# Dorico Steinberg’s new scoring software



## Guillermo Navarrete (May 17, 2016)

Hello all,

Dorico is the name of our next-generation professional scoring software for composers, arrangers, engravers, copyists and educators. It will be available in the fourth quarter of 2016 from Steinberg resellers and through the Steinberg Online Shop.

Key features:

• Next-generation 64-bit scoring software for OS X and Windows, designed by musicians for musicians
• Beautiful engraved output with unrivaled attention to detail
• Flexible note input and powerful editing, including ability to insert and change duration of existing notes
• Streamlined, single-window interface puts every tool at your fingertips
• Powerful score management features to handle multiple independent pieces of music within the same project
• Unlimited number of staves and movements, sections, or pieces within the same project
• Easily create layouts for full scores and instrumental parts with independent page size, staff size and system layout
• Use your computer keyboard or MIDI keyboard to input music quickly and efficiently
• Superior note spacing with optical kerning of adjacent elements, with tighter default spacing and no rhythmic distortion
• Import and export in MusicXML, MIDI and graphics formats
• Award-winning 32-bit floating-point Steinberg audio engine with flexible routing for virtual instrument and effect playback
• Compatible with VST 3 virtual instruments and effects processors
• Outstanding virtual instruments with more than 1,500 sounds, including HALion Sonic SE 2 workstation and complete HALion Symphonic Orchestra library
• Suite of high-end VST effect processors, including channel strip modules (compressor, EQ, limiter) and convolution reverb

There will be an educational pricing for qualifying teachers and students and a special time-limited crossgrade offer for qualifying Sibelius and Finale users.  

Read more >

Best regards,
GN


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## Jdiggity1 (May 17, 2016)

Much goodness.
I can't wait to find out what optical kerning is.


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## jononotbono (May 17, 2016)

Any idea of a Price? I'm also a student. Would be great to have some sort of figure so I can try and save the Money in time!


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## Guillermo Navarrete (May 17, 2016)

Hello,



jononotbono said:


> Any idea of a Price? I'm also a student. Would be great to have some sort of figure so I can try and save the Money in time!



You can find that information on the link above, but here it is as well: 

Pricing will be €579 inc. taxes (or equivalent in local currency) for a full license.
Eligible users can buy an educational license for €349 inc. taxes

For a limited time, users of qualifying competitive software (retail or educational licenses for Avid Sibelius and MakeMusic Finale, but not cut-down versions such as Sibelius First or PrintMusic) can buy a crossgrade for €299 inc. taxes. 

Best regards,
GN


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## cornelisjordaan (May 17, 2016)

Wow, its almost surreal that this is finally turning into a thing! Really looking forward to what news the next few months will bring.


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## jononotbono (May 17, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks. Sorry, I have been out away from Internet and couldn't previously look at the link.


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## tabulius (May 17, 2016)

So is this tightly integrated to Cubase or what? Looking forward of hearing more!


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## stigc56 (May 17, 2016)

No it's not integrated in Cubase - Yet!


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## Noam Guterman (May 17, 2016)

(edit) turns out the emphasis is on the DO!
Eitherway I'm hyped for this one!!!


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## Prockamanisc (May 17, 2016)

Am I the only one who's curious to know what the word "Dorico" means?


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## Prockamanisc (May 17, 2016)

...and I guess while we're at it, I might as well ask what "Cubase" means, too. Guess I never got curious about that.


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## kclements (May 17, 2016)

Valerio Dorico was one of the first music printers in Rome in the 16th century.

Here is a nice writeup on Dorico. Very excited to get a hold of this one.


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## Prockamanisc (May 17, 2016)

Found it: 

Valerio Dorico was one of the first music printers in Rome in the 16th century. In introducing the product at the MOLA conference in Helsinki this past weekend, Steinberg product marketing manager Daniel Spreadbury said that “originally Dorico was the code name for the program, but in time we failed to find a better name for the program, and the name stuck. However, please don’t pronounce it like the name of a corn chip! The emphasis is on the first syllable: DO-ri-co.”


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## jononotbono (May 17, 2016)

Prockamanisc said:


> Am I the only one who's curious to know what the word "Dorico" means?



I think Steinberg has named it after Valerio Dorico who was a Music printer in 16th Century Rome!


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## lucky909091 (May 17, 2016)

1. When can I ask for the crossgrade offer for Sibelius users?
2. How can I prove that I am a Sibelius-full-version user?


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## muziksculp (May 17, 2016)

Good to hear some news about this.

I'm guessing that the integration with Cubase will happen in *Cubase Pro 9* .


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## wcreed51 (May 17, 2016)

I'm not aware of any integration with Cubase having been promised


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## SomeGuy (May 17, 2016)

I'll wait until I see some youtube videos before getting too excited, but I am happy to see scoring software still being produced. Hopefully it will have some ipad / tablet use as well in the future. BTW, I doubt we will see any integration in Cubase besides exporting projects to be opened in Dorico. Why give it away to Cubase users when you can sell a completely new $500+ product!


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## Lassi Tani (May 17, 2016)

Very excited! Pianoroll, VST support, full audio mixer, and this: "Most interestingly, independent tracks will exist for each playing technique played by each instrument held by each player, in much the same way composers score using modern sequencers and sample libraries. Presumably this will make it easier for future interoperability among Dorico and Steinberg’s sequencer and audio products."


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## midiman (May 17, 2016)

Excited to hear about the release. How soon is it planned to have Cubase integration? It would be great to be able to copy notes from the Key Editor, into the Dorico score. To help transcribe faster pieces programmed on Cubase into Dorico. This is a feature I always dreamed of. I am not a fan of exporting Midi Files from cubase into sibelius. It is too messy, and too time consuming. I'd rather do it on a Copy and Paste fashion, from Key Editor to Score. Who agrees?


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## jononotbono (May 17, 2016)

I wonder if the iPad Pro and iPencil will be 100% supported with it? It would be incredible if so!


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## DaddyO (May 17, 2016)

The Steinberg forum now has a Dorico [pre-release] section:

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=246

Daniel Spreadbury is actively interacting with questions.


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## Pablocrespo (May 17, 2016)

Also, DOrico means dorian (mode) in spanish!!!!


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## rgames (May 17, 2016)

Looks very interesting.

I still can't quite tell where this is aimed. Is it aimed at engravers, a replacement for Finale/Sibelius? Or is it aimed at DAW-based composers who want better built-in notation capabilities (count me in)? Or is it both?

At some point some piece of software is going to remove the distinction between MIDI and traditional notation, merging old technology with the new. Maybe this will be it!

rgames


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## Rodney Money (May 17, 2016)

No chord symbols, no guitar tablature, what else is this professional engraving software missing?


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## Daryl (May 17, 2016)

midiman said:


> Excited to hear about the release. How soon is it planned to have Cubase integration?


There is no timescale for that yet.



midiman said:


> It would be great to be able to copy notes from the Key Editor, into the Dorico score. To help transcribe faster pieces programmed on Cubase into Dorico. This is a feature I always dreamed of. I am not a fan of exporting Midi Files from cubase into sibelius. It is too messy, and too time consuming. I'd rather do it on a Copy and Paste fashion, from Key Editor to Score. Who agrees?


Currently the best way is either to tidy up the MIDI before exporting (quantising notes and note lengths) or to use the Score to MIDI function (if your score page is tidy). I also hope that there will be a better way in time, but for now I would think that the same limitations apply with Dorico. As far as copy paste from the key editor, you'd have to do the quantise thing for this to work anyway, so it wouldn't be much of a time saver.


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## Daryl (May 17, 2016)

rgames said:


> I still can't quite tell where this is aimed. Is it aimed at engravers, a replacement for Finale/Sibelius? Or is it aimed at DAW-based composers who want better built-in notation capabilities (count me in)? Or is it both?


It's a Sibelius/Finale replacement that is faster and better. In time. There is also the plan for a more close integration with Cubendo, but from the start it will be just a standalone piece of software. The use of sample libraries should be much easier though than with either Sibelius or Finale.


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## Daryl (May 17, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> No chord symbols, no guitar tablature, what else is this professional engraving software missing?


I don't think that Daniel knows yet. It all depends what they have time for within the release timescale . There will be a few (free) updates over the first few months so I would hope that when V1 is slightly more mature, the usual features will all be there.


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## Daryl (May 17, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> I wonder if the iPad Pro and iPencil will be 100% supported with it? It would be incredible if so!


No it's not and that is not currently planned for, although there may be some inter-connectivity with Staffpad over time.


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## trumpoz (May 17, 2016)

Integration is planned in the future, but at this stage Daniel seems to promote this primarily as a scoring software. I'm going to wait until for a while before jumping on this. I want to see some walkthroughs/demos etc before spending that amount of $$ on more software.


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## Jdiggity1 (May 17, 2016)

Any word on whether Dorico will require an e-licenser?


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## mverta (May 17, 2016)

"Dorico."

...Dorico... because they "couldn't think of a better name in time." (How hard did you try?)

Unfortunate. Well good luck anyway, boys. We're all counting on you.


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## Sean J (May 17, 2016)

*Why I don't use Cubase anymore & How you'll get me on Dorico:*

It's been 7 years since Expression Maps were released. It was the only thing that kept me for so long. The growing bugs and truly out-of-touch sense of user-oriented design became so much that I finally tried Studio One 3.2. I demoed it the full 30 days without Cubase installed. I went into every corner and found a program that had features long requested from Steinberg. Docking windows, useful VST performance monitoring, curve tools for MIDI (much faster to work with), as well as creativity-oriented features like the sketchpads, and a million other small useful features like humanize.

I'm not the first one to say it. I'm certainly not the loudest either. Steinberg even acknowledged a need to change in their own forum. Dorico seems to be slightly more open with the blog. And I'm thrilled to see Daniel Spreadbury's team behind it just because of what they did with Sibelius and from what I've read on Making Notes. You guys are working to get a head of the curve with Dorico. And that's great. But...

I'd rather not invest money into a good 1.0 idea if it doesn't have a promise of solid future development. So...

*In the next 5 months please get a vote-based feature request forum up and running.*

Look at how Studio One treats feature requests with their vote-based answers forum. It keeps priority transparent which keeps them accountable to serving existing and paying user interests first, which is what's more profitable anyway. If you do this in the next 5 months and I like what I see in Dorico, that's the only way it will stand a chance for me personally.

-Sean

P.S. And I have to say I am absolutely loving having a DAW without a dongle. Seriously, user experience matters. I'll take a DAW with 12 amazing features over one with 15 poorly designed features that makes composing more difficult than pleasurable to do on a computer. Daniel said Dorico won't require the dongle. So why does Cubase still? Seriously, lose the ball and chain!


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## InLight-Tone (May 17, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> I wonder if the iPad Pro and iPencil will be 100% supported with it? It would be incredible if so!



No way, Surface Pro and pen instead!?!


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## Sean J (May 17, 2016)

InLight-Tone said:


> No way, Surface Pro and pen instead!?!



+1

The iPad Pro is a waste of money. The RAM and OS alone compared with the Surface? It's not even a comparison. One can run a DAW (a real DAW) and samples in standard software. The other can't. I love my iPhone but a better tablet is a better tablet!


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## SomeGuy (May 17, 2016)

scoredfilms said:


> P.S. And I have to say I am absolutely loving having a DAW without a dongle. Seriously, user experience matters. I'll take a DAW with 12 amazing features over one with 15 poorly designed features that makes composing more difficult than pleasurable to do on a computer. Daniel said Dorico won't require the dongle. So why does Cubase still? Seriously, lose the ball and chain!



I find comments like this odd from my perspective. I use a mac pro, have a USB hub with my dongle(s) plugged in, and never consciously think "Is cubase going to open?" It just does. The dongle is part of my physical studio that doesn't move (along with my monitors, keyboard, audio interface, speakers, etc) and frankly I forget its even there. The only time I find a dongle slightly annoying is when I need to move my VSL or Play libraries around to different slave computers because I'm maxing out my main system, but this is quite rare. Other then that, I've never had a problem. I find this a MUCH better solution to internet check-in, as a 3rd party controlled network is much more likely to go down than my own dongle. Maybe this makes a bigger deal if you are running a mobile studio, which I do see a dongle could be a very big issue, but other than that specific scenario, I'm confused by all the dongle hate.


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## DaddyO (May 17, 2016)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Any word on whether Dorico will require an e-licenser?



Per Daniel on the Steinberg Dorico pre-release forum, Dorico will use a soft-elicenser, i.e., resident in software on the computer. He also said that using e-licenser software the license could be transferred to a USB e-licenser so the user could move it to another computer, otherwise working on a second computer would require a second license.


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## Jdiggity1 (May 17, 2016)

I hate the lack of USB ports on my macbook more than I hate the dongles.


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## Sean J (May 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Maybe this makes a bigger deal if you are running a mobile studio, which I do see a dongle could be a very big issue, but other than that specific scenario, I'm confused by all the dongle hate.



I have 3 machines that stay put. But sometimes I get away for a few days just to isolate myself from the world and focus only on music. If I could run a laptop with 256GB of RAM and have pocket studio monitors that sounded good, I'd do more work outdoors than in. But taking a dongle with me, especially if I'm flying, is a major drawback. VSL is the only dongle-required company I use anything from anymore. And honestly if I had as good a piano and VEP via another company I would go with it just to remove it entirely just for the sake of keeping my setup as flexible as I prefer it to be. Those preferences rise out of my life and other choices. But I'm happier with those choices. That's me though.


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## rgames (May 17, 2016)

scoredfilms said:


> taking a dongle with me, especially if I'm flying, is a major drawback.


If you're flying commercial airlines then the dongle is about #500 on the list of things to complain about.

I fly 3-6 times a month and carry three dongles with me. Toothpaste. Razor. Wallet. Passport. Dongles.

No big deal.


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## Sean J (May 17, 2016)

rgames said:


> If you're flying commercial airlines then the dongle is about #500 on the list of things to complain about.
> 
> I fly 3-6 times a month and carry three dongles with me. Toothpaste. Razor. Wallet. Passport. Dongles.
> 
> No big deal.



So you've never forgot to pack something, ever?
You've never lost anything small?
In the middle of a project you've never had anything go wrong?

Who are you? You must be some kind of robot, or super hero... lol

Look, I take Studio One and my instruments with me and I don't need to grab anything extra or lose productivity cause I forgot something or worry about losing access to my DAW while on a deadline. I call that easier, some call it peculiar and would play the 'which license is on which computer' game, or the 'oh look, my friend's kid just bent this thing' game (yes, it happened). So hey, because life is perfect for you guys... go ahead and keep on using it. I don't have to for 95% of what I do, and I don't have to when I travel now. So good for you, and even better for me. =)


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## Pietro (May 18, 2016)

I'm looking forward to this release. Though, I don't think I will be one of the early adopters. I've invested too much time in Sibelius (custom macros, some processing automation) and went too deeply into it, to easily jump into another software.

What worries me is that it may be sort of working software by the time it is released, but it could also be missing a lot of features I feel are necessary. In the meantime, Sibelius is growing, and growing... slower (!!!) with each release as it's built and expanded around the very same core for the last 18 years.

I still may buy the crossgrade to check it and to support the Dorico team.

- Piotr


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## Noam Guterman (May 18, 2016)

Any idea on Surface Pro compatibility? (in terms of touch & pen)


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## Guillermo Navarrete (May 18, 2016)

Hello all, 



lucky909091 said:


> 1. When can I ask for the crossgrade offer for Sibelius users?
> 2. How can I prove that I am a Sibelius-full-version user?



For a limited time, users of qualifying competitive software (retail or educational licenses for Avid Sibelius and MakeMusic Finale, but not cut-down versions such as Sibelius First or PrintMusic) can buy a crossgrade for €299 inc. taxes. Final terms and conditions and qualifying software for the time-limited crossgrade price will be communicated before release. 



midiman said:


> Excited to hear about the release. How soon is it planned to have Cubase integration? It would be great to be able to copy notes from the Key Editor, into the Dorico score. To help transcribe faster pieces programmed on Cubase into Dorico. This is a feature I always dreamed of. I am not a fan of exporting Midi Files from cubase into sibelius. It is too messy, and too time consuming. I'd rather do it on a Copy and Paste fashion, from Key Editor to Score. Who agrees?



There is no integration planned at the moment, but it might come in the future, definitively not for Cubase 9. 



Rodney Money said:


> No chord symbols, no guitar tablature, what else is this professional engraving software missing?



Because Dorico is still under heavy development at the time of writing, it’s not yet possible to provide specific information about Dorico’s weaknesses.



Jdiggity1 said:


> Any word on whether Dorico will require an e-licenser?



It will be soft-eLicneser based. No dongle will be required. 



Pietro said:


> I'm looking forward to this release. Though, I don't think I will be one of the early adopters. I've invested too much time in Sibelius (custom macros, some processing automation) and went too deeply into it, to easily jump into another software.
> 
> What worries me is that it may be sort of working software by the time it is released, but it could also be missing a lot of features I feel are necessary. In the meantime, Sibelius is growing, and growing... slower (!!!) with each release as it's built and expanded around the very same core for the last 18 years.
> 
> ...



Sibelius and Finale are very mature applications, each with more than 20 years’ development behind them. Dorico, on the other hand, is a brand-new application built from the ground up using the latest technologies, and provides a strong foundation for us to continue to deliver new features and improvements quickly following the initial release. 

Dorico 1.0 will be missing features that are present in competitive programs, including features that are important to different groups of users, but we are committed to releasing a number of free updates to add features and fill in as many gaps as possible. We will be as open as possible about this strategy with our early adopters, and we will use end-user feedback to help set our development priorities for these updates. 

Best regards,
GN


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## Guillermo Navarrete (May 18, 2016)

Hello again,



rgames said:


> Looks very interesting.
> 
> I still can't quite tell where this is aimed. Is it aimed at engravers, a replacement for Finale/Sibelius? Or is it aimed at DAW-based composers who want better built-in notation capabilities (count me in)? Or is it both?
> 
> ...



Dorico is designed to be used by musicians of all kinds, from composers, arrangers and copyists writing for the concert hall or the scoring stage, to engravers and publishers preparing music for publication, to the music student and teacher working at universities and music colleges.

Dorico features fast and flexible input and editing, beautiful automatic music engraving and high-quality playback using the world-class Steinberg audio engine. 

Best regards,
GN


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## Daryl (May 18, 2016)

Noam Guterman said:


> Any idea on Surface Pro compatibility? (in terms of touch & pen)


No, this is not planned. Daniel has said that the team are keeping in touch with Staffpad, so there may be some collaboration their.


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## Ryan (May 18, 2016)

Looks very promising.
I don't see the need for the Cubase integration as long as it have the piano roll & VST. Everything I need 
The copy / paste from Cubase would be an awesome feature for sure!!

Best
Ryan


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## IvanP (May 18, 2016)

Looks pretty interesting, but there are 2 things that should lead me into it...

1st: TOTAL DAW Integration: aka Cubase Integration for scoring and orchestrating. To me and to any midi orchestrator, this is a MUST!

For example:
-being able to bypass Cubase's own score editor and connect it to Dorico: add channel = add player/instrument on Dorico
-Sync video in cubase with the Editor and tempo mapping, etc. (add/ change meter in the sequence ==> immediate effect on Dorico)

2nd: Dynamic Playback. Wallander was a game changer in Sibelius. Hopefully there will be some integration options or a similar playback through Halion.

Other than that, too bad it won't come in Cubase 9...hopefully you guys will start thinking soon about the importance of the fast midi-orchestration capabilities niche. We've been saying this for ages!

In any case, good luck with it!


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## devonmyles (May 18, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Hello again,
> Dorico is designed to be used by musicians of all kinds, from composers, arrangers and copyists writing for the concert hall or the scoring stage, to engravers and publishers preparing music for publication, to the music student and teacher working at universities and music colleges.
> GN



No Chord symbols and no Guitar tab at present?
So you are not aiming at the "Dog & Duck" market?
 

Looks interesting.
It would be nice to have it working in Cubase, but hey, early days.
I would more than likely crossgrade from Finale, just because I am a Steiny at heart.


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## Steve Martin (May 18, 2016)

Hi there Guillermo,

I'm really looking forward to the release of this program. I saw someone mention something about being able to access a "piano roll". Is this correct? If so, that means it is similar in someways to another notation software I know that gives you access to a piano roll, plus all the usual vst controllers.

So, can I use all other vst instruments for playback such as LASS, VSL, East West, and Project Sam and various Kontakt libraries etc for playback with this software? I'm guessing that's what the details say, but I'd like to confirm that for sure.
Will it also have the ability to have soundsets for various vst libraries created for it as Sibelius does?

Thanks if you can answer some of my questions.

best,

Steve.


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## Daryl (May 18, 2016)

Steve Martin said:


> So, can I use all other vst instruments for playback such as LASS, VSL, East West, and Project Sam and various Kontakt libraries etc for playback with this software? I'm guessing that's what the details say, but I'd like to confirm that for sure.


Theoretically, yes. However something thing to remember; it's primarily VST3, so the only VST2 plugs you'll be able to load are those on a white list. I'm sure Kontakt is on that list, but you would need to make your own investigations about any others.


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## stigc56 (May 18, 2016)

scoredfilms said:


> +1
> 
> The iPad Pro is a waste of money. The RAM and OS alone compared with the Surface? It's not even a comparison. One can run a DAW (a real DAW) and samples in standard software. The other can't. I love my iPhone but a better tablet is a better tablet!


I think it's funny to read the above from a man who clearly sets user experience above the features. I had a Surface Pro 3 and StaffPad pro for about 4 month, but couldn't get used to the Windows Interface, always blocking my creativity with some dialogues that wanted me to upgrade/update and so on. I bought the iPad Pro the moment it was released and I think it's "ready and able" every time I need it to be! Updates in the background, super fast connections, fantastic display. So this just to say: You have to select the hardware that suits your needs, and if you find yourself in a situation where you don't think it works for you get rid of it and try out something else!


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## AllanH (May 18, 2016)

This looks very interesting. I'd love to spend more time writing music, and less programming midi. It will be interesting to see how this product implements the "midi programming" aspects of articulation switching, CC-control etc.


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## Daryl (May 18, 2016)

AllanH said:


> It will be interesting to see how this product implements the "midi programming" aspects of articulation switching, CC-control etc.


For a start you can use Expression maps, so that should help. as far as CC control, I can't say, except that it will be much easier than attempting it in Sibelius or Finale.


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## Steve Martin (May 18, 2016)

Daryl said:


> Theoretically, yes. However something thing to remember; it's primarily VST3, so the only VST plugs you'll be able to load are those on a white list. I'm sure Kontakt is on that list, but you would need to make your own investigations about any others.


Hi Daryl,

thank you for that information. Much appreciated!

best,

Steve


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## Rodney Money (May 18, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Because Dorico is still under heavy development at the time of writing, it’s not yet possible to provide specific information about Dorico’s weaknesses.


I wish you much success in all your products, my friend. Your work helps our work. My last commission was a school Alma Mater which required chord changes on a lead sheet. Will Dorico be able to do this?


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## Harcourt (May 18, 2016)

Daryl said:


> For a start you can use Expression maps


That's good news.
Unfortunately the range of expression symbols in Cubase is not comprehensive, and does not accommodate many of the available articulations included in many sample libraries - and substituting with text instead is ugly. Do you know if Dorico will contain the full range of symbols? If not, the possibility of importing custom/3rd party fonts and symbols would be an advantage.


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## Ryan (May 18, 2016)

I could easily see myself using only this for composing. VST-3, piano roll etc..

I see myself using Dorico (in a near future) and Vienna Ensemble Pro VST3 with Kontakt (Spitfire Audio) on slaves. That with the piano roll, midi-keyboard, expression-maps could be a real killer. CC-control, I would think they made it like Cubase.

Is the mixer something like the one we have in Cubase already?


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## AllanH (May 18, 2016)

Daryl - than you for answering and listening. With my DAW I'm finding it necessary to compose/program in the Piano Roll View. The PRV is very inefficient in its use of screen space during the creative aspects of the composing. I'd be interested in a functional notation system where I could play-in the parts, see all of them together, and then deep-dive into a PRV for fine tuning. Especially as I orchestrate, having the full score visible and editable would help immensely. This might be what gets me to move into the Steinberg universe.


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## Daryl (May 18, 2016)

Harcourt said:


> That's good news.
> Unfortunately the range of expression symbols in Cubase is not comprehensive, and does not accommodate many of the available articulations included in many sample libraries - and substituting with text instead is ugly. Do you know if Dorico will contain the full range of symbols? If not, the possibility of importing custom/3rd party fonts and symbols would be an advantage.


I can't answer that, I'm afraid. However, It might be worth asking the question of the Dorico forum at Steinberg, because Daniel is answering lots of questions at the moment.


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## Harcourt (May 18, 2016)

Daryl said:


> I can't answer that, I'm afraid. However, It might be worth asking the question of the Dorico forum at Steinberg, because Daniel is answering lots of questions at the moment.


Thanks for the reply Daryl, I'll head over there and pose the question.


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## ag75 (May 18, 2016)

lucky909091 said:


> 2. How can I prove that I am a Sibelius-full-version user?


By showing all of the crash reports...


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## Vik (May 18, 2016)

IvanP said:


> Looks pretty interesting, but there are 2 things that should lead me into it...
> 
> 1st: TOTAL DAW Integration: aka Cubase Integration for scoring and orchestrating. To me and to any midi orchestrator, this is a MUST!


My feeling is that most users making orchestral mockups etc rather would have a score app which was so good (allowing 3rd part plugins, automating CCs, Expression Maps, a good mixer etc) that they wouldn't need to export the music to a DAW or use the score editor as an integrated part of a DAW. Using one app is so much easier than having to deal with two. (But of course, for people who already own and know Cubase, it would be great if Dorico would be fully integrated and appear inside Cubase the same way the existing builtin score editor does. 

"2nd: Dynamic Playback. Wallander was a game changer in Sibelius."
Please explain?


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## jamwerks (May 18, 2016)

Being as Cubase, Finale & Sibelius user, I excited about this. Hoping for an improved score editor in Cubase (coming from Dorico). And hoping for some kind of integration down the line.


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## Noam Guterman (May 18, 2016)

Vik said:


> "2nd: Dynamic Playback. Wallander was a game changer in Sibelius."
> Please explain?


NotePerformer
http://www.noteperformer.com/


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## prodigalson (May 18, 2016)

Noam Guterman said:


> NotePerformer
> http://www.noteperformer.com/



sounds fine but Id rather use my own VSTs and get creative


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## Noam Guterman (May 18, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> sounds fine but Id rather use my own VSTs and get creative


wouldn't we all?


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## SomeGuy (May 18, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> For a limited time, users of qualifying competitive software (retail or educational licenses for Avid Sibelius and MakeMusic Finale, but not cut-down versions such as Sibelius First or PrintMusic) can buy a crossgrade for €299 inc. taxes. Final terms and conditions and qualifying software for the time-limited crossgrade price will be communicated before release.
> 
> Sibelius and Finale are very mature applications, each with more than 20 years’ development behind them. Dorico, on the other hand, is a brand-new application built from the ground up using the latest technologies, and provides a strong foundation for us to continue to deliver new features and improvements quickly following the initial release.
> 
> Dorico 1.0 will be missing features that are present in competitive programs, including features that are important to different groups of users, but we are committed to releasing a number of free updates to add features and fill in as many gaps as possible. We will be as open as possible about this strategy with our early adopters, and we will use end-user feedback to help set our development priorities for these updates.



To clarify, Steinberg is offering limited time only crossgrades for users of Sibelius and Finale to Dorico 1.0, and already admitted Dorico will be "_missing features from these competitive programs, including features that are important to different groups of users?_" So in summary, you can crossgrade from these more mature products now and save a significant amount of money on Dorico but have to wait for features you may rely on from these products to be included in Dorico (if they ever are included - which may or may not be paid upgrades btw). Or you can keep using the software you currently own and if you ever wanted to switch to Dorico in the future you can pay full price, which may or may not be a major factor in if you switch or not, which is why Steinberg are offering crossgrades for users of Sibelius and Finale in the first place?


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## Sean J (May 18, 2016)

stigc56 said:


> I think it's funny to read the above from a man who clearly sets user experience above the features. I had a Surface Pro 3 and StaffPad pro for about 4 month, but couldn't get used to the Windows Interface, always blocking my creativity with some dialogues that wanted me to upgrade/update and so on. I bought the iPad Pro the moment it was released and I think it's "ready and able" every time I need it to be! Updates in the background, super fast connections, fantastic display. So this just to say: You have to select the hardware that suits your needs, and if you find yourself in a situation where you don't think it works for you get rid of it and try out something else!



Features and user experience go hand in hand. I'm not saying they don't. But I'm not contradicting mysel

My user goal is to cross a lake as smoothly as I can.

In one hand I compared two airplanes. I say that the smoother ride is better than the one that can also fly upside down. In the other hand I compare a boat to a bicycle and say the bike is a waste of time. You're answer is that because you've ridden the bike in a different context and enjoyed a smoother ride, that I'm at odds with my own opinions and should favor the bike.

If I compare two tablets, one of which isn't even able to turn on... which one do you think has the better user experience? The ability to even run my DAW means that the Surface Pro trumps the iPad Pro for my own user experience. If both were in the same league, you'd have a point. In fact, the same point I had about the DAWs. One does a little less and does it all very well. In that case User Experience came from good design, not number of features. In the case of using a tablet to compose with the tools I use at my workstation, user experience comes from having essential features to begin with (bike vs boat). In either case, user experience is the bottom line.

Cheers,
Sean


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## Daryl (May 18, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> So in summary, you can crossgrade from these more mature products now and save a significant amount of money on Dorico but have to wait for features you may rely on from these products to be included in Dorico (if they ever are included - which may or may not be paid upgrades btw).


Luckily nobody has to make that decision now. I already know that Chords and Guitar TAB are probably not going to be there in V1. I've been a Sibelius user since 1993 and have never used either, so don't care about that. However, I will be looking at the feature list very carefully one it is announced.


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## Sean J (May 18, 2016)

In light of my previous post, about UX depending on design, features (as well as several other unmentioned factors), I'd like to provide the feedback of what's most important to me in notation software.

*Most important:*
I can mock-up and compose in notation first. Sequencers have been necessary. I still prefer notation. But is editing the MIDI performance as intuitive, fast, and flexible as the DAW? This is always lacking. If done right, I'd use notation first. "Right" means recording CC data, drawing in curves, and for multiple MIDI CC values.

*Second:*
Articulations. I use the DAW to its fullest potential here. I see this being a problem moving to notation. What if I want to put multiple voices on one staff using two articulations, with their own CC data? I don't want them to crecendo at the exact same time the same way. I want it to be more human. Can I record/edit this? Also, what if I want to layer 2 samples, spiccato and pizzicato, can I do this as well? In VEP I have each articulation on it's own MIDI channel as this provides the most flexibility. But I still prefer editing things on one staff. It's one instrument of course. It's just not only capable of one thing at one time when you have more than one player. The more similar this is to what a DAW can do, the more I'm inclined to use it as my primary tool.

*Third:*
If the first two don't happen adequately enough, then the next best thing would be truly intelligent and flexible importing. Sibelius allowed modular selecting of data to import, but ultimately it was never as seamless as I would hope. Messy data is messy data, I know. But the more it can do what I would have done in the first place, as Daniel once well described, the better the tool is in my experience. I believe that will require looking at a wide sample of DAW user data to get right.

The engraving features, while primary to others such as copyists and OCD crazy people who like rules more than music, are secondary to myself. And the forum explodes with flamers in 3... 2... 1...  (I only kid of course)

-Sean


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## Daryl (May 18, 2016)

I think that what we've seen so far is very hopeful on the first two of your requests, Sean.

As far as a good looking score and parts, that's important to orchestrators and composers who work with players, and to that crowd the whole MIDI mock-up is a complete waste of time. Therefore, as a notation program I suspect that whilst the mock-up features will be better than the competition, I can't see them being as comprehensive as those in Cubase. In time. maybe...


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## Rodney Money (May 18, 2016)

scoredfilms said:


> The engraving features, while primary to others such as copyists and OCD crazy people who like rules more than music


Careful.


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## Sean J (May 18, 2016)

Clearly understood sheet music makes a better performance which makes better music. So I appreciate it. I'll state that for the record. I just like to remind people that composing tools matter just as much as engraving tools. From the looks of it, this program is very promising. The more it can marry the two in the same environment the less messy translation work has to be done to get it performed. Plus, working with notation from the start would also be great for those of us who think in staves rather than tracks. Not that we aren't all a bit ambidextrous because of where things have gone, which is good in its own way. But my brain works at least 100x faster in notation than a piano roll. So I hope it does get there, even if only eventually...


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## JT (May 18, 2016)

I'll take a wait and see attitude. The grass is always greener on the other side, because they use a different fertilizer. Once the product is in the users hands, we'll see if it lives up to the hype.


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## gjelul (May 18, 2016)

I just wished they'd make Cubase more stable instead


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## mverta (May 18, 2016)

If I'm notating, it's for players. If it's for players, it doesn't need to be a DAW. If I need a DAW, I have a dedicated one. Programs which try to be everything for everyone generally fail. Given the seriousness with which the design team has approached engraving, I suspect and hope their primary target is the professional copyist, orchestrator, and those of us who compose primarily on paper. I will continue to follow the development with great interest.


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## prodigalson (May 18, 2016)

That's like saying Avid should stop updating Sibelius to focus on making ProTools better


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## Sean J (May 18, 2016)

I agree that trying to do everything can hurt a program. But convincing performances only speaks to existing notation features already. MIDI playback is already there. But if playback isn't convincing then the implementation of it should improve. That's my only real claim here. I'm not saying it should record audio or do half of what a DAW can do. I'm saying the MIDI performance abilities of a DAW outperform that of notation, which prevents my using a notation tool for the bulk of my work.

I'm certainly not asking for too much when I say I want a tool made for composition via notation, which has features which meet common modern scoring needs (convincing playback control/midi editing, timecode/cue management, etc). No such tool marries notation and playback adequately yet. I suppose Notion does, but it's not as robust, flexible, or as intuitive and fast to work in as Studio One. It's just not as effective to work with. So still, notation software has yet to catch up with the DAW from a composing perspective, at least from a film scoring perspective.


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## colony nofi (May 19, 2016)

gjelul said:


> I just wished they'd make Cubase more stable instead


This is a completely different set of people. It has zero to do with cubase development. At least at the moment. Planned integration I read as exactly that - PLANNED! . You'll find a lot of info over at the blog for the program - which is well worth reading.


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## Sean J (May 20, 2016)

Harcourt said:


> Have you looked at Overture 5 by Sonicscores: https://sonicscores.com/ ? It has some DAW like features and quite comprehensive scoring capability. The current version is in public beta; there are quite a few bugs to still iron out, but it's developer is very hands on, and responds well to reasonable requests.



I will NEVER get used to how often people throw me curve balls. Seriously, people pop up everywhere with programs, samples, and all sorts of crazy! The program looks like it could be a bit more minimalist in design, but the common tools seem to be up front. And it looks to have many of the features I've wanted to see. Most importantly, it looks like the goals of the developers are that of my own. So I'm impressed to see it. Although that marketing... yikes! lol Either way, thanks a lot... I now have another distraction to eat my time! (though one I gladly welcome)


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## Erik (May 20, 2016)

[Edited: removed content. Not the right place]


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## Daryl (May 20, 2016)

Erik, you do know that this is a Commercial Announcement thread, don't you? I suggest that you start a new thread, before this one is polluted.


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## prodigalson (May 20, 2016)

Wow, I've never seen such a blatant and glowing endorsement of a competitors product in a commercial announcement thread. 

Unbelievable.


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## prodigalson (May 20, 2016)

Sean, you've been a member here for all of 2 months. Developers have rights too, it's not all about what you need.

Commercial announcements are for developers announcing and promoting their products.


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## playz123 (May 20, 2016)

scoredfilms said:


> Daryl,
> 
> I actually believe a commercial announcement thread is the perfect place for people to say "this is or isn't what we want" and compare it side by side to other products. rs,
> Sean


Nope, that's exactly what this conference isn't for....as has been pointed out numerous time previously. Daryl is correct. Comparisons and discussions of other products are for other threads elsewhere. Developers pay to mention their products here, and thus the restrictions. Cheers.


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## Daryl (May 20, 2016)

scoredfilms said:


> Daryl,
> 
> I actually believe a commercial announcement thread is the perfect place for people to say "this is or isn't what we want" and compare it side by side to other products.


Nope, you're wrong. If someone has paid for the privilege of posting in Commercial Announcements, then it is their thread. There shouldn't be discussions of competing products. If you want to do that, there are plenty of other places on this forum. This has been discussed many times. I guess you weren't around for all of that. Lucky you.


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## Sean J (May 20, 2016)

I've already learned today that my opinion is wrong and it seems no matter what the context is there is little value to giving it anyway. I'm not sure I need to hear it again by 3 more people. One would have sufficed. I try with my limited brain to help others the way I believe is effective and apparently VI-Control members see it differently and I'm clearly the one at odds here. So I've deleted those posts. After all, if I can't recognize an ounce of value or legitimacy in someone else's well-meaning opinion, them I'm the one who's not contributing anything appropriate or worth while to the conversation. After all, a forum is a place of discussion and Steinberg certainly doesn't have their own website or retail sites to advertise on. Given the fact that 90% of what I've posted on here has been been opposed anyway, perhaps 2 months has been 2 months too long. I wanted to say "take a chill pill" but apparently that advice should be self served.

-The Village Idiot


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## Zhao Shen (May 20, 2016)

scoredfilms said:


> I've already learned today that my opinion is wrong and it seems no matter what the context is there is little value to giving it anyway. I'm not sure I need to hear it again by 3 more people. One would have sufficed. I try with my limited brain to help others the way I believe is effective and apparently VI-Control members see it differently and I'm clearly the one at odds here. So I've deleted those posts. After all, if I can't recognize an ounce of value or legitimacy in someone else's well-meaning opinion, them I'm the one who's not contributing anything appropriate or worth while to the conversation. After all, a forum is a place of discussion and Steinberg certainly doesn't have their own website or retail sites to advertise on. Given the fact that 90% of what I've posted on here has been been opposed anyway, perhaps 2 months has been 2 months too long. I wanted to say "take a chill pill" but apparently that advice should be self served.
> 
> -The Village Idiot


It's not about opinions. Overture 5 may very well be 10x better than Dorico - I wouldn't know, I don't dabble much in notation. But there's a time and place for everything. Create a thread over in the Notation Speak forum and I guarantee you won't get as hostile of a response. The Commercial Announcements forum is for developers to announce new products and give us updates on features. Home of the hype train. Often for a large or controversial release there will be an associated thread in Sample Talk discussing its merits and weaknesses - it's really great and educational stuff, but this subforum is off-limits for competitor advertising.


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## prodigalson (May 20, 2016)

Sean, I mean this with absolute respect. 

Instead of playing the victim and tacitly implying the fault is everyone elses perhaps you could reflect on the fact that this is a niche community with many members, many of which have been members here for a very long time and as such naturally feel some pride and ownership of this shared space. When joining such a community it is often pertinent to first take your time to get "learn the room", to assimilate the customs of the indigenous population so to speak.


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## Sean J (May 20, 2016)

I get it. Announcement threads in a place designed for discussion should only include a discussion about the announcement and nothing competitively significant is welcome unless you split off into another group where it's deemed more appropriate. I'm not sure I'd say that's how life works when I walk out my door. But that's just my experience and opinion. But given that the room feels differently I'm fine removing my remarks. Believe it or not, I don't need to get my way. 

Thanks for the respect. I wasn't trying to play victim. I just reacted here after already having had a fuse lit by someone else prior. That was my mistake and I'll own it. We all know that it's best to say something when you aren't emotional. I just tend to forget it sometimes.


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## Rctec (May 20, 2016)

gjelul said:


> I just wished they'd make Cubase more stable instead


... I haven't had Cubase crash in years. I'm not writing this to brag or annoy you, but just to maybe suggest that you look at your whole setup and see if it's something else that makes the program crash...
Best,
-Hz-


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## Nick Batzdorf (May 20, 2016)

> I actually believe a commercial announcement thread is the perfect place for people to say "this is or isn't what we want" and compare it side by side to other products. rs,



Regardless of where the thread is, how does anyone know what "we" want, and how can you compare a product you've never seen side-by-side to anything?

More than that, why would you even give enough of a flying hoot to post about it if you're not interested?

It may be hard to imagine, but every product has human beings behind it. Generally their mission is not to come out with crap that people are really going to hate!


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## rpaillot (May 20, 2016)

Rctec said:


> ... I haven't had Cubase crash in years. I'm not writing this to brag or annoy you, but just to maybe suggest that you look at your whole setup and see if it's something else that makes the program crash...
> Best,
> -Hz-



It's due to third party plugins , mostly. Unfortunately the users dont have much they can do to improve third party plugins stability, except waiting for version updates .

I try as much as I can to use Cubase as a "midi only" sequencer and to not use any VST instruments inside it.
Except the audio effects ( again with economy.. not overload it )

Economy and gentleness is the key with Cubase

When I used to overload Cubase with VST instruments, individual outputs for each kontakt patch loaded , it crashed more often


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## Sean J (May 20, 2016)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Regardless of where the thread is, how does anyone know what "we" want, and how can you compare a product you've never seen side-by-side to anything?
> 
> More than that, why would you even give enough of a flying hoot to post about it if you're not interested?
> 
> It may be hard to imagine, but every product has human beings behind it. Generally their mission is not to come out with crap that people are really going to hate!



I'm a human being too. When several people voiced disagreement I got insecure and defensive. I constantly say that composers are emotional creatures. I'm better at handling it than I was a couple years ago. I just need polishing and I'll gladly admit I have more to learn than anyone else here. So I am very genuinely sorry for any offense caused.

To answer the question, I am more interested than I sound. I'm just an inarticulate idiot some days (today being quite a highlight). I just want to see midi performance and notation be more complimentary, which Daniel said wasn't as high a priority to them on the blog. So I tried to voice what I wanted to see from the product. As to whether I should have or any other part of what I've said, I'd rather move on. I hate dwelling in the past. I can't even listen to music I wrote more than a year old without cringing a bit. 

Cheers,
Sean


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## Harcourt (May 20, 2016)

I apologize for posting publicly about a competitors program in the incorrect forum, I should have sent a PM instead - sorry!


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## colony nofi (May 20, 2016)

scoredfilms said:


> I'm a human being too. When several people voiced disagreement I got insecure and defensive. I constantly say that composers are emotional creatures. I'm better at handling it than I was a couple years ago. I just need polishing and I'll gladly admit I have more to learn than anyone else here. So I am very genuinely sorry for any offense caused.
> 
> To answer the question, I am more interested than I sound. I'm just an inarticulate idiot some days (today being quite a highlight). I just want to see midi performance and notation be more complimentary, which Daniel said wasn't as high a priority to them on the blog. So I tried to voice what I wanted to see from the product. As to whether I should have or any other part of what I've said, I'd rather move on. I hate dwelling in the past. I can't even listen to music I wrote more than a year old without cringing a bit.
> 
> ...


Damn right we are an emotional lot. Its one of our most valued currencies when composing! 

I'm sure we can have a VERY interesting discussion in one of the other forums about all this. I know I've spent countless hours thinking along similar lines to you about workflow - and where the score fits in with the mockup. 

I'm personally excited about Dorico - the team behind it are second to none - and they have thought long and hard about every single design decision that has gone into the software. One only needs to read the blog to hear the passion and meticulous planning that has taken place.

They've chosen a particular direction that might not work for you (and me!) but I am strangely still excited. Probably because I'm interested to see how exchange between it and cubase will occur - and what direction they take with further integration in the future. Cubase/Nuendo score has been a source of much frustration for me for years... and I rarely prepare my own scores these days.

Brendan.


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## InLight-Tone (May 20, 2016)

S


Rctec said:


> ... I haven't had Cubase crash in years. I'm not writing this to brag or annoy you, but just to maybe suggest that you look at your whole setup and see if it's something else that makes the program crash...
> Best,
> -Hz-


Same here, solid as a rock, Windows though, seems Mac peeps have a harder time...


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## playz123 (May 20, 2016)

InLight-Tone said:


> S
> 
> Same here, solid as a rock, Windows though, seems Mac peeps have a harder time...


Nope, no problems here on Mac Pros since 2008. Never regretted moving from a PC for music apps.


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## Sean J (May 20, 2016)

colony nofi said:


> They've chosen a particular direction that might not work for you (and me!) but I am strangely still excited. Probably because I'm interested to see how exchange between it and cubase will occur - and what direction they take with further integration in the future. Cubase/Nuendo score has been a source of much frustration for me for years... and I rarely prepare my own scores these days.



Brendan,

I agree completely. I'm still very excited to see Dorico being developed. And hopefully it will come round to having solid integration with Cubase. That'd be brilliant. The only issue I have with that is that I've moved to S1 now as I've felt Cubase is falling behind. I won't get into that here, other than to say I can see the relevance to concerns over both products simultaneously, given that they obviously will have a sister relationship in some form or another. If C9 or C10 comes around to what I'm wanting out of a DAW, and integration is solid, then I'd probably return to Cubase and Dorico and enjoy the two together. Notion isn't my favorite product. And Dorico, outside of what I'm looking for, seems very promising. We'll just have to wait and see.

Respectfully,
Sean


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## gjelul (May 20, 2016)

Rctec said:


> ... I haven't had Cubase crash in years. I'm not writing this to brag or annoy you, but just to maybe suggest that you look at your whole setup and see if it's something else that makes the program crash...
> Best,
> -Hz-



Flattered to have Hz himself reply to my comment -- thank you  

I am indeed, very impressed with the features in 8.5, bought the program and thought no turning back. However, it became just too crazy with the crashes and spending hours troubleshooting instead of working... Maybe it is 3rd party products as some people are suggesting, maybe it is the fact that I am on a Mac... however, these issues are inexistent in another DAW on my same set-up. I am definitely keeping an eye on the new version they'll come up with. Hopefully, it will work better for me bcd the decision to move to Cubase is already made -- just a question of time to make that permanent. 

Thanks again Hz!


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## Erik (May 20, 2016)

I must have overlooked the sort of thread. To the OP and all members who were irritated: my apologies. I have removed the content of the post.


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## midiman (May 21, 2016)

Daryl said:


> There is no timescale for that yet.
> 
> 
> Currently the best way is either to tidy up the MIDI before exporting (quantising notes and note lengths) or to use the Score to MIDI function (if your score page is tidy). I also hope that there will be a better way in time, but for now I would think that the same limitations apply with Dorico. As far as copy paste from the key editor, you'd have to do the quantise thing for this to work anyway, so it wouldn't be much of a time saver.




I don't agree it would not be much of a time saver. The amount of sorting/fixing necessary to export a midi file is huge, and a lot of the tracks on a sequence are usually unnecessary in the orchestration, and they will just be a massive amount of tracks to export into a notation software, not making it a streamlined way for orchestrating. Instead if you were to use a copy and paste method, you would be able to orchestrate it in a "live" way, accessing only the tracks you wan't to use, or copy a few notes from one track and a few notes from another to build an instrument line on the notation software. From some tracks I may only need a few notes, and then from another track other notes, and so forth. This way I can build by orchestration fluidly by having constant access to any track I want from CUBASE, and just copy and paste whatever I need, in a much easier and flexible way, more streamlined and creative, than by doing a "locked" midi export, with way too many tracks (my template has 100's of tracks, which is not appropriate for a notation software). The quantizing is the least of my worries. That does not take much time to do... the feature I am talking about is all about the easy access to tracks in cubase, and immediate ability to do copy/paste, without midi exporting, as to avoid having a midi file export with 100 tracks, many of which I may not need, but I will need to spend the time quantizing and sorting before exporting.


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## tack (May 21, 2016)

rpaillot said:


> Unfortunately the users dont have much they can do to improve third party plugins stability, except waiting for version updates .


DAWs could do a _lot_ to improve robustness in this area. VSTs are by design capable of being reinstantiated with their persisted state restored. There is no reason a DAW couldn't optionally bridge each VST instance and handle crashes quite transparently to the end user (minus of course audio blips and some kind of user notification indicating a plugin crashed and was restarted).

Reaper, for example, lets you choose which VSTs you want to run in separate processes, but it doesn't handle crashes gracefully.


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## Daryl (May 21, 2016)

@midiman

I understand what you're saying, but I do all of that in Nuendo, creating dummy orchestration tracks, quantise in the Score Editor (or Key Editor, if it is complicated), do Score to MIDI and then I'm sorted.


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## Sean J (May 21, 2016)

midiman said:


> I don't agree it would not be much of a time saver. The amount of sorting/fixing necessary to export a midi file is huge, and a lot of the tracks on a sequence are usually unnecessary... to export into a notation software... Instead if you were to... access to tracks in cubase, and immediate ability to do copy/paste, without midi exporting, as to avoid having a midi file export with 100 tracks, many of which I may not need...



I agree with both you and Daryl on this. Like Daryl, I just create dummy MIDI tracks to export what I want for notation. I'd imagine that's much easier than copying data manually.

But who here hasn't revised a file after it was called "done"? Seriously... it feels a bit insane to clean up a score only to have to change it and clean it up the entire thing again. So I see the cross-system copy paste being a useful request for certain uses. I just think an export/import of MIDI or .cpr would be more effective for the whole picture. Where Daniel S. said they want Dorico to be as automatic as it can at feeling like a copyist is in the room doing work for you, hopefully the import functions will be innovative to that effect anyway, if only in a later release.

Cheers,
Sean


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## NYC Composer (May 21, 2016)

Rctec said:


> ... I haven't had Cubase crash in years. I'm not writing this to brag or annoy you, but just to maybe suggest that you look at your whole setup and see if it's something else that makes the program crash...
> Best,
> -Hz-


Not even crash on close or quit??

(That's the only time Cubase ever crashes on me, but I'm on C6.02.)


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## playz123 (May 21, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> Not even crash on close or quit??
> 
> (That's the only time Cubase ever crashes on me, but I'm on C6.02.)


Larry, I can honestly say I have never had Cubase crash when closing.....but I am aware others have indeed had that problem. I'm on 8.5 and have been using Cubase since the very first version. I have crashed it very rarely when I have perhaps done something I shouldn't, but not often.....and I have a ton of plugins and have run Cubase first on PCs then on a Mac. Don't know why I've been so fortunate; just lucky sometimes I guess.


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## RiffWraith (May 21, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> Not even crash on close or quit??



Do you have a _crash_ on exit, or a_ hang_ on exit? (two different things)


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## NYC Composer (May 21, 2016)

Frank-you HAVE been lucky, but that said, I am really really happy with the stability of Cubase...to the point that I don't ever really want to update  I prolly will eventually though.

Jeffrey-if it's a forever hang, what's the difference? The only way I can get the spinning ball to stop is to force quit-so I guess that's a hang, eh?


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## RiffWraith (May 21, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> Jeffrey-if it's a forever hang, what's the difference?



There is a diff. But the spinning ball is a new one to me.


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## NYC Composer (May 21, 2016)

One more bit of OT and back to Dorico-Cubase basically never crashes during actual use, and I have auto-save on backing up every 15 minutes. Saved my butt numerous times.

Meanwhile, I hope Dorico sets a new standard for ease of operation. As I mentioned in the other forum, I'd love to see a scoring program with its MIDI import function using artificial intelligence-A.I. that takes really good or trainable guesses at things like length of notes, variable quantize, etc-anything that would make it easier to spit out parts from MIDI with the least amount of fuss.


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## Vik (Aug 10, 2016)

This looks.... interesting.





(It's from the newest YouTube clip about Dorico, here):


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## toomanynotes (Aug 13, 2016)

Vik said:


> This looks.... interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sausage fest?


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## ag75 (Aug 21, 2016)

Is anyone in here Beta testing this yet?


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## Daryl (Aug 22, 2016)

ag75 said:


> Is anyone in here Beta testing this yet?


If they were, they probably couldn't tell you, as they would be under and NDA and sometimes these even include telling people that they are under and NSA...!


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## Lassi Tani (Sep 27, 2016)

New interview from Daniel Spreadbury: http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2016/09/27/preview-steinberg-dorico-with-daniel-spreadbury/

It seems it can use VST instruments! So basically I can use any VST instrument I have, and use it for Dorico playback. And it also uses Expression Maps!


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## Daryl (Sep 27, 2016)

sekkosiki said:


> New interview from Daniel Spreadbury: http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2016/09/27/preview-steinberg-dorico-with-daniel-spreadbury/
> 
> It seems it can use VST instruments! So basically I can use any VST instrument I have..


Yes, but notice that it is VST3 only, so if you are using a VST2 instrument and it's not on their VST2 whitelist, you could be in for a rocky, unsupported ride.


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## Lassi Tani (Sep 27, 2016)

Daryl said:


> Yes, but notice that it is VST3 only, so if you are using a VST2 instrument and it's not on their VST2 whitelist, you could be in for a rocky, unsupported ride.



Oh shoot. Thanks for the information. I'll still try it, you never know, it might just work like magic, like everything else in Cubase and the new Kontakt version, no crashes, or problems at all, never


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## jamwerks (Sep 27, 2016)

Great to see that piano roll editor. Promising for anybody having to work with both daw's and live performers. Says good things about where Dorico and Cubase are headed. Clear they aren't catering to the masses like Apple-Logic-Garageband, but to professionals!

As for the VST3 issue, wouldn't just hosting stuff in VEP VST3 solve any problems?


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## samphony (Sep 27, 2016)

Or you get VEPRO and you're all set 


Daryl said:


> Yes, but notice that it is VST3 only, so if you are using a VST2 instrument and it's not on their VST2 whitelist, you could be in for a rocky, unsupported ride.


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## Vik (Sep 27, 2016)

Does anyone know if it can record MIDI (live, from a keyboard) yet?


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## Noam Guterman (Sep 27, 2016)

Vik said:


> Does anyone know if it can record MIDI (live, from a keyboard) yet?


I don't know but I would be absolutely surprised if not


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## wcreed51 (Sep 27, 2016)

Not yet.

Also, it will be able to use some VST2's like Konkakt and Play


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## Paul T McGraw (Sep 27, 2016)

Interesting interview. Once again I get the impression that the primary focus is high level engraving. Playback seems an afterthought at best.


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## Prockamanisc (Sep 27, 2016)

Vik said:


> Does anyone know if it can record MIDI (live, from a keyboard) yet?


It seems like they're saying it will be implemented in a future version, and the first version is really going to be about implementing a solid groundwork from which to build on. It still seems really good, specifically that it has basically a key editor that leaves the notation untouched, for detailed implementation of sample libraries.


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## Prockamanisc (Sep 27, 2016)

I implemented "implemented" prodigiously. It helps to re-read things before you post them.


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## Vik (Sep 27, 2016)

Prockamanisc said:


> it still seems really good, specifically that it has basically a key editor that leaves the notation untouched


I read somewhere that one could edit stuff in the key editor without affecting what happens with notation, and that sounds like a nice option. OTOH, sometimes it's easier to edit music in a piano roll style window than in a score editor (eg because one can see the exact lengths as start positions of each note, whether they overlap or not etc), so I assume "leaves the notation untouched" only exists as an _option, _not as the only choice.


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## jamwerks (Sep 28, 2016)

Prockamanisc said:


> ...specifically that it has basically a key editor that leaves the notation untouched, for detailed implementation of sample libraries


Yes that kind of thinking is very exciting. I wouldn't be surprised to also see a streamlined version of Dorico already as the score editor in Cubase 9 this December. And eventually being able to export from Cubase towards Dorico in a common non-midi language. 

Great to have a company like Steinberg pumping stuff out for professionals. Apple & Avid have turned out to be a disappointment imo...


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## dcoscina (Sep 28, 2016)

I must be the only one who doesn't care for the font Steinberg uses for its notation...aesthetically not my thing.


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## Vik (Sep 28, 2016)

You could probably just replace with another font.


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Sep 29, 2016)

Hello,



dcoscina said:


> I must be the only one who doesn't care for the font Steinberg uses for its notation...aesthetically not my thing.



Do you mean the current font in Cubase score editor or the font showed on the video? Obviously the font used on Dorico will be SMuFL, with SMuFL you can use different types of fonts, and because it is open source many others can contribute with new ones: http://www.smufl.org

Best regards,
GN


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## dcoscina (Sep 29, 2016)

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah it's more the graphic on the score editor itself. It seems very sharp compared to the way Logic or even DP displays it's notation. Don't get me wrong- big Cubase Pro fan and user here. Like I said, it's just an aesthetic preference for me, not a slag on Steinberg who's products I love.


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Sep 30, 2016)

Hello,



dcoscina said:


> Yeah it's more the graphic on the score editor itself. It seems very sharp compared to the way Logic or even DP displays it's notation. Don't get me wrong- big Cubase Pro fan and user here. Like I said, it's just an aesthetic preference for me, not a slag on Steinberg who's products I love.



Actually, Logic implemented support for SMuFL not so long ago, like two updates or so, if my memory serves me well. I just created the Feature Request to implement SMuFL into Cubase score editor, although, it is probably duplicated or already on the list  

Best regards,
GN


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## Vik (Sep 30, 2016)

I use Dorico's Bravura font in Logic, IMO it looks clearly better than Logic's built in font.


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## sp_comp (Sep 30, 2016)

What I find interesting about the interview video, at least from a filmmaker's perspective, is that there is not a speck of actual music in the whole 7 minutes. No underscore, no stings or anything. Interesting considering the product


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## Guillermo Navarrete (Oct 12, 2016)

Hello all,

We have a date: FYI,

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/dorico-available-from-october-19.56507/#post-4001362

Best regards,
GN


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