# Finally! A Kirk Hunter forum!



## Chrislight (Aug 15, 2004)

This is pretty exciting seeing that Kirk Hunter is going to be releasing his string library soon! 

Nice forum btw.


----------



## Frederick Russ (Aug 19, 2004)

We noticed that Kirk Hunter doesn't have a forum - only an empty link to a forum. Perhaps he could use this one?


----------



## Niah (Aug 20, 2004)

Even the official site seems kind of dead. 
Does anyone has some information about their products?
I would love to hear some demos.


----------



## Niah (Aug 20, 2004)

wow! I've just visited the official site, it seems that has been some radical changes since the last time I was there. 
From what I am reading this library is huge in GB but the price is quite reasonable. 
It also features some concert-hall ambience like most libraries now. But I didn't any info about kontakt or halion It seems that's only targeted to the giga format. 
Not quite what you were expecting, right Frederick?

btw, I'm very excited by the idea that you get solo strings and chamber strings with the package.


----------



## Frederick Russ (Aug 20, 2004)

You know, it would be great if the sample library developers would consider going to a virtual instruments format like GPO or EWQLSO - no sampler required


----------



## Niah (Aug 21, 2004)

Absolutly, VST is the future. It is so much easier to work with...

But back to the library - 180gb for $990? It just seems to good to be true, can't wait for the demos.


----------



## todo10 (Aug 21, 2004)

yep - the only thing is the giga-only format - might be a little harrowing for mac users


----------



## Mike M (Aug 24, 2004)

$995 for 180GB of samples sounds like a hell of a deal. I just wish there were demos to help do the hard sell so guys like me can convince their better half that its a good idea too! :?


----------



## Niah (Aug 25, 2004)

Yea demos are really important, it could just be 180gb of crap ehhehe
altought and don't believe so.
But patience my friend, demos are on the way.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 11, 2004)

I still don't understand why anyone buys his libaries. It all sounds horrible - but apparently plenty of people can't hear that... !? I wonder if he even did new recordings for this new library - it sounds to me like he is still layering 10 identical solo violins or something like that on top of each other. It sounds phased, chorused and truly unrealistic. And it's funny that all his new recordings have this characteristic to them. The brass was terrible as well. I couldn't tell much difference between his horns and his trombones. Something's fishy here - I don't believe anything he says about where he recorded, who he recorded and how much he recorded. I believe most stuff is being generated in post production. He also posted a REAL violinist playing as a demo for his solo strings library once. Totally uncredible.

So... I don't understand what your interest in his libraries is - except that it carries a low pricetag. Sure, you can get 200gb of crap for $999 if you want to, you can get 20 GB of nice stuff (SI Strings) for the same price. Or even get the old Roland stuff, or VSL. Much better than this.


----------



## lux (Oct 11, 2004)

Simon _dixit_






...seriously, I cant judge based on demos, they seem too much washed in reverb, so dunno how samples sound.

About the postproduction issue, i had the same impression, but honestly, i should play a patch to say something about strings sound. Now is too early to judge for me.

Luca


----------



## Frederick Russ (Oct 11, 2004)

Personally I think they should lose the PCM90 verb and allow potential users to really hear their products without all the window dressing. Its only fair - not only that - its good business.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 11, 2004)

The reverb is not the problem :?


----------



## Leandro Gardini (Oct 11, 2004)

Definitively the problem is not the reverb , neither EQ or everything...the problem is the terrible quality of the samples that kirk always provide to us!!!

And it?s not even the recording quality issue...also , I think he always rent bad players with their bad quality intruments in order to save some money!!!


----------



## Frederick Russ (Oct 11, 2004)

Simon Ravn said:


> The reverb is not the problem :?



Well that is a problem then.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 11, 2004)

I wonder if he uses new players at all. I dont know how he manages to come up with this sound. It is truly a mystery to me - but clearly theres a lot of layering of samples going on.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 11, 2004)

Frederick said:


> Simon Ravn said:
> 
> 
> > The reverb is not the problem :?
> ...



The material. I dont know where he records - certainly doesn't sound like concert halls. I mean - he could be recording in his bathroom and it would sound like this. Also, I don't believe he uses professional players either. And when he does his "22 violins ensemble" or whatever, he probably recorded 3 or 4 violins and stacked them 5+ times. Then the next question is: how does he makes violins sound nothing like violins and cellos nothing like cellos? Well he must be doing all this post production. EQ and what-not on top of the layering. Are his cellos even cellos? or are they pitched down violins? I can't really tell... It's so scary. Also, his initial trombones for the brass library sounded more or less identical to the horns - just with the attack cut off. Again, I wonder what the hell is going on. But I doubt we'll ever get the truth from Kirk.

EDIT: oh sorry, read it as "what is the problem then"


----------



## lux (Oct 11, 2004)

Simon Ravn said:


> The material. I dont know where he records - certainly doesn't sound like concert halls. I mean - he could be recording in his bathroom and it would sound like this. Also, I don't believe he uses professional players either. And when he does his "22 violins ensemble" or whatever, he probably recorded 3 or 4 violins and stacked them 5+ times. Then the next question is: how does he makes violins sound nothing like violins and cellos nothing like cellos? Well he must be doing all this post production. EQ and what-not on top of the layering. Are his cellos even cellos? or are they pitched down violins?



well...if true, it will be very difficult to hide to average sized ears...and out there there are lot of "big sized" ears.
It would be a big hazard :shock: 

let's see...


----------



## Frederick Russ (Oct 11, 2004)

LOL - I find it odd that Kirk's front men are so hypersensitive to criticism that they lash out at the very people that could keep them in business: customers. Telling them they are wrong and calling them stupid won't increase their sales - just my opinion.


----------



## lux (Oct 11, 2004)

Frederick said:


> LOL - I find it odd that Kirk's front men are so hypersensitive to criticism that they lash out at the very people that could keep them in business: customers. Telling people they are wrong and calling them stupid won't increase their sales - just my opinion.



yeah, its a common issue with many developers.... :( 
Thats why Marteen and others grow up constantly, they listen to customers...


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 11, 2004)

Who are Kirk's front men?


----------



## Frederick Russ (Oct 11, 2004)

Peter Alexander and someone called Kretek (on NS.)


----------



## lux (Oct 11, 2004)

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23303&page=17&pp=10 (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/sho ... e=17&amp;pp=10)


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 11, 2004)

Ah yes.. I read Peter A's posts - funny. But I guess he's just doing marketing, regardless of the product...


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 11, 2004)

but Simon....how do you really feel?


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 11, 2004)

Craig I thought it was pretty obvious? :D


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 11, 2004)

Last time I mentioned the less than perfect quality of KH samples, I got 2 negative feedbacks (NS silly rating system) in less than an hour.
To be objective, I still love KHSS romantic violin and the amount of articulations included in KHSS.
On the flip side, one has to definetely spend some time in the mix trying to fix the poor sound of his libraries; not systematically, but more often that with libraries from competitors. I know KH tried to fix the loading time issue but the size of the solo strings made it very tedious to load.
Maybe not an issue anymore with GS3? (which I am not getting until bug reports go down to reasonable)
KH has been told many times that he should consider better recording conditions/engineer for his products but I'm not sure he is listening.
Shame, considering the time invested in editing all those articulations...


----------



## Leandro Gardini (Oct 11, 2004)

Now Peter is arguing at NS that the demos were made quickly...I don?t know what he?s thinking about the consumers but only an stupid guy would believe that none of the beta-tester had enough time to work on those demos all these months we are waiting...
...Sometimes I think Kirk even does not rent players , he just rent some bad intruments and play by himself all the articulations in his room...I think everybody with some orchestration knowledge could do that and maybe this is what we are facing now!!!

It?s soooo terrible :shock: !!!


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 11, 2004)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> KH has been told many times that he should consider better recording conditions/engineer for his products but I'm not sure he is listening.
> Shame, considering the time invested in editing all those articulations...



That costs money. To hire pro players, pro engineer, pro studio/hall. So I doubt he'll do that


----------



## choc0thrax (Oct 11, 2004)

I think Kirk needs to record some real string sections playing a demo and then pretend it was done with samples like he did with his violins demo. With a lot of people banned from NS noone left would notice. I like Peter A's thing about the library being like 100gb and a steal cause it's only $399.00. And his snooze and you lose comment was quite funny. I also got a negative rating in one of Kirks threads and I didn't even say anything bad. Oh and the Kretek guy I wouldn't be surprised if that was Kirk.


----------



## Niah (Oct 11, 2004)

I was really hoping this to be a good library, especially because of the solo and chamber strings which is something I'm really lacking of...and for 399$ I thought was gonna be a sweet sweet deal.

But I guess I'll have to keep looking because from the demos I've heard, it sounds more like pads than real strings and for that we all have atmosphere.

Heck, even the acoustic strings in atmosphere sound better than this.

Also, I will not comment to the posts of the KH team on NS because the posts just speak for themselfs.


----------



## TheoKrueger (Oct 11, 2004)

The new demo's are indeed dissapointing, the reverb is terrible ( too much delay and decay ) and it seems that no expression controllers are present . 
I blame the demo makers, not the library . I hope the lib is good.


----------



## Leandro Gardini (Oct 11, 2004)

The beta-testers made a huge effort (I?m sure) , the library is awful!!!


----------



## choc0thrax (Oct 11, 2004)

Hehe yeah I also think Atmosphere has better strings. For the same price as Kirks strings you can get Atmosphere's strings and an enormous pile of other sounds.


----------



## Leandro Gardini (Oct 11, 2004)

:D !!!


----------



## A_Witt (Oct 12, 2004)

removed for Hans


----------



## lux (Oct 12, 2004)

no processes. You made your point well and freely. That's why this place looks better than others, imho.

Luca


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 12, 2004)

Some of the posts made here were overly negative but I still stand by what I have said.
I doubt I will be loosing work over it. 
I agree that before posting negative comments, one has to realize how damaging it can be to a developper.
Demos alone are not enough to make an educated jugement about a library but they certainly help. If I am a developper and I have a few demos that I think don't represent a library in an accurate way, I just wouldn't post them. Makes sense, doesn't it? 
I wish KH the best with his libraries. 
Hopefully, some of the points made here can help improve the quality of his future products...


----------



## CJ (Oct 12, 2004)

A Witt - I'm kind of on the outside of this debate but just wanted to let you know that I wouldn't take some of the things said here and elsewhere personally. I have a tremendous amount of respect for your compositional and midi-mockup skills. This also isn't about Peter's credibility or as a personal attack against him as I have great respect for his abilities as well.

However, telling potential customers that they are consistently wrong, and of course Kretek coming in and telling everyone they are stupid and on agendas, while Peter is telling us to buy their product isn't convincing me to fork over my hard-earned dough, sorry. I haven't been on the debate personally, but have read the thread at Northern. I cannot say if the KH Strings is a good product or not, because I can't tell by the demos (who could with all that reverb?)

I was actually excited about the new KH library but with this fiasco by Kretek (I still suspect he is part of the KH team) I sincerely doubt I will ever buy this library. If Kretek is NOT part of the KH team I would suggest you have a talk with him because in my eyes he is effectively destroying KH's credibility and image.

Peace,

CJ


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 12, 2004)

Ashley,

I can see why you make a good moderator, and i think you would also make a great front end to any sampler company needing someone to deal with the public.

One of the reasons I like this new forum is that people are allowed to say what they want. Hopefully that won't change. I'm sure there will be some nasty spats down the road because of this policy, but things usually work themselves out. People who have forums have the right to run them anyway they see fit. The heads at NS have decided they want their forum run a certain way and Frederick, to this point has been hands off. I appreciate both approaches.

On the point of being mute is what really hurts sample library companies, i don't feel that is the point here. This is a forum and people wish to express themselves, for what ever reason. I give the reader more credit to who he should listen to or not. Some people just need to express themselves, while others feel it is their duty to help whether that help is by approving or dissaproving of a product. I think it is rare when the poster approves or dissaproves of a product for purely personal reasons aimed at a developer. I think those kind of posts people can generally read through.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Oct 12, 2004)

Frederick said:


> LOL - I find it odd that Kirk's front men are so hypersensitive to criticism that they lash out at the very people that could keep them in business: customers. Telling them they are wrong and calling them stupid won't increase their sales - just my opinion.




Well, Frederick, let me point out that our alleged "hypersensitivity" has to do with comments made about test demos that we had not formally announced were ready. You in particular have been making comments about hearing the demos without reverb, when it's clearly posted in the Classical Snippets section that when posted, there will be a "dry" version (meaning no outside reverb added) and several examples of different reverb types. 

When you persist in posting your opinion, while ignoring what's been posted on the site and in the Northern Sounds forum, then yes, there's going to be a response. 

I've also responded forthrightly to those who ask for "quick" demos, and then when they're made available, rather than accept them for what they are, first demos, immediately are trashed. There is a long history of this for all the libraries.

The classical snippets were specifically created to answer the customer request for orchestral sample library producers to do classical mock-ups that could be compared to the score. We did this, and selected specific examples showing techniques used in classical, film and pop recordings, that demonstrates that Kirk's library is for all genre. These techniques represent using dense 6-, 7-, and 8-part vertical harmony, which in other libraries has created what's known as the "organ effect." This effect does not appear in Kirk's strings at all. 

For reverb, we made certain that the demos were done dry, with reverb that accompanies sequencing programs, with a reverb package you might purchase (here, Waves TruVerb), and a hardware unit, here the Lexicon PCM 90.

No other library has ever done this.

Certainly there will be more demos, but our efforts now are finishing the editing, compressing the files and getting the DVDs to duplication.

On a Giga format, which by the way, imports SUPERBLY into Kontakt, for the pre-release price of $399, a customer is getting a basic set of solo strings, close mic, far mic and distant mic positions. Every position has the complete ensembles, both open and muted, plus chamber strings, both open and muted. This is one of the most complete string libraries ever, and just with the muted strings, is more complete than any other string library on the market. 

With the addition of the Distant Strings, the library size has expanded to nearly 100GB. By comparison, to get this size content with another library, you'd have to spend just under $3000US, and that other library only has one mic position. 

Price, content, and ease of import satisfies many customer requests, as does our easy naming conventions that eliminates the need for a thick manual. 

If you have any questions or need clarification on any points about Kirk's Concert Strings, please call my cell at 310-384-7271.

Thanks.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Oct 12, 2004)

CJ said:


> A Witt - I'm kind of on the outside of this debate but just wanted to let you know that I wouldn't take some of the things said here and elsewhere personally. I have a tremendous amount of respect for your compositional and midi-mockup skills. This also isn't about Peter's credibility or as a personal attack against him as I have great respect for his abilities as well.
> 
> However, telling potential customers that they are consistently wrong, and of course Kretek coming in and telling everyone they are stupid and on agendas, while Peter is telling us to buy their product isn't convincing me to fork over my hard-earned dough, sorry. I haven't been on the debate personally, but have read the thread at Northern. I cannot say if the KH Strings is a good product or not, because I can't tell by the demos (who could with all that reverb?)
> 
> ...



As I pointed out in my response to Frederick, these demos weren't announced. They were test demos for our purposes only. Your point about the reverb misrepresents our intent because if you read what I had posted on Kirk's site, you'd have seen that we clearly plan to post multiple versions of the same demo with different reverb's including a dry version (meaning no outside reverb added) when we make our announcement. 

When I read unfair comments made when people have clearly not read the text to understand what we're doing and attempting, and what's ready and what isn't, then yes, I'm going to say something, because I have a major investment to protect, and because comments are being made out of context that does impact buyer perceptions. 

There's plenty to be excited about with Kirk's library. I own all the major libraries, and Concert Strings does things no other library can do. But if you don't want to buy it, that's certainly your decision.


----------



## DonnieChristian (Oct 13, 2004)

Peter Alexander said:


> Frederick said:
> 
> 
> > LOL - I find it odd that Kirk's front men are so hypersensitive to criticism that they lash out at the very people that could keep them in business: customers. Telling them they are wrong and calling them stupid won't increase their sales - just my opinion.
> ...




Wrong. All of my percussion demos have no reverb or anything else


----------



## Peter Alexander (Oct 13, 2004)

DonnieChristian said:


> Peter Alexander said:
> 
> 
> > Frederick said:
> ...



You misread what I stated. I said that no other library had posted examples dry and with different reverbs on the same demos,


----------



## Frederick Russ (Oct 13, 2004)

Sincere thanks for posting Peter, and welcome to V.I. Control! I wish it were under better circumstances, but irregardless its nice seeing you here!

I think its a given regarding people's respect of Kirk Hunter Solo Strings. There have been many supportive posts regarding that here. However if you look closer at my previous posts either here or at NS, I never took issue with the new samples of KH Concert Strings nor the quality of your work as an orchestrator nor the abilities of those used to do the midi-mockups. 

The only thing I personally really had issue with was about the use of the PCM90 on the demos - not the samples themselves. However because this was mentioned on NS some of us appeared to be transformed into targets instead of customers, Peter. You've already explained why in your response to me on NS, about others and my inability to read, how we were wrong and how Kretek (associate of yours?) insinuated that I and others like me were on an "agenda" and essentially stupid: "the Darwin awards are given to really stupid people" after his diatribe of insulting many of the NS readers as having limited reading comprehension skills. 

Do you really think these tactics sell sample libraries? The only "agenda" I was on was to possibly buy your product. To me, the stupid question is the one that isn't asked, especially when it concerns making an investment. People ask seemingly stupid questions all the time at car dealerships, and end up driving off with the $40,000 Lexus when the sales person was patient enough to answer each objection without taking criticism of the product personally. 

Sales 101 says that each objection is not necessarily a no. But its up to the one in sales to transform that no into a yes. The customer may be wrong factually, but its up to the one in sales to let them know that they are on their side, not by making them "wrong" to win an argument thus losing the sale but to consider more win-win solutions. I was a national sales director in a separate industry - a position I earned twelve years ago. I'm trying to help - not hurt - you.

I have appreciated some of your responses regarding your library. I sincerely wish you the best in selling it. And again, I truly offer my most sincere condolences for the passing of your father. Tough times! I lost my father last year so I do understand and can empathize.

Sincerely,


----------



## Chrislight (Oct 13, 2004)

Thanks Frederick for putting this in perspective and getting to the heart of the matter. Insulting potential customers' intelligence is definitely not the way to win business. I read that posting on NS, and I am not sure what the connection is, but I certainly wouldn't want this individual representing my product. That kind of stuff can have the effect of driving people away in droves - no matter how good your product is.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Oct 13, 2004)

I bought the Kirk Hunter Flute disc. That was the last disc that I have ordered from him. 

Although not expensive, it was the disc I have ditched faster than any other sample disc. Absolutely unusable, bad recording, bad editing, fake ambience, fake ensemble (same samples stacked), etc etc. The entire product is an inflated balloon of, well, nothing instrumental, only warm air.

I ordered it spite of my ideas about all of Kirk's mediocre demo's. 

Since most KH string demos cannot live up to today's standards, please let's switch to another topic. There are more than enough better competitive products.


----------



## Leandro Gardini (Oct 13, 2004)

:D !!!


----------



## todo10 (Oct 13, 2004)

OT Admin Note: AW, you will find your post in Off Topics under "Mild Rant, AW" - I had to split the thread because your post had nothing to do with the KH Concert Strings Thread. Thanks!


----------



## Aaron Sapp (Oct 13, 2004)

Leo, stop with the !!!'s already.  In the english language, that gets a bit monotonous and annoying rather quick.

Don't say 500 bucks is more to you than to Americans... it sucks for us just as much as it does for you. 8) I've spent $800 on two libraries that I NEVER use, and I do too regret it to this day - but I'm afraid that's the nature of the beast - and it's not like I'm loaded either! - I had to make purchases with a busboy/biscuit boy/waiter/host job. I don't want to know how much money professional composers have wasted in the last 10 or so years on libraries they never use anymore. I'm sure it's much more than we've spent on libraries that WE use. 

Yes, I admit the Kirk Hunter brass wasn't much, but geesh... acquire yourself a little tact. One Simon gives us our fill already, let alone two. Most of your posts are not constructive - they're just mindless rants. Just because we now have the luxury of being able to speak our mind doesn't mean you should strip and streak across the dinner table. I'm sure you mean well, but you certainly don't come off that way.


----------



## Leandro Gardini (Oct 14, 2004)

OK , you are right :D ...I?m going to remove the post and look for my girlfriend to make some love ,haha :shock: !!!


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 14, 2004)

"Yes, I admit the Kirk Hunter brass wasn't much, but geesh... acquire yourself a little tact. One Simon gives us our fill already, let alone two. Most of your posts are not constructive - they're just mindless rants. Just because we now have the luxury of being able to speak our mind doesn't mean you should strip and streak across the dinner table. I'm sure you mean well, but you certainly don't come off that way"

I agree Aaron. I also think if someone is unhappy with a product, it is important for them to voice their opinion so others are at least warned of a potential pitfall.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Oct 15, 2004)

Craig Sharmat said:


> "Yes, I admit the Kirk Hunter brass wasn't much, but geesh... acquire yourself a little tact. One Simon gives us our fill already, let alone two. Most of your posts are not constructive - they're just mindless rants. Just because we now have the luxury of being able to speak our mind doesn't mean you should strip and streak across the dinner table. I'm sure you mean well, but you certainly don't come off that way"
> 
> I agree Aaron. I also think if someone is unhappy with a product, it is important for them to voice their opinion so others are at least warned of a potential pitfall.



On the other hand, SOS in the UK gave the Kirk Hunter Brass a 5-Star review.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 15, 2004)

SOS gives 5-star ratings to almost everything... some of the reviewers must be deaf, or simply don't have the skills/abilities to judge how these samples will work in a composition situation in the style(s) the library was intended for.


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 15, 2004)

Peter Alexander said:


> Craig Sharmat said:
> 
> 
> > "Yes, I admit the Kirk Hunter brass wasn't much, but geesh... acquire yourself a little tact. One Simon gives us our fill already, let alone two. Most of your posts are not constructive - they're just mindless rants. Just because we now have the luxury of being able to speak our mind doesn't mean you should strip and streak across the dinner table. I'm sure you mean well, but you certainly don't come off that way"
> ...



Peter,

my quote had nothing to do with any library in particular, but was my general view on forum behavior.


----------



## Niah (Oct 15, 2004)

Hey Peter Ross, thank god you tell us that because I was considering of buying that KH flute =)


----------



## Peter Alexander (Oct 15, 2004)

Simon Ravn said:


> SOS gives 5-star ratings to almost everything...



No, they don't.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Oct 15, 2004)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Peter Alexander said:
> 
> 
> > Craig Sharmat said:
> ...



OK. Nonetheless, with the concerted bashing that Kirk is seeming to get, I felt it only fair to point to a posted review in a professional international publication that was stating the opposite of those bashing Kirk.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Oct 15, 2004)

Simon Ravn said:


> Frederick said:
> 
> 
> > Simon Ravn said:
> ...



Simon, so many misstatements from you it's hard to know where to begin. So rather than correct this nonsensical abuse of yours, perhaps in light of the omniscient wisdom and world sampling view you demonstrate so avidly, perhaps you'd grace us with a list of the orchestral sample libraries you have personally:

1. produced
2. recorded
3. edited
4. released for commercial use
5. how many you sold

An answer to this would certainly put your comments into a realistic professional perspective.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 15, 2004)

Peter Alexander said:


> Simon Ravn said:
> 
> 
> > Frederick said:
> ...



I have only done one (together with a few fellow composers. And this library, which will not be commercially available, sounds a hell of a lot better than everything from Kirk Hunter, and most other libraries for that matter. This is too good to sell

Come on Peter - you're out to sell Kirk's library. Of course you're not gonna admit that the material is more or less useless, unless it was the only library available on the market today. Can you tell me how come it sounds so phased and layered? And why does all of his strings sound the same no matter where they are recorded and who plays the instruments? And what on earth is going on in post production, because his instruments sound out of this world.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 15, 2004)

Simon Ravn said:


> because his instruments sounds out of this world.


 :D :D 
Finally! I knew you guys would come to an understanding at the end!

Come on now, kiss and make up :oops:


----------



## Peter Alexander (Oct 15, 2004)

" Of course you're not gonna admit that the material is more or less useless..."

Horse manure. 

I'm intimately involved with the whole process of Concert Strings. And before I agreed to take it own, I did my own beta testing to see how the library would stand compared to others based on musical excerpts from the classics and film scores I possess from private sources. 

If I didn't think it was worth it, I wouldn't have wasted my time. 

But point in fact, this library works fantastically. It pulls off passages no other library can. 

So for you to say it's useless, Simon, and I'll use a softer politically correct term, is a blatant misstatement. It's obvious that you have a motive to trash everything about Kirk because it comes out in virtually every post.


----------



## Aaron Sapp (Oct 15, 2004)

I've heard Simons new orchestral library he recorded along with several other composers - it's by far the best sounding orchestral samples I've heard to date! If he decided to sell it (which he won't of course), I'm positive he would outsell any other library on the market - I feel that strongly about his new stuff - and it's not even that comprehensive! - it's the SOUND that is so impressive. Shiat, if ONLY developers took the same approach, the world would be a more beautiful place... at least my world. :lol:


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 15, 2004)

Having said that, I just took a listen to the new KH string demos - and they don't sound as bad as all the other stuff I have heard, granted! No phasing problems in these sustains. Some of the staccatos still have that though. And the pizzicatos are dreadful - isn't this supposed to be far mics in a hall? Sounds like a closet to me.

The demos of his Concert Series Strings is what I have heard latest (he had a ton of demos up, now they are gone?). I heard sordinos demos, different sized string ensembles demos etc - were those all from Concert Strings or from the new set? THEY were HORRIBLE... like the brass.... This new stuff sounds indefinitely better, at least the sustains! So maybe there is hope.


----------



## Herman Witkam (Oct 15, 2004)

Aaron Sapp said:


> I've heard Simons new orchestral library he recorded along with several other composers - it's by far the best sounding orchestral samples I've heard to date!



Simon, have you done demos with it already? I'm curious.


----------



## choc0thrax (Oct 15, 2004)

I've heard Simons self done orchestral library and it makes me cry. I don't know why his library sounds much better than the commercial libraries but it does.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 15, 2004)

I can't take credit for the library alone. There are 7 other composers (most of which you know well) attached to the library, but thanks anyway


----------



## Alan Lastufka (Oct 15, 2004)

choc0thrax said:


> I don't know why his library sounds much better than the commercial libraries but it does.



I haven't heard it exclusively, but I have heard it mixed in with some other libs on mIRC postings but I can venture to guess why you prefer the sound.

1. Commercial releases tend to be normalized. This takes away any sense of the notes being played by humans.

2. Commercial releases tend to be noise-reduced and pitch-corrected. This degrades the original audio signal and makes things a little too perfect.

3. Commercial release have all the subtle noises and mistakes taken out that again removes the human element.

4. Commercial releases tend to be EQ'ed which removes the color and unique qualities from the lib.

That said. I haven't heard the Kirk Hunter demos and sorry for the OT post, just wanted to respond to Choco, feel free to move if need be Frederick.

Lastly, I did none of the above to any of my previous and will not do the above to any future LastLibs releases.


----------



## Herman Witkam (Oct 15, 2004)

The funny thing is, in the end you start putting in these noises because they simply aren't there. I personally like my libraries messy with lots of ambience


----------



## Sid_Barnhoorn (Oct 15, 2004)

lol... Hear, hear, Herman... :wink:


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 15, 2004)

Herman,

I have 3 songs on this site which use some of the lib in them. I would construct the patches as I needed them so the cues are a hydbrid between it and commercial libs. I did these months ago as the lib was in raw form and I was a poor programmer (i'm a little better now).


http://www.scoredog.tv/Spuds%20Dissonance%20VSL.mp3

http://www.scoredog.tv/French%20Cafe.mp3

http://www.scoredog.tv/Kiddie%20Monster.mp3


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 15, 2004)

The "Ghost Showreel 2004" at my site (www.simonravn.com) uses violins and cellos from it as well as trumpets. Some day maybe I'll do a demo only using that stuff.


----------



## Herman Witkam (Oct 15, 2004)

Simon: Where were the recordings done, and how high-end was the gear involved (it sounds pretty well recorded, as far as I can judge from mp3). Is it neccesary to run the signal thru Avalon preamps and Apogee converters? 
Craig: I've heard Spud's Dissonance before, but I didn't realise there were any custom samples used. They sure blend pretty good.


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 15, 2004)

Herman,

we'd love to tell, but who ever gives info away will be hung by his balls.

I only used some strings in Spud's dissonance....the string glisses, pizz and all other instruments are VSL.


----------



## Frederick Russ (Oct 16, 2004)

Craig Sharmat said:


> Herman,
> 
> I have 3 songs on this site which use some of the lib in them. I would construct the patches as I needed them so the cues are a hydbrid between it and commercial libs. I did these months ago as the lib was in raw form and I was a poor programmer (i'm a little better now).
> 
> ...



Pretty great testament to the Prague library! :shock: Everyone of these are really well done, Craig! *Of course you knew that privately - just thought it deserved public mention*


----------



## Frederick Russ (Oct 16, 2004)

Interesting thread....

Peter, so far I've been rather impressed with the sound of KH Solo Violin, which is why I've been kind of holding out hoping that the mp3s surrounding KH Concert Strings could improve so I could make an informed decision - not one based on opinions found either here or elsewhere but on the actual sound of the library itself. For me personally the jury is still out so to speak because even the best libraries can sound pretty awful when too much reverb is applied.

Peter, you mentioned elsewhere a Vaughn Williams mockup using KH Concert Strings. I am very interested in hearing it - either publically or privately. Let me know, thanks.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Oct 16, 2004)

Simon Ravn said:


> The "Ghost Showreel 2004" at my site (www.simonravn.com) uses violins and cellos from it as well as trumpets. Some day maybe I'll do a demo only using that stuff.



Simon,

The violins and trumpets sure do sound great. And there's lots of s p a c e. Couldn't say much about the cellos, as they're not that prominent, to my ears at least. Love your arrangement, as usual, but I'm really not crazy about the drum kit sound and programming - it's a bit too generic.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 16, 2004)

Hey guys, since it is a private library with no intent to distribute, why make it a secret (in it's concept and production). I think we have here a great idea, very interesting to all of us composers that is worth discussing.
Imagine that, composers bypassing developpers to create a lib tailored to their need!
I am very curious so please by any means, share with us. What started the idea, how did you organize the sessions, who edited all the material...etc
A very interesting effort 8)


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 16, 2004)

Patrick,

I hope this does not come off pompous, and you are right, it would make for an interesting conversation, but we signed agreement among ourselves not to discuss details about the lib. I have to stay true as do the others to that deal.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 16, 2004)

No prob Craig. I understand.
But how cruel of you guys to tickle us and then leave us in want.... :roll:

OT: Hey Craig, I signed up for a Scott Smalley 2 day seminar in NY next weekend. You inspired me to go back to studying the way I used to, back in the Berklee years. Thanks


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 16, 2004)

Patrick, you are right ...sorry :( 

While I am enjoying using the the custom lib, I am currently going back to using commercial libs and enjoying it. I believe with all the great stuff commercially available...I get maybe an extra 2% edge by having a custom lib. The writing is what is way more important. Hope you get a lot out of the seminar.


----------



## esperlad (Oct 17, 2004)

I have had good luck with the solo strings, so I ordered the concert strings. 

I will see what happens when I get my copies.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Nov 7, 2004)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Imagine that, composers bypassing developpers to create a lib tailored to their need!



Then that would make you a developer. And not the first. Of course, Hans Zimmer has done this for years. And a year ago a consortium of fellows got together to record some proprietary materials for their own. It's not new, it's just that a budget is required to do it!


----------



## tob (Nov 8, 2004)

Peter Alexander said:


> Patrick de Caumette said:
> 
> 
> > Imagine that, composers bypassing developpers to create a lib tailored to their need!
> ...



It's all about getting tired of the lack of what you really want. That's what made me step into the church and record ambient percussion... there were no ambient (not that ambient) percussion available at that time.

Zimmer recorded his library just because of everything out there sounded really bad.. and he still uses his old samples mixed with new custom samples and public libraries i suppose.

Anyway, still waiting for good demos of the new KH string library. I like the character of the sound and I have a feeling there is lots of ambience in the samples which would be heard if the release was a little bit longer. Will there be release triggers?

/Tobias


----------

