# Cheap but decent guitar and pedal(s)?



## Studio E (Oct 7, 2019)

Full disclosure: I'm not a guitarist, but I can play a little. I'm a "decent" bass player and mainly a keyboardist. I am about to start scoring my first feature film. I scored a 40 minute film earlier this year and ended up using quite a bit of guitar-based sample libraries from Heavyocity and a couple others I think. I really liked a lot of it, but it also has me thinking, for this next film, maybe I should just get a "decent" guitar that would tune well at Drop D and stay in tune, as well as a distortion pedal and start rolling my own riffs. The one problem I had with the libraries, as great as they sounded, was that I often imagined something that just wasn't there. It would be fun to be able to play-in the stuff myself, even if it's really simple stuff.

So I'd love to spend next to nothing, lol, but I will spend some money. I really would like to stay on the cheap though. My bass is an Ibanez and I love it. I was thinking of maybe going that route with an electric guitar as I know a few people who really love them for the price. Any ideas? Nothing is too cheap, as long as it stays in tune and will last 6 months while I score this film. 

Thanks!

Oh, and maybe a pedal that leans toward whatever really modern, tuned-down metal stuff sounds like today. Otherwise, I do have the full Amplitube package and Guitar Rig.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 7, 2019)

If you're just recording then it seems like getting a pedal might be unnecessary if have those plugins.


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## Studio E (Oct 7, 2019)

You may be completely correct. I just know that for instance, I really really like my Tech-21 VT-Bass pedal way more than my Ampeg models in software. Maybe the same applies to guitar pedals? I'm just asking from a humble perspective.


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## MartinH. (Oct 7, 2019)

Studio E said:


> Full disclosure: I'm not a guitarist, but I can play a little. I'm a "decent" bass player and mainly a keyboardist. I am about to start scoring my first feature film. I scored a 40 minute film earlier this year and ended up using quite a bit of guitar-based sample libraries from Heavyocity and a couple others I think. I really liked a lot of it, but it also has me thinking, for this next film, maybe I should just get a "decent" guitar that would tune well at Drop D and stay in tune, as well as a distortion pedal and start rolling my own riffs. The one problem I had with the libraries, as great as they sounded, was that I often imagined something that just wasn't there. It would be fun to be able to play-in the stuff myself, even if it's really simple stuff.
> 
> So I'd love to spend next to nothing, lol, but I will spend some money. I really would like to stay on the cheap though. My bass is an Ibanez and I love it. I was thinking of maybe going that route with an electric guitar as I know a few people who really love them for the price. Any ideas? Nothing is too cheap, as long as it stays in tune and will last 6 months while I score this film.
> 
> ...



Buy a used one, preferebly with ugly dents or scratches in visible but functionally unimportant areas. It'll be much cheaper than buying a new one that way. And preferably don't buy without testing it out in person. I would advise against buying it in an ugly color that you don't like just because it's cheap though. I had a red bass for a while but ultimately sold it again because it bothered me too much that it wasn't black. x]



Studio E said:


> You may be completely correct. I just know that for instance, I really really like my Tech-21 VT-Bass pedal way more than my Ampeg models in software. Maybe the same applies to guitar pedals? I'm just asking from a humble perspective.



Isn't flexibility more important though, especially on a composing gig? If you go with a pedal imho you should buy a DI box as well to record the clean DI signal too, just to be on the safe side.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 7, 2019)

Studio E said:


> You may be completely correct. I just know that for instance, I really really like my Tech-21 VT-Bass pedal way more than my Ampeg models in software. Maybe the same applies to guitar pedals? I'm just asking from a humble perspective.


I know very little about guitars in general but in my experience as a mixer, I've never had great success with putting amp plugins on DI guitars but guitar tracks that come in having been recorded with an amp generally sound pretty good. Maybe I'm just not good at using those plugins and don't know enough about dialing in a good guitar sound but I almost always prefer to just receive tracks that were recorded with an amp.


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## Studio E (Oct 7, 2019)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I know very little about guitars in general but in my experience as a mixer, I've never had great success with putting amp plugins on DI guitars but guitar tracks that come in having been recorded with an amp generally sound pretty good. Maybe I'm just not good at using those plugins and don't know enough about dialing in a good guitar sound but I almost always prefer to just receive tracks that were recorded with an amp.



I'm a mixer as well and I totally agree. I've made plenty of DI tracks work with amp sims, but really amps usually just sit WAY easier into the arrangement.


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## Studio E (Oct 7, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> Buy a used one, preferebly with ugly dents or scratches in visible but functionally unimportant areas. It'll be much cheaper than buying a new one that way. And preferably don't buy without testing it out in person. I would advise against buying it in an ugly color that you don't like just because it's cheap though. I had a red bass for a while but ultimately sold it again because it bothered me too much that it wasn't black. x]
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't flexibility more important though, especially on a composing gig? If you go with a pedal imho you should buy a DI box as well to record the clean DI signal too, just to be on the safe side.



I'm just thinking that I'd rather have one or two really decent tones than a bunch of mediocre ones.


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## MartinH. (Oct 7, 2019)

Studio E said:


> I'm just thinking that I'd rather have one or two really decent tones than a bunch of mediocre ones.



Then you might want an amp and a pedal instead of just a pedal?

I was just thinking "what if the director disagrees with your choice for the guitar tone and wants it changed after you've recorded it all?".


Edit: might find some recommendations for budget gear for metal here: 








SpectreSoundStudios


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 7, 2019)

Studio E said:


> So I'd love to spend next to nothing, lol, but I will spend some money. I really would like to stay on the cheap though. My bass is an Ibanez and I love it. I was thinking of maybe going that route with an electric guitar as I know a few people who really love them for the price. Any ideas?



Ibanez is rock solid quality, even at the lower price range. Almost can't go wrong with those. Taking a look at their RG line is a good idea. Also the S line.
Another brand that has really fine quality in their lower tier range is LTD by ESP.


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## Studio E (Oct 7, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Ibanez is rock solid quality, even at the lower price range. Almost can't go wrong with those. Taking a look at their RG line is a good idea. Also the S line.
> Another brand that has really fine quality in their lower tier range is LTD by ESP.


This is exactly what I was looking at.


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## wst3 (Oct 7, 2019)

two cents from a guitarist, although you may be short changed...

Buy something you can play before you pay. Used is a pretty good idea, but there are new guitars that are not expensive. I like Ibanez, I like Fender Squire, I like Epiphone, I like Yamaha - they all make good solid guitars that can serve you well. That said, there are some fantastic used guitars out there, but play them first.

Pedals do make a difference. While there are some fantastic plug-ins, but I love pedals, possibly because I can't program every detail and repeat them every time.

Amplifiers make a bigger difference. UA has done a fantastic job with their Marshall and Fender models, I like them a lot, but it still isn't quite the same.

My experience - or rather my personal tastes - a live track, even imperfect, adds so much to a track.

Go for it!!


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## Mike Fox (Oct 8, 2019)

Hey Eric! I'm a guitarist of over 20 years, so i feel like i might be able to offer some advice.

There are several ways to get a good recorded guitar tone, but it will not be easy, especially since it requires a lot of practice and patience. It can be a rabbit hole, depending on what exactly what you're trying to accomplish. The best advice i can offer is to keep using the same guitar software for your upcoming projects, until you decide how you want to record your guitar, and become good at that method.

The main recording options you have are...

1. Amp sim plugins
2. DI from modelers (Kemper, Axe fx, etc.)
3. Micing an amp

I can offer recommendations for gear, but first need to know your total budget. Thankfully, now is the absolute best time to be a guitarist. There's just so many options.


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## -Janne- (Oct 8, 2019)

Check out Neural DSP Archetype Nolly or Plini plug ins. Both are great and not that expensive .

-Janne


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## Zero&One (Oct 8, 2019)

If it's just for this project it would be rude not to mention the Yamaha Pacifica for price/reviews.
But agree with RG and LTD line. 
Worth noting a string gauge change and setup may be worth while if you are drop tuning.

Owned Mesa, Marshall and Kemper and I'd still gravitate to TH2 with decent IR's and bad ass bass part (you have covered) for most my drop tune metal ventures. Although nothing compares to real.


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## Studio E (Oct 8, 2019)

Hey everyone, thank you for all the replies. I'm not ignoring any of it. I have just not had a spare minute since posting. Just because it's really just an experiment for me, I'm really not wanting to spend much at all. If I have some really good turnouts with a some cheap gear and I can see doing more work in that way, I would definitely be interested in some higher-end stuff then. Thanks! I'll be checking out all the replies in detail soon.


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## MexicanBreed (Oct 10, 2019)

On the pedal front, you might want to take a look at Behringer. Kind of cheaply made, but good otherwise.


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## Primary Target (Jun 24, 2020)

-Janne- said:


> Check out Neural DSP Archetype Nolly or Plini plug ins. Both are great and not that expensive .
> 
> -Janne



If anyone is still looking for one of these, the Nolly plug-in is 50% off for a very limited time via the Neural DSP website - use code NOLLY50.

Offer was only for 36 hours and was emailed out so not actively advertised on the website, will end sometime tonight (approx 5 or 6am BST Thu 24th June)


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## easyrider (Jun 24, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I know very little about guitars in general but in my experience as a mixer, I've never had great success with putting amp plugins on DI guitars



Thats because you are not a guitar player... 



> guitar tracks that come in having been recorded with an amp generally sound pretty good. Maybe I'm just not good at using those plugins and don't know enough about dialing in a good guitar sound but I almost always prefer to just receive tracks that were recorded with an amp.



I've been playing guitar for over 30 years....I can assure you that if you received a guitar track with the guitar sim printed over just getting the DI then I would argue you wouldn't be able to tell if the the person sending you the printed file used a real amp or or sim if they knew what they were doing.


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## easyrider (Jun 24, 2020)

Studio E said:


> You may be completely correct. I just know that for instance, I really really like my Tech-21 VT-Bass pedal way more than my Ampeg models in software. Maybe the same applies to guitar pedals? I'm just asking from a humble perspective.



You have the Amplitube....The Fender amps are some of the best sims on the market....It all depends what sounds you are after....?

I have many real amps and the age old argument SIM v Real AMP is rearing its ugly head...Recording a real amp and Mic placement is key to a decent sound...I would argue that a newbie would get a better result using a sim....

Throwing more gear at things is not the solution. Try to get the sound you want with Amplitube first...or Guitar Rig...If you are struggling to get anything decent sounding you are probably doing it wrong...

As for Bass check out the Plugin Alliance Ampeg Bass Amps...They are phenomenal


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## SupremeFist (Jun 24, 2020)

Fender Squier range is very credible if you like that sort of thing. (I'm a Gibson guy.)

Line6 HX Stomp is an incredible DI box/collection of pedals/amp sims, and you can reamp to your heart's content in the DAW (especially if you get the discounted Helix Native plugin with it). I like pedals and amps but honestly this stuff now sounds better than I could mic an amp myself.


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## lux (Jun 24, 2020)

Squier Vintage Vibe Serie or Yamaha Pacifica are great values. If you are europe based I would also give a look at Thomann's Harley Benton brand, which offers a killer value/price ratio.


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## bbunker (Jun 24, 2020)

You're going to get 12,000 unique perspectives on this one. Here's mine:

The problem with guitars for recording purposes is that a number of the problems that you'll find aren't immediately obvious. One issue is in the type of bridge. Probably the most common bridge you'll find in a beginner instrument is a floating, usually 2-point Strat-style trem, which you'd expect on the many strat copies out there. You'll probably think "yeah, I'm not going to use the trem, so it'll stay in tune." Which may well be the case (it often isn't on cheaper instruments - especially if you plan on bending any strings) - but you have to remember that any increase in tension or downward pressure is going to change the pitch. Palm muting is effected through downward pressure, so keeping a strat-style instrument in tune while muting can be an exercise in damage-mitigation. There's a lot to be said for getting a hardtail instrument for both tuning and tone, and there are bends that are possible only really with a hardtail because of the tension change in a tremolo.

One rule-of-thought that tends to be true (until it isn't) is that a great instrument, well set-up is better than everything, while a cheap instrument with a good setup is better than a good guitar with a poor setup. But with bad setups, a bad guitar becomes atrocious. I'd totally second the Vintage Vibe recommendation if that fits your budget and what you're wanting from an instrument. Pacificas fill the bill as well - you're looking for an instrument known for consistency to stay out of that bad guitar+bad problems category. I love Harley Benton, but I don't know that I'd recommend it for a non-player - they're a stonking value, but I've had a few dogs from them. Thomann were always great for returns, but personally I'd steer clear for first-time guitar buyers. I've got a hardtail Ibanez RG that'd be perfect for your situation, and it costs something like $250US, so - can't go wrong there.

Judging by your post, you're going to want to go with Amp Sims. Sticking a (few) mic(s) in front of an amp is always going to sound (sometimes marginally?) better, but the "knowing what you're doing" is kind of a problem on both sides. I use the Helix plugin a lot, but the presets aren't great, and you can make some truly terrible tones out of it if you don't know how to dial in the amp that's simulated, or how it works with the mic and cab, or which amp model you really want. If you were to get something hardware, I'd probably go with a Kemper. It's going to sound better than most anything you're going to stick a mic in front of in a bedroom, and since you're getting the tone 'baked in' for the most part, you can't screw it up.

Bear in mind that this is a rabbit hole of epic proportions. First it's a hardtailed RG to do a few things, and before you know it you're debating the benefits of grabbing a modern overwound strat versus the 7 you already have....


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## Rex282 (Jun 24, 2020)

Studio E said:


> Full disclosure: I'm not a guitarist, but I can play a little. I'm a "decent" bass player and mainly a keyboardist. I am about to start scoring my first feature film......



I don’t know if anyone mentioned this yet so I will.You said you are not a guitarist but can play a little. player.That could mean a lot of things but it mostly sounds like not something you want to play on a film recording.If I am wrong and you are just being humble please disregard and I definitely do not mean it as a swipe just reality.

if you aren’t “REALLY” a guitarist that’s ok there are plenty of us that are guitarist that I would suggest hiring.We all need work so please share the love.My suggestion is unless you are serious about getting better than not a guitarist don’t buy a guitar, borrow one or get an inexpensive Craigslist, Reverb etc.etc guitar and play your ideas with no regard to the “amp”(except for your own personal taste and satisfaction)then hand the part off to a guitarist .Even some(a lot) simple parts are difficult to play with aplomb.

Unfortunately in my personal experience I found many guitarist that excel at”their thing” and not much else.A metal guitarist may have difficulty playing a swinging funk groove and vice versa even though they are both very 16th note centric.For some reason many non guitarist musicians think playing a distorted rock guitar is caveman easy however the fact is ..it ain’t.Johnny Ramone was playing the shit out of his parts it only sounds easy.

Yes if you aren’t a guitarist you can get down the gest of it however the difference between someone who knows how to play an amp is huge(in any style of music).Unfortunately it is not something quickly learned or taught and it is very easy to sound really bad(unmusical).So on that note of encouragement do you best and buy smart and toss a guitarist a bone if possible....we’re hungry.


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## spacepluk (Jun 24, 2020)

+1 to NeuralDSP Plini. It’s the best amp simulation I’ve come across. Super simple yet versatile, and it sounds and feels great. Check the free trial.

For cheap guitars I think after a proper setup they are all pretty much the same these days. Just get something that you like. 

If you care about resale value I would say Fender and Gibson usually hold their value better than others.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jun 24, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Thats because you are not a guitar player...


Definitely true but I think something is up since I can go through countless presets and not find anything I like while I get tracks with a mic haphazardly thrown in front of an amp that I can get to sound pretty good without too much work.


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## easyrider (Jun 24, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Definitely true but I think something is up since I can go through countless presets and not find anything I like while I get tracks with a mic haphazardly thrown in front of an amp that I can get to sound pretty good without too much work.



Sorry I’m not convinced....

What amp sims are you trying presets on ?


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## bbunker (Jun 24, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Definitely true but I think something is up since I can go through countless presets and not find anything I like while I get tracks with a mic haphazardly thrown in front of an amp that I can get to sound pretty good without too much work.



Just as a side note: unless the preset is "a small amp with a '57 in front of it" then it may very well be an apples and oranges deal. And what amp sims are you getting such bad results from?

I guess that's my way of saying: having been through a variety of "putting mics in front of amp" configurations, and a variety of "trying out amp sims" situations, yours is definitely not my experience.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jun 24, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Sorry I’m not convinced....
> 
> What amp sims are you trying presets on ?





bbunker said:


> Just as a side note: unless the preset is "a small amp with a '57 in front of it" then it may very well be an apples and oranges deal. And what amp sims are you getting such bad results from?
> 
> I guess that's my way of saying: having been through a variety of "putting mics in front of amp" configurations, and a variety of "trying out amp sims" situations, yours is definitely not my experience.



I've used guitar rig and the ones built in to Nuendo. I guess I also have the Slate one but I've never used it. It's not necessarily unusable but I find that I need to do a lot of tweaking in order to get something I like whereas I've found it to take much less work with recorded amps. It could likely have to do simply with the guitarist/band already having made a decision about what they like rather than me trying to find on my own what works for a particular situation. When I get something I already have certain confines I need to work in rather than endless possibilities.


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## MartinH. (Jun 24, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I've used guitar rig and the ones built in to Nuendo. I guess I also have the Slate one but I've never used it. It's not necessarily unusable but I find that I need to do a lot of tweaking in order to get something I like whereas I've found it to take much less work with recorded amps. It could likely have to do simply with the guitarist/band already having made a decision about what they like rather than me trying to find on my own what works for a particular situation. When I get something I already have certain confines I need to work in rather than endless possibilities.



For metal you could test a demo version of TSE x50 v2 or hunt down the free TSE x50 v1 + NadIR and some good free impulses. V2 comes with a ton of cab IRs. I have Guitar Rig too and I don't use it as often as even some free plugins like Emissary. You can get good sounds out of GR too of course, but personally I found it harder to get there than with the other things that I tried.


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## SupremeFist (Jun 24, 2020)

bbunker said:


> Judging by your post, you're going to want to go with Amp Sims. Sticking a (few) mic(s) in front of an amp is always going to sound (sometimes marginally?) better, but the "knowing what you're doing" is kind of a problem on both sides. I use the Helix plugin a lot, but the presets aren't great, and you can make some truly terrible tones out of it if you don't know how to dial in the amp that's simulated, or how it works with the mic and cab, or which amp model you really want. If you were to get something hardware, I'd probably go with a Kemper. It's going to sound better than most anything you're going to stick a mic in front of in a bedroom, and since you're getting the tone 'baked in' for the most part, you can't screw it up.
> ...



This is a good point: if you know how to dial in an amp and pedals, then the Helix family can sound amazing; if not, they can sound terrible (like a real amp and pedals!). But then a Kemper is probably $$$ for the OP looking for a cheap guitar...


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## doctoremmet (Jun 25, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Ibanez is rock solid quality, even at the lower price range. Almost can't go wrong with those. Taking a look at their RG line is a good idea. Also the S line.
> Another brand that has really fine quality in their lower tier range is LTD by ESP.


I was also gonna say: go Ibanez. This one is pretty affordable, downtuneable, and plays well:

https://www.ibanez.com/eu/products/detail/gsa60_2y_03.html
Maybe get a small little amp and a couple of 57s and just amp that for tracking?


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## doctoremmet (Jun 25, 2020)

lux said:


> Thomann's Harley Benton


I second this. They make a gorgeous Jaguar clone, for next to nothing. And it gets pretty nice reviews as well!


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## MartinH. (Jun 25, 2020)

@Studio E: Since this thread was from last year and was brought back up recently, did you end up buying anything?


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## lux (Jun 25, 2020)

oh no, I partecipated to an Ouija thread. Should check the date of the first post.


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## Studio E (Jun 25, 2020)

Hey guys, I really appreciate all the help. I have not bought a guitar, but may still. The project in particular, that this is for, has stalled temporarily, and I’ve been covered up with other things. Although I have totally, successfully used amp sims, I have also recorded lots of mic’d amps, and to me, the amps always sound better, assuming you have the flavor of amp you want. 
When I do record this guitar, the performance will probably not be a traditional performance at all, but more like noise-making, lol, but it’s gotta
Be the “right” noise, haha. 
Thanks again! I do currently have a strat I’m borrowing but it’s too nice and not mine, to do the type of experimentation I really want to do.


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