# Anybody give up on LASS?



## 5Lives (Apr 30, 2016)

In the sense that it takes such a long time to set up in a template (the built-in templates aren't particularly useful in my opinion and the patches are organized by articulation, but not by section, so I can't just drag in all FC patches for example). I tried to start doing it and realized it was going to take so long that I might as well just try to stick to what I already had in my template (Sable, Albion, and Cinematic Strings 2).

Wish they would create more presets that were more flexible and made the whole thing easier to set up. There's a distinct lack of instant gratification with LASS compared to other libraries.


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## muziksculp (Apr 30, 2016)

Hi,

I don't use them. I Never gelled with LASS. (both sonically, and workflow wise).

I'm starting to use NI Symphony Series String Ensembles, which is so much easier to deal with if you need divisi-strings. (pretty much one click on a button to enable divisi mode, and you get divisi strings). Along with other Strings libraries I think I can forget about LASS. I know others love LASS, and its sound, quite honestly, I don't fancy their sound, or complexity of setup. Again, a matter of taste, and workflow preferences.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## muk (Apr 30, 2016)

Have you gone through Audiobro's tutorial videos? Guy made a very good video as well:



If it's only about the setup process that might help.


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## muziksculp (Apr 30, 2016)

Yes I have, but the whole setup procedure is a bit of a pain for me. (sorry, I wish it was less time consuming to setup).


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## Baron Greuner (Apr 30, 2016)

When it came out, I really liked the idea of it, because small strings are good. Unfortunately, time constraints and the sound stopped from getting it.


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## germancomponist (Apr 30, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> ... and the sound stopped from getting it.


Are u joking?


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## Hannes_F (Apr 30, 2016)

I gave up at some point. The programming is top notch and Andrew is THE MAN for doing all his work. Still in my very personal opinion the recording itself is so so, and the quality of the players seems questionable to me (sorry, I should not post this perhaps). So LASS is similar to a car with sophisticated gear and superb electronics that runs on second rate fuel and bad tires. The electronics are so well developed that they can even out some of the quirks of the fuel and the tires but imagine this standing on an adequate base (Soaring Strings quality or the like).

But I am picky when it comes to strings sound and am recording live most the time anyways, so this might be a special case.

BTW the LASS sordinos are much better.


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## sourcefor (Apr 30, 2016)

I love the legato on lass i blend it with other orch and I think it sounds great


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## Mr. Anxiety (Apr 30, 2016)

5Lives, Just make a Kontakt Bank, drop all your articulations in it, save it, and start working. LASS has been a great workhorse library for my scoring needs for years. I have 5 banks Vlns thru Basses and save this in VEPro and it's a no brainer. You can do the same in your DAW.


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 30, 2016)

I think programming is great. It would be used more these days if they updated the audio...obviously, easier said than done. The harmonics patches have a great quality to them as well. In the past, I've found that doing denser divisi chords in the background works better w lass than other libraries. Haven't tried it recently since I've gotten SPAT so I may use it more to supplement 8dio than I have.


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## Baron Greuner (Apr 30, 2016)

germancomponist said:


> Are u joking?



No Gunther. I found the sound too brittle.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 30, 2016)

Once you understand how it works, it takes about 3 hours to set up properly and then you need never do so again. if you like the sound and the flexibility and you own it, it is well worth you're doing.


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## Saxer (Apr 30, 2016)

Still a good library. It has really useful possibilities to make your personal setup. But I don't understand why they don't offer a ready to go setup. All users have to watch this setup video and spend hours to configure. Having done that it's as easy to use as Cinematic Strings. But why don't they offer a bunch of multis with different stage and colour settings that just work?


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## germancomponist (Apr 30, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> No Gunther. I found the sound too brittle.


Yeah. We all have our own taste. I respect that and think that's a good thing.


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## Saxer (Apr 30, 2016)

-5dB at 2KHz helps to debrittle.


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## jmvideo (Apr 30, 2016)

I gave up on it. I spent countless hours going through the tutorials and setting up divisi, etc. But for me, the interface is just too clunky and I can never get it to do what I want. I also agree that it sounds very brittle.


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## Steve Steele (Apr 30, 2016)

All libraries generally suffer from two problems by nature of having to appeal to a large audience. One, they all sound slightly unrealistic because of too much bow noise, and two, the more baked in room sound they have, the more noise floor issues and weak close mic tone you get. Part of the solution to getting LASS to sound great is really the same one as mixing any string library. So if the sound bothers you right out of the box, where baked-in prettier sounding libs don't, there are some fairly traditional mixing techniques that will get it sounding like you want it.

I admit, I use LASS a lot. Especially the Sordinos. The LASS LS library, which is sold separately from all of the other libs and bundle, is really a gem that probably isn't heard enough. With some simple mixing LS sounds so sweet.

There are some nifty ways to get LASS going quickly. Mr. Anxiety's solution is exactly right. Use the seemingly little known feature of Instrument Banks and you could have your articulations ready for key switching in no time. Or if you're too lazy for that, try Orange Tree's Mind Control. That's what it does. 

But, I will also admit that I'm not totally in love with the ARC. But it's just like building a template. You have to knuckle down for a day and just get it done.

I'd like it if somehow AudioBro magically had room mic'd samples available, but that's a dream. So, if you dampen the strings (with a good eq or convolution eq which I prefer), then build a good stage and room sound around LASS (an increasing old technique I know), you can turn LASS' strengths (great close mic sound, nice three section groups, great legato and divisi), into a fine sounding and very flexible orchestral string section.


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## 5Lives (Apr 30, 2016)

I guess that's my point - 3 hours to just set up LASS? Where's the fun in that?  Any examples of using Instrument Banks in Kontakt?

I have both LASS Full and LASS LS (quite the investment), but agree with some folks here that I find the sound hard to love (even with Stage and Color on). Not exactly up to par in my opinion with the ready to play solutions these days (Spitfire, Cinesamples, Berlin Strings, CS2, Hollywood Strings).


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## muziksculp (Apr 30, 2016)

5Lives said:


> I guess that's my point - 3 hours to just set up LASS? Where's the fun in that?  Any examples of using Instrument Banks in Kontakt?
> 
> I have both LASS Full and LASS LS (quite the investment), but agree with some folks here that I find the sound hard to love (even with Stage and Color on). Not exactly up to par in my opinion with the ready to play solutions these days (Spitfire, Cinesamples, Berlin Strings, CS2, Hollywood Strings).



+1 Exactly how I feel about LASS. That's why I don't bother using it. Let's not forget that Andrew was an integral part of the development team of the latest NI Symph. Series Strings Ensembles, which I consider a good solution for those of us that are not comfortable with the workflow, or sound of LASS, but want a good tool for strings divisi. Actually, I find NI Symph.Strings Ens. Pretty good sounding. Not perfect, but at least I feel it is very useable.


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## germancomponist (Apr 30, 2016)

5Lives said:


> I guess that's my point - 3 hours to just set up LASS? Where's the fun in that?


Wow, you spent 3 hours?
That's incredibly long! I recommend Magix Music Maker!


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## Rodney Money (Apr 30, 2016)

Yes, I've given up on LASS. It's so beyond my idiotic brain, I won't even consider purchasing it.


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 30, 2016)

I gave up on the ARC after setting it up (although it is a great match for the right workflow). Took at least 3 hours. AA/Autodivisi is great though. Now, I only use LASS when 8dio is too expressive.


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## 5Lives (Apr 30, 2016)

germancomponist said:


> Wow, you spent 3 hours?
> That's incredibly long! I recommend Magix Music Maker!



Clearly we value our free time differently...


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## dgburns (Apr 30, 2016)

I think lass is still the most expressive and useful lib out there.I play vln,vla and clo,and when I lay down some tracks myself,lass is the only lib that will actually fill in behind me and sound like it comes from the same place.
All the others don't do legato quite as well,imho,nor do they do divisi like lass does.

In my setup,I have the arc and setup as follows-

lass fc vln 1
lass a vln 1
lass b vln 1
lass c vln 1
lass all vln 1

same for vln II,vla clo and bass

this way I can select the fc only or go to the all,or any combination,and the keyswitches work across all sizes.I can divisi myself across the sections,or use the all with divisi on,whatever .All the articulations are combined using the arc which allows for seemless switching between artics and the mod and cc11 track perfectly across all artics,so I can switch and not have a jump in mod level etc.No other lib does this for me,as far as I know.

I don't use any impulses or stage colouring,so I post process if I want a different sound.But I have yet to do that.I just find the sound of the strings more present and alive.Yes a bit raw at times,but it's easier to add ambience then it is to remove it.For those that find it harsh,well,just pick up and play a violin,and you'll find that they do indeed run the range of subtle to break your ear drum harsh.The trick with Lass is to keep the mod wheel below halfway if you want to keep the section smooth.If you do "go for it" with high mod wheel settngs,keep the mod wheel moving and swell on a mid part of the bowing,pulling mod wheel down as you would near the bow end.Just like a real player would bow.

Love Lass,haven't found anything that betters it.Where it can use help is when I want a more expressive solo player.I have found that it is not convincing in that way.It has a limited range reproducing a solo player.But as a string section,it is still my first choice.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 30, 2016)

I'm a big fan of it too. The sound is very detailed, and I like being able to control the section size - i.e. the concept of divisi sections works very well. It's also very playable and expressive, especially if you bring the first chair out a little more than a first chair would normally be (because it responds to faster playing).

V.2 has setup "starter template" Multis ready to go. You don't need to spend a lot of time setting it up anymore.


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## clisma (Apr 30, 2016)

dgburns said:


> In my setup,I have the arc and setup as follows-
> 
> lass fc vln 1
> lass a vln 1
> ...



This is exactly how I like to set it up in my template. Only problem for me is that it is not smoothly playable on one computer (5,1 MacPro, 12x3.06, 58Gb). Once I start using CCs and all the Divisi sections are playing, just having the extra articulation so loaded causes crackles during performance. Are you doing this with a slave via VEPro?


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## ryanstrong (Apr 30, 2016)

Love the programming on LASS, it's a highly playable instrument but the sound is just too harsh for me and I always end up reaching for Sable.

If Andrew would take his programming chops and re-recorded with multi-mic options I wouldn't think twice about buying that update.


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## 5Lives (Apr 30, 2016)

I managed to get the first chairs and legato sordinos into my template, along with a -5db cut at 2kHz as was suggested and some Spaces reverb. Will play around with these before spending time adding the sections.


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## 667 (Apr 30, 2016)

I don't use the ARC, just LASS as regular patches.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 30, 2016)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'm a big fan of it too. The sound is very detailed, and I like being able to control the section size - i.e. the concept of divisi sections works very well. It's also very playable and expressive, especially if you bring the first chair out a little more than a first chair would normally be (because it responds to faster playing).
> 
> V.2 has setup "starter template" Multis ready to go. You don't need to spend a lot of time setting it up anymore.


+1. I tried unsuccessfully to get my addled brain wrapped around LASS, then someone led me to the ARC starter template, which is easy as pie in VEP. Five instances cover me for all sections unison, first chairs and divisis, then it took an hour to set it up in Cubase. Pretty simple-if I can do it, anyone can. I'm very non-nerd.

The sound needs to be massaged via eq but the first chairs are great, the divisi is great and the legato is the best I've heard so far. I've recently started getting into LASS LS and the Auto Arranger. Generally, I think those sorts of things are for shite, but the six-voice AA patch for LS is sort of awesome.


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## rgames (Apr 30, 2016)

LASS sounds like what strings sound like when you're sitting in the orchestra.

Many others sound like what strings sound like when you're sitting in the audience.

With a little mixing/EQ/reverb you can move LASS into the hall as necessary but it's basically impossible to go the other way, so I find it much more flexible across various genres. Plus I've not found legatos that sound better on fast runs (probably due to the dry recordings).

It's still my go-to string library after all these years. Also, auto-divisi a very inspiring tool - other libraries need to add this feature, especially VSL w/ the VI Pro player.

I set up the sections years ago and haven't touched them since.

rgames


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## Hannes_F (May 1, 2016)

rgames said:


> LASS sounds like what strings sound like when you're sitting in the orchestra.



Agreed if you mean it sounds as close as if you are sitting in the orchestra. But the actual sound in a good strings group is quite different imho.


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## Maximvs (May 1, 2016)

I gave up on using LASS quite a long time ago... I never liked the tuning and too complex to use for my liking.
It is very unfortunate that AudioBro doesn't allow to re-sell it.


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## jononotbono (May 1, 2016)

Give up on it? I was thinking about buying it! How does the Auto Divisi Function work? Sounds like a great feature! How does LASS compare with 8Dio Adagio and OT Berlin Strings? I own Adagio but not Berlin yet.


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## Lex (May 1, 2016)

I was just thinking last week how I still don't have anything that would replace LASS, complement for sure, but replace...not really. I think I use it in some way in every single thing I do since it was released. Btw, I use the original patches, no ARC and no impulses stuff, just simple patches...

alex


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## Kejero (May 1, 2016)

LASS have been my main strings for many years and they still are. I used to have all the sections setup in ARC, but I've completely moved away from that approach (I've generally moved away from using any keyswitching altogether). Today LASS sits in my template with a whole bunch of seperate tracks. I've also never used Stage and Color. I apply some EQ on every section to warm up the sound, and I use QL Spaces to place them in a room. I'll often complement with some other libraries depending on the sound I'm after.

But I like having my strings as dry as LASS. It offers a kind of flexibility that's hard to beat, and to me that means a whole lot of value for my money. Obviously it also means it's not 'plug-and-play' but you can't have it both ways.

Edit: I also don't use the auto-divisi. I'm sure it's a great feature for some people but it never gives me the result I want. I find it much easier to just play in each section myself.


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## lux (May 1, 2016)

Lass has been a great achievement, you can be fine or not with its color, but it has undeniable qualities to it


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## ag75 (May 1, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Yes, I've given up on LASS. It's so beyond my idiotic brain, I won't even consider purchasing it.


So you have given up on something you don't own? Does that mean you can demo LASS!? I have always wanted to try out this library. It seems to be such a divicive library though.


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## KEnK (May 1, 2016)

Amazed by what I'm reading here! 
Glad to see some people express a genuine appreciation for a still unparalleled tool.
(to dburns, Nick, rgames- )

Here's a different perspective regarding workflow/creativity.
I'm a multi-instrumentalist.
Main inst is guitar, but also play perc, keys, some winds and I keep adding instruments.

Point is- even if I played only a single guitar I would spend x hours/week practicing.
Do you guys complaining about a single set up session (or two) still practice your instrument?

An expressive personal musical vision takes time-
Personally I'm not into presets on synths or fx, they have nothing to do w/ me.
Also I'm pretty old school regarding synths- meaning I program my own patches- always.
This also takes time. I just never warmed up to the "ready made" sound.

Because of what I do (and the way I do it) I spend a great deal of time in preparation-
So forgive me for not actually seeing that the little bit of time it takes to set LASS up as a problem.

The beauty of it is that it will sound and work the way you want it to.
You cannot get that level of unique personal sound or workflow from any string lib I've seen.
Yes- it's not for everybody, but like an instrument, you put a little time into it and it becomes a personal thing.

k


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## sinkd (May 1, 2016)

The short answer to the OP is HELL NO!

To echo some great advice already given: Use the starter template and then make MIDI tracks for section, First Chair and the divisis. Simple as that--25 tracks. The first time I set up the keyswitches (I bought LASS pre-release) was very time consuming but the starter template changes all that. I mix LASS with FORTI/SERTI impulse responses from Numerical Sound inside of Vienna Suite, which was really the silver bullet in terms of getting LASS to sound just so. I use the same IRs to mix VSL woodwinds and brass. The legatos and Auto Arranger have never been beaten, IMO. I also use Hollywood Strings Diamond, Albion I & II and Sable strings, as well as Embertone; if I had to have only one, I would keep LASS.

I would hate to see anyone remain discouraged (Rodney  who is thinking about investing in LASS.

DS


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## Guy Rowland (May 1, 2016)

Indeed KenK... kind of alarming to read people who think spending 3 hours to set something up once isn't worth the bother. As I think I've said a lot of times over the years, that time is massively more than repaid due to time saved when you're actually composing. When I'm in the heat of battle and a patch has some dodgy legato transitions or something, I'm much more likely to ditch that library and go with an alternative rather than face hours of massaging and coaxing something workable out it. That's where LASS really scores - invest the time making it work for you upfront.

To be fair, in recent years I have used more of other libraries for some tonal variety. I use Stage and Color - typically about a 50/50 mix. Finally - and I don't think anyone has made this important point - stick to the first 50% of CC1 travel in all but the most FFF of phrases, which is the library's sweet spot. If I remember, this classic Colin O Malley piece which must have sold 1,000 copies of the library just used out of the box EQ and low CC values, and sounds as good today as the day I first heard it:


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## Ashermusic (May 1, 2016)

Good things in the arts take time and work. I don't use LASS so I have no dog in the hunt, but if you are not willing to spend three hours setting up a library you like to work for you well, go sell shoes.

I have spent many times more than that over the years setting up, re-setting up, changing my setup yet again etc. with Hollywood Strings and Kirk Hunter's Concert Strings.


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## tack (May 1, 2016)

Even if it's 6 hours, that's still a rounding error compared to how much time I've invested in other libraries. And, indeed as Guy suggested, how much time you will spend working around that "dodgy legato transition" -- something which remains high on my list of current frustrations about Spitfire libraries -- will probably eclipse the initial LASS setup time by some margin.

I don't own LASS yet, but I quite like the idea of it. It's dry and painfully flexible, which means it stands apart in a market saturated with dripping wet samples.

My first _real _experience taming a dry library was with Sample Modeling. Everyone had said to be prepared to do some real combat with it. But my actual experience was very different: I slapped a decent reverb on it, grabbed the breath controller I already had, and the hours of time that passed wasn't me doing battle but rather losing myself in addictive noodling.

The demo Guy linked to does sound great. I am truly the target audience of such demos: very poor financial impulse control, and a sucker for that Hollywood sound.

I may yet buy it some day. I am not the slightest bit concerned about the prospect of investing the time to adapt it to my workflow. I'm more concerned about buying yet another (pricey) library when I know I haven't fully and properly leveraged what I already own.


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## JohnG (May 1, 2016)

LASS remains an excellent tool. You will want an update of at least v2 but that's been out for ages. I think I'm on version 2.5.

As with all library choices, listen very carefully to the demos you hear and, if it's to your taste, buy it. If not, don't.

As many have said, the new string libraries are deep constructions; it can take a month to really knock one's template into shape just with strings. However, I'd say LASS is much easier to navigate than the average. Compared with some other string libraries, I find LASS far less confusing / time consuming to set up. As others have suggested, it is a good idea to watch the videos on their site.


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## lucky909091 (May 1, 2016)

I'm starting to use NI Symphony Series String Ensembles, which was developed by the LASS-team as far as I know.
It is so easy to use and I can achieve the requested sound very fast (concerning Divisi or other sounds).

LASS was always in need of some reverb and the operation needs some user-skills. 

Today I am using LASS 2.0 just for some Ostianto-figures (their sequencer is really a great tool) and nothing more.

Again, it is a matter of taste, and a matter of workflow preferences - as everyone here knows.


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## jononotbono (May 1, 2016)

3 hours is nothing. Building a Template is a life sentence.


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## Ashermusic (May 1, 2016)

tack said:


> and a sucker for that Hollywood sound.
> .



There are a lot of good things to say about LASS but it is not a classic "Hollywood sound" by any understanding I have of that description.


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## Kejero (May 1, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> There are a lot of good things to say about LASS but it is not a classic "Hollywood sound" by any understanding I have of that description.


With all the different divisi sections + dry recordings + LASS sordinos, I'd absolutely say it can do a whole bunch of 'classic hollywood'.


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## Studio E (May 1, 2016)

I have all of the LASS collection, as well as Albion and Hollywood Strings Gold. If you told me I could only have one I would pick LASS hands-down. I truly feel that work you put in to getting it to sound good is well worth it and really just a one-time investment. I find that it plays FAR better than any other library I've ever worked with. It is SO expressive and the legato is indeed top notch.

I setup multis myself so that I have keyswitches of every available articulation for each possible section such as Violins Full, A, B, or C. That way I can play the full range of any section I want and choose any articulation I want.

It is a very close sounding library but I feel that I've totally been able to overcome that isuiong a small amount of stock EQ and QL Spaces.

I did indeed take maybe a half day or so creating the multi's, but it was well worth it.

Not showing off or saying this is world's greatest writing or porduction, but for those that think LASS is too harsh, you can listen to how I used it in a couple places here where either it isn't so harsh or, the harshness is something that fits and I don't think would have been nearly as good with either of my other libraries.

They sound warm and in the distance here:


And on this one starting at 3:07. I couldn't imagine using anything else but LASS


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## Ashermusic (May 1, 2016)

Well to me, the Hollywood sound, as most people understand it, is lush and while I am sure it's possible to achieve lushness with LASS that is not how it sounds by default compared to either Hollywood Strings or Cinematic Strings 2.

Once again, not knocking it, it is a fine library.


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## SillyMidOn (May 1, 2016)

Hannes_F said:


> The electronics are so well developed that they can even out some of the quirks of the fuel and the tires but imagine this standing on an adequate base (Soaring Strings quality or the like).


Do you mean to say that Soaring Strings is superior in sound to LASS (ignoring the fact that is a smaller library) - just talking about the pure legato sound? (Curious as I am thinking of buying Soaring Strings, already have LASS and quite a few other strings libraries, none of which really make me smile).


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## Greg (May 1, 2016)

No, the string spiccato will be in my template forever, love it for adding some dry texture / body / close mic sound.


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## dgburns (May 1, 2016)

clisma said:


> This is exactly how I like to set it up in my template. Only problem for me is that it is not smoothly playable on one computer (5,1 MacPro, 12x3.06, 58Gb). Once I start using CCs and all the Divisi sections are playing, just having the extra articulation so loaded causes crackles during performance. Are you doing this with a slave via VEPro?



yes,in vepro on pc farm node (trying to not use the s word) 

@Monsieur Asher and group, imo,just getting me legs under HW strings,and while the sound is maybe smoother,the expressive posibilities seem more restricted.I've set up HW strings using the starting "pro" templates,and find the violin hi range useful,as well as the cello,the rest strikes me as more homogenous then lass.In a dense arrangement,Lass will actually work better for me,as the body of the strings can get lost behind the woods and brass.The legato in lass seems to bring the arrangement more to life,where HW seems more restrained.

fidelity, separation of sound and clarity of arrangement.It's a struggle to work that arrangement into the best possible combination of sound to create something larger then the parts,or in the very least to make it PHONOGENIC!

Lass is like a race horse,energetic,willing and possibly easily able to overwhelm the rider,who will fall down and go boom.HW is more like the mature gentrified sunday stroll mare,whose willing to accept a wider range of instructions and limit the amount of sound in order to keep control and stay lyrical for longer.

Of course some scores require a sound that is smoother,I'm noticing a tendency in recent shows,such as Game of Thrones and Outlander,as with alot of Desplat music,that the sound is softer,crafted to be that way from the get go.While I realize those are played scores,the mockup leading up to that would maybe be better served by a Spitfire,or HW type of sound.

Still,I prefer the race horse that is Lass.


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## 5Lives (May 1, 2016)

Clearly folks on both sides! I do this as a hobby and as such, my free time that I can dedicate to it is limited (as Ashermusic so tactfully implied, I am busy selling shoes). Immediacy is an important factor (see CineSamples for how to do that correctly), but I don't shy away from some set up (I just spent a significant amount of time building a template in Cubase). What frustrates me about LASS is that their starter templates aren't very helpful (and I have 2.5):

- The ARC Starter is just ARC, so no instruments loaded
- They have some starter templates, like Violins 1 Divisi Key Switch - except it is spread across 4 ports in Kontakt, which apart from port A, are inaccessible in Cubase, so that template is not very useful
- The patches are not organized by section, but by articulation - works nicely if you wanted a track with all pizzicatos, but not so well if you wanted a track for all first violin articulations. Wish they would organize by section for faster setup.

So basically, you do have to build everything from scratch. Now, clearly many people feel that set up time is worth it in the end and I will try to spend the time to do it (thanks Guy for your video that had some cool set up tips like Quick Controls to toggle Legato!). But it does seem like a pain in the LASS.


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## novaburst (May 1, 2016)

I think realistically if you are very into how you want your strings to sound you are going to spend more than 3 hours in tweaking and so on even with the instant gratification library,

Never the less I was kind of warming toward LASS from looking at there vids, the sound hmmm I would say broad.

But I have a question after reading the word I have giving up on lass, is this just a figure of speech or here say, as i would like to know can LASS be resold, I would say if so and it is redundant to you why not give it away for a small price.


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## Ashermusic (May 1, 2016)

5Lives said:


> Clearly folks on both sides! I do this as a hobby and as such, my free time that I can dedicate to it is limited (as Ashermusic so tactfully implied, I am busy selling shoes). Immediacy is an important factor (see CineSamples for how to do that correctly), =



Fair enough, if immediacy is a priority to you, then probably neither LASS or Hollywood Strings are as good choices as some others, like Cinematic Strings 2 (or Kirk Hunter's Concert Strings 3 for that matter.)


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## Rodney Money (May 1, 2016)

ag75 said:


> So you have given up on something you don't own?


Yep, I'm too stupid to know how to get a good sound out of it.


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## novaburst (May 1, 2016)

Studio E said:


> I have all of the LASS collection, as well as Albion and Hollywood Strings Gold. If you told me I could only have one I would pick LASS hands-down. I truly feel that work you put in to getting it to sound good is well worth it and really just a one-time investment. I find that it plays FAR better than any other library I've ever worked with. It is SO expressive and the legato is indeed top notch.
> 
> I setup multis myself so that I have keyswitches of every available articulation for each possible section such as Violins Full, A, B, or C. That way I can play the full range of any section I want and choose any articulation I want.
> 
> ...




That was killer sound, very touching piece of music on both uploads, I know this is not a what do you think thread but just needed to say great demo using LASS + plus + plus sweet !!!!!!!!! this one made my afternoon


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## novaburst (May 1, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> I have spent many times more than that over the years setting up, re-setting up, changing my setup yet again etc



And that is that +1


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## muziksculp (May 1, 2016)

Hi,

After reading all the positive feedback about LASS on this thread, I might have to revisit them, and invest some quality time trying to use them, learn the whole LASS system in-depth, and see if I can build a nice LASS template. I figure that I already invested $$$ into this library, and it is sitting idle on my drive, so might as well use it. I will have to reserve a few days to focus on it. 

So, Thanks for all the positive vibe here. It's easy to be discouraged to use LASS due to the setup time, and raw/harsh sound one hears before tweaking it.

I would love to hear more about it's sister library *LASS LS *, the demos sound wonderful, and I feel they don't get enough publicity, and mention here.

It would also be interesting to hear form LASS and LASS LS users who purchased *NI. Symph. Series Strings Ens. *

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## StatKsn (May 1, 2016)

I use multiband limiter/dynamic EQ like TDR Nova (there is a free version and it's still fabulous) to make raw sounds (like VSL) less harsh more silky by limiting bands around 2k. With TDR Nova you'll do something like the attached screenshot.

Conversely, if a punchy in-your-face sound is needed, you may boost somewhere around 4-5k to get a brass-like tone.

Another approach I believe very useful is pitch+transpose trick e.g. -1 semitone pitch and +1 transpose etc. Lower pitch means lower formant, less harsh sound and vice versa (if the library is not chromatically sampled you need to use a wider semitone). Worth a try if EQing/band limiting did not give a good result.


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## 5Lives (May 1, 2016)

Ok - I figured I will share how I set this up (in way less than 3 hours - more like 30 minutes max). Hopefully it will help others.

This is in Cubase 8.5.

1) Create an instrument track and load Kontakt
2) Load the LASS Multi "Violins 1 Divisi Key Switch" under ARC Template Starters. This loads all sections + FC.
3) Create 4 MIDI tracks, going to channels 1 to 4 of the previously created Kontakt instance
4) In Kontakt, in ARC, go to Set A and set the KeySwitch Input Channel to Port A Channel 1. I also set the keyswitch start to C-1 instead of C0.
5) For Set B, set the KeySwitch Input Channel to Port A Channel 2. For C, Channel 3. For D, Channel 4. I disabled Set E.

Now your 4 MIDI channels will play each of the sections (FC, A, B, C) through a single instance of Kontakt. You can do the same for Violins 2, Violas, Cellos, and Basses. Now, you may want more mixing control over the sections - like say having FC on their own audio channel. I created two instances of Kontakt in this case - both had Violins 1 Divisi Key Switch loaded. On the first, I removed all instruments except for FC and disabled all Sets except Set A. On the second, I removed FC instruments and disabled Set A. This way, I can mix the First Chairs separately from the individual sections. If you wanted to have a channel per section, you could do the same or just mix the level in Kontakt (which I plan on doing). I also created an Expression Map and put it on all of the MIDI channels and set up a Quick Control to map to the Legato control (so I can turn it on or off).

Lastly, I bussed all of the instrument tracks to a single buss running QL Spaces and a FabFilter EQ to remove some of the harshness.

Anyway, this set up was pretty fast and hopefully will at least let me use LASS more (and see how I like it). Hope it helps others.


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## novaburst (May 1, 2016)

muziksculp said:


> After reading all the positive feedback about LASS on this thread, I might have to revisit them, and invest some quality time



Oh sugar !!!!!!! no cheap LASS coming my way, lol...............Hope you get to grips with it I have heard it in demos, really like there idea, those who put a little time in it to use come out with some spectacular pieces, really hope you can do the same.


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## rap_ferr (May 1, 2016)

Hey guys, I'm using the Multis from LASS, they don't take much time. After that you just set up the midi tracks in your DAW (Cubase in my case).

One thing I never got working is the auto arranger.

How do you set it to turn it on and off using a midi cc (remeber I'm using the multis)?


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## Kejero (May 1, 2016)

StatKsn said:


> I use multiband limiter/dynamic EQ like TDR Nova (there is a free version and it's still fabulous) to make raw sounds (like VSL) less harsh more silky by limiting bands around 2k. With TDR Nova you'll do something like the attached screenshot.



Yikes! Am I reading this correctly that you are cutting 36db?  How does that not sound absolutely horrible?

Anyway, IIRC, I have a narrow cut around 8K of maybe 6db on my violins, and something similiar on the other sections.


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## Jaap (May 1, 2016)

LASS is almost like having a relation.

Our LASS(ie) is a bit nerdy in the beginning and a bit shy and unsure, but you spend some time with her and give her all the attention that she needs and then the magic happens! She starts to blossom and gives you warmth, love on a truely deep level that will last. She will arange things for you, build you a beautiful ARC in the garden and yeah, there will be bumps in the road (nothing an EQ can't fix), but after all a good relationship is all about the ups and downs and how to make smooth transitions between them and a marriage to our LASS(ie) is not different!

TLDR: no I won't give up


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## tack (May 1, 2016)

Jaap said:


> Our LASS(ie) is a bit nerdy in the beginning and a bit shy and unsure, but you spend some time with her and give her all the attention that she needs and then the magic happens!


How could I not think of:


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## Jaap (May 1, 2016)

tack said:


> How could I not think of:




Exactly!


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 1, 2016)

> the sound is just too harsh for me



Are you playing it at full velocity all the time? That makes it sound harsh.

And what about the new stage and color features? They change the sound pretty drastically, to the point that overall statements about its sound are often meaningless.


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## StatKsn (May 1, 2016)

Kejero said:


> Yikes! Am I reading this correctly that you are cutting 36db?  How does that not sound absolutely horrible?
> 
> Anyway, IIRC, I have a narrow cut around 8K of maybe 6db on my violins, and something similiar on the other sections.



The blue line in the screenshot is indicating limiter threshold with very mild ratio setting, so it is not necessarily cutting 20db (your taste may vary).


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## JohnG (May 1, 2016)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> And what about the new stage and color features? They change the sound pretty drastically, to the point that overall statements about its sound are often meaningless.




Yes. You really want to use these. That's the point of the (major) upgrades to v2.5. It's a completely different animal and, as Nick points out, allows you to change the sound radically.


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## NYC Composer (May 2, 2016)

I never got on with Stage and Color. To me, they are just preset EQs and spaces that take up a lot of CPU. I'd rather roll my own.


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## Guy Rowland (May 2, 2016)

(Just on Larry's point above - most of the S&C CPU use is in the reverbs. I disable these in the Kontakt outputs and use my own verbs. Likewise the staging side of it brings little to the party, so really I just use a bit of colour).


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## NYC Composer (May 2, 2016)

My setup is very much like 5 lives. It's easy as pie to set up a basic template with 5 sections and a load of keys switches, with First Chairs for each section. 

Here's a little gentle chamber piece with 8 violins and 4 celli, using Divisi A and first chairs for 1st violins, 2nd violins and celli.

http://www.ljnmusicandsound.com/2016/sentimental-lass/

As always, I used the scientific method for EQ and space- grabbed a handful
of stock Cubase EQ and threw on some Valhalla Room.


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## LHall (May 2, 2016)

I gave up on learning to play the violin. I tried for THREE HOURS and it was just too hard and complicated!!!

"Of course it's hard - that's what makes it great. If it was easy everybody would do it!" - A League Of Their Own

Ok - enough snarky outta me. LASS is the only string library I use. I've bought others including some very recent releases, but I always come back to LASS. I perform both my own and other's arrangements with them and I've never found a sound I couldn't get out of them. The Sordino library is absolutely silky gorgeous. I've done pop, classical, jazz, Martin-esque, etc. 

I just love 'em.


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## marclawsonmusic (May 2, 2016)

I really like the sound and flexibility of LASS. I was able to get it to sound very 'cinematic' (ala Cinematic Strings 2) by using some EQ (mostly cutting the highs) and sending it through QL Spaces.

The portamento / gliss is something I like very much... I don't hear people talk about it a lot, but it's lovely if you're trying to do something Goldsmith-y or Holst-y.

I am in the process of rebuilding a (modular) template in Logic / VEPro and LASS is part of it - I just went through the process of setting up LASS again. I understand some of the frustration with the way the patches are delivered (by articulation rather than instrument), but really how much longer does that add to building the multi? An extra 5 minutes maybe?

I agree that time is a premium (I am a hobbyist too), but spending 3 hours setting up a template is nothing. To really get comfortable with your libraries and get the most out of them, it's going to take a helluva lot longer than that - dozens, maybe hundreds of hours. For my part, I have given up trying to get quick results (that's just marketing hype anyway) and am in it for the long haul. Anything worth doing (well) is worth the time.


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## Gabriel Oliveira (May 2, 2016)




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## whinecellar (May 2, 2016)

Another +1 in favor of LASS. It's still a fundamental part of my template along with Hollywood Strings; the two compliment each other really well. HWS is my "broad brush strokes" tool for its gorgeous tone - and LASS is my "detail brush" for its precision, legatos and especially its shorts. The biggest mistake I made when I first got it is riding the mod wheel too high. THAT is where the "harshness" kicks in. Learning how dynamics work with LASS is crucial to getting great results.

It's one of the few libraries I own that is just about fully loaded in my template (along with HW Strings) - I use it all at one point or another. I don't bother with ARC or stage/color though - I've just built my own template and EQ it on my own - I get better results that way.

If I have one complaint about it, it would be some of the truly wonky legato transitions in the 1st chair players (some of those go WAY out of tune before landing in the right spot) - that's a shame because otherwise those could make killer soloists. I know they're not intended for that, but still...

Anyway, still a crucial tool after all these years!


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## thov72 (May 2, 2016)

Guy Rowland said:


> (Just on Larry's point above - most of the S&C CPU use is in the reverbs. I disable these in the Kontakt outputs and use my own verbs. Likewise the staging side of it brings little to the party, so really I just use a bit of colour).


darn! how do you do that? Reply and make me happy


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## Guy Rowland (May 2, 2016)

thov72 said:


> darn! how do you do that? Reply and make me happy



Happiness ahoy! Just open up the Kontakt mixer (the Output icon), make sure you have Show Inserts on, then get rid of the convolution instances on the Auxes. Done.


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## prodigalson (May 2, 2016)

I don't have much to say other than to echo the pro-LASS sentiment here. 

On first glance yes it seems complicated to set up but once you take 20 mins to watch the videos it makes way more sense and is very easy to set up. Any suggestion of it taking over 3 hours to set up is ridiculous. You can get a very involved template going much quicker than that and once you do it is a phenomenally useful, flexible and expressive library. Absolutely worth the time. 

IMO, no other library provides as much flexibility, it has the smoothest no-fuss legato of any library out there and is easily layered with just about anything.


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## NYC Composer (May 2, 2016)

Much love for LASS! I was starting to feel lonely...


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## Silence-is-Golden (May 2, 2016)

Gabriel Oliveira said:


>



very nicely done and tasteful.


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## 5Lives (May 2, 2016)

Well clearly a lot of LASS lovers here! Beautiful demo Gabriel.

I guess I will stick with figuring out LASS for now instead of pulling the trigger on something like Mural or CineStrings.


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## reddognoyz (May 3, 2016)

Lass works very well for me. I have other libraries I will bring in when I want a lusher sound.


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## mgpqa1 (May 3, 2016)

I'm about to give up on LASS, but only because I can't buy it due to some PayPal issues during checkout. 

@Thonex, if you're reading this, I'm trying to give you my money!


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## Leeward (May 3, 2016)

Another thumbs up for LASS from me. Quite simply the most flexible string library I've tried. You can achieve almost any sound you want, with a bit of work. The detail embedded in the extremely dry samples still remains when you bury it in reverb. Everything remains very clear and reminds me a little of the 90's film score sound which was lush but a bit more crisp and not lost in too much space.

The divisi patches are superb also, as are the shorts. Very punchy at their highest dynamic. And I love the legato trems.

And, like some have mentioned, I prefer to work with it on a patch-by-patch basis. Yes, it clutters up your workspace, but I love having that control at a glace.

So, yeah, a lot of love from me.


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## AVaudio (May 3, 2016)

The legato, out of the box, is very realistic to my ears. I think that if something sounds good, it doesn't matter if it was made ten or two years ago. I try not to fall into that commercial mentality.


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## kavinsky (May 4, 2016)

LASS is great and you can't really get that sort of quality with anything else
Just don't bother messing with ARC (can't stand the awful impulse-based stage and color too, personally), it works just fine without the unnecessary complications.

The spiccs are one of the best out there if not the best. 
Always find myself coming back to it, it just works for me I guess


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## muziksculp (May 4, 2016)

kavinsky said:


> LASS is great and you can't really get that sort of quality with anything else
> Just don't bother messing with ARC (can't stand the awful impulse-based stage and color too, personally), it works just fine without the unnecessary complications.
> 
> The spiccs are one of the best out there if not the best.
> Always find myself coming back to it, it just works for me I guess



Isn't ARC what allows LASS to be used with auto-divisi sections as you play live ? So, without using the ARC, isn't LASS just a normal Strings Library, without the Auto Divisi feature ?


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## givemenoughrope (May 4, 2016)

muziksculp said:


> Isn't ARC what allows LASS to be used with auto-divisi sections as you play live ? So, without using the ARC, isn't LASS just a normal Strings Library, without the Auto Divisi feature ?



No, you can setup Auto Divisi without the ARC...and you can save the different settings as keyswitchable presets. I can't say that Audiobro thought of everything but they thought of most things that you would need (that were/are possible)...so, I think it has plenty of life left in it.


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## muziksculp (May 4, 2016)

givemenoughrope said:


> No, you can setup Auto Divisi without the ARC...and you can save the different settings as keyswitchable presets. I can't say that Audiobro thought of everything but they thought of most things that you would need (that were/are possible)...so, I think it has plenty of life left in it.



Intersting, I don't understand how that would work. How can you have auto-divisi via keyswitching ? wouldn't that require manually switching sections via a keyswitch, which doesn't make it Automatic (or am I not defining auto correctly) ?


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## dubdecember (May 4, 2016)

Haven't read the thread through, just want to say I spent a few days setting up an extremely comprehensive LASS template in 2012 and everyone still thinks the strings are real. Other composers I've worked with on shows, etc., have switched to LASS after hearing the template. So take your time to learn it, it's worth it!


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## muziksculp (May 4, 2016)

dubdecember said:


> Haven't read the thread through, just want to say I spent a few days setting up an extremely comprehensive LASS template in 2012 and everyone still thinks the strings are real. Other composers I've worked with on shows, etc., have switched to LASS after hearing the template. So take your time to learn it, it's worth it!



That's encouraging, and great to hear. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 4, 2016)

I recommend emailing [email protected] about the Paypal issue. They're typically very responsive.


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## muziksculp (May 4, 2016)

Q. What's you favorite Reverb to use with LASS ?


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## Leeward (May 4, 2016)

I use 2CAudio B2 on pretty much everything, after watching blakus' template videos on Youtube. Very lovely sound.

I find it brings LASS, in particular, to life.


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## NoamL (May 4, 2016)

There is *no such thing* as the "Hollywood sound." The instruments aren't different (of course), it's all staging and mix. LASS has the same philosophy as Sample Modeling, they give you the dry practice room or rehearsal room sound. This unglamorous sound is simply what strings sound like up close in real life... It's up to you to stage the instruments.

Yes the library is an unholy pain to set up, it's at least a day (watch Guy's video!!!). If you cut corners you'll eventually be back setting it up properly so do it the thorough way the first time. And yeah, mixing is a pain too, at least for me. And keep in mind that CC1 = 70 is a good strong _f_. Keep that modwheel low!

So all of those things are bumps in the road to mastering LASS... But suppose that you are aiming to really recreate a classic scoring sound. What would you rather deal with - LASS's setup and mixing chores, or a library that _doesn't_ have true divisi? Any attempts to sound like JW or Thomas Newman are going to go out the window real quick when you can't even divide the orchestra. I think non string players really underestimate how indispensable LASS's true divisi is to achieving the so called "Hollywood Sound." Likewise the legato is still one of the most REAL legatos I've heard in any string library. The spiccato is also top tier and highly flexible. And finally, the section sizes are correct for classic HW scoring.

I'm working on a Star Wars fan film right now. Went from *LASS* to *Mural1 *because of a few minor headaches with mixing and balancing LASS and HWB. I found that the Jake Jackson mixes of Mural were really great for achieving the SW sound. But, after actually trying to _write_ with the library (trills... divisis.... fast legato...), I'm going back to LASS.


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## givemenoughrope (May 4, 2016)

muziksculp said:


> Intersting, I don't understand how that would work. How can you have auto-divisi via keyswitching ? wouldn't that require manually switching sections via a keyswitch, which doesn't make it Automatic (or am I not defining auto correctly) ?



You can save auto divisi conditions via a keyswitch. It's easy to set up.


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## whinecellar (May 4, 2016)

Couldn't agree more strongly with @NoamL - that is the best succinct review of LASS I can imagine.


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## Ashermusic (May 4, 2016)

Well I could disagree with some of what Noam wrote. Hollywood Strings sure sounds like JW to me on e.g the demos T.J. Bergersen did for it.


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## germancomponist (May 4, 2016)

HW Stings and LASS are both great libraries!


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## 5Lives (May 4, 2016)

How many are using auto-divisi patches vs. one track per A,B,C section and then just recording each individually?


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## JohnG (May 4, 2016)

NoamL said:


> LASS has the same philosophy as Sample Modeling, they give you the dry practice room or rehearsal room sound



No they don't! They give you more than one mic position and frankly it sounds nothing at all like Sample Modeling. There is air / room around LASS.


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## dubdecember (May 4, 2016)

muziksculp said:


> Q. What's you favorite Reverb to use with LASS ?



I use Altiverb. Two instances - one early reflections only and one tails only. I think I'm using the Walt Disney Hall verb. Very natural sound, but sometimes I'll add an instance of Lexicon Big Hall to both to give it a bigger sound if necessary (e.g., clients asks for the strings to sound "bigger"). I'll also double them with the original EWQLSO (yes!) strings if client wants it bigger. LASS lends it realistic playing and feel, and EWQLSO gives it that fat out of the box hugeness.


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## NoamL (May 4, 2016)

Yes HWS does sound lovely!! but the divisi is lacking. The attempt at divisi in that library is not even true divisi but rather selective miking of the same section. 



5Lives said:


> How many are using auto-divisi patches vs. one track per A,B,C section and then just recording each individually?



I have 10 instances of Kontakt (stereo). Each one has 15 artics loaded. So for instance my Vln 1 Shorts has:

(Midi Channel 1 deliberately left blank)
Midi 2: Vln1 FC Spic
Midi 3: Vln1 A Spic
Midi 4: Vln1 B Spic
Midi 5: Vln1 C Spic
Midi 6: Vln1 FC Stacc
Midi 7: Vln1 A Stacc
etc

Then they're grouped by keyswitch using the Keyswitch tab of the ARC

A-1 becomes the Spiccato keyswitch, so it "contains" Midi Ch 2+3+4+5
Bb-1 becomes the Staccato keyswitch, so it contains Midi 6+7+8+9

etc.

Then you do that nine more times & you're ready to write music 

The benefit of splitting shorts and longs, apart from mixing, is that I have 3-part auto arrange on automatically for all my shorts. For my longs, I have a CC switch that turns AA on/off.

It took me a day to set up all the microtuning, stage & color, eq the way I wanted it but now I *NEVER *load patches into my sessions. I load the entire string orchestra by importing it from a Template session in Logic. Hence my "do it completely once and it's done" comment.


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## g.c. (May 4, 2016)

sourcefor said:


> I love the legato on lass i blend it with other orch and I think it sounds great



I do the same, particularly blended with libs I want to use but with whom the Legato patches are poor to nonexistant. In addition I the long Stacs, Spics, Long Marcatos and Pizzes. The Legato Sords also blend well with with other libs.
And there support with Sebastian & A. K. is prompt, friendly & top drawer.
g.c.


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## Silence-is-Golden (May 5, 2016)

NoamL said:


> And keep in mind that CC1 = 70 is a good strong _f_. Keep that modwheel low!


This is why this forum is so useful, always there is someone presenting a piece of knowledge ( like Guy R. also aluded to in his vid) that can give good pointers to actual usage and approaches.

Although it may be that there is no one best solution or having it all strings library, LASS has a lot of potential ground for various ( non-holywood) genres.

Even though many also indicate its good shorts, I am glad to have f.e. S.A. shorts like 'feathered' because the LASS shorts cannot be that sublte in the low dynamics.
Therefore anyone will find a way with their needs.

But as a whole this is a very useful stings library for my needs.
Blending this with the new Lightandsound strings lib will create new possibilities.


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## Mr Greg G (May 5, 2016)

Huge fan of LASS here. I actually consider it to be the best strings library ever released ...yet. My main complain would be that some notes are out of tune and it's really hurting my ears. But you have with LASS many divisis, and sections / full ensemble at hand, so it's a piece of cake to replace the out of tune note from a patch with another. And since I'm using Cubase with Expression maps set up, it's just a matter of changing MIDI channels.

I love the flexibility LASS gives and which I can't find in other libraries like Spitfire , Cinematic Strings or VSL. The expression range is excellent (you can actually HEAR the expression change and it doesn't feel like you're only turning up the volume like on many other libraries). At high velocity levels you can even hear the harsh bow and smell the rosin Very useful for violent rhythm parts or themes. Not being able to do that with a library is a deal breaker for me. I also love the way patches are programmed, the sound of the legato (real smooth transition), you can even tweak the portamento speed, slam the short notes with the built-in compressor... And again, with that much divisis and ensembles, I have very different kind of sounds at hand.

The only thing I'm missing is a bow change feature.
I'm not using the ARC for now because I'm already fulfulling all my needs without it. But I'm using the Auto Rhythmic Tool and Auto Arranger a lot. Very useful features!

What I can say is that thanks to LASS I have not been having GAS for years now... this means something. They represent 90% of my strings sounds (the remaining 10% are Symphobia).

Here is a mockup I posted here some weeks ago, strings are 98% LASS 2% Symphobia. I challenge anyone to mockup the first 30s with other libraries and get the same result. This could be very interesting to compare!! I may even reactivate my GAS and buy a new string library, who knows...!


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## Kejero (May 5, 2016)

Mr Pringles said:


> My main complain would be that some notes are out of tune and it's really hurting my ears.



Don't forget there's also a 'tuning' tab in most (all?) patches. I'm not sure if these are active by default, but maybe that's what's causing your problem? You can adjust tuning per register or entirely disable it.


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## Baron Greuner (May 5, 2016)

Mr Pringles said:


> What I can say is that thanks to LASS I have not been having GAS for years now[/MEDIA]



Always handy when socialising.


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## Silence-is-Golden (May 5, 2016)

Mr Pringles said:


> thanks to LASS I have not been having GAS for years now


I also don't know what you mean mr Pringles? 

Do you mean as a result of LASS you could stop eating beans and corndogs? 

Seriously, 'gas' will be abbreviation or so, can you help a poor ignoramus with an explanation? It is something to do with new purchases obviously.

Btw: I will have a listen to your music later on. But I will not chalange that simply because I too am a happy LASS user


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## lucor (May 5, 2016)

GAS = Gear Acquisition Syndrome


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## Silence-is-Golden (May 5, 2016)

lucor said:


> GAS = Gear Acquisition Syndrome


Thank you indeed very much.........unfortunately I suffer similar symptoms. I call it an addition for which I can't find a rehab centre yet


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## Rex282 (May 5, 2016)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Thank you indeed very much.........unfortunately I suffer similar symptoms. I call it an addition for which I can't find a rehab centre yet



I call it a subtraction from my wallet.


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## stevenson-again (May 5, 2016)

Wow. Amazing to think some people have given up on LASS of libs. Each to their own of course but LASS to me is the best programmed string lib I know of. I don't use ARC and maybe thats what puts people off. Like some others have [osted I have the individual artics loaded into kontakt banks. I often blend them with other libs such as spitfire but LASS is still my core.


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## ryanstrong (May 5, 2016)

NoamL said:


> I'm working on a Star Wars fan film right now. Went from *LASS* to *Mural1 *because of a few minor headaches with mixing and balancing LASS and HWB. I found that the Jake Jackson mixes of Mural were really great for achieving the SW sound. But, after actually trying to _write_ with the library (trills... divisis.... fast legato...), I'm going back to LASS.



Yeah I think that's what most of us are saying.... we love LASS as an instrument but not the sound; and with other libraries we like the sound not the playability.

It seems to me we just need the right two people to make a library. Someone with good sonic taste partnered with someone with good scripting taste. The Steve and the Woz.


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## stevenson-again (May 5, 2016)

+1 Ryanstrong


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## Ashermusic (May 5, 2016)

I am guessing that the Audiobro folks will not be amused by the suggestion that they lack "good sonic taste"


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 6, 2016)

I doubt it too, and to me it's not a very good comment.

First, "most of us" is dubious. Judging by the number of people who bought and use the library, actually, I'd want to put a much finer point on that.

But of course I'm way too polite to do that.

The main thing is that "good sonic taste" is subjective. I like the way LASS sounds, and I also like the way you can blend the first chairs with other libraries (notably Hollywood Strings).

You could also take Ray's comment to mean that other libraries aren't programmed well, which is also open to debate. More than debate, lots of shouting. 

People have different ideas about how things should sound and how they should work. Cinematic Strings is very quick to use, for example. Is that weak programming because of what it doesn't do? Does it suffer from questionable sonic taste? To me it would be worth buying just for the ensemble pizz/Bartok pizz program.


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## NYC Composer (May 6, 2016)

I have full LASS and LS, HS Gold, EWQLSO, CS 2, Soaring Strings and some solo strings. It should be enough (other than the ultimate solo strings) but I'm apparently an addict.


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## Baron Greuner (May 7, 2016)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> But of course I'm way too polite to do that.



Pah!


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## Ashermusic (May 8, 2016)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I doubt it too, and to me it's not a very good comment.
> 
> First, "most of us" is dubious. Judging by the number of people who bought and use the library, actually, I'd want to put a much finer point on that.
> 
> ...



Yep. We like what we like. For me, ultimately I did not stick with LASS but that means absolutely nothing other than I personally liked other libraries better but that gives me no expectation that anyone else should agree. I have heard some great work done with it and with pretty much all its competitors.


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## Vik (Dec 1, 2017)

Not sorry for bumping an old thread, so....: 

In spite of some of the reservations from existing LASS users in this thread, LASS is in many ways so close to the kind of next library I want/need. I know all the recordings aren't 100% perfect/all the players aren't always totally in tune, and maybe the UI could be streamlined.

But are you LASS enthusiasts still as enthusiastic as you usually seem to be? Anyone who want to post a few wise words before I make the final decision about LASS/LASS Legato Sordino or both?


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## ryanstrong (Dec 1, 2017)

Vik said:


> Not sorry for bumping an old thread, so....:
> 
> In spite of some of the reservations from existing LASS users in this thread, LASS is in many ways so close to the kind of next library I want/need. I know all the recordings aren't 100% perfect/all the players aren't always totally in tune, and maybe the UI could be streamlined.
> 
> But are you LASS enthusiasts still as enthusiastic as you usually seem to be? Anyone who want to post a few wise words before I make the final decision?


LASS was the gold standard for a string sample library for me. Went on everything. Now it's Spitfire Chamber Strings. I've been using "Sable" since it came out and haven't went back to LASS for "workhorse" string situations.

My biggest issue was it was just too harsh and brittle and I was constantly trying to EQ it, stage it, reverb it, etc. With Spitfire Chamber String I just put a splosh of reverb on for tail and I'm done.

Like anything... "it all depends" but for me... I've moved on.


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## lupaul (Dec 1, 2017)

I still love the portamento script in LASS. General sound is a little bit to harsh for me, but when I need 50’s or 60’s style of strings with a lot of portamento moves, LASS vlns are my favorite.


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## Vik (Dec 1, 2017)

Thanks, guys.

The harshness above a certain dynamic level topic is coming back, but I'm kind of thinking that it can be dealt with. Listen, for instance to this clip:
 
Or the clip(s) at the bottom of this page:
http://audiobro.com/demos/music/

Is there really any other library that does exactly this? 

OTOH, if getting things right would be too much hassle with LASS, I would still be interested in LASS Legato Sordino. Sable/SCS may be good as well, for something more intimate than the larger libraries, but with 4/3/3/3/3 players, it will have to be layered with something quite often, I guess. Maybe LASS and Spitfire Chamber Strings will be a good match.


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## sostenuto (Dec 1, 2017)

Vik said:


> Thanks, guys.
> 
> The harshness above a certain dynamic level topic is coming back, but I'm kind of thinking that it can be dealt with. Listen, for instance to this clip:
> 
> ...




Or maybe Audiobro's next creative effort ??? Surely cannot be far away ..... 
Not yet ready to 'jump ship' ......


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## constaneum (Dec 1, 2017)

I've owned a few strings libraries but on and off, I'll still come back to LASS when I wanted certain sounds. It's good for layering as well and man I love those shorts !


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## Batrawi (Dec 1, 2017)

IMO, I think LASS is still one the best (if not the best) sounding string library/closest to the real thing... If only Audiobro revisted the library to eliminate its 2 major party poopers:
1)out of tune notes
2)bumpy legato transitions


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## Vik (Dec 2, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Or maybe Audiobro's next creative effort ??? Surely cannot be far away .....


Looking at their upgrade policy, Audiobro seems to be a very decent company in terms if upgradability and upgrade prices. So should I go for LASS and or LASS LS and they come up with something new and better - that would be good, and not bad news.


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## sostenuto (Dec 2, 2017)

Vik said:


> Looking at their upgrade policy, Audiobro seems to be a very decent company in terms if upgradability and upgrade prices. So should I go for LASS and or LASS LS and they come up with something new and better - that would be good, and not bad news.



Much direct communication after LADD purchase and received amazing assistance with _all_ inquiries ( no problem issues ).
Am very confident, going forward with LASS purchase, that loyalty will be rewarded. 
Most likely choice _here_ is LASS Lite 2 + LASS FC 2 Bundle, and watch a bit to see what develops.....


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## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 2, 2017)

A master working with LASS... (strings are mostly LASS)


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## eboats (Dec 2, 2017)

LASS is still fantastic in my book. I'm waiting for LASS 3 which may be on the way soon.


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## dhowarthmusic (Dec 2, 2017)

Vik said:


> Not sorry for bumping an old thread, so....:
> 
> In spite of some of the reservations from existing LASS users in this thread, LASS is in many ways so close to the kind of next library I want/need. I know all the recordings aren't 100% perfect/all the players aren't always totally in tune, and maybe the UI could be streamlined.
> 
> But are you LASS enthusiasts still as enthusiastic as you usually seem to be? Anyone who want to post a few wise words before I make the final decision about LASS/LASS Legato Sordino or both?


Hi Vik. I would consider Light and Sound Chamber Strings if you don’t already have it while it’s on sale for $149. I have LASS and LASS Sordino but it’s too harsh sounding for me and I rarely use them. The Light and Sound Chamber Strings 2.0 update is great and the playability is really improved on the original version. It also has Sordino too which sounds better than the LASS Sordino in my opinion.


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## JohnG (Dec 2, 2017)

LASS still delivers. Some of the negative posts in this thread are way out of date, in light of the tremendous improvements in the sound and scripting in today's version. Some are kind of silly, like the contention that it's too hard / time consuming to set up. I spend a tremendous amount of time over, say, a month on a new string library sometimes and go through everything, including different mic setups.

If you don't want to do that you can just use ensemble patches and they sound pretty good too.

I don't use LASS all the time but its divisi is I think unequalled and it offers a good sound.


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## Pablocrespo (Dec 2, 2017)

I love lass but if you want to use the smaller sections exposed there are more than a few notes out of tune. 

(Also Audiobro keeps its policy of blacklisting some customer entire countries so we cannot access the page or forums, but that’s another issue)


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## Janos McKennitt (Dec 2, 2017)

Even if LASS is not the latest library and even if there haven't been major updates/upgrades in the last few years, I still love them. I own a lot string libraries, but for me LASS is the best playable library in my temp. There is no big delay when playing legato (as I'm playing every instrument live into the DAW, this is a big deal for me), you can dramatically vary the sound with the ARC and the sound is convincing.

But as JohnG said, the building of a template is a time consuming process and it took me some time to shape the sound I want to have (for sure that's a big contrast to other libraries out there) - but it is definitely worth it. 
I'm very excited to see the new engine they want to implement in new (and hopefully old) librarys of Audiobro (I heard some rumors).


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## Vik (Dec 2, 2017)

Saxer said:


> Still a good library. It has really useful possibilities to make your personal setup. But I don't understand why they don't offer a ready to go setup. All users have to watch this setup video and spend hours to configure. Having done that it's as easy to use as Cinematic Strings. But why don't they offer a bunch of multis with different stage and colour settings that just work?


So - are you (JohnG/others) saying that this isn't necessary anymore? 
I don't mind spending some time setting things up. Always do that anyway. But I've also wondered if LASS at some point will be shipping with more templates/multis, or some other kind of ready-to-go configuration. There could even be downloadable project/song files for the major DAWs.... any kind of solution which would help/reduce the learning process, or at least the make the part of the setup process which is different from other libraries a little smoother.


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## Lex (Dec 2, 2017)

I still use it all the time, in various functions. Still on the oldest 1.0 version I think...works fine.
Very useful if you write divisi, or for adding more focus to the "roomier" libraries. Great stuff.

alex


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## Janos McKennitt (Dec 2, 2017)

If I'm not wrong there is a collection of staging/colors for the LASS ARC in the official audiobro forum. An there are some Kontakt multis in box. But nevertheless you will definitely spend some time with that library. Especially if you want to have your keyswitches and patches customized.


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## clisma (Dec 2, 2017)

Yes, as above, if I’m not mistaken, it does come with some Multis that are already set up with the ARC. And by the way, the ARC is where the learning curve lies. The actual samples are easy to adjust to. And one of the major strengths of LASS, that I have not seen mentioned yet, is that it gels perfectly if you record live strings layered in. It just has the right sound for a small live section to be mixed into it.

Anytime I want to write divisi, which is often for scores, LASS is the workhorse. And with the integrated stage and color it is a simple matter to get very close to the sound you want to hear. It also is very good in combination with other string libraries, because you can always pair it down.


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## ryanstrong (Dec 2, 2017)

I am so use to my own reverbs and EQ plug-ins that I never found a need for ARC to help with coloring the sound. My guess is that it uses Kontakt's EQ and reverbs that are, in my opinion, inferior to say Lexicon and Fabfilter.


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## clisma (Dec 2, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> I am so use to my own reverbs and EQ plug-ins that I never found a need for ARC to help with coloring the sound. My guess is that it uses Kontakt's EQ and reverbs that are, in my opinion, inferior to say Lexicon and Fabfilter.


True of course, but my point was to illustrate that it can be flexible and its “harshness” readily tamed. While I regularly do my own EQing as well, it’s great to dial in something very quickly by using the carefully sculpted presets of ARC’s stage and color and go further from there.


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## ryanstrong (Dec 2, 2017)

clisma said:


> True of course, but my point was to illustrate that it can be flexible and its “harshness” readily tamed. While I regularly do my own EQing as well, it’s great to dial in something very quickly by using the carefully sculpted presets of ARC’s stage and color and go further from there.


Sure but that’s I guess my point… LASS is a library where you have to do work to get it to sound good. This person hasn’t already made the investment you and I already made at that time when libraries like Spitfire Chamber Strings or even Cinematic Studio Strings exist SO at this point in time I would not suggest it to someone who needs a string library.


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## Vik (Dec 2, 2017)

I wouldn’t have bought it for full price, but a lot of this has to do with what kind of string sound each of us a looking for. And while LASS has some good stuff I wish all libraries had, I have also heard clips where some user insist that it sounds great, but I don’t agree, since I know what eg CSS or Berlin can do. I’ve had the same experience with Sable demos: they’re not as impressing knowing what other things I’ve bought (after I first time heard Sable/SCS) can do. 

I also know people who have SSS or other Spitfire libraries who prefer t work in LASS. 

I wrote a list once, in a thread about 8dio Century Strings, of what I’d like to see in future string like libraries, and LASS has several of these things already, like polyphonic legato, multiple small sections and autodivisi. I think many other libraries will get that in the not too distant future. But at least for now, LASS may be a good choice for me, and since several other users seem to be able to get around the need for EQ etc, I should be able to to that as well.


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## Vik (Dec 3, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> Hi Vik. I would consider Light and Sound Chamber Strings if you don’t already have it while it’s on sale for $149. I have LASS and LASS Sordino but it’s too harsh sounding for me and I rarely use them. The Light and Sound Chamber Strings 2.0 update is great and the playability is really improved on the original version. It also has Sordino too which sounds better than the LASS Sordino in my opinion.


Thanks for the suggestion, dhowarth. I check LSCS from time to other, but often end up a little confused. For instance: unfortunately, I don't find this new little demo very convincing:

The little clip they posted here, OTOH, sounds promising:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/lyrical-legato-strings-comparison.66027/page-2#post-4145970

Re the returning comments about the harshness of LASS, combined with the various out there demoing that it doesn't sound harsh: avoid the upper part of the dynamic range seems to be important here. I often avoid that in other libs as well. And if I remember the right: the YouTube clip I posted not long ago in this thread is apparently made without any cumbersome tweaking at all, only the activation of one of the Stage and Color presets LASS come with.

Nevertheless, Light and Sound may be really good value for the money, just like United Strings of Europe, even if neither of these have LASS functions like polyphonic legato, multiple equally sized sections, auto-arranger and so on. This combination of a layer volume curve and a dynamic layer curve is also something I miss in other libraries, and seems to be particularly useful in order to get full value of the lowermost dynamic layer LASS has:


That lowermost of it's four dynamic layers, or actually the presence of 4 dynamic layers, is something which by itself makes LASS more interesting for me than several of the 3-layer libraries. The real bottom line for me is I can achieve what LASS does with either something I already have or something else I'm interested in. The three last LASS users I was in touch with outside this forum, btw, said that it was their main library, many (8-10?) years after it was released.


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## khollister (Dec 3, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> I am so use to my own reverbs and EQ plug-ins that I never found a need for ARC to help with coloring the sound. My guess is that it uses Kontakt's EQ and reverbs that are, in my opinion, inferior to say Lexicon and Fabfilter.



Actually, incorrect. The LASS Stage & Color feature uses IR’s by Numerical Sounds done especially for Audiobro if I recall correctly. They are definitely not the Kontakt effects other than perhaps the IR engine.


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## Leandro Gardini (Dec 3, 2017)

By this time it takes more time to read this entire thread than setup LASS properly.
No way to give up LASS. It has the best fast string legatos up to date and its aggressiveness and divisi features are unmatched. 
I would invest more than three hours to get the benefits of LASS.


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## sinkd (Dec 3, 2017)

khollister said:


> Actually, incorrect. The LASS Stage & Color feature uses IR’s by Numerical Sounds done especially for Audiobro if I recall correctly. They are definitely not the Kontakt effects other than perhaps the IR engine.


This is correct. And the Numerical Sound IRs that are made for Vienna Suite are also very nice with LASS. I try to set my LASS submix at a volume where I rarely push the modwheel volume past about 75%. The library has a lot of bite in the loudest dynamic layers and I think this is where the "harshness" criticism comes in. Sordinos are gorgeous and keyswitch divisi setup is effortless with the included AA Divisi multis. Each section only takes the time you need to create Ensemble, FC, A, B, & C channels; and then you have access to all of the individual sections and first chair in the section.


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## Vik (Dec 3, 2017)

I just checked out some LASS demos on YouTube, and in a few of them, like these two....


... I found the portamentos being kind of too much a few times. Is there a way to control portamento volume/length/speed in LASS?


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## ryanstrong (Dec 3, 2017)

khollister said:


> Actually, incorrect. The LASS Stage & Color feature uses IR’s by Numerical Sounds done especially for Audiobro if I recall correctly. They are definitely not the Kontakt effects other than perhaps the IR engine.


Thank you for the correction. Either way I'm not a fan of the sound. It's subjective, obviously, but in general I'm not a fan of IR's, I prefer algorithmic reverbs for samples. I don't like using samples to trigger samples (IR's). But a lot of big names use Altiverb etc. so again purely subjective opinion.

ANYWAY I'll leave with this, I just think sampling has progressed a great deal since LASS was released 7+ years ago and there are better string libraries out there. BUT the fact that we are having this discussion shows that they still put up a fight!


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## robgb (Dec 3, 2017)

Vik said:


> OTOH, if getting things right would be too much hassle with LASS, I would still be interested in LASS Legato Sordino. Sable/SCS may be good as well, for something more intimate than the larger libraries, but with 4/3/3/3/3 players, it will have to be layered with something quite often, I guess. Maybe LASS and Spitfire Chamber Strings will be a good match.


The demo sounds pretty terrific to me. I have so many string libraries, but this may have convinced me to spring for LASS.


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## robgb (Dec 3, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> I just think sampling has progressed a great deal since LASS was released 7+ years ago and there are better string libraries out there.



Hmm. I don't know about you, of course, but I've found that many people are seduced by the new libraries because of the fact that they aren't recorded dry, so they're never really a challenge to use in terms of creating a room sound. It's all packaged for us. And for many that's enough. But that doesn't make them better string libraries, only different. Frankly, I prefer the dry sounds of LASS and VSL and others (fewer and fewer are available these days), even if you have to work a little harder on your mix to get them to sound just right.


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## dhowarthmusic (Dec 3, 2017)

khollister said:


> Actually, incorrect. The LASS Stage & Color feature uses IR’s by Numerical Sounds done especially for Audiobro if I recall correctly. They are definitely not the Kontakt effects other than perhaps the IR engine.


The IR’s by Numerically Sound are a separate product that you can purchase here http://www.numericalsound.com/hollywood-sound-timbral-impulse-the-lass-edition.html

I have them and they are far superior to the Stage and Color impulses that come with LASS.


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## gjelul (Dec 3, 2017)

Give up LASS?

Why? - they sound great!


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## ryanstrong (Dec 3, 2017)

Again I don't think LASS is BAD... it's just a contextual decision one has to make. What do you need?

Here is an example, all LASS, that I think for this context it works great!


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## LamaRose (Dec 3, 2017)

Don't own LASS, but I've always been impressed with/drawn to their distinctive tone... the sordinos in particular. And the clarity of those divisi sections would make for a wonderful, real-time writing tool.


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## Saxer (Dec 3, 2017)

Vik said:


> This combination of a layer volume curve and a dynamic layer curve is also something I miss in other libraries, and seems to be particularly useful in order to get full value of the lowermost dynamic layer LASS has


Light&Sound Chamber Strings have a single "range and split " slider for that. It's not as detailed with two CC maps but you can adjust the range of the dynamic layers. Very nice feature.


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## Vik (Dec 4, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> Again I don't think LASS is BAD... it's just a contextual decision one has to make. What do you need?
> 
> Here is an example, all LASS, that I think for this context it works great!



Thanks for the example, ryanstrong. As long as there's a way to adjust the relatively long/slow and relatively loud portamentos in that example, I'm happy. OTOH, if that's not an option: I still know that lots of good stuff can be done with LASS, but that specific problem - portamentos of a kind which one usually never hears in real strings and which (to me!) sound exaggerated - is the main reason behind my frustrations with Spitfire Mural. I resolved those frustrations by moving on to Berlin Strings and CSS, but should I invest in LASS now, I would need to know if there are ways for the users to control these portamentos. And unfortunately, it doesn't help much of others think they sound great. VSL Synchron is soon out and cost less than LASS, and Century Strings will be released in a week: https://8dio.com/2017/11/13/century-countdown/
Neither of these have the functions LASS has, but I feel a need to verify if there are other ways to deal with loud/long/slow portamentos in LASS than simply not using them.


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## Janos McKennitt (Dec 4, 2017)

You can adjust the portamento with certain velocity layers. So if you want for example no "long portamento" at all, you can turn them off. Nevertheless, as far as I know there is no way to control its loudness with a controller. But I never had the intent of doing that.
I think it depends on the context you make use of the portamentos. I tend to use these portamentos just when I specifically want to pronouce it and have them in front of a melody line. Sometimes when I want to reduce it a little I put them just on one divisi and let the second divisi play the same line without portamento. This way you have it a little more "behind the curtain".


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## Vik (Dec 4, 2017)

Janos McKennitt said:


> Nevertheless, as far as I know there is no way to control its loudness with a controller


Thanks, I actually was just told that both cc83 and cc111 would be useful, and checked the manual. CC83 is used to control the speed of the portamentos or glissandos: "Use CC83 to control the speed of the portamento. When CC83 is at zero, you’ll get the slowest portamento. The higher the CC83 value, the faster the portamento. When CC83 is at 127, the portamento almost sounds like a clean legato." 

CC111 seems to be used for turning on/off the legato mode. So while the actual portamento/legato _volume_ may not be controllable, CC83 may do the trick.


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## clisma (Dec 4, 2017)

One way I use to get moderate control over the volume of the portamento is to use divisi sections for a unison line, then draw in the portamento only for one of the stands, usually A or B, as they’re confined to only 4 players. Doesn’t always work but depending on the tempo of the passage, it can.


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## Casiquire (Dec 4, 2017)

This is one of my favorite libraries ever, still a major workhorse library for me, so of course I'm chiming in.

Two things to note here: you don't need to do almost *any* work to take advantage of the included colors. There's an on/off button in each patch and a dropdown to choose which color. That's IT. The Batman color, for example, doesn't sound harsh even at the highest dynamic. These colors show how versatile the library is because they're fashioned after various different movies and each sounds very unique and good in its own way.

Second, as far as control over transitions, the library was recorded with true legato, portamento, and glissando. Each of these, to varying degrees of usefulness, can be speed-controlled in real time. I actually take advantage of this often--if I'm doing sort of an ostinato line, rather than using round-robins which sound a bit less subtle, I'll use a glissando or portamento transition and raise the speed knob to the maximum, which essentially makes it sound like an alternate legato sample. Since the ending note is still recorded at pitch, the effect is more subtle than the standard neighbor-tone round-robin.

I agree that setup can be a bit of a hassle, but I think people put too much emphasis on it in the first place. You can really just load individual patches and play, just like any other library.


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## JohnG (Dec 4, 2017)

Vik said:


> some other kind of ready-to-go configuration



I'm not exactly sure what people are talking about, honestly. There are divisi patches but also full section patches if you want to bypass those.


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## Vik (Dec 4, 2017)

Casiquire said:


> I agree that setup can be a bit of a hassle, but I think people put too much emphasis on it in the first place. You can really just load individual patches and play, just like any other library.





JohnG said:


> m not exactly sure what people are talking about, honestly. There are divisi patches but also full section patches if you want to bypass those.


Thanks.

To me it seems as if LASS has several special things about it that no other library seems to have. Maybe there will be a new version with new samples and a new UI; but until then, this seems to be one of the few 'old' libraries that still has something to offer over the others. 

But I still don't quite get what it is that the setup has to be a hassle/exactly what people are talking about either. 

Let's say some person buys LASS and spends some hours setting it up. If other/new/existing LASS users out there could use his setup, why aren't there project files for the main DAWs ready to download somewhere? 

And since the stage/colors now can be loaded directly into each preset, from a menu: maybe there isn't so much to setup anymore? Is it about configuring auto-arrange/auto-divisi maybe?

If all or most of this could have been addressed by some pool of various useful ready-to-go templates for Cubase, Pro Tools, Logic etc, I guess people could share/sell such templates or actually they could be made available for instance at Audiobro's own site. Or am I misunderstanding something? Even if there would be, say, 5 different and equally useful ways to create such a template, there could still be 5 Cubase projects, 5 Logic projects and so forth, which could eliminate years of comments about LASS being more difficult to set up than others.


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## sinkd (Dec 5, 2017)

I could literally rebuild my LASS setup in DP in 5 minutes. The most time consuming (another 5 minutes) thing is replacing the 'sordino-izer' patches in the keyswitch multis with LASS _Legato Sordino. _One Kontakt instance for each section. MIDI channels 12-16 hit the Auto Arranger full ensemble, first chairs and A/B/C sections. Done. If you have to customize your keyswitches, then that is another story. True, it was not this easy in earlier versions (like 6 years ago?) I do remember taking a couple of hours to set up keyswitches the first time, before it was scripted to access all 4 16-channel banks in a single Kontakt instance.


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## Ale8ory (Dec 5, 2017)

I very nearly bought another string library during the sales but LASS does everything I need it to do. The divisi is a life-saver for my workflow. The only thing I could complain about is the lack of celli trills. Andrew had said they ran out of time to do those. 

Which brings me to my other complaint: Audiobro is very very slow to update. It's been nearly three years since the promised update to LADD. And apparently they are always working on something big but the years go by... they've said that LASS 3 is not on the horizon.


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## Vik (Dec 5, 2017)

Ale8ory said:


> they've said that LASS 3 is not on the horizon.


Could that mean that some other string products is in he works?


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## Janos McKennitt (Dec 5, 2017)

Actually to follow the rumors, they are working on a new engine for their samples. And the first library with that engine won't be strings. But I'd a guess I'd think a string update will be next to it.


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## LHall (Apr 7, 2018)

I was considering the possibility of getting Spitfire Chamber Strings to combine with LASS. I'm a huge fan and user of LASS since it came out. But I was thinking of using the sections of SCS as the "A" sections of each instrument - just to give LASS some extra variety. For instance I might use SCS Violins 1 (4 players) and combine them with LASS Vi IB and VI IC to comprise my first violin section. 

I was curious if anyone has tried this combination?


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## ryanstrong (Apr 7, 2018)

LHall said:


> I was considering the possibility of getting Spitfire Chamber Strings to combine with LASS. I'm a huge fan and user of LASS since it came out. But I was thinking of using the sections of SCS as the "A" sections of each instrument - just to give LASS some extra variety. For instance I might use SCS Violins 1 (4 players) and combine them with LASS Vi IB and VI IC to comprise my first violin section.
> 
> I was curious if anyone has tried this combination?


I did this for awhile, but ended up just mostly using SCS.

If you do not have SCS and have the budget to get them... they are the best strings out there IMO. Great as a stand-alone or combination library.


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 7, 2018)

ryanstrong said:


> I did this for awhile, but ended up just mostly using SCS.
> 
> If you do not have SCS and have the budget to get them... they are the best strings out there IMO. Great as a stand-alone or combination library.



I have SCS, 8dio Adagio/Agitato and LASS. I find that the first two and last two blend ok (with the help of SPAT/eq on either but SF) but blending SCS and LASS was sort or confusing and underwhelming. But that was when I tried it a couple years ago.


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## jononotbono (Apr 7, 2018)

So... should I buy HZ Strings?

Sorry. Too soon? Haha!


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## Hanu_H (Apr 7, 2018)

LASS is still my go to library. I use it on every cue I write. I also love layering it with Soaring Strings and Adventure Strings for more epic and adventurous sound. Layering LASS with DaCapo's strings works really well on low dynamics.

-Hannes


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## Casiquire (Apr 7, 2018)

LASS is one of my main libraries too. I'm such a fanboy


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## muziksculp (Apr 7, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> LASS is one of my main libraries too. I'm such a fanboy



Do you use it with ARC, or just as any other library by loading the desired patches into Kontakt ?


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## sostenuto (Apr 7, 2018)

Good to see another enthusiastic Thread re. LASS !  
Very happy LADD User here, but have procrastinated excessively over adding various LASS offerings as my first dedicated String Library. 
Most likely choice now would be Lite 2 + FC 2 Bundle. New announcement of OT_ FC 2.0 _derailed_ me again .....


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## constaneum (Apr 7, 2018)

Haha but OT FC 2, not sure whether legato has improved ?


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## Hanu_H (Apr 8, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Do you use it with ARC, or just as any other library by loading the desired patches into Kontakt ?


I use it with ARC, I have all the articulations loaded and the keyswitches are consistent(out of the range of any instrument.) I try to match all the libraries to this setup as good as possible. So if I copy a line from strings to woodwinds, I don't have to mess with keyswitches at all.

-Hannes


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## Casiquire (Apr 8, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Do you use it with ARC, or just as any other library by loading the desired patches into Kontakt ?



It depends on the project. If I am doing just strings I may use the ARC and get a lot of mileage out of the Stage and Color but if I need to blend it with other libraries I'm more likely to either use it dry or run it through the Stage just to "center" sections before doing my own panning. So it's half and half and I find it perfectly usable without the ARC. I don't think people should let it confuse them so much.


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## PeterJCroissant (Apr 8, 2018)

LASS.... legato Tremelos... = yummy

The only library I know of that has such patches... ?


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## dhlkid (Apr 8, 2018)

Maybe only spiccato slam and harmonic patch


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## TeamLeader (Apr 8, 2018)

PeterJCroissant said:


> LASS.... legato Tremelos... = yummy
> 
> The only library I know of that has such patches... ?



We have them also in our spitfire libs. - legato trems


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## Vik (Apr 8, 2018)

PeterJCroissant said:


> LASS.... legato Tremelos... = yummy
> 
> The only library I know of that has such patches..


Berlin Strings have many articulations with legatos, because you can add legato to most long notes - including trills, repetitions and several tremolos. There's even a pizzicato tremolo!


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## pderbidge (Apr 8, 2018)

If anyone thinks that Lass is too complicated I will just say that for a beginner like myself who has only started learning the art of midi mockups a few years ago, I have had no issues getting it to sound good. I don't use the ARC, I just use the individual sections and arts. Since I'm not orchestrating it's not a cumbersome thing to do. What I find unique about dry libraries like Lass is that although at first pass the sound may be a bit brittle, as you add more sections to the arrangement the sound just comes alive and what once sounded raw and brittle is actually what adds realism to the arrangement and it doesn't sound brittle anymore. Of course, reverb and eq are a must so you have to get your hands dirty and start learning to master those tools, but I think that's something any midi composer must learn anyways these days. I also use the stage and color quite a bit.

Let me give my "opinion" about a couple of the concerns mentioned here (indulge me)

*Out of tune notes:* It was hard for me at first to accept the idea of a library where the tuning wasn't perfect. This was done on purpose as I understand. But it never became a big issue for me. As I layered the sections the slightly out of tune notes had the effect of sounding bigger, sort of like detune on a synth. Also this is closer to real life as there is no orchestra that is "perfectly" in tune, believe me I was a trombone player in a band (not orchestra but still). The very few times that it was an issue for me I was able to just isolate the offending note and autotune it. Easy for me, since I bounce all my tracks to audio and do my final mix that way. In contrast I found that libraries that are perfectly in tune can have a more synthy effect when layered if you're not careful.

*Using the Lass engine with a different (some say more pleasing) tone:* I think that's not the point of Lass. It's tone, for better or worse, is about a dry string sound. With any dry string sound it is going to have that raw and sometimes harsh sound. With Lass it's about the end result and not the one note instant gratification. The problem with non dry strings is that you are stuck with that baked in hall sound and there really is no way to change it. Lass, on the other hand, allows you to make it sound how "you" want it to sound, given you learn to master the necessary tools like reverb and eq. But even then, if you don't want to spend a lot of time massaging the sound you now have stage and color and they work beautifully. Just pick a sound (named after famous movies) and run with it. So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't know if the Lass engine would work well with the tone of wet libraries like CS2 or Spitfire. Essentially when people say they don't like the tone of Lass, I think what they don't like is how dry it is vs a library with baked in room sound. Once you start layering sections and adding reverb and eq all of that goes away.

*Final thought: *Every string library is going to need some massaging. Even the ones with that "instant" sound so expect to do some work if you want to get something back from it or you will find yourself buying up every string library out there and still not being satisfied. Lass isn't the end all be all, but it is the goto for me. I think the point of any Library is it's end result. What sold me on Lass was both the demos from Audiobro and Lass Users that I looked up on Soundcloud. I didn't want to know what Lass sounded like out of the box but rather what it was capable of (the end result). Out of all the string libraries, even the current ones (minus the new spitfire offerings since Albion was the only offering at the time I purchased Lass), I just favored what I was hearing from Lass (and orchestral tools by the way). I tried to listen to a lot of different styles so I wasn't too swayed by the fact that I might have just liked the demo song itself, but I'm sure that swayed me too.


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## PeterJCroissant (Apr 8, 2018)

Vik said:


> Berlin Strings have many articulations with legatos, because you can add legato to most long notes - including trills, repetitions and several tremolos. There's even a pizzicato tremolo!





TeamLeader said:


> We have them also in our spitfire libs. - legato trems



Ahh I stand corrected, In which spitfire library would they be in?


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## Vik (Apr 8, 2018)

PeterJCroissant said:


> Ahh I stand corrected, In which spitfire library would they be in?


Spitfire Chamber Strings has legato tremolos. I don't think I've seen it in SSS, but could be wrong.


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## Casiquire (Apr 8, 2018)

LASS also has legato trills, plus they can be portamento or glissando as well, and all of this can go through its sul pont filter. Of course I'd prefer these to be true recorded articulations but the filter does sound good.

@pderbidge I like reading your thoughts because they echo some things that I feel myself about the library, like how you don't need to fuss over parts you don't want to use. You can just plug up a standard legato patch and play.

As for the brittle sound, I don't experience this almost at all when I keep the modwheel in the 40s or so, only going above 60s or 70s for very loud forte moments. It's curious how the dynamics are laid out and quite different from most libraries, but that's the trick. Doing this also helps you appreciate just how extreme the fortissimo can get.


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## Tekkera (Apr 9, 2018)

PeterJCroissant said:


> LASS.... legato Tremelos... = yummy
> 
> The only library I know of that has such patches... ?


Spitfire strings with actual sampled tremolo legato, and also Berlin's capability to add legato to any articulation


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## Saxer (Apr 9, 2018)

Light&Sound Chamber Strings have legato tremolos too.

http://lightandsoundsamples.com/chamberstrings.html (patch list at the bottom)


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## Vik (Nov 5, 2021)

I just came across this piece again...

...and I'm still fascinated by some of the stuff LASS could do back when very few other libraries could do the same. Are you guys still having LASS 2.5 as your go to library?


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## muziksculp (Nov 5, 2021)

Vik said:


> I just came across this piece again...
> 
> ...and I'm still fascinated by some of the stuff LASS could do back when very few other libraries could do the same. Are you guys still having LASS 2.5 as your go to library?



Nope. But looking forward to use LASS 3.0 when it's released.


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## Casiquire (Nov 5, 2021)

Vik said:


> I just came across this piece again...
> 
> ...and I'm still fascinated by some of the stuff LASS could do back when very few other libraries could do the same. Are you guys still having LASS 2.5 as your go to library?



I wouldn't call it my go-to anymore, but it's one of my favorites and it can do a lot. The new interface will breathe new life into it and I'll probably use it more often again


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## sostenuto (Nov 5, 2021)

LASS ???


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## odod (Nov 5, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> LASS ???


L.A Scoring Strings by Audiobro


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## sostenuto (Nov 5, 2021)

odod said:


> L.A Scoring Strings by Audiobro


Sorry ... pithy attitude tonight. Have LADD _ considered LASS but mausoleum-quiet and looking at other 'noisier' sources. 👻


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