# Hypothetical question- the power goes off indefinitely... could you still compose music?



## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

I've always pondered this... at this point and time, I'd not like it too much because I love StaffPad and Dorico and my libraries... but if push came to shove, yeah, I still could. I have an acoustic piano and pencil, paper... I often sketch ideas out that way anyhow, even with technology at my disposal.


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## Zanshin (Nov 9, 2021)

I'd be down to an unamped baritone telecaster w/o electricity haha.


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## José Herring (Nov 9, 2021)

Started my life as only pen and paper. I still prefer it over sequencing but to save time I sequence first these days. Sometimes I'll sketch it first but I haven't done a full score pen and paper style in like 23 years now. Wow, looking back that was a lot of paper back in the day.


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## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Started my life as only pen and paper. I still prefer it over sequencing but to save time I sequence first these days. Sometimes I'll sketch it first but I haven't done a full score pen and paper style in like 23 years now. Wow, looking back that was a lot of paper back in the day.


my student pieces were a mishmash. The piano stuff was clunky... it was glorious when I had the chance to test out my small ensemble pieces using a U20 and Atari 520STFM back in the late 80s. Of course, I still composed everything on paper.. it was just nice to hear what it would sound like afterwards. Pretty close too as it turned out!


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## gsilbers (Nov 9, 2021)

Since everything is operated with power, i doubt anyone will have to time to compose. 

it would be the walking dead w/o zombies. just a bunch of people fighting for food and resources all the time.


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## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> Since everything is operated with power, i doubt anyone will have to time to compose.
> 
> it would be the walking dead w/o zombies. just a bunch of people fighting for food and resources all the time.


there's always one literal dude in the bunch.


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2021)

yes, and maybe even be more productive... of course not keeping into account gsilbers' scenario: it's an abstract question, only regarding composing (and playing). In my teens nothing music related had to do with electricity. Acoustic piano, flute, guitar, music paper block and friends...


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 9, 2021)

Yes I can and will be more productive. I started out with just pen and paper and miss the slow pace of this process to be honest. I use a digital piano while composing to help me, but would then buy an acoustic one. And finally am a brass player myself and know a lot of orchestral and jazz musicians, so that would all work itself out eventually.


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## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

I also remember a time when we weren't so programmed to check emails and internet every 2 seconds.. it makes it difficult to maintain a consistent thought. Maybe the kids here who grew up with cell phones and internet have better formed neural pathways but honestly, for me, it gets a bit much...


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## MA-Simon (Nov 9, 2021)

I can do a lot on my piano. BUT: I don't do sheet music. So it would be all in my head. I have great finger memory though.


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## Gene Pool (Nov 9, 2021)

Another good question would be to ask how much you could write if all you had was pencils and score paper; no piano or other instrument, no tuning fork or pitch pipe, no books or references, and not even a metronome. (The music would obviously not be for picture sync.)

Way back when composer's were expected to have serious skills and people couldn't get by with faking it, Debussy won a contest prescribed as above.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Nov 9, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> Another good question would be to ask how much you could write if all you had was pencils and score paper; no piano or other instrument, no tuning fork or pitch pipe, no books or references, and not even a metronome. (The music would obviously not be for picture sync.)
> 
> Way back when composer's were expected to have serious skills and people couldn't get by with faking it, Debussy won a contest prescribed as above.



I’d just write Council of Trent/Palestrina-style polyphony in order to make sure there were no mistakes 😂


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## Gene Pool (Nov 9, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I also remember a time when we weren't so programmed to check emails and internet every 2 seconds.. it makes it difficult to maintain a consistent thought. Maybe the kids here who grew up with cell phones and internet have better formed neural pathways but honestly, for me, it gets a bit much...


Just the opposite. There've been a number of serious studies showing that if you spent your teen years using smart phones that you have a shorter attention span, less focus, less memory, and are overall less nimble in your ability to think.

And more good news is that throughout the 20th and 21st century, IQ's are trending _lower_.


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## Loïc D (Nov 9, 2021)

Sure, I just need 2 sticks and a coconut.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 9, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> Just the opposite. There've been a number of serious studies showing that if you spent your teen years using smart phones that you have a shorter attention span, less focus, less memory, and are overall less nimble in your ability to think.
> 
> And more good news is that throughout the 20th and 21st century, IQ's are trending _lower_.


I put a lot of that down to the fact that youngsters don't seem to read books anymore. Not only is it apparent in their vocabulary, grammar, spelling and ability to put together coherent sentences, but the level of knowledge seems to be more shallow and superficial. At least that is what I have found with my children. Getting them to read actual books usually requires the use of firearms and bribery.

A couple of years ago I pulled some old 'O' level papers from the loft and compared them to the GCSE's my children took. The difference was stark (and rather depressing).

However, music is only my hobby, so score paper and a pencil would only work for me if I also had a piano. I have a very taxing career and have not had the contiguous time to develop my inner ear as I would have liked.

Fortunately, when I'm travelling I have Staffpad.

(My grandfather passed away in the 70's, but he would have been totally blown away with that as a tool......)


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## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> I put a lot of that down to the fact that youngsters don't seem to read books anymore. Not only is is apparent in their vocabulary, grammar, spelling and ability to put together coherent sentences, but the level of knowledge seems to be more shallow and superficial. At least that is what I have found with my children. Getting them the read actual books usually requires the use of firearms and bribery.
> 
> A couple of years ago I pulled some old 'O' level papers I did from the loft and compared them to the GCSE's my children took. The difference was stark (and rather depressing).
> 
> ...


yeah I think I'd have to invest in a solar powered battery charger so I could keep my iPad going with StaffPad. I think it's my most valued piece of kit now..

EDIT- I know that's cheating....


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## Gene Pool (Nov 9, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> Fortunately, when I'm travelling I have Staffpad.


And no telling what it'll be able to do a few years from now after it shakes off its initial growing pains, though the Musescore alliance is still a bit of a mystery.


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## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> And no telling what it'll be able to do a few years from now after it shakes off its initial growing pains, though the Musescore alliance is still a bit of a mystery.


I'm able to get 90% of what I want out of StaffPad even if it requires tweaking in Dorico for live performance purposes.

Chipping away at this piece currently


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## JohnG (Nov 9, 2021)

IDK whether it will be the Water Wars of 2020 or the total failure of the Worldwide Grid in 2034, but I agree with @gsilbers -- no power, no civilisation

in the mean time?

I compose half my stuff by singing anyway, a few things on an actual piano, and I also use guitars and a cello, so maybe that's a more direct answer to your question @dcoscina ?


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## KarlHeinz (Nov 9, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> Since everything is operated with power, i doubt anyone will have to time to compose.
> 
> it would be the walking dead w/o zombies. just a bunch of people fighting for food and resources all the time.


I am afraid you are damn right. But it seems most of us (me to) prefer to just look away and dont think about it...........There was a novel about it.......its not about years, month, its about days, hours till evrything brake down.

Apart from this true and dark realities: I wont never be able to "compose" without electricity, but as long as I have strings for my guitar and my about a dozen of chords and a peace of paper......and if this is gone I will stil have my voice.......lonely voice maybe then........


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## marclawsonmusic (Nov 9, 2021)

Is there an option for 'Yes, but I would need a lot of erasers'?  

In all seriousness, I hear ideas clearly in my head, but until I hear it played back I am not sure if I orchestrated it correctly. Still have a lot to learn, I guess.

So, for me it's 'Sort of, I could but it wouldn't be pretty'


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## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

I think Stravinsky needed a keyboard because he was tactile composer. I can hear ideas in my head but it's nice to do harmonic variations using a piano. Plus I've been playing for 40 years now and just enjoy the instrument. Happy accidents happen playing piano #bobrossstyle


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## CT (Nov 9, 2021)

Yeah count me as another who'd be happier in some ways in this kind of situation. It's how I try to work anyway. Remove the burden of mock-ups etc. and it'd be even more freeing (though obviously a pain to make what you write audible, which is no small difference).


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## mscp (Nov 9, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> just a bunch of people fighting for food and resources all the time.


I bet a bunch of grown men would turn vegan for the obvious reasons. lol.


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## AkashicBird (Nov 9, 2021)

I'm probably fucked as I mostly compose using a synth as a midi controller for the various instruments I use.
The only non midi instruments I have are a guitar and bass and they're still electric.
That leaves me with a tiny kalimba and my voice (and whatever I could use as percussion, basically anything).

The thing that preoccupies me the most tho is the fact that even with electricity, this makes me think, as I already have some times ago, that I never really learn or focus on anything, my composition process is bit by bit, not even sure if I can learn a full song correctly (besides maybe drums, my main instrument)

For now I'm having lots of fun like that, but I've already thought in the past that I really want to record something as barebones/old school as possible. There's something about older productions I really love (I also love superproduced stuff, but I mean, limitations, etc)


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## G_Erland (Nov 9, 2021)

Can i compose, even with power on, I often ponder.


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## tc9000 (Nov 9, 2021)

Loïc D said:


> Sure, I just need 2 sticks and a coconut.


Sticks and coconuts are for divas and tech nerds - abandon all that over-priced new-fangled technology and find the real music inside by beating your chest!


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## toomanynotes (Nov 9, 2021)

I'm useless with Technology. I would sell it all to get one Symphony recorded and published.


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## Gene Pool (Nov 9, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I'm able to get 90% of what I want out of StaffPad even if it requires tweaking in Dorico for live performance purposes.
> 
> Chipping away at this piece currently


Terrific work, and very worthy subject matter.


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## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> Terrific work, and very worthy subject matter.


Thanks kindly Gene Pool. Shosty is one of my composition heroes. While some of the harmonic language I am borrowing from him, I'd like this to be more of a dedication, much like Howard Hanson did for Serge Kousevitsky in his Elegy to him.


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## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

toomanynotes said:


> I'm useless with Technology. I would sell it all to get one Symphony recorded and published.


Me too brother, me too!


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## Gene Pool (Nov 9, 2021)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Is there an option for 'Yes, but I would need a lot of erasers'?


Try this out if you have occasion to work with pencil paper. By greatly lessening your erasure effort, it makes you feel like you didn't err all that much. 

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B07JVQD7QQ/ezvid02-20


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## sostenuto (Nov 9, 2021)

Nope ! Zero Q ! Nada ! Shuda asked when Grotrian Concert 223 still graced living room. 🥴
Now _ power out / I'm out ..... 👻


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## Gene Pool (Nov 9, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Thanks kindly Gene Pool. Shosty is one of my composition heroes. While some of the harmonic language I am borrowing from him, I'd like this to be more of a dedication, much like Howard Hanson did for Serge Kousevitsky in his Elegy to him.


Read awhile back that whenever he got into a composing bind, he would always consult scores by Tchaikovsky more than any other composer. You can certainly see that in his orchestration; they look the same on the page so much of the time.


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## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> Read awhile back that whenever he got into a composing bind, he would always consult scores by Tchaikovsky more than any other composer. You can certainly see that in his orchestration; they look the same on the page so much of the time.


Neat! I have most of his symphonies in study score. he had a very specific sound for his wind orchestration. I notice a lot of doubling in unison of the oboes and clarinets.


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## toomanynotes (Nov 9, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Me too brother, me too!


Join me...Together we can rule the universe!


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## RSK (Nov 9, 2021)

I have paper and pencil for writing, and a piano and a cello for sounding things out. I can generally hear strings and brass in my head, but not so much woodwinds yet. So hopefully that would be enough.

I am no Bach.


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## molemac (Nov 9, 2021)

I would be happy to give up composing and return to just playing the sax. I am almost there but the power is still on and I cant quite let go of logic and the fear of missing out on the latest sample preorder.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 9, 2021)

I do most of my song ideas in the car. The tic tic tic of the turn signal is a great click track. The bass hum from the tires on the asphalt gives me ideas. The only bad thing is I usually forget to record it on my phone. 

My biggest problem has been I get a melody and words, but the other instruments, though I can hear them in my head, never quite make it to the DAW in the same way. Which sometimes changes the melody.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Nov 9, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I'm able to get 90% of what I want out of StaffPad even if it requires tweaking in Dorico for live performance purposes.
> 
> Chipping away at this piece currently


Solid, solid piece of music!


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## ryans (Nov 9, 2021)

Perhaps not electricity but hasn't music always been linked to technology?

With the exception of the human voice isn't every musical instrument and recording equipment technology?


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## Nico5 (Nov 9, 2021)

ryans said:


> Perhaps not electricity but hasn't music always been linked to technology?
> 
> With the exception of the human voice isn't every musical instrument and recording equipment technology?


how about clapping your hands?


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## ryans (Nov 9, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> how about clapping your hands?


Sure, clapping hands and singing, and beating rocks together would be the extent of the sonic palette used to PERFORM music without technology.

But.. the OP's question is can you COMPOSE and orchestrate without technology, which I completely missed, so my comment is pretty stupid, sorry.


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## marclawsonmusic (Nov 9, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Chipping away at this piece currently


This is lovely, David. I am inspired - I think I need more Shostakovich in my life.


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## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2021)

marclawsonmusic said:


> This is lovely, David. I am inspired - I think I need more Shostakovich in my life.


Thanks Marcus!


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## Zanshin (Nov 9, 2021)

I am surprised by the poll. A lot more masters here than I would guess!


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## Geoff Grace (Nov 9, 2021)

I answered, "Yes, I could compose and orchestrate finished work;" but then it occurred to me that I have no staff paper large enough to provide a conductor score.

Best,

Geoff


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## Zanshin (Nov 9, 2021)

Scotch tape to the rescue.


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## dcoscina (Nov 10, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I am surprised by the poll. A lot more masters here than I would guess!


The first answer just means whether one could write out a full chart on paper. It could be anything from a solo piece through to a Mahler sized score. And it could encompass using an acoustic instrument as pitch reference as Well.


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## Zanshin (Nov 10, 2021)

A fully orchestrated piano piece then hah. I put myself firmly at the bottom of the poll but even I could do that.

Edit: I move too much, I would love an actual piano but not in the cards at least for the near future.


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## Romy Schmidt (Nov 10, 2021)

All you need is paper, pencil and an instrument. Or parchment, a piece of charcoal and a harp made from cat's guts.


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## river angler (Nov 10, 2021)

Wouldn't stop me as I'd still have my acoustic instruments, my ears, my imagination and my memory.
...after all if one can not compose quality compositions on base traditional instruments 
what use is all the software anyway?!


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## dcoscina (Nov 10, 2021)

ka00 said:


> I'm with you on this. I also think there's a good chance we will have cut the power as a last ditch effort to pull the plug on the metaverse and to power down the AI that control our every action.
> 
> I really doubt writing music is going to be high on the priority list in that scenario.
> 
> ...


Some of You guys are taking this poll too literally


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## KarlHeinz (Nov 10, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Some of You guys are taking this poll too literally


Before I write anything I will surely regret I simply agree: wrong thread..........


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## KEM (Nov 10, 2021)

I could write on piano or guitar but I’d have no way of writing it down, I’ve never written sheet music in my entire life


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## KEM (Nov 10, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Started my life as only pen and paper. I still prefer it over sequencing but to save time I sequence first these days. Sometimes I'll sketch it first but I haven't done a full score pen and paper style in like 23 years now. Wow, looking back that was a lot of paper back in the day.



Last time you did that I had just came out of a womb lol


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## José Herring (Nov 10, 2021)

KEM said:


> Last time you did that I had just came out of a womb lol


Son?


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## KEM (Nov 10, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Son?



Would explain a lot, although I’m pale as can be


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## Markus Kohlprath (Nov 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> The tic tic tic of the turn signal is a great click track.


So if we ever read in the newspaper of a cracy guy driving permanently in a traffic circle for 10minutes with the turn signal to the left turned on we know who it is.


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## YaniDee (Nov 11, 2021)

Well that would be an awful thing for the two finger (one for the Epic perc loops, the other for the evolving drones) soundtrack composers! Of course, there would be no media to compose to apart from theater and dance, lit by candles. On the plus side, maybe there would be a comeback of Gregorian chant...
To answer the question..I still have acoustic instruments and manuscript paper, so I could still compose.


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## GNP (Nov 11, 2021)

toomanynotes said:


> I'm useless with Technology. I would sell it all to get one Symphony recorded and published.


Getting your Symphony recorded and published requires electricity too.


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## dcoscina (Nov 11, 2021)

GNP said:


> Getting your Symphony recorded and published requires electricity too.


Public performance by candlelight is still possible. It was fine this way for a couple hundred years


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## GNP (Nov 11, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Public performance by candlelight is still possible. It was fine this way for a couple hundred years


Adorable!


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## Gerbil (Nov 11, 2021)

I still compose only using pen and paper. If I’m using samples, I write for the samples. If it’s for someone else to get a rough idea of a concert work then I have no problem just using Sibelius and noteperformer. Dedicating time to mocking it up with orchestral libraries is time wasted for me.


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## AdamKmusic (Nov 11, 2021)

I’ve got an acoustic guitar so I guess I’d just move onto that, once I’ve found a safe spot & found supplies! What scenario are we talking? Zombies/ nuclear war / aliens?


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## dzilizzi (Nov 11, 2021)

AdamKmusic said:


> I’ve got an acoustic guitar so I guess I’d just move onto that, once I’ve found a safe spot & found supplies! What scenario are we talking? Zombies/ nuclear war / aliens?


EMP?


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## NekujaK (Nov 11, 2021)

That's when I pull out my acoustic guitar or blow on the didj.


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## Living Fossil (Nov 11, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I've always pondered this... at this point and time, I'd not like it too much because I love StaffPad and Dorico and my libraries...



If it's about writing for the concert hall, i still prefer the pencil & paper method.

Nothing else comes close to it in regards to the clarity it allows in imagining the music, in the conception of textures and also in the architecture of the form.
The DAW is great for things that can be done in the head (i.e. where the structure/conception of the instrumentation doesn't uses to much complex individual lines and permutations).
I still can't get myself into using something like Staffpad, Dorico or Finale.
While i do sometimes write scores in the computer, this step usually after a complete handwritten score.


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## J-M (Nov 11, 2021)

As long as I have something to use as a pitch reference, I could and I would. I do have a strong love/hate relationship with my tech though!


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## Tralen (Nov 11, 2021)

Romy Schmidt said:


> All you need is paper, pencil and an instrument. Or parchment, a piece of charcoal and a harp made from cat's guts.


If the world has come to that, I would rather keep the cat alive.

Edit:
(Assuming the cat can meow in tune).


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## Romy Schmidt (Nov 11, 2021)

Tralen said:


> If the world has come to that, I would rather keep the cat alive.
> 
> Edit:
> (Assuming the cat can meow in tune).


It doesn't have to be a cat. A dog, or a pig... I'm not a barbarian.


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## kevinh (Nov 11, 2021)

I could compose without power but emailing my demo using smoke signals will take forever


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## Gene Pool (Nov 11, 2021)

kevinh said:


> I could compose without power but emailing my demo using smoke signals will take forever


Semaphore or Aldis lamp can work for a small score format:


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## dzilizzi (Nov 11, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> Semaphore or Aldis lamp can work for a small score format:



I was actually expecting that first one to be Monty Python. It seems like something they would do.


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