# Is there a kind of musical 'checklist' anywhere?



## Kiwifruit (Nov 2, 2018)

I'm looking for a type of musical checklist.

For example if I was a beginner learning guitar, I would learn:

Intervals
Chords
Power Chords
Major and Minor Chords (1, 3, 5) (1, b3, 5)
Pentatonics
Major and Minor Scale
Arpeggios
CAGED

etc till diatonic harmony was done, then I would do non diatonic stuff.

Is there something more 'helicopter view' than this for a composer/musician in general?

I've got basic skills in a DAW, some understanding of sound design, some piano, a good amount of guitar, understanding of diatonic harmony but like... There must be a roadmap out there right? I understand most people go to music school for that kind of thing.

My knowledge feels choppy and all over the place like I'm missing a bunch of stuff but without having it all laid out, I don't know how to go about learning it all the most efficient way.

Any direction or '1 stop shop' would be super useful.

Thx in advance for any resources to learn from.


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## jhughes (Nov 2, 2018)

This is why I advocate hiring a teacher or at least some feedback mechanism.

It depends a lot on what you want to do. There's no way to create a roadmap without knowing some vicinity of where you are headed.
It's kind of like your example but except somebody came in and said, "How do I get good at guitar"...well do you want to be Joe Pass? Christopher Parkening? or Van Halen?

Similarly, If you want to do video game music or mostly electronic stuff, then do you need to sit down with full scores, learning multiple clefs, write fugues, etc?

One thing that basically always applies is to sit down with music you enjoy, want to write like and dissect it for all it's worth, use that as a place of inspiration to write your own music from. One thing I always do is I study the people's lifes whose music I admire, what did they know? I probably want to know the same things or at least a great deal of them.

Have you posted your music? What do people say about it? What are common errors you make? That's where you form a mode of an attack. That offers more than some generic outline.

The thing is from what I've seen on here, 10 different people are going to give you 10 different answers and none of it may be right for you. I saw people on another forum telling a guy that wants to primarily do EMP and Rap production that he needed to study baroque counterpoint the other day; meanwhile, he didn't know the basics of harmony, smh.


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## ed buller (Nov 2, 2018)

you should know the following:

Diatonic Harmony
Functional Harmony
Non-Functional Harmony
Voice Leading
Counterpoint
Circle Of Fifths
Secondary Dominants
Modal Mixture
Chromatic Harmony ( both as an extension of Diatonic, Neapolitan, French, Italian and German Aug 6 chords , Mixture etc ) and as it's own system
Neo Riemannian theory
Octatonic scales ( there are three ) and their modes
Modes of limited Transposition
Pitch sets and their uses
extended chords
quartile and quintal harmony
Polychords
Hexatonic scales and sytems
Synthesis

you should also have a thorough knowledge of musical idioms and cliches in a variety of styles and how to score them .

for instance:

Action, Horror, Romantic, Adventure, Magic, Outer space...etc.....But bear in mind Bernard Herrmann's outer space might well sound like some one else's horror . Pretty much all of this is on the internet.

You should take apart as many pieces as possible. Just to see how they tick.

A great starting point:



what's going on here ?

how do these chords connect, is it in a key ?

or this :




what is different about them, They both use very similar chord choices

or this:



root movement by seconds....very different sound .

or this:



octatonic harmony.

and this



very different Octatonic Harmony


you should be able to do a decent replica of the following composers:


Erich Korngold
Hans Zimmer
John Barry
Jerry Goldsmith
Bernard Herrmann
John Williams
James Horner
Alan Silvestri

Best

ed


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## Paul Grymaud (Nov 3, 2018)

I totally agree with Ed. After (or before) developing these numerous skills, You ought to develop your ears


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## Kiwifruit (Nov 3, 2018)

Wow! First question, so many good responses.

In answer to Jhughes: I don't know who I want to be yet. Even with guitar which I've played for 10 years I still don't have my own style yet. I'm still flying through genres and artists and falling in and out of love. I am still very young though at 26.

Ed your answer is amazing. I was reading through your post thinking, ''I don't know that, or that, or that.'' I have so much to learn and so much to do which is exciting.



This is the first piece of music I ever finished and I understand that it's pretty terrible for a lot of reasons. It's not even the kind of music I enjoy listening to it's just something I decided to make because it was halloween and I didn't know how a trap beat worked.

Music like this moves me and it's what I want to write:

 (Sonder)

 (Lost)

 (Just beautiful, no words)

 (End of Life/Rock)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMuQ11tVJnk (Pure Anxiety)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhrteSZXFzM (I get really strange complex feelings off this)

It's humbling when you start to understand the complexity of an area and how much you really suck at everything. I wanted was a bit of guidance and I definitely got that. It's up to me to go and look into all this and how it works. Thank you for the list of things to look into.

Watching through these videos now, I'm glad you used film scores and classical pieces because I don't just want to make catchy music, I want to make music that connects people and emotions. Really understand how a sound makes people feel. It's been a long time since I actually sat and listened to adagio for strings and it still makes me cry. I can't figure out why but it's just beautiful. How do I recreate that?

Music is one of those things that everyone told me wasn't a viable career choice but I haven't found anything else that's even close to the expression I want to share with other people in another career so far.

I wouldn't even know where to start dissecting these pieces of music. I wish I could find a job where someone would just take me under the wing and teach it all to me. I'm a digital marketer by trade and it just feels so empty.


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## JohnG (Nov 3, 2018)

Honestly, I don't think a checklist of techniques is as important as trying to develop your taste. People don't hire us because we know a lot of technical stuff -- they hire us because of a point of view about music as it relates to story and character.

Not for a moment saying it's not useful to know a lot of technique; I use everything I ever learned in each project. But, by "everything," I include experience as a performer, experience as a family member (the good and the bad), experience as a friend, an athlete; the full range of emotions from the laudable to the shameful -- all of it.

Most actors have to play bad people, not just heroes. They have to find that part of themselves that's malicious, or arrogant, or selfish, or cruel, and _inhabit_ it. They can't just twirl a mustache and trot out a sinister laugh and think that does the trick. The best actors convince the audience that they really _are_ bad.

I think composers need the same toolbox. 

So, paint pictures, grow plants, feed someone homeless -- but also picture the cruelty of war, of actually hacking another person to death with a sword or firing a weapon into someone. Given recent times, there may well be members here who've been through intense experiences.

Whatever the subject, the composers I admire the most bring it and don't condescend to it. Take JNH's scores for "The Hunger Games." At one level, it's pretty trivial sci-fi whose characters and story lines don't hold up to 10 seconds' scrutiny. But what does JNH do with it? He approaches it as though it's a real place, and the characters have genuine depth to them.

I think that's what we get hired to do, not because of our knowledge of octatonic scales or 3d-relationship chord progressions.


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## Kiwifruit (Nov 3, 2018)

Thanks for that response that means a lot.

I get what you're saying. I'm trying to widen my vocabulary so I know how to make a sound that 'feels like anxiety' or 'feels like rage' or 'feels like euphoria'.

It's a balance between the two. I've got some cool experiences to share but I don't have the vocab.


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## Saxer (Nov 3, 2018)

There is an endless lot to learn. But I don't think it's important to know everything before 'being' a composer. There are a lot of composers who don't know a lot of all that but write great tracks. Beginners who know only three chords simply write songs with three chords. All the time you add any knowledge you can try this out and add it to your palette by writing new music.
What really helps is playing music. Making music with people. Try out your tracks in bands and orchestras. For that it's important to know how to write for the instruments (i.e. articulations and expression). If you write for brass you should know people playing brass instruments. Watch them when they play your stuff. Talk with them.
And no matter on what level of knowledge it's important to get things done. A mediocre but finished composition is always more than a half written and never finished genius work.
DAW work is always the simulation of composing for people. It will follow the knowledge of the real thing.


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## ed buller (Nov 3, 2018)

yes it's important to start writing straight away. Just like your first driving lesson. You get to drive !...albeit it 5 mph. But you don't sit in a classroom and learn the history of the combustion engine. Learning should be in Parallel with doing. But being aware of what you should be picking up as you go I think is helpful. And yes JohnG is quite correct that you won't get hired repeatedly because you've aced a bunch of tests and are a harmonic know-all. However it is a ridiculously crowded market. There are people willing to replace you and do it for nothing at all times. So I personally think you should have an advantage in every possible area. And one area where no can hinder your progress is skills !

best

e


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## JohnG (Nov 3, 2018)

Kiwifruit said:


> It's a balance between the two. I've got some cool experiences to share but I don't have the vocab.



Ok -- you're right. Here are some thoughts:

*1. Basic-but-major-skills:* If you can't read music or play an instrument well, get started. If you want to do more than poke about, if you want to work as a composer with normal deadlines, you will need both of those skills. Or at least a good bit of one!

If you can't read music you will be held back learning fast from what "just works," which you can find in Richard Strauss, maybe Wagner, John Williams, Respighi, maybe Stravinsky, and other scores that are out there. Ravel and Debussy (who used to be lifted constantly for movie scores), and even Chopin have a lot of harmony and (at least for R & D) orchestration you can incorporate.

If you play well you can absorb a lot of it like that -- get some scores (or piano reductions) and play through them.

*2. Emotions and Harmony and...:* Tom Newman rhetorically asked me once, "What makes music sad?"* Good question! Emotion in music comes from some predictable things like tempo, volume and mode (slow, quiet and minor is more contemplative / melancholy than fast, loud and major), so that's an obvious place to start. That said, we can all think of pop songs and movie score examples that run against that. If you can read music and are patient, most people think Barber's "Adagio" is sad, so you could analyse that.

I don't think there's a "bag of harmony tricks" that will exactly work like a cookbook, but of course if you want tension/ heartache / loss you can use lots of suspensions, unresolved notes from the prior chords. If you want the opposite, don't do that.

*3. Orchestration:* John Williams more or less is a repository of the entire 19th century bag of tricks in and of himself. If you buy a couple of his popular orchestral suite scores you can learn an incredible amount (need to read music but...). Or go straight to the sources (list above). Plus, he knows jazz too. He knows pretty much everything.

*4. What if you can't read music?* I still think you need to learn at least something about this, but if you don't, or while you're learning, YouTube is a great resource, whether or not you read music. Junkie XL has helpful videos  , and Christian Henson (from Spitfire) has a million 

---------------
* He did, though I don't want to imply we are big mates or anything. He's an amazing composer though, so I think he's well worth quoting.


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## imagegod (Nov 3, 2018)

Some respectful disagreements:
"*1. Basic-but-major-skills:* If you can't read music or play an instrument well, get started. "
Why? If composition is your goal, then compose. Who cares what 'real' instruments actually do? (Assuming you're not looking to compose for a physical orchestra). You don't need to pound a piano with real fingers when you can draw a chord. Same with any virtual instrument.

"You should know scales."
Why? With a good DAW (like Reaper), you can simply learn a scale 'on the fly' by choosing a given scale and compose away. Do you need to learn what it SOUNDS like? Absolutely. Do you need to know the notes? Not if composing is your goal.

I could go on, but it's fairly simply: A good DAW--in conjunction with a willingness to experiment, listen, and work hard--will give you music theory skills without the need to actually learn music theory.

If you want to learn all that stuff...by all means, go ahead. But a DAW will let you compose without knowing scales, or time signatures, or modes, or anything that music uses to communicate between the composer and the human orchestra.

A good DAW mitigates that need, allowing a good composer to communicate directly with your audience.

Communicate away!


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## JohnG (Nov 3, 2018)

imagegod said:


> "*1. Basic-but-major-skills:* If you can't read music or play an instrument well, get started. "
> Why?



Why?

If you can neither play an instrument well nor read music, you will have a hard time competing in scoring or -- anything in music, really. Absent fairy-tale budgets for helpers, there just isn't enough time to figure out everything on the fly.

If you want to noodle, or write songs by ear, of course that's possible, but those who succeeded via that path could play their instruments incredibly well, often could sing and had a lot of charisma, and had rare imaginations on top of that. Besides, it doesn't make any sense to suggest that people succeed who "don't know theory;" McCartney and Lennon knew chord progressions and song structure. That's theory.

I have read many times this same idea -- that hard work and passion alone are all you need. But it's tough, nearly impossible, to work with so little if you want to do this for a living; music theory, mastery of an instrument, and reading scores really help.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 3, 2018)

imagegod said:


> Some respectful disagreements:
> "*1. Basic-but-major-skills:* If you can't read music or play an instrument well, get started. "
> Why? If composition is your goal, then compose. Who cares what 'real' instruments actually do? (Assuming you're not looking to compose for a physical orchestra). You don't need to pound a piano with real fingers when you can draw a chord. Same with any virtual instrument.
> 
> ...


Or you can stop being lazy and learn your bloody craft.


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## ed buller (Nov 3, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Or you can stop being lazy and learn your bloody craft.



What he said !

e


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## imagegod (Nov 3, 2018)

I assumed respectful disagreement would result in disagreement returned. Insults...not so much.

You know nothing of my work habits...calling me lazy is an insult I'll leave to stand (or fall) of its own weight.

I'll disagree no more and respectfully leave you to your craft.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 3, 2018)

imagegod said:


> I assumed respectful disagreement would result in disagreement returned. Insults...not so much.
> 
> You know nothing of my work habits...calling me lazy is an insult I'll leave to stand (or fall) of its own weight.
> 
> I'll disagree no more and respectfully leave you to your craft.


It wasn't directed at you personally (I don't know anything about you or your knowledge of theory).

I was in the same boat thinking that theory was old hat, would lead me to sound like everyone else and because of that I lost 4-5 years of decent music making as I was being lazy.


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## Kiwifruit (Nov 3, 2018)

I don't know how to read music. I understand how a staff works but I can never remember exactly where each note goes and recognise a chord by the series of dots. No problem with the timings, signatures and everything else, though.

Any good resources for efficiently learning to read music? (emphasis on efficiency)

I'm more trying to home in on the useful resources within the white noise that is now the internet. I'm open to good books, as long as they're good.


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## Kony (Nov 3, 2018)

Kiwifruit said:


> Any good resources for efficiently learning to read music? (emphasis on efficiency)


Lessons In The Rudiments Of Music By Cuthbert Harris


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## jhughes (Nov 4, 2018)

Wow, I guess we like our chords and harmony around here.
Basically, I think it's hyper focused on one area of music.

No mentions of RHYTHM. Which I think is the biggest flaw.
Ted Reed's Syncopation book....that's my #1 recommendation to any musician.

Nor is there any mention of musical forms, sentence construction or dynamics? What about sight-singing or singing altogether? Singing helps with phrasing/writing melodies and ear training.

You know, I've heard a ton of music online and I don't ever recall thinking, this persons music would be better if they just knew their augmented sixth chords or the whole tone scale. It's not something I'd put on a checklist without knowing anything about a person.

On the other hand, I do recall thinking-this has no development, no groove and has no dynamic range. Often things that have nothing to do with harmony.
Some of the absolute worst music I've ever heard has been by people completely obsessed with chord knowledge and substitutions. I'm sure they could breeze right through any harmonic checklist but couldn't write a simple three chord song.

I would never give someone a checklist anymore than I would tell someone if they want to gain muscle you should do these 50 different exercises or squat 500 pounds if I have no idea of their strengths.

Run by thought-Where is improvising while I'm at it? Create a bassline, take one theme and improvise using nothing but that over the bassline? Take simple melodies, using degrees (let's say 1-2-3-1 and be able to play that over any chord in any key?

I could make a list of things that aren't just chords/harmony.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Nov 4, 2018)

To me it seems a fool's errand to specifically train oneself to be a "media composer". It's so much built around developing yourself into the ultimate copycat and music vending machine, but then again your "career" will most probably never take off. You are then left with a crappy sense of musicality and nothing in return.

I'd learn an instrument and master at least elementary theory though.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 4, 2018)

jhughes said:


> Wow, I guess we like our chords and harmony around here.
> Basically, I think it's hyper focused on one area of music.
> 
> No mentions of RHYTHM. Which I think is the biggest flaw.
> ...


But see, you're literally making a list before our very eyes.

OP want's to know what he doesn't know and being able to condense even just the acorn of each area can help one immensely understand all dimensions of music (and know where their strengths and weaknesses lie). It can always be referenced to ensure all avenues are being explored.

Ps. I don't disagree with any of the areas of study you mentioned, in fact I strongly agree with rhythm - so very important.


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## ed buller (Nov 4, 2018)

jhughes said:


> Wow, I guess we like our chords and harmony around here.
> Basically, I think it's hyper focused on one area of music.
> 
> No mentions of RHYTHM. Which I think is the biggest flaw.
> ...




yes rhythm is very important. I just forgot it. Also Musical Form too...although your not going to get much chance to show off a Rondo you should still know it ! .But I would respectfully disagree about the rest of your argument. There really is no such thing as a "media composer" with regards to musical skills needed. Yes you'll need other skills of course, heaps of them. People skills being amongst the most important but I thought the OP was just after a list of musical subjects he should know. In which case I stand by my list. As to not thinking that Aug6 chords are important again we disagree . Much of my frustration and dislike of many a modern soundtrack is the complete lack of depth contained with in it. !. The great composers find some room for detail. Either Harmonic or Sonic. I just can't understand why if you are going to learn something as wonderful as music you wouldn't want to be really really good at it ! . A lot of harmonic forms are perhaps old fashioned and linked to cliches. Dim 7ths chords spring to mind but if you wish to be a complete musician you should know about them. Studying music is a minefield and it's very easy to get lost. But a list of topics to be at least looked at, if not absorbed completely struck me as a smart inquiry !


best


ed


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## NoamL (Nov 4, 2018)

Hi @Kiwifruit

you have some interesting musical ideas already! Your piece "Spooker Town" is certainly more interesting than the first piece of music _I_ ever wrote 

regarding this idea, you're on the right track:

_*"I'm trying to widen my vocabulary so I know how to make a sound that 'feels like anxiety' or 'feels like rage' or 'feels like euphoria'."*_

I think you can do 2 things to move towards this goal:

1. Learn to *read music*, as suggested by most other people, especially what @JohnG said about it. Ignore anybody who says learning theory or learning to read music will limit your creativity or make music less inspiring - they're totally wrong.

2. Download an audio-intercepting software like Audacity, Screenflow, Soundflower, etc. Any time you are watching a movie or TV show on your computer and you hear something that sounds cool or makes you wonder *how* the composer created that mood in their music, record that snippet. Save all your recorded snippets in a folder in your computer and when you have spare time, try *transcribing & studying your snippets.* You don't have to write it down as sheet music. You can just import the audio into your DAW and figure out the music one instrument at a time or one line at a time, using a MIDI piano. Initially, if you don't have much ear training, this will be a challenge. You can always "cheat" by doing things like: stretching the audio to slow it down and hear fast parts more accurately... using a pitch shift plugin to raise the audio an octave so you can hear the bass more clearly... using an EQ filter to isolate high or low frequencies so you can hear a particular instrument more clearly... etc. It may also help you to fill a paper notebook with your notes & discoveries about how composers create each mood (writing things down is proven to help your memory more than typing).

This method of study will not create instant results but after a while you will get some great benefits.

1) you will be a more active listener and pay more attention to music in movies & tv

2) you will learn to recognize "by ear" certain musical devices & techniques that you've transcribed a lot. *Instead of being wowed by the magic trick, you will be like a fellow magician recognizing the tricks other magicians use.*

3) you will deepen your own musical vocabulary. When you are creatively stumped you will be able to think "Why don't I try this trick or that one" instead of just waiting for inspiration.

4) you will be able to write your own ideas down faster because you will develop your intuitive sense of pitches, intervals and scales. You will be able to think of or hum a piece of music and have a good guess mentally of how it should go on the piano.

5) your study will be focused on what interests YOU and what YOU want to learn to "write like." If you want to learn to write complex orchestral music, or ambient chillout music, or epic trailer music, etc - record and transcribe whatever inspires you.


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## JohnG (Nov 4, 2018)

nice one @NoamL


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## JohnG (Nov 4, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> To me it seems a fool's errand to specifically train oneself to be a "media composer". It's so much built around developing yourself into the ultimate copycat and music vending machine, but then again your "career" will most probably never take off. You are then left with a crappy sense of musicality and nothing in return.



That is undoubtedly a risk. Because of the deadlines and temp tracks and other pressures, conscious effort is required to avoid being a "vending machine," as you put it. 

Certainly, if you just sound like everyone else you get the worst possible jobs and never get hired for _you_.



Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I'd learn an instrument and master at least elementary theory though.



Yes.


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## Kiwifruit (Nov 4, 2018)

Kony said:


> Lessons In The Rudiments Of Music By Cuthbert Harris








Sweet thank you!


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## Kiwifruit (Nov 4, 2018)

jhughes said:


> No mentions of RHYTHM. Which I think is the biggest flaw.
> Ted Reed's Syncopation book....that's my #1 recommendation to any musician.








*sponge absorbs information*


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## Kiwifruit (Nov 4, 2018)

Here is everything so far mentioned, condensed into a 'Beginner's Musical Checklist'.

Perhaps we could add to this, maybe expand it, re-order it and make it into something really useful for everyone? 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gwv71REe_hZzWidrwq999PpQ-TgCRFW1wjfq2RP2GGo/edit?usp=sharing

Did I miss anything important?


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## GtrString (Nov 5, 2018)

This will probably go unnoticed, but I would suggest learn how to say something with music is the most important thing to learn. One thing is all the technical stuff, which help build the vocabulary to say anything. But learning how to tell a story with a piece of music is crucial, because otherwise you will just have a bunch of letters you cant put together into something intelligible. Music as a technical exercise only is “gibberish”.

This is something you can learn from other arts. Study dramaturgy, novels, how to write books, and see how they put bits and pieces together to tell a story. Then work on making analogies to musical parts and arrangements, so you can use the musical elements to say something.

If you find out what is important for you to talk about with your music, then you may not need half the technical stuff. In fact, you may find your own musical voice by working around the things you dont know, in your own way.

Its putting the horse in front of the carriage, not the other way around.. stuff.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 5, 2018)

imagegod said:


> I could go on, but it's fairly simply: A good DAW--in conjunction with a willingness to experiment, listen, and work hard--will give you music theory skills without the need to actually learn music theory.



No offence, but that is ill advice. I used to have this naive ideology, but in reality, I was drastically (and ignorantly) limiting my skills. Something as simple as taking formal piano lessons, with a good teacher, is a solid lesson in so many musical disciplines (theory, performance, scales, music history, sight reading, composition, etc).


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## ed buller (Nov 5, 2018)

The Internet is your friend:

Alain's Lessons are fantastic 

https://scoreclub.net/


Lot's of free info here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTUtqcDkzw7bisadh6AOx5w

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJquYOG5EL82sKTfH9aMA9Q

https://www.youtube.com/user/jawg22/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8R8FRt1KcPiR-rtAflXmeg

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSt_ZRe_mla4tRgYC_GNElQ

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4ihNhN8iN9QPg2XTxiiPJw

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk_jzTmW2Fmfnm70c2kZHpQ

Best

ed


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