# Orchestral Tools - Berlin Con Sordino Strings [2nd UPDATE]



## Sunny Schramm (May 24, 2022)

Berlin Con Sordino Strings


Berlin Con Sordino Strings delivers the authentic sound of real string sections played with mutes, featuring an array of articulations and unique textures for composing rich, layered arrangements.




www.orchestraltools.com











AAAAND...... SINE V1.10 is also live 

What's new?​Version: v1.1.0​*Changes in this version:*


SINEplayer 1.1.0 brings a UI refresh across most areas of SINEplayer and introduces some new legato options used by upcoming content.
UI Refresh:

SINE has a new logo, also used as the application icon.
The Articulation Options have a new layout with improved controls.
All buttons in SINEplayer have been reworked and now have a hover state.
Individual instruments are easier to differentiate in the Mixer.
The wording of the activation dialog has been made clearer.
Legsto Tweaks:

This version includes some new legato options which are used by upcoming content.


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## Frederick (May 24, 2022)

Downloading the Strings bundle.  

Very happy to hear the reason for not yet having updated the main's legatos had to do with short comings of SINE, which they now have addressed and that updates will be released incrementally.


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## NoamL (May 24, 2022)

Gotta admit these sound excellent. And it's an area of string writing that needs more deep sampling.

OT prices (even on intro) and SINE are keeping me from buying. Also the artic list seems gimmicky; the basic sustains, legatos and harmonics are very welcome but ... practice mutes? Arpeggios?

Looking forward to reading people's experiences with the new updated SINE.


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## ka00 (May 24, 2022)

NoamL said:


> OT prices (even on intro) and SINE are keeping me from buying


On the other hand, their bundle completion prices are quite good. If you own everything else in the bundle the Con Sord library is €179.64.


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## musicalweather (May 24, 2022)

Does anyone know how long the sale goes on? *EDIT:* nevermind. I see that the intro price for Con Sordino Strings goes until June 7th.


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## muziksculp (May 24, 2022)

Hi,

OK, I just pulled the trigger on the *Berlin Con Sordino Strings , *and* Berlin Strings SFX* via the Bundle Price, I own all of the other Strings in the Bundle, so my Berlin Con Sordino Strings + Berlin Strings SFX price was €269.28. Very nice discount.

Check your bundle price if you own some of the libraries in the bundle before purchasing.





Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Zanshin (May 24, 2022)

musicalweather said:


> Does anyone know how long the sale goes on?


June 7th.


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## lettucehat (May 24, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> OK, I just pulled the trigger on the *Berlin Con Sordino Strings* via the Bundle Price, I own all of the other Strings in the Bundle, so my Berlin Con Sordino Strings price was €269.28 EUR instead of €349. EUR.





ka00 said:


> On the other hand, their bundle completion prices are quite good. If you own everything else in the bundle the Con Sord library is €179.64.


This is quite a discrepancy.. is one of you mistaken about how many products you already owned? Does ka00 have libraries that aren't available to muziksulp?


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## Zanshin (May 24, 2022)

lettucehat said:


> This is quiet a discrepancy.. is one of you mistaken about how many products you already owned? Does ka00 have libraries that aren't available to muziksulp?


Yeah he probably had the kontakt SFX library already (and everything else).


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## Jett Hitt (May 24, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> OK, I just pulled the trigger on the *Berlin Con Sordino Strings* via the Bundle Price, I own all of the other Strings in the Bundle, so my Berlin Con Sordino Strings price was €269.28 EUR instead of €349. EUR.
> 
> ...


My price is 269, but I don’t have Strings SFX. You must be missing something else.


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## lettucehat (May 24, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Yeah he probably had the kontakt SFX library.


That might be it (or he has Special Bows / FC in Kontakt and didn't crossgrade), but for all of these the Sine crossgrade is free, so once you claim it you get the benefit of their discounts.


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## Jett Hitt (May 24, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> OK, I just pulled the trigger on the *Berlin Con Sordino Strings* via the Bundle Price, I own all of the other Strings in the Bundle, so my Berlin Con Sordino Strings price was €269.28 EUR instead of €349. EUR.
> 
> ...


My price is 269, but I don’t have Strings SFX. You must be missing something else.


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## muziksculp (May 24, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> My price is 269, but I don’t have Strings SFX. You must be missing something else.


Oh.. my bad, I didn't own Strings SFX, so my Bundle Price includes both The Con Sordino, and SFX Libraries.


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## muziksculp (May 24, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Gotta admit these sound excellent. And it's an area of string writing that needs more deep sampling.
> 
> OT prices (even on intro) and SINE are keeping me from buying. Also the artic list seems gimmicky; the basic sustains, legatos and harmonics are very welcome but ... practice mutes? Arpeggios?
> 
> Looking forward to reading people's experiences with the new updated SINE.


@NoamL ,

You need more Strings Libraries. Stop giving yourself excuses for not buying these wonderful sounding new SINE OT Strings libraries. *Just Do It ! 

*


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## dzilizzi (May 24, 2022)

Waiting for the comments on the Con sordinos and SFX. Will probably grab it anyway. I guess the Orchestral Strings Runs are different from the SFX? I can't find that I own SFX.


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## FrozenIcicle (May 24, 2022)

I don’t know if I’ll need any of these string libraries in the bundle but the discount brings it down to a normal price 😩


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## dzilizzi (May 24, 2022)

FrozenIcicle said:


> I don’t know if I’ll need any of these stringle libraries in the bundle but the discount brings it down to a normal price 😩


The standard GAS rationalization.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 24, 2022)

OT totally nails it with their legatos….and those are what sold me on buying Berlin Strings last year. I’m definitely picking up the sords. Between these and my recent purchase of SCS, I’m in string heaven🤠.


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## MelodicAdagio (May 24, 2022)

These con sordino strings sound really nice. I'll definitely be getting this during the introductory period.


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## Zanshin (May 24, 2022)

Really good honeymooning with the Sordinos  Here's a quick doodle with some horns (not Berlin).

View attachment Berlin CS doodle.mp3


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## Rudianos (May 24, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Really good honeymooning with the Sordinos  Here's a quick doodle with some horns (not Berlin).
> 
> View attachment Berlin CS doodle.mp3


so warm and lovely


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## CT (May 24, 2022)

I like what I hear from these in the announcement video, and there's really nothing left out in terms of articulations which is a nice change from the trend of having one or two token longs/shorts, or just an emulated effect.

If I were a normal Berlin Strings user it would drive me nuts that the ensemble size is _slightly_ different (why?!), but that might actually be of benefit in terms of wedding it with certain other libraries. Interesting....

Edit: it also looks like there are three dynamic layers for the fundamentals. That's... not much, but relatively speaking, it's pretty in-depth. Again, this stuff is usually not sampled in great detail so even three is nice to have.


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## Rossy (May 24, 2022)

I'm on a buying diet but this may make me fall off it.


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## ALittleNightMusic (May 24, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> OT totally nails it with their legatos….and those are what sold me on buying Berlin Strings last year. I’m definitely picking up the sords. Between these and my recent purchase of SCS, I’m in string heaven🤠.


Hmm really? I have tried the various legato types for BSS and they did not sound particularly good to me compared to other libraries.


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## ALittleNightMusic (May 24, 2022)

Which other developers have recorded true con sordino? AudioBro with MSS, Spitfire in SSS and SCS, Sonokinetic. Anybody else? Owning MSS, SSS, and SCS makes this less of an empty gap to fill for me - will have to compare the sound and options.


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## Zanshin (May 24, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Which other developers have recorded true con sordino? AudioBro with MSS, Spitfire in SSS and SCS, Sonokinetic. Anybody else? Owning MSS, SSS, and SCS makes this less of an empty gap to fill for me - will have to compare the sound and options.


VSL Dimension Strings, VI Solo, Chamber, Orchestral, and Appassionata all have recorded Sordino.


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## dhlkid (May 24, 2022)

Now I hope VSL will release Sychron Mute Strings


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 24, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Hmm really? I have tried the various legato types for BSS and they did not sound particularly good to me compared to other libraries.


I've never tried BSS, only Berlin Strings and the legatos are great IMO.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 24, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Which other developers have recorded true con sordino? AudioBro with MSS, Spitfire in SSS and SCS, Sonokinetic. Anybody else? Owning MSS, SSS, and SCS makes this less of an empty gap to fill for me - will have to compare the sound and options.


In addition to what Zanshin mentioned, there's a lot of 8Dio libraries that contain recorded sordinos.


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## Rudianos (May 24, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Hmm really? I have tried the various legato types for BSS and they did not sound particularly good to me compared to other libraries.


I find them to be so much more expressive and consistent. But if they're not particularly good what is good in your ears?


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## ALittleNightMusic (May 24, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> I find them to be so much more expressive and consistent. But if they're not particularly good what is good in your ears?


More expressive and consistent compared to what? I didn't find pattern legato any better at arpeggios or patterns than CSS for example. And same goes for rapid legato. This is specific to BSS before the 1.5 update though (they have apparently tweaked the legatos).


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## lettucehat (May 24, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> VSL Dimension Strings, VI Solo, Chamber, Orchestral, and Appassionata all have recorded Sordino.


Century Strings as well, very extensive articulations.


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## PaulieDC (May 24, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I've never tried BSS, only Berlin Strings and the legatos are great IMO.


I'm BONKERS about the sound of BSS, especially the celli. In my "still trying to figure all this out" stage that is.  Which I'm sure makes @ALittleNightMusic think _I'm_ bonkers, lol...


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## ALittleNightMusic (May 24, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> I'm BONKERS about the sound of BSS, especially the celli. In my "still trying to figure all this out" stage that is.  Which I'm sure makes @ALittleNightMusic think _I'm_ bonkers, lol...


As long as you like it, you're sane! It's when you start listening to other people over your own ears that you are no longer in control of your thoughts. Seems the BSS 1.5 update addresses many concerns as well.


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## PaulieDC (May 24, 2022)

lettucehat said:


> This is quite a discrepancy.. is one of you mistaken about how many products you already owned? Does ka00 have libraries that aren't available to muziksulp?


So I have all of the libraries in the bundle, and my price was 269 also, except that I still have my EDU pricing in place until the end of the year, so it brought the collection "upgrade" down to 167 Euros which right now is about 179 USD. Safe to guess that I leaped on it, I'm pretty much an OT fanboy at this stage, just fancy the sound of Teldex.


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## PaulieDC (May 24, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I didn't find pattern legato any better at arpeggios or patterns than CSS for example.


Oh good! It isn't worse!


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## Rudianos (May 24, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> More expressive and consistent compared to what? I didn't find pattern legato any better at arpeggios or patterns than CSS for example. And same goes for rapid legato. This is specific to BSS before the 1.5 update though (they have apparently tweaked the legatos).


Compared to early version of itself. And more expressive coming from trying VSL Strings. Though less nimble.

Yeah I am always impressed in CSS demos. Someday I will try it out. I do like the sound. What's another purchase


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## JTB (May 24, 2022)

I know of one song using con sordino by Greig that I used to enjoy until I realised it made me feel rather melancholic. The legatos sound nice in this library but I get a feeling that they usually do with darker sounding strings like CSS. Something to do with the high frequencies making the transitions easier to fault.


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## galactic orange (May 24, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> So I have all of the libraries in the bundle, and my price was 269 also, except that I still have my EDU pricing in place until the end of the year, so it brought the collection "upgrade" down to 167 Euros which right now is about 179 USD. Safe to guess that I leaped on it, I'm pretty much an OT fanboy at this stage, just fancy the sound of Teldex.


Which libraries were you lacking to upgrade to the bundle? My EDU pricing ended in April. The only libraries I didn’t own yet were the two newly released ones, Con Sordino and SFX, and my upgrade price was €269. I asked OT support if renewing my EDU coverage would make a difference in the bundle upgrade price and was told this:

_Thank you for contacting us. The EDU discount does not stack on top of the special intro offer of the bundle. 
In this case, it would apply on the regular price. Of course, your prior purchases will be discounted, but the EDU discount would be applied to the regular price._

I ended up paying the €269 price, which is nice, but not if I was told something incorrect.


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## ALittleNightMusic (May 24, 2022)

EDU discount seems to lower the price for me. I'm seeing 449euros when added to the cart instead of 498 that shows on the page after I log in.


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## muziksculp (May 25, 2022)

Hi, 

These Berlin Con Sordino Strings sound wonderful.  

My first complaint though is when enabling the 'Niente' option in dynamics, the transition to silence is not smooth, but quite abrupt when I'm at the lower values of dynamics i.e. when using the mod-wheel the lowest dynamics just jump to silence instead of a more natural decay to silence. I still have to use CC11 to tame it. So, basically the Niente option is useless of I only used CC1. 

Are you experiencing this issue ? Do you think it is something I should report to OT Support ? 

Thanks.


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## holywilly (May 25, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> These Berlin Con Sordino Strings sound wonderful.
> 
> ...


I'm using the same route, using CC11 instead of Niente.

Speaking of Berlin Con Sordino Strings, it's the most beautiful string library ever sampled! I know deadline is coming, I just can't stop playing with this new toy. Now I wish Berlin Strings can have the same expressiveness from Con Sordino Strings, it's just beautiful.


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## PaulieDC (May 25, 2022)

galactic orange said:


> Which libraries were you lacking to upgrade to the bundle? My EDU pricing ended in April. The only libraries I didn’t own yet were the two newly released ones, Con Sordino and SFX, and my upgrade price was €269. I asked OT support if renewing my EDU coverage would make a difference in the bundle upgrade price and was told this:
> 
> _Thank you for contacting us. The EDU discount does not stack on top of the special intro offer of the bundle.
> In this case, it would apply on the regular price. Of course, your prior purchases will be discounted, but the EDU discount would be applied to the regular price._
> ...


I had everything except the new Con Sordino of course, so my "bundle" was simply adding the new one. My guess: since my previous purchases dropped the price down to 269,55 euros without any special discount, that took the 999 sale price out of the picture. Therefore the 40% EDU _was _able to be applied to the remaining amount. That's the best whack at it I can come up with. Here's my invoice, showing 40% off of the remaining 269,55:






It's true that they don't stack EDU with other SALE prices, so if you owned nothing at all, instead of the 999,00 sale price, EDU folks would get the full collection for 899,40, which is 40% off the regular price of 1.499,00 for the collection.


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## muziksculp (May 25, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Now I wish Berlin Strings can have the same expressiveness from Con Sordino Strings, it's just beautiful.


Hopefully OT will be able to do that for BS . They deserve a major improvement.


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## PaulieDC (May 25, 2022)

Wow, remember when Berlin Strings was $840 with almost no sales a few years back? And if there was, you'd get a voucher to apply to something different, etc etc, and we'd play Chinese Checkers to try and get the best price.

Now for $999 you get all 7 string libraries if you're new to this or just never bought OT stuff. That whole collection is the same price as SCS Pro, regular price. Not a bad time to be shopping for strings.


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## muziksculp (May 25, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> Wow, remember when Berlin Strings was $840 with almost no sales a few years back? And if there was, you'd get a voucher to apply to something different, etc etc, and we'd play Chinese Checkers to try and get the best price.
> 
> Now for $999 you get all 7 string libraries if you're new to this or just never bought OT stuff. That whole collection is the same price as SCS Pro, regular price. Not a bad time to be shopping for strings.


Yup, and add to that the new attractive price of Pacific Strings, with Pacific Solo Strings. It's a strings buyer's Nirvana.


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## galactic orange (May 25, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> EDU discount seems to lower the price for me. I'm seeing 449euros when added to the cart instead of 498 that shows on the page after I log in.


Thanks. I’ll contact support again.


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## Multipdf (May 25, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Which other developers have recorded true con sordino? AudioBro with MSS, Spitfire in SSS and SCS, Sonokinetic. Anybody else? Owning MSS, SSS, and SCS makes this less of an empty gap to fill for me - will have to compare the sound and options.


I have the Freebie Pacific Violins Con Sordino Strings from Performance Samples and they are my favourite sounding Con Sordinos ever. I am sorely tempted to buy the whole library on release even though there is no vibrato control.... :(


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## ism (May 25, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully OT will be able to do that for BS . They deserve a major improvement.


Yes, I love Berlin String. And it's not a criticism as such, it's more that in subsequent libraries, not least in the BCS, OT have really refined the concepts and aesthetic dimension pioneered in BS.

And there would be a lot of value, I feel, it revisiting the original BS to hone it a little bit in knowledge of what has come since.

It's such a great library, and a bit of refining and honing could really go a long way.


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## Evans (May 25, 2022)

Tinkering with the legato volume really goes a long way for sculpting BCSS, but I wish the different legato types could have different volumes applied within the same patch.





(just showing the default settings; it's a menu item that's easy to miss when first getting to know SINE)


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## FrozenIcicle (May 25, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> I had everything except the new Con Sordino of course, so my "bundle" was simply adding the new one. My guess: since my previous purchases dropped the price down to 269,55 euros without any special discount, that took the 999 sale price out of the picture. Therefore the 40% EDU _was _able to be applied to the remaining amount. That's the best whack at it I can come up with. Here's my invoice, showing 40% off of the remaining 269,55:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


damn I need to enrol into something to get 40% off


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## Rudianos (May 25, 2022)

Imagine if they port that expressive legato to every other library they have. Its now within sights.


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## holywilly (May 25, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Imagine if they port that expressive legato to every other library they have. Its now within sights.


And finger legato, it’s pure gold.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (May 25, 2022)

What is the time delay of intervals for legato? Is true re bowing enabled?


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## emilio_n (May 25, 2022)

I hate you OT! 
Why do you make this bundle so tempting!

Complete my Bundle for less than 700€... But I just got the Synchron Strings a couple of weeks ago!!
No way!


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## holywilly (May 25, 2022)

emilio_n said:


> I hate you OT!
> Why do you make this bundle so tempting!
> 
> Complete my Bundle for less than 700€... But I just got the Synchron Strings a couple of weeks ago!!
> No way!


I hate to say this, the fact is that Berlin and Synchron work very well together, and new SINE truly makes legatos shine!


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## Zanshin (May 25, 2022)

holywilly said:


> I hate to say this, the fact is that Berlin and Synchron work very well together, and new SINE truly makes legatos shine!


Agree 1000%. Berlin and Synchron make great partners.


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## gamma-ut (May 25, 2022)

holywilly said:


> I hate to say this, the fact is that Berlin and Synchron work very well together...



That is a metric crapton of strings.


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## Evans (May 25, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Agree 1000%. Berlin and Synchron make great partners.


The time I became really happy with the BSS sustains was when I layered in Synchron Strings Pro.


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## emilio_n (May 25, 2022)

holywilly said:


> I hate to say this, the fact is that Berlin and Synchron work very well together, and new SINE truly makes legatos shine!


I hate you William 😂😂😂


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## holywilly (May 25, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Agree 1000%. Berlin and Synchron make great partners


Layer elite strings (divisi mix presets) on top of Berlin strings (main, symphonic and con sordino) will make your string sounds super expensive.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (May 25, 2022)

How good have legato become? I don't believe a word you say. Your statements remain groundless so far. Seriously, no demonstration has convinced me yet that legato has become what they can be, for example, as good as in staffpad. I heard the sound and it's good, but the perfomanse of the intervals leaves questions.


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## Rudianos (May 25, 2022)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> How good have legato become? I don't believe a word you say. Your statements remain groundless so far. Seriously, no demonstration has convinced me yet that legato has become what they can be, for example, as good as in staffpad. I heard the sound and it's good, but the perfomanse of the intervals leaves questions.


well. All you can do then is buy 1 instrument and try. Not an expensive risk. 109 for Violins I Sordino ... I don't use staff pad but I would say this this puts OT Sine strings in the top for expression. Add sound, dynamics on top of it that Berlin already had ...


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## Vladimir Bulaev (May 25, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> well. All you can do then is buy 1 instrument and try. Not an expensive risk. 109 for Violins I Sordino ... I don't use staff pad but I would say this this puts OT Sine strings in the top for expression. Add sound, dynamics on top of it that Berlin already had ...


Thanks, but no, I don't need another string library. I will be sure when I am sure that this is the level of the CSS or more! Convince me with your demonstrations.


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## muziksculp (May 25, 2022)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Thanks, but no, I don't need another string library. I will be sure when I am sure that this is the level of the CSS or more! Convince me with your demonstrations.


You are a hardcore CSS fan.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 25, 2022)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Thanks, but no, I don't need another string library. I will be sure when I am sure that this is the level of the CSS or more! Convince me with your demonstrations.


Are there Con Sordinos in CSS? I don't own it, I'm just wondering.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (May 25, 2022)

First of all, I am interested in legato. CSS has a good legato, why? That's because the intervals are not cut, and the rest of the developers cut the perfomanse, which are so important. Those who know this will understand me.


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## muziksculp (May 25, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Are there Con Sordinos in CSS? I don't own it, I'm just wondering.


Not real Con Sordinos, but emulated via filters.


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## lettucehat (May 25, 2022)

As someone who thinks the BS legatos are just ok by today's standards, pretty good with pixelpoet, and BSS' original legatos were often straight up bad... and also doesn't like VSL legato much... the many videos and audio demos are plenty of evidence that the Con Sordino legatos are indeed very nice. BSS' own audio demos couldn't hide how bad the legatos are/were(?) but if all of the demo writers are skillfully hiding the shortcomings of the CS legato then they are doing a very good job of it.


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## Zanshin (May 25, 2022)

xsubs said:


> How does this stack up against VSL Dimension Strings II?


DS is a beast, like it's own category haha. That said IMO DS is would be more suited to something like Psycho. Where as BCSS is like softer-warmer with soft attacks. Which leads me to my only (minor) con for BCSS - no accented attack sustains.


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## Frederick (May 25, 2022)

Anyone else having problems with opening the My Licenses section of the SINE player at the moment? I decided to reinstall BSS, but I get an error when I try to open that page. Some image for LA Sessions seems to be unavailable... Everything was working fine yesterday when I downloaded the BCSS and othere libraries. It doesn't matter on which PC...

Edit: Integration Error. Cannot update the library.

Cannot retrieve metadata online content. Service returned error: Unable to open image /mount/efs/shared/web/uploads/image/collection_imageHero_1605187884_la-sessions-hero-desktop-3200x1200.svg
Integration Error


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## muziksculp (May 25, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> DS is a beast, like it's own category haha. That said IMO DS is would be more suited to something like Psycho. Where as BCSS is like softer-warmer with soft attacks. Which leads me to my only con for BCSS - no accented attack sustains.


You can always layer/crossfade some BCSS shorts to give the BCSS sustains a bit of an attack. SINE is very versatile, you don't have to just use the presets.


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## Rudianos (May 25, 2022)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Thanks, but no, I don't need another string library. I will be sure when I am sure that this is the level of the CSS or more! Convince me with your demonstrations.


Well 4-8 measures of what you are looking for and will try to get around to cutting it. 1 instrument. Let me know what you might want. Or I can do something from Holst. ... And with regards to intervals being recorded does that not limit you to the performance at the moment. Expression that may not always be appropriate?


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## Zanshin (May 25, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> You can always layer/crossfade some BCSS shorts to give the BCSS sustains a bit of an attack. SINE is very versatile, you don't have to just use the presets.


I'm not a fan of layering shorts with longs to achieve that. Anyway it's a minor thing (for me), but worth noting.


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## artomatic (May 25, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Als





Frederick said:


> Anyone else having problems with opening the My Licenses section of the SINE player at the moment? I decided to reinstall BSS, but I get an error when I try to open that page. Some image for LA Sessions seems to be unavailable... Everything was working fine yesterday when I downloaded the BCSS and othere libraries. It doesn't matter on which PC...
> 
> Edit: Integration Error. Cannot update the library.
> 
> ...




Yeah, "My Licenses" is not opening. Says my computer is currently offline..


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## Casiquire (May 25, 2022)

Frederick said:


> Anyone else having problems with opening the My Licenses section of the SINE player at the moment? I decided to reinstall BSS, but I get an error when I try to open that page. Some image for LA Sessions seems to be unavailable... Everything was working fine yesterday when I downloaded the BCSS and othere libraries. It doesn't matter on which PC...
> 
> Edit: Integration Error. Cannot update the library.
> 
> ...


That's odd. I would try to reinstall SINE

I'm having some issues with SINE myself now. I can't tell if they broke in the update or if I missed it before but trying to relocate all libraries crashes the whole thing. On the flip side, it's been very stable when loading new articulations or mics while playing. That used to be touchier.


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## Frederick (May 25, 2022)

artomatic said:


> Yeah, "My Licenses" is not opening. Says my computer is currently offline..


Yes, but if you first try the web shop section then that part still connects to the server without problems.



Casiquire said:


> That's odd. I would try to reinstall SINE


Yesterday I upgraded to 1.10 on two machines and afterwards it worked fine on both. My guess is they're having an inconsistant filename or something on the server side at the moment. I've contacted support.

Edit: I've tried to reinstall, but the problem remains.



Casiquire said:


> I'm having some issues with SINE myself now. I can't tell if they broke in the update or if I missed it before but trying to relocate all libraries crashes the whole thing.


That still seems to be working on my side...


----------



## PaulieDC (May 25, 2022)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> *Thanks, but no, I don't need another string library.* I will be sure when I am sure that this is the level of the CSS or more! Convince me with your demonstrations.


Um... then why even come on here accusing people of no evidence, etc etc etc? Nobody on here is required to convince anyone of anything. Just sayin.


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## Raphioli (May 25, 2022)

They seem like they've captures a really nice timbre with the consordino strings.

I can't make a decision on wether the legatos are good or not right now, but there's no flaws like the ones in the Berlin Brass port. So that's good. (Edit:Just to be clear, this is based on listening to all of the demos and watching the videos)

But I wish they would let us change the settings of the duration of the legato transitions and crossfade points. (basically the ability to do the pixelpoet trick but in SINE)
Not just volume and velocity.
I would definitely be more inclined to migrate to SINE if they implement such feature.
My assumption is that they already have this kind of feature within their developer tools, but limiting access to it for end-user. If that's the case, I really hope they reconsider it.


----------



## Casiquire (May 25, 2022)

Raphioli said:


> They seem like they've captures a really nice timbre with the consordino strings.
> 
> I can't make a decision on wether the legatos are good or not right now, but there's no flaws like the ones in the Berlin Brass port. So that's good.
> 
> ...


I'd even settle for a "normal" and "advanced" option, where the advanced just extends it to something like 100-200ms and then plays everything with that same delay. I don't even need a ton of granular control tbh, just give the legatos some more room and make all delays consistent.


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## Simeon (May 25, 2022)

Frederick said:


> Anyone else having problems with opening the My Licenses section of the SINE player at the moment? I decided to reinstall BSS, but I get an error when I try to open that page. Some image for LA Sessions seems to be unavailable... Everything was working fine yesterday when I downloaded the BCSS and othere libraries. It doesn't matter on which PC...
> 
> Edit: Integration Error. Cannot update the library.
> 
> ...


Yep!
Having the same error but with a hero image for OPALINE ;^)






This looks like there is an issue on the server end as I have tried multiple times to do a clean install.

I can also confirm that if you open the STORE, it works as expected, but as soon as you try to view MY LICENSES it kicks the SINE player offline.

I also submitted a report, so hopefully, things can get sorted.

Thanks, @OrchestralTools for checking this out.

Joyfully,
Simeon


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## Zanshin (May 25, 2022)

xsubs said:


> Thanks @Zanshin
> So, would you say I'm covered if I already have DSII?


I am soooo the wrong person to ask. I own every string library VSL makes (including the VI ones), all the dedicated ones OT makes, etc. I think BCSS does warm-lush better than DS 2, it's a really different character. But DS, especially armed with MIR, is kind of peerless with all the arts by string preference etc. DS is a product born of a madness-level attention to detail and flexibility. Syz/VI Chamber Strings Sordino/VI Orchestral Strings is probably a better comparison and I'd still want both BCSS and those. But I'm not you and some people do better with fewer options. Do the demo's sound inspiring to you?


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 25, 2022)

Not sure if it's been posted already, but here's Guy's new video. These sords sound beautiful.


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## PaulieDC (May 25, 2022)

Simeon said:


> Yep!
> Having the same error but with a hero image for OPALINE ;^)
> 
> 
> ...


Release-Week bandwidth is not one of OT's strong points. Then again, how many terabytes are getting requested all at once from around the planet, lol!


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## muziksculp (May 25, 2022)

xsubs said:


> I'm looking at my choices for Con Sordino strings, and would be happy to stay in the VSL camp... I just want to make sure I don't miss out, if BCSS is superior. There's not much out there yet, as far as vids, to convince me.
> Thanks for your thoughts


You might also want to check my thread here about Sordino Strings options

I would also recommend 8dio Century Sordino Strings as another very good sounding option.

https://vi-control.net/community/th...on-sordino-strings-ensemble-library-s.124526/


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## Zanshin (May 25, 2022)

xsubs said:


> I have the complete Synchron Strings bundle, and Synchronized Solo Strings. I am also a MIR user. I only have a couple OT things (Berlin WW Soloists, which I wish I didn't buy), and Majestic Horn (which I love).
> I'm looking at my choices for Con Sordino strings, and would be happy to stay in the VSL camp... I just want to make sure I don't miss out, if BCSS is superior. There's not much out there yet, as far as vids, to convince me.
> Thanks for your thoughts


I don't think the Sine Berlin WW Soloists is well loved (missing IR perhaps), have you tried placing these in MIR?

But yeah MIR definitely opens up some flexibility, any of the VI era strings in Pernegg set to 2.5ish length is a magical combo IMO. If you want to stick to the Synchron Player (and not use the VI Pro Player) the Syz Chamber String Sordino are great (but DO NOY BUY Syz Chamber Strings normale though, the VI version is far superior). 

On the other hand, it's easy to pan Berlin stuff a little wider (use VSL Power Pan Pro or Goodhertz PanPot) to match the wider Synchron stage and then you are golden. I'm sure we'll see more coverage soon


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## prodigalson (May 25, 2022)

ka00 said:


> On the other hand, their bundle completion prices are quite good. If you own everything else in the bundle the Con Sord library is €179.64.


Wait, what?? I own everything other than Con Sord and my price was 269 euro.... are you sure about this?


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## ka00 (May 25, 2022)

prodigalson said:


> Wait, what?? I own everything other than Con Sord and my price was 269 euro.... are you sure about this?


Do you own SFX? This one seems commonly overlooked. And did you activate your sine licenses for each of the separate libraries in the bundle (which I assume is required).


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## prodigalson (May 25, 2022)

Oh man, yes I owned SFX but I didn’t have the sine license activated…


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## prodigalson (May 25, 2022)

I really hope they look kindly on this. I’ll be pretty upset if they say tough shit because Inshoild have been divinely inspired the collections all needed to be activated


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## dzilizzi (May 25, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not sure if it's been posted already, but here's Guy's new video. These sords sound beautiful.



The end where he tries to give help in how to convince your significant other you need to spend the money on this had me laughing.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 25, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> The end where he tries to give help in how to convince your significant other you need to spend the money on this had me laughing.


But he's right!


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## dzilizzi (May 25, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> But he's right!


That's why I laughed!


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## Vik (May 25, 2022)

In Berlin Strings, I find the most intense vibrato level to be a tad too intense, and the least intense vib level to be lacking some intensity. Have any of you tried this with BCSS?


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## Pixelpoet1985 (May 25, 2022)

I understand what you mean. I bought only the first violins of BS some time ago. It’s expressive, but has bumpy legato and not comparable to Staffpad. (I don‘t have it, but I listened to all YouTube videos.)

I always wanted to own the Berlin Series, but I‘m not convinced unfortunately. I expected more. And it‘s also the horrible SINE player which can do nothing. I don‘t understand why they still haven‘t the same features as in Capsule, e.g. the attack types controlled by velocity. They said that they are proud of these attacks, but don‘t care to implement them properly.

And the live event? Oh my, I didn‘t like it at all, the same as the previous one. Much ado about a little something. Other GUI colours? A hover state? Awesome! And what’s the point to have four people sitting there asking themselves questions as if they haven‘t any clue. :D

But I don‘t want to spoil the fun. The con sords sound nice.


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## Rossy (May 25, 2022)

JTB said:


> I know of one song using con sordino by Greig that I used to enjoy until I realised it made me feel rather melancholic. The legatos sound nice in this library but I get a feeling that they usually do with darker sounding strings like CSS. Something to do with the high frequencies making the transitions easier to fault.


Is it the piano concerto in a minor? I think that is a beautiful piece of music 🎶


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## soulofsound (May 25, 2022)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> First of all, I am interested in legato. CSS has a good legato, why? That's because the intervals are not cut, and the rest of the developers cut the perfomanse, which are so important. Those who know this will understand me.


To a point I agree, though you make your point more stridently than i would. These strings sound very beautiful, but the legato could be smoother imo. That said, it's a difficult subject. CSS isn't perfect either.


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## soulofsound (May 25, 2022)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I understand what you mean. I bought only the first violins of BS some time ago. It’s expressive, but has bumpy legato and not comparable to Staffpad. (I don‘t have it, but I listened to all YouTube videos.)
> 
> I always wanted to own the Berlin Series, but I‘m not convinced unfortunately. I expected more. And it‘s also the horrible SINE player which can do nothing. I don‘t understand why they still haven‘t the same features as in Capsule, e.g. the attack types controlled by velocity. They said that they are proud of these attacks, but don‘t care to implement them properly.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly.


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## Futchibon (May 25, 2022)

Simeon said:


> Yep!
> Having the same error but with a hero image for OPALINE ;^)
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, I'm getting this too :(


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## jbuhler (May 25, 2022)

Rossy said:


> Is it the piano concerto in a minor? I think that is a beautiful piece of music 🎶


Aase’s Death from Peer Gynt, I think.


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## JTB (May 25, 2022)

Rossy said:


> Is it the piano concerto in a minor? I think that is a beautiful piece of music 🎶


It is called Aase’s Death from the Peer Gynt Suite No.1
I just Youtubed his piano concerto in a minor and noticed that there is no mutes on the strings.




​


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## muziksculp (May 25, 2022)

soulofsound said:


> These strings sound very beautiful, but the legato could be smoother imo. That said, it's a difficult subject. CSS isn't perfect either.


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## jbuhler (May 25, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>


It’s not even most of the thing.


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## tmhuud (May 25, 2022)

You guys are good with math. What do you think is the better deal. Transferring all of my N. I. EXP Libraries over to SINE, buy the SINE Sordinos on intro, then go for the upgrade to FULL BS or....

Transferring all of my N. I. EXP Libraries over to SINE, then go for the upgrade to FULL BS? (Which will already come with SORDS. hmmm.....🧐


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## Raphioli (May 25, 2022)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I bought only the first violins of BS some time ago. It’s expressive, but has bumpy legato and not comparable to Staffpad.


Have you given a try after updating your SINE player?
Curious if the latest SINE player does anything to improve legatos in previous libraries.


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## Mike Fox (May 25, 2022)

Alright, I’m kind of a moron, noob when it comes to Sine, but what’s the best way to stack articulations? Say i wanted to layer 3 different short notes together. What would be the best way to do this?


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## tmhuud (May 25, 2022)

Assign each loaded instrument to the same MIDI channel or select OMNI.


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## Frederick (May 26, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> Yep, I'm getting this too :(


It seems they have fixed this issue now.


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## Simon Ravn (May 26, 2022)

Wow, can't wait to try this out! Unfortunately SINE is still snail slow at downloading. Sometimes it works fast for a little while, then grinds to a halt. But in a couple of days I might have it all


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## Rossy (May 26, 2022)

JTB said:


> It is called Aase’s Death from the Peer Gynt Suite No.1
> I just Youtubed his piano concerto in a minor and noticed that there is no mutes on the strings.
> 
> 
> ...



No, That's Arthur Rubenstein playing Grieg piano concerto in a minor.


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## Simeon (May 26, 2022)

- SINE DOWNLOAD UPDATE - 
For those having issues accessing the license page, try it now.
There was an issue on the backend servers that seems to have been corrected.
I was able to download BCSS just now and can't wait to dive in.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 26, 2022)

Simeon said:


> - SINE DOWNLOAD UPDATE -
> For those having issues accessing the license page, try it now.
> There was an issue on the backend servers that seems to have been corrected.
> I was able to download BCSS just now and can't wait to dive in.


Simeon, will you be doing a video demonstration? I hope so!


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## Simeon (May 26, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Simeon, will you be doing a video demonstration? I hope so!


Oh yes, I am working on getting things going again after being away. I am looking forward to experiencing this along with all of you, so stay tuned.


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## Ihnoc (May 26, 2022)

I will be picking this up, though I rarely reach for this sound to be honest. I really wish they had sampled Con Sordino Trills as the Tremolo sounds good. Would gladly have traded the extra mutes, arpeggios and louré repetitions for them...


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## FrozenIcicle (May 26, 2022)

Ihnoc said:


> I will be picking this up, though I rarely reach for this sound to be honest. I really wish they had sampled Con Sordino Trills as the Tremolo sounds good. Would gladly have traded the extra mutes, arpeggios and louré repetitions for them...


Dw that will be Con Sordino Special bow 1 + 2


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## Mike Fox (May 26, 2022)

tmhuud said:


> Assign each loaded instrument to the same MIDI channel or select OMNI.


Thanks!


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## tomhartmanmusic (May 26, 2022)

Anyone know whether vibrato can be controlled in this library?


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## Rudianos (May 26, 2022)

tomhartmanmusic said:


> Anyone know whether vibrato can be controlled in this library?


Subtle and expressive patches


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## holywilly (May 26, 2022)

tomhartmanmusic said:


> Anyone know whether vibrato can be controlled in this library?


You can use CC3 to switch from subtle vibrato to expressive, or set the articulations in poly mode to crossfade using assigned CC.


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## tomhartmanmusic (May 26, 2022)

Thanks…well thats something anyway…


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## prodigalson (May 27, 2022)

Wow, such a beautiful tone to this library. Here's a super quick snippet I threw together.

Just 7th Heaven for reverb and little limiting on the master bus for volume. All sounds out of the box (except for Piano from Inspire)

View attachment BCSS Test.mp3


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## Simon Ravn (May 27, 2022)

Sounds good. A little problematic with resonances going on 200-500hz area, especially on violins. I know it's part of what you get with doing sordinos though.

Legato seems very consistent compared to Berlin Symphonic Strings indeed!

It is however beyond me, why they decided to record the very limited use arpeggios, "rips up" and down and "fifth drops" but omitted half and whole tone trills.


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## Casiquire (May 27, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Sounds good. A little problematic with resonances going on 200-500hz area, especially on violins. I know it's part of what you get with doing sordinos though.
> 
> Legato seems very consistent compared to Berlin Symphonic Strings indeed!
> 
> It is however beyond me, why they decided to record the very limited use arpeggios, "rips up" and down and "fifth drops" but omitted half and whole tone trills.


I actually find the legato in the sordinos much better than in BSS. They don't always please me in BSS and I'm often using the Rapid one to get more definition. The fingered legato in the sordino version is really, really good.


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## prodigalson (May 27, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Sounds good. A little problematic with resonances going on 200-500hz area, especially on violins. I know it's part of what you get with doing sordinos though.
> 
> Legato seems very consistent compared to Berlin Symphonic Strings indeed!
> 
> It is however beyond me, why they decided to record the very limited use arpeggios, "rips up" and down and "fifth drops" but omitted half and whole tone trills.


Agreed. The arpeggios are def nice to have and inspired me pretty quickly but can't possibly imagine what possessed them to do rips up and fifth drops instead of trills! 

Interestingly, I used the Swells Long patch with legato enabled for the Viola melody here, not the standard legato patch. Its the one very limited (maybe only) example of something I like about the SINE player which is the ability to use legato transitions with all kinds of sustains.


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## Casiquire (May 27, 2022)

prodigalson said:


> Agreed. The arpeggios are def nice to have and inspired me pretty quickly but can't possibly imagine what possessed them to do rips up and fifth drops instead of trills!
> 
> Interestingly, I used the Swells Long patch with legato enabled for the Viola melody here, not the standard legato patch. Its the one very limited (maybe only) example of something I like about the SINE player which is the ability to use legato transitions with all kinds of sustains.


Those swells+legato are really incredible to play, both with and without strong vibrato


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## Mike Fox (May 27, 2022)

Anyone else experiencing DAW crashes with Sine?


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## dhmusic (May 27, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I actually find the legato in the sordinos much better than in BSS. They don't always please me in BSS and I'm often using the Rapid one to get more definition. The fingered legato in the sordino version is really, really good.


Totally agree. I kind of wish we could get Berlin Strings Main with legatos like these but I'd still be happy with BST even without legatos altogether tbh. So many brushes to paint with.


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## Casiquire (May 27, 2022)

dhmusic said:


> Totally agree. I kind of wish we could get Berlin Strings Main with legatos like these but I'd still be happy with BST even without legatos altogether tbh. So many brushes to paint with.


I really like the fingered transitions in the first violins of the mains so I'd love to see that same sound across the rest of the sections and in BSS too. But you're right, the full package is so comprehensive.


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## borisb2 (May 28, 2022)

By the way @OrchestralTools, I‘m sure we are seeing a StaffPad version of that lovely library any day?


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## borisb2 (May 28, 2022)

forgot to ask: what is the consensus for calling the library? BCSS? Or BerlinCSS? ;p


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## PaulieDC (May 28, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Wow, can't wait to try this out! Unfortunately SINE is still snail slow at downloading. Sometimes it works fast for a little while, then grinds to a halt. But in a couple of days I might have it all


As a software developer, here’s my biggest non-musical beef with SINE: *Lack of feedback in the UX*. Translation: when you click on something especially your libraries, nothing happens. The cursor doesn’t spin, there’s no progress bar, you have no idea what’s going on and it feels really annoying. Eventually learn to just click and wait. That is a bad User Experience (hence, “UX”… Mike Greene, another acronym for the VI-C user guide!). Seriously, it is up to us developers to put in a spinning cursor or a progress bar or a “please wait…” or _something_. You cannot warm up the software when you click and don’t know what on earth is going on.
On a plus side, they fixed the bug where you drag an instrument over to the top right articulation section and if you miss it locks everything up. How did that one get past user testing? 😀


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## PaulieDC (May 28, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Anyone else experiencing DAW crashes with Sine?


Are you getting this on the latest 1.10 version?


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## jbuhler (May 28, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Anyone else experiencing DAW crashes with Sine?


No Sine crashes since I updated to 1.10.


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## Casiquire (May 28, 2022)

I'm loving some of the improvements that have been made in the 1.10 version of SINE. The mic sliders are clearer, a lot of buttons provide feedback now (I can clearly tell when the "Store" and "My Licenses" tabs are still loading, for example.) The tabs do feel nice and snappy, except for the Store and Licenses tabs which are still slow to load but I don't access those while making music anyway.

But there were a couple crashes on my system. I can't exactly reproduce them so I'm not even sure what caused them. I remember one happened while samples were loading, which is a crash I haven't experienced for at least a couple SINE versions. I saw @Mike Fox mention crashes too. Was just curious if other people are experiencing it.


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## Mike Fox (May 28, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> Are you getting this on the latest 1.10 version?


Yep, latest version.


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## PaulieDC (May 29, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Yep, latest version.


If you're on Windows, definitely look in the Event Log for Applications right after the crash, should reveal what the culprit is. What DAW are you using?


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## Mike Fox (May 29, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> If you're on Windows, definitely look in the Event Log for Applications right after the crash, should reveal what the culprit is. What DAW are you using?


I appreciate the info, but I’m on OSX. 

Using Cubase.


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## Sunny Schramm (May 30, 2022)

Update available 👍

For the Violins II, the Basses and the Basses Specials.


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## holywilly (May 30, 2022)

Release note:

Hotfixes​(these updates will be shown in MyLicenses if your version needs them - if no updates are shown, you have the current version).

- Violins II: Enabling Legato on Portato Short would show an error message.

- Basses: Swells Long was erroneously named Medium.
- Basses: Expressive Sustains could not use legato.
- Bases Special: Loure Repetitions had "8th" in their name, despite playing quarter notes.

I think OT is on fire!


----------



## Sunny Schramm (May 30, 2022)




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## Vladimir Bulaev (May 30, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> Um... then why even come on here accusing people of no evidence, etc etc etc? Nobody on here is required to convince anyone of anything. Just sayin.


You're right! I shouldn't have written that. In fact, I will always need another string library until I die. I've come to my senses and I apologize for all my rude words that I left here earlier.


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## holywilly (May 30, 2022)

I like all OT’s walkthrough videos that showcase how their libraries can be used to sound convincing, and music contexts are inspiring.


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## FrozenIcicle (May 30, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Release note:
> 
> Hotfixes​
> 
> I think OT is on fire!


tbh, I think straight after release they patch stuff quickly, then never hear from them for a long time :(


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## Casiquire (May 30, 2022)

FrozenIcicle said:


> tbh, I think straight after release they patch stuff quickly, then never hear from them for a long time :(


That's becoming less and less true recently. They just updated BSS too.


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## FrozenIcicle (May 30, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> That's becoming less and less true recently. They just updated BSS too.


Didn't BSS come out a while ago? But yes, I hope it does become less true and we can finally see some tweaks for BB


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## holywilly (May 30, 2022)

I found the note releases (E2 and F2) are cut off for viola when using expressive vibrato type, this issue occurs after the hot fix update. 
Just report this issue to OT. 

I bet the next Berlin release will be SINE version of remaining Berlin catalogs, the FX and additional instruments department of winds and brass.


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## FrozenIcicle (May 30, 2022)

holywilly said:


> I found the note releases (E2 and F2) are cut off for viola when using expressive vibrato type, this issue occurs after the hot fix update.
> Just report this issue to OT.
> 
> I bet the next Berlin release will be SINE version of remaining Berlin catalogs, the FX and additional instruments department of winds and brass.


Yeh BB Bundle with mutes and stuff. Stuff I don't need but the bundle too good


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## Casiquire (May 30, 2022)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Didn't BSS come out a while ago? But yes, I hope it does become less true and we can finally see some tweaks for BB


A year or two ago I believe, and this is not the first update


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## jbuhler (May 30, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> A year or two ago I believe, and this is not the first update


I recall it was released in December 2020. And there have been two updates, I believe, one shortly after release and the one released last week. The library was always functional, however.


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## muziksculp (May 30, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I recall it was released in December 2020. And there have been two updates, I believe, one shortly after release and the one released last week. The library was always functional, however.


This latest update for BSS is imho. the real deal update, the other previous ones were marginal tweaks, I didn't feel they did much of an improvement.


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## jbuhler (May 30, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> This latest update for BSS is imho. the real deal update, the other previous ones were marginal tweaks, I didn't feel they did much of an improvement.


Agreed! I haven’t yet had a chance to work with the new version in a piece, since I’m working with smaller ensembles at the moment, but I’m like how it sounds and responds just noodling around.


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## holywilly (May 30, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> This latest update for BSS is imho. the real deal update, the other previous ones were marginal tweaks, I didn't feel they did much of an improvement.


The latest update actually brings improvement and efficiency to my workflow, I took less time editing, just record them live and get the jobs done!


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## novaburst (May 31, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Anyone else experiencing DAW crashes with Sine?


This is a bit of a hit and miss some times when going through a period of updates it maybe a good idea to change the dll file manually with the file you updated with, 

if you check your existing dll sometimes your left with one that is from a year or so,


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## OleJoergensen (Jun 2, 2022)

Im a bit confused. Maybe some who have bought Berlin strings con sordino can comment…
I listen to this walkthrough and it does not sound anything like OT’s walk through. Is OT’s walk though out of the box?


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## MaxOctane (Jun 3, 2022)

OleJoergensen said:


> Im a bit confused. Maybe some who have bought Berlin strings con sordino can comment…
> I listen to this walkthrough and it does not sound anything like OT’s walk through. Is OT’s walk though out of the box?



What difference are you hearing?


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## shawnsingh (Jun 3, 2022)

At least in the beginning for the sustain articulations, that video didn't modulate CC, it seems to be close to max. The OT walkthrough does modulate CC, you can see it visualized on the UI, the mod wheel at the bottom left next to the keyboard.


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## OleJoergensen (Jun 3, 2022)

MaxOctane said:


> What difference are you hearing?


The sustains sounds bad in this walk through (not meant to sound rude).


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## OleJoergensen (Jun 3, 2022)

shawnsingh said:


> At least in the beginning for the sustain articulations, that video didn't modulate CC, it seems to be close to max. The OT walkthrough does modulate CC, you can see it visualized on the UI, the mod wheel at the bottom left next to the keyboard.


Thank you, that explains it.


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## novaburst (Jun 3, 2022)

there are some string library's that have a natural swell, and you can get away with using the mod wheel,


shawnsingh said:


> At least in the beginning for the sustain articulations, that video didn't modulate CC, it seems to be close to max. The OT walkthrough does modulate CC, you can see it visualized on the UI, the mod wheel at the bottom left next to the keyboard.


for some patches the MW is a must


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## samphony (Jun 3, 2022)

Sunny Schramm said:


> What's new?​Version: v1.1.0​*Changes in this version:*
> 
> 
> SINEplayer 1.1.0 brings a UI refresh across most areas of SINEplayer and introduces some new legato options used by upcoming content.
> ...


It’s getting better with every update. The UI updates are long overdue and the speed it loads on my m1max is mind bending. 

I hope to see more UX refinements in future updates.


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## aaronnt1 (Jun 3, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> It is however beyond me, why they decided to record the very limited use arpeggios, "rips up" and down and "fifth drops" *but omitted half and whole tone trills.*


 I can't think of any good reason why they would leave out an absolutely essential staple such as trills which I'm sure would have sounded wonderful. Very odd decision. Let's hope they come in later.


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## Casiquire (Jun 3, 2022)

OleJoergensen said:


> The sustains sounds bad in this walk through (not meant to sound rude).


The flaw of third party walkthrough videos is you never know how familiar they are with a library. That's why I'm not as devoted to third party walkthroughs as a lot of the other people on this forum who seem to trust them exclusively. I've seen so many that just leave the modwheel maxed out and then un-idiomatically play random notes outside the most common and best-sounding ranges of the instruments. I am not commenting on the specific video you posted; I'm more just saying to always take walkthrough videos, official or not, with a grain of salt and if they sound really bad somewhere and really good somewhere else, there might be more to the library than meets the eye


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## holywilly (Jun 3, 2022)

OT’s official walkthrough videos are also a good place to learn the libraries, all of their videos sound convincing to me.


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## OleJoergensen (Jun 3, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> The flaw of third party walkthrough videos is you never know how familiar they are with a library. That's why I'm not as devoted to third party walkthroughs as a lot of the other people on this forum who seem to trust them exclusively. I've seen so many that just leave the modwheel maxed out and then un-idiomatically play random notes outside the most common and best-sounding ranges of the instruments. I am not commenting on the specific video you posted; I'm more just saying to always take walkthrough videos, official or not, with a grain of salt and if they sound really bad somewhere and really good somewhere else, there might be more to the library than meets the eye


Thank you for explaining, it makes sense. A friend told that OT also knows how to get the best out of the library.


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## Casiquire (Jun 3, 2022)

OleJoergensen said:


> Thank you for explaining, it makes sense. A friend told that OT also knows how to get the best out of the library.


There's truth to that too! I think it's equally unwise to only watch official walkthroughs or demos, because they often do only show you the good stuff. If only we could demo everything


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## FrozenIcicle (Jun 3, 2022)

OleJoergensen said:


> Thank you for explaining, it makes sense. A friend told that OT also knows how to get the best out of the library.


Most devs know cause they knows how they sampled and the intended purpose of the sample. 

If I could remember the midi range of velocities for every library then I wouldn’t be pretending changing 60 to 65 velocity is going to change the sample lol


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## Lukas (Jun 3, 2022)

OleJoergensen said:


> I listen to this walkthrough and it does not sound anything like OT’s walk through. Is OT’s walk though out of the box?


You should never play orchestral samples without making use of dynamics. This walkthrough is a really great example of how not to play orchestral instruments.



OleJoergensen said:


> A friend told that OT also knows how to get the best out of the library.


OT knows how orchestral instruments work. That helps when you play them.


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## Mike Fox (Jun 3, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I've seen so many that just leave the modwheel maxed out and then un-idiomatically play random notes outside the most common and best-sounding ranges of the instruments.


Those are my favorite ones!


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## OleJoergensen (Jun 6, 2022)

Can the Louré articulation be synced to tempo or do they have there own tempo?
I can see the tempo changed from the host in SINE but it seems not to affect the tempo of the Louré articulation.

A short first try of the library using Divissi (Tranpose trick). Added reverb, E.Q. etc.

View attachment Berlin con sordino TEST- 2022-MP3.mp3


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## MaxOctane (Jun 7, 2022)

Intro pricing ends in a couple of days. Any more testimonials from people who've bought it?


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## Loerpert (Jun 7, 2022)

MaxOctane said:


> Intro pricing ends in a couple of days. Any more testimonials from people who've bought it?


Yeah I pulled the trigger eventually 2 days ago. I'm actually happy that I did. The legato's are comparable to Berlin Strings and the sound is wonderful. Basically got SFX for free too.


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## muziksculp (Jun 8, 2022)




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## FrozenIcicle (Jun 8, 2022)

MaxOctane said:


> Intro pricing ends in a couple of days. Any more testimonials from people who've bought it?


Reluctantly I bought it cause the price is just too good (well it's at a competitive price now) and they hardly have sales. I already have BS so I got a further discount.

BCS and BSS is incredible and worth it, I figured the special bows and sfx is a bonus and I've already found use that I wouldn't have thought of before.

Of course, this is OT and the quality is great and hall sound all sync together so welcome to the ecosystem.

Can Sine be better and can they fix bugs/samples, yes but hopefully they can do it sooner rather than later


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## Trash Panda (Jun 8, 2022)

MaxOctane said:


> Intro pricing ends in a couple of days. Any more testimonials from people who've bought it?


I would never pay $3k to own the entire Berlin Strings line at full price. That’s just crazy town. 

Now the entire line at the price of Berlin Strings Main + Special Bows 2? That’s one hell of a deal. 

I’ve always given OT grief for being overpriced, but given the breath and depth of what’s on offer, I think the intro price is fair for the bundle.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jun 8, 2022)

Already owning Berlin Strings and BSS, I don’t know if there’s enough value for me in first chairs, special bows, SFX, and con sord. Mainly because they all seem special case articulations - and that’s a lot of storage space to take up for stuff I probably will only use once in a while. Not sure how others feel about frequency of use of those libraries.


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## lettucehat (Jun 8, 2022)

FrozenIcicle said:


> Reluctantly I bought it cause the price is just too good (well it's at a competitive price now) and they hardly have sales. I already have BS so I got a further discount.
> 
> BCS and BSS is incredible and worth it, I figured the special bows and sfx is a bonus and I've already found use that I wouldn't have thought of before.
> 
> ...


May I ask what your upgrade cost as someone who owned only Berlin Strings?


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## Vik (Jun 9, 2022)

lettucehat said:


> May I ask what your upgrade cost as someone who owned only Berlin Strings?


I'm also curios about that, @OrchestralTools.
I have checked my price for the Con Sord library, and even if I have Berlin Strings + First Chairs and both expansions (and Nocturne), the price I get is the same as the normal offer.


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## Sunny Schramm (Jun 9, 2022)

Next Update is ready to download 👍


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## Rudianos (Jun 9, 2022)

Vik said:


> I'm also curios about that, @OrchestralTools.
> I have checked my price for the Con Sord library, and even if I have Berlin Strings + First Chairs and both expansions (and Nocturne), the price I get is the same as the normal offer.


there is no cross grading price as far as I know. Just normal intro price and the phenom Strings Bundle price.


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## Casiquire (Jun 9, 2022)

Sunny Schramm said:


> Next Update is ready to download 👍


I haven't checked SINE yet but I think this might be the change log






Berlin Con Sordino Strings - Collection Notes - Orchestral Tools Helpdesk


Hotfixes (these updates will be shown in MyLicenses if your version needs them - if no updates are shown, you have the current version). - Violins I and II: Imp




orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com





OT is stepping it up lately, I think


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## MaxOctane (Jun 9, 2022)




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## jbuhler (Jun 9, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I haven't checked SINE yet but I think this might be the change log
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They did say earlier this year that they were going to. It's nice to see. I would still like to see more routine maintenance on older libraries though.


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## Germain B (Jun 9, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I haven't checked SINE yet but I think this might be the change log


I see this update is only for Violins I & II.
Basses were updated before.


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## ism (Jun 9, 2022)

MaxOctane said:


>




Skimmed this quickly, it's very good. And had to laugh at this bit:

"I'm just desperate for someone to ask me to score a .. nature documentary or something like that so I can use that [patch]"

... which really does suggest that this is my kind of library.  

(fetishization of glacier metaphors notwithstanding)


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## Casiquire (Jun 9, 2022)

Germain B said:


> I see this update is only for Violins I & II.
> Basses were updated before.


That was my impression too, though it looks like the scattered updates post-release are cumulative, like one update now.


jbuhler said:


> They did say earlier this year that they were going to. It's nice to see. I would still like to see more routine maintenance on older libraries though.


I am a skeptic; they did SAY they'd do better library updates but it doesn't mean anything to me until I can see it for myself!


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## dzilizzi (Jun 9, 2022)

Vik said:


> I'm also curios about that, @OrchestralTools.
> I have checked my price for the Con Sord library, and even if I have Berlin Strings + First Chairs and both expansions (and Nocturne), the price I get is the same as the normal offer.


Do you have the Sine version? If you have the Kontakt version, you need to get the free "upgrade" to Sine before it will show the "complete my bundle" price. There is no discount unless you complete the bundle.


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## Vik (Jun 9, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Do you have the Sine version? If you have the Kontakt version, you need to get the free "upgrade" to Sine before it will show the "complete my bundle" price. There is no discount unless you complete the bundle.


Thanks – I do get a discount if I buy the full bundle, but had the (probably false) impression that there was a special discount for BS owners who wanted the Con Sordiono library. IIRR there was such a discount for BS owners who wanted Berlin Symphpnic Strings... I did send en email to OT about it back then, but got a reply only after the discount had expired. I tried the same thing now, and again with np success, so I assume there's no such discount this time,which is brilliant for my bank account.


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## Casiquire (Jun 9, 2022)

Vik said:


> Thanks – I do get a discount if I buy the full bundle, but had the (probavly false) impression that there was a special discount for BS owners who wanted the Con Sordiono library. IIRR there was such a discount for BS owners who wanted Berlin Symphpnic Strings... I did send en email to OT about it back then, but got a reply only after the discount had expired. I tried the same thing now, and again with np success, so I assume there's no such discount this time,which is brilliant for my bank account.


You may have had that impression from users who owned enough libraries that the cost of finishing the collection wound up cheaper than the cost of BCSS. So there is some kind of loyalty discount off the cost of it. Just only as part of the bundle, unfortunately


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## Jett Hitt (Jun 9, 2022)

The discount is pretty amazing. 142€ per library. I suspect they will never be cheaper.


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## axb312 (Jun 9, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Release note:
> 
> Hotfixes​(these updates will be shown in MyLicenses if your version needs them - if no updates are shown, you have the current version).
> 
> ...


Really? Shouldn't these bugs have been found during their "extensive" QA process?


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## lettucehat (Jun 9, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> The discount is pretty amazing. 142€ per library. I suspect they will never be cheaper.


It's a great (edit: no, unbelievable) way to go from having basically none of the libraries to all of them, but because of the sordino library being new I think it's not a particularly forgiving upgrade path (still nice if you truly want everything in it). I think if you have everything but BCSS you are basically getting it 50% off, which is great, but I think the older libraries are weighted very little in the formula.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 9, 2022)

Vik said:


> Thanks – I do get a discount if I buy the full bundle, but had the (probavly false) impression that there was a special discount for BS owners who wanted the Con Sordiono library. IIRR there was such a discount for BS owners who wanted Berlin Symphpnic Strings... I did send en email to OT about it back then, but got a reply only after the discount had expired. I tried the same thing now, and again with np success, so I assume there's no such discount this time,which is brilliant for my bank account.


Ah yes, the discount that sucked me into BSS. Yes, unfortunately, no extra discount.


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## Vik (Jun 10, 2022)

I finally got a reply from them – again, after the offer had expired. I musyt have written hundreds of legato comments here over the years... maybe the fear that I'm a member of the Legato Legionnairres and will start posting critical comments about theiur legatos if I buy these libs. 
But – no big deal, I have other string libraries, and don't like those 'rich man's sales; I generally prefer the kind of sales that doesn't require that we have to buy more stuff than we need. 

Besides, it's possible to buy single instruments from OT, which I appreciate. Btw, does any of you know how this works – can one download the whole library once one has bought single sections which equals or exceeds the cost of the whole library?


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## Raphioli (Jun 10, 2022)

Regarding legatos, I couldn't spot any weaknesses from the various demos and walkthroughs (OT's as well as third parties) when it comes to their con sordino strings.
Portamento also sounded good in one of the live streams posted on this thread where I was able to listen to it exposed(only though only a few intervals).
I can only base my impression on demos and walkthroughs I've already seen, but I think they did a good job.

What ever they did with their con sordino library, it would be nice if they would go back to Teldex and re-sample the legatos/portamentos for their original BS library.


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## MaxOctane (Jun 10, 2022)

Raphioli said:


> What ever they did with their con sordino library, it would be nice if they would go back to Teldex and re-sample the legatos/portamentos for their original BS library.


I don't think it would ever sound right, re-recording legatos after so many years.


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## Raphioli (Jun 10, 2022)

MaxOctane said:


> I don't think it would ever sound right, re-recording legatos after so many years.


I had "recording the sustain part as well" in mind too, not just the transition, since I get what you mean.
But then, maybe the timbre of the sustain (and legatos) would sound off compared to the other articulations(?). I dunno

It would be nice if they could manage it though


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## Casiquire (Jun 10, 2022)

Raphioli said:


> I had "recording the sustain part as well" in mind too, not just the transition, since I get what you mean.
> But then, maybe the timbre of the sustain (and legatos) would sound off compared to the other articulations(?). I dunno
> 
> It would be nice if they could manage it though


To my ears, the Fingered legato in the first violins matches pretty well. I wish we had that for the rest of the sections. I don't take much issue with the cello or bass legatos either, so it's just the seconds and violas I'd like to see touched up.

Didn't SINE just get a legato update? I'm not using the strings in SINE yet, I wonder if the update helps any


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## muziksculp (Jun 13, 2022)




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## Trash Panda (Jun 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>



@Daniel James should be on the next Soulsborne project.


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## muziksculp (Jun 13, 2022)




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## Kabraxis (Oct 1, 2022)

Is it possible to do slow Portamento bends with this library? I tried some tricks but couldn't nail it.


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## Casiquire (Oct 1, 2022)

Kabraxis said:


> Is it possible to do slow Portamento bends with this library? I tried some tricks but couldn't nail it.


The portamento is only recorded at one speed. My suggestion is to have something like Melodyne on hand so you can stretch transitions a little more


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## Germain B (Nov 17, 2022)

Just noticed an update for the violas. Don't know when it was released.
Nothing on the HelpDesk about it.


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## Sunny Schramm (Nov 17, 2022)

Germain B said:


> Just noticed an update for the violas. Don't know when it was released.
> Nothing on the HelpDesk about it.


Nothing here - must be an older one. But thx for sharing.


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