# Logic Pro 10.4.5 Update



## Mr. Ha

The new Logic Pro update has been released!

Any thoughts?


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## Geoff Grace

This one leaves Sierra behind (macOS 10.13.6 or later is required), so I'll have to wait to try it until I've finally taken the Mojave plunge. (I'm planning to skip High Sierra.)

They've also raised the price from $199.99 to $279.99, but it's a free update for those who've already purchased Logic Pro X.

More here:

Logic Pro X

*Edit:* I was wrong about the price increase. I didn't realize that I was looking at the Canadian price when I saw that it was $279.99. I apologize for the error.

Best,

Geoff


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## WindcryMusic

Mr. Ha said:


> The new Logic Pro update has been released!
> 
> Any thoughts?



I like that the headline feature is "Improved Performance". And I am hoping my iMac Pro has enough power to benefit to at least some degree from the increased track limit.

I wish they'd also implemented an "unload all" operation for tracks, though. That would have been a HUGE boon for orchestral templates in LPX. EDIT: while it wasn't listed in the patch notes, @Vik found this additional 10.4.5 info which sounds like it might be very much like what I was hoping for: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209636

I'm surprised that it is only a 10.4.5 version rather than 10.5. EDIT: I had wished for more, but now it looks like the release notes have been fleshed out ... and there is MORE. MUCH MORE.


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## babylonwaves

WindcryMusic said:


> I guess this release was mostly aimed at Mac Pro support after all. Given how long it has been, I was hoping there might be a bit more to it.



you might realise later that "Performance improvements" is a bigger gift than you think right now.


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## WindcryMusic

babylonwaves said:


> you might realise later that "Performance improvements" is a bigger gift than you think right now.



Yes, it is already appearing that you might be right.


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## jonathanwright

Looks like there’s a fair bit more to this update than it first appears:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718

I’m intrigued by this:


User defaults can now be set up for the Mixer configuration.
I can’t check it out yet, as it isn’t appearing in my app store.


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## Dewdman42

I just installed it. It broke VEP AU3. I noticed they bumped up the number of multi-out inst aux channels to 25 instead of 16 as before. So that's someting. I'm not seeing 1000 channels. I have to say...this feels broken so far...


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## babylonwaves

Geoff Grace said:


> They've also raised the price from $199.99 to $279.99, but it's a free update for those who've already purchased Logic Pro X.








really? I just took this screenshot.


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## jonathanwright

The implementation of ‘Disabled Tracks’ seems to work really well so far. Actually quite slick that the track enables just by selecting it.

The UI feels _really_ responsive, opening/closing the mixer, even dragging its border is noticably faster.


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## Michael Stibor

_"Freezing a track now unloads its plug-ins to free up resources."_

What was the point of freezing before, if this wasn't part of it in the first place?


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## WindcryMusic

mikefrommontreal said:


> _"Freezing a track now unloads its plug-ins to free up resources."_
> 
> What was the point of freezing before, if this wasn't part of it in the first place?



I think before it would just free up CPU ... now it frees up RAM as well.


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## rhye

Does this mean that disabling now removes the plugin from ram?


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## jonathanwright

rhye said:


> Does this mean that disabling now removes the plugin from ram?



Yep. Even better, the track will automatically be disabled (if you want it to) if there is no data on it when you open the project. Great for templates.


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## CT

Damn. No Sierra. So it begins....


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## Jeremy Spencer

jonathanwright said:


> Yep. Even better, the track will automatically be disabled (if you want it to) if there is no data on it when you open the project. Great for templates.



What does this mean exactly? You basically enable a certain track and the VI loads up?


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## jonathanwright

Wolfie2112 said:


> What does this mean exactly? You basically enable a certain track and the VI loads up?



Essentially, you can populate a whole template and save it. 

When loading, unless there is any MIDI/Audio data on a track, it will be automatically disabled. The VI slot is greyed out.

All you have to do is select a track and the instrument will be instantly loaded.


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## Dewdman42

is there a way to turn off that behavior?


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## jonathanwright

Dewdman42 said:


> is there a way to turn off that behavior?



Yes, in project preferences.

If you want to do it manually you can click on the on/off button while pressing ‘alt’.


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## WindcryMusic

Wolfie2112 said:


> What does this mean exactly? You basically enable a certain track and the VI loads up?



From what I am seeing, if it was auto-unloaded during the project load (e.g., it is unloaded but the "On" button is lit), you just select it as the current track and the plugin and samples load up. On the other hand, if you explicitly unload a track during a session with Option-click to turn off the "On" button, then selecting the track does not auto-reload it ... you need to click to light the "On" button again and then the plugins/samples load again.


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## Geoff Grace

babylonwaves said:


> really? I just took this screenshot.


That's odd. Here's my screenshot:






*Edit:* I followed the link to the Mac App Store, and it still reads $199.99 there. I hope the $279.99 is a typo.

Best,

Geoff


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## Dewdman42

I'm noticing that creating a new instrument track doesn't update the track list unless you click on the arrange page to make it appear. Honestly I'm running into problems already, this is a buggy update imho. VEP AU3 is broken now too. Other things...


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## Dewdman42

and........crash.... heheh

lame update apple. Going back to 10.4.4


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## gsilbers

hmm.. i guess raising the amount of tracks is good. the rest seemed ok'ish? 

the shift double click pressing on any part of work area will play from there seems neat.


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## WindcryMusic

Dewdman42 said:


> I'm noticing that creating a new instrument track doesn't update the track list unless you click on the arrange page to make it appear.



FWIW, I don't see any such problem here. Creating an instrument track appears in the track list immediately, just like normal. Maybe this is also related to VEP (which I don't use)?


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## Jeremy Spencer

jonathanwright said:


> Essentially, you can populate a whole template and save it.
> 
> When loading, unless there is any MIDI/Audio data on a track, it will be automatically disabled. The VI slot is greyed out.
> 
> All you have to do is select a track and the instrument will be instantly loaded.



I like this! Thanks.


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## Ashermusic

WindcryMusic said:


> FWIW, I don't see any such problem here. Creating an instrument track appears in the track list immediately, just like normal. Maybe this is also related to VEP (which I don't use)?



Not having that issue here either.


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## Geoff Grace

ka00 said:


> It’s $279.99 Canadian dollars, in the Canadian App Store. Did a link take you there?


I see no evidence from the site itself that it's Canadian, but that would make sense.

I got my info by following a link from a 9to5mac article here:

https://9to5mac.com/2019/06/13/apple-logic-pro-x-10-4-5-mac-pro/

That article contains a link to the $279.99 price here:

https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/logic-pro-x/id634148309?mt=12

And now that I paste the link, I see the "ca" in it. Sorry to all, that I spread misinformation. Thanks @babylonwaves and @ka00 for helping me figure that out.

I've edited my first post near the top of this thread.

Best,

Geoff


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## Dewdman42

WindcryMusic said:


> FWIW, I don't see any such problem here. Creating an instrument track appears in the track list immediately, just like normal. Maybe this is also related to VEP (which I don't use)?



its happening for any and all instruments, not just VEP.

when I tried to select the track and hit DELETE, it crashed logic.

VEP AU3 doesn't work at all, can't even open the plugin gui


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## Gerd Kaeding

Dewdman42 said:


> its happening for any and all instruments, not just VEP.
> 
> when I tried to select the track and hit DELETE, it crashed logic.
> 
> VEP AU3 doesn't work at all, can't even open the plugin gui




Just an idea ...

As far as I understand you've build your Logic & VEP7 setup using VEP7 in its AU3 version ,
which is still in *BETA* !!!

Using this Beta Version might cause the issues with Logic10.4.5 you are encountering .

It is up to VSL to sort out these issues with a new release of VEP7 .


Best ,
Gerd


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## Nmargiotta

So many great new refinements to LPX! Thank you to the team working hard at this. Incredible updates, and again for FREE. Thank you LPX Team!


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## Dewdman42

Gerd Kaeding said:


> Just an idea ...
> 
> As far as I understand you've build your Logic & VEP7 setup using VEP7 in its AU3 version ,
> which is still in *BETA* !!!
> 
> Using this Beta Version might cause the issues with Logic10.4.5 you are encountering .
> 
> It is up to VSL to sort out these issues with a new release of VEP7 .
> 
> 
> Best ,
> Gerd



the problem I mentioned with having to click on the arrange page in order to see new tracks is happening for ALL instruments, not just VSL. 

I agree the VEP Au3 plugin is beta. And its now broken in 10.4.5


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## samphony

Dewdman42 said:


> the problem I mentioned with having to click on the arrange page in order to see new tracks is happening for ALL instruments, not just VSL.
> 
> I agree the VEP Au3 plugin is beta. And its now broken in 10.4.5


can you create a new user account on your mac and start a fresh project and try if its your user account/ preferences making problems.


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## Dewdman42

I don't have time to mess with it, and anyway I'm more concerned about my mojave based system back home when I get back there in a few days. I consider this a broken release... rolling back... have fun with yours if its working for you


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## Christof

The dynamic plug-in loading feature is one of the best improvements ever.Finally I can load my big templates 100 times faster than before.
Closing a big template is also incredible fast now, same with saving a project.
This is really smart and excuses the missing features we asked for:
-Multiple video import
-Multiple midi CC lanes in the piano roll
-Multiple marker tracks.

And yes, I just created 1000 audio tracks, just for fun


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## babylonwaves

Christof said:


> And yes, I just created 1000 audio tracks, just for fun


and ... how did it feel?


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## Christof

I feel good


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## Michael Stibor

WindcryMusic said:


> I think before it would just free up CPU ... now it frees up RAM as well.


Thank you. I had a feeling that that was the case as I never saw the plugins reload when I "unfroze" a frozen track, Seems to me that freeing up the RAM would've been a essential part of the freezing process, but oh well. Better late than never.


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## stonzthro

Still waiting for the update to show in the App Store...


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## WindcryMusic

stonzthro said:


> Still waiting for the update to show in the App Store...



What OS version are you running? If older than High Sierra, the update is probably hidden under "Incompatible Updates".


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## stonzthro

10.14.5, but thanks for the suggestions.


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## WindcryMusic

I just tried loading my main cinematic template, which has 286 tracks (around 220 instrument tracks and the rest aux tracks, with mostly instances of Kontakt loaded up on each individual track).

Prior to LPX 10.4.5: template loading time of about 5 MINUTES, around 70GB of RAM used, and took almost exactly 1 MINUTE to start playback the first time I pressed the Play transport button.

With LPX 10.4.5: template loading time of about 10 SECONDS, about 5GB of RAM used (at most), and playback starts INSTANTLY.

I'm a happy guy.


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## mc_deli

The Mixer now offers an option to disable its automatic scrolling to channel strips of selected tracks.
ooh


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## stonzthro

For anyone else - I had to hit 'Reload Page' from the Store drop down, to get it to show up.


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## Garry

stonzthro said:


> For anyone else - I had to hit 'Reload Page' from the Store drop down, to get it to show up.


That must only work once it's now available on your system - here Reload is greyed out, so I'm guessing there's still nothing to reload. :(


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## Airspeed

Garry, try restarting your computer then see if the reload page option is available. That's what I had to do.


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## Garry

Airspeed said:


> Garry, try restarting your computer then see if the reload page option is available. That's what I had to do.


Unfortunately not - still no update! :( Thanks for the suggestion, but I guess I just have to be patient...


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## Airspeed

Garry, how about signing out of the App Store then signing back in?


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## Garry

Airspeed said:


> Garry, how about signing out of the App Store then signing back in?


Nope! Not that either!! I'm ok with it, it'll come in time...


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## Nick Batzdorf

Christof said:


> -Multiple midi CC lanes in the piano roll



How did you do that? You've been able to do that in the Step editor for a long time, but I only know about viewing one type of data in the Piano Roll (either the one built into the Main Window or a stand-alone one).


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## Vik

Nick Batzdorf said:


> How did you do that?


He was talking about "the missing features we asked for".


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## MaxOctane

Dewdman42 said:


> and........crash.... heheh
> 
> lame update apple. Going back to 10.4.4



Crashing for me too. I updated by deleting 10.4.4 then installing 10.4.5 on App Store.

Crashes instantly whenever I try to load a Kontakt track (or template containing Kontakt, etc). It was working just before I updated.

Also, Native Access is insta-crashing too (??).

*EDIT: I restarted a couple of times, and now it's working.*


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## anp27

What a nice surprise  So my theory of a paid major update next month coinciding with NAMM might be coming true after all, since they've rolled out the Keynote "performance" update for this version


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## stonzthro

Wow - this really is a great update - thank you Logic Devs!


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## bvaughn0402

What happens when you select a track which triggers a huge instrument to load? Does everything work well? I'm guessing it will definitely load faster than instantiating the plug-in, selecting the preset, etc.


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## MarcelM

well... thx apple for putting the update out after the cubase crossgrade offer 

the disable track works great in logic and the only other thing iam missing now are multiple CC lanes.


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## bvaughn0402

Christof said:


> -Multiple midi CC lanes in the piano roll



I asked someone at Apple about this. I'm not sure if this is an "answer" for this, but wanted to pass this along.

Seems Logic incorporated RBA, Region Based Automation, to the Track area. First press ‘A’ to open automation, then select the button that says ‘track’. 

You can then add extra lanes. As many as you wish for multiple cc data. Essentially RBA is any data that can be recorded from your controller keyboard. All MIDI messages.

The piano roll can be used for things that are more note-specific, but for all other CC, the tracks area would be more appropriate, and you can see as many CCs as you want! It can also store plug-in automation too.

They seemed really excited about the fact of automation data being stored and manipulated in this way.


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## Nick Batzdorf

bvaughn0402 said:


> What happens when you select a track which triggers a huge instrument to load? Does everything work well? I'm guessing it will definitely load faster than instantiating the plug-in, selecting the preset, etc.



It works fine, and it takes the same amount of time it would take to load if you loaded it (except that clicking on the track loads the instrument rather than selecting it from a menu, so in that way it's quicker).

With the feature turned on in the Project prefs, if you don't want a track to load as soon as you touch it - either by clicking on it or just using the arrow keys - then you turn the power button off.'

It's a great feature.


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## Nick Batzdorf

bvaughn0402 said:


> I'm not sure if this is an "answer" for this, but wanted to pass this along.



It's not.

If you want to edit, say, sustain pedal on/offs, you want it to be underneath the notes.

Now, there isn't a CC strip chart à la Vision is the most important feature in the universe, in fact there are workarounds I like better than using the Main window - such as separate screensets to show different CCs underneath the notes. But they are all workarounds.


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## Delio Roman

Wow, this seems to be a good and comprehensive update. Excited to try it out!


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## CT

miket said:


> Damn. No Sierra. So it begins....



Actually, I have no idea why I haven't gone to High Sierra yet, since that's my hardware limit. Doing that tonight. Guess I can still be involved for at least another update.


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## bvaughn0402

Nick Batzdorf said:


> It's not.
> 
> If you want to edit, say, sustain pedal on/offs, you want it to be underneath the notes.
> 
> Now, there isn't a CC strip chart à la Vision is the most important feature in the universe, in fact there are workarounds I like better than using the Main window - such as separate screensets to show different CCs underneath the notes. But they are all workarounds.



Thanks, I'm mentioning this to the person I talked to and hopefully they will get back with me their perspective on this.


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## Nick Batzdorf

bvaughn0402 said:


> Thanks, I'm mentioning this to the person I talked to and hopefully they will get back with me their perspective on this.



Just please don't make me sound like an even bigger asshole than I normally am. 

I'm a big Logic fan and I don't want people at Apple to think otherwise.


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## bvaughn0402

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Just please don't make me sound like an even bigger asshole than I normally am.
> 
> I'm a big Logic fan and I don't want people at Apple to think otherwise.



No worries! I won't throw you under the bus!

Can you think of other reasons why the "track fix" won't work?


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## Nick Batzdorf

bvaughn0402 said:


> Can you think of other reasons why the "track fix" won't work?



Oh, it absolutely *works*, it's just not what I'd consider a 1:1 substitute for the feature that people are clamoring for.

I edit controllers in the Piano Roll editor and sometimes the Step editor, and I have a separate screenset for CC2 underneath it.


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## Alex Fraser

From the update notes:
_The 4 pole FM Filter in ES2 now uses significantly less CPU_
How beautifully random a thing to update.

Also, mentions that Sculpture and Ring Mod have had high res interface tweaks.


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## jonathanwright

As real world example of dynamic plugin loading, my 'Orchestral Sketching' template, fully loaded, normally uses 16GB of RAM on startup.

Now it uses 379MB and loads instantly.


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## Alex Fraser

How’s the general stability? I have a fairly “vanilla” setup (no VEP, not much third party etc)

Any show stoppers yet? Would be grateful to hear from brave souls who’ve taken the plunge.


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## Christof

Alex Fraser said:


> How’s the general stability? I have a fairly “vanilla” setup (no VEP, not much third party etc)
> 
> Any show stoppers yet? Would be grateful to hear from brave souls who’ve taken the plunge.


Working in my big template for some hours now, so far everything fluid, snappy and much faster than 10.4.4.


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## jonathanwright

All good here too, in the process of building a mammoth template to test it out. No issues so far.


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## Robin Wade

Alex Fraser said:


> How’s the general stability? I have a fairly “vanilla” setup (no VEP, not much third party etc)
> 
> Any show stoppers yet? Would be grateful to hear from brave souls who’ve taken the plunge.




It’s made a huge difference to a local orchestral project I just fired up. Now runs at 64 samples instead of 1024 previously. No crashes yet but it’s early days... upgrade at your own risk. Those working on time-critical stuff will know better than to go charging in. I’d really like to know if there’s now a different approach to VEPro7 templates required. Has the increased track count led to an easier solution than the VSL provided multi port templates? Looking into it now but would really like to hear people’s experiences with VEP7 / Logic 10.4.5.


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## luke_7

Fantastic update, no crashes, all works great!


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## Alex Fraser

Cheers all. Really appreciate it. Time to backup the old version and upgrade then..


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## rlw

I own Logic Pro X and have 10.4.4 but I can't get the update window. When I go to the link it just shows all the promo and the Open button, but the version I have is 10.4.4. Why can't I get to the update like I do the other times?


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## luke_7

rlw said:


> I own Logic Pro X and have 10.4.4 but I can't get the update window. When I go to the link it just shows all the promo and the Open button, but the version I have is 10.4.4. Why can't I get to the update like I do the other times?



10.13.6 or higher.


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## Christof

Offline bouncing feels much faster as well...


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## jonathanwright

rlw said:


> I own Logic Pro X and have 10.4.4 but I can't get the update window. When I go to the link it just shows all the promo and the Open button, but the version I have is 10.4.4. Why can't I get to the update like I do the other times?



With the Updates window in the App Store selected, go to Store > Reload, and it should appear.


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## Loïc D

I had to update from Sierra to Mojave first (MBPr late 2013) : so far, everything ok
Updated LPX then : ok
Opened my template w/ current project (over 16Gb, laggy, takes 2-3 mins to load, needs freeze, prone to crash) : geez ! Takes 30s, instant playing, no audio dropouts, cpu stands at 50-75%, no crash.
The first minutes with this update put a large smile on my face


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## Alex Fraser

Open Sculpture and set view to 175%. Looks like a high resolution update. Perhaps this is what the Logic team will eventually do with all those old instrument GUI's.


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## jonathanwright

Continuing to build my template, up to 400 tracks now - mostly Kontakt, with around 50 Play's.

Still instant loading and a RAM footprint of 345MB. Super responsive UI.


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## rlw

rlw said:


> I own Logic Pro X and have 10.4.4 but I can't get the update window. When I go to the link it just shows all the promo and the Open button, but the version I have is 10.4.4. Why can't I get to the update like I do the other times?


I placed a support request and secured an appointment later today and just now I was able to see the update. I think the ability to update is a rolling update and I have noticed before that with Logic Prox I don't get the ability to update until several days after the release. I suspect after I put in a support question someone push my update up the food chain so to speak. Now I can't wait to work with it and test it given the reports I have seen thus far.


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## ptram

miket said:


> Actually, I have no idea why I haven't gone to High Sierra yet


Maybe to avoid replacing a nice OS with a can of bugs. Sorry to be the one to say it, but switching to HS is an unavoidable one-way trip to hell.

Paolo


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## Alex Fraser

Wow. This update is great. The dynamic plugin feature is a game changer. Performance all round seems better too. And this is on my "scraping the barrel" combo of 2011 iMac and High Sierra. If I'm "stuck" here until the next Mac purchase, fine by me.

Only one "bug" so far - the text anti-aliasing issue has returned for those of us on non-retina dinosaurs. I can live with it.

Of note: My crusty old iPad Air no longer meets the stated minimum requirements for Logic remote - yet is appears to be working still. Perhaps an impending update will finish it.

A final thought: I'm not convinced that there's a "Logic 11" around the corner anytime soon. We've had numerous interface tweaks, articulation mapping, new synths, drummers, loops, sampler instruments, tempo features, usability tweaks, big automation tweaks, new audio plugins...and now today's update. At this point - what major features would you add to justify a new version? To say we've been spoilt would be a huge understatement!


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## Ashermusic

Apple said some time ago that there would never be a LP 11, just new versions of LP X. So the next major up date would be 10.5 if they stick to that plan.


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## CT

ptram said:


> Maybe to avoid replacing a nice OS with a can of bugs. Sorry to be the one to say it, but switching to HS is an unavoidable one-way trip to hell.
> 
> Paolo



Oh yeah?


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## Alex Fraser

ptram said:


> Maybe to avoid replacing a nice OS with a can of bugs. Sorry to be the one to say it, but switching to HS is an unavoidable one-way trip to hell.
> 
> Paolo


Can't say this is my experience at all, having run it from release and still today.


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## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> Can't say this is my experience at all, having run it from release and still today.



You're on the same generation of machine that I am, so that's encouraging. A little hesitant now though.


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## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> You're on the same generation of machine that I am, so that's encouraging. A little hesitant now though.


If it helps, I've got the new Logic ready to go on my machine and have a bunch of work to do with it this weekend. If you're still undecided come Monday, give me a nudge and I'll give you my findings.


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## ptram

Alex Fraser said:


> Can't say this is my experience at all, having run it from release and still today.


Happy to know it can work. On my Mac mini 2012, I'm still experiencing slow exit from sleep (through improved after careful optimizing), Preview insisting to open PDF files in tabs, whichever the settings, infinitely slow in searching, and an odd mix of Italian/English UI. And something reported by some and experienced a couple times myself: a long wait after reboot, without any notice on what was happening from the system.

However, no major issues to report up to know, as for general stability.

Paolo


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## Alex Fraser

ptram said:


> And something reported by some and experienced a couple times myself: a long wait after reboot, without any notice on what was happening from the system.


Oh, this I can totally agree with. From a cold boot - it's about a 20 min wait before the machine becomes usable. Solved by using sleep and rebooting once in a blue moon.


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## whinecellar

ptram said:


> Maybe to avoid replacing a nice OS with a can of bugs. Sorry to be the one to say it, but switching to HS is an unavoidable one-way trip to hell.
> 
> Paolo



I will say the initial transition to HS was a pain, but it’s been great once I got it dialed in. Many of my issues had to do with the new T2 chip and its Bridge OS, but that all settled down after the recent patch for that. Looking forward to trying this new version of Logic - nice to see many wish list items checked off!


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## jbuhler

ptram said:


> Maybe to avoid replacing a nice OS with a can of bugs. Sorry to be the one to say it, but switching to HS is an unavoidable one-way trip to hell.
> 
> Paolo


Often, it's better once you've made the trip, but it's been rare for full version level system updates not to break things in a fundamental way, though both High Sierra and Mojave went without a hitch for me, even as some of the incremental updates have caused problems, which used to happen only rarely. This next one, though, will be bad and will require replacing a lot of existing software, so I'll likely skip it unless something comes out that requires the new system.


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## InLight-Tone

Wow! I switched to Mac/Logic at the perfect time...


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## babylonwaves

ptram said:


> Maybe to avoid replacing a nice OS with a can of bugs. Sorry to be the one to say it, but switching to HS is an unavoidable one-way trip to hell.


wasn't the case for me at all


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## VinRice

babylonwaves said:


> wasn't the case for me at all



Hi Mr. Babylonwaves - any changes to the Articulation ID scheme that you are aware of?


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## babylonwaves

VinRice said:


> Hi Mr. Babylonwaves - any changes to the Articulation ID scheme that you are aware of?


I haven't found anything yet but I'm sure they've fixed little things.

What I've found is that they apparently fixed this issue where certain Kontakt libraries (SF, Heavyocity etc) spill nonsense data into your recording on other tracks. What you were seeing in the end were strange Fade events in Event Edit. That seems to be gone and a reason to celebrate (at least for me)

Happy Friday, Marc


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## MarcusMaximus

A quick question having searched through some old threads - no doubt I missed something..

Still on Sierra here with 10.4.4, all very stable. HS is the highest I can go on my old Mac. Is it worth upgrading in order to get 10.4.5? I mean, is HS reliable enough at this stage? Thanks.

Yes I've seen the (mixed) comments here from people about HS. Would just like a bit more reassurance before taking the plunge..


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## Nick Batzdorf

MarcusMaximus said:


> A quick question having searched through some old threads - no doubt I missed something..
> 
> Still on Sierra here with 10.4.4, all very stable. HS is the highest I can go on my old Mac. Is it worth upgrading in order to get 10.4.5? I mean, is HS reliable enough at this stage? Thanks.



Yes, although you should make an image backup - not just a backup, an image backup - in case it breaks something other than Logic that you can't live without. HS introduced APFS - the new file system.

I was only using it for a few days on the way to Mojave, but it worked very well. And I've read exactly two complaints about it, both in this thread, one of which is from Dewdman - the guy who says Logic 10.4.5 is a garbage update. 

In general Apple doesn't release OS versions that are too buggy to use, especially when Logic is its own program.

The first time I updated to High Sierra I had to go back to Low Sierra, but the Logic issue I had (inability to find templates) was fixed long ago.


----------



## WindcryMusic

MarcusMaximus said:


> A quick question having searched through some old threads - no doubt I missed something..
> 
> Still on Sierra here with 10.4.4, all very stable. HS is the highest I can go on my old Mac. Is it worth upgrading in order to get 10.4.5? I mean, is HS reliable enough at this stage? Thanks.
> 
> Yes I've seen the (mixed) comments here from people about HS. Would just like a bit more reassurance before taking the plunge..



I updated both of my music computers from Sierra to High Sierra just a week ago. I had viewed this upgrade with hesitation for a long time, but so far it has been entirely painless, and both computers seem to work better and faster now. So I wish I'd done it earlier ... and how fortunate that I did it just in time to keep on upgrading Logic!


----------



## Guavadude

Any reason not to go all the way from Sierra to Mojave? I'm using some 32 bit legacy apps with my MTP Av and Alphatrack but from what I've read, Mojave will still let me use 32 bit apps.


----------



## VinRice

There were bugs initially with High Sierra, especially in disc handling (file system) but that's all fine now. Been running it for months without issue.


----------



## MarcusMaximus

Many thanks for that guys. I've always upgraded the OS by simply downloading and installing and have had zero issues as a result. So I'll have to look into how APFS might affect things and also how to make an image backup this time around. Sounds like a lot of work but also sounds like the update is worth it.


----------



## Dewdman42

If you are going to quote me please do so accurately. I did not ever use the word “garbage”. I said it’s a buggy update and I believe it is. High Sierra has been ok on my mbp until now, but no idea if the problems with LPX 10.4.5 are related to itself, high Sierra or my 2010 mbp


----------



## Dewdman42

MarcusMaximus said:


> Many thanks for that guys. I've always upgraded the OS by simply downloading and installing and have had zero issues as a result. So I'll have to look into how APFS might affect things and also how to make an image backup this time around. Sounds like a lot of work but also sounds like the update is worth it.



I am pretty sure, not positive, that your disk will only be upgraded to APFS if it’s ssd


----------



## Dewdman42

Guavadude said:


> Any reason not to go all the way from Sierra to Mojave? I'm using some 32 bit legacy apps with my MTP Av and Alphatrack but from what I've read, Mojave will still let me use 32 bit apps.



I did that on my 5,1 and it runs great, haven’t had a chance to try LPX 10.4.5 on it though.

32bit apps do still work on it too


----------



## macmac

Between HS and Mojave, does one run better than the other, and particularly on less powerful machines?


----------



## Dewdman42

If you have a metal gpu needed for Mojave it will run better. My geekbench scores went up 20% between Sierra and Mojave. Vep7 performs way better on it too. I skipped high Sierra but I know others that also saw this performance improvement between HS and Mojave.


----------



## macmac

Wow, interesting. Mine does support metal. I will install it on an extra hard drive and migrate my stuff to see how it does...I still have a few 32-bit plugins that I run via 32Lives, not very often but I do like them...hoping they would make the transition. Funny thing was they died in El Cap but came back to life in Sierra.


----------



## Dewdman42

I have had problems with 32lives since upgrading FYI. Not in all hosts though


----------



## macmac

Ew, not good. Did it work in HS or did you skip right over it to Mojave?


----------



## Dewdman42

Skipped over hs and haven’t had a chance to try to work through it but just an FYI. The two I wish I can have are vb3 and Harmor. It’s not the end of the world though have to move on from 32 but sooner or later


----------



## macmac

True...it's just nice to have them though. What to me would be ideal is keeping my computer on Sierra where everything worked and having a new computer on Mojave so I could choose.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Dewdman42 said:


> If you are going to quote me please do so accurately. I did not ever use the word “garbage”. I said it’s a buggy update and I believe it is. High Sierra has been ok on my mbp until now, but no idea if the problems with LPX 10.4.5 are related to itself, high Sierra or my 2010 mbp



Trash? Junk? Refuse? Detritus?

In any case, I haven't found it to be buggy.


----------



## Dewdman42

And you have of course tested every possible situation to know so?

It was and is buggy out if the gate for me. I’ve been seeing others on the internet having problems too. (Shrug)


----------



## Ashermusic

Dewdman42 said:


> I have had problems with 32lives since upgrading FYI. Not in all hosts though



Really? I kicked all the 32 bit stuff out the door about six years ago and said "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."


----------



## Ashermusic

Dewdman42 said:


> And you have of course tested every possible situation to know so?
> 
> It was and is buggy out if the gate for me. I’ve been seeing others on the internet having problems too. (Shrug)



EVERY update on every DAW, creates problems for _some_ users. If it's a few, it's system specific, if it's a lot, it's buggy.


----------



## Dewdman42

It’s not usable in this case so hopefully 10.4.6 will be forthcoming soon


----------



## Ashermusic

Dewdman42 said:


> It’s not usable in this case so hopefully 10.4.6 will be forthcoming soon



Or maybe you need a newer version of the OS?


----------



## Dewdman42

It’s supposed to be able to run on this hardware and os version. If it’s true what you say then they need to change the required specs


----------



## Ashermusic

Dewdman42 said:


> It’s supposed to be able to run on this hardware and os version.




And for many users, it may. Don't make the mistake of thinking because it is happening to _you_, it's happening to everybody, or even most, perhaps only some.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

This whole new feature with disabled tracks, how do we actually take advantage of it and how do we load tracks in the disabled state?

Because so far I cannot see anyway to do this and I also don't see any options to duplicate my tracks anymore... so no idea how to make multiple tracks with already loaded patches


----------



## Dewdman42

Thanks for trying to read my mind but I never implied or said that’s it’s happening to everyone. I can only report my own experience, relative to previous updates and imho this one is buggy. Certainly for me it is. Maybe you should stop trying to shut me up


----------



## Ashermusic

Dewdman42 said:


> Thanks for trying to read my mind but I never implied or said that’s it’s happening to everyone. I can only report my own experience, relative to previous updates and imho this one is buggy. Certainly for me it is. Maybe you should stop trying to shut me up



I am not trying to shut you up but there are newbies who may assume that you are correct, and there is no empirical data yet to suggest it, just your (and a couple of others) anecdotal evidence.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Ashermusic said:


> Or maybe you need a newer version of the OS?


I am currently running on 10.14.5 and I am noticing things are very buggy too.
-Logic reset my layout to default even after setting it User Defaults
-Sometimes the track will respond to the plugin and other times it will not

So there are certainly signs of early tweaks needed I would say


----------



## Ashermusic

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> This whole new feature with disabled tracks, how do we actually take advantage of it and how do we load tracks in the disabled state?
> 
> Because so far I cannot see anyway to do this and I also don't see any options to duplicate my tracks anymore... so no idea how to make multiple tracks with already loaded patches



Enable this pref then make sure that there are no regions in the template or option-click the Power buttons off before you save it.


----------



## VinRice

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> This whole new feature with disabled tracks, how do we actually take advantage of it and how do we load tracks in the disabled state?
> 
> Because so far I cannot see anyway to do this and I also don't see any options to duplicate my tracks anymore... so no idea how to make multiple tracks with already loaded patches



Option On/Off to load/unload a track (track on/off has to be visible obviously). Cmd-D to duplicate a track, same as always, although the contextual menu equivalent seems to have gone.


----------



## Ashermusic

Man, don't you guys ever get tired of posting misinformation?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Ashermusic said:


> Man, don't you guys ever get tired of posting misinformation?


To be fair, they might be referring to the right click menu. 

I agree though that there’s a lot of knee jerk reaction. As always with this stuff, the further from a “vanilla” hardware and software setup you are, the more potential for issues. On my dinosaur iMac, Logic runs noticeably smoother. Anecdotal as always.


----------



## Ashermusic

Alex Fraser said:


> To be fair, they might be referring to the right click menu.
> 
> I agree though that there’s a lot of knee jerk reaction.




Nope.




pe.


----------



## whinecellar

Well, I haven't really put it through its paces yet, but wow - it sure feels a LOT more fluid now on a big 4k display! Opening the mixer and resizing windows was painful before at 4k, but now it's really smooth. I'd be really happy with just that one big improvement - but as usual, there's a long list of new stuff to check out! So far so good...


----------



## CT

OS update is done, now for Logic. Hopefully I'll have no snags to point out here.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Alex Fraser said:


> To be fair, they might be referring to the right click menu.
> 
> I agree though that there’s a lot of knee jerk reaction. As always with this stuff, the further from a “vanilla” hardware and software setup you are, the more potential for issues. On my dinosaur iMac, Logic runs noticeably smoother. Anecdotal as always.


I was referring to this button here:






I was clicking it before with my Kontakt instance on the track and some patches loaded, however it was not duplicating the track with the Kontakt instance, only creating an empty channel strip. Tried deleting and repeating with the same results.

Now on my 4th time loading up LPX it is working as expected.
So that was my query to see if anyone else was having issues.


----------



## Ashermusic

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I was referring to this button here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was clicking it before with my Kontakt instance on the track and some patches loaded, however it was not duplicating the track with the Kontakt instance, only creating an empty channel strip. Tried deleting and repeating with the same results.
> 
> Now on my 4th time loading up LPX it is working as expected.
> So that was my query to see if anyone else was having issues.



And again, it works as expected here.


----------



## 5Lives

Great to see a disable track feature finally! Now if only they added some more midi / CC / velocity editing stuff from Cubase (like CC compression, more contrast in note names, drum editor).


----------



## Simon Ravn

Amazing update. GUI much faster, loading of projects faster etc. A lot of improvements. However, "dynamic project loading" was the first I turned off... Very annoying having to wait for a plugin to load if you switch to a track you haven't used before. And if you're using VEP as server anyway there isn't much to save memory-wise anyway. I guess it could make sense to use for some though, especially if they have a huge template without VEP.


----------



## ptram

5Lives said:


> CC compression


Isn't this something you can do with a MIDI FX plugin, and/or a Transform operation like Scale or Division?

(Sorry if the names are not exactly these ones, but I’m not at the Mac)

Paolo


----------



## Garry

...logs into VI-C to share excitement about an amazing FREE update that has transformed my workflow and given what MANY have been hoping for for a long time... reads 3 pages of bickering... closes VI-C deflated...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

5Lives said:


> Great to see a disable track feature finally! Now if only they added some more midi / CC / velocity editing stuff from Cubase (like CC compression, more contrast in note names, drum editor).



It has all of that.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Garry said:


> ...logs into VI-C to share excitement about an amazing FREE update that has transformed my workflow and given what MANY have been hoping for for a long time... reads 3 pages of bickering... closes VI-C deflated...



It is a great update.


----------



## dgburns

Garry said:


> ...logs into VI-C to share excitement about an amazing FREE update that has transformed my workflow and given what MANY have been hoping for for a long time... reads 3 pages of bickering... closes VI-C deflated...



Shake it off ! (yes, I just quoted Taylor Swift)


----------



## Garry

dgburns said:


> Shake it off ! (yes, I just quoted Taylor Swift)


Oh no, now I'm inspired to generate mindless crap:

Ooh baby, c'mon won't you give it me tonight.
With super fasting loading times, yeah I'm feelin' alright,
Templates that were gigabytes, now so very small,
With this super smooth GUI, babe we'll be rockin this damn hall.

So come on baby, let's go crazy, see what it can do,
Mojave or Sierra, its the DAW that's right for you.
So come on baby, let's go crazy, we can make it sweet honey,
And with lyrics as crap this, we're gonna make a ton of money!

Repeat x500 (or until YouTube/iTunes/Spotify is no longer monetizing replays).


----------



## 5Lives

Nick Batzdorf said:


> It has all of that.



Would love to know where. I can change the contrast of the midi note names? There’s a midi drum editor?


----------



## 5Lives

ptram said:


> Isn't this something you can do with a MIDI FX plugin, and/or a Transform operation like Scale or Division?
> 
> (Sorry if the names are not exactly these ones, but I’m not at the Mac)
> 
> Paolo



I’d prefer to do it with the transform operation (way fewer clicks than an FX plugin which would also be nondestructive so then another step to bake it in), but haven’t found the right way via transform (after a lot of searching). Cubase’s handles are pretty fast so maybe Apple will implement something like that.


----------



## VinRice

Ashermusic said:


> Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pe.



I'm clearly going blind. I really didn't see that. Has it always been there? I could have sworn it was just Duplicate Track in previous incarnations. Anyway, all good.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Garry said:


> ...logs into VI-C to share excitement about an amazing FREE update that has transformed my workflow and given what MANY have been hoping for for a long time... reads 3 pages of bickering... closes VI-C deflated...


I'll throw the thread some positivity. I've been working the new Logic this afternoon. Seems like performance throughout the program as been upped, even on little things like duplicating and renaming tracks. And Logic remote hasn't fallen over once. The Logic devs must have swept through the program codebase. Props where due, I'm happy right now and I'm all in on this idea of continuously building on the Logic X "core."


----------



## ptram

5Lives said:


> I’d prefer to do it with the transform operation


Thinking about compression of data in the CC lane: I forgot that you can select all or some points, and then change them proportionally by grabbing and dragging a point. Value changes are absolute when dragging lines, proportional/relative when dragging points. It should be similar to compression.

At least, so I seem to remember.

Paolo


----------



## bvaughn0402

Can't wait to see some tutorial videos showing off Template building in Logic now with the new disable feature.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

5Lives said:


> Would love to know where. I can change the contrast of the midi note names? There’s a midi drum editor?



Changing the contrast of the note names... I don't know what that is.

But if you want to edit MIDI drum parts that way, view the piano roll like this. That part only has three drums, but if you use more notes they'll show up.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Or do it this way:


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

There's also a hi-hat mode, which groups lanes together (e.g. open, half open, closed HH). You click the dots on the left of the instrument names for them to join.


----------



## 5Lives

Ah yes - knew about those. Thanks. Unfortunately, not quite what’s I was referring to, but still handy!

Going to give it a go today making a template with this new version.


----------



## Ashermusic

I will say this, please understand that I am _not_ denying anyone's issues, or faulting _anybody_, staying they are doing anything wrong, etc.

I have used Logic since 1.0. I don't remember even a single update that didn't work OK for most users, not ok for some. Same for my friends with Cubase and DP. Because there are so many Macs with so many OS versions, so many third party plug-ins, etc. this will probably always be the case.


----------



## Guavadude

Ashermusic said:


> I will say this, please understand that I am _not_ denying anyone's issues, or faulting _anybody_, staying they are doing anything wrong, etc.
> 
> I have used Logic since 1.0. I don't remember even a single update that didn't work OK for most users, not ok for some. Same for my friends with Cubase and DP. Because there are so many Macs with so many OS versions, so many third party plug-ins, etc. this will probably always be the case.



The only one that really sucked was 10.4.3 and even they acknowledged it by releasing a quick update. Way too many moving parts in these rigs. I'm pretty leary of moving to Mojave but feel I better do it before the next major OS and then it disappears. I miss the old days of being able to download the combo updater and always get back to something that worked fairly quickly.


----------



## robh

Shoot!
The update broke a custom script of mine.


----------



## Hans-Peter

10.4.5 breaks Controller Surfaces implementation to access track data.

Well, if that’s not a major f*** u* ...


----------



## Dewdman42

robh said:


> Shoot!
> The update broke a custom script of mine.



how so?


----------



## Dewdman42

I'm checking out Scripter and noticing that some things have been added to support the "port" attribute of AU3...so.. That is great news...but most likely they have updated EventTypes.js....and some internal stuff... Please let us know what is broken...we can jointly file some bug reports related to that if so...


----------



## 5Lives

Running into something confusing - setting up a template and opt-click the power button for the tracks to disable them, save the template. But when I open that template, all of those plugins appear "active" even though the track power button is off and Logic seems to load the plugins when opening the template. The project setting is set to only load plugins dynamically - any ideas?

Edit: Seems to be working fine now. Not sure why. Now, if only we had plugin / track search and folder stacks within folder stacks!


----------



## robh

Dewdman42 said:


> how so?


Difficult to trace at this point. Certain variables at certain points get royally messed up - for example, I have a variable called "cc99" which is set for cc99 (cc99.number = 99). At certain points in the script that number somehow gets set to something else. I suspect it has something to do with executing an event.send within a custom function, as doing a trace within those functions reveal it screwing up there. I'm also not sure if any other part of the script isn't working. I only managed to catch that one so far. But I don't have the time to actually test it thoroughly and adjust any code for several days. At this point I would have no idea how to report this to Apple either. I've rolled back for now. It worked perfectly fine in 10.4.4.

Rob


----------



## Dewdman42

Getting a Scripter 10.4.5 discussion going here: https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=142778

Please come join and report your findings and hopefully we can get to the bottom of it.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

5Lives said:


> Ah yes - knew about those. Thanks. Unfortunately, not quite what’s I was referring to, but still handy!
> 
> Going to give it a go today making a template with this new version.



You can also import samples into Ultrabeat and use its step sequencer.


----------



## 5Lives

Nick Batzdorf said:


> You can also import samples into Ultrabeat and use its step sequencer.



That is very painful  Ultrabeat desperately needs to be updated.


----------



## Eric Hunter

Guavadude said:


> The only one that really sucked was 10.4.3 and even they acknowledged it by releasing a quick update. Way too many moving parts in these rigs. I'm pretty leary of moving to Mojave but feel I better do it before the next major OS and then it disappears. I miss the old days of being able to download the combo updater and always get back to something that worked fairly quickly.


What was wrong with 10.4.3? Not that I'm a power user, but I'm still on it and I've noticed more bugs in previous versions. Should I upgrade to 10.4.4? This latest update sounds great, but I'm nervous as I'm on a Hackintosh and the last time I tried to install High Sierra its performance was abysmal.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

5Lives said:


> That is very painful  Ultrabeat desperately needs to be updated.



Just pointing it out.

I personally don't use it or any drum machine-style thing, I play drum parts in like everything else. My first MIDI setup was a Yamaha DX-7, hardware sequencer, and drum machine. I programmed patterns in the drum machine *once* before making an A/B MIDI switch between it and the DX-7 so I could play drum parts on the machine's pads into the sequencer's single MIDI input. My brain just doesn't work in patterns.

My take on Ultrabeat is that it's intentionally cheesy, and updating it would be putting cheese on top of cheese.


----------



## Guavadude

Eric Hunter said:


> What was wrong with 10.4.3? Not that I'm a power user, but I'm still on it and I've noticed more bugs in previous versions. Should I upgrade to 10.4.4? This latest update sounds great, but I'm nervous as I'm on a Hackintosh and the last time I tried to install High Sierra its performance was abysmal.



Logic 10.4.3 had an issue where it would throw up an error saying the files were unreadable or something like that. Basically made it so you couldn't load sessions. 
It wasn't an isolated issue, lots of people had it. That was the only time I had to go back a version, and 10.4.4 has been solid but I'm starting to get enough occasional weirdness and random crashes that I think it's time to install Mojave.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Eric Hunter said:


> What was wrong with 10.4.3? Not that I'm a power user, but I'm still on it and I've noticed more bugs in previous versions. Should I upgrade to 10.4.4? This latest update sounds great, but I'm nervous as I'm on a Hackintosh and the last time I tried to install High Sierra its performance was abysmal.


Mojave on my Hack is great, really like the dark mode. Logic 10.4.5 good so far but I'm far from a power user......yet.


----------



## Eric Hunter

Guavadude said:


> Logic 10.4.3 had an issue where it would throw up an error saying the files were unreadable or something like that. Basically made it so you couldn't load sessions.
> It wasn't an isolated issue, lots of people had it. That was the only time I had to go back a version, and 10.4.4 has been solid but I'm starting to get enough occasional weirdness and random crashes that I think it's time to install Mojave.


Ah, I see. Come to think of it I did run into that problem once. I think I just imported all my data into a new session, but it would be a huge pain if I had to do that with multiple projects. I think at the time 4.3 was new and I didn't even know it was a bug.


InLight-Tone said:


> Mojave on my Hack is great, really like the dark mode. Logic 10.4.5 good so far but I'm far from a power user......yet.


Nice! What videocard are you running? I think the last time I looked it seemed like I would need to upgrade.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Eric Hunter said:


> Ah, I see. Come to think of it I did run into that problem once. I think I just imported all my data into a new session, but it would be a huge pain if I had to do that with multiple projects. I think at the time 4.3 was new and I didn't even know it was a bug.
> 
> Nice! What videocard are you running? I think the last time I looked it seemed like I would need to upgrade.


I'm using the Sapphire 11265-05-20G Radeon Pulse RX 580 8GB recommended on the TonyMacX86 site. Flawless install, no issues...


----------



## Kent

There is a funny bug I've been noticing; I wonder if anybody else has experienced this?

Now that "only plugins needed for project playback" is enabled by default on a per-project basis, one multi instrument channel track connected in the Environment to two instrument channels only activates the first one. 

In other words, here's my specific case:

Multi Instrument "Violins" connects to Channel A ("Violins I") and Channel B ("Violins II") - this is so I can use both as a single section but have the option to split them out if necessary.

In 10.4.5 with "only plugins needed for project playback" _enabled_, channel A ("Violins I") plays but channel B (Violins II") is silent on play after project load. Toggling the multi instrument track on/off, or selecting a different articulation, enables channel B.

In 10.4.4 and before, and 10.4.5 with "only plugins needed for project playback" _disabled_, both tracks work as expected on play after project load.

...I hope that makes sense 

Can anybody else reproduce this? It's consistent on my rig.


----------



## Saxer

If Logic is searching the tracks for events and there's nothing to 'see' the instrument isn't switched on. Seems logical to me rather than a bug because your B-section track is empty. If you want it to load you could place a dummy event on that track or - instead of the environment connection - put A and B into a track stack. That way you can record on the summing track playing A and B simultaneously or each of its own on the instrument track.


----------



## Hayden

Has anyone noticed that Beat Mapping in 10.4.5 doesn’t seem to be working properly?


----------



## jmm

Hayden said:


> Has anyone noticed that Beat Mapping in 10.4.5 doesn’t seem to be working properly?


YES!!! I was trying to create a tempo map for a video yesterday and beat mapping would intermittently stop working. It's hard to describe the issue and harder to reliably trigger it. Basically my usual process is making/selecting scene markers then clicking/dragging in the beat mapping track. After making a few changes, clicking in the beat mapping track wouldn't do anything. I'd then close and reopen the project and it would work as normal. 

Is this similar to your issue?


----------



## dgburns

Garry said:


> Oh no, now I'm inspired to generate mindless crap:
> 
> Ooh baby, c'mon won't you give it me tonight.
> With super fasting loading times, yeah I'm feelin' alright,
> Templates that were gigabytes, now so very small,
> With this super smooth GUI, babe we'll be rockin this damn hall.
> 
> So come on baby, let's go crazy, see what it can do,
> Mojave or Sierra, its the DAW that's right for you.
> So come on baby, let's go crazy, we can make it sweet honey,
> And with lyrics as crap this, we're gonna make a ton of money!
> 
> Repeat x500 (or until YouTube/iTunes/Spotify is no longer monetizing replays).



Calm down there Tiger


----------



## jonathanwright

Okay, so I've now finished replicating my Cubase disabled track template in Logic. They are _almost_ identical with regards the number of VI's and both run to just over 600 instrument tracks.

It’s not a completely like for like comparison though. There are a few differences, primarily the use of the stock EQ etc in each DAW.

On loading up each template, the results are:

*Cubase*
1.7GB RAM
25% CPU at rest.

*Logic*
727MB RAM
5.2% CPU at rest.

I’m yet to put Logic through it’s paces by starting a live project, but so far it’s looking promising.


----------



## Kent

Saxer said:


> If Logic is searching the tracks for events and there's nothing to 'see' the instrument isn't switched on. Seems logical to me rather than a bug because your B-section track is empty. If you want it to load you could place a dummy event on that track or - instead of the environment connection - put A and B into a track stack. That way you can record on the summing track playing A and B simultaneously or each of its own on the instrument track.


Sure, but I’m talking about when playing things in. Both channels (with their respective plugins) are off, but then only one works, when performing a part with the option enabled (thus making them both "necessary for playback"). That seems like a bug to me.


----------



## Hayden

jmm said:


> YES!!! I was trying to create a tempo map for a video yesterday and beat mapping would intermittently stop working. It's hard to describe the issue and harder to reliably trigger it. Basically my usual process is making/selecting scene markers then clicking/dragging in the beat mapping track. After making a few changes, clicking in the beat mapping track wouldn't do anything. I'd then close and reopen the project and it would work as normal.
> 
> Is this similar to your issue?



Yes, sounds very similar — and it’s inconsistent to the point whereby Beat Mapping is currently unreliable, and thus, unusable. I’m sure Apple will deal with this soon, but, as with any updates, one (me) should never update in the middle of a project (it’s just that this update is generally so robust and excellent).


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

kmaster said:


> In 10.4.4 and before, and 10.4.5 with "only plugins needed for project playback" _disabled_, both tracks work as expected on play after project load.



How can this be disabled?


----------



## Kent

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> How can this be disabled?


per-project, File>Project Settings>General>Opening Project


----------



## Ashermusic

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> How can this be disabled?



Just uncheck it.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

kmaster said:


> per-project, File>Project Settings>General>Opening Project



Thanks, I was looking at the wrong place.


----------



## Dewdman42

Eric Hunter said:


> What was wrong with 10.4.3? Not that I'm a power user, but I'm still on it and I've noticed more bugs in previous versions. Should I upgrade to 10.4.4? This latest update sounds great, but I'm nervous as I'm on a Hackintosh and the last time I tried to install High Sierra its performance was abysmal.



I know someone else that upgraded their hackintosh to Mojave and saw real performance improvements, but make sure you have a metal card.


----------



## prodigalson

Anyone else having issues with the playhead becoming disabled after a period of time? It works normally on opening but after some time it suddenly become inactive. scrolling back and forth works but the playhead won't move and its not possible to click on the timeline to move it. 

To me, it's kind of a deal breaker bug!


----------



## 5Lives

Disabled tracks was one of the main reasons I bought the Cubase 10 cross grade a while back but this update really is making me consider going back to Logic. Personally find it much cleaner and more streamlined - and I like the articulations system better too. Never crashes on me which is more than I can say with Cubase. Hopefully Apple adds folder track nesting and multiple CC edit lanes soon.


----------



## jonathanwright

After working with it for a short while, I’ve found that the best approach with disabled tracks is to use them in tandem with automatic loading of tracks.

So I’ve manually disabled all of the tracks in my template (alt on/off button), to prevent accidentally enabling tracks by selecting them when I load up a new project.

I’ve assigned a key command to switch tracks on, to save having to navigate to the track header every time.

Then when I load the project later, Logic can still do its automatic thing.


----------



## Gaffable

jonathanwright said:


> I’ve assigned a key command to switch tracks on, to save having to navigate to the track header every time.



Just curious - which key command are you using? In Logic 10.4.5, the "Toggle Track On" command (Option-M) does not work properly. It only turns off tracks. It doesn't turn them on.


----------



## jonathanwright

Yep, that's the same command I'm using, I've set it to '+' on the number keypad.

I still need to alt-click the on/off button to disable a track, I can only think the key command doesn't switch off a track because the user may only want to bypass the CPU, rather than unload everything.

Hopefully they'll expand on the key commands in subsequent updates. As it stands, any tracks I don't need will be disabled on the next project load anyway.


----------



## Alex Fraser

jonathanwright said:


> After working with it for a short while, I’ve found that the best approach with disabled tracks is to use them in tandem with automatic loading of tracks.
> 
> So I’ve manually disabled all of the tracks in my template (alt on/off button), to prevent accidentally enabling tracks by selecting them when I load up a new project.
> 
> I’ve assigned a key command to switch tracks on, to save having to navigate to the track header every time.
> 
> Then when I load the project later, Logic can still do its automatic thing.


Yep, I found the same. Plugins springing to life when clicking the wrong track gets old quickly. It's great that we can manually override it. It's a nicely thought out system and something that I've been fantasising about for a long time.


----------



## stonzthro

jonathanwright said:


> Okay, so I've now finished replicating my Cubase disabled track template in Logic. They are _almost_ identical with regards the number of VI's and both run to just over 600 instrument tracks.



How large is the actual template file? I tried creating one of about 400 tracks and it was over 1.3GB, which seems like a lot for a template! Not talking about RAM loaded, but the actual file size.


----------



## jonathanwright

stonzthro said:


> How large is the actual template file? I tried creating one of about 400 tracks and it was over 1.3GB, which seems like a lot for a template! Not talking about RAM loaded, but the actual file size.



It's 439MB. Although the project file I was working on to create the template was much larger, as it included backups etc.


----------



## Garlu

The best part of the update for me:
Splitting a region makes new "dots" with all cc's values used, so, it's easy to move around, without losing the current cc's values you had at that point! (mod, expression, or whatever you are using!!!!).


----------



## babylonwaves

stonzthro said:


> How large is the actual template file? I tried creating one of about 400 tracks and it was over 1.3GB, which seems like a lot for a template! Not talking about RAM loaded, but the actual file size.


did you clean up the project before you've saved it? File > Project Management > Clean Up


----------



## stonzthro

Yes, I cleaned it up a few times - I'll check it out again later today. Thanks!


----------



## Guavadude

The move from Sierra to Mojave and then Logic 10.4.5 was seamless for me. 
Except that whenever the Alphatrack bundle is in Logic’s midi devices folder, Logic crashes as soon as I add an instrument. Does anyone have an Alphatrack they could test and lmk if they are getting a similar issue. 

I hate to lose my flying fader with touch automation and the newer Presonus Faderport isn’t a good replacement with Logic from what I’ve read.


----------



## Ashermusic

jonathanwright said:


> After working with it for a short while, I’ve found that the best approach with disabled tracks is to use them in tandem with automatic loading of tracks.
> 
> 
> .



I too am thinking that's the way to go, but still in the experimenting stage.


----------



## Guavadude

Ashermusic said:


> I too am thinking that's the way to go, but still in the experimenting stage.



Does this mean leaving the load pref on or off? Thinking I could use the auto function but put a region in the tracks I want to be initially loaded like my drum VIs.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

jonathanwright said:


> I’ve assigned a key command to switch tracks on, to save having to navigate to the track header every time.



So obvious, and it didn't occur to me! Thanks.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Guavadude said:


> Does this mean leaving the load pref on or off? Thinking I could use the auto function but put a region in the tracks I want to be initially loaded like my drum VIs.



For me it's mixing and matching.

I figure I'm always going to want a piano loaded for working out ideas, so I leave that on. But I don't always need my favorite Omnisphere patches.


----------



## Guavadude

Got the Alphatrack working!!!!!!!!!!!!
The problem was obviously in the Alphatrack bundle that goes in the midi devices folder. As soon as I remove that, Logic stops crashing. I left all of the other Alphatrack files in place, trashed the CS prefs one more time and tried the Alphatrack in HUI mode. No luck.

So I tried it again in Final Cut Pro MCU mode on the Alphatrack Manager and manually added the MCU Pro control surface in CS setups in Logic. Eureka!!
Flying fader, touch automation and even the transport functions seem to be working. I typically only use the fader but that's working without a hitch. (almost)

You can grab these super cheap and having a single motorized fader makes a big difference when you just want to tweak something quickly. The fader can be a little noisy so I just unplug it and plug it back in when needed.

Say what you want about me, I'm a tenacious MoFo!!! Never give up, never say die! They may take our lives but they will never take.... our Freedom!!

Actually went back and the Baby HUI module in Logic with the Alphatrack in HUI mode is working best. Still having an issue with it not following selected tracks like it used to do with it's own midi device profile so I'm having to scroll to the track I want to automate. I may try doing a custom control surface setup when I have more time.


----------



## Dewdman42

Scripter appears to be broken in 10.4.5, perhaps badly. Anyone depending on Scripter for articulation management or other things should strongly consider using 10.4.4 until further notice. 

Some very simple scripts may work fine, some may not. 

Anyone interested in following developments related to this can go here:

https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=142778

Please come report the issues you may be having with it.


----------



## Ashermusic

Dewdman42 said:


> Scripter appears to be broken in 10.4.5, perhaps badly. Anyone depending on Scripter for articulation management or other things should strongly consider using 10.4.4 until further notice.
> 
> Some very simple scripts may work fine, some may not.
> 
> Anyone interested in following developments related to this can go here:
> 
> https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=142778
> 
> Please come report the issues you may be having with it.



After installing the update, when I opened my template it seemed that some of the ArtZ ID articulation sets has some empty entries that I had deleted that met them from working properly until I again deleted them, but the ArtZ ID Scripter scripts were fine and now seems back to normal.


----------



## Dewdman42

some very simple scripts may work, as I said. however, much about the Event object is broken now. Try turning on tracing of events and you will see some of it. I'm finding more and more. In my opinion they attempted to add port support for AU3, but broke it badly. Mileage may very if your script isn't using the functions affected


----------



## Ashermusic

Understood. The only scripts I use are Peter’s so I just wanted to comment on those.


----------



## Dewdman42

basically, it looks like EventTypes.js is not being sourced any more. So event object cloning probably doesn't work right. For sure event.toString() doesn't work anymore. some other stuff. My opinion is they switched over to using native objects for events. That probably means nothing to you, but what it means in layman's terms is that Event objets are not true javascript objects anymore in Scripter. They are a thin wrapper around something internal. Since they aren't true javascript objects anymore, as they were before, certain scripting assumptions that might assume that to be the case could be broken...the script might appear to run but do weird things sometimes, etc.. Honestly, they probably broke a lot of people's scripts with this version unless its just an oversight they can quickly fix.


----------



## Dewdman42

If I were Peter I'd do some careful testing right now with 10.4.5 to make sure he's not affected. AG's stuff is more complicated and probably definitely IS affected, but only they will know... My own homegrown stuff is definitely broken by it.


----------



## Ashermusic

Dewdman42 said:


> If I were Peter I'd do some careful testing right now with 10.4.5 to make sure he's not affected. .



He's out of town but I will forward these to him. Thanks Dewdman 42 for being on top of it.


----------



## robh

Dewdman42 said:


> If I were Peter I'd do some careful testing right now with 10.4.5 to make sure he's not affected. AG's stuff is more complicated and probably definitely IS affected, but only they will know... My own homegrown stuff is definitely broken by it.


Glad to see it's not just me. I made the mistake of updating in the middle of a project (I know, I know!  ) so I've had to roll back for now. In the meantime, I've reported it to Apple.

Rob


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Dewdman42 said:


> Scripter appears to be broken in 10.4.5, perhaps badly. Anyone depending on Scripter for articulation management or other things should strongly consider using 10.4.4 until further notice.


Is there anyone running NoamL's Thanos script for Cinematic Studio Strings on 10.4.5 who can confirm it works okay?


----------



## 5Lives

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Is there anyone running NoamL's Thanos script for Cinematic Studio Strings on 10.4.5 who can confirm it works okay?



The legato timing fix seems to work but articulation switching to non-legato articulations isn't working for me for some reason (Granted, I have never used this script prior to 10.4.5, so maybe I'm doing something wrong). Very cool script assuming it fully gets working!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

5Lives said:


> The legato timing fix seems to work but articulation switching to non-legato articulations isn't working for me for some reason (Granted, I have never used this script prior to 10.4.5, so maybe I'm doing something wrong). Very cool script assuming it fully gets working!


To switch between legato/non-legato I still just use good old-fashioned key switches, though there is probably a better way. 

EDIT: Sorry, I now see you didn't mean toggling legato on and off. You are saying that you're stuck on sustains and can't switch to other articulations? That doesn't sound good. I'll hold off a little longer on the Logic update.


----------



## A.G

Dewdman42 said:


> AG's stuff is more complicated and probably definitely IS affected, but only they will know...


AG stuff is not complicated and works perfectly on 10.4.5 without any editing. It is well known that AG stuff can work with the advanced AG Scripter or with the Logic factory Articulation system. In any case AG system offers numerous alternatives to work without any problems... 
For example, if Apple implement a bug in the Scripter, then the AG users can store their AG EDITOR Maps as Logic Articulation Sets and go on...


----------



## Dewdman42

hurray for you. Scripter is broken though. I'd test your stuff carefully before saying that. The problems could be subtle and result in incorrect behavior.

You can read more here: 

https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=142778

I have been contacted by Apple about my bug report, we'll see where it gets..


----------



## A.G

Dewdman42 said:


> I'd test your stuff carefully before saying that.



I do believe that you have tested AG, but I assure you that the AG EDITOR, Scripter Text automation and ART IDs systems work as expected (AT+ID). A lot of AG testers sent us positive reports using various 3rd party libraries. Bear in mind that I use a very special style of Java scripting which cannot be destroyed by regular Java or Apple changes (at least 90%). As you know you cannot read my encrypted style... It is rock...


----------



## Dewdman42

I have not tested AG. I have tested scripter and it’s broken. I advise anyone using scripter to either avoid 10.4.5 or test very carefully your scripts. If ag works without scripter then you should be fine obviously


----------



## Dewdman42

Just as one simple example of a Scripter 10.4.5 problem, try this simple test in Scripter:



Code:


    var firstNote = new NoteOn;
    firstNote.pitch = 24;
    firstNote.trace();
    var secondNote = new NoteOn;
    firstNote.trace();



The above code traces the firstNote object twice. It should be the same both times, but notice that values from the secondNote object are overwritten over the firstNote object for inexplicable reason.



Code:


Script evaluated successfully!
[NoteOn channel:1 pitch:24 [C0] velocity:100]
[NoteOn channel:1 pitch:100 [E6] velocity:100]



Scripter 10.4.5 is fundamentally broken for this reason alone. Some simple scripts MIGHT work ok, or might be sending incorrect midi out and you may not realize it. If you never create any new Event objects in your script, then probably will be ok, notwithstanding other problems.

And there are other problems because EventTypes.js is no longer being included. And Event objects are not true javascript objects any more. So actually if you get into more advanced programming with javascript, it breaks stuff all over the place. But the above problem is essentially data corruption by the Scripter engine. Scripter 10.4.5 should not be trusted IMHO at all, but if you test extensively you may find its ok if your scripts are extremely simple. Or might not... But test carefully is all I can say...or stick with 10.4.4 for now.


----------



## JonesyXL

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Is there anyone running NoamL's Thanos script for Cinematic Studio Strings on 10.4.5 who can confirm it works okay?


Bad news, Thanos doesn't work in 10.4.5. It's not just you @5Lives.


----------



## bvaughn0402

Dewdman42 said:


> Just as one simple example of a Scripter 10.4.5 problem, try this simple test in Scripter:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> var firstNote = new NoteOn;
> firstNote.pitch = 24;
> firstNote.trace();
> var secondNote = new NoteOn;
> firstNote.trace();



Would this post summarize the problem in your mind? If so, I wanted to pass it to the guy inside Logic I know for him to test.


----------



## Dewdman42

I submitted a bug report and I did get an automated email from Apple from a user called "Mike Audio" to send a project and info, which I did and haven't heard back again, and based on past experience i don't expect to. But I'd appreciate being able to communicate with someone directly.

From what I can see, they changed the internal representation of Event objects, to something that is more of an internal objective-C object with a thin javascript wrapper around it... I'm sure they had some good reason to do so, but they have not provided complete javascript compatibility which was there before. Its half baked. There are numerous ramifications of this, I have found half a dozen, so far... I'm documenting what I find here:

https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=142778

and anyone else is welcome to contribute what they find too, but in a nutshell, I think they made a major change to the internal structures used in Scripter, and in the process they have broken both javascript compatibility, compatibility with scripts that are already out there, and at least in the case I mentioned above, there are also some internal bugs in their new approach which must be fixed no matter what they do.


----------



## Guavadude

The scroll wheel on my mouse no longer works to adjust pan knob width or sends. Bummer. Is this happening for anyone else?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Guavadude said:


> The scroll wheel on my mouse no longer works to adjust pan knobs or sends. Bummer. Is this happening for anyone else?



I didn't know you could do that in previous versions! But it doesn't work on my Magic Mouse (which is the same as a scroll wheel).


----------



## Guavadude

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I didn't know you could do that in previous versions! But it doesn't work on my Magic Mouse (which is the same as a scroll wheel).



You have to position the pointer so white tips of the pan range light up then you could use the scroll wheel to narrow the stereo spread. Much better control than using the mouse itself because the pan always ends up changing direction by accident when you’re just trying to narrow the spread.


----------



## A3D2

I am late in the game as I only upgraded to Logic X a month ago: I was previously still using Logic 9 for all my editing and composing duties and I must say I am very happy with Logic X and especially with the 10.4.5 update . I use it on a Macbook Pro 2013 and I must say Logic is running really fast.


----------



## jonathanwright

Performance wise, the new update is fantastic. Incredible even.

I’ve set up a huge template, and my main issue now is a lack of track management features for large templates - such as searching for a track, and advanced showing/hiding.


----------



## Garry

jonathanwright said:


> Performance wise, the new update is fantastic. Incredible even.
> 
> I’ve set up a huge template, and my main issue now is a lack of track management features for large templates - such as searching for a track, and advanced showing/hiding.


If you build your template based on Logic user patches, you can use the Logic library, and there you can use their search function to include your own (non-Logic) libraries. Highly recommend this approach. To make things even more identifiable, use custom icons, and you will get a nice big (and resizable) image of that library in the Logic library window (not just the tiny icon you have on each track)

Advanced showing/hiding: personally, I have my user patches then saved as folder stacks (eg brass section) and in each folder stack I have libraries saved as summed stacks (eg Albion One), as summed stacks can be nested under folder stacks, under which are each of the user patches for that library. Then I have all of the tracks for a given section as a single group. Then, I have buttons on my XTouch set up to toggle show/hide group 1 (eg percussion), group 2 (eg strings), etc. That way, I can show/hide a whole section immediately, and then within that section, drop down folders/stacks to quickly get to what I need.

As I build a piece, I then hit 'H' (Show/Hide All), and unhide any used tracks. Then, by just pressing H, I can go from my full template, to only showing tracks currently in use on that piece.

I love the Logic update - I'd previously set up all this, but couldn't run it properly on my system, which was frustrating. Now, my template can be as large as needed (currently around 500 tracks) on my single machine with 1 SSD, and I can rapidly access anything (with the template taking just 1.8Gb RAM!! Incredible!) For me, this is my dream setup and I love using it.

Here's a screenshot with just my 'sketching' group visible (all others hidden): you can see the folder structure in the middle, and on the left the use of the Logic library for user patches, and the search bar.


----------



## jonathanwright

I have got an extensive amount of Logic patches, and make use of summing stacks, but unfortunately they don’t work nearly as fluidly (for me) as using visibility options in Cubase.

In Cubase, I have every track I need disabled and hidden, I like to start with what looks like a ‘blank’ project. 

Using the CMD-F key command, a pop up box allows me to search for any track, show and enable it. It’s one click and so easy.

I’ve also set up a few Macros, that will show certain libraries at once. So if I fancy creating a Spitfire project, or a Orchestral Tools project, I press one key and the relevant tracks are in front of me. All from one template.

Of course Logic _way_ out performs Cubase on my machine, no doubt about that. But workflow wise, Cubase still clinches it for me in this respect.


----------



## Garry

Ok, I can't comment on Cubase, since my last version was over 20 years ago!! But, for me, my Cubase-envy is over. Disable tracks was such a game-changing feature that I often considered moving to Cubase just for that. No longer! I'm not even sure what Apple could do to improve Logic at this point! If I was in the market for a computer, I would now buy a Mac purely for Logic - for me, it really is that good.

Also, all of what you mention is entirely doable now in Logic too. Not trying to persuade you, each to their preference, it's just that you asked how you would do this in Logic.


----------



## Guavadude

@Garry great setup tips. Feel free to post more screenshots. 
I’d also like to see Logic have a track find feature. Everyone, please be sure to send Logic feedback with requests. 

Are you using VEP at all with Logic? The update is great but still doesn’t solve the one cpu choking issue for me the way VEP does.


----------



## Garry

Guavadude said:


> @Garry great setup tips. Feel free to post more screenshots.
> I’d also like to see Logic have a track find feature. Everyone, please be sure to send Logic feedback with requests.
> 
> Are you using VEP at all with Logic? The update is great but still doesn’t solve the one cpu choking issue for me the way VEP does.



No, I'm not using VEP - I had strongly considered doing so before the update, but I no longer have a need for it.

My only other setup tips:
- make extensive use of screen sets: I have 9 different screen sets, so that I can quickly jump to what I need to focus on (eg piano roll, mixer, instrument panel, etc)
- if you're using logic user patches, make sure to give them unique names (not just unique path directory), otherwise, the correct patch will play, but it may show in the logic library directory as if it's playing the wrong one (it gets confused by patches of the same name in different directories)
- use Logic Colourizer from Creationauts to tweak the UI: the full version is pricey considering what it is ($40 just for simply changing colors!), but the demo version will let you tweak just the main page, which I use to enhance the selected track, and make it standout (see screenshot)
- use the browser window to quickly store chords and chord progressions (see right hand panel in screenshot): I created a project with a single chord on each track, based on a single major and its relative minor key: I have a number of extended chords for each scale degree for both C Major and A Minor, and can then use the transpose feature on a track to cover any key required (below you can see those I used for the 1st scale degree, and some of the 2nd. I can then very quickly create novel chord progressions, without needing that project to be open, but by just pulling in a track into my current project using the browser feature in Logic. I also similarly store chord progressions in the same way, which I imported from those available in Scaler and the Unison chord pack, and again store 1 per track. Need a ii-V-bIII-I? progression. No problem, just pull it in, and it's done! I have these for major/minor and diatonic and extended chords, so just 4 files to cover a good range of options for chord progressions. I have this window on a screenset, so I can quickly pull it up when needed, but it's otherwise out of the way.
- when using the new disabled tracks feature in Logic, set the link in the instrument window to single (purple), not multi (yellow) as I initially did: with it set to multi, the instrument window does not open when switching to a previously unloaded track, but when set to single it does.
- not strictly about setup, but the place I find the most useful, concise points on Logic are from Mikael Baggstrom here: his style is quirky, and won't be to everyone's taste, but I find his short videos really useful and learn something every time.

I'm certainly no Logic expert, but really like this setup now. Hopefully more experienced users can share additional tips they've been able to make better use of since the update?


----------



## WindcryMusic

jonathanwright said:


> Performance wise, the new update is fantastic. Incredible even.
> 
> I’ve set up a huge template, and my main issue now is a lack of track management features for large templates - such as searching for a track, and advanced showing/hiding.



As far as advanced showing/hiding are concerned, what I've done in my Lemur-based template is to maintain an internal array of hide groups with a value for their visible/hidden status. Then I have a row of buttons for filtering down to any one group, and the action on each button iterates over the internal array and toggles the state of each group that needs to be changed (both in the internal array and via group # toggle commands to Logic, which I've assigned in Logic's key command editor) in order to accomplish the desired visibility state. Additionally, I have "Hide Unused" and "Unhide All" buttons that leverage the existing Logic functionality, with the latter also updating the internal array in Lemur so that it remains in sync.

I do recall having needed to introduce a slight delay in between each group command, to give Logic time to respond so that it doesn't miss some of the toggle commands. So it isn't instantaneous ... depending upon the current state, it can take up to maybe half a second or so to reach the requested visibility state (mainly when going from "all rows visible" down to viewing only a specific group).

Note that this only works consistently if group hiding and unhiding are always done via the buttons in Lemur, so that the internal array remains in sync with Logic's state. But I've found that having those buttons in Lemur means I never have any inclination to change group visibility in any other way, so it hasn't presented any problem at all. I'm quite happy with this.


----------



## samphony

jonathanwright said:


> I’ve set up a huge template, and my main issue now is a lack of track management features for large templates - such as searching for a track, and advanced showing/hiding.




Exactly what has to happen sooner than later. I just finished a cue completely in cubase 10. Man did i miss my logic workflow especially when it comes to zooming and scrolling. But the search and track list configuration is great. You can get at least a track show/hide workflow going in logic if you use the 32 groups for that reason. 

I proposed an enhancement request a long time ago and I’m confident that we will see something in that direction in a future update.


----------



## jonathanwright

Thanks for the tips guys, and I don't want you to think I'm criticising Logic, I use is as much as I do Cubase. It's just that now it has such a robust disable/enable feature and increased track count, the next logical (ahem) step would be integrated track search.

Below is the functionality I'm trying to explain. 

My Cubase template below has everything disabled and hidden. I press CMD-F and the search box pops up. It filters track names as I type.

I press enter and the track is unhidden, then I enable it.







Below is how my library templates work. I normally use a key command, but I'm using a Keyboard Maestro palette in this case as a demonstration.

All it's doing is using a logical preset that searches for tracks with a code at the start and unhides them.


----------



## WindcryMusic

jonathanwright said:


> Thanks for the tips guys, and I don't want you to think I'm criticising Logic, I use is as much as I do Cubase. It's just that now it has such a robust disable/enable feature and increased track count, the next logical (ahem) step would be integrated track search.
> 
> Below is the functionality I'm trying to explain.
> 
> My Cubase template below has everything disabled and hidden. I press CMD-F and the search box pops up. It filters track names as I type.
> 
> I press enter and the track is unhidden, then I enable it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Below is how my library templates work. I normally use a key command, but I'm using a Keyboard Maestro palette in this case as a demonstration.
> 
> All it's doing is using a logical preset that searches for tracks with a code at the start and unhides them.



Yes, I do concur with the wish that Logic had something like this track name search/filtering, too. I use OSCulator's LPX plugin for bi-directional communication between Logic and Lemur, but there is not a facility in there for doing direct track selection by name, so I couldn't even synthesize something like this with Lemur, much less without it.


----------



## Ashermusic

If you are not a template person, you can save each software instrument you use as a patch in the Library and just add them to your project by creating empty software instruments. Complete with Scripts and Articulation Sets.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Garry said:


> No, I'm not using VEP - I had strongly considered before the update, but I no longer have a need for it.
> 
> My only other setup tips:
> - make extensive use of screen sets: I have 9 different screen sets, so that I can quickly jump to what I need to focus on (eg piano roll, mixer, instrument panel, etc)
> - if you're using logic user patches, make sure to give them unique names (not just unique path directory), otherwise, the correct patch will play, but it may show in the logic library directory as if it's playing the wrong one (it gets confused by patches of the same name in different directories)
> - use Logic Colourizer from Creationauts to tweak the UI: the full version is pricey considering what it is ($40 just for simply changing colors!), but the demo version will let you tweak just the main page, which I use to enhance the selected track, and make it standout (see screenshot)
> - use the browser window to quickly store chords and chord progressions (see right hand panel in screenshot): I created a project with a single chord on each track, based on a single major and its relative minor key: I have a number of extended chords for each scale degree for both C Major and A Minor, and can then use the transpose feature on a track to cover any key required (below you can see those I used for the 1st scale degree, and some of the 2nd. I can then very quickly create novel chord progressions, without needing that project to be open, but by just pulling in a track into my current project using the browser feature in Logic. I also similarly store chord progressions in the same way, which I imported from those available in Scaler and the Unison chord pack, and again store 1 per track. Need a ii-V-bIII-I? progression. No problem, just pull it in, and it's done! I have these for major/minor and diatonic and extended chords, so just 4 files to cover a good range of options for chord progressions. I have this window on a screenset, so I can quickly pull it up when needed, but it's otherwise out of the way.
> - when using the new disabled tracks feature in Logic, set the link in the instrument window to single (purple), not multi (yellow) as I initially did: with it set to multi, the instrument window does not open when switching to a previously unloaded track, but when set to single it does.
> - not strictly about setup, but the place I find the most useful, concise points on Logic are from Mikael Baggstrom here: his style is quirky, and won't be to everyone's taste, but I find his short videos really useful and learn something every time.
> 
> I'm certainly no Logic expert, but really like this setup now. Hopefully more experienced users can share additional tips they've been able to make better use of since the update?


Some fantastic ideas here, thanks for writing this out!


----------



## Garry

jonathanwright said:


> Thanks for the tips guys, and I don't want you to think I'm criticising Logic, I use is as much as I do Cubase. It's just that now it has such a robust disable/enable feature and increased track count, the next logical (ahem) step would be integrated track search.
> 
> Below is the functionality I'm trying to explain.
> 
> My Cubase template below has everything disabled and hidden. I press CMD-F and the search box pops up. It filters track names as I type.
> 
> I press enter and the track is unhidden, then I enable it.
> 
> Below is how my library templates work. I normally use a key command, but I'm using a Keyboard Maestro palette in this case as a demonstration.
> 
> All it's doing is using a logical preset that searches for tracks with a code at the start and unhides them.



Search is definitely very nice (and better implemented) in Cubase than Logic. Actually, your screen capture videos make it look really, very cool! If that was available in Logic, then yes, I'd definitely use it.

That said, it's not a feature I feel a real need for (as I did with disable tracks), since I can get to any track using the template I described, in seconds (if not quite as impressively as you can in Cubase!). Whether I type to search/enable it, or just use my groups/folders doesn't matter too much, but I can appreciate, if you've gotten used to that feature being available in Cubase, you may feel its absence more in Logic.


----------



## robh

Dewdman42 said:


> Just as one simple example of a Scripter 10.4.5 problem, try this simple test in Scripter:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> var firstNote = new NoteOn;
> firstNote.pitch = 24;
> firstNote.trace();
> var secondNote = new NoteOn;
> firstNote.trace();
> 
> 
> 
> The above code traces the firstNote object twice. It should be the same both times, but notice that values from the secondNote object are overwritten over the firstNote object for inexplicable reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Script evaluated successfully!
> [NoteOn channel:1 pitch:24 [C0] velocity:100]
> [NoteOn channel:1 pitch:100 [E6] velocity:100]


Yep. that's the type of data corruption I'm seeing as well.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Garry said:


> Search is definitely very nice (and better implemented) in Cubase than Logic. Actually, your screen capture videos make it look really, very cool! If that was available in Logic, then yes, I'd definitely use it.
> 
> That said, it's not a feature I feel a real need for (as I did with disable tracks), since I can get to any track using the template I described, in seconds (if not quite as impressively as you can in Cubase!). Whether I type to search/enable it, or just use my groups/folders doesn't matter too much, but I can appreciate, if you've gotten used to that feature being available in Cubase, you may feel its absence more in Logic.


That being said Logic's library and file browsing is far superior to Cubase's clunky, overly complicated and slow MediaBay...


----------



## dgburns

WindcryMusic said:


> Yes, I do concur with the wish that Logic had something like this track name search/filtering, too. I use OSCulator's LPX plugin for bi-directional communication between Logic and Lemur, but there is not a facility in there for doing direct track selection by name, so I couldn't even synthesize something like this with Lemur, much less without it.



I got success remotely selecting tracks in Logic with that Osculator plugin, because it's the only plugin that transmits OSC messages generated from within Logic (that I'm aware of). I was able to select tracks by name by having buttons on the Lemur send out an OSC message that specified the track name - even if you moved that track anywhere in the arrange page.

But it's a huge undertaking with a large template, and track names need to be unique and within the OSC spec.

And it gets ugly because you need to use the controller assignments, one per entry, which can't be stored outside of the pref file. Also, it takes forever to build, and I stopped after about 50 tracks, because it got slower the more tracks I added. Dead end for the moment, but it points to the fact that Logic can send out OSC messages that can be interpreted, such as track name and track number.

The other consideration became how to logically lay out all those buttons on the Lemur, and is it really a time saver? Group hides is better for now.

It is also possible to remotely select tracks within Cubase with Lemur (with midi message). But I haven't found a way of scrolling that track into view elegantly. It's also long and painful to setup. What I did as a stupid fix was command a 'track down' followed by a 'track up' command which puts the track you want either at the top or the bottom of the screen. That's three commands inside the logical preset, lol.

Track search is better imho


----------



## WindcryMusic

dgburns said:


> I got success remotely selecting tracks in Logic with that Osculator plugin, because it's the only plugin that transmits OSC messages generated from within Logic (that I'm aware of). I was able to select tracks by name by having buttons on the Lemur send out an OSC message that specified the track name - even if you moved that track anywhere in the arrange page.



Can I ask which OSCulator/OSC command you used? Are you talking about something provided by the OSCulator control surface plugin for Logic, I assume? From the documentation on that plugin, there is a /logic/track/name OSC command, but it is not bidirectional ... it only sends that message from Logic to the external OSC device, and cannot be sent in the other direction.


----------



## dgburns

WindcryMusic said:


> Can I ask which OSCulator/OSC command you used? Are you talking about something provided by the OSCulator control surface plugin for Logic, I assume? From the documentation on that plugin, there is a /logic/track/name OSC command, but it is not bidirectional ... it only sends that message from Logic to the external OSC device, and cannot be sent in the other direction.



It was a while back, I can go look when I have a sec.

Logic will respond to the incoming OSC message once you set up each track in the controller assignments window. It's not fun.

Again the problem is managing all those tracks on such a small iPad screen.

There's that guy who used to work at Motu that has something similar for around 500 bucks, doesn't it dynamically know your track layout? Can't recall his name, he's posted here on Vi-Control...


----------



## Heinigoldstein

Garry said:


> No, I'm not using VEP - I had strongly considered doing so before the update, but I no longer have a need for it.
> 
> My only other setup tips:
> - make extensive use of screen sets: I have 9 different screen sets, so that I can quickly jump to what I need to focus on (eg piano roll, mixer, instrument panel, etc)
> - if you're using logic user patches, make sure to give them unique names (not just unique path directory), otherwise, the correct patch will play, but it may show in the logic library directory as if it's playing the wrong one (it gets confused by patches of the same name in different directories)
> - use Logic Colourizer from Creationauts to tweak the UI: the full version is pricey considering what it is ($40 just for simply changing colors!), but the demo version will let you tweak just the main page, which I use to enhance the selected track, and make it standout (see screenshot)
> - use the browser window to quickly store chords and chord progressions (see right hand panel in screenshot): I created a project with a single chord on each track, based on a single major and its relative minor key: I have a number of extended chords for each scale degree for both C Major and A Minor, and can then use the transpose feature on a track to cover any key required (below you can see those I used for the 1st scale degree, and some of the 2nd. I can then very quickly create novel chord progressions, without needing that project to be open, but by just pulling in a track into my current project using the browser feature in Logic. I also similarly store chord progressions in the same way, which I imported from those available in Scaler and the Unison chord pack, and again store 1 per track. Need a ii-V-bIII-I? progression. No problem, just pull it in, and it's done! I have these for major/minor and diatonic and extended chords, so just 4 files to cover a good range of options for chord progressions. I have this window on a screenset, so I can quickly pull it up when needed, but it's otherwise out of the way.
> - when using the new disabled tracks feature in Logic, set the link in the instrument window to single (purple), not multi (yellow) as I initially did: with it set to multi, the instrument window does not open when switching to a previously unloaded track, but when set to single it does.
> - not strictly about setup, but the place I find the most useful, concise points on Logic are from Mikael Baggstrom here: his style is quirky, and won't be to everyone's taste, but I find his short videos really useful and learn something every time.
> 
> I'm certainly no Logic expert, but really like this setup now. Hopefully more experienced users can share additional tips they've been able to make better use of since the update?


I absolutely agree on the benfit of screen sets, but unfortunately, 10.4.5 still looses the stored sets when workinßg on two monitors after a few hours of work and puts everything on one screen. 
Some smaller issues with ARTzID and some strange behaviors that might be caused by new prefs after tje update. But the performance boost is great and that is the most important thing.


----------



## Garry

Heinigoldstein said:


> I absolutely agree on the benfit of screen sets, but unfortunately, 10.4.5 still looses the stored sets when workinßg on two monitors after a few hours of work and puts everything on one screen.



I don't know why you might be having that problem, because that isn't the case for me: my screen sets also go over 2 screens, and I've never had any issues, either with this update, or any other; no matter how long the screens are on. Perhaps you haven't locked your screenset? Perhaps it's an issue with your graphics card, or screen switching off after a certain period? It's not a Logic issue though.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Garry said:


> I don't know why you might be having that problem, because that isn't the case for me: my screen sets also go over 2 screens, and I've never had any issues, either with this update, or any other;



I haven't noticed any issues either. However, my 2-screen screensets have separate windows on each monitor, so maybe that's the difference?

There have been issues with multiple-monitor screensets in the past, but they fixed them a few versions back.


----------



## Heinigoldstein

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I haven't noticed any issues either. However, my 2-screen screensets have separate windows on each monitor, so maybe that's the difference?
> 
> There have been issues with multiple-monitor screensets in the past, but they fixed them a few versions back.


Lucky you, they did not for me. My sets are locked, have different windows and it happend on different host computers, so I'm pretty sure it's a Logic thing. 

But.....importing screen sets 2-3 times a day is not that painfull


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Heinigoldstein said:


> I'm pretty sure it's a Logic thing.



Are you using the same template? As I'm sure you know, Logic sessions can get corrupted.


----------



## Heinigoldstein

It appeared with my old template and with my new one. It also happens in smaller projects build from scratch. It depends on how often I switch between the sets. The ones I use most are the ones that disappear. My next hope is called Mojave, but I'm not too optimistic.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Heinigoldstein said:


> My next hope is called Mojave, but I'm not too optimistic.



What video card do you have in your 5,1 Mac Pro, and what monitor resolutions?


----------



## Heinigoldstein

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What video card do you have in your 5,1 Mac Pro, and what monitor resolutions?


I meanwhile have a 2015 iMac as Logic host, the Pro is now a slave. Not sure about the resolutions, Im not in the studio right now. I'll have a look tomorrow. Thanks for your input by the way !


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Heinigoldstein said:


> Not sure about the resolutions



It doesn't matter, actually. I checked on my machine, and it doesn't care whether the second monitor is set to 1080p (as it normally is, 5' away) or 4K.

Plus you have an iMac. It sounds like this is real.

And thinking about it, I don't stay on the screensets that use multiple monitors very long, so my experience probably isn't relevant.


----------



## pkm

Gaffable said:


> Just curious - which key command are you using? In Logic 10.4.5, the "Toggle Track On" command (Option-M) does not work properly. It only turns off tracks. It doesn't turn them on.


What's weird is that it will turn tracks on or off, but only one time per track. If you toggle a track on with the key command, the key command won't toggle it back off, nor will it toggle it back on if you manually toggle it off first. It will still work on any other track in your project, but only once each.


----------



## samphony

You have to hold option/alt and then click the on/off button in the track header to disable one or multiple selected tracks. There is no key command yet and tracks headers don’t get opaque like in other daws.


----------



## Hans-Peter

dgburns said:


> There's that guy who used to work at Motu that has something similar for around 500 bucks, doesn't it dynamically know your track layout? Can't recall his name, he's posted here on Vi-Control...



MR Miller - Patchboard. Using it myself - what a godsend!


----------



## Vik

pkm said:


> What's weird is that it will turn tracks on or off, but only one time per track. If you toggle a track on with the key command, the key command won't toggle it back off, nor will it toggle it back on if you manually toggle it off first. It will still work on any other track in your project, but only once each.


Maybe Apple wants to make it difficult to disable the track by accident. That could trigger hours of tech support work.  There's also a menu option for activating a track, but not for deactivating it. IMO there should at least be a menu option for disabling a track, but I'd prefer an optional dedicated button for enable/disable.


----------



## Garry

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/keyboard-maestro-for-workflow-boost.83205/


jonathanwright said:


> Thanks for the tips guys, and I don't want you to think I'm criticising Logic, I use is as much as I do Cubase. It's just that now it has such a robust disable/enable feature and increased track count, the next logical (ahem) step would be integrated track search.
> 
> Below is the functionality I'm trying to explain.
> 
> My Cubase template below has everything disabled and hidden. I press CMD-F and the search box pops up. It filters track names as I type.
> 
> I press enter and the track is unhidden, then I enable it.
> 
> Below is how my library templates work. I normally use a key command, but I'm using a Keyboard Maestro palette in this case as a demonstration.
> 
> All it's doing is using a logical preset that searches for tracks with a code at the start and unhides them.




Hey @jonathanwright - you mentioned using Keyboard Maestro in Cubase in your video - this looks really interesting. Do you also use this in Logic, and if so, what do you use it to do? I hadn't heard about this before, and watched a couple of YouTube videos to see if I could get a sense of it, but there's not a lot of info on it being used in Logic. I realize it's more of a general tool than just for DAWs, but is it worth the $40 if you just plan to use it for Logic, and if so, is it easy to use? 

EDIT: I opened another thread here to broaden this topic out on it's own, as it's less to do with the Logic update on this thread.


----------



## dgburns

Hans-Peter said:


> MR Miller - Patchboard. Using it myself - what a godsend!



Good Lord, still waiting for the DIY version !!

https://patchboard.app/


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

dgburns said:


> Good Lord, still waiting for the DIY version !!
> 
> https://patchboard.app/


I sent a message to support about bringing this to Windows (before seeing the price)


----------



## MarcelM

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I sent a message to support about bringing this to Windows (before seeing the price)


the price is a joke, sorry.


----------



## dgburns

MarcelM said:


> the price is a joke, sorry.



Well, actually -while it’s hard to swallow, given that I have a quasi-complicated half working roll your own version working, it took me about 4 years to make, and it’s still not done, and not being dynamic, will never be.

I think the DIY version at 500 bucks is interesting. If I had a 500k plus contract upcoming, I wouldn’t flinch at the pro version. It’s worth my time alone.


----------



## Dewdman42

It’s priced for pros. I think the author is missing the semipro market with that price


----------



## samphony

Vik said:


> IMO there should at least be a menu option for disabling a track, but I'd prefer an optional dedicated button for enable/disable.


I wouldn’t mind if we could get a key command (toggle) as well.


----------



## charlieclouser

samphony said:


> I wouldn’t mind if we could get a key command (toggle) as well.



I firmly agree that there should absolutely be a key command to toggle track on/off as well as a different key command to toggle track disable/enable. 

In Logic v10.2.4 I use a key command for track on/off as a de-facto track mute - I like the small additional savings of CPU that I get when a track is turned off as opposed to being muted, and I don't mind the small delay when a track is turned back on.

I do have a separate key command for track mute/unmute as well, but I rarely use it.

I really want an additional, separate key command for track disable/enable, and not just a half-assed re-purposing of the existing track on/off.


----------



## samphony

charlieclouser said:


> I really want an additional, separate key command for track disable/enable, and not just a half-assed re-purposing of the existing track on/off.


Its time to call C or M  they need your feedback Charlie!!!


----------



## charlieclouser

samphony said:


> Its time to call C or M  they need your feedback Charlie!!!



Well, I hung out with Gerhard at a friend's birthday dinner about two weeks before the WWDC, and I definitely bent his ear a fair bit - but mostly about the idea for surround busses "A-Z" instead of just "A". As you'd expect, he was absolutely silent about what we'd see at WWDC or in 10.4.5 - not so much as a nudge or a wink - so all that was as much of a surprise to me as to anyone since I'm not on the beta team or under NDA.

But he did reassure me that the Logic team is operating at maximum strength, undiminished and undimmed - and it seems like the only friction in their world comes from the unalterable, steady pace of their continued development rubbing up against scheduled events and announcements, like WWDC. 

So in hindsight I now interpret that to mean that maybe they had to do all that 1,000-track stuff and choke out a preview version of 10.4.5 for the Mac Pro demo at WWDC, with the full release soon after. Maybe the disable tracks thing was a separate feature build-out that got shortchanged when the order came down to have 1,000 tracks running on 56 threads ready for WWDC - so maybe we'll see a further "point" update soon that addresses the issues that other users have found, like the Scripter stuff, and hopefully it will include key commands and more fleshed-out disable/enable behavior.

But I will check and make sure that this request has actually been received....


----------



## charlieclouser

I've had this sort of thing a few times - what I always do is to unfreeze the tracks, play them for a few bars to make sure they sound correct, then re-freeze. This seems to reset Logic's brain. But I'm a few versions back - on v10.2.4.


----------



## jcrosby

Alex Fraser said:


> Can't say this is my experience at all, having run it from release and still today.


Same here HS runs just as smooth and stable as Sierra did. Won't touch Mojave until the last dot update, if not hold out... 10.13 has been very stable for me.


----------



## jcrosby

Guavadude said:


> The only one that really sucked was 10.4.3 and even they acknowledged it by releasing a quick update. Way too many moving parts in these rigs. I'm pretty leary of moving to Mojave but feel I better do it before the next major OS and then it disappears. I miss the old days of being able to download the combo updater and always get back to something that worked fairly quickly.


You should get in the habit of downloading each new OS, not installing it, and leaving it in your application folder. If you ride out your OS for more than an entire version then just archive the previous OS installer in you application folder on an external drive, then download but don't install the new OS...

And about bout being leary of Mojave... You don't have to jump right to Mojave actually. Check the Mac Rumors thread below...
The thread OP developed a utility that fetches versions of macOS Apple hides, directly from Apple's server...Anyone on a mac should be aware of this resource if they aren't already... 

The spoiler here is even if your machine is "supported" the utility still allows you to download the OS, making it also a tool for fetching retired/hidden versions of macOS... (Back to Sierra...)
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-high-sierra-10-13-unsupported-macs-thread.2048478/

Then just apply the latest security update directly from Apple:
https://support.apple.com/en_US/downloads/10.13


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

jcrosby said:


> You should get in the habit of downloading each new OS, not installing it, and leaving it in your application folder. If you ride out your OS for more than an entire version then just archive the previous OS installer in you application folder on an external drive, then download but don't install the new OS...
> 
> And about bout being leary of Mojave... You don't have to jump right to Mojave actually. Check the Mac Rumors thread below...
> The thread OP developed a utility that fetches versions of macOS Apple hides, directly from Apple's server...Anyone on a mac should be aware of this resource if they aren't already...
> 
> The spoiler here is even if your machine is "supported" the utility still allows you to download the OS, making it also a tool for fetching retired/hidden versions of macOS... (Back to Sierra...)
> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-high-sierra-10-13-unsupported-macs-thread.2048478/
> 
> Then just apply the latest security update directly from Apple:
> https://support.apple.com/en_US/downloads/10.13


It is important to note that there is a cut-off time on using those installers though.
I cannot remember what it is, but if the timestamp on the installer is too many years behind, it will not work anymore and you will need to download a fresh copy


----------



## petejonesmusic

ka00 said:


> I just ran into some CPU overloading on a big project, so I froze a number of tracks, then after doing some tempo changes, Logic re-calculates/re-freezes the frozen tracks, but for some reason, some of the frozen tracks are silent on playback. Has anyone had this issue?


Yes I've had this exact issue also.


----------



## Ashermusic

petejonesmusic said:


> Yes I've had this exact issue also.



I will try it out. In all honesty it’s probably been 7 or 8 years since I froze a Track.


----------



## Vik

10.4.5 seems to have a bug where something goes wrong (Logic forgets your Kontakt settings) if you unfreeze a track without havning saved your project after your last changes to that track. Maybe what you describe above is related to that bug?


----------



## whinecellar

Man, just diving into my first bigger project in 10.4.5 and it's taking really long for basic selection (selection tracks, rubber-banding regions), soloing/muting tracks & regions, etc. - it's really laggy - this is new behavior.

I've disabled the new "only load plugins needed" feature so everything is loaded & ready to go as on prior versions. This little sketching template has about 11 GB of loaded samples (on a 32 GB machine) across 21 tracks, there's nothing else going on so far - just 4 audio tracks - no real MIDI yet.

This same template ran fine on my prior MacBook Pro with just 16 GB RAM, and I'm now on a 2018 MB Pro with 32GB RAM, Vega 20 video (so graphics are really snappy otherwise) - no reason this shouldn't run like butter. I'm using fast video only (no auto graphics switching), Logic is the only app running, got plenty of available RAM, no VM swapping, etc.

Any clues? I'm already spoiled by the much faster GUI otherwise (especially when opening mixer on my 4k display) so I'd hate to go back to 10.4.4 - ugh...


----------



## Kent

whinecellar said:


> Man, just diving into my first bigger project in 10.4.5 and it's taking really long for basic selection (selection tracks, rubber-banding regions), soloing/muting tracks & regions, etc. - it's really laggy - this is new behavior.
> 
> I've disabled the new "only load plugins needed" feature so everything is loaded & ready to go as on prior versions. This little sketching template has about 11 GB of loaded samples (on a 32 GB machine) across 21 tracks, there's nothing else going on so far - just 4 audio tracks - no real MIDI yet.
> 
> This same template ran fine on my prior MacBook Pro with just 16 GB RAM, and I'm now on a 2018 MB Pro with 32GB RAM, Vega 20 video (so graphics are really snappy otherwise) - no reason this shouldn't run like butter. I'm using fast video only (no auto graphics switching), Logic is the only app running, got plenty of available RAM, no VM swapping, etc.
> 
> Any clues? I'm already spoiled by the much faster GUI otherwise (especially when opening mixer on my 4k display) so I'd hate to go back to 10.4.4 - ugh...


Out of curiosity, have you tried deleting your control surface preference file? That behavior sounds like the typical symptoms of a corrupt .cs.


----------



## whinecellar

kmaster said:


> Out of curiosity, have you tried deleting your control surface preference file? That behavior sounds like the typical symptoms of a corrupt .cs.



No, but good call - I hadn't tried that yet. I have definitely seen that happen in my decades of (ill)Logical behavior.

I hope I'm wrong, but this may just have to do with amount of stuff loaded, because I haven't seen it on simpler projects up to now. I should be fine since I'm only using 11/32 GB RAM and nothing else is running, but I don't know what else would be causing this all of a sudden...


----------



## Vik

whinecellar said:


> Any clues?


Are you having multiple Kontakt instances on one track? Do you know how your Mac's single core performance is?


----------



## whinecellar

Vik said:


> Are you having multiple Kontakt instances on one track? Do you know how your Mac's single core performance is?



No, just a single instance per track. My Mac is an 8-core 2.6 GHz (4+ turbo whatever), but it's WAY more than enough for what I'm doing - the CPU meter is barely even registering both in Logic and Activity Monitor.


----------



## Vik

whinecellar said:


> No, just a single instance per track. My Mac is an 8-core 2.6 GHz (4+ turbo whatever), but it's WAY more than enough for what I'm doing - the CPU meter is barely even registering both in Logic and Activity Monitor.


That's good, but sometimes the CPU and disk meters look totally fine, while Logic still struggles with too much strain - eg if you have very memory or CPU intensive stuff happening within one single instance of Kontakt. I just found a new tool which can monitor some of that, which I wrote about here.
My Mac can also show little CPU and disc activity but still be in deep trouble, even with 12 cores and (usually) 32 gb. Not saying that we are having the same kind of problems, though.


----------



## rhye

whinecellar said:


> Man, just diving into my first bigger project in 10.4.5 and it's taking really long for basic selection (selection tracks, rubber-banding regions), soloing/muting tracks & regions, etc. - it's really laggy - this is new behavior.
> 
> I've disabled the new "only load plugins needed" feature so everything is loaded & ready to go as on prior versions. This little sketching template has about 11 GB of loaded samples (on a 32 GB machine) across 21 tracks, there's nothing else going on so far - just 4 audio tracks - no real MIDI yet.
> 
> This same template ran fine on my prior MacBook Pro with just 16 GB RAM, and I'm now on a 2018 MB Pro with 32GB RAM, Vega 20 video (so graphics are really snappy otherwise) - no reason this shouldn't run like butter. I'm using fast video only (no auto graphics switching), Logic is the only app running, got plenty of available RAM, no VM swapping, etc.
> 
> Any clues? I'm already spoiled by the much faster GUI otherwise (especially when opening mixer on my 4k display) so I'd hate to go back to 10.4.4 - ugh...


Delete you logic preferences and reinstall Logic. I was having all sorts of issues with this update until I did that. 
Another thing that helps if you use a template, is to create a brand new file and import everything from the old template creating a new template file. 
I have found out that I have to do this every few months if am constantly updating my template.


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## whinecellar

Vik said:


> That's good, but sometimes the CPU and disk meters look totally fine, while Logic still struggles with too much strain - eg if you have very memory or CPU intensive stuff happening within one single instance of Kontakt. I just found a new tool which can monitor some of that, which I wrote about here.
> My Mac can also show little CPU and disc activity but still be in deep trouble, even with 12 cores and (usually) 32 gb. Not saying that we are having the same kind of problems, though.



Thanks for that app tip. Yeah, I am painfully aware that that can happen, but this was happening on an empty song after just putting down two bars of a simple staccato part with Albion. Not taxing at all. And the same empty template was totally fine in 10.4.4 on my previous slower MBP with just 16 GB RAM. Still, I know Logic has its issues with occasionally corrupt pref files, sessions, etc., so it warrants further digging for sure. Just wondered if anyone else saw anything like this since 10.4.5. I would be glad if it were just me, because then that would mean a corruption issue, which is easily fixed!


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## Nick Batzdorf

whinecellar said:


> this was happening on an empty song after just putting down two bars of a simple staccato part with Albion



That's definitely a glitch (or perhaps a very specific bug) rather than that the new version of Logic is slow.


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## dgburns

@rhye @whinecellar 

Yesterday was the first full on day with 10.4.5, I may need to trash prefs etc but here’s what I found-

Gui mod people are reporting that there’s a new way in which the mixer graphics are dealt with, and possibly this version is a ‘quick get it out there so we can show people Logic has 1000 tracks of audio running at the show’. In the innards, there seems to be evidence that some quick shortcuts were taken that will possibly be corrected in a newer release, for example, cpu drawn graphics hard coded rather then the usual plist file pointing to graphic files. This is maybe related only specifically to graphics and the mixer, but I for one, am not entirely sure. Take this preceeding with a healthy grain of salt.

What I did find is that this version fell down faster then 10.4.4 runnning a simple template with basic stuff in it, stuff that hit the cpu hard however. Freezing tracks for the first time in a long time as a result and this clears up the errors (like object nested too deep errors, even though I don’t have folder within folders, so who knows why?). Also, there was some strange graphic things, like plugins still showing after being removed from the mixer - when two tracks of the identical strip were showing,in the mixer. Also, I was getting hard crashes again, Logic simply disappears. This went away last version and don’t think its my system, but who knows. Relaunch, restart and everything is back, so it’s just one of those things that let you have a coffee or pee break.

But, it’s really fun to load a project and it comes up really quick. I am overall liking the direction once a few kinks are ironed out, this is gonna be a great time to be looking at new macs again with a more mature version of this app.


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## whinecellar

@dgburns yeah, I have a strong suspicion you're right about all of that. It's definitely a mixed bag for me so far - a lot of things finally feel nice and fluid especially running at 4k - but a lot of other GUI issues are popping up at random. As is usually the cycle with Logic, some steps forward and some back with a new version, but they tend to get ironed out. Gonna do some more experimenting between 10.4.4 and 10.4.5...


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## whinecellar

And another weird one: muting/un-muting tracks doesn't gray out (or vice-versa) the track's regions until you select another track. Anyone else? This is on a fresh song with just 2 audio tracks in it, fresh prefs...


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## WindcryMusic

whinecellar said:


> And another weird one: muting/un-muting tracks doesn't gray out (or vice-versa) the track's regions until you select another track. Anyone else? This is on a fresh song with just 2 audio tracks in it, fresh prefs...



For what it is worth, I just tried this twice, once in an existing project, and then on a fresh project in which I created 2 audio tracks to duplicate your scenario. In both cases the track regions respond immediately to muting or unmuting, using either the mute button on the tracks themselves, or the mute buttons on the channel strips. So I can't reproduce your observed issue, sorry.


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## Alex Fraser

Anyone bump into this bug? Tell me I'm not going mad...

Start a new project.
Add an EXS24 track.
Create a new sampler instrument (make a zone, import some audio) but *don't* save the sampler instrument just yet.
Save the Logic project, but don't check the "include EXS24 files" option.
Normally at this point, Logic would ask if you want to save the EXS24 instrument. Now, this doesn't appear to happen. Instead, when you go to play your track, the instrument is somehow "lost" and throws up "not found errors."

It's not a show stopper - you can get around it by saving your sampler instrument with each edit. But forget to do it once...

I can also replicate this behaviour mid project when editing an existing EXS24 instrument and neglecting to save the changes before saving the main project.

Is it just me? Any help appreciated.
A


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## Vik

You should report it to Apple asap. There’s a bug in 10.4.5 which somehow reminds about what you describe: if you freeze a Kontakt track and unfreeze it again without having saved it first, it loses its settings. Maybe they are related.


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## jonathanwright

Maybe I’m being dumb, but is there a way to make the mixer ‘hide all empty tracks’ when the key command is applied to the arrange window?

It’s great to be able to hide unused tracks, but the mixer is still fully populated.


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## Vik

Check you setting in the mixer view menu


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## jonathanwright

Thanks, I tried that, but it doesn’t work for me.

The tracks are all hidden, but still show in the mixer.

Just to clarify, I’m using the ‘Hide Empty Tracks’ key command.


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## JEPA

should I update to 10.4.5 now? or are there too many bugs? I am on MacPro 5.1 and with critical projects.... thanks in advance!


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## Guavadude

JEPA said:


> should I update to 10.4.5 now? or are there too many bugs? I am on MacPro 5.1 and with critical projects.... thanks in advance!



Logic 10.4.6 just dropped that fixed a bunch of broken stuff. Compress and save a copy of whatever version of Logic you're on now. If the new one causes issues, it's easy to go back to the older version. YMMV

But if you have to upgrade your OS to use 10.4.6, then I would definitely hold off.


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## Shad0wLandsUK

I did not know this.. I just woke up to some nice news


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## JEPA

Guavadude said:


> Compress and save


how to?


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## Guavadude

JEPA said:


> how to?



In Applications folder, select the Logic App and control-click. Compress creates a zip file. Rename it to what version Logic is you're backing up.


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## JEPA

Guavadude said:


> In Applications folder, select the Logic App and control-click. Compress creates a zip file. Rename it to what version Logic is you're backing up.


thanks


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## Alex Fraser

(bump)
Now the update has been in the wild a little while, how are folks getting on with monolithic track count templates with disabled tracks? Would be interesting to hear anyone's findings. Thanks!


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## WindcryMusic

Alex Fraser said:


> (bump)
> Now the update has been in the wild a little while, how are folks getting on with monolithic track count templates with disabled tracks? Would be interesting to hear anyone's findings. Thanks!



I haven't actually done any significant composing yet with 10.4.5 or 10.4.6 ... I am currently working on refitting my template to use LPX's built-in articulations rather than ArtZID, and that's a lengthy process on ~200 tracks with many of those tracks having 25 to 40 articulations (yes, I'm a bit insane). But I've loaded and saved the entire template numerous times with these new versions, as well as recording little bits of stuff for testing the template behavior, and it is about 1000x more pleasant to work with now, and my iMac Pro is finally feeling like the speed demon I had expected it to be. The only negative thing is the pause of a second or two and the attendant popup dialogs when first clicking on a disabled track, when it reloads everything on that track and any sends, but that's a minor and completely understandable inconvenience to bear in exchange for not waiting upwards of 10 minutes for the template to load, not to mention previously being wholly unable to work with a single monolithic template of all of the libraries that I am inclined to use regularly.

So I'd say that, thus far, 10.4.5 has been a game-changer for me.

P.S. - I don't use VEPro, so I can't express any observations related to that with LPX.


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## marclawsonmusic

For those of you who use VEPro and Logic... Are you finding that VEPro is no longer necessary? Or are you designing your template with connected but disabled VEPro instances?


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## Alex Fraser

WindcryMusic said:


> I haven't actually done any significant composing yet with 10.4.5 or 10.4.6 ... I am currently working on refitting my template to use LPX's built-in articulations rather than ArtZID, and that's a lengthy process on ~200 tracks with many of those tracks having 25 to 40 articulations (yes, I'm a bit insane). But I've loaded and saved the entire template numerous times with these new versions, as well as recording little bits of stuff for testing the template behavior, and it is about 1000x more pleasant to work with now, and my iMac Pro is finally feeling like the speed demon I had expected it to be. The only negative thing is the pause of a second or two and the attendant popup dialogs when first clicking on a disabled track, when it reloads everything on that track and any sends, but that's a minor and completely understandable inconvenience to bear in exchange for not waiting upwards of 10 minutes for the template to load, not to mention previously being wholly unable to work with a single monolithic template of all of the libraries that I am inclined to use regularly.
> 
> So I'd say that, thus far, 10.4.5 has been a game-changer for me.
> 
> P.S. - I don't use VEPro, so I can't express any observations related to that with LPX.


Thanks for the update! Are you purging your Kontakt samples as part of the process?


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## samphony

I too find Logic 10.4.5+ Is a game changer. Its snappier on high track counts and if you compare it to 10.0 from 2013 a lot has changed for the better.


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## WindcryMusic

Alex Fraser said:


> Thanks for the update! Are you purging your Kontakt samples as part of the process?



Actually I’m not sure yet. They used to be purged, but I don’t think it matters in terms of the auto-disabled tracks, so I think there’s no difference in terms of load time or size either way. I haven’t yet checked Kontakt purged tracks when they are enabled by Logic to see if they are still loaded as purged. To be honest, I’m not even all that concerned about it anymore in my case, since I have 128GB of RAM to spend on sample loading, and 10.4.5 freed up a staggering amount of my RAM (my fully purged template used to still eat up 70GB of RAM upon loading, whereas now the same template occupies less than 10% of that).

EDIT: I just checked, and yes, when an empty track with Kontakt has been saved in a purged state and then later on Logic auto-enables it upon selection, the Kontakt instrument does reload in the purged state. So that's very nice.


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## jonathanwright

Alex Fraser said:


> (bump)
> Now the update has been in the wild a little while, how are folks getting on with monolithic track count templates with disabled tracks? Would be interesting to hear anyone's findings. Thanks!



Performance wise, it’s fantastic. It runs really smoothly on my system and I haven’t come across any bugs.

My main request now would be for a more robust implementation of track search and visibility.


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## Shad0wLandsUK

jonathanwright said:


> Performance wise, it’s fantastic. It runs really smoothly on my system and I haven’t come across any bugs.
> 
> My main request now would be for a more robust implementation of track search and visibility.


Same... same

I was always astounded when I first stopped and looked, I realised that it confused me how the OS with such a powerful search system did not include it in its Professional DAW software


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## samphony

jonathanwright said:


> Performance wise, it’s fantastic. It runs really smoothly on my system and I haven’t come across any bugs.
> 
> My main request now would be for a more robust implementation of track search and visibility.



Exactly. This is crucial as it would be a great and therefore my preferred alternative to scrolling.


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## whinecellar

I’m on 10.4.6 and performance is noticeably better than ever - especially GUI at 4k resolution. I’m starting to think nothing will ever beat Logic 9 in that department – but we are finally getting much closer. Windows and panes open & resize far faster and feel much more fluid, and overall the entire app just feels much much better. I’m finally at a point with Logic after 25 years where I only have a small handful of requests, and they are all nitpicky... like opening new windows/plugins in the center of the screen vs. the top left corner. Logic is better than ever!


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## Mishabou

whinecellar said:


> I’m on 10.4.6 and performance is noticeably better than ever - especially GUI at 4k resolution. I’m starting to think nothing will ever beat Logic 9 in that department – but we are finally getting much closer. Windows and panes open & resize far faster and feel much more fluid, and overall the entire app just feels much much better. I’m finally at a point with Logic after 25 years where I only have a small handful of requests, and they are all nitpicky... like opening new windows/plugins in the center of the screen vs. the top left corner. Logic is better than ever!



Couple of OT questions for from a newbie...

Do you use the hide (H) feature to hide unused tracks from your template ? If so, how do you unhide ONLY the tracks you want to see, if i understand correctly hitting H will toggle hide/unhide of all the tracks.

Does LPX offer Track Presets like CB 10 or PT Ultimate ?

Thx


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## WindcryMusic

Mishabou said:


> Couple of OT questions for from a newbie...
> 
> Do you use the hide (H) feature to hide unused tracks from your template ? If so, how do you unhide ONLY the tracks you want to see, if i understand correctly hitting H will toggle hide/unhide of all the tracks.
> 
> Does LPX offer Track Presets like CB 10 or PT Ultimate ?
> 
> Thx



Maybe someone else has a more direct answer, but if you want to hide groups of tracks rather than individual ones, Logic Pro X has a set of “Hide Group N” commands that can be used to toggle the hide status of a grouped set of tracks. I use this with custom assigned key commands, and in conjunction with a Lemur script in order to reveal any selected group of tracks and hide all others with a single button press.

But I think that is about as close as Logic can get to undoing the hidden status of an individual track. (If I’m wrong, someone will hopefully correct me.)


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## Vik

Here’s how you unhide tracks in Logic:
Press the H icon (or click in the H).

This will temporarily unhide all tracks and show the individual H button on each track. Use this to change the hide status for the tracks you want to unhide.

When you click on the main H icon again, the tracks will now be shown according to the changes you made.

(Let’s hope we get a similar solution which we can use to to hide the subforums we don’t need to see on this forum!  )


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## Alex Fraser

Would you believe that I brought my first SDD only this week? (Despite making music "full time" for over a decade...)

Anyway, I finally did a quick template test using disabled tracks. The loading performance is staggering. On my ancient 2011 iMac, via SSD, even the most complex libraries are ready to play in a couple of seconds from hitting the "on" icon. 

Disabled tracks is clearly the way to go.


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## Peaky Blinder

What O.S. is everyone using with the newest Logic. Wold you upgrade from Sierra ?


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## Alex Fraser

Peaky Blinder said:


> What O.S. is everyone using with the newest Logic. Wold you upgrade from Sierra ?


Running High Sierra, which is the last OS my 2011 iMac will run. Logic latest working fine here.


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## Land of Missing Parts

Peaky Blinder said:


> What O.S. is everyone using with the newest Logic. Wold you upgrade from Sierra ?


Switched to Mojave last week. So far so good.


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## whinecellar

Peaky Blinder said:


> What O.S. is everyone using with the newest Logic. Wold you upgrade from Sierra ?


Mojave 10.14.5. Running like butter, but the transition to Mojave was a bit of a pain...


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## Peaky Blinder

whinecellar said:


> Mojave 10.14.5. Running like butter, but the transition to Mojave was a bit of a pain...



Hi Jim, Is that normal or just your machine ?


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## Mishabou

marclawsonmusic said:


> For those of you who use VEPro and Logic... Are you finding that VEPro is no longer necessary? Or are you designing your template with connected but disabled VEPro instances?



Love to know this as well...anyone ?


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## whinecellar

Peaky Blinder said:


> Hi Jim, Is that normal or just your machine ?



I imagine it was a little rough for anybody because of the slow transition away from anything 32 bit, but in my case it was compounded by a brand new machine with a T2 chip.


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## Peaky Blinder

Anyone think it is better to go Sierra to High Sierra, to Mojave ?

Mac Pro Trashcan


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## Nick Batzdorf

Is there another season of Peaky Blinders? 

Anyway, the 5,1 Mac Pro needs to go to High Sierra before Mojave because of firmware updates. My guess is that the black Mac Pro will tell you if it needs to do the same.


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## Peaky Blinder

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Is there another season of Peaky Blinders?
> 
> Anyway, the 5,1 Mac Pro needs to go to High Sierra before Mojave because of firmware updates. My guess is that the black Mac Pro will tell you if it needs to do the same.



Thank you sir. Will give it a go, fingers crossed.

Yes, PB S05 is finishing up. The series is expected to run until S07.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Can't wait!

Are you involved with it? It's among the best use of music I've seen/heard.


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## samphony

I 


Peaky Blinder said:


> Anyone think it is better to go Sierra to High Sierra, to Mojave ?
> 
> Mac Pro Trashcan


went from sierra to Mojave. No issues!


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## NYC Composer

Peaky Blinder said:


> Thank you sir. Will give it a go, fingers crossed.
> 
> Yes, PB S05 is finishing up. The series is expected to run until S07.


awesome!!!


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## Peaky Blinder

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Can't wait!
> 
> Are you involved with it? It's among the best use of music I've seen/heard.



The brains behind the music is music supervisor Amelia Hartley (Endemol Productions).
I like razors in hats.


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## NYC Composer

I love PB and the music from PB. Also the music from Shameless.


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