# Classical Symphonic Piece - comments welcomed



## handz (Aug 19, 2005)

Hi guys, this is my latest piece, done in more "Classical" style. 
Im bit lazy these days, so It is only GOLD, without MGeliminatio, lots of expresion and mixing...so be patient

http://www.galerieskacelik.cz/final_movement.mp3

thanx for listening.


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 19, 2005)

Classical pieces, usually deserve a real orchestra to play em. And this one is no different. Though the appluase at the end is great! hehe

great job!


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## groove (Aug 19, 2005)

that's really cool Hantz !

i loved the aplause at the end :lol: 

is it the Bella D noises you used in the midle ? i found them a bit to loud and disturbind my linstening.

so much ideas in it and good editing !!


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## handz (Aug 19, 2005)

Groove: Thanx!
Yeas, those are bela D...and yeah.they are too loud, Iv noticed that just now on headphones. Thanx for feedback!

Evan: yeah...but what could one do... Thanx.


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## gugliel (Aug 19, 2005)

Sounds very good. One idea to heighten the excitement, possibly -- the tempo sounds a little held back to me, as if to make sure the players can play it -- but most of the fast work sounds as if it could go a little faster, and you could mark slower sections for more lyrical material. The section around 3:30-4:00 (or thereabouts) seemed to wander a little, for me on first listening. By 4:30, you picked things up with motor rhythms.


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## handz (Aug 19, 2005)

Gugliel: Thanx, you are right, some slowdowns will help!


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 19, 2005)

nice Handz!

I think you have excellent sensibilities and a natural talent .

I do have a few questions for you

How long did it take to realize this?

I remeber you writing you have no serious studied background in music...is this correct?

What do you intend to do with all these midi'd pieces, have you printed them out in score form?

Some of these questions are leading questions meant to continue a discussion, I am heading somewhere with this.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 19, 2005)

Handz,

Really excellent piece and production. I believe it really deserves a much better Mp3 encoding. Do you use 128 because of hosting limitations? If so, let's try to get the original wave mix over to me and I can host a 320 or 256 Mb version for you! I'm sure it will showcase this piece a lot better! Do you have an unmastered mix? 24 bit maybe?

Maybe I could then also apply some LinEQ/LinMB on the master, if you wouldn't mind. I think I can add some more sparkle, bottom and depth with some mastering. But absolutely no offense to your project/production 8) It just triggers my mastering imaginations. :wink: 

I have my own internet mail server and can thus receive big files.

Best regards,


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## Sicmu (Aug 19, 2005)

Great piece of music, you really deserve the applause !
Among the russian and especially Martinu influences I can see your own style growing.
It's more than a neoclassical piece, my only complain would be that with the extended complex harmonic central section we maybe lose the drive of the first half that we would like to hear again a little earlier than 4'40'' but it's just my personal taste and I have to listen to it again.
This is the final movement of what ?


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## synergy543 (Aug 19, 2005)

Great composition Handz. Any chance we can hear the other movements?

You might want to check out the TKT Round Robin patches for Gold if you don't already know about these:

http://www.kevintweedy.net/K2/info.htm


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## re-peat (Aug 20, 2005)

Handz,

Absolutely wonderful. In fact, your music is - in itself - such a joy to listen to, that all the problems inherent to an orchestral mock-up become totally irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for this exceptionnaly inspired (and inspiring) piece.


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## MCS (Aug 20, 2005)

hi handz!

I really enjoyed your piece! very creative! 
I also want to hear the other 3 movements!! :D 

Best,
Michael


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## handz (Aug 20, 2005)

Thank you very much Craig,

It was composed in four days, about 4 hours per day.

Yes, it si true I don?t play any instrument and have no musical education, I almost dont know basic theory (all scales, progressions etc) I mainly using my ears. 
Also, most of "theory" I learned, with help of this useful thing http://dusan.pc-slany.cz/hudba/ramy.htm (cz) and by listening classical music.

Print them as a score? Im Affraid that Im not able to make that...


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## handz (Aug 20, 2005)

Peter: Really really thanx!

It was simply because I dont have quick connection, and bigger bit rate means longer upload time. In some parts it needs use limiter. 

Im really thankfull for the offer! Maybe before that, I may little "upgrade" that piece (it is finished, but I always find some part that could be changed).

But Im now composing other movement, so... I could send you wav file, and I will be happy if you make some mastering improvements to it! 

Again - Thank you.


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## handz (Aug 20, 2005)

Sicmu: Thank you! 
Russian? Great! Russian romantic music is my favorite one, Im happy that you have feeling of it in my piece 

It is simply Final movement of nonexisting symphony....symfoniet  Im working on slow movement right now.

Synergy:Than you very much. Yes yes...WIP
I already know TKT patches, but thanks for the link

re-peat: Thank you! Im glad you like it!

MCS: Thanks Michael! I hope you will...


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 20, 2005)

handz said:


> Thank you very much Craig,
> 
> It was composed in four days, about 4 hours per day.
> 
> ...



OK, here come the tough questions

You have this talent that some people who have been studying for years try to get to. 

where do you go from here, as you can't put a score down on paper so there is no chance for real players to play your work, which would be the best goal for your stuff. In other words your pieces will be regulated to playing for friends, family and forum members, with stiff sampled sounds, which is ok but not a lofty goal. 

Why not take some classes to get to know how to get an orchestra to understand what you want, and pursue your writing career where you have more avenues for your talent. It would be a shame for you to be able to communicate your music with just a computer.


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## Christian Marcussen (Aug 20, 2005)

Nice - 16 hours in all... thats pretty fast for something so complex...

Impressive


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## Niah (Aug 20, 2005)

Very nice job Handz.

You're very talented indeed.


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## synergy543 (Aug 20, 2005)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Why not take some classes to get to know how to get an orchestra to understand what you want, and pursue your writing career where you have more avenues for your talent. It would be a shame for you to be able to communicate your music with just a computer.


Not everyone does well in classes. Martinu failed and studied on his own. He wrote his first Symphony when he was 52. If he were around today, I wonder if he'd be working on a computer? You know there's an academic environment that eschews them too.

http://www.chez.com/craton/musique/martinu/martinu.htm


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 20, 2005)

well fine....then study on his own...just so he can get real guys to play his pieces. It's not the route but the destination I am looking at.


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## synergy543 (Aug 20, 2005)

Craig Sharmat said:


> well fine....then study on his own...just so he can get real guys to play his pieces. It's not the route but the destination I am looking at.


Craig, I find it most interesting (because I respect your compositions and realizations so much) that you see a computer realization as being an invalid performance in its own right. What about the synthetic offshoots of Isao Tomita or Wendy Carlos? Their music could NOT have been played by a real orchestra - the synthetic realization was the performance. Although they weren't using computers and synthesizers (as well as samplers) back then, why are computer performances suddenly invalid? What about Eric Serra who also uses hybrid sounds? Is the 5th Element an invalid film score?

Granted Handz performance could be improved upon (and his inspiring composition deserves to be) but it doesn't mean that that route need be invalid as a performance. For me, I draw the distinction between a mockup that is more or less thrown together and a realization that is carefully crafted and expressive.


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 20, 2005)

Ok..i think we are getting into symantics here. i don't find anything invalid, but i see where there are limitations. I see that Eric Serra can use real orchestra and that the intention of tomita and Carlos was to use synths, the orchestra was not a consideration for the latter 2 .Handz, myself and most of us here can mimick an orchestra with samples but when doing so we are not ALWAYS getting the best result possible. It would be nice if he could even allow for that option.


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## synergy543 (Aug 20, 2005)

Agreed. I see. 

You guys set such high standards its a tough act to follow!


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 21, 2005)

handz said:


> Craig Sharmat said:
> 
> 
> > handz said:
> ...



Sure do, though I was beaten to the punch somewhat by JC5

first i am going to agree with everything JC wrote above.

What i would do if I were in your shoes is hunt down a composistion teacher at a consevatory where you live. If you can send him a CD or if by email send him an mp3 of your work. the idea is for him to know something about what you can do, not what you can't. Hopefully he will show interest and guide you. 

If this works out, you will meet students and teachers. Once you get going, hopefully they will be impressed with your talents that your pieces get preformed where you live, or better yet a contact from a conservatory tells someone about you at a bigger city. 

You see, it is a lot about networking too. The teachers at the consevatory do not live in a bubble, otherwise they would be banging sticks in caves and calling it music. Many probably came from bigger cities and have contacts or know people.

What you need to do is be focused on the goal, even if you can write better than your teacher. Always be humble, you will get more information that way. Even if a teacher can't write well, as long as he can convey his ideas to an orchestra, he knows something you don't. you need to know what that is.

When learning, realize most students will be getting ideas from the teacher for the first time. You on the other hand often will be learning names for things you already know.

Hope this helps


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## Alex W (Aug 21, 2005)

Very nice work handz! You *do* have serious talent.

I think Craig's givin' some pretty sage council there too.


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## José Herring (Aug 21, 2005)

Well I agree that Hanz needs some musical education. I'm not sure that the traditional conservatory or University school approach would be so great.

I was never in possesion of any kind of real compositional talent so I had to teach myself a lot in spite of many years of academic schooling. I think for Hanz who already has a lot on the ball the best thing for him to do is to find some composers in his area or near by that compose music that he really admires. Then ask for some lessons from them.

Not being able to read music may at first be a barrier but I think that if you wanted you could learn to read well enough for compositional purposes in a few weeks. You wouldn't be a screaming sight reader but you'll be able to put some notes down on a page.

But let's not knock the fact that he's getting pretty good results with the computer. If need be he can hire a music copyist to extract parts. That's not a big deal.

I'd be looking for two things:1) education that isn't going to squash his natural talents, which education only comes from studying with professional doers and not necessarily professional teachers. EIS is a great example of education that releases natural ability because it was built and designed by a guy who could do it. And 2) Increasing your already inherent musical abilities. That means that you get better at what you can do and not try to change this or that to suit any one or the other academic school of neo-bullshit that's rampid in universities and some conservatories.

Jose


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## fictionmusic (Aug 21, 2005)

Handz

Great piece! It was very entertaining and a delight to listen to. 

On the school topic: it certainly wouldn't hurt to study at school if only to have access to an orchestra. Most of the time I found you end up studying privately anyway. When I went, the best thing I found was access to lots of players and learning about ear-training. 

Whatever...school or not, you are certainly getting good results now.


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## Bernard Asselin (Aug 22, 2005)

> Whatever...school or not, you are certainly getting good results now.



I agree with you ! Thumbs up ! 

Bernard


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## Thonex (Aug 22, 2005)

Great piece. A wonderfull through-written piece.... and this stuff is hard to pull off with synths... very nive job.

It's a nice journey... My only comment is that (in my opinion) I would have liked there to be more of a primary melody to hold on to during this great journey to so many places.




josejherring said:


> Not being able to read music may at first be a barrier but I think that if you wanted you could learn to read well enough for compositional purposes in a few weeks. You wouldn't be a screaming sight reader but you'll be able to put some notes down on a page.




That's why Berlioz is one of my heroes.... his sight-reading sucked and so did his piano playing.
:D :D :D :D 

T


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## jc5 (Aug 22, 2005)

In the end the learning that was being suggested was mostly in the area of being able to notate the compositions so that performance is possible without having to rely on others to make the score for you (which frankly isn't going to happen unless you pay them!). Sight reading is of decidedly secondary importance, unless one also plans to be a performer (which includes conducting). Though mind you, as you get more practice in just cleaning up your own notation, you will inevitably gain some skill in sight reading as well. Staring at the notes and in time associating them with the correct sound will do that all by itself.

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