# Discuss the music of Jerry Goldsmith



## dcoscina (Jul 18, 2021)

I listened to this soundtrack endlessly as a 14 year old in 1982 and so much that I stepped away from it for many years, not because it was bad, but because I had internalized every note, every phrase, every nuance of this score. I began listening to it again thanks to the Intrada expanded CD release that came out a number of year ago. Listening on headphones to this re mastered score in its film presentation is stunning. The detail in the orchestrations, the subtle shadings Goldsmith imbued, the kinetic mixed meter action pieces.... it's a tour de force and a masterclass in action scoring. While it's complex and busy, it's never cluttered or excessive. Everything has its place. The original score was also performed by the National Philharmonic Orchestra in London who also played on Legend, Total Recall, The Final Conflict, Alien, just to name a few. The sound of the hall and the expansive sound adds to the quality. Additionally, the Main Theme is surely one of Jerry's best. A mournful, somber, yet poignant melody with some terrific harmonic modulations to generate a dramatic arc. It's a masterpiece.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 18, 2021)

Well, THAT is a terrific write up - I now want to acquaint myself with the piece. Only very recently I discovered Alien, and this one is going to by my next. You have a way with words!


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## Consona (Jul 18, 2021)




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## Farkle (Jul 18, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I listened to this soundtrack endlessly as a 14 year old in 1982 and so much that I stepped away from it for many years, not because it was bad, but because I had internalized every note, every phrase, every nuance of this score. I began listening to it again thanks to the Intrada expanded CD release that came out a number of year ago. Listening on headphones to this re mastered score in its film presentation is stunning. The detail in the orchestrations, the subtle shadings Goldsmith imbued, the kinetic mixed meter action pieces.... it's a tour de force and a masterclass in action scoring. While it's complex and busy, it's never cluttered or excessive. Everything has its place. The original score was also performed by the National Philharmonic Orchestra in London who also played on Legend, Total Recall, The Final Conflict, Alien, just to name a few. The sound of the hall and the expansive sound adds to the quality. Additionally, the Main Theme is surely one of Jerry's best. A mournful, somber, yet poignant melody with some terrific harmonic modulations to generate a dramatic arc. It's a masterpiece.


Dave, I transcribed a bit of the "Stealth" cue from this, on one of my FF's. I think this is a fantastic Jerry score; and it's got great subtelty to many of the cues. Of course, it also can rip with the main theme in trumpets, as a kickass hero theme. Jerry... Jerry... why are you so good? 

Love this film score by him.


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## Loïc D (Jul 18, 2021)

Why discuss? 
It’s terrific, period.
One of my fav Goldsmith score.


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## dcoscina (Jul 18, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Well, THAT is a terrific write up - I now want to acquaint myself with the piece. Only very recently I discovered Alien, and this one is going to by my next. You have a way with words!


Thanks. I've been writing for Film Score Monthly since the early 90s... I enjoy analyzing scores to see why I like some of them so much. I recently participated in a lengthy podcast comparing the two scores to 1985 Legend- Tangerine Dream vs Goldsmith. Wanna guess which one I prefer? LOL.


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## Markrs (Jul 18, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Thanks. I've been writing for Film Score Monthly since the early 90s... I enjoy analyzing scores to see why I like some of them so much. I recently participated in a lengthy podcast comparing the two scores to 1985 Legend- Tangerine Dream vs Goldsmith. Wanna guess which one I prefer? LOL.


Which podcast was that for?


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## doctoremmet (Jul 18, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Which podcast was that for?


+1. I listen to the comPOSERS podcast and a couple of others like it (the one hosted by the ex CEO of Fox, sponsored by SA). Would love to add another one to my list!


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## dcoscina (Jul 18, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Which podcast was that for?











SOUNDTRACK ALLEY: LEGEND - PART ONE - Cinematic Sound Radio Podcast


The ninth episode of SOUNDTRACK ALLEY here on CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO features a bit of a different format than other SOUNDTRACK ALLEY episodes. Regular host, Randy Andrews, decided to skip this episode and left it up to Erik Woods to host and moderate a roundtable discussion about the film...




www.cinematicsound.net


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## Markrs (Jul 18, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> SOUNDTRACK ALLEY: LEGEND - PART ONE - Cinematic Sound Radio Podcast
> 
> 
> The ninth episode of SOUNDTRACK ALLEY here on CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO features a bit of a different format than other SOUNDTRACK ALLEY episodes. Regular host, Randy Andrews, decided to skip this episode and left it up to Erik Woods to host and moderate a roundtable discussion about the film...
> ...


 subscribed 👍


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## doctoremmet (Jul 18, 2021)

Markrs said:


> subscribed 👍


Since Mark and I are living under the same Swindon bridge, of course I did as well


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## Niah2 (Jul 18, 2021)

Love everything about this score !

The percussion sound has been a great inspiration guide for me over the years. Î like how clear everything sounds like you have said.

Mountain hunt is one of my all-time favourite cues. Love the quiet tense penderecki's string + xylophone moments cut with thunderous quasi militaristic percussion. 

Simply the best !


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## Markrs (Jul 18, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Since Mark and I are living under the same Swindon bridge, of course I did as well


Not sure I can afford the rent to live under the bridge, after buying the Staffpad libraries. 🤣


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## Jish (Jul 18, 2021)

What has always stayed with me on this particular Jerry score, more than the theme itself (which is very good) is the damn _mood _of the whole thing- I mean, everyone always cites _Basic Instinct_ as being one of the pinnacles with regards to this, but really I think his score to _First Blood _accomplishes this as well, but mostly it's the theme that get's the praise- the star of this soundtrack is the underscore, which has this weird aged sonic quality that somehow just fit perfectly with the notes on the page and whatever is happening on screen at any given time. If the main theme comes off as being anything more rarefied than your typical Goldsmith effort, I just think it's because he did such a masterful job of interweaving pieces of it with everything else in that score. Don't think it's possible not learning something from it.


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## dcoscina (Jul 18, 2021)

Markrs said:


> subscribed 👍


Thanks, my friend Erik will appreciate that as Cinematic Sound Radio is his show. I’ve composed most of the intros for it since 2013.


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## dcoscina (Jul 18, 2021)

Jish said:


> What has always stayed with me on this particular Jerry score, more than the theme itself (which is very good) is the damn _mood _of the whole thing- I mean, everyone always cites _Basic Instinct_ as being one of the pinnacles with regards to this, but really I think his score to _First Blood _accomplishes this as well, but mostly it's the theme that get's the praise- the star of this soundtrack is the underscore, which has this weird aged sonic quality that somehow just fit perfectly with the notes on the page and whatever is happening on screen at any given time. If the main theme comes off as being anything more rarefied than your typical Goldsmith effort, I just think it's because he did such a masterful job of interweaving pieces of it with everything else in that score. Don't think it's possible not learning something from it.


The action cues are outstanding. This was back in the day where the composer would construct set pieces just for that scene. They’d latch onto a central idea and develop it all the while contrasting it or marrying it with the existing thematic material.


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## Jish (Jul 18, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> This was back in the day where the composer would construct set pieces just for that scene. They’d latch onto a central idea and develop it all the while contrasting it or marrying it with the existing thematic material.


Yeah, that's a very good way of looking at it- alot more can be expounded just on this point and the sad thing is the general gist or consensus is that type of writing feels too 'old fashion' now- whatever, I'm more than willing to see it swing way the hell back into fashion with all the new tools now available. The gold is mostly in the writing itself, regardless.

It's difficult to top 'First Blood' and 'Total Recall' when it comes to action/suspense scores.


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## dcoscina (Jul 18, 2021)

Jish said:


> Yeah, that's a very good way of looking at it- alot more can be expounded just on this point and the sad thing is the general gist or consensus is that type of writing feels too 'old fashion' now- whatever, I'm more than willing to see it swing way the hell back into fashion with all the new tools now available. The gold is mostly in the writing itself, regardless.
> 
> It's difficult to top 'First Blood' and 'Total Recall' when it comes to action/suspense scores.


There is so much similarity in approach to First Blood and the way Stravinsky constructed his earlier stage work scores much like Total Recall draws upon Bartok. There is almost a dialogue between orchestral choirs in the action cues where one plays off against another. It is immediate and creates tension without drowning out the dialogue or sound effects. There is an economy of writing but still a complexity in the rhythmic and harmonic approach


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## tmhuud (Jul 18, 2021)

It truly is a masterpiece. I’ve been buying all the expanded reissues of anything Jerry’s done.


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## I like music (Jul 19, 2021)

It is superb all around. 

But also, that base material (the theme) is amazing. At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, the kids today don't realise that "Epic" already existed. When he really lets that theme go (in subsequent films especially) you couldn't describe it as anything other than "Epic Cinematic Emotional" in its purest form.


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## Loïc D (Jul 19, 2021)

Subscribed too


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## chrisr (Jul 19, 2021)

As I've said elsewhere, having two young daughters, this movie is now ruined for me at exactly the point where Rambo utters the last 6 words of this scene. My inner magical princess just takes over. Such a shame.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 19, 2021)

chrisr said:


> As I've said elsewhere, having two young daughters, this movie is now ruined for me at exactly the point where Rambo utters the last 6 words of this scene. My inner magical princess just takes over. Such a shame.



My own kids are too old. But I do have little nieces. And I know EXACTLY what you mean hahaha. This made my day


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## I like music (Jul 19, 2021)

chrisr said:


> As I've said elsewhere, having two young daughters, this movie is now ruined for me at exactly the point where Rambo utters the last 6 words of this scene. My inner magical princess just takes over. Such a shame.



How did I never notice?


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## dcoscina (Jul 19, 2021)

Loïc D said:


> Subscribed too


Thanks for your support. It means a lot to my pal Erik Woods who I think runs one of the best soundtrack podcasts out there.


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## dcoscina (Jul 19, 2021)

I'm going to follow up this thread with music examples and analysis of the themes and central motivic figures Jerry uses in this score. Here is a couple ways to look at his famous bass figure.

View attachment 53525


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## Giovanni dall Camera (Jul 19, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I'm going to follow up this thread with music examples and analysis of the themes and central motivic figures Jerry uses in this score. Here is a couple ways to look at his famous bass figure.
> 
> View attachment 53521


Having seen some of Jerry Goldsmith scores, I bet it would have been written as 5/8 7/8 with inner divisions separated by individual beams. In this case: :|| 123 12 | 123 12 12 ||:


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## dcoscina (Jul 19, 2021)

Giovanni dall Camera said:


> Having seen some of Jerry Goldsmith scores, I bet it would have been written as 5/8 7/8 with inner divisions separated by individual beams. In this case: :|| 123 12 | 123 12 12 ||:


I changed it- good to note.


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## dcoscina (Jul 19, 2021)

Goldsmith introduces this figure after Rambo escapes from the police station and recaps it several other times in the score. 1. When Rambo is pursued atop the mountain by the posse (similar tempo) 2. When he decides to
Scale down the boldface cliff to elude capture (slower tempo and Goldsmith introduces a element of portent and danger with the bass moving down a whole step creating harmonic ambiguity (the flattened 7th collides with the melodic figure creating a delicious dissonance, underlining the threat of plummeting to his death). Track: Hanging On.


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## South Thames (Jul 20, 2021)

I've always loved the piano cluster when Rambo releases the knife (echoes of Chinatown). But any clip that doesn't show Teasel sliding down the tree and blubbing like a baby is incomplete.


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## darkogav (Jul 20, 2021)

That's what happened to me with the John William's E.T. soundtrack. I bought the tape as a kid and wore it away listening to it so many times. I think I knew every single passage.


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## dcoscina (Jul 20, 2021)

Giovanni dall Camera said:


> Having seen some of Jerry Goldsmith scores, I bet it would have been written as 5/8 7/8 with inner divisions separated by individual beams. In this case: :|| 123 12 | 123 12 12 ||:


Listening back, the primary 5 note motif is more 2,3 and the alternating 7 note motif is 2,2,3 beat division.


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## Baronvonheadless (Nov 7, 2021)

The ‘Homecoming’ theme is one of the best things goldsmith ever wrote


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## dcoscina (Jan 30, 2022)

This score is bloody brilliant. I would give anything for @Omni Music or @chrissiddall to release the full study score.


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## dcoscina (Jan 30, 2022)

NOTE- I've changed the thread title which encompasses all music by Jerry Goldsmith not just First Blood.


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## dcoscina (Feb 26, 2022)

Damn cue gets me every time


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## Mr Greg G (Feb 27, 2022)

LOVED the Chinatown soundtrack. It was definitely part of the success of the movie. I wish there still were composers like him around, with a sense of melody and subtlety.


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## South Thames (Mar 10, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> This score is bloody brilliant. I would give anything for @Omni Music or @chrissiddall to release the full study score.


@dcoscina 

@chrissiddall announced on one of his videos the other week that releases for rest of the year would be Conan The Barbarian, Legends of the Fall, Gremlins... and Alien.


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## dcoscina (Mar 10, 2022)

South Thames said:


> @dcoscina
> 
> @chrissiddall announced on one of his videos the other week that releases for rest of the year would be Conan The Barbarian, Legends of the Fall, Gremlins... and Alien.


Yup- can’t wait


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 10, 2022)

This came up today on the Jerry Goldsmith FB feed: 

Interesting post at FSM about a new Jerry Goldsmith book from Jeff Bond coming out….

COMING THIS SUMMER: THE JERRY GOLDSMITH COMPANION: VOLUME 1 and 2

For over 70 years, and even now almost two decades after his death in 2004, the name of Jerry Goldsmith has been an iconic addition to a host of science fiction movies, action films, thrillers, war movies and other genres, as well as television projects throughout the 1960s and 1970s, radio work, concert compositions and even familiar movie studio logo music and commercials. Goldsmith’s name guaranteed one thing—that the music from these projects would take on its own life as a virtuoso, involving composition, a work of art of its own that could continue to grip and involve listeners year after year—often when the film or television project itself had been long forgotten.

Jerry Goldsmith’s scores for classic films like Planet of the Apes, Patton, Papillon, Chinatown, The Omen, Alien, Poltergeist and Basic Instinct are part of the DNA of these films—music that helped define them and push them into the forefront of our cultural consciousness. But the composer’s efforts on other films—The Blue Max, The Chairman, Capricorn One, Star Trek – The Motion Picture, First Blood, The Secret of NIMH, Under Fire, Legend, Total Recall, L.A. Confidential, The Sum of All Fears and dozens of others—stand up as influential, lasting creations as well. 

Now for the first time in the U.S. Goldsmith’s career and music is explored in a titanic, 2-volume publication by Jeff Bond, author of The Fantasy Worlds of Irwin Allen, Danse Macabre: 25 Years of Danny Elfman and Tim Burton, The Music of Star Trek and other books. Over three years in the making and boasting a manuscript of over 330,000 words - OVER 1,000 pages - The Jerry Goldsmith Companion covers the composer’s earliest projects, including radio work involving Ray Bradbury, William Conrad, Aldous Huxley and Christopher Isherwood; Goldsmith’s groundbreaking work on live television with directors like Franklin J. Schaffner and John Frankenheimer; his pivotal work on the TV programs The Twilight Zone and Thriller, his years under contract at 20th Century Fox where he wrote classic scores such as The Sand Pebbles, Planet of the Apes and Patton; his gritty 1970s television and TV-movie work and his Oscar-winning score for The Omen; his conflicts with directors like Otto Preminger on In Harm’s Way and Ridley Scott on Alien; his struggle to create the monumental music for Star Trek: The Motion Picture in 1979; his symphonic fantasy and action movies of the early 1980s like Poltergeist, The Final Conflict, Night Crossing and First Blood; his exploration of electronics throughout his career and his constant evolution from year to year and decade to decade, and his emergence as one of the only composers of his generation to adapt and remain relevant and in demand for major motion pictures up until the final days of his career.

With never-before-published photographs and artwork, music samples and interviews both archival and new (with fresh insights from David Newman, John Mauceri, Christopher Young, Michael Giacchino, Christophe Beck, John Ottman, Ludwig Goransson, Richard Kraft, Peyton Reed, Conrad Pope, Douglass Fake, Carlos Rafael Rivera, Malcolm McNab, Jeff Russo and others), this massive two-volume set finally puts into perspective the work and career of one of the most important musical artists of the 20th Century.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 10, 2022)

Better start saving… 🤪🤪🤪


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## odod (Mar 10, 2022)

phenomenal! period ..


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## tmhuud (Mar 10, 2022)

Sounds like Jeffs book will definitely not fit as liner notes inside a cd’s jewel case. Lol


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