# Need help with MIDI strings!



## MilesAbbott (Dec 17, 2019)

Having just started attempting to write MIDI strings, I have come across some real problems that I just can't figure out. Please keep in mind that I am totally new to this, so if possible please keep any explanations as simple as you can. I would very much appreciate any help.

Anyway, my basic problem is with writing long notes that are supposed to flow continuously. The problem, of course, is that there is a slight delay between pressing the key and the actual sound to begin. (Small rant here: how have they not made this sound right yet? Who wants to press a key and wait for the sound to play? Why can't they just cut out the delay so that I get instant sound? It just doesn't make sense to me.)

I have tried many things. I've tried moving the MIDI around. I've tried track delay, and a combination of both. It seems no matter what I do, there is always, always a strange artifact when the note switches. Almost like a sucking sound and a subtle but definitely noticeable swell in volume as one note cuts out and the other starts. If I overlap MIDI notes, then the transition to the next note is horribly muddy, and the timing seems inconsistent. By that I mean some notes will sort of begin on time, but other notes are off, which leads me to try messing with the MIDI more and never really being satisfied.

Yet I've heard member compositions where I can't hear these artifacts, and I figure the issue must be some technique I'm not employing. I have actually tried separating the chords into single notes in multiple legato patches, but that doesn't sound right either. Please help! I am really hoping that the solution is not some painstaking method of meticulously altering every single note until it sounds passable...which I've sort of done already...

I'm using Albion One and HZ Strings by the way. That's all I have. The shorts are great for both, but that does me no good on the long notes, obviously. I also use Cubase if that makes a difference.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Dec 17, 2019)

Many of us have Albion One. Easiest to help you would be if you create a small snippet with only Albion One for us to listen to (best including midi, so that we see what you did, or even a complete cubase project file). Then we can give you tips.

The reason for delayed note starts are manyfold.
When playing real instruments some sound is going on before the "peak" of the transient (which most of the time is meant to fall on a beat), this is why cutting away all sound "previous to the beat" is often omitted for more realism. For live playing this means a sort of delay for the notes.


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## MilesAbbott (Dec 17, 2019)

Okay, so I don't know how to upload MIDI files, but I attached a picture of what my cellos track looks like. Keep in mind I've tried keeping the MIDI directly on the beat, they look like they do because I'm trying to blend one note into the other, but that just isn't really working. 

And here is the audio: 

This is just supposed to be background for a piano part...but I can still hear these sounds and it really bothers me. Let me know if I can provide more information somehow. 

This is HZ Strings by the way...it sounds basically the same on Albion One.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 17, 2019)

MilesAbbott said:


> The problem, of course, is that there is a slight delay between pressing the key and the actual sound to begin. (Small rant here: how have they not made this sound right yet? Who wants to press a key and wait for the sound to play? Why can't they just cut out the delay so that I get instant sound? It just doesn't make sense to me.)



Sounds like a latency issue. Are you using an audio interface or sound card? These are very important for handling latency...which is that delay you mention. Also, are you hosting those string libraries on a dedicated drive? You you please post your system specs?


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2019)

Several ways you can come at this: for starters: divide into two parts and use legato articulation on each. Or don't overlap the notes so much and reduce the velocity. (With SF libraries the attack on a non-legato long is usually determined by velocity). Or draw in CC1 and CC11 to shape the notes. (The latter you should do regardless). I tested the opening of your figure on HZS with cellos right and left assigned to the two parts and it sounds much smoother than your example.


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## MilesAbbott (Dec 17, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Sounds like a latency issue. Are you using an audio interface or sound card? These are very important for handling latency...which is that delay you mention. Also, are you hosting those string libraries on a dedicated drive? You you please post your system specs?



The libraries aren't on a dedicated drive, but I think my computer is fine. It's pretty much new, i7 @ 3.2Ghz I think, with 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD. Yeah I could and probably should upgrade to 32GB but my system is handling everything else fine; it's just the long patches that are giving me fits. My sound card is my Yamaha Montage...which is a pretty nice sound card from what I understand. 



jbuhler said:


> Several ways you can come at this: for starters: divide into two parts and use legato articulation on each. Or don't overlap the notes so much and reduce the velocity. (With SF libraries the attack on a non-legato long is usually determined by velocity). Or draw in CC1 and CC11 to shape the notes. (The latter you should do regardless). I tested the opening of your figure on HZS with cellos right and left assigned to the two parts and it sounds much smoother than your example.



I'm guessing you've hit upon my solution, although I've tried the legato articulation patches solution already. There is still an unpleasant artifact with each note transition with that method. 

I'm curious what you mean by drawing in CC1 and CC11. For one, I've not noticed any real difference between the expression CC and main volume, so I don't understand why I should use one instead of the other. And drawing in volume changes sounds extraordinarily tedious if that is my solution. Is that a normal hassle when dealing with strings? 

I will definitely have to try reducing velocity first...I'm really hoping that will do the trick. Did some painting earlier which required me to take down my whole setup, though, so it'll have to wait a bit. 

Thank you both for the replies. If anyone has any other tips please feel free to share.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 17, 2019)

MilesAbbott said:


> he libraries aren't on a dedicated drive, but I think my computer is fine. It's pretty much new, i7 @ 3.2Ghz I think, with 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD. Yeah I could and probably should upgrade to 32GB but my system is handling everything else fine; it's just the long patches that are giving me fits. My sound card is my Yamaha Montage...which is a pretty nice sound card from what I understand.



Are you sure you're actually using it as an interface, or just a controller? Which device is your output to your monitors?


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## MilesAbbott (Dec 17, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Are you sure you're actually using it as an interface, or just a controller? Which device is your output to your monitors?



Ummm....I have no idea, unfortunately. I am horribly noobish and have no idea what you mean by interface. The Montage is the output for my monitors, I know that much, but it's definitely a controller as well. I play the stuff on the Montage. But like I mentioned, there isn't any latency with other patches, at least none that I've noticed, and I've done plenty of percussion which definitely needs to be on the beat and have experienced no issues. Shorts on HZ and A1 both work fine.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Dec 17, 2019)

This slowly rising volume at the beginning of each note for many libraries especially happens on low dynamics.
Does the behaviour change when you use the "modwheel" CC1 and go a bit higher than you are?
Using CC1 is vital for most virtual instruments.


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## Manuel Stumpf (Dec 17, 2019)

MilesAbbott said:


> I'm curious what you mean by drawing in CC1 and CC11. For one, I've not noticed any real difference between the expression CC and main volume, so I don't understand why I should use one instead of the other. And drawing in volume changes sounds extraordinarily tedious if that is my solution. Is that a normal hassle when dealing with strings?


The expression CC is often used just as an additional volume control indeed.
The CC1 (aka "modwheel") controls the dynamics (this changes the timbre, attack of notes etc., not only the volume). Therefore using this is important.
Other libraries might have different controllers assigned. But most of the time CC1 is dynamics.


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## MilesAbbott (Dec 17, 2019)

Manuel Stumpf said:


> The expression CC is often used just as an additional volume control indeed.
> The CC1 (aka "modwheel") controls the dynamics (this changes the timbre, attack of notes etc., not only the volume). Therefore using this is important.
> Other libraries might have different controllers assigned. But most of the time CC1 is dynamics.



I've not noticed any difference in timbre or attack when I've messed with the dynamics...perhaps I need to take a closer look at that. Seemed like it was just changing volume to me. Is changing the dynamics vital in getting smooth transitions between long notes in strings? I've not tried that at all yet.

EDIT: And what might the standard practice be? As in, can you give me an example of how you might adjust the dynamics or volume between two notes?


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## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2019)

If you were getting that sound with legato transitions you likely either didn’t connect the notes properly or played two notes at the same time. Legato is generally a monophonic patch. Also velocity will select the kind of legato transition. 

CC1 is usually a combination of volume and crossfade between dynamic layers in order to produce smooth transitions between layers. CC11 is another volume controller but it’s useful to think of it here in terms of the performance leaving other volume controls free to set levels. Generally you use a combination of CC1 and CC11 to shape phrasing.


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## MilesAbbott (Dec 17, 2019)

Okay...well thank you for the help, I really do appreciate it. I'll try this stuff out tonight and update the thread with results!


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## EpicMusicGuy (Aug 21, 2021)

I get this too with Anthology Strings. 
I tried overlapping, sounds strange also.
I tried turning up dynamics as suggested in this thread. Does help quite a bit, but not completely, and feels kind of limiting.
Should I just use legato instead of sustains?


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