# What Synth should I add to my wish list?



## JimDiGritz (Aug 28, 2022)

I'm trying my best to not geek out on lot's of synth plugins.

I've invested in Pigments, Novum and also have bought a few preset packs for Vital. I'm reasonably good at sound design with these 3, although am definitely not an expert.

Are there any other must-have synths that do things that the above just really can't?

I'm not particularly interested in faithfully reproducing any vintage synths, and am mostly working on cinematic stuff.

Omnisphere is the gorilla in the room but I've never pulled the trigger due to the price.

I keep seeing Newfangled Audio's Generate being mentioned for immense cinematic stuff.

I'm not looking for a needless GAS buy, rather I'm just wondering if Generate, Dune, Zebra or something else will be able to do things that are nearly impossible to achieve with the above.


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## mholloway (Aug 28, 2022)

Sounds much more like GAS than an actual need or passion for a piece of gear, frankly. What synth *should* you add to your wishlist? The one that is so fascinating, inspiring and exciting to you that you'd never need to ask an internet forum to validate your interest in it...


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## JimDiGritz (Aug 28, 2022)

mholloway said:


> Sounds like GAS over need or true desire / passion about a piece of gear, frankly. What synth *should* you add to your wishlist? The one that is so fascinating, inspiring and exciting to you that you'd never need to ask an internet forum to confirm your interest in it...


I'm inspired and fascinated by dozens of Synth sounds I hear all the time from actual hardware, through to Omnisphere as well as $20 bargains.. my question is is there anything really obvious that I CAN'T achieve with the three synths mentioned?

What I'm trying to avoid is having 732 synths and using them each for just one preset when I could potentially get 99.9% of the sounds from a handful of synths.

This is quite different from the sample library world where they are either doing the same thing (Legato Cello) or very different (Childrens Choir vs Shouty Viking War Chanting).


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## doctoremmet (Aug 28, 2022)

What type of synthesis has your fancy?

What types of sounds do you currently miss?

Generate is cool. Maybe download the free mono version Pendulate first? To see if the Westcoast synthesis paradigm is to your liking?


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## doctoremmet (Aug 28, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> my question is is there anything really obvious that I CAN'T achieve with the three synths mentioned?


Well, you have subtractive, wavetable, sample based synthesis and granular synthesis covered. Pigments even does a bit of additive nowadays.

What about a more modular approach? Phase Plant could be just the thing. It also does FM well. There’s also Falcon of course. Or synths like Softube Modular, Voltage Modular, VCV Rack etc. - or maybe you already have REAKTOR?

Or a pure FM synth, if the sound character suits you. Not part of your current arsenal.

And there’s the whole physical modelling realm. If you have Reason Lite or Intro (or fancy buying that second hand for about $10-20), Reason Studios have Friktion on sale for $49. Now that is a synth that can do stuff your current batch surely can’t. (For an extra $49 you could get their Algoritm which is one of the best FM synths out there). I also recommend the AAS Chromaphone 3 and Expressive E’s Imagine synthesizers, Madronalabs Kaivo and Rhizomatic Plasmonic.

Just a few ideas…


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## xepocal (Aug 28, 2022)

I'd just take my favourite presets from Pigments & Novum and recreate them in Vital. It's a great opportunity to really learn synth patch design in depth and will make you understand why you don't need more synths!


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## JimDiGritz (Aug 28, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> What type of synthesis has your fancy?
> 
> What types of sounds do you currently miss?
> 
> Generate is cool. Maybe download the free mono version Pendulate first? To see if the Westcoast synthesis paradigm is to your liking?


I'm not deep enough into synth stuff to really know the difference between Westcoast synthesis and Late Berlin Glitch FM additive fusion!!  

I'm not actively buying now, but I guess I'm trying to identify deep-discount sale targets to round out a solid "do 99%" synth selection.



doctoremmet said:


> Well, you have subtractive, wavetable, sample based synthesis and granular synthesis covered. Pigments even does a bit of additive nowadays.
> 
> What about a more modular approach? Phase Plant could be just the thing. It also does FM well. There’s also Falcon of course. Or synths like Softube Modular, Voltage Modular, VCV Rack etc.
> 
> ...



Thanks! PhasePlant is another name that comes up often. I guess my question is if "Synth X" comes up with a huge discount next month, sure I might love the sounds that I hear in the demo but are they sounds that I would be able to simply recreate in my existing synths with some practice and experimentation?


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## JimDiGritz (Aug 28, 2022)

Maybe my passive aggressive question is: "Surely all synths are practically identical and I'd just be buying different UI's??!!"

That's tongue in cheek by the way.. sarcasm doesn't always translate!


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## KEM (Aug 28, 2022)

ZebraHZ, Dune 3, and Knifonium are my favorites


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## doctoremmet (Aug 28, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> I might love the sounds that I hear in the demo but are they sounds that I would be able to simply recreate in my existing synths with some practice and experimentation?


Oh for sure. Look, I’m a synth addict and I can tell you: honestly, with Pigments, Vital and the most excellent Novum you can cover a LOT of ground, if not all of it - in terms of synth patches / genres.

Maybe that truly digital FM sound character is not at your disposal, but most people outside of “synthwave” and the harder EDM genres (neurofunk, dnb, etc.) and cheezy 1980s cover bands can perfectly live without it.

In other words: Phase Plant won’t offer you much diversity in terms of breadth of sounds.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 28, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Surely all synths are practically identical and I'd just be buying different UI's??!!


I’d not call it that. But I may feel that way about a 2022 chinese Tele knockoff versus a 1964 Les Paul. They all sound the same right?


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## JimDiGritz (Aug 28, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Oh for sure. Look, I’m a synth addict and I can tell you: honestly, with Pigments, Vital and the most excellent Novum you can cover a LOT of ground, if not all of it - in terms of synth patches / genres.
> 
> Maybe that truly digital FM sound character is not at your disposal, but most people outside of “synthwave” and the harder EDM genres (neurofunk, dnb, etc.) and cheezy 1980s cover bands can perfectly live without it.
> 
> In other words: Phase Plant won’t offer you much diversity in terms of breadth of sounds.


Thanks, this is really exactly the insight I was looking for!

I don't want more synths (yet!), but I'd feel silly if I missed a huge sale on a synth that filled a genuine sonic gap.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 28, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Thanks, this is really exactly the insight I was looking for!
> 
> I don't want more synths (yet!), but I'd feel silly if I missed a huge sale on a synth that filled a genuine sonic gap.


In terms of sonics… many VI Controllers adore Omnisphere. I get why. Like Kontakt it has become a platform for synth sounds and sampled sounds. So, as a platform, given a good enough deal, it could maybe benefit you in some way.

Also, look out for (rare!) sales on all the U-he synths, especially Zebra 2 and Bazille. In terms of sheer sonic quality (literally) those are the best of the bunch. But -again- I THINK I hear the difference in quality… but I have also failed many A/B tests. So a lot of it may also be cork sniffing, snobbery, romanticism or what-have-you-ism


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## JimDiGritz (Aug 28, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I’d not call it that. But I may feel that way about a 2022 chinese Tele knockoff versus a 1964 Les Paul. They all sound the same right?


Hehe, ahem well. As someone who has built dozens of electric guitars and bought sold dozens more I can honestly say that electric guitars, unless played through a pristine amp like a HiWatt 50, do sound very, very similar. The biggest difference is the pickup location (bridge vs neck etc). Once you add drive and push it though a Randall I've heard Telecasters that chug....

Of course the cork sniffing 'experts' will talk about tone wood and hand wound pickups but..


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## doctoremmet (Aug 28, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Hehe, ahem well. As someone who has built dozens of electric guitars and bought sold dozens more I can honestly say that electric guitars, unless played through a pristine amp like a HiWatt 50, do sound very, very similar. The biggest difference is the pickup location. Once you add drive and push it though a Randall I've heard Telecasters that chug....
> 
> Of course the cork sniffing 'experts' will talk about tone wood and hand wound pickups but..


Seems like we are in agreement. Cool!


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## jbuhler (Aug 28, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I’d not call it that. But I may feel that way about a 2022 chinese Tele knockoff versus a 1964 Les Paul. They all sound the same right?


I mean it does seem that up to a certain skill level that all synths of a particular type (subtractive, wave table, FM, etc) differ primarily in the UI and perhaps included effects, so when you are starting out and likely through an intermediate phase they are all virtually identical. The UI is not unimportant because of the way it will optimize certain work flows, but the basic capabilities of the instruments are all very similar, much more so than the Les Paul and the knockoff, or so it would seem. Or maybe the situation with the guitars is indeed similar: the difference between them only becomes noticeable after one has reached a certain level of technique. 

In any case to become something other than a preset user and light tweaker of presets, I’m finding I have to regress to a state where I think of all subtractive synthesis or all wave table synthesis, say, as more or less identical so I can hone in on mastering the basic elements, and adding a bunch of different synths of the same type seems to confuse the situation. I’m presuming that when I pass through this learning phase that at some point I’ll come to understand that the difference between the various synths within a type has to do with more than just workflow but gets at something more essential. Or maybe the basic difference really does just stem from what the work flows optimize rather than the subtle differences in the sounds of the oscillators and such.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 28, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Or maybe the basic difference really does just stem from what the work flows optimize rather than the subtle differences in the sounds of the oscillators and such.


Yes. A LOT of it is workflow. But I wouldn’t say that all synths are largely the same bar some subtle differences. Modulation options are vastly different, oscillators can sound drastically different from synth to synth, etc. Much like how SCS differs from VSL Elite Strings.


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## proxima (Aug 28, 2022)

Do you connect well with one of your synths? It's like Marie Kondo: find the synth(s) that bring you joy and learn them as well as you can. It's easier to learn synths deeply when you enjoy how they work/look, and more synths spreads that learning time more thinly. 

That said, I have way too many synths. I'm trying to treat most of them as preset players/tweak and only learn a few more deeply (at least for now). Fwiw, Omnisphere and Pigments clicked best with me, and modular hasn't yet.


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## jbuhler (Aug 28, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Yes. A LOT of it is workflow. But I wouldn’t say that all synths are largely the same bar some subtle differences. Modulation options are vastly different, oscillators can sound drastically different from synth to synth, etc. Much like how SCS differs from VSL Elite Strings.


I don’t dispute that they sound different (maybe) but that when you are learning one type of synthesis you almost have to proceed as though they are the same. Like when you are first working with strings, you will treat them as strings, rather than SCS or Elite, and indeed more or less ignore that they are SCS or Elite. It’s hard to hone in on the SCSness of the sound until you’ve passed through an understanding of basic stringness. Of course the analogy is not straightforward because SCS versus Elite often feels like it is a difference in presets more than a difference of synths of a type. 

Difference in modulation management seems tied to UI and workflow optimization. Most synths of a type seem to share a broad range of modulation capabilities, but the workflows make it easier to do some things compared to other things. At the edges there are capabilities that one synth of a type can do that another might not be able to do, but these are also things that a beginning or even intermediate level user likely won’t be bothering much with. They may even be a distraction.

So I don’t want to claim that there is no difference in the synths or that a patch made in one synth and replicated in another will necessarily sound indistinguishable. But rather that I’m learning to work in particular mode of synthesis it is often convenient to presume that any differences don’t matter all that much. At some point, obviously, that ceases to be the case, and I imagine at some point I will start to attend to the differences much as we do with SCS and Elite. And it’s not like I don’t hear a difference in synth presets and know which I like and which I don’t. It’s more that it’s hard for me to say whether what I’m liking is in the preset or the synth.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 28, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I don’t dispute that they sound different (maybe) but that when you are learning one type of synthesis you almost have to proceed as though they are the same. Like when you are first working with strings, you will treat them as strings, rather than SCS or Elite, and indeed more or less ignore that they are SCS or Elite. It’s hard to hone in on the SCSness of the sound until you’ve passed through an understanding of basic stringness. Of course the analogy is not straightforward because SCS versus Elite often feels like it is a difference in presets more than a difference of synths of a type.
> 
> Difference in modulation management seems tied to UI and workflow optimization. Most synths of a type seem to share a broad range of modulation capabilities, but the workflows make it easier to do some things compared to other things. At the edges there are capabilities that one synth of a type can do that another might not be able to do, but these are also things that a beginning or even intermediate level user likely won’t be bothering much with. They may even be a distraction.
> 
> So I don’t want to claim that there is no difference in the synths or that a patch made in one synth and replicated in another will necessarily sound indistinguishable. But rather that I’m learning to work in particular mode of synthesis it is often convenient to presume that any differences don’t matter all that much. At some point, obviously, that ceases to be the case, and I imagine at some point I will start to attend to the differences much as we do with SCS and Elite. And it’s not like I don’t hear a difference in synth presets and know which I like and which I don’t. It’s more that it’s hard for me to say whether what I’m liking is in the preset or the synth.


We are in agreement! I totally get what you're saying. The analogy works.


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## Pier (Aug 28, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Generate, Dune, Zebra or something else will be able to do things that are nearly impossible to achieve with the above.


Yes.

Pigments and Vital are quite vanilla sounding compared to those three. I mean, of course you can create basses and pads with any synth, but they each have their own sound signature. In terms of features it really depends what you want to accomplish.

Obviously I'd say get Zebra because I'm a Zebra fanboi but I've used and owned all three. This is my attempt at objectively comparing them from 10,000 feet:

Zebra is the most classic sounding of all three and the most flexible. The filters and oscs are top notch but the effects are getting a bit old. Getting Zebra will give you access to ZebraHZ which basically is Zebra + Diva filters. And if you get ZebraHZ you will get Zebra 3 for free when it comes out (presumably next year). Personally I think it has the best workflow and the amazing comb filters which I haven't found anywhere else. Finally, there are a lot of cinematic third party libraries for Zebra. Shameless plug!

Generate is quite unique since it uses a novel chaotic oscillator and west coast type of synthesis by adding harmonics with saturation. It sounds a-ma-zing but consumes a lot of CPU and is the less flexible of all, by far. The workflow is good and straightforward. The con is that it's a very simple fixed architecture synth. As novel as the sound generation is, I got bored of it pretty quickly. There are almost no third party libraries.

Dune has a more modern sound compared to Zebra. A lot of people say it has a Virus-like sound and it's used a lot for trance, progressive house, etc. You won't find much cinematic content for it. The DSP programming is fantastic (filter, effects, etc) since Richard at Synapse is a DSP genius. As you probably know it can load samples which the other two don't. Another benefit is the audio rate modulation. Although it has a voicing/layering system, it's not super flexible and IMO the workflow is very wonky. I find the UI/UX to be the worse of all three.

You should also look into PhasePlant like the Doctor recommended.

Honestly, download the demos and play a bit with each. You'll see pretty quickly which ones click with you or not.


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## KEM (Aug 28, 2022)

As far as workflow I like Zebra the most, but I also know it better than anything else. Ultimately what’s most important is what you find most inspiring, at this point the sound itself is a bit irrelevant as they all sound objectively “good”, so it’s just about finding which one you have the most fun with. For me that’s definitely Zebra


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## jbuhler (Aug 28, 2022)

KEM said:


> As far as workflow I like Zebra the most, but I also know it better than anything else. Ultimately what’s most important is what you find most inspiring, at this point the sound itself is a bit irrelevant as they all sound objectively “good”, so it’s just about finding which one you have the most fun with. For me that’s definitely Zebra


I love Zebra as a preset player—lots of great third party presets are available for it—but I've had a devil of a time cracking how to work in it myself. I've only made progress by working in other synths. Pigments has been most useful to me, but also working with hardware synths and the tactile aspect of it has also made for more progress.


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## carlc (Aug 28, 2022)

I find Newfangled Audio's product naming to be a bit too clever. They have Generate and Pendulate (synths), Equivocate (EQ), Punctuate (transient shaper), and Saturate (yes, saturation). They even have a mastering tool. I wonder what conversations happened in their marketing department when they were naming that product. Apparently, they settled on "Elevate"


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## Technostica (Aug 28, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I’d not call it that. But I may feel that way about a 2022 chinese Tele knockoff versus a 1964 Les Paul. They all sound the same right?


The odd thing is, the Les Paul was out of production between 61 and 68, which seems strange now considering how iconic it is.
Although, I hear that it’s not played so much by the younger players these days; it’s more of a dads guitar!

Back to synths, at least the soft versions are slightly more affordable than a 59 Les Paul which are six figures.
Plus you can demo them usually.


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## dunamisstudio (Aug 28, 2022)

Leaving out hardware, and hardware emulations, I think Pigments would do most that I needed. Novum is cool but I don't have it to speak on it.

I would say like others have, check out Zebra. Also check out Soundpaint.

@Pier I didn't know that about Dune, I'll have to check it out.


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## Tusker (Aug 28, 2022)

Just a newbie in terms of orchestral programming but I know my way around synths a bit.

Everyone has given you great advice. I’d start by saying there are no “must have” synths if you are using them as rhythmic beds and to “garnish” an orchestral/hybrid arrangement. If you wish to have the synths peak out more and take a more central role, you could add Zebra, Omnisphere, Phaseplant etc. i gather that you are not primarily a synth programmer, so a good set of (cinematic friendly?) presets is important I think. Many of these synths have downloadable demos, so why not try some of them out. 

For me, even synths with similar architectures can have different sonic personalities and you might click with one and not another. It’s a bit like considering two orchestral libraries with the same articulations but one of them seems like a collection of sounds and the other makes you want to express yourself with it. All the best.


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## Tusker (Aug 28, 2022)

I forgot to add that there are a list of “character” synths to consider in addition to the general purpose synths we have been discussing. While the general purpose synths may emulate certain “character” circuits, they tend to be more vanilla. I’d say that “Generate” is a character synth but so too are several high quality synths which replicate particular synths. Synths like The Legend, Repro 5, and Generate, can complement the more bread and butter synths you already have.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 28, 2022)

DIVA


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## Paj (Aug 28, 2022)

While you're figuring out what to buy next:



Paj
8^)


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## Nico5 (Aug 28, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> The biggest difference is the pickup location


I'd probably also add:
... single coil vs humbuckers vs piezo? Also many (most?) decent guitars put different pickups in the neck vs. the bridge position, thus emphasizing the location difference.
... flat wound vs coated vs. round wound strings - also because they often make you play differently.

*Back to synths *- here are some of my subjective favorites:

For something modern and with a bit different metaphors: Plasmonic and Generate
For getting closer to experiencing classic synth history and with it examples of different types of synthesis: Arturia V Collection (rather good value during sales)
For glitch, I'd look at Plogue and Glitchmachines.
For a much deeper understanding and exploration of synthesis: one of the many great modulars. There are many outstanding choices from Reaktor to Hyperion to MSoundFactory and many others.
Or build a meta-synth of synths with PluginGuru's Unify or Plogue's Bidule or some other chaining tool.
And to come full circle with the guitar:

Remove all the FX off your current (or any other) synths, and assemble your own FX chain (analogous to a guitar-style pedal-board) to make each synth more your own, unique sound. As a side benefit, taking the FX off synths exposes mediocre synth engines and highlights great synth engines. Because, just like with electric guitar, a lot of sonic signature on modern synths may actually come from the FX chain, more so than the instrument going into the FX chain.


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## kgdrum (Aug 28, 2022)

U-he U-he U-he………
take your pick.
Zebra and ZHZ
Diva
Repro
Bazille

Did I mention U-he?


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## Cyberic (Aug 28, 2022)

Reason has potent synths and can be used as a DAW plugin. They have a lot to offer therefore Reason could go on a wishlist.

Reason synths (and other instruments)


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## José Herring (Aug 28, 2022)

I've been getting into synth platforms lately. Full on synth creative environments. 
I've been a Reason fan for a while and now they offer the entire Reason Rack in a vst3 plugin that you can use in any DAW. 
MSoundfactory is another one. At first and even 2 years after getting it I was overwhelmed learning it. But, I've found now that it's actually easier to use than any other synths because you have to learn how to just build the components of the synth. 
The main advantage that I've found with what I call "synth platforms" is that they offer, a wealth of synthesis, the best in FX, the ability to modulate anything anywhere and instead of buying 10 synths for $100-$300 each, you buy once synth platform for a few hundred bucks. 
I mean Reason alone gives you great Granular synths, Wavetable synths, FM synthes and a Combinator that lets you combine any of that into one synth. 
MSoundfactory gives you everything plus all of Melda's great FX. 
Another full on platform is PHASEPLANT!!!!


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## osterdamus (Aug 28, 2022)

I'm kind of in the same spot, I'd like to figure out what synth is should pour some energy into and bet on as a workhorse. I know enough synth basics to tweak patches, but I'm not truly well versed in all the different types of synthesis or the many different platforms. Even if I had the time to download the free versions myself, I honestly wouldn't be in the position to make a good informed choice. It is what it is... so I'd like to pose this question from the perspective of usage over technology:

Which synth has the range to support (1) modern pop remixes with stabby chords, (2) brooding investigative drones, (3) hard stabbing cinematic hits, and has a large community (many developers + support forum)? 

Not saying all these requirements have to be fulfilled by stock patches that come with the synth, I'll happily buy from 3rd party developers if needed. It importance for me is that the synth / developers has range.

Does that make sense?


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## Solarsentinel (Aug 29, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> I'm trying my best to not geek out on lot's of synth plugins.
> 
> I've invested in Pigments, Novum and also have bought a few preset packs for Vital. I'm reasonably good at sound design with these 3, although am definitely not an expert.
> 
> ...


With Pigments and Vital you can produce any sound of the register. The only thing, i think, you can't produce well is the low end. In this case, Generate can produce a lot of growly low textures with kind analog feeling.
But as you mentionned before, the best for all that stuff is omnisphere. And when you double it with Trilian you have access to all the low stuff for basses. but it's a price for sure...


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## doctoremmet (Aug 29, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I mean Reason alone gives you great Granular synths, Wavetable synths, FM synthes and a Combinator that lets you combine any of that into one synth.
> MSoundfactory gives you everything plus all of Melda's great FX.
> Another full on platform is PHASEPLANT!!!!


God, I love this guy...


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## JimDiGritz (Aug 29, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> I'm kind of in the same spot, I'd like to figure out what synth is should pour some energy into and bet on as a workhorse. I know enough synth basics to tweak patches, but I'm not truly well versed in all the different types of synthesis or the many different platforms. Even if I had the time to download the free versions myself, I honestly wouldn't be in the position to make a good informed choice. It is what it is... so I'd like to pose this question from the perspective of usage over technology:
> 
> Which synth has the range to support (1) modern pop remixes with stabby chords, (2) brooding investigative drones, (3) hard stabbing cinematic hits, and has a large community (many developers + support forum)?
> 
> ...


Thanks @osterdamus - you've explained that far better than I did!!

In retrospect I would probably have been best suited to investing in Omnisphere - learning it and investing in more presets (like the Unknown) over time. But starting out in music production, _£300+_* **EDIT just rechecked - £500!!!!*** for one (dated looking and seemingly overly hyped) synth seemed excessive.

However I'm already $100's into the other synths I mentioned above and I think I have all my synth bases (and basses!) covered but if PhasePlant, Generate, Serum, Zebra really adds something unique I'll add it to my BF wish list.

I really, really want to avoid adding dozens of cheap/free synths to my plugin list since I already have Tyrell, Podolski, Triple Cheese, Odin, Helm, Crystal and many others hiding in my plugin list and in terms of workflow whenever I want to get a suitable synth sound I can already spend way too long opening random synths and re-learning their UI or hunting for 'that' preset that 'may' have been in that synth..


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## Reid Rosefelt (Aug 29, 2022)

Omnisphere is NOT dated and overhyped. It towers over the other recommendations. If you stick with composing you will buy it someday. Then you will realize—as I did—that it would have saved you a ton of money if you had bought it sooner. 

If you can’t afford it now, use a payment plan to buy it.


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## JimDiGritz (Aug 29, 2022)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> *Omnisphere is NOT dated and overhyped.* It towers over the other recommendations. If you stick with composing you will buy it someday. Then you will realize—as I did—that it would have saved you a ton of money if you had bought it sooner.
> 
> If you can’t afford it now, use a payment plan to buy it.


Agreed, that was just my initial opinion when starting out shopping for a synth! It does look very dated however and it's used by every composer - so my natural contrarian nature wanted to find another route.

But yes, you're right it's a powerhouse and popular for a reason. 

An equivalent would be Damage 2. I spent a lot buying cheap cinematic percussion libraries and downloading tons of drum freebies, after caving in during the recent sale I now realize why everyone uses Damage...!


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## spektralisk (Aug 29, 2022)

Check out Abyss as well.


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## JimDiGritz (Aug 29, 2022)

spektralisk said:


> Check out Abyss as well.


Thanks @spektralisk - btw am loving your Pigments presets!


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## spektralisk (Aug 29, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Thanks @spektralisk - btw am loving your Pigments presets!


Thank you!


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## Markrs (Aug 29, 2022)

xepocal said:


> I'd just take my favourite presets from Pigments & Novum and recreate them in Vital. It's a great opportunity to really learn synth patch design in depth and will make you understand why you don't need more synths!


I love Vital, but I can't see how vital can recreate Novum does with granular synthesis, or to be honest excluding wavetable and subtractive synthesis what Pigments can do.


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## osterdamus (Aug 29, 2022)

Glad I can help! 😆


JimDiGritz said:


> In retrospect I would probably have been best suited to investing in Omnisphere - learning it and investing in more presets (like the Unknown) over time. But starting out in music production, _£300+_* **EDIT just rechecked - £500!!!!*** for one (dated looking and seemingly overly hyped) synth seemed excessive.


I kind of agree, interface and aesthetics matter. However, the times I've reacted very positively on the use of synth in a track by peers and asked which synth they used, Omnisphere has always been the answer. Maybe it is...


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## Markrs (Aug 29, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> In retrospect I would probably have been best suited to investing in Omnisphere - learning it and investing in more presets (like the Unknown) over time. But starting out in music production, _£300+_* **EDIT just rechecked - £500!!!!*** for one (dated looking and seemingly overly hyped) synth seemed excessive.


I do see Omnisphere regularly sold on places like Knobcloud, KVR and here for around $250 - $300 (they are currently over $400 on knowbcloud at the moment, which is very high). Recently people have been snapping them up when they go on sale. If you buy second-hand you can't then resell it yourself.

You can buy it from many reputable retailers in the UK for £300-£320








Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5 Power Synth


Omnisphere 2 is the flagship synthesizer of Spectrasonics - an instrument of extraordinary power and versatility. Buy from pro audio specialists with over 20 years experience, Free Shipping in the UK.




studiocare.com


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## osterdamus (Aug 29, 2022)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> Omnisphere is NOT dated and overhyped. It towers over the other recommendations. If you stick with composing you will buy it someday. Then you will realize—as I did—that it would have saved you a ton of money if you had bought it sooner.
> 
> If you can’t afford it now, use a payment plan to buy it.


Would you say it has the range I (possibly unrealistically) wish for here? 

That is, it has the range to support modern pop remixes with stabby chords, brooding investigative drones, hard stabbing cinematic hits, and has a large community (many developers + support forum)?


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## Markrs (Aug 29, 2022)

When you look at the patches of those that are masters of Omnisphere (The Unfinished, Luftrum, Tom Wolfe, etc) you see that there is little it can't do very well.


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## Markrs (Aug 29, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> Would you say it has the range I (possibly unrealistically) wish for here?
> 
> That is, it has the range to support modern pop remixes with stabby chords, brooding investigative drones, hard stabbing cinematic hits, and has a large community (many developers + support forum)?


It can do all of that. Omnisphere is massively used in modern production world as well as Cinematic, as well as Synthwave. It really is a powerhouse synth. Just explore some of the 3rd party presets


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## osterdamus (Aug 29, 2022)

Markrs said:


> When you look at the patches of those that are masters of Omnisphere (The Unfinished, Luftrum, Tom Wolfe, etc) you see that there is little it can't do very well.





Markrs said:


> It can do all of that. Omnisphere is massively used in modern production world as well as Cinematic, as well as Synthwave. It really is a powerhouse synth. Just explore some of the 3rd party presets


Thanks! I'll have a look at those (I already know The Unfinished). 

The price for Omnisphere a bit on the spicy side (although @Reid Rosefelt has a valid point), but I don't mind so much if it can become a workhorse.


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## osterdamus (Aug 29, 2022)

One quick follow-up question @Markrs : Omnisphere seemingly comes with some 14K patches. Buying from 3rd party developers will add to that. Is there some sort of "patch management" support in Omnisphere (notes or favorites)? Or is that a concern meant to be handled outside the synth (user instrument tracks in Logic, for example?)


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## José Herring (Aug 29, 2022)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> Omnisphere is NOT dated and overhyped. It towers over the other recommendations. If you stick with composing you will buy it someday. Then you will realize—as I did—that it would have saved you a ton of money if you had bought it sooner.
> 
> If you can’t afford it now, use a payment plan to buy it.


"Towers over the other recommendations" is simply not true. I can't even understand why one would make such a general statement. Have you even tried synths like Generate, Phaseplant or MSoundfactory? I mean if all you do is tweak presents then I can see your point but if you program from scratch, then the statement you made is just an utterly false opinion that will only mislead other people that don't know.


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## Markrs (Aug 29, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> One quick follow-up question @Markrs : Omnisphere seemingly comes with some 14K patches. Buying from 3rd party developers will add to that. Is there some sort of "patch management" support in Omnisphere (notes or favorites)? Or is that a concern meant to be handled outside the synth (user instrument tracks in Logic, for example?)


Yes it has very good patch management. It uses metadata to categorise them, you can favourite patches and you can also get it to find similar patches to a patch you like.


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## Markrs (Aug 29, 2022)

José Herring said:


> "Towers over the other recommendations" is simply not true. I can't even understand why one would make such a general statement. Have you even tried synths like Generate, Phaseplant or MSoundfactory? I mean if all you do is tweak presents then I can see your point but if you program from scratch, then the statement you made is just an utterly false opinion that will only mislead other people that don't know.


This is a fair point. Omnisphere is an excellent bread-and-butter synth, it can do a lot of the common things that people want to do. In my view it can't replace MSoundFactory or Falcon, Phaseplant or Modular for things like FM and modulation. It can't do Buchla westcoast like Generate, it can't do spectrum granular like Novum.

I think Omnisphere is a great all purpose synth, but there are plenty of reasons to have either other powerhouse synths or specialist synths.


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## Tusker (Aug 29, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I think Omnisphere is a great all purpose synth, but there are plenty of reasons to have either other powerhouse synths or specialist synths.


I think that is an important question for the original poster. What does he feel he is missing? It's efficient to focus on a work horse synth or two to begin with, but he already has some capable synths. Vital, Novum and Pigments give him coverage of granular and wavetable manipulation. They'll do your standard VA to some degree. I don't see that he has a lot of FM or physical modeling. There's some next level VA in specialized synths like Diva and The Legend. 

Say he wants a quiet plucked rhythm bed which can open up musically. Pigments has a decent Low Pass Gate but it won't ping like the LPG in Reaktor. A plucked arp in Pigments will be good but one made with the Reaktor LPG will give him more range from damped to ringing. So might a plucked physical model like Reason's Friktion. Or some gnarly FM as in Bazille. Specialization helps give that pluck a more vibrant personality.


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## xepocal (Aug 29, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I love Vital, but I can't see how vital can recreate Novum does with granular synthesis, or to be honest excluding wavetable and subtractive synthesis what Pigments can do.


Not disagreeing, just having a hard time seeing the need for more synths before exhausting the possibilities of the three synths Jim already has. Why start collecting more multi-tools before understanding the limits and capabilities of those you already own


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## MLaudio (Aug 29, 2022)

Ill throw in a little curve ball. Spectral synthesis such DS Thorn and Europa are a ton of fun and yield great results quick. As cool as something like Phase Plant is, i get things i want out of those two much faster and often reach for them first. 

At its current sale price of $24 id check out DS Thorn as the harmonic filter alone creates really cool textures. It can fall into any genre and there is always something a little unique to its sound i like. Really easy to fit in a mix. 

I own Dune 3, Rapid, Hive 2, Phaseplant and a few other big ones, and Thorn is definitely at the top of my most used.


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## JimDiGritz (Aug 29, 2022)

xepocal said:


> Not disagreeing, just having a hard time seeing the need for more synths before exhausting the possibilities of the three synths Jim already has. Why start collecting more multi-tools before understanding the limits and capabilities of those you already own


Thanks - I guess that my workflow is preset tweaking rather than sound design. I don't have the time, skill nor inclination to sound design every synth sound.

It sounds like Omnisphere is the only 'real' answer for me with it's unparalleled breadth of native and 3rd party presets . However aside from the cost I have read that Omnisphere is a CPU killer - I already struggle with Pigments so maybe that £500 will have to wait and go towards my 2022 new PC!!


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## Akoustecx (Aug 29, 2022)

If access to a large numbers of presets to tweak is a priority, then you might want to take a look at Synthmaster 2. It is somewhat divisive, with a lot of dogmatic statements of the "Only synth you'll ever need!" and "Does everything, but none of it well!" liberally sprinkling the internet. The only use case I would turn to it for myself is Vector, as I find the GUI a little unintuitive, though that is due a major update with the iminent(ish?) V3 update. It is hugely capable in the right hands, and the number of preset packs for it are off the charts.
Having said that, my advice would be to get a decent Physical Modelling synth or 2 (Reason Friktion and AAS Chromaphone 3 would be a very solid pairing, and both are available on offer at the moment), and then spend some time getting to know what you have as well as time will allow.
Between Pigments, Friktion and AAS C3, you'll have access to a sonic palette that will cover almost every eventuality.
Don't get overly hung up on what's in your quiver, as synths are just tools, and a master will get better results with an OK tool, than a beginner will with the best of the best. 10,000 hours will get you a lot further with synthesis than £10,000.


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## Paj (Aug 29, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Thanks - I guess that my workflow is preset tweaking rather than sound design. I don't have the time, skill nor inclination to sound design every synth sound.
> 
> It sounds like Omnisphere is the only 'real' answer for me with it's unparalleled breadth of native and 3rd party presets . However aside from the cost I have read that Omnisphere is a CPU killer - I already struggle with Pigments so maybe that £500 will have to wait and go towards my 2022 new PC!!


If tweaking and twerking presets to get new sounds is your thing then you might want to consider a SugarBytes synth: Factory, Aparillo, Obscurium or Cyclop (more or less in that order). Also, check to see if your desired synth has randomization features (not just picking presets but altering parameters---even older NI and AIR Music Tech synths do).

Just a thought.

Paj
8^)


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## AnhrithmonGelasma (Aug 29, 2022)

Akoustecx said:


> If access to a large numbers of presets to tweak is a priority, then you might want to take a look at Synthmaster 2. It is somewhat divisive, with a lot of dogmatic statements of the "Only synth you'll ever need!" and "Does everything, but none of it well!" liberally sprinkling the internet. The only use case I would turn to it for myself is Vector, as I find the GUI a little unintuitive, though that is due a major update with the iminent(ish?) V3 update. It is hugely capable in the right hands, and the number of preset packs for it are off the charts.
> Having said that, my advice would be to get a decent Physical Modelling synth or 2 (Reason Friktion and AAS Chromaphone 3 would be a very solid pairing, and both are available on offer at the moment), and then spend some time getting to know what you have as well as time will allow.
> Between Pigments, Friktion and AAS C3, you'll have access to a sonic palette that will cover almost every eventuality.
> Don't get overly hung up on what's in your quiver, as synths are just tools, and a master will get better results with an OK tool, than a beginner will with the best of the best. 10,000 hours will get you a lot further with synthesis than £10,000.


They've also been basically giving away 2 free Synthmaster 2 preset packs per year in their newsletter (voucher with no minimum spend that generally lets you buy 2 packs). Personally I haven't been using it in the last few years---mainly because as a Seaboard player Roli synths are more convenient for tweaking presets (because they're already set up to work well with the Seaboard's five dimensions). The filters sound nice though. And Synthmaster 3 might be interesting....


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