# Mixing Advice Needed From Professionals?



## valexnerfarious (Dec 16, 2012)

Why is that many big and well known engineers totally ignore and questions when it comes to asking advice or tips on something some people are just getting into...just seems kind of rude very snobby?....ive always wondered this..its not like were trying to take any buisness or clients from them


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## guydoingmusic (Dec 16, 2012)

Look up Pensado's Place on YouTube. Highly informative and best of all... it's free! 

And one reason a lot don't answer questions, is because they earned what they know the hard way. On their own. Experimentation. Most of the guys I've met aren't snobby... busy maybe... but not snobby.

Also, maybe check out some articles by Michael Brauer. The info is out there. 

And last but not least, there are some pretty good ears on this forum. Post a question or two. See if someone can help.

Best of luck to you!
Brad


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## RiffWraith (Dec 16, 2012)

Not always true.

*John Rodd* was here for a while, and bestowed upon us a good deal of info, and yook the time to answer questions. That is, until he was chased away by unprofessional, rude and childish behaviour.

Hans Zimmer hasn't been here for very long, and I am not sure he has directly answered anyone seeking advice or tips, but he has been far from snobby.

GearSlutz has a bunch of subforums, where famous and popular engineers (Bruce Swedien, for one) answer questions, give advice an tips.

Cheers.


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## valexnerfarious (Dec 16, 2012)

ill be a lil more specific...i was wanting some info and help on how to mix a big orchestration and large choirs with distorted 7 strings guitars...this person had a background with both..and i know there are not many that do that


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## guydoingmusic (Dec 16, 2012)

What specifically are you wanting to know? That's still a very broad description. 

Do you have a rough mix of what you are working on that you can post? 

I think you will find a lot of people here that will be more than willing to chime in and help.


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## gsilbers (Dec 16, 2012)

valexnerfarious @ Sun Dec 16 said:


> ill be a lil more specific...i was wanting some info and help on how to mix a big orchestration and large choirs with distorted 7 strings guitars...this person had a background with both..and i know there are not many that do that



this sound mostly like a big organizational nightmare. a lot of sections, freq , dynamics etc. 

pensados place is good. 

also, groove3.com . check the videos on compression. also the one mixing for rock with pro tools . no matter what style or daw you use , its a very good video. 

and don't get frustrated, no one owes you anything unless you paid for it. 
so try to do your research and ask more specific quesitons. like go to youtube and see if you find recording techniques and mixing techniques for 7 string guitars. (or guitar in genera) via recoding live amps or amp simulators. 
find pieces that sound like yours and see how the guitar and orch were mixed etc. 
maybe see the gear that person has. 
so if you can contact that person. etc etc.


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## passenger57 (Dec 16, 2012)

Yea I second the youtube thing, you can find anything on there. Maybe I can learn to be a brain surgeon one day in my spare time. Also - older experienced dudes mostly just want to chill and be left alone, unless they are teachers.


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## valexnerfarious (Dec 17, 2012)

this is the sort of an idea of the mix...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxbZv1H1Uug


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## Dietz (Dec 17, 2012)

valexnerfarious @ Mon Dec 17 said:


> Why is that many big and well known engineers totally ignore and questions when it comes to asking advice or tips on something some people are just getting into...just seems kind of rude very snobby?....ive always wondered this..its not like were trying to take any buisness or clients from them



Mixing music is not a bag of tricks that you just open (or keep closed jealously, like you insinuate), but a complex form of art that needs different tools and solutions for each and every situation - much like learning an instrument. You wouldn't ask how to play violin on a forum either, would you? 

IOW: The more unspecific your question is, the more it is unlikely that you will get meaningful answers.

What's more - knowing "all the tricks" won't help a bit as long as you didn't learn to hear analytically. Ideally you will hear a certain combination of certain signals, and a unique solution for this unique piece of music, for this certain arrangement, will form in your mind. - Oh, and the prerequisite is a place where you can be certain that you really hear what's in the mix (and not just in your room or monitoring system).

My main profession is mixing music, I do this since almost 25 years now, and I'm still learning each and every day. And I hardly did something the same way twice. 

_(... a well-known colleague of mine once coined the phrase: "Only the first thousand albums are hard to mix." My counter reads around number 300 and something, so I have a few more album mixes to do before it will get easier, hehehe.)_

... so ... what was the question ...? 

Kind regards,

/Dietz


.


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## valexnerfarious (Dec 17, 2012)

just asking for a good starting point..i dont need specifics


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## guydoingmusic (Dec 17, 2012)

valexnerfarious @ Mon Dec 17 said:


> just asking for a good starting point..i dont need specifics


Maybe with my first response in this thread... then work your way down through what everyone else has told you.

The consensus seems to be that no one knows what you are wanting... I'm not trying to be rude. But you are asking a vague question. 

Without hearing the mix... we can't make suggestions. Without detailed specifics of YOUR track you are mixing, there is no way to answer your question. EVERY project is different. Dietz said it earlier that you will rarely mix any 2 projects the same. And there is no magical bag of tricks to just start with.

For your starting point, try bouncing out what you have already and let us take a listen to see if we can help further. Until then, I'm afraid you are going to continue to get the exact same answer--- again and again.

Not trying to be rude. Just trying to point you in the right direction. Again.

Brad


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## valexnerfarious (Dec 17, 2012)

main concern is not wanting the quad tracked guitars to swallow the orchestra and choirs


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## guydoingmusic (Dec 17, 2012)

To me it depends on if there is an Electric or Synth Bass and how much low end is in the instrumentation of the track... again without hearing it... hard to say. 

But "a" starting place would be to maybe mix the four guitars into a subgroup. Pan one all the way left. Pan one all the way right. Then pan the other two equal distance from each other off center without going too wide. 

On the Group Channel/Bus - High pass filter at 100hz... and then there are multiple compression/limiting techniques you can try. I like to brickwall limit my guitars. On the above mentioned Pensado's Place on youtube he gives you multiple looks at options you have. 

Depending on the width you are getting... you may want to throw a stereo widener plugin on the tail end.

Hope this helps some.

Brad


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## guydoingmusic (Dec 17, 2012)

Let me also add... this is a "starting point". you will still have to adjust more eq and compression to taste and to sonically fit. You have to go higher with the High Pass filter on the guitars... or put one on the overall orchestra. Just depends on what needs to carry the energy.


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## Justin Miller (Dec 17, 2012)

Hey man, coming from a metal background I know that it's usually best to get two solid takes and pan them hard right and hard left (especially if its rhythmic like Between the Buried and Me). Specifically, they recorded guitars with an sm57 off-axis and an e609 on-axis. As far as mixing that with orchestra and choir, I would treat this as a good challenge to apply the rule of 2 1/2 (since there are so many instruments going on, try to maintain a maximum of 3 parts and be aware of which of those parts will be least noticed, making the other two as effective as possible. I.e. : guitars > drums > orchestra/choir; or orchestra/choir > guitars > drums.

First, you need to know what you're trying to make it sound like... as in, more heavy w/ epic orchestra backing or more orchestral featuring guitar work.

Use reverb very sparingly with the guitars, little more with the drums, and a bit more with the orchestra/choir.

Use automation to make the mix interesting so the balance can change between sections at times.

Use EQ on the guitars to remove the higher frequencies so the orchestra/choir is more distinct.

It's by nature for distorted guitars to not be very dynamic, so don't try to make them dynamic like an orchestra. Use this to your advantage to make them as present and in-your-face as possible, while making the drums clear, but noticeably farther away with reverb and high-cut.

Choir and orchestra reverb could use eq to heighten the effect of their distance from the guitars, making things feel bigger.

Last, I would use a few plugins like leveler and limiter to give things a unified dB level, and take notice of the rule of 6dB per octave: a good mix is generally at it's peak between 50k-250k and dips about 6dB per octave after that (looks like a smooth slop downward right).


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## guydoingmusic (Dec 17, 2012)

Justin Miller @ Mon Dec 17 said:


> Last, I would use a few plugins like leveler and limiter to give things a unified dB level, and take notice of the rule of 6dB per octave: a good mix is generally at it's peak between 50k-250k and dips about 6dB per octave after that (looks like a smooth slop downward right).



So... what happened to just using your ears... A spectrum analyzer doesn't tell you your mix is good... That's the most backwards thing I have ever heard in my life. Picking up and isolating frequencies is one thing... but to judge a mix completely by the way it looks? Surely you aren't suggesting that...?

If it looks a certain way and sounds like crap, then what?

Brad


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## Rctec (Dec 17, 2012)

May I suggest you actually hire a good engineer? This is not something you can learn overnight. I have spent years in studios, partly engineering. But at the end of the day, I want someone who's really good and experienced to record and mix my music. It's a different sort of talent. It's not just about the technical side, it's finding someone who can take things further than you can. 
Since you have a concept of what you want things to sound like, why not ask that engineer to help you mix things? If it's a question of budget, do what musicians have done forever: beg, borrow, work, sell something - raise the money...It's either important to you, or it's not.
The recording engineers I work with started as tea boys or interns in studios like Trident or The Powerstation in New York. They worked their way up by leaqrning how to listen - which takes a long time - and learn which particular piece of equipment is appropriate for the right sound. It's not something you can just pick up over night, and just like all great things in music...should be fairly compensated for. It's their life, their career.
Now, about your feeling of them displaying hubris. I don't know. This is more than asking for just a quick tip. I think the arrogance is in thinking that one doesn't need someone with experience to do a great job, and that they should do it for free...
Just a quick tought...I'll send you my bill 
-Hz-


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## valexnerfarious (Dec 17, 2012)

thanks hans..just a question how would u approach it with out have to take all the low and balls out of the orchestra mix?


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## Rctec (Dec 17, 2012)

...That is how I would approach it. I spend forever sorting out my mixes in the arrangements before it even gets to the orchestra - let alone the mix room.


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## valexnerfarious (Dec 17, 2012)

have u had any similar type of mix problem like this before that you can remember?


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## Justin Miller (Dec 17, 2012)

Hey Brad, I wasn't saying to only use your eyes to judge the mix. Just from experience, I've had good playback across speakers of all types when my mixes look a certain way. If you hear that there's an obvious error in the frequencies, then it would be stupid not to adjust it. 
Hans is probably right though--if it's feasible to afford someone to do it for you then go for it... although I've done that before and the engineer couldn't really get it to sound how I wanted. Sometimes if you're going for a sound that you are more of a connoisseur in, then you may do a better job.
You could post a rough version so we can get a good idea of what you're after.


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## guydoingmusic (Dec 17, 2012)

Rctec @ Mon Dec 17 said:


> ...That is how I would approach it. I spend forever sorting out my mixes in the arrangements before it even gets to the orchestra - let alone the mix room.



I'm no HZ for sure... but this advice is spot on. The arrangement should be carefully thought through, placing the tones and sounds sonically where they fit. It doesn't make the mix "easy" necessarily, but it helps things fit together in a sonic sense without too much clutter in one particular area. Layering those sounds that compliment each other. This comes with much trial and error. 

Brad


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## valexnerfarious (Dec 22, 2012)

Hans..normally in your workflow,is EQ and compression the first two things you do a track?


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