# MIDI over LAN questions. VE PRO vs Bidule/ipMIDI?



## Casey Edwards (Jan 29, 2012)

I've got a hypothetical build sitting on hold, but first I wanted to ask some questions to educate myself so I don't waste any money here.

I have an i5 machine currently using Bidule via ReWire and it's fantastic. However, I just built a new template and it's running out of room quickly and need to consider a slave computer (hence the new i7 build.) 

What are all items needed to make this MIDI over LAN thing possible? Does the slave computer need a separate sound card? My Presonus Firestudio Project has 2 firewire ports, is that good enough? Does it go straight from the router or do I need a separate switch with certain ethernet cables?

Then there is the issue of VE PRO vs Bidule. I know Mike Barry has promoted Bidule via ipMIDI several times and all my previous templates are built in Bidule and they are great. However, if VE PRO is that much of a game changer I may have to consider it.

I use Cubase 5 on Windows 7 64 bit. Anything else I may be forgetting to consider please fill me in! Thanks guy.


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## gsilbers (Jan 29, 2012)

there is a demo for VEP. try it in one computer so u get a feel on how it would work on another one. 

its midi AND audio. so no more interfaces or nothing. just install in both computers. 
add it as a VST in your DAW and u tell it to connect to the other computer (or same computer if u want to) and load the samples in your slave computer. 

doesnt get any neater than that.


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## Casey Edwards (Jan 29, 2012)

I know there's a demo. I'm looking for requirements to make my two PC's communicate with each other with the smallest latency. I've seen a lot of talk about Gigabit ethernet cables and such. Does this require a separate switch to connect the two computers? I don't want to dl the demo until I know I have what it takes to set it up between 2 computers.


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## gsilbers (Jan 29, 2012)

Casey Edwards @ Sun Jan 29 said:


> I know there's a demo. I'm looking for requirements to make my two PC's communicate with each other with the smallest latency. I've seen a lot of talk about Gigabit ethernet cables and such. Does this require a separate switch to connect the two computers? I don't want to dl the demo until I know I have what it takes to set it up between 2 computers.



dont worry about that. you can even connect both computers with an ethernet cable w no hub/router. 

nowadays a lot of routers are gigabite so it will work fine. 

thats the good thing about VEP . it made things really easy.


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## jleckie (Jan 29, 2012)

Go for VePro- don't even think bout it the rest.

All the rest is like living in the Jurrasic era working with stone knives and bearskins.


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## Frederick Russ (Jan 29, 2012)

Only in a situation where the slave is Mac will you probably need to consider a sound card. On PCs, not so much unless you intend to pummel the machine with really dense orchestrations. Just get an ethernet cable and connect the two machine and try out the trial for VEPro5 - in PC land it should handle most of what you throw at it.

I believe VEPro4 or 5 qualifies as a game changer in response to your other comment in comparison to many other slave/MIDI hosts currently available (and this from someone who has used MIDI over LAN and Plogue Bidule for years).


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## Ryan Scully (Jan 30, 2012)

Frederick Russ @ Mon Jan 30 said:


> Only in a situation where the slave is Mac will you probably need to consider a sound card. On PCs, not so much unless you intend to pummel the machine with really dense orchestrations. Just get an ethernet cable and connect the two machine and try out the trial for VEPro5 - in PC land it should handle most of what you throw at it.
> 
> I believe VEPro4 or 5 qualifies as a game changer in response to your other comment in comparison to many other slave/MIDI hosts currently available (and this from someone who has used MIDI over LAN and Plogue Bidule for years).




Interesting Frederick - Glad I read this! Unless Apple makes an announcement regarding the Mac PRO refresh(or not) within the next few months I'm going to move to a 6 Core Mac PRO for my new DAW. I was also fascinated by the talk of using a new Mac Mini for a slave and connect via VE PRO 5. Do you think i would really need a new sound card for the mini in this setup? Sorry for the minor high jack Casey - been having similar thoughts myself recently.


Ryan


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## Casey Edwards (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks a lot guys, you're all awesome.

To continue the questions though, once I get this thing running how do you get VE PRO and Cubase to communicate, whether it be over LAN or on the same computer?

Also, will I be able to mixdown as if I'm using all plugins inside Cubase? When I use Bidule I have to either do a Realtime bounce or I just record the AUDIO in stems within my project THEN bounce to a mixdown.


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## gsilbers (Jan 30, 2012)

after you install VEP.

open the VEP plugin like it was a vst instrument in cubase. it will be just a dialog type box. 

then you open (or before) the VEP server application. this can be inside the same computer or in the slave computer. .

go back to the VEP plugin inside cubase...
the dialog pop box should show the IP address/computer name of where the VEP server. select it and hit connect. 
thats it. 
now your plugin is connected to the server. same deal if its inside or outside your computer. 

if you are in cubase the plugin will stream audio like it was a vst plugin. you just choose in the server side what u want that channel to be. 
(u load kontakt with synphobia for example in channel 1)
you can do offline boucing or realtime bouncing. 
or routed to an aux for sub groups and do whatever u like. its like its a regular vst inside cubase.


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## Casey Edwards (Jan 30, 2012)

gsilbers @ Mon Jan 30 said:


> after you install VEP.
> 
> open the VEP plugin like it was a vst instrument in cubase. it will be just a dialog type box.
> 
> ...



THANK YOU! This does sound like a dream. I appreciate your help a lot! My current i5 has 16 GB of ram and the i7 I built and want to buy has 32 GB, so I think that will handle pretty much anything I throw at it for quite some years!


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## Casey Edwards (Feb 1, 2012)

Okay guys, another question. What solutions are available for using ONE wireless keyboard and mouse combo across two PC's?


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## Frederick Russ (Feb 1, 2012)

prscully20 @ Mon Jan 30 said:


> Frederick Russ @ Mon Jan 30 said:
> 
> 
> > Only in a situation where the slave is Mac will you probably need to consider a sound card. On PCs, not so much unless you intend to pummel the machine with really dense orchestrations. Just get an ethernet cable and connect the two machine and try out the trial for VEPro5 - in PC land it should handle most of what you throw at it.
> ...



Hi Ryan - I've got two Mac Mini i7 quads w/SSDs & 12GB ram each as slave streamers but still found that I needed sound cards to port over audio instead of relying on ethernet. That said, I really hit them hard. So I stayed with Midi over LAN (MoL) and use two M-Audio ProFire Lightbridges (4 adat I/O each) and it gets the job done really well. 

If you're thinking a PC i7 might be better I'm actually inclined to agree particularly since it seems to be a bit better in the audio streaming over LAN department. Jose Herring put together a decent build for this purpose if you're thinking PC over Mac.


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## mikebarry (Feb 1, 2012)

Bidule deserves not to be shorted.

Mike and I both use it, lots of our other friends do also - Kevin Kliesch, James Venable and Kevin Manthei just to name a few.

Very reliable software.


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## Ryan Scully (Feb 1, 2012)

Frederick Russ @ Wed Feb 01 said:


> prscully20 @ Mon Jan 30 said:
> 
> 
> > Frederick Russ @ Mon Jan 30 said:
> ...




Great, Thanks for the info Frederick! I have been looking for tried user feedback on this kind of setup. For the time being I'm going to move to the 6 Core over the next few months and will keep my options open regarding a slave for streaming in the future. 


Ryan :D


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## Casey Edwards (Feb 2, 2012)

Still needing some help here. This question still stands unanswered:

What solutions are available for using ONE wireless keyboard and mouse combo across two PC's?

ALSO, if I'm going to use VEPRO on my master and slave computer do I need TWO vienna keys (eLicenser)?


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## wst3 (Feb 2, 2012)

you haven't suggested how many monitors you want to use... when I am using multiple computers I use two monitors on the main, and a single monitor for each DAW. At which point "Multiplicity" from Stardock is your friend. Each computer has it's own monitor, but you only need to plug in the keyboard and mouse to the main.

Then, when you drag your mouse "off" the main screen (you can choose direction) you start controlling the slave.

I find this to be intuitive...ymmv.

If you don't like this you can always go with a Keyboard/Video/Mouse switch (aka KVM). Finding one with support for dual displays is a bit of a challenge, but you could always have monitor one connect to the KVM switch and have monitor 2 connect only to the DAW.

Belkin makes a very nice KVM switch, but it ain't cheap. (http://www.belkin.com/wizard/%28S%28llz ... fault.aspx)

Cables To Go has their own brand of switch that works quite well. (http://www.cablestogo.com/categories.asp?cat_id=500)

You can also find IOGear switches at most of the big box retailers, and they work too. (http://www.iogear.com/kvm.htm)

All of these are available with or without extenders as well, if you want to get some additional distance<G>

Can't help you with the VEPro question - I'm still on the fence...


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## Daryl (Feb 2, 2012)

Casey Edwards @ Thu Feb 02 said:


> Okay guys, another question. What solutions are available for using ONE wireless keyboard and mouse combo across two PC's?


Remote Desktop?

D


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## Daryl (Feb 2, 2012)

Casey Edwards @ Thu Feb 02 said:


> ALSO, if I'm going to use VEPRO on my master and slave computer do I need TWO vienna keys (eLicenser)?


Yes, you need two dongles. Check the prices before you buy, as sometimes Steinberg keys are cheaper than Vienna Keys. Sometimes not.

D


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## jleckie (Feb 2, 2012)

SYNERGY

Works with MAC and PC flawlessly.

http://synergy-foss.org/


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## Casey Edwards (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate the help here. I'm sure once I get all this going I'll have a million other questions. I'm pretty stoked about VEPro.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 2, 2012)

To expand on this:



> Okay guys, another question. What solutions are available for using ONE wireless keyboard and mouse combo across two PC's?



What you really want is a large enough monitor so you can use screen sharing and dispense with the other junk - and by junk I mean KVM switches, extra monitors, and Synergy (and I don't mean to be rude to Jay, because it works well, but it's only sharing the keyboard and mouse).

Screen sharing means the remote computer appears in a window on your main computer's monitor, and when you activate that window you're controlling the other computer. So the slave computer behaves like it's simply another program running on your host machine. The only drawback is that it's a little more sluggish than a wired connection, but it's more than fine for basic things like loading samples.

Most versions of Windows have screen sharing built in, but if not then there's a magnificent piece of software - free - called TeamViewer (www.TeamViewer.com). It's very fast, and it also works across the internet. I use it on my iPad to access my desktop machine when I'm traveling. It also works on an iPhone, and of course Mac, Linux, and probably other things.

There are other screen sharing programs, but TeamViewer is my favorite. I use Windows Remote Desktop and the built in Mac screen sharing first, but otherwise TeamViewer is the shizzle.


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## Elephant (Feb 15, 2012)

+1 for Synergy. I use it to have my laptop keyboard control a desktop (no mice thanks) and it's cross platform. I can whizz the pointer over multiple screens.


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## SvK (Feb 15, 2012)

Just Tried Remote Desktop..

it KILLS midi over lan in VEpro.
Not to be confused with Vienna's midi solution.

Remote Desktop from Microsoft will nuke MOL within VEpro4. 

bummer

best,
SvK


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## SvK (Feb 15, 2012)

NICK Batzdorf

wooohoooo.
Team Viewer worx and does NOT kill MOL connections awesome.

thanx so much!

best,
SvK


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 15, 2012)

RDC kills MOL in VE Pro?

That's interesting. I did have problems with it in the past when trying to get Audio Impressions working here. Hm...


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## SvK (Feb 15, 2012)

Nick...

Yup


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## Jaap (Feb 16, 2012)

Using Remote Desktop with VEpro 5 and 2 other computers and actually totally no problems here. Heck it even works like a charm with the other computers being Vista and XP haha


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## Casey Edwards (Feb 16, 2012)

If anyone is interested, out of all the ones I've tried so far SYNERGY is the winner by far. It's the most intuitive and shows ZERO lag.


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