# MacOS Monterey - what audio software works so far?



## Alex Fraser

Alright crew.
Having taken the latest Monterey public beta for a spin, I can give a (cautious) heads up that the following workhorses _appear_ to work without issue:

☑️ Logic Pro (latest)
☑️ Kontakt (latest)
☑️ Spitfire Player (BBCSO, LABS, various "originals")

Also, NI Native Access and the Spitfire Installer seem to be functioning without issue.
Caveats: I haven't done a deep dive. Installed on a machine using only Core Audio hardware (no third party stuff) etc etc. You know the drill.
Will do a couple of sessions and report back in a couple of days.

Aside: Monterey is very nice.


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## redlester

Can you expand on how this has been going?

I’ve just bought a second hand but barely used 2013 Mac Pro as an upgrade from my 2012 Mac Mini (moving from Quad Core 2.3GHz 16GB to the heights of 6 core 3.5GHz 32GB). The main push for this came from the fact I can’t go beyond Catalina on the Mini, which is already impacting me - the Moog Model 15 plug-in only works on Big Sur. 

So following the oft recommended advice of staying a year behind current release, I will be installing Big Sur on the Pro this week ( it currently is on Mojave) along with the delights of a fresh install of all my apps etc. But I am very interested for ongoing reference in how Monterey behaves or otherwise. 

As an aside, I’ve been checking Big Sur compatibility for my existing stuff and even after a year since release there are still one or two things possibly may be a problem. The Moog Sub37 editor software I believe people still have issues with.

On a related subject I also noticed Izotope seem to be going down the Waves route of making relatively recent software redundant by not updating it for new OS. My copy of RX7 amongst other things will need updating to RX8 simply to be supported under Big Sur. RX7 does everything I need it to, there is no other reason for me to upgrade. I’d love to eventually ditch Izotope stuff as I did Waves, but are there any other alternatives to RX for audio restoration, which do as good as job without having to pay for an unnecessary annual upgrade?

Sorry, this is a bit rambling!


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## Alex Fraser

Hey Bruce - as far as the heavy hitters listed above go, so far so good. No issues. I'd be surprised if it took the big companies long to clear their products for Monterey use, post release.

I can't speak for the third party plugins etc as I don't use 'em.

As an OS, Monterey is quite nice. Lots of iOS integration, focus modes etc. Seems to run more or less the same as Big Sur. A few minor niggles at this point, but I haven't bothered updating to the new betas since the OP and will move straight to the final release.


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## redlester

Cheers for that. I have to be a bit more circumspect as I use loads of 3rd party stuff and in fact the most important factor is UAD compatibility for my Apollo interface.


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## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> Cheers for that. I have to be a bit more circumspect as I use loads of 3rd party stuff and in fact the most important factor is UAD compatibility for my Apollo interface.


Oh, totally.

As an Apple-y type of guy who uses a lot of iCloud etc, I made the decision a while back to trim the VI’s and plugs to allow an earlier OS upgrade. It’s a personal balance for each of us.


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## Dewdman42

Another thing to verify before committing is that some usb2 devices have problems in Big Sur. I haven’t tried it after 11.2.3 but my midi controller wouldn’t work, for example.

I do plan to give Monterrey a test run when it comes out


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## jackp9212

Anyone got any info on what plugins work on os Monterey. Now it’s public.


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## Alex Fraser

Nothing else really to add as originally stated in the OP, only that things appear to be working fine on a Monterey/10.7 combo.


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## PhilA

UAD Apollo twin working
Roland fp30x working
Light testing of Cubase working (very light testing it opened and I could add play and record instrument tracks)
Latest Waves update working
Pianoteq working
All Spectrasonics working


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## emasters

jackp9212 said:


> Anyone got any info on what plugins work on os Monterey. Now it’s public.


Out of a total of 1,612 plugins (many of those being various flavors of Waves), 37 didn't validate (across seven developers) - which is much better than I expected. The ones that didn't validate as AU with Logic Pro 10.7, include:

East West Spaces II
All MusicLab Real Guitar products (that I have)
Nugen Visualizer2
All Sonible products (that I have)
UVI effects - five not validating
All Zynaptiq products (that I have)
Exponential (iZotope) Excalibur, Nimbus, R4

Overall, Logic Pro is working fine - Kontakt seems ok (both standalone and plugin), Waves is fine, Fabfilter is fine, IK is fine, etc. I suspect there are minor issues yet to be discovered, though. I did notify the developers above and provided crash logs as requested. May take a while, but eventually they should get updated. On a positive note, yesterday I sent feedback to Apple about a question regarding a few of my Logic Pro templates (assuming my question would go into the Apple bit-bucket and be lost forever). I was amazed to have an email early this morning from a Apple Rep to answer the question I had. Kudo's to Apple being so fast with 1:1 support.


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## danwool

Haven't tried it, but Digital Performer 11 "is fully compatible and qualified for MacOS Monterey" ...looks like most of their current drivers are too.

A cursory look at the internet suggests transitioning to Monterey from Big Sur/Catalina won't be too difficult


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## Dewdman42

They have drivers yea, but some people are still reporting some odd problems with their MIDI drivers...


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## jackp9212

emasters said:


> Out of a total of 1,612 plugins (many of those being various flavors of Waves), 37 didn't validate (across seven developers) - which is much better than I expected. The ones that didn't validate as AU with Logic Pro 10.7, include:
> 
> East West Spaces II
> All MusicLab Real Guitar products (that I have)
> Nugen Visualizer2
> All Sonible products (that I have)
> UVI effects - five not validating
> All Zynaptiq products (that I have)
> Exponential (iZotope) Excalibur, Nimbus, R4
> 
> Overall, Logic Pro is working fine - Kontakt seems ok (both standalone and plugin), Waves is fine, Fabfilter is fine, IK is fine, etc. I suspect there are minor issues yet to be discovered, though. I did notify the developers above and provided crash logs as requested. May take a while, but eventually they should get updated. On a positive note, yesterday I sent feedback to Apple about a question regarding a few of my Logic Pro templates (assuming my question would go into the Apple bit-bucket and be lost forever). I was amazed to have an email early this morning from a Apple Rep to answer the question I had. Kudo's to Apple being so fast with 1:1 support.


Thanks


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## filter.sweep

Out of 1,350 Logic plugins, the following manufacturers crashed validation (48 total plugins):

- AIR Music Technology 
- BFD Drums
- Exponential Audio
- Expressive
- Heavyocity
- Krotos
- PSPaudioware
- sonible 
- Sound Radix
- UVI
- Zynaptiq


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## Dewdman42

I have been testing out Monterey today. The following things, for me, either crash validation, or don't work, or have some odd problems I haven't figured out yet

Exponential Audio reverb plugins
Jamstix4
Geist2 standalone
Tremor Standalone
AKAI VIP 
a few PSP plugins
Adaptiverb
Totalspaces2
In addition the Mail app doesn't seem to want to be able to automatically download mail artwork, you have to manually down load it. I have tried turning on and off various suggestion settings related to the new Privacy features...but to no avail.

I also expect it to have problems with my MOTU MTP, but I can't test that any time soon for other reasons.

Aside from that I found Monterey to be working well, Geekbench scores on par with my Catalina benchmarks. However I will be reverting back to Catalina for now.


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## Fizzlewig

Dewdman42 said:


> I have been testing out Monterey today. The following things, for me, either crash validation, or don't work, or have some odd problems I haven't figured out yet
> 
> Exponential Audio reverb plugins
> Jamstix4
> Geist2 standalone
> Tremor Standalone
> AKAI VIP
> a few PSP plugins
> Adaptiverb
> Totalspaces2
> In addition the Mail app doesn't seem to want to be able to automatically download mail artwork, you have to manually down load it. I have tried turning on and off various suggestion settings related to the new Privacy features...but to no avail.
> 
> I also expect it to have problems with my MOTU MTP, but I can't test that any time soon for other reasons.
> 
> Aside from that I found Monterey to be working well, Geekbench scores on par with my Catalina benchmarks. However I will be reverting back to Catalina for now.


How easy is it to revert back?


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## Zedcars

Dewdman42 said:


> In addition the Mail app doesn't seem to want to be able to automatically download mail artwork, you have to manually down load it. I have tried turning on and off various suggestion settings related to the new Privacy features...but to no avail.


If you haven’t already done so, please ensure the box next to “Load remote content in messages” is ticked/checked. It’s under the Viewing tab in Preferences.


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## Dewdman42

is it?


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## Dewdman42

Fizzlewig said:


> How easy is it to revert back?


Well I copied Catalina to a new volume and upgraded that one. So I have now a bootable Catalina and bootable Monterey. I can switch back and forth. For now, my real work will continue on Catalina. 

The only way to "revert" back is to have a full backup and restore it...or play around with Monterey on a secondary volume like I am doing.


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## jackp9212

Wonder how it is with the new m1, m1 pro and max chips


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## Zedcars

Dewdman42 said:


> is it?


On Mojave it was here, but looks like they’ve moved the bloody option elsewhere! 





Edit: Ah, they have changed how this works now. It’s all handled in the Privacy settings which you say you’ve already looked into. Are you using a VPN? There have been reports of issues like yours…









What to Do If You See 'Unable to Load Remote Content Privately' at the Top of an Email


Apple in iOS 15 introduced a new Mail Privacy Protection feature that's designed to obscure your IP address so email senders can't use it to...




www.macrumors.com


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## Dewdman42

There are a lot of people complaining on the internet about Mail remote image problems....its a confusing hot mess and somehow tied into the new privacy feature of Monterey, which is also still officially in beta...that particular feature is.. I couldn't get it to work at all, some people on the net seem like they did, some others were equally frustrated as me.

Anyway, I've deleted Monterey from my system at this point, sticking with Catalina for at least 6 months.


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## Zedcars

Dewdman42 said:


> There are a lot of people complaining on the internet about Mail remote image problems....its a confusing hot mess and somehow tied into the new privacy feature of Monterey, which is also still officially in beta...that particular feature is.. I couldn't get it to work at all, some people on the net seem like they did, some others were equally frustrated as me.
> 
> Anyway, I've deleted Monterey from my system at this point, sticking with Catalina for at least 6 months.


Ah Ok . See my edited my reply above. Sorry you’ve had so many problems.


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## danwool

jackp9212 said:


> Wonder how it is with the new m1, m1 pro and max chips


Do we know if the new MBPs ship with Monterey installed? ...I would think so, but I can't find that info anywhere.


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## Dewdman42

Zedcars said:


> Ah Ok . See my edited my reply above. Sorry you’ve had so many problems.


I wouldn't categorize it as "many" problems. That was the only real general Monterey issue I came across in the time I spent. A few software products I want to keep using are not compatible with Monterey either...so I'm going back to Catalina. Mainly I just wanted to see how it runs on my system and reporting the information for anyone that wants to know.


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## Zedcars

danwool said:


> Do we know if the new MBPs ship with Monterey installed? ...I would think so, but I can't find that info anywhere.


The new MBPs are advertised on Apple’s store as having Monterey so yes, they do.


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## Ben

It seems that the Monterey upgrade did break the GUIs of most of our plugins (the plugins work fine, but the GUIs are just black). Our developers are looking into the situation right now to find a solution and a fix as soon as possible.
We recommend not to upgrade yet if you are using any of our plugins, until we have solved these issues.


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## Fizzlewig

Ben said:


> It seems that the Monterey upgrade did break the GUIs of most of our plugins (the plugins work fine, but the GUIs are just black). Our developers are looking into the situation right now to find a solution and a fix as soon as possible.
> We recommend not to upgrade yet if you are using any of our plugins, until we have solved these issues.


The GUI is fine here with Synchron Pianos on Monterey.


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## Kent

Dewdman42 said:


> There are a lot of people complaining on the internet about Mail remote image problems....its a confusing hot mess and somehow tied into the new privacy feature of Monterey, which is also still officially in beta...that particular feature is.. I couldn't get it to work at all, some people on the net seem like they did, some others were equally frustrated as me.


I disable that anyways, as the remote content is how mail-opens are tracked.

I wish there were a native way to enable images without enabling tracking, but oh well.


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## Ben

Fizzlewig said:


> The GUI is fine here with Synchron Pianos on Monterey.


The standalone variants work just fine in our tests as well, but GUI is black when the plugins are used in a DAW / host.


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## Ukena

kmaster said:


> I disable that anyways, as the remote content is how mail-opens are tracked.
> 
> I wish there were a native way to enable images without enabling tracking, but oh well.


I have it disabled, too. A lot of bad actors can tell when you've opened their emails when remote content is automatically opened, which lets them know that their phishing expedition has hit a live address.

I also set up mail so that I can read the first few lines without having to actually open the individual email.


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## Kent

Ukena said:


> I also set up mail so that I can read the first few lines without having to actually open the individual email.


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## jackp9212

Ben said:


> It seems that the Monterey upgrade did break the GUIs of most of our plugins (the plugins work fine, but the GUIs are just black). Our developers are looking into the situation right now to find a solution and a fix as soon as possible.
> We recommend not to upgrade yet if you are using any of our plugins, until we have solved these issues.



Hi Ben. 

Is the VEpro 5 or any VE pro Server Interface still visible/usable in Daw. 

Thanks.


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## Ben

jackp9212 said:


> Hi Ben.
> 
> Is the VEpro 5 or any VE pro Server Interface still visible/usable in Daw.
> 
> Thanks.


VEP5 and MIR Pro seem to work, but no promises. We are still evaluating and testing.


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## tmhuud

Very impressed with MOTU. Usually they lag…






MOTU and macOS Monterey | News | MOTU.com







motu.com


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## danwool

tmhuud said:


> Very impressed with MOTU. Usually they lag…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MOTU and macOS Monterey | News | MOTU.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> motu.com


Yes! And with VSL for chiming in on this thread. It sounds like they'll be updating for Monterey asap...and hopefully updating for M1 native in the not too distant future


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## StefVR

Ben said:


> VEP5 and MIR Pro seem to work, but no promises. We are still evaluating and testing.


Great opportunity to focus on native apple silicon versions!


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## Ben

Native M1 support is high on our wishlist, but it will happen after the transition to iLok.
In the meantime from all the reports and internal testing you should be able to use our plugins on M1 via Rosetta (with acceptable performance).


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## khollister

Ben said:


> It seems that the Monterey upgrade did break the GUIs of most of our plugins (the plugins work fine, but the GUIs are just black). Our developers are looking into the situation right now to find a solution and a fix as soon as possible.
> We recommend not to upgrade yet if you are using any of our plugins, until we have solved these issues.


Oh-oh. Hopefully the VSL chaps will get this sorted by the time my M1 Max MBP arrives in 3 or 4 weeks.


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## Dewdman42

Ben said:


> Native M1 support is high on our wishlist, but it will happen after the transition to iLok.
> In the meantime from all the reports and internal testing you should be able to use our plugins on M1 via Rosetta (with acceptable performance).



Native Apple Silicon support is obviously something I sure you want to do, and don't mean to talk it down, but as of now I think most people that will be running VePro servers will be running them on various Intel boxes they have laying around, while their main desktop might eventually become M1 of some kind. I don't see that as a high priority either, though I can see if someone wants to run both their DAW and VePro on one machine for workflow reasons...and if they are on M1 now, then obviously they would want it, I get it. 

But I see a lot of other more pressing things I wish VSL would work on like VST3 support, for example.


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## danwool

Ben said:


> Native M1 support is high on our wishlist, but it will happen after the transition to iLok.
> In the meantime from all the reports and internal testing you should be able to use our plugins on M1 via Rosetta (with acceptable performance).


Transition to iLok is new info for me. My USB ports will be gratefull...which brings up: I guess we'd have heard by now if there were any iLok issues with Monterey, and Rosetta 2.


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## Shad0wLandsUK

Dewdman42 said:


> like VST3 support


Yes to this x1000


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## storyteller

If we were to freeze software in time right now at Big Sur and Windows 10, this is the first time in my tech life that I have ever been able to truly say that everything would be perfectly fine without the need to upgrade anymore. This goes for Mac and Windows. If it runs solidly today, why push OS changes and have to deal with all of the plugins and software being whacky? I like staying on top of the latest stuff, but we’ve really plateaued. We should be applauding the software designers and telling them to stop bloating the OS. Upgrade and add some features to apps? Sure. But why does an entire OS need to change? Seriously. It doesn’t. Quit breaking compatibility for the sake of… what, exactly… that’s the point here.


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## styledelk

Primarily the things that break things? Security.


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## Alex Fraser

To be contrary - I'd have to say that the stability of recent MacOSes has been amazing. If you consider the changes going on under the hood: APFS, the move to Apple Silicon. That it all hangs together somehow is a small miracle.

That's the tug of war for DAW users. Filling up a Mac with 1500 plugins from 50 different vendors will always cause mischief come OS changes. There's no way around that. Cake and eating etc.


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## emasters

Alex Fraser said:


> To be contrary - I'd have to say that the stability of recent MacOSes has been amazing. If you consider the changes going on under the hood: APFS, the move to Apple Silicon. That it all hangs together somehow is a small miracle.


I agree - with Monterey it's amazing how smooth the transition has been after a couple of days. A few plugins need to get updated. But beyond this, business as usual. And the OS seems stable - if anything, it's a bit more responsive (subjective perspective). The caveat being Logic Pro X as the DAW. If one uses a non-Apple DAW, definitely a different approach. Though, DP being ready on day-one is impressive.


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## hoxclab

Excuse me while I spew for a moment. I'm sick of Apple dropping all these latest and greatest horse-manure every six months. Developers waste all this time on keeping up with Apple users who make up less than 16% of computer users. I'm sick of it. It's stupid. They spend all this time farting around to appease 16% of users? Think about how many new features and updates could come out for programs instead of going to Apple computers. It drives me up the wall they cater to this bogusness.


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## Alex Fraser

hoxclab said:


> Excuse me while I spew for a moment. I'm sick of Apple dropping all these latest and greatest horse-manure every six months.


Every twelve months. Give or take. 😉


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## jcrosby

hoxclab said:


> Excuse me while I spew for a moment. I'm sick of Apple dropping all these latest and greatest horse-manure every six months. Developers waste all this time on keeping up with Apple users who make up less than 16% of computer users. I'm sick of it. It's stupid. They spend all this time farting around to appease 16% of users? Think about how many new features and updates could come out for programs instead of going to Apple computers. It drives me up the wall they cater to this bogusness.


That 16% doesn't hold up in the daw market though. Granted the link below is a minuscule sampling, but in every piece of info I've been able to find about the number of mac/win DAW users over the past few years is pretty consistent.

That's true of the general computing market for sure. MS has always had the edge in enterprise... But just like gaming tends to skew toward PC, DAW usage is also its own niche market that doesn't follow the larger computer market trend even slightly. And gaming is a solid example. That market skews based on lots of niche factors - GPU performance, product marketing (which the PC market totally owns), raw power-to-dollar-for-dollar value. Windows dominates games, and historically music production has been dominated by mac.

Logic often trends as second or third in popularity to Live. Macos also comes with a fully working DAW for free, Garage Band (which is not the GB you might think it was 10 years ago - it's now a bonafide lite version of Logic. It even hosts 3rd party plugins. If I had to work in GB for an entire track I could easily get it done.) And out of all of the working musicians I know the majority are actually on mac. Out of the number of electronic artists and DJs I've known over the years it's also the same, the majority tend to use macos, at least in a portable/laptop scenario. It's rare I see a DJ or electronic performer not using a macbook as their portable device. Same goes for touring bands with keyboard players.

That doesn't mean I don't disagree that Apple are becoming a royal pain in the ass to keep up with. But I'd be surprised if it wasn't a pretty evenly split if there were a way to accurately compare numbers. And unless one of the major DAW or plugin developers were to publish this info we can only speculate... But certainly based on 'working in the field' 16% doesn't even come close to the number of musicians I know who prefer mac to windows.

A drop in the bucket for sure, but this is the only poll that isn't a marketing firm projection based on fluff that I've been able to find currently. (25,000 is also a pretty big number when you compare the number of people other industries often use as a sample of data)








macProVideo.com


Digital Audio Workstations (DAWs) are the hub for 99% of all modern musicians and producers. It's where our ideas, feelings and collaborations start to take for




www.macprovideo.com


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## PhilA

hoxclab said:


> Excuse me while I spew for a moment. I'm sick of Apple dropping all these latest and greatest horse-manure every six months. Developers waste all this time on keeping up with Apple users who make up less than 16% of computer users. I'm sick of it. It's stupid. They spend all this time farting around to appease 16% of users? Think about how many new features and updates could come out for programs instead of going to Apple computers. It drives me up the wall they cater to this bogusness.


I think you’ll find it’s Windows which has the 6 monthly release cadence. macOS has been on a 12 month cycle for years. 😉


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## Ben

PhilA said:


> I think you’ll find it’s Windows which has the 6 monthly release cadence. macOS has been on a 12 month cycle for years. 😉


But when was the last time you had to adapt/"fix" software for a new Windows Update?


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## Troels Folmann

Soundpaint runs a bit faster in Monterey than previous OS by our preliminary estimates.


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## ennbr

Then again most of the Apple OS updates have been very smooth except for the change to 64 bit and that was more the 3rd party vendors who had years to make the change dragging there feet with 64 bit support.


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## PhilA

Ben said:


> But when was the last time you had to adapt/"fix" software for a new Windows Update?


Updates which are monthly, rarely. New versions on the 6 monthly cycle more frequently than you’d imagine (Speaking as a sysadmin with 22k windows desktops and 1000’s of servers at a large Research University)
One thing is for sure the current rate of change in the IT world in general is amazing for innovation but pretty poor for the end user experience.


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## khollister

Well the signal-to-noise ratio of this thread went south quickly. Can we get back on track of identifying what works and what doesn't? As someone with an incoming 16" MBP M1 Max, it is really helpful to know what to be cautious of.


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## PhilA

UVI Workstation behaving fine and dandy here too. (Specifically the Ravenscroft 275)


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## Nick Batzdorf

Ben said:


> But when was the last time you had to adapt/"fix" software for a new Windows Update?


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## goalie composer

I always hit up the Sweetwater website when a new MacOS comes out to keep an eye on compatibility: 









macOS 12 Monterey: Compatibility Guide - SweetCare


Learn about which computer audio products are compatible and supported on Apple's macOS 12 Monterey operating system.




www.sweetwater.com





GC


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## storyteller

jcrosby said:


> That 16% doesn't hold up in the daw market though. Granted the link below is a minuscule sampling, but in every piece of info I've been able to find about the number of mac/win DAW users over the past few years is pretty consistent.


In the US at least, I’d definitely place money on MacOS being the dominant system for music makers (and creatives in general). 



goalie composer said:


> I always hit up the Sweetwater website when a new MacOS comes out to keep an eye on compatibility:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> macOS 12 Monterey: Compatibility Guide - SweetCare
> 
> 
> Learn about which computer audio products are compatible and supported on Apple's macOS 12 Monterey operating system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sweetwater.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GC


Here is another good place to check… https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/monterey-audio-compatibility-chart-1


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## danwool

khollister said:


> Well the signal-to-noise ratio of this thread went south quickly. Can we get back on track of identifying what works and what doesn't? As someone with an incoming 16" MBP M1 Max, it is really helpful to know what to be cautious of.


Agreed on both.

Monterey has only been out a few days, but based on ProTools Expert's list, as of 10/28, nearly all plugins are yet TBD (Sweetwater's list isn't nearly as thorough). Makes me almost glad for the long shipping times. ...Now Mid Dec.



https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/monterey-audio-compatibility-chart-1



One relating to Apple Silicon compatibility: https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=556728&hilit=Apple+Silicon


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## Nimrod7

Ben said:


> But when was the last time you had to adapt/"fix" software for a new Windows Update?


Not to blame windows, I use both systems, but those comparisons don't make sense. 

- This week an nvidia driver update, broke Houdini in my CG workstation (I had to roll back the driver)
- Last month my network printers stopped working after a Windows update. I had to reinstall the driver and spend almost an hour, since those drivers are no joy to install.
- At random times a new keyboard layout installs itself, making switching languages confusing (had my bank account locked because some of the symbols switched positions in the keyboard, and didn't realised). 
- A few months back, BIOS decided not to boot, switched to the second BIOS, which booted, but never managed to recover the primary BIOS by following the manufacturer instructions... Still dead.

Macs are not ideal too, from monitors not waking after sleep, to hard drives freezing the OS (try to download and install VSL Libraries via the Downloader on the same external drive), it will totally freeze the OS, and requires hard restart. 

Babysitting computers


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## Shad0wLandsUK

Nimrod7 said:


> Not to blame windows, I use both systems, but those comparisons don't make sense.
> 
> - This week an nvidia driver update, broke Houdini in my CG workstation (I had to roll back the driver)
> - Last month my network printers stopped working after a Windows update. I had to reinstall the driver and spend almost an hour, since those drivers are no joy to install.
> - At random times a new keyboard layout installs itself, making switching languages confusing (had my bank account locked because some of the symbols switched positions in the keyboard, and didn't realised).
> - A few months back, BIOS decided not to boot, switched to the second BIOS, which booted, but never managed to recover the primary BIOS by following the manufacturer instructions... Still dead.
> 
> Macs are not ideal too, from monitors not waking after sleep, to hard drives freezing the OS (try to download and install VSL Libraries via the Downloader on the same external drive), it will totally freeze the OS, and requires hard restart.
> 
> Babysitting computers


As an IT Sys Admin, and owner of 2 Macs and 2 Windows machines, I feel your pain... everyday


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## Mr. Ha

I am still on Mojave and have been meaning to upgrade to Big Sur for a while but now I have read on multiple Mac forums, that there seems to be a general consensus that Montery's current release is more stable than the last version of Big Sur. 

I mainly use Kontakt, Logic Pro, Sforzando and Spitfire libraries so I think those should be fine with any upgrade but based on experience with Montery (beta or current release), is it hyperbole that Montery is more stable than Big Sur or is it correct? I am considering going to Montery immediately if it's a more stable Big Sur.

Thanks for any replies!


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## Alex Fraser

Mr. Ha said:


> I am still on Mojave and have been meaning to upgrade to Big Sur for a while but now I have read on multiple Mac forums, that there seems to be a general consensus that Montery's current release is more stable than the last version of Big Sur.
> 
> I mainly use Kontakt, Logic Pro, Sforzando and Spitfire libraries so I think those should be fine with any upgrade but based on experience with Montery (beta or current release), is it hyperbole that Montery is more stable than Big Sur or is it correct? I am considering going to Montery immediately if it's a more stable Big Sur.
> 
> Thanks for any replies!


Actually, I think Big Sur was a little better in this regard. Running Monterey here. A few niggles here and there with the OS, display etc. The "big guns" (Kontakt etc) are working fine though.


----------



## Dewdman42

I think it depends who you talk to. Backup first and try either one.


----------



## Sovereign

Ben said:


> It seems that the Monterey upgrade did break the GUIs of most of our plugins (the plugins work fine, but the GUIs are just black). Our developers are looking into the situation right now to find a solution and a fix as soon as possible.
> We recommend not to upgrade yet if you are using any of our plugins, until we have solved these issues.


Monterey comes with all new MacBooks Pro so there's no avoiding it there. Fired up my VSL pianos, but was greeted with an all black GUI. Hope you guys fix this soon.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I don't get this. I really don't.

OK, if you are buying one of the new MacBook Pro's then you have no choice - you get Monterey.

But exactly what features do you need that are in the new Mac OS's ?

Sit on Mojave/Catalina/Big Sur for a year or two. Why upgrade at all until you have to ?


----------



## KEM

If you buy a new Mac and set it up from a time machine backup that has an older OS wouldn’t that work?


----------



## rnb_2

KEM said:


> If you buy a new Mac and set it up from a time machine backup that has an older OS wouldn’t that work?


No - new Macs can only run the current version as of their release date (and newer). New machines are often running custom versions of the OS when they're released, with drivers that aren't integrated into the "public" version until the next major point release.


----------



## KEM

rnb_2 said:


> No - new Macs can only run the current version as of their release date (and newer). New machines are often running custom versions of the OS when they're released, with drivers that aren't integrated into the "public" version until the next major point release.



Interesting I’ll have to keep that in mind for whenever I get a new Mac, I was hoping I could just transfer my Mac exactly as it is right now but oh well


----------



## Ben

Sovereign said:


> Monterey comes with all new MacBooks Pro so there's no avoiding it there. Fired up my VSL pianos, but was greeted with an all black GUI. Hope you guys fix this soon.


Internal testing are running already, and it looks like we found the issue - but no promises until we finished testing.


----------



## Nimrod7

KEM said:


> I was hoping I could just transfer my Mac exactly as it is right now but oh well


The Migration Assistant works very well, even with totally different computers and OS versions (last time I transfered a Mini into a Mac Pro).
It's hard to tell the difference when it finishes.

The only thing didn't worked for me is some plugins got deactivated, and I needed to reactivate them.


----------



## KEM

Nimrod7 said:


> The Migration Assistant works very well, even with totally different computers and OS versions (last time I transfered a Mini into a Mac Pro).
> It's hard to tell the difference when it finishes.
> 
> The only thing didn't worked for me is some plugins got deactivated, and I needed to reactivate them.



Yeah I figured iLok and other per computer activation stuff I own would need to be reactivated on the machine but that’s not a huge deal, but it’s nice to hear that the transfer from one machine to another is pretty smooth, that’s always seemed very daunting to me and has kept me from upgrading for awhile


----------



## rnb_2

KEM said:


> Yeah I figured iLok and other per computer activation stuff I own would need to be reactivated on the machine but that’s not a huge deal, but it’s nice to hear that the transfer from one machine to another is pretty smooth, that’s always seemed very daunting to me and has kept me from upgrading for awhile


Migration Assistant usually does a very good job of moving your data and applications over, but there's no way to avoid running a newer OS if you've intentionally stayed a version or two (or three) behind and buy a just-released Mac. That can break plugins in some cases, in large and small ways. We did just go through a fairly tumultuous couple years on this front, with first the elimination of 32-bit software in Catalina, then a major interface change in Big Sur. Monterey is a smaller step, but the VSL situation demonstrates that problems can still crop up.


----------



## KEM

rnb_2 said:


> Migration Assistant usually does a very good job of moving your data and applications over, but there's no way to avoid running a newer OS if you've intentionally stayed a version or two (or three) behind and buy a just-released Mac. That can break plugins in some cases, in large and small ways. We did just go through a fairly tumultuous couple years on this front, with first the elimination of 32-bit software in Catalina, then a major interface change in Big Sur. Monterey is a smaller step, but the VSL situation demonstrates that problems can still crop up.



Yeah I just upgraded to Big Sur this week after being on High Sierra for about 4 or 5 years, it went relatively well aside from a few old plugins I’ll need to reinstall (or just delete if they won’t work at all)


----------



## Mr. Ha

rnb_2 said:


> Michael Antrum said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get this. I really don't.
> 
> OK, if you are buying one of the new MacBook Pro's then you have no choice - you get Monterey.
> 
> But exactly what features do you need that are in the new Mac OS's ?
> 
> Sit on Mojave/Catalina/Big Sur for a year or two. Why upgrade at all until you have to ?
Click to expand...

I don't really need any of the new features, though Airplay to Mac seems useful. I'm usually weary about updating but was considering updating to Big Sur when I heard that people said Montery was more stable. But now I've decided to stay on Mojave for another 6 months or so as I don't want to risk upgrading to Montery already and won't do a major OS update twice within a year.


----------



## Mr. Ha

KEM said:


> Yeah I just upgraded to Big Sur this week after being on High Sierra for about 4 or 5 years, it went relatively well aside from a few old plugins I’ll need to reinstall (or just delete if they won’t work at all)


How is the csystem performing, speed wise? I have heard that Big Sur is rather slow, compared to Mojave and Catalina.


----------



## KEM

Mr. Ha said:


> How is the csystem performing, speed wise? I have heard that Big Sur is rather slow, compared to Mojave and Catalina.



It definitely is slower than High Sierra was, Cubase looks like it’s at 10 fps now, very annoying


----------



## Dewdman42

I found Monterey to be on par with Catalina. Catalina was faster then Mojave which was faster then High Sierra, due mainly to Metal tech.

Monterey benchmarked the same as Catalina on my system and it felt smooth and fluid to use, etc. The only thing was I did notice that it SEEMED like apps took a few seconds longer to launch compared to Catalina. I have no measurements to back that up, just a feeling. This could be some kind of graphics related pre-loading or some such thing, hard to say.


----------



## KEM

Dewdman42 said:


> I found Monterey to be on par with Catalina. Catalina was faster then Mojave which was faster then High Sierra, due mainly to Metal tech.
> 
> Monterey benchmarked the same as Catalina on my system and it felt smooth and fluid to use, etc. The only thing was I did notice that it SEEMED like apps took a few seconds longer to launch compared to Catalina. I have no measurements to back that up, just a feeling. This could be some kind of graphics related pre-loading or some such thing, hard to say.



Is it better than Big Sur?


----------



## Dewdman42

I felt Big Sur was a little sluggish when I tried it briefly at version 11.2.3. But I was also running it on a regular HD rather than SSD, so hard to says for sure. It benchmarked slightly worse then Catalina.


----------



## KEM

Dewdman42 said:


> I felt Big Sur was a little sluggish when I tried it briefly at version 11.2.3. But I was also running it on a regular HD rather than SSD, so hard to says for sure. It benchmarked slightly worse then Catalina.



I’d like to upgrade to Monterey if it’s better but I’m afraid it’s just too early right now


----------



## rnb_2

KEM said:


> I’d like to upgrade to Monterey if it’s better but I’m afraid it’s just too early right now


What Mac are you running?


----------



## KEM

rnb_2 said:


> What Mac are you running?



2015 MacBook Pro


----------



## danwool

KEM said:


> I’d like to upgrade to Monterey if it’s better but I’m afraid it’s just too early right now


Based on what's in this thread I'd say it's too early. It was only released a week ago. There's a lot of plugins and other software yet to announce compatibility.


----------



## IFM

So far the only things not working are the aforementioned VSL interface being blank and a hard crash with EW Spaces II. Oddly enough the original Spaces loads and works perfectly.

As for VSL, I had another program with a similar issue and I'm in the Beta team. Turns out any window with a help link was blank and it was a small fix. I wonder if it is a similar issue. As for Spaces a reinstall did not help. Both VST, AU, and Standalone hard crash.


----------



## babylonwaves

danwool said:


> Based on what's in this thread I'd say it's too early. It was only released a week ago. There's a lot of plugins and other software yet to announce compatibility.


over the last year, I've made it a habit to update pretty much when WWDC takes place to the previous version. This way I get a stable release and I don't miss out. unless you have new hardware there is no reason for a musician to be up-to-date. at the same time, unless hardware requires it, there is no reason stay on a super old macOS. you will run into issues this way.


----------



## Nimrod7

I also update to the previous one, when the new OS is in Release Candidate. 
For the software I am not concerned usually, I am just checking if the hardware is compatible before doing so.

I updated to Big Sur maybe 1.5 months back.


----------



## GigStage

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> As an IT Sys Admin, and owner of 2 Macs and 2 Windows machines, I feel your pain... everyday


I manage a network of just 600+ Windows PCs (not to mention servers), the pain is great.

Just to confirm that Gig Performer (audio plugin host) works great with Monterey.


----------



## easyrider

Ben said:


> It seems that the Monterey upgrade did break the GUIs of most of our plugins (the plugins work fine, but the GUIs are just black). Our developers are looking into the situation right now to find a solution and a fix as soon as possible.
> We recommend not to upgrade yet if you are using any of our plugins, until we have solved these issues.


If I was a developer I’d be pretty hacked off with Apple….All this extra work needed to constantly fix shit….Must be an absolute nightmare….!


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

GigStage said:


> I manage a network of just 600+ Windows PCs (not to mention servers), the pain is great.
> 
> Just to confirm that Gig Performer (audio plugin host) works great with Monterey.


Always nice to have someone to share the pain with... along with thousands of redditors on r/sysadmin


----------



## gives19

Another reason to just stay on previous OS if you can. I'm still thriving quite well on Catalina, which I just updated to earlier in 2021. And I know if you have a new Mac it's not an option probably, but not really seeing a reason to go there right now anyway for what I am doing.


----------



## tmhuud

lol. We tried updating one of our Trash cans to Montery and it says you need Catalina first. Called APPLE. They sent links to the older OS's. Tried installing Catalina and it said "You have to have Catalina to instal Catalina".. Hahahahahah!!! WTF!? Even APPLE cant figure it out. They suggested a complete clean installation. I said ForgettaBoutIt.... Were happy with Mojave.....


----------



## gives19

tmhuud said:


> lol. We tried updating one of our Trash cans to Montery and it says you need Catalina first. Called APPLE. They sent links to the older OS's. Tried installing Catalina and it said "You have to have Catalina to instal Catalina".. Hahahahahah!!! WTF!? Even APPLE cant figure it out. They suggested a complete clean installation. I said ForgettaBoutIt.... Were happy with Mojave.....


Yeah. The only reason I went to Mojave, which the upgrade to Catalina was seamless, was because I was working closely with Avid on my ProTools system which I had done a huge and costly upgrade to MTRX and Dolby Atmos room here.. It has totally paid off for me as a business and really streamlined my system totally. Even with my late 2013 Mac Pro, I have not CPU issues at all. They really tweaked the system for Catalina and also I was advise even now to stay on Catalina for Atmos. BTW if you need an installer for Catalina. I have all of the installers here I think. There should also been an easy way to grab it at any rate. Also Mojave to Monterey is too big of a jump, since it was not totally 64 bit probably as Catalina had some major updates in security etc. Maybe that was it. Also, I never did a clean install either. Absolutely no issues.


----------



## Sovereign

Ben said:


> Internal testing are running already, and it looks like we found the issue - but no promises until we finished testing.


Any update on this progress?


----------



## danwool

Sovereign said:


> Any update on this progress?


I'm watching this as well, hoping VEP's Monterey compatibility gets worked out soon.

Saw this post from today on the VSL community forum from a VSL product manager: _"I hope we can present working versions this week, but I'm afraid I can't make any promises. I will keep you up to date in this thread!"_

that thread: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...n-interface-is-black?find=lastpost#post306293


----------



## Ben

Get your updates here: https://www.vsl.co.at/MyVSL
Changelogs: https://www.vsl.info/manuals/changelogs/synchron-player


----------



## danwool

Most (all?) Zynaptiq plugins have been updated for Monterey. https://www.zynaptiq.com


----------



## emasters

And UVI effect plugins and MusicLab Real Guitar series plugins are also updated now, for Monterey.


----------



## redlester

I recently moved from a 2012 Mini to a Trashcan and upgraded the latter to Big Sur. All good, no issues. I cant go to Monterey at very minimum until UAD announce full compatibility, but will probably leave it until next summer/autumn.

What I have noticed is more often lately certain software is leading down the route of updates being required, such as Logic's latest version now has a minimum requirement of Catalina I believe. Also the recent release in plug-in format of the Moog Model 15 (previously iOS only) requires Big Sur as a minimum!


----------



## rnb_2

redlester said:


> I recently moved from a 2012 Mini to a Trashcan and upgraded the latter to Big Sur. All good, no issues. I cant go to Monterey at very minimum until UAD announce full compatibility, but will probably leave it until next summer/autumn.
> 
> What I have noticed is more often lately certain software is leading down the route of updates being required, such as Logic's latest version now has a minimum requirement of Catalina I believe. Also the recent release in plug-in format of the Moog Model 15 (previously iOS only) requires Big Sur as a minimum!


The increasingly-stringent OS requirements for Logic haven't really been explained or investigated - there are undoubtedly underlying reasons for them, but nobody knows exactly what they are. The Moog requirement is almost certainly because they're using some Big Sur-specific methods for converting the iPad app to run on the Mac. Catalina had something similar, but Apple made improvements in Big Sur.


----------



## jbuhler

redlester said:


> What I have noticed is more often lately certain software is leading down the route of updates being required, such as Logic's latest version now has a minimum requirement of Catalina I believe. Also the recent release in plug-in format of the Moog Model 15 (previously iOS only) requires Big Sur as a minimum!


Latest versions of Logic, Final Cut Pro, and Motion all require Big Sur.


----------



## Soundbed

I grabbed the cheapest M1 Mac mini from Costco.

Upgraded to Monterrey immediately, before really installing anything.

Doing a "clean" install, because the drive is too small to consider the slick Mac "transfer my previous computer" routine.

Let me know if you have any questions or requests, as I continue to load things up one by one.

So far Abbey Road Two is working fine.
I can only find an AU version of Kontakt though.


----------



## tsk

Soundbed said:


> I grabbed the cheapest M1 Mac mini from Costco.
> 
> Upgraded to Monterrey immediately, before really installing anything.
> 
> Doing a "clean" install, because the drive is too small to consider the slick Mac "transfer my previous computer" routine.
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions or requests, as I continue to load things up one by one.
> 
> So far Abbey Road Two is working fine.
> I can only find an AU version of Kontakt though.


When you say you can only find an AU version of Kontakt, is that a bad thing? On my mac (Intel chip) I think I'm only using the AU version. Now I think about it I don't even know for sure.


----------



## macmac

Soundbed said:


> I grabbed the cheapest M1 Mac mini from Costco.
> 
> Upgraded to Monterrey immediately, before really installing anything.
> 
> Doing a "clean" install, because the drive is too small to consider the slick Mac "transfer my previous computer" routine.
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions or requests, as I continue to load things up one by one.
> 
> So far Abbey Road Two is working fine.
> I can only find an AU version of Kontakt though.


That would be an 8GB…how is that doing?


----------



## JohnG

AVID does not yet support either PT ultimate or Sibelius. However, Sweetwater's indication that _nothing_ from AVID is supported yet is overly general, as some of their software is compatible.


----------



## Soundbed

tsk said:


> When you say you can only find an AU version of Kontakt, is that a bad thing? On my mac (Intel chip) I think I'm only using the AU version. Now I think about it I don't even know for sure.


It’s certainly odd to me. I look at the installers and some of them say 0kb will be required for VST. I find it odd that VST isn’t even getting installed. I don’t see a huge problem in practice yet. 



macmac said:


> That would be an 8GB…how is that doing?


Everything was going fine until I decided to try a solo cello “shootout” in Kontakt last night. 

With no other apps running, only standalone Kontakt, I can load enough (different) solo cellos to make Kontakt start glitching and pausing and having clicky playback. Playing “monophonic” legato lines in one solo instrument at a time. My swap file was around 4GB. 

🥴

On the other hand I haven’t changed the preference to use only 6k of preload buffer, yet. Will do that and try again. 

But this almost serves to “prove” maybe for a few or at least provide evidence for a few unconvinced that there is no magical M1 feature that gets around Kontakt’s need for system recognized “wired RAM” … also memory pressure didn’t significantly decrease after trying to purge all samples. Because Kontakt doesn’t actually purge everything, as many of us know (but others can explain better than me).


----------



## emasters

East West released Spaces 2.0.3 today - which now runs on Monterey. Thanks East West!


----------



## macmac

Mr. Ha said:


> How is the csystem performing, speed wise? I have heard that Big Sur is rather slow, compared to Mojave and Catalina.


I just upgraded to Big Sur from Mojave, but did it on a separate external SSD. I first installed Big Sur fresh onto the external then used migration assistant to bring over my stuff. It seems very fast, and definitely doesn’t feel slower than Mojave which is still on my internal main drive.


----------



## Soundbed

Not sure if this is Monterey or the M1 Mac Mini (or the combination) but in Studio One 5 when I switch instruments there is a noticeable clicking sound, brief silence and if the instrument was open, a slightly laggy screen redraw. This does not happen on my Intel in Mohjave. Switching instruments is smooth as butter. It might not bother someone else but I cannot use this (Monterey / M1) for my demo videos because of the blip and the brief silence.

Joey Sturgis Tones (JST) plugins are not yet compatible from what I can tell.


----------



## rnb_2

Soundbed said:


> Not sure if this is Monterey or the M1 Mac Mini (or the combination) but in Studio One 5 when I switch instruments there is a noticeable clicking sound, brief silence and if the instrument was open, a slightly laggy screen redraw. This does not happen on my Intel in Mohjave. Switching instruments is smooth as butter. It might not bother someone else but I cannot use this (Monterey / M1) for my demo videos because of the blip and the brief silence.
> 
> Joey Sturgis Tones (JST) plugins are not yet compatible from what I can tell.


This might be a RAM issue - I don't remember seeing this on my 16GB M1s, but I'd have to try it to be sure. The slow screen redraw might be an indication of some sort of contention between RAM needed for the DAW and RAM needed for the GPU.


----------



## Soundbed

rnb_2 said:


> This might be a RAM issue - I don't remember seeing this on my 16GB M1s, but I'd have to try it to be sure. The slow screen redraw might be an indication of some sort of contention between RAM needed for the DAW and RAM needed for the GPU.


Oh! Very interesting (potential) consequence of the 8GB. I hadn't considered that! Thanks again for your insights!


----------



## Dewdman42

Looks like Exponential Audio reverb plugins now work on Monterey with the latest update from Apple to MacOS 12.3. No update needed from Exponential audio.


----------



## danwool

Dewdman42 said:


> Looks like Exponential Audio reverb plugins now work on Monterey with the latest update from Apple to MacOS 12.3. No update needed from Exponential audio.


That's good news for the short term, but since iZotope have officially abandoned Exponential reverbs I'm hoping to eliminate them (EA reverbs) from my practice entirely - a real drag actually, since I've yet to find a suitable surround reverb to replace it. ...also, reports of MacOS 12.3 creating problems with external monitors has me waiting to update until that issue is addressed.


----------



## Dewdman42

what makes you feel that they have "officially abandoned" those reverbs? They are still for sale... their tech support told me they are planning to continue supporting them.


----------



## danwool

Dewdman42 said:


> what makes you feel that they have "officially abandoned" those reverbs? They are still for sale... their tech support told me they are planning to continue supporting them.


Really? Perhaps plans have changed. Tech support told *me* in December they would not be supporting them, saying "At this time, native M1 support for all Exponential Audio products is not planned". They gave me a free copy of their stereo consumerish Neoverb, as consolation.

It's gone now, but there was a list of iZotope products on their site a while back that indicated that no M1 support was planned for the EA reverbs - which initiated my contacting support. The fact that iZotope is still selling the EA reverbs seems misleading at best.


----------



## Dewdman42

this was my response from them:



> Unfortunately at this time, Monterey has not been qualified for use with iZotope and Exponential Audio plugins. For more information and updates on Monterey compatibility please go to: https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/articles/4409281658771-Compatibility-with-macOS-12-Monterey
> 
> On this page, we do list Breaktweaker as well as other plug-ins that currently are not planned for Native compatibility with M1, but they are functioning with Rosetta mode. This doesn't mean that native support is not coming, but we have other products that are taking priority first. Exponential has been known to work with M1 using rosetta, but we are currently seeing compatibility issues with Monterey across the board with our products. https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-u...OS-11-Big-Sur-and-Apple-Silicon-Compatibility





> we do update our software for the current OS and the products we sell now are in line with that goal of service. Thank you for your patience while we update them, we understand the desire to stay updated with the latest OS.


----------



## JohnG

I still see evidence that companies are still working on Monterey compatibility. It's not my main DAW or notation programmes, which are compatible. It's ancillary stuff like audio interfaces, midi / USB connections, and the like. But all that has to work or nothing does, at least the way I'm set up.


----------



## danwool

Dewdman42 said:


> this was my response from them:





Dewdman42 said:


> this was my response from them:


This mostly supports my info, doesn't it? No EA on that list. Gleaning future EA support from "This doesn't mean that native support is not coming" may be optimistic. Especially if you consider the clarity in the response I got from support about this.


----------



## Dewdman42

no I do not agree with your categorical statement that they have "officially abandoned". that is overly dramatic and as such, false.

They clearly have not abandoned it, though it does appear they are not currently working on or planning any work on Apple Silicon native support for EA products....which I suspect is because the original developer does not work for izotope. 

Nonetheless, they have expressed intent to support it for intel and certainly on the windows platform I see no reason it would not continued to be sold and supported. 

It might be more correct for you to say, at this point in time, that Izotope has no plan to support Apple Silicon Macs with EA products. That may or may not change in the future. They have not as such declared this product as abandoned, nor as deprecated, nor as discontinued and its still for sale. 

They are pretty nice reverbs too! But I don't disagree with you that if you're on M1 or plan to soon..probably not a good idea to depend on them until izotope says otherwise.


----------



## Dewdman42

JohnG said:


> I still see evidence that companies are still working on Monterey compatibility. It's not my main DAW or notation programmes, which are compatible. It's ancillary stuff like audio interfaces, midi / USB connections, and the like. But all that has to work or nothing does, at least the way I'm set up.


For sure. I'm not having any hardware problems, but the one thing I am unable to test at the current time are my old MOTU midi interfaces as I am in between homes at the moment and they are deep in storage. I rather suspect problems...especially when I finally move to M1 someday...but I have already accepted that in the future I may have to get some new midi hardware to roll forward, these are pretty old devices. My audio stuff all works...its all good. 

There was one other problem I had with my midi keyboard,....its a legacy USB device and my understanding is that some older low speed USB devices like this maybe revert to USB1.1 or something and basically Monterey doesn't support 1.1. Something like that. But I found that if I unplug them and plug them back in, they work fine in Monterey, but still, who wants to do that? I also found that if I plug them into a hub, the hub seems to make it all work without having to do that...because it never gets detected as 1.1, the HUB prevents that from happening... So fine....


----------



## Dewdman42

On another note, I just tried the new "Universal Control" feature and its actually pretty cool. My iPad is often setup to the side of my Mac. And I can't tell you how many times in the past I have tried to take my mouse pointer past the edge of my main display over to the iPad and gone "whoops, that isn't an external monitor". but now with Universal Control I can actually just move the mouse pointer right onto the iPad and control it! Its actually pretty cool. I was thinking that might not work with OpenCore 5,1 Mac...but it does work fine and I like it.

Overall, I'm pleased with Monterey, but I definitely agree, you should backup first and make sure to do your homework to see if any of your must-have hardware or software is fully compatible.


----------



## danwool

Dewdman42 said:


> no I do not agree with your categorical statement that they have "officially abandoned". that is overly dramatic and as such, false.
> 
> They clearly have not abandoned it, though it does appear they are not currently working on or planning any work on Apple Silicon native support for EA products....which I suspect is because the original developer does not work for izotope.
> 
> Nonetheless, they have expressed intent to support it for intel and certainly on the windows platform I see no reason it would not continued to be sold and supported.
> 
> It might be more correct for you to say, at this point in time, that Izotope has no plan to support Apple Silicon Macs with EA products. That may or may not change in the future. They have not as such declared this product as abandoned, nor as deprecated, nor as discontinued and its still for sale.
> 
> They are pretty nice reverbs too! But I don't disagree with you that if you're on M1 or plan to soon..probably not a good idea to depend on them until izotope says otherwise.


Yes. I am on an M1, and will be moving on from EA reverbs.

Though iZotope are being transparent about the future of EA reverbs, you are correct that "officially abandoned" is a mischaracterization - it would make life simpler if companies made such statements, but they rarely do. I'm grateful for the clarity they have provided. At least this way I knew to start looking for a suitable replacement for Stratus 3D for my M1 setup.


----------



## emasters

With the update to Logic Pro X 10.7.3 and Mac OS 12.3, all the iZotope EA reverbs now scan correctly and work -- go figure! Same with Nugen's Visualizer which also previously crashed during the Logic plugin scan process. There were no updates from either company, and yet those plugins now work . I have no idea what changed (OS or DAW) to effect this. Funny -- when scanning breaks with a new Mac OS, I immediately think of the plugin developer needing to incorporate a change (forgetting Apple's role in this process is significant). All my plugins now work as expected in Monterey (at least, the way I use them).


----------



## danwool

emasters said:


> With the update to Logic Pro X 10.7.3 and Mac OS 12.3, all the iZotope EA reverbs now scan correctly and work -- go figure! Same with Nugen's Visualizer which also previously crashed during the Logic plugin scan process. There were no updates from either company, and yet those plugins now work . I have no idea what changed (OS or DAW) to effect this. Funny -- when scanning breaks with a new Mac OS, I immediately think of the plugin developer needing to incorporate a change (forgetting Apple's role in this process is significant). All my plugins now work as expected in Monterey (at least, the way I use them).


I know you're using Logic, but by chance do you also use the MAS version of VEP (with DP)? That plugin has been the biggest stumbling block by far in my transition to M1. If that works in Rosetta it'd be a small miracle....and definitely worth the risk of updating to 12.3 - it's starting to look like the display bug with 12.3 some have reported is rare anyway.


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## Dewdman42

emasters said:


> With the update to Logic Pro X 10.7.3 and Mac OS 12.3, all the iZotope EA reverbs now scan correctly and work -- go figure! Same with Nugen's Visualizer which also previously crashed during the Logic plugin scan process. There were no updates from either company, and yet those plugins now work . I have no idea what changed (OS or DAW) to effect this. Funny -- when scanning breaks with a new Mac OS, I immediately think of the plugin developer needing to incorporate a change (forgetting Apple's role in this process is significant). All my plugins now work as expected in Monterey (at least, the way I use them).



This is the theory I heard from someone else:


> It seems to be, according to some educated guesses from (_credible developer name removed_), who encountered and fixed a similar issue in his plugins, some issue with a Pace wrapper signing in earlier versions of Monterey, which is fixed now in macOS 12.3 - that was causing the EA plugins to crash in Monterey before 12.3.


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## emasters

Dewdman42 said:


> This is the theory I heard from someone else:


Perhaps that's the difference? Definitely seems associated with the Monterey 12.3 update. Interesting if it's the Pace wrapper versus the plugin code itself. Thanks!


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## emasters

danwool said:


> I know you're using Logic, but by chance do you also use the MAS version of VEP (with DP)? That plugin has been the biggest stumbling block by far in my transition to M1. If that works in Rosetta it'd be a small miracle....and definitely worth the risk of updating to 12.3 - it's starting to look like the display bug with 12.3 some have reported is rare anyway.


Sorry, I don't use that so can't share anything about it. Good luck!


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## danwool

Anyone here have any display issues after updating to 12.3?

A colleague was bitten by the display issue associated with MacOS 12.3 yesterday (displays not being recognized among others). I'm on a 2021 M1 Max running three non-Apple displays. Even though the update appears to fix some plugins, I'm thinking I'll wait until the bug is sorted out before updating.


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## emasters

danwool said:


> Anyone here have any display issues after updating to 12.3?


I have an external 4K LG monitor, as well as the native (Intel) MacBook Pro display. No issues here.


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## khollister

12.3.1 was released specifically to address the external display and bluetooth issues some reported.


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## Grégory Betton

danwool said:


> Yes. I am on an M1, and will be moving on from EA reverbs.
> 
> Though iZotope are being transparent about the future of EA reverbs, you are correct that "officially abandoned" is a mischaracterization - it would make life simpler if companies made such statements, but they rarely do. I'm grateful for the clarity they have provided. At least this way I knew to start looking for a suitable replacement for Stratus 3D for my M1 setup.


If needed here is the iZotope support post about their m1/Rosetta implementation: https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-u...OS-11-Big-Sur-and-Apple-Silicon-Compatibility


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## Grégory Betton

emasters said:


> With the update to Logic Pro X 10.7.3 and Mac OS 12.3, all the iZotope EA reverbs now scan correctly and work -- go figure! Same with Nugen's Visualizer which also previously crashed during the Logic plugin scan process. There were no updates from either company, and yet those plugins now work . I have no idea what changed (OS or DAW) to effect this. Funny -- when scanning breaks with a new Mac OS, I immediately think of the plugin developer needing to incorporate a change (forgetting Apple's role in this process is significant). All my plugins now work as expected in Monterey (at least, the way I use them).


Having just installed the demo version of Symphony 3D on my Mac Studio Max I do confirm. I had to reboot the Mac though.

(Now the question is should I invest in something which is apparently not maintained anymore)


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## danwool

Grégory Betton said:


> Having just installed the demo version of Symphony 3D on my Mac Studio Max I do confirm. I had to reboot the Mac though.
> 
> (Now the question is should I invest in something which is apparently not maintained anymore)


If you’ve got the money to burn then go for it. They’re great reverbs that should work fine until at least the next MacOS, and possibly as long as Rosetta is part of the OS.


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## Grégory Betton

danwool said:


> If you’ve got the money to burn then go for it. They’re great reverbs that should work fine until at least the next MacOS, and possibly as long as Rosetta is part of the OS.


Well there’s an upgrade from IZotope Rx 9 to Post production suite which is nearly the same as the sole upgrade to Rx Advanced… which is included in the bundle! So the reverbs are basically free cherries on the cake.


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## jonathanwright

I see Ozone is now M1 native.


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## Snoobydoobydoo

Experiences with the UVI Workstation?


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