# Piston orchestration!!!



## Leandro Gardini (Mar 25, 2006)

Hi all...have someone hee studied the Piston orchestration???Could you share your homeworks???
I think it would be very valuable with we started something like sharing our experiences here and see whatÂ´s the approach of other orchestration...is it working???Come on , letÂ´s go :wink: !!!


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## Kaatza_Music (Mar 25, 2006)

Hi, Leogardini,

Do you mean Orchestration by Walter Piston? If so, it is a great book. It has been my main orchestration book since I was in college in the early 70s. My copy is now so old it is falling apart but I still refer to it occassionally.

I recently read the Rimsky Kosakov book, Principles of Orchestration. Some good info on orchestral colors and balancing chords with a lot of examples from his work.

When I was in college, I bought dozens of the miniture scores of the classics and listened and followed the score at the same time. 

Leon


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 25, 2006)

Hi Leon , do you have any homework that you could mockup and show us???Since IÂ´m not taking classes this is what IÂ´m looking for with this book!!!

IÂ´ve made a mockup of the diferent arrangement examples shown in page 434 for listening purpose...thereÂ´s no programing in it so , donÂ´t complain how it sounds fake or have noise :smile: ...it sounds terrible I know , but again itÂ´s just for listening to what is writen there: 

http://www.pacificocean.com.br/musicas/Piston434.mp3

Comments please!!!


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 27, 2006)

isnÂ´t it an interesting thread or isnÂ´t anybody able to make any interesting comment about orchestration  ???


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## Ranietz (Mar 27, 2006)

I have the Orchestration book by Piston. I also have the Harmony and Counterpoint books by Piston. 
I got them about a year ago, but since I know very little about the orchestra and orchestration, it was a bit to hard to start with thoose books. I plan to pick them up again later, when I have learned a bit more. :smile: 

I'm now making my way through the Star Wars score. Learning alot from that.

But I'm always willing to learn new things, so maybe I'll have a look at the Piston stuff again... :smile: 

-Ranietz-


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 27, 2006)

Ranietz @ Mon Mar 27 said:


> I have the Orchestration book by Piston. I also have the Harmony and Counterpoint books by Piston.
> I got them about a year ago, but since I know very little about the orchestra and orchestration, it was a bit to hard to start with thoose books. I plan to pick them up again later, when I have learned a bit more. :smile:
> 
> I'm now making my way through the Star Wars score. Learning alot from that.
> ...


Hi Ranietz , I also have the harmony and counterpoint by Piston...theyÂ´re all great stuff...but what is getting so common today is what you are doing now - studing a dificult score instead of learning the technique first...well I know a lot of people here donÂ´t agree with my statement but thereÂ´s some kind of standard way to learn music witch has already been developed during the centuries!!!
I believe that you must be learning a lot with the Star Wars score , but youÂ´l never understand the technique that JW used in order to compose this one , the final result wonÂ´t be a clear orquestration in you mind and youÂ´l be always end up making tests about you future orchestration with your samples witch most of the time you wonÂ´t know what to do with the woodwinds and doubling the size of horns for example!!!
Believe me , itÂ´s much easyer to understand the techniques first , than writing a score and later mocking up it!!!
The exmple shown above is a very simple one , but what Piston wanted to show is how the felling change with each kind of arrangement!!!


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## Ranietz (Mar 27, 2006)

leogardini @ Mon 27 Mar said:


> Hi Ranietz , I also have the harmony and counterpoint by Piston...theyÂ´re all great stuff...but what is getting so common today is what you are doing now - studing a dificult score instead of learning the technique first...well I know a lot of people here donÂ´t agree with my statement but thereÂ´s some kind of standard way to learn music witch has already been developed during the centuries!!!
> I believe that you must be learning a lot with the Star Wars score , but youÂ´l never understand the technique that JW used in order to compose this one , the final result wonÂ´t be a clear orquestration in you mind and youÂ´l be always end up making tests about you future orchestration with your samples witch most of the time you wonÂ´t know what to do with the woodwinds and doubling the size of horns for example!!!
> Believe me , itÂ´s much easyer to understand the techniques first , than writing a score and later mocking up it!!!
> The exmple shown above is a very simple one , but what Piston wanted to show is how the felling change with each kind of arrangement!!!



I agree. Good point. I guess my problem is that I'm to impatient, and it's hard to learn about music on my own. I'm still trying to find the right place to start...

-Ranietz-


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## Doug Wellington (Mar 29, 2006)

Ranietz @ Mon Mar 27 said:


> I guess my problem is that I'm to impatient, and it's hard to learn about music on my own. I'm still trying to find the right place to start...


Me too! I took classes at the local community college, but it was too hard to pick my daughter up from day care, take her home and feed her, then drive all the way back across town for school. I gave up on school and tried to work my way through a bunch of stuff on my own, including books by Piston, Schoenberg, Zarlino, Mann, and even several jazz oriented books I got from Jamey Aebersold. There just never seemed to be a clear path from "here" to "there" though and I often just got sidetracked doing rock, jazz or ambient music, or programming my synths, or soldering together my analog modules. Of course, then my two kids got old enough to play soccer, and my own life was over! :roll:

After a couple year hiatus from music, I started playing in a band with a couple of mates from work. That got me inspired again, so I got online and started looking around. I heard about Peter Alexander's Writing for Strings, so I ordered it. It seemed to have a better plan than what I had previously, but for whatever reason, I just haven't been able to connect with it, probably for reasons not related to the content. Maybe that will change when Peter releases the updates for the course...

Still looking, I kept reading at NSS and the EastWest forum, and then I found VI. Looking around here, I found the EIS course, which so far seems to be the best solution! I ordered it, but of course, I haven't received the books yet - UPS has them about two hours from here, so I hope to get them by the end of the week! :lol: As soon as I get them, I'll let you know what my first impressions are.

Have you seen Gary Garritan's announcement about the Rimsky-Korsakov material he's putting online? Looks interesting! Check out the teasers he's published at NSS...


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## Angel (Mar 29, 2006)

hi leo...
thanks for your multistyle-mockup... I think one can not show the changing mood by changing style better than that.

I'm currently working myself through Adler (can I say it like this?) but will go for Pidgeon, Pistol, whatever afterwards.

Cheers for beers, Angel


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## Ranietz (Mar 29, 2006)

Doug Wellington @ Wed 29 Mar said:


> Still looking, I kept reading at NSS and the EastWest forum, and then I found VI. Looking around here, I found the EIS course, which so far seems to be the best solution! I ordered it, but of course, I haven't received the books yet - UPS has them about two hours from here, so I hope to get them by the end of the week! :lol: As soon as I get them, I'll let you know what my first impressions are.
> 
> Have you seen Gary Garritan's announcement about the Rimsky-Korsakov material he's putting online? Looks interesting! Check out the teasers he's published at NSS...



I'm interested in the EIS course too, but I don't have the money for it right now. :cry: That course is more about composing than orchestration, right? Let me know how it goes. :smile: 

And yes, I have seen the Rimsky-Korsakov thing on NSS. I'll look more carefully into it later. I have the Rimsky-Korsakov book somewhere around, and it would be great to use it with the material Garritan is making.

-Ranietz-


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 30, 2006)

IÂ´ve made two arrangements for the same Piston exercices:the first one is strings plus horns , the second one I added woodwinds a2 , brass a2 and percussion , I also speed up the tempo and change a bit the melody for more movement...


...here http://www.pacificocean.com.br/musicas/Piston1.mp3

ThereÂ´s no programing in them!!!


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 30, 2006)

Doug Wellington @ Wed Mar 29 said:


> Ranietz @ Mon Mar 27 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess my problem is that I'm to impatient, and it's hard to learn about music on my own. I'm still trying to find the right place to start...
> ...


Yes I saw this...I think it was a great idea and this is more or less what IÂ´m trying to do here but the guys here are too busy or too lazy :roll: !!!
GPO even sounded fine with the great Korsakov orchestration!!!


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## Doug Wellington (Mar 30, 2006)

Ranietz @ Wed Mar 29 said:


> I'm interested in the EIS course too, but I don't have the money for it right now. :cry:


Who has money? (Well...any more...!) :lol: Actually, I'm getting started with EIS for less than I'd pay for a class at the University...



> That course is more about composing than orchestration, right?


Got the first volume last night - books 1 and 2. Looks good so far! I'm already thinking about a couple things in a different way. Looking at the last page of this volume, I see that Book IX is Basic Orchestration and book X is Advanced Orchestration. Don't know how long it will take me to get to those books though. I'll let you know...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 31, 2006)

I have the Piston orchestration book. It's very good, just like his harmony book, but excruciatingly boring to read. His approach is very academic.


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## Peter Alexander (Apr 4, 2006)

leogardini @ Mon Apr 03 said:


> The only one that keeps my curiosity and attention is the huge TraitÃ© de LÂ´Orchestration by Keochlin , but considering that itÂ´s available only in France and writen only in old french stile language , I make part of the big majority of musicians that donÂ´t have a access to this great book!!!



Thanks, again, Leandro.


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## Leandro Gardini (Apr 5, 2006)

Wrong quote Peter :mrgreen: !!!


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## KevinKauai (Apr 6, 2006)

> I'm also releasing How Ravel Orchestrated - Volume 1, which also comes with a licensed recording, (not MIDI mock-up) and a newly engraved score and many other features never before done in a study of orchestration.


Peter, that sounds like a _wonderful _release!

I've admired Maurice Ravel's orchestration since I was a tyke and personally consider him on of the "big three" of the first half of the 20th century. When you really understand the combination of instruments and intervals in "Bolero", for example, it's clear that Ravel was on a very different path from his contemporaries -- especially in terms of "creating" virtual instruments from the standard orchestral palette.

Any more details on this release?

 KevinKauai


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