# Spitfire & the Hollywood (Zimmer) spiccs test



## Rv5 (Jul 12, 2013)

Hi all

I've got a bit of a thing for Spitfire Audio at the moment - their products are just incredible sounding. Had a bit of time on my hands and what with the Zimmer percussion library coming up as well as being a fan of Daniel James' videos (this is from one he did on the Zimmer spics using LASS and Symphobia but I can't seem to find the video anymore) put this together as I've never really heard this done with Spitfire stuff. (Please drop links if I'm missing something!)

Just a remake of Daniel James' track using only Albion I, II and III. Although the free octaves from the violins and cellos made their way in there. A final instance of Spaces reverb was added. Various EQing and light final compression.

The time machine patches are really useful here, and being able to just dial in the sound of air-lyndhurst is something pretty special. It was also just an excuse to play around the libraries too, some of the synth stuff in Albion III is just pure awesome.

Might do a version using Hollywood Strings just to see what comes out.


https://soundcloud.com/rv5/spitfire-zimmer-spicc-test


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## marcotronic (Jul 12, 2013)

Wow! This sounds great! Exactly my taste! 

Marco


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## will_m (Jul 12, 2013)

Sounds great, is that using the ostinatum tool thing in Spitfire? I like the synth stuff supporting it underneath too. I'm thinking of getting Iceni to blend with LASS and Symphobia.


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## marcotronic (Jul 12, 2013)

I would be really grateful for a list of patches you used in this piece!

thanks
Marco


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## paulmatthew (Jul 12, 2013)

Sounds great . It's like a builder toward a climactic piece in a film or game just before a battle or something major. Well done.


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## stillcd (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah I remember when Daniel James did the spicc test a while back. You did a good job recreating the cue. It sounds great with spitfire! I would be interested in hearing a Hollywood Strings version if your still thinking about doing that as well.


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## Dean (Jul 12, 2013)

Hans asked Dj to remove the vid,(basically it was very detailed tutorial on how to rip of the Dark Knight.),..this led to a very lengthy thread here involving the HZ ostinato sound where Hans chimed in many times,do a search and check it out.

Might be better to keep how you did it to yourself and post something original but thats your call. D


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## Daniel James (Jul 12, 2013)

Dean @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> Hans asked Dj to remove the vid



No he didn't lol it my my decision. 

Nice recreation RV5! Sounds pretty nice with Spitfire! _-) 

-DJ


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## Christof (Jul 12, 2013)

In my opinion the diminuendo and crescendo in the strings sounds like moving the volume knob up and down, but overall cool work...


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## Dean (Jul 12, 2013)

Daniel James @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> Dean @ Fri Jul 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Hans asked Dj to remove the vid
> ...



Sorry Daniel,my bad. D


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## Daniel James (Jul 12, 2013)

Dean @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> Daniel James @ Fri Jul 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Dean @ Fri Jul 12 said:
> ...



haha thats ok mate, was just a 'for the record' moment xD

-DJ


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## E.Frusi (Jul 12, 2013)

...it would be really great have a look DJ tutorial again, for new users, that didn't had the chance to see it, any chance to get it? 

thanks sir...

Efrusi


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## mark812 (Jul 12, 2013)

Regardless of 16th note spiccato and that jazz, the sound you got from Albion strings is really good. Care to share eq settings and other processing techniques that you used?


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## valexnerfarious (Jul 12, 2013)

mark812 @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> Regardless of 16th note spiccato and that jazz, the sound you got from Albion strings is really good. Care to share eq settings and other processing techniques that you used?


YES..please share that


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## MarkS_Comp (Jul 12, 2013)

I'd be really interested to see the MIDI files, along with what patches they were routed to. Please? :D


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## oxo (Jul 13, 2013)

that was years ago my version with the good old EWQLSO gold:

https://app.box.com/shared/mquvgcjres


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## Rv5 (Jul 13, 2013)

will_m @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> Sounds great, is that using the ostinatum tool thing in Spitfire? I like the synth stuff supporting it underneath too. I'm thinking of getting Iceni to blend with LASS and Symphobia.



Thanks  I didn't end up using the ostinatum tool, but I did use the ostinatum spiccs patch.



marcotronic @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> I would be really grateful for a list of patches you used in this piece!
> 
> thanks
> Marco



Cheers Marco! I'll do a little list below.



paulmatthew @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> Sounds great . It's like a builder toward a climactic piece in a film or game just before a battle or something major. Well done.



This is a piece Daniel James did a while ago to demonstrate the whole technique - I just did a reversion! He's good at that stuff!



stillcd @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> Yeah I remember when Daniel James did the spicc test a while back. You did a good job recreating the cue. It sounds great with spitfire! I would be interested in hearing a Hollywood Strings version if your still thinking about doing that as well.



I think I will, would be interesting to see how the sound and feel compare. 



Dean @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> Hans asked Dj to remove the vid,(basically it was very detailed tutorial on how to rip of the Dark Knight.),..this led to a very lengthy thread here involving the HZ ostinato sound where Hans chimed in many times,do a search and check it out.
> 
> Might be better to keep how you did it to yourself and post something original but thats your call. D



After reading through that original post - basically I recreated the track he decided to pull the tutorial for so it would be wrong for me to do one for sure! Cheers for the heads up.



Daniel James @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> Nice recreation RV5! Sounds pretty nice with Spitfire! _-)
> 
> -DJ



Thanks Daniel! Was good fun trying to recreate that sound. The Spitfire sound is a good'n for sure!



Christof @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> In my opinion the diminuendo and crescendo in the strings sounds like moving the volume knob up and down, but overall cool work...



Ah this is a shame!! The only volume automation is in the synth lines, everything else is velocity only. The sound to my ears is a wonderfully natural one because of this.



mark812 @ Sat Jul 13 said:


> Regardless of 16th note spiccato and that jazz, the sound you got from Albion strings is really good. Care to share eq settings and other processing techniques that you used?



Thanks. Sure - I'll post a little below about a few EQ choices etc



MarkS_Comp @ Sat Jul 13 said:


> I'd be really interested to see the MIDI files, along with what patches they were routed to. Please? :D



I think I'll work on an original composition at some point, then I'd be ok sharing that kind of thing if you're still interested!

-------------

So a few notes on how I mixed the track:

The sound of these libraries is already amazing for staters. Amazing players in an amazing room with amazing mics recorded through amazing pre-amps into an amazing desk and an amazing tape machine over-seen by very talented people in their respective field. All quite amazing.

Please keep in mind I'm no mix engineer!! I also didn't drastically change the sound of the samples - they're just good enough as they are. I also like quite a blurry over-saturated sound which isn't to everyone's taste. And of course what works for this won't work for something else, it's personal and you could achieve the same sound in other ways!

The patch list is as follows:

*Albion I*
Strings Lo - Ostinatum Spic
Strings Hi - Ostinatum Spic
Strings Hi - Short
Brass Hi - Legato
Brass Mid - Legato
Easter Island Hits I
Percussion Hits

*Albion II // Loegria*
Strings Lo - Tremelo
Strings Lo - Short
Strings Hi - Short
Strings Lo - Short (2nd instance)
Stackbutts Hi - Legato
Stackbutts Lo - Legato
Easter Island Hits II
End of Days
Toms - Hi
Toms - Mid
Fenton Grubby Reversals 2

*Albion III // Iceni*
String Lo (Cellos) - Short
String Lo - Legato
Brass Lo - Legato
Sheet Organ/Wobble Fingers/Tape Grit 1 layered together and fed a 16th side chain from Albion I Piano shorts time machine patch used to adjust to create the desired pulse. Reapers standard compressor used for the side chain.
Bottom 8ve Angry Inlaw/Journey layered together

*Sable Free Octave*
Cello - Short
Violins - Short

*All mics* were loaded for each patch and mixed to flavour
There was no volume automation (except synths), just velocity change
Time machine patches were used for all strings expect Iceni
Some mic positions I loaded separately and adjusted the length of the short note different to that of the other mics for the same part and patch using the time machine feature

I use UAD plug-ins mostly. I had the Neve 88rs channel strip on all channels using that for low cut and a bit of shaping of the string sounds. All the eqing was just to get a blend sound really. In any other context of course it would be very different. So say I cut the Loegria strings at 1k and 200hz with a top end boost this would be because it would sit nicely with what it was doubling. On its own it isn't a great sound!

The brass had the most extreme eq curves - they were an afterthought and just wanted to sit them in somewhere.

The percussion I used the UAD Cambridge eq to broad cut a lot of mid-range and the Neve 88rs eq to boost the lows and highs. Also did some parallel compression on all percussion using the compressor in the 88rs channel strip. Not my usual choice for drum busses at all, I prefer the snap of the SSL but it worked ok for this.

The master channel is where the most shaping took place.
QL Spaces - S. Cal Hall Epic Final Reverb TS RR 3.7s with the wet signal dialed down a little, low and high cut on the reverb
UAD Pultec-Pro to add a bit of colour
UAD Neve 33609 Comp (I love this comp on the master bus)
UAD Ampex ATR-102
UAD Harrison 32c - this is one of my favourite sounding eqs. Just mainly to sculpt a bit more high end in
FabFilter Pro-L limiter, just for a few of the peaks

But the sound of the libraries is already so good there isn't a lot needed to be done.

Hope that helps those of you asking!


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## marcotronic (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks a lot for this detailed explanation!

Marco


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## Saxer (Jul 14, 2013)

marcotronic @ 14.7.2013 said:


> Thanks a lot for this detailed explanation!
> 
> Marco


+1


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## DynamicK (Jul 14, 2013)

marcotronic @ Sun Jul 14 said:


> Thanks a lot for this detailed explanation!Marco


Yes many thanks for that. Sounds great.


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## mgtube (Jul 14, 2013)

It all sounds amazing to me, but I'd like to know what you used for the percussion?


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## GrimeBrett (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow! Really great work.

This is just further proof that I need Albion! :D


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## Christof (Jul 15, 2013)

> Ah this is a shame!! The only volume automation is in the synth lines, everything else is velocity only. The sound to my ears is a wonderfully natural one because of this.


Oh yes what a shame :wink: 
When you post something here you also have to expect some criticism, not only praise and demands for midi files and patch names :wink: 

In my opinion the diminuendo goes too far and that doesn't sound natural, real string players still have enough substance and energy, even in pianissimo.
In your version the strings almost disappear, and this gives me the impression of moving the volume knob.

Every library I know has problems with velocity crossfades when it comes to short and fast notes in my opinion.
Maybe you could try to give the strings a bit more velocity in the pp and add some volume curves instead?
Just a thought, not sure if it is useful.

Anyway, this is a cool mockup!

Christof


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jul 15, 2013)

I believe, though I cannot be sure, this effect was achieved in the Batman films as well.

The strings are masterfully automated even on a volume level. It sounds like that to my ears. 

Its not all a simple natural recording. Of course, I could be wrong. But, most of the Batman score is not supposed to be all natural and strings fade in and out all the time. There is some crafty automation going on between synths and strings all the time.

It could be that the OP has relied on the source recording of the score as an inspiration - not a problem at all of course!


Sounds quite good. Well done!


Tanuj.


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## Christof (Jul 15, 2013)

Different people, different ears!
That's what keeps this forum alive!


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jul 15, 2013)

Indeed Christof and I agree with you 100% that a real string section will not perform it quite like that. 

But if the intention was to achieve a similar effect used in the Batman films, then I do hear similarities in execution.


Tanuj.


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## Rv5 (Jul 15, 2013)

Cheers guys no worries, hope it helps!



mgtube @ Mon Jul 15 said:


> It all sounds amazing to me, but I'd like to know what you used for the percussion?



As per the list above the percussion uses patches from Albions I & II.



GrimeBrett @ Mon Jul 15 said:


> Wow! Really great work.
> 
> This is just further proof that I need Albion! :D



Thanks! Yeah I'd highly recommend the Albion series.



Christof @ Mon Jul 15 said:


> > Ah this is a shame!! The only volume automation is in the synth lines, everything else is velocity only. The sound to my ears is a wonderfully natural one because of this.
> 
> 
> Oh yes what a shame :wink:
> ...



Hi Christof! Yes of course - criticism is expected and appreciated (constructive stuff anyway hehe !! I've started having a go with Hollywood Strings but it's too sunny right now to get it finished any time soon! And the velocity levels seem to jump a lot more than most other libraries so the automation would have to be layered in with velocity - I would still try to go for the same sound though with the strings disappearing - it works for this stuff in my opinion.

It's about getting that balance of realism and effect I suppose! There are no rules in this track regarding traditional orchestration techniques. However I'm working on a John Williams mock-up to test a new template, very different thing!



vibrato @ Mon Jul 15 said:


> I believe, though I cannot be sure, this effect was achieved in the Batman films as well.
> 
> The strings are masterfully automated even on a volume level. It sounds like that to my ears.
> 
> ...



Thanks Tanuj - yes I think it is more in keeping with that specific sound and vibe!


Will see about getting that Hollywood Strings version done over the next week or so


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## soundtraktechnoid (Jul 18, 2013)

Sounds really good man, but I would go in and do some humanizing. Its very, very quantized at the moment and that is taking away from the humanistic quality that you want to hear from an orchestra. But you are definitely getting a good sound. Also, I agree with Christof that the diminuendo may be going to far down and the crescendo may be going too far up. Its all a matter of personal opinion of course, but maybe try narrowing the dynamic field and see if you like it  but if you like it the way it is, thats what makes music a creative art

However, on another note, I am quite happy that Hollywood seems to finally be shifting away from the Dark Knight spicc thing in many movies and trailers. Hans did it first and best


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## Will Blackburn (Jul 18, 2013)

Sounds nice but I can hear the limiter strangling your mix, would take it off personally. Did you use a choir lib in that?


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## Rv5 (Jul 18, 2013)

soundtraktechnoid @ Thu Jul 18 said:


> Sounds really good man, but I would go in and do some humanizing. Its very, very quantized at the moment and that is taking away from the humanistic quality that you want to hear from an orchestra. But you are definitely getting a good sound. Also, I agree with Christof that the diminuendo may be going to far down and the crescendo may be going too far up. Its all a matter of personal opinion of course, but maybe try narrowing the dynamic field and see if you like it  but if you like it the way it is, thats what makes music a creative art
> 
> However, on another note, I am quite happy that Hollywood seems to finally be shifting away from the Dark Knight spicc thing in many movies and trailers. Hans did it first and best



 I suppose Hollywood isn't necessarily known for originality, especially in recent decades where the amount of sequels, prequels and re-makes out-weighs original releases/writing (not to say that there isn't great stuff still coming out). I suppose Hollywood movie marketing is just that - marketing, no-one wants to get it wrong. A movie does well, take the credit! If it does bad, blame the trailer! Use what works to sell I suppose!

I don't think that is too cynical given sequels only get the go-ahead if they make money. That dictates any platform for creative output it would seem! Business innit. Hans Zimmer said he had to persuade Warner Bros to let them do the soft piano build up thing for the Dark Knight Rises trailer... the movie execs I guess want to use what works and I guess why not.

I'm going to give yours and Christof's suggestions a go at some point!



> Sounds nice but I can hear the limiter strangling your mix, would take it off personally. Did you use a choir lib in that?



Hey, no choir library used, only what is found in Albion I, II & III. Everything used is listed above. The limiter was just used to take care of the peaks - have a look at the waveform on soundcloud. I suppose it might be the saturation you're hearing keeping things 'level' or 'limited' I'm not sure. Suppose it depends what you're listening to it on as well!


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## Dan Mott (Jul 18, 2013)

*Christof - "Every library I know has problems with velocity crossfades when it comes to short and fast notes in my opinion"*


That is indeed very true. 

HS crossfading in short notes are very jumpy. Rather annoying really. I still think that my suggestion would help and that is to not link dynamics to Velocity, but link the dynamics to the modwheel and tweak it so that the layers crossfade nice and smoothly. It would just be a matter of riding the modwheel which if programmed nicely, it would result in much better dynamic crossfading.

Where as Velocity can act as a speed control. The higher the velocity sticks, the faster the samples can play (for faster pieces of music) and the lower, the slower they play (for slower pieces of music), instead of having short loose and short tight patches. This will enable the user to have all the options in one patch as well as better dynamic control/speed control. I seriously think this would be much MUCH better with all string libraries, especially HS. I just wish Nick and Thomas would like that idea too :D


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## Dan Mott (Jul 18, 2013)

Also, to the OP

What part of the movie is that particular piece of music from?

I cannot seem to find a track where it plays that notation. Can I have a link so I can compare?

I swear that it's much slower, or maybe it's just me.


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## Dynamoe (Jul 19, 2013)

Really nice sound, good job!
I did a mockup of Zimmer's Dog chasing cars last year with the spics from LASS that to my ears are more aggresive and in you face than the Albion stuff. You can hear it here:

https://soundcloud.com/dynamoe/like-a-d ... ars-dennis

I did eq the shit out of the spics to get them even more in your face 

=o


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## Dan Mott (Jul 19, 2013)

well I had a go.

https://soundcloud.com/destaana/zimmerish


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## Daniel James (Jul 19, 2013)

...And so it begins again.


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## RasmusFors (Jul 19, 2013)

No offense, but aren't there more fun things to do than trying to replicate Zimmer cues :|


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## soundtraktechnoid (Jul 19, 2013)

Daniel James @ Fri Jul 19 said:


> ...And so it begins again.



Seriously.... I thought we were past it also


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## christianb (Jul 19, 2013)

Like going to youtube and typing 'stairway to heaven cover"
hours and hours of entertainment.
 



christianb


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## Rv5 (Jul 19, 2013)

Dan-Jay @ Fri Jul 19 said:


> Also, to the OP
> 
> What part of the movie is that particular piece of music from?
> 
> ...



Hey dan-Jay, not sure! Just re-made the one Daniel James did and did it a little faster.



Dynamoe @ Fri Jul 19 said:


> Really nice sound, good job!
> I did a mockup of Zimmer's Dog chasing cars last year with the spics from LASS that to my ears are more aggresive and in you face than the Albion stuff. You can hear it here:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/dynamoe/like-a-d ... ars-dennis
> ...



Cool, sounds good!



Dan-Jay @ Fri Jul 19 said:


> well I had a go.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/destaana/zimmerish



Short but sweet 



Daniel James @ Fri Jul 19 said:


> ...And so it begins again.



Woops! :oops: 



RasmusFors @ Fri Jul 19 said:


> No offense, but aren't there more fun things to do than trying to replicate Zimmer cues :|



Yes! I went go-karting the other day, that was way more fun.



christianb @ Fri Jul 19 said:


> Like going to youtube and typing 'stairway to heaven cover"
> hours and hours of entertainment.
> 
> 
> ...



Foo Fighters cover my favourite so far


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## RasmusFors (Jul 19, 2013)

> Yes! I went go-karting the other day, that was way more fun.



Did you see any blue shells ? /\~O (*mario kart reference)


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## Dan Mott (Jul 19, 2013)

Aren't there more fun things to do than going on a forum and telling people that there could potentially be something else more fun to do?

If you must know, gentlemen, I had fun making my little clip. 1am in the morning, had time on my hands. In fact, I actually learned something. Imitation is fun and challenging. 

Love you.

...... o-[][]-o


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## Audio Birdi (Jul 19, 2013)

Listening to that has tempted me even more to make Albion my first sample library! :O.

Re-makes of songs/pieces is something i've been doing since 16. Mainly for coursework within high school and such. I have fun trying to re-figure out all the parts by ear! :D

Here's my short mockup of "I'm not a Hero":
https://soundcloud.com/kabirdi/im-not-a-hero-mockup-wip

had good fun trying to get the synth part sounding right .

Thoughts welcome!


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## Dynamoe (Jul 20, 2013)

Hmm, I remember that I actually had fun doing it...
And I actually learn a lot from doing mockups!!


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## Jem7 (Jul 22, 2013)

That was really good but I don't get why I never find myself to like RR quality of shorts any library than LASS. Albion sounds great but when you layer more stuff, detail tends to get lost and starting to sound more fake to me. But personally I don't tried Albion yet so that was what I'm hearing from demos and other stuff.


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## Gary Eskow (Jul 30, 2013)

Beautiful job!


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## Rv5 (Jul 31, 2013)

Jem7 @ Tue Jul 23 said:


> That was really good but I don't get why I never find myself to like RR quality of shorts any library than LASS. Albion sounds great but when you layer more stuff, detail tends to get lost and starting to sound more fake to me. But personally I don't tried Albion yet so that was what I'm hearing from demos and other stuff.



I think the tech demos are quite important in this regard - so you can see if you can get the sound *you* want from it. Inevitably someones personal taste will flavour the sound of the music they make. A variety of demos demonstrating the different aspects also help of course. 



Dynamoe @ Sat Jul 20 said:


> Hmm, I remember that I actually had fun doing it...
> And I actually learn a lot from doing mockups!!



Yes - I find it good fun - good way to learn and a good way to experiement with sound and composition!



Gary Eskow @ Wed Jul 31 said:


> Beautiful job!



Thank you!


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## korgscrew (Jul 31, 2013)

Heres my shot!

Here come the excuses!

Had a spare hour so not really mixed. Low end is a bit full, hence the cellos dont come through very well! Had some good fun!

Spitfire - Albion 1 & 2 Plus Spitfire solo strings Viola (has a nice percussive spicc) & violin.

Plus the best taikos you can get, which cost $50 from 9 Volt audio!

Enjoy 

https://soundcloud.com/fracturedmedia/i ... immer-test


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