# Sticking on Studiologic SL88 Grand keys?



## FrankIV

Has anyone here owned or used a Studiologic SL88 Grand? if so, do the keys seem to stick? when i had one the keys seemed to resist when i'd first push them, then suddenly give way, making me hit the key with higher velocity than intended. it was only noticeable when trying to play quieter passages, but was really annoying and unnatural. also the velocity response would sometimes go flat, whether i hit the keys with medium or hard force, the velocity volume would be the same. customer service claimed this was not a usual case, and perhaps it was a faulty model, but i wanted to hear some opinions.


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## Zookes

This is happening commonly on new cheap keyboards.
Stickiness means often too much glue on padding above keys or in mechanism. M-Audio is notorious for this, many now others follow this same low standards.

Studiologic uses Fatar keybeds, which is not so good of quality now. Trusted in past, maybe not so much now. Maybe you are victim of this quality dip?

If refunds are possible, it is advisable to do this. Can recommend other keyboards that do not have Fatar keybeds.


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## synthpunk

You can always try opening up the unit and using canned air to clean the contacts or as Zookes said exchange it for a new unit if possible or refund.


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## Karma

I use an SL88 but I am yet to have any issues after about 5 months of solid use. I can't see how Fatar keybeds are supposedly lesser quality now compared to a few years ago? I would maybe look into it being a faulty model. How long have you had it?


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## 5Lives

Zookes said:


> Can recommend other keyboards that do not have Fatar keybeds.



Such as? Was going to pick up the SL88 Grand. Not many folks seem to have one though.


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## BNRSound

Has anyone had experience with the SL88 Studio? As far as I know the only difference with grand is the key bed. Is it really $400 better?


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## Zookes

5Lives said:


> Such as? Was going to pick up the SL88 Grand. Not many folks seem to have one though.


Some non-Fatar I know:

Casio: PX-5s, PX-560
Kawai: VPC-1, MP7, MP11
Yamaha: CP300, CP-40, CP-1
Roland: A-88, RD-300NX, RD-800

Casio is somehow good this generation, I think. Have played and enjoyed despite plastic construction.
Currently in trial with Kawai MP11 - very close to real piano and fast action is good also for synths and repetition.

But you should not take recommendations for keyboards from online. It is very personal, the preference of key action.

So I do not like the Fatar - they feel bad to me and have many bad experiences of quality this generation - but others maybe will enjoy them very much and are luckier. Maybe you are in agreement? You must learn this for yourself with trials and testing.

EDIT: forgetten Rolands


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## Zookes

BNRSound said:


> Has anyone had experience with the SL88 Studio? As far as I know the only difference with grand is the key bed. Is it really $400 better?


Grand uses TP-40wood, Studio uses TP-100LR. I think both are very bad.

You have tried them? Do not make decisions from forum posts for this thing. You must request trials for good decisions.

Is possible to search online for Fatar keyboards in nearby shops, and you will test them there. Keybeds all feel similar if they are similar models. So Studiologic SL88 Studio feels very much like Arturia Keylab 88 - they are of the same keybeds and sensors TP-100LR.


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## FrankIV

synthpunk said:


> You can always try opening up the unit and using canned air to clean the contacts or as Zookes said exchange it for a new unit if possible or refund.



I don't own it anymore but I'll take your advice on cleaning the contacts regardless, that may be an easy fix for the future!


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## FrankIV

Karmarghh said:


> I use an SL88 but I am yet to have any issues after about 5 months of solid use. I can't see how Fatar keybeds are supposedly lesser quality now compared to a few years ago? I would maybe look into it being a faulty model. How long have you had it?



Yea I've returned it. I think it may have been faulty because it was also doing that weird velocity problem. It was almost like hitting a volume ceiling for no reason. You haven't had anything similar like that? I especially noticed it on piano and brass vst's usually when I repeatly hit a set of keys quickly. Example: Hit keys medium force repeatedly: 100. Hit hard force repeatedly: 100. Pause for a second. Hit keys again just once same hard force:127

Also is yours a grand or studio?


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## FrankIV

Zookes said:


> Grand uses TP-40wood, Studio uses TP-100LR. I think both are very bad.
> 
> You have tried them? Do not make decisions from forum posts for this thing. You must request trials for good decisions.
> 
> Is possible to search online for Fatar keyboards in nearby shops, and you will test them there. Keybeds all feel similar if they are similar models. So Studiologic SL88 Studio feels very much like Arturia Keylab 88 - they are of the same keybeds and sensors TP-100LR.





5Lives said:


> Such as? Was going to pick up the SL88 Grand. Not many folks seem to have one though.





BNRSound said:


> Has anyone had experience with the SL88 Studio? As far as I know the only difference with grand is the key bed. Is it really $400 better?



Zookes brings up a point i feel is a warning i should implore you to heed. You have to be very careful with comparing different types brand keyboards with similar keybeds, because the information is usually more vague than it should be.

Example: A Doepfer LMK4+ uses a fatar tp/40gh keybed. A kurzweil pc3k8 uses a fatar tp/40L. Both will usually just say tp/40 on most websites, but they feel completely different. The doepfer has a much lighter balanced feel (nicer imo). The kurzweil feels heavier. Stickier. Though, my kurzweil was used, and this is only my experience. So zookes is also 100% right that you should not base opinions just from forums, they just simply help for comparing.


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## FrankIV

Zookes said:


> Casio: PX-5s, PX-560
> Kawai: VPC-1, MP7, MP11
> Yamaha: CP300, CP-40, CP-1
> Roland: A-88, RD-300NX, RD-800



I'm liking the yamaha cp-40. I've been looking for something with a really nice keybed, minimal controls with a flat top like that so I could align it with my desk/keep my equipment close on top of it. Have you tried the cp-40 in person? I'm very curious of the velocity response/action. And if it is adjustable in any way.

The other option I've considered removing an sl88 grand or doepfer lmk4+'s keybed and control and directly installing them into a custom desk. But thats alot of commitment to a board, and I'd chose not to if another non removable board worked better


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## Karma

FrankIV said:


> Yea I've returned it. I think it may have been faulty because it was also doing that weird velocity problem. It was almost like hitting a volume ceiling for no reason. You haven't had anything similar like that? I especially noticed it on piano and brass vst's usually when I repeatly hit a set of keys quickly. Example: Hit keys medium force repeatedly: 100. Hit hard force repeatedly: 100. Pause for a second. Hit keys again just once same hard force:127
> 
> Also is yours a grand or studio?


Definitely sounds like a faulty one to me. I can't say I have ever had that issue. Did you ever change the velocity curves through the editor? I had to set mine up to something more fitting to replicate a real piano. However for brass or percussion lines that need a punch I just swap to another velocity curve so that I don't need to beat up the keys to get to the loud dynamics.

A lot of people here will sing praises for keyboards that are much more expensive, but it's best to just buy what works for you and your price range. If I had a spare £500 I would have got a Kawai or something of course, but it didn't work out like that. I still have no regrets buying my SL88 Grand. I love it!

EDIT: Saying that, I know that the LMK4+ feels amazing to play - and that is about £300 more. So it all depends on your budget.


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## 5Lives

Karmarghh said:


> EDIT: Saying that, I know that the LMK4+ feels amazing to play - and that is about £300 more. So it all depends on your budget.



Aren't they the same exact Fatar key bed though? Why would they play differently?


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## Karma

5Lives said:


> Aren't they the same exact Fatar key bed though? Why would they play differently?


Is that so? Well, that's another +1 for Fatar keybeds here then.


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## Morodiene

FrankIV said:


> I'm liking the yamaha cp-40. I've been looking for something with a really nice keybed, minimal controls with a flat top like that so I could align it with my desk/keep my equipment close on top of it. Have you tried the cp-40 in person? I'm very curious of the velocity response/action. And if it is adjustable in any way.
> 
> The other option I've considered removing an sl88 grand or doepfer lmk4+'s keybed and control and directly installing them into a custom desk. But thats alot of commitment to a board, and I'd chose not to if another non removable board worked better


The Kawai VPC-1 is perfect if you're looking for something that is strictly a piano controller (it has no mod wheel or pitch bend). Of course, you could use software or another keyboard with these to supplement. It's a great, streamlined controller and easy to use the touch curves that are optimized for some of the more common piano vi's, and you can create your own touch curve as well.

If you want pitch bend/modwheel then the Kawai MP11 is excellent. I am a classical pianist and I use this exclusively as my practice instrument in the summers when I'm away from my acoustic grand, and I love it. I use it as a controller and it's very simple to get going. I find it to be very responsive.

RE: the CP-40, I haven't played that, but it has the GH action which is decent, but not jaw-dropping like the VPC-1 (RM3-II action) or the MP11 (Grand Feel action). The GH has been around for many years, and it only has two-sensors which make trills or repeated notes an issue since the key has to come almost all the way back up before being able to repeat. 

The CP-4, however, has the NW action which is triple sensor (it's the GH3 action with wood keys). I've played the CP-4 and it's good, but again, not really awesome, IMO.

Casio privias (all the PX models) contain the same action. It can be a bit noisier than the others, but it's great if you're on a budget - no one else in the sub-$1k range has as good an action. But if you're looking at $2k-$3k, then the others are going to be better.

Roland RD-800 I hear is an awesome machine. They've come a long way in their actions and made huge improvements, but I haven't played them to say if it's better than what Kawai or Yamaha has to offer.

Fatar actions....ya, they really aren't that good when looking for something that feels like a good acoustic grand. There are just a lot better options out there for that.


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## Zookes

Morodiene said:


> The CP-4, however, has the NW action which is triple sensor (it's the GH3 action with wood keys). I've played the CP-4 and it's good, but again, not really awesome, IMO.



Must stress importance of *3 sensors* within "hammer" and similar slow/realistic action keybeds !

2 sensors is OK for synth / semi-weighted spring keybeds - reset of action is fast. Hammers and such? Very slow to reset. So lacking this 3rd sensor to detect repeat pressing means hammer keybed is not so useful with fast repetitions!

Very prepared players will disguise this flaw in video demos, but you can see they do not repeat notes quickly! Very dishonest of them to say this is good like playing real pianos. Be cautious with this action and ALWAYS try in stores first!

I am always recommending when buying MIDI controllers: avoid this valley of bad quality! Find good semi-weighted or save to buy expensive good 3 sensor hammer action. 2 sensor hammer action will be almost always worse to play than semi-weighted!


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## byzantium

Thanks Zookes. Do manufacturers specific whether they have 2 or 3 sensors per key ?


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## Morodiene

byzantium said:


> Thanks Zookes. Do manufacturers specific whether they have 2 or 3 sensors per key ?


They will specify if it's triple sensor, but not mention if it's two usually. If you have questions on specific actions, the Digital Piano forum is a great resource to ask: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/6/1/Digital_Pianos_-_Synths_&a.html

Or ask here.


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## byzantium

Thanks very much Morodiene.


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## Zookes

byzantium said:


> Thanks Zookes. Do manufacturers specific whether they have 2 or 3 sensors per key ?


The models I have listed before use the 3 sensors, I think.

Maybe I am mistaken, maybe not all, but most I am sure. The product pages will brag this feature, yes.


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## FrankIV

5Lives said:


> Aren't they the same exact Fatar key bed though? Why would they play differently?


5Lives exactly the warning I mentioned in my other reply, the doepfer LMK4+ has a fatar tp/40GH keybed, Studiologic SL88 Grand has a fatar tp/40Wood keybed. As far as fatars go I feel they are the two best keybeds they offer. The doepfer feels really nice, it just sounds a little noisier when you hit the keys because the components are built directly into the flight case. Hence why I've consideyes buying one and removing the keybed and gear into my own desk frame.


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## FrankIV

byzantium said:


> Thanks very much Morodiene.


It's always best to check the official companies page for its instrument when you're trying to find out the finer details like sensor #'s, specific keybed type, etc. Alot of second hand dealers have a tendency to be vague


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## FrankIV

Morodiene said:


> The Kawai VPC-1 is perfect if you're looking for something that is strictly a piano controller (it has no mod wheel or pitch bend). Of course, you could use software or another keyboard with these to supplement. It's a great, streamlined controller and easy to use the touch curves that are optimized for some of the more common piano vi's, and you can create your own touch curve as well.
> 
> If you want pitch bend/modwheel then the Kawai MP11 is excellent. I am a classical pianist and I use this exclusively as my practice instrument in the summers when I'm away from my acoustic grand, and I love it. I use it as a controller and it's very simple to get going. I find it to be very responsive.
> 
> RE: the CP-40, I haven't played that, but it has the GH action which is decent, but not jaw-dropping like the VPC-1 (RM3-II action) or the MP11 (Grand Feel action). The GH has been around for many years, and it only has two-sensors which make trills or repeated notes an issue since the key has to come almost all the way back up before being able to repeat.
> 
> The CP-4, however, has the NW action which is triple sensor (it's the GH3 action with wood keys). I've played the CP-4 and it's good, but again, not really awesome, IMO.
> 
> Casio privias (all the PX models) contain the same action. It can be a bit noisier than the others, but it's great if you're on a budget - no one else in the sub-$1k range has as good an action. But if you're looking at $2k-$3k, then the others are going to be better.
> 
> Roland RD-800 I hear is an awesome machine. They've come a long way in their actions and made huge improvements, but I haven't played them to say if it's better than what Kawai or Yamaha has to offer.
> 
> Fatar actions....ya, they really aren't that good when looking for something that feels like a good acoustic grand. There are just a lot better options out there for that.



I appreciate your honest review! I've been checking out the VPC-1. It's seems like the keybed would be heavenly, I'm just not sure if it would fit appropriatly at my mixing station because of how large that back box part is. I may order one just to physically see. I had no idea the CP40 and CP4 were two different models haha. Im very glad you clarified that, because I'll be looking at the CP4 now instead of the 40.


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## FrankIV

Zookes said:


> Must stress importance of *3 sensors* within "hammer" and similar slow/realistic action keybeds !
> 
> 2 sensors is OK for synth / semi-weighted spring keybeds - reset of action is fast. Hammers and such? Very slow to reset. So lacking this 3rd sensor to detect repeat pressing means hammer keybed is not so useful with fast repetitions!
> 
> Very prepared players will disguise this flaw in video demos, but you can see they do not repeat notes quickly! Very dishonest of them to say this is good like playing real pianos. Be cautious with this action and ALWAYS try in stores first!
> 
> I am always recommending when buying MIDI controllers: avoid this valley of bad quality! Find good semi-weighted or save to buy expensive good 3 sensor hammer action. 2 sensor hammer action will be almost always worse to play than semi-weighted!



I agree fully about the need of 3 sensors. Right now, because I'm still testing different controllers for one I'll definitely keep, I'm using a little Akai MPK249 in the meantime. I cant produce anything serious on it without going back and doing a ton of post-editing. Can't wait till I'm back to using a good quality 88 keys again.


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## FrankIV

Karmarghh said:


> Definitely sounds like a faulty one to me. I can't say I have ever had that issue. Did you ever change the velocity curves through the editor? I had to set mine up to something more fitting to replicate a real piano. However for brass or percussion lines that need a punch I just swap to another velocity curve so that I don't need to beat up the keys to get to the loud dynamics.
> 
> A lot of people here will sing praises for keyboards that are much more expensive, but it's best to just buy what works for you and your price range. If I had a spare £500 I would have got a Kawai or something of course, but it didn't work out like that. I still have no regrets buying my SL88 Grand. I love it!
> 
> EDIT: Saying that, I know that the LMK4+ feels amazing to play - and that is about £300 more. So it all depends on your budget.



I think I'll be giving the SL88 Grand a second go along with testing a couple other I'm seeing on this thread, because yea it must have been a faulty model. I used the custom velocity adjustments alot actually, loved the black to white key velocity ratio adjuster as well, helped everything get nice and balanced. I appreciate your help!


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## byzantium

@FrankIV curious did you give the Studiologic SL88 Grand a second go?

I tried an SL88 Grand today, and wasn't expecting to like the feel of it, but I did, and now I'm more confused as to what to get! I thought the Roland A-88 was the closest so far to what I'm looking for (I don't want a heavy/stiff action). The action is a bit too light and bouncy on the A-88, but it does seem consistent across the keys (unlike the SL88! (where a few keys also had slight clicks)), plus I can fit the A-88 in to an ergonomic setup with its flat top for qwerty and mouse, plus nanokontrol2 faders - whereas the SL88 has that large knob on the top surface.

After playing the SL88 Grand, I was all keen to get it, as it does feel very good and more 'real/acoustic' than the A-88, and it has a host of controller features that the A-88 does not have, but I'm a bit wary about key problems occurring based on various reports and reviews, and from feeling different actions on different keys myself. I haven't tried the Studio version, but if it has the same keyed as the Arturia then it does not sound interesting. Another store had a Kurzweil Forte, which has a Fatar TP40L I believe, which I didn't like at all (clunky, noisy).


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## jonasr

Thank you for sharing. 

Have hade two fatars and both has been been at the repair shop within two years. I just think its worth paying a bit extra to get something really solid. 

I have tried numerous of Roland, Yamaha and Kawai but the latter felt above the others, at least according to me on the digital piano end. Im looking for a more compact but still very playable midi controller to logic. I bought the Nektar LX88 which I thought would be fine for the purpose but I really loose my inspiration. 

Ins't there something in the 1000usd range that would be ok, don't need any functions accept good keys. Kawai ES100? 



Morodiene said:


> The Kawai VPC-1 is perfect if you're looking for something that is strictly a piano controller (it has no mod wheel or pitch bend). Of course, you could use software or another keyboard with these to supplement. It's a great, streamlined controller and easy to use the touch curves that are optimized for some of the more common piano vi's, and you can create your own touch curve as well.
> 
> If you want pitch bend/modwheel then the Kawai MP11 is excellent. I am a classical pianist and I use this exclusively as my practice instrument in the summers when I'm away from my acoustic grand, and I love it. I use it as a controller and it's very simple to get going. I find it to be very responsive.
> 
> RE: the CP-40, I haven't played that, but it has the GH action which is decent, but not jaw-dropping like the VPC-1 (RM3-II action) or the MP11 (Grand Feel action). The GH has been around for many years, and it only has two-sensors which make trills or repeated notes an issue since the key has to come almost all the way back up before being able to repeat.
> 
> The CP-4, however, has the NW action which is triple sensor (it's the GH3 action with wood keys). I've played the CP-4 and it's good, but again, not really awesome, IMO.
> 
> Casio privias (all the PX models) contain the same action. It can be a bit noisier than the others, but it's great if you're on a budget - no one else in the sub-$1k range has as good an action. But if you're looking at $2k-$3k, then the others are going to be better.
> 
> Roland RD-800 I hear is an awesome machine. They've come a long way in their actions and made huge improvements, but I haven't played them to say if it's better than what Kawai or Yamaha has to offer.
> 
> Fatar actions....ya, they really aren't that good when looking for something that feels like a good acoustic grand. There are just a lot better options out there for that.


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## byzantium

Hi jonasr,

I've recently bought a roland a-88 for studio use and reasonably pleased with it. It works ergonomically as I can place computer keyboard and mouse on a sliding shelf over the flat top, and I have less arm/shoulder/wrist trouble now. Roland have a good rep I believe for solidness and consistency and long-lastingness. 

I have realised though that probably any weighted controller that is good for piano will not be necessarily so good for other virtual instruments, so I'm now thinking I also need a smaller light 2-octave 'plastic' controller to sit on top to make fast repetition stuff entry easier to do. I bought a nanokontrol2 for fader CC entry and that works fine (but difficult to configure to use for both transport and midi ccs - luckily I found one very generous person on youtube).

I was looking for Kawai ES100 also but couldn't find anywhere to try it. However I did try the ES8 and MP7 but I didn't really like them (plus a lot of buttons and display on top). I thought the Kawai CA-97 was amazingly beautiful to play, but it's a console / home model.


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## Morodiene

byzantium said:


> Hi jonasr,
> 
> I've recently bought a roland a-88 for studio use and reasonably pleased with it. It works ergonomically as I can place computer keyboard and mouse on a sliding shelf over the flat top, and I have less arm/shoulder/wrist trouble now. Roland have a good rep I believe for solidness and consistency and long-lastingness.
> 
> I have realised though that probably any weighted controller that is good for piano will not be necessarily so good for other virtual instruments, so I'm now thinking I also need a smaller light 2-octave 'plastic' controller to sit on top to make fast repetition stuff entry easier to do. I bought a nanokontrol2 for fader CC entry and that works fine (but difficult to configure to use for both transport and midi ccs - luckily I found one very generous person on youtube).
> 
> I was looking for Kawai ES100 also but couldn't find anywhere to try it. However I did try the ES8 and MP7 but I didn't really like them (plus a lot of buttons and display on top). I thought the Kawai CA-97 was amazingly beautiful to play, but it's a console / home model.


The action of the MP11 (Grand Feel) is very similar to the action of the CA97 (Grand Feel II). If you liked that, then the MP11 may be a good choice for you. It's not as minimalistic as the VPC-1, but it's a good controller (for that not being its main purpose). It's not as feature-heavy as the MP7 or ES8 - it has very simple sounds, all accessible via the buttons (no menus to dig into for that). And the Virtual Technician is an awesome way to sculpt the sound the way you want it. 

@jonasr The ES100 is their entry-level action, so you may be better off with a Casio PX-160 in that case. You'll have to try out both to see which you prefer. Also you can look into the Roland FP-30 and Yamaha P255.


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## Kaufmanmoon

I was looking at getting the SL88 Grand. I was interesting how people get on with the little joysticks for mod e.t.c instead of the normal wheel.
Sorry to Hijack


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## jonasr

Thank you for input Byzantium. Appreciate it. I did try the Roland and the ES100 the other day and I think the Kawai just gets something right about the feel of the keys, however more bulky than the Roland. Te Roland form factor os really perfect for me. Maybe adding a small extra controller is the way to go. 

CA-97 is amazing, that be my home piano in a not to distant future. 

@Morodiene Thanks for weighing in on this, you seem to know quite a bit of subject. Their entry-level action felt really good though, will try to get hold of that Yamaha as well to try out. Seems like Casio is doing really good and affordable gear at the moment, will try it out as well. 



byzantium said:


> Hi jonasr,
> 
> I've recently bought a roland a-88 for studio use and reasonably pleased with it. It works ergonomically as I can place computer keyboard and mouse on a sliding shelf over the flat top, and I have less arm/shoulder/wrist trouble now. Roland have a good rep I believe for solidness and consistency and long-lastingness.
> 
> I have realised though that probably any weighted controller that is good for piano will not be necessarily so good for other virtual instruments, so I'm now thinking I also need a smaller light 2-octave 'plastic' controller to sit on top to make fast repetition stuff entry easier to do. I bought a nanokontrol2 for fader CC entry and that works fine (but difficult to configure to use for both transport and midi ccs - luckily I found one very generous person on youtube).
> 
> I was looking for Kawai ES100 also but couldn't find anywhere to try it. However I did try the ES8 and MP7 but I didn't really like them (plus a lot of buttons and display on top). I thought the Kawai CA-97 was amazingly beautiful to play, but it's a console / home model.





byzantium said:


> Hi jonasr,
> 
> I've recently bought a roland a-88 for studio use and reasonably pleased with it. It works ergonomically as I can place computer keyboard and mouse on a sliding shelf over the flat top, and I have less arm/shoulder/wrist trouble now. Roland have a good rep I believe for solidness and consistency and long-lastingness.
> 
> I have realised though that probably any weighted controller that is good for piano will not be necessarily so good for other virtual instruments, so I'm now thinking I also need a smaller light 2-octave 'plastic' controller to sit on top to make fast repetition stuff entry easier to do. I bought a nanokontrol2 for fader CC entry and that works fine (but difficult to configure to use for both transport and midi ccs - luckily I found one very generous person on youtube).
> 
> I was looking for Kawai ES100 also but couldn't find anywhere to try it. However I did try the ES8 and MP7 but I didn't really like them (plus a lot of buttons and display on top). I thought the Kawai CA-97 was amazingly beautiful to play, but it's a console / home model.


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## byzantium

Cheers jonasr,

I tried out the Casio PX-160 prior - I think it's well worth a try out if you can find one, it was quite impressive. But was just a bit too high form factor for me for building in to a desk.


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## Maximvs

Hello folks,

Anyone is using the Studiologic Numa Compact? I have a Kawai MP8 which is a really wonderful stage piano but it weighs a ton and I am looking for a light weight 88 keys controller. There are no many options available in the market... I am not so interested to have faders and knobs and neither a piano action key bed but nevertheless a decent synth action key bed.

Thanks in advance for any feedback and/or suggestions,

Max T.


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## Cecco

Massimo said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> Anyone is using the Studiologic Numa Compact?
> 
> Max T.


Plus 1. I am interested in opinions about The Studiologic Numa Compact as well. I need to replace my old Yamaha Cp 33 which has some faulty keys. I am also considering The Nektar Impact LX 88+. Thank you


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## Maximvs

Cecco said:


> Plus 1. I am interested in opinions about The Studiologic Numa Compact as well. I need to replace my old Yamaha Cp 33 which has some faulty keys. I am also considering The Nektar Impact LX 88+. Thank you


Hi Cecco,

I have also been considering the Nektar Impact LX 88+ but heard that there is a sensitivity discrepancy between the white and black keys which may be problematic, in any case I hope to get a chance to test one soon.

Best, Max


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## Cecco

Massimo said:


> Hi Cecco,
> 
> I have also been considering the Nektar Impact LX 88+ but heard that there is a sensitivity discrepancy between the white and black keys which may be problematic, in any case I hope to get a chance to test one soon.
> 
> Best, Max


Hello Max, 
yes I have heard that as well. I was hoping that was a manufacturing fault related to the first production run. Do you know if it's a mechanical problem or if it is something that could be resolved with a firmware update?


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## byzantium

It looks like the black/white key difference is still there for the foreseeable future. I received this response from Nektar to a question about whether the black/white key responsiveness has been fixed/improved or can be adjusted with a firmware update in the new '+' model:

"The only major differences between the LX and the LX+ models are as follows:

There are different color LED lights around the pads

There are added functions below the display buttons
We added 'Clip' and 'Scene' buttons that launch in Bitwig 

We have added another user assignable page of controls in instrument mode
In regards to the keys, they are the same keybed in both models. Also the velocity sensitivity is the same on both models."


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## Cecco

That's a pity. Would be nice if someone who actually has played the Nektar first hand could chime in to tell how much this problem affects the overall playability of the keyboard.


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## byzantium

I've played the Nektar LX88 first-hand in the store, and for me the difference between black and white keys was too much. But that's not to say it will be too much for you. I was looking for a controller to play piano on as well. And others have found it fine. So depends on what you want, and there's no substitute for trying it yourself, if you can get your hands on one.


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## Maximvs

byzantium said:


> I've played the Nektar LX88 first-hand in the store, and for me the difference between black and white keys was too much. But that's not to say it will be too much for you. I was looking for a controller to play piano on as well. And others have found it fine. So depends on what you want, and there's no substitute for trying it yourself, if you can get your hands on one.


Thanks a lot for your kind feedback!

I am still amazed by the fact that a company, in this case Nektar, that is aware of this key issue has not done anything about it and simply released a new model with a few fancy additions... it is just beyond me!!
I personally haven't completely ruled the LX88 out but as you said, testing it in person is a must. I won't buy something like this or any other keyboard without testing it first. Best, Max


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## Cecco

Thank you Byzantium. Have you guys considered some alternatives? Actually one thing that I like about the Nektar is the fact that is very low (only 9 cm). That's why I was considering the Studiologic Numa Compact as well, which is about the same height.


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## byzantium

Lots of other threads on controllers on vi-control, here are 2:

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/experiences-with-nektar-keyboards.56453/

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/shopping-for-an-88-key-midi-contoller.43987/


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## jonasr

Massimo said:


> Hi Cecco,
> 
> I have also been considering the Nektar Impact LX 88+ but heard that there is a sensitivity discrepancy between the white and black keys which may be problematic, in any case I hope to get a chance to test one soon.
> 
> Best, Max


I am getting rid of mine, read lot of good things about prior buying it but don't really like it at all. Just had it for a few months but I think that it hasn't really that good of a feel. I never had a chance to play it live before ordering it. Which was a bad move in retrospect. Also very inconsistent as a DAW controller. And the connection drops to logic at times. Most trouble ever had with a controller on that level. 

Some semi weighted keys I kind of liked was M-Audio Code keyboard. I liked it better than the nektar which I am selling now.


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## John57

I thought that Nektar Impact LX 88+ would be nice. Since it does not have a expression pedal I thought like my Roland when not using the expression pedal that you can map CC control number 11 to one of the Nekar faders. However one user stated that you can not assign the Nektar CC that way. The user manual does not mention assigning the CC control number, just the CC value. That would be a deal breaker.


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## iobaaboi

I've been on a bit of a ideal controller quest for sometime now, so I thought I'd share my experiences. 

I started out with a Studiologic Numa Nero. I liked the action okay but the lack of pitchbend control and the software support felt archaic. I started having problems with the velocity response so I returned it. 

I moved onto the VPC1 and was in love with the action. I had to supplement CC control (iPad and some other smaller controllers) but couldn't find a good way to get useful pitchbend again. Plus it's very cumbersome and heavy. I didn't like having my Mac keyboard so high above the controller keys (I had those at standard piano height from the floor). 

So I moved into the S88 by NI and thought it was a good solution. I liked the pitch and mod touch strips but the action had a lot of noise issues and I'm an a little over sensitive to clicky keyboard actions. 

Next I tried the SL88 Grand and thought I had found it. But I noticed a bad keyboard click in just one key so I sent it in for replacement. The replacement had the issue detailed in the OP. I was really disappointed. 

Next I figured I'd try the SL88 Studio since I liked the software controll program a lot. The action is actually pretty decent but the killer for this one was the little joysticks. I grew to love them for everything but pitchbend, for which they are useless. 

I am now with the A88, which I am really optimistic about so far. The action is realistic enough and nicely light for hours of writing without fatigue. I assigned one of the knobs to CC1 but also have faders for CC control. Most importantly, I like how my various piano libraries respond to the A88. The 3 pedal assembly I got with it is sublime, best feeling pedals ever. Also, the ergonomics are wonderful with it being so narrow. I it tucked under my desk right until the power button (I don't plan on using the D beam) and my keyboard/mouse/trackpad are just a short reach away from the keys. 

So good luck everyone! I feel like some company should tap into the composer controller market instead of the bedroom producer market seemingly all controllers are geared towards. I would pay $2k for my ideal controller and I'm sure I'm not alone.


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## John57

That is great that you have the ergonomics planned out that is comfortable for your needs. My SL88 Studio just came in a few days ago. No stuck keys. Not having a issue with the joysticks for pitchbend. I do however created a custom velocity curve for the keyboard since none of the factory presets worked for me. Created an action plan to make the SL88 Studio the perfect master MIDI controller. So far I am very pleased with the results.


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## iobaaboi

I didn't experience any key issues with the Studio, only the Grand's action. 

I really liked the joysticks for XY control inside of things like the Embertone series and Zebra2. It was okay for modulation control but not great for dynamic automation recording as the range was a little short compared to a fader. 

I felt the pitchbend could work but it was hard to get a controlled bend with some portamento between the notes, especially on my softsynths. I'm sure I could've gotten used to it but I love the A88 pitch/mod joystick for synth stuff. 

My other big issue was the giant knob that never got used right in the middle. It made it difficult to have a keyboard centered above the keys. 

I'm glad your SL88 Studio is working for you! It is a fantastic controller, especially for the build quality you get for such a low price.


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## byzantium

Cecco said:


> Thank you Byzantium. Have you guys considered some alternatives? Actually one thing that I like about the Nektar is the fact that is very low (only 9 cm). That's why I was considering the Studiologic Numa Compact as well, which is about the same height.



yes I ended up buying the roland a-88 and as @iobaaboi says above it is great ergonomically as a result of the low profile and no controls on top. The action is light enough, and is consistent. I don't much like the rubbery impact pads under the keys but at the same time that is what makes it quiet. Had a similar uneasy feeling about the sl-88 grand as there were one or two clicks and some uneven keys, even though the overall action was lovely (and also it had control knobs on top).


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## iobaaboi

It's a balance of ideal action and overal ergonomics. My guess is that's why you see so many of the Doepfers built into desks.

As great as the action of the VPC1 (and I can only image, the MP11), it's just not great ergonomically to have your keyboard up that high above. Either your controller will be too low or your keyboard will be too high, or you can split the difference.

I would love to have a Kawai action built into a desk with the mod controller compliment of the A-88 or similar and my keyboard somehow situation just above the keyboard level. I even opened up my VPC1 to see if that would even be possible, didn't look it at all. 

The A-88 is good enough action-wise, so it'll stay with me until something better comes along.


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## byzantium

Couldn't have put it better myself. 
Ergonomics are important for me for constant use to avoid too much pain/injury.

I have a keyboard and Korg NanoKontrol2 on top which works fine. I've yet to built a desk around it. I'll put the A-88 on a fixed stand/surface for stability and slide the top shelf over the top of it for computer / controls. 

Dream for me would be the keybed from the Kawai CA-97 (Grand Feel II) built in to a desk.


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## John57

The A-88 is good and have the Roland A-800 pro in addition to the SL88 Studio. The Roland stick was fine for pitch bend but not as good for modulation. I had to remap one of the faders for modulation but also can use the expression pedal as well. The issue I had with the SL88 Studio was that it was hard to reach 127 in velocity. I had to create a custom curve in order to do that. The balance between the black key velocity and the white keys is very good and the balance can be adjusted as needed. Also on the SL88 keyboards you can individually set each key with its own velocity curve. This can be handy when you split the keyboard with a drum kit since the various kit parts sensitivity is all over the place. 

Ergonomics is very important and have piano friends that had wrist surgery. I find the action on the SL88 Studio is somewhat between a upright and a Grand. If the SL88 Grand have a heavier action than my SL88 Studio I do not want it. Generally the action on a upright piano is more even between the bass and treble keys than a Grand.


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## John57

What I did with my SL88 Studio is to put it on a movable side table at the correct height and leave my computer keyboard and monitors alone. I am not planing a great showcase environment for clients.
What I also did was to get the magnetic computer plate for it and instead of a laptop I am using the Panorama P1 on the SL computer plate with room to spare. The P1 integration is wonderful deep with Reaper, my DAW. You can even have the P1 to switch between Rewire devices. You can get two Panorama P1 units and have them dedicated to Reaper and the other to Reason as per SweetWater tech support, see page 468. Good control over the VST instruments. In my case the I can press one key and it will bring up my EastWest Play interface with three pages of control. Works fine with Kontakt also. The P1 can store 20 presets with all the assignments for 16 encoders, 9 45mm faders, 10 LED buttons, 28 buttons and a foot switch plus a link to any of the 10 stored assignable. Each of the 10 F-keys maps stores the setting of each of the 11 F keys and each F key can store up to eight QWERTY or key shortcut commands. It just works. On Reaper just look at the reaper manual located here
REAPER | User Guide
Check out chapter 15 and you then can realize how powerful QWERTY macros can be. It is a rare event to get something that exceeds my expectations. This makes having a keyboard on a side table very workable and productive. I got my P1 at $220. You still have room to put up the SL magnetic music stand also. Reaper music notation editor is getting better all the time.


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## N.Caffrey

so between the SL88 studio, grand, A-88 and Arturia 88 Keylab what would you recommend?


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## John57

I would pick the SL88 Studio over the Grand because I wanted a even action not graded and a lighter keyboard to carry it up and down the stairs once a while. My UPS driver had a fit trying to carry my two 88 keyboards in boxes. The Rolands are reliable to have and easier to find in stores. Depends on how picky you are on the keybed action feel. The Arturia 88 Keylab circuity might not be as reliable according to reviews on the web and youtube. 

But the important thing for me is the integration and workflow I have with the SL88 Studio and Panorama P1 which as a system is far better than any other 88 keyboards on the market, it's the Cat's Pajamas. The power, workflow and price is the best I can come up with. The SL computer magnetic plate works great with the Panorama P1 since I am also tight in space. All I have to do is to swivel my chair without moving it between the computer monitors and the SL88 Studio system as needed but not very often. 

Here is a video review of the Panorama P4 with Reaper. The P1 operates the same without a keybed and pads.


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## John57

The Roland A88 has just one MIDI 5 pin out while the SL88 has MIDI in and two MIDI outs. This in addition to the USB connection. You can split the A88 into two parts while on the SL88 you can split it four ways. You can adjust the Black and white velocity balance on the SL88 and not on the A88 When using Roland three pedal setup all the three pedal inputs on the keyboard are used. While on the SL88 three pedal setup just one jack is needed on the keyboard. This means you do not have to unplug the other pedal like my expression pedal. The SL88 has four pedal inputs. I played around the three joysticks on my SL88 and getting used to the pitch bend range. I can understand that some would like to have more travel in the joysticks. It does not bother me as much as the Roland stick for modulation. I had to set the Roland modulation to 64 so that I do not loose all my volume when I bump the stick. I used the Roland faders or my expression pedal for modulation depending on what VST I am using.

Finally if Roland had a 88 key Pro like my A-800 pro I would get it over the Keylab because I personally know it has been reliable. I am getting used to the hammer action on my SL88 and it has quite a different feel when playing softly that I beginning to like better and the advantage of the key three switches comes more in play.


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## SchnookyPants

John57 said:


> The Roland A88 has just one MIDI 5 pin out while the SL88 has MIDI in and two MIDI outs. This in addition to the USB connection. You can split the A88 into two parts while on the SL88 you can split it four ways. You can adjust the Black and white velocity balance on the SL88 and not on the A88 When using Roland three pedal setup all the three pedal inputs on the keyboard are used. While on the SL88 three pedal setup just one jack is needed on the keyboard. This means you do not have to unplug the other pedal like my expression pedal. The SL88 has four pedal inputs. I played around the three joysticks on my SL88 and getting used to the pitch bend range. I can understand that some would like to have more travel in the joysticks. It does not bother me as much as the Roland stick for modulation. I had to set the Roland modulation to 64 so that I do not loose all my volume when I bump the stick. I used the Roland faders or my expression pedal for modulation depending on what VST I am using.
> 
> Finally if Roland had a 88 key Pro like my A-800 pro I would get it over the Keylab because I personally know it has been reliable. I am getting used to the hammer action on my SL88 and it has quite a different feel when playing softly that I beginning to like better and the advantage of the key three switches comes more in play.



Closing-in on two years, John. Care to give a reliability report on the SL88 Studio?


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