# Logic 10.3 is here



## Wunderhorn

Notes:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718

Thoughts, experiences?


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## samphony

and as requested Track based alternatives and selection based bounce in place was added as well as 256 Busses instead of 64.

Plug-in side chain menus now display full routing information for busses, as is done on channel sends.
The repeat function now works for Marquee selections, and for Time Handles in the Piano Roll.

If the playhead is within the bounds of a selected region, a Piano Roll area or window with Content Link mode enabled will consistently show the area around the playhead.

Undoing the loading of a patch no longer causes samples on other Kontakt instruments to be unexpectedly reloaded.
Tracks created inside a Summing Stack by clicking the + button in the Track Header are now correctly routed to the summing bus.

It is now possible to copy/paste only the plug-ins or only the sends of a channel strip.

Busses are now listed by name rather than number when the Send or Output slot is clicked.

Bus labels in the Send and Output menus now show the assigned routing.

Busses used for track stack routing are now grouped in a sub-menu labeled with the name of the stack.

Software instruments can now be directly used as Side Chain inputs.
How plug-in side chain settings affect audio is now audible when bouncing a track in place.

Bounced regions now reliably maintain user created names, and when added to a track, the track is named for the region as expected.
When exporting tracks, regions or selections as audio files various new options allow to set up custom file names.

Capture Recording now properly merges with existing regions when the Project Recording setting for Cycle mode is set to Merge.

The Play from Selection key command now responds to selected Flex pitched notes in an audio region.
Zoom to fit key commands now work properly when used on a marquee selected area.
When splitting a region with Clip Length on that contains MIDI CC data that is all to the left side of the split, the new region to the right of the split point now includes a MIDI CC message of the correct value to ensure it plays back the same as before the split.
Crossfades can now be applied to multiple selected regions by swiping from right to left. 
Fade in and Fade outs can now be applied to multiple selected regions on the same track with the Fade Tool.

The Toggle Zoom to fit selection or All Contents key command now works was expected with selected Track Stack containers.
The effect of changes made to the region gain while in play will now be heard without having to start and stop playback
Nice improvements.

Has anyone tested if AU3 is implemented yet?


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## Ashermusic

It's a good one.




.


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## gsilbers

ita a lot stuff on the main link.

no AUv3 though. oh well.

does it have multiple cc lane editing?

and whats the deal with 64 bit mix engine? I remember pro tools flaunting this a while ago. does it create better sounding mixes? more headroom?


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## ctsai89

It's good that logic is coming with some new features again. 

More importantly though, any known new bugs?


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## TGV

Here's the management summary: https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/18/appl...ch-bar-garageband-icloud-true-stereo-panning/. Stand-outs for me are:
- Selection-based Processing ... lets you try out effects for any audio region
- a new Track Alternatives feature that builds on Take Folders, allowing you to create and try out _playlists _of regions and edits for any of your tracks.
And the Alchemy updates.

Wow.


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## samphony

here was the feature request regarding track alternatives that i've posted 3 years ago 

so yes they listen.
https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=106976&hilit=alternative

You know it takes so long because if a fly talks to a whale ....


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## samphony

ctsai89 said:


> It's good that logic is coming with some new features again.
> 
> More importantly though, any known new bugs?



• it's again possible to create music again


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## ctsai89

anyone know if logic pro 9 still runs good on OS sierra? i miss it badly :( 

but time to download x 3.0!


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## Soundhound

Track alternatives. Yes!


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## Mr. Ha

What do you guys think about the new design? I kind of knew it was gonna look something like this, but having used the previous version every day for a long time, it'll take some time to getting used to... 

Also, any bugs?


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## Christof

True stereo panning, that means when I adjust the pan knob it changes the position, not only the volume as before right?


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## synthpunk

You mean X overall, or has 10.3 taken a turn ?



Mr. Ha said:


> What do you guys think about the new design? I kind of knew it was gonna look something like this, but having used the previous version every day for a long time, it'll take some time to getting used to...
> 
> Also, any bugs?


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## samphony

Its working snappier and I like the new design.


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## Ashermusic

Christof said:


> True stereo panning, that means when I adjust the pan knob it changes the position, not only the volume as before right?




Correct. It now does most of what the Direction Mixer does without having to instantiate the Direction Mixer plug-in.


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## Musicam

Any video on youtube now?


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## desert

Hopefully they added a key command shortcut to open up the channel plugin


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## Ashermusic

Mr. Ha said:


> What do you guys think about the new design? I kind of knew it was gonna look something like this, but having used the previous version every day for a long time, it'll take some time to getting used to...
> 
> Also, any bugs?



Love it, much easier on the eyes.


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## synthpunk

Quick screen shot please ?



Ashermusic said:


> Love it, much easier on the eyes.


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## Ashermusic




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## desert

"Editing the time signature in the LCD now changes the current time signature rather than adding a new one at the current playhead position."

Finally!


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## autopilot

synthpunk said:


> Quick screen shot please ?


In the app store dude


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## Christof

Ashermusic said:


> Correct. It now does most of what the Direction Mixer does without having to instantiate the Direction Mixer plug-in.


Finally after all these years, a small revolution.
But I am still missing multiple CC lanes in the piano roll.
I would pay for this feature!


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## gsilbers

Ashermusic said:


>



yeah.. garageband pro


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## Musicam

Amazing! Watch this!


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## lpuser

ctsai89 said:


> anyone know if logic pro 9 still runs good on OS sierra? i miss it badly :(



Logic Pro 9 runs perfectly fine in Sierra over here. And this shows that it is in fact possible to develop software which does not require one of the two latest major OS releases


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## Ashermusic

gsilbers said:


> yeah.. garageband pro



It certainly has been their goal to make the two more similar but as someone who has been using this for a couple of weeks it is a big improvement. Just look at how much better the fonts look.


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## Musicam

Christof said:


> Finally after all these years, a small revolution.
> But I am still missing multiple CC lanes in the piano roll.
> I would pay for this feature!


Do you think that Apple read us? I believe  Apple listen.


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## Ashermusic

Musicam said:


> Do you think that Apple read us? I believe  Apple listen.



They know.


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## Musicam

One more time:


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## Wunderhorn

Still waiting for

- Simultaneous piano roll editing of several tracks (e.g. like Photoshop layers)
- Multiple CC lanes
- New AU format with getting rid of the old MIDI limitations

Alternative tracks sound great but not sure how much use it is when you edit mostly MIDI regions. The way I would like it is if a region could be a drop down menu of however many alternate versions of that particular region you have. You create a region and can assign it to the drop down holding space and of those you could specify which is the active one.
That would make composing easier less cluttered with extra lanes full of muted regions hanging around.

Besides that I am liking how much attention to detail was paid in this and recent updates.


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## alexmshore

Nice update. Also really hoping we see multiple cc lanes for the piano roll editor someday..


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## Musicam

Apple listen please  

Simultaneous piano roll editing of several tracks (e.g. like Photoshop layers)
- Multiple CC lanes
- New AU format with getting rid of the old MIDI limitations


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## Musicam

Wunderhorn said:


> Still waiting for
> 
> - Simultaneous piano roll editing of several tracks (e.g. like Photoshop layers)
> - Multiple CC lanes
> - New AU format with getting rid of the old MIDI limitations
> 
> Alternative tracks sound great but not sure how much use it is when you edit mostly MIDI regions. The way I would like it is if a region could be a drop down menu of however many alternate versions of that particular region you have. You create a region and can assign it to the drop down holding space and of those you could specify which is the active one.
> That would make composing easier less cluttered with extra lanes full of muted regions hanging around.
> 
> Besides that I am liking how much attention to detail was paid in this and recent updates.


Great!


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## desert

Musicam said:


> Great!


There's a "like" button for a reason, mate. Stop double posting


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## synthpunk

TX Jay, looks strangely like 10.2  which I'm fine with.


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## Vik

Wunderhorn said:


> Still waiting for
> 
> - Simultaneous piano roll editing of several tracks (e.g. like Photoshop layers)



What about this solution?







Regarding track alternatives, this solution is good enough for me, and more clean/uncluttered than region version easily could end up with.






There's also Takes folders which pretty much could be used they way you describe, no?


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## jonnybutter

Looks like a *great* update to me.


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## synthpunk

As always you can provide Apple feedback, requests, bug reports, etc for Logic Pro here. And as Jay mentions they do listen
http://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html


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## galactic orange

Ashermusic said:


> Correct. It now does most of what the Direction Mixer does without having to instantiate the Direction Mixer plug-in.


If this means I can use my Nektar P1 dedicated pan knobs to do true stereo panning then this is opens up a much easier workflow for me. (No more direction mixer necessary which means no more switching from the mixing page to effects page.)


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## Mr. Ha

synthpunk said:


> You mean X overall, or has 10.3 taken a turn ?


I meant the 10.3 update. My computer is rather old and has some issues so I'm cautious with updates...

The track alternative feature seems pretty useful though


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## pdub

Love the new features. Don't love the new look. Feels really washed out now and the text isn't as crisp. I was a fan of the darker look and more vibrant colors.


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## mc_deli

3 things stand out that could make my life a helluva lot easier:

-open / close all tracks stacks  (i asked for that)
-improved scrolling performance on big projects with lots of regions (if this means i can drag and drop with no pain...)
-top 5 recent plug ins (at last less menu diving)


...the new takes, rubber banding multiple tracks' automation, hmm interesting too

...but no locked mixer views (i had to mention it!)


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## Nick Batzdorf

When is Apple the iPhone company going to take their professional users seriously? It's clear they don't care about Logic.


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## mc_deli

Default settings for track header... Does that mean my on:off buttons will stop disappearing?


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## samphony

Nick Batzdorf said:


> When is Apple the iPhone company going to take their professional users seriously? It's clear they don't care about Logic.


I'm so frustrated whenever I try to create and compose it's working as expected. Whenever I play and record instruments it sounds like music. Why is that I don't understand.

I wanna trouble shoot and not make music. I should send feedback.
Please developers stop improving and ad more loops! Please I'm begging you....


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## gsilbers

Oh, I need to upgrade to El Capitan :(

I will loose pro tools hd 9 :(

I would of also liked:

a folder management function for the track stacks. (Like cubase)

A select view of the channels so I can select brass and go to those tracks.(like cubase)

Right click and assign midi control by touching the controller
(Like ableton)

Audio units version 3 so I can go more than 16 channels per interment. ( like vst3)

I've already submitted apple feedback but then again, iphone.

Not sure if I'll take the plunge yet. Most of these features are okey-ish but nothing great.

Also the up-the-ass forced upgrade. They could of clearly made it compatible with Yosemite but they sure need to sell their new touch bar laptop.

Damn I'm disgruntled! 
At least it's an update, which alsways seems to coincide with namm so maybe next year?


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## LamaRose

If Apple was really listening they would have remedied the CPU core distribution/usage long ago... so surprise me and tell me it's at least improved.


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## whinecellar

As usual, a ton of great steps forward, and a few back. WHY, OH WHY, must software for creatives be dumbed down to almost cartoon-like visuals?!? The GUI flattening has got to stop. Now even subtle shading is gone. It doesn't need a faux-hardware GUI, but must it look like Ableton Live?! There's got to be a happy middle ground...

Rant over - looks like another stellar update otherwise


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## desert

whinecellar said:


> As usual, a ton of great steps forward, and a few back. WHY, OH WHY, must software for creatives be dumbed down to almost cartoon-like visuals?!? The GUI flattening has got to stop. Now even subtle shading is gone. It doesn't need a faux-hardware GUI, but must it look like Ableton Live?! There's got to be a happy middle ground...
> 
> Rant over - looks like another stellar update otherwise


Yes! I ca't stand how they made it look like a childs version of garage band


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## synthpunk

Thank God for the ignore feature


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## Ashermusic

LamaRose said:


> If Apple was really listening they would have remedied the CPU core distribution/usage long ago... so surprise me and tell me it's at least improved.








It already _was_ in the last version with a new preference, Playback & Live Tracks. Core distribution is better with it although overall CPU taxing is somewhat greater from what I have seen.


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## Ashermusic

whinecellar said:


> As usual, a ton of great steps forward, and a few back. WHY, OH WHY, must software for creatives be dumbed down to almost cartoon-like visuals?!? The GUI flattening has got to stop. Now even subtle shading is gone. It doesn't need a faux-hardware GUI, but must it look like Ableton Live?! There's got to be a happy middle ground...
> 
> Rant over - looks like another stellar update otherwise



Could not disagree more. After using it for a couple of weeks it is so much easier on the eyes that I would never want to go back. It is also far more customizable.


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## Christof

Now when I open a plug in window it first shows me the controls view and not the editor view (usual GUI) as before the update.
Anyone having the same issue?


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## synthpunk

There is also a new update for Logic Remote. You will need ios 9.3 minimum.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logic-remote/id638394624?mt=8


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## Christof

Christof said:


> Now when I open a plug in window it first shows me the controls view and not the editor view (usual GUI) as before the update.
> Anyone having the same issue?


EDIT:I found the setting to change it.


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## Simon Ravn

Nice things in this update for sure.

But WHY OH WHY did they have to change the font and make it smaller and thinner, to the point where it is almost close to unreadable (and jagged)?! This is on a 4K monitor. It was perfect before, now it's an eyesore and seemingly no way to turn in back to what it was.

On the other hand, they made a lot of the icons much bigger - hurrayyy...

BTW surprised to see such a great development of Logic nowadays actually, I mean now that Apple are not making pro computers anymore, it's odd (but great!) that they continue development of Logic...


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## Mr. Ha

According to Apple.com, the new update has some speed improvements. Can anyone confirm that?


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## jonathanwright

Very pleased with this update so far, with a lot of useful enhancements.

Buried amongst all the headline features is the ability to assign key commands to user transform sets, which (for me) is a huge workflow improvement.


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## Living Fossil

gsilbers said:


> Also the up-the-ass forced upgrade. They could of clearly made it compatible with Yosemite but they sure need to sell their new touch bar laptop.



Indeed, that's a bummer. However, i guess i will continue using Yosemite and Logic 10.2.4.
Sierra would require Omnisphere 2; while Ominisphere 1 has everything i need from Omnisphere.
Not sure if Ozone 5 works on Sierra; while Ozone 7 is my go to version, Ozone 5 still has functions i don't want to lose.


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## SillyMidOn

Christof said:


> But I am still missing multiple CC lanes in the piano roll.
> I would pay for this feature!


Yes indeed - why on earth don't they have that...


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## TGV

mc_deli said:


> -top 5 recent plug ins (at last less menu diving)


You know you can create your own menus with the plugin manager, right? Just create a group with your favorites, and put it first.


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## Musicam

Logic X is a standard.


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## Kaufmanmoon

Trying the Track alternatives as thought this would be really handy.
For some reason though, I'll start a 'B' Option. Work on that for a while and go back to 'A' and it's disappeared.
Think i'll leave that for a while.


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## samphony

Mr. Ha said:


> According to Apple.com, the new update has some speed improvements. Can anyone confirm that?



Yes screen redraw is much snappier in my opinion. But I'm using Darth Pro.


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## Mr. Ha

Is it possible to revert to 10.2.4 after having updated to 10.3?


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## Baron Greuner

^^^^^^

same please.


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## babylonwaves

Mr. Ha said:


> Is it possible to revert to 10.2.4 after having updated to 10.3?


just make a copy of Logic 10.2.4 and rename it to something else ("Logic 10.2.4" for instance  ). then update to 10.3 - you can have both versions installed simultaneously.


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## whinecellar

Ashermusic said:


> Could not disagree more. After using it for a couple of weeks it is so much easier on the eyes that I would never want to go back. It is also far more customizable.


To be fair, I haven't used it yet, and I'm sure it will be fine - just a personal preference. And yeah, reading through the new improvement list, there are quite a few things I've been begging the developers for for a while – and thrilled to see they addressed some customizability requests as well! Ironically for all the complaints about Apple, nobody can say they aren't listening


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## Raindog

Quite interesting how the personal view can be different. I have been a long-term user of Cubase (starting in the days of the C64 where the program was called Pro-24!!).

I recently sold my copy because of the switch to Logic. Using a Macbook pro as my main Computer the audio performance of Logic is far superior compared to Cubase Pro (first time in my live I could use a 64 buffer setting without crackles). The provided plugins are very useful and I decided to skip the few remaining 32 bit plugins I used with Cubase 8.5 (9.0 is 64 bit only).
The new track versions feature (which I used a lot in Cubase) is working as expected and Logic remote is a pure joy (opening the app, clicking connect and voila, instant control of Logic on the iPad even in the neighbouring room)

The workflow with Logic is (for me) much easier as Cubase (imo) has become overloaden with new features over the years most of which I personally didn´t use a lot. So Logic seems to be more useful for me as I can concentrate on making music. But the major point in favour of Logic remains the audio performance when playing virtual instruments. Cubase just sucked with my MacBook though I have a decent thunderbolt Interface.

The only feature I miss so far is Cubase´s control room feature as I use correction plugins for headphones as well as monitors. Things got a little bit more complicated now.

Raindog


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## Tinpig

This update looks fab, just started using it this morning on a test computer and all is running well. Anyone used it yet with VEP 6 and if so how's it behaving?


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## Ashermusic

Tinpig said:


> This update looks fab, just started using it this morning on a test computer and all is running well. Anyone used it yet with VEP 6 and if so how's it behaving?




Just fine, here with VE Pro on my Mac and slave PC.


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## Tinpig

Ashermusic said:


> Just fine, here with VE Pro on my Mac and slave PC.


Blimey Mr Asher your up early!!! That's great to know, I'll get the update done on my main system today.


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## Christof

I have more crashes than ever before...


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## Baron Greuner

^^^^^^^

Uh-Oh


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## Vik

Christof said:


> I have more crashes than ever before...


Do you get crash reports which say something about what it was that crashed Logic?


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## vewilya

It's very stable on my system. One master machine and two slaves (pc and macpro). I do like this update a lot. Visually improved. I couldn't stand 10.2.4. And it feels snappy. Mind you I work with quite a big template on a movie right now. So not just a couple of tracks and it is working smoothly. Region-based processing is great!! And I think the panning options are just very cool. AU3 will come I am sure. As will track management and other things. If you set it up right Logic is a powerhouse really!! It really is.


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## jonathanwright

I've been having a lot of crashes on save, and I've narrowed it down to the TDR Kotelnikov compressor and Steinberg Padshop.


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## Mr. Ha

vewilya said:


> It's very stable on my system. One master machine and two slaves (pc and macpro). I do like this update a lot. Visually improved. I couldn't stand 10.2.4. And it feels snappy. Mind you I work with quite a big template on a movie right now. So not just a couple of tracks and it is working smoothly. Region-based processing is great!! And I think the panning options are just very cool. AU3 will come I am sure. As will track management and other things. If you set it up right Logic is a powerhouse really!! It really is.


I have a 2011 Macbook Pro with an SSD and 16GBs of ram. The computer works fine, although loudly (fans) with 10.2.4 although there is an odd selection issue (the windows deselect for some reason so I have to click again). Is 10.3 more system heavy or about the same as 2.4?

(I barely use any plug-ins), only Kontakt5 and some free percussion plugin


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## Heinigoldstein

Christof said:


> I have more crashes than ever before...



Same here, a lot of crashes and somehow it feels pretty weak. But I´m not sure if it is LP 10.3. or Sierra. I was on Yosemite up to now.

On other bug: 

If I lower velocity values within the region parameters, let´s say I have values of 10 to 85 and I lower them -11, all my previous 10 jump to 127, when you normalize the region with control "N".


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## robh

Living Fossil said:


> Indeed, that's a bummer. However, i guess i will continue using Yosemite and Logic 10.2.4.
> Sierra would require Omnisphere 2; while Ominisphere 1 has everything i need from Omnisphere.
> Not sure if Ozone 5 works on Sierra; while Ozone 7 is my go to version, Ozone 5 still has functions i don't want to lose.


I'm running Omnisphere 1 on Sierra.

Rob


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## whinecellar

Just 2 big questions for those who have jumped:

1. Does the new 64-bit summing engine involve a noticeable CPU hit?
2. New stereo pan laws - I assume existing mixes sound the same when recalled in 10.3?

Thanks!


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## babylonwaves

whinecellar said:


> 1. Does the new 64-bit summing engine involve a noticeable CPU hit?
> 2. New stereo pan laws - I assume existing mixes sound the same when recalled in 10.3?


1) no, not at all
2) yes, of course


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## Living Fossil

robh said:


> I'm running Omnisphere 1 on Sierra.



That's amazing to hear.
Spectrasonics doesn't mention this on their website.
There was a post suggesting that it would not work:
http://vi-control.net/community/thr...-sierra-installation-woes.57841/#post-4025219


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## TIM_STEVE_97

Using it already!


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## babylonwaves

TIM_STEVE_97 said:


> Using it already!


it is a fantastic feature. so much more overview when you work with divisis spread over multiple sequences. great for drums too.


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## Simon Ravn

babylonwaves said:


> it is a fantastic feature. so much more overview when you work with divisis spread over multiple sequences. great for drums too.



What feature are you talking about here?


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## Vik

My guess is that he's talking about being able to edit and see piano roll for several tracks/regions at the same time.


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## robh

Living Fossil said:


> That's amazing to hear.
> Spectrasonics doesn't mention this on their website.
> There was a post suggesting that it would not work:
> http://vi-control.net/community/thr...-sierra-installation-woes.57841/#post-4025219


From what I read in that thread, it's the installation that may be a problem. I already had it installed when I upgraded to Sierra.

Rob


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## Living Fossil

@robh : Thanks for pointing that out!
In the meantime, izotope wrote me that Ozone 5 should work with Sierra (while i have Ozone7, i still like to use the gate function in the multiband compressor).

Seems, that the remaining problem is the question about touchscreen support (touch-base; updd) on Sierra.


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## mc_deli

I wish people would post system specs


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## thesteelydane

Vik said:


> My guess is that he's talking about being able to edit and see piano roll for several tracks/regions at the same time.


I don't get it - that's always been possible?


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## Simon Ravn

Vik said:


> My guess is that he's talking about being able to edit and see piano roll for several tracks/regions at the same time.



Uhm, but that's not new?


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## Christof

Vik said:


> Do you get crash reports which say something about what it was that crashed Logic?


No, it doesn't really crash, it just hangs with the spinning ball, so I have to force quit.
Thanks God there is autosave!
The crashes appear in different situations, when I open a window for example, or when I want to close a project....randomly.


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## Christof

Vik said:


> My guess is that he's talking about being able to edit and see piano roll for several tracks/regions at the same time.


But thats nothing new!
I use that every day.


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## vewilya

Mr. Ha said:


> I have a 2011 Macbook Pro with an SSD and 16GBs of ram. The computer works fine, although loudly (fans) with 10.2.4 although there is an odd selection issue (the windows deselect for some reason so I have to click again). Is 10.3 more system heavy or about the same as 2.4?
> 
> (I barely use any plug-ins), only Kontakt5 and some free percussion plugin


Hard to say. I have the impression that it uses a tiny itzy bit more overall CPU. But you have to find your optimal adjustments in the settings. I myself have an iMac 2011 i7 3,4 ghz something with 32gb of ram. Most of my instruments are hosted outside of Logic. So... hard to tell. I found the difference to be minimal really. But just copy your logic 10.2.4, zip it and download 10.3. If it doesn't work for you then you fall back to 10.2.4. Better safe than sorry...


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## luke_7

Logic Pro 10.3 works perfect here. (New MacPro El Capitan 10.11.6. Approximately 200 tracks sessions) Actually with new Features it works even better, BIG workflow improvement although i don't like new flat look.


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## Matt Riley

vewilya said:


> Hard to say. I have the impression that it uses a tiny itzy bit more overall CPU. But you have to find your optimal adjustments in the settings. I myself have an iMac 2011 i7 3,4 ghz something with 32gb of ram. Most of my instruments are hosted outside of Logic. So... hard to tell. I found the difference to be minimal really. But just copy your logic 10.2.4, zip it and download 10.3. If it doesn't work for you then you fall back to 10.2.4. Better safe than sorry...


Do you have to zip the old version to achieve this? Can I have and use both versions without zipping one?


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## vewilya

Matt Riley said:


> Do you have to zip the old version to achieve this? Can I have and use both versions without zipping one?


You'll find a backup description here: @apple
I never worked with two versions of LP before. I know some people did it with 9/X. 
I'd be very careful with working on the same project file with two different versions of Logic. So I'd make a seperate file for each Logic. But I'd be very careful with this idea. Wouldn't recommend.


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## RRBE Sound

I do like the new version. But.. Is it just me or is the new design somewhat un-sharp...?


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## Mr. Ha

vewilya said:


> Hard to say. I have the impression that it uses a tiny itzy bit more overall CPU. But you have to find your optimal adjustments in the settings. I myself have an iMac 2011 i7 3,4 ghz something with 32gb of ram. Most of my instruments are hosted outside of Logic. So... hard to tell. I found the difference to be minimal really. But just copy your logic 10.2.4, zip it and download 10.3. If it doesn't work for you then you fall back to 10.2.4. Better safe than sorry...


I only use Kontakt instruments (Spitfire BML). I can't recall right now what settings I use, but they should be the same after the update right?

I think I'm going to copy the 10.2.4 version to an external hard drive, then update see how it goes and if it doesn't work, just delete 10.3 and add 10.2.4 back from my external hard drive. Will the version changes work smoothly, or will files and settings within the application support folder etc change when updating?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I copied Logic Pro X onto an external SSD and renamed it. I then updated the original LPX to 10.3 and reloaded the last song. All loaded up up exactly correctly. Then I checked to see if 10.2.4 loaded from the copy and that loaded correctly too.
The new version looks good on a 5k retina screen.


----------



## thesteelydane

When copying and pasting notes in the score editor, they don't get pasted at playhead position, but earlier to varying degrees. Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## dgburns

Christof said:


> No, it doesn't really crash, it just hangs with the spinning ball, so I have to force quit.
> Thanks God there is autosave!
> The crashes appear in different situations, when I open a window for example, or when I want to close a project....randomly.



I've been on 10.3 for most of the day with my 10.2.4 scoring template running three pc slaves and a full template. I'm finding the new version way snappier and no issues whatsoever (so far).

I'd trash my pref's if I were you, seeing as this is a major update, even though I haven't yet. I'd also suspect a plugin is the cause of a hang. Some plugins will cause problems just being in the folder and not actually in use by the app. Only way to find out is to remove half the plugins, run the app and if everything is fine, run the other half and check again. When you find a hang, remove half the plugins again until you narrow it down to the one. Usually older plugs are most suspicious. Also try running any plugin that has a standalone version outside of Logic to check and reset prefs.

I'm on 10.11.6 with latest Kontakt and Vepro6.

Now if someone can point me in the direction to be able to darken the arrange background, I'll be all set. The mod to do this from 10.2.4 is broken in 10.3. The rest of the gui works for me.


----------



## DocMidi657

RRBE Sound said:


> I do like the new version. But.. Is it just me or is the new design somewhat un-sharp...?


I am noticing that as well in regards to the Text especially in the drop down menus under functions and views etc.


----------



## babylonwaves

thesteelydane said:


> I don't get it - that's always been possible?


no. there is a new option which color codes the notes in piano roll. the color is identical to the color of the region the notes are sitting in.


----------



## Vik

thesteelydane said:


> When copying and pasting notes in the score editor, they don't get pasted at playhead position, but earlier to varying degrees. Anyone else experiencing this?


There are always some quirks in new versions, and there's usually also a .subrelease coming not so long after more major releases - I hope you'll report that bug here:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html


----------



## Vik

babylonwaves said:


> no. there is a new option which color codes the notes in piano roll. the color is identical to the color of the region the notes are sitting in.


That one's actually not new either.


----------



## thesteelydane

Vik said:


> There are always some quirks in new versions, and there's usually also a .subrelease coming not so long after more major releases - I hope you'll report that bug here:
> http://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html


Already did


----------



## Saxer

I got problems editing values per mouse in the event editor. Especially when working fast. Clicking on a note and changing (i.e.) the length by holding left mouse button and moving up/down the mouse works sometimes and sometimes not (70:30%). Instead of changing the length other notes will be selected (like shift-click).
Can someone confirm that?


----------



## Heinigoldstein

Saxer said:


> I got problems editing values per mouse in the event editor. Especially when working fast. Clicking on a note and changing (i.e.) the length by holding left mouse button and moving up/down the mouse works sometimes and sometimes not (70:30%). Instead of changing the length other notes will be selected (like shift-click).
> Can someone confirm that?



Unfortunately yes, same here ! And I don't understand the reason that the value goes down to 0 now ?


Next thing that bothers me is, that if you change velocity value in the piano roll for multiple selcted notes, it is limited now to the highest/lowest amount of the selected notes. It wasn't in 10.2....and it was a pretty simple way of velocity compression.


----------



## thesteelydane

Ok, here's a pretty serious bug with track alternatives. It seems that if my computer is allowed to go to sleep, all my alternatives are lost - for good. I've just lost 3 hours of work, rendering track alternatives completely useless until this is fixed.

Beware, don't use track alternatives. How a bug like this could get through unnoticed I don't understand. 

Update: Seems other things can have the same effect: https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=129173


----------



## Saxer

Heinigoldstein said:


> Next thing that bothers me is, that if you change velocity value in the piano roll for multiple selcted notes, it is limited now to the highest/lowest amount of the selected notes. It wasn't in 10.2....and it was a pretty simple way of velocity compression.


This was before too. If you want to rectify the curve on the ceiling you must hold the alt key.


----------



## mac

Not really related, but the logicprohelp forums looking better with its new design. How long's it been like that?


----------



## galactic orange

Did I miss where to find the option to set up the Pan knob default to Stereo Pan, or are we supposed to click on the knob every time a channel strip is created? I suppose we can save a default channel strip to load this way, but I plan on using Stereo Pan most of the time so it would be nice if there was an option either in Preferences or Project Settings for this.


----------



## hdsmile

It's really great release working flawless here on Sierra 12.0.1


----------



## Ashermusic

Here is my review, btw.

https://ask.audio/articles/review-logic-pro-x-10-3


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

thesteelydane, I suggest getting in the habit of saving every time you do something you don't want to lose, whether it's in Logic or anything else.

I do sympathize and mean this to be a constructive suggestion - I'm not intentionally being an asshole (quiet down, Jay). Programs crash, you can get power surges if your machine isn't in a UPS, or you can run into things like this.


----------



## samphony

galactic orange said:


> Did I miss where to find the option to set up the Pan knob default to Stereo Pan, or are we supposed to click on the knob every time a channel strip is created? I suppose we can save a default channel strip to load this way, but I plan on using Stereo Pan most of the time so it would be nice if there was an option either in Preferences or Project Settings for this.



Secondary click on the pan knob on single or multiple selected channels!


----------



## Kaufmanmoon

thesteelydane said:


> Ok, here's a pretty serious bug with track alternatives. It seems that if my computer is allowed to go to sleep, all my alternatives are lost - for good. I've just lost 3 hours of work, rendering track alternatives completely useless until this is fixed.
> 
> Beware, don't use track alternatives. How a bug like this could get through unnoticed I don't understand.
> 
> Update: Seems other things can have the same effect: https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=129173


 
I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Shame. Once it's fixed it will be really handy.


----------



## bryla

Ashermusic said:


>


Hi Jay,
Why do you have 48, low-cut and phase on your channel? Can you control your interface from within Logic?


----------



## tav.one

bryla said:


> Hi Jay,
> Why do you have 48, low-cut and phase on your channel? Can you control your interface from within Logic?



I can control my Apogee Duet 2 from within logic.


----------



## Raindog

As a newbie to Logic (former long-term Cubase user) I have 2 questions for the experts:

1. Is Logic stable with Sierra? With Cubase I was hesitant to update 10.11 (my current system) as there have been problems mentioned by other users.

2. With the new track version option can I also make 2 different versions of the channel strip and setting and switch between them using the different track versions? Would be great and maybe I just try it to find out.

Thanks very much
Raindog


----------



## galactic orange

samphony said:


> Secondary click on the pan knob on single or multiple selected channels!



I guess a multiple channel select then secondary click will have to do for now. I was hoping there would be an option so it could be set that way each time a new track is created. Maybe I should just be happy that we have the option now! Thanks.


----------



## anp27

jonathanwright said:


> Very pleased with this update so far, with a lot of useful enhancements.
> 
> Buried amongst all the headline features is the ability to assign key commands to user transform sets, which (for me) is a huge workflow improvement.


Ooh wow I totally overlooked this, time to assign some key commands!


----------



## thesteelydane

Nick Batzdorf said:


> thesteelydane, I suggest getting in the habit of saving every time you do something you don't want to lose, whether it's in Logic or anything else.
> 
> I do sympathize and mean this to be a constructive suggestion - I'm not intentionally being an asshole (quiet down, Jay). Programs crash, you can get power surges if your machine isn't in a UPS, or you can run into things like this.



Yeah I know....I actually do habitually press command-s every 5 minutes or so, but in this case that just meant overwriting the version of the project that did have my alternative midi tracks in it. Since it's invisible, I have no idea at what point it vanished from my project, and going back through the auto backups didn't bring it back.

The work around for now appears to be to keep all your alternatives visible, but that completely defies the purpose of the function - you might as well have different tracks and mute them.


I did test alternatives first, and found no problems, so I assumed everything was fine. It's a pretty catastrophic bug.

Update: Further testing reveals that if you delete any region or even part of a region in a track with alternatives, all the midi in the alternative tracks vanishes. I'm on 10.11.6 - can anyone else, perhaps on a different OS version, replicate this bug?


----------



## robh

mc_deli said:


> I wish people would post system specs


Like me, for example?


----------



## passsacaglia

Heinigoldstein said:


> Unfortunately yes, same here ! And I don't understand the reason that the value goes down to 0 now ?
> 
> 
> Next thing that bothers me is, that if you change velocity value in the piano roll for multiple selcted notes, it is limited now to the highest/lowest amount of the selected notes. It wasn't in 10.2....and it was a pretty simple way of velocity compression.


Ouch!!!


----------



## robh

Heinigoldstein said:


> Next thing that bothers me is, that if you change velocity value in the piano roll for multiple selcted notes, it is limited now to the highest/lowest amount of the selected notes. It wasn't in 10.2....and it was a pretty simple way of velocity compression.


 You are talking about the velocity slider in the piano roll's inspector? You can still do it if you drag the data in the piano roll itself.

Rob


----------



## Heinigoldstein

robh said:


> You are talking about the velocity slider in the piano roll's inspector? You can still do it if you drag the data in the piano roll itself.
> 
> Rob



I always used the right mouse button to change velocity and it worked in 10.2. But as Saxxer said, I might have just to use it together with the Alt-key now, not no a big problem though.

But all editing actions seem sloppy in my update. Especially in the event editor. Using the latter intensively crashes 10.3. even more, than it does anyhow. And the worst thing is, that it looses all connections to VE-Pro after re-start, so I have to re-start the whole template on three machines every time, what an enormous fun. 
This is very disappointing and frustrating. I usually never jump on an update straight away, but I just was re-building my template, so I gave it a try.........I should have known better


----------



## mc_deli

robh said:


> Like me, for example?


...just when talking about crashes for example... It's one of the best things about the moderation in LPH. It's lighter touch her (ahem) but in this DAW sub forum folks would be much better served if they posted their specs.

(I'm on skiing holiday so the only specs I'm posting are my Anon goggles-and rose tinted they are!)


----------



## mc_deli

@Ashermusic 

What is this pray tell my master?

"View your entire project at a glance and navigate with touch in the timeline overview"


----------



## mc_deli

From the marvellous Ask Audio summary:

"However, there are still some features I'm waiting/hoping for which aren't available in Logic X 10.3... 


The ability to reorder channel strips in the mixer differently from the Track List and then lock it."
Thank you for listing this @Ashermusic


----------



## Mr. Ha

I updated earlier today and I have to say I was really pleasantly surprised! The lead-times are a bit faster and opening windows, editing midi etc seems a bit smoother! I also like the alternatives feature! Great update!


----------



## Greg

If your session starts at anywhere besides 1 1 1 1, your grid snapping will be fucked up. Just FYI


----------



## fastlanephil

Double clicked on the Pan Knob in the mixer and track header. Has this ability to type in the midi value always been available or is this new?


----------



## WindcryMusic

Simon Ravn said:


> But WHY OH WHY did they have to change the font and make it smaller and thinner, to the point where it is almost close to unreadable (and jagged)?! This is on a 4K monitor. It was perfect before, now it's an eyesore and seemingly no way to turn in back to what it was.



My initial reaction was similar ... or maybe worse, because I have a non-retina display, and the fonts were a mess, particularly those on the popup context menus for screen items and to a lesser extent on the channel strip. That is, until I poked around in the preferences and found there are display options for larger fonts in both of those cases, and those changes made 10.3's graphics quality okay for me after all. Thank goodness, because if those display options hadn't been there, I was going to find Logic very difficult to keep using going forward.


----------



## Simon Ravn

WindcryMusic said:


> My initial reaction was similar ... or maybe worse, because I have a non-retina display, and the fonts were a mess, particularly those on the popup context menus for screen items and to a lesser extent on the channel strip. That is, until I poked around in the preferences and found there are display options for larger fonts in both of those cases, and those changes made 10.3's graphics quality okay for me after all. Thank goodness, because if those display options hadn't been there, I was going to find Logic very difficult to keep using going forward.



Really? Where did you find any font options? I only found the old options to get a "big font" in the inspectors and such.


----------



## Simon Ravn

mc_deli said:


> From the marvellous Ask Audio summary:
> 
> "However, there are still some features I'm waiting/hoping for which aren't available in Logic X 10.3...
> 
> 
> The ability to reorder channel strips in the mixer differently from the Track List and then lock it."
> Thank you for listing this @Ashermusic



Oh yes - I also wrote Apple about this. Incredible that this still isn't there. Actually, even if I create tracks for all aux and busses and move them in the arrange, they will still not move in the mixer. So my mixer is a big mess which I have tried to colorcode to make it just a little bit more organized.


----------



## fritzmartinbass

Greg said:


> If your session starts at anywhere besides 1 1 1 1, your grid snapping will be fucked up. Just FYI


I always begin at measure 2 and I have not had this problem. Sounds weird. BTW, I absolutely love 10.3 on my 27" 4ghz iMac. Soooo much better on my eyes.


----------



## Ashermusic

Simon Ravn said:


> Oh yes - I also wrote Apple about this. Incredible that this still isn't there. Actually, even if I create tracks for all aux and busses and move them in the arrange, they will still not move in the mixer. So my mixer is a big mess which I have tried to colorcode to make it just a little bit more organized.



I had breakfast with the Logic developers at NAMM yesterday and again reiterated this request, along with viewing multiple MIDI ccs in the piano roll editor. They are such great guys, so dedicated, so smart, and believe me, if they can, they will.


----------



## WindcryMusic

Simon Ravn said:


> Really? Where did you find any font options? I only found the old options to get a "big font" in the inspectors and such.



Logic Preferences / Display, I think. I don't have the laptop running right now to check (I'm in the studio this morning), but I'll take another look at it later today if I can and post a correction if it was elsewhere. It wasn't too hard to find. It might have been the "big font" options that I'd never used before, but after enabling them, the font size seemed similar in size and clarity to what I had previous to 10.3, so perhaps it isn't quite as "big" of an option anymore?


----------



## dgburns

fritzmartinbass said:


> I always begin at measure 2 and I have not had this problem. Sounds weird. BTW, I absolutely love 10.3 on my 27" 4ghz iMac. Soooo much better on my eyes.



I start at bar 9 fwiw, too many times I've had to add something at the beginning.


----------



## dgburns

Ashermusic said:


> I had breakfast with the Logic developers at NAMM yesterday and again reiterated this request, along with viewing multiple MIDI ccs in the piano roll editor. They are such great guys, so dedicated, so smart, and believe me, if they can, they will.



Wish they weren't so secretive. Nice to see YOU meet them, but after all we should all know their names. Especially those of us that make a living with the app. (for me that's twenty years going and I don't know a single soul, other then some educated guesses). That's alot of trust to place in an app I have come to rely on in ways that worry me when there's no two way communication.(what is the direction they are planning in the longer term)

But this new version has gone a long way to relieving some apprehension. I'm even starting to think about new Mac hardware again. Day two of all day use in scoring a show and not one crash or hickup. No issues with plugs or pref's.


----------



## pdub

10.3 is working great here. I've started mixing a new project as well as a new set of TV cues all without a hitch. 64 bit summing sounds fab!

Regarding my previous post about the fonts and washed out appearance that seems to be on non retina screens. It looks great on my retina laptop. Sadly I spend most of my time on my Mac Pro with a 4K screen which looked great with 10.2.4 but not so much with 10.3 The font clarity in the mixer names is probably my biggest gripe.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Never used Summing on Logic. don't actually know what it is. Is it summing stacks?


----------



## Ashermusic

dgburns said:


> Wish they weren't so secretive. Nice to see YOU meet them, but after all we should all know their names. Especially those of us that make a living with the app. (for me that's twenty years going and I don't know a single soul, other then some educated guesses). That's alot of trust to place in an app I have come to rely on in ways that worry me when there's no two way communication.(what is the direction they are planning in the longer term)
> 
> But this new version has gone a long way to relieving some apprehension. I'm even starting to think about new Mac hardware again. Day two of all day use in scoring a show and not one crash or hickup. No issues with plugs or pref's.



Their names are not secret. The main guys have been the same for years. Dr. Gerhard Lengeling, Chris Adam, Clemens Hamburg. Obviously, they have a number of others as well.


----------



## resound

It's strange that people are complaining about the text size. I actually find the font much easier to read!


----------



## DocMidi657

resound said:


> It's strange that people are complaining about the text size. I actually find the font much easier to read!


Are you on a Retina Display? I am thinking you may not notice the font issue if you are. I notice it looks great on my MacBook Pro Retina but not on my other displays.


----------



## resound

DocMidi657 said:


> Are you on a Retina Display? I am thinking you may not notice the font issue if you are. I notice it looks great on my MacBook Pro Retina but not on my other displays.


I have one standard 24" display (not retina) and another 28" 4k display and it looks fine on both, although obviously a bit smaller on the 4k. I think it is easier to read for me because it is using a different font that is a little more spaced out and stretched vertically than the previous font.


----------



## pdub

Baron Greuner said:


> Never used Summing on Logic. don't actually know what it is. Is it summing stacks?


It's the internal summing engine not the summing stacks. It was previously 32 bit so now you have the option to work at a higher level of precision. I'm used to it in Studio One so it's nice to see it in Logic although I haven't done any A/B comparison with the older mode. You can access it in the Audio Preferences.


----------



## Soundhound

It would be great if Apple could somehow separate the 'pro' section of its hardware and software from the consumer section. It's in their marketing dna inherited from Jobs, as a master showman, to never reveal what's coming next. Fine for the billions of people buying iPhones and macbook airs and iPads etc... But for people who rely on the products for their livelihood it's nothing but a detriment, to the point that some people have left the apple world.

I've been onboard since the 80s and love their stuff, the last thing I want to do is work on in a windows environment, the mac approach is too deep in my bones by now. I've always used it for work, for writing and for composing/scoring etc. Now that almost 1/2 my income is coming from composing and scoring, the mystery about what's coming next is just a royal pain in the ass.





dgburns said:


> Wish they weren't so secretive. Nice to see YOU meet them, but after all we should all know their names. Especially those of us that make a living with the app. (for me that's twenty years going and I don't know a single soul, other then some educated guesses). That's alot of trust to place in an app I have come to rely on in ways that worry me when there's no two way communication.(what is the direction they are planning in the longer term)
> 
> But this new version has gone a long way to relieving some apprehension. I'm even starting to think about new Mac hardware again. Day two of all day use in scoring a show and not one crash or hickup. No issues with plugs or pref's.


----------



## Ashermusic

Soubdhound, I don't disagree on the hardware side, but nothing that has been done to Logic to make it easier for those folks has impeded the progress they made with it for pro users and even the latest OS, Sierra, is the best one since Snow Leopard in my opinion.


----------



## Nmargiotta

dgburns said:


> Wish they weren't so secretive. Nice to see YOU meet them, but after all we should all know their names. Especially those of us that make a living with the app. (for me that's twenty years going and I don't know a single soul, other then some educated guesses). That's alot of trust to place in an app I have come to rely on in ways that worry me when there's no two way communication.(what is the direction they are planning in the longer term)



I had the chance to chat with a few of the developers at NAMM yesterday as well. Super great guys. Much of what I was expressing they were absolutely interested in and shared the same sentiment. As far as knowing them personally it is tough, I wasn't able to get a contact card but he took down my email (hopefully i will hear from him regarding a bug in the environment with eucon and midi) I asked how we can leave feedback that reaches them and isn't just left unread or filter through the apple.com/feedback. Basically it was explained that when you use crash reports that is the quickest most direct way of "communicating" to the dev team and utilizing the comments/details section as that does reach the development team (although he mentioned it is screened and then compiled into a brief). The apple.com/feedback is absolutely read but based off of numbers. The frequency that a specific feature request is made. (I'm contemplating writing a Automator script to send daily feedback requests) From what I gathered in coversation much of that goes through Pro Apps Marketing.

I wish they had a pro service membership for guys like us making a living with their product where we could be in contact and give direct useful feedback. Or even an Apple "Pro" event in LA once a year where the Logic/FCP devs are there for a feedback/we want to hear your voice type thing. I'm all for open communication with them so I can continue to support Logic!


----------



## Ashermusic

Without violating my NDA all I can say is that there is a way some of us Pro users regularly communicate directly with them.


----------



## Soundhound

Point well taken Jay. They do seem to be committed to Logic and the regular updates and improvements are much appreciated. I wish they could take the same approach with the machines we depend on to run it. Just transparency would help so much. I know it's anathema to Apple as a company (I've worked with them some over the years) but it really has no place or value in the pro market.

Edit: Per your last post. I've seen some of those NDAs over the years. Makes the security around the nuclear codes look like a high school gym lock. 




Ashermusic said:


> Soubdhound, I don't disagree on the hardware side, but nothing that has been done to Logic to make it easier for those folks has impeded the progress they made with it for pro users and even the latest OS, Sierra, is the best one since Snow Leopard in my opinion.


----------



## Ashermusic

Yes, but the Logic developers have nothing to do with the hardware development.


----------



## Nmargiotta

Ashermusic said:


> Without violating my NDA all I can say is that there is a way some of us Pro users regularly communicate directly with them.


I totally understand that. I guess I need to connect with the right member of their team or send my questions/feedback straight to you Jay


----------



## Soundhound

Right, I'm not pointing fingers. I'm just saying it would be something that the pro community would love them for. It would go a long way to rebuilding some of the discontent they've encounted the last few years. Apple users are a very loyal bunch.




Ashermusic said:


> Yes, but the Logic developers have nothing to do with the hardware development.


----------



## Nmargiotta

And I mean that jokingly Jay


----------



## DocMidi657

resound said:


> I have one standard 24" display (not retina) and another 28" 4k display and it looks fine on both, although obviously a bit smaller on the 4k. I think it is easier to read for me because it is using a different font that is a little more spaced out and stretched vertically than the previous font.


Thanks Resound!


----------



## byzantium

I have a 2011 27" non-retina iMac and LPX 10.3 looks well / reads fine to me. 
(and I do not like hard-to-read/small font screens like Kontakt, ProTools).


----------



## dgburns

Ashermusic said:


> Without violating my NDA all I can say is that there is a way some of us Pro users regularly communicate directly with them.



Yeah, see- that's what I mean. Who decides who's in and who's out?

While not everyone who is "pro" wants the interaction, some do. What bugs me most is that we all work a bit differently, and I can see that decisions are being made about process that sometimes uproot my carefully plotted out work process. Much of that process was put in place because of things that past versions of Logic forced a work-a-round for.

- Like no more then one 5.1 output.
-Like some bugs that you just got used to so you avoided doing very specific things.(graphically changing tempo in L9 causing hangs for example)
-Like setting up templates in a certain order based on the processing order (top to bottom)
-Like knowing the limits of processing in the environment based on object layout.
-Like knowing how to use meta events for automating multiple parameters of stock effects with faders. (eq's for example)
- Like being able to remotely select tracks by using mouse co-ords/screensets and lemur messages.

I could go on. sigh.

-edit-

I must restate however that this new version actually has me excited again about using Logic. Just to temper my rant.


----------



## Ashermusic

dgburns said:


> Yeah, see- that's what I mean. Who decides who's in and who's out?
> 
> 
> -edit-



Well in my case, bear in mind that I first met them at the Atari show in Glendale with Notator in 1989. And that I was the first composer in LA to use it both for MIDI and printing out parts for the orchestra with "Zorro." And that I was beta tester for Emagic for many years. And I never stopped being in contact with them all these years.

Most of those who have access to them either have known them personally as Logic users for many years, as I have, are or were beta testers, or are high level pros.


----------



## desert

Updated it last night and I must say I actually like the new UI... 

Still, everytime I close it down it comes up with application not responding and I have to force quit


----------



## Creston

Along with being able to move tracks in the mix window (and not needing the environment) I'd love to be able to make the whole track info part a colour in the arrange and mixer like in Pro Tools.


----------



## 5Lives

No disable track still?


----------



## lpuser

dgburns said:


> Yeah, see- that's what I mean. Who decides who's in and who's out?



Thing is: Not matter who is in or out, it is Apple who (finally) decides about features and direction.


----------



## synthpunk

Maybe you need to move on to something else then ?

Some of you need to read a how to make friends and influence people book. 



lpuser said:


> Thing is: Not matter who is in or out, it is Apple who (finally) decides about features and direction.


----------



## lpuser

synthpunk said:


> Maybe you need to move on to something else then



Err, I don´t quite understand your comment aimed at my posting. Maybe because I am not a native English speaker, but ... did I say something about me wanna move on? The point was just to say that no matter if one is a "pro" or not, Apple has the final word on their releases. So there is no point in discussing "who decides who is in or not"


----------



## playz123

lpuser said:


> Err, I don´t quite understand your comment aimed at my posting. Maybe because I am not a native English speaker, but ... did I say something about me wanna move on? The point was just to say that no matter if one is a "pro" or not, Apple has the final word on their releases. So there is no point in discussing "who decides who is in or not"


No problem here with your ability to communicate, lpuser. I certainly didn't see anything even mildly offensive or argumentative in your post! IMHO, a valid comment, whether one agrees or not. Cheers!


----------



## synthpunk

I think it was me actually who misunderstood your post, apologies.



lpuser said:


> Err, I don´t quite understand your comment aimed at my posting. Maybe because I am not a native English speaker, but ... did I say something about me wanna move on? The point was just to say that no matter if one is a "pro" or not, Apple has the final word on their releases. So there is no point in discussing "who decides who is in or not"


----------



## dgburns

5Lives said:


> No disable track still?



To be fair to Apple, there is the ability to turn the track "on/off" in the arrange page. That's almost the same thing.


----------



## EgM

Found a bug in velocities... I have a single piano note here at velocity value of 8 and it's being played at 127...

Edit: The purple one on the left.

Edit2: Figured out that anything under velocity 10 gets hit with 127 velocity... Tried with Sonivox 88 and Kontakt, same results.

Edit3: ...(sigh) A new project with anything under 10 velocity works perfectly now :/

Edit4: ok, recorded a video on youtube to illustrate the bug. People using 10.3 rendering songs made with 10.2.4 should be very careful... New songs created with 10.3 don't have this bug and I have no clue why it thinks a note under vel10 should be 127 but either way, check the youtube video below to see:


----------



## 5Lives

dgburns said:


> To be fair to Apple, there is the ability to turn the track "on/off" in the arrange page. That's almost the same thing.



Only disables CPU usage, doesn't unload from RAM - so not very useful for sample-heavy templates.


----------



## Soundhound

Just updated to 10.3 and the type to me (it's late, hoping it'll be better in the morning) looks tiny and hard to read. Wondering if you'd located that control for bigger fonts, aside from the inspector and context menus controls. Hoping this can be done for mixer, tracks etc...



WindcryMusic said:


> Logic Preferences / Display, I think. I don't have the laptop running right now to check (I'm in the studio this morning), but I'll take another look at it later today if I can and post a correction if it was elsewhere. It wasn't too hard to find. It might have been the "big font" options that I'd never used before, but after enabling them, the font size seemed similar in size and clarity to what I had previous to 10.3, so perhaps it isn't quite as "big" of an option anymore?


----------



## mc_deli

Having read the threads here, on GS and on LPH there seem to be a few niggles with opening old projects from 10.2.4 in 10.3 (like the velocity "feature" a few posts up). 
The other things stopping me from updating are the basic editing behaviours of the scissors and mutes which need to be patched, and maybe the big one is that projects without a 1.1.1.1 start time seem SNAFU.
None of these are crazy bad and I would like to experience the new GUI and "busy" project optimisation... but maybe when 10.3.1 comes.

Also, I read Amplitube is not working under 10.3. I have a legit Amplitube 3 with e.g. SVX that I use a lot - does anyone have this working in 10.3?


----------



## Vik

5Lives said:


> Only disables CPU usage, doesn't unload from RAM - so not very useful for sample-heavy templates.


And that's the crucial point. Massively important.


----------



## vewilya

Little snag I hit today: Don't put UAD plugins in the Realtime Audio Processing window. Hard crashing Logic...
Maybe it's only on my system that I'm seeing this...


----------



## snedz2

I have had 3 full program crashes this morning with 10.3, in all three cases when drawing in midi CC data. 

The first time using a midi fader, the last 2 drawing it in.

No spinning beach ball just program disappears!


----------



## vewilya

snedz2 said:


> I have had 3 full program crashes this morning with 10.3, in all three cases when drawing in midi CC data.
> 
> The first time using a midi fader, the last 2 drawing it in.
> 
> No spinning beach ball just program disappears!


More spinning beach balls this morning. There's too much of this going on in 10.3 I think. Tempo editing. Midi editing...


----------



## Luke W

Raindog said:


> Sorry for asking, but I just switched from Cubase to Logic Pro and I have 2 questions to ask to the Logic experts here in the forum.



You'll probably have better luck starting a new thread to ask your questions. This thread is a discussion of 10.3.


----------



## Raindog

Good idea


----------



## WindcryMusic

Soundhound said:


> Just updated to 10.3 and the type to me (it's late, hoping it'll be better in the morning) looks tiny and hard to read. Wondering if you'd located that control for bigger fonts, aside from the inspector and context menus controls. Hoping this can be done for mixer, tracks etc...



The "Large Local Window Menus" and "Large Inspectors" options under Logic Pro X / Preferences / Display / General are the only things that I had found. Upon looking at them again this morning, I decided to go back once more to the smaller fonts to see just how bad they were ... and surprisingly they looked noticeably better than I remember them looking right after I had installed ... much more anti-aliased and less jagged. I wonder if there is a bug where those fonts default to the wrong setting on a non-retina display, but then toggling and untoggling those font options straightens it out? I definitely remember the smaller fonts being far more jagged and illegible the first time I had the new version running. The smaller fonts still aren't "great", a downgrade from the last version, but are not as unusable as what I had originally seen.

Also, even during the first boot I didn't have as much of a problem with the mixer and track text as I did with the fonts in those popups and inspectors.


----------



## Soundhound

Thanks! I'll have a look at the smaller contextual menus.
Gotta say I agree with those not loving the new look. 10.2.4 and before were more distinct and easier to read for me. I do like having some control over gradients of the background(s) for sure, and track alternatives are already coming in handy. But the new look, meh... I'm hoping it'll grow on me after working with it for a while ...




WindcryMusic said:


> The "Large Local Window Menus" and "Large Inspectors" options under Logic Pro X / Preferences / Display / General are the only things that I had found. Upon looking at them again this morning, I decided to go back once more to the smaller fonts to see just how bad they were ... and surprisingly they looked noticeably better than I remember them looking right after I had installed ... much more anti-aliased and less jagged. I wonder if there is a bug where those fonts default to the wrong setting on a non-retina display, but then toggling and untoggling those font options straightens it out? I definitely remember the smaller fonts being far more jagged and illegible the first time I had the new version running. The smaller fonts still aren't "great", a downgrade from the last version, but are not as unusable as what I had originally seen.
> 
> Also, even during the first boot I didn't have as much of a problem with the mixer and track text as I did with the fonts in those popups and inspectors.


----------



## andreªs

Ashermusic said:


> Their names are not secret. The main guys have been the same for years. Dr. Gerhard Lengeling, Chris Adam, Clemens Hamburg. Obviously, they have a number of others as well.



Clemens Homburg - from Hamburg.


----------



## Greg

EgM said:


> Found a bug in velocities... I have a single piano note here at velocity value of 8 and it's being played at 127...



Same problem here... It only seems to happen with Sonicourture Hammersmith


----------



## whinecellar

Greg said:


> If your session starts at anywhere besides 1 1 1 1, your grid snapping will be fucked up. Just FYI



Can you elaborate? Do you mean if there's no region starting at bar 1/1/1/1? My template starts at bar 11 for years - a holdover from the days of SysEx dumps to set up external gear, etc. - and I still use that from time to time...


----------



## Greg

whinecellar said:


> Can you elaborate?



If you start it at anything less than bar 1 copy pasting regions nudges them forward automatically whatever the negative bar value is. Just threw me for a loop as it never did that before.


----------



## resound

Greg said:


> If you start it at anything less than bar 1 copy pasting regions nudges them forward automatically whatever the negative bar value is. Just threw me for a loop as it never did that before.


I remember that bug happening in a previous version. They fixed it at some point but somehow it must have snuck back in.


----------



## whinecellar

In other news, +1 to the complaints about the new font. I've tried it in low & high res modes, on different displays - it's awful everywhere. It's not fuzzy - it's just not nearly as nice and refined as in previous versions. Overall things have taken an aesthetic step backward, IMO - at first glance it looks much more like a cheap PC app. Just my $.02 of course...


----------



## Ashermusic

whinecellar said:


> In other news, +1 to the complaints about the new font. I've tried it in low & high res modes, on different displays - it's awful everywhere. It's not fuzzy - it's just not nearly as nice and refined as in previous versions. Overall things have taken an aesthetic step backward, IMO - at first glance it looks much more like a cheap PC app. Just my $.02 of course...




Wow, on both my iMac non-retina and my Ultra HD 4k monitor, I think it looks much better. Go figure.


----------



## samphony

Creston said:


> Along with being able to move tracks in the mix window (and not needing the environment) I'd love to be able to make the whole track info part a colour in the arrange and mixer like in Pro Tools.




Like this?

https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=124494&hilit=Colorize


----------



## synthpunk

Is Track Alternatives basically another word for alternative takes or is there more there to it?


----------



## Living Fossil

synthpunk said:


> Is Track Alternatives basically another word for alternative takes or is there more there to it?



I think the option to use different track based automation values makes the difference.
(in logic 10.2.4 it is possible to use different tracks assigned to the same object [e.g. Audio 1] with different region based automation data. Switching is possible by unmuting/muting regions).


----------



## whinecellar

Ashermusic said:


> Wow, on both my iMac non-retina and my Ultra HD 4k monitor, I think it looks much better. Go figure.



People seem to be pretty split on this. Makes me wonder if there's some GPU-dependent issues at play for some of us, because I can't imagine anyone looking at 10.2.4 and 10.3 side by side and thinking the latter is an improvement. But like I said, just my $.02, and likely not worth that much 

I will say this though, the GUI is significantly snappier, which is welcome. I've never been able to run LPX in high res mode without really slowing things down, and now it doesn't seem to care at all, even at full 4k resolution on my 40" display. So that's a welcome improvement!


----------



## thesteelydane

synthpunk said:


> Is Track Alternatives basically another word for alternative takes or is there more there to it?


No it's much better, but I wouldn't use it until they fix the pretty serious bug it has: https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=129173


----------



## clisma

samphony said:


> Like this?
> 
> https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=124494&hilit=Colorize


This would be brilliant for organization, especially in the mixer. As far as font in 10.3 is concerned, I do actually think it's an improvement over 10.2.4. The slender font makes things easier for me. Dual monitors 1920 x 1080.


----------



## Soundhound

For me it's not just the fonts, which seem smaller and hard to read for me, it's the design. Losing some of the depth, the 3D quality generally created by shading and designed 'bezels' etc. for me created an easy sense of place and placement. I miss that. Having spent most of my adult life in ad agencies, I know that graphic design like anything else is subject to fashion and fad, and this flat Ableton-ish kind of thing must be the new black. 

But as I said i'm hoping it'll grow on me.

One thing I'm wondering about is whether the new design and fonts do look better on a retina and or 4k screen. I'm on a non retina iMac 27" and the fonts in 10.3 are definitely less crisp than 10.2.4. Will be moving to a 4k some time this year so that's of interest...


----------



## Soundhound

Some weird behavior with the Mute tool in the piano roll. When I click on a note or group of notes with the Mute Tool, (chosen either as the secondary click or by choosing it with typing TM), the note you click on doesn't mute until after you click away from the note, rather than when you first click on it. 

Conversely when muting a note you now double click on it with the mute tool rather than single click.

Anyone else seeing this? 

Maybe this is some kind of alternative behavior that's can be invoked in some way I wasn't aware of?


----------



## mc_deli

Soundhound said:


> Some weird behavior with the Mute tool in the piano roll. When I click on a note or group of notes with the Mute Tool, (chosen either as the secondary click or by choosing it with typing TM), the note you click on doesn't mute until after you click away from the note, rather than when you first click on it.
> 
> Conversely when muting a note you now double click on it with the mute tool rather than single click.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this?
> 
> Maybe this is some kind of alternative behavior that's can be invoked in some way I wasn't aware of?


This is also reported on the LPH main thread... you know what to do.... fill in the Apple form


----------



## Soundhound

thanks i'll do that. anyone have that link handy? i've never done it...

ps is it okay to go back to 10.2.4, just trash 10.3, uncompress 10.2.4 and put it back in the applications folder?

and anyone know if a project saved in 10.3 will open in 10.2.4? probably not, right?


----------



## babylonwaves

Soundhound said:


> and anyone know if a project saved in 10.3 will open in 10.2.4? probably not, right?


it will open with a warning. but it works.


----------



## Soundhound

thanks!


----------



## dgburns

whinecellar said:


> In other news, +1 to the complaints about the new font. I've tried it in low & high res modes, on different displays - it's awful everywhere. It's not fuzzy - it's just not nearly as nice and refined as in previous versions. Overall things have taken an aesthetic step backward, IMO - at first glance it looks much more like a cheap PC app. Just my $.02 of course...



Font looks sharp over here (I'm wondering if there is a system font pref at play here). Actually really liking the new gui. I've modded a few gui things (darkened arrangement background,etc etc) but seeing as I pretty much ran with the stock look, I'd say I'm liking the flattened look, much less distracting.
One of the biggest improvements for me is audio recording is snappier, very thankful for that.

I'm feeling some of the dna from v7 is coming through in the look and I'm liking it. After a few days of moderate scoring, no crashes, no issues, not so many "wait for me spinning balls".


----------



## Creston

samphony said:


> Like this?
> 
> https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=124494&hilit=Colorize


 Yes! Just like this! I thought I'd missed an update then and disappointed now.


----------



## Simon Ravn

dgburns said:


> Font looks sharp over here (I'm wondering if there is a system font pref at play here). Actually really liking the new gui. I've modded a few gui things (darkened arrangement background,etc etc) but seeing as I pretty much ran with the stock look, I'd say I'm liking the flattened look, much less distracting.
> One of the biggest improvements for me is audio recording is snappier, very thankful for that.
> 
> I'm feeling some of the dna from v7 is coming through in the look and I'm liking it. After a few days of moderate scoring, no crashes, no issues, not so many "wait for me spinning balls".



There are no system font settings in OS X except "use LCD smoothing where available". Which changes nothing.

I took two screen shots, zoomed in on them and then grabbed that to show the big difference - are you not seeing this?






10.3 on the left, 10.2 on the right. 10.3 seems "too sharp"/not enough antialiasing and whiter too.


----------



## gsilbers

they've definitely going for that aesthetic like ableton live and Cubase. flatter, dynamic, simpler, less shadows , modern looking style.
def seems like a step down. could of gone ore realistic looking but oh well. its turning Iosification of apple apps. just like the US elections.. we going dumber


----------



## Soundhound

gsilbers said:


> they've definitely going for that aesthetic like ableton live and Cubase. flatter, dynamic, simpler, less shadows , modern looking style.
> def seems like a step down. could of gone ore realistic looking but oh well. its turning Iosification of apple apps. just like the US elections.. we going dumber


----------



## samphony

Creston said:


> Yes! Just like this! I thought I'd missed an update then and disappointed now.


Then just forward your opinion including my link to the developers via apple.com/feedback


----------



## dgburns

Simon Ravn said:


> There are no system font settings in OS X except "use LCD smoothing where available". Which changes nothing.
> 
> I took two screen shots, zoomed in on them and then grabbed that to show the big difference - are you not seeing this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10.3 on the left, 10.2 on the right. 10.3 seems "too sharp"/not enough antialiasing and whiter too.



Oh, I also modded my track fonts to 11 from 13, so that might be part of why I'm good with it.

-edit-

I remember there being a minimum font size setting for font smoothing-they took it out a few os's back but check this out-

http://osxdaily.com/2012/06/09/mac-screen-blurry-optimize-troubleshoot-font-smoothing-os-x/

It "MAY" be that Logic has it's own setting for fonts inside the MAResources.plist, but it could also be accessing system wide settings. I'm not sure.


----------



## whinecellar

dgburns said:


> Oh, I also modded my track fonts to 11 from 13



I'd be interested in how to accomplish this if you have a link by chance?


----------



## whinecellar

Anybody seeing an issue with trying to drag & drop symbols in the score editor? I'm having all sorts of trouble as of 10.3. with crescendo/decrescendo placement. Much of the time it wants to drop them far below or above the current staff...


----------



## thesteelydane

whinecellar said:


> Anybody seeing an issue with trying to drag & drop symbols in the score editor? I'm having all sorts of trouble as of 10.3. with crescendo/decrescendo placement. Much of the time it wants to drop them far below or above the current staff...


It's the same with copy/paste in the score editor. When I copy and then paste some notes at play head position, they get pasted a half bar early. Are you experiencing this as well, or am I the only one?


----------



## Ashermusic

whinecellar said:


> Anybody seeing an issue with trying to drag & drop symbols in the score editor? I'm having all sorts of trouble as of 10.3. with crescendo/decrescendo placement. Much of the time it wants to drop them far below or above the current staff...




I have been having some issues with that for quite a while now in LP X.


----------



## Soundhound

I sent a bug report to Apple. I'm going to see how it goes with 10.3 for the moment. But for future reference, to go back to 10.2.4 do I just unpack the 10.2.4 Logic App I saved and replace it in the Applications folder, then restart? Anything else to be done when reverting to an earlier version of Logic? thanks!


----------



## dgburns

whinecellar said:


> I'd be interested in how to accomplish this if you have a link by chance?



I've sent you a pm.


----------



## Soundhound

It looks to me like a certain amount of this, not all but some, is caused by the lighter fields that the text now sits in. Allowing for control over the light/dark in those areas would be a help. It wouldn't make the gui as easy to see as 10.2.4 but it would help in mitigating text legibility to some degree anyway.




Simon Ravn said:


> There are no system font settings in OS X except "use LCD smoothing where available". Which changes nothing.
> 
> I took two screen shots, zoomed in on them and then grabbed that to show the big difference - are you not seeing this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10.3 on the left, 10.2 on the right. 10.3 seems "too sharp"/not enough antialiasing and whiter too.


----------



## Kent

I have a 5K display on my 27" late-2015 iMac (with a 4 GB GPU) and the text has never looked better or crisper. Take that as you will.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I had honestly thought that we might get AUv3 in this update. I cannot believe it is still not here. I noticed over on VSL that they have no updates on it either. I have been toying with going over to Cubase for a while now because of it, but I would really not like to have to move. However, using a PC slave for EW Composer Cloud Plus and having my Mac Pro for Kontakt, it really makes it extremely hard to make projects without multi-ports :/

Does anyone here have any advice for this, or workarounds they have used in this case (VE PRO 6 + Logic Pro X 10.3)
Mac Pro 2012, 64GB, 10.12.3, VE PRO 6 (latest build), Kontakt 5.6.5, Omnisphere, Waves etc (Master)
i7 4770K, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro, EW CCP, VE PRO 6 (latest build), PLAY 5.0.1 (Slave)


----------



## Ashermusic

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I had honestly thought that we might get AUv3 in this update. I cannot believe it is still not here. I noticed over on VSL that they have no updates on it either. I have been toying with going over to Cubase for a while now because of it, but I would really not like to have to move. However, using a PC slave for EW Composer Cloud Plus and having my Mac Pro for Kontakt, it really makes it extremely hard to make projects without multi-ports :/
> 
> Does anyone here have any advice for this, or workarounds they have used in this case (VE PRO 6 + Logic Pro X 10.3)
> Mac Pro 2012, 64GB, 10.12.3, VE PRO 6 (latest build), Kontakt 5.6.5, Omnisphere, Waves etc (Master)
> i7 4770K, 32GB, Windows 10 Pro, EW CCP, VE PRO 6 (latest build), PLAY 5.0.1 (Slave)



Peter Schwartz's Articulation IDz or Ski Switcher make it a non-issue for me.


----------



## stonzthro

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> However, using a PC slave for EW Composer Cloud Plus and having my Mac Pro for Kontakt, it really makes it extremely hard to make projects without multi-ports :/



I have built many large and stable templates in Logic. I have read others say they have problems, but what specifically are you running in to?


----------



## Simon Ravn

kmaster said:


> I have a 5K display on my 27" late-2015 iMac (with a 4 GB GPU) and the text has never looked better or crisper. Take that as you will.



How may GB your GPU has makes no difference here.

But I guess this is subjective whether this is "crisper" or not. I wouldn't personally call this crisp. I would call it jagged and "un-smooth".
Too little antialiasing, probably because the font is thinner so makes it hard for the font engine to do anything but a little smearing.


----------



## dgburns

Simon Ravn said:


> How may GB your GPU has makes no difference here.
> 
> But I guess this is subjective whether this is "crisper" or not. I wouldn't personally call this crisp. I would call it jagged and "un-smooth".
> Too little antialiasing, probably because the font is thinner so makes it hard for the font engine to do anything but a little smearing.



I was poking around in Logic's innards yesterday, and it would seem they are in fact using system fonts for the tracklist, possibly other areas as well, so if font smoothing is only on by default for fonts of 8 and smaller, that would explain the aliasing. The tracklist fonts are size 13 by default in Logic. So.....if you want to try and change the system wide font smoothing as described in my previous post, that MAY help.


----------



## Soundhound

Thanks dg. I tried this and it didn't seem to have an effect. I restarted Logic, but maybe it needs an overall mac restart as well? Will try that when I can...


----------



## Simon Ravn

dgburns said:


> I was poking around in Logic's innards yesterday, and it would seem they are in fact using system fonts for the tracklist, possibly other areas as well, so if font smoothing is only on by default for fonts of 8 and smaller, that would explain the aliasing. The tracklist fonts are size 13 by default in Logic. So.....if you want to try and change the system wide font smoothing as described in my previous post, that MAY help.



Ah ok - will give it a try. Thanks.


----------



## Kent

Simon Ravn said:


> How may GB your GPU has makes no difference here.
> 
> But I guess this is subjective whether this is "crisper" or not. I wouldn't personally call this crisp. I would call it jagged and "un-smooth".
> Too little antialiasing, probably because the font is thinner so makes it hard for the font engine to do anything but a little smearing.


Perhaps the GPU doesn't matter, but I can't deny that it's both crisp and smooth:

Imgur comparison


----------



## Simon Ravn

kmaster said:


> Perhaps the GPU doesn't matter, but I can't deny that it's both crisp and smooth:
> 
> Imgur comparison



Yours looks awesome! I wonder what is causing this, since it was not an issue before 10.3 - I hope it will be fixed ASAP.


----------



## Simon Ravn

dgburns said:


> I was poking around in Logic's innards yesterday, and it would seem they are in fact using system fonts for the tracklist, possibly other areas as well, so if font smoothing is only on by default for fonts of 8 and smaller, that would explain the aliasing. The tracklist fonts are size 13 by default in Logic. So.....if you want to try and change the system wide font smoothing as described in my previous post, that MAY help.



The article you are linking to is from 2012 = Snow Leopard-ish time?

The setting from the terminal doesn't work anymore (I am on Yosemite), it just gives me back:

"The domain/default pair of (kCFPreferencesAnyApplication, AppleFontSmoothing) does not exist".

So seems it was removed in a later OS.

EDIT: Seems the command was changed to this: defaults -currentHost write -globalDomain AppleFontSmoothing -int 2

(it says "write" - makes more sense, in the link you sent it said "read" - wonder if that really worked...?!).

EDIT2: Didn't help for Logic though. Same thing.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Ashermusic said:


> Peter Schwartz's Articulation IDz or Ski Switcher make it a non-issue for me.



Hi Asher, I do have ArtzID, but I have not really had the time to get to using it. Spent some time trying to get familiar with Cubase again, but then I found it has a terrible performance setup for macOS. So back to Logic Pro X. 

I did not really get around using it with VE PRO 6 either, so how do you have it setup?

Shots would be appreciated if you could as well.

I have even made a huge setup using the environment, but I find the issue there is the delay and lag with adding new tracks, once you have the Environment full of components.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

stonzthro said:


> I have built many large and stable templates in Logic. I have read others say they have problems, but what specifically are you running in to?


 I have to use VE PRO, because I have all my East West libraries on my PC. I don't like having hundreds and hundreds of tracks for each articulation you see. Would rather a cleaner template.


----------



## stonzthro

Search the forum, there is a TON of information on VEPro6 - works great, as does ArtzID.


----------



## stonzthro

Also, are you cabling your instruments in the environment for a specific reason?

I know many used to suggest doing it this way, and avoiding MIDI channel 1 in multi-instrument use, but I haven't had to worry about that for a while - or maybe I'm mistaken and should be worrying about it!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

stonzthro said:


> Also, are you cabling your instruments in the environment for a specific reason?
> 
> I know many used to suggest doing it this way, and avoiding MIDI channel 1 in multi-instrument use, but I haven't had to worry about that for a while - or maybe I'm mistaken and should be worrying about it!


I was cabling the instruments because I have two computers.

The Mac Pro has Kontakt libraries on and the PC has EW ones.
So I have to emulate the AUv3 that way.

I could not find many more ways to do it.


----------



## dgburns

Simon Ravn said:


> The article you are linking to is from 2012 = Snow Leopard-ish time?
> 
> The setting from the terminal doesn't work anymore (I am on Yosemite), it just gives me back:
> 
> "The domain/default pair of (kCFPreferencesAnyApplication, AppleFontSmoothing) does not exist".
> 
> So seems it was removed in a later OS.
> 
> EDIT: Seems the command was changed to this: defaults -currentHost write -globalDomain AppleFontSmoothing -int 2
> 
> (it says "write" - makes more sense, in the link you sent it said "read" - wonder if that really worked...?!).
> 
> EDIT2: Didn't help for Logic though. Same thing.



Ok, thanks for correcting.

In the MAResources.plist entry for trackheader, the entry reads-

"NSFont:{System-Regular,13}"

This is why I believe the tracklist font is referring to the system os setting and not a custom font style, otherwise it would have been specified. BUT I'm only guessing, so please heed your own (likely more informed) counsel. The fact that some of us are experiencing crisp and clear fonts is baffling.


----------



## Soundhound

Is there a correlation btwn seeing crisp clear fonts and having a retina (or 4k) screen? I'm on a 2012 27 iMac and they are blurry. Anyone here on a non-retina, non-4k screen seeing the fonts clear and crisp?



dgburns said:


> Ok, thanks for correcting.
> 
> In the MAResources.plist entry for trackheader, the entry reads-
> 
> "NSFont:{System-Regular,13}"
> 
> This is why I believe the tracklist font is referring to the system os setting and not a custom font style, otherwise it would have been specified. BUT I'm only guessing, so please heed your own (likely more informed) counsel. The fact that some of us are experiencing crisp and clear fonts is baffling.


----------



## robh

Soundhound said:


> Is there a correlation btwn seeing crisp clear fonts and having a retina (or 4k) screen? I'm on a 2012 27 iMac and they are blurry. Anyone here on a non-retina, non-4k screen seeing the fonts clear and crisp?


I'm on a 1600 x 1200 screen (LCD). The fonts are not as crisp as dgburns, but seems to be not as bad as Simon.

Rob


----------



## Soundhound

I may have just answered my own question. I have a 2013 MacBook pro and just compared. Much sharper on the MacBook pro retina. This is an apple kind of thing, moving right along and not supporting previous tech in the little things. As Dwight Yoakam sang "She wore red dresses, and left the wounded behind." Not to be overly dramatic or anything.... 




Soundhound said:


> Is there a correlation btwn seeing crisp clear fonts and having a retina (or 4k) screen? I'm on a 2012 27 iMac and they are blurry. Anyone here on a non-retina, non-4k screen seeing the fonts clear and crisp?


----------



## whinecellar

Soundhound said:


> I may have just answered my own question. I have a 2013 MacBook pro and just compared. Much sharper on the MacBook pro retina.



I can confirm the same here. 10.3 looks perfect on my MBP 2014 Retina - smooth fonts and all. As soon as I move it to my Philips 40" 4K (even at full 3840 x 2160), it looks nowhere near as good - and the fonts are downright ugly by comparison.

Amazing how it can make such a difference!


----------



## resound

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I was cabling the instruments because I have two computers.
> 
> The Mac Pro has Kontakt libraries on and the PC has EW ones.
> So I have to emulate the AUv3 that way.
> 
> I could not find many more ways to do it.


Are you cabling multis in the environment? SS2/ARTzID eliminates the need for this since you can load 16+ articulations on one instrument track.


----------



## DocMidi657

whinecellar said:


> I can confirm the same here. 10.3 looks perfect on my MBP 2014 Retina - smooth fonts and all. As soon as I move it to my Philips 40" 4K (even at full 3840 x 2160), it looks nowhere near as good - and the fonts are downright ugly by comparison.
> 
> Amazing how it can make such a difference!


Same for me on MacBook Pro Retina looks great but on my Samsung monitors not as nice.


----------



## lpuser

Not sure if this is of help for anyone, but today I found a few general infos regarding "font smoothing" in OS X aka macOS. Have not tried it yet, because I can ready the fonts just fine, however some people claim it might help to improve the appearance of some text / fonts:

*Medium font smoothing:*
defaults -currentHost read -globalDomain AppleFontSmoothing -int 2

*Light font smoothing:*
defaults -currentHost read -globalDomain AppleFontSmoothing -int 1

*Strong font smoothing:*
defaults -currentHost read -globalDomain AppleFontSmoothing -int 3

You can reverse any of these font smoothing adjustments with the following defaults command:
defaults -currentHost delete -globalDomain AppleFontSmoothing


----------



## Soundhound

That's a drag. Seems like it's optimized for their retina displays exclusively. 

Sad! (sorry, couldn't resist...)




whinecellar said:


> I can confirm the same here. 10.3 looks perfect on my MBP 2014 Retina - smooth fonts and all. As soon as I move it to my Philips 40" 4K (even at full 3840 x 2160), it looks nowhere near as good - and the fonts are downright ugly by comparison.
> 
> Amazing how it can make such a difference!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Yup, this is an established issue. The fonts are fuzzy on regular displays.


----------



## jeffc

Wondering if anyone else has noticed this annoying bug. If you click drag to copy a region - it snaps way far to the right of where you drag. No idea why, but it's really a workflow killer. Never happened on the prior version. I think I read somewhere that if you start before bar 1 it's an issue. Any ideas? Thanks.


----------



## davidgary73

jeffc said:


> Wondering if anyone else has noticed this annoying bug. If you click drag to copy a region - it snaps way far to the right of where you drag. No idea why, but it's really a workflow killer. Never happened on the prior version. I think I read somewhere that if you start before bar 1 it's an issue. Any ideas? Thanks.



Yes..is a bug. As long your start point is before 1 1 1 1, the region will snap a bar later. So best is to start your projects at 1 1 1 1 and it will work fine


----------



## Simon Ravn

Soundhound said:


> I may have just answered my own question. I have a 2013 MacBook pro and just compared. Much sharper on the MacBook pro retina. This is an apple kind of thing, moving right along and not supporting previous tech in the little things. As Dwight Yoakam sang "She wore red dresses, and left the wounded behind." Not to be overly dramatic or anything....



4K monitors is hardly a "previous tech"...  Mine is on a 4K screen at 3840x2160 - fonts looked jagged and fuzzy.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Yup, this is an established issue. The fonts are fuzzy on regular displays.



... but 4K monitors ARE "retina" - they should be treated just like a Macbook Pro's display - or an LG "ultrafine". Unless Apple are intentionally making the display worse on everything they don't sell/endorse - but even though it's Apple we are talking here, I doubt it. It must be some bug.


----------



## IFM

Fonts on my old 23" cinema displays look exactly the same as they did before. However I actually noticed a font change several versions ago. The font use to shrink as I got to the smallest zoomed out level. At some point last year it stopped.


----------



## Baron Greuner

5K Mac screen Logic 10.3 looks very good here.


----------



## babylonwaves

Simon Ravn said:


> 4K monitors is hardly a "previous tech"...  Mine is on a 4K screen at 3840x2160 - fonts looked jagged and fuzzy.


there is a difference in between screen estate and resolution. 4K means you have loads of pixels t show information. but it doesn't mean that the resolution is high. "Retina" (or whatever the company in question calls it) means that you have loads of pixels highly packed on a small space. and that's what you need in order to make something look crystal sharp and clear. the newer mac book pros have it, the 5k imac has it but not every UHD/4k display.
logic is using the same font like the system and it is likely that it is using the same technique to display it. the system font, e.g. the apple menu, is slightly larger and it is black on white instead of white on grey. the reduced contrast chosen for logic adds to the impression that things are not crystal clear.
from my personal point of view, i don't have an issue with the way the font looks on my 34" UHD display. it doesn't make an impact on how comfortable it feels to operate logic. but I can see what others mean and I guess this all depends on how distracting a certain thing is for you.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

resound said:


> Are you cabling multis in the environment? SS2/ARTzID eliminates the need for this since you can load 16+ articulations on one instrument track.


I have not really looked into doing this much for using it with EastWest instruments. Also some of the woodwind KS instruments have broken notes as I found recently (thanks EW).


----------



## Heinigoldstein

That´s the great thing about it, you do not have to use the KS patches and still get key switches. But wrong thread for this


----------



## Soundhound

Yes it would be good to know what the difference is in the tech btw an apple retina screen and a 4k, aside from the higher resolution. As SimonRavn says 4k screens are hardly old tech, I've been looking into getting one soon...

This is symptomatic of Apple's history of creating closed systems (hardware and software) which has created many wonderful things over the years, but has its pitfalls. Their increased focus on consumer rather than pro products over the last decade could also be part of this—fewer resources, etc... 

Whatever... seems like this would be a very good thing to alert them to. A big part of their pro market for Logic is staring at fuzzy fonts. Teeny weeny fuzzy fonts. They're going to need to include complimentary bottles of advil with the new mac pro whenever it comes out...



babylonwaves said:


> there is a difference in between screen estate and resolution. 4K means you have loads of pixels t show information. but it doesn't mean that the resolution is high. "Retina" (or whatever the company in question calls it) means that you have loads of pixels highly packed on a small space. and that's what you need in order to make something look crystal sharp and clear. the newer mac book pros have it, the 5k imac has it but not every UHD/4k display.
> logic is using the same font like the system and it is likely that it is using the same technique to display it. the system font, e.g. the apple menu, is slightly larger and it is black on white instead of white on grey. the reduced contrast chosen for logic adds to the impression that things are not crystal clear.
> from my personal point of view, i don't have an issue with the way the font looks on my 34" UHD display. it doesn't make an impact on how comfortable it feels to operate logic. but I can see what others mean and I guess this all depends on how distracting a certain thing is for you.


----------



## jacobthestupendous

I'm curious if anyone has tried this with the new LG 5K monitors. Are those "retina" displays too or just very high resolution?

BTW, I'm liking the new UI and fonts just fine on my crappy old 22" 1050x1680 monitors. When I eventually upgrade to a bigger and much higher res screen, maybe I'll have a different opinion.


----------



## Simon Ravn

babylonwaves said:


> there is a difference in between screen estate and resolution. 4K means you have loads of pixels t show information. but it doesn't mean that the resolution is high. "Retina" (or whatever the company in question calls it) means that you have loads of pixels highly packed on a small space. and that's what you need in order to make something look crystal sharp and clear. the newer mac book pros have it, the 5k imac has it but not every UHD/4k display.
> logic is using the same font like the system and it is likely that it is using the same technique to display it.



I am totally aware of what 4K is. Bottom line is, this is just now beginning to come to consumers as 24-32" computer monitors - so it's not "old tech" in any way. And no, Logic is not rendering the same way as the system does. My system font looks fine, the font looks fine in Vienna Ensemble Pro and every other application (like this web browser) - just not Logic Pro 10.3.


----------



## resound

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Yup, this is an established issue. The fonts are fuzzy on regular displays.


Looks great on my regular display


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

I've looked at it on two not-Retina monitors: 11" MacBook Air and 30" Cinema Display on Mac Pro. Both look pretty much like this.

To be... clear, it's not like Total Ass™ or anything, just a little fuzzy.


----------



## babylonwaves

menu bar vs. logic on a non-retina display.


----------



## jacobthestupendous

babylonwaves said:


> menu bar vs. logic on a non-retina display.


Is that a photograph of your non-retina display, or is it a screenshot. If it's the latter, then it will be reinterpreted by whatever display we're using to browse the forum.


----------



## whinecellar

Man, I'm trying to like the look of 10.3, but in addition to the font rendering, it just feels washed out and low-contrast compared to prior versions. Hopefully the devs will continue the trend toward more user customization (still missing the custom color palette in 9) - but until then, I'm just keeping "display contrast" bumped up a bit in the Accessibility pane of system prefs. Much improved, IMO.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> Is that a photograph of your non-retina display, or is it a screenshot. If it's the latter, then it will be reinterpreted by whatever display we're using to browse the forum.



You can see the blurriness very clearly in those screen shots. They're standard PNGs.


----------



## whinecellar

This is a perfect example of the font rendering difference between 10.3 and prior versions. Top is 10.2.4, bottom is 10.3.


----------



## Soundhound

Great! That helps, thanks. Moving the Display contrast slider a bit also makes things a bit more distinct. May be just the contrast btwn the text and darker backgrounds, but definitely helps a bit for me. 




whinecellar said:


> Man, I'm trying to like the look of 10.3, but in addition to the font rendering, it just feels washed out and low-contrast compared to prior versions. Hopefully the devs will continue the trend toward more user customization (still missing the custom color palette in 9) - but until then, I'm just keeping "display contrast" bumped up a bit in the Accessibility pane of system prefs. Much improved, IMO.


----------



## babylonwaves

jacobthestupendous said:


> Is that a photograph of your non-retina display, or is it a screenshot. If it's the latter, then it will be reinterpreted by whatever display we're using to browse the forum.


it is a screenshot made on a non-retina display. i'm looking at it right now through a retina display and it looks the same.


----------



## jacobthestupendous

Nick Batzdorf said:


> You can see the blurriness very clearly in those screen shots. They're standard PNGs.





babylonwaves said:


> it is a screenshot made on a non-retina display. i'm looking at it right now through a retina display and it looks the same.


What BW did was like sharing an audio file that he bounced directly out of Logic so we could hear how bad it sounded on his speakers. We'll hear it on our speakers, not his. 

I always enjoy television commercials advertising newer, better televisions. My favorite are the old ones for Sharp Aquos TV's with yellow pixels in addition to the red, green, and blue ones on every other screen; they always show lots of yellow stuff while telling you that you can't really see it.


----------



## babylonwaves

jacobthestupendous said:


> What BW just was like sharing an audio file that he bounced directly out of Logic so we could hear how bad it sounded on his speakers. We'll hear it on our speakers, not his.


i just wanted to show simon the difference in sharpness in between the dropdown menu (which is not done by logic) and the rest once both have a similar color scheme. enjoy your adverts


----------



## jacobthestupendous

babylonwaves said:


> i just wanted to show simon the difference in sharpness in between the dropdown menu (which is not done by logic) and the rest once both have a similar color scheme. enjoy your adverts


My bad. Sorry, carry on.


----------



## Baron Greuner

whinecellar said:


> This is a perfect example of the font rendering difference between 10.3 and prior versions. Top is 10.2.4, bottom is 10.3.



The same on a iMac 5K screen is pin sharp. I suppose they must have optimised Logic 10.3 for the 5K Retina screens.


----------



## synthpunk

Please be sure to report the screen issue to Logic support. Hopefully they do something for 10.3.1

New screens are not in my budget this year.


----------



## Ashermusic

synthpunk said:


> Please be sure to report the screen issue to Logic support. Hopefully they do something for 10.3.1
> 
> New screens are not in my budget this year.



I would be surprised. I think it is clear their efforts are aimed at newer Mac towers and laptops with Retina screens.


----------



## clisma

Could anyone please confirm that "Go To Position" does not retain the last entered value and instead resets back to 1 1 1 1? They had eradicated this bug in 10.2.x and now it seems to be back over here. Drives me nuts.


----------



## synthpunk

Forced upgrading a long-standing Apple tradition 



Ashermusic said:


> I would be surprised. I think it is clear their efforts are aimed at newer Mac towers and laptops with Retina screens.


----------



## blinkofani

clisma said:


> Could anyone please confirm that "Go To Position" does not retain the last entered value and instead resets back to 1 1 1 1? They had eradicated this bug in 10.2.x and now it seems to be back over here. Drives me nuts.


It's a confirmed bug that is back. Always comes back every 2-3 updates since the X era. Another one that seemed to come back every once in a while is the auto-zoom track/show automation where the other non-zoomed tracks would show automation when using the key command if one track is zoomed. We're clear for now with this one.


----------



## clisma

Thanks for the confirmation blinkofani. Heading to the feedback form now...


----------



## clisma

Is anyone seeing a problem with FILE>EXPORT>Region(s) As Audio File(s)?

I'm doing a private sampling session and have laid out my samples by chord (Am, Cm, Ebm, etc.) as separate regions of the same track for each articulation (see attached pic, please).

When doing an export with the function mentioned above, if all regions are selected, or even just a couple, Logic gives me the wrong chords in the export (as in, Cm will sound like Am, meaning it exported the wrong region but still named it for the intended chord).

If I export each region by itself, it works just fine. Before I post this to the Logic team, it would be great to know that it's not an isolated instance. Thanks.


----------



## Heinigoldstein

I´m very curious about if people that experienced a lot of crashes after updating solved the problem ? I still have a lot of crashes. No spinning ball, but Logic shuts down abruptly, 2-3 times every hour......I can be wrong, but I have the feeling it happens mostly in large projects with VE-Pro.

And I still experience weird behavior while editing......regions jump all over the place while dragging, mouse selections are more difficult.......it just doesn´t feel very solid on my setup anymore.


----------



## stonzthro

Heinigoldstein said:


> I´m very curious about if people that experienced a lot of crashes after updating solved the problem ? I still have a lot of crashes. No spinning ball, but Logic shuts down abruptly, 2-3 times every hour......I can be wrong, but I have the feeling it happens mostly in large projects with VE-Pro.
> 
> And I still experience weird behavior while editing......regions jump all over the place while dragging, mouse selections are more difficult.......it just doesn´t feel very solid on my setup anymore.


I have a massive VE-Pro template (over 1200 tracks in my largest template) and I don't have shut-downs at all. Maybe you've got an unstable plug-in somewhere?


----------



## Ashermusic

stonzthro said:


> I have a massive VE-Pro template (over 1200 tracks in my largest template) and I don't have shut-downs at all. Maybe you've got an unstable plug-in somewhere?




No problem here, but the regions jumping around is a known bug to the devlopers, especially if your project begins before bar 1. Expect a fix soon.


----------



## Heinigoldstein

stonzthro said:


> I have a massive VE-Pro template (over 1200 tracks in my largest template) and I don't have shut-downs at all. Maybe you've got an unstable plug-in somewhere?



It was rock solid before the update and a few others were reporting crashes with 10.3. too, so I´m hoping for some ideas what it might cause in case they fixed it. 
On the other hand, I had to update my OS too for 10.3., so I don´t know 100% if it is Logic or Sierra with my late 2012 mac.


----------



## whinecellar

stonzthro said:


> I have a massive VE-Pro template (over 1200 tracks in my largest template) and I don't have shut-downs at all. Maybe you've got an unstable plug-in somewhere?



@Heinigoldstein, same here - I run a similar VE Pro template and I've been on 10.3 for a week now with not one glitch, other than a minor redraw issue when I have arrange, piano roll and score windows open all at the same time And yes, I know it's now called the 'tracks' window but I'm a 24-year Logic vet so I can't bring myself to call it that 

I would suspect either a plugin or some other upgrade issue as well, because 10.3. has been rock solid for a lot of folks so far. Wish I could be of more help, but I'd start with any 3rd party plugins, especially since you just updated to Sierra - not everything is kosher there yet. I'm still on El Cap, FWIW.

Cheers...


----------



## Heinigoldstein

Well thanks a lot for all replies, I was afraid these kind of answer would come, looks like I've some work to do


----------



## OleJoergensen

I am experincing a strange thing.
Im using East West QL pianos. My el-piano are connected to my Mac by Edirol UM1 midi/usb interface.
After I have been playing for a while and stop for like 20 seconds to change score or drink coffee , the sounds in Logic disappears. I can see in Logic there is still midi signal. I have to either force shut down or change buffer size, to reload samples, to fix it. I thought the midi/usb interface was to old and today bought UM-one mkII usb/midi interface and installed a Mac os 10.2 compatible driver, but it didn't fix the problem.
I will try tomorrow to see if the problem also occurs with Kontakt.

Specs: Mac Sierra, Logic 10.3, Play 5.0.1`

Anyone experiencing this or know how to fix this problem?


----------



## Soundhound

I'm getting regions being deleted when just clicked on. Reporting to apple...


----------



## Heinigoldstein

OleJoergensen said:


> I am experincing a strange thing.
> Im using East West QL pianos. My el-piano are connected to my Mac by Edirol UM1 midi/usb interface.
> After I have been playing for a while and stop for like 20 seconds to change score or drink coffee , the sounds in Logic disappears. I can see in Logic there is still midi signal. I have to either force shut down or change buffer size, to reload samples, to fix it. I thought the midi/usb interface was to old and today bought UM-one mkII usb/midi interface and installed a Mac os 10.2 compatible driver, but it didn't fix the problem.
> I will try tomorrow to see if the problem also occurs with Kontakt.
> 
> Specs: Mac Sierra, Logic 10.3, Play 5.0.1`
> 
> Anyone experiencing this or know how to fix this problem?





OleJoergensen said:


> I am experincing a strange thing.
> Im using East West QL pianos. My el-piano are connected to my Mac by Edirol UM1 midi/usb interface.
> After I have been playing for a while and stop for like 20 seconds to change score or drink coffee , the sounds in Logic disappears. I can see in Logic there is still midi signal. I have to either force shut down or change buffer size, to reload samples, to fix it. I thought the midi/usb interface was to old and today bought UM-one mkII usb/midi interface and installed a Mac os 10.2 compatible driver, but it didn't fix the problem.
> I will try tomorrow to see if the problem also occurs with Kontakt.
> 
> Specs: Mac Sierra, Logic 10.3, Play 5.0.1`
> 
> Anyone experiencing this or know how to fix this problem?



I do not have to shut down, but randomly there is no sound, but I see midi coming in. When I change track it comes back. But this was the same in 10.2. and not only Play but every plug in.


----------



## OleJoergensen

Heinigoldstein said:


> I do not have to shut down, but randomly there is no sound, but I see midi coming in. When I change track it comes back. But this was the same in 10.2. and not only Play but every plug in.


Thank you for reply.
I tried change track but no sound. I also tried reload patch within Play but no sound. I don't recall I experienced this before Logic 10.3. It's a very annoying bug :-/


----------



## Simon Ravn

synthpunk said:


> Forced upgrading a long-standing Apple tradition



Oh I wouldn't mind upgrading - it's just that Apple haven't made anything to upgrade to for the past 7 years regarding a pro desktop Mac.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

My machine is:
Mac Pro 2012 12-Core
64GB of RAM and it is on macOS 10.12.3

I am running Logic Pro X 10.3 and VE Pro 6.0.15567.

Vienna Ensemble Pro has crashed at least 6 times today. And it causes Logic Pro X to hang as well.

Saving in VEP is unusually slow also.


----------



## whinecellar

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> My machine is:
> Mac Pro 2012 12-Core
> 64GB of RAM and it is on macOS 10.12.3
> 
> I am running Logic Pro X 10.3 and VE Pro 6.0.15567.
> 
> Vienna Ensemble Pro has crashed at least 6 times today. And it causes Logic Pro X to hang as well.
> 
> Saving in VEP is unusually slow also.



Interesting. I'm still on VEP 5.4.14074 on all my machines; everything else as per my signature below. Haven't had so much as a hiccup from anything. I do run VEP decoupled as well... you?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

whinecellar said:


> Interesting. I'm still on VEP 5.4.14074 on all my machines; everything else as per my signature below. Haven't had so much as a hiccup from anything. I do run VEP decoupled as well... you?


Yep,, my VEP is always decoupled. It is rather frustrating as I have been spending this time making ARTzID setups for my templates and now I keep having crashes, just as I want to get on :/

Perhaps I have too many instances of VE PRO in the main window, not sure. I did have to go this way though since there is only 1 port for Logic Pro X. Which is something I am not fussed about now, since ARTzID is amazing :D


----------



## Heinigoldstein

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Yep,, my VEP is always decoupled. It is rather frustrating as I have been spending this time making ARTzID setups for my templates and now I keep having crashes, just as I want to get on :/
> 
> Perhaps I have too many instances of VE PRO in the main window, not sure. I did have to go this way though since there is only 1 port for Logic Pro X. Which is something I am not fussed about now, since ARTzID is amazing :D



This is exactly my setup as well, only SkiSwitcher instead of ARTzID. Same old mac, Sierra and LP 10.3 with many instances. It was very soloid before 10.3. and Sieera here !!


----------



## OleJoergensen

Heinigoldstein said:


> I do not have to shut down, but randomly there is no sound, but I see midi coming in. When I change track it comes back. But this was the same in 10.2. and not only Play but every plug in.


You are right, it is not only Play plug in, I am experience the same with Kontact. I reverted to Logic 10.2.4 but the problem still occurs. Im quite sure before I didn't have this problem with Logic 10.2.4 so maybe is Sierra. I updated to Sierra as well as Logic 10.3. .


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I just hope we have a solution soon :/


----------



## Ashermusic

Simply not seeing that here.


----------



## Kaufmanmoon

Ashermusic said:


> Simply not seeing that here.



Jay, you are the Arsene Wenger of Logic. (An English football thing) You have the most reliable rig ever mentioned on this forum.
Kudos


----------



## Simon Ravn

I haven't had any crashes or any other problems with 10.3 (apart from the ugly font rendering). VEP connecting/disconnecting is speedier than ever, although that is probably to VSL's credit I am still on OS X 10.11.6 though, I don't see any reason to go Sierra before Apple forces me to.


----------



## Heinigoldstein

Since a few here report the same issues, something has to be wrong. Maybe its Sierra and 10.3. on 2012 Macs or what ever.......

I will go back to my 10.2. backup with Yosemite tomorrow, try to get an installer for El Capitan and start all over again :-(


----------



## nordicguy

Seems to work right here (OS X 10.11.6 / Logic X 10.3).
Related to Sierra, or others experimenting it under OS X 10.11.6 / Logic X 10.3 also?


----------



## jacobthestupendous

No trouble here; I even like the UI changes. I'm fully up to date, but I don't use VEPro (yet).


----------



## gpax

Tracking this thread, it might be helpful to reiterate focus in the posts (quote who you are replying to and/or confirming).

Some are now talking about VEP issues with LPX 10.3 at this point, and more specifically, in Sierra vs. previous OS versions (I believe there's now a dedicated thread for this, btw).

Others are still referencing issues resulting from the LPX update itself, irrespective of VEP, including GUI feedback from those on non-retina Macs vs. retina displays, etc.

I'm still working through issues and impressions to report, but wasn't sure what we were talking about at this point : )


----------



## gpax

jacobthestupendous said:


> No trouble here; I even like the UI changes. I'm fully up to date, but I don't use VEPro (yet).


Same here on the GUI, including a sigh of relief for the return of some modest customization options, and the addition of the top tier of lighter color hues. Being able to adjust a lighter arrange background, however, actually allows the previous colors better contrast (for me) as well. But I'm on a Retina display, which is beneficial. 

On the first day of release I had about three sudden quits which I found distressing, but only one log generated, indicating issues with Kontakt. Still monitoring this closely, as it seems to be relative to loading older projects. In the days since, I've actually seen improved handling throughout, where I'd routinely had stuttering issues in the past (and I tried optimizing everything). 

No VEP here either. But I only run 30+ instances of Kontakt, and customize templates per the respective project; I do load multiple articulation patches in an instance. The 10.3 update seems to handle single instances even better now.


----------



## Ashermusic

Kaufmanmoon said:


> Jay, you are the Arsene Wenger of Logic. (An English football thing) You have the most reliable rig ever mentioned on this forum.
> Kudos




Well I do have issues of course at times, just not what is being reported here.

The regions jumping around for instance, but they have a fix coming for that.


----------



## Christof

Nobody has major crashing issues?
Each time I try to bounce it crashes.
It also crashes when I insert a new time signature.
It crashes when I open or close a plug in window.
It transposes regions and notes randomly, it's like a ghost playing with my pitch bend.

I went back to 10.2.4, rock solid only system.
10.3 is a shame, at least on my system.


----------



## Vik

I've had some issues, including "eternal beachballs" and a few crashes, but nothing as bad as what you describe, Christof. But it's a .0 release, so you'd probably be better off with waiting until a .01 version is out (and take backups of your project, maybe try with new, empty songs (if you use templates or have projects that are old or based on templates), and maybe even temporarily try to remove your preferences, restart, and see if the same problems occur afterwards.


----------



## Heinigoldstein

Christof said:


> Nobody has major crashing issues?
> Each time I try to bounce it crashes.
> It also crashes when I insert a new time signature.
> It crashes when I open or close a plug in window.
> It transposes regions and notes randomly, it's like a ghost playing with my pitch bend.
> 
> I went back to 10.2.4, rock solid only system.
> 10.3 is a shame, at least on my system.



As stated before, me and some others do have a lot of crashes and I try to move back to 10.2.4 and El Capitan.


----------



## whinecellar

Christof said:


> Nobody has major crashing issues?
> Each time I try to bounce it crashes.
> It also crashes when I insert a new time signature.
> It crashes when I open or close a plug in window.
> It transposes regions and notes randomly, it's like a ghost playing with my pitch bend.
> 
> I went back to 10.2.4, rock solid only system.
> 10.3 is a shame, at least on my system.



Ugh - so sorry it's been like that for you, my friend! Very frustrating. I'm sure it's not helpful to read, but I haven't seen any of those issues, and as you know I'm in the middle of a rather ambitious project that you're a crucial part of  Many of the cues have really busy tempo & signature tracks as well, and I've been working on 10.3. for over a week now without so much as a hiccup. I'm starting to wonder if most issues I've seen are on rigs running Sierra? I'm still on 10.11.3 and VEP 5.4.14074, for what it's worth.

Did you try trashing Logic's prefs and letting 10.3 build new ones? Hope you get it sorted out!

Jim


----------



## jonathanwright

I'm get an occasional bug where dragging an audio file from the finder or the audio bin doesn't add a new track.

A restart fixes it, but then it can show up again.

I'd say all of my issues with 10.3 have been related to dragging and dropping.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

When I call up the Giant Time display, the hour and minute numbers are 2 to 3 times as large as the seconds and frames - is there any way to change that? I find it annoying.


----------



## Ashermusic

No.


----------



## jacobthestupendous

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> the hour and minute numbers are 2 to 3 times as large as the seconds


This would make sense for a normal clock, but it seems pretty silly here.


----------



## Ashermusic

jacobthestupendous said:


> This would make sense for a normal clock, but it seems pretty silly here.



I don't disagree.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

No one who works in film/tv would find this useful, IMO. We need to pay as much attention to seconds and frames as we do to minutes, or the mixers will be furious. Too bad.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Also, am I the only one who is finding that the Select Unused audio files is now buggy? For the first time in my memory, Logic keeps missing some unused files, and I have to select/delete the ones it missed by hand.


----------



## mc_deli

Kaufmanmoon said:


> Jay, you are the Arsene Wenger of Logic. (An English football thing) You have the most reliable rig ever mentioned on this forum.
> Kudos


rotfl


----------



## dgburns

Ok so today I was working on a cue where I had to copy a bunch of parts down the timeline. These were SM brass tracks where I have a number of cc's written. For some reason, notes went missing, and cc's were erased in a range inside the sequences (regions, or midi parts) and I can't for the life of me understand why. Never had this on previous versions. Now I'm a bit paranoid about it. It's not like things got erased right after being copied either, it would manifest itself after a few plays. I've had to fix so many things while trying to print out stems that it was ridiculous.

Dunno, maybe the mac was having a bad day or something. Just putting it out there in case someone else has had similar issues with 10.3 .

-edit-

While thinking about it, I noticed that if I overdubbed cc1 over an area that had been erased,the erased cc1 would show up merged with my new pass if I used "retrospective record", which is my default way of inputting midi. So it would seem that the data is still there, but is not playing or showing in the sequence part. This issue seems to show up when you edit the start point of the midi part (the sequence) ???


----------



## byzantium

I don't know if it's related, but in the past (pre-10.3) I've seen the midi notes disappear from the piano roll only to re-appear on a logic restart. (I've also had the cursor not changing shape and not taking up the required functionality in the vicinity of a visible note, e.g. to stretch the length).

So far today with 10.3 I've seen (1) transposed notes that I didn't think I transposed, (2) the event list not updating when I click on a region (after previously selecting automation events to lock them, don't know if related), and (3) some smpte-locked midi events within a section still moving when a tempo change is made. 

Finding a group of transposed notes was just weird. With the event list not refreshing, the only way I could fix this was to open up the project using 10.2.4 again (using the saved executable), not see the problem there, save the project, and open up the project in 10.3 again. With the smpte-locked events moving, that continued to happen even after opening the offending project in 10.2.4. I spent hours trying to solve it, and finally perhaps by chance/unrelated I don't know, enlarging the tempo region around the events before smpte-locking them, seemed to allow all those events to be locked and not move with tempo changes. I don't know, weird, can't explain it.


----------



## Christof

whinecellar said:


> Ugh - so sorry it's been like that for you, my friend! Very frustrating. I'm sure it's not helpful to read, but I haven't seen any of those issues, and as you know I'm in the middle of a rather ambitious project that you're a crucial part of  Many of the cues have really busy tempo & signature tracks as well, and I've been working on 10.3. for over a week now without so much as a hiccup. I'm starting to wonder if most issues I've seen are on rigs running Sierra? I'm still on 10.11.3 and VEP 5.4.14074, for what it's worth.
> 
> Did you try trashing Logic's prefs and letting 10.3 build new ones? Hope you get it sorted out!
> 
> Jim


I deleted all preferences and gave 10.3 another try: Much better now, very stable and fluid.Hope this won't change


----------



## Ashermusic

Christof said:


> I deleted all preferences and gave 10.3 another try: Much better now, very stable and fluid.Hope this won't change




Great! Make sure that you back up the preferences file to another drive so that if it goes south again, you can replace the current one with it.


----------



## byzantium

Christof said:


> I deleted all preferences and gave 10.3 another try: Much better now, very stable and fluid.Hope this won't change



@Christof Good to know you got sorted. (That's weird though, why crashes/erroneous behaviour is linked to preferences?). In any case, just wondering how you did it - did you just delete (after copying/renaming) com.apple.logic10.plist in ~/Library/Preferences? Did you also need to delete com.apple.logic.pro.cs (control surfaces) in the same folder? - I would hate to have to build that back up again manually, took me ages to figure out how to set up a nanokontrol2. Thanks.


----------



## whinecellar

Ashermusic said:


> Great! Make sure that you back up the preferences file to another drive so that if it goes south again, you can replace the current one with it.



GREAT advice! I've done this for years, especially since I use my main machine in two different environments with different audio hardware & controllers. Switching between them is as easy as option-dragging the pref files to my prefs folder before booting Logic. I'd also recommend letting Logic rebuild the main prefs file with each new release - it's this one for Logic X: com.apple.logic10.plist

I keep a folder on my desktop called "Logic Prefs" - and in each one, a subfolder for each recent release (9.1.8, 10.2.4 and 10.3.0 right now for me). As soon as you've set up fresh prefs for a new version, quit Logic and immediately option-drag these pref files to the folder on your desktop.

Then after a crash or in my case switching environments, it's as easy as option-dragging those clean prefs back into place. Then you can rule out a corrupt pref file when things act up 

Hope this helps!


----------



## nordicguy

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Also, am I the only one who is finding that the Select Unused audio files is now buggy? For the first time in my memory, Logic keeps missing some unused files, and I have to select/delete the ones it missed by hand.


Did a quick test and it seems to work correctly over here.
OS X 10.11.6 Lgc X 10.3


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Ashermusic said:


> Simply not seeing that here.


Perhaps I need to delete my prefs files for both VE PRO and Logic Pro 10.3...

Not something I have had to do before though :/


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Actually, the issue that has been driving me crazy is that Logic no longer finds unused regions. It still finds unused audio files. Why they changed this is beyond my comprehension.


----------



## blinkofani

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Actually, the issue that has been driving me crazy is that Logic no longer finds unused regions. It still finds unused audio files. Why they changed this is beyond my comprehension.


I read somewhere that the behaviour changed if you're using Alternatives, in that if those regions are used in an Alternative project, it might not let you find and delete them. If that's what you want to do. Do you use the Alternative projects feature? I might have misread also...


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Thanks, but I haven't used Alternatives yet.


----------



## luke_7

Christof said:


> Nobody has major crashing issues?
> Each time I try to bounce it crashes.
> It also crashes when I insert a new time signature.
> It crashes when I open or close a plug in window.
> It transposes regions and notes randomly, it's like a ghost playing with my pitch bend.
> 
> I went back to 10.2.4, rock solid only system.
> 10.3 is a shame, at least on my system.




Christof with reference to your post, everything works great here. No single crash !
OS X 10.11.6 LOGIC PRO X 10.3 NEW MAC PRO 64GB RAM ect.


----------



## lpuser

luke_7 said:


> Christof with reference to your post, everything works great here. No single crash !
> OS X 10.11.6 LOGIC PRO X 10.3 NEW MAC PRO 64GB RAM ect.



That´s good but Logic 10.3 definitely has crash issues. However they seem to mostly happen at random when using very large projects which are very CPU taxing. In such a case, Logic just "disappears" and one is thrown back to the desktop, however autosave conserves the last status, so all should be fine after restarting and reopening the song. Apple certainly is aware of this and I hope they can do something about it for 10.3.x.


----------



## Simon Ravn

lpuser said:


> That´s good but Logic 10.3 definitely has crash issues. However they seem to mostly happen at random when using very large projects which are very CPU taxing. In such a case, Logic just "disappears" and one is thrown back to the desktop, however autosave conserves the last status, so all should be fine after restarting and reopening the song. Apple certainly is aware of this and I hope they can do something about it for 10.3.x.



I just wonder if this is a Sierra issue...? Or an issue when working with templates built on older versions of Logic...? Usually I work off an old based template myself, but I haven't tried this with 10.3. Currently I am on Yosemite on a fresh template (10.2.4 started), with "very large" (track/complexity-wise) and "CPU taxing" projects and I haven't had a single crash for 10 days.

So I just wonder what variables could be at play here. I am mainly using VEP6 instances, a couple inside Logic itself too though.


----------



## luke_7

lpuser said:


> That´s good but Logic 10.3 definitely has crash issues. However they seem to mostly happen at random when using very large projects which are very CPU taxing. In such a case, Logic just "disappears" and one is thrown back to the desktop, however autosave conserves the last status, so all should be fine after restarting and reopening the song. Apple certainly is aware of this and I hope they can do something about it for 10.3.x.



Right now my projects has approximately 250 tracks in total ( software instruments/ audio / lots of plugins in the mixer ) i don't use templates though. 
How many of you (guys with problems ) use hackintosh ? I've heard some pretty bad things about logic pro x updates as well as operating system updates on hackintosh.


----------



## Heinigoldstein

lpuser said:


> That´s good but Logic 10.3 definitely has crash issues. However they seem to mostly happen at random when using very large projects which are very CPU taxing. In such a case, Logic just "disappears" and one is thrown back to the desktop, however autosave conserves the last status, so all should be fine after restarting and reopening the song. Apple certainly is aware of this and I hope they can do something about it for 10.3.x.



I confirm exactly this. Deleting prefs helps a bit, but still, if it becomes very cpu demanding it just disappears every now and then !


----------



## whinecellar

Simon Ravn said:


> I just wonder if this is a Sierra issue...? Or an issue when working with templates built on older versions of Logic...? Usually I work off an old based template myself, but I haven't tried this with 10.3. Currently I am on Yosemite on a fresh template (10.2.4 started), with "very large" (track/complexity-wise) and "CPU taxing" projects and I haven't had a single crash for 10 days.



Same here. Everywhere I look, the common denominator with odd 10.3 issues seems to be Sierra. Not always of course, but that's definitely a trend.

I'm in the middle of a massive project all based on a template I built from scratch a year ago in whatever version of Logic X was current at the time, and I haven't changed a thing about my rig since then other than adding some new libraries along the way and updating Logic. Still on El Cap 10.11.3, VE Pro 5.4.14074 and now Logic 10.3, and I haven't had 1 hiccup in almost 2 weeks since that update. Oh, and that template has over 1000 tracks in it, almost all of which point to VEP instances.

If you haven't updated to Sierra yet, I wouldn't. It adds nothing you need, at least to my knowledge.


----------



## Ashermusic

Gee, I dunno. Sierra is more stable here than El Cap was. most stable since Snow Leopard for me. Go figure.


----------



## samphony

Ashermusic said:


> Gee, I dunno. Sierra is more stable here than El Cap was. most stable since Snow Leopard for me. Go figure.



True. But it probably depends on audio and PC hardware involved etc. some people do a clean install as I did in one of our studios and on my own machine I just upgraded. The clean install had a couple of issues now and then and the upgraded one not one hiccup. It's like magic


----------



## Heinigoldstein

*Two more bugs that drive me crazy !
*
1)
Does anyone here experience random erasure of events too ? First I though I just did it myself by accident, because of the wonky mouse editing in 10.3, but now I´m 100% sure, that 10.3. erases events (notes and cc) by itself. It´s a project I started with 10.2.4.


2)
I work usually with a combination of edit windows (event, score,piano role). All linked together (yellow chain symbol). So when I select a note in the score window, the piano role jumps to this note too and the position of that note. But since 10.3. it seems to always jump to the curser position and vertically, it´s never in place neither. Did I miss something here ?

Oh, and the highlighting of selected notes in the piano role becomes worse every update...............or maybe it´s just my eyes ?

Does anybody know if I run into problems, when I continue in 10.2.4 with a project I meanwhile worked in 10.3. ?


----------



## whinecellar

Heinigoldstein said:


> 2)
> I work usually with a combination of edit windows (event, score,piano role). All linked together (yellow chain symbol).



I haven't seen the specific issues you mentioned in 10.3, but I do work a LOT in a screen set with 3 windows: tracks, piano roll and score - all linked. And I have noticed it can feel slow and glitchy at times in 10.3. There's also a repeatable bug where whatever region I'm working on gets deselected if I undo any edit, which gets old because I have to re-select that region to keep working on it after an "undo." And finally, the score window will sometimes invert its colors as well - one of the craziest GUI glitches I've seen in my 24 years of Logic use (and there have been many)...


----------



## Heinigoldstein

whinecellar said:


> I haven't seen the specific issues you mentioned in 10.3, but I do work a LOT in a screen set with 3 windows: tracks, piano roll and score - all linked. And I have noticed it can feel slow and glitchy at times in 10.3. There's also a repeatable bug where whatever region I'm working on gets deselected if I undo any edit, which gets old because I have to re-select that region to keep working on it after an "undo." And finally, the score window will sometimes invert its colors as well - one of the craziest GUI glitches I've seen in my 24 years of Logic use (and there have been many)...



That's the funny part. Everybody seems to have different bugs ! That pushes personalizing to far for my taste 

I know this program from times it was call "C-Lab Creator" and was running on Atari ST. Must have been short after World War II.


----------



## Nils Neumann

Anyone experienced random jumps back while playing? Most of the time one bar, it is extremely annoying and I can't find away to fix it...


----------



## samphony

whinecellar said:


> This is a perfect example of the font rendering difference between 10.3 and prior versions. Top is 10.2.4, bottom is 10.3.



Jim maybe try this. That helped me back when I started using 3rd party screen

The solution at http://embdev.net/topic/284710worked for me.

Attach your display, download the updated patch-edid.rb, run ruby patch-edid.rb in Terminal and reboot. Voila!

Tested and working on both Mountain Lion and Mavericks with two U2713H monitors.

I don't know if this is still valid nowadays.


----------



## samphony

I think it's about time the logic devs implement the ability to crash plugins on a separate thread without crashing logic. And while they are on it to implement AU v3 both shown 2 years ago at the WWDC. 

My guess most crashes are related to 3rd party plugins.


----------



## whinecellar

samphony said:


> Jim maybe try this. That helped me back when I started using 3rd party screen
> 
> The solution at http://embdev.net/topic/284710worked for me.
> 
> Attach your display, download the updated patch-edid.rb, run ruby patch-edid.rb in Terminal and reboot. Voila!
> 
> Tested and working on both Mountain Lion and Mavericks with two U2713H monitors.
> 
> I don't know if this is still valid nowadays.



Interesting - I'd be curious what kind of 3rd party display you're using, and if this script changed Logic 10.3's graphics rendering for you? Thanks!


----------



## samphony

whinecellar said:


> Interesting - I'd be curious what kind of 3rd party display you're using, and if this script changed Logic 10.3's graphics rendering for you? Thanks!



Im using the crossover (Korean company) UD44 a 40" 4K screen.


----------



## wbacer

I'm not necessarilty experiencing more crashes with Logic X 10.3 but I sure am as my template gets larger.
So how big is big? I just shake my head in amazement at those of you who are running 1000 track templates.
Does each track contain only one articulation?

I'm running the latest versions of MacOS, Logic, Kontakt, VEPro on a single 2016 12 core, Mac Pro with 128 gigs of ram. All of my vi's are on (8) external one TB Samsung 850 pro SSDs via Thunderbolt 2. I'm also using ARTzID so each instance of Kontakt may contain 6-8 different articulations. 

I cannot get my template larger than 65 or so tracks. I just finished building a 120 track template with mostly Spitfire and Orchestral Tools vi's and either Logic or VEPro crashes every time I hit play. I had to keep deleting tracks in Logic and instances in VEPro to get them to stop crashing. Interestingly enough the Mac is only running at about 50% CPU and only using about 60 gigs of the 128 gigs of available ram. This does not appear to be the issue, I feel like I still have horse power to space, but this dog will still not hunt.

So my question is how big did your templates get before you started adding PC slaves to off load your vi's? I'm feeling that if I want to add more tracks my next move is buy a PC slave and off load some of the vi's. 
I realize that there are a lot of variables but where is the tipping point?


----------



## Ashermusic

wbacer said:


> I'm not necessarilty experiencing more crashes with Logic X 10.3 but I sure am as my template gets larger.
> So how big is big? I just shake my head in amazement at those of you who are running 1000 track templates.
> Does each track contain only one articulation?
> 
> I'm running the latest versions of MacOS, Logic, Kontakt, VEPro on a single 2016 12 core, Mac Pro with 128 gigs of ram. All of my vi's are on (8) external one TB Samsung 850 pro SSDs via Thunderbolt 2. I'm also using ARTzID so each instance of Kontakt may contain 6-8 different articulations.
> 
> I cannot get my template larger than 65 or so tracks. I just finished building a 120 track template with mostly Spitfire and Orchestral Tools vi's and either Logic or VEPro crashes every time I hit play. I had to keep deleting tracks in Logic and instances in VEPro to get them to stop crashing. Interestingly enough the Mac is only running at about 50% CPU and only using about 60 gigs of the 128 gigs of available ram. This does not appear to be the issue, I feel like I still have horse power to space, but this dog will still not hunt.
> 
> So my question is how big did your templates get before you started adding PC slaves to off load your vi's? I'm feeling that if I want to add more tracks my next move is buy a PC slave and off load some of the vi's.
> I realize that there are a lot of variables but where is the tipping point?



Not sure about what the exact tipping point is, Eric, but you know that I believe that a PC slave is the way to go for templates as massive as what you are trying to achieve.

That said, with that much CPU and RAM still available, not sure why you are not able to do more than you seem to be able to.


----------



## whinecellar

Yeah @wbacer, I'd second what Jay said. I only added my first PC slave a year ago and have been running "massive" templates long before that. I only made the move to Logic X a year ago though, and rebuilt my whole template from scratch when I did that.

It's worth noting my whole rig is based on a 2014 MacBook Pro Retina with 16 GB RAM, but it runs my 1000+ track template with ease. About 130-150 VIs run on that main machine (most in VE Pro), while all the rest are on my 3 Mac slaves and 1 PC slave. I don't do any ARTzID or any of that stuff - each track addresses a single VE Pro instance, or sub-channel of a 16-channel Kontakt multi.

So yeah, what you're attempting should be EASILY doable! So sorry it's been a bumpy road for you!


----------



## Vik

wbacer said:


> I cannot get my template larger than 65 or so tracks. I just finished building a 120 track template with mostly Spitfire and Orchestral Tools vi's and either Logic or VEPro crashes every time I hit play.


I hope you are reporting these crashes to Apple. The Mac shouldn't crash in an overload situation, it should give you some kind of error message.


----------



## wbacer

Vik said:


> I hope you are reporting these crashes to Apple. The Mac shouldn't crash in an overload situation, it should give you some kind of error message.


My Mac itself is not crashing but in an effort to move things forward I have been reporting the crashes.
Both Logic and VEPro do give me an error message saying that they have "Unexpectedly Quit." The Logic teams says it's a VEPro issue and Vienna says it's a Logic issue and they both say that Kontakt is the culprit. A lot of the usual finger pointing, so go figure.


----------



## Ashermusic

wbacer said:


> My Mac itself is not crashing but in an effort to move things forward I have been reporting the crashes.
> Both Logic and VEPro do give me an error message saying that they have "Unexpectedly Quit." The Logic teams says it's a VEPro issue and Vienna says it's a Logic issue and they both say that Kontakt is the culprit. A lot of the usual finger pointing, so go figure.




IMHO, the smart money bet is on Kontakt, the common denominator.


----------



## wbacer

whinecellar said:


> Yeah @wbacer, I'd second what Jay said. I only added my first PC slave a year ago and have been running "massive" templates long before that. I only made the move to Logic X a year ago though, and rebuilt my whole template from scratch when I did that.
> 
> It's worth noting my whole rig is based on a 2014 MacBook Pro Retina with 16 GB RAM, but it runs my 1000+ track template with ease. About 130-150 VIs run on that main machine (most in VE Pro), while all the rest are on my 3 Mac slaves and 1 PC slave. I don't do any ARTzID or any of that stuff - each track addresses a single VE Pro instance, or sub-channel of a 16-channel Kontakt multi.
> 
> So yeah, what you're attempting should be EASILY doable! So sorry it's been a bumpy road for you!


I'm amazed that all of that works using a MacBook Pro running Logic. I also have a 2014 MacBook Pro Retina with 16 GB RAM. I'm going to hook that up running Logic and use my Mac Pro as a slave and see if that helps. Thanks for the idea. I would have never thought of setting it up that way.


----------



## wbacer

Ashermusic said:


> IMHO, the smart money bet is on Kontakt, the common denominator.


Yup, I think your right. Time to roll it back to 5.5.2


----------



## Soundhound

130 VIs in 16 gigs?! How many can you use at the same time?



whinecellar said:


> Yeah @wbacer, I'd second what Jay said. I only added my first PC slave a year ago and have been running "massive" templates long before that. I only made the move to Logic X a year ago though, and rebuilt my whole template from scratch when I did that.
> 
> It's worth noting my whole rig is based on a 2014 MacBook Pro Retina with 16 GB RAM, but it runs my 1000+ track template with ease. About 130-150 VIs run on that main machine (most in VE Pro), while all the rest are on my 3 Mac slaves and 1 PC slave. I don't do any ARTzID or any of that stuff - each track addresses a single VE Pro instance, or sub-channel of a 16-channel Kontakt multi.
> 
> So yeah, what you're attempting should be EASILY doable! So sorry it's been a bumpy road for you!


----------



## mc_deli

Soundhound said:


> 130 VIs in 16 gigs?! How many can you use at the same time?


you wanna read the bit about 4 slaves


----------



## whinecellar

Soundhound said:


> 130 VIs in 16 gigs?! How many can you use at the same time?


Yeah, I put a lot of thought into allocating all my libraries between machines. The ~130 VIs on my main machine are mostly smaller ones like Symbobia, a bunch of custom EXS patches and per-cue things like Nexus, Omnisphere, RMX, guitars, etc. All the heavyweights run on my slaves


----------



## Soundhound

the guess i missread it. i thought he was saying that 130 vi's are served up on the main mac and the rest on the slaves.



mc_deli said:


> you wanna read the bit about 4 slaves


----------



## Soundhound

ah i see, thanks.


whinecellar said:


> Yeah, I put a lot of thought into allocating all my libraries between machines. The ~130 VIs on my main machine are mostly smaller ones like Symbobia, a bunch of custom EXS patches and per-cue things like Nexus, Omnisphere, RMX, guitars, etc. All the heavyweights run on my slaves


----------



## whinecellar

Soundhound said:


> the guess i missread it. i thought he was saying that 130 vi's are served up on the main mac and the rest on the slaves.


That is true - I do run about 130 VIs on my main Mac, and everything else runs on my slaves.


----------



## Soundhound

Thanks. Very impressive you run a big system like that all through a MacBook pro. Food for thought. 



whinecellar said:


> That is true - I do run about 130 VIs on my main Mac, and everything else runs on my slaves.


----------



## wbacer

whinecellar said:


> That is true - I do run about 130 VIs on my main Mac, and everything else runs on my slaves.


The last time I tried something like that on my MacBook Pro the fan went into hyperdrive and I thought it was going to take off and fly out the window. I'll try it again and see what happens. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## xenon1

very good news!


----------



## whinecellar

wbacer said:


> The last time I tried something like that on my MacBook Pro the fan went into hyperdrive and I thought it was going to take off and fly out the window. I'll try it again and see what happens. Thanks for the heads up.


Yeah, that was a huge concern for me since my setup would necessitate the MB Pro being just a few feet away, and my control room is essentially silent. I ran a lot of torture tests before committing to it, and the fan did come on once in a while, but it was very quiet. Under most circumstances it doesn't come on at all, even with my big template.


----------



## Soundhound

I was wondering your reason for using a MacBook pro as the nerve center in your setup? Do you have a different template for use when traveling, or it's not needed to be portable so not really an issue?



whinecellar said:


> Yeah, that was a huge concern for me since my setup would necessitate the MB Pro being just a few feet away, and my control room is essentially silent. I ran a lot of torture tests before committing to it, and the fan did come on once in a while, but it was very quiet. Under most circumstances it doesn't come on at all, even with my big template.


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## samphony

Did anybody notice the new "* Track(s) as Audio File" options?
Very cool when exporting STEMS etc







Edit: its part of any export dialog now which makes it easier to create filename patterns


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## whinecellar

Soundhound said:


> I was wondering your reason for using a MacBook pro as the nerve center in your setup? Do you have a different template for use when traveling, or it's not needed to be portable so not really an issue?



Oddly enough, the only reason I use the MB Pro as my main machine is because it's the only Mac I have at the moment that can drive a big 4k display at full resolution. I do use this machine when touring as well, so that's a nice bonus - but really, it comes down to the 4k capability. Like everyone else though, I'm hoping to see a new Mac Pro sometime this decade... when that happens, I'll probably make the switch.


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## Soundhound

I see, thanks makes perfect sense, I've seen your posts regarding your 4k. I'm in the waiting for godot/mac pro boat as well. 



whinecellar said:


> Oddly enough, the only reason I use the MB Pro as my main machine is because it's the only Mac I have at the moment that can drive a big 4k display at full resolution. I do use this machine when touring as well, so that's a nice bonus - but really, it comes down to the 4k capability. Like everyone else though, I'm hoping to see a new Mac Pro sometime this decade... when that happens, I'll probably make the switch.


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## Shad0wLandsUK

wbacer said:


> I'm not necessarilty experiencing more crashes with Logic X 10.3 but I sure am as my template gets larger.
> So how big is big? I just shake my head in amazement at those of you who are running 1000 track templates.
> Does each track contain only one articulation?
> 
> I'm running the latest versions of MacOS, Logic, Kontakt, VEPro on a single 2016 12 core, Mac Pro with 128 gigs of ram. All of my vi's are on (8) external one TB Samsung 850 pro SSDs via Thunderbolt 2. I'm also using ARTzID so each instance of Kontakt may contain 6-8 different articulations.
> 
> I cannot get my template larger than 65 or so tracks. I just finished building a 120 track template with mostly Spitfire and Orchestral Tools vi's and either Logic or VEPro crashes every time I hit play. I had to keep deleting tracks in Logic and instances in VEPro to get them to stop crashing. Interestingly enough the Mac is only running at about 50% CPU and only using about 60 gigs of the 128 gigs of available ram. This does not appear to be the issue, I feel like I still have horse power to space, but this dog will still not hunt.
> 
> So my question is how big did your templates get before you started adding PC slaves to off load your vi's? I'm feeling that if I want to add more tracks my next move is buy a PC slave and off load some of the vi's.
> I realize that there are a lot of variables but where is the tipping point?



I have to agree this is very concerning that you have 128GB of RAM and yet you cannot work the way you are trying to. I only 64GB of RAM in a 2012 Mac Pro 12-Core and I am able to run right up until I reach about 4GB of RAM out of that feee.

I do run my PC slave which is a quad-core i7 4770K with 32GB of RAM and on an ASUS Maximus VI Formula setup, running Windows 10 Pro.

I am thinking as Jay said that it is down to Kontakt. I have had crashes in Logic Pro X 10.3 as well, which have been when I am loading patches or tweaking things in Kontakt 5.6.5. Unlike in the past I am getting none of this when I am making changes or loading into PLAY 5.0.1.

Also thinking about going back to Kontakt 5.5 here because of this, but so far the issues are not huge.

Not to get into semantics..but you do mean 2013 Mac Pro right....and you are just saying you bought it in 2016....


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## vewilya

samphony said:


> Did anybody notice the new "* Track(s) as Audio File" options?
> Very cool when exporting STEMS etc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: its part of any export dialog now which makes it easier to create filename patterns


Yes!! True! You really should check Edgar Rothermich's Logic Pro manuals! I was amazed at what I didn't know about this and other updates. Really recommended! He explains about this feature and others in incredible detail!


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## gpax

I'm gathering my personal list of 10.3 issues to report, all of which have been mentioned here and in other threads - except for one. 

So far I have encountered the copy bug, disappearing elements, regions jumping to random locations/tracks when moving, and one very peculiar thing: I've had a velocity note "handle bar" in the lane editor intermittently play a random note when grabbing to move it. These shouldn't trigger notes at all, and it's not even the same pitch of the corresponding MIDI - I've encountered this about four times now. Has anyone else seen this?


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## resound

Has anyone else noticed this bug:

In the piano roll, if you click and drag the CC window all the way down to the bottom to close it, then immediately click and drag to make a selection of notes, the CC window opens up again and takes up the whole piano roll window.


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## Heinigoldstein

resound said:


> Has anyone else noticed this bug:
> 
> In the piano roll, if you click and drag the CC window all the way down to the bottom to close it, then immediately click and drag to make a selection of notes, the CC window opens up again and takes up the whole piano roll window.



Not exactly this, but it fits to all the weird behaviour I've experienced within the editors. And every day something new appears. I'm really hoping for at least a .....3.01 version soon !!!


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## Heinigoldstein

So, one last summery from my side on this massive thread:

I did a test the last two days to find out, if crashes and bugs are related to Sierra or older Macs. I pinched my wives late 2015 iMac with El Capitan and installed Logic, VE-Pro and the most important plugins from my original system, a late 2012 Mac Pro 12core with Sierra. The ladder I used as a 2nd slave during the test.

It´s running a little better, but there are still much more crashes than in 10.2.4, weird editing bugs, strange behavior of jumping back and for in the piano role and a quite a few more. So it doesn´t seem to be related to the OS.
It might be better, if you start a new project from scratch, but it´s not an option for me to build a new template for every update and I have quite a view long time projects I´ld need to finish too.

But my huge problem now is, how to tell my wive, that she doen´t get back her iMac, because, besides of the 10.3. bugs, this setup runs so much smoother :-(


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## Ashermusic

Not surprising that a 1.0 new version would have some bugs that a fourth iteration of the previous one did not. Patience, my children, help is on the way.


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## Heinigoldstein

I hear you !


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## stonzthro

wbacer said:


> Yup, I think your right. Time to roll it back to 5.5.2


Did this solve your problem? I've recently come across this on projects that use local instances only. 20-30 plug-ins and I get beach balls but my RAM and CPU are nowhere NEAR the tipping point. Very frustrating to say the least.


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## MarcelM

not sure if it was posted already, but for those not liking the new gui in 10.3 there is hope 

https://logicxinterfaces.wordpress.com/


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## wbacer

stonzthro said:


> Did this solve your problem? I've recently come across this on projects that use local instances only. 20-30 plug-ins and I get beach balls but my RAM and CPU are nowhere NEAR the tipping point. Very frustrating to say the least.


I did role back to 5.5.2, boy was that a lot of fun. NOT
Good thing I had all of my libraries backed up as quiet a few would not play in 5.5.2. since they were batch re-saved in Kontakt 6
All of the libraries are now playing in 5.5.2 and neither Logic nor VEPro are crashing but I still can't get Logic to play my empty template. As soon as I hit play I just get the spinning beach ball for about 2 minutes. I keep deleting tracks looking for the tipping point but still have not found it. All of my tracks have 10 or more articulations as I'm using ARTzID to switch between them. Maybe that's part of the problem, too many articulations in each instance of Kontakt. I dunno, I'll keep fiddling with it until I find the problem. Thanks everyone for your suggestions.


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## wbacer

Go figure, yesterday crash and burn.
Today all I did was fire the system back up and it all just flows like honey.
I really think rolling back to Kontakt 5.5.2 made the difference.
I also believe that computers and virtual instruments are a lot like real players, sometime they just get tired and need a nap.


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## sourcefor

Yeah there is a bug when trying to drag regions they do Not drop where you intend to drop them and drag and drop loops is a bit screwy as well!


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## pdub

10.3.1 feels really smooth. Also the graphics issues I was having seem to have been addressed. Looks a bit darker now? Fonts are a little fatter?


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