# Which Video Games to Check Out



## JimmyPoppa (Dec 17, 2018)

Hello,

My girlfriend and I are both composers considering video games. Neither of us plays the games so I'm wondering if you have suggestions about which games to check out to give us a good overview.

FYI: We both have strong music/theory/composition/orchestration, etc., background. Both have DAWs with some libraries and working on our mockup skills. We understand that there is a learning curve for the industry.

Here, I'm just asking for suggestions specifically about which games to check out.

Thanks.

Be Well,

Jimmy


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## marin (Dec 17, 2018)

A few staples that come to mind if you have no idea where to start are:

Fantasy - Skyrim
Sci-Fi - Mass Effect 2
FPS - Overwatch

One of my favorite video game scores is from a platformer called Hollow Knight, you should check it out.

You can't fully appreciate music for games without playing the games and listening to the underlying code or blueprints that drive the musical systems -- when certain layers crossfade in, what game states trigger what tracks, etc.

EDIT: I'm also playing Fallout 76 which, despite the reviews of the game, has some really nice ambient music. Worth checking out


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## paularthur (Dec 17, 2018)

Final Fantasy 7, Final Fantasy 15, The Elder Scrolls (), The Witcher, Monument Valley. Honorable mention Doom.


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## Confuzzly (Dec 17, 2018)

Ori and the Blind Forest, Abzu, and Journey are my personal top three.


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## Guffy (Dec 17, 2018)

Ori and the blind forest, The Witcher 3, Skyrim, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars and Assassins Creed IV are a few i like


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## MartinH. (Dec 17, 2018)

JimmyPoppa said:


> Neither of us plays the games so I'm wondering if you have suggestions about which games to check out to give us a good overview.





JimmyPoppa said:


> Here, I'm just asking for suggestions specifically about which games to check out.



How do you intend to "check them out", do you want to play them yourself or watch a "let's play" of them on youtube? E.g. I think the Dark Souls series is great and has music worth checking out, but if you two aren't experienced gamers you frankly have no chance of beating any of the games in the series. They are pretty hard. And the music only plays during boss fights where you'll have trouble focusing on the music and it's also not very dynamically adapting to what's happening.

What I would recommend to you two is starting with watching GDC talks about adaptive music approaches in games and maybe some tutorials for integrating adaptive music into games with FMOD and WWise. This talk was very interesting to me, lots about sound design:



If you don't mind the gore, it's worth playing the game too, to get an idea of how it all "feels" when playing it.


Generally the videos by this guy are also very good and interesting:




And Winifred Phillips has written a book about game music:


But I haven't read it. (There's supposed to be an amazon embed above this, but it doesn't show for me. The title is in the video too, if you want to you'll find it.)


Be sure to check out the youtube channel of @Jason Graves too:
https://www.youtube.com/user/jgmusic408/videos

He has composed music for great games like Dead Space or the 2013 Tomb Raider reboot. I think both are worth playing (if you don't mind them being a bit scary and violent at times).




marin said:


> Fallout 76


Going by the public reception of the game I'd say "just don't". Fallout 4 seems to be a much better game and likely has the exact same implementation of dynamic music systems.


Deus Ex Human Revolution and Deus Ex Mankind Divided are two great games that I can really recommend and have great adaptive soundtracks too.


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## JimmyPoppa (Dec 17, 2018)

Wow! Great info! Thanks to all. We've got a lot of good material to start looking into. Happy Holidays. J


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## garyhiebner (Dec 17, 2018)

+1 for Journey and Abzu. Austin Wintory is a great Composer. Monument valley is also awesome. One of my favourite platforms games is Fez, and it also has an awesome soundtrack by the composer Rich Vreeland (Disasterpiece).


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## merlinhimself (Dec 17, 2018)

marin said:


> A few staples that come to mind if you have no idea where to start are:
> 
> Fantasy - Skyrim
> Sci-Fi - Mass Effect 2



The Mass Effect trilogy is by far one of the most beautifully written games both in music and story


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 17, 2018)

Based on your website,

I would check out Super Mario Odyssey & Cup Head


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## JimmyPoppa (Dec 17, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Based on your website,
> 
> I would check out Super Mario Odyssey & Cup Head



Thanks much. Never heard of Cuphead but seems right in my wheelhouse. I'll look for more like that. J


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 17, 2018)

JimmyPoppa said:


> Thanks much. Never heard of Cuphead but seems right in my wheelhouse. I'll look for more like that. J


The Mario games feature lots of swing (or varieties of) so definitely dig around their OSTs


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## DivingInSpace (Dec 17, 2018)

Guffy said:


> Ori and the blind forest, The Witcher 3, Skyrim, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars and Assassins Creed IV are a few i like


Was going to suggest Ori and the blind forest too. I never played the game as i am on mac, but i love the soundtrack! Actually got thrown a couple of tracks from the game as a reference from a client recently, and i am still a little afraid haha.


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## Chr!s (Dec 17, 2018)

JimmyPoppa said:


> Hello,
> 
> My girlfriend and I are both composers considering video games. Neither of us plays the games so I'm wondering if you have suggestions about which games to check out to give us a good overview.
> 
> ...



I think this depends entirely on what kind of music you want to write. Your website is a lot of great Las Vegas type music but I get the sense from your post you do more than that.

The good thing about games is that I think they use a lot wider range of genres than film, at least right now. That being said, the kind of music you write on your website is probably among the least common in games. If that's what you're after, games like Bayonetta, Mario Odyessy, Marvel Vs Capcom 2, Cuphead, and Sonic The Hedgehog are similar.



But there's also many great tunes from the chiptune age, and a lot of indie games go for this kinda thing.



Guilty Gear and Castlevania have some of the best rock and metal music



The Witcher took many slavic folk songs from the middle ages and recorded them for battle themes and taverns and stuff.



Street Fighter blends ethnic music from the region a given character is from with modern music. The music changes to a different variation each round.



Lotta good stuff in video games. Just about any genre has a place in them.


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## JimmyPoppa (Dec 17, 2018)

Chris,

Yes, we write in several styles. I actually didn't think about the fact that the link to that web page was in my signature. That demo was created specifically for Vegas style arrangements to show producers and stage acts. However, I didn't even know that there were games that use that sort of thing so, I've already learned something from you and the other posters. 

From some of the suggestions, a quick look will show that's not our thing (techno, rock, electronic, mega hybrid trailer, etc.) Still, for the moment, we are new to games so, all info is valuable, even if it tells us what doesn't fit our skills.

So, thanks everyone.

Be Well,

Jimmy


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## MA-Simon (Dec 17, 2018)

The Last Guardian!


I frequently open up a patch from the Cinematic Studios Series (Solo, Strings, Piano etc.) and play along with the soundtrack. So fantastic.


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## Desire Inspires (Dec 17, 2018)

I hate to say it but many apps need serious music.

I don’t think the developers even think about music or have a budget for it until the very end of the project. But so many apps lack good music. 

All of this technology and there’s no true connection to the music to provide a true entertainment experience.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 17, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> The Mario games feature lots of swing (or varieties of) so definitely dig around their OSTs


Oh yes


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## Chr!s (Dec 17, 2018)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Oh yes





A lot of Japanese games actually seemed to go hard on the swing, jazz and funk elements the more I think about it.

Fighting games used to have like, full-on porn soundtracks


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## JimmyPoppa (Dec 17, 2018)

Guys, I can't tell you how encouraging this is. For someone with no knowledge of games and the music involved, you are all opening up a whole world of possibilities. I realize zillions of people want to do it but that's true in all things worth pursuing. It's just fantastic to hear all the options and styles of really great music. And the fact that the orchestrated jazz/cartoon style is used in even a few is a real eye opener. I honestly had no idea. As ka00 said, this is an awesome thread. Thanks again. J


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## garyhiebner (Dec 18, 2018)

What gets me every time, is listening to the Legend of Zelda theme (Nintendo version)



And then hearing it with a full orchestra, absolutely amazing!


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## Crowe (Dec 18, 2018)

My. Favorite. Topic.

I've been researching video-game music for quite a while (because it's the greatest thing evar).
These are a few of my favorite (sound) tracks:

*note: Most of the music I like finds its origin in Japan. This is just the way things turned out and doesn't say much about what I think about western game-music. Also, most of these are RPG soundtracks. I'll gather my non-rpg examples later.

*Bravely Default - *Revo (Linked Horizon)

If anything, please listen to this. I feel a lot of RPGs try to emulate the style of Final Fantasy games which I believe to be a mistake. Bravely Default features one of the most amazing Fantasy OSTs I've ever heard and I believe it to be vastly superior to anything else Squeenix has ever published.



There is also a live concert by the composer called "Luxendarc Kikou". All of it is amazing.
*

Persona 5 - Meguro Shoji
*
I've never heard Jazz and Swing in a video game quite like this. This game is all about 'Style' and the soundtrack knows it. You may recognize kitty from my avatar. Perhaps that's because this is my favorite vg-soundtrack of all time.




*Grandia - Noriyuki Iwadare
*
Released around the same time as Final Fantasy 7 but with a (in my probably wrong opinion) superior soundtrack that truly captures the feel of the adventure.

Funny thing is, the music itself is often infuriatingly simple.




*Touhou - Kokyo Active Neets*

So, this is technically cheating because the Kokyo Active Neets only re-arrange Touhou music (which I find kinda awful of itself). But boy, do they turn it into magic.



A warning, Touhou is basically a movement of people remixing and re-arranging music from the 'Touhou' games, which are all made and composed by one person. The originals are often kind of basic, but for example the Kokyo Active Neets (and _Tokyo Active Neets _for their Jazz-oriented brothers and sisters) do amazing things with the base material.


*Scott Pilgrim Vs The World - Anamanaguchi
*
Chiptune! But as far as chiptune is concerned, it doesn't get much better than Anamanaguchi. Except maybe Disasterpiece.
*

*


I'll post some more later when I'm not at work . I also can't post more than 5 pieces of media at a time it seems.


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## Henu (Dec 18, 2018)

JimmyPoppa said:


> My girlfriend and I are both composers considering video games. *Neither of us plays the games.*



As a life-long gamer and a games composer, I feel a bit offended. :(

I understand that you had a disclaimer that you are aware of the learning curve, but in all seriousness, this is like saying that "_I'm supposed to score a movie but I don't watch movies. Please recommend me movie soundtracks_". How are you supposed to be able to provide quality music suitable for the flow and the pace of the game if you have no idea how it should be done within the context?

First of all- forget "game music" as a genre. There are as many genres of music in games nowadays than there are games. And as already mentioned, it ranges from 30´s jazz to goddamn death metal and back. It's all about the _context_. Period. The only thing that, say, Cuphead (Kristofer Maddigan) and Doom (Mick Gordon) have in common in musical terms is the fact that the music is instrumental and is used in a game.

Do yourself a favour, and start exploring the genre of the game you're working on immediately, by checking a ton of gameplay videos from Youtube (without commentary) for starters. Then play the crap out of couple of the closest ones to get the idea of how and when the music is implemented when you are making your journey throughout the game.
When you have done that, grab that Winifred Phillips' book and compare your recent findings and mental notes with that- if you have absoutely no idea of game music in general beforehand, the whole book will be rather useless, so I heartily recommend to read it when you have gathered some general knowledge first. Otherwise you will miss a lot of information from the stuff she has written. It's a good book, and I've read it myself as well.

Oh, and when you have survived and succeeded with this gig, I'm pretty sure you might be way closer to become a gamer. There are so much awesome games to explore and enjoy it's impossible to resist this wonderful form of entertainment- especially when you have worked with one, played it a ton in the process and grown a bit more attached to the world of gaming.


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## ka00 (Dec 18, 2018)

Henu said:


> this is like saying that "_I'm supposed to score a movie but I don't watch movies. Please recommend me movie soundtracks_".



Well, if we look a bit more closely at his posts in this thread, the movie analogy is a bit more like “I make music and have heard they use music in movies but I haven’t really heard what movie music can sound like when done right, so I’d love some examples.”

Feels like a valid question. I don’t see where he said he got offered a gig for scoring a video game, agreed to do the job and is now cramming.

Your post was full of sensible suggestions though, no argument here.


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## Henu (Dec 18, 2018)

Hah, that's actually true- I got so carried away that I read it way too hastily, sorry. 

Nevertheless, my point stands: if you want to score for games, get knowledge on _how_ the music is used in games instead _which_ kind of music is used first!


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## Chr!s (Dec 18, 2018)

Henu said:


> As a life-long gamer and a games composer, I feel a bit offended. :(
> 
> I understand that you had a disclaimer that you are aware of the learning curve, but in all seriousness, this is like saying that "_I'm supposed to score a movie but I don't watch movies. Please recommend me movie soundtracks_". How are you supposed to be able to provide quality music suitable for the flow and the pace of the game if you have no idea how it should be done within the context?
> 
> ...



You know, I've had this discussion many times with people, and I stand by it:

You actually don't need to be a "gamer" to be able to effectively compose music for them.

There's this weird thing where people think that never playing DOOM or Zelda would somehow impede you from composing effectively for them.

Dude who composed for The Last of Us is in his 60s and never did a game before then. I don't think Greg Edmonson ever did games before Uncharted. I doubt these guys actually play much of them, if at all and they still made award-winning scores. Nolan North is famous as Nathan Drake, and never actually played the games himself, yet is great at his job.

Regardless you're still going to be seeing the game in action, and the places and situations that need music. If you need to create a dynamic soundtrack but don't know how to use that tech, you can either learn yourself or outsource FMOD and stuff: No gaming experience required.

It's all about composing music within a given context. I don't think it's as different from film scoring or concept albums as some argue.


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## fourteentoone (Dec 18, 2018)

First of all, thanks for the love for Ori on this thread, much appreciated.

To answer the original question, I'll make a few recommendations

*Bioshock (Garry Schyman)*

No-one can compose like Garry. He has his own language. His work on Bioshock is extraordinary.



*Hellblade Senua's Sacrifice (David Garcia & Andy LaPlegua)
*
This game in particular does an incredible job of marrying dialogue, SFX, ambience and music into a cohesive experience WITH the gameplay/story. It's no surprise that David Garcia is in-house at Ninja Theory. For me it's one of the best audio experiences ever committed to the medium.



*Assassins Creed series (Jesper Kyd and many many others)*

The series just in general has incredible music.



*Remember Me (Olivier Deriviere)
*
Olivier Deriviere is in a league of his own in matching music with gameplay and implementation. But he is able to combine his integration skills with musicality, which is quite rare.

This score combines live orchestra with glitchscape that ties into the memory fragmentation that is a huge part of the plot and gameplay.



On the jazz side of things, check out LA Noire, and Grim Fandango. Enjoy 

Lastly, you don't **have** to be a gamer to score a game well. But in the cases of those who don't, they are usually working with an outstanding audio director or music team that is going to take the stems of their recordings and implement / breakdown / re-arrange for them, this was the case in Spiderman, God of War, and many other games, especially at the AAA level where so much music is required.

Especailly in the case of games with any kind of narrative, you need to have a basic understanding of what the player is going through. You simply cannot understand that if you are not holding the controller and taking part in the interactivity in some way. It may be conveyed to you in a video, or even by an audio director, but, that brings me to my next point...

...When you're starting out, good luck getting an audio team that is going to be that dedicated to getting your music to play back properly in the game! You are going to need to do it yourself, or at least have some understanding of what you want so you can give it to a programmer so they can set it up for you. Resources are stretched so thin at the indie level that getting any time allocated for programming is quite hard. The better understanding you have of the game and how you want your music played, the better it'll end up being implemented. You can get this done without having any FMod or Wwise knowledge whatsoever, but you still need to be able to communicate to a programmer what you need.

It is true that it is possible to write music for games and treat it like a film score or a concept album. But this is the bare minimum (and sometimes that is enough depending on the game).

But those doing the best work in our medium are either playing the games or have a great audio team supporting them in their work. It's not _music for games_, but *game music*. There is a subtle but important difference, and to be frank, not that many people get this. The more you understand how music can connect to a player when it comes to the gameplay experience the better your chances of delivering great music for the game you work on. How you do this is up to you! But playing the games themselves is in my opinion, by far, the easiest way to gain this understanding.

Thanks for reading if you got this far!


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## Henu (Dec 19, 2018)

@Chr!s and @fourteentoone

While I understand your rather similar stances, I think you both are approaching the topic from a bit different angle than me. And you both have extremely good and agreeable points!

But "composing music within a given context" is, in my opinion, completely different thing than "composing music for cohesive immersion throughout the whole experience"- which could be my hasty definition of music used in games.

Being a sort of an "asset machine" only is completely possible and does not make you any worse on creating awesome music for any context. But it may hinder your creative decisions a lot in the process- and you will definitely need that outstanding audio director in order to make the final music files to fit to the gameplay, narrative and flow. And as that's simply not reality in most of the game dev houses, the composer is usually required to be that music director him/herself. Hence my approach on the topic. From that particular (non-AAA) small-team-angle, being "just" a composer just doesn't suffice if you want to make the music really to support the gaming experience.

Naturally, working with AAA titles is completely a different job in that sort of a sense. Which brings a completely new angle to the discussion, as between the one man team and the asset machine mercenary composer there is also the seasoned AAA composer- the person who has the skills to create fitting music for a game AND the team behind him helping with the implementation and design of the music flow. In case you have an audio director, coders and other team members to take care of everything but the actual music composition and production, it leaves a lot of time to do even better and more thought-out music, which serves bigger productions even better.

At the end of the day, we are all just composers doing mostly what we love, which is the most important thing. I have been a devoted gamer for my whole life, and when I got my first job in the games industry fourteen years ago I was almost jizzing my pants. Hell, I still need to be cautious about it even today at times! I understand that for many composers it might be "just a job" when doing music for games- but for me, it combines the two of my biggest passions of all time, gaming _and_ music. It's blood, sweat and endless stream of pixels each screaming your name like it was your job to give them a suitable theme music. And I love every second of it.


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## paularthur (Dec 19, 2018)

Follow up: I don't play games daily anymore but during commutes or still moments i tend to go on spotify and search Distant Worlds (Distant Worlds 2 is my fav) or Video Games Live: Level 6.


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## Cathbad (Sep 8, 2020)

JimmyPoppa said:


> I'm wondering if you have suggestions about which games to check out to give us a good overview.



Home computer gaming has a history that goes back about 40 years. It'll take quite a while to get a good overview. 

There has been good music written for games throughout this time. The thread concentrates mostly on recent games, but go a bit further back and there are gems from all decades. Here are some of my favourites from a few years ago.

*Twin Turbo V8* (by Lyndon Sharp, 1989 on ZX Spectrum)
*Jet Force Gemini* (by Robin Beanland, 1999 on N64)
*Jet Set Radio *(by Hideki Naganuma, 2000 on Dreamcast)
*Jade Empire *(by Jack Wall, 2007 on XBox)


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