Also, it doesn't matter if you're using CC's or MIDI notes to select articulations live, because under the hood the 'mechanics' of how they effect articulation switching is exactly the same.

If you would, please write to me at support =at= skiswitcher.com with details of the exact patch(es) you're having trouble with, and which script you're using.


----------



## clisma

chaosmeister said:


> Okay, that sounds reassuring. Thanks for replying so quickly. Weird that I'd read about the wifi-thing then... Can't find it back right now otherwise I'd include a link to the pertinent page.
> I know the upgrade can be reversed, so there's little harm in giving it a try on a quiet afternoon I suppose. Even if wifi dies, a new card then is only one overnight-order away... And with 2 more functional machines here, and 3 backups of the MacPro there's not a lot to worry about.


Actually, you are not wrong. Your WiFi can indeed stop working if you have an unsupported card. I checked into this same thing last night. The unsupported WiFi card is made by Broadcom: BCM4321. If this is what you have in your 2009 Mac Pro, then it will no longer work. I happen to have a BCM4322 in mine and am therefore safe to upgrade, as I understand it. Also, there might be other unsupported cards, so it’s worth checking the net to find a list.

Follow the last post in this link to find out what card you have. It uses the Terminal so watch what you type, but it’s safe. https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/64064/how-do-i-find-out-what-wireless-card-my-mac-has


----------



## procreative

clisma said:


> Actually, you are not wrong. Your WiFi can indeed stop working if you have an unsupported card. I checked into this same thing last night. The unsupported WiFi card is made by Broadcom: BCM4321. If this is what you have in your 2009 Mac Pro, then it will no longer work. I happen to have a BCM4322 in mine and am therefore safe to upgrade, as I understand it. Also, there might be other unsupported cards, so it’s worth checking the net to find a list.
> 
> Follow the last post in this link to find out what card you have. It uses the Terminal so watch what you type, but it’s safe. https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/64064/how-do-i-find-out-what-wireless-card-my-mac-has



There are a million places to buy replacement wifi cards if that is the case and they are pretty cheap. I have 3 Mac Pro 2009's, two were flashed by a UK Mac seller that does this (one was done to upgrade the CPU, the other was bought as a refurbed unit sold as a 2010) I also did one machine myself and providing you follow the instructions its easy.

2 worked fine with their existing WiFi cards, the other never had one fitted from the factory, but I bought one and fitted myself (again a YouTube video helped as you need to do a bit of disassembly to get to the connections and the wires need to be done correctly).


----------



## procreative

rconn said:


> Even though your script helped, it didn't eliminate it. Essentially, I have to use CC messages assigned to the ArtIds and not keyswitches. If I use the keyswitch noteOn the executed articulation will show as selected in Kontakt but the note will be the previous selected articulation. It catches back up on the next note. It's like the noteOn event for the keyswitch doesn't fire fast enough to set the articulation before the note noteOn event fires.
> 
> This doesn't just happen with ARTzID...this also happens with the new Logic articulation sets when set to output keyswitches. It could be my system...and midi setup in Logic...but I doubt it as it isn't a consistent issue.



I can only say I have never had this happen to me with ArtzID. I had this happen with Art Conductor which is why I switched. The whole point of Artz ID was that there was no chasing or delay/skipped notes.

I reckon you have something set wrong in Logic. Maybe to rule things out you should try temporarily moving your prefs file and checking your environment setup. To me sounds like something is blocking the data, maybe an environment cable is set wrong or the IAC Port is the issue.


----------



## Vik

Alex Fraser said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like the articulation ID (and therefore it's associated midi output) is attached to every midi message sent to the VI.


If that's the case, we should see articulations attached to CC events in the Event list. Are anyone seeing this?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Vik said:


> If that's the case, we should see articulations attached to CC events in the Event list. Are anyone seeing this?


Yep. If this is what you mean.


----------



## ptram

Living Fossil said:


> the problem is that there are some patches which basically force you to use to different keys.
> (E.g. when A-1/B-1 switch between cresc. and decresc.)


I see. I've always considered selecting one of the A/B slots inside a matrix cell something different than 'selecting articulations'. In my way of viewing it, this is choosing an alternative or nuance of the same articulation. Therefore, I'm always ready to us a CC (#20) to switch or crossfade between the two.

Can’t you move patches that you do not need to crossfade out of the A/B slots, right into a matrix cell?

Paolo


----------



## Alex Fraser

Begfred said:


> It's been a long time since i messed up with Scripter, but i have made some script that deals with articulationID in the past.
> 
> You can use event code like ''if (event.articultaionID == 1)...
> But in that case i dont know or remember how to filter it out.


..but thinking about it...
It's the *midi output* triggered by the internal articulation ID mapping process that Kontakt is reacting to, not the articulation ID itself or original CC1 event.

So presumably you can't "block" or filter the data before reaching Kontakt without blocking the identical events triggered from intended keyswitching.

I don't know. I'm out of my depth. Time to stop fiddling.


----------



## Peter Schwartz

@rconn
I just finished putting my Cinematic Studio Strings script (ARTz•ID) through its paces. This script is a good acid test because out of all the scripts, this one needs to send the most data to switch between certain articulations. Result: articulations switch 100% fine, working exactly as expected. So I'm quite mystified as to the cause of the delay in switching you're experiencing.


----------



## Peter Schwartz

@Alex Fraser, you are correct. Articulation ID values are internal-Logic-specific. There is no way to transmit the ID itself, thus no need to filter them. In an Articulation Set, an ID instigates the generation of a MIDI event that the patch normally expects to see to change to a certain articulation.


----------



## gpax

Alex Fraser said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like the articulation ID (and therefore it's associated midi output) is attached to every midi message sent to the VI. So, it's sent with every note-on event (which would be the desired outcome) but also *every* CC event (such as CC1, which would not!)
> 
> So if you recorded a "longs" articulation whilst riding the mod wheel and later decided the notes should be "short" - the CC1 values you left in the editor from your initial performance will still be sending "long" articulation ID triggers to your VI, causing the potential conflict.


Or, the inverse, where I later add in the longs (with mod) after the short notes, and then all notes previously recorded are then weirdly impacted by ID triggers trying to "ping pong" articulations, as rconn indicated. In the list editor, you can see these erroneous triggers


Alex Fraser said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like the articulation ID (and therefore it's associated midi output) is attached to every midi message sent to the VI. So, it's sent with every note-on event (which would be the desired outcome) but also *every* CC event (such as CC1, which would not!)
> 
> So if you recorded a "longs" articulation whilst riding the mod wheel and later decided the notes should be "short" - the CC1 values you left in the editor from your initial performance will still be sending "long" articulation ID triggers to your VI, causing the potential conflict.
> 
> Have I got that right? I'm pretty sure it's been touched upon earlier.
> 
> The key issue is, there doesn't appear to be a way from stopping the articulation events being attached and sent via, say CC1. There needs to be some sort of filter in place that removes articulation triggers from CC events that *haven't* been defined as output triggers in the articulation editor.
> 
> Wow, that's a mouthful.


To summarize your summary: I’m fine as long as I don’t touch cc 1 at some point. More specifically, I cannot have any "curved" or even slightly nudged CC 1 date under previously played shorts notes which are adjacent to the longer notes, as this will create havoc on those notes as well. 

But also, if I go back and edit a curve, for instance, under a long note (or short for that matter), the articulation(s) spanning the length of that curves will immediately disappear from the editor, replaced by the “-“ as rconn indicated previously. Just looking at the list view, it seems that I cannot have any gaps between the articulations either. 

So, I then have to go back in and repopulate that articulation column manually with all the disappeared articulations. 

But relative to this, I’m also seeing instances where, between short notes, whatever dynamics may be impacting everything (I’m guessing here), are triggering a rogue articulation, which I've summarized as the initial articulation used when first laying the part down. I have not used UACC until now, and of course the inherent mapping of a default articulation that keeps trying to make an appearance after swapping these out runs counter-intuitive to the "traditional" keyswitch approach. 

Sorry for the lay person's explanation, as I have not looked inside the list editor in some time (don’t tell anyone I completed two levels of Logic training many years ago, lol).


----------



## Alex Fraser

@Peter Schwartz - Thanks for the clarification.
I'm going to put this one to rest then and await any developments from Apple.


----------



## Alex Fraser

gpax said:


> Or, the inverse, where I later add in the longs (with mod) after the short notes, and then all notes previously recorded are then weirdly impacted by ID triggers trying to "ping pong" articulations, as rconn indicated. In the list editor, you can see these erroneous triggers
> 
> To summarize your summary: I’m fine as long as I don’t touch cc 1 at some point. More specifically, I cannot have any "curved" or even slightly nudged CC 1 date under previously played shorts notes which are adjacent to the longer notes, as this will create havoc on those notes as well.
> 
> But also, if I go back and edit a curve, for instance, under a long note (or short for that matter), the articulation(s) spanning the length of that curves will immediately disappear from the editor, replaced by the “-“ as rconn indicated previously. Just looking at the list view, it seems that I cannot have any gaps between the articulations either.
> 
> So, I then have to go back in and repopulate that articulation column manually with all the disappeared articulations.
> 
> But relative to this, I’m also seeing instances where, between short notes, whatever dynamics may be impacting everything (I’m guessing here), are triggering a rogue articulation, which I've summarized as the initial articulation used when first laying the part down. I have not used UACC until now, and of course the inherent mapping of a default articulation that keeps trying to make an appearance after swapping these out runs counter-intuitive to the "traditional" keyswitch approach.
> 
> Sorry for the lay person's explanation, as I have not looked inside the list editor in some time (don’t tell anyone I completed two levels of Logic training many years ago, lol).


Thanks for the detailed notes.
So as I read it, all your problems would disappear if Logic stopped attaching articulation triggers to events that are *not defined in the articulation map* , like CC1.
Seems like such a small fix to make.


----------



## chaosmeister

clisma said:


> Actually, you are not wrong. Your WiFi can indeed stop working if you have an unsupported card. I checked into this same thing last night. The unsupported WiFi card is made by Broadcom: BCM4321. If this is what you have in your 2009 Mac Pro, then it will no longer work. I happen to have a BCM4322 in mine and am therefore safe to upgrade, as I understand it. Also, there might be other unsupported cards, so it’s worth checking the net to find a list.
> 
> Follow the last post in this link to find out what card you have. It uses the Terminal so watch what you type, but it’s safe. https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/64064/how-do-i-find-out-what-wireless-card-my-mac-has



Dang, I love the internet  You totally made my day -- I could have been googling for this for ages. Seems I also have the BCM4322. That's good news... Thanks a million for saving me time & sparing me anxiety .

In case others read this and are interested:
Launch Terminal and type "ioreg -r -n AR" (without quotes).
Look for a line like "IOName" = "pci14e4,432b"
14e4 is the vendor ID and 432b the device ID of the wifi card in your Mac.
Go to https://pci-ids.ucw.cz
Pick "PCI devices" at the top of the page and look up the vendor ID. Click the number (14e4 in my case) to go to the page with all devices by this vendor. Look up the device ID (432b in my case). Done.
Also see http://dosdude1.com/sierrapatch.html under "Known Issues".


----------



## khollister

rconn said:


> @khollister and @Alex Fraser
> 
> The jumping articulations might not affect all libraries like they do with CSS. I especially notice it with Sustain and Sustain Advanced. The notes are set to Sustain Advanced which applies a smoother more realistic legato transition while the CC1 events cause the VI to ping-pong in-between notes back to Sustain. This interrupts the VI's ability to apply the correct transition. You will also notice this with short articulations as well.
> 
> I suspect if you do the same track without articulation sets and compare, you might find that there is an audible difference on certain articulations.



Here is what I have figured out (at least with Spitfire):

The only way to get the CC messages in Event List to appear to not send articulation data is to record the track prior to selecting an articulation set.
Once you "turn on" the Logic articulation feature by selecting a map, you will see articulations associated with CC messages
However, even if the CC message shows "----", it appears to be sending a value on CC32 anyway since the Kontakt GUI stills bounces back to Long or whatever the initially selected articulation was) after showing the articulation switch.
This also happens with keyswitch outputs, not just UACC
I have experimented with several Spitfire libs and NOVO (keyswitch mode) and while the CC1 articulation changes are there, it hasn't had any noticeable effect other than what the Kontakt GUI displays.


----------



## khollister

gpax said:


> Or, the inverse, where I later add in the longs (with mod) after the short notes, and then all notes previously recorded are then weirdly impacted by ID triggers trying to "ping pong" articulations, as rconn indicated. In the list editor, you can see these erroneous triggers
> 
> To summarize your summary: I’m fine as long as I don’t touch cc 1 at some point. More specifically, I cannot have any "curved" or even slightly nudged CC 1 date under previously played shorts notes which are adjacent to the longer notes, as this will create havoc on those notes as well.
> 
> But also, if I go back and edit a curve, for instance, under a long note (or short for that matter), the articulation(s) spanning the length of that curves will immediately disappear from the editor, replaced by the “-“ as rconn indicated previously. Just looking at the list view, it seems that I cannot have any gaps between the articulations either.
> 
> So, I then have to go back in and repopulate that articulation column manually with all the disappeared articulations.
> 
> But relative to this, I’m also seeing instances where, between short notes, whatever dynamics may be impacting everything (I’m guessing here), are triggering a rogue articulation, which I've summarized as the initial articulation used when first laying the part down. I have not used UACC until now, and of course the inherent mapping of a default articulation that keeps trying to make an appearance after swapping these out runs counter-intuitive to the "traditional" keyswitch approach.
> 
> Sorry for the lay person's explanation, as I have not looked inside the list editor in some time (don’t tell anyone I completed two levels of Logic training many years ago, lol).



You are setting "Locked to UACC" in the Spitfire instruments, correct? If you forget to do that, all kind of weird shit happens


----------



## procreative

So I did some testing with CSS. Recording with the Mod Wheel either moved or not inputs CC1 data, whatever is the default chosen Articulation seems to be assigned to the CC1 controller events as noted before.

However if I go back in and change various notes to whatever articulations and play back, the notes play the correct articulations. It seems the CC1 data is not affecting playback other than controlling Dynamics.

Have not tried with a UACC or traditional note keyswitch library yet.

I really like ArtzID and spent an age setting up mappings for 90% of my libraries, plus some have some special rules for Velocity/Mod Wheel positions custom scripted by Peter so unsure what to do...

Do I bother using this or ArtzID. Both pretty much do the same thing. However the Logic system shows the articulation names in the Event editor which is nice.

By the way I decided to unclick the "Controller" button in the event editor so as to filter out viewing the Modwheel data from view.

Maybe there is a script that could divert CC1 data from triggering Articulations, or maybe its a bug that can be fixed. But so far it does not look like it affects playback.


----------



## resonate

Nothing is broken hardware-wise. It's just the software issue, Sierra does not have a driver for wifi chip used in 2009 mac pros, and the newer macs use different chip. That's all.


chaosmeister said:


> Doesn't flashing the firmware kill the in-built WIFI? That would mean buying a 3rd party WIFI card. No deal breaker, but something to be aware off. Anyone happen to know the details?
> I'm considering flashing my own 2009 MacPro as well (followed by a processor upgrade), since I'd love to get the 10.4 update... Hence the question.


----------



## khollister

procreative said:


> So I did some testing with CSS. Recording with the Mod Wheel either moved or not inputs CC1 data, whatever is the default chosen Articulation seems to be assigned to the CC1 controller events as noted before.
> 
> However if I go back in and change various notes to whatever articulations and play back, the notes play the correct articulations. It seems the CC1 data is not affecting playback other than controlling Dynamics.
> 
> Have not tried with a UACC or traditional note keyswitch library yet.
> 
> I really like ArtzID and spent an age setting up mappings for 90% of my libraries, plus some have some special rules for Velocity/Mod Wheel positions custom scripted by Peter so unsure what to do...
> 
> Do I bother using this or ArtzID. Both pretty much do the same thing. However the Logic system shows the articulation names in the Event editor which is nice.
> 
> By the way I decided to unclick the "Controller" button in the event editor so as to filter out viewing the Modwheel data from view.
> 
> Maybe there is a script that could divert CC1 data from triggering Articulations, or maybe its a bug that can be fixed. But so far it does not look like it affects playback.



This is exactly what I experience with the Spitfire libraries I have tried so far as well as with NOVO, which is key switched (and which Art Conductor supplied a map for). Furthermore, like with Expression Maps in Cubase, the key switch notes are not displayed in score view. I realize some folks are having bizarre results from the articulations being sent in all CC events rather than just the CC number specified in the map, but so far for me it seems to be working fine. I will submit a bug report to Apple anyway and I am going to contact Spitfire to see if they have any conclusions yet (I believe most of them are Logic users)


----------



## gpax

khollister said:


> You are setting "Locked to UACC" in the Spitfire instruments, correct? If you forget to do that, all kind of weird shit happens


Yes, that is correct. I am actually using Marc's new ART scripts, which require locking to UACC for the Spitfire libraries; this is the first time I've utilized UACC for changes, and I am won over (the LPX 10.4 glitches aside).


----------



## jtnyc

procreative said:


> There are a million places to buy replacement wifi cards if that is the case and they are pretty cheap. I have 3 Mac Pro 2009's, two were flashed by a UK Mac seller that does this (one was done to upgrade the CPU, the other was bought as a refurbed unit sold as a 2010) I also did one machine myself and providing you follow the instructions its easy.
> 
> 2 worked fine with their existing WiFi cards, the other never had one fitted from the factory, but I bought one and fitted myself (again a YouTube video helped as you need to do a bit of disassembly to get to the connections and the wires need to be done correctly).



Does anyone know if an early 2008 MacPro can be "flashed" (not sure exactly what that is) to run Sierra?


----------



## ptram

I may have found a bug in the articulation system. There was a CC0 message that was sent just before an articulation change. It didn't matter how I programmed the desired articulation message (CC0, CC4, CC33…) – the ghost CC0 message was there.

This happened even after restarting Logic two times.

Then, it disappeared, without me doing anything on the sequence, the articulation map, or the plugin.

I'll keep exploring.

Paolo


----------



## Peter Schwartz

procreative said:


> Do I bother using this or ArtzID. Both pretty much do the same thing.



I'd like to suggest that you keep using ARTz•ID. One of the main reasons is this: the features of Articulation Sets are not fully developed enough to handle libraries such as CSS, Vienna, or Capsule which require more than one type of MIDI event to invoke articulation selection.

If you were to try and re-create the features of (say) an ARTzID script you're currently using to drive an everyday keyswitching patch, well, that's easy enough to do and it should work just fine. But it _does_ mean "rolling your own" from scratch. You'll have to enter all of the keyswitch inputs, outputs, and all of the names too. None of it hard to do, but you'll basically be duplicating exactly the functionality you already have with ARTzID.

That said, Articulation Sets have the ability to add notation markup to your notes based on your articulation selections (which is like  wow). But if the patch you want to drive with the Set requires anything more than single keyswitch, CC, or program change message to switch articulations, you'll won't be able to utilize the auto-markup feature anyway.

And just to make sure no one misconstrues my comments, I am a HUGE fan of this new system. I love its design philosophy and it's already useful as-is for simple switching scenarios (and even some rather complex ones). But it's not ready to drive every kind of patch on the market. It still has a way to go. @procreative, or anyone else interested, you can read my further thoughts on this which I recently posted on the website. Link is in my sig.


----------



## clisma

jtnyc said:


> Does anyone know if an early 2008 MacPro can be "flashed" (not sure exactly what that is) to run Sierra?


I believe it is possible with the software offered at this link. Fair warning: I am not affiliated with it and have never tried it 

http://dosdude1.com/software.html


----------



## jtnyc

clisma said:


> I believe it is possible with the software offered at this link. Fair warning: I am not affiliated with it and have never tried it
> 
> http://dosdude1.com/software.html



Thanks - I think I'll wait and watch for a bit -


----------



## mc_deli

Great thread


----------



## rhye

I have been playing with this new update and while it's pretty cool (love the EQ's and Chromaverb) the articulation feature still has a long way to go and it's nowhere near as powerful as the Combinatrix script in ArtzId. That thing is just amazingly versatile.

Btw @Peter Schwartz, will this new update remove the issue of the annoying Articulation 0! problem caused by Logic not remembering the last articulation when changing tracks?


----------



## galactic orange

clisma said:


> I believe it is possible with the software offered at this link. Fair warning: I am not affiliated with it and have never tried it
> 
> http://dosdude1.com/software.html


I am thinking about doing this to run Sierra on my outdated MBP, but it looks like the catch is that you have to keep SIP disabled in the case of my machine (2009 C2D) to keep running Sierra. That might not be the case for a Mac Pro, in which case you'd just re-enable SIP after the Sierra installation.

I'm not sure what the security risk is, and I only found out about even the possibility of doing this today. But I'm inclined to try it if I can use 10.4 and keep compatibility with my main system which is using 10.4 already.


----------



## Vik

galactic orange said:


> That might not be the case for a Mac Pro, in which case you'd just re-enable SIP after the Sierra installation.


Why is it OK to reenable SIP on a Mac Pro but not on a MBP?


----------



## Peter Schwartz

rhye said:


> Btw @Peter Schwartz, will this new update remove the issue of the annoying Articulation 0! problem caused by Logic not remembering the last articulation when changing tracks?




(Stay tuned...)


----------



## stevenson-again

rconn said:


> So I have been working with articulation sets for CSS. Mapping keyswitches through to CC58. Here is an interesting find. All works as expected until you start using Modulation (CC1) or any CC for that matter. If you modulate while recording, the current active articulation id is assigned to the CC event. If you draw it in after the fact it will be set to "-", which produces unpredictable behavior by defaulting to the first articulation listed in your articulation set.
> 
> Why is this an issue? Well, say you record a line in spiccato and then modulate during the phrase and then go back and decide that you'd rather have all the notes as staccatissimo. You select the notes in the piano editor and change them to the new articulation. Play back and hear some rather weird stuff happening. Turns out the modulation events are still set to the old articulation and are causing your instrument to switch to that articulation. So you have to go to the event list and select all the notes AND cc messages and set their articulation to the same one. This could get very tedious and cost a lot of time.
> 
> Right now, I view this as a bug. If its the way the developers intended it, please include a way to turn it off and just pass CC messages through untouched.



Have checked whether your articulation mode is set to "permanent" or "momentary"? the situation you are describing sounds a lot like "momentary" so at the note end (I presume) there is a switch back to your original articulation. 

I haven't had any problems of this nature, but I am only using permanent, with the artic IDs switching program changes via MoL on my PC. I was simply testing to see if they could replicate how I was using program changes. They can but I can't choose articulations from the track parameters box like I could with program changes because I use midi instruments and midi multi-instruments. Otherwise the articulations work almost exactly as I expect them to.


----------



## jonathanwright

Unless I'm missing a setting somewhere, it looks like CC data isn't passed on between articulations if you're using the MIDI keyswitch method (for Play).

Using the script provided by Peter in ArtZID seems to fix it.


----------



## procreative

Although in my tests the CC data that has recorded with Articulation info does not seem to affect playback, I can see the Kontakt GUI flickering constantly. It perturbs me seeing all that extra data and I wonder if its going to have a detrimental effect on a large project.

Hopefully its something that can be fixed. But if not maybe an environment guru [someone like Peter...] might have a way to filter out the CC data from sending articulation IDs?


----------



## Alex Fraser

procreative said:


> Although in my tests the CC data that has recorded with Articulation info does not seem to affect playback, I can see the Kontakt GUI flickering constantly. It perturbs me seeing all that extra data and I wonder if its going to have a detrimental effect on a large project.


Exactly this.


----------



## khollister

procreative said:


> Although in my tests the CC data that has recorded with Articulation info does not seem to affect playback, I can see the Kontakt GUI flickering constantly. It perturbs me seeing all that extra data and I wonder if its going to have a detrimental effect on a large project.
> 
> Hopefully its something that can be fixed. But if not maybe an environment guru [someone like Peter...] might have a way to filter out the CC data from sending articulation IDs?



While I completely agree that it would be desirable if Logic didn't do this, I think the concerns about an additional CC or note-on (in the case of keyswitches) event causing overloading on Logic or Kontakt is misplaced. That seems a little like someone saying "I would really like to ride the vibrato CC for those string tracks but I'm worried the extra CC messages will screw up Kontakt" or "I would add some runs and embellishments to those high string parts but that might be too many notes for Logic to handle". I don't like it but I think we may be entering tinfoil hat territory worrying about what amounts to another lane of CC info.

Now if this is actually screwing up playback (as a few have run into with various libs) that is a completely different matter. 

In the case of Spitfire (which are my main orchestral libraries that need articulation management), they are a Logic house and if there is a problem I imagine they will be all over it. I may contact them just to see if they are testing this stuff.


----------



## procreative

khollister said:


> While I completely agree that it would be desirable if Logic didn't do this, I think the concerns about an additional CC or note-on (in the case of keyswitches) event causing overloading on Logic or Kontakt is misplaced. That seems a little like someone saying "I would really like to ride the vibrato CC for those string tracks but I'm worried the extra CC messages will screw up Kontakt" or "I would add some runs and embellishments to those high string parts but that might be too many notes for Logic to handle". I don't like it but I think we may be entering tinfoil hat territory worrying about what amounts to another lane of CC info.
> 
> Now if this is actually screwing up playback (as a few have run into with various libs) that is a completely different matter.
> 
> In the case of Spitfire (which are my main orchestral libraries that need articulation management), they are a Logic house and if there is a problem I imagine they will be all over it. I may contact them just to see if they are testing this stuff.



You may be right. I just worry that the constant triggering inside Kontakt across many instances *might* have an impact.

I have also yet to do intensive tests over whether adjusting CCs afterwards does anything weird.


----------



## khollister

procreative said:


> You may be right. I just worry that the constant triggering inside Kontakt across many instances *might* have an impact.
> 
> I have also yet to do intensive tests over whether adjusting CCs afterwards does anything weird.



I did a couple simple tests where I modified a "played in" CC1 lane as well as deleting the whole lane and drew in a replacement - no issues with the Spitfire stuff so far


----------



## Matt Riley

@Peter Schwartz - Can SkiSwither 3 be used to with Articulation Sets to add notation markup to notes? Or is there a way to easily convert midi channel to articulation id?


----------



## Peter Schwartz

Hi Matt,

They say timing is everything... Just as I saw the email notification for your post I was working on exactly this. The answer to your question is: 

More details to come once I make sure I'm not dreaming...


----------



## rconn

stevenson-again said:


> Have checked whether your articulation mode is set to "permanent" or "momentary"? the situation you are describing sounds a lot like "momentary" so at the note end (I presume) there is a switch back to your original articulation.
> 
> I haven't had any problems of this nature, but I am only using permanent, with the artic IDs switching program changes via MoL on my PC. I was simply testing to see if they could replicate how I was using program changes. They can but I can't choose articulations from the track parameters box like I could with program changes because I use midi instruments and midi multi-instruments. Otherwise the articulations work almost exactly as I expect them to.


 They are all set to permanent. The situation only arises when you want to change the originally recorded articulation or draw in mod changes later.


----------



## rconn

Peter Schwartz said:


> Thanks for your reply. The behavior you described is strange, because the script(s) work flawlessly, and what you described such as "the keyswitch doesn't fire fast enough" or "catching up" just can't happen.
> 
> Also, it doesn't matter if you're using CC's or MIDI notes to select articulations live, because under the hood the 'mechanics' of how they effect articulation switching is exactly the same.
> 
> If you would, please write to me at support =at= skiswitcher.com with details of the exact patch(es) you're having trouble with, and which script you're using.


@Peter Schwartz I'll spend some time this evening recreating the delay with both the built in Logic Articulation Sets and ARTzID. I'll record what I am doing so you can see. I have been through the setup for ARTzID sooo many times trying to fix this. At a certain point you realize you are spending too much time on the tech and its eating into the creativity time.


----------



## Peter Schwartz

@rconn 
I'm sorry to hear that you've been spending so much time trying to troubleshoot this problem. As I mentioned, the only known cases of this behavior were caused by bugs introduced in two Logic updates (10.3.0 and 10.3.2). Despite the cause being a bug in Logic's coding, I was able to issue a fix. (I sent out notifications to my customer base twice about this, which I hope you received). Every case of delayed articulation switching was solved by this fix. And the release notes for Logic 10.3.3 even mentioned the fix (a Scripter bug). So...

If by any chance you're still working on 10.3.0 or 10.3.2, I know exactly what the problem is and it can be solved.

But I take it you're working on 10.4 now, and I'm just not seeing this behavior. So... by all means, yes, please send me information or a screencapture video (or whatever you like) that demonstrates the problem. There's no need to include Articulation Set behavior in your correspondence. Let's focus on how ARTz•ID is behaving first and we can take it from there.

Send details to: support =at= skiswitcher =dot= com


----------



## Heinigoldstein

SkiSwitcher and ARTsID made my life much easier in the last years and the "combinatrix" script is still way ahead of what the Logic system can do. 

On the other hand Logics articulation system will be great, when the few bugs (randomly late switching, cc data with articulations....... ) might have resolved soon. It is more easy to set up and has some advantages too. 

But since Peter is a great guy and a scripting genius, I hope he might come up with some kind of "next generation" ARTsID, based on and expanding the Logic system !?!


----------



## Russell Moran

"So I have been working with articulation sets for CSS. Mapping keyswitches through to CC58. Here is an interesting find. All works as expected until you start using Modulation (CC1) or any CC for that matter. If you modulate while recording, the current active articulation id is assigned to the CC event. If you draw it in after the fact it will be set to "-", which produces unpredictable behavior by defaulting to the first articulation listed in your articulation set."

Try this: there’s a new default setting to autoselect automation parameters that you can disable here:

From menu, select: Mix > Autoselect Automation Parameter in Read mode.

rz


----------



## Peter Schwartz

@Heinigoldstein , you sure know how to make a girl blush... LOL! So... Yes, there are "things" in the works. If they work, I think they'll make everyone very happy. Fingers crossed...


----------



## MarcelM

so do i get this right? its working for some people without any glitches but not for others?

havent had the time yet to create any maps (and also didnt buy yet), but i was ready to go soon


----------



## khollister

Heroix said:


> so do i get this right? its working for some people without any glitches but not for others?
> 
> havent had the time yet to create any maps (and also didnt buy yet), but i was ready to go soon


That seems to be about the size of it. Of course there are a ton of variables like actual libraries, what the maps look like and even how we are testing.


----------



## procreative

Russell Moran said:


> Try this: there’s a new default setting to autoselect automation parameters that you can disable here:
> 
> From menu, select: Mix > Autoselect Automation Parameter in Read mode.
> 
> rz



That does not seem to make any difference.

Further testing shows that if you record notes without Modwheel, then draw in the data manually in the CC lane, the events show up with a "-". In my tests these dont affect playback (though neither do the CC events with articulations attached).

But it shows that its recording the events from external controllers that results in this data being generated. So there either needs to be a way to filter out listening for these Art IDs for CC input or a bug fix.

Not an expert, but any 3rd party fix would need to involve something in the Clicks and Ports layer as its the midi coming in from outside Logic that needs fixing. Otherwise its coding in the Articulations function in Logic that needs fixing.


----------



## anderslink

This was totally lost on me for a bit but you actually can "select all notes that use the same articulation" using the key command shift D. You can find it under Edit --> select --> same articulation.


----------



## procreative

Dont know if this is useless information. But if you record notes with an Articulation Set selected, make your changes to the Articulations, then deselect the Articulation set in the Track Inspector and record your Modwheel data on a second pass. If you switch the Articulation set back on, these CC1 events have a – instead of an articulation.

So its definitely something in the way the Articulation sets translate incoming midi into events.


----------



## Peter Schwartz

Heinigoldstein said:


> SkiSwitcher and ARTsID made my life much easier in the last years and the "combinatrix" script is still way ahead of what the Logic system can do.
> 
> On the other hand Logics articulation system will be great, when the few bugs (randomly late switching, cc data with articulations....... ) might have resolved soon. It is more easy to set up and has some advantages too.
> 
> But since Peter is a great guy and a scripting genius, I hope he might come up with some kind of "next generation" ARTsID, based on and expanding the Logic system !?!



Well, OK, since you were so nice in feeding me all of those compliments and stuff...

Yes, I will be rolling out a "next generation" version of SkiSwitcher as well as ARTz•ID. Since this is all very new a fresh, I'm going to take things slow and roll things out in stages. I don't want to turn this thread into an advertisement for my wares (I don't think that would be fair to the intent of this thread) so I'll just mention a few things for now...

• The first wave of the update will consist of a small set of Articulation Sets specifically designed for SkiSwitcher (all versions) that will be plug-and-play with your existing SkiSwitcher setups.

There will probably only be 3 Sets in total, and you'll only need to choose one. Each set is named for the type of device you switch articulations with (there will be a Keyboard version, a CC#32 version, and a program change message version). And you'll add one of these to each instrument channel.

• Once you add a Set to an instrument channel, you'll immediately gain the ability to assign articulation markings to each articulation.





When you record, these markings will automatically be added to your notes in the score editor (see image below). And changing an articulation marking in the score will actually change the articulation that the note plays. This is one of the most brilliant features of the 10.4 system which you'll be able to tap into with these sets.

• You'll be able to enter articulation names directly in the Articulation Sets Editor for each instrument, and they'll appear alongside each recorded note in the Event List. Changing an articulation is as easy as clicking on a name and selecting a new articulation from a drop down menu.











• The inherent functions of the Articulation Set you choose will completely eliminate the need for the Macro.

• The update will be free for all SkiSwitcher customers. I'll need some time to put together the documentation, so please be patient. [*EDIT*: It's ready! So if you're a SkiSwitcher customer and you want the new files & dox, send me an email via the SkiSwitcher website.]

• All articulation switching will continue to be handled by the SkiSwitcher scripts. So whatever problems you may be experiencing with Articulation Sets alone (late switching, etc.) will not be an issue.


----------



## khollister

procreative said:


> Dont know if this is useless information. But if you record notes with an Articulation Set selected, make your changes to the Articulations, then deselect the Articulation set in the Track Inspector and record your Modwheel data on a second pass. If you switch the Articulation set back on, these CC1 events have a – instead of an articulation.
> 
> So its definitely something in the way the Articulation sets translate incoming midi into events.



Hat to break it to you but the "--" events are also sending articulations, just the default (artID=1). In the case of Spitfire UACC this is Long. I can see after every articulation change via note-on, that the selected articulation in the Kontakt GUI goes back to Long. You can never get rid of this, however everything I have tried so far plays OK anyway.


----------



## rlw

procreative said:


> So I did some testing with CSS. Recording with the Mod Wheel either moved or not inputs CC1 data, whatever is the default chosen Articulation seems to be assigned to the CC1 controller events as noted before.
> 
> However if I go back in and change various notes to whatever articulations and play back, the notes play the correct articulations. It seems the CC1 data is not affecting playback other than controlling Dynamics.
> 
> Have not tried with a UACC or traditional note keyswitch library yet.
> 
> I really like ArtzID and spent an age setting up mappings for 90% of my libraries, plus some have some special rules for Velocity/Mod Wheel positions custom scripted by Peter so unsure what to do...
> 
> Do I bother using this or ArtzID. Both pretty much do the same thing. However the Logic system shows the articulation names in the Event editor which is nice.
> 
> By the way I decided to unclick the "Controller" button in the event editor so as to filter out viewing the Modwheel data from view.
> 
> Maybe there is a script that could divert CC1 data from triggering Articulations, or maybe its a bug that can be fixed. But so far it does not look like it affects playback.


I also like Peters Artzid and like you
Have set up extensive templates. For the moment I have just added the articulation names in the template sets but no input data. That makes it easier to do edits. This seems to avoid the issues mentioned here. My big issue is that I can’t use touch mode in the mixer for volume. Logic automation seems
to go crazy changing everything but volume. I don’t know yet how to mix. Every time I use touch or latch, Logic starts cycling thru various parameters or dynamics I didn’t even chose. I will add
A video tomorrow nite to show the automation issue I am struggling with.


----------



## rlw

khollister said:


> Hat to break it to you but the "--" events are also sending articulations, just the default (artID=1). In the case of Spitfire UACC this is Long. I can see after every articulation change via note-on, that the selected articulation in the Kontakt GUI goes back to Long. You can never get rid of this, however everything I have tried so far plays OK anyway.


You can change the UACC in spitfire from 1 to some other UACC number for Long’s and just eliminate the problem.


----------



## babylonwaves

rlw said:


> You can change the UACC in spitfire from 1 to some other UACC number for Long’s and just eliminate the problem.





khollister said:


> Hat to break it to you but the "--" events are also sending articulations, just the default (artID=1). In the case of Spitfire UACC this is Long. I can see after every articulation change via note-on, that the selected articulation in the Kontakt GUI goes back to Long. You can never get rid of this, however everything I have tried so far plays OK anyway.


as long as you only record on tracks which have an (working) articulation set assigned you will not see "-". if you record on a track which has no articulation set assigned, Logic assigns ID0 to every note you record. and this ID you cannot define in the articulation set editor. when logic plays back a note with ID0 it will choose the *first ID* in the articulation list instead. In your case, this is an articulation which makes your SF instrument switch to UACC1/Long. You can choose whatever you like here, depending on how you build your set. My advise: don't record on tracks which have note articulation set assigned and you will not end up in this situation.
hth


----------



## Alex Fraser

babylonwaves said:


> as long as you only record on tracks which have an (working) articulation set assigned you will not see "-". if you record on a track which has no articulation set assigned, Logic assigns ID0 to every note you record. and this ID you cannot define in the articulation set editor. when logic plays back a note with ID0 it will choose the *first ID* in the articulation list instead. In your case, this is an articulation which makes your SF instrument switch to UACC1/Long. You can choose whatever you like here, depending on how you build your set. My advise: don't record on tracks which have note articulation set assigned and you will not end up in this situation.
> hth


So, is the general consensus that Logic sending Art ID's (and associated articulation map midi outputs) with events like CC1 is actually by design? When the CC event isn't defined in the articulation map?

Edit: I just set up a Kontakt instance with multiple Spitfire patches on different midi channels. Having the articulation data attached to CC1 events was useful and enabled the multi to work as expected, with CC1 data being sent exactly where it needed to be. An unusual scenario for sure, but hey. The "arts attached to CC controllers" issue might be a design choice after all, unless I'm missing something.


----------



## babylonwaves

@Alex Fraser I'm not entire sure if I get what you say. From what I can see, you can for instance Mod Wheel data and it will work, independently of the articulation playing on the same track in this moment. this means, even though you can see an ArtID for the Modwheel data, it affects everything. Maybe all that also depends on how the instrument you control is programmed. My statement is in regards of Spitfire Chamber strings. I'd need to try if different libraries react differently in this case.
In any case, what Logic does, is independent on how you setup your instruments in kontakt. If you have multiple on one channel, they'll all react simultaneously to the same incoming MIDI events.


----------



## Alex Fraser

babylonwaves said:


> @Alex Fraser I'm not entire sure if I get what you say. From what I can see, you can for instance Mod Wheel data and it will work, independently of the articulation playing on the same track in this moment. this means, even though you can see an ArtID for the Modwheel data, it affects everything. Maybe all that also depends on how the instrument you control is programmed. My statement is in regards of Spitfire Chamber strings. I'd need to try if different libraries react differently in this case.
> In any case, what Logic does, is independent on how you setup your instruments in kontakt. If you have multiple on one channel, they'll all react simultaneously to the same incoming MIDI events.



(Excuse the full screen rush job)

Something akin to this? Each Spitfire patch here is assigned to a different midi channel, but can be "driven" from the same track. Having the artic data attached to CC1 in this instance enables the "correct" instrument to receive the data.

Granted, the same thing can be accomplished without articulation maps, but you'd have to set the midi channel for CC1 events manually, or keep switching the midi output of your controller. Or use a multitimbral setup etc etc.
It's certainly easier with the maps, regardless.

Of course, I fully accept I might be missing something. It won't be the first time.


----------



## jonathanwright

I'm having quite a few issues with articulations not 'taking' when playing back.

Sometimes on playback the arts will change correctly, other times they won't, I can't seem to figure out why.

The fix seems to be to select the track and play a note, which 'resets' things, but then a couple of plays later it all falls apart again.

As an example, I have a V2 track that is mostly spiccato, except for one note which is a trill, once the trill is triggered, it sticks and the spiccato won't trigger no matter how many times I play it through.

If I open Kontakt while it's playing and I see the spiccato trying to trigger, but always reverting back to the trill, as if the note is still playing.

So far this has happened in my Spitfire libraries and Cinematic Strings 2.

EDIT: After closing the project and reopening it, the arts trigger correctly when played though.

However it seems to get confused when I start navigating to different places in the track. At that point the triggering becomes unreliable.


----------



## procreative

Seems like there are some bugs to iron out? Hopefully soon...

I wondered if the first Articulation in a set was created with a "Not Set" or "-" and an ID of 0 whether this would ensure CC events recorded without an Articulation name? ArtzID has ID0 as its default.

Cannot try it right now as my work Mac is still on El Capitan and dont have the time to back up/upgrade right now...


----------



## khollister

procreative said:


> Seems like there are some bugs to iron out? Hopefully soon...
> 
> I wondered if the first Articulation in a set was created with a "Not Set" or "-" and an ID of 0 whether this would ensure CC events recorded without an Articulation name? ArtzID has ID0 as its default.
> 
> Cannot try it right now as my work Mac is still on El Capitan and dont have the time to back up/upgrade right now...


It appears that "Not Set" or "--" is ID1, not zero - it drives the articulation in the Spitfire GUI to Long.

I finally managed to get a test sequence in SSS to screw up this morning - had a run of short notes followed by a sustain. Had the run set to pizz and the sustain to trill. Drew in modulation. was playing fine and then the last note of the run suddenly changed to Long. I tried setting the articulation of the mod events between the last and current note to pizz but no joy. I got the region to play correctly only after setting all the CC1 events from the beginning to the note-on of the problem note to pizz - then it played correctly again.

I have tried recreating this since and cannot get the same erroneous result. Either the problem is intermittent (great ) or the trigger is very subtle.

I wonder if this is due to some bug that surfaces because I'm using UACC for articulation and it gets crossed up with the "real" CC's? I should probably lock the Spitfire articulation to KS and see if it eventually happens again. Maybe that is a workaround until this gets resolved? Since it appears that the key switch notes do not appear in the editors (most importantly the score view), I wouldn't be adverse to that as an indefinite solution.

Or I could just go back to Cubase and expression maps.I do like Logic though and Alchemy and Sculpture are handy.


----------



## Alex Fraser

khollister said:


> It appears that "Not Set" or "--" is ID1, not zero - it drives the articulation in the Spitfire GUI to Long.
> 
> I finally managed to get a test sequence in SSS to screw up this morning - had a run of short notes followed by a sustain. Had the run set to pizz and the sustain to trill. Drew in modulation. was playing fine and then the last note of the run suddenly changed to Long. I tried setting the articulation of the mod events between the last and current note to pizz but no joy. I got the region to play correctly only after setting all the CC1 events from the beginning to the note-on of the problem note to pizz - then it played correctly again.
> 
> I have tried recreating this since and cannot get the same erroneous result. Either the problem is intermittent (great ) or the trigger is very subtle.
> 
> I wonder if this is due to some bug that surfaces because I'm using UACC for articulation and it gets crossed up with the "real" CC's? I should probably lock the Spitfire articulation to KS and see if it eventually happens again. Maybe that is a workaround until this gets resolved? Since it appears that the key switch notes do not appear in the editors (most importantly the score view), I wouldn't be adverse to that as an indefinite solution.
> 
> Or I could just go back to Cubase and expression maps.I do like Logic though and Alchemy and Sculpture are handy.


So many variances at play. I guess the best thing is to see what methods work with each library. At least we have the flexibility. I don't think the system will ever be 100% reliable - between Logic, Kontakt and each VI, there are going to be niggles.

A 4th "filter" tab would be welcome on the Art Map setup though, so we can define CC data we want stripped of artic data.


----------



## procreative

To me it seems like whatever CC is going into Logic is being picked up by the Articulations system. Its like the quivalent of playing a keyboard set to output on Midi channel 1, yet an instrument set to channel 2 also seeing the data.

Its either a bug or a design intent.

For instance currently if you place tracks inside a Track Stack, Smart Controls no longer listen for external hardware on each track. It drives me nuts as I created a MidiFX script to allow me to use a Mackie MCU to automate CCs. But I cannot do this if they are inside Smart Controls.

But this might be a design intent rather than how I perceive it as a flaw/bug.


----------



## Alex Fraser

procreative said:


> To me it seems like whatever CC is going into Logic is being picked up by the Articulations system. Its like the quivalent of playing a keyboard set to output on Midi channel 1, yet an instrument set to channel 2 also seeing the data.
> Its either a bug or a design intent.


I think it's a design intent, after (too much) thought. There are scenarios where it's a benefit (see my previous posts!)
For a straight-ahead Spitfire setup, it's not a helpful feature, granted, but no deal breaker.



procreative said:


> For instance currently if you place tracks inside a Track Stack, Smart Controls no longer listen for external hardware on each track. It drives me nuts as I created a MidiFX script to allow me to use a Mackie MCU to automate CCs. But I cannot do this if they are inside Smart Controls.
> 
> But this might be a design intent rather than how I perceive it as a flaw/bug.


Yes this drives me nuts too - especially when the Logic remote app updates but the midi input doesn't. Like you say, either a flaw or by design.


----------



## ptram

jonathanwright said:


> Sometimes on playback the arts will change correctly, other times they won't, I can't seem to figure out why.


It happens the same to me (with CC0 and other CCs). The only workaround I could find was to manually add the CC value at the point where the problem happens. Not optimal, but for now a way to work.

Paolo


----------



## Begfred

If you create a second track without articulation set and put the CC data on this one, problem gone.
Use _new track with next midi channel_ then set the midi channel to the same as the first one.


----------



## ptram

khollister said:


> was playing fine and then the last note of the run suddenly changed to Long. I tried setting the articulation of the mod events between the last and current note to pizz but no joy.


I can confirm this behavior.


----------



## synthpunk

Might I suggest a dedicated Logic 10.4 - Articulation thread at this point ?


----------



## rlw

Alex Fraser said:


> (Excuse the full screen rush job)
> 
> Something akin to this? Each Spitfire patch here is assigned to a different midi channel, but can be "driven" from the same track. Having the artic data attached to CC1 in this instance enables the "correct" instrument to receive the data.
> 
> Granted, the same thing can be accomplished without articulation maps, but you'd have to set the midi channel for CC1 events manually, or keep switching the midi output of your controller. Or use a multitimbral setup etc etc.
> It's certainly easier with the maps, regardless.
> 
> Of course, I fully accept I might be missing something. It won't be the first time.



If you use Peter’s Artzid he also gives you presets for Kontakt that clone ch 1 cc to all midi channels. Very handy in my Kontakt multi where I use a combination of UACC and Midi channels


----------



## rlw

babylonwaves said:


> as long as you only record on tracks which have an (working) articulation set assigned you will not see "-". if you record on a track which has no articulation set assigned, Logic assigns ID0 to every note you record. and this ID you cannot define in the articulation set editor. when logic plays back a note with ID0 it will choose the *first ID* in the articulation list instead. In your case, this is an articulation which makes your SF instrument switch to UACC1/Long. You can choose whatever you like here, depending on how you build your set. My advise: don't record on tracks which have note articulation set assigned and you will not end up in this situation.
> hth


I think you misunderstood me. In Kontakt in the Spitfire template change Longs to another UACC number . I do
This all the time so that I can put 2 articulations that default to the same UACC number and then I can make
Multi s for my templates that suit my workflow needs. If “Long” is no longer set to UACC 1 Then Logic can send 1 all day and nothing is triggered in Spitfire template. You are not locked into just using the default UACC that Spitfire set on their Kontakt templates. Does that make sense?


----------



## rlw

khollister said:


> It appears that "Not Set" or "--" is ID1, not zero - it drives the articulation in the Spitfire GUI to Long.
> 
> I finally managed to get a test sequence in SSS to screw up this morning - had a run of short notes followed by a sustain. Had the run set to pizz and the sustain to trill. Drew in modulation. was playing fine and then the last note of the run suddenly changed to Long. I tried setting the articulation of the mod events between the last and current note to pizz but no joy. I got the region to play correctly only after setting all the CC1 events from the beginning to the note-on of the problem note to pizz - then it played correctly again.
> 
> I have tried recreating this since and cannot get the same erroneous result. Either the problem is intermittent (great ) or the trigger is very subtle.
> 
> I wonder if this is due to some bug that surfaces because I'm using UACC for articulation and it gets crossed up with the "real" CC's? I should probably lock the Spitfire articulation to KS and see if it eventually happens again. Maybe that is a workaround until this gets resolved? Since it appears that the key switch notes do not appear in the editors (most importantly the score view), I wouldn't be adverse to that as an indefinite solution.
> 
> Or I could just go back to Cubase and expression maps.I do like Logic though and Alchemy and Sculpture are handy.


See my previous post. You are not locked in on Spitfire screen to map Longs to UACC 1 There is a very small icon in the Spitfire template that lets you change the UACC number associated to an articulation. Change the Longs to fire in UACC 201 . I mix templates with the same UACC numbers in the same Kontakt multi and then change one of the conflicting UACCs to another number. Then I save the multi and I can recall that setup again for my logic templates. Works great.


----------



## Karma

Me and a couple of others at Spitfire HQ are currently experimenting with this. We'll have some more info soon!


----------



## babylonwaves

rlw said:


> Multi s for my templates that suit my workflow needs. If “Long” is no longer set to UACC 1 Then Logic can send 1 all day and nothing is triggered in Spitfire template. You are not locked into just using the default UACC that Spitfire set on their Kontakt templates. Does that make sense?


maybe for you, not for me but that's beside the point  my point was that "-" doesn't necessarily activate "long". What it does is, it activates the first item in the "articulations" list in the editor.


----------



## khollister

rlw said:


> See my previous post. You are not locked in on Spitfire screen to map Longs to UACC 1 There is a very small icon in the Spitfire template that lets you change the UACC number associated to an articulation. Change the Longs to fire in UACC 201 . I mix templates with the same UACC numbers in the same Kontakt multi and then change one of the conflicting UACCs to another number. Then I save the multi and I can recall that setup again for my logic templates. Works great.



I'm just dense I guess. How do I change the UACC value, and isn't 201 outside the MIDI value range (0-127) anyway?


----------



## Karma

khollister said:


> I'm just dense I guess. How do I change the UACC value, and isn't 201 outside the MIDI value range (0-127) anyway?


I've just made up a quick image showing where this is for you. The red arrow points to where you can change the UACC values.

You are quite correct though, you can't go above 127.


----------



## khollister

Karma said:


> I've just made up a quick image showing where this is for you. The red arrow points to where you can change the UACC values.


Ah - thx.


----------



## khollister

I tried changing Long to 119, made a new map, reapplied the articulations to the notes and now the undefined CC events are causing the articulation in the Spitfire GUI to bounce back to LongCS. And one of the notes is playing sordino instead of it's selected articulation.

Ah - that is exactly what it is supposed to do because LongCS is now the first articulation in the map (lowest UACC number). "undefined" = first in map, not "1". Babylonwaves called it


----------



## Living Fossil

synthpunk said:


> Might I suggest a dedicated Logic 10.4 - Articulation thread at this point ?



It would in fact be great to split this thread... it has become very hard to read concerning other new features/experiences about 10.4.


----------



## khollister

OK - made a new thread


----------



## procreative

Living Fossil said:


> It would in fact be great to split this thread... it has become very hard to read concerning other new features/experiences about 10.4.



Ha! Probably because this one feature has the most of interest to those round these parts...


----------



## WindcryMusic

procreative said:


> Ha! Probably because this one feature has the most of interest to those round these parts...



Agreed. I saw someone post a video about 10.4 features to YouTube, and the articulation changes didn't even get a mention, which left me incredulous but also acutely conscious of the fact that these are primarily of interest to a relatively narrow set of Logic users.


----------



## synthpunk

**Lets move the Logic 10.4 Articulation discussion over here now please ? ** Thank you...

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/logic-10-4-articulation-discussion.68635/


----------



## Heinigoldstein

Peter Schwartz said:


> Well, OK, since you were so nice in feeding me all of those compliments and stuff...
> 
> Yes, I will be rolling out a "next generation" version of SkiSwitcher as well as ARTz•ID. Since this is all very new a fresh, I'm going to take things slow and roll things out in stages. I don't want to turn this thread into an advertisement for my wares (I don't think that would be fair to the intent of this thread) so I'll just mention a few things for now...
> 
> • The first wave of the update will consist of a small set of Articulation Sets specifically designed for SkiSwitcher (all versions) that will be plug-and-play with your existing SkiSwitcher setups.
> 
> There will probably only be 3 Sets in total, and you'll only need to choose one. Each set is named for the type of device you switch articulations with (there will be a Keyboard version, a CC#32 version, and a program change message version). And you'll add one of these to each instrument channel.
> 
> • Once you add a Set to an instrument channel, you'll immediately gain the ability to assign articulation markings to each articulation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you record, these markings will automatically be added to your notes in the score editor (see image below). And changing an articulation marking in the score will actually change the articulation that the note plays. This is one of the most brilliant features of the 10.4 system which you'll be able to tap into with these sets.
> 
> • You'll be able to enter articulation names directly in the Articulation Sets Editor for each instrument, and they'll appear alongside each recorded note in the Event List. Changing an articulation is as easy as clicking on a name and selecting a new articulation from a drop down menu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> • The inherent functions of the Articulation Set you choose will completely eliminate the need for the Macro.
> 
> • The update will be free for all SkiSwitcher customers. I'll need some time to put together the documentation, so please be patient. [*EDIT*: It's ready! So if you're a SkiSwitcher customer and you want the new files & dox, send me an email via the SkiSwitcher website.]
> 
> • All articulation switching will continue to be handled by the SkiSwitcher scripts. So whatever problems you may be experiencing with Articulation Sets alone (late switching, etc.) will not be an issue.



Peter, these are great news. I had my first full day of trying to work with the new system and since it was a total nightmare to me, I´m very much ooking forward to this !!!!!!!


----------



## rlw

Karma said:


> I've just made up a quick image showing where this is for you. The red arrow points to where you can change the UACC values.
> 
> You are quite correct though, you can't go above 127.


Good Catch.. My bad. I was confusing the UACC limit with Parameters in VEP which go beyond 127 .


----------



## robh

Is Chromaverb a replacement for PlatinumVerb? I can no longer find PlatinumVerb in my drop down list.

Rob


----------



## playz123

WindcryMusic said:


> Agreed. I saw someone post a video about 10.4 features to YouTube, and the articulation changes didn't even get a mention, which left me incredulous but also acutely conscious of the fact that these are primarily of interest to a relatively narrow set of Logic users.


Groove 3 has a new set of tutorials for what's new in Logic Pro X 10.4, and articulations are covered there...if you or anyone else is interested. Not free though.
https://www.groove3.com/tutorials/Logic-Pro-X-10.4-Update-Explained


----------



## synthpunk

PlatinumVerb is now hidden in a legacy folder (accessed by holding alt/option while adding an effect). If you have it in a old project it should still be there.

I think if you give Chromaverb a try you will see and hear it's a very different beast.



robh said:


> Is Chromaverb a replacement for PlatinumVerb? I can no longer find PlatinumVerb in my drop down list.
> 
> Rob


----------



## Peter Schwartz

synthpunk said:


> PlatinumVerb is now hidden in a legacy folder (accessed by holding alt/option while adding an effect).



I had no idea. Gotta RTFM. Great tip man!


----------



## robh

synthpunk said:


> PlatinumVerb is now hidden in a legacy folder (accessed by holding alt/option while adding an effect). If you have it in a old project it should still be there.
> 
> I think if you give Chromaverb a try you will see and hear it's a very different beast.


Thanks for the tip.
I do like Chromaverb very much. I was just surprised to not see the old one there. I thought that would have been a puzzling move of the Logic team if they had done that.

Rob


----------



## PeterN

Wish I had not done this update in the middle of a project. Try to solo a track now and it doesnt work, theres some new functions. Automation increasingly difficult. Seems they have boldly ventured into too complicated mathematics - stumbled into a riddle, probably twenty updates before this spider net been sufficiently cleaned.


----------



## Vik

Not to disagree with you, PeterN, but solo works here at least. What's more complicated with automation?


----------



## PeterN

Well, Vik, I am so pissed off right now, better not get into too much talk. Yea, you can solo one track but try to solo more than one track and so, and it jumps off the solo modes. Why make things this fuckin complicated, I mean, ..... Cubase, how are u doing...havent tried u yet.


----------



## Vik

Well, I just noticed that if you select more than one track and click on solo with the mouse or with a key commands, they both enter solo in 10.4. That used to be confusing in the previous version - it worked when using the mouse, but not with a key command. I tried both track solo and channel strip solo (but frankly I don't know what the difference between these two are). 

Regarding Cubase... not sure what to say. Steinberg has historically been more into features for Kontakt users, expression maps and all that, but after having bought both Cubase and Dorico I find that the way some/many of the functions are implemented are 1997-ish. I'm used to using key commands a lot in Logic, which means getting trouble in Dorico, for instance, because they have a policy about relying on small popup windows instead of using KCs, meaning that I can't translate my existing workflow into new key commands. And something as simple as assigning a new KC to a functions requires a lot more steps in Cubase than in Logic. Cubase doesn't have an as good help/contextual meny solution as Logic either, which makes the learning curve more steep. 

10.4 has it's issues (some shortcomings in the Articulation Set and Tempo Map implementation, for instance), but for me personally, 10.4 is the most interesting Logic release Apple has released for years. Too bad I can't run it on my 2008 Mac Pro without modifying it first.


----------



## Living Fossil

PeterN said:


> Yea, you can solo one track but try to solo more than one track and so, and it jumps off the solo modes.



Peter, i don't have this problem.
Maybe you could try to delete your Logic preferences (but back them up before).


----------



## PeterN

Thanks guys for comments. Appreciate your curiosity and efforts to assist.

I dont want to take too much space here with my silly problems, but if someone else stumbles on something similar, I figured out at least some cure here: I must automate the solo mode on each track, (it was a total mess with weird points too) (and wtf is this solo stuff anyway) and move the automation to “on” , i.e. push the solo automation up, and have the track 100% soloed in the automation. Then I do this on all tracks. Now it seems several tracks can be soloed at same time like it used to be.

If this is the case I can figure out the rest. Now for any newbie to jump into this mystery web of tons of automation stuff, it must be a monthly process to grab it - if they ever do. Glad I did it earlier, its like them fancy synthesizers, soon theres a thousand buttons and functions. Maybe I just switch to CoolEdit 1999 version - to save the time and skip all the fancy (!)


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## khollister

Not sure what you are doing but I just took several instrument tracks and clicked solo on a couple and it worked exactly as expected.


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## Alex Fraser

PeterN said:


> Thanks guys for comments. Appreciate your curiosity and efforts to assist.
> 
> I dont want to take too much space here with my silly problems, but if someone else stumbles on something similar, I figured out at least some cure here: I must automate the solo mode on each track, (it was a total mess with weird points too) (and wtf is this solo stuff anyway) and move the automation to “on” , i.e. push the solo automation up, and have the track 100% soloed in the automation. Then I do this on all tracks. Now it seems several tracks can be soloed at same time like it used to be.
> 
> If this is the case I can figure out the rest. Now for any newbie to jump into this mystery web of tons of automation stuff, it must be a monthly process to grab it - if they ever do. Glad I did it earlier, its like them fancy synthesizers, soon theres a thousand buttons and functions. Maybe I just switch to CoolEdit 1999 version - to save the time and skip all the fancy (!)


Aah, Cool Edit circa 1999. Good times, lots of nostalgia. Logic circa late nineties bears a resemblance to our new toy too..


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## naosato

Phat FX, you are exactly what I needed!!! No more stacking up 5 different effects in a row.....


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## ptram

Multiple track solo works, here, both with the mouse and a shortcut. Maybe it's an interference with the automation?

Paolo


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## PeterN

ptram said:


> Multiple track solo works, here, both with the mouse and a shortcut. Maybe it's an interference with the automation?
> 
> Paolo



Yup, in the automation. Full of strange patterns. I suspect this started when I soloed tracks under automation mode - theres some strange switching going on then. And before the whole mess started, I added the part 2 and part 3 logic projects to the current project 1 - I had it in 3 parts to save cpu. Something made the solo automation mess for solo mode - I mean, theres some new functions there that were/are affected. Similarly it affects Albion One, changing its sound. Anyway, like I said, I dont want to highlight own stuff here too much, was a frustration post initially, worked 4 weeks on that symphony and then it was like partly smashed after the update, however will solve this further today. Its in the automation. When I try the original part 2 and 3 they work like they should in solo modes. Cheers. Thanks again and wish u guys a great ...hmmm.....winter? How ab that.


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## PeterN

So anyway, if someone gets similar problem, i.e. theres some weird solo automation in an existing project, heres how I fixed it. Nothing genius, but here it is anyway.

(What happened my project was full of strange solo automation after I updated Logic, and in an existing project in which I glued together 3 different Logic projects, suddenly there was solo automation and all kinds of dots there in the automation too that did all kinds weird stuff.)

Highligt the track. Put it on solo automation. Mix—> delete automation —> delete visible automation on selected track.

Then u get rid of that shit only without having to delete rest automation.
Time for a hot coffee


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## whinecellar

I too have been experiencing a weird bug with solo behavior in 10.4. Any time I solo a track or region (not channel strip solo) and then un-solo it, I get a spinning beach ball for almost 10 seconds. Man, that gets old FAST. Now, this is on a song that was mid-project when I updated to 10.4, and which was based on my large scoring template. And that template was built on the old folder paradigm (each instrument group was packed in its own folder).

Finally with 32 hide groups available in 10.4, I wanted to try a new way of managing big projects, so I unpacked all folders and instead assigned each of them to a hide group. That solves problems for me that go back to the mid-90's - now I can see just what I want and everything is on the same level in the Arrange window. I've also had a lot of bugs related to folders, so I'm ready to ditch them!

Anyway, I'm hoping there's just something wonky with this particular song related to solo functionality, because I REALLY want to start working this way. It would be a game changer for me!


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## synthpunk

Todd & Maurice do a nice job on comparing the new Logic Vintage EQ's to UAD.


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## synthpunk

Chromaverb for Ambient


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## WindcryMusic

synthpunk said:


> Chromaverb for Ambient




Hehe, that was kind of fun to watch. The Chromaverb (which I haven't had a chance to try yet) certainly does sound ultra-smooth and non-grainy, and I like that a lot. As for the host ... he strikes me as the Bob Ross of ambient guitar. I might have to check out some more of his videos, if I have a need to be really, really relaxed. Fun stuff.


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## khollister

WindcryMusic said:


> Hehe, that was kind of fun to watch. The Chromaverb (which I haven't had a chance to try yet) certainly does sound ultra-smooth and non-grainy, and I like that a lot. As for the host ... he strikes me as the Bob Ross of ambient guitar. I might have to check out some more of his videos, if I have a need to be really, really relaxed. Fun stuff.


Guy needs to be doing voiceover work too - great voice


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## samphony

whinecellar said:


> I too have been experiencing a weird bug with solo behavior in 10.4. Any time I solo a track or region (not channel strip solo) and then un-solo it, I get a spinning beach ball for almost 10 seconds. Man, that gets old FAST. Now, this is on a song that was mid-project when I updated to 10.4, and which was based on my large scoring template. And that template was built on the old folder paradigm (each instrument group was packed in its own folder).
> 
> Finally with 32 hide groups available in 10.4, I wanted to try a new way of managing big projects, so I unpacked all folders and instead assigned each of them to a hide group. That solves problems for me that go back to the mid-90's - now I can see just what I want and everything is on the same level in the Arrange window. I've also had a lot of bugs related to folders, so I'm ready to ditch them!
> 
> Anyway, I'm hoping there's just something wonky with this particular song related to solo functionality, because I REALLY want to start working this way. It would be a game changer for me!



Glad you find the 32hide groups key command implementation helpful 

Lets wish for searchable track list next on the list....


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## whinecellar

Another weird thing I’m seeing: in some of the new plug-ins, moving one knob snaps another one to a random value. I was playing with the vintage EQs today and when changing the HF gain after changing the mids, the mid gain knob would snap back to zero. Same thing happened in ChromaVerb the other day. This was on fresh preferences too - all clean. Anyone else?


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## Nick Batzdorf

synthpunk said:


> Todd & Maurice do a nice job on comparing the new Logic Vintage EQ's to UAD.




Man. I only listened to the first one on computer speakers, but the Logic one has WAY more phase shift.

That might be the most drastic difference I've heard between two EQ plug-ins!


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## khollister

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Man. I only listened to the first one on computer speakers, but the Logic one has WAY more phase shift.
> 
> That might be the most drastic difference I've heard between two EQ plug-ins!


Yeah - I don’t think I’ll be getting rid of my UAD versions


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## synthpunk

of course some idiots were on the web saying they were close or just as good, so nice to see some level headed opinions coming in now.



khollister said:


> Yeah - I don’t think I’ll be getting rid of my UAD versions


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## whinecellar

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Man. I only listened to the first one on computer speakers, but the Logic one has WAY more phase shift.
> 
> That might be the most drastic difference I've heard between two EQ plug-ins!



Same here - pretty shocked at the difference!


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## Alex Fraser

I sorta dozed off watching that. Does the difference really merit the debate?


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## khollister

Alex Fraser said:


> I sorta dozed off watching that. Does the difference really merit the debate?



YMMV, but I thought the difference in clarity and imaging was pretty noticeable, especially on the API & Pultec. Even through Youtube!


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## Alex Fraser

khollister said:


> YMMV, but I thought the difference in clarity and imaging was pretty noticeable, especially on the API & Pultec. Even through Youtube!


Could sometimes hear the difference, sometimes not. I guess it’s an area of music tech that has never caught my interest. Not knocking those who enjoy it! 

I’ll confess I haven’t really reached for the logic vintage stuff yet, even having worked with 10.4 all week. I just keep using the channel eq. Old habits etc.


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## hazza

So gutted to discover Apple have written off my 2009 MacPro with El Capitan for this update. Still plenty of juice and firing on all cylinders after all these years! I've only read the first 5 pages so forgive me if this has been discussed, but has anyone managed to hack a Sierra workaround for ageing machines?


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## TGV

hazza said:


> So gutted to discover Apple have written off my 2009 MacPro with El Capitan for this update. Still plenty of juice and firing on all cylinders after all these years! I've only read the first 5 pages so forgive me if this has been discussed, but has anyone managed to hack a Sierra workaround for ageing machines?


I think it's compatible with Sierra.


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## mac

UAD sounds musical even at those extremes, whereas the logic eqs sound like digital death. So it looks like the logic team continue to fill the program with things that serious producers will likely never use (who here will use the new strings or brass?), yet the things we really need - realtime cpu performance improvements please - are left in the cold.


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## hazza

TGV said:


> I think it's compatible with Sierra.


Sadly my MacPro is not! I have found a hack but I don't want to jeopardise reliability...


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## KV626

hazza said:


> Sadly my MacPro is not! I have found a hack but I don't want to jeopardise reliability...



It's just a firmware upgrade, totally harmless. Once you apply it, your 2009 Mac Pro *will be* a 5,1 and you'll be able to install Sierra just like any other 5,1. 100% reliabe, you should do it.


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## hazza

KV626 said:


> It's just a firmware upgrade, totally harmless. Once you apply it, your 2009 Mac Pro *will be* a 5,1 and you'll be able to install Sierra just like any other 5,1. 100% reliabe, you should do it.


Thanks, that's wonderful to hear. Have a great weekend!


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## procreative

hazza said:


> Thanks, that's wonderful to hear. Have a great weekend!



To further put your mind at rest, most of the 2nd hand Mac Pro 5,1 for sale via used dealers are 4,1 that have been firmware upgraded. I have 3 Macs all 2009 Nehalem, 2 were bought already flashed, 1 I did myself.

All work fine as 5,1 machines.

However I am sure sooner or later the requirement will change to 6,1...

I have an iPad3 that I cannot run the latest Logic Remote on as it needs iOS 11 and 9 is the most it can have (unless someone knows a hack for that!).


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## resound

hazza said:


> Thanks, that's wonderful to hear. Have a great weekend!


I flashed my 4,1 to make it a 5,1 so I could install Sierra and Logic 10.4 and so far I've had no issues. I'd say go for it!


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## anp27

whinecellar said:


> Finally with 32 hide groups available in 10.4, I wanted to try a new way of managing big projects, so I unpacked all folders and instead assigned each of them to a hide group. That solves problems for me that go back to the mid-90's - now I can see just what I want and everything is on the same level in the Arrange window. I've also had a lot of bugs related to folders, so I'm ready to ditch them!



Not fully understanding how this works.. so basically what you're saying is, up until 10.4 you were grouping your instruments into folders for your projects with a large amount of tracks, but now with 10.4 you're not using the same folders method from before, and instead, all instrument tracks are left unpacked but set up as Groups that you can show/hide as needed?


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## Saxer

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Man. I only listened to the first one on computer speakers, but the Logic one has WAY more phase shift.
> 
> That might be the most drastic difference I've heard between two EQ plug-ins!


In the video the "Natural" setting was used. There's is also a switch to "Linear". Does it make the difference?


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## whinecellar

anp27 said:


> Not fully understanding how this works.. so basically what you're saying is, up until 10.4 you were grouping your instruments into folders for your projects with a large amount of tracks, but now with 10.4 you're not using the same folders method from before, and instead, all instrument tracks are left unpacked but set up as Groups that you can show/hide as needed?



Yes, exactly. There were a handful of issues when using both folders and track stacks that involved workarounds and some bugs, but they were the only way to navigate a large template. The new way of using a bunch of hide groups solves all of that for me and has a good handful of advantages!


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## anp27

whinecellar said:


> There were a handful of issues when using both folders and track stacks that involved workarounds and some bugs, but they were the only way to navigate a large template.



What about the Track Stacks feature? Place similar instruments into a Track Stack which can be collapsed and expanded with a key command?


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## samphony

anp27 said:


> What about the Track Stacks feature? Place similar instruments into a Track Stack which can be collapsed and expanded with a key command?


This still doesn’t solve the navigation issue as you will see multiple tracks still even if packed into stacks. 

The hide group feature allows you to solely focus on certain tracks without other tracks getting in the way. 

Imagine you have two tracks in Stack A, three tracks in Stack D and 5 tracks in Stack F you want to work on at the same time. Hiding allows you to just focus on them. 

I hope these features will extended beyond the 32 hiding groups. Sometimes I would like to hit a button to just see tracks with regions at the playhead position.


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## anp27

samphony said:


> The hide group feature allows you to solely focus on certain tracks without other tracks getting in the way.



Ah, I get it now. Thanks!



samphony said:


> I hope these features will extended beyond the 32 hiding groups. Sometimes I would like to hit a button to just see tracks with regions at the playhead position.



That does actually sounds pretty killer..


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## whinecellar

Yes, what @samphony said above about Track Stacks. Funny enough, I begged for those since around 1995 and was thrilled when they were implemented - only to find that it traded one set of frustrations (old folders) with another (track stacks). Hard to explain verbally, but after 5 minutes navigating a huge template, I ended up preferring the old folder paradigm, even with its bugs and disadvantages. With track stacks, there are some key commands that aren't there yet that would make it much faster to get around - but as of now you have to mouse to the stack header half the time before you can open/close, etc. Even if those key commands were there, there would still be some real downsides to organizing a template with them. They have their uses, but not for that, IMO.

The hide groups thing is KILLER though, because finally I can see anything I want, in any combination - and everything is on the same level. Want to double your celli with horns? Show those 2 hide groups and all you see are celli and horns! I think Cubase guys have had this for years, and it is a HUGE productivity boost. I used to have screen sets for each of my inst. groups, so I spent all day going into and out of folders. Hasta la vista, folders!


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## samphony

Maybe we should start a thread about how to navigate logic with hide groups to inspire how to apply groups for track filtering instead of mixing purposes.


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## whinecellar

samphony said:


> Maybe we should start a thread about how to navigate logic with hide groups to inspire how to apply groups for track filtering instead of mixing purposes.



Here are mine - top few rows of my iPad TouchOSC template. Hope that gives you some ideas!


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## anp27

whinecellar said:


> With track stacks, there are some key commands that aren't there yet that would make it much faster to get around - but as of now you have to mouse to the stack header half the time before you can open/close, etc. Even if those key commands were there, there would still be some real downsides to organizing a template with them.



As of right now, there are key commands to 1) open/close ALL Track Stacks 2) open/close selected Track Stack. 1) is what I use 90% of the time. This works perfectly for me and my needs... I don't have tons and tons of tracks like you do so the Track Stacks feature has been great. Never tried out the Hide Groups and have tried Folders, but like you said, it's very easy to lose track of the different levels if you aren't careful.


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## WindcryMusic

whinecellar said:


> Here are mine - top few rows of my iPad TouchOSC template. Hope that gives you some ideas!



Looks great! But I'm equally as interested in the wood I see at the bottom of the frame - is that a custom-made slant stand for your iPad? If so, I have plans to build just such a thing for my own studio this spring (the idea being to have the iPad overhanging the back left edge of my desk keyboard controller), and I'd be interested to see more pictures of and details about yours in order to get ideas for how best to design it. (I don't want to hijack this thread too much, so I'll post a separate thread shortly and link to it here when I do.)

EDIT: project thread created here: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/custom-built-slant-mount-for-ipad-tablet.68754/


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## whinecellar

anp27 said:


> As of right now, there are key commands to 1) open/close ALL Track Stacks 2) open/close selected Track Stack....



Yep, agreed - but you have to be on a track *inside* a stack for the latter to work, and you have to select a stack before you can open it (or double click it) - and that gets old fast. The great thing about hide groups is that it doesn't matter what track is selected at the moment; you simply hit your key for "violins" and bam - there are your violins. I didn't realize how much faster that way of working would be. I wanted track stacks for ages until I realized they're not a whole lot better than the original folder concept, at least for navigating large templates.

The other thing I'm not crazy about with stacks is that they only reflect areas where there are regions within. In other words, say a stack only contains regions from bars 10-15. The parent track stack, when closed, looks the same. I get why some would prefer that, but it's disorienting to me - probably from being so used to the old folder paradigm. I'd prefer a folder/stack to be a solid block with length determined by me, regardless of what's inside. Just a visual preference for keeping things organized, and quickly identifying things at a bird's eye view. YMMV


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## anp27

whinecellar said:


> The great thing about hide groups is that it doesn't matter what track is selected at the moment; you simply hit your key for "violins" and bam - there are your violins. I didn't realize how much faster that way of working would be.



Right... I see why you prefer Show/Hide Groups instead


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## galactic orange

I haven't seen much discussion of the 2 new Jazz Brush Kits. I picked up Addictive Drums custom pack a few months ago primarily to get the brush kit they offer (and maybe the Jazz stick kit too). But if these new Logic ones compare favorably, I might go for something completely different for the AD Packs. Would someone who has tried both care to comment?


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## desert

jonathanwright said:


> _There is now a key command to open the Instrument plug-in for the currently focused track._
> Woohoo!



Id like to say I emailed them for this feature many times, glad they finally read it


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## procreative

Has anyone else had a problem with Show/Hide Groups? I have a Lemur template with the shortcut to Show/Hide various Groups, when I click it there seems to be a delay before it does this.

1. This problem existed for me in earlier versions of Logic too.
2. My iPad is connected via a cabled uSB Midi connection (iConnect4+) rock solid, no WiFi

Its not the command that takes a while, but Logic seems to have to think about it before doing it.


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## whinecellar

procreative said:


> Has anyone else had a problem with Show/Hide Groups? I have a Lemur template with the shortcut to Show/Hide various Groups, when I click it there seems to be a delay before it does this.
> 
> 1. This problem existed for me in earlier versions of Logic too.
> 2. My iPad is connected via a cabled uSB Midi connection (iConnect4+) rock solid, no WiFi
> 
> Its not the command that takes a while, but Logic seems to have to think about it before doing it.



Hmmm... yeah, I have had some random times where it won’t do anything and it takes a few presses, but I chalked it up to poor Wi-Fi since I run TouchOSC on a gen1 iPad and my Wi-Fi router is downstairs. I do have a current iPad Pro as well, maybe I’ll try running TouchOSC on that since it’s directly connected...


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## PapaG

Mixer faders (and Graphic EQ) do not respond to touch control on Cintiq. Strangely only these controls are affected.


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## procreative

Wish they would make a way to store Controller Assignments that dont involve backing up the prefs as they are easily screwed and what happens if you make some changes and happen not to back them up...

Also a shortcut to edit the Articulation ID number would be nice, eg click on a note and either be able to +/- 1 ID or even better assign to a Smart Control and turn a knob. By the way you can already assign it to a Smart Control but it does not seem to change the ID on already recorded notes.


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## Vik

There are two key command which increases (or decreases) the last clicked parameter by 1 (or 10). That requires that you manually change the articulation ID once with the mouse. I tried it in the event list, but it doesn't seem to work for articulation IDs yet. I agree that there should be dedicated key commands for selecting previous/next articulation which works in all editors.


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## whinecellar

procreative said:


> Wish they would make a way to store Controller Assignments that dont involve backing up the prefs as they are easily screwed...



Agreed - I’ve wished that for years, especially since they decided to hide the user library folder where Prefs are stored. GRRRRRR. I know how to get around, but it’s still a pain. As it is, I get things the way I want them, make a backup, and then drag a copy of them back into Prefs when they inevitably get hosed. I never understood why that stuff gets so easily corrupted! Anyway...


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## yopomusic

Alex Fraser said:


> If this is what I think you mean...
> Top Logic menu:
> Mix > Autoselect Automation Parameter in Read Mode > Deselect


Thank you! Was driving me crazy


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## Land of Missing Parts

toddkedwards said:


> I converted to Cubase over a year ago from Logic. Can you disable tracks yet in Logic (I know about freeze, not the same)? If Apple adds this, I might jump back to using Logic again.


^^^What is the advantage of disabling (in Cubase) instead of freezing (in Logic)?


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## toddkedwards

Land of Missing Parts said:


> ^^^What is the advantage of disabling (in Cubase) instead of freezing (in Logic)?


It disabled the track and takes it out of RAM. Let's say you have a template of 100 tracks and you have 95 out of 100 disabled, your computer and RAM will only see the 5 tracks instead of the full 100. It's different than freezing tracks in Logic, it's not the same.


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## Vik

True, and disable releases not only the sample RAM, but also the RAM used by the sampler (Kontakt etc). A major wish of mine (and many I know).


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## Land of Missing Parts

toddkedwards said:


> It disabled the track and takes it out of RAM. Let's say you have a template of 100 tracks and you have 95 out of 100 disabled, your computer and RAM will only see the 5 tracks instead of the full 100. It's different than freezing tracks in Logic, it's not the same.


I see, thanks. I'm guessing the benefit is just CPU usage then?
Well, it's a pain to use, but at least there's purging in Kontakt.


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## Shad0wLandsUK

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I see, thanks. I'm guessing the benefit is just CPU usage then?
> Well, it's a pain to use, but at least there's purging in Kontakt.


Which Cubase massively needs on macOS, because it is awful :/


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## Vik

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'm guessing the benefit is just CPU usage then?


Not mainly CPU usage, but RAM usage.


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## Land of Missing Parts

Vik said:


> Not mainly CPU usage, but RAM usage.


Let me see if I have this right. If you have 100 Kontakt instances in a Logic template and 95 are frozen, it's still loading 100 into RAM. But even with that, there's less RAM being used with 95 of them frozen?


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## Vik

If they are unloaded in Cubase, they aren't loaded into RAM - neither using memory for Kontakt or for samples. 
It's not possible to totally unload a library this way in Logic. Not only that, but even when a track is frozen in Logic, it keeps using sample memory and Kontakt memory. 
So even if Logic isn't using and CPU for Kontakt after a track is frozen, the memory is still occupied by Kontakt. If what I have been explained is correct, Logic uses the same amount of Kontakt and sample memory whether you freeze zero tracks, 5 tracks or 95 tracks. It's the CPU that is being saved (since playing back and audio file requires less CPU than handing a Kontakt library in real time), not the RAM. Of course, I hope I'm wrong about this!


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## Land of Missing Parts

Vik said:


> If they are unloaded in Cubase, they aren't loaded into RAM - neither using memory for Kontakt or for samples.
> It's not possible to totally unload a library this way in Logic. Not only that, but even when a track is frozen in Logic, it keeps using sample memory and Kontakt memory.
> So even if Logic isn't using and CPU for Kontakt after a track is frozen, the memory is still occupied by Kontakt. If what I have been explained is correct, Logic uses the same amount of Kontakt and sample memory whether you freeze zero tracks, 5 tracks or 95 tracks. It's the CPU that is being saved (since playing back and audio file requires less CPU than handing a Kontakt library in real time), not the RAM. Of course, I hope I'm wrong about this!


Thanks Vik. It looks like VE Pro running without a slave (so all on the same computer) could provide a workaround that would enable Logic users to disable and free up RAM based on what I see in this thread https://vi-control.net/community/threads/will-a-slave-really-help-me.74255/#post-4270083


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