# Could you write music just for yourself and be fulfilled?



## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 28, 2018)

My day job is business. I have to talk business with people about stuff I do not care about. I have to travel to business conferences and pretend to want to get to know people who I dont have much in common with, about their businesses that I dont care about at all.

I have been approaching composition with the aim of it being a business one day, and the more time I spend at my day job, the more I wonder if I should be trying to turn one of my favourite things to do on this planet into a business.

I have so few hours free to write music. Using them instead to hustle and fix up online presences just hurts me a little bit.

I feel a bit lost to be honest.


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## ka00 (Jul 28, 2018)

Hang in there, man. If I were directing a project with a proper music budget, I would hire you instantly. Your material is excellent.

Keep your day job at least as a means of survival and to allow you to be more choosy about what paid music projects you take on.

Keep making your demos and send them to people anywhere in the world who make the kind of cool things you’d want your music to be a part of. That way you’re not limited by only what’s going on in your own backyard, and if you’re being more choosy, then maybe your passion won’t have to immediately feel like a job either.


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## Greg (Jul 28, 2018)

Starting out is by far the hardest part. Once you have the website made, social media in gear, and start posting your work, you can really streamline it and it becomes much more enjoyable. Do the boring work now and try to plant seeds early on that will sprout into the career you want to have on a daily basis. Music certainly doesn't have to be a "business" to make a lot of money. Plenty of middle men will do that dirty work for you  best of luck!


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## CT (Jul 28, 2018)

With a few exceptions, writing for myself is pretty much all I've done so far, although I always have the hope that it won't be *totally* for myself. Sometimes it's not!

Of course I'd love to be able to score some great movies or television or games, and make a living off of that, but... whatever comes of those ambitions, I can at least always write my own music, get it out there thanks to technology, and maybe someone will give a damn.

I find that reassuring, but I don't know if that means I'm fulfilled by it. Whether it's an album or a piece of concert music or a score, the point is for it to reach other people, after all. And that is not a given unless you're in the big leagues.

I hope you're able to find your way.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 28, 2018)

Right now I can. But I like my job for the most part and I am still learning to do stuff. I sometimes worry if I were to try to make it into a full time job, I would lose some of the joy I get from it. I've had this happen before. The bad parts of doing the work suck out all the joy of something I like to do, if that makes sense. But this is me.


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## Eckoes (Jul 28, 2018)

I compose music solely for the pleasure it brings me. Although I make my living as a gigging musician and music teacher, I am not a good enough composer to make money at it so I don’t even try. With that pressure not even on the radar, I’m free just to compose for the fun of it.

I listen to some of the compositions on this website and I’m amazed. I’m nearing 50 and I feel it’s too late for me to write that kind of music for a full orchestra. So again, there is no pressure there.
I just write small combo kind of stuff, sort of rock based but not “metal” or anything. More like early 70’s proggy stuff that’s kind of psychedelic and has folk and jazz elements thrown in.

I get immense satisfaction from it, but it can also be tiring. I have periods of intense inspiration and creativity, and then it dies and I don’t compose for weeks. Am I alone here?

I sometimes play some of my compositions for my girlfriend, and she either really likes them or pretends to lol.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 28, 2018)

ka00 said:


> Hang in there, man. If I were directing a project with a proper music budget, I would hire you instantly. Your material is excellent.
> 
> Keep your day job at least as a means of survival and to allow you to be more choosy about what paid music projects you take on.
> 
> Keep making your demos and send them to people anywhere in the world who make the kind of cool things you’d want your music to be a part of. That way you’re not limited by only what’s going on in your own backyard, and if you’re being more choosy, then maybe your passion won’t have to immediately feel like a job either.


Thanks mate. You're far too kind. I really do appreciate that!

*Thanks everyone for the advice and support*. The past few weeks have been pretty shit and to top it off, a colleague of mine asked how my "music side thing" was going... It was nice of him to ask but really puts things into perspective especially when I had not much to answer him with.


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## col (Jul 28, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> the more I wonder if I should be trying to turn one of my favourite things to do on this planet into a business.


And if your favourite music to write does not fit into what is commercially viable you might end up churning out generic fluff that you don't get much pleasure in writing anyway.


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## MatFluor (Jul 28, 2018)

I'm a bit different. I treat my "music side thing" as a business from the start. Always did, starting back then with my former band.

I'm not so much of a "free thinking artist" - If I would write music just for me, it would be difficult to do it. I honestly need that external validation - giving a meaning to what I produce, as in - it needs to be heard. And a Youtube Video or Bandcamp album with no views/sales doesn't count as "heard" for me personally - my music needs a purpose.

Some time ago, as one of the reasons why I quit my former band, we sat together and discussed the future plans for the band. With people getting married, pregnancies of wifes etc coming on the horizon, we needed to discuss where to go from there. So - 5 of 6 members wanted to become a "rehearsal room" band, produce our own CDs (we had reasonably good equipment) and have the occasional gig or two per year. 1 Member (me) was hard against that plan - see above - my music (since I was the sole composer) doesn't make sense that way - it needs a purpose. When we don't even plan to make gigs, why bother? I can't make music where the only justification of eistance is "my personal fulfillment" - I mean - I can, but my fulfillment is different. I need that purpose - live gigs, seeing people having a good time. Yes to produce our own stuff etc, but without bringing the sound to the people, why do it?

So, after that short excourse (I hope I didn't trigger anybody too hard) - I view music as business, and my fulfillment comes from the raison d'être, in my case - purpose. A piece of underscore tied to a movie, a main theme for a game, a simple audio logo - this music has purpose, therefore is something that keeps me going doing it - I see that what I contribute is useful to others, brings joy (or other emotions).

I hope that wasn't too strange to read - it's still Sunday morning here xD


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 29, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> I hope that wasn't too strange to read - it's still Sunday morning here xD



It makes sense. I guess a part of me feels the same way, which is why I posed the question in the first place (except I can write just for myself perhaps a bit easier than yourself based on what you said)


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## ein fisch (Jul 29, 2018)

In my experience i had way more fun doing music when doing it together with other people, even if it didnt have financial purposes. I know a damn talented singer i recorded a song with back in school age, and we had to use all our creativity doing so in my f***** up room then to get proper acoustic. Also met a band and made music with them twice as a keyboardist and aside im doing my own thing at home.
But im now 20 years old and was more or less sitting on my mom's money, what makes me feel bad. I also lost dozens of connections and friends due to my lonely hobby as a composer. So im not enjoying music as much as i did as a child, just for fulfilment. I told myself i now need to lay my focus on something that brings me a proper income and also gets me out of my room sometimes. So now i felt pretty lucky to get a barjob in a very crowded club in zürich on the weekends. In addition i also start working 40% somewhere else. Rest of the time i can make as much music as i want and have enough money to give my parents some to live here and also to buy new stuff sometimes. I put aside as much money as i can and sooner or later wanna do an audio engineering school (which im still curious about what the best choice would be) just to gain the knowledge, i dont really care about the paper since people told me no one cares about it.

Conclusion: i can do it for my own fulfilment, as long as im not living like a spoiled kid. I dont know if that is a personal issue but i want to get money, gear, plugins etc all myself and then treat it as some kind of luxury hobby id probably die for. That way i can gratefully enjoy it. But that doesnt mean i wouldnt create a yt channel to share my stuff there. I of course would also want to be heard

Only problem here is that this "music business" thing can be damn confusing where or with what to start. Website? Website what for? Youtube channel? What for? Those are questions who i look forward to get answers when being able to go out and meet other musicians.

Btw also sunday morning, so also a potential strange read here


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## Cinebient (Jul 29, 2018)

Short answer: Yes!


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## Alex Niedt (Jul 29, 2018)

I'm way more fulfilled just doing it for myself, as it's way more creatively freeing. I also don't have the stress of wondering where my next gig/check is going to come from.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 29, 2018)

Hey, there's nothing wrong at all with writing music for yourself and/or just plain fun. Try not to run your family into the poor house with gambles on sample libraries though lol.

Whenever I meet a noob in person who seems to be struggling with both little talent and even less motivation, I tell them to just call a hobby a hobby, it's fine!

And btw, the people whom make money from music (like me and my peers, though I'm far from living solely off of music) don't look down on musical hobbyists in any way. I personally like to see people doing what they like doing. Plus, if you change you mind later and decide to go for zee bucks, well, good for you!


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## Saxer (Jul 29, 2018)

I made a lot of music for the hard disc. I had fun doing it but when it's ready it's just stored there for nothing. 

But when there's a composer/arranger job I have much more fun and energy. There's a direction and a purpose... and always someone who's waiting for it.

It's like the difference of cooking because I'm hungry or cooking because a bunch of friends coming along.


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## C M Dess (Jul 29, 2018)

Everyone always gives the short answer, here's an unnecessarily long one...

There are a lot of people who figure out how to hustle their music and to be honest they really pollute the process for everyone and the listener too. It is because the power of marcom (the ability to get noticed, get contacts, get real fans, find agency) distorts the objectives and innocence of the creative process. If you are an "obsessive" creative then you will find yourself obsessing over what gives you the best bang for the buck, which will not be making quality music from your heart.

We're supposed to have teams who help us in this industry so we can produce the best music possible but once contracts are involved it becomes a game of who will cheat who the most. Parasite eat parasite.

There is a myth of "scouting discovery". In reality there are thousands of people DYING to get their exceptional abilities noticed. They'll do fucking anything. They don't have the isolated sensitivity for real music making and the people that buy them don't care. Many of them end up on the streets of California as beggars for change or they sell out and become cannibal handlers.

The true "scouting discovery" is what idiot will sign the dumbest fucking contracts in the world and be willing to be buried alive by worthless vultures.

So one MUST make music for themselves if they really want to enjoy making music. There's a big "bluegrass" movement in California. I get the style but not something I really chase but it goes to show how far people will go to rediscover musicality from the heart instead of for profit (with monsanto heart sprinkles).

It sounds like you're trying to monetize the music so you can do it full-time. But if you work with anyone they will always want "some big star" type creation and never Simon. If you accidentally slip in a few Simon's thoughts and think it's the greatest work you've ever done the filth of the industry will always find them and always ask you to remove them. Total world of copycat and not much else and it pretty much gets worse from there.


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## StillLife (Jul 29, 2018)

Another way to look at it, I guess, is: can you do without making music, even when it is just for yourself? Would that make you happier? In my case it would certainly not. And then the next question is: why would it (not)? In my case: because then I will lose my favorite way to reflect on feelings and to connect with life, I guess. But that's just me... there are many possible individual answers to these two simple questions. 
Of course, when given the choice, I would prefer making money from my music instead of from my daytime job (which I also like!), or maybe not neccesarily making money, but having more people hear my music. But I must not fool myself (being almost 50 now): I have no commercial talent, and little interest in p.r....


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## JohnG (Jul 29, 2018)

Don’t judge the value of anything you do by how much, or little, money you make from it. The most important things I do, that most people do, don’t generate money. 

Whether you are humble and compassionate will more likely determine life satisfaction than material success, because those qualities make one a better friend, a better spouse, and generate lasting, meaningful connections, in music or business or on the personal side. 

No need to be drearily serious either. Boring. 

Keep making enough money, keep reaching for connections in music, keep writing sincerely and don’t give up, on your music or yourself. And have fun as much as possible.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 30, 2018)

I can only speak from personal experience.

I’m almost 64, and I’ve never made a dime from anything but music and investments made with money earned from music. I dropped out of music school at 18 and was working within a month. I made crap money when I started, was on the road for 7 years mostly playing shitty clubs, then I moved to NYC at 25 and wormed my way into the jingle business over the course of 5 years. I did a lot of other gigs too, but the jingle thing was way more lucrative and it gave me the opportunity to hire the best musicians in the world and work in great studios.

I’ve always been a wannabe songwriter, but the exhausting hours of my jingle gig just sucked the energy out. I was also married and raising a kid, so though I wrote a few songs s year, they pretty much sucked.

Eventually, the jingle thing died off and I aged out, but I’d always had a retirement plan-to write whatever the hell I wanted to, including becoming a much better songwriter. These days, I still write library tracks for a little extra dough, but I also write songs with lyrics. I’ve improved every year, finding my style, trying new things, trying to get better as a lyricist. Sometimes I produce them, hire other singers, the occasional player, but the focus is on my pure enjoyment of songwriting. Most of the time, I just record my voice and a piano or an acoustic guitar.

I put some of these on iTunes, but I don’t promote them. I send them to friends, to other writers. It’s very fulfilling to me to SIMPLY WRITE WHAT *I* THINK is a good song, and when I accomplish that, I’m happy as heck. Some of them have ended up on tv or in film, but that was luck and someone else doing some marketing. It’s a byproduct.

I took a bunch of these tunes, put together a little act and invited family and friends to a local bar where I played and sang them, just me and an acoustic . It’s the only time I’ve played a set of my own material for people in 40 years. It was awesome fun, though nerve wracking.

I’m incredibly lucky to be in this phase of my life. Whatever else is going on in my life, I’m grateful for every day I get to do this songwriting thing-yes, I do it for me, and yes, I find it fulfilling. I hope you can find that same passion. Best of luck.


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## Alex Niedt (Jul 30, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> Try not to run your family into the poor house with gambles on sample libraries though lol.


I can buy lots of sample libraries at this point _because_ I no longer rely on audio and music as my primary source of income.


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## Loïc D (Jul 31, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I have been approaching composition with the aim of it being a business one day, and the more time I spend at my day job, the more I wonder if I should be trying to turn one of my favourite things to do on this planet into a business.



I never earned a dime from music.
It's just a hobby I'm doing for more than 30 years, and it's perfect like this.
Trying to turn pro would generate a lot of anxiety and probably kill the pleasure of it.
Plus, I'm too old for it now (>40yo) lol.

For the record, when I was teenager (early 90's), I want to turn mix engineer. 
I met some of them, and I realized back then how hard and uncertain the music business was.
I've witnessed my music pals surfing closer and closer the edge of poverty.

I chose a safer path (IT engineer) and now I'm international consultant in real estate / service provider IT with a very good wage. Which allows to both finance my household and my passion.

Of course, I've asked myself :
- Does making music *just* a hobby prevent me from improving my music skills ? No.
- Does music as a hobby make the music pro I know look me down ? No. In fact, they perfectly understand this.
- Does having a main job kill the pleasure of making music ? No, on the contrary. Of course I have very limited time for it. It also mean I can't afford much procrastination, which is good.

Of course, I'm not in your situation.
And you are far more talented than I am (besides, if you could review my last piece I'd be grateful).

Just a thought : did you consider changing your main job ? This might be the key for a better balance, and keep music as a hobby until a big opportunity shows up.

Anyway, hang in ! 
There are moments of questions in life, but it's followed by moments of bliss.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 31, 2018)

The only fulfilling music is the one you write just for yourself, haha.


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## Grizzlymv (Jul 31, 2018)

Well, I was reading your post and it almost felt like if I wrote it! Hang in there buddy. Been into the similar situation as you are for a while. I have a day job in IT, which pays me very well (which helped me to build the studio I have today), but which doesn't fulfill me at all for many reasons. Music has always been there and over the years I started to work on some gigs and made few contacts along the way. Came to a point where I went to give it a shot seriously as I couldn't see myself doing IT stuff for the rest of my life. But with kids and family in the equation, and all that comes with it, it wasn't easy and the frustration from the day job didn't help. As I was working almost double shifts to put the quality time required in the studio, trying to meet the deadlines so I could get to a point I generate enough work on the music side to consider a shift from my day job, while still keeping a kind of family life and still work to pay the bills, I almost burned myself out and ended up lost and depressed as there was no way out to get joy out of it anymore. 

So, I started to put things in perspective and started to focus on what really matters at the end of the day for me, which is my family and having fun writing music. Plus, I'm 40+ so it's kind of late to get in the game, even though there's no age restriction per say.  Anyway, I mostly write music for myself now, which gives me some kind of freedom I didn't have when I was focusing on projects. On top of that, the stress that goes with it is gone. Working on a project, with all the restrictions and stress that comes with it, and frustrations that may arise often transforms it into another "day" job. 

Keep your day work at work, and forget about it the minute you end your day and don't get back to it until you're back at work the next day. During your day job, find the cool parts that comes with it (there must be few). Focusing on the negative part of your day job kinds of amplify the dissatisfaction of not doing what you like. At least, it was for me. Bad energy is quite draining! Find what makes you happy in life and put your energy in there. Sometime, you have to do things you like a lot less by necessity (like maybe having a day job to pay the bills and maybe like in my case, pay for the studio gears and stuff, which is a kind of reward for the pain! ) but that shouldn't become your focus point. Do a clear separation from your day job and the rest. 

On my side, I stopped all of this. Now I write stuff I like, for my own pleasure, and in the end, the satisfaction is much greater about the work I'm doing. If people gets interested in my work then fine, but it is no longer my focus. I just re-aligned my working hours so I can have a proper balance, stopped focusing on the negative things from the day job, so I keep my energy for the studio time, and overall, I feel like I enjoy it all much more today. The fun is back. So to answer your question, yes I think you can definitely write music just for yourself and be fulfilled.


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## Quasar (Jul 31, 2018)

I used to be a gigging piano player, strictly small-time $100 per night or whatever, and I hated it. I hated hauling equipment down the stairs of dive bars at 1 AM, I hated bonging out cover versions of vapid pop-rock songs etc. And I only did it because I thought it might be better than working a "straight" job in the capitalist business world, since I'm not big on that crap either.

I'm not interested in the business of music at all, my only ambition is to perhaps leave something worthwhile behind for posterity, and even that is sort of a "whatever" thing. I just enjoy "painting" music at home using these miraculous digital-age tools, and the means is not in service to any other end.

So, to answer the OP question directly, who listens or doesn't listen to it isn't of concern to me.


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## MarcelM (Jul 31, 2018)

yes


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## Loïc D (Jul 31, 2018)

Quasar said:


> I'm not interested in the business of music at all, my only ambition is to perhaps leave something worthwhile behind for posterity, and even that is sort of a "whatever" thing


I'll leave my small collection of guitars to my cat.
She already likes to rub her back on them. Not to speak about chasing & biting moving faders from my Mackie control.


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## stixman (Aug 1, 2018)

When I saw how the accountants had taken control of the music industry early 80s I chose gardening/landscaping as my main income/pension etc paid for my studio still kept on gigging remixing top 40 artists/showcasing etc i must say imo the state of quality music today is really weak corporate manufactured crap so keep on keeping on making great music


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## markleake (Aug 7, 2018)

LowweeK said:


> I'll leave my small collection of guitars to my cat.
> She already likes to rub her back on them. Not to speak about chasing & biting moving faders from my Mackie control.


My main audience I think is my cat. Sure sometimes other people listen on SoundCloud, or my family listens, but usually it's just my cat sitting on the monitors (they apparently make good sitting posts) or on my lap. He chews on faders and cables and knobs too, and likes to stand in the way a lot. He will often lift his head when dozing if he hears a bung note even... that's often the way I learn I'm writing crap.


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## PaulBrimstone (Aug 7, 2018)

markleake said:


> My main audience I think is my cat. Sure sometimes other people listen on SoundCloud, or my family listens, but usually it's just my cat sitting on the monitors (they apparently make good sitting posts) or on my lap. He chews on faders and cables and knobs too, and likes to stand in the way a lot. He will often lift his head when dozing if he hears a bung note even... that's often the way I learn I'm writing crap.


Well, that's an improvement on my cats. They run a mile when they hear me...feline philistines!


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## InLight-Tone (Aug 7, 2018)

I've always written music for myself and will always continue to do so. That being said, writing commercially is a challenge and a skill set I find appealing. Even if I had all the money in the world, I would still be drawn into wanting to craft useful music that's commercially viable instead of noodling just for me and those in my immediate vicinity...


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## bill5 (Oct 28, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> And btw, the people whom make money from music (like me and my peers, though I'm far from living solely off of music) don't look down on musical hobbyists in any way.


You've obviously never been to gearslutz.com.

My impression is the vast majority don't, but more than a few do, sadly. Though frankly I don't care as I don't rely on music for a living so if that helps them through the day, have fun.

Back to the OP: I can and I do. And like it that way. Stressing about trying to "make it" with music or please others would kill the joy of it for me.


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## Chr!s (Oct 28, 2018)

There was a time I'd have said no, but I find that as I approach the big 3-0, I give less of a damn about "making it". 

Music used to be all I could do. When I woke up in the morning, I'd start writing something, and keep working at it straight through to midnight until it was finished, mocked-up, 4 minute piece. I used to scoff at people who wouldn't orchestrate their own stuff and "do it all".

These days, I can barely stand to complete a mockup of a 2-minute piece, and I'll spend a week or more on it. Reason is that the kind of music I like to listen to, play, and write is a real pain in the ass to realize with samples, and I don't have the budget for live players. Like today, I spent 5 hours working on 8 bars trying to get the violins, the vocals, and some doublings just the way I wanted them. I can't simply put in dynamic markings and such and get what I want out of it. I'm shifting timings, messing with CC data, and all that other stuff and hours pass before I feel happy with its performance. It was a nice day out today, but before I knew it, the sun was setting...feels like a sunday wasted.

God, I've come to loathe that process and how time consuming it is. Writing the music? I love that part. I've loved writing music for games and films too. I can sit down and compose the sketch for the piece in a few hours on Monday morning, and have it all orchestrated into sheet music on Tuesday, but the mockups and shit...I'll be here for a long time.

This summer, I went to Medieval Faires with friends, camping, hiking, read some novels, traveled, etc. and I had a blast. It's tough to fit in that kinda stuff when you're locked away in a studio all day.

I'm going to score a short, Carpenter-inspired horror film soon, and I've been talking with another guy who's like a synth guru about him handling the sound design type stuff and MIDI mockup. The plan is, I'll go in, sit down with my pianos/guitars and stuff and when I'm done, send him the midi data and details of what I want so he can do his thing, I've had fun, and I get on with my life until tomorrow.

So while I do enjoy working on stuff that's paid, even there, I've come to enjoy it a lot more when I can work on it more on my terms and focus on the parts of the process I enjoy the most and feel I am best at and it's always nice to be left to just compose whatever the hell you like — I recently turned down a couple of gigs because, to be frank, I thought the films were vapid bullshit and I knew I'd hate writing the kind of music they wanted.


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## InLight-Tone (Oct 28, 2018)

ein fisch said:


> In my experience i had way more fun doing music when doing it together with other people, even if it didnt have financial purposes. I know a damn talented singer i recorded a song with back in school age, and we had to use all our creativity doing so in my f***** up room then to get proper acoustic. Also met a band and made music with them twice as a keyboardist and aside im doing my own thing at home.
> But im now 20 years old and was more or less sitting on my mom's money, what makes me feel bad. I also lost dozens of connections and friends due to my lonely hobby as a composer. So im not enjoying music as much as i did as a child, just for fulfilment. I told myself i now need to lay my focus on something that brings me a proper income and also gets me out of my room sometimes. So now i felt pretty lucky to get a barjob in a very crowded club in zürich on the weekends. In addition i also start working 40% somewhere else. Rest of the time i can make as much music as i want and have enough money to give my parents some to live here and also to buy new stuff sometimes. I put aside as much money as i can and sooner or later wanna do an audio engineering school (which im still curious about what the best choice would be) just to gain the knowledge, i dont really care about the paper since people told me no one cares about it.
> 
> Conclusion: i can do it for my own fulfilment, as long as im not living like a spoiled kid. I dont know if that is a personal issue but i want to get money, gear, plugins etc all myself and then treat it as some kind of luxury hobby id probably die for. That way i can gratefully enjoy it. But that doesnt mean i wouldnt create a yt channel to share my stuff there. I of course would also want to be heard
> ...


Being 20 you ARE a child, so don't give up yet. I didn't feel age until my mid-40's...


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## bill5 (Oct 28, 2018)

Oh brother. 20 is not "a child." Granted he's barely into adulthood, but an adult nonetheless. I had people tell me that "you're just a pup" BS up to my 30s even, simply because they were somewhat older than me. It's pretty ridiculous.


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## Tod (Oct 28, 2018)

InLight-Tone said:


> Being 20 you ARE a child, so don't give up yet. I didn't feel age until my mid-40's...



Wow, 20, that's just getting started. Mid 40s are a good time for serious reflection, it might be the middle of your life.

I wrote a few songs for my self back in my early career, but then I became a producer and my song writing kind of fell by the way side. I ended up recording and arranging music for my clients instead. Well not entirely, I did write and produce a lot of jingles through 70s and 80s, but that don't count.

During the 90s going into the 2000s, I did get a chance to write some orchestral music for wild life films and videos and that was probably one of my greatest satisfactions.

My career in the music business started in the early 1960s and I'm still doing it. I built my first recording studio in the late 60s going into the 70s. My studio barley held it's own and things were tough, but I was also a musician/performer and that's what got me through.

The question was "Could you write music just for yourself and be fulfilled", and my answer is yes, but I also get a lot of satisfaction arranging music for my clients.

In all honesty, my career has been a struggle, but I've managed and I've also had a lot of luck. Ha ha, right now I'm sitting in my control room, surrounded by equipment that cost a lot of money, and it's all boat anchors. Well except for my midi gear and computer. 

If you care to listen, Here's one of the first songs I ever wrote. It was 1965 and I recorded it on my first tape deck, a stereo 2 track Ampex.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 28, 2018)

Chr!s said:


> These days, I can barely stand to complete a mockup of a 2-minute piece, and I'll spend a week or more on it. Reason is that the kind of music I like to listen to, play, and write is a real pain in the ass to realize with samples, and I don't have the budget for live players. Like today, I spent 5 hours working on 8 bars trying to get the violins, the vocals, and some doublings just the way I wanted them. I can't simply put in dynamic markings and such and get what I want out of it. I'm shifting timings, messing with CC data, and all that other stuff and hours pass before I feel happy with its performance. It was a nice day out today, but before I knew it, the sun was setting...feels like a sunday wasted.



I can absolutely relate to this, 100%. Depending on duration and complexity, it takes me weeks to complete a piece. The main reason, of course, are my regular job and other real life responsibilities, but it's also this incredibly tedious, difficult and goddamn boring process. I'm very familiar with the feeling of having wasted a sunday on dorking around with CC data. Sometimes I have an unfinished piece laying around for weeks until I finally complete it because the thought of dorking around on the computer with this stuff suddenly reminds me of all the other things I could do with my life.

It's ridiculous when you think about it, how this whole music for media industry thing a lot of times is about racing the clock, toiling away like an idiot and finding ways to shit out cues as fast as possible. It's pure idiocy and the complete opposite of what an artistic endeavor should be. The assembly line crap you hear in films etc. is the result. How's that even a "dream job"?

If you're trying to write and produce music that actually means something, it's gonna take time - it has to. But goddamn, it's tedious. The computer nonsense drives me crazy - the samples, the software, the clicking, fumbling and massaging of performances ... not sure I'd ever wanna go 100% pro with this.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 29, 2018)

Tod said:


> Wow, 20, that's just getting started. Mid 40s are a good time for serious reflection, it might be the middle of your life.
> 
> I wrote a few songs for my self back in my early career, but then I became a producer and my song writing kind of fell by the way side. I ended up recording and arranging music for my clients instead. Well not entirely, I did write and produce a lot of jingles through 70s and 80s, but that don't count.
> 
> ...



Love the tune. Prolly shoulda pitched it to Engelbert Humperdinck and possibly Wayne Newton.


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## bill5 (Oct 29, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The computer nonsense drives me crazy - the samples, the software, the clicking, fumbling and massaging of performances ... not sure I'd ever wanna go 100% pro with this.


I'm sure. I wouldn't.  And I'm in I.T. And I know people who love the process and more power to them. But I hate it. I hate mixing, and even arranging mostly. The effects, which to use or not, how much, in what way, volume levels, it's all a royal pain. I wish I could just push a big button and it came out like I hear it in my head.


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## storyteller (Oct 29, 2018)

_Might seem like a random thought, but it is on the topic..._

I think MySpace was a thing of beauty back in the day... you know, back before social media became a dystopian nightmare of privacy invasion and hellish design? It was the perfect way to be you as a musician and a person, allowing friends to hear music that interested you (or that you had written) when they visited your page. It didn't matter if you were famous, did it for a living, or just having fun. Your page had the music you liked linked to it. I think it was the best balance of exposure for those “doing it for self-gratification” mostly because the human mind desires some form of acknowledgment with any creation and MySpace allowed a passive way to do that in a social context. It also was the best platform for viral growth and publicity of digital music, not to mention arguably a better social platform than Facebook. But then it faded away...

These days, a Soundcloud account requires marketing. YouTube is about engaging videos and not songs... and requires marketing. Facebook... well, it is a digital Mecca of privacy issues and doesn't have the music thing. Spotify and iTunes require marketing. Anyway... you get what I am saying. Today there is a void for musicians that once had a solution during the birth of social media. Everything became too compartmentalized.

Edit: Plus, having your own themes was a cool way to express yourself.


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## germancomponist (Oct 29, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> My day job is business. I have to talk business with people about stuff I do not care about. I have to travel to business conferences and pretend to want to get to know people who I dont have much in common with, about their businesses that I dont care about at all.
> 
> I have been approaching composition with the aim of it being a business one day, and the more time I spend at my day job, the more I wonder if I should be trying to turn one of my favourite things to do on this planet into a business.
> 
> ...


I suggest you to read Ralph Waldo Emerson. I am sure you will find/get good answers ..... .


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## JohnG (Oct 29, 2018)

LowweeK said:


> Of course, I've asked myself :
> - Does making music *just* a hobby prevent me from improving my music skills ? No.



Very true.



LowweeK said:


> - Does music as a hobby make the music pro I know look me down ? No. In fact, they perfectly understand this.



Also true. Our first duty is to honour our obligations to our family or children or anyone else who depends on us, not indulge in "following your passion" (a reckless, childish expression that drives me nuts). 

Most musicians have had times when they wondered where the next gig would come from, so I think you're right to say that pros "perfectly understand this." Poverty is not a crime, but it's not inspiring either.



LowweeK said:


> - Does having a main job kill the pleasure of making music ? No, on the contrary.



Then you have it made.


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## KEM (Oct 29, 2018)

Honestly... no, not at all.

I love writing music, but I just don't see the point or purpose unless it's for a project, I only truly enjoy it when it's not for me.


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## Dear Villain (Oct 29, 2018)

I write as a form of self-expression. My goal is always to get live performances of my music, but in the classical world, it's (unfortunately) rarely for money. The joy of sharing my music with performers and a live audience is a greater thrill than money to me, although I do get commissions and paid opportunities too from time to time.

Cheers!
Dave
p.s. On this forum, it usually is "music just for me" as rarely do people comment and/or listen to the tracks I share.


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## Richard Birkin (Nov 1, 2018)

Sounds like your job is in the same realm as mine. I was involved with the creative side of websites and apps for years while touring with my band. It was exhausting, using all my available holidays, evenings and weekends for gigs, tours, recording sessions. 

It might not be possible, but try thinking about how the two worlds (music and work) could mash together in an interesting way. 

My first string quartet session was paid for out of the budget for an interactive digital installation that I won a pitch for after going freelance (the project needed original music as well as the tech). That piece of music then got some good syncs a few years later, which paid for another thing and then another thing. 

It can be really disheartening in those periods where nothing happens in your music world! Like JohnG says, there are always periods where you're wondering where the next gig will come from. And I know that it can be very frustrating having to get invested in other people's non-musical things as a job. 

But hang in there, keep creating and experimenting with musical ideas and publishing formats. And if you haven't got the creative energy after a day at a conference centre, don't sweat it. Just take it slow and the natural thing will happen.


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## Richard Birkin (Nov 1, 2018)

Sounds like your job is in the same realm as mine. I was involved with the creative side of websites and apps for years while touring with my band. It was exhausting, using all my available holidays, evenings and weekends for gigs, tours, recording sessions. 

It might not be possible, but try thinking about how the two worlds (music and work) could mash together in an interesting way.

My first string quartet session was paid for out of the budget for an interactive digital installation that I won a pitch for after going freelance (the project needed original music as well as the tech). That piece of music then got some good syncs a few years later, which paid for another thing and then another thing.

It can be really disheartening in those periods where nothing happens in your music world! Like JohnG says, there are always periods where you're wondering where the next gig will come from.


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## toomanynotes (Nov 8, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I can absolutely relate to this, 100%. Depending on duration and complexity, it takes me weeks to complete a piece. The main reason, of course, are my regular job and other real life responsibilities, but it's also this incredibly tedious, difficult and goddamn boring process. I'm very familiar with the feeling of having wasted a sunday on dorking around with CC data. Sometimes I have an unfinished piece laying around for weeks until I finally complete it because the thought of dorking around on the computer with this stuff suddenly reminds me of all the other things I could do with my life.
> 
> It's ridiculous when you think about it, how this whole music for media industry thing a lot of times is about racing the clock, toiling away like an idiot and finding ways to shit out cues as fast as possible. It's pure idiocy and the complete opposite of what an artistic endeavor should be. The assembly line crap you hear in films etc. is the result. How's that even a "dream job"?
> 
> If you're trying to write and produce music that actually means something, it's gonna take time - it has to. But goddamn, it's tedious. The computer nonsense drives me crazy - the samples, the software, the clicking, fumbling and massaging of performances ... not sure I'd ever wanna go 100% pro with this.


I agree too, .i can’t stand the time wasting with mock ups, totally soul destroying, the only real dream job is writing to paper for a real orchestra, for an live audience and yourself.


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