# Just got the RME 802 after having Apogee Ensemble for Years — The Difference



## ryanstrong (Nov 20, 2014)

Immediate first impressions, and I'll update as I have more then 30 minutes playing with it, but the most immediate thing is it feels hyped in the highs, and maybe a lack of roundness in the mid-low range compared to the Apogee.

Just my immediate impressions, not for sure if what I mentioned is good or bad—from a listening perspective bad. But perhaps from a mixing perspective maybe good, like now I'm hearing what I need to hear?

Any comments are welcomed.

Question... in TotalMix I have AN 1/2 set at like -10db, setting it at 0 playing a Spotify track introduces clipping. Thoughts on this? Could I by chance have this thing set up incorrectly?


EDIT: I've had the Apogee Ensemble since 2008, so I've logged a LOT of time with it.


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## Jason_D (Nov 20, 2014)

Inside TotalMix I keep everything at unity gain. If it is too loud, which it is, then I move the main fader to taste. Right now I have my RME going to a headphone distributor with the main fader at -24db and the Phones setting at 0db. I am interested in hearing how others set their gain staging.


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## ryanstrong (Nov 20, 2014)

Update... loaded my template. About 270+ tracks of various samples libraries, most being ran off my slave via VEP Pro I did see an increase of performance in terms of latency with the RME...

*Apogee Ensemble
*Buffer Size: 256 samples
Input Latency: 7.062 ms
Output Latency: 9.500 ms

*RME 802
*Buffer Size: 256 samples
Input Latency: 6.312 ms
Output Latency: 6.167 ms

Was happy to see I gained some positive ground on latency.


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## khollister (Nov 21, 2014)

ryanstrong @ Thu Nov 20 said:


> Immediate first impressions, and I'll update as I have more then 30 minutes playing with it, but the most immediate thing is it feels hyped in the highs, and maybe a lack of roundness in the mid-low range compared to the Apogee.
> 
> Just my immediate impressions, not for sure if what I mentioned is good or bad—from a listening perspective bad. But perhaps from a mixing perspective maybe good, like now I'm hearing what I need to hear?
> 
> ...



Doesn't surprise me at all. I can't really prove this but I think the Apogee "house sound" is a coloration (albeit a nice one). The RME's, Apollo and even Metric Halo sound a lot more similar than the Apogee's. I can also relate that my old Duet (a much less sophisticated design to be sure) was quite colored in the same way. I convinced myself of this by using it in my audiophile headphone listening rig (in place of a Rega Research DAC as well as the RME UCX) - it definitely had the "tube sound".

It is possible that Apogee is correct and everyone else is getting it wrong, but I personally doubt it. Please keep in mind I am only speaking of the perceived tonal character, not any resolution or transparency characteristics. I think the modern Apogee DAC's are very revealing, but I suspect there is a bit of "voicing" at play in the design - a very common practice in the high end audiophile electronics industry where the designer tweaks the circuit by ear to achieve a desired character.

I would also not make any final judgement of the RME until you have used it for a few weeks. Some electronic components do exhibit break in when new (capacitors being a notable example) and you might notice subtle changes in the RME as it settles in.

However, there is absolutely no doubt I find the Apogee's more "pleasant" for listening, but that isn't necessarily what we should be going for here.

And I see you have also verified that the RME Hammerfall architecture and drivers are outstanding from the latency numbers :D


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## markstyles (Nov 23, 2014)

Salesman at B&Photo (and there truthful An Rme is to Apogee, what Apogee is to Motu...

I got the RME fire face 800.. The quality to my ears is leaps and bounds above apogee, and I have a lot more headroom.. Apogee would start distorting at knob much lower.... I am so in love with this product. 

Good luck.... 
This is my opinion,, not to effend Apogee users, they must be doing something right, cause they keep selling.. 

To be fair I had the Duet.. which was regularly crapping out, and I had to reinstall drivers 4 - 5 times a year,, I didn't appreciate that Apogee gave me the run-around, that I didn't know what I was doing.. (Using home computers since 1971). Been thru every brand and pretty much every piece of software to go with them


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 23, 2014)

ryanstrong @ Thu Nov 20 said:


> Immediate first impressions, and I'll update as I have more then 30 minutes playing with it, but the most immediate thing is it feels hyped in the highs, and maybe a lack of roundness in the mid-low range compared to the Apogee.



Actually it is the opposite IMHO. Apogee adjusts their converters to sound more pleasing, but they are less transparent.


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## germancomponist (Nov 23, 2014)

Interesting!


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## ryanstrong (Nov 23, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Nov 23 said:


> ryanstrong @ Thu Nov 20 said:
> 
> 
> > Immediate first impressions, and I'll update as I have more then 30 minutes playing with it, but the most immediate thing is it feels hyped in the highs, and maybe a lack of roundness in the mid-low range compared to the Apogee.
> ...



Yep....


ryanstrong @ Thu Nov 20 said:


> ...But perhaps from a mixing perspective maybe good, like now I'm hearing what I need to hear?.


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## José Herring (Nov 23, 2014)

IMO Apogee since I first heard their converters in the '90's always had a very definite character that I would describe as "sweetening the highs". I think it comes from the days when they were the first converters that had to go head to head with old 2 inch analog tape. The first ADATS had the same problem, same with the old DA88's. When I first heard digital unaltered I had the same impression that ryanstrong had. The highs sound harsh and hyped. But, in truth the old style DA converters smoothed the highs to compete with Analog. It was kind of a Dolby type high end.

Just my thoughts.


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## ryanstrong (Dec 1, 2014)

A further update... I am finding that the RME 802 is FAR more stable then the Apogee Ensemble. The Ensemble would get really fussy when switching sample rates — for example if I switched between a Cubase project and referenced something on Spotify it would snap and hang for a second. The Fireface takes it like a champ.

So far the environment feels much more stable.


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