# Mixing Ambient Music



## Dan Mott (Mar 16, 2011)

also - Maybe some of you could suggest some great Ambient music albums I could buy and some artists too. I suppose youtube isn't the best place to reference - yeah?


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## Aaron Marshall (Mar 16, 2011)

Ambient music, to me, is like musical photography, whereas orchestral music is like painting. I think any good ambient music blurs the lines of its genre.

Capture something. Focus in on the beauty of its sound. It could be a guitar, an oil drum, a shower curtain, an alarm clock, but once you capture it; make it your own. If you think you're going to start creating ambient music with a bunch of synths, you're missing the point. I'm not accusing you of this, but I know a lot of wannabe ambient dabblers who think they can fire up a synth and be on there way to Enoville with a couple of tweaks.

Where orchestral composers focus on notes, movement, timbre etc. Ambient artists (good ones) start off with the obsessive desire to the audio or sound itself. In my opinion, or at least my approach I think ambient music is very similarly approached to orchestral music in how a mix is constructed. 

I think an orchestral approach is like classical Shakespearean stage acting whereas someone who builds things distinctly with audio in mind is more like a Stanislavskian method actor. Both are incredible talents but take an incredibly different type of skill to achieve great results (with some overlap of course).

What questions do you have specifically?

You don't necessarily have to drown everything in reverb for it to be ambient. That's a common annoying misconception. Sure, it's a tool we all use. If you use it, you'll need it to be killer. I like to use a mixture of hardware and software.

Lexicon hardware is very lush and spacey. TC Electronics is more transparent. Eventide reverb is crazy and like neither. I blend all sorts of sounds together and find out what works per sound, per project of course. A lot of the times I won't use any at all. 

I guess just start with the basic principles of how you would begin any other mix. Is your monitoring up to par? How are you going to express the truth?


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## Aaron Marshall (Mar 16, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Wed Mar 16 said:


> also - Maybe some of you could suggest some great Ambient music albums I could buy and some artists too. I suppose youtube isn't the best place to reference - yeah?



Listen to:

Biosphere
Lustmord
Steve Roach
Klaus Weise
Fires of Ork 2
Michael Stearns
last but certainly *least*, my stuff :lol:


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## TheUnfinished (Mar 16, 2011)

+1 to the recommendation of Biosphere. I'd also add Deaf Center and Loscil.

It's a good point about not washing everything in reverb. Sometimes it's useful to use a delay (or even a gate) instead of a reverb to create the space and movement without having a wash that pushes everything into the background.


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## Dan Mott (Mar 16, 2011)

Aaron Marshall @ Wed Mar 16 said:


> Ambient music, to me, is like musical photography, whereas orchestral music is like painting. I think any good ambient music blurs the lines of its genre.
> 
> Capture something. Focus in on the beauty of its sound. It could be a guitar, an oil drum, a shower curtain, an alarm clock, but once you capture it; make it your own. If you think you're going to start creating ambient music with a bunch of synths, you're missing the point. I'm not accusing you of this, but I know a lot of wannabe ambient dabblers who think they can fire up a synth and be on there way to Enoville with a couple of tweaks.
> 
> ...



Hello.

Thanks for the help.

I never had it in mind that just using a couple of synths for ambient music will get me well on my way, it's not how I think of it at all. I think of Ambient music is something that can drift you away into another world of distants and emotion. It can also tell a story aswell and could be what anyone thinks it is.

My approach isn't going to be strictly stuck with the genre, but mix wise is going to be quite similar, just Ambient and distant. Which is why I asked about the mixing advice.

My monitoring is fine I think. I have some acoustic treatment up now and such if that's what you mean. I just want to express space and distants and I figured that ambient music would be my best reference.

Thanks.


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## Dan Mott (Mar 16, 2011)

Aaron Marshall @ Wed Mar 16 said:


> Dan-Jay @ Wed Mar 16 said:
> 
> 
> > also - Maybe some of you could suggest some great Ambient music albums I could buy and some artists too. I suppose youtube isn't the best place to reference - yeah?
> ...



Thanks. Are all these on Itunes and such?

How can I listen to your stuff?

Cheers.


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## Dan Mott (Mar 16, 2011)

TheUnfinished @ Wed Mar 16 said:


> +1 to the recommendation of Biosphere. I'd also add Deaf Center and Loscil.
> 
> It's a good point about not washing everything in reverb. Sometimes it's useful to use a delay (or even a gate) instead of a reverb to create the space and movement without having a wash that pushes everything into the background.



Cheers I'll keep that in mind.


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## Dan Mott (Mar 16, 2011)

I mean another thing.

Obviously Ambient music is something that sounds like it's in a big space and such? 

I just struggle with the front to back perspective. I mean, even the front instruments kinda need some verb so It sounds like it's in the same space, but if the front instrument have the ambient reverb type stuff going, it makes it sound like it's kind of at the back, but the only thing is that the front instrument is louder.... and I don't even know what I'm saying hah, it's just a little confusing. You want it sound ambient, but not too muddy with verb. 

Sigh... I'm confusing my self and it's probably way more simple than I'm putting it. Anyway I suppose listening is the key!


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## TheUnfinished (Mar 16, 2011)

As well as listening to the suggestions, I'd hunt out some interviews with the artists. They may well drop some reverb and mixing tips!


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## poseur (Mar 16, 2011)

imo:
musical genres only become "genres", these days,
either when they begin to ossify,
are ready to be classicised,
or simply have become a series of puzzle-piece-tropes.

yes, i have a dim view of this.....
i don't believe that my definition of ambient music is necessarily anyone else's.

nor do i believe that your mixes should sound like mine;
if it's ambient music,
isn't the sound already defined by the music?
isn't it either pre-mixed, or the mix is defined simultanously w/the music?
i kinda hate to say this, here, but will:
wtf is "ambient" music, anyways?

make your own way.
use & manage reverbs in any way in which you hear to be fitting.

i agree with aaron's suggestion to listen to the artists mentioned in his post,
but would suggest listening to much more music,
and across a wider spectrum of the (errmmm.....) "definition" of "ambient music":
jon hassell (early, eg records & ecm records)
terry riley (early: poppy no-good & the phantom band)
brian eno (early: eg records)
robert rich
lustmord
giya kancheli
david sylvian (middle '80's to early '90's)
etc etc etc
etc etc etc
etc etc etc

if you wanna make your music, and want to call it "ambient",
you can (& maybe should, imo) define for yourself what that means to you.....
.....and, play with it:
work with it:
play some more:
do it.
define it, by doing it.
like working on a sculpture that will not dry.

¿no?
and, if not, why not?

i dunno:
maybe you have a paying "job" to create some so-called "ambient music", at the moment?

dt


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## Dan Mott (Mar 16, 2011)

poseur @ Wed Mar 16 said:


> imo:
> musical genres only become "genres", these days,
> either when they begin to ossify,
> are ready to be classicised,
> ...



Great advice and I agree with what you are saying which is true.

I am creating my own songs and such, but I want the mix to be ambient and such, so I was looking for some insights and some advice on the mix part of things. The closest type mix I could find to reference was ambient type style. The style that has alot of reverb, delay and strero effects and such.

I do struggle with reverb and getting instruments to fit when dealing with the front to back perspective. I mean, it all gets confusing when all those layers are being used. Not all sounds are going to work with eachother, which is where EQ and panning, not to mention volume you play a part, but I have trouble with the frequency type stuff because panning and volume are pretty straight forward. Knowing if you should boost the main instrument so its bright and clear, or leave the front insrument and cut the other background sounds. 

It's all experimenting, but having guidelines keeps my stress levels to a minium because I have some general rules to take into consideration.

Doing a pop mix is pretty straight forward for me, but when dealing with verb and layers of sounds is where it gets complicated and stressed out for me. I just want to master this and what I do aswell so. Rules and referencing are good I suppose, ey?


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## Dan Mott (Mar 16, 2011)

Basically, it's pretty straight forward I know. I do get uptight with things I want to master. Using your ears and trusting them is hard sometimes


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## poseur (Mar 16, 2011)

dan, regarding these things, imo:
the best teacher, maybe,
can be the track, the width & the reality of your own experiences.

maybe expand your experiences?
you could:
a) play w/stuff more: it's likely that nothing will get f••ked-up.

b) go into a studio w/someone who is doing that type of music:
get together with someone!
see what they're doing, absorb & learn.
________________________________

personally, i tend to employ layers of spaces, rather than single-spaces:
i often use pretty dark, very animated, very long reverbs:
but, they can be very low in the balance: they can be _just_ audible, frankly.

i learned about this from first listening-to,
then working with jan erik kaunshaug & manfred eicher;
i listened, i watched, i developed another way with it for myself.

if more than one of these reverbs is being applied, they're often panned away from each other,
so long as phase isn't being unpleasantly (to me) canceled.

but, in point of fact:
i usually record these things as part & parcel of the original arrangement of the music,
and have been doing that, specifically & continuously, since the '70's.

dt


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## Dan Mott (Mar 16, 2011)

poseur @ Thu Mar 17 said:


> dan, imo regarding these things:
> the best teacher is your own experience.
> 
> maybe expand that?
> ...



Cool thanks.

Experimenting is the key I suppose.

Now to find somebody is Aus who does this kind of thing.


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## DKeenum (Mar 16, 2011)

Dan, I'd like to make a couple of suggestions, but I don't think the music I'm recommending is necessarily Ambiet if you use the "found sound" definition.

1. Brian Eno's Ascent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOgQyIMX_XU

2. Hearts of Space: http://www.hos.com/

3. Slow Music for Fast Times: http://www.amazon.com/Slow-Music-Times-Various-Artists/dp/B00005A8A8 (http://www.amazon.com/Slow-Music-Times- ... B00005A8A8)

4. Free Mp3's: http://www.biosphere.no/mp3.html

My opinion: It seems to me that there is a variety of approaches within Ambient. It runs from soft and meditative to Space Music to noise based music. It ranges from hopeful to hopeless, from tonal to atonal.

I guess that's being too general, but it seems there is a wide variety within the style.


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## Aaron Marshall (Mar 16, 2011)

Ahh yes Loscil, that's a great suggestion. I just recently discovered this artist. It's very moving stuff.

Chicane is typically a dance sound, but there's this one track called "Early" that is one of the most beautiful ambient tracks I've heard. It's very much akin to Vangelis' Blade Runner. Ambient music is broad.

Aphex Twin, and Boards of Canada have some excellent material too.

Dan, you can find my tunes in my signature http://noct.us via discography. I also have a player up top if you want to play a lot of my songs.


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## TheUnfinished (Mar 16, 2011)

Aaron Marshall @ Wed Mar 16 said:


> Chicane is typically a dance sound, but there's this one track called "Early" that is one of the most beautiful ambient tracks I've heard. It's very much akin to Vangelis' Blade Runner. Ambient music is broad.



Oh yes, definitely, Chicane should have made an entire album of this. There was a lot of great melodic chillout trance around at that time by the likes of Solarstone, Michael Woods, A Man Called Adam and others.

Time to break out some dusty CDs!


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## poseur (Mar 16, 2011)

TheUnfinished @ Wed Mar 16 said:


> Aaron Marshall @ Wed Mar 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Chicane is typically a dance sound, but there's this one track called "Early" that is one of the most beautiful ambient tracks I've heard. It's very much akin to Vangelis' Blade Runner. Ambient music is broad.
> ...



.....can't forget "*we*".....

dt


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## Dan Mott (Mar 17, 2011)

Well now from all your suggestions, I see that there are alot of styles when it comes to Ambient music. 

Aaron, your tracks are pretty nice by the way. Very relaxing.


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## lux (Mar 17, 2011)

To me saying ambient music isnt defining any style but just something which has been created when people had difficulties placing some artists albums phisically in catalogues and stores.

"what the f**ck is that? aahh, ambient music...i see"

But could be wrong.


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## Dan Mott (Mar 17, 2011)

Well from listening to the suggested artists and also some ambient music in the past, I think you could put it under a genre because it all kind of sounds similar.

You've got like a couple of pads going through the track and some trip hoppy beats. You've got the distant long tailed reverberated piano, or synths for a melody of the top. I dunno I do think it can be put under a genre quite easily. I mean it sounds ambient, like it's in a massive space so..... I dunno.


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## robh (Mar 17, 2011)

You could check out my album which touches the Ambient style - some tracks more than others.

Just click on the link in my signature.

When it came time to mix my album, I referenced a couple albums: Freedom - Michael W.Smith, and Open Sky - Iona. They may seem drastically different from each other and different from my album but it definitely helped me get everything balanced.

Rob


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## DKeenum (Mar 17, 2011)

robh @ Thu Mar 17 said:


> Just click on the link in my signature. Rob


I listened and downloaded "Behind the Veil." Thanks! Enjoyed.


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## Dan Mott (Mar 19, 2011)

robh @ Fri Mar 18 said:


> You could check out my album which touches the Ambient style - some tracks more than others.
> 
> Just click on the link in my signature.
> 
> ...



Now this is actually a little different. I like this. I have alot of good references now. Oh, and I swear you posted the first song on this forum before eh? It's cool.


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