# Cubase & fader controller options



## pmountford (Jul 30, 2019)

I know this subject has been raised so many times but wondered as time goes on what solutions exist for Cubase and a hardware fader that autobanks? I know the MCU protocol has been discussed and as I understand limits the banking within Cubase. So is this the extent of the current state of play?

*Steinberg CC121 *- discontinued (atleast that's what a UK dealer told me today)
*Faderport *[classic] - not sure if this is discontinued but is still available to buy - the updated V2 I understand doesn't autobank
*Avid Artist Mix *- being replaced by Avid S1

Possible other solutions:
*Avid Dock* (questionable issue with Avid control app software over certain track count on some systems - unsure of impact of this)
*Avid S1 *not yet available

So for autobanking is this the extent of the support - essentially three pieces of discontinued (or soon to be) hardware?

It might sound like I'm moaning (maybe I am...) but it is surprising that with Cubase just celebrating 25 years and this is the state of play. Please tell me I'm wrong and I've missed some piece of kit that works!

How do other Cubase user's with large templates work around this?


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jul 30, 2019)

Faderport is great. Not sure why the new one wouldn't autobank.

Any Eucon surface can. You can pick up a used Artist Mix or go with an S3 (what I replaced my Faderport with). I wouldn't go with the dock - too many useless buttons and too expensive.


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## novaburst (Jul 31, 2019)

pmountford said:


> It might sound like I'm moaning (maybe I am...) but it is surprising that with Cubase just celebrating 25 years and this is the state of play. Please tell me I'm wrong and I've missed some piece of kit that works!



I could be wrong but I think it's up to the developers who build the control surface to write such program such as auto bank.


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## JamieLang (Jul 31, 2019)

"limits the banking"? You mean folling your mouse around automatically? Because the way that it allows you to carve the mixer up into pieces with DIRECT button acesss is unique to ONLY Cubase.

The problem with many of less expensive units using the MCU protocol is that they lack the row of buttons that directly change the mixer configurations(views)...which is what allows me to consistently set mine up to carve up the mixer however one's mind wants to do so. 

I'm not sure why anyone would want a fader controller to FOLLOW their mouse UNLESS it was a single channel unit like the CC121...that IS the more efficient way to mix ITB (IMO)...because it's like mouse in one hand, fader/ch in other, keyboard in between...but, once you have a bank of 8-24 faders...I don't know how that's useful.

So, I think your answer is that they "won" the MCU implementation(many years ago)...by a long shot...and the CC121 is their first party "follow the mouse"...what do you want them to implement? I mean what have you been using that the hardware "autobanked" and now it doesn't in Cubase?


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## pmountford (Jul 31, 2019)

JamieLang said:


> "limits the banking"


Sorry, not a great description - but I meant that Cubase follows the track within the bank of 8 faders. Anything outside of that and it doesn't follow.

And yes, I would have though the most efficient way was to have a single fader like the Faderport & CC121 but it's always interesting to hear what others use.

I did have a CC121 for a few years until it died. Now I've had an Mackie MCU for equally many years but wondered but keep looking around to see what else is out to replace the Mackie that hash transport controls / decent jog wheel and, of course, 1+ fader that autobanks.


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## JamieLang (Jul 31, 2019)

Yeah, ok...I get publicly touchy because, background--I'm an audio guy who just messes with VIs for fun  --and controller support is a real Babel point on the internets--Cubase's THIRD PARTY controller support for the MCU is unique in how WELL it works. IMO/E. As opposed to ProTools or even Logic where the same MCU is a great big waste of desk space.

I am paying close attention in the market, because one of my MCU extenders needs repair...and 8 faders is les useful to me than 1. I'd considered buying a CC121 and as many replacement faders as I could find--is that what went out on yours?


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## pmountford (Jul 31, 2019)

@JamieLang The CC121 just stopped working and wouldn't power on. The jog wheel was tiny and buttons didn't feel great for an expensive device. So I was reluctant to replace with the same. INext tried the Euphonix Transport control but the Eucon driver back then was not very reliable and kept playing up (device often wouldn't be discovered) so I moved onto the MCU - which has been solid and feels great. But now the Cubase template has got much larger, I miss the autobanking...


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## JamieLang (Jul 31, 2019)

I always wondered about using the AI Knob as a jog...that's what they get for doing double duty, I guess. You definitely need a real jog if you use one often.


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## colony nofi (Aug 1, 2019)

As far as I know the CC121 isn't discontinued... could anyone point to some info on that? 
I almost got another one (had one for YEARS and they're great) but am currently using an Artist Mix right now. I might just still grab a 121 for travel again. They're built like tanks. (I disagree they don't feel good. Different - but I trouped around the planet with one for a good 6 years and it lasted tonnes better than most other gear!)

So the NEW faderport has a different implementation to the original - and it WON'T become the focus fader outside the current 8 channel boundary - and my interactions with the techs indicated that they had no intention of bringing back that behaviour. Beats me why not - given once you have 100+ tracks, it takes a massive amount of time to control the fader you want. I sent mine back....

The artist mix works amazingly well - eucon is just fantastic. With a little BOME magic, there's an absolute tonne of things you can do (including using faders in a non-motorized way for midi CC). Some faders can be tied to groups, and others can follow as an attention fader or be part of a set that banks around. Best of all worlds.

I must admit that yamaha currently only have the (still awesome) nuage. These are incredible, but a few little points make me nervous about recommending them to anyone (including a mix engineer at my studios who is about to start on another tv series mix... the nuage was definitely an option.) And they're a big investment. And certainly massively overboard for a single fader solution.

I'd be mightily surprised NOT to see some sort of yamaha control surface in the near future aimed at composers / hobbiests / smaller post facilities. Given the cubase market share, even tying it to cubendo would still allow it to have a fairly large market. But really, I have no idea what yamaha want out of Steinberg / Barco / other audio companies under their banner.


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## pmountford (Aug 1, 2019)

colony nofi said:


> As far as I know the CC121 isn't discontinued...


I was repeating what I was told earlier this week by PMT Online sales agent and yet it is still on the Steinberg site as a current product. 

The Artist Mix sounds great. Here's hoping the same functionality will be available in the S1.


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## colony nofi (Aug 1, 2019)

> The Artist Mix sounds great. Here's hoping the same functionality will be available in the S1.


It really is a great piece of kit once you get your head around it. 
(I find it VERY different using it as a 8 fader module compared to 4 audio faders and 4 cc faders. In 8 fader mode, I tend to keep a single fader as an attention fader, and the rest as bankable. In 4+4 mode, I use the 4 midi CC's on the left, then the next 3 faders locked to 3 groups, and the final again my attention fader.)

Anyway.

Since the S1 is Eucon, you can bet you'll be able to do just as much with it as the mix. Eucon is an awesome protocol. I wish Euphonix were able to live outside of avid, but c'est la vie.

Re CC121 - I'll do some sniffing. If its *not* discontinued, I'm imagining that the sales agent just assumes it must be since its been around for so long


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## dgburns (Aug 1, 2019)

I’ve been using the Cubase ipad app, so far it works fine.


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## greggybud (Aug 1, 2019)

pmountford said:


> I know this subject has been raised so many times but wondered as time goes on what solutions exist for Cubase and a hardware fader that autobanks? I know the MCU protocol has been discussed and as I understand limits the banking within Cubase. So is this the extent of the current state of play?



There is a solution to make Cubase auto bank, meaning (assuming your Controller is showing channels 1-8) and in Cubase, for example you focus channel 15. It actually gets the focus on your controller, but it doesn't manually auto-bank. The solution also makes some other things more streamlined and easier.






Boosting Workflow when using Mackie Controller


Hi Guys, I know manny of you here are composers (I'm mostly a mixing engineer) and it's not that common to have a surface control for mixing but anyway, I would like to share this thing that I created that made me smile so hard when it worked :P Since I first bought my X-touch and the extender...




vi-control.net





But....that is way too much for me! 

If the guy could somehow package and market this procedure, I think he could make some money. But of course we are still stuck with very limited MCU characters.

I'm told by some current version Logic users that auto-bank works with Mackie Control Protocol. Anyone with a current version and a MCU controller want to verify? Or feel free to do a search in Gearsluz where this issue has been discussed...many times.

Its MCU protocol and my guess as to why DAW developers don't modify the behavior after protocol is that DAW controllers are still a relatively small market, and the development time to accompnay MCU outweighs the benefits. The majority DAW users get giddy over all kinds of new features that attract new customers. Steinbergs Houston was a lesson for them to focus on what they do best.


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## greggybud (Aug 1, 2019)

JamieLang said:


> The problem with many of less expensive units using the MCU protocol is that they lack the row of buttons that directly change the mixer configurations(views)...which is what allows me to consistently set mine up to carve up the mixer however one's mind wants to do so.



I may be misunderstanding you but with a controller like a Mackie, QconPro, and I would assume X-touch, its very easy to use the assignable function buttons (8 plus shift for 16 functions), and assign those buttons to the Cubase mixer configurations. Personally I use the mix configurations in Metagrid, and the 8 function buttons on the DAW controller for Workspaces.


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## pmountford (Aug 13, 2019)

I can't believe I've just bought a 12 year old device - an Alphatrack - connected it up to Windows 10 Cubase 10 and it's all working. And it's following tracks in Cubase like a new-born lamb...


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## JamieLang (Aug 13, 2019)

I still use their Tranzport to wirelessly control my tracking DAW as I move around the studio. They were making solutions that I think people didn’t even understand the benefits of...


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## dcomdico (Sep 4, 2020)

Thought I'd post this since I was looking for a solution and found it elsewhere after reading this thread. I'm new to Cubase and am running the demo of 10.5 with an older Mackie Control. The Cubase mixer does not autobank but it DOES scroll to any channel that you select off-screen from your current 8 banks in view, which is good enough for my purposes. However, you need to enable it in the MixConsole Functions Menu by checking "Scroll to Selected Channel."


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## JamieLang (Sep 5, 2020)

My point is, as far as I'm concerned you could remove the "bank" buttons from a fader pack. Never going to use them. Slow as mollasses.

FWIW--I use the 8 direct Mixer Configuration (previously Mixer Views) to organize the mixer. First button is the center section--all the sort of sub busses and leads....second is only FX...third is all the drum related channels...fourth is the guitars and keys...and then I use "8" as an ad hoc--whatever I want to throw onto the faders for some reason.

The elegance in that implementation (and Cubase is the only app I'm aware of that allows such) is that YOU might've just read that and thought "that's a stupid way to carve up the mixer-so traditional-I'd rather have THIS immediately available at one press..." --and you can do that. You carve it up however you need to. So, I might HAVE 50 channels in the mixer, but I never have a group of more than 16--direct one button access.


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## dcomdico (Sep 5, 2020)

Seems very powerful. Looking forward to trying that out.


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## Blakus (Oct 23, 2020)

I'm stuck with a Presonus Faderport (2018 v2) now. Didn't even occur to me that the Mackie Control protocol wouldn't autobank (to follow my channel selection) in Cubase.... To me this was the most basic feature assumption - it's absolutely useless without it. I thought, maybe I could just use the fader as a MIDI controller and map that in cubase. But Presonus hasn't implemented that on this single fader unit.

A well built piece of junk!! :(


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## CoffeeLover (Oct 23, 2020)

CC121 is definitely not discontinued.
they sell out like hot cupcakes 
i ordered one at thomann.de that is on its way as we speak.
Vintage King are expecting few units into their shop. 
send them a line and they will reserve one for you.


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## JamieLang (Oct 24, 2020)

Blakus said:


> I'm stuck with a Presonus Faderport (2018 v2) now. Didn't even occur to me that the Mackie Control protocol wouldn't autobank (to follow my channel selection) in Cubase.... To me this was the most basic feature assumption - it's absolutely useless without it. I thought, maybe I could just use the fader as a MIDI controller and map that in cubase. But Presonus hasn't implemented that on this single fader unit.
> 
> A well built piece of junk!! :(



And more surprising to ME...is they KNOW that--their original Faderport DOES follow DAW focus. I was looking at buying the v2 until I read they stopped that and started using MCU. I mean I get it--they did it thinking they only had to have one (MCU emulating) driver for the One/8/16...and while for the 8 and 16 that's defensible, for a SINGLE FADER to use that...defeats most of the purpose of a single fader unit.


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## iMovieShout (Oct 26, 2020)

Apologies if this is not the correct thread, but I'm trying to figure out how to assign an external controller fader to a Cubase fader, in such a way that when I enable or disable a track it doesn't change the fader assignment of the controller.

So, using Studio Setup - Generic Remote, I have the following setup (see attached), where VOL_Front is a physical external fader and sends a MIDI message to Mixer device, Mixer 5.1 Front. 

The issue:-
Picture 1 (Before) attached shows it correctly assigned, then I enable an instrument track, and then Cubase automatically re-assigns the fader mapping it to some other Mixer control - which in this case is 
Rear 5.1
Picture 2 (After)

Does anyone know how to prevent Cubase from automatically re-assigning the mapping?
OR is there some other way to create a permanent fader assignment to a MIDI message?


I'm using Nuendo 10.3 and Cubase Pro 10 - both of which have created the same issue !!


Many thanks in advance for any help or advice,
Jon


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## iMovieShout (Nov 4, 2020)

Anyone?? I'm guessing this is a big issue for anyone that uses any kind of external MIDI controller devices for mixing and fader control etc.
But so far no replies.

I have placed a request and feature request with #Steinberg, but n response after 7 days.

Would appreciate any thoughts


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## Noisylittlecritter (Nov 29, 2020)

pmountford said:


> I can't believe I've just bought a 12 year old device - an Alphatrack - connected it up to Windows 10 Cubase 10 and it's all working. And it's following tracks in Cubase like a new-born lamb...


I love my alphatrack. I’ve had it and been using it since 2004! But I can’t get it to Properly work with Cubase 10.5. What did you do to make it work? Do all of the functions work? I get fader, Mute, solo, but no pan, marker, track readout, and my absolute favorite, the knob to Scroll through tracks. Help!


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## composerlarkin (Nov 29, 2020)

jpb007.uk said:


> Apologies if this is not the correct thread, but I'm trying to figure out how to assign an external controller fader to a Cubase fader, in such a way that when I enable or disable a track it doesn't change the fader assignment of the controller.
> 
> So, using Studio Setup - Generic Remote, I have the following setup (see attached), where VOL_Front is a physical external fader and sends a MIDI message to Mixer device, Mixer 5.1 Front.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, if you assign a control to a specific vst mixer channel in generic remote editor, say to channel x, if you add channel a before it, it will move to controlling channel y. These assignments get pushed down the list of channels. It's very strange, but been around for ages. A work around I have used is to have the channels that you want to permanently control at the very start of your mixer (top of the transport/far left of your mixer). However, If they are output channels, or if any channels get created to the left/before them, this could prove troublesome. So the way around that is to create a new audio channel, and route the quick controls on them to specific channels in your mixer. E.g. quick control 1 to volume of 5.1 Centre out. Quick control 2 to 5.1 Centre mute, etc. Then have that channel with your quick controls on it hidden and at the very top/left of your session. Hope that makes sense.


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## pmountford (Nov 30, 2020)

Noisylittlecritter said:


> But I can’t get it to Properly work with Cubase 10.5. What did you do to make it work? Do all of the functions work? I get fader, Mute, solo, but no pan, marker, track readout, and my absolute favorite, the knob to Scroll through tracks. Help!


I've only just upgraded to Cubase 11 from 10. The fader and readout is really all I use on it but will check and let you know when back in the studio.


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## pmountford (Dec 1, 2020)

Noisylittlecritter said:


> Do all of the functions work?


They appear to be working over here on Cubase 11 (Windows) - not that that helps you...


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## iMovieShout (Dec 1, 2020)

pmountford said:


> They appear to be working over here on Cubase 11 (Windows) - not that that helps you...


Thats good news. Lets hope Nuendo 11 also sorts this issue. 
Thanks an happy holidays


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## colony nofi (Dec 8, 2020)

jpb007.uk said:


> Thats good news. Lets hope Nuendo 11 also sorts this issue.
> Thanks an happy holidays


N11 is built on exactly the same code base as C11. So if its working there, it will work on N11 when it comes out.


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## iMovieShout (Dec 8, 2020)

colony nofi said:


> N11 is built on exactly the same code base as C11. So if its working there, it will work on N11 when it comes out.


My fingers are firmly crossed for this to be finally sorted. 
Judging by the support tickets I’ve submitted to Steinberg, I’m assuming Steinberg no longer respond to request for support. I’ve submitted 5 tickets over a month ago and so far no response. Very unprofessional !!!!!!

The last time they responded to any of my support tickets was back in 2018.


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## AudioLoco (Dec 9, 2020)

The state of controllers for Cubase is a bit "touchy".... 

There isn't any perfect (or good enough) product out there. (maybe Nuage but, it's stupidly expensive and not very well updated I've gathered).
I am using the Presonus Faderport16 which is all right for fast balancing and automations.
Can't really complain, for that use, I actually enjoy it.
But it is just ridiculous, that a company owning Yamaha tech and all its digital mixers experience can't come up with a decently priced completely dedicated controller.


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## colony nofi (Dec 9, 2020)

AudioLoco said:


> The state of controllers for Cubase is a bit "touchy"....
> 
> There isn't any perfect (or good enough) product out there. (maybe Nuage but, it's stupidly expensive and not very well updated I've gathered).
> I am using the Presonus Faderport16 which is all right for fast balancing and automations.
> ...


Yeah - it’s not brilliant. But eucon based controllers still really work incredibly well. So mcmix or s1/s3 etc. We’ve just got some s1’s in that work great. And same techniques as the mix to split the faders between motorised audio faders and non-motorised midi faders (I like 4 of each)
The integrations with Cubase are deep... and once you program some macros onto the user buttons, things can really get moving


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## Zed (Dec 24, 2020)

Ahhh, controllers, where to start. Okay, after lengthy research, I have concluded that unless you have a spare 30K sitting around then no one single device (nuage) is going to cut it for control of Cubase/Nuendo, and that is for various BS reasons, mainly protectionism but anyway, for now, it is what it is. 

So, understanding that this is the case and begrudgingly accepting it, I have set up for use with Cubase 11, a CC121 (which I have owned from new at least 10 years and is as good as the day I bought it), an AVID S1 and in the new year, I am going to try to get hold of a nOb controller (www.nobcontrol.com), they are a kickstarter thing and always sold out, they cant make them quick enough it would seem. 

The CC121 is (I think) an excellent piece of gear, well made (no question) and does what it says on the tin. I suppose the problem with it is, in a world where a lot has changed in ten years it doesn't quite have enough on the tin. 10 years ago I still had a Triton, a Supernova and a DAT machine. So a single channel strip motorised fader, with the potential of the AI knob (nice idea, hardly use it), in it's form factor, very very useful, and still is. However, everything is about control now, it (for me) is the synergy between a two dimensional digital world of flexible creativity fused with the human like analogue characteristics which the tactile nature of control surfaces allow. A total control situation for which there appears to be lot of demand but not much in the way of deliverance. Not at an acceptable price point at least.

Is it any surprise that hybrid type products have had impressive sales in recent times, with Arturia, one of a few predominantly software producers breaking out into the world of producing hardware. I have owned a version of NI Maschine since the very first one and that epitomises the hybrid synergy between tactile hardware and integrated software. I also have Ipads with controller apps, an X32 producer mixer which can be used as a Mackie/Hui DAW controller and that has 16 motorised faders and banks up to 32 output channels. Thing is the Mackie control is just useless, I don't bother with it, hinders not enhances workflow. So, again, for me £1500 worth of S1, CC121 and nOb pretty much does for me what Nuage does for a heck of a lot less money. I would prefer an all in one solution and I think maybe that will come but it does not appear likely in the immediate future.

This debate will likely rage on. If Yamaha has such a problem with AVID (and Eucon), I don't understand why they don't do the necessary work to allow Eucon to work as it was intended and if they want to compete in that market, design a new rival high speed protocol that is completely their own and bring products to market that are competitive, I fail to see why they could not produce better units than AVID as it is to work with their own software. Like with the CC121, I just want an 8-16 channel version with OLED scribble strips and faster network connection (like the S1) at a around a £1000, (I would probably pay up to £3000 but no more) is it too much to ask for? I mean when you see what they have done with what can only be described as a masterpiece, the Montage. Well, it shows what they can do when they put their minds to it. Funny thing about that though, the only remote editor you can purchase for Montage is PC based (no IOS or android) and it is not even yamaha's own proprietary software, it is produced by a very clever and very nice greek chap by the name of John Melas. Reminds me of jbridge (any one remember that one), made by Jay in his shed and Steinberg bought it off him because it worked better than their own VSTBridge which kept crashing. Yamaha have form but what can you do, AVID controllers under Eucon are your best bet even though they don't work properly. I don't know if this helps anyone but my best bit of advice on this topic. Wait it out for as long as you can (or eu con for our friends in bonnie scotland) as in this world, the next thing is generally better than the last thing but but not always. Merry Christmas everyone.


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## tboston007 (Dec 25, 2020)

I recently purchased a Qcon icon pro g2 and couldn’t be happier. It works fantastic with Cubase and with extender I have 16 channels quality motorized faders, great transport. Looks pro. Solidly built. Great price better than everything else I have tried and rarely mentioned. I like many have been searching for years for a 16 channel motorized controller that is quality and affordable. This is it for me. Can extend to 32 channels


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