# Some questions (and congratulations)



## Christof (Jun 28, 2015)

Congratulations to the forum transition!
Big improvements such as adding media links easily now, navigating, mobile device support(!)
I have some questions:
1.How can I navigate from the forum back to the portal site?I couldn't find any link.
2.How can I change my profile picture?
3.In the old forum it was possible to see which users read or watched a topic, is this still possible?

Thanks,
Christof


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## sleepy hollow (Jun 28, 2015)

Christof said:


> 1.How can I navigate from the forum back to the portal site?I couldn't find any link.


Try this one: http://vi-control.net/portal/
The layout looks totally strange on my browser - does it work for you?


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

Why cannot we edit our signatures anymore?


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

I am very grateful for all your questions, and tomorrow I will go through them one by one. /the new software is very deep and complex, and I'm just one guy... so it matter very much that I get your feedback so I can complete the work to your satisfaction and enjoyment.

If the site looks "funny" I need to know which browser you're using. 

EvilDragon: can you try the signature now?

Good night all!


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

Christof said:


> Congratulations to the forum transition!
> Big improvements such as adding media links easily now, navigating, mobile device support(!)
> I have some questions:
> 1.How can I navigate from the forum back to the portal site?I couldn't find any link.
> ...



Hi Christof,

Click on the little house icon on the top menu... 

Hope this helps!


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## sleepy hollow (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Click on the little house icon on the top menu...


The little house is linked to the "community", not the "portal".


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## sleepy hollow (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> If the site looks "funny" I need to know which browser you're using.


It looks good now! The site just didn't load fully, probably an issue with my internet connection.
I think the portal page is pretty cool!


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> The little house is linked to the "community", not the "portal".



Yes, I'm working on it... thanks for pointing it out!


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## Christof (Jun 28, 2015)

Can I edit my post after posting?


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> EvilDragon: can you try the signature now?



Works, thanks!


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

And yes, we can't seem to be able to edit our posts. That's mandatory.


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## Blakus (Jun 28, 2015)

Testing 1, 2, 3.
Yeah - editing is a must


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

Some subforums have &amp; showing instead of &


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

Also, I'd like it if collapsing/expanding the subforums were much faster... it's way too slow now. I also noticed that the collapsed state doesn't get remembered consistently. I'd be visiting the forum in some hours and they're all back to expanded. Cookie that!


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 28, 2015)

thanks to all of you for your comments and questions. We are sorting them out one by one. In the interim, please know that Andre has been probably up for at least 24 hours getting this up. He's a machine but even machines need downtime.


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## Christof (Jun 28, 2015)

Frederick Russ said:


> thanks to all of you for your comments and questions. We are sorting them out one by one. In the interim, please know that Andre has been probably up for at least 24 hours getting this up. He's a machine but even machines need downtime.


We totally understand!Thanks again for your big effort!


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## paoling (Jun 28, 2015)

Hi Frederick and Andre, congrats for the new forum. Just a couple of things in the visual style, maybe it's a easy fix with CSS. 



1) There's a big blank space under the signature which ruins a bit the style of the posts and the readability, it makes the signature to appear as a quoted post. 



2) The black horizontal bar which separates the posts has a too strong color and it gives the idea that the posts are separated elements, and the eye, or at least, my eye, doesn't follow the flow of the discussion. More over it has some information redundancy with the lower bar under the signature (number of post, time), maybe it could be removed completely to allow for a cleaner design. In general many layout elements distract the eye and the design trend of our times goes into the direction of simplicity. 



3) This was already noted by some other user, but even if I'm a developer, I feel that the ads are a bit too much present. In particular the animated banner at the end of any thread, which is a bit distracting and possibly derailing from the topic thread. Moreover when it rotates to another ad the whole page flips to accomodate the change in height and this is quite irritating if you are writing in the reply box.



4) The big list of developer icons on the bottom is nice, but it should be reserved in few pages, to save resources, and it makes the mobile navigation experience a bit odd.


---

If ads are a necessity maybe a right vertical banner as you can see in gearslutz can be helpful.


Just my two cents, anyway I'm going to explore further the functionalities of the new forum! 


Thanks for your work


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## Christof (Jun 28, 2015)

Blakus said:


> Testing 1, 2, 3.
> Yeah - editing is a must


I don't know if this is possible, but in Facebook when you edit a posting everyone who wants can see the edit history.Not sure if this is possible here, anyway it is not a must, just a fancy feature that would prevent some users to edit their posts after some critical or negative replies


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## Alatar (Jun 28, 2015)

One strange thing: Before I could login I had to reset my password.
No big thing, but confused my a bit.


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## efiebke (Jun 28, 2015)

Nice job in creating this new version of your web-site. Congratulations!


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## wst3 (Jun 28, 2015)

Wow - that's a big change! 

I like the new look! I like the unified reply (vs quick and full).

I like the list of sponsors at the bottom, but it is huge, it would nice, especially for mobile use, if it were a little more compact.

Is there any way to get a view that shows unread posts since last visit - that was one of my favorite features, and my goto whenever I logged in.

And as a note, I too had to reset my password for my first visit.

Congrats to any and all who were involved!

Bill


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## wst3 (Jun 28, 2015)

oops - forgot one - my inbox is marked as having a new message, but there is no new message visible.


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## Reegs (Jun 28, 2015)

To add my voice to the chorus, thanks for getting this all done, Andre! It looks great and I'm really glad to see how everything was moved over. In many operations a forum upgrade means everything from the past is lost, which is never a good thing -- especially when it's TEN YEARS of history (that must have been a lot of data).

Like Bill though, I feel the mobile experience is a little difficult (but leagues above previous), due in part to everything being almost too responsive and the giant ad banner trailing the posts. Would it be possible to look into using a more minimal theme for smaller screen/mobile browsers?

Thanks!
Pete


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## Daniel James (Jun 28, 2015)

Could we possibly get an optional theme where the background and headers or not quite as loud....all the light leaks and lens flare effects distract my eyes. Maybe a version which is the same but just has a nice plain blue background like the old site. Much easier on the eyes.


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## hollo (Jun 28, 2015)

wst3 said:


> Wow - that's a big change!
> 
> I like the new look! I like the unified reply (vs quick and full).
> 
> ...


Wow, i just find the quote  I too had to reset my password for my first visit.


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## R. Soul (Jun 28, 2015)

Alatar said:


> One strange thing: Before I could login I had to reset my password.
> No big thing, but confused my a bit.


Yep, me too. 
New site looks great.
I generally just go to 'latest post' and see if there's anything new and interesting.
I quite liked the old way of displaying that as you could see probably twice as many thread titles on one page. Any way to change that?


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## Zorpley (Jun 28, 2015)

Everything looks fantastic so far, except that I can't for the life of me figure out where to change my profile picture.


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## TheUnfinished (Jun 28, 2015)

Yep, definitely need to be able to edit posts. I always edit my commercial posts to make them more relevant/readable as time passes...

I can't pretend I like the new artwork (bit too EPIC... don't go there Bowdler), but that's just a personal taste thing. On my laptop it doesn't interfere with reading and the layout of threads is easily readable.

I'm sure we'll all get used to it soon enough.


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## kitekrazy (Jun 28, 2015)

I seem to be the only person on the planet that gets screwed over by forum changes. I logged in and could only get to the old site. I reset my password multiple times and somehow I must have worn the right shoes to click my heels and get here. Is it that hard that previous credentials have to be removed. I really get pissed at this stuff cause it happens to me so damn much.


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## kitekrazy (Jun 28, 2015)

kitekrazy said:


> I seem to be the only person on the planet that gets screwed over by forum changes. I logged in and could only get to the old site. I reset my password multiple times and somehow I must have worn the right shoes to click my heels and get here. Is it that hard that previous credentials have to be removed. I really get pissed at this stuff cause it happens to me so damn much.


 Basically I can't use my forum user name to login.


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## hollo (Jun 28, 2015)

TheUnfinished said:


> Yep, definitely need to be able to edit posts. I always edit my commercial posts to make them more relevant/readable as time passes...


+1 This! 

Also realised that the old scripted soundcloud links not showing up, some pictures not showing,
and most of the old smilies displaying only as text, so it's difficult to read the posts. 
So we should be able to edit them.

Huge congrats for the new easy Media feature!
Life will be easy and happy for us. :D


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## tack (Jun 28, 2015)

Speaking as someone who has pulled several 30+ hour days doing huge scale deployments and knows exactly what you feel like at the end of that (especially when things don't go according to plan), I just wanted to say thanks for the massive effort.


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

GOOOOOOD MORNIN'!!!!!! Wow, first thank you for the encouraging words! It's been like sculpting granite, but we made it!

1- OK, very important to remember: do not assume that if something isn't working, it's by design. Like I mentioned, there is no way I could know what's going on in every corner, so I TRULY appreciate all the feedback! This being said, the editing of posts and signatures and avatars is supposed to all be opened to all. 

2- The permissions system we have now is very deep, and most probably is creating the problems you have with editing posts, etc. So I'm diving in and will be fixing it. It's not a NAGRA, but it's still very very precise... 

3- Unfortunately, many of you will have had to reset your password, while others didn't. We didn't expect this to happen, but thankfully the reset experience went well?

4- Check every so often to see if your issue has been resolved, and LET US KNOW when you find that it has been solved.

5- I will look into the mobile device experience in the coming days. The site is fully responsive, but it's possible it's not responding to every single device on the planet, and that's to be expected. However, every single device on the planet deserves to be heard and I'll try to find solutions for yo.

More to come! 

Regards,

Andre


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## pkm (Jun 28, 2015)

Hi there, 

1. I'm sure the new site is full of fantastic improvements and took heaps of time and effort, and that is much appreciated, but I'm too distracted by the artwork and general busy design of everything. Some examples are the clashing background and header images, or the sidebar next to each post. I'd rather a solid color or simple pattern for the background. I much prefer websites that are a little less John Williams chase scene, and a little more Thomas Newman dialog scene.

2. Is there Tapatalk support? (mobile app)


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## Zorpley (Jun 28, 2015)

Thanks for the update! It's not that I run into a permissions error or something when I try to change my picture, I just can't find where in the settings the option is. Someone will probably tell me how and I'll feel really stupid for not finding it.


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## Tom D (Triple-D Sampling) (Jun 28, 2015)

Great work on the new site! I like it. Yes, the graphics are louder than before but I am fine with it.

I have noticed that when I click on "Start a Conversation" under a persons user info to the left of a post, I received this message:

*The following error occurred:*
You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.

Maybe something I need to enable? Or a general hiccup in the site? 

Again, great job! It's a ton of work.


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## catsass (Jun 28, 2015)

Is this thing on? Test. Test.
Can you cut about 3dB somewhere in the 2.5KHz to 4KHz range?

Wow, this place looks great!


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## ryanstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> Could we possibly get an optional theme where the background and headers or not quite as loud....all the light leaks and lens flare effects distract my eyes. Maybe a version which is the same but just has a nice plain blue background like the old site. Much easier on the eyes.





pkm said:


> Hi there,
> 
> 1. I'm sure the new site is full of fantastic improvements and took heaps of time and effort, and that is much appreciated, but I'm too distracted by the artwork and general busy design of everything. Some examples are the clashing background and header images, or the sidebar next to each post. I'd rather a solid color or simple pattern for the background. I much prefer websites that are a little less John Williams chase scene, and a little more Thomas Newman dialog scene.



Agreed, the overall aesthetic of the new design calls far too much attention to itself rather then the conversation. User interfaces that disappear and allow the content (conversation) to be the focal point is much more preferable.

In the backend under preferences you should be able to change the THEME of the site but when I went and did this the Core Child theme overrode my selected preferences. Can this be looked at?

No disrespect to the designer of this forum, I understand the effort it takes (I've done it before), but please let there be an option that is FAR less distracting from the flow of conversation.


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

Zorpley said:


> Thanks for the update! It's not that I run into a permissions error or something when I try to change my picture, I just can't find where in the settings the option is. Someone will probably tell me how and I'll feel really stupid for not finding it.





Tom D (Triple-D Sampling) said:


> Great work on the new site! I like it. Yes, the graphics are louder than before but I am fine with it.
> 
> I have noticed that when I click on "Start a Conversation" under a persons user info to the left of a post, I received this message:
> 
> ...



Yes, I'm working on PERMISSIONS. Could you tell me if your can now start a conversation?

Thanks!

Andre


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

ryanstrong said:


> Agreed, the overall aesthetic of the new design calls far too much attention to itself rather then the conversation. User interfaces that disappear and allow the content (conversation) to be the focal point is much more preferable.
> 
> In the backend under preferences you should be able to change the THEME of the site but when I went and did this the Core Child theme overrode my selected preferences. Can this be looked at?
> 
> No disrespect to the designer of this forum, I understand the effort it takes (I've done it before), but please let there be an option that is FAR less distracting from the flow of conversation.



Hi Ryan, will talk to Frederick to see about working on something. A quieter theme option would be nice...

Regards,

Andre


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

Zorpley said:


> Thanks for the update! It's not that I run into a permissions error or something when I try to change my picture, I just can't find where in the settings the option is. Someone will probably tell me how and I'll feel really stupid for not finding it.





TheUnfinished said:


> Yep, definitely need to be able to edit posts. I always edit my commercial posts to make them more relevant/readable as time passes...
> 
> I can't pretend I like the new artwork (bit too EPIC... don't go there Bowdler), but that's just a personal taste thing. On my laptop it doesn't interfere with reading and the layout of threads is easily readable.
> 
> I'm sure we'll all get used to it soon enough.



Totally! Could you try now to edit and let me know if it's working? 

Thanks!

Regards,

Andre


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

Zorpley said:


> Thanks for the update! It's not that I run into a permissions error or something when I try to change my picture, I just can't find where in the settings the option is. Someone will probably tell me how and I'll feel really stupid for not finding it.



Does this help?


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## mverta (Jun 28, 2015)

This thing gives me a headache - it's a jumbled assault of competing banners and images and animations. Criticism should be constructive; offer solutions, they say. So: change it. Xenforo is a good platform - I use it myself, but you gotta take it easy here and offer a less visually chaotic skin. That might help the speed, too - the whole site feels sluggish. There are some caching options in that regard. But she's on her feet, and that's no small task, so congrats on the roll out.

_Mike


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

I have thread tools now, can make thread sticky and whatnot. Did you basically make everybody a moderator just now? :D


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## jtnyc (Jun 28, 2015)

New design is slick. I have to agree about the busy background being distracting. I'd prefer a nice cool blue/grey myself. Also on the home page, the banner ads are way distracting. I realize they have to be there, but they switch out every 5 seconds and even when stationary, there is animation going on. I really like browsing from that page as I can get a general overview of all new posts. To busy now.

I also had to reset my password.

I CAN EDIT EVERYONES POST YAAAYYYA -DJ


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## Daniel James (Jun 28, 2015)

Not sure if it showed up, but I think everyone now has the power to edit everyone elses posts xD


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

mverta said:


> This thing gives me a headache - it's a jumbled assault of competing banners and images and animations. Criticism should be constructive; offer solutions, they say. So: change it. Xenforo is a good platform - I use it myself, but you gotta take it easy here and offer a less visually chaotic skin. That might help the speed, too - the whole site feels sluggish. There are some caching options in that regard. But she's on her feet, and that's no small task, so congrats on the roll out.
> 
> _Mike



Thanks Mike,

Sorry for the headache. Which page are you specifically referring to?

Others have expressed a preference for a quieter skin. I will be looking into it as soon as possible. As for the server speed, I looked at the site using GTMetrix and you are correct, some things are pulling speed down a bit. I will be looking into this as well, of course. And will report here.

Concerning "Tapatalk" that is not something I was asked for, but will look into it. How much use do you make of it?

Regards, and thanks again for the constructive feedback... 

Andre

SERIOUSLY I CAN EDIT EVERYTHING - DJ


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## Daniel James (Jun 28, 2015)

Yeah I can definitely edit everyones post. Also not sure everyone wants their IP addresses publicly available.


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

Not anymore :D


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> I have thread tools now, can make thread sticky and whatnot. Did you basically make everybody a moderator just now? :D
> 
> Dont edit my edits bro  -DJ



LOL! Well, thanks for letting me know!! I don't touch people's posts, but I took away some privileges I lavishly extended to all! Wow... phew... good thing we can trust one another on here... 

Regards,

Andre


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## Dryden.Chambers (Jun 28, 2015)

Are PM's now called conversations ?


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## Daniel James (Jun 28, 2015)

Haha I edited yours before I lost the power muhahaha


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

Yep, PMs are conversations.




creativeforge said:


> LOL! Well, thanks for letting me know!! I don't touch people's posts, but I took away some privileges I lavishly extended to all! Wow... phew... good thing we can trust one another on here...



Now we're back to not being able to edit anything... :(


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

Dryden.Chambers said:


> Are PM's now called conversations ?



Yep!


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> Now we're back to not being able to edit anything... :(



Anything?


Daniel James said:


> Not sure if it showed up, but I think everyone now has the power to edit everyone elses posts xD



Ah, not anymore, right?


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## Daniel James (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Anything?
> 
> 
> Ah, not anymore, right?



Nope not anymore. We need a personal edit option at least!


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## Daniel James (Jun 28, 2015)

mverta said:


> the whole site feels sluggish.



@mverta Site actually feels much faster to me...although the skin hurts my eyes, I had to block it all so I could focus on the text xD

-DJ


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> Nope not anymore. We need a personal edit option at least!



Hmmm... this is what I see. Could you try to refresh your page and see if clearing the cache helps?


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## synthpunk (Jun 28, 2015)

It's there now, but is not accepting images, even 100x100 says it to too big ?



creativeforge said:


> Does this help?


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

All good now re: editing/deleting posts!

By the way, this skin looks SO much better without those black headers between the posts.


Also it would be cool to color every other post in slightly different shade of cyan, so you can discern between posts even easier.


And yes, as far as avatars, please allow larger ones (200x200, and 100 KB size limit).


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

aesthete said:


> It's there now, but is not accepting images, even 100x100 says it to too big ?



Hi,

You're saying that you can post images in a post?


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> All good now re: editing/deleting posts!
> 
> By the way, this skin looks SO much better without those black headers between the posts.
> 
> ...



OK, well I miscalculated the size to 5120 bytes... Sorry! Can you try the new limit (1mb)?

Thanks!


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> Some subforums have &amp; showing instead of &



Just bumping this one up. Should be an easy fix 


(New avatar limit works fine )


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## paoling (Jun 28, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> By the way, this skin looks SO much better without those black headers between the posts.


Is there a way to switch it off? This is one of the things that hurts my eye the most.


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## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

I just used AdBlock to remove that element (and yes, all the "funboxes", too - they're no fun ). You can also do it with Stylish plugin for Firefox (or equivalent for Chrome).

I did the same with the theater background. It's just a simple darker blue color now. Much more readable. Here's a screenshot:


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## Zorpley (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Does this help?


Yessir, the option definitely wasn't there before, so I'm glad I'm not crazy. I'll add that I think a calmer background would be good, but I'm fine with the rest of the formatting.


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## Daniel James (Jun 28, 2015)

Hey let me try.

EDIT: I HAVE THE POWA


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## Tom D (Triple-D Sampling) (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Yes, I'm working on PERMISSIONS. Could you tell me if your can now start a conversation?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Andre



Seems to be working for me now. Sent you a test conversation a well to double check.

Thanks!

TD


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## paoling (Jun 28, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> I just used AdBlock to remove that element (and yes, all the "funboxes", too - they're no fun ). You can also do it with Stylish plugin for Firefox (or equivalent for Chrome).
> 
> I did the same with the theater background. It's just a simple darker blue color now. Much more readable. Here's a screenshot:



Wow, Mario, this is exactly what I meant. I'll use adblock too. Thanks for the tips.

Another thing to Andre is it possibile to reduce the size of the nice avatar box on the left?


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## thov72 (Jun 28, 2015)

Thanks for the new site and congratulations on the great job, Andre and Frederick. I hope we don´t complain too much  and I hope you´re both up and well...


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## lachrimae (Jun 28, 2015)

I like that I can middle-click a link to open it in a new tab w/out it also opening it in the current tab (it was unusual behavior on the previous forum).


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> Hey let me try.
> 
> EDIT: I HAVE THE POWA


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## ryanstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

paoling said:


> Wow, Mario, this is exactly what I meant. I'll use adblock too. Thanks for the tips.
> 
> Another thing to Andre is it possibile to reduce the size of the nice avatar box on the left?



It's unfortunate for developers that this forum design encourages adblock. Not very profitable for VI in the long run.

*creativeforge* thank you for looking in to the design. I would keep what I just mentioned in mind when speaking with *Frederick* about the design.


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

paoling said:


> Wow, Mario, this is exactly what I meant. I'll use adblock too. Thanks for the tips.
> 
> Another thing to Andre is it possibile to reduce the size of the nice avatar box on the left?



Not without issues, sorry. It would require diving into the code and make sure everything attached to this will move accordingly. But at some point I can look into it. Are you on a mobile? Why is it too big for you?


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

ryanstrong said:


> It's unfortunate for developers that this forum design encourages adblock. Not very profitable for VI in the long run.
> 
> *creativeforge* thank you for looking in to the design. I would keep what I just mentioned in mind when speaking with *Frederick* about the design.



Yes, Ad Block is not a good thing. There is a setting to encourage people to NOT turn it off, or it defeats the purpose of our developer friends advertising here!  But I will be looking into making some changes to the way it looks to avoid forcing its use. Thanks for highlighting this Ryan! Very thoughtful of you... 

Regards,

Andre


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## paoling (Jun 28, 2015)

I am a developer too and I think that a forum like this should provide the best possibile user experience. I'm using it just to disallow the black bar which ruins the flow of the discussion and now the threads are much more readable. In anycase I think that the big black block in the bottom could be fixed in someway.


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## ryanstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Yes, Ad Block is not a good thing. There is a setting to encourage people to NOT turn it off, or it defeats the purpose of our developer friends advertising here!  But I will be looking into making some changes to the way it looks to avoid forcing its use. Thanks for highlighting this Ryan! Very thoughtful of you...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andre



Thank you.

Not to step on any toes, but just a quick search brings up a handful of nice clean minimal flat designs for Xenoforo themes that are free or relatively cheap ($20) like the below...

https://xenforo.com/community/resources/modernui.3411/







or..

https://xenforo.com/community/resources/flat.3962/






I think something along these lines are much more digestible with some change of default color swatches.


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## Shubus (Jun 28, 2015)

Here's a subtle nit to pick. One the left-hand side where the avatars lie in wait, as anyone notice that the "thumbs up" and "thumbs down" counts appear to be BACKWARDS?

Loving this new forum layout....except for the black bars.


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

ryanstrong said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Not to step on any toes, but just a quick search brings up a handful of nice clean minimal flat designs for Xenoforo themes that are free or relatively cheap ($20) like the below...
> 
> ...



Yes, cheap to buy, not cheap to customize...


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## ryanstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Yes, cheap to buy, not cheap to customize...



Right, but I mean if people are going to be blocking the ads of the forum then "not cheap to customize" becomes "cheap to customize" if developers drop out because of poor click through rates due to bad layout.

But I don't mean to start any negative vibes here, just trying to think collectively here because at the forum's current state I don't see how this layout is a benefit to an advertiser's ad that would foster a higher click-through rate.

Thank you again for the open dialog.


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

paoling said:


> Is there a way to switch it off? This is one of the things that hurts my eye the most.



OK, the black header is gone. Also gone is the time the poster wrote his/her post. How does that look to you now?

Cheers,

Andre


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## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

ryanstrong said:


> Right, but I mean if people are going to be blocking the ads of the forum then "not cheap to customize" becomes "cheap to customize" if developers drop out because of poor click through rates due to bad layout.
> 
> But I don't mean to start any negative vibes here, just trying to think collectively here because at the forum's current state I don't see how this layout is a benefit to an advertiser's ad that would foster a higher click-through rate.
> 
> Thank you again for the open dialog.



The black bar is gone now. How does it look to you? 

Certainly the layout was not in question, Ryan, nor the suggestions. It's very very early in the game, and as any developer will testify to, releasing something "new" will give birth to a tsunami of responses. So in no way do I minimize the fact that some people like the layout, while others don't. 

Also, being that Frederick is the person in charge, I want to give him VETO on anything he wants. He hired me for "a certain special set of skills..." (oh God, here we go... ) so I gave him what he ordered. Now we need to adapt and adjust the forum so the main issues are dealt with over time.

PRIORITIES - I think it's only fair to focus on functionality as much as possible, as we want everyone to participate. I believe in the principle of the Pyramid of Maslow. What would "be nice" may cost much more and be much more involved than we expect. If you browse the web for Xenforo forums, you will see what I mean: it's a long journey, just like learning a new software. But we are in familiar territory here as this is something you guys deal with a lot of the time.

Thanks for your suggestions, again, I will keep working toward the ideal...

Regards,

Andre


----------



## ryanstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> The black bar is gone now. How does it look to you?
> 
> Certainly the layout was not in question, Ryan, nor the suggestions. It's very very early in the game, and as any developer will testify to, releasing something "new" will give birth to a tsunami of responses. So in no way do I minimize the fact that some people like the layout, while others don't.
> 
> ...



Great place of mind to be in, sounds good and agree. And yes the black bar removal was a step in a good direction for sure.


----------



## RCsound (Jun 28, 2015)

congrats with the new site, looks fantastic, great work!.


----------



## Alatar (Jun 28, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> Could we possibly get an optional theme where the background and headers or not quite as loud....all the light leaks and lens flare effects distract my eyes. Maybe a version which is the same but just has a nice plain blue background like the old site. Much easier on the eyes.



I agree. The background picture is too epic/loud for me too.

But apart from thanks a bunch for the new site. All in all it feels like a big lift.


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

Alatar said:


> I agree. The background picture is too epic/loud for me too.



Hi, I have dimmed the background a bit so it's not as "loud." 

Hope this helps,

Andre


----------



## Alatar (Jun 28, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> I just used AdBlock to remove that element (and yes, all the "funboxes", too - they're no fun ). You can also do it with Stylish plugin for Firefox (or equivalent for Chrome).
> 
> I did the same with the theater background. It's just a simple darker blue color now. Much more readable. Here's a screenshot:



How did you get the plain blue background? I want that too


----------



## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

Easy CSS change using Stylish 


```
@namespace url(http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml);

@-moz-document domain("vi-control.net")
{
  html, body { background: #248  !important}
   
  #logoBlock { background: transparent linear-gradient(to bottom, #2264BB 0%, #303030 100%) repeat scroll 0% 0% !important }
}
```

This also sets a gradient for the VI-C banner (I removed the image using AdBlock).


----------



## Jack Weaver (Jun 28, 2015)

1) The *Reply space* is separated from the thread by an advertising banner. A little obnoxious.

2) Where is the '*Currently Online*' status that was on the portal of the old site? I found it useful when I was considering replying to a comment in a thread.

3) Whoa, I don't like not being able to either *Preview* a post or then *Edit* it when I discover that I've made a silly grammatical error.

(*EDIT:* Oh, I see where the edit feature is now. See how much I need it?
*EDIT#2:* I'll bet that the little green light in the upper right hand corner of the avatar is an 'online' indicator. However there is no list on the Portal page that I can yet find of those people who are currently logged in.)

.


----------



## rgames (Jun 28, 2015)

Congrats on the rollout. And yeah, the new look is really busy! There's just so much info everywhere that it's hard to follow the thread. It seems like it takes a lot more scrolling to read through the info.

Also, the text keeps shifting up and down - I think there's a banner that's changing size and moving everything on the rest of the page.

But, again, congrats!

At least the "Report" button is no longer so easy to hit accidentally. Sorry to everyone I accidentally reported over the years - I think I cleared them all up


----------



## ModalRealist (Jun 28, 2015)

Congratulations on rolling out the new site! It's definitely not a style we see often today, but it's kinda nice for it to be unusual.

It would be _great_ if the advertising banner at the bottom of threads could go _below_ the Reply entry box. The disjunction is quite annoying! Ditto the way the whole page "jerks" when the banner changes content.


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

Jack Weaver said:


> 1) The *Reply space* is separated from the thread by an advertising banner. A little obnoxious.
> 
> 2) Where is the '*Currently Online*' status that was on the portal of the old site? I found it useful when I was considering replying to a comment in a thread.
> 
> ...



Hi Jack,

Thanks for the headsup! Could you give me more information?

1- *Reply space* is separated from the thread by an advertising banner.

Andre: do you have a screenshot?

2- Where is the '*Currently Online*' status

Andre: This you mean?





You would prefer to have it on the PORTAL page?

Hope this helps!

Andre


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

ModalRealist said:


> Congratulations on rolling out the new site! It's definitely not a style we see often today, but it's kinda nice for it to be unusual.
> 
> It would be _great_ if the advertising banner at the bottom of threads could go _below_ the Reply entry box. The disjunction is quite annoying! Ditto the way the whole page "jerks" when the banner changes content.



Thank you for the note! I will see how this can be done. The "jerking" is totally annoying, I agree... I will pass this on to Frederick. Some banners are not exactly the same size it seems, and/or there may be some blanks in the rotation chamber...

Regards,

Andre


----------



## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> 2- Where is the '*Currently Online*' status
> 
> Andre: This you mean?




I don't see that in the sidebar...


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> I don't see that in the sidebar...



oh? can you send me a screenshot of what you see there? 

Thanks!


----------



## ryanstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Thank you for the note! I will see how this can be done. The "jerking" is totally annoying, I agree... I will pass this on to Frederick. Some banners are not exactly the same size it seems, and/or there may be some blanks in the rotation chamber...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andre



Just a thought you could set the area to a fixed size, that being the largest banner size, which would stop things moving around. But then you probably run into issues with responsive issues. So yeah seems like you need to have a standard ad set size for specific placements.


----------



## paoling (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> OK, the black header is gone. Also gone is the time the poster wrote his/her post. How does that look to you now?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andre



Now it's really better.


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 28, 2015)

ryanstrong said:


> Just a thought you could set the area to a fixed size, that being the largest banner size, which would stop things moving around. But then you probably run into issues with responsive issues. So yeah seems like you need to have a standard ad set size for specific placements.



Hi Ryan, are you referring to the PORTAL banners in the middle, or the FORUM banners on rotation?

The portal banners only have two sizes, same width, but some are half the height. They usually stand toward the bottom of the page. 

The forum banners have various sizes, and I think we could improve on this if we work with the advertisers to have more universal sizes. Thanks for the suggestion!

Andre


----------



## EvilDragon (Jun 28, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> oh? can you send me a screenshot of what you see there?
> 
> Thanks!



I just see New Profile Posts and Forum Statistics frames. No Members Online Now frame.


----------



## MA-Simon (Jun 28, 2015)

Yuh first post on the new one!

Thanks everyone for all the hard work that went into it! 

As others have stated before, i would have prefered a lighter and somewhat more organized and cleaner template. But we will get there in time.

So... am i the only one missing the star ratings? I kinda liked those. Back to beeing a new member now. I know that should not bother me, but it does a little


----------



## jtnyc (Jun 28, 2015)

The background on the home page is not monochrome. Just a heads up. And to be honest, it looks like a movie poster or a video game. I don't want to offend the designer, but it's distracting to me. I'd just use the charcoal color from the header where the home/forum/login tabs are, or some blue/grey similarly soft and non attention grabbing.
As I already said, the banners on the home page or totally distracting. Way to much movement. Every 5 seconds stuff is flying around. Things should be stationary on a page where someone is reading. I don't feel comfortable on this page at all, but I like the latest post overview. 

As I'm writing this, every time the banner above the reply box changes, the whole page jumps and down. 
I do concur the this banner that sits between the last post and the new reply box should be moved below the reply box. 

Thanks for listening -


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jun 29, 2015)

MA-Simon said:


> So... am i the only one missing the star ratings? I kinda liked those. Back to beeing a new member now. I know that should not bother me, but it does a little


You can have your very own custom title, if you want. Go to your account page (just click your user name in the upper right corner), and you'll see a text field right below your avatar.


----------



## mverta (Jun 29, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Thanks Mike,Sorry for the headache. Which page are you specifically referring to?Others have expressed a preference for a quieter skin. I will be looking into it as soon as possible. As for the server speed, I looked at the site using GTMetrix and you are correct, some things are pulling speed down a bit. I will be looking into this as well, of course. And will report here.



First off, since you're populating the visual field with a huge array of unpredictable tones in banners and ads, you absolutely want to push the site design into neutrals to avoid a constant color clash. This will also make the advertiser's banners look more attractive. Similarly, even background images with strong geometric features and high contrast fatigue the viewer quickly. Using a responsive theme which can be set to full-width is also a good idea, and helps stop from dating the site's design. I think you will find that by setting the site's color palette to mid-low neutrals and avoiding primary colors, you'll instantly be in a better position. The large-real-estate flashing banners jumping the pages around aren't helping the professional tone of the experience either - it's making things feel cheap and porn-site-y. Not that I would know.

With even a quick palette replacement, you can feel your eyes relax:







Of course, there are a billion ways to do this with lighter themes, as well, but I wanted to provide some sort of example quickly.


----------



## synergy543 (Jun 29, 2015)

Mike's example is soothing relief on my eyes! Please make this available ASAP!


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jun 29, 2015)

synergy543 said:


> Mike's example is soothing relief on my eyes! Please make this available ASAP!


You really think he'll give up his writer's share?


----------



## synergy543 (Jun 29, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> You really think he'll give up his writer's share?


I dunno... its a grey area. 

Honestly, the background image is fun for a second or two but then becomes EXTREMELY DISTRACTING. NOT UNLIKE IF WE ALL WERE WRITING IN CAPS!

So some sensible relief is in order. Its clear though that the designer does like this extremely colorful style. Nevertheless, it makes sense to hear positive feedback from other graphic designers such as Mike who makes an excellent case to present an option for a more soothing palette on the eyes. While the current image is "cool" its a visual bombardment over time, sort of like listening to EPIC music compressed to 0dB constantly. After a while, it grates on you. Unless (shivers for a sec) maybe the forum has truly gone EPIC only?


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Jun 29, 2015)

First off, congratulations on the new forum! I realize that a lot of hard work must have gone into it. There might be a couple of kinks, but I'm sure that when they're ironed out it's gonna be really great.

That said, I wholly agree with those who find the design distracting and too much. Of course it's a personal taste thing, and it seems a lot of people don't mind the "more is more" design ethos, but I think there should at least be another V.I. branded option for those of us who thinks planets, lens flares and chrome belongs firmly in the last century.
Maybe just a "minimal" version of the same theme? I have a lot of suggestions for tweaks that could be done (also just to increase consistency in the current theme), and would love to contribute some CSS code to help it along.


----------



## Øivind (Jun 29, 2015)

Looking really good, a little constructive feedback, as i hope it will be taken as such 
The profile box to the left has a bit to much things going on. I made a superquick sketch that
shows something less distracting, using Mr. Vertas profile, hope that is ok 
Other than that, i also support Mike Vertas comment on the color scheme.

Great work so far! :D


----------



## Christof (Jun 29, 2015)

What about a chat function?
So that we can comment on epic tracks before we even heard them


----------



## Guy Rowland (Jun 29, 2015)

Well done Andre for getting us all this far. Functionality is far superior to v1, and I find it much easier to read on the iPad and iPhone - easy to see the poster and read the text without any nasty horizontal scrolling.

I know you're fixing glitches and making improvements bit by bit, no need to for me to add to comments folks have already said, here's just a few extra things. I find the vanilla XenBase style suits me better, but it doesn't seem to be applied in the threads discussions themselves. My favicon in Chrome has changed to a G in a black circle, which is a little odd. Finally is there any chance of a static page which is just most recent posts? The New Posts option isn't a static page, and the recent posts column on the portal page is a bit scrunched up on small devices.

Like I say, these are nitpicks, really liking the new functionality - cheers.


----------



## pkm (Jun 29, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Concerning "Tapatalk" that is not something I was asked for, but will look into it. How much use do you make of it?


'

I use it all the time. The new mobile site for vi-control is really great, but it's nice to be able to go into one app for all of my forums.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jun 29, 2015)

Thank you Creative Forge for the ignore and follow features. It will make my experience here more pleasant and I am sure for many others.

I must say however the "like" feature is a little too High School/Facebook for my taste.


----------



## paoling (Jun 29, 2015)

I like the "I like". It's nice and more elegant than the classical
(quote)
+1 posts


----------



## jtnyc (Jun 29, 2015)

I like the "new posts" page option instead of looking at the home page which has "latest posts" on the right side, as to avoid the banner ad show. The odd thing is, those lists are different. In "latest posts" on the home page I can see a post I made. On the "new posts" page posts that I created aren't there. Kind of strange.

+1 for mikes approach for a more soothing overall look.


----------



## jtnyc (Jun 29, 2015)

The rotation of the banner ads on the home page was slowed down from every 5 seconds to every 7 or 8. While I appreciate the effort, it doesn't change the overall level of distraction. For me, even the ads that have animation in them are annoying. It's like Times Square. I would have no animating ads and swap out the list every 60 seconds. I believe on V1 they didn't swap out at all, just changed every time the page loaded. That would be ideal.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Jun 29, 2015)

(oop, one more glitch - clicking the latest posts links in the portal opens in a new tab in Chrome, and goes to page 1 not the most recent).


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jun 29, 2015)

paoling said:


> I like the "I like". It's nice and more elegant than the classical
> (quote)
> +1 posts




I am not talking about the implementation, I am talking about the concept.


----------



## Deleted member 8496 (Jun 29, 2015)

Loving the new search function. 
Seems easier to find relevant topics, and you can finally hit ENTER to start the search :D


----------



## playz123 (Jun 29, 2015)

Is the new forum using some sort of streaming connection to YouTube or similar? Tried to log in from a courtesy WiFi location yesterday, and wasn't allowed to access this forum. A message stated something to the effect that streaming wasn't permitted and YouTube was mentioned. Andre, if you are in Canada, the site was BC Ferries.
Also finding the site a little too cluttered for my tastes, but will get used to it. Miss the little flags showing the respondents country and the stars for years served, but since we are all new members again, I'm sure we will adapt eventually.  Carry on...nice to have the forum back on line.


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 29, 2015)

jtnyc said:


> The rotation of the banner ads on the home page was slowed down from every 5 seconds to every 7 or 8. While I appreciate the effort, it doesn't change the overall level of distraction. For me, even the ads that have animation in them are annoying. It's like Times Square. I would have no animating ads and swap out the list every 60 seconds. I believe on V1 they didn't swap out at all, just changed every time the page loaded. That would be ideal.



Hi, it went from 7 seconds to 15 seconds, which I hoped would be enough to allow time for both visitors and advertising to be happy. I'll talk to Frederick to explore other solutions...

Regards,

Andre


----------



## synthpunk (Jun 29, 2015)

Are url links, jpg, soundcloud, youtube, flash, etc active yet? I know spitfire reported in the commercial section that they could not post flash audio.

Keep up the hard work Andre.


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 29, 2015)

CHANGE CAN BE A B... 

...eautiful thing...  I want to thank everyone who is sending encouraging words concerning all the new changes. It is heart-warming to read how some of you are discovering new features you love, and how it makes things easier, faster, better looking on mobile, etc. 

For all cosmetic preferences, I understand all of your suggestions and demands. I will look into it. Bear in mind, though, that my work as a designer and developer is basically completed. And Frederick is truly satisfied with it. Which is where my first concern is of course, I'm sure you can understand. 

So I am now fixing things, tweaking, helping out as part of delivering the final product and making sure it's working great. So beside minimal changes, there won't be extensive graphic design or template modification work. Unless new budgets are released, that is. I'm not hired full-time by Frederick, this was a contract which I will honor till completion, including making sure everything works right. 

So be patient, dear friends, the message - and every single suggestion - has been heard loud and clear. Now it's a matter of implementing what we can, which will come gradually. Xenforo is a powerful and complex platform and sometimes making little changes demands multiple steps. But we're still plugging along.

...keep on being a great community! There is no other forum quite like this one!  

Regards,

Andre


----------



## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 29, 2015)

mverta said:


> First off, since you're populating the visual field with a huge array of unpredictable tones in banners and ads, you absolutely want to push the site design into neutrals to avoid a constant color clash. This will also make the advertiser's banners look more attractive. Similarly, even background images with strong geometric features and high contrast fatigue the viewer quickly. Using a responsive theme which can be set to full-width is also a good idea, and helps stop from dating the site's design. I think you will find that by setting the site's color palette to mid-low neutrals and avoiding primary colors, you'll instantly be in a better position. The large-real-estate flashing banners jumping the pages around aren't helping the professional tone of the experience either - it's making things feel cheap and porn-site-y. Not that I would know.
> 
> With even a quick palette replacement, you can feel your eyes relax:
> 
> ...




This would be a good change, I think - although perhaps with an option for dark text on a lighter background as well.

I'm sure there's a 'graphic design 101' type commandment list somewhere with,

_ 'Thou shalt not use more than two font styles in a design or banner' 
'Thou shalt not use high-contrast images with many different elements in a background image'
_

A quick question on searching - I just tried to search "control surface" - but instead of searching for that phrase, with the words in that order (like google) the forum searched for posts which contained either of those two words.

Is it possible to search for a phrase like "control surface" to see posts or threads which specifically mention those two words in that order?


Everything else seems to be working great - must have been a mammoth task to switch over and design/test everything. Well done with it all!


----------



## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 29, 2015)

Oh - and the 'new posts' area is brilliant. Loads better than the previous forum where a small number of posts were stuck down the side. :D

Mobile/tablet experience is vastly improved also.


----------



## mverta (Jun 29, 2015)

wilx said:


> I'm sure there's a 'graphic design 101' type commandment list somewhere with,



There is, and so far the layout breaks pretty much all of it.


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 29, 2015)

wilx said:


> I'm sure there's a 'graphic design 101' type commandment list somewhere with,
> 
> _ 'Thou shalt not use more than two font styles in a design or banner'
> 'Thou shalt not use high-contrast images with many different elements in a background image'_



Hmmm... we are not responsible for the graphic design of advertisers banners. And we are thinking about all the suggestions to see what to do next. 

1- advertising has always been part of VI-Control, except that the former layout may have hid them better, which is not necessarily for the better.

2- we need to come to a compromise so that the TWO groups of users be happy with the forum as much as possible when it comes to fulfill their particular needs. Developers AND Composers both have expectations and we definitely just can't tell one to forget about theirs. We have to work within this paradigm.

3- if you think the layout or advertising is "bad" here, let's just say that I have seen "bad" - and it's NOT here. 

Thank you for your feedback everyone, I hope it's OK to encourage you to be patient... 

Regards,

Andre


----------



## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 29, 2015)

Here's a quick, tiny fix: one of the forum links at the top misspelles libraries as *librairies. 

*


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 29, 2015)

wilx said:


> Here's a quick, tiny fix: one of the forum links at the top misspelles libraries as *librairies.
> *



I looked but couldn't find, could you send me the page it's on?

Thanks!


----------



## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 29, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> I looked but couldn't find, could you send me the page it's on?
> 
> Thanks!



On http://vi-control.net/portal/ - it's the third link at the very top - _welcome; enter forum; Virtual Instruments & Sample Libraries_


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 29, 2015)

wilx said:


> On http://vi-control.net/portal/ - it's the third link at the very top - _welcome; enter forum; Virtual Instruments & Sample Libraries_



Awesome, thanks for the heads-up! My French is showing...


----------



## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 29, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Awesome, thanks for the heads-up!



No worries - and I've just realised you can quote posts by highlighting text in a post - a dark blue 'reply' button pops up and clicking it quotes the selected text. That's a nice little time-saver.


----------



## tack (Jun 29, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> 1- advertising has always been part of VI-Control, except that the former layout may have hid them better, which is not necessarily for the better.


At least a short term fix until you can think of something cleverer: for the div (or whatever element) that is to contain the ads, choose a fixed height that safely covers the gamut of the ads you'll serve, and then do overflow:hidden just to be on the safe side. If the height is your max case, you'll never overflow, but it's there just to prevent the page from reflowing.

Even if this causes some wasted space for some ads, it's going to be vastly better than having the pages reflowing and bouncing around while you're reading/typing. (I'm going to be honest here, I've already blocked the ads, which is something I've never done on vi-forum before. I hope I'm able to remove those filters soon.)


----------



## Brendon Williams (Jun 29, 2015)

Overall I'm really liking V2 so far, and it's really nice to have mobile support now. Lots of other great features as well. I'm really not into the over-the-top, cheap looking art on the home page and in the background though. Anyone else reminded of these classic cheesy wolf shirts?


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 29, 2015)

aesthete said:


> Are url links, jpg, soundcloud, youtube, flash, etc active yet? I know spitfire reported in the commercial section that they could not post flash audio.
> 
> Keep up the hard work Andre.



Hi, I'm looking into it, have you experienced issues as well with posting media? 

I did not see this thread in the commercial section... I'll have to look.

Thanks!

Andre


----------



## Sonokinetic BV (Jun 29, 2015)

the media links are active following the new format required. Soundcloud doesn't show the whole set though, only the first item from a set. Also, there seems to be a limit of 5 media items in a post, which we tend to exceed quite a lot


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 29, 2015)

Hi Sonokinetic,

I increased the number of media to 25. Could you test it?

Also could you send me a link to a post you made that has more than 5 media items?

Regards,

Andre


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jun 29, 2015)

wilx said:


> On http://vi-control.net/portal/ - it's the third link at the very top - _welcome; enter forum; Virtual Instruments & Sample Libraries_



I spotted another one: It says Sample*s* Libraries...


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 29, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> I spotted another one: It says Sample*s* Libraries...



But shouldn't it be "Samples Libraries?" as in Libraries of Samples?


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> But shouldn't it be "Samples Libraries?" as in Libraries of Samples?


Yeah, I agree. It sounds logical that way; it's a collection of samples. Then again, I've never seen a developer announcing their new Samples Library.

Hm...


----------



## EvilDragon (Jun 30, 2015)

Collapse state of subforum sections is still not persistent. Last night it was all fine, now I woke up and they're all expanded again...


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> Collapse state of subforum sections is still not persistent. Last night it was all fine, now I woke up and they're all expanded again...



Not sure how they would operate that in Xenforo, if it's to do with cookies. Have you tried cleaning allyour cache, disable Ad Blocker and try? It may or may not work. 

I'll ask tomorrow, though...

Andre


----------



## EvilDragon (Jun 30, 2015)

AdBlock has nothing to do with it at all - this happened before I started employing it. Clearing the cache didn't help either.


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> AdBlock has nothing to do with it at all - this happened before I started employing it. Clearing the cache didn't help either.



OK, I was just running through some ideas. So as soon as you log out, all the settings are lost.


----------



## Øivind (Jun 30, 2015)

i might have missed something regarding this style being available? but the Default Style is looking really nice! Does not seem to be active on all sub forums yet? but it gets my vote for sure :D


----------



## Guy Rowland (Jun 30, 2015)

oivind_rosvold said:


> i might have missed something regarding this style being available? but the Default Style is looking really nice! Does not seem to be active on all sub forums yet? but it gets my vote for sure :D



I thought that too - unfortunately it was clarified that this isn't an alternate skin, but rather part of the main one, so it won't work consistently within the forum.


----------



## Øivind (Jun 30, 2015)

Guy Rowland said:


> I thought that too - unfortunately it was clarified that this isn't an alternate skin, but rather part of the main one, so it won't work consistently within the forum.


Ah ok  

edit: It is extremely light compared to the main/new one tho, the one with the background image is actually very sluggish to scroll on my computer.

Would love to have the Default style as an option to use.


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

oivind_rosvold said:


> Ah ok
> 
> edit: It is extremely light compared to the main/new one tho, the one with the background image is actually very sluggish to scroll on my computer.
> 
> Would love to have the Default style as an option to use.



We're looking into options right now. A more subdued theme seems to be something a few people prefer. After working hours on Kontakt, Reason, and other vst-instruments, I'm sure the eyes favour something quieter when trying to read text... 

We will let you know when we have something solid to offer...

Regards,

Andre


----------



## Øivind (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> We're looking into options right now. A more subdued theme seems to be something a few people prefer. After working hours on Kontakt, Reason, and other vst-instruments, I'm sure the eyes favour something quieter when trying to read text...
> 
> We will let you know when we have something solid to offer...
> 
> ...


Thanks, very much appreciated! And thank you for your hard work!


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## jcs88 (Jun 30, 2015)

I'd love a less busy theme as well..way too many graphics/colours for me.


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## EvilDragon (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> OK, I was just running through some ideas. So as soon as you log out, all the settings are lost.



Nope, I'm not logging out at all, that's the catch!


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## mark.warman (Jun 30, 2015)

I cannot begin to imagine how much hard work this website re-design represents - thank you André for all your hard work thus far and particularly for the patient and accommodating way in which you are dealing with all our comments. The new colour palette, graphic design and intrusive ads are not to my taste, but then I didn't commission your work! My question concerns the moving header graphic at the top of the "Portal" page. My usual way of interacting with the site is to log on to that page first, click on a heading from the list of new/updated threads, read through that conversation then return to the Portal page. Every time I do, my eye is distracted by the movement of the "enter" graphic repeating the same action I saw last time. Is it possible that it could be stationary for subsequent visits to that page?


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## Sonokinetic BV (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Hi Sonokinetic,
> 
> I increased the number of media to 25. Could you test it?
> 
> ...



Hi Andre,

Existing threads didn't seem to be restricted by that limit, so they seem to be fine. I will let you know if the new limit works on our next mega post 

One comment we have is that the font size of the thread titles seems very large, so there are a vastly reduced number of threads per page than the previous forum. I can see this leading to more duplicate threads on busy days where its not immediately obvious someone has just posted about a particular topic. It kind of changes the dynamic of what is perceived to be current too.


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## mark.warman (Jun 30, 2015)

Further investigation shows that each time I clicked on a thread title from the "Portal" page, I was (unknowingly) opening a new full screen window. After reading the thread and then clicking on the "Home" icon, I now see that I am opening a *new* "Portal" page instead of returning to the original one! Hence my repeated viewing of the moving header. What I need to do is *close* the newly-opened thread window to reveal the original underneath. Unless someone can suggest a better way...


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## Pietro (Jun 30, 2015)

I a have a request to inspect how the forum looks on iPad. I guess, many of us browse it on iPads. Using it in horizontal mode, there is too much noise against information. For example, the left panel, with user avatar seems to have too many dominant and inconsistent elements:
- background behind avatars
- slightly rounded "contact" bar, with a blueish separator
- black bar below user name
- bottom rounded bar
- everything in a separate rectangular container, with a black edge and a little shade
- the arrow next to the container

Too much, in my opinion. Half of that could go, and you could make the square/rounded edges consistent (all sqaure). Also, info on when a user joined seems unnecessary, if one is interested in this, will click on the avatar and check.

Generally, on iPad everything seems very big. In horizontal mode, when on top of the page, only about 3 lines of posts are being visible. In horizontal mode, the maximum number of posts you can see at a time is 2 (!). This is largely due to the avatar panel, covering half of the screen.

The top/bottom arrows then don't work as expected, directing me to the very top of the page (which is 3 lines of text, while most of the rest is title bars and ads), or to the very bottom of the page, which is the huge ad on the bottom, covering whole screen. My suggestion is for those to direct to the navigation bar above the first topic and to the bottom of the forum, including last posts and the reply field above it.

I usually like changes, you know. I like new. But this time, I believe in current state, the function of the forum has been reduced in favor of some unnecessary elements, which then are dominating the overall layout (like the avatar panel).

And lastly, the background image - if there was a poll, I would vote for no. Three reasons - it's unnecessary, it's distracting, and in my experience, this is the very element that makes the page scrolling very slow.

It's great, that you are reading all this. Hope we can make the forum even better this way. For now, I have noticed, I stopped visiting, if I don't have to visit, which is sad.

- Piotr


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## re-peat (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> and it's NOT here


Actually, André, there is. And plenty of it, I’m afraid. The design of V.I. is now so bad and (as far as I’m concerned) tasteless that I, for one, can no longer function in it. I really can’t. Too ugly.

This will be my only and final post in V.I. 2.0. Unless and until, that is, the whole place is completely redesigned again, and hopefully by someone who knows what he/she’s doing.

Some people will no doubt interpret this as a personal attack, and in a way it very much is, I suppose, because you have effectively ruined the one place on the internet that has been very important to me for the past 10 years, and it’s leaving me extremely sad and quite angry. But this post is just as much triggered by the complete lack of designing competence and absence of common sense which your work displays, and these are not so much personal issues, but strictly professional observations related to the art and craft of graphic design (which I happen to know a thing or two about, and which I care very much about as well).

And sorry, but there is no nice way to say what I have to say.

The first and biggest mistake is that you’ve dressed V.I. in a very specific visual style which only appeals to a very limited number of people. You don’t do that with a forum like V.I. the membership of which is as diverse and multi-cultured as it is. You might do it for a forum dedicated to, say, death metal, or ‘fim noir’, or fashion of the 60’s, or something — in which case the appropriate graphic design very much suggests itself — but NOT with a forum like V.I. which is simply too wide in its subject matter (and therefore in the people it attracts) for any specific visual style to appeal to all of them. Huuuuge mistake. What you should have done instead, is opt for a very neutral, subdued, non-distracting graphic dressing, free from any particular association, so that no one has to feel ill at ease here.

Secondly: we don’t come here to look at an André Lefebvre Exhibition, we come here to talk about music. But you force your work upon us wherever we look, making the whole thing unbearbably pretentious and presumptous. And stupid.

The design of a forum — and again: especially a forum like this — should never and nowhere draw attention to itself, and if it does, it should be in a strictly functional, unobtrusive and tasteful way. In that sense it is not unlike underscoring which remains in the background and subtly carries and/or enhances a scene. But you have produced a ‘visual score’ for this forum which is constantly blaring out a fortissimo tutti of the ugliest kind and at a most offensive level.

Thirdly: the banner assault is simply ridiculous. There’s no other word for it. Obnoxious to such an extent that any sane man is left with no other option than to reach for AdBlocker. It’s not that we want to, but you force us to. (I never used AdBlocker before, but you made me buy it. Instantly. And what a relief it is proving to be: V.I. is still ugly as hell, but at least all the banners are gone.)
You’ve actually went so far with this, that I’m sure the effect will be the exact opposite of what you envisaged: not only are many of the members in a constant state of irritation (or they’ve turned to AdBlocker), but I can’ t imagine developers being too happy about it either, seeing as their banners are now dissolving in tidal wave of commercial messages and only emerge to the surface for a mere few seconds every once in a while.
And as if the constant banner fireworks isn’t bad enough already, there’s also that big ugly, black logo-graveyard at the bottom, which is just preposterous. (That was the first thing I removed with AdBlocker.)

To pick just two telling examples of how bad the graphic design is:
The login pane. That should be a simple, neutral-looking panel, but somehow you managed to make even that look ugly and amateuristic: you’ve got a frame with angular corners inside a frame with rounded corners inside another frame with angular corners, on top of yet another frame with small rounded corners … That’s FOUR superimposed frames, where one would have been enough. Ghastly sunday-school design that is. It also contains the title twice, some of its fields are poorly alligned, you’ve got some black text on a dark grey background, the login button itself is inconsistent with the rest, … in short, the whole thing screams: run as fast and as far away as you can from here if you’re sensitive to incompetent, bad design. And that’s just the login panel.

Even worse however, are those horrible avatar constructions (or ‘profile boxes’, or whatever they’re called), to the left of the posts. Seriously, what were you thinking? Not only are they among the most repulsive looking things I have ever seen, they’re also 6 times too big for the function they have. (Before V.I.’s disastrous make-over, the ‘Epic Music’-thread was, if I recall correctly, 10 pages long. Now, it is 22 pages. That’s more than double its original length, and largely because of those oversized avatar containers. A totally unnecessary and ugly waste of space.) I deleted my Mingus-avatar the second I saw those things, the combination of the two was simply too painful to behold.

Your use of fonts and typography is awful, your alignment skills appear to be non-existent, your colour combinations hurt the eye, your Photoshop-antics give the place a cheap and outdated look (trance music of the 80’s and 90’s used to be presented with these type of visual effects), your decisions regarding which elements are important and which are not, are illogical, confusing and unconducive (and also reveal that you don’t really seem to have a clue about what it is to be an active member on a forum such as this), … in fact, the list is of fatal flaws and mistakes is staggering.

Personally, I’m also somewhat annoyed by the ‘I like’- and ’Award trophy’-sillyness which, in my view, has no place on a serious forum, but since this sort of nonsense seems to be unavoidable these days, I suppose we’re expected to be able to ignore it. Still, I loath it.

Anyway. This is my view on the whole thing. No congratulations from me, as you will have gathered by now. Quite the contrary. Deeply annoyed and disappointed that a second-rate graphic designer was chosen to re-design a meeting place which is of such importance to thousands of people, and ended up mutilating the place beyond all recognition.

Some may think I’m exaggerating or doing some drama-queen routine, but trust me, I’m not. Every second now spent on V.I. is one of immense irritation, anger and disappointment.

All that’s left for me to do then, is bid a fond farewell to a handful of people. And mention that anyone who’s interested in starting up a whole new forum to discuss music-related matters: I’m all for it and readier than ever to help set it up.

_


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 30, 2015)

Enjoyed your posts. Farewell, Piet, and I hope you find what you're looking for. It obviously isn't here.


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## Christof (Jun 30, 2015)

re-peat said:


> Some may think I’m exaggerating or doing some drama-queen routine, but trust me, I’m not. Every second now spent on V.I. is one of immense irritation, anger and disappointment.


Come on, it's just some graphics!The content of the posts will be the same.
Would someone get divorced from a beautiful partner just because the partner ends up ugly and invalid in a wheelchair after an accident?
I exaggerate of course because for me this place is still pretty the same as before, but I see no reason to get angry.


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## Guy Rowland (Jun 30, 2015)

Oh my lord - the PietBomb.

Actually Piet isn't the first to say "I just can't cope with this" (though naturally has said so with the most bluntness). It would be a very bad thing indeed to lose his voice altogether however, or Kenk's, or other experienced composers like them. I'm surprised by the hostility shown by some, but it does seem entirely genuine in its offence. For me, every one of the issues raised is nothing more than mild-to-medium irritation, and the plusses (especially the forum search, which is an order of magnitude better than before) vastly outweigh them. And unlike Piotr, I do already find it easier to read on an iPad - a few more tweaks would improve it still further.

But as I said on Kenk's thread, this place IS the people. Whatever I might think, if the changes raise the danger of some of our most thoughtful members running for the hills, it is a more serious situation that I thought.

Perhaps I'm underestimating the work involved, but it seems an awful lot of the misgivings raised are relatively simple fixes. Get the ads in check (I do agree with Piet here that it is absolutely inevitable that people will use adblocker if its an assault on the senses / has stuff like the page jumping around every 15 seconds, so this is the best solution for advertisers as well as members... and boy there is an irony of all the fundraising leading to a new forum where advertising is more aggressive). Then simplify the overall design and over-prominent avatar stuff, lose the background image to a simple neutral colour, lose the likes and continue with the glitch fixes like opening pages in new tabs. Most of these things seem to be cited repeatedly in this thread, so don't think there's much that's contentious. (is there?) Just a calmer more neutral environment all round, with (nearly) all excellent new functionality should be the goal here, surely?


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 30, 2015)

The forum works, the database and accounts seem to be intact and working well, and a lot of the functionality has been significantly improved - quoting, searching, recent post visibility, mobile/tablet experience etc.


I think a huge amount of credit and thanks is due for getting us to this point. Many people have issues with the design - I agree that it's quite 'loud' and probably breaks a lot of design rules in terms of legibility, fonts, colours etc, but I think re-peat's rant (even by his own admission) was unnecessarily hostile. Just tweaking the background, header and the space/image behind the avatars in threads will help massively.

The design comments have been received & acknowledged, so I'm sure we will see some improvements once everything else is settled and working well. I think Andre probably deserves a day or two off at least after such an undertaking!

A quick question on searching - is it possible to use a google-style quotes string, to search for a phrase, like "phase-locked samples"? Currently that will search for those three words, but not as a phrase in that specific order.


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## sleepy hollow (Jun 30, 2015)

wilx said:


> A quick question on searching - is it possible to use a google-style quotes string, to search for a phrase, like "phase-locked samples"? Currently that will search for those three words, but not as a phrase in that specific order.


I think having a google-style search engine is every forum admin's dream, but I guess that this is very difficult or maybe even impossible to implement. I've seen a small "google search this forum" window on a couple of other forums. Maybe this is an alternative?


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## sin(x) (Jun 30, 2015)

Some of the new functionality is very welcome, and as the old forum had been showing its age for quite some time, I applaud the effort to do a complete overhaul. But sadly I have to join the chorus of people who are really unhappy with how it turned out visually.

The design is incredibly busy and hard on the eyes, utterly fails to focus the eye toward the parts that actually matter (think about it… the friggin' _actual post text_ is now _practically the only element_ that's not somehow framed, beveled, overlaid, or put into harsh contrasting colors), and wastes a huge amount of screen estate for gizmos that even more adventurous users won't use more than 0.1% of the time they spend here. Why does the sidebar for profile pictures take up a fifth of the screen width? Why is the footer of signature, reply bar, "x likes this", and post separator twice as high as the actual content in every third post? Why does the static top bar claim permanent screen space for functions that could just as well be hidden in a burger dropdown button in the corner? And as for the banners and the massive memorial site of sponsors at the bottom of every page… sorry, I do feel bad of messing with your ad eyeballs, but right now I regard using AdBlock as basic self defense against the barrage of aggressive visual fluff thrown at me.

As often, Piet's style causes my brain to cramp up trying to reconcile my feeling that it must be possible to get these points across in a less assaulting manner, feeling bad for the the unlucky soul who happens to be on the receiving end, and secret relief that someone's left who dares to get the points across without sugarcoating them. As for me, this place has always been a most welcome coffee break hangout with a quirky and ancient, but ultimately unoffensive user experience – these past days, I'm sad to admit that I found myself struggling through the 2-3 threads that actually interest me enough to get through their posts with gnashed teeth, then get the heck back to my other coffee break refuges.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 30, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> I think having a google-style search engine is every forum admin's dream, but I guess that this is very difficult or maybe even impossible to implement



I had a search for this (no pun intended) and it looks as though it might be a xenforo search limitation. Pity.


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 30, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> I think having a google-style search engine is every forum admin's dream, but I guess that this is very difficult or maybe even impossible to implement. I've seen a small "google search this forum" window on a couple of other forums. Maybe this is an alternative?



I get the frustration. And Google search is an excellent search engine. For normal websites, it's a no brainer. The pricing is all based on query count. The price to enact google search for between 5000-7000 active members out of a membership of 10,000 can add up astronomically. Economics unfortunately always plays a role. The search functions here while not perfect completely smoke what we had before. That said, one Greek meaning of "perfect" is "complete". As an artist, nothing ever is, right? It's a work in progress and VI is no different. And we will always be consistently updating and improving as we go along so we're all included and relatively happy. 

Work in progress.

Thanks,

Frederick


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 30, 2015)

Frederick Russ said:


> The search functions here while not perfect completely smoke what we had before.



Agreed - and I think the Google search engine would have limitations where the currently used one works well, such as searching individual threads.


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 30, 2015)

Hi guys, we could have waited for the launch until everything was just right. I really hear the frustration about the busy-ness etc. We'll keep working at it.


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## sin(x) (Jun 30, 2015)

To add a constructive note to my post, here and http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/forum (here) are what I consider to be great examples of clean and modern (but still practical) forums that don't skimp on functionality.


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## Christof (Jun 30, 2015)

Frederick Russ said:


> Hi guys, we could have waited for the launch until everything was just right. I really hear the frustration about the busy-ness etc. We'll keep working at it.


I don't think it was too early for a launch.
It's good to hear us users and improve some small things, like in a beta test program.
Anyway it will be impossible to make everyone happy, some don't like the banner ads, some hate the like button, there are even people on this planet who dislike Mozart.


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## sin(x) (Jun 30, 2015)

Christof said:


> some don't like the banner ads, some hate the like button, there are even people on this planet who dislike Mozart.



Well that escalated quickly.


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## CDNmusic (Jun 30, 2015)

Can't please everybody eh?

The overall design is busy, yes. A flatter theme would be very much in line with today's trend.

Functionality wise 2.0 is outstanding. The search feature is much more usable now, and that's a key element for a forum such as this.


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

re-peat said:


> Actually, André, there is. And plenty of it, I’m afraid. The design of V.I. is now so bad and (as far as I’m concerned) tasteless that I, for one, can no longer function in it. I really can’t. Too ugly.
> 
> This will be my only and final post in V.I. 2.0. Unless and until, that is, the whole place is completely redesigned again, and hopefully by someone who knows what he/she’s doing.
> 
> ...



Thank you for spending so much time sharing your thoughts, re-peat. I am very sorry this is how you feel. Imagine I'm talking very normally, having a friendly conversation. 

This is the work I did, based on Frederick Russ' instructions and vision.

Frederick started this place 10 years ago, I think he knows it inside and out better than most, in every way, and as far as I can tell, he has always been very protective of it. He certainly is the one person who has orchestrated the project of a redesign, not only for looks, but even more so members get much better functionalities.

I think so far the relaunch is a success in that regard. My client is Frederick, he has the final word. More than just a tool, this forum is also a place. It wold be sad that people leave because - as this point so far - there is no alternative skin. BUT Frederick and I have talked about one months ago. So nobody is being ignored.

I however wonder why you get so worked up about it. It's not like I have done something TO you, attacked you, taken you apart publicly, insulted your abilities, your work, etc. Before today, I haven't even had the chance to read any of your posts. So can I invite you to consider that "being right" about something doesn't give you any higher moral ground. And that the more you press an issue, without allowing the other party to respond, the more the issue becomes something else?

I really want you - and everyone else - to be happy, to be here, and have the perfect forum platform. I have carried this project by myself (mostly) for months. And for a very fair price. At a loss, really. But I'm not trying to impose MY vision of things, but taking into consideration the opinions of my client, Frederick, and that of others.

Your feedback is important. Your voice counts. I would encourage you - don't let the value of what you share be drowned in an ocean of negative emotions. Otherwise, you are just doing the very same thing you blame me for doing - creating an environment that is much too loud to be comfortable. I will pull back the visual loudness, would you be willing to do the same?

So let me ask you kindly:

Would it be possible for you to skim your post of all overly personal comments about people you aim this at, and create a list of suggestions you have? It would be much more useful to me to not have to filter out all the other stuff.

I would value a more emotionally-leveled correspondence. I don't know about you, but I function better in a positive, encouraging, uplifting, respectful environment. This portion of the forum exists for feedback. We can afford to be gracious toward one another, and not engage in threats or uncalled for put-downs.

Hope this meets your approval, and we can start over?

Sincerely,

Andre Lefebvre


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## Hannes_F (Jun 30, 2015)

Is there a way to decrease the fonts? And can the line pitch be altered?
I am not talking about own posts, just for reading.


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> I think having a google-style search engine is every forum admin's dream, but I guess that this is very difficult or maybe even impossible to implement. I've seen a small "google search this forum" window on a couple of other forums. Maybe this is an alternative?



sleepy, great question! Have you tried it? because this is exactly how it's working for me here. Try searching for a string of words, and frame that string in "".

Let me know how you do!

Regards,

Andre


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## EvilDragon (Jun 30, 2015)

Hannes_F said:


> Is there a way to decrease the fonts? And can the line pitch be altered?
> I am not talking about own posts, just for reading.



Sure it can. Zoom out a single click and everything looks nicer and a bit tighter. And the browser will remember that setting, too.


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

re-peat said:


> Secondly: we don’t come here to look at an André Lefebvre Exhibition, we come here to talk about music. But you force your work upon us wherever we look, making the whole thing unbearbably pretentious and presumptous. And stupid.



Actually, I WAS hired because of my graphics style. I don't force it on you. Again, there will be an alternative skin coming soon.


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## Hannes_F (Jun 30, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> Sure it can. Zoom out a single click and everything looks nicer and a bit tighter. And the browser will remember that setting, too.



You mean the "Alt -" trick? Yes, that works, much better. Perhaps this should be imparted into som FAQ.


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## Christof (Jun 30, 2015)

Sad to learn that a simple design change can cause so many controversies.


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## sleepy hollow (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> sleepy, great question! Have you tried it? because this is exactly how it's working for me here. Try searching for a string of words, and frame that string in "".
> 
> Let me know how you do!
> 
> ...


I do have a few observations and ideas regarding the search engine. Guess I will start a new thread on that topic tomorrow, because this very thread is getting way to crowded...


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

wilx said:


> I had a search for this (no pun intended) and it looks as though it might be a xenforo search limitation. Pity.



Did you try it with quotes, wilx?


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Have you tried it? because this is exactly how it's working for me here. Try searching for a string of words, and frame that string in "".



I just tried searching this thread for "_Have You Tried It_" - and the search just looked for those individual words, not the phrase - and as such returned this error:

*The search could not be completed because the search keywords were too short, too long, or too common
*
As far as I can tell, the xenforo search won't allow for searching more than one word, like "phase locked", "col legno" or "best male choir" - it will just search for threads which contain 'best' and 'male' and 'choir', or 'best' _or_ 'choir', but not that exact phrase.


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

wilx said:


> I just tried searching this thread for "_Have You Tried It_" - and the search just looked for those individual words, not the phrase - and as such returned this error:
> 
> *The search could not be completed because the search keywords were too short, too long, or too common
> *
> As far as I can tell, the xenforo search won't allow for searching more than one word, like "phase locked", "col legno" or "best male choir" - it will just search for threads which contain 'best' and 'male' and 'choir', or 'best' _or_ 'choir', but not that exact phrase.



OK, let me look into this. It should look for strings, that's one of the features Xenforo has, if I'm not mistaken.

Back at it!

Andre


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## sleepy hollow (Jun 30, 2015)

Just did a search for _Adagio Strings_ (lol ).

I get different results, depending on wether or not I use " ".


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

Hannes_F said:


> You mean the "Alt -" trick? Yes, that works, much better. Perhaps this should be imparted into som FAQ.



Hi Hannes, could you write a short FAQ blurb I can post? That would be awesome if you could. What did you try to do, and how you fixed it.

Thanks!

Regards,

Andre


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## paoling (Jun 30, 2015)

I think that André, as a freelance working for Frederick, is really nice and helpful in handling all the issues here. But I think that is unfair to direct all those bad words to him.
It's like going into a restaurant and blaming the waiter for the quality of the food and the service.
If there's one problem you have to talk with the boss. And who's the boss here? Frederick.

Maybe Frederick gave you the "privilege" to handle the criticism and to reply to people in a place which you don't know as an external. But I think this is a job that only Frederick can do, or maybe a voluntary moderator of the forum. Someone who knows this place, who can filter all what's said and compile a list of changes for you.

This shouldn't be your competence. For many reasons. And you shouldn't follow the list of anyone outside Frederick. And maybe Frederick should be a bit more present here and collect all the issues for you. You are a technician and he is the owner and only him should be responsible of all the goods and the bads of the change.

Moreover is quite obvious that all the flaws that have been reported are just about the "default" way the xenforo forums (and this particular template) are set. So don't blame André, who simply made the transition possible in a reasonable time and without destroying anything.

If I were Frederick, I would have tried to be sure that the forum resembled the old one as much as possibile, about look and functionality. What Piet said about "neutrality" is right: forums like Gearslutz for example, just present all the info in a correct and simple way. Their platform seems old too, but I think that modernity and functionality can go together with proper thinking and work.

@sin(x) : strangely those forums are nice to read on PC but horrible on mobile...


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## sleepy hollow (Jun 30, 2015)

paoling said:


> I think that André, as a freelance working for Frederick, is really nice and helpful in handling all the issues here. But I think that is unfair to direct all those bad words to him.


Absolutely right! People need to tone it down.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 30, 2015)

Here's a search example - searching for "sample modeling" in quotes, would ideally return just results that contained that phrase. When I try, there are some results with the phrase, and others with just 'sample' in them.


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## sleepy hollow (Jun 30, 2015)

wilx said:


> Here's a search example - searching for "sample modeling" in quotes, would ideally return just results that contained that phrase. When I try, there are some results with the phrase, and others with just 'sample' in them.


No no, that's not right. The search results are good - have you actually clicked the results? Check it out, and you'll see the all those posts contain the term you were searching for.


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## synergy543 (Jun 30, 2015)

paoling said:


> What Piet said about "neutrality" is right: forums like Gearslutz for example, just present all the info in a correct and simple way.


Yes, that is true.

On my monitor 50% (25% on each side) of the screen is covered with the very distracting sharp contrast BLUE THEATER with with light beams and swirls. FB style, its only using a small center strip on my screen for text and seizure-inducing flashing ads. Is this the case with everyone? I wish I could have more text coverage than psychedelic image.


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

paoling said:


> If I were Frederick, I would have tried to be sure that the forum resembled the old one as much as possibile, about look and functionality. What Piet said about "neutrality" is right: forums like Gearslutz for example, just present all the info in a correct and simple way. Their platform seems old too, but I think that modernity and functionality can go together with proper thinking and work.



I agree, and if you notice the blue backgrounds and the blue skin, I mostly tried to replicate what existed before. The other forum you mention has its strengths and weaknesses too, and at least one more forum who attracts similar members. I made comparisons and tried to use the best ideas and let go of what I considered lesser ones. 

Hope the new skin is going to help many go back to doing what they come here to do... 

Regards,

Andre


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## jtnyc (Jun 30, 2015)

re-peat said:


> Secondly: we don’t come here to look at an André Lefebvre Exhibition, we come here to talk about music. But you force your work upon us wherever we look, making the whole thing unbearbably pretentious and presumptous. And stupid.



While I and others have expressed a dislike for parts of the new site, we do so with respect. This here is just plain disrespectful and unnecessary. Please lets not start in with these kind of personal attacks. Andre has clearly worked very hard on this and is still here dealing with it. Be nice.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 30, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> The search results are good - have you actually clicked the results? Check it out, and you'll see the all those posts contain the term you were searching for.



It looks like you're correct - thanks for pointing that out! The bolded bits in the search results are quite misleading in that case.


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## Hannes_F (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Hi Hannes, could you write a short FAQ blurb I can post? That would be awesome if you could. What did you try to do, and how you fixed it.



This might be a first fix in many cases (and it is STRG, not ALT, sorry):

*How to change the forum font size*
If you find the text fonts too big and/or the forum width too wide then do this:
Hold down the STRG key and then hit the _minus_ (-).

If you find the text fonts too small and/or the forum width too narrow then do this:
Hold down the STRG key and then hit the _plus_ (+).

Repeat to taste.

Too big:

*



*
Too small:

*



*


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

STRG key = CTRL key?


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## EvilDragon (Jun 30, 2015)

STRG is CTRL in Germany, yep.


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

On a PC, and using CTRL+ the mouse wheel, I get zoom. Same if I use CTRL+ the + and - signs. Both in Firefox and Chrome. 

So on Mac, it would be ALT+ or OPTION+ mouse wheel? etc.

Let me know?

Regards,

Andre


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## EvilDragon (Jun 30, 2015)

On Mac, I suppose it would be Command, that's what usually replaces Ctrl shortcuts there. But I'm not a Mac user so I wouldn't know if that works for each and every program cross-platform.


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## Christof (Jun 30, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> On Mac, I suppose it would be Command, that's what usually replaces Ctrl shortcuts there. But I'm not a Mac user so I wouldn't know if that works for each and every program cross-platform.


Yes on Mac it is cmd and + or -


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

Brendon Williams said:


> Overall I'm really liking V2 so far, and it's really nice to have mobile support now. Lots of other great features as well. I'm really not into the over-the-top, cheap looking art on the home page and in the background though. Anyone else reminded of these classic cheesy wolf shirts?





 I do, paintings on vans, bikes gas tanks, tees, blankets, etc. Ah the '80s, the authentic decade of real cheese...  But I think it became "cheese" because it was everywhere, and I believe that often times what is copied ad nauseum loses its meaning. 

Thanks for the memories! I'm trying, be patient...


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## Brendon Williams (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> I do, paintings on vans, bikes gas tanks, tees, blankets, etc. Ah the '80s, the authentic decade of real cheese...  But I think it became "cheese" because it was everywhere, and I believe that often times what is copied ad nauseum loses its meaning.
> 
> Thanks for the memories! I'm trying, be patient...



I want to thank you for not only handling all the harsh criticism so well that you've received here, but also for being so receptive and polite. Some people have gone far past constructive criticism to the point of personally insulting you, which is just uncalled for. Thank you for all your hard work, and hang in there! :D


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

Brendon Williams said:


> I want to thank you for not only handling all the harsh criticism so well that you've received here, but also for being so receptive and polite. Some people have gone far past constructive criticism to the point of personally insulting you, which is just uncalled for. Thank you for all your hard work, and hang in there! :D



Thanks Brendon, this means a lot to me... I believe in this community, in the spirit behind it, the legacy it carries and being real, which also entails having good and bad days. But we can all find ways to express things without getting stuck in destructiveness, even the bad stuff. Sometimes turning the other cheek is basically giving someone a chance to start over...  God knows I've needed that in my own life sometimes...

MUSICIANS HELPING MUSICIANS!

Regards,

Andre


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## synergy543 (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> But we can all find ways to express things without getting stuck in destructiveness, even the bad stuff.


Andre, let me try OK?

The Blue Theater image is really cool! (that was my first impression). And it still is. Its like a beautiful sparkle of colors in an orchestration that give you goose bumps. And that happens because you hear it for just a moment and the music moves on. Its sounds special when you get to hear it because its not always there. But if all the musicians were to freeze at that moment (imagine hitting the Quantec freeze button here guys), and continued to play that special orchestral sparkle (triangle keeps ringing, the trumpets and trombones endlessly sustain, bass drum and tympani keep rolling)....well, then after not too long, you'll start to get tired of what "was" a beautiful sound before. Even in an art gallery, you want to be able to move on after staring at a beautiful painting. Variety is the spice of life.

I see now that the Blue Theater has gotten washed out. The beauty is now gone but the note still sustains...with the same sound, only this time it has been "EQ'd". The Quantec Freeze button is still pressed, and all the instruments are still playing but it sounds like they all have blankets over them. This isn't the peaceful neutral image that many were alluding to, but rather more like pollution settling over what was a happy day of celebration in Gotham City. It doesn't solve the problem and it takes away the pristine beauty of your image.

Really what I think might be a better solution (positive idea here) is to allow for different background options and let the users select the ones they desire. Is this possible? I know you can't please all of the people all of the time, but maybe this might be the best compromise without needing to pollute your artwork. Alternatively, would be to present your artwork on the opening page and then a more neutral tone for reading on the forum pages? Just some thoughts. And many of us have had to deal with similar situations with our work too and its no fun having to redo work. With my suggestion, you might be able to please most of the people with only some slight changes. Cheers.


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

Thanks for this amazing contribution synergy53! 

Yes, I also find that the colors are asleep right now on the forum background, but I was trying to bring some of the results many people seemed to want. I wanted to try to dim the lights a bit. Your idea, on the other hand, is very commendable, and brilliantly possible. 

So let me say this to explain my approach:

Leaving the background in full color on the portal page, is my idea of a welcoming message which inspires and suggests worlds beyond the page. I wanted it to sizzle, to lift up, and to give a sense of destiny for many members who are on the road to discovery and creating their own portfolio.

The portal also presents other things: articles of interest, developer banners that are central to Vi-Control, I wanted a bit of movement as well, not just statically plastered there, but give the banners a bit of flair, grace, a bit like you'd see in the media. And as well, a glimpse of the forum's activity via the Latest Posts. It's not the forum itself, it's the lobby, if you will, the gateway, a presentation that expands the boundaries of Vi-Control and reveals and highlights some of its content.

Accessing the core of Vi-Control - the forum. I gave each category its own thematic header. I rely a lot on visual cues for my work, for navigating websites and software, having a familiar environment makes things roll faster for me. I assumed it would be the same for others, and seeing a number of posts bemoaning the unfamiliar visual landscape that met them on Vi-Control 2.0, I guess I was right. And I truly care about this. Some things can be changed, others are part of the platform and will require a minimal learning curve to become familiar with, unlike what I personally had to go through. 

Early on I was instructed to stay as close to the old site as possible, that people LOVE the soothing blue background for the content. So I took notes and replicated it here. In the end, Frederick was truly happy with everything, and we launched. 

But just as a musical creation project sometimes goes for a film, you reach some points where you wonder if you should go this or that direction. You may try both if the people hiring you give you room for it. Sometimes too, the movie is fully made, the score is done, and yet someone comes to the director with a song that is impossible to pass on. It suddenly seems to anchor the movie at a soul level in a way that wasn't happening before, we feel a state of weightlessness, of arrival, and it becomes the movie's theme song.

To me, this thread is that song. People's feedback is that song in the making. It is where people's contributions come together to stamp their own name on the whole, or hands-prints in the fresh cement. And through some kind of strange alchemy, beyond being just a communication and work tool like others, it has become the work of a community that owns it to this point of pitching in without crushing what was done before. Building up, expanding vision, making room for all, and buzzing with life - musicians helping musicians.

So I fully agree with you, and I know Frederick does too, there needs to be a way to allow people to customize a few things so that they can have their own visual cues and landmarks. I'm doing what I can to find the tools we need for this to happen. It is a work in progress, and will become of age soon. 

There have been many suggestions, and I already have implemented many of them. Some will take longer, and more trials and error maybe. But we're on our way! 

I hope I didn't go on too long, but thank you for inviting me to interact in this way... 

Regards,

Andre


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## synergy543 (Jun 30, 2015)

Andre, I'm glad some of the suggestions were helpful and its great that there will be some ability for users to make adjustments to different tastes. While Fred is the King here, its great that the denizens can give some feedback too (keep your clothes on Fred). The more eclectic musical voices we can keep in the Kingdom, the more interesting a place it will surely be for all. Thanks for being open and responsive to suggestions!


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## mverta (Jun 30, 2015)

I think it would be a good idea to remove oneself personally from the discussion and begin to acknowledge the adherence to or lack thereof of some basic precepts of aesthetic design which have been honed over thousands of years. The issues facing the site - fortunately - are very basic, foundational ones; ones which transcend whatever lofty motivations we may have for implementing them. There is nothing facing this forum which was not tackled by newspaper typesetters 100 years ago, for example. The site's navigation, weight, distribution, color, and proportions simply don't follow the exhaustively well-understood principles of clear, pleasing design. Your choices are two: 1) defend them/explain them/rationalize them to no avail or 2) Begin a systematic process of rebuilding every last aspect of the design, based on a new master layout, and realize an effortlessly clear and pleasing design. You have a lot of media to manage here - banners, articles, forum threads, navigation, etc. There was virtually no chance of having done so successfully without carefully pre-visualized layout boards for every section, including navigation flow studies and design explores. No major endeavor (this is one!) which is ultimately successful happens without this - it's just like anything else - like making a film or a commercial or a videogame. The task is Herculean if attempted by a single person, so give yourself a break. But my advice, as a person who makes at least half his living doing this sort of thing, is: start completely over. People who level personal attacks at you for this effort are just assholes. But brutal assessments of the design should be welcomed, especially in this case where people are not nitpicking; they may not be able to articulate the issues, but they're there and they're real.

If you are at all interested in facing the difficult but ultimately rewarding challenge facing this site, post a thread inviting external design concepts and I will happily direct the necessary talent to it. We can figure out how to pay for it later; right now there needs to be a plan. That said, there are plenty of people, like myself, who view this effort like a kitten that needs feeding; it feels cruel to let it go on so.

_Mike


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

mverta said:


> I think it would be a good idea to remove oneself personally from the discussion and begin to acknowledge the adherence to or lack thereof of some basic precepts of aesthetic design which have been honed over thousands of years. The issues facing the site - fortunately - are very basic, foundational ones; ones which transcend whatever lofty motivations we may have for implementing them. There is nothing facing this forum which was not tackled by newspaper typesetters 100 years ago, for example. The site's navigation, weight, distribution, color, and proportions simply don't follow the exhaustively well-understood principles of clear, pleasing design. Your choices are two: 1) defend them/explain them/rationalize them to no avail or 2) Begin a systematic process of rebuilding every last aspect of the design, based on a new master layout, and realize an effortlessly clear and pleasing design. You have a lot of media to manage here - banners, articles, forum threads, navigation, etc. There was virtually no chance of having done so successfully without carefully pre-visualized layout boards for every section, including navigation flow studies and design explores. No major endeavor (this is one!) which is ultimately successful happens without this - it's just like anything else - like making a film or a commercial or a videogame. The task is Herculean if attempted by a single person, so give yourself a break. But my advice, as a person who makes at least half his living doing this sort of thing, is: start completely over. People who level personal attacks at you for this effort are just assholes. But brutal assessments of the design should be welcomed, especially in this case where people are not nitpicking; they may not be able to articulate the issues, but they're there and they're real.
> 
> If you are at all interested in facing the difficult but ultimately rewarding challenge facing this site, post a thread inviting external design concepts and I will happily direct the necessary talent to it. We can figure out how to pay for it later; right now there needs to be a plan. That said, there are plenty of people, like myself, who view this effort like a kitten that needs feeding; it feels cruel to let it go on so.
> 
> _Mike



Thanks, Mike. I appreciate your direct and frank yet respectful note. I would like go to the core and simplify my response, since there seems to be assumptions made.

You wrote: _"Your choices are two: 1) defend them/explain them/rationalize them to no avail" _

I hope I'm not that vain. I have repeatedly thanked people for, invited and welcomed input and feedback. Your note is one of many that have come to me this way. I just took the opportunity earlier to express to synergy53, how I experienced and what guided my work during those 4 months. Frederick hired me and required specific things of me, which I tried to deliver. This is how things should be. I also did tons of research and consulted others, asked for help and suggestions, and composed with the tools I had. Bending Xenforo to do what you want it to do is not always a simple thing. But I don't see a problem in explaining the process I used. It's actually also helpful for myself. I hadn't expressed it this way before. 

Now that people have something to look at, they know what they want and what they don't like in what they see and use. And many offered excellent ideas to cover some of the areas that are lacking.

"_or 2) Begin a systematic process of rebuilding every last aspect of the design, based on a new master layout, and realize an effortlessly clear and pleasing design." _

I'm there with you IF Frederick is on board for that. I don't own the site nor the design, it is Frederick's. So he would need to be on board. This being said, I share your conviction that the site could be so much more, if the right people with the right expertise and talent could contribute.

*Let's bring the site to an even better format, break it free from the limitations of my own inadequacies. 

However, one of the key thing for me is to be able to work as a team, in collaboration. I would gladly consider such a collaborative effort. There is so much I don't know still, and could learn from professionals of the trade. And to know that Frederick would be even happier with the results, seeing members and developers loving to use it every day and share it? That is the goal, right? *

You say you do this for half of your living, Mike - I would love if you could send me a link to your work, portfolio, etc. You can PM it if you prefer? 

Thanks again for your response. I agree that this can't wait much longer, reading some of the reactions. I would hate for this interface to be a deterrent to using it. That would be a real tragedy.

What do you think?

Regards,

Andre


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## ryanstrong (Jun 30, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Thanks, Mike. I appreciate your direct and frank yet respectful note. I would like go to the core and simplify my response, since there seems to be assumptions made.
> 
> You wrote: _"Your choices are two: 1) defend them/explain them/rationalize them to no avail" _
> 
> ...



Maybe I shouldn't direct this question to you Andre but more to Frederick, but *what was the creative brief for this project?*

I agree 100% with Piet and Mike and a few others and like Mike I do design for a living, (my website is listed in my signature) and there are some definite no no's here.

A graphic user interface should just fade away. Just look around your screen if you have a Mac... just launch Apple Mail and look at it's interface. That's all a forum is... bunch of email threads going back and forth.

Going back to the creative brief... Andre if this is exactly what Frederick wanted and as you state your job is basically done then I wouldn't worry man I'd take the feedback that's on here from other designers and it's now on Frederick to listen to his community on where to go next.

If this is the world that you, Frederick, wanted to create then it is what it is.... but I pray one day the "epic graffiti" that is now painted all over our new neighborhood will one day get cleaned up.


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

Hi Ryan,

There was no "creative brief." This was a creative work, even in how it marched on.

The project was conversion and migration of the whole forum, and dressing the site with graphics. Finding and hiring the right people to take care of more technical aspects and synchronizing the work to be done, supervising it until it's accomplished fully and was properly functional.

I still have work to do to complete it all, obviously the look and feel isn't to everybody's liking. And there are technical issues I'm trying to resolve.

Yes, from his feedback, it seems I created the world Frederick wanted. I'm opened to bring - and advocate - for changes he would also appreciate, though. We can give people a few more choices I'm sure. But not at the cost of mutual respect... so if we could stop with the critical comments? That would do my soul good. I'm a sensitive type, and it took a lot out of me to stand through some of the verbal storms that got hurled at me today...

Let's talk? 

Hope this answers your questions,

Regards,

Andre


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

ryanstrong said:


> Maybe I shouldn't direct this question to you Andre but more to Frederick, but *what was the creative brief for this project?*
> 
> If this is the world that you, Frederick, wanted to create then it is what it is.... but I pray one day the "epic graffiti" that is now painted all over our new neighborhood will one day get cleaned up.



I just looked and you do awesome work, I do love it. It would be great to have your kind of expertise on board for Frederick and the whole forum. Probably much better than anything I could do.


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## creativeforge (Jun 30, 2015)

mverta said:


> I think it would be a good idea to remove oneself personally from the discussion and begin to acknowledge the adherence to or lack thereof of some basic precepts of aesthetic design which have been honed over thousands of years. The issues facing the site - fortunately - are very basic, foundational ones; ones which transcend whatever lofty motivations we may have for implementing them. There is nothing facing this forum which was not tackled by newspaper typesetters 100 years ago, for example. The site's navigation, weight, distribution, color, and proportions simply don't follow the exhaustively well-understood principles of clear, pleasing design. Your choices are two: 1) defend them/explain them/rationalize them to no avail or 2) Begin a systematic process of rebuilding every last aspect of the design, based on a new master layout, and realize an effortlessly clear and pleasing design. You have a lot of media to manage here - banners, articles, forum threads, navigation, etc. There was virtually no chance of having done so successfully without carefully pre-visualized layout boards for every section, including navigation flow studies and design explores. No major endeavor (this is one!) which is ultimately successful happens without this - it's just like anything else - like making a film or a commercial or a videogame. The task is Herculean if attempted by a single person, so give yourself a break. But my advice, as a person who makes at least half his living doing this sort of thing, is: start completely over. People who level personal attacks at you for this effort are just assholes. But brutal assessments of the design should be welcomed, especially in this case where people are not nitpicking; they may not be able to articulate the issues, but they're there and they're real.
> 
> If you are at all interested in facing the difficult but ultimately rewarding challenge facing this site, post a thread inviting external design concepts and I will happily direct the necessary talent to it. We can figure out how to pay for it later; right now there needs to be a plan. That said, there are plenty of people, like myself, who view this effort like a kitten that needs feeding; it feels cruel to let it go on so.
> 
> _Mike



Hi Mike, I was just on your site - funny thing is, today I took out the very same background to see if it would work on the forum... 

Beautiful work you do, we see the difference between a good-willed amateur and a real professional... Well done!

Regards,

Andre


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## mverta (Jul 1, 2015)

Well look, we know what Frederick really wants - it's the same thing the developers want, what we want, what everybody wants - an experience that makes you want to come to it, engage with it, return to it, and share it. The medium is sort of secondary. I direct a lot of television commercials - the process is identical to composing music; you either know how to connect with people dramatically and tell a story or you do not. In one case you manipulate tones, in the other you manipulate actors. But drama, tone, style, composition, "orchestration"... these are ubiquitous traits of successful creative endeavors.

We love this place. I seriously recommend starting a temporary sub-forum or thread for co-operative design ideas. Ryan and I aren't the only ones with ideas, believe me. But the way I would suggest we start is with a pinterest-like artboard; cast the widest net for inspirations on the general shape of the site, first. A top-down approach. The opening page of a site is like the opening notes of a main title; gotta get them hooked immediately. Mocking up ideas in Photoshop is simple, free, and creatively without limit. This community is about musicians helping musicians, and it works. Well, designers are allowed to help musicians, too. 

And by the way, Andre - I believe deeply that we should embrace criticisms, not hold fast against them. We are only as good as the hardest thing we're willing to hear. It is better to deserve praise than to get it.


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## creativeforge (Jul 1, 2015)

mverta said:


> Well look, we know what Frederick really wants - it's the same thing the developers want, what we want, what everybody wants - a site that makes you want to come to it, engage with it, return to it, and share it. The medium is sort of secondary. I direct a lot of television commercials - the process is identical to composing music; you either know how to connect with people dramatically and tell a story or you do not. In one case you manipulate tones, in the other you manipulate actors. But drama, tone, style, composition, "orchestration"... these are ubiquitous traits of successful creative endeavors.
> 
> We love this place. I seriously recommend starting a temporary sub-forum or thread for co-operative design ideas. Ryan and I aren't the only ones with ideas, believe me. But the way I would suggest we start is with a pinterest-like artboard; cast the widest net for inspirations on the general shape of the site, first. A top-down approach. The opening page of a site is like the opening notes of a main title; gotta get them hooked immediately. Mocking up ideas in Photoshop is simple, free, and creatively without limit. This community is about musicians helping musicians, and it works. Well, designers are allowed to help musicians, too.




And that's what I want too. I already wrote Frederick and sent him your posts/feedback. I strongly encouraged him to contact you. And we'll talk tomorrow him and I. There are features I need to complete and make functional, I just can't wait to have everything flowing in the right direction. This forum allows images bigger than before, and displays them well.

Let me talk to Frederick tomorrow to get this going. Then let's figure out how to put it all together and make it happen. But I'll need you guys to write the score.

Designers are often my go-to source of inspiration, so heck yeah! 

Cheers,

Andre


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## Carles (Jul 1, 2015)

Andre, do not take anything as personal, it's just a job, and surely you can extract many positive things even from the harsh comments. In fact, Piet gave you (in a too rude manner) very valid arguments and once you'll get colder you could dive into his comments and extract something useful from it I believe (I did work for 13 years as pre-press graphic designer and I have to agree with Piet's core message).
Bare in mind, that you will -never- do anything to the taste of 100% people because the simple reason that everyone has their personal taste.
In my case, I don't care about the visual side but if anything more about functionality and wasted space. I like what people is calling cheesy the same than an ultra-minimalistic layout. I'm open to any sort of aesthetic because I deal professionally with all sort of aesthetic requests since almost 30 years, but some people can be more sensible (even extremely) to it as seen.

I do work at Weta Digital and I think it's quite safe to say that there are no bad artists in the company, however the work we do is constantly reviewed and asked for modifications sometimes brought it to ridiculous extreme (no kidding when saying that some assets have been redone more than 200 times).
Does it mean that our work is not good?, no, not at all. From version 01 to version XX all are of the same quality, but the asset has to become credible within a specific scenario first, secondly fit the personal taste of your department supervisor, 3rd fit the taste of the CG Supervisor, 4th fit the taste of the Senior Supervisor and 5th and most important fit the taste of the client.

That task here is especially complicated here because there is not a single client but an entire community judging the design that's replacing what we are accustomed to.

Just take it as part of the job. You did your proposal and now you realise that "the client" is after something different? Your next step is to leave your personal taste aside and professionally introduce a new option matching better the client notes, and another version after that and another if necessary. Nothing personal, it's just work, just a process necessary for a proper client-designer understanding.

I don't know if it's possible but I think the ideal would be offer let's say 3 "themes" or "skins" or whatever it's called, so people can have some options, for instance 1. minimalistic light background with dark text (typical), 2. minimalistic dark background with light text (don't use pure white for text but light grey, makes a huge difference on fatigue) and 3. a more loaded one with your current high contrast design (some people liked it). Like this anyone can choose what it fits better to their taste and problem solved.
What it really matter is the content and of course the people.

I find stupid losing members because of a non relevant aesthetic discussion (functionality though is a must I think).

And thanks for your hard work and patience with all of us.

Cheers,
Carles

P.S.
Piet, if you read this, while I usually agree with the subject of your opinions (as much as disagree your manners), I find your farewell childish and insulting your own (more than demonstrated) intelligence.
I think that's been unfortunate and you should seriously reconsider it.
Just an aesthetic issue is really justifying that you quit after 10 years in the forum? do you really think so?


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## Øivind (Jul 1, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Then let's figure out how to put it all together and make it happen. But I'll need you guys to write the score.


If by my life or death I can help you, I will. You have my brush...


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jul 1, 2015)

One quick fix might be to make the banners a bit more legible. 
At the moment, the busy background with similar tones to the text can make it difficult to read. I'm not a designer by any means, but perhaps something along these lines might be easier to read:


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## EvilDragon (Jul 1, 2015)

First one is way too loud. Second one is a lot better.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jul 1, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> First one is way too loud



The first one is the design currently on the forum, the second is my example.


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## creativeforge (Jul 1, 2015)

Carles said:


> Andre, do not take anything as personal, it's just a job, and surely you can extract many positive things even from the harsh comments. In fact, Piet gave you (in a too rude manner) very valid arguments and once you'll get colder you could dive into his comments and extract something useful from it I believe (I did work for 13 years as pre-press graphic designer and I have to agree with Piet's core message).
> Bare in mind, that you will -never- do anything to the taste of 100% people because the simple reason that everyone has their personal taste.
> In my case, I don't care about the visual side but if anything more about functionality and wasted space. I like what people is calling cheesy the same than an ultra-minimalistic layout. I'm open to any sort of aesthetic because I deal professionally with all sort of aesthetic requests since almost 30 years, but some people can be more sensible (even extremely) to it as seen.
> 
> ...



Good morning Carles,

Thank you! Everything you wrote, I agree with. It dawned on me last night, while writing back to Mike and Ryan, that most of you guys live this reality day and day out. This whole exercise is for me what I'd called being schooled. There is nothing I would have loved more than to be able to hire a team of professional designers, but cost would have been prohibitive. 

One other thing to consider is the coding language Xenforo uses. This is not straight HTML/CSS, some images are actually using Font Awesome, sprites, and one element could be controlled by a few files. But I assume professionals could decipher this pretty quickly... 

As I keep saying, I'm all for having you guys contribute something totally awesome. I spent a hours browsing Behance, dribble and winning sites on the webby awards website to get inspiration...

Thanks again for your post, Carles, I very much appreciate it and again, I welcome the help to bring cohesion where some seem to experience chaos. 

Regards,

Andre


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## EvilDragon (Jul 1, 2015)

wilx said:


> The first one is the design currently on the forum, the second is my example.



Ah, I blocked that frame so it doesn't show. Too loud  All I see now is this very simple gradient. Works just fine, and it's soothing!


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 1, 2015)

I made one, too. You don't have to thank me for it. And yes, I know it's perfect.


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## creativeforge (Jul 1, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> I made one, too. You don't have to thank me for it. And yes, I know it's perfect.



Keep at it sleepy! I do want to thank you, if that's OK! No need to be so humble...


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 1, 2015)




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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 1, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


>





EvilDragon said:


> First one is way too loud. Second one is a lot better.


The Logic Users group uses the same Xenforo but look how much nicer it is.

http://www.logic-users-group.com/forums/


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## jtnyc (Jul 1, 2015)

Loving the solid blue background! Makes all the difference.

I've bookmarked the new posts page. As of now, it doesn't update when I visit and I have to click on new posts in order to get it to. Any chance this can be addressed?

Thanks


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 1, 2015)

efiebke said:


> Nice job in creating this new version of your web-site. Congratulations!


It IS getting better IMHO.


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## semo (Jul 1, 2015)

Carles said:


> I don't know if it's possible but I think the ideal would be offer let's say 3 "themes" or "skins" or whatever it's called, so people can have some options, for instance 1. minimalistic light background with dark text (typical), 2. minimalistic dark background with light text (don't use pure white for text but light grey, makes a huge difference on fatigue) and 3. a more loaded one with your current high contrast design (some people liked it). Like this anyone can choose what it fits better to their taste and problem solved.



+1 making it easy for users to choose and setup is much better than to go thru endless configuration options.


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## Jetzer (Jul 1, 2015)

A new style always takes time to get used to, I will give it some, but I have some (small?) issues though.

The old one was full screen + super clean, easy on the eye...
Hate to say it, but having these bars on the side feels like 2005 to me.

It was easy to get a quick overview of new topics, who posted + the posts looked smaller. Piet's right with his 10 vs 22 pages comment. 

Also, I had to change my password to login.

It has improved though, since the first time I looked.


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## synergy543 (Jul 1, 2015)

Andre, the new solid blue alone makes is so much easier to read. Thanks for doing this. I could actually live with this myself however, I do like the idea of options if that is a possibility. A gradient version (Apple style) or a repeating pattern version (as in the left side bar) might be nice options. Its interesting to note that many who have stepped forward to share feedback have extensive experience in graphics and there's a strong consensus to the content of what they say (regardless of how it was said- these guys have strong opinions which in part is what also makes them great artists). Its great to see things moving in a positive direction. Two thumbs up and some extra karma points for you!


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## gregjazz (Jul 1, 2015)

I did a little CSS cleanup to make the forum design simpler. Here's the result (see attachment). There's obviously still things to fix, like some of the alignment is off.

I mostly just removed unnecessary elements, removed borders, no more rounded edges (oops I just noticed a few more to remove), etc. Since forums are obviously very text-based, minimizing the graphical content is essential.

Anyway, more than anything this is just an idea for a possible skin. Obviously it would be best to build the skin from ground up rather than tweaking an existing one, just to keep the code as clean and efficient as possible.


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## mducharme (Jul 1, 2015)

jtnyc said:


> Loving the solid blue background! Makes all the difference.
> 
> I've bookmarked the new posts page. As of now, it doesn't update when I visit and I have to click on new posts in order to get it to. Any chance this can be addressed?
> 
> Thanks


It has been addressed, see the other thread in this same forum for the fix (thread started by rgames)


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Jul 1, 2015)

gregjazz said:


> I did a little CSS cleanup to make the forum design simpler. Here's the result (see attachment). There's obviously still things to fix, like some of the alignment is off.



Very nice Greg - love the removal of whitespace between UI elements! Also, having no (or very subtle) rounded corners does wonders.

I did something along the same lines for the avatar boxes, trying to reduce their height. Could be a suggestion for an even simpler look. Also - and this is in the extreme end of the nitpicking spectrum: Notice the subtle drop shadow under the forum menu when it is pinned to the top


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## sin(x) (Jul 1, 2015)

Does anyone actually use the page up/down buttons on the right side? The overlay lands on top of the posts when the browser window is less than 1000-ish pixels wide :(


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## creativeforge (Jul 1, 2015)

gregjazz said:


> I did a little CSS cleanup to make the forum design simpler. Here's the result (see attachment). There's obviously still things to fix, like some of the alignment is off.
> 
> I mostly just removed unnecessary elements, removed borders, no more rounded edges (oops I just noticed a few more to remove), etc. Since forums are obviously very text-based, minimizing the graphical content is essential.
> 
> Anyway, more than anything this is just an idea for a possible skin. Obviously it would be best to build the skin from ground up rather than tweaking an existing one, just to keep the code as clean and efficient as possible.



Good job, Greg. I just removed the red buttons on title bars. 

As for building a skin from the ground up, although there is a lot of CSS, and some HTML, it's mostly PHP and Xenforo proprietary syntax. So just to reproduce the little 'avatar box" the way you have it, and for it to also be responsive, could take a couple hours, and modifying multiple files. Now imagine the rest. that's why most people will use the default skin and build from there. Which I did also. 







And here full-width like the old forum:


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## creativeforge (Jul 1, 2015)

sin(x) said:


> Does anyone actually use the page up/down buttons on the right side? The overlay lands on top of the posts when the browser window is less than 1000-ish pixels wide :(



Let me see about moving them out of the way...

Sorry about that...


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## playz123 (Jul 1, 2015)

I've been reading this thread on a regular basis over the last few days, but haven't commented since others have pretty much said what I would have. In any case, the most important thing for me is that everything works, and so far I've found I've been able to do everything here I wanted to do and most bugs have been fixed. It now appears the focus has shifted entirely to aesthetics and, again I like the direction in which we are headed. I simply felt uncomfortable with the original design...way too busy in my opinion, but also I was thrilled to have the forum back on line and functioning again.

I must admit I don't quite understand why someone would even suggest abandoning the forum because of the design, nor do I understand why insults were necessary. What is reassuring is the positive feedback that has been offered. And I'm sure many of us can agree that we have faith and confidence in Frederick and Andre, and I genuinely appreciate their willingness to consider changes. There is no way there will be a final design that will appeal to every single person, but hopefully we'll eventually arrive at something suitable to most. Will leave the discussions about the design of the site to others who know more about that sort of thing than I do, and just get on with enjoying the forum and appreciating what it offers. Thank you Frederick and Andre for your efforts on our behalf.


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## gregjazz (Jul 1, 2015)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> I did something along the same lines for the avatar boxes, trying to reduce their height. Could be a suggestion for an even simpler look. Also - and this is in the extreme end of the nitpicking spectrum: Notice the subtle drop shadow under the forum menu when it is pinned to the top


Ahh, that's really nice! I like how you got it more compact. Even if you were to add back some of the user details (join date, website, etc.), I think you could still get it working in that style.


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## creativeforge (Jul 1, 2015)

playz123 said:


> I've been reading this thread on a regular basis over the last few days, but haven't commented since others have pretty much said what I would have. In any case, the most important thing for me is that everything works, and so far I've found I've been able to do everything here I wanted to do and most bugs have been fixed. It now appears the focus has shifted entirely to aesthetics and, again I like the direction in which we are headed. I simply felt uncomfortable with the original design...way too busy in my opinion, but also I was thrilled to have the forum back on line and functioning again.
> I must admit I don't quite understand why someone would even suggest abandoning the forum because of the design, nor do I understand why insults were necessary. What is reassuring is the positive feedback that has been offered. And I'm sure many of us can agree that we have faith and confidence in Frederick and Andre, and I genuinely appreciate their willingness to consider changes. There is no way there will be a final design that will appeal to every single person, but hopefully we'll eventually arrive at something suitable to most. will leave the discussions about the design of the site to others who know more about that sort of thing than I do, and just get on with enjoying the forum and appreciating what it offers. Thank you Frederick and Andre for your efforts on our behalf.



Thank you Frank... Glad we're finding our way as a community and not from behind various barricades... 

The work continues, and if you have any ideas, requests, etc. please join in and speak your mind. So far there is only one post I could never read again. Not even to pick out the flesh from the bones. However, I have seen this kind of Hulk-iness before, and know is has very little to do with the topic in question, or with me. I only hope for the person that he is surrounded by enough love and support to move on and de-green, and never again have to make his way back from such nuclear extremes. It's an exhausting process, and I would know because I've been there often over the years. But we can learn new ways as change happens. I'm sure this is not who he is as a person. 

He also knows by now that I tried to reach out, and that others sharing some of his views have been able to articulate them in a way that moved things along. I hope he will find the results to his liking for the most. There will be more changes coming, but we had to open the forum again for business. I personally appreciate all the feedback and ideas so far, and mostly the tones and attitudes of people sharing their thoughts. 

Regards,

Andre


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## Jetzer (Jul 1, 2015)

^^ That full width version looks great. 

Not sure if that was just to show but it would actually be a lot nicer (imo).


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## gregjazz (Jul 1, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> As for building a skin from the ground up, although there is a lot of CSS, and some HTML, it's mostly PHP and Xenforo proprietary syntax. So just to reproduce the little 'avatar box" the way you have it, and for it to also be responsive, could take a couple hours, and modifying multiple files. Now imagine the rest. that's why most people will use the default skin and build from there. Which I did also.


Ah, I really like that full width version you posted. Though IMO even the current skin's maximum width works fine, since it's plenty wide (at least on my monitor).

Have you ever worked with Flexbox in CSS? All modern browsers support it (although it's still best to include the vendor prefixes). It makes alignment a breeze. Though, I'm assuming that at this point going back and rewriting lots of the styling is probably not an option, in favor of tweaks to the existing theme to improve its look and feel.


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## EvilDragon (Jul 1, 2015)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> I did something along the same lines for the avatar boxes, trying to reduce their height. Could be a suggestion for an even simpler look. Also - and this is in the extreme end of the nitpicking spectrum: Notice the subtle drop shadow under the forum menu when it is pinned to the top



Could you post your CSS for that please?


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 1, 2015)

FYI Andre and all, Piet has been banned so cannot reply here publicly or via PMs. Not sure if the ban is temporary.


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## sin(x) (Jul 1, 2015)

And theeeere we go again. -_-


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Jul 1, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> Could you post your CSS for that please?



Sure!

Here's the override css I'm using now: 

It's a quick hack, probably fragile and may not be responsive, but it looks nice in the one browser I use - you may pick and choose


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## creativeforge (Jul 1, 2015)

BEFORE:





AFTER:


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## creativeforge (Jul 1, 2015)

gregjazz said:


> Ah, I really like that full width version you posted. Though IMO even the current skin's maximum width works fine, since it's plenty wide (at least on my monitor).
> 
> Have you ever worked with Flexbox in CSS? All modern browsers support it (although it's still best to include the vendor prefixes). It makes alignment a breeze. Though, I'm assuming that at this point going back and rewriting lots of the styling is probably not an option, in favor of tweaks to the existing theme to improve its look and feel.



There are a few new "technologies" that have been gaining ground lately, but it's not something I understand fully. Bootstrap and Flex are part of this. My ADHD brain has a hard time envisioning the thread tree of all these and how they translate in real life.

Styling Xenforo is so different than - WordPress, per say. And as powerful as it is as a forum software, it's still not uber-newbie-friendly. Those who are "experts" that I found, are charging $100 an hour to work on custom fixes, etc. and setting up your site. It can get ugly pretty fast. Although when you purchase their theme (like I did with this one) most of them are really helpful. But there is a limit to the time they can spend on support, and there too the margin can be pretty steep. 

I think we're doing good so far, though, implementing some of the ideas. 

Regards,

Andre


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## creativeforge (Jul 1, 2015)

Guy Rowland said:


> FYI Andre and all, Piet has been banned so cannot reply here publicly or via PMs. Not sure if the ban is temporary.



Piet can always reach if he wants to talk, my door is opened. [email protected]


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## mverta (Jul 1, 2015)

Andre, you can increase readability of text over banners by introducing a gradient blur behind the text. Even subtle blur will create z-depth and help the text pop.


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## creativeforge (Jul 1, 2015)

mverta said:


> Andre, you can increase readability of text over banners by introducing a gradient blur behind the text. Even subtle blur will create z-depth and help the text pop.



Hi Mike, are you referring to the new images I posted? Every banner is blueish now.


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## mverta (Jul 1, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> Hi Mike, are you referring to the new images I posted? Every banner is blueish now.



Yes, but the text still fights. One solve is this, a slight blur, brought in by a gradient behind the text areas only:


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## mducharme (Jul 1, 2015)

Can't you also use a subtle drop shadow on the text for the same purpose, without blurring the background?


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## Øivind (Jul 2, 2015)

Perhaps, start with no images and progress to images after the core/basic design is in place. Makes it easier to see the fundamentals rather than getting distracted by the cool imagery


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## Jaap (Jul 2, 2015)

I have been away for a while and missed the whole transition and just like with everything new it takes time for me to get used to.
So far though I am not unhappy. I have not read everything here, but I can recognise some of the sentiments though I think they are sometimes a bit strong, but that is of course personal for everyone.

My first impression was that there is a lot going on and my personal prefference is to have a sort of simplicity in a forum. I use it (just like most of us I guess) in between work and I hate to be distracted by to much. I quickly want to browse through some posts and/or find quickly some work related stuff. 
However when returning this morning to this forum I noticed already I was already more used to it, so I guess it just takes a bit of time from my side to get adjusted and I can see now also some nice potential here!

It is really nice to see how the feedback is taken and how it is shaped till something most of us can rely on 

A big congratulations though on all the amazing hard work. I am a big noob when it comes to website design and I can only imagine it must have been quite a road to get here and I am more then sure that it will become something very nice! (just for the record, it's nice already, just takes time for me to adjust haha).

Just my 2 cents and thanks for all the hard work Andre!


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## Hannes_F (Jul 2, 2015)

JH said:


> ^^ That full width version looks great.
> 
> Not sure if that was just to show but it would actually be a lot nicer (imo).



+1 for a full width version.


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## Daniel James (Jul 2, 2015)

Hannes_F said:


> +1 for a full width version.



+1 Full width version please.

-DJ


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## mverta (Jul 2, 2015)

mducharme said:


> Can't you also use a subtle drop shadow on the text for the same purpose, without blurring the background?



It's a different look - lots of times the drop shadow creates an "off the page" look which isn't desirable, whereas a subtle blur basically goes unnoticed while still drawing attention to the text. We use it in title work and motion graphics all the time.


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## Alatar (Jul 2, 2015)

jtnyc said:


> Loving the solid blue background! Makes all the difference.
> 
> I've bookmarked the new posts page. As of now, it doesn't update when I visit and I have to click on new posts in order to get it to. Any chance this can be addressed?
> 
> Thanks



Agree! Thanks for the solid blue background.


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## EvilDragon (Jul 29, 2015)

EvilDragon said:


> Also, I'd like it if collapsing/expanding the subforums were much faster... it's way too slow now. I also noticed that the collapsed state doesn't get remembered consistently. I'd be visiting the forum in some hours and they're all back to expanded. Cookie that!



Here's a bump to Andre. This is all very annoying to me, still. Especially the collapsed state not being remembered indefinitely (it resets itself every day)!


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## creativeforge (Jul 29, 2015)

Right, let me check on this and I'll post here when I find an answer. It could be a limitation of the software, but I doubt it.

Regards,

Andre


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## creativeforge (Jul 29, 2015)

OK, I fixed the speed! Now for the rest I am waiting on the theme's developer. It's a bit more complicated I think. 

Also, have you checked the mobile view? 

Regards,

Andre


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## EvilDragon (Jul 29, 2015)

Didn't check the mobile view, I don't browse VI-C via phone (or hardly anything for that matter)


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## paoling (Aug 4, 2015)

Let me say Andrè, that the whole forum experience has improved a lot. The absence of the logo graveyard at the end keeps the whole page scrolling a lot smoother. The reduced size of the avatars make it usable on mobile (although the avatars could be shrinked more on mobile I think). The bi-color (blue-red) theme is cool and clear. There aren't many nested boxes anymore, nothing jumps when looking or writing.

What is left is the new awesome functionality of the new forum, which renders the whole experience a lot more pleasant. Now the forum is indexed so we can make searches with Google.
There are little design things which could be fixed in the future like the "Contact US / HELP / HOME" bar below that seems floating over the page. I think you are basically trying to fix an ugly theme that was full of useless crap.
Great.


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## creativeforge (Aug 4, 2015)

Thanks paoling! Kind of you to say, I try to tweak as much as possible with "less is more" glasses on. I'm learning... 

Could you post a screenshot of what you see for the "Contact US / HELP / HOME" bar? I'll look into it.

Regards,

Andre


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## creativeforge (Aug 4, 2015)

paoling said:


> Let me say Andrè, that the whole forum experience has improved a lot. The absence of the logo graveyard at the end keeps the whole page scrolling a lot smoother. The reduced size of the avatars make it usable on mobile (although the avatars could be shrinked more on mobile I think). The bi-color (blue-red) theme is cool and clear. There aren't many nested boxes anymore, nothing jumps when looking or writing.
> 
> What is left is the new awesome functionality of the new forum, which renders the whole experience a lot more pleasant. Now the forum is indexed so we can make searches with Google.
> There are little design things which could be fixed in the future like the "Contact US / HELP / HOME" bar below that seems floating over the page. I think you are basically trying to fix an ugly theme that was full of useless crap.
> Great.



I have disable the 15 millions popups/tooltips/previews, so that too should help!


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## Alan Wave (Aug 5, 2015)

I've been away for a few months and now all i see are improvements, i have nothing to complain about. However, i barely use my phone for online browsing , so i don't know about that.
What i like more about VI is its people, they are willing to help each other, many of them are pros and have good knowledge about what they do, in result to maintain a healthy and active forum experience.


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## Hannes_F (Aug 5, 2015)

Guy Rowland said:


> FYI Andre and all, Piet has been banned so cannot reply here publicly or via PMs. Not sure if the ban is temporary.



Guy, are you absolutely sure about this? I don't see a ban or timeout in the user profile. I think his absence from writing is voluntary, as announced in this post
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/some-questions-and-congratulations.46290/page-8#post-3878832

But I'll ask whether anybody banned him. I might be wrong.

EDIT1: I see this was a comment from more than a month ago, have been away from this thread for too long. I would like to have that set straight nevertheless.

EDIT2: Result: Nobody banned him, the absence was and is voluntary.


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## tokatila (Aug 5, 2015)

My main gripes are also related to the graphic design and visual choices. However the search function was almost unusable in the last forum, linking stuff was a pain in the arse and functionality with mobile devices nonexistent. Also automatic draft saving is a huge plus. 

So altogether a huge improvement in functionality, but I must admit it's a step backwards even when compared to old forum in visual choices. I would prefer much more neutral look.

And I actually like the new "Like" button, because it's much easier to thank someone and I believe it will help keep threads more readable.


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## Hannes_F (Aug 5, 2015)

tokatila said:


> And I actually like the new "Like" button, because it's much easier to thank someone and I believe it will help keep threads more readable.



+1



Wait, this ... was ... eh


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## paoling (Aug 5, 2015)

creativeforge said:


> I have disable the 15 millions popups/tooltips/previews, so that too should help!



Yes, just to be picky with the design, eventually you can remove that ugly blue space and the void black space under the thread 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m4wg799qjgy0gh2/Vi-Control-Screen.png?dl=0

to this 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tbnp4vi0imge4z9/Removed.png?dl=0


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 5, 2015)

Hannes_F said:


> EDIT2: Result: Nobody banned him, the absence was and is voluntary.



Incorrect. I understand the ban has now finished its term though, so if Piet isn't posting now, that would indeed be voluntary.


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## Jetzer (Aug 6, 2015)

Few pages back there was some talk about a full width version, I don't know if that is/was considered as a future update? I like the site now and got used to it etc, but I still liked the full width of the old forum. 

Also, is there any update on the conversations? I still can't see any replies.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Aug 6, 2015)

I really hope the current breadcrumb design will get fixed soon. Yes, the black version used before was a little clunky, but this is just completely misaligned and with weird proportions for the arrows. Also - why are the arrows highlighting on mouse-over but not the link text?


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## creativeforge (Aug 7, 2015)

paoling said:


> Yes, just to be picky with the design, eventually you can remove that ugly blue space and the void black space under the thread
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m4wg799qjgy0gh2/Vi-Control-Screen.png?dl=0
> to this
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tbnp4vi0imge4z9/Removed.png?dl=0



Yes, and it's done now, let me know how it works for you?

Regards,

Andre


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## creativeforge (Aug 7, 2015)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> I really hope the current breadcrumb design will get fixed soon. Yes, the black version used before was a little clunky, but this is just completely misaligned and with weird proportions for the arrows. Also - why are the arrows highlighting on mouse-over but not the link text?



Hi Rasmus, I was trying to reduce the amount of black bars on the screen. Can you tell me how you experienced the "clunkiness", and when you say "misaligned?"

I also took off the bottom breadcrumb (again, for a lighter feel), let me know if you miss it.

BTW, I'm working on getting a streamlined skin, almost vanilla out of the box, that will also be full width. Hopefully that will help the flow of things. But at some point we'll have to stick with something...


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## creativeforge (Aug 7, 2015)

JH said:


> Few pages back there was some talk about a full width version, I don't know if that is/was considered as a future update? I like the site now and got used to it etc, but I still liked the full width of the old forum.



Hi HJ, yes, I'm still looking into this, it's something that is necessary. 


Really? Hold on, can you try now? Let me know how it works (or not). Sorry for the troubles...

Regards,

Andre


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## Jetzer (Aug 7, 2015)

Nope, still no replies (I tried on a pc and a mac, different browsers, and tried logging out/in. Still no luck. I will sent you a test message, let's see if that works.

Btw, thanks for all the good work and support!


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