# Changing CHH keyswitches



## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2010)

It all depends on the script. If it's locked, there's nothing much there to help you.

Dunno if they did the keyswitching using Kontakt's native keyswitching implementation (Group Start Options), or via scripting. Doing it via scripting is much more flexible since you can set the keyswitches on the fly. But since I don't have CHH I cannot confirm that for you.


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 20, 2010)

I've had a look at group start options, and there doesn't seem anything obvious to do with keyswitching... my guess is that it's scripted.

I've been wondering about a few slightly out-of-the-box solutions. Could Orange Tree's Mind Control help, I wonder? Or is there a way in Sonar to map certain keys to others (both live and recorded midi?) Will do some more investigating...


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## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2010)

Mind Control could quite possibly help, but only if CHH has NKIs which don't include multiple articulations keyswitched by themselves, that is, if you have a NKI with sustained, then sfz, then staccato, etc. In that case, Mind Control could be your best friend!


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 20, 2010)

EvilDragon @ Mon Sep 20 said:


> Mind Control could quite possibly help, but only if CHH has NKIs which don't include multiple articulations keyswitched by themselves, that is, if you have a NKI with sustained, then sfz, then staccato, etc. In that case, Mind Control could be your best friend!



Ah... probably not then! The NKIs I want to use are keyswitched - I think there are sus-only ones, but that's no so useful. I've sent Greg an email... perhaps this could be a future Mind Control enhancement? Perhaps my request isn't so uncommon... basically mapping keyswitches for library consistency, given that so often keyswitches are locked, this could be very handy for a lot of people.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2010)

I'm not sure how MC would be able to influence this.

But perhaps you could use a multiscript (you're using K4, right?) to swap one key with another. I think it's Factory->Performance->Change Keys script.


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 20, 2010)

EvilDragon @ Mon Sep 20 said:


> I'm not sure how MC would be able to influence this.
> 
> But perhaps you could use a multiscript (you're using K4, right?) to swap one key with another. I think it's Factory->Performance->Change Keys script.



Oooh that sounds interesting. Not really up on Kontakt scripting - only dipped my toe in a year ago. How do you run additional scripts when there's already a locked one? (any links appreciated!)


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## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2010)

If you're using Kontakt 4, you need to use a Multiscript, not a regular instrument script. Press the "scroll" button next to 1-16, 17-32 etc. buttons, and then find the Change Keys script and load it.

This one will influence ALL channels, though. (I think.)

If you're not using K4, this will be of no help for you.

Also, are ALL script slots taken with locked scripts for CHH NKIs?


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## Ben H (Sep 20, 2010)

EDIT


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## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2010)

I think noiseboyuk would like to keep it all inside Kontakt, if at all possible.


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## Ben H (Sep 20, 2010)

EDIT


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## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2010)

I mean, it's probably another viable solution, but intermediary in a way that you need other software outside of Kontakt.

Now, if CHH scripts weren't locked, they would probably be editable to the behavior OP wants. But that's not the case. Still, it's not an impossible to resolve case.


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 20, 2010)

Ah ha! Change Keys, that's it! As you say, it seems to affect everything in an instance, which means loading a dedicated Kontakt for CHH - not ideal, but far from a disaster. Would this info get saved in a multi, I wonder? Alternatively, is it possible to load this script in the instrument itself? I think only the first and last slots in CHH that have scripts associated.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2010)

Multiscripts are not loadable in the instrument itself. However, if you load a multiscript and save a multi, this does get saved within.

I think there IS, however, an instrument version of the script. But you would have to put that script in a slot BEFORE the CHH script. And if you have first slot already taken, then there's nothing you can do about it, can't move it, only erase the script, but then you get everything messed up pretty much.


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 20, 2010)

EvilDragon @ Mon Sep 20 said:


> Multiscripts are not loadable in the instrument itself. However, if you load a multiscript and save a multi, this does get saved within.
> 
> I think there IS, however, an instrument version of the script. But you would have to put that script in a slot BEFORE the CHH script. And if you have first slot already taken, then there's nothing you can do about it, can't move it, only erase the script, but then you get everything messed up pretty much.



Gotya - and yes, it is the first script slot, so in the absence of anything super-clever from Orange Tree, I think just saving a multi of 1 is the answer here. Thanks a million for your help!


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## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2010)

Depends on how effin' tired they are!


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## gregjazz (Sep 20, 2010)

EvilDragon @ Mon Sep 20 said:


> Now, if CHH scripts weren't locked, they would probably be editable to the behavior OP wants. But that's not the case. Still, it's not an impossible to resolve case.



Does anybody know, is it a matter of the CHH library being locked or encrypted, or is it just that the scripts have passwords on them?


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 20, 2010)

gregjazz @ Mon Sep 20 said:


> EvilDragon @ Mon Sep 20 said:
> 
> 
> > Now, if CHH scripts weren't locked, they would probably be editable to the behavior OP wants. But that's not the case. Still, it's not an impossible to resolve case.
> ...



The files themselves are nkx. I can click around the group editor, but there doesn't appear to be much going on there (no group start options). The script is password protected.

I've just been having a play around with Kontakt's note transform script... I think maybe I'm on to a loser here! I forgot just how different the two instruments are not just in terms of what articulations are covered, but (and this is the killer) how they use articulations. For example, BBB has you hold down a keyswitch for a staccato - release and it's back to sustain. CHH has a latched keyswitch, or an alternate short articulation where each time you hit the keyswitch (not the key itself) it triggers. Neither are the same as BBB's method (have to say I really like how BBB is laid out).

In truth is probably too tall an order to try to make these match - could be a whole new product to achieve it I think, Greg! Right now I can do a fall on both, but I think that might be about it....

Thanks again everyone for trying!


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## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2010)

Isn't there an option in BBB to turn keyswitch behavior from dynamic to latched? :(


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## chimuelo (Sep 20, 2010)

Do you have Bidule or Forte to help host or route any instrumetns..?
If you do I believe you can use their KeySwitch module to control note on/off assignments.
I use a hardware MIDI Solutions F8 that has 8 x 1/4" pedal outputs to use with 4 x Expression Pedals, or footswitches,etc.
I then can assign various MIDI Channels to CHH 2 so I can use a footswitch for a note on/off keyswitch. I only use the shakes and falls of Screaming Trumpet to layer with CHH 2 but I get to use both hands when I play that way.
Using one hand at the gigs I do isn't an option as I still must comp or solo with the hand that isn't doing the section work.
But this is a great way to have big Fat horn sections using one and two fingers.
I feel no guilt what so ever..............

Check out Bidules' free time based demo and see if it will help you.
But I can guarantee that the F8 is an all in one MIDI dream come true.
SysEx on the fly, programmable software tools to implement in the hardware.
I cant do a gig without it.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodf8.htm


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 20, 2010)

Thanks again to you both! I don't use bidule or forte - VE Pro and jBridge are my intermediaries right now. And sadly no option to change in BBB, Evil - not that I'd want that, it's their implementation I think is better.

It's no real biggie this though - it would be nice to do it, but hardly the end of the world!


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## EvilDragon (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey, check this out: http://cinesamples.com/2010/09/cinemap- ... ie-for-k4/


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## noiseboyuk (Sep 21, 2010)

I just had a look - it's a great looking freebie (and I think this thread got a namecheck in the video!) But sadly I don't think it really helps this case. It looks perfect for wholesale moving areas of the keyboard, but this situation is quite different. Change Keys actually suits this application better because I want to change odd notes... but even it only gets half way there. I'd need to be able to say "when I hold down D#0, I want to trigger an E0 every time a note is played, then revert back to C0 on release". Which I guess is a custom script.

There might be a new product that could be developed that is useful to people other than me, I'm not sure! To simply define in-and-out keyswitches and introduce logical operators. But I don't think anything currently does anything like this (for an existing, script-locked library).

CineMap looks like a very useful tool though, and as a freebie, how can one complain?!


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