# Review of the Neumann KH80s with KH750 Sub, and How Not to Botch the Calibration Like I Did



## PaulieDC (Aug 23, 2021)

This whole post will be long I'm sure, but it was info that was hard to find when I was researching all this. After iterations of desktop near-field monitors and an equal number of disappointments, I gritted teeth and purchased the Neumann KH 80s with the KH 750 sub... all-DSP system, with the Neumann measurement mic. Basically Sweetwater had the KH80s as a like-new demo and it all was eligible for 36-month financing. I had a PreSonus system with a sub in the past and hated it because you had to crawl under the desk to adjust the bottom end and it was never right, always sounded like thin speakers up top with a "disconnected" low end. Sold those, then got the iLoud MTMs (the bigger ones, $700/pair), and they sounded pretty good actually, especially after using Sonarworks to calibrate them (another $299). Problem is... horror stories about reliability, but I bought mine new straight from IK Multimedia so that should be better, right? HA. The right speaker lasted THREE days and then it died. IK replaced it of course at their expense but it took a month. Anyway, some EDM kid in Phoenix bought them via OfferUp, that one is over with.

*OK, What About the KH System*
In a nutshell, after two full calibrations (the 2nd one done RIGHT, wait until I tell you) the KH system absolutely sounds like the price you pay. I can't get over that I own a system that sounds this good. Even at lower volumes the reproduced dynamic range is SO even and punchy and present. Listening to a commercial recording it's like being in the control room when it was being mixed. What's most impressive is that you can't determine where the sub is leaving off and the top cabinets are taking over. Wow. Everything sounds so CLEAR for lack of a better term. I'm taking an advanced mixing course at Berklee Online using tracks provided from Telefunken Studios, and what I mix on this Neumann system sounds amazing in the Neumann's of course (not my mix, just the speaker reproduction, lol!), BUT, it also sounds right in my _car_, coming out of my iPad and through a $7 pair of Panasonic Walkman headphones. Incredible. Plus it's just a joy to hear instruments so clearly yet with a "being there" presence. OK, enough gush, If you spend 3 grand on these, or any higher end system like the smart Genelecs, and properly treat your space and calibrate properly, I believe you'll have a playback system that will never disappoint. It's like any instrument... once you hurt yourself and spend in the range where more pro stuff is available, makes a big difference.

HOWEVER, this next part is important: _It was an absolute nightmare at first_... when they first arrived and I ran it all up with the quick-setup iPad app, it was horrible. KH 80s sounded like thin AM pocket radios and the sub just thumped and felt totally disconnected. I played a Steve Oliver jazz track and the snare sounded like an 80's inexpensive drum machine... I was devastated, did I waste my money?? So I connected all three cabs to my network as per Neumann instructions, got out the Neumann mic and ran the desktop MA-1 software to do the FULL calibration where you move the mic around and the system takes audio samples (this was the first failed attempt at calibration). But, hardly any improvement! Again the KH80s sounded so thin it was a joke. Something wasn't right. 

It took me a couple days to realize that the problem *was me*. And after I corrected six levels of stupid on my part, the system is now dialed in properly and it is everything Neumann promised and then some. Here's the list, so if you invest in this system, don't make the mistakes I did. First I'll mention is that my music desk/space in our office is pretty nicely treated, because part of the Berklee Mixing courses were to show us how to measure rooms for nodes and ant-nodes and all that, then treat our space accordingly. They actually expect you to spend the money and do this in your home or apartment, as part of the online class! So I went for it, and the improvement was amazing. So I'm assuming you have some level of treatment on the walls.

Here's what I did wrong, 6 errors:

*Used cheap XLR cables* - I only need 4 cables, two from the BabyFace to the sub and then two on to the KH80s. I used whatever no-name brand XLRs I had in my audio bag that were probably less than 10 bucks each. To me, cables were cables. So I decided to order 4 Mogami Gold Studio cables, three 6 footers and a 10 footer... $208 with sales tax. How insane is that... but I figured I can always return them, it's Amazon. Plugged them in, ran up the badly calibrated system, and the improvement in sound quality shocked me. A LOT. It ain't snake oil. If anyone now tries to take away my $200 cables I'll turn the dogs loose on them. Well... I'd have to get dogs first, but those overpriced cables are here to stay. All Mogami-cabled studio, 1 error fixed.

*Sub Placement* - I have to put my sub under the desk, no option, and while my desk sits in a corner, I don't face the corner, I face the wall straight on, corner to the left. BUT, I put the sub in the corner facing INTO the corner. I figured bass sounds travel all around, that should be fine. Yes, I'm a dork. And to the Neumann Measurement mic, it ain't fine. So I simply turned the sub around facing my feet now essentially which is Fixed Error #2, but there's an additional problem I had to fix with the sub in order to calibrate accurately. See #3.

*88-Key Controllers are not invisible* - When I measured the system with the Neumann mic the first time, I didn't move my SL88 Grand. As I'm sure you're aware, during calibration the mic gets moved around the listening position, but line of sight to the sub was totally blocked by the keyboard. I know, I know... call Bill Engvall and have him stick a stupid sign in my DropBox. So I moved the keyboard out of the way when I went to recalibrate. Essentially, Error #3 fixed once I remeasured correctly.

*KH80 Height* - I have IKEA-hack speaker stands and these smaller KH80s sat about 4 inches below my ear level. I figured if I'm going to do this new calibration right (more on THAT next) then I need to get these speakers raised up. And I'd like some level of foam absorption or something. I almost ALMOST bought these $200 "isolation stands" being desperate to solve all this. But first I watched a YouTube review video on them to see if this was the right thing to so, and someone in the comments said "I just use Yoga blocks, they work great". Having no idea what those were, I fired up Amazon and sure enough, 4" foam blocks for Yoga were 12 bucks a PAIR. They work SO well you'd think they were designed for speakers! The foam is strong, there is no sagging. What a solution. Error #4 fixed.

*Factory Reset* - The KH750 was new but the KH80s were floor demos at Sweetwater. Totally mint, they look brand new and have a full warranty. But they have been USED on the floor... took me a while, lol! Then all of a sudden it popped in my head to do a factory reset on the speakers before calibrating. I suggest you do this to any speaker, even new, before you calibrate. I can't prove that's error #5 fixed but it didn't hurt the situation, and I'll use artistic license and say it was.

*No Tape Measure* - _This was the biggest error_. During the first calibration the software takes a measurement then commands you to move the mic of course, usually something like "Move calibration mic 26 cm to the left". So first time around I eye-balled it and approximated what 26cm was. Breaking News: Don't do that. There's less than a dozen measurements, it's not nearly as hard as Sonarworks, and if you invest in this Neumann system with the MA-1 mic to calibrate, use a tape measure and blue painter's tape on the floor to mark where to put the stand so you can set the mic to the EXACT locations for the measurements. If you aren't willing to do that PRECISELY, save your money. I found out later from interviews with the company just how important that is. Once I committed to using a tape for EXACT mic movements, then Error #6 fixed.

NOW I commenced the second calibration with all of the above sorted out, to the letter. When I fired up that system and played a favorite Mozart Symphony from a CD that I've had for 30 years (and therefore know it), goose bumps and almost tears started because of what I was hearing. This is also the first set of monitors I've ever played a piano VST through (Garritan CFX) that actually sounded like a great recording of a grand piano and not a boxy plinky wannabe. My goodness, with all three units running DSP and the software micro-tuning it all, it's pretty mind-blowing. I guess to summarize, the answer is Absolutely Yes if someone asks, does this system really sound like 2700 bucks. Even when it's being paid off at $100/month!

*KH120s*
If you have been eyeing the KH120s you'll get the same results from calibration because the KH750 sub is the mastermind with the calibration software and all that. Actually any near-fields will work although Neumann really has the KH80/750 thing *down*. If you're wondering if the KH80s won't have enough bass response, that may be true on their own but paired with the seamless sub it's not an issue. Also, our office is 18x15 and I have one corner to myself, this system is WAY more powerful than what's needed in here. If you have a bigger space then the KH120s with KH750 may be the way to go, OR, if you don't want a sub (especially at that price), then go KH120. 

If you actually read this far, thanks for hanging out, hope SOMETHING from this was helpful.


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## PaulieDC (Aug 24, 2021)

Here are the Yoga blocks https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FN7X7KE/ (on Amazon), if you need height and absorption. 6" wide, 4" high, the exact size of the KH80s, crazy. The are longer in the back then needed but no one sees that. 

UPDATE 5/1/22: Amazon doesn't sell their own brand any longer, but these are essentially the same:


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## synergy543 (Aug 24, 2021)

Thanks for the details and heads-up Paulie. I'm glad you have your system set up to give you such satisfying results. 
Enjoy!

Two questions - 
What is the distance from the monitors to your ear?
Do you ever run the monitors into red (or overload) at loud levels?
(is the clipping subtle or noticeable?)


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## Virtuoso (Aug 25, 2021)

Very useful tips! I've been using a pair of KH310s for a few years now (very happy with them) and bought the KH750 earlier this year, but I haven't actually got round to unboxing it yet! I need to tidy my studio up first to clear a space, which is an overwhelmingly daunting project...


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## PaulieDC (May 1, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Thanks for the details and heads-up Paulie. I'm glad you have your system set up to give you such satisfying results.
> Enjoy!
> 
> Two questions -
> ...


UGH, I never saw this reply to respond! My apologies... I'm sure it's a moot point now, 8 months later, but to answer your questions, KH80 monitor to ear is 38". Definitely no clipping and no red zone, BUT, this isn't a big room and the 85db they have you set as a standard is more than loud enough. The loudest I could get them was about 94db but that's way more than I need. Maybe I could have sent more out of Cubase as the source signal, into the Babyface, but that's what I came up with. Neumann tells you not to change the volume on your interface once it's calibrated btw... that's not an issure because I don't touch it, I control all volume outputs with RME's confusing but brilliant TotalMixFX (I bought a Groove3 course to learn it, that's crazy!) and I use that with the hardware remote for it to control volumes of outputs and that works well.


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## PaulieDC (May 1, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> Very useful tips! I've been using a pair of KH310s for a few years now (very happy with them) and bought the KH750 earlier this year, but I haven't actually got round to unboxing it yet! I need to tidy my studio up first to clear a space, which is an overwhelmingly daunting project...


BOY is it... my whole attempt took more than a year of trial-and-error! Did you ever get the KH750 going, and if so, are you happy with it?


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## Elrik Settee (May 2, 2022)

i had a similar experience with Sonarworks. Then i decided to use a tape measure and i bought a boom mike stand just to use to position the mike accurately. Way better.

The boffins who make this tech shit must assume that we all get slideruley everyday. 

Maybe it should say in the manual: please note, you need to get all scienced up for this shit to work, bludd.


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