# Brand New Albion Demo



## zacnelson (Aug 10, 2011)

Over the last couple of evenings I have knocked this short piece together using Albion. Albion was my first proper sample library purchase, and this is my first attempt at doing sample-based music. I haven't done any mixing on this, it is just the raw sounds with no reverb, eq or compression. The only non-Albion sounds in the orchestration are those instruments which are not part of the spectrum of Albion. For those extra instruments I used the crappy stock sounds that came with Kontakt (snare drum, choir, harp, cymbals). I tried to put those sounds in the background more. 

I know this is just a work in progress, but I think it demonstrates some of the versatility of Albion. These is a LOT of ostinatum use in here, it is a wonderful tool that makes it possible to work very quickly and the midi on the screen looks a lot neater. 

For most of the instruments I have used the Tree mic and the `A' mic (can't remember what that is called). I didn't use the close mics on any of them.

Unfortunately the conversion to mp3 has really decimated the sound, it's rather disappointing, but I wanted the file to be as small as possible.

I'm happy to give you more information if anybody is interested.

http://www.box.net/shared/jrh11tm3ckfj6qbo9h6d


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## R.Cato (Aug 10, 2011)

Man, if I had the money, I would buy it immediately.  

Really enjoyed your track. Heard some little clipping around 2:14, but maybe it's just soundcloud.

If you are disappointed because of the limited sound quality upload it at box.net


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## mech289 (Aug 10, 2011)

This is by far the best demo yet. If this does not make one buy it, I dont know what will. Simply outstanding piece to these ears. Joseph


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## germancomponist (Aug 10, 2011)

Cool idea of advertisting! 

Great piece snippet!


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## zacnelson (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks Joseph, you are very kind. It still needs a lot of work I think it will be a good advertisement for Albion once I have tweaked it and mixed it.

Oh, I don't think it is clipping at 2:14, it's actually the sound of the Easter Island Impacts patch which has a tearing sound that can sound like distortion but is in fact just the sound of the patch. It is one of my favourite patches if it wasn't buried under all the other instruments you would be able to hear how awesome that patch is.


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## zacnelson (Aug 10, 2011)

I have signed up now to box.net and uploaded the same track and I think it sounds a little clearer. Tonight I may attempt to re-mix it a little (my computer was really struggling with all the processing and introduced a couple of glitches, especially in the cellos right near the end where they modulate for a few seconds). I also noticed that the mp3 conversion made the midi mod wheel and volume curves sound less smooth, when I compare it to the wave-format bounce I did of the same mix.

http://www.box.net/shared/jrh11tm3ckfj6qbo9h6d


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## choc0thrax (Aug 10, 2011)

Maybe I don't understand box.net but I don't seem to be able to access the demo.


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## synthetic (Aug 10, 2011)

Link doesn't work for me either.


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## RiffWraith (Aug 10, 2011)

synthetic @ Thu Aug 11 said:


> Link doesn't work for me either.



Nor here.




Box.net said:


> Please log in to access Box
> Use the login form to the right to access your files. Don't have a Box account yet? Sign up for free.


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## zacnelson (Aug 10, 2011)

So sorry for all the confusion. This link should work.

http://www.box.net/shared/jrh11tm3ckfj6qbo9h6d

If not the original Soundcloud link is still working, it is:

http://soundcloud.com/zac-nelson-1/albi ... son-2011-1


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## zacnelson (Aug 10, 2011)

I just tested the new link, it appears to be working, please let me know that it worked for you and then I will be at ease!


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## JT (Aug 10, 2011)

Zac,

Excellent work! Makes me wanna start playing with Albion right now. 

JT


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## mushanga (Aug 10, 2011)

Hey Zac - I really liked this demo! Albion sounds beautiful and caters to the more intimate, delicate dynamics too which other libraries often seem to neglect. Great job - really makes me want to buy it! Am wondering if Symphobia 2 would be a better investment though..shame I don't have the cash to spend on either libraries!

Well done again :D


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## zacnelson (Aug 11, 2011)

Thanks guys, thanks for listening. What I love about Albion is that I never find myself running away from the sounds or trying to hide any of them. I am reasonably happy with this work in progress, but you would be amazed to know just how LITTLE time I spent on it, which is a testament to how Albion just sounds pleasing immediately. It also seems to be very light on the cpu resources.


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## devastat (Aug 11, 2011)

Great work here. Thanks for posting!


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## zacnelson (Aug 11, 2011)

Sorry if I'm being a nuisance, but tonight I got home from work and spent a few hours doing some real repair work and made a heap of major improvements to the track, and have uploaded it again. I urge you to listen to this one instead of the original! I promise I won't make any more changes now!

http://www.box.net/shared/jrh11tm3ckfj6qbo9h6d


http://soundcloud.com/zac-nelson-1/albi ... son-2011-1


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## ricother (Aug 11, 2011)

Simply amazing o-[][]-o 

You even make the "crappy sounds" sound well :shock: 
And Albion in your hands sounds powerful yet precise... I'll have to try!


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## adg21 (Aug 14, 2011)

ricother @ Thu Aug 11 said:


> You even make the "crappy sounds" sound well :shock:



What are the crappy sounds in Albion?


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## dcoscina (Aug 14, 2011)

Um yeah, I'd also like to know what sounds are "crappy".


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## zacnelson (Aug 14, 2011)

hehehehe the comment about crappy sounds was a reference to my initial post, where I mentioned some of the non-Albion sounds that were required by this piece of music:



zacnelson @ Wed Aug 10 said:


> ....The only non-Albion sounds in the orchestration are those instruments which are not part of the spectrum of Albion. For those extra instruments I used the crappy stock sounds that came with Kontakt (snare drum, choir, harp, cymbals). I tried to put those sounds in the background more.



I certainly haven't found any crappy sounds in Albion yet! I may perhaps have difficulty finding a use for the cardboard box or wine glass loops, but as far as cardboard boxes go they sound immaculate!

I think the hi woodwinds are a particular highlight of Albion, I am constantly surprised by how good they sound.


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## Steve Martin (Aug 16, 2011)

Hi to everyone on this thread,

I must say this is a really great sounding composition to me that I enjoyed listening to. The overall emotion and depth in this piece is quite strong and there is a very nice kind of emotional "colour" to this piece that triggers in my imagination, mental pictures of almost grand autumn like scenes, mountains, trees, - a kind of vista image of somewhere outdoors as if you are moving slowly through the area, and up above it also looking down. Yet, there is also a kind of feeling of emotional triumph in the piece in some places also.

I hope to hear some more of your music again!


Thanks for posting this piece and sharing it with us Zac. 

Steve :D


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## zacnelson (Aug 16, 2011)

Thank you so much all of you for taking the time to listen, and for your encouraging comments.


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## Ryan (Aug 16, 2011)

Hi!

Composition wise it's good, but the mastering and metering of the instruments is not OK. It's very muddy, so try to adjust some volume on some instruments. Because right now I find it very hard to tell if it's Albion who have this muddyness (even thou I know Albion sound rocks). So it's all about the mixing issue here. 

EDIT: Listening again. It's like the instruments are fighting against each other

Anyway:
Good job


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## zacnelson (Aug 16, 2011)

Hi Ryan, thanks for your feedback. It would be great if u could identify the time location of where the instruments are fighting each other so I can study my arrangement. It's so great to get feedback on specific areas. In case you're interested I haven't even done any mixing or mastering at all on this track, all you can hear is the basic instruments without eq, compression, reverb, panning or limiting. I get so little time to work on my music with 2 young children (one of them has cancer so I'm in hospital a lot of the time). When I do get a chance at home it's after 10pm until about 2am and therefore I'm forced to use headphones only. I do have reference monitors, so unless I get a rare chance to take off my headphones, I don't bother with mixing because I just don't trust my unreliable headphones. 
Also, I'm curious to know what the general consensus is on panning orchestral samples that are recorded in their correct positions? Do most of you leave the instruments where the library has them positioned or do you pan them creatively?


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## Ryan (Aug 17, 2011)

zacnelson @ 17/8/2011 said:


> Hi Ryan, thanks for your feedback. It would be great if u could identify the time location of where the instruments are fighting each other so I can study my arrangement. It's so great to get feedback on specific areas. In case you're interested I haven't even done any mixing or mastering at all on this track, all you can hear is the basic instruments without eq, compression, reverb, panning or limiting. I get so little time to work on my music with 2 young children (one of them has cancer so I'm in hospital a lot of the time). When I do get a chance at home it's after 10pm until about 2am and therefore I'm forced to use headphones only. I do have reference monitors, so unless I get a rare chance to take off my headphones, I don't bother with mixing because I just don't trust my unreliable headphones.
> Also, I'm curious to know what the general consensus is on panning orchestral samples that are recorded in their correct positions? Do most of you leave the instruments where the library has them positioned or do you pan them creatively?



Hi Zac. 

So, the first big boom is "sort of" clipping in the low ends. It eats up the air and the other instruments. I would try to lower that boom a little bit (also the rest of the big booms).

00:38- 00:49: That's the point where instruments are fighting each other. Maybe it's to many playing the melody. Try lowering the volume on some few instruments there (also the percussion, the big booms are also killing of the air in the mix- then eating up the instruments.). 

00:57- 01:12 : Here we got the same problem as the one before. There is a bit to much going on. So you need to lower some volume on some instruments, or decide which instrument(s) who would play it. It's all about making it clear to the listener. 

01:12- : the harp and woodwind piece is beautiful. 

02:10- Same with the big boom, and the percussion. This is also a point where the instruments don't necessarily need to be in the front of the mix. Here you could lower some instruments (like the woods, they are in a orchestra quite low in their volume) When I listen to the track, it seems like the strings are a tad to high in their volume (to much in the front).

Overall a good composition, but it lacks a bit in the mixing. I don't think you need to the fancy stuff with this library. It's all about distinguishing the instruments from each other, so they don't fight, but flows together. 

I have now listened to it with my sennhaiser HD650 headphones. I could listen to it with my studio monitors later tonight. 

Sorry to hear about your child!! I have two children's (twins) in the age of 4 months, so I also need to work with music when they are a sleep. Hope everything goes good for your child!

As for the pre-recorden orchestral positions, I tend to do a little bit panning, but not to much. Again, this is something everyone does different. 

Best of luck.
Ryan


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## zacnelson (Aug 17, 2011)

Ah Ryan how can I ever thank you?! That's wonderful assistance, I understand completely what I need to work on. I have always considered myself to be more of a songwriter than a mixer/engineer, I guess like a lot of people I use the mixing as a means to an end, it's a little bit of a mystery or a black art! But your tips will definitely help me get a grasp of some key essentials. Just one small question if I may (although you've already been so generous with your time...!) - when you say the big boom takes the `air' out, is this because they trigger the compressor and hence the high frequency stuff gets unnaturally sucked out? I did stick a basic compressor on the mix bus just to avoid clipping (not any attempt at mastering, ie no multiband compression or limiting or anything).


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## zacnelson (Aug 17, 2011)

By the way Ryan I checked out your soundcloud and I noticed how precise your instruments sound in the mix, definitely something I need to learn. For instance, on your cinebrass track Epic Trailer there was a lot of percussion (is that timpani?) and yet I could clearly hear the treble part of the sound ie the sticks or mallets (I don't know what they use) hitting the drums, at the same time the depth of the sound was perceived, without being dominant. Is this from eq-ing out the low mids or is it because the samples are recorded from a distance and therefore they have less boominess? Also did you use Requiem for the choirs on the `28.05' track?

PS 4 month old twins.... that sounds like a headache!


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## Ryan (Aug 17, 2011)

zacnelson @ 17/8/2011 said:


> Ah Ryan how can I ever thank you?! That's wonderful assistance, I understand completely what I need to work on. I have always considered myself to be more of a songwriter than a mixer/engineer, I guess like a lot of people I use the mixing as a means to an end, it's a little bit of a mystery or a black art! But your tips will definitely help me get a grasp of some key essentials. Just one small question if I may (although you've already been so generous with your time...!) - when you say the big boom takes the `air' out, is this because they trigger the compressor and hence the high frequency stuff gets unnaturally sucked out? I did stick a basic compressor on the mix bus just to avoid clipping (not any attempt at mastering, ie no multiband compression or limiting or anything).




Hi Zac. 

your welcome. I just want to help people out. That's what this forum is for, right?
A good songwriter, indeed. You got some good ideas a quick little idea could be to try to make a template that sounds good at the beginning. Try to select 7-8 instruments from all the families, then play on the midi-board. You could then start to lower some instruments in the selected families. Eks: Dbass - cellos, violas, 2. & 1. violins, flute, clarinet, bassoon and maybe a oboe. The you could do the same with some brass. Like that you could easily extinguish the instruments that are killing each other with their high volume (also try to think like a "orchestra"). That's how I work. I also use compressors on each buss (instrument family), and EQ each instruments before that.

That's exactly what happens. It's the compressor that shoots down the volume because of that big boom. Remove everything from your master out. Try to make the mix as clear as possible before the post mixing. That's most important. I was gonna say that you had a compressor on that main master out. So, there you got that little problem. 



zacnelson @ 17/8/2011 said:


> By the way Ryan I checked out your soundcloud and I noticed how precise your instruments sound in the mix, definitely something I need to learn. For instance, on your cinebrass track Epic Trailer there was a lot of percussion (is that timpani?) and yet I could clearly hear the treble part of the sound ie the sticks or mallets (I don't know what they use) hitting the drums, at the same time the depth of the sound was perceived, without being dominant. Is this from eq-ing out the low mids or is it because the samples are recorded from a distance and therefore they have less boominess? Also did you use Requiem for the choirs on the `28.05' track?
> 
> PS 4 month old twins.... that sounds like a headache!



I have wrote a bit on my process on how I mix out my families/instruments. Don't got any timpani in that Cinebrass track. But, there is only SD2 in that mix. In that mix I have cut down the low-ends on the most demanding instruments. Especially the percussion got some massive EQ in the low-ends, and some in the highs. 
I always use the same template, but I never let it be "old", I do always make some new tweaks on some specific instruments to make them better.


> Is this from eq-ing out the low mids or is it because the samples are recorded from a distance and therefore they have less boominess?


I have made them go further back in the mix by lowering the volume, and adding some few extra meters with the reverbs. I could explain it better over a PM. No, the choirs is from Cinesamples also. It's their Voxos.

Hope things got a bit clearer. 

And, yes, It's a bit headache, but more fun also. 

Best
Ryan


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