# Interesting news for Logic users



## vrocko (Sep 7, 2011)

Hopefully its true about not dumbing down to garageband type of app.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/07/app ... gic-pro-x/


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## Danny_Owen (Sep 7, 2011)

Hopefully... otherwise is everyone ready for the move to Cubase?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 7, 2011)

Why would they dumb it down to a Garageband type of app?

And I'd be happy if they incorporated Soundtrack (i.e. a better audio editor) into the program.


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## EastWest Lurker (Sep 7, 2011)

I'm calling BS on this.


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## stonzthro (Sep 7, 2011)

On the whole thing or on Logic NOT becoming Garageband Pro?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 7, 2011)

What's to call BS on?




> Japanese site Macotakara reports that Apple may be finishing up work on a new version of its Logic professional audio software, with the new version being named Logic Pro X. According to a rough English translation provided alongside the original Japanese-language report, a source familiar with the status of the project appears to report that the news comes from a source involved in a "customer interview" with Apple's Logic team.



Okay, so there was no "customer interview" most likely. But someone probably told tales.



> The report indicates that Apple will be discontinuing the Soundtrack Pro component of Logic Studio with the update, which would mirror the move taken with the release of Final Cut Pro X earlier this year. Soundtrack Pro 3 had been offered with both Final Cut Studio and Logic Studio, but is no longer included as part of the Final Cut Pro X application set.



Plausible, right?



> As far as other Logic Studio components, Logic Pro X is also said to fold some of the existing production tools such as WaveBurner directly into the core Logic Pro application. MainStage, Apple's software for bringing virtual instruments and effects to live performances, is reportedly set to be spun out as a separate standalone application.



Nothing outlandish there.



> The report does not specify how Apple plans to distribute Logic Pro X, although it seems reasonable to assume that it would be a Mac App Store release like Final Cut Pro X. MainStage would likely also be offered via the Mac App Store much as Motion and Compressor are offered separately from Final Cut Pro.
> 
> No rumored release date for Logic Pro X is given in the report, with the only concrete detail being that Apple will not be incorporating a GarageBand-style user interface for the revamped application, likely sticking to a more complex interface more appropriate for the professional-level nature of the software.



That seems more likely than not too, right? It wouldn't make sense to give Logic aa GarageBand-style interface.



> Apple launched Logic Pro 9 as part of a revamped Logic Studio suite in mid-2009, and brought 64-bit compatibility to the software in early 2010 in the form of Logic Pro 9.1.



Now that's BS.


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## midphase (Sep 7, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Sep 07 said:


> Why would they dumb it down to a Garageband type of app?



You're joking right? I mean you're trying to be sarcastic right?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 7, 2011)

I'm not sarcastic!

Logic isn't FCP, and they're selling the old FCP again now after all the uproar. Besides, the video market is different.


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## midphase (Sep 8, 2011)

I dunno...Apple puzzles me as of late and I'm not taking anything for granted. All of my editor friends were saying the same thing as you about FCP until the new one came out which goes to show that we shouldn't automatically make assumptions that Apple will continue to cater to the pro market for audio, video or anything.


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## stevenson-again (Sep 8, 2011)

I would listen to Jay when ever it comes to Logic rumours.

These rumours have the air of plausibility because they are generally common sense. A bit like forecasting weather: if you forecast todays weather for tomorrow you will be correct more often than not.

But these rumours are pretty much made up or based on nothing more substantial than generalising platitudes. If you go to musikmesse you might be luck enough to bump into one of the logic developers and they will tell you precisely squat.

We can speculate away here though. My guess (and this is just a guess - no inside knowledge at all) that they are not quite finished with version 9, and that X if/when it comes will need a bit longer to integrate with whatever apple has in mind for where they want to take things with Lion.

One of the things that consistently comes up within professional circles using logic is that we want stability and reliability (read eliminating bugs) ahead of new features. Given that 9 is now at .5 and that feature-wise 9 is pretty mature, I could be accused of forecasting tomorrows weather based on todays. Never-the-less, there is plenty of scope for logic to be improved based on what is already there rather than a completely brand new paradigm.

So there you are. Tomorrow's forecast according to Rohan. Let the rumours continue....


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## jamwerks (Sep 8, 2011)

Don't forget that Logic 9 is only at 9.1.5.
And the last 2 "updates" have really only been compatibility fixes.
I reckon they've been on X for almost two years now. X probably won't be a PT killer (that won't probably ever come), but it might be a DP killer. >8o


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## EastWest Lurker (Sep 8, 2011)

midphase @ Wed Sep 07 said:


> I dunno...Apple puzzles me as of late and I'm not taking anything for granted. All of my editor friends were saying the same thing as you about FCP until the new one came out which goes to show that we shouldn't automatically make assumptions that Apple will continue to cater to the pro market for audio, video or anything.



The thing people need to remember is that FCP and Soundtrack Pro, like most Apple apps, are developed by Apple people in Cupertino. Logic is still largely developed by the same German folks in Rellingen who developed it for Emagic.

Do they get directives from Cupertino that they must pay heed to? I'm sure they do but is a different situation than for most of the pro apps.


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## dcoscina (Sep 8, 2011)

Logic X a DP killer? Don't think so....


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## EastWest Lurker (Sep 8, 2011)

dcoscina @ Thu Sep 08 said:


> Logic X a DP killer? Don't think so....



MOTU will probably do a good job killing DP on its own _ (Jay ducks for cover)_


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## jamwerks (Sep 8, 2011)

dcoscina @ Thu Sep 08 said:


> Logic X a DP killer? Don't think so....



I say that just because Logic being already 64 bit, will have had 2 years "more time" for feature development, to say nothing of of X's undoubted total intergration with Lions new features. No mystery there, Apple makes both. DP has several great features that I hope X will intergrate! o-[][]-o


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## whinecellar (Sep 8, 2011)

dcoscina @ Thu Sep 08 said:


> Logic X a DP killer? Don't think so....



I know, right? Logic's already been a DP killer since what, 1997 or so?

o-[][]-o 

Just messin' with ya David!

p.s. yeah, I do have to admit DP has some killer features aimed at scoring folks - it would be nice to see some of that make the leap...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 8, 2011)

All the sequencers are each-other killers and have been for years.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 8, 2011)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Sep 08 said:


> All the sequencers are each-other killers and have been for years.



And I'd bet that the vast majority of us stick with the one that brung us....


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## jamwerks (Sep 9, 2011)

Seems that any objective speak about daw's, and people feel the need to defend the family members. Guess it goes to show how tied we are to our tools ! :shock:


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## charlieclouser (Sep 9, 2011)

I've switched sequencers enough in my life:

Sequential Circuits C-64 cartridge (playing live all-MIDI gigs with 2 identical C-64s to play from one while the other loaded the next song from the 1541 floppy drive)...

to Roger Powell's Texture on IBM PC-Portable (running DOS 3.1 and MPU-401 for live gigs)...

to Hybrid Arts SMPTEtrack on Atari ST (lasted less than a year but had SMPTE so I could slave to Sony BVU-950 3/4" machines that played video backing)...

to Steinberg Pro24 on Atari ST (looked nifty but very limited)...

to Soutworth Total Music with Jambox/4 on Mac Plus (great but unstable)...

to Passport MasterTracks Pro on Mac Plus...

to Performer 1.22 on Mac Plus (worked great with my 68020 upgrade and 20mb HyperDrive)...

to Southworth OneStep on Mac Plus (did a whole season of TV scores on that rig)...

to Vision and then StudioVision on Mac II (did lots of albums on that rig)...

to Logic on Mac Quadra 950 all the way up to today's 8-core machines...

So... been there, done that. I'm staying right here.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 9, 2011)

Yeah, Charlie but it looks like you have not switched DAWS since 1992? Like many of us...


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## charlieclouser (Sep 9, 2011)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Sep 09 said:


> Yeah, Charlie but it looks like you have not switched DAWS since 1992? Like many of us...



That sounds about right. Still, I'm not tempted to switch. 

I have Reaper (feels like a toy) and Cubendo (chaos, confusion, and crashes) and DP (bogworthy)... and of course ProTools (not suitable for big MIDI) and Ableton (used for loop munging and as a grain-stretching workstation, but unsuitable for complex tempo and timecode applications)... but I'm staying right here.

I've gotten so quick on Logic that it just doesn't make sense to try to switch - not to mention the fact that I do everything in EXS, which is so efficient that I never have single-core issues like I would if I used Kontakt or Play. Every few months I convert my template into an all-Kontakt+VEP setup and give the other DAWs a try... but I keep coming back. 

I'm not afraid of Logic X turning into GarageBandPro... not at all. 

I, for one, welcome our Cupertino overlords!


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## NYC Composer (Sep 9, 2011)

charlieclouser @ Fri Sep 09 said:


> I've switched sequencers enough in my life:
> 
> Sequential Circuits C-64 cartridge (playing live all-MIDI gigs with 2 identical C-64s to play from one while the other loaded the next song from the 1541 floppy drive)...
> 
> ...



Right. For me, Oberheim hardware sequencer as part of "The System", Dr T for Commodore, Southworth's Total Music( crashed as often as it worked), Vision, Vision tied to Pro Tool3 on two computers ( I skipped Studio Vision and went that route instead) then Cubase VST in '97, stayed there through the growing pains.

However, in the interim, I learned a bit of DP for a client who used it, a bit of Pro Tools as it was part of an old rig, a bit of Reaper to see what the deal was. It just seems like too much work to switch main DAWS-especially when it seemed they all had strengths and weaknesses, so here I am still on Cubase and relatively happy.


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## EastWest Lurker (Sep 9, 2011)

Exactly, Charlie and Larry.

I have only used 3: Notator on the Atari, Logic on the Mac, and a little bit of ProTools. But since it would take me literally hundreds of hours to become as facile with another as I am with Logic, and since I take as a given that there would be things I would like better but things I would not, the only incentives would be if in the long run it would save me hundreds of hours or someone were to say, "Jay, I have some great paying work for you but you would have to do it with Application X."


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 9, 2011)

If the part about Waveburner being incorporated is correct, that would suggest to me that they're modeling Samplitude/Sequoia which for years has enabled users to burn Red Book standard CDs within the programs while continuing to work. 

So that would be a very powerful update, as would improving the audio editing.


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## whinecellar (Sep 9, 2011)

Peter Alexander @ Fri Sep 09 said:


> that would be a very powerful update, as would improving the audio editing.



Not to mention incorporating Soundtrack Pro as well - that app does some scary stuff and to have that directly under the hood would be incredible! One can dream...

After 18 years of hard-core Logic use I can honestly say I'm thrilled with the present state of the app, other than a few bugs and workflow issues. Can't count how many times I've requested drop-down folders... If they did nothing but optimize core distribution, add drop-down folders and fix some bugs, I'd be satisfied for a LONG time...


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## EastWest Lurker (Sep 9, 2011)

whinecellar @ Fri Sep 09 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Fri Sep 09 said:
> 
> 
> > that would be a very powerful update, as would improving the audio editing.
> ...



You mean Soundtrack Amateur IMHO. That thing is buggy as all crap and has some incredibly stupid workflow method. I don't want to see very much, other than being able to view and edit multiple audio files in the Sample Editor, added to Logic's code personally.


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## whinecellar (Sep 9, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Sep 09 said:


> You mean Soundtrack Amateur IMHO. That thing is buggy as all crap and has some incredibly stupid workflow method.



That may be, Jay. I don't use it much, but the multi-layered nondestructive aspects for sound design & post were pretty cool, as were the simple drag & drop FX processing.



EastWest Lurker @ Fri Sep 09 said:


> ...being able to view and edit multiple audio files in the Sample Editor



Indeed, but take it one step further: lose the Sample Editor altogether and just roll it into the Arrange window! I don't see the point of having a separate audio editor these days... it just creates more steps than necessary. Along the same lines, lose the waveform/region zoom limits in the Arrange window...


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## midphase (Sep 9, 2011)

Peter Alexander @ Fri Sep 09 said:


> If the part about Waveburner being incorporated is correct, that would suggest to me that they're modeling Samplitude/Sequoia which for years has enabled users to burn Red Book standard CDs within the programs while continuing to work.



Yeeeeweeee...there is nothing that I find myself wishing for more than the ability of burning CD's from within Logic!!!


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## madbulk (Sep 9, 2011)

Dropdown folders would be nice. Sample editing in the arrange would be really nice. And greater use of cores. 
But really, I'll be dancing with the one that brung me until Cupertino shutters the whole thing.
I suspect all this LP-X = garageband stuff is just FCP overhang. The pro apps demise has been a rumor for years and years now. It just ebbs and flows.


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## dcoscina (Sep 9, 2011)

It would be nice for Logic X to have track folders like DP. Oh, while I'm at it, it would be great if Logic adopted DP's Takes as well. I personally hate the way Logic treats takes in its current state. Blech! Then again, I don't think any other DAW aside from DP has this. I was looking around for it in PT9 but couldn't find it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 9, 2011)

> Cupertino overlords



hahahaha


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 9, 2011)

Redbook CD?!

I vaguely remember some stupid round plastic thing with a feeble surface painted on it...but that went out of date *months* ago.

Where's the Redbook MP4?


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## dinerdog (Sep 9, 2011)

Nevermind all that, where's Putte?


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## drasticmeasures (Sep 9, 2011)

I've been using Logic since I started....version 2 I think...

I gotta admit, was getting frustrated with what I perceived to be a journey towards "garageband pro" and gave Cubase a try. 
It made me appreciate Logic a bit more.

Cubase has some features that are more advanced, but I found the GUI and workflow very....unintuitive.

So while I AM concerned with Logic assimilating and becoming "iLogic", I gotta admit Apple hasn't steered us TOO wrong so far.

(Remember when the menu in logic was still badly converted German and didn't actually make sense? You had to just "know' what that selection/key command actually meant.)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 10, 2011)

They've also made it a lot less prone to intangible corruption as soon as you get far into a session. To me that's the biggest improvement in v.9.

...that and the "click on the waveform to move the freaking cursor here duh" tool that was missing for so long.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 10, 2011)

Marquee.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 10, 2011)

Budder.


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 27, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Sep 09 said:


> You mean Soundtrack Amateur IMHO. That thing is buggy as all crap and has some incredibly stupid workflow method.



Totally agree about the bugs, but it does have some features that I'd love to see in Logic. Not to mention that it does some things that Logic doesn't do at all like destructive audio file editing (including applescript implementation that can be used for batch conversion).

STP was obviously abandoned long ago but I still use it for some things and I would like to see the best parts of it added to Logic.



whinecellar @ Fri Sep 09 said:


> That may be, Jay. I don't use it much, but the multi-layered nondestructive aspects for sound design & post were pretty cool, as were the simple drag & drop FX processing.



Agreed, it especially stands out for audio work other than music. Shame they dumped it instead of fixing the problems, if they put in the effort I think it could have been a real contender. I guess now maybe I'll check out what Adobe is offering?



whinecellar @ Fri Sep 09 said:


> Indeed, but take it one step further: lose the Sample Editor altogether and just roll it into the Arrange window! I don't see the point of having a separate audio editor these days... it just creates more steps than necessary. Along the same lines, lose the waveform/region zoom limits in the Arrange window...



Agreed again, I know it's cliché to say "make it more like Pro Tools" but...make it more like pro tools.


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