# Anybody seen this yet: The Orchestra



## Silence-is-Golden (Apr 5, 2017)

(ps: no affiliate, just interest)

*Coming Soon: The Orchestra*






*The Orchestra by Sonuscore puts the sound of a complete European session orchestra at your fingertips.*

Instead of going for the polished Hollywood-sound, we took a more direct approach, leaving our samples sound as real and edgy as possible. In a light-weight and no nonsense approach, all important articulations are made available to you in a streamlined and efficient virtual instrument. All sections are recorded in one room and designed to sound together out of the box without a lot of effort in mixing.

With the groundbreaking *Ensemble-Engine*, The Orchestra provides a vast number of* inspiring orchestral colors and rhythms* for you to discover. 





*"The Orchestra" € 399.- "coming soon"*


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## novaburst (Apr 6, 2017)

Yes, looking forward for the full review on this and what composers think about it. 

Seems to be an answer to a lot of wishes but we will see


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## Christof (Apr 6, 2017)

No nonsense!
I had to laugh while watching the trailer.
Quite arrogant in my opinion because they are shooting against their competitors indirectly and everyone knows what and who they mean.
I am not a fan of those instant libraries.
Curious to see what this will be.


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## Jaap (Apr 6, 2017)

I find the trailer in someway sort of insulting with all this no nonsense stuff... but I do like the sound and will try to hold on with my instant grudge after seeing this trailer to see what they come up with


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## rottoy (Apr 6, 2017)

It doesn't really come off as arrogant to me, I take the trailer proclamations as humour.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 6, 2017)

I guess that is not what @SONUSCORE intended with his product trailer? 

I think they just want to set themselves apart from the regular extensive 100 Million knobs orchetral libraries. But yes, I can understand that some people have their problems with the trailer because it can feel a bit snotty ecpecially after the "nonsense" quote..

I have so far invested enough into phrase based libraries to back up my normal orchestral libraries. I am anyways of the opinion that phrase libraries can be cool in case to supplement your compositions but not enitrely to replace them. But that´s just my opinion and anyone who loves to work with those libraries exclusively is welcome to do so.


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## ysnyvz (Apr 6, 2017)

They are a bit pretentious, aren't they?


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## rottoy (Apr 6, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> They are a bit pretentious, aren't they?



Come on, you must see that they are being hyperbolic on purpose to get a reaction?
I'm pretty sure they don't have any delusions of grandeur.


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## ysnyvz (Apr 6, 2017)

rottoy said:


> Come on, you must see that they are being hyperbolic on purpose to get a reaction?
> I'm pretty sure they don't have any delusions of grandeur.


Of course, I do. But I still think it sounds a bit pretentious. Probably because I respect developers who let the products speak more than themselves a little more.


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## Hanu_H (Apr 6, 2017)

I downloaded the free patches and they sound good. The full orchestra patch has 4 different "sections" in the keyboard. Full orchestra, the low, mid and high. Low section plays only in unison, so inversions are possible. Others play major or minor chord depending on the velocity. Full orchestra plays all the sections together. Strings sustained has 4 sections as well but here all the sections play chords, no inversions possible. And strings actually play tremolos not sustains. It is a good sounding orchestra, more aimed for classical sound than modern film music. I am interested to see how the full library works.

-Hannes


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## novaburst (Apr 6, 2017)

I think also the surprise is that developers are still pushing for may i say excellence or inovatation, with pure orchestral.

As i said before other developers seem to believe that orchestral would sound better with sound effects and glitches and stuttering effects which in turn just sounds like any other synth or so, arias I would strongly avoid.

But it's great for them who still believe in better.


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## AdamAlake (Apr 6, 2017)

I do not think "over-complex" is a word.


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## Saxer (Apr 6, 2017)

AdamAlake said:


> I do not think "over-complex" is a word.


I have an over-complex. Afraid of overdubs.


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## Mike Fox (Apr 6, 2017)

I think their approach is kinda ironic. Top dog developers release polished libraries with tons of bells and whistles, because we asked for it. We got tired of the limitations, and simply wanted more. I guess we dont know whats good for us. 

With that said, I'm not going to brown nose the high end developers and pretend that they should be free from mockery when it's all in good fun.


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## Zhao Shen (Apr 6, 2017)

Funnily enough, after being conditioned by waves of traditional orchestral sample marketing, a lot of the claims they make sound like weaknesses rather than strengths...

But eh. People are overreacting. You haven't seen the product yet, so you can't judge it yet. Maybe it's actually going to revolutionize sampling. It's not pretentious to market your product as superior to your competitors. Was it pretentious when Google took shots at Apple in their Pixel trailer? Hell no, it was smart (and hilarious).

However, the marketing will set a pretty high bar for this library. If it turns out to be more or less the same as many of the current phrase-based offerings, people will make it a laughingstock. So, kind of risky from them to do it this way, but maybe it really is as good as they are making it out to be. Seems like they're confident, at least.


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## ysnyvz (Apr 6, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> It's not pretentious to market your product as superior to your competitors. Was it pretentious when Google took shots at Apple in their Pixel trailer? Hell no, it was smart (and hilarious).


Your post is so ironic. In that video Google says "Hey Apple, we have something that you don't."
Here, Sonuscore says "Hey big developers, you know all those expansive features you have with your libraries. We don't have any of them, because they are nonsense."


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## Zhao Shen (Apr 6, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> Your post is so ironic. In that video Google says "Hey Apple, we have something that you don't."
> Here, Sonuscore says "Hey big developers, you know all those expansive features you have with your libraries. We don't have any of them, because they are nonsense."



The situations aren't identical. But they both prove the point:



Zhao Shen said:


> It's not pretentious to market your product as superior to your competitors.



As for "no nonsense," it's a pretty common phrase used to highlight straightforwardness. I don't think they're trying to say "no nonsense" as in "the features other devs spend time on are useless."


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## Quasar (Apr 6, 2017)

AdamAlake said:


> I do not think "over-complex" is a word.



It is now. Language is ever evolving, so no need to over-complexify it... 

I'm interested in this at least enough to find out exactly what it is when the information becomes available. I did get an email offering an intro price discount of 25% until April 10th, yet their site says the release is going to be in May. If they're asking us to buy blind based on the teasers, then I'm definitely not interested in that. A comprehensive walkthough video would be lovely...


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## ysnyvz (Apr 6, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> But they both prove the point


Wait, your opinion suddenly became a proof. That changes everything.


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## Letis (Apr 6, 2017)

Got also Mail from them but the 25% intro price discount is for their Evolution Atlantica Library which is also mentioned in this Advertising-Mail. For "The Orchestra" isn´t even a price or release date announced..if i understand it right...



Tugboat said:


> It is now. Language is ever evolving, so no need to over-complexify it...
> 
> I'm interested in this at least enough to find out exactly what it is when the information becomes available. I did get an email offering an intro price discount of 25% until April 10th, yet their site says the release is going to be in May. If they're asking us to buy blind based on the teasers, then I'm definitely not interested in that. A comprehensive walkthough video would be lovely...


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## Quasar (Apr 6, 2017)

Letis said:


> Got also Mail from them but the 25% intro price discount is for their Evolution Atlantica Library which is also mentioned in this Advertising-Mail. For "The Orchestra" isn´t even a price or release date announced..if i understand it right...



Correct you are. OOPS! The email just scrolls down, and on further review the 25% thing appears to be above Evolution, not below The Orchestra. I read it wrong. Thanks for clarifying.


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## JonSolo (Apr 6, 2017)

Which is confusing because I though Keep Forest did the Evolutions.


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## Quasar (Apr 6, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> Which is confusing because I though Keep Forest did the Evolutions.


Not to mention Darwin... As the field becomes ever more crowded, we'll no doubt see more of this. I got Evolution Dragon confused with Evolution Series percussion at first.


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## Zhao Shen (Apr 6, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> Wait, your opinion suddenly became a proof. That changes everything.



Sigh... You take idioms too seriously.


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## The Darris (Apr 6, 2017)

JonSolo said:


> Which is confusing because I though Keep Forest did the Evolutions.


Yes, Evolution Atlantica was developed by Keep Forest. I had to clarify with them before my review went live as I saw it being sold on SonuScore's site. They [SonuScore] are simply acting as a distributor.


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## ysnyvz (Apr 6, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> Sigh... You take idioms too seriously.


Dude, I made a comment about a video. Then you tried to disprove my subjective opinion with your subjective opinion. Now taking idioms too seriously is my fault? If you can't deal with their comebacks, don't pick on people.


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## Soundhound (Apr 6, 2017)

I think the promo is a little weird in that it seems a slam at one company in particular. Maybe that's just me...


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## Zhao Shen (Apr 6, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> Dude, I made a comment about a video. Then you tried to disprove my subjective opinion with your subjective opinion. Now taking idioms too seriously is my fault? If you can't deal with their comebacks, don't pick on people.



So maybe, as this is a forum post, my tone is not clear (should've added an emoji, i guess ). I'm not criticizing you or saying anything is anyone's "fault." Like, come on, this is the internet. Birthplace of viral cat videos and a dank quantity of memes. Not everything should be interpreted as being said in a stern manner.

Also, I think the "subjective opinion" part is implied. If I say that CSS is better than SSS, I doubt anyone assumes that I'm trying to assert some sort of natural law. Kind of defeats the purpose of forums otherwise.


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## Polkasound (Apr 6, 2017)

I see the video as nothing more than the most basic of marketing strategies -- creatively promoting a product to set it apart from the competition as something different and/or better. I'm confident it wasn't intended to slam any other libraries, but rather to simply call attention to what makes it unique. It's like the new Pepsi commercial. The commercial didn't specify any particular cause, topic, gender, religion, or race, yet so many people decided to create blanks, fill them in with their own thoughts, and become offended.

I like it when libraries find that perfect marriage between quality sound and an intuitive GUI. Certain developers like MusicLab and Realitone just seem to get that right. Electri6ity by Vir2, on the other hand, is arguably the most powerful guitar VI on the planet, but it's complexity is intimidating. I'm sure there are a lot of people who feel intimidated by many of the orchestral libraries out there. And perhaps that's where SonuScore comes in -- to approach the creation of the music from a different angle.


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## dcoscina (Apr 6, 2017)

It's disconcerting to see a rise in these type of auto pilot libraries wherein some of the most basic creative choices are done for the "composer". This will perpetuate the trend of non imaginative, aural wall paper we are seeing (or hearing) in music for media. More bland generic material. What the heck ever happened to coming up with this stuff on your own???

Sheesh. I know, I'm ready to get the proverbial backlash and statements of elitism and all the usual rhetoric but I had to say something....

And since this isn't under Commercial Releases, I do think it's fair game to talk about the philosophy behind these kinds of libraries.


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## Grizzlymv (Apr 6, 2017)

No matter what that nonsense or no-nonsense is, at the end of the day, they likely did that trailer to generate a buzz and it seems to works.  Say good things, say bad things, as long as you talk about it they say. The moment of truth and what really matters is if it will deliver once released, no matter what have been done, said or written prior to that. So let's wait and see.


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## Polkasound (Apr 6, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> This will perpetuate the trend of non imaginative, aural wall paper we are seeing (or hearing) in music for media.



I agree 100%. But even though there is a growing market for bands-in-a-box, construction kits, and other auto-pilot libraries, I'm confident we'll never run out of composers who insist on creating everything from scratch and libraries designed to serve their needs.


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## zacnelson (Apr 6, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> I think the promo is a little weird in that it seems a slam at one company in particular. Maybe that's just me...


Which company do you refer to?


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## Soundhound (Apr 6, 2017)

Starts with an S and ends with an E. Maybe it's not intended as a slam, but hopefully just a good natured tease? I love that company and use their stuff all the time, but this new product from Sonuscore looks like it could fill another role altogether and could be a great instrument to work with.


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## ysnyvz (Apr 6, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> Starts with an S and ends with an E


So they're slamming themselves 
Just kidding, I got what you mean. I thought same thing when I watched the video first time.


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## procreative (Apr 6, 2017)

My take on this is not a phrase based library but an ensemble Symphobia style pre-orchestrated one and while its obviously not going to compete with the high end sectional titles, like Orchestral Essentials it may have its place.

I say may, as it depends how good it sounds and if it has sufficient dynamics.

Put the promo to one side, how else do you promote a dumbed down library? You have to say that all others are over complicated, too many mic positions etc otherwise you are saying "our product is basic with loads of limitations".


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## ysnyvz (Apr 6, 2017)

procreative said:


> Put the promo to one side, how else do you promote a dumbed down library? You have to say that all others are over complicated, too many mic positions etc otherwise you are saying "our product is basic with loads of limitations".



Like this. You let the product tell what it is.


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## Quasar (Apr 6, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> I see the video as nothing more than the most basic of marketing strategies -- creatively promoting a product to set it apart from the competition as something different and/or better. I'm confident it wasn't intended to slam any other libraries, but rather to simply call attention to what makes it unique. It's like the new Pepsi commercial. The commercial didn't specify any particular cause, topic, gender, religion, or race, yet so many people decided to create blanks, fill them in with their own thoughts, and become offended.
> 
> I like it when libraries find that perfect marriage between quality sound and an intuitive GUI. Certain developers like MusicLab and Realitone just seem to get that right. Electri6ity by Vir2, on the other hand, is arguably the most powerful guitar VI on the planet, but it's complexity is intimidating. I'm sure there are a lot of people who feel intimidated by many of the orchestral libraries out there. And perhaps that's where SonuScore comes in -- to approach the creation of the music from a different angle.



First paragraph: Exactly. It's an ad, nothing more, nothing less. And it's clearly been successful, at least here, generating response as a conversation piece. No biggie.

Second Paragraph: A much more weighty, worthy subject... While Moore's law and all of that has made continuing advances in the depth and features of VIs possible and probably inevitable, one thing technology cannot do is generate the creative vision necessary for creating an innovative, fantastically user-friendly UI for _people_. IMO we're much further along with velocity layers and RRs than we are with the human, design aspect.


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## sostenuto (Apr 6, 2017)

Lotsa good stuff out there for $400. ....


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## NoamL (Apr 6, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> It's disconcerting to see a rise in these type of auto pilot libraries wherein some of the most basic creative choices are done for the "composer". I know, I'm ready to get the proverbial backlash and statements of elitism and all the usual rhetoric but I had to say something....



No, you're right.

"What if playing any chord created pulsating orchestral colors." What's the difference between that and dragging in someone else's track?

This sort of thing is apparently _very_ popular in the hiphop/trap/EDM world, where there are tons of developers selling "construction kits." Well, "construction kits" is actually a euphemism for "stems." Of a track someone else wrote.


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## Polkasound (Apr 6, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> one thing technology cannot do is generate the creative vision necessary for creating an innovative, fantastically user-friendly UI for _people_



You are right, since creativity is something that comes only from human experience. To make a virtual instrument as good as possible, you can't have just a good scripter or engineer put one together. The interface needs to be designed from the perspective of the casual musician, because musicians often do not think like engineers or scripters.

A couple years ago I bought a brand-name (non-music-related) digital product and was stymied by the users manual. It was obviously written by people from the company's engineering department. They knew the product extremely well, of course, but they didn't have the skills to transcribe their knowledge at a layman's level. Their product's ratings suffered as a result. Once I figured out how to use the product, I spent a couple days creating a website with easy-to-follow charts and explanations for the benefit of others -- things that should have been in the manual in the first place.

Not to pick on Vir2, but Electri6ity was apparently not designed for use by percussionists, pianists, brass or woodwind players. It was designed for musicians who have experience in guitar performance. To make a virtual instrument appeal to the widest market base, the instrument needs to sound great out of the box and have an intuitive GUI. Everyone's needs are different, so GUIs will always be subjective. There will never be such a thing as the perfect GUI. But I think having a musician's input in the design is essential.


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## SONUSCORE (Apr 11, 2017)

Hi guys,

thank you very much for taking the time to discuss about „The Orchestra“. We can’t wait to get it to all the composers out there in early May.
Regarding the discussion here on the board we felt that we maybe should comment on two things:


No-Nonsense: One person (Zhao Shen) cut right to the chase of the matter. "No-Nonsense“ was meant with a wink for us here and just commonly means „straightforward“ in terms of quick workflows without getting bogged down in details. A new approach of composing that doesn’t distract your creativity with too many options, too many settings and too many features luring you away from the very heart of your compositional idea. That’s the core idea of „The Orchestra“ and that was reflected from the very beginning by our internal working title: "No-Nonsense-Library“. We never intended to be presumptuous or disrespectful. We love complex and feature-rich libraries, and we definitely don’t want to miss them in our daily composing work.
Is „The Orchestra“ going to be a phrase library? Well, as Yoda once said:“Patience you must have, my young padawan”. But we might have already answered that unintentionally.
We’ll be happy to give you some more information, demos and screens within the next weeks.

Thanks for your time.

Over and out,
your Sonuscore Team


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## prodigalson (Apr 11, 2017)

NoamL said:


> "What if playing any chord created pulsating orchestral colors." What's the difference between that and dragging in someone else's track?



I mean, that's basically exactly what Sonokinetic's approach is.


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## Iskra (Apr 11, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> Electri6ity by Vir2, on the other hand, is arguably the most powerful guitar VI on the planet, but it's complexity is intimidating


Actually it will take less time to learn how to play a real guitar than it takes to learn all the micro-options of the library.


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## StatKsn (Apr 11, 2017)

NoamL said:


> No, you're right.
> 
> "What if playing any chord created pulsating orchestral colors." What's the difference between that and dragging in someone else's track?
> 
> This sort of thing is apparently _very_ popular in the hiphop/trap/EDM world, where there are tons of developers selling "construction kits." Well, "construction kits" is actually a euphemism for "stems." Of a track someone else wrote.



From "claptrap" to amen break to 80's shout one shot to sampled orch hit to reggae air horn to growl to trap chant to foley sounds, sampling is always there in the realms of dance music. To me it's hard to tell what's the real difference between sampling and using stems, since DJs will cut and paste parts by 1/2/4/8 measures anyway.

I initially cringed at the concept of construction kits, but in practice it's nothing disruptive.


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## SONUSCORE (May 13, 2017)

A couple of weeks ago we announced our upcoming software instrument *"THE ORCHESTRA"*. We're in the final stages of production and can't wait to get it out to you composers. We announced a release date in May but it will take us a bit longer to guarantee you a flawless composing experience. We plan to release it in June and we can promise you one thing: *It's worth the wait!*

Meanwhile, we're having fun composing with *"THE ORCHESTRA"* and testing it out 
To shorten the waiting time we want to show you a small video that we recorded yesterday which shows *"THE ORCHESTRA"* in action.

Enjoy


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## Silence-is-Golden (May 13, 2017)

Ok, thanks for posting this teaser, but unfortunately I already hear that this will not be for me. Hopefully there are enough for whom this might be a tool to use.


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## SONUSCORE (Jun 17, 2017)

We're happy to announce the release date for THE ORCHESTRA. June 23rd it will be.
We also have trailer for you guys. Check it out:



We can't wait to get it to you composers out there.

Best regards,
your Sonuscore team


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## JonSolo (Jun 17, 2017)

Looks to be fantastic!


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## muziksculp (Jun 17, 2017)

Very interesting, looking forward to the release of *The Orchestra* (soon) !


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## ctsai89 (Jun 17, 2017)

So I just found out sonuscore is the maker of action strikes/evolution atlantica. Looks like this product will be a real good in addition especially if you're composing (or you want to) for industry standard modern films


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## Zhao Shen (Jun 17, 2017)

The shorts sound fantastic - the longs are alright. In the context of that specific arrangement they sound pretty good, but in the more naked examples they sounded pretty lame - essentially just normal VST sustains.


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 18, 2017)

I think this is going to be a marmite library, and the last two videos seem to sound as if they are for different products.

As I don't exactly think its clear how this product works exactly, I think it's only fair to give a fair hearing on release.

Could be an excellent noodling library......


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## MillsMixx (Jun 18, 2017)

This one's been on my radar from day 1 as I knew it was delayed till June release. One of the reasons I didn't jump on the BH Spitfire Library as I already have all the Albions, etc..

Some people don't want easy peasy "instant orchestra in a box" but even if the sounds don't live up to other libraries with lots of legato options it looks like a great idea starter where we won't have to load a bunch of other libraries into the same 1 instance of Kontakt. I love that it's designed differently and can bring instant results.

Mose impressive it's even got a choir! Hell ya and an Arpeggiator for some cool patterns. I've hear a few negative YouTube comments about the way they promote it as "no nonsense" followed by a user saying "no nonsense = no flexibility" but I can get flexibility from a ton of my other libraries and use this for instant sketching and the like. From the makers of Emotive Strings, Action Strings, & Action Strikes it looks similar only with the entire Orchestra. Can't wait to see a walkthrough.


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## StevenMcDonald (Jun 18, 2017)

So it looks like this does have individual instrument/section patches? So could this finally be a more modern and Kontakt based equivalent to EWQLSO? I like the idea of having a full orchestra in one package/library rather than several different ones.

I'd love to know which articulations are available for the split patches!


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## MillsMixx (Jun 19, 2017)

Coming this Friday.
Sonuscore replied back to someone's question on their Facebook page...and said that the price will be *399,00€.*

Hmmmm that's the same price as BH Spitfire's intro price. So much good stuff out there to choose from this year.
Totally different types of libraries for sure but I hope it's not more pricier than that as I surely won't ever be able to afford it! Even better would be an intro discount as well


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## zacnelson (Jun 19, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> I think this is going to be a marmite library


What do you mean by a `marmite library'? Is that good or bad?


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## bbunker (Jun 19, 2017)

zacnelson said:


> What do you mean by a `marmite library'? Is that good or bad?



Marmite: you either love it or you hate it.

Don't even get me started on Marmite flavoured crisps.


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## desert (Jun 19, 2017)

Great trailer! Beats our usual black screen of vagueness


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## procreative (Jun 20, 2017)

I am a bit confused as to what is actually in this library.

Seems there are Kontakt instruments that have essentially multi slots a bit like OT's Capsule to load individual instruments to make an ensemble.

But its not clear if all the patterns demonstrated are played or simply midi arpeggios/rhythms?

Their other titles such as Action Strings and Emotive Strings have actual recorded phrases, but based on the trailer it seems like these are sequenced patterns?

Hopefully on launch they will give a LOT more detail.


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## prodigalson (Jun 20, 2017)

procreative said:


> I am a bit confused as to what is actually in this library.
> 
> Seems there are Kontakt instruments that have essentially multi slots a bit like OT's Capsule to load individual instruments to make an ensemble.
> 
> ...



Sonuscore didn't make Action Strings or Emotive Strings. That was Dynamedion.


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## JC_ (Jun 20, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> Sonuscore didn't make Action Strings or Emotive Strings. That was Dynamedion.



I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure both companies are the same people.


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## procreative (Jun 20, 2017)

JC_ said:


> I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure both companies are the same people.



Boom Library, Dynamedion and Sonuscore are one and the same company.


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## prodigalson (Jun 20, 2017)

procreative said:


> Boom Library, Dynamedion and Sonuscore are one and the same company.



Aah, I had no idea. interesting. don't listen to me.


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## germancomponist (Jun 20, 2017)

Reminds me to Action String e.t.c. .... . Not my cup of tea, but for those who like it to play patterns, just do it. The sound is so so in my ears. I wish BS good luck with this library!


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## Iskra (Jun 20, 2017)

But it looks the patterns are produced by an arp and are not exactly pre-recorded. That would give it more flexibility, me thinks... Anyway, it sounds great, I have to say, and I can see it worth for many applications. More details needed!


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## germancomponist (Jun 20, 2017)

Iskra said:


> But it looks the patterns are produced by an arp and are not exactly pre-recorded. That would give it more flexibility, me thinks..!


 ... and therefore sound unnatural in the decay phase... .


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## JC_ (Jun 20, 2017)

I think it's probably a mix of phrases for shorts and then sampled longs & other articulations.


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## procreative (Jun 20, 2017)

When I use phrase libraries I prefer them to be real recorded patterns doing the kinds of things hard to do with multisampled instruments a la Sonokinetic stuff. Or aleotoric/fx stuff impossible without live players.

Otherwise you may as well use midi loops and drop them into your DAW.

In my opinion Arpeggiators and the like are great for idea kickstarters but other than shorts dont really work so well in the realism stakes.

The videos keep saying "simple", "easy to use" but setting up patches looks quite a task unless you just use the presets. Is it less work than using your own stuff you already own?

I do hope they do a proper walkthrough as the videos so far are a bit flaky. And I hate that mock mid-atlantic trailer voice!


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## Iskra (Jun 20, 2017)

germancomponist said:


> therefore sound unnatural in the decay phase... .


Hmm, does not sound unnatural to me in the video...
Anyway, obviously we need a proper walkthrough to get a clear idea on how this works.


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## Syneast (Jun 22, 2017)

Judging from the trailer, the brass sounds kind of good in an unpolished way.

If it has legato, I'm in. Maybe.


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## StevenMcDonald (Jun 22, 2017)

I'm surprised there aren't any real demos or walkthrough videos up yet... It comes out tomorrow.


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## ctsai89 (Jun 22, 2017)

is this based on europe? isn't it already tomorrow pretty much everywhere except mid and west USA?


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## zolhof (Jun 22, 2017)

StevenMcDonald said:


> I'm surprised there aren't any real demos or walkthrough videos up yet... It comes out tomorrow.



Don from Sample Library Review said he will do a First Look video tomorrow or Saturday. I've just watched the Herrmann Toolkit video and noticed The Orchestra already in his libraries tab haha


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## novaburst (Jun 23, 2017)

Nice review/link had no idea it was spitfire I guess you can be assured for quality sound.

It does sound very nice, was checking out the combinations of instruments it has but could not help but wonder to those who use templates would you not be using combinations in your compersition, 

The sound quality is refreshing, and it is very comprehensive in articulations and detail.

Would like to know what composers are being aimed at with this library.


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## ghandizilla (Jun 23, 2017)

It's all "select instrument -> articulation" and then "configure envelope (if sustain) or arpeggiator (if short)" and then "add more instruments to your patch to create your own arrangement". It comes with hundreds of preconfigured patches, a bit like Symphobia multis. (All that is guessable from the trailer.) So logically, there should be no legato, just shorts and chords-oriented sustains. Hence they were able to make a full-orchestra library which should not weight hundreds of gigabytes. Yep, it should allow more flexibility than phrase-based libraries, and yep, it should help to operate quickly. But in the same time: you would not have the complex articulations ability of phrase-based libraries, and you would be confined to the same epic ostinaty braam stuff heard thousands of times which uses about 1% of the potential of an orchestra. Plus the sound is just passable IMO. So i'll pass on this one.


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## SONUSCORE (Jun 23, 2017)

Hi guys,

we're happy to announce that "The Orchestra" is now available. We invite you to visit our website for great audio demos, a walkthrough video and more information about "The Orchestra".

http://sonuscore.com/shop/the-orchestra

Enjoy and best regards,
Your Sonuscore Team


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## zacnelson (Jun 23, 2017)

Are you planning to start your own thread about this in "commercial announcements"?


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## StevenMcDonald (Jun 23, 2017)

Legato included in a $400 full orchestra library? That's pretty cool! Hope it sounds great.


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## rottoy (Jun 23, 2017)

SONUSCORE said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> we're happy to announce that "The Orchestra" is now available. We invite you to visit our website for great audio demos, a walkthrough video and more information about "The Orchestra".
> 
> ...


I'm REALLY liking the tone! 
Any chance we can get a more in-depth walkthrough of the individual patches, legato for instance?


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## zacnelson (Jun 23, 2017)

Just listening to the demos.... are they all done using this product 100% exclusively? Anyway they are beautiful compositions and I'm surprised how much I love them, they are probably better than the music on the trailer video actually.


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## Harzmusic (Jun 23, 2017)

zacnelson said:


> Just listening to the demos.... are they all done using this product 100% exclusively?


I can speak for my demo (Stealing the Medaillon), that the only thing not from *The Orchestra* was the Sansula from Sonuscore Origins.


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## zewolfx (Jun 23, 2017)

couldn't resist... instabuy...
Download in progress, guess I'll have to wait to test it, as I'm at the office now. I'm listening to the demos and they sounds very good.
It's about approx 6.5Go to download by the way.


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## markleake (Jun 23, 2017)

Wow... the demos sound absolutely fantastic! Well done to the Sonuscore guys! This has well exceeded my expectations, and I was already looking forward to this library. It's great to see library producers innovating with new ideas like this. I may have to pull out the wallet, even though I thought I'd put a ban on new library purchases.


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## ghandizilla (Jun 23, 2017)

The demos show far more versatility than what the trailer showed us and what I would have expected from there. So I'm really happy to have been proven wrong on this point! Is the legato real or scripted? If it's a full orchestra with true legato, then at this price, it's a steal - and totally unexpected. (And then, if it's true legato, how can it be contained in just 7 gigabytes?)


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## markleake (Jun 23, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> The demos show far more versatility than what the trailer showed us and what I would have expected from there. So I'm really happy to have been proven wrong on this point! Is the legato real or scripted? If it's a full orchestra with true legato, then at this price, it's a steal - and totally unexpected. (And then, if it's true legato, how can it be contained in just 7 gigabytes?)


They say it is true legato in the walkthrough video. I assume that is for all the instruments listed in the PDF with legato:
http://sonuscore.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/TO-instrument-list.pdf


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## Tilman (Jun 23, 2017)

Hey guys,

thanks for your kind words! Concerning your questions:

1. Yes, it is true legato.
2. In our demos, all orchestral sounds and the choir are 100% The Orchestra. In a few demos, we used additional modern hybrid sounds. 

Cheers, Tilman


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## ghandizilla (Jun 23, 2017)

Hmm. Possible that they spared room by keeping just one mic position. There is plenty of room left for extensions: there isn't even trills! Impressive that they managed to fill so much content in so few space.


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## zacnelson (Jun 23, 2017)

I just watched the walkthrough video, I really love the function whereby you can press multiple keyswitches together to layer different articulations. This seems such a practical and obvious function, I love it! It makes me wonder why this is not available in other libraries? Certainly none of the sample libraries I own allow this, and I've often craved it.


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## Polkasound (Jun 23, 2017)

I think Sonuscore knocked it out of the park. They came up with a way to put a full orchestra in the hands of anyone and everyone who wants to make music for film, TV, and games -- composing experience helpful, but not required. I can picture someone wanting to make music for his friend's indie movie, but not really having anything specific in his head, so he goes through the different presets and says, "Oh, I like this one. I think I'll use it."

Considering how The Orchestra sounds and is designed, I can see it appealing to a wide range of composers and being a huge success. Congrats to Sonuscore!


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## ghandizilla (Jun 23, 2017)

ProjectSAM libraries have this function (poly-articulations).


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## zacnelson (Jun 23, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> ProjectSAM libraries have this function (poly-articulations).


Ah, thanks! Actually despite the ludicrous amount of libraries I've purchased over the years, strangely I've never bought a ProjectSam product! They do sound great though. Anyway this SonuScore library seems wonderful, I don't want to divert the discussion away from that...


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## mac (Jun 23, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> (And then, if it's true legato, how can it be contained in just 7 gigabytes?)



Because they've probably trimmed their samples correctly without masses of empty silence at the end


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## zolhof (Jun 23, 2017)

I guess we've got so used to those behemoth libraries that something decent sounding with true legato under 7gb feels like fiction. I'm all in for good sounding and ssd friendly libraries.

Congratulations on the release! I hope we can midi assign the bejesus out of the Engine tab, it would be really nice to have on the fly control over the arpeggiator and envelope.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 23, 2017)

I hate to say it, but for what I am getting hired to write, this might be all I would ever need.


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## amorphosynthesis (Jun 23, 2017)

what?no legato tuba and contrabassoon???I'll pass...he he he 
anyway! sounds good but wonder if all the ideas that you can come up can be automaticaly transcribed to eg midi or pdf for use lets say to a real orchestra !!!


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## mac (Jun 23, 2017)

amorphosynthesis said:


> what?no legato tuba and contrabassoon???I'll pass...he he he
> anyway! sounds good but wonder if all the ideas that you can come up can be automaticaly transcribed to eg midi or pdf for use lets say to a real orchestra !!!



I just logged on to ask the exact same thing. I get that this is probably best suited to quick sketching, so being able to drag and drop the midi out would be perfect. So...?


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 23, 2017)

my biggest concern here is if things lock to tempo or if you have to move your phrases a bit early, that would make things not quite so easy. In general love what I am hearing but have trepidation from other arpeggiated orch things (I realize this is a new animal).


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## amorphosynthesis (Jun 23, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> my biggest concern here is if things lock to tempo or if you have to move your phrases a bit early, that would make things not quite so easy. In general love what I am hearing but have trepidation from other arpeggiated orch things (I realize this is a new animal).


I don't think these are pre-recorded phrases,correct me if I am wrong,so why would there be a delay?


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 23, 2017)

amorphosynthesis said:


> I don't think these are pre-recorded phrases,correct me if I am wrong,so why would there be a delay?



with synths usually not a delay but because of attacks in orchestra there may be a few milliseconds...there might not be but that could be an issue, just want to make sure it's not.


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## X-Bassist (Jun 23, 2017)

amorphosynthesis said:


> I don't think these are pre-recorded phrases,correct me if I am wrong,so why would there be a delay?



There would also be legato delay like any other library with true legato.


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## Quasar (Jun 23, 2017)

Wow, hate to get swayed by hype, but this looks like it could be a best of both worlds combo between the phrase-based libraries and the traditional single note as played libraries, and after watching the walkthrough I am extremely impressed.


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## sostenuto (Jun 23, 2017)

Crazy to now be taunted by _totally different_, 'immediate' choices. Almost priced to the penny ..... NI- Symphony Series (Full) /// and now The Orchestra. Vastly different tools, but still not an easy decision with only ONE in budget.
Next few days of posts will be telling ... won't they ???


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## Puzzlefactory (Jun 23, 2017)

mac said:


> I just logged on to ask the exact same thing. I get that this is probably best suited to quick sketching, so being able to drag and drop the midi out would be perfect. So...?



Yeah, being able to drag and drop the midi would be great. Is that an option @SONUSCORE?


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## SONUSCORE (Jun 23, 2017)

Thank you all for your kind words!
To get to the questions mentioned here:



amorphosynthesis said:


> sounds good but wonder if all the ideas that you can come up can be automaticaly transcribed to eg midi or pdf for use lets say to a real orchestra !!!


The engine uses multiple optimised arpeggiators instead of midi files, so no, it is currently not possible to export MIDI files from the engine. Everything is generated the moment you press the keys, and the very nature of arpeggiators makes a direct transfer to MIDI-Files quite complex.
However we have received this suggestion a few times already in this short time, so we might look into the possibilities on this issue. We can't make any promises at this point though.



Craig Sharmat said:


> my biggest concern here is if things lock to tempo or if you have to move your phrases a bit early, that would make things not quite so easy.


We have edited all samples very tightly to avoid just that. The generated phrases should sync up fine with your host tempo.


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## jonathanparham (Jun 23, 2017)

SONUSCORE said:


> Everything is generated the moment you press the keys, and the very nature of arpeggiators makes a direct transfer to MIDI-Files quite complex.
> However we have received this suggestion a few times already in this short time, so we might look into the possibilities on this issue. We can't make any promises at this point though.


plus one for this feature


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## baileysounds (Jun 23, 2017)

The hype seems fairly justified to me, looks and sounds like an impressive writing/time saving library.

The lack of MIDI export/drag from the arpeggiator is the only thing stopping me from buying right now to be honest, will keep an eye out for updates along the line


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## MarcusD (Jun 23, 2017)

GIMMI GIMMI GIMMI!!






This lib looks / sounds very good..


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## Soundhound (Jun 23, 2017)

Since this is is Kontakt 5.6.8 I need to ask: how are people doing with 5.6.8 in OS X? Working ok? Bugs ironed out?


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## aelwyn (Jun 23, 2017)

This is a real test of my own self control.


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## JanR (Jun 23, 2017)

Use this in tandem with NI Thrill and you can score a whole movie in one day!!! :D


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## bigcat1969 (Jun 23, 2017)

Isn't the Colors part a lot like Rhapsody Orchestral Colors by ISW?


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## reutunes (Jun 23, 2017)

I've been following this thread with interest. The Samplecast have the first review out now:


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## novaburst (Jun 23, 2017)

Crazy good demos, the library to have, in the right hands I guess you will get stupendous mock ups, 

It is as I have read inovation,


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## jonathanparham (Jun 23, 2017)

reutunes said:


> I've been following this thread with interest. The Samplecast have the first review out now


That was fast! thanks


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## sostenuto (Jun 23, 2017)

reutunes said:


> I've been following this thread with interest. The Samplecast have the first review out now:




What about MW / CC _ > ~~ 12:30 ??? Concerns?


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## ysnyvz (Jun 23, 2017)

reutunes said:


> The Samplecast have the first review out now


I don't have the library but man your review is really bad. You didn't even touch individual patches. It has individual sections and true legatos which is a rare thing for all in one type orchestral libraries, yet you didn't even mention. Every library has a distinctive sound. Having multiple mic positions is to make sound more or less roomy. They wanted to make a small and simple library and you criticise their main selling point. It's an orchestral library, where is your discussion of things like dynamic layers, round robins, crossfade and consistency etc.? Also Maximo is a phrase-based, Symphobias are ensemble-based libraries, not sure why you needed to compare them.
I'm subscriber to your channel and this is my review of your "review".


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## Ruffian Price (Jun 23, 2017)

Even without drag & drop, it's possible to record MIDI output from Kontakt's arpeggiators in your DAW, as long as this option is enabled:


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## ctsai89 (Jun 23, 2017)

judging from the fact taht this library gives true legato patches, I think this can be very versatile and in fact I would compare it to metropolis ark 1. The main difference being this library has the pattern options if you don't want to make your own, plus it's a lot less resource heavy, 7 gigs vs 69 gigs? I THINK... (because it's my opinion and I don't want anyone to think I'm speaking an opinion like it's a fact) This library is a win win


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## MaxOctane (Jun 23, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> I THINK... (because it's my opinion and I don't want anyone to think I'm speaking an opinion like it's a fact) This library is a win win



I get that reference!


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## ctsai89 (Jun 23, 2017)

Maybe I shouldn't have gotten a Mac pro a year ago but instead a laptop if this library was released before I purchased the mac pro. Oh wellz it's still good for my Spitfire classical mockups funs.


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## jtnyc (Jun 23, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> I don't have the library but man your review is really bad. You didn't even touch individual patches. It has individual sections and true legatos which is a rare thing for all in one type orchestral libraries, yet you didn't even mention. Every library has a distinctive sound. Having multiple mic positions is to make sound more or less roomy. They wanted to make a small and simple library and you criticise their main selling point. It's an orchestral library, where is your discussion of things like dynamic layers, round robins, crossfade and consistency etc.? Also Maximo is a phrase-based, Symphobias are ensemble-based libraries, not sure why you needed to compare them.
> I'm subscriber to your channel and this is my review of your "review".



Actually he did "touch" the individual articulations at 6:05, but touch is all he did, meaning he didn't play any music, he just pawed out a few notes for each articulation. This is becoming fairly common in a lot of these homemade (not developer) reviews. I personally get very little from them and usually skip them, but was curious to see this library. From watching this review, I have no idea how the legato preforms or how the other articulations really work in practice. People need to play musical passages that move around in range, speed and velocity in order to properly demonstrate a library. To me this is the most important aspect of a review.

As for the arp stuff... that stuff always sounds stiff and sampled to me. As to pre-recorded phrases, I have no interest in them. It's like pasting together a collage of somebody else's drawings instead of painting a picture. I know they can be useful here and there, but in general these kind of products just feel cheap and unworkable to me. So while this review didn't go deep with the playable patches, it showed me enough of the other stuff to know it's not for me.


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## MillsMixx (Jun 23, 2017)

If you guys know Reuben's reviews from his actual Samplecast it's more about just touching on the reviews 'briefly' rather than a big full walk though. Those usually come later from either the developers or users having a play with 1 library in mind. But of course the Samplecast is more of a showcase for what's the latest happening with ALL the latest products. So yeah, I wasn't expecting a full detailed one. We still have a lot to learn about this new library.


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## reutunes (Jun 23, 2017)

MillsMixx said:


> If you guys know Reuben's reviews from his actual Samplecast it's more about just touching on the reviews 'briefly' rather than a big full walk though. Those usually come later from either the developers or users having a play with 1 library in mind. But of course the Samplecast is more of a showcase for what's the latest happening with ALL the latest products. So yeah, I wasn't expecting a full detailed one. We still have a lot to learn about this new library.



That's pretty much my take, yes. As discussed on a thread a few weeks ago I prefer my reviews to be reviews, not exhaustive walkthroughs. The Samplecast reviews are my personal opinions on a library and how it performs and sounds, especially compared to what else is on the market.



jtnyc said:


> People need to play musical passages that move around in range, speed and velocity in order to properly demonstrate a library. To me this is the most important aspect of a review.



That's kind of the point - I'm not demonstrating the library, I'm reviewing it. I did have a good play through all the instruments and articulations. My take on the legatos is that all the instruments are very "tight" in terms of the legato transitions and there's not a huge amount of difference between the sound of the sustains and the legatos as the transitions are short and light. Hope that helps.


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## ysnyvz (Jun 23, 2017)

reutunes said:


> That's kind of the point - I'm not demonstrating the library, I'm reviewing it.


Then why bother making a video about it? Just write you like/dislike it on your website and you're done. You can save time at least.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 23, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> Then why bother making a video about it? Just write you like/dislike it on your website and you're done. You can save time at least.



I personally like Reuben's reviews, they are somewhat informative, to the point and I trust his judgement. I can garner enough info from them to aid in my buying choices.


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## reutunes (Jun 23, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> Then why bother making a video about it? Just write you like/dislike it on your website and you're done. You can save time at least.



Because that would help nobody... no library is 100% useless and no library is 100% awesome. I try to give an idea of who might find libraries useful and in what context. I also am aware that all of us have very different budgets so value for money is very subjective. Like any product, I urge you to gather opinions from many sources before making a purchasing decision - The Samplecast is just one of those sources.


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## ysnyvz (Jun 23, 2017)

reutunes said:


> Because that would help nobody...


And that's exactly what I think about your review of The Orchestra so it wouldn't make a difference. A review supposed to have some details and something extra that you don't get from developer's website.
"Here is a huge 100 gb library. Developers said this and that etc. I like this and dislike that etc. Ok we have done 30 seconds video review." Here is my review style and developers should send me their libs. That's it?


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## reutunes (Jun 23, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> And that's exactly what I think about your review of The Orchestra so it wouldn't make a difference. A review supposed to have some details and something extra that you don't get from developer's website.
> "Here is a huge 100 gb library. Developers said this and that etc. I like this and dislike that etc. Ok we have done 30 seconds video review." Here is my review style and developers should send me their libs. That's it?


I love this forum


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## zolhof (Jun 23, 2017)

I like Reuben's reviews too, they are quick overviews of the instrument. Having said that, I've just watched the Samplecast and gotta say I felt a bit underwhelmed after all the hype. 

88 single instruments patches, including a choir and legato, under 7gb: NICE. Fantastic GUI, I almost forgot it's a Kontakt library. The colors idea (something straight out of Symphobia) is a cool feature for those who need great sounding ensembles fast. Nice time saver, but again, Symphobia already does it and does it well. 

I wasn't impressed with the rhythmic section, any _arpeggerator_ hi JunkieXL can pull those patterns off. And just wait until the "Animated Orchestra" is everywhere. Even as an inspiration tool, 30 patches will get old quick. 

Overall, I think the big selling point is how well the whole thing blends together, straight out of the box. No shenanigans, just great sounds and quick ideas ready to save your ass. If I didn't own other similar libraries, it would be a nice addition. And it's not like I don't have the Karma engine to draw inspiration from - or centuries of amazing music to rip off. :D


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## gjelul (Jun 23, 2017)

Samplecast is great as a source to (new) products - I've discovered many 'unknown' developers through their epsidoes. As for reviews, no single source would do it - we're lucky that there is multiple sources online.


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## pfmusic (Jun 23, 2017)

reutunes said:


> I love this forum



Good review Reuben - just enough info to judge whether I liked this library or not. Glad I didn't have to wade through an hour long borefest. Keep up the good work - I like Samplecast!


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## NoamL (Jun 23, 2017)

So these are arps not pre-rec'd loops like eg Action Strings?


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## Paul Owen (Jun 23, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> And that's exactly what I think about your review of The Orchestra so it wouldn't make a difference. A review supposed to have some details and something extra that you don't get from developer's website.
> "Here is a huge 100 gb library. Developers said this and that etc. I like this and dislike that etc. Ok we have done 30 seconds video review." Here is my review style and developers should send me their libs. That's it?


Can't wait to see your amazing review. Post a link when you're ready.


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## ysnyvz (Jun 23, 2017)

Paul Owen said:


> Can't wait to see your amazing review. Post a link when you're ready.


If you think that's amazing, you should watch Reuben's review.


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## Quasar (Jun 23, 2017)

gjelul said:


> Samplecast is great as a source to (new) products - I've discovered many 'unknown' developers through their epsidoes. As for reviews, no single source would do it - we're lucky that there is multiple sources online.



This. There are video newscasts, teasers, promos, walkthoughs, Daniel James style explorations, and reviews. They all have their place.

Reuben does an excellent job IMHO with both Samplecast (which is squarely in the news category) and with the more extensive overviews I've seen. I try to never miss a Samplecast episode.

And this "Big Review" did answer a few questions I had, such as why the library is relatively small for all that it contains, and also corroborated my guess that this would be a "good" orchestral library with some amazing and innovative workflow features. But to expect the mic options and sonic depth of all 5 (6, actually) Albions rolled into one single 6.7GB library is absurdly unrealistic. The fact that it has phrase-based-like capability without being bound to prefabbed recorded patterns is still hugely compelling to me, balanced against the 460 (US dollar) reasons not to be compelled.


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## Paul Owen (Jun 23, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> If you think that's amazing, you should watch Reuben's review.


I think my humour might have bypassed you. For this I apologise, let me rephrase. Homework for tonight: 1. Make a review of The Orchestra (in depth of course)
2. Post the link. We (the beautiful forum people) can then critique you. I can tell you've got a review waiting for us haven't you? Come on, don't be shy! Bestow upon us this amazing review that you wish Reuben had made and then you can sit on your review throne and bask in your glory. Until then why not be a little helpful with your comments yeah? Build bridges, don't burn 'em. 
P.s Reuben if you're reading, I like your vids and find the honesty and (just enough) detail refreshing. Cheers team, out.


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## Syneast (Jun 23, 2017)

So, is this the first affordable full orchestral library with separate sections and legato for Kontakt? If so, why aren't more people excited about this fact?


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 23, 2017)

zolhof said:


> I like Reuben's reviews too, they are quick overviews of the instrument. Having said that, I've just watched the Samplecast and gotta say I felt a bit underwhelmed after all the hype.
> 
> 88 single instruments patches, including a choir and legato, under 7gb: NICE. Fantastic GUI, I almost forgot it's a Kontakt library. The colors idea (something straight out of Symphobia) is a cool feature for those who need great sounding ensembles fast. Nice time saver, but again, Symphobia already does it and does it well.
> 
> ...



I think a lot of people are missing a major point with this library, yes some people will use the 30 patches or what ever it is you mentioned but those who want to dig deeper and change every parameter, can make their own patches alter the pre-existing ones etc...it is all malleable.


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## ysnyvz (Jun 23, 2017)

Paul Owen said:


> I think my humour might have bypassed you.


It's funny that you think you have humour.


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## Paul Owen (Jun 23, 2017)

ysnyvz said:


> It's funny that you think you have humour.



Mum? Is that you?


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## chillbot (Jun 23, 2017)

SONUSCORE said:


> To get to the questions mentioned here:


Pretty cool. Enjoying it. Because I'm too lazy to RTFM... do you suppose there's anyway to universally disable the reverb or is it automatically turned on in every preset and patch? I love the sound dry... it's a drag to have to turn off the reverb every time you switch patches?


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## zolhof (Jun 23, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I think a lot of people are missing a major point with this library, yes some people will use the 30 patches or what ever it is you mentioned but those who want to dig deeper and change every parameter, can make their own patches alter the pre-existing ones etc...it is all malleable.



3 arpeggiators and 2 envelopes with basic controls. Yeah it's malleable and you can stack multiple instances of the ensemble engine, but still you are limited to what the engine can do. Anyway, I don't want to put anyone off, I think it's a nice tool and there's definitely a market for it!


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## ysnyvz (Jun 23, 2017)

Paul Owen said:


> Mum? Is that you?


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## ctsai89 (Jun 23, 2017)

I'm actually very impresssed with this library (and I'm a purist, hate phrases). Almost too good to be true.

The only things I didn't like the library was:
-Woodwinds are a bit "synthy" but I like them
-cellos range not high enough
-violin 1 range almost not high enough
-trombone range not high enough (but acceptable)
-Horns just need half a step higher range, would've been nice.
-A bit more vibrato for the strings would've been nice
-Reverb should've never been on by default.


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## Xaviez (Jun 23, 2017)

Fixing the range of the instruments doesn't sound like an easily patchable fix to me, am I wrong? I mean, wouldn't that require more samples?


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## ctsai89 (Jun 23, 2017)

Xaviez said:


> Fixing the range of the instruments doesn't sound like an easily patchable fix to me, am I wrong? I mean, wouldn't that require more samples?



Of course unless they really wanted to. But I doubt for "epic", those few notes extra for the range isn't really going to be needed". I was only speaking as a purist since I love to pretend that an orchestra library could do everything, which would've been nice with the few notes added for the range but that's me wishful thinking lol


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## novaburst (Jun 23, 2017)

So what's the secret, a 150 ready to play ensemble, from what I hear it sounds good, Strings, percussion, brass, choir,
but only 7 gig /10 gig uncompressed full size sample library.

So what have they done, I just been checking out spit fires tool kit and yes 150 gig of sampling going on there.

I have string library's @ 56 gig and brass library's @ 40 gig.

So how did they pull this one off with such a small sample foot print, and getting it to sound ok too.


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## Xaviez (Jun 23, 2017)

novaburst said:


> So what's the secret, a 150 ready to play ensemble, from what I hear it sounds good, Strings, percussion, brass, choir,
> but only 7 gig /10 gig uncompressed full size sample library.
> 
> So what have they done, I just been checking out spit fires tool kit and yes 150 gig of sampling going on there.
> ...


Secret sauce.
(Snugly trimmed samples, only one mic position, few velocity layers, and who knows, maybe some compression?)


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## Steve Martin (Jun 24, 2017)

SONUSCORE said:


> Thank you all for your kind words!
> To get to the questions mentioned here:
> 
> 
> ...


I purchased "Vivace" a while back, and they did provided a pdf of the orchestral performances used in their software as an option which I took advantage of by buying the pdf. I loved the sound of the Animated Orchestral "Icy Lake" preset. However, If you were to try and transcribe what you were doing here, to make an actual orchestral score to present to an orchestra, is it possible to do this? I saw that Ruffian Price said that you can export the midi of an arpeggio pattern created by the library, but I was wondering how you would go about scoring something that you created and giving it to an orchestra to play. Thanks kindly if you can answer my query here.

Steve.


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## Ruffian Price (Jun 24, 2017)

novaburst said:


> So what's the secret, a 150 ready to play ensemble, from what I hear it sounds good, Strings, percussion, brass, choir,
> but only 7 gig /10 gig uncompressed full size sample library.


This used to be the norm! Then, I guess, two things happened: 1) DVD capacity stopped being a limiting factor as more people chose digital delivery, 2) library size became a selling point (think about it, why would you even advertise "uncompressed size"? It doesn't matter to the user in the slightest). The single mic position makes the most difference here, consider the Hollywood Orchestra Gold vs Diamond (although that's also 16-bit vs 24-bit), that's a six-fold space requirement increase.


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## procreative (Jun 24, 2017)

Those wishing for midi drag and drop, all the Sonokinetic stuff has it. But in practice its not that straightforward to replicate the phrasing.

Sure you get all the right notes, but with some titles like Maximo the phrases are using a variety of articulations for example it might be Staccato, Marcato, Portato and maybe some notes connected.

You can get close, but often there is just that "something" missing.

Can anyone confirm if you can change any of the articulations used in the "Colours" as listening to Reuben's overview some sound better than others?


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## reutunes (Jun 24, 2017)

procreative said:


> Those wishing for midi drag and drop, all the Sonokinetic stuff has it. But in practice its not that straightforward to replicate the phrasing.
> 
> Sure you get all the right notes, but with some titles like Maximo the phrases are using a variety of articulations for example it might be Staccato, Marcato, Portato and maybe some notes connected.
> 
> ...



yes - you can put any instrument / articulation into any of the 5 slots in The_Orchestra.nki and then adjust the arps and envelopes to suit your performance. The presets are good but they're just a jumping off point.


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## mac (Jun 24, 2017)

procreative said:


> Those wishing for midi drag and drop, all the Sonokinetic stuff has it. But in practice its not that straightforward to replicate the phrasing.
> 
> Sure you get all the right notes, but with some titles like Maximo the phrases are using a variety of articulations for example it might be Staccato, Marcato, Portato and maybe some notes connected.
> 
> ...



Ja, but as these aren't real phrases compared to something like Maximo, I'm thinking they'd be better suited to simple midi drag and drop. This also leads me to wonder then how good this libraries arps sound in that case, to real phrases. Anyone had chance to compare to something phrase based from Sonokinetic?


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## Vastman (Jun 24, 2017)

if you listen to all of the posted soundclouds, their engine seems pretty good... and much easier to use than the Ostinatum generator Spitfire has. I've always had a love/hate with that dinky little tool...

As I don't do traditional composing, this'll be fun to layer creatively into traditional songs or build a song around some vamping... Well executed and it's nice that these kinda tools (ie, Novo) are being created...


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## procreative (Jun 24, 2017)

I've listened over and over to Reubens playthrough of the colours and some do sound really good, some to me seem to be using the wrong articulations which is why I asked.

Personally I am most interested in the the Rhythms, Colours and the Symphobia like combos for quick gratification.

Not really interested in the split out instruments.


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## ghandizilla (Jun 24, 2017)

Having carefuly watched the walkthrough and the samplecast review, I really love the engine. It's not so much the "time saver" thing, every good DAW has the envelope and arpeggiator capabilities. I was skeptical for this reason. It's more about how inspiring they seem. I can imagine myself being "stuck", loading two or three engine instances, playing five minutes with them, and get loaded on ideas. I am also really impressed by the size of the library - unbelievable at first, but explainable. The con : I am not a big fan of the individual instruments. It's not the roughness (I like rough tones), it's really a lack of agility and expressivity. I can't imagine them make it to a final track. Hence my conclusion: it seems like the best sketching/inspiration tool I've ever seen, and it's really cheap. It could also be a great first library - though something like Bernard Herrmann would be more fitting as a learning tool, a good compromise between access to a minimum of details and not-being-overwhelmed and not becoming-lazy. The Orchestra would be for me something like a quick starter before reinputing the MIDI data to deeper sampled libraries. Hence the importance of exporting the MIDI data. Did someone try with the Orchestra @RuffianPrice workaround with Kontakt's arpeggiators?


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## procreative (Jun 24, 2017)

Ruffian Price said:


> Even without drag & drop, it's possible to record MIDI output from Kontakt's arpeggiators in your DAW, as long as this option is enabled:



Unfortunately for us Logic users, this will not work as until they update it to support Midi output from plugins (a feature in the AU spec for ages but not yet implemented), the only method to do this involves the IAC and a whole lot of grief.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 24, 2017)

At one point I was considering this library over the BHT from Spitfire. When I started reading about how it seems best for sketching I completely dumped the idea. I have all I need for sketching with the Albions, and I LOVE them for that. They never get old for me.

I realize this might be more of a full orchestra sketching tool, which of course is different from the Albions, but templates solve that quite easily for me.

So, all respect for the developers, The Orchestra looks like a fine sketching tool...but now I'm especially glad I went with the BHT. Just my opinion. I could be wrong on any of these points.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 24, 2017)

I don't care about the built in reverbs interfering with blending as I always turn them off and then re-save the patches in every library. That said, after watching the video review, I am less interested.


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## camelot (Jun 24, 2017)

Might be really handy for any composing-to-go system as it is so low on system requirements. And from my impression it is much more flexible than it seems. These available presets are presets and therefore, starting points from where to go. 

To have some comparison, 7GB is about the footprint of the orchestral part of the Kontakt Factory Library and the sound here is quite good.
The quality of the sounds and the available diversity in available phrases fit perfectly to a modern action movie score and is sufficient enough for most thriller/detective/action/adventure tv-shows.


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## Syneast (Jun 24, 2017)

Wish there was a proper walkthrough playing through all the separate instruments and articulations, as well as some with the reverb turned off. I find it difficult to judge things like legato, dynamic crossfades and overall sound. In a mix (like the demos or the multis) anything can sound great. I am more interested in hearing some exposed stuff.


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 24, 2017)

Does anyone know if Sonuscore allow you to resell the library if you don't like it ?

I think I would need to have it under my hands for a bit before I knew if it were for me - and I can't make a £ 350 mistake.

There have been about three or four libraries I would have purchased this year if they had allowed resale. Oddly I have never re-sold a library I have purchased yet - but I will no longer buy libraries from companies who don't allow resale. (In a way it's good as it has saved me a lot of money.)


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## jjmmuir (Jun 24, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> Does anyone know if Sonuscore allow you to resell the library if you don't like it ?
> 
> I think I would need to have it under my hands for a bit before I knew if it were for me - and I can't make a £ 350 mistake.
> 
> There have been about three or four libraries I would have purchased this year if they had allowed resale. Oddly I have never re-sold a library I have purchased yet - but I will no longer buy libraries from companies who don't allow resale. (In a way it's good as it has saved me a lot of money.)



Maybe no reselling.... this from their terms:
*LIMITATIONS:*

This license expressly forbids any unauthorized inclusion of the CONTENT in any library (e.g. sample instrument, sound effects library, etc.) online or offline without our express written consent.

The *MEDIA LICENSE* also forbids any re-distribution method of the CONTENT, through any means, including but not limited to, re-selling, trading, sharing, resampling, mixing, processing, isolating, or embedding into software or hardware of any kind, for the purpose of re-recording or reproduction as part of any free or commercial library of musical and/or sound effect samples and/or articulations, or any form of musical sample or sound effect sample playback system or device.


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 24, 2017)

Thanks for that - I read the EULA on the site but I must have missed that bit.

But it has saved me £ 349.00 so it's another result !


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## rrichard63 (Jun 24, 2017)

jjmmuir said:


> ... The *MEDIA LICENSE* also forbids any re-distribution method of the CONTENT, through any means, including but not limited to, re-selling ... for the purpose of re-recording or reproduction as part of any free or commercial library of musical and/or sound effect samples and/or articulations, or any form of musical sample or sound effect sample playback system or device. ...


I thinks this needs clarification from the developer. Literally (the way I think a lawyer would read it) it prohibits reselling the *sounds* "for the purpose of re-recording or reproduction". It does not prohibit reselling the *license*. But, to coin a phrase, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.


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## sostenuto (Jun 24, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Sorry, I can't help but recommend the Albions for making sketching often a joy. I don't care what anyone says, I think those ensembles sound fine, they sure beat the heck out of Garritan lol (half-joking, I still use GPO on projects).
> 
> It's just so nice to "not think" about things when you're inspired.
> 
> And no I haven't received anything free from Spitfire lol!



Oops! Got across same issue on two Threads. Appreciate your very specific comments re. Albion(s) as these newer tools can be added later. THX!


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## Quasar (Jun 24, 2017)

The €399 is not an intro price? So if we wait it won't be more expensive down the road?

Also, I suffer from fivesixeightophobia, a known medical/psychiatric condition defined as "the fear of installing Kontakt v5.6.8 on one's computer", so there's that to consider, too.


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 24, 2017)

On the Mac, I have developed a method of defending myself from 'fivesixeightophobia'. I installed 5.6.8, but then copied a prior version over from my laptop into the same folder. Now I can just click on whichever I want......


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 24, 2017)

rrichard63 said:


> I thinks this needs clarification from the developer. Literally (the way I think a lawyer would read it) it prohibits reselling the *sounds* "for the purpose of re-recording or reproduction". It does not prohibit reselling the *license*. But, to coin a phrase, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.



I've just dropped an email to Sonuscore asking them to clarify.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 24, 2017)

I am not convinced it won't mix with other libs, and the tools are still quite interesting to me. String range for me is an issue but not a deal breaker. if it inspires then it is worth it.


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## muziksculp (Jun 24, 2017)

Still undecided about this library, an In-Depth detailed walk through/Review will surely be helpful to better evaluate it.


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## jtnyc (Jun 24, 2017)

reutunes said:


> That's pretty much my take, yes. As discussed on a thread a few weeks ago I prefer my reviews to be reviews, not exhaustive walkthroughs. The Samplecast reviews are my personal opinions on a library and how it performs and sounds, especially compared to what else is on the market.



Ok, I hear you there, but you could play more than 4 or 5 notes when going through the articulations. A musical passage that one might use that articulation for, also with some dynamics and range. That wouldn't make it an exhaustive walkthrough, but a much more telling review.


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## novaburst (Jun 24, 2017)

Xaviez said:


> only one mic position, few velocity layers,





Ruffian Price said:


> The single mic position makes the most difference here



Yes I think this is it, I was beginning to wonder, but this makes a lot of sense, possible not many Dynamic layers too.


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## Quasar (Jun 24, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> On the Mac, I have developed a method of defending myself from 'fivesixeightophobia'. I installed 5.6.8, but then copied a prior version over from my laptop into the same folder. Now I can just click on whichever I want......



I did that when they took the color keys away in 5.6, and after a bit of fuss got dual Kontakts working fine. But I'd rather just keep one stable version (5.6.6 is flawless for me) until it becomes absolutely necessary.

And yeah, the single mic position would be the biggest single factor in the small size I would think. I'll be interested in learning how much success people have blending this with baked libraries, especially Albions.


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## MillsMixx (Jun 24, 2017)

Quasar said:


> I'll be interested in learning how much success people have blending this with baked libraries, especially Albions.



Actually yes. I've been taking it for a test drive and mixing it with other libraries and honestly from my own experience it seems to blend very well with many other sounds including Albion One and Symphony Series Essentials. Sometimes I'll only use a few pieces rather than a_ full blown 5 slot patch_ or I'll solo a track in the main engine .nki.

With the right levels, etc...it works and sounds great. Far far this has been the best and most usable purchase I've made all year. No regrets. None at all.



Quasar said:


> The €399 is not an intro price? So if we wait it won't be more expensive down the road?



I see that this is selling for £290.83 on Kontakt Hub. According to my pound to dollar calculator for today that's 372.18 US dollar. Unless I'm overlooking something at checkout it'll save you an extra 26 dollars or so.


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## muziksculp (Jun 24, 2017)

Review :


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## JanR (Jun 24, 2017)




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## procreative (Jun 24, 2017)

MillsMixx said:


> I see that this is selling for £290.83 on Kontakt Hub.



Thats the price without tax, not sure what happens if you are outside the UK but its the same price Time & Space are selling it for.

Still not sure about this library. The main missing functionality I see is the ability to switch rhythms/colours on the fly. Being stuck with one rhythm at a time means either loading up loads of instances or living with it.

Seems to me as the Arps and Envelopes are happening in real time, surely it would have been possible to have slots for a set of say 5-10 like they built for Action Strings and Emotive Strings (which uses sampled phrases so probably much more complex to create)?

The concept is good, but its not even as flexible as say Capriccio which has 4 keyswitchable slots.


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## Xaviez (Jun 24, 2017)

Watched the review and purchased, now comes the fun part, waiting for it to download. :D


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## muziksculp (Jun 24, 2017)

Would be very helpful to watch a walkthrough of making a complete track using this library, to get a better feel of how to use the various patches/multis , the engine in a project, the workflow/logic of using this library, when trying to make a fast demo track.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 24, 2017)

muziksculp said:


> Would be very helpful to watch a walkthrough of making a complete track using this library, to get a better feel of how to use the various patches/multis , the engine in a project, the workflow/logic of using this library, when trying to make a fast demo track.


That's a good request, we have seen a pattern and had it expanded but how do you switch patterns or is it a new instance?


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## procreative (Jun 24, 2017)

There is nothing in the manual to suggest there is a way to switch patterns by keyswitch. Most of those demos must have been done using multiple instances. While its light enough on memory to do so, its hardly as instant and easy to switch between patterns with separate instances.


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## sostenuto (Jun 24, 2017)

procreative said:


> Thats the price without tax, not sure what happens if you are outside the UK but its the same price Time & Space are selling it for.
> 
> Still not sure about this library. The main missing functionality I see is the ability to switch rhythms/colours on the fly. Being stuck with one rhythm at a time means either loading up loads of instances or living with it.
> 
> ...



Ha! ... and lots of instances works against the small footprint ... does it not ??


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 24, 2017)

I think if the samples are loaded it will be a larger memory footprint but if it is DFD it is drawing from the same pool so i doubt it's a huge hit...might be mistaken but I think that's how it works.


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## sostenuto (Jun 24, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> I think if the samples are loaded it will be a larger memory footprint but if it is DFD it is drawing from the same pool so i doubt it's a huge hit...might be mistaken but I think that's how it works.



Waaay ignorant here, but seems like some questionable 'practice(s)' ... tryin to emphasize small footprint ??

whataIkno ..  Seems like this coulda been a bit larger and still way clear of SA 150GB .... no ??

Sure makes me watch a bit to see how the capable dudes/dudesses here sort this over next several days.


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## muziksculp (Jun 24, 2017)

I think the fact that 'The Orchestra' offers all sections of the orchestra as multi-articulation single patches, just like other Orch. Libraries is very nice to have, so it does not have to be used via the engine functionality only, giving the user lots of flexibility, and options to use what is needed to produce a track. Although the emphasis is not on this, but rather on the Engine functionality, and how it makes layering various sections a cool feature. 

I wonder can I decide which articulation of a Section I load into one of the Engine's slots ? 

I was also thinking it would have been nice if the Engine offered a 'Velocity' range that one can decide to trigger a specific layer. I'm guessing that having quite a few Engine instances loaded for various sections of a track's orchestration needs would be one way to go about using this library, but I'm just guessing. 

Any feedback from those who already purchased it, and experimented with 'The Orchestra' would be very enlightening, and helpful.


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## Steve Martin (Jun 24, 2017)

A question for anyone who has this yet - can you compose in different time signatures such as 7/4 7/8 and 5/4 and 5/8?
I'm guessing you can, but it would be good to know exactly if this is available with this Library. Thanks


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## ctsai89 (Jun 24, 2017)

Steve Martin said:


> A question for anyone who has this yet - can you compose in different time signatures such as 7/4 7/8 and 5/4 and 5/8?
> I'm guessing you can, but it would be good to know exactly if this is available with this Library. Thanks



Yea there are few options in the rhythmic section 5/4 and 5/8. If you need 7/4 then you do 2x speed to 7/8. But serioulsy if you need to compose lets say 13/8, all the staccato patches are separated for you to use without any rhythm of phrases.


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## Steve Martin (Jun 24, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> Yea there are few options in the rhythmic section 5/4 and 5/8. If you need 7/4 then you do 2x speed to 7/8. But serioulsy if you need to compose lets say 13/8, all the staccato patches are separated for you to use without any rhythm of phrases.


Hi there, Thank you for that info. Much appreciated. Steve


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## markleake (Jun 24, 2017)

Steve Martin said:


> Hi there, Thank you for that info. Much appreciated. Steve


I think also if you watch through Don's walkthough (on previous page), you can see all the different time signature options. The walkthrough answered a lot of questions I had, so is worth spending the time to watch, even though it is 50 mins.


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## Steve Martin (Jun 24, 2017)

markleake said:


> I think also if you watch through Don's walkthough (on previous page), you can see all the different time signature options. The walkthrough answered a lot of questions I had, so is worth spending the time to watch, even though it is 50 mins.


Hi Mark, yes, that's good advice. Thanks for that. I'll give it a watch then. Thanks, Steve


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## milamu (Jun 25, 2017)

For me the short articulations like staccatos sound static. Did anybody read or hear, if there are round robins?
Thanks


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## Daniel James (Jun 25, 2017)

Been playing with it a bit today. Man its gunna start off so many cues for me. For me its falling into the inspiration category, being able to set up cool rhythmic stuff with the arps and envelopes means I can block out a good sounding backbone in a few minutes just by changing the chords about a bit.

I do wish the arp had a step sequencer (kinda like the one we did in our Project series) where you can set which key of the notes you are holding ie 1-2-2-1-2-2-1-3 which would be bottom-middle-middle-bottom etc

The tone of the lib is pretty decent but for me I wish this was the library I had starting out. The innovation in this lib is def coming from the layering engine part, like I said it just drives inspiration. 

Def gunna be making my life easier, worth it.

-DJ


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## Puzzlefactory (Jun 25, 2017)

Daniel James said:


> Been playing with it a bit today. Man its gunna start off so many cues for me. For me its falling into the inspiration category, being able to set up cool rhythmic stuff with the arps and envelopes means I can block out a good sounding backbone in a few minutes just by changing the chords about a bit.
> 
> I do wish the arp had a step sequencer (kinda like the one we did in our Project series) where you can set which key of the notes you are holding ie 1-2-2-1-2-2-1-3 which would be bottom-middle-middle-bottom etc
> 
> ...



Any plans to do one of your epic walk through videos for it?

So those of us on the fence can see how it's used to create a whole track...


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## mac (Jun 25, 2017)

Daniel James said:


> Been playing with it a bit today. Man its gunna start off so many cues for me. For me its falling into the inspiration category, being able to set up cool rhythmic stuff with the arps and envelopes means I can block out a good sounding backbone in a few minutes just by changing the chords about a bit.
> 
> I do wish the arp had a step sequencer (kinda like the one we did in our Project series) where you can set which key of the notes you are holding ie 1-2-2-1-2-2-1-3 which would be bottom-middle-middle-bottom etc
> 
> The tone of the lib is pretty decent but for me I wish this was the library I had starting out. The innovation in this lib is def coming from the layering engine part, like I said it just drives inspiration.



Do you think you'll just use it as a starting point / inspiration, then re-do what you created using other libraries, or is it production ready so to speak?


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## Thorsten Meyer (Jun 25, 2017)

Orchestra is a very inspirational library


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## JPQ (Jun 25, 2017)

I liked sound color in this sounds to my ears warm.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2017)

i have to say this is the most fun and inspirational library i ever bought.
I spend hours now just doodling around, creating new rythms, new combis, and it never gets tiring on me. The sound quality is sometimes incredible, few times only good, but always a delight!

I don't know yet how to implement it in further tracks, but i am sure i will use it a lot, even as a starting point, or just layering it beneath.

Very good job done!

And what i really hope @SONUSCORE : Please extend further the possibilities of this great library and give us some more control types to play around. I think there were many good suggestions over the last days.

oh and one thing:
i find it a bit tricky to play, because sustain pedal is not working. Maybe there is something i have overseen. any suggestion would help


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## mac (Jun 25, 2017)

Oliver said:


> i have to say this is the most fun and inspirational library i ever bought.
> 
> I don't know yet how to implement it in further tracks, but i am sure i will use it a lot, even as a starting point, or just layering it beneath.



I've heard this a few times now and it's what's stopping me pulling the trigger. Is the instant gratification of hitting a chord and having a preset motif play going to wear off, and we go back to working as we always have?


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2017)

MHO:
just grab a basic orch rhythm from menu. Grab the modwheel and take a ride.
after that go on composing your melodies over that and you have a great sounding piece.
Will i do this now every day?
Nope, but... sometimes!

as i said, its very inspirational.
And if they clean out all the minor bugs, make some more improvements, it will be a treasure chest for many years to come! (which it is right now already  )

(i am not associated or paid by them  )


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## muk (Jun 25, 2017)

Another tool that turns you from a composer into a programmer. It could be good for underscore when you have to work quickly. But for musical inspiration I'd rather look somewhere else.


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2017)

well if i orchestrate manually i am also quite a "programmer" in a way ...
with "the orchestra" it's easier...
but i dont get everything, so i still have to put my creativity and all my musical knowledge in it.


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 25, 2017)

I'm getting the impression this is pure orchestral porn.....

Stop it now or you'll go deaf....


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## Puzzlefactory (Jun 25, 2017)

mac said:


> I've heard this a few times now and it's what's stopping me pulling the trigger. Is the instant gratification of hitting a chord and having a preset motif play going to wear off, and we go back to working as we always have?




Are those "preset motiffs" editable? That'll determine its longevity no?


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## jonathanparham (Jun 25, 2017)

Thorsten Meyer said:


> Orchestra is a very inspirational library


nice



Daniel James said:


> Been playing with it a bit today.


lol I was refreshing your youtube page to see if you had posted something yet. Sample Library Review did a 50 min review. Figured yours will be longer-in a good way lol


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## Oliver (Jun 25, 2017)

preset motifs all editable


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## Eric G (Jun 25, 2017)

I have bought The Orchestra and can only agree with Oliver here. It doesn't write a melody for you. It doesn't decide the harmony/chord progressions for you. It doesn't write the transitions, percussion accents. You still need to know what you are doing.

It does increase your productivity by allowing you to create complex arrangements quickly, which is the goal of mockups, demos. And it allows you to do it quickly and rather easily. Hence the limited patches, mike position and the baked sound.

As demonstrated by the demos, in the hands of an experienced composer and orchestrator, The Orchestra can turn out professional quality music.

The instant gratification is also pure fun and I am already modifying the presets for my own purposes.


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## mac (Jun 25, 2017)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Are those "preset motiffs" editable? That'll determine its longevity no?



Sure, but I'm guessing its just as fast (and more flexible), by the time you edit 5 different instruments using the arps and envelopes, you might as well have used your daws piano roll and whatever libraries you want. 

I haven't used it so I'm only going from what I've seen on walkthroughs. The presets look great, but how often am I going to want to stack brass with strings and have them play the same articulation choices / rhythm for any length of time? I don't know, it looks like it's pretty linear. I'd love to watch someone like DJ take a deeper look.


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## Puzzlefactory (Jun 25, 2017)

mac said:


> Sure, but I'm guessing its just as fast (and more flexible), by the time you edit 5 different instruments using the arps and envelopes, you might as well have used your daws piano roll and whatever libraries you want.
> 
> I haven't used it so I'm only going from what I've seen on walkthroughs. The presets look great, but how often am I going to want to stack brass with strings and have them play the same articulation choices / rhythm for any length of time? I don't know, it looks like it's pretty linear. I'd love to watch someone like DJ take a deeper look.



Yeah, I'm hoping for one of his 2 hour vids, picking it apart before going any further.


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## nanotk (Jun 25, 2017)

I have also bought The Orchestra and agree totally with Oliver and Eric G.
It is very good tool and very fun.
The most important point now is if #Sonuscore could implement the midi exportation from the plugs to be able to use it more as a sketching tool and be able to use the resulted midi output with other libs.


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## Thorsten Meyer (Jun 25, 2017)

I did stick two presets where I completely changed the second one for a test and it worked just great. The presets are an easy way to start. You can start with a preset in any direction and change the triggered emotion easily.

Beside the "Orchestra" Ensemble Engine there are also many single instruments available for all sections of the orchestra, including Strings (Violin 1, Violin 2, Violas, Celli, Basses) Woods (Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon, Contrabassoon), Brass (Horns, Trumpets, Trombones, and Tuba & Bass Trombone), Percussion(Timpani, Tubular Bells, Cymbals, Gran Cassa, Snare Drum, Tam Tam, Piatti, Drum Ensemble,Taikos), Harp, and male & female choir.

You can combine those instruments in the main Orchestra Ensemble Engine patch, use many Orchestra Ensemble Engine-patches in combination and add in single patches with specific articulations. Really great


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## mac (Jun 25, 2017)

Thorsten Meyer said:


> I did stick two presets where I completely changed the second one for a test and it worked just great. The presets are an easy way to start. You can start with a preset in any direction and change the triggered emotion easily.
> 
> Beside the "Orchestra" Ensemble Engine there are also many single instruments available for all sections of the orchestra, including Strings (Violin 1, Violin 2, Violas, Celli, Basses) Woods (Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon, Contrabassoon), Brass (Horns, Trumpets, Trombones, and Tuba & Bass Trombone), Percussion(Timpani, Tubular Bells, Cymbals, Gran Cassa, Snare Drum, Tam Tam, Piatti, Drum Ensemble,Taikos), Harp, and male & female choir.
> 
> You can combine those instruments in the main Orchestra Ensemble Engine patch, use many Orchestra Ensemble Engine-patches in combination and add in single patches with specific articulations. Really great



I'm thinking the vast majority of people would be purchasing this for the engine, rather than the standard articulations, kinda like Novo.

If @SONUSCORE would release a video of the engine features being used in 'real world' conditions, ie. melodic progression and structure, I would likely buy it in a heartbeat.


----------



## gtrwll (Jun 25, 2017)

How do the individual instruments compare to, say, Hollywood Orchestra? Just dropped out of Composer Cloud and I'm lacking in modern takes on a sampled orchestra, so if the individual instruments are at least decent compared to the competition, this would be a must-buy for me.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 25, 2017)

You may miss the lack of articulations, this is a bare bones library but with an advanced engine.


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## Soundhound (Jun 25, 2017)

Does this work? Can you run two versions on the same computer? And I'm wondering if they don't share the same System files, prefs etc. and wondering if that can cause problems?




mikeybabes said:


> On the Mac, I have developed a method of defending myself from 'fivesixeightophobia'. I installed 5.6.8, but then copied a prior version over from my laptop into the same folder. Now I can just click on whichever I want......


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## gtrwll (Jun 25, 2017)

Thanks! TBH I don't really use that many articulations in my writing (I'm quite a beginner in writing for the orchestra) so it's probably enough for my current needs and the typical projects I'm working on. Have to watch through the vids again and wait for a couple more reviews.


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## donbodin (Jun 25, 2017)

I spent about 50 minutes with it yesterday 

not affiliated with sonuscore just sharing


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## ctsai89 (Jun 25, 2017)

What I find the coolest in this library is the multi patches. Use that, build a chord progression, write a melody with a legato patch.


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## MillsMixx (Jun 25, 2017)

Instant wow factor. I can't stop feeling giddy about this new library. I spent the whole day playing around and trying it out mixed with other libraries. Much of the time I'll solo out a few 'slots' to scale it back just a bit so it's not too busy or _instrument heavy_ and it just sits well. With a little bit of piano roll midi adjusting I'm seeing that I don't really need programs like Action Strings or Emotive Strings anymore as this covers it. It's a very versatile library. I wish I would have had this a long time ago. It would have saved me a lot of money.


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## Daniel James (Jun 26, 2017)

I am still getting into the nitty gritty of it. Will probs live stream it this week, so far loving it though. Super inspiring, and really good to block out sections 

-DJ


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## Kony (Jun 26, 2017)

Daniel James said:


> Will probs live stream it this week


looking forward to this


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## Dirk Ehlert (Jun 26, 2017)

In case you're interested, I'll be hosting a live stream with it tonight at www.twitch.tv/dirk_ehlert at 8.30 pm UTC+2 (11.30 pm PST). Cheers Dirk


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## nicedevill (Jun 26, 2017)

Gonna watch closely for both Dirk and Daniel's streams. I'm really interested in this one!

P.S. @Daniel Can you stream at "neutral" time so both EU ans US viewers can enjoy your review/walkthrough/awesomness?

P.P.S. Time zones suck!


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## Michael Antrum (Jun 26, 2017)

Just got an email back from Sonuscore who confirmed that they do indeed allow resale of the library in case you don't get on with it. Top marks for customer friendliness.

(I've caved and bought it - looking forward to those streams and getting some time with it tonight.)


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## mac (Jun 26, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> Just got an email back from Sonuscore who confirmed that they do indeed allow resale of the library in case you don't get on with it. Top marks for customer friendliness.
> 
> (I've caved and bought it - looking forward to those streams and getting some time with it tonight.)



In that case, I'm going to go purchase it right now. Great move @SONUSCORE


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## Thorsten Meyer (Jun 26, 2017)

The Orchestra second short demo from today.


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## Oliver (Jun 26, 2017)

@mac and you wont regret it!

BTW i sent out a support email yesterday, and just 30 minutes later i got an answer!
Thats a real good support!
and it was sunday


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## ghandizilla (Jun 26, 2017)

Does someone have any clue about dynamic layers and round robins? It would also be nice to hear a whole multi without reverb. (My guess from the demos : 2 dynamic layers and two RRs.) (Imagine if you could relocate the samples of the Engine to samples from other developers, how great it would be.)


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## BlueLight675 (Jun 26, 2017)

de_signs said:


> In case you're interested, I'll be hosting a live stream with it tonight at www.twitch.tv/dirk_ehlert at 8.30 pm UTC+2 (11.30 pm PST). Cheers Dirk



I hope you record it and get it on YouTube, it's way too late for this parent to show up live. :D


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## rottoy (Jun 26, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> (Imagine if you could relocate the samples of the Engine to samples from other developers, how great it would be.)


This would be pretty easy to do if you have even a basic understanding of tinkering under the hood of Kontakt patches.


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## ghandizilla (Jun 26, 2017)

Yes but wouldn't it be illegal or cost me the license? Also : how would I add more round robins or dynamic layers while relocating? It would be really nice though.


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## mac (Jun 26, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> Yes but wouldn't it be illegal or cost me the license? Also : how would I add more round robins or dynamic layers while relocating? It would be really nice though.



Hey, if you get sent down for 20 years, we'll all take it in turns to come visit you, no worries.


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## wbacer (Jun 26, 2017)

Daniel James said:


> I am still getting into the nitty gritty of it. Will probs live stream it this week, so far loving it though. Super inspiring, and really good to block out sections
> 
> -DJ


Please post day, time and link for your live broadcast. I'd be interested in watching this live.
Thanks


----------



## X-Bassist (Jun 26, 2017)

rottoy said:


> This would be pretty easy to do if you have even a basic understanding of tinkering under the hood of Kontakt patches.



Not quite Rottoy. If you have a good understanding of Kontakt ksp scripting you would know many of these instruments involve specific scripts, like using arrays that name the samples or ranges specifically, so changing out samples would not necessarily get you the same results. It would also be even more complicated to add another library's round robins or velocity layers if they differ from this one's (which is most likely the case).

But good news is saving a patch under a different name first (to allow you to go back) then trying things is not impossible or illegal, as it doesn't break most EULA's. Just realize the script will most probably be locked, so swapping samples out may just get you nothing but an unusable nki (bad sound or no sound with lots of glitches). At least you won't go to jail! 

Another option for those interesting in this engine is using an outside arpeggiator like Cthulhu, which can do even more arp variations and has velocity settings per note (which can work like the envelopes in this). It's also much cheaper ($39 and they have a free demo!). 

https://www.xferrecords.com/products/cthulhu


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## ghandizilla (Jun 26, 2017)

Great post! Thanks X-Bassist! But the Engine has many other interests, among them: the possibility to layer and "octavate" different articulations from different patches. Anyway, it may be a super-interesting topic: how to emulate the Engine functionalities with other plug-ins.


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## rottoy (Jun 26, 2017)

X-Bassist said:


> Not quite Rottoy. If you have a good understanding of Kontakt ksp scripting you would know many of these instruments involve specific scripts, like using arrays that name the samples or ranges specifically, so changing out samples would not necessarily get you the same results. It would also be even more complicated to add another library's round robins or velocity layers if they differ from this one's (which is most likely the case).
> 
> But good news is saving a patch under a different name first (to allow you to go back) then trying things is not impossible or illegal, as it doesn't break most EULA's. Just realize the script will most probably be locked, so swapping samples out may just get you nothing but an unusable nki (bad sound or no sound with lots of glitches). At least you won't go to jail!
> 
> ...



I don't know a whole lot about the scripting part, so cheers for so eloquently putting me in my place!


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## jonathanparham (Jun 26, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> Great post! Thanks X-Bassist! But the Engine has many other interests, among them: the possibility to layer and "octavate" different articulations from different patches. Anyway, it may be a super-interesting topic: how to emulate the Engine functionalities with other plug-ins.



At the one minute mark, you see this dev use albion with it.

Apologies, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Back to Sonuscore which looks interesting.


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## bigcat1969 (Jun 26, 2017)

Having just been messing with arps, chords and such the last couple days in Kontakt after seeing the videos, yeah this has some seriously nice and very clever programming that goes beyond rudimentary arps. It is impressive and the price is quite nice if you can 'upgrade' or find some of the resellers.


----------



## X-Bassist (Jun 26, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> Having just been messing with arps, chords and such the last couple days in Kontakt after seeing the videos, yeah this has some seriously nice and very clever programming that goes beyond rudimentary arps. It is impressive and the price is quite nice if you can 'upgrade' or find some of the resellers.



Actually, speaking of this I did find best service has a crossgrade price for this of $299 if you already own one of their string or Orch libraries listed on the page- which I don't. But Sonoscore may do another 25% off sale in the future. 

https://www.bestservice.de/the_orchestra_crossgrade.html


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## ReMoFuMu (Jun 26, 2017)

de_signs said:


> In case you're interested, I'll be hosting a live stream with it tonight at www.twitch.tv/dirk_ehlert at 8.30 pm UTC+2 (11.30 pm PST). Cheers Dirk



Hey Dirk, really nice stream!  The dropouts every 55 sec were in the end funny...
I'm honest, I waited of a loud scream and a wild dance of you! *lol*

I don't know, which streaming software you normally use. Maybe try this free open source-donation software as an alternative. I use it personally not for streaming, but for screencast of my own stuff. The quality is better than my purchased software in my opinion...

Open Broadcaster Software

https://obsproject.com/


----------



## Dirk Ehlert (Jun 26, 2017)

ReMoFuMu said:


> Hey Dirk, really nice stream!  The dropouts every 55 sec were in the end funny...
> I'm honest, I waited of a loud scream and a wild dance of you! *lol*
> 
> I don't know, which streaming software you normally use. Maybe try this free open source-donation software as an alternative. I use it personally not for streaming, but for screencast of my own stuff. The quality is better than my purchased software in my opinion...
> ...


Thanks for the hint, I actually use OBS. It was wrong on my end to blame the streaming software, this part runs smoothly. The hard part is getting the ASIO signal into OBS, and that was the bottleneck. I'm using a software called ASIO Link Tool. Till today it has worked perfectly ^^, But as mentioned in the stream, for some unknown reason, it fell back into demo mode today with these 5 sec stops every minute. I even wanted to buy another license before the stream, but they had a message that they can't sell at the moment due to technical difficulties. I guess that's why I had problems to reactivate my copy with my (valid) license key. Anyway, I'm awaiting reply from their support and next time it hopefully is back running smoothly. Thanks for your patience


----------



## ReMoFuMu (Jun 26, 2017)

de_signs said:


> Thanks for the hint, I actually use OBS. It was wrong on my end to blame the streaming software, this part runs smoothly. The hard part is getting the ASIO signal into OBS, and that was the bottleneck. I'm using a software called ASIO Link Tool. Till today it has worked perfectly ^^, But as mentioned in the stream, for some unknown reason, it fell back into demo mode today with these 5 sec stops every minute. I even wanted to buy another license before the stream, but they had a message that they can't sell at the moment due to technical difficulties. I guess that's why I had problems to reactivate my copy with my (valid) license key. Anyway, I'm awaiting reply from their support and next time it hopefully is back running smoothly. Thanks for your patience



Thank you for your hint!  It remembers me on my iLok account. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I should reinstall, do it, system told me, it is installed. Restart the whole system and it works. Maybe one day or three or a week. 

Maybe it is a generally problem with software, which "home telephoned", if you start their products. If their server has problems, you have problems...

Who knows


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## wbacer (Jun 26, 2017)

de_signs said:


> Thanks for the hint, I actually use OBS. It was wrong on my end to blame the streaming software, this part runs smoothly. The hard part is getting the ASIO signal into OBS, and that was the bottleneck. I'm using a software called ASIO Link Tool. Till today it has worked perfectly ^^, But as mentioned in the stream, for some unknown reason, it fell back into demo mode today with these 5 sec stops every minute. I even wanted to buy another license before the stream, but they had a message that they can't sell at the moment due to technical difficulties. I guess that's why I had problems to reactivate my copy with my (valid) license key. Anyway, I'm awaiting reply from their support and next time it hopefully is back running smoothly. Thanks for your patience


Dirk, your stream was great. Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, I couldn't stay for the entire broadcast. Hopefully, despite the 5 sec drop outs you'll still post the session. I would love to go back and view what I missed.
It you decide to post the stream, please let us know when you get it up. Great job.


----------



## milamu (Jun 26, 2017)

Hi Dirk, thanks for your patience and streaming the video!
Now I know, these library has great possibilities, but also some major missing features:
no midi drag and drop to DAW
no separate outputs for the five parts of the engine
no random/humanization feature in the arps

That let me hesitate to buy the library. If someone from Sonuscore is reading this, is there a chance to see this things
in a future update?
Thanks Mike


----------



## Tilman (Jun 27, 2017)

Hey Mike,

let me just confirm that we at Sonuscore strongly feel about our commitment to “The Orchestra” and our customers, this will not be the end . Right now, we are collecting all your ideas and see what we can achieve in future updates.

Cheers, Tilman


----------



## Dirk Ehlert (Jun 27, 2017)

wbacer said:


> Dirk, your stream was great. Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, I couldn't stay for the entire broadcast. Hopefully, despite the 5 sec drop outs you'll still post the session. I would love to go back and view what I missed.
> It you decide to post the stream, please let us know when you get it up. Great job.


Yeah, I decided to still put it on YT despite the dropouts, as I hope that it's still informative. First two vids in this playlist:  Cheers


----------



## milamu (Jun 27, 2017)

Tilman said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> let me just confirm that we at Sonuscore strongly feel about our commitment to “The Orchestra” and our customers, this will not be the end . Right now, we are collecting all your ideas and see what we can achieve in future updates.
> 
> Cheers, Tilman




Wow thanks, this was a fast answer!


----------



## Daniel James (Jun 27, 2017)

Tilman said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> let me just confirm that we at Sonuscore strongly feel about our commitment to “The Orchestra” and our customers, this will not be the end . Right now, we are collecting all your ideas and see what we can achieve in future updates.
> 
> Cheers, Tilman



Step Sequencer pleeeeeease. You can copy the one we did in Project Alpha/Bravo its cool with us! Would work so well here, you could create legit motifs with ease! 

-DJ


----------



## procreative (Jun 27, 2017)

Tilman said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> let me just confirm that we at Sonuscore strongly feel about our commitment to “The Orchestra” and our customers, this will not be the end . Right now, we are collecting all your ideas and see what we can achieve in future updates.
> 
> Cheers, Tilman



Great news! Midi drag/drop and Keyswitchable phrases!! ... please.


----------



## zewolfx (Jun 27, 2017)

Tilman said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> let me just confirm that we at Sonuscore strongly feel about our commitment to “The Orchestra” and our customers, this will not be the end . Right now, we are collecting all your ideas and see what we can achieve in future updates.
> 
> Cheers, Tilman


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Jun 27, 2017)

OK, have worked with it all morning.
I'll give the bad first. I would rarely if ever use the basic sounds as my main instrument.
By themselves winds are not my cup of tea, legatos of most instruments are fairly useless. I had a few crashes but restart fixed things. There is not a huge footprint but engine appears to be pushing my computer.

The good or better. As bad as some of the sounds are on their own when they get put in the engine the cheesyness just seems to magically disappear, very weird but it works. The engine is nothing short of inspirational. Not sure when I had so much fun composing quickly. It's sooo kinetic, you play what you want and it helps arrange and orchestrate for you or not, your option. As a learning tool it can be useful if you solo the movements and observe what they are doing, sure physical notes on a staff are great but you get an audio reference and that's fine. Library is blending seamlessly with my other libs. I believe this sets a new bar in ease and inspiration of composing and I expect library companies to take notice and start implementing advanced engines into their instruments (yes both LASS and Spitfire have a form of this but this is a bit beyond that functionality). Piece took about 25 mins start to finish.

Quick example


----------



## mac (Jun 27, 2017)

@Craig Sharmat Nice review, thanks. Is it easy top create your own useable arps / sequences, or have the majority of the patterns that work in this context already been created by the devs? I'd imagine an arp can only go so far, especially with orchestral instruments.


----------



## muziksculp (Jun 27, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> OK, have worked with it all morning.
> I'll give the bad first. I would rarely if ever use the basic sounds as my main instrument.
> By themselves winds are not my cup of tea, legatos of most instruments are fairly useless. I had a few crashes but restart fixed things. There is not a huge footprint but engine appears to be pushing my computer.
> 
> ...




Hi Craig Sharmat,

Thanks for the demo track. It sounds very good.

Q. How many instances of the Engine did you use in this track ?

I didn't purchase this library yet, I'm still not sure I need it, but not putting it off yet.

I also find your comment interesting regarding how some of the sounds on their own sound kind of so-so, but when when blended into the engine sound pretty good. 

I'm still interested in watching a video showing the construction of a full track using 'The Orchestra', and the workflow, logic, and methodology of constructing a track in a speedy manner using this library.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## mac (Jun 27, 2017)

@muziksculp There's a decent vid further up from @de_signs which shows it in context.


----------



## muziksculp (Jun 27, 2017)

mac said:


> @muziksculp There's a decent vid further up from @de_signs which shows it in context.



Thanks, will check it out.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 27, 2017)

Mac, there are quite a few there that are usable but it is fairly easy to tweak. The engine does more than arps as it has envelopes for creating sustained swells that you can tweak.

Muziksculp...i used one instance of "The Orchestra" on this track and added solo instruments on top. There is one low CB patch from OT I added in the beginning, there are counter string lines at 48 secs form OT. the last chord is also "The Orchestra" so I guess thats a second multi I added for that.


----------



## muziksculp (Jun 27, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Muziksculp...i used one instance of "The Orchestra" on this track and added solo instruments on top. There is one low CB patch from OT I added in the beginning, there are counter string lines at 48 secs form OT. the last chord is also "The Orchestra" so I guess thats a second multi I added for that.



Thanks for the helpful feedback. Actually, the OT instruments blended nicely with 'The Orchestra' , so it looks like the Engine part of this library, could be very handy for speedy development of a section of a full track. I would have liked it much more if the Individual Instruments sounded better, but I guess at the small footprint of this library, that's not easy to accomplish. Maybe a future PRO version of this library "The Orchestra-Pro" at double the size, would be a smart move for Sonuscore, that would offer much better sounding instruments (just a little tip) 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## JC_ (Jun 27, 2017)

This is on my list for the near future (kind of wish I didn't upgrade to Komplete Ult before checking this out). I love these types of tools that are inspiring to use and can potentially improve workflow for certain types of tracks.


----------



## novaburst (Jun 27, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Piece took about 25 mins start to finish.



The piece was nice and appreciate it was done in flash time, but it is easy to here the machine effect right though to the end, I feel when ever this library is used there must be a lot more involvement with other ideas to hide the machine effect from this library. hence humanization is a must with this library.

its kind of funny but it kind of looks like the skill level will need to be raised if this library is going to be implemented in your projects,

from hearing some muck ups already I can see that users are having difficulty in restraint of usage.

I do like the idea of the library being an inspiration, but not the back bone of a project.

So on one hand the library can help you excel in your project, on the other hand the library has the ability to take over your project

timing is there as a guide, its not there to play bang on time its there to make sure you don't wonder to far away from the timing this freedom we have with time is essential to movement, dynamics, and vibe and also the element of surprise.


----------



## PeterN (Jun 27, 2017)

milamu said:


> Hi Dirk, thanks for your patience and streaming the video!
> Now I know, these library has great possibilities, but also some major missing features:
> no midi drag and drop to DAW
> no separate outputs for the five parts of the engine
> ...



Hey Mike,

I registered here just to say thanks, and after finally managing the registration question ("sampling") for this site, not only do I love The Orchestra but I got customer care Sunday evening for a minor download issue, which was solved in a minute. That was good service.

Yo!


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Jun 27, 2017)

novaburst said:


> The piece was nice and appreciate it was done in flash time, but it is easy to here the machine effect right though to the end, I feel when ever this library is used there must be a lot more involvement with other ideas to hide the machine effect from this library. hence humanization is a must with this library.
> 
> its kind of funny but it kind of looks like the skill level will need to be raised if this library is going to be implemented in your projects,
> 
> ...



sorry not hearing the machine gun stuff, I make my living at this, it's not happening here.


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## MarcusMaximus (Jun 27, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> sorry not hearing the machine gun stuff, I make my living at this, it's not happening here.


Not hearing it either. Piece sounds lovely to my ears. Thanks for posting.


----------



## erica-grace (Jun 27, 2017)

I hear no machine gunning at all.

Nice piece Craig!


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## R. Soul (Jun 27, 2017)

'Machine'....not 'machine gun'. I think he means that he can hear the arps being triggered and therefore making it a bit mechanical. But yeah, I don't hear it. 

Great piece Craig. I can't believe that took 25 min. wow.


----------



## Dr.Quest (Jun 27, 2017)

I don't hear anything that sounds machine-gun like at all. Very nice piece, Craig.


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## wbacer (Jun 27, 2017)

I just purchased, "The Orchestra" and I agree with Craig. The individual instruments are a little lacking but together they sound pretty convincing as demonstrated in Craig's piece. Nice work.


----------



## constaneum (Jun 27, 2017)

too bad they don't have piano as well as other melody percussions like glocks, marimba, xlyophone and etc.


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## Steinmetzify (Jun 27, 2017)

Really liked that piece, @Craig Sharmat.

My GAS for this has reached abominable levels.


----------



## dcoscina (Jun 27, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> OK, have worked with it all morning.
> I'll give the bad first. I would rarely if ever use the basic sounds as my main instrument.
> By themselves winds are not my cup of tea, legatos of most instruments are fairly useless. I had a few crashes but restart fixed things. There is not a huge footprint but engine appears to be pushing my computer.
> 
> ...



Nice sound and music Craig. The sounds are actually pretty pleasing to my ears.


----------



## Vastman (Jun 27, 2017)

Nice job, Craig!

I own all but one of SK's and both NI phrase libraries but am really enjoying this one for it's open ended rhythmic ostinatum structure...it sits well with SSS, the Albions, and both OT's ARks, just mucking around. I really like the fact that it can set up a great rhythmic structure underpinning a song idea

What everyone seems to agree on is that its iust fun to play! I've always found the phrase libs a bit cumbersome and challenging (being an extemporaneous sorta dude) but love their phrases...they let me toy with sounds/riffs only the "greats" on this forum can compose...but they ARE challenging for a dummy like me.

This is much more user friendly, at least the way I like to work. Great job!


----------



## Brian2112 (Jun 27, 2017)

Even an idiot drummer such as myself can get pleasing sounds with this thing just minding my parallel 8va's and 5ths!
Edit: Not taking away from Craig! Very nicely done! Actually the last chord sounds really nice and real to me despite being "raw" and not just running through the arp.


----------



## germancomponist (Jun 27, 2017)

The "sound" of this lib reminds me to another lib what I have used so often in the past, very cool! Craig, nice demo!


----------



## Oliver (Jun 28, 2017)

@germancomponist what lib might that be?


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## TGV (Jun 28, 2017)

So I couldn't resist either, and having played only a short time with it, I too noticed that for the instruments, in particular the woodwinds, articulations sound differently. However, I found that layering staccato and legato makes the sound much more lively: velocity controls the attack, and the mod-wheel the sustain, and when used with a bit of caution that sounds better to me.

(Layering them is done by using the two key switches, C0 and D# I think, simultaneously).


----------



## IFM (Jun 28, 2017)

I picked it up last night. This is going to blend quite well I think and I'm in love with it. I can't remember the last time I was smiling while just playing through the out of the box patches on a library. 

HO should blend quite well with it. Personally I though the reverb was great out of the shoot.


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## novaburst (Jun 28, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> sorry not hearing the machine gun stuff, I make my living at this, it's not happening here.



Ok must be my ears, thumbs up


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Jun 28, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Ok must be my ears, thumbs up


maybe it's the repetitive nature of the sequence.


----------



## mac (Jun 28, 2017)

@Craig Sharmat or anyone who runs this in logic - how does the arpeggiator compare to the one in logic?


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 28, 2017)

It's similar...though I don't believe you can do chords in Logic and The Orchestra has more patterns (11) available.
I think the biggest issue is finding a good staccato or spiccato patch that does not give you the mechanical gun effect one can get using the Logic arpeggiator. I think one of things about the orchestra is the lengths of the shorts were optimized to use the arpeggiator, they still sound fairly mechanical in the Logic sequencer but more forgiving than other libs I have tried.

btw if Sonuscore is watching this thread I'd love for the arpeggiator to be able to split up chords into patterns so it can do 2 notes on a triad then go to the single note afterwards and various other combinations. Also a neat saving your own patch system where there is a user area but it reads like the main area. Also it would be nice to have the single instruments be able to call up the engine.


----------



## Ashermusic (Jun 28, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> It's similar...though I don't believe you can do chords in Logic .




Sure, you can.


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jun 28, 2017)

Late to the game. But I like what I am hearing (and what benefit this can be in a crunch) Well done quick demo Craig -- showing just that. I might just take the plunge on this. Giving you guys 'fits' mixing - blending/eq with standard multisampled libraries?


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 28, 2017)

I was fine with mixing in different libs but I'm not real anal about it.


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Jun 28, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Sure, you can.



Jay Just hipped me to the custom grid, I think it is worth searching your libraries and playing with it. I think having things already laid out for you in "The Orchestra" is a real convenience but you may be able to achieve similar results if you spend some time with your samples and the Logic arpeggiator but my guess is it will be a lot of work and you will need 3 tracks going at the same time.


----------



## novaburst (Jun 28, 2017)

Craig Sharmat said:


> maybe it's the repetitive nature of the sequence.



It also could be because I know what your using, if you just posted and did not reveal what you used who knows maybe I would not notice, hahaha,

So maybe I already predetermined how it would sound if that makes any sense.


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## bigcat1969 (Jun 28, 2017)

Doesn't Kontakt have an Arp Script? I can't remember.


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## gyprock (Jun 30, 2017)

Just picked up The Orchestra from Big Fish Audio. They are having a 30% sale on purchases $399 and above until July 4.


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## SONUSCORE (Jun 30, 2017)

Hi guys. We're sorry. This is actually a mistake by Big Fish Audio and a discount that unfortunately has not been approved. We have decided to offer The Orchestra for a very attractive and fair initial price to get away from the typical discounts that only look great because the original price was too high - so we don't plan any discounts in the near future.
Due to this error, there's no guarantee that the product will be delivered. We're sorry for the inconveniences.


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## sostenuto (Jun 30, 2017)

SONUSCORE said:


> Hi guys. We're sorry. This is actually a mistake by Big Fish Audio and a discount that unfortunately has not been approved. We have decided to offer The Orchestra for a very attractive and fair initial price to get away from the typical discounts that only look great because the original price was too high - so we don't plan any discounts in the near future.
> Due to this error, there's no guarantee that the product will be delivered. We're sorry for the inconveniences.



Really not cool ... by both parties !!! Was ready to order .. in cart and discount shown! 
Mistakes shoulh be honored by professional sources ! Dunno whether to try this now or not!
AND OT just announced Inspire at $249. Intro. C'mon !!!!


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## Lionel Schmitt (Jun 30, 2017)

On this site by Best Service you can try out The Orchestra and many other vst's for free. https://www.bestservice.de/en/try-sound.html


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## Polkasound (Jun 30, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Mistakes shoulh be honored by professional sources



Some extremely lucky people may have already purchased and downloaded The Orchestra for $279. But it was a fluke. The sale was an honest mistake caught and announced by Sonuscore rather quickly. I see no obligation for either party to honor the completion of any uncompleted transactions.


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## sostenuto (Jun 30, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> Some extremely lucky people may have already purchased and downloaded The Orchestra for $279. But it was a fluke. The sale was an honest mistake caught and announced by Sonuscore rather quickly. I see no obligation for either party to honor the completion of any uncompleted transactions.



Disagree ! Not Lucky, just attentive timing !!
Was logging in with everything in Cart, showing discount price and then discount removed. UNPROFESSIONAL !

PM me Sonuscore !! What's 'fair' in this case ?? My Posts here show the timing clearly.


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## Polkasound (Jun 30, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Was logging in with everything in Cart, showing discount price and then discount removed. UNPROFESSIONAL !



I respect your opinion, but allow me convey mine in another way. Let's say you own a car dealership, and decided to mark down your inventory 19%. A typo in an advertisement marked your cars down at 91%. Hundreds of people flock to your dealership. Obviously honoring the typo would completely bankrupt your business.

You immediately acknowledge the typo on Twitter, Facebook, and have a retraction printed the next day. Would you expect people to understand that a mistake was made, or would you feel obligated to sell a car at 91% off to everyone who brought in a copy of the errant ad, willingly going bankrupt in the process?

A typo is a mistake. So is running an unauthorized 30% sale.


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## Steinmetzify (Jun 30, 2017)

DarkestShadow said:


> On this site by Best Service you can try out The Orchestra and many other vst's for free. https://www.bestservice.de/en/try-sound.html



Super cool idea.....thanks for the heads up, just booked a tryout session.


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## mac (Jun 30, 2017)

It's similar to the situation with Novo a few months back. You could get a discount on top of the intro price with some sellers. the next day, it was removed. Some people got lucky, some of us had to pay the full whack. Sounds like you just missed out by seconds in this case.


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## sostenuto (Jun 30, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> I respect your opinion, but allow me convey mine in another way. Let's say you own a car dealership, and decided to mark down your inventory 19%. A typo in an advertisement marked your cars down at 91%. Hundreds of people flock to your dealership. Obviously honoring the typo would completely bankrupt your business.
> 
> You immediately acknowledge the typo on Twitter, Facebook, and have a retraction printed the next day. Would you expect people to understand that a mistake was made, or would you feel obligated to sell a car at 91% off to everyone who brought in a copy of the errant ad, willingly going bankrupt in the process?
> 
> A typo is a mistake. So is running an unauthorized 30% sale.



Professionals do not run Unauthorized sales. The Orchestra lost an 'unprofitable' sale and I lost a decent deal ..... so be it. 
On to other stuff now ...
​


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## Polkasound (Jun 30, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Professionals do not run Unauthorized sales.



But the sale was a mistake, and professionals make mistakes... just the like typographer working at the newspaper who nearly bankrupted your car dealership.


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## Steinmetzify (Jun 30, 2017)

Just finished my demo. At the risk of sounding crude and also super hypey, I was fucking amazed.

Well DONE Sonuscore! I'll be purchasing as soon as the dosh presents itself.

@SONUSCORE: how many computers can I authorize on at the same time? I often leave sessions open at my studio and continue at home...can I do two at once?


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## koolkeys (Jun 30, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Professionals do not run Unauthorized sales. The Orchestra lost an 'unprofitable' sale and I lost a decent deal ..... so be it.
> On to other stuff now ...
> ​


Sorry, but that is absolute nonsense. If you think "Professional" means they don't make mistakes, that's delusional thinking. 

If you bought before they changed it, that's one thing. You didn't complete your purchase. They have a right to change prices on their own site at any time. 

Of course, if what you say is true, and they say they will honor the price for anyone who was thinking of ordering, everyone in the world would come forward and claim they thought they were getting the better price. 

So again, that thinking is just nonsense. You can have sour grapes, and you can try to guilt them into thinking they lost a sale, but that's life. Customers use all sorts of reasons why they won't buy something, all the time. If a company can't survive those unreasonable people, they aren't a good business. 

Yeah, it sucks to know you could have snuck in and got it cheaper. But you aren't entitled to the price if you didn't already complete your order.

Brent


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## koolkeys (Jun 30, 2017)

Steinmetzify said:


> @SONUSCORE: how many computers can I authorize on at the same time? I often leave sessions open at my studio and continue at home...can I do two at once?


Since it is authorized using Kontakt, it would be the same as all other Kontakt libraries. I believe that number stands at two simultaneous installs with one machine in use at a time, but the Service Center (or Native Access) is intelligent about moving your installs around and doesn't lock you out if you change systems. I can't say I've ever had an install denied.

Brent


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## Steinmetzify (Jun 30, 2017)

@koolkeys 

Good to know man, thanks!


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## Johann F. (Jul 1, 2017)

@sostenuto I'm selling mine for $369 in case you are still interested.


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## sostenuto (Jul 1, 2017)

Johann F. said:


> @sostenuto I'm selling mine for $369 in case you are still interested.



Ha!! Were you one of the lucky $279. buyers ?? ( just kidding)  
Lots of posting now suggests The Orch and Inspire are NOT so much overlap and good justification for both. Will need lots more time to digest.


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## sostenuto (Jul 1, 2017)

koolkeys said:


> Sorry, but that is absolute nonsense. If you think "Professional" means they don't make mistakes, that's delusional thinking.
> 
> If you bought before they changed it, that's one thing. You didn't complete your purchase. They have a right to change prices on their own site at any time.
> 
> ...



One size fits all. Your opinion; fine. 

Sonuscore knows timing of my posts and of their cancellation with Big Fish Audio. They could have easily reached out with PM, as there surely were not that many with Discount in Cart and going to Checkout. So be it ........

Waay late responding as some craziness here from MS_Edge. Lots of garbled characters. No problem with Chrome. Just figure it out .....


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## Vastman (Jul 1, 2017)

I agree with Brent on this one. Creators try to preserve value and everyone lives on the margin these days cept the 1%...

Mistakes happen. Being an early bird I've gotten some super savings on a couple spitfire libs till spitfire took action. Other times I wasn't quick enough!

BTW, love being in a position to get both libs... They indeed serve different needs and provide unique value...

Smart move to get OT's intro deal...it is super! On the other hand, TO is a blast! I haven't had this much fun just noodling and coming up with song ideas EVER with an orchestral library... TO will have a bargain at some point I'm sure


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## Johann F. (Jul 1, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Ha!! Were you one of the lucky $279. buyers ?? ( just kidding)
> Lots of posting now suggests The Orch and Inspire are NOT so much overlap and good justification for both. Will need lots more time to digest.



No, I paid full price. Enjoy your new library!


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## sostenuto (Jul 1, 2017)

Johann F. said:


> No, I paid full price. Enjoy your new library!


Great, FAST Sale !!


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## Vastman (Jul 1, 2017)

Johann F. said:


> No, I paid full price. Enjoy your new library!


Some lucky ducky is gonna be very happy with your library, Johann.


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## ctsai89 (Jul 1, 2017)

Brian2112 said:


> Even an idiot drummer such as myself can get pleasing sounds with this thing just minding my parallel 8va's and 5ths!
> Edit: Not taking away from Craig! Very nicely done! Actually the last chord sounds really nice and real to me despite being "raw" and not just running through the arp.



hahahhaa Yea I got this library because I dind't wanna build the MIDI for the arps myself. I want to be lazy and still be able to pull off epic productions  for more serioulsy music though, I just Spitfire, and would almost never quantize.


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## Johann F. (Jul 1, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Some lucky ducky is gonna be very happy with your library, Johann.



Yes, he was very happy. I got buyer's remorse after fiddling for a few days and realizing it's just not for me.


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## Vastman (Jul 1, 2017)

Johann F. said:


> Yes, he was very happy. I got buyer's remorse after fiddling for a few days and realizing it's just not for me.


I have the utmost respect for companies that allow this.


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## Potter (Jul 2, 2017)

Anyone know if they work Sundays? I ordered this 12 hours ago and still no download link. I got it as a birthday present to myself so will be disappointed if I can't unwrap it today.


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## mac (Jul 2, 2017)

Potter said:


> Anyone know if they work Sundays? I ordered this 12 hours ago and still no download link. I got it as a birthday present to myself so will be disappointed if I can't unwrap it today.



Did you register the serial at best service?


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> I respect your opinion, but allow me convey mine in another way. Let's say you own a car dealership, and decided to mark down your inventory 19%. A typo in an advertisement marked your cars down at 91%. Hundreds of people flock to your dealership. Obviously honoring the typo would completely bankrupt your business.
> 
> You immediately acknowledge the typo on Twitter, Facebook, and have a retraction printed the next day. Would you expect people to understand that a mistake was made, or would you feel obligated to sell a car at 91% off to everyone who brought in a copy of the errant ad, willingly going bankrupt in the process?
> 
> A typo is a mistake. So is running an unauthorized 30% sale.


Good reasoning but the legal perspective allows for nuance, stipulating that sales, even due to mistakes, should be honored unless the mistake is obvious, like in your car example, yet unlike the 30% off sostenuto refers to. So, if he agreed to purchase at that sale price, it should be honored by the vendor.


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## Marko Zirkovich (Jul 2, 2017)

Potter said:


> Anyone know if they work Sundays? I ordered this 12 hours ago and still no download link. I got it as a birthday present to myself so will be disappointed if I can't unwrap it today.


I ordered The Orchestra last Sunday from JRRShop. No immediate automatic serial or download links, just the receipt and the info that I'd get an e-mail from BestService once the serial had been generated. I didn't expect it and the surprise was even more pleasant when that e-mail arrived on Sunday afternoon with enough time left to dive into the Orchestra.

So, hang in, there's hope yet for you to get the necessary info even on Sunday.


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## Potter (Jul 2, 2017)

Thanks for that Marko, fingers crossed then.


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## Quasar (Jul 2, 2017)

I heard a machine gun effect too, but then I realized I had clicked on this by mistake.



With all these new orchestral libraries coming out, a quick count reveals that I _want_ about $2400 worth of libraries. Even if I had the money (which I don't) this is pathologically, clinically insane...


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## sostenuto (Jul 2, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Good reasoning but the legal perspective allows for nuance, stipulating that sales, even due to mistakes, should be honored unless the mistake is obvious, like in your car example, yet unlike the 30% off sostenuto refers to. So, if he agreed to purchase at that sale price, it should be honored by the vendor.



Appreciate this flexible view ... yet in context with others !

Honoring my order, when precisely at erroneous deal correction moment, would have been great, but just terrible timing for me.
Actually, Big Fish Audio's error, and apologies to Sonuscore for pointing to them. Tough now to go back to BFA and expect them to help. It may be worth a try ...

The Orchestra looks like solid product and interested that it stands somewhat apart from OT BOI.

Moving on


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## sostenuto (Jul 2, 2017)

Legal opinions are just that. This was actually Big Fish Audio issue (with Sonuscore). Sonuscore posted here and behaved reasonably (despite my emotional reaction). I have subsequently appealed to Big Fish Audio to review the situation and respond.

Legalize has brought massive problems; few solutions. Problems are solved by decent individuals making studied decisions. Not so many today and decreasing by the minute ....


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## TGV (Jul 2, 2017)

My God, this is a fun library. Here's an "epic" track I made in a few hours after downloading it. It consists of only "The Orchestra" and three almost unnoticeable Izotope instances: https://hearthis.at/tgv/the-orchestra-izotope/


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## Polkasound (Jul 2, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Problems are solved by decent individuals making studied decisions. Not so many today and decreasing by the minute ....



I wholeheartedly agree with you on that. Over the years, I've been plagiarized, defamed, and my copyrights have been infringed, all by people who work in the same part of the music industry as me. But I always assume ignorance over malice, and aim to work the problem out directly over a couple of beers. It works.

(TGV, thanks for getting this thread back on its rails!)


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## sostenuto (Jul 2, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with you on that. Over the years, I've been plagiarized, defamed, and my copyrights have been infringed, all by people who work in the same part of the music industry as me. But I always assume ignorance over malice, and aim to work the problem out directly over a couple of beers. It works.
> 
> (TGV, thanks for getting this thread back on its rails!)



Ha! Progress!  Now focused on many comments and struggling to position/sort The Orchestra versus alternatives, especially BOI.
Not discounting anything posted so far, just working to put it all in focus.
Will likely end up with both, just a matter of priority.

Earlier suggestion to try Best Service 'demo' system may be great help ...

Regards !​


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## Steinmetzify (Jul 2, 2017)

TGV said:


> My God, this is a fun library. Here's an "epic" track I made in a few hours after downloading it. It consists of only "The Orchestra" and three almost unnoticeable Izotope instances: https://hearthis.at/tgv/the-orchestra-izotope/



Listening now...really dig this, man. Nice work and it 'sounds' like you had fun lol.


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## Vastman (Jul 2, 2017)

TGV said:


> My God, this is a fun library. Here's an "epic" track I made in a few hours after downloading it. It consists of only "The Orchestra" and three almost unnoticeable Izotope instances: https://hearthis.at/tgv/the-orchestra-izotope/


Thanks...great track! It is loads of fun! Indeed, having been embroiled in life changes for the past 9 months, I've had virtually no time to write and this has been the most fun weekend I've has in nearly a year!


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## sostenuto (Jul 2, 2017)

TGV said:


> My God, this is a fun library. Here's an "epic" track I made in a few hours after downloading it. It consists of only "The Orchestra" and three almost unnoticeable Izotope instances: https://hearthis.at/tgv/the-orchestra-izotope/



Hmmmm ..... got me ! Definitely cool job and must experience as well. 

Download grinding along .... your talent pushed me over the edge.


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## Vastman (Jul 2, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Hmmmm ..... got me ! Definitely cool job and must experience as well.
> 
> Download grinding along .... your talent pushed me over the edge.



Dude! You are gonna flip out... This is one shit-slick piece of a kit.


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## moosethree (Jul 2, 2017)

Did I hear choir patches in that??? part of The Orchestra?. [/QUOTE]


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> I respect the sentiment, but it's not legally supported. Mistakes in advertising happen all the time, such as typos and miscommunications. Sales cannot be forced under any such conditions. The only way a sale must be honored is if the company concludes the transaction at the mistake price. That constitutes the completion of a contract, so if anyone bought The Orchestra at 30% off, the transaction cannot be rescinded. If no money was exchanged, then Big Fish Audio has no legal obligation to deliver the merchandise at the advertised price. Putting merchandise in a shopping cart shows intent to buy, but does not constitute the completion of a contract.
> 
> Obviously companies have the right to honor sales at mistake prices, and refusing to do so is going to anger some customers, but that choice is the company's. I have to stand with Sonuscore on this one.


Just to be clear, there is a legal obligation to fulfill once a vendor's offer is accepted by a buyer, even when he hasn't paid yet, and even when a mistake or typo was made, except when the mistake was too evident, like in your car example. The 30% off sale, though, was valid if the buyer agreed to purchase.
Now that's just a lawyer's POV, not a musical one, so carry on indeed


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## ctsai89 (Jul 2, 2017)

moosethree said:


> Did I hear choir patches in that??? part of The Orchestra?.


[/QUOTE]

Yes it is. U can a lot of syllables for the staccato but only oh and ah for sustains. No legato for the choir


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## moosethree (Jul 2, 2017)

wow I have legato covered: the staccato syllables, that saves me some $$!


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## Polkasound (Jul 2, 2017)

Fleer said:


> there is a legal obligation to fulfill once a vendor's offer is accepted by a buyer, even when he hasn't paid yet, and even when a mistake or typo was made



Hmmm. I always understood it to be the other way around -- that the obligation is legal when the _buyer's_ offer is accepted by the _vendor_. If that were the case, it would mean BFA is not legally obligated to deliver The Orchestra until the $279 is transacted, the same as an errant price offer in a store wouldn't have to be honored unless the shopper had already paid. In other words, BFA can simply reject the buyer's offer of $279 if they catch their pricing mistake _before_ the buyer pays. And even then, I think it's safe assume BFA has a clause in their Terms & Conditions stating that in the event of a pricing error, they can withhold a product and refund payment.



Fleer said:


> except when the mistake was too evident, like in your car example



So you're saying that even if there were no doubt that BFA's advertisement was not false advertising, but due to a clerical error such as a typo, BFA is legally obligated to honor the sale price for every person who says "I was going to buy it at that price."? At what level of discount would that no longer apply? 40%? 60%? I'll defer to your expertise. I'm just an accordion player.


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

Let's get together, I'm a flautist 
But yeah, that's how it works. Otherwise vendors could easily retract their offers at will. Simply stated, the vendor offers a sale and when the buyer agrees, it's legit. Whether a sale is considered mistaken in order to legally retract is up to a judge, who will take the buyer's POV, and interpret whether that buyer could or should have known that the sale was mistaken. That's why the 30% BFA sale would indeed be considered valid, but a $9 Maserati sale would not.


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## koolkeys (Jul 2, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Let's get together, I'm a flautist
> But yeah, that's how it works. Otherwise vendors could easily retract their offers at will. Simply stated, the vendor offers a sale and when the buyer agrees, it's legit. Whether a sale is considered mistaken in order to legally retract is up to a judge, who will take the buyer's POV, and interpret whether that buyer could or should have known that the sale was mistaken. That's why the 30% BFA sale would indeed be considered valid, but a $9 Maserati sale would not.


Regardless of all that, I am fairly confident you would be incorrect in this situation. Even customer advocacy groups like Consumer Reports have said that unless there is a bait and switch going on, the retailer is not required to honor the price before a transaction has taken place.

You see, the problem with the argument of the BUYER being the one to accept is that there is no law stating that. Under California law (which is the law Big Fish Audio's terms of use refers to), the price charged can't be more than the price being advertised at the TIME OF SALE. When does that happen? Well, logic would suggest that a sale happens when money changes hands. If the sale price was changed BEFORE the sale took place, it is no longer a requirement to honor that price. Obviously, to be in best faith, you would hope their shopping cart would notify them of a higher price before payment goes through. Otherwise, I would side with the buyer in that case if the cart and Paypal showed one price but then charged more without any notice. 

There is no federal or California law that says they must honor a price once a customer agrees to it. If there were, I could go around adding things to my cart from every online retailer DURING THEIR SALE, and then come back later asking for those prices, even if the sale is over. 

Vendors CAN retract their offers at will. Suggesting that they can't is silly, quite honestly. So customers should be able to determine when exactly a sale ends? Of course not. 

Only if the actual sale has been completed is a price required to be honored. 

Sorry to drag this further, but just had to add these things. Ultimately, maybe BFA will honor the sale, maybe not. Businesses can do so if they wish. But they aren't under an obligation to. 

Brent


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## koolkeys (Jul 2, 2017)

To get back to The Orchestra, some have asked for a walk through of the demo. This may be of interest? Just saw it when browsing Youtube tonight:



Brent


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

Guess you're not a lawyer, Brent.
If you re-read my posts, you'll understand. 
Anyway, music trumps law, always


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

koolkeys said:


> Regardless of all that, I am fairly confident you would be incorrect in this situation. Even customer advocacy groups like Consumer Reports have said that unless there is a bait and switch going on, the retailer is not required to honor the price before a transaction has taken place.
> 
> You see, the problem with the argument of the BUYER being the one to accept is that there is no law stating that. Under California law (which is the law Big Fish Audio's terms of use refers to), the price charged can't be more than the price being advertised at the TIME OF SALE. When does that happen? Well, logic would suggest that a sale happens when money changes hands. If the sale price was changed BEFORE the sale took place, it is no longer a requirement to honor that price. Obviously, to be in best faith, you would hope their shopping cart would notify them of a higher price before payment goes through. Otherwise, I would side with the buyer in that case if the cart and Paypal showed one price but then charged more without any notice.
> 
> ...


This might help you understand: an offer by a vendor, once made, can be revoked before acceptance. Yet, if accepted in time, it cannot.


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## koolkeys (Jul 2, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Guess you're not a lawyer, Brent.
> If you re-read my posts, you'll understand.
> Anyway, music trumps law, always


I've read them. And what I said is correct unless there is a law you can point to that says differently. I'm not really interested in arguing for the sake of arguing really, but just sharing what I know. I don't need to be a lawyer (though for reference, I have studied business law, and I know how to navigate through these things). You say the buyer's agreement makes the sale official. Care to share the law you are using for that? I'll accept FTC law or California law, which are the only two entities that likely matter here. Every state has their own rules (if they don't, then they follow the federal guidelines generally set by the FTC). California has no such rule.

Again, forgive the potential argumentative nature. Not trying to be that way. Just trying to add to the discussion. If there is an applicable law that governs Big Fish Audio that supports your view, I'll accept it. But I don't believe there is one.

Brent


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## koolkeys (Jul 2, 2017)

Fleer said:


> This might help you understand: an offer by a vendor, once made, can be revoked before acceptance. Yet, if accepted in time, it cannot.


Agreed. Now, please define "accepted in time".? If I added something to my cart now, knowing I planned on buying, but forgot and came back a week after the sale, did I accept the offer? No, not at all. And no law would support me getting that sale price. 

"In time" would be completing the sale before the price was changed. I'll accept if there is a law that says otherwise. But if there is, there would certainly have to be many supporting principles and definitions because the lines being drawn are far too vague if that were the case.

Brent


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

No prob. Didn't practice in California, but it's Contracts 101 at HLS.


koolkeys said:


> I've read them. And what I said is correct unless there is a law you can point to that says differently. I'm not really interested in arguing for the sake of arguing really, but just sharing what I know. I don't need to be a lawyer (though for reference, I have studied business law, and I know how to navigate through these things). You say the buyer's agreement makes the sale official. Care to share the law you are using for that? I'll accept FTC law or California law, which are the only two entities that likely matter here. Every state has their own rules (if they don't, then they follow the federal guidelines generally set by the FTC). California has no such rule.
> 
> Again, forgive the potential argumentative nature. Not trying to be that way. Just trying to add to the discussion. If there is an applicable law that governs Big Fish Audio that supports your view, I'll accept it. But I don't believe there is one.
> 
> Brent


No prob. Didn't practice in California, though, but it's Contracts 101 at HLS.


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

koolkeys said:


> Agreed. Now, please define "accepted in time".? If I added something to my cart now, knowing I planned on buying, but forgot and came back a week after the sale, did I accept the offer? No, not at all. And no law would support me getting that sale price.
> 
> "In time" would be completing the sale before the price was changed. I'll accept if there is a law that says otherwise. But if there is, there would certainly have to be many supporting principles and definitions because the lines being drawn are far too vague if that were the case.
> 
> Brent


Think you're misunderstanding. In time means a normal amount of time. Any sale offer has to remain valid for so long. During that time, any buyer may accept the sale offer, by paying the price or otherwise showing his clear intention. Of course he should be adamant as far as his acceptance goes. No fishy business


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## koolkeys (Jul 2, 2017)

Fleer said:


> No prob. Didn't practice in California, but it's Contracts 101 at HLS.
> 
> No prob. Didn't practice in California, though, but it's Contracts 101 at HLS.


Contract law does not all apply online though. Most contract laws were written with face to face communications in mind. ECommerce as changed everything, as you know. And there have been many things written or re-defined by the FTC over the years, and individual states. Though I wish the law would catch up. I don't know that there are any specific laws, California or otherwise, that state the rules of online shopping carts. The law has certainly not been fully updated to apply to modern scenarios. 

Regardless, contract law can't be uniformly applied to online commerce because online sales doesn't have all the required aspects of legally binding contracts (things like consent are very difficult to determine in an online transaction, for instance). 

Of course, laws are open to interpretations as well, which is why I'm open to reading specific laws. But in my time looking into this, both today and in the past (law fascinates me, so even though I'm not a lawyer, I love learning about it more), I have yet to see any law requiring a retailer to honor a price based on the customer's timing or solely based on customer intent. Intent is only ONE of many parts of a binding contract, and by itself doesn't create a contract. 

Brent


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

Didn't know that! Quite interested in polka music myself. As for the law, well, it can be fun but often isn't, depending on the people involved. Music provides a much nicer environment.


Polkasound said:


> I can't see at-will retractions being a problem, since every retraction results in lost sales and the ire of customers... unless the vendor wanted to risk being investigated or sued for false advertising.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Didn't know that! Quite interested in polka music myself. As for the law, well, it can be fun but often isn't, depending on the people involved. Music provides a much nicer environment.


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

koolkeys said:


> Contract law does not all apply online though. Most contract laws were written with face to face communications in mind. ECommerce as changed everything, as you know. And there have been many things written or re-defined by the FTC over the years, and individual states. Though I wish the law would catch up. I don't know that there are any specific laws, California or otherwise, that state the rules of online shopping carts. The law has certainly not been fully updated to apply to modern scenarios.
> 
> Regardless, contract law can't be uniformly applied to online commerce because online sales doesn't have all the required aspects of legally binding contracts (things like consent are very difficult to determine in an online transaction, for instance).
> 
> ...


The latter is very true, of course, but basic contract law such as offer and acceptance will remain applicable to e-commerce as well, apart from specific aspects.


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## koolkeys (Jul 2, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Think you're misunderstanding. In time means a normal amount of time. Any sale offer has to remain valid for so long. During that time, any buyer may accept the sale offer, by paying the price or otherwise showing his clear intention. Of course he should be adamant as far as his acceptance goes. No fishy business


Ok, define "normal" amount of time? What law states that a sale offer has to remain valid for so long? Can you define how long a customer should have after showing intention before the store can finally be let free? 

Again, if there is law on this matter, there will be attached definitions that clarify these terms. But I hold to my findings that there is no law requiring a retailer to honor a price for ANY set amount of time, or to honor a price purely based on customer's intent to purchase. You can make that argument if we're talking traditional contract law (though there are opposing sides to it even then). But this is not a traditional contract law transaction. 

Private stores have certain rights as well. And that includes the ability to hold sales and remove sales at any time. Sure, there are rules defining deceptive pricing practices, but this is not a case of deception and doesn't fit any of the definitions of said rules. 

Brent


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

As I wrote above, the tenets of contract law apply. As for time and duress, courts decide on a case by case basis.


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## koolkeys (Jul 2, 2017)

Fleer said:


> The latter is very true, of course, but basic contract law such as offer and acceptance will remain applicable to e-commerce as well, apart from specific aspects.


It CAN remain applicable, but ecommerce by its very nature can't clearly satisfy all the tenants of a binding contract. And even in traditional contract law, or in a non-ecommerce store, there are exceptions, protections for the private business, and other factors. 

Again, I understand the argument you're trying to make. I'm only saying that it doesn't apply here, and there is no law that requires a business to hold a sale for any particular length of time, or requiring them to honor PREVIOUSLY advertised prices, which is the case here. As long as the price is dropped before the sale, the customer has no recourse. 

Brent


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## Fleer (Jul 2, 2017)

Then we agree to disagree


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## koolkeys (Jul 2, 2017)

Fleer said:


> As I wrote above, the tenets of contract law apply. As for time and duress, courts decide on a case by case basis.


Except, they can't possibly be applied clearly for online transactions. 

Offer and acceptance, consent and other tenants are very much difficult to define for online transactions. And to date, I don't know of any case law or clarifications that force requirements on a business to honor a price even after that price has changed. And that's really all it is. 

So unless you can point to either a law, precedence, or FTC clarification, what you say is purely speculative. You simply can't claim that every part of contract law applies universally online. 

And with that, I don't know what else there is to say. I think we've gotten off the topic pretty far, which is unfortunate. So I'll respectfully withdraw and acknowledge that there is plenty of room for me to be mistaken. Obviously, this isn't something that is going to go to a judge, and this conversation is probably more for our enjoyment (I actually do enjoy it), lol. Either BFA will honor the price, or they will not. 

Brent


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## koolkeys (Jul 2, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Then we agree to disagree


Yes sir. I'm fine with that ending, haha! See my post above for my "final words". But ultimately, I'm saying the same thing, lol.

Brent


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## Brian2112 (Jul 2, 2017)

Lol! Lawyers with writers block!


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## Vastman (Jul 2, 2017)

could you guys start a new thread... this has totally derailed an otherwise interesting discussion about The Orchestra. You really are blathering... go private, maybe? Or, "when's a sale a sale" thread where you could wax adnausium and bother no one...

Sorry for the tone but this has gotten ridiculous and is now serious clutter outside the OP.


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## gyprock (Jul 2, 2017)

If Sonuscore had let Big Fish continue their sale (for less than a week), this thread would have stayed on topic i.e. The Orchestra. Sonuscore would have increased their sales and picked up more customers to keep the buzz going. Instead the thread lost it's momentum - a branding train wreck.

At the end of the day it's not about contracts. It's about brand loyalty. I run a small fashion jewellery business in Australia, predominantly wholesale with a little bit of direct internet sales. The lesson I learned over the years is to always give the customer the benefit of the doubt. Whenever I receive a complaint and rectify it, 80% of the time the customer will order something extra, usually on the spot. It's just not worth my time to reprimand the customer and throw legal mumbo jumbo at them.


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## koolkeys (Jul 2, 2017)

Vastman said:


> could you guys start a new thread... this has totally derailed an otherwise interesting discussion about The Orchestra. You really are blathering... go private, maybe? Or, "when's a sale a sale" thread where you could wax adnausium and bother no one...
> 
> Sorry for the tone but this has gotten ridiculous and is now serious clutter outside the OP.


It was a relevant conversation for some people. Eye of the beholder. But regardless, we've both ended that part of the thread. No tone necessary. 

Brent


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## Vovique (Jul 2, 2017)

I just noticed that the $299 crossgrade from Best Service Peter Siedlaczek libraries is a time-limited offer, so I'm planning to to take action by the end of the month.


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## jjmmuir (Jul 2, 2017)

Back to topic then. 

Bought The Orchestra a few days ago and for me it's awesome. The patches are tweakable and super fun. Perfect for hobbyists looking to explore orchestral samples. Shout out to both Sonuscore and Best Service for super helpful, quick customer service!


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## Polkasound (Jul 2, 2017)

Gyprock, I totally agree with you in that keeping a customer happy is the best overall solution, especially as it relates to one-on-one customer interaction, but it's just not practical in every situation. I'm certain Sonuscore spent time looking at their production costs, estimated sales, competitor prices, etc. and determined $399 to be the right starting price for their product.

Let's say Sonuscore estimated they'd make a thousand sales in the first month. (Without accounting for fees, taxes, commissions, etc. for the sake of brevity) that's $399,000. If BFA were held to the errant sale, it would have resulted in the loss of $119,700. The only way to compensate for that loss would be to sell 430 more units at the sale price. That's a big risk. I'm confident Sonuscore's decision to shut down the errant sale was based on their earlier calculations.

OK, back onto topic.... Vovique, thanks for mentioning the Best Service crossgrade offer! I have the Peter Siedlaczek Complete Orchestral Collection, and it is the most useless library I've ever purchased. But hey, if it gets me $100 off of The Orchestra, then I guess it's not so useless after all!


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## Vastman (Jul 2, 2017)

Yep! Totally agree, JJ! Hoping Sonuscore does lots more instructional vids...this library's gui is far more complex and capable than I expected...providing detailed "how to" walkthrus will help show its depth, garner interest and help folks wield TO to its maximum potential!

Bought a lot of stuff in the past 12 months as my life was changing...this is by far the best of the bunch! Innovative and loads of fun...


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## TGV (Jul 3, 2017)

moosethree said:


> Did I hear choir patches in that??? part of The Orchestra?.


There are 10, if I counted properly: La, Mus, Ci, etc. Nothing fancy, and there are big jumps in timbre between the dynamic layers, but very useful.


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## SoNowWhat? (Jul 3, 2017)

Vastman said:


> could you guys start a new thread... this has totally derailed an otherwise interesting discussion about The Orchestra. You really are blathering... go private, maybe? Or, "when's a sale a sale" thread where you could wax adnausium and bother no one...
> 
> Sorry for the tone but this has gotten ridiculous and is now serious clutter outside the OP.


When it's a spinnaker?

Oh crap! Never mind.
You have TO and I'd like to ask are you still enjoying it? I feel that I'm across its short comings and it still interests me as an alternative sketching tool to those I have.
Am going to test it out through Best Service Try Sound (which is a fantastic service no pun intended) first. Not sure if I should jump now or wait for a sale. There are other items on my radar right now too. Some time critical. Still undecided.


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## madfloyd (Jul 3, 2017)

Anyone experiences any bugs with this? I'm playing with The Princes Toy, an animated multi and noticed that as soon as I move the mod wheel I lose voices. So I then reload the patch and avoid the mod wheel but within a minute I've lost the strings.


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## lp59burst (Jul 3, 2017)

SoNowWhat? said:


> When it's a spinnaker?
> 
> Oh crap! Never mind.
> You have TO and I'd like to ask are you still enjoying it? I feel that I'm across its short comings and it still interests me as an alternative sketching tool to those I have.
> Am going to test it out through Best Service Try Sound (which is a fantastic service no pun intended) first. Not sure if I should jump now or wait for a sale. There are other items on my radar right now too. Some time critical. Still undecided.


Me too... let's compare notes and see if we're both pondering the same things... to get SFBH, OTI, or TO... right?

I can afford two of the three... SFBH is for sure, so now it's either OTI, or TO...  

I'm leaning towards OTI since they make top shelf products that I have several of already and use regularly, it's on intro pricing and they *rarely* have sales, and TO isn't on sale plus it's more money - but wow, it looks like so much fun and I keep hearing that "inspirational" word used to describe it...


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## sostenuto (Jul 3, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Yep! Totally agree, JJ! Hoping Sonuscore does lots more instructional vids...this library's gui is far more complex and capable than I expected...providing detailed "how to" walkthrus will help show its depth, garner interest and help folks wield TO to its maximum potential!
> 
> Bought a lot of stuff in the past 12 months as my life was changing...this is by far the best of the bunch! Innovative and loads of fun...



Pardon my 'edit' @ Vastman.
Really 'spot-on' !!!  PLZ Sonuscore ! This is a huge, potential WIN-WIN . 
Impact on sales and happy Owners has to be positive ... important to do soon tho.


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## Potter (Jul 3, 2017)

madfloyd said:


> Anyone experiences any bugs with this? I'm playing with The Princes Toy, an animated multi and noticed that as soon as I move the mod wheel I lose voices. So I then reload the patch and avoid the mod wheel but within a minute I've lost the strings.


I have only managed to start playing with it in the past hour and have experienced several instances of voices dropping out and various other Kontakt crashes while using it.


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## sostenuto (Jul 3, 2017)

Potter said:


> I have only managed to start playing with it in the past hour and have experienced several instances of voices dropping out and various other Kontakt crashes while using it.



Sonuscore monitoring their COMMERCIAL Announcement Thread. Have just posted some positive feedback, (not this issue). Post over there too ??


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## Ryan99 (Jul 3, 2017)

Sounds amazing!


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## LHall (Jul 3, 2017)

A couple of questions for someone who has this - maybe Craig? 

I don't really live in a world where everything revolves around epic 8th note rhythms, so I'm more interested in the individual articulations for the purpose of doing sketches. I'm curious what the dynamics controls are on the sustain and legato articulations? Watching the video, I kept seeing the mod wheel moving but it didn't seem to be doing much. Will the sus violins, for instance, go from pp to ff using the mod wheel rather than velocity?

Also, I'm thinking this might be useful for my live gig to layer some orchestral sound nicely and fade in with various controllers. Anyone tried any of that?


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## Fleer (Jul 3, 2017)

Thinking the same about live use. Would this library push the boundaries and take live use of symphonic libraries to the next level ?


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## sostenuto (Jul 3, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> Gyprock, I totally agree with you in that keeping a customer happy is the best overall solution, especially as it relates to one-on-one customer interaction, but it's just not practical in every situation. I'm certain Sonuscore spent time looking at their production costs, estimated sales, competitor prices, etc. and determined $399 to be the right starting price for their product.
> 
> Let's say Sonuscore estimated they'd make a thousand sales in the first month. (Without accounting for fees, taxes, commissions, etc. for the sake of brevity) that's $399,000. If BFA were held to the errant sale, it would have resulted in the loss of $119,700. The only way to compensate for that loss would be to sell 430 more units at the sale price. That's a big risk. I'm confident Sonuscore's decision to shut down the errant sale was based on their earlier calculations.
> 
> OK, back onto topic.... Vovique, thanks for mentioning the Best Service crossgrade offer! I have the Peter Siedlaczek Complete Orchestral Collection, and it is the most useless library I've ever purchased. But hey, if it gets me $100 off of The Orchestra, then I guess it's not so useless after all!



REALLY great to see this back ON TOPIC !!

_PAINS_ me to digress, BUT I must add 'for the record' ____ 

I made professional and courteous appeal describing situation, precisely as posted here, and received extraordinary response !!! Not fair, or appropriate, to comment further, BUT all is well and could not be more pleased !!
Human professionalism rules ! 

NOW ... back ON TOPIC ??


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## SoNowWhat? (Jul 3, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> Me too... let's compare notes and see if we're both pondering the same things... to get SFBH, OTI, or TO... right?
> 
> I can afford two of the three... SFBH is for sure, so now it's either OTI, or TO...
> 
> I'm leaning towards OTI since they make top shelf products that I have several of already and use regularly, it's on intro pricing and they *rarely* have sales, and TO isn't on sale plus it's more money - but wow, it looks like so much fun and I keep hearing that "inspirational" word used to describe it...


Pretty close to me, yes. In addition to the music side though there are some demands from the outside world. Damn you reality!!

I've had my eye on Avenger (synth) and it's just gone on sale. There are other libraries/tools on my list that fill gaps in my toolkit but aren't new (CSS, CHSS) or are pending (Embertone Joshua Bell, Helix native - c'mon Line6 get your *cough* together). So I need to keep that in mind with any purchases now, or it just gets a bit ridiculous. I'm not even counting the Spitfire+Whitacre choir as I'm not sure how long that one will be in the works but it's on my list.

I have no doubts about the quality of anything by OT or SA, that's not in question. I also love the idea of drier libraries from SA (I did get the LCO strings and like their sound). I'm just not sure that the Inspire will add much that I don't already have. However, if I was looking for a starting library I don't think I could go past it. TO seems to offer something different to what I already have in the sketch department. It seems quite flexible for a tool of that sort and I could see it helping/saving time.

Thinking logically/clinically, BH could be added to a Wishlist and wait for the next sale. SA seem to be doing them semi-regular and I don't think I'm going to miss having it before the next one (I guess the sale policy could change). TO is not at a special intro price, so could wait for a sale. OT, as you say rarely have sales. If it's something you need then Inspire should probably be a get now and the intro price looks quite fair.


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## iMovieShout (Jul 4, 2017)

Just taken the plunge on Sonuscore The Orchestra and Trinity Drums. Now looking forward to lots more sleepless nights whilst playing around and learning how to use these new additions


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## moosethree (Aug 8, 2017)

Update options: Step sequencer, midi drag n drop, add extended instruments, crossfading between patches in a multiple
Er I mean update suggestions


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## sostenuto (Aug 8, 2017)

moosethree said:


> Update options: Step sequencer, midi drag n drop, add extended instruments, crossfading between patches in a multiple



Update where ?? Looked at Site, did not see ..


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## Steve Martin (Aug 8, 2017)

moosethree said:


> Update options: Step sequencer, midi drag n drop, add extended instruments, crossfading between patches in a multiple


Hi there Moosethree - are you saying there is an update? so with midi drag n drop - I'm not sure what that means, but I'm guessing that if you like some pattern you do, that means you can work out what TO is doing, and re-create the actual score, so if you create something in TO, you are able to then score it out for a real one. Is that correct?

thanks if you can fill me in with some info here,

best,

steve


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## moosethree (Aug 8, 2017)

Just options for them to consider to add value....suggestions would have been better wording......but it got attention!


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## Vovique (Aug 10, 2017)

A new Orchestra Engine tutorial available:


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## Vastman (Aug 10, 2017)

More vids like this are much appreciated... The engine is full of tricks to carve out amazing themes and ideas. 

Still feel this and Novo have opened doors to many who want to add orchestral flavors to their compositions


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## wbacer (Aug 10, 2017)

To better learn how "The Orchestra" works, I downloaded the midi file that goes along with their Demo Walkthrough.
"Stealing the Medallion" - Working with Keyswitch Articulations -
You can find the demo video and midi file on YouTube.

I recreated the setup they used in the video.
"The Orchestra" instruments sound great in and of themselves without using their "Ensemble Instrument" and the engine modules that contain all of the arpeggiators. IMHO, another big plus for this innovative piece of software.


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## sostenuto (Aug 12, 2017)

Luvin Sonuscore _TO, and wondering about adding _ *Origins Vol.1: Steel Tongue & Sansula *?? 
I recall it was the only addition to TO Intro tracks. About 70 usd right now and hoping it might enhance the already stellar Library.

Thoughts ??


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## wbacer (Aug 12, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Luvin Sonuscore _TO, and wondering about adding _ *Origins Vol.1: Steel Tongue & Sansula *??
> I recall it was the only addition to TO Intro tracks. About 70 usd right now and hoping it might enhance the already stellar Library.
> 
> Thoughts ??


I just purchased the Tongue and Sansula yesterday. It offers a very interesting textural sound that I don't get from any of my other libraries. Nice addition to the Orchestra's core library. I like it. I haven't had a chance to play with it a whole lot but it appears that it should blend in well with my other libraries. For $70 you can't go wrong.


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## Vovique (Oct 21, 2017)

Hey, fellow Orchestra users
How do you feel about the idea of exchanging multis? There are just too few of them in the factory presents, so many of us should've come up with plenty of their owns by now.


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## madfloyd (Oct 21, 2017)

I didn't realize you could save them. Great idea!


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## Oliver (Oct 21, 2017)

great idea! 

BTW i heard back from support that there is an update coming this year!
i am excited!


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## Vovique (Jan 16, 2018)

Good news:


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## Oliver (Jan 16, 2018)

great


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## Sopranos (Jan 16, 2018)

Nice! Where do we get the update?


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## sostenuto (Jan 16, 2018)

Hmmmmm ...... purchased thru Audio Deluxe _ Best Service.de, so will watch with interest.
THX for heads-up !


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## Vovique (Jan 16, 2018)

Sopranos said:


> Nice! Where do we get the update?


 It will be out at around NAMM time, they should post it on bestservice.de


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## PeterN (Jan 27, 2018)

Yea, still no update email, but theres info of this update on their website. Maybe mail coming soon, seems like no-one got this update installed yet...


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## Oliver (Jan 28, 2018)

where do you see that info on their website??


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## PeterN (Jan 28, 2018)

Hey Oliver,

Yea, ...where did I see this info, cant find it anymore. It was not here on this forum - so I had this memory thing, that it was their website. Thats ab 4 days ago. Mentioning how they have upgraded functions, new patterns, and such. But its not there, anymore, if it was there. Sry.  Maybe someone else seen it.


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## PeterN (Jan 28, 2018)

I think it was this one, so it wasnt the website.

https://www.kvraudio.com/news/best-...v1-1-and-chris-hein-solo-strings-update-39955

(Btw...also, I sort of opened the thread again hoping some new info here, unsure if others had got some update info mail. Seems like everyone still waiting.)


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## Oliver (Jan 28, 2018)

PeterN said:


> I think it was this one, so it wasnt the website.
> 
> https://www.kvraudio.com/news/best-...v1-1-and-chris-hein-solo-strings-update-39955
> 
> (Btw...also, I sort of opened the thread again hoping some new info here, unsure if others had got some update info mail. Seems like everyone still waiting.)



thx for the info! waiting... :-D


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## Nuno (Feb 27, 2018)

So..still no update for The Orchestra?


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## SONUSCORE (Feb 27, 2018)

Nuno said:


> So..still no update for The Orchestra?


The update is imminent and with "imminent", we mean really imminent. All owners of "The Orchestra" will be the first to know and receive an email soon.


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## Nuno (Feb 27, 2018)

SONUSCORE said:


> The update is imminent and with "imminent", we mean really imminent. All owners of "The Orchestra" will be the first to know and receive an email soon.



That's great news!!


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## Vovique (Feb 27, 2018)

I have it in my Bestservice user area, just click "Create download links" and you'll see Orchestra 1.1 rars


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## Sopranos (Feb 27, 2018)

Is there a list of the new presets/patches/multis? Any way to tell which are the new ones?

Cheers!


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## Sopranos (Feb 28, 2018)

Anything?


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## madfloyd (Feb 28, 2018)

What do you mean 'anything'. The update is out.


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## Sopranos (Feb 28, 2018)

Is there a list of the new presets/patches/multis? Any way to tell which are the new ones?


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## SONUSCORE (Mar 1, 2018)

Sopranos said:


> Is there a list of the new presets/patches/multis? Any way to tell which are the new ones?


Hi, yes there is. Please find it attached.


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## zimm83 (Mar 1, 2018)

Man..... loving the orchestra sooooooo much. And the legatos are also really really good. Must mention that.


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## Sopranos (Mar 1, 2018)

I agree - this is magnificent. Enjoying the new patches!


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## zimm83 (Mar 4, 2018)

Sopranos said:


> I agree - this is magnificent. Enjoying the new patches!


+1


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## procreative (Mar 4, 2018)

Now if this had midi drag/drop this would be the ultimate phrase idea generator...


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## gsilbers (Mar 4, 2018)

procreative said:


> Now if this had midi drag/drop this would be the ultimate phrase idea generator...



+1


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## Steve Martin (Mar 4, 2018)

does Sonuscore provide any midi files for the demo's they have had done for them as Project Sam, Cinematic Studio Strings and VSL have done for some of their demos? I did have a look at some of the youtube channel pieces of music, but couldn't find any. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. I did go to their site and click on the tutorials, but did not find any there. Does anyone know of any? Thanks if you know of some.


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## SONUSCORE (Mar 4, 2018)

Steve Martin said:


> does Sonuscore provide any midi files for the demo's they have had done for them as Project Sam, Cinematic Studio Strings and VSL have done for some of their demos?


Hi Steve,
There is a MIDI-File available that goes along with our demo walkthrough video.
You'll find a download link in the video description here:


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## Steve Martin (Mar 4, 2018)

Hi th


SONUSCORE said:


> Hi Steve,
> There is a MIDI-File available that goes along with our demo walkthrough video.
> You'll find a download link in the video description here:



Hi there,

thanks for that info guys! much appreciated. I'm quite fascinated by this software,and have listened/watched most of the youtube videos. 

best,

Steve


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## SONUSCORE (Aug 3, 2018)

(English)
The update 1.1.1. fixes an error which in some cases could lead to instability when editing notes in the sequencer and is recommended for all users. This is a free update for all existing “The Orchestra” users. New customers will automatically receive the latest version.

Please note: For the update you need the 1.1.version. You cannot update directly from 1.0.

Available on:
https://www.bestservice.com/news/the_orchestra_1_1_1_released.html

(Deutsch)
Das Update 1.1.1. behebt einen Fehler, welcher in einigen Fällen zu Instabilität bei der Bearbeitung von Noten im Sequenzer führen konnte und wird allen Nutzern empfohlen. Dies ist ein kostenloses Update für alle bestehenden "The Orchestra"-Nutzer. Neukunden erhalten automatisch die neueste Version.

Bitte beachten Sie: Für das Update benötigen Sie die Version 1.1. Sie können nicht direkt von der Version 1.0 auf die aktuelle 1.1.1 Version updaten.

Das Update ist hier erhältlich:
https://www.bestservice.de/news/the_orchestra_1_1_1_erhaeltlich.html


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## sostenuto (Aug 3, 2018)

Many thanks for ongoing Support !!! Terrific library purchased back at Intro.

No doubt you are working on great new things ..... 
PLZ consider some thing like current OT (_addition /enhancement /expansion_) for BO-I 1. Looks like this might even extend to BO-I 3 and further. 

Would be exciting to know there may be: Sonuscore _ The Orchestra 2 ..... 3 .....


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## Rob Elliott (Aug 3, 2018)

Is there a 'midi file drag' functions with this library?


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## dougj7 (Aug 3, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> Is there a 'midi file drag' functions with this library?


No, but it's a most requested feature. Maybe in a future update.


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## idematoa (Feb 24, 2019)

*The Orchestra + SSE






*


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