# CineSamples' CinePiano



## ChrisSiuMusic

A review of CinePiano:


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## axb312

Would be great if you could compare this with Light and Sound's concert grand...


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## muadgil

Hi
I just watched your review, great job you're doing here (and the other reviews too)
Well, I have questions about cinepiano, and thought there was no need to create another thread, as your title could perfectly be the official Cinepiano thread in vi control. 
So this library is on sale right now, at 99 it's quite appealing. Right now, my main piano is The Grandeur (came with Komplete). But, I'm not really satisfied with it... I find it quite thin i'd say, not romantic at all. 
Will Cinepiano bring something more?
How would those two compare, and Noire could be added into the equation...
Hoping to read many opinions


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## CGR

I have CinePiano and find it to be a very full sounding Steinway, with an appealing hammer attack throughout the range - great for ballads where you want a melody line to sing. The Sony Scoring stage ambience has a big influence on the tone. The piano they chose is voiced on the warm side, but can really bite with the FFF samples they captured. It can get a little 'blurry' with very fast and articulated playing (the Grandeur holds up better there) but it's still surprisingly flexible and would cover many different styles of playing. A fair price at $199, and a great buy at $99.


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## CGR

BTW, I use a fully weighted keyboard (Yamaha CP4 Stage) and CinePiano plays very naturally.


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## Henu

I bought it yesterday- hands down the best VI piano I've tried. (And I'm a pianist myself).


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## ChrisSiuMusic

muadgil said:


> Hi
> I just watched your review, great job you're doing here (and the other reviews too)
> Well, I have questions about cinepiano, and thought there was no need to create another thread, as your title could perfectly be the official Cinepiano thread in vi control.
> So this library is on sale right now, at 99 it's quite appealing. Right now, my main piano is The Grandeur (came with Komplete). But, I'm not really satisfied with it... I find it quite thin i'd say, not romantic at all.
> Will Cinepiano bring something more?
> How would those two compare, and Noire could be added into the equation...
> Hoping to read many opinions


Great question. Honestly, it's the first piano I turn to 98% of the time, whether it be for sketching purposes or the final piece. It's that good. No bias. I simply love the tone and resonance it brings; it's very clear and warm, plus it comes with 3 other presets for varying moods, if you should need them. Great dynamic range as well.


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## muadgil

"full, warm, flexible, plays naturally, best vi piano, clear, great dynamic range"
Ok well, I guess it is a good one 😁 
And given my piano skills, the fact that it can get a little blurry with fast and articulated playing won't be a problem...
That will be 99€ well spent!


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## SupremeFist

muadgil said:


> "full, warm, flexible, plays naturally, best vi piano, clear, great dynamic range"
> Ok well, I guess it is a good one 😁
> And given my piano skills, the fact that it can get a little blurry with fast and articulated playing won't be a problem...
> That will be 99€ well spent!


Since you find the Grandeur thin (I do as well), I think you will be thrilled by the weight and richness of tone in this one.


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## muadgil

Bought and downloaded!
But, there's something I don't understand... How can I make it appear on my Kontakt librairies listing?


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## muadgil

OK I just check the CineSample Support page, erverything is fine!


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## ALittleNightMusic

I own Piano in Blue but rarely turn to it for some reason. Is this one much better than that?


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## Virtuoso

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Great question. Honestly, it's the first piano I turn to 98% of the time, whether it be for sketching purposes or the final piece. It's that good.


It sounds really nice! Do you know if it supports half-pedaling (i.e. continuous controller on CC64) or does it treat the damper as an on/off switch? I can't seem to find that out anywhere.


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## Simeon

This is from the Cinesamples site.


Pedal Behavior - Repedalling

We added a new feature called Pedal Behavior to CinePiano. When you play a note on a real grand piano with the sustain pedal down, quickly releasing and depressing the sustain pedal does not allow the dampers enough time to stop the strings from vibrating completely. CinePiano effectively models this behavior for a much more lifelike performance.


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## Virtuoso

Yes, I saw that but re-pedaling is a different thing to half pedaling. Re-pedaling is catching the strings while they are still ringing after the notes have been released - more of a gimmick effect.

Half pedaling though is crucial to the feel of the instrument if you are a pianist - it allows you to finely control the amount of damper. If you are used to playing a real piano, it can be very off-putting when you play a VI without it as notes start cutting off unexpectedly as you 'massage' the damper pedal.


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## tmhuud

The CinePiano is truly a great piano VI.

That is all.


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## re-peat

tmhuud said:


> The CinePiano is truly a great piano VI. That is all.



If you stay away from the higher dynamics, perhaps. Anywhere between pianissimo and forte, it's a pretty pleasing virtual piano, absolutely, but the majority of its fff samples ruin the pleasure of playing this instrument almost completely. For me anyway. Because once you know those samples are there, you start holding back in your playing, in order to avoid them. (And it's doubly frustrating because not all fff samples are equally bad. Some are actually very good. But then, way too often, there's these ugly sounding ones that really shouldn't have been allowed into the package.)

Cinesamples must have been aware of the problem cause they've included a switch to disable the fff layer. 

Here's *an illustration of the problem*. (Recorded with the default "01 CinePiano" patch)

__


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## SupremeFist

re-peat said:


> If you stay away from the higher dynamics, perhaps. Anywhere between pianissimo and forte, it's a pretty pleasing virtual piano, absolutely, but the majority of its fff samples ruin the pleasure of playing this instrument almost completely. For me anyway. Because once you know those samples are there, you start holding back in your playing, in order to avoid them. (And it's doubly frustrating because not all fff samples are equally bad. Some are actually very good. But then, way too often, there's these ugly sounding ones that really shouldn't have been allowed into the package.)
> 
> Cinesamples must have been aware of the problem cause they've included a switch to disable the fff layer.
> __


Actually it's a switch to _enable _the fff layer. You don't ever have to turn it on.


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## SupremeFist

(I may be wrong but what I understood from a walkthrough was that the fff layer was not meant to be part of the piano's normal range — especially since it was recorded by stabbing straight down on the keys from a height with several fingers —but more like an optional special effect aimed at loud bass ostinati for action cues, etc.)


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## ChrisSiuMusic

Virtuoso said:


> Yes, I saw that but re-pedaling is a different thing to half pedaling. Re-pedaling is catching the strings while they are still ringing after the notes have been released - more of a gimmick effect.
> 
> Half pedaling though is crucial to the feel of the instrument if you are a pianist - it allows you to finely control the amount of damper. If you are used to playing a real piano, it can be very off-putting when you play a VI without it as notes start cutting off unexpectedly as you 'massage' the damper pedal.


As far as I’m aware, I don’t think this feature is included.


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## re-peat

SupremeFist said:


> Actually it's a switch to _enable _the fff layer. You don't ever have to turn it on.


It's turned on by default, Fist.
And if it was intended mainly for powerful bass ostinati and such, that's particularly strange as most of those fff bass notes sound more like a harpsichord-on-steroïds instead of a roaring grand piano.

But again: below fff, CinePiano can be very seductive.

- - -

Chris, you're right, there is no half-pedaling.

_


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## muadgil

While we are digging into Cinepiano features, do you know if there is a way to inverse the stereo image? By default highs are on the left and lows on the right. I'm used to the opposite, like when I play on a real piano. 
By the way, I'm fully satisfied with the sonority of this piano, very warm and full indeed, with fff disabled. But that kind of extreme piano sound, I never use...


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## re-peat

Muadgil,

In Kontakt, click the wrench (top left button) and insert an 'Inverter' (Instrument InsertFX > Utilities > Inverter) into the empty InsertEffects slot (second one from the right, between the 'SGEQ' and the 'Sends' slots) and enable L/R Swap.

Simpler still (or the only solution if you're using CinePiano in KontaktPlayer): in your DAW, insert a plugin after Kontakt that does L/R swapping. In Logic, for example, the Gain plugin has an L/R swap button. I'm sure other DAWS also have a plugin with which to achieve the same thing.

__


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## SupremeFist

re-peat said:


> It's turned on by default, Fist.


It's enabled in two out of the four patches and disabled in the other two, so I guess that's a draw. 



> And if it was intended mainly for powerful bass ostinati and such, that's particularly strange as most of those fff bass notes sound more like a harpsichord-on-steroïds instead of a roaring grand piano.


Just relaying what the dev said in a video, sorry if it doesn't help. 



> But again: below fff, CinePiano can be very seductive.


So why don't you just use it without the fff layer enabled?


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## re-peat

I guess I’ll have to. But I happen to be the kind of piano player who, when appropriate, likes to visit and exploit the dynamic extremes of the instrument, so the absence of fff will be a lingering disappointment.

And I remain of the opinion that it’s a bit of a pity that they didn’t make this fff layer a bona fide fortissimo piano layer that’s integral to the instrument’s expressive abilities. Would have expanded the musical powers of CinePiano considerably. In deciding not to do so, they lowered the ceiling of the instrument’s timbral range. Why? And instead, there’s this almost grotesque, very uneven and inconsistent sounding “ultra fff” layer which, for most of the notes, not only sounds very disconnected from the other dynamics layers, but also has, due to its unevenness, very little use on its own in the context of convincing piano emulation. 

I just don’t get the thinking behind the decision, that’s all. 

And the reason I might seem disproportionately frustrated about this, is because, amidst the unpleasant harpsichordish noises, that fff layer also contains a handful of excellent fff samples. (A rare thing in sampled pianos.) It’s those samples that make me think: if only the entire fff layer had samples of that quality and character, this would have a been an outstanding sampled Steinway.

_


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## muadgil

re-peat said:


> Muadgil,
> 
> In Kontakt, click the wrench (top left button) and insert an 'Inverter' (Instrument InsertFX > Utilities > Inverter) into the empty InsertEffects slot (second one from the right, between the 'SGEQ' and the 'Sends' slots) and enable L/R Swap.
> 
> Simpler still (or the only solution if you're using CinePiano in KontaktPlayer): in your DAW, insert a plugin after Kontakt that does L/R swapping. In Logic, for example, the Gain plugin has an L/R swap button. I'm sure other DAWS also have a plugin with which to achieve the same thing.
> 
> __


Perfect solutions! Thanks lot for this 
(I really need to improve my logic/kontakt skills...)


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## SupremeFist

re-peat said:


> I guess I’ll have to. But I happen to be the kind of piano player who, when appropriate, likes to visit and exploit the dynamic extremes of the instrument, so the absence of fff will be a lingering disappointment.
> 
> And I remain of the opinion that it’s a bit of a pity that they didn’t make this fff layer a bona fide fortissimo piano layer that’s integral to the instrument’s expressive abilities. Would have expanded the musical powers of CinePiano considerably. In deciding not to do so, they lowered the ceiling of the instrument’s timbral range. Why? And instead, there’s this almost grotesque, very uneven and inconsistent sounding “ultra fff” layer which, for most of the notes, not only sounds very disconnected from the other dynamics layers, but also has, due to its unevenness, very little use on its own in the context of convincing piano emulation.
> 
> I just don’t get the thinking behind the decision, that’s all.
> 
> And the reason I might seem disproportionately frustrated about this, is because, amidst the unpleasant harpsichordish noises, that fff layer also contains a handful of excellent fff samples. (A rare thing in sampled pianos.) It’s those samples that make me think: if only the entire fff layer had samples of that quality and character, this would have a been an outstanding sampled Steinway.
> 
> _


Would it help to think of the fff layer as an ffff layer so you don't miss it?  I mean, if you look at the explanation of how they sampled it, it's not a sound you could ever get out of the piano by playing normally… I personally don't find the top velocity of the regular sound without the extra layer to be feeble in any way.


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