# Spitfire Chamber Strings



## ModalRealist (Jul 21, 2016)

Didn't want to clutter the commercial thread with my question:

I am hugely tempted by the promo offer on SCS, but am aware that I already have too many string libraries... Could current owners (of SCS, or Sable's collected volumes) possibly comment on how playable they find the library? I've always been terrifically impressed by the demos of the fast legato (e.g. Blaney's "The Magician"), and the unified legato palette _looks_ amazing, but how do people find it for playing lines in? Do you have to do a lot of tweaking?

Also, general Sable/SCS thread, I guess!


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## ryanstrong (Jul 21, 2016)

I own Sable. It is the best combination of form and function. It sounds great and works great. It is a desert island sample library for me.

LASS has been the best functional string library however it's sound is far too brittle. Spitfire's legato is really good, not AS good as LASS BUT combined with the sound that Spitfire excels in, that sweet but still detailed sound, it makes Sable/SCS the gold standard in a string library.

Any serious composer should own Sable/SCS.


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## nas (Jul 21, 2016)

I'm also getting ready to pull the trigger on this library. The scripting is very much improved and more refined. The instruments are more playable and intuitive ( I hope they do the same with the Mural library).

Just check out the improved legato scripting in Paul's walkthrough at 17:50 

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-chamber-strings/

Very Nice!


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## Baron Greuner (Jul 21, 2016)

Spitfire Chamber Strings (neé Sable) is not just any string library (he says from the safety of a French pension).

Desert island library is a good description. This is a detailed audio set; not thick sounding. For big sounding strings then VSL, Mural, CS2 ect ect. Very few string libraries can get small sounding and detailed. A lot of TV work does not required big, massive sounding orchestral productions, good that they are. A lot of the time it is detailed, smaller sounding work that allows for dialogue and atmosphere and this library does all of that and more. It's very good. I would add that the last 60 to 100 tv detections I've had over the last few months have all been tracks involving Sable. Every one and that fosters a great deal of fondness for this sound from my pov.

Oh cheers Mickey  Haha!


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## tack (Jul 21, 2016)

IMO, Sable is playable for any reasonable definition of "playable" in the context of a virtual instrument.

In the case of legato, if you're laying down a realtime performance where responsiveness is important, you can dial the speed slider all the way up and play it in. But to really coax the expressiveness out of Sable, you'll want to tweak the speed slider afterward and adjust note offsets accordingly. Expect to tweak your legato lines, because there is a direct conflict between responsiveness and those syrupy legato transitions that are oozing with character. It can't be another other way, at least until Intel comes out with a new CPU with a new time dilation instruction set to predict user actions before they occur.

Shorts are playable in the sense that they are responsive and sound good. Great even.

But sometimes there is a dodgy round-robin that you want to tweak out, or a pitchy legato transition that you can't live with.

So generally, it's playable in the sense that you can lay down a workable performance and it'll sound pretty good as-is, but you should expect the story doesn't end there, and a healthy dose of MIDI editing will be warranted to get the best sound. Isn't that the way with every VI?

But with that investment, the sound you get from it really is wonderful, in my opinion. And I think that's as much as we can expect from any VI -- at least minus any amount of dodgy samples. (Hopefully SCS has improved upon Sable in this regard.)


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## mgpqa1 (Jul 21, 2016)

How does this compare to VSL Chamber Strings? I already own the first two volumes of Sable so this would definitley be cheaper for me... but I recently started poking around with VSL and was just curious before I commit. Also, was planning to use close mics with my preferred reverb instead.


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## ModalRealist (Jul 21, 2016)

This sounds all very promising. And yes, to clarify "playable", I obviously don't expect it to read my mind, but was wondering more about whether the various legato transitions on the "Performance Palette" slot in with as good a sound as they seem to in Paul's walkthrough. I'm thinking especially here of the Fast and Runs transitions, because as of yet I've not been able to coax a library to give what I want in that respect - there's always this artificial sounding "buzz", for lack of a better word - but the Sable demos and walkthroughs specifically don't have that. So, in actual practice, do those fast transitions work out of the box or is there a lot of tweaking to really make them work?


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## Hat_Tricky (Jul 21, 2016)

Wow, sounds absolutely incredible. The detail is just something else. I might have to bite the bullet and get all the following (only strings I have atm is Albion 1 legacy and Albion ONE)

Spitfire Chamber Strings
Cinematic Studio Strings
Albion Logeria (pretty sure redundant if I also get SCS, but I want the Euphs, Recorders, and Sackbuts so bad...)

I WAS going to go with LASS and Logeria, or possibly Sable and Cinematic Studio Strings+Cinematic Strings 2

Really not sure what to do, but I do want flexibility and both a large sweeping symphonic sound as well as a very intimate chamber sound.


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## jamwerks (Jul 21, 2016)

mgpqa1 said:


> How does this compare to VSL Chamber Strings? I already own the first two volumes of Sable so this would definitley be cheaper for me... but I recently started poking around with VSL and was just curious before I commit. Also, was planning to use close mics with my preferred reverb instead.


Vol< III & IV are the most interesting...


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## samphony (Jul 21, 2016)

I've bought a lot from spitfire. Sable was and still is my go to string library. It's so agile and versatile. It even does disco string writing brilliantly!

Also Albion 1-3 are my favorite for all the steamband patches.


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## Neifion (Jul 21, 2016)

You can not go wrong with Sable/SCS. Like a lot of people have said here, it is a great sounding and comprehensive string library with a unique detail. It's my go-to library for strings.

Also, you can skip round robins that you don't like using the punch cog.


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## tack (Jul 21, 2016)

Since I doubt I will ever get around to finishing it, I figured I'd share here the first two minutes of Appalachian Spring I mocked up. IMO, as much as anything positive could be said about this mockup, it's entirely because of Sable.


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## Lee Blaske (Jul 21, 2016)

I have the full Sable Library (haven't downloaded the update, yet, but certainly will), and I have all of the VSL stuff including Dimension Strings. I really love all of them. They do sound different. VSL Dimension is great, especially if you have the time to lavish on playing each line separately. Sable gets great results faster. I do take my hat off to Spitfire for this massive overhaul of an already great problem. Only downside is that I'll need to keep all my old Sable libraries on my SSDs, so they can be accessed if I need to call up old projects. I'm sure that SSD manufacturers enjoy this.


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## NoamL (Jul 21, 2016)

is there a summary of the differences between Sable and SCS? Is this just a rechristening?


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## jsp21 (Jul 21, 2016)

NoamL said:


> is there a summary of the differences between Sable and SCS? Is this just a rechristening?



From the SCS thread, I gathered it was just a repackaging of the same samples with a tighter patch organization and a newer UI.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jul 21, 2016)

NoamL said:


> is there a summary of the differences between Sable and SCS? Is this just a rechristening?


addition: if you take a look at the new walkthrough from Paul I believe they added a new' performance' patch which combines several legatos into one patch.
If I had the bucks right now I would purchase it.
Allthoug I experience some bugs in Sable Ensemble the sound is outstanding. And regarding articulations SCS seems very comprehensive.


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## Saxer (Jul 21, 2016)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> addition: if you take a look at the new walkthrough from Paul I believe they added a new' performance' patch which combines several legatos into one patch.


It's the former Legato performance patch and was found in the Combinations folder. I really hope they improved it so it uses less CPU now.


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## jaminjamesp (Jul 22, 2016)

nas said:


> I'm also getting ready to pull the trigger on this library. The scripting is very much improved and more refined. The instruments are more playable and intuitive ( I hope they do the same with the Mural library).
> 
> Just check out the improved legato scripting in Paul's walkthrough at 17:50
> 
> ...




Have you heard from them, or seen on their website the scripting is new? I'm super curious about that. Love the sound of Spitfire. Haven't loved some of the "eccentricities" of their scripting.


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## nas (Jul 22, 2016)

jaminjamesp said:


> Have you heard from them, or seen on their website the scripting is new? I'm super curious about that. Love the sound of Spitfire. Haven't loved some of the "eccentricities" of their scripting.



If you watch the play-through Paul mention's that they've refined some of the scripting. So I'm not sure if it's a complete rewrite, but it is improved and more playable on some patches.


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## synergy543 (Jul 22, 2016)

tack said:


> Since I doubt I will ever get around to finishing it, I figured I'd share here the first two minutes of Appalachian Spring I mocked up. IMO, as much as anything positive could be said about this mockup, it's entirely because of Sable.


Sounds nice Tack, you should continue. I've always wanted to mock that one up. I'll bet you learned a lot just doing that much.


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## procreative (Jul 22, 2016)

I have watched the video again. I cannot discern anything "improved" about the scripting. Nothing is said on this subject in the video. The organisation of the legato patch looks no different to the Combo Keyswitch patches in Sable.

Even the GUI is not radically different to Sable apart from the name change and some graphic symbols.

While it is/was a great product and now a bargain for new purchasers, just be sure you fully understand what you are upgrading to. 

From answers I have received on the other thread, I do not believe there to be any major changes other than:

1. K5 Player
2. NKS Support
3. Rationalisation of patches
4. Less Mic Positions/Mixes in Standard upgrade

I am not sore about not getting the upgrade for free, but I do feel the relaunch is a bit smoke and mirrors. Its not like ONE where there were new recordings and scripting. This does feel like a relaunch dressed as a fresh product and unlike Percussion Redux (which was free upgrade) does not really add anything new.

And buying it on the chance there "might" be future extra content is a risky basis to decide to purchase IMO.


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## zeng (Jul 22, 2016)

So does SCS include all libraries of Sable 1-2-3?


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## mickeyl (Jul 22, 2016)

(As indicated on their homepage and numerous other threads), SCS is Sable 1-4 + Ensembles with CTA-Mics. An expansion pack (which has to be purchased separately unless you have all of Sable already) scheduled for later this year will bring the O and stereo mixes.


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## zeng (Jul 22, 2016)

Then I should buy Sable now! 



mickeyl said:


> (As indicated on their homepage and numerous other threads), SCS is Sable 1-4 + Ensembles with CTA-Mics. An expansion pack (which has to be purchased separately unless you have all of Sable already) scheduled for later this year will bring the O and stereo mixes.


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## FriFlo (Jul 22, 2016)

SCS is a good string library, no doubt about that. It contains all 4 volumes of Sable plus the ensemble patches with three mic positions. The add on contains the other mic positions, only. As for playability: with fast legato passages it is almost impossible to be completely playable, because when playing fast scales, a pianist will hardly manage to perfectly connect each note exactly. Therefore, some editing is needed in most cases. But that goes for pretty much every library out there.
As stated in an earlier thread, I am not happy with the update policy towards early bird adopters. I don't want ensembles, but I would have to pay almost 200 for getting continued support and software updates. To me, it looks like spitfire has come to the point, where they will sell you small BML volumes and when they think the whole range is pretty much covered, they will combine several of those and let you pay more on top, even if your initial costs might have been considerably higher than the price offered then. To me, that means, I will probably wait a long time and observe until ordering anything from SF. I expect the same thing to happen soon with Mural and after some more volumes being released, with brass and woodwinds as well.
It is actually not such a bad idea to unite all those volumes to bigger patches. But from a price/values perspective, I will hold back from buying anything. But if you haven't bought Sable, buying SCS now seems like a good choice, especially, if you are fine with three mic positions.


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## zeng (Jul 22, 2016)

Buying all previous Sable libraries (1+2+3+4+Ensemble) was more expensive than buying SCS for £412 in total?


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 22, 2016)

Thanks for your feedback procreative. Points 1-3 are correct as clearly adverstised 4. I would phrase as "extra mics now optional" based on feedback from customers preferring articulation options to mic positions. It also means that people (both existing and new users) who don't want a library three times the size have the choice without having to hack out the sample content they don't want / need.

For me there are some extra points.

5. Many under-the-hood improvements and tweaks (held back because of the absolute nightmare people have had upgrading the multi volume / multi mic previous incarnation).

6. Rationalisation of a 4 year old library to future proof and enable continued development of our favourite library. As mentioned ad nauseum this first BML outing taught us lots of lessons and the leading problem for us was a growing unwillingness to upgrade a library that had become incredibly difficult for everyone to manage and maintain... 25% of our annual support tickets are regarding the artists formerly known as Sable.

Buying into what is quite clearly our and many other's favourite library that we have rationalised with the very purpose of continuing development (much of which is happening as we speak) is in my humble opinion _not_ a risky strategy.

Procreative please point me to where you feel there are smoke and mirrors. We're a bunch of composers trying to help composers and not dupe them... So this I wish to rectify asap.

Hyped, yes, by not charging people for fundamental and architectural upgrades, including the very real arms length costs of pivoting over to KPlayer means that we have to stimulate fresh sales.

We also like making pretty new packaging now that we have a qualified design team (formerly yours truly, very not qualified!).

Best.

C.


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 22, 2016)

Thanks FriFlo for your feedback. We've tried to make this as fair as possible for everyone. We totally see ensembles as part of the Sable experience which is reflected by Paul using this solely for the first half of his 20 minute walkthrough (I think ha ha!). Ensembles in my humble opinion are a finely crafted fundamental part of the library. Same recordings as the sections yes, same samples no. We approached this as an entirely new library that is finely mapped by our prod team and Jake Jackson. We hope to convert some ensembles nay sayers but I completely understand that these aren't used by people who may work differently to myself Paul and the other in-house Spitfire composers. But it is very difficult to satisfy everyone I'm afraid. I just hope you give them a go and like them.

All the best,

C.


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## procreative (Jul 22, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> Thanks for your feedback procreative. Points 1-3 are correct as clearly adverstised 4. I would phrase as "extra mics now optional" based on feedback from customers preferring articulation options to mic positions. It also means that people (both existing and new users) who don't want a library three times the size have the choice without having to hack out the sample content they don't want / need.
> 
> For me there are some extra points.
> 
> ...



Hello Christian,

I believe its slightly smoke and mirrors in terms of the relaunch. For new buyers or those with limited volumes I believe it is a unique way in and I agree the streamlining of Mic positions is no bad thing to lower entry costs.

I just wanted to make sure those upgrading are not assuming what they are buying into.

I am not dismissing GUI tweaks or file rationalisation, however in the past these kind of things were considered a Redux and were free (probably with the side effect of creating new sales - I know this pushed me into getting Percussion).

However I still maintain (from what I can see in the blurb and videos) that the enhancements for an upgrader who is not getting it free - which includes me :( are not enough to justify even the lowest cost entry of £68 plus VAT to add mainly Player functionality.

Now were there pre-announced future roadmaps of content additions ala Bohemian Violin, it might make it more compelling.

I do not doubt you and Paul's passion or sincerity in creating great products and I do get its a business and cashflow and working capital are needed to continue to develop products. Obviously you do not want to deflate sales, however I think there are still some misonceptions about what exactly the upgrade offers given some of the posts here.

Thats what I mean by smoke and mirrors in that its not what is said rather what is not said gives the impression of new scripting and the hint of possible new content.

However none of this detracts from the product itself. Sable/CS is still a great product and the relaunch is great news for new buyers.


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## procreative (Jul 22, 2016)

I might add I felt a bit the same way over ONE, but I relented and caved in as the revised content was enough of a carrot.


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## samphony (Jul 22, 2016)

Saxer said:


> It's the former Legato performance patch and was found in the Combinations folder. I really hope they improved it so it uses less CPU now.



I hope so too! Please report as soon as you know!


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## tack (Jul 22, 2016)

synergy543 said:


> Sounds nice Tack, you should continue. I've always wanted to mock that one up. I'll bet you learned a lot just doing that much.


For sure. It's the challenge of chamber music. With big orchestral stuff you can often solve problems with layering other libraries in. But in something like Appalachian Spring, all the instruments are so exposed, and often in solo contexts (winds particularly), so the objective must be to coax every last bit of life possible out of a single library, or use an entirely different library, because layering often isn't an option.

A while back I also mocked up the first couple bars of the forte Allegro part about 3 minutes in. Sable's shorts did quite nicely there too. (I can't find where I put it though.)


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## mickeyl (Jul 22, 2016)

I feel the need to state that I'm glad how "civilized" this thread goes. It's great having Spitfire Audio commenting here with posts that do not _directly_ have to do with marketing the products. Lets keep it that way, folks!


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## tack (Jul 22, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> 5. Many under-the-hood improvements and tweaks (held back because of the absolute nightmare people have had upgrading the multi volume / multi mic previous incarnation).


Christian, are you able to expand on this point a bit? I'm curious about what kinds of things have been tweaked. I had planned to wait for the outrigger expansion, but it might motivate me to replace Sable in my template with SCS sooner.


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 22, 2016)

Hi tack, as users of Chamber strings (formerly Sable) we make tweaks as we go to sharpen and tighten up the library. Little half percents here over time can really improve a library so this is our latest version of the library. Its like tuning an engine, little turns here, little snips, little squeezes... I am told that there are a number of changes that are really boring to list here so I wont distract from the headline points.

We're working on some major feature upgrades but I have been warned against publishing them in an official sense until we have a real fix on when we're happy to let these out. I'm hoping to get an answer before the promo ends. The one thing I'm happy about is the minute we're good to go we'll go, with everyone having the same SCS architecture the QA won't have to be as cumbersome.

I also think you'll all see the immediate advantages of rationalisation, that being that we can use elements from would have been in say Sable 3 and Sable 1 confident that everyone who owns SCS has access to those assets.

This again is reason why I don't think we need to attach a warning of "but be warned we may never issue updates to this library" because by rationalising it we clearly add in potential which we didn't have before.


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## zeng (Jul 22, 2016)

Buying all previous Sable libraries (1+2+3+4+Ensemble) was more expensive than buying SCS for £412 in total? I don't remember the price of each Sable libraries but sum of them were more expensive I think?


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 22, 2016)

Sable 1 - £399
Sable 2 - £399
Sable 3 - £229
Sable 4 - £149
Sable Ensembles - £249
Total = £1425

Saving - £1,013 off RRP.


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## chemie262 (Jul 22, 2016)

I paid 697 GBP for the Sable bundle early 2013


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 22, 2016)

That was for 1 & 2 I believe? Early adopters deal, very popular.


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## neblix (Jul 22, 2016)

I'm not sure if this is the right place, but here goes.

I got SCS yesterday, and I love it, it's fantastic. My big glaring issue with it, though, is the Cello legato script sounds lacking, somewhat. I can hear the legato transition samples popping in, in a non-smooth fashion. I don't hear this issue in the Violins and Violas. Is there a way I can report this to Spitfire so it can get tuned up?



Yes, it's very subtle, and sounds great without paying a lot of attention, but I noticed it's just disproportionately lacking with the cello compared to the other sections. It sounds like perhaps, the origin note is fading out too quickly before the transition, so it's not blending well.

It doesn't affect my music-making too much, I just think personally (as a fellow developer) there could be a little more tweaking done to get it sounding silky smooth, is all. 

That being said, I love love love it. Best string library I've used, tied with CSS. Both very different purposes, but I'll probably use SCS for my music more frequently, as the aesthetic appeals to me more personally.

Here's something I began working on:


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## 5Lives (Jul 22, 2016)

Very convenient having the library in the libraries tab of Kontakt. Also, Ensembles are awesome. Such a nice sound for sketching (and leaving in).

Still get CPU problems (severe) when using the Legato Performance patch. I think hosting in VEP (even on the same machine) addresses this (hopefully - used to with Sable at least).


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## lucky909091 (Jul 22, 2016)

In this thread Spitfire (Christian) says: "SCS is the library formerly called Sable" ... with some improvements under the hood. 

So I would like to know: 
can I delete my Sable library and makle a fresh start with SCS as I assume that the same samples were used in SCS?


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## Rob Elliott (Jul 22, 2016)

If you used Sable a lot on past projects I would leave it on your puter or every time you open an old project you'll be spending time redirecting/loading/possibly re-programming, etc....


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## procreative (Jul 22, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> We're working on some major feature upgrades but I have been warned against publishing them in an official sense until we have a real fix on when we're happy to let these out. I'm hoping to get an answer before the promo ends. The one thing I'm happy about is the minute we're good to go we'll go, with everyone having the same SCS architecture the QA won't have to be as cumbersome.



Hello Christian, I really hope these potential 'major feature upgrades' can be at least announced before the end of the promo period as I know, at least from my perspective, it may change my mind on upgrading.


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## kevinlee87 (Jul 22, 2016)

5Lives said:


> Still get CPU problems (severe) when using the Legato Performance patch.


Very disappointed...


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## jacobthestupendous (Jul 22, 2016)

5Lives said:


> Still get CPU problems (severe) when using the Legato Performance patch.


What kind of system are you using?


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## 5Lives (Jul 22, 2016)

jacobthestupendous said:


> What kind of system are you using?



A maxed out mid-2014 MacBook Pro. Like I said, doesn't happen when hosting in VEP (only when directly hosting in Logic and Cubase).


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## jaminjamesp (Jul 22, 2016)

neblix said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right place, but here goes.
> 
> I got SCS yesterday, and I love it, it's fantastic. My big glaring issue with it, though, is the Cello legato script sounds lacking, somewhat. I can hear the legato transition samples popping in, in a non-smooth fashion. I don't hear this issue in the Violins and Violas. Is there a way I can report this to Spitfire so it can get tuned up?
> 
> ...




These are the small things that I've experienced with other string libraries from Spitfire. Nothing compares to their sound, but I have CSS as well and its just smoother to operate and edit. For some the cello sound might not bother them, or they might not even notice. For me, it would drive me crazy.


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## anderslink (Jul 22, 2016)

It's pretty much insane that this is 1/3 the price provided you only need the CTA Mics. I can't wait to hear someone complain about it lol. This is an absurdly good deal and it's annoying. I wish I had not bought sable. I really do because I don't *need* the alt mics nor do I think they are worth $1000. Pretty annoyed but obviously it makes NO sense to not get this upgrade.


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## Vik (Jul 22, 2016)

Price drops happen a lot in the digital world, so we better get used to it.


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 22, 2016)

procreative said:


> Hello Christian, I really hope these potential 'major feature upgrades' can be at least announced before the end of the promo period as I know, at least from my perspective, it may change my mind on upgrading.



I'm pushing the team so we can try and announce this before promo ends as suggested.

Re. Spikes these are something I've never had with Sable (though I have to admit I have a behemoth of a mac pro), we'd like to know of your system specs etc etc. Please contact service support or PM here. To me using VEP suggests it is a DAW core issue. Logic for example uses only one core when you're in record. My solution to this would be to use one mic only to record, then activate other mics to playback / mix.

Best.

C.


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## anderslink (Jul 22, 2016)

Vik said:


> Price drops happen a lot in the digital world, so we better get used to it.


YUP! damn.


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## mc_deli (Jul 22, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> Logic for example uses only one core when you're in record.


New multi core handling pref since 10.2.1 though

Please get those edu codes out the door - I am champing at the bit here!


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## Whatisvalis (Jul 22, 2016)

I have all Sable vols except ensembles. I've not looked at the upgrade price yet, but will the expansion be free if I do update?


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## 5Lives (Jul 22, 2016)

Whatisvalis said:


> I have all Sable vols except ensembles. I've not looked at the upgrade price yet, but will the expansion be free if I do update?



Not anymore. It would've been if you had got ensembles during the Sable close out sale. Still, you'll get a pretty big discount.


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## Whatisvalis (Jul 22, 2016)

I meant the expansion for chamber strings. I understand I missed the buy ensembles get the CS full free offer, which is frustrating.


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## 5Lives (Jul 22, 2016)

You won't get the expansion free.


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## mgpqa1 (Jul 22, 2016)

Just installed and noticed the library keeps disappearing from the library tab every time I restart Kontakt, forcing me to re-add the library each time. This happens in the standalone version of Kontakt as well as the plugin version in my DAW (Cubase Pro 8.5.20). I'm running the latest version of Kontakt (5.5.2.880) and I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling then rebooting but the issue persists. I'm on Windows 10 64-bit. Anyone else?


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 22, 2016)

Hi mgpqa1 I have heard of this issue with another lib with a particular set up and know there is an easy fix, can you please raise a support ticket with our service department I will also make a note and ask them myself and post back the fix here first thing Monday.

mcdeli our edu codes have to be processed manually and usually take 24-48 hours during the working week. The team will be back first thing Monday.


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## mgpqa1 (Jul 22, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> Hi mgpqa1 I have heard of this issue with another lib with a particular set up and know there is an easy fix, can you please raise a support ticket with our service department I will also make a note and ask them myself and post back the fix here first thing Monday.
> 
> mcdeli our edu codes have to be processed manually and usually take 24-48 hours during the working week. The team will be back first thing Monday.


Will do, thanks!


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## vicontrolu (Jul 23, 2016)

waiting for the improvement/refinements detailed list before upgrading too


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## mickeyl (Jul 23, 2016)

Is it me or is there a glitch with the bowed legato in the Celli – Legato Performance patch? There don't seem to be any samples assigned when I manually select the articulation (keyrange empty) and although I hit the velocity window the articulation is not being triggered.


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## Spitfire Team (Jul 23, 2016)

mgpqa1 said:


> Just installed and noticed the library keeps disappearing from the library tab every time I restart Kontakt, forcing me to re-add the library each time. This happens in the standalone version of Kontakt as well as the plugin version in my DAW (Cubase Pro 8.5.20). I'm running the latest version of Kontakt (5.5.2.880) and I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling then rebooting but the issue persists. I'm on Windows 10 64-bit. Anyone else?



Heya mgpqa1 - This may be of help:

https://www.native-instruments.com/...ries-keeps-disappearing-from-the-library-tab/


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jul 23, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> Heya mgpqa1 - This may be of help:
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/...ries-keeps-disappearing-from-the-library-tab/


I have that with my Albion One library, but this routing doesn't seem to work, as the specific file is not present in that location.( I am on a Mac)
Do you guys have other options?


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## scoringdreams (Jul 23, 2016)

I am anxiously waiting for the rebranding for Symphonic Strings (Mural), Symphonic Brass or Winds maybe?


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## mgpqa1 (Jul 23, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> Heya mgpqa1 - This may be of help:
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/...ries-keeps-disappearing-from-the-library-tab/


That worked! Thank you!


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## Vik (Jul 23, 2016)

scoringdreams said:


> I am anxiously waiting for the rebranding for Symphonic Strings (Mural)....


Updating and rebranding Mural would be great.


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## Baron Greuner (Jul 24, 2016)

My version disappears every time too and I've sent in a request to Spitfire support. I don't actually have the XML file to delete, so I suspect I will need an XML file. same thing happened with Heavyocity GP03 Guitars and they sent me an XML file which cured the problem immediately. Apparently this is caused by a Kontakt bug.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Jul 24, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> My version disappears every time too and I've sent in a request to Spitfire support. I don't actually have the XML file to delete, so I suspect I will need an XML file. same thing happened with Heavyocity GP03 Guitars and they sent me an XML file which cured the problem immediately. Apparently this is caused by a Kontakt bug.


That might be the culprit possibly.
Thank you Baron!
I will send in a request too to SA.


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## Baron Greuner (Jul 24, 2016)

Yes definitely do that. It's just a case of a missing XML file. I'm pretty sure of it.


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## Neifion (Jul 24, 2016)

Gleefully played around with SCS after downloading the other night and mocked up a couple of cues from The Lion King:


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## meradium (Jul 25, 2016)

I finally also decided to jump on the Spitfire Chamber Strings offer. Download finished just a few hours ago.

Initial impression is very good. Those special articulations are really a great new addition to my palette.

However, is it just me or are Spitfire libraries very (!) quiet in general. Compared to my so-far workhorse Cinestrings I have to crank the volume up like crazy... Sure, it's a smaller section but that can't be the whole reason... It's this by design?

BTW, layering the two seems to work great in case someone was wondering.

Though I really love the more intimate sound of the smaller section, I can already see that I will miss the sound of a larger one.

I really hope we will see a similar repackaging of Mural  While I did not yet have a chance to play a lot with my new addition, given that there are no major pains coming up down the line I would certainly consider buying into that as well... Just please take your time so I can build up some additional cash


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## Baron Greuner (Jul 25, 2016)

Yes the XML file was sent today and it all works now as expected.

Yes Spitfire libraries are very quiet. Might be something to do with them being recorded to tape. Not sure. Just pull the Kontakt volume up to plus 6 db or something that's comfortable. That's what I do.


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## zeng (Jul 25, 2016)

meradium said:


> I finally also decided to jump on the Spitfire Chamber Strings offer. Download finished just a few hours ago.
> 
> Initial impression is very good. Those special articulations are really a great new addition to my palette.
> 
> ...



Hello meradium,

What do you mean here? "BTW, layering the two seems to work great in case someone was wondering."


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## tack (Jul 25, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> Yes Spitfire libraries are very quiet.


Or is it just that everything else is too loud?

Out of the box, hammering a fortissimo spiccato on Sable's cello patch reads in the vicinity of -18 dBFS. Ok, I don't have a lot of experience in this area, but that seems pretty reasonable to me for a small cello section and tree mics.

I pulled up Mike Verta's stems from The Race and opened the "Cellos close" stem. There's quite a lot of bleed of course, but one part where the celli are relatively soloed, they're playing a couple marcato notes at forte and it reads -23 dBFS.

I don't really have any complaints about Sable's out-of-the-box volume. I do notice that some libraries are obnoxiously loud, however.


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## Saxer (Jul 25, 2016)

The BML series is rather well balanced. So if you have the brass and everything else at 0dB you'll probably get a good orchestra mix which doesn't clip even in loud tutti passages. I didn't try it myself as I don't have the complete BML series, but I think at least that's the idea.


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## Vik (Jul 25, 2016)

Zeng, I guess he means combining Cinestrings and SCS. And, talking of combining: for Spitfire newbies, there are some good examples of combining two Sable presets on YouTube, and I'm sure the same can be done with SCS:


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## tack (Jul 25, 2016)

Interesting to see the UI from those original Sable patches, and how Spitfire gradually de-greenified Sable over the years. 

(I rather like the green.)


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## zeng (Jul 26, 2016)

Vik said:


> Zeng, I guess he means combining Cinestrings and SCS. And, talking of combining: for Spitfire newbies, there are some good examples of combining two Sable presets on YouTube, and I'm sure the same can be done with SCS:




Thanks Vik. How does it sound when you double for ex 1st Violins from the same library SCS? As usual we take doubles from the same players in live recording sessions, but of course they play the same notes differently. How can we achieve that on sample libraries like SCS? Can I layer SCS violins without mecahnical sound?


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## Scamper (Jul 26, 2016)

tack said:


> Interesting to see the UI from those original Sable patches, and how Spitfire gradually de-greenified Sable over the years.
> 
> (I rather like the green.)



Right, I really miss those beautiful colored backgrounds from the Sable series in SCS, which even makes me prefer Sable, wouldn't it be for additional SCS features.


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## jacobthestupendous (Jul 26, 2016)

zeng said:


> How does it sound when you double for ex 1st Violins from the same library SCS?


I don't have SCS, so I can't speak to this exact question, but I have tried this with other libraries with mixed results, and I think it mostly has to do with round robins. As long as you are definitely triggering different samples with track, then you are effectively doubling the recording, as you would with live players double-tracking. If you trigger the exact same samples with both tracks, you run the risk of either crazy phase problems or just making the exact same line louder. Depending on what you're after, you would be better off layering with a different library (CS2 or HWS) or layering with different sections from SCS where possible (for instance, using both violin sections to play the first violin line, and using both to play the second violin line--so long as the first violin and second violin lines are not the same). Alternatively you can layer similar long articulations to add fullness and sweetness (first violin normal legato with flautando).


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## Vik (Jul 26, 2016)

zeng said:


> Thanks Vik. How does it sound when you double for ex 1st Violins from the same library SCS? As usual we take doubles from the same players in live recording sessions, but of course they play the same notes differently. How can we achieve that on sample libraries like SCS? Can I layer SCS violins without mecahnical sound?


 Since I use Mural, I haven't tried to double V1a with V1s, but that should be doable - at least if one is fiddling around with some track delay on one of the tracks or copies the region and randomise the timing a little bit. Maybe even the round robin randomness will take care of it.
Btw, Mural has some parameters which I don't think SCS (or Sable) has (see below) – and plays back a larger amount players without using more capacity.
Having said that, I wish some fixes and other good news is coming for Mural users soon too (and that Mural users who need Sable for divisi get an extra quantity discount).


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## prodigalson (Jul 26, 2016)

or use the transposition trick. load up two violin 1 patches in separate instances of kontakt and where it says transpose, bring one patch down 3 semitones so it plays different samples then the adjust the 'tune' within kontakt up 3 semitones. Now you have both patches playing different samples but with one tuned to play unison with the other. In SCS, you now have 8 violins instead of 4.


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## Kejero (Jul 26, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> or use the transposition trick. load up two violin 1 patches in separate instances of kontakt and where it says transpose, bring one patch down 3 semitones so it plays different samples then the adjust the 'tune' within kontakt up 3 semitones. Now you have both patches playing different samples but with one tuned to play unison with the other. In SCS, you now have 8 violins instead of 4.


That's what I was gonna suggest, but why 3 semitones? I'm assuming SCS has a seperate sample for every individual note, so you could just transpose a half step, right? Less steps makes for better down/up-tuning afterall.


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## ModalRealist (Jul 26, 2016)

Spitfire sample by tone, not semitone. Orchestral Tools are the same. VSL SEs are by tone, the 'grown up' versions are chromatic. Don't know about Cinesamples, ProjectSAM, etc.


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## prodigalson (Jul 26, 2016)

Kejero said:


> That's what I was gonna suggest, but why 3 semitones? I'm assuming SCS has a seperate sample for every individual note, so you could just transpose a half step, right? Less steps makes for better down/up-tuning afterall.



I've just been doing 3 by default whenever I ever I use it (not that often) just cos I'm never sure how my different libraries are sampled.


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## Kejero (Jul 26, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> I've just been doing 3 by default whenever I ever I use it (not that often) just cos I'm never sure how my different libraries are sampled.


You should be able to see this if you go under the hood in Kontakt (in the mapping editor).


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## Kejero (Jul 26, 2016)

Also, I just came across this... I'm assuming the same is still possible in SCS


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## jacobthestupendous (Jul 29, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> We're working on some major feature upgrades but I have been warned against publishing them in an official sense until we have a real fix on when we're happy to let these out. I'm hoping to get an answer before the promo ends.


Eagerly hoping that you have some info for us this weekend...


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## procreative (Jul 30, 2016)

+1


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## tack (Aug 1, 2016)

I was playing with the ensemble patch, which has a sustain pedal/release sample issue fixed for me (from Sable) and makes it much more usable. I thought I'd capture a quick live test comparing SCS with CSS ensemble patches. (Chord progression is from the Oblivion soundtrack.) The libraries have a different character and both are just so beautiful.


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## AllanH (Aug 1, 2016)

tack - thank you for the comparison. Each beautiful in its own way.


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## NoamL (Aug 1, 2016)

I like the detail of SCS more for this particular passage... but CSS only suffers in the act of comparison, they're both superb by themselves.


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## tack (Aug 1, 2016)

I keep waffling. I hear elements unique to each that are sublime. It just underlines the benefit of having multiple tools in one's toolbelt.

One thing I like about CSS is that it supports rebowing even within the ensembles patch. You may have noticed this in that I play CSS differently because of this. In contrast, SCS layers up the repeated note -- including the release samples -- which causes unnaturally loud moment when I release the sustain pedal. So I avoided any repeating notes with SCS.


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## zeng (Aug 1, 2016)

2 questions to SCS owners;

1) When I play a legato note higher than an octave, I hear two notes playing, is that normal??

For ex I load SCS 1st Violin Legato patch, I play C3 and while pressing C3 I press D4, it plays 2 notes (first C3, than fast shift to D4). This is happening for all notes to notes above octave??

2) Second legato note is a little bit quieter than the first note. Did Spitfire change legato algorithm of Sable? I think Sable's legato was more louder and creamy?


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## milesito (Aug 2, 2016)

Does anyone know how to find out what the default CC (control channels) are for the 3 microphone positions for SCS?

Thanks!


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## procreative (Aug 2, 2016)

milesito said:


> Does anyone know how to find out what the default CC (control channels) are for the 3 microphone positions for SCS?
> 
> Thanks!



I think if there are any you can find out what they are by opening a patch and clicking on the Midi Automation tab (to the right of the Libraries tab in the top left). This should list whats in there.


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## zeng (Aug 2, 2016)

zeng said:


> 2 questions to SCS owners;
> 
> 1) When I play a legato note higher than an octave, I hear two notes playing, is that normal??
> 
> ...



Any comments??

Here is an audio example. Listen 4th, 6th and 8th notes. They are all a legato note an octave below. They're playing 2 notes?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/40xcpmkwnti2jgh/SCS_TEST.mp3?dl=0


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## jacobthestupendous (Aug 2, 2016)

zeng said:


> 2 questions to SCS owners;
> 
> 1) When I play a legato note higher than an octave, I hear two notes playing, is that normal??
> 
> ...


I don't know with SCS specifically, but it isn't uncommon for legato transitions to only be recorded within an octave of each note.


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## ClefferNotes (Aug 2, 2016)

zeng said:


> 2 questions to SCS owners;
> 
> 1) When I play a legato note higher than an octave, I hear two notes playing, is that normal??
> 
> ...


Hey Zeng, this occurs on all the Spitfire legato's as fas as I am aware, as the legato intervals are sampled up to an octave above the note you are initially playing.


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## zeng (Aug 2, 2016)

ClefferNotes said:


> Hey Zeng, this occurs on all the Spitfire legato's as fas as I am aware, as the legato intervals are sampled up to an octave above the note you are initially playing.



Thanks for the info but it is not happening on Sable 1? Am I wrong? When you play a legato note exceeding octave it only loses legato transition.

But on SCS it plays a melody when you play a legato note above or below octave


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## ClefferNotes (Aug 2, 2016)

zeng said:


> Thanks for the info but it is not happening on Sable 1? Am I wrong? When you play a legato note exceeding octave it only loses legato transition.
> 
> But on SCS it plays a melody when you play a legato note above or below octave


No worries, I just checked on Sable V2 fingered legato patch and I get the exact same results and plays 2 notes. Hope this helps.


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## zeng (Aug 2, 2016)

ClefferNotes said:


> No worries, I just checked on Sable V2 fingered legato patch and I get the exact same results and plays 2 notes. Hope this helps.



Ok thanks ClefferNotes


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## zeng (Aug 3, 2016)

neblix said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right place, but here goes.
> 
> I got SCS yesterday, and I love it, it's fantastic. My big glaring issue with it, though, is the Cello legato script sounds lacking, somewhat. I can hear the legato transition samples popping in, in a non-smooth fashion. I don't hear this issue in the Violins and Violas. Is there a way I can report this to Spitfire so it can get tuned up?
> 
> ...



I don't know if you figured it out or not but you may try enabling Cello (bowed). For any reason it is loading disabled on me. It may affect legato transitions.


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