# Control vs Fader Automation with BBCSO and Logic Pro



## Glorfindavid (Apr 8, 2021)

Hi VI-Controllers,

My only orchestral library (so far) is BBCSO, which I like very much, and which I use in Logic Pro.

I can enter automation like expression, modulation, and dynamics as _control_ or _fader_ instructions. The attached images show the difference. I believe control events represent MIDI CC1 or CC11, for example, while fader events represent parameters of BBCSO. Maybe they're the same, but I don't know. They do seem to have the same effect, but I might be missing something.

Control events appear as vertical line highlights in track regions (fader events don't), while fader events have a slider to change value in the piano roll inspector (control events don't).

Other than these interface differences, is there a reason or advantage to using control vs fader automation? Thank you!

Warm Regards, David


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## derschoenekarsten (Apr 9, 2021)

This article sums it up better than I ever could. You're definitely right, "Control Events" are actual MIDI data, whereas "Fader Events" use a logic-proprietary format (that closely resembles MIDI). 

"Control Events" are written in the MIDI region itself, whereas "Fader Events" can _also _be used for track automation. 

As for the interface difference: when double clicking anywhere in the Draw window, an automation lane should appear.


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## Glorfindavid (Apr 9, 2021)

Thank you derschoenekarsten, the linked article does help clarify the difference between control (MIDI) and fader (Logic Pro) event types, though it doesn't quite speak to why one might be preferable to the other.

In most (all?) of the videos I've seen, composers mapped their hardware controllers to CC1 and CC11, among others, so maybe fader events just aren't that commonly used.


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## derschoenekarsten (Apr 10, 2021)

They're two different data structures used to address different parameters. MIDI is a global standard used by pretty much any soft- or (digital) hardware instrument (and some FX). The benefit of this is that you can control MIDI-enabled instruments (so almost everything) with a MIDI controller without ever having to think about mapping certain parameters. CC1 will always address modulation, no matter whether it's BBC SO or any given soft synth, CC10 will always address pan, and so on (that's also why some CCs are already named in Logic). Differences might arise when developers change the internal MIDI mapping for less common CCs.

As for the videos you're referencing, I'd say it's the other way around: Everyone uses CC1/11 as that's just the default mapping on the controller and in BBC SO (or any instrument really). As it's a unified standard, the automation data/MIDI region can be copied to any MIDI enabled instruments and will always have the same effect. Well kind of, as CC1 might be used to fade through velocity layers in BBC SO, whereas it might be mapped to e.g. mod wheel -> filter cutoff in a given soft synth. 

If you would write "Fader automation" addressing "Dynamics" (which is basically the same as writing MIDI CC1) in a region for BBC SO, that automation data will work for any instance of BBC SO (i.e. you can copy it to another track and it remains functional), but will be disabled when copied to a different VI, as the parameter the program is looking for just isn't there.

On the other hand, there are plug-ins that aren't MIDI enabled (mostly FX and processing plugs such as comps, eqs, ...), so the only way to automate those in Logic is via "Fader automation" (or whatever structure the DAW uses). Beware that there are also MIDI-enabled FX (e.g. vocoders), but those are less common.

Also, you can't use "Control events" for track automation, only for region automation. 

It absolutely makes sense to stick with the MIDI standard for controlling a virtual instruments' main functions, however, there will be things you just can't automate with CC. Not sure what parameters specifically this applies to in BBC SO though (if any). 

Hope this helps!


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 10, 2021)

@Glorfindavid you are correct that the automation lanes you are calling “fader events” are direct automation to BBCSO plugin parameters, while midi automation is linked to midi cc events, which can either be mapped to plugin parameters in the plugin using logicpro’s various facilities for mapping cc’s to plugin parameters; or sometimes the plugin may have implemented its own midi control in the plugin itself in which case no logicpro mapping is needed.

Which thing to use depends on each plugin and parameter which would be the best way to automate it. Note that the fader automation is capable of much higher resolution then midi. Midi cc’s have 128 discrete values in their range, fader automation directly to plugin parameters can potentially have thousands of discrete values, so more precision, which may or may not matter. Also when you use fader automation the actual automation lane in logicpro will have a meaningful name like “filter cutoff” or whatever; whereas midi automation will use a standard midi name if it exists which may or may not make sense for whatever you’re trying to automate.

All that being said, you probably don’t have a hardware controller that can automate fader values directly you are most likely using a midi controller. That is why logicpro provides ways to map midi controllers to specific plugin parameters and it will scale the ranges appropriately as you are recording your fader movements. If you do it this way then the actual automation lane will end up as fader automation which you can tweak by hand using the higher resolution, if relevant, and using the plugin parameter name to identify the lane rather then generic cc# references

I don’t think there is a right or wrong approach per say, just depends how you like to work


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## Glorfindavid (Apr 10, 2021)

It's most helpful, derschoenekarsten, and thank you again.

For those who, like me, initially wrote data as one type (such as fader) and want to change it to another (control), here's how to do so, as it isn't obvious from the interface.

In the List Editor > Events sidebar, some events, such as position or channel, change just by clicking and dragging one or more values in the table, but this doesn't work for status events.
Instead, select the rows to change (all of them, in my case), open Functions > MIDI Transform, and choose any of the presets. I chose Fixed Velocity, as it was the first in the list, but it doesn't seem to matter (attached Initial Transform image).
Using the gear icon at the bottom left, uncheck Hide Unused Parameters. Logic Pro pops up an alert that you're trying to edit a protected transform parameter set, and there's no choice but to agree (Unused Parameters image).
In the upper row, change the Status column select box to = Fader. In the lower row, change the same column to be Fix > Control (reverse these if going the other way). Change all other column select boxes in the lower row to be Thru, so no other settings will change (Final Transform image).
Selecting Operate Only at the bottom right changes the status of the selected rows. You can save this as a new preset, or close the MIDI Transform window.
Then just click and drag on channel, number, and value, or change the pull-down menu choice for Length/Info to whatever you want.
Whew! If someone has found a simpler process, you're most welcome to post it here.


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## Glorfindavid (Apr 10, 2021)

That's very helpful Dewdman42. So far, I've been drawing (or editing, more often) automation using the pencil tool after first entering notes, as it affords better control than using the touch strips on my humble NI M32 controller, so I haven't setup the controller-to-plugin mapping that you reference.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 10, 2021)

I wouldn’t get too hung up about fader events in the event list. Logic pro’s event list can show fader events for all sorts of things sometimes they are used for environment tasks and when you record the actual faders in logic pro’s GUI mixer, etc 

If you’re using the pencil then it’s a lot more simple, just use whatever is most convenient for the plugin. BBCSO likely has some of its own cc controls and does cc to parameter mapping inside the plugin and in that case you could use the cc. They may or may not always expose every plugin parameter for automation. I tend to prefer to use the direct plugin parameter automation when I can but in the case of common stuff like cc1 or cc11 you may have a habit of always using cc automation and in the case of BBCSO it might even be that there is no direct plugin parameter that does exactly what it’s own cc1 or cc11 controls do. Their built in cc controls could quite easily be adjusting several plugin parameters at once for all you know! It just depends on the plugin. Follow their guidelines


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