# 3/4 time is a kind of swing, at least for me. When did you last composed in 3/4 time?



## germancomponist (Feb 20, 2015)

The waltz, the 3/4 time is for me a kind of swing. Very much alive, moving. 

When did you last composed in 3/4 time?


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## dinerdog (Feb 20, 2015)

If you count 6/8, then two days ago. Before that? I don't know.


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## germancomponist (Feb 20, 2015)

A good example for sure is this:


Listen how the feel changes when the 3/4 comes in ... .


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## Daryl (Feb 20, 2015)

dinerdog @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> If you count 6/8, then two days ago. Before that? I don't know.


6/8 is a compound duple time sig; 3/4 is a simple triple. They are not the same. Unless you think of the 6/8 as 2 x 3/8, of course. :wink: 

To the OP, I would say that many of my tracks are in 3/4 or sometimes 3/2. However, fewer of them are waltzes than other things.

D


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## germancomponist (Feb 20, 2015)

Daryl @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> dinerdog @ Sat Feb 21 said:
> 
> 
> > If you count 6/8, then two days ago. Before that? I don't know.
> ...



Cool, Daryl!


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## wst3 (Feb 20, 2015)

for the last three months!

My last project was music for a theatrical production of A.R. Gurney's "The Snow Ball" - I had to write a lot of waltzes! It was fun!


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## Daryl (Feb 20, 2015)

germancomponist @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> Daryl @ Sat Feb 21 said:
> 
> 
> > dinerdog @ Sat Feb 21 said:
> ...


Here's an example of a track that whilst it possibly has a kind of swing, it is certainly not a waltz.

https://soundcloud.com/maestrodaz/count ... ty/s-XMmjL

D


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## germancomponist (Feb 20, 2015)

Daryl @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> Here's an example of a track that whilst it possibly has a kind of swing, it is certainly not a waltz.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/maestrodaz/count ... ty/s-XMmjL
> 
> D



So nice! Thanks for sharing, Daryl!


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## madbulk (Feb 20, 2015)

Kind of swing, how?


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## germancomponist (Feb 20, 2015)

madbulk @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> Kind of swing, how?



Visit a german beer tent and "schunkel"! :mrgreen:


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## Daryl (Feb 20, 2015)

madbulk @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> Kind of swing, how?


By virtue of syncopation, not by any kind of groove.

D


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## Daryl (Feb 20, 2015)

germancomponist @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> Daryl @ Sat Feb 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Here's an example of a track that whilst it possibly has a kind of swing, it is certainly not a waltz.
> ...


Glad you like it.

D


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## Hannes_F (Feb 20, 2015)

Very nice Daryl, love it!


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## AR (Feb 21, 2015)

I don't write in 3/4 but 6/8 or 12/8 which are both kind of "3/4 - 4/4" hybrids, I very much do. Nothing beats a fast pacing drive of a 6/8 or 12/8 count in a action scene. Nothing. Nada. I tried everything 7/8, 5/8, 11/8, 4/4, nothing can beat the drive.


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## Arbee (Feb 21, 2015)

Daryl @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> Here's an example of a track that whilst it possibly has a kind of swing, it is certainly not a waltz.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/maestrodaz/count ... ty/s-XMmjL
> 
> D


Beautiful Daryl, thanks for sharing.

.


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## Christof (Feb 21, 2015)

I posted this some time ago,

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41213


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## Saxer (Feb 21, 2015)

Daryl @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> Here's an example of a track that whilst it possibly has a kind of swing, it is certainly not a waltz.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/maestrodaz/count ... ty/s-XMmjL
> 
> D


yepp, beautiful!


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## Vlzmusic (Feb 21, 2015)

As a music student, I was told to treat time signatures as ways to transcribe what you hear inside, and not to write by them. Usually there are at least 2 ways to transcribe each piece of music in different time signatures - depends on interpretation and chosen accents.


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## AC986 (Feb 21, 2015)

Wow Daryl that was a rare treat!

I generally do a lot of tracks in 3/4 or 6/8. I tend to think in dotted crotchets, so I almost get a hybrid 2/4 feel in my head.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 21, 2015)

My first sequencer was a Yamaha QX-21, which could only edit whole bars. So I recorded everything in 1/4.

After a few weeks I pretty much stopped hearing things in even meters - almost everything I wrote was asymmetrical.


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## Daryl (Feb 21, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> My first sequencer was a Yamaha QX-21, which could only edit whole bars. So I recorded everything in 1/4.
> 
> After a few weeks I pretty much stopped hearing things in even meters - almost everything I wrote was asymmetrical.


That can be a very good plan. I've worked for film composers who write everything in 1/8, and leave it up to the orchestrator how to re-bar things. Actually I've worked for people who don't even switch the click on, but that's a whole other ball game. :wink: 

D


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## zacnelson (Feb 21, 2015)

AR @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> I don't write in 3/4 but 6/8 or 12/8 which are both kind of "3/4 - 4/4" hybrids, I very much do. Nothing beats a fast pacing drive of a 6/8 or 12/8 count in a action scene. Nothing. Nada. I tried everything 7/8, 5/8, 11/8, 4/4, nothing can beat the drive.



Would you be able to post some examples? It's very interesting to a non-trained person like myself!


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## AC986 (Feb 22, 2015)

zacnelson @ Sat Feb 21 said:


> Would you be able to post some examples? It's very interesting to a non-trained person like myself!



This one is thought of in dotted crotchets. 1 2, 1 2, 1 2, not 123123, 123123, etc. But it's in 6/8 time, not 2/4 time.

https://soundcloud.com/adrian-cook-79/t ... of-numbers


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## zacnelson (Feb 22, 2015)

That's great track Adrian, I could totally imagine that in a film, it has a real personality to it


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## AC986 (Feb 23, 2015)

That's very kind of you Zac, but I would swap it for Daryl's. :lol: 

It was just trying to make a point about 6/8 versus 3/4 versus 2/4 etc and the way time signatures don't really matter that much when you're thinking more in terms of rythmn and beats in your head.


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## Rob (Feb 23, 2015)

adriancook @ 23rd February 2015 said:


> That's very kind of you Zac, but I would swap it for Daryl's. :lol:
> 
> It was just trying to make a point about 6/8 versus 3/4 versus 2/4 etc and the way time signatures don't really matter that much when you're thinking more in terms of rythmn and beats in your head.



But to me time signatures do have their own "groove", they tend to influence and give music a certain way of moving... you can choose to confirm that tendency or build against it, but it's still there, in my opinion.


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## Justus (Feb 23, 2015)

I find myself using a lot 6/8 or 6/4 meters, especially when writing fantasy/battle stuff.
It just flows nicely and keeps you more on the edge of your seat than 4/4. But I can't remember using a swingy 3/4 meter.


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## AC986 (Feb 23, 2015)

Rob @ Mon Feb 23 said:


> adriancook @ 23rd February 2015 said:
> 
> 
> > That's very kind of you Zac, but I would swap it for Daryl's. :lol:
> ...



Yes indeed Rob. I am slightly surprised though in your case. Only very slightly. You, being extremely adept at jazz, I would have thought the groove came first, as opposed to the numbers.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Feb 23, 2015)

Lovely Daryl!


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## Rob (Feb 23, 2015)

adriancook @ 23rd February 2015 said:



> Rob @ Mon Feb 23 said:
> 
> 
> > adriancook @ 23rd February 2015 said:
> ...



hehe but time signatures "are" the groove  here's a piece in 3/4 I just finished arranging, to confirm that I'm still adept at jazz...

http://www.robertosoggetti.com/Pietro/Vicenza/Elm.mp3


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## artsoundz (Feb 23, 2015)

Wow, Rob
Sounds live of course- but knowing it's you, not sure if it's samples or what. 
Now I'm both inspired and depressed.


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## AC986 (Feb 23, 2015)

Sounds 123 great Rob!


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## Rob (Feb 23, 2015)

artsoundz @ 23rd February 2015 said:


> Wow, Rob
> Sounds live of course- but knowing it's you, not sure if it's samples or what.
> Now I'm both inspired and depressed.



 all samples of course, it's the mp3 I have just sent to the ensemble which will perform it, together with seven more pieces... thank you art!


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## Rob (Feb 23, 2015)

adriancook @ 23rd February 2015 said:


> Sounds 123 great Rob!



thank you Adrian!


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## zacnelson (Feb 23, 2015)

Rob your jazz track is phenomenal


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## germancomponist (Feb 23, 2015)

zacnelson @ Mon Feb 23 said:


> Rob your jazz track is phenomenal



I agree! Very nice, Rob!

Another question: Why is 3/4 never heared in modern pop productions? What do you think is the reason?


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## zacnelson (Feb 23, 2015)

Please forgive me for my complete ignorance, but could any of you listen to a small section of this song of mine and tell me whether it's 3/4 or 6/8 or some other time signature?

https://soundcloud.com/zacnelson/indestructible


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## Patrick de Caumette (Feb 23, 2015)

Very cool Rob, I dig it!
I hope that you'll get a nice recording of the live performance!


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## Patrick de Caumette (Feb 23, 2015)

Gunther, I think that I understand what you are trying to say.
In a way, a triplet feel IS swing.
But 3/4 doesn't necessarily imply that, as we can hear with Daryl's piece...


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## Rob (Feb 23, 2015)

zacnelson @ 23rd February 2015 said:


> Please forgive me for my complete ignorance, but could any of you listen to a small section of this song of mine and tell me whether it's 3/4 or 6/8 or some other time signature?
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/zacnelson/indestructible



Zac, I'd write this in 6/8 or 6/4 time, they're basically the same. Nice song, btw!


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## Rob (Feb 23, 2015)

Patrick de Caumette @ 23rd February 2015 said:


> Very cool Rob, I dig it!
> I hope that you'll get a nice recording of the live performance!



Thank you, Patrick, I hope so!


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## zacnelson (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks Rob, I didn't even know 6/4 was a time signature, great to know! I had a feeling I wasn't in 3/4, I appreciate you taking the time to listen and inform me. 

I'm currently in the middle of completing a new recording of the song with a more contemporary arrangement, less bombastic, more intimate and folksy. Should have it done this week!

By the way, was the saxophone real on your jazz track? If not, what did you use for that and the other horns?


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## Daryl (Feb 23, 2015)

Quick OT. A composer I used to orchestrate for always used to write waltzes in 6/4 and it took me a while to realise that as I was being paid by the bar, he was getting the cue half price. :evil: 

D


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## Rob (Feb 23, 2015)

They're all samplemodeling, but for the flutes...
Actually, 6/4 isn't that different from 3/4, it's just two 3/4 coupled...


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## Rob (Feb 23, 2015)

Daryl @ 23rd February 2015 said:


> Quick OT. A composer I used to orchestrate for always used to write waltzes in 6/4 and it took me a while to realise that as I was being paid by the bar, he was getting the cue half price. :evil:
> 
> D



Hahaha really? Homage to the man's inventiveness


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## Daryl (Feb 23, 2015)

Rob @ Tue Feb 24 said:


> Daryl @ 23rd February 2015 said:
> 
> 
> > Quick OT. A composer I used to orchestrate for always used to write waltzes in 6/4 and it took me a while to realise that as I was being paid by the bar, he was getting the cue half price. :evil:
> ...


Yeah, that wasn't what passed through my head.

Conversely, someone I know who used to a staff composer fro Granada TV (when there were such things) told me that there was a lady whose sole job was to count barlines in scores and then pay the composers/arrangers the correct money. He said that everything was in 2/4...! :lol: 

D


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## pkm (Feb 23, 2015)

Rob @ Mon Feb 23 said:


> They're all samplemodeling, but for the flutes...
> Actually, 6/4 isn't that different from 3/4, it's just two 3/4 coupled...



AFAIK, traditionally, 6/4 is used as a 4+2/4 or 2+4/4, not so much 3+3/4.


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## iaink (Feb 23, 2015)

Here is an orchestral piece in 3/4:

https://soundcloud.com/iainkelso/fantasy


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## iaink (Feb 23, 2015)

zacnelson @ Mon Feb 23 said:


> Please forgive me for my complete ignorance, but could any of you listen to a small section of this song of mine and tell me whether it's 3/4 or 6/8 or some other time signature?
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/zacnelson/indestructible



In 6/8 it would be ~ballad tempo of about 50 bpm. In 3/4 it's 150 bpm.

Really nice work btw.


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## zacnelson (Feb 23, 2015)

Thank you Ian, I can't imagine a better compliment… your track `Releasing The Mustangs', which I first heard years ago, is one of my all time favourite compositions (including virtual and real compositions)


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## Rob (Feb 24, 2015)

pkm @ 24th February 2015 said:


> Rob @ Mon Feb 23 said:
> 
> 
> > They're all samplemodeling, but for the flutes...
> ...



The most common conducting pattern in 6/4 is 3+3, with rare exceptions (like 2+2+2). 
It's basically divided the same way as 6/8


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## Daryl (Feb 24, 2015)

pkm @ Tue Feb 24 said:


> Rob @ Mon Feb 23 said:
> 
> 
> > They're all samplemodeling, but for the flutes...
> ...


No that's not correct. What you are describing is a simple time sig, whereas 6/4 is a compound time sig. You are describing 3/2.

D


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## AC986 (Feb 24, 2015)

Rob @ Tue Feb 24 said:


> pkm @ 24th February 2015 said:
> 
> 
> > Rob @ Mon Feb 23 said:
> ...



I remember learning Rondo by Dave Brubeck years ago and the 9/8 was (2+2+2+3).


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## AC986 (Feb 24, 2015)

zacnelson @ Mon Feb 23 said:


> Please forgive me for my complete ignorance, but could any of you listen to a small section of this song of mine and tell me whether it's 3/4 or 6/8 or some other time signature?
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/zacnelson/indestructible



Excellent track! Love the singing and the underscore would be great for someone like me. Haha!

3/4 or 6/8.


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## AC986 (Feb 24, 2015)

Daryl @ Mon Feb 23 said:


> Quick OT. A composer I used to orchestrate for always used to write waltzes in 6/4 and it took me a while to realise that as I was being paid by the bar, he was getting the cue half price. :evil:
> 
> D



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## zacnelson (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks Adrian, I'm glad you like it! What do you mean regarding the underscore? Do you mean that you like having tracks to sing over, or do you compose a lot of underscores or something?


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## AC986 (Feb 24, 2015)

zacnelson @ Tue Feb 24 said:


> Thanks Adrian, I'm glad you like it! What do you mean regarding the underscore? Do you mean that you like having tracks to sing over, or do you compose a lot of underscores or something?



My pleasure.

No Zac, the underscore is great for a certain type of library genre. I don't do vocals actually because I suck on ice, but I could take the underscore, especially the sort of thing at the beginning and make a happy major key library track that would probably do quite well.

Of course, in all seriousness I wouldn't do that because I don't steal or copy. It's just the way I think when I hear certain things. Quite common among the lib fraternity I suspect.


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## zacnelson (Feb 24, 2015)

That's great advice Adrian! I'd love to know what libraries you are a part of, and if you could recommend a direction for me to go with that. The reason is that I have almost finished the new version of Indestructible, and I have already decided to turn the backing track into an instrumental, I suppose I will have to shorten it a little and perhaps add some little extra colours. So it seems we were both thinking along the same lines!


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## germancomponist (Feb 25, 2015)

Patrick de Caumette @ Mon Feb 23 said:


> Gunther, I think that I understand what you are trying to say.
> In a way, a triplet feel IS swing.
> But 3/4 doesn't necessarily imply that, as we can hear with Daryl's piece...



Yes, Patrick. Maybe it is more the "feeling" what I can create with 3/4? Not so easy to explain but I think you got it, what I meant ... . o/~


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## Living Fossil (Mar 2, 2015)

I use a lot of measures with a 3 in it. And i would say there are lots of different ways to use those measures. As Christof pointed out (in the linked thread) the Viennese Walz is written in 3/4, but the performed "groove" is really complex, if one tries to analyze it in a mathematical sense.

Below are two pieces in 3/4 from my last score, and i think they are quite different from each other... 


https://soundcloud.com/sfriedrich/frozen

https://soundcloud.com/sfriedrich/guysfeminism


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## germancomponist (Mar 2, 2015)

They are, SFriedrich, but for my taste the 3/4 has something special ... .


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## Living Fossil (Mar 2, 2015)

...it's interesting that some centuries ago (in Europe) measures with 3 were considered as "tempus perfectum", while the division in 2 was "imperfect". Of course it had to do with religious aspects [holy trinity], but nevertheless it indicates a high musical relevance.

...what i think is really interesting are formal aspects, where not 2 paired phrases are used, but 3. As long as a 3/4 takes part in a structure that's otherwise based on 4, 8 bars etc. it's rather a "feeling" of subdivision. But when you work with bigger units of 3 (3 times 3 bars etc.) things get increasingly interesting.


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## germancomponist (Mar 2, 2015)

Let me describe it differently. 3/4 feels like lighter, floating, enchanting .... ?

Oh no, I can't desribe it well ... . o/~


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## Living Fossil (Mar 2, 2015)

germancomponist @ Mon Mar 02 said:


> Let me describe it differently. 3/4 feels like lighter, floating, enchanting .... ?



well, i totally agree 

It's maybe because as quasi-symmetrical beings with two legs even measures somehow implicate movement by feet... So 3 somehow make you fly. 

(it's a somehow a good thing that it's not really possible to describe music with words...)


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## germancomponist (Mar 2, 2015)

Living Fossil @ Tue Mar 03 said:


> (it's a somehow a good thing that it's not really possible to describe music with words...)



Maybe ... .


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