# $99 orchestra



## Mike Marino (Feb 7, 2015)

Has anybody else heard about this $99 Orchestra?

http://www.99dollarorchestra.com/#meltdown-tour

EDIT: Kickstarter opened for it. Find out all of the information here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1592127308/the-99-orchestra-an-orchestra-for-everyone

Basically, it's a 7 minute recording session aimed at recording 30s to 1:30. 30 musicians. So, I'm assuming you'd get a couple practice runs, record (once or twice), and you're done.

Instrumentation options that they're looking at include:
* Fl (picc), Ob, Cl in Bb, 3 trumpets, 4 horns, 2 trombones, 1 Bass Trombone, 17 Strings
* Fl (picc), 2 trumpets, 4 horns, 2 trombones, 1 Bass Trombone, 20 Strings
* 3 trumpets, 6 horns, 2 trombones, 1 bass trombone, 18 Strings
* 8 horns, 4 trombones, 1 bass trombone, 17 Strings
* 1 Fl (picc), 2 trumpets, 2 horns, 25 Strings

* also the option of trading out an instrument for grand piano

OK.....SO.....this is not something you're probably going to be using for a project. BUT......for those of us starting out.....who want to learn more about orchestration and how our music really sounds compared to samples (especially if your template isn't very good).......doesn't this seem like a good option?

Will the quality be the greatest? Probably not. BUT.....if I can write and orchestrate a piece, put it on paper, send it to real musicians, have them play it back and record......for $99......I've gotten more information and knowledge from my findings than any sample library that could be bought for the same money. Or am I wrong on this???

Would love some conversation on this so fire away.


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Feb 7, 2015)

I saw this not long ago, I reposted it on Facebook. It is as you say a fantastic opportunity to get used to working with live orchestre. For $99 it's an opportunity to get a piece that has way more realism than Mural or Berlin Strings for a fraction of the price, admittedly you can't reuse it but it's more about the experience than the actual product. For once, a composer can hear their music come to life in the hands of real musicians for an accessible price!

I think it's also a great thing because it promotes real musicians. Once you hear live musicians performing your music, samples never sound the same and you learn the importance of live musicians, at least in my opinion.

I will be taking this opportunity too.


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## Mike Marino (Feb 7, 2015)

> admittedly you can't reuse it


Can't reuse what? Oh, the orchestra (like you could a sample library for the same money)?

Btw, I believe this is the orchestra that they'll use, just 30 musicians though:
http://www.wesorchestra.com/the-orchestra/


Luciano, I think you're right; it does push for live musicians. I doubt you'd get stems of the recording, but it's not about that. It's the lessons you'd learn in orchestrating, the balance (as YOU'VE written) and how that REALLY sounds as compared to the way you'd program something. It's not about the sounds; it's about the balance which stems vastly from the orchestration of the piece.

Unless I can find a reason not to take part, I think I'll be in on trying this out.


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## Kralc (Feb 7, 2015)

Seems pretty cool to me, no reason not to do it for practice really.

More standard setups would be cool though. I'd rather have 30 strings than those tpts and horns.
And I think anyone who's going for the 8 horns, 4 tbns, etc... setup is going to have some pretty exhausting "epic-trailer" style stuff, I wouldn't want to follow that.


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## Mike Marino (Feb 7, 2015)

Kralc, totally agree. And for all I know, having 30 strings (if you've written only for strings) may very well end up being an option, too.


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## bryla (Feb 7, 2015)

Having my Music performed helped me a thousand times more than any book so I would suggest anyone take the opportunities they get at recording.


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## lucianogiacomozzi (Feb 7, 2015)

Mike Marino @ Sat 07 Feb said:


> > admittedly you can't reuse it
> 
> 
> Can't reuse what? Oh, the orchestra (like you could a sample library for the same money)?
> ...



Yeah, I meant in terms of using it repeatedly like a sample library. 

It is exactly that, Mike. Learning the natural balance between instruments of an orchestra, learning what's possible and with what, I think we tend to get wrapped up in sample libraries these days thinking we can do all these strange things, pushing the dynamics up on the top note of the horns, pp flutes at the highest end of the range and ff at the lowest. Plus you get a live piece to show for it.


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## Mike Marino (Feb 7, 2015)

Thanks Thomas and Luciano. Those are my thoughts as well.


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## Lassi Tani (Feb 11, 2015)

The campaign is now open:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/15 ... r-everyone


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## stevetwist (Feb 11, 2015)

This is an extremely interesting opportunity. I'm definitely going to check out their kickstarter campaign. Thanks for sharing!

Steve


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## inmusi (Feb 11, 2015)

It states that for the 30 piece orchestra, the string section # is 17. I'm a little confused by this... Does this mean we can pick any arrangement of violins/violas/celli/bass so long at there are 17 total?


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## MA-Simon (Feb 11, 2015)

I would rather have something like only 4-5 players. 
Or just the small string section.

Edit: Oh I see. You CAN send in an audio file or just you playing the piano, they will make all the notation stuff for you, but then you will only get 15 musicians. But still. For 99$,I would totaly get me that for my birthday!


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## JohnG (Feb 11, 2015)

inmusi @ 11th February 2015 said:


> It states that for the 30 piece orchestra, the string section # is 17. I'm a little confused by this... Does this mean we can pick any arrangement of violins/violas/celli/bass so long at there are 17 total?



It would be unlikely to get whatever choice you want. 

With 17 strings, I would guess 1 bass, 3 celli, 4 violas, 4 second violins, and 5 first violins.

If they are very good, that is enough to get a nice sound. If they are students it may sound more weedy but still one would learn something.

In seven minutes' orchestra time, I would not try for more than about a minute of actual final piece length.


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## Mike Marino (Feb 11, 2015)

> It states that for the 30 piece orchestra, the string section # is 17. I'm a little confused by this... Does this mean we can pick any arrangement of violins/violas/celli/bass so long at there are 17 total?



INSTRUMENTATION

Conductor

1 flute (picc), 1 Oboe, 1 Clarinet in b flat, 1 Bassoon

2 Trumpets, 4 French Horns, 2 Trombones, 1 Bass Trombone

17 Strings (5,4,3,4,1)

Here's the rest of the info:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1592127308/the-99-orchestra-an-orchestra-for-everyone


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## Mike Marino (Feb 11, 2015)

Also:

You can use the recording for all non-commercial purposes, including portfolio usage, self-promotion, educational purposes and work for charity. For commercial use, a supplemental fee is applicable, off kickstarter. Please contact [email protected]


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## stevetwist (Feb 11, 2015)

And on the note of commercial use of the recording, I emailed Andre, and he said that the fee for commercial use is 100% of the session cost. So, if you pay for a $99 session, the commercial-use fee is an additional $99.

Steve


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## jaeroe (Feb 11, 2015)

It's a great idea, but that brass section is way overkill for the size of the string section, especially. I would do 1 trp, 2 hr, 1 trb/bs trb, and bs trb/tba and ditch the rest of the brass for 4 more strings. the brass listed is for a normal full orchestra with a full string sect and double winds (minus tuba).

In adding more strings, I would also go for largest numbers with V1 reducing 1 per section. in a recording situation, in need be i'd do 1 cb with Vc's doubling 8va to keep the high sections larger in numbers - better balance.

with only 7 minutes, balance will be key.

I've done a good amount of recording with 15-25 strings. definitely don't want that big a brass section if you're not overdubbing the strings. I wouldn't get too fancy (small string section, don't go divisi) - keep it straight forward and you'll learn more.


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## arielblacksmith (Feb 11, 2015)

jaeroe @ Thu Feb 12 said:


> It's a great idea, but that brass section is way overkill for the size of the string section, especially. I would do 1 trp, 2 hr, 1 trb/bs trb, and bs trb/tba and ditch the rest of the brass for 4 more strings. the brass listed is for a normal full orchestra with a full string sect and double winds (minus tuba).
> 
> In adding more strings, I would also go for largest numbers with V1 reducing 1 per section. in a recording situation, in need be i'd do 1 cb with Vc's doubling 8va to keep the high sections larger in numbers - better balance.
> 
> ...




So if im thinking of giving the melody to 1st violin (main) , 2nd violin and violas (one octave lower) , would the brass ( using the french horn in divisi) be still overkill and drown the melody? first time I would write for real ensemble, so Im really thinking about it!


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## jaeroe (Feb 12, 2015)

arielblacksmith @ Thu Feb 12 said:


> So if im thinking of giving the melody to 1st violin (main) , 2nd violin and violas (one octave lower) , would the brass ( using the french horn in divisi) be still overkill and drown the melody? first time I would write for real ensemble, so Im really thinking about it!



One can always figure out a way around something, but if you want to get the experience of 'this is how this is generally done', that brass section is out of balance - too big. The brass section they mention is customary for a string section of 40-50 strings. I've had to do with 30 and you can, but you have to be careful.

if you're putting all of your hi strings on the melody - vlns 1+2 unison and vla 8vb, that will give them more body and certainly help. but, you want to make sure they're in a range where they can speak over whatever the brass are doing (good to get vlns off the staff, vla's towards to top end of the treble cleff and maybe heading off the staff for loud sections). and it sounds like your brass will be providing the bulk of the harmony/accompaniment. winds that size against brass that size - the winds will be useful for little flourishes, etc. or something exposed. i'd keep my brass shorter/less sustained to allow for everything else to be heard. i would also not unleash the brass full tilt dynamically, or maybe right at the end (last bar or two).

also keep in mind that you don't have to have everyone playing at every instant. in orchestration, dynamics are often best handled by the use of instrumentation - meaning hold some instruments back in quieter sections then add instruments in as the dynamics start to increase. so, i would definitely consider NOT having the heavy brass (trp, trbns) playing the whole time, or at least not having all the brass playing all the time.

re your comment about the horn - generally with brass, 2 horns = 1 trp/trp at mf or above. writing for horns in pairs is very common.

for what it is worth - nowadays in film and tv, if you get a budget for live players at all, 30 players is pretty damned good. the largest studio films get big orchestras, sure, but they are the exception now, not the rule. there are plenty of studio projects now where 2 days with 30-40 pieces is all you'll get. with indie film 30 pieces for 1 day is relatively rare. unless you're writing a lot of big trailer music or big game music, i'd say you'd get a lot more practical experience writing for a smaller brass section (1 trp, 2 hrn, trb+ bs trb, or trb+ tba) and having more strings.

i think it is best to understand orchestration in a historical context. you can learn a lot from the big name composers and what they had. 17 strings is a classical era orchestra. mozart and haydn didn't use trombones in symphonies (oratorio and opera, yes). trumpets were used sparingly with the timpani for accents in tutti sections. beethoven starts to add more as time goes on, and as he does the strings section is generally getting larger. the winds are single or double winds.

there are a lot of different factors that went into that, but the balance of the strings and winds against the size of the brass is clear to see throughout music history. and haydn, mozart, and beethoven very often complained about not having enough strings!


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## RiffWraith (Feb 12, 2015)

jaeroe @ Thu Feb 12 said:


> It's a great idea, but that brass section is way overkill for the size of the string section, especially.



Agreed. Tho, it can in fact work well, depending on the orchestration, and the way the mics are set up. But I do agree with your "1 trp, 2 hr, 1 trb/bs trb, and bs trb/tba and ditch the rest of the brass for 4 more strings" idea - assuming they allow you to make that type of alteration.

Cheers.


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## Kralc (Feb 12, 2015)

Yeah, I wish the setup was a little different too. 
If it was just 30 strings that I could practice with (and continually, maybe doing another 7mins here and there in the future) I'd be so damn happy.

But hey, it's 99 bucks. I ain't complaining.


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## Mike Marino (Feb 12, 2015)

I'd imagine that IF they hit their Kickstarter goal and continue on that more options would be available in the future. They sent out a polling email not long ago (last week?) for folks who were on their mailing list asking about ensemble size options, what people wanted.....trading instruments for piano and/or voice, etc. So I think it is what it is for the moment.....but will hopefully change should the project hit its goal.


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## muk (Feb 13, 2015)

Yeah, it's a slightly particular setup. I hope they reach their kickstarter mark and can offer more flexible setups later on. If they had double woodwinds instead of some of the brass I'd be booking a session for sure.


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## Mike Marino (Feb 13, 2015)

They made mention in the comments of their kickstarter page that they'll be expanding their instrumentation options should they reach their funding goal.


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## Lassi Tani (Feb 23, 2015)

MA-Simon @ 11/2/2015 said:


> I would rather have something like only 4-5 players.
> Or just the small string section.
> 
> Edit: Oh I see. You CAN send in an audio file or just you playing the piano, they will make all the notation stuff for you, but then you will only get 15 musicians. But still. For 99$,I would totaly get me that for my birthday!



Yeah same came into my mind. I'm intrigued to send something totally crap, and see how they orchestrate it. :D Oh well, maybe it's a better opportunity for learning orchestration, so I should send a score. I really hope they will reach their goal.


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## Mike Marino (Mar 7, 2015)

Goal for the kickstarter was $40,000.

With 5 days left they've hit their mark!


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## arielblacksmith (Mar 7, 2015)

Yes! now I "just" need to create the score :D

first time writing for orchestra, im excited!


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## Justus (Mar 9, 2015)

I am happy, that they've reached their goal.
Will take this opportunity as well!


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## Mike Marino (Mar 9, 2015)

4 days left and have surpassed their goal by $2,000.


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## Mike Marino (Mar 12, 2015)

16 hours left. Kickstarter goal was $40,000. Currently at $55,000.


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