# Falcon has VST3 Now (see from page 3 on) :-)



## KarlHeinz (Feb 6, 2022)

Could it be that there is really no VST3 version of Falcon 

As I have all the VST2 and VST3 folders included usually in the daw scanning I dont worry much about it, especially as sometimes not both versions are supported. But today I have an app that ONLY supports VST3 (and after Steinberg finally stopped supporting VST2.......) I searched and searched and.......nothing. Could that really be or do I miss something ?


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## dunamisstudio (Feb 6, 2022)

Nope. Here's what they had to say too, I'll save you an email.



> Thanks for reaching out,
> 
> I have been confirmed by our team that we do not have a specific ETA regarding VST3 support on all UVI products at the moment,
> 
> ...


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## Dr.Quest (Feb 6, 2022)

Here is what the support page lists -
*File Sizes* 
Windows installer: 649 MB
Mac DMG: 770 MB
Falcon Factory 2.5: 1.05 GB
*Supported Formats*
Audio Unit, AAX, VST, Standalone

*Supported Operating Systems*
Mac OS X 10.9 Mavericks to macOS 11 Big Sur
Windows 8 to Windows 10 (64-bit)
Important note: Falcon is 64-bit only


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## vitocorleone123 (Feb 6, 2022)

I was just doing my yearly check of UVI workstation updates and to see if there’s a vst3 version. I have only 15 or so vst2 things still installed out of 150 plugins - and UVI is one of them.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 6, 2022)

Thanks for all the replies , so its really true 

Its not the end of the world, so I have to use something like Unify for example as a host for Falcon, but really hard to understand in 2022 for such a big company still no vst3......


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 6, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Thanks for all the replies , so its really true
> 
> Its not the end of the world, so I have to use something like Unify for example as a host for Falcon, but really hard to understand in 2022 for such a big company still no vst3......


And no multicore support! But both multicore and vst3 are supposed to have some downsides, so they may have had their reasons before now.


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## kevinh (Feb 6, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> they may have had their reasons before now


Like Uvi where they avoided VST3 and multi threading due to downsides, I myself have avoided a six pack due to downsides like having to give up Doritos so can understand their reasoning.


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## doctoremmet (Feb 6, 2022)

Every time I start eating Doritos I get thirsty and grab a sixpack


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## kevinh (Feb 6, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Every time I start eating Doritos I get thirsty and grab a sixpack


Hahah…See, can’t fault them


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## chocobitz825 (Feb 6, 2022)

3DC said:


> Yes but there is a two year grace period. Anything can happen in this period including the end of the world or VST3 support for Falcon.


End of the world sounds more likely…


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## EvilDragon (Feb 7, 2022)

KVR Forum: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 2.8 released - rumors, ads, praise, mud wrestling and off-topic inside! - Page 439 - Instruments Forum


KVR Audio Forum - UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 2.8 released - rumors, ads, praise, mud wrestling and off-topic inside! - Page 439 - Instruments Forum




www.kvraudio.com


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 7, 2022)

EvilDragon said:


> KVR Forum: UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 2.8 released - rumors, ads, praise, mud wrestling and off-topic inside! - Page 439 - Instruments Forum
> 
> 
> KVR Audio Forum - UVI Falcon - hybrid instrument - version 2.8 released - rumors, ads, praise, mud wrestling and off-topic inside! - Page 439 - Instruments Forum
> ...


Thanks a lot for the info but maybe my post was a little missleading with the steinberg hint, my actual problem is not Cubase but a generative software that definitely only supports hosting vst3 plugins. As I said, could be solved with something like Unify, but I was just curious. So it seems to be on their devellopment plan at least


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 7, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Thanks a lot for the info but maybe my post was a little missleading with the steinberg hint, my actual problem is not Cubase but a generative software that definitely only supports hosting vst3 plugins. As I said, could be solved with something like Unify, but I was just curious. So it seems to be on their devellopment plan at least



I'm not sure it is on their development plan. I interpreted more as a conditional. If Steinberg go through with the announced restriction to VST3, then UVI products will be available as VST3.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 7, 2022)

Time will tell (maybe.....)


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## Br0Haha (Feb 16, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Could it be that there is really no VST3 version of Falcon
> 
> As I have all the VST2 and VST3 folders included usually in the daw scanning I dont worry much about it, especially as sometimes not both versions are supported. But today I have an app that ONLY supports VST3 (and after Steinberg finally stopped supporting VST2.......) I searched and searched and.......nothing. Could that really be or do I miss something ?


Karl, this certainly isn't the UVI-provided solution you're seeking, but might provide a good work-around.

DDMF's Metaplugin can provide a lot of VST2<->VST3. It can let you set up some pretty wild chains, as well. Cost's $59. Free demo version, so you can check it out before deciding to purchase:
*DDMF's Metaplugin*. 

*DDMF *is the same company that makes Plugindoctor, and a lot of other useful and unique plugins. Their support is very responsive and helpful.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 16, 2022)

Br0Haha said:


> Karl, this certainly isn't the UVI-provided solution you're seeking, but might provide a good work-around.
> 
> DDMF's Metaplugin can provide a lot of VST2<->VST3. It can let you set up some pretty wild chains, as well. Cost's $59. Free demo version, so you can check it out before deciding to purchase:
> *DDMF's Metaplugin*.
> ...


Thanks for the info but till there is a direct vst3 version I am set with Unify .

Its really not that big problem in my workflow as I am usually setting up multis in Unify with different librarys.

And as Unify - apart of having lots of great sounddesign presets, samples, fx and so on - really covers all my needs I am fine for now


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## estevancarlos (Feb 16, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> Nope. Here's what they had to say too, I'll save you an email.



Eeeh


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## estevancarlos (Feb 16, 2022)

And I'm having so much fun with Falcon lately. I hope this doesn't get too complicated.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Feb 16, 2022)

I don't care about VST3 and Falcon, because I'm loading it up in Unify anyway whenever I build a complex patch.

The whole idea of Falcon is that you are supposed to be able to build complex layers of patches. 
Just try it. It will poop out your system resources because it's single-core. 

Falcon is brilliant when you load up a preset and tweak it. But start putting a few of them at the same time... Sorry. Single-core.

I can load up many instances of Falcon in one Unify patch and save it. Finally, it does what it always should have been able to do.


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## KarlHeinz (Feb 16, 2022)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> I don't care about VST3 and Falcon, because I'm loading it up in Unify anyway whenever I build a complex patch.
> 
> The whole idea of Falcon is that you are supposed to be able to build complex layers of patches.
> Just try it. It will poop out your system resources because it's single-core.
> ...


What I said . But you are definitely better in explaining why


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## Lazarus451 (Mar 30, 2022)

Now there is VST3. Noticed some comments about it not working on other daws but in Live it's fine


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## Jaap (Mar 31, 2022)

Falcon 2.5.4 includes now indeed VST3 support and no problems here as well in Nuendo 11

Patch notes:
2.5.4 
------------
- Add VST3 version
- Fix REX support on ARM
- Fix possible stuck note related to pedal handling in some sequencing script
- Some ARM based optimization
- Fix possible crash related to UI
- Fix song position trigger mode in Parametric LFO
- Other minor fixes

Full changelog here:


https://s3.amazonaws.com/uvi/Release_Notes/falcon_changelog.pdf


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## Zanshin (Mar 31, 2022)

That's good news


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 31, 2022)

The update keeps failing for me, as does an iLok update. I wonder if they could be connected/have a similar cause.


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## cedricm (Mar 31, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> Could it be that there is really no VST3 version of Falcon
> 
> As I have all the VST2 and VST3 folders included usually in the daw scanning I dont worry much about it, especially as sometimes not both versions are supported. But today I have an app that ONLY supports VST3 (and after Steinberg finally stopped supporting VST2.......) I searched and searched and.......nothing. Could that really be or do I miss something ?


I asked UVI, they're working on VST3 versions of all their plugins and instruments. Should come in the next months.


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## Br0Haha (Mar 31, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> Gotta give it to UVI, they service updates to falcon really well, and all free so far.


I'll second that, adding: UVI is such an awesome company.


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## Br0Haha (Mar 31, 2022)

Haven't asked any dumb questions yet today. Might as well start:

What's the importance of VST3, vs VST 2 and VST 2.4?
Perhaps "it's got electrolytes!"  kidding


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## Zanshin (Mar 31, 2022)

For one, Steinberg announced they are going to drop support for VST2 in their products at some point.


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## Lazarus451 (Mar 31, 2022)

The only noticeable difference for me is that vst3 folder selection in the daw is automatic. With vst2 you can change it. For this reason there are multiple folders from the same developers with small name variations 

edit. Not uvi though


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 31, 2022)

Br0Haha said:


> Haven't asked any dumb questions yet today. Might as well start:
> 
> What's the importance of VST3, vs VST 2 and VST 2.4?
> Perhaps "it's got electrolytes!"  kidding


The differences fall into two main categories. One, commercial; two, programming.

In category one we have the distinct possibility that changes by Steinberg for their own commercial advantage, given that they, as creators and owners of the code, can make money from licensing new programming to others.

In category two, we have the idea that certain things - routing, or efficiency, or stability, or something, is improved from version to version. Of course, as is the way with innovation, unexpected problems can be introduced too. But trying to improve the programming in practically useful ways is, to me, welcome.

More detailed answers could be found with some time and a search engine, but it might be that just the general picture is all you after. Which is all I'm capable of remembering!!


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## Jaap (Mar 31, 2022)

Saw a posting from a UVI rep on the Falcon Facebook group saying the following:

For anyone who installed 2.5.4 a few days ago and having problems with vst3 not working in Cubase 12, unistall 2.5.4 via the portal and then reinstall it. UVI has addressed this issue and have uploaded a new build of 2.5.4


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## jonathanwright (Apr 1, 2022)

Installed the latest VST3 version yesterday, and since then Cubase 12 (macOS Monterey M1) has been taking a long time to start up - taking ages on the license check. And adding any plugin that uses iLok in a project causes the spinning beachball.

I uninstalled Falcon and everything is working fine again.


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## cedricm (Apr 1, 2022)

Br0Haha said:


> Haven't asked any dumb questions yet today. Might as well start:
> 
> What's the importance of VST3, vs VST 2 and VST 2.4?
> Perhaps "it's got electrolytes!"  kidding


The only importance of VST3 is that it is forced upon us by Steinberg, and, theoretically at least, plugins should be more reliable since one can do less shenanigans. 

Steinberg says MIDI support in VST2 was an accident, VST3 is a pure audio standard and that for MIDI, developers should rely on DAWs and /or the MIDI API of the OS. 

Do you see the issue? 
Steinberg is basically making it impossible to support decades of legacy MIDI that was used, perhaps sometimes creativity, but used all the same, by plugins and virtual instruments.

Imagine if Microsoft was selectively removing/changing core APIs to "clean-up" Windows, making hundreds of thousands of applications developed in the previous decades useless.

Also, since MIDI APIs are different accross different OSes, it could be harder to develop cross-platform plugins and virtual instruments. 

TLDR: I really hope U-He, Bitwig and friends are successful with their new plugin standard (CLAP) and/or that more DAW will support today's open source plugin standard (LV2).


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## Virtuoso (Apr 1, 2022)

Br0Haha said:


> What's the importance of VST3, vs VST 2 and VST 2.4?
> Perhaps "it's got electrolytes!"  kidding


On an Apple Silicon Mac, Cubase 12 will run in either Native M1 mode or Rosetta mode. If you run in Native mode, Cubase (and the upcoming Nuendo 12) will only work with VST3 plugins.


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## dunamisstudio (Apr 1, 2022)

Cubase 12 on Win10, runs no problem for me.


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## zvenx (Apr 3, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> The differences fall into two main categories. One, commercial; two, programming.
> 
> In category one we have the distinct possibility that changes by Steinberg for their own commercial advantage, given that they, as creators and owners of the code, can make money from licensing new programming to others.
> 
> ..........


Ftr Steinberg does not or never has charged licensing fees for the use of vst3 or vst2, and does not charge developers for helping them convert to vst3. Ever...
rsp


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 3, 2022)

zvenx said:


> Ftr Steinberg does not or never has charged licensing fees for the use of vst3 or vst2, and does not charge developers for helping them convert to vst3. Ever...
> rsp


Curious. So is Steinberg making a loss from other developers using their format?

Thank you for the information.


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## zvenx (Apr 3, 2022)

No. I imagine they get some 'credit' in PR or not (in this case ) from it being considered industry standard, but for sure it is not licensing fee. (same with the industry standard ASIO which they also own the IP for but there is no licensing fee).

There licensing agreement is online (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwig8JLwgPj2AhVooXIEHQ3PCFMQFnoECBAQAQ&url=https://developer.steinberg.help/download/attachments/9797944/VST3_License_Agreement.pdf?version=5&modificationDate=1619622295000&api=v2&usg=AOvVaw0VPn3PE0USJ8FsBaqpY7nB)



Welcome.
rsp


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 3, 2022)

zvenx said:


> No. I imagine they get some 'credit' in PR or not (in this case ) from it being considered industry standard, but for sure it is not licensing fee. (same with the industry standard ASIO which they also own the IP for but there is no licensing fee).
> 
> There licensing agreement is online (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwig8JLwgPj2AhVooXIEHQ3PCFMQFnoECBAQAQ&url=https://developer.steinberg.help/download/attachments/9797944/VST3_License_Agreement.pdf?version=5&modificationDate=1619622295000&api=v2&usg=AOvVaw0VPn3PE0USJ8FsBaqpY7nB)
> 
> ...


Thanks. I must have misunderstood or had bad information - likely the former. But I hate to be spreading false information.

I still expect there is some way that they are making money from doing this; even if it is indirect (such as PR). Anyway, I'll be sure to shut up about it now unless and until I've looked into it properly.


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## zvenx (Apr 3, 2022)

On another forum, some people who should have known better helped propagate this falsehood. I beta test for SB and had never ever heard of that before so I checked, it wasn't true, I said this on that other forum and it persisted until, I posted the actual license agreement with the screen shot for all to see. Haven't heard it since.

I think the obvious in how they 'profit' is that is the format used by Cubendo, not AAX, and AU clearly, so the more developers who make vst format plugins the more third party plugins there are for Cubendo making Cubendo possibly more popular and hence more money for SB.


Ftr I don't think they are the only ones doing it. I don't think Avid charges a licensing fee to develop AAX plugins or Apple for AU plugins. It just makes their DAW open for more third party plugins.

my two cents.
rsp


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 3, 2022)

zvenx said:


> On another forum, there were people who should have known better who helped propagate this falsehood. I beta test for SB and had never ever heard of that before so I checked, it wasn't true, I said this on that other forum and it persisted until, I posted the actual license agreement with the screen shot for all to see. Haven't heard it since.
> 
> I think the obvious in how they 'profit' is that is the format used by Cubendo, not AAX, and AU clearly, so the more developers who make vst format plugins the more third party plugins there are for Cubendo making Cubendo possibly more popular and hence more money for SB.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I'll be more careful, and it's good to know.


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## KarlHeinz (Apr 3, 2022)

After a hint from Heisenberg (thanks again for this ) I updated the thread title (totally forgot that it was me starting this ).


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## Br0Haha (Apr 3, 2022)

Great replies here, though I was still head-scratching regarding 'VST 2 vs. 2.4 vs. 3'; so I let my fingers do some walkin' (through the web):

*The Differences Between VST 2 and VST 3*
Summary: VST3 offers developers many potential advantages, but it's up to the developers to decide which to implement. Article includes 10 concise potential advantages.

*VST 2.4 vs. VST 3.0 – Who Cares? You Should.*
This article by Craig Anderton adds a bit to the discussion, while busting a few myths along the way.


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## EvilDragon (Apr 4, 2022)

Neither of those articles mention how horrifically and needlesly complicated and braindead the whole VST3 API is. Which is one of main reasons why so many plugin developers didn't want to implement it for 10 years until Steinberg started throwing those C&Ds around.


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## sostenuto (Apr 7, 2022)

Falcon - UVI _ I know ......... only recently saw Thread discussing Kontakt 6 _ vst2 / vst 3.
Had never, ever, even given a thought. 😵 
So what now ? _ Kontakt 6.7.1 .... back to vst2 (64) ?? 🤕


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## Br0Haha (Apr 9, 2022)

*Using Falcon 2.5.4 in Studio One 5.2.x*

Sent the following to PreSonus support:
There's an odd overlap between the VST2 and VST3 versions.​"This happens when a developer gives both formats the same plugin ID. Studio One can't differentiate.

Uninstall Falcon. Search the computer to make sure the VST2 and VST3 are not on the system. 

Once you are sure all traces of both plugins are removed.......

Reinstall, but only install the VST3, don't install both formats.

Once reinstalled, open Studio One, go to the menu Studio One > View > Plugin manager press the Remove Plug-in Settings button and the Update Plug-ins button list. See if the all scan back in."

Perhaps this will be addressed in a future Falcon release; I forwarded the information to UVI Support.


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## Br0Haha (Apr 9, 2022)

EvilDragon said:


> Neither of those articles mention how horrifically and needlesly complicated and braindead the whole VST3 API is. Which is one of main reasons why so many plugin developers didn't want to implement it for 10 years until Steinberg started throwing those C&Ds around.


Always learn a lot from your posts, EvilDragon. Thanks.

Wasn't aware of those aspects of VST3. 10 years hence, are there upsides to all those VST3 complications? I reckon the capabilities are there; I wonder how many developers are actually making use of them.


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## EvilDragon (Apr 9, 2022)

A lot of the apparent upsides are hobbled by partial (or lack of) support for those new features across various DAWs etc...


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## Br0Haha (Apr 11, 2022)

Br0Haha said:


> *Using Falcon 2.5.4 in Studio One 5.2.x*
> 
> Sent the following to PreSonus support:
> There's an odd overlap between the VST2 and VST3 versions.​"This happens when a developer gives both formats the same plugin ID. Studio One can't differentiate.
> ...


This is still problematic. I've sent emails to UVI and PreSonus support. Hopefully they can work together to sort this out. I reckon S1's approach to Plugin IDs might be different from most other DAWS.

UVI Support advises:
_For your information if you follow these instructions sent by the Presonus support and only keep Falcon VST3 installed on your system, you might encounter issues when opening previous projects in which you have used Falcon VST2._

For now, I've hidden the VST3 version of Falcon, in Studio One 5.x.


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## Br0Haha (Apr 12, 2022)

Br0Haha said:


> This is still problematic. I've sent emails to UVI and PreSonus support. Hopefully they can work together to sort this out. I reckon S1's approach to Plugin IDs might be different from most other DAWS.
> 
> UVI Support advises:
> _For your information if you follow these instructions sent by the Presonus support and only keep Falcon VST3 installed on your system, you might encounter issues when opening previous projects in which you have used Falcon VST2._
> ...


*This now seems to be sorted out, with version 2.5.5 of Falcon in Studio One 5.5.2.x*

VST 2 and VST 3 versions of Falcon can now be used simultaneously, in Studio One 5.5.2.x, without S1 confusing the two. 

Glad to be a conduit, between PreSonus and UVI dev. teams, in this instance, apparently. 
*Thanks for fast and helpful responses from PreSonus, and lightning fast action from the UVI development team!*


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## AceAudioHQ (Apr 15, 2022)

VST3 crashes straight away with UVI Workstation also when loading it in Renoise


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