# I'm out - Berlin International Film Scoring Competition 2020



## Leandro Gardini (Feb 14, 2020)

I'm out!
Here is my score for the Berlin International Film Scoring Competition 2020.


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## SaintDufus (Feb 14, 2020)

leogardini said:


> I'm out!
> Here is my score for the Berlin International Film Scoring Competition 2020.




Some really lovely music here, Leo!


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## BlackDorito (Feb 14, 2020)

Nicely done!


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## Zedcars (Feb 15, 2020)

leogardini said:


> I'm out!
> Here is my score for the Berlin International Film Scoring Competition 2020.



This was exceptionally good. I haven’t really heard the other entrants, but if you lost then the standard must be very high indeed. Sounded like it totally gelled and everything sounded just right. I think you should be very proud of the music you created here.


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## I like music (Feb 15, 2020)

Superb. Really nicely done! Yeah, curious to hear what the winner(s) will sound like if this didn't get as far...

Tempted to ask 'which libraries did you use' but the question should really be 'how much goddamn studying did you do?'


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## VinRice (Feb 15, 2020)

Leandro was an EIS student I believe?


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## Leandro Gardini (Feb 15, 2020)

VinRice said:


> Leandro was an EIS student I believe?


Yes I was.


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## VinRice (Feb 16, 2020)

leogardini said:


> Yes I was.



Your entry for the year you won the Berlin (2017?) was outstanding Leandro!


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## Leandro Gardini (Feb 17, 2020)

VinRice said:


> Your entry for the year you won the Berlin (2017?) was outstanding Leandro!


Thank you!
I must say that even though I loved to study EIS the approaches that I used for these two specific movies don’t come from this course.


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## Beluga (Feb 17, 2020)

I heard a few really nice entries so far, including yours. I wonder how the winners sound like and what made them stand apart.

/warning: rant - cynism

Anyway, I'm critical about these competitions. What exactly are they offering for this investment? 500 shabby dollars or euros? With an entry fee of 10% of that sum. That's something like 110$ per minute if you get the first place? That is really ridiculous. And of course the sound licenses they didn't pay for.

But I know I know.. it was a fun experience etc. etc. I should start a competition is to generate some income, seems like a better way than to actually make music.


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## Zedcars (Feb 17, 2020)

Beluga said:


> I heard a few really nice entries so far, including yours. I wonder how the winners sound like and what made them stand apart.
> 
> /warning: rant - cynism
> 
> ...


I'd have thought it is more to do with exposure and increasing your reputation than the actual monetary value. That would then lead to more work with a decent income. I don't suppose anyone enters this solely for the financial reward.


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## Beluga (Feb 17, 2020)

Zedcars said:


> I'd have thought it is more to do with exposure and increasing your reputation than the actual monetary value. That would then lead to more work with a decent income. I don't suppose anyone enters this solely for the financial reward.


And does it happen? Even to the winner?


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## I like music (Feb 17, 2020)

Beluga said:


> And does it happen? Even to the winner?



I know of a couple of examples where winning such a competition was absolutely critical to lots of future work that came a composer's way.


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## Beluga (Feb 17, 2020)

I like music said:


> I know of a couple of examples where winning such a competition was absolutely critical to lots of future work that came a composer's way.


Great, looking forward to hearing their names.


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## I like music (Feb 17, 2020)

Beluga said:


> Great, looking forward to hearing their names.



Hee hee. I knew that was coming. I know for a fact that the chap would not want me to name him. But the story essentially goes that he won such a competition, and then a number of library devs reached out to him, to write demos for them. You have almost certainly heard a few demos from him. He scored some AAA games, and now gets regular work from relationships he developed.

Without that initial influx of interest (and contacts) he formed through winning the competition all the way back in 2005 it would have been a far mightier climb for him.

That said, his career is where it is because of his talent and hard work (he writes music every single waking moment of his day) but that push at that point in his teenage days, made a huge difference.


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## Beluga (Feb 17, 2020)

I like music said:


> Hee hee. I knew that was coming. I know for a fact that the chap would not want me to name him. But the story essentially goes that he won such a competition, and then a number of library devs reached out to him, to write demos for them. You have almost certainly heard a few demos from him. He scored some AAA games, and now gets regular work from relationships he developed.
> 
> Without that initial influx of interest (and contacts) he formed through winning the competition all the way back in 2005 it would have been a far mightier climb for him.
> 
> That said, his career is where it is because of his talent and hard work (he writes music every single waking moment of his day) but that push at that point in his teenage days, made a huge difference.



Yeah, OK, that is one guy. I researched a bit the earlier winners of this contest, don't have the feeling it jump-started their careers. And that's the guys winning. 

The real winners are the organizers of the contest.

I mean: organize a contest, take no entry fee, no winning price except the networking and OK, I see the point of it. This kind of thing, not so much.


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## I like music (Feb 17, 2020)

Beluga said:


> Yeah, OK, that is one guy. I researched a bit the earlier winners of this contest, don't have the feeling it jump-started their careers. And that's the guys winning.
> 
> The real winners are the organizers of the contest.
> 
> I mean: organize a contest, take no entry fee, no winning price except the networking and OK, I see the point of it. This kind of thing, not so much.



I understand. Also, this competition was in 2005. I imagine that the market wasn't as saturated then, as it is right now, and I can be absolutely sure that the organiser of the library did very well (you had to do the mockup using the library, so they will have made quite a few sales). Still, it resulted in a few live performances of the winners, and worked out for one or two guys.

That's just one anecdote. I don't have any other examples. Might be worth someone doing some research to see what the benefit to all parties is on a wider level.

PS just to come back to the topic here. Again, excellent score, and music I could listen to even without the scene.


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## Beluga (Feb 17, 2020)

Yeah, sorry for the off-topic rambling.  I enjoyed the score, too.


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## I like music (Feb 17, 2020)

Beluga said:


> Yeah, sorry for the off-topic rambling.  I enjoyed the score, too.



Ah, didn't mean it that way! But might be worth a separate discussion altogether, as I'm sure a lot of people here have entered competitions and I have thought about it once or twice.


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## Loïc D (Feb 17, 2020)

Funny, I created a thread some days ago about this (To Contest or Not to contest?)

My main gripe against most of the score contests is that the jury doesn’t provide you with any feedback.
For the entry fees we pay, it is a minimum, no?

With probably a better benefit for my writing than comparing my entry to the others...


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## Loïc D (Feb 17, 2020)

Let me try (from my phone) :




__





To contest or not to contest ?


Hi, These days, there are lots of film scoring contests, some supported by manufacturers, some by institutions, some free, some not, etc. I’d like to know your feeling about these : - do you attend ? Based on what (video, prizes, etc) ? - did you ever win or be runner-up ? Did it change your...




vi-control.net


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## becolossal (Feb 19, 2020)

Really nice stuff, Leo!! 

Sidenote, I know registration closed a long time ago, but does anyone know if it's still possible to get a copy of the film with sound fx for personal practice purposes?


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## gohrev (Mar 1, 2020)

This was absolutely beautiful. The music truly added to the suspense, great timing.


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 1, 2020)

The results came out today.
Sometimes I feel I am the most stupid guy I will ever know.

Thank you for your comments!


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## I like music (Mar 1, 2020)

leogardini said:


> Sometimes I feel I am the most stupid guy I will even know.



Hey! Curious to know what you mean.


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## Gerald (Mar 1, 2020)

Great work!


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 2, 2020)

I like music said:


> Hey! Curious to know what you mean.


Nothing really important. I am just distressed by the kind of judgment scores have today. Especially when they say "the level of submissions has been very high". 
But of course this is just my ego speaking out and not my reasoning. Let's move on!


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## I like music (Mar 2, 2020)

leogardini said:


> Nothing really important. I am just distressed by the kind of judgment scores have today. Especially when they say "the level of submissions has been very high".
> But of course this is just my ego speaking out and not my reasoning. Let's move on!



Ah, I see! While I couldn't write what the winners wrote, it isn't the kind of music that appeals to me. The music of today is very different from the music I feel in love with (more 'traditionally' orchestrated, using typical orchestral balances). Goldsmith, Williams, Horner etc at least from the film scoring world.

But there you go, it is the way the world is moving!


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## Iswhatitis (Mar 2, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Funny, I created a thread some days ago about this (To Contest or Not to contest?)
> 
> My main gripe against most of the score contests is that the jury doesn’t provide you with any feedback.
> For the entry fees we pay, it is a minimum, no?
> ...


Most competitions for writers are not about the people who submit entries but actually the founder of that contest as these people cannot make it in the biz as film composers and screenwriters so they start a competition so that they can profit off of entry fees. The vast majority of these contests won’t help you even if you win. Every once in a blue moon someone gets repped by a manager or agent who may be able to get your screenplay optioned for a small amount but even that is rare. I strongly recommend people don’t enter contests as it’s a waste of money and you are merely providing a profit for people who can’t get hired. Sort of like those who can’t do teach... not that there are not spectacular teachers in the world, there are, but they are few and far between. Most teachers are burnt out uninspired can’t make it in the real world types unfortunately.


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## Loïc D (Mar 2, 2020)

Ok, I saw the winning entries, and from my modest hobbyist point of view, I only really enjoyed the 3rd one.
I was far less impressed than last year’s winners (@leogardini I loved your submission).
The winners perform well in the music design but the arrangement is scarse... I heard better entries from people rejected.

Ok, my MAIN but big gripe at those competitions is the lack of review from the jury. For the price you’re paying, the minimum reward should be a review of your entry, not a book, but just a few words or a notation grid (with criteria like originality, storytelling, mixing, orchestration, arrangement).
And basically, it’s hard to balance my entry to the other ones and to the winners. Not to say that I consider myself as good as the others - far from it actually - but I’d like to know where I need to improve.

Ok, I think I’ll pass on next time. Only contests with feedback shall have my consideration...

What’s your opinion?


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## ka00 (Mar 2, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> What’s your opinion?



If I had to guess what the jury is thinking about any entry, it's something along these lines:

1. Does the score set the right mood in the right spots? (on a normal job they would tell you what they are intending for each moment to feel like, so in a competition like this, everyone is at a disadvantage to begin with, which increases the odds you are going in the wrong direction)

2. Does the score hit the right balance of supporting the story without overpowering all other elements of the experience?

3. Does it feel generally of the current zeitgeist (i.e. is the style commercially viable and will it meet a viewer's general expectations of such a score in 2020)? Admittedly this is about fashion and contemporary tastes, yet not about jumping on the latest musical fad.

4. Does the score sound like something you could just listen to and enjoy if you closed your eyes? Meaning, does the score have its own logic or form or does it merely mimick what's on screen at any given time, starting ideas and abandoning them at will and nothing more.

I would just consider it practise, personally. A nice goal to strive for with a deadline. I would advise anyone against taking the fact that they didn't place in the top ten too seriously. It's hard, I know. I say this after having submitted film scripts for funding many times and feeling disheartened and slighted when I didn't get it.

Me personally, I would rather spend that time making my own thing and trying to find my own audience for it.

EDIT: this was meant as general thoughts on these types of competitions. Leo, your score was very well done!


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 2, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Ok, I saw the winning entries, and from my modest hobbyist point of view, I only really enjoyed the 3rd one.
> I was far less impressed than last year’s winners (@leogardini I loved your submission).
> The winners perform well in the music design but the arrangement is scarse... I heard better entries from people rejected.
> 
> ...


Professional opinions may be good and bad depending on whom it came from. However, from my experience, I've never got a bad opinion from a layman. Even though they may lack the proper vocabulary for music, generally their input has been better than some professionals I think.
What I most care about competitions is the challenge itself. I always give more than my best in those movies and I always feel I become a little better after completing the score. But it can be very frustrating when you are not even among the 10 finalists and when the winners come out you start to wonder what were their criteria for judging.


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 2, 2020)

ka00 said:


> If I had to guess what the jury is thinking about any entry, it's something along these lines:
> 
> 1. Does the score set the right mood in the right spots? (on a normal job they would tell you what they are intending for each moment to feel like, so in a competition like this, everyone is at a disadvantage to begin with, which increases the odds you are going in the wrong direction)
> 
> ...


I think you've nailed it and I still strongly disagree with the final result. 
Anyway, I don't want to go on and on on this. Congratulations to the winners and I am happy I gave my best.


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## Loïc D (Mar 2, 2020)

Thank you, I do agree with all of you.
I’ve been attending this contest not to win anything (actually the prizes are... ahem) but to learn and refine composition skills.

This time, I chose mickeymousing because I never did this before and I learned a lot about LPX tempo maps, bar-to-picture sync, and libraries like SCS, JXL, SStW, etc. And enjoying my reborn SH101. 

Still, I would have liked to get feedback from pros, but if I’m not wrong, I reckon that there are more pros here than in the jury


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Mar 2, 2020)

Yeah I am a bit flabbergasted with the results - I've enjoyed the rejected scores far more. This will be my first and likely last attempt at such a competition.

On topic-ish Great work Leo .


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## I like music (Mar 3, 2020)

Sorry to jump back in here. Anyone spotting a trend in what is starting to win? Has that sound changed a lot over the last 10 years or so?

I'm curious, because I don't know if I'm disagreeing with the finalists because I just don't like it, or whether I don't like it _because_ there's a fundamental change in _what_ kind of music is now more popular. I don't have the musical vocabulary to explain what I mean. But in my head, something that's more sound-designy and novel (in the sense that it now doesn't treat the orchestra as a orchestra, but as a virtual instrument where you can do with it what you want) will have a decent chance at winning, these days.

I guess it is hard to say with such a short clip, because it seems that the scenes flicked so quickly that you couldn't breathe through it all. But something about the winning entries didn't work for me. And I'm not sure why.


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## Loïc D (Mar 3, 2020)

IIRC the former winners were also often hybrid scores (mixing orchestra/sound design/guitars, scarce arrangement, with the FX track on the foreground and looooots of reverb on the music). 
So I guess this is the BIFSC trend and the key to be selected.
Is it a broader trend, I don’t know...
It doesn’t sound like the movies I’m watching


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## Illico (Mar 3, 2020)

To be honest, I like when some hybrid stuff are added ( some sub basses for example). There are too much bombastics stuff on 1st winner. I really like the 2nd winner's sound atmosphere (some synth and voices), but again there are too much bombastics percussions with the monster. The 3rd is much more orchestral, more "standard", some hybrid synth instruments should be added to add some "futurist" feeling. Again, congratulation to winners and finalists, and all of you. Glad to ear all your works.


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 3, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> IIRC the former winners were also often hybrid scores (mixing orchestra/sound design/guitars, scarce arrangement, with the FX track on the foreground and looooots of reverb on the music).
> So I guess this is the BIFSC trend and the key to be selected.
> Is it a broader trend, I don’t know...
> It doesn’t sound like the movies I’m watching


On Sputnik (2018, first BIFSC edition) I used acoustic instruments only. Tried to achieve a lot of special effects using acoustic instruments.
But I guess the "trailer type" trend is out there in most beloved scores.


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## Loïc D (Mar 3, 2020)

leogardini said:


> On Sputnik (2018, first BIFSC edition) I used acoustic instruments only. Tried to achieve a lot of special effects using acoustic instruments.


Great ! Where can I listen to it?
I really like what you do


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## I like music (Mar 3, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Great ! Where can I listen to it?
> I really like what you do


You can find it on the same website under previous year's competition!


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 3, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Great ! Where can I listen to it?
> I really like what you do


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## Vincent Martin (Mar 4, 2020)

isn't there any public jury's comments about the winning scores ? explaining in a couple of chapters why they appreciated the music ?
is the outcome of the competition just about listing the winners and that's it ?
or have I missed something ?


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## I like music (Mar 4, 2020)

Vincent Martin said:


> isn't there any public jury's comments about the winning scores ? explaining in a couple of chapters why they appreciated the music ?
> is the outcome of the competition just about listing the winners and that's it ?
> or have I missed something ?



This is a good point. At the very least they should show some transparency, and some engagement. Worst case they should say "here's why we liked it, here are the trends we saw, etc etc"


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## Loïc D (Mar 4, 2020)

leogardini said:


>



Masterwork !


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 4, 2020)

Vincent Martin said:


> isn't there any public jury's comments about the winning scores ? explaining in a couple of chapters why they appreciated the music ?
> is the outcome of the competition just about listing the winners and that's it ?
> or have I missed something ?


You didn't miss anything at all. No comments nor feedback came from them so far.


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## Illico (Mar 4, 2020)

leogardini said:


> You didn't miss anything at all. No comments nor feedback came from them so far.


Do you know the number of applicants during 2019 competition?


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## Leandro Gardini (Mar 4, 2020)

Illico said:


> Do you know the number of applicants during 2019 competition?


Nope. Usually, it's around 300 but I don't know exactly.


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