# 80s Synths - What am I missing?



## jimjazzuk (Nov 22, 2022)

Hey all,

I'm working on a pop-synth 80s style library album and I'm currently working with:

- NI Super 8, FM8, Monark (and the other NI Komplete synths)

- Cherry Audio Mercury-4

I've loved playing with what I've got, but I'm looking for something with a different character - any suggestions?

If there's anything on BF deals, that would be great!


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## Rudianos (Nov 22, 2022)

jimjazzuk said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm working on a pop-synth 80s style library album and I'm currently working with:
> 
> ...


Arturia Collection is now on sale a number of places. Many 80s synths there all high quality.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

You have your Moog, Roland and Yamaha FM sounds covered.

Now go for something slightly more exotic, which happens to be my latest purchase that I am madly in love with at the moment:

Xils Lab PolyKB III (on sale over at JRR and Plugin Boutique).

An early sampler like an Emulator or Fairlight might be necessary as well. So Rudianos suggestion for Arturia’s V collection makes a lot of sense too.


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## sostenuto (Nov 22, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Arturia Collection is now on sale a number of places. Many 80s synths there all high quality.


Have cool offer in Cart for V COLLECTION 9. Is the synth content same as the indiviual instruments ? 

Recalling Doc's advice re. Syntronik 2 not long ago 🤷🏻


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Is the synth content same as the indiviual instruments ?


Yes. It is just a bundle of all of their synths, modelled (e)pianos, organs and sample based Augmented series of instruments. Bloody brilliant value for money. They keep updating it too. Not merely bug fixes or Apple silicon hygiene type stuff either but REAL updates in terms of features, underlying models, resulting in actual sonic and workflow improvements. Arturia really leads the way in that regard. I’d argue an investment in their stuff is one of the most future proof solid things you can do.

UVI offer vintage synths as well, but those are all sample based, just like Syntronik’s and Soundpaint’s offerings. Cool. Sound great. But not REALLY programmable like the real deal. So true synth heads are better served with Arturia, Cherry Audio, Synapse Audio, U-he etc. imho.


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## MaxOctane (Nov 22, 2022)

You need u-he Diva, my friend. It's a perennial favorite around here, an absolute slam-dunk of a synth that will give you all the gooey 80s pop-synth you can imagine. Seriously, just get it (and a couple of preset packs too).


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## jimjazzuk (Nov 22, 2022)

MaxOctane said:


> You need u-he Diva, my friend. It's a perennial favorite around here, an absolute slam-dunk of a synth that will give you all the gooey 80s pop-synth you can imagine. Seriously, just get it (and a couple of preset packs too).


Thanks - do they usually do BF? I remember looking at this ages ago


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> They keep updating it too.


Edit: PAID updates


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## MaxOctane (Nov 22, 2022)

jimjazzuk said:


> Thanks - do they usually do BF? I remember looking at this ages ago


Worth waiting a few days to find out, but their previous BF sales have been limited to only a few products, not the full line.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 22, 2022)

I agree that, for late 80s, a vintage sampler would be big boon. But, you can get samples of a sampler sound if you don't want to spend out too much just for that. Plus, there is at least one cheaper Fairlight emulation.









QasarBeach CMI IIz by AdamStrange


Complete Fairlight CMI IIx reproduction




adamstrange.itch.io





Free samples:









Free Fairlight CMI Live Pack Bundle (10 Packs) | Sonic Bloom


The Fairlight CMI is legendary. So it wasn't very surprising that the Ableton Live Simpler presets I made with all the sounds of the model CMI IIx made quite a splash. Back then I released them as 10 individual Live Packs. To make it easier for those of you who'd like the get all of




sonicbloom.net













Ableton Goodies: Free Fairlight CMI Sounds, Skins, Amazing Reverb, and ... TETRIS! - CDM Create Digital Music


Want to relive the sweet sounds of the classic Fairlight instrument, because you love the 80s? Want to reskin Ableton so it doesn’t offend your aesthetic sense or blind you and bathe you in blue light when you’re onstage? Do you want a different reverb from a master sound designer and patcher...




cdm.link


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## sean8877 (Nov 22, 2022)

TAL-U-No-LX, Tal J-8, Tal Sampler are all great for 80's sounds. They also have everything on sale now:






TAL Software


TAL VST, AU, Audio Unit, AAX plug-ins for OSX and Windows




tal-software.com


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## AceAudioHQ (Nov 22, 2022)

Ana 2 is used by many 80s inspired artists


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

This one looks cool too:



Released 15 minutes ago


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## lux (Nov 22, 2022)

I'm also a good fan for Arturia, I think the V Collection nowadays covers quite a lot of 80's needs.

Also give a look in the free-zone, there's quite a few little gems like OB-XD, PG-8X, K1V

I'm personally a good fan also of Rythmic Robot Kontakt stuff, in particular Synthulator is fun.


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## ed buller (Nov 22, 2022)

This looks special !...I was luck enough to play on ABBA's GX1 in Stockholm a couple of years ago whilst doing a record there. Insane synth






Best

e


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## oeholmen (Nov 22, 2022)

jimjazzuk said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm working on a pop-synth 80s style library album and I'm currently working with:
> 
> ...


Do not miss https://tal-software.com/products/tal-u-no-lx


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

oeholmen said:


> Do not miss https://tal-software.com/products/tal-u-no-lx


But Jim already uses Super 8 which in essence also is the classic Juno


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

ed buller said:


> This looks special !...I was luck enough to play on ABBA's GX1 in Stockholm a couple of years ago whilst doing a record there. Insane synth
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you'll love the Cherry emulation then, as it was done by genius Mark Barton. They had access to two CS80s and a GX1 when building their model apparently. Listening to the demos right now - sound legit!


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I think you'll love the Cherry emulation the, as it was done by genius Mark Barton. They had access to two CS80s and a GX1 when building their model apparently. Listening to the demos right now - sound legit!


Yes, it sounds good and very, very, very '80s.


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## ed buller (Nov 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I think you'll love the Cherry emulation the, as it was done by genius Mark Barton. They had access to two CS80s and a GX1 when building their model apparently. Listening to the demos right now - sound legit!


Just downloaded it. It's gorgeous. I used one of HZ's CS80's on Chappie. We had to get it tuned ( open it up and go to work ) about twice a day !!






This plug in sounds very real. Just need to find an decent polyphonic aftertouch to go with it !

best

e


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## turnerofwheels (Nov 22, 2022)

sean8877 said:


> TAL-U-No-LX, Tal J-8, Tal Sampler are all great for 80's sounds. They also have everything on sale now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even their free Juno emulation VST TAL-U-No-62 sounds pretty great if you don't need preset storage. I remember using it back when I had a real Juno 106 to compare with and it sounded quite impressive. And once again, free.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Just need to find an decent polyphonic aftertouch to go with it !


I am seriously considering the Hydrasynth Explorer. Mini keys, battery operated. Nifty digital synthesis that actually sounds good. And best of all: poly aftertouch. (All Hydrasynths have it). For a bit over 500 euros.


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## jimjazzuk (Nov 22, 2022)

Wow, that new GX-80 sounds amazing!


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## Jaap (Nov 22, 2022)

Now it's time to visit your local vintage shop and buy a few liters of hairspray and think you are done!


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## jimjazzuk (Nov 22, 2022)

Sadly, these days I'd need a few litres of hair first!


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## sostenuto (Nov 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> You have your Moog, Roland and Yamaha FM sounds covered.
> 
> Now go for something slightly more exotic, which happens to be my latest purchase that I am madly in love with at the moment:
> 
> ...


No clue what I'm sayin' but does Oddity 3 fall in different discussion ?


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## Jaap (Nov 22, 2022)

jimjazzuk said:


> Sadly, these days I'd need a few litres of hair first!


No worries, got you covered!



Amazon.com : 80s wigs


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Noc lue what I'm sayin' but does Oddity 3 fall in different discussion ?


No. Great synth. Although I’d consider that more of a 1970s gem. Great emulation though, and of course used in the 80s as well. Great suggestion Sos!


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 22, 2022)

jimjazzuk said:


> Sadly, these days I'd need a few litres of hair first!


Even better. Wigs!!


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## Jaap (Nov 22, 2022)

On a more serious note here. I also think the Arturia V is really a great place to start. It got all those 80's goodies in there and with tons and tons of usable presets.
And if you are up for some more deep diving then Diva is indeed another one that should be present in any 80's setup. Also don't ignore the U-he Repro 1 + 5.

Edit: the nice thing about Arturia V collection is that Analog Lab has it extremely covered and makes it very easy to just browse through the amazingly big collection.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Just downloaded it. It's gorgeous. I used one of HZ's CS80's on Chappie. We had to get it tuned ( open it up and go to work ) about twice a day !!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@KEM


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## KEM (Nov 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> @KEM



I need to be in Hollywood already…


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## turnerofwheels (Nov 22, 2022)

I almost forgot, there's the lovely secret (well maybe not so secret) collection by Hideaway Studios of obscure vintage synths and effect modules from Russia, the UK etc. The interface is old school, and you are somewhat limited because these are samples, but they're very unique instruments

https://hideawaystudio.net/category/product-releases/


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 22, 2022)

KEM said:


> I need to be in Hollywood already…


You can do it, KEM. I went to university with a chap who wanted to work in films. He was interested in directing at the time. His application to film school failed - his tastes and knowledge needed broadening; but he kept going. Making films, studying them, writing screenplays. 

He didn't become a director, but discovered a gift and love for editing. The titles of his last few major films all begin with 'Mission Impossible'. He's very much living his dream!


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## proggermusic (Nov 22, 2022)

I'll second (third, fourth, fifth, whatever) the recommendation to jump on Arturia's V-Collection 9. It's got all the classics, including Synclavier and Fairlight, which were iconic in the '80s but weirdly hard to find modern versions of. Aside from those, the Yamaha DX7 and Roland D50 were hugely responsible for the sound of lots of '80s productions, along with the various Yamaha and Roland rack units. Of course, you'll need the appropriate reverbs and delays, too... those were nearly as important for the '80s production vibe as the instruments!

You can get a ton of the way there with the Yamaha DX7, and there's a really, really excellent free version of it called Dexed. Enormous preset libraries for it all over the web, too. The Arturia DX7 is great, but Dexed is literally just the software of the DX7 ported to Mac or Windows and sounds identical to the original... to the point that you can use preset files from the original DX7 cartridges and load them into Dexed (from what I've been told, at least).


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

For a cheap and extremely accurate DX7 emulation (actually the best I know) check out the Plogue one too ($25 at the moment).


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2022)

proggermusic said:


> to the point that you can use preset files from the original DX7 cartridges and load them into Dexed (from what I've been told, at least).


Correct. It reads DX7 sysex data.


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## KEM (Nov 22, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> You can do it, KEM. I went to university with a chap who wanted to work in films. He was interested in directing at the time. His application to film school failed - his tastes and knowledge needed broadening; but he kept going. Making films, studying them, writing screenplays.
> 
> He didn't become a director, but discovered a gift and love for editing. The titles of his last few major films all begin with 'Mission Impossible'. He's very much living his dream!



I’ve got a long road ahead of me!!


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 22, 2022)

KEM said:


> I’ve got a long road ahead of me!!


The journey is the career.


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## jimjazzuk (Nov 25, 2022)

I've been looking at the Arturia deal and it looks like a huge amount of keys for the money. Do people rate them as much as Cherry Audio etc? A few purists on here don't seem convinced... but I don't have a history of using actual analogue synths etc


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 25, 2022)

jimjazzuk said:


> I've been looking at the Arturia deal and it looks like a huge amount of keys for the money. Do people rate them as much as Cherry Audio etc? A few purists on here don't seem convinced... but I don't have a history of using actual analogue synths etc


I have the presets only version in Analog V. And, yes, they sound very good. I really don't know how accurate they are, but they do have terrific sounds. And, in general, the collection is well thought of and often recommended.

To me, I think that the reverbs on the presets often sound a little digital. Which is fine for the digital emulations, but not so much the analog ones. I probably just have wrong associations for the sound, though. And, in any case, it is easy to turn the reverb off and apply another one. Since a lot of these instruments are from the 80s, they probably would have been used on albums with digital reverb anyway.


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## proggermusic (Nov 25, 2022)

I think you'll probably find just as many inverse opinions... Cherry Audio has plenty of fans as well as detractors. Arturia, being the big name in that field, has exponentially more of both. Of all the big-name VI developers these days, I think Arturia does some of the best work. I've used plenty of hardware synths from Moog, Dave Smith/Sequential, etc, over the years, and for my money, Arturia gets more than close enough to the real thing. I absolutely love their Moog and ARP models, and I just started playing with their Oberheim model yesterday after upgrading from collection 7 to 9... and man, it's fantastic. 

I've used Arturia soft synths extensively on my own creative projects as well as music I've done for various multimedia productions without worry. Great stuff. 

(Two things worth mentioning: 1. I have no artist or industry relationship with Arturia, I just like their gear. 2. Arturia is NOT the VI developer I use most often, by a long shot! That distinction goes to Spectrasonics in a landslide, and I use Omnisphere/Keyscape orders of magnitude more than anything else.)


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## turnerofwheels (Nov 25, 2022)

When it comes to purists and comparisons, one issue is that there's variance even among the same models of analog synths.

Example: my Juno 106 always had a strange bug? feature? where when switching the 6 voices from poly to mono mode, the sync would change over time. Since this could act somewhat as a filter depending how the voices lined up, sometimes I'd discover interesting sounds that way. I haven't tried every Juno emulator out there, but the ones I've tried so far haven't recreated that, and I didn't really have time to test the other Juno 106's which I've sat down in front of briefly now and then over the years.

So when comparing the real deal to the emulation, they might not realize that even the real deal varies, and if their ears pick up some minor difference, it might not really matter that much. Sure, some emulations are not that good, but there's a lot of decent ones out there nowadays and short of a double blind test/ or blind a/b testing for yourself (there's plenty of youtube videos that do comparisons), I'd just say that if it sounds good to your ears, go for it and forget the purists


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## rAC (Nov 25, 2022)

ed buller said:


> This looks special !...I was luck enough to play on ABBA's GX1 in Stockholm a couple of years ago whilst doing a record there. Insane synth
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who took the pedals?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 4, 2022)

I don’t understand why people dis software synths. There are some wonderful ones these days. 

If someone offered me a choice between them and hardware they’re modeling - if that’s even what they’re doing - well yeah. 

But for example the Cherry Audio GX-80, which just came out, is what, $59? I defy anyone to argue convincingly that it’s not a fantastic instrument. And it doesn’t exist in hardware.

I find the argument stupid. Of course the feel of a prized classic instrument is missing from software that just sounds close. You don’t and can’t have the classic instrument, so who cares?


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## proggermusic (Dec 4, 2022)

I'm totally with you, Nick... I love killer synth sounds, and I dearly love great music that's artfully integrated truly electronic-rooted sounds with acoustic or electromechanical sounds. Software synths are awesome, I can do things with them more intuitively and efficiently than I've ever been able to do with hardware, and with excellent fidelity. 

A friend and mentor of mine – who's a musician, composer, arranger, producer, and music director at the very highest levels of the industry, he's worked with household names familiar to everyone's mother on this thread – owns tons of amazing vintage synths. He almost always uses the Arturia or Spectrasonics versions instead, since they're so much more practical, and they sound phenomenal. Magical thinking is rampant in the music/audio industries, but software gets the job done efficiently and effectively. 

I've personally used software emulations of vintage synths in creative projects, professional applications, soundtracks, productions for reasonably major artists... I'm so very grateful for them. They make my job much easier and I love to work with them. We live in a wonderful age in terms of music creation technology, and it's a shame not to acknowledge the fact!


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## KEM (Dec 4, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I don’t understand why people dis software synths. There are some wonderful ones these days.
> 
> If someone offered me a choice between them and hardware they’re modeling - if that’s even what they’re doing - well yeah.
> 
> ...



It’s really just an argument that old people make from what I’ve seen. Being 25 myself the first synths I ever heard of were Serum, Sylenth, and Massive, so I have no nostalgia or sentiment for old hardware synths. When I look at hardware emulations I’m not even concerned about the accuracy because I’ve never even touched the actual hardware versions of any of these synths, I have no idea if they’re accurate and I don’t care either way, I’m more concerned about a good looking GUI that looks inspiring to use. So if you gave a young kid like me the option between hardware or software emulation I’m taking the software every time, there’s so much more I’m familiar with and so much ease of use that is more attractive to me than the sound itself


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## José Herring (Dec 4, 2022)

KEM said:


> It’s really just an argument that old people make from what I’ve seen. Being 25 myself the first synths I ever heard of were Serum, Sylenth, and Massive, so I have no nostalgia or sentiment for old hardware synths. When I look at hardware emulations I’m not even concerned about the accuracy because I’ve never even touched the actual hardware versions of any of these synths, I have no idea if they’re accurate and I don’t care either way, I’m more concerned about a good looking GUI that looks inspiring to use. So if you gave a young kid like me the option between hardware or software emulation I’m taking the software every time, there’s so much more I’m familiar with and so much ease of use that is more attractive to me than the sound itself


Yeah, but you got to get into modular some day. Your hero Ludwig has some modular. 

My first synths were 90's romplers. They were the very first softsynths imo. Just computers weren't powerful back then so the computer had to be dedicated and wrapped in a box sometimes with a keyboard attached. 

It's amazing to me that many hip hop artist still use the synths we used in the 90's. It kind of blows me mind that the Korg Triton is still in use. 

So I didn't get into analog until I was in my 40's. It's good to know what those synths were capable of like the CS80 because the are/were "musical" instruments. The conservation of resources means that every knob, slider and button served an aesthetically musical purpose. In some weird way I kind of think Zebra/ZHZ is like the follow up to the CS80. I love Zebra because it's a softsynth that isn't trying to be like hardware but somehow managed to sound analog without all the pitfals of analog and all the advantages of software. 
I love the soft analog emulations. I will love the GX80 but I kind of think that it's a bit of a mistake for people to just focus only on emulations. They had their limitations.

But..... I honestly have only touched vintage gear in a shop and not too many. I think I laid my hands on a Juno 60 . Much of what I learned about the choices these vintage synths makers made, I learned straight up from softsynth emulations. Like there's an envelope on the aftertouch of a CS80. Brilliant idea. I learned it from the Arturia emulations and from HZ on FB. 
So I love vintage synth explorations because guys like Bob Moog were straight up genius creating instruments and solving problems in creative ways. Studying Bob Moog I learned what actually makes the mini Moog sound like a mini Moog. It was a mathematical mistake when they were designing one of the circuits!!! I geek out over that stuff.

Btw, do you know what synth Ludwig used on the track "Wakanda Forever"? Sounds awesome.


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## KEM (Dec 4, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Yeah, but you got to get into modular some day. Your hero Ludwig has some modular.
> 
> My first synths were 90's romplers. They were the very first softsynths imo. Just computers weren't powerful back then so the computer had to be dedicated and wrapped in a box sometimes with a keyboard attached.
> 
> ...



I wish I did cause it sounds incredible, @Pier also really loved that specific sound. I’ll try to do some research into what all Ludwig has so we can maybe make an educated guess. I know he’s got a Juno and a Prophet so it could be one of those, but it could also be software like Hive or Oddity which he also uses


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## Pier (Dec 4, 2022)

KEM said:


> I wish I did cause it sounds incredible, @Pier also really loved that specific sound. I’ll try to do some research into what all Ludwig has so we can maybe make an educated guess. I know he’s got a Juno and a Prophet so it could be one of those, but it could also be software like Hive or Oddity which he also uses


You mean the bass/lead sound that has like a guitar tone? I think the magic is mostly in the processing.

There's like a sub bass underneath too. Could be some MB processor or just another layer.


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## José Herring (Dec 4, 2022)

KEM said:


> I wish I did cause it sounds incredible, @Pier also really loved that specific sound. I’ll try to do some research into what all Ludwig has so we can maybe make an educated guess. I know he’s got a Juno and a Prophet so it could be one of those, but it could also be software like Hive or Oddity which he also uses


That would be incredible. I'll start trying to mimic that sound and see if I can even get close. I actually really loved that cue.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 5, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I don’t understand why people dis software synths. There are some wonderful ones these days.
> 
> If someone offered me a choice between them and hardware they’re modeling - if that’s even what they’re doing - well yeah.
> 
> ...


IMO, there’s a lot to be said about the pleasure of playing with hardware over software. For moi, it’s not only about the sound. I can’t read my emails or surf the web on my Hydrasynth, and that’s a beautiful thing.


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## Teksonik (Dec 5, 2022)

KEM said:


> It’s really just an argument that old people make from what I’ve seen.


In my experience the lust for analog is more common in young people who never lived through the era and never owned hardware from that time. 

I bought my first analog synth somewhere around 1980 and by the mid 80's had grown bored with the sound and ended up selling all my analog gear.

Having worked in a music store in the mid-late 80's I can say there was a time when no one cared about analog any longer. Suddenly with the arrival of the digital and hybrid synths we had a whole world of new sounds at our fingertips that went far beyond simple saw, square, triangle, pulse, and sine waves.

I ended up using synths like the DX7, Ensoniq ESQ-1, Mirage, U220, etc. The Roland D-50 and Korg M1 were hugely popular as well. The D-50's "Digital Native Dance" patch alone was used in countless movies and tv shows and of course the DX7's Tine Piano sound was so ubiquitous it became nauseating. 

So even though I'm old AF I wouldn't go back to the limitations of analog synths and before someone says it, with a well equipped midi controller keyboard you can have just as much if not more tactile response from computer based synths as you can with dedicated unit synths.

To me the computer based synths we have now are far superior in both quality of sound, range of sounds, and convenience. Just alleviating the need for MIDI spaghetti is blessing enough. 

At any rate, when people say "the 80's sound" that doesn't narrow it down at all since music of the time ranged from New Age to Heavy Metal and so much in between.

So I have to recommend my favorite synth of all time, dedicated hardware or computer based, Synapse Audio's DUNE 3. There was a Black Friday sale and I image there might be a similar one near Christmas.

DUNE 3's sound is very high end and it has a range of sounds from typical analog (with up to 24 VA Oscs, choice of 31 Filters, several of which are analog modeled, etc) to D-50/Hybrid type sounds.

I highly recommend giving the DUNE 3 demo a try.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 5, 2022)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> IMO, there’s a lot to be said about the pleasure of playing with hardware over software. For moi, it’s not only about the sound. I can’t read my emails or surf the web on my Hydrasynth, and that’s a beautiful thing.


Absolutely. My point is that it’s a false choice.


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## Teksonik (Dec 5, 2022)

I have far more pleasure playing my computer based synths than I ever did playing hardware synths.

(There really is no such thing as a "software synth" as they all require hardware of some kind)

My MIDI controller keyboard has some of the finest action of any I've ever played and has 24 knobs and sliders which can be assigned any way I wish rather than having knobs locked to parameters.

The old "tactile response" argument goes out the window once you have a well equipped computer based studio with a good controller.


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## sostenuto (Dec 5, 2022)

Teksonik said:


> I have far more pleasure playing my computer based synths than I ever did playing hardware synths.
> 
> (There really is no such thing as a "software synth" as they all require hardware of some kind)
> 
> ...


Will appreciate suggestions re. top _ *88*-key MIDI Controllers with full set of controls
( knobs/sliders/et al ) AND top quality key bed. Current usage includes older _ Axiom 61 Pro, with fine set of controls, KK S-49, and Roland KR-577 ( digi-piano, no controls. ).

Omni v2.8 User, considering Keyscape. Looking forward to - as close to hardware synth experience, as possible, but must have top quality 88-note keyboard. Fairly uncertain given large number of options available.
THX !


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## Pier (Dec 5, 2022)

Teksonik said:


> The old "tactile response" argument goes out the window once you have a well equipped computer based studio with a good controller.


It's not only about the tactile response per se.

In many DAWs you can set up the automapping of macros/quick controls to knobs/faders but you still have to decide which parameters you want to control on a case per case basis. You don't have access to all the controls in a physical layout that makes sense. It's just rows of unlabeled controls.

There are solutions like Komplete Kontrol or Push 2 with a display that tells you the names of the parameters assigned to the 8 knobs, but still this approach requires you to decide beforehand what you want to control. No room for creative serendipity during the performance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a software guy through and through, but there's something to be said about the magic of having a physical instrument designed to be performed. Which of course only works with simple synths.


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## Voider (Dec 5, 2022)

Teksonik said:


> My MIDI controller keyboard has some of the finest action of any I've ever played and has 24 knobs and sliders which can be assigned any way I wish rather than having knobs locked to parameters.


Which one is it?


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## mgnoatto (Dec 5, 2022)

what about RePro, it sounds amazing to me, I use it all the time


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## AmbientMile (Dec 5, 2022)

KEM said:


> It’s really just an argument that old people make from what I’ve seen....


I guess I buck that trend. I am 57 years old. My first synth was a Yamaha CS-5. I've owned Rolands, Korgs, Sequentials and many others. I still have my Rhodes 73 and Polysix, along with some newer synths and I LOVE plugin synths. The quality today is phenomenal to these old ears and I've never had to replace key sensors, have them tuned, etc.


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## KEM (Dec 5, 2022)

AmbientMile said:


> I guess I buck that trend. I am 57 years old. My first synth was a Yamaha CS-5. I've owned Rolands, Korgs, Sequentials and many others. I still have my Rhodes 73 and Polysix, along with some newer synths and I LOVE plugin synths. The quality today is phenomenal to these old ears and I've never had to replace key sensors, have them tuned, etc.



That’s exactly why I’m a plugin only guy, you get all the upsides with none of the negatives. We’re at a point in music technology where hardware doesn’t sound objectively “better” anymore, just “different”, and those differences aren’t enough to make me spend 4x the amount of money for something that can’t do as much as software


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 5, 2022)

Someone on Facebook - wish I could remember his name to credit - has a great analogy: the Apple Watch.

It does all kinds of useful things in addition to telling time and you'd think it has it all over regular watches, which is why so many people have them.

Yet many people still prefer regular watches just because of the coolness factor.

I happen to fit both profiles - I like my old watches, some of which I've had for a very long time (like 40 years). But at least the latest versions of the Apple Watch are also extremely nice looking, and I really like my new one. (It's the always-on display that makes them like jewelry rather than little "I'm an Apple zombie" bracelets.)

Remember, all analogies break down. This one is only to make the point about the coolness factor.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 5, 2022)

KEM said:


> It’s really just an argument that old people make from what I’ve seen. Being 25 myself


I don't think that's the only demographic, actually. They're just cool, and people of all ages respond to that.

It's true that what you consider old people come from generations in which everyone played instruments (just wait until you're 66, you'll see that it doesn't feel old when you get here!). Not loops, not arpeggiators, not even sequencers, actual instruments with hard-earned playing technique.

We don't even have a lawn, so why are you kids on it?!

Anyway, analog synths probably do hearken back to that golden era. But I can tell you that when I was 25 and a student a Berklee, very few people even had access to synths. One of my roommates bought what seemed like a cheap plastic Korg thing* just before I left in 1981, and there was a flaky guy named Eddie who had an Arp String Ensemble... who never showed up to sessions when you arranged for him to bring it.

An arranging professor I had, Bob Chestnut, said that you might want to "dangle" a synth in your arrangement - "here it is" - because it was a new thing.

They were forbiddingly expensive and not as common as one might think. Even in the early '80s (before the DX-7), people got recording gigs just because they owned a synth.

* That "cheap plastic thing" was probably a Korg MS-20.


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## Teksonik (Dec 6, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Will appreciate suggestions re. top _ *88*-key MIDI Controllers with full set of controls
> ( knobs/sliders/et al ) AND top quality key bed. Current usage includes older _ Axiom 61 Pro, with fine set of controls, KK S-49, and Roland KR-577 ( digi-piano, no controls. ).
> 
> Omni v2.8 User, considering Keyscape. Looking forward to - as close to hardware synth experience, as possible, but must have top quality 88-note keyboard. Fairly uncertain given large number of options available.
> THX !


Akai MPK288:









MPK88


Hammer Action Performance Keyboard Controller for VIP with MPC Pads




www.akaipro.com


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## Teksonik (Dec 6, 2022)

Pier said:


> It's not only about the tactile response per se.
> 
> In many DAWs you can set up the automapping of macros/quick controls to knobs/faders but you still have to decide which parameters you want to control on a case per case basis. You don't have access to all the controls in a physical layout that makes sense. It's just rows of unlabeled controls.
> 
> ...


You can create a layout that makes sense to you and save that layout as a preset in your controller.

Always want Knob 1 Bank A to control Filter Cutoff? Set it up and forget it. Want one knob to control cutoff in every synth.....at the same time? Set it up and forget it.

The versatility of a well equipped midi controller will always give you more power than hard linked parameters.

There is just as much potential for "creative serendipity", you just have to put a little thought and effort into it and you are rewarded by versatility and the ability to customize things the way you want and not the way the hardware manufacturers wanted you to work.

At any rate as much nostalgia as I have for the times I hold no such nostaliga for the technology of the times. I wouldn't go back to this for anything....


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## Teksonik (Dec 6, 2022)

Voider said:


> Which one is it?


I have an Akai MPK 261:









MPK261


Performance Keyboard Controller for VIP




www.akaipro.com


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## Teksonik (Dec 6, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I don't think that's the only demographic, actually. They're just cool, and people of all ages respond to that.
> 
> It's true that what you consider old people come from generations in which everyone played instruments (just wait until you're 66, you'll see that it doesn't feel old when you get here!). Not loops, not arpeggiators, not even sequencers, actual instruments with hard-earned playing technique.
> 
> ...


I'm not interested in being "cool" I just want to make music and hardware synths are not the best tools for that task these days.

I get it that hardware synths might be better for a touring musician but let's be serious....how many of us are on tour these days? Then again a good midi controller and well spec'd laptop could take the place of a ton of hardware on stage and be much easier to set up.

I also get that everything old is new again to the next generation so I don't blame young people for wanting to experience something from the past.

I just don't want people of any age who are new to making music with synths to think that hardware synths are superior in any way to the computer based solutions we have now.

I moved on from hardware synths just like I moved on from watching movies on VHS. Sure there are old farts my age who still cling to the past but many of us have evolved.

I can safely say that we are now living in the golden age of synthesis and who knows what the future holds. There has never been a better time to be a synthesizer enthusiast.


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## sostenuto (Dec 6, 2022)

Teksonik said:


> Akai MPK288:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


THX ! Interesting units available from trusted dealers _ at cool prices ! 
Had not considered this option. ✌🏻


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 6, 2022)

Teksonik said:


> I'm not interested in being "cool"


Don't worry. 

(It's the instruments themselves that are cool, not the equipment operator.)



Teksonik said:


> I just don't want people of any age who are new to making music with synths to think that hardware synths are superior in any way to the computer based solutions we have now.


And yet a lot of musicians are drawn to hardware instruments more than software ones. Why?

I think it's an emotional connection. You either feel that or you don't - or you're somewhere in between, as I am.


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## Pier (Dec 6, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Don't worry.
> 
> (It's the instruments themselves that are cool, not the equipment operator.)


I wonder if Beethoven considered himself a pen and paper operator lol


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## Pier (Dec 6, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> And yet a lot of musicians are drawn to hardware instruments more than software ones. Why?


Because making music is primarily a subjective experience.

If your thing is using stick and rocks and goat skins then the "superiority" of software Teksonik is arguing won't do a thing to help you make music.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 6, 2022)

Teksonik said:


> I just don't want people of any age who are new to making music with synths to think that hardware synths are superior in any way to the computer based solutions we have now.


I don't agree with this. I never owned an analog synth until this year, and now I would say that the very best softsynths (eg Softube Model 84 or Repro) are maybe 95%-98% of the way there sonically. Of course, whether you care about that extra 2 or 5 % entirely depends on the kind of music you are making, and it's ok if you don't. Softsynths are for sure superior in terms of convenience.


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## sostenuto (Dec 6, 2022)

Leaves me puzzling _ given leaning to add replacement for one or more older, existing, MIDI Keyboard Controllers.
Hybrid possiblity might be _ Akai MPK288, or Arturia KeyLab 88 MkII, drivng Keyscape.
Would one of several touted Hardware Synths truly offer more 'tangible' benefits ?? 🤷🏻


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## Pier (Dec 6, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> I don't agree with this. I never owned an analog synth until this year, and now I would say that the very best softsynths (eg Softube Model 84 or Repro) are maybe 95%-98% of the way there sonically. Of course, whether you care about that extra 2 or 5 % entirely depends on the kind of music you are making, and it's ok if you don't. Softsynths are for sure superior in terms of convenience.


Yes but it's not only about the sound. Some people just hate using software synths. Being in front of a computer completely sucks their creativity.

It's not my case, I'm perfectly happy with a mouse, but I do know people who are the complete opposite.


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## sostenuto (Dec 6, 2022)

Pier said:


> Because making music is primarily a subjective experience.
> 
> If your thing is using stick and rocks and goat skins then the "superiority" of software Teksonik is arguing won't do a thing to help you make music.







I resemble that !!


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## doctoremmet (Dec 6, 2022)

You guys still work with stock goats? Tsss…


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## SupremeFist (Dec 6, 2022)

Pier said:


> Yes but it's not only about the sound. Some people just hate using software synths. Being in front of a computer completely sucks their creativity.
> 
> It's not my case, I'm perfectly happy with a mouse, but I do know people who are the complete opposite.


Absolutely, the workflow/psychological considerations are real, and cut different ways for different people.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 6, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> You guys still work with stock goats? Tsss…


Bond goats only. The stock ones are too risky, and to me that's quite baaaaaaaaad.


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## AmbientMile (Dec 10, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> ...And yet a lot of musicians are drawn to hardware instruments more than software ones. Why?....


While I stand behind my comment about plugins, there IS something satisfying about grabbing a physical knob or slider to adjust a sound. Even though I have midi controllers with assignable controls, it's not the same. But it doesn't change my opinion about plugins.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 10, 2022)

AmbientMile said:


> While I stand behind my comment about plugins, there IS something satisfying about grabbing a physical knob or slider to adjust a sound. Even though I have midi controllers with assignable controls, it's not the same. But it doesn't change my opinion about plugins.



When I repeat myself it means I don't have anything new to say, but when I repeat myself it means I don't have anything new to say, but let me repeat myself using a different analogy - bearing in mind that all analogies break down:

Backing tracks vs. a live band.

Backing tracks have it all over live musicians. You can layer as many parts as you want, they don't make mistakes, the time is fixed, you have total control over the mix, they don't have all the problems you have to deal with when you hire musicians from the human race, and of course they're much cheaper.

And yet it's nothing like a live band.

(This is on my mind because we saw The Weeknd at SoFi Arena a couple of weeks ago. He's amazing, but the whole thing left me totally stone cold - because it was all backing tracks, and all synths at that.)

I think it's the same sort of thing with hardware synths. It's not the hands-on control - you can replicate that with your MIDI controllers - it's the feeling that you're playing an actual instrument.

But again, some of the softsynths coming out these days are absolutely wonderful. I'm far from a hardware-only GUY.


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