# Blackhawk Down scoring questions... Art versus Money



## dpasdernick (May 14, 2013)

I just watched this Youtube video about Hans Zimmer scoring Blackhawk Down and had a few comments and questions. There's some amazing footage of him and his "tribe" just jamming on the oddest pieces. He admits he is "going out to the edge" and not "wanting to repeat himself". I guess my question is who pays for all of this? I assume he's given a lump sum to score a film and if he can do it on a Casio by himself he gets to pocket all of the money. But watching this video it's obvious he has hired some pretty talented dudes whom I assume cost a few bucks. Sitting in an expensive studio while they wail away brainstorming seems like it would add up quickly.

Does someone in Hans' position have an estimator or project manager that says to him "Dude, you're about to be making minimum wage on this puppy if you don't wrap up a few cues? When the one guitar player is trying to channel Hendrix in the video is Hans sitting in the corner going "well there goes my Rolls Royce" or is he saying "dang that's some clever stuff"? Obviously he is a very successful composer and probably could stand to spend a few extra bucks pushing the envelope. So I suppose he would keep pushing knowing he never cut any corners and the response to his contribution on the film would be rewarded with more films (that hopefully involved just a Casio ). So for the rest of you pros here at VI do you ever have to finally shut it down, cut corners, compromise the art in order to feed the kids, pay the mortgage? Or do you just put every single nickel back into the project to make it perfect and tell the family that all of the cool kids live under an overpass and wrestle people for food?

Just curious. The whole "getting paid for your art" has always perplexed me as once someone offers you money that somehow allows their girlfriend/daughter/Ouija board to give an opinion on the music and that may drive you into the poor house or madhouse sooner than later.

Darren

PS If anyone wants to insinuate that the title of this thread was a brazen attempt to summon Hans himself... well duh! 

PSS the soundtrack to Blackhawk Down is truly an inspiration. 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gU2Rc2Fcs0


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## Mike Marino (May 14, 2013)

That's a great interview video. Love the score as well.


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## Rctec (May 15, 2013)

Blackhawk Down was ludicrously expensive. But we had nothing but support from the studio and our director. Because if you have a concept, an idea, it becomes irresistible.

But let me tell you a story....early in my career, when my wife was first pregnant, I asked a producer what my fee would be for their movie. They said "we're not telling you. If we tell you, you'll just put it all into the music, and you have some other responsibilities now". Well, when the thing was finished, they made sure I could pay the rent and feed my family. That's on the whole the type of people I had the honor of working with. I still put it all into the music, I could be a lot wealthier, and I have good people looking after me. Sometimes it's for nothing, sometimes it's a lot. I am reckless, but nit foolish. 
I ran into the very wise and amazing Mo Austin at the airport recently (if you don't know who he is, look him up!) we where chatting, and he said "always follow the music, never follow the money". That's The Rule!
Oh, my other rule is...a synth can buy you a house, but a house can't buy you a synth...my accountant never quite agreed. But, seriously, I try to look ahead. Building our studio, or the sample library and a sampler to go with it means we are fairly self-sufficient. So I can take on any project, free of having to constrain my creativity by worrying about being able to deliver something that at least sounds half-decent.


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## musophrenic (May 15, 2013)

Rctec @ Wed May 15 said:


> Because if you have a concept, an idea, it becomes irresistible.



So you've been carrying out inception 9 years before Chris put out a movie about it?!


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## dpasdernick (May 15, 2013)

Hans,

Everything you do sonic-wise, to me, is a masterpiece. But I think the real reason you are as successful as you are is that you are an incredibly grounded, decent human. I watched a clip of you on the Gladiator DVD talking about wanting to call Ridley Scott saying "I can't do this". There's no ego, no alpha male. You always seemed to be honored to do what you are doing. As you said a house can't by you a synth but a synth can't buy you character either. 

Thank you for being such an inspiration as a composer and a great person.

Sincerely,

Darren


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## Kejero (May 15, 2013)

Oh boy, I wish all producers had that attitude (and, of course, the means to support it  ).

But I guess I can only agree with that point of view from the composer's perspective. Being somewhat at the bottom of the composer food chain, I'm in the ironically luxurious position where music isn't my main source of income. Which at one hand is a pity, but it does allow me not to _treat_ my nusic like a source of income. I haven't done a whole lot of projects, but on every single one I've pretty much spent all the budget there was on the production of the music and walked away without a dime in my own pocket. Those budgets were of course -- as they tend to be on this side of the food chain -- pretty low to begin with, but still, it's a matter of priorities. I've been in a place where life was comfortable and financially secure, but with little time for writing music. And I've been unemployed, broke, but spending every day writing and learning. Both situations were extremely shitty, but I'd pick the second one any time.

It's a priority I don't quite understand rationally myself, but being able to create music is something that has an extremely high value to me, and as I've found through experience, more than financial wealth. It's the attitude of many a broke, struggling artist in any art I suppose, but it's great to know that at the top of the food chain some people still have the same attitude.
One could argue that when you already are in a financially comfortable position that it's easy to throw those large budgets at that kind of experimentation without having to sacrifice your next Rolls Royce. But while I believe many A-list composers put their heart into every score, I don't get the impression that they all put as much effort (and chunk of the budget) into the exploration of their sonic textures as we see Hans do in all those DVD extras and YouTube behind-the-scenes.

It's an attitude that I applaud, and yes, since we all know that Hans is reading these threads (or a 14-year-old kid who's pretending to be HZ, we'll never know!), you may all call me a kiss-ass now


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## dgburns (May 15, 2013)

Nice thread.Nice answers as well.

One thing to remember is that this is an Ideas-based profession,and every film lives in it's own space.It becomes important to discover new sonic territories,and to find novel ways of discovering the sonic landscape of the film you have in front of you.It puts alot of nervous energy at the beginning of the project,and one of the best ways to unleash that,is to involve many talented people to help out.Cost is important,but remember that there is also residual income that can be substantial should the film be successful.Multiply that times 100,and some composers can create quite a legacy for themselves and their dependents

You can't value your work simply from the upfront money.And how to put a price on a great idea that has you seeing music in an entirely fresh and new light?

priceless imho


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