# I need advice about something



## hugomorenomusic (May 27, 2012)

I don't know how relevant this is to the 'working industry' board if this gets moved fair enough i just need advice on something. 

I will soon graduate from university and I will be heading in the real world soon. Thing is what i've realised is that this seems to be one of the hardest industries to get a job in. Im taking a year off to find work and get experience just to make the CV look better how ever whats been bothering me a lot is masters degree. My friend has just been accepted by berklee valencia campus (just opened up recently I think) so when i heard about the course scoring for film and tv I thought this course sounded amazing. >8o 

The link is here: 

http://berkleevalencia.org/academic-pro ... deo-games/

From the sounds of it berklee promise a lot of things i.e internship in la, famous composers to do a of seminars and master classes, and rent out the sony scoring stage for students to use for a day (according to my friend who's recently got into berklee) 

whats the catch? *24,000* in euros for a year and a master degree this is what kinda holding me back about the whole thing. 

So this is the question I wanted to ask and ask peoples opinion about all of this cause I just need some advice about it. 

Is getting a master degree going to be worth it for me? The way that I see it is that if I do this in 2013 I can make some contacts there and make it worth while or is it better to keep going with experience and find ways to get a good living out as a composer. 

My course never taught us how to do conducting working with an orchestra this and that etc etc.. 

I'd like to hear from you guys!


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## midphase (May 27, 2012)

hugomorenomusic @ Sun May 27 said:


> Is getting a master degree going to be worth it for me? The way that I see it is that if I do this in 2013 I can make some contacts there and make it worth while or is it better to keep going with experience and find ways to get a good living out as a composer.
> 
> My course never taught us how to do conducting working with an orchestra this and that etc etc.!



I think the answer depends entirely on your financial situation. A few things to keep in mind:

- Nobody will ever hire you because you have a Masters Degree in Music, they will hire you because of other factors. Only exception is if you want to teach or seek a career in the education industry.

- Internships in L.A. from berklee? Don't expect this to be a fast ticket to a meet with Zimmer. They keep asking me if I need interns, and for good reason...they need to somehow fulfill those expectations. Just know that your internship is likely not going to turn into the dream job that you have in mind.

- After you get out of school, you're probably looking at anywhere between 3-10 years before you can expect to "make a living" doing music and nothing else, I'm not quite sure what that means anymore.

- It's nice that you get to conduct a real orchestra at Berklee, just know that in the real world the possibility to work with a real orchestra are few and far between, and if you really need that itch scratched you can just book a couple of hours in Prague and conduct your little heart out (it'll be cheaper).

- USA immigration law is getting ridiculous, just ask around the few around here who have tried to come and work in L.A. Know that a Berklee Masters Degree is not going to make that any easier, nor will a 1 year internship in L.A. make it any easier for you to find a sponsor.

- Most film scoring specific skills can be self taught with practice, analysis, and participating in forum discussions. If you already have a solid music/composition base you can become a good film composer without a film scoring college coursework (ask John Williams).


Ultimately it really all comes down to your financial situation as I said above. If spending the money is something that you can easily weather...go for it! If it means putting yourself into even more debt that you'll have to repay quickly...it can be a great way to ensure that you will absolutely never will work in this industry!


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## José Herring (May 27, 2012)

My advice is always to learn to write and produce music. That is more important than degrees on a wall. That being said, since I started promoting my degrees people take me more seriously. It at least opens the door, whether you get chosen or not is entirely up to different factors.

Any way you slice it, it's a tough businesses. Far too many people and far too little work that pays well enough to survive.

In the end the critical factors are your music and your connections. Connections being far more important.

I spoke to a well known TV composer a while back and he credits his success from a telemarketing job he took back when he couldn't find any music work. He learned from telemarketing that the more people you call the better chance of making a sale.

Not what a budding composer wants to hear. We'd all love the world to discover us for our music. I guess that happens, but far more people are successful just because they've got skills to hustle and sell.


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## rgames (May 27, 2012)

I think Kays pretty much covered the bases.

Only thing I would add is to see who would be willing to pay you to do it. That defines the real value. If other composers think it's worth 24,000 Eu, then let them pay you for it in return for promising to work for them for at least three years or something like that. Or maybe you can get a grant to cover the costs.

That's what engineers, scientists, and mathematicians do. None of them (OK, almost none) pay for their graduate degrees - they're paid for by someone else.

A graduate degree that costs you nothing probably is worth it. A graduate degree that costs you 24,000 Eu is a tough sell, even outside of music.

rgames


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## Simplesly (May 28, 2012)

Hugo,

For that kind of dough have you looked at the USC film scoring certificate? It's not a master's but I think it is also worth considering. Valencia is really not all that close to LA and there's something to be said about being close to the action, so to speak. Also, I don't know too many people who haven't had at least a few doors opened from doing the USC program... You could also take UCLA film scoring extensions courses - note I said 'extensions' - a UCLA masters will give you a great music education, it's just not geared toward film scoring.


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## Mike Greene (May 28, 2012)

There's some really solid advice in this thread.

I don't have much to add, other than to point out that schools don't offer programs because there's a shortage of people with the skills they teach, they offer programs because there are people willing to pay for that education.

I hate to sound so cynical, but in the music business, it's especially true. The number of new people who will ultimately make a living in this business is tiny. But the number who *want* to make a living at it is huge, so schools will happily take their money to teach them the skills.

Don't get me wrong, it's probably a great program and if you have the money (comfortably,) it's well worth considering. But all of what the guys above me said is true.


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## MacQ (May 28, 2012)

Unfortunately as we all know there's no quick "turnkey" solution to success in this business. I think these kinds of programs play to the naivete of those who enroll. Also, I think those who enroll are often on someone else's dime (a parent or relative). There's an "audio engineering" course being promoted by a studio here in town, and I've known a bunch of people who dropped $8,000 for a 3-month program that doesn't really teach them anything of value that couldn't be had by pouring over the back-catalog of Sound on Sound magazine's editorials: http://www.soundonsound.com/AllIssues.php

€24,000 can go a LONG way to buy you gear, software, advertising, business travel ... there's just a lot more value to be had with wise investment and self-study, I think. At least, that's the way I went, and I haven't regretted that decision. 

If you want to take a course that will help your career, consider a course on business and marketing. For every "lucked into it" success story there are a hundred "worked my ass off building brand awareness" success stories. Treat the music business like any other business and success will follow in time. It's not about music, it's about people. Remember that and you'll be fine.

By way of an anecdote, I have a composer friend who spends more on client-entertainment in a year than just about any other business-related expense. People hire their friends, and he keeps himself employed by being a friend to all of his clients. Things like "how are your kids ... they must be what, 5 and 7?" can REALLY pay forward. Being detail oriented will make your clients think you really care about them and their daily struggle (even if you don't). And consequently, they're both more likely to hire you and less likely to fire you. This is a common technique in all business, and it's especially important in the entertainment business, where a bridge burned might actually have been the bridge to a whole swathe of people connected to your disgruntled client (and who might not hire you based on his or her experience with you).

Be a nice person and save that money. 

~Stu


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## mark812 (May 28, 2012)

Berklee is a top-notch college. I don't have 24,000 €, but I prefer their Certificate concept over degrees anyway. 

Their online courses and certificate program are also fantastic - I'd recommend Ben Newhouse's courses (Orchestration 1 & 2, Music composition for Film & TV). Ben is a great instructor and materials are superbly written. Also, Music composition course is around 75% about in-depth analysis of John Williams' scores.


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## jleckie (May 28, 2012)

Eh-take your 24000-make a movie and score it. 

There-NOW your a film composer (WITH your first IMDB credit as a bonus)


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## midphase (May 28, 2012)

Jay is not too far off from where the industry is really heading to IMHO.


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## Blackster (May 28, 2012)

If I were you I would do this: I would not take the course. Instead I would find a personal mentor who has achieved what you are looking for. In order to get work you need to get in touch with real people, real clients, real fellows, and not with teachers from University who don't work in the business as a composer. 

As some people said before, it's not about any degrees (although those build up your confidence). Another important fact is that nowadays it's not so much about the notes but about the productions. Learn how to make a production sound like a million dollars  ... and I'm not talking about that big huge trailer sound but simple sound quality. I've bought the soundtrack "The best exotic marigold hotel" from Thomas Newman a few days ago, that would be a perfect example. 

Anyway, I didn't meant to talk about mixing skills too much but bottom line is: the better you are prepared to deliver a great product the easier it will be to find work (whether or not this is the course you have to decide alone).


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## rgames (May 28, 2012)

jleckie @ Mon May 28 said:


> Eh-take your 24000-make a movie and score it.


Love it!

Seriously - that's probably a better use of the cash.


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## hugomorenomusic (May 28, 2012)

Now see this is what i was looking for! Actual advice! Theres a lot of good advice and i appreciate people taking there time to answer it. Thanks guys really appreciate it.

Just on the USC note

USC I have checked out it is a great program but thats twice as expensive and they DO NOT offer finical aid this is another thing i was gonna say is that I haven't got the money for this programs I was considering doing a course like berklee to get a daily job and save up but thanks to you guys i've made my mind up  

Nice one team!


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