# How do I go about a "Dark Knight" adaptation?



## Guido Negraszus (Jul 7, 2013)

Hello fellow artists!

I started this 2 years ago. I studied a few of my favourite film scores (Hans Zimmer, John Barry, Alan Silvestri) and re-created them in my DAW, simply in order to learn and improve my skills.

However, with The Dark Knight it developed into something of my own. I was working on it on and off over the last 2 years and would like to release it on my next album. Initially I wanted to license it via Limelight but then I realised that I wasn't sure "what" to license because this new version does not exist in this form by Zimmer or Howard.

I would describe it a adaptation since it has a little of the Dark Knight tune (but only parts), a little of the chord progression (again, only parts) but then again it is not exactly a copy or remake. 

Any tips and suggestions would be welcome. http://soundcloud.com/guido-negraszus/the-dark-knight-adaptation


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## MaestroRage (Jul 7, 2013)

I can definitely hea the Dark Knight feel. It's a fantastic track though. I don't see why you couldn't release this. It's similar but not what i'd consider "dangerously" close.


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## pkm (Jul 7, 2013)

For what it's worth, it is absolutely too close for comfort for me based on the music alone. That, plus the fact that you specifically said it has parts of TDK in it and that it is an adaptation makes it no question a derivative work. There is no doubt that you will need a license to release this. Because it's been "substantially changed" and not just a "cover" version, you will need permission from the copyright holder to release it.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jul 7, 2013)

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## MarkS_Comp (Jul 7, 2013)

vibrato @ Sun Jul 07 said:


> its poorly done over all.



Completely disagree. This is well done. Have you done better?

I agree tho, that releasing this without permission will open yourself to litigation. It is way too close to the original.

Good work, tho.


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## schatzus (Jul 7, 2013)

Why don't you just ask HZ?


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jul 7, 2013)

...


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## olajideparis (Jul 7, 2013)

Well, if the idea was an exercise in getting as close to the style as you could I'd say you pretty much nailed it but yeah def do NOT release it's you did such a good job that it could easily be mistaken for the original score or another work of Hans'.

Also this will probably sound crazy but, I think being original is overrated, unless you are at the very top there will be few paying situations where you are called upon for "your voice," more often than not a client will reference a composition by a composer much more successful than you so it's really important that you be able to get in the ballpark of that sound whilst keeping yourself and client out of legal trouble.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jul 7, 2013)

olajideparis @ Mon Jul 08 said:


> Well, if the idea was an exercise in getting as close to the style as you could I'd say you pretty much nailed it but yeah def do NOT release it's you did such a good job that it could easily be mistaken for the original score or another work of Hans'.
> 
> Also this will probably sound crazy but, I think being original is overrated, unless you are at the very top there will be few paying situations where you are called upon for "your voice," more often than not a client will reference a composition by a composer much more successful than you so it's really important that you be able to get in the ballpark of that sound whilst keeping yourself and client out of legal trouble.




In my experience, this is not true at all. It starts right at the bottom. Right at the start. But our experiences may differ! 

As an exercise, yes a nice effort for sure but Guido, definitely be original and find your own voice - with enough thought and practice, you will!

John Williams or Hans Zimmer were not making crappy music until they got their big break! They got their big break precisely because they were doing something different.


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## Guido Negraszus (Jul 7, 2013)

Thank your for your feedback. Just to clarify: I am an original artist with over 500 tracks to my account. I never licensed a track before. It was not my intention to release this track without the permission of the copyright owner. My question was how to go about it. Normally if you license a track for a cover version it's quite clear because you basically copying "a" particular track. But in my case the track in this form does not exist so I'm not sure how to license this. I was just hoping that someone around here has done something similar before. Maybe I just license "A Dark Knight" (which was my reference track) anyway, just to be on the safe side.


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## dcoscina (Jul 7, 2013)

MarkS_Comp @ Sun Jul 07 said:


> vibrato @ Sun Jul 07 said:
> 
> 
> > its poorly done over all.
> ...



Listen to his SoundCloud page. He's got some serious chops dude.


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## dcoscina (Jul 7, 2013)

olajideparis @ Sun Jul 07 said:


> Also this will probably sound crazy but, I think being original is overrated,.



Sure, let's perpetuate the homogeneity further shall we? Or heaven forbid a composer look towards other sources outside Hollywood composers like say Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Bach, Bartok, Ligeti, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Tangerine Dream, Duke Ellington, Mahler, Prokofiev, John Adams, etc, etc.....

:roll:


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## olajideparis (Jul 7, 2013)

I gotta jump in and defend Guido here, the track is well produced and true to form. Whether or not you like the fact that he created a derivative work is your choice to make but don't diss the guy. He's clearly got a good ear and some solid digital orchestration chops.


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## olajideparis (Jul 7, 2013)

To answer your original question one way to go about releasing the track might be to call it "A Dark Knight Tribute - Music inspired by the Hans Zimmer" that with the combination of some clearance from the publisher ought to put you in the clear. When you do a verbatim cover of a song it tends to be fairly easy to get a license to do a new recording however when you create a derivative work, the situation gets a bit different.


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## Daniel James (Jul 7, 2013)

By any chanse did you watch my video about those spic patterns back in the day? sounds like a few sections of this track are lifted right from it haha. Pretty good production overall, although it could use some tightning up (to my Zimmer loving ears haha)

If you want to release it you would almost certainly have to get the permission from the copyright holder to do so.....stating that it was indeed an adaptation here you couldn't just release it now and say its not a copy. 

If you do indeed get the permission from the copyrighter I think you can release your own cover version however I have no idea what that contract looks like personally (I havn't sold any cover albums) however I believe there are a few different types. Firstly you shouldn't expect much in the way of royalties, they go to the people specified in the royalty agreement (IE composer) .
I have heard of some contracts that require a percentage split on sales of that track.

In all its a big hassle and I am sure there are plenty of people here who can correct all the shit I just said. But you should start looking for the rights holder first and contact them. I don't see it being out of the realm of possibility.

-DJ


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## Guido Negraszus (Jul 7, 2013)

That's a good idea. "A Dark Knight Tribute" is probably a good description about what I did with this track. If you listen to the original then it becomes quite clear that its not a cover but there are original Zimmer ideas in my version what makes it a bit complicated I guess. 

When you think about it its a bit like book authors writing a book and then using original quotations from other authors. They simply reference them at the bottom of the page or at the end of the book. Pity, it's not that simple in music.


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## Guido Negraszus (Jul 7, 2013)

HaHa Daniel! You know what? You are right. I did see your video a few years ago. I totally forgot about it.  I remember at the time (2011) when I was searching around Hans Zimmer arrangements that I came across your video. So should I go and license it from you after all...?


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## Daniel James (Jul 7, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ Sun Jul 07 said:


> HaHa Daniel! You know what? You are right. I did see your video a few years ago. I totally forgot about it.  I remember at the time (2011) when I was searching around Hans Zimmer arrangements that I came across your video. So should I go and license it from you after all...?



Haha TECHNICALLY my video track wasn't a direct copy so could be a considered an original work I guess BUT I don't want to be a cunt about it haha cause we all know where the ideas came from so I would say you should still seek the license agreement from the copyright holder.

-DJ


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## MarkS_Comp (Jul 7, 2013)

dcoscina @ Sun Jul 07 said:


> MarkS_Comp @ Sun Jul 07 said:
> 
> 
> > vibrato @ Sun Jul 07 said:
> ...



Yeah - we all have chops, dude. So what?


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## olajideparis (Jul 7, 2013)

Seriously dude...?


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## Guido Negraszus (Jul 7, 2013)

Ok, changed the track on SC to "Tribute" so its clearer and can't be misunderstood.


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## TheUnfinished (Jul 8, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ Mon Jul 08 said:


> When you think about it its a bit like book authors writing a book and then using original quotations from other authors. They simply reference them at the bottom of the page or at the end of the book. Pity, it's not that simple in music.


I'd say your work is more like writing a sequel using the characters and settings of the original book. And therefore, as many have already said, you need to speak with the publishers/whoever owns the rights to the Batman soundtracks.

It might be more hassle than it's worth in reality, but nice interpretation!


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## gsilbers (Jul 8, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ Sun Jul 07 said:


> Hello fellow artists!
> 
> I started this 2 years ago. I studied a few of my favourite film scores (Hans Zimmer, John Barry, Alan Silvestri) and re-created them in my DAW, simply in order to learn and improve my skills.
> 
> ...



i think its a good track. 

you might want to listen to joseph trapanese's tron uprinsing since it sound a bit like it. 
well, same as anything on that style. 

i could totally see this track being used on tv. you shoulddnt have any issue with licensing it on a music production library.


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## Guido Negraszus (Jul 8, 2013)

@TheUnfinished: also valid!  Yeah I more and more tend to agree that its better to forget about it. I have plenty of new and original tracks for my new album anyway. It would be much easier to do a cover version in which case you could use services like Limelight.


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## Guido Negraszus (Jul 8, 2013)

@gsilbers: thanks. Don't know that artist but will check it out!


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## Dan Mott (Jul 8, 2013)

The piano and strings were very nice at the start.


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## Guido Negraszus (Jul 8, 2013)

Thanks Dan-Jay. And probably the only original input on my part in that track


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## Dan Mott (Jul 9, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ Tue Jul 09 said:


> Thanks Dan-Jay. And probably the only original input on my part in that track



Yup it was. I just like how you phrased it. Made a bit sad actually, which is good.


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## guitarman1960 (Jul 9, 2013)

Here's an idea, without the ostinato/spicc pattern that is instantly recognisable as The Dark Knight you have a much more original track. Why not change the ostinato pattern to make that part more original and see what that sounds like?
Plenty of modern scores use very similar spicc patterns without exactly copying the Dark Knight one.


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## Guido Negraszus (Jul 9, 2013)

HaHa, another good idea. I might actually will try this. But of course you are right about those spic. patterns I even noticed it during the last 007 movie (Thomas Newman). The "Bourne" movies also had a similar pattern. There are probably 100s like that or similar.


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## EwigWanderer (Jul 10, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ 7.10.2013 said:


> The "Bourne" movies also had a similar pattern. There are probably 100s like that or similar.



I think Bourne Identity was released in 2002? (best one IMO). But the pattern-style really got famous when Batman Begins was released.


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## Guido Negraszus (Jul 10, 2013)

Yes, that's what I mean. Who can really say when this type of pattern came alive first. But no doubt that when ever we hear this nowadays we think of HZ. He certainly created a new signature for filmscore rhythms (not to mention his drums/percussion) and I for one am grateful for it!


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