# Best mid-range 88-key controller for orchestral instrumentation



## dsblais (Jun 8, 2018)

Hello. I’m seeking a good controller for strings, winds, and the like with very nice dynamic range. I have a graded hammer keyboard and cheap LX88+ already and am hoping for something more expressive for instruments like harps, violins, etc. Candidates I’ve been considering include the StudioLogic SL88 Grand or Studio, Casio PX-5S, and Keylab 88, leaning towards the SL88 primarily for the aftertouch and three-point keys.

I live far from where I could test these or other controllers first hand and would love to hear the thoughts of those who have experience with a variety of keyboards as to what they’d recommend. Thank you very much.


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## CT (Jun 8, 2018)

It's always ideal to be able to try them about before committing, but I never laid a finger on a PX-5S before getting mine, and I've been in love ever since.


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## dsblais (Jun 8, 2018)

Thanks, Mike. Would you say that the PX-5S excels more at weighted keyboard style playing or synth-type stuff?



miket said:


> It's always ideal to be able to try them about before committing, but I never laid a finger on a PX-5S before getting mine, and I've been in love ever since.


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## CT (Jun 8, 2018)

It depends on how used to weighted action you are, I guess; I'm used to real pianos and like the feeling. If you're used to springy synth keys, it'll take some getting used to, but I use it as comfortably with Zebra as with pianos or orchestral stuff.

The only thing I do is turn off the hammer response if I'm not using it to control a piano, since that just messes with your timing otherwise.


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## chimuelo (Jun 8, 2018)

PX-5S is nice. Good internal sounds too.
I use a heavy synth action Physis K4 and what makes it unique are the programmable velocity curves and custom aftertouch curves.
Not to mention incredible control of articulations w/o the need for additional software.
Everything you’ll need is already inside the unit.
You’ll have to read the manual to understand it’s capabilities.
It’s designed for hardware/software continuity.
Even the transport section can be altered for MTC, MMC, MIDI CC and remapping.


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## Quasar (Jun 8, 2018)

I've played on Privia series keyboards from Casio and even though they're feature-rich for the cost, I both more trust the build and prefer the feel of a Yamaha digital stage piano. If I had beaucoup $$$$ I would probably get a CP4 with the natural wood graded action or something akin, but as it is I found a used CP33 in great shape for under $500.

Just my 2p. Yamaha stage pianos with GH or above (not GHS, which is spongy and shallow IMHO) are great.


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## chimuelo (Jun 8, 2018)

Wasn’t this for controlling in mock ups?
If not give me a Kawai MP or RD2000.


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## dsblais (Jun 8, 2018)

chimuelo said:


> Wasn’t this for controlling in mock ups?
> If not give me a Kawai MP or RD2000.


Yes, approximately. I want to be able to "fake" playing strings, brass, etc more effectively, which for me means having good dynamic range preferably with aftertouch, the ability to do trills, 88-key range (mostly for mental simplicity, but also for split zones), and a pleasurable action.


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## chimuelo (Jun 8, 2018)

Well trills are smooth, but I use one of the many USB Ports with a Leap Motion Controller for really intricate trills that usually require a DAW.
I can trill above the Leap for super fast authentic Jean Luc Ponty/Cajun bowing techniques.
Just repeating the notes at Sample start are unacceptable.
This technique covers what the K4 or triple sensor controllers can’t duplicate.
Of course a Leap will work with any controller.
Check out the K4 manual.
But make some Coffee first.


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## dsblais (Jun 8, 2018)

I realize it's off-topic, but has anyone heard of any troubles from ordering through Thomann and having delivery to the United States? The price of the PX-5S (with shipping) seems much better there than anywhere in America: https://www.thomannmusic.com/casio_px_5s_privia_pro.htm


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## steveo42 (Jun 9, 2018)

Best is to buy local but since that's not an option I would at least buy in USA rather than overseas. Check the usual suspects for a price match. Sweetwater extends the warranty on most units for free. Also they have free shipping. GC has similar offers. These things are big and it will become a nightmare should it arrive broken or you need warranty service. Just my opinion.


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## Eloy (Jun 9, 2018)

dsblais said:


> Hello. I’m seeking a good controller for strings, winds, and the like with very nice dynamic range. I have a graded hammer keyboard and cheap LX88+ already and am hoping for something more expressive for instruments like harps, violins, etc. Candidates I’ve been considering include the StudioLogic SL88 Grand or Studio, Casio PX-5S, and Keylab 88, leaning towards the SL88 primarily for the aftertouch and three-point keys.
> 
> I live far from where I could test these or other controllers first hand and would love to hear the thoughts of those who have experience with a variety of keyboards as to what they’d recommend. Thank you very much.



Interesting topic - I too own a LX88+ and love it more as each day on. Why? Because I used to use an RD2000 (expensive) which has a beautiful keyboard (sensitivity,feel,etc...) and is great for playing piano. However I had always noticed a certain amount of latency - especially with fast tempos using string libraries. Once I moved to the LX88+ the latency dissapeared. I know that the LX88+ keyboard does not have the same hammer action, but my work flow is better(and the options of controlling midi cc).
Thank you,
Eloy


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## Quasar (Jun 9, 2018)

Eloy said:


> Interesting topic - ...an RD2000 (expensive) which has a beautiful keyboard (sensitivity,feel,etc...) and is great for playing piano. However I had always noticed a certain amount of latency - especially with fast tempos using string libraries. Once I moved to the LX88+ the latency dissapeared...
> Thank you,
> Eloy



A noticeable latency change when using a different MIDI keyboard? I've never heard of anything like that. AFAIK, your latency is the product of your audio interface, drivers and buffer settings...


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## EvilDragon (Jun 9, 2018)

Well, it is not impossible - it all depends on the microcontroller used in the MIDI controller, which converts all the scanned keyboard data into MIDI events to the outside world... But usually this is not a problem with today's MIDI controllers.


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## steveo42 (Jun 9, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Well, it is not impossible - it all depends on the microcontroller used in the MIDI controller, which converts all the scanned keyboard data into MIDI events to the outside world... But usually this is not a problem with today's MIDI controllers.



There was a guy who recently posted in a couple of forums that his Studiologic 88 (Grand I think) had some kind of latency delay. The general consensus was that he had a defective unit. I think he ended up returning it. Personally I've never experienced this but I suppose a defect in the controller could cause it.


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## dsblais (Jun 9, 2018)

Thank you all for the helpful advice regarding this question. I ended up going with a Kawai ES110 primarily for the high quality action, but also due to the irresistible temptation (unmentioned in my original post) to pop the MIDI connection and simply work out a song on it as a piano. Thanks again!


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## Levitanus (Jun 10, 2018)

I would say that not-weighted keyboard is much better for all instruments instead of piano)
They are faster, more accurate with dynamics and releases, have not ugly return-force on release. Of course, if You are not buying Casio for 2000$)


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## dsblais (Jun 10, 2018)

Levitanus said:


> I would say that not-weighted keyboard is much better for all instruments instead of piano)
> They are faster, more accurate with dynamics and releases, have not ugly return-force on release. Of course, if You are not buying Casio for 2000$)



Yes, this seems the case although it appears surprisingly difficult to find a high quality "synth action" keyboard. Although the ES110 is weighted, its mechanism sounds quite excellent for expressive and fast playing which is the main limitation I've found with the Yamaha GH piano I've been using. From this review (https://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2017/01/Kawai-ES110-REVIEW-Digital-Piano-Portable-low-price.html), for example:

The keys feel great, move very well, and make you want to continue to play the ES110 for long periods of time...a real winner. I would consider the key action hammer weight to be _*medium-light*_ as opposed to medium or heavy. My preference is for a key action to be lighter instead of too heavy. On the ES110 keyboard my fingers just flew across the keys but those keys were still heavy enough to allow my to get good key movement and expression along with nice key control and response. So as far as I am concerned this key action is a lot of fun to play although perhaps for some people who play well and prefer a heavier key action, this one may not be for them. But for the vast majority of people out there looking for a great playing experience in this price range, the ES110 would be my choice for quick, responsive key key action that won't become fatiguing or wear you out.​If this action is, indeed, spritely and smooth I think this will hopefully be exactly what I'm looking for in terms of dynamic range and keybed feel. It probably won't be quite the action of the Kawai MP11SE, but I'm hoping it's close to that of the VPC-1, and superior to the PX-5S. Thank you for your comment!

*Edit:* I hadn't realized the ES110 had only a double sensor with its keys. I'm thrown back into uncertainty.


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## EvilDragon (Jun 10, 2018)

There hasn't been a non-weighted action that is more accurate with dynamics than a proper weighted action, as far as I'm concerned. They're all much less precise regarding dynamics than a good weighted board.


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## dsblais (Jun 10, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> There hasn't been a non-weighted action that is more accurate with dynamics than a proper weighted action, as far as I'm concerned. They're all much less precise regarding dynamics than a good weighted board.



EvilDragon, I know that you have been a proponent of the Casio PX-5S’ quality keybed. Do you feel that anything in the sub-$1500 range has surpassed this recently, such as the Kawai KDP110, Korg D1, Roland SP-30, Yamaha P-125? Thank you.


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## EvilDragon (Jun 10, 2018)

Didn't try any of those, honestly, so I'm the wrong person to ask. However none of those you listed offer you pitch/mod wheel and some knobs/sliders, which is a pretty nice thing to have.


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## Levitanus (Jun 10, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> than a* good* weighted


nobody argue with that)


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## EvilDragon (Jun 10, 2018)

You sounded a bit like you did argue about that.


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## AllanH (Jun 13, 2018)

Interestingly, the M-Audio Hammer 88 gets a good review in the most recent issue of Electronic Musician (Keyboard magazine): http://www.m-audio.com/hammer88


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## Geoff Grace (Jun 13, 2018)

AllanH said:


> Interestingly, the M-Audio Hammer 88 gets a good review in the most recent issue of Electronic Musician (Keyboard magazine): http://www.m-audio.com/hammer88


Thanks for the heads up, @AllanH! Here's a link to the review:

Keyboard | REVIEW: M-Audio Hammer 88 USB/MIDI Controller

Best,

Geoff


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 13, 2018)

Levitanus said:


> I would say that not-weighted keyboard is much better for all instruments instead of piano)
> They are faster, more accurate with dynamics and releases, have not ugly return-force on release. Of course, if You are not buying Casio for 2000$)



I don't know whether they're more accurate with dynamics - although to be honest I'm skeptical of that - but the overriding factor is the feel. There are both good and bad weighted and unweighted keyboards.

I personally use a weighted one for everything, because I find it easier to control. It's a Kurzweil K2500X, with a Fatar action that's pretty good.

Meanwhile I have two project controllers. One is a Kurzweil K250 I brought out of retirement. It needs new caps in its power supply, and its wooden weighted keyboard is outstanding.

And a friend just gave me a Kawai M8000, a weighted controller from the early days of MIDI, because he's moving out of town and has horrible arthritis that prevents him from playing. It has some bad keys, but he tells me it just needs a thorough cleaning. Will see...


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