# Anyone have experience with the new Studiologic controllers (SL88 Grand/Studio)?



## rgames

I'm in the market for a compact 88-key weighted controller. I'm using a Yamaha S90ES right now and I like the keybed but I'm building a new desk around the new keyboard and the S90ES is just too big. Plus, I only need a keyboard controller - I don't care about onboard sound or CC controllers.

The new Studiologic contollers caught my eye but I can't find anywhere to play them (I'm in DC). Has anyone put fingers on one and have some thoughts about comparables that I might be able to take a look at?

The Doepfer 88-key is probably the most compact but the wooden keys on the new Studiologic SL88 Grand have me intrigued. The Sl88 Studio has a differebt keybed (no wood) so I'm curious to know how different they feel and what they compare to.

Thanks,

rgames


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## mickeyl

I'm very interested in the SL88 Grand, especially the three joysticks seem to make much sense for virtual instruments (think controlling vibrato and expression etc.).

Studiologic just recently confirmed that they're exhibiting on MESSE 2016 (7th to 10th of April this year), which I'll attend. Will report later then.


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## muk

Some time ago I tested the older models (Numa nano, VMK-188). The keybed is quite good for a midi controller, but that second part of the sentence is important. I could play on it, but I wasn't able to get a nuanced performance from those keybeds. I'm a trained pianist though, so I'm picky about keybeds. The best solution I found was going for a digital piano rather than a midi controller. The keybeds are really miles ahead. Don't know if you can take them apart easily though, which seems to be important if you want to fit it into a desk.


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## lumcas

I used to own SL880 and VMK-188. Pretty good keybed for a controller as Muk says (a trained pianist here too), the main issues I had were occasional random reboots or sometimes the unit just stopped sending midi data and I had to turn it off and on again.
While I completely understand your question, any keybed response and feeling is a very personal thing and you'll never know unless you try for yourself - it's just like the real pianos. And I'm wondering if I might ever get used to these joysticks - I hate those on Roland keyboards with a real passion....very unresponsive and unusable... I know it's a tough situation when there's no unit to try around...

Alternatively, you could just pull the trigger and return it when you don't like it.


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## gpax

After reading your post, I checked to see if the SL website states whether they are still using Fatar keybeds or not. These used to vary also: I (still) own an original white SL Numa with graduated-style weighted keys. Perhaps if you can determine if the SL88 is using Fatar, you could test out another brand near you that uses the same keybed? 

Richard, I assure you I am not one to stir flames, but my experience resonates with what Lumcas posted. Though on the Mac end, StudioLogic completely dropped the integrated software and firmware support for my Numa, eight years ago. They actually never directly provided it.

I'll spare you the three years of emails attempting to update and resolve dropped connections, except to say I personally would hesitate now to buy a StudioLogic controller (or any 88 dependent on firmware updates), without being emphatically guaranteed of ongoing development. 

Perhaps they can offer that stability now; I long ago sidestepped the matter by connecting via MIDI (not USB), forgoing the integrated features once I got my settings. Though it's old news now for me, it's also still my only 88 weighted grand amongst my other keyboards (and still a great keyboard to play).

FWIW, I chanced to stop by their booth while at NAMM, and even debated whether to say anything - after all these years. But I did, and I received both concerned and courteous responses as I relayed my experience. They even admitted fault, asking me to contact them on the matter, which I did recently during a "what the heck" moment. Who knows...

But looking at the site just now, and reading the specs for the keyboard you mentioned, compelled me to come back and gently wave a caution flag.


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## mickeyl

Sl88 is advertised as being tp40wood.


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## rgames

mickeyl said:


> Sl88 is advertised as being tp40wood.


The SL88 Grand uses the TP40Wood but the SL88 Studio uses a different keybed. That's the $400 price difference - seems pretty high.

I think I can get my hands on the same keybed as the SL88 Studio but I'd really like to try the TP40Wood. I don't know what else uses that keybed.

I guess I'll just have to order one and give it a shot. Sure hope I don't need to send it back - I don't have a car and I bet it's a pain to haul that thing on the DC metro! Might cost me a fortune to schedule a pickup...

Thanks for the info,

rgames


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## muk

The Numa Concert, Numa Nero, Physis Piano H1, and Physis K4 GW all use the TP40Wood keybed. Here is a pretty useful list about the keybeds used in different controllers:

http://www.musiker-board.de/threads/verbaute-tastaturen-sammelthread.435157/


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## Ethos

Here's why I love the StudioLogic / Doepfer keybeds. They are easily taken apart and customized.


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## Pablocrespo

Ethos said:


> Here's why I love the StudioLogic / Doepfer keybeds. They are easily taken apart and customized.



I did a similar thing with a yamaha p35 digital piano, took the keybed apart and put the logic board in a rack case hidden in the desk. So, if you don't have access to a doepfer you can do it with a yamaha (maybe a casio, kawai) keyboard. Some people say that digital pianos have better keybeds than controllers.


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## Vision

rgames said:


> I'm in the market for a compact 88-key weighted controller. I'm using a Yamaha S90ES right now and I like the keybed but I'm building a new desk around the new keyboard and the S90ES is just too big. Plus, I only need a keyboard controller - I don't care about onboard sound or CC controllers.
> 
> The new Studiologic contollers caught my eye but I can't find anywhere to play them (I'm in DC). Has anyone put fingers on one and have some thoughts about comparables that I might be able to take a look at?
> 
> The Doepfer 88-key is probably the most compact but the wooden keys on the new Studiologic SL88 Grand have me intrigued. The Sl88 Studio has a differebt keybed (no wood) so I'm curious to know how different they feel and what they compare to.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> rgames



How do you like the action of your s90es? I've had mine for about 5 years, and I hate the action. It's too heavy for me. I'm in MD btw, about 10 min away from the national harbor.


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## mickeyl

Just returned from MESSE 2016 where I had some time to play the SL88 grand (TP40/WOOD) and the SL88 studio (TP100LR). The grand felt absolutely great. I loved the action and the key coating. In direct comparison, the studio on the other hand felt somewhat cheap / plastic and the touch was too springy.

The joysticks were a bit flimsy, should feel a bit more solid, but I guess I could get used to. So for me it's set. Going to buy the SL88 grand asap.

BTW., since the Komplete Kontrol S88 is said to feature the TP100LR as well, I don't need to try this either (not that Native Instruments would show up on Messe...)


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## DynamicK

@mickeyl I am also interested in these. Just wondered if you are a pianist and therefore preferred the Grand against the Studio? Would the Studio be more suited to non pianists? Thanks


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## mickeyl

@DynamicK Although I didn't receive formal training, I come from the piano, yes, but I did play a lot of semi weighted keyboards over the years. Chances are someone more synth-focused may like the TP100LR's lighter touch better than the TP40WOOD, so yes, the Studio may in fact be better for you.


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## DynamicK

mickeyl said:


> @DynamicK Although I didn't receive formal training, I come from the piano, yes, but I did play a lot of semi weighted keyboards over the years. Chances are someone more synth-focused may like the TP100LR's lighter touch better than the TP40WOOD, so yes, the Studio may in fact be better for you.


Thanks....I see that the Studio is now available in the UK so time to retire my old VMK 176 with the faulty A2 key


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## MacTomBie

Funny - I'm also using an S90es and I'm also building a new desk, in a new house. But I decided to stay with it as I like it very much and the onboard sounds are pretty usable. I designed the desk around its big size, but I haven't tested it yet as my gear is still in the old house.












I'm not sure how good it will work, but for sure it will be better than what I have now - a desk and the S90es 90 degrees on the left side.


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## mc_deli

Bling! Lovely work with the desk and decor


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## compos3r

@mikeyl Curious, did you end up buy the SL88 Grand? If so, what are your thoughts after having used it for a bit?


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## mickeyl

Unfortunately not yet. It's on my list, but I have kind of a deal with my wife... she demands me to finish a _new_ song, before I'm allowed to spend more money on equipment *sigh*

I'm working on it


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## chimuelo

Nice custom desks and 88 modded cases.
I have played the TP Wood before and its really nice.
Its so nice they should build software and include a PhyMod designed specifically for it.
I tire from the multitude of Fisher-Price POS88 keybeds out there.


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## compos3r

mickeyl said:


> Unfortunately not yet. It's on my list, but I have kind of a deal with my wife... she demands me to finish a _new_ song, before I'm allowed to spend more money on equipment *sigh*
> 
> I'm working on it



It's a good thing that we have our wives to help us maintain sanity with these types of things. :-D

I'm considering switching from an Akai MPK88 to the SL88 Grand. The MPK88 is giving me grief with one of the keys triggering double notes, no matter how hard the key is pressed. Akai tells me that it requires replacing the whole key bed at half of what the whole controller costs these days. Plus, the weighted keys on the Akai are fairly loud, so I'm looking at replacing it.

I may give the SL88 a try and see how it fairs.


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## byzantium

@mickeyl, @compos3r, others? Did you buy the SL88 Grand in the end? Pleased or any issues?

I tried one today and really liked it. It had some random inconsistent action on some keys (heavy/light), but other than that it felt very nice to play. I'm just a bit worried about key build quality / reputation. Thanks.


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## Jono

MacTomBie said:


> Funny - I'm also using an S90es and I'm also building a new desk, in a new house. But I decided to stay with it as I like it very much and the onboard sounds are pretty usable. I designed the desk around its big size, but I haven't tested it yet as my gear is still in the old house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how good it will work, but for sure it will be better than what I have now - a desk and the S90es 90 degrees on the left side.


What wonderful wood is this?


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## MacTomBie

Jono said:


> What wonderful wood is this?


It's ebony wood veneer.


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## Karma

MacTomBie said:


>


Oh man, that is quite something! Gonna have to get me a studio like that...


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## byzantium

In response to the OP, I played an SL88 Grand (a dealer had ordered one for a customer, and they kindly let me know in was in their offices before they shipped it to them).

It was really lovely to play, lovely feel, texturally and weight-wise. Keys not too heavy or light for me. Best of what I had played. (The whole machine weighs a ton though, very solid construction). However, on the downside, some keys (a bit higher up in the keybed) were of an inconsistent weight / pressure to play, which was a little bit of a concern. (and also a slight squeak / noise from some keys more than others). I ended up buying a Roland A-88 which isn't as nice a feel as the SL88, mainly because of the form factor (and Roland's rep for reliability, and its quietness (rubbery bed under keys (which is a double-edged sword, gives a funny feel, but does keep the keyed quieter) - it is slim and has no knobs on top so I can build it in to a desk (like the Doepfers, which I couldn't find anywhere) for ergonomic reasons / using a computer keyboard / mouse on top. So definitely worth checking out the SL88 if you can find one somewhere.


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## Maximvs

Anyone has any experience with Studiologic Numa Compact http://studiologic-music.com/products/numa_compact/

Thanks in advance for any feedback,

Max


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## stigc56

Ethos said:


> Here's why I love the StudioLogic / Doepfer keybeds. They are easily taken apart and customized.


what about buttons, display and sliders?


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## agarner32

Does anyone find it difficult to use a joy stick rather than a mod wheel? It's one of the reasons why I don't like Roland controllers. You have to always have your left hand on the joy stick or it bounces back to the middle. Also, maybe it's just me, but I could never control continuous data on the spring loaded joy sticks. I'd much prefer a mod wheel that stays in position.


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## John57

My understanding is that with the three joy sticks available on the Studiologic with the last one having no spring return on either X or Y axis. If Roland just had spring return just on the X axis it would have been better.


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## agarner32

John57 said:


> If Roland just had spring return just on the X axis it would have been better.


I completely agree. Having a spring for pitch bend is obviously a must, but not on the mod wheel when you're using it for continuous controllers like cc#1.


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## pranitkhedekar

*@Ethos *How do you control midi cc automation?


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## Kaufmanmoon

So any Grand users here still? Needing to update this year


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## Karma

Kaufmanmoon said:


> So any Grand users here still? Needing to update this year


I use the Grand.


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## Kaufmanmoon

Karma said:


> I use the Grand.


Ok. Cool. Are you happy with it Karma?


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## Karma

Kaufmanmoon said:


> Ok. Cool. Are you happy with it Karma?


I absolutely love it. Obviously if you can stretch your budget there are better - but for me personally it's fantastic.


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## SEA

Has anyone AB the SL88 Grand to the Yamaha S90 ES or XS? I just picked up a used S90 ES because to me the action beats everything out there.

Thanks!


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## munician

I tried the SL88Grand and took it home because the action just felt soo good in the store...but returned it the next day.

The encoder/maneuvering drove me crazy because it seemed so illogical - probably just a matter of getting used to... but some other things were really impossible: 
when you have it connected to your computer via USB you have to use the editor program, the onboard system doesn't work anymore.
It spit out some kind of weird midi data all the time.
When I pressed start in Logic, the Grand received some kind of data that messed up the whole internal memory, wiping out all the programs. I couldn't even start to work with it!

Probably just a bad unit but I didn't want to bother...and it seems like other people had a similar experience.

Too bad because I would have loved to try the joysticks, they felt good and usable but I didn't even get that far.


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## SEA

munician said:


> I tried the SL88Grand and took it home because the action just felt soo good in the store...but returned it the next day.
> 
> The encoder/maneuvering drove me crazy because it seemed so illogical - probably just a matter of getting used to... but some other things were really impossible:
> when you have it connected to your computer via USB you have to use the editor program, the onboard system doesn't work anymore.
> It spit out some kind of weird midi data all the time.
> When I pressed start in Logic, the Grand received some kind of data that messed up the whole internal memory, wiping out all the programs. I couldn't even start to work with it!
> 
> Probably just a bad unit but I didn't want to bother...and it seems like other people had a similar experience.
> 
> Too bad because I would have loved to try the joysticks, they felt good and usable but I didn't even get that far.



I just ordered both the SL 88 and the SL88 Grand from Sweetwater to try them out. I live in Florida and nobody has them here.

On the plus side I just bought a used S90 ES for $1,350 out the door cause the action is the best so far. I don't care about the sounds but the feel for my studio using VST and sample libs.

I'll be able to test all 3 side-by-side for a while and if the SL88 is great then I'll return the S90 ES. If I like the S90 ES better action and feel then I'll send them both back. I Kinda hope the less expensive one has a lighter feel but plays great! I had an Alesis Fusion years ago with a Fatar action and it played like butter!


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## munician

Please post what you find out!


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## SEA

I'm REALLY enjoying this S90 ES. When I fired it up in my studio with my Blue Sky System One Monitors (it has a 62 lb sub) for a few secs I thought I was playing one of my VST grands ! LOL

The only thing I wish was it could play WAV files and record when you have a fresh idea. The S90 XS does that and I happened to find a used one for only $10 more than the S90 ES. So I ordered that to AB with the ES. I didn't realize that the ES is based on the Motif ES and the XS on the Motif XS so more sounds PLUS more controls.

I don't know if Yamaha changed the action between the ES and the XS. My Sweetwater rep said that some Yamaha's did use a Fatar action. I'll contact Yamaha and ask what action are in these 2 keyboards. It plays better to me than the Montage (more like a piano) which makes sense and it's faster since it is a Stage Piano/Synth Hybrid. Yamaha hasn't come up with anything quite like it. Their current Stage Piano (CP40) action might be closed to this action wise. I believe I played one a few years ago and it was pretty good.

The SL88 are on backorder. The SL88 Grand should ship in a few days where the SL88 without the wood keys will come in about 2 weeks. That gives me plenty of time to decide if the SL88 Grand plays better than the S90 EX and XS and if so, I'll send back one of the S90's (probably the ES). 

Then when the SL88 arrives I'll of had some time with the SL88 Grand and one of the S90's.

As a side note, I have also tried the Kawai MP11. Man people who play people say it's the best and it does feel good, however the after you play a key it is slower to "Bounce" back up (not sure what the term is for his) repeat? It was very hard to play a 1 note trill using both hands and my index fingers. I was playing faster than the keyboard could handle. Worse response than any keyboard I have tested in this way. The S90 ES however respond very fast and much easier to trigger a 1 note trill. I'll test the S90 XS to see if it responds the same as the ES.

I haven't tried the Kawai VPC 1 yet since they didn't have one at Sam Ash. It has the RM3II wooden-key, graded-hammer action with counterbalancing which is totally different than the MP7 and MP11 and looks like it wouldn't have this problem. However it's a bit pricy with no sounds and HEAVY! LOL! It definitely would stay in the studio where the others could be used to play out with. I might have to try it if the SL88's plays better than the S90's.


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## SEA

Well the S90 XS arrived yesterday and I'm disappointed that it doesn't play as well as the S90 ES! It plays like a Motif (a bit heavier than the ES) and when you try to play PP it's like the keys stop falling and you have to apply more pressure which throws off my playing.

Also it doesn't sound as good (the pianos) and the headphone DAC is like 1/2 the volume of the ES and doesn't sound as good either (and that tiny screen doesn't help either).

No wonder Yamaha stop making them. Instead of improving the ES they messed it up!

I am tempted to just keep the ES but I need to give the SL88 and SL88 Grand a fair shake as well.

My 1 beef about the SL88's is they don't have the pitch and mod wheels which I love on the Yamaha's! Korg and Roland have that funky joy stick that is spring loaded so the mod springs back. The work around is assign a slider for mod.

The SL88 seem to be back ordered so it might be a while before testing. Ill report back with my findings when I do. 

The other option would be the Yamaha stage pianos (CP40 and CP4) and the Kurzweil Artis series.


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## patrickpuszko

I got used to the SL88s joystick pretty quickly. IMHO i find it even more accurate/comfortable, than with the good ol' MW. The keybed is really providing a realistic feeling, but after not even a whole year of usage, 5 of the keys are creating a "clicking" sound when being released. It seems like the rebound is hitting a spot, where there used to be some sort of padding.
And even though i don't use it: The LCD screen seems so lose colors/contrast. That's really a bummer :(


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## SEA

patrickpuszko said:


> I got used to the SL88s joystick pretty quickly. IMHO i find it even more accurate/comfortable, than with the good ol' MW. The keybed is really providing a realistic feeling, but after not even a whole year of usage, 5 of the keys are creating a "clicking" sound when being released. It seems like the rebound is hitting a spot, where there used to be some sort of padding.
> And even though i don't use it: The LCD screen seems so lose colors/contrast. That's really a bummer :(



Do you have the SL88 Grand or Studio? I have both coming in a few days. Sweetwater had them in stock and I have about 15 days to return the S90 ES so... guess I'll eat the shipping if the SL88s don't work out. 

I'm fine with the non wood Studio as long as it plays as well as the S90 ES. It would be great if it's even a lighter feel. Saves the wrist and fingered after a long day in the studio and less weight for portability.


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## Nmargiotta

I tested the SL88 studio and grand side by side and preferred the studio. Almost identical action but the studio seemed just a bit faster while still giving me a great hammer piano feel. At 500$ the studio is a no brainer. I really like the UI on the keyboard I find setting up a few presets via the computer interface and then never touching it again. The joysticks are fantastic. I love joystick 3 with full x/y no spring on either axis. I prefer it to any fader at this point. The other benefit to the studio is its significantly lighter, the grand is so heavy!


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## Nmargiotta

I ended up purchasing the studio and have had it for about 2 months I really like it.


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## patrickpuszko

SEA said:


> Do you have the SL88 Grand or Studio? I have both coming in a few days. Sweetwater had them in stock and I have about 15 days to return the S90 ES so... guess I'll eat the shipping if the SL88s don't work out.
> 
> I'm fine with the non wood Studio as long as it plays as well as the S90 ES. It would be great if it's even a lighter feel. Saves the wrist and fingered after a long day in the studio and less weight for portability.


I have the SL88 Grand...well had it...


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## SEA

Well I finally tested both the SL88 Studio and the SL88 Grand yesterday. I couldn't believe how bad they were. 
I know others like them but when I went to rest my hand on the keys like a real piano where the keybed would fall and trigger the notes, these stopped like 1/3 the way down at best. However, when I tried this test with the S90 ES I could place my hand on the keys and they would all fall naturally to the keybed.

When I tried to play a simple run it was like running on sand at the beach vs. the S90 ES where it played much faster and lighter. It was very disappointing and there was no way I could even keep one of these controllers. So with the help of my wife (and 1 hour of packing them back up since they are doubled boxed) now all that's left is for Fedex to come and take them back.

Oh well. At least now I know. YMMV.


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## Maximvs

SEA said:


> Well I finally tested both the SL88 Studio and the SL88 Grand yesterday. I couldn't believe how bad they were.
> I know others like them but when I went to rest my hand on the keys like a real piano where the keybed would fall and trigger the notes, these stopped like 1/3 the way down at best. However, when I tried this test with the S90 ES I could place my hand on the keys and they would all fall naturally to the keybed.
> 
> When I tried to play a simple run it was like running on sand at the beach vs. the S90 ES where it played much faster and lighter. It was very disappointing and there was no way I could even keep one of these controllers. So with the help of my wife (and 1 hour of packing them back up since they are doubled boxed) now all that's left is for Fedex to come and take them back.
> 
> Oh well. At least now I know. YMMV.


Thanks for your feedback... Testing out gear like a controller or digital piano before purchasing one is a must... In the past several months I have been testing all sort of 88-keys controllers and stage pianos. It is very subjective and personal the touch and feel of a keyboard, what is good for one person is unsatisfactory to another. As far as the SL88 Studio and SL88 Grand are concerned, I agree with your experience; I also didn't like them very much after being used to play a Kawai MP8 for a few years. For my studio setup I ended up purchasing a Yamaha CP4 to replace the Kawai MP8 which is a tank and very heavy... I needed something more lightweight to also carry around when working remotely outside my studio.

I am familiar with the S90 ES you mentioned, after being used to play that keyboard is no surprise that you find the SL88 models not so great.

Cheers, Max


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## SEA

Massimo said:


> Thanks for your feedback... Testing out gear like a controller or digital piano before purchasing one is a must... In the past several months I have been testing all sort of 88-keys controllers and stage pianos. It is very subjective and personal the touch and feel of a keyboard, what is good for one person is unsatisfactory to another. As far as the SL88 Studio and SL88 Grand are concerned, I agree with your experience; I also didn't like them very much after being used to play a Kawai MP8 for a few years. For my studio setup I ended up purchasing a Yamaha CP4 to replace the Kawai MP8 which is a tank and very heavy... I needed something more lightweight to also carry around when working remotely outside my studio.
> 
> I am familiar with the S90 ES you mentioned, after being used to play that keyboard is no surprise that you find the SL88 models not so great.
> 
> Cheers, Max



Thanks for the reply Max! I love the S90 ES for the feel, but as far as a controller and sounds, I'm considering (once again) the Kurzweil PC3K8. I have a great deal on the used market. 

Currently listen to the demos on Sweetwater Sound Library. What I love about the Kurz is you don't get the "Hiccup" when switching patches and the sounds are incredible. You can also layer like percussion wfor live improve which is what I do a lot of so.... the questions are:

1. Do I JUST want a great feeling keyboard for my studio? If so, the S90ES. 

2. Do I want one with awesome sounds and great as a controller and liver performance? 
Then the Kurz wins hands down.

I just trying to remember how the Kurz plays to the S90 ES. From the Kurz I have had in the past they weren't bad. As long as it's relatively close to the ES then that's fine by me.

BTW - Have you tried the action on the PC3K8?

Thanks!
Jamie


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## Maximvs

SEA said:


> Thanks for the reply Max! I love the S90 ES for the feel, but as far as a controller and sounds, I'm considering (once again) the Kurzweil PC3K8. I have a great deal on the used market.
> 
> Currently listen to the demos on Sweetwater Sound Library. What I love about the Kurz is you don't get the "Hiccup" when switching patches and the sounds are incredible. You can also layer like percussion wfor live improve which is what I do a lot of so.... the questions are:
> 
> 1. Do I JUST want a great feeling keyboard for my studio? If so, the S90ES.
> 
> 2. Do I want one with awesome sounds and great as a controller and liver performance?
> Then the Kurz wins hands down.
> 
> I just trying to remember how the Kurz plays to the S90 ES. From the Kurz I have had in the past they weren't bad. As long as it's relatively close to the ES then that's fine by me.
> 
> BTW - Have you tried the action on the PC3K8?
> 
> Thanks!
> Jamie


Hi Jemie, 

thanks to your feedback... Unfortunately Kurzweil are pretty expensive here in Switzerland and the second hand situation is not great at all. I never tested the PC3K8 but looks like a great keyboard.

I am personally not concerned much with sounds because 95% of the sounds I use are from Virtual Instruments.


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## SEA

Massimo said:


> Hi Jemie,
> 
> thanks to your feedback... Unfortunately Kurzweil are pretty expensive here in Switzerland and the second hand situation is not great at all. I never tested the PC3K8 but looks like a great keyboard.
> 
> I am personally not concerned much with sounds because 95% of the sounds I use are from Virtual Instruments.



Ya! I use it for VSTs as well, but for live the PC3K8 is great.

Evil Dragon on the forums just told me that the Kurz do not have triple sensor action which is important for trills and as a pianist I do a lot of those 1 note trills using both hands. I could do them well on my S90 ES but not on my Yamaha P-95 (I just hooked it back up). So... I'm going to try the Roland RD2000. I guess it has the triple sensor action.


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## SEA

Just got back from Sam Ash. I tried the Montage, the RD2000, The MP11, and the Kronos.

The Montage as the best. Plays as good as my S90 ES I think, just a bit different. I remember when I had the S90 ES side by side with the Montage at the store before I bought the S90 ES and then the S90 ES was a bit better to me but the Montage could work as well.

The RD2000 was pretty good. A little heavier than the Montage and the S90 ES but still workable.

The Kronos came in 3rd and wasn't TOO bad. A little bit sluggish but if that was the keyboard you wanted for sounds then I cold get used to it. However going back to the Montage the Montage was like "Oh Yeah! THIS plays WAY Better!"

The MP11 was not too bad. I could do 1 note trills on it where the one I tried a few years ago I couldn't. A bit more sluggish than the Montage but could work as well.

So now I might pull the trigger on the Kurzweil PC3K8. My wife says "Maybe you need more than 1 keyboard!" LOL Now THAT's the kind of wife all musicians should have right?


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## Maximvs

SEA said:


> Ya! I use it for VSTs as well, but for live the PC3K8 is great.
> 
> Evil Dragon on the forums just told me that the Kurz do not have triple sensor action which is important for trills and as a pianist I do a lot of those 1 note trills using both hands. I could do them well on my S90 ES but not on my Yamaha P-95 (I just hooked it back up). So... I'm going to try the Roland RD2000. I guess it has the triple sensor action.


If you have a chance also test Yamaha CP4 which has triple-sensor keyboard action. I also use trills and advanced ornamentation in my playing and with the CP4 I can trill on individual keys with one hands easily... this is a big step forward compare to the Kawai MP8 I had which was great but could not do individual notes trill with one hand.

Cheers, Max


----------



## SEA

Massimo said:


> If you have a chance also test Yamaha CP4 which has triple-sensor keyboard action. I also use trills and advanced ornamentation in my playing and with the CP4 I can trill on individual keys with one hands easily... this is a big step forward compare to the Kawai MP8 I had which was great but could not do individual notes trill with one hand.
> 
> Cheers, Max



I tried the kawai MP11, RD2000, Montage, and Kronos. All could trill on one note. The RD2000 perhaps a bit better but the RD action was heavier or stiffer (if that's the proper word). 

As a jazz/rock/contemporary pianist, I play more free form that doesn't require me to perform a single note trill with one hand, although in my practice time I DO practice one handed single note trills. 

If I was performing classical pieces then I would probably have to find the best action that would alllow this.


----------



## Kaufmanmoon

Bumping this thread. 
I've never had to delve into midi settings on my keyboard before. 
I ended up grabbing an Sl88 studio as the price was really good. 
The only problem I'm having is I'm getting doubled midi notes in logic at its default preset on the SL88 (i'm not wanting to use any of the sounds on the keyboard)
If I turn the wheel to the last patch (250) I don't have that problem.
I'm sure it's just a midi channel thing but can anyone who owns one tell me the quickest way so I can just turn it on without having to change patch.


----------



## agarner32

You probably need to set "Local" to off which will turn off the internal sounds. The manual should show how to do that. Hope that helps.


----------



## Kaufmanmoon

agarner32 said:


> You probably need to set "Local" to off which will turn off the internal sounds. The manual should show how to do that. Hope that helps.


I saw something about "local" when looking on google for midi doubling problems. I can't see a setting for this in the manual unfortunately. It must be called something else perhaps to do with the fact the SL88 has 4 zones going on perhaps.


----------



## brek

Kaufmanmoon said:


> I saw something about "local" when looking on google for midi doubling problems. I can't see a setting for this in the manual unfortunately. It must be called something else perhaps to do with the fact the SL88 has 4 zones going on perhaps.



I went through this about a year ago when I first got the keyboard. You're right, it does have to do with the 4 zones. I used the desktop software (I think it's called SLedit?) to disable 3 of the 4 zones and save that as the default patch.


----------



## Nmargiotta

Kaufmanmoon said:


> Bumping this thread.
> I've never had to delve into midi settings on my keyboard before.
> I ended up grabbing an Sl8
> The only problem I'm having is I'm getting doubled midi notes in logic at its default preset on the SL88 (i'm not wanting to use any of the sounds on the keyboard)
> If I turn the wheel to the last patch (250) I don't have that problem.
> I'm sure it's just a midi channel thing but can anyone who owns one tell me the quickest way so I can just turn it on without having to change patch.



I had the very same issue, and here is how I fixed it:

If you look in your midi event list you will see the duplicate note associated to a midi channel different from 1 (in my case midi was being written as channels 1 & 2) you can easily delete the unwanted duplicate notes from the midi event list and sort by midi channel. However to fix this from happening you need to make sure the Sl88 is only outputting one midi channel. You can quickly do this from the screen and knob on the interface, but I suggest using the Sl Editor tool and saving a program setting for this to your keyboard. That way you won't have to disable the other "zones" each time you turn on/off your device. 

The "zones" are the multicolored parameter boxes you see on your display. 






When multiple zones are enabled and lit up, the keyboard will output multiple midi channels. By default zone 1 outputs to midi channel 1, zone 2 to midi 2, zone 3 to midi 1 and zone 4 to midi 2. So what you need to do is either disable the other zones via the knobs and display on your keyboard, or save a program with the unused zones disabled. 
To save a new program use the SL Editor tool (which is a fantastic tool for customizing the settings on the keyboard) with zones 2-4 disabled. You will then be using just one zone that will output one midi channel which means no more duplicates in your event list and piano roll. To see what my saved Program 001 looks like check out the attached screen shot. 

Let me know if that did the trick. One other thing to remember is there are no pre-loaded sounds on the keyboard it is simply a midi controller so thus "local" mode as described doesn't exist for this keyboard.


----------



## John57

The four zones allows each zone to have separate MIDI channels if setup that way in order for each zone to play different instruments. You would have to set the key ranges in order to prevent overlap for this to work. For me I just turnoff the other three zones until I have a need for it. Also do not upgrade the firmware to 1.6 otherwise you loose the first two pedals which can no longer be assigned to a CC controller. The firmware 1.6 changes the first two pedals as PROGRAM CHANGE messages which I have no need for at this time. I had all kind of messages being send by the pedals one and two and mess up on what I was trying to do when upgrade the firmware to 1.6 I was able to downgrade the firmware back to 1.52. Each time I turn on my SL88 Studio only one zone is active.


----------



## Kaufmanmoon

Nmargiotta said:


> I had the very same issue, and here is how I fixed it:
> 
> If you look in your midi event list you will see the duplicate note associated to a midi channel different from 1 (in my case midi was being written as channels 1 & 2) you can easily delete the unwanted duplicate notes from the midi event list and sort by midi channel. However to fix this from happening you need to make sure the Sl88 is only outputting one midi channel. You can quickly do this from the screen and knob on the interface, but I suggest using the Sl Editor tool and saving a program setting for this to your keyboard. That way you won't have to disable the other "zones" each time you turn on/off your device.
> 
> The "zones" are the multicolored parameter boxes you see on your display.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When multiple zones are enabled and lit up, the keyboard will output multiple midi channels. By default zone 1 outputs to midi channel 1, zone 2 to midi 2, zone 3 to midi 1 and zone 4 to midi 2. So what you need to do is either disable the other zones via the knobs and display on your keyboard, or save a program with the unused zones disabled.
> To save a new program use the SL Editor tool (which is a fantastic tool for customizing the settings on the keyboard) with zones 2-4 disabled. You will then be using just one zone that will output one midi channel which means no more duplicates in your event list and piano roll. To see what my saved Program 001 looks like check out the attached screen shot.
> 
> Let me know if that did the trick. One other thing to remember is there are no pre-loaded sounds on the keyboard it is simply a midi controller so thus "local" mode as described doesn't exist for this keyboard.



Fantastic, some great replies, thank you guys for taking the time to help. @John57 do you have a link to the 1.52 firmware as mine shipped with 1.6
just in case I run into problems?
I've muted the 3 other zones and saved it as a preset.
Working!


----------



## steveo42

Any recent reports on reliability of the Studio Grand SL88? I had one of the older Fatar actions and spent far too much time repairing hammers, felt and other parts of the action. Still, this looks like a nice unit for the price. I'd like the RD2000 but the price is more than I want to spend. AI'm a pro jazz player who will be using it for VSTi. Currently using an older Roland RD150 but don't know what vintage the action is. It feels good to me but I need more control over fast notes, ie:triple sensor I'm thinking. So how is the SL88 holding up? Any websites/blogs with user complaints on reliability etc? TIA! Happy New Year everyone!


----------



## John57

Kaufmanmoon said:


> Fantastic, some great replies, thank you guys for taking the time to help. @John57 do you have a link to the 1.52 firmware as mine shipped with 1.6
> just in case I run into problems?
> I've muted the 3 other zones and saved it as a preset.
> Working!


I send you a E-mail from your web page. A MIDI Utility called MIDI-OX is good to have on hand for troubleshooting purposes.


----------



## webraider1972

John57 said:


> The four zones allows each zone to have separate MIDI channels if setup that way in order for each zone to play different instruments. You would have to set the key ranges in order to prevent overlap for this to work. For me I just turnoff the other three zones until I have a need for it. Also do not upgrade the firmware to 1.6 otherwise you loose the first two pedals which can no longer be assigned to a CC controller. The firmware 1.6 changes the first two pedals as PROGRAM CHANGE messages which I have no need for at this time. I had all kind of messages being send by the pedals one and two and mess up on what I was trying to do when upgrade the firmware to 1.6 I was able to downgrade the firmware back to 1.52. Each time I turn on my SL88 Studio only one zone is active.



I had this problem too. I contacted Fatar support via email, but right after I contacted them, I did a full restore (which wipes out all settings, but keeps the firmware etc.) This fixed everything. The next day (with-in 24 hours) I did get a response that the update must have accidentally activated some of the extra features of the firmware. One of their suggestions as a last resort was a full restore. You can do a full a restore from the keyboards control panel. This will wipe out ANY settings you have started to customize and reverts the keyboard back to factory settings, keeping the firmware. It purges the memory. 

I'm grateful Fatar did respond but I'm thinking they should post something about this issue, or recommend that people do a restore after they run the update. Other than this it is a very solid keyboard. I went with the Studio over the Grand because I prefer something that is Bus Powered which eliminates many of the alternate keyboards mentioned in this thread. I don't travel with mine but if you are traveling, I think this controller has a lot to offer in that it is bus powered as I mentioned, and you can add the optional music stand and or lap top stand. 

The action is great in my opinion, and I am a Pianist. Is it a perfect duplicate of an acoustic Steinway Grand? No, but no electric keyboard really is. It's good enough especially considering the price. The thing about action (whether electric of acoustic) is it's more of a personal thing. Some of you will like it, some of you won't. I like it. My advice is make sure you can return it (ie.. the store has a return policy) if you aren't able to audition it in the store. 

When you get it, if you are going to update the firmware, do it right away, before you start tweaking settings. Then do a full restore, after you restart the keyboard. You'll be back in business.


----------



## jamwerks

Did anyone get to play the new KORG D1?


----------



## jydeda

jamwerks said:


> Did anyone get to play the new KORG D1?


No but I ordered one. I needed something stripped back, no bells and whistles. (A bit like a Rhodes) No thousands of patches to scroll through to find a decent keyboard sound like my Korg N364, no distracting adjusters and controls. Just switch on and play. I guess for the money, if this is not what you are looking for in terms of performance you may find it a bit too stripped back, and there are are lots of other keyboards out there that are all singing and all dancing for that kind of money RRP =£519.00 Not inc. delivery


----------



## Jason Madeja

Hi folks, i just got the studiologic SL73 and need a bit of help. I'm brand new to midi so please be patient. I have the controller working in Logic Pro X but no matter which sound I select I always hear a piano with the selected sound. If I set it for drums I hear the drums, but also the piano. If I record and playback I only hear the drums. I am using only one zone on the controller, 2 - 4 are disabled. It's the same piano I hear if I don't have logic open at all and just play the controller. This makes me think it's coming from the controller but I don't think the controller has any internal sounds. Can anyone help with this?


----------



## Gerbil

steveo42 said:


> Any recent reports on reliability of the Studio Grand SL88? I had one of the older Fatar actions and spent far too much time repairing hammers, felt and other parts of the action. Still, this looks like a nice unit for the price. I'd like the RD2000 but the price is more than I want to spend. AI'm a pro jazz player who will be using it for VSTi. Currently using an older Roland RD150 but don't know what vintage the action is. It feels good to me but I need more control over fast notes, ie:triple sensor I'm thinking. So how is the SL88 holding up? Any websites/blogs with user complaints on reliability etc? TIA! Happy New Year everyone!



Sorry, a bit late to the party but I've had one for the past year and it's been fine. No issues I can think of except that I have to turn it on and off twice to connect after boot-up. 

I do love using the joysticks because they're conveniently placed for keyswitching and the unsprung 3rd one is perfect for controlling dynamics and vibrato simultaneously.


----------



## MatFluor

Good to know. I should receive mine next week after a 2.5 Months waiting period (wasn't in stock). Hyped for my first 88 Controller (currently have a Nektar LX49+)


----------



## steveo42

Gerbil said:


> Sorry, a bit late to the party but I've had one for the past year and it's been fine. No issues I can think of except that I have to turn it on and off twice to connect after boot-up.
> 
> I do love using the joysticks because they're conveniently placed for keyswitching and the unsprung 3rd one is perfect for controlling dynamics and vibrato simultaneously.



Thanks for the reply! It's always good to hear positive reports on weighted controllers.


----------



## Timski

Hi
I recently bought the SL73 Studio so wanted to add my limited experience thus far, for the benefit of others who may be on the fence.
I am not a pianist per se (more of a guitarist), but have played keys for about 25yrs in various guises and have owned a Rhodes Mk1 stage piano, Wurli EP200, clav D6 and a few different upright pianos. I also have a Hammond XK1 and a Roland A300 Pro for synth VSTs. All this to say I am familiar with a variety of keyboard instruments.
I mostly want to comment on the action as this is probably most peoples’ main concern, especially seeing as the SL studio models are not widely available to try out in stores.
When I first got the keyboard I was slightly disappointed at how stiff the keys felt compared to my acoustic piano and other, much more expensive keyboards I had played from the likes of Nord and Roland. The action was very reminiscent of my old Rhodes - that slushy feel where you have to really attack the keys to get it to jump out.
However, after several hours of playing I could swear the action has become much looser. Whether this is genuinely the case or whether it is just that I am used to it I don’t really know, but I certainly now really like the way it feels.
Plugging it into an iPad Air 2 and I playing through NeoSoul Keys Studio, Ravenscroft 275 and Audiokit FM Player is an absolute joy. I can even use the joysticks to control tremolo rate and depth on the EPs which is nice for those Chick Corea effects.
The fact is I now have a access to tremendous acoustic and electric pianos in portable and very nice feeling package for less than £400. Way cheaper than anything else out there (assuming you already have an iOS device).
And it fits like a glove into a Roland CB-B61 gigbag to be carried quite easily on the back or in one hand.


----------



## tnussb

John57 said:


> The four zones allows each zone to have separate MIDI channels if setup that way in order for each zone to play different instruments. You would have to set the key ranges in order to prevent overlap for this to work. For me I just turnoff the other three zones until I have a need for it. Also do not upgrade the firmware to 1.6 otherwise you loose the first two pedals which can no longer be assigned to a CC controller. The firmware 1.6 changes the first two pedals as PROGRAM CHANGE messages which I have no need for at this time. I had all kind of messages being send by the pedals one and two and mess up on what I was trying to do when upgrade the firmware to 1.6 I was able to downgrade the firmware back to 1.52. Each time I turn on my SL88 Studio only one zone is active.



I know I'm very late to the party, but since no one has replied regarding the "firmware 1.6" issue: 

It's no issue at all. You just need to turn off the PROGRAM CHANGE behavior of the pedals in the Global Settings and you get back the "normal functionality" (assign CC number to pedals in Zone settings). More details can be found in the manual (see support section on the studiologic homepage).


----------



## wolb1

steveo42 said:


> Any recent reports on reliability of the Studio Grand SL88? I had one of the older Fatar actions and spent far too much time repairing hammers, felt and other parts of the action. Still, this looks like a nice unit for the price. I'd like the RD2000 but the price is more than I want to spend. AI'm a pro jazz player who will be using it for VSTi. Currently using an older Roland RD150 but don't know what vintage the action is. It feels good to me but I need more control over fast notes, ie:triple sensor I'm thinking. So how is the SL88 holding up? Any websites/blogs with user complaints on reliability etc? TIA! Happy New Year everyone!



I have the SL88 Grand. My lcd died after about 6 months and had to have it replaced (was covered by warranty). It is not good for fast repeated notes. I used to have a Yamaha P80 and the action was much better. Regret not getting one of the higher end Yamahas.


----------



## 98bpm

I am looking to retire my Akai MPK88 and the SL88 Studio has whet my whistle. For those of you who own the SL88 Studio (I know I'm finding this thread kinda late), do any of you have issues with "ghost notes" appearing in your DAW? I recently just saw this detailed YouTube video review of the SL88 Studio where an elaborate modification was done to fix the issue, but I wonder if his issue was more isolated to his board. 

Also, I've heard that one the joysticks has a "dead area" where nothing happens when you move the stick a few centimeters, unlike a wheel where data is generated as soon as you move the wheel the slightest amount. To me, if that's consistent with the SL88 design, then the sticks may be hard to control. 

Any owners care to comment? Looking to buy, so any insights are appreciated.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

i just use this instead of the sticks.


----------



## 98bpm

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i just use this instead of the sticks.


Thanks for the feedback. I have an MPK88 and never really got used to the feel of the pads, so I can probably get along fine without them. I think the MPD 232 is discontinued now. I am interested in Studiologic’s Mixface to give me these knobs and faders I need.


----------



## jpl_pc2

98bpm said:


> do any of you have issues with "ghost notes" appearing in your DAW?



Yes I have this issue and it drives me crazy. Maybe once a day it actually plays a high velocity note up high while I'm playing the piano. Super awkward for live performance. I need to check out that video!


----------



## PaulieDC

jpl_pc2 said:


> Yes I have this issue and it drives me crazy. Maybe once a day it actually plays a high velocity note up high while I'm playing the piano. Super awkward for live performance. I need to check out that video!


That’s what I get, all of a sudden a note 3 octaves up peeps out but then it’s all normal as I continue. Any resolution? I’m going to try the full restore next.


----------



## PaulieDC

Nmargiotta said:


> I had the very same issue, and here is how I fixed it:
> 
> If you look in your midi event list you will see the duplicate note associated to a midi channel different from 1 (in my case midi was being written as channels 1 & 2) you can easily delete the unwanted duplicate notes from the midi event list and sort by midi channel. However to fix this from happening you need to make sure the Sl88 is only outputting one midi channel. You can quickly do this from the screen and knob on the interface, but I suggest using the Sl Editor tool and saving a program setting for this to your keyboard. That way you won't have to disable the other "zones" each time you turn on/off your device.
> 
> The "zones" are the multicolored parameter boxes you see on your display.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When multiple zones are enabled and lit up, the keyboard will output multiple midi channels. By default zone 1 outputs to midi channel 1, zone 2 to midi 2, zone 3 to midi 1 and zone 4 to midi 2. So what you need to do is either disable the other zones via the knobs and display on your keyboard, or save a program with the unused zones disabled.
> To save a new program use the SL Editor tool (which is a fantastic tool for customizing the settings on the keyboard) with zones 2-4 disabled. You will then be using just one zone that will output one midi channel which means no more duplicates in your event list and piano roll. To see what my saved Program 001 looks like check out the attached screen shot.
> 
> Let me know if that did the trick. One other thing to remember is there are no pre-loaded sounds on the keyboard it is simply a midi controller so thus "local" mode as described doesn't exist for this keyboard.


Almost three years later and this is STILL helping people. Problem solved, my Grand actually WORKS now! 👍🏼
FWIW, I’m on Firmware 1.70


----------



## fre3co

Anyone having issues using SL Editor in Big Sur?


----------



## BassClef

fre3co said:


> Anyone having issues using SL Editor in Big Sur?


I have not yet upgraded to BigSur. However in considering that upgrade, I contacted SL and they said that they are aware of and working on the SL Editor/BigSur bug problem.


----------



## fre3co

BassClef said:


> I have not yet upgraded to BigSur. However in considering that upgrade, I contacted SL and they said that they are aware of and working on the SL Editor/BigSur bug problem.


Then we will wait before upgrading to Big Sur.


----------



## matt49

PaulieDC said:


> That’s what I get, all of a sudden a note 3 octaves up peeps out but then it’s all normal as I continue. Any resolution? I’m going to try the full restore next.


Hi, I just bought this keyboard second hand, looked in good shape, but I'm having the same Ghost notes problem (one very short note then a long one corresponding to the note I actually played, but I only hear the very short one, which sucks....), I don't know if I'm ready to go through the whole disassembling process like the video showed, have you been able to fix the issue in any other way ?
I'm really disappointed, but mostly scared about upcoming live performances...
thanks a lot !
Matthieu


----------



## LauraC

matt49 said:


> Hi, I just bought this keyboard second hand, looked in good shape, but I'm having the same Ghost notes problem (one very short note then a long one corresponding to the note I actually played, but I only hear the very short one, which sucks....), I don't know if I'm ready to go through the whole disassembling process like the video showed, have you been able to fix the issue in any other way ?
> I'm really disappointed, but mostly scared about upcoming live performances...
> thanks a lot !
> Matthieu


I don't know if this will help - but I found I'm not having the doubled notes issue when I only broadcast to MIDI 1, rather than "all.


----------



## BassClef

INFO... I have now upgraded to BigSur and no issues with the keyboard.


----------



## matt49

LauraC said:


> I don't know if this will help - but I found I'm not having the doubled notes issue when I only broadcast to MIDI 1, rather than "all.


thanks, I'll try this tonight !


----------



## PaulieDC

matt49 said:


> Hi, I just bought this keyboard second hand, looked in good shape, but I'm having the same Ghost notes problem (one very short note then a long one corresponding to the note I actually played, but I only hear the very short one, which sucks....), I don't know if I'm ready to go through the whole disassembling process like the video showed, have you been able to fix the issue in any other way ?
> I'm really disappointed, but mostly scared about upcoming live performances...
> thanks a lot !
> Matthieu


YES, I did get all that sorted out! It's the 001 preset with all 4 zones, it goes wonky. Create a preset with the Zones 2, 3 and 4 turned off and the problem goes away. I almost forgot that was an issue!

Here's a post I did as a synopsis of the SL88 Grand after owning it for a while. In it I put more detail about the doubled note doo-jiggy:






UPDATE: VELOCITY INFO | Some Info on the StudioLogic SL88 Grand Now That I Own It


2/8/2021: Update in Orange below (in context) I've had the SL88 Grand for a little more that three months now, and wanted to share some tips and observations because all of my questions are now answered (obviously, lol). When I was searching 88's it was hard to get input on this elusive...




vi-control.net





Hope that helps!


----------



## PaulieDC

LauraC said:


> I don't know if this will help - but I found I'm not having the doubled notes issue when I only broadcast to MIDI 1, rather than "all.


Every little tidbit we contribute is a help!


----------



## matt49

matt49 said:


> thanks, I'll try this tonight !


Well, unfortunatly, it didn't fix the issue.... thanks anyway !


----------



## matt49

PaulieDC said:


> Every little tidbit we contribute is a help!


agreed


----------



## matt49

PaulieDC said:


> YES, I did get all that sorted out! It's the 001 preset with all 4 zones, it goes wonky. Create a preset with the Zones 2, 3 and 4 turned off and the problem goes away. I almost forgot that was an issue!
> 
> Here's a post I did as a synopsis of the SL88 Grand after owning it for a while. In it I put more detail about the doubled note doo-jiggy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: VELOCITY INFO | Some Info on the StudioLogic SL88 Grand Now That I Own It
> 
> 
> 2/8/2021: Update in Orange below (in context) I've had the SL88 Grand for a little more that three months now, and wanted to share some tips and observations because all of my questions are now answered (obviously, lol). When I was searching 88's it was hard to get input on this elusive...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that helps!


Thanks Paulie, I've read the other thread with attention, I've created a preset with only one zone activated, the others are set to "ENABLE : OFF", it looks exaclty like your picture, and I still get the double notes.... (see attached), but almost exclusively with black notes.
My feeling is that it's a physical issue. When I play the keyboard (it's the SL88 STUDIO version...), the keys feel pretty heavy (I have a real upright at home also) but overall there is some kind of rebound, not very pleasant to the fingers, almost like a feedback , and I have a feeling that could be part of the issue, the key rebounds shortly after hitting the sensor, so activates note off message as it goes back up a little, and then sends an other note right after with a low velocity, since it is the end of the rebound, I don't know if Im clear.
Anyway, I guess I'm up for trying the full sensor bed tilt video tutorial... scary though....
I understand you have the GRAND version, have you been able to compare with the STUDIO version ?
People say it is a little lighter ?
Thanks again everyone for you help
I will let you know how it goes of course
M.


----------



## LauraC

matt49 said:


> Thanks Paulie, I've read the other thread with attention, I've created a preset with only one zone activated, the others are set to "ENABLE : OFF", it looks exaclty like your picture, and I still get the double notes.... (see attached), but almost exclusively with black notes.
> My feeling is that it's a physical issue. When I play the keyboard (it's the SL88 STUDIO version...), the keys feel pretty heavy (I have a real upright at home also) but overall there is some kind of rebound, not very pleasant to the fingers, almost like a feedback , and I have a feeling that could be part of the issue, the key rebounds shortly after hitting the sensor, so activates note off message as it goes back up a little, and then sends an other note right after with a low velocity, since it is the end of the rebound, I don't know if Im clear.
> Anyway, I guess I'm up for trying the full sensor bed tilt video tutorial... scary though....
> I understand you have the GRAND version, have you been able to compare with the STUDIO version ?
> People say it is a little lighter ?
> Thanks again everyone for you help
> I will let you know how it goes of course
> M.


I have the Grand - I first bought the Studio and didn't love it and the minute I laid fingers on the Grand, I sent the Studio back. I don't know where you're located, but if you're in the US, Sweetwater has an amazing return policy (ask for Patrick Lantz~ ).


----------



## matt49

LauraC said:


> I have the Grand - I first bought the Studio and didn't love it and the minute I laid fingers on the Grand, I sent the Studio back. I don't know where you're located, but if you're in the US, Sweetwater has an amazing return policy (ask for Patrick Lantz~ ).


Thanks for your feedback Laura, unfortunatly I'm in France, plus I bought the keyboard second hand....so no return here.... I've spent the last hour on it now and that rebound still kills me, I'm sure it is the cause of that double note thing. I'll try to find a store that has the GRAND to compare.
thanks !


----------



## LauraC

matt49 said:


> Thanks for your feedback Laura, unfortunatly I'm in France, plus I bought the keyboard second hand....so no return here.... I've spent the last hour on it now and that rebound still kills me, I'm sure it is the cause of that double note thing. I'll try to find a store that has the GRAND to compare.
> thanks !


I mean - if you think it is a hardware issue, perhaps there's an authorized repair person that could take a look? I took apart my keyboard once to fix it (a Kurzweil); never again.


----------



## Simeon

matt49 said:


> Thanks for your feedback Laura, unfortunatly I'm in France, plus I bought the keyboard second hand....so no return here.... I've spent the last hour on it now and that rebound still kills me, I'm sure it is the cause of that double note thing. I'll try to find a store that has the GRAND to compare.
> thanks !


Matt,
Just reading a few posts to catch up. 
what DAW are you using?
I had an issue where all of the SL88’s MIDI ports were sending data into the track.

Another way to check to see what might be going on is to record a MIDI track and then open the Event List so you can see in more detail what and where MIDI data is coming in.

I hope that helps.
Simeon


----------



## davinwv

Simeon said:


> Matt,
> Just reading a few posts to catch up.
> what DAW are you using?
> I had an issue where all of the SL88’s MIDI ports were sending data into the track.
> 
> Another way to check to see what might be going on is to record a MIDI track and then open the Event List so you can see in more detail what and where MIDI data is coming in.
> 
> I hope that helps.
> Simeon


Say more, Simeon. How did you configure the SL88 Grand to resolve this?


----------



## Simeon

davinwv said:


> Say more, Simeon. How did you configure the SL88 Grand to resolve this?


I just need to know more about what DAW you are using and how the MIDI devices are set up.
It does have a lot to do with how the ZONES are set up and how many are enabled.

I have my SL88: Grand connected through the USB To Host into my Daw and have ZONE 1 enabled to send through MIDI 1 and Zone 2 is Sending MIDI OUT to a connected CME WIDI MASTER Bluetooth MIDI adapter, so I can use it with iOS apps.

I also use Bome MIDI Translator extensively to create virtual MIDI ports so that I can access the SL Editor while still having my controller connected to my main DAW application. Here are some pics of my current setup.






Here I have the SL88: Grand MIDI 1 sending to several virtual MIDI Ports with Bome Virtual 1 as my Main MIDI In and Out.
I have SL88 MIDI Out 2 Routed to Virtual Port 8 in order to connect to the SL Editor without it interfering with my connection to my DAW. I can alter programs and settings on the fly there and push it to the controller without interruption.




You can see that I have Virtual Port 8 assigned to both MIDI In and Out here to access the controller.





Here is my Main SL88: Grand program. You can see only two zones are active with Zone 1 sending MIDI information out to the DAW applications and Zone 2 sending to the Bluetooth device connected to the physical MIDI OUT 2






Here is my MIDI Device setup in Cakewalk by BandLab. You can see BMT 1 as my MAIN MIDI port with BMT 5 selected as it is connected to my nanoKONTROL/nanoKEYS.







You can see here that the MIDI In Source can expose ALL of your MIDI inputs. If there are MULTIPLE inputs selected here then you will get duplicate notes as they are being received through more than one MIDI input.

I hope that gives you some ideas. Please let me know if there is anything else I might help with further.

All the best,
Simeon


----------



## davinwv

Simeon said:


> I just need to know more about what DAW you are using and how the MIDI devices are set up.
> It does have a lot to do with how the ZONES are set up and how many are enabled.
> 
> I have my SL88: Grand connected through the USB To Host into my Daw and have ZONE 1 enabled to send through MIDI 1 and Zone 2 is Sending MIDI OUT to a connected CME WIDI MASTER Bluetooth MIDI adapter, so I can use it with iOS apps.
> 
> I also use Bome MIDI Translator extensively to create virtual MIDI ports so that I can access the SL Editor while still having my controller connected to my main DAW application. Here are some pics of my current setup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here I have the SL88: Grand MIDI 1 sending to several virtual MIDI Ports with Bome Virtual 1 as my Main MIDI In and Out.
> I have SL88 MIDI Out 2 Routed to Virtual Port 8 in order to connect to the SL Editor without it interfering with my connection to my DAW. I can alter programs and settings on the fly there and push it to the controller without interruption.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see that I have Virtual Port 8 assigned to both MIDI In and Out here to access the controller.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my Main SL88: Grand program. You can see only two zones are active with Zone 1 sending MIDI information out to the DAW applications and Zone 2 sending to the Bluetooth device connected to the physical MIDI OUT 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my MIDI Device setup in Cakewalk by BandLab. You can see BMT 1 as my MAIN MIDI port with BMT 5 selected as it is connected to my nanoKONTROL/nanoKEYS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see here that the MIDI In Source can expose ALL of your MIDI inputs. If there are MULTIPLE inputs selected here then you will get duplicate notes as they are being received through more than one MIDI input.
> 
> I hope that gives you some ideas. Please let me know if there is anything else I might help with further.
> 
> All the best,
> Simeon


Wow - thanks very much for such a detailed reply! You have a very intricate and complex setup there.

I just got my SL88 Grand in April and use it in Studio One. I've been getting some isolated notes with very weak velocity at random times when tracking. It is very erratic, so I'm trying to track down possible causes of the issue.


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## matt49

Hi Simeon, thanks ideed for all the details, and thanks everyone for sharing this is always precious. 
I had monitored the midi coming in Ableton Live and there was nothing suspicious anywhere, so I finally decided to try my least favorite option which was tearing the whole keyboard appart like the video I found on this forum showed (I will post the link again later today), I don't have much time right now, I have a rehearsal day so I will let you know tonight how it went with the SL88 studio, but so far, it's seems 100 times better, no more double note after tilting the sensors thing.... it was a very long and scary process though....
more infos and pictures later today !


----------



## matt49

All right, so after spending some time playing the keyboard, I can confirm my first impression, the problem is fixed, I didn't have any single "double" or "ghost" note for the last 2 days. 

So a big big thank you to Boyan Mladenov for making this video : 


I followed every single step, except I didn't have any plastic to do the little inserts so I used regular washers, I didn't have any plastic grease so I tried to be very careful to not remove to much of the existing one, I have to say I was very scared with this operation, and it was sooooo long but it was 100% worth it. 
The keys response feels much much better, no more double notes, plus I think because I spread some of the grease a little bit everywhere, somehow the keys are much quieter. 
Very happy man here. 

Now this is said, I also wanted to share my feeling about this keyboard if it can help anyone to decide buying it or not. 
After fixing the issue it is now working normaly but overall I'm a little disappointed with it I have to say. 
The price tag is nice, the built is very good, the metal case, it seems pretty robust overall. 
I like the 3 little joysticks, I like the design, it is a perfect fit for my setup as I can lay on top my other mini keyboard, plus the LaunchControl.....
BUT the piano touch is not happening at all. I think I might get use to it and be able to play it for some time, but I think my quest isn't over. 
The keys are waaaaay too heavy (I have a real piano at home, a nice Bechstein with reinner mechanics, several piano players have found it is a quite heavy touch, and still a lot lighter than the SL88). 
Somehow it feels soft, and heavy at the same time, plus there is a very unpleasant rebound, some sort of feedback to your finger. 
I know we can't expect a real piano feel from anything else but a piano, and they probably worked hard to get there, and I bought it 250€, but this is not happening. The last 2 years I've been using a Nord Electro 5D (not HP) because it is what I had, and even with the "organ style" keyboard touch I had much better sensations. 
So maybe I will get use to it, time will say, but right now it is tough.....
I'm really hoping I can lay my hands on the GRAND version to compare soon. 


Anyway, 
Thanks again everyone for sharing your ideas and experiences this has been very very helpful, don't hesitate to ask if you want details about the operation....
Cheers, 

Matthieu


----------



## Rmgatl

LauraC said:


> I have the Grand - I first bought the Studio and didn't love it and the minute I laid fingers on the Grand, I sent the Studio back. I don't know where you're located, but if you're in the US, Sweetwater has an amazing return policy (ask for Patrick Lantz~ ).


Hi, what did you like so much more about the Grand vs Studio? Are you more used to playing an acoustic piano action or a lighter digital action?

I have the SL88 Studio and have liked it fine for playing in parts in an arrangement.
But I was looking at the Grand to maybe get closer to a piano feel. My classical piano playing is mostly acoustic (really top notch Steinway D) and figured the Grand is getting closer. Like you said I might have to gamble a little with the Sweetwater return policy as a backstop.

I also have a Kawai ES-8….if anyone has compared the Grand action to any Kawai pianos, would be curious to hear your thoughts.


----------



## LauraC

Rmgatl said:


> Hi, what did you like so much more about the Grand vs Studio? Are you more used to playing an acoustic piano action or a lighter digital action?
> 
> I have the SL88 Studio and have liked it fine for playing in parts in an arrangement.
> But I was looking at the Grand to maybe get closer to a piano feel. My classical piano playing is mostly acoustic (really top notch Steinway D) and figured the Grand is getting closer. Like you said I might have to gamble a little with the Sweetwater return policy as a backstop.
> 
> I also have a Kawai ES-8….if anyone has compared the Grand action to any Kawai pianos, would be curious to hear your thoughts.


They key feel is very different on the Grand than the Studio, IMO. It is a heavier action too, which some don’t like, but doesn’t bother me. I mean for the $800 I paid, it is a great value for the dollar.


----------



## Rmgatl

LauraC said:


> They key feel is very different on the Grand than the Studio, IMO. It is a heavier action too, which some don’t like, but doesn’t bother me. I mean for the $800 I paid, it is a great value for the dollar.


Thanks, did you ever try the Kawai VPC1? My guess is that’s what I really want, just have to pony up $1850.
Repeat notes and fast trills have been the main complaint about SL88. I’ll try Scarlatti K141 tonight on my Studio, probably a stretch…
The Grand is $1000 now, still pretty reasonable, but not $800 any more.


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## sostenuto

Just started looking seriously. These are ~ 2016 intro, right? Have there been notable updates, etc. ?

VPC1 is doable .... if truly 1.8x cost 'better'


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## Rmgatl

I just now played Scarlatti k141 on my Studio....doable, not really clean and somewhat of a strain. Tried it on my 1921 Baldwin E that needs a complete rebuild - different feel, but about the same net result. Then on my (frankly pristine) Steinway D, flew through it, terrific. 

Also played a Chopin piece with trills on the Studio, ok really, once again not quite as clean as I'd like. Then played Scarlatti K27 which I just recently recorded perfectly using my ES-8 piano as the controller (but not internal sounds, used Walker 1955 library). I could not even get through K27 on the Studio, too bouncy, generally sloppy. 

So imho the Studio is fine for general studio work, playing in parts, very nice for the money. If you're trying to play piano on an advanced level, it doesn't cut it. Maybe the Grand does, or go to a Kawai action. The VPC1 is supposed to have a better action than the ES-8, but I found the ES-8 to be pretty good, good enough to play about whatever I'm working on. 

Just my experience, happy to compare notes, hope this helps someone.


----------



## sostenuto

SL88 Grand seems very strong price point right now. Tough choice __ now using older, pristine Roland KR577 Digi Piano, to Win10 Pro / Desktop PC /Reaper DAW. Tough to decide _ in small town location with no local stock of top tier MIDI Pianos to demo.

Will SL88 Grand provide notable improvement over KR577 ?? Not very confident.


----------



## quietmind

Here's a fun mod for the joysticks of the SL88 Grand. It gives me a much better control ability. This is very cheap and easy to do as long as you have a drill. You can get the knobs on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/274744401939) and they almost fit. You just have to drill them out ever so slightly.


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## PaulieDC

Rmgatl said:


> Hi, what did you like so much more about the Grand vs Studio? Are you more used to playing an acoustic piano action or a lighter digital action?
> 
> I have the SL88 Studio and have liked it fine for playing in parts in an arrangement.
> But I was looking at the Grand to maybe get closer to a piano feel. My classical piano playing is mostly acoustic (really top notch Steinway D) and figured the Grand is getting closer. Like you said I might have to gamble a little with the Sweetwater return policy as a backstop.
> 
> I also have a Kawai ES-8….if anyone has compared the Grand action to any Kawai pianos, would be curious to hear your thoughts.


When I was pulling my hair out to find out info on the SL88 Grand, all I found was those who had trouble with it (the same handful grumping about it in different forums, lol). So once I was able to get mine last October I was determined to try and answer all the questions that I had wondered. Here's my overly long pontification... hopefully it answers a couple things for you!






UPDATE: VELOCITY INFO | Some Info on the StudioLogic SL88 Grand Now That I Own It


2/8/2021: Update in Orange below (in context) I've had the SL88 Grand for a little more that three months now, and wanted to share some tips and observations because all of my questions are now answered (obviously, lol). When I was searching 88's it was hard to get input on this elusive...




vi-control.net





PS: if the house caught fire, I'd consider running back in to get it, lol. NO regrets!


----------



## Rmgatl

PaulieDC said:


> When I was pulling my hair out to find out info on the SL88 Grand, all I found was those who had trouble with it (the same handful grumping about it in different forums, lol). So once I was able to get mine last October I was determined to try and answer all the questions that I had wondered. Here's my overly long pontification... hopefully it answers a couple things for you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: VELOCITY INFO | Some Info on the StudioLogic SL88 Grand Now That I Own It
> 
> 
> 2/8/2021: Update in Orange below (in context) I've had the SL88 Grand for a little more that three months now, and wanted to share some tips and observations because all of my questions are now answered (obviously, lol). When I was searching 88's it was hard to get input on this elusive...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: if the house caught fire, I'd consider running back in to get it, lol. NO regrets!


Thanks, very helpful. Clearly an upgrade vs the Studio and I thought the Studio was fine for composing and basic playing. However the Studio was unplayable for advanced classical rep and not in the same universe action-wise as my ES-8.

Right now, looks like I’m probably getting a VPC1, which is apparently better than the ES-8, and giving the Studio to my son. Hate paying the extra $800 for the VPC1 vs the Grand. Happy to hear from anyone who might talk me out of it


----------



## PaulieDC

Rmgatl said:


> Happy to hear from anyone who might talk me out of it


If you want a piano-like experience, the VPC-1 is going to deliver... escapement is your best friend. You probably didn't want to hear this, but as I get older and crankier, I've eliminated cost as a factor, within reason. Paying for exactly what you need has more value then any dollar saved. Time and aggravation are expensive, so it makes sense to invest in your talent. I gave up on acoustic guitar playing because it never sounded right and I always felt like I was fighting the instrument, so I just reasoned that it was me. In 2015 I saw a $2800 Taylor in Guitar Center and actually got ticked that a guitar would cost that much. I picked it up and played it to see what all the fuss was about, and I truly was mind-blown. It felt like I was playing the guitar that was my lifelong best friend, and the tone knocked me out. I winced and ordered one from Sweetwater on 36-month financing, but it truly added to my ability to play. Side note, I got asked by a few people in church for lessons, and the guitar was paid off in under two years. Now 6 years later, I know I have the instrument that I absolutely LOVE and it fits my big stupid hands like a glove and sounds even better now than the day it came. NO regrets on the price. I say go play the VPC-1 if you can (apologies if you already said that isn't possible), start saving where you can and order it from a place with a return policy if possible. But look at it as THE investment to get you to a higher level. For me, investing in the SL88 Grand was my perfect solution because I'm a keyboardist, not a pianist. I didn't need exact grand piano feel, I needed to LOVE it and that I do.

Interesting thing: I have always loved playing our Yamaha C5 Grand in church. With Covid and our familiy's choice to stay put, I haven't been attending for now but I still pop in to fix audio issues in the system plus I set up streaming. After playing my SL88 Grand for a few months, I sat down at the C5 on one of my visits, and are you ready for this? IT FELT WEIRD! I couldn't wait to get home to my SL88 Grand because I was now used to it and loving it. So on the flip side of what I stated, I believe the Fatar TP40/WOOD keybed is good enough that you will adapt to it and be happy. It's also a lot smaller, lol. BUT if adapting is not the direction you want to go, then check out the VPC-1.

I found this article, didn't read the whole thing yet, but it's quite detailed about the VPC-1. I'm concerned if I read it, I'll want one, lol:








Kawai VPC1 - REVIEW | Digital Piano Controller | Jan 2023


Kawai VPC1 - REVIEW | Digital Piano Controller | 2023 | Piano wood key weighted key action | Feels & plays like a real piano




azpianonews.blogspot.com





Happy choosing!


----------



## PaulieDC

Ah, found this VI Control post from 2013... the beginning of the second paragraph might be your decision-maker:






Pulled the trigger on the Kawai VPC1


So after some consideration I went ahead and bought the VPC1. And I must say it's been fantastic. I am a classically trained pianist and the feel of the keyboard, it's response are very important to me. I try to come as close to the feel of playing real musical instruments as I can when working...




vi-control.net


----------



## CarmineV

quietmind said:


> Here's a fun mod for the joysticks of the SL88 Grand. It gives me a much better control ability. This is very cheap and easy to do as long as you have a drill. You can get the knobs on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/274744401939) and they almost fit. You just have to drill them out ever so slightly.


Cool idea! That's my only gripe with this controller is that the joysticks are too short especially for more aggressive pitch bends when playing leads.


----------



## PaulieDC

CarmineV said:


> Cool idea! That's my only gripe with this controller is that the joysticks are too short especially for more aggressive pitch bends when playing leads.


I only keep the middle one on (mod) and if you lay your hand flat like swearing on a Bible in court, and put the joystick between your middle and index fingers like a cigarette, you can slide to and fro with better precision. At least it does with my big fat hands. I use the Mixface at home (and changed the caps on the first three faders), so the joysticks sit under my desk, lol.


----------



## BassClef

Since I got the SLMixface (and changed the slider knobs) I no longer use the SL88Grand’s joy sticks.


----------



## htrstew

fre3co said:


> Anyone having issues using SL Editor in Big Sur?


Hello Everyone
I am not able to update my mac to big sur and the latest version of the SL Editor is giving me errors and these are carrying over to the keyboard too.
Do any of you have an older version of the Editor for Mac? 1.2 or 1.3 that I could get from you.

I would so much appreciate any help! Thank You.
Stew


----------



## htrstew

matt49 said:


> All right, so after spending some time playing the keyboard, I can confirm my first impression, the problem is fixed, I didn't have any single "double" or "ghost" note for the last 2 days.
> 
> So a big big thank you to Boyan Mladenov for making this video :
> 
> 
> I followed every single step, except I didn't have any plastic to do the little inserts so I used regular washers, I didn't have any plastic grease so I tried to be very careful to not remove to much of the existing one, I have to say I was very scared with this operation, and it was sooooo long but it was 100% worth it.
> The keys response feels much much better, no more double notes, plus I think because I spread some of the grease a little bit everywhere, somehow the keys are much quieter.
> Very happy man here.
> 
> Now this is said, I also wanted to share my feeling about this keyboard if it can help anyone to decide buying it or not.
> After fixing the issue it is now working normaly but overall I'm a little disappointed with it I have to say.
> The price tag is nice, the built is very good, the metal case, it seems pretty robust overall.
> I like the 3 little joysticks, I like the design, it is a perfect fit for my setup as I can lay on top my other mini keyboard, plus the LaunchControl.....
> BUT the piano touch is not happening at all. I think I might get use to it and be able to play it for some time, but I think my quest isn't over.
> The keys are waaaaay too heavy (I have a real piano at home, a nice Bechstein with reinner mechanics, several piano players have found it is a quite heavy touch, and still a lot lighter than the SL88).
> Somehow it feels soft, and heavy at the same time, plus there is a very unpleasant rebound, some sort of feedback to your finger.
> I know we can't expect a real piano feel from anything else but a piano, and they probably worked hard to get there, and I bought it 250€, but this is not happening. The last 2 years I've been using a Nord Electro 5D (not HP) because it is what I had, and even with the "organ style" keyboard touch I had much better sensations.
> So maybe I will get use to it, time will say, but right now it is tough.....
> I'm really hoping I can lay my hands on the GRAND version to compare soon.
> 
> 
> Anyway,
> Thanks again everyone for sharing your ideas and experiences this has been very very helpful, don't hesitate to ask if you want details about the operation....
> Cheers,
> 
> Matthieu



Hello Everyone
I am new to forums so I hope I am not breaking any rules.

I am not able to update my mac to big sur and the latest version of the SL Editor is giving me errors and these are carrying over to the keyboard too.
Do any of you have an older version of the Editor for Mac? 1.2 or 1.3 that I could get from you.

I would so much appreciate any help! Thank You.
Stew


----------



## Gil

htrstew said:


> Hello Everyone
> I am new to forums so I hope I am not breaking any rules.
> 
> I am not able to update my mac to big sur and the latest version of the SL Editor is giving me errors and these are carrying over to the keyboard too.
> Do any of you have an older version of the Editor for Mac? 1.2 or 1.3 that I could get from you.
> 
> I would so much appreciate any help! Thank You.
> Stew


Hello,
Here is the link for the version 1.3: https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/articles/sl_editor/SL_Editor_1.3.pkg
Strange that the last version doesn't work: did you contact the support?
Regards,
Gil.


----------



## htrstew

Gil said:


> Hello,
> Here is the link for the version 1.3: https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/articles/sl_editor/SL_Editor_1.3.pkg
> Strange that the last version doesn't work: did you contact the support?
> Regards,
> Gil.


Hey Gil
Thank you for sending me the link. I will give this a try and see if it helps with the issues I'm experiencing!
Stew


----------



## htrstew

htrstew said:


> Hey Gil
> Thank you for sending me the link. I will give this a try and see if it helps with the issues I'm experiencing!
> Stew


Hello Gil and Others

I thought I would check in to let you know so far the version 1.3 seems to have fixed the issues I have been having. My mac is on Catalina and I can't upgrade as my Apogee Ensemble interface would stop working. So the newest version of SL Editor was causing all kinds of issues with my older OS and the keyboard.
Thank you again for the help!!!!
Stew


----------



## glyptal

tnussb said:


> I know I'm very late to the party, but since no one has replied regarding the "firmware 1.6" issue:
> 
> It's no issue at all. You just need to turn off the PROGRAM CHANGE behavior of the pedals in the Global Settings and you get back the "normal functionality" (assign CC number to pedals in Zone settings). More details can be found in the manual (see support section on the studiologic homepage).


Hi all
I recently purchased a Studio logic 73, it seems to have sustain pedal issues. I contacted Studio logic support and amongst my correspondence I suggested that if I would back / reinstalled an earlier firmware version it might help. here is the seance of the reply I got,

” Sorry to ask but let me also suggest you to share this info with any User
Groups, in order to avoid tentative / damaging actions.

We (normally) try to reply within a few hours and there is no reason to
search for answers outside the official INFO mailbox, most of the times
not based on reality.

Installing an old Firmware on a new SL might create problems and the
GLOBAL Settings are saved automatically since the very first Firmware
version.

The 1.7.0 on our site if compatible with all SL we made since the very
early production batch (2015). “

I can confirm that the support that I got from Studiologic was very fast in response time and very personable and caring…. and helpful.


----------



## glyptal

I just did a firmware replacement, that is, 1.7.0 over 1.7.0. All issues seem to be resolved, global and instrument settings are now saveable. I used windows 8.1. When I tried win 10, and also mac O.S.10.11.6 with I couldnt do the firmware swap, BUT i did also change the USB cable so cant be sure that that was preventing the firmware upgrade.


----------

