# Those James Horner chords



## Tony112 (Mar 26, 2009)

HOla

I like James Horner's music a lot, i think he is one of the best film composers ever, i do hear often a certain progression he is using, for example in A beautiful Mind. (listen to the chords in the beginning played by the strings)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG1FYAvOe5A


I am not an expert in harmony, but i've came up with the following sketch, in trying to recreate that harmony, which i like very much.

http://www.box.net/shared/9mki7o5ra1

am I close?

What I did was the following:

Choir: A A E D E D

Strings: 

d f# g
a c# d
d f# g 

And then repeating it ! :shock: :?


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## Angel (Mar 26, 2009)

Hi Tony,
I didn't compare the both versions. I just tried to "hear", if it sounds like a Horner-Chord-Progression and I think it does...

I am currently no fan of Horner but "a beautiful mind" has really some depths in it that I like.

I think, you are getting very close to that typical Horner-mood. Well done.

Angel


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## Tony112 (Mar 26, 2009)

thanks angel  

perhaps none of my buisness, but why don't you like Horner's music not that much? Is it because of his latest scores or so?

Or did he also stole one of your pieces :D ? On the composers forum there was one guy that had made a video on youtube, showing Horner *stealing* motifs/melodies of other composers. That member took that very seriously, he hated Horner. :D 

I am a big fan of Horner, i think he is a great composer, did you hear his last score?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRYQcTJLVXA

This is one is really beautiful.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 26, 2009)

James Horner is a very talented guy. He just really hurt himself by quoting famous passages of music (over and over and over and over again) and not crediting the authors. Jerry Goldsmith even took him to task for it. 

A guy with that kind of talent doesn't need to do that kind of thing. So you get this sort of negative response from people whenever he's mentioned because they assume he stoled whatever you're hearing. Even if he didn't.


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## lux (Mar 26, 2009)

I really like Horner, some scores are plain great.

Tony, later i'll give it a listen when at home


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## Angel (Mar 26, 2009)

Oh, I do not hate him... feel free to like him 
I like his works occasionally. The stealing thing is an issue, you are right.
But I don't want to generate a discussion about Jimmy Horny. I just said as a footnote that he is not one of my favourites. No less no more. 
No reason to arguòä«   š“êä«   š“ëä«


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## Audun Jemtland (Mar 28, 2009)

Dave Connor @ Thu Mar 26 said:


> James Horner is a very talented guy. He just really hurt himself by quoting famous passages of music (over and over and over and over again) and not crediting the authors. Jerry Goldsmith even took him to task for it.
> 
> A guy with that kind of talent doesn't need to do that kind of thing. So you get this sort of negative response from people whenever he's mentioned because they assume he stoled whatever you're hearing. Even if he didn't.


I didn't know this,can you mention some he has quoted?
I want to listen. it's really interesting,because I think it's a psycological thing to it to "steal". Sometimes you make something in your own music you've heard before..without knowing it. But I catch myself knowing I thefted something because of huge inspiration and quickly change it.
I remember I made the piano cue from enemy of the state,"brills theme"long before harry and trevor,I hadn't even heard the music or seen the movie.. That's really odd,like some kinda dejavu. And another thing,I think we all are intertwined somehow...we are all one


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## Tony112 (Mar 28, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMHJlkYlzKE


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## Frederick Russ (Mar 28, 2009)

Dave Connor @ Thu Mar 26 said:


> James Horner is a very talented guy. He just really hurt himself by quoting famous passages of music (over and over and over and over again) and not crediting the authors. Jerry Goldsmith even took him to task for it.
> 
> A guy with that kind of talent doesn't need to do that kind of thing. So you get this sort of negative response from people whenever he's mentioned because they assume he stole whatever you're hearing. Even if he didn't.



Exactly and I agree 100%. I think his orchestration and original writing is actually pretty nice much in the same approach as James Newton Howard (although I have to say that Howard is more of my favorite). It appears however that James Horner did make some bad choices in the past in his search for some of his ideas by essentially copying these passages nearly note for note - not a sound alike vibe instance per se but basically the exact passage. I agree it really hurt his credibility and I'm surprised he hasn't been in litigation over it (maybe he has?) The guy is way too talented to resort to that kind of thievery imo.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 28, 2009)

audun jemtland @ Sat Mar 28 said:


> I didn't know this,can you mention some he has quoted?
> I want to listen. it's really interesting,because I think it's a psycological thing to it to "steal". Sometimes you make something in your own music you've heard before..without knowing it. But I catch myself knowing I thefted something because of huge inspiration and quickly change it.



It's really quite a boatload. There's a famous passage from Shostakovichs 5th symphony (slow movement) in the satellite view sequence in Patriot Games that is note for note but terribly re-orchestrated. Star Trek II has quotes from Prokoviev's Alexander Nevsky and Debussey's La Mer. He very often uses Benjamen Britten's distinctive brass writing from Peter Grimes (Titanic and too many films to count.) On and on.

As I said, Horner is a very talented guy so I just don't understand it. I really like his Braveheart score. There's some lifts in that as well but it's a very well handled score and perhaps his most original (but I don't really know.)


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## Dave Connor (Mar 28, 2009)

Bingo Frederick.


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## Thonex (Mar 28, 2009)

Listening to his Carl Orff Carmina rip-off was pretty funny... only because I've been asked to do so many rip-offs of Carmina that when I heard his... I thinking... "hey... didn't I do that??" :lol: :lol: 

Which brings me to he probably was just trying to please the director who had a bad case of "Temp Love". But yeah... he's so talented... he could easily "mix it up" a little more and have avoided all of this. Maybe even changing the key can help perception-wise.


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## RiffWraith (Mar 28, 2009)

Ok, I have a Q. Now, I am NOT saying that Horner isn't talented, but...

If a composer (anyone) writes great music, you say he's talented. If a composer writes great music, but does so ripping off other people, how do you say, "he's_ already _so talented - why does he need to steal?"

Well, maybe he's not_ already _so talented if he has stolen a good deal of music...

Just a thought.


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## Audun Jemtland (Mar 28, 2009)

Thonex @ Sat Mar 28 said:


> Which brings me to he probably was just trying to please the director who had a bad case of "Temp Love".


And what's up with that?the temp love. It can completely push the composer into a brick wall,leading to absolutely nothing.

I think emotion inspires a composer...colours,explinations,stories,sound.
And not:"listen to this,this is the sh*it,make it like that only better" Uninspiring? :lol: 

Music is suppose to lift the movie in the director's desired direction. Seems like alot don't care or know.


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## madbulk (Mar 28, 2009)

There was an interesting discussion on a local jazz station the other day where someone pointed out that composers are limited in that if you quote Wagner in a Star Wars cue you're gonna catch some heat, whereas if you're a writer you just add a footnote and continue on about your business. Philosophical thing being, "HEY YEAH, why can't I just use a little bit of Tchaik Sym 4 if I want?! Of course I didn't write it first! But I want it here between these two other things that I did write, or think I did." We need a device.


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## jsaras (Mar 28, 2009)

Tony112 @ Thu Mar 26 said:


> What I did was the following:
> Choir: A A E D E D



I think that was originally written by The Who! ;=0


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## Hal (Mar 28, 2009)

not my favorite either
not much of a fan.
however i love beautiful mind GREAT score


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