# The best plan for getting started?



## Awoo Composer (Jun 24, 2022)

When it comes to making music, I'm extremely new, maybe a month old or just slightly longer. I've purchased a few courses on cinematic/orchestral composing that I'm working through, however the only instrument skills I have are guitar skills, and when it comes to MIDI that's not the best way to do things unfortunately. When it comes to making my own tunes I'm pretty bad at it as expected.

I have purchased a Novation Launchkey MK3 37 key as a controller. I'm not sure how I vibe with it though, the velocity feels weird to me (even after tweaking) and I have a very light touch. I also am horrible at playing it. I have another (61) key yamaha I got to learn keyboard with, and I don't have the desk space to use that instead. The yamaha is mostly for actually practicing / coming up with ideas that I could take into my DAW.

As far as libraries go, I have the full version of Kontakt and BBCSO Discover as well as Nucleus Lite. When it comes to orchestrating, I'm conflicted on the whole ensemble versus section based thing as I'm not a keyboard player and as a guitar player (in the metal music style) I really am used to only having to play a single role at a time, whereas on piano for example you can really do both (harmony in one hand, melody in the other). Unfortunately my guitar skills didn't translate to any hand independence on the piano (bummer!)

I guess I'm wondering - *what should the expectations be as a beginner to all this stuff?* I know I have to keep my ADHD in check in knowing it's going to take a *while* before I make significant progress. I understand the basics of music theory and can make a few chord progressions in my DAW but it's mostly very simple harmony lines at this point. I can make melodies for a single section but when it comes to building a song out of it that's where I falter right now.

I am trying not to overspend on libraries, knowing that I have enough to get started with, however my shaky playing skills usually means I can't make use of them too well (and I can't figure out how to draw in modulation curves in FL studio). I'm conflicted between Nucleus full and BBCSO Core when they go on sale. I thought about Symphonic Destruction by Heavyocity since it's on sale for a great price but I think that's a bit too niche as well as Albion One and Metropolis Ark 1 but those are ensemble based and I honestly think I may prefer having more control over things while I learn the principles of orchestration.

The courses I bought are teaching me a lot, it's just a bit harder for me when I watch them come up with stuff on the keyboard as my hands fight me all the way. What are going to be the best goals / things I should be doing for me as I delve in deeper?


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## EanS (Jun 24, 2022)

Best plan for getting started is:

Milk the most you can with the libraries that you already have. 

I'm not focused on business or living from it but what I learned lately in these past 2 years is how to use the midi editor and how to understand better your available articulations. Worse thing you can do is adding more libraries that don't match articulations, so first compose what you can, cheat (get midi files and make them sound proper) and mock, check your timings, how long you spend fighting on a couple of notes to sound well, panning, mixing mastering. 

Then share and don't care, keep creating, sharing and not caring. My favorite inspiration as composer is Stevie Wonder, he wasn't that great he said himself, what did he do to be that awesome? He composed like 5 songs a day. So you can picture how many crap he has made and we aren't aware. People here don't dare to share enough, looking for perfection, but perfection doesn't exist, what you get is product of consistency. But I don't compose... 🤣

In Studio one, after you recorded the notes or chords in that track you just go back and record again and just use the wheelmod during that recording, it writes automatically the modulation without deleting notes. Try that but better look for how to Automation on FL Studio.


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## Awoo Composer (Jun 24, 2022)

EanS said:


> Best plan for getting started is:
> 
> Milk the most you can with the libraries that you already have.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Yes, I have basic spiccato and sustain patches I can get started with. I think I have 4 or 5 ideas that blossomed into FL studio files (and one I might be able to take further than just an intro/A section). There's a lot of good resources and I think I am starting to retain the information I've taken in on music theory as well as the basic orchestration principles like voice leading.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 25, 2022)

I recommend doing something I should have done when I was learning the ropes many years ago….invest in formal piano lessons. Not online, but in-person with a professional piano teacher. It will open up a whole new world if possibilities with your composition skills.


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## Justin L. Franks (Jun 26, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> When it comes to orchestrating, I'm conflicted on the whole ensemble versus section based thing as I'm not a keyboard player and as a guitar player (in the metal music style) I really am used to only having to play a single role at a time, whereas on piano for example you can really do both (harmony in one hand, melody in the other). Unfortunately my guitar skills didn't translate to any hand independence on the piano (bummer!)
> 
> The courses I bought are teaching me a lot, it's just a bit harder for me when I watch them come up with stuff on the keyboard as my hands fight me all the way. What are going to be the best goals / things I should be doing for me as I delve in deeper?


Luckily you don't need to be able to play harmonies and melodies at the same time. Just do them separately.

Piano lessons can help as other people have mentioned. It's difficult for me to say whether having a good grasp of the piano is absolutely required for composing, as I have 20 years of lessons and over 30 years of playing experience. But since composing orchestral music with sample libraries is mainly recording individual parts, or chords and harmonies which are then split out across various tracks and instruments, I would think that you don't need much more playing ability than the basics.


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## JCarlsen (Jun 27, 2022)

I started messing around with the piano two years ago and i would say that its not necessary to be a piano professional. But understanding the layout of the piano has been very helpful in understanding how harmony and melody come together. Piano is to me a simpler instrument to explain these concepts on than for example a guitar because its more visual. I played guitar for 20 years without understanding what was actually happening musically when i hit the strings.

My two cents:
From my own experience starting two years ago - by no means necessarily whats right for you.

- Books
- Music Theory: From beginner to expert - Its just a great book to explain most of the concepts you will face. I always have it handy when I need to brush up on certain concepts.
- Is theory required
- Short answer, yes. It takes a week to learn the basic concepts, save yourself the agony and just learn it. I like a book on this as its easier to grab and look up concepts in the index than refinding a video. 

- Learn basic piano, i did it on a keystation 32. But since you are a guitarist i would go theory first. The piano made more sense to me after I read the book above. You will now how to form any chord and any scale after reading the book. 

- Learning Notation
- Very useful to see what other composers have done. You dont need to be very good at it. Just enough to understand what the various instruments are doing to create a sound you like. The same author i mentioned above has a short & sweet book on it that takes a couple of days to read through and get a basic grasp of the concepts. - In the end this is optional imo.

- Sample libraries
- Two reasons I get new ones
- I dont have a library that provides what i need
- A library inspires me to write
- I started with Nucleus and its wonderful. BBCSO is equally good but i give the edge to Nucleus because I prefer the sound and usability(multitimbral).
- Have later switched to the CS series but Nucleus is almost always part of what i write in some way. 

-Course
- Many many good ones
- The standout for me was Orchestration recipes series
- More than giving you a whole host of ways to write tunes, it taught me how to go about orchestrating a tune(ie. what instruments, articulations and so on to use), and how you can create your own recipes based on what you like to listen to.

Other than that i would say just keep hammering away and eventually you will be able to smash your head through the brickwall. Like anything it takes time, patience and discipline to get good at. Compare yourself to what you were able to do yesterday, not to what other people can do.


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## NekujaK (Jun 27, 2022)

All of the above posts offer excellent advice. Allow me to take a slightly different slant...

If you're serious about learning "proper" orchestration, then courses and books are definitely the best place to start. But as you're studying, I would recommend diving in and starting to make music. Don't worry about the results - it might be terrible, but that's okay. What's important is that you start working with your tools and become familiar with them and your composing workflow.

Give yourself small exercises - like writing one minute's worth of music, writing only using strings, writing for 3 instruments only, etc.

You don't need to be a competent piano player to compose. You can always enter notes in the MIDI editor. I've played piano ever since taking lessons as a kid, but when composing, I only play in about 25% of the parts - most of my notes are entered manually in the MIDI grid. If you're comfortable using a notation app, that's even better.

Now here's the most important advice...

Find recordings that inspire you and try to emulate them (start small and easy, taking on Beethoven's 5th is not necessary). Not only will you learn how the music is constructed, but you'll also improve your listening skills at the same time. Plus you'll have a defineable goal, as opposed to composing an open-ended piece, which can often lead to frustration. Perfection is not the goal here - just try to emulate the piece as best you can. Regardless of the result, the process itself is where all the learning happens.

Do this as often as you can, and you will get better and better at it, and your compositional skills will improve accordingly.

Good luck and enjoy the ride!


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## Awoo Composer (Jun 27, 2022)

JCarlsen said:


> I started messing around with the piano two years ago and i would say that its not necessary to be a piano professional. But understanding the layout of the piano has been very helpful in understanding how harmony and melody come together. Piano is to me a simpler instrument to explain these concepts on than for example a guitar because its more visual. I played guitar for 20 years without understanding what was actually happening musically when i hit the strings.
> 
> My two cents:
> From my own experience starting two years ago - by no means necessarily whats right for you.
> ...


I actually started learning some music theory a few months ago. It's definitely been helpful, but it really became much more helpful when I got a keyboard because the white/black keys just make finding scales/chords much more intuitive than anything on the guitar. I'm slowly learning notation, thankfully even though I'm a tab user I have the notation turned on just because I like seeing both instead of just one. 

I have Nucleus lite and I definitely want to make a move to the full version of Nucleus when it goes on sale. That or BBCSO Core; I haven't decided yet. I like Nucleus though because it's very lightweight and for me I like the sound I can easily get from it.

Course-wise I have a few; thanks to Alex Moukala I signed up for Evenant's Cinematic Music Writing bundle, (before it went on sale, of course). It's been extremely helpful. Although when they get to the part of creating their own entire tune I get lost because of what they are doing on the piano. I've been trying to slowly follow along. I also have the Fundamentals of Music Composition course that was discounted which is nice because it's more focused on the classical composition of music, not necessarily cinematic.



NekujaK said:


> All of the above posts offer excellent advice. Allow me to take a slightly different slant...
> 
> If you're serious about learning "proper" orchestration, then courses and books are definitely the best place to start. But as you're studying, I would recommend diving in and starting to make music. Don't worry about the results - it might be terrible, but that's okay. What's important is that you start working with your tools and become familiar with them and your composing workflow.
> 
> ...


I actually started to take tunes I enjoy (video game music, and metal music) and try to arrange them in an orchestra using my sample libraries. I did use some MIDI for the video game stuff, but I was able to begin an orchestration of For Whom The Bell Tolls by Metallica using some guitar tabs my instructor gave me when learning the song. I think I spent a good 4-5 hours this weekend on working on that stuff and it was really enjoyable. It was also only done using Nucleus Lite, which is where I see why ensembles can be very powerful, although I already yearn for having a bit more control (I do have Kontakt's Factory Library that can help at least).


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## Voider (Jun 27, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> I guess I'm wondering - *what should the expectations be as a beginner to all this stuff?*


Keep expectations low, just have fun making music and enjoy the process without comparing yourself to where you once want to be to avoid the feeling of discourage  Music should be (mostly) fun whenever you do it, not something that you can't enjoy until you've reached a certain point. You just need to be easy on yourself and your compositions, it's fine that they sound how they sound right now. 



Awoo Composer said:


> I can make melodies for a single section but when it comes to building a song out of it that's where I falter right now.


When you compose, think of what you want to express with your song or a specific part first, then ideas should come in naturally. If you know your next part is going to be dark and powerful, that already rules out happy melodies, major chord progressions, soft and gentle instruments and so on. This way - if you know where you want to go with a part - you can make choices based on your needs. 



Awoo Composer said:


> (and I can't figure out how to draw in modulation curves in FL studio)


Long ago that I used it but there is a function where you can automate the last tweaked parameter: 



Awoo Composer said:


> but those are ensemble based and I honestly think I may prefer having more control over things while I learn the principles of orchestration.


I honestly think that ensembles are great for starting out, because one shouldn't overwhelm himself by making things even more complicated while still learning the basics. First learn to make great compositions with ensembles, if you can do that, you can still upgrade and work with single sections. Taking one step at a time creates less frustration, more accomplishments and therefore should be more fun  



Awoo Composer said:


> What are going to be the best goals / things I should be doing for me as I delve in deeper?


I'd say learn basic and intermediate music theory and work on your piano playing skills, since that will be the most powerful tool you'll have for quickly sketching out ideas - and don't worry, they don't even need to be close to a trained pianist for you to enjoy jamming and being performant when composing. Everthing else will naturally fall into place at the right time, because the better you get at these things, the easier you'll figure out what you need.


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## Trash Panda (Jun 27, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> When it comes to making music, I'm extremely new, maybe a month old or just slightly longer. I've purchased a few courses on cinematic/orchestral composing that I'm working through, however the only instrument skills I have are guitar skills, and when it comes to MIDI that's not the best way to do things unfortunately. When it comes to making my own tunes I'm pretty bad at it as expected.
> 
> I have purchased a Novation Launchkey MK3 37 key as a controller. I'm not sure how I vibe with it though, the velocity feels weird to me (even after tweaking) and I have a very light touch. I also am horrible at playing it. I have another (61) key yamaha I got to learn keyboard with, and I don't have the desk space to use that instead. The yamaha is mostly for actually practicing / coming up with ideas that I could take into my DAW.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're literally in the same position I was when I started (guitar playing metalhead). Feel free to hit me up if you have any specific questions as this has been an expensive rollercoaster of a hobby progression and I'm happy to help those of a similar mindset save a few bucks and avoid a few regret purchases.


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## Awoo Composer (Jun 27, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Sounds like you're literally in the same position I was when I started (guitar playing metalhead). Feel free to hit me up if you have any specific questions as this has been an expensive rollercoaster of a hobby progression and I'm happy to help those of a similar mindset save a few bucks and avoid a few regret purchases.


I feel like the pipeline of metalhead guitarist to orchestral composer is a very rare pipeline  (although, Geezer Butler of Black Sabbath quoted The Planets as inspiration for what was the beginning of metal music), I'd love any advice as I can see how this can be a money pit of a hobby just like guitars can be (my starter guitar lasted me 3 months... maybe, and then that new guitar lasted me a good 7 months before I figured I wanted something nicer, now I think I'm done for a bit lol)


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## GtrString (Jun 27, 2022)

You should start with some ideas on what type of music you’d like to make, as libraries cater to very different types of music. Don’t let libraries control what you write. Take charge.

Find a few reference tracks or composers, and use those to choose things. That way you accustom yourself to be driven by needs rather than wants.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 27, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> I feel like the pipeline of metalhead guitarist to orchestral composer is a very rare pipeline  (although, Geezer Butler of Black Sabbath quoted The Planets as inspiration for what was the beginning of metal music), I'd love any advice as I can see how this can be a money pit of a hobby just like guitars can be (my starter guitar lasted me 3 months... maybe, and then that new guitar lasted me a good 7 months before I figured I wanted something nicer, now I think I'm done for a bit lol)


If it’s any consolation, my prior music training was that of a Metal drummer for the past 30 years (and still going). You just need to find which learning method works the best for you personally. Music is music .


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## Trash Panda (Jun 27, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> I feel like the pipeline of metalhead guitarist to orchestral composer is a very rare pipeline  (although, Geezer Butler of Black Sabbath quoted The Planets as inspiration for what was the beginning of metal music), I'd love any advice as I can see how this can be a money pit of a hobby just like guitars can be (my starter guitar lasted me 3 months... maybe, and then that new guitar lasted me a good 7 months before I figured I wanted something nicer, now I think I'm done for a bit lol)


From a "what to buy" perspective, there are a few main questions to answer before anyone can make a credible recommendation.

What type of orchestral music do you want to make? There is a big difference between Mahler chorales, Williams Star Wars-esque cinema, Two Steps from Hell/trailer music, JRPG music, Symphonic Metal backing tracks, etc.
What matters most, the sonority (sound of the room/recording), the baked-in performance, or flexibility to shape the performance?
What is your budget?


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## Awoo Composer (Jun 27, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> From a "what to buy" perspective, there are a few main questions to answer before anyone can make a credible recommendation.
> 
> What type of orchestral music do you want to make? There is a big difference between Mahler chorales, Williams Star Wars-esque cinema, Two Steps from Hell/trailer music, JRPG music, Symphonic Metal backing tracks, etc.
> What matters most, the sonority (sound of the room/recording), the baked-in performance, or flexibility to shape the performance?
> What is your budget?


Type: It leans more towards cinematic/video game. It'd be nice to have some flexibility between epic and more subdued. It'd be fun to make symphonic metal but my playing skills just aren't there yet and I imagine they will need a decent amount of time to develop before I could reliably make backing tracks I could use.
Room doesn't bother me honestly, it's mostly overall sound, ease of use, resource consumption and the flexibility to easily expand in the future.
Budget: That's a tough one. Not more than $800 on sale I'd say.


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## JCarlsen (Jun 27, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> Type: It leans more towards cinematic/video game. It'd be nice to have some flexibility between epic and more subdued. It'd be fun to make symphonic metal but my playing skills just aren't there yet and I imagine they will need a decent amount of time to develop before I could reliably make backing tracks I could use.
> Room doesn't bother me honestly, it's mostly overall sound, ease of use, resource consumption and the flexibility to easily expand in the future.
> Budget: That's a tough one. Not more than $800 on sale I'd say.


Cinematic Studio series is often mentioned on here for its versatility


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