# Best sample library for jazz band mockups



## nradisch (Aug 17, 2011)

What options are there for doing jazz band mockups? All I found in my searching so far is JABB (Garrittan).

--Neil


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## Yossarian (Aug 17, 2011)

The usual suspects that pop up in threads like this are Broadway Big Band and Broadway Lites from www.fablesounds.com , Mojo from http://www.vir2.com (www.vir2.com) , Chris Hein Horns from www.chrishein.net and the brass libraries from www.warpivmusic.com . Broadway Big Band is probably the most comprehensive (and expensive).

/Yoss


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## bryla (Aug 17, 2011)

Broadway Big Band comes in a light version for 500USD. Also there is SampleModeling


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## Winslow (Aug 17, 2011)

Definitely www.samplemodeling.com
If you want that close jazz brass sound! They offer trumpets, saxes and trombones. They said that they will release tuba and horn some time soon. But it takes some time to learn the instruments...

Winslow


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## stonzthro (Aug 17, 2011)

+1 for sample modeling. I had my doubts but those vanished once I learned the controllers.


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## nradisch (Aug 18, 2011)

Yeah, the sample modeling sounds awesome. What really drives me crazy are things like the Stefano Lucato demo on the sample modeling page (he's playing solo sax on a keyboard against some loungy jazz thing). The sax performance no doubt takes a lot of practice, but it seems straight forward in theory. What I really want to know is how he puts together that rhythm section (assuming it's not a live recording). I'd give pretty much anything to see how that is put together.

--Neil


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## mlittle577 (Aug 19, 2011)

Will sample modeling work for large ensemble arrangements to? (5 Saxes, 4 Bones, 4 Trumpets) or would you need another library to compliment for supporting parts? (2nds and 3rds)


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## nradisch (Aug 20, 2011)

Well the big band demos on the sample modeling page would indicate that you can do large ensembles.


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## bsound76 (Aug 20, 2011)

The trumpet and the trombone come with multiple different instruments. The trumpet has 7, the trombone 4- check their product pages for the details.


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## Bird123 (Aug 20, 2011)

Thanks for your help guys. I will check it out right now. :D


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## ThomasL (Aug 21, 2011)

And don't miss this one:
http://www.orangetreesamples.com/coreba ... right-bass

It's a killer bass!


/Thomas


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## NYC Composer (Aug 22, 2011)

My best results have come from a mix of Samplemodeling and Chris Hein 2. There are various really helpful articulations in Chris Hein that don't exist in the Sample Modeling stuff, however, the SampleModeling stuff sounds fabulous in solo passages and adds heft and movement to the CH stuff. BroadwayBbig Band is definitely the most comprehensive package, but at a hefty price. The lite version looks like a nice package with some limitations.

Here's a track from a 'classics' project I'm working on-an original tune of mine sung by a fellow who's presently doing an Off-Broadway Sinatra tribute. I used a combination of Sample Modeling and Chris Hein 2. It's definitely a work in progress, but it's getting there: 

http://www.ljnmusicandsound.com/2011/ill-always-come-back-to-you-new/ (http://www.ljnmusicandsound.com/2011/il ... o-you-new/)


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## noiseboyuk (Aug 22, 2011)

Larry that sounds GREAT! I've also just heard Chris Hein's demo on the "gap in market" thread, I'm clearly underusing vol 2. The lower line @1.10 sounds a little familiar and not too authentic sound from my own efforts, but the vast majority is waaaay better than anything I've got out of it. How are you layering with Sample Modelling? How much of what, would you say?


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## NYC Composer (Aug 22, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Mon Aug 22 said:


> Larry that sounds GREAT! I've also just heard Chris Hein's demo on the "gap in market" thread, I'm clearly underusing vol 2. The lower line @1.10 sounds a little familiar and not too authentic sound from my own efforts, but the vast majority is waaaay better than anything I've got out of it. How are you layering with Sample Modelling? How much of what, would you say?



Thanks, Guy-as you heard, I used a bit of the chromatic runs from CH and some of the unison lines to support, say three solo trpts from SM and a unison line from CH. Also, some of the falls and doits from CH were helpful. I used SM on most of the divisis and solo lines, and probably would have added a CH alto and tenor, just ran out of time and energy to load more stuff. Note to self-must...re-do....templates....

One other thing-sometimes i used a uni sax line from CH then added a solo SM line on top, using the expression pedal to give the sound some movement within the uni. I find that the more time you put into that sort of thing, the better the end product is. This one still has a ways to go.


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## MichaelL (Aug 22, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Mon Aug 22 said:


> Larry that sounds GREAT! I've also just heard Chris Hein's demo on the "gap in market" thread, I'm clearly underusing vol 2. The lower line @1.10 sounds a little familiar and not too authentic sound from my own efforts, but the vast majority is waaaay better than anything I've got out of it. How are you layering with Sample Modelling? How much of what, would you say?



I have to agree. Larry's approach is the ticket. I listened to the CH demo on the 'gap in the market" thread. The trumpet (?) solo sounds very very synthy. The (?) is because I couldn't tell if it was meant to be a trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn or a trumpet like synth.

I think using a sample modeling trumpet would make all the difference.

My 2 cents.

Michael

PS. Great stuff Larry


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## Chris Hein (Aug 22, 2011)

MichaelL @ Mon Aug 22 said:


> The (?) is because I couldn't tell if it was meant to be a trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn or a trumpet like synth.


Its a Fluegelhorn.

Very nice work Larry. 

Chris Hein


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## MichaelL (Aug 22, 2011)

Chris Hein @ Mon Aug 22 said:


> MichaelL @ Mon Aug 22 said:
> 
> 
> > The (?) is because I couldn't tell if it was meant to be a trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn or a trumpet like synth.
> ...




Didn't mean to be hyper critical Chris. I think 75% of the issue was that particular performance. The solo in question sounded like it was played on a keyboard. I didn't hear the nuances / variety of attacks and vibrato that would have been more horn like.

The section parts sound great.

Cheers,

MIchael


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## Rob (Aug 22, 2011)

Very nice, Larry! The band is a bit dry for my ears... very warm voice timbre! That's not you, right? CH samples have the right jazz sound, together with Samplemodeling, of course...


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## rayinstirling (Aug 22, 2011)

Larry,

Great work, and I immediately wished I was in NYC :( 
It's going to be next year though. 
You'll be working with Steve Tyrell next 

Ray


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## NYC Composer (Aug 22, 2011)

Ha-thanks for the nice responses! No, definitely not me singing, Rob. I sing with what was once euphemistically called 'writer's voice' (sigh). That's a fellow named Cary Hoffman, who has an off Broadway show called "My Sinatra" running at the moment. We've been friends for 25 years. I'm also working with another singer/crooner who I think is fabulous as well. There is something about writing these tunes and trying to place them in the mid to late 50's that really appeals to me, and it's a market niche I hope to exploit for licensing purposes .But back to horns:

As much as I have enjoyed SM (and I really do!), what can be done with CH alone still surprises me. I've posted this before, but this is a re-mix with a solo tpt from CH's solo collection (which Chris kindly gave me after hearing my original rendition-full disclosure).
This one's an instrumental. All horns on this are Chris Hein:

http://www.ljnmusicandsound.com/2010/th ... n-hornier/

To Michael L-though never perfect in feel, I think the tone of the solo holds up pretty well, what's your thought?

P.S-imo, Paul Baker is an arranging _genius_. If I could afford to hire him, I would, and if any of you can, you should!

Edit-oops!! :oops: Link corrected.


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## wst3 (Aug 22, 2011)

Larry - gottasay, that's some mighty fine writing, arranging, sequencing, etc. The trumpet solo is a bit exposed, and for me at least I think the only reason it sounds less than perfect is because the rest of the horns are spot on. There's another thread somewhere that talks about how our requirements for sampled instrument mock-ups have increased even more than the capabilities of the libraries.

OT a bit - have you had any success writing for smaller horn sections? I'm still trying to create horn charts that sound like Chicago, or BST or EWF or TOP or any of those bands. Part of the sound is the song, of course, but those guys had some serious tricks up their sleeves - well, and talented players. I've almost pulled the trigger on CH Horns a couple of times because it seems like the closest thing. Thoughts?


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## NYC Composer (Aug 22, 2011)

wst3 @ Mon Aug 22 said:


> Larry - gottasay, that's some mighty fine writing, arranging, sequencing, etc. The trumpet solo is a bit exposed, and for me at least I think the only reason it sounds less than perfect is because the rest of the horns are spot on. There's another thread somewhere that talks about how our requirements for sampled instrument mock-ups have increased even more than the capabilities of the libraries.
> 
> OT a bit - have you had any success writing for smaller horn sections? I'm still trying to create horn charts that sound like Chicago, or BST or EWF or TOP or any of those bands. Part of the sound is the song, of course, but those guys had some serious tricks up their sleeves - well, and talented players. I've almost pulled the trigger on CH Horns a couple of times because it seems like the closest thing. Thoughts?



Hi WST-thanks for the kind words. I agree the solo is exposed-I wanted to lean that way because I thought it was mostly passable. When you mention TOP and EWF, to me you're talking about the premiere funk/jazz sections of all time. I have had the privilege to hire Lenny Pickett from TOP who now leads the Saturday Night Live band- a true monster, and Lou Soloff of BST, great player.

In talking about EWF and TOP, I think CH is definitely helpful because of the quality of the samples and the many helpful articulations. Can you totally get there? Of course not, those players are behemoths who stomp the earth-but the articulations will definitely help to give the funkified feeling. In those situations, I would avoid the unisons and play each part of the sections , using the articulations fully and carefully.

Where SM shines is in the really basic smaller sections. I think they would be your best choice for BST and Chicago, as well as basic funk sections like the Al Green/ Memphis sound and a Fred Wesley/Maceo Parker James Brown sound. 

Hope this helps.


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## MichaelL (Aug 23, 2011)

NYC Composer @ Mon Aug 22 said:


> To Michael L-though never perfect in feel, I think the tone of the solo holds up pretty well, what's your thought?
> 
> 
> Hi Larry. Great track, which I think gives a little tip of the hat to "Bandstand." Sh*t, I'm showing my age.
> ...


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## RyBen (Aug 23, 2011)

Sample modeling is definitely the best in terms of ease of expression. Just on one midi track, you have all the expression you'll need, but using CC11 is mandatory. Not to steal traffic but I have a small demo using The Trumpet and The Trombone on my piece "The City Cries" @ soundcloud.com/ryancomposer (and the site is down ATM but it may be up later)


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## germancomponist (Aug 23, 2011)

RyBen @ Tue Aug 23 said:


> Sample modeling is definitely the best in terms of ease of expression. Just on one midi track, you have all the expression you'll need, but using CC11 is mandatory. Not to steal traffic but I have a small demo using The Trumpet and The Trombone on my piece "The City Cries" @ soundcloud.com/ryancomposer (and the site is down ATM but it may be up later)



+1

Listen to Roberto`s last demo here: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22439


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## Vartio (Aug 23, 2011)

WIVI? anyone? I've heard some pretty convincing big band done with it.
this is propably the best sounding demo i've ever heard for it...
http://soundcloud.com/mulletchuck/wivi-ewi
you get some pretty convincing results by using something like EWI or a breath controller.


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## nradisch (Aug 24, 2011)

Any idea which of the WIVI packages was used? My wallet hopes it might have been the inexpensive "Band" package.


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## Rob (Aug 24, 2011)

the problem with wivi IMO is the saxophones... brass can sound pretty good


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## NYC Composer (Aug 24, 2011)

Rob @ Wed Aug 24 said:


> the problem with wivi IMO is the saxophones... brass can sound pretty good



+1-and I thought the saxes were a little plastic in that demo, though the arrangement is great and the brass sounds good.


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## tradivoro (Aug 24, 2011)

nradisch @ Thu Aug 18 said:


> Yeah, the sample modeling sounds awesome. What really drives me crazy are things like the Stefano Lucato demo on the sample modeling page (he's playing solo sax on a keyboard against some loungy jazz thing). The sax performance no doubt takes a lot of practice, but it seems straight forward in theory. What I really want to know is how he puts together that rhythm section (assuming it's not a live recording). I'd give pretty much anything to see how that is put together.
> 
> --Neil



I don't know how exactly he put together his rhythm section for that particular example, but you can get very good quick and dirty results for jazz backups using band in a box.. If you just want a rhythm section that will play in the background, so that you can practice playing keyboard sax against changes, band in a box works very well..


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## Rob (Aug 24, 2011)

NYC Composer @ 24th August 2011 said:


> Rob @ Wed Aug 24 said:
> 
> 
> > the problem with wivi IMO is the saxophones... brass can sound pretty good
> ...



exactly, though the combination of SM with wivi can be very effective... I've done really excellent sax sections this way.


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## nradisch (Aug 26, 2011)

The wivi Band does not seem to have Alto saxophones. Dissapointing, since the most common configuration I have to arrange for is Trumpet/Alto/Tenor/Bone.

--Neil


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## NYC Composer (Aug 26, 2011)

nradisch @ Fri Aug 26 said:


> The wivi Band does not seem to have Alto saxophones. Dissapointing, since the most common configuration I have to arrange for is Trumpet/Alto/Tenor/Bone.
> 
> --Neil



If you mean one of each, SampleModeling would seem the best choice.


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