# Amateur looking for M1 Pro/Max advice from real world users - compromises need to be made...



## beachbum (Mar 15, 2022)

Long time reader, first time poster. I'm experiencing option paralysis with the new mac lineups and could use some direction/advice from people with real world experience. What should I prioritize? Should I put my money into portability vs. performance? Ram vs. internal storage? 

Been saving for 10 years for a computer, so I have enough for a nice machine. I'm considering the configurations below, prices in $CAD 

14" M1 Pro 10/14 32GB Ram, 4TB SSD - $4,749
14" M1 Max 10/24 64GB Ram, 2TB SSD - $4,899
Would use remain cash for affordable 32" 4K monitor to offset 14" screen.

Studio M1 Max 10/24 64GB RAM, 4TB SSD - $4,449 + premium 4k screen
Studio M1 Ultra 20/48 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD - $4,999 + existing 24" monitors
Studio M1 Ultra 20/48 128GB RAM, 1TB SSD - $5,999 + eat Kraft dinner for 6 months

More ram means more future proofing I figure. From what I've read, I think 32gb is just enough for what I do today. but 1-2 years from now I could see myself pushing 64gb+ or more. 

Current setup: 2012 Macbook Pro w/16gb ram 500GB SSD and 2TB disc drive in DVD tray. External Samsung 2TB T5. Dell 24" monitor and Metric Halo interface running on Ethernet. Lots of physical instruments and effects. Lots of plugins. Track counts get high and I (used to) even recorded live bands with with 30+ tracks simultaneously. Working more and more with orchestral libraries in my spare time, but current setup makes it very clunky and time consuming to put together. 

For sample library performance now, the T5 has been good enough but I could easily do 6-8TB of samples with everything I've accumulated. Was looking to add a 4TB 870 EVO, but waiting to decide computer configuration first. 

I used to move around a lot, but my laptop has been glued to one spot since the pandemic and working exclusively by myself now. I haven't upgraded my setup because of how dependant I was on firewire bus-powered interfaces, but now not sure what future may hold - if I should invest in a better performance machine or put that money in laptop mobility. Optimally, would keep my new machine as long as current one, so future proofing for at least 5+ years would be ideal.


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## Cdnalsi (Mar 15, 2022)

I say go for the Studio M1 Ultra with 128GB of RAM and Kraft dinners if you're going to be stuck at a desk. The 14" M1 Max MBP with 64GB of RAM if you need to be portable at all.

For me, my M1 Pro 16" with 16GB of RAM is such a huge upgrade from my old 2018 MBP it's not even funny. I suspect it'll be even more so for you as it's a bigger jump.

The M1 CPUs are ridiculously powerful and can handle EVERYTHING. Heck even with the 16GB of RAM I could afford when I got this machine I'm running 300+ orchestral (Spitfire, Kontakt) tracks in Logic and while my RAM is maxed out, the CPU is barely breaking a sweat. Haven't even been able to ramp up the fans yet. And I also mix everything with compressors, EQs and Reverb IRs on every channel. No clicks, no pops no slowdowns, nothing.

Go for as much RAM as you can afford and you can always supplement SSDs with Samsungs T5 and T7s, I do the same. Don't worry about the CPUs they are ridiculous, even the M1 Pro.


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## Antonio Zarza (Mar 15, 2022)

Also, have you find if you could apply to the 10% discount for university students? Maybe you can reduce the amount a little bit with extra discounts and go for the Max configuration portable or Ultra in the Studio one.


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## Jett Hitt (Mar 15, 2022)

I had the same dilemma, though with different priorities. Apple has cleverly priced this machine so that there aren't any good options without spending a bundle. Any way you parse it, you can't get to 128GB of RAM without adding $2200. I mulled this over for quite a while. So long, in fact, that the ship date for the Ultra was three months out.

I contemplated the lifespan of this machine, and I realized that tech just becomes obsolete a lot more quickly than it used to. (I am replacing a 2010 5,1.), and I didn't want to be married to a really expensive machine that was already obsolete in a few years' time. (Pity the 2019 Mac Pro buyers.) When it was all said and done, I decided that I just couldn't justify the expense for the RAM, and I ordered the Max 64GB and a 2TB. If I had this to do over, I'd probably just get the 1TB. I think that the ports are fast enough that you can't justify the cost of Apple's hard drive space. Because libraries are cut up into so many small files, musicians can't really take advantage of the blazing fast speed of these SSDs, or not fully anyway.

The Ultra machine is definitely geared toward video editors, and we musicians just get trapped in the vortex. There is just a whole lot of power in all the wrong places for a musician. In the end, I decided that I could spend $3k now and another $3k in five years more justifiably than $5.2k now. I see the Ultra as too big of a gamble on misallocated power.

As for the Macbook Pros, only do that if you absolutely have to be portable.


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## beachbum (Mar 15, 2022)

Antonio Zarza said:


> Also, have you find if you could apply to the 10% discount for university students? Maybe you can reduce the amount a little bit with extra discounts and go for the Max configuration portable or Ultra in the Studio one.


I have a close family member working for Apple, so I think I can get 15% off with him, assuming high demand doesn't remove the option for employee discount.



Jett Hitt said:


> I had the same dilemma, though with different priorities. Apple has cleverly priced this machine so that there aren't any good options without spending a bundle. Any way you parse it, you can't get to 128GB of RAM without adding $2200. I mulled this over for quite a while. So long, in fact, that the ship date for the Ultra was three months out.
> 
> I contemplated the lifespan of this machine, and I realized that tech just becomes obsolete a lot more quickly than it used to. (I am replacing a 2010 5,1.), and I didn't want to be married to a really expensive machine that was already obsolete in a few years' time. (Pity the 2019 Mac Pro buyers.) When it was all said and done, I decided that I just couldn't justify the expense for the RAM, and I ordered the Max 64GB and a 2TB. If I had this to do over, I'd probably just get the 1TB. I think that the ports are fast enough that you can't justify the cost of Apple's hard drive space. Because libraries are cut up into so many small files, musicians can't really take advantage of the blazing fast speed of these SSDs, or not fully anyway.
> 
> ...


This is what I needed to hear. I can do the Studio M1 Max 10/24 64GB RAM, 1GB, buy some externals and a monitor and still save some cash for a refresh a few years down the line.


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## Jett Hitt (Mar 15, 2022)

beachbum said:


> This is what I needed to hear. I can do the Studio M1 Max 10/24 64GB RAM, 1GB, buy some externals and a monitor and still save some cash for a refresh a few years down the line.


I think that this is the sweet spot. I have the advantage of being able to slave some other machines if I really need the RAM, but probably I'll just try to stay within the confines of 64GB.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 16, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> In the end, I decided that I could spend $3k now and another $3k in five years more justifiably than $5.2k now


That’s possibly the most rational argument I’ve heard yet on the 64/128 conundrum.


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## LatinXCombo (Mar 16, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> In the end, I decided that I could spend $3k now and another $3k in five years more justifiably than $5.2k now. I see the Ultra as too big of a gamble on misallocated power.


Or as the economists say, "more money now is better than more money later." #MicroEconomicsFTW


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## nas (Mar 17, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> The M1 CPUs are ridiculously powerful and can handle EVERYTHING. Heck even with the 16GB of RAM I could afford when I got this machine I'm running 300+ orchestral (Spitfire, Kontakt) tracks in Logic and while my RAM is maxed out, the CPU is barely breaking a sweat. Haven't even been able to ramp up the fans yet. And I also mix everything with compressors, EQs and Reverb IRs on every channel. No clicks, no pops no slowdowns, nothing.
> 
> Go for as much RAM as you can afford and you can always supplement SSDs with Samsungs T5 and T7s, I do the same. Don't worry about the CPUs they are ridiculous, even the M1 Pro.


That's interesting. I'm sold on the M1 Ultra but still on the fence with RAM. Given your observations with your setup, do you feel like you would still be maxed out with 64GB of Unified Memory (I understand that the MacBook Pros max out at 32GB) ? 

I run about the same amount of VI tracks 300+ (actually 200-300 VEP instances but with multiple instruments in each Kontakt instance of VEP), but still lots of samples loaded into memory. On an Intel machine with 64GB of RAM I'm already maxed out and find that I need to turn some instances off that aren't being used just to save on RAM - but that's on an Intel PC slave. 

I'm wondering if I can comfortably getaway with 64GB in a Mac Studio Ultra without having to turn off instances?


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## Cdnalsi (Mar 17, 2022)

nas said:


> That's interesting. I'm sold on the M1 Ultra but still on the fence with RAM. Given your observations with your setup, do you feel like you would still be maxed out with 64GB of Unified Memory (I understand that the MacBook Pros max out at 32GB) ?
> 
> I run about the same amount of VI tracks 300+ (actually 200-300 VEP instances but with multiple instruments in each Kontakt instance of VEP), but still lots of samples loaded into memory. On an Intel machine with 64GB of RAM I'm already maxed out and find that I need to turn some instances off that aren't being used just to save on RAM - but that's on an Intel PC slave.
> 
> I'm wondering if I can comfortably getaway with 64GB in a Mac Studio Ultra without having to turn off instances?


I'm not familiar with how VEP handles memory, but Logic does it brilliantly for me. My current template is BBCSO (all instruments on separate articulation tracks) + AR2 (all instruments on separate articulation tracks) + Spitfire Originals + SA Recordings + sforzando + Kontakt multiple tracks for band (rhythm section, drums, percussion, synths) + a bunch of u-he ZebraCM, Podolski, TripleCheese synths, Pendulate, and some other small ones here and there.

Everything loaded into RAM and ready to sequence live with the following settings:

Logic:
Buffer Size: 128 Samples / 9,9ms Roundtrip Latency (5,7ms Output)
Processing Threads: 8 (8 High Performance Cores)
Multithreading: Playback & Live Tracks

Spitfire Plugin (for both BBCSO and AR2):
Preload Size = 6288 (half of default)
Stream Buffer Size = 33236 (half of default)

Kontakt:
Instrument Preload Buffer Size = 12.00kB

I lowered these to half and even more on Kontakt because the internal SSD on these MBPs is ridiculously fast and I haven't had any clicks or pops or any streaming problems. And it saves a little bit of RAM.

I'm still maxed out, check out the screenshot:






Even like this here's no slowdowns, I'm not getting any hiccups what-so-ever, perhaps because using 4-5GB of Swap and only putting "60% of Pressure" on the system, it's OK.

Still I wish I could have afforded to get the 32GB of RAM but such is life. For my next machine in a few years I'll go 128GB for sure. But for my needs right now at the beginning of my orchestral arranging journey, I'm fine with this setup.

And as you well know by now, the M1s are completely bonkers when it comes to performance, to give you an idea, when ALL the tracks are playing (I made a stress test), this is how the M1 Pro is handling it:












Fans aren't even spinning up. It's ridiculous. Hope this helps, but I'm sure you'll be just fine with 64GB of RAM. You'll love it!


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## HCMarkus (Mar 17, 2022)

I'll pile on... ordered the Studio Ultra, 64GB Ram, 2TB HD. I've been OK with 48GB RAM on my 12 Core 5,1 Mc Pro, so I'm feeling pretty good about the RAM choice.


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## nas (Mar 17, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> I'm not familiar with how VEP handles memory, but Logic does it brilliantly for me. My current template is BBCSO (all instruments on separate articulation tracks) + AR2 (all instruments on separate articulation tracks) + Spitfire Originals + SA Recordings + sforzando + Kontakt multiple tracks for band (rhythm section, drums, percussion, synths) + a bunch of u-he ZebraCM, Podolski, TripleCheese synths, Pendulate, and some other small ones here and there.
> 
> Everything loaded into RAM and ready to sequence live with the following settings:
> 
> ...


Great post. I'm also on Logic and my understanding is that VEP does an even better job in distributing the load over multiple threads snd is generally more efficient - although I haven't actually tested this myself. I am still considering 128GB but it is pretty steep when you start to add the cost of the Ultra chip, the display, and additional storage etc. and also have to consider that you cannot upgrade the config down the line. 

I do ask myself do I really need the extra headroom? and the answer is that yes I do. Not every project is going to require a very large template, but for those times when you really do need it... then you need it and I would rather consolidate it all onto a single machine (and still use VEP on the single machine as I love the workflow and efficiency it provides) and not have to throw in an additional slave machine to finish the job. 

I guess when we start to see some stress tests show up with the new Ultra chip - hopefully with more realistic workflow scenarios - then It should be a good indicator. Your posts really helped me get an idea what can be expected with AS and it's very promising.

Cheers.


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## nas (Mar 17, 2022)

HCMarkus said:


> I'll pile on... ordered the Studio Ultra, 64GB Ram, 2TB HD. I've been OK with 48GB RAM on my 12 Core 5,1 Mc Pro, so I'm feeling pretty good about the RAM choice.


Congratulations - would be great to hear how its all performing with your setup once you're up and running.


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