# WARNING! Lost everything by uninstalling a single VST



## VeganPete (Apr 4, 2022)

If anyone else uses anti-malware or antivirus or 3rd-party "deep uninstallers" (which are designed to automatically remove leftover files and fix unused registry entries) - please beware....I just lost EVERYTHING!

I had installed a VST called "One Shot Recorder 2" from KVR website to try. When I ran it, it asked for a purchase serial, I didn't want to purchase it (I thought it would be a free trial), so I uninstalled it instead (using Geek uninstall).

I've just lost every single VST/VSTi and preset on EVERY location on my PC: Program Files, VST Pluginsfolder, DAW install folders, Custom Folders, Downloads folder, Desktop - even my External Passport Drive. :-(

Worse still, I've lost all my presets for Microtonic, Zebra etc - hundreds of thousands of presets I'd bought/made and spent time collecting and organizing.

How did this happen? - when you install the OSR2 VST, it automatically (and silently) scans for all VST locations across the entire system and associates itself with all found plugins. When I uninstalled, the deep unistaller also deleted any associated files - which were all my VST files and folders and presets - thinking they were part of the one-shot-recorder.

Absolutely gutted. Can't believe this has happened. Literally everything has gone - even the built-in plugins which shipped with my DAWs (Mixcraft and Renoise) and unfortunately everything that was on my D: drive (Hundreds of free VST files I'd downloaded from various sites over the years). Hundreds of Plugins and hundreds of thousands of presets are gone.

Worse still, when I try to load my old project files for music I was working on, obvioulsy they wont load/work anymore because of the required vst.dll files are now missing.

I do have backups of everything but I'm going to have to spend a lot of time re-installing and re-registering everything and fiddling about with folder/file locations/directories eyc. There are many things that I will probably not be able to get back at all (such as hardware MIDI mappings and home-made presets) so just wanted to warn you all - Do not use OSR2 (One Shot Recorder2) and this may also occur with other plugins that can automatically scan for VST/VSTi files (such as DAWs themselves) - if so, do not use any deep unistallers or any uninstaller that comes with your antivirus or Anti-malware software which can remove leftover files - or at the very least, if you do use them, please make sure you uncheck the option to remove "leftover/associated/shared/unused" files etc.

I imagine this could also even happen with things like Photoshop or Aftereffects plugins.

FFS. I really can't believe this has happened. Lesson learned. At least my harddrive is less cluttered now.


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## pinki (Apr 4, 2022)

Sorry to hear this. You a have backup so you will be Ok but yeh, that sucks.


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 4, 2022)

Thank you for the warning. I have been using such an uninstaller, but I won't anymore.

I'm very sorry this happened to you.


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## VeganPete (Apr 4, 2022)

Thanks both. I never expected it could happen. I've ditched the uninstaller now too. I suppose now everything's gone it'll give me a chance to sort out the rat's-nest of folders I had and to neaten it all up a bit more. To be honest there were loads of plugins that I would have never used anyway (I got addicted to buying and downloading plugins and presets) so I'll probably just install my favourite ones and be done with it. I spent way too much time downloading and fiddling with new plugins and presets than I did making any projects. I think I'll just keep it minimal from now on.


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## d.healey (Apr 4, 2022)

The data is probably still there, try an undelete program like Recuva from Cc Cleaner. Download it to a USB stick, and run it from there, so you don't overwrite any data with the download.


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## CGR (Apr 4, 2022)

Wow - sorry to hear this. Hope you can get back up & running without too many hassles. Appreciate the warning - I was going to uninstall a trial plugin using CleanMyMac tomorrow, which had scanned my AU/VST/VST3 folders. You may have saved me big time!


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## Lionel Schmitt (Apr 4, 2022)

I'd also try downloading such recovery programs on another machine because the browser writers to the system disk when merely using it, potentially overwriting the data


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## gamma-ut (Apr 4, 2022)

CGR said:


> I was going to uninstall a trial plugin using CleanMyMac tomorrow, which had scanned my AU/VST/VST3 folders. You may have saved me big time!


Generally, on OS X, uninstallers use package receipts provided by the installer (assuming it was built using Apple's package-maker) to work out what to remove rather than file associations so they should be safer. Some tools, such as the uninstaller in Fork Lift, give you a list of stuff before they go and delete it.

That said, I usually do it by hand. I bung VST2 plugins into subfolders to make them easier to find in the DAW, and that's enough to confuse an uninstaller.


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## Dirtgrain (Apr 4, 2022)

I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It's 2022, and technology, while amazing, is still far short of what I imagined when I was taking computer programming classes thirty years ago. This should not happen.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Apr 4, 2022)

Argh that sucks.
Besides from backups, whenever trying out demos/trials or something that will not remain, i never do it on the main machine.
I hate bloating the system up with registry entries, dozens of file leftovers that could be problematic later.


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## VeganPete (Apr 4, 2022)

I tried "recuva" software - it did find 640,000 files over 5 hard drives! The only issue is: it says most (but not all) of them are in a perfect state - but they are recovered to a single folder so I'd have to manually copy and paste the files back to their original directories. Thanks for the help but I think it'll be easier for me to re-install things as and when I need them.


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 4, 2022)

VeganPete said:


> I tried "recuva" software - it did find 640,000 files over 5 hard drives! The only issue is: it says most (but not all) of them are in a perfect state - but they are recovered to a single folder so I'd have to manually copy and paste the files back to their original directories. Thanks for the help but I think it'll be easier for me to re-install things as and when I need them.



Good luck with the process. I had to do it for just one drive (C recently after it died. Once you have enough on their to make music, you can at least take time off from the process to have some fun.


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## VeganPete (Apr 4, 2022)

Thanks everyone. Losing the plugins was not a huge issue for me, it's all part of the fun - just a pass-time. I've got some solid plugins re-installed already and some decent presets - I'm happy enough with the set-up for now. Really only posted in case it can help other people avoid the exact same issue.

Thanks el-bo - I do appreciate the ice-breaker, lol. Really though - please don't feel bad at all, it's been a really crazy story so far but I'm in a happy place almost 99% of the time. Congrats on your veganism. Yeah, I'm openly brazen and I'm sure it can get extremely annoying for other people at times.


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## blaggins (Apr 4, 2022)

This is a good warning, I don't think I would have considered the ramifications of a deep uninstaller on my music project files... Sorry this happened to you @VeganPete, what an absolute cluster f***.


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## Crowe (Apr 4, 2022)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Did you really wrote „mostly“? Im in shock
> and would like to discuss it infinitely.


Yes. I'm against all most forms of extremism.



Snoobydoobydoo said:


> But knowing the exceptions when laughing is not socially compatible can be funny too, especially when ranked Vegans are present.



I generally do not agree with this, if only because everything you say will offend *someone*. I'm offended by certain stuff too, but I generally believe that's my problem, not anyone else's, if only because I'm usually sure there's a viewpoint in which I'm possibly wrong.

I find black humor to be the best humor, because the topics that fall under it generally most need to be made approachable in the first place.

This gif will probably explain my stance on humor better than I ever could.






ANYWAY. Back on topic.

You probably shouldn't use third-party uninstallers. You have very little to no control over what they do. I habitually reformat my drives to keep them clean. Which I guess is pretty extreme, but there you go.


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## Crowe (Apr 4, 2022)

I'm derailing this topic like mad so I'm going to leave it at this.


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## b_elliott (Apr 4, 2022)

Could someone 'splain to the clueless (me) whether the uninstall issue is a Mac only thing involving 3rd party software? 

I am on Win10 so whenever I decide a pgm has to go, I use Windows uninstall from the control panel. Sometimes I simply delete the .vst/.dll from my programs files. 

Question 2: Someone mentioned not putting a trial/demo vst on their main drive. Does placing such on an internal D:/ drive meet the criteria to bypass registry issues down the road if I later delete demo software?
Best, Bill


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## Crowe (Apr 4, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> I am on Win10 so whenever I decide a pgm has to go, I use Windows uninstall from the control panel. Sometimes I simply delete the .vst/.dll from my programs files.
> 
> Question 2: Someone mentioned not putting a trial/demo vst on their main drive. Does placing such on an internal D:/ drive meet the criteria to bypass registry issues down the road if I later delete demo software?
> Best, Bill



You should be absolutely fine, the problem occurred because the program's own (un)installer wasn't used, instead a third-party tool was the villain. Removing a plugin through the control panel should never cause what happened here. Deleting loose dlls shouldn't have any impact at all.

Question 2: I have no idea why any of this would matter if you don't use a third-party cleanup tool.


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## marclawsonmusic (Apr 4, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> Could someone 'splain to the clueless (me) whether the uninstall issue is a Mac only thing involving 3rd party software?
> 
> I am on Win10 so whenever I decide a pgm has to go, I use Windows uninstall from the control panel. Sometimes I simply delete the .vst/.dll from my programs files.


It's not Mac-only. In fact, I would argue that incomplete uninstalls are worse on Windows.

Sometimes uninstallers don't fully uninstall everything. You will often find folders, .DLLs, C++ runtimes (that you no longer need), registry entries and other garbage from old programs on your computer.

So a 'deep uninstaller' is supposed to get rid of _everything _- leaving no trace it ever existed on your computer. But it all depends on who wrote that uninstaller... and in this case, the 'secret sauce' uninstall-algorithm was flawed and did more harm than good.

Generally speaking, on Windows, using the uninstaller in Programs and Features is best, but also be sure to check 'Apps' (b/c sometimes a Program is also an App, but not every App is a Program - hah!). You might also want to check your Program Files folder for any residual junk. Even then, there might be an extra DLL in Windows\System32 (hard to find), and often there are bogus registry entries and of course junk in your VST folder.

This is why a clean install of Windows is often the only cure for cleaning up old bloat. Mac has got worse over the years with this sort of thing, but it's still a lot easier to find Mac bloat than Windows bloat (IMHO of course).


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## sostenuto (Apr 4, 2022)

marclawsonmusic said:


> It's not Mac-only. In fact, I would argue that incomplete uninstalls are worse on Windows.
> 
> Sometimes uninstallers don't fully uninstall everything. You will often find folders, .DLLs, C++ runtimes (that you no longer need), registry entries and other garbage from old programs on your computer.
> 
> ...


Greatest contribution MS - Windows could provide _ is ability to 'clean' install without massive reinstall of purchased VST, VSTi, VST3, VST3i ___ while still protecting creative sources.  

(3) active Win11 Pro Desktop PC(s) here, and constantly desirous of 'clean' installs ! 
Clones have helped, but continue to perpetuate bloat /embedded issues. 💩


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## Crowe (Apr 4, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Greatest contribution MS - Windows could provide _ is ability to 'clean' install without massive reinstall of purchased VST, VSTi, VST3, VST3i ___ while still protecting creative sources.
> 
> (3) active Win11 Pro Desktop PC(s) here, and constantly desirous of 'clean' installs !



There's a contradiction there though. A clean install while leaving installed items untouched would also leave all the filth behind.

The closest I've come to this is by doing a clean install, configuring all my tools and creating an Image backup of my environment. The next time you reinstall that image, install the tools you've acquired since.

This does mean you accumulate software and are kinda stuck with it. Luckily, most of the simpler vsts don't actually require installation, just the DLL in a folder.


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## sostenuto (Apr 4, 2022)

Crowe said:


> There's a contradiction there though. A clean install while leaving installed items untouched would also leave all the filth behind.
> 
> The closest I've come to this is by doing a clean install, configuring all my tools and creating an Image backup of my environment. The next time you reinstall that image, install the tools you've acquired since.
> 
> This does mean you accumulate software and are kinda stuck with it. Luckily, most of the simpler vsts don't actually require installation, just the DLL in a folder.


Hasten to admit notable ignorance with this topic.
Now in very uncomfortable position with all Desktop PC(s) on Win11 Pro _ though they do not qualify.
Insider Preview accomplished this _ with my complicity _ and only way out is Win10 Pro clean install on all systems. Finally off Insider Preview tho !! 🙏🏻
Never confident what can be moved from 'properly' from c:\ . Likely much which would help.

All running acceptably now, so tough to bite the bullet ! Seems each Win Update, and others _ Kontakt, Native Access, Reaper, xxx, and system boots /runs slower.

OK _ enuf with grumbles !


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## vitocorleone123 (Apr 4, 2022)

Windows accumulates file plaque because of an open system and bad/lazy developers.

I never use a deep uninstaller (sucks that things were lost - glad you have backups, though it shouldn't take too long to restore from an image if you have it local). I sometimes just manually clean out some of the hidden folders like AppData, and do sometimes, after an image backup and a backup of the registry, use the Wise Registry Cleaner (I use the Wise Disk Cleaner regularly without doing any special backups) to clean that out, as well.

The less you install, the less file plaque builds up. If you just do a clean install of Windows and stare at it without touching anything it generally works really efficiently and has no issues 

(I've been using Windows since v3.1)


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## Jdiggity1 (Apr 4, 2022)

Since more than half the posts in this thread were about being Vegan, I've moved those posts into their own thread in the "Off-topics - General Musings" sub-forum.


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## dzilizzi (Apr 5, 2022)

After you put everything back, you may want to make a system image incase something like this happens again.


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## VeganPete (Apr 5, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> After you put everything back, you may want to make a system image incase something like this happens again.


That's a great idea. I'll do that and keep it on a separate harddrive. Much quicker than re-installing things individually. Thanks.


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## TonalDynamics (Apr 6, 2022)

VeganPete said:


> If anyone else uses anti-malware or antivirus or 3rd-party "deep uninstallers" (which are designed to automatically remove leftover files and fix unused registry entries) - please beware....I just lost EVERYTHING!
> 
> I had installed a VST called "One Shot Recorder 2" from KVR website to try. When I ran it, it asked for a purchase serial, I didn't want to purchase it (I thought it would be a free trial), so I uninstalled it instead (using Geek uninstall).
> 
> ...


Unbelievably sympathetic to you OP, I experienced a much lighter version of this back years ago when one of my HDDs that I thought I had backed up, died, and in fact I did not have a copy of the files.

But let this be a reminder to all in this thread, this is why you *image* your entire system drive periodically, ESPECIALLY your VST plugin+Data folders - it is _not_ enough to simply copy folders of stuff you want to keep anymore, being as thoroughly entrenched in the digital age as we are in '22.

Imagine if Mozart could have lost half his entire repertoire from a bad system update corrupting his files, or EM radiation scrambling his hard drives... the risks we take are entirely too much to bear, without a fail-proof backup mechanism in place.

Not making regular drive images these days is the professional version of climbing without a rope, and I'm no Alex Honnold.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and make a FULL image of that puppy (system drive, with image validation capabilities - that's important), and just as important but less often, any 'data' folders that are not on the OS partition with presets etc.

My personal software of choice is something called Acronis True Image, which has quite literally saved my ass multiple times in the last decade.

Restoring a full-system image after a catastrophic data loss/system failure is also one of the best feelings in the world... pure unadulterated relief when everything is working exactly as it was before the incident.

Hope you get it all sorted mate!


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## VeganPete (Apr 6, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> Unbelievably sympathetic to you OP, I experienced a much lighter version of this back years ago when one of my HDDs that I thought I had backed up, died, and in fact I did not have a copy of the files.
> 
> But let this be a reminder to all in this thread, this is why you *image* your entire system drive periodically, ESPECIALLY your VST plugin+Data folders - it is _not_ enough to simply copy folders of stuff you want to keep anymore, being as thoroughly entrenched in the digital age as we are in '22.
> 
> ...


*Thanks!* Yes, I'll grab hold of Acronis and make an image once it's all back how I want it. Definitely a pain in the @$$ - fortunately it's just a hobby for me so it's not the major loss it could have been if I was a professional. Definitely will start making full images with periodic updates.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Apr 6, 2022)

I got some older versions of Acronis and O&O which may be upgradable for cheaper. If somebody thinks in getting it.


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## dzilizzi (Apr 6, 2022)

You don't need Acronis. Windows has the option to make one. It works well and is easy to do. Finding it is a little harder, since it is hidden under a subsection of the backups tab.


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## TonalDynamics (Apr 6, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> You don't need Acronis. Windows has the option to make one. It works well and is easy to do. Finding it is a little harder, since it is hidden under a subsection of the backups tab.


Acronis has great image validation (without which defeats the point of imaging imo), and a really neat option for scheduled (backup while you sleep!) operations with differential and incremental techniques:

You make a full backup of the entire drive image first, then the incremental technique will first make a differential backup (everything that has changed since last full backup), followed by incremental backups (only what has changed since the last incremental/differential version) for each subsequent operation - smaller file footprint, but you need each one of them to perform a full restoration.

The differential technique just goes ahead and makes a backup of what's changed since the last _full_ image for every single operation - slightly 'chunkier' files than the incremental technique, but you only need the full image + a single diff. to restore the drive (this is the technique I favor).

All this allows you to make backups in small chunks without imaging the entire drive over and over, works a treat.

If the Windows feature has all this then I'm sure it works well (W10/11?), but these features are real game-changers for me personally


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## sostenuto (Apr 6, 2022)

TonalDynamics said:


> Acronis has great image validation (without which defeats the point of imaging imo), and a really neat option for scheduled (backup while you sleep!) operations with differential and incremental techniques:
> 
> You make a full backup of the entire drive image first, then the incremental technique will first make a differential backup (everything that has changed since last full backup), followed by incremental backups (only what has changed since the last incremental/differential version) for each subsequent operation.
> 
> ...


THX for this ! Have had Acronis long time, but never explored carefully. Appreciate 'differential' detail and will review.


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## TonalDynamics (Apr 6, 2022)

Crowe said:


> There's a contradiction there though. A clean install while leaving installed items untouched would also leave all the filth behind.
> 
> The closest I've come to this is by doing a clean install, configuring all my tools and creating an Image backup of my environment. The next time you reinstall that image, install the tools you've acquired since.
> 
> This does mean you accumulate software and are kinda stuck with it. Luckily, most of the simpler vsts don't actually require installation, just the DLL in a folder.


I did a clean install of W10 LTSC (less bloated version used by hospitals, malls etc., still fully functional but without the Store app) in late '19 since developers were starting to leave W7 behind and I had been putting the upgrade off.

To this day I have made _absolutely_ certain to manually virustotal _every_ program I've ever installed onto this build - she's still running like a champ and I've had zero boot-up/performance slowdowns or crashing issues.

Before that, every time I would get a new machine/OS SSD it would be based on a W7 system image that was about 8 years old... had some reoccuring problems with load times, bugs, crashes, driver issues... was a big yikes - admittedly W10 is just a more stable OS than W7 was, but I wasn't being particularly responsible with keeping it clutter-free either.

I've tried to learn my lessons well since then and am hoping this drive image will keep me from having to reinstall windows for at least another five years or so.

Long-term stability issues is honestly the main reason most creative pros use a MAC, and it's probably the best argument to use one, but I'm just spoiled by the customization afforded by windows and so probably won't 'change teams' anytime soon


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## TonalDynamics (Apr 6, 2022)

VeganPete said:


> *Thanks!* Yes, I'll grab hold of Acronis and make an image once it's all back how I want it. Definitely a pain in the @$$ - fortunately it's just a hobby for me so it's not the major loss it could have been if I was a professional. Definitely will start making full images with periodic updates.


And in addition to the above one more thing I can think of, I DO also use a deep uninstaller tool as well to remove programs I don't want as well as the registry junk.

The one I use is called Revo Uninstaller Pro, but it allows you to manually review each individual file and folder that is being deleted both from the file system and the registry - it will highlight all items in bold that are marked for deletion within the folder/registry structure, so that you can see for yourself and alter what is being deleted at the granular level.

Might be worth checking into for some.


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