# Do you write/track with a limiter on master bus?



## ryanstrong (Oct 17, 2015)

When you are composing/writing/tracking etc. do you have a limiter on the master bus or do you do that afterwards and just crank your monitors?


----------



## sleepy hollow (Oct 17, 2015)

Always got a limiter on the master bus. I rarely switch it off (or bypass it).

Sometimes, not always, I use it to get a good signal boost on the master bus, mostly when start working on a tune with a supposedly high track count and there isn't much going on signal-wise. I lower that boost as the tune builds up.

Come to think of it, I don't really have a master bus - it's more of a master section, based on an array of subgroups which function as signal distributor, M/S encoding/decoding, parallel comps, summing unit, and much more.


----------



## jneebz (Oct 17, 2015)

Yeah last in the chain on the 2 bus. Lately I've been leaving a few plugs activated because I find it inspiring while I write...Pultec for 8k boost, TB ReelBus for separation and punch, Sonnox Inflator, and the previously mentioned TB Limiter. All of these are set to basic settings, but it gives me a nice canvas to work on. I will dig in and make tweaks at the end depending on the material/style I'm writing.

I'm sure this workflow is a crime in most states


----------



## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 17, 2015)

I think it depends on what you're doing. If you're delivering stems then you can't really use anything on the master bus.


----------



## rayinstirling (Oct 17, 2015)

More important is the use of floating point.


----------



## JunoVHS (Oct 18, 2015)

well, I think you should always keep a peak limiter at the end of your signal chain, just because accidents can happen. 

When I'm writing music, I keep levels low, with a peak limiter at the end and the monitor level up to a comfortable listening level. I do everything on monitors, and in the end I check bass on headphones. I master the final stereo file offline, in RX or Forge. its much faster/easier to make "broad strokes" that way, and keep perspective on the whole file.


----------



## rayinstirling (Oct 18, 2015)

I should expand on my comment. "More important is the use of floating point".
Controlling gain at every stage in the process is more important than a limiter on the last bus in the chain. If there is a problem with level (too hot usually) anywhere before the final bus, limiting it will not solve anything.


----------



## ryanstrong (Oct 18, 2015)

Yeah my biggest issue is that everything is pretty quiet in my DAW and if I need to reference iTunes or Spotify I have to turn the mains way down and it just becomes annoying .


----------



## germancomponist (Oct 18, 2015)

Not while composing. Think about the dynamics of any instruments ... .


----------



## ryanstrong (Oct 18, 2015)

germancomponist said:


> Not while composing. Think about the dynamics of any instruments ... .


Yeah if I have a limiter on the buss it can sometimes screw with the dynamics if I'm just writing with a single instrument.

Is this just an isolated problem I'm having or does everyone deal with this?


----------



## AR (Oct 18, 2015)

I'm having the satin plugin and the L360 on my masterbus always on, leveling the limitation on a level so dialog and score sit in a balance. In 98% I don't have the problem, the music's reaching peaks. And that is good, cause scores are not made for radio. Now, knowing I'll have the plugins on my masterbus, I keep in mind that I can't transport satin and l360 on my stems.


----------



## sleepy hollow (Oct 18, 2015)

ryanstrong said:


> Is this just an isolated problem I'm having or does everyone deal with this?


You're talking about the balance between the DAW signal and the OS signal (audio from internet, system sounds)?

Nah, I guess you're not alone. It can be annoying at times.


----------



## gsilbers (Oct 18, 2015)

some mix engineers use a bus with and w/o limiter so they can listen how it will "kind of sound like" when mastered and go back and forth making adjustments to the mix. 

For EDM type of productions I do use a limiter/crank it. it definlty brings a different feel to writing it-but then i try to master on another session. 
for media work i only use a limiter for peaks but will try fix those peaks in the mix so i try to get k-12/good rms level. 

there is also clip plugins which its better to not make track "pump" 
http://www.siraudiotools.com/StandardCLIP.php
http://kazrog.com/products/kclip/
these are great to increase loudness and not make a track sound compressed. but for film score where there is more dynamics then without any processing better. maybe glue compressors on the busses before printing stems.


----------



## D.Salzenberg (Oct 18, 2015)

I'm a bit of a newbie with mixing and mastering, and I too find it annoying that when comparing a track I'm working on (hybrid trailer type music) with some favourite reference tracks my track sounds very quiet and I have to keep turning the monitoring volume up and down.
Is there a quick way to just get a more commercial volume level on a track you are working on without just overloading everything?


----------



## ryanstrong (Oct 18, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> You're talking about the balance between the DAW signal and the OS signal (audio from internet, system sounds)?
> 
> Nah, I guess you're not alone. It can be annoying at times.


Yeah exactly.

Seems like there would be a universal "fix" or adjustment at this point so that sound/audio wouldn't need to be boosted like this since there is a new "norm" of loudness.


----------



## rayinstirling (Oct 18, 2015)

D.Salzenberg said:


> I'm a bit of a newbie with mixing and mastering, and I too find it annoying that when comparing a track I'm working on (hybrid trailer type music) with some favourite reference tracks my track sounds very quiet and I have to keep turning the monitoring volume up and down.
> Is there a quick way to just get a more commercial volume level on a track you are working on without just overloading everything?


Levels can go down as well as up and.........it's not a great idea to compare a pre master to a master. Btw there is a plugin out there for doing it called perception. Available from Meterplugs.


----------



## davidgary73 (Oct 19, 2015)

No limiter, just a good compressor with -1db light compression. Keep everything clean as possible 

Eq & balance your instruments and get them to sit right in the mix. I use limiter only when i need to output the final product to my client.

MagicAB plugin comes in handy to check track loudness against a commercial track. I use a limiter here to bring my mix as near to the commercial track.


----------



## jtnyc (Oct 19, 2015)

I try to keep levels on the low side with no master bus processing when writing and recording. I'll start a mix with nothing on the master bus, once I get a good balance and EQ and compress individual tracks and busses, set up FX busses and get the overall dynamics feeling good, then I'll compress the master bus maybe -1db to -4db depending on the material (usually FF ProC or NI SSL Bus Comp), then for some final limiting and overall volume I'll use FF ProL. It does vary of coarse. Vintage Warmer can end up at the top of the chain when things are sounding to clean. Used subtilely, VM can really glue things together in a nice way.


----------



## rJames (Oct 19, 2015)

Like gsilbers said, as some people do, I will use it from time to time (depending on the type of cue) to hear what is going to happen to the mix when it is mastered. I think that is probably only important because I am mastering (as well as I can without the pro expertise) my own tracks.
If you are having a pro master your tracks then you can just write it the way you want and they will have the skills to keep it sounding as you've intended while bringing it up for your final.
If you are raising the levels to match what is on Soundcloud or wherever, I would say just don't let it go into compression. Bring it up to listenable levels but not mastering levels or your dynamics might go somewhere you don't want them to go.
I don't think you would ever want a limiter on the master when you are tracking. Maybe a tad of compression to keep things from clipping... but you would want to watch the levels because in most instances you wouldn't want a brick wall on each of your elements.


----------



## ThomasL (Oct 19, 2015)

D.Salzenberg said:


> I'm a bit of a newbie with mixing and mastering, and I too find it annoying that when comparing a track I'm working on (hybrid trailer type music) with some favourite reference tracks my track sounds very quiet and I have to keep turning the monitoring volume up and down.
> Is there a quick way to just get a more commercial volume level on a track you are working on without just overloading everything?


One way is to use a monitor controller with a "Dim" functionality. I've calibrated mine so that it's just about -18dB, that way I can listen to mastered tracks (with the Dim engaged) and my own at regular levels. Works very well. Until those few times you forget to actually engage the Dim button


----------

