# Reverb for real strings



## Peter Cavallo (Dec 2, 2018)

Having some difficulty in getting the Quartet to sit nicely in reverb. So, just wondering what you guys use as in type of reverb and even settings like pre-delay etc. The music is ambient classical. What I am finding is i'm over compensating and then having the strings washed out in reverb then after I cut it back I think they sound too dry. So maybe I'm using the wrong reverb types or just the wrong settings.

Mainly Using:
Valhalla Room
East West Spaces

Any recommendations of tutorial links (Specifically strings) or other reverb plugins would also be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Peter


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## Divico (Dec 2, 2018)

I think pre delay and EQ are what u need. Your reverbs are great. The more predelay you add the more upfront the sound will be. Also in a certain way it lets you get away with more verb without entering shreks swamp. Try high and low passing the verb bus. Imo cutting the top end helps with keeping clarity


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## -JM- (Dec 2, 2018)

Hi Peter,
For strings I recommend TC-6000 (or TC-4000) as well as Lexicon PCM-96. A rather long pre-delay and dry/close microphone position. (Not too much low frequency boost in the reverb tail can also be helpful).
Nevertheless trust your ears and feeling and not so much numbers.
Kind Regards
-JM-


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## Saxer (Dec 2, 2018)

Get a reference track.


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## JohnG (Dec 2, 2018)

Divico said:


> cutting the top end helps with keeping clarity



and the bottom too. Spaces allows that -- some people really squeeze down the reverb with both high and low passes.


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## Divico (Dec 2, 2018)

JohnG said:


> and the bottom too. Spaces allows that -- some people really squeeze down the reverb with both high and low passes.


Yap. I recommend cutting before the verb. Not sure how the signal chain is in spaces. I always add my own eq, thats more useful when trying out different IRs.
Imo cutting lows removes mud and cutting highs after the verb makes it less prominent


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 3, 2018)

I'd suggest using 2 or 3 reverbs. Spaces should have everything you need to get great results. 

Depending on how dry the strings are, I'd start by focusing on creating a space around them (putting them "in" a space) and then adding a separate reverb for the more "reverby" side of things. Trying to get it all with a single reverb can be tricky depending on how it was recorded. I typically use Altiverb and/or Seventh Heaven.


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## Divico (Dec 3, 2018)

+1 on what Gerhard said. Using a short reverb is also good to fill the hole between the source and a long tail that is often there, even if you disable pre delay.


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## tokatila (Dec 3, 2018)

How about posting a snippet of the quartet recording for us to test?


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## labornvain (Dec 3, 2018)

One really effective solution to this problem is to use a ducking reverb. You can achieve this by putting a compressor on the reverb return and then triggering that compressor with a side chain from the source material. This way, whenever the signal is present from the quartet, the reverb won't be quite as loud. But when the quartet signal drops off, the reverb comes back so it won't be so dry.

This is a similar effect to using pre delay, except it's more precise in a way. The new SSL reverb plugin has this feature built-in.


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## Divico (Dec 3, 2018)

labornvain said:


> This is a similar effect to using pre delay, except it's more precise in a way.


While the trick that you mentioned is a good one, especially on vocals, I cant agree on this statement. (sry for my german pickyness )
Predelay creates depth -> psycho-acoustically and helps to keep the reverb away from the transient of the source. If your drums are not punchy enough with reverb on, try some pre delay, but be careful to avoid an audible slapback.
Reverb ducking helps imo especially with dense and also complex material and is really good in a creative form where you want the reverb tail to be heard. If you want to get away with a thick and lovely tail but the result is too cluttery this is a way to go. In Rock and Pop mixing you do this quite often to let the audience hear the tail between vocal phrases.


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## Peter Cavallo (Dec 3, 2018)

Thanks guys, all very helpful. I can't post any clips from this project but have enough info to get going with a bit more confidence.


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## labornvain (Dec 3, 2018)

Divico said:


> While the trick that you mentioned is a good one, especially on vocals, I cant agree on this statement. (sry for my german pickyness )
> Predelay creates depth -> psycho-acoustically and helps to keep the reverb away from the transient of the source. If your drums are not punchy enough with reverb on, try some pre delay, but be careful to avoid an audible slapback.
> Reverb ducking helps imo especially with dense and also complex material and is really good in a creative form where you want the reverb tail to be heard. If you want to get away with a thick and lovely tail but the result is too cluttery this is a way to go. In Rock and Pop mixing you do this quite often to let the audience hear the tail between vocal phrases.


To clarify, when I said that ducking the reverb was more precise, I was referring specifically and exclusively to addressing the original poster's specific problem.

I'm well aware of the use of pre delay and agree with all of your assessment. I just think that ducking the reverb as I described, with a side chain compressor, may be a more effective solution to the original poster's specific problem. Or, quite possibly, a combination of the two.

Cheers.


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## Scoremixer (Dec 3, 2018)

It's really all dependent on the source. 

Distant mic'ed players in a great sounding hall? Easy, almost any reverb will do. Close mic'ed in a dry room? You'll have to work hard just to get something that sounds like a well-blended quartet, even before you work on the ambient part of the equation.

For the ambient part of the sound, try putting a filtered delay before your long reverb - helps break up the 'static-ness' of the sound before it hits the verb. Can't remember if valhalla room has tail modulation or not, but if not then try something that does, like vintage verb.


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## givemenoughrope (Dec 3, 2018)

Have you tried Flux SPAT?


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## Living Fossil (Dec 3, 2018)

It's completely useless to discuss specific plug ins unless it's not known in which way you use them.

Generally, a string quartett is made for not too big rooms.
It derives from chamber music.
There are string quartetts performing in (much too) big halls, but that's utter bullsh*t.

So, you should start with a room of a defined size; where you have the early reflections that provide your ensemble the "body". Usually, rooms with wooden floors sound great in combination with strings.
So that should be your starting point.
A livey room, with clear early reflections with a frequency range that has a nice rollof at the high-end.
(With a string quartett, you shouldn't worry too much about the basses; a cello is no "real" bass instrument, and in a large room you simply won't have those frequency buildups. However, between 200 and 400 Hz muddy things may happen).

For the "ambient" part, you are free in the moment where the base - a not too large nice room providing the "body" for sound stands. Here, you should focus on the frequencies that give you the feeling of width. No aggressive higher mid range (2.5 kHz easily make things sound small); let the vocals of the string sing in the bigger ambience (often, the interesting stuff in this area happens between 650 and 1600 Hz).
For ambient effects, also take a closer look at delays in addition.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 3, 2018)

Herr (not Frau, judging by the avatar?) Divico is a wise man: predelay, and filter the send.

I learned that the hard way a long time ago - endless struggling with EQ to try to get some clarity, when the problem was reverb mud.

And Gerhard's tip of using a short reverb to bridge the gap is an interesting idea. Ima try that next chance I get.


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