# Will TRUMPOSIS lead to the demise of the USA ....



## Udo (Jan 30, 2017)

A quote from USA novelist Philip Roth (remember “Portnoy’s Complaint"?) put it nearly as well as I would  :

“Trump is ignorant of government, of history, of science, of philosophy, of art, incapable of expressing or recognizing subtlety or nuance, destitute of all decency,” Roth told a magazine in a string of emails. He “wields a vocabulary of seventy-seven words that is better called Jerkish than English.”


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## G.R. Baumann (Jan 30, 2017)

To describe Trump needs two words only: Man-child!


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## pixel (Jan 30, 2017)

G.R. Baumann said:


> To describe Trump needs two words only: Man-child!


Yep. I think that he never had real friends even as a kid. Maybe problems parents-child was issue too as this guy have symptoms of low self-esteem. Someone need to feel really low to boost ego with stuff like apartment filled with gold (except it's church of course...). Being loud and troll are used to cover low self esteem. Typical behaviour of guy with unhappy childhood. Well... also great man for dictator role. 

I see that his supporters see him as great troll and it makes them happy. Very mature behaviour that match level of their prince on white horse from their wet dreams


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## JonFairhurst (Jan 30, 2017)

Based on global research that included men and women, rich and poor, young and old, 1st world and 3rd world, there are five common pillars of ethics. These are

Compassion
Fairness
Truth
Responsibility
Respect
All five are important. One's ethics aren't judged by their highest score. It is judged by the lowest. For instance, the prison guard might get to work on time, salute his commanding officer, and write a highly detailed and accurate report, but it counts for nothing if he beats the inmates.

Trump scores incredibly low. The man is cruel, he rips people off, he lies BIG, he didn't divest, and he insults people publicly. The man is an ethical zero.

Here's the rub: his supporters love it. But why? 

Fear.

If one is secure, it's easy to treat people well. If one feels that their very life is at risk, well...

Consider a hero. A hero will risk their life for a stranger. It's not that they don't feel fear. It's that they overcome it.

The opposite of a hero is a coward. A coward will risk another's life to save their own skin. People who ditch ethics for abstract fear (it's not like the zombies are at our windows) are cowards. 

We need to educate people about ethics. We need to let people know that heroes overcome fear and that cowards let fear override ethics.

Consider honor. When the ship is going down, women and children (the weak) get on the life rafts first. Now listen to the alt-right. They want the strong to dominate the weak "snowflakes". The alt-right philosophy is without ethics and without honor. Great soldiers and police are defined by honor. "I was following orders" is not honorable.

Unfortunately, our society has lost this framework. Trump's opponents point to his bad actions, but they don't define the actions in ethical terms. They know what's right and wrong, but don't voice it well. And without the framework, they will often fight back unethically. We need to fight back ethically and honorably.

And we need to shine a light on the unethical, dishonorable nature of Trump and his base. And those who passively enable authoritarianism should feel shame for their cowardice.

So when trying to figure out if an action is right or wrong, look to the five pillars at the top of this post. What solution violates them the least? If we can all raise the floor, we will enhance trust and live much more happy, successful lives.


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## G.R. Baumann (Jan 31, 2017)

JonFairhurst said:


> Unfortunately, our society has lost this framework



Yes, and perhaps further questioning is useful for better future decisions. People are treated as consumers and not as citizens. When only 15 % of capital is going into productive economy, and the rest is gambled away in the global casino, without any risk, the foundation of this society needs to be reformed.

A multidimensional crisis requires multidimensional solutions, one group alone, politicians, will not untie this knot, a knot that turned into a Gordian over time, and we know that there is only one solution for that.

Society needs to "disembowel bankers". All those post 2008 promises were not kept, to big to fail.... etc, on the contrary, the heist continued, and culminated in a sociopath "leading" a Goldman Sachs Government. There is very little difference between Erdogan and Trump left to be described. It is off the scale, really.

I concur Jon, it is up to everyone to allow a new deal, a global new deal, to be developed, for all humankind.


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## G.R. Baumann (Jan 31, 2017)

Allow me to link to this excellent article:



> In modern world, wars must be outlawed. _Mikhail Gorbachev_



http://time.com/4645442/gorbachev-putin-trump/


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## chimuelo (Jan 31, 2017)

Interesting, that's exactly what Putin did and his countrymen love him.
All except how he was allowed to take Crimea while nations cowered, then Ukraine, Syria.

He removed the Rothschild Bankers, then threw out the Wall Street Journal.
Our bankers were let off the hook after promising otherwise.
This opened the door for others to continue since there's no accountability.
Even a Liberal Governor broke the law by taking investors money and pouring it into Greek Bonds.
1.5 billion dollars, but no charges, no penalty.
Liberal billionaire owns 11% of Wells Fargo, his CEO gets busted by a journalist from the LA Times, not the Compliance Officers who Dodd Frank require watch the day to day practice.
Then gets called before the mighty Senator Warren who wanted to lock up bankers until she met Hillary, and she pretended to be concerned, the CEO got 140,000,000 severance and skates.

So, does anyone believe these cackling Hens who get campaigns funded by Wall Street will do anything?
Nope, but funny how they complain about having their campaign donors with a direct pipeline to power now that it funds the other law firm.

A new party in the future should not be allowed to take money from entities they pass legislation on.
Getting rid of the Do as I say, not as I do elites would be a great start.

Guess we have to live with Bankers running the show thanks to the last administration of broken promises.


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## G.R. Baumann (Jan 31, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> All except how he was allowed to take Crimea while nations cowered, then Ukraine



BS as usual! 

The insane EU-Ukraine Association Agreement from 27 June 2014 was the provokation and pre-text for the turmoil that followed, not Russia moving into Crimea, that came afterwards.


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## chimuelo (Jan 31, 2017)

Sorry about the order of failed politics, I'm referring to land grabs that go unchallenged.
The rockets that took out the Civilian Airliner were fired from Ukrainian territory.
That also went unchallenged, as did every other place where land was taken in Libya, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, etc. etc.

But for the sake of staying on topic, remove people who fail, end of problems.


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## JonFairhurst (Jan 31, 2017)

I realize that I lumped too many Trump supporters into the coward category. Let me fix that. As I see it, there are four types of supporters.

1) Cowards. ("They want to kill us. Nuke them all!")
2) Ignorant. ("I don't follow politics, but I know that he's rich and famous.")
3) Stupid. ("I like rabbits, George.")
4) Evil. ("Ethics are for weaklings. I will dominate you, Snowflake!)

People in the evil category don't see themselves that way. They will justify their actions and decisions until they die. But they clearly do not behave ethically and have disdain for those who do. Maybe "evil" is too strong, too biblical. "Sociopathic" is the more modern, scientific term. 

And is there any doubt that when a person calls a total stranger "cuck" and "snowflake" that they are behaving like a sociopath? When they do it online, it might be that they are also cowards. When they do it in public to people's faces, they are truly sociopaths.

Is there any doubt that our current president is a sociopath? Time to call my representative again...


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## Michael K. Bain (Jan 31, 2017)

JonFairhurst said:


> And is there any doubt that when a person calls a total stranger "cuck" and "snowflake" that they are behaving like a sociopath?



I think the term "cuck" is stupid, but come on, are you telling me that this person isn't perfect example of "snowflake" (overly sensitive person)?


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## chimuelo (Jan 31, 2017)

Snowflake..?
Is that Trumps or Fox News term?

First time I heard that.
Almost as good as Girly men, which fits the other 2 Liberals that were in the video.

I pray Liberals never are in charge of foreign policy again.

I can handle their domestic shaming stuff, some of it's necessary since a generation of fragile hatchlings recently graduated and work at Star Bucks.
But you get the title of Barista for the 9.00 dollar wage, and 28 hours for the Liberal work week.

I've had to refrain from calling graduates at the grocery store baggers.
I was reminded it was offensive and Zenaphobic.
They prefer to be called Agricultural Product Organizers.
College graduates with 2 years experience are referred to as APOs.
I heard them on the PA System calling for an APO at counter 15.

Watching the Pelosi choir I tried to imagine the group as being responsible for national security.
Just not seeing that.

I'm surprised our enemies didn't invade the entire country in 2012....
Probably worried their troops would drop their weapons and collect housing, health care, food stamps and free shitty school.
Our victims of poverty can score 48,000 a year in benefits.
Those poor foreign troops make 20 bucks a week, and that's for hazardous duty pay.


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## Baron Greuner (Jan 31, 2017)

Student politics and protests! Hahahahah. Fuck me, someone call the riot police, I just got hit in the eye by a balloon. Oh hang on, they're already here.


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## Brian2112 (Jan 31, 2017)

Hey flopping is ok in the NBA why not politics?


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## Soundhound (Jan 31, 2017)

That clip is annecdotal right wing garbage. Useless in any rational, grownup discussion.

The people who voted for Trump have been brainwashed by decades of right wing propaganda. You can not, under any circumstances, have voted for Trump and know what's going on in the real world.

I think Jon's categories makes sense, but most of these people are of course a mixture of these things. I have not yet met an intelligent Trump voter.




Michael K. Bain said:


> I think the term "cuck" is stupid, but come on, are you telling me that this person isn't perfect example of "snowflake" (overly sensitive person)?


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## KEnK (Jan 31, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> I have not yet met an intelligent Trump voter.


As much as I despise her and believe nothing she says- Conway is certainly intelligent.
When she came on board the Trump Disaster Train I knew she was dangerous, but not stupid.
Many Nazis are also intelligent-
Therein lies that real danger
as well as in underestimating the resources of the Vile.

k

and just to keep ot- Calexit (though I don't like the Brit reference) is looking better every day


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## woodsdenis (Jan 31, 2017)

KEnK said:


> As much as I despise her and believe nothing she says- Conway is certainly intelligent.
> When she came on board the Trump Disaster Train I knew she was dangerous, but not stupid.
> Many Nazis are also intelligent-
> Therein lies that real danger
> ...






She is smart but be aware she is a hired mouthpiece , above vid when she worked for Cruz less than a year ago.


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## Soundhound (Jan 31, 2017)

I'm talking about the people convinced by Conway et al to vote for Trump. 

Plus check out the videos of her tearing trump down in 2016 before she was hired on. She's a vampire.


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## chimuelo (Jan 31, 2017)

More like the Coast-exit.
Northern, SoCal and Central Cali are not going to lose those farming subsidies, plus every one of the Trade Unions, LIUNA, AFL-CIO are all in for Trump.
Personally I would love such a competitive arrangement, it's healthy like protesting is.
I've seen some of the "data" and sure smells like those pollsters are getting paid to persuade once again.

Conway is the gal nobody saw coming.
Her husband was the only lawyer ever to force a President to settle out of court or face a jury and possible jail.
800,000 is nothing for the Clintons. They spend more than that on travel expenses every year.

But you could not have picked someone who had the Clintons figured out better than her.
Trump was all but washed up and she actually brought the white suburban women's vote from a low 30s up to 53%.
I actually admired her until the pro life crap started up.
Now I'm getting that come to Jesus moment feeling, which I have no issues with until I hear politicians wanting God in the White House.

There's a chance Silicon Valley could cover the 115,000,000,000 in Federal payouts, but stockholders might get a little nervous causing turmoil that could cause sell offs.
But maybe Saudis Qataris and UAE could help finance Cali.
As long as they don't want Sharia.
But Hollywood could convert to Islam and start doing movies of Abraham and Ishmael, Suleman, romancing the Ottomans, lots of possibilities.

I could visit my family at the Mosque in Yosemite....

Maybe yuze guys could learn to love God again, just a different one.
Me, I like the Olympians since mating nymphs wasn't frowned on.

Orale


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## Baron Greuner (Feb 1, 2017)

Haha! The Peoples Republic of California. Yeah right. 

Who the hell would buy all those Ferraris?


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## Udo (Feb 1, 2017)

Trump was apparently registered as a Democrat for 3 or 4 years from 2005 ...


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## chimuelo (Feb 1, 2017)

In New York he purchased Liberals for decades but was more like a Clinton.
Basically means you stand for poor people as you hang out with Wall Street and Goldman Sachs folks.
It's just the way things go in NY.
Trump was a Liberal favorite, newspapers and liberal media heralded the God King as a pillar of the community, praised his real estate adventures.
But became a target once he announced his birther (white racist) movement, and totally lost their composure as "journalists" once he became a candidate.
Wealthy Liberals he owned were summoned to various ground breaking ceremonies and weddings.
Chuck Shumer cried at Ivankas wedding cause he's a close friend of her husbands family and they donated to his campaign, so for an extra few hundred grand you get tears..


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## Soundhound (Feb 1, 2017)

Trump has no real interest in policy or government. He is interested in power and applause.


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## chimuelo (Feb 1, 2017)

Sure are lots of fine looking babes hanging around the White House these days.
Melania is holding down White House North in Manhattan, daughters n law babe has White House South in Palm Beach, and Ivanka White House DC.

I'm sure we will miss the celebs, rappers and Beyoncé, they were special days.
The House was hopping.
Maybe if Liberals win in 2020 we can bring back celebs.
Madonna and Rosie O. would be happening.
Be humping secret service agents, male and female, spitting on busts of Trump that were engraved into every corridor of the White House....

He wanted to make sure nobody could return him like Churchill, or other white racists who's cannot be found.
Seems they were thrown into a storage area, and nobody knows where.

Trump removed the Farrakhan, Sharpton, Obama, Soros and Holder statues, infuriating Liberal media.


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## TheUnfinished (Feb 1, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> Snowflake..?
> Is that Trumps or Fox News term?
> 
> First time I heard that.
> Almost as good as Girly men, which fits the other 2 Liberals that were in the video.



What is it about women that you consider to be so inferior that being compared to them constitutes an insult, exactly?


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## Soundhound (Feb 1, 2017)

Having Baron and Jimmy on ignore is like having the light switch thrown at opportune moments. Every now and then people are reacting to someone having vomited in the middle of the room, and there's no way of knowing with any precision what exactly was in the vomit! Though the stench itself remains of course...


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## chimuelo (Feb 1, 2017)

TheUnfinished said:


> What is it about women that you consider to be so inferior that being compared to them constitutes an insult, exactly?



Never really gave it much thought.
Just liked the way State Legislators freaked out when California's Governor called them girly men.

General Flynn just put Iran on notice for launching ballistic missiles breaking the treaty, again.
Liberals will organize and protest, calling for compassion and understanding....


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## chimuelo (Feb 1, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> Having Baron and Jimmy on ignore is like having the light switch thrown at opportune moments. Every now and then people are reacting to someone having vomited in the middle of the room, and there's no way of knowing with any precision what exactly was in the vomit! Though the stench itself remains of course...



Yeah but you know you still read it.

Maybe the forum could assist the offended by including an ignore for quotes, when the ignored are quoted...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 1, 2017)

I'd narrow Jon's list down. Most of them are white assholes, but what they all have in common is ignorance. And every single one of them knew that what they were doing was wrong when they voted for this sewage.

Also, I have to disagree with kENk about that pile of shit of a woman. How much intelligence does it take to change the subject and list off a barrage of stupid crap? That's not debating, it's just being a pile of shit. There are several kinds of intelligence, but to me being able to go on TV and tell despicable lies is not one of them.

I hate these people SO much. It's just disgusting.

And the Republicans, who are putting opportunism ahead of the survival of our country, are totally culpable. We're in a severe crisis.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 1, 2017)

In other words, the answer to Udo's question is Quite possibly not.


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 2, 2017)

JonFairhurst said:


> I realize that I lumped too many Trump supporters into the coward category. Let me fix that. As I see it, there are four types of supporters.
> 
> 1) Cowards. ("They want to kill us. Nuke them all!")
> 2) Ignorant. ("I don't follow politics, but I know that he's rich and famous.")
> ...



I'd argue there's another category of Selfish. "I want policies that support my issues, and I don't care what it takes to get them." As much as I disagree with the other side, at the very least I'd respect someone willing to come out and say "He's a horrible man but my issues are important enough to me that I'm willing to vote for him if it's the only way to get what I want on those issues". But I don't think I've ever heard that.


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## Soundhound (Feb 2, 2017)

This. Selfishness has over the years seemed to me a fairly reliable republican trait. Seems to have its roots in the reagan cowboy mythology of rugged invidiualism. it's selfishness masquerading as and rationalized by the idea of self reliance. unenlightened self interest.


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## robh (Feb 2, 2017)

Mike Connelly said:


> I'd argue there's another category of Selfish. "I want policies that support my issues, and I don't care what it takes to get them." As much as I disagree with the other side, at the very least I'd respect someone willing to come out and say "He's a horrible man but my issues are important enough to me that I'm willing to vote for him if it's the only way to get what I want on those issues". But I don't think I've ever heard that.


I have. Kind of.
The Trump supporters I know and know of have developed an enormous distaste and disillusionment for status quo politicians who do a lot of talking but deliver next to nothing. That's part of why they refused to vote for Clinton. (Even Obama said of her in the past that she'll say anything and change nothing.) It's pretty much as Chimuelo has said in the past - out with the old, in with the new (my paraphrase). People want results. Not empty promises. They'll overlook some terrible character issues to get results.

Rob


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 2, 2017)

The category of Selfish sums up the entire Republican agenda, and what they're doing now - which consists of nothing to save our country and everything to ruin it - proves that I've been absolutely right all along. People get mad at me for saying that whole party has become a cruel joke with zero intellectual backing for their cruel "ideas," but it's 100% true. The Republican party used to be the Party of No, now it's the Party of Destruction of Everything Good.

By comparison, Democrats provided healthcare and public investment in our economy when we had both houses and the presidency.

Rob, that's why I say that the one universal category of Txxxx voter is Ignorant. What you're saying is supreme ignorance (because everything he wants to do is against their interests and most of what Hillary proposed was in them), and "overlooking some terrible character issues" means voting for racism, misogyny, and all the rest of it. It's also arrogance: because I'm mad, I'll vote to break the country for everyone forever.

Yes, they really are white assholes and chumps. That's what's so upsetting: there are 63 million idiots in this country who got to vote for its destruction.


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## robh (Feb 2, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The category of Selfish sums up the entire Republican agenda, and what they're doing now - which consists of nothing to save our country and everything to ruin it - proves that I've been absolutely right all along. People get mad at me for saying that whole party has become a cruel joke with zero intellectual backing for their cruel "ideas," but it's 100% true. The Republican party used to be the Party of No, now it's the Party of Destruction of Everything Good.
> 
> By comparison, Democrats provided healthcare and public investment in our economy when we had both houses and the presidency.
> 
> ...


Nick,
It's very hard to listen to what you have to say when you stoop to name calling. Remember the discussion I had with Soundhound in another thread? - the clothes you're trying to make me wear (in this particular case, not so much me), or make republican voters wear don't necessarily fit. It is much more nuanced than how I expressed it. You should know that. That's what you claim whenever someone points out a particularly looney liberal. (I also wonder why in your eyes character means something for a Republican, but not for a Democrat - Bill Clinton for example.)
It smacks of arrogance when you assume that people who don't share your political views must be ignorant, unintelligent assholes. Not much room for a civil discussion. I can guarantee that won't win over those 63 million in the next election.


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## Soundhound (Feb 2, 2017)

There is nothing nuanced in people who voted for trump. they have been brainwashed by right wing propaganda. they do not know, and do not want to know anything that doesn't fit the selfish, and entirely self defeating false narrative that they have been spoonfed. these lies they have digested made them the perfect target for a demagogue such as trump. there is no nuance here, and to search for any is to rationalize fascism, which is disgusting and dangerous and to be called out at every turn.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 2, 2017)

Oh, I'm pulling punches with the name-calling I'm posting here. It's totally appropriate, and I truly don't care if you think I'm looney or arrogant. It so happens that my opinions are more nuanced than yours are, actually, but we're not talking about details.

The entire Republican party is off its fucking rocker right now, and those 63 million people are gone anyway. How can you win over someone that stupid? All we have is reason, and they're impervious to that.

There's no way to have a civil discussion with anyone who thinks that supporting Txxxx is a valid opinion, so what's the point?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 2, 2017)

What Soundhound says. This is beyond polite discussion, it's a fight for the survival of our democracy.

Yes, everyone I know is scared to death and furious. There are comparisons to Hitler that don't apply, but many that do.


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## woodsdenis (Feb 2, 2017)




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## robh (Feb 2, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Oh, I'm pulling punches with the name-calling I'm posting here. It's totally appropriate, and I truly don't care if you think I'm looney or arrogant. It so happens that my opinions are more nuanced than yours are, actually, but we're not talking about details.
> 
> The entire Republican party is off its fucking rocker right now, and those 63 million people are gone anyway. How can you win over someone that stupid? All we have is reason, and they're impervious to that.
> 
> There's no way to have a civil discussion with anyone who thinks that supporting Txxxx is a valid opinion, so what's the point?


I didn't call you looney, nor do I think it. Arrogant? Obviously!  Actually, no. I won't even say that. You have strong opinions and convictions and aren't afraid to say so. Nothing wrong with that.
Are you assuming I support Txxxx? I actually don't.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 2, 2017)

No, I didn't think you supported him, Rob. You just give his voters far more credit than they deserve, in my opinion. The guy doesn't just have personality issues, he has blatant personality disorders.

Anyway, I'm not arrogant, I'm just way smarter and better than everyone else.


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 2, 2017)

It is simplistic and dangerous to make such judgement on 63 million people. Yes, Trump has all hallmarks of rather severe personality disorder, but look around in the corporate and finance world, take another look into global politics, positions of power are often held by people with personality disorders, it is a major problem. 

As for voters, I too can not find any good reason towards a vote for Trump, but people who did are not all scumbags. I would guess that many are somewhat undereducated on matters, others simply casted a protest vote without any deeper consideration for the possible consequences, then of course, there are those who fully support his fascist views and actions, but no way they constitute 63 million. 

I hope that many people consider options to get rid of this bunch of criminals and fascists asap. From organised civil disobedience to impeachment process, all things must be considered beore too much is damaged.


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## Baron Greuner (Feb 3, 2017)

I think President Trump would look as if he had a personality disorder.

Especially to people who are rather severe under achieving losers. That I can understand but have trouble having any sympathy with.


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 3, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> There is nothing nuanced in people who voted for trump. they have been brainwashed by right wing propaganda. they do not know, and do not want to know anything that doesn't fit the selfish, and entirely self defeating false narrative that they have been spoonfed. these lies they have digested made them the perfect target for a demagogue such as trump. there is no nuance here, and to search for any is to rationalize fascism, which is disgusting and dangerous and to be called out at every turn.



Just this morning I read a comment from someone thankful for twitter because it means he can just read everything DT says and never read the news again. Heaven help us.


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 3, 2017)

Baron Greuner said:


> I think President Trump would look as if he had a personality disorder.
> 
> Especially to people who are rather severe under achieving losers. That I can understand but have trouble having any sympathy with.



You can spin that both ways. Someone may actually be mentally ill, but of course if supporters have sufficiently drank the Kool-Aid, they'll convince themselves that he seems totally fine.


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## robh (Feb 3, 2017)

I found this an interesting perspective.


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## Soundhound (Feb 3, 2017)

Russell Brand is great. I agree with him wholeheartedly and hope very much that the current travesty results in a real revaluation among democrats to come back in 2018 with a progressive agenda and candidates. 

What I think he's not addressing though is the mindset that the right wing media has fostered in America takes the inequities of the system and proposes a far worse system, which has now gained power. When that has happened previously the result hasn't been an overall populist awakening and rejection of autocracy, the result has been war and economic devastation. Even Bernie sanders doesn't admit that the manufacturing jobs in the u.s. are never coming back, that they were lost to fundamental changes in the economy (globalism, automation etc) and the solutions to that have to deal with those changes.


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## robh (Feb 3, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> Russell Brand is great. I agree with him wholeheartedly and hope very much that the current travesty results in a real revaluation among democrats to come back in 2018 with a progressive agenda and candidates.
> 
> What I think he's not addressing though is the mindset that the right wing media has fostered in America takes the inequities of the system and proposes a far worse system, which has now gained power. When that has happened previously the result hasn't been an overall populist awakening and rejection of autocracy, the result has been war and economic devastation. Even Bernie sanders doesn't admit that the manufacturing jobs in the u.s. are never coming back, that they were lost to fundamental changes in the economy (globalism, automation etc) and the solutions to that have to deal with those changes.


I see a bit of a parallel with what Russel said and what Chimuelo has been saying - without using the word "sheep."


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## chimuelo (Feb 3, 2017)

Compromise was what worked great for voters.
Now it's a bunch Lawyers all wanting the big "Win" that never happens.

For example the recent travel restrictions can be settled in Congress.
Otherwise we have to listen to singing and watch grown men cry.
Let's give these bums something to do, I'm tired of hearing them.

Then there's the immigrant "crisis."
Compromise...Trump married an immigrant so he knows what's up.

All women without children and under 35 get in, just keep out the men.
Immigrants wanting citizenship will treat you like a King.

I speak from experience.
No experience with Eastern Europeans, North Africans or middle easterners.
But Asian babes are the best...
I actually have to tell my sweetie, please let me up, I gotta take a leak...


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## Soundhound (Feb 3, 2017)

It's not a subtle parallel, it's the same thing. Jimmy's shtick is always about the left and right being the same thing, that the system is fundamentally corrupt and any way it can be gotten rid of is worth the ensuing problems.

While I agree that there are deep equities built in the system and that it needs to be changed, ignoring the differences between the left and the right in today's politics is to turn a blind eye to the fascism that is gaining power currently. Jimmy rails against Elizabeth Warren because she makes six figures at a university, a completely disingenuous, argument. When was the last time a republican took on the oil industry as Warren does here on the Senate floor? I'll save you some research time: never.


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## Baron Greuner (Feb 3, 2017)

Sooooo.... according to Russell Brand, President Trump has said 'outlandish and offensive things'



Sky News continue their false narrative and wet and piss themselves over Brexit and now President Trump. They brought out someone called Ian Dunt last night on their so-called What the Papers Say and this guy is lucky.
He is one syllable away from having a much more appropriate name.

The bollocks continues apace.


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## chimuelo (Feb 3, 2017)

Warren games her supporters and the system, I would too if somebody bribed me for giving speeches.
I think she is symbolic, but helpful in her Cush University and Senate job.

But if she has Presidential aspirations she must have become emboldened from the likes on her Facebook page.
Besides that voice is so annoying.
Sounds like a female Jimmy Stewart impersonator.


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## Flaneurette (Feb 3, 2017)

By nature I am an optimist. And I think it is only fair to give someone the benefit of the doubt. I thought the same about any president for that matter. I think he has the worst job in the world... I mean, who wants to be in charge of a runaway truck...?


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## Baron Greuner (Feb 3, 2017)

Is Wilders going to win the Dutch election, or will it be a coalition, with no clear winner?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 3, 2017)

G.R.:



> It is simplistic and dangerous to make such judgement on 63 million people



Is there a word for when danger becomes reality, no longer just potential? That's where we are.

You may find it simplistic, but it's absolutely true: we have 63 million ignorant fools in this country, and they voted in a disgusting piece of shit.

But Txxxx is just the unmasked, hideous face of the real Republican party. They are simply cruel; there's no intellectual backing for what these assholes are doing. Today they're starting to undo the Dodd-Frank financial regulations. Get ready for another crash in a few years - while their rich piggy donors walk away even richer.

That assumes we survive this, and it looks to me like Bannon really wants to get us into wars.


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## Flaneurette (Feb 3, 2017)

Baron: Possibly. But I think no-one wants to work with him and form a coalition. Which means that there have to be new elections. The great thing about having more than two parties ruling together is a more accurate representation of democracy. Here in the Netherlands we do exactly that.


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## Baron Greuner (Feb 3, 2017)

We had a coalition here from 2010 to 2015 and it was an unmitigated disaster. That's why we wound up voting to leave Europe.
Here, we expect any prime minister to call another election when a coalition looks like being forced, but we had a spineless closet liberal at the helm at the time and of course, at the end if it all, he was dispatched in a nanno second.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 3, 2017)

I think this marks the day that the Republicans drop even the pretense of having intellectual backing for their cruel policies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/03/if-you-want-to-kill-the-solid-jobs-recovery-repeal-dodd-frank/?utm_term=.28bd45d2e900


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 4, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> we have 63 million ignorant fools in this country



I have friends that are Republicans. None of them fits in the box you provide here. They are reasonable, considerate, and well while we disagree on many aspects, fwiw, not one of them supported Trump.

I think that Trump and his shower of useless Gombeens need to be removed from power asap.

If I would know how to create a viral twitter, or whatever that is called, I would propose the following:

Trump has, allegedly, 23 million followers, growing steadily with around 135k per day. I would propose a global Trump ban on a dedicated timeframe. Ask twitteratis to block Trump for 7 days, to show him what they think of his Presidency.


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## chimuelo (Feb 4, 2017)

I look forward to Lady GaGa and the NFL Super Bowl.
I hear the commercials and halftime show are awesome.
Friends working there said 28 Tractor Trailers worth of props and gear.

Come celebrate the demise of political correctness....
I hope GaGa disses Trump so we can keep this going.
Awesome seeing free speech is alive and well.


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## woodsdenis (Feb 4, 2017)




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## Soundhound (Feb 4, 2017)

Republicans have always stolen from the working class and worked for the rich. It's what they do. Their genius was convincing the working class in the 80s that their policies would help working people. (trickle down) etc. When that lie was proven false to all but the national enquirer reading ignorants, republicans added back the old standbys of racism and xenophobia. Worked like a charm, electing Bush. The false patriotism and fear made Trump possible. Republican politics created Trump, they have to be made to own him. You broke it, you bought it.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> I think this marks the day that the Republicans drop even the pretense of having intellectual backing for their cruel policies.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/03/if-you-want-to-kill-the-solid-jobs-recovery-repeal-dodd-frank/?utm_term=.28bd45d2e900


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 4, 2017)

Right, and they've always managed to sell their harmful policies with some ridiculous argument - trickle-down from Job Creators, lazy Mexican people are taking your money, etc.

But millions of people lost their houses and life savings because Wall St. ran amok! Of course Txxxx is saying that companies are having a hard time getting loans, but that's a blatant lie easily refuted by iron-clad evidence in three seconds. And the other part, allowing financial advisors to rip people off they don't have fiduciary responsibility to the clients who pay them?!

As I said, they're now just destroying the country without even pretending to have a justification.


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## JonFairhurst (Feb 4, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What Soundhound says. This is beyond polite discussion, it's a fight for the survival of our democracy.
> 
> Yes, everyone I know is scared to death and furious. There are comparisons to Hitler that don't apply, but many that do.



Nick, this is what I was talking about above. Respect is a pillar of ethics. If you feel scared to death, one can allow that fear to push them to act unethically.

I think that it's ethical to insult Txxxx. He is clearly unethical and we need to point that out forcefully.

Where I believe that you cross the line is when you generalize all Republicans or all Trump voters and insult them. Generalizing and degrading large groups of people is bigotry. It doesn't help. Call out individuals, not groups.

Don't think that ethics means that we need to be nicey-nicey. As one knows, freedom of speech doesn't allow one to yell "fire" in a theater. It doesn't shield people from the consequences of saying destructive things. In other words, yes, punch a Nazi.

Here's an ethical dilemma: You are one of ten on a lifeboat. One guy claims the right to all the water and wants us to push the Muslims overboard. Next it's the Blacks, then the Mexicans, then the Jews. Pretty soon there aren't enough people to fight him. So is it ethical to push the asshole overboard and pop him on the head with the oar? Hell yeah. Save nine people, not one.

Act ethically. And be bold about it.


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## Soundhound (Feb 4, 2017)

I think calling out the right, and the democrats who have gone along with them, on corruption and immoral policies is doing just that. The democrats have for decades been unable and/or unwilling to come right out and say what the right has been doing. It's time to call a spade a spade. It's way past time, the hope has to be that indeed it's not too late.


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 5, 2017)

JonFairhurst said:


> Here's an ethical dilemma: You are one of ten on a lifeboat. One guy claims the right to all the water and wants us to push the Muslims overboard. Next it's the Blacks, then the Mexicans, then the Jews. Pretty soon there aren't enough people to fight him. So is it ethical to push the asshole overboard and pop him on the head with the oar? Hell yeah. Save nine people, not one.
> 
> Act ethically. And be bold about it.



That's interesting, and I would take a stand against such ethics derived logic. 

How then would you describe "your" act of murder? A dirty hands problem? Inescapable moral wrongdoing? 

Yeah, act ethically! Hence I'd say restrain the guy for the rest of the journey. Simpleton.


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## chimuelo (Feb 5, 2017)

The easy way out is always using race, religion, gender, wealth, the categories politicians have used on the Sheep for decades.
Then campaign time comes your craft your speech at the group you're addressing, etc.

The beauty of peaceful protest is when it's coordinated internationally.
Thank Trump for being a hard ass, he's uniting people peacefully.

Guess what Iranian, Chinese, Russian and North Korean media shows everyone?
Black Lives Matter riots, Berkeley burning, etc.
When more people join in peaceful the world sees democracy in action.
They wish they could protest like that.

As it stands right now if Trump takes the stable slow growth economy President Obama left him and makes it boom, none of the above will matter much. That's the reality the left had better face up to. So until that happens the weekly weekend protest MUST be peaceful, must show the world what a real democracy means.

Every weekend my Tesla driving sister n law and her friends go to this little town square, as produce from farmers draws a big crowd, so exposure is built in.
She hates Trump, and is a pro life Conservative who supports adoption by funding local charities.
Hard lefties don't like her group, but are foolish to be so non inclusive when that's what they preach.
If Trump gets smacked down by anyone it will be American women.
If the left isn't smart enough to practice what it preaches and won't allow differing opinions for the same purpose they are only hurting themselves.

Trump will win the economic argument, Shumer and Sanders will help him, the RNC has to go along and fund the infrastructure.
He will follow with taxes, and not a repeal, but repair law, and solidify millions of white, brown, black, Asian and Indian racists.

In 2018 what will be the Liberal message?
Inclusivity and diversity?
Good luck with that.

Hope the U.K. German and other EU women keep Trumps feet to the fire.
They are the only true message of defiance right now.
In 2018 the global economy is going to be doing much better.
Nations with sanctions won't.
But guess who will get the credit......Those Dumb Uneducated White Supremacists in the White House.

I got a 20 dollar gentlemens bet that Gaga attacks Trump and gives women the strength to continue showing their displeasure with Trump.
18 years ago women were too disunited to take a stand for Lewinsky.
It's a whole new ball game now.
I think GaGa knows this, and is going to risk being booed and taking a local diss, but hundreds of millions are watching.
She won't get another chance.

Any takers?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 5, 2017)

Jon:



> Where I believe that you cross the line is when you generalize all Republicans or all Trump voters and insult them. Generalizing and degrading large groups of people is bigotry. It doesn't help. Call out individuals, not groups



Every Republican politician and every single Txxxx voter is a disgrace. If ignorance of a law is no excuse, ignorance when you vote isn't either.

I call out Republican politicians as a group for allowing this to happen (never mind that they're on the wrong side of every single issue; this just proves what I've been saying all along: they are the biggest problem facing our country).

It's also no generalization, just an observation, when I call out every Txxxx voter. Every single one knew he's a racist pig - and the rest of it - yet they voted to support that willfully and with premeditation. They are all complicit in a tragedy far worse than any crime committed in our history since the Civil War. Yes they only committed 1/63 millionth of the crime, but it is an offense against our Constitution.

Where are the Txxxx voters stepping forward and acknowledging that he or she made a terrible mistake? That would be a different story. Instead I see my 12-year-old biracial nephew called a nigger because of all the white assholes who encouraged this crap to be unleashed.

And you call that bigotry on my part? Whether my extreme outrage is constructive is another matter, but I'm sure not going to bury it, nor am I going to whitewash what these people have done to ruin everything I care about.


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## chimuelo (Feb 5, 2017)

Nick went to the Liberal Federal free schools where white shaming and guilt are instilled.

For generations Europeans were shamed for crimes they didn't commit.
Our elites thought maybe they could get away with that here but they were wrong.
Yet the indoctrination was so thorough decades later the guilty whites use it for a reason wealthy white liberals fail.
They analyze the losses, it can't be the money, they had billions, can't be their ideas, they're really smart highly educated folks.......hmmm......ah yeah, it was racism...


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## Soundhound (Feb 5, 2017)

The danger when considering what Trump is doing to the country is not in lumping all Trump voters together, it is in not recognizing the dangerous element he is empowering. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...e-remove-anti-semitic-graffiti-subway-n716961


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## chimuelo (Feb 5, 2017)

Are Liberals spray painting swastikas again?
THP caught the Liberals from Delaware hitting bridges over I-24 in Nashville last summer.
Guess they're still getting money from the Liberal Fossil Fuel Billionaire.
But it's an NBC link.
Well the election is over, maybe they got tired of lying.
NOT.....


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 5, 2017)

Sort of silly, Chim, considering that this obscene sewage is blatantly trying to stage a coup of our country.

But this is something everyone should be watching. Yes, paid agitators are a standard fascist technique the world over:

http://www.newsweek.com/robert-reich-who-sent-thugs-berkeley-552577

We all have to capture these monstrous criminals on cellphone video at every demonstration we go to. And I'll be going to a lot of them.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 5, 2017)

And by the way, you might want to actually conjure up a mental picture of reality before posting ridiculous crap about European white liberal guilt and all that.

You have this weird idea that everyone who's done well got there by screwing people, and liberals only pretend to care about other people to assuage their guilt.

Maybe that says more about you?

If you knew anything about my ancestors, you'd realize how far from reality your comment is.


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## chimuelo (Feb 5, 2017)

In free school history and reality aren't pre requisites.
Gender awareness and climate change are valued more than math.
My kids homework was a joke once we couldn't afford private school anymore.
It use to be based on income, but Liberal Unions charge tax payers more and Catholic Charities loses funding. 

But in white racist catholic schools they let us brown skinned racists attend.
History was taught, geography, math, science and music.
We learned the Marshal Plan, how it was designed to provide protection for Europe as it rebuilt, and as it was an experiment in socialism, and it worked since they were dedicated to education and success. 

Before that wars, kings and queens were as normal as weekend picnics.
But my German cousins are in their 40s my Uncle in his 70s, a racist GI.
His wife is German and often spoke about the extra circular classes teaching shaming.
Can't remember the German word but I remember the same crap as I went to public for 2 years to graduate.

Black kids were laughing making jokes white kids sat quietly.
Teachers would read through the books saying blacks couldn't use white rest rooms, my buddy would say, hey we had our own restrooms.
Then teacher would say blacks had to sit on the back of the bus, my buddy says yeah, furthest from the crash..
It was a joke to us brown skinned racists or blacks. But the little white kids were shamed.

I can see years later those Ben Afleck types are conflicted.
My Uncle actually married my Aunt as she was orphaned and times for German women were tough as many men never came back. War sucks.
But white kids in America sat with black kids, played together.
Guess there weren't lots of Jewish guys in German schools in the 50s and 60s but I'm sure re education was certainly a priority.

In China they teach their kids to hate Japanese, in Palestine they teach them to hate Jews.
N.Koreans are taught to hate America, at least shaming is preferred here instead of hatred. But doesn't mean you need to carry your guilt around after graduation.
Unless of course like Ben Afleck you find out on a TV Show that your ancestors owned slaves.

You can't change and many others have the same yoke around their neck.
Too bad, it clouds perspective.
Glad I ain't a guilty white Liberal.

I'd be seeing Klansmen in my soup...


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 6, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Whether my extreme outrage is constructive is another matter, but I'm sure not going to bury it, nor am I going to whitewash what these people have done to ruin everything I care about.



I believe people need to educate themselves about the banksters heist, a global heist, that is still ongoing since 2008 and linked increase in warmongering. 

It would not be enough to remove the fascists, Goldman Sachs banksters and that Psychopath, but it would be a first step towards a new global deal, perhaps.


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 6, 2017)

btw. as for the original question: Will TRUMPOSIS lead to the demise of the USA?

It is, beyond any doubts, a loud and clear "Yes!". Now, just develop that thought a little further...

The winner of that outcome is... China.

One way to start a war with China is to install Trump, a bunch of fascist dimwits, and have some of the war beneficiaries sit in the more important chairs.

That already happened!

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/02/02/blundering-into-a-war-with-china/

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/02/the-coming-war-on-china/


....next....


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## KEnK (Feb 6, 2017)

G.R. Baumann said:


> Will TRUMPOSIS lead to the demise of the USA?
> 
> It is, beyond any doubts, a loud and clear "Yes!". Now, just develop that thought a little further...


Although there is little reason for optimism,
The Vile Pig is already marginalizing himself- even among the most extreme right of the GOP (sans Breitbart Nazis).
McConnell finally came out against Trump's equating Putin's murdering of journalists, invasions of neighbor states, etc.
w/ US actions.

He is well on the way towards isolating himself completely.
It's only a matter of time before he becomes a completely ineffectual figure head, ignored until impeached.
So- no, although this mess is serious, it has spurred a movement against the Anti-American Idiocy of the Right.
The "US" will most likely recover, though I myself will vote for an Independent California.

k


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## chimuelo (Feb 6, 2017)

Good luck with your safe space..


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 6, 2017)

Words from the Chim anus:



> In free school history and reality aren't pre requisites.
> Gender awareness and climate change are valued more than math



Right, just like all Latin people wear sombreros with dingle balls.


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## KEnK (Feb 6, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> Good luck with your safe space..


Not about a "safe space"-
It's about correcting an error made by the White Racist Demagogue Lincoln more than 150 years ago.
Of course think how much "safer" the Trailer Park Nation will feel if California takes it's Multi Ethnic Sexual Racism out of the US political equation-
Much better for those nice White Racists in Kansas, don't you think?
k


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## chimuelo (Feb 6, 2017)

Your obviously distraught from the failure of your wealthy representatives.
When they fail you again in their next uptopian paradise, follow other Californians over to Nevada.
We'll hook you up, but better learn Espanol since your free school taught you the wrong shit.

Fair warning though, we don't have black neighborhoods, or trailer parks like your family lives in.
Poor folks live right around the corner from people with million dollar homes.

We're actually progressive, not fake Liberal, or fake progressive.
Your police state and segregated neighborhoods are proof of wealthy white Liberal failure.
Enjoy that safe space, but come and hang with us brown skinned racists.

Inclusivity is a girly man term, we say Mi Casa En su casa pinche wedo........


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## woodsdenis (Feb 6, 2017)

America will be destroyed by Trump and its already happening in the eyes of the rest of the World. When the Trumpists cry " America first", that may be true, but more importantly we don't need you !!!! China/Pacific Rim is where we get our investment from. We don't buy your substandard electronics or cars and not will eat your food (most of it doesn't come up to EU health standards ). Your first great arse licker, the Brit PM won't be able to do any trade deal with the US for at least 2 years and the rest of us will bide our time while the US goes down the tubes.

Be isolationist all you want and see where it gets you. A terrible shame, as all that is brilliant, inventive and inspiring about the States is being wiped away into a cesspit of shit of your own making.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/china-solar-energy/

Renewable energy is the future (follow the Chinese) and the US looks backs wards and builds Oil pipelines. What he is doing to the US is criminal and mark my words you will lose a trade war with China bigly (bit of humour there) and the rest of us know who to follow.


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## chimuelo (Feb 6, 2017)

I'd be more worried about the "Make France Great Again" folks.
Girly men need to stop La Penne and the Mussolini wannabe.
If they succeed there build one of those Liberal coalitions of 62 nations.
They work really good I heard.
Still wondering what they did, but fake news said it succeeded.

I think your hairs on fire, let me send you some hairspray, the flammable kind...


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 7, 2017)

KEnK said:


> It's only a matter of time before he becomes a completely ineffectual figure head, ignored until impeached.



Well, there was a chance to start that process, as described by a Law Professor here:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2841306

In a very strange way, civil proceedings over Trumo University fraud were..."settled".

Hence, I don't think that he will be impeached. House of Representatives and the Senate are controlled by the Republicans. Removal of an American president chosen by the citizenry, is unprecedented. As per constitution, only treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

But let's say Caligula Trump was impeached and convicted by the Senate. VP Mike Pence would immediately take the oath of office and become President. 

Great prospects. LOL


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 7, 2017)

Icelanders removed entire Government. I don't think there is a proceedure for such in the US, other than a constitutional convention to enable such removal. 

Right? Wrong?


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 7, 2017)

Even the EU has proceedings to get rid of entire Commission. The Jaques Santer Commission for example.


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## rayinstirling (Feb 7, 2017)

G.R. Baumann said:


> Icelanders removed entire Government. I don't think there is a proceedure for such in the US, other than a constitutional convention to enable such removal.
> 
> Right? Wrong?


You can only do that in a community type society. This is where big is not better because the power gets further away from the ground where most folks live.
Politics becomes regardless of intention 90% career 10% if your lucky, what folks voted for. Why would we expect it to be any other way?

It reminds me a bit of a visit to Ireland I made some years ago where while watching the early evening news on TV and a discussion on the appointment of a new Minister of Justice another politician remarked "I don't understand this decision as the gentleman getting the position is the best man for the job". Says it all.


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## Flaneurette (Feb 7, 2017)

There is little dignity these days... it seems everything is gearing up for chaos and destruction.

I've seen this interview with Vangelis, one of my childhood heroes. He raises some interesting points about music and beauty, and how much we seem to invest in chaos.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 7, 2017)

G.M., that's a feature of a parliamentary system, or at least theirs. They also did the right thing after the financial crisis, simply getting rid of the parasites.

But it's much easier in a community of 150,000 people than a country with over 300 million, 63 million of whom are ignorant assholes.


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## pixel (Feb 8, 2017)

rayinstirling said:


> You can only do that in a community type society. This is where big is not better because the power gets further away from the ground where most folks live.


This is why govt, media and many other organisations play 'divide and conquer'. Divided society = weak society. And all what I see is more and more divided societies. Even here people are ready to fight for their fav political party because they treat it like a religion.


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## rayinstirling (Feb 8, 2017)

pixel said:


> This is why govt, media and many other organisations play 'divide and conquer'. Divided society = weak society. And all what I see is more and more divided societies. Even here people are ready to fight for their fav political party because they treat it like a religion.


So, do you think there is any possibility we can all hold hands and sing as one in this world "Whitacre" style or should we accept that clannish behaviour is inbuilt in out gut and no one will ever control that need?


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## pixel (Feb 8, 2017)

rayinstirling said:


> So, do you think there is any possibility we can all hold hands and sing as one in this world "Whitacre" style or should we accept that clannish behaviour is inbuilt in out gut and no one will ever control that need?


It's impossible to answer this question. Like we can see, Iceland and Romania can do it but I'm rather sceptic when it's about big countries which are already divided to fractions and where people see politicians as almighty gods


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 8, 2017)

Pixel, the essential political disagreement in the US has always been over the role of government. We don't all see politicians as almighty gods. On the contrary.

And I agree about the divide and conquer strategy, but you make it sound like both parties are equivalent when you say people fight for their party like a religion. That's not the case at all!

The Republicans just railroaded in a Secretary of Education who bought her seat! She has the qualifications of a dog turd.

We're divided because the Republican party changed from the party of Lincoln into the party of craven monsters.


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## chimuelo (Feb 8, 2017)

She could care less about knowing how a failed system works.
Her job is is help young blacks and hispanics left behind by your wealthy whites in their Great Society neighborhoods.
I hope she does good.
Actually hope minorities start supporting winners instead of losers.
California Representative Quacksine Waters thinks Putin invaded Korea....

An obvious graduate from failed Liberal schools in the greater LA area.


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## AlexRuger (Feb 8, 2017)

Chim, would you mind laying out how you think things should be, i.e. your idea of how best a government should be organized, should function, its role in the lives of citizens, etc? I legitimately can't tell where you lay on the political spectrum. 

No disrespect intended, just looking for some context. You use a lot of GOP buzzwords (losers/winners, elites, etc) but then talk about how you're a "real progressive." Some clear explanation might mitigate some tensions and potential misunderstandings.


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## JonFairhurst (Feb 8, 2017)

Alex, have you ever been walking in a large city when a red light stops you next to the crazy guy on the street corner? You can ask him questions but don't expect a meaningful response.


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## Soundhound (Feb 8, 2017)

AlexRuger said:


> Chim, would you mind laying out how you think things should be, i.e. your idea of how best a government should be organized, should function, its role in the lives of citizens, etc? I legitimately can't tell where you lay on the political spectrum.
> 
> No disrespect intended, just looking for some context. You use a lot of GOP buzzwords (losers/winners, elites, etc) but then talk about how you're a "real progressive." Some clear explanation might mitigate some tensions and potential misunderstandings.


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## chimuelo (Feb 8, 2017)

I'm not on a spectrum.
These 2 "party's" are basically law firms representing clients.
Which isn't us.
Their clients give them retainers and expect an ROI in return.

Real progressives? Look at Nevada. Corporations cover public pensions salaries leaving its citizens alone so they can prosper.
Big Liberal fake progressives States smack down citizens for funds, let corporations get tax breaks in exchange for campaign donations.

Conservative clowns claim no taxes necessary and bring you Kansas.

Why do people become Firefighters, teachers or cops?
It's called public service, they aren't there for the money.

Rather have them as leaders than these shake down artists and faculty lounge Law stars.

Get the money out of politics, the leeches will attach themselves to another host elsewhere.

And hopefully those who worship them can crawl into the next hole with them.
They're losers too, keep them all together so they leave the rest of us alone.


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## pixel (Feb 8, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> And I agree about the divide and conquer strategy, but you make it sound like both parties are equivalent when you say people fight for their party like a religion. That's not the case at all!


No. I don't mean that. You have people like this on all sides but it's not true that 100% of one group is like that or it's not at all. It's not about USA only. I have friends and family in few different countries. Many of them 'believe' in many different political views. I have right-wing friends and left-wing too. 
I see a lot of propaganda and fake news (even most idiotic and cheap with screaming headlines) posted by 'fans' of every political party known in western civilization. 
Don't understand me wrong, my personal views about world and politics are closer to left-wing but I'm not going to play this silly game and I'll not call group of few million people as 'retards' or anything like this. No no. If I go that way then what's next? I will call Muslims terrorists because politicians persuade/trick me to think that way? 

Does anyone read book Peter Watts - Echopraxia? There is a good fragment about politics and psychology. People are suspicious when they read news against their point of view but if news are about something that they believe in/support then they are easy to manipulate because they're not suspicious when information support their point of view. I saw not once not twice when left-wingers uploading news from right-wing fake news website because 'article' support their point of view and they don't care that they wrote earlier so many times that it's fake-news website because most of their articles support right-wing point of view. It works in both ways. I'm just watching this as passive observer
But... who cares? Soon Ghost In The Shell in cinemas so we can go and watch our near dark future on the screen


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## pixel (Feb 8, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> These 2 "party's" are basically law firms representing clients.
> *Which isn't us*.



Yes!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 8, 2017)

What were the fake news stories, pixel?

I'm just happy that the real US news is finally doing its job and reporting what's going on without trying to be "centrist" like they did until the election - and I mean like they've been doing for years, not just this election.

Also, what you're saying about the psychology of people not believing things they don't want to believe... well, you're talking about the unwashed masses. People who read and think aren't that easily swayed.


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## AlexRuger (Feb 8, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> I'm not on a spectrum.
> These 2 "party's" are basically law firms representing clients.
> Which isn't us.
> Their clients give them retainers and expect an ROI in return.
> ...



So, would you say your bottom line is: government by the people, for the people, in a pretty literal sense? I.e. firefighters, teachers, cops, and politicians all on the same "level" in terms of pay?


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## Soundhound (Feb 8, 2017)

Fake news on the left and on the right are not comparable in any way shape or form. The left sometimes exaggerates, and the fringes come up with inaccuracies. The right has been telling a false narrative for a generation now. Fox News, right wing radio and in the last ten years online blogs have been scaring the bejesus out of their audience to win ratings and elect law and order, war mongering ideologues. This terrified audience was made susceptible to a demagogue, and they found one in Trump. He is not an aberration for the right wing, he is the inevitable and logical result of their lies.


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 8, 2017)

Well well, Brian Krzanich appears together with the great orange one, and before you know it there is something rumored about a waiver concerning conflict minerals from Congo etc.

I wonder how much more damage this President will achieve in the shortest amount of time. I would guess it's something for the Guiness book.

Jeff Sessions is the new AG. I never heard about that chap before, but it seems he is another racist septuagenerian white supremacist.

You know what? I am not a US citizen. I was not born there. I lived there for some years, mostly with Native Americans. Sadly, now there is "Standing Rock", again, you could say....

It is about time to remember, hence I listened to that historical document again, and it may be worth your time too. I would recommend it.

Source:
AU, University of Alabama (University, AL)

Courtesy of Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute, Stanford University

*@ 23m32s!* "We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was *legal*..."

http://okra.stanford.edu/media/audio/630416001.mp3


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## chimuelo (Feb 9, 2017)

AlexRuger said:


> So, would you say your bottom line is: government by the people, for the people, in a pretty literal sense? I.e. firefighters, teachers, cops, and politicians all on the same "level" in terms of pay?



Not necessarily, but lobbying ban is a great start.
Citizens united and public union Liberal corruption must cease.
No bonuses for unaccountable federal employees.
No pension spiking.
Taking the 5th forfeits all pay during investigation.
Rioting Liberals arrested, and their investors pay for for cities, colleges destroyed.
Extra salaries forbidden by businesses or universities.

Basically make it impossible to prosper from poverty or legislation passed.
That would get rid of at least half of the federal fuck feast.


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## pixel (Feb 9, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What were the fake news stories, pixel?


You have thousands of websites with loud headlines, stock photo not related with the event and 3 sentences inside about something shocking without any links or anything to support if it's true or not where author (and website) is someone totally unknown. For obvious example from time to time I see fake news like about Muslim guy who raped child in Russia in city which is not even in Russia and he was murdered by crowd but people don't give a f* to check that city is in different country and picture showing murder scene is taken from c-class movie. So called 'alternative media' which are really... alternative reality like trip on PCP  I see both left and right-wingers who post this crap.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> People who read and think aren't that easily swayed.


You can trick anyone even very clever people. Above I mentioned the lowest level of fake news but with more advanced techniques it is possible to trick anyone even very clever people. But it demand deeper and long-term work to do this. Look how long it took to promote slogan 'polish death camps' instead of 'german death camps'. If adult people believe in fake news then they can teach their children that it's true and real stories. After years of such 'programming' these kids will have more problems to recognize that their believes about world are the wrong one. 
Actually to confess that someone was wrong by whole life is one of the hardest things to do for human. 

Manipulation techniques is a good long topic for all night brainstorm in company of few folks and scotch


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## JonFairhurst (Feb 9, 2017)

There was a guy making fake news who claims that he started doing so to show how ridiculous the right wing claims were. Apparently, they didn't get the sarcasm as the wild, made up stories got posted over and over on Facebook and the guy cashed in on ads. He tried making left wing fake news, and it was a commercial fail.

So while left wing fake news exists, does it get reach? Or is it just an attempt to make money that doesn't quite fly?

In politics, everybody spins things to put stuff in the best light. One side says that an event was a "conflict" while the other calls it a "dialog." Big deal. 

Karl Rove did the big lie. Saddam had WMDs. He was building missiles with aluminum tubes. He was going to attack us. Mushroom clouds... And they did all this to increase military contracts with their buddies.

I don't recall that kind of BS from Obama.

Now we get alternative facts and judges who follow law are called traitors. Crazy land.

The thing is, right and left wing audiences respond differently. The left can do comedy shows. We get irony and sarcasm because we understand the difference between reality and fantasy. The right wing has no successful comedy shows. On the other hand, the right can do rant shows and get big followings. The angrier and more outlandish the better. Who needs truth when we can get that emotional fix and a rush of adrenaline? The left tried that approach with Air America and it just didn't catch on.

So no, the two sides are not equivalent. And the fake news - and the resonance with it - are not the same.

Hell, just look at the difference between the Benghazi and Yemen coverage. Benghazi had traction for a year. But if you criticize the Yemen raid, you are disrespecting a fallen soldier. Criticism silenced. 

The Yemen story doesn't make for good comedy.


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## Soundhound (Feb 9, 2017)

This. You can count the good right wing comedians on one hand, even if you have had three fingers blown off. Actually coming up with that amount would be a challenge.

I can't think of one...


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## AlexRuger (Feb 9, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> Not necessarily, but lobbying ban is a great start.
> Citizens united and public union Liberal corruption must cease.
> No bonuses for unaccountable federal employees.
> No pension spiking.
> ...


Thanks man, the clarification is much appreciated.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 9, 2017)

pixel, what you're saying is either true or not true or both or neither or sometimes or never or always.

It's sort of like talking about people who dry their hands on a dog instead of a towel. Okay, but... ?


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## chimuelo (Feb 9, 2017)

Anyone with a class in journalism understands the purpose of making your story greater than the other guy commenting on the same story.
Bias is normal, the omission of facts or exaggerating like Brian Jennings does, or Katie Curic do is what they learned in College.

Never had a journalism class but always take stories I heard and liked, then made myself the Main character.
Folks here actually think I play Piano and synths, so it works really well with a gullible audience.

Watching every Liberal outlet rooting for Hillary, and seeing Fox News supporting Trump is normal, no surprise.
Fox has higher ratings than all others combined because they were smart enough to have a billionaire who buys Conservatives, counter the multiple billionaire owned Liberal outlets.
They're the only game in town.

One could conclude with so many billionaire owned media outlets that Liberals are just cheaper to purchase, which allows them to sell legislation at wholesale prices.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 9, 2017)

But what legislation and who's buying it?

If it were just billionaires for themselves, why would they need both parties? Their interests would be covered by one.


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 11, 2017)

Nationwide? ICE Raids were conducted in six states apparently.

9–10 November 1938, Germany, Night of Broken Glass. 

February 11th 2017, USA.... " Enforcement Actions In Target Rich Environments" (ICE language)


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## Soundhound (Feb 11, 2017)

Kristallnacht


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## chimuelo (Feb 11, 2017)

Excellent.
Vermin being removed.
I suppose Liberals wouldnt want to claim these violent criminals are partners?
Liberal media is leaving out the fact many of these criminals are being targeted with help from Mexican authorities....

Lions & Tigers & Bears......Oh My..


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## Soundhound (Feb 11, 2017)

Of course once they legalize discrimination, this will all be a lot easier for them. I'm starting a file on all the shit they're doing that's going under the radar. 

https://www.thenation.com/article/leaked-draft-of-trumps-religious-freedom-order-reveals-sweeping-plans-to-legalize-discrimination/


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## chimuelo (Feb 11, 2017)

Leaks are to hide what's really under the radar.

My guess is lots of public union federal liberals are about to be reassigned to a porn desk or a job for Liberals relatives at the GSA.
Lots of multi million dollar parties in Vegas I hear.
They can't esist selfies.


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## woodsdenis (Feb 14, 2017)

Out like Flynn !! One can only hope that this leads to the unravelling of this total mess of an administration.


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 14, 2017)

woodsdenis said:


> Out like Flynn !! One can only hope that this leads to the unravelling of this total mess of an administration.


Yeah, Bannon needs to go next!


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## Uncle Peter (Feb 14, 2017)

Michael K. Bain said:


> I think the term "cuck" is stupid, but come on, are you telling me that this person isn't perfect example of "snowflake" (overly sensitive person)?



Ah! So that's what the actor who plays Gimli (the dwarf in the TLOR trilogy) does now. He was never one to take any nonsense


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## woodsdenis (Feb 19, 2017)

http://usuncut.com/news/sweden-officially-asks-trump-explain-comments-fake-terror-attack-last-night/

What a gigantic fucktard.


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## Red (Feb 19, 2017)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...is-refugee-centre-florida-rally-a7588516.html

Not saying this "article" or the one above is correct.

It's a new world!


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## chimuelo (Feb 20, 2017)

The New World is gaining ground too.
NYTimes reporter recently got caught lying at one of those big Liberal gatherings where elites decide what should be done with about the rest of us, was bragging about how our First Lady was a prostitute.
He probably got a promotion after the apology, but an actress there became angry at his obvious hatred and took to Twitter denouncing what a bunch of lying bastards were there, mostly "Journalists" and legislators.
For speaking out about the wealthy white Liberals she has ruined her acting career, that's a given, but interesting pattern of Liberal payback has started, similar to Liberal leaks coming from Brennan and Clappers stalwarts. Hacking, leaking, trying to silence free speech and destroy by any means possible to retain their lucrative lifestyles.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...k.html&usg=AFQjCNEGKuwl5V9h37CpiPortQT9ntEwGA


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## chimuelo (Feb 20, 2017)

Oscars will be awesome this year as the make Hollywood Great again crowd will be in full swing to counter the make America Great crowd, followed by the make Space great again crowd, and various elections to make Europe Great again this year too.
Rumor has it people of color might even win this time around at the Oscars.
Watching them finally diversify will be a sign of the New World too.


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## pixel (Feb 20, 2017)

Dandelion Trump follow fake news? Idiocracy4life hooooomie!  Seriously he's the biggest lier and c*t I have seen recently in media. He screwed Poles (my origins) and Scotts (Scotland is my actual place of residence)  Now he's trying to discredit Sweden. He should be banned from going to and talking about Europe.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...donald-trump-sweden-immigration-a7589946.html


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## chimuelo (Feb 21, 2017)

The World became accustomed to soft talking diplomats all smiling, shaking hands and lying to each other. All striving for rewards in the land of phony Meritocracy.

Now our diplomats are guys wearing metals for killing folks.
They didn't like the Olive Branches from the last 8 years.

Boy they're going to love these guys.
And their boss is an out of control crazy gangster.
Surrounded by generals trying to calm him down, and not attack everything he sees.

Definately unhinged.

You could put the guy on a deserted island, and he'd be ordering crabs around, calling Coconuts losers.


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## pixel (Feb 21, 2017)

and he will blame wind for bringing illegal immigrant sand to his marked (with a stick on sand) area


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## chimuelo (Feb 21, 2017)

Trump wants the Hispanic vote for 2018.
After all of his insults he has one option only.

Get rid of the gangs and criminals...
Show compassion allowing Dreamers to stay, provided they can show a clean record.
Be the first President to reform the broken immigration system that benefits Liberal and Conservative politicians.
Make it benefit all Americans and those working to become citizens.
All he needs is 1 more vote in the Supreme Court.

Zen Master says we'll see....


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## Udo (Feb 25, 2017)

Baron Greuner said:


> Haha! The Peoples Republic of California. Yeah right.
> 
> Who the hell would buy all those Ferraris?



The push for "Calexit" (under various different names) appears to be getting stronger and stronger!


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## mc_deli (Feb 26, 2017)

Robert Mercer's money and propaganda. Discuss.


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## chimuelo (Feb 26, 2017)

Hey somebody's finally doing investigative journalism.
I'm studying the supremacist fascist Nazi Bannon.
How computer science helped him at GS, Hollywood, Breitbart and now chief advisor to Trump.
Just found about Mercer myself but am nose deep in M. McLuhans Understanding Media.
Fascinating stuff.
Edgar Cayce inspired McLuhan, who inspired others.
Most fascinating is how AI with proper dispersal of targeted funding allowed a campaign to win spending 1/15th of what the Liberal cash machine wasted.
If you're not reading at least about Bannon you're watching Trump or Liberal media and they are the distraction at this point.


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## woodsdenis (Mar 6, 2017)

After this weekend !!!!!! Try and defend the orange baboon now.


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## Soundhound (Mar 6, 2017)

At this point an actual orange baboon in the oval office would be a significant improvement.


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## Flaneurette (Mar 22, 2017)

Someone seen this yet? one of the best short documentaries I've seen in a while.

Why do so many people use the internet to harass and threaten people, and stretch the freedom of speech to its limits? Director Kyrre Lien meets a global group of strongly opinionated individuals, who spend their time debating online on the subjects they care most strongly about. Online platforms are their favourite tools to express the opinions that others might find objectionable in language that often offends. Do they behave in the same way when they come offline?


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## chimuelo (Mar 23, 2017)

Cracks me up.
Complaining about immigrants, etc. then his hot Asian girlfriend brings him morning Tea....


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