# Mixing Trilogy Bass (in Cubase SX)



## jarzynka (Dec 6, 2004)

Hi Folks-

I figured if anyone would have suggestions to this question, you folks would. I know a lot of you have likely used the Trilogy Bass VSTi and was wondering how you mixed with it?

I'm using Cubase SX to mix and mastering with HarBal and dithering with Wavelab 4.01. My mixes are sounding very muddy and, in many cases, boomy using the Double Fretless and Jaco Fretless patches with Trilogy. I've done very little mixing and mastering work, outside of my home projects, and have been reading quite a bit on the subject.

Conventional wisdom is to low shelf below 80-100Hz (especially to avoid competing with the Kick Drum) and boost or cut around 350-400Hz to add warmth or cut mudiness. 

It still seems like I'm getting way too much bass as compared to professional mixes. I'm looking for a nice ambient bass sound, something along the line of Elton John as a nice low end for my piano work.

I've messed around with a bit of compression as well, but if anyone could tell me (on mastered mixes) where my bass should be peaking (below -30dB from 50-200Hz, etc) it would go a long way.

BTW, I mean no disrespect to Alan's great LastLibs Bass Acoustic Guitar library. It's definitely on my shopping short list and I know he's an advertiser here! Thanks for any information you could provide!


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## Alan Lastufka (Dec 7, 2004)

This may be a "quick fix" suggestion but have you tried throwing a multiband compressor on your master bus? I do this sometimes to control overpowering frequencies, realising that it will effect the whole mix, not just the lows, but it can help in a pinch.

That doesn't address the underlying problem though. How much are you cutting the freqs? and are you sure you are not cutting them too low? Keep in mind that most speakers don't go to 20 Hz, most can barely do 60-80 well - headphones included, you may want to try cutting higher up in the freqs.

Also, have you utilized its panning position at all (the bass guitars)? Sometimes putting the kick a touch left/right and the bass guitar a touch to the opposite side can help.

If you are using SX 2.2 I can take a look at your project if you'd like (I don't have Trilogy though, so you'd have to bounce it).

Hope the above helps.


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## evaclear (May 17, 2005)

For me, i treat Trilogy pretty similarly to how i would any bass, obviously, depending on how close your patch is to an organic electric or acoustic bass!! 

If you've pulled up a fairly organic bass like the ones you've suggested from the lib, i'd still eq and compress it as i would a player. Some suggest a bass roll of at 30hz when obtaining a rock bass sound... also, sometimes 70 hz and b/w 120-140 hz can be problematic boom frequencies as well with bass. I'd look more at the 70 hz with you mastering eq, and maybe around 270-300hz. 400hz is getting out of your muddy bass frequency into your more cloudy mid/low piano frequency range.

They're my thoughts! But i'm not Bob Clearmountain!! (Also, still reference with another recording to get perspective. Stand at the back of your room as well when referencing, and also outside the room if you're nervous about whether the patch is totally different to what you've had experience mixing).

As Alan said, multiband compression in the mastering stage will control the low end as well. Good mastering can fix many a 'knock' in the low end.

Hope this helps in some way...


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## groove (May 17, 2005)

Hi jarzynka,

as a dubbing mixer (i'm not bob clearmoutain eather !) i'll tell you this :

listen to some records you like on your speakers (maybe the muddy sound come from there ? what speaker do you use ?)

and post a mix on this forum so we can all give very personal opinions about it 

i don't use trilogy, but stylus and athmosphere...all there sounds are amazing but very processed allready so the choise off the proper sound in an arrangement is quite important...have you tried different bass sounds ?

cheers


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## Marsdy (May 17, 2005)

Actually I find the Trilogy real basses quite problematic. They have far too much low frequency energy in my opinion, way more than most other bass libs have. Have a look at them in a frequency analyser if you don't believe me. I invariably end up putting a high pass filter on Trilogy bass tracks.

I'd try and deal with the bass end at the mix stage rather than fix a problem at the mastering stage.


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## groove (May 17, 2005)

i do believe you...no problem with that !

what ever the spectrum analyser tels you, trust your ears, the analyser is there for mastering not for creating music sound... my modest opinion that is 

again post a mix in a good quality if you whant me to tell you what i ear.


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## Niah (May 17, 2005)

I find that all spectrasonics VST's are quite heavy in the mix: atmosphere, stylus and trilogy. This can be good or bad depending on the situation.
In the case of trilogy a high-cut EQ and some compression are usually the methods I use to control the low freqs when the mix gets too muddy.


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## evaclear (May 17, 2005)

Niah said:


> I find that all spectrasonics VST's are quite heavy in the mix: atmosphere, stylus and trilogy. This can be good or bad depending on the situation.
> In the case of trilogy a high-cut EQ and some compression are usually the methods I use to control the low freqs when the mix gets too muddy.



I think in the right hands (no insinuations at all!!), 'heavy' or shall we say, full spectrum :wink: is good. You'd rather have something to cut, than have to work out how to get more body.


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## d-dmusic (Jul 24, 2005)

I chatted with Eric on another forum about Trilogy and how bass heavy these programs are. I asked for a possible future update/upgrade with pure, DI'ed, unprocessed versions of these basses. Well, I guess we'll see.
The "problem" for me is that soooo much bass has been added that some of the other mid range, "string" tone/beauty is missing. 

Anyway, 2 solutions come to mind and I pretty much need both at the same time to deal with the *heavy, heavy* bass in Trilogy.

1) Within Trilogy is the Master Filter. Set it to High Pass and work with it until you get aprroximately the level of bass that you like. I usually set it anywhere from "31 to 41".

2) Send Trilogy to a "Bass Group". If you have Waves. Slap a C4 multiband compressor on it (and maybe the kick drum as well) and compress the snot out of the bass band. Really. Try working with the upper mid band to try and find some of the upper-mid juice in there. Sonalksis makes a nice multi-band compressor as well.


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## Frederick Russ (Jul 24, 2005)

Marsdy said:


> I'd try and deal with the bass end at the mix stage rather than fix a problem at the mastering stage.



Fixing it in the mix and not in the 2-channel master is the best advice I've heard here so far. Trilogy can be problematic, yes. Extra attention to the channel mix level may prevent the inherent thick bass frequencies from muddying the overall mix later.


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## Scott Cairns (Jul 25, 2005)

You could try rolling off around the 50-100hz mark if the bass is too heavy.

You can actually boost it slightly around 800-1000k, or 1k-6k if you want it to cut through in the mix. 

I agree about rolling off problematic freqs on the track, NOT on the output buss.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jul 25, 2005)

Couldn't agree more with the above statement about Trilogy being too bass heavy.

I use this lib all the time but with the necessary adjustments....


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## griels (Jul 25, 2005)

d-dmusic said:


> I chatted with Eric on another forum about Trilogy and how bass heavy these programs are. I asked for a possible future update/upgrade with pure, DI'ed, unprocessed versions of these basses. Well, I guess we'll see.
> The "problem" for me is that soooo much bass has been added that some of the other mid range, "string" tone/beauty is missing.



Curious, in all my exchanges with Eric so far, he has always stated proudly that the Trilogy engine was 'specially tweaked for bass', without ever being much more specific.. I'd *love* to know exactly what this entailed, but I guess I've hassled him enough about it already. In particular, the demos of the electric bass sound a tad muffled to me, but then I'm used to Scarbee J'Slap'n'Fingered which is beautifully crisp. But I must say the product sounds excellent - having to do a smidgeon of corrective EQ for a particular mix style is a minor problem. And I seriously lust after that damn double bass!


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jul 25, 2005)

Despite the fact that the electric and acoustic basses are a little too powerful in the bottom range, Trilogy IS a great lib.


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## Scott Cairns (Jul 25, 2005)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Despite the fact that the electric and acoustic basses are a little too powerful in the bottom range, Trilogy IS a great lib.



I agree. Id rather have the frequency there to cut too, instead of trying to put it back in. :wink:


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## TARI (Jul 26, 2005)

Scott Cairns said:


> Patrick de Caumette said:
> 
> 
> > Despite the fact that the electric and acoustic basses are a little too powerful in the bottom range, Trilogy IS a great lib.
> ...



I agree as well. With some adjustments Trilogy sounds great. I think that the secret is choosing the right preset for the kind of piece you are composing.


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