# Your Opinions of the Big Music Retailers (Before I Buy)



## Danos (Dec 3, 2020)

Hi,

I'm about to make a bunch of Hardware purchases (UA Apollo Twin X Duo, Great $1k+ Conderser Mic, Stand, Pop Screen, Pro Headphones..) and I would really like to get your opinions based on your experiences of the Right retailers to Do business with!

In the past, when I wanted a Guitar or Piano I went to Guitar Center and Sam Ash in NYC, tried them, and bought it. Was Great!

And now, I have a local NC Guitar Center (where of course I Can try out and buy an Electric Guitar), but people have also been recommending Sweetwater, Musicians Friend, and I see other retailers (ProAudioStar that got suspect reviews, Alto Music, etc). And of course MF seems to have Great incentives with their points and Bday gift and maybe 17%off and such, and I was thinking to go with them, UNTIL.. I read a ton of horrible reviews telling me to go anywhere else.

So I'd Love your opinions on Guitar Center, Sweetwater, Musicians Friend, or somewhere else if you want, on where I should avoid, and where I should Go and Can still get Top Quality Products and at least 15% off (Discount) for my Holiday purchases and get my Studio Going!

Thank you, Very much Appreciated!


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## davidanthony (Dec 3, 2020)

Once you're ordering over a few hundred dollars in equipment in a single order I would contact them all and ask for a package quote, but I've ordered from all of these places and here's how I personally rank them in terms of pure service (not the same as price, which I'll explain below).

Service:

1. Sweetwater
2. Guitar Center, Musicians Friend, Woodwindandbrasswind (these 3 are sister companies, run independently but they generally share inventory
3. Alto Music
4. Pro Audio Star

Why:

Sweetwater has made delivering "good" customer service part of their company culture. (I say "good" because some people actually hate the things they do, but YMMV.)

You are assigned one representative (they call them "sales engineers") for all your purchases with the company, they ship everything that is in stock from a central warehouse, it goes out rapidly, and they are well set up to handle things if something goes wrong (item goes missing or arrives defective, or you need to return). The downside is they have no rewards program, and I have found they are the least competitive when it comes to discounts. They don't have a clear price matching policy and discounts are generally up to the discretion of your sales engineer. My rep is a nice guy who has given me fair prices in the past, you can PM me if you want his info.

Note: the "engineers" are also instructed to reach out to contact their clients from time to time, see if they like the product, if you want anything else, etc. Some people love this, some absolutely hate it. I'm almost always busy when my guy calls but he just leaves a VM and that's that. Apparently you can tell them not to call anymore and they'll honor that.

I actually placed an order for an expression pedal from SW on Monday night, it was shipped out on Tuesday morning, and it arrived here in California this afternoon. This has been typical of my orders with them. Fast and easy.

GC, MF, WWBW carry a lot of products, and as volume sellers, they are much quicker and more aggressive with discounts, and they also have rewards programs. Because of this, I do the majority of my shopping from these 3. My last two "large" purchases from WWBW as I had a great experience with a sales associate working there, PM me if you want his email/phone. The downside is that things are a little less "automatic" -- they ship from multiple warehouses, sometimes have issues with stock, and I've read the returns process with these 3 is not as streamlined (I've never had to use it).

I've received WWBW orders as quickly as the next day when they ship from the California warehouse, and I placed one last Tuesday that shipped the next day but still hasn't arrived (they use UPS which tends to be slower here). So YMMV on speed.

Alto Music and Pro Audio Star are smaller shops and I have gotten amazing deals from both, but I've also read a ton of horror stories about their stock not being accurate, orders not arriving quickly, etc. Basically I only use them if I'm getting a _significant_ $ discount over the companies listed above and I don't need the products quickly.

Hope this helps!


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## José Herring (Dec 3, 2020)

Sweetwater and Vintage King. 

Sweetwater is better for smaller home studios, musicians, composers with their own studio. 

I usually deal with a guy named Mac who personally contacted me several years ago actively courting my business even when I had no business to court. I always remember the ones that cared enough to invest time in me even when there wasn't an immediate pay off. 

If you're a baller then Vintage King or Guitar Center Pro. With GCP they are only interested in high volume but they offer great discounts. But in my experience they will practically hang up the phone on you if your order doesn't meet a minimum dollar threshold and that threashold was high. Back in the day I wanted to order 3 rather expensive hardware samplers and the lady I was speaking to practically laughed in my face. That was like $9000 worth of business. Not interested. Her minimum was 5 units. I don't know with Covid and GC subsequent Chapter 11 maybe there more amenable. But screw them after that. 

I have no experience with Vintage King but they seem to be kind of catered to the serious project studio guy. But given what you want to buy it might be a good option because they have some real pro level stuff for mics, preamps and outboard. They kind of start where Sweetwater ends off. There is some overlap and you can get some real quality stuff at Sweetwater but nowhere near the selection on the highend as Vintage King.


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## davidanthony (Dec 3, 2020)

José Herring said:


> Vintage King.



Good call! Completely forgot about Vintage King, and Westlake Pro. I've had good experiences buying in-person with both and would add them to your quote list, OP.


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## Rory (Dec 3, 2020)

I try to purchase sound gear from an independent retailer that I've been dealing with for a long time and that is extremely knowledgeable and helpful. Most of the time there is no significant difference in price between this retailer and the large online retailers, which removes the incentive to buy online.

If you want to purchase online, I'd suggest that you add B&H to your list. It really understands online retailing, has knowledgeable staff, very good customer service, free shipping on orders over $49 and a 30 day "no questions asked" return policy (currently extended to February 1 due to Christmas) that rivals Amazon's. B&H also has a store credit card that rebates sales tax. As avoiding sales tax becomes increasingly difficult in the U.S., this is a real competitive advantage.

B&H also regularly offers discounts at prices that you are unlikely to see elsewhere. At this point, B&H is so big that manufacturers see it as a vehicle through which to quickly move excess inventory, or as part of a strategy to put together what is essentially a group buy.


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## patrick76 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sweetwater is good. Guitar Center sucks. I’ve ordered from Alto Music and Pro Audio Star also. They seem decent to me. I bought something from Alto Music (used) where the description was a bit off and they issued a refund with no problem.


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## Danos (Dec 3, 2020)

davidanthony said:


> GC, MF, WWBW carry a lot of products, and as volume sellers, they are much quicker and more aggressive with discounts, and they also have rewards programs. The downside is that things are a little less "automatic" -- they ship from multiple warehouses, sometimes have issues with stock, and I've read the returns process with these 3 is not as streamlined (I've never had to use it).
> 
> Alto Music and Pro Audio Star are smaller shops and I have gotten amazing deals from both, but I've also read a ton of horror stories about their stock not being accurate, orders not arriving quickly, etc. Basically I only use them if I'm getting a _significant_ $ discount over the companies listed above and I don't need the products quickly.
> 
> Hope this helps!



Thank you!

It does help. Yeah, I was set to Go with MF because of the perks (Bday money and rewards) and read toooons of bad dealings and was like "Whoa". And that returns were very bad. And now, I'm unsure..

I read that some things from ProAS were not maybe what they seemed, or maybe knockoff model/brand (not sure), or potentially different (quality) from what may have been ordered. I've read the "used" stories form MF customers apparently. And GC I've walked in and bought from and seemed okay but not sure. I assumed if you ordered a UA Twin X NEW, you got a NEW Twin X. And New Neumann Mics or WA Mics or Mojave, you got a Brand New model from most all of them. Now, not so sure.

Thank you for what you wrote!


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## Danos (Dec 3, 2020)

patrick76 said:


> Sweetwater is good. Guitar Center sucks. I’ve ordered from Alto Music and Pro Audio Star also. They seem decent to me. I bought something from Alto Music (used) where the description was a bit off and they issued a refund with no problem.



Curious why GC sucks in your opinion. I've bought from them before and curious what I may not know. Thanks


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## PaulieDC (Dec 3, 2020)

Sweetwater, Vintage King, B+H ( http://bhphotovideo.com (bhphotovideo.com) ) and Adorama. Sweetwater is the only online dealer I would buy a guitar from as well, bought my Taylor 618e V2 from them and it was so well packed I could have lobbed it off the roof without worry. Except I might crush the candy.


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## Danos (Dec 3, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> Sweetwater, Vintage King, B+H ( http://bhphotovideo.com (bhphotovideo.com) ) and Adorama. Sweetwater is the only online dealer I would buy a guitar from as well, bought my Taylor 618e V2 from them and it was so well packed I could have lobbed it off the roof without worry. Except I might crush the candy.



Funny because I'm planning to buy another Electric Guitar as well! But I NEED to try it, FEEL it and KNOW, Yeah, this thing is Perfect for Me! And know by playing it of course. And I believe I Can only Do that here in NC mostly by going to Guitar Center (where they have Guitars of course). So for Guitar I Very much like your suggestion and am not sure how to apply the Sw Guitar ordering to me (unless I try, dig, and then order elsewhere on Sw). I like that they pack it so well.

And All of those other dealers, you feel you KNOW you're getting the Real $1k+ Conderser Mic (and not some repro or something)?

Thanks


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## davidanthony (Dec 3, 2020)

Danos said:


> Thank you!
> 
> It does help. Yeah, I was set to Go with MF because of the perks (Bday money and rewards) and read toooons of bad dealings and was like "Whoa". And that returns were very bad. And now, I'm unsure..
> 
> ...



Confident that Sweetwater would never send something used (unless you specifically ordered a floor model or B Stock, which they list clearly).

I think it's unlikely at the other shops, too, but I have read about it happening at ProAS with DJ equipment.

You can find the contact information for the manager at your local Guitar Center and ask them for a quote for pickup, too. Potentially best of both worlds.


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## purple (Dec 3, 2020)

Sweetwater because they ship a little bag of candy with everything.


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## patrick76 (Dec 3, 2020)

Danos said:


> Curious why GC sucks in your opinion. I've bought from them before and curious what I may not know. Thanks


Sure, I’ve had several bad experiences with them (and musician’s friend). The latest GC issue I had is I bought an “in stock” 421 sennheiser when everyone had that great sale on them. Could’ve bought it at other places for the same price, but I made the mistake of buying from GC. About a week later I got an email from them and all it said was my order was cancelled. I called them and they told me they didn’t have any more mics. I said when I ordered it said In Stock. Eventually I asked for some sort of discount after explaining that I would’ve bought it elsewhere for the discounted price if it had said it wasn’t in stock at GC. After much arguing he went to talk to his manager. He came back and told me they would give me a discount of 7% on a similar mic. Mind you the discount on the 421 was about 50%. We argued endlessly and eventually I asked to talk to his manager. He came back and said the manager won’t talk to me but I could get a discount. Basically to end this long story, if they ever get in the 421s again I’m supposedly owed a discount. Of course I have nothing in writing and just someone’s word so I’m not holding my breath.


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## twincities (Dec 3, 2020)

patrick76 said:


> Basically to end this long story, if they ever get in the 421s again I’m supposedly owed a discount.


might be too late at this point, but i'd do my darnedest to contact sennheiser and explain that one of their official distributors gave you the run around. if anyone knows where else can sell you one, and ask them to extend the discount it's them. 

(i skipped the 421 deal as i don't use the ones i have often, but man did i get a lotta spare drum mics last year when they started these half off sales.)


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## Danos (Dec 3, 2020)

patrick76 said:


> Sure, I’ve had several bad experiences with them (and musician’s friend). The latest GC issue I had is I bought an “in stock” 421 sennheiser when everyone had that great sale on them. Could’ve bought it at other places for the same price, but I made the mistake of buying from GC. About a week later I got an email from them and all it said was my order was cancelled. I called them and they told me they didn’t have any more mics. I said when I ordered it said In Stock. Eventually I asked for some sort of discount after explaining that I would’ve bought it elsewhere for the discounted price if it had said it wasn’t in stock at GC. After much arguing he went to talk to his manager. He came back and told me they would give me a discount of 7% on a similar mic. Mind you the discount on the 421 was about 50%. We argued endlessly and eventually I asked to talk to his manager. He came back and said the manager won’t talk to me but I could get a discount. Basically to end this long story, if they ever get in the 421s again I’m supposedly owed a discount. Of course I have nothing in writing and just someone’s word so I’m not holding my breath.



Sorry. And same kind of dealings with MF? Not in stock it turns out or return issues? I had considered them but rethinking..

Thank you


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## jcrosby (Dec 3, 2020)

José Herring said:


> Sweetwater and Vintage King.


100%. These are the two best places I've dealt with online. Both places take their reputation pretty seriously. Couldn't picture either of these two places ever fucking around and sending B-Stock, even if by accident.

I did find a 2nd Roli on GC's site that wasn't in stock when I called the store. It'd sold over a month prior which is kind of ridiculous. I haven't had bad luck with them per se, but it does echo my experience with GC store locations. Unless you call some things that show up as in stock may actually not be available... It's not common necessarily but it's happened to me a few times.. 

MF I believe is the same company as GC, not 100% on that, maybe someone else knows...


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## patrick76 (Dec 4, 2020)

Danos said:


> Sorry. And same kind of dealings with MF? Not in stock it turns out or return issues? I had considered them but rethinking..
> 
> Thank you


GC owns MF I think. I’d recommend going with Sweetwater. I haven’t used Vintage King, but they seem to have a good reputation also.


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## PaulieDC (Dec 4, 2020)

Danos said:


> Funny because I'm planning to buy another Electric Guitar as well! But I NEED to try it, FEEL it and KNOW, Yeah, this thing is Perfect for Me! And know by playing it of course. And I believe I Can only Do that here in NC mostly by going to Guitar Center (where they have Guitars of course). So for Guitar I Very much like your suggestion and am not sure how to apply the Sw Guitar ordering to me (unless I try, dig, and then order elsewhere on Sw). I like that they pack it so well.
> 
> And All of those other dealers, you feel you KNOW you're getting the Real $1k+ Conderser Mic (and not some repro or something)?
> 
> Thanks


With Sweetwater, NO bait-n-switch, they are a total class act.

Also, B+H Photo and Adorama are the two premiere stores and websites that pro photographers have used for decades, and a few years ago they expanded into pro audio. When you order from them, they state clearly if you are getting the full USA-Warrantied version or not, because they do offer grey market for a discount IF you prefer that (although that's probably more for photo gear). Grey Markey helps their international customers. Anyway, both places offer super fast shipping, got my RME Babyface Pro from Adorama actually, but I've used both places for photo gear for over 20 years, not ONE issue, ever. Oh, bought my 128GB RAM from B+H, they do carry components as well.

For the record, if I were going to return to using Macs, without a doubt I'd purchase it from either place, because, they do such high volume Apple sales that they both get special configurations from Apple. For instance, they might offer the same MacBook Pro that is on the Apple site, except with double the RAM, AppleCare and Parallels preinstalled for $300 less than what Apple sells it for. If ANYONE is considering a Mac purchase, you'd be nuts not to peruse B+H and Adorama first.


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## PaulieDC (Dec 4, 2020)

Danos said:


> Funny because I'm planning to buy another Electric Guitar as well!


I played the Taylor 714ce at the local GC but really wanted the new (at the time in 2015) revamped 618e with the redesigned bracing. I was safe going with Sweetwater because the specs on Taylors are so tight, they are all going to feel pretty close given 3 or 4 of the same model. Really my choice was based on which wood grain I liked the most in the photos. Sweetwater, like others, does post actually shots of each guitar for sale, at least the everything above beginner instruments I think.


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## Danos (Dec 4, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> With Sweetwater, NO bait-n-switch, they are a total class act.
> 
> Also, B+H Photo and Adorama are the two premiere stores and websites that pro photographers have used for decades, and a few years ago they expanded into pro audio. When you order from them, they state clearly if you are getting the full USA-Warrantied version or not, because they do offer grey market for a discount IF you prefer that (although that's probably more for photo gear). Grey Markey helps their international customers. Anyway, both places offer super fast shipping, got my RME Babyface Pro from Adorama actually, but I've used both places for photo gear for over 20 years, not ONE issue, ever. Oh, bought my 128GB RAM from B+H, they do carry components as well.
> 
> For the record, if I were going to return to using Macs, without a doubt I'd purchase it from either place, because, they do such high volume Apple sales that they both get special configurations from Apple. For instance, they might offer the same MacBook Pro that is on the Apple site, except with double the RAM, AppleCare and Parallels preinstalled for $300 less than what Apple sells it for. If ANYONE is considering a Mac purchase, you'd be nuts not to peruse B+H and Adorama first.



Thank you!


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## Danos (Dec 4, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> I played the Taylor 714ce at the local GC but really wanted the new (at the time in 2015) revamped 618e with the redesigned bracing. I was safe going with Sweetwater because the specs on Taylors are so tight, they are all going to feel pretty close given 3 or 4 of the same model. Really my choice was based on which wood grain I liked the most in the photos. Sweetwater, like others, does post actually shots of each guitar for sale, at least the everything above beginner instruments I think.



Thank you!


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## khollister (Dec 8, 2020)

Sweetwater, VintageKing, Alto or Zzounds are my normal go-to places.


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## HeliaVox (Dec 8, 2020)

I'll throw in my 2 cents here. 
I love American Musical Supply.
I have been buying from them since 2001.
They have interest free payment plans for 3, 6, 8, or 12 months depending on the product. 
They give extended warranties, and any time I've had a problem (which has only been twice, and once was my fault) they have been super on top of it.
I wouldn't have had a majority of my musical equipment over the years if it wasn't for them.

As a no, I would stay far far away from Guitar Center. I've only bought from them twice and both times I was sent used equipment that was listed as new.

I've heard super good things about Sweetwater as well.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 8, 2020)

I would look at Reverb because the retailers are competing for your business there and many of them take offers on the products. I've been able to get some decent details there.

GC is nice in the sense that if you need to return it, you don't need to worry about return shipping (assuming you're near a store). Given they are going through bankruptcy now, not sure how that will change. Amazon is also good because they have a great return policy (long and in general free) - you can also just drop it off at an Amazon store if you're next to one.


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## Danos (Dec 8, 2020)

HeliaVox said:


> I'll throw in my 2 cents here.
> I love American Musical Supply.
> I have been buying from them since 2001.
> They have interest free payment plans for 3, 6, 8, or 12 months depending on the product.
> ...



Good to know, heard of AMS but knew nothing of them. I _have _bought a Guitar AT a retail location (in person), haven't done online stuff with them. Curious as I had thought of doing some mics with them (IF they reopen that is), what items did you buy there (at GC) online that were sent used (vs new)!? Appreciate it!

And Thank you, I'll give AMS a look too!


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For your consideration before giving SW your business....


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## Danos (Dec 8, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I would look at Reverb because the retailers are competing for your business there and many of them take offers on the products. I've been able to get some decent details there.
> 
> GC is nice in the sense that if you need to return it, you don't need to worry about return shipping (assuming you're near a store). Given they are going through bankruptcy now, not sure how that will change. Amazon is also good because they have a great return policy (long and in general free) - you can also just drop it off at an Amazon store if you're next to one.



I didn't know that, I knew Reverb sells, I thought it was just used items from sellers (individuals). I didn't realize that they ALSO sell New items (_and_ from established major retailers as well, if that's what you meant). I agree regarding the benefit of easy/free returning at GC (and I have just bought a New UA Apollo Twin X Duo and sadly also a mic stand, AKG mic, and wrong Thunderbolt cable that I NEED to return to GC when they reopen)! And Cool to know about Amazon (both things)! Thank you


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## Danos (Dec 8, 2020)

jmauz said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip (Good to know these things).


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## cuttime (Dec 8, 2020)

Another vote for B&H Photo Video. Awesome customer support. Just don't try to do business with them on the NY time zone Sabbath!


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