# Logic 10.7.3 Update -Environment is now a Legacy feature



## Ozinga (Mar 15, 2022)

Since this update puts Environment to Legacy section, wonder what is going to replace it?
It seems that the next update will be a big one.


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## samphony (Mar 15, 2022)

The next update will probably be 10.7.4 where it moves the environment back to the windows section. 🤣


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 15, 2022)

Probably just hiding it away with no intention to update it. I can't imagine many folk dip into it nowadays.

Still puzzling though that Apple are now selling expensive displays yet haven't updated many of the Logic plugin GUI's stuck in low res fuzzy mode. I know I keep harping on about this, but it seems like a strange oversight.

Anyway, they've fixed the smart control bug I moaned about, so I'm happy.


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## Hans-Peter (Mar 15, 2022)

So happy I jumped boat. The environment was the best Logic could offer and what made it flexible to work with. Without the environment, Logic is dead to me.


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## marclawsonmusic (Mar 15, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> I can't imagine many folk dip into it nowadays.


I built my entire last template (300+ tracks) using the Environment!

One unexpected (but welcome) outcome was the resulting file size was only 3MB.  Fully routed with auxes and all. My takeaway was that using the Environment was a lot leaner than using the wizards.

But I was using lots of External MIDI tracks wired to multi-timbral VEPro instrument tracks. And it seems that the preferred use of Logic these days is to load up your project with lots of Software Instrument tracks instead (which it could always handle well). Sounds like they might be finally leaving the multi-timbral approach in the past. 

I think I'm going to wait for the M(x) Mac Pro and try the new architecture later this year. Then, I guess it's time to build template #74 (LOL) using a hell-ton of Software Instruments!

(At least track delay works with Software Instruments...)


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## titokane (Mar 15, 2022)

Command + 0 thankfully still brings up the environment, and the option presents itself if you Option + Click on the "Window" menu at the top of the screen (at least for now). I've been relying on the Environment more and more for my current orchestral template, especially in terms of mapping percussion instruments with drum names / key labels so that the midi editor shows their names. 

Currently I have to use the Environment to either make a mapped instrument (labels but no meters on the channel strip) or remap a Drum Machine Designer instance so that every pad is mapped to the same instance of Kontakt, VE Pro, etc (can cause clutter, only allows 48 labels per instrument). 

If Logic had a simple key labeling feature for all plugins like they do with DMD and Sampler, I wouldn't need the environment, but for now it looks like I'll have to be much more nervous about updating. 

Hopefully this is just temporary so that they can make it prettier, easier, and more functional, because I feel like it's necessary for so many types of workflows to be able to go in and rewire everything.


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## khollister (Mar 15, 2022)

One bit of good news here is 10.7.3 seems to have gotten rid of the Kontakt bug introduced with 6.7.0 where many instruments would load extremely slowly, especially if you dragged the instrument from the library browser into the instrument pane to replace an existing one. Bioscape was horrible about this. I reported it to the Kontakt beta team but never got a reply - wonder if they got onto Apple about it.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 15, 2022)

My take is that the environment has been getting some significant bugs in recent updates to LogicPro and Apple doesn't want to bother fixing those bugs or keeping it going. Serious bugs actually and lots of moaning and groaning from folks that need to use the environment.

I think they consider it this old legacy bit of code that is probably a bit of a spider web in terms of internal coding in the app. At some point they have to consider whether to keep trying to maintain it, replace it or get rid of it....and honestly...most people simply don't use it. The environment as is, does not fit with the typical Apple paradigm.

Myself, I have only used it for simple routing and transform tasks which could probably be handled much more effectively by improving the GUI of LogicPro for those kinds of scenarios..perhaps more like how MainStage is designed. The existing environment is a bit of a support quagmire for them honestly speaking.

I guess also they don't plan to fix some of the recent bugs in the environment, instead they are just hiding it, calling it "Legacy" and saying use it at your own risk. My take is that it will stick around for a little while, as a hidden feature, but I would personally not expect it to remain forever, its clear to me they are phasing it out. 

They will need to provide easier high level GUI features to cover the vast majority of cases, simple pre-sequencer transforms, for example, filtering, drum map configuration, etc. They already added the Midi input channel and port capability recently, which was already a step towards eliminating the need for environment, and I suspect there will be more tings like that until they finally say, "we don't need it" and it will be gone. 

I do feel sorry for folks that have built really cool environment contraptions for whatever purpose, but those folks will have to look to other tools for doing that kind of thing. There are a variety of other programs, some of which can operate as plugins, which provide much more sophisticated visual programming then even the environment can provide...so I would encourage folks to start looking into those kinds of solutions.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 15, 2022)

I have personally already found that 10.7.3 fixed some significant bugs that I had been running into, so well done on that front.


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## IFM (Mar 15, 2022)

This update seems to really have massively improved the sluggish GUI. So far with some initial testing, it didn't matter how many tracks were displayed I was able to drag objects around quickly.


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## samphony (Mar 15, 2022)

It should also improve the single core spike issue on the Apple Silicon macs.


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## NOX (Mar 15, 2022)

Dewdman42 is indeed right and (I've just checked) 10.7.3_ does not_ fix environment problems that I've started noticing at 10.7.0. It is unusable and broken. I have an extensive environment set up in my orchestral template, I've worked "hard" a whole decade (!) to get it done but now I'm stuck at Logic 10.6.0 if I want it to work.

To give you an idea you can see below my main page, all the programming is behind. Basically each instrument of all four orchestral sections can have their individual tracks notes mapped to chords/scales while controlling for reverb expression,dynamics volume solo/mute articulations and various CC's. saved into presets that can be switched on the fly realtime. So its like composing orchestrating and mixing integrated. Right now the preset function is broken in 10.7.3. I'm sorry to say.

It is quite the bad news that Apple is ditching the environment in Logic Pro. Or perhaps I should instead appreciate that they have dragged this "weird environment thing" until now. It is a bit weird... but its quite lovely what you can do with it.

Now I just hope they fix it one last time before completely giving up on it, because right now the environment is clearly broken in Logic 10.7.3. whereas everything works fine in 10.6.0. I'm on Monterey MacBook Pro 16 I9 64 gig.


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## dgburns (Mar 15, 2022)

Anything else, other than the immersive audio stuff in the 10.7.x versions, to tempt someone away from 10.6.x ?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 15, 2022)

marclawsonmusic said:


> And it seems that the preferred use of Logic these days is to load up your project with lots of Software Instrument tracks instead (which it could always handle well). Sounds like they might be finally leaving the multi-timbral approach in the past.


Yes, the dynamic loading feature is a Godsend. Because of that, I no longer use VEPro and can have 300+ tracks in a template no problem.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 15, 2022)

They added the ability to specify on a track by track basis the input midi port and channel to use.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 15, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Yes, the dynamic loading feature is a Godsend. Because of that, I no longer use VEPro and can have 300+ tracks in a template no problem.


It’s a great feature. I just wish there was a way to keep instruments and sample data in ram when switching between project alternatives. That would be the cherry.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 15, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> It’s a great feature. I just wish there was a way to keep instruments and sample data in ram when switching between project alternatives. That would be the cherry.


Now THAT is a good feature request.


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## eakwarren (Mar 15, 2022)

I may be missing something, but where did Apple say the environment was legacy? I don't see mention of it in the Logic Pro 10.7.3 Release Notes. In fact, the environment is mentioned 3 times re: bug fixes (creating a macro, touch tracks trigger mode, and transformer objects.)

And I see they fixed the 18 track monitoring bug I reported. Yay!



> MIDI input
> 
> Fixes an issue that now enables live signal monitoring for more than 18 incoming MIDI tracks.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 15, 2022)

https://support.apple.com/guide/logicpro/environment-overview-lgcpf755dc51/mac





> Note: The Environment is a legacy feature and included for compatibility with projects from older versions of Logic Pro.


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## eakwarren (Mar 15, 2022)

Well pfffft!

The older I get "legacy" and "vintage" doesn't sound so bad.


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## A.G (Mar 16, 2022)

The Logic Environment has been always the main advantage in comparison with the other DAWs.
It allows you do build all sort of MIDI processing systems, routings etc. The MIDI FX plugins and the Scripter are good too, but they are "*Post*". The Environment allows the users or the advanced developers to build "*Pre*" sequencer MIDI FX. For example, I have developed a MIDI Latch Scripter pugin, but is not so efficient, because it latches the Notes on the Fly and is good for the "Main Stage" app, for example. I have built another MIDI Latch environment Macro so all "Processed" latching Notes (say the left hand chords) are recorded as long sustained Note events which is perfect. A good "Divisi" environment Macro tool is possible as well etc.

To my opinion, Apple must keep the environment as it is (if they do not plan to update it), it is quite good at the moment. It does not matter if it is called "legacy", "old" etc. It must be there...


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 16, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Now THAT is a good feature request.



If Apple elaborated on alternatives, it could be a nice set of tools for media composers.
Things like common scene marker sets across all alternatives, ability to view pooled audio etc. A couple of nesting/folder features for managing the alternatives. I could wander quite OT on this..


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## Dom (Mar 17, 2022)

dgburns said:


> Anything else, other than the immersive audio stuff in the 10.7.x versions, to tempt someone away from 10.6.x ?


I didn't need the immersive stuff, but 10.6.x on Big Sur was giving me constant graphical glitches on a Mac Pro 2019. Moving to 10.7.x fixed the issues. 

I'm still missing LPX 10.4.8 on Catalina. It was the most glitch free and most stable version of Logic ever, and I started on Logic 1.7!


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## MaxOctane (Mar 17, 2022)

_"Hey Apple, can we finally get nested folders, pretty please?"
_
"No can do, but you CAN now position your tracks inside a fully-animated seven-dimensional hypercube. Here's a Marvin Gaye track we remixed to show this off!"


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## davidson (Mar 17, 2022)

samphony said:


> It should also improve the single core spike issue on the Apple Silicon macs.


How so?


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## charlieclouser (Mar 17, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> It’s a great feature. I just wish there was a way to keep instruments and sample data in ram when switching between project alternatives. That would be the cherry.


If you exclusively use EXS / Sampler (like some people we know), you'd have had this feature for almost 20 years now!


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## samphony (Mar 17, 2022)

davidson said:


> How so?


By not spiking at all when in live mode!


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## davidson (Mar 17, 2022)

samphony said:


> By not spiking at all when in live mode!


Absolutely no improvements over here as far as cpu spikes


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## samphony (Mar 17, 2022)

davidson said:


> Absolutely no improvements over here as far as cpu spikes


Are you using Apple Silicon in native mode?


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## davidson (Mar 17, 2022)

samphony said:


> Are you using Apple Silicon in native mode?


Yeah, and I've also tried rosetta. in fact, i think I'm getting worse native performance with this update than before!


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## Andy_P (Mar 17, 2022)

It is crazy that Apple's own DAW performs worse than the competition on their own machine and OS!
10.7.3 solved a lot of problems but single core spike is still there. Also lots of 3rd party plugins have lost automation data in Rosetta mode including Arturia and Spectrasonics instruments.


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## rsg22 (Mar 17, 2022)

davidson said:


> Absolutely no improvements over here as far as cpu spikes


I only tested for about 30 minutes but I'm now seeing vastly improved single-thread performance and no spikes. I'm testing with my previous worst-offender Knifonium (infamously CPU-hungry and now native). Caveat: I updated Monterey, Logic, and Knifonium at the same time so I can't say which update or combination of updates improved my situation.

On a MBP M1 Pro, I can now play Knifonium live, 48k project, I/O buffer 64 samples. I couldn't even dream of doing this before and commonly got CPU spikes and dropouts even at 512-1024 I/O buffer with the single-core sitting between 50-70% and frequently spiking up to 100%. Now at an even lower buffer setting, single-core is sitting around 20% and barely moves.

I need to test more later and push it further but so far so good.

Are you still seeing CPU spikes across the board or only with specific plugins?


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## davidson (Mar 17, 2022)

rsg22 said:


> I only tested for about 30 minutes but I'm now seeing vastly improved single-thread performance and no spikes. I'm testing with my previous worst-offender Knifonium (infamously CPU-hungry and now native). Caveat: I updated Monterey, Logic, and Knifonium at the same time so I can't say which update or combination of updates improved my situation.
> 
> On a MBP M1 Pro, I can now play Knifonium live, 48k project, I/O buffer 64 samples. I couldn't even dream of doing this before and commonly got CPU spikes and dropouts even at 512-1024 I/O buffer with the single-core sitting between 50-70% and frequently spiking up to 100%. Now at an even lower buffer setting, single-core is sitting around 20% and barely moves.
> 
> ...


Well I was working on a project (in native) the last few days with an array of plugs and I was getting some terrible cpu usage, like the project sitting at 95%. As I was in native it's hard to say what was the culprit as some plugs will have been opening in rosetta. I do have a 'stress test' library, which is cycles by s+a. The preset 'Abstract ll' pops, crackles, and causes all kinds of issues in logic with a single key held down if I stick the speed in cycles to 4x. Even at 1x I sit at ~50% with 100% spikes. That's with a 128 buffer. 

I'm still on big sur, but my studio should be here next month so fingers crossed I see some improvements with Monterey.


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## samphony (Mar 17, 2022)

davidson said:


> Well I was working on a project (in native) the last few days with an array of plugs and I was getting some terrible cpu usage, like the project sitting at 95%. As I was in native it's hard to say what was the culprit as some plugs will have been opening in rosetta. I do have a 'stress test' library, which is cycles by s+a. The preset 'Abstract ll' pops, crackles, and causes all kinds of issues in logic with a single key held down if I stick the speed in cycles to 4x. Even at 1x I sit at ~50% with 100% spikes. That's with a 128 buffer.
> 
> I'm still on big sur, but my studio should be here next month so fingers crossed I see some improvements with Monterey.


Sorry are all these plugins native as well or do they use the intel bridge if logic is native?
Do you use an m1max or m1pro?


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## davidson (Mar 18, 2022)

samphony said:


> Sorry are all these plugins native as well or do they use the intel bridge if logic is native?
> Do you use an m1max or m1pro?


The project I mentioned was mostly native, but some rosetta. The cycles example though is all native, just logic in native with a single native kontakt. I'm currently on an m1 mini. I didn't realise you were referring to the laptop's performing better, but thats good to hear.


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## samphony (Mar 18, 2022)

davidson said:


> The project I mentioned was mostly native, but some rosetta. The cycles example though is all native, just logic in native with a single native kontakt. I'm currently on an m1 mini. I didn't realise you were referring to the laptop's performing better, but thats good to hear.


Yes as far as i know the m1max and ultras and maybe m1pro should highly benefit from this regarding multi core live performance.


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## KMA (Mar 18, 2022)

samphony said:


> It should also improve the single core spike issue on the Apple Silicon macs.


I got my new M1 Macbook Pro this week, and the cpu spiking was the first thing I noticed.

I updated both Monterey and Logic this morning, and it's gone! The machine is now properly quick.


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## D4rkKn1ght (Mar 18, 2022)

I didn't even test it long enough to see if there were any performance improvements (I'm still on Intel. Maxed-out spec 2020 iMac), because 10.7.3 broke automation. I use mostly VSL Synchron stuff for my orchestra and the track automation parameters for all of them disappeared. Literally makes 10.7.3 unusable for me.

In my opinion Logic team is focusing on all the wrong things. All this spatial audio stuff is nice, but shouldn't be a higher priority than performance improvements (which are desperately needed) and some of the frequently and consistently requested features.

I mean c'mon... a plugin search mechanism has been requested for so long and so consistently it's basically a meme at this point. And there's not a hint that they care about that or have the slightest intention of implementing it. I'm right on the verge of moving to Cubase.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 18, 2022)

D4rkKn1ght said:


> I mean c'mon... a plugin search mechanism has been requested for so long and so consistently it's basically a meme at this point. And there's not a hint that they care about that or have the slightest intention of implementing it. I'm right on the verge of moving to Cubase.











PlugSearch 3 Product Page







speakerfood.com





It's so much better than just standard plugin search that other DAWs offer. It can do plugin search (by name, category, manufacturer), articulation set search, auto-insert of specific plugins via MIDI CC (trigger from a stream deck for example), etc. Best $30 I've spent for Logic.


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## D4rkKn1ght (Mar 18, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> PlugSearch 3 Product Page
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm aware of it. But of course, it's a separate thing running externally and it would just be better to have something integrated into the software. I also picked this example as it's something so basic that every other DAW I know of has some version of it and people have been asking Apple for it for many years and yet it's gone ignored. So it was more to illustrate that point.

But I'm glad you enjoy it and it works for you. I know many people use it, but it should be a function that's integrated into the software is my point. It's not a complex thing to incorporate.

There are of course other examples that illustrate the same point; that Logic aren't really listening or catering to the customers that much. And what I've been observing is that when they DO listen, it's mostly the DJ/looping/electronic/producer style music that they're catering to these days. Nothing against that kind of music and I'm glad that it's being catered, but composers have been abandoned by Logic for the last few years now. It's time for some of those kinds of features to be added in to stay balanced and not just become an alternative to Ableton. Otherwise Cubase will truly end up becoming the only game in town for serious composers. And I much prefer the UI and interface designs that Apple do. That's one thing they do maybe the best (or at least amongst the best). Logical, intuitive and good looking UI.

I use Wavelab for mastering and it's amazing, but its workflows and layout in many ways are silly and counter-intuitive. And I've only used Cubase a little, but I think it may be similar in that it's the most feature-rich DAW there is, but compared to Logic's UI and layout/workflow, it's less pleasant and intuitive.

So I just really hope that Logic get back in the race and start competing again soon. Otherwise I'll have to join the vast majority of composers and move to Cubase.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 18, 2022)

D4rkKn1ght said:


> Yeah I'm aware of it. But of course, it's a separate thing running externally and it would just be better to have something integrated into the software. I also picked this example as it's something so basic that every other DAW I know of has some version of it and people have been asking Apple for it for many years and yet it's gone ignored. So it was more to illustrate that point.
> 
> But I'm glad you enjoy it and it works for you. I know many people use it, but it should be a function that's integrated into the software is my point. It's not a complex thing to incorporate.
> 
> ...


Having worked extensively with large templates in both Cubase 12 now and Logic, I promise you Cubase has just as many issues and Steinberg doesn’t address many longstanding complaints. In LA at least, just as many composers are running Logic from my experience. But if you would like to believe the grass is greener, who am I to stop you 

(I’ve recently been spending more time in Logic and loving a number of the workflow aspects vs Cubase.)


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## D4rkKn1ght (Mar 18, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Having worked extensively with large templates in both Cubase 12 now and Logic, I promise you Cubase has just as many issues and Steinberg doesn’t address many longstanding complaints. In LA at least, just as many composers are running Logic from my experience. But if you would like to believe the grass is greener, who am I to stop you
> 
> (I’ve recently been spending more time in Logic and loving a number of the workflow aspects vs Cubase.)


I mean, I don't WANT to leave Logic. So probably the opposite; I don't want to believe the grass is greener. I'm just basing it on what I've seen and heard. My sample size is based on watching YouTube videos of professionals (usual suspects like Daniel James, Guy Michelmore etc) and then the big Hollywood composers, a vast majority of which (as far as I'm aware) work in Cubase/Nuendo. A notable exception being John Powell who I know composes in Logic still. Also my music mentor who was a lifelong Logic user moved to Cubase last year. He also know many serious people in the industry and that's why he eventually moved himself. Maybe my sample size is too small. I dunno. But I've seen some online polls of DAW usage also that have Cubase far and away in the number one spot of usage percentage.

Again, if I'm biased at all (which I don't think I am), it would be in the other direction. I like Logic. But I have been a little disappointed with the development path of Logic in the last few years. Very little innovation and new features for composers. Not to mention so buggy. Although I know every DAW has its bugs. So I can't say if it's more or less than any other DAW.

But you'd think the Logic team would have an advantage in designing for one computer brand, which is their brand. There's far less variance in the ecosystem they're designing for than the other DAW developers who are catering to both macOS and Windows. And within windows there is so much more variance as well as it's far more modular/open source than macOS. So I guess I'm surprised Logic doesn't have better performance and fewer bugs given this seeming advantage.

Then again, I'm not a software developer so what the hell do I know. All I know is I'd love fewer bugs, better performance and after that, some new, competitive composing features would be great. That's all I want! EASY! 😜


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## D4rkKn1ght (Mar 18, 2022)

Actually, if you're someone who's thoroughly used Logic AND Cubase, what are some things I'd hate if I moved to Cubase? I can't really find many people talking about this. What are the big (or small) things I'd miss and think "I've made a huge mistake". Did/do you have any of those experiences?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 18, 2022)

D4rkKn1ght said:


> Actually, if you're someone who's thoroughly used Logic AND Cubase, what are some things I'd hate if I moved to Cubase? I can't really find many people talking about this. What are the big (or small) things I'd miss and think "I've made a huge mistake". Did/do you have any of those experiences?


I don’t want to derail this thread / turn it into a DAW war - plenty of other threads here for that. Including ones that are Logic vs Cubase I encourage you to check out. Also I don’t care what you use (and am not trying to persuade you) and I’m sure neither will your clients. Only you should care about your tools. Cubase has plenty of bugs. And Logic has better performance especially when it comes to how it handles FX sends. I prefer Logic’s UI (like inspector), auto tempo, score editor, articulation sets, and even a number of things about the MIDI editor. I prefer how Cubase handles track organization and some other features. Cubase 12 should have a demo soon so no better way to check it out.

John Powell is certainly not the only big name on Logic - there are much bigger names than the YouTubers you mentioned that use Logic (not to say professionals don’t use Cubase - but your info seems biased and misinformed).


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## R10k (Mar 20, 2022)

D4rkKn1ght said:


> My sample size is based on watching YouTube videos of professionals (usual suspects like Daniel James, Guy Michelmore etc) and then the big Hollywood composers, a vast majority of which (as far as I'm aware) work in Cubase/Nuendo. A notable exception being John Powell who I know composes in Logic still.


I quite like how Jacob Collier talks about Logic. He started using it when he began his musical journey, and now knows it so well he hasn't contemplated switching to anything else. He knows what he wants to do and he figures out how to make Logic pull that off. The music for him is the focus, not the DAW.

Obviously he probably isn't on a deadline. If you have a job to do and Cubase lets you get it done faster or easier then... just use it. Don't worry about who else is using it.


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## jcrosby (Mar 20, 2022)

D4rkKn1ght said:


> And what I've been observing is that when they DO listen, it's mostly the DJ/looping/electronic/producer style music that they're catering to these days.


EVERY DAW is going through this phase at the moment, it's hardly just Logic. Even DP, a DAW with a heavy film-score-centric userbase and feature set added essentially the most Ableton Live-like feature I've seen implemented yet in a DAW in their last version. People also said the same thing about Studio One over starting around version 4 onward, forums were (and continue to be) filled with grumpy S1 users complaining that Presonus are clearly only focusing on the hip hop and EDM crowd. Meanwhile they recently added their own version of articulation maps and related features that clearly indicate they're just as interested in the orchestral VI crowd. Cubase also happens to be used by just as many charting EDM artists as film composers, and has been for decades...

At the end of the day a DAW is a tool in the toolbox, and different people use different tools.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 20, 2022)

Sticking with Logic until Tim pulls the plug or I’m pushing daisies. Honestly, the sense of peace is real.


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## gsilbers (Mar 20, 2022)

D4rkKn1ght said:


> Yeah I'm aware of it. But of course, it's a separate thing running externally and it would just be better to have something integrated into the software. I also picked this example as it's something so basic that every other DAW I know of has some version of it and people have been asking Apple for it for many years and yet it's gone ignored. So it was more to illustrate that point.
> 
> But I'm glad you enjoy it and it works for you. I know many people use it, but it should be a function that's integrated into the software is my point. It's not a complex thing to incorporate.
> 
> ...



I agree. Logic seems to be dropping the ball. For years the only thing that seems relevant or new has been the live loops, autosampler/sampler and innmersive audio. The rest has been small peanuts imo. 
All while all other daws have been churning out amazing new features. 
So not sure whast happening at apple and its logic pro team, but they seem to be lagging. Either thanks to the transition to AS or they just see in their stats that they want to take on ableton live daw and be the "cool new kid in town" instead of the "pro". 
Im also guessing the rewrite to do inmersive audio might have been challenging. And thats a general corporation strategy so apple can sell more headphones and apple music inmmersive audio before the competition. BEcause apple knows the pro tools/dolby version is a joke. (an overly complex joke). Yet, the logic verison is just for music and it follows their crappy surround implementation where stem deliverables is not part of their relaity. 

but It shows when some random guy makes a plugin search app to help logic users and its been a hit for him. He is also going to do the "search track" function where you can type "brass" and it take you there. 

On the other hand Cubase is like the windows version of daws where it has way too many customizations and features. great for tweak heads and steep learning curves. so hopefully logic addresses just some of the most pressing features.


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## el-bo (Mar 20, 2022)

R10k said:


> I quite like how Jacob Collier talks about Logic. He started using it when he began his musical journey, and now knows it so well he hasn't contemplated switching to anything else. He knows what he wants to do and he figures out how to make Logic pull that off. The music for him is the focus, not the DAW.
> 
> Obviously he probably isn't on a deadline. If you have a job to do and Cubase lets you get it done faster or easier then... just use it. Don't worry about who else is using it.


If you Google "Organised chaos" you end up at Jacob's Logic walkthrough videos 

https://grahamstoney.com/music/how-a-real-musician-uses-the-logic-pro-digital-audio-workstation


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## Vik (Mar 20, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> If you exclusively use EXS / Sampler (like some people we know), you'd have had this feature for almost 20 years now!


It was actually possible to keep the samples in RAM for other users as well, for quite some time, but most people weren't aware of the ability to have Logic 10 and Logic 9 open at the same time, and use L9 as a Ve Pro. I hope that they, one day, reintroduce that option by launching an 'Instrument Hub' as a standalone app that would work the same way Ve Pro works (on the same computer), only with the differences that it would be so integrated with Logic that one almost wouldn't notice that it was there.

Btw, I know a guy who also transfers all his samples to Sampler, so there are at least two of you!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2022)

The Environment has been considered legacy for a long time. That is, the Environment interface - by definition everything in the Main window exists in the Environment.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 20, 2022)

...which is not to say that I don't use it, because I do!


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## R10k (Mar 20, 2022)

el-bo said:


> If you Google "Organised chaos" you end up at Jacob's Logic walkthrough videos
> 
> https://grahamstoney.com/music/how-a-real-musician-uses-the-logic-pro-digital-audio-workstation



Haha I bet... I've seen that video.


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## stigc56 (Mar 22, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> (I’ve recently been spending more time in Logic and loving a number of the workflow aspects vs Cubase.)


I thought you were moving to Studio One?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 22, 2022)

stigc56 said:


> I thought you were moving to Studio One?


Was I? No, I tried it - but far too many shortcomings and bugs compared to Logic and Cubase.


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## simac (Jun 3, 2022)

NOX said:


> Dewdman42 is indeed right and (I've just checked) 10.7.3_ does not_ fix environment problems that I've started noticing at 10.7.0. It is unusable and broken. I have an extensive environment set up in my orchestral template, I've worked "hard" a whole decade (!) to get it done but now I'm stuck at Logic 10.6.0 if I want it to work.
> 
> To give you an idea you can see below my main page, all the programming is behind. Basically each instrument of all four orchestral sections can have their individual tracks notes mapped to chords/scales while controlling for reverb expression,dynamics volume solo/mute articulations and various CC's. saved into presets that can be switched on the fly realtime. So its like composing orchestrating and mixing integrated. Right now the preset function is broken in 10.7.3. I'm sorry to say.
> 
> ...


That environment looks insane! What are all the tiny faders doing? Can I have a go? JK

I used to use in a lot in version 4...but then i got a Unitor 8 and that allowed me to do a lot of what I used to use it for...still used it a bit up to logic 9...then a few other bits came along (moog pedal with midi lfos) and stopped using it...haven't opened it since moving to X.


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