# Emagic Unitor 8/AMT8 with Catalina?



## whinecellar (Aug 23, 2020)

Hey guys,

I have avoided Catalina so far because of a handful of legacy apps, plug-ins, and hardware - but I know at some point I’m going to have to make the move. 

One of the biggest things holding me back is that I have several Emagic Unitor 8mkII and AMT8 MIDI interfaces networked around my studio to form one big interface for all my hardware synths and other MIDI gear. 

Those interfaces have always been a brilliant bit of tech, and regardless of their age, I don’t want to have to spend $$$$ replacing them just because of an OS change. So, can anyone confirm that they are still working in Catalina? I would assume not since they’ve used a driver that hasn’t been updated since 2010? I’ve seen a few reports elsewhere that they might still work somehow, but I find that hard to believe. Anyone still using them post-Catalina?

Thanks!


----------



## chillbot (Aug 23, 2020)

Sorry this will not be helpful to you as I know squat about macs.

Just chiming in to say how much I miss those boxes. At one point I think I had 10 of them all running together! 6 chained together on my main DAW and 4 more on 4 separate slaves. Clearly that was pre midi-over-lan and VEPro days.

Those were the most solid boxes I've had experience with, I can see why you are reluctance to lose them. I'm very impressed (and a bit jealous) you are still using them. For me (Windows) it was a 64-bit thing, the last OS they really worked with was XP, without using complex workarounds. I think they would work with Win7 in 32-bit mode, maybe.

I was forced into the MOTU Midi Express 128s because they were all I could find similar at the time. If you have to switch I DO NOT recommend those, I had a terrible time with them. Nothing against MOTU, I love their audio interfaces.

@Nick Batzdorf recommended the iConnectivity mio10 to me... these are very solid, if you wind up being forced to switch at some point I would also recommend these.


----------



## whinecellar (Aug 23, 2020)

Thanks @chillbot. Yeah, they have been rock solid for 20 years, and I loathe the thought of having to replace them for no good reason. And I’m with you on MOTU stuff - I’ve never had a piece of their gear that didn’t die on me at some point - or that wasn’t flaky and unreliable. 

I too have heard great things about the iConnectivity stuff - quite innovative on paper. Class compliant too, so no drivers needed. Having to buy four of them to replace my Emagics isn’t appealing though!


----------



## chillbot (Aug 23, 2020)

Not sure what you are using the interfaces for but have you looked into MIDI-Over-LAN? It was a lifesaver for me. Of course I still have two of the mio10s because of 16 external synths that need MIDI, nothing can be done about that. Just curious because 4 is a lot unless you have twice as many synths as me!


----------



## whinecellar (Aug 23, 2020)

Almost all hardware synths or MIDI devices. I can probably trim back to three 8-port interfaces since most modern synths have USB, but then you get into USB hub hassles… I find old school MIDI more reliable. Plus I would love to be able to keep compatibility with so many previous projects that address separate MIDI ports.


----------



## chillbot (Aug 23, 2020)

whinecellar said:


> Almost all hardware synths or MIDI devices. I can probably trim back to three 8-port interfaces since most modern synths have USB, but then you get into USB hub hassles… I find old school MIDI more reliable. Plus I would love to be able to keep compatibility with so many previous projects that address separate MIDI ports.


No that's great. I definitely prefer midi to usb for all things that actually need midi and it's not close. I was just curious because it's rare to come across someone who needs as many or more actual midi ports as myself!

I hope you are able to keep the emagic ones, maybe someone will chime in. They must still be used here and there as I noticed they still sell on ebay. Speaking of, if you have to get out you should put them on ebay ASAP as you might still be able to get $75 each which would offset $300 towards new ones...


----------



## chillbot (Aug 23, 2020)

Oh my last thought... I was able to go from 3 x MOTU 128s down to 2 of the mio10s because of the 2 extra midi ports on them. I had to do some reworking and juggling, 16 ports wouldn't have been enough but I was able to make 20 ports work. Oh geez and now I see they have the mioXL which has 12 midi outs...


----------



## Dewdman42 (Aug 23, 2020)

I would guess that hte drivers for the Emagic devices are 32bit, which will not work on Catalina. You can run the go64 utiltity which should find all the 32bit stuff on your system that you need to be concerned about replacement and I guess it should find the Emagic driver, but I think its highly likely already, that they are 32bit drivers and this is end of life for them if you want to go to Catalina.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Aug 23, 2020)

ps - I think the MOTU devices are just as good, you can find older Motu USB Midi Timepieces used for not bad prices and MOTU is still unofficially supporting them. I have a confirmed message from them that their latest midi drivers work on Catalina with those older interfaces...I can't test to confirm though.

_CORRECTION: MOTU has since told me they are seeing stability problems with the MTPAV on Catalina and it may not ever be sorted out. FYI_

You can also link two of them together into one virtual 16 port midi interface that is only using one USB port. ...

Why do you need to go to Catalina?


----------



## Dewdman42 (Aug 23, 2020)

damn that MioXL looks pretty sweet too, that might be the future and i might even look at that to reduce midi cable runs in my studio. But make sure to google for reviews from users, I have heard some interesting stories from people having some issues with iConnectivity stuff, notwithstanding the overwhelmingly cool amount of new tech in them.


----------



## whinecellar (Aug 23, 2020)

@Dewdman42 thankfully I don’t have to go to Catalina yet, and I’m going to hold out as long as possible. But I’ve been developing some software that’s going to force my hand at some point, if only to make sure I can support customers. I’m going to try and build a Catalina support rig though so I don’t have to touch my personal system.

Anyway, I saw a thread elsewhere that showed a few people using these interfaces in Catalina - they claim the driver isn’t necessary. Not sure how that would be the case, but it will be worth looking into!


----------



## tmhuud (Aug 23, 2020)

Doh! I wished I’d known your still using yours Jim, I would have given you the ones I had here instead of selling them. Those are great boxes. I hope you can get more use of yours. I’ll ask around and see what I find out.


----------



## dgburns (Aug 23, 2020)

Motu Midi Express xt is working under latest driver with Catalina. I have two of them, but they don’t work with the sonnet usb pcie card, they must be plugged into the mac’s usb ports. No idea about the Unitor.


----------



## whinecellar (Aug 23, 2020)

tmhuud said:


> Doh! I wished I’d known your still using yours Jim, I would have given you the ones I had here instead of selling them. Those are great boxes. I hope you can get more use of yours. I’ll ask around and see what I find out.



No worries Terry, thanks! I’ve got 5 total between 2 rooms and they still work flawlessly - I’m just hoping they’ll keep working if and when I have to move past Mojave. Although I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

I know someone wrote an updated control panel for them since Apple dropped support years ago… I’m hoping someone writes a new 64-bit driver if it’s needed!


----------



## JJP (Aug 23, 2020)

I am using a single Unitor8 as my primary midi interface on Catalina. Only issue I've found is that I sometimes need to power cycle it if my computer goes into deep sleep.


----------



## Hayden (Aug 23, 2020)

One reason that Apple might have an interest in supporting Emagic Unitor 8mkII and AMT8 drivers, is the fact that one of Logic’s original programmers — Dr. Gerhard Lengeling, is a longtime Apple employee, now a Senior Director.

Gerhard holds many patents with Apple, and is still connected with the Logic Pro team.





Gerhard Lengeling Inventions, Patents and Patent Applications - Justia Patents Search


USPTO patent applications submitted by and patents granted to Gerhard Lengeling




patents.justia.com


----------



## whinecellar (Aug 24, 2020)

MC JJFresh said:


> I am using a single Unitor8 as my primary midi interface on Catalina. Only issue I've found is that I sometimes need to power cycle it if my computer goes into deep sleep.



Good to hear. I’m assuming you don’t need any driver since the old one is 32 bit and wouldn’t work anyway? I’m guessing they rolled in direct support at the OS level...


----------



## Kent (Aug 24, 2020)

I can vouch for the mio10s working well, and stacking well.

Many of the issues you might see stemmed from the older iConnectivity firmware/connection application, which was kind of a pain to use. _Auracle_, the newer app, works wonderfully.

Now, is it _as_ wonderful as a Unitor in its heyday? I'm not sure. But you can definitely do all sorts of rock-solid MIDI routing with one or more mio10s.


----------



## whinecellar (Aug 24, 2020)

kmaster said:


> I can vouch for the mio10s working well, and stacking well.
> 
> Many of the issues you might see stemmed from the older iConnectivity firmware/connection application, which was kind of a pain to use. _Auracle_, the newer app, works wonderfully.
> 
> Now, is it _as_ wonderful as a Unitor in its heyday? I'm not sure. But you can definitely do all sorts of rock-solid MIDI routing with one or more mio10s.



Also good to hear! If I had to make a change, that is definitely the direction I would look - they are doing some really cool stuff that no one else is. I’ve heard mixed reviews on reliability though, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were related to older software...


----------



## Dewdman42 (Aug 24, 2020)

kmaster said:


> I can vouch for the mio10s working well, and stacking well.
> 
> Many of the issues you might see stemmed from the older iConnectivity firmware/connection application, which was kind of a pain to use. _Auracle_, the newer app, works wonderfully.
> 
> Now, is it _as_ wonderful as a Unitor in its heyday? I'm not sure. But you can definitely do all sorts of rock-solid MIDI routing with one or more mio10s.



good to hear. I am wondering if I could eliminate many midi cables in my studio by putting a small connectivity box at each little area of the rooms and connect them with Ethernet?

I also am wondering whether iconmecticity devices use midi timestamping


----------



## JJP (Aug 24, 2020)

whinecellar said:


> Good to hear. I’m assuming you don’t need any driver since the old one is 32 bit and wouldn’t work anyway? I’m guessing they rolled in direct support at the OS level...


I don't recall if I have the driver running, but I know Apple still has it on their website and it is supposed to work.

If you want to get really geeky, somebody made a 64-bit preference pane to tap all the functionality. I have not used it, so I can't comment on it.

Edit: I think I checked out the preference pane several years ago (perhaps on Yosemite?), but didn't have a need for it. Haven't tried it on a later OS.


----------



## whinecellar (Aug 24, 2020)

MC JJFresh said:


> I don't recall if I have the driver running, but I know Apple still has it on their website and it is supposed to work.
> 
> If you want to get really geeky, somebody made a 64-bit preference pane to tap all the functionality. I have not used it, so I can't comment on it.
> 
> Edit: I think I checked out the preference pane several years ago (perhaps on Yosemite?), but didn't have a need for it. Haven't tried it on a later OS.



Yeah, I knew about the 3rd party pref pane, but like you I haven't had a need for it. I know the official Apple driver wouldn't work in Catalina as it's 32-bit, so I'm guessing the interfaces are directly supported somehow. Good to know, whatever the case!


----------



## davidwrightmusic (Oct 3, 2020)

It is really quite confusing! I've been researching this because I have an amt8 and a unitor8 linked together in my set-up. I've been reading how some users are finding the units are working in Catalina, while others not. Don't know about you, but what would be nice is a definitive "Yes" the should work" or "No they wont work" from apple. That said. I guess if they are working for some users, then the omens are good. Just not sure I want to upset a stable, working system. Sorry, I know that not particularly helpful....


----------



## whinecellar (Oct 3, 2020)

davidwrightmusic said:


> It is really quite confusing! I've been researching this because I have an amt8 and a unitor8 linked together in my set-up. I've been reading how some users are finding the units are working in Catalina, while others not. Don't know about you, but what would be nice is a definitive "Yes" the should work" or "No they wont work" from apple. That said. I guess if they are working for some users, then the omens are good. Just not sure I want to upset a stable, working system. Sorry, I know that not particularly helpful....



I asked a few of my buddies on the Logic dev team at Apple, and they tell me it should work fine in Catalina -at least one of them is still using Unitors as well...


----------



## davidwrightmusic (Oct 3, 2020)

Thanks, that's very helpful and helping me lean further towards just updating. Shoulda joined this forum earlier ha ha. Stay safe.


----------



## whinecellar (Oct 3, 2020)

davidwrightmusic said:


> Thanks, that's very helpful and helping me lean further towards just updating. Shoulda joined this forum earlier ha ha. Stay safe.



Sure thing. Personally, I would highly recommend against moving past Mojave 10.14.6 if you don’t absolutely have to - Catalina is still a mess for a lot of people with more advanced systems!


----------



## davidwrightmusic (Oct 3, 2020)

whinecellar said:


> Sure thing. Personally, I would highly recommend against moving past Mojave 10.14.6 if you don’t absolutely have to - Catalina is still a mess for a lot of people with more advanced systems!


Hmmm, well no, I don't have to...I've just always preferred to keep up to date. I do run both a music studio and a music business from my computer, also art and design with Photoshop plus video work...so in this instance it does seem that it could be more 'problematic' to upgrade than in the past. Think I might just leave it for the time being...many thanks.


----------



## MGdepp (Oct 3, 2020)

The Unitor 8 still works well on my Hackintosh running the latest version of Catalina. Just in case people think it doesn’t work any longer!

What some people might have missed: after installing the driver already linked here from the Apple website and doing the restart, you need to go to system settings > security and allow the driver to be installed. Then it works well. Sometimes, the installation needs to be repeated after updates.


----------



## whinecellar (Oct 3, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> The Unitor 8 still works well on my Hackintosh running the latest version of Catalina. Just in case people think it doesn’t work any longer!
> 
> What some people might have missed: after installing the driver already linked here from the Apple website and doing the restart, you need to go to system settings > security and allow the driver to be installed. Then it works well. Sometimes, the installation needs to be repeated after updates.



This is such a head scratcher for me that the driver would be recognized at all in Catalina since it’s an old 32-bit driver. Wish I knew how that worked!


----------



## davidwrightmusic (Oct 3, 2020)

Great, thanks for that. As a fairly experienced long time user, I'm aware that very often, the 'problems' that (can) occur after major systems updates are easily solved (or don't happen at all) if things are done, shall we say, 'properly'. Checking through the myriad of software I use, the vast majority appears to be okay for Catalini. I'm still debating whether to take the plunge, but it is a case of 'when' not if.


----------



## davidwrightmusic (Oct 3, 2020)

whinecellar said:


> This is such a head scratcher for me that the driver would be recognized at all in Catalina since it’s an old 32-bit driver. Wish I knew how that worked!


I was looking earlier at a German music site with long discussions on this topic and they were all of the opinion (and some experiencing) the units NOT being recognised in Catalina. But then I was reading how some couldn't get them working in High Sierra and or Mojave...so...makes me wonder exactly what the issue is...ie not the AMT8/Unitor8. But either way...a headscratcher.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 5, 2020)

Per someone I know who works for Apple, the AMT 8 and Unitor 8 are still working in Catalina.


----------



## JJP (Oct 5, 2020)

As I stated earlier, I use my Unitor8 for MIDI every day with Catalina. No drivers, and it works just like it always has for well over 15 years.


----------



## macmac (Dec 8, 2020)

JJP said:


> As I stated earlier, I use my Unitor8 for MIDI every day with Catalina. No drivers, and it works just like it always has for well over 15 years.


Did you just migrate you system? Keep the driver there? Delete the driver? Did a fresh install of the OS without installing the driver?

I’m still on Mojave, but have noticed since I upgraded Cubase to 11 and Studio One to v5, I started getting periodic MIDI hanged notes. Like, I’ll open a project, and one VI will be non-stop streaming something without even being in transport. It made me wonder if it were related to my AMT8 in any way. Only started with the DAW upgrades, otherwise everything had been flawless. The emagic units really have been great.


----------



## JJP (Dec 9, 2020)

macmac said:


> Did you just migrate you system? Keep the driver there? Delete the driver? Did a fresh install of the OS without installing the driver?



IIRC, I simply migrated my system to a new machine and also later did an OS update. I don't recall downloading anything specific for it. It may have simply worked.


----------

