# What every member SHOULD know about this forum



## MoonFlare (Mar 25, 2013)

I've been at this forum for a long time - way longer than what the join date indicates. In fact, I started out on the Northern Sounds forum, where many of you guys come from as well.

After all the years I've reached a conclusion that is based on solid evidence. This forum is neither fair, honest nor objective. There are three things members of this forum should be aware of:

1. The discussion is not free nor open. Posts are being censored.
2. Members are not equal. Celebrities and developers are "worth" more.
3. You can not speak your mind, because you'll have a hailstorm of replies telling you that you are offensive.

I'll support these statements with three recent threads. All quotes are exact. No changes are made.


*Cinebrass disappointments*



MoonFlare @ Mon Nov 19 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm a little disappointed of Cinebrass v1.1 (core). Here's why:
> 
> ...



The above quote is the first post in a thread I made. The title of this thread was changed to 'Cinebrass difficulties' by a moderator.

- I did not receive a message from any moderator asking whether I could change it myself.
- I did not receive a message saying that the title would be changed, that it had been changed nor what the reason for the change was.
- No comment was ever given in the thread that explained the title change. The moderator who changed it cowardly hide.

Unfortunately, the censorship caused the thread to spin off from the intended technical discussion. You can judge for yourself.


*The award for the most professional sample library company goes to...*



MoonFlare @ Fri Mar 15 said:


> ...without doubt: Vienna Symphonic Library.
> 
> - They have their own software which is stable (including a mastering suite)
> - Their support is unprecedented (superfast, polite and precise)
> ...



The above quote shows the initial post of a thread. As a consequence of this single initial post I was accused for being rude and disrespectful. I was never asked if I could change it. My rudeness was just stated as an obvious fact. I was also accused for stepping on other developers toes. Fair? Judge for yourself.


*A-list composer copies Zimmer?*



MoonFlare @ Thu Mar 21 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Almost eight bars in one of the most central cues in the first transformer score is identical to that of a cue in King Arthur's score:
> 
> ...



As a consequence of this very post, I was accused for being rude, trying to get everybody's attention, being self-important and trying to find imaginary crimes. There are four question marks in the post: one in the title and three in the content. I was genuinely interested to know whether it is possible to create so similar parts in a score since I've discarded a lot of themes I've composed myself because I have felt they are too close to something already existing. 

And very importantly, the time I listed for the Transformers cue on the right side of the link should have been 1:21 and not 1:31! (Please listen to the scores again: 9:54 and 1:21!). I owe my thanks to a great guy who notified me about this in a message. Unfortunately, I can not change this, as the thread is now locked. The thread got immediately locked after Zimmer had posted a little flattering message.

That the thread actually was locked after Zimmer's reply also underlines one of my point: celebrities and developers are treated differently from "regular" members on this forum. There is no doubt about it. If you say critical things about a developer or celebrity, a senior member or moderator will probably chime in and ask you to "behave". Just an example: a member thought that Zimmer's music would not suit the new Star Wars films, to which he got a reply telling him not to talk badly about other members' music. First, this is ridiculous. Second, the same would not have been said if Zimmer was not involved.


The three threads I've been referring to can be found here in their entirety:

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... highlight=
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... highlight=
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... highlight=

I welcome you to read through them carefully and make up your own opinion. I also invite you to search for all posts made by me in this forum. Does it really look like I want to start a fight (which I of course have been accused for as well).

My true intention of all my posts in this forum has been to have positive and technical discussions. Unfortunately, there are some that interpret my posts in a negative manner. They don't give me the benefit of the doubt and quickly state that I'm being rude and disrespectful.

Once I was also asked "what did you expect?" when one of my threads went airborne. I guess it was from a senior member or a moderator. This is a bit peculiar, because it indicates that there is an inherent culture on this forum that makes these heated discussions sort of expected. Please read through the quotes listed above. Do you expect to be called rude, disrespectful, self-important [...the list goes on...] after writing such? I certainly don't, and the fact that some believe this is expected makes it all a bit sad. Instead of focusing on the technical discussion, some have been obsessed by picking on semantic differences in the posts - even after I've explicitly stated in the threads that I did not intend to be rude or disrespectful. I've seen it again and again.

What I find troublesome is that people donate money to this forum. In such case I would expect the discussions to be free, open, including and fair. But they're not. This forum has a finanical aspect. Do not make the mistake of thinking that it's not the case. For instance, why do you think the post in the first quote above was censored? 

I've come to a point where I can not accept the terms on which this forum is built. I know many of you can, but to me it's just wrong. Things are happening in my career. My music has been heard by millions of people around the world. I guess it's time for me to move on. This will be my last post. I know most of you probably won't care, but I also know that some will. For what it's worth, this last post will be my legacy.

I know that many people will feel they're being treated unfairly in this forum in the years to come. That is unfortunate.


I wish you all the best.

Signing off...


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## windshore (Mar 25, 2013)

funny to me how people will say "This is my last post." Then continue to participate, sometimes more intensely than before. 

It's always easy to look at something that already exists and find fault.

If all you do is find fault, but you're not the one doing the building, it's even easier to live in an idealized state of dreaming.

I'm very sorry that Moonflare has discovered that there are aspects of life that are unfair or uneven. We do our best here at VI with very few resources really. No member is required to stay here. If you get what you'd like, enjoy it. If you feel you're a victim, move on to something else.


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## Resoded (Mar 25, 2013)

For all it's worth, here's my 5 cents on your three topics.

I agree with you on some points, but not on everything. In your case, I think you've been particularly unfortunate to have recieved these responses on all three of your topics, and I don't think your view is a 100% accurate description of the forum.

*Cinebrass difficulties*

I know I commented on this earlier too, but I'm with you on this. In my opinion, your original title was perfectly fine. If I remember correctly, there was also a discussion after your post got edited with a lot of people speaking against heavy moderation. Though in all fairness, this forum is very open in comparison with many other forums.

*The award for the most professional sample library company goes to...*

When it comes to this topic, I'm not sure what you were thinking. This forum is packed with people who love and sometimes hate different libraries. Awarding a specific developer, with the underlying message seemingly implying that other developers can't match them, is to open a can of worms.

This forum is also packed with people who love to argue whatever opinion they have, no matter if it's constructive, rewarding or interesting. Arguing for the sake of arguing. I used to do this too though, and I'm trying to cut down on arguing, since it's pointless. These people obviously jump at the opportunity to argue some more.

*A-list composer copies Zimmer?*

First off, this forum has had so many topics about copying and such so a lot of people are just tired of the very idea of having another one.

Second, I'm not sure, but your way of writing implied that you were questioning people. Your intention was probably just to invite HZ to comment, and instead you gave kind of a bossy impression, questioning him.

Then of course HZ gave a very rude response in turn.

Concerning people being star struck, I think you're right. I've never seen so many people on a forum bend over backwards to avoid confrontation with someone.


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## Resoded (Mar 25, 2013)

I'd like to add also, I think you should stick around, things will cool down.


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## nikolas (Mar 25, 2013)

I was writing an extra long reply and then thought "why on earth? He won't read it, will he?".

The fact remains: We don't need the drama. If you want to go, go. If you want to stay, stay.

my suggestion would be to preview the threads that you keep making, and try to read them as someone else. To check if, for example, Hans Zimmer would take offence at your thread and your tone (it's obvious that he did and I don't blame him).

There's nothing else to discuss really.


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## Alex Cuervo (Mar 25, 2013)

I'll miss having to check if a thread was started by you before I bother reading it.


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## Ciaran Birch (Mar 25, 2013)

Alex Cuervo @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> I'll miss having to check if a thread was started by you before I bother reading it.



+1 

I think a lot of your threads meant no harm. But it was the tone that they came across with that I think gave people cause to comment...and comment hard!  

The more composers on here the better, but as nickolas mentioned, nobody needs drama for the sake of drama. Especially when we're all trying to learn from each other on here, and have some constructive chats.

All the best,

Ciaran


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## MikeH (Mar 25, 2013)

MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> Things are happening in my career. My music has been heard by millions of people around the world. I guess it's time for me to move on. This will be my last post. I know most of you probably won't care, but I also know that some will. For what it's worth, this last post will be my legacy.




What's this music that's been heard by millions of people? Just curious.


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 25, 2013)

Cue the violins


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## Tatu (Mar 25, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> Cue the violins


Oboe... an A, please!


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## mverta (Mar 25, 2013)

MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> This forum is neither fair, honest nor objective.



Life isn't fair, and most people are neither truly honest nor objective.





MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> 1. The discussion is not free nor open. Posts are being censored.
> 2. Members are not equal. Celebrities and developers are "worth" more.
> 3. You can not speak your mind, because you'll have a hailstorm of replies telling you that you are offensive.



1. Discussion is seldom free, and open (which is why most people aren't truly honest about their opinions). Try calling 10 friends on the phone and telling them your plan to kill the President. Or shouting, "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Or joking with the nice folks at the airport about your laptop bomb.

2. _People_ are not all equal, so it would follow that a forum shows the same social strata present in everyday life. People are_ created_ equal. After that, it's parenting, socialization, and self-respect which determines what you do, and what you were ultimately worth to the human race. Some people tap out at Child-Murdering Pedophile.

3. Do not speak your mind if you can't handle a hailstorm of criticism about your opinion. If your position is that easily rattled, it's a weak position, anyway; and if it's strong, you have the strength of your convictions to weather the storm.




_Mike


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Mar 25, 2013)

MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> After all the years I've reached a conclusion that is based on solid evidence. This forum is neither fair, honest nor objective.
> (...) I would expect the discussions to be free, open, including and fair. But they're not.
> (...) Do not make the mistake of thinking that it's not the case.


Well, I guess there's your 'solid evidence'!  




MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> Things are happening in my career. My music has been heard by millions of people around the world. I guess it's time for me to move on. This will be my last post. I know most of you probably won't care, but I also know that some will. For what it's worth, this last post will be my legacy.



"For what it's worth"? Well, let me see... I'm sure those millions of imaginary fans will appreciate your legacy, but to me this thread is like the DVD Audio Commentary of a movie that I have never heard of. :roll: 

- Jerome Vonhögen

P.S. Say hi to your fans, 'cause we're obviously not part of those millions of people, are we?

(Disclaimer: I have no intention to be rude or disrespectful with this post.) :wink:


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## mark812 (Mar 25, 2013)




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## lee (Mar 25, 2013)

Come on guys, give him a break.


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## nikolas (Mar 25, 2013)

lee @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> Come on guys, give him a break.


Since he's not coming back we could carry on making fun of anything we want really.

But as responsible mod P) I'll support the notion to quit teasing the guy. He's left. Let's leave his last threads alone to die in the internet oblivion!


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 25, 2013)

What an outpouring of compassion. It's like the spirit of Live Aid all over again.

Look - most of Moonflare's issues are of his own making. When about 20 people were telling him in the plagarism thread that he was being ridiculous and this wasn't going to end well, he boasted that there was a "lot of noise" and he "wasn't listening". Not dissimilar in the VSL thread. The CS thread was a genuinely strange one though - I still don't know what was going on there.

But really, do we have to put the boot in _quite_ so hard? It's just kinda sad. I just hope that Moonflare learns how to listen.


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## dcoscina (Mar 25, 2013)

Although it was a tad irascibly articulated, I think Hans Zimmer's advice was the best- if a topic bothers someone so much, turn off the internet and compose some music you enjoy. 

The biggest illusion we have is that any topic or idea is sacred. Especially when it comes to music or any creative art. Yes, healthy debate and discussion often fuels one in positive ways but it really doesn't replace learning from listening or studying other composers' music at the end of the day. If this were a forum on argumentation and philosophy, then yeah. dialogue would be prevalent.

Edit- I will concur with those who don't wish Moonflare any ill will and certainly don't think it's classy to ridicule him.

Hope he comes back. I agree with his VSL observations!


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## lee (Mar 25, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> But really, do we have to put the boot in _quite_ so hard? It's just kinda sad. I just hope that Moonflare learns how to listen.



My point exactly. But even if he doesn't listen, we shouldn't encourage this.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 25, 2013)

As joked about regarding CPAC on Bill Maher's show recently -

"if you're constantly accused of racism? You're probably a racist."


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## givemenoughrope (Mar 25, 2013)

Talk a walk outside. 

Also, some things you ought to just think quietly to yourself. Why argue? I've done my share over stupid nonsense but I wouldn't do it now. 

We've lost plenty of great contributors on this forum. If we lose more...well, that would suck. Just remember that. 

And take a walk outside. It's a nice day...(if you live in LA)


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## dcoscina (Mar 25, 2013)

It's actually a nice day up in Canada too! Well in Toronto. Can't say for Winterpeg and those northern cities, eh.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 25, 2013)

givemenoughrope @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> Talk a walk outside.
> 
> Also, some things you ought to just think quietly to yourself. Why argue? I've done my share over stupid nonsense but I wouldn't do it now.
> 
> ...



I like civil debate. I find it stimulates my thought process and sharpens my outlook as it offers other points of view and forces me to support mine.
 
I detest childish arguments consisting of name calling, over-reaction and angry rhetoric.
In forums, these are always issues. You take the good with the bad or you walk away.


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## MacQ (Mar 25, 2013)

mverta @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> 1. Discussion is seldom free, and open (which is why most people aren't truly honest about their opinions).
> 
> 2. _People_ are not all equal, so it would follow that a forum shows the same social strata present in everyday life. People are_ created_ equal. After that, it's parenting, socialization, and self-respect which determines what you do, and what you were ultimately worth to the human race.
> 
> 3. Do not speak your mind if you can't handle a hailstorm of criticism about your opinion. If your position is that easily rattled, it's a weak position, anyway; and if it's strong, you have the strength of your convictions to weather the storm.



Dead on, Mike.


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## MacQ (Mar 25, 2013)

dcoscina @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> It's actually a nice day up in Canada too! Well in Toronto. Can't say for Winterpeg and those northern cities, eh.



It's beautiful out here in Vancouver. But well, that's just everyday. 8)


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Mar 25, 2013)

lee @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > But really, do we have to put the boot in _quite_ so hard?
> ...





dcoscina @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> I will concur with those who don't wish Moonflare any ill will and certainly don't think it's classy to ridicule him.



Just in case the above criticism was also directed at me, I want to make myself clear that I don't wish this 'Moonflare' guy or girl any ill either, especially since I haven't read any of his previous threads, as far as I remember (I try to stay away from negative threads as much as possible).

I didn't ridicule Moonflare as a person, cause I don't know anything about this human being (other than what he says about himself in this thread).

However, you'll have to admit that if you hadn't read any previous post by Moonflare, this thread, in which he talks about his audience of 'millions' as well as the 'legacy' he's supposed to leave in this forum, would feel quite ridiculous, if not absurd (hence the DVD audio commentary analogy joke I made in my post).

Let's face it, if there's one thing in this thread that might be qualified as 'unclassy', I would say it's Moonflare's malicious insinuations regarding the moral integrity of those who run this forum. That is just wrong, if you ask me.

Please, do not mix up politeness with political correctness, cause that would inevitably lead to exactly the kind of situation Moonflare has been trying to warn us for! :?

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## RiffWraith (Mar 25, 2013)

mverta @ Tue Mar 26 said:


> MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > This forum is neither fair, honest nor objective.
> ...



Bravo!


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## Inductance (Mar 25, 2013)

Moonflare, Regarding the HZ threads... I think you got the responses you got because "HZ ripoff" threads tend to be pretty common around here. Also, it very much seemed like you were just trying to bait HZ into responding.


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## Peter Alexander (Mar 26, 2013)

NYC Composer @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> As joked about regarding CPAC on Bill Maher's show recently -
> 
> "if you're constantly accused of racism? You're probably a racist."



Bunk. That's a Rules For Radicals mantra, Larry.


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## re-peat (Mar 26, 2013)

mverta @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> (...) People are_ created_ equal. (...)


No, they're not. ("People are created equal" is one of those claims which, by merely stating them, actually provides good evidence for the opposite.)

_


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## Ian Dorsch (Mar 26, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> Bunk. That's a Rules For Radicals mantra, Larry.









:wink:


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## RobertPeetersPiano (Mar 26, 2013)

So,

First of all, I had quite the same feelings on another forum. I just decided to leave, because 3/4th of my posts were deleted. It's not that anyone will miss you. You are to 99% of the members just an opinion. 

But, what I don't understand is, why are you yelling at the Moderators? They have a hell of a task, trying to keep the forum up and running. If a Moderator changes something in your topic, it's quite normal that he won't send you a message, telling how sorry he is, but that is is for the greater *blabla*. He has to read EVERY topic and EVERY comment, he simply doesn't have time for that.
Secondly, I think it is very childish to yell at them, and not send them a PM, asking why they did it, and just sort it out privately.


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## Tino Danielzik (Mar 26, 2013)

Whats wrong with you guys?! There wouldn't be any "problems" if you would just stop posting those threads! Really, who cares? Don't you guys have anything else to do, like working on your music projects? Every thread ends up in a competition, could we please stop that and just concentrate on that we are all here for, the music. I prefer 1000 new threads about the use of reverb than one single other thread like this one. I just want a professional opinion about the use of gear, plug ins, orchestration..., that means I accept EVERY opinion and don't expect ONE RIGHT answer. 

Maybe I have to remember you: this is a FORUM not a court.

Regards,
Tino


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## Synesthesia (Mar 26, 2013)

LATEST SHOCK OUTRAGE!

BEAR SH*TS IN WOODS!!

POPE A CATHOLIC!


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## dcoscina (Mar 26, 2013)

Inductance @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> Moonflare, Regarding the HZ threads... I think you got the responses you got because "HZ ripoff" threads tend to be pretty common around here. Also, it very much seemed like you were just trying to bait HZ into responding.



I hope Moonflare doesn't listen to James Horner. Then he'd really have something to be upset about. >8o


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## Guy Bacos (Mar 26, 2013)

Moonflare, On this forum, I've been in 500 fights, including with moderatos, several times thought there was injustice, decided I wouldn't come back a few times, been banned once, been criticized by Zimmer (although we made up after), been criticized by others of this and that. And the list goes on. 

Take what's good and ignore the rest.

Life goes on.


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## dcoscina (Mar 26, 2013)

By our very nature people will have conflicting ideologies. The internet allows everyone the opportunity to voice said opinions in any manner they want with out the recourse that used to dictate social constructs. everyone has been guilty of saying something on the internet they wouldn't have said to another person's face I'm sure (guilty as charged).


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## valexnerfarious (Mar 26, 2013)

im gonna go ahead and apologize for my language now about this moonflare petty high school girl drama...but fuck this guy...seriously its shit like this that runs people off from here...there isnt another forum like this around..why pester and aggravate the ones we all learn things from here who are very successful and very respected that have bigger things to do than to sit and be accused in public of from what i heard is complete bullshit...i dont blame HZ for busting this guys ass....


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## Niah (Mar 26, 2013)

I don't know about you guys but I'm feeling the L.O.V.E. tonight...

gotta love these makeup snuggly moments on VI Control


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## nikolas (Mar 26, 2013)

valexnerfarious @ Tue Mar 26 said:


> im gonna go ahead and apologize for my language now about this moonflare petty high school girl drama...but f#@k this guy...seriously its [email protected]#t like this that runs people off from here...there isnt another forum like this around..why pester and aggravate the ones we all learn things from here who are very successful and very respected that have bigger things to do than to sit and be accused in public of from what i heard is complete [email protected]#t...i dont blame HZ for busting this guys ass....


This was not necessary in any case.

If you have to apologize in advance for lots of swearing then you either:

a. Shouldn't swear so much
b. Don't care to really apologize if you're doing it in any case.

I just posted to the rest of the mods that we should not lock this thread, but allow it to die, but posts like this are not helping at all.


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## valexnerfarious (Mar 26, 2013)

like i said..my bad..just seemed like a slap in the face to repost the exact same thing a he did earlier after getting the response he got on it


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## mverta (Mar 26, 2013)

re-peat @ Tue Mar 26 said:


> mverta @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > (...) People are_ created_ equal. (...)
> ...



Well, if you want to bring eugenics into it, fine, but that's a shade darker than I wanted to go; plus, it's largely semantics in the context. The essential point stands, I think?


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## dcoscina (Mar 26, 2013)

I think the wise thing to do whenever one feels alienated enough to stomp off in a rage is to PM the mods directly and ask them to de-activate your membership. That way if you do have a change of heart, you don't look too foolish. :oops:


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## dgburns (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm reminded of the joke-

how many composers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

answer-

one(with alot of sample libs and pc slaves) and everyone else on vi control to say they would have done it differently...

pls....let's not make this a witchhunt.


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## Justin Miller (Mar 26, 2013)

moving on...

I need some advice on some of the studio construction and gear involved so please visit my post (studio to be built in nashville...) before it disappears :x and lets stop this chaos :D


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## Daniel James (Mar 26, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Tue Mar 26 said:


> LATEST SHOCK OUTRAGE!
> 
> BEAR SH*TS IN WOODS!!
> 
> POPE A CATHOLIC!



Does the pope shit in the woods?

(wonder if anyone actually gets this reference)

On a serious note I have to disagree with the original post here. If anything this is the most honest and open forum I have been a member of. People sometimes take passionate debate as a personal bashing and occasionally things to get heated....but the fact things get that far is an indication of how open it can be.

Firstly the Cinebrass one, I am actually with you on this one a bit. Unless you are really saying something offensive or just plain wrong you shouldn't have your posts changed, that needs to be checked on I think.

The other two posts I think are where things get a little blurry. Now it looks to me like you have neglected to realise that these celeberities and developers are not just entities or myths. They are people. Active community members.

And while I agree there should be no preferential treatment I also think they should not be singled out in a negative context just because of who they are. I mean you essentially made a post that said "None of the developers here know what they doing" forgetting that alot of the members here are developers, who work really hard at what they do.....Imagine if you just spent 2 years making something and someone posted "Moonflare clearly doesn't know what he is doing user x's work is far superior" see how that looks like unfair bashing of another member?

With the Transformers-KingArthur thread you basically came out the gate with Look at how Zimmer is ripping of Transformers how is this legal....Again remember this is a fellow forum member, because he is a celebrity does not grant him special treatment but neither should it give you the right to come out and personally attack his work. Again imagine a thread "Oh wow guys listen to this track Moonflare has made, look how he is shamelessly rips of track x, how is this legal." again you see how unfair this looks to a fellow forum member. 

The reason you don't see threads like that about non celebrities and non developers is,in general, we are all good people here, we have respect and common courtosy to one another. You seem to think that once you become one of those things you are no longer held to the same social standards of another forum member and that you can say whatever you like about them. Or at least that seems to be what you are getting at.

If you have an opinion about a product, then sure fine, say whats bugging you. But before you start saying how terrible a developer is or how composer x is ripping something off or how you donn't like their work, stopand think for a second, would you say this to someone who doesn't have the so called special treatment you claim.

-DJ


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## R.Cato (Mar 27, 2013)

Daniel James @ Wed Mar 27 said:


> Synesthesia @ Tue Mar 26 said:
> 
> 
> > LATEST SHOCK OUTRAGE!
> ...




GTA: San Andreas. 0oD


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## Daniel James (Mar 27, 2013)

R.Cato @ Wed Mar 27 said:


> Daniel James @ Wed Mar 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Synesthesia @ Tue Mar 26 said:
> ...



Haha true, first time I heard it was here though. http://youtu.be/DNvo8glB410?t=53s

-DJ


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 27, 2013)

2 points:
First, honesty and tactlessness are not the same thing. Second, it is not dishonest not to write everything you think.


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## Inductance (Mar 27, 2013)

re-peat @ Tue Mar 26 said:


> mverta @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > (...) People are_ created_ equal. (...)
> ...



Well, to the extent that nothing in the universe was "created," you are correct. :shock: 

(Shameless thread derailment attempt) :mrgreen:


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## Tanuj Tiku (Mar 27, 2013)

What every member should know is this:

This place is a gold mine for those who know what its worth is. Where in the world can you learn from and communicate with some of the finest musicians in the world.

Like any other place, you will find people who are a little off but every now and then there is some good credible information. I agree, there are a handful of people who know what they are talking about but that is the beauty of this place. Luckily for some of us, they do still hang around. 

I have learnt a lot from a few people on this forum as I am sure many will in the future. This is why it is incredibly important to protect this place. I am not hinting towards any censorship - just general over all remark.

I think its a really fun place, some threads make me laugh, others are trivial in nature but I value very deeply some of the threads and what little pieces of important information I can pick up in between.

Great place to learn and exchange thoughts!


Tanuj.


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## Dan Mott (Mar 27, 2013)

I really like this place. Sometimes some posts get on my nerves, but in the end, I think everyone here are pretty cool.

First place I go to when I go on the net :D


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## guydoingmusic (Mar 27, 2013)

mverta @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > Try calling 10 friends on the phone and telling them your plan to kill the President.



Great... now we've got the Secret Service involved. Anyone know why there's a black SUV parked in front of my house?


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## Arbee (Mar 27, 2013)

guydoingmusic @ Thu Mar 28 said:


> mverta @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: That made my morning - thanks for the laugh!

.


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## Caedwallon (Mar 28, 2013)

mverta @ 25th March said:


> 1. Discussion is seldom free, and open (which is why most people aren't truly honest about their opinions). Try calling 10 friends on the phone and telling them your plan to kill the President. Or shouting, "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Or joking with the nice folks at the airport about your laptop bomb.
> 
> 2. _People_ are not all equal, so it would follow that a forum shows the same social strata present in everyday life. People are_ created_ equal. After that, it's parenting, socialization, and self-respect which determines what you do, and what you were ultimately worth to the human race. Some people tap out at Child-Murdering Pedophile.
> 
> ...



Great post but I have to partially disagree with you on #2. People are not _created_ equal. Human biology disagrees. Nature disagrees. People aren't blank slates you can write on. Most of what makes us unique is innate. It's in the genes. Which means some people are naturally better at some things than others. Good parenting further nurtures innate qualities while bad parenting will suppress them.

But yes, you did capture the essentials. I do agree 100% that the contributions one makes ultimately determines one's worth.


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## SergeD (Mar 29, 2013)

Caedwallon @ Fri Mar 29 said:


> mverta @ 25th March said:
> 
> 
> > 2. _People_ are not all equal, so it would follow that a forum shows the same social strata present in everyday life. People are_ created_ equal. After that, it's parenting, socialization, and self-respect which determines what you do, and what you were ultimately worth to the human race. Some people tap out at Child-Murdering Pedophile.
> ...



How about this:

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. -George Orwell


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## Caedwallon (Mar 30, 2013)

SergeD @ 29th March said:


> How about this:
> 
> All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. -George Orwell


Good quote but I seriously doubt that humans are among the "more equal" ones ;/c] .


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## NYC Composer (Mar 31, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Tue Mar 26 said:


> NYC Composer @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > As joked about regarding CPAC on Bill Maher's show recently -
> ...



Peter, I have no idea what a "Rules For Radicals mantra" is. I'm fairly certain I'm not a radical, but if it comforts you to think of me as one, please feel free.  

I do have an online mantra, however. I'm not 'sposed to tell, but what the heck. It's:

"Chillax, dude, it's just words on the InterWeb."


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## Arbee (Mar 31, 2013)

Caedwallon @ Fri Mar 29 said:


> Good parenting further nurtures innate qualities while bad parenting will suppress them.


When it comes to creative expression I'm sadly not sure about this. Ironically, I suspect that good parenting and a lack of childhood trauma can sometimes suppress passionate creative expression rather than nurture it. Good parenting can create well balanced human beings who don't feel the need to obsess at the required level required for trail-blazing excellence. o[]) 

As far as this forum is concerned, I believe it is as good as any forum I've ever been part of. And what I've learnt here is truly invaluable.


.


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## Peter Alexander (Mar 31, 2013)

NYC Composer @ Sun Mar 31 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Tue Mar 26 said:
> 
> 
> > NYC Composer @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> ...



No, Larry, it's not just words on the Internet. That statement is how you target people. You can constantly accuse someone of something that's absolutely NOT true. But when said often enough it becomes the perceived or popular truth used to minimize an individual or a group of people. Sadly, no one ever questions the finger pointer.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 31, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Mar 31 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sun Mar 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Peter Alexander @ Tue Mar 26 said:
> ...



Sorry, Peter, you misinterpreted me, possibly for the second time. I meant ALL words read on a screen are simply words on the Internet, and there are too many of them and too many varying points of view to start getting deeply upset at the ones you disagree with. Passion is wonderful. Temperance is also important. Too much passion tends to lead to anger, overly harsh rhetoric and loss of reason. We see much of this here.

If you disagree with me, I'm fine with that. if you're going to start down a rhetorical path with statements like "a Rules For Radicals mantra,", I doubt we'll achieve any comity. If you tell me what the heck you mean, we just might.

If you want to have a rational discussion of the issue, ok, I'll start:

My parents were very active in the fight for racial equality in the 60's, and as their son, I observed them and the people they interacted with. As a result, I met many people who were most decidedly racist and steadfastly believed they were not. Did you know the context of the Maher line, or were you assuming something different? 
If what you're trying to say (not so easy for me to discern, as you haven't exactly said it) is that all conservatives are not racist, well heck, I know that. I know liberal racists. Most people have some level of xenophobia. And?


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## snowleopard (Apr 4, 2013)

Have to agree with Nikolas for the most part. To stay or go, to post or read, it is your choice. There are many other forums to visit and interact. 

To me, the only "warning" I'd say about this site is that it's a bit of a _hot kitchen_ at times. But that's only because there are a LOT of people here who know what the hell they are talking about. And yeah, sometimes that comes from the staff. Can't handle the heat? Stay out. Or be like me, pop in and out, and hang out on the sidelines when the temperature rises.


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## Eclipse.Sound (Apr 22, 2013)

MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> I've been at this forum for a long time - way longer than what the join date indicates. In fact, I started out on the Northern Sounds forum, where many of you guys come from as well.
> 
> After all the years I've reached a conclusion that is based on solid evidence. This forum is neither fair, honest nor objective. There are three things members of this forum should be aware of:
> 
> ...




Here's my list (and this applies not only to this forum):


1. Post in Offtopic and share your musings - as long the admins share your view - if not - you're "being close to ban"
2. Everything, beside grup hugs and kisses is offensive bigotry
3. Having a hamster instead of brain is highly recomended.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 22, 2013)

Homophobia is not tolerated on this forum, Eclipse.


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## Eclipse.Sound (Apr 22, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon Apr 22 said:


> Homophobia is not tolerated on this forum, Eclipse.



I dont see any "Homophobia" in the things i've wrote - I aked You to show me that and You replied : "i dont have time for your childish games" - such a lack of respect for ideological adversary - everything that's not your idea is childish and stupid - Hitler and Stalin used to have the same approach to the ideological disputes.

Moderators should work like humans, when filtering human text content. 

Not like simple protocol droids with ability to search for banned keywords.


http://rashmanly.files.wordpress.com/20 ... 4d45jh.png



> I suppose that you didn't write this?



Yes - and.. where is so called "Homophobia" ? - i dont see it 
I've said im not afraid (phobia - fear) of Homosexuals i just don't like to look at them naked on the public space. (and quote the whole thing not just one post - it's out of context this way. 

I clearly stated that gays on gay-parades are perverts - but i don't give privilege to naked heterosexuals on the streets aswell - however - they don't cause such problems - so i don't like Homosexual perverts mainly, beacause they putting in-front of me in public - while most heterosexual perverts keep their sexual preferences in their House - were they belong for all people. 

Maybe if You read something carefully and not react on emotions/keywords/instinct - whatever - You will ban less people.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 22, 2013)

Eclipse.Sound @ 22/4/2013 said:


> Patience - it will (i hope :|), meanwhile let sound designers earn some extra cash on little kids, who want to be like skrillex - and let's just hope it will die soon, before we all get ear infection or nystagmus by watching these all-over-body pierced homosexuals so called dubstep artists.



I suppose that you didn't write this?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Apr 22, 2013)

May I kindly ask you all to stop with this stuff? 

VI-Control is about musicians helping musicians.

This is not relevant and it does not fall into the category Universe Repair. If you think it does, please leave the forum.


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## sin(x) (Apr 22, 2013)

Eclipse.Sound @ 2013-04-22 said:


> Yes - and.. where is so called "Homophobia" ? - i dont see it (…) i don't like Homosexual perverts mainly, beacause they putting in-front of me in public



Is the Insane Clown Posse fan forum leaking?


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## Guy Rowland (Apr 22, 2013)

Wow. It's like all those folks who start sentences with "I'm not a racist, but..."


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 22, 2013)

Lowered hackles all around, please.

Two reported posts this morning.


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## Eclipse.Sound (Apr 22, 2013)

Peter Emanuel Roos @ Mon Apr 22 said:


> May I kindly ask you all to stop with this stuff?
> 
> VI-Control is about musicians helping musicians.
> 
> This is not relevant and it does not fall into the category Universe Repair. If you think it does, please leave the forum.



Of course you can ask, but i dont know what kind of stuff you have in mind - like i've said there's no Homophobic content in my posts.

Whats "Universe Repair" ? will you care to share that with the rest of the class?

You're somekind of communist or "more-than-godly-being", neglecting the proper order of Universe ? the problem of this world lays in Humans not in universe.

And if You say "This is not relevant" i hope you have some constructive arguments.



> VI-Control is about musicians helping musicians.



I can see, that main part of VI-Control is about music - that's why i post in Off-topic.




> Is the Insane Clown Posse fan forum leaking?



I've gogole it -

No, i don't like this kind of music.


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## germancomponist (Apr 22, 2013)

Hey, let's have a beer together! o-[][]-o


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## nikolas (Apr 22, 2013)

Message to all the members, except eclipse: Disregard anything (s)he says. There's no reason to quote, reply, or act to her/his posts! Let it be!


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## Eclipse.Sound (Apr 22, 2013)

nikolas @ Mon Apr 22 said:


> Message to all the members, except eclipse: Disregard anything (s)he says. There's no reason to quote, reply, or act to her/his posts! Let it be!


Yes Mein fuhrer - we, mindless sheeps will obey your every word - because we are to dumb to make up our own decision (o::o)


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Apr 22, 2013)

Eclipse.Sound @ Mon Apr 22 said:


> Peter Emanuel Roos @ Mon Apr 22 said:
> 
> 
> > May I kindly ask you all to stop with this stuff?
> ...



You are very close to get banned - I made a kind request and you are replying that I have a certain political orientation?

Behave, stop these rants, you have been reported to the other moderators. We don't like to go easy on banning, but we also want keep this a friendly place.


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