# Advice on a new PC for Cubase/film work. i7, i9, AMD, Xeon...



## alfred tapscott (Nov 19, 2018)

Hi all!. I came to look for a bit of advice, a bit lost on what's out and what works well now for Cubase / VEP setup for filmscoring. 

I've been jumping around the forums, so I would not repeat a lot of answered things, and still have some clear doubts. 

I have an i7 5820k around 3 years old with 2400 64gb of RAM and some SSDs on my RME card. It's been doing ok, but must say I get spikes and weird things every once in a while, I'm sure was not installed in the most efficient way for audio, but my years of a computer geek went past some years ago. I built it myself and it's been doing ok. I've been using my 32gb or an older i7 as a slave to put some of the vienna stuff, even though I end up usually running on my main machine. 

I'm thinking of getting a new machine as my main machine, and using this one as a VEP slave with 128gb of ram, and switching my 64gb of ram to the new machine. 

So...I don't want to spend a fortune, but I want something that will work clearly better and more reliable than what I have. Around 2-3k$ I believe. 

Chip...was going to go with a top i7...I feel i9 7900 is a bit too expensive, around 600$ seems enough for something not overpriced at the moment. I'm seeing the AMD Ryzens perform really well on tests. Anybody suggesting them? Pros/cons? 
Threadripper 1950X at 619€ right now ona blackfriday salen and seems to perform similar to i9 7900x. I know about the xeon/i9 battle, but I don't feel like spending the difference if it's not that clear that everything will be so much better. 

Mobo...a bit lost here. anything with 128gb support and some m.2s would be fine for me. good value/price suggestions? (I know delends if I get AMD or Intel)

Graphics card I would put my geforce GT740 that gives me my 4 screens. 

RAM, I'd get the cheapest 128gb kit I could, maybe 2666. My idea, even though might be unpopular, would be to put these on my old machine, that supports up to 3333mhz, and put my "old" 2400mhz 64gb on the new machine (I believe the speed difference would not make a huge impact??). Would anybody advice to put 4 older dimms and 4 newer dimms on my slave and put the other 64gb of new ram on the new machine better?. 

I would get an m.2 for the system, and some ssds for libraries. Whatever cooler is ok for it, and that's it. 

Win 10 home or pro? any real differences?. My idea is to get everything and have somebody build it and fine tune the installation so it's efficient, if I can find somebody in Barcelona. 

I know I threw in a lot of info, will be great if anybody wants to jump in and throw some advice or experiences 

Thanks again!


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## Sami (Nov 19, 2018)

Buy a 9900k with 128gb of ram (it’s coming). Forget the rest.


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## Pictus (Nov 19, 2018)

Check the charts to have an idea into what CPU would be better:
https://techreport.com/review/34253/intel-core-i9-9980xe-cpu-reviewed/8
http://www.scanproaudio.info/2018/10/19/intels-i9-9900k-and-the-coffee-lake-refresh/

As a reference for price/compatibility, create/edit a PC configuration in https://es.pcpartpicker.com/list/Q2kxNQ


Setting all cores to the same speed may help a bit with your current system.
A clean system installation with updated drivers/bios may also help...


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## Øivind (Nov 19, 2018)

Might also be worth checking out this page for a bit of dawbench results.
http://www.scanproaudio.info/tag/dawbench/


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 19, 2018)

Pictus said:


> Setting all cores to the same speed may help a bit with your current system.
> A clean system installation with updated drivers/bios may also help...



This is good advice. If you aren't really having performance issues, you might be wasting money on a new build, you'll always get weird spikes in Cubase. Have you tried hosting VI's inside VEPro (on the single machine)?


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## alfred tapscott (Nov 20, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> This is good advice. If you aren't really having performance issues, you might be wasting money on a new build, you'll always get weird spikes in Cubase. Have you tried hosting VI's inside VEPro (on the single machine)?


Yes, as I said, I use VEP also on my main machine, but am also retaining myself a bit to not load tons of stuff to avoid problems. I'd like to have a machine that allows me to work fast and put much more stuff without worrying too much.


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## alfred tapscott (Nov 20, 2018)

Thanks very much to all of you!. 

So, why are you recommending 1151socket chips instead of 2011 chips, if they don't allow me to have 128gb of ram and the 2011s do? @Sami , @Pictus , @oivind_rosvold


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## Pictus (Nov 20, 2018)

You are welcome, for 128GB go for the socket 2066, but wait a bit and get the new Intel Basin Falls Skylake-X Refresh
https://www.anandtech.com/print/13539/the-intel-core-i9-9980xe-review


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## Sami (Nov 20, 2018)

alfred tapscott said:


> Thanks very much to all of you!.
> 
> So, why are you recommending 1151socket chips instead of 2011 chips, if they don't allow me to have 128gb of ram and the 2011s do? @Sami , @Pictus , @oivind_rosvold


The current 1151 chips have support for 128gb of ram (z390 chipset). You just need the new double capacity (double height) RAM modules. Socket 2011 and the chipset were never my favourite to be honest. Intel has a propensity for screwing up the HEDT platforms in a strange kind of "two steps forward one step back" way. The 8700k was already the CPU I recommended to everyone but now the 9900k has taken that place. I still recommend a custom delid and overclocking (the chip cannot be trivially delided like it's predecessors) to maximise the benefits and you need to look into proper cooling (NH-D15 or a >280mm rad or custom) and power delivery (i.e. a solid board and a good PSU).


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## Sami (Nov 20, 2018)

Pictus said:


> You are welcome, for 128GB go for the socket 2066, but wait a bit and get the new Intel Basin Falls Skylake-X Refresh
> https://www.anandtech.com/print/13539/the-intel-core-i9-9980xe-review


Do you have a specific reason for recommending the basin falls chips? It's really easy to get hold of a skylake x pre-refresh CPU and delid it for pretty much the same performance and much better performance per watt from what I read so far. I usually recommend the 7900x to most people and have built 4 systems with it already, from my (obviously anecdotal) experience, it's very easy to run it at 45 all core sync under liquid metal with an air cooler and retail pricing has come down a bit, certainly more attractive than the basin falls ones.
Cheers, S.


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## Pictus (Nov 20, 2018)

Sami said:


> Do you have a specific reason for recommending the basin falls chips? It's really easy to get hold of a skylake x pre-refresh CPU and delid it for pretty much the same performance and much better performance per watt from what I read so far. I usually recommend the 7900x to most people and have built 4 systems with it already, from my (obviously anecdotal) experience, it's very easy to run it at 45 all core sync under liquid metal with an air cooler and retail pricing has come down a bit, certainly more attractive than the basin falls ones.
> Cheers, S.


Because does not need to delid...

Btw, something is odd, they are only using the new RAM with motherboards with 2 slots...
https://www.anandtech.com/print/13579/in-the-lab-double-capacity-2x32gb-ddr4-from-gskill-and-zadak


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## Taj Mikel (Nov 21, 2018)

Does anyone know when the new i9 X series processors will actually ship from Intel? I can’t fjnd information anywhere and two Intel reps also told me they don’t know (found that surprising). 

I’ve been looking at the i9 9920x.


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## alfred tapscott (Nov 22, 2018)

ok, thanks very much!

but still, I don't see cheap 32gb ram dimms, so it'll be pretty expensive to get 128gb on these 1151 machines, but if you think they are really so much better I'd go with 64gigs of ram for the moment, I believe.


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## Breitenbach (Nov 26, 2018)

I apologize if this has been discussed at any great length, but I don't see many people around here talking about AMD chips very seriously. I've been pretty married to building an i9 system, but my tech guy suggested I check out the AMD Ryzen Threadrippers. They are literally half the price with about the same specs.


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## Pictus (Nov 26, 2018)

Breitenbach said:


> I apologize if this has been discussed at any great length, but I don't see many people around here talking about AMD chips very seriously. I've been pretty married to building an i9 system, but my tech guy suggested I check out the AMD Ryzen Threadrippers. They are literally half the price with about the same specs.



Check:
https://techreport.com/review/34214/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2920x-cpu-reviewed/7
http://www.scanproaudio.info/2018/0...bench-just-a-little-bit-of-history-repeating/


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## Breitenbach (Nov 26, 2018)

Pictus said:


> Check:
> https://techreport.com/review/34214/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2920x-cpu-reviewed/7
> http://www.scanproaudio.info/2018/0...bench-just-a-little-bit-of-history-repeating/


This is extremely helpful thank you very much!


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## alfred tapscott (Nov 27, 2018)

Ok, so I guess I'll return my 1950x threadripper I got for a good deal, and go for a 9900k. Just worried to get now 64gb of ram and to have to get rid of them by when 128 are affordable, since it's only got 4 slots. Any advice on what motherboard?. And what ram and cooler would you get?? Thanks very much!!


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## Breitenbach (Nov 27, 2018)

Sami said:


> Buy a 9900k with 128gb of ram (it’s coming). Forget the rest.



Do you prefer the 9900k over something like the 7960x mainly because of the price? It seems like the 7960x outperforms the 9900k.

I'm wondering if I should bite the bullet and go for the 7960x to just have a beast machine.


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## Pictus (Nov 27, 2018)

alfred tapscott said:


> Ok, so I guess I'll return my 1950x threadripper I got for a good deal, and go for a 9900k. Just worried to get now 64gb of ram and to have to get rid of them by when 128 are affordable, since it's only got 4 slots. Any advice on what motherboard?. And what ram and cooler would you get?? Thanks very much!!



-The minimum cooler is Noctua NH-D15 https://pcpartpicker.com/product/4vzv6h/noctua-cpu-cooler-nhd15

-For RAM can go with this https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bXbkcf/gskill-memory-f42666c15q64gvr

-For motherboard if you need Thunderbolt:
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/yc...ignare-atx-lga1151-motherboard-z390-designare
If do not need, have 3 to choose: (Can add Thunderbolt card later)
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fy...ter-atx-lga1151-motherboard-z390-aorus-master
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/n6...ltra-atx-lga1151-motherboard-z390-aorus-ultra
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/MV...us-pro-atx-lga1151-motherboard-z390-aorus-pro


*WARNING!*
For audio works you do not want a motherboard with PLX chip(higher latency).
You do not want the ASUS WS Z390 Pro and SuperMicro C9Z390-PGW.

BTW, he forgot to mention the Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE with build-in Thunderbolt
ports and the VRM +- the same as the Gigabyte Ultra/Pro/Elite.


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## alfred tapscott (Nov 27, 2018)

Pictus said:


> -The minimum cooler is Noctua NH-D15 https://pcpartpicker.com/product/4vzv6h/noctua-cpu-cooler-nhd15
> 
> -For RAM can go with this https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bXbkcf/gskill-memory-f42666c15q64gvr
> 
> ...




Wow! Thanks very much @Pictus !!. That was really useful. I am just a bit hesitant cause this would be a not super expensive build that seems pretty powerful, just so bad that I only get 4 slots for ram. I guess I can still use my i7 5820k with 8x8GB of ram as a VEP server, and 4x16 on this new machine will be fine till 4x32 become reeally cheap. 
I guess it makes sense, since a similar performing machine on the 2066 architecture that allows 8 dimms of ram would be maybe a 7920 or 940, which are double the price, plus a more expensive board, etc.... Makes sense?

And by the way, the noctua you are talking about, is it not too noisy?. Would a liquid system be better in that case?. 

Thanks again for your great help.


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## Pictus (Nov 27, 2018)

alfred tapscott said:


> Wow! Thanks very much



You are welcome.



> @Pictus !!. That was really useful. I am just a bit hesitant cause this would be a not super expensive build that seems pretty powerful, just so bad that I only get 4 slots for ram. I guess I can still use my i7 5820k with 8x8GB of ram as a VEP server, and 4x16 on this new machine will be fine till 4x32 become reeally cheap.
> I guess it makes sense, since a similar performing machine on the 2066 architecture that allows 8 dimms of ram would be maybe a 7920 or 940, which are double the price, plus a more expensive board, etc.... Makes sense?



I guess yes...



> And by the way, the noctua you are talking about, is it not too noisy?. Would a liquid system be better in that case?.



This is the king of air cooler...
If want something really silent and efficient, get a custom water kit
and put the pump/radiator/fans into another room... 
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-kit-l360-r2-0



Or use a BIG radiator without fans(up to 200Watts ?)


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## Sami (Nov 27, 2018)

I feel this whole discussion has escalated slightly to unreasonable levels. 
Re 9900k vs 7960x: depending on workload, it might be well worth going for the 7960x but the 9900k will offer a very large part of the 7960x's performance for less money. Even more if overclocked.

Re Noctua vs. watercooling: I feel it is nonsensical to confront a non hardware enthusiast with a ton of videos and technicalities. I run Noctua coolers on all my systems except one and they are whisper quiet and extremely reliable. For the 9900k I would definitely suggest an NH-D15. We are primarily working professionals who need these machines to make a living. Tinkering around with a custom watercooling loop might be appealing to the computer enthusiast side of us, but I feel not advisable.
If you want to go for a "water cooled solution" because of some reason (and versus the NH-D15 there are not many), you need a 280mm or 360mm radiator (e.g. the Corsair H150i pro). They are easy to install and apparently reliable, but they are neither necessarily better performing nor quieter than a proper aircooled build.

I have built several systems for composer colleagues. I have found several times that they wanted "a beast" or some permutation on this subject when in fact a six-core with 64GB of RAM and a 2TB SSD was more than enough for all the work they ever did. 
Therefore I advise you to critically analyze your workflow needs foremost and to gain insight and clarity about your needs as a professional composer and not your wishes as a hardware geek. I see the appeal of "the best system possible" but I also cannot stress enough that you have to think in terms of the business plan and the bottom line. If you happen to be Hans Zimmer this might be less of a concern but in a field where -even in the civilized world- we are not being inundated with cash, saving 1000 € or more because of good planning is just good business practice.


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## JohnG (Nov 27, 2018)

I usually get the "second best" CPU. The one that seems shiny and awesome today will be old news in a year, and I keep computers a lot longer than that.

RAM speed seems immaterial, but clock speed is not. I'd rather have four cores at 4.x or higher than 12 cores of 2.3 GHz. Yes, I've seen posts to the contrary but it appears that some of my libraries have a lot of scripting and they behave better with a fast clock.

Lots of RAM is nice, but sometimes I wonder if you can build two 64GB computers for a price comparable to a single "monster" of 128GB. Then you get two CPUs, two busses, etc. I realise you then have an extra computer to maintain and that some of the RAM is used for the second OS, but I like the idea of two horses pulling instead of one big one.


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## rgames (Nov 27, 2018)

Concur with Sami and JohnG. You don't need a beast PC for DAW work. Any of the non-Xeon i7 chips is perfectly fine. Performance these days has a lot more to do with real-time performance than CPU performance.

Also I've tried liquid and air cooling on the same machine and found that air cooling can be made much quieter. The reason is that the pump "hums" in a freq range that is harder to kill. They might be near equivalent on a measurement mic but the pump noise is much more audible.

rgames


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## Robert Kooijman (Nov 28, 2018)

rgames said:


> Also I've tried liquid and air cooling on the same machine and found that air cooling can be made much quieter. The reason is that the pump "hums" in a freq range that is harder to kill. They might be near equivalent on a measurement mic but the pump noise is much more audible.
> 
> rgames



Well, it depends... We're running a water-cooled DAW that you practically don't hear.

Indeed, a typical pump hums in a low freq range that is hard to kill. BUT, that hum pretty much disappears when speeding down. If you run a custom set-up, e.g. with an oversized passive radiator and PWM controlled pump, noise becomes less of an issue. Take for example the popular Phobya DC12-400 PWM 12Volt pump. Terribly hummy at full speed, but it only needs to run at say 500-1000 RPM even with our overclocked i9 9900K. Passive radiator(s) are totally quiet, and so can be the motherboard if it uses decent components (VRM, heat sinks). Same story with an overdimensioned PSU that can run (almost) passive.

Just saying, water cooling can be an excellent solution for a DAW. But then to make it quiet, a cheap all in one solution with screaming fans might not cut it


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## alfred tapscott (Nov 28, 2018)

Sami said:


> I feel this whole discussion has escalated slightly to unreasonable levels.
> Re 9900k vs 7960x: depending on workload, it might be well worth going for the 7960x but the 9900k will offer a very large part of the 7960x's performance for less money. Even more if overclocked.
> 
> Re Noctua vs. watercooling: I feel it is nonsensical to confront a non hardware enthusiast with a ton of videos and technicalities. I run Noctua coolers on all my systems except one and they are whisper quiet and extremely reliable. For the 9900k I would definitely suggest an NH-D15. We are primarily working professionals who need these machines to make a living. Tinkering around with a custom watercooling loop might be appealing to the computer enthusiast side of us, but I feel not advisable.
> ...


Thanks again!. Really valuable info here. You are spot on, @Sami , I don't want a beast, and my years of geeg computer went past a decade ago. I want a machine that will be reliable, that won't limit me when I got a bi crazy on a cue with VIs, and that will last for a while.
With that in mind, I think I might go for the 9740x. I know I'd get a similar performance on the 9900k, but this one allows me to put 64GB of 2666 memory and then buy another 4x16gb in the future to get 128gb without trashing what I have. I know I'm paying an extra 500€ just to have this, but I'm ok with it. I won't pay the 1000€ extra for the 9760 for a little performance improvement.

What mobo do you guys recomment to be reliable, good, and not crazy expensive? Maybe some in the aorus line, same I was looking at for the 9900k?. Which do you think is the best choice for the price?.

I feel the noctua will be perfect, I have the machines actually in another room, but since I leave the door open usually it's nice if they are not suuper noisy. 

Thanks again, hopefully with this I'll be clear on what to get


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## Pictus (Nov 28, 2018)

For socket 2066 ASRock X299 Taichi *XE*
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/L9x9TW/asrock-x299-taichi-xe-atx-lga2066-motherboard-x299-taichi-xe


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## alfred tapscott (Dec 3, 2018)

Sure, will go with that then, thanks!


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