# Best Woodwinds?



## calebfaith (Feb 3, 2018)

I'm looking into perhaps purchasing a new WW library for writing both Impressionistic and Film styles. I have Berlin WW (the original one) but I find it lacking. I was wondering whether the upgrade is worth it or perhaps Spitfire WW? Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks!


----------



## Leon Portelance (Feb 3, 2018)

I have a Berlin Woodwinds Legacy, Exp. A, B & C. I also purchased Revive, but I am still using Legacy. I think the library is very good. What do you find lacking?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Feb 3, 2018)

What do you find lacking about Berlin WW? The other great WW library is VSL. IMO, it doesn't really get any better than those two at the moment. I'd wait and see what happens with Synchron Woodwinds and Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


----------



## tack (Feb 3, 2018)

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/woodwinds-last-thread-for-my-arsenal.68589/


----------



## Kony (Feb 3, 2018)

Ditto for BWW legacy - excellent library as far as I'm concerned


----------



## calebfaith (Feb 3, 2018)

It's definitely a good library but I was just inquiring if there were any other that people recommend? 

I do however find that the consistency of the articulations is poor. Such as the shorts all are different lengths between instruments. I'm not sure if this was on purpose? I'd also like a few more microphone positions.

How do you all feel about EW Hollywood WW?


----------



## calebfaith (Feb 3, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> What do you find lacking about Berlin WW? The other great WW library is VSL. IMO, it doesn't really get any better than those two at the moment. I'd wait and see what happens with Synchron Woodwinds and Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.



Definitely looking forward to Cinematic Studio Woodwinds. I use CSS + CSSS extensively


----------



## joebaggan (Feb 3, 2018)

CH Winds


----------



## dhlkid (Feb 3, 2018)

+1 VSL, Berlin


----------



## Casiquire (Feb 3, 2018)

Yeah VSL and BWW are really the top. I've heard good things from Chris Hein but my personal experience is limited to his strings. Probably worth taking a look. I would advise against Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds. I have not found them as convincing or as nice sounding. They're regarded as the weak point of the otherwise mostly great Hollywood series.

I have the most experience with VSL and find them to be the most consistent sampled instruments I own in tone, playability, control, articulations, literally everything.


----------



## C-Wave (Feb 3, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> Yeah VSL and BWW are really the top. I've heard good things from Chris Hein but my personal experience is limited to his strings. Probably worth taking a look. I would advise against Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds. I have not found them as convincing or as nice sounding. They're regarded as the weak point of the otherwise mostly great Hollywood series.
> 
> I have the most experience with VSL and find them to be the most consistent sampled instruments I own in tone, playability, control, articulations, literally everything.


a friend here bought CH Hein woodwinds but don’t recall hm very impressed.. if he sees this it would be great if he would chime in with his thoughts.
I’ve tried many, and for consistency i truly think nobody beats VSL. to them it’s a philosophy.


----------



## Montisquirrel (Feb 3, 2018)

You should also take a look at Fluffy Audios Woodwinds.


----------



## Casiquire (Feb 3, 2018)

Montisquirrel said:


> You should also take a look at Fluffy Audios Woodwinds.



I've heard great things about these too! Definitely more under the radar.


----------



## Leon Portelance (Feb 3, 2018)

Hollywood Woodwinds are not that great. I stopped using them when I got Berlin Woodwinds.


----------



## reddognoyz (Feb 3, 2018)

There are different lib's with different strengths. baked in performance/hall sound with legato sounds great if you're writing the kind of lines they are written for. If not, you're in for a long night. I own bww hww ew symphonic winds cinewinds ch winds compact samplemodel (audiomodeling now) winds, broadway lights warp 6, um some vsl some older stuff that I still use for specific situations ( You want music for squirrels? my go to is still the miroslav stac oboe. Nothing says squirrrels more than that) ...... many many libraries. Too many I admit I have a problem, maybe there's a twelve step program out there for me. 
Anyway I suppose if I had found the holy grail I would've stopped but I have yet to find one library to rule them all. different brushes for different strokes. I use a wind controller with audio modeling and love the result, except when I want a stately classical performance, then it's anybody's guess as to what will do that for me. I mean, come on! there samples. I live in a hell of trying to make samples sound lively and lovely... for money.


----------



## nas (Feb 4, 2018)

I like SF Woodwinds very much and it's quite comprehensive, but one thing to keep in mind is that the large hall is baked into the sound - even with the close mic up and the tree and ambient mics down, you can hear some faint slap-back. For more intimate or smaller arrangements I would go with something like VSL woodwinds (which still sound great to me) and add the ambience/reverb. Also as mentioned, Fluffy Audio woodwinds are excellent (the clarinet is outstanding) and definitely worth checking out.


----------



## Casiquire (Feb 4, 2018)

Interesting you have all other VSL sections except the winds, which are their strongest! But thanks for the insights.


----------



## Casiquire (Feb 4, 2018)

They're a great selection just on their own!


----------



## Casiquire (Feb 4, 2018)

Lol I don't blame you! The special editions.


----------



## Fleer (Feb 4, 2018)

I’m quite impressed by some of Embertone’s woodwinds. Very lifelike and sensitive to play. These guys are at the top of their game nowadays. Just look at that Joshua Bell violin. IMO the Herring Clarinet, Recorders and Flutes are just as sweet.


----------



## romantic (Feb 5, 2018)

For consistency I also give my vote to VSL


----------



## rottoy (Feb 5, 2018)

Montisquirrel said:


> You should also take a look at Fluffy Audios Woodwinds.


 +1
I only have the clarinet from Fluffy Audio, but it really has no equal. Not even the Embertone Herring Clarinet, which I also love.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Feb 5, 2018)

hodshonf said:


> I will be going Full Kontakt



Right on man. But don't get knocked out.


----------



## Pablocrespo (Feb 5, 2018)

Does anybody has examples of VSL SE?
there aren´t many in youtube


----------



## muk (Feb 5, 2018)

There are four official demos on the VSL page:

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Special_Edition_Vol1/SE_Vol1_Woodwinds#!Demos

From personal experience I can say that the VSL SE woodwinds are a great library. 70€ is a steal for the quality you get. And especially if you add the SE+ extension for more articulations they'll cover everything you need for standard orchestral work.


----------



## Casiquire (Feb 5, 2018)

I agree that SE are great. They're easy to sculpt expressive performances with, even without a thousand dynamic layers.


----------



## artomatic (Feb 5, 2018)

I have the VSL SE and was wondering if it's better for me to grab the SE Vol.1 WOODWINDS PLUS or the SE Vol.2 WOODWINDS? Thanks for your advice.


----------



## Casiquire (Feb 5, 2018)

artomatic said:


> I have the VSL SE and was wondering if it's better for me to grab the SE Vol.1 WOODWINDS PLUS or the SE Vol.2 WOODWINDS? Thanks for your advice.



There are so many variants of SE, so it depends which package you have now. Do you have just flutes, oboes, clarinets and bassoons or do you also have saxes, etc? If the former, you'll get new instruments by going with Volume 2, and I think you'd get good mileage out of that. If the latter, then you with 1+ to keep expanding articulations.

Though if you already have the instruments that come with 1 and 2, an even better option might be to save for the full Winds library or get one or two single instruments instead. I feel the Plus articulations aren't quite useful enough to be worth it rather than just going all in.


----------



## artomatic (Feb 5, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> There are so many variants of SE, so it depends which package you have now. Do you have just flutes, oboes, clarinets and bassoons or do you also have saxes, etc? If the former, you'll get new instruments by going with Volume 2, and I think you'd get good mileage out of that. If the latter, then you with 1+ to keep expanding articulations.
> 
> Though if you already have the instruments that come with 1 and 2, an even better option might be to save for the full Winds library or get one or two single instruments instead. I feel the Plus articulations aren't quite useful enough to be worth it rather than just going all in.



Thanks, Casiquire. Will be getting Vol. 2 based on your info and VSL site. Truly appreciate it!


----------



## Mrted (Dec 21, 2019)

What's the best 2020 Woodwinds library  ? thanks


----------



## Saxer (Dec 21, 2019)

Mrted said:


> What's the best 2020 Woodwinds library  ? thanks


Ask again in one year.


----------



## cqd (Dec 21, 2019)

Saxer said:


> Ask again in one year.



And it'll probably be CSWW..


----------



## Mrted (Dec 21, 2019)

Saxer said:


> Ask again in one year.



I won't ! you may answer the same thing again....Yet I put a smiley for people like you who wouldn't catch a touch of irony in my question but I was too presomptuous.
So I ask again so you can understand: What's the best 2020 minus 10 days woodwinds library ? Thanks guys !


----------



## reimerpdx (Dec 21, 2019)

Mrted said:


> I won't ! you may answer the same thing again....Yet I put a smiley for people like you who wouldn't catch a touch of ironie in my question but I was too presomptuous.
> So I ask again so you can understand: What's the best 2020 minus 10 days woodwinds library ? Thanks guys !


From listening to all the demos from all the different libraries, which do you like best?
you may be hard pressed to find someone who owns and has used them all, and can make a purely objective recommendation.
from what I’ve heard in demos, I would love to own OT Berlin WW. I own Cinewinds which are good, but my basis for comparison is EW platinum orchestra.
i also own random patches from 8dio and Spitfire.


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 21, 2019)

Currently using BBCSO Woodwinds in my main template. They have a great tone. Still I'll will be happy to replace them with CSW (surprise) once it's released and performs well.
Sure, you most likely wouldn't get BBCSO just for the winds.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Dec 21, 2019)

VSL, VSL, and VSL. And maybe also VSL.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 21, 2019)

As mentioned above, VSL and BWW seem to be among the top choices today for detailed woodwind writing. I’m on the OT side of things, and love the sound out of the box.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Dec 21, 2019)

I wish OT had a larger and more expansive and diverse set of audio demos for their products. I have heard stuff done with various OT libraries that blow me away; whereas their audio demos on their own site do not convince me, given the lack of resale policy, and also some concerns over the move away from Kontakt.


----------



## Mrted (Dec 22, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> VSL, VSL, and VSL. And maybe also VSL.


What VSL ? The different packages are a mess, I don't get how they classify. They should have a more understandable offer for people who want to enter VSL world  . I use VEpro with kontakt but have only Epic Orchestra 2.0 and Big Bang Orchestra. So only 1 woodwind patch: it's a whole woodwind orchestra patch.


----------



## composingkeys (Dec 22, 2019)

A great starter for a general palette of orchestral instruments would be the SYNCHRON-ized Special Edition Volume 1 Essential Orchestra as this has all the instruments placed in the Synchron stage for a great out of the box sound (you can also disable these impulses and have the library dry if you want to do your processing). If you are only looking for Woodwinds, SYNCHRON-ized Woodwinds would be a great solution here: https://www.ilio.com/synchronized-woodwinds


----------



## purple (Dec 22, 2019)

The hollywood woodwinds have a lot of the same issues as the berlin woodwinds but not really any of the advantages... The articulations are inconsistent and the tone is not great for most of them, to my ears. They're fine but not going to fill the holes in BWW for you. I'd recommend waiting for CSW and decinding then. They so far have put out some _very_ consistent libraries, and I am excited to see if they pull it off with woodwinds too.


----------



## constaneum (Dec 22, 2019)

purple said:


> The hollywood woodwinds have a lot of the same issues as the berlin woodwinds but not really any of the advantages... The articulations are inconsistent and the tone is not great for most of them, to my ears. They're fine but not going to fill the holes in BWW for you. I'd recommend waiting for CSW and decinding then. They so far have put out some _very_ consistent libraries, and I am excited to see if they pull it off with woodwinds too.



i hope CSW will be a great product. My current most favourite solo woodwinds is Auddict's flute. It has the tone that i'm looking for and i really hope that tone would be found in CSW too.

By the way, if you listen to CSB demos, you can hear woodwinds featured. I wonder whether the woodwinds are from CSW


----------



## Oxytoxine (Dec 23, 2019)

Anyone of you also got Aaron Venture Woodwinds and can compare them to the above mentioned libs (VSL, BWW, etc.)?


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 23, 2019)

constaneum said:


> i hope CSW will be a great product.
> 
> By the way, if you listen to CSB demos, you can hear woodwinds featured. I wonder whether the woodwinds are from CSW



I mostly hope they do it right and sample two of each. It leaves me puzzled when developers sample ensemble/a3 sections only (for example Sonokinetic) or just one solo player plus a2 (Spitfire). You can't write properly for woodwinds like that, which bugs me.


----------



## Henu (Dec 23, 2019)

I know you can't and you shouldn't but I love the Spitfire flutes a2 patch.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 23, 2019)

Henu said:


> I know you can't and you shouldn't but I love the Spitfire flutes a2 patch.


Though SSW doesn’t get a lot of love around here, I like the library for orchestral work. I don’t love the solo clarinet or solo flute, but both are acceptable (the clarinet a little less so). And the library as a whole is well calibrated to the kinds of things I want the woodwinds to do. I also like the sound of the hall.


----------



## nas (Dec 23, 2019)

I also really like SSW a lot for orchestral and find I can make do with Fluffy audio's solo Clarinet (which is excellent) in cases where SSW's clarinet does not work. I absolutely love SSW's solo Bassoon.


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 23, 2019)

While they are not my recommendation for your primary library, and they have received little love on this forum, if you get both the ensembles _and_ the solos, this library is really useful IMHO.









macProVideo.com


If you want 6 flutes; 6 oboes; 6 Bâ™ clarinets; 6 bassoons; 6 tenor saxophones; and 6 bass winds to punctuate your tracks, NI's Woodwind Ensemble for Kontakt aim




www.macprovideo.com


----------



## Loïc D (Dec 23, 2019)

I enjoy Spitfire Audio Studio Woodwinds Pro : wealth of instruments & articulations, well recorded and rather cohesive.


----------



## AllanH (Dec 23, 2019)

For ensembles, the two I use the most at this point are Spitfire Studio WW pro and BBCSO. For soloists I still use Hollywood Orchestra along with those two.


----------



## RogiervG (Dec 30, 2019)

cqd said:


> And it'll probably be CSWW..


Late to the party.. but.. CSWW? What's that?
Cinematic Studio Whispering Woodwinds?
Cinematic Studio Woody Woodwinds?
Cinematic Studio Wants Wood?


----------



## Casiquire (Dec 30, 2019)

In the past year I've used Hein's winds, and yes, VSL still wins.



Mrted said:


> What VSL ? The different packages are a mess, I don't get how they classify. They should have a more understandable offer for people who want to enter VSL world  . I use VEpro with kontakt but have only Epic Orchestra 2.0 and Big Bang Orchestra. So only 1 woodwind patch: it's a whole woodwind orchestra patch.



An easy way to start without spending too much money is to buy a single instrument. If you pick one of your favorite instruments first you can play with it until you get a feel for how their libraries work and sound, and keep going from there


----------



## pierrevigneron (Jan 5, 2020)

I recommand you Infinite woodwinds if you want a good package of woodwinds. very customizables, no keyswitch (very agreable to program) and overall good soundings. Not perfect in tone but the developper will upgrade.

+1 vsl woodwinds has a very beautiful close miking sound


----------



## JyTy (Mar 27, 2020)

Hello everyone,
So I was thinking of being patient and catch Spitfire Woodwinds Studio and Symphony packages on sale and add them to my collection through the year. But now the VSL 50% discount looks very tempting!!! Thinking about Woodwinds I & II package (although I hate the idea of having a physical licence key).

Do I pull the trigger? Most of my libraries consist of Spitfire and EW libraries. Will I have many difficulties in blending them in? I have never used any VSL product, their site is a bit of mess and a couple of years behind competitors so it is really hard for me to decide with confidence (if anybody from VSL is reading this, please hire an agency that knows how to do those things to make something that doesn't put me off from buying! Believe me, it will pay itself back tenfold or more in your case!! I know what I'm talking about  )? I know their products are supposed to be top-notch but would still value your opinion.


----------



## Ben (Mar 27, 2020)

JyTy said:


> if anybody from VSL is reading this


Yes, we hear your feedback and we are working on it. At the moment we are focusing on recording and producing the best libraries possible. But we are aware of the issues with the website and it's something we want to improve in near future.

Regarding your question about the woodwinds, here is my personal opinion: Go get them, they are awsome and sound beautiful. Get the Full library, the additional articulations will give you more control and variations. With the Full-Library you can also control the amount of vibrato of most instruments by crossfading between the vibrato and non-vibrato variant of the articulations.
And if you are not happy with these instruments you can return them within 14 days if bought on our website. In this case just send a mail to [email protected]


----------



## JyTy (Mar 27, 2020)

@Ben Thank you so much for your answer. I think I might do that (once I sort a question about VAT that I already sent to your support).

Regarding the website, just hire a decent agency they will 97% of the work, great copy & visuals that will make your products shine and present them in a way they deserve to be presented  you will still be able to focus on recording and producing the best libraries possible, you will just sell more of them probably as well  great product combined with good & clear branding (with everything that goes with it) is a killer combo 

Take care, hope everyone is safe and well on your side!


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 3, 2020)

I finally got around to trying to work SYNCHRON-ized Woodwinds into my projects tonight, and it was a complete fail. I tried everything I could think of, but no go. It's a complete mystery to me how my favourite part of VSL could have been so radically altered during the editing process, so I surely must be missing something. Gone is the nice warm dark woody timbre.

The biggest mystery is why everything is down about 48 dB. I record softer than anyone I know, but have to do a considerable boost and forfeit swells on material where I don't think I'll be needing any, just to get the levels to a usable -24 dB down.

I definitely can detect some improvements in consistency from note to note, so I do hope it is possible to overcome the fatal flaws, such as the gigantic timbral shift from the original editions, and the output level issues. Even if I turn off all the Synchron features like EQ, the various reverbs, resonance, etc., and boost the main mic level as well as CC7 and CC11 both at max, Flute II and Oboe II sound nothing like before. Only Flute I closely matches the original timbre.

As I frequently pair Flute with Alto Flute, I don't think I'll even be using SYNCHRON-ized Woodwinds for Flute I (I use Flute II more often anyway), as I would then have inconsistent downstream production. Unless Alto Flute and others are coming in a later SYNCHRON-ized add-on.

The strangest thing to me as that there are some ring-y notes here and there that sound harsh and metallic, when otherwise I would have thought any of that from the original edition would have been part of the editing improvements, just as I have noticed in Elements and Plucked Instruments. But these are new problems that weren't present in the old edition.

I don't think the Synchron stage is at fault, even though I can easily see how some rooms may not be best for woodwinds (even metal ones like flute and sax) compared to other instrument families. After all, the timbral shift was only barely mitigated by shutting off every possible reverb and resonance setting I could find, and even the built-in EQ (which after all is mostly designed to REDUCE unwanted resonance).

One thing I thought of, that also is hinted at in some earlier posts, is that the dynamic range may be quite different now. But if I increase Note On Velocities or EXP, it still doesn't bring me much closer to the wonderful old timbre. I would anyway prefer that the MIDI spec be obeyed by all vendors, when it comes to interpreting the dynamic range cutoff points. Recent Superior drum libraries and Soniccouture Moonkits have for instance moved in the direction of encouraging things to be at mf and bellow vs. 1980's MIDI style of ffff for everything. But I'm running out of ideas for what to tweak in Synchron.


----------



## axb312 (Apr 3, 2020)

Ben said:


> Yes, we hear your feedback and we are working on it. At the moment we are focusing on recording and producing the best libraries possible. But we are aware of the issues with the website and it's something we want to improve in near future.
> 
> Regarding your question about the woodwinds, here is my personal opinion: Go get them, they are awsome and sound beautiful. Get the Full library, the additional articulations will give you more control and variations. With the Full-Library you can also control the amount of vibrato of most instruments by crossfading between the vibrato and non-vibrato variant of the articulations.
> And if you are not happy with these instruments you can return them within 14 days if bought on our website. In this case just send a mail to [email protected]


So you don't allow refunds via third party websites? Or is that up to the website owners themselves?


----------



## doctoremmet (Apr 3, 2020)

Oxytoxine said:


> Anyone of you also got Aaron Venture Woodwinds and can compare them to the above mentioned libs (VSL, BWW, etc.)?


Aaron Venture IW user here. Totally different concept. All about playability and tone. Yesterday the 1.4 version of Infinite Brass was released with a ton of improvements. Those same improvements will hit the 1.2 version of IW. At that point IW will be unbeatable but as it is, it is already top notch - except maybe for the flutes. The thing is, you have to have a slightly different mindset and create your own ensembles. Once you do, the instrument beats every single competitor out there. Also: it is WAY more fun to play the Infinite instruments, so if that’s your thing the instrument will also be a GREAT sketching tool.

This is a recent statement from an IB 1.4 user, that sums it up nicely:





I am convinced that the same thing holds for IW, especially once it hits 1.2. Another great thing about Aaron Venture is that once you’ve bought one of the instruments you get updates free for life.


----------



## easyrider (Apr 3, 2020)

JyTy said:


> Hello everyone,
> So I was thinking of being patient and catch Spitfire Woodwinds Studio and Symphony packages on sale and add them to my collection through the year. But now the VSL 50% discount looks very tempting!!! Thinking about Woodwinds I & II package (although I hate the idea of having a physical licence key).
> 
> Do I pull the trigger? Most of my libraries consist of Spitfire and EW libraries. Will I have many difficulties in blending them in? I have never used any VSL product, their site is a bit of mess




The very reason I have not bought any VSL libraries...its 2020 and the website creates opprobrium generated by its layout and over complex design. It really is a mess and could be fixed in very quickly 

Plus the e-licenser (shudder) I can deal with this for one license of cubase at a push...but not multiple libraries....


----------



## axb312 (Apr 3, 2020)

easyrider said:


> The very reason I have not bought any VSL libraries...its 2020 and the website creates opprobrium generated by its layout and over complex design. It really is a mess and could be fixed in very quickly
> 
> Plus the e-licenser (shudder) I can deal with this for one license of cubase at a push...but not multiple libraries....



I was considering getting VSL woods but I don't think the elicenser can be shipped in right now.

What's wrong with machine based ilok?


----------



## easyrider (Apr 3, 2020)

axb312 said:


> I was considering getting VSL woods but I don't think the elicenser can be shipped in right now.
> 
> What's wrong with machine based ilok?




VSL doesn't use Ilok....


----------



## Rob (Apr 3, 2020)

Mark Schmieder said:


> ... gigantic timbral shift from the original editions, and the output level issues.


maybe, indeed something is wrong in your setup... I only have the se version, but I find timbre almost identical, once reverbs are disabled... even glitches are retained  here the oboe1 and clarinet, VIpro first, then Synchro


----------



## Ben (Apr 3, 2020)

Mark Schmieder said:


> The biggest mystery is why everything is down about 48 dB.


Make sure you have turned up the master volume in the Synchron Player. The Synchron / SYNCHRON-ized libraries are all volume matched via this parameter.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 3, 2020)

Yep, it's at 127, which isn't usually where I have it. I even turned CC11 up to 127 to see if it would help (and it did help a little), for parts where I don't have swells etc.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 3, 2020)

I haven't tested Oboe 1 or Clarinet yet; I do my own clarinet parts, and have always preferred Oboe II to Oboe I. Based on the Flute I vs. Flute II experience (I like both but more often use Flute II), it seems the II's are the main ones exhibiting the timbre shifts. And of course there's no Alto Flute (which I use a LOT), and not nearly as many articulations either, but I was able to MOSTLY match the articulations I use in VI Woodwinds Extended.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 3, 2020)

There is also a soft eLicenser that Steinberg sometimes uses for demos, but I don't think it gets used for non-demo licenses at all. In other words, I'm not sure it's even a decision that VSL can make for themselves in the future. The eLicenser system is quite different from how iLok works.


----------



## Ben (Apr 3, 2020)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Yep, it's at 127, which isn't usually where I have it. I even turned CC11 up to 127 to see if it would help (and it did help a little), for parts where I don't have swells etc.


Can't confirm this. I have just tested each instrument and they are all fine. Please double check your routing and mixing settings in VEP and your DAW.



Mark Schmieder said:


> There is also a soft eLicenser


Soft eLicenser is not an option for us, sorry.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 3, 2020)

I'm not using VEP, and there are no routing issues, which also is double-confirmed by changing the patches. I went to the Settings window too, to see if there might be anything that might react in a funny way, and also watched all the sliders to make sure nothing was causing strangeness in the other CC's.

Please note that the biggest difference is in Flute II, and then Oboe II. I am able to get Flute I to be almost identical once disabling extra features from Synchron and pushing up the mic volume a bit.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 4, 2020)

Also, please be aware that I in no way mean to tarnish the image of the SYNCHRON-ized libraries. I am hoping to find a way to be able to completely phase out the older stuff, as I much prefer the workflow of Synchron Player and also feel they did a great job of allowing for flexible and intuitive "pre-production" of each patch.

But I am definitely holding off on the other upgrades until I am confident I won't lose preferred timbres as well as needed articulations, as I have the full Symphonic Cube. There's still a few percussion items missing from Synchron, and of course as I use the entire Oboe family (and Alto Flute) I would need those as well, to have consistent production.

For now, I am completing my immediate targets with the woodwinds, strings, and brass (but not the percussion) in the older format, but especially the woodwinds as I use them more than brass and don't like any other vendor's offerings; whereas I'll sometimes use Spitfire or one or two others for brass or strings (though not so much for solo strings).

Once I have actual income again and am not on the edge of disaster in every aspect of my life (yes, I got hit with the virus, but I think I am fully recovered now), I will try to do a thorough and methodical reproducible comparison for Oboe II and Flute II and then compare the others (Clarinet, Bassoon). I do not regret the upgrade and expect I will use it on new projects.


----------



## Geomir (Apr 4, 2020)

For people in low / medium budget and mid-end / decent PC or laptop, I can only say that the Woodwinds of the Synchronized Editions (Vol. 1 and 2) are the most beautifully sounding Woodwinds I have ever experienced, from the lyrical solo flute and oboe d'amore legatos up to the bassoon and bass clarinet staccatos. They are so alive! Also the 3 different oboes are so different, they have completely distinct character and personality. It's my go to woodwind library whenever I need any woodwind instrument.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 4, 2020)

Oboe d'Amore is not in SYNCHRON-ized Woodwinds, and there's still just one volume. I rechecked just now, to see if I somehow missed a second volume either in my purchase or in my installation.

Perhaps you are referring to VSL Special Edition series, which includes lots of different instruments in stripped-down articulation offerings but has also been ported to Synchron Player as SYNCHRON-ized versions?

I didn't bother upgrading my Special Editions, but might have some additional SYNCHRON-ized instruments in one of the other compilations like Epic Orchestra. I only scanned those last night specifically to see if they contained any Solo Strings.


----------



## Geomir (Apr 4, 2020)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Oboe d'Amore is not in SYNCHRON-ized Woodwinds, and there's still just one volume. I rechecked just now, to see if I somehow missed a second volume either in my purchase or in my installation.
> 
> Perhaps you are referring to VSL Special Edition series, which includes lots of different instruments in stripped-down articulation offerings but has also been ported to Synchron Player as SYNCHRON-ized versions?
> 
> I didn't bother upgrading my Special Editions, but might have some additional SYNCHRON-ized instruments in one of the other compilations like Epic Orchestra. I only scanned those last night specifically to see if they contained any Solo Strings.


Yes I was referring to the Synchronized SPECIAL Editions (Vol 1 and 2)!


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 4, 2020)

That's not too surprising then, as I feel the curation of woodwinds/articulations for the original versions of the Special Editions were some of the smartest of that series, and they are in fact what caused me to "take the chance" on spending the money for the full editions.


----------



## Geomir (Apr 4, 2020)

My only experience is with the Synchronized Special Editions, and this experience is very good (and I am not speaking only about woodwinds now), but I have to resist to the full editions, because I am usually in low budget and own a mid-end PC...

I don't know about the original versions, I am new to this (about 1 year), so I never got the chance to buy them in the past. Also I always liked the classical concert sound rich in natural ambiance, so I jumped directly to the Synchronized Special Editions!

What positively shocked my about the Synchronized Special Editions is the BALANCE between every single note of every instrument of every articulation! I had to experience it to believe it! Also the position of all the instruments! I have never panned an instrument when I use VSL! I trust them more than me! Everything is perfectly placed and balanced!

But yes, back to the original subject, I believe that Woodwinds is one of the strongest points of VSL, it has always been! And I have yet to encounter most naturally sounding woodwinds!


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Apr 5, 2020)

Yes, the note balance is definitely ideal in the various Synchron Player material, whether the new recordings or the revised older stuff from Vienna Instruments Player.

As I move more of my articulations away from the various single-note choices and more towards a well-understood balance of legato vs. non-legato, during my final production run on my most pressing material, I may find that a final comparison of old-to-new shows fewer differences in timbre, and that the timbre across the articulations at similar dynamic layers is more consistent in SYNCHRON-ized stuff.

This is why I didn't save what I did in order to post; I wanted to first feel out whether others had experienced the timbral shift. So when I have delivered my final arrangements this week (I hope), I will see if I can return to the SYNCHRON-ized stuff and see if the timbral shift is still noticeable when comparing mostly the various legato patches (as the main articulations).

A lot of what I write isn't applicable to legato, but more of it is than I originally thought, as I forgot about the Legato Marcato stuff. One of the many things I like about VSL is that they take a more consistent approach across instrument ranges than other vendors, so what one learns scales well to new instruments as they get pulled into a project for the first time.


----------

