# Apple Catalina 32 Bit Obsolescence



## Peaky Blinder (Aug 6, 2019)

Will 32 Lives still be a solution for older things you want to keep using ?


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 6, 2019)

no. 32Lives will probably not work on Catalina either.


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## Peaky Blinder (Aug 7, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> no. 32Lives will probably not work on Catalina either.



Soundradix support does confirm that Mojave will be the last Mac o.s. for 32 Lives support. They did imply they were looking at other solutions for Catalina but no details beyond that.

I wonder if you could still have a pc or Mojave Mac (mini) 32 bit slave machine for non 64 bit instruments ?


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## ironbut (Aug 7, 2019)

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2019/7/25/getting-ready-for-macos-catalina-rooting-out-all-your-32-bit-applications?mc_cid=1a935bda4c&mc_eid=127e3a2a73



Article includes a link for a free app that checks for 64 bit compliance of apps and executables.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 7, 2019)

ironbut said:


> app that checks for 64 bit compliance of apps and executables.



You can just use About This Mac to find 32-bit programs. It's under Legacy Software - a term that annoys me no end. 

My solution for running 32-bit programs is... wait for it... not to update my main machine to Catalina when it comes out. If I need to run something that requires it, it'll be on another computer.



Peaky Blinder said:


> I wonder if you could still have a pc or Mojave Mac (mini) 32 bit slave machine for non 64 bit instruments ?



Of course. That's what I do with a Windows 7/Vienna Ensemble Pro machine now.


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## storyteller (Aug 7, 2019)

My old and trusty B4II by Native Instruments may finally reach its actual EOL. Sad.  Maybe Reaper's 32bit/64bit converter will still work. That's what I've been using so far.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 7, 2019)

Worth mentioning that there are 32-bit programs and 32-bit instruments. 32-bit instruments don't really work on Mojave, never mind future macOS versions. They make noises, but they have graphics problems, at least on my system (which is why I run them on the Windows slave).

32-bit *programs* are a separate issue. For openers, the software that controls my excellent audio interface will stop working on Catalina, so I'd have a choice between a $500 upgrade card for the interface or abandoning it.

(Personal aside: I absolutely don't want to *complain* that Metric Halo offers an upgrade card for the 2882, because I applaud them for continuing to support their products after 19 years. They're a really good company and the interface has been a great investment. But it's still a 19-year-old interface that sells for $1800 new, and $500 isn't a trivial amount of money.)


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## Wunderhorn (Aug 8, 2019)

Drivers for older MOTU audio interfaces may not work either. According to MOTU, further support is not guaranteed.


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## seclusion3 (Aug 8, 2019)

Yes’m there are lots of things that currently won’t work.
I get warnings in Mojave for Presonus Quantum, Roland usb midi, Yamaha CP4 usb midl and some other essential gear. Usually I’m goofing with a beta Os on an external drive just to see if it’s ok. I’ve not done so until I know If there’s a work around with $, I’ll hold tight.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 8, 2019)

seclusion3 said:


> Yes’m there are lots of things that currently won’t work.
> I get warnings in Mojave for Presonus Quantum, Roland usb midi, Yamaha CP4 usb midl and some other essential gear. Usually I’m goofing with a beta Os on an external drive just to see if it’s ok. I’ve not done so until I know If there’s a work around with $, I’ll hold tight.



You're getting *warnings* now.

That doesn't mean there can't be other reasons those things aren't working anymore, of course, but Mojave does still support 32-bit programs.


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## synthetic (Aug 10, 2019)

Just glancing at legacy software, it will kill my Lemur Daemon, my old copy of Sibelius, Microsoft Office, Vienna Ensemble Pro, bunch of other stuff. Do not be first in line to upgrade to this OS.


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## storyteller (Aug 10, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> You're getting *warnings* now.
> 
> That doesn't mean there can't be other reasons those things aren't working anymore, of course, but Mojave does still support 32-bit programs.


I’ve also learned from other devs that some of the warnings are due to software being both 32-bit and 64-bit in the same package and doesn’t actually mean it won’t run in Catalina. Just thought I’d throw that out there.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 10, 2019)

A mac application bundle is actually a folder full of stuff and there could be multiple binaries inside, the main binary that normally launches but sometimes extra helper programs and stuff that the main application may try to launch as separate processes. In all cases, if any of the executable binaries are 32bit, then the program may be broken in some way, even if the main app launches, if it tries to use the internal binary for some reason and it can't launch it, then the program will be broken at that point.

The utility that has been mentioned on this thread will look inside application bundles to find these extra hidden binaries that might exist, so its a little more complete then just using the About This Mac to find out.

Bottom line, if anything is reported, then be concerned if the application, driver, helper, installer or whatever it is...matters to you. In such a case, contact the manufacturer to find out if they are going to release fully 64bit compliant software.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 10, 2019)

All I need to know is that my audio interface's software breaks.

Man, Apple is going downhill. Catalina is disappointing - kinda fun to rent a golf cart and drive around, some wild boars and prickly pear cacti, but that's about it. Mojave is a desert, not a destination. The High Sierras are amazing, so are the regular Sierras. Yosemite is gorgeous and it's in the Sierra mountain range.

Before that we had cats. I like cats.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 10, 2019)

My MOTU midi interfaces, a pair of MOTU Midi Timepieces networked together, does not have a 64bit midi driver. Its just old enough that it would not surprise me at all of MOTU neglects to update that driver. it hasn't been updated in years. They have newer midi interfaces now, which aren't actually quite as good, but good enough for most people.. We shall see. But that is just one example of something I don't want to have to work around. Maybe MOTU and lots of others will come out with their 64bit drivers at the last minute after Catalina comes out and everyone moans about it, I can hope.

running Go64 right now, I come up with a lot of hits. 253 32bit executables found. Many are not relevant such as dpm plugins, for example. Some I am confident will be updated to 64bit such as helper apps from Adobe, Microsoft, Apple, IK multimedia authorizer, etc..things like that.

There are about 15 things that are 32bit and I suspect will never be updated. So for me personally, mojave is fine, works great and I see no reason to leave Mojave until Apple makes it mandatory because they require it for LogicPro or something. Then I'll think about it, maybe some of those 15 things will have been updated to 64bit by then, but I few of them I know will not. For example, JamVox is my favorite guitar amp sim. Its on the list. Vox hasn't updated it in years and I doubt they will. Other occasionally useful tools like MidiPipe and Translator6....are not 64bit., You think Chickensys is going to update Translator6 to 64bit? Doubt it. Do I use it? Rarely. But still...

There are others...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 10, 2019)

Actually, the Mojave desert can be beautiful, so I'm being unfair to Apple.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 10, 2019)

Mojave is forcing me to update Cubase. It’s been an 8 year run with Cubase 6 so it’s hard to complain, but neither Play nor Kontakt work natively within Cubase for me anymore, (both work in VEP within Cubase) so next week I’ll be trying Cubase 10 in my creaky early 2008 MP. If it doesn’t work, I sure hope I can find my way home.


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## seclusion3 (Aug 11, 2019)

Things that show up as of now in Legacy Software
True Pianos
Axe Edit
Fireface USB
AxeFx2Load
Izotope all of it
Roland RDusb12 midi
UF-Midi-USb
Yamaha-USBMididriver
SoundgridMidi
Presonus
3 of these
Native Intruments Service Center (that old thing)
ToonTrack Product Manager
Waves SGDawNode Serice

Even though Ive searched high and low for TRuePianos crap I demo'ed I can't find it.
Some of the software could be from an old install, like old AxeFX's stuff as I'm on a Ax8 now.

But Roland Uf for my TD9, Yamaha CP4 and Presonus are all essential.
Presonus has been getting updates, so cross fingers its good.
but there hasn't been anything in many years from Yamaha and Uf Roland in many many years.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 11, 2019)

It’s very doubtful that Yamaha or Roland will update those drivers.


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## JamieLang (Aug 11, 2019)

I have v6 and v10 running on the same machine, albeit a Win10 box....fwiw. It doesn't conflict-multiple versions of Cubase is pretty normal. Theres a 30 day demo of v10, fwiw—you can try it and make sure it runs OK before paying the $300 upgrade.


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## HeliaVox (Aug 11, 2019)

The problem I have with going through System Report and looking for "Legacy Software" is that many of the apps I uninstalled months ago are still showing up in the list. There is nothing in the locations listed by Legacy Software. 

So program A's path is listed, but upon examination of that path, nothing is actually there in that location.

There must be a better way of sussing out "legacy software"


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## seclusion3 (Aug 11, 2019)

On page one there is a free app


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## HeliaVox (Aug 11, 2019)

Yes, I typed before I looked. There are many many less apps now than what was listed in Legacy Software. It's really the stand alone Korg Legacy Apps, and my Scarlett MixControl.


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## seclusion3 (Aug 11, 2019)

That app does not show my hardware usb midi for Roland or Yamaha. Even if enable all executables in 32 & 64.
So not sure it will catch everything. When i do get brave, I will ensure i can install on a backup HD, in some easier betas some people had issues reverting back.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 11, 2019)

Yeah Jamie-all of that is my understanding as well, in theory. I have both C5 and C6 running on my machine.

My worries are these:

1. All the additional preferences and extra files that a C10 installation adds-if I want to go back, how easy will it be to remove them?

2. ...whether my old beast will be able to run C10, CPU-wise. It’s pretty much gasping with C6 though stability is great and VEP has helped enormously.

In the long run I may have to buy another computer. I’ve already been doing way more tech than music writing for weeks. I like writing music, I hate tech. Reinstalling everything on a new computer is not going to be quick or painless.

It is what it is. 1st world problems (shrug).


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## JamieLang (Aug 11, 2019)

On OSX, #2 is a significant concern,IME....which is why I pointed out that they offer a 30 day demo without needing to uninstall 6. Though I would think a Xeon Pro with modern metal GPU wont bat an eye-I could be wrong. 

As to #1, as someone who did follow it, Steiny has a FAQ of all the file locations in OSX, however, I wouldnt think leaving them would cause an issue beyond the space used in OSX.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 12, 2019)

HeliaVox said:


> Yes, I typed before I looked. There are many many less apps now than what was listed in Legacy Software. It's really the stand alone Korg Legacy Apps, and my Scarlett MixControl.


Yep, for me, anything with "Korg" in the title is outdated. Side note: Why is ancillary software for music production always a cross platform dumpster fire?


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## JamieLang (Aug 12, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> Yep, for me, anything with "Korg" in the title is outdated. Side note: Why is ancillary software for music production always a cross platform dumpster fire?



Unless you need a hardware digital piano....or workstation keyboard. In which case there's not even a close second to the Kronos and Grandstage.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 12, 2019)

JamieLang said:


> Unless you need a hardware digital piano....or workstation keyboard. In which case there's not even a close second to the Kronos and Grandstage.


I should have been clearer. Was referring to the 32bit apps on my Mac..


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## JamieLang (Aug 12, 2019)

...to be fair, as I thought about it, their computer integration on OSX and Windows leaves a lot to be desired. They're obviously not a computer company-witness the constant issues with OSX compatibility....or implementing audio "for Windows" that was never ASIO compliant.


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## lasteno (Nov 2, 2019)

apple is killing themselves for no reason..


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## ptram (Nov 3, 2019)

It would be fair if Apple extended High Sierra support for some years. Some of us can be happy with older systems, but it would be a real problem if we start no longer having security updates.

Paolo


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## Dewdman42 (Nov 3, 2019)

at some point they will stop. I just got on an update on my high sierra MacBookPro, so I guess at least for now they are supporting it at least that much.


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