# String runs?



## MusiquedeReve (Sep 14, 2021)

As I am still a newbie when it comes to programming strings in MIDI, I am having a heck of a time trying to figure out how to do a run using strings to have a build up -- almost like a riser

Does anyone know of any tutorial or website where I can get a look at the MIDI for such?

Or, is the consensus to purchase a VST such as Orchestral String Runs? 

Also, is there a VST where I could use my existing string library to create those types of runs or does that lead me back to my initial question of trying to figure out the MIDI for it?

Thank you and be well


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Sep 14, 2021)

Those are usually done with a specific riser sample.
Effects libraries like Symphobia, CAGE Strings, Sonokinetic's Tutti, etc will have options for that.
Or sometimes general string libraries include something similar in their Effects category, like Sunset Strings has "Spread Rise", which is a really long organic riser, while Spitfire Symphonic Strings Violins 1 FX has a quicker, more "horror" style riser.

EDIT: Whoops I guess my dyslexia thought the thread was about risers.


----------



## Zedcars (Sep 14, 2021)

MorphineNoir said:


> As I am still a newbie when it comes to programming strings in MIDI, I am having a heck of a time trying to figure out how to do a run using strings to have a build up -- almost like a riser
> 
> Does anyone know of any tutorial or website where I can get a look at the MIDI for such?
> 
> ...


The MIDI only gets you so far — it’s more important to have a patch that lends itself well to runs in the first place otherwise you will always feel like you are trying to polish a turd.

First of all, actual recorded runs would be the best choice. If the right scale can be manipulated (eg time-stretched) to fit to your tempo then without obvious artefacts then go this route. Some libraries have these (eg VSL Orchestral Strings 1 from their older Symphonic Cube VI package). Sonokinetic have Modal Runs which are ok, except there aren’t any chromatic runs included. [Edit: There are chromatic runs in SMR]

If you can’t find any recorded runs that will fit, you’ll need to choose a good legato patch that can deal with faster lines. VSL have an auto-speed detector which works well.

Now the MIDI: You’d need to overlap each note with the next, probably have a slight emphasis on the first note, and depending on the style and context, usually have a slight (or more obvious) crescendo into the last note using CC1 with optional CC11. The last note can be (but not always) a staccato or marcato articulation which helps end the phrase cleanly.

Sometimes it may be worth doubling the notes with another articulation, or with another library. If you have a good similar solo string patch preferably recorded in the same room or that blends well with the string group patch then it can help with clarity and realism to double the phrase with that too. Just make sure it is not too prominent in the mix.

Finally, I’d say that runs are something I think everyone has struggled with when they first try because, without recorded runs, they are quite hard to make them convincing.

I’m by no means an expert so please take my views with a pinch of salt.

Edit: I should also add that runs can be staccato/spiccato as well as legato and the VSL library I mentioned above includes both.


----------



## doctoremmet (Sep 15, 2021)

For string runs as part of a broader strings library I can only think of Chris Hein, which offers cool options for glissandi. A fantastic entry point in that universe would be his CH Strings Compact.










Chris Hein Strings Compact | Best Service | bestservice.com


Chris Hein Strings Compact | compact size | nine most common and important articulations | violins | cellos | violas | basses | solo instruments | 14 ensembles | EN




www.bestservice.com







(Glide Mode 5m26s).

For actual orchestral risers, 8Dio offer tons of options in their Hybrid Tools range. Symphonic Shadows may have what you’re looking for - next to a whole slew of other aleatoric effects?


----------



## Nimrod7 (Sep 15, 2021)

Modern Scoring Strings have also runs that can lock to scales and modes on various intervals.

they have recoded ones too:


----------



## alcorey (Sep 15, 2021)

Take a look at Red Room Audios Palette series - runs & arps _ you can drag and drop the midi files into any other library in your daw and they offer a combo of strings and woodwinds - nice stuff!! I'm waiting patiently, hoping they'll have a sale for Black Friday. I have their Traveler - Gypsy Fiddle and absolutely love it









Palette - Runs & Arps - Red Room Audio


The most complete orchestral runs & arps library available! Features both strings and woodwinds ensembles performing scales in 6 common modes, each with up to 13 variations, plus 20 kinds of arpeggios. Over 1600 unscripted, real recorded phrases in total! 3 microphone positions, an 8-slot...



redroomaudio.com


----------



## GtrString (Sep 15, 2021)

Sonokinetic Modal Runs also has drag & drop midi for runs (the only one with modes). ProjectSam have some great options for traditional runs. However, you can also just step record your own runs, and have fun with intervals and articulations. Lots of ways to do it..

Edit: This isn't implemented in Modal Runs (yet).. I was too fast there


----------



## doctoremmet (Sep 15, 2021)

I think @Sonokinetic BV confirmed their upcoming orchestral strings library will have the capability to do (MIDI based) runs and add some drag and drop functionality? Calling @muziksculp


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Sep 15, 2021)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Those are usually done with a specific riser sample.
> Effects libraries like Symphobia, CAGE Strings, Sonokinetic's Tutti, etc will have options for that.
> Or sometimes general string libraries include something similar in their Effects category, like Sunset Strings has "Spread Rise", which is a really long organic riser, while Spitfire Symphonic Strings Violins 1 FX has a quicker, more "horror" style riser.
> 
> EDIT: Whoops I guess my dyslexia thought the thread was about risers.


It originally was about risers then I changed it to runs before anyone responded - are you a time traveler 




Zedcars said:


> The MIDI only gets you so far — it’s more important to have a patch that lends itself well to runs in the first place otherwise you will always feel like you are trying to polish a turd.
> 
> First of all, actual recorded runs would be the best choice. If the right scale can be manipulated (eg time-stretched) to fit to your tempo then without obvious artefacts then go this route. Some libraries have these (eg VSL Orchestral Strings 1 from their older Symphonic Cube VI package). Sonokinetic have Modal Runs which are ok, except there aren’t any chromatic runs included.
> 
> ...


Ahhhh ok, thank you - so it seems as if sampled runs are the way to go -- I thought that perhaps I was jsut dim-witted for not being able to figure it out using MIDI



doctoremmet said:


> For string runs as part of a broader strings library I can only think of Chris Hein, which offers cool options for glissandi. A fantastic entry point in that universe would be his CH Strings Compact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I will check those out - thanks Doc




Nimrod7 said:


> Modern Scoring Strings have also runs that can lock to scales and modes on various intervals.
> 
> they have recoded ones too:



Will check that out as well




alcorey said:


> Take a look at Red Room Audios Palette series - runs & arps _ you can drag and drop the midi files into any other library in your daw and they offer a combo of strings and woodwinds - nice stuff!! I'm waiting patiently, hoping they'll have a sale for Black Friday. I have their Traveler - Gypsy Fiddle and absolutely love it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ohhhh ok I like the MIDI drag feature



GtrString said:


> Sonokinetic Modal Runs also has drag & drop midi for runs (the only one with modes). ProjectSam have some great options for traditional runs. However, you can also just step record your own runs, and have fun with intervals and articulations. Lots of ways to do it..


WOW I am so glad I posted this thread - expanding my horizons


----------



## Gingerbread (Sep 15, 2021)

This may be of interest as well, when you want to design your own string runs, but have them sound very realistic:


----------



## dhmusic (Sep 15, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> This may be of interest as well, when you want to design your own string runs, but have them sound very realistic:



+1

Try using what you have before going out and buying anything. Chances are you'll have to implement this stuff anyway.


----------



## Rex282 (Sep 15, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> . Sonokinetic have Modal Runs which are ok, except there aren’t any chromatic runs included.
> 
> .......you can make chromatic runs in modal runs


----------



## Zedcars (Sep 15, 2021)

@Rex282


> .......you can make chromatic runs in modal runs


I actually read SMR didn’t have them from another user on here but he didn’t say you could make them. Thanks for correcting me. I wanted to buy SMR but when I read that it put me off. I’d better put a strike through in my post so I don’t cause anyone else to be misinformed.


----------



## Marsen (Oct 15, 2021)

@alcorey they do have a separate sale right now 70% off.


----------



## quickbrownf0x (Oct 15, 2021)

Marsen said:


> @alcorey they do have a separate sale right now 70% off.


@Markrs enters the chat>


----------



## ism (Oct 15, 2021)

+1 for Sonokinetic modal runs. (Which are reasonably likely to be on a pretty good sale either on BF or their Christmas sale).


----------



## Alchemedia (Oct 15, 2021)

Nico on Phrase Libraries and Copyright Strikes


----------



## handz (Oct 15, 2021)

Why is nobody mentioning OT string runs? Loved this library since day one


----------



## RonOrchComp (Oct 15, 2021)

handz said:


> Why is nobody mentioning OT string runs? Loved this library since day one


Cinestrings runs, too.


----------



## handz (Oct 15, 2021)

RonOrchComp said:


> Cinestrings runs, too.


Wow. Completely forgot about it


----------



## alcorey (Oct 15, 2021)

Marsen said:


> @alcorey they do have a separate sale right now 70% off.


Thanks Marsen.....picked them up!


----------



## Nimrod7 (Nov 9, 2021)

I am wondering if anyone had success writing very fast runs like the example below.



I had tried VSL, MSS, CineStrings Runs so far but no success, at least they don't sound convincing. Probably lack of my skills to properly tame the libraries.

Any advice will be appreciated.


----------



## Trash Panda (Nov 9, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> I am wondering if anyone had success writing very fast runs like the example below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you find the examples in this video convincing?


----------



## Nimrod7 (Nov 9, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Do you find the examples in this video convincing?



Thanks! That's great, I can get started trying some of the techniques in the video.
And thanks to @secondtiersound too!


----------



## Rossy (Nov 9, 2021)

This made me start saving for action strings 2, It's a bit long (2 hours) but you get a very detailed look into it.


----------



## TonalDynamics (Dec 12, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> Modern Scoring Strings have also runs that can lock to scales and modes on various intervals.
> 
> they have recoded ones too:



This might just be me being a musical snob, but I don't think those runs sound very convincing at all, and it's naught to do with their programming/playing - those notes look like they are in 'perfect' legato style overlap to me.

It just sounds like a string patch being played on a keyboard without real run transitions or bowing... you could get string run sounds like this ten years ago 🤷🏼‍♂️

If there was a final argument to convince me to buy MSS, this one isn't it

For now, I'll stick with my trusty CSS Marcato SPICC. overlay patches + modwheel rides - not only sounds good, but FUN way to track string runs with great dynamics!


----------



## Maxfabian (Dec 12, 2021)

MorphineNoir said:


> Orchestral String Runs?


To me OST is great even though it was released quite a long time ago. I use it a lot and I'm really super happy about it. Here is a track where I used OSR pretty much.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Dec 12, 2021)

There's this oldie here:


----------

