# Assistant?



## Christian Marcussen (Aug 1, 2007)

Hi... Have any of you got any experience in using, or being an assistant?

I have a potential gig where I might need an assistant to program some drum/synth stuff. How would that work? I mean lets say I wanted to hire someone to produce me some original "storm-drum-like" beats - or beef of a piece electronically?

Any experiences, info or similar would be appreciated.

On a related note. Is it safe to assume that many composers have assistants doing these sorts of things? For instance when Alan Silvestri incoorporates electronics into his scores, do you reckon he does that himself?


----------



## Ace Aces (Aug 1, 2007)

I'm an assistant to a guy working in Los Angeles. Typically most guys who are working regularly on features or tv shows have an assistant... they do everything the composer doesn't want to do. In my experience, with a couple of different guys, this ranges from renewing the guy's car insurance, to programming beats, to writing substantial parts of the score. 

I don't know about Silvestri, but another example would be Gregson-Williams. Those cool skittering beats you hear on most of his scores? Not him. He has a bunch of assistants who handle that, and also a couple of Welsh (Scottish?) guys who have an electronic act called Hybrid.

Your arrangements will vary depending on what the assistant is going to be doing. The standard arrangement when an assistant is writing is the assistant (or ghostwriter) gets some up front money (reflective of the composer's fee) and then splits the writers royalties with the composer. Of course I've had friends who've ghostwritten and received no up front money and less than 50%. Just because you're a composer doesn't mean you're ethical. For programming beats, I've typically seen something like 10% writers and a session fee. Like how much would you pay a guitar player to play on a cue, you'd pay the same amount to the programmer.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Aug 1, 2007)

Thanks. That helps a TON! Funny you mention Gregson-Williams, since that's the kind of stuff I had in mind. Funny that it's not him - I always envyed his talent for just that kind of stuff. It always takes me so long to do 

Thanks again! 

ps: Renewed a guys car-insurance :D


----------



## Mike Greene (Aug 1, 2007)

Assistants are pretty common. Even I have a full time one. I have a second room, so we don't trip over each other.

The advantage for me with having someone here full time (even when I don't have any paying gigs . . . like _now_, for instance!) is that when things can get real busy all of a sudden, I'm ready to go. He already knows my system and knows what I like, and I already know what he can and cannot do well. You'd be surprised how different someone else's idea of what cool Storm Drum beats or electronica can be! :shock: 

Fleshing out my ideas with better drums or techno ideas, which can be very time consuming if you want it to be very creative, is probably the most common task if I'm scoring. But if I don't have any paying work or if I'm doing it all myself, he usually is ghost writing generic tracks for me that I hope to be able to use in some future project.

I rarely give up any cue sheet credit, even if his contribution is substantial. I suppose there might be an ethical issue there, but I honestly feel it's pretty fair. He gets paid up front ($20/hour) full time with no risk, no matter how slow it is here. And he doesn't have to hustle gigs, which we all know is by far the hardest part of this business. And anything he does that I can't use, which will always turn out to be a lot with _any_ assistant, I still have to pay for.

I think most guys also have their assistants do odd jobs (gas up the car, put receipts into Quicken, etc,) but I usually don't. I'll usually have underemployed singers (no shortage of those!) come in part time for that stuff . . . if I don't do it myself. Here's a warning: you'll often spend more time explaining how you want some odd job done than it would take for you to just do it yourself.


----------



## José Herring (Aug 1, 2007)

I've spoken to a few guys and assistant is a loose term. It can mean anything from sweeping floors to doing whole scores uncredited.

I would say that the top guys usually do give up writers share to cues that the "assistant" authored. To do otherwise I think is pretty unethical and sends the wrong message.

On the other hand sometimes assistants can get pretty uppity. Claiming credit for things that they only "assisted" on. It's a loosely defined position and I know many guys that won't even hire composers for assistants because they don't want another guy around that has a creative "opinion".

In the past I've hired assistance. Both guys were composers but also both guys knew how to be technical assistants.

Also, it's not unheard of to just work with another composer and share credit. I think that works out much better in the end. One guy can handle the orchestral end of things and one guy the electronic end of things.

Jose


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Aug 1, 2007)

Thanks Mike and Jose. 

I really appreciate your thoughts on all this. Regarding credit, claims and other stuff. Can't that be handled with an NDA and contract?

What kind of stuff would usually be covered by an NDA if any?


----------



## drasticmeasures (Aug 1, 2007)

Mike Greene @ Wed Aug 01 said:


> Here's a warning: you'll often spend more time explaining how you want some odd job done than it would take for you to just do it yourself.



This is why I currently don't have an assistant. I've only had one, for about 5 weeks. Despite his claims, he was totally inept. Sent gear I sold on ebay to wrong address, etc - so there was no way I was sticking him on a PT or Logic rig.

I can say first hand that paying someone to handle something, taking the time to go through and explain it, and then having to redo it anyway is very frustrating for me.
Although since I'm going to be a dad soon, I'm flirting with the idea to lift the mundane shit (backing up, organizing, mx editing).

I think it's for this reason that many "A" guys are taking in solely unpaid interns on a "trial" basis. I think most specify an amount of time ("3 months unpaid trial", etc). But some of the big guys are doing indefinite unpaid positions.


----------



## VonRichter (Aug 1, 2007)

I need an assistant do everything in my life EXCEPT for composing. That includes brushing my teeth.

This is an unpaid internship position.

Any takers?


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Aug 2, 2007)

hehe...

If I decide I need it I'll go for a track to track or project to project basis. 

Any word on the whole NDA thing?


----------



## Mike Greene (Aug 2, 2007)

NDA is a Non-Disclosure Agreement. It's just a paragraph or two outlining what someone is not allowed to talk about.


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Aug 2, 2007)

Mike Greene @ Thu Aug 02 said:


> NDA is a Non-Disclosure Agreement. It's just a paragraph or two outlining what someone is not allowed to talk about.



lol Mike :D

I know that. I meant what kind of things are usually covered by a contract made for an assistant. What can and cant they talk about?


----------



## sbkp (Aug 2, 2007)

Well, fòâ:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^â:   ^ â:   ^!â:   ^"â:   ^#â:   ^$â:   ^%â:   ^&â:   ^'â:   ^(â:   ^)â:   ^*â:   ^+â:


----------



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Aug 2, 2007)

Mike,

Wouldn't you atleast give them some credit for "Addition music by" or anything of the sort? I can see your reasoning though, and as long as you are not an ass and supply a good reference if they want to get their own jobs, doesn't seem to bad to me.

Being an assistant doesn't sound bad to me. Afterall, it's composing for a living. I'm just curious how you even go about getting a job as an assistant?

Not excatly possible for me now (don't live in CA) but I'm curious.


----------



## Mike Greene (Aug 2, 2007)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Thu Aug 02 said:


> Mike,
> 
> Wouldn't you atleast give them some credit for "Addition music by" or anything of the sort? I can see your reasoning though, and as long as you are not an ass and supply a good reference if they want to get their own jobs, doesn't seem to bad to me.
> 
> ...


Heck, on the shows I do, I'm lucky if I can get _my_ name in the credits!

In truth, I sometimes do give cue sheet credit. But when I place ads and during interviews, I'll make a point of saying that never happens. The reason for that is this way, it's a decision that's entirely up to me for whatever reasons I want. That way, I don't get into arguments. And it makes it so there are no ulterior motives when an assistant (or session player for that matter) is coming up with ideas.

When I'm hiring, it's either a referral from a friend or I'll place an ad on the Logic Users Group. I get a lot of responses, even though this isn't exactly Media Ventures, although I do pay better than they do. I often see assistant ads on Film Music Network's site, too.
http://www.filmmusic.net/


----------



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Aug 2, 2007)

What does the interview usually imply? Such as how many years experience they have in Logic I'm guessing, and probably product demos too?

Atm I'd love to work as an assistant, would be better than a gloomy day job at a retail store or something.


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Aug 3, 2007)

Thanks Mike. 

I guess the kind of assistant I'm after is more similar to how I would call in a session player. And if the guy or gal is good I would use them on more tracks. 

So I guess a full time assistant is not really what I'm after. (I have no car, and thus no car-insurance) :D

Somehow I think I would be more comfortable with some kind of NDA.


----------



## Cyrano De Bergerac (Aug 3, 2007)

Christian Marcussen @ Thu Aug 02 said:


> ...what kind of things are usually covered by a contract made for an assistant. What can and cant they talk about?


The general non-NDA contract should protect both parties. Everything that is expected of each party to the contract needs to be detailed so that there are no surprises down the road. It needs to be well-defined as to whether the assistant's position is to be administrative, technical, creative, or some combination of the three. And again, there needs to be some specificity when breaking all that down. Things such as...

1) What will the assistant actually and specifically do, and how he will do it.

2) Whether or not the assistant is to work at the composer's studio (in the case of an admin or tech), or whether the assistant will work mostly at his own studio (in the case of a backup writer).

3) Whether or not the assistant is to be on call 24/7.

4) When, how, and how much is the assistant to be paid. Probably hourly for an admin or tech, and by the four-bar page per orchestra size for a backup writer. And what's the vacation and family emergency situation for the admin or tech assistant? The backup writer doesn't work full time for a particular composer, so vacation and family emergency stuff is not relevant here.

The NDA itself might either be a separate contract, or a clause within a contract. They are based on the ones the publishing industry has been using for decades.

At the very least it will detail that you cannot mention to anyone, either in public or in private, either in writing or in speaking, or allow to be found out by any means either on purpose or through negligence, that you serve in any _creative_ capacity for that particular composer (or any capacity at all for that matter), or for any project to which that composer is or has been attached. It may also stipulate that you cannot list as a credit on your resume or include in any printed score demo and/or audio demo anything having to do with any of that composer's projects without prior written permission, as this sort of redundancy is pretty common in such contracts.

In reality, they all know you're going to tell your wife who you work for and what you're doing, and they don't really care as long as it doesn't go any further than that.


----------



## scottsta (Aug 3, 2007)

A couple of week ago
My wife and I
Took a little trip down to
Mexico
Met this young girl there
We brought her back with us
Now she lives with us
In Our Home
She cleans the hallway
She cleans the stair
She cleans the livingroom
She wipes the baby's ass
She drives the kids to school
She does the laundry too
She wrote this song for me
Listen
Yeah

(MY LIFE IS GOOD - RANDY NEWMAN)


----------



## midphase (Aug 3, 2007)

Damn you Randy Newman.....damn you straight to hell!


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Aug 3, 2007)

Gotta' go to Mexico!


----------



## John DeBorde (Aug 3, 2007)

heh heh, did you see that South Park where they get day laborers to write their school papers for them?

I know where I'm going the next time I need to farm out some cues. Home Depot baby! :twisted:


----------



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Aug 3, 2007)

I love that episode of family guy where randy newman is playing the piano at the house (after the nuclear incident)


----------



## Hannes_F (Aug 3, 2007)

[quote:59adbb106e="Cyrano De Bergerac @ Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:36 pm"]At the very least it will detail that you cannot mòã   ^J+ã   ^J,ã   ^J-ã   ^J.ã   ^J/ã   ^J0ã   ^J1ã   ^J2ã	   ^J3ã	   ^J4ã
   ^J5ã
   ^J6ã
   ^J7ã
   ^J8ã
   ^J9ã
   ^J:ã
   ^J;ã
   ^J<ã
   ^J=ã
   ^J>ã
   ^J?ã
   ^[email protected]ã
   ^JAã
   ^JBã
   ^JCã
   ^JDã
   ^JEã
   ^JFã
   ^JGã
   ^JHã
   ^JIã
   ^JJã
   ^JKã
   ^JLã
   ^JMã
   ^JNã
   ^JOã
   ^JPã
   ^JQã
   ^JRã
   ^JSã
   ^JTã
   ^JUã
   ^JVã
   ^JWã
   ^JXã
   ^JYã
   ^JZã
   ^J[ã
   ^J\ã
   ^J]ã
   ^J^ã
   ^J_ã
   ^J`ã
   ^Jaã
   ^Jbã
   ^Jcã
   ^Jdã
   ^Jeã
   ^Jfã
   ^Jgã
   ^Jhã   ^Jiã   ^Jjã   ^Jkã   ^Jlã   ^Jmã   ^Jnã   ^Joã   ^Jpã   ^Jqã   ^Jrã   ^Jsã   ^Jtã   ^Juã   ^Jvã   ^Jwã   ^Jxã   ^Jyã   ^Jzã   ^J{


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Aug 4, 2007)

Well. I have had more shitty part-time jobs. 

Add to that all the music done for free to gain the experience needed to actually make money in this business.

6 years ago I would have been happy earning even just a bit of money doing music. 

Anyway, as mentioned - what I have in mind is more of a beat/synth programmer doing original stuff for me that I would normally get out of a software package.


----------

