# Why are there no video reviews (on You Tube) of Berlin Strings?



## jononotbono (Oct 28, 2019)

Just wondering why there are no video reviews on Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings on You Tube? I just realised that there is very little on the library and I'm wondering why? There's reviews of pretty much everything on You Tube but no Berlin Strings. And it's a pretty huge String Library which is why I'm thinking it's a bit odd. Can anyone with Berlin Strings, that's good at using it, make a video on it? That would be rather good of you! Haha!

Just doing my research before potentially swan diving into a new Orchestra hence the question.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Oct 28, 2019)

Hi there! I actually have a (relatively older) video of Berlin Strings up on my channel.


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## jononotbono (Oct 28, 2019)

Thanks Chris. Is it still your "go to" string library? I noticed you have each library (Strings, Brass, Winds, Perc) for the Berlin Orchestra. Do you have the expansions and if so, how resource hungry is it all?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 28, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Just wondering why there are no video reviews on Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings on You Tube? I just realised that there is very little on the library and I'm wondering why? There's reviews of pretty much everything on You Tube but no Berlin Strings. And it's a pretty huge String Library which is why I'm thinking it's a bit odd. Can anyone with Berlin Strings, that's good at using it, make a video on it? That would be rather good of you! Haha!
> 
> Just doing my research before potentially swan diving into a new Orchestra hence the question.


I was wondering the same a month or so ago. I even wrote to Tobias at support to request that they make an up-to-date walkthrough. And then I just kind of lost interest. 

It's like they don't care...and it's contagious.


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## jononotbono (Oct 28, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I was wondering the same a month or so ago. I even wrote to Tobias at support to request that they make an up-to-date walkthrough. And then I just kind of lost interest.



It's really bizarre. The library is not the cheapest to buy, it seems absolutely massive, everything I hear of it sounds excellent. Why wouldn't there be a ton of content about it?

Fuck it. I'm buying it next week when I get paid... And I'll make a 20hr video on it!


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 28, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> It's really bizarre. The library is not the cheapest to buy, it seems absolutely massive, everything I hear of it sounds excellent. Why wouldn't there be a ton of content about it?
> 
> Fuck it. I'm buying it next week when I get paid... And I'll make a 20hr video on it!


The main thing that interests me about Berlin Strings is the depth of coverage articulation-wise. The main reason I'll probably skip it is because I've read a bunch of user posts about how it just takes more time and fiddling to get things to sound right.

And I'm inclined to believe those posts because that's been my experience with BWW Legacy as well. It takes a while for me to get it to work properly, and it's just draining. But when it finally works it can sound lovely.


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## bvaughn0402 (Oct 28, 2019)

I bought the bullet and got them. I struggled with Spitfire previously (although I am enjoying them more of late). And I was enjoying CSS.

But when I started using Berlin Strings, they end up on 90% of what I do now.


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## jbuhler (Oct 28, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> And I'm inclined to believe those posts because that's been my experience with BWW Legacy as well. It takes a while for me to get it to work properly, and it's just draining. But when it works it can sound lovely


Yes, besides the fact that Berlin Strings didn't work very well when I only had 32GB, the other thing that keeps me from rushing back to try the library now that I have more memory is that it took me roughly 1.5 times as long to program the midi for the library as effectively as I can do SSS and SCS. The result was often but not always marginally better. But for my uses it generally wasn't worth the fuss. I don't know how much of the extra time had to do with fighting system resources and how much with the added detail of the library on the one hand and the recalcitrance of Capsule on the other.


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## jononotbono (Oct 28, 2019)

Curious if Berlin Strings has anything like Spitfire Symphonic Strings Time Machine Patches so short notes can be time stretched? Guess I should RTFM. Probably going to end up getting RTFM tattooed as a back piece one of these days.


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## Mike Fox (Oct 28, 2019)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hi there! I actually have a (relatively older) video of Berlin Strings up on my channel.



I was actually going to recommend your video! You give an excellent demonstration of the library.


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## David Kudell (Oct 28, 2019)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I bought the bullet and got them. I struggled with Spitfire previously (although I am enjoying them more of late). And I was enjoying CSS.
> 
> But when I started using Berlin Strings, they end up on 90% of what I do now.



Hey, I have the same setup as you: iMac Pro, 128GB of RAM, Logic Pro X. How does Berlin Strings perform on that beast? I've read a lot about how the Berlins use a lot of resources, but my iMac Pro pretty much handles everything with ease, so I'm hoping that will be the case with Berlin Strings as well.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Oct 28, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Thanks Chris. Is it still your "go to" string library? I noticed you have each library (Strings, Brass, Winds, Perc) for the Berlin Orchestra. Do you have the expansions and if so, how resource hungry is it all?


It's definitely one of my 2 go-to's, the other being CSS. I tend to layer them (CSS for the lusher, darker sound and BS for the brighter, more detailed one). They create a large, passionate sound I really love. It is quite resource hungry (then again, I first used it when I had 8gb of RAM on my laptop). Now that I have 64, it doesn't affect my workflow much.


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## Zee (Oct 28, 2019)

Personally, i think BS isn't complete without exp A and B they're what make it special IMO


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## Shubus (Oct 29, 2019)

I have the complete Berlin Orchestra with all the expansions. I bought Berlin Strings on the strength of Chris' review. It fills all my needs pretty nicely. I went with Berlin because all instruments are all in the same room (Teldex) and so nothing else (like Mir) is needed is needed. When adding other companies instruments to the Berlin mix additional software is needed tp place them into the Teldex scoring stage. For some reason my ears are extra sensitive to the artifacts created by mixed hall reverbs.


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## Chungus (Oct 29, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Fuck it. I'm buying it next week when I get paid... And I'll make a 20hr video on it!


If you do, bump this thread with the video. I'd be interested in seeing it. Just make it _just a bit_ shorter than 20 hours.


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## jononotbono (Oct 29, 2019)

Chungus said:


> If you do, bump this thread with the video. I'd be interested in seeing it. Just make it _just a bit_ shorter than 20 hours.



20 hrs 😂


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## meradium (Oct 29, 2019)

Just make sure you have a dedicated machine for it with loads of RAM. Their player is terribly inefficient compared with e.g. Spitfire's take on it. It's a shame. But that's how it is. I really hope things will improve with their own player should it happen to come out. But I guess that will open a whole can of new different kind of problems :/ I don't have the Strings - only the WW + Revive and the Brass. But I guess the story is pretty much the same across the entire series.


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## jononotbono (Oct 29, 2019)

meradium said:


> Just make sure you have a dedicated machine for it with loads of RAM. Their player is terribly inefficient compared with e.g. Spitfire's take on it. It's a shame. But that's how it is. I really hope things will improve with their own player should it happen to come out. But I guess that will open a whole can of new different kind of problems :/ I don't have the Strings - only the WW + Revive and the Brass. But I guess the story is pretty much the same across the entire series.



I have a 12 core Mac Pro 5,1 with 96gb of ram sitting in a cupboard that I will dedicate to just Berlin Strings. If that doesn’t run it then I guess I’ll just go back to Edirol Orchestal 😂


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 29, 2019)

meradium said:


> Their player is terribly inefficient compared with e.g. Spitfire's take on it.


Since people are mentioning their experiences with resources, I'll chime in to say that I'm running BWW Legacy and BWW Exp B with all multi instruments loaded (in projects that end up actively using around 50+ instrument tracks in total) all running on 32 gb of ram. 

And for me, it isn't so bad. I'm careful to purge everything and I do get some hiccups, but I find it to be workable.


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## jononotbono (Oct 29, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Since people are mentioning their experiences with resources, I'll chime in to say that I'm running BWW Legacy and BWW Exp B with all multi instruments loaded (in projects that end up actively using around 50+ instrument tracks in total) all running on 32 gb of ram.
> 
> And for me, it isn't so bad. I'm careful to purge everything and I do get some hiccups, but I find it to be workable.



With spitfire stuff I purge everything except for TM patches and Performance patches.
How does purging work with Capsule? I’m very inexperienced with OT libraries at the min.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 29, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> How does purging work with Capsule?


I just purge the same way I do with any Kontakt instrument.


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## jononotbono (Oct 29, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I just purge the same way I do with any Kontakt instrument.



I figured that was the case. And does purging affect anything in capsule? For example, I’ve never been able to use Spitfire TM patches unless they are fully loaded. Which isn’t a problem, it just means I accept that about 6gb of ram is written off just for that. Small price to pay to escape any form of machine gun effect etc.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 29, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I figured that was the case. And does purging affect anything in capsule? For example, I’ve never been able to use Spitfire TM patches unless they are fully loaded. Which isn’t a problem, it just means I accept that about 6gb of ram is written off just for that. Small price to pay to escape any form of machine gun effect etc.


Not that I've noticed, though I don't really use TM patches.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 29, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Curious if Berlin Strings has anything like Spitfire Symphonic Strings Time Machine Patches so short notes can be time stretched? Guess I should RTFM. Probably going to end up getting RTFM tattooed as a back piece one of these days.


Probably better if it is on your arm. You know, where you can see it all the time.  

That said, I have gotten more info from their online support area when I have questions. It seems pretty good? I'm not sure I'm a good judge of these things. My ADD likes nice short answers.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 29, 2019)

Chungus said:


> If you do, bump this thread with the video. I'd be interested in seeing it. Just make it _just a bit_ shorter than 20 hours.


19 hours and 59 minutes....

Actually, I would also be interested. I've ignored it because of the comments about it hobbling the computer. But my new computer is 64 GB RAM and it sounds like it may work if I am judicious in its use.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 29, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> That said, I have gotten more info from their online support area when I have questions. It seems pretty good? I'm not sure I'm a good judge of these things.


I find the http://helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/ag_berlin_strings_articulations.html (Articulation Guides) in the Orchestral Tools Help Desk Website to be helpful. At a glance you can see the articulations, range, number of round robins and dynamic layers.





I kind of like how plain it is. No need to decode marketing, no bullet points. Just the important product information.

I wish every developer had this.

EDIT: And now it's _gone_. Orchestral Tools replaced it with a new website more akin to the marketing bullet points that I mentioned above, and I don't see any place to get this information anymore. Boo.


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## Zee (Oct 29, 2019)

Regarding purged BS instruments even if you purge all the overhead of patches is still quite large compared to Spitfire's so keep that in mind if you do on making a template with all articulations loaded it might be around 8gb or even more


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## jononotbono (Oct 29, 2019)

When I buy it, I will definitely try it out with everything loaded. This kind of filthy behaviour has now become a personal tradition for me. Always like to see what my libraries can or can’t do.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 29, 2019)

BWW Legacy, all multi instruments loaded and purged (except the runs extras) is showing 3.5gb in Activity Monitor. Kontakt 6, Logic 10.4.6.


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## jononotbono (Oct 29, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> BWW Legacy, all multi instruments loaded and purged (except the runs extras) is showing 3.5gb in Activity Monitor. Kontakt 6, Logic 10.4.6.



3.5gb of RAM? That’s nothing. Good to hear!


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## bvaughn0402 (Oct 29, 2019)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> It's definitely one of my 2 go-to's, the other being CSS. I tend to layer them (CSS for the lusher, darker sound and BS for the brighter, more detailed one). They create a large, passionate sound I really love. It is quite resource hungry (then again, I first used it when I had 8gb of RAM on my laptop). Now that I have 64, it doesn't affect my workflow much.



Any chance you might create a video showing that process?


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Oct 29, 2019)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Any chance you might create a video showing that process?


I can do that. What would you like to see specifically?


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## bvaughn0402 (Oct 29, 2019)

I guess just a few examples of how you go about blending those two libraries. I was exclusive to CSS but fell in love with Berlin. I think mixing them would be pretty amazing.

I'm sure that's really vague?!


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## David Kudell (Oct 29, 2019)

Wait, sorry for the n00b question, but what does purging do? Are you saying when I load a Kontakt instrument it’s loading more samples than it needs?


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Oct 29, 2019)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I guess just a few examples of how you go about blending those two libraries. I was exclusive to CSS but fell in love with Berlin. I think mixing them would be pretty amazing.
> 
> I'm sure that's really vague?!


I can do that! In the meantime, enjoy this little comparison video:


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Oct 29, 2019)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I guess just a few examples of how you go about blending those two libraries. I was exclusive to CSS but fell in love with Berlin. I think mixing them would be pretty amazing.
> 
> I'm sure that's really vague?!


This is another where I demonstrate how I approach a couple layering combinations:


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## Zee (Oct 29, 2019)

David Kudell said:


> Are you saying when I load a Kontakt instrument it’s loading more samples than it needs?


Kontakt allows loading the begining of each file in memory to make it responsive when you hit a button and get sound instantly but since it doesnt know which sounds you'll be triggering it does that for a lot of files, so if you use the purge you're basically saying don't load those files until i actually use them which means you'll get delay when you hit the note for the first time but each time after that it'll be fine


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## matthieuL (Oct 30, 2019)

Zee said:


> Kontakt allows loading the begining of each file in memory to make it responsive when you hit a button and get sound instantly but since it doesnt know which sounds you'll be triggering it does that for a lot of files, so if you use the purge you're basically saying don't load those files until i actually use them which means you'll get delay when you hit the note for the first time but each time after that it'll be fine



But I believe it doesn't purge if the Kontakt instance is hosted in VE Pro, right ?


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## Zee (Oct 30, 2019)

matthieuL said:


> But I believe it doesn't purge if the Kontakt instance is hosted in VE Pro, right ?


It did for VEPro 5 not sure if they changed it in later versions


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## I like music (Oct 30, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I find the http://helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/ag_berlin_strings_articulations.html (Articulation Guides) in the Orchestral Tools Help Desk Website to be helpful. At a glance you can see the articulations, range, number of round robins and dynamic layers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We fricking need more 'boring' information like this from more developers. I know that in some cases, it doesn't suit for legit reasons, but things like this can be quite helpful. That said, I can also see how they may unfairly affect a developer e.g. "WHAT! ONLY TWO DYNAMIC LAYERS?!?" when this might not be relevant given how some libraries approach their sampling/modeling.

But, I do believe there is real value in manuals having _this_ kind of 'boring' information.


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## jononotbono (Oct 30, 2019)

matthieuL said:


> But I believe it doesn't purge if the Kontakt instance is hosted in VE Pro, right ?



It purges no matter where you host Kontakt. Purging is a feature of Kontakt so VEPro isn’t going to affect it.


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## Ihnoc (Oct 30, 2019)

Going to leave this here as a suggestion:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/reducing-berlin-series-instruments-memory-usage.77592 

It's made working with Berlin Brass and its expansions easier for me. The impact is much smaller for Berlin Woodwinds Legacy, and I can't comment for the strings or revive winds as I don't own them yet.


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## bvaughn0402 (Oct 30, 2019)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> This is another where I demonstrate how I approach a couple layering combinations:




Thanks! I enjoyed both of those.

Would still love a CSS/Berlin video. Really interested in patches chosen, even down to how you mix them.


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## jononotbono (Nov 4, 2019)

Well... the deed has been done. I can already feel myself starting to fall down a very long and slippery slope.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 4, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Well... the deed has been done. I can already feel myself starting to fall down a very long and slippery slope.


Whoah! Some stuff I'm curious to hear about:

1. Portatos, and in particular the ability to add legato in Capsule to create new building blocks. Portatos are one of my favorite things in my Orchestral Tools libraries.

2. Blurred! Spiccato, Staccato, Portato, Sustain. What? Spiccatos I kind of get, for fast parts.

3. Ostinato arpeggio legato. I'd love to know what it does.

As a non-owner, I look at the http://www.orchestraltools.com/resources/documents/Berlin_Strings_Main.pdf (articulations list) and there's so many goodies, and I have so many questions. They are crazy for not making a real walkthrough video.


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## Chungus (Nov 4, 2019)

A thing I'd like to see is how the different mic positions shapes the sound.


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## Pianolando (Nov 4, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Well... the deed has been done. I can already feel myself starting to fall down a very long and slippery slope.



I don’t think you will be disappointed, it’s an absolutely outstanding library and still my no 1 choice for every production! Congratulations!


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## jononotbono (Nov 4, 2019)

I shall make a video (on the main library and I’ll buy the expansions next month and do a second video on that later).

It’s not like I can afford to do anything else this month now 😂


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## zimm83 (Nov 4, 2019)

Congratulations. 
Yes a new walkthrough could make it !!! 
Have fun.


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## jononotbono (Nov 4, 2019)

Just had a 5 minute play with BS and instantly got excited to see the letters "TM". So I clicked on it and yes, my excitement was because there are Time Machine (time stretch patches) patches just like Spitfire. Now for a batch resave and a proper play with it!


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## David Kudell (Nov 4, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I shall make a video (on the main library and I’ll buy the expansions next month and do a second video on that later).
> 
> It’s not like I can afford to do anything else this month now 😂


Do you happen to own CSS?


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## jononotbono (Nov 4, 2019)

David Kudell said:


> Do you happen to own CSS?



Yes. And CSSS (and CS2). How come?


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## David Kudell (Nov 4, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Yes. And CSSS (and CS2). How come?


Would love to hear your thoughts comparing Berlin Strings to CSS and CSSS. I love OT though and have the Arks and Time series.


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## Nemoy (Nov 4, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I shall make a video (on the main library and I’ll buy the expansions next month and do a second video on that later).
> 
> It’s not like I can afford to do anything else this month now 😂


Yes, please make a video on it if you can. Or Chris. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts and opinions on BS, as well as the various features and articulations available for it. The good and the bad...pros and cons. True, there is not much online content for it.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 4, 2019)

Great idea guys. Will try to have a comparison vid out before Christmas.


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## Nemoy (Nov 4, 2019)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Great idea guys. Will try to have a comparison vid out before Christmas.


Thanks. I'm guessing since there are many string libraries and the recent bbc hype is also why there isn't as many people interested and discussing this library further in this thread. Look forward to your video (out in november even better).


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## samphony (Nov 5, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> It's really bizarre. The library is not the cheapest to buy, it seems absolutely massive, everything I hear of it sounds excellent. Why wouldn't there be a ton of content about it?
> 
> Fuck it. I'm buying it next week when I get paid... And I'll make a 20hr video on it!


Same is true for the brilliant OSR v2 (String Runs).


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## Pianolando (Nov 5, 2019)

David Kudell said:


> Would love to hear your thoughts comparing Berlin Strings to CSS and CSSS. I can’t decide whether its worth buying Berlin since I already have CSS And CSSS. I do love OT though and have the Arks and Time series.



They have a very different basic sound, so it sure can be worth having both for different flavors. I have both BS and CSS(+S) but I’m no good guide in this matter since I’m one of apparently almost no one who was disappointed with CSS when I bought it, and have never used it for a real project since I got it.

What I can tell is that BS is more “classical” sounding, a smaller, yet not chamber-sized ensemble. It has three levels of vibrato, all recorded (none, normal, romantic - or something like that) while CSS has a much bigger vibrato, larger ensemble and a bit darker sound (to my ears). BS has much more articulations/techniques. They definitely do compliment each other, my only problem was that I realized that CSS wasn't flexible in the ways I needed so I never got it to sound like I wanted it to.


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## Vik (Nov 5, 2019)

I also have both and agree that they both are worth having. They both sound good, but different from each other. BS has a lot more advanced options, while CSS has a simple user interface combined with having paid a lot more attention to detail than some other string libraries.


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## jononotbono (Nov 5, 2019)

David Kudell said:


> Would love to hear your thoughts comparing Berlin Strings to CSS and CSSS. I can’t decide whether its worth buying Berlin since I already have CSS And CSSS. I do love OT though and have the Arks and Time series.



Well I could certainly go through them if that’s of interest. They are very different libraries though and I’m not sure it’s a fair comparison. However, why not if it’s fun!

BST has got a huge number of articulations and options in comparison the CSS.

I would say comparing BST to SCS or SSS would be much more in a ballpark for a comparison. Sure, the player count is different but they are both deep String libraries with a huge amount of options. I have every patch of SCS and SSS in a template so I could do a comparison of all this stuff when I find the time. Might have to film it over a couple of sessions and 40hrs+ haha


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 5, 2019)

@amadeus1 has done a video comparison of Berlin Strings versus Spitfire Symphonic Strings.


And, as has been mentioned in this thread, @ChrisSiuMusic did a video comparing Berlin Strings to Cinematic Studio Strings, though that one is less of a patch-by-patch walkthrough.

Personally, what I'm missing is the deep dive into the unique features of Berlin Strings (the stuff I mentioned: portatos, blurred, arp legato, the plethora of shorts, etc.)

Also, the consistency of articulations. For example, if you change portatos from long to short, do they keep the same volume? If you line up varied types of shorts, do the volumes match, and can the phrases built with multiple articulations really flow? Do the spiccato lengths and volumes of violins 1 match violas? That type of stuff. I realize it's not as sexy of a topic as tone, but for me it is probably even more important.


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## jononotbono (Nov 5, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> @amadeus1 has done a video comparison of Berlin Strings versus Spitfire Symphonic Strings.
> 
> 
> And, as has been mentioned in this thread, @ChrisSiuMusic did a video comparing Berlin Strings to Cinematic Studio Strings, though that one is less of a patch-by-patch walkthrough.
> ...




Yeah. I’ll just do a BST one to start with. It’s what I wanted for myself anyway. Then maybe some other stuff. It’s difficult though finding the time for all this stuff. The studio I work at is demanding (I’ve had 4 days off in 3 months) and there’s a reason I haven’t made tons of videos. I don’t wanna make any that suck! There’s plenty of dogs brown on You Tube, it’s like a burst piss pipe and I don’t wanna add to it... too much. 😂


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## muk (Nov 5, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Also, the consistency of articulations. For example, if you change portatos from long to short, do they keep the same volume? If you line up varied types of shorts, do the volumes match, and can the phrases built with multiple articulations really flow? Do the spiccato lengths and volumes of violins 1 match violas? That type of stuff. I realize it's not as sexy of a topic as tone, but for me it is probably even more important.



That's something I'm interested in as well. I have Berlin Strings First Chairs, and there this is a total mess. Everything is frustratingly inconsistent, and for me it's just painful to work with. It's what kept me from buying Berlin Strings during the sale last year.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 5, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> @amadeus1 has done a video comparison of Berlin Strings versus Spitfire Symphonic Strings.
> 
> 
> And, as has been mentioned in this thread, @ChrisSiuMusic did a video comparing Berlin Strings to Cinematic Studio Strings, though that one is less of a patch-by-patch walkthrough.
> ...




I dunno. Maybe it's the way that guy plays through stuff, but neither of those libraries sound appealing to me. Actually, I've never seen any Berlin videos that show their libraries are with the hefty price tag.


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## Chungus (Nov 5, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Might have to film it over a couple of sessions and 40hrs+ haha


You're doing your avatar justice. Because those are the words of an absolute mad man.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 5, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I dunno. Maybe it's the way that guy plays through stuff, but neither of those libraries sound appealing to me. Actually, I've never seen any Berlin videos that show their libraries are with the hefty price tag.


Maybe Orchestral tools can take a break from making videos about ethnic flutes and zithers and do a detailed walkthrough of stuff they currently sell--namely their _most expensive product_, which also happens to be the most expensive core strings library in existence that I'm aware of. 🤷‍♂️


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## Chungus (Nov 5, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Maybe Orchestral tools can take a break from making videos about ethnic flutes and zithers and do a detailed walkthrough of stuff they currently sell--namely their _most expensive product_, which also happens to be the most expensive strings library in existence that I'm aware of. 🤷‍♂️


The full version of Syncron Strings is more expensive, by about €150. Besides that, I fully agree with you.


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## ProfoundSilence (Nov 5, 2019)

Chungus said:


> The full version of Syncron Strings is more expensive, by about €150. Besides that, I fully agree with you.


hard to compare, because if you count expansions ABCDE + BS main, is it more or less than synchron strings 1 and 2?


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## Chungus (Nov 6, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> hard to compare, because if you count expansions ABCDE + BS main, is it more or less than synchron strings 1 and 2?


Syncron+FX would cost €1,630, while the full BS collection would come out at 1,769.

In an apples-to-apples comparison, I wouldn't count the BS expansions, though. As SS doesn't have the stuff said expansions provide.


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## ProfoundSilence (Nov 6, 2019)

Chungus said:


> Syncron+FX would cost €1,630, while the full BS collection would come out at 1,769.
> 
> In an apples-to-apples comparison, I wouldn't count the BS expansions, though. As SS doesn't have the stuff said expansions provide.



there is no apples to apples comparison, because neither completely covers either iirc - however it's definitely a misstep to dismiss the expansions - as the entire lineup works that way, including some expansions releasing before the main libraries even did


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## jononotbono (Nov 6, 2019)

Yeah Berlin Strings is the main and all expansions.


----------



## David Kudell (Nov 6, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Well I could certainly go through them if that’s of interest. They are very different libraries though and I’m not sure it’s a fair comparison. However, why not if it’s fun!
> 
> BST has got a huge number of articulations and options in comparison the CSS



That’s what I kinda figured. I really love CSS, would love to add Berlin Strings. My favorite part of Berlin Inspire is the Flautando Strings, and they’re in EXP A and B.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 7, 2019)

BST is certainly a beast! A single Legato with multiple Mic Positions! 2.64gb of RAM! Very interested now to know how much RAM the whole library will take. No doubt this will have to be like SSO. Decca Tree only and use more mics as and when the music takes shape.

Still, does any of this dogs brown matter when you sound so good? Haha


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 7, 2019)

Anyway, Purging the samples works like a charm and the samples playback perfect upon a Key press as played on a controller


----------



## Chungus (Nov 8, 2019)

What's that noise slider do? Bowing noises, I assume?


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 8, 2019)

Chungus said:


> What's that noise slider do? Bowing noises, I assume?



It controls how many swear words the players mumble under their breath.

Although I wish that were true, you are correct. Very cool feature!


----------



## Chungus (Nov 8, 2019)

Noise? More like


Kinda wish the woodwinds library had a similar slider for key noises.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 9, 2019)

Started putting BST in my template and also started filming a few things. Loving the library so far!


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## jononotbono (Nov 9, 2019)

Ok, so I have every patch of BST Main in my template (excluding the TM Patches). Took a while to put them in there but the computer hasn't died so that's a nice start!


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## Chungus (Nov 9, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Ok, so I have every patch of BST Main in my template (excluding the TM Patches). Took a while to put them in there but the computer hasn't died so that's a nice start!


How much RAM is the templating munching?

How, also: Another thing I'll request being explored, is how the legato arti/applying legato to other arties in the multi compares to the stand-alone legato patch.

Is the adaptive scripting carried over?


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 9, 2019)

Chungus said:


> How much RAM is the templating munching?
> 
> How, also: Another thing I'll request being explored, is how the legato arti/applying legato to other arties in the multi compares to the stand-alone legato patch.
> 
> Is the adaptive scripting carried over?



Well, you are gonna have to bear with me on this as I'm just playing through every patch and checking them out. I haven't loaded any of the multis but can and will when I know how to use Capsule.

I'm just curious about Delay Compensation for the Arts at the minute so about to continue reading the manual


----------



## pipedr (Nov 9, 2019)

I'd love if someone could demonstrate the different attacks and the application of legato between longs and the arcs and crescendos/decrecendos. Are these useful for patching together more dynamic phrases?


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 9, 2019)

Chungus said:


> Another thing I'll request being explored, is how the legato arti/applying legato to other arties in the multi compares to the stand-alone legato patch.
> 
> Is the adaptive scripting carried over?


You got me curious, so I checked with Berlin Strings First Chairs, and I believe the answer is yes.

In the Multis, you can toggle legato on/off for longs, portatos, tremolos, and trills.





Then, by clicking the wrench you can apply different legato types to each of the three legato zones.





From the main Multi window, click the lock icon in the top right, and you'll see a display which tells you which legato zone you are currently triggering while playing.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 10, 2019)

So how many people are using Multi Articulation Patches or using Single Articulation Patches?


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 10, 2019)

For Orchestral Tools I use multis when I can. But sometimes they are missing articulations or features. (Tip: Check both folders. You might find patches in the single articulations that you didn't know exist.)

Also, since Orchestral Tools isn't always the best for keeping patches consistent, you'd need to make volume and dynamic range changes in capsule. And usually those need to be done in single patches because the changes are applied to the whole Kontakt instance.


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## jononotbono (Nov 10, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Also, since Orchestral Tools isn't always the best for keeping patches consistent, you'd need to make volume and dynamic range changes in capsule. And usually those need to be done in single patches because the changes are applied to the whole Kontakt instance.



That's interesting to know because I'm reading the manual and it says they have balanced everything?






I'm reading about the runs patches? Can't seem to find those. Probably being blind.


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## jbuhler (Nov 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> That's interesting to know because I'm reading the manual and it says they have balanced everything?



Yes, that’s what they say. I find OT to be quite inconsistent. Or the realities of how I use samples does not conform to what their engineers have decided is balanced. I also find OT patches much harder to control than other companies. Not uniformly—some of the patches in the Arks behave as I would expect and think they should but many do not. Berlin Strings always takes me a lot of fussing to get to sound the way I want it to. It’s the main reason I don’t use the library much even though I really like the sound.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> That's interesting to know because I'm reading the manual and it says they have balanced everything?


Let me introduce you to the concept of _marketing_.


----------



## muk (Nov 10, 2019)

That claim is embarassing. I can only speak about Berlin Strings First Chairs, but that library is about as imbalanced as I have seen anywhere in sample land. 

I posted a few examples here: 






Berlin Strings First Chairs vs CSSS?


From the email that I just received, it appears that Berlin First Chairs is getting what is described as "better legato performance", some sample fixes and a first chair double bass, in version 2.0. Furthermore, it is on sale for a couple of weeks for €199. I'm wondering how this compares to...




vi-control.net





That's what made me not buy Berlin Strings.


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## Farkle (Nov 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> That's interesting to know because I'm reading the manual and it says they have balanced everything?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I cannot speak for the Berlin Winds "NEW", or the strings, brass, but I have the BWW Legacy (the first version), and I can say factually that the winds in that are completely out of whack, balance wise. In fact, I pulled the samples out of the instruments, and rebuilt them, to behave properly. It's not just a dynamics/volume imbalance, random frequencies (especially low 100 to 200 hz) buildups occur as you play through various dynamics. Again, I have no idea how the BWW Revive, or the strings and brass behave, but the first BWW was completely unbalanced.

Mike


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## jononotbono (Nov 10, 2019)

Farkle said:


> I cannot speak for the Berlin Winds "NEW", or the strings, brass, but I have the BWW Legacy (the first version), and I can say factually that the winds in that are completely out of whack, balance wise. In fact, I pulled the samples out of the instruments, and rebuilt them, to behave properly. It's not just a dynamics/volume imbalance, random frequencies (especially low 100 to 200 hz) buildups occur as you play through various dynamics. Again, I have no idea how the BWW Revive, or the strings and brass behave, but the first BWW was completely unbalanced.
> 
> Mike



Interesting. I haven't experienced any Virtual Orchestra being properly balanced so I didn't expect it to be. I'm just wondering why they advertise it as so if many people are adamant that it's not?

Here's a question about Mic Positions. The A / B Mic. Here's the description...






Is this basically an Outrigger Mic like you would find in SSO?


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 10, 2019)

Also, what was the reasoning for not including Crossfadeable Vibrato?


----------



## Robin (Nov 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Also, what was the reasoning for not including Crossfadeable Vibrato?


You can crossfade in the Multis.


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Also, what was the reasoning for not including Crossfadeable Vibrato?


I think you are supposed to lock a multi (I can’t remember the term for this) and then use Capule to crossfade between them. And with that arrangement you can crossfade from any patch to any other, and iirc you can morph among 4 different patches. Personally I’ve never been able to figure out how it works. I can load patches into it but the crossfade doesn’t happen.


----------



## Zee (Nov 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> what was the reasoning for not including Crossfadeable Vibrato?


You can do it using capsule as they've already mentioned above they think it introduces phasing issues which is why they don't provide it but personally i think using the romantic vibrato gives better result


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 10, 2019)

Yeah, I have been playing about with the Multis and understanding the power that it brings. Gotta put the multis in the template as well as the single Arts then.


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## jononotbono (Nov 10, 2019)

This is driving me mad. I am trying to crossfade arts in the multi patches and having no luck. Literally staring at the manual and watching the videos. I have to be doing something wrong.

I switch the Mono/Poly KS button to Poly.
I make sure it's on CC Switch
I hit Alt / Cmd, and then move a fader that I want to be used for CC Switching.
I also press 4 Keyswitches to load 4 arts in the capsule

Nothing. Anyone here have any problems with this?

Having the KS button on Mono and just using literal Key switches works fine. Poly KS and using Vel Switch works fine as well.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 10, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I think you are supposed to lock a multi (I can’t remember the term for this) and then use Capule to crossfade between them. And with that arrangement you can crossfade from any patch to any other, and iirc you can morph among 4 different patches. Personally I’ve never been able to figure out how it works. I can load patches into it but the crossfade doesn’t happen.



I just wrote that above message without reading this. Yeah, I'm struggling to get this to work and I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong. Hmmmm.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 10, 2019)

So here's a screen shot of the multi...






And here's a Screen Shot of the Controller Table. I feel like I'm missing something Painfully obvious here. I've used CC2 for CC Switch. I've also tried CC 21. Basically nothing happens when I move the fader that is assigned to CC2


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 10, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> So here's a screen shot of the multi...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure, but try this. Click the box icon (left arrow), select cc switch mode (middle arrow), set to cc2 or cc21 (right arrow).


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 10, 2019)

Yeah I've tried that so many times to no such luck. However, I've just got it working some how. I have a fader set to cc22 (Usually for a Mic Position for Spitfire Stuff) And the Xfade /Switch option suddenly worked. Not sure why I can't get it to work just by using (in this case) cc2 to purely only use CC Switch


----------



## Ihnoc (Nov 11, 2019)

To give you a hand Jono: in the instrument image you uploaded there, you have things set to CC Switch. The "MI - CC Switch Mode" controller (CC26 by default) turns CC Switch on and off.

To move through the different positions when set to CC Switch or CC XFade, you need to use the controller set for "MI - X Fade/Switch", which as you've found is CC22.

http://www.helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/ug_controller_table_annotated_list.html


----------



## richhickey (Nov 11, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Yeah I've tried that so many times to no such luck. However, I've just got it working some how. I have a fader set to cc22 (Usually for a Mic Position for Spitfire Stuff) And the Xfade /Switch option suddenly worked. Not sure why I can't get it to work just by using (in this case) cc2 to purely only use CC Switch



This (slot switch problem) seems to be just one symptom of a general problem the Capsule script has with laggy processing of (isolated?) CC messages.

Here's is an example I sent to OT support, just involving CC1. In the following sequence, the CC1 messages precede the notes by 50 ticks (to work around Kontakt's CC reordering bug). Notice how the CC1 fader next to the keyboard and the outer ring of the xfade image respond instantly to the message, but the dynamic transition lags significantly, transitioning well into the note.



I am finding this behavior everywhere, and it is a big problem for writing scripts for the Berlin series instruments. There must be some 'CC slew/thinning' logic somewhere. That's why you might get better results sliding a fader rather than from discrete CC messages. This plus Kontakt's CC reordering bug makes scripting Berlin/Capsule, driving it from notation programs etc, a headache. Only keyswitches work reliably, but many controls need CCs.

I raised this with OT support back in February and had a long go round with OT Tobias, but nothing has changed afaik.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 11, 2019)

richhickey said:


> This (slot switch problem) seems to be just one symptom of a general problem the Capsule script has with laggy processing of (isolated?) CC messages.
> 
> Here's is an example I sent to OT support, just involving CC1. In the following sequence, the CC1 messages precede the notes by 50 ticks (to work around Kontakt's CC reordering bug). Notice how the CC1 fader next to the keyboard and the outer ring of the xfade image respond instantly to the message, but the dynamic transition lags significantly, transitioning well into the note.
> 
> ...




ok thanks. I’m glad it’s not just me being an idiot. I can see why blending arts is useful and it gives a lot of possibilities but I don’t really work like that so I’m gonna load the miltos that’s have dynamic arts and runs etc and probably not worry about the other multis. It is nice to use the scripted legato on any patch as well but I’ll have to see whether I ever use that. Not that the library long enough to know yet.


----------



## Vik (Nov 11, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> So here's a screen shot of the multi...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Jono,
The CC you want to use to actually perform the cross-switching is this parameter:






If you want to use CC2 to switch between various articulations, set that parameter to CC2.

There are other parameters that's easy to get fooled by, for instance the parameters used to switch to a different mode (not to a different articulation). When you write "I've used CC2 for CC switch", that's confusing to me... do you mean the one called "MI - CC Switch mode"? That feature is there to activate CC Switch mode - you can switch between CC Switch, Vel Switch etc on the fly with one fader (eg CC26), while you use CC2 or CC22 or whatever you want to actually switch or fade between articulations. When will it switch and when will it fade? That depends on which mode you have activated, either with the mouse or with some CC (other than the one you use to switch or fade articulations with).


----------



## Vik (Nov 11, 2019)

As a side note - If you want "2D-fading", meaning that you crossfade between three or four articulations, you need to use both the parameter I was pointing at in the previous message, and the one below it.

That's because you need two faders to freely fade between three or four articulations – one for the X axis and one for the Y axis. 

For this to work, you must enable the mode called CC Fade 2D first. To make all this less confusing right now it's easiest to do this with a mouse:


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 11, 2019)

Thanks man. Makes sense. I’ll have to have another play with this when back at my apartment.


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## Nemoy (Nov 11, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Thanks man. Makes sense. I’ll have to have another play with this when back at my apartment.


Is your 20 hr video on berlin strings on the way? Lol, I'd be fine with 2-3 hrs at least. Would love to hear you covering it in detail, the pros and cons. Thanks


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 11, 2019)

Nemoy said:


> Is your 20 hr video on berlin strings on the way? Lol, I'd be fine with 2-3 hrs at least. Would love to hear you covering it in detail, the pros and cons. Thanks



20hrs may be a little bit much but I am working on a video.  Just finished at the studio I work at for the day so may record something tonight. Just have to add some multi patches into my template first so I have absolutely everything loaded and I've also been learning how to use the library instead of just making a video not having a clue how anything works and then slagging it off unnecessarily.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Nov 11, 2019)

I find 2d crossfade works absolutely flawlessly - although I don't use it often(most of my berlin strings are set up as xfade)


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 11, 2019)

Nemoy said:


> Is your 20 hr video on berlin strings on the way? Lol, I'd be fine with 2-3 hrs at least. Would love to hear you covering it in detail, the pros and cons. Thanks



I just recorded 2 hrs 37 mins so I guess I'll edit it and upload it this week! Hopefully I haven't missed out too much stuff. Probably have haha


----------



## Zee (Nov 11, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Hopefully I haven't missed out too much stuff. Probably have haha


Maybe we can help you discover it by pointing out if you've missed somehing


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 11, 2019)

Jono, if I recall you had a thread where you dived into Hollywood Strings some time ago. What are your findings if you would compare HS to Berlin Strings?


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 12, 2019)

borisb2 said:


> Jono, if I recall you had a thread where you dived into Hollywood Strings some time ago. What are your findings if you would compare HS to Berlin Strings?



I bought Hollywood Orchestra Diamond when on an amazing offer. It’s a beast and I love it. Shame I haven’t brought it with me to the US. I do have my ilok and licenses but I’m not sure if I can download the samples as I bought it on a HDD. I would also need to buy more SSDs if I wanted to use it right now as well and at the minute I don’t need it.

I may think about doing a comparison video at some point but I don’t have a huge amount of time at the minute so if I make any videos they have to be worth it and I think there’s a lot on Hollywood Strings already?


----------



## borisb2 (Nov 12, 2019)

no worries .. just was interested what was your impression regarding tuning / consistency etc. .. with HS I do find a few detuneing issues here and there - dependant on which patches was used

nice review that compares HS, Berlin, LASS and Adagio:


----------



## Nemoy (Nov 12, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I just recorded 2 hrs 37 mins so I guess I'll edit it and upload it this week! Hopefully I haven't missed out too much stuff. Probably have haha


Thank youuu. Always great to hear more opinions on it, especially like you mentioned there are not many videos covering it in depth besides the official ones. Look forward to checking out your video and giving it a big thumbs up for your time and efforts.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 12, 2019)

Nemoy said:


> Thank youuu. Always great to hear more opinions on it, especially like you mentioned there are not many videos covering it in depth besides the official ones. Look forward to checking out your video and giving it a big thumbs up for your time and efforts.



Going to have to re record it! Just checked the files after leaving them exporting all night (was a 315gb video file haha) and something messed up the recording! Slight set back. And I'll try it again in a bit! 

I can only offer my look at it. Someone that has used it for years is going to be infinitely better and demonstrating the library but what the hell. It's a bit of fun right!


----------



## rlundv (Nov 16, 2019)

A little demo of the Berlin-range, to chime in to the discussion here.

Strings, woods and almost soundless perc, all from OT. Piano is Garritan CFX.

It takes a while to get the libraries intra-/extra-balance to sound right, but it's worth it in the end, even if the mentioned bugs can be a pain in the ass to maneuver around. Also having a score with a original recording to mock up and compare, is very helpful.

Link to *scores*



Original:


----------



## pipedr (Nov 16, 2019)

beyd770 said:


> A little demo of the Berlin-range, to chime in to the discussion here.
> 
> Strings, woods and almost soundless perc, all from OT. Piano is Garritan CFX.
> 
> ...



Very nice! Did you use the con sordino simulation for the high violins at the end? Were these all strings from the main library?


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 16, 2019)

Ok, I just re-recorded it, It'll be about 3hrs 30mins and currently waiting for the footage to encode so I can put it together. Hopefully upload this weekend. Sorry it's not 20hrs


----------



## Chungus (Nov 16, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Ok, I just re-recorded it, It'll be about 3hrs 30mins and currently waiting for the footage to encode so I can put it together. Hopefully upload this weekend. Sorry it's not 20hrs


While we wait; I read that the multis on BS are separated between longs and shorts, and one can't load artis from one into the other.

Can you confirm this is the case?


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 16, 2019)

In the shorts multi, you can only load these that are found in the Longs multi...

Portato Blurred
Portato Long

Longs and shorts are separate. It's more than likely to do with the scripting which creates scripted Legato between the non Legato Longs not working properly with the Shorts. Which is fair enough.


----------



## Chungus (Nov 16, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> In the shorts multi, you can only load these that are found in the Longs multi...
> 
> Portato Blurred
> Portato Long
> ...


🤔 Ark1 can put longs and shorts in the same multi just fine. And judging by the walkthroughs, so can other OT libraries - ones in the rest of the Berlin series, included. So not having this here confounds me.

Being some-one who likes to use one midi channel per instrument, the I'm not stoked about this, either. Enough so for the desirability of BS to drop some for me.

Your walkthrough will be the deciding factor if I'll end up buying BS, myself. No pressure. xD


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 16, 2019)

Chungus said:


> 🤔 Ark1 can put longs and shorts in the same multi just fine. And judging by the walkthroughs, so can other OT libraries - ones in the rest of the Berlin series, included. So not having this here confounds me.
> 
> Being some-one who likes to use one midi channel per instrument, the I'm not stoked about this, either. Enough so for the desirability of BS to drop some for me.
> 
> Your walkthrough will be the deciding factor if I'll end up buying BS, myself. No pressure. xD



No pressure. haha

Well, I get what you're saying and I guess it would be nice to be able to choose what you want (I don't really use Multis and more of a separate track per art type person) but there are way too many articulations to have in just one multi. SO you'd have more than one midi track anyway (assuming so many arts would be used). UACC with Spitfire is good with this type of thing but it's a different dev and sound etc. Guess it depends how you want to work. By the way, the short selection is awesome (I love the Exposed Spiccs in particular). And the Soft Sustain is killer. The Multi called Dynamics are a collection of 12 Dynamic Bowings and they've got so much vibe. Hopefully I've painted the library in a honest light. Well, you can't get much more honest than just showing everything in it. No fucking about with this. Every single patch played and shown


----------



## MartinH. (Nov 16, 2019)

Chungus said:


> Being some-one who likes to use one midi channel per instrument, the I'm not stoked about this, either. Enough so for the desirability of BS to drop some for me.



Does it need to be one midi channel or is one track enough? I use Ark1 with one midi track per section and set the midi channel per note with hotkeys to pick articulations. In kontakt it's routed to one single articulation patch per channel. I don't like keyswitches. If you're using reaper, might be worth looking into the reaticulate extension.

edit: 


Chungus said:


> Your walkthrough will be the deciding factor if I'll end up buying BS, myself. No pressure. xD



I don't have the library but based on your statement I would recommend to not buy it. If you're this unsure it's easy to be disappointed and I have no doubt that it will have _some _flaws that will be annoying to find.


----------



## shawnsingh (Nov 16, 2019)

@Chungus I haven't tried myself yet, but I think it would work if you just assigned the same MIDI channel to two separate instruments, one with longs and other with shorts. I think you can clear the corresponding slots for one capsule instance or the other, so that only long or short is played for that keyswitch.


----------



## rlundv (Nov 17, 2019)

pipedr said:


> Very nice! Did you use the con sordino simulation for the high violins at the end? Were these all strings from the main library?


No, no sordino-emulation, and yes - all from the main library


----------



## Chungus (Nov 17, 2019)

shawnsingh said:


> @Chungus I haven't tried myself yet, but I think it would work if you just assigned the same MIDI channel to two separate instruments, one with longs and other with shorts. I think you can clear the corresponding slots for one capsule instance or the other, so that only long or short is played for that keyswitch.


Ya, I've read that before. But unless a set-up like that can be saved in capsule, that work-around would become tedious for me real quick.



MartinH. said:


> Does it need to be one midi channel or is one track enough? I use Ark1 with one midi track per section and set the midi channel per note with hotkeys to pick articulations. In kontakt it's routed to one single articulation patch per channel. I don't like keyswitches. If you're using reaper, might be worth looking into the reaticulate extension.



One channel per instrument. So channel 1 for vlns1, another for vlns2, and so on. I personally quite like using key switches to manage artis. Though if there is a scenario where I'd need to switch a lot, I'd instead use BSRO Articulate.



MartinH. said:


> I don't have the library but based on your statement I would recommend to not buy it. If you're this unsure it's easy to be disappointed and I have no doubt that it will have _some _flaws that will be annoying to find.



It's really the separate multis that are off-putting. Like, that's the main thing that drove me away from East-West.

I am indeed rather leaning towards passing on BS, but if the rest of the functionality of the library is good enough, I might decide to suck it up and get it anyway. We'll see.


----------



## Zee (Nov 17, 2019)

Chungus said:


> Ya, I've read that before. But unless a set-up like that can be saved in capsule, that work-around would become tedious for me real quick


could just save the two instruments as a kontakt multi and just route both of them to the same midi channel


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 17, 2019)

The walkthrough is uploading. May take a couple of hours.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 17, 2019)

Ok, here's a link to my walkthrough of Berlin Strings!

Definitely need a faster computer for Video work. Man, render times are painful! Thank tits for Netflix! 

https://vi-control.net/community/th...h-orchestral-tools-berlin-strings-main.87120/


----------



## Chungus (Nov 17, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Ok, here's a link to my walkthrough of Berlin Strings!
> 
> Definitely need a faster computer for Video work. Man, render times are painful! Thank tits for Netflix!
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...h-orchestral-tools-berlin-strings-main.87120/


yeyeye. It's past midnight on my end at the time of this posting, so I won't be able to watch the whole thing today. But I'll definitely start.

Also, where's your accent from? Kinda sounds south-ish? Like, Brighton or thereabouts. 🤔


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 17, 2019)

Chungus said:


> yeyeye. It's past midnight on my end at the time of this posting, so I won't be able to watch the whole thing today. But I'll definitely start.
> 
> Also, where's your accent from? Kinda sounds south-ish? Like, Brighton or thereabouts. 🤔



I'm from the Isle of Wight. Down South UK.

I wouldn't watch this walk through until tomorrow (or at least a few hours). Apparently You Tube is still processing it and it's currently in 360p (not 1080p) which is rather painful!


----------



## Chungus (Nov 17, 2019)

Hah. I got the south part down. What's a bit of sea's worth of difference when you've got that. 

And it's 1080p by this point, so that's good. Got a bit of criticism for you, however:

Every walkthrough should start with "I'm very excited to show you today--" xD


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 17, 2019)

Chungus said:


> Every walkthrough should start with "I'm very excited to show you today--" xD


----------



## Chungus (Nov 18, 2019)

2:25:32. It's the Resident Evil basement theme. xD

And fast forward, I've finished watching the whole thing. Conclusion; yeah, BS isn't for me. The sound is good, but it would run counter to my workflow too much.

Kinda hoping that will be changed in OT's player when that launches, but I sincerely doubt it would.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 29, 2020)

Hey Luke,
I just watched your little quick view of BS
Thanks for doing it, really appreciated.

So a year later, any new thoughts after the honeymoon stage?
You use it more? less? likes/dislikes?


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## jononotbono (Nov 29, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Hey Luke,
> I just watched your little quick view of BS
> Thanks for doing it, really appreciated.
> 
> ...



It’s a great string library. I haven’t bought the expansions still. Just had other things I wanted to buy. I’m eagerly waiting for it to be ported to SINE but the main thing I dislike about it is not being able to mix and match the shorts and the longs in one kontakt capsule. In SINE you can add whatever you like. Other than that, I have no complaints about it. It’s a great library to have, and is a wicked addition to spitfire chamber and symphonic strings as all three have different player counts!

I’ll make some little 24+ hour videos soon as I know people appreciate short walkthroughs.


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