# Orchestral Tools: Berlin Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion, Harps, Guitars and Grands!



## Guy Rowland (Nov 22, 2013)

Good heavens above. This just dropped onto the doormat - yes, unless I missed this already it does look like an announcement by post!

Here's a full list of what is coming "over the next months":

*Berlin Strings*
EXP A: Special Bows
EXP B: Special Bows II
EXP C: Soloists
EXP D: First Chairs
EXP E: String Effects

*Berlin Woodwinds*
EXP A: Additional Instruments
EXP B: Soloists 1
EXP C: Soloists 2
EXP D: Woodwind SFX

*Berlin Brass*
EXP A: Additional Instruments
EXP B: Muted Brass
EXP C: Horn SFX

*Berlin Percussion*
EXP A: Timpani

*The Orchestral Harps

The Orchestral Guitars

The Orchestral Grands*

All recorded at Teldex. No doubt Hendrik will be filling us in on more details / release dates over the coming months, for now the little annoucement brochure says the "most of the samples are already captured". Congrats in the meantime, looks like a phenomenal amount of work, what an achievement.

Oh, and some box artwork for some of these here - http://www.orchestraltools.com/observatory/index.html


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## Anthony N.Putson (Nov 22, 2013)

Doh, just posted this in the commercial announcements section! Hendrik, i'll do your job for you!


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 22, 2013)

Came in my mailbox today too - awesome news indeed :D


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## Dan Mott (Nov 22, 2013)

Oh dear. More strings. :D


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## Consona (Nov 22, 2013)

Still no BWW lite. :(


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## BenG (Nov 22, 2013)

When do they sleep ?!


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## peksi (Nov 22, 2013)

that page has a bit too many delicious looking instruments coming. my fever just spiked. please orchestraltools make them sound bad so i don't fall in love with them. that is just too expensive love.

out of topic: i see rental virtual instruments coming in the future. the number of great instruments is so high already it makes no sense to buy it all, same with real instruments or players. you just lease them, use them and pay for the time.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Nov 22, 2013)

Very exciting news - but oh my, 2014 is going to be expensive indeed!


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## jamwerks (Nov 22, 2013)

Cool! I wonder what's coming first?


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## dgburns (Nov 22, 2013)

hmmmm...didn't get the memo.

wonder if there's going to be bundle prices?


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## aaronnt1 (Nov 22, 2013)

Will muted brass contain legato patches? - really interested in that one! Also, for strings, what's the difference between Exp C and D?

If I'm honest, I'm not a fan of the current trend of splitting libraries into 4/5 sections that could / would normally comprise one or two larger comprehensive libraries unless the prices are reduced accordingly.


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## korgscrew (Nov 22, 2013)

aaronnt1 @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> Will muted brass contain legato patches? - really interested in that one! Also, for strings, what's the difference between Exp C and D?
> 
> If I'm honest, I'm not a fan of the current trend of splitting libraries into 4/5 sections that could / would normally comprise one or two larger comprehensive libraries unless the prices are reduced accordingly.



Im all for it if it reduces the price of the main library. I have some libraries that have articulations that I never use! If they were split, then I could buy them if I wanted, but could hang on till I did.

Im guessing the special bows will be, Sul Pont, Flautando, Col Legno etc. Although, I cant think of that many that it would split into 2 expansions!


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## Maestro77 (Nov 22, 2013)

I'm guessing it'll be at LEAST a year before all those come to fruition. I've been pondering diving into BWW but the price is a serious roadblock.


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## korgscrew (Nov 22, 2013)

Maestro77 @ Sat Nov 23 said:


> I'm guessing it'll be at LEAST a year before all those come to fruition. I've been pondering diving into BWW but the price is a serious roadblock.



Do it!

You will be writing for winds 90% of the time when you get it


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## benmrx (Nov 22, 2013)

BWW is still BY FAR my favorite library to work with. IMO, everything is super playable, well laid out, and the 'articulations performer' tops it off nicely. I can't wait to see how OT handles strings/brass! 

Interesting timing too by OT to send out this flyer now. I (and am sure others) are looking hard at Cinestrings. I'm just curious if Hendrik will give us an ETA on when these new offerings will be released. This year? _Next_ Christmas?


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## EwigWanderer (Nov 22, 2013)

benmrx @ 22nd November 2013 said:


> BWW is still BY FAR my favorite library to work with. IMO, everything is super playable, well laid out, and the 'articulations performer' tops it off nicely. I can't wait to see how OT handles strings/brass!



+1

I really hope the first one will be Berlin Brass. I do have CB core and pro, but... well I just want that Teldex sound on all sections o-[][]-o


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## MA-Simon (Nov 22, 2013)

Glad there are smalled pices building pices!

PLEASE, release A1 A2 & A3 packs like Spitfire did. 
You already have the smaller expansion packs, but I would like to see the main library split in smaller pices too.


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## Maestro77 (Nov 22, 2013)

Has anyone ever seen OT have a sale? Possibly interested in BWW (I hear all of you saying it's amazing) but $650 is just not in my budget for a woodwind library. Black Friday sale please, Hendrik?


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 22, 2013)

Maestro77 @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> Has anyone ever seen OT have a sale? Possibly interested in BWW (I hear all of you saying it's amazing) but $650 is just not in my budget for a woodwind library. Black Friday sale please, Hendrik?



Yes, they've done a few 30% sales off in the past I seem to remember. Been a while though.


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## Stiltzkin (Nov 22, 2013)

Orchestral tools libraries are like... sample porn really.. They're just so awesome ^^ I said ages ago if they ever made a string library that they'd have my money and true to my word they will 

I'll take the brass too thanks <3


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## Jordan Gagne (Nov 22, 2013)

Berlin Brass is definitely sorely needed and will probably be an instant buy for me assuming the pricing is reasonable.

That being said, I'm not sure how much the market needs Berlin Percussion.


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## ScoringFilm (Nov 22, 2013)

I agree that Orchestral Tools libs are well thought out, well programmed and sound great. The one thing that puts me off slightly is the lack of combined patches (like Spitfire); I know that there is the articulation performer, however it still uses up significantly more slots than one combined patch.

Justin


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## Peter Alexander (Nov 22, 2013)

Jordan Gagne @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> Berlin Brass is definitely sorely needed and will probably be an instant buy for me assuming the pricing is reasonable.
> 
> That being said, I'm not sure how much the market needs Berlin Percussion.



Berlin percussion is needed so that the entire OST orchestra is in the same room, making virtual mixing easier for the customer who buys the whole bundle.


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## Jordan Gagne (Nov 22, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> Jordan Gagne @ Fri Nov 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Berlin Brass is definitely sorely needed and will probably be an instant buy for me assuming the pricing is reasonable.
> ...



I understand that, but very few composers use only ONE sample company for their entire template, so while it could prove useful to some (and I'm sure it would sound great in general), it definitely seems like a low-priority library to the sample market, given how much percussion has been done, and done well.


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## Maestro77 (Nov 22, 2013)

I agree. While it'd be interesting to see OT's twist on percussion there are already plenty of great perc libs out there. It would have to be very competitively priced to get me to grab another one.


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## Jordan Gagne (Nov 22, 2013)

ScoringFilm @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> I agree that Orchestral Tools libs are well thought out, well programmed and sound great. The one thing that puts me off slightly is the lack of combined patches (like Spitfire); I know that there is the articulation performer, however it still uses up significantly more slots than one combined patch.
> 
> Justin



I'll second this. Spitfire's combined patches and customizable GUI has made it hard to go back to any other way of doing it.


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## renegade (Nov 22, 2013)

Yes...the price...We know the price of the woodwinds. And I think strings and brass will cost more.

The woodwinds (incl exp) is 997 euro.
Strings: 1500-2000 euro
Brass: around 1500 euro
Percussion: around 500-1000 euro
Harps, guitars, pianos: 500 euro

Around 5.500 euro for the whole set sounds reasonable to me.

(edit: VAT incl.)


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## Maestro77 (Nov 22, 2013)

Yikes. Well, if prices are anywhere close to your estimates I'll be sticking with what I have! Those aren't at all competitive with others on the market. Then again, neither is BWW.


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## muziksculp (Nov 22, 2013)

Awesome News !

Very happy to see them releasing Strings o/~


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## renegade (Nov 22, 2013)

Maestro77 @ Fri 22 Nov said:


> Yikes. Well, if prices are anywhere close to your estimates I'll be sticking with what I have! Those aren't at all competitive with others on the market. Then again, neither is BWW.



Well, maybe a little less than 5.500. I think the perc. needs to be 500 euro max to compete with what else is on the market. And maybe the strings and brass don't cost _that_ much more. And it depends how comprehensive the volumes are. But I think Hendrik is going all in on this project!


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## EwigWanderer (Nov 22, 2013)

renegade @ 22nd November 2013 said:


> Yes...the price...We know the price of the woodwinds. And I think strings and brass will cost more.
> 
> The woodwinds (incl exp) is 997 euro.
> Strings: 1500-2000 euro
> ...



Then they might be out of my price range. My hope is to have only Berlin series on my orchestral template. Makes mixing so much easier especially when writing more traditional orchestrated music. 

I had a hope that after timpani there would be a few smaller percussions from OT. Snares and bass drums, metals (piatti, suspended cymbals, tam tam) or something similar. So called basic percs and not a whole range.


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## jamwerks (Nov 22, 2013)

I imagine these Berlin libraries will be less expensive than BML, and more in line with HW & CS.

Quality wise there's no reason they shouldn't beat CB & HB (or add something different), in which case I'd be buying for sure.

Hendrik seems to know what he is doing when it comes to creating real & musical articulations, so the brass & strings will be interesting to hear.

Hope they decided to furnish more mic perspectives than they did with BWW. Something like: close, stage, tree, outrigger, surround, & maybe a stereo mix or two, would be very useful. 

Looking forward to these!


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## playz123 (Nov 22, 2013)

jamwerks @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> Hendrik seems to know what he is doing when it comes to creating real & musical articulations



And that, in a nutshell, is why OT products are so good, so popular and so worth having. Hendrik AND his team are meticulous and pay great attention to detail, their musicians are carefully chosen, the hall they use is superb and the libraries can often be blended well with those from some other developers. No the products are not 'inexpensive', but IMO neither are they overpriced. In this case, you get what you pay for. Previously, I never paid as much attention to woodwinds as I should have, but after BWW was released all that changed.


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## Chriss Ons (Nov 22, 2013)

Excellent news. Nice looking and classy flyer, too - love the part that says:



> What you can see inside this brochure is just the beginning. More expansions will be added to the BERLIN SERIES (...) a living library which will be extended with new ideas, additional instruments and up-to-date techniques over the next years.



I like both the modular approach and the long term vision...
One helluva project - way to go, OT!


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## EwigWanderer (Nov 22, 2013)

BTW When did this email arrived? I haven't got one yet. Even though I've been a customer since preordering OSR back in the day.


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## Chriss Ons (Nov 22, 2013)

@ EwigWanderer: It was not an e-mail, but a letter which came in the mail today.


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## EwigWanderer (Nov 22, 2013)

Josquin @ 23rd November 2013 said:


> @ EwigWanderer: It was not an e-mail, but a letter which came in the mail today.



Aah...Ok, thanks for the info. Pretty classy


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## constaneum (Nov 22, 2013)

their price is a killing factor. By the way, what's the difference between First Chair and Soloist? If basing on context of Audiobro's LASS First Chair (it's just solo strings sampled to be layered with ensembles). Is this the case for OT too?


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## jamwerks (Nov 22, 2013)

constaneum @ Sat Nov 23 said:


> their price is a killing factor.


No prices have been announced.


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## TSU (Nov 22, 2013)

*constaneum*, I think First Chair will be recorded in the orchestral position, Solo Strings will be recorded dry.


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## Darryl Jackson (Nov 22, 2013)

I absolutely love Berlin Woodwinds and its expansions! That said, I agree with some of the others: I'd prefer to just buy one or two parts of a library (CineBrass' patch distribution is -nearly- perfect), unless the price for splitting things up much more is particularly enticing (CinePerc's pricing comes to mind). 

With how most of OT's products are priced, I just don't see myself buying two more expansions for BWW AND the 6 parts of Berlin Strings (which seems a bit excessive to me, although I have no doubt that it'll be deeply sampled). Again, this is assuming the price will be comparable to BWW + its expansions. 

I think the idea might be to have people buy the core library and only pick up the expansions that seem relevant to a particular person, treating them almost as different, optional products entirely. That sounds absolutely fantastic in theory, but my only concern would be that it would be very easy to leave out a particular popular articulation or instrument from the core library, turning very many of the expansions into "must haves" that would have to be taken into account when budgeting (which for me was the Contrabassoon in Exp A and the English Horn in Exp B, although Exp A was *very *reasonably priced).


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## benmrx (Nov 22, 2013)

I guess I don't quite understand why people keep saying that OT products are so expensive compared to the competition. Seems to come up with BWW all the time.

BWW + Exp A + Exp B = $837 (us)
Cinewinds bundle + Hollywoodwinds = $850

What am I missing?

And look at Symphonic Sphere for crying out loud! That's one of the BEST bang-for-your-buck purchases out there IMO.


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## Peter Alexander (Nov 22, 2013)

Jordan Gagne @ Fri Nov 22 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Fri Nov 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Jordan Gagne @ Fri Nov 22 said:
> ...



Spitfire percussion is recorded in Air Lyndhurst and matches the other libs.

EW Hollywood Percussion is recorded in EW Studio 1 and matches the strings, brass, and woods.

VSL Percussion recorded on the Silent Stage and matches the entire library.

Cinesamples percussion recorded at Sony with the rest of the orchestra.

OST, recording in Teldex, will be the 5th complete orchestral library (6th if you count in SONiVOX). Leave out percussion and it's incomplete and a very very weak marketing decision especially long range, given potential licensing opportunities. 

I respect your opinion, but don't concur.


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## aaronnt1 (Nov 22, 2013)

Darryl Jackson @ Sat 23 Nov said:


> That sounds absolutely fantastic in theory, but my only concern would be that it would be very easy to leave out a particular popular articulation or instrument from the core library, turning very many of the expansions into "must haves"....



Yes thats's my concern too. I've never brought anything from Orchestral Tools but they seem to have a great reputation so I'm sure they wouldn't engage in such practises as that!

I'm looking forward to seeing what's included in each section. 6 separate sections for strings! Perhaps they will be sampling everything, along the lines of VSL but taking things even further? And two rather than one libraries for Special Bows...? Yet no separate con sordino library which suggests it's included in the core - my guess is it will be a con sord effect like Hollywood Strings...


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## muk (Nov 23, 2013)

In my opinion OT and the BML range offer new options for those who write more classically (not exclusively, of course). For a long time, VSL have been the only company to offer the full orchestral range suited for classical writing (the other libraries are geared towards a cinematic sound). But now there'll be steep competition from OST and Spitfire. And I think it's great to have the choice to buy the whole package from one company, or just the individual modules you need.
Considering the fact that the whole VSL package costs somewhere north of 10'000$ (the whole BML range will probably too once it's completed), I think that the Orchestral Tool's range will be very tempting. Assuming that the not yet released libraries live up to the standards set, that is.


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## alexnmt (Nov 23, 2013)

aaronnt1 @ Sat 23 Nov said:


> Yes thats's my concern too. I've never brought anything from Orchestral Tools but they seem to have a great reputation so I'm sure they wouldn't engage in such practises as that!
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing what's included in each section. 6 separate sections for strings! Perhaps they will be sampling everything, along the lines of VSL but taking things even further? And two rather than one libraries for Special Bows...? Yet no separate con sordino library which suggests it's included in the core - my guess is it will be a con sord effect like Hollywood Strings...




Yeah it looks like the sordino patches will be an effect because if you read their tech blog, they have a post about creating the effect. http://www.orchestraltools.com/techblog/index.html

Also, if you look at the cover art for the special bows, EXP A says upper strings and EXP B says lower strings. Presumably that is to make it not one huge purchase, but I’m just looking forward to hear the sul tasto samples.


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## aaronnt1 (Nov 23, 2013)

alexnmt @ Sat 23 Nov said:


> aaronnt1 @ Sat 23 Nov said:
> 
> 
> > Yes thats's my concern too. I've never brought anything from Orchestral Tools but they seem to have a great reputation so I'm sure they wouldn't engage in such practises as that!
> ...



Ah I see. For a moment I thought you meant upper / lower strings as in the actual top two / bottom strings for each instrument which would be odd but I guess it means the violins and violas as one Exp and the celli and basses as the other. :mrgreen: 

So I guess this gives the option at least to budget and prioritise immediate needs. I wonder if there will be bundle deals?

The sordino effect in HS is very good so I'm sure it will be in Berlin Strings too.


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## midi_controller (Nov 23, 2013)

alexnmt @ Sat Nov 23 said:


> Yeah it looks like the sordino patches will be an effect because if you read their tech blog, they have a post about creating the effect. http://www.orchestraltools.com/techblog/index.html



I really think this is a mistake on their part. Mutes don't just change the tone and frequency response of the instruments themselves, but almost everything else from the way the bow interacts with the string and how the players play the instruments to the way the instruments interact with the room and the microphones. It's not something you can simulate and have it sound nearly as good. Overall it's up to Orchestral Tools to decide what they want to do, but it would be such a shame for what looks like a very comprehensive string library to not sample something that is used constantly in string writing.


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 23, 2013)

midi_controller @ Sat Nov 23 said:


> alexnmt @ Sat Nov 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah it looks like the sordino patches will be an effect because if you read their tech blog, they have a post about creating the effect. http://www.orchestraltools.com/techblog/index.html
> ...



+1 on this. I love Orchestral Tools libraries - they offer products that enable the composer to do more detailed writing than with some their competitors libraries. Spitfire has a similar approach. To compromise by omitting mutes makes no sense to me in a library where compromises are avoided in any other category. I hope they decide to offer both - a quick and easy simulated _con sordino_ for the main library, plus a dedicated _sordino_ expansion, even if for they were to leave out some of the more elaborate articulations.


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## MA-Simon (Nov 23, 2013)

Got the letter today too!
Nice!


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## Walid F. (Nov 23, 2013)

This made my whole day. -Can not- wait for any of these - especially BB!!


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## jamwerks (Nov 23, 2013)

Mihkel Zilmer @ Sat Nov 23 said:


> +1 on this. I love Orchestral Tools libraries - they offer products that enable the composer to do more detailed writing than with some their competitors libraries. Spitfire has a similar approach. To compromise by omitting mutes makes no sense to me in a library where compromises are avoided in any other category.


I agree. OT seems to be alone the lines of VSL in that they do lots of arts, and appeal to the "classical" composers (as opposed to trailer music, etc.), so that would be a pity not to do real sordinos .The tremolos are something that others left out, but OT in Sym Spheres & BWW did. A complete set of real sordino patches would be a real plus in my view.


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## korgscrew (Nov 24, 2013)

jamwerks @ Sat Nov 23 said:


> Mihkel Zilmer @ Sat Nov 23 said:
> 
> 
> > +1 on this. I love Orchestral Tools libraries - they offer products that enable the composer to do more detailed writing than with some their competitors libraries. Spitfire has a similar approach. To compromise by omitting mutes makes no sense to me in a library where compromises are avoided in any other category.
> ...



If you were to process the samples to sound sordino (or sardine as my mac wants me to type), then you would be processing the hall too. It isn't a true reflection on how CS would sound in my opinion.

Saying that sampling sordino is twice as much work etc really isn't an excuse.Thats like saying, we recorded the brass, now we are going to simulate the mutes. Or sampling a clarinet, pitching it and selling it as a bass clarinet.

One way or another, they either get it spot on and nobody can tell the difference, or it won't work and they scrap it.


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