# Summary added: Death Bug in Windows Update (W10)



## JohnG (Aug 24, 2018)

If you use Windows 10 PCs, suggest you disable Windows Update for the time being. My Percussion computer now presents a black screen (not blue) with only the trashcan and a couple of other useless icons.

[edit] Specifically, this is the message:

C:\WINDOWS\system32\config\systemprofile\Desktop is unavailable. If the location is on this PC, make sure the device or drive is connected or the disc is inserted, and then try again. If the location is on a network, make sure you're connected to the network or internet, and then try again. If the location still can't be found, it might have been moved or deleted.

This is not universal but widespread -- the April 2018 update has, practically speaking, wrecked the OS for, apparently, thousands of users.

Files are not lost and so I put the C: drive in a dock and have them back, so I didn't lose anything major, but there appears, so far, to be literally no way around it.

I have of course tried all the obvious stuff. Safe Boot is not available, you can't get to Windows Explorer to even look at your files (they are there, but you can't see them), you can't run Settings or Update again, even using the Task Manager you can't get to regular programs directly -- it is really stuck.

This is a true Death Bug, so beware. Glad I'm not in the middle of a deadline.


----------



## Phillip Dixon (Aug 24, 2018)

April .? Bit late now init


----------



## SchnookyPants (Aug 24, 2018)

7


----------



## Phillip Dixon (Aug 24, 2018)

7? This is all to sureal for me


----------



## aaronventure (Aug 24, 2018)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I am sorry that it happened to you, stuff like this really sucks, especially if you're in the middle of a project. I'm glad to hear you didn't lose any files, though.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 24, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> April .? Bit late now init



I normally don't update Windows unless I'm between projects, and this is the first time I've had a hiatus this year.

Thank goodness -- still absolutely no clear solution. I have an AOMEI backup of the C: drive but it's not clear how I could actually get to it.


----------



## Phillip Dixon (Aug 24, 2018)

Actually i had somthing similar around that time powered up and all icons were hollow
Any thing i clicked just came up as blank window ....
I just pulled the plug and restarted and it all came back.thank f...k


----------



## Jaap (Aug 24, 2018)

I had a similar thing around May. It could applied an update, restarted and everything was black. Not even the trashcan... but I found the tip that with ctrl-alt-delete I could open up the task manager and open up explorer.exe as it turned out the update corrupted the user profile and could create a new user profile and copy over all the data to that one and things work ever since again, but its horrible that this happens with these updates.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 24, 2018)

Phillip Dixon said:


> Actually i had somthing similar around that time powered up and all icons were hollow
> Any thing i clicked just came up as blank window ....
> I just pulled the plug and restarted and it all came back.thank f...k



A lot of people are having this experience -- unplug the computer for five minutes or so, and it magically reboots. Unfortunately, not everyone!



Jaap said:


> I had a similar thing around May. It could applied an update, restarted and everything was black. Not even the trashcan... but I found the tip that with ctrl-alt-delete I could open up the task manager and open up explorer.exe as it turned out the update corrupted the user profile and could create a new user profile and copy over all the data to that one and things work ever since again, but its horrible that this happens with these updates.



I tried that too but was unable to find explorer.

Luckily I had a full backup of all the drives, so I used my Mac to make a bootable USB (formatted exFAT) and am now in the process of trying to recover everything using my AOMEI backup.

I pity anyone who only has one computer though -- no way back but the repair store.


----------



## Paul Jelfs (Aug 25, 2018)

Same thing happened to me today = after I turned on updates. Black screens. Luckily just before windows I was giving the option to system restore - but better go and turn off updates . I thought my gpu was broken . Waste of an entire day thinking my pc was broken


----------



## lux (Aug 25, 2018)

I've had a nice present as well from Windows update in April. My main user got lost and I just found a fresh new installation after the update.


----------



## Matt Riley (Aug 25, 2018)

I haven't updated my slave PC since 2016. Jay Asher recommend that I treat it like a synth keyboard and leave it alone. I'm glad I listened!


----------



## Giscard Rasquin (Aug 25, 2018)

Jaap said:


> I had a similar thing around May. It could applied an update, restarted and everything was black. Not even the trashcan... but I found the tip that with ctrl-alt-delete I could open up the task manager and open up explorer.exe as it turned out the update corrupted the user profile and could create a new user profile and copy over all the data to that one and things work ever since again, but its horrible that this happens with these updates.



Had exactly the same problem. Scared the sh*t out of me but as you say copying all files to a new user profile did the trick. Shouldn’t happen though....


----------



## Gerhard Westphalen (Aug 25, 2018)

Have you tried cleaning the registry? I've had Windows suddenly decide that my profile was corrupt so it creates a new one and I can't log in to the old one. I believe the solution was to just run a registry cleaner and that fixed it (although I could be wrong, was a while back).

Last night I had to briefly enable the updates in order to get the Netflix app to update and it was a scary few minutes. Luckily Windows didn't phone home and see that updates are available.


----------



## Paul Grymaud (Aug 25, 2018)

*I'm the bug killer (windows 10 specialist)*


----------



## DavidY (Aug 25, 2018)

Jaap said:


> I had a similar thing around May. It could applied an update, restarted and everything was black. Not even the trashcan... but I found the tip that with ctrl-alt-delete I could open up the task manager and open up explorer.exe as it turned out the update corrupted the user profile and could create a new user profile and copy over all the data to that one and things work ever since again, but its horrible that this happens with these updates.





JohnG said:


> I tried that too but was unable to find explorer.


Just on this - you shouldn't need to *find* explorer as such. You should just be able to go to Task Manager on Ctrl-Shift-Esc to get Task Manager and then do File, Run new Task, and type "explorer" into the box and it should find it. I'm inclined to agree that adding a new profile might be helpful.

Also, if Ctrl-Alt-Delete works, you should be able to left-click the "power" symbol which is bottom-right of that screen, and hold the Shift key down as you click Restart. This should go into Advanced Restart which should give you more options including (if you're lucky) going back to a previous build.


----------



## J-M (Aug 25, 2018)

Jesus H. Christ that thread title scared the **** out of me. Luckily everything has been stable on my system so far.


----------



## germancomponist (Aug 25, 2018)

I am on Windows 7 and missing nothing.... . Should I miss something?


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 25, 2018)

Yes, not being able to install newer versions of software once all of them drop W7 support and you REALLY WANT THAT NEW THING.


----------



## germancomponist (Aug 25, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes, not being able to install newer versions of software once all of them drop W7 support and you REALLY WANT THAT NEW THING.


I know that then I have to, but I hate it to re install all of my stuff.


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 25, 2018)

One day job, hardly something to cry about


----------



## germancomponist (Aug 25, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> One day job, hardly something to cry about


----------



## JohnG (Aug 25, 2018)

DavidY said:


> Just on this - you shouldn't need to *find* explorer as such. You should just be able to go to Task Manager on Ctrl-Shift-Esc to get Task Manager and then do File, Run new Task, and type "explorer" into the box and it should find it. I'm inclined to agree that adding a new profile might be helpful.
> 
> Also, if Ctrl-Alt-Delete works, you should be able to left-click the "power" symbol which is bottom-right of that screen, and hold the Shift key down as you click Restart. This should go into Advanced Restart which should give you more options including (if you're lucky) going back to a previous build.



I had to completely reinstall Windows 10 in the end. Shocking really.

Spent two days on this and have reinstalled Kontakt, Play, VE Pro, and all the iLok and other little things that go with all that.

Biggest remaining hassle is that the drive letters have been scrambled. AARGH!


----------



## Blakus (Aug 25, 2018)

Honestly, I love Windows 10, it has served me well so far. However, Windows updates are literally one of the most terrifying ordeals for me  Why they feel the need to force them on us is beyond me. You almost need a major in computer science to be able to disable them properly too


----------



## JohnG (Aug 25, 2018)

Blakus said:


> Honestly, I love Windows 10, it has served me well so far. However, Windows updates are literally one of the most terrifying ordeals for me  Why they feel the need to force them on us is beyond me. You almost need a major in computer science to be able to disable them properly too



So true. I've read posts by others who only had one computer, so they had no choice but to go to a repair shop. It turns the C drive into an almost inaccessible brick, unless you know a lot.


----------



## germancomponist (Aug 25, 2018)

JohnG said:


> I had to completely reinstall Windows 10 in the end. Shocking really.
> 
> Spent two days on this and have reinstalled Kontakt, Play, VE Pro, and all the iLok and other little things that go with all that.
> 
> Biggest remaining hassle is that the drive letters have been scrambled. AARGH!


I feel with you, John, hate it to think about this scenario .... .


----------



## shawnsingh (Aug 25, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes, not being able to install newer versions of software once all of them drop W7 support and you REALLY WANT THAT NEW THING.



This just happened to me... I tried to update Falcon, and it doesn't work, I'm pretty sure because it newly requires Windows 8 minimum. So I basically inadvertently uninstalled Falcon. Talking with UVI support now, but maybe I won't be able to run Falcon until I upgrade...


----------



## JohnG (Aug 25, 2018)

One tip in case This Happens To You -- it's handy to have an old Kontakt 5 installation disk so you don't have to use Native Access. 

at the suggestion of @EvilDragon in a post on the Native Instruments forum, I deleted Native Access and used Service Center so I could update only to 5.6.6. It's much more understandable to me.


----------



## Quasar (Aug 25, 2018)

It's not at all difficult to stop unwanted Windows Updates if one keeps one's workstation offline. It continues to utterly baffle me that people will tolerate or excuse the existence of intrusively evil malware like Native Access, even as they loudly complain about the perils of mandatory Updates etc... It blows my fucking mind.

Even the artists of these endarkened times become willing participants in their own oppression...


----------



## JohnG (Aug 25, 2018)

Thanks for the helpful post, Quasar.

I was updating on purpose, dude, as you could see if you read the post.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 25, 2018)

In other news, is there any way to get an update for Kontakt that's not "quite" as far back as 5.6.6 ?


----------



## Quasar (Aug 25, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Thanks for the helpful post, Quasar.
> 
> I was updating on purpose, dude, as you could see if you read the post.



Apologies, I do get that you chose to update, and understand that WU problems legitimately exist quite apart from my _cause célèbre. _I just can't resist getting on that soapbox whenever the topic allows for even the most peripheral opportunity to do so. 

You can get all of the so-called legacy downloads through 5.6.6, then it goes to Native Access, and AFAIK NI has no option for downloading any post-5.6.6 version except the current one.


----------



## dzilizzi (Aug 25, 2018)

JohnG said:


> In other news, is there any way to get an update for Kontakt that's not "quite" as far back as 5.6.6 ?


I want to say after 5.6.6, it went to 5.7 and Native Access. And it is probably available somewhere. But that's when it changed to the unable to add libraries in Kontakt, if I remember correctly.


----------



## Quasar (Aug 25, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> I want to say after 5.6.6, it went to 5.7 and Native Access. And it is probably available somewhere. But that's when it changed to the unable to add libraries in Kontakt, if I remember correctly.


The cutoff is exactly between 5.6.6 & 5.6.8. That's when NI's fascist New Order emerged and all of the problems began, including the auto-nuking of the installers via Native Access.


----------



## MarcelM (Aug 25, 2018)

JohnG said:


> I had to completely reinstall Windows 10 in the end. Shocking really.
> 
> Spent two days on this and have reinstalled Kontakt, Play, VE Pro, and all the iLok and other little things that go with all that.
> 
> Biggest remaining hassle is that the drive letters have been scrambled. AARGH!



https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-change-a-drive-letter-2626069

drive letters are really easy to fix. maybe it still helps you.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 25, 2018)

I've reassembled most of it but adding libraries in the latest version of Kontakt is baffling. It looks as though Native Access wants to re-download them.

I have a backup so I am going to keep what I have and try recovering the old C: drive onto a different HDD.

Unreal. Microsoft are in the naughty chair.


----------



## Matt Riley (Aug 25, 2018)

JohnG said:


> I've reassembled most of it but adding libraries in the latest version of Kontakt is baffling. It looks as though Native Access wants to re-download them.
> 
> I have a backup so I am going to keep what I have and try recovering the old C: drive onto a different HDD.
> 
> Unreal. Microsoft are in the naughty chair.


Doesn't Native Access just ask you to point it to the location of the samples?


----------



## husker (Aug 25, 2018)

Quasar said:


> It's not at all difficult to stop unwanted Windows Updates if one keeps one's workstation offline. It continues to utterly baffle me that people will tolerate or excuse the existence of intrusively evil malware like Native Access, even as they loudly complain about the perils of mandatory Updates etc... It blows my fucking mind.
> 
> Even the artists of these endarkened times become willing participants in their own oppression...



Oppression? Really?

I actually like Native Access, Waves Central, Arturia Software center, etc. It makes my life much easier.


----------



## dzilizzi (Aug 25, 2018)

Matt Riley said:


> Doesn't Native Access just ask you to point it to the location of the samples?


Yes, but if you use any organization whatsoever, it can't find the files without having to direct it to the main folder. If you have ultimate and a bunch of other libraries, it can take a while.


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 26, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Biggest remaining hassle is that the drive letters have been scrambled.



Well at least that's an easy fix.


----------



## J-M (Aug 26, 2018)

Looks like I celebrated too early, the latest update forced me to reinstall Windows. What a way to spend my day off...


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Aug 26, 2018)

So W10 updates are a complete craps shoot? Or am I missing something?
This is disturbing reading. If you’re going to hard-push updates to users then there is no option to release beta versions to the wild anymore.


----------



## husker (Aug 26, 2018)

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've never had one issue with a Windows 10 update


----------



## chimuelo (Aug 26, 2018)

My new drivers for Windows 10 are rock solid, no troubles and currently updated everything.
Still testing this C236/Xeon rig.
But good news is I have a developer making me Horn Section samples for a Dexibell Rackount Module.
No more PCs for gigs.

This means 6 x powerful 4GHz rigs for recording now.
I’ve been so fortunate to never have a crash after 20 years of using PCs live.
One time I needed a spare SSD in between shows, and once a reboot to put fans on high as the temps turned my Audio into fuzz.

Sure hope Windows 10 doesn’t become a PITA.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 26, 2018)

Actually I like Windows 10 -- not quarrelling with that. But, as @Blakus wrote, daring to turn Windows Update from "disabled" to "on" is a hair-raising experience.

It took four days to get this computer back where it started, and it's still not really done. Certainly, if I new more about PCs (and didn't have a family etc.) it would have taken less time, but I have yet to see a full solution from anyone at Microsoft and have seen plenty of people hopping mad about it whose computers did the same black screen that mine did. 

Had to use AOMEI's Partition Assistant, yet another program that has nothing to do with music as such. Sometimes I think it would have been faster to work for Microsoft for a couple of years before doing music.

All is not perfect. To boot the computer I have to interrupt the sequence with F11 and aim the boot to the WD hard drive, so I have to find out exactly how to address that annoying, though not fatal, problem. My C drive lacks an EFI so I have to work out how to fix that. Cloned the drive just to be safe.

It's kind of working but what a pain.


----------



## chimuelo (Aug 27, 2018)

That is a serious PITA JG and I hope it gets sorted out.
I’m reading nightmare scenarios at my DSP Forum too
Then I’m reading how hyper threading is a serious security threat.
I’m so nervous about NOT having a problem one might come my way.
Can’t wait for my all Hardware live rig to finish.
At least that way it’s isolated to an OS @ home.


----------



## kitekrazy (Aug 27, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> So W10 updates are a complete craps shoot? Or am I missing something?
> This is disturbing reading. If you’re going to hard-push updates to users then there is no option to release beta versions to the wild anymore.



For me they can be. My issue is with updates screwing up my network and shared drives. I have 3 W10 systems and two went fine and I had to roll one back. So far I've been lucky not to have the issue John had. I'm lazy when it comes to backup images and I've been able to fix everything in W10. I'm not a fan of the evolving OS. I'd rather go back to paying for OS upgrades and service packs.


----------



## Divico (Aug 27, 2018)

jeez this thread reads like a nightmare. Upgraded to 10 this year and fortunately had no problems yet. By default I disabled auto updating though


----------



## Thomas Kallweit (Aug 27, 2018)

This makes me frightened.
Still over a year left til updating from Win 7 to 10 (or longer with the risk of no update | support)


----------



## chrisphan (Aug 27, 2018)

JohnG said:


> My C drive lacks an EFI so I have to work out how to fix that


I used to have that exact problem. In my case it was because I reinstalled Windows while having more than 1 disk connected. I found out pretty early on, reinstalled Windows again with only the boot disk attached, and never had a problem since.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 28, 2018)

chrisphan said:


> I used to have that exact problem. In my case it was because I reinstalled Windows while having more than 1 disk connected. I found out pretty early on, reinstalled Windows again with only the boot disk attached, and never had a problem since.



Yes, that does seem to be the issue. My reluctance to installing Windows 10 from scratch stems from losing the version of Kontakt I've been using, v5.7.3.37. As far as I know there's no way to get that version back.

I'm thinking about it though -- the recovered disk approach feels unstable. It looks as though Native Access offers only 5.8 or something like that.


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 28, 2018)

JohnG said:


> As far as I know there's no way to get that version back.



Yes there is. Just make a copy of the DLL and EXE files, that's all you need. You can install the latest version from Native Access, but use 5.7.3 instead at your discretion.


----------



## MartinH. (Aug 28, 2018)

I prefer the NI access way of installing stuff over the old boxes full of DVDs way. Or the 3 dozen updates as individual files that each take forever to unpack and install. But I don't appreciate all the DRM cancer and lost flexibility one bit. 

These days the form of DRM used or not used definitely is factored into my purchase decisions! I try to stay away from everything that needs another "service" or "manager" installed. I'm always happy to see the "only for full version of Kontakt" messages, because those libraries so far seem to have been free of DRM. I want to be able to just make a backup of my stuff and be sure that I'll not be a nightmare to get to run again if I ever have to re-install or switch computers. 




chimuelo said:


> I’ve been so fortunate to never have a crash after 20 years of using PCs live.
> One time I needed a spare SSD in between shows, and once a reboot to put fans on high as the temps turned my Audio into fuzz.



About a decade ago I've heard a story of a black metal band using a windows pc live, where they hadn't properly activated the install and it automatically shut down after 2 hours. They played the windows shutdown sound over the big speakers at a live open air concert x]. Got some good laughs from the crowd apparently.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 28, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes there is. Just make a copy of the DLL and EXE files, that's all you need. You can install the latest version from Native Access, but use 5.7.3 instead at your discretion.



@EvilDragon you are AWESOME, as usual

Moved the EXE and DLL files over to their respective locations -- thanks!!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 30, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> One day job, hardly something to cry about


And less if you have standard images for reinstalling


----------



## JohnG (Aug 30, 2018)

Summary:

My problems arose in Windows from updating Windows 10 to the 1803 version. You get a blank screen and the Recycle Bin, the only icon that's really working. You can get at task manager (CTRL-ALT-DEL). 

There's a good description of the problem here, but I did not try the solution proposed at this link:

http://www.surfacetablethelp.com/20...-black-screen-on-windows-10-v1803-update.html

I tried to use task manager to get at things, and fortunately had a full, recent backup of the C: drive on AOMEI.

Nevertheless, it's not possible with the backup I had to create a bootable drive. So, while I didn't lose a single file, I ended up performing a clean install of W10 and what I DID lose was v5.7.3 of Kontakt, which "broke" a few other things.

EvilDragon suggested I substitute the EXE and DLL files from my old drive into the now-new Kontakt 5.8.1 that downloaded from Native Access. That helped, but unfortunately I lost the ability to "add library" directly from within Kontakt. 

As you may know, v5.8.1 allows one to add a library only from within Native Access, and I'm unable to add EWQLSO Percussion XP for some reason -- everything appears to be in place but it won't add in. This despite the fact that the old "regular" EWQLSO Percussion _does_ work. The XP patches appear as DEMO and time out quite quickly, so if I can't figure out how to add them back, I won't be able to use them anymore.

As I said, I _am_ able to load patches from the even older Kontakt version of the EWQLSO Percussion library (the one without extended content). Just not the expansion.

Everything is now back in order except for:

1. Can't open very old East West (Kontakt version) of Percussion XP, which is too bad, because it has a Wagner bass drum and a few other very good sounds on it. I'll call Native Instruments today and / or put in a ticket.

2. I had an install from long ago -- can't even remember how long ago -- of Abbey Road 60s drums that had about 20 or so kits. Native Instruments made me "Install" the library and now there's an entirely new library with the same name that only has four kits (two really, since it's just the "full" and "lite" version for each of two kits).

So now, on the good side, I have a fresh, clean Windows 10 install and didn't lose too much.

On the bad side, it has taken nearly a week of tinkering to resurrect the PC the way it was. I have a complex setup, with I don't know how many libraries, plus a software RAID on one of the drives (which didn't help).

The other bad thing was that I reset my BIOS to its default state and I'll have to go back through that to turn off Speedstep and some of the other "helpful" power management items. Also, of course, one has to go through the "Settings" in Windows 10 have to have all the non-music rubbish (background tasks and microphone access and all that) turned off.

And I disabled "Windows Update" in Services. I won't be using that any time soon!

John


----------



## ChazC (Aug 30, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Summary:
> The XP patches appear as DEMO and time out quite quickly, so if I can't figure out how to add them back, I won't be able to use them anymore.



Sorry to read about all your Win10 issues - what a nightmare. However, this issue with a library being DEMO is very similar to the issue I had on a fresh Win10 install and trying to install older Kontakt libraries. Just have a look to check you don’t have any old Service Center .xml files lurking around - they don’t play nice with Native Access and produce the very same result - installed, registered libraries showing as demo only. I tore my hair out for 3 days (with zero help from NI) before finding out that service center had launched itself at some point of the reinstallation and created several .xml’scausing the very issue you describe.

Best of luck.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 30, 2018)

ChazC said:


> ust have a look to check you don’t have any old Service Center .xml files lurking around - they don’t play nice with Native Access and produce the very same result - installed, registered libraries showing as demo only.



Interesting -- do you recall which folders or general areas would harbour these nasty .xml files?


----------



## DavidY (Aug 30, 2018)

JohnG said:


> I... fortunately had a full, recent backup of the C: drive on AOMEI.
> 
> Nevertheless, it's not possible with the backup I had to create a bootable drive.


Doesn't AOMEI make full disk images? (Which would help in this sort of situation - especially if you have a bootable rescue USB or whatever it's called to restore the backup - although it's always easy to be wise after the event.)

Not that you should _have_ to do this sort of thing, of course. I imagine Microsoft would say that Windows 10 is perfectly safe to update itself without being asked and without user intervention... but I would always aim to have a good disk image backup in place before I trigger an update.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 30, 2018)

DavidY said:


> I would always aim to have a good disk image backup in place before I trigger an update.



Undoubtedly you are right! In my reckless way, I have always assumed that the worst that Update could wreak would be a corrupt file or something, not a Death Screen that makes the computer unusable. So, I think, an AOMEI backup should be fine....

With four PCs I think I've been a bit lazy about creating a USB bootable for each one, but I guess that's the ticket. I'm not clear on whether you need just One USB To Rule Them All, or four separate ones, but no harm done in getting some extra USBs. They are quite a bit cheaper than 4 days of one's time.


----------



## dzilizzi (Aug 30, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Undoubtedly you are right! In my reckless way, I have always assumed that the worst that Update could wreak would be a corrupt file or something, not a Death Screen that makes the computer unusable. So, I think, an AOMEI backup should be fine....
> 
> With four PCs I think I've been a bit lazy about creating a USB bootable for each one, but I guess that's the ticket. I'm not clear on whether you need just One USB To Rule Them All, or four separate ones, but no harm done in getting some extra USBs. They are quite a bit cheaper than 4 days of one's time.


One for each operating system. So if all your computers are running 10, you only need one. I have 7/8/10, so I have them all....


----------



## ChazC (Aug 30, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Interesting -- do you recall which folders or general areas would harbour these nasty .xml files?



Program files/common files/native instruments/service center

Here’s the link to my thread on the NI forum:
https://www.native-instruments.com/...-on-windows-one-solution.324284/#post-1612318


----------



## DavidY (Aug 30, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> So if all your computers are running 10, you only need one.


Yes - the Media Creation Tool thing allows you to to create a USB which installs most editions of Windows 10 (perhaps not Enterprise/Education and suchlike?) and last time I made one I think it included both 64-bit and 32-bit for my ancient laptop.



JohnG said:


> Undoubtedly you are right! In my reckless way, I have always assumed that the worst that Update could wreak would be a corrupt file or something, not a Death Screen that makes the computer unusable.


I've definitely had times when I've been very glad of a disk image backup before I tried an update!


----------



## ChazC (Aug 30, 2018)

Just a quick question to those who have had this Win10 update horror show; it’s been stated that it’s the April 2018 update causing all the damage but it’s only causing issues now. Are you all only updating every now and again rather than when an update is rolled out?

Only reason I ask is since installing Win10 last year I’ve not had any issues with updates on either machine except the one which was switched off for around 7 weeks for repair. When it was powered back up and did a bunch of updates it had all sorts of problems (fortunately all sorted). The identical PC that was left to install updates as they were rolled out has ticked along with no issues at all.

Just wondering if this is some kind of issue with several updates all being installed at once?


----------



## JohnG (Aug 30, 2018)

ChazC said:


> Program files/common files/native instruments/service center



I tried it and thanks -- possibly I have something Native Access dislikes about my folder hierarchy. I will try support.

Thanks!

John


----------



## Gerhard Westphalen (Aug 30, 2018)

JohnG said:


> And I disabled "Windows Update" in Services. I won't be using that any time soon!


In case you don't know, turning off the service doesn't work anymore. It'll eventually turn itself back on. You need Windows 10 Pro to be able to disable updates using the group policy. Without Pro there's no way anymore.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 30, 2018)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> In case you don't know, turning off the service doesn't work anymore. It'll eventually turn itself back on. You need Windows 10 Pro to be able to disable updates using the group policy. Without Pro there's no way anymore.



I just disabled Updates using Group Policy, as you suggested. Hope it stays that way. I do have Windows 10 Pro. For better or worse.


----------



## Gerhard Westphalen (Aug 30, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Well, I just disabled Updates using Group Policy, as you suggested. Hope it stays that way. I do have Windows 10 Pro. For better or worse.


What I also do for good measure is that one of those settings lets you specify the location where looks for it's updates. I just put a random address in there so even if it tries to phone home, nothing will happen.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 30, 2018)

ChazC said:


> Just wondering if this is some kind of issue with several updates all being installed at once?



Could be right @ChazC 

Normally my PCs are not connected.


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 31, 2018)

JohnG said:


> EvilDragon suggested I substitute the EXE and DLL files from my old drive into the now-new Kontakt 5.8.1 that downloaded from Native Access. That helped, but unfortunately I lost the ability to "add library" directly from within Kontakt.
> 
> As you may know, v5.8.1 allows one to add a library only from within Native Access, and I'm unable to add EWQLSO Percussion XP for some reason -- everything appears to be in place but it won't add in. This despite the fact that the old "regular" EWQLSO Percussion _does_ work. The XP patches appear as DEMO and time out quite quickly, so if I can't figure out how to add them back, I won't be able to use them anymore.



Download 5.6.6 from here: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?q=kontakt&t=updates

Of course, keep 5.7.1 EXE/DLL as previously instructed. Once you install K5.6.6, keep just the standalone EXE file and rename it so that you can always open it even if you have later versions of Kontakt installed. Then put back 5.7.1 files in their respective places.


Fun times in EvilDragon's Lair:








PROTIP: _Never ever_ change the order of libraries in Libraries tab in an older version when you have a newer one installed! It messes up things completely. Always do this in the latest version of Kontakt that you have.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 31, 2018)

Hi @EvilDragon 

Thanks again -- you have been enormously helpful! I had the old CD-ROM install disks for 5.6.6 and I tried them early on in this exercise. Alas, my projects wouldn't open using 5.6.6 unfortunately, but your trick of substituting the old EXE and DLL files put me back on 5.7.x so the VE Pro projects will open now. That was a great idea.

At this point, it's essentially solved. The only thing that is still "broken" is access to EWQLSO's Percussion Expansion Pack from around 2005, so I can't complain too much! I've tried NI's help number but haven't been able to get through to them.

The upside is that I have a clean install of Windows 10, without some of the accumulated detritus that the C: drive inevitably accumulates over time.

I don't know how you know so much about NI and Windows and Mac OS, but it's super kind of you to pitch in and help everyone. I've seen your posts on the NI boards too and, while I realise you are a moderator there and have an official role, it's still very impressive to see how knowledgeable and helpful you are.

Kind regards,

John


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 31, 2018)

I didn't tell you to install 5.6.6 to use constantly. I told you to do it so you can use Add Library again.  Keep it on the side to the main 5.7.1 EXE/DLL so that you can always Add Library for these old libraries. You should be able to add Percussion XP Pro this way, I think.



JohnG said:


> I don't know how you know so much about NI and Windows and Mac OS



I've been using Kontakt since version 3, and as far as NI products I go back to Generator (so, that will be before it got renamed to Reaktor for version 2). I was in elementary school, 6th grade, when I first saw it and got hooked. 

I don't know an awful lot about macOS (all I know is I don't like it or Macs and Apple in general, so I'm Windows4life). But yeah, I've been with Windows since version 3.11, when we still typed win.exe in DOS.


----------



## Tod (Aug 31, 2018)

> At this point, it's essentially solved. The only thing that is still "broken" is access to EWQLSO's Percussion Expansion Pack from around 2005, so I can't complain too much! I've tried NI's help number but haven't been able to get through to them.



I've got the EWQL Gold library that I got back in 2004, I think it was in "Kompakt", but I switched it to Kontakt in 2005 when I got Kontakt-2. When I got my latest computer I was concerned that I might not be able to get Gold installed, but I found it in Service Center and had no poblem.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 31, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Download 5.6.6 from here: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?q=kontakt&t=updates
> 
> Of course, keep 5.7.1 EXE/DLL as previously instructed. Once you install K5.6.6, keep just the standalone EXE file and rename it so that you can always open it even if you have later versions of Kontakt installed. Then put back 5.7.1 files in their respective places.
> 
> ...


I had a suspicion you could do this, but I never did.

Man I could have kept every version of Kontakt 5 back to 5.2 
Major regrets


----------



## brenneisen (Aug 31, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Fun times in EvilDragon's Lair:



what explorer is that?


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 31, 2018)

That's Total Commander.


----------



## brenneisen (Aug 31, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> That's Total Commander.



looks better than mine, weird..

thanks : )


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 31, 2018)

Just tweaked the font and background color. You can also color different file types (by extension) differently...

It really is TOTAL commander.


----------



## JohnG (Aug 31, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> I didn't tell you to install 5.6.6 to use constantly. I told you to do it so you can use Add Library again.  Keep it on the side to the main 5.7.1 EXE/DLL so that you can always Add Library for these old libraries. You should be able to add Percussion XP Pro this way, I think.



I'm not very good at following directions...

I'll have another go at it @EvilDragon 

Thanks again!

John


----------

