# K2 Expression not working



## Toddk (Feb 18, 2007)

Working in K2, suddenly, the expression doesnt respond.

In K 1.5 there was an options page where you could control the behavior
of expression, but i cant find it in K2.

Can anybody help me?? I have a feeling its something simple im missing.

Thanks for any help.
TK


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## michel (Feb 18, 2007)

You can set up the expression (CC#11) here...

Instrument>Amplifier>Modulation>Add Modulator>External Sources>MIDI CC

After choosing MIDI CC, you can control the intensity with the slider.


Do you mean this option?


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## Toddk (Feb 18, 2007)

So i have to do that manually for every instrument i load??

Strange, ive been drawing expression into my sequences up to now,
and it worked fine, then suddenly it stopped. Except for my Gold library.
For Gold in K2, the expression works fine. I dont understand why, and 
that bothers me.
Something's going on, but i have no idea what.

I definately hadnt been to that part of the menu before.

So i just set the midi cc to 11# ? Why do the instruments not respond
to default CC# right off the bat? I dont get it.

Still struggling to understand K2. I should go take a class or something.
I feel like an idiot every time i open the editor. :x :cry:


Well, i tried what you said, and it doesnt work.

Now what ?


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## Tod (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi Toddk,

Some libraries and or instruments come without cc11 assigned.

Nearly all, if not all EW-Gold has it, so open one of your Gold instrumemts and check it out.


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## Toddk (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi Tod,

First of all, great name. Love it. :lol: 

Ok, that makes some sense, thank you. Im gonna do some more probing.

Thanks Thanks Thanks!!! :mrgreen: 

TK


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## Scott Cairns (Feb 18, 2007)

Hey Todd, once you assign expression to an instrument, by default it will be off. (at least for me it is) You then have to move the slider to kick CC11 into action.

I have to do this with some older libs I converted to Kontakt like SOV and QLRI.


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## Nickie Fønshauge (Feb 18, 2007)

Scott Cairns @ 18th February 2007 said:


> Hey Todd, once you assign expression to an instrument, by default it will be off. (at least for me it is) You then have to move the slider to kick CC11 into action.
> 
> I have to do this with some older libs I converted to Kontakt like SOV and QLRI.


Scott, you can set an initial value in the little box to the left of the rescaling slider. In older libraries it is probably -1, which is "undefined". You can assign a value between 0 and 100%.


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## Scott Cairns (Feb 18, 2007)

Ah, thanks Nickie. Thats good to know. :wink:


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## Toddk (Feb 18, 2007)

Well, i followed the path described in this thread, and its not working.

Went to Amplifier/Modulation/add modulator/ midi CC

Then i move the Expression slider, and nothing happens.

I tried entering various values into the boxes, (wich are unmarked btw WTF? :x 

Anyway, it really shouldnt be this difficult to get expression to work.

Sorry to have to keep bugging you guys with this K2 stuff. :oops: 

Any more help is appreciated! Thanks guys.

TK


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## Toddk (Mar 4, 2007)

Well, i followed the path described in this thread, 

Went to Amplifier/Modulation/add modulator/ midi CC 

The thing is, im using a Combonation instrument, so i need modulation
to change articulations.

When i do what you describe, my Modulation wheel controls expression.

So the expression is working, but now, how do i switch articulations?

My mod wheel is now controling expression. Im lost.. :oops: :cry: 

TK







TK


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## Toddk (Mar 4, 2007)

Correction, i cant get it to work at all now.

Unbelievable. :lol:


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## Tod (Mar 4, 2007)

Hi Todd,

Sounds like you applied cc1 rather than cc11 as a modulator. I think cc11 is kind of the universall cc# for expression. Your Mod wheel is cc1. Most controllers have a means of assigning a slide fader for cc11.

I'm sorry, I didn't see your earlier post. :oops: 

Tod


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## Toddk (Mar 4, 2007)

It works for single instruments, but for mod wheel instruments, nothing happens.

Im still not super sure of what im doing. 

TK


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## Tod (Mar 4, 2007)

When you you put in the cc# value for the modulator on the Amplifier are you putting in number 11. If you putting in number 1 then you're assigning your mod wheel to control the Amplifier volume and although that will work if your Mod Wheel isn't used anywhere else in the instrument, what you relly want to do is assign cc11.

Tod


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## Nickie Fønshauge (Mar 4, 2007)

Don't forget to check the groups, that are to be modulated. The modulation assignment only pertains to the groups, that have check marks at the time of assignment.


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## Toddk (Mar 4, 2007)

Nickie Fønshauge @ Sun Mar 04 said:


> Don't forget to check the groups, that are to be modulated. The modulation assignment only pertains to the groups, that have check marks at the time of assignment.



I have no idea what that means.

Anyway, now im having another problem. Keyswitches arent working now.

This is for Chamber Strings (VSL) btw. The Keyswitches only work when
i hit them for the keyboard controller. When i write in keyswitch notes in
the piano roll, they dont do anything. It just stays on the last articulation
i hit from the keyboard.

Ive been having more problems than not, with these Chamber Strings for K2.

I cant say i reccomend them. Big pain.
TK


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## dach (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't have that VSL package so this may not help much but just to state the obvious, make sure your Nuendo (I think that's what you use) preferences have not changed ie: midi preferences and filters. You may also want to reset K2's engine just to be sure - also make sure the prefs there have not changed either.

Everyone's advice so far has been spot on. Do the keyswitches still work for Gold?

Good luck....


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## synergy543 (Mar 4, 2007)

Todd, I think Nickie's comment is the link you're likely missing. Don't gloss over this or you'll be endlessly frustrated. Its well worth spending a few minutes reading the manual to learn how groups work. Most programs are made up of different "groups" and you can edit ALL the groups at once, or one at a time. But if you're editing one group while you're sound is coming from another group, you not only won't get the results you want, but you'll muck up your program.

In fact, its so frickin frustrating listening to you bang your head on the wall all day, mines starting to hurt too. >8o So....for starters try this:

1) Click the wrench icon to edit the program.

2) Click on the "Group Editor" button to view the various groups the patch uses. 

3) Below the Group Editor button, you'll see a red Edit All Groups button. This is *RED* for a reason - pay attention to its state when you edit. Obviously having it on will affect all groups as you edit - this is most likely what you want when changing modulation settings and controllers.

4) Now, turn the red Edit All Groups button off and click on one of the groups below. Now you're editing only a single group.

5) Press the Group Solo button to play "only" that group. Next to view it.....

6) Now press the Mapping Editor button and you'll see the mapping of your program. But it show all the groups. To isolate a single group.....

7) Press the Selected Groups Only button. Now the mapping show only the isolated group you are editing.

Pretty cool huh? Now teach us how to play a convincing Bulerías compas and falsettas with our samplers. o/~ 

I hope that helps "lesson" your confusion. :roll: 

Greg


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## Toddk (Mar 4, 2007)

Synergy,
Thanks for taking the time to explain.
Im headed to bed after a long frustrating day, but im going to
stare at your post for a long time in the morning, when my mind has
recovered from today.

Thank you!
TK


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## Toddk (Mar 5, 2007)

Well, i figured out my Keyswitch problem.

I cant believe im such an idiot :lol: 

Dach's mention of preferences in Nuendo was the ticket.

I finally realized that the sequence i was writing keyswitch notes in, was
transposed down an octave.

So as im thinking i was entering CO, C#O, etc, i was actually entering 

C-1 0 , C#-1 0 , etc DUH!! ~o) 

Still struggling with getting the expression to work for certain Chamber string
patches. 
The basic instrument patches, like straight up sustains, seem to work no problem.
I just add a modulator and set it to cc11 and boom.

But with Performance patches and combonation patches, in wich the modwheel
is pre-assigned to be doing various tasks, i cant get expression to take effect.
Im *definately* using the *identical* steps as i do for the basic patches.
So im pretty baffled. Hopefully a breakthrough will come soon. I need one! :( 

I will be sitting here reading Synergy's post repeatedly, until it starts to sink in
i suppose.

I really cant thank you guys enough for putting up with my non manual reading
butt. :oops: :mrgreen: o-[][]-o 

No doubt, i will be asking more questions tonite.

As for Bulerias and Sampers, well, :lol: :lol: haha, they are akin to Oil and Water. :lol: 
TK


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## Tod (Mar 5, 2007)

Hi Todd,

Performance instruments that use the Mod Wheel a lot might also have the Mod Wheel assigned to manipulate the volume. If so then the Mod Wheel and cc11 might be competeing against each other.

Check which modulators have been assigned to each group to see if cc1 is there also.

Tod


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## Toddk (Mar 5, 2007)

Ok, for instance, the Viola perf legato slow portamento. This is a combonation
of slow legato and portamento depending on where the mod wheel is positioned.

Just so you know, my keyboard has a mod wheel AND an assignable slider.

The slider is assigned of course to CC11, so .. 

TK


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## synergy543 (Mar 5, 2007)

Hi Todd,

I tried the Viola Perf Leg Slow and it does NOT have CC11 initially set up. So here's a little one-minute 432k low-rez Kontakt 2 VSL Chamber Strings CC#11 tutorial:

(You need the latest Quicktime as this uses H.264 compression - if you can't see it, let me know but the real movie is 12M and I heavily compressed it down to 432k - kinda neat.)

http://home.comcast.net/~synergy543/K2_CC11_H264.mov


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## Toddk (Mar 6, 2007)

>8o YES!!!! =o Synergy, you are THE MAN! Thank you!

Well, i totally owe you some free flamenco guitar video lessons.

So what would you like to learn?? You name it.. Im serious..


What can i say? I really appreciate you taking the time to do that. 
Wow.... 
So i get it now, these perf programs have multiple groups. No wonder what
i was doing before wasnt working. Thanks to you, im finally starting to understand
K2. Its been elusive for me so far, but today is definatly a breakthrough.

Cant thank you enough! Dont forget to give you your lesson request!! :mrgreen: 

TK


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## synergy543 (Mar 6, 2007)

Todd, I'm just glad I could help. I used to play flamenco and have stacks of handwritten music. I had to sell my Ramirez guitar for money. When I hear flamenco, I sometimes think about going back. If I ever do, I'll most certainly contact you about lessons.

Cheers,

Greg


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## bowserlm (Apr 26, 2007)

Hey, I know that VSL Opus doesn't have CC11 assigned by default, and I'm also familiar with how to assign it. I'm having a different problem. I HAVE to use CC11 instead of CC7 (midi volume) because I make extensive use of instrument banks and program changes, and Kontakt 2.1 has a bug where only the instrument in the FIRST program slot responds to CC7, the rest of them don't. They WILL respond to CC11, but this is a HUGE pain because I have to go in and manualy program CC11 into every instrument of my orchestral template (which is about 150 instruments or so).

This isn't the worst thing, but my problem is that many of my instruments are also multi-layered mod wheel instruments, so the Mod wheel controls the volume of individual groups, to allow for dynamics with real dynamic articulations. I perhaps have found another bug though, because when I go to the group editor and make sure "edit all groups" is clicked, I then go to Amplifier and add a modulator that controls volume and change it to CC11, the thing is, EVERY other group someone swapped CC numbers and the 11 is now assigned to the modulator that controlled the individual group volume for the modwheel program. This doesn't happen for the group that is selected, (and yes, all groups are on). 

I hope all of this makes sense. I'm writing this because, because of this bug, adding CC11 to every frickin program (something I have to do anyway) now takes 10 times longer because I have to go through and look for those little glitches that it does. I'm so tired of Kontakt having a little frickin glitch for everything.


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## Nickie Fønshauge (Apr 26, 2007)

bowserlm @ 26th April 2007 said:


> I HAVE to use CC11 instead of CC7 (midi volume) because I make extensive use of instrument banks and program changes, and Kontakt 2.1 has a bug where only the instrument in the FIRST program slot responds to CC7, the rest of them don't.


I am not quite sure what you mean. Does CC#7 data not reach these slots or do they not respond to CC#7 at all, not even script generated CC#7 data? If they do respond to script generated CC#7 data, then how about a script, that converts CC#11 into CC#7?


```
on init
end on

on controller
  if ($CC_NUM = 11)
    ignore_controller
    set_controller (7,%CC[$CC_NUM])
  end if
end on
```


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## bowserlm (Apr 29, 2007)

Actually, that script worked and was very helpful. I'm running into a few more minor problems, but they are problems with my host, Nuendo, right now, in reacting to the expression automation and whatnot. I am using the automation lanes in nuendo, to draw in the volume curves, but for some reason, Kontakt is seeming to "forget" where the automation curve is, and sometimes during playback, the volume will just jump back to its default position and be much louder than it should.

The way I've solved the problem temporarily is to use the "parabola" line drawing tool, and draw just a straight line, that is slightly not straight, to give more automation Points to "remind" Kontakt where the curve should be. As you can see, this really just seems like a temporary solution and is really kind of a pain in the butt. does anyone have any insight into this problem?


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