# Optane as RAM replacement



## Phryq (Apr 22, 2017)

You'll soon be able to buy a 32gb Optane M.2 2280 drive for $150.

It's said to be slower than RAM, but faster than PCIe. However, looking at the specs, it seems even *slower* than some PCIe disks.

E.G. sequential reads are 

*Optane* 1350 MB/s vs the *960 Pro*'s 3,500MB/s.

I know what's important is Random Read, however there are no consistent specs

*Optane *Random Read (8GB Span) 240,000 IOPS
*Optane *Random Read (100% Span) 240,000 IOPS
*960 Pro *Random Read (QD32) 440,000 IOPS
*960 Pro *Random Read (QD1) 14,000 IOPS

Is the Optane giving read specs for QD1? Therefore it's 17 times faster? (And is QD1 what's most important for streaming samples?).

But the *big* question. Can I buy one of these, rather than upgrading ram (since I'm out of RAM slots).


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## Gauss (Apr 22, 2017)

Optane is nothing more than SSD Cache that works only with 7th gen Intel processors.


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## chimuelo (Apr 22, 2017)

Well you need both packages like the 4800X and M.2 in combination with caching software being tested to get the sub system set up to trick the OS.
Been reading about 3D XPoint and was interested in similar apps going back to GSIF days.
Cenatec Rocket RAID was trying to trick our massive 2GB RAM Pool into being 8 GBs etc.
Then the Windows switch to get 3GBs was the big deal.
I've come to the conclusion that audio apps require a steady uninterrupted flow of data over these high speed bursts and insane seek times.

SATA II speeds up to PCI-e 2X speeds (780MBps) is the sweet spot.
I wish I knew why our apps or ASIO or OS act in certain ways better.
But the best build I have over the years is my 2016 rig which uses an NVMe M.2 for STEAM, and a cage of 4 x Samsung 850 Pro SSDs in Dual RAID 1 for OS + Apps.
RAID 1 was for redundancy but actually kicked up the random IOps from having dual seeks.
Benching software like AS-SSD and Samsung Magician show 115k random and 530 reads.
i7 4790k @ 4.4 using a 120mm Enermax AIO, 32GBs of DDR3 1600 CL9.

Actually tested a 4TB WD SSHD for STEAM and OS and was shocked after 6 reboots and streaming Omni or OS chores it worked as good as the M.2.
So it seems smarter software could be better than insane reads and seeks.

My FPGA Hammond Module and DSP Rack allow the PC to generate audio only, no Native processing for FX or number crunching.
I use an 18GB Template that responds like real time instruments.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Apr 22, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> But the best build I have over the years is my 2016 rig which uses an NVMe M.2 for STEAM, and a cage of 4 x Samsung 850 Pro SSDs in Dual RAID 1 for OS + Apps.
> RAID 1 was for redundancy but actually kicked up the random IOps from having dual seeks.
> Benching software like AS-SSD and Samsung Magician show 115k random and 530 reads.
> i7 4790k @ 4.4 using a 120mm Enermax AIO, 32GBs of DDR3 1600 CL9.
> ...



Chimuelo, what rack case is that? I don't think I've come across that one in searches...


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## chimuelo (Apr 22, 2017)

Norco RPC-432.

I also use other short 4Us like the Russian made one below.
It's sitting on my porch. When I get back from Vegas it gets packed with new AMD I've been testing.
I left in on doing cycling max CPU tests last Thursday when I left.
72 hour burn in before I start using it.

All SATA wiring Ports under the chassis for really clean build.
340mm Deep for short chassis.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Apr 23, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> Norco RPC-432.
> 
> I also use other short 4Us like the Russian made one below.
> It's sitting on my porch. When I get back from Vegas it gets packed with new AMD I've been testing.
> ...


Thanks! Those are quite nice. I will look into one for my next build.


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## chimuelo (Apr 24, 2017)

Here's some different views.
This was on my porch when I got home this morning.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Apr 25, 2017)

Nice! I found both cases on Amazon. I do like the raised MOBO feature - keeps stuff neat. Thanks for the extra views!


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## chimuelo (Apr 25, 2017)

I like using custom made cabling with high quality locking latches and shielding.
I just send this guy specs and peripherals used and he is quite talented.
For example. Furthest right 5.25" Drive bay gets an AMS Venus SSD Cage.
He'll make cables from caddy to mobo with 90 degree angles.
Basically replacing all Modular cables coming from the PSU.
My rigs get bounced around a lot so it's worth the extra coin to have only human error/ software issues to deal with rather than the lowest bidder factory cabling.

https://icemodz.ecwid.com/


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## chimuelo (May 1, 2017)

Well shit.
Juniors tech savvy geek friend just built a Hackintosh Z270 @ 4.6GHz/64C temp. Audio/ gaming rig.
Chimuelo Jr. is a choppin' fool with ESX24 so I'm building him a 4U monster rig.

ASRock Z270 Super Carrier TBolt 3 w/ i7 7700k 
64GBs of DDR4 2400
Silverstone Strider 550w 80 Plus Platinum PSU
3 x 32GB Intel Optane NVMe devices
3 x 4TB WD Black 7200rpm HDDs
UAD Apollo / FMR-RNP Mic Pre/ Shure KSM8

I've been reading on Optane and it will only expand its uses over time.
Right now it's perfect for fronting any 5400/7200rpm HDD.

In case multiple Optanes don't work, Samsung 850 EVOs and a single Optane combo will do.
But I'm hearing from non official IRST/caching gurus using Primo that multiple devices is OK.

I'll report back on how samples from Omnisphere, Kontakt and PLAY work out.
The rig is cheap.
The audio interface, mic pre and broadcast mic cost almost 4 large.
Go big or go home is my motto.....


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## Phryq (May 1, 2017)

Right, but that's in a system with that already has 64gb ram.

What if you have e.g. an SSD, and a NVMe drive, but you *don't* have enough RAM for your template. Can Optane help with that?


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## chimuelo (May 1, 2017)

No but IT guys seem to be able to extend RAM over to NVMe using Romex caching software.

I'm building an Optane enhanced rig from the ground up.
5 year warranty on 4TB WD Black HDDs.
16TBs of storage at NVMe speeds for 580 bucks is worth a try.

Nobody can answer my questions so I've got a 30 day return policy.
Hope it works, if not an Optane enhanced 4TB OS+Apps set up is worth the time.
Hackintosh with dual boot options will surely chew up GBs.


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## Phryq (May 1, 2017)

Well, what if your sample libraries are already *on* NVMe?


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## NameOfBand (May 1, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> No but IT guys seem to be able to extend RAM over to NVMe using Romex caching software.
> 
> I'm building an Optane enhanced rig from the ground up.
> 5 year warranty on 4TB WD Black HDDs.
> ...


That's crazy! So if it works it will be sort of a very fast hybrid drive? And is it possible to use your NVMe disk as RAM? Btw I thought the optane sticks could be used as RAM?


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## chimuelo (May 1, 2017)

Let them throttle down from heat, you won't even notice until you run Samsungs phony software...

Just kidding.
You don't really need anything except an SSD for streaming samples.
I do see improvements loading Omnisphere samples from an NVMe.


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## chimuelo (May 1, 2017)

NameOfBand said:


> That's crazy! So if it works it will be sort of a very fast hybrid drive? And is it possible to use your NVMe disk as RAM? Btw I thought the optane sticks could be used as RAM?



Well I'm up for a challenge.
Don't know if it works but I grabbed 4 x 4TB WD HDDs for ridiculous prices on a Newegg special.

It would be a very fast hybrid drive because it's not the overall speed, but transaction time from super low latency. 
We have poorly written apps compared to Sun Cisco and optimized software.
This results in cache misses, and multiple seeks before hitting the target data.
Our stuff is so fast this brute force tactic works fine.

We have CPU Cache, RAM then SSD/NVMe/HDD as our pyramid for storage.
With Optane you could have CPU Cache, RAM then Optane, whose latency is much faster than NVMe or SSD.
Not that we need Optane.
But....spending hundreds instead of thousands motivates me.
NVMe speeds using 12TBs would be 5-6000 USD.

It's worth a shot.
These reviewers are hardware mooches.
The days of guys like Kyle Bennet and Anand Shimpli are over.
Now Intel sends you an Optane, tells you how to bench, what tests to do, then let us see your review,....yes, we liked the favorable results you gave us, keep the device, and thanks again for agreeing with us, here's your NDA...

I ask a simple fucking question, can I use 3 x M.2 slots, 3 x Optane and 3 x hdds?

I get crickets...

I'll do my own review, don't need free stuff, if it sucks I send them back.


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## Phryq (May 2, 2017)

Right, but what about

32gb Ram
32gb Optain
2x 512gb NVMe

Can that do what 64gb of ram can?


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## NameOfBand (Jul 16, 2017)

I'm super excited to hear how this turned out @chimuelo ??


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