# Making Custom Keyswitches....



## lexaudio (Jan 20, 2007)

I am having a problem with some KS builds.

1) pasting a group in, it doesn't paste. Each have 44 groups (hard and soft perc).
I copy from the 2nd instrument into the first after I have assigned the KS, but nothing is there.

2) Another - After creating the KS note on 2 instruments(rr), I copy the second one to the 1st. But I only hear some of the notes and not all of them.

Thanks

LEX


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## lexaudio (Jan 20, 2007)

Okay.

It was me.

1) I thought that when you selected a KS, it would show only the range of the KS selcted. It shows the range of everything.

2) the copying was because I didn't have all in the group selected.

So far working great. I discovered the tga backgrounds and can list my KS in the info which is cool.
I also am creating an empty group with the KS note and what it is before I paste the next one in.

It is getting fun. Got all my SI timps in 3 KS's.

Thanks

LEX


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## Dr.Quest (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm not sure if this has been discussed but another forum member and myself chatted about it the other night. At first I couldn't see an advantage in it but now that I've done some experiments it seems pretty cool.
The idea is to imitate the matrix type set up from VSL VI. Now of course you can go the route of this thread and copy and paste groups into one instrument and create a large KSW instrument like the above 3 timp patch. I wondered if there was a quicker way and one that could utilize the 4 sets of Multis that K2 that use.
It's pretty quick to set up.
You load into one 16 group multi all the instruments you want in a KS group. Go into each instrument and select edit all groups and choose a KS to turn it on and a range to turn it off. Do that for each of your instruments in the multi and set each instrument to the same midi channel. 
Now on one track you can KS between all the violin articulations in a 16 instrument Multi
on channel one. Load all the Viola articulation instruments into multi slot 17-32. Set each instrument to the same midi channel (2) and edit for keyswitches etc.
You could set up one K2 instance with 4 string sections running on only 4 midi channels
and it's much quicker then the copy paste group method.
Think of each group of 16 MIDI channels as a Matrix and each instrument as a cell.
Just a thought if anyone is interested.
Cheers,
J


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## Fernando Warez (Jan 26, 2007)

Dr.Quest @ Fri Jan 26 said:


> I'm not sure if this has been discussed but another forum member and myself chatted about it the other night. At first I couldn't see an advantage in it but now that I've done some experiments it seems pretty cool.
> The idea is to imitate the matrix type set up from VSL VI. Now of course you can go the route of this thread and copy and paste groups into one instrument and create a large KSW instrument like the above 3 timp patch. I wondered if there was a quicker way and one that could utilize the 4 sets of Multis that K2 that use.
> It's pretty quick to set up.
> You load into one 16 group multi all the instruments you want in a KS group. Go into each instrument and select edit all groups and choose a KS to turn it on and a range to turn it off. Do that for each of your instruments in the multi and set each instrument to the same midi channel.
> ...



That's interesting Dr., but did you try instruments bank instead? You can have up to 128 articulations in each bank(like a giant KS). In Cubase, if you select program change in the controller view option, you can control which articulation you want to select by drawing a line with line tool. It's very easy in Cubase if you enlarge the control editor view. You aslo have a small window on the right that indicate you where you're at from 0 to 127.

The main advantage of this is that you can loads(128) of articulation on one midi channel. It's the cleanest way to handle loads of articulation IMO. You're project window can be really compact that way(no more scrolling or very little)

Sec: It's much more comfortable to control which articulation you are triggering because, unlike with Keyswitchs, you work horizontaly at all time, the controler editor being right under the piano roll. Plus no more scrolling in the key editor to see your keyswitchs etc... 

And third: It's much easier went comes the time to print your scores because you don't have to delete all those note you've used to trigger your keyswitchs...

You can have a script for every instrument in the bank if you like, which is not so easy in kswitch instruments.

You can move instruments around(drag and drop) very easily. Or delete/load an instrument just as easily.

The only negative i found is that you can only have on type of CC per bank because it will not update if you switch from lets say one X-fade instrument to an other X-fade instrument. But i think you can have other CC instrument like expression, pitch etc. Just so long as you have just one of them. There may be a way to have more than one of the same CC but I'm not sure how to that yet...(maybe one could update the CC in the list editor, i don't know?..will look into that later) 

Making Instrument bank is very easy in K2, just go in the load/save menu, load an empty instrument bank and start dragging instruments where you want them. That's it!

PS: Of course you can use you keyboard numeric pad for program change as well.

Of course this is the best way to do it for me, but i tough you and others might be interested.

Cheers


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## Dr.Quest (Jan 26, 2007)

Yeah, I've thought about this bank idea but I like being able to just hit a key to switch. For me it works best. I can see the beauty of the bank but I don't have a controller that sends Program changes although I think there is a way to set up keyswitch bank changes using a Logic transformer.
The controller thing could be a problem.
Your way is faster to set up but mine is pretty quick as well.
I'll play around with the bank method when I get a chance.
I think there are many ways to expand on K2.
Cheers,
J


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## Fernando Warez (Jan 26, 2007)

> Dr.Quest @ Fri Jan 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I've thought about this bank idea but I like being able to just hit a key to switch. For me it works best.
> ...



You bet!  

For me program change with banks was nothing less than a revelation. It's gonna be so much more fun from now on. Let me know how it turns out.

By!


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## Synesthesia (Jan 26, 2007)

Dr.Quest @ Sat Jan 27 said:


> You load into one 16 group multi all the instruments you want in a KS group. Go into each instrument and select edit all groups and choose a KS to turn it on and a range to turn it off.
> Cheers,
> J



Very interesting idea! Would love to hear whether it works 'in practice' - can you set two ranges (if your KS is in the middle of the 'octave of KSs') so that all KS notes below and above the current KS turn this off?

Cheers

Paul


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## lee (Jan 27, 2007)

This is a very specific setup for my needs, but I want to tell you how it is done and maybe inspire someone. I`m using K2.11 and Cubase SL3 btw.

My midikeyboard has 61 keys which means keyswitching my VSL opus 1 is hard, needing 88 keys to do that in a good way..

So I thought, hey I´ll use banks instead but that had also a couple of problems:

1. I want to be able to use and quickly switch between more than 9 articulations/instruments, so the numerical pad on my midikeyb wasnt enough.

2. I think editing program changes is difficult in my sequencer, compared to keyswitches.

3. Kontakt doesnt retrigger the controller data, when you´ve changed program, so that if you for example use a modwheel x-fade script and switch program, the new articulation/instrument will not "remember" the cc value, and you have to record it again. You can read more about it here: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5531

So what did I do?

Well I had an idea of keyswitching with my pc keyboard instead. And I also was looking for a solution for the problem nr 3.

Solution:

Using a mfxscript with a script (as a midiplugin in my sequencer), which the author kindly programmed for my specific needs, letting myself set up custom keyswitches that transforms "on the fly" to program changes when you record and when the track is being played, AND solving the cc problem with program change! This means I`m using keyswitches with my pc keyboard that behave as program changes in Kontakt banks. hehe 

Using Mkey, a freeware plugin that is activated with the capslock key, enabling using the pc keyboard as a midikeyboard where you can set which midinote you want EVERY key to play (or not play). A good thing is that your Cubase Keycommands are blocked when you have capslock active, so you dont have to worry about interfering your keycommands.

Ok, that´s it. I dont know if this solution is possible in other sequencers though, but if anyone´s interested I can send the mfxscript and the script for keyswitching/cc-solution, as the author has told me it´s ok as long as I tell everyone that there is absolutely no support.

/Johnny


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## Dr.Quest (Jan 27, 2007)

Synesthesia @ Fri Jan 26 said:


> Dr.Quest @ Sat Jan 27 said:
> 
> 
> > You load into one 16 group multi all the instruments you want in a KS group. Go into each instrument and select edit all groups and choose a KS to turn it on and a range to turn it off.
> ...


Yes you can. Say your keyswitch is E0 and you already have KS set for C0, C#0, D0, D#0 and F0 etc. In the E0 instrument you tell it to Play group on E0 and Not C0-D#0 AND NOT F0-however high you go.
You can even set it up to sw between instruments that are already KS instruments by just choosing a different range.
Cheers,
J


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## lexaudio (Jan 27, 2007)

Actually, I am doing banking now. it is much easier to move around, delete and change the instruments.

With Nunedo, I have a transformer that turns a KS note into a program change.

LEX


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## Fernando Warez (Jan 27, 2007)

lexaudio @ Sat Jan 27 said:


> Actually, I am doing banking now. it is much easier to move around, delete and change the instruments.
> 
> With Nunedo, I have a transformer that turns a KS note into a program change.
> 
> LEX



Can this be done in the controller editor window(piano roll) like i explained earlier? If i understand correctly that is???:???:

Thanks! :???:


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## Thonex (Jan 27, 2007)

In Nuendo/Cubase, you do it as a midi transform plugin. You take the midi note values of the keyswitches you want (say C0-B0) and the do a transform like this (I'm not at my DAW so this is just the idea)

transform

Midi notes to Program Change

Subtract 24 from Value (so midi note 24 (C0) now equals Progrma change 24-24=0)

That's it.

Now you play Key switches and they are recoded as program chnges.... and the cool part is N3/C4 will chase program changes... unlike KS notes.


Cheers,

T


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## Fernando Warez (Jan 27, 2007)

Thonex @ Sat Jan 27 said:


> In Nuendo/Cubase, you do it as a midi transform plugin. You take the midi note values of the keyswitches you want (say C0-B0) and the do a transform like this (I'm not at my DAW so this is just the idea)
> 
> transform
> 
> ...



OH! So the CC update problem that we normaly would have is no more if we use that midi transfer plugin instead? Is that what you mean here?



> and the cool part is N3/C4 will chase program changes... unlike KS notes.


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## Thonex (Jan 27, 2007)

Fernando Warez @ Sat Jan 27 said:


> OH! So the CC update problem that we normally would have is no more if we use that midi transfer plugin instead? Is that what you mean here?



I think you got it. DAWs can't chase notes that were played (say) 50 measures ago, but Program changes and CC are chased... and therefore updated. So, even if you played your KS 50 measures ago, the most recent Prog change would be read by the DAW.

BTW, this concept can also apply to regular instruments that uses note Key Switching.... in K2 you can assign a CC to be a trigger for a key switch. This is selectable in the Group Start tab of the Group module. 

Cheers,

T


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## Fernando Warez (Jan 27, 2007)

Thonex @ Sat Jan 27 said:


> Fernando Warez @ Sat Jan 27 said:
> 
> 
> > OH! So the CC update problem that we normaly would have is no more if we use that midi transfer plugin instead? Is that what you mean here?
> ...



Thanks man. 

That's sure is a nice tric. Nuendo is not cheap but I'll see what a can do. :wink: 

So long!


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## lexaudio (Jan 27, 2007)

It works with Cubase as well.

You the Midi plugin Transform

Here is what you do:

Filter target:
Type is Equal - Note - And
Pitch - inside range - C0-C1 (for whatever reason, without having C1, it will not change the B0 KS PC)

Action Target is:
Type - Not set - Program Change
Value 1 - Subtract - 24

For low register instruments like bass, change the inside range to C4-C5 and subtract value to 72.

Program change chase - I haven't gotten it to work, even though chase Program Change is active.

Also, Kontakt does change to its default CC values for the instruments unless you are recording them.
And CC1 seems to "jump" if at 127 at a Program Change, sso stay below 127 across a change.

LEX


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## Thonex (Jan 28, 2007)

lexaudio @ Sat Jan 27 said:


> Program change chase - I haven't gotten it to work, even though chase Program Change is active.



Make sure you don't have Program Changes filtered out in the midi filter.

T


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## Fernando Warez (Jan 29, 2007)

Thanks for the tip guys, i may try that eventually. But i still prefer doing it in the controller editor myself.

But i still don't fully understand the limitations while using banks... The CC update problem, what is it exactly? I think i found a work around but I'm not entirely sure if I've got everything covered. Can you guys confirm that what I'm doing is OK? 

Here is what i do. In the midi object i first draw a line(cc11)(volume at 100) from start to finish and make sure it stays there unless i want to fade in or out... The other controller like the mod wheel, pitch bend seems to update OK if i switch X-fade instruments, draw pitch bend etc.. Is this OK? Should i be worry about something else? Becuase that work around is fine with me.

Not that i don't use any CC live, i draw them after I've played my part.

Thanks a lot!

Jack.


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## Dr.Quest (Jan 29, 2007)

I may be switching over to the idea of banks as well. I downloaded LHall's Logic KSW to Program changer environment and it seems to work a treat. 
Very quick to set up. 
Hopefully it will work well in practice. 
Cheers, 
J


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## Fernando Warez (Jan 29, 2007)

I just found an other limitation when I'm using banks. It's not a big deal but Kswitch do not work inside a bank, so if you have a repetition instrument(VSL), you cant tell it what key to trigger. Let's say you have 5 rep and you want to skip the fift rep, you wont be able to do it inside bank instr. It seems to work OK other than that. Unless I'm missing something. 

My work around will be to build RR instruments. I was gonna do that anyway since i don't like to use VSL repetions. Or just load a seperate instrument for ò¬º   P7¬º   P8¬º   P9¬º   P:¬º   P;


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## Dr.Quest (Jan 29, 2007)

As long as the KS are out of range of each other they work fine.
J


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## lexaudio (Jan 29, 2007)

Still, Under Action, Type 1 "Set to fixed Value" doesn't work.

Only when Type 1 is set to "Not Set" does it seem to work.

Possibly a Nuendo 3.2.1 bug.?

LEX


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