# Sketch with Hans Zimmer Strings



## Jeremy Gillam (Apr 18, 2018)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5u5ifrwy8cg97hs/Sketch%20with%20HZS%20by%20Jeremy%20Gillam.zip?dl=0 (Cubase Project &amp; MIDI File)

Hi everyone,

This is an étude I did with Hans Zimmer Strings. There are no additional sounds or processing except for a limiter on the master bus. Thank you for listening.

Jeremy


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## NoamL (Apr 18, 2018)

Wow!

Strange and fascinating from the first note. The way, at the beginning, the sound of the church & the air moving is more present than the actual notes... again, fascinating...

The idea (1:05) of stuff moving across the stage by being transferred from section to section is kind of genius. The programming in this section could be improved to make the beat & meter a bit clearer though.

I think you might be pushing the strings a bit too hard at 3:12 onwards. You can still get a big sound from them without going all the way to fortissimo, the violins sound a little strained/harsh at this dynamic.

Throughout the piece you maintain a sort of emotional ambivalence that works very successfully.

What on earth is going on at 4:00-:20? Are you automating the mic mix here to pull back the perspective? It sounds amazing.


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## Pete Skrade (Apr 18, 2018)

Awesome! You could repeat the entire length of this, with a flute counterpoint over it the second time  Gorgeous in maintaining mood during the expansion of scale. Makes me lust more than ever for the for-now-out-of-reach-financially instrument, itself  (I am Spitfire's greatest admirer.) Great piece ! For what my take is worth, it is without critical flaw, (in its composition: Production is nice, but hard to judge, since I find Soundcloud hard to have perfect confidence in.)


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## ism (Apr 18, 2018)

wow


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## Jeremy Gillam (Apr 18, 2018)

Thanks for your thoughts @NoamL. I updated the file on SoundCloud trying to incorporate your suggestions which I think are great. It's tricky getting all this light, floating stuff to feel tight. I'd already had those 'fortissimo' violins pulled back well below 127 but I took it further here. I agree they were sounding too harsh. I would still like them to be more luscious but the vibrato doesn't seem to work in the legato patch right now...

At 4:00-:20 I just pulled out the violas CS so you're left hearing the violins super flautando and harmonics patches, there's no mic automation anywhere in the piece. What I did was load up each articulation on its own track and try to find a mic and reverb mix that I thought was expressive and would sit well enough with the other parts, particularly as I set myself the limitation of not using any additional mixing tools. The rest is just riding modulation, expression, and velocity for the shorts.


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## Saxer (Apr 19, 2018)

Beautiful colors! Great track!


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## ThomasNL (Apr 19, 2018)

would love to see a behind the scenes of this! This is exactly what the library was made for i think, love the airiness.


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## JasonTse (Apr 19, 2018)

Amazing! So beautiful. The library truly shines in this kind of a context. So airy, intimate yet also grand.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Apr 19, 2018)

ThomasNL said:


> would love to see a behind the scenes of this! This is exactly what the library was made for i think, love the airiness.



I'm not really set up to make a walkthrough video right now — and I prefer to leave that kind of thing to the professionals! But you're welcome to take a look at my Cubase project file. I've added a link below the SoundCloud player above. I also included a MIDI file in case you're in a different DAW.


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## germancomponist (Apr 19, 2018)

Sound! Very good, Jeremy!


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## jononotbono (Apr 19, 2018)

Liking this a lot!

So glad to hear some creative uses with HZS. I can't wait till I can buy them!


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## Josh Richman (Apr 19, 2018)

Inspiring. Glad I picked it up, haven't had chance to dive into it really.


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## Living Fossil (Apr 24, 2018)

Hi Jeremy, really nice piece, congratulations! 
One thing (that comes up each time i hear HZ strings) is that solina-synth character on higher melodic lines.
In your piece it's very evident at around 3:14- 3:36.
Do you think it's possible to render that texture less synthetic with some additional work, or is this the point where the limitation of the library starts?


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## Jeremy Gillam (Apr 24, 2018)

I noticed that too @Living Fossil in a couple demos before I bought the library and wondered if I could make it sound better. Apparently not! My programming may well be at fault, but what I'll say is that HZS won't be my library of choice for high long/legato violin lines (I'll use SSS as it's the only other good library I have right now). Even with the vibrato working properly in the longs patch and experimenting with different mic positions, HZS violins don't have the weight, the feeling of bows on strings that I'd like.


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## yhomas (Apr 30, 2018)

jrgillam said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5u5ifrwy8cg97hs/Sketch%20with%20HZS%20by%20Jeremy%20Gillam.zip?dl=0 (Cubase Project &amp; MIDI File)
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> ...




To my ears, the quiet parts sound realistic, but as the piece builds, it starts to sound more and more like a synthesizer playing some of the layers of the notes, but it is a pleasant sound--like a real string edited and trying to sound like a synth (and succeeding) rather than a synth trying to sound like a real string (and failing)--maybe this is because of the incredibly high number of equivalent players here. Nice overall result IMO. 

The main thing that bothers me in this track is that something is dragging after 2:20--most likely the tempo seems too slow and/or some of the shorts are playing behind the beat. There is also one clunker high note at 3:16 that I would rather have removed. Also, the fade out is too quick for me--not sure if it is ~3 seconds too quick or ~30 seconds too quick, but I wanted more of the quiet stuff at the end (though maybe it is better to leave the listener wanting more).


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## Jeremy Gillam (May 18, 2018)

I've thought a lot about your comments on this @yhomas — you were able to put your finger on a few things that bothered me while I was working on it but that I wasn't able to articulate for myself. That last 5-10% in the execution of something is always the hardest and where this level of criticism is especially valuable. I really appreciate it.


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## yhomas (May 19, 2018)

Hey, I’m glad you could extract something helpful. 

I enjoyed listening several times again this morning. This is arguably not enough musical content for 4.5 minutes; IMO, it would be beneficial to at least add a variation which is a surprise. Nevertheless, for my taste, I didn’t get bored, probably because the song is sufficiently sonically interesting and emotionally moving—it subjectively seems like it lasts ~2.5 minutes. As simple and repetitive it is, I still want more—and this feeling holds up for me after repeated listening. 

IMO, this is a very strong musical idea. The shorts by themselves are making a groove that I am locking onto. But I am fairly convinced that a lot of the shorts are running behind the beat. Maybe try pushing the 2nd repeated note slightly ahead of the beat?

Listening in my car, the performance, arrangement, and mix are all pretty mushy in the latter half. The performance is mushy in terms of timing. The arrangement mush is perhaps just so many players. Moving beyond the HZ demo purpose, maybe you could get a few of the notes in the chords to be played by other instruments? 

The long notes seem heavy on reverb—maybe this is what is generally called for aesthetically, but perhaps a bit of a drier string (solo? or smaller band) could be blended in? I don’t know anything about mixing, but I imagine that some carving with EQ would be beneficial. 

One other thing I noticed—and it could just be my car speakers—the shorts (highest note of the octaves near end) seem just a bit thin/shrill; maybe consider blending a bit of synth into those?

However, just as it is, this song works very well, and I really like it. 

Keep in mind, I am a layperson with a small hobby interest in music and VI (but no actual expertise).


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## yhomas (May 20, 2018)

For ideas on shorts, maybe check out: https://vi-control.net/community/th...or-synth-orchestral-track.71494/#post-4230225


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## Jeremy Gillam (May 20, 2018)

Thanks again @yhomas. I hear you on all points and they are good notes. I'm swamped with my day job right now (I do retouching for architectural photographers) and when I have some more time for music I'll probably move on to new ideas, but if I ever have reason to revisit this I'll bear in mind all the excellent suggestions in this thread. I don't mean to beat a dead horse in discussing this piece, but I showed it to someone who represents a bunch of film and TV composers the other day and he basically told me it was shit and would make him look bad if he showed it to any of his clients. This got me thinking about it again, and as it was meant to be an étude, I wanted to try to learn something from it to apply to future attempts!

I actually had another melody that I liked which I was bringing in midway through and then again as an outro, but even without changing the underlying harmony I felt like it distracted from the overall mood of the thing, so I nixed it.

The shorts throughout are quantized exactly on the grid with the HZS tightness set to about 75%. I agree that they seem behind though I kind of like the slightly reluctant feel this gives, but maybe I'm kidding myself. I think the long notes in this library have quite some variation in the recorded ADSR envelopes between sections and articulations, so even if two or more notes start and end at the same time they don't feel like they're playing and breathing together. And at 60 bpm with no other instruments or percussion to disguise the transitions they're quite exposed. I might be wrong about this though and it could just be user error on my part. I did go back and forth a lot listening with and without click and nudging the longs around.

I find timing to be the hardest part of making recordings, whether with live instruments/singers or with computers. I've been told I have no rhythm, which is true, but I think getting things to be super tight while still having feel and expressiveness is actually quite tricky. If anyone reading this has any programming tips for a guy with no rhythm they'd be most welcome!


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## yhomas (May 21, 2018)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Thanks again @yhomas. I hear you on all points and they are good notes. I'm swamped with my day job right now (I do retouching for architectural photographers) and when I have some more time for music I'll probably move on to new ideas, but if I ever have reason to revisit this I'll bear in mind all the excellent suggestions in this thread. I don't mean to beat a dead horse in discussing this piece, but I showed it to someone who represents a bunch of film and TV composers the other day and he basically told me it was shit and would make him look bad if he showed it to any of his clients. This got me thinking about it again, and as it was meant to be an étude, I wanted to try to learn something from it to apply to future attempts!



Obviously, the guy was significantly right. You have implemented a musical idea as a (flawed and incomplete) “sketch” with HZ strings. As a demo for your compositional/arrangement/mock-up/mixing skills, this is not at a professional media music standard. (I listened just out of curiosity regarding the samples.)

But IMO, you have created a very strong song/idea—which is the hard part of writing. Most composers (no offense) can’t come up with good ideas (or the used up all their good ideas years ago), so we are generally used to hearing highly polished turd music. So IMO, your guy has set an appropriately high bar regarding the polish aspect but he either can’t distinguish between the underlying turd music vs. good music (most people can’t), or he didn’t communicate the distinction. Anyway, your sketch is solidly in the “not shit” category IMO.


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