# Is anyone else participating in this composing competition?



## SaintDufus (Mar 10, 2015)

Is anyone else here currently competing in the Marvin Hamlisch Film Scoring Contest for Emerging Composers?

Has anyone ever participated in it before?

http://cine.org/hamlischcontest/


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## FriFlo (Mar 10, 2015)

I find those competitions only really interesting, if there is a considerable amount in for the winner(s) and/or the finalists get performed by live instruments. This one has sponsored sample giveaways ... I find it a little insulting to the composers, as in other departments of film, there seems to be much more in it! 
For this one, I would not pay any registration fee and probably wouldn't even want to put the work into, that is necessary for having a chance to win. But ... to each his own!


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## SaintDufus (Mar 10, 2015)

So that's a resounding "yes" from FriFlo...anyone else?


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## The Darris (Mar 10, 2015)

No. I did this last year and it is a complete waste of time. Be weary of any competition you have to pay to play. I didn't do this to win, I did it to get experience and learn something for which it was absolutely a waste of my time. I learned nothing aside from the fact that having a director/composer relationship is a must, not to mention some sense of sound design to help feel the over all pace and atmosphere. If you are really looking to get some experience working with picture, you are better off finding a move without a score to work on. If that doesn't sound interesting enough, check out your local film schools and get in touch with the professors to help get you connected with students who need music for their films. This is how you gain experience early on, and you also get to meet tons of cool people in the process. 

Good luck.

-Chris


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## SaintDufus (Mar 10, 2015)

The Darris @ Tue Mar 10 said:


> No. I did this last year and it is a complete waste of time. Be weary of any competition you have to pay to play. I didn't do this to win, I did it to get experience and learn something for which it was absolutely a waste of my time. I learned nothing aside from the fact that having a director/composer relationship is a must, not to mention some sense of sound design to help feel the over all pace and atmosphere. If you are really looking to get some experience working with picture, you are better off finding a move without a score to work on. If that doesn't sound interesting enough, check out your local film schools and get in touch with the professors to help get you connected with students who need music for their films. This is how you gain experience early on, and you also get to meet tons of cool people in the process.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> -Chris



Chris, this is a very interesting response, and I would like to ask you more about it.

You say you didn't enter the contest to win, but only to learn and gain experience. I think that's a great reason to do it, and I can't imagine you didn't learn anything from the process (other than the the cynical "lessons" you cite as proof that you learned nothing).

Didn't the process of scoring a film teach you anything about scoring a film? How could you go through a months-long creative process like that, and not learn or gain anything useful from it?

Maybe I'm just still too "green" to be as jaded as you sound, but scoring this film was one of the funnest and instructive composing experiences I've had. I would do it again in a heartbeat, and I can't wait for next year's version.

But as FriFlo said: to each his own. I don't mean to disparage your experience, it's just hard for me to believe you learned nothing at all from it. For me it was a learning bonanza.


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## Jdiggity1 (Mar 10, 2015)

I entered.
I had a few days with no work, so it was a great way to keep me writing.
Even if I don't place as finalist, I won't consider it a waste of time. It was a great exercise in writing in a style I am completely new to.
There was a freedom about it, knowing that If I stuffed it up, no harm done.
If I did any good, then it's something else for the showreel.
Good luck with your entry SaintDufus! It's always an education to see what others did.


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## The Darris (Mar 10, 2015)

SaintDufus @ Tue Mar 10 said:


> The Darris @ Tue Mar 10 said:
> 
> 
> > No. I did this last year and it is a complete waste of time. Be weary of any competition you have to pay to play. I didn't do this to win, I did it to get experience and learn something for which it was absolutely a waste of my time. I learned nothing aside from the fact that having a director/composer relationship is a must, not to mention some sense of sound design to help feel the over all pace and atmosphere. If you are really looking to get some experience working with picture, you are better off finding a move without a score to work on. If that doesn't sound interesting enough, check out your local film schools and get in touch with the professors to help get you connected with students who need music for their films. This is how you gain experience early on, and you also get to meet tons of cool people in the process.
> ...



Firstly, film scoring isn't just about applying music to picture. It is about connecting the audience with the emotion and support the visual elements the scene/film portrays. The best way to do this is via the composer/director relationship. The whole reason I signed up to do it was to get criticism and critiques on my approach and writing. Instead, I got a one sentence remark that said, "Your music lacked the emotion feeling needed for the film." That is it. What on Earth can I learn from that? Like I said, I learned that the relationship of working with a director is important to how the music should play out and that competitions like this are so subjective in nature that it is pointless. I stand by my comment that taking the time to meet film makers who are you like yourself, meaning just getting started and wanting to learn, is way more beneficial then spending a month with a 5 minute short animated film without sound that you pay to work on in hopes to either win a competition or to get experience. 

You asked me if this experience taught me anything about scoring to film. Yes, in the sense that it gave me time in my software to learn how to use many of the film scoring tools but now I am just a guy who spent 20 bucks on a 5 minute video. Seems like a waste of my money. I gained zero contacts out of it, I got zero feedback that was constructive or useful to me as a composer, and my own personal scoring experience was pointless. Since then, I've worked on two films that had a crew and a director. I learned more in the spotting session with the director than I did in the month I spent writing the music for last years competition. I am a big fan of education and learning but I would much rather learn from experience versus competition. This industry depends on the relationships you build. 

Again, I spent 20 bucks in the hope to gain some experience and acquire constructive feedback and criticism and received non of that. Of course I am jaded but that is my personal take on it. If you enjoyed yourself then go for it again. I just thought I would share my personal thoughts on competitions in general. 

Film scoring is not a competition, it is a collaboration. (I hope someone can quote me on that someday). :D 

Best,

Chris


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## chibear (Mar 10, 2015)

Explored a little more in this thread: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42592


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## SaintDufus (Mar 10, 2015)

Jdiggity1 @ Tue Mar 10 said:


> I entered.
> I had a few days with no work, so it was a great way to keep me writing.
> Even if I don't place as finalist, I won't consider it a waste of time. It was a great exercise in writing in a style I am completely new to.
> There was a freedom about it, knowing that If I stuffed it up, no harm done.
> ...


Thank you, Jdiggity1: good luck to you too!

I would be very interested to hear/see your creation. Working on this project has made me love the film, and seeing how other composers approached its scoring would be tremendously interesting and fun.

I wonder if you might be interested in discussing the project offline? In a general way, I mean. I would love to hear about your experience, and share mine. Please feel free to send me a private message about it if you are interested.

That invitation also goes out to anyone else who has participated in this competition, either this year or in a previous year, and would like to share about it.


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## SaintDufus (Mar 10, 2015)

The Darris @ Tue Mar 10 said:


> SaintDufus @ Tue Mar 10 said:
> 
> 
> > The Darris @ Tue Mar 10 said:
> ...



Hi Chris,

Thanks for elaborating. Now that I hear more of your story, I can better understand your feelings. (Was that one-line critique ALL they said?)

And I do agree about other ways of gaining film scoring experience. This is my first contest; you are a bit further down the road than me, and you have had other experiences which you found superior.

P.S. Do you have a link to the films you scored? I would be interested to check out your work. 

Cheers, 
Jason


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## SaintDufus (Mar 10, 2015)

chibear @ Tue Mar 10 said:


> Explored a little more in this thread: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42592



Aha! Thank you chibear.


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## Lassi Tani (Mar 11, 2015)

I participated in it this year. I had so much fun composing, and the animation was so inspiring and well made. It was the very first time I've ever composed to a film, so I won't probably get high ranking in it, but as an experience it was worth it. Can't wait to hear others' pieces.


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## jmiliad (Mar 11, 2015)

I am personally not really fond of composition competitions in general.


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## SaintDufus (Mar 11, 2015)

sekkosiki @ Wed Mar 11 said:


> I participated in it this year. I had so much fun composing, and the animation was so inspiring and well made. It was the very first time I've ever composed to a film, so I won't probably get high ranking in it, but as an experience it was worth it. Can't wait to hear others' pieces.



This is exactly how I feel, sekkosiki!

Since your experience seems to match mine exactly, I would love to chat about the experience with you, if you're interested. Please feel free to send me a PM.

In particular I'd love to hear how you approached scoring certain moments of the film.

Good luck!


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## SaintDufus (Mar 11, 2015)

jmiliad @ Wed Mar 11 said:


> I am personally not really fond of composition competitions in general.



Why not?


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## Neifion (Mar 11, 2015)

I participated as well. I thought it was a blast!

Chris, it's a shame that you received such short feedback, and I certainly hope they've improved on that aspect this year. Although, for me, the reward was more of the experience of discovering how I plan, approach, and execute the score. The fact that the director-composer relationship wasn't there just added to the challenge (and also the freedom!) Come to a shot, ask "what's the emotion here? What sort of instruments, harmonies, etc. will get that across? How do the emotions change, how can I create an emotional bridge between the beginning and end", etc. In some ways it was like putting on the hats of both a director and a composer; I found it a pretty cool perspective.  It's not what happens often in the real world, unless you have a director who gives you a lot of freedom for your interpretation, but as an exercise conveying emotions musically through picture, it was worth it for me.

Also, what's nice about a competition like this is that everyone works with the same film, so we'll eventually get to see what other people did, how it differs from our own, perhaps learn some new things from that as well.


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## Black Light Recordings (Mar 23, 2015)

sekkosiki @ Wed Mar 11 said:


> I participated in it this year. I had so much fun composing, and the animation was so inspiring and well made. It was the very first time I've ever composed to a film, so I won't probably get high ranking in it, but as an experience it was worth it. Can't wait to hear others' pieces.



I participated this year and had a blast. I made it an exercise for myself and set my own deadline of two days to simulate working under a time constraint. I even managed to squeeze in foly and fx along with having my kids add vocal work. 

If anything, it gives you a quality piece of animation to add to your reel. You get out of the experience what you put it. Need more work with a director.... Give the film to a friend before you see it. Have them play the "role" of a director and take your cues from them. As long as you are writing, I don't think it's a waist. MHO. No disrespect to the guys who found it "a complete waist of time".


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## SaintDufus (Mar 25, 2015)

> I participated as well. I thought it was a blast!
> 
> Chris, it's a shame that you received such short feedback, and I certainly hope they've improved on that aspect this year. Although, for me, the reward was more of the experience of discovering how I plan, approach, and execute the score. The fact that the director-composer relationship wasn't there just added to the challenge (and also the freedom!) Come to a shot, ask "what's the emotion here? What sort of instruments, harmonies, etc. will get that across? How do the emotions change, how can I create an emotional bridge between the beginning and end", etc. In some ways it was like putting on the hats of both a director and a composer; I found it a pretty cool perspective. Smile It's not what happens often in the real world, unless you have a director who gives you a lot of freedom for your interpretation, but as an exercise conveying emotions musically through picture, it was worth it for me.
> 
> Also, what's nice about a competition like this is that everyone works with the same film, so we'll eventually get to see what other people did, how it differs from our own, perhaps learn some new things from that as well.




Hi Matthew, thanks for sharing your experience.

I agree with everything you said, and I'm glad you had a good experience and learned from it.

Good luck in the competition--I look forward to seeing your scored film!


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## SaintDufus (Mar 25, 2015)

Black Light Recordings @ Mon Mar 23 said:


> sekkosiki @ Wed Mar 11 said:
> 
> 
> > I participated in it this year. I had so much fun composing, and the animation was so inspiring and well made. It was the very first time I've ever composed to a film, so I won't probably get high ranking in it, but as an experience it was worth it. Can't wait to hear others' pieces.
> ...



Hey Black Light Recordings (hereafter referred to as BLR), 

Your post is interesting to me, for two reasons in particular:

1) *You set yourself a deadline of two days.* Am I right in interpreting this to mean you gave yourself just _two days_ to score the entire film?

If so, that is quite a tight deadline indeed! I must say that, although I completed the entire "first draft" of my score within the first couple of weeks (because the musical ideas flowed quite organically), I wound up using the entire two months for polishing and last-minute adjustments.

2) *You recruited your kids to do vocal work.* Awesome!  I'm guessing they mostly did "squeals" and other inarticulate noises? Or did they do actual speech?

I'm also interested to know what kinds of foley effects you did. 

For sound effects, I used mostly musical instruments (such as the guiro to simulate "stretching" sounds), but I also added a few "cartoony" sound effects, like a champagne cork and a slide whistle.

Good luck in the judging, BLR!


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## Black Light Recordings (Mar 28, 2015)

SaintDufus @ Wed Mar 25 said:


> Black Light Recordings @ Mon Mar 23 said:
> 
> 
> > sekkosiki @ Wed Mar 11 said:
> ...



St.Dufus

Thanks, good luck to you as well. The time thing I did for two reasons. One; I've got a 9 to 5 plus two kids so time is valuable (as it is for everyone) so that was just practical. Plus my main man Mike Verta always preaches being fast so figured why not. I outlined and drafted it from 7am to about 2pm; took the kids sledding the tweaked and made some re-writes from 9pm to about 2 am. I woke up the next morning tweaked the mix and locked it down. Everything else came latter. 

The kids did do inarticulate work as you suggested and I added the fx. They were mostly paper folding and tearing FX plus some wind, nothing major.


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## Lassi Tani (May 16, 2015)

So how did it went? I'd like to hear, if someone here was selected to the 10 finalists. I wasn't selected, which wasn't a huge disappointment. I'll definitely join next year too, and try not to have cliched parts in my track, as one the reviewers commented :D.


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## Black Light Recordings (May 25, 2015)

Sekkosiki

I didn't make it either but that's not a surprise. I did however get some useful feedback, along with some useless feedback that actually contradicted itself. The main thing for me was that the piece didn't suck. At that point it is just a mater of taste and not competency. You can make some great rocky road ice cream but if the customer wants vanilla, you are out of luck. I think I wrote a good piece, it was just the wrong flavor. 

After the contest is over, let's post our pieces here for fun. I'd love to see what you and the other VI members did with the film.

Gharun


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## Neifion (May 25, 2015)

Didn't make it either, but most of the feedback I received was positive. It was also fairly detailed and useful, except for one judge who literally gave two-word responses. :roll: I'm definitely looking forward to posting my score and seeing what you guys think, as well as getting to see yours!


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## chibear (May 25, 2015)

When we're allowed, I'd like to add mine to the list too. There's at least one person in the other thread interested in doing so also. I got a 'summary' of comments, some of which I agreed with and others that made me wonder if I watched the same film as the jury. Most of the things I thought were going to jump up and bite me weren't mentioned whereas apparently no one thought a musical joke I inserted was very funny :roll: It was a fun project, though, and I'll probably do it next year again.


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## Black Light Recordings (Jun 15, 2015)

Hey Guys

Here's mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twby8Twusyk

Post yours when you can.

G


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## chibear (Jun 15, 2015)

Did they Cine out the release info for posting? If so I'll be up shortly. Liked your soundtrack..... 
much more positive than mine. Then again I'm old & grumpy :mrgreen:

EDIT: https://youtu.be/q6NaYfga2RY (HERE'S) mine


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## Neifion (Jun 15, 2015)

Gharun: Nice! Really like the woodwinds and your use of percussion. Some moments felt a little too low-key in certain places, such as the tornado and when she returns to the town. I feel like things could have been bigger, but that's just my taste. Really nice job.

Clyde: Really enjoyed the darker take! My favorite part was the forest; I love the jungle adventure vibe. I felt the mixing to need a bit of work; for instance, the strings and brass sounded somewhat muddy and distant, while the harp and percussion were very crisp and close. Some parts I also found a bit understated, such as when she's traveling through the vast meadow and when she comes back to her town, but I'm beginning to think I just lean towards the big and bombastic. 

Here's mine:
http://youtu.be/11xkxwKEIZQ

By the way, does anyone know if they've listed semi-finalists, or have they done away with it this year?


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## Black Light Recordings (Jun 15, 2015)

This is great to see how different composers "hear" a visual piece. 

Clyde - Great work. I would have never thought to take it there. Very dramatic and subtle. You had some space there to do a little more. My ears kept hearing something in the upper register to give personality to the dragonflies. Would have provided a great contrast to the rest of the piece.

Matt - Love the choir. Really gave motion and a "wonder" quality to the journey.

Thanks for sharing guys.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jun 15, 2015)

Neifion @ Tue 16 Jun said:


> By the way, does anyone know if they've listed semi-finalists, or have they done away with it this year?



All finalists' submissions here: http://cine.org/hamlischcontest/

Lets not be _too_ bitter about the result. :wink:


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## Neifion (Jun 15, 2015)

Black Light Recordings @ Mon Jun 15 said:


> Matt - Love the choir. Really gave motion and a "wonder" quality to the journey.



Thanks Gharun!



Jdiggity1 @ Mon Jun 15 said:


> Neifion @ Tue 16 Jun said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, does anyone know if they've listed semi-finalists, or have they done away with it this year?
> ...



Ah, they have it up now. I must have checked back when they were still formatting the page.

I guess they've gone from having 5 finalists and 5-6 semi-finalists to simply having 11 finalists. Was kind of hoping they would do 11 finalists and 11 semi-finalists this year.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jun 16, 2015)

My submission: https://vimeo.com/130851558

Was a bit late to start this one. Scored in 2 and a half days.
It's great seeing everyone's interpretation!


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## Lassi Tani (Jun 16, 2015)

*Gharun*: The beginning is wonderful! I like the sad feeling in the beginning and the change from sad to happy. You did well in creating themes and repeating and developing themes. Your score makes me smile, it's wild and different! Btw, we had quite similar ideas for the forest and hurricane.

*Clyde*: Interesting hybrid score! I loved the beginning! I would have maybe tried to connect the start of the forest with more instruments than just cymbals. Also the hurricane comes a bit abrupt without any hurricane related sounds. So all in all, maybe connecting the parts better would have helped. Mixing could have been a bit better. But you used dark colors in the music well. I like the dark side of the score.

*Matt*: Yes the choir is used really well! And you prepared the listener well to changes in the picture, e.g from fields to forest. I love how you use brass in the forest and hurricane scene. I agree, the theme could be repeated more here, which is a challenge because the animation is very short. The dragonflies could have had a sound in the field part. Mixing sounds very good. Interesting solution in the end, when the text "This place was not for Emma" comes. Really subtle change after the massive theme. Works well!

*Jayden*: Really good score in 2 days only! Memorable theme, and I like how you repeat it with different instruments. I like the moving music in the fields scene with the fast strings and woodwinds. The strings in hurricane part could have been a bit louder. On the other hand I have them too loud in my score :D. Wow, you caught her turning head even! At 1:36. Wonderful! All in all, very good score!

Here's mine: https://youtu.be/p2ySZtInzxQ

At least the winner is very different from what you guys or me composed. I guess mine was too traditional. Here's the feedback I got:

*Strengths*
Enjoy the rhythmic play in the score, the “dancing” at 1’15”, for instance. Some nice use of color throughout.

*Weaknesses*
Clichéd falling at 1’40”–be careful not to use “stock” material, but to massage and make each moment your own. Look at the drama at the ending with the ripping of the word, and try to match this drama with your soundtrack.

*Strengths*
The strength of this score were the little detail things like sounds that were attached to the characters movements i.e. the harp when the character did a spin in the balloon. The chromatic line at the fall was very effective. The revisit of the main theme was good to hear near the end! Great support of the action in the film. The desperation in holding on before the fall was felt.

*Weaknesses*
No real faults


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## Black Light Recordings (Jun 16, 2015)

Wow!

You guys are all so talented. I haven't heard one that I didn't like.

Jay - that four note motif is brilliant and brilliantly used. I especially like how you captured the movement of the dragonflies.

Lassi - I love the use of the solo violin after the girl breaks through the clouds. I would have never thought of that.


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## Lassi Tani (Jun 16, 2015)

Thanks Gharun! It's interesting to see how people interpreted the scenes differently.

It would be interesting to read the feedback the winner got. I'm not feeling bitter, but just curious.. :D


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## Jdiggity1 (Jun 17, 2015)

Thanks for the kind words Gharun and Lassi!
And thanks also for sharing your submissions too.
In my mind, we are all winners!  o=?


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