# Best Solo Cello?



## Daniel James (May 10, 2019)

Best solo cello out there, other than Tina Guo by Cinesamples???

-DJ


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## chapbot (May 10, 2019)

Chris Hein, Virharmonic


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## stfciu (May 10, 2019)

Depending what you're looking for.

When I was looking for one, first thing for me was the tone.

I use Emotional Cello and it is a lovely instrument. Very comprehensive and you receive a lot of things than regular articulations. I hear some small quirks in the legato transition volume/intonation when you engage the RR and there are some few faulty samples on below medium dynamics where what I can describe "strange knocking" is present (somewhere around lower part F and G) but it is nothing that I can get through. Still think this is one of the best.

Still have my eyes on Chris Hein. Also great tone and a lot of articulations as well. What is more, you receive four instruments at once with different timbre and style.

Then, on my radar at least, there are:
Cinematic Solo Strings
Audio Modeling Cello (imagination is your limit here but you have to work on this more than others)
Spitfire Solo Strings
Embertone Blakus Cello
Virharmonic
...in that order

Hope this helps.

BR
Sebastian


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## zimm83 (May 11, 2019)

OT's Nocturne cello. Very agile legatos ( 14 types .....).


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## oxo (May 11, 2019)

i do not know what is "the best". for me the best sounding cello is the tina guo acoustic cello legato ...but as you know for sure, it is only very limited useable.
when i look at the market, i usually see solo cellos that are either easy to play, where you can quickly get "into the flow"...but they are not very flexible and are only suitable for a few situations (tempo, style, etc). or i see monster libraries with lots of articulations that require a lot of effort to program, so the cello sounds good in the composition (for example chris hein solo cello, nocturne cello, emotional cello ...).

i own chris hein solo cello. with the current update you get 4 different sounding cellos. the library is extremely flexible with tons of articulations and options for customizations and tweeks. chris did a very good job. theoretically everything i can wish for. but .... the operating concept deviates strongly from libraries i'm used to otherwise. it is very logical and ingenious, but difficult for me to get used to. i lose myself in programming, instead of playing.

so what is "the best"? you can play immediately out of box beautiful lines ... but only suitable for certain kind of music. or is "the best", you can almost do everything ... but you feel like a midi cc event juggler.
in addition, one must like the sound and that it must fit well into the mix. everything depends on the personal taste.


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## keepitsimple (May 11, 2019)

Call me "unsophisticated" but i love the first and second chair cellos in LASS.


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## Daniel James (May 11, 2019)

oxo said:


> i do not know what is "the best". for me the best sounding cello is the tina guo acoustic cello legato ...but as you know for sure, it is only very limited useable.
> when i look at the market, i usually see solo cellos that are either easy to play, where you can quickly get "into the flow"...but they are not very flexible and are only suitable for a few situations (tempo, style, etc). or i see monster libraries with lots of articulations that require a lot of effort to program, so the cello sounds good in the composition (for example chris hein solo cello, nocturne cello, emotional cello ...).
> 
> i own chris hein solo cello. with the current update you get 4 different sounding cellos. the library is extremely flexible with tons of articulations and options for customizations and tweeks. chris did a very good job. theoretically everything i can wish for. but .... the operating concept deviates strongly from libraries i'm used to otherwise. it is very logical and ingenious, but difficult for me to get used to. i lose myself in programming, instead of playing.
> ...



I want to hear what all of your personal favourites are. I know best is subjective. Thats why I am asking the group and not individuals 

-DJ


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## KallumS (May 11, 2019)

Emotional Cello for me


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## mikeh-375 (May 11, 2019)

Just finished programming a cello concerto of mine in lieu of a real player and used mainly Hein. None come close to the real thing obviously, but Hein has some reasonable control on portamento which helps, along with a good choice of articulations. I also used some Emotional cello, SFA Wigmore cello and VSL in places. If I could only have one, it'd be Hein, unless Isserlis or Yo Yo Ma are available..


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## novaburst (May 11, 2019)

Noticed this the other day by Plugin Guru for Omnisphere 2,

There is a Violin, Viola, and Cello, here is the Cello.
https://www.pluginguru.com/products/megamagic-cello/


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## Mornats (May 11, 2019)

I'm waiting (and hoping) for a solo cello from Embertone of the same calibre as the Joshua Bell violin. It's always a special moment when I load that up.


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## constaneum (May 11, 2019)

zimm83 said:


> OT's Nocturne cello. Very agile legatos ( 14 types .....).



Beware of the legato. It's not that great. It has the dub dub dub sound during the legato note transition. I find it very unusable. Other articulations sound great though. I've owned it for years but end up didn't use it at all.


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## axb312 (May 11, 2019)

Emotional cello for me...


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## Dominik Raab (May 11, 2019)

Mornats said:


> I'm waiting (and hoping) for a solo cello from Embertone of the same calibre as the Joshua Bell violin. It's always a special moment when I load that up.



For a few months now, their site has been displaying something along the lines of: "We dropped the price of our solo strings to 99 bucks in anticipation of a large update."

I really hope that's it.


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## Ben (May 11, 2019)

Has someone tried the VSL Solo Cello 2? Would like to know what you think about it.


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## Rv5 (May 11, 2019)

Throwing forward my own offering: *The Alder Cello*, something a little different.

https://www.waverunneraudio.com/shop/alder-cello/



Also think it was the first if not only (correct me if I’m wrong) solo cello library offering the ‘seagull effect’ articulation ala George Crumb, much loved from my uni days.

We will update this library with legato one day. Spicc and Pizz to be added soon... Plus, for every sale, we plant a tree.

“_The Low Tide violin and cello patches are just glorious - you could score a scene with these alone. I find myself wanting to play these patches not as a traditional stringed instrument at all and layering up loads of intervals, and the tone and expressiveness makes for a spectacular blend of real and unreal when played like that._” - Guy Rowland


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## ism (May 11, 2019)

I recently wrote this about the cello in spitfire solo strings:



ism said:


> I've recently decided that the low G on the Spitfire solo strings cello is absolutely my favourite sampled G, ever. Seriously, you put on the close with a bit of tree and start with a slight downward crescendo to give it a bit of attack that kind of blooms in the tree mic, let the lowest dynamic layer resonant a bit then follow with a slight crescendo, invoke the vibrato, nudge into the next dynamic layer, which gives you this incredibly satisfying crunchiness ... I could go on.
> 
> I think this may be as close to the spiritual experience of playing the cello in AIR you can get without actually playing the cello in AIR. Wow do I envy the musician who played this G.
> 
> ...



(It's not hyperbole, but its obviously dramatized in a way that probably makes more sense in the context of the origional thread that this one).

And then tried to capture this sense in slightly more technical terms on a different thread, with refecence to this noodle:






ism said:


> There's a series of sweet spots to this library that I would call "uncompromising sonority meets as much expressiveness as possible (without compromising the sonority)".
> 
> The above cello noodle is emblematic of this. Once you figure out how to craft the arcs (and wrangle the vibrato), there's a really lovely lyrical sweet spot - and one that absolutely hinges upon fine control over the dynamics layers and the vibrato.
> 
> ...




So for Bach - Blakus cello tends to be my favourite. So long as I don't really need to use the dynamics or vibrato (which are simulated and at best okish)

For Tina Guo-esqe lines, well, Tina Guo Cello is easily my favourite cello (similar note about dynamics, and vibrato is baked it).

When I need languorous, long smoothly evolving phrases, (that don't especially need to coordinate with surrounding performances) or very fast legato, the Bohemian cello is usually my favorite (although I'm very interested in the Chris Hein also).


Then the's this sonorous, lyrical sweet spot that the above demo hints at in the Spitfire Solo Strings cello. And while I barely know how to describe what exactly it is, or how exactly the musicianship of the performer is captured so convincingly in the design choices made in the sampling and scripting, or even what exactly it is the tree mic is doing (though what ever it is, it should keep doing it), it makes this my absolute all time favourite cello (for the type of lines I'm writing this week).


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## ism (May 11, 2019)

Rv5 said:


> Throwing forward my own offering: *The Alder Cello*, something a little different.
> 
> https://www.waverunneraudio.com/shop/alder-cello/
> 
> ...





Can't wait for the legato. Kicking myself for not pick this up on the intro sale.


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## StillLife (May 11, 2019)

I really like the Spitfire celli (Artisan/alternative) and the one in the Solo Strings. But then I have very little to compare them to.


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## ism (May 11, 2019)

StillLife said:


> I really like the Spitfire celli (Artisan/alternative) and the one in the Solo Strings. But then I have very little to compare them to.



Spitfire artisan/Alternative cello is my favourite Vc Sul Tasto, bar none.


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## pderbidge (May 11, 2019)

For lyrical lines I've gotten great results from LASS FC Cello as well as Tina Guo.
I went looking for a more versatile Cello and at the time Emotional Cello was on sale. The only problem is I think I'm the only person on this forum who thought the legato in the examples sounded too much like fake midi cellos of the past. Yes, it has a nice tone but there just seemed to be too much, to my ears, that gave it away as a fake cello. Nevertheless, there were so many people, whose musical works I admired, that love this cello so I decided to go for it. I usually never go against my own ears no matter how well loved a particular VI is by the community, but this time with so many great composers on this forum vouching for it, I went for it. After noodling with it, I was saddened by the fact that it sounded just like I heard it sound in the demos. The point is, if you like the sound of the demos then go for it, but if not, then don't because it does indeed behave the way it sounds in the demos. I did persevere though and opened it up again more recently and I believe I found a legato patch that I quite liked but I can't remember the name of the patch. There are also are a ton of other useful articulations in Emotional Cello that it will still get used. The Emotional Violin on the other hand sounds great to me and I was able to get the cross grade pricing on during the current Best Service sale.
After some disappointment with Emotional Cello, I decided to pick up Tina Guo Vol 2 on sale and I prefer the legato in it over Emotional Cello, although I wish it had multiple legato options like you get with LASS FC. Also Vol 2 could use just a hair more vibrato to give it a bit more life therefore it's not going to have that same warmth that other Cello libraries do due to sounding a little bit unemotional at times that a little more vibrato would have remedied.
So I'm still on the hunt and it will probably be Chris Hein Cello. Everything I've listened to sounds really nice and in traditional Chris Hein style it seems very flexible. I would also consider Audiomodelings Cello, however there is this certain buzzing in the sound that I don't like. Other than that it sounds really nice and is really flexible as well. If it weren't for the buzzing I hear I would have picked it up already given it's price. I'm still on the fence over Embertone's Blakus as well. I have the other two so I should complete my bundle some day. Honestly, if someone offered me my choice of the lot as a gift there's no doubt I think Chris Hein would be my first pick for Cello.

One more to mention is the Cello in Macabre Solo Strings. It sounds really nice and you also get Violin and Viola with it. Only for legato lines but sounds like it excels at that. I don't own this one but I'm considering it.


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## NekujaK (May 11, 2019)

Yo Yo Ma


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## arcy (May 11, 2019)

VSL solo cello 2


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## Billy Palmer (May 11, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> Best solo cello out there, other than Tina Guo by Cinesamples???
> 
> -DJ


it's an instant-cello, hard not to love


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## ism (May 11, 2019)

pderbidge said:


> The only problem is I think I'm the only person on this forum who thought the legato in the examples sounded too much like fake midi cellos of the past. Yes, it has a nice tone but there just seemed to be too much, to my ears, that gave it away as a fake cello.



My theory is that there's a perceptual element to it. If you compare, say, Spitfire vs Chris Hein or Emotional, you have basically two extremes,

Spitfire: "Uncompromising sonority with as much expressiveness as possible without compromising the sonority"

CH: "Uncompromising expressiveness with as much sonority as possible without compromising the expressiveness"

The spitfire approach naturally has a certain artifacts in the form of bumpiness when transitioning between dynamic layers and vibrato vs non vibrato, which impacts the expressiveness.

Whereas the Chris Hein approach uses sophisticated techniques like phase alignment to avoid this bumpiness and maintain pristine expressiveness. Instead you get artifacts that impact the sound quality. 


And this is my experience listening to anything by CH and Emotional Cello - sublimely beautiful one minute, then suddenly a kind of "synthyness" in the sound quality coming from an underlying modelling technique. For me this just breaks the illusion, and is the only reason I haven't yet picked up these instruments. (Though there's still lots I love about them)

I can certainly hear the artifacts of the underly sampling techniques in the spitfire instrument, but they just don't bother me in the same way. They don't seem break the emotional illusion of listening to a cello, even if I know perfectly well intellectually that I'm hearing a few unrealistic artifacts in a line. I also think that they wash out more easily in context.

Many people seem to experience the exact opposite though. And I don't doubt their experience at all, which why I think there's something going on here at a fairly deep perceptual level.

As, I think it was Dumbledore who said: "Of course it's happening in your head Harry, but that doesn't mean it's not a real cello".


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## ChrisSiuMusic (May 11, 2019)

My preference has always been Tina Guo Legato and V2, but then again I haven’t written music needing other styles of cello. For what it does, Tina’s libraries work very well.


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## stfciu (May 11, 2019)

ism said:


> My theory is that there's a perceptual element to it. If you compare, say, Spitfire vs Chris Hein or Emotional, you have basically two extremes,
> 
> Spitfire: "Uncompromising sonority with as much expressiveness as possible without compromising the sonority"
> 
> ...





pderbidge said:


> For lyrical lines I've gotten great results from LASS FC Cello as well as Tina Guo.
> I went looking for a more versatile Cello and at the time Emotional Cello was on sale. The only problem is I think I'm the only person on this forum who thought the legato in the examples sounded too much like fake midi cellos of the past. Yes, it has a nice tone but there just seemed to be too much, to my ears, that gave it away as a fake cello. Nevertheless, there were so many people, whose musical works I admired, that love this cello so I decided to go for it. I usually never go against my own ears no matter how well loved a particular VI is by the community, but this time with so many great composers on this forum vouching for it, I went for it. After noodling with it, I was saddened by the fact that it sounded just like I heard it sound in the demos. The point is, if you like the sound of the demos then go for it, but if not, then don't because it does indeed behave the way it sounds in the demos. I did persevere though and opened it up again more recently and I believe I found a legato patch that I quite liked but I can't remember the name of the patch. There are also are a ton of other useful articulations in Emotional Cello that it will still get used. The Emotional Violin on the other hand sounds great to me and I was able to get the cross grade pricing on during the current Best Service sale.
> After some disappointment with Emotional Cello, I decided to pick up Tina Guo Vol 2 on sale and I prefer the legato in it over Emotional Cello, although I wish it had multiple legato options like you get with LASS FC. Also Vol 2 could use just a hair more vibrato to give it a bit more life therefore it's not going to have that same warmth that other Cello libraries do due to sounding a little bit unemotional at times that a little more vibrato would have remedied.
> So I'm still on the hunt and it will probably be Chris Hein Cello. Everything I've listened to sounds really nice and in traditional Chris Hein style it seems very flexible. I would also consider Audiomodelings Cello, however there is this certain buzzing in the sound that I don't like. Other than that it sounds really nice and is really flexible as well. If it weren't for the buzzing I hear I would have picked it up already given it's price. I'm still on the fence over Embertone's Blakus as well. I have the other two so I should complete my bundle some day. Honestly, if someone offered me my choice of the lot as a gift there's no doubt I think Chris Hein would be my first pick for Cello.
> ...



To be honest I am happy it is not only me that hear that things in emotional cello and I had exactly the same feelings. 

However as @pderbidge mentioned the emotional violin seems much better. I would really love to see update on the cello that would receive similar approach. Then it might be perfect.

But I do agree how @ism describes it. For this teritory (expressiveness) I still think emotional cello does it best along maybe with chris hein which I don't own to confirm this.

I don't regret my purchase anyway. I still think this is one of the best.

It is interesting what have been said about cinematic studio solo strings though as they would be my next choice. Now I have to take a closer look on spitfire solo strings till my wishlist cart is still on


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## Przemek K. (May 12, 2019)

I'd say there is no best but only whats best for a specific piece of music you are aiming for.
You want beautyful slow emotional lines, get Cinesamples Tina Guo Cello legato, maybe Virharmonic Bohemian Cello, You want to go for faster yet expressive stuff with tons of articulations, go for Chris Hein Solo Cello (you get actually 4 different Cellos in one lib) or Emotional Cello from Harmonic Subtones. It really depends on the type of music aou write, but also what features you need to suit your workflow. And personal taste of course, which is..well a personal matter I guess.


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## MichaelVakili (May 12, 2019)

Besides the Tina Guo - Blakus Cello /Embertone /,Nocturne cello /Orchestral Tools/ and Emotional Cello /Best Service/ are all great cello libraries.


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## VgsA (May 12, 2019)

As with other cello threads, I'm leaving here my official demo for Emotional Cello, I honestly think I wouldn't be able to pull this one off with any other virtual cello. But definitely, different tracks demand different cellos, at least IMO.


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## Pixelee (May 12, 2019)

Chris Hein and Virharmonic. Chris Hein has a lot of articulations, lots of possibilities. I quite like the British Cello tone.


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## wst3 (May 12, 2019)

What Przemek said - it depends!

I tend to start with either Tina Guo (either one) or Embertone Blakus Cello. But sometimes they are not exactly what I am looking for, so I'll turn to 8Dio, or VSL, or Spitfire, or sometimes (when I'm feeling especially masochistic) the Garritan Gofriller.

And "what I am looking for" could be as much playability as sound or available articulations.

I may be a little unsophisticated myself, but I do not find the lack of a proper cello (or anything) to be nearly as limiting as my own skills as a composer or user of virtual instruments. 

If I had an unlimited budget I'd probably own more, but really, I'm in pretty good shape these days.

The problem, of course, is that it is impossible to audition all of them, so we are left to the mercy of user demos. I don't envy anyone just starting out!


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## nas (May 12, 2019)

Another voter for Virharmonic. It has a gorgeous sound and I think they really hit on something with the bowing control. It's easy to play out of the box and very expressive but when you start to gain more facility and fluency with the forced key switches, you can get even more control and detail.


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## Reid Rosefelt (May 12, 2019)

Let me settle this once and for all with Brett Chen and Eddy Yang's TwoSet Violin video, "$1000 vs. $10,000,000 Violin." There are two things that come out of this video: first, a world-class musician like Benny Tseng can make any instrument sound good; and second, a world-class instrument can make any musician sound better.

I realize this is not a completely scientific test, but I trust Brett and Eddy.



So: Tina Guo has Gand & Bernadel Cello made in Paris in 1878. It costs a ton more $$$ than the other ones that were sampled for the other instruments, which as everybody knows, proves it is the best. To my untrained ears, the tone is yummily sonorous.

So the winner is Tina Guo, probably by a few hundred thousand bucks!! 

Also, as Brett and Eddy also show, some of you are better musicians than others, and could generate convincing and beautiful cello music with probably any cello VI, although more likely with Hein, because you really need to know your shit to manipulate all those freaking sliders.


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## midiman (May 12, 2019)

1- Tina Guo Legato V1

2- Virharmonic Bohemian Cello


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## ism (May 12, 2019)

VgsA said:


> As with other cello threads, I'm leaving here my official demo for Emotional Cello, I honestly think I wouldn't be able to pull this one off with any other virtual cello. But definitely, different tracks demand different cellos, at least IMO.




Really superb expressiveness. And the thought of trying to get anywhere near this music space with anything other the EC or CH makes me shudder.


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## VgsA (May 13, 2019)

ism said:


> Really superb expressiveness. And the thought of trying to get anywhere near this music space with anything other the EC or CH makes me shudder.



Thank you! TBH, I've never tried @Chris Hein 's cellos, so I wouldn't know, but based on previous experiences with the woodwinds (official demo below), I think they could be really inspiring too!


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## Trinity (May 15, 2019)

For sure Chris Hein is the one.


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## chocobitz825 (May 15, 2019)

For emotional cello, I wonder if perhaps some saturation or distortion and maybe some room emulation might change the overly smooth parts that end up sounding synth...I haven’t gone back into it in a while, but it definitely is one that provides the most expressive playing options, at the expense of a truly sampled instrument’s sound.


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## SoNowWhat? (May 15, 2019)

HS's Emo Cello here.
Thanks again Abel @VgsA


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## Dex (May 15, 2019)

chocobitz825 said:


> For emotional cello, I wonder if perhaps some saturation or distortion and maybe some room emulation might change the overly smooth parts that end up sounding synth...I haven’t gone back into it in a while, but it definitely is one that provides the most expressive playing options, at the expense of a truly sampled instrument’s sound.



It’s got a lot of saturation and reverb on by default.


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## Pedro Camacho (May 16, 2019)

CSSS Violin and Cello here:


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## mikeh-375 (May 16, 2019)

@Pedro ..nice to hear a subito piano. Overall, nice lyrical, expressive notes.


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## VgsA (May 16, 2019)

chocobitz825 said:


> saturation or distortion and maybe some room emulation



This is included in the FX part, actually


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## VgsA (May 16, 2019)

SoNowWhat? said:


> HS's Emo Cello here.
> Thanks again Abel @VgsA



My absolute pleasure!


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## oxo (May 16, 2019)

Pedro Camacho said:


> CSSS Violin and Cello here:




what a beautiful piece!


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## LHall (May 16, 2019)

Garritan Gofriller Cello. Unfortunately, discontinued years ago. But still one of the best VIs ever created in my opinion.


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## ism (May 16, 2019)

nas said:


> Another voter for Virharmonic. It has a gorgeous sound and I think they really hit on something with the bowing control. It's easy to play out of the box and very expressive but when you start to gain more facility and fluency with the forced key switches, you can get even more control and detail.




I love the Bohemian cello also, for some things.

But thinking about this a bit, I think it might be useful to tease about the multiple senses in which the notion of "expressiveness" is being used here.

So to my distinction of the above extremes of approach:

Spitfire: "Uncompromising sonority with as much expressiveness as possible without compromising the sonority"

CH: "Uncompromising expressiveness with as much sonority as possible without compromising the expressiveness"


Let me add a third:

Virharmonic: "Only allow lines in which you get both expressiveness and sonority".

Vir Harmonic is quite explicit, for instance, that they're unwilling to sacrifice the sound quality that comes with even basic crossading. So except for the legato, there is no crossfading to be found between dyanmic layers or vibrato, all expressiveness in dynamics and vibrato is baked into the samples right from the start.

If you play, for instance the pp dimenuendo arc on the Bohemian cello, its one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. But like all design decisions, it comes at a cost.


And this diminuendo arc lasts for something like 13 seconds. Which is an extreme example, because once you hit the key to start the arc, you no longer have any control on the expressiveness. At the most extreme, it feels like you've triggered a loop.

After playing with the spitfire cello (and the kinds of arcs its lets you craft) it can be incredibly painful to switch to the Bohemian, as you feel you're being railroaded into a very small set of possible expressiveness(es). Of course the reverse is also true, after writing lines of languid, slowly evolving progressive legato on the Bohemian cello, adapting to the kinds of arcs the roughness of the transitions on the Spitfire cello make it suited for can be equally painful.

So in achieving the sublimely beautiful expressiveness of the arcs baked into the samples , you (necessarily) also loose a lot of expressiveness in the ability to craft phrases.

The danger of this is that the phrasing being baked into the samples, when it doesn't quite coordinate with the phrasing of the rest of the composition it can also break the illusion and fall off the cliff ... though not into 'synthyness' in the way that CH or EC do.

The way I'd describe the effect is that there's a kind of uncanniness. Which I think is also what bothers me about the approaches of CH and EC - its not that it sound bad, its just that one minute it sounds like at pristinely beautiful cello, then the next we have even just a touch of 'synthiness' that ... in some way that you can't quite put your finger on ... breaks the illusion. And the danger is that you enter a kind of uncanny valley.

(Compare this to the bumpiness in the Spitfire cello. These can sound unrealistic, but to my ear its more like there's a problem with your speakers, so it's not that these artifact are necessarily more 'realistic' so much as less uncanny in the unrealism - just a theory)

And this is how I feel about certain user demos with the Bohemian instruments ... except at the level of phrasing. With the Bohemian you always hear a pristinely smooth and beautiful cello performance. But unless you've planned it carefully, very often the phrasing you get isn't quite in sync with the rest of the composition.

Yet unless you put on your analytical hat and really dig into why the phrasing isn't quite properly idiomatic in the context of the surrounding composition, then you get a pristinely beautiful cello, played with a phrasing that just isn't quite right ... and often just not quite right in a way that (unless you're a cello player able to analyze idiomatic phrasing) you can't necessarily quite put your finger on. With can also lead to a kind of uncanniness, though at the level of phrasing rather than sound.

That said, the Bohemian Cello has superb legato scripting, and the possibility of considerable manual control via key switching ... except that so far as I know no one actually uses it, as the plonkabilty arising from the virtual performer seems to be a major selling point (and it certainly provides a great deal of instant gratification). My own efforts at craft more idiomatic phrasing with keyswitches have been frustrated by a bug that causes UVI to crash when you use certain keyswitches in combination - although I've just got a fix from Alex, so I remain optimistic about squeezing better idiomatic performability out of this instrument.


So my point is that we're using the notion of 'expressiveness' in a number of distinct sense here.

All valid, but worth distinguishing.


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## Raphioli (May 16, 2019)

Since the existing ones I like have already been mentioned,
I'd like to name one which I'm hoping its under development or at least being planned.
Which would be from Performance Samples.

They have a solo series called Solo of the Sea. So I'm hoping they're developing a solo cello lib.


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## ism (May 16, 2019)

Raphioli said:


> They have a solo series called Solo of the Sea. So I'm hoping they're developing a solo cello lib.





I'm excited for this one also. But assuming it's the same as violin, it will be a single dynamic layer, with (I believe) no control over vibrato.

The expressiveness in this approach seems to arise largely from amazing quality of the legato, and the sense of 'flow' that it delivers'.

I also think that single purpose cello libraries tend to be more sensitive to the baked dyanmics of the arcs (think Tina Guo vol 1) than similar violin libs, so I'm curious to see how this works.


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## nas (May 16, 2019)

ism said:


> I love the Bohemian cello also, for some things.
> 
> But thinking about this a bit, I think it might be useful to tease about the multiple senses in which the notion of "expressiveness" is being used here.
> 
> ...




Good post and I agree with you. I found for example that the bumpiness of some of the swells in Bohemian Cello could get distracting and sometimes difficult to sit in a phrase at certain tempos, however, some of the forced key switches can help to alleviate some of that quirkiness.

Unfortunately there really is no one-size fits all with these libraries... especially with strings and solo strings, and as such it's also somewhat constraining to have to write for the samples and play to the strengths while trying to diminish or conceal any weaknesses. But this is how it's pretty much been with every sample library I've owned. Truth be told, in the case of a solo instrument, once I've mocked it up I'll usually go out and hire a soloist to come in and play the lines and breath life into it.


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## erica-grace (May 16, 2019)

ism said:


> I recently wrote this about the cello in spitfire solo strings:



Yikes!!!!


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## jtnyc (May 16, 2019)

chocobitz825 said:


> For emotional cello, I wonder if perhaps some saturation or distortion and maybe some room emulation might change the overly smooth parts that end up sounding synth...I haven’t gone back into it in a while, but it definitely is one that provides the most expressive playing options, at the expense of a truly sampled instrument’s sound.


One thing you can try is turning off the timbre in the effects section. It tends to really smooth things out. As already mentioned there is already saturation on it. You can of coarse increase that. I have the timbre off, the saturation on, the room reverb on, but turned down from where they set it and the hall reverb turned off. I use my own for a tail.

I'm generally happier with the timbre off. You get more of the string grit and a much more present tone overall. I tried the same with Emotional Violin, but it almost needs the timbre impulses. Without it it tends to sound quite thin and very whiney in the 2k range. There is no saturation in EV. That may be worth trying out as I'm still not knocked out over the general tone of EV.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 16, 2019)

I still use the solo cello patches from EW Symphonic Orchestra, they are still really good all these years later.


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## Mark Schmieder (May 17, 2019)

Of all of VSL's solo strings, the cello is the one that I have had the least trouble coaxing into musical results in all genres and articulations. I love the solo violin and viola as well, but I still have some trouble spots that I haven't gotten past, and so I continue to compare to other choices now and then.

I recently sold some other solo strings that are popular here, because after many hours with them, I just couldn't match the expressivity and phrasing of VSL. I could get somewhat close to the timbre, with Chris Hein (which I kept), and a bit with Embertone as well (or even Fluffy). VSL has the most articulations though.

I have come close to buying Emotional Cello and Violin a few times, but hesitate after reading and hearing some of the permanent limitations (sorry, my memory isn't good enough to detail what is missing -- maybe release samples?). Many of those demos do sound very good to me.

Before I got more proficient at making use of VSL matrices and presets, I had been using the solo cello from EWQL Orchestra for a few years. Now, it grates on me, as I'm used to more modulation on held notes that what I am personally able to achieve with that library. It does have a nice timbre though.


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## Cinebient (May 17, 2019)

Emotional Cello followed by Bohemian Cello.


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## Mark Schmieder (May 17, 2019)

Funny thing about the Bohemian stuff: I can't use it! I think I'm going to have to make room on my small SSD by kicking something else to the curb; surely that is why it doesn't work on my computer? It hiccups and stalls constantly!


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## Przemek K. (May 22, 2019)

Here is a video which was done by Chris Hein some time ago. He did use some of my music pieces where I did use his Solo Cello library:


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## CT (May 22, 2019)

Dominik Raab said:


> For a few months now, their site has been displaying something along the lines of: "We dropped the price of our solo strings to 99 bucks in anticipation of a large update."
> 
> I really hope that's it.



I emailed them about this a while ago, and unfortunately, it's just a planned scripting update to the solo strings. No new instruments or new sample content. I'm sure it'll be a great update, but....


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## ism (May 22, 2019)

miket said:


> I emailed them about this a while ago, and unfortunately, it's just a planned scripting update to the solo strings. No new instruments or new sample content. I'm sure it'll be a great update, but....



That's a pity, as what they're sorely missing is dynamic layers (at least the cello and violin, unless you find the eq modelling convincing, which I don't).

There was a post here involving both Embertone and Blakus noting that they actually had recorded new samples for the cello (but also that Blakus had himself lost interest). The cello is oldest and weakest in ISS. So hopefully 'major update' is more that script tweaking'.


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## Lode_Runner (May 23, 2019)

Embertone's Yo Yo Ma Cello


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## Parsifal666 (May 23, 2019)

I have to give it to the Hein, though Emotional Cello is a great, great library.


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## xanderscores (Nov 27, 2019)

Can anyone here share some experience about OT's Nocturne Cello, especially its "live playability"?
I didn't find any in-depth comments about it here, just a few mentions.

I'm asking because tweaking and editing takes away the magic for me. I do it only in small doses if necessary. I have CSSS, but I didn't get along with it at all. Notes that suddenly stopped, legati of which some worked and others didn't ... if it's anything like that, a Cello library is of no use to me, even if it's sounding great. Any thoughts on those aspects in regard to Nocturne Cello?


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## Shredoverdrive (Nov 27, 2019)

Chris Hein!


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## harmaes (Nov 27, 2019)

Never liked Chris Hein, personal thing. Best for me are Emotional Cello and Spitfire Solo strings Cello. For sketching these are great and give quick result especially Emotional Cello. I do work with a real cellist for exposed parts because those nuances and phrasing aren’t programmable.


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## AllanH (Nov 27, 2019)

I suggest giving Fluffy Audio's Simple Cello a look. I really like the tone and flexibility. It sounds very natural to me. At present it's $39.


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## synergy543 (Nov 27, 2019)

Don't forget the FREE Pocket Blakus Cello
Here:








pocketBlakus Cello - Free Cello Kontakt Library


The "pocketBlakus Cello" is a stunning free solo cello library for Kontakt created by Australian composer Blake Robinson.




vstbuzz.com


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## DSmolken (Nov 28, 2019)

Self-promotion alert: for something a little different, that's more about aggressive noisiness, Vengeful Cello is another option.


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## John R Wilson (Nov 28, 2019)

Embertone Joshua bell violin looks excellent, been considering getting it. Sure they will probably release a new cello alongside this in the future.


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## Dear Villain (Nov 28, 2019)

mikeh-375 said:


> Just finished programming a cello concerto of mine in lieu of a real player and used mainly Hein. None come close to the real thing obviously, but Hein has some reasonable control on portamento which helps, along with a good choice of articulations. I also used some Emotional cello, SFA Wigmore cello and VSL in places. If I could only have one, it'd be Hein, unless Isserlis or Yo Yo Ma are available..



Hi Mike,

This intrigues me. First, so glad to hear you wrote a cello concerto, which I'm sure is phenomenal as all your music is (is it shared anywhere?) But what I'm a little confused about is the idea of using multiple solo cello vi's throughout the work. How would this work from a sonority standpoint? Is the idea that you would take a long, expressive phrase for instance, and program it with one cello, followed by a rapid virtuosic phrase with another more suited to it? How does this all come together in terms of it sounding like a cohesive single cello? 

Would appreciate any info you could share!

Dave


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## mikeh-375 (Nov 28, 2019)

Hi Dave,
Hope all is well.
Sorry but I have nothing to give you on this. I didn't bother matching at all, even mid phrase. If one couldn't do something well, I tried others until I got something reasonable. It wasn't as bad as you might think, there where large parts on one sample set alone, with perhaps a few moments on another. I will be putting a real player on to it at some stage, so I wasn't too bothered so long as the essence of the music was there for the players benefit when first hearing the piece. That piece is old news now as I've nearly finished a violin concerto....and...... (wait for it)..... it's tonal...with tunes!!! (well tonal -ish if you get my drift).


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## Dear Villain (Nov 28, 2019)

That's great news, re. the violin concerto, Mike! Tonal...with tunes, well tonal-ish...walk it back a little: "the essence of tonality", or "fragments of discernible harmony", or "woven deep in the fabric of atonality, exists a sequence of notes that, when revealed, will give the listener a sense of tonal serenity" (please wash the score in cold water, so as to not allow the ink to smear).

OK, so in all seriousness, I've no doubt you're capable of writing whatever you wish, as long as you wish to do so  

Thanks for explaining the whole cello thing. I feel better knowing there isn't some dark magic in the world of vi production that would allow you to make the 4 cello vi's work in perfect symbiosis. Of course, getting the live cellist to record your concerto is no doubt a better solution than all the vi's in the world. 

Keep on being productive!

Dave


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## mikeh-375 (Nov 28, 2019)

Putting them all in the right space went a long way to unifying them. The differing sounds/articulations where chosen for specific musical purposes and sections and one could justify the changing timbre if chosen wisely on that basis alone (with half closed ears of course). Mainly though, I didn't worry too much about it, it was more a case of getting the rest of the orchestral samples fit for purpose.


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## josephspirits (Dec 1, 2019)

Was thinking of picking up Tina Guo on sale. Anyone have thoughts on whether I can get away with just Vol 2 for $50, or should I go for Vol 1 and 2 for $90 together?


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## proxima (Dec 1, 2019)

josephspirits said:


> Was thinking of picking up Tina Guo on sale. Anyone have thoughts on whether I can get away with just Vol 2 for $50, or should I go for Vol 1 and 2 for $90 together?


I just bought both. My initial impression is that if you want slower, melodic lines, vol 1 is fantastic. The arco legato on vol 2 seems a bit more flexible for faster lines, but it doesn't inspire the way vol 1 does. But it really depends on the kind of music you'll want to play.


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## David Kudell (Dec 1, 2019)

proxima said:


> I just bought both. My initial impression is that if you want slower, melodic lines, vol 1 is fantastic. The arco legato on vol 2 seems a bit more flexible for faster lines, but it doesn't inspire the way vol 1 does. But it really depends on the kind of music you'll want to play.


Yep I also bought both and like the sound of Vol 1 better. Really nice vibrato, whereas vol 2 doesn’t have much vibrato.


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## josephspirits (Dec 1, 2019)

David Kudell said:


> Yep I also bought both and like the sound of Vol 1 better. Really nice vibrato, whereas vol 2 doesn’t have much vibrato.



Good info, thank you both.


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## Eldhrimnir (Dec 1, 2019)

LHall said:


> Garritan Gofriller Cello. Unfortunately, discontinued years ago. But still one of the best VIs ever created in my opinion.



Agreed.


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## Akarin (Dec 1, 2019)

I have lots of solo celli, yet Fluffy Audio's Simple Cello, although not having many articulations, is my favorite. I love it for round, emotional exposed parts.


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## givemenoughrope (Dec 1, 2019)

Seems like the answer is either all of them or none of them. I’m giving up on realism completely and trying to decide of Audiomodeling or Samplemodeling.


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## Pianolando (Dec 2, 2019)

Some of Chris Heins cello demos makes me think that very few, if any could reliably say if it’s a real live performance or not. The programming skills to pull that off is another question, plus the huge time it takes to edit everything in that level of detail. Basically you have to be a jedi knight level VI guru and work several days with a single performance. Plus you have to know A LOT about cello techniques. Amazing instrument though, both beautiful and versatile.


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## Eptesicus (Dec 2, 2019)

Cinestrings solo cello is lovely.


For lyrical/legato playing, I think Performance Samples solos of the sea cello ( if it comes out) will likely be the most realistic sounding, if it comes out (based on how good the violin is).


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## mac4d (Dec 2, 2019)

A Tina Guo bundle for $90?! I bought the legato for $50 not knowing there was a bundle. That's a tad annoying it didn't occur to me to scroll further down page and there'd be a bundle. Part of that may have been I thought vol 2 added to vol 1 (and not to the legato patch product by itself). I am just not on top of things. Oh well. $40 saved to spend on something else.


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## tokatila (Dec 3, 2019)

Make babies and let them learn instruments. I have currently 2 learning Cello, 1 learning flute. It's not a quick fix but will pay off handsomely in the future.


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## Soundthrills (Dec 3, 2019)

mac4d said:


> A Tina Guo bundle for $90?! I bought the legato for $50 not knowing there was a bundle. That's a tad annoying it didn't occur to me to scroll further down page and there'd be a bundle. Part of that may have been I thought vol 2 added to vol 1 (and not to the legato patch product by itself). I am just not on top of things. Oh well. $40 saved to spend on something else.



Hey man, I actually did the same mistake. I wrote a support ticket on their website and they helped me getting it through a link and pay the difference. Now I have both! Just send them an email!


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## kelexys (Dec 3, 2019)

I bought the emotional cello, was 40% off, maybe it still is. Beautiful sound! Great instrument and for it's price one of the best cellos I think


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## a113jackson (Dec 3, 2019)

I don't own but one cello, and it's from CSSS. I don't think I'll be buying another one soon - it sounds magnificent. It has a pristine sound out of the box, and, while it's not super playable compared to the looks of some other libraries, it can really sound great. The legatos are convincing; I especially love the portamentos.

Vibrato control is a little iffy, as it's either on or off, and the crossfade between these layers is rather obvious unless you do some extensive covering effort.


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## BlackDorito (Dec 4, 2019)

Akarin said:


> I have lots of solo celli, yet Fluffy Audio's Simple Cello, although not having many articulations, is my favorite. I love it for round, emotional exposed parts.


I do like this one - easy to use and cuts through the thicket of instruments in a solo passage. Use it a lot, and it has only failed me in one way - if you have a staccato passage and want to throw in a longer note (marcato sustain), it gives you the option to add the staccato attack to a legato note, but I have never been able to get this to sound realistic.


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## BlackDorito (Dec 4, 2019)

All these wonderful cellos - my head is spinning. Lots of information in this thread and lots of great demos on the vendor sites.

I'm trying to figure out in the dying days of BF whether I want to spend $100 on Tina Guo (v1 & v2) or the Spitfire Solo Strings cello ... or not at all. This is based on what I understand is the current pricing, namely:

Tina Guo - $100
Chris Hein - $259
Emotional - $259
Spitfire - $99

I'm a bit price-driven in that I'm not thinking my needs are so profound that I will spend $250+ on a single instrument right now, however whether I buy a cello VI for $100 is more about managing SSD space and the rampant proliferation of instruments.

I set up a cello shootout project this morning which is the following (old Spitfire cello, Artisan, CSS, Fluffy ... and (not shown) VSL solo cello).






Let me say that these are good cellos, and I am familiar with them and their flaws here and there. My uses are fairly normal: legato & spiccato solo passages in orchestral pieces (non-epic), chamber/string quartet. Some day I might need some challenging concerto-level capabilities.

The question is: given the cellos I have, and my general sentiment that I can't point to anything horribly missing in my cellos, would I get anything remarkably new from Tina Guo or Spitfire? I'm hoping someone has some incisive opinion on this.


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## SAM CA (Dec 4, 2019)

How about those Audio Modeling string libraries? I've never owned or played one. I did listen to some demos in NAMM but that place is just way too noisy for any type of critical listening.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 4, 2019)

mac4d said:


> A Tina Guo bundle for $90?! I bought the legato for $50 not knowing there was a bundle


Write them and see if you can still get the bundle. It's worth it.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 4, 2019)

BlackDorito said:


> The question is: given the cellos I have, and my general sentiment that I can't point to anything horribly missing in my cellos, would I get anything remarkably new from Tina Guo or Spitfire?


I have both. Tina Guo has the MGM Soundstage, which really does make a difference. Vl 2 has a legato patch that's basically non-vibrato or very little vibrato, it's weird but can do very fast passages. It also has some sound fx and mini-phrases and a granular effect on them (if wanted).

Spitfire sounds excellent.


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## BlackDorito (Dec 4, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> I have both. Tina Guo has the MGM Soundstage, which really does make a difference. Vl 2 has a legato patch that's basically non-vibrato or very little vibrato, it's weird but can do very fast passages. It also has some sound fx and mini-phrases and a granular effect on them (if wanted).
> 
> Spitfire sounds excellent.


That's what I was afraid of ... they're both good. Means I need to examine my requirements. I wonder if an extreme simplification (in order to distinquish the two) would be that Tina Guo excels at long lyrical passages and Spitfire does a great job at many different articulations?


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 4, 2019)

BlackDorito said:


> Spitfire does a great job at many different articulations?


I don't think so, not sure. I have the whole Spitfire Solo Strings. AFAIK, the separate cello is only the performance patch, so legato/non vib/short/trem/pizz in one patch and it's controlled by CC, no keyswitches. 

TIna Guo 1 is only legato. Volume 2 has legato (little vib), spic, pizz, marcato, harmonics, open strings, sul pont. It also has a section for mini-phrases and fx, and versions of those with granular added. 

I attached a clip:

1. Spitfire
2. TIna 2 legato
3. Tina 1 legato


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## Mark Schmieder (Dec 4, 2019)

VSL's all the way, but for immediate playability, VirHarmonic's, and maybe the new one from Sample Modeling (if they've done an update yet; I didn't receive emails to that effect, but it was stated earlier that the vendor agrees that the timbre could be improved, even though other factors are already quite good).


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## ism (Dec 4, 2019)

BlackDorito said:


> That's what I was afraid of ... they're both good. Means I need to examine my requirements. I wonder if an extreme simplification (in order to distinquish the two) would be that Tina Guo excels at long lyrical passages and Spitfire does a great job at many different articulations?



SF certainly has lots of articulations. But it’s also fundamentally different in it’s sound and it’s design. Maybe the biggest different is the dynamics and the control of vibrato. TG has 1 layer with baked in vibrato. SF has 6 layers - 3 dynamics x 2 for non vib and vib. 

Again, this is my go to noodle to represent this




And the point is that here you’re crafting the arcs across dynamics and vibrato. TG is smoother. But it has little control over dynamics or vibrato.


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## Mark Schmieder (Dec 4, 2019)

I look forward to listening to that audio later tonight (hopefully). This is a good reminder to keep digging into Spitfire Solo Strings, as the Spitfire strings in general have now replaced all of my other options outside of VSL and are serving as an excellent alternate voice. But I hadn't noticed that there are six overall layers, so I appreciate that explanation above, and it gives me impetus to explore Spitfire Solo Strings further.


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## I like music (Dec 4, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> VSL's all the way, but for immediate playability, VirHarmonic's, and maybe the new one from Sample Modeling (if they've done an update yet; I didn't receive emails to that effect, but it was stated earlier that the vendor agrees that the timbre could be improved, even though other factors are already quite good).



OK. So I hadn't just imagined that the dev had said that improvements were needed on the cello. I'm hoping they do the same for the cello section, since the cello sections really boom out and add some serious low end (which I haven't figured out how to remove) so this would be hugely welcome. Do you remember when they said they'd release the update?


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## Mark Schmieder (Dec 4, 2019)

I don't remember them giving a ballpark estimate. Vaguely I recall a target of the turn of the year, more or less, but I don't know if they knew what had to be done already, or if it is an open-ended development question that might hold some surprises. I think it was in a thread in this forum vs. the product announcement forums.


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## I like music (Dec 4, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I don't remember them giving a ballpark estimate. Vaguely I recall a target of the turn of the year, more or less, but I don't know if they knew what had to be done already, or if it is an open-ended development question that might hold some surprises. I think it was in a thread in this forum vs. the product announcement forums.



Thank you. I'll go looking for it. I really like the strings, but the cello section causes issues in its current form...


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## BlackDorito (Dec 4, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> 1. Spitfire
> 2. TIna 2 legato
> 3. Tina 1 legato


Great comparison @Sears Poncho - the Spitfire seems to have vibrato 'on' while the Tina1 seems to have it organically growing .. a bit more realistic. I can see how the Tina2 is not vibrato-laden, but still has some life to it - which is useful.


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## BlackDorito (Dec 4, 2019)

ism said:


> SF certainly has lots of articulations. But it’s also fundamentally different in it’s sound and it’s design. Maybe the biggest different is the dynamics and the control of vibrato. TG has 1 layer with baked in vibrato. SF has 6 layers - 3 dynamics x 2 for non vib and vib.
> 
> Again, this is my go to noodle to represent this
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info @ism - in your noodle, are you pushing the Expression fader up & down here and there? 

Generally speaking, I guess what I may be hearing is:

- dynamic layers: SF has them (... as usual; I have lots of SF libraries), whereas for Tina, I would potentially need to tack on some EQ to get less strident lower dynamics. Needless to say, if I wanted Tina to cut through in an orchestral mix, I would not be EQ-ing it down.

- vibrato: for SF it is either on or off; for Tina it grows, but that is baked in.

I imagine that I can mix/match Tina v1 (legato) with Tina v2 (artics) within a passage and they would blend imperceptibly ... which would give quite a bit of flexibility. [One thing with @Sears Poncho's example above, the Tina v2 cello seemed to have a less definitive stage position across all the notes .. in other words, for a few notes it seemed to switch its pan location]


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## Reid Rosefelt (Dec 4, 2019)

No love for Bohemian Cello? No key switching on this video at all--just playing.

​


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## BlackDorito (Dec 4, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> No love for Bohemian Cello?


Sheesh Frog, those Onbow and Midarc articulations sound good. Don't bring more uncertainty into my life  I think I've seen a few comments in this thread about synthy-ness for Bohemian. Is that a problem?


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## ism (Dec 4, 2019)

BlackDorito said:


> Thanks for the info @ism - in your noodle, are you pushing the Expression fader up & down here and there?
> 
> Generally speaking, I guess what I may be hearing is:
> 
> ...




Well technically, all I’m doing in this passage is just moving the mod wheel. But I‘ve also written a little script that infers the vibrato from the dynamics (and tweaks cc11 a bit, but only quite subtly to smooth the transitions), as per this thread:






Spitfire Solo Strings: How I learned to stop worrying and love vibrato


So the short version here, is that after a lot of experimenting, and via a "performance vibrato" script that I've developed, I think I've finally managed to get my head around the vibrato in Spitfire solo strings. And found a way to make it much more playable 'out-of-the-box'. Here's my first...




vi-control.net






The Tina Guo (like the Blakus) by contrast, is already attempting to simulate dynamics with eq. Which for the most part drives me crazy. The saving grace is that there are dynamic arcs already baked into the samples, so you can alter the dynamics a bit with the mod wheel (and the eq this implies) so long as you’re only exaggerating the existing arcs, and not trying to craft dynamics that aren’t already there. But that’s about it. I just wouldn’t use the TG (vol 1 - I don’t have 2) for any line that doesn’t fit with the existing arcs. Or for anything in the p-mp range. 

Whereas in my above SF noodle:




there are a great many note (ie individual notes, not just phrases) crafted across all three dynamic layers and the 2 vibrato layers, so are cross fading between 6 samples per note. 

So there is a bumpiness you can hear all this crossfade. But what you get for this bumpiness is much better sound (a sampled p layer in the SF cello is infinitely better that the TG’s fake eq’d p layer) and the ability to craft your arcs across these dimensions.

In Sears Poncho’s above clip, the phrase is seemingly designed to be exactly the type of phrase that the TG is best at, and the SF phrase isn’t crafted nearly as much as it could be. So it’s a useful comparison of tone, but a limited comparison of the respective expressive spaces. 




Sears Poncho said:


> I attached a clip:
> 
> 1. Spitfire
> 2. TIna 2 legato
> 3. Tina 1 legato



So just to clarify this:



BlackDorito said:


> the Spitfire seems to have vibrato 'on' while the Tina1 seems to have it organically growing .. a bit more realistic



The progressive vibrato is baked into TG, but you need to add it you’re i the Spitfire cello. Either with the crossfade, as in the above noodle, or by using the progressive vibrato that ‘s now a part of the new performance patch (which wasn’t out when I noodled the above)

One final nuance - yes, the SF cello vibrato crossfade is either on or off. But it’s also different on each of the dynamic layers. So if you’re crafting your dynamics idiomatically, in practice you very often get a much smoother transition that you would think if you are just doing it statically.


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## ism (Dec 4, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> No love for Bohemian Cello? No key switching on this video at all--just playing.
> 
> ​




Lots of love for the Bohemian. It is an utter joy to play. 

It’s just that between the sound and minimal (by design) ability to craft your arcs, I’ve never been quite able to make it work in context, and always end up reaching for something else. Though it’s on my to do list to figure out how to make it work somewhere.


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## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2019)

ism said:


> One final nuance - yes, the SF cello vibrato crossfade is either on or off. But it’s also different on each of the dynamic layers. So if you’re crafting your dynamics idiomatically, in practice you very often get a much smoother transition that you would think if you are just doing it statically.


It’s actually pretty remarkable how well the transition works once you get used to how the instrument works, especially in context. These days I rarely think about moving across the transition. You start to feel when the transition will sound natural, though I remember when I first got the instrument it often felt like a constant fight to tame the vibrato. (I recall a post, I think by you, entitled something like “how I learned to love vibrato...” or some such.) in any case in practice the on/off aspect of the vibrato proves only rarely to be a problem as moving back and forth across the boundary works far better than it has a right to.


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## BlackDorito (Dec 4, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> moving back and forth across the boundary works far better than it has a right to


And yet with Tina Guo, we don't have these boundary issues.


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## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2019)

BlackDorito said:


> And yet with Tina Guo, we don't have these boundary issues.


No, but you’re limited in other ways.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 4, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> No, but you’re limited in other ways.


The "classic" legato of volume one has some serious intonation problems and lots of quirks. It's still great and IMO the best sounding cello legato. Those slides have yet to be equaled. 

I wish Cinesamples would repackage it: Have 1 and 2 together as one library, along with some of the original articulations in the "sound design" package. The original package has electric cello fiffs, Erhu, loops, phrases, drone builders etc but it also has 4 "normal" articulations. If CInesamples picked the best stuff, re-did a few things and put it all together are one keyswitchable program, I think they would have the best cello on the market.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 4, 2019)

I think a lot of people might not know that this even exists. It's the original Tina "sound design" library. At has an arpeggiator, all kinds of effects, a "chaos" button that is pretty cool. The rock riffs and phrases are really good. As for acoustic, there is a short in there that's very crisp. It's a big package.


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## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2019)

Sears Poncho said:


> The "classic" legato of volume one has some serious intonation problems and lots of quirks. It's still great and IMO the best sounding cello legato. Those slides have yet to be equaled.
> 
> I wish Cinesamples would repackage it: Have 1 and 2 together as one library, along with some of the original articulations in the "sound design" package. The original package has electric cello fiffs, Erhu, loops, phrases, drone builders etc but it also has 4 "normal" articulations. If CInesamples picked the best stuff, re-did a few things and put it all together are one keyswitchable program, I think they would have the best cello on the market.


I have no issue with the library, it seems well designed for what it aims to do, and many have used it to excellent effect. It’s just as @ism points out it’s optimized for certain things and that optimization gets in the way of doing other things.


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 4, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I have no issue with the library, it seems well designed for what it aims to do, and many have used it to excellent effect. It’s just as @ism points out it’s optimized for certain things and that optimization gets in the way of doing other things.


Agreed. That's why I wish Cinesamples would go back, clean things up, fix some weird stuff and repackage it along with 2 as one complete cello.


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## BlackDorito (Dec 6, 2019)

Well in the end I went on pure instinct - which told me I already have too many Spitfire libraries - and I went with the Tina Guo v1 + v2 bundle. I will download and start noodling next week when I return from a business trip. Pretty sure I'm going to have fun with it.


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## Peter Williams (Apr 3, 2020)

VgsA said:


> As with other cello threads, I'm leaving here my official demo for Emotional Cello, I honestly think I wouldn't be able to pull this one off with any other virtual cello. But definitely, different tracks demand different cellos, at least IMO.



This cello is the one that best fits my usual style of thinking and playing, although all of the ones mentioned have unique character and some real strengths. It also has much in common with the Emotional Violin, which I love to play. For fast passages, I find the VSL solo cello very useful, albeit an older library. The VSL solo viola is no slouch either. We need 'em all!


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 3, 2020)

VSL remains my top choice for the solo strings; my favourite part of the library alongside the woodwinds (and some of the percussion). I was surprised to see that it hasn't been SYNCHRON-ized, and mean to check out Dimension Strings (which I own) in more detail this weekend to see if it is also intended for featured solo parts (i.e. concerto-context or sonata).

The Emotional series almost got bought a few times, but there were some key missing features that always made me hesitate. I forget whether they got an update or not. I should give them another look. But I definitely find VSL Solo Strings to be surprisingly versatile across all genres; I didn't expect that.


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## labornvain (Apr 3, 2020)

keepitsimple said:


> Call me "unsophisticated" but i love the first and second chair cellos in LASS.


I was just going to post the same thing. I had kind of forgotten about the LASS 1st Chair, but I was listening to an old track I did several years ago and was blown away by the solo cello. I dug out the project to see what it was and couldn't believe it. It's really a magical little patch.


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## Sunny Schramm (Jun 4, 2020)

Rv5 said:


> Throwing forward my own offering: *The Alder Cello*, something a little different.
> 
> We will update this library with legato one day. Spicc and Pizz to be added soon... Plus, for every sale, we plant a tree.



Any news for the "legato"? Bought the Alder Violin last night and love it


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## Mark Schmieder (Jun 4, 2020)

It's good to hear The Alder Cello mentioned by someone familiar with it. I was curious when I saw it announced, but had too many things on my plate, and other priorities, to even bother listening to the demos yet, as it's not a vendor that I knew about previously. But now it sounds like I should keep them on my radar.


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