# [Newsflash]: NS bans Sharmy



## Frederick Russ (Mar 12, 2006)

I usually refrain from posting opinions close to home but here I make an exception:

I have never met a more kind person who has always tried to help his fellow composer on this and on other sites than Craig Sharmat. Banning him from the NS forum he has contributed so much to makes no sense. 

Craig teaches the EIS method and has an EIS forum here on VI which he promotes freely where ever any student of music is willing - on NS, here - anywhere. He was not guilty of the charges of promoting VI on NS - he is guilty however of promoting EIS though and who can blame him? Spud Murphy was a mentor and teacher to him for many years. Part of the legacy Spud left before he died last year was to spread EIS far and wide to a much larger audience. Craig's first allegiance is to EIS and to his mentor and I find it disturbing that he of all people would be booted from NS.

An injustice was done today. Banning Craig Sharmat from NS is a mistake. However, one way to look at it: if this is how they've elected to treat their composers - people who have largely contributed to the relevancy of information on the NS site - then perhaps they did him a favor. Because I believe that they're proving now that they don't deserve him.

[/rant off]


----------



## Stephen Rees (Mar 12, 2006)

Frederick Russ @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> I have never met a more kind person who has always tried to help his fellow composer on this and on other sites than Craig Sharmat.



Totally agree with you there.

Thanks for all your help here at VI Craig. Much appreciated!

All the best,

Stephen


----------



## TheoKrueger (Mar 12, 2006)

I am very bummed by this too...

Craig is a great guy and has always had a constructive word to say for other people's music or to help out people with libraries. Even though a seasoned professional he's never been snobish or acting "know it all".


----------



## kid-surf (Mar 12, 2006)

Interesting embedded file........ Ha!

Well, they're getting a little paranoid ever there, the Mods. Craig said not one thing that warranted being banned. Nothing. 

Well, the reason I left NS is because they deleted a post that was meant to help me locate a lib. That's plain grade school stuff. (Damn homie, I'm just trying to find a friggn sample lib, not get involved in your politics). Then they felt the need to ignore my post to them about how stupid I felt it was that they deleted it. Tells me they don't give a fuck whether I'm there or not, and that they don't respect me enough to give me any sort of response. Fuck em. Yeah, they did Craig a favor.

And no Craig didn't solicit me to come to this forum (as they were implying). I joined because I'm sick of NS's bull shit.


And if they're reading this. They should "perhaps" take a look at their tactics before EVERYONE ends up over here out of necessity (Hey, NS mod, how the hell am I supposed to know who's on your shit list? You never sent me the memo, and I don't feel like being a member of a forum that finds it necessary to decide what I can and cannot consider to buy). I should have left sooner. As I knew this place existed way back. But I hadn't realized how low key it was here. This'll be my new spot for sample info... thing is, all I ever want is unbiased opinions on this stuff. It seems as that isn't something easily attainable at NS. Who know, not me, thanks to them for opening my eyes to their practices..............

I probably should go introduce myself here now 
:mrgreen: I'm an ok guy, you gotta believe me. :D


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Mar 12, 2006)

well - as long as the likes of Craig can still be found here i'm happy. Its funny how much talented and well known community members are ending up here.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Mar 12, 2006)

Further words are pointless... :roll:


----------



## handz (Mar 12, 2006)

:roll:


http://foshata.com/?fsh=GP5 (OMG....)

(execuse english)


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 12, 2006)

handz @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> OMG....
> 
> :roll:



what was wrong with that?


----------



## handz (Mar 12, 2006)

Waywyn @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> handz @ Sun Mar 12 said:
> 
> 
> > OMG....
> ...



Wayvyn, it has nothing to do with your post, but with the topic of thread, I found tha fact that they banned Sharmy very sad...


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Mar 12, 2006)

On my banning...i have no problem with it, as it is I spend too much time here, let alone over there.

What is not agreeable is the character defamation that I was accused of. I was accused of writing things in the private forum areas and on chats ridiculing NS. I have not gone to a chat room in over 2 yrs as I found it took too much time out of my day. I may have been there when others slammed NS but I do not remember taking part. I was also charged with recruiting, something else I have little desire to do, as there is no gain for me to see this forum grow larger than it is. It will probably become larger out of neccesity now. Marc and Brian, since I know you can see this, bring out your proof that I defamed NS privately....nah don't bother, I have found the only possible posts in question and will post them for you. These were in the private area, which you are not privey to but maybe hacked into or spied. The 2 posts here occured in a year and a half span.

"the biggest hit was taken when EW left. You could find all the major developers in one place, that is no longer the case. Not only is EW not posting there, but they are not allowed to. That''s huge!...they are the most important developer whether you like them or not."

"after houston's tirade a few days ago, and papa's threat to do something about it, it appears that houston was given a slap on the wrist and was not allowed to post for 3 days. Still he was reinstated. 

this is actually good news. as much as he deserves to be banned, i prefer his presence over on NS."

So either you have nothing or you have this....either way you can have your forum. While I wish the best for your members, and wish I could help protect them from erroneous information they may receive, I believe supporting (posting) in a place where my input contibutes to legitimacy of your forum is not in my best interest or others.


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 12, 2006)

handz @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> Waywyn @ Sun Mar 12 said:
> 
> 
> > handz @ Sun Mar 12 said:
> ...



arg, forgive me. it just looked like. i think i start to see ghosts. sorry 'bout that, but your avatar pic is so paralyzing


----------



## Frederick Russ (Mar 12, 2006)

This particular banning seems very short-sighted. If you think about it, this whole campaign of NS censorship appears to be about trying to corner the market by prohibiting musicians from going anywhere else in an attempt to get them to buy only NS-sponsored products. It may work in the short run. But in the long haul I believe its doomed for failure once all the so-called 'detractors' are eliminated through banning and the lights go on to reveal that the very thing that made NS great has been carved away one member at a time.

I believe its the nature of musicians to roam about and be part of many different communities, expanding one's horizons, and exercising that freedom without being forced to only partake of one particular brand of information to the exclusion of all others. I also believe that musicians and composers need to be understood both as the free-spirits they are (and what they can become) to help facilitate and bring into focus the creative energies that make good composers great. I am of the opinion that having a composer-based community that supports the composer's journey from good to great is necessary. Even if a particular community is more developer based like NS, I believe it would be in the sample library developer's best interest to see to it that this process is supported as well.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 12, 2006)

Pretty amazing to see what a small group of people has been able to accomplish at NS. The list of accomplished composers banned from NS grows by the minute :shock: 

Banning Craig is a terrible move. :roll: 
It's their loss, VI gain  

NS being a relevant site where the most professional advice can be found is becoming less of a reality over a very fast period of time.
I predict membership here is going to grow exponentially (it already is)

I think I'll go and get banned today :twisted:


----------



## Jon Paouli Trapek (Mar 12, 2006)

Its a dumb move on their part. Very shortsighted.


----------



## fitch (Mar 12, 2006)

just to echo the view ... this is very shortsighted of NS .... 

I can see that the road they are treading is becoming narrow. They have lost a lot of respect I think.


----------



## fitch (Mar 12, 2006)

i've just been over to NS .. and something hit me ..

so sharmy gets banned for talking about the wonderful EIS .. yet .. down on the Hardware forum .. do any of the thread startes get banned for talking about various bits of kit ... (which could easily be construed as advertising ) 


..

it make no sense .. 


..


i'm glad we have VI


----------



## Simon Ravn (Mar 12, 2006)

I agree, this is good for VI  Mark Simon is digging his own grave. By all means, let him proceed.


----------



## linwood (Mar 12, 2006)

I'm so sorry that happened, Craig. You know, out of all the countless musicians that I've had the honor of sharing the bandstand with, I always loved and respected what you brought to the table. To see and hear where you've taken yourself in the past 25 years is mind blowing. And even now you give me inspiration and hope with my own career. No one else ever did that for me at NS. Be proud,bro.


----------



## fictionmusic (Mar 12, 2006)

wow the us and them wall is just getting bigger and bigger...strange.

BTW...Patrick I was reading the NS thread over there that referred to VI as a cesspool being led by "self-proclaimed gods" and/or "Eurotrash" and I thought your comments were respectful and insightful. I was going to post that here but it looked the flames were dying down and I saw no point in fanning them.
I think this whole baning thing is silly and hopefully after this last foray we can settle back into some peaceful dialogs about music and gear.


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 12, 2006)

fictionmusic @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> wow the us and them wall is just getting bigger and bigger...strange.
> 
> BTW...Patrick I was reading the NS thread over there that referred to VI as a cesspool being led by "self-proclaimed gods" and/or "Eurotrash" and I thought your comments were respectful and insightful. I was going to post that here but it looked the flames were dying down and I saw no point in fanning them.
> I think this whole baning thing is silly and hopefully after this last foray we can settle back into some peaceful dialogs about music and gear.



Thanks for the kind words :smile: 

I just resigned my membership at NS.

I tried posting a thread questioning their lack of judgement and ungratefulness towards Craig but that post got deleted and I was banned.

Good thing is that so many people have been joining VI lately that the amount of daily threads is getting a serious boost


----------



## Frederick Russ (Mar 12, 2006)

I was cruising the internet and found this:







Should go to every member nixed over at the tan forum  (including those who decided to ban themselves)


----------



## Thonex (Mar 12, 2006)

Wow... those moderators should get a clue. They clearly are paranoid about something. Unbelievable.

Craig is about as level headed and cordial as you can get. The fact that they banned him over there blows my mind.

All I can say is WOW :shock: :???: :roll: 

The only reason I go over there is for the Kontakt forum.

...wow [shaking head]

T


----------



## sbkp (Mar 12, 2006)

Thonex @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> The only reason I go over there is for the Kontakt forum.



Just start talking about K2 more here... 

- Stefan


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Mar 12, 2006)

Thanks fellows, i appreciate the kind words.

It should be obvious to anyone who wants to post on my behalf at NS, that they will be banned...proceed at your own risk.

Personally there is little left there that I cannot get here, or on user developers forums. All developers or betas for all major or minor companies are here except Garritan and Bela. There is probably little out cry for my banning on NS as it is

1. either squashed as done with Patrick
2. Anyone who i might matter to is probably here already


----------



## Thonex (Mar 12, 2006)

sbkp @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> Thonex @ Sun Mar 12 said:
> 
> 
> > The only reason I go over there is for the Kontakt forum.
> ...



I will. But it's regarding scripting mostly... pretty boring stuff... unless you're into that kind of thing :smile: 


T


----------



## sbkp (Mar 12, 2006)

Believe me, I'm into that kind of thing.


- Stefan :o


----------



## Thonex (Mar 12, 2006)

sbkp @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> Believe me, I'm into that kind of thing.
> 
> 
> - Stefan :o



Cool!!


Maybe if there are enough of us we can ask Frederick to create a K2 scripting area here :smile: 

But for now.... back on topic....

*By banning Sharmy from NS, they have squandered any credibility they otherwise may have had.*


----------



## Chrislight (Mar 12, 2006)

I'm very sorry about your banning Craig, especially after all you've done to help people over there. You're a good person and certainly didn't deserve to be treated like that.  It's very self-destructive on their part as we all have a sense of justice and when something happens that seems so unjustified it can create a wave of sentiment that floats more members off their forum and lands them over here. Unless of course, that is what they want. :roll: 

Love that Sharmy Medal! :lol: May have to order those in bulk. :wink:


----------



## Markleford (Mar 12, 2006)

Craig Sharmat @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> There is probably little out cry for my banning on NS as it is
> 
> 1. either squashed as done with Patrick
> 2. Anyone who i might matter to is probably here already


And, 3. It's not like bannings are ever advertised on the originating forum. It's typically up to whispering campaigns (which take time) or other forums (which not all people are on) to get the word out.

Actually, it would probably be a good idea for them to post to a "banning thread" announcing who got axed, the reasoning, and the supporting evidence. At least then it would all be above-board and require such a stance to be defensible in some capacity. I'd even say that feedback from other users should also be allowed in "amnesty mode" so they can at least say their peace. Otherwise, it's just causing the slow erosion that others have pointed out.

(In fact, I'll PM that to this admins in question...)

- m


----------



## Simon Ravn (Mar 12, 2006)

Markleford, don't waste your time. Papa Chalk would never do this. He bans for commercial reasons only. As simple is that.


----------



## KingIdiot (Mar 12, 2006)

ok, this whole forum bitching war thing is stupid.

Craig, sorry you got banned, but if all of you sit here and just bitch about it you give them fuel for this "all they do is complaing about NS".

This forum is great for everyone who wants to be open about libraries, software and music, so lets focus on that.

Both forums are lacking in actual sample discussion lately. NS was a great place for discussing new techs, how to make old techs better, and giving examples of all the libs being used. People blame this on the fact that all the talented people have been banned.Yet, even here alot of these guys arent really posting shit in terms of music or sample discussions.

Too much time is being focused on the people involved at both forums, probably behind the scenes too.

Things changed at NS,yes. I believe it had more to do with the community changes than the "developer run" attitude most place on them. I'm not saying that their banning antics didnt have anything to do with this. But lets put the real bulk of the blame where it belongs. The community, including ourselves.

Its all fine that this place is trying to be open and let everyone speak their minds,so lets use it to make important discusions. Not play highschool clique trash talking

I know craig would agree, especially after I feed him a few carbombs....wait maybe I have that backwards!

I'm not trying to be neutral on all this stuff BTW. I just think its all bullshit to focus on it so much.


----------



## christianobermaier (Mar 12, 2006)

I just deleted all my posts over at NS, as i fail to see the point in continuing to offer information and knowledge there rather than elswehere.

Christian

http://www.artofthegroove.com/logic/mp3/Christian_Obermaier_demo.mp3 (show reel) http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/home.htm (home page) http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/Studio.htm (studio pics) http://uk.geocities.com/christianobermaier/Gearlist.htm (gear list)


----------



## fictionmusic (Mar 12, 2006)

KingIdiot @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> ok, this whole forum bitching war thing is stupid....I'm not trying to be neutral on all this stuff BTW. I just think its all bullshit to focus on it so much.



Yah I tend to agree, but I figure it's probably best to beat it to death first and then move on. At least then everyone will have been able to vent and get it off their chests. 
At first I didn't really care when there was a new thread announcing the current banning and the almost point of pride for having it happen, but now after seeing some of it up close (the last couple of threads here and at NS ie), I can see why it has become such a focus.

It'll all die soon I'd wager (I hope!)


----------



## choc0thrax (Mar 12, 2006)

The community changed because of the developers. There is too much whining on both sides. Let's get back to talking about sample libraries, good, bad, legato challenged, hollywood sounding, not hollywood sounding, keyboard imputed trills and tremolo strings, and how everyone wants warm lush strings and can't find them. I think there should be a sticky in the sample libraries area for k2 scripting discussions and posting of scripts. That's what we should be concentrating on now. Why do I not have a great legato script that can detect what i'm playing and play the appropriate samples? Someone get on that right away!


----------



## Chrislight (Mar 12, 2006)

fictionmusic @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> KingIdiot @ Sun Mar 12 said:
> 
> 
> > ok, this whole forum bitching war thing is stupid....I'm not trying to be neutral on all this stuff BTW. I just think its all bullshit to focus on it so much.
> ...



Agreed... it can be very cathartic for people to be able to express themselves. Once that is done, they can move on again. This has happened before and once the purging is done, the focus changes back. :smile:


----------



## Frederick Russ (Mar 12, 2006)

Agreed KI. I'd like to believe there can be a resolution where we all can live in relative peace and harmony regardless of where we spend most of our time. Like you I'm an advocate for relevancy in content regarding virtual instruments, sample libraries and such, and while this debacle is front and center its cutting into that. 

Personally I believe an act of good faith by NS would be to restore Craig's account and for them to make a public apology to Craig because things were said about his character and things he was accused of were not true - that's what I'm really taking issue with (aside from fully admitting to the emotional rhetoric on both sides and my part in it). I was fully ready for this whole thing to die down but regardless of whether I look at it up, down or sideways, I believe banning Craig was wrong and ethically it needs to be made right.

I try not to make it a habit to be so polarized but occasionally some of it slips through the cracks and for that I sincerely apologize because it was not my initial intention to alienate members of any forum. We all make mistakes - I can admit mine. NS members are welcome on VI - I just wish the opposite were true.


----------



## lux (Mar 12, 2006)

Craig's banning is quite a stupid move, but not unexpected I have to say. 

About false accusations, there are attorneys for this and I would suggest begin using law for many things. I want my content removed too Papachalk and forum advertising are using abusively the content of all banned members acually. I like to spend few bucks with attorneys, its my hobby after sample libraries.

now, lemme agree with Chocothrax and lets talk about the samples.

Btw, King, I think being in a middle position is actually pointless, there's an evident difference in treatment where NS dont allow anyone of us to reply to accusation. It is not a forum war, its a metodic elimination. Sounds different to me.

Alan, I didnt hear your voice.....

Luca


----------



## Mike Greene (Mar 12, 2006)

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

If NS wants to force all the respected guys to be here exclusively, then what exactly are they thinking is going to happen? Speaking for myself, there aren't that many reasons for me to keep visiting there. Just a few friends left. Hmmm . . . I'd better keep the rest of my thoughts to myself.

- Mike Greene


----------



## neoTypic (Mar 12, 2006)

I suppose you can count me as another detractor. I've ghosted here for a long time but it seems NSS has forced my hand in leaving despite that I feel there are still posters there worth reading. I simply can't abide by some of their polices and actions and "do as I say, not as I do" nature.

Proudly banned member since 2006. :roll: 

I expect a lot less frustration in my morning routine. :lol:


----------



## sbkp (Mar 12, 2006)

Welcome, neo. You're among friends 

- Stefan (NS ban-o-rific since last month)


----------



## Hans Adamson (Mar 12, 2006)

Hey Neo,

I enjoyed your posts at NS. I will enjoy them here now.


----------



## lux (Mar 12, 2006)

neoTypic @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> I suppose you can count me as another detractor. I've ghosted here for a long time but it seems NSS has forced my hand in leaving despite that I feel there are still posters there worth reading. I simply can't abide by some of their polices and actions and "do as I say, not as I do" nature.
> 
> Proudly banned member since 2006. :roll:
> 
> I expect a lot less frustration in my morning routine. :lol:



welcome Neo


----------



## Joseph Burrell (Mar 12, 2006)

Welcome Neo, you'll have a good time here.


----------



## Thonex (Mar 12, 2006)

Welcome neo!!

Good to see you here ol' buddy.

It's been a while huh?




Ok.... I really don't know who this Neo guy is... but I wanted to be a part of the party :smile: :razz: 

Cheers,

T


----------



## synergy543 (Mar 12, 2006)

Craig Sharmat @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> It should be obvious to anyone who wants to post on my behalf at NS, that they will be banned...proceed at your own risk.



Well, I don't know....they'd have to ban Brian2112. There's a thread at the top of the charts there where he's giving Sharmy accolades. Its a great article for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

Might want to give it a read and post your messages about too. :wink:


----------



## kid-surf (Mar 12, 2006)

King --- I'll just tell you my stance.

I think this is the "natural" evolution taking place now. It'll all die down when it's supposed to. But for now people are speaking their mind. I think i've made 5 posts about it, in a week. And I was a member at NS since 2002. So I really don't think a few days of bitching constitutes much at all. I'm simply venting a little.... 
(And since, it was a thread where "i" was asking for leads, i thinò:‡   3è0:‡   3è1:‡   3è2:‡   3è3:‡   3è4:‡   3è5:‡   3è6:‡   3è7:ˆ   3è8:ˆ   3è9:ˆ   3è::ˆ   3è;:ˆ   3è<:ˆ   3è=:‰   3è>:‰   3è?:‰   3è@:‰   3èA:‰   3èB:‰   3èC:‰   3èD:‰   3èE:‰   3èF:‰   3èG:‰   3èH:‰   3èI:‰   3èJ:‰   3èK:‰   3èL:‰   3èM:‰   3èN:‰   3èO:‰   3èP:‰   3èQ:Š   3èR:Š   3èS:Š   3èT:Š   3èU:Š   3èV:Š   3èW:Š   3èX:Š   3èY:Š   3èZ:Š   3è[:Š   3è\:Š   3è]:Š   3è^:Š   3è_:Š   3è`:Š   3èa:Š   3èb:Š   3èc:Š   3èd:Š   3èe:Š   3èf:Š   3èg:Š   3èh:Š   3èi:Š   3èj:Š   3èk:Š   3èl:Š   3èm:‹   3èn:‹   3èo:‹   3èp:‹   3èq:‹   3èr:‹   3ès:‹   3èt:‹   3èu:‹   3èv:‹   3èw:‹   3èx:‹   3èy:‹   3èz:‹   3è{:‹   3è|:‹   3è}:‹   3è~:‹   3è:‹   3è€:‹   3è:‹   3è‚:‹   3èƒ:‹   3è„:‹   3è…:‹   3è†:‹   3è‡:‹   3èˆ:‹   3è‰:Œ   3èŠ:Œ   3è‹:Œ   3èŒ:Œ   3è:Œ


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Mar 12, 2006)

LOL!

It does seem like things can only go down from here on.


----------



## rJames (Mar 12, 2006)

Hmmm. Their loss. I have to agree with the positive comments about Craig. For a guy with a lot of knowledge to share, he shares the most.


----------



## janila (Mar 12, 2006)

Frederick Russ @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> I was cruising the internet and found this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Heck, I tried to post this to the Sharmy thread on NS but I can't as their censorship script screws up the link. :neutral: Nice medal though. :razz:


----------



## SWL (Mar 12, 2006)

Wow ! I go away for about 6 months (quit the corporate composing gig - took a well needed sabatical) and look what happens ... they ban the most decent, respectable PROFESSIONAL individual there .... what a shame .... their lose absolutely!!

Well .... i myself have been banned there - let's see maybe 4 or 5 times ... reinvented the nick a few times, others - i gave in and 'apologized' .... hmmmm. Browsing around today - i find nothing of actual worth or value there ... nothing. Obviously they have bent over to the almighty banner ad .... ha ! !

Anyhow ! ! Craig - YES i am NOW - CERTAINLY ready for the EIS journey - im still scoring, just back to home studio  OH - a good friend of mine just got hired at Line6 - i have the 'skinny' on some cool new stuff they have in development ! We'll chat soon !

Man, VI has grown ! That's great ! Now what was the name of that other forum?? 
BS or something like that ?? :lol:


----------



## janila (Mar 12, 2006)

christianobermaier @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> I just deleted all my posts over at NS, as i fail to see the point in continuing to offer information and knowledge there rather than elswehere.


How did you do that? I tried to find out a way but didn't seem to find one. I'm thinking it might be the time to give the boot to my 566 posts @ BS. :roll:

edit: Make it 565 posts as the Sharmy thread just disappeared.


----------



## Elfen (Mar 12, 2006)

N.S. used to be a great forum, It created the sharing environment that we found today at V.I. It's sad that it come to this, after great years of learning and sharing time. I'm sure it will follow on, but with less and less great collaborators.


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Mar 12, 2006)

great collaberators need to talk about happening libraries. If one is not allowed to post about libraries in a free manner the poster will not stay or be banned.

BTW all my posts over there were removed which i am fine with.


----------



## synergy543 (Mar 12, 2006)

Craig Sharmat @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> great collaberators need to talk about happening libraries. If one is not allowed to post about libraries in a free manner the poster will not stay or be banned.
> 
> BTW all my posts over there were removed which i am fine with.



Wow! That's a lot of information they deleted. That's like self-infliced Liposuction. :lol:


----------



## Hans Adamson (Mar 12, 2006)

Craig Sharmat @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> great collaberators need to talk about happening libraries. If one is not allowed to post about libraries in a free manner the poster will not stay or be banned.
> 
> BTW all my posts over there were removed which i am fine with.



For the first time I realize the true meaning of the expression: "shooting yourself in the foot"...


----------



## IFM (Mar 12, 2006)

I don't understand it myself. Perhaps the answer can be found here...
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/archivist.htm (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warrio ... hivist.htm)

Chris


----------



## Andrew Aversa (Mar 12, 2006)

I can't believe I'm taking the time to write this since I'm in finals week, but I gotta get this off my back;

I am 18 years old. I got into computer music a few years ago and someone recommended NSS as a great place to learn about sampling and sample libraries. I've been visiting there for over a year now and have learned a lot from experienced composers, about not only sampling and virtual instrument technology but composition and the "big picture". Not once have I had a post deleted either, but that is beside the point.

This "forum vs forum" thing is ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. I cannot believe that grown men and women - educated professionals, no less - are acting like a bunch of middle school kids. I regularly visit forums about *video games* where the average age of forum members is probably not even HALF the average age of members here, and there is not nearly the amount of idiotic, petty BS that I've seen in just within the last week around here. I'm actually *embarassed* to be a member of NSS and VI after seeing this nonsense.

Don't ANY of you have the sense to step back, stop gossiping and flat-out insulting eachother, and actually ask yourself what the hell you are doing when you could be, you know, MAKING MUSIC? Isn't that what we're here for? I'm posting here because at least at NSS, all of the inter-forum garbage is deleted to begin with. Look at this place. More people have come to visit these latest three "forum war" topics in these last few days *than just about any TWO other subforums on this site combined*. The "Library Recommendation" thread has more activity by itself than any thread on the first page of the Sample OR Synth discussion forums. Unbelievable.

I'm working hard in college right now and I barely have time to read forums as it is (much less post in them). How you guys - adults with careers, families - find the time to write diatribes about NS (and vice versa) is completely beyond me. Grow up.

ps. I don't plan on posting any more on the topic. If you feel like banning me for whatever reason, go ahead. Unlike some of you, I won't be spending time (that could be spent making music) complaining about being barred from posting on an INTERNET FORUM.


----------



## choc0thrax (Mar 12, 2006)

zircon_st @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> I can't believe I'm taking the time to write this since I'm in finals week, but I gotta get this off my back;
> 
> I am 18 years old. I got into computer music a few years ago and someone recommended NSS as a great place to learn about sampling and sample libraries. I've been visiting there for over a year now and have learned a lot from experienced composers, about not only sampling and virtual instrument technology but composition and the "big picture". Not once have I had a post deleted either, but that is beside the point.
> 
> ...



This is true. Although I disagree about video game forums. These sample library sites are actually tame compared to what i'm used to.


----------



## Hans Adamson (Mar 12, 2006)

zircon_st @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> I can't believe I'm taking the time to write this since I'm in finals week, but I gotta get this off my back;
> 
> I am 18 years old. I got into computer music a few years ago and someone recommended NSS as a great place to learn about sampling and sample libraries. I've been visiting there for over a year now and have learned a lot from experienced composers, about not only sampling and virtual instrument technology but composition and the "big picture". Not once have I had a post deleted either, but that is beside the point.
> 
> ...



Hello Andrew,

18 years old and growing strong! Good for you. You see this is how it starts. You are young and have already expressed a strong opinion on this forum. In time someone may call you a liar and ban you. But not from this forum. 

I'm sure you will stay cool and above these things, but when you realize that you just have been villified in the original , but monopolistic Forum that you have been part of building up, you will of course go on and take the high road.

You may find eventually, though, that you are no different from most people here. I know it sounds scary. But it may happen.


----------



## rJames (Mar 12, 2006)

zircon_st @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> I can't believe I'm taking the time to write this since I'm in finals week, but I gotta get this off my back;
> ... - find the time to write diatribes about NS (and vice versa) is completely beyond me. Grow up.
> 
> ps. I don't plan on posting any more on the topic. If you feel like banning me for whatever reason, go ahead. Unlike some of you, I won't be spending time (that could be spent making music) complaining about being barred from posting on an INTERNET FORUM.



Did you notice that yours is the longest post in this thread? And that 90% of the posts in this thread are about Craig and not about NS?

(rhetorical questions) no reply necessary...


----------



## Evan Gamble (Mar 12, 2006)

i usually post while instruments are loading and what not-

but dude-you totally messed up the fun :twisted: :wink: 

welcome to VI btw-and no you wont be banned for anything


----------



## synergy543 (Mar 12, 2006)

zircon_st @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> This "forum vs forum" thing is ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. I cannot believe that grown men and women - educated professionals, no less - are acting like a bunch of middle school kids. I regularly visit forums about *video games* where the average age of forum members is probably not even HALF the average age of members here, and there is not nearly the amount of idiotic, petty BS that I've seen in just within the last week around here. I'm actually *embarassed* to be a member of NSS and VI after seeing this nonsense.
> 
> Don't ANY of you have the sense to step back, stop gossiping and flat-out insulting eachother, and actually ask yourself what the hell you are doing when you could be, you know, MAKING MUSIC? Isn't that what we're here for?



Hi Zircon, Its an issue about principle. We certainly don't enjoy it anymore than you do but to be silent is to be an accomplice. Same reason you should get out and vote.


----------



## Mike Greene (Mar 12, 2006)

Andrew, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret: we don't really come to these forums just to learn about sample libraries. I know that's what we tell our wives, but there it is.

You see, some of us enjoy hanging out with our peers. We become friends. We do seriously care about music, but that's not the only reason for being here. 

So when someone (or in this case, a LOT of someones) gets banned, it's nice to know your friends are going to have some words of support. It's one of those "human needs" things.

And just like when your girlfriend dumps you because she's been having an affair with some jerk you've hated since 5th grade, it's nice to know your friends aren't going to tell you to stop whining. They're going to chime in about how they always knew she was b****!

Venting is healthy. It would be nice if we could just "get over it" and stick to samples discussions, but real life doesn't work that way.

- Mike Greene


----------



## Nick Phoenix (Mar 12, 2006)

I like the low road, fruit loops and my bb gun.


----------



## Hans Adamson (Mar 12, 2006)

Nick Phoenix @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> I like the low road, fruit loops and my bb gun.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Doug Wellington (Mar 12, 2006)

I don't remember where I got this. Interpret as you will:

Top 20 things I've learned as a developer:

This vs That threads are pointless every time, except for a laugh.
Craig Sharmat is the nicest guy you will ever meet. (I would say similar of Frank, Joseph Burrell and Tom Hopkins)
V.I. gets hacked, and threads disappear. N.S. gets interesting, and threads disappear.
More GigaBytes will _not_ make you happy.
Ok, more GigaBytes _will_ make you happy, until your credit card statement arrives.
All sample developers have some form, no matter how slight, of a mental illness. (including, but not limited to, paranoia, bipolar disorder, and/or world domination tendencies)
Styxx will have another 500 posts by the time I finish typing this.
Recording dry is better.
Nothing makes me prouder than when someone posts a piece theyâ€™ve made with my samples.
Developers work really really really hard on their libraries; so cut them some slack if one sample out of 50,000 has an issue. They will fix it for you if you kindly bring it to their attention.
Recording in a hall is better.
Almost every developer has more than one alias on the boards; some even have conversations with themselves/their multiple aliases. (see #6)
The people doing the most interesting things are also the people getting the least amount of attention.
Most of us will never feel like we already have everything we need to make great music, but if only we had that one last library due out next month, that would do it!
Group Buys are the worst idea since invading Iraq.
The â€œHollywoodâ€ sound doesnâ€™t exist, unless someone with only 3 posts is giving their expert opinion on the differences between EW and VSL.
Thereâ€™s no pleasing Simon Ravn.
Did you instantly notice that all the comments mentioning developerâ€™s mental health were numbered with multiples of six (including this one  )? If so, maybe you should be a developer too!
Size does, in fact, matter.
Size does, in fact, matter. [whoa, I thought we would have eliminated the machine gun effect by â€™06!?!]

Edit: author: Alan Lastufka. Thanks synergy543!


----------



## synergy543 (Mar 12, 2006)

Nick Phoenix @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> I like the low road, fruit loops and my bb gun.



Nice to know you're patrolling the perimeter and "always looking out for us" Nick. :mrgreen: 

Somebody get the guy some more fruitloops....


----------



## synergy543 (Mar 12, 2006)

Doug Wellington @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> If someone knows who the author was, let me know I'll edit to include...


That would be Lincoln Flesh.....er um, I mean Alan Lastufka. He's a good guy and works for Francis. We're hoping some of his humor and tolerance will eventually rub off.


----------



## Hans Adamson (Mar 12, 2006)

Doug Wellington @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> All sample developers have some form, no matter how slight, of a mental illness. (including, but not limited to, paranoia, bipolar disorder, and/or world domination tendencies)



So true, so true..all of the above, and new ones are popping up every day!


----------



## Markleford (Mar 12, 2006)

zircon_st @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> This "forum vs forum" thing is ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. I cannot believe that grown men and women - educated professionals, no less - are acting like a bunch of middle school kids. [...] I'm actually *embarassed* to be a member of NSS and VI after seeing this nonsense.


Total agreement.

And instead of making this banning yet another rallying cry call to arms, how about we all swing by the EIS Discussion area and learn a thing or two instead? It seems that everyone else is more pissed about this than sharmy himself, when they could just be enjoying his undivided attention at VI. _(BONUS! Exclusive Content!)_

Maybe everyone can share a pitcher of my hippie-esque "sweet lemons" lemonade while we're there: ain't never as sour as you originally expect.

- m


----------



## navidson (Mar 12, 2006)

I promised myself I wouldn't do anything more than observe this, but since zircon seems to have hacked into my mind and posted my exact thoughts I might as well throw in some additional cents (read: cover myself in barbique sauce and throw myself into the lion pit). 

I've been completely alarmed at everything that's happened recently. I never took any notice of the politics and tit-for-tat going on before because I'm not heavily involved with posting on message boards in any capacity, but the recent purge on NS and the chain of events that has followed has been difficult to ignore. 
In the grand scheme of things I could care less what NorthernSounds does in regards to banning and company agendas, either way it makes no difference to me. What does bother me is the attitude that I'm seeing from the developers and 'professionals' alike.

Like zircon I am a student, I have aspirations to be in the positions that many of you folks are currently in and it is for that reason I have gravitated to forums such as these. I'm supposed to be looking up to you for inspiration and knowledge, but instead I'm witnessing grown adults acting like kids running riot and it's really leaving a bad taste in my mouth. It's extremely unsettling to see Craig not only banned but all his posts BALETED FOR ALL ETERNETY, because there's so much knowledge to be gleamed off his posts past and present (not to mention the entirely spurious reasons for doing so), but witnessing the way people are responding here and the attitude that I see in these reactionary posts against NS is equally making me a sad panda. Right now both parties are looking pretty shameful. 

It's alarming to see people who are older and more experienced act in such a childish manner, especially so when it's developers slinging mud at each other from every corner of the ring or being snarky little trolls whenever they get the chance. It's alarming to see such a large streak of elitism that is upheld in a lot of recent posts I've looked at which makes me want to crawl out of my skin. It's alarming to see gangs and cliques and a general sense of spite and distrust no matter where I look - I turn my head to NS and see East West being trashed, I turn my head to here and see Garritan and Bela D being trashed, I turn my head to Soundsonline and see everything that isn't Quantumn Leap being trashed. I thought the LOL YOUR COMPANY PRODUCT SUX NO IT DOESNT N00B STFU mindset was relegated to console and graphics card forums only - sadly it seems to be a defining factor in all messageboards across the internet. LOL NORTHERNSOUNZ SUXX LOOK AT WHAT THOSE N00BS ARE SAYING NOW LOLOL is not a good advertisement for VI Control, but it's currently what's on display to the world at large if you poke your head in here.

There's a big attitude problem prevailent throughout all the inter-related communities, and it doesn't begin and end at NorthenSounds. From my perspective it seems that a lot of people have completely lost sight of the music, instead more interested in busying themselves with petty squabbling, nitpicking and the pursuit of anti-developer agendas beyond all relms of common sense. Of course this doesn't extend to everyone by any stretch of the imagination, but it's the folks with the big egos and endless supply of snide comments to make that burrow deeper into my perception of things and ultimatly cause me to do silly things like this and get involved.

Enough of this 'Us And Them' shite across all boards. Take a break from the internet and concentrate on things that are really important for a while.


----------



## synergy543 (Mar 12, 2006)

Damn, kids are so mature these days...

[Guys, we have a lot of up and coming competition...somebody take Choco and hide him in the back closet and if anyone sees Nick patrolling the perimeter with that BB gun, take it away and give him some more Fruit Loops.] 

OK kid, and you were saying?..... :mrgreen:


----------



## Elfen (Mar 12, 2006)

-navidson/zircon-

I think your oversimplying things here and taking stuff a bit too at heart. Being upset about anything doesn't necessarily create flame wars. Anybody has the right to be upset when equality and equity is at stake. 

True that NSS has the right to do what they want, but that not make their world better. It is what it is talked here. I don't see "NSS sux" or anything like that here. But I see discomfort about the way things are done there. 

Sure we talk about music and that is our primary goal, still as in any community things can go wrong and people still need to talk about it. I think it is pretty adult.

Cheers


----------



## kid-surf (Mar 13, 2006)

To: zircon_st *&* navidson


You're gonna have to accept it, *I am immature*, and glad to be. I mean, if college kids want to take this sample stuff (or life) dead seriously they are free to, I sure as hell ain't gonna.

Here's the thing ---- Every one of these composers here is _serious_ when they're are "writing" for a job. Otherwise, who friggn cares? Not me. Classify me under "I don't give a crap, I'm not gonna be deadly serious when i don't *need* to be". And I'll vent when i *feel* like it....... (that's part of what's cool about being an adult, you do what you want  --- except at NS of course :mrgreen: ) 


...tell me that wasn't funny..... lighten up kids. And yes, pretty long an "deadly serious" posts by you two (which i couldn't bare to read fully). You want a grade on the essays? Um, I'll give you both an A+, just cuz I like you kids.... :mrgreen: 


PS... Ditto Mike Green and Nick. I found Nick's response especially appropriate.  What I wrote above was way too mature IMO.


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 13, 2006)

somehow i have to agree with zirkon and navidson too,

but i think you can say that about almost every political debate or other big discussions. at a certain point we start to react like kids. look at wars? "damn this sucker attacked me, we have to strike back!!!" isn't that childish? i think yes.

anyway, you can't compare it to video game forums where everyone is bashing pervertly and almost antisocial ... and even can write and know about grammar.

i just think if you guys would have been here for so long and it would actually affect you (baning, censoring etc.) then you would react different.

okay, some people don't care about such problems and yes it seems childish from the outside, but like i mentioned above ... there are wars starting only because of a religious point of view. i think THIS is childish.

we just have a few discussions about some irritating and weird stuff going on the last months.

ATTENTION: i know that there is a lot of aggressive potentional around, but this thread doesn't mean to be rude, more trying to clarify the situation.


----------



## neoTypic (Mar 13, 2006)

Thanks for the warm welcome guys. 

As to the Garritan/Bela D bashing:

The vast majority of the forum members probably couldn't care one way or the other let alone spend time bashing them. I love it when a handful of people that have a personal bone with a dev warrant the grandstanding champions of justice and truth to condemn an entire audience. Note to self: buy stock in soap boxes. 

Personally I don't have a single ill word to say about Mr. G. As long as I've known him he has conducted himself professionally.

Bela D's team I have no ill will towards. Bela D himself? I think his products sound fine, but I refuse to support him because I think he's a bipolar borderline twat that can't separate his personal life and agendas from being a developer (wow that felt good). It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was that troll geronimo001 over on NSS.

Normally I don't feel so strongly about people one way or the other, but I take great insult in selective censorship, developer bashing, and having my name dragged through muck and THEN being called a troll. :lol: Ayup, that's pretty rich!

Anyhoo, now that I have that off my chest I'll probably return to being mild mannered and obtusely helpful(?).


----------



## Hans Adamson (Mar 13, 2006)

navidson @ Sun Mar 12 said:


> Enough of this 'Us And Them' shite across all boards. Take a break from the internet and concentrate on things that are really important for a while.



I don't know where you see this "Us and them shite" here. A lot of people here are members of both forums. Craig had more posts over at NS than he has here. People are upset over an injustice by the NS management, which I don't think is in any way representative of the NS crowd, because we are part of it. 

The problem is - you can't protest this injustice over there. This is the only place to do it.

I have no ill feelings towards the members of NS. Plese don't read between the lines and add sentiments and opinions that don't exist.


----------



## Thonex (Mar 13, 2006)

Hans Adamson @ Mon Mar 13 said:


> Craig had more posts over at NS than he has here.



Wow... I didn't realize that. Deleting 1900 posts... that's sort of like the burning of the library of Alexandria. :roll: what a waste.



Hans Adamson @ Mon Mar 13 said:


> I have no ill feelings towards the members of NS. Plese don't read between the lines and add sentiments and opinions that don't exist.



I think most us feel exactly this way. Thanks for putting this into words Hans.

T


----------



## navidson (Mar 13, 2006)

A good night's sleep later and I'm a little embarrased at how charged my post was, but hey, it still stands.

Hans, someone in this very thread mentioned an 'us and them barrier' which is what caused me to mention it. I see 'us and them' when people say "look! I deleted all my posts too for a self imposed ban! take that northernsounds!", I see it when there are threads with "lol more northernsound parody sites plz!" content in them, I see it when NS activly censor the names of other forums and start booting out anyone who possibly might post at these message boards. I don't think I'm reading between the lines at all.

Of course these are just observations I have made from my time dabbling amongst the various communities, and as I stated in my previous post these generalisations do not apply to everyone. The more vehement attitudes rise to the surface of message boards and it these that have coloured my outlook on events.


----------



## Ed (Mar 13, 2006)

navidson @ Mon Mar 13 said:


> I see it when there are threads with "lol more northernsound parody sites plz!" content in them, .



And why not, it was very funny. I guess you dont go on newgrounds very often, people sometimes make parody animations because they like whatever it happens to be! And they can always make their own. 

Ed


----------



## navidson (Mar 13, 2006)

Funny is such a subjective thing. I see it more as petty flamebaiting than being lighthearted satire... but that may have something to do with this point:


> i just think if you guys would have been here for so long and it would actually affect you (baning, censoring etc.) then you would react different.



Which is true.

Anyway, now all that's off my chest I shall leave this sillyness well alone... I realise I'm not exactly making friends and influencing people by bounding in and urinating in everyone's cornflakes


----------



## synergy543 (Mar 13, 2006)

navidson @ Mon Mar 13 said:


> Anyway, now all that's off my chest I shall leave this sillyness well alone... I realise I'm not exactly making friends and influencing people by bounding in and urinating in everyone's cornflakes


Man, you haven't met Choco yet. He's going to be SO HAPPY to have found another friend. :lol:


----------



## Markleford (Mar 13, 2006)

Ed @ Mon Mar 13 said:


> And why not, it was very funny.


Ehhhh... not really. Perhaps "momentarily baffling in a puerile shock-jock capacity" and intended for the VI audience, which is why it's been pointed out as a divisive work. And poorly executed. I don't know what it says about the VI audience that someone thought it would suit their tastes. (Well, yes I do know, but I'll leave it to others to figure out. )

I'm sure it'll play well in grade-school circles, though. I mean, calling someone named "Haynes" as "Gays"? That's a knee-slapper! :roll:

However, I think (good) satire is founded on deeper foundations than near-rhymes to "teh [email protected]".

Newgrounds.com, however? Hells yeah funny, for the most part: the cream rises to the top.

- m


----------



## Ed (Mar 13, 2006)

Markleford @ Mon Mar 13 said:


> Ed @ Mon Mar 13 said:
> 
> 
> > And why not, it was very funny.
> ...



Its obviously meant to be silly, man with no sence of humour. In fact the sillyness, the fact its scrappy drawings adds to effect. Clearly you are one that does not really understand the history of the characters, if you did perhaps you'd find it more amusing.

I feel sad for you.

Edit: Oh its you Markleford, well you are working for Gary. Hmm, I wonder why you didnt like it I wonder.

Ed


----------



## navidson (Mar 13, 2006)

Right, Markleford works for Gary in the same way that everyone banned from NorthernSounds worked for East West or was a dupilcate account of Nick Phoenix. Hello irony!


----------



## navidson (Mar 13, 2006)

Well shut my mouth. But you can kinda sorta see the point I was trying to make there, right? Yes? No? 

Ok, nevermind, but you're doing a good job of clarifying my stance here Ed. Anyway, I've said far too much on the matter, so this is me shutting up.

Shutting up...

Now!


----------



## Ed (Mar 13, 2006)

navidson @ Mon Mar 13 said:


> Well shut my mouth. But you can kinda sorta see the point I was trying to make there, right? Yes? No?


Well...I know what it _was _yes, but you only said that becuase you thought I was just accusing anyone that doesnt agree with me as working for Gary, but seeing as how no one was doing it its not really relevant. 



> Ok, nevermind, but you're doing a good job of clarifying my stance here Ed. Anyway, I've said far too much on the matter, so this is me shutting up.


hehe. Thats okay navidson, we cant all be right all the time. I just had to take advantage this time that I was so very _very _right.  

Ed


----------



## Markleford (Mar 13, 2006)

Ed @ Mon Mar 13 said:


> So, haha. Excuse me while I dance a merry victory jig. Its not very often Im right so spectacularly. :lol:


Spectacular? Congrats on the brain-trust detective work, Ed: it's *only* been plastered on my web site for the past two years. :roll: 8) I guess they're right: even a broken watch is correct twice a day! 

Though I suppose you have victory-jig rights over navidson, poor lad. 

As full disclosure, I've also done or am doing contract work, beta, sound content, and third-party code modules for:

- Cakewalk
- iZotope
- Bitshift Audio/GlareSoft
- Camel Audio
- Brainspawn
- Submersible Sound
- ConcreteFX
- Extreme Sample Converter
- Dash/NUSofting
- FXpansion

I suppose if others have a beef with those developers too, they should also feel free to find any of my *personal* opinions as *somehow* representing some other entity and not my own! :roll: :roll: :roll: (<-- pardon while I emphasise the absurdity)

Or not. Hopefully most people "get" that independent contractors are indeed "independent" and only represent themselves. Hell, even full-time employees should have their own say, but then there are these bullshit legal cases with corporations firing people for personal blogs!

Back to "humor", though, which was my point...

Patrick is right that the humor is probably even strained with most of the populace: my comment is more upon the author's estimation of VI readers, which obviously isn't very high. (And for the record, Patrick, chocothrax is one funny guy in my book.)

Yes, I'm familiar with the history of the characters. I have no reason to defend Houston in particular (as we've personally clashed many times over his dogmatic views), but I *do* chafe at the latent homophobia in the guise of "humor", as much as I'd roll my eyes at "Joe Nigger" and "Frank Kike". I'm not one to tow the PC line, though I'll admit to being sensitive on the issue (due to problems friends have had with chuckleheaded bigots), but at least I can point out juvenile tastelessness when I see it. Apparently you can't.

But I suppose there's room in this world for people whose sense of humor never advanced past dick and fart jokes. 

"I feel sad for you!" :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Rock on, hombre.

- m


----------



## Thonex (Mar 13, 2006)

Markleford @ Mon Mar 13 said:


> As full *disclosure*, I've also done or am doing contract work, beta, sound content, and third-party code modules for:
> 
> - Cakewalk
> - iZotope
> ...



Dude  

I hope you're not breaking like 10 *Non* Disclosure Agrements by posting this :shock: :lol: :lol: 

T


----------



## Markleford (Mar 13, 2006)

Nah, many of those are already delivered (ain't NDA material anymore when you get a thanks in the manual or about-box!) or didn't have a formal NDA (work for comp/NFR), or otherwise non-restrictive in mentioning anything non-IP or trade-secret (aka: _"I could tell you more, but then I'd have to kill you..."_).

(Of course I didn't list the tighter NDAs in progress or pending! Ssshhhhh...)

Though I did have to play the Jedi "this is not the unreleased software you're looking for" mind-trick a few times with my brother when he visited while I was working. 

- m


----------



## handz (Mar 13, 2006)

http://foshata.com/?fsh=HLT (just boring morning at work....)


----------



## autopilot (Mar 13, 2006)

^^^

hahah


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 14, 2006)

handz @ Tue Mar 14 said:


> http://foshata.com/?fsh=HLT (just boring morning at work....)




MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## JacquesMathias (Mar 14, 2006)

I think they lost a guy with a huge talent creativity and musicality. Even if he said something wrong (apparently it wasn't the case) they should forgive. What makes a forum interesting and a knowledge source? Guys like Craig. :wink: But if NS is just a advertisement environment, like some ones has said, it's bad. Of course, everybody needs money, i don't see nothing wrong with making business in a forum...come on...But, democracy still is a nice concept. Freedom to talk, and not agree with all, obviously through a educated and polited way. Maybe it's the time to NS re-think about their concepts, as far as know there is anyone against them...Hey guys lets be friends and discuss what we all love , music and sample libraries! (some girls, of course). :smile: 

Best to all!


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Mar 14, 2006)

Hi Jacques,

What I am about to say is not news to most people here, but I think it should be mentioned anyway.

In the post banning me I was told "You are a moderator of a competing forum". This is apparantly how they viewed me, not as a poster trying to converse with other members. They had to find a way to get rid of me. While this forum does not compete with anything, it's draw of members pulls from NS and the potential for money to be earned from NS advertising is hit directly. Also since all products are allowed to exist here, it can potentially take sales away from developers who advertise at NS. This is probably why they see VI as competition.

NS's relevency as "The Place" for sample people basically ended when EW left. It has been a steady exodus since by developers who wish to converse with their own user base without the middle man, their users and people being banned. This leaves very few developers left to help pay for what was once" the" vibrant place. It also means the dollars that are still left coming in become more valuable and the wills of these developers have more influence on what goes on at NS. Whether NS could have found a way to work things out with EW, I don't know, but the attitude on the forum banning members on a regular basis escalated soon after EW's departure and subsequent banning.

I believe NS will continue to be a choice for musicians to go to, but will not return to it's glory days. Those who left will not return, and NS has only it's old reputation alone, along with the few developers left to help bring in new members. 

The "sad" part as to quote the person who banned me, is even after EW's departure, most of this could still have been avoided if everyone was still allowed to have a voice there.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 14, 2006)

navidson/zircon/King:

I think you guys don't quite get how upsetting some of us find this. It's not immaturity or petty bitching, it's venting. You can't do that on NS.

I should add that this isn't a competing forum in any way. Virtually everyone here who hasn't been banned from NS has been there as well.


----------

