# ADAPTIVERB



## Musicam (Aug 17, 2016)

Hi friends, I would want to ask you a question about the Adaptiverb plugin. Can I use for OST like Quantum Leap spaces or Lexicon spaces? Specially with predaley, tails etc.. Thanks-


----------



## Dr.Quest (Aug 17, 2016)

It's brand new so I'm not sure how many people have it yet but there is a demo so you could try it out. That's what I'm going to do. It sounds sweet in the videos but I'll be firing it up soon. Seems resonable on price for the intro if it does sound good.


----------



## Dr.Quest (Aug 17, 2016)

Ok, I just fired this up and it is beyond anything I thought it was. Super lush verbs that don't muddy a mix. Superb sound design patches and the demo is good for 30 days! Can't say enough good things. The bad think is it is a CPU hog but man, it seems worth any work around I have to come up with.


----------



## Quasar (Aug 17, 2016)

What we learn from the intro video is that it's revolutionary, auto-magical, has bionic sustain, is super-dense and perfectly diffused. How can that be bad? What more could you need to know?

But, seriously, I am going to look at the demo. I have Pitchmap by them and that is one cool, trippy little plug, so I'm predisposed to think of Zynaptiq as able to make good stuff. And they're certainly ambitious, they really reach out into territory hitherto unexplored... But I don't know if it will work for OST, partly because I have no idea yet what this plug does, and partly because I don't know what OST means, either.


----------



## Quasar (Aug 17, 2016)

Dr.Quest said:


> Ok, I just fired this up and it is beyond anything I thought it was. Super lush verbs that don't muddy a mix. Superb sound design patches and the demo is good for 30 days! Can't say enough good things. The bad think is it is a CPU hog but man, it seems worth any work around I have to come up with.



Wow, interesting quick review. Pitchmap is CPU intensive too, but amazing... Now I'm definitely curious.


----------



## Dr.Quest (Aug 17, 2016)

Tugboat said:


> Wow, interesting quick review. Pitchmap is CPU intensive too, but amazing... Now I'm definitely curious.


Pitch Map is cool. Trying that out as well and again, not like anything out there. As a sound designer I am finding these plug ins at the top of my want list. Can't wait for Wormhole to hear what that's like. Genius stuff!


----------



## Quasar (Aug 17, 2016)

Dr.Quest said:


> Pitch Map is cool. Trying that out as well and again, not like anything out there. As a sound designer I am finding these plug ins at the top of my want list. Can't wait for Wormhole to hear what that's like. Genius stuff!



Did the demo installer ask you to install a PACE driver? When I got Pitchmap in March (I just looked up the email with with order info), there was no need to to do that... Bummer, 'cause I really wanted to try this.


----------



## Dr.Quest (Aug 17, 2016)

I have iLok2 so I already have Pace installed. It does connect to iLok to run the demo. Doesn't bother me as I have been doing it for a long time and it works. I know some people have issues with it. You don't need a key as you can now authorize your computer with out it.


----------



## Quasar (Aug 17, 2016)

Dr.Quest said:


> I have iLok2 so I already have Pace installed. It does connect to iLok to run the demo. Doesn't bother me as I have been doing it for a long time and it works. I know some people have issues with it. You don't need a key as you can now authorize your computer with out it.



Different strokes... You're talking to a vegetarian from behind a butcher shop counter. I wrote a quick note to Zynaptiq telling them how and why they just lost a customer...


----------



## Creston (Aug 18, 2016)

Sounds very cool. Will avoid due to iLok.


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 18, 2016)

It sounds amazing. I just downloaded the demo.


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Aug 18, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> It sounds amazing. I just downloaded the demo.


Have you tried it within an orchestral piece as well?
I am curious to what it produces for orchestral reverberations.


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 18, 2016)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Have you tried it within an orchestral piece as well?
> I am curious to what it produces for orchestral reverberations.




Just starting to. It reacts very dynamically and is so clean. But I will need to learn to control it.


----------



## Musicam (Aug 18, 2016)

Hi Ashermusic, whats your opinion about the concert halls in Adaptiverb? Do you recommend me instead Lexicon for example, ist very expensive Lexicon. Thank you!


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 18, 2016)

My verb tandem of QL Spaces for each orchestral section with a little UAD Plate 140 for all has been to my ears just great and several friends have told me that they thought the sound rivaled expensive hardware.

But after playing with this for a while, I think it is going to replace them in my orchestral template. The "adaptive " quality and the lush yet incredibly pristine sound, plus the easy and intuitive controls, are just blowing my mind.


----------



## Musicam (Aug 18, 2016)

Amazing! Thank you for your support and your attention. I havent bought yet this amazing reverb and I think that its amazing tool and inexpensive in comparison like others. Another cool factor is that its also a
synthesizer and sound designer. The problem that I see is how to adjust in each section of the orchestra parameters . Only decrease or increase the delay, but and in a concert hall , medium or large? Adaptiverb respects the harmonics.


----------



## Dr.Quest (Aug 18, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> My verb tandem of QL Spaces for each orchestral section with a little UAD Plate 140 for all has been to my ears just great and several friends have told me that they thought the sound rivaled expensive hardware.
> 
> But after playing with this for a while, I think it is going to replace them in my orchestral template. The "adaptive " quality and the lush yet incredibly pristine sound, plus the easy and intuitive controls, are just blowing my mind.


Jay, how are you finding the CPU usage? Some patches seem fine. Would you use multiple instances?


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 18, 2016)

It is a CPU demanding plug-in for sure. I am not prepared to recommend a work flow yet.


----------



## Fleer (Aug 18, 2016)

Dr.Quest said:


> Ok, I just fired this up and it is beyond anything I thought it was. Super lush verbs that don't muddy a mix. Superb sound design patches ...


+1 
Wonderful plugin.


----------



## Fleer (Aug 18, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> My verb tandem of QL Spaces for each orchestral section with a little UAD Plate 140 for all has been to my ears just great and several friends have told me that they thought the sound rivaled expensive hardware.
> 
> But after playing with this for a while, I think it is going to replace them in my orchestral template. The "adaptive " quality and the lush yet incredibly pristine sound, plus the easy and intuitive controls, are just blowing my mind.


I'm with you, Jay, this is a game changer if ever there was one. It's this kind of plugins that shows how computers and AI open up a new musical world. I'm in awe.


----------



## babylonwaves (Aug 19, 2016)

i've just played with it for half an hour and i agree with Fleer, this is a game changer. i don't think it will replace any of my existing go-to reverbs (altiverb, lexicon LXP, aether) but this is going to be a great addition. as for the CPU consumption: i cannot put it on a live track unless i work with at least using a buffer size of 512 (mac pro 2013, logic X). well, i can but it crackles a lot.


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 19, 2016)

Zynaptiq recommends a 512 or higher buffer.

I just threw this together in a half an hour, nothing like a real mix (or a real composition It uses a single instance of Adaptiverb Rich Smooth Orchestral Hall.

Worth posting or does it do more harm than good?


----------



## Noam Guterman (Aug 19, 2016)

Anyone willing to do a short AB with Spaces?


----------



## Musicam (Aug 19, 2016)

Wow! Amazing! Great composition! When you describe that you uses Adaptiverb Rich Smooth Orchestral Hall is equal to a preset? Can I use Adaptiverb with a I7 Imac 2.93GHz or consumes so much? What do you think after Lexicon or Quantum Leap Spaces?


----------



## Musicam (Aug 19, 2016)

Watch this with piano.


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 19, 2016)

Musicam said:


> Wow! Amazing! Great composition! When you describe that you uses Adaptiverb Rich Smooth Orchestral Hall is equal to a preset? Can I use Adaptiverb with a I7 Imac 2.93GHz or consumes so much? What do you think after Lexicon or Quantum Leap Spaces?



Are you addressing me? I will assume you are.

Glad you like the composition, I literally improvised it in 45 minutes and I can do that kind of stuff in my sleep but I guess it serves the purpose. 

Yes, that is the name of the preset. My iMac is a 3.4 GHz and it runs it, don't know about yours but try the demo, if you have an iLok 2.

I probably will still use the UAD Lexi 2544 a lot on pop stuff, but I hate to say it, I think for orchestral stuff, this is going to replace QL Spaces, bit it is too early for me to definitely make that call.

My gut is telling me that because I would need to raise the buffer to 512 to use multiple instances, I will probably compose with QL Spaces, then mix with Adaptiverb. Not sure yet though.

What I AM sure about is that this combines both the cleanliness and accuracy of a great convolution reverb, like QL Spaces, with the breathing and life of a good algorithmic reverb, like the UAD Plate 140, AND brings this reaction to the source material that is totally unique. I am bowled over by it.


----------



## Musicam (Aug 19, 2016)

I give you the thanks for the support and the technical and personal guidance in this forum . It is a pleasure to have professionals like you .My sincere gratitude.


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 19, 2016)

Musicam said:


> I give you the thanks for the support and the technical and personal guidance in this forum . It is a pleasure to have professionals like you .My sincere gratitude.



Thank you for the kind words, it is truly my pleasure to share what I learn and believe me, I am still _constantly_ learning from other professionals, and amateurs as well.

Music education (and technology education) is a lifetime of work, it never ends.


----------



## Fleer (Aug 19, 2016)

Also love your composition, Jay.
If that's easy for you to do, kudos indeed!


----------



## Fleer (Aug 19, 2016)

Noam Guterman said:


> Anyone willing to do a short AB with Spaces?


+1
And with Shimmer. 
And with Blackhole.


----------



## Fleer (Aug 19, 2016)

Question: which other creative reverb would be somewhat comparable to Adaptiverb ?
Answer: maybe 2CAudio's B2 ?
Then again, Adaptiverb is more (re)synthesizer than reverb ...
More like 2CAudio's Kaleidoscope then ?
Anyway, it sounds and plays just awesome.
Kudos to the Zynaptiq team for making such a musically creative effect(ive) instrument.


----------



## bc3po (Aug 19, 2016)

Demo'd this today. Very cool, but holy hell it eats CPU


----------



## ModalRealist (Aug 20, 2016)

Just tried the demo of this, and damn it's nice! Haven't had time to really disassemble what effect all the knobs and sliders are having, but the instantly noticeable thing is that it does the job you want reverb to do - "fills in the gaps" of the samples to reintroduce the flowing noise of a live room recording - without any of the smearing, jumbled pile-up you get most of the time. It's really noticeable just loading up a legato patch in both HS and BST, and comparing it to my other reverbs. Really, really impressive.

The only thing I'm not super-hot on is the sound of some of the reverb signal itself. But I've literally only loaded it up twenty minutes ago so... That, and because it's so smooth, I imagine I won't necessarily feel the need to dial up the wet signal anyway.


----------



## Musicam (Aug 20, 2016)

Hi Modalrealist, then do you recomend Adaptiverb for OST. I hear the sound for example with Lexicon and soun for motion picture. My doubt is that Adaptiverb is similar. What is yoir opinion? I need your support. Thanks!


----------



## fiestared (Aug 20, 2016)

I'm trying ADAPTIVERB and it's amazing. One thing, each time it loads a new preset the "Dry/Wet Mix goes back to 1.00, where the sound is completely "wet" is there a way to put this to 0.50(or else) and keep it like that for all the presets (of course without saving it in the preset itself) very usefull feature found in "traditional Reverbs" ? Thanks


----------



## playz123 (Aug 20, 2016)

fiestared said:


> I'm trying ADAPTIVERB and it's amazing. One thing, each time it loads a new preset the "Dry/Wet Mix goes back to 1.00, where the sound is completely "wet" is there a way to put this to 0.50(or else) and keep it like that for all the presets (of course without saving it in the preset itself) very usefull feature found in "traditional Reverbs" ? Thanks


Short of saving the preset, personally I haven't found a way to do that either. With many other plugins as well that setting is embedded and not a Global feature. Maybe people who program might be able to offer some advice?


----------



## Dr.Quest (Aug 20, 2016)

For those using the demo there is a quick CPU trick I found on the control panel. I was having playing issues with latency as soon as the Altiverb was in place. On the upper left of the GUI there is a little watch icon. If you click that it delays the reverb and eliminates the playing latency. When you want to render the track you click that off.


----------



## GonzoFB (Aug 20, 2016)

I'm currently on the fence between spaces,altiverb and Mir but I'm going to have to give this demo a try. Some high praise being expressed.


----------



## ModalRealist (Aug 20, 2016)

Musicam said:


> Hi Modalrealist, then do you recomend Adaptiverb for OST. I hear the sound for example with Lexicon and soun for motion picture. My doubt is that Adaptiverb is similar. What is yoir opinion? I need your support. Thanks!



There's a free demo on their site, I'd suggest trying it out. I don't see any particular reason why it wouldn't be suitable for soundtrack/orchestral work. That's what I've just been trying it out with.


----------



## ModalRealist (Aug 20, 2016)

Edit: added fourth example for consistency.

Thought I'd throw it on the old Harry Potter strings test I did:









First is dry HS Gold. Second is Spaces (possibly a bit wet, but whatever). Third is the Adaptiverb demo (customizing the Adaptive Orchestral Hall 2 preset). I also narrowed the stereo field a smidgen in the Adaptiverb version. They've all been normalized _after _export, to try and get the volumes a bit more on-par.


----------



## dgburns (Aug 20, 2016)

ModalRealist said:


> Thought I'd throw it on the old Harry Potter strings test I did:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Spaces seems to be imposing a room on the sound, but I think I like that one the best of your examples. Adaptosaurus is kinda sounding camouflaged in this example.However some of the web examples are intriguing. Actually I think you convinced me this is not a must buy at the moment.


----------



## Noam Guterman (Aug 20, 2016)

ModalRealist said:


> First is dry HS Gold. Second is Spaces (possibly a bit wet, but whatever). Third is the Adaptiverb demo (customizing the Adaptive Orchestral Hall 2 preset). I also narrowed the stereo field a smidgen in the Adaptiverb version. They've all been normalized _after _export, to try and get the volumes a bit more on-par.


Thanks for doing this! Is it possible that you made the Adaptiverb one drier than the Spaces tho?


----------



## wcreed51 (Aug 20, 2016)

Jay, what preset are you using for orchestral?


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 20, 2016)

wcreed51 said:


> Jay, what preset are you using for orchestral?



Rich Smooth Orchestral Hall.


----------



## ModalRealist (Aug 20, 2016)

Noam Guterman said:


> Thanks for doing this! Is it possible that you made the Adaptiverb one drier than the Spaces tho?



@dgburns, @Noam Guterman, et al. - don't want to put anyone off on account of my failings with it, as opposed to the thing itself. Here's a wetter version, if that's any help:



It's not that the tail itself is anything so _amazingly _special in itself (although I increasingly rather like it). It's the way it processes the transition through the musical material with its "harmonic tracking". You can hear that this new example is, if anything, wetter than Spaces, but the tails from each note don't swallow the next, even in the fast lines.


----------



## Fleer (Aug 20, 2016)

That's what makes it really special indeed.


----------



## wcreed51 (Aug 21, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> Rich Smooth Orchestral Hall.



Thanks Jay, that works (with all parameters dialed back). Everything else I tried rendered things an unrecognizable mush.


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 21, 2016)

wcreed51 said:


> Thanks Jay, that works (with all parameters dialed back). Everything else I tried rendered things an unrecognizable mush.



Not if you adjust the various parameters and the amount you send to it. It is very,very clean.

The only thing stopping me from saying that it will my my "go to" is how incredibly CPU demanding it is.Sonically, I think it is in a league of its own.


----------



## Fleer (Aug 21, 2016)

Some interesting advice on this by the man at the helm:

"- CPU load: you can lower it somewhat by:
a) switching to ALLPASS – lighter on the silicon than Ray Trace
b) switching off the Harmonic Contour Filter. This thing is a full-blown parametric source separation engine and as such eats cycles. It's technically more complex than a (good) spectral denoiser running at max quality...
c) use buffer sizes of at least 512, better yet 1024. Yes, that will give you latency, but it also gives you a lower CPU load in most cases. If inserted on an instrument you want to be able to play live, hit the LIVE mode button – this will report zero latency to the host and the dry path will have zero samples latency. The caveat: the wet path is not latency compensated. BUT as chances aren't bad that you'll be running loooong tails anyway, that turns out to be a small-ish issue in the real world. Well, at least for me "


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 21, 2016)

Tastenklopfer said:


> hmm, after reading all the comments here, I had to try the demo and I played around with the preset "Rich Smooth Orchestral Hall".
> To me it sounds very artifical - especially when a solo instrument is playing (probably because of the harmonic filter) ... Maybe I need to familiarize myself more with the parameters, but until now I like the sound of my LX480 much better
> 
> I also uploaded a comparsion if someone is interested:
> ...



Artificial but great sounding is fine with me, because real with samples is illusory. Unlike convolutions reverbs, Lexicons don't sound real either.

Maybe it is Soundcloud doing its Soundcloud thing, but all 4 of those sound pretty bad to my ears. Even the dry one is muddy.


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 21, 2016)

Tastenklopfer said:


> Well I didn't spend that much time on mixing the whole thing yet and I put the reverb only on the master (I normally use sends) - but I think you can hear the difference when you listen to the solo flute at the end - Adaptiverb is doing some strange things there IMO...
> But I still have a month to try it out and get used to the interface, maybe I'll change my opinion...




Understood. My only point is that if it is muddy even dry, well, it muddies the waters, so to speak with assessing the reverbs.


----------



## Fleer (Aug 21, 2016)

The interesting POV of Adaptiverb is that Zynaptiq particularly does not want to emulate natural room or similar verbs. That's why it's more of a resynthesizer, indeed aimed at sounding great, not natural.


----------



## ModalRealist (Aug 21, 2016)

Fleer said:


> The interesting POV of Adaptiverb is that Zynaptiq particularly does not want to emulate natural room or similar verbs. That's why it's more of a resynthesizer, indeed aimed at sounding great, not natural.



The glue effect from the harmonic filter is what gives it use for orchestral work. I'd probably use Adaptiverb for that glue, and then add a little bit of room from Spaces to give tail. Haven't tried it yet though. To be honest, I generally prefer things with a drier sound - I find a lot of mockup stuff to be drenched - and I think Altiverb sounds great when it's glueing together material that's already got a good sound. Wouldn't use it for spatialisation per se.


----------



## Fleer (Aug 25, 2016)

Just read a great description by the developer: he tends to think of it as "put space into your sounds, not your sounds into a room".
Couldn't have said it better. This is the most amazing plugin I ever heard on a piano. This is what music software was invented for.


----------



## Ashermusic (Aug 25, 2016)

Fleer said:


> Just read a great description by the developer: he tends to think of it as "put space into your sounds, not your sounds into a room".
> Couldn't have said it better. This is the most amazing plugin I ever heard on a piano. This is what music software was invented for.



I like that! I am going on vacation for 10 days but when I return I am going to have a writing gig I am planning to use it on. 
I may be jumping the gun because of the cpu demands and the fact that there will be a learning curve to use it really to its potential, but my gut is telling me that this may be the way forward for me.


----------



## Fleer (Aug 27, 2016)

There's a new vid by the developer. At 7:10 he does his magic on an orchestral chord:


----------



## zynaptiq (Aug 28, 2016)

Hey guys! Thank you for your interest in ADAPTIVERB. I thought I'd stop by in case there are any specific questions 

At any rate, as some of you have correctly pointed out – AV is specifically *not* made to do a better job of room simulation than existing room simulating reverbs. If you go and compare ADAPTIVERB to a Lexicon wanting to hear the Lexicon sound, then you will of course find ADAPTIVERB to be "lacking".
Its an orange, not an apple. If you want a Lex/Bricasti type sound I would recommend grabbing a Lex/Bricasti. I personally would never let go of my 224XL, H8000, Lex PCM Native etc. But they do a different thing.

Similarly, if you compare ADAPTIVERB to a room modeler, you may find it to sound "artificial" when judging the room simulation aspect – it certainly does NOT sound like a real room (well, in most cases, that is, you CAN get some real sounding stuff if you skip the SUSTAIN and go for the REVERB section). It's not designed to sound like a room, but to give you the richness, fullness, depth, sustain etc of reverb *without the actual reverb* to avoid engineering pitfalls like overlap on chord changes, transient energy filling the reverb up with essentially noise that mushes things up etc. 

When mixing records, often I wanted the depth or 3-dimensionality that reverb can give you, wanted to use reverb to embed elements into the mix, to add "cohesion" aka "glue" – but wanted to retain the "in your face" factor, to keep the sound defined. This is what AV does really well. You can even throw it onto the 2track of a record and give it a really nice euphonic...ermm...whatever the best word may be  


Cheers,
Denis


----------



## Fleer (Aug 28, 2016)

Welcome to the thread, Denis, you wonderful plugin developer


----------



## fiestared (Aug 29, 2016)

zynaptiq said:


> Hey guys! Thank you for your interest in ADAPTIVERB. I thought I'd stop by in case there are any specific questions
> 
> At any rate, as some of you have correctly pointed out – AV is specifically *not* made to do a better job of room simulation than existing room simulating reverbs. If you go and compare ADAPTIVERB to a Lexicon wanting to hear the Lexicon sound, then you will of course find ADAPTIVERB to be "lacking".
> Its an orange, not an apple. If you want a Lex/Bricasti type sound I would recommend grabbing a Lex/Bricasti. I personally would never let go of my 224XL, H8000, Lex PCM Native etc. But they do a different thing.
> ...



Hi Dennis congrats to your "great" plugins. 
I have a question about ADAPTIVERB (not sure if it's the best place to ask) Each time I load a new preset the "Dry/Wet Mix goes back to 1.00, where the sound is completely "wet" is there a way to put this to 0.50(or else) and keep it like that for all the presets (of course without saving it in the preset itself) and if not don't you think it would be a good feature ? Thanks


----------



## fiestared (Aug 29, 2016)

zynaptiq said:


> Hey guys! Thank you for your interest in ADAPTIVERB. I thought I'd stop by in case there are any specific questions
> 
> At any rate, as some of you have correctly pointed out – AV is specifically *not* made to do a better job of room simulation than existing room simulating reverbs. If you go and compare ADAPTIVERB to a Lexicon wanting to hear the Lexicon sound, then you will of course find ADAPTIVERB to be "lacking".
> Its an orange, not an apple. If you want a Lex/Bricasti type sound I would recommend grabbing a Lex/Bricasti. I personally would never let go of my 224XL, H8000, Lex PCM Native etc. But they do a different thing.
> ...





fiestared said:


> Hi Dennis congrats to your "great" plugins.
> I have a question about ADAPTIVERB (not sure if it's the best place to ask) Each time I load a new preset the "Dry/Wet Mix goes back to 1.00, where the sound is completely "wet" is there a way to put this to 0.50(or else) and keep it like that for all the presets (of course without saving it in the preset itself) and if not don't you think it would be a good feature ? Thanks



Hi Denis (again)
Because I'm very interested to buy ADAPTIVERB, I'd like to ask you something more, is there a way to know where we are in the presets, something like a dot or else in front of the folder used and in front of the preset... Would be easier to use. Thanks


----------



## zynaptiq (Aug 29, 2016)

Both great points! On the "locking" of D/W: not possible right now, but we already have that on our roadmap. Also locking the LIVE mode, which is a parameter you'll also not want to change when stepping through presets. 

Making the folder location of the currently loaded preset visible (including highlighting the folder icons in the tree) is a great idea. I'll bring it up with the devs.


----------



## SBK (Aug 29, 2016)

Hi why I am not getting a demo in my mail?


----------



## zynaptiq (Aug 29, 2016)

That depends … possibly you have a SPAM filter set up, there's a typo in your email address, or your ISP is blocking form generated email per default...? If you PM me your email I can send you the DL info manually.


----------



## fiestared (Aug 29, 2016)

zynaptiq said:


> Both great points! On the "locking" of D/W: not possible right now, but we already have that on our roadmap. Also locking the LIVE mode, which is a parameter you'll also not want to change when stepping through presets.
> 
> Making the folder location of the currently loaded preset visible (including highlighting the folder icons in the tree) is a great idea. I'll bring it up with the devs.


Thanks Denis, for your reactivity... ADAPTIVERB is the future, and it will help us create different sounds, different ambiances, it reminds me when I had a new synthesizer with new sounds and so, new ideas. I tried it on voices, it's superb !


----------



## SBK (Aug 29, 2016)

Oh sounding awesome! Its like adds a perfect suiting atmosphere with your instrument . cool. very erie


----------



## desert (Aug 30, 2016)

Fleer said:


> There's a new vid by the developer. At 7:10 he does his magic on an orchestral chord:



That orchestra chord just sold me... wow


----------



## muziksculp (Aug 31, 2016)

I read that it is a big CPU hog. How are you dealing with that ?


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Sep 1, 2016)

That´s what I´m interested in too. I got the demo and it sounds great. But it is so demanding, that I don´t see any way to integrate it into any bigger VI setting within my system without passing a lot of other things. So in the moment 
I´m afraid I could only use it for polishing a final mix and a session with mostly audio tracks.....
So I´m not sure if I will go for it, although it´s very nice and the introduction price is pretty could good.


----------



## givemenoughrope (Sep 1, 2016)

But things like Diva and multiple compressor chains can be hogs. It takes half a minute or so to freeze/print even if it's temporary.


----------



## Dietz (Sep 1, 2016)

@zynaptiq : Denis, is there any chance for a true surround/multichannel version of Adaptiverb? I liked the demo a lot, and I would love to use it for sounddesign.

Thanks, and greetings to Stephan!


----------



## desert (Sep 4, 2016)

Hey @zynaptiq - I want to buy this from Australia but the only reseller you have is esellerate which has an overpriced conversion rate... Is this normal?


----------



## Fleer (Sep 4, 2016)

Why don't you just get this from JRR or one of the other US resellers?
https://www.jrrshop.com/zynaptiq-adaptiverb


----------



## tmm (Sep 5, 2016)

I saw mention of this a couple pages ago, but didn't see a reply -

Can anyone who has both B2 and Adaptiverb compare the two? That seems like the closest comparison to me, in terms of intention, and B2 has long sat on my short list of "when I have be money" plugs. I have the money right now, but not enough for both. Any comparisons / recommendations?


----------



## Ashermusic (Sep 5, 2016)

I don't have b2 but nothing is quite like Adaptiverb AFAIK. It is sui generis.


----------



## tmm (Sep 5, 2016)

I can tell you like it, Jay  and your demo sketches of it sound awesome. B2 happens to be pretty special, too. Also a CPU hog.


----------



## Ashermusic (Sep 5, 2016)

tmm said:


> I can tell you like it, Jay  and your demo sketches of it sound awesome. B2 happens to be pretty special, too. Also a CPU hog.




I am sure it is and I am not saying Adaptiverb is better than B2, but I am saying that AFAIK it is different from any other reverb plug-in.


----------



## Fleer (Sep 19, 2016)

Solo Violin (VSL X) processed by two instances of AV.

https://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/ ... adaptiv


----------



## emid (Sep 19, 2016)

I stand corrected but the concept of this reverb is not revolutionary as it is claimed because 'ray tracing' was first used by Quikquack 'RaySpace' reverb: http://www.quikquak.com/prod_rayspace.html Adaptiverb may be more advanced with features and smooth. Have a listen to the quikquak orchestral demos, I really like them.


----------



## Fleer (Sep 19, 2016)

emid said:


> I stand corrected but the concept of this reverb is not revolutionary as it is claimed because 'ray tracing' was first used by Quikquack 'RaySpace' reverb: http://www.quikquak.com/prod_rayspace.html Adaptiverb may be more advanced with features and smooth. Have a listen to the quikquak orchestral demos, I really like them.


Thanks. Checked it out. That's a reverb. A fine reverb, but just a reverb.
Adaptiverb is so much more. It's a creative instrument on its own.


----------



## Mathematics (Sep 25, 2016)

A simple way I found to lower the CPU load, by the DAW with Adaptiverb loaded as an insert, is by running an instance of VEPro hosting Adaptiverb and routing the audio respectively. This is not to say that the CPU is used less, I am stating that the CPU load reported by the DAW, is less...such that the OS core management shows a significant increase in load-per-core efficiency. YMMV.
To do the test, I ran Ableton Live 9 with a buffer size of 256 on the slowest computer on my network - a 3GHz i5 with 8GB ram, W7. (I also did the test on DP9 and PT12 and they all report the same efficiency with Live being the lowest).
Here's a screen shot while holding down some keys on a keyboard (CPU load fluctuations vary mostly in the DAW but do not deviate much from an average load but this depends on the project size):






Obviously, project size will matter but in theory this does demonstrate a more efficient way of running Adaptiverb on larger projects. On my i7 the load is even less but not by very much. Anyway, take all this with a grain of salt...I'm just sharing my work-around for adapting Adaptiverb into a larger project. See what I did there?

Oh, so in lay terms, for those unfamiliar with VEPro, Adaptiverb is running outside the DAW rather than inside. Yes, there is added latency due to the instantiation of the VEP and Server but it's so minimal I don't notice any delay playing live, that is, in real-time.

With this approach, you can process Adaptiverb on a separate computer altogether.


----------



## lpuser (Sep 25, 2016)

desert said:


> Hey @zynaptiq - I want to buy this from Australia but the only reseller you have is esellerate which has an overpriced conversion rate... Is this normal?



I can highly recommend Toolfarm (www.toolfarm.com). Absolutely no issues, excellent service and if you are lucky you can find a coupon via Google that gives you 5% on top.


----------



## Fleer (Sep 25, 2016)

Zynaptiq say they will have a 1.1 update at AES with lower cpu load.


----------



## Mathematics (Sep 25, 2016)

Ah yes, I did read that too. I would like to know what specific aspect of the current programming is going to be sacrificed to achieve a lower CPU load and how it will impact the sound.

Personally, I believe the final product is as close to their vision as it could be. Stripping it down for the sake of lowering clock cycles is a thoughtful idea and advantageous in many circumstances...more than I can count...but for those projects that one would like to max out on texture and make no sacrifices, perhaps we can request a Hi-Lo Quality toggle switch for those of us that do have the computing power in a single machine or slave systems to externally process the sound. Either way...what I demonstrated can be extended to also improve core-load efficiency even after the update.


----------



## Jeast (Sep 25, 2016)

I can't help but think you can have the same sound for less money with Valhalla Shimmer...


----------



## Fleer (Sep 25, 2016)

Jeast said:


> I can't help but think you can have the same sound for less money with Valhalla Shimmer...


I understand what you're thinking, but do compare them. I did as well with Eventide's Blackhole, and there simply is no comparison. Adaptiverb is so deep, organic and musical, that it's almost incredibly beautiful. I'm using it on a Bach project, and it's as if they're made for each other. Sheer bliss.


----------



## nordicguy (Sep 25, 2016)

Jeast said:


> I can't help but think you can have the same sound for less money with Valhalla Shimmer...


Like Fleer said, understandable conclusion.
You can get that "type" of shimmering verbs with both (and with some other plug-ins in the so call verbs category).
But they are totally different.
There's things you'll be able to obtain with Adaptiverb that Valhalla Shimmer an others simply cannot achieve.
Adaptiverb is sort of a out of the world sound designer sculptor reverb ambient unit, so to speak.
That said, Valhalla Shimmer is really great.


----------



## zynaptiq (Sep 26, 2016)

emid said:


> I stand corrected but the concept of this reverb is not revolutionary as it is claimed because 'ray tracing' was first used by Quikquack 'RaySpace' reverb: http://www.quikquak.com/prod_rayspace.html Adaptiverb may be more advanced with features and smooth. Have a listen to the quikquak orchestral demos, I really like them.



The revolutionary part is not the fact that there's raytracing, it is the bionic resynth being used as reverb, as well as the harmonic contour filter's similarity filtering for conforming the tail to the input's tonality, as well as the fact that we're using neural networks to render 16k ray tracing trajectories without explicitly calculating the individual reflections. Quick quak is a straight up ray trace engine. Ray tracing for reverb has been known in architectural physics etc for a long time. It is however typically not realtime capable if you render it at high precision/density. And incidentally, we (as in Prosoniq, whom we've acquired and whose founder and DSP guy our co-founder Stephan was) had RAYVERB years before quick quack


----------



## zynaptiq (Sep 26, 2016)

Mathematics said:


> Ah yes, I did read that too. I would like to know what specific aspect of the current programming is going to be sacrificed to achieve a lower CPU load and how it will impact the sound.
> 
> Personally, I believe the final product is as close to their vision as it could be. Stripping it down for the sake of lowering clock cycles is a thoughtful idea and advantageous in many circumstances...more than I can count...but for those projects that one would like to max out on texture and make no sacrifices, perhaps we can request a Hi-Lo Quality toggle switch for those of us that do have the computing power in a single machine or slave systems to externally process the sound. Either way...what I demonstrated can be extended to also improve core-load efficiency even after the update.



Hey there,

actually, the lower CPU thing will be a so-called PREVIEW mode, so don't worry, there'll be no downgrade in the quality. We'd never do such a thing  Actually, the PREVIEW mode works in a way that sacrifices only very little sonics and can actually sound even better on some types of sound.


----------



## Ashermusic (Sep 26, 2016)

Love Adaptiverb, see you at AES.


----------



## zynaptiq (Sep 26, 2016)

Jeast said:


> I can't help but think you can have the same sound for less money with Valhalla Shimmer...



Shimmer is a cool reverb, I think everybody should have a copy, however it will not
a) adaptively filter out dissonance – try setting up a huge tail and then have chord changes at the input that aren't enharmonic, or
b) ignore noise and transients to prevent noise splashes and graininess when hitting the verb with complex material like a full mix or instruments with a pronounced, unpitched attack, or
c) do pitch quantization or demixing based filtering of specific pitches, or
d) do cross-filtering, or
e) do AV's flavour of synthesiser grade freezing
etc...

Plus: it sounds different. You can not have too many colors in your palette 

Cheers,
d


----------



## zynaptiq (Sep 26, 2016)

muziksculp said:


> I read that it is a big CPU hog. How are you dealing with that ?


Well, it does use a bunch of CPU, but it is manageable. On my Mac Pro I can run about 22 instances at 44k with a 512 buffer size. Lower buffer sizes will start sending the CPU higher, though. If you're on the fence because of CPU, we have an update coming that slashes CPU down nearly by half in a so-called PREVIEW mode that reduces sound quality only very slightly.


----------



## zynaptiq (Sep 26, 2016)

Dietz said:


> @zynaptiq : Denis, is there any chance for a true surround/multichannel version of Adaptiverb? I liked the demo a lot, and I would love to use it for sounddesign.
> 
> Thanks, and greetings to Stephan!


There is a chance, yes  No promises or ETA though. In PT (and possibly other hosts) you should be able to run multi mono I think (currently traveling to AES and can't verify). That said, for making drones I don't think that running dual stereo to get quad would really be any worse than true quad, and I'd personally be wary of adding stuff to the center as there's a lot to be said for reserving the C for solo sounds (music) or dialog (film). But that's maybe just me - we do have multichannel on the radar.


----------



## zynaptiq (Sep 26, 2016)

desert said:


> Hey @zynaptiq - I want to buy this from Australia but the only reseller you have is esellerate which has an overpriced conversion rate... Is this normal?


I'm not sure what price you're seeing and at which reseller, but what has come up in the past is that there's australian tax added; deducting which should make the price match the USD price way more closely.


----------



## emid (Sep 26, 2016)

zynaptiq said:


> The revolutionary part is not the fact that there's raytracing, it is the bionic resynth being used as reverb, as well as the harmonic contour filter's similarity filtering for conforming the tail to the input's tonality, as well as the fact that we're using neural networks to render 16k ray tracing trajectories without explicitly calculating the individual reflections. Quick quak is a straight up ray trace engine. Ray tracing for reverb has been known in architectural physics etc for a long time. It is however typically not realtime capable if you render it at high precision/density. And incidentally, we (as in Prosoniq, whom we've acquired and whose founder and DSP guy our co-founder Stephan was) had RAYVERB years before quick quack



I agree with all you said and as I said earlier that I stand corrected so thanks for correcting my earlier impression. I did mention Adaptiverb is advanced (in features etc) but ray tracing is not and I had the impression that revolutionary stands here for the same. After valhalla shimmer (in some way), Adaptiverb is the first to deal with tonality etc. I have some convolution reverb presets that do the tonality thing but not as impressive as Adaptiverb.


----------



## Zookes (Sep 26, 2016)

I am unsure of this adapting function and sound. 
Playing this reverb, there is two instruments together, not one instrument exciting room acoustics.

It is maybe convenient for reverb adapting like this musically, but desiring this sound, I will maybe layer instead some granular pads?? More control this way also, I think.

My thinking maybe is too outdated for such new ways of things...


----------



## Mathematics (Sep 27, 2016)

zynaptiq said:


> Hey there, actually, the lower CPU thing will be a so-called PREVIEW mode, so don't worry, there'll be no downgrade in the quality. We'd never do such a thing  Actually, the PREVIEW mode works in a way that sacrifices only very little sonics and can actually sound even better on some types of sound.



Fantastic news.


----------



## Mathematics (Sep 27, 2016)

Zookes said:


> I am unsure of this adapting function and sound.
> Playing this reverb, there is two instruments together, not one instrument exciting room acoustics.
> 
> It is maybe convenient for reverb adapting like this musically, but desiring this sound, I will maybe layer instead some granular pads?? More control this way also, I think.
> ...



I like the results I get with Adaptiverb on instruments that have some ambient sustaining resonance and I'll even add a little bit of algorithmic reverb on top of that...but just a little. AVerb can really take up a lot of space if one is not careful with the gain and wet control.


----------



## Zookes (Sep 27, 2016)

Mathematics said:


> I like the results I get with Adaptiverb on instruments that have some ambient sustaining resonance and I'll even add a little bit of algorithmic reverb on top of that...but just a little. AVerb can really take up a lot of space if one is not careful with the gain and wet control.


It is very interesting this kind of sound, I agree. Not to my style tho, and not so flexible for my appreciation.
Deciding instead for Absynth and stacking the Resonators and Aetherizer with delay and some reverb for a similar effect that is not so fluffy.

Adaptiverb is some fun effects tho. Not for me, but can be for others, I think.


----------



## lpuser (Sep 28, 2016)

zynaptiq said:


> Shimmer is a cool reverb, I think everybody should have a copy



Indeed, Shimmer is fantastic and I love it on orchestral stuff. However, after having replaced Shimmer with Adaptiverb on vocal recordings (in an acoustic setup), I personally like the Adaptiverb results better. Maybe it´s the harmonic tracking which fits in so well - and it is handy to have both reverbs at hand.


----------



## Dr.Quest (Sep 28, 2016)

emid said:


> I stand corrected but the concept of this reverb is not revolutionary as it is claimed because 'ray tracing' was first used by Quikquack 'RaySpace' reverb: http://www.quikquak.com/prod_rayspace.html Adaptiverb may be more advanced with features and smooth. Have a listen to the quikquak orchestral demos, I really like them.


I loved Rayspace and used it for years. A damn fine reverb. But he never updated to 64 bit so I can't use it in my setup now. And Adaptiverb is quite a different beast.


----------



## Fleer (Oct 12, 2016)

Sweetwater's take: http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/zynaptiq-adaptiverb-reverb-plug-in-demo/


----------



## tmm (Oct 18, 2016)

Okay, speaking first hand now - Adaptiverb is amazing! And not just for synthy, enormous, lush madness. It works extremely well for fine-tuning / shaping the sound and placement of close, intimate instruments, too. Go to the Fine Tune tab, adjust all parameters to get yourself close, then the Sustain / Mix grid in the middle does the rest. Can post examples if anyone is interested.

My favorite use for it so far has been, in conjunction with automating Reaper's ReaPitch plug (pitch + formant control), as a sound design tool. A couple days ago I worked on a loop-making project where I tried to make a raw electric guitar signal sound like a trumpet in a medium-sized room:



This is 3 tracks of raw electric guitar; the only plugins are:

- ReaPitch and Adaptiverb on the lead track
- ReaPitch and ReaTune on the 2 rhythm tracks (not for tuning purposes)
- An instance of Vinyl on the master for flavor

This loop track is me playing my Vernon Tiple with a violin bow, then adding some more Adaptiverb + ReaPitch + ReaTune madness. There are 6 or 7 (I forget) tracks of bowed and plucked Tiple, no other instruments:



An instance each of Chipcrusher and Vinyl are on the master for flavor.

It doesn't seem to bog down my system the way I expected it to based on comments here, either. I have a 2015 MBP, and one of my latest sessions was running 8 instances of Adaptiverb simultaneously (along with plenty of other plugs) with no hiccups. It's definitely hungry, but not like Diva Divine-level hungry.


----------



## Fleer (Oct 24, 2016)

Sound on Sound has an Adaptiverb review in the November 2016 issue.


----------

