# Lass - i cant!!!



## greentuga (Sep 28, 2019)

Hi guys,
Definitely, I can’t get LASS sound good to my ears. Period!!!
I see a lot of tutorials, a lot of videos... o sketch some ostinatos and legatos, deal with modulation, volume, reverb... I can’t go write with this library. 
So, can you please give a little (giant) help to me?
(I use Logic Pro x and stock reverb with bricasti IR’s)


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## MA-Simon (Sep 28, 2019)

I bought it years ago, played with it, deceided it is not for my, then never touched it again. 
It's just sitting in my kontakt tab, unused. 

I got Spitfire Chamber Strings and Cinematic Studio Strings instead. A different world entirely.

Sorry for your loss...


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## Silence-is-Golden (Sep 28, 2019)

Just send you an invite to a pm with some useful instructions I received some years ago from hannes_f

If you follow them you’ll get there.

Enjoy


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## greentuga (Sep 28, 2019)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Just send you an invite to a pm with some useful instructions I received some years ago from hannes_f
> 
> If you follow them you’ll get there.
> 
> Enjoy



Thanks you very much. 
I will give a try and send/post the results, if I have good results


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## sinkd (Sep 28, 2019)

I love LASS. But it has to be mixed very specifically--I use separate ER and Tail impulses to do the trick. Not sure of the sound you are after, but PM me if you want more specifics.


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## Living Fossil (Sep 28, 2019)

greentuga said:


> Definitely, I can’t get LASS sound good to my ears. Period!!!



It would be easier to find out what you're struggling with if you would post some examples.


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## gsilbers (Sep 28, 2019)

greentuga said:


> Hi guys,
> Definitely, I can’t get LASS sound good to my ears. Period!!!
> I see a lot of tutorials, a lot of videos... o sketch some ostinatos and legatos, deal with modulation, volume, reverb... I can’t go write with this library.
> So, can you please give a little (giant) help to me?
> (I use Logic Pro x and stock reverb with bricasti IR’s)



same me, but what works is using it to double other libraries. spitfire/HS gold , etc. specially the short 1st chair or small section. adds some good upfront precense.


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## greentuga (Sep 28, 2019)

Living Fossil said:


> It would be easier to find out what you're struggling with if you would post some examples.


 
I will. 
Soon I can...


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## NYC Composer (Sep 28, 2019)

LASS has some of the best legato, agility, nice “dig” shorts and flexibility on the market, but the sound tends towards raw and edgy. The two best things to do for a smoother sound are to keep the mod wheel for the legatos and sustains pretty low (under 65, I believe) and to work with eq to notch some of the more strident frequencies out.


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## Henu (Sep 29, 2019)

Hah, I had a rare moment of quietness in the house yesterday and decided to tackle Lass down for good. My culprit wasn't the sound at all, but the goddamn ARC which I just cannot get to work no matter what.
The programming is excellent and it's easier to tame a raw sound nicer than give a boring synthpad-ish library some believable grit.

As a sidenote, I combined a divisi with SCS´s outriggers yesterday and think I just found my favourite combo ever. If you have SCS Pro, give it a try!


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## hawpri (Sep 29, 2019)

Henu said:


> Hah, I had a rare moment of quietness in the house yesterday and decided to tackle Lass down for good. My culprit wasn't the sound at all, but the goddamn ARC which I just cannot get to work no matter what.
> The programming is excellent and it's easier to tame a raw sound nicer than give a boring synthpad-ish library some believable grit.
> 
> As a sidenote, I combined a divisi with SCS´s outriggers yesterday and think I just found my favourite combo ever. If you have SCS Pro, give it a try!


It would be a great feature (maybe?), but I've never been able to get ARC to work properly and gave up on it. What a waste, but somebody out there must have it working for him/herself. Still, LASS has proven to be a great library. For keyswitching there's a free script from orange tree samples called ksrouter that worked out nicely for me.

Since ARC would have been limited/restricted to LASS, mixing it with other strings would have been difficult depending on the application or context. Learning how to mix and blend more dry sound with wet or in-position sound has been useful, though it's hard to know how well I've really fared since the vast majority of music I've written has been for personal enjoyment anyway.

I don't have SCS pro, but it must be a nice sound when layering the two libraries.


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## greentuga (Sep 29, 2019)

Henu said:


> Hah, I had a rare moment of quietness in the house yesterday and decided to tackle Lass down for good. My culprit wasn't the sound at all, but the goddamn ARC which I just cannot get to work no matter what.
> The programming is excellent and it's easier to tame a raw sound nicer than give a boring synthpad-ish library some believable grit.
> 
> As a sidenote, I combined a divisi with SCS´s outriggers yesterday and think I just found my favourite combo ever. If you have SCS Pro, give it a try!



For the ARC, I start with a multi, then change some setting to my taste. But, in the end, I tend to use the “full” instrument... :/


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## STec (Sep 29, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> LASS has some of the best legato, agility, nice “dig” shorts and flexibility on the market, but the sound tends towards raw and edgy. The two best things to do for a smoother sound are to keep the mod wheel for the legatos and sustains pretty low (under 65, I believe) and to work with eq to notch some of the more strident frequencies out.



This


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 29, 2019)

Henu said:


> Hah, I had a rare moment of quietness in the house yesterday and decided to tackle Lass down for good. My culprit wasn't the sound at all, but the goddamn ARC which I just cannot get to work no matter what.
> The programming is excellent and it's easier to tame a raw sound nicer than give a boring synthpad-ish library some believable grit.
> 
> As a sidenote, I combined a divisi with SCS´s outriggers yesterday and think I just found my favourite combo ever. If you have SCS Pro, give it a try!


The outriggers are like pixie dust to my ears. Love what they add.


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## Peter Williams (Sep 29, 2019)

I still love the sound of the Symphobia strings, but miss the legato of the newer libraries, so I sometimes layer the LASS Lite legato violins with Symphobia. It's a very rich sound that I enjoy. There are many similar combinations that you can use with older libraries that work as well, if in the right context. If you are a hobbyist on a budget, layering is a must. Maybe I can get CSS if they ever go on sale.


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## stevenson-again (Sep 29, 2019)

Well LASS is still my go to string library. It's the next best thing to an actual band I have ever used.

However - it can be pretty rough right out of the box.

You need an ER (their ER's are fantastic) a good dose of Eq - what you probably don't like is the upper mids, so pull them right out, and where ever it was recorded has some boominess in the lower mids so the violas and cellos _must_ be rolled off. I don't bother with ARC .... too hard to make work in a template.

I pretty much don't use a lot of the bass. Not keen on the way LASS was recorded but the programming is the best - the gold standard IMO - for how to use lib.

You also should have a good algorithmic reverb - these days they are a dime a dozen. Valhalla works well.

This track, where I am channeling my Mancini/Barry bastard love child, gives a good idea of how flexible it is....remember I've gone for that sound world (so it's syrupy and wet) and it was a cinch to get the vibe of swooping strings. And it's all LASS:



...check out the strings the smokey sax solo.....I think they sound pretty on point.


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## brenneisen (Sep 29, 2019)

always loved LASS here:


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## NYC Composer (Sep 29, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> Well LASS is still my go to string library. It's the next best thing to an actual band I have ever used.
> 
> However - it can be pretty rough right out of the box.
> 
> ...



Nice track.

Yep, agree-I don’t bother with ARCC personally. I use Valhalla for the lushness necessary, and I love the agility/flexibility/connectivity of LASS. it’s NOT a “sounds fantastic out of the box” library, but make friends with it sound wise and you can do really good work with it. 

It’s also great for a very direct, right in the room sound.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 29, 2019)

I don't understand why some people struggle so much with it.
I use ARC 2.5
Load ARC as a multi FIRST, then load the sections that you need.
Setup the proper instrument placement assignment, chose the space you like best, then EQ and add a reverb (optional) in your DAW and you are done.
Still one of my favorite legato out there, and it's not lagging....


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## greentuga (Sep 29, 2019)

The main question is how do you use lass and how do you go for eq and reverb er?
I see a lot of videos from people that “explain everything” but at the end... they don’t explain nothing. 
I don’t mean like use an eq on violin I with x dB on yHz or something like that, but the main principles to use LASS. 
I see a lot of people talk in detail about all library’s but not LASS, and ask myself a lot of Times why I can’t find something like that about this library...???
Even here, I see answers saying “I use, it’s fantastic, I don’t care ARC, i can’t use ARC, I use arc...” but like I said, how do you make sound write for you, guys?
Can you post screenshots, videos, links???
I know the principles of a send, a bus, a sum (Logic) a folder... a group... soon I’m on my Logic template, I will post here some pictures, do you can (visually) critic my template. I have a bid for ali individual sum like legato, spiccato, staccato and so one


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 29, 2019)

why don't you post some audio examples instead?
Screenshots won't do it.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 29, 2019)

greentuga said:


> The main question is how do you use lass and how do you go for eq and reverb er?
> I see a lot of videos from people that “explain everything” but at the end... they don’t explain nothing.
> I don’t mean like use an eq on violin I with x dB on yHz or something like that, but the main principles to use LASS.
> I see a lot of people talk in detail about all library’s but not LASS, and ask myself a lot of Times why I can’t find something like that about this library...???
> ...


Have you tried the multis named "ARC Template Starters"? Each one loads most necessary articulations for violins 1 and 2, violas, celli and basses, keyswitched. It's the easiest way to start.


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 29, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> Well LASS is still my go to string library. It's the next best thing to an actual band I have ever used.
> 
> However - it can be pretty rough right out of the box.
> 
> ...



Fantastic! I love it. Very convincing demo of what LASS can actually do (I don't have it but listening to this makes me want to get it).

Can I ask what you used for the Sax and Trumpet/Flugel? You nailed them too.

Visions of Sellers/Schell/Sommer/Niven/Hepburn/Peppard floating through my head. Wonderful.


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## borisb2 (Sep 30, 2019)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Still one of my favorite legato out there


question about the legato: in LASS I disabled Glissando and only have Portamento and Legato enabled based on velocity. But when playing notes I can only hear Portamento when its triggered. Triggering Legato I can see in the UI that it got triggered with what interval - but I dont hear any transition or its so subtle that it got lost. I hear more or less 2 notes connected (like playing monophon) - but no "audible" finger-transition .. was that on purpose? - dont use LASS too often these days but that always confused me


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## damstraversaz (Sep 30, 2019)

I'm using a lot LASS, as I really like the playablity of this library. But I'm agree it can sound a little harsh for high frequency. I don't remerber where I read this tip on this forum , it really works for me and I'm always do it :

You can use Proximity with the vocal preset for a more balanced sound and ajust the main fader as you like. It really change a lot, at least for me. Here is the link ( this is a free vst)

https://www.tokyodawn.net/proximity/


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## stevenson-again (Sep 30, 2019)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Fantastic! I love it. Very convincing demo of what LASS can actually do (I don't have it but listening to this makes me want to get it).
> 
> Can I ask what you used for the Sax and Trumpet/Flugel? You nailed them too.
> 
> Visions of Sellers/Schell/Sommer/Niven/Hepburn/Peppard floating through my head. Wonderful.



Ta...exactly. The album was a lot of fun to write. The Sax is me (I'm a clarinet player) - was only going to be temporary but I did alright enough to not bother a player....and actually the flugelhorn from Sample Modelling sounds nearly exactly as good as the player I used (also real). But the strings are all LASS and with good mixing they can sound absolutely amazing....which was my point really.

I KNOW they can sound rough out of the box, but once you figure out how to mix them they sound great, and they are so so usable.

My main template for orchestral writing is full of combinations of things. I have a lot spitfire in there (nearly all the basses are spitfire) and I mix and match. I use program changes and some patches have both spitfire LASS and others are one or the other - all instant. I mostly use spitfire spiccs because they are just so good. But the LASS spiccs and other shorts are great too esp the cellos. Also LASS is generally tighter and more even.

Mixing some LASS into Spitfire legatos works really well too. Set LASS back a bit but you get a really nice direction in the line. Overall point - they CAN sound great and when they do they are incredibly easy to make sound effective.


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## Batrawi (Sep 30, 2019)

borisb2 said:


> question about the legato: in LASS I disabled Glissando and only have Portamento and Legato enabled based on velocity. But when playing notes I can only hear Portamento when its triggered. Triggering Legato I can see in the UI that it got triggered with what interval - but I dont hear any transition or its so subtle that it got lost. I hear more or less 2 notes connected (like playing monophon) - but no "audible" finger-transition .. was that on purpose? - dont use LASS too often these days but that always confused me


If LASS legato is too subtle for your taste and you want to hear more of the finger transition then try this and thank me later🙂 (actually credit goes to @Pixelpoet1985 )





Edit "legato transition" speed in Kontakt?


Is there a way to edit the speed of a true legato transition under the hood within Kontakt? If yes, would appreciate if you can direct me to a step-by-step reference as I'm not so knowledgeable with Kontakt script/editing Thanks




vi-control.net


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## WhiteNoiz (Sep 30, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> But the LASS spiccs and other shorts are great too esp the cellos.



You can "Air-ize" the shorts with (stereo) delay/pre-delay/reverb (and in general)... You get a nice bounciness that's very controllable due to how dry the source is (this one's barely programmed with reverb on the master, not sections, but with a few separate delays and EQ). It takes some time to mix but it's very customisable.

Also, everyone seems to always forget the Aleatoric patches which are sexy as fuck.

You can also layer something like the KH strings for the molto vib, to add thickness/movement etc. Here's the previous with some help in the violins and a low piano/tuba layer:








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I feel that for some reason it goes really well with the 2C B2 (reverb). Just let it melt your cpu. (You can probably go a bit over the top with any reverb/fx really, preferably a thick one)

Experiment; it can go in many directions.

And get a reference track... (I don't see any examples)


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## stevenson-again (Sep 30, 2019)

> Also, everyone seems to always forget the Aleatoric patches which are sexy as fuck.



Not me - I love them. I have hardware controllers permanently patched to cc111 and 83 just for those patches. Frikkin brilliant they are.


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 30, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> Ta...exactly. The album was a lot of fun to write. The Sax is me (I'm a clarinet player) - was only going to be temporary but I did alright enough to not bother a player....and actually the flugelhorn from Sample Modelling sounds nearly exactly as good as the player I used (also real). But the strings are all LASS and with good mixing they can sound absolutely amazing....which was my point really.
> 
> I KNOW they can sound rough out of the box, but once you figure out how to mix them they sound great, and they are so so usable.
> 
> ...


Thank you. And I guess that’s why they sound so real (flugel and sax) because they are. Samples still can’t quite nail those sounds or maybe more the style you played. I want to call it languid lounge and it’s great.


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## stevenson-again (Oct 1, 2019)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Thank you. And I guess that’s why they sound so real (flugel and sax) because they are. Samples still can’t quite nail those sounds or maybe more the style you played. I want to call it languid lounge and it’s great.



I should dig up the flugelhorn mockup for you...seriously really really close....I nearly didn't bother with a player. I agree - be pretty hard to pull off the sax played like that.


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## José Herring (Oct 1, 2019)

Lass you can. Believe in yourself.


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## Scalms (Oct 1, 2019)

I had similar issues with LASS. Bought it, almost immediately regretted it. I then tried a bunch of suggestions on this forum (play with EQ, keep dynamics low, etc). I bought FAbfilter Pro-Q and Pro-R immediately after to "save" LASS, and you know what, I still couldn't get it right! I kept getting it a little bit better each time, with each thing I tried. It wasn't until I bought EW Spaces II that it really came alive! For some reason, the combination with FABfilter Pro-R did not work well with my ears, too harsh and metallic (and I love Pro-R), but combining with Spaces II was all it took to bring out the warmth, (and also worked well with 7th heaven demo I believe). My suggestion is get a good reverb and let it do the work for you to smooth out some of those harsher frequencies. My last remaining LASS issue is with the short cellos. They sound to me like they were recorded in a tin can and no amount of reverb or processing can tweak that sound from my ears.


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## borisb2 (Oct 1, 2019)

Batrawi said:


> If LASS legato is too subtle for your taste and you want to hear more of the finger transition then try this and thank me later🙂 (actually credit goes to @Pixelpoet1985 )
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks for that .. did the tweak for violins 1 and celli .. really did make a difference - but then cubase crashed big time  .. have to do it again


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## robgb (Oct 1, 2019)

Since LASS is bone dry, the first thing you need to do is add a bit of room sound to it by using a room reverb or even a delay to give it a little distance and not be so up front. Once you've accomplished that, use another reverb on the send to give it those lush concert hall tails you're probably looking for. LASS sounds very raw out of the box, but some time and patience can make it sound superb.


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## stevenson-again (Oct 2, 2019)

A lass eq curve I use is in this image, but you can be much braver attenuating the upper mid freqs. Try it - you'll be surprised at how much of a difference it can make. You need to apply that AND quite a lot of low end roll off on the violas and to an extent the cellos as well.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 2, 2019)

Nowhere near the effort by Mr.Stevenson, this is a more chamber-y piece of mine, romantic, LASS and harp only.

My eq efforts are never scientific, I just grab a bunch of knobs and start twisting ‘em 







A Love that Lasts « LJN Music and Sound







www.ljnmusicandsound.com


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## stevenson-again (Oct 2, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Nowhere near the effort by Mr.Stevenson, this is a more chamber-y piece of mine, romantic, LASS and harp only.
> 
> My eq efforts are never scientific, I just grab a bunch of knobs and start twisting ‘em
> 
> ...



It's never-the-less gorgeous. It's really about how the line is incredibly clear with LASS - really good transitions.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 2, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> It's never-the-less gorgeous. It's really about how the line is incredibly clear with LASS - really good transitions.


Thanks. That clarity and agility (along with the MANY options) are what make LASS stand out to this day.


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## greentuga (Oct 2, 2019)

One thing I noticed is that using legato "full" patches, to have divisi you need to load Multi, otherwise you only have "one voice" ...

PS. I’m sketching a cover to post here soon I can. (I have children  )


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## yellowtone (Oct 10, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> Well LASS is still my go to string library. It's the next best thing to an actual band I have ever used.
> 
> However - it can be pretty rough right out of the box.
> 
> ...



This is sick. Really cool stuff, listening to your other Classic Film Score Jazz tracks now on SoundCloud. Is this all LASS strings? Objectively speaking, could you create a similar sound with VSL or another library? I’m interested in a similar Mancini 1960’s Mr Lucky Goes Latin sound, and this is the closest I’ve heard so far.


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## stevenson-again (Oct 10, 2019)

yellowtone said:


> This is sick. Really cool stuff, listening to your other Classic Film Score Jazz tracks now on SoundCloud. Is this all LASS strings? Objectively speaking, could you create a similar sound with VSL or another library? I’m interested in a similar Mancini 1960’s Mr Lucky Goes Latin sound, and this is the closest I’ve heard so far.



Cheers and yeah it's all LASS except the basses.

Hard to say whether another lib could do it. I have a few but for this sort of expressivity it's hard to go past LASS. I often been LASS with other libs, but not for this album - LASS really gets a working over. The Auto Arranger is really amazing for divisi...honestly you get such convincing part writing from that. But....it remains too be said....the OP is right...she does not impress right out of the box.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 10, 2019)

You should never say things like "lass - I can't!"


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## yellowtone (Oct 10, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> Cheers and yeah it's all LASS except the basses.
> 
> Hard to say whether another lib could do it. I have a few but for this sort of expressivity it's hard to go past LASS. I often been LASS with other libs, but not for this album - LASS really gets a working over. The Auto Arranger is really amazing for divisi...honestly you get such convincing part writing from that. But....it remains too be said....the OP is right...she does not impress right out of the box.



this is my concern. If I could get VSL Dimension to sound similar, even if required to layer with a larger string section, I’m more inclined to go that route vs. fighting with LASS as I’m not well versed in eq/reverb/etc. I will think about this more... my first true string orchestra will be BBCSO and I’m trying to decide on a chamber sized string group to compliment it, likely Dimension. Then, to get this 60’s sound I will try to coax it from my existing libraries but if not, maybe I’ll have to get LASS. Btw, LASS2.5 is $599 right now, is that a good price or will it also be that price, or cheaper likely during Black Friday or holidays?


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## greentuga (Oct 10, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> Cheers and yeah it's all LASS except the basses.
> 
> Hard to say whether another lib could do it. I have a few but for this sort of expressivity it's hard to go past LASS. I often been LASS with other libs, but not for this album - LASS really gets a working over. The Auto Arranger is really amazing for divisi...honestly you get such convincing part writing from that. But....it remains too be said....the OP is right...she does not impress right out of the box.




do you use any “color & verb” or just a multi with dry samples? 
since the first time, I tend to find an ER (bricasti downloaded) and then apply a tail. Of course, with an eq...


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## stevenson-again (Oct 11, 2019)

yellowtone said:


> this is my concern. If I could get VSL Dimension to sound similar, even if required to layer with a larger string section, I’m more inclined to go that route vs. fighting with LASS as I’m not well versed in eq/reverb/etc. I will think about this more... my first true string orchestra will be BBCSO and I’m trying to decide on a chamber sized string group to compliment it, likely Dimension. Then, to get this 60’s sound I will try to coax it from my existing libraries but if not, maybe I’ll have to get LASS. Btw, LASS2.5 is $599 right now, is that a good price or will it also be that price, or cheaper likely during Black Friday or holidays?



Yeah well that's ton cheaper than what I bought it for. There is a staging thing you need to do to make it sound right and I think ARC was a system to tackle that criticism or problem for those who didn't want to get their hands dirty trying to make them sound nice.

I posted a graphic of the eq you need and you can be quite brutal with eq with LASS. you need to roll off the lower freqs on the violas, take out a bit of boominess in the cellos, roll off the high mids on the violins. You *must* use an IR for early reflections. The LASS ones are superb. You need a good algorithmic reverb...Chroma in logic is top notch and valhalla isn't bad - it's what I use.

Then keep the cc1 levels pretty low.

LASS can sound super super lush, esp in certian contexts. But the main reason I use it is really expressive and very flexible. It's very easy to get clear lines. You can control port speed, AND the gliss speeds...the aleatoric patches rock. I mostly use the full patches but if you dive into the divisi you can get some desperately lush stuff out it.

I really don't know dimension strings that well to say whether it would do the job. But - yeah LASS will definitely do it. I would say too that LASS blends really well with other libs. So mix in some LASS chairs set back in the mix to "sweeten" Mural or Albion - you can even use the same programming. Sound frikken brill.


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## yellowtone (Oct 11, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> Yeah well that's ton cheaper than what I bought it for. There is a staging thing you need to do to make it sound right and I think ARC was a system to tackle that criticism or problem for those who didn't want to get their hands dirty trying to make them sound nice.
> 
> I posted a graphic of the eq you need and you can be quite brutal with eq with LASS. you need to roll off the lower freqs on the violas, take out a bit of boominess in the cellos, roll off the high mids on the violins. You *must* use an IR for early reflections. The LASS ones are superb. You need a good algorithmic reverb...Chroma in logic is top notch and valhalla isn't bad - it's what I use.
> 
> ...



Thanks @stevenson-again, I saw the eq graphic which is helpful, and thank you for the tips on the reverbs, eq's, etc. I'm going to need to take a few hours and just listen to back to back demos and other tracks I can find for LASS and Dimension Strings, try to create a clear side by side comparison of the different functionalities, and see if I can make a clear judgement. I wasn't aware that LASS allows control over the port/gliss speeds for example, which I assume by your comment makes a significant difference in expression (which also makes sense). Cheers!


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## JohnMarkPainter (Oct 19, 2019)

I think LASS sounds great.
I just upgraded to the Full from Lite.

First thing I did was TURN OFF THE EQ in all the presets.


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## greentuga (Oct 20, 2019)

JohnMarkPainter said:


> I think LASS sounds great.
> I just upgraded to the Full from Lite.
> 
> First thing I did was TURN OFF THE EQ in all the presets.



Ok. You turn off the eq and then... 

Honestly, I load the full patches for a long time, but I don’t like this. 
So, I star load arc and build my own patches with section a,b,c and sometimes the FC. The n, I start loading an IR with space design in Logic. Usually with bricasti or others free from internet. 
After that, try to shape with eq and a little compression. 
But... never satisfied with the result.
Possibly because I tend to be soft with the parameters...


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## JohnMarkPainter (Oct 20, 2019)

greentuga said:


> Ok. You turn off the eq and then...
> 
> Honestly, I load the full patches for a long time, but I don’t like this.
> So, I star load arc and build my own patches with section a,b,c and sometimes the FC. The n, I start loading an IR with space design in Logic. Usually with bricasti or others free from internet.
> ...


It depends on WHAT ELSE is being played around it.

I have a good bit of experience recording orchestra but mostly strings and horns for rock/pop/alternative music.
A very common mistake is getting a sound that you like when it is SOLOED.
This rarely leads to good sound in a mix.

On LASS, I am experimenting with the built in IR.
I think I like them.

After IR, it depends on the genre.
I use Plate Reverbs, Echo Chambers, Hall Convolution reverbs....just depends.

When you are experimenting with EQ:
Set your "Q" very narrow.
Boost drastically and sweep the frequencies to find the most active/ugly frequencies.
With strings, there is usually a spot where bow noise sits, honky/nasal midrange, and then low midrange mud.

CUT before boosting anything. Cutting the frequencies yo udon't like, leaves the other frequencies relatively louder.


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## greentuga (Oct 20, 2019)

JohnMarkPainter said:


> It depends on WHAT ELSE is being played around it.
> 
> I have a good bit of experience recording orchestra but mostly strings and horns for rock/pop/alternative music.
> A very common mistake is getting a sound that you like when it is SOLOED.
> ...



that’s exactly what I do. 
I guess I have a dumb ears


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## Zedcars (Nov 24, 2019)

I was about to pull the trigger on LASS as they have a good deal on for Black Friday. But then I read this thread and was like...no library should require this much tweaking to make it sound good. Why can’t AudioBro address these shortcomings? They must know about them.

Do you think there might be a version 3 around the corner that will make this easier to use? I bought MSB and really like the sound and the control options. I think I’ll leave this for now and return if there’s a major update.

I enjoyed the demos posted here, but don’t think I’m skilled enough to sculpt the sound to being usable.


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## muk (Nov 24, 2019)

Zedcars said:


> no library should require this much tweaking to make it sound good. Why can’t AudioBro address these shortcomings? They must know about them.



They do. The Stage & Color tool was introduced because of this and was intended to solve the issue.



Zedcars said:


> Do you think there might be a version 3 around the corner that will make this easier to use?



It will take some time still before version 3 will be released, according to this info:






LASS 3 - will there be all new samples?


Any updates/rumors on when LASS 3 will be released?




vi-control.net





In Audiobro's opinion version 3 will be easier to use. That comment probably refers to the programming of the library though, not necessarily the sound. I would expect LASS 3 to be simpler to set up than their current ARC system. Whether it will be easier to mix, that's an open question.



Zedcars said:


> I think I’ll leave this for now and return if there’s a major update.



If I am not mistaken Audiobro posted that there will be a significant discount on the upgrade from LASS 2.5 to LASS 3. They used the dreaded word 'no-brainer' to describe the upgrade-price. Again, what that means is anyones guess.


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## clisma (Nov 24, 2019)

It means it will be a very sizable discount for current owners of 2.5, because Andrew is a class act. The upgrade to 2 way back was something like a mere $129. Even if it doubles that figure for this update, the new content neatly packaged into their supreme new engine will be well worth it.

I recently reopened LASS to test out some patches and it still holds its own quite well; that’s before factoring in the divisi, Auto arranger and shorts sequencer (its name escapes me ATM). Just an overall very complete and pretty flexible package. 

The ”color” part of the stage and color I find quite useful for imparting a general sound, then chip away with EQ at whatever frequencies bother you.

And finally, LASS pairs very well with single/few live strings recorded on top if you are so inclined.


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## Noeticus (Nov 24, 2019)

What does ER mean in some of this threads comments?


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## zAr2 (Nov 24, 2019)

Reverb Early Reflections.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Nov 24, 2019)

Zedcars said:


> I was about to pull the trigger on LASS as they have a good deal on for Black Friday. But then I read this thread and was like...no library should require this much tweaking to make it sound good. Why can’t AudioBro address these shortcomings? They must know about them.
> 
> Do you think there might be a version 3 around the corner that will make this easier to use? I bought MSB and really like the sound and the control options. I think I’ll leave this for now and return if there’s a major update.
> 
> I enjoyed the demos posted here, but don’t think I’m skilled enough to sculpt the sound to being usable.



It doesn't take much work.
You set sections up initially, with all parameters to your liking, save it as a preset and you are set. It's not rocket science.

Also, LASS 3 is in development, using the same engine that Audiobro created for Genesis and MSB


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## David Enos (Dec 19, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> A lass eq curve I use is in this image, but you can be much braver attenuating the upper mid freqs. Try it - you'll be surprised at how much of a difference it can make. You need to apply that AND quite a lot of low end roll off on the violas and to an extent the cellos as well.



Am SOOO glad you posted this Stevenson. Your piece is the most convincing piece I've heard so far using LASS - it has the smoothness you hear in an actual string recording. Is this the EQ you used for the Mancini/Barry bastard love child piece? And which instrument is it on? The vlns, vlas, vcls, etc? Or across the entire string buss? 

Incidentally, one of the reasons I bought LASS was because of the tone of the basses, particularly the shorts. And I am a bassist by trade. I have been able to get a quasi-Batman sound with them similar to the Zimmer Batman sound. To each his own I guess...I WILL say that it's dissappointing there is no legato transitions. I may wind up layering it with 8Dio's basses. 

Thank you for so graciously sharing your EQ settings and i look forward to your response. I've been wanting to ask you for a month but just haven't gotten around to it


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## stevenson-again (Dec 20, 2019)

Oh you're very kind, but actually I don't use the LASS basses at all! That said, it's not that I wouldn't. I just think the Spitfire basses are better.

I use that eq across the whole "bus" as you put it, but I also have some of the individual sections eq'd somewhat...particularly the violas, which can sound utterly amazing or completely dreadful depending on whether you do or not.


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## stevenson-again (Dec 20, 2019)

Zedcars said:


> I was about to pull the trigger on LASS as they have a good deal on for Black Friday. But then I read this thread and was like...no library should require this much tweaking to make it sound good. Why can’t AudioBro address these shortcomings? They must know about them.
> 
> Do you think there might be a version 3 around the corner that will make this easier to use? I bought MSB and really like the sound and the control options. I think I’ll leave this for now and return if there’s a major update.
> 
> I enjoyed the demos posted here, but don’t think I’m skilled enough to sculpt the sound to being usable.



They do know about these "shortcomings" and they have addressed them. That's what the A.R.C system is about and it's fantastic if it suits your workflow.

LASS does take some skill to use and make sound good. A good way of thinking about its relative strengths say in comparison to Spitfire (my other go to library) is LASS is about how a string ensemble WORKS and Spitfire is about how it SOUNDS. So you an dial up a Spitfire patch and it will sound exactly how a expertly recorded patch should sound, but LASS responds like a real band, often with almost the same precision and clarity.

Point here is, they have definitely addressed the "sound out of the box" thing a lot of people want with their ARC system.


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## David Enos (Dec 28, 2019)

stevenson-again said:


> Oh you're very kind, but actually I don't use the LASS basses at all! That said, it's not that I wouldn't. I just think the Spitfire basses are better.
> 
> I use that eq across the whole "bus" as you put it, but I also have some of the individual sections eq'd somewhat...particularly the violas, which can sound utterly amazing or completely dreadful depending on whether you do or not.



Thank you for the tips! I will try these


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## Muzicpro (Jan 8, 2020)

The ARC with key switching along with Logic’s Articulation switcher was the hot ticket for me to get things working smoothly. I also really like the the different colors and verbs they’ve set up. You can easily get a very lush sound or a darker more brooding sound. Audiobro has tutorials up on how to set it up.


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## cug (Jan 9, 2020)

greentuga said:


> So, can you please give a little (giant) help to me?
> (I use Logic Pro x and stock reverb with bricasti IR’s)


I have been mostly using dry string libraries from VSL and LASS for a few years. I have a strings bus in my Logic template for VSL and LASS. The channel strip has an EQ, an instance of Brainworx bx_refinement and a tape warming plug-in, in that order. The tape warming plug-in is usually disabled unless I want to really transform the tone for something special. 

I arrived at the EQ setting using the match EQ feature of Logic. I started with a mock-up of about a minute of Serenade for Strings by Tchaikovsky. Then I dropped in a WAV file with a recording I liked of the same piece into Logic. After generally matching the levels, I did the match EQ process and saved the EQ curve that made my mock-up surprisingly close in tone to the real orchestra. It wasn't perfect because there are many factors other than the frequency curve but it was a definite improvement. The EQ curve you see below is a much simplified version of what I got from Match EQ. 

The music I used was the section that starts around 13:15 in this video: 


This is not the performance I used for my match EQ, just showing you what music I selected for EQ matching purposes. You should do this yourself and pick an orchestra performance that you want to emulate in your own mock-ups with a specific library. 

Of course, it would be better to do this for each string section individually and maybe match EQ with different orchestras for different sounds / genres. Like beautiful strings vs. edgy suspense-thriller, etc. And mutes vs. not muted. Sigh, there are only so many hours in the day... 

With bx_refinement, I just tried some settings until I found something that takes the edge off. It kind of warms up the tone in a way that lets me do less EQ boosting and cutting. 

After I have the tone, I go for the ambience setting. As many others have mentioned, a good practice is to use one EQ to put the dry library on a recording stage. Then put all that in a second reverb with longer tails based on your production needs. 

I use the Scoring Stage 2.0s IR in Space Designer for the first room when I'm not using MIR. With MIR, I have the Vienna Konzerthaus set and I use the Newer Hall from that collection - it seems to approximate a scoring stage in length. If I were getting MIR today, I'd probably get the Synchron Stage set but I got mine before that came out. 

Then for the sweetening reverb I use any of the following: Space Designer with a Bricasti or Lexicon IR (a plate about 3 seconds). Vienna MIRacle. I've also been experimenting lately with the Lexicon MPX reverb plug-in (it sounds really nice and it was really cheap on sale). I'm interested in trying the Valhala reverbs and others that people have mentioned here (Seventh Heaven). 

Below are my bx_refinement and EQ settings. (Like I said, I'm sure I could improve on this with more work and this is just a generic default set that's in my template. I'd love to hear what other people are doing to match the tone of a string library with a favorite recording. Anyone using IRs for that purpose?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 9, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> Thanks. That clarity and agility (along with the MANY options) are what make LASS stand out to this day.



Old thread, but I hear detail with LASS more than harshness - although everything people have said about velocity and EQ is true.

A Love That Lassts... oy.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 9, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Old thread, but I hear detail with LASS more than harshness - although everything people have said about velocity and EQ is true.
> 
> A Love That Lassts... oy.


Heh.


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## Daniel (Jan 10, 2020)

Lass is good to arrangement with drum.


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## duringtheafter (Aug 28, 2020)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Just send you an invite to a pm with some useful instructions I received some years ago from hannes_f
> 
> If you follow them you’ll get there.
> 
> Enjoy


Know this is an older post I'm replying to, but I'd also love to see those instructions if it can help me tame LASS!


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## muziksculp (Aug 28, 2020)

Looking forward to an easier to use, and better sounding LASS 3 release. Hopefully soon.


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## marclawsonmusic (Aug 28, 2020)

duringtheafter said:


> Know this is an older post I'm replying to, but I'd also love to see those instructions if it can help me tame LASS!



I agree... I wonder if you can post the instructions on this thread? I am happy with LASS (when I use it), but I am always keen to learn more to get more out of it.

Great thread!


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## ansthenia (Aug 28, 2020)

If any LASS owners are unhappy with the sound and haven't heard of this, maybe look into it. I don't own them myself so I can't vouch for them:









Hollywood Sound Timbral Impulse: The LASS Edition


Timbral Impulses are designed specifically to sweeten and add warmth to all of the LA Scoring String (LASS) libraries. This new technology creates higher precision using the power of impulse...



www.numericalsound.com


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## mojamusic (Aug 28, 2020)

ansthenia said:


> If any LASS owners are unhappy with the sound and haven't heard of this, maybe look into it. I don't own them myself so I can't vouch for them:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I use LASS and love it but I'm always open for more resources. Thanks


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## mojamusic (Aug 28, 2020)

ansthenia said:


> If any LASS owners are unhappy with the sound and haven't heard of this, maybe look into it. I don't own them myself so I can't vouch for them:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mike Verta's demo sounds AMAZING!!!!


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## chimuelo (Aug 29, 2020)

Heard a guy use LASS live once and floored me. 
He pre recorded all keyswitching and played over the top which was impressive.

I’m not an Orchestral Composer but for Pop/Disco LASS is perfect for my needs since it’s mixed in with Pianos and CHHorns.

Strings always find their way to the top of a mix LASS being no exception.
Using multiple bi directionally controlled MIDI CC#’s on ADSR/AD the dynamics are easy to control once your Attack is set properly.

It gets that old MJackson Billie Jean/Rock With Me sound really well.
I even use the 16bit Lite version when it’s a Pop/Disco.

Soundtrack style tunes I go with Full/FC and Sord for those great old school sounds like Nat King Cole.

Thanks Again Andrew & Sebastia.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 29, 2020)

ansthenia said:


> If any LASS owners are unhappy with the sound and haven't heard of this, maybe look into it. I don't own them myself so I can't vouch for them:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow so expensive!

Hoping for LASS 3 soon. LASS is probably my most expensive regret - never use it.


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## muk (Aug 29, 2020)

ansthenia said:


> If any LASS owners are unhappy with the sound and haven't heard of this, maybe look into it. I don't own them myself so I can't vouch for them:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is it just me or do these examples sound worse than the original? The original is harsh, sometimes even shrill. But the ones with the TIs applied lack definition and still sound harsh. It sounds like the TIs smear the transients, and change the tone. But not in a favorable direction. At least not to my ears. If I was trying to tame LASS I definitely would not be using these TIs.


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## duringtheafter (Aug 29, 2020)

muk said:


> Is it just me or do these examples sound worse than the original? The original is harsh, sometimes even shrill. But the ones with the TIs applied lack definition and still sound harsh. It sounds like the TIs smear the transients, and change the tone. But not in a favorable direction. At least not to my ears. If I was trying to tame LASS I definitely would not be using these TIs.


Agreed. I think I could muddy the sound exactly like this with some random drawing of curves... Definitely not worth the $$$ (to my ears, anyway).


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## gsilbers (Aug 29, 2020)

a long time ago, some poeple had a similar issues with dry samples and used the altiverb Todd AO early reflection trick






TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-)


TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) Let's take a Dry (important) Bass Clarinet. 1) Set up a Altiverb Bus with the 8m Todd AO 2) In Altiverb turn off Direct, Placement and Tail...ONLY Leave on the EarlReflections....mix is 100% WET. 3)Send dry Bass Clarinet to...




vi-control.net






there is plenty of threads and comments. so for those who have altiverb (or try w a diffrent IR plugin) then maybe this could help.


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## Saxer (Aug 29, 2020)

-5 dB at 2 KHz and LASS sounds fine.


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## greentuga (Aug 30, 2020)

Saxer said:


> -5 dB at 2 KHz and LASS sounds fine.


I don’t think that way. 
you can remove -5db to the violins and some dB on violas, but it’s not linear and magic the eq. 
for me, the right reverb room help a lot more than the eq.


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## Saxer (Aug 30, 2020)

greentuga said:


> ...the right reverb room help a lot more than the eq.


Both. It's dry so it's obvious to use a reverb. But it's a very useable library. I'd compare it to a string section in your living room. They play for you into your stereo mike and it's your job to let them shine in the mix. You don't get it for free but it's absolutely doable.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 3, 2020)

Saxer said:


> Both. It's dry so it's obvious to use a reverb. But it's a very useable library. I'd compare it to a string section in your living room. They play for you into your stereo mike and it's your job to let them shine in the mix. You don't get it for free but it's absolutely doable.


...and the legato, portamento and agility are unmatched to this day. Not to mention the quality control...


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## Daniel (Oct 13, 2021)

Saxer said:


> -5 dB at 2 KHz and LASS sounds fine.


Wow, this is a magic. Thank you, Saxer. 

I am still using LASS 1.5:
Violins I _A Leg LPG (4 players)
Violins II _A Leg LPG (4 players)
Violas _A Leg LPG (3 players)
Cellos_A Leg LPG (3 players)
Basses_A Leg LPG (2 players)


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