# Is the art of the traditional film score being lost?



## Alastair (Oct 29, 2013)

Hi guys, the topic title is the title of an essay I will shortly be writing as a part of my University degree. I think it's quite an interesting subject, and thought I'd conduct some primary research in the form of leaving a few questions here for you experienced people to answer. You can answer as many or few of the questions as you wish, in as much or as little detail. Depending on whether the answers support my arguments or not (they undoubtedly will), bits of them might be quoted in the essay (as long as that's OK!)

I would ask that you leave your name under the answer if possible (you could answer via PM if you don't want to post it here), so that I could say "John Smith, composer, said: '.....'"

I could post up the final version of the essay here after it's been submitted and marked if anyone would like to see it. 

Thanks in advance, Alastair.

Questions:

*Do you feel that the method of composing straight into DAWs has changed film music for the better, or worse?

Do you feel that the art of the traditional orchestral score (ie. John Williams’ style) is being lost in mainstream films in favour of more electronic/sample based scores?

Has the onset of collaboration between composers (Remote Control Studios) been a good thing for film music in general?

What are your opinions on films where the lines are blurred between sound design and score (ie. The Dark Knight)? 

Has sound design had a positive or negative impact on film music?

As a composer, are you ever asked to compose in a particular style (perhaps in the style of another soundtrack, or another composer)? Is this a good thing?*


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## Conor (Oct 29, 2013)

I also think it's an interesting subject, and eagerly await the answers of all the [strike]old farts[/strike] people far more experienced than myself on this forum. :D

BUT... if you'll forgive me... it sounds like you've already made up your mind and are planning to selectively pick quotes to support your pre-existing arguments? That's not research, that's more like "going on the internet to find people who agree with me."  (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/01/06)

Do what you gotta do for your essay, just keep an open mind.

(And in case you're not aware, any comment you may get from "mverta" or "rctec" on this topic will be gold...)


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## Alastair (Oct 29, 2013)

CobraTrumpet @ Tue Oct 29 said:


> I also think it's an interesting subject, and eagerly await the answers of all the [strike]old farts[/strike] people far more experienced than myself on this forum. :D
> 
> BUT... if you'll forgive me... it sounds like you've already made up your mind and are planning to selectively pick quotes to support your pre-existing arguments? That's not research, that's more like "going on the internet to find people who agree with me."  (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/01/06)
> 
> ...



Oh, I've not formed much of an opinion yet. I literally decided the title this morning, what I meant was that I'll pick out quotes that support both sides of the argument. The essay will be arguing for and against the title, so I promise it'll be balanced 

And yes, I'm well aware of your second point


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## Conor (Oct 29, 2013)

Cool, good luck!  o[])


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## Danny_Owen (Oct 29, 2013)

I'll stick my neck out and go for a few answers



Alastair @ Tue Oct 29 said:


> Questions:
> 
> *Do you feel that the method of composing straight into DAWs has changed film music for the better, or worse?
> 
> ...



*1) Do you feel that the method of composing straight into DAWs has changed film music for the better, or worse?*

I think that it has given composers more options (in terms of adding synthesis and unusual sampled instruments very quickly), but I believe at the heart of things, the film studios, directors and producers are more responsible for changing film music than DAWs. They are simply a tool to be used, and so I think they have changed things for the better- there is still the option to score with pencil and paper or use notation software.

*2) Do you feel that the art of the traditional orchestral score (ie. John Williams’ style) is being lost in mainstream films in favour of more electronic/sample based scores?*

The percentage of box-office charting movies that don't feature some kind of orchestra (be it real or sample based) is quite minimal. Further than that I think this question needs refinement.
Calling John William's 'traditional' is interesting... is that because he's the furthest back you've looked? Why not count Morricone, Hermann or go way back to Max Steiner and co? The don't sound the same as Williams, and neither do the majority of today's movies. So what do you define as a 'traditional' orchestral score? 

*3) Has the onset of collaboration between composers (Remote Control Studios) been a good thing for film music in general?*

I believe so. With tight deadlines, it's a lot for one man to do alone. More collaborators hopefully means more inventive scores, and that is something I appreciate.

*4) What are your opinions on films where the lines are blurred between sound design and score (ie. The Dark Knight)? *

Great if done well. Like any music writing, it can sound great or like a horse's arse.

*5) Has sound design had a positive or negative impact on film music?*

Positive. There's no reason why EVERYTHING needs to be said with an orchestra (unless it's intrinsic to the style, say a classic period piece). Again, more tools for the job. 

*6) As a composer, are you ever asked to compose in a particular style (perhaps in the style of another soundtrack, or another composer)? Is this a good thing?*

Yes I have. Whether it's a good thing or not depends on what the director/producer is after and why he hired you and who's point of view your taking. It'd be nice if the whole were a collaboration, but the director/producer will call the shots at the end of the day. I'd say it's a bad thing for creativity and for the composer's self-enjoyment in creating a good score, but it will undoubtedly be a good thing for you getting something that the director/producer will approve as he's pointing you in the direction he wants by referencing other soundtracks.


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## JohnG (Oct 30, 2013)

I think it's still happening, if you define the "traditional" film score as being film score music that borrows a lot of techniques originally found in concert music / academia. Marco Beltrami incorporates a lot of pretty cool ideas in his music, which, though it uses plenty of synth elements, still sounds raw and acoustic overall.

Thomas Newman also stretches the vocabulary, though in a really different way of course.

I don't know when we get another monumental master like John Williams, though. His encyclopedic knowledge amazes me every time I listen to one of his scores. That plus his always-sure conducting and handling of the orchestra dominates practically every other composer, at least with regard to traditional orchestra.


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## dannthr (Oct 31, 2013)

Alastair @ Tue Oct 29 said:


> Questions:
> 
> *Do you feel that the method of composing straight into DAWs has changed film music for the better, or worse?
> 
> ...




*Do you feel that the method of composing straight into DAWs has changed film music for the better, or worse?*

The DAW was an inevitable addition to the home computer. There are many things that has happened to music because of the increased accessibility of music production technology. This is not just about film, it's about making art and empowering more people with the tools necessary to make that art.

This results in two massive changes--one I would qualify as good and one as bad:

1) Closing the gap between the top and bottom of the production classes means that you no longer have to earn your access or (net)work your way into the studio, it means that more people can create art and with more people creating art at a higher production level, the less the artists need to rely on earning access to create something amazing or get their voice out there--the hope being that we will begin to distinguish art for its merit and voice rather than its production polish or flash.

2) Unfortunately, with so many people creating higher production art, we have a massive saturation of what is now called "content" and with it a massive depreciation for art. Art is now a consumable and people have little regard for the inflated production polish and moreover appreciate the creative process even less.

Personally, I love it. As someone who grew up fairly poor, who despite this undertook massive debt to go to college, and who pushes his technology every gig--I appreciate every ounce of technology in my grasp and hope these production balloons will help me reach even higher with what I can create.

*Do you feel that the art of the traditional orchestral score (ie. John Williams’ style) is being lost in mainstream films in favour of more electronic/sample based scores?*

To be honest, I'm not sure what this means. I think you mean "pure orchestra" or something, but I seem to recall synths being used in one or two early Star Wars films.

Here's what I have to say about that: Progress.

If it weren't for people adopting new sounds and music technology, not only would we not have adopted written music systems, allowing us to eventually arrive at more complex 4 voice writing, but Guillaume Dufay wouldn't have added EPIC Brass to his choral based Nuper Rosarum Flores; Mozart would have never touched a Piano; without improvements made to brass instruments, Beethoven wouldn't have been able to write any of his symphonies; and, if Tchaikovsky hadn't fallen in love with the novelty of the Celesta, the Sugar Plum Fairy would have been dancing to something else entirely--music technology is a component of musical expression as an evolving medium over the course of human development. Synths aren't external to the orchestra, synths are the next step, the next instrument to join the chorus.

Just look at the period during the first half of the 20th century, orchestra composers were flipping out--struggling, whining that every thing is the same, that there hasn't been innovations to orchestral instruments for like 50 years--so they slowly begin to go mad with atonality--the saving grace being that film came along and gave composers a way to tame their insanity. But synthesizers and more importantly, the synthesizer you could have in the studio or on the stage was huge and everyone wanted a piece.

It's progress, it's how we move forward with art. You can't stay still--we just have to remember that it's not just about shock or doing something new, it's also about being excellent, brilliant, or clever.

*Has the onset of collaboration between composers (Remote Control Studios) been a good thing for film music in general?*

First, I would like to qualify what I am about to say by first saying this: I don't believe in the value of the artist's ego. I like confidence in an artist, but I don't like when the ego forces the spotlight on the individual or when the "star" pushes out the appreciation for collaboration.

To me, there is no greater beauty than the things that humanity can create when it comes together and collaborates. I believe that the product of collaboration is greater than the mere sum of its individual participants and I think collaboration is not only great, but the key to a successful endeavor in any multimedia work.

That doesn't mean I dislike the soloist, far from it, I think personal and intimate endeavors can be incredibly powerful when articulated by a skilled voice.

What I find unfortunate is the way art is treated now, as a commodity and consumable. This is an unfortunate component to the business and industry of music making and I have seen collaborative and solo endeavors alike treat a film score like a constipated bowel movement they just want to squeeze out and forget. This is unfortunately the job and I think it's absolutely tragic that production companies and directors think 3 weeks or less is sufficient for a wall-to-wall feature length score.

*What are your opinions on films where the lines are blurred between sound design and score (ie. The Dark Knight)? *

I teach music production and sound design for video games and the more I explore these ideas the more I absolutely feel that there is no difference between sound design and music production.

The organ was one of the first additive synthesizers and orchestrators are basically sound designers.

The lines are only blurred because of the increased ease by which we can bring our musical sound sources together--this can only be good.

*Has sound design had a positive or negative impact on film music?*

See, what you're attributing to synthesizers, I think you mean to attribute to recording technology. All the major advancements in music have come from our ability to record and store music--first it was formalizing a written system, then it was recording an actual performance. Creating a written record of music empowered us to organize increasingly complex musical performances, which were the original products of music composition. When we could record the actual performance, then we had a new recording, and hey, look, you could cut that, and you could skip the record, and you could add another instrument on top of that and BAM! Pierre Schaeffer records some trains in 1948.

It's not just a good thing, it IS music, it's what music is--from the first time humans shaped their mouths to change their voice--sound design and music are the same.

*As a composer, are you ever asked to compose in a particular style (perhaps in the style of another soundtrack, or another composer)? Is this a good thing?*

My ego is hurt by such requests and I am often annoyed by being asked to be someone else.

However, while I think that the cheapening of the creative process is a terrible thing for music--the popularization of a sound or style and the trends and fads that drive such requests--things that keep my ego in check are often good for me.

Eventually, after I lick my wounds, I find it an exciting challenge to not only ace the mimicry, but then to lure the client back into the kind of music I want to make.

I do this often. I will usually sate the client's desire for their "dream" artist by giving them exactly what they want (which usually means that I have to study another composer's music and hopefully, hopefully learn something cool--learning is a huge part of why I work as a composer), and then I will try to sneakily bring them into more of the kind of music I think is right. It works almost all of the time, on the rare occasion for a revision, I always give them exactly what they want to avoid wasting time.

I do two things that are really important to me avoiding many revisions:

1) I try to do everything I do deliberately. This means that I have a reason for why I make creative choices thus giving my product purpose and meaning that is related to the client's work (as I join them respectfully and collaboratively).

2) I don't argue against change requests--I just do what they want as quickly as possible.


----

- Dan


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## Rctec (Nov 1, 2013)

...I was going to address some of this. But then I read Dan's post, which is such a beautifully articulate, intelligent and thoughtful answer to these questions that I realized I have not only nothing to add, but it would never be that elegant and informed.
-Hz-


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## dinerdog (Nov 1, 2013)

Priceless : >


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## ed buller (Nov 1, 2013)

amen


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 1, 2013)

Wow, Dan, superb post indeed. You've always shown yourself to have a sharp, honest mind.


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## misterbee (Nov 1, 2013)

Small but important point to the OP - in your paper, do not use ie (that is) when you mean eg (for example). John Williams style is an example of traditional orchestral style, not the definition of it. Dark Knight is an example of blurring the line between sound design and score, not the definition of it).

Interesting topic - I have nothing to add, just an observer. o-[][]-o 

R.


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## Alastair (Nov 1, 2013)

Wow, thanks for the answers guys - especially Dan's! Didn't expect anyone to answer them all in such detail.



misterbee @ Fri Nov 01 said:


> Small but important point to the OP - in your paper, do not use ie (that is) when you mean eg (for example). John Williams style is an example of traditional orchestral style, not the definition of it. Dark Knight is an example of blurring the line between sound design and score, not the definition of it).
> 
> Interesting topic - I have nothing to add, just an observer. o-[][]-o
> 
> R.



Thanks for that too, I never considered the differences between ie. and eg. - it's just sort of an automatic thing to write without thinking about it.


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## H.R. (Nov 1, 2013)

*Do you feel that the method of composing straight into DAWs has changed film music for the better, or worse? *

Absolutely for better. It makes it easier to be a film composer without having a huge orchestra. I live in Iran and finding people to gather around and play music is so hard because of a lot of problems. First I can't find a proper place, second, the government would make many blocks for me. Now I can sit behind my PC and have access to same sounds and instruments of great composers of Hollywood.

*Do you feel that the art of the traditional orchestral score (ie. John Williams’ style) is being lost in mainstream films in favour of more electronic/sample based scores? *

Good music never gets lost. It's completely normal to see people's taste change but like I said a good music never gets lost. For instance Hans Zimmer uses William Tell Overture in a film like The Lone Ranger and people with no knowledge of William Tell still enjoy it because it's just a masterpiece.

*Has the onset of collaboration between composers (Remote Control Studios) been a good thing for film music in general? *

Yes
1- It would help a great musicians make whatever is in their heads faster so we could have more great music.
2- Collaboration of great composers makes a music much better.

*What are your opinions on films where the lines are blurred between sound design and score (ie. The Dark Knight)? *

It blurred the line between score and the picture. For instance the bat wings flap in The Dark Knight trilogy gives the picture an Identity. An Identity that is exclusive for that film and this would make an score unique because it was written for a unique story. With sound design we can talk in many new ways through music.

*Has sound design had a positive or negative impact on film music? *

Hearing something new is always delighting so I think it can be a key for music's immortality. What if decades latter people get sick of all the same sounds of few instruments ?

*As a composer, are you ever asked to compose in a particular style (perhaps in the style of another soundtrack, or another composer)? Is this a good thing?*

I think it's something inevitable. Directors are not musicians and music is something that is not very well suited for describing or showing so they would give you an example. It's good to understand them but It also can kill the creativity somehow. I try to give my client an alternative. sometimes they like it and sometimes they don't.


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## vinny (Nov 1, 2013)

Is the art of the traditional film score being lost? 


Long answer...Yes
Short answer...Yes!

The fact that you put J. Williams as an example of( traditional)? film scorers, shows the innocence of your age IE post 1980ish


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## korgscrew (Nov 1, 2013)

Its a shame Hans didnt have more input as that would have looked great on your essay!

For a man who says he is humble, you sure can talk the talk when required =o


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## Alastair (Nov 1, 2013)

vinny @ Fri Nov 01 said:


> Is the art of the traditional film score being lost?
> 
> 
> Long answer...Yes
> ...



Ha, you are very right - I was born in 1993 so I do associate John Williams most with the traditional orchestral score. I really should start listening to more of Steiner, Korngold etc beyond their most well known scores.


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## Peter Alexander (Nov 2, 2013)

*Is the art of the traditional film score being lost?*
This needs to be the first question because you have to take into account how styles have changed for film scoring over the decades. _Music For the Movies_ by Tony Thomas blocks out a number of these periods and should be on your reading list for your paper.

*Do you feel that the method of composing straight into DAWs has changed film music for the better, or worse?*
Let's talk past and current history. Bach taught his students to hear the complete work in their musical imagination and to go from brain to paper, no keyboard at all. Those who used the keyboard he called Harpsichord Knights. In a pinch for time, Handel would simply write out the parts for a work and later compile the score. Not long ago, not having the parts available, John Williams dictated the individual parts to the Star Spangled Banner from the podium to the musicians. This is not a lost art, it just needs practice.

If a composer is going from brain to score only ala Bach, Handel, and Williams, and he/she is a good composer, and they can conceive the entire work in their musical imagination, then composing into the software hasn't hurt the composing process whether it's for film or something else. 

What I sense you're asking in your question, isn't about what I just described, but composing and producing the work at the same time in the sense of doing a full MIDI mock-up vs. a representation in Finale, Notion, Sibelius, etc.

In this case, it depends on whether the composer has full developed their musical imagination so that they can go direct to score because they know instrumentation, orchestration and their samples very well. No harm, no foul.

But if you don't have this skill developed, or you lack keyboard chops for whatever reason, then yes, the film composing process is diminished, as ably observed from so many pieces sounding alike. 

*Do you feel that the art of the traditional orchestral score (ie. John Williams’ style) is being lost in mainstream films in favour of more electronic/sample based scores?*
It's being lost in the sense that we as composers lack access to an orchestral ensemble. There's far more access to concert band ensembles to gain writing experience! But film scores aren't using concert (wind) bands. Consequently, the composer will initially develop their symphonic scoring chops with samples. 

BTW, schools with orchestration courses don't normally talk about this to their students who too often find this out the hard way, after graduation.

That's one side of it. 

Now the other side of it is that the art of orchestral scoring IS being lost because not enough composers spend time listening and going to live concerts. Read? Do score study? Not popular. Your ears alone can take you far. But score study with focused listening takes you deeper. 

*Has the onset of collaboration between composers (Remote Control Studios) been a good thing for film music in general?*
Onset implies a trend is forming. I don't see that trend forming because (business words approaching) it's a buyer's market and competition is fierce. 

Historically, among composers, there have only been two groups, both in France, where such cooperation/collaboration was found. The first was Les Apache and the second was Les Six. 

In Los Angeles, sometimes those who work well together and complement each other and have a governor on their egos have formed their own scoring companies and done quite well. Pete Carpenter and Mike Post come to mind. And there have been others.

Having said that, because of technology, a composer must put together a tech team to assist who also earns income from said composer, and isn't there to have their brains picked all day long. Composers today are the heads of their own music production and publishing companies and must proceed accordingly. 

Work your strengths, bring others in to work your weaknesses. 

*What are your opinions on films where the lines are blurred between sound design and score (ie. The Dark Knight)?*
This trend has been going on for a long time, maybe 30 years. If it works for the film, then it's great. But not many composers are able to do both, so again, you have to build a team.

*Has sound design had a positive or negative impact on film music?*
When an orchestrator has an oboe and a flute play in unison, that's sound design, though some techno purists will disagree. But this is where it starts. It's the application and use of new sounds to express something. If it fits the film and enhances it, it's good. But if you need to learn how to do sound design, if you don't have a passion for it (and I don't), then learning a program like Zebra will be a joy to some and a slog for others. 

*As a composer, are you ever asked to compose in a particular style (perhaps in the style of another soundtrack, or another composer)? Is this a good thing?*
You need to talk with arrangers who started with music first and MIDI later. 

This is so common across the industry. Arrangers have to know how to compose. One part of the professional gig is knowing how to write in lots of different styles, regardless of the genre. 

If you're in the UK, go look up Robert Farnon.

HTH


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## FriFlo (Nov 2, 2013)

A lot of wise things having been said already, I only feel the need to add this:
Sound Design and sort of musique concrete influences (really taking off with Ennio Morricone's Italy westerns) did have a phenomenal influence and I great incentives on the art of scoring. Nobody should honestly doubt that.
However, I do think, we live in an age, where sound design over and some other values have been decreased by a great amount. Todays film scores very often lack to challenge the listener/viewer in complexity of traditional crafts and arts of composition, like melody, counter point and harmony.
IMO a good example is the superman score before MOS. I remember reading an interview, where the composer John Ottman talked about having to adjust some harmonies of Williams original themes towards the present day taste. I think, that says it all. Some simple jazz chords have to become minor or major triads, because producers feel, it would not reflect the taste of a modern audience ...
This is really only one small example, where thousands could be found. But I would like to see those traditional crafts being applied more in modern filmscores - along with the craft of texturing sound by sound design as an equal partner. let's see what the future brings ...


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## FriFlo (Nov 2, 2013)

Composing into the DAW IMO is a great new addition to the ways of composing like sound design etc. But it definitively also means, that craft is being lost by so many composers. The craft of writing something purely based on your imagination and knowledge, which will always have a different level.
I think all of the questions being asked by the OP are ambivalent.


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## germancomponist (Nov 2, 2013)

FriFlo @ Sat Nov 02 said:


> IMO a good example is the superman score before MOS. I remember reading an interview, where the composer John Ottman talked about having to adjust some harmonies of Williams original themes towards the present day taste. I think, that says it all. Some simple jazz chords have to become minor or major triads, because producers feel, it would not reflect the taste of a modern audience ...
> This is really only one small example, where thousands could be found. ....



And now many producers feel that only Dubstep is the best for the "modern" audience. :mrgreen: 

What comes next? 

I think this all will change when the right moment arrives.


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## David Story (Nov 2, 2013)

Great questions, that will be even more important when you ask them of yourself in 20 years.

*Do you feel that the method of composing straight into DAWs has changed film music for the better, or worse?*

I love DAWs, but they aren't perfect.
The tool influences the work. Computers require a different way of thinking than a pencil. Only time will tell if this change is for the better. Right now it looks like computers favor engineering minds over artistic. That's a huge loss, since music is an art, including film music. Hopefully computers will continue to get simpler to use and art will be more alive and less technical. (Please don't go into exceptions, there are always people who thrive in any environment, the OP is asking about the change.)

*Do you feel that the art of the traditional orchestral score (ie. John Williams’ style) is being lost in mainstream films in favour of more electronic/sample based scores?*

The Tony Thomas books are excellent, thanks Peter for mentioning. 

If by traditional we mean the Hollywood Sound that became popular everywhere beginning in the 1930s, yes. That sound was already out of favor when Lucas and Williams updated it in Star Wars. It's now really been replaced by hybrid score.

As mentioned, that's part of the evolution of music, adding to the palette.

In TV and radio, orchestras have almost disappeared. That's a bigger change than in film and needs a major update.

*Has the onset of collaboration between composers (Remote Control Studios) been a good thing for film music in general?*

Collaboration is a good thing for many artists and for much of the public. There's many ways to do it. The team approach is used in every field today, from sports to software.The danger is when someone is thought to be more important than the good of the team. 

*
What are your opinions on films where the lines are blurred between sound design and score (ie. The Dark Knight)?*

Orchestration and sound design are two different things, and conflating them is plain confusing. A car by and a guitar are intrinsically different. Sure, you can add sound effects to music, that's an ancient idea. But saying it's all sound is missing the point. 

Music isn't sound, it's the ideas behind the sound. Poetry. If there's no deeper meaning, if it's audio wallpaper, it's weak music.

I love sound design, both hard effects and metaphor. Good sound designers understand music, and incorporate ideas of rhythm, pitch, counterpoint, and form. That doesn't make it music, and calling it music diminishes their craft. It's a different art form that overlaps. 

Ideally sound design and music should work hand in hand, but in reality they often conflict. In a dub mix you can see that they are different elements most of the time. That's one reason mixers like stems, to separate the effects and balance them.

*
Has sound design had a positive or negative impact on film music?*

Both. Depends on how they're mixed. 
If you mean creating new sounds to use in the composing process, that's usually positive.

*As a composer, are you ever asked to compose in a particular style (perhaps in the style of another soundtrack, or another composer)? Is this a good thing?*

That's funny! Composers are asked to write in a particular style all the time. That's the gig, to do what you do best while sounding like whatever they asked for. It's not good or bad, it's just human.

If you try and compose like someone else you'll come off second best. The producer or director should know that, but it's human nature to draw comparisons and to gravitate to the familiar. Sometimes all you can do is give them what they ask for even if it's just an imitation.

If the majority of a score is an imitation of a style, and performed with samples, it will probably suck. Unless it's electronica and that's your bag of tricks. That may be what your questions are aimed towards.

People are better than boxes in my view. If they are talented people who play with passion and skill then collaborating with them will make the best quality and potentially timeless music.

Thanks Alastair!


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## Rctec (Nov 3, 2013)

Someone just reminded me of this chat between director, composer and musicians:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1zUrHWAQfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9Tx_9qnHJc

...It's sort of a different way of answering some of your questions. But it's pretty honest about process.

Enjoy the madness 

-H-


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## givemenoughrope (Nov 3, 2013)

^That was pretty cool.

I really enjoyed the Lone Ranger film. I'm not a fan of westerns that try to be Leoni/Ford and miss the mark. This was a perfect mix of tribute, pastiche, action, comedy, etc.

I caught (at least) 3 very quick Morricone references, one on the watch from the first dollars film, one or two from Once upon a time in the west...I think with a character falling into the dirt... (There was also 'Shall we gather at the river' maybe a ref to the Wild Bunch...?)

Hearing Gore discuss music in regards to character, story, action...it doesn't seem like much of anything gets by him. Were these references snuck in or was he in on it? The fact that he mentions EM as temp music leads me to believe he was. Either way, very cool.


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## impressions (Nov 3, 2013)

"Has sound design had a positive or negative impact on film music? "

people call sound design the new orchestration.

I'm not sure I agree with that. The logic seems fine, and the audience will have less effort feeling a cool sound than a bunch of notes. to deliver the scene better.

but the result is that the craft is lacking in the notes, since it's more easier to digest a cool pad than a melody. so the composer is more of a sound designer than a composer who deals with notes. and isn't the craft of music is about the notes that dictate what instrument is best? not the other way around?

So I'm not so sure about that. I also hear much less notes than 10 years ago scores. in the melodies. melodies can be very powerful if brought in the proper context. i.e. the example hans just gave.


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## Peter Alexander (Nov 4, 2013)

"Orchestration is for the orchestra."
Jerry Goldsmith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUsI9RNUbZg#t=83


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