# TIME SENSITIVE: Spitfire is having a 40% sale tomorrow. Which libraries are really worth?



## fredmbarros (Feb 19, 2020)

So, the sale is only tomorrow, but for 40% off, which Spitfire libraries are worth?
Especially interested in strings l, woodwinds and orchestra in general.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 19, 2020)

BBCSO, I personally love it.


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## artomatic (Feb 19, 2020)

"40% Off Selected Libraries"


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## Gauss (Feb 19, 2020)

Spitfire Chamber Strings
Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions


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## pawelmorytko (Feb 19, 2020)

Might grab LCO Textures if it's on offer, really want to try a Spitfire EVO library


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## dzilizzi (Feb 19, 2020)

Which selected libraries? Not sure if BBCSO will be on sale this soon for that much off. 

Probably the spring sale at the earliest.


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## jononotbono (Feb 19, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> BBCSO, I personally love it.



How many dynamic layers do the instruments generally have? I haven’t bought this yet.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 19, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> How many dynamic layers do the instruments generally have? I haven’t bought this yet.



I'm not 100% sure, but I'd say only a few. I'm not one to care to much about those details, if the library sounds good, I use it; not so much for epic pieces, but for more intimate-type tracks (the brass is not that powerful sounding). A lot of users also don't like the SF Player, but to me it suits my workflow (it's idiot proof).


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## Jim Martin (Feb 19, 2020)

Hummm, "Selected" libraries. Why do I have a feeling anything mentioned on this thread won't be available at the 40% price cut


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## Mikro93 (Feb 19, 2020)

Jim Martin said:


> Hummm, "Selected" libraries. Why do I have a feeling anything mentioned on this thread won't be available at the 40% price cut



Albion ONE

There you go, you might be wrong, now


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## jononotbono (Feb 19, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I'm not 100% sure, but I'd say only a few. I'm not one to care to much about those details, if the library sounds good, I use it; not so much for epic pieces, but for more intimate-type tracks (the brass is not that powerful sounding). A lot of users also don't like the SF Player, but to me it suits my workflow (it's idiot proof).



I do care about this kind of thing because it gives the instruments much more dynamic range. When there are few dynamic layers as in 2 or just 1 then simply faking it by making the volume go louder doesn’t simulate what happens in real life and that’s the timbre getting brighter when the instrument gets louder. But sure, if something sounds good, it is good. I'm just loving 5 dynamic layers in JXL Brass and it's made me think how much better everything would be if this was the case for everything I own!


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## BezO (Feb 19, 2020)

Almost hoping nothing still on my wish list goes on sale.

OACE
HZ Strings
HZ Perc Pro
SCS


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## jbuhler (Feb 19, 2020)

Is this the equivalent of the Apex sale that they've done for the past couple of years?


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## jbuhler (Feb 19, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I do care about this kind of thing because it gives the instruments much more dynamic range. When there are few dynamic layers as in 2 or just 1 then simply faking it by making the volume go louder doesn’t simulate what happens in real life and that’s the timbre getting brighter when the instrument gets louder. But sure, if something sounds good, it is good. I'm just loving 5 dynamic layers in JXL Brass and it's made me think how much better everything would be if this was the case for everything I own!


I find it really depends. Generally, more dynamic layers is good, but sometimes it's not. Crossing layers can be bumpy. Or the phase alignment process needed to make transitions less bumpy can make the samples less vibrant. And too many dynamic layers can make the usable range of each layer too narrow on the CC to use effectively (so it's nice that JXL lets you choose which and how many dynamic layers you want). Personally I find that I want more dynamic layers on shorts than longs, because it seems like however many dynamic layers there are I always find the jumps between them very noticeable in the shorts, and I inevitably want a short between that falls between two layers I have...


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## Scamper (Feb 19, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Is this the equivalent of the Apex sale that they've done for the past couple of years?



Such a sudden and short sale is unusual, but the Apex sale was a bit different with 50% off for just one product. So, I'm curious to see what the selection of libraries in this sale will be.


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## Rob Elliott (Feb 19, 2020)

regarding 'selected'. Look at what is 1-2+ old or slow sellers (not popular) - that will likely be the 'list'. I have a couple 'on the fence' ones for SF. We'll see how I feel tomorrow. I don't know if this royalties thingy has me not as excited about new releases or sales but I will say I take a MUCH harder look at what I currently have on my drives before I spring for more. Sadly, I am feeling more buyer's remorse than ever before. :(


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## CT (Feb 19, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> How many dynamic layers do the instruments generally have? I haven’t bought this yet.



The dynamic range of the standard articulations through velocity/crossfade is very "classical" and certainly narrow compared to something like the Junkie brass. For the extremes at the top and bottom, you'd turn to specific articulations like flautando or cuivre. It's the only gripe I have about the library, but most of the time it's a non-issue.


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## Jdiggity1 (Feb 19, 2020)

I'm hoping for a THePETEBOX revival


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## kgdrum (Feb 19, 2020)

Am I the only Spitfire customer who’s gotten tired of the marketing hype?
Great you’re having a sale on select libraries for 1 day. Using Spitfires continual marketing teases to build up post counts on threads like this one & they will not tell us which libraries will actually be on sale.
For me it’s gotten beyond silly,if they’re having a sale I’d prefer they say what’s actually on sale,am I alone on this?


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## reutunes (Feb 19, 2020)

*PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT : *These discounts are running for just 24 hours, but don't be fooled by these "time sensitive" offers. This is marketing 101 to rush you into a purchase. If they can afford to knock 40% off once, they'll do it again in the future.


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## jbuhler (Feb 19, 2020)

miket said:


> The dynamic range of the standard articulations through velocity/crossfade is very "classical" and certainly narrow compared to something like the Junkie brass. For the extremes at the top and bottom, you'd turn to specific articulations like flautando or cuivre. It's the only gripe I have about the library, but most of the time it's a non-issue.


I don't have BBCSO, and I know there have been a lot of complaints about the horns at the upper dynamics, but from examples posted some of the reported issues seem related at least in part to the style of performance, where the sound is very controlled even at the highest dynamic layer, and the sound struck me from the start as more symphonic than cinematic, at least with the sustains.


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## EwigWanderer (Feb 19, 2020)

reutunes said:


> *PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT : *These discounts are running for just 24 hours, but don't be fooled by these "time sensitive" offers. This is marketing 101 to rush you into a purchase. If they can afford to knock 40% off once, they'll do it again in the future.



Amen!


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## jbuhler (Feb 19, 2020)

reutunes said:


> These discounts will run for just 24 hours, but don't be fooled by these "time sensitive" offers. This is marketing 101 to rush you into a purchase. If they can afford to knock 40% off once, they'll do it again in the future.


At this point we expect to be able to buy them in May and December Wish List sales at 40% off, so it's more like this is another opportunity to buy. The timing on this sale is new, as far as I'm aware. I checked and the Apex sale happened in March last year, and that one, like the year before, was unusual in offering the library at 50% off. But I see the point of these sales as forcing decision points. It's what's annoying about it but it also can be clarifying to you about whether a library at this price makes sense.


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## Stringtree (Feb 19, 2020)

I would rush into Spitfire Chamber Strings as a purchase. Here in the States, we have a period of time when tax refunds (block payments back to the responsible taxpayer) are disbursed, usually as a direct bank deposit. So this $699 library that I've always admired will be available for $420. 

Nothing special at all about that particular number, but it is around what a Christmas wishlist would provide in terms of a discount. The money I pocket might be spent on nothing special.

Here's hoping. It may derail all of my other plans for new acquisitions, but there's no doubt I've always wanted that sweet, slim string ensemble. If it's Henson's favorite, that means something too. I think Tundra and Chamber Strings are a source of ebullience for him. 

On the other hand, it may be a bargain bin of cast-offs. Some of which I already have. 

But not being strictly a fanboy, you never know, do you? This last Christmas hamper was filled with some awesome shizzle. Mallets for pence. Findon for nearly free. Glass and Steel. 

What do you guys think?

Greg


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## easyrider (Feb 19, 2020)

I just bought SCS for 40% off on Jan 1 2020....


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## Reid Rosefelt (Feb 19, 2020)

reutunes said:


> *PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT : *These discounts are running for just 24 hours, but don't be fooled by these "time sensitive" offers. This is marketing 101 to rush you into a purchase. If they can afford to knock 40% off once, they'll do it again in the future.


Nonsense! This once-in-a-lifetime opportunity won't come again until early May, during the Spitfire summer Wish List. That's 3 months away!


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## JohnG (Feb 19, 2020)

I like a lot of Spitfire; hard to advise but maybe HZ strings and some of the more boutique offerings? In other words, for me, with a lot of great libraries already, it has to do something besides "regular."

The other way to choose is to listen to Andy Blaney's demos although, by doing that, one puts one's financial solvency at risk.


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## fredmbarros (Feb 19, 2020)

At first I thought it was a “sitewide sale”, then someone here posted that it was for only some libraries.

Totally agree that it’s ridiculous to leave uns hanging about it, but I’m in need of a pro library (I only have freebies and cheap ones) for some mockups - I don’t work as a composer, I do musicological work, so my needs are a bit different from you guys who need a lot of libraries and all -, and Spitfire is usually well regarded, so it looks like a good opportunity. 

So, the ones that would interest me are that string quartet one, the chamber and the solo strings and woodwinds. A whole orchestral library could be good too if for a good price. Are any of these or libraries that offer all of some of these things any good for a 40% discount?


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## Stringtree (Feb 19, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> I do musicological work, so my needs are a bit different from you guys who need a lot of libraries and all -, and Spitfire is usually well regarded, so it looks like a good opportunity.



fredmbarros, there are many Spitfire libraries that don't break out the flutes or the trumpets, but offer patches like "high woodwinds" and "high brass" as a matter of convenience for sketching; there are octave patches that really don't help when illustrating conventional orchestration.

If I'm going to grow as a composer, I need discrete solo instruments, a2 or a3 sections so that I can play these score books in and learn something. Their more detailed (expensive) libraries like Spitfire Symphonic Strings, Symphonic Brass, and Symphonic Woodwinds do this and sound like a concert hall. So do the Studio series, but they have a particular sound in the Decca-tree versions that give you no opportunity to shape the microphone mix. 

I want to be able to play Mozart, Brahms, Ravel, Vaughn Williams. What do you do if you have a part for a single horn and all you have is Albion sections? 

Granularity. Some of the Spitfire libraries have it and some mash together a number of related elements and offer section patches. 

You're on the right track. There's just a lot to figure out in terms of what each library offers. I've had violas only this year that make me smile. 

Greg


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## JohnG (Feb 19, 2020)

Hi Fred,

IDK what others might think but I have not heard such great results from anyone's string quartet libraries. By contrast, Spitfire's Chamber Strings library seems to be their most acclaimed of all. Moreover, it sports a lot of articulations, including some they don't even include in their flagship Symphonic Strings.

However, of course it doesn't have winds or brass. Maybe, for musicological work, Chamber Strings plus the BBC orchestra library? Or just the BBC? That one has section leader samples, I believe, which might help in a pinch.

Good luck!

John


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## jononotbono (Feb 19, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I find it really depends. Generally, more dynamic layers is good, but sometimes it's not. Crossing layers can be bumpy. Or the phase alignment process needed to make transitions less bumpy can make the samples less vibrant. And too many dynamic layers can make the usable range of each layer too narrow on the CC to use effectively (so it's nice that JXL lets you choose which and how many dynamic layers you want). Personally I find that I want more dynamic layers on shorts than longs, because it seems like however many dynamic layers there are I always find the jumps between them very noticeable in the shorts, and I inevitably want a short between that falls between two layers I have...





miket said:


> The dynamic range of the standard articulations through velocity/crossfade is very "classical" and certainly narrow compared to something like the Junkie brass. For the extremes at the top and bottom, you'd turn to specific articulations like flautando or cuivre. It's the only gripe I have about the library, but most of the time it's a non-issue.



Hopefully we can all agree that having more than 1 dynamic layer is a good thing. Otherwise I don't think I can continue talking here.


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## cqd (Feb 19, 2020)

kgdrum said:


> Am I the only Spitfire customer who’s gotten tired of the marketing hype?
> Great you’re having a sale on select libraries for 1 day. Using Spitfires continual marketing teases to build up post counts on threads like this one they will not tell us which libraries will actually be on sale.
> For me it’s gotten beyond silly,if they’re having a sale I’d prefer they say what’s actually on sale,am I alone on this?



No..I'm totally over spitfire and their marketing..


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## easyrider (Feb 19, 2020)

cqd said:


> No..I'm totally over spitfire and their marketing..



until checkout tomorrow...


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## cqd (Feb 19, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Hopefully we can all agree that having more than 1 dynamic layer is a good thing. Otherwise I don't think I can continue talking here.



No.. two is fine by all accounts.. p..mf.. crossfade in the middle.. sorted..


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## Jdiggity1 (Feb 19, 2020)

We're _all _tired of Spitfire and their marketing...
until we see a thread about a 40% off sale and think "I best check that out.."


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## jononotbono (Feb 19, 2020)

cqd said:


> No.. two is fine by all accounts.. p..mf.. crossfade in the middle.. sorted..



Ah yes. Glad pp, mp, f and ff are sorted too with this deep approach! Anyway, I'll pickup BBCSO if it's 40% off.


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## JohnG (Feb 19, 2020)

cqd said:


> No.. two is fine by all accounts.. p..mf.. crossfade in the middle.. sorted..



It's funny you would write that -- if you go back in time there wasn't much besides "loud," "soft," "slow," and "fast." Some scores from the olden days didn't even specify instrumentation, let alone tempos or dynamics.


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## Fleer (Feb 19, 2020)

If I remember well, the Tundra Apex sale was 50% off at least. Anyway, I jumped at that one. Wouldn’t mind getting OACE the same way. Or BHCT. Or HZ Strings. Maybe.


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## easyrider (Feb 19, 2020)

40% off Albion Collection.....not going to happen


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## 2chris (Feb 19, 2020)

I'm tempted by HZ Stings and Albion Neo. Those are the ones on my radar for this year as possible purchases.


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## Fleer (Feb 19, 2020)

Very happy with BBCSO and Albion NEO myself. Maybe there’s a way we could get in on that special Aperture Strings library.


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## CT (Feb 19, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Hopefully we can all agree that having more than 1 dynamic layer is a good thing. Otherwise I don't think I can continue talking here.



Of course, where it's sensible. The articulations I mentioned (cuivre and flautando), which are usually tied to a particular dynamic, are recorded only at the one that they most naturally occur at. No ppp cuivre horns or ffff flautando strings here, I'm afraid. More cut corners from Spitfire.


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## jbuhler (Feb 19, 2020)

Fleer said:


> If I remember well, the Tundra Apex sale was 50% off at least. Anyway, I jumped at that one. Wouldn’t mind getting OACE the same way. Or BHCT. Or HZ Strings. Maybe.


Yes, Tundra was 50% for Apex sale, and SCS was 50% on last year's Apex sale.


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## BezO (Feb 19, 2020)

Still disappointed I didn't grab SCS @ 50% off.


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## jbuhler (Feb 19, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> At first I thought it was a “sitewide sale”, then someone here posted that it was for only some libraries.
> 
> Totally agree that it’s ridiculous to leave uns hanging about it, but I’m in need of a pro library (I only have freebies and cheap ones) for some mockups - I don’t work as a composer, I do musicological work, so my needs are a bit different from you guys who need a lot of libraries and all -, and Spitfire is usually well regarded, so it looks like a good opportunity.
> 
> So, the ones that would interest me are that string quartet one, the chamber and the solo strings and woodwinds. A whole orchestral library could be good too if for a good price. Are any of these or libraries that offer all of some of these things any good for a 40% discount?


It depends on what you are trying to do. Mock-up music that lacks recordings? I've done a bit of this. It will depend on the era and the ensemble. String quartets, trios and such are hard. You'll have better luck with works that also feature piano that can cover issues in the strings. Samples are not always well suited to older orchestral idioms. Except maybe BBCSO, Spitfire is also inflected toward the cinematic and other media music. Orchestral Tools' Berlin series is a bit more in the direction of concert music and, though I haven't worked with them much, VSL seems to also be more geared toward concert music. If you are looking for woodwinds for chamber music, you'll likely want to find some solo instruments that are more suitable for that than instruments that are parts of sets designed for orchestral playing.


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## Fleer (Feb 19, 2020)

BezO said:


> Still disappointed I didn't grab SCS @ 50% off.


+1


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## dpasdernick (Feb 19, 2020)

Another String library that you can't resell if you don't like it? 

I just bought a Korg Wavestate. 

Who's the clever boy then eh?


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## pinki (Feb 19, 2020)

kgdrum said:


> Am I the only Spitfire customer who’s gotten tired of the marketing hype?
> Great you’re having a sale on select libraries for 1 day. Using Spitfires continual marketing teases to build up post counts on threads like this one they will not tell us which libraries will actually be on sale.
> For me it’s gotten beyond silly,if they’re having a sale I’d prefer they say what’s actually on sale,am I alone on this?



You are not alone at all! I dumped Spitfire a long time ago because of that public school over hyped marketing..yuk, makes me run a mile


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## ptram (Feb 19, 2020)

kgdrum said:


> Am I the only Spitfire customer who’s gotten tired of the marketing hype?


Not me! The art of composing is the art of creating tension to be resolved into relaxation. As you see, they just created tension!

Paolo


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## ptram (Feb 19, 2020)

reutunes said:


> If they can afford to knock 40% off once, they'll do it again in the future.


Unless they discontinue it just before you decide you absolutely need it… :(

Paolo


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## Reid Rosefelt (Feb 19, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, Tundra was 50% for Apex sale, and SCS was 50% on last year's Apex sale.


And Albion ONE was 50% off last summer for a limited time.


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## StillLife (Feb 19, 2020)

I have been such a good client to them the last 7(?) Sales that I might be left out of this sale because I just might own the selected libraries they'll offer already....


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## pinki (Feb 19, 2020)

ptram said:


> Not me! The art of composing is the art of creating tension to be resolved into relaxation. As you see, they just created tension!
> 
> Paolo


One way of composing is the art of composing using the art of creating tension. There are other ways of marketing too.


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## Alex Fraser (Feb 19, 2020)

If you’re that troubled about the marketing, it only takes a minute to flush Spitfires tentacles from your inbox and social media. 

Sure, they market hard but we all enjoy the continued freebies, new products and content. We can’t have one without the other. (Shrugs)


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## CT (Feb 19, 2020)

The saying is "death and taxes," but I'm optimistic enough to think that will eventually be retired, and we'll only be left with "petulant griping on VI-Control" as a universal certainty.


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## Fleer (Feb 19, 2020)

@AlexFraser
Absolutely. Just think of that wonderful LABS series. Entirely free.


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## Paul Cardon (Feb 19, 2020)

Hey everyone! We're only 8000 posts away from beating out BBCSO for the longest thread on VI-C. Keep going!!


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## easyrider (Feb 19, 2020)

pinki said:


> You are not alone at all! I dumped Spitfire a long time ago because of that public school over hyped marketing..yuk, makes me run a mile



SCS sounds great though....Regardless....Cut your nose off etc....

In the end its all about the music  and price


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## dzilizzi (Feb 19, 2020)

StillLife said:


> I have been such a good client to them the last 7(?) Sales that I might be left out of this sale because I just might own the selected libraries they'll offer already....


This!


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## kgdrum (Feb 19, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> If you’re that troubled about the marketing, it only takes a minute to flush Spitfires tentacles from your inbox and social media.



I like Spitfie as a company and really like lots of the Spitfire product line.
For me it’s not a matter of being troubled by marketing as much as stating you’re having a sale on select products for 1 day but you don’t tell people what the select products on sale for 1 day are going to be.
Imo this is a simple bit of info that for me would make this approach to a sale way more palatable.


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## StillLife (Feb 19, 2020)

Marketing is just that: marketing. Complaining about marketing is like complaining about time. Wasn't it the great Gandalf who said "All we have to decide is what to do with the marketing that has been presented to us.'?


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## lgchess2 (Feb 20, 2020)

Not sure why anyone would have an issue with the heads up on a 40% off sale. 
Would you prefer it was kept a secret?


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## EwigWanderer (Feb 20, 2020)

It's almost noon here. Waiting is frustrating. I'm pretty sure I won't buy anything, but I have my credit card ready


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## Jdiggity1 (Feb 20, 2020)

StillLife said:


> Wasn't it the great Gandalf who said "All we have to decide is what to do with the marketing that has been presented to us.'?


Yep.


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## Mikro93 (Feb 20, 2020)

Me right now: "I'm kind of sick of that Spitfire Audio marketing too, they're right. Plus, the Wish List is mostly 40% off, and it happens twice a year. I got Paul's Christmas Hamper last time and did not even start to use it to its full potential. Also, I'm broke."

My keyboard:


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## TomislavEP (Feb 20, 2020)

Since 2015., I've purchased a dozen Spitfire Audio libraries and I'm using all of them extensively. Though I'm frequently inspired by Spitfire's work and the characteristic sound and feel of their libraries, I don't care much about the bullying marketing approach, which is more and more evident as time passes by. Often I find it difficult to link the quality of their products and this attitude; considering the first fact, they could afford themselves to be more moderate and "modest" in presenting and promoting their products, like they were in the past if the memory serves me.

Most of Spitfire's libraries are sadly out of reach for my budget, so I heavily depend on discounts. However, even with one, I still always have to carefully plan every purchase so I'm not too keen on these flash sales. The one product I still don't own and which I think could be beneficial to my work in the long run is "Chamber Evolutions". But even with the discount, this still represents an unexpecting and unscheduled expense for me, so I might have to wait for the next major sale.


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## CT (Feb 20, 2020)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Yep.



And don't forget Saruman's ominous warning. "Concealed within their fortress, the Spitfire marketing team sees all. Their gaze pierces cloud, shadow, earth, and... flesh."


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## Mikro93 (Feb 20, 2020)

Aaaaaaaaand we're live.

SSS, LCO Textures, Kepler Orchestra, HZ Percs and Percs Pro, Ambient guitar, and apparently a bundle with all that?

EDIT: doesn't seem to work as of now.


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## StillLife (Feb 20, 2020)

Ah, ambient guitars was the one I was hoping for!


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## Mikro93 (Feb 20, 2020)

EDIT2: It's off the website now. It'll be back, I'm sure


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## StillLife (Feb 20, 2020)

Mikro93 said:


> Aaaaaaaaand we're live.
> 
> SSS, LCO Textures, Kepler Orchestra, HZ Percs and Percs Pro, Ambient guitar, and apparently a bundle with all that?
> 
> EDIT: doesn't seem to work as of now.


But where did you get that info?


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## Mikro93 (Feb 20, 2020)

StillLife said:


> But where did you get that info?


It appeared online for a brief period of time, but the discounts were not applied, and the bundle seemed to not have been created as a purchasable item. There was a purpler banner at the top of the website saying "40% Off selected products blah blah"


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## StillLife (Feb 20, 2020)

And one minute later I am softly contemplating the bundle (don't have any of the libs on offer).... But no, not interested in SSS and Kepler.


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## Mornats (Feb 20, 2020)

For a while I've been contemplating between OACE and LCO Textures as my underbed for Tundra and SStO tracks. OACE is the most recommended and loved but I was always drawn to the more esoteric LCO so if that's the one on sale I may be tempted.


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## pawelmorytko (Feb 20, 2020)

Mornats said:


> For a while I've been contemplating between OACE and LCO Textures as my underbed for Tundra and SStO tracks. OACE is the most recommended and loved but I was always drawn to the more esoteric LCO so if that's the one on sale I may be tempted.


I'm literally in the same boat, thinking about getting LCO Textures or OACE. Like you said, people seem to love OACE and I love the sound of both from demos and walkthrough, but I think I'd prefer LCO Textures as it offers more colours of the orchestra instead of just strings.


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## pawelmorytko (Feb 20, 2020)

Sale is up guys, the link doesn't show anything yet but things like LCO Textures, SSS and HZPerc are on sale part of the Thunderbolt promotion

There's also anew bundle for the promotion:

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/countdown-collection/
Seems like those are the only products on sale:

*LONDON CONTEMPORARY ORCHESTRA TEXTURES - £249 -> £149
KEPLER ORCHESTRA - £249 -> £149
HANS ZIMMER PERCUSSION PROFESSIONAL - £549 -> £329
HANS ZIMMER PERCUSSION -  £349 -> £209
AMBIENT GUITARS - £249 -> £149
SPITFIRE SYMPHONIC STRINGS - £699 -> £419*


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## easyrider (Feb 20, 2020)

Is this style over content ? Or is it worth a cheeky £149 ?


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## StillLife (Feb 20, 2020)

Anyone uses LCO textures in their songs? Intrigued by it, and lots of praise on the net - what do you think?


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## Mornats (Feb 20, 2020)

Yeah, those other colours! Also I'm sure someone said on here that if you listen to the close mics you get some lovely sounds without the hanger ambience and that it was something quite special.


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## StillLife (Feb 20, 2020)

Aargh. Just when I thought I would settle for 'just' Ambient Guitars...


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## holywilly (Feb 20, 2020)

Got Ambient Guitar for 64% off via collection, Bravo!


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## Mornats (Feb 20, 2020)

"Countdown Collection" - countdown to what?


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## easyrider (Feb 20, 2020)

Mornats said:


> "Countdown Collection" - countdown to what?



You Credit Card Statement


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## fredmbarros (Feb 20, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> It depends on what you are trying to do. Mock-up music that lacks recordings? I've done a bit of this. It will depend on the era and the ensemble. String quartets, trios and such are hard. You'll have better luck with works that also feature piano that can cover issues in the strings. Samples are not always well suited to older orchestral idioms. Except maybe BBCSO, Spitfire is also inflected toward the cinematic and other media music. Orchestral Tools' Berlin series is a bit more in the direction of concert music and, though I haven't worked with them much, VSL seems to also be more geared toward concert music. If you are looking for woodwinds for chamber music, you'll likely want to find some solo instruments that are more suitable for that than instruments that are parts of sets designed for orchestral playing.


Yes, that’s the case. I mostly need to create performances of music that has never been recorded. It’s all for educational and academic purposes and the repertoire comprises some 19th century late romantic music and, most of all, modernist music from the first half of the 20th century. I will surely end up using these libraries for my own music (which isn’t meant for other media, I mostly use it to listen to how it sounds while composing/arranging or for some pop/Brazilian music arrangements to go along real bass, guitar, voice etc.), but that’s not the main purpose.

I had checked Berlin strings and, along with Spitfire’s Studio Strings, it’s actually one of the more classically-sounding I’ve see, but SStS seems to have lots of problems and I couldn’t arrive at a conclusion on whether Berlin Inspire would be enough, as the professional Berlin library is much more expensive. Hence these questions:

1. Is Berlin expected to go on sale at any time of the year?

2. I have access to educational discounts of about 30% and usually they don’t stack over other sales, so is it worth waiting for a discount if more than 30% on a Berlin future sale?

3. Given the description I have of my needs, will Berlin Inspire be enough or are there serious shortcomings to be expected?


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## StillLife (Feb 20, 2020)

Got Ambient Guitars for 128 euro's (as an owner of Enigma 1). LCO textures - not sure yet.


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## Peter Wayne (Feb 20, 2020)

London Contemporary Orchestra Textures looks tempting. How does it compare to OLAFUR ARNALDS CHAMBER EVOLUTIONS? I'm thinking one of these might be useful to help fill out ambient tracks.


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## Brasart (Feb 20, 2020)

I own LCOT and love it, it has really unique sounds and blends fantastically well with any material.
It stands on its own, but it also works very well when layered with "standard" orchestral articulations — it gives a lot of movement to static chords, very cool to create organic movement.

I found that it works very well with Time Micro to create unique textures too.

My advice when running through its presets is to try and get away from the default "Mix" mic; while it's good, it's also very *full *and I find I get a lot more space to work with using the close mic and my own reverb and effects


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## Brasart (Feb 20, 2020)

Peter Wayne said:


> London Contemporary Orchestra Textures looks tempting. How does it compare to OLAFUR ARNALDS CHAMBER EVOLUTIONS? I'm thinking one of these might be useful to help fill out ambient tracks.



Those are 2 completely different librairies, I'd suggest you watch both walkthroughs to get a better idea of what you need!


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## Peter Wayne (Feb 20, 2020)

Do you ever find any issues with tuning when composing over the top of the textures? I've watched the walkthroughts but I'm still not sure if they limit what you can write over the top of them or not.


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## Brasart (Feb 20, 2020)

Peter Wayne said:


> Do you ever find any issues with tuning when composing over the top of the textures? I've watched the walkthroughts but I'm still not sure if they limit what you can write over the top of them or not.



Not really, unless you're playing with a "dissonant" patch like the one from OACE, which slowly bends in and out of one tone


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## John Longley (Feb 20, 2020)

Regret: Orchestral Piano. Just gross.
Meh: Alt Solo Strings (not super dynamic and vibrato gets annoying at times), The ethnic flute one I can't remember the name of.
Solid: LCO Strings, Cimbalom, Riccotti Mallets
Shockingly Love: Studio WW Pro and Studio Brass Pro

I don't own or use a ton of Spitfire, but the Studio Pro series really impressed me, but I like dry libraries like Hein.


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## Fever Phoenix (Feb 20, 2020)

StillLife said:


> Anyone uses LCO textures in their songs? Intrigued by it, and lots of praise on the net - what do you think?


I did use it for a tv show this year, but find it much more difficult to handle as the other Spitfire Evos, some frequencies are rather extreme and you need to spend some time to bed some of this textures in your mix. It is a nice tool, but for what I do previous Evos are much more usable and have a place in my template. Again, boils down to what you want, write, do and like.


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## Drundfunk (Feb 20, 2020)

Fine, I'll buy something.


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## Jim Martin (Feb 20, 2020)

Just as I thought, big let down. Nothing on that list worth my $. Was really hoping for chamber strings. Oh well, at least my wallet is still full


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## pawelmorytko (Feb 20, 2020)

I'm just sat on youtube re watching every review and demo there is on LCO Textures, while it's sitting in my cart...


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## Technostica (Feb 20, 2020)

Mornats said:


> "Countdown Collection" - countdown to what?


To the next sale maybe!


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## emilio_n (Feb 20, 2020)

Maybe LCO Textures... but not sure, I just bought OACE in the last sales and didn't used yet...


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## barteredbride (Feb 20, 2020)

pawelmorytko said:


> I'm just sat on youtube re watching every review and demo there is on LCO Textures, while it's sitting in my cart...



Past the point of no return...


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## nolotrippen (Feb 20, 2020)

The sale is live now. Your opinions?


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## khollister (Feb 20, 2020)

Difficult decision today. I already own all the Symphonic libs (inc. perc), LCO, OACE, all the Albions, HZPP, Enigma 1 and a bunch of other SA stuff not really germane to this decision. Kepler and LCOT are really attractive - Ambient Guitars I wouldn't normally be interested in. However, the bundle gets me AG for only $30 over the price of Kepler and LCOT individually, so the bundle seems a no-brainer.

My biggest speed bump is that I just ordered a Townsend L22 mic, recently purchased an additional UAD TB Satellite and took advantage of the global 50% plugin discount from the satellite buy and coupons to stock up on the UAD stuff I really wanted but didn't already own (including the Putnam mic collection in anticipation of the Townsend purchase). So I wasn't really planning on another $390 Spitfire purchase right now. Of course I could just get either Kepler or LCOT for $179.

This stuff isn't going to get too much cheaper (maybe another 10% somewhere down the line), so ...


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## jbuhler (Feb 20, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> Yes, that’s the case. I mostly need to create performances of music that has never been recorded. It’s all for educational and academic purposes and the repertoire comprises some 19th century late romantic music and, most of all, modernist music from the first half of the 20th century. I will surely end up using these libraries for my own music (which isn’t meant for other media, I mostly use it to listen to how it sounds while composing/arranging or for some pop/Brazilian music arrangements to go along real bass, guitar, voice etc.), but that’s not the main purpose.
> 
> I had checked Berlin strings and, along with Spitfire’s Studio Strings, it’s actually one of the more classically-sounding I’ve see, but SStS seems to have lots of problems and I couldn’t arrive at a conclusion on whether Berlin Inspire would be enough, as the professional Berlin library is much more expensive. Hence these questions:
> 
> ...


Spitfire will work reasonably well for the late 19th c and 20th c repertories you are talking about. Using samples gets dicier as you go earlier. The Berlin Inspires are nice libraries that are mostly lite versions (more limited articulations and mics) from the Berlin series (which a few patches from the Arks). (I only have Inspire 1.) Together, they would make a good set of base libraries for your use. I think Metropolis Ark captures the sound the large orchestra from the 1900-1930 pretty well, though I find the strings of those libraries less than ideal. It's an oversized aesthetic (and no solo instruments) but more in the mold of Mahler, Strauss, Stravinsky's early ballets, or Carmina Burana than the epic cinematic style of today. You may well find that fine. I do. Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra is quite good for this period as well. I don't have BBCSO, but I would look very closely at it: more comprehensive than the Inspires, a bit smaller in ensemble size than than SSO, and quite a lot more flexible because it wasn't recorded in Air. Also according to reports of users, BBCSO is much better balanced out of the box and more consistent across its instruments than are the other libraries we are talking about, and that can save you lots of time as you are learning these libraries. It is only available in the SF Player, which has caused trouble for some, especially users working in Cubase on PCs. So that is something to consider. So far BBCSO has not been offered at less than 25%, so the EDU pricing on it is the best you that has been available. It's possible that the May wish list sale, where most libraries will 40% off and bundles will be 30% off, will bring a steeper discount if you can wait that long. The EDU sale in September is the time when the SF libraries are offered at the best price for those who hold an EDU discount. 

OT hardly ever offers sales aside, and they are rarely better than the EDU price. There is hope that they might offer a series of sales as they port their libraries to Sine. I don't have them, but the Berlin woodwind libraries are especially well regarded. (The downside of the Berlin Strings—which I do have—is that they currently require a fairly robust system to run well—lots and lots of RAM.)


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## jbuhler (Feb 20, 2020)

So what's the word on Ambient Guitars? I can get it for about $130.


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## Technostica (Feb 20, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> So what's the word on Ambient Guitars? I can get it for about $130.


It's not that ambient in places which is a good thing IMO but if you like the slot it fills then it's well done.
I'm not a big fan of using Kontakt in the way that Spitfire have done here but not a deal breaker for me.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Feb 20, 2020)

Opinions on SSS vs Hollywood Strings? Both on sale today.


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## Mike Fox (Feb 20, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Opinions on SSS vs Hollywood Strings? Both on sale today.


Apple and Oranges. Both are excellent.

SSS is easier to play, but needs a little eq work to get rid of the mud. Has a bit more thickness and lushness than HS. Also has that lovely Lyndhurst sound.

HS is cheaper, and blends well with other libraries. Diamond features divisi.


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## Jim Martin (Feb 20, 2020)

Based on history, are we looking about three months out before the next deal on libraries? Have always wanted SCS but no going to pay full price for it.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Feb 20, 2020)

Jim Martin said:


> Based on history, are we looking about three months out before the next deal on libraries? Have always wanted SCS but no going to pay full price for it.


Probably going to be a site-wide 40% off wishlist sale around May. SCS is worth the wait, IMO!


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## jononotbono (Feb 20, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> HS is cheaper, and blends well with other libraries. Diamond features divisi.



It's also fair to say, reflective on how cheap it is financially (now not when initially released) it is a resource hungry library so one could say what you save on the actual library you spend more on the hardware run it. I mean, I bought HOD for about £500 which is a complete bargain. To run the whole Orchestra and not just 3 patches per instrument in some kind of Skeleton template, you need some serious horse power.

Yeah, you can't compare SSS or HS Diamond. They both sound so different and both are excellent.

East West stuff is always on sale as well so there's that to consider. Perhaps just rent Composer Cloud for a month and try it out. You'll soon know if you love it.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 20, 2020)

Not sure about this sale. I have SSS already but have barely touched the stuff I picked up at the last wishlist sale.


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## jbuhler (Feb 20, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Not sure about this sale. I have SSS already but have barely touched the stuff I picked up at the last wishlist sale.


Clearly, you need to realize that you have become a serious collector of VIs and so you are obligated to continue buying.


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## John Longley (Feb 20, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Opinions on SSS vs Hollywood Strings? Both on sale today.


I think Hollywood Strings is still annoyingly good. It won't go away, despite being a little fiddly to use on the fly compared to more modern interfaces but you can use it for almost anything and it usually works.

HS is on sale every ten minutes so I wouldn't stress either way.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 20, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Clearly, you need to realize that you have become a serious collector of VIs and so you are obligated to continue buying.


Unfortunately I am. But I need more drives. I'm really running out of room.


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## PaulieDC (Feb 20, 2020)

BezO said:


> Almost hoping nothing still on my wish list goes on sale.


I got nailed. Symphonic Strings is on mine. That's an enormous WANT but not a need. Ugh.
I'm not going to do it.

I'm not going to do it.

I'm not going to do it.

I'm not going to do it.

I'm not going to do it.

I'm not going to do it.

I'm not going to do it.

Well, not TODAY anyway, let's see what happens in the wee hours of the morning...


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## jononotbono (Feb 20, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> I got nailed. Symphonic Strings is on mine. That's an enormous WANT but not a need. Ugh.
> I'm not going to do it.
> 
> I'm not going to do it.
> ...



It is rather excellent. Hope I've helped.


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## pawelmorytko (Feb 20, 2020)

Oh boy, here I go spending again!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Feb 20, 2020)

John Longley said:


> I think Hollywood Strings is still annoyingly good. It won't go away, despite being a little fiddly to use on the fly compared to more modern interfaces but you can use it for almost anything and it usually works.
> 
> HS is on sale every ten minutes so I wouldn't stress either way.



I do appreciate Spitfire’s easy to understand interface. I read the manual for HS and it seems quite complicated for me.


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## easyrider (Feb 20, 2020)

pawelmorytko said:


> I'm just sat on youtube re watching every review and demo there is on LCO Textures, while it's sitting in my cart...



that’s a lethal combo...


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## easyrider (Feb 20, 2020)

pawelmorytko said:


> Oh boy, here I go spending again!



Told you so


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## Zero&One (Feb 20, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I do appreciate Spitfire’s easy to understand interface. I read the manual for HS and it seems quite complicated for me.



Yeah I wouldn't read the manual first, reads more like instructions for a nuclear detonator. Actually really easy to use when you get playing with it and understand their naming convention. The SA/Kontakt stuff is certainly more friendly.
The main rush for EWHO stuff is current upgrades, not very often. But normal sales are every month.
So SSS would be the one I'd look at if a bargain is high priority.


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## Paul Grymaud (Feb 20, 2020)

*Resist the temptation: Get behind me, Satan !*


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## BezO (Feb 20, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> I got nailed. Symphonic Strings is on mine. That's an enormous WANT but not a need. Ugh.
> I'm not going to do it.
> 
> I'm not going to do it.
> ...


Ha! Same with HZ Perc, want but don't need. I went percussion crazy this past holiday season, so I should be able to hold out.


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## BassClef (Feb 20, 2020)

HZ Perc looks pretty good to me at this price. I already have East West Hollywood Perc for standard orchestral stuff, 8Dio epic taikos, dhols, toms and frames, and the perc inside of things like Albion1, Jeager and MetArk1. Much of the Epic perc libraries sound too big for my style and maybe overhyped. The HZ sounds more organic, natural.


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## NoamL (Feb 20, 2020)

I've got Joby Burgess Perc + LA Modern Perc and still a bit tempted by HZ01... someone talk me out of it


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Feb 20, 2020)

NoamL said:


> I've got Joby Burgess Perc + LA Modern Perc and still a bit tempted by HZ01... someone talk me out of it



You remember when I told you I didn't use HZ01 anymore since I got Ark 3 ?
Well, *I was stupid*. HZ01 is now all over my trailer tracks. It's quite expensive for what you have, but some patches are instant classics. A very good deal with 40% off 

Edit : Sorry for not talking you out of it.


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## redlester (Feb 20, 2020)

John Longley said:


> Regret: Orchestral Piano. Just gross.



Just a word on this, Orchestral Piano on my setup opens by default to a horrible sound, as if the piano is in another room of the building.

if I switch off “Tape” make sure it’s just set to“Direct” and a mix of the close and outrigger mics, it sounds really good in my opinion. Especially for the low price.


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## Emmanuel (Feb 20, 2020)

I hesitate between HZP and HZPP... HZPP he worth it ?


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## BassClef (Feb 20, 2020)

Emmanuel said:


> I hesitate between HZP and HZPP... HZPP he worth it ?



Good question... I've listened to all of the demos and reviews that I can find. I believe the content is the same in both. The primary diff is more mics and several professional mixes by famous engineers. Those mixes are all good, just different. For my needs, working with the standard 3 mic positions gives me plenty of flexibility. Another consideration is the MUCH GREATER storage footprints for all of those mics. 20GB versus 132GB for pro on your hard drive! I'm going with the standard edition.


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## fredmbarros (Feb 20, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Spitfire will work reasonably well for the late 19th c and 20th c repertories you are talking about. Using samples gets dicier as you go earlier. The Berlin Inspires are nice libraries that are mostly lite versions (more limited articulations and mics) from the Berlin series (which a few patches from the Arks). (I only have Inspire 1.) Together, they would make a good set of base libraries for your use. I think Metropolis Ark captures the sound the large orchestra from the 1900-1930 pretty well, though I find the strings of those libraries less than ideal. It's an oversized aesthetic (and no solo instruments) but more in the mold of Mahler, Strauss, Stravinsky's early ballets, or Carmina Burana than the epic cinematic style of today. You may well find that fine. I do. Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra is quite good for this period as well. I don't have BBCSO, but I would look very closely at it: more comprehensive than the Inspires, a bit smaller in ensemble size than than SSO, and quite a lot more flexible because it wasn't recorded in Air. Also according to reports of users, BBCSO is much better balanced out of the box and more consistent across its instruments than are the other libraries we are talking about, and that can save you lots of time as you are learning these libraries. It is only available in the SF Player, which has caused trouble for some, especially users working in Cubase on PCs. So that is something to consider. So far BBCSO has not been offered at less than 25%, so the EDU pricing on it is the best you that has been available. It's possible that the May wish list sale, where most libraries will 40% off and bundles will be 30% off, will bring a steeper discount if you can wait that long. The EDU sale in September is the time when the SF libraries are offered at the best price for those who hold an EDU discount.
> 
> OT hardly ever offers sales aside, and they are rarely better than the EDU price. There is hope that they might offer a series of sales as they port their libraries to Sine. I don't have them, but the Berlin woodwind libraries are especially well regarded. (The downside of the Berlin Strings—which I do have—is that they currently require a fairly robust system to run well—lots and lots of RAM.)


Thanks for the detailed explanation. I’m leaning towards not getting anything now and waiting to see if the expected May sales offer Chamber Strings at a better price. Still thinking about SSS, but I’m not sure about spending this on a library that I don’t really, entirely want. 

Actually now I remember why I ruled Berlin out: it requires Kontakt full. I actually plan to get it one day, but then to buy it in order to use Berlin would mean a much greater amount of money spent, especially without any discount on Kontakt.

It seems like the best deal I have within reach so far is Cinematic Studio Strings with 30% edu discount, with that piano of theirs at half price to boot, but I think it’s too - surprise - cinematic for what I need. 

My mockups don’t really need to be perfect. It’s just to give an idea of how the pieces would sound, so a better (meaning realistic) overall orchestral sound is more important than perfect articulations or a huge variety of them. It’s more a question of timbre than interpretation, I guess. In this regard, I don’t plan to have many libraries either. One good orchestral one would do. That’s another plus for Berlin Inspire, which offers woodwinds, brass and percussion too.

When you say Berlin is resource hungry, how do you think an i7 Mac Mini with 16RAM and both internal and external SSDs would fare?


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## schrodinger1612 (Feb 20, 2020)

Do I really need the hans zimmer stuff if I already have the 8dio frame drum, taiko, toms and dhol?


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## Peter Wayne (Feb 20, 2020)

Brasart said:


> Not really, unless you're playing with a "dissonant" patch like the one from OACE, which slowly bends in and out of one tone


Thanks for the info, it really helps. I was just worried it would be hard to blend with other samples.


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## jbuhler (Feb 20, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> Thanks for the detailed explanation. I’m leaning towards not getting anything now and waiting to see if the expected May sales offer Chamber Strings at a better price. Still thinking about SSS, but I’m not sure about spending this on a library that I don’t really, entirely want.
> 
> Actually now I remember why I ruled Berlin out: it requires Kontakt full. I actually plan to get it one day, but then to buy it in order to use Berlin would mean a much greater amount of money spent, especially without any discount on Kontakt.
> 
> ...


All of these will be hard with only 16GB. SF would require freezing tracks. I’m not sure about CSS, since I don’t have it. In my experience Berlin Strings requires at least 32GB just by itself if you are going to use more than one mic. Berlin Strings does not require full Kontakt. SCS is great and worth waiting for I think. I find it much more useable than SSS. But do be sure you like the tone. SCS can be somewhat nasally. It’s a deal killer for some.


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## babylonwaves (Feb 20, 2020)

schrodinger1612 said:


> Do I really need the hans zimmer stuff if I already have the 8dio frame drum, taiko, toms and dhol?


you get mixes from people others trust. and some more stuff, like paper duns (which is my favourite in certain cases). it's a percussion library. i have a lot of those and they overlap but i never felt is was a wrong choice because percussion is a lot about mics and room and musical context. at least in my line of work.


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## Redsa (Feb 20, 2020)

LCO could be good, been waiting to try that one for a while!


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## dzilizzi (Feb 20, 2020)

Well, darn it. I listened to Kepler. I thought for sure I would hate it because the Doppler effect is really annoying. But the rest is kind of cool And well, LCOT. I can never figure out how to make those things work with the grid thing. Though I guess the ones I have are the old grid. And they all kind of sound alike after a while. Like the Omnisphere patches I was listening to the other day.

I don't need or really care for the ambient guitars. I have a whole lot of similar sounding stuff already. About 2 minutes into the walkthrough, I shut it off because it was really annoying me.

So then I look at the numbers. Thinking of buying Keppler and LCOT. If I buy the collection, taking into account I have SSS, HZPP costs an additional $293 and the ambient guitars are free.

And when is midnight the 21st? Would that be another 20+ hours? I like countdown clocks. They make more sense.


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## jbuhler (Feb 20, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Well, darn it. I listened to Kepler. I thought for sure I would hate it because the Doppler effect is really annoying. But the rest is kind of cool And well, LCOT. I can never figure out how to make those things work with the grid thing. Though I guess the ones I have are the old grid. And they all kind of sound alike after a while. Like the Omnisphere patches I was listening to the other day.
> 
> I don't need or really care for the ambient guitars. I have a whole lot of similar sounding stuff already. About 2 minutes into the walkthrough, I shut it off because it was really annoying me.
> 
> ...


I have Kepler. Really interesting concept and not sorry I bought it but I do find it very hard to use in context.


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## Zero&One (Feb 20, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> And when is midnight the 21st? Would that be another 20+ hours? I like countdown clocks. They make more sense.



Using UK time here, that would be 23 hrs... so that's more than a day sale 
Confusing. Timers are great. I like watching them even when I'm not buying stuff!


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## rrichard63 (Feb 20, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> And when is midnight the 21st? Would that be another 20+ hours?


This is a sore point with me as well. There might be some "official" definition of "midnight", but if there is I doubt that it is common knowledge. If you're literal minded, calling it 12:00 am makes it part of the following day rather than the preceding one. In that case, "midnight on the 21st" in London would have been a little over an hour ago.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 20, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> This is a sore point with me as well. There might be some "official" definition of "midnight", but if there is I doubt that it is common knowledge. If you're literal minded, calling it 12:00 am makes it part of the following day rather than the preceding one. In that case, "midnight on the 21st" in London would have been a little over an hour ago.


That's kind of what I was thinking. Yet the sale is still on..... Countdown clocks. They are the best!


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## dzilizzi (Feb 20, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I have Kepler. Really interesting concept and not sorry I bought it but I do find it very hard to use in context.


The only thing I was thinking was that it might be similar enough to Sonokinetic's Ostinato stuff which I already have.


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## khollister (Feb 20, 2020)

I caved - did the complete my bundle deal for LCOT, Kepler and Ambient Guitars. Downloading LCOT now. I was listening to the walkthrough of Kepler and at one point, thought the strings would make a great mockup of Conquistadore by Procol Harum


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## jbuhler (Feb 20, 2020)

No, not really like that at all. More like a rhythmatized Evo. And you can get very interesting patterns and such. It’s fun to noodle around with. But there’s no way to change patterns with midi (or if you can do it it’s not obvious). Which means you need lots of instances if you want such changes. And it’s a bit of a CPU hog so having all those instance can be a bit of a nuisance.


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## kgdrum (Feb 20, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Well, darn it. I listened to Kepler. I thought for sure I would hate it because the Doppler effect is really annoying. But the rest is kind of cool.





When Kepler was released the Doppler effect annoyed me as well,it actually seemed silly to me conceptually.
Hearing a bit more in walkthroughs it seems kind of interesting but noticing how many people list it in the regrettable purchase thread as well as how many users say it hard to incorporate and a resource hog makes me say no thanks.
I will pass.


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## jbuhler (Feb 20, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> This is a sore point with me as well. There might be some "official" definition of "midnight", but if there is I doubt that it is common knowledge. If you're literal minded, calling it 12:00 am makes it part of the following day rather than the preceding one. In that case, "midnight on the 21st" in London would have been a little over an hour ago.


This has always been confusing to me and I’m never certain how a particular system will treat it so I inevitably go with 11:59PM or 12:01am.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Feb 20, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> too many dynamic layers can make the usable range of each layer too narrow on the CC to use effectively


If you are a Logic user, you can use Shrink Ray to narrow the dynamic range, and still have that smaller range mapped across the entire mod wheel.


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## Mike Fox (Feb 20, 2020)

NoamL said:


> I've got Joby Burgess Perc + LA Modern Perc and still a bit tempted by HZ01... someone talk me out of it


My honest opinion is that it's an excellent library to sit in the background and add depth to the perc in the forefront. I don't use it for anything else.


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## BezO (Feb 20, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> No, not really like that at all. More like a rhythmatized Evo. And you can get very interesting patterns and such. It’s fun to noodle around with. But there’s no way to change patterns with midi (or if you can do it it’s not obvious). Which means you need lots of instances if you want such changes. And it’s a bit of a CPU hog so having all those instance can be a bit of a nuisance.


This. I hate everything about it but the sound. No keyswitching is a frustrating omission.

And if you're a Komplete Kontrol user, know that NKS compatibility is near false advertisement.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Feb 20, 2020)

whitewasteland said:


> HZ01 is now all over my trailer tracks.


Are you using HZ Pro or the standard version?


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## lp59burst (Feb 20, 2020)

I picked up the "Countdown Collection". Since I already owned most of it I ended up getting HZ Percussion Pro and Kepler for $390 which is ~57% off if my math is correct... $390/$898


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Feb 20, 2020)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Are you using HZ Pro or the standard version?



This is the "old" HZ01 version, which doesn't include the solo instruments (HZ03). But I'm especially liking the JXL mixes,which are today a part of the Pro package I think !


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## Fever Phoenix (Feb 21, 2020)

hm.. I have a tendency to get Ambient Guitars.. seems like a great deal..

...

...

...


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## StillLife (Feb 21, 2020)

Does anyone know how NKS is implemented in LCO Textures, in particular the browsing in KK / Maschine? I find that with Spitfire the implementation varies in quality. The EWC-update of last month provided very logical browsing, but with Ambient Guitars (that I bought yesterday) I am baffled: I can't find any logic in the browsing categories! They don't even align with the different sections you see when you open up the library in Kontakt. Such a pitty (the sounds - or what I've heard of them until now - are great, though). Before I spend another 179 euro's I'd like to know wether LCO Textures DOES have logical NKS categories for browsing.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Feb 21, 2020)

StillLife said:


> Does anyone know how NKS is implemented in LCO Textures, in particular the browsing in KK / Maschine? I find that with Spitfire the implementation varies in quality. The EWC-update of last month provided very logical browsing, but with Ambient Guitars (that I bought yesterday) I am baffled: I can't find any logic in the browsing categories! They don't even align with the different sections you see when you open up the library in Kontakt.


I don't know the answer to this, but it's one of my pet peeves about NKS. Some companies implement 5% of what is possible for NKS and call it NKS. Or worse, they even do it in a way, as you mention, that isn't helpful or makes no logical sense. And often the worst offenders in this regard are the biggest companies. I guess they don't have to try hard as they know people will buy their libraries anyway.

On the other hand, there are companies like Sonokinetic who push the envelope and provide imaginative NKS features that no other company has ever offered. 

A lot of people get NKS keyboards and consider them useless crap, when it's not the keyboard at fault, it's just they happen to own software made by developers who don't use NKS well. 

Some of my favorite NKS templates are made for non-NKS instruments by *Freelance Soundlabs*. That's because the guy who makes them loves using NKS and makes them to please himself.


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## fredmbarros (Feb 21, 2020)

After all we’ve discussed here, after saying I’d wait for May sales, I started having second thoughts and went to YouTube watch SSS demos. Now I’m feeling tempted to get it.
Convince me otherwise, please. Why would I not want it?


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## MisteR (Feb 21, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> When you say Berlin is resource hungry, how do you think an i7 Mac Mini with 16RAM and both internal and external SSDs would fare?


Slightly different opinion (from jbuhler) on one small point. Spitfire’s Kontakt Player libraries ran well for me for years with a quad-core i7 mid 2011 iMac 16gb and no ssds. I used only 7200 FireWire 800. So for SCS, I don’t think things will be frustrating with those specs. I think if templates get huge, etc. then you’re into freezing with anything. Spitfire SCS should be 50% off in Sept if you are a student. 40% wishlist in May.


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## BezO (Feb 21, 2020)

StillLife said:


> Does anyone know how NKS is implemented in LCO Textures, in particular the browsing in KK / Maschine? I find that with Spitfire the implementation varies in quality. The EWC-update of last month provided very logical browsing, but with Ambient Guitars (that I bought yesterday) I am baffled: I can't find any logic in the browsing categories! They don't even align with the different sections you see when you open up the library in Kontakt. Such a pitty (the sounds - or what I've heard of them until now - are great, though). Before I spend another 179 euro's I'd like to know wether LCO Textures DOES have logical NKS categories for browsing.


I can only say that SF's NKS implementation for Kepler & Orchestral Swarm has turned me off enough to not consider anything but traditional instruments from them unless they release a major update for these. I'm surprised NI allowed them claim NKS compatibility.


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## jbuhler (Feb 21, 2020)

MisteR said:


> Slightly different opinion (from jbuhler) on one small point. Spitfire’s Kontakt Player libraries ran well for me for years with a quad-core i7 mid 2011 iMac 16gb and no ssds. I used only 7200 FireWire 800. So for SCS, I don’t think things will be frustrating with those specs. I think if templates get huge, etc. then you’re into freezing with anything. Spitfire SCS should be 50% off in Sept if you are a student. 40% wishlist in May.


I was going from my experience with my 2012 i7 16GB laptop where even with an SSD I wasn’t able to load the full SSO or SCS, SSW, and SSB with one mic without freezing. It was hysterically funny when I tried Berlin Strings on that rig... it would bring the whole rig to its knees. SSO/SCS with multiple mics always worked well with 32GB. I suspect now that Logic only loads used instruments that things work much better on smaller systems.


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## dsblais (Feb 21, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> After all we’ve discussed here, after saying I’d wait for May sales, I started having second thoughts and went to YouTube watch SSS demos. Now I’m feeling tempted to get it.
> Convince me otherwise, please. Why would I not want it?


SSS is an interesting and often beautiful sounding library, but I find its shorts quite anemic. The default full vibrato is much too strong on the longs for most uses, but is easy to adjust. On the other hand, there is a wealth of articulations and the legatos are silky and lovely. It’s a good library all in all for less harsh or aggressive works. Sorry I couldn’t slag it more.


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## fredmbarros (Feb 21, 2020)

MisteR said:


> Slightly different opinion (from jbuhler) on one small point. Spitfire’s Kontakt Player libraries ran well for me for years with a quad-core i7 mid 2011 iMac 16gb and no ssds. I used only 7200 FireWire 800. So for SCS, I don’t think things will be frustrating with those specs. I think if templates get huge, etc. then you’re into freezing with anything. Spitfire SCS should be 50% off in Sept if you are a student. 40% wishlist in May.


Glad to hear it. Rationally I know I should wait and see if I get Berlin for a better price in the future. It seems the best overall option for my needs, but I’ve been feeling some sort of rush to start working on some stuff I have in my queue with better sounds right away. I still have about nine hours to decide.
Glad to know also that I took it wrong from their website and that Berlin works with Kontakt Player. Thanks, @jbuhler


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## Mike Fox (Feb 21, 2020)

dsblais said:


> SSS is an interesting and often beautiful sounding library, but I find its shorts quite anemic. The default full vibrato is much too strong on the longs for most uses, but is easy to adjust. On the other hand, there is a wealth of articulations and the legatos are silky and lovely. It’s a good library all in all for less harsh or aggressive works. Sorry I couldn’t slag it more.


Define anemic.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2020)

Supposedly the Sine version will let you buy just the parts you want. Not sure how much of a savings it will be. 

I like SSS myself. But I'm not a good composer yet, just starting out in this. It would crash my laptop (PC) if I loaded too many articulations. My more powerful desktop has no problems. And? It will be a similar price every wishlist sale.


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## robgb (Feb 21, 2020)

reutunes said:


> *PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT : *These discounts are running for just 24 hours, but don't be fooled by these "time sensitive" offers. This is marketing 101 to rush you into a purchase. If they can afford to knock 40% off once, they'll do it again in the future.


I find it interesting that they're doing this at all. It seems rare for Spitfire to have a sale other than the Christmas/Summer wishlist sale. Maybe I'm wrong. But now that sales are apparently year round for everyone else, Spitfire feels the need to get in the action. The technique certainly seems to be working for 8Dio.


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## X-Bassist (Feb 21, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> After all we’ve discussed here, after saying I’d wait for May sales, I started having second thoughts and went to YouTube watch SSS demos. Now I’m feeling tempted to get it.
> Convince me otherwise, please. Why would I not want it?


I had been waiting the last year for a sale on SSS, mainly because I really like SCS Pro and thought a bigger version of that would be great. But listening now to the videos it seems to have a limited dynamic range and not sound as good as a few string libraries already in my templete. After going through the multiple mics I found a few that sound better and are a big improvement over the standard mix output- Cinestrings, CSS, and Symphobia all sound better.

And what’s up with the shorts? In SCS you even get a variety of shorts and “digs” (hard shorts) that I use all the time. Seems like a large omitted area. Then on top of that you’ve got the room to deal with if you want to bring in other shorts, which would lead me to not use it at all. Purchase wasted. With Spitfire my new attitude is, if it’s not up to par wait, perhaps they will improve it in an update, and if they do they will probably have a bigger sale.


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## dsblais (Feb 21, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Define anemic.


Anemic wasn’t the right word as the sound is very nice; “reserved” would be more accurate. Specifically, I find it very difficult to get the harsh, lower third of the bow sound even at max velocity. The shorts appear oriented towards more elegant and pleasant sounding parts than e.g. CineStrings.


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## fredmbarros (Feb 21, 2020)

X-Bassist said:


> I had been waiting the last year for a sale on SSS, mainly because I really like SCS Pro and thought a bigger version of that would be great. But listening now to the videos it seems to have a limited dynamic range and not sound as good as a few string libraries already in my templete. After going through the multiple mics I found a few that sound better and are a big improvement over the standard mix output- Cinestrings, CSS, and Symphobia all sound better.
> 
> And what’s up with the shorts? In SCS you even get a variety of shorts and “digs” (hard shorts) that I use all the time. Seems like a large omitted area. Then on top of that you’ve got the room to deal with if you want to bring in other shorts, which would lead me to not use it at all. Purchase wasted. With Spitfire my new attitude is, if it’s not up to par wait, perhaps they will improve it in an update, and if they do they will probably have a bigger sale.


Now you’ve touched on something that I had in my mind: the comparison between SSS and CSS. I was almost going for the latter, as I can get a nice deal with the edu discount they offer. I’m aware that they have a sound that’s not exactly what I’m after, but I totally could see myself using it on some things. But then today, during this YouTube demo binging, I found a video comparing these two libraries and SSS sounded so much more realistic. I had seen other demos before and hadn’t found this to be really the case, but this video left me wondering... I’ll see if I can find which video it was and then post it here as an edit.


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## X-Bassist (Feb 21, 2020)

robgb said:


> I find it interesting that they're doing this at all. It seems rare for Spitfire to have a sale other than the Christmas/Summer wishlist sale. Maybe I'm wrong. But now that sales are apparently year round for everyone else, Spitfire feels the need to get in the action. The technique certainly seems to be working for 8Dio.


First it was East West and Waves, then 8Dio, now Spitfire and Cinesamples seem to be jumping in with regular sales. Which I think is fine, but shows that they know their prices are bloated. But 8Dio’s may backfire, as I’m finding issues with most of their libraries. Even recent releases like Silka- looping issues, output issues, strange useless articulations. 

They know how to record a great sound, but much after that (editing, cleaning, scripting, quality control) gets bungled. Then contacting support can just lead to “seems to be working as intended on our end”. Case closed. Just glad I’ve never bought at full price from them. They have a huge catalog, and like Spitfire, release libraries so fast they don’t seem to care if they are working correctly. I’m afraid Spitfire may be heading down the same road.


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## jbuhler (Feb 21, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> Glad to hear it. Rationally I know I should wait and see if I get Berlin for a better price in the future. It seems the best overall option for my needs, but I’ve been feeling some sort of rush to start working on some stuff I have in my queue with better sounds right away. I still have about nine hours to decide.
> Glad to know also that I took it wrong from their website and that Berlin works with Kontakt Player. Thanks, @jbuhler


I would look into getting the full version of Kontakt in the near future. It will open options as you move to supplement whatever libraries you decide on for your base.

I find SSS heavy but there are times you need that and it’s a different sound from Berlin or indeed SCS. I’ll also point out that many have reported success running BBCSO on a Mac mini 16GB so that’s something to consider too. BBCSO will give you everything you need including harp and percussion.To my ears it’s more a symphonic sound than a cinematic one.


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## robgb (Feb 21, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I would look into getting the full version of Kontakt in the near future. It will open options as you move to supplement whatever libraries you decide on for your base.


This, a thousand times over. Not only that, it will allow you to tweak libraries when the developer is less than diligent.


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## X-Bassist (Feb 21, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> Now you’ve touched on something that I had in my mind: the comparison between SSS and CSS. I was almost going for the latter, as I can get a nice deal with the edu discount they offer. I’m aware that they have a sound that’s not exactly what I’m after, but I totally could see myself using it on some things. But then today, during this YouTube demo binging, I found a video comparing these two libraries and SSS sounded so much more realistic. I had seen other demos before and hadn’t found this to be really the case, but this video left me wondering... I’ll see if I can find which video it was and then post it here as an edit.


I would like to hear. But my suggestion is if you can’t use it regularly don’t get it. And SSS may not have enough to it to make it useful. This is my issue with Albion 1 and Albion One, I have both but I don’t fine the articulations or the layout to be enough to do anything serious, so it doesn’t get used at all. If only I could resell. 

But if I were you I would wait for a sale on Berlin Strings if you like them. Check threads to see the downsides (I don’t own them) but my theory is since they are now an “older” library that have never had a decent sale they should go on sale soon, or at the very least when they are ported to their custom player (where you could also try and buy them one piece at a time). Like BBW, it will be a 50% off or something close.

Or, like mentioned above, check out BBC. Just keep in mind they don’t have a louder dynamic, but for traditional symphonics it would seem to be ideal. Assuming Spitfire has done all their qc properly.


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## X-Bassist (Feb 21, 2020)

robgb said:


> This, a thousand times over. Not only that, it will allow you to tweak libraries when the developer is less than diligent.


Yes! Like when 8Dio inserts hidden reverbs and gain boosters that mess up the outputs...


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## fredmbarros (Feb 21, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I would look into getting the full version of Kontakt in the near future. It will open options as you move to supplement whatever libraries you decide on for your base.


Sorry if I’m being literal and asking a lot, but by this you mean a sale is expected in the near future or are you just suggesting I should get it shortly? (I know either way you’re suggesting I get it, but otherwise you could have just said get it. Don’t know if it’s pure wishful thinking on my part, but I though “I’m the near future” implied that soon an opportunity to get a discount on it could turn up).


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## Consona (Feb 21, 2020)




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## jbuhler (Feb 21, 2020)

X-Bassist said:


> First it was East West and Waves, then 8Dio, now Spitfire and Cinesamples seem to be jumping in with regular sales. Which I think is fine, but shows that they know their prices are bloated. But 8Dio’s may backfire, as I’m finding issues with most of their libraries. Even recent releases like Silka- looping issues, output issues, strange useless articulations.
> 
> They know how to record a great sound, but much after that (editing, cleaning, scripting, quality control) gets bungled. Then contacting support can just lead to “seems to be working as intended on our end”. Case closed. Just glad I’ve never bought at full price from them. They have a huge catalog, and like Spitfire, release libraries so fast they don’t seem to care if they are working correctly. I’m afraid Spitfire may be heading down the same road.


I don’t think it’s that prices are bloated. It’s more that the marginal cost of another copy is the bandwidth of the download. But the more you test the floor to gain more sales the smaller the income on each sale and the less you have to invest in maintenance, support, and even product development. If you adopt the philosophy of releasing minimum viable products but don’t have the resources to continue developing them they will remain minimally viable.


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## jbuhler (Feb 21, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> Sorry if I’m being literal and asking a lot, but by this you mean a sale is expected in the near future or are you just suggesting I should get it shortly? (I know either way you’re suggesting I get it, but otherwise you could have just said get it. Don’t know if it’s pure wishful thinking on my part, but I though “I’m the near future” implied that soon an opportunity to get a discount on it could turn up).


I mean you don’t need it immediately but you will find it most useful in the long term. It just opens so many new possibilities for instruments and at generally lower prices. Kontakt usually goes on sale during the summer if I remember right and you can also use any Kontakt player library you have to upgrade to the full version.


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## Zero&One (Feb 21, 2020)

@dzilizzi did you pick up the bundle then?


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## Robert_G (Feb 21, 2020)

If there is one feather i can put in my hat since ive been buying VIs....its that i no longer am deceived by Spitfire's silk tongue.

8dio's flash sales?....thats another story.


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## Mike Fox (Feb 21, 2020)

dsblais said:


> Anemic wasn’t the right word as the sound is very nice; “reserved” would be more accurate. Specifically, I find it very difficult to get the harsh, lower third of the bow sound even at max velocity. The shorts appear oriented towards more elegant and pleasant sounding parts than e.g. CineStrings.


Most definitely! Have you played SCS? Those have got to be the most reserved and dainty shorts I've ever heard. They make the shorts in SSS sound aggro. Beautiful tone, but not exactly versitile, which is why i usually layer them with something else.

Both of those libraries are all about the long articulations.


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## X-Bassist (Feb 21, 2020)

fredmbarros said:


> Sorry if I’m being literal and asking a lot, but by this you mean a sale is expected in the near future or are you just suggesting I should get it shortly? (I know either way you’re suggesting I get it, but otherwise you could have just said get it. Don’t know if it’s pure wishful thinking on my part, but I though “I’m the near future” implied that soon an opportunity to get a discount on it could turn up).


Since OT’s Sine sampler was released, and they announced a year ago that they would eventually export all their libraries to the new player, I would expect Berlin Strings to go there. Then I would also expect either OT or NI to put the Kontakt version on deep discount before the Sine version is released. Probably 50 to 60% off, but certainly at least 40%. 

So unless you need them for a paying project, I would wait for that sale. If you prefer Kontakt, get it at that first sale, if you prefer the Sine sampler, get it when that is released, at least then you could (in theory) get it one section at a time as you need them.

BUT all of this is speculation. I cannot guarantee these sales will happen, just a assumption based on what they (and NI) have done in the past. Also, do your diligence and seek out threads here on Berlin Strings, there are some shortcomings you should be aware of (heavy Ram and Cpu load, for instance).

Regardless spending money on instruments you will use consistently and not move from (even if they are more to purchase) are always a better call in the longrun. And I say this only because I bought a few in the beginning because of the price (cough* Kirk Hunter, cough) that quickly went into the bin. And on non-resellable libraries this can be a costly mistake (ok, I suppose I wouldn’t want to pass on a curse anyway )


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## dsblais (Feb 21, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Most definitely! Have you played SCS? Those have got to be the most reserved and dainty shorts I've ever heard. They make the shorts in SSS sound aggro. Beautiful tone, but not exactly versitile, which is why i usually layer them with something else.
> 
> Both of those libraries are all about the long articulations.


I haven’t played SCS despite the rave reviews. When I got SSO, I really considered it but decided to go with what appeared a more intentionally balanced (with SSB and SSW) set of instruments by getting SSS. Also, I already am a big fan of VSL’s Chamber Strings and so I felt the chamber niche was well covered.

I actually thought from what I’ve heard here that SCS would have much harsher and more present shorts, so it’s really good to know that they are of the same ilk and even more so than SSS. Thanks!


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## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> @dzilizzi did you pick up the bundle then?


Still thinking. Part of me says grab it. Part of me says why? Guess I'd better decide soon though.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 21, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Still thinking. Part of me says grab it. Part of me says why? Guess I'd better decide soon though.



You can always buy it now and sleep on it for a few days. As long as you don't download anything, you can get a full refund.


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## Zero&One (Feb 21, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Still thinking. Part of me says grab it. Part of me says why? Guess I'd better decide soon though.



You still have time... we all know this is exactly when we decide yes or no


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## redlester (Feb 21, 2020)

StillLife said:


> Does anyone know how NKS is implemented in LCO Textures, in particular the browsing in KK / Maschine? I find that with Spitfire the implementation varies in quality. The EWC-update of last month provided very logical browsing, but with Ambient Guitars (that I bought yesterday) I am baffled: I can't find any logic in the browsing categories! They don't even align with the different sections you see when you open up the library in Kontakt. Such a pitty (the sounds - or what I've heard of them until now - are great, though). Before I spend another 179 euro's I'd like to know wether LCO Textures DOES have logical NKS categories for browsing.



The same presets listed in Kontakt are all there, but they are not in the exact same sub-categories.

On Komplete Kontrol Keyboard you can select between "Core Patches" and "Individual Textures". They seem to appear as follows:

Kontakt - "Curated Presets" - the non Textures Grid patches appear under "Individual Textures" in KK. The Textures Grid patches appear under "Core Patches" in KK.
Kontakt - "Individual Textures" appear under "Core Patches" in KK

This looks confusing written above, but in use the answer is that everything is in one place, apart from the 19 non-Texture Grid patches from Curated Presets. And, crucially, you can hear the previews.


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## easyrider (Feb 21, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Still thinking. Part of me says grab it. Part of me says why? Guess I'd better decide soon though.



If you are thinking why then why bother? Just because it’s 40% off? It will be that again soon enough...


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## jbuhler (Feb 21, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> Most definitely! Have you played SCS? Those have got to be the most reserved and dainty shorts I've ever heard. They make the shorts in SSS sound aggro. Beautiful tone, but not exactly versitile, which is why i usually layer them with something else.
> 
> Both of those libraries are all about the long articulations.


I find the SCS shorts to be quite versatile and especially like them on crunchy close dissonances. But they do retain a certain dignity, for the lack of a better term, even at high velocities.


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## emasters (Feb 21, 2020)

Ended up completing the Countdown Collection - which for me was only getting SSS. Discounted price was $347, so pretty happy getting SSS at almost a 60% discount. Thx Spitfire!


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## Robert_G (Feb 21, 2020)

Here is a fair question?
How many people just starting out (with your current knowledge and understanding of the VI market), would drop $1700 U.S. (current price) for Spitfire Symphony Orchestra? I don't think many would.

My issue is that many good companies recognize that after a few years that the initial prices on their products need to drop as they age and sales on those products drop off...and in response either drop their prices or have super cheap sales on them.
Exceptions would be libs like CSS and CSB which are already super deals.


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## dsblais (Feb 21, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Here is a fair question?
> How many people just starting out (with your current knowledge and understanding of the VI market), would drop $1700 U.S. (current price) for Spitfire Symphony Orchestra? I don't think many would.
> 
> My issue is that many good companies recognize that after a few years that the initial prices on their products need to drop as they age and sales on those products drop off...and in response either drop their prices or have super cheap sales on them.
> Exceptions would be libs like CSS and CSB which are already super deals.


But is SSO really worth less now than when it came out? There certainly are better values out there (HO comes to mind), but it’s still a top tier symphonic VI. None of these VI companies have anything approaching a monopoly and there already is a strong market determination of price (hence BBCO’s much cheaper price, I would wager). We live in a rather lucky time with regard to orchestral VIs, though surely one that will get better over the next decade. I say all this personally regretting how much it cost for SSO, by the way.


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## easyrider (Feb 21, 2020)

I bought LCO T


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## Robert_G (Feb 21, 2020)

dsblais said:


> But is SSO really worth less now than when it came out? There certainly are better values out there (HO comes to mind), but it’s still a top tier symphonic VI. None of these VI companies have anything approaching a monopoly and there already is a strong market determination of price (hence BBCO’s much cheaper price, I would wager). We live in a rather lucky time with regard to orchestral VIs, though surely one that will get better over the next decade. I say all this personally regretting how much it cost for SSO, by the way.



….but would you pay $1700 today in 2020 for it is the question?


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## jbuhler (Feb 21, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Here is a fair question?
> How many people just starting out (with your current knowledge and understanding of the VI market), would drop $1700 U.S. (current price) for Spitfire Symphony Orchestra? I don't think many would.
> 
> My issue is that many good companies recognize that after a few years that the initial prices on their products need to drop as they age and sales on those products drop off...and in response either drop their prices or have super cheap sales on them.
> Exceptions would be libs like CSS and CSB which are already super deals.


If you had a gig that required it now, you would pay the full price for it. For the rest, you'd wait for the next wish list sale. In any case, the list price isn't what it is for most of these companies as it serves instead as a fixed point from which to offer limited sales to force decision points. I think most of us quickly intuit how all of this works, which then makes it a bit irritating. But truth be told I kind of like limited buying windows as it focuses attention. And when companies like Spitfire, Native Instruments, and Heavyocity offer sales on a reasonably predictable basis you can save, prioritize and plan your purchases accordingly. By contrast, I find the 8dio random sale model maddening. (This sale, and the Apex sale are more like the 8dio sales model.) Then there are those companies that offer their libraries at a perpetual discount. I don't know how effective that is as then you really do just internalize the new price point.


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## dsblais (Feb 21, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> ….but would you pay $1700 today in 2020 for it is the question?


That’s a good question. Let’s see, it’s a top tier library. The two other vendors I think of as being consistently at that level are OT and VSL, both of which one can easily get to the $1700 mark filling out orchestral sections. I think it can be justified, but for that price I think customers should expect occasional updates and fixes (just as OT and VSL do), which seems to be a missing piece of the customer support in Spitfire. OT rarely goes on sale, so its full price is more honest in a way. VSL has a very smart policy of ensuring any piece you buy will count towards its many collections, crossovers, and upgrades. So it may not be quite apples to apples at $1700, but if you like the sound then it may well be worth it to you.

After all, Logic Pro and Kontakt come with half way decent orchestral bits, while Composer Cloud provides an almost obscene level of value for its price. But to me and thousands of others, we would happily lay out several hundreds of dollars to get different and arguably better VIs. One thing is sure: I can’t hire an orchestra to play my explorations for hours for $1700.


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## M Abela (Feb 21, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I bought LCOT



Me too.


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## jbuhler (Feb 21, 2020)

dsblais said:


> That’s a good question. Let’s see, it’s a top tier library. The two other vendors I think of as being at that level are OT and VSL, both of which one can easily get to the $1700 mark filling out orchestral sections. I think it can be justified, but for that price I think customers should expect occasional updates and fixes (just as OT and VSL do), which seems to be a missing piece of the customer support in Spitfire. OT rarely goes on sale, so it’s full price is more honest in a way. VSL has a very smart policy of ensuring any piece you buy will count towards its many collections, crossovers, and upgrades. So it may not be quite apples to apples at $1700, but if you like the sound then it may well be worth it to you.
> 
> After all, Logic Pro and Kontakt come with half way decent orchestral bits, while Composer Cloud provides an almost obscene level of value for its price. But to me and thousands of others, we would happily lay out several hundreds of dollars to get different and arguably better VIs. One thing is sure: I can’t hire an orchestra to play my explorations for hours for $1700.


What makes you think Spitfire doesn't do regular fixes? My experience is I get far better regular maintenance from Spitfire than OT.


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## dsblais (Feb 21, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> What makes you think Spitfire doesn't do regular fixes? My experience is I get far better regular maintenance from Spitfire than OT.


I’d be happy to be wrong about this. I’ve only been a customer of theirs for about a year, so it’s really just complaints I’ve heard here and that only Albion One seems to have had an update since release. Many of OT and VSL products I have, have had updates and various improvements. Your impression is that Spitfire regularly updates (and expands?) their older products?

EDIT: to be clear, I only have Albion One, SSO, and (now) HZ percussion. It was hearing that SSO had issues that were not dealt with yet the developer focus appeared to have fully moved on to newer products like BBCO that created this impression.Although SSO was moderately discounted, having recently paid near their asking price, this was dismaying, especially coupled with my own gripes about the aforementioned reserved/dignified focus of the library.


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## Robert_G (Feb 21, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> If you had a gig that required it now, you would pay the full price for it. For the rest, you'd wait for the next wish list sale.



This is probably something that I forget to take into consideration. I don't do gigs. I'm on my own clock on my own buck.



jbuhler said:


> By contrast, I find the 8dio random sale model maddening. (This sale, and the Apex sale are more like the 8dio sales model.)



Yes....trying to figure out 8dio sales model can certainly have it's challenges.


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## Robert_G (Feb 21, 2020)

dsblais said:


> That’s a good question. Let’s see, it’s a top tier library. The two other vendors I think of as being consistently at that level are OT and VSL, both of which one can easily get to the $1700 mark filling out orchestral sections. I think it can be justified, but for that price I think customers should expect occasional updates and fixes (just as OT and VSL do), which seems to be a missing piece of the customer support in Spitfire. OT rarely goes on sale, so its full price is more honest in a way. VSL has a very smart policy of ensuring any piece you buy will count towards its many collections, crossovers, and upgrades. So it may not be quite apples to apples at $1700, but if you like the sound then it may well be worth it to you.



VSL allows resales which puts them in different category than OT or Spitfire....unfortunately their dongle policy almost erases that particular positive. If VSL eliminated their dongle policy, they would be the top dog hands down.



dsblais said:


> while Composer Cloud provides an almost obscene level of value for its price.



On a good day I can eat a 16 ounce T-bone steak. There is never a day I can eat 120 ounces of assorted stew meat.

ComposerCloud gives you 120 ounces of assorted stew meat with the odd tender piece thrown in (ie...HW Orchestra), but most of it (80% of Composer Cloud libs) sits on the plate when the meal is over.
I'd rather have less (16 ounce T-bone) and use the whole thing because it's top quality that tastes good.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 21, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> ….but would you pay $1700 today in 2020 for it is the question?



If I really liked it, then yes. I'm among the few that don't really like the sound of SSO (the strings in particular). But I would definitely shell out $1700 for a full orchestral library that I liked. I paid over $2000 for The old EW Complete Composer Collection eleven years ago, I still love those libraries.


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## jbuhler (Feb 21, 2020)

dsblais said:


> I’d be happy to be wrong about this. I’ve only been a customer of theirs for about a year, so it’s really just complaints I’ve heard here and that only Albion One seems to have had an update since release. Many of OT and VSL products I have, have had updates and various improvements. Your impression is that Spitfire regularly updates (and expands?) their older products?
> 
> EDIT: to be clear, I only have Albion One, SSO, and (now) HZ percussion. It was hearing that SSO had issues that were not dealt with yet the developer focus appeared to have fully moved on to newer products like BBCO that created this impression.Although SSO was moderately discounted, having recently paid near their asking price, this was dismaying, especially coupled with my own gripes about the aforementioned reserved/dignified focus of the library.


I'm sure there have been some, but I can't think of a single SF product I have that hasn't received an update. The updates to SCS have been quite regular over the years. HZS received two major updates in the last year. Since January 2019, I have had updates for the following libraries: Eric Whitacre Choir, Aperture, HZS (2), Spitfire Solo Strings (2), SCS (2), OACE (2), Albion One (2), Studio Brass, Kepler, Tundra, SSW, SSB, Orchestral Swarm, and Symphonic Evolutions. 

The last update I recall of my OT instruments was when they were made NKS compatible, whenever that was, December 2018?


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## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> You can always buy it now and sleep on it for a few days. As long as you don't download anything, you can get a full refund.


LOL! Too late. Though I haven't downloaded the ambient guitars yet. Too bad I can't sell just them.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2020)

easyrider said:


> If you are thinking why then why bother? Just because it’s 40% off? It will be that again soon enough...


The 40% off wasn't the question. It was the package that made it interesting. And since I already have SSS, it was a good deal.


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## Mike Fox (Feb 21, 2020)

Listening to walkthroughs of LCO textures. Is it just me, or does this remind anyone else of the strings in NEO?


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## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Here is a fair question?
> How many people just starting out (with your current knowledge and understanding of the VI market), would drop $1700 U.S. (current price) for Spitfire Symphony Orchestra? I don't think many would.
> 
> My issue is that many good companies recognize that after a few years that the initial prices on their products need to drop as they age and sales on those products drop off...and in response either drop their prices or have super cheap sales on them.
> Exceptions would be libs like CSS and CSB which are already super deals.


Well, that's where the wishlist sale comes into effect. I finally bought it in the 2018 Xmas wishlist sale. As a bundle, it is a good deal and I use it much more than anything save VSL'S SE collection, which I only use on my laptop because it doesn't crash it. It is easier to use than EW for me and I really like the Air Lyndhurst sound. So, I think it is worth the wishlist bundle price. And have you looked at the price for VSL's regular collection? That seems overpriced to me. 

I don't have CSS or CSB. I listen to the walkthroughs and just feel kind of meh when I hear them. Though people here do make them sound good.


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## jbuhler (Feb 21, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> The 40% off wasn't the question. It was the package that made it interesting. And since I already have SSS, it was a good deal.


I tried to convince myself I needed Ambient Guitars and I just couldn’t do it. I’m very concerned.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I tried to convince myself I needed Ambient Guitars and I just couldn’t do it. I’m very concerned.


Well, I figured if I was going to get LCOT and Kepler, it was less than $300 for HZPP and the guitars are free. LCOT was already on my list to eventually get. HZPP wasn't. But then I got it for over 50% off. Technically more, but I gave zero value to the Ambient Guitars.


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## JohnG (Feb 21, 2020)

I guess I value my time more than anything, so if something sounds great, or even just quite useful, it's totally worth it to me and I buy it. If you're poor or a student, I get it; otherwise, I find the "it's too expensive" complaints bewilderingly self-defeating and even somewhat goofy, in some cases.

If we are trying to get work as composers, the music has to sound as good as we can possibly make it. Not "if only..." good. Not, "if only I had an orchestra," or "if only I had a better reverb" or "if only I had better libraries." The people hiring us are comparing to -- what do you think? -- James Newton Howard, Hans Z, Michael G -- those people _and_ their assistants, who often are happy to work on a less-conspicuous project.

If our demos don't sound awesome, they are just not going to hire us, or we'll only get mediocre gigs. Therefore, whatever tools help, I'm willing to pay for, including a live orchestra. Otherwise it's always going to be a hobby.

*Cost is -- Not Much*

Compared with what a single semester of university costs in the USA (over $30k at a private college or university), you could buy all of Spitfire, and maybe OT, and probably half the other leading sample libraries. Certainly you could buy just about everything for the cost of an entire year at a US university.

So, in that context of comparing it to a university education, if I buy, say, Orbis, and use it now and then, it's 100% worth it because it sounds cool and adds a texture unlike other things. Same with many of the libraries being discussed here. I use HZ Strings all the time, even though it's not the lead instrument very often.

Nevertheless, if you don't like the sound, don't buy it just because it's on sale!


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## jbuhler (Feb 21, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Well, I figured if I was going to get LCOT and Kepler, it was less than $300 for HZPP and the guitars are free. LCOT was already on my list to eventually get. HZPP wasn't. But then I got it for over 50% off. Technically more, but I gave zero value to the Ambient Guitars.


I have everything else in the bundle so the Guitars are dirt cheap and I watched the walkthrough but nothing about it grabbed me. So even at a bit over $130 it just didn’t seem like anything I’d get use out of since I have other things that cover much of this ground. But like what happened to my GAS?


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## Zero&One (Feb 21, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> But like what happened to my GAS?



We should have an area dedicated to recovering GAS sufferers. I feel ashamed I didn't buy anything.


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## StillLife (Feb 21, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> You can always buy it now and sleep on it for a few days. As long as you don't download anything, you can get a full refund.


Good idea! Just bought LCOT at the eleventh hour. Now off to sleep and see how I feel about it in the morning.


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## sostenuto (Feb 21, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I have everything else in the bundle so the Guitars are dirt cheap and I watched the walkthrough but nothing about it grabbed me. So even at a bit over $130 it just didn’t seem like anything I’d get use out of since I have other things that cover much of this ground. But like what happened to my GAS?




Even GAS is not exempt from DR !! ( Diminishing Returns ) 

Wow ! Did I find this SFA -Thunderbolt ..... promo ..... just a Mktg step toward 8Dio.
Lotsa better places to invest $130. than Ambient Guitars .... ?? 

But that's just an individual, microscopic, perspective as I struggle with:
KH _ Spotlight Strings 4D @ $119.  ...... but that was only until Red Room Audio offered 30% discount on Melodics / Orchestral FX / Runs & Arps .... 

But then, there's always another VSL Promo these days ..... feels like I'm getting a Black Eye.


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## Fever Phoenix (Feb 21, 2020)

I didn't buy anything, I am very proud. 💪😆


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## kitekrazy (Feb 21, 2020)

Fever Phoenix said:


> I didn't buy anything, I am very proud. 💪😆



I'm more proud when I don't use credit. I could be really proud if I paid everything off.


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## easyrider (Feb 21, 2020)

Spitfire Audio — Offers


From introductory prices on our newest libraries to our most exciting promotions



www.spitfireaudio.com





Doesnt end at midnight


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## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I have everything else in the bundle so the Guitars are dirt cheap and I watched the walkthrough but nothing about it grabbed me. So even at a bit over $130 it just didn’t seem like anything I’d get use out of since I have other things that cover much of this ground. But like what happened to my GAS?


That I get. At some point, GAS goes away when price versus perceived value is negative. That's where "no-brainers" come in. Cost is low enough that it doesn't matter whether it is good or not. It fills the GAS. Probably if it had been only $30, you would have got it for the one or two useful presets.


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## dzilizzi (Feb 21, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Spitfire Audio — Offers
> 
> 
> From introductory prices on our newest libraries to our most exciting promotions
> ...


Well it is only 6:30 pm here in Los Angeles. They never did specify time zones.


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## khollister (Feb 22, 2020)

Got everything downloaded and installed. Noodled around with everything and ...

LCOT is very nice - I can see using this on a regular basis for certain types of scores. Good addition to the toolbox.

Kepler is really interesting, and while my enthusiasm for the minimalist style that inspired it is not nearly as large as Christian's, I can see it being useful on occasion. It is pretty piggy playing live, but I can live with that. The thing I'm struggling with is the quantize on input thing. Even with it on (at quarter note for instance) I can still get a syncopated thing going when the grid is set to all 1/8 notes. I need to watch the videos again and maybe have a chat with SA support to understand what it's doing. I imagine my use will not primarily be the "chugga, chugga" patterns that characterize the genre but the shards and less rhythmic stuff.

Ambient guitars is pretty meh for me. The effective cost was $30 in my case so no worries, but this will see very little use likely.

So in my case, LCOT > Kepler >>> Ambient Guitars.


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## StillLife (Feb 22, 2020)

Still not downloaded LCOT. It does sound beautiful in all walkthroughs etc, but I can't help wondering whether it will fit my indie-ish pop/rock-music.


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## ProfoundSilence (Feb 22, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I'm just loving 5 dynamic layers in JXL Brass and it's made me think how much better everything would be if this was the case for everything I own!



*cries in random access memory*


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## JohnG (Feb 22, 2020)

StillLife said:


> Still not downloaded LCOT.



Is this London Contemporary Orchestra Strings or some other library?


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## redlester (Feb 22, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Is this London Contemporary Orchestra Strings or some other library?



LCOT = London Contemporary Orchestra Textures


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## paul (Feb 24, 2020)

Back to the original question that started this thread? -* none of them!*


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## StillLife (Feb 24, 2020)

paul said:


> Back to the original question that started this thread? -* none of them!*


The irony is that you could only give that answer if you own them all.


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## paul (Feb 24, 2020)

StillLife said:


> The irony is that you could only give that answer if you own them all.


I have never owned nor bought anything from Spitfire - _historical professional reasons_...... I'll just leave it at that......


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