# OK, now I'm really scared. Big trailer company wants me and I'm not a trailer composer



## William The Concurer (Jun 27, 2022)

_Very_ recently (and I mean, meteoric in its development) I was emailed by a LA trailer company, who shall remain nameless. Initially I thought it was a scam; having checked out what they've done it seemed too good to be true. I like some trailer music, but much of it has become a giant, epic, pain in the head.

After checking their authenticity, and within just a few days, I had a Zoom meeting with them, and they are, indeed real. They've been doing Disney, Marvel, etc., etc, and my music came up in a playlist from a client of theirs.

After their initial contact I agreed to send them a playlist. It's _music_; and not trailer format ( whatever that might be these days), but they are adamant that I have what it takes to succeed. Very flattering, 'cos I don't quite share that view. Weird, huh? Well, I guess some of what I sent is massive, symphonic and, um, good. Some of it might be a bit like Alan Silvestri. Fair enough, then.

So, within 20 minutes of ending the Zoom meeting I received an agreement! In the meeting, it was all very friendly and informal, and we agreed that I'd come up with two tracks, just to test the water. No pressure. Really, they said that.

Now I have to squeeze my precious music ( don't worry, self-irony there) into this genre structure. Fun. Actually, I'm hearing a horror movie soundtrack screeching in my head, as I attempt to start on this.

I been, er, agonising on how to approach this. But they said don't worry: just do something and you'll eventually work your way into it. This has all happened in about one week. That's why I'm coming to a forum I respect above all others. 

Any thoughts on this mini-epic? I'm serious: I'm quite anxious, as I saw what some of the potential sync figures were, and just ten high-end syncs could buy me a house. Cough. There goes another testicle.

Many thanks for any opinions, and let's keep it fun.

-W


----------



## robgb (Jun 27, 2022)

Get an agent.


----------



## Gingerbread (Jun 27, 2022)

You're being forced out of your comfort zone into a new adventure. That's a good thing!


----------



## William The Concurer (Jun 27, 2022)

robgb said:


> Get an agent.


But then I'll only be able to afford a skip to live in


----------



## el-bo (Jun 27, 2022)

William The Concurer said:


> Any thoughts on this mini-epic?


Yeah! Stop with the anxious coughing. By my calculations (And I am no mathematician), you're at your limit of testicles that can be lost. Who knows what’ll be next to go? 

Oh, and also…enjoy the ride 

Congrats


----------



## Nimrod7 (Jun 27, 2022)

they liked your music, so:


----------



## davidson (Jun 27, 2022)

Just get a couple of tracks done and let them rip into them asap. The sooner you start getting solid feedback, the sooner you'll start nailing sync music. Congrats btw!


----------



## jcrosby (Jun 27, 2022)

William The Concurer said:


> _Very_ recently (and I mean, meteoric in its development) I was emailed by a LA trailer company, who shall remain nameless. Initially I thought it was a scam; having checked out what they've done it seemed too good to be true. I like some trailer music, but much of it has become a giant, epic, pain in the head.
> 
> After checking their authenticity, and within just a few days, I had a Zoom meeting with them, and they are, indeed real. They've been doing Disney, Marvel, etc., etc, and my music came up in a playlist from a client of theirs.
> 
> ...


Go for it. I had more or less the same experience. When opportunity knocks (especially when you can verify it's real) you say yes, and hang on.

Assuming this is one of the bigger libraries in LA they don't just reach out to anyone... They also reject the overwhelming majority of submissions they get. They wouldn't have contacted you if they didn't think you had the chops....

The few things I'd suggest are:

Listen to a few tracks from them if you don't already have any references.
Pay attention to the arrangement, especially how their cues are broken up into acts.
Don't get hung up on transition fx (if they expressed interest in hybrid tracks). Better to deliver a strong musical cue as your 1st draft, and let them give you notes on how to improve the transitions between acts in feedback.
FYI the feedback process can be a bit jarring the 1st few times depending on how much revising they feel is necessary... Don't let it ruffle your feathers. You get used to it, and eventually you hit a point where most of your submissions can be done in one or two rounds of short, fairly concise notes...


----------



## RonOrchComp (Jun 27, 2022)

robgb said:


> Get an agent.


An agent will help him find work. Which he has already found. Great idea!


----------



## RonOrchComp (Jun 27, 2022)

_Big trailer company wants me and I'm not a trailer composer_

That's like NASA calling me to come work for them, and I am not a rocket scientist. Good luck!


----------



## William The Concurer (Jun 27, 2022)

RonOrchComp said:


> _Big trailer company wants me and I'm not a trailer composer_
> 
> That's like NASA calling me to come work for them, and I am not a rocket scientist. Good luck!


Um, Buzz Aldrin. Have you heard his thoughts on this?


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 27, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> they liked your music, so:



Mike Oldfield knows!


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 27, 2022)

William The Concurer said:


> _Very_ recently (and I mean, meteoric in its development) I was emailed by a LA trailer company, who shall remain nameless. Initially I thought it was a scam; having checked out what they've done it seemed too good to be true. I like some trailer music, but much of it has become a giant, epic, pain in the head.
> 
> After checking their authenticity, and within just a few days, I had a Zoom meeting with them, and they are, indeed real. They've been doing Disney, Marvel, etc., etc, and my music came up in a playlist from a client of theirs.
> 
> ...


That's awesome! I get that you're nervous (?), I think that's healthy. But trust the process. Start doing, and you'll get pointers and feedback and direction and you'll develop your own workflow for this particular format.

Good luck!


----------



## Cdnalsi (Jun 27, 2022)

Strings ostinato, BRAAM, ostinato, BRAAM, rise into a sub bass downward glissando, then subito into a felt piano (not more than a couple of notes), strings ostinato again, BRAAM, BRAAM, done.


----------



## creativeforge (Jun 27, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> Strings ostinato, BRAAM, ostinato, BRAAM, rise into a sub bass downward glissando, then subito into a felt piano (not more than a couple of notes), strings ostinato again, BRAAM, BRAAM, done.


Don't forget a short suspended silence before driving in a BRAAM with epic drums.


----------



## Macrawn (Jun 27, 2022)

Maybe part of the appeal is that you are not a trailer music composer. That might be an advantage in the sense that a lot of trailer music is kinda samey using similar techniques and I suspect your music is a fresh take.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jun 28, 2022)

Be musical, tell a story (a journey of feelings and anticipation), get out of the way of voice overs, be yourself (they are interested in your music), and take feedback as if you liked it.

Trailer music can be very functional, and it is basically an advert. But what it is selling is an experience, so the best trailers are experiences worth having in themselves. So, evoke thoughts and most especially feelings that people can get excited about recapturing in the film itself.


----------



## ThomasNL (Jun 28, 2022)

If they approached you, they like your music, and are accepting the risks. They see your potential and want to work with you. You can choose to wing it and bluf your way through it, or play it open and be honest about your experience. That is up to you.

But definitely go for it! It is the best way to learn a new skill, to be forced to do it


----------



## DANIELE (Jun 28, 2022)

Also...


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jun 28, 2022)

Hello William,
First of all, congrats 

I've been doing trailer music for a few years and if you are coming - which I think you are - from a strong orchestral film music background, there is ONE advice I'd like to give you, that I wish someone gave me when I started !
Just... Don't make orchestral music with trailer SFX in it and call it a trailer track. That won't get any placement. Trailer music, and even orchestral trailer music is VERY different from film music. So you should start by listening to a lot of tracks that made their way on trailers or on very good albums and get an intimate knowledge of how they work.
Have fun, and good luck!


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jun 28, 2022)

Hey, looks like I have in fact TWO advices ahah. 
Another very important one. I've been struggling for a long time with a problem in most of my tracks, where the backend didn't reach the level of intensity that was needed. I finally understood it was because I was very cautious with the realism of the orchestra. Like "My french horns are already doing something, so I can't use them for anything else, I have to found another way". 
Just forget about these kind of things on your backends. Get 3 orchestras playing at the same time if needed


----------



## Loerpert (Jun 28, 2022)

Cdnalsi said:


> Strings ostinato, BRAAM, ostinato, BRAAM, rise into a sub bass downward glissando, then subito into a felt piano (not more than a couple of notes), strings ostinato again, BRAAM, BRAAM, done.


I can't help but replacing the sound of BRAAM's with silence in my head. Since Braam means 'Blackberry' in my language. Which makes the sequence you describe really funny, since it switches between tense music and total silence (because blackberries make no sound) all the time. So I picture a trailer with action packed sequences and the occasional image of a blackberry just hanging there. 🤣


----------



## Roger Newton (Jun 28, 2022)

Go for it!!!!

In the end, WTF can happen to a trailer? Take the money! It's the end of wearing cardboard belts and paper ties! On On On!


----------



## robgb (Jun 28, 2022)

RonOrchComp said:


> An agent will help him find work. Which he has already found. Great idea!


I've had multiple agents over the years. In my experience, their job is to negotiate the deal, not get you the job. They can tell you about job opportunities, yes, but their main function is to make the actual deal once you've agreed to do the work. And if you have a legitimate and potentially lucrative offer, it's much easier to get an agent. So, yes, it is a great idea.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jun 28, 2022)

robgb said:


> I've had multiple agents over the years. In my experience, their job is to negotiate the deal, not get you the job. They can tell you about job opportunities, yes, but their main function is to make the actual deal once you've agreed to do the work. And if you have a legitimate and potentially lucrative offer, it's much easier to get an agent. So, yes, it is a great idea.


I'm not sure how it translates to the trailer music industry. You work for publishers, and even if in some cases you get some upfront money, it's mostly about pitching music and crossing fingers for it to get used. The publisher is the one dealing with clients.


----------



## onnomusic (Jun 28, 2022)

Such a dope story. I sort of rolled into trailer music without any experience in the field, and sometimes I feel that "beginners brain" can actually work in your advantage ((first thing we ever did landed a call of duty trailer, so there you go).) Don't try to do something that sounds like the typical trailer, I think the main thing is to do "you", whatever kind of music that is, but do try to adhere to the structure of trailers (intro, build, climax etc). 

Good luck!


----------



## vancomposer (Jun 28, 2022)

Cool story, GO for it! Good luck! 😎


----------



## NuNativs (Jun 28, 2022)

Awesome, you can do it!
“Perfect is the enemy of done.”…
“Nothing will stop you from being creative so effectively as the fear of making a mistake." John Cleese”
“Life begins at the end of your comfort zone”.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jun 28, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> Awesome, you can do it!
> “Perfect is the enemy of done.”…
> “Nothing will stop you from being creative so effectively as the fear of making a mistake." John Cleese”
> “Life begins at the end of your comfort zone”.


I would add from my own experience: 'Don't worry so much that you think it's a bit rubbish, you think most successful things are a bit rubbish too!'

For me this applies in spades to academic work and fiction; I'm not as good at applying it to music!


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Jun 29, 2022)

Imposter syndrome kicks all of our asses at some point in time


----------



## thenorthernsounds (Jun 29, 2022)

I received the same email with the same pitch. Nothing wrong with it, I guess. I truly just wonder where they got the info from. Anyway, trailer music is its own genre with its own challenges. Plus an opportunity like this puts the risk on your end if there's no upfront fee. You're doing the upfront work. Right? I think that if you're into it, go for it. It's a fun and challenging genre and there's nothing like landing a big placement. It's a thrill!

Good luck!! 

Oh, and by the way, we produce samples that you might need in order to get going with these tracks. Here's a free sample pack from us:








HORIZON - CINEMATIC SOUNDS - FREE VERSION


This is the free version of our Cinematic Sound Effects Pack - Horizon. In this version, you'll find over 300mb of high quality cinematic samples including Braams, Signals, Downers, Hits, Pads and Swooshes. We've also included a full music piece and its stems - our construction kits - built...




thenorthernsounds.gumroad.com





And if you enjoy it, you can buy the full version here - I created a 40% off version for you and other VI-Control members:
shorturl.at/ijmBY


----------



## davidson (Jul 1, 2022)

I can see why they'd think you had trailer potential from those pieces. It'll be interesting to see how well you get on with trailer structure and form. Be sure to report back in a few months!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Jul 1, 2022)

Yea, as has been mentioned one of the best ways of studying anything in music is.... listening  

I feel like with trailer music there is a lot of crap. A lot of it sounds the same and seems to be written by AI from how it sounds like. So it's natural that some writers are biased against it, which is probably the killer for writing it. Anyways, here are some pieces I'd be inspired by.
Not sure how worthwhile it is to focus too much on what gets used because... it looks like a mess to me and I wouldn't know what to write haha... 

Here some favorites from one of the top labels Audiomachine 

Heroes Walking https://search.audiomachine.com/tracks?tracks=am51-13

Burning Skies https://search.audiomachine.com/tracks?tracks=am66-15

Leap Of Faith https://search.audiomachine.com/tracks?tracks=am47-12

Close Strangers https://search.audiomachine.com/tracks?tracks=am51-13

Start Of Something Wonderful https://search.audiomachine.com/tracks?tracks=am78-3

2WEI are doing great work too


----------



## jcrosby (Jul 1, 2022)

One thing important to realize is that many film genres often (but not always by any stretch) have instrumental choices or compositional styles that may or may not work in that film genre. You'll most likely be writing to a brief most of the time; briefs are typically targeted toward specific film/game/tv genres, or target several genres where there's overlap.

For example... Superhero and Scifi often have a lot of of overlap.... The generic/stereotypical 'epic trailer' arrangement that everyone assumes '_is'_ trailer music tends to dominate the superhero and scifi genres. Glockenspiel combined with fast solo strings might pigeonhole a track as high fantasy, solo ethereal female voice or tribal percussion might pigeonhole a track as epic fantasy, etc. Because of this it's important to realize that there are certain stylistic choices you might make that could unintentionally pigeonhole a track..

These distinctions aren't going to matter in terms of what you submit as a demo.... But it is useful to know that they're there, and depending on how rigid the library is, coloring too far outside of the lines might create a friction point in the form of feedback that feels a little abrasive.... (Been there, done that...)

This is why you keep seeing replies saying that while it's good to do your own thing, there is a format you really want to work within. The arrangement's structure and arc determines if it fits the format; but related to that are different archetypes/tropes/etc that might or might not work depending on who you'll be writing for and how they operate...

There are two resources I'd recommend paying attention to early on.... (Well one's a resource, the other is more of a bit of practical research to get a feel for how broad the genre actually is... How projects may be focused, etc).

*Trailer Music Weekly* - This is a site with tons of different trailer tracks (Most recent 1st AFAIK). It tends to lean a little toward typical epic/superhero/scifi tracks, but with some digging you'll find many different niches...



https://www.youtube.com/c/TrailermusicweeklyCOM/videos



*Check Audiomachine's album catalog*. They're albums tend to be very focused, if you listen to a few tracks off of a bunch of different albums from the past 4-5 years you'll see that each one tends to have its own sonic identity... Depending on who you'll be writing for and how they operate this is a really useful detail to understand as early as possible...



https://search.audiomachine.com/albums?tags=Catalog%E2%86%92Trailer%20Music


----------



## thenorthernsounds (Jul 2, 2022)

These are great! Are they recorded live?


----------



## StefanoM (Jul 2, 2022)

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> Get 3 orchestras playing at the same time if needed


Yes, that's correct.

And,

This is valid not only for Trailer Music, but in general.

It is one of the way to get a GREAT sound with the Sample Libraries, for trailer music, for film music/TV shows, Video Games... any context where the final sound will be at 90% Sample Libraries.

And where the reproducibility of that sound with a real orchestra will not be important.

So if the brass part for example is made up of 3 sections of 10 elements mixing, sustains, staccato, legato also with different libraries.., it's not a problem. Does it work? Great. Can be reproduced by Real Musician? Maybe Not.. but in that case it will be not a problem.

Think with the sound in mind...it is the correct way to use the sample libraries, and one of the way to have a "Pro" sound.


----------



## William The Concurer (Jul 3, 2022)

thenorthernsounds said:


> These are great! Are they recorded live?


Thank you. No, on this occasion these are all computer, though I did play everything in manually; except some string runs and harp glissandi.Obviously.

I do my best, but I'm never satisfied.

-W


----------



## William The Concurer (Jul 3, 2022)

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> Hey, looks like I have in fact TWO advices ahah.
> Another very important one. I've been struggling for a long time with a problem in most of my tracks, where the backend didn't reach the level of intensity that was needed. I finally understood it was because I was very cautious with the realism of the orchestra. Like "My french horns are already doing something, so I can't use them for anything else, I have to found another way".
> Just forget about these kind of things on your backends. Get 3 orchestras playing at the same time if needed


Thank you. I’ve been using that approach for a long time, when not working with real instruments. Since about 2004, when I got the original VSL (Gigastudio/PC) and East West Quantum Leap Platinum Orch. They were exciting times.

Obviously,sample libraries and the real thing are different, so using "impossible" orchestral sections is quite common for me when mocking up, when knowing it’s not going to be for the real thing. For me it’s about the orchestral “vibe” and not the pursuit of ultimate realism. Though it’s amazing what can be achieved these days, the quality of the writing is most important.

Ultimately, the average end-listener isn’t so discriminating, if the mock-up is decent.

-W


----------



## Robin Thompson (Jul 3, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> 'Don't worry so much that you think it's a bit rubbish, you think most successful things are a bit rubbish too!'


Is this your own quote? I absolutely love it.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 3, 2022)

Robin Thompson said:


> Is this your own quote? I absolutely love it.


It is, yes!


----------



## DANIELE (Jul 3, 2022)

William The Concurer said:


> Should anyone be interested in hearing a "small" selection of tracks (in the context of my post) the links are below. Sorry it’s so clumsy. I wanted to create a simple playlist and remain anon at this point, but I could only come up with Drop Box, which I find to be an awkward option.I hope it actually works!
> 
> I know this is not the demos section, but I just wanted to give some kind of background to this company's interest. I can see that a couple of tracks could have got them thinking I might be OK for the job.All pieces are published, by the way. Production music, LA and London.
> 
> ...


I still have to listen to the others but I absolutely love the first one. It remembers me a lot of things of the past.

Less than a month ago I lost my father and I haven't made music for a few months, this inspired me to make music again even if I feel very very tired.

What library did you use for the choirs and soloist?


----------



## thenorthernsounds (Jul 4, 2022)

William The Concurer said:


> Thank you. No, on this occasion these are all computer, though I did play everything in manually; except some string runs and harp glissandi.Obviously.
> 
> I do my best, but I'm never satisfied.
> 
> -W


Amazing! Well done!


----------



## GtrString (Jul 4, 2022)

Well done. Don't think of it as they want tracks, but rather that they can see your potential and want to work with you. 

The next phase is not so much about you showing off your genius, but rather about testing how you are to work with in the ping and pong of things..


----------



## Roger Newton (Jul 4, 2022)

Robin Thompson said:


> Is this your own quote? I absolutely love it.


You may also like this one.

A lot of the stuff I produce sounds like rubbish. That's because it actually is.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 4, 2022)

Roger Newton said:


> You may also like this one.
> 
> I lot of the stuff I produce sounds like rubbish. That's because it actually is.


I believe that should be attributed to Messrs. Stock, Aitken and Waterman. Not because they actually said it; but because they should have confessed by now.

Come on out SAW fans, I'm right here!


----------



## tabulius (Jul 4, 2022)

I started composing trailer music during year 2010-2011, and I was also very noob in regards of trailer music format and structure. I’m sure the trailer music company will help you on the way and give you tips and ideas. Doing this over and over again and while getting valuable feedback did teach me a great deal personally.

So don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll get help and learn some tricks!


----------



## MeloKeyz (Jul 5, 2022)

Oh well, I am still waiting for a real trailer company to tell me "Don't worry, just do something and you'll eventually work your way into it" as I get more rejections than pats on my back. You're lucky mate and go for it. They clearly give you a chance even if they know you gonna improve slow in this genre.


----------



## William The Concurer (Jul 5, 2022)

thenorthernsounds said:


> Amazing! Well done!


🙏


----------



## William The Concurer (Jul 5, 2022)

DANIELE said:


> I still have to listen to the others but I absolutely love the first one. It remembers me a lot of things of the past.
> 
> Less than a month ago I lost my father and I haven't made music for a few months, this inspired me to make music again even if I feel very very tired.
> 
> What library did you use for the choirs and soloist?


I'm very sorry to learn of your loss. I have been through all of that and have no "family". Thank you kindly for your comment, in this case.

I cannot remember,at all, the libraries used. Sorry. It was created some time ago. I'm quite confident that East West was in there somewhere, along with others. I never confine my ensemble sounds to one library. I also like to "point up" ensembles with solo instruments.

I wish you the best....


----------



## aeliron (Jul 5, 2022)

Roger Newton said:


> You may also like this one.
> 
> A lot of the stuff I produce sounds like rubbish. That's because it actually is.


Not sure if you noticed, but ... rubbish also sells!


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 5, 2022)

aeliron said:


> Not sure if you noticed, but ... rubbish also sells!


That's the quote to cross stitch into a display and frame!

Along with 'Mud don't pay the mortgage' for producers.


----------



## DANIELE (Jul 5, 2022)

William The Concurer said:


> I'm very sorry to learn of your loss. I have been through all of that and have no "family". Thank you kindly for your comment, in this case.
> 
> I cannot remember,at all, the libraries used. Sorry. It was created some time ago. I'm quite confident that East West was in there somewhere, along with others. I never confine my ensemble sounds to one library. I also like to "point up" ensembles with solo instruments.
> 
> I wish you the best....


Thank you. I have a lot of choirs libraries too because choirs is one of the hardest things to do well, you did very well here with any library you used, it is really on point.


----------

