# Cinematique Instruments Disappointment



## Gingham Jones (Mar 5, 2021)

I bought the hammered dulcimer Kontakt library from Cinematique on February 23rd. I was unable to download the full file; it would stop every time between 200-500mb and the file is over 1gb. I contacted customer support the day of purchase. It's March 5th now and I haven't heard back from them. However, I've seen others posting that the instruments are fine so mine is likely an isolated incident. Regardless, it's been 10 days since I contacted support which is ridiculous.

Oddly enough, I received an email in the middle of writing this out. I'd requested a refund but I was asked if the download link works now instead. I haven't tried, I just want my money back. I don't recommend buying from this company.


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## Technostica (Mar 5, 2021)

That's not a scam and you will probably get less sympathy here by presenting the information falsely. 
Sorry to hear about your issue, but try and keep things in perspective. 
Contact them again and ask for a refund again maybe!


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## ism (Mar 5, 2021)

Download issues on a digital purchase aren’t exactly unusual or unexpected. They certainly don’t merit slander a company as a scam.

I don’t recall if I’ve ever had downloading issues with CI, because it’s so common that it would have been completely unremarkable if I had. 

I do like CI though.


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 5, 2021)

You're right it's not a scam, that's an unfair title so I've changed it. I can understand having some downloading issues, even though I've never encountered any so far, but it's the absurd wait time to get some support that is frustrating. What if the download link didn't work after this reply from support? Do I have wait 10 more days for them to try another fix?


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## kevinh (Mar 5, 2021)

I was seeing a similar behavior on another purchase and was pretty frustrating. I then figured out that it was an issue on my end where I was running out of space on my download drive/directory. Oddly the error was not that I ran out of space but it was reported as file download timing out/failing. So this is what created confusion on my side. Try downloading to a new drive/location and see if you observe same behavior.


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 5, 2021)

What's strange is that the download would say it's complete every time, there wasn't any indication of failure until I tried to unzip the file. The download link expires in 7 days from the time of purchase though so I can't test it. I have downloaded from other websites though with no issue.


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## dpasdernick (Mar 6, 2021)

They should refund your money. It would be the right thing to do.


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 7, 2021)

I agree, they should refund my money since I don't have a product. However, this has continued to be a difficult ordeal. I'm going to post my email chain with them:

me: 
Hello, I recently purchased the hammered dulcimer for Kontakt. The transaction ID is **. When I try to download the instrument, it stops between 200mb and 500mb and says the download is finished even though it’s a 1 gb download. I tried contacting support on February 23 and haven’t heard back from them. I would like a refund for the product since the download link is expired at this point. Please let me know if you can do this or send me to someone who can.

Cinematique:
Hey, Does it work now?

me:
I’ve already purchased another hammered dulcimer library and would like my money back.

Cinematique:
Dear Customer,

thank you for your mail.

We are sorry that we have a little delay in our support mails. But now to you.

The question if your download problem was solved had honest intentions and wanted to clarify if the case could be closed. Since you didn't get back to us, we assumed that the download went without a hitch, since all downloads have been working fine for a few days now.

Basically, a return of software is technically not possible at all. How should that be possible? You have already confirmed this in the terms and conditions. Also the problem with downloads, which worked for many other customers, and also the expiration of the link do not fulfill any facts to simply independently buy an instrument somewhere else and demand a refund. We are sorry, but these are behaviors outside of any return policies and legal basis.

Therefore, we have no idea how we could help you now. To be on the safe side, we will send you your account data so that you are theoretically able to download your purchase.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards

--

They did create an account and new download link. I tried kevinh's solution and I downloaded up to 1.1gb this time out of 1.2 before it quit. Along with this, how is a return technically not possible? Sure, there's no physical product, but I also didn't have a way to download the product so there's nothing to return anyway. Why was the first response only to ask if a dead download link worked? Why did I never hear back from the "support" address? It seems highly unlikely anyone else will run into this issue but I'm annoyed and not buying anything else from them. It's 12 days now and I still have no product and no $50.


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## Crowe (Mar 7, 2021)

You seem new to the sample-library world, so let's make this very, very simple.

Refunds do *not* exist here.

No matter what.


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## puremusic (Mar 7, 2021)

I suggest you get yourself a download manager.


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 7, 2021)

I've been messing with VI's for a year, I've just never had an issue. What would a download manager do?


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## puremusic (Mar 7, 2021)

Download managers make sure a file is completely downloaded properly. There are a # of these available out there, some as addons depending on your browser. These help downloading particularly large files that can tend to become incomplete, as well as with large amounts of small file downloads.


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 7, 2021)

I don't see how that would be helpful. I'm downloading via Firefox and it always says 100% complete even though it's not. Worth a shot though, I found one that Mozilla approves for Firefox so let's see how that goes.


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## puremusic (Mar 7, 2021)

Yup it's worth a try, and clear your cache first.


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 7, 2021)

Nope, that still doesn't work however it's downloaded all the way to 1.12gb now so.... progress I guess? I ended up trying 7-Zip instead of Windows' built in extractor and all the files extracted say they're 1kb except DS_Store which says it's 7kb.


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## juliandoe (Mar 8, 2021)

I think the main mistake we make in cases like this one is to not read the terms and service. 
The company that offers a refund/money-back guarantee are few and the problems with the download, malfunction etc happen all the time. The problem can be in several "stops" in the delivery process. Manufacturer uploader, cloud storage and user downloader often have their own server so you can see that a problem is always behind the corner. My only connection with CI is for the free Klang instruments. never had a problem. I think that your main issue is not the library itself but the customer service.


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 8, 2021)

Who the hell reads the terms and services? We'd lose 1/4 of our lifetimes having to scroll through that crap. But yes, TECHNICALLY we should. Yet it's like part of the design is to deter us from reading it. At any rate, yes my issue is with the service. There's no doubt I've been a bit of an ass in this as well, but the person who's emailing me seems more intent on defending the company than fixing the issue. And with how long it takes for him/her to respond, it may well be a month after the purchase date that I might be able to use the software.


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## merlinhimself (Mar 8, 2021)

It's all about perspective, be happy its only 50$, I bought a $200+ library that turned out to be absolutely awful, useless, and misleading in their videos/marketing. Now it sits in a dark corner of my drive, unloved and unwanted, but paid for :/


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## juliandoe (Mar 8, 2021)

merlinhimself said:


> I bought a $200+ library that turned out to be absolutely awful, useless, and misleading in their videos/marketing.


always by Cinematique Instruments?


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## merlinhimself (Mar 8, 2021)

juliandoe said:


> always by Cinematique Instruments?


Nah a different company, but I dont like calling them out, I just dont buy from them anymore.


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 8, 2021)

Things can always be worse sure but if a company is not living up to the consumer's standards then we have every right to take action otherwise we're settling for lesser standards than we expect. In my case, it wasn't fair for me to call this a "scam" as I'd initially made the title and I don't think people should be totally discouraged against the company since it seems most people are very satisfied with their products. But when support is this terrible, I think it's worth bringing attention to. Also it'd be great to find someone who has dealt with a downloading issue like this before because I've never seen anything like it.


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## gzapper (Mar 8, 2021)

I've got a few of their libraries, including the dulcimer. No problems downloading or running them from my end, no problems with customer support. Most of them I bought years ago and don't use as much now, but that's more taste than the products.


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 8, 2021)

That's what makes it even more frustrating!


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## pinki (Mar 8, 2021)

The responses here are just bull. You have been treated like shit and all you get is “it’s tough in the sample world newb“ Unbelievable. Get your money back by threatening them with legal action. They are in Cologne and are subject to strict EU regulations. I am sorry for your appalling treatment. I will never buy from Cinematique Instruments.


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## pinki (Mar 8, 2021)

Shiirai said:


> You seem new to the sample-library world, so let's make this very, very simple.
> 
> Refunds do *not* exist here.
> 
> No matter what.


Not true. Condescending rubbish


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 8, 2021)

It seems weird that refunds would not be a thing. It's very unlikely that EVERY customer can be satisfied because of stupid crap that comes up like the issue I'm having. However, I can see a complication; if I've already received a serial code and a download, can they revoke the product if I want a refund? I don't know how things work on a digital merchant's side so maybe there's a lack of control on their end once a product is purchased. That seems unlikely though, look at Steam, the gaming platform, for instance. Look at Adobe or any other subscription service that let's you download a program and use it so long as you pay. But I've never had a problem with the many VI's I've bought until now so maybe refunds really aren't a thing. Have you received any pinki? Either way, one of the parts that I find the most insulting is that the guy claims a refund isn't possible. I paid them through Paypal so it's very possible, the question is whether he chooses to or not.


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## Crowe (Mar 9, 2021)

Please share with us this mythical VI company that actually provides refunds to unsatisfied customers. They will likely shoot to the very top of favorite developers on this forum immediately.

Seriously, I've been hanging around this forum for years and I've seen this post countless times. I have never, ever, seen any of the non-one-man corporations ever give out a refund for any reason, European or not.

Your aggression is misplaced Pinki.

Also, advising someone to threaten legal action with 'I cannot correctly download this file on my computer' as evidence is insane. Just FYI.


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## Markrs (Mar 9, 2021)

Shiirai said:


> Please share with us this mythical VI company that actually provides refunds to unsatisfied customers. They will likely shoot to the very top of favorite developers on this forum immediately.
> 
> Seriously, I've been hanging around this forum for years and I've seen this post countless times. I have never, ever, seen any of the non-one-man corporations ever give out a refund for any reason, European or not.
> 
> ...


I believe VSL will refund you with 14 days of purchase if you are unhappy with the sample library


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## Crowe (Mar 9, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I believe VSL will refund you with 14 days of purchase if you are unhappy with the sample library


Grumble grumble.

Alright, I'll have to give you that one. I have a blind spot for that company.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Mar 9, 2021)

Most of the time, a companies' job and role is to tell you "no refunds". It doesn't mean that you can't get one. I think @pinki mainly took offense with the usual "suck it up" and "turn the other cheek" mentality that is often perpetuated on VIC.


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## juliandoe (Mar 9, 2021)

I believe that if in the terms and conditions there is no mention of refund/money-back guarantee you have no chance to get a refund. Terms and conditions is a contract that you digitally sign when you click "I agree"

I've also found these statements by other sample library providers:

"Due to the digital nature of our products, we unfortunately cannot offer refunds once you’ve downloaded a library. This is a policy common to most all sample library developers. If you have purchased a product in error and have not yet downloaded it, please contact us and we can take care of it. And as always, if you have any questions about the compatibility, features, capabilities, or limitations of any specific library, please don’t hesitate to ask us before you order!"

"If you have ordered one of our products in error but have yet to download it, please get in touch at support and we can refund the order as long as it is less than 14 days since your purchase.
Once a product has been downloaded, we cannot offer a refund for it." 

so as you can see refund is more an exception rather than the rule.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Mar 9, 2021)

It all depends. You can write all kinds of crap into your GTC, it still doesn't necessarily mean it's legal. Also depends on the region and the local legislature in that regard. For example here in western Europe, there's a law that says you can refund any online purchase within 14 days. So all these sample library GTC are in direct contradiction to that, and it comes down to the place of juristiction. What I'm trying to say is, it's not that clear cut.

And then of course there's all the cases where the GTC say you're not getting a refund, but you end up getting one anyway, depending on how you play it and whether you can get the company to do it. Individual cases and factors.


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## ism (Mar 9, 2021)

Hasn't this been debunked repeatedly?


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 9, 2021)

3DC, I've posted earlier about a few things I did. I have plenty of space on the drive and I've even tried a different drive. Internet is fine, I download things daily. The download instructions are to download it. Thing is, the download manager always displays the file as being 100% downloaded but when I go to extract the files, they're all show a size of 1kb as mentioned in a previous post. Thanks for mentioning that I can dispute it with Paypal too, I'm now doing that.


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## Anders Wall (Mar 10, 2021)

Shiirai said:


> Please share with us this mythical VI company that actually provides refunds to unsatisfied customers. They will likely shoot to the very top of favorite developers on this forum immediately.
> 
> Seriously, I've been hanging around this forum for years and I've seen this post countless times. I have never, ever, seen any of the non-one-man corporations ever give out a refund for any reason, European or not.
> 
> ...


There are a few companies that offers refunds. Realitone, Output and VSL springs to mind.

Re: EU law.
I think it's pretty clear.








Guarantees, cancelling and returning your purchases - Your Europe


How to claim the 2-year guarantee for EU purchases, get a repair, replacement or refund, how to cancel orders made outside shops (online, by phone, mail order).




europa.eu






> 14 day cooling off period​In the EU you have the right to *return purchases made online* *or through other types of distance selling*, such as by phone, mail order or from a door-to-door salesperson, *within 14 days for a full refund*. You can do so for any reason – even if you simply changed your mind.
> 
> The 14-day cooling off period* does not apply to all purchases*. Some of the exemptions are:
> 
> ...



Re: Cinématique Instruments.
I send them a message a few days ago. Didn't notice the "download within 7days" text attached to the upgrade of Autoharp, I thought it would be added to my account... but it wasn't.
I'm sure they'll answer in due time, I think we are spoiled with "instant" customer service and sometimes forgets that a company might only be a one person show 

Cheers,

Anders


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 10, 2021)

Good luck man, make sure you wrote to the [email protected] email. I still haven't received a reply from support. But if it's one guy then I guess there's no reason to respond to both.


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 10, 2021)

Just to close this up, I finally received an email from the "support" address, which is a different person indeed. He said he renewed the download link and suddenly I was able to download it just fine. I don't why or how, but I have the instrument now. I would much have preferred my money back instead of 2 weeks of dealing with incompetent support, but at least I have something to show for the money spent.


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## colony nofi (Mar 10, 2021)

Just a quick difference to note about sample instruments vs purchases.
We are purchasing a license - which has different legal implications vs purchase of a product or service. 
I have had chats a few years ago to folk in the EU, and it is much murkier and more difficult to wade thru the legalese than might be represented here on this board. 

For some interesting reading, check out Valve's changes to its TOS with games purchased in the EU - and how they got around the 14 day period. 

I'm on the fence with this one. The legislation is quite the quagmire - but I wish there were some better protections for users of things like sample libraries / other licensing purchases. I also appreciate things from the business side of things, and realise how other agreements they have made mean it is difficult at best to provide refunds. (Including agreements with players / musicians etc)


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## Gingham Jones (Mar 11, 2021)

That's interesting, more complicated than I imagined. A further note on Cinematique as a company though, I got another email from the support guy and he was very pleasant about the whole thing despite my not-being-so-pleasant. He even offered me a refund on the faith that I would delete the files from my computer. I've been enjoying the instrument though so I refused.


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## Markrs (Mar 11, 2021)

I'm glad to hear this has ended well and you are happy with the library 😊


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## Wally Garten (Mar 12, 2021)

Shiirai said:


> You seem new to the sample-library world, so let's make this very, very simple.
> 
> Refunds do *not* exist here.
> 
> No matter what.


Mike Greene does refunds. All hail his name.


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