# Stars & moon (orchestral)



## sherief83 (Dec 21, 2018)

Hello friends,

wanted to share piece #4 of 7 (part of my Up coming Quixotic Love IV Album) i've posted the others here before, night & day, paradise Vally, human journey.



Let me say, the main melody which comes around 2:33, is what the piece is built around. i'd say if the length of the piece is a turn off, I understand, but i do highly recommend letting the 2:33 melody come by, if its still bad, abandon ship at your convenience.

from technical point of view, I'd say, i have a few more MIDI note fixes to do and a few orchestration beefing in some areas but at the moment it escapes me..which makes it time to let it out and see how you all feel about it. but technical feed back if any of you want to take this journey is welcome.


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## apessino (Dec 21, 2018)

Great work! You are a fan of chromaticism, I take? 

Any feedback on something of this scale can only be taken as nitpicking, overall this is some seriously impressive level of writing and rendering. 

For the writing, my only observation would be that the mid section feels like it drags a tiny bit, as the whole central chunk is not so much developing as it is restating, even with the few buildups. Then again, maybe that is the intention in which case it is perfect - otherwise I would introduce some sort of "episode," something away from the continuing chromatic ondulation perhaps, like a rhythmic or harmonic tangent, just so that when the opening gestures return they feel refreshed and ready to evolve into the finale. Or maybe not... again, this is purely subjective.

The sample work ranges from impeccable to adequate - the strings are especially great, while the winds have the least convincing tone and feel a bit phasey at times. A lot of buildup in the mids and some resonance in a few spots. Around 6:35 the winds sound pinched - they don't quite "sing" like they should in the mix. Again, very minor... feel free to ignore.

Overall, fantastic work - I enjoyed listening for the whole 15 minutes.

Out of curiosity: do you score the whole thing first or do you just build the piece in the sequencer?


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## sherief83 (Dec 22, 2018)

Thank you apessino! Genuinely appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.

I think I understand your point of view. A few passages there (mostly for the main repeating melody) could use a musical or thematic break and then go back fresh which would help their appreciation further. Issue is, it would be even longer lol which I was fighting hard. I’ll explore it though as I felt what you stated but ignored it.

I’ll work on the woodwinds further. I was experimenting with a few panning and reverb tricks but it may have taken something from them.

For the composition. It all starts with the main melody and the harmonical language that goes with it. I develop that first on the side and then dive deep into the form and structure of the piece in the daw it self.

Thank you again!


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## cloudesky (Dec 22, 2018)

I really like the sound of your composition. You have made a very beautiful piece. Thank you for sharing.


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## TGV (Dec 22, 2018)

It is a really good piece, sumptuously orchestrated, but I understand apessino's comments. It feels meandering in the middle, which is not an issue if there are programmatic notes or if it accompanies images, but then providing descriptions of the sections along the track might help focus attention. It might even help to stay in the same key for a while and follow a simple progression, because each modulation feels significant, but is hard to understand.

Don't let this stop you from following and developing your own vision, though, because that is of high artistic quality, executed with great craftsmanship.


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## MA-Simon (Dec 22, 2018)

Sounding awesome.
Forgot it was midi until you said: " Midi note fixes". Impressive.
Where did you get that "room-tone" background from?


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## sherief83 (Dec 23, 2018)

Thank you guys, genuinely appriciate your words!

@MA-Simon 
Those were recorded floor samples from years and years ago that I collected. I believe they may have been posted here if i remember. But yeah they are white noise and floor creek noises.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jan 8, 2019)

MA-Simon said:


> Where did you get that "room-tone" background from?



Yes, this is great, and adds so much realism to the track, which is beautiful, by the way. Want it!


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## mediumaevum (Jan 8, 2019)

This piece - especially the mixing/reverb and the background noise - is truely inspirational for my future work of music. I have to try this some day!

How did you do the reverb part?


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## Maxfabian (Jan 8, 2019)

This is so beautiful!! You have captured a feeling that I really enjoyed listening to. Great 
Cheers!


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## Wally Garten (Jan 8, 2019)

Man, that was beautiful.


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## sherief83 (Jan 10, 2019)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Yes, this is great, and adds so much realism to the track, which is beautiful, by the way. Want it!



Thank you! Genuinely appreciate it! Thought this thread was dead so glad you enjoyed it! 



Maxfabian said:


> This is so beautiful!! You have captured a feeling that I really enjoyed listening to. Great
> Cheers!



Thank you Max, coming form you sir, genuinely appreciate it! 



mediumaevum said:


> This piece - especially the mixing/reverb and the background noise - is truely inspirational for my future work of music. I have to try this some day!
> 
> How did you do the reverb part?



Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! all reverb are from altiverb. Did a bit of a complex routings to describe but it’s all using altiverb.




Wally Garten said:


> Man, that was beautiful.



Thank you very much!


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## cloudesky (Jan 11, 2019)

sherief83 said:


> Thank you! Genuinely appreciate it! Thought this thread was dead so glad you enjoyed it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Would you happen to have any tutorials you can recommend for routing reverb the way you do? Or if you have any mixing tips you can share. Something about your mix sounds very "real". I really enjoy listening to your compositions. Do you still use CSS primarily for your strings?


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jan 12, 2019)

I'm more interested in the room tone.  

Does anyone know how to get some good ones?


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## ryans (Jan 12, 2019)

There are some very, very... inspiring moments of beauty in this piece...

I found the overall mix a little harsh.. in the 500 Hz to 2 k region.. only in a few places.

Really great work,

Ryan


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## bengoss (Jan 12, 2019)

Great How long did it take you to write this piece?

B


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## Amicus (Jan 12, 2019)

Really lovely, full of nice touches and interesting details. Has a very "live performance" vibe, to my ears. Very much enjoyed it.


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## sherief83 (Jan 12, 2019)

cloudesky said:


> Would you happen to have any tutorials you can recommend for routing reverb the way you do? Or if you have any mixing tips you can share. Something about your mix sounds very "real". I really enjoy listening to your compositions. Do you still use CSS primarily for your strings?



Thank you! no tutorials, it was all experimentation on my part. but what I was guided by is grouping the instruments together and isolating them on their own, then understanding where they are in the orchestra stage. a Basic idea is, your strings are always on your left, woodwinds always somewhere in the middle, cellos on right, brass is back end a bit, and percussion back end a bit as well. 

So I grouped each instruments, i.E Violins, cellos/bass, woodwinds, brass, percussion, routed the output of each section to an individual altiverb plugin, used the same reverb type for all altiverb, but now I had control on each section's where about, parameters, etc. if you own Altiverb, you'll understand what i mean once you mess with it, it has lots of lovely features. 

so that is the basic idea, but that always highly relies on the libraries you purchased and how they were recorded, some libraries like css (yes i have it) has that natural placement recording, but then i tampered with it a bit, so its a fight with how these sample libraries are recorded. I can tell you i've been back and fourth about it for a year and half now trying to fine tune it and i don't personally believe i nailed it, i think it'll take a-lot more fine tuning, the worst part about it is each individual piece of music I go through, specifically dynamics, demands I tamper with the parameters of each altiverb, sends, Eqs, so fourth exclusively for each piece, so it can be alot of work, but the outcome...is very worth your time. 

I hope that gives you a general idea. 




Pixelpoet1985 said:


> I'm more interested in the room tone.
> 
> Does anyone know how to get some good ones?



here is one you can try, its only 37 seconds but you can loop it and edit it to your needs.

http://www.sheriefmusic.com/noise.zip (www.sheriefmusic.com/noise.zip)




ryans said:


> There are some very, very... inspiring moments of beauty in this piece...
> 
> I found the overall mix a little harsh.. in the 500 Hz to 2 k region.. only in a few places.
> 
> ...



Thanks Ryan, I'll probably be working on the mix as I go before final release on Album, I think I feel what you mentioned but i'm always afraid of taking away too much from that range, I may need to go back to the master file and re export after some less harshness.




bengoss said:


> Great How long did it take you to write this piece?
> 
> B



About a week and half. once the main idea is in place, orchestrating comes in quick. 




Amicus said:


> Really lovely, full of nice touches and interesting details. Has a very "live performance" vibe, to my ears. Very much enjoyed it.



Thank you very much


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Jan 12, 2019)

sherief83 said:


> here is one you can try, its only 37 seconds but you can loop it and edit it to your needs.



Oh, wow, thank you so much. Very appreciated!


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## ryst (Jan 12, 2019)

Woah. Excellent work, Sherief! I really enjoyed it. Some of it reminded me of something I'd hear in old classic Disney cartoon movies.


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## ryst (Jan 12, 2019)

sherief83 said:


> Thanks Ryan, I'll probably be working on the mix as I go before final release on Album, I think I feel what you mentioned but i'm always afraid of taking away too much from that range, I may need to go back to the master file and re export after some less harshness.



Dynamic eq works well to tame harsh midrange. Just a few db's in the 2-3k range (sometimes higher) always works for me.


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## cloudesky (Jan 13, 2019)

sherief83 said:


> Thank you! no tutorials, it was all experimentation on my part. but what I was guided by is grouping the instruments together and isolating them on their own, then understanding where they are in the orchestra stage. a Basic idea is, your strings are always on your left, woodwinds always somewhere in the middle, cellos on right, brass is back end a bit, and percussion back end a bit as well.
> 
> So I grouped each instruments, i.E Violins, cellos/bass, woodwinds, brass, percussion, routed the output of each section to an individual altiverb plugin, used the same reverb type for all altiverb, but now I had control on each section's where about, parameters, etc. if you own Altiverb, you'll understand what i mean once you mess with it, it has lots of lovely features.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the very useful tips. All I can say is keep doing what you're doing, you're music sounds very beautiful and unique.


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## ScarletJerry (Jan 13, 2019)

sherief83 said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> wanted to share piece #4 of 7 ,i've posted the others here before, night & day, paradise Vally, human journey.
> 
> ...




This sounds amazing! My guess is that you used Hollywood Strings for the string section, correct?

-Scarlet Jerry


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## sherief83 (Jan 14, 2019)

ryst said:


> Woah. Excellent work, Sherief! I really enjoyed it. Some of it reminded me of something I'd hear in old classic Disney cartoon movies.



Thank you! 



ryst said:


> Dynamic eq works well to tame harsh midrange. Just a few db's in the 2-3k range (sometimes higher) always works for me.



Something to experiment with for sure! thanks for sharing 




ScarletJerry said:


> This sounds amazing! My guess is that you used Hollywood Strings for the string section, correct?
> 
> -Scarlet Jerry



Thanks! CSS is what i'm using here.


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Jan 16, 2019)

Hi Sherief, beautiful piece here! Love the writing here, inspiring!


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## muziksculp (Jan 16, 2019)

@sherief83,

This is a lovely piece of music. Enjoyed it quite a bit. 

Thanks for sharing.


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## sherief83 (Jan 16, 2019)

Sid_Barnhoorn said:


> Hi Sherief, beautiful piece here! Love the writing here, inspiring!





muziksculp said:


> @sherief83,
> 
> This is a lovely piece of music. Enjoyed it quite a bit.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.



Thank you Sid! (I remember you from way back when! nice to see you here)

Also Thank you Muziksculp! genuinely appreciate it


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## quetzal (Feb 21, 2019)

Hello,

I really like the piece, great colours, you bring up the melody extremely well!! overall very sweet. 
My only concern is with the chromatic moments. They are very predictable, but even with a little rhythmic variation it will make the trick 


I just subscribed to the forum to share my thoughts with you, I really enjoy your composition!


Thank you for sharing.


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## sherief83 (Feb 22, 2019)

quetzal said:


> Hello,
> 
> I really like the piece, great colours, you bring up the melody extremely well!! overall very sweet.
> My only concern is with the chromatic moments. They are very predictable, but even with a little rhythmic variation it will make the trick
> ...



Welcome to the form! And thanks for letting me know your thoughts!  

The piece will be part of my upcoming album Quixotic love IV and is sort of still work in progress. The final version may end up being slightly shorter but every time I think that someone lets me know it shouldn’t be cut lol. 

It really does need visuals of sort to justify its form the way it is and that’s where I am with it. 

I’ll be posting a new one that is part of this series in the next few month called ‘ land walker & sky flyers ‘
And that one has my focus now.


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## JPQ (Feb 24, 2019)

Nice her something not so massive indeed some parts sound little harsh. but i feel is very common thing.


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## quetzal (Feb 24, 2019)

sherief83 said:


> Welcome to the form! And thanks for letting me know your thoughts!
> 
> The piece will be part of my upcoming album Quixotic love IV and is sort of still work in progress. The final version may end up being slightly shorter but every time I think that someone lets me know it shouldn’t be cut lol.
> 
> ...


I will be waiting for the final work then. Good luck!


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## CT (Feb 24, 2019)

This is seriously impressive!


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## LamaRose (Feb 24, 2019)

This sounds like an authentic, vintage recording of a beloved 20th-century classical/neo classical work. I've been listening to a ton of pieces from this period - cinematic and strictly orchestral - and this can hang with the best of them, imho. It has a magical, uplifting spirit to it in contrast to the dark loathing so often heard in this current age.

The mix and vibe are outstanding... yeah, I can hear the harshness others are commenting on, but this only adds to the vintage mood. I would love to hear this in person with a full orchestra, and I suspect that many others would hear the magic going on and love it as well.


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## sIR dORT (Feb 25, 2019)

Really great piece. Sometimes pieces that long can loose people, but I though you did an excellent job of bringing your main theme/melody in the right moments to give the song direction and unity. The room mix of reverb was cool, and the strings and harp were beautiful. Well done!


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## sherief83 (Feb 25, 2019)

JPQ said:


> Nice her something not so massive indeed some parts sound little harsh. but i feel is very common thing.



Thank you! Appreciate it  



miket said:


> This is seriously impressive!



Thanks! 



LamaRose said:


> This sounds like an authentic, vintage recording of a beloved 20th-century classical/neo classical work. I've been listening to a ton of pieces from this period - cinematic and strictly orchestral - and this can hang with the best of them, imho. It has a magical, uplifting spirit to it in contrast to the dark loathing so often heard in this current age.
> 
> The mix and vibe are outstanding... yeah, I can hear the harshness others are commenting on, but this only adds to the vintage mood. I would love to hear this in person with a full orchestra, and I suspect that many others would hear the magic going on and love it as well.



I think you nailed what I’m always after and thank you for your kind words! 

I basically dissected a lot of the recordings of my favorite orchestral works and most of them were recorded with a lot of noise and hiss and basically you feel the presence of the musician there and so fourth. So I’m always trying to recreate that just for my own entertainment but sometimes I do go too far which is why I post them to put my ears in check. 



sIR dORT said:


> Really great piece. Sometimes pieces that long can lose people, but I though you did an excellent job of bringing your main theme/melody in the right moments to give the song direction and unity. The room mix of reverb was cool, and the strings and harp were beautiful. Well done!



Thank you! Appreciate that. Things were even longer in the classical/romantic/impressionistic world believe it or not. But I am appreciative that you guys gave it a chance all the way. 

It’s diffcult to write something this long in today world. Too much contents available and not enough time for all of it, so people start getting picky on what they want to spend time on. Hence why 3-4 mins is the rule if you’d like a wider audience but....I just fail in that department when it comes to personal content.
I always feel it has to be a captivating journey from point A to B to C and back to A. 

It’s almost a film if the music is good enough to inspire visuals in you. Or you imagine your self conducting it. 

Yes I do that for my favorite pieces to feel their tempo and understand orchestration decisions. Lol

Thanks again!


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