# Where to get started making money as a composer?



## rickymackie (Jun 9, 2014)

I am a Seattle, Washington based composer, audio engineer and sound designer with a recent Bachelors degree in Music Production. 

I am about 3 months into the 'real world' and cannot, for the life of me, find any work. I am getting very discouraged and overwhelmed. But I keep writing music, because I love it and ideas are constantly flowing, but work is not flowing in my direction. 

I would love to assist a composer or be a music editor, but I have no idea where to look or start. What can I do? Anyone out there have any advice for me? Does anyone know of anything around the Seattle, Washington area?

Thanks for your help!

-Ricky
http://www.rickykendallcomposer.com


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## Simplesly (Jun 9, 2014)

Hi Ricky,

Welcome to the forum, and also to one the hardest professions to be successful at. 

The fact is, it will probably take you years, not months, to start making any real money as a professional composer. No one can, or will for that matter, give you the exact formula for success. It's not like being a doctor, or a lawyer, for example, where you execute a fairly well defined set of curriculae, and if you're smart, and good, you get a job. Many people in our field are extremely talented, and still struggle to find their next gig. 

For now, I would play music library roulette and start trying to get into as many of them as possible. You will, if your music is good, make at least some money, but probably not a lot at first. It's not glamorous work, in fact it is pretty much soul-sucking, but if the music is flowing as you said, and you're good at keeping self-imposed deadlines, it just might work for you.

I you want to be a composer's assistant or a music editor, that's LA work, at least the bulk of it is. You better know pro tools inside and out if you want to work as a music editor. Don't go moving there unless you are sure you want to score film or Tv, or produce bands. LA is a den of iniquity. Good luck.


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## RiffWraith (Jun 9, 2014)

Simplesly @ Tue Jun 10 said:


> ....it will probably take you years, not months, to start making any real money as a professional composer.



It WILL take years. Many of them. 

And I agree that there is no formula. Nobody can say, "do it this way". The one piece of advice I can give you is there is no such thing as too much networking.

Good luck.


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## G.E. (Jun 9, 2014)

I can't tell you how to find work but I can tell you how to make sure you DON'T.And that's by sending hundreds of emails to people you don't know,asking them to hire you. :D
Not very helpful,I know.Sorry.


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## The Darris (Jun 9, 2014)

Supply and demand, there is a reason a lot of composers have gotten into sample developing. Regardless, you have to sell yourself as a product. This takes marketing. What do you want to write for? Film/TV? Go to film festivals, parties, take part in competitions. The more contacts you make, the more likely your name will get passed around the industry. I haven't even started my music schooling yet (2 years from completion) and I have already met and worked for a couple film makers who are getting started themselves. This industry relies on relationships and the will to be flexible. 

Are you wanting to get into concert writing? You need to meet directors of orchestra big and small. Again, I had the opportunity to arrange a piece of my music for a youth orchestra. Though they were extremely young and didn't play my piece as good as my mock-up, it was still a good experience for me as I am starting out. I was able to meet not only some of the best musicians in the bay area but having the ability to get feedback from them as well as making them contacts is hugely crucial to getting work in the concert realm.

Again, you hear people say that "it's who you know." Well, it is but it is more than that. You need to put yourself out there and show the 'who's' what you are capable of and make the attempt to getting your name out there. 

Again, I am not a successful composer yet, but I am on the path that takes years to complete (completion, in my opinion, is when you retire.) Good luck!!

Cheers,

Chris


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## clarkus (Jun 9, 2014)

Without bragging - or intending to - I can tell you that I HAVE had some success as a composer. It's not easier now then ever, in fact it's tougher, but I can tell you what I have always done continues to work, which is to be totally pro-active. Once people heard my music (audiences, critics, whoever) they usually responded positively & that's probably a must ... another way to say you need to be able to write music quite well, whatever kind of music it is. But if you do (I'll take that as a given), look at the sort of gigs you think you might realistically achieve with a slender resume ( a local dance company? An independent film-maker who happens to live in your city & is not yet famous; a chorus; a community orchestra, a local thtr. company that needs incidental music for a play, etc) Give these folks a concise introduction to your work. Ask if they'd meet with you. Have something to propose that is so attractive they'd be foolish to say no. Be charming. 

Then there's music licensing. That's a big, wide topic & I bet someone else here will take a swing at it & do a better job, as I am just starting down that road myself. 

You really, really should not be getting discouraged. It's a bad idea in every way. It sounds like you are young. This is when you should be swinging at the bleachers! If you keep at it you will get a break, and that will help you get more.


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## gsilbers (Jun 9, 2014)

rickymackie @ Mon Jun 09 said:


> Does anyone know of anything around the Seattle, Washington area?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> ...



go north...
vancouver


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## rgames (Jun 9, 2014)

I'd say get in to library music. It'll keep you writing and you probably can make $5k - $10k per year as a side gig while you're pursuing other opportunities, so it's a good place to start. That'll at least cover the costs of maintaining your studio (computers, software, some rent, etc.) while you're building your network, doing assistant gigs, teaching, day job, etc.

Making real money is, of course, all about networking, just as it is in any business.

Also, your school should offer some type of placement/connection service, so check with them.

Good luck,

rgames


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## The Darris (Jun 9, 2014)

rgames @ Mon Jun 09 said:


> I'd say get in to library music. It'll keep you writing and you probably can make $5k - $10k per year as a side gig while you're pursuing other opportunities, so it's a good place to start. That'll at least cover the costs of maintaining your studio (computers, software, some rent, etc.) while you're building your network, doing assistant gigs, teaching, day job, etc.
> 
> Making real money is, of course, all about networking, just as it is in any business.
> 
> ...



If you can name a library that is hiring than sure, this is a good idea. The fact is that Music Libraries are so full of music that it is a lot harder to get into than actually get work doing other stuff. Just my opinions though.


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## rgames (Jun 9, 2014)

The Darris @ Mon Jun 09 said:


> If you can name a library that is hiring than sure, this is a good idea. The fact is that Music Libraries are so full of music that it is a lot harder to get into than actually get work doing other stuff. Just my opinions though.


I'm not talking about the top-tier exclusives that pay up front. I'm talking about libraries that allow anybody to submit music, mostly non-exclusive, so it's a good way to make a little bit of money while writing music because you don't need a deep network. Which, when you're starting out, you probably don't have.

So, as I said above, spend a little time on those kinds of libraries, make a little cash and use it to keep your chops up to snuff while working other, more lucrative avenues. Of course, if you want to do library work, then spend more time on it, but you don't have to, so they offer an opportunity for someone who just wants to do it as a side job. That leaves you free to commit yourself elsewhere and have it as a backup gig. That's precisely why so many people do it...!

rgames


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## Cruciform (Jun 9, 2014)

The Darris @ Tue Jun 10 said:


> If you can name a library that is hiring than sure, this is a good idea. The fact is that Music Libraries are so full of music that it is a lot harder to get into than actually get work doing other stuff.



Most libraries are 'hiring'. Very few are closed shops. And I am talking about reputable exclusives.

Some reasons why a given library may seem 'closed' to a person submitting:

1) their music is not library-friendly 
2) does not fit the library client's needs
3) does not bring anything fresh
4) library has enough of that style
5) library may only accept new composers via introduction
6) music is not perceived as high enough quality
7) ....


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## AR (Jun 9, 2014)

Hi Ricky! I got the 5 year rule for you. 5 years you'll have to do crappy movies (that you won't show your close friends) until you make a movie you'll like. The it'll take 5 more years until you land a first big hit, with earing a good salery. After another 5 years doing music with saleries from 5k- ~20k you'll get THE job you can live of. Of course, you gotta stay in the game, update your stuff, invest in good equipment from time to time and don't give up. As others said it's though so you gotta be rough.


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## Ryan (Jun 10, 2014)

Well. 

Do as I have to do: have a daily job, like 50-60%. Then you still got time to compose, buy stuff, live your life etc. 

When you get enough composing jobs then you should lower your % on the other job. 

This is my working formula!


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## Stephen Rees (Jun 10, 2014)

Hi Ricky,

Why not give library music a go?

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37911


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## Simplesly (Jun 10, 2014)

G.E. @ Mon Jun 09 said:


> I can't tell you how to find work but I can tell you how to make sure you DON'T.And that's by sending hundreds of emails to people you don't know,asking them to hire you. :D
> Not very helpful,I know.Sorry.



I agree with this statement overall, but it can work. I've done it. I have gotten a bit of work from it. The key is to send to people/companies that are not at top of the food chain. They're more likely to notice you. Try small gaming, marketing, and video production companies. Might lead to something. Especially if you live in a place with little going on in these areas.


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## benmode (Jun 10, 2014)

Yeah I think you can get something from random emails too. As long as you focus on the right companies. There are lists of games developers online, showing where in the world they are etc. 

I got an offer for an in-house composer/sound designer job by just emailing a bunch of little companies. Most give the whole "thanks, we don't need anyone at the moment but will keep your details on file just in case!" Which I am pretty sure is just a rejection, but who knows, if you email enough that could turn into something someday. You might be EXACTLY what they want, but they don't know that until you present yourself. 

Just emailing like 5-10 every day can't do any harm can it? Leaves you plenty of time to get your fingers in as many pies as possible. That's my advice - fingers in pies mate. Fingers in pies. Get your fingers in more pies than you can even eat, because a lot of them might not... rise? If they all work out you'll just have to work hard


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## Vin (Jun 10, 2014)

I recommend Emmett Cooke's excellent eBook: http://thebusinessofmusiclicensing.com/


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## chrisr (Jun 10, 2014)

G.E. @ Tue Jun 10 said:


> I can't tell you how to find work but I can tell you how to make sure you DON'T.And that's by sending hundreds of emails to people you don't know,asking them to hire you. :D
> Not very helpful,I know.Sorry.



Actually that's how Debbie Wiseman says she got her first job.


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## DenisT (Jun 10, 2014)

Ryan @ Tue Jun 10 said:


> Well.
> 
> Do as I have to do: have a daily job, like 50-60%. Then you still got time to compose, buy stuff, live your life etc.
> 
> ...



And that's how I do too :wink: 

I work about 8 hours a day as a graphic designer, and when I get home I write music.

Some basics (for everyone, not just the author of this topic) :

- Get a decent website (it's probably the web designer speaking here :wink: )
- Contact and meet new people
- Share your music
- Send emails, introduct yourself, say you're available right now if needed
- Make some professional-looking business cards and give them to A LOT of people, it's an old but efficient trick
- Search for projects everyday (on forums, Twitter, Facebook, Google, ...)
- Never stop writing music
- Never give up!


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## joed (Jun 10, 2014)

Hello,
I see in your post that you're an audio engineer. Have you tried looking for work at local studios?
That can be a great way to meet/network with musicians in your area.


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## clarkus (Jun 11, 2014)

RickyMackie is oddly absent from all this well-meaning discussion as to how he may best forward his career.


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## benmode (Jun 11, 2014)

Let's just assume he went straight out networking.


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## AR (Jun 11, 2014)

Or maybe he got shocked by us prinks ) Truth can be a bitter pain in the ass


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## ed buller (Jun 11, 2014)

already hired....working on his first feature

e


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## Jaap (Jun 11, 2014)

I think he went to study economics and probably is pursuing his first internship at wall street


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## Markus S (Jun 11, 2014)

Jaap @ Wed Jun 11 said:


> I think he went to study economics and probably is pursuing his first internship at wall street



:lol:


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## rickymackie (Jun 11, 2014)

Woah, I had no idea I had so many replies haha. Never got an email for them... 

Lots of great answers on here, thanks a lot! I have been shortly looking into the library business...have only found a few so far; Jingle Punks, Rip Tide, Liquid Cinema. 

I have worked on a short student film, which was cool, but poorly made unfortunately, not terrible but poor...its a student film. Also worked on a student film for my final project in college

I'm glad theres a forum like this, its like a composers buddy system!


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## rickymackie (Jun 11, 2014)

DenisT @ Tue Jun 10 said:


> Ryan @ Tue Jun 10 said:
> 
> 
> > Well.
> ...



Yeah, I'm about to just get a day job. I recently moved here to Seattle from the east with my GF who got a programming job after graduating making $65,000/yr, thank god! So, I at least have her to help out while I dink around finding work. 

-I have a website :D 
-Constantly trying to do that...theres a scoring workshop coming up here in Seattle in August with Hummie Mann, its $1500 though :shock: 
-I try to share often on boards, FB, etc.
-I've been sending emails to directors or companies about a composing gig, but almost never get a reply back...
-Thought about the business card thing... theres a company that makes audio business cards, which I thought would be perfect!
-Do that everyday
-Do that everyday 
-Wont


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## rickymackie (Jun 11, 2014)

AR @ Mon Jun 09 said:


> Hi Ricky! I got the 5 year rule for you. 5 years you'll have to do crappy movies (that you won't show your close friends) until you make a movie you'll like. The it'll take 5 more years until you land a first big hit, with earing a good salery. After another 5 years doing music with saleries from 5k- ~20k you'll get THE job you can live of. Of course, you gotta stay in the game, update your stuff, invest in good equipment from time to time and don't give up. As others said it's though so you gotta be rough.



I totally understand what you're saying. Theres a couple guys out there that I follow; Kyle Robertson, Stefan French... that have been doing composing for about 5 years and have had work but it seems like they are just now kicking up their game.


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## mscottweber (Jun 11, 2014)

It seems like the key to making a living in music is diversity. It's hard find one full time gig that will pay the rent, but if you start composing for some libraries, pick up some private music students, find some paying live music gigs (cover bands can be pretty lucrative, actually) and get some sound engineering work you can probably earn enough to make ends meet.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 11, 2014)

Zig when everyone is zagging. Find a niche that fits your strengths and build on it.


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## rickymackie (Jun 11, 2014)

mscottweber @ Wed Jun 11 said:


> It seems like the key to making a living in music is diversity. It's hard find one full time gig that will pay the rent, but if you start composing for some libraries, pick up some private music students, find some paying live music gigs (cover bands can be pretty lucrative, actually) and get some sound engineering work you can probably earn enough to make ends meet.



Great ideas!

"Well, I could be wrong, but I believe diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era."


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## Harzmusic (Jun 12, 2014)

> -Constantly trying to do that...theres a scoring workshop coming up here in Seattle in August with Hummie Mann, its $1500 though


Just another thought, as you are also a trained audio engineer. Have you considered working in production sound on film sets? I think that might just be a great networking possibility. 
You can know as many composers as you want, if you know no director, producer or music supervisor whatsoever. This is actually my personal "strategy" and I can't tell if it does work out yet: I approach the industry from the other side. I am not studying music for media or anything related, but I am studying audio engineering in a joined course on a media university. Some of my closest friends are starting to make a living in the film industry as producers, directors, DOPs, game developers or vfx artists. And aside from the fact that I really love those people, I am confident that I will also benefit from those connections in the future.

What I am trying to say is: Don't limit your networking activities to the scoring community, get to know your potential clients and the people they work with. I once got a work offer for a feature film because an actor I had worked with on set recommended me to the director. You just never know who will eventually help you.


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## Christof (Jun 12, 2014)

I started composing in 2006, it took me 7 years to score my first full feature movie.But I have to add that it is harder to get jobs here in Austria compared to the USA.


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## DenisT (Jun 12, 2014)

Christof @ Thu Jun 12 said:


> I started composing in 2006, it took me 7 years to score my first full feature movie.But I have to add that it is harder to get jobs here in Austria compared to the USA.



I don't know...there is probably less competition here in Europe. But I'm not sure about that!


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## Jaap (Jun 12, 2014)

The money is everywhere, but just don't focus in the beginning on one thing. I know it's tempting to just want to break in the film or game industry, but that can be hard. In the end it comes down for most composers to have a lot of lines out.

I work already more then a decade as composer and I do a shitload of things.
I have worked for the game industry (in-house and later with my company as outsourcing, not just music, but also sound design, audio programming etc). I do a lot of library music lately, but also to get the loose ends connected financially I write music for wind orchestras, I produce cd's for students, write for marching bands, theater, local bands and festivals etc etc.
In another post Mike Verta said very nicely "We don't get what we deserve in life, we get what we accept".

I have seen a lot of composers who think, "oh but writing for a marching bands is not what I am up to and below my interest". That is ok if you think like that, but don't complain if you can't make it financially on soley composing itself.

If you are interested in library music and you found 3 libraries so far you might want to check out Music Libray Report


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## blizzard (Jun 17, 2014)

I too would recommend this book. Lots of great info in there. I'm just in the middle of going through it...



Vin @ Tue Jun 10 said:


> I recommend Emmett Cooke's excellent eBook: http://thebusinessofmusiclicensing.com/


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 23, 2014)




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## jc5 (Jun 28, 2014)

In the age of online streaming I believe this is becoming the new standard:






Of course you must be careful as there are big name hobos that will undercut you for free:


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