# 2022 Mac Pro



## David Kudell (Nov 13, 2021)

After watching this, I’m incredibly excited for the Apple silicon Mac Pro. Not only does it looks to be the fastest computer by a wide margin, it’s also going to be cheaper, quieter, and cooler. 256GB unified RAM, yes please.


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## dylanmixer (Nov 13, 2021)

Sigh. Blessings to those rich enough to buy one of these tanks. I'll be sticking with my custom PC for a while.


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## easyrider (Nov 13, 2021)

Will the wheels still be any cheaper than £700?


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## samphony (Nov 13, 2021)

All joking aside I like where Apple is heading.


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## clisma (Nov 13, 2021)

As he says himself, it's all speculation but his arguments seem to rest on solid ground from the rumors we know. I think ultimately, the power supply will provide more than he anticipates, as it has to allow for extra internal and external components but his point about the shrinking size of the chassis checks out.

If things come to pass in this way, or even near it, this seems like a really big deal.


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## gsilbers (Nov 13, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> After watching this, I’m incredibly excited for the Apple silicon Mac Pro. Not only does it looks to be the fastest computer by a wide margin, it’s also going to be cheaper, quieter, and cooler. 256GB unified RAM, yes please.




At 7k for the top mac pro he mentioned its a very good deal. Even windows pc couldn't get that performance level at that price. all theory obviously. And who knows, maybe AMD comes out with a SOC that blows away apple silicon for much lower price. Seems we win anyways. Except those on mac intel of course.


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## KEM (Nov 13, 2021)

Are we really expecting a new Mac Pro that soon? I mean it took almost a decade from the trash can to the current one, so I’m not expecting a new Mac Pro for at least 4-5 years if I had to guess. I’ll be getting a Mac Mini once they refresh it next


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## Pier (Nov 13, 2021)

It all follows the plan outlined in this diagram and shared by John Siracusa when the M1 was released.


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## Zedcars (Nov 13, 2021)

KEM said:


> Are we really expecting a new Mac Pro that soon? I mean it took almost a decade from the trash can to the current one, so I’m not expecting a new Mac Pro for at least 4-5 years if I had to guess. I’ll be getting a Mac Mini once they refresh it next


The landscape is very different now they are no longer reliant on Intel. They also want to show off what they can achieve and leap-frog Intel. It’s not just about raw performance, it’s also about showing they can walk the walk. They want to build confidence in their prosumer base that they can deliver something powerful enough that customers will stick with the Mac.

That big gap in updating the MP was pretty bad, but I think that’s old news now.


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## KEM (Nov 13, 2021)

Pier said:


> It all follows the plan outlined in this diagram and shared by John Siracusa when the M1 was released.



So basically it’s gonna be insane…


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## KEM (Nov 13, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> The landscape is very different now they are no longer reliant on Intel. They also want to show off what they can achieve and leap-frog Intel. It’s not just about raw performance, it’s also about showing they can walk the walk. They want to build confidence in their prosumer base that they can deliver something powerful enough that customers will stick with the Mac.
> 
> That big gap in updating the MP was pretty bad, but I think that’s old news now.



Let’s hope!! I’d love to see an Apple Silicon Mac Pro


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## Pier (Nov 13, 2021)

KEM said:


> Are we really expecting a new Mac Pro that soon? I mean it took almost a decade from the trash can to the current one, so I’m not expecting a new Mac Pro for at least 4-5 years if I had to guess. I’ll be getting a Mac Mini once they refresh it next


Yeah the next Mac Pro and big iMacs are most likely coming in 2022.

The trash can was released in 2013 and lasted 6 years, so closer to half a decade 

There are many reasons for this though. Initially Apple thought they could expand on the cylindrical design but they got themselves into a thermal corner. Moore's law stalled so the only way to add more performance ended up adding more cores, which the trash can couldn't cool. Maybe that design would work with current AMD chips which are more efficient, but those didn't exist at the time.

And then, my theory is that Apple started working on the M1 chips and probably wanted to wait and just release an ARM Mac Pro. People got angry so Apple threw them a bone in the form of an iMac Pro which really wasn't enough for the Mac Pro tower segment. Who knows what happened then, maybe the development of the M1 took longer than Apple expected and they finally decided to release the 2019 Mac Pro to calm all the pros with pitchforks. This gave Apple a couple more years until the M1 Mac Pro.


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## Pier (Nov 13, 2021)

KEM said:


> So basically it’s gonna be insane…


Yeah basically LOL


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## KEM (Nov 13, 2021)

Pier said:


> Yeah the next Mac Pro and big iMacs are most likely coming in 2022.
> 
> The trash can was released in 2013 and lasted 6 years, so closer to half a decade
> 
> ...





Pier said:


> Yeah basically LOL



Alright I’m gonna send all this info to my dad and see if he’s down to go in on a Mac Pro with me once they come out lol


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## Vik (Nov 13, 2021)

The big question is, IMO, if they will (also) make a Mac Pro Mini in 2022. The number of audio/video users who need a smaller version of the Mac Pro is, for several reasons, much bigger than the number of people who need something with four times (or more) as much power as a M1 Max – with a size similar to the large Mac Pros (from 2010/2019).


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## Pier (Nov 13, 2021)

Vik said:


> The big question is, IMO, if they will (also) make a Mac Pro Mini in 2022. The number of audio/video users who need a smaller version of the Mac Pro is, for several reasons, much bigger than the number of people who need something with four times (or more) as much power as a M1 Max – with a size similar to the large Mac Pros (from 2010/2019).


I'd be very surprised if Apple didn't release a Mac Mini with the M1 Pro/Max chips.


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## rnb_2 (Nov 13, 2021)

Pier said:


> It all follows the plan outlined in this diagram and shared by John Siracusa when the M1 was released.


I imagine that Apple would really like to know who Gurman's sources are, since he nailed the M1 Pro/Max, so there's every reason to believe that he's going to be right about the Mac Pro SOCs, as well.


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## KEM (Nov 13, 2021)

Pier said:


> I'd be very surprised if Apple didn't release a Mac Mini with the M1 Pro/Max chips.



M1 Max Mac Mini is my dream right now, 4tb hard drive and 64gb of RAM, I’d be set!!


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## mscp (Nov 13, 2021)

Me too. I like where Apple is heading, but don't count on it being cheaper. That's just silly. lol.


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## Vik (Nov 13, 2021)

Pier said:


> I'd be very surprised if Apple didn't release a Mac Mini with the M1 Pro/Max chips.


Sure, but will they release a Mac Pro Mini – a model between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro?


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## David Kudell (Nov 13, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> At 7k for the top mac pro he mentioned its a very good deal. Even windows pc couldn't get that performance level at that price. all theory obviously. And who knows, maybe AMD comes out with a SOC that blows away apple silicon for much lower price. Seems we win anyways. Except those on mac intel of course.


I think there are two levels of impressiveness. The all around performance I think will be on par price-wise with the PC side, although the Windows PC will need to run many times hotter, louder, and power hungry to keep up. But for video stuff like video editing, the Mac is going to be many, times faster due to the dedicated video chips in the Apple silicon. Already the new laptops are competing with the 28-core Intel Mac Pro in video rendering, even ones with the Afterburner card add-on no less!


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## KEM (Nov 13, 2021)

mscp said:


> Me too. I like where Apple is heading, but don't count on it being cheaper. That's just silly. lol.



I actually think it will be since they don’t have to outsource to Intel, if they’re using all proprietary stuff it should be cheaper in theory, but then again Apple can change whatever they want and people will still buy it so who knows…


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## gsilbers (Nov 13, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> I think there are two levels of impressiveness. The all around performance I think will be on par price-wise with the PC side, although the Windows PC will need to run many times hotter, louder, and power hungry to keep up. But for video stuff like video editing, the Mac is going to be many, times faster due to the dedicated video chips in the Apple silicon. Already the new laptops are competing with the 28-core Intel Mac Pro in video rendering, even ones with the Afterburner card add-on no less!


yes. kinda sucks its all video editing-centric and we coudlnt choose less gpu but more ram and cpu. At the same time, we could see a resurgence of pice audio cards!


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## Pier (Nov 13, 2021)

Vik said:


> Sure, but will they release a Mac Pro Mini – a model between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro?


So a Mac Mini with pro specs? Or what would the difference be with the regular Mini?


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## David Kudell (Nov 13, 2021)

Pier said:


> So a Mac Mini with pro specs? Or what would the difference be with the regular Mini?


Personally, I see the Apple Silicon Mac mini to have the same chips as the Macbook Pros, just without the monitor. So M1 Pro and M1 Max (10 cores). I think if you want the 20 core or 40 cores it would be the Mac Pro.

Of course, there's the rumored 2022 iMac Pro, and that I could see having maybe 20cores (but I think they'll save the 40 for the Mac Pro). That's all just guesses of course.


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## KEM (Nov 13, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> Personally, I see the Apple Silicon Mac mini to have the same chips as the Macbook Pros, just without the monitor. So M1 Pro and M1 Max (10 cores). I think if you want the 20 core or 40 cores it would be the Mac Pro.
> 
> Of course, there's the rumored 2022 iMac Pro, and that I could see having maybe 20cores (but I think they'll save the 40 for the Mac Pro). That's all just guesses of course.



I’m expecting the Mac Mini refresh to have the current M1 Pro/Max chips as well and that’s totally fine for me, that could more than handle anything I could throw at it


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## David Kudell (Nov 13, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> yes. kinda sucks its all video editing-centric and we coudlnt choose less gpu but more ram and cpu. At the same time, we could see a resurgence of pice audio cards!


That was kinda my thought yeah, although seeing that video, he says even the M1Max only costs Apple $200 to make...if that's true, the price is so much less than what Intel & AMD charge for their chips that it's almost like you're getting the GPU stuff for free.

The thing I'm really curious about is whether they'll have the supplementary RAM slots that he kind of mentions in the video. It's such a small group of people that even need more than 256GB of RAM, but being able to drop a couple more sticks of RAM to get it to 512 would be pretty awesome.


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## mscp (Nov 13, 2021)

KEM said:


> I actually think it will be since they don’t have to outsource to Intel, if they’re using all proprietary stuff it should be cheaper in theory, but then again Apple can change whatever they want and people will still buy it so who knows…



Apple is a publicly owned company. They won't.


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## KEM (Nov 13, 2021)

mscp said:


> Apple is a publicly owned company. They won't.



Aren’t the Silicon based Mac Mini’s cheaper than the Intel variants?


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 13, 2021)

My guess would be that the existing M1 MacBook Pro (non pro/max) will be phased out and the lineup will look akin to..

*M1 line*
MacBook Air
Base Mac Mini
iMac 24 inch

*M1 Pro/Max Line*
MacBook Pro
Mac Mini Pro
iMac Pro (Not a replacement for the recently discontinued “iMac Pro” but a rebrand of the existing “consumer” 27 inch.)

*M1 Insane Line*
Mac Pro

Of course, just guesswork. 

I find it interesting that few people are still hand wringing over having a SoC, even for the pro models. The raw power of the M1 pro/max seems to have turned a few heads.


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## rnb_2 (Nov 13, 2021)

KEM said:


> Aren’t the Silicon based Mac Mini’s cheaper than the Intel variants?


I think the base machine was $100 cheaper than the i3/8GB/256GB config that it replaced.


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## emilio_n (Nov 13, 2021)

I think the next Mac Pro will be very expensive but not like the current one. I will go to the iMac Pro or what else because I can't wait one year more until the Mac Pro will release. iMac Pro will serve me well for the next few years and then I can jump to the Mac Pro in a future iteration.


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## KEM (Nov 13, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> I think the base machine was $100 cheaper than the i3/8GB/256GB config that it replaced.



While not substantial I still think that’s a good sign, hope that continues


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## darkogav (Nov 14, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> Personally, I see the Apple Silicon Mac mini to have the same chips as the Macbook Pros, just without the monitor. So M1 Pro and M1 Max (10 cores). I think if you want the 20 core or 40 cores it would be the Mac Pro.
> 
> Of course, there's the rumored 2022 iMac Pro, and that I could see having maybe 20cores (but I think they'll save the 40 for the Mac Pro). That's all just guesses of course.


Do you need the high core count to make highly orchestral music with very low latency in DAW?


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## seclusion3 (Nov 14, 2021)

A trash can M1 Max Pro, up to 128 unified, with up to 8TB x's 2, 6 usb 4, 2 hdmi, 4 usb A would rock. Start at $5k


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## easyrider (Nov 14, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> That was kinda my thought yeah, although seeing that video, he says even the M1Max only costs Apple $200 to make...if that's true, the price is so much less than what Intel & AMD charge for their chips that it's almost like you're getting the GPU stuff for free.


GPU stuff for free?


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## David Kudell (Nov 14, 2021)

darkogav said:


> Do you need the high core count to make highly orchestral music with very low latency in DAW?


The regular MacBook Pro chips like the M1 Pro should be plenty to handle it. It’s not about latency. The main limitation for me is RAM, for me I need at least 128GB as I’ll frequently go over 64. (now I use VEPro, but that’s a whole other topic).


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## MarcusD (Nov 14, 2021)

If they release MacMini Pro I can't see it being more than 64gb RAM. They'd want to shepard people towards the desktop with 128GB+. However, if they did sneak 128GB into a mini... 🤤


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## darkogav (Nov 14, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> The regular MacBook Pro chips like the M1 Pro should be plenty to handle it. It’s not about latency. The main limitation for me is RAM, for me I need at least 128GB as I’ll frequently go over 64. (now I use VEPro, but that’s a whole other topic).


thanks. thats sort of what i thought the case was. i just wasn't sure as its not really my area of focus. core count should only help of you are doing computing heavy calculations, but libraries just load into RAM.. so they dont really care.


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## gsilbers (Nov 14, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> That was kinda my thought yeah, although seeing that video, he says even the M1Max only costs Apple $200 to make...if that's true, the price is so much less than what Intel & AMD charge for their chips that it's almost like you're getting the GPU stuff for free.
> 
> The thing I'm really curious about is whether they'll have the supplementary RAM slots that he kind of mentions in the video. It's such a small group of people that even need more than 256GB of RAM, but being able to drop a couple more sticks of RAM to get it to 512 would be pretty awesome.



Apples push seems to be very into the video world. I think animation does need plenty of ram but who knows if the new way ram is being used maybe that much is not needed. Hopefully and if possible, add ram thorugh pcie cards maybe? 

From what I noticed on the m1 release it was that the same chip was used on different models. I’m guessing the new Mac mini will have about the same spec than the new MacBooks minus the screen.
And the new iMacs might be the same as the Mac Pro Minus expansions.

And maybe Apple will work w expansions via pcie since they did that after burner card.?

From other dark sources of predictions, it might just stay up to 128gb of ram.


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## gsilbers (Nov 14, 2021)

There might be an oportunity for a small enterpenuer here to sell small, Mac mini like, PC sample farms that go up to 128gb of ram. And sell them to VI-cnotrol folks who need more ram. these macbooks are crazy fast, but its the ram that now becomes a limitation and even a huge expense with apple having all the non expandable control.


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## rnb_2 (Nov 14, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> Apples push seems to be very into the video world. I think animation does need plenty of ram but who knows if the new way ram is being used maybe that much is not needed. Hopefully and if possible, add ram thorugh pcie cards maybe?
> 
> From what I noticed on the m1 release it was that the same chip was used on different models. I’m guessing the new Mac mini will have about the same spec than the new MacBooks minus the screen.
> And the new iMacs might be the same as the Mac Pro Minus expansions.
> ...


This graphic isn't even correct about the things that have already come out - Jade C-Chop is M1 Pro, Jade C-Die is M1 Max but only has 10 CPU cores, not 20 (the "chop" only removed 16 GPU cores plus ancillary functions - the "chop" didn't involve CPU cores). I haven't seen any predictions that Jade 2C-Die and Jade 4C-Die will be M2-based, but I'd be happy to be wrong on this.

The A15-derived M2 should debut in the first half of 2022 in the new, redesigned (and very colorful) MacBook Air, and possibly a new low-end Mac mini at some point. The fate of the 13" MacBook Pro remains to be seen - if it continues, I'd be shocked if there isn't a redesign to remove the Touch Bar to reduce cost, and possibly the return of the MacBook name.

I would be surprised if the big iMac has anything more than M1 Pro/Max, as that will keep the thermal envelope small enough to let them go very thin with the enclosure, with all of the "computer" in the chin, like the 24". I would expect the "Pro" version of the Mac mini to also be M1 Pro/Max in a new enclosure, though there is also a possibility that the rumored "Mini Mac Pro" replaces that slot in the lineup.

If they can bring the base price of a Mac Pro down sufficiently and introduce the rumored "5k, Not $5k" display, that will eliminate the need for a very high-end iMac with greater cooling needs. The iMac Pro only existed because they had decided not to replace the Trash Can, but the "Apple has abandoned the Pro market" drumbeat got too loud, and they had to come up with something to quiet things down. It worked as a statement of intent, but there was still a segment of Pro users who needed expandability, so the 2019 Mac Pro was designed (and priced) for them.

I'm expecting that everything in 2022 beyond the new MacBook Air will be M1-based, with M2 Pro/Max introduced in early 2023 in the first update to the just-introduced MacBook Pros. They may eventually get onto a 1-year cadence with the Mac updates, but may also stick to something closer to 18 months (as they've usually done with iPad Pro) and occasionally skip a generation of base chips, so that M2 is A15-based, but M3 skips past A16 to A17.


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## easyrider (Nov 14, 2021)

If anyone thinks that the new Macs will be cheaper they are on crack….😂


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## clisma (Nov 14, 2021)

easyrider said:


> If anyone thinks that the new Macs will be cheaper they are on crack….😂


I don’t see how that is possible considering we’ve already spent ALL our money on a Mac!


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## rnb_2 (Nov 14, 2021)

easyrider said:


> If anyone thinks that the new Macs will be cheaper they are on crack….😂


Maybe in aggregate, but a cheaper Mac Pro + Expensive Apple Display probably works out better for them than an expensive iMac. Also, one of the things about Apple is that it's not just the revenue, but also the margin that everybody watches. The current Mac Pro is almost certainly more expensive than it needs to be, based only on the bill of materials - Apple needed it to be more expensive than the iMac Pro largely for optics (also, the market would bear it), and $1k was a nice, round number, so that's what they went with. I don't think that commits them to starting Mac Pro prices at $6k forever.


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## charlieclouser (Nov 14, 2021)

Pffft. None of these speculative Macs excite me. 

I'll wait for the m1promaxpro iMac Mini Pro ProMini Pro - like a Mac Mini but bigger, but also smaller than a Mac Pro, with the pro chip but also less expensive, with more RAM but also less, with more graphics cores but also fewer, and with bigger storage that's also smaller...

... and cheaper too.

Until Apple wises up and starts addressing the needs of the pro composers that make up 0.002% of their customer base instead of the "content creators" that make up 99.998% of their base (and make this exact configuration for $300) I'm going to spend the next six months on PcPartPicker configuring my dream PC and waiting for all the parts to be in stock at the same time on NewEgg.

So there.


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## David Kudell (Nov 15, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> Pffft. None of these speculative Macs excite me.
> 
> I'll wait for the m1promaxpro iMac Mini Pro ProMini Pro - like a Mac Mini but bigger, but also smaller than a Mac Pro, with the pro chip but also less expensive, with more RAM but also less, with more graphics cores but also fewer, and with bigger storage that's also smaller...
> 
> ...


Don’t forget about the dedicated 80 core EXS engine that’s definitely coming to the M1EXS Pro Max chip!


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 15, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> Don’t forget about the dedicated 80 core EXS engine that’s definitely coming to the M1EXS Pro Max chip!


Ker-ching! Sold.


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## gordinho (Nov 15, 2021)

The m1/apple silicon platform doesn't seem ideal to me for high memory usage outside out the video producing or gpu driven applications. 

The paradigm is shared memory for GPU purposes which translates into a coupling of gpu power and global memory. This is perfect for video producers and heavy gpu driven workloads but completely overkill for use cases for music composers loading up gigabytes of samples into memory. 

The M1 platform will align itself with composer's workload when you let go of the paradigm to load up entire instruments into memory.


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## mscp (Nov 15, 2021)

KEM said:


> Aren’t the Silicon based Mac Mini’s cheaper than the Intel variants?


They've changed the price. It used to be 899 just like the current M1.


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## rnb_2 (Nov 15, 2021)

mscp said:


> They've changed the price. It used to be 899 just like the current M1.


The base i3/8GB/256GB config was $799 before the M1 introduction, and that M1 config is $699. The original base i3/8GB/128GB was $799 at release in 2018, but there was a price reduction in July 2019 that reduced SSD prices across the board and made 256GB the base config.


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## Eloy (Nov 15, 2021)




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## Ukena (Nov 15, 2021)

Those benchmark results are insane.

My maxed-out mid-2012 MacBook Pro retina is finally gasping for air – the battery no longer retains a charge for more than a few minutes, so I have a 16" MBP M1 Max (like the one in the above vid) on order. It's roughly the same size as my 15" (.05" less high, .12" less wide, .04" deeper, and 1/4 lb. heavier), so it won't seem like a big change physically. But it will do everything so much faster...


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## mscp (Nov 15, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> Pffft. None of these speculative Macs excite me.
> 
> I'll wait for the m1promaxpro iMac Mini Pro ProMini Pro - like a Mac Mini but bigger, but also smaller than a Mac Pro, with the pro chip but also less expensive, with more RAM but also less, with more graphics cores but also fewer, and with bigger storage that's also smaller...
> 
> ...


Dream PC. Super cheap too. But damn global parts shortage. Now I can't compose...f...
I'm going to get this because everything I own is from HP. I want everything to be ready for me to use (out of the box xp), so I can use all my gear seamlessly...I don't want to wait more than 30 minutes to set it up - a month after I receive it. I like simplicity. If I have an issue, I can just call HP.


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## easyrider (Nov 15, 2021)

mscp said:


> Dream PC. Super cheap too. But damn global parts shortage. Now I can't compose...f...
> I'm going to get this because everything I own is from HP. I want everything to be ready, out of the box, so I can use them all seamlessly...I don't want to wait more than 30 minutes to set it up a month after I receive it. I like simplicity.


What’s the spec?


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## mscp (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> What’s the spec?


Bania: "The best Jerry, the best!"

And it's plug and play! No messing around with anything. Press the PWR button, and bang. It's there. I can't be arsed with setting a PC up. Whenever a new OS comes out, I just toss mine in the bin, and buy another one. 

Also, PC's are a piece of .... seriously! I don't have time for BS. I only have time to write long VI-C threads from time to time, and to work. You know? Our crazy hours don't allow us to do anything else but! Building a PC is a waste of my time.


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## charlieclouser (Nov 15, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> Don’t forget about the dedicated 80 core EXS engine that’s definitely coming to the M1EXS Pro Max chip!


*frantically smashing the "add to cart" button*


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## dgburns (Nov 15, 2021)

Eloy said:


>



You will pry my 2020 rackmount mac pro from my cold dead hands. Or when it made its return on investment, whichever comes first. Shit, I’ll have to ask the accountant, but I don’t see a M1 in my near future just yet. I give myself at least 5 years on both counts.


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## jcrosby (Nov 15, 2021)

clisma said:


> I don’t see how that is possible considering we’ve already spent ALL our money on a Mac!


Well played!


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## kitekrazy (Nov 16, 2021)

easyrider said:


> If anyone thinks that the new Macs will be cheaper they are on crack….😂


at least one will think crack is more affordable


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## CShorte (Nov 23, 2021)

Pier said:


> Yeah the next Mac Pro and big iMacs are most likely coming in 2022.
> 
> The trash can was released in 2013 and lasted 6 years, so closer to half a decade
> 
> ...


Does the trash can have problems cooling the 12 core 2.7 GHz chip?


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## Pier (Nov 23, 2021)

CShorte said:


> Does the trash can have problems cooling the 12 core 2.7 GHz chip?


I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if it throttled when also using GPU.

My previous comment was on updating the 2013 Mac Pro though, which Apple never did due to not being able to cool more powerful CPUs and GPUs of the time.


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