# Mac guy could use advice on VEP6 streaming PC build



## Joe_D (Dec 21, 2016)

Hi all,

I’m a longtime Mac guy who is very comfortable with mucking around with electronics and problem solving, and I used to code. But, I don’t know PC architecture or even really Windows except through reading about them.

My little Mac Mini (Quad core i7, 2.3 GHz, 16GB RAM, Int SSD, DP and VEP6) just isn’t up to simultaneously streaming my many Kontakt libraries, or up to running all of the SampleModeling winds and brass simultaneously. My reading here indicates pretty strongly that I’d be better off adding a PC rather than another Mac via VEP6, so I guess it’s time to build a PC. I’ll use my Mac Mini for my DAW and maybe some additional streaming, but rely upon the PC for most of the heavy lifting. I am thinking I should make the PC quiet in case it ends up in my control room, but I may house it in another room.

I’ve read through many of the build threads here, tried to pick up very basic PC architecture, watched build videos, and researched parts somewhat. Here’s my starting-point plan:

Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad Core Processor (I will probably overclock it)

Noctua NH-D15 CPU Cooler

Asus Z170-E ATX LGA1151 Motherboard

Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 RAM

Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (system)

Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD (samples)

Fractal Design Define R5 ATX Case

Corsair CSM 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular Power Supply

Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit

(maybe add a cheap optical drive?)

(maybe no video card…after setup using Asus onboard video, use Real VNC for remote control without a monitor?)

* * *

That’s all adding up to a bit more than $1500.

Questions:

Any parts problems or conflicts that I am not seeing?

Any more powerful ways to go for the same price, or any way to significantly reduce the cost for about the same performance (while keeping it quiet)?

Am I OK without the optical drive? Can I just use an old USB external optical drive to install Windows?

Am I OK without a video card, considering that I won’t be looking at it much and won’t have a monitor attached after it is set up (Real VNC is said to work well)?

The R5 case has two fans, the Corsair PS has a fan, and I included the Noctua NH-D15 CPU cooler. Do I need another (Noctua NF-F12) case fan, as I saw in a few R5 builds here?

I am leaving the M.2 socket empty so that when prices come down, I can add a substantial Samsung 960 M.2 SSD there. Good idea, bad idea?

I would appreciate any insights or info.

Thanks,

Joe


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## khollister (Dec 21, 2016)

You're not too far off - a few suggestions and things to think about:

If you are certain this will always be a slave, then consideration of Thunderbolt support won't matter. Also make sure the motherboard you choose has compatible monitor connectors (DVI vs DisplayPort) if you are going to use the internal graphics.
EVGA power supplies tend to have a better reputation and track record these days than Corsiar/Seasonic. You may also want to find one that is semi-active, i.e. doesn't run the fan under light or even moderate load.
I believe the R5 (and R4 which is what I use) have 140mm case fans, not 120mm. The reason you see folks buying Noctua case fans is not to add more, but the replace the Fractal ones, especially the rear one due to noise.
The D15 is a great cooler but may be overkill unless you are going for an epic OC. The D15S has the same fin and heat pipe size, but with a single fan (a 2nd can be added) and a slightly offset fin arrangement to better clear RAM. You could start there and then add a second Noctua 140mm PWM fan if you want to bring the CPU temps down more.
It's more money, but I'm using a 850 PRO for the boot drive rather than EVO's (which I do use for samples) due to better write performance and longevity. Amazon has good prices on the PRO vs Newegg right now.
SSD performance for sample streaming purposes is all about small size random read (usually similar to the 4k random read benchmarks) - the impressive 3 GBs sequential numbers for NVME drives have little to do with what we will use them for. While the 950 PRO has better 4k random read performance than the 850 PRO, it's more like 30% not the 300% for large sequential transfers. Furthermore, the M.2 blade SSD's have no heat spreaders and all will eventually throttle their performance to control temperature rise. Another related issue is the location of the M.2 sockets on many motherboards, which doesn't promote good cooling to begin with (buried down between PCIe cards for example). And then there is the cost as well as getting that performance requires 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes, and the 6700k is limited to 16 lanes. If I were going to use NVME M.2 drives, it would be on a PCIe card with heatsink or heat spreaders for the blades, and the cost would need to come down substantially.
If you really want multiple M.2 NVME drives, thunderbolt, USB-3.1, multiple 4k monitors, etc you are in X99 Broadwell-EP territory and the cost goes up (+$100-250 for the MB and +$250 for a 40 lane 6 core CPU).

I wouldn't get too caught up in M.2 fever on a budget 6700k build. Stick with the 850 EVO's. And Make sure you have an Intel LAN on board, not Realtek or Killer.


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## khollister (Dec 21, 2016)

Oh, and Most Windows 10 packages I've seen come with USB install media, not DVD's. Also, Microsoft has a free OS X Remote Desktop client that works great - very fast and responsive.


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## JohnG (Dec 21, 2016)

Hi there,

Seems like lot of good ideas from khollister, although I confess some of its details, such as which CPU fan to get, are beyond my expertise.

Your power supply seems a bit light. I usually get 650-750 watts.

I keep reading about pcpartpicker.com which purports to help one avoid conflicts in PC builds. I have never used it, but it might not be crazy to run your build through there just to see if any blinking lights or red alerts or something show up.

Good luck!

Kind regards,

John


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## khollister (Dec 21, 2016)

If you are going to stick with the integrated graphics on the 6700, a 450W PS is probably OK. If you think you might install a more robust card for 3D or gaming use, then you likely need a larger PS. Many of the high power graphics cards use more power than the CPU.


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## gsilbers (Dec 21, 2016)

power supply.... it might be better to up it.


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## gsilbers (Dec 21, 2016)

also, if you are finding out components for pc. 
try magic micro 
http://magicmicro.com/smoreinfo.asp?iid=10212

you can see the components that are ocmpatitble with each mobo etc. you kinda see the prices etc or get a custom part like a quiter coolants/etc and then ordet the parts yourself and buildit yourself. you will see the parts you need that might be missing etc. do research on each. it helped me out. 

im not a windows guy at all and ended up getting the parts and doing it myself. 
i got a mobo with 128gb ram and i7 which went beyond my building skills (0) and it worked. for very low price. 
but doing the reseach took forever. there are so many variables.


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## Joe_D (Dec 21, 2016)

Thanks so much for taking the time to write that all up, khollister! Lots of good stuff for me to research and digest. I've started that process, and have comments and a few questions interspersed below. I don't think that this machine will be anything but a VI sample streamer and number cruncher (for SampleModeling and effects), and the only thing I'll be likely to add in the future is storage (and maybe cooling if necessary). 


khollister said:


> Also make sure the motherboard you choose has compatible monitor connectors (DVI vs DisplayPort) if you are going to use the internal graphics.


The Asus MB onboard video supports simultaneous HDMI and DVI-D monitors, and the rear panel has both connectors. I assume that means that they are ready to go, and I should be ready to hook up the DVI-D to my monitor (with a DVI-D cable). Or am I missing the meaning of your comment?


khollister said:


> EVGA power supplies tend to have a better reputation and track record these days than Corsiar/Seasonic. You may also want to find one that is semi-active, i.e. doesn't run the fan under light or even moderate load.


I swapped out an EVGA semi-active modular PS; thanks. (new draft of parts list will be posted shortly)


khollister said:


> I believe the R5 (and R4 which is what I use) have 140mm case fans, not 120mm. The reason you see folks buying Noctua case fans is not to add more, but the replace the Fractal ones, especially the rear one due to noise.


The noise specs on the R5 fans (Fractal Design Dynamic GP14) are similar to the Noctua ones, although the Noctua lists varied fan speeds while the Fractal lists just 1000 rpm. It looks like the Noctua allows PWM control; Is that the difference? If so, maybe I should spring a few bucks for the Noctua....


khollister said:


> The D15 is a great cooler but may be overkill…The D15S has the same fin and heat pipe size, but with a single fan (a 2nd can be added)….


 Will go with the D15S, thanks. Though, would a more efficient cooler enable better overclocking performance?


khollister said:


> …I'm using a 850 PRO for the boot drive rather than EVO's (which I do use for samples) due to better write performance and longevity…


 Just for streaming, etc., will I be writing to the boot drive much? (I don't know Windows' write habits).


khollister said:


> [*]…the impressive 3 GBs sequential numbers for NVME drives have little to do with what we will use them for…I wouldn't get too caught up in M.2 fever on a budget 6700k build. Stick with the 850 EVO's.


All good logic; will do.


khollister said:


> And Make sure you have an Intel LAN on board, not Realtek or Killer.


I hadn't thought of this. The Asus does have the Intel I219-V LAN chipset (10/100/1000Mbps), thankfully.

And I'm glad to hear that I can get by without an optical dinosaur. I assume that the BIOS has rudimentary generic drivers for the USB ports, keyboard, mouse, display, and optical drives. Is that how it is able to connect to those things before Windows is installed (seems like it must be)? One of the reasons I am leaning towards the Asus (besides rgames success with it, its onboard video (which I'll barely use), specs, and the relatively low cost) is that the BIOS is supposed to be easy to deal with and tweakable.

Once again, I appreciate all of your help.


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## Joe_D (Dec 21, 2016)

Hi JohnG - thanks for the reply. I have been playing with pcpartspicker. It's a good resource, and isn't showing any conflicts. And I did up my power supply a bit (though without a graphics card, I think I'm OK; the drives I might add down the road won't draw much wattage).

gsilbers - thanks also; glad to hear that you were successful. I did start to play around with magicmicro after you posted; good idea.


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## Joe_D (Dec 21, 2016)

So, here is draft two of a possible parts list:

Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad Core Processor (I will probably overclock it)

Noctua NH-D15S CPU Cooler

Asus Z170-E ATX LGA1151 Motherboard

Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 RAM

Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (system)

Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD (samples)

Fractal Design Define R5 ATX Case

EVGA SuperNOVA 80+ Gold Fully Modular 550W PS

Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit

(maybe one Noctua NF-F12 fan for the rear of the case)

- - -

Also, do I have to buy cables? Like SATA III cables for the drives? Screws for mounting drives, etc? Anything else I might be missing? (the CPU cooler comes with thermal compound; guess I'm set there).

Thanks again!


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## URL (Dec 22, 2016)

Graphics Card is important I use Asus Gforce 1060 3Gb but you have to make room for that typ of Card.

Anyone done optimization of win 10 from this recommendation?


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## khollister (Dec 22, 2016)

Joe_D said:


> The Asus MB onboard video supports simultaneous HDMI and DVI-D monitors, and the rear panel has both connectors. I assume that means that they are ready to go, and I should be ready to hook up the DVI-D to my monitor (with a DVI-D cable). Or am I missing the meaning of your comment?



Motherboards vary in exactly what video connectors they provide for the Intel CPU on-board graphics. Most/all have HDMI (most will only do [email protected] Hz) but some have DVI and some have DisplayPort. And the actual graphics processor is in the 6700k CPU - the MB only provides the implementation of the output protocol (HDMI, DVI or DP).



> The noise specs on the R5 fans (Fractal Design Dynamic GP14) are similar to the Noctua ones, although the Noctua lists varied fan speeds while the Fractal lists just 1000 rpm. It looks like the Noctua allows PWM control; Is that the difference? If so, maybe I should spring a few bucks for the Noctua....



The issue with some of the Fractal fans isn't the overall noise level but a bearing noise that can be rather annoying, if relatively quiet. The Noctua fans are just the white noise of the air moving - no other mechanical noise to stick out like a sore thumb. Your particular case fans may be quiet - seems to be bit of a crap shoot.



> Will go with the D15S, thanks. Though, would a more efficient cooler enable better overclocking performance?



The difference between the D15 and D15S (aside from the single fan) is the S has a tweaked fin configuration to provide more RAM clearance. It comes with the clips to mount a 2nd fan (Noctua NF-A15 PWM is what you want) if needed. The D15 doesn't have the offset design. The D15 will likely fit with the low profile LPX RAM, but I got the D15S + a second fan for maximum flexibility (more money doing it separately though). Whether you need the 2nd fan depends on how aggressive you get on the OC.




> Just for streaming, etc., will I be writing to the boot drive much? (I don't know Windows' write habits).



Windows is probably similar to OS X in what gets written routinely (log files, downloads, updates, registry changes and swap file if you don't disable it). The 256GB PRO is only $129, so I decided to go big. The EVO will probably be fine.



> I assume that the BIOS has rudimentary generic drivers for the USB ports, keyboard, mouse, display, and optical drives. Is that how it is able to connect to those things before Windows is installed (seems like it must be)? One of the reasons I am leaning towards the Asus (besides rgames success with it, its onboard video (which I'll barely use), specs, and the relatively low cost) is that the BIOS is supposed to be easy to deal with and tweakable.



Yes, you can hook up a keyboard & mouse and work in the BIOS. The Windows Installer has drivers for anything you need to get running. I would recommend downloading and installing the latest vendor-specific drivers for the LAN (get from Intel's site), 3rd party USB/SATA controllers on the motherboard (ASMedia or Marvell).

The Asus UEFI BIOS is easy to navigate but like any modern MB, there are a bazillion options. I would get everything setup and working smoothly without OC'ing first and then tackle that.


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## khollister (Dec 22, 2016)

URL said:


> Graphics Card is important I use Asus Gforce 1060 3Gb but you have to make room for that typ of Card.



The OP is just building a slave he will drive via Remote Desktop - no need for anything other than the integrated Intel graphics since the only time he will need/use the monitor is initial setup and whenever he needs to get into the BIOS.


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## khollister (Dec 22, 2016)

URL said:


> Anyone done optimization of win 10 from this recommendation?




There are some dubious recommendations in the video IMHO. I think there is already a Windows 10 configuration thread here - let's not pollute the OP's thread with this.


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## URL (Dec 22, 2016)

khollister said:


> There are some dubious recommendations in the video IMHO. I think there is already a Windows 10 configuration thread here - let's not pollute the OP's thread with this.



Okey sorry I miss the Graphics Card part -I would not use this optimization thanks for your answer.


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## khollister (Dec 22, 2016)

Side note - waiting on Fedex to delivery my Big Box 'O Computer Parts from Newegg so I can start my new DAW PC build for Cubase. i7-6850K based machine hopefully coming on line later tonight


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## Joe_D (Dec 22, 2016)

khollister said:


> Side note - waiting on Fedex to delivery my Big Box 'O Computer Parts from Newegg so I can start my new DAW PC build for Cubase. i7-6850K based machine hopefully coming on line later tonight


I hope that your build goes well and comes together quickly. Once again, I appreciate your help.

I've been researching nonstop and am ordering parts. I'll probably be updating this thread when things arrive and it either works or doesn't.


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## URL (Dec 23, 2016)

I7 6850 is a nice choose for daw-do the job in my setup.


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## khollister (Dec 23, 2016)

It's alive  Everything is running OK, running @ 4.0 GHz right now, core temps staying under 35C so far, configuring Windows and applying updates.

Word of advice - the CPU 12V connector and a couple of the fan headers are all but impossible to get connected once the MB is installed and the D15S is attached. Either connect the cables before bolting the MB in the Fractal case or attach the cooler last. The damn thing is huge and covers up a bunch of stuff, at least on the X99 boards.


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