# Mixing/Mastering Plugins



## Lawson. (May 13, 2015)

I've been told by some people that while my composing is great, my mixing/mastering needs some work. Are there any plugins you guys can recommend? Waves is a bit out of my budget, but I've heard Izotope 6 is quite good.

I currently have the stock plugins with DP8/Logic 9 and Melda's free plugin bundle. Is this good enough, or do I need to buy some specialty stuff?

Thanks.


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## RiffWraith (May 13, 2015)

Mastering is something that is best left to someone who does mastering for a living. It is an art form unto itself, and at the very least, you get a second pair of ears to "weigh in" on your project. It's of course a lot more than that, but the point is, that even if you have a good sense of what a mastered mix should sound like and how to get there, a seasoned pro can take your mix to the next level.

That said, I master most of my own work, as it is just not feasible to spend money on the mastering of library tracks. 

Mixing is something that you get better at over time, and by doing. The plugs you use have very little to do with how well you mix. It's not as if you have a good mix, slap on a good plug-in" and all of a sudden, you have a better mixed version of your song. It doesn't work that way. Whatever plug-in(s) you get your hands on, and whatever amount of money you spend, won't matter if your mixing chops are not up to par. And they won't simply get up to par just because you have purchased better plug-ins. It doesn't work that way either; purchasing the "best and most expensive plugs" will not make your tracks sound better. YOU will make your tracks sound better, and if YOU do not yet possess the skillset to do that, no plug-in is going to help you.

Sorry to seem harsh, but I hate coddling people about this. 

All that being said, you DO need good tools to work with. If not, the best mixers and MEs would use nothing but stock plug-ins. And there ARE plug-ins out that are really good... I have no idea what the cost is, and what your budget is, but have you considered UAD? The 33609 comp is VERY good. Not as good as the hw (yes, I own one), but still very good. Many people are big fans of the Neve EQ offered by UAD. Many people like Ozone, but I hear a lot about people using presets - which is scary. Is there a demo avail you can try? I am also a big fan of the Sonalksis EQ (own that as well). It's not necessarily better than any other sw EQ on the market (it's all math after all) but I enjoy the workflow and have grown accustomed to working with it. A couple of instances on a group ch or even the MF can help a lot if you KWTF you are doing.

How's your room? Pro-ish, in terms of dimensions, treatment, etc.? Because the first thing in the path to getting your mixes to sound more pro, is your mixing environment. If you are in a space that is less than ideal, I would highly recommend you throw some money at that, as opposed to leaving it as-is, and spending money on plug-ins.

Cheers.


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## Lawson. (May 13, 2015)

Wow, thanks for the detailed response!

You didn't seem harsh at all. I've come across lots of people who think that having great libraries will make their mediocre compositions sound great (plus they don't know about massaging MIDI data), so I get what you're saying about mixing plugins. Not trying to say that I'm the greatest at that stuff; just mean that at least I realize what I'm up against!

I forgot to put this in the original post, but I don't know anything about mixing/master whatsoever. I just try to mess around with EQs and limiters and stuff until something happens by chance that sounds good. It seems to be a whole different skill set that needs it's own attention and care.

I'm trying to avoid spending over $400. I just got some extra cash and instantly thought of either a new library or some plugins. Would it be a better to learn on stock plugins (are they at least reasonably good, or just plain terrible?), and then when I start needing more advanced stuff upgrade, or start big and work my skill level up? I could afford both the 33609 and the Sonalksis, but would I actually get my money's worth at my current level? 

My room isn't bad but it isn't ideal, either. It's relatively dry (I have curtains and a rug), with my monitors sitting on my desk about 5 inches away from a wall, and cabinet lighting about 20 inches above it. No special sound treatment at all. I did a rough measurement and it's about (in feet) 19x12x10.

Thanks again!


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## clisma (May 13, 2015)

Hey Lawson, I was in your same situation just a few short years ago in regards to mixing and it's a gradual improvement. There are a few things that might get you there more quickly however, and they helped me:

Not to send you to another site/forum, but please do check out www.soundonsound.com. Peruse their many, many brilliant articles on mixing (how to use EQ, compression, limiting, reverb; what to listen to, how to listen, etc.). You don't have to subscribe to the magazine to get these, a lot are free of charge on their site, but I highly recommend the publication as a business expense - very very good.

Stock plugins are perfectly fine and great music is being mixed on them daily. The room and the speakers are far more important - the best plugins in the world are not going to be objective if your ears are hearing the wrong thing.

- First off, you mention $400.o If your room is not ideally set up, and you would know this by measuring it sonically, the best thing to do would be to minimize its impact. I'd spend my money on good mixing headphones (like DT880 or HD650) - this will help you listen with more attention to detail and separation by giving you a relatively flat frequency response. Or you can spend a lot more money on treating your room acoustically (which you can also do over time).

- You have your speakers 5 inches from the wall, that's not ideal due to reflections which will make it more difficult for you to hear things properly. Try to move them away from the walls, then see if you can put up some acoustic panels at the mirror points between speakers and walls.

- Also, are your speakers decoupled from your desk? Do you have them setup so that you're getting the best possible stereo imaging? And are you minimizing bass reflections off the desk's surface?

All these things, in my opinion, should be considered before spending any amount on extra plugins besides the stock ones, because they can truly help you hear your mixes better. After these steps it's all about practicing a lot - and listening back to your results on many different devices so you can get the full picture.


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## Joram (May 14, 2015)

There is a lot to say about mixing and mastering and the use of different plugins. However, most DAWs have good stock plugins which help you to do a decent mix. As mentioned before: many mix engineers use these much more often than you would expect. Before spending loads of money on plugins I would strongly advise to invest in monitoring + room treatment and take time to really know your plugins well. 

If you have a good room and appropriate monitors and you want to focus on mixing find out what you are missing in your collection of plugins. Test and try before you buy!

For serious mixing it is helpful to have three-four different flavors of eq and compression. It can also be a good thing to invest in good distortion/saturation plugin: iZotope's Trash2 or Soundtoys' Decapitator are good-souding and versatile. Regarding reverbs, I would throw in some money here because often the stock plugins are quite limited. I think Liquid Sonics' Reverberate is a very good convolution reverb for a very good price and there a many impulse responses available. Valhalla VintageVerb, which has a distinct classic sound, is a steal too. 

When it comes to mastering: I almost never master my own mixes because I think a fresh pair of ears and and a experienced mastering engineer can bring the music and the mix to a new level. Nevertheless, when it is not really necessary to spend money on a dedicated ME you will be able to make a good master with stock plugins and a good limiter (Fabfilter Pro L, Brainworks bx_limiter). Multitools like iZotope Ozone (which I sometimes use myself) are pretty good but you need to spend time to make them work in your benefit. Too often I heard home-brewed masters which sound worse than the master mix (louder but worse!).


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## bryla (May 14, 2015)

Without repeating what has already been said – of which I agree with everything – I use a combination of Ozone and all the FabFilter plug-ins for mastering, when I'm doing my own, and I can highly recommend that combo. I don't have Ozone Advanced, so I need to work around it when using it in between FF stuff, but it's perfectly doable and what I mostly use FF for is the limiter at the end of the chain and the EQ before the chain or just before the limiter.


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## ghostnote (May 14, 2015)

Fabfilter + TokyoDawn = All you need


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## EwigWanderer (May 14, 2015)

One of the best places to learn more about mixing and using different plugins is:

*Into The Lair by Dave Pensado*

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFC57D274A1E94943


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## Joram (May 14, 2015)

Michael Chrostek @ Thu May 14 said:


> Fabfilter + TokyoDawn = All you need


Tokyo Dawn is a great free eq.


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## rayinstirling (May 14, 2015)

It has been touched on already but here is my personal experience.
In the ten years I've been using the room I'm sitting in now to create/ process audio material the biggest difference made to the task cost absolutely nothing.
I treated the satellite speakers in my near field audio system as being the most important pieces of hardware in said room.
Adjusting the positioning in spacing, distance and height relative to my listening position and that of their distance from walls then playing back favorite CD tracks of differing genre until I found the sweet spot where these tracks just opened up to a higher level of clarity, space and the broadest appreciation of the full frequency spectrum available from them.
Before creating or processing one second of my own or others music I now have a real reference to work towards. I now have a chance of using some tool to tweak the music of which I'm working on to a similar level of quality. We all first and foremost have to rely on our ears to hear what works and only then can we learn to use tools to tweak our efforts to that end. If you can't detect what may be wrong how can you start to fix it?
Spending money on room treatment and loads of plugins will only make a difference when you can hear the difference and know how to address problems.
Headphones? I have them, I use them while checking but I believe I've less chance of going deaf not using them.

Just my opinion of course.

Ray


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## muk (May 14, 2015)

Joram @ Thu May 14 said:


> (louder but worse!).



Wait, is that even possible?

I kid, I kid!


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## Vin (May 14, 2015)

I wholeheartedly recommend you to buy this book: http://www.amazon.com/Mixing-Secrets-Small-Studio-Senior/dp/0240815807?tag=honestlyhones-20 (http://www.amazon.com/Mixing-Secrets-Sm ... lyhones-20)


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## Joram (May 14, 2015)

EwigWanderer @ Thu May 14 said:


> One of the best places to learn more about mixing and using different plugins is:
> 
> *Into The Lair by Dave Pensado*


Yes, but keep in mind that it is a sponsored show.


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## EwigWanderer (May 14, 2015)

Joram @ 14th May 2015 said:


> EwigWanderer @ Thu May 14 said:
> 
> 
> > One of the best places to learn more about mixing and using different plugins is:
> ...



I wasn't aware of that. But still you can learn great techniques from Dave no matter what plugins he uses (or are told to use).


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## sinkd (May 15, 2015)

Lawson,

I wouldn't buy anything just yet. You say you have DP and Logic: There are very good plugins included with both of those DAWs. Don't buy another eq until you really know how to use what you've got. The Logic multiband compressor is great--learn it first. I also like DPs dynamic eq, but it has it's limitations. The included MW EQ is just fine for 90% of tasks.

My $.02

DS


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## jaeroe (May 15, 2015)

As people have stated, learn what's in your DAWs first. The concepts are all the same. 

Go for the goose that lays the golden egg instead of just 1 egg. So, re learning about mixing you'll learn far more by sitting with someone who does it well. If you know any decent engineers consider hiring that person to mix 1 piece of music for you, preferably at your place - see if you can work out a deal where they're walk you through the process. Most people are really good about this. You're just paying them for their time either way. When you can afford to, you'll hire them. When you can't, you'll do the best you can and be getting better. You can also hire someone to help setup a template for you with a quick mix in mind. If there are certain sounds you use a lot, the engineer can help work all that out for you.

If you don't know someone, ask around. But, you'll learn a lot this way.


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## JohnG (May 15, 2015)

sinkd @ 15th May 2015 said:


> Lawson,
> 
> I wouldn't buy anything just yet. You say you have DP and Logic: There are very good plugins included with both of those DAWs. Don't buy another eq until you really know how to use what you've got. The Logic multiband compressor is great--learn it first. I also like DPs dynamic eq, but it has it's limitations. The included MW EQ is just fine for 90% of tasks.
> 
> ...



I agree. 

To be sure, for personal satisfaction and out of stubbornness, I like to have a super-duper mix. I bought and use UAD plugins. 

That said, there are three common scenarios we face as composers that I think argue that using "regular" stuff is usually fine, certainly for demos, preliminary client review, and often even for final mixing.

1. *Serious gigs have engineers involved* -- Some situations get a ton of scrutiny, like studio pictures, some video games, and trailer music intended for theatrical release for major motion pictures. So, for those it could be helpful (if one knows how to use them well) to own the best mastering hardware and software.

However, when I've had that kind of work (trailers and games, at least), the producers are willing to pay to use engineers as mastering guys anyway (or I hire one), so there is no pressing reason to own it myself. Plus, I don't know the details of how to use it the way those guys do and they always think of things I wouldn't. 

2. *Clients can't hear the difference and don't care* -- Even for some "real" jobs, including network TV shows, it's quite common that MP3s are used in final productions. So much for microscoping the mix! Even if they do use WAV files, by the time it's tortured through all the plugins on the dub stage and broadcast, the finer points of the mix and mastering may no longer be recognisable. For TV, I have hired an engineer sometimes when I didn't like my own mix, but it is not uncommon, when I ask clients what they think of the new mix, for them to stare blankly and tell me they can't hear any difference (that matters to them) between my mix and the engineer's. You could hear it, I can hear it, but the clients don't detect any meaningful difference.

3. *End users can't tell a difference* -- Outside of film and media, a lot / most music seems to be consumed over a bluetooth connection and / or through earbuds and / or streamed online. So, goodness knows what shape it's in by the time it reaches the listener's ears. In my view, that is another reason not to over-think mixing.


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## Lawson. (May 15, 2015)

Wow, thanks a ton for all of the responses, guys!

I think I'm going to start going through different tutorials and videos (thanks for the Sound on Sound, In The Lair, and book suggestions btw) on how to mix, and learn to use my default plugins. Also, I'm going to figure out my room situation and see if I can get the optimal sound. My monitors are BX5 d2s, which are budget but seem to work pretty well. I don't have the money currently to upgrade.

Thanks again!


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