# Midi keyboard with expression pedal input



## Paul Owen (Dec 27, 2016)

Hey guys, 

as per the title do any of you know if there is a relatively cheap midi keyboard with an expression pedal input? OR if there is any kind of work around to use an expression pedal for modulation (string/brass swells etc). I'm using Logic Pro X at the moment. 

(Apologies if this has been covered in another thread). 

Paulo


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## synthpunk (Dec 27, 2016)

I would look at Nektar come in various keyboard lengths, styles and options.


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## markleake (Dec 27, 2016)

Yes Nektar have an assignable expression pedal jack on most of their keyboards. I have the Panorama P6 but don't use it, as I don't like the keyboard feel. The controllers on it are also hard to manage and I find get in the way and make the keyboard too big for what I want - in short, the P6 is too complicated for me to be usable. I never had an expression pedal to use with it, so didn't try out that feature, even though I did want one quite badly. It's just the experience with the keyboard that was the blocker for me.

I've since replaced it with a Korg microKey2 61 and a Korg nanoControl2. Both are excellent and take up much less space. The nonoControl allows me to control multiple CCs at once, with a very easy to use and easy to position control surface. I'd still like an expression pedal but not anywhere as much as before, given that even with an expression pedal you still need to adjust other CCs also, and the nanoControl does that very well for me.

I just wish there were USB expression pedals on the market. It's silly that there are so many expression pedal products out there, but none are USB.


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## Vastman (Dec 27, 2016)

This will take care of all your dreams...
http://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php

BTW, most necktar kbds don't have expression


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## markleake (Dec 27, 2016)

Vastman said:


> BTW, most necktar kbds don't have expression


Correct... I just check on their website, so my bad... only the P4 and P6 have expression.


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## LamaRose (Dec 27, 2016)

Just ordered my second Microkey air... the 49 key model. Great little controllers. The air uses bluetooth or usb. The MicroKey 2 models only use usb, but are a little cheaper.


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## markleake (Dec 27, 2016)

Vastman said:


> This will take care of all your dreams...
> http://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php


There are a few other similar options available also, like:

http://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Accessories/Midi-Foot-Controllers/FCB1010/p/P0089

But all the options are less than ideal. Behringer's pedal isn't very good quality and isn't just a single foot controller, and the Audiofront option isn't something I can buy locally.

Sorry to derail your thread @Paul Owen.


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## markleake (Dec 27, 2016)

LamaRose said:


> Just ordered my second Microkey air... the 49 key model. Great little controllers. The air uses bluetooth or usb. The MicroKey 2 models only use usb, but are a little cheaper.


The Korg micro/nano stuff is fantastic. I've spent plenty of money on midi keyboards and such, and these are by far my favourite.


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## LamaRose (Dec 27, 2016)

The Behringer looks like a cool design. So I guess you can't assign those 10 pads to keyswitches?


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## Vastman (Dec 27, 2016)

markleake said:


> There are a few other similar options available also, like:
> 
> http://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Accessories/Midi-Foot-Controllers/FCB1010/p/P0089
> 
> ...



I beg to differ... The AudioFront options allow you to mix and match any peddles/switches you want... multiples and run them all into one usb port... so you can customize EXACTLY what you want... unlike the Behringer foot thingy... although, if you want to use one, you can convert IT to USB/midi also, using the AudioFront interfaces...and still add other peddles...to control expression, dynamics, vibrato, volume, moving between articulations, hihats, whatever...

I've actually ordered 2 different units, which can be ganged, to control 7 pedals (continuous and/or momentary/switches) and a midi board...ALL into ONE usb port!

You can customize how the pedals are configured to EACH song, if you wish as he just came out with a vst version which moves with a song/composition...

They are amazing and allow you to go so many ways... You can USE a Nektar keyboard which lacks them and still have 3 piano pedals, a couple for orchestrals, and more... all going into just ONE usb port... use the pedals you have/buy the peddles you want...

AudioFront is one guy...Rob... he designed them, the software, and sells them direct. He's responsive, has an awesome forum and is innovating/expanding the software constantly based on user desires... For example, creating a vst version to customize pedal configurations and save them along with a song file is one of his latest updates, all free with the interface!


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## Vastman (Dec 27, 2016)

LamaRose said:


> The Behringer looks like a cool design. So I guess you can't assign those 10 pads to keyswitches?


very interesting question... I imagine you can... It's a great setup with two expression peddles and all the switches... My problem is it's MIDI and I don't have a midi interface, which led me to MIDIExpression, as they have combo midi to usb/other peddle input units...

I'll get around to reading the online manual at some point...

While the nano thingies are cute, they aren't foot controllers... for hands free operation. I wanna Foot controller so I can go from one articulation to another in OT's capsule...


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## markleake (Dec 28, 2016)

LamaRose said:


> The Behringer looks like a cool design. So I guess you can't assign those 10 pads to keyswitches?


It's a pretty old design now. The two expression pedals don't use a standard potentiometer so are prone to problems, and the individual switches are also know to have problems. It is also notoriously hard to configure, and the configuration software that makes it easier to configure has to be bought separately, and is from a third party, not Behringer.


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## markleake (Dec 28, 2016)

Vastman said:


> I beg to differ... The AudioFront options allow you to mix and match any peddles/switches you want... multiples and run them all into one usb port... so you can customize EXACTLY what you want... unlike the Behringer foot thingy... although, if you want to use one, you can convert IT to USB/midi also, using the AudioFront interfaces...and still add other peddles...to control expression, dynamics, vibrato, volume, moving between articulations, hihats, whatever...
> 
> I've actually ordered 2 different units, which can be ganged, to control 7 pedals (continuous and/or momentary/switches) and a midi board...ALL into ONE usb port!
> 
> ...


Sounds great, except I think you misread what I wrote.


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## airflamesred (Dec 28, 2016)

LamaRose said:


> The Behringer looks like a cool design. So I guess you can't assign those 10 pads to keyswitches?


In theory, yes. Unfortunately though these are not very good.
In fact I would go so far as to say if we ever have the musical equivalent of the Nuremberg trials this should be at the first in the dock!


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## Will Blackburn (Feb 7, 2017)

Vastman said:


> This will take care of all your dreams...
> http://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php
> 
> BTW, most necktar kbds don't have expression



Vastyman I've got a Nektar P1 and the TecControl Breath thingy but both don't really cut it for me. The Tec is too much hard work physically no matter how i tweak it, it is either too sensitive or too unresponsive. And the nectar is really nice but i cant use both hands on the keyboard. 

So next up is a footcontroller. Am i right in thinking if i bought the Quatro Expression i would then need to get upto four pedals and could then assign Expression Dynamics Vibrato etc individually to each one? 

What pedals do you use with it? I dont own any yet so imagine its all going to add up on top of the price of the Quattro


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## mc_deli (Feb 7, 2017)

wcb123 said:


> Vastyman I've got a Nektar P1 and the TecControl Breath thingy but both don't really cut it for me. The Tec is too much hard work physically no matter how i tweak it, it is either too sensitive or too unresponsive. And the nectar is really nice but i cant use both hands on the keyboard.
> 
> So next up is a footcontroller. Am i right in thinking if i bought the Quatro Expression i would then need to get upto four pedals and could then assign Expression Dynamics Vibrato etc individually to each one?
> 
> What pedals do you use with it? I dont own any yet so imagine its all going to add up on top of the price of the Quattro


I like Mission pedals because they feel like Cry Babies, so I got a Mission VM1 and have been using it with the Midi Expression dongle to control Dynamics. The Mission pedals are not cheap but they are good. I have another one of theirs for my Eventide pedals.


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## Will Blackburn (Feb 7, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> I like Mission pedals because they feel like Cry Babies, so I got a Mission VM1 and have been using it with the Midi Expression dongle to control Dynamics. The Mission pedals are not cheap but they are good. I have another one of theirs for my Eventide pedals.



Thanks deli, cry babies???


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## mc_deli (Feb 8, 2017)

wcb123 said:


> Thanks deli, cry babies???


Cry Baby = ubiquitous Dunlop wah wah pedal with heavy housing. Very different from piano pedals or plastic exp pedals e.g. Roland EV5 or bigger footprint volume pedals like the Ernie Ball or Morleys.

Mission use the popular and "proven" Cry Baby format but their gear seems even tougher and higher quality.

By the ways it's MC Deli to you!!!


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## Silence-is-Golden (Feb 8, 2017)

if you leave out automap software I am very content with my new novation impulse 61. Has both sustain and expression pedal input.

If you want to go another way: http://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php


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## Vastman (Feb 9, 2017)

wcb123 said:


> Vastyman I've got a Nektar P1 and the TecControl Breath thingy but both don't really cut it for me. The Tec is too much hard work physically no matter how i tweak it, it is either too sensitive or too unresponsive. And the nectar is really nice but i cant use both hands on the keyboard.
> 
> So next up is a footcontroller. Am i right in thinking if i bought the Quatro Expression i would then need to get upto four pedals and could then assign Expression Dynamics Vibrato etc individually to each one?
> 
> What pedals do you use with it? I dont own any yet so imagine its all going to add up on top of the price of the Quattro


Sorry... I've been traveling to and fro Idaho...I still haven't set up my new studio with the new rig. I've relocated things to Idaho while I'm selling home in Oakland CA. It's taking months!!! I would suggest you pose any questions you might have to his forum. When I first discovered the site/expression boxes, I tried to sort out my needs vs Rob's options and got a response within a day. He's even got threads on what peddles to use... I can't recall what he said at the moment.

Have fun! He's filling a niche we all can appreciate!


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## C.R. Rivera (Feb 9, 2017)

"relatively cheap midi keyboard with an expression pedal input?"

Well, I don't know if this may be useful, but I use the M-audio Keystation 88, an Arturia Keylab 49 and Keylab 49. All three have inputs for sustain and expression pedals that work, at least for me. And, the Keystation was "on sale" at Xmas time.


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