# Film scoring bar 1 in Cubase



## Gerhard Westphalen (May 9, 2015)

I'm wondering how you guys set the starting measure to a specific point in Cubase for scoring scenes. It seems that in Pro Tools its easy to do this with the set song start feature. Here's the only way I've found to do it in Cubase:

1. Set the bar offset so that the point you want is near the first measure
2. Manually move the video that bar 1 is on the frame you want it to be on
3. "Set timecode at cursor" so that the video TC and Cubase TC match

The problem with this is that you can end up with a large amount of space at the beginning of the project. If you try to offset the timecode or change the project start time, the measure numbers don't move along with it so the TC and video move but measure 1 doesn't so it throws it off.

The alternative is to warp time (or change tempo) so that you move a downbeat to the correct position and then offset bars but the problem with this is that the measures previous to 1 have a different tempo.

How do you guys deal with this?


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## Stiltzkin (May 9, 2015)

3 bar offset, extra ruler created with timecode on - sets the timecode of cubase to be bar 0 always

For making the video line up I just cut the video at 00:00:00:00 and put it on bar 0

Not sure if that covers what you mean as perhaps I misunderstood


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 9, 2015)

So for example I want the music to start at 00:00:43:00 and so want that location to be bar 1. If you use the method I described you can get that but then there might be an unwanted amount of space before the start of the video which you can't get rid of because there's no way to make the measure number locations follow TC.

Its easier to do if you host video in Pro Tools because its easier to manipulate things in Cubase that way and just resync if you want to change things. 

The major drawback that I'm finding is that if you want to change the starting tempo, you can't change it in the measure 0 to have a proper count in because it then throws off the position of bar 1. 

It would be nice if there were a way to lock a point in a measure to a timecode location so any changes keep those points together. 

Maybe in Junkie XL's tutorials that he said he was making will cover this.


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## jamwerks (May 9, 2015)

I never start in bar 1. You need to have space before the inicial downbeat for arts, CC's, etc. Also, any midi data apprearing before bar 1 doesn't export, so communication with collaborators gets screwed. It's a good habit to get into, to start always on bar 3 (or 2, or even further in).


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 9, 2015)

jamwerks @ Sat May 09 said:


> I never start in bar 1. You need to have space before the inicial downbeat for arts, CC's, etc. Also, any midi data apprearing before bar 1 doesn't export, so communication with collaborators gets screwed. It's a good habit to get into, to start always on bar 3 (or 2, or even further in).



I always start in about 2 or 3 bars with the CC's for resetting my template at bar -2. 

If you start at an arbitrary bar, still, how do you sync it with a specific spot? I can't seem to find any reasonable method where you're able to change the tempo of your starting bar and having the previous bar follow (with video either in Cubase or PT).

Video in PT still seems like the best way where you can change tempo (in the bar before), then locate to your starting bar and "set timecode at cursor" back to the frame you want it to start on.


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## scopemc (Nov 23, 2016)

GW have you resolved this issue? It does not seem like your question was answered. I still have not found out how to after I set my TC in my session to match the video and set it to the bar I want (bar 1 or 3), then change the tempo and keep my TC and bar position locked. Is this possible in Cubase. It is quite cumbersome if you are playing with tempos to match a film.

Thanks


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## Rctec (Nov 23, 2016)

Don't ever use bar 1. I can go into the reasons, but they are long and tedious. At RCP we have a standard that the cue starts at bar 5. We know, the musicians know, the orchestrator knows - and any crazy technology problem - like having machines lock, or automation catching up - give everyone a chance by having some free space at the front.

..Maybe I'll post our spec sheet here one day. It's a bit of hard-earned knowledge gained by countless hours wasted making mistakes...and stupidly detailed!

But we never waste time on an orchestra session or on the mix stage. That's really expensive time, and you might as well get into good habits early.

Best,

-Hz-


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Nov 23, 2016)

scopemc said:


> GW have you resolved this issue? It does not seem like your question was answered. I still have not found out how to after I set my TC in my session to match the video and set it to the bar I want (bar 1 or 3), then change the tempo and keep my TC and bar position locked. Is this possible in Cubase. It is quite cumbersome if you are playing with tempos to match a film.
> 
> Thanks



I don't think I ever found anything for doing this sort of retrospective tempo change. Easiest thing is to just sync with another rig running a master project so that you can just change the tempo and then resync the timecode. Doesn't seem to be any way around it if you're running video in the same DAW. If you do end up going that route, Pro Tools doesn't sync properly to Cubase so I'd suggest running Nuendo or a second Cubase.

And like HZ mentioned, I'd suggest starting at bar 5 or 9. The only time I don't do so is when I'm working on something that needs proper measure numbers (like when mocking up a classical orchestral work where I want to keep it the same as in the score). In that case I give myself a couple of negative measures.


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## Cecco (Nov 24, 2016)

Even in that case you could start on measure 3 (or 5 like Rctec suggests), and then:

1 Range selection the measures you need to eliminate
2 Edit - Range- cut time

If you work with a movie inside Cubase, you can do the same: just remember first to cut the the movie at the start of the bar that will be your new bar 1

Offset brings all kind of problems to the table.


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## AR (Nov 24, 2016)

Rctec said:


> Don't ever use bar 1. I can go into the reasons, but they are long and tedious. At RCP we have a standard that the cue starts at bar 5. We know, the musicians know, the orchestrator knows - and any crazy technology problem - like having machines lock, or automation catching up - give everyone a chance by having some free space at the front.
> 
> ..Maybe I'll post our spec sheet here one day. It's a bit of hard-earned knowledge gained by countless hours wasted making mistakes...and stupidly detailed!
> 
> ...


And I also set my Timecode in Cubase to -30sec or so. That always gives me little headroom for the video, in case we have to move the frames a little bit to the left. Though, the cue starts at bar 17 or so.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Nov 24, 2016)

Cecco said:


> Even in that case you could start on measure 3 (or 5 like Rctec suggests), and then:
> 
> 1 Range selection the measures you need to eliminate
> 2 Edit - Range- cut time
> ...



I don't think you understand the OP. It's not an issue of changing bar numbers (which you can simply do in the project settings). The issue is that in order to change the tempo and have the bar before (start - 1) be at the same tempo to have a lead in click, you need to constantly repeat the steps I mentioned in the OP. If you're using a master project DAW then all you need to do is change the timecode in Cubase. If the video is in Cubase then you need to keep moving around the video and offsetting bars. 

Just one more reason to love HZ's development of the split DAW approach. The only time for me that this is a problem is when I'm working on a short project with a single cue where I just do it in a single DAW. Anything more than that and I sync to Nuendo (or PT) since it offers so much more flexibility in making changes.


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## Cecco (Nov 24, 2016)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I don't think you understand the OP. It's not an issue of changing bar numbers (which you can simply do in the project settings). The issue is that in order to change the tempo and have the bar before (start - 1) be at the same tempo to have a lead in click, you need to constantly repeat the steps I mentioned in the OP. If you're using a master project DAW then all you need to do is change the timecode in Cubase. If the video is in Cubase then you need to keep moving around the video and offsetting bars.
> 
> Just one more reason to love HZ's development of the split DAW approach. The only time for me that this is a problem is when I'm working on a short project with a single cue where I just do it in a single DAW. Anything more than that and I sync to Nuendo (or PT) since it offers so much more flexibility in making changes.



Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought it was a matter of cutting empty bars at the beginning of the project.


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## scopemc (Nov 29, 2016)

Hey,thx for all the input everyone!
GW, I will have to research the dual DAW solution. HZ, I am really interested in your lessons learned spec sheet, if you could bring yourself to share it. 

Thx again


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## Sunshy (Nov 29, 2016)

I've dealt with this by making a 1 bar click track in the tempo you want, bounce it as audio, and then place it before the tempo change. Work around I know, but it works. I wish Cubase/Nuendo had a setting to "use upcoming tempo as precount" or something.


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## Daryl (Nov 29, 2016)

Sunshy said:


> I wish Cubase/Nuendo had a setting to "use upcoming tempo as precount" or something.


It does, as long as you are in record with the pre-count switched on.


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## brooklynjared (Apr 13, 2017)

I'm in the same situation as the original poster, and I still don't see an answer to his question. (Like the original post, I'm trying to switch from ProTools to Cubase, and am baffled by how this works in Cubase.) Maybe I can rephrase the question with specifics:

Say I want the left-most edge of my sequence to be 00:59:45:00 (so first frame of picture will be at 01:00:00:00 with a 15 second pre-roll) and I want the first beat of actual music (whether numbered as Bar 1 or as Bar 5 with a 4-bar offset or not) to be at 01:00:20:00. I want there to be one single tempo event, on the first beat of music. In ProTools, this is a snap: Set session start time. Place your cursor where you want the music to start and chose Identify Beat and set it to Bar 1, beat 1. Is this possible in Cubase?

Thanks!!!


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## AdamKmusic (Apr 13, 2017)

Rctec said:


> ..*Maybe I'll post our spec sheet here one day.* It's a bit of hard-earned knowledge gained by countless hours wasted making mistakes...and stupidly detailed!



Still considering this Hans?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 26, 2017)

Does this video help? This is a good explanation on how to line up video with the timewarp tool.


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## jononotbono (Apr 26, 2017)

I've been using an offset of -5 Bars in Cubase for quite some time and starting at Bar 1. Is this a bad idea then despite having 5 bars before the first downbeat of Bar 1? 

Is the best thing to do, to not offset any negative Bars, have the very first bar in Project window as Bar 1 and then have the very first Downbeat of any Cue starting at Bar 5 (or anything further than that). Then obviously I'll offset timecode and use Time Warp to sync the first frame of Image (or whatever else I need to do) etc.


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## jononotbono (Apr 26, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> It's not an issue of changing bar numbers (which you can simply do in the project settings). The issue is that in order to change the tempo and have the bar before (start - 1) be at the same tempo to have a lead in click




Have you tried Cmd, Shift and E (Insert Silence)? It has to be from Bar 1 onwards (doesn't work with negative bars). I am currently writing a piece of music and I needed to create a Rubato click track. I took the tempo from tapping, everything worked like a Charm but I forgot one small detail. The same error as when you first record a drummer and forget to ask him/her to do a count in (when not to a click). I was pulling my hair out think I would have redo everything. I inserted silence and the count in before the first bar was exactly the same Tempo. Here's a screen shot. Where the locators are is where I inserted silence. The whole click track moved with the tracks (they need to be in Music Mode not Linear) and job done. I now have a 2 bar count in at exactly the same speed as the first downbeat




. If this isn't what you mean then I'm sorry for talking nonsense...


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## brooklynjared (Apr 27, 2017)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Does this video help? This is a good explanation on how to line up video with the timewarp tool.


Thanks for the link, Wolfie! I can see how that would help in some instances. Especially in revision stage, when they change the video timings up on you. But it seems like a clunky way of starting out to me, what with the time warp, weird time signature change, etc.

I ended up landing on this process:

1. chose/guess the tempo I want
2. trim the left edge of the video clip to the first frame where I want the music to start (usually 1st frame of picture/01:00:00:00)
3. place the front edge of trimmed video clip on a downbeat several bars in from beginning of the sequence (slightly more than the length of video that was trimmed off in step 2)
4. in Project Setup, change bar offset such that the downbeat where video begins is now bar 1
5. place cursor on bar 1 and use "set timecode at cursor" to change the timecode so that it matches timecode on the video at bar 1
6. drag out the left edge of the video clip to restore it to it's original length, including any leader, 2-pop, etc.

If the editor changes the start point of your music, you just have to re-trim the video, put it on bar one, and repeat step 5 & 6.

The result is no unnecessary tempo or meter changes and a nice clean start to your sequence. I'm only just starting to use Cubase, so I may encounter a reason why this isn't so great down the road, but for now it's my preferred way of doing it.


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## KerrySmith (May 1, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Just one more reason to love HZ's development of the split DAW approach. The only time for me that this is a problem is when I'm working on a short project with a single cue where I just do it in a single DAW. Anything more than that and I sync to Nuendo (or PT) since it offers so much more flexibility in making changes.



If you don't have the bandwidth to run 2 computers/DAWs, but are willing to spend a little money, I'd recommend using Video Slave Pro. You can run it in the same machine and just sync it using MTC and MMC. When I do a film, I just keep the Video Slave project open, and can set the start timecode for each cue at bar 5 in my DAW to match the TC in VS Pro.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 1, 2017)

KerrySmith said:


> If you don't have the bandwidth to run 2 computers/DAWs, but are willing to spend a little money, I'd recommend using Video Slave Pro. You can run it in the same machine and just sync it using MTC and MMC. When I do a film, I just keep the Video Slave project open, and can set the start timecode for each cue at bar 5 in my DAW to match the TC in VS Pro.



I normally run Cubase + Nuendo on one computer for this and it's never an issue if you know your way around a couple of snags when setting it up.


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## JaikumarS (Jun 25, 2017)

KerrySmith said:


> If you don't have the bandwidth to run 2 computers/DAWs, but are willing to spend a little money, I'd recommend using Video Slave Pro. You can run it in the same machine and just sync it using MTC and MMC. When I do a film, I just keep the Video Slave project open, and can set the start timecode for each cue at bar 5 in my DAW to match the TC in VS Pro.



Hello Kerry,

I'd just downloaded the demo version of Video Slave 3 and imported a video.mp4 with frame rate 25 into Videoslave 3 on my Video machine. My Video machine is synced with Cubase on my Master Computer via (Network MIDI) ethernet and while triggering MTC, and when I pause in cubase 9, the time display in Cubase shows - 01:00:01:089 where as the time display in Video slave is 01:00:01:02, could you please tell me how I can get identical time display on both Cubase and Video Slave 3?

Thank you


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## JaikumarS (Jun 25, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I don't think you understand the OP. It's not an issue of changing bar numbers (which you can simply do in the project settings). The issue is that in order to change the tempo and have the bar before (start - 1) be at the same tempo to have a lead in click, you need to constantly repeat the steps I mentioned in the OP. If you're using a master project DAW then all you need to do is change the timecode in Cubase. If the video is in Cubase then you need to keep moving around the video and offsetting bars.
> 
> Just one more reason to love HZ's development of the split DAW approach. The only time for me that this is a problem is when I'm working on a short project with a single cue where I just do it in a single DAW. Anything more than that and I sync to Nuendo (or PT) since it offers so much more flexibility in making changes.



Hello Gerhard,

I have a question. Is there a feature on Cubase 9 where I can start from the Timecode : 02:00:00:00 leaving empty spaces before, because the film reels here starts as below

Reel_01 - 01:00:00:00
Reel_02 - 02:00:00:00 and so on

in ProTools there is spot mode where I can type the value and the cursor will be placed exactly at that position leaving empty space before.

Thank you


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jun 25, 2017)

JaikumarS said:


> Hello Gerhard,
> 
> I have a question. Is there a feature on Cubase 9 where I can start from the Timecode : 02:00:00:00 leaving empty spaces before, because the film reels here starts as below
> 
> ...



You can use the set timecode at cursor and then change the project start time to however much prelay you want. Does that answer your question? I hope I understood it correctly.


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## JaikumarS (Jun 25, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> You can use the set timecode at cursor and then change the project start time to however much prelay you want. Does that answer your question? I hope I understood it correctly.


Yes, I am aware of the set time code feature. But I want my project to start at 00:00:00:00 and I want to start the score from 01:00:00:00 leaving empty bars before.Could you tell me how much prelay will be required.

Also is there any specific command in Cubase like the spot mode in ProTools to land my cursor exactly at 01:00:00:00?


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## KerrySmith (Jun 25, 2017)

JaikumarS said:


> Hello Kerry,
> 
> I'd just downloaded the demo version of Video Slave 3 and imported a video.mp4 with frame rate 25 into Videoslave 3 on my Video machine. My Video machine is synced with Cubase on my Master Computer via (Network MIDI) ethernet and while triggering MTC, and when I pause in cubase 9, the time display in Cubase shows - 01:00:01:089 where as the time display in Video slave is 01:00:01:02, could you please tell me how I can get identical time display on both Cubase and Video Slave 3?
> 
> Thank you



I haven't encountered anything like that before. Generally, if the frame rate and pull-down are the same in both programs, and if you've connected them as non-lethal instructs, it usually just works. 

What I do see that's possible is that you're trying to use an MP4. This is highly inadvisable, and non-lethal even documents it. (Pro Tools doesn't like it as well). Best to transcode the video to a non-lossy format (like Avid DNxHD) if you're going to be working with video in, or locked to, a DAW.


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## JaikumarS (Jun 26, 2017)

KerrySmith said:


> I haven't encountered anything like that before. Generally, if the frame rate and pull-down are the same in both programs, and if you've connected them as non-lethal instructs, it usually just works.
> 
> What I do see that's possible is that you're trying to use an MP4. This is highly inadvisable, and non-lethal even documents it. (Pro Tools doesn't like it as well). Best to transcode the video to a non-lossy format (like Avid DNxHD) if you're going to be working with video in, or locked to, a DAW.




Thank you for writing back.
I downloaded the Avid DNxHD Codes and converted the mp4 to mov using the MPEG Streamclip. Still getting similar difference in the time display Cubase shows - 01:00:01:089 where as the time display in Video slave is 01:00:01:02. May be I'll have to understand the Cubase timedisplay in a better way.


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## JaikumarS (Jun 26, 2017)

JaikumarS said:


> Thank you for writing back.
> I have the recommended settings as per the non-lethal instructions.
> 
> Downloaded the Avid DNxHD Codes and converted the mp4 to mov using the MPEG Streamclip. Still getting similar difference in the time display Cubase shows - 01:00:01:089 where as the time display in Video slave is 01:00:01:02. May be I'll have to understand the Cubase timedisplay in a better way.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jun 26, 2017)

JaikumarS said:


> Yes, I am aware of the set time code feature. But I want my project to start at 00:00:00:00 and I want to start the score from 01:00:00:00 leaving empty bars before.Could you tell me how much prelay will be required.
> 
> Also is there any specific command in Cubase like the spot mode in ProTools to land my cursor exactly at 01:00:00:00?



I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. You can set the project start time to whatever you want. 

There is that command but I'm not sure what the key command is or what it's called. I only know because a composer I work with has his key commands remapped and I constantly accidentally hit it when I'm on his computer.


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## JaikumarS (Jun 26, 2017)

I had set 25fps in the Cubase Time display and it worked perfectly fine. Now both VideoSlave 3 and Cubase Time displays are perfectly in sync.


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## JaikumarS (Jun 26, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. You can set the project start time to whatever you want.
> 
> There is that command but I'm not sure what the key command is or what it's called. I only know because a composer I work with has his key commands remapped and I constantly accidentally hit it when I'm on his computer.



Ok Thanks.


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## JaikumarS (Sep 4, 2020)

Hello Hans,

Could you please share the spec sheet whenever you find time?

Thank you in advance!
JS


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