# Logic team says no environment in Logic X?



## mosso (May 22, 2013)

Hey all,

I know this is rumour-mongering, but I just read a comment on Google+ from someone claiming to have spoken to the team lead on Logic and that they are getting rid of the environment in Logic X because "nobody uses it".

Here's the link (read the first comment); http://plus.google.com/1158153106938150 ... N28BfCS92K

Personally speaking, the environment is one of my favourite features of Logic and I'd be gutted if they got rid of it.


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## wlotz (May 22, 2013)

Well, I just hope it's not true...


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## JPQ (May 22, 2013)

Soudns bad i even dont know fully what enviorment allows. but i hope they make option make gui bit more contrast. but i dont know still how soon i buy upgrade to logic if is stuff which must be buyed becouse i need samples even getting them means at least few years if there is no suprises come.


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## FriFlo (May 22, 2013)

I have used the enviroment for years and thought it was killer! 2 years ago a went farther and bought Max MSP. Since then, I am switching over to Cubase, because the enviroment can only route midi data based on channel, not per port. This way, with Max Cubase is more flexible to me.
About those rumors: Most of them are fakes IMO. But Apple is so badly behind with both their Mac pros and Logic, that they will really have to surprise me with some killer features, that I would care for any news at this point. In Cubase and the PC world a good multitouch display integration is really close to become something meaningful. Apple, the inventor of the smart phone, has not cared to make their recent OS X version multitouch. Neither did they make a Logic iPad App (for control), which would have been so obvious! Only two examples for what they are totally behind with ... I don't believe they are interested in anything but their massive iPhone sales anymore.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 22, 2013)

Without the Environment, Logic wouldn't be Logic. Everything in the program is there or it's not in the program!

Someone must have grabbed hold of the wrong end of the stick.


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## JPQ (May 22, 2013)

And one reason is maybe this (which sounds nice?  ) they made totally new thing which replaces Enviroment but makes still samethings but something what Enviroment dont do. what kind things i dont say anything but purely thinking.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 22, 2013)

It isn't true.


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## KEnK (May 22, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed May 22 said:


> It isn't true.


I hope you're right Jay.

Personally, I was immediately fearful for Logic's future when Apple took it over.
There's been virtually no developments in the environment for years.
W/ current technology- 
it could be utilizing many of the type of audio processing tools we see in programs like MAX.

How cool would that be? 
Imagine if the Environment processed audio!
Why not?

k


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## EastWest Lurker (May 22, 2013)

I am right. I don't make blanket unequivocal statements like that unless I am sure.


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## dinerdog (May 22, 2013)

Personally, I hope Logic undergoes as big a change as Final Cut Pro did. For me, there's so much I don't need or use and some simple things I'd kill for. While I've never liked or used Garageband much, I hope it's kind of a testing ground for some features. For instance, the whole way Logic stores projects and samples is a bloated mess IMO. I just noticed that Garageband (like Reason) makes each song a monolithic single file that holds all the songs data. Also, when you highlight a Garageband song, you not only get a screenshot of the arrange page (like Logic), but it plays the preview too. Little things like that make life easier and more efficient. 

On a (possibly) related note, I hope they incorporate some Final Cut audio features. I don't know if anyones noticed in FCPX that when you drop an audio plug on a clip, visually the clip changes to reflect what's been done without it even playing. So visually you can see what an entire audio wave looks like while you adjust parameters etc...

It's working for me now (except that 64bit Quicktime audio layback), so anything incremental doesn't really change the game.

I, for one am looking to be happily surprised by a wildly different Logic X.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 22, 2013)

dinerdog @ Wed May 22 said:


> Personally, I hope Logic undergoes as big a change as Final Cut Pro did. For me, there's so much I don't need or use and some simple things I'd kill for. While I've never liked or used Garageband much, I hope it's kind of a testing ground for some features. For instance, the whole way Logic stores projects and samples is a bloated mess IMO. I just noticed that Garageband (like Reason) makes each song a monolithic single file that holds all the songs data. Also, when you highlight a Garageband song, you not only get a screenshot of the arrange page (like Logic), but it plays the preview too. Little things like that make life easier and more efficient.
> 
> I, for one am looking to be happily surprised by a wildly different Logic X.



Boy, almost everything you want I would hate. But I do suspect that monolith approach to be implemented as my guess is Apple will order them to do it.

I, as a user, want to drive the bus, have as much control over it as I can and not let Apple decide for me. And while you may see a lot of things that you "don't need or use", respectfully, some of us long time users do use that stuff a lot.


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## floydian05 (May 22, 2013)

I don't need to constantly have more and new features, I'd rather they fix or improve existing features. 

- AAF/OMF importing works horribly
- be able to set bounces to by default go to where i want rather than manually doing it each time
- implement an autosave and improve the way that files are saved
- Exporting and controlling video doesn't work in 64 bit mode very well
- Optimize performance overall

I never use Environment and have no interest in it but as Jay says more control is always better, there are lots of little things that I would like to tweak to speed up my workflow by that much....


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## dinerdog (May 22, 2013)

Jay - I'm guessing, but I think I'm "one" of the longest users of Logic on this forum.

I actually still have my floppy disc installs of version 1.6 from Rick S. @ Manny's.


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## stonzthro (May 22, 2013)

A student from South Bend IN talked to someone at Apple a year and a half ago about the demise of Logic... and then proceeds to flame Logic in favor of Cubase

I think I'll wait to see it for myself before I jump ship.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 22, 2013)

dinerdog @ Wed May 22 said:


> Jay - I'm guessing, but I think I'm "one" of the longest users of Logic on this forum.
> 
> I actually still have my floppy disc installs of version 1.6 from Rick S. @ Manny's.



A long term user and you don't use the Environment? Slink off, you scurvy dog


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 22, 2013)

Floydian, you use the Environment every time you use Logic! I don't understand why anyone (not you, other people) would want to remove access to it; you don't have to open an Environment window if you don't want to.

But I personally use the shinola out of it. Rather than using the Arrange window channel strips, I have my entire set-up - all the Instruments, external inputs, etc. - set up there.

And the MIDI processing features can be very useful.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 22, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed May 22 said:


> Floydian, you use the Environment every time you use Logic! I don't understand why anyone (not you, other people) would want to remove access to it; you don't have to open an Environment window if you don't want to.
> 
> But I personally use the shinola out of it. Rather than using the Arrange window channel strips, I have my entire set-up - all the Instruments, external inputs, etc. - set up there.
> 
> And the MIDI processing features can be very useful.



And trust me, if Nick can learn to use it, _anyone_ can learn to use it :twisted:


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## mosso (May 22, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ 22/5/2013 said:


> It isn't true.



Jay, I'm so glad you chipped and that you said what you did. I had hoped that you'd rebut the rumour.

Normally I'd dismiss these kind of things (like the ProTools forum Logic-team-being-fired thing from last year), but this was the first time I'd read something from "a guy who claimed to know the guy", so it went a bit higher up my radar. And when I posted he hadn't even mentioned Cubase.

I don't see the need to remove the environment. It's practically invisible as it is now. If you don't need/want it you don't need to use it, but for those of us who want to it'll be a big loss if it goes.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 22, 2013)

^ What Jay says.

By the way, I heard from one of the nurses who was in the emergency room with Richard Gere that the next version of Cubase is going to have a new interface that's all pink.


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## Greg (May 22, 2013)

I dread the day that I am forced to upgrade from 10.6.8 and logic 9.


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## KEnK (May 22, 2013)

People who don't use the environment aren't "Real Geeks". 8) 

Long time Logic user since 2.5! ^>| 

k


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## mosso (May 22, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ 22/5/2013 said:


> ^ What Jay says.
> 
> By the way, I heard from one of the nurses who was in the emergency room with Richard Gere that the next version of Cubase is going to have a new interface that's all pink.



Surely you mean in the emergency room with Alicia Keys? :wink:


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 22, 2013)

I hadn't heard about her!

But I know he was back there having a mole removed.

(Sorry, very old joke...)


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 22, 2013)

+1 to Greg.


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## floydian05 (May 22, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed May 22 said:


> Floydian, you use the Environment every time you use Logic! I don't understand why anyone (not you, other people) would want to remove access to it; you don't have to open an Environment window if you don't want to.
> 
> But I personally use the shinola out of it. Rather than using the Arrange window channel strips, I have my entire set-up - all the Instruments, external inputs, etc. - set up there.
> 
> And the MIDI processing features can be very useful.




I just said I don't use the feature I never said I wanted it removed, I said to keep as much control as possible, I'd prefer that they keep the feature despite me not accessing it.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 22, 2013)

floydian05 @ Wed May 22 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Wed May 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Floydian, you use the Environment every time you use Logic! I don't understand why anyone (not you, other people) would want to remove access to it; you don't have to open an Environment window if you don't want to.
> ...



Sorry, not good enough, you are an embarrassment to all card carrying Logic users


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## floydian05 (May 22, 2013)

Please don't revoke my Logic card Jay!


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## EastWest Lurker (May 22, 2013)

floydian05 @ Wed May 22 said:


> Please don't revoke my Logic card Jay!



i have to think about it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 22, 2013)

Floydian:



> I don't understand why anyone[bold] (not you, other people)[/bold]
> would want to remove access to it



See? I know you didn't say you wanted it removed. No impugning of manhood.


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## Jack Weaver (May 22, 2013)

I keep following this thread hoping that I might find out something useful. 

You'd think I'd know better by now...

.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 22, 2013)

There's nothing here...keep moving on


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## Tatu (May 22, 2013)

KEnK @ Thu May 23 said:


> People who don't use the environment aren't "Real Geeks". 8)



NOOOOOOO!! :shock: 

I've used logic since 2007 or so.. and have been using the environment hardly at all; just for some occasional arp stuff.

What am I missing?

I do hope, and believe, that one way or the other all the functions will still be there.


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## KEnK (May 23, 2013)

Tatu @ Wed May 22 said:


> KEnK @ Thu May 23 said:
> 
> 
> > People who don't use the environment aren't "Real Geeks". 8)
> ...


Anytime you wish your keyboard or sample libs would do something else,
you might be able to make a patch to do it.

If you use the Transform function to edit your midi data,
then you can create patches to do a lot of things in real time.
Keyboard and velocity splits. Scale velocity, transpose single or multiple notes.
Make a certain octave play a single pitch (to play realistic drum rudiments)
Make a specific note (or higher velocity) raise the reverb send.
Easily reroute your modwheel to any cc#- 
In fact, you can make a keyswitch patch that only redirects the modwheel to other cc#s
You can make key switches to do almost anything. (Actually, you can make anything do almost anything)
ex- hit G6- you switch instruments from that flute to both cellos and trombone,
transposed to a fifth, while simultaneously changing aftertouch to a different cc# for each instrument.

Better sample libs use 2 controllers for vib speed and intensity. 
You could change your PB and Mod wheel to control these functions.

And these are just simple every day uses off the top of my head.

I've made more complex patches-
Like a velocity drum mixer where I could scale velocities by drawing cc#s to make stupid midi drum loops more variable.
I used to use a midi guitar controller-
Made a patch to easily reroute strings to different channels, and transpositions.
I once made a user defined Key Switch patch specifically for Play.

It's endless. >8o 

k


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## gsilbers (May 23, 2013)

i have to agree with apple that most poeple dont use the evironment. 

i think the way apple has been implementing the environment into the front interface is pretty neat. the transformer tools in the list tab is cool. 
the way the audio channels are also accesible on the front window etc. 

complex or midly complex enviroment setups are only for a few folks like the ones that hang out here. but most users dont go there and apple knows that. 

with that said, having the environment still accesible for that minoorty is a big plus. imo it bring logic to a higher level than other DAWs. 
i just think the eviroment needs to be retooled so its easier for users to have more creative setups.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 23, 2013)

gsilbers @ Thu May 23 said:


> i have to agree with apple that most poeple dont use the evironment.
> 
> i think the way apple has been implementing the environment into the front interface is pretty neat. the transformer tools in the list tab is cool.
> the way the audio channels are also accesible on the front window etc.
> ...



That's the point. You used to HAVE to go into it for basic things, which intimidated newbies. Now you do not, but you still CAN.

IMHO, the best software allows you to work simply or in a more complex fashion, and that is the genius of Logic.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 23, 2013)

gsilbers, what would you do? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm curious.

One thing I'd like is for the instruction manual to explain those crossed lines in the Transformer object.  I still haven't figured out WTF they do.


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## KEnK (May 23, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu May 23 said:


> One thing I'd like is for the instruction manual to explain those crossed lines in the Transformer object.  I still haven't figured out WTF they do.



Jay-

You're a certified Logic Master.
That's your cue!

As much as an Enviro Geek as I am, I still don't know what to expect from
crossing those lines. 

I'd think the upper variable will act on the lower one, depending on the selected path.
But it scares me. :mrgreen: 

k


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## EastWest Lurker (May 23, 2013)

KEnK @ Thu May 23 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Thu May 23 said:
> 
> 
> > One thing I'd like is for the instruction manual to explain those crossed lines in the Transformer object.  I still haven't figured out WTF they do.
> ...



Rather than re-invent the wheel:
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/pro ... er-object/

Check out "Routing".


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## robh (May 23, 2013)

If it weren't for the environment, I'd be cursing PLAY more for being so inflexible in CC choices. Because of the environment, I only grumble a little tiny bit. 

Rob


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## KEnK (May 23, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu May 23 said:


> Rather than re-invent the wheel:
> http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/pro ... er-object/
> 
> Check out "Routing".



Mystery solved!

k


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## synthetic (May 23, 2013)

The Logic coders must be union or something. 

"e... 
m... 
colon... 
...
bracket... 
... 
... 
I'm going on break."


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 23, 2013)

Or drunk.

And now I'm going to out Jay: he had no more idea what in freaking hell those lines meant than I did when the two of us were struggling with an issue a few months ago. 

However, he did manage to solve the problem we were dealing with, so I'm not demeaning his superior Logic skills. The point is that a monkey could have come up with a more sensible interface for that Transformer!


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## EastWest Lurker (May 23, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu May 23 said:


> Or drunk.
> 
> And now I'm going to out Jay: he had no more idea what in freaking hell those lines meant than I did when the two of us were struggling with an issue a few months ago.
> 
> However, he did manage to solve the problem we were dealing with, so I'm not demeaning his superior Logic skills. The point is that a monkey could have come up with a more sensible interface for that Transformer!



it's a deep app for sure. I just got this response from a guy who isa serious Logic power user on an article I wrote for MacPro Video's Hub:


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## KEnK (May 23, 2013)

Is that the same Edgar Rothermich who wrote "The Environment Tutorial"
(or something like that) back in the day?

He is one serious Logic Guru!

k


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## chimuelo (May 23, 2013)

Obviously, which means Jay is the man.
You should have done that online thing chief.
Modular Synth School I took morphed into an Israeli Chef/Recipe Class.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 23, 2013)

KEnK @ Thu May 23 said:


> Is that the same Edgar Rothermich who wrote "The Environment Tutorial"
> (or something like that) back in the day?
> 
> He is one serious Logic Guru!
> ...



He is indeed.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 23, 2013)

Len Sasso wrote a book about the Logic Environment a long time ago. He's great, the book was really great...and I have it somewhere but who knows where.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 23, 2013)

Jay, do you mean option/click to move the object to another layer? Or is it something *even I* don't know?


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## stevenson-again (May 24, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu May 23 said:


> gsilbers, what would you do? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm curious.
> 
> One thing I'd like is for the instruction manual to explain those crossed lines in the Transformer object.  I still haven't figured out WTF they do.



Actually there is a good practical use for those lines if you want to turn program changes into key switches. I use program changes all the time but how do you use them in vienna instruments? Easy - use a transformer to convert the patch number to a note, but because the note is set in the first data field, and the program change patch number is in the second, you have to make the data cross by clicking on the lines.

You also have to set a non-zero value for the velocity otherwise it doh'nt werk.

They say picture is worth a thousand words here is the set-up, so check out the piccy. I use a map to map program 0 to note 24 which is C-2 (I think). Actually, because vienna use a different note convention than logic, i always find it a fiddle initially, but I get there in the end. You can see the data flowing from top to bottom, from the second data field to the first.


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## stevenson-again (May 24, 2013)

Here is a top tip for all you Logic environmentalists:

If you place these transformers in between your arrange track and the software instrument or midi port, you can automate *relative* velocities.

What that means is, suppose you have a nice groove on a deeply sampled instrument - say epic toms or something like that. You want to preserve the feel, the accents etc, but you want the pattern to crescendo, but obviously using cc7 is just going to make the soft samples louder, not use the higher velocity samples as would happen with a real player hitting the drum harder through the crescendo.

Well using these transformer objects, instead of automating cc7 you automate a cc of your choice in the transformer, and it will add the value of the second data field (0-127) to the velocity, meaning that it will increase the velocity gradually by adding to your existing velocities.

So typically, you might have 2 tracks pointing to the same instrument, you could loop the pattern, and then on the second track do a long region and automate a ramp up and the notes in the loop will increase in velocity giving you a true crescendo. Cool huh?

Here are the settings for the two transformer objects. They need to be in series, with the control to meta conversion transformer first. Check it out.


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## Tatu (May 24, 2013)

KEnK @ Thu May 23 said:


> Anytime you wish your keyboard or sample libs would do something else,
> you might be able to make a patch to do it.
> 
> If you use the Transform function to edit your midi data,
> ...



That's a lot stuff. Nothing else to say >8o

Hmmm.. modwheel to any other CC. Does it go like this:
I have an object in environment that reacts to modwheel (a fader controlled by CC#1), which I can then route to another object, in which I can simply click the appropriate number (CC#) to which I wish to temporarily route it to record the data on any track? So, I'm not recording CC#1, but say, CC#2 instead?


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## stevenson-again (May 24, 2013)

Yeeaa.....

Not 100% sure what you are trying to do but you have the gist of it. The important thing is to understand the signal flow. If you have a look at clicks and ports, you will see the sum object outputing (via a keyboard for testing) to your sequencer. If you wanted to record in real time cc1 by converting it with a transformer you would put in the path to the sequencer.

If you wanted to do it on a per instrument basis, you would need to put a midi instrument on the arrange. In the environment that instrument would be patched into a transformer which would then be patched into your actual instrument, say an exs or whatever. So then signal passes from the arrange, through the transformer and onto the instrument that produces the noise.


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## KEnK (May 24, 2013)

Tatu @ Fri May 24 said:


> That's a lot stuff. Nothing else to say >8o
> 
> Hmmm.. modwheel to any other CC. Does it go like this:
> I have an object in environment that reacts to modwheel (a fader controlled by CC#1), which I can then route to another object, in which I can simply click the appropriate number (CC#) to which I wish to temporarily route it to record the data on any track? So, I'm not recording CC#1, but say, CC#2 instead?



As Stevenson said,
When you want to "record" an environment process,
you need to hook your patch into the "to seq" object.
Usually this lives on the "Click and Ports" layer in the Env.

Here's a pic to help explain-
I opened a fresh template-the seq object is labeled "to recording and thru"
This is a simple patch that shows what you do.
I often want to reassign and record midi data from my controllers.
I cable these patches between the "keyboard object" and "seq object".

This patch changes cc#2 to cc#6.
When you record in arrange to any midi inst, cc#6 will be recorded. 

btw- I have no idea why my phys input is showing 4 game controllers.
I have zero. 
k


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## Diffusor (May 24, 2013)

I think 99% of Logic users don't actually use the Environment but most say they do because it makes them looks smart and techy to use the environment.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 24, 2013)

100% of Logic users use the Environment.


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## jleckie (May 24, 2013)

Diffusor @ Fri May 24 said:


> I think 99% of Logic users don't actually use the Environment but most say they do because it makes them looks smart and techy to use the environment.



lol. that made my day. ~o)


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## KEnK (May 24, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri May 24 said:


> 100% of Logic users use the Environment.


Nick- I know you mean the env is part of of Logic's signal path,
whether you ever look at it or not. (Meaning the program can't work w/o it).

But I think diffusor's just talking about the purposeful structuring of patches.

Just saying batting semantics back and forth can really put the dampers on a productive discussion.

k


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 24, 2013)

Not as much as telling me to shut up does.


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 24, 2013)

And by the way the point I'm making is that the Environment isn't some nerdy thing to show off with at cocktail parties, it's the heart and soul of the program. You don't have to get into object-based programming to make good use of it.


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## KEnK (May 24, 2013)

Yes, we git that Nick.

And btw- I don't believe telling you to "shut up" would be effective. :wink: 

Semantic banter over-
please resume w/ your normally scheduled program. :roll: 

k


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## drasticmeasures (May 24, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri May 24 said:


> And by the way the point I'm making is that the Environment isn't some nerdy thing to show off with at cocktail parties, it's the heart and soul of the program. You don't have to get into object-based programming to make good use of it.



What Nick said.


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## Diffusor (May 24, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri May 24 said:


> And by the way the point I'm making is that the Environment isn't some nerdy thing to show off with at cocktail parties, it's the heart and soul of the program. You don't have to get into object-based programming to make good use of it.



Yes of course. What I meant is most people don't get under the hood and do custom shit in the Environment. †hey just fire up Logic and get to work.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 24, 2013)

Diffusor @ Fri May 24 said:


> †hey just fire up Logic and get to work.



Yes, but inefficiently because they have not really taken the time to understand what Logic is doing.


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## stevenson-again (May 25, 2013)

What nick and jay said.

The reason you get "techy" is so that you can do things more efficiently. So what happens if you are like me and decide you want to change your articulations with program change, instead of having to remember each and every permutation for key switches, which in any case can't be translated from one instrument to another? What if your favourite flute is the Vienna instruments flute without the ability to switch via program changes? Likewise if you happen to be using Hollywood strings or something?

That's a great example of when you want to turn one midi message into another type, and the environment can help you do that. So the. When you are working you aren't suffering stupid hacks and inconsistent programming to get from a to b, you set something up in the environment that does everything for you and you can then program every instrument the same way. Very handy for copy and pasting between parts....you don't have to reprogram...just copy paste. That leaves you more time to make your programming better or try out different ideas.

And....it's no harder to set up than wiring up your studio or your dvd and tv. Same principles....just follow the signal flow.


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## Diffusor (May 25, 2013)

stevenson-again @ Sat May 25 said:


> What nick and jay said.
> 
> The reason you get "techy" is so that you can do things more efficiently. So what happens if you are like me and decide you want to change your articulations with program change, instead of having to remember each and every permutation for key switches, which in any case can't be translated from one instrument to another? What if your favourite flute is the Vienna instruments flute without the ability to switch via program changes? Likewise if you happen to be using Hollywood strings or something?
> 
> ...



Yes indeed. I am not denying there are certain users who benefit greatly from it.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 25, 2013)

What we are trying to tell you Diffusor, is that ALL Logic users would benefit from knowing how to do at least rudimentary things in there.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 25, 2013)

Oops double post.


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## munician (May 25, 2013)

Hi everyone,
since this thread is kind of turning into an Environment-how-to I have a problem for you power users...

First of all, I love the environment! It can get confusing in a complex set up, but you can do amazing things even at a very easy level,

but here I'm stumped:

since I use a Breath Controller for expression, it happens every once in a while that it gives out controller data by itself - and all of a sudden, the instruments volume that I'm playing goes to zero.

Since I don't want to pick up the BC everytime to reset the volume/expression, I want to assign a Ctrl11 at 127 to the most unused key of my keyboard, the C7 (yeah, I know, but I already lost my hearing up there...).

So I set up a transformer, and it works, but only as long as I press C7, i.e. on the note-on! When I release it, Ctrl11 goes back to zero, and again, no sound - a fun thing for those stutter efx, but not what I'm looking for...
I figure I'd also have to assign a 127-message to the C7 note-off, but how do I do this? The status column of the transformer only gives you the note-on.

A clue, anybody?


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## Diffusor (May 25, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat May 25 said:


> What we are trying to tell you Diffusor, is that ALL Logic users would benefit from knowing how to do at least rudimentary things in there.



That goes without saying, just like Cubase/Nuendo users would benefit from the Input Transfer and the Logical Editor/Project Logical Editors but the large majority of users don't go that deep.


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## KEnK (May 25, 2013)

munician @ Sat May 25 said:


> ...assign a 127-message to the C7 note-off, but how do I do this? The status column of the transformer only gives you the note-on.
> 
> A clue, anybody?


Logic "interprets" note off messages as Vel 0
Use velocity=zero when you want to do something w/ note offs- 

It ends up being a very important little variable when you start to make patches.

In this case, you want to filter vel 0
Don't know what your patch looks like,
but maybe set the condition to a note whose velocity is unequal to zero.
Then change note to cc.

There's a few ways to do this.

k


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## EastWest Lurker (May 25, 2013)

BTW, a perfect example:

With a lot of strings software instruments, cc11 generates volume and and cc1 sends vibrato. Well most players, when they play emotionally, when they get louder the vibrato gets heavier.

So setting up a Transformer so that when I blow into the TEC Breath Controller as I get louder the vibrato gets heavier, is just what I want.

BTW, I am not the ultimate Environment geek but in between guys like my friend Peter Schwartz and guys who don't manipulate the Environment at all is a wide swath. I fall roughly in the middle.


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## munician (May 26, 2013)

KEnK @ Sat May 25 said:


> munician @ Sat May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > ...assign a 127-message to the C7 note-off, but how do I do this? The status column of the transformer only gives you the note-on.
> ...



Thanks, KEnK!

In my C7-to-Ctrl11-at-127-condition I simply excluded Velocity 0, et voilá!
Great Advice!


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## KEnK (May 26, 2013)

Glad it worked for you.

Whenever you change note data to anything else 
you usually need to use (filter out) vel=0

Your patch is a perfect example of what I said to Tatu in an earlier post.
_Anytime you wish your keyboard or sample libs would do something else,
you might be able to make a patch to do it. _

In this case, it's a dodgy breath controller whose behavior you've improved a bit.

btw- I use a really old Alesis Quadrasynth as my keyboard.
It spits out random midi data all the time.
So I've rigged an environment patch to "fix it".

k


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## Raptor4 (May 27, 2013)

Hi all,
It is a nice topic which is related to the Logic main power - the Environment !
As was mentioned above, it is the main Logic engine where you can free up your own creativity and create full complex Midi Tools or Midi + Audio gears which are equivalent of today Kontakt KSP or other environments etc. 
As an example I have spent more than 15 years in the Pro Logic Environment researches, creating hundreds of full Complex Midi Tools published in the example links below:
http://www.audiogrocery.com/logic_sc.htm
http://www.audiogrocery.com/rmx-pctrl.htm
http://www.logic-users-group.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27200&postcount=17 (http://www.logic-users-group.com/forums ... stcount=17)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/77261-Omnisphere-would-love-to-see-a-simple-update-for-latch-mode/page2 (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/sho ... mode/page2)
http://www.logic-users-group.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32010&postcount=9 (http://www.logic-users-group.com/forums ... ostcount=9)

Lately, I moved to other Instrument design developments and scripting. As a whole Logic Enviro is the Best !
A.G
_________________________
www.audiogrocery.com
Logic Pro Environment Development & Kontakt KSP scripting


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## EastWest Lurker (May 27, 2013)

Raptor4 @ Mon May 27 said:


> Hi all,
> It is a nice topic which is related to the Logic main power - the Environment !
> As was mentioned above, it is the main Logic engine where you can free up your own creativity and create full complex Midi Tools or Midi + Audio gears which are equivalent of today Kontakt KSP or other environments etc.
> As an example I have spent more than 15 years in the Pro Logic Environment researches, creating hundreds of full Complex Midi Tools published in the example links below:
> ...



i have encountered this fellow on a couple of other forums. He is a _true_ Environment guru.


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## munician (May 28, 2013)

Remember that one huge Logic Demo song that came with an update - must have been in the 90`s, version 4 or something like that - that was built on one single eighth note in the Arrange window?
All the rest was done in the environment with arpeggiators, channel splitters, delays, transformers, etc. It looked incredible!

Probably I still have it on some floppy disk that I can't read anymore...

Not really useful in your day's work - but it really did show the power of the environment.

Since you don't have to use it when you don't want to, why dumb the software down for those who do?


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## Raptor4 (May 28, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Mon May 27 said:


> i have encountered this fellow on a couple of other forums. He is a _true_ Environment guru.


Hi Jay,
I think we know each other from the former times in Sonikmatter Logic forum or even before - the Dave Bellingham's (Oscwilde) one in the 90's I guess. 
Regarding my Logic Environment developments... As I mentioned before I spent more than 15 years in Enviro researches feeding the idea of creating a powerful *"Logic Advanced Midi Tools"* environment kit or (bundles). Currently I have developed at least 20-30 full complex smart midi plugins which are midi controllable supporting presets etc. I think I could pack a bundle of say 10 essential tools and release them for FREE.
The problem is I do not have any time for making the operation Pro Videos - most of the tools are very specific and require detail Video demonstration. Or I can try to find some time to make quick non-official video tutors and find someone to make the official version - probably you ? :roll: 
Right now I'm away of my place but when come to it I'll post some images or short non-voice video demos here.

Regards
________________________
www.audiogrocery.com
Logic Pro Environment Development & Kontakt KSP scripting


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