# Key-switches vs Program Banks



## gsilbers (Nov 6, 2009)

im new to this feature of kontakt and wanted to see how others are dealing with both. 

i have LASS and would like to have keyswitches b/w legato/spicc/stacc/pizz 
but im reading up on program banks and seems to be a good solution also.
i just want to change from one articulation to another without having so many tracks in my template. 

which one is better or how each one is used? 

sorry for the newbie question and thx for you'alls time.


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## gsilbers (Nov 6, 2009)

the K forum dont get much love :(

bump


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## lee (Nov 6, 2009)

You know you can have both? You use keyswitches but they are translated to program change, so you can use banks in kontakt.

http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4383

Or if you wanna use this method (and your host can use mfxscript = Cubase, Sonar):

http://hem.bredband.net/b807883/mfxscript/

/Johnny


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## gsilbers (Nov 6, 2009)

lee @ Fri Nov 06 said:


> You know you can have both? You use keyswitches but they are translated to program change, so you can use banks in kontakt.
> 
> http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4383
> 
> ...



thx

i already read that one.

which is why im asking this question. seems to be pretty similar. seems that bank changes might be a little to complex for what i need. i think i can create keyswitches 
with those articulations and ill be done (in LASS) thus, its why i am wondering why you guys use banks and keyswitches to change those banks (or use bank program changes-whichever)


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## Thonex (Nov 6, 2009)

Hi gslibers,

what DAW are you running?

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## oldbrian (Nov 6, 2009)

gsilbers @ Fri Nov 06 said:


> lee @ Fri Nov 06 said:
> 
> 
> > You know you can have both? You use keyswitches but they are translated to program change, so you can use banks in kontakt.
> ...



The problem with creating keyswitches of heavily scripted instruments is that you'll need customised scripts for the keyswitch combinations if the scripts offer a very different behaviour. Even if the 5 script slots would be enough for you to drop in all the different scripts into one instrument you can't keyswitch scripts on and off unless it's built into them. So judged by your description you do need banks :wink:


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## gsilbers (Nov 6, 2009)

:shock: :shock: wow , u lost me in the 1st sentence :oops: 

but ill take your word for it and use banks. now, how do send bank mesages? 
i have an evolution u control but didnt see anything about bank changes. 
what CC are those?

and is anyone doing bank changes via keyswitch on logic environemnt? seems a little too much stuff.


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## Thonex (Nov 6, 2009)

gsilbers @ Fri Nov 06 said:


> :shock: :shock: wow , u lost me in the 1st sentence :oops:
> 
> but ill take your word for it and use banks. now, how do send bank mesages?
> i have an evolution u control but didnt see anything about bank changes.
> ...



I think you may be misunderstanding something. Using an Instruments Bank in Kontakt is like 1 patch that is like a container holding up to 128 patches. You can read more about it here (for Kontakt 2... but the same thing applies for K3 and 4): http://kevintweedy.net/K2T/K2_InstrumentBanks.htm


Also, page 65 of the K3 manual decribes how to make Instruments Banks.

All you need to do is have Logic transform a Key (played note) to a program change. This is easy in Cubase, Nunedo... I'm sure it's not hard in Logic.

Best,

AK


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## gsilbers (Nov 6, 2009)

im understanding banks more and more. i understand the concept, its the implementation which is bothering me. 

im trying to set the transform tool in logic's environment and right now its like voodoo. 

also, im not getting the "sending bank messeges" i can follow the tutorials and manual but at the time for me to do it with my midi controller (evolution u33 u control) i get stuck. nothing in the manual or anywhere about this. and i already mentioned the transfor tool in logic to change programs bank with keyswitches. 

also. you that now LASS inside and out... can you setup key-switches b/w violas legato, spicc, stacc, tremolo (etc) in one patch
or will it screw the scripting in each patch?


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## wolf (Nov 6, 2009)

GSilbers,

I attached a screenshot (screenshot a) of a simple transformer the transforms the note A2 to a program change that switches to the first sound in an instrument bank (uses 0-logic, so 1st = 0. 2nd = 1...). I place these between the physical input and the sequencer input in the Click&Ports environment layer. Doing it this way, you'd have one transformer for each note - which you then can pack in a macro for easier handling. I did it this way for LASS because I use non-consecutive notes for switching the sounds (because I wanted the notes to match what I had set up for VSL key switching).

If you use consecutive notes, use the transformer of screenshot b, which uses a map to connect notes to program change values. so each midi note number is mapped to a Prg change number (you set this at the bottom left where it says "0 mapped to 0".

btw: I use midi channel 2 for these key switches so they won't interfere with the notes I'm playing = I don't have to worry about range conflicts. I send these ch2 notes from a second keyboard.


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## gsilbers (Nov 6, 2009)

Succes!!! Thx alot for your help. I haven't dealt w that part of logc since v7 

So u mentioned that u use another keyboard to trigger the banks. 

Right now I connected from fisical input to each transformer and then to the seq input but at the Same time one cable straight from fisical to sequencer input .

How would u set up for that second keyboard?
Because if I take out the direct cable I loose midi note inputs

thx again now I can reduce my template considerably


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## wolf (Nov 6, 2009)

The transformers are set "apply operation and filter non matching events", which means midi notes can come in (and any other midi data), but only the program changes will come out. In other words: the musical notes you play would be filtered. 
My solution: I added a Channel Splitter after Physical input and route Ch1 (=music) directly to Sequencer Input and CH2 (=2nd kbd; needs to be set to transmit on CH2) through the transformer. This works conveniently when sending the midi notes that are supposed to become the control changes on Ch2. If that (and a 2nd keyboard, or a zone on your main keyboard the sends on CH2) is not an option for you, try to set the transformers to "apply operation and let non matching events pass thru". 
I find the option with the 2nd kbd, which I use only as a key switcher and controller (Akai MPK49 - great for that!), much more convenient and flexible.


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