# Why Does Waves Keep Harassing Me?



## robgb (Nov 12, 2019)

I keep getting emails from Waves telling me to renew my update plan. Why the hell do I need an update plan? The plugins work just fine the way they are.


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## Dewdman42 (Nov 12, 2019)

you don't. They update their plugins very infrequently. The update plan is only good for a year and you might see one update during that time period, or might not even see that. My advice is wait until you think you need an update, then resubscribe one time to get the latest update and let it lapse after that until you absolutely need an update again.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 12, 2019)

Depends on if you are PC or Mac. If you are Mac and like to update your OS, you may need to keep it up. Or just buy an upgrade bundle, which is usually cheaper.


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## richard kurek (Nov 12, 2019)

robgb said:


> I keep getting emails from Waves telling me to renew my update plan. Why the hell do I need an update plan? The plugins work just fine the way they are.


they want your money, i avoid all monthly or yearly plans , there's enough out there to avoid waves , avid , adobe , slate etc..
on Catalina and my wave plugins work version 9.9


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## Dewdman42 (Nov 12, 2019)

good to hear that 9.9 is working on Catalina! That is a major kudos to waves for not forcing me to update some stuff there is just no reason to


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## kgdrum (Nov 12, 2019)

If your Wave plugs work in your DAW & current OS, there’s absolutely no reason to update via WUP.
The last version of Waves I used was version # 8 and I actually deleted all of my Waves plugins.After a while for a brief moment I wanted to reinstall and update to version 9 but I really didn’t want to engage & pay for WUP.
I decided to contact Waves tech support and believe it or not the rep explained to me how to reinstall and update to 9 without paying for the WUP update.
Ironically I never reinstalled,I have so many plugs I prefer and I hate the Waveshell and seem to have less problems without Waves on my system.
I don’t know if anything has changed in the last few years but imo WUP is simply a revenue stream for Waves,if it’s working in your system as is now there’s really no good reason to pay for WUP.


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## chocobitz825 (Nov 12, 2019)

waves is the worst...


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Nov 12, 2019)

chocobitz825 said:


> waves is the worst...



Clearly, both Nestlé as well as Monsanto make worse audio plugins.


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## chocobitz825 (Nov 12, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Clearly, both Nestlé as well as Monsanto make worse audio plugins.



If nestle had an AI-Based mixing assistant called ”Quik Mix”...I would be tempted to try it. If monsanto was still around, who knows what modulators they could make? 

in the end they’d probably still have better upgrade plans and service than waves...


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## GtrString (Nov 12, 2019)

Only consider it when are forced to do it. If you update your OS or change computer or something.

I ended up in that kind of situation, considered doing the WUP, and chose to dump all my Waves plugins instead. Just too much hassle for me.


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## premjj (Nov 29, 2019)

Just thinking aloud here. They've released v11 so soon after v10. What is the assurance that if one updates/upgrades to v11 now, v12 won't be round the corner?

The strategy appears to be to discount plugins by 90% to pull customers in and then change the version overall to make these discounted plugins effectively 'outdated' for resale (so you'll be forced to upgrade in order to sell). Or am I missing something here?


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## tokatila (Nov 29, 2019)

premjj said:


> Just thinking aloud here. They've released v11 so soon after v10. What is the assurance that if one updates/upgrades to v11 now, v12 won't be round the corner?
> 
> The strategy appears to be to discount plugins by 90% to pull customers in and then change the version overall to make these discounted plugins effectively 'outdated' for resale (so you'll be forced to upgrade in order to sell). Or am I missing something here?



No. You are not.


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## Damarus (Nov 29, 2019)

GtrString said:


> I ended up in that kind of situation, considered doing the WUP, and chose to dump all my Waves plugins instead. Just too much hassle for me.



Same. After I realized what Waves Update Plan was, I stopped buying anything from them.


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## chocobitz825 (Nov 29, 2019)

Sounds about right. The update schene is shady and I can’t see its value. I just deleted all my waves plugins yesterday. These waveshell bundles/plugin files keep failing authorization in my daw and causing hell.
Good riddance.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Nov 29, 2019)

I find the Waves Update Plan awesome.

I've been using a bunch of great plugins since 2012, paid 29 bucks for most of them and never updated or paid for anything since then. I don't know, some seem to be doing it wrong ...


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## Daniel James (Nov 29, 2019)

I installed that free distortion plugin today and it uninstalled all my v9 and v10 waves plugins.

Reported them to the better business buereu, that shit is a clear attempt to coerce people to upgrade. You have to jump through a bunch of hoops just to get the older ones working again.

Just as a note, the plugins were working fine _also_ v9 and v11 can work together at the same time. There was zero reason for them to be uninstalled other than to make upgrading seem like the better option. Shady as fuck.

-DJ


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## premjj (Nov 29, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> I installed that free distortion plugin today and it uninstalled all my v9 and v10 waves plugins.



Thanks for the heads up. I won't install it till the issue gets sorted out.


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## Daniel James (Nov 29, 2019)

premjj said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I won't install it till the issue gets sorted out.



Some are saying it didn't happen to them, others are. Seems hit or miss. But yeah, they are a nightmare these days.

-DJ


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## premjj (Nov 29, 2019)

Guess I'll wait and watch. Have deposited the license in my account. In no hurry to start using it right away.

I believe the Waves Upgrades are also 50% off for BF now. Might work out to be a better deal for someone since it automatically updates their Waves Update Plan for a year along with the upgrade to a higher bundle.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2019)

It's not an extortion plan, it's something wrong in Waves Central. I've found when you need to install a new plugin, don't forget to check everything you own, or it will uninstall what you don't check and just install what you do. Though I did think they fixed this.


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## rrichard63 (Nov 30, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> when you need to install a new plugin, don't forget to check everything you own, or it will uninstall what you don't check and just install what you do.


Yes. I agree that this is the case and that it's bad product design. It also means that downloading one new plugin or an update means redownloading everything else, which can take a while.


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## rrichard63 (Nov 30, 2019)

I keep promising myself that I will abandon Waves all together. But some of their products are very good in spite of Waveshell, Waves Central and WUP. So they are still installed on my PC.

If you want to see how to do installation, updating and license management right, look at Toontrack.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2019)

Truthfully, as a PC user, I rarely WUP. I usually just upgrade for a whole lot less. Though once you get to Mercury, you are mostly stuck. And? Version 9 will still work fine. 

If you do decide you need to WUP, do it through everypugin.com - it will always be cheaper than through Waves.


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## premjj (Nov 30, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Truthfully, as a PC user, I rarely WUP. I usually just upgrade for a whole lot less.



I don't think a lot of Waves users are aware of this. An upgrade to a higher bundle includes WUP for one year for all the bundled products and is often cheaper than just buying the WUP for that product alone. 

I've been tracking upgrade options for my products and the prices keep varying depending upon what promotion waves is running. You can wait till the Upgrade price falls and then use that price as a reference to get an even lower price from everyplugin.com or plugindiscounts.com

Please correct me if I haven't figured this out properly.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2019)

premjj said:


> I don't think a lot of Waves users are aware of this. An upgrade to a higher bundle includes WUP for one year for all the bundled products and is often cheaper than just buying the WUP for that product alone.
> 
> I've been tracking upgrade options for my products and the prices keep varying depending upon what promotion waves is running. You can wait till the Upgrade price falls and then use that price as a reference to get an even lower price from everyplugin.com or plugindiscounts.com
> 
> Please correct me if I haven't figured this out properly.


That is the way to do it.


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## Daniel James (Nov 30, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> It's not an extortion plan, it's something wrong in Waves Central. I've found when you need to install a new plugin, don't forget to check everything you own, or it will uninstall what you don't check and just install what you do. Though I did think they fixed this.



In the new one, v9 plugins are not available to 'install' so doing anything would uninstall them. Legacy Products down at the bottom just says you cant do older plugins here you have to do them seperatly. There was literally no reason to uninstall as they were working great and I was given no option to prevent it nor notification it would happen.

-DJ


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## premjj (Nov 30, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> In the new one, v9 plugins are not available to 'install' so doing anything would uninstall them. Legacy Products down at the bottom just says you cant do older plugins here you have to do them seperatly. There was literally no reason to uninstall as they were working great and I was given no option to prevent it nor notification it would happen.
> 
> -DJ



What I understood from the Waves V11 FAQ is that apparently version 9 is offered through a separate offline installer going forward. The new Waves Central can only install/manage V10 and V11. 

So am guessing in case V9 plugins are missing you may need to reinstall and manage them through the offline installer they mentioned.

Not the most intuitive approach by Waves. A lot of people might use the new Waves Central first, before reading the FAQ, and end up with missing V9 plugins.


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## Daniel James (Nov 30, 2019)

premjj said:


> What I understood from the Waves V11 FAQ is that apparently version 9 is offered through a separate offline installer going forward. The new Waves Central can only install/manage V10 and V11.
> 
> So am guessing in case V9 plugins are missing you may need to reinstall and manage them through the offline installer they mentioned.
> 
> Not the most intuitive approach by Waves. A lot of people might use the new Waves Central first, before reading the FAQ, and end up with missing V9 plugins.



Yeah I had to install separate v9 and v10 offline installers to get all my plugins back (installing on the new waves central didnt return my v10) 

And that was my point, v9 and v11 can both work side by side, there was no need at all to uninstall my v9's other than to make it a pain in the ass to re-install so that upgrading would look like the path of least resistance. Thats what being coerced into doing something looks like, either you upgrade or im going to make using the older versions difficult to use until you do. Again they were working just fine at v9.

-DJ


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## steveo42 (Nov 30, 2019)

premjj said:


> What I understood from the Waves V11 FAQ is that apparently version 9 is offered through a separate offline installer going forward. The new Waves Central can only install/manage V10 and V11.
> 
> So am guessing in case V9 plugins are missing you may need to reinstall and manage them through the offline installer they mentioned.
> 
> Not the most intuitive approach by Waves. A lot of people might use the new Waves Central first, before reading the FAQ, and end up with missing V9 plugins.



When I picked up The Gold Collection v10 the instructions with Wave Central specifically stated that the V9 versions of any plugins I already had installed or were planning on installing had to be managed by a separate installer.

I'm suspecting v11 is the same as v10 was at the time.

Look here:









Download V9 | Waves


Download the Waves V9 legacy version compatible with your system. Available versions are V9.3, V9.6 and V9.92.




www.waves.com





And for a thread, here:






Anyone install Waves plugins since the V10 upgrade?


I bought Waves Kramer Master without thinking about the V10 upgrade. I am hearing horror stories about people losing all of their Waves plugins with the upgrade. I would like to install my new purchase without having to pay for the upgrade, but when I run Waves Central I get an 'Update...




vi-control.net


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## premjj (Nov 30, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> make it a pain in the ass to re-install so that upgrading would look like the path of least resistance. Thats what being coerced into doing something looks like, either you upgrade or im going to make using the older versions difficult to use until you do.



Hope Waves is reading this. And this point has been brought up here before too. So maybe it deserves attention by the company in a permanent manner first instead of another new version release.

Am sure they have a large enough customer base already to not warrant any underhand approaches for securing WUP/Upgrade sales.


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## premjj (Nov 30, 2019)

steveo42 said:


> When I picked up The Gold Collection v10 the instructions with Wave Central specifically stated that the V9 versions of any plugins I already had installed or were planning on installing had to be managed by a separate installer.
> 
> I'm suspecting v11 is the same as v10 was at the time.
> 
> ...



The thing with company owned installers is that the users would most likely assume that it will take care of all installations, licenses, be they old or new. So when we download a new version of Waves Central, which actually auto updates every time you launch it, we kinda expect the installer to be the single point interface to manage all the company's products/licenses. 

Many have burnt their hands with Waves' current approach so it might be worthwhile for them to relook at it.


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## kgdrum (Nov 30, 2019)

The entire Waves experience from updates dealing with WUP and different Waveshell installers just confirms I probably made the right decision.
I came to the conclusion w/ so many great companies that have amazing plugins that also don’t feel a need to torture their customers are who I’d rather spend my money with. Other developers have figured out straightforward installation and authorization schemes,offer no crazy protocols or procedures with great products so I simply trashed everything Waves in my system and never looked back.
I suppose at some point I could sell my account but I’m not sure it would be a very nice thing for me to do at any cost..........


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## dzilizzi (Nov 30, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> Yeah I had to install separate v9 and v10 offline installers to get all my plugins back (installing on the new waves central didnt return my v10)
> 
> And that was my point, v9 and v11 can both work side by side, there was no need at all to uninstall my v9's other than to make it a pain in the ass to re-install so that upgrading would look like the path of least resistance. Thats what being coerced into doing something looks like, either you upgrade or im going to make using the older versions difficult to use until you do. Again they were working just fine at v9.
> 
> -DJ


You're right. It shouldn't affect the older plugins if it won't let you manage them from the same place. That is messed up.


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## steveo42 (Dec 1, 2019)

premjj said:


> The thing with company owned installers is that the users would most likely assume that it will take care of all installations, licenses, be they old or new. So when we download a new version of Waves Central, which actually auto updates every time you launch it, we kinda expect the installer to be the single point interface to manage all the company's products/licenses.
> 
> Many have burnt their hands with Waves' current approach so it might be worthwhile for them to relook at it.



Absolutely and that was the mistake I made as well. I wrongly assumed the v10 installer was a super set of the v9 installer. Wrong. The fix was easy but it should not have occurred in the first place.

Overall I find Waves install process to be convoluted and confusing.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 1, 2019)

steveo42 said:


> Overall I find Waves install process to be convoluted and confusing.


The only possible area of disagreement about this is whether or not it's on purpose. Several of us suspect that it is. I'm almost convinced of that as well.


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## kitekrazy (Dec 1, 2019)

premjj said:


> *I don't think a lot of Waves users are aware of this.* An upgrade to a higher bundle includes WUP for one year for all the bundled products and is often cheaper than just buying the WUP for that product alone.
> 
> I've been tracking upgrade options for my products and the prices keep varying depending upon what promotion waves is running. You can wait till the Upgrade price falls and then use that price as a reference to get an even lower price from everyplugin.com or plugindiscounts.com
> 
> Please correct me if I haven't figured this out properly.



Sure they are. Waves has a previous history of pissing people off. There was a 30+ page thread on Northernsounds about people who were no longer going to use them. 

I think their biggest issue is they are the largest developer of plugins and don't have the best way of installing/authorizing. I guess if every plugin was separated into a zip file they would drive users crazy and add to server costs.


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## dpasdernick (Dec 1, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> I installed that free distortion plugin today and it uninstalled all my v9 and v10 waves plugins.
> 
> Reported them to the better business buereu, that shit is a clear attempt to coerce people to upgrade. You have to jump through a bunch of hoops just to get the older ones working again.
> 
> ...



Daniel. Thanks for the heads up. Maybe I'm a cynic but I agree that the free distortion could have been a way to get a lot of people to upgrade. No more Waves for me.


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 1, 2019)

Usually the waves installers have a question somewhere in there you have to answer, and admittedly its not worded clearly, so I have accidentally fallen for that trap too and had to reinstall everything. But there is a question about updating your stuff...and if you say yes, then that is when it does the dastardly thing that happened to you. I have to answer that question no. I haven't tried to install this free thing yet, because I'm still waiting for Waves to send it to me, even though I have asked for like 3 times and they've responded saying it will be on its way within a few hours..I have yet to receive anything.


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## gsilbers (Dec 1, 2019)

lol.. well.. when you have that lingering question as to why waves plugins are so cheap... 

its between "You are the product" and tough upgrade info to get newbies paying WUP. 

im sure you info has been resold and resold by now if you use v9


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## premjj (Dec 1, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> I'm still waiting for Waves to send it to me, even though I have asked for like 3 times and they've responded saying it will be on its way within a few hours..I have yet to receive anything.



Maybe it's the Universe trying to protect your existing Waves installations.


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## playz123 (Dec 1, 2019)

Like many of you, I have grown extremely frustrated after the forced update to version 11 killed all my version 9 plugins. I am now trying to get them back via the 3 GB+ Legacy installer for offline installation. 
I have downloaded the legacy version installer for version 9 plugins and installed the Legacy version of Waves Central. When I open it, on the left it says "Select offline installer". But when, as instructed, I then select the Waves folder on my desktop that contains the Waves Central L and all the plugins, I keep getting this message and nothing appears in "Choose Products to install". When I click on "please click here" in the message, I get the instructions to do exactly what I am doing. What the heck is happening? I am on OS 10.14.6 (Mojave) so AM on a recent o/s.


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## lpuser (Dec 1, 2019)

playz123 said:


> Like many of you, I have grown extremely frustrated after the forced update to version 11 killed all my version 9 plugins.



Officially, Waves version 9.92 is not compatible with Mojave.
The Waves website lists 10.10.5 - 10.13.3.

Waves version 10.x supports macOS 10.11.6 - 10.14.5 and version 11 includes Catalina.

I understand your frustration, but this is really nothing special with Waves. I had this issue with suddenly incompatible installers with many developers.


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 1, 2019)

Uhm, I'm running 9x plugins without problems on Mojave.


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 1, 2019)

They key is, in order to install 9.92 versions of the plugins, you need to download the large legacy installer and unpack it, but DO NOT RUN IT. Instead run the latest waves central. In that latest waves central you can select offline installer and point it to the dir full of 9.x installers and find the ones you own and install them. I just did this recently, on Mojave. I don't know why that compability page says 9.92 is only good up to 10.13. I don't know if it said that a few weeks ago when I installed them on Mojave, but I did and they work fine. I was also interacting with Waves tech support and they knew I was trying to install it on Mojave and did not ever mentioned it would be a problem. If they are changing their official support in some way now, that's kind of lame. There is no reason to upgrade a lot of v9 stuff honestly


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## playz123 (Dec 1, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> They key is, in order to install 9.92 versions of the plugins, you need to download the large legacy installer and unpack it, but DO NOT RUN IT. Instead run the latest waves central. In that latest waves central you can select offline installer and point it to the dir full of 9.x installers and find the ones you own and install them. ETC...


Well, thank you very much for that. As you advised, I used the latest WC and "reinstalled" them. But, nowhere on the instruction page did it say to use the latest version of Waves Central. Yet now, although my version 9 plugins are reinstalled, they are still NOT shown as activated. So how do I reactivate them? My licenses were not removed from my computer so should still be there and show up under "My Products"? That's really been the problem from the beginning. The plugins are shown as installed, but not activated anymore. I've got headache!


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 1, 2019)

I hear you. I was going in circles too trying to use the actual legacy installer. I contacted their tech support and their emails to me weren't that clear either, but eventually I put two and two together about something they said and the instructions I found online for installing 9.92, so it comes down to that.. Use the latest installer, but point it to the offline installer packs for 9.92

If its not showing up in your DAW such as LogicPro, then go to* /Applications/Waves/WaveShells V9/* and run the Waves AU Reg Utility.

I don't disagree with that waves makes all of this way too hard. I don't know if its a deliberate attempt to get people to pay for the update plan more often or just the fact that their entire versioning and installation setup is beyond ridiculously way too complicated. Probably the latter.


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 1, 2019)

If you think you have a licensing issue, I think the latest Waves Central has a license tab, my V9 licenses are all there under Connected Devices.


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## playz123 (Dec 1, 2019)

Thank you again for your advice and the information. Yes, all my licenses are showing under Connected Devices in WC, just not shown as activated in "All Products". Many of the plugins did show up in Logic after running the AU Reg. utility, but not all. In Cubase, some are there and some are not. So still more time required, but thanks again for getting me headed in the right direction. I filed a Support request with Waves on Friday, but haven't heard from them yet. Certainly, if they tell me I need to pay money to update, I'm inclined to just scrap all Waves products and move on. I've spent way too much time on this already. Cheers!


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## robgb (Dec 1, 2019)

Just don't upgrade. I see no reason to at this point.


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## NekujaK (Dec 1, 2019)

15-20 years ago, Waves was the gold standard for plugins, and at the time, nearly every professional studio used them. Waves' update/maintenance policy made sense in that professional context, especially since their plugins were extremely expensive. But it didn't take long for home studios to explode into a huge market that was largely unwilling, or unable, to pay high prices for plugins, so Waves wisely started lowering their prices to appeal to this large emerging market (I never would've thought I'd see the day their SSL console sold for $29, but it happened).

Where Waves is being thick-headed is in retaining their update policy. Not only is there far more competition nowadays from developers who sell superior plugins at very reasonable prices (with no costly update policies), but Waves barely touches their plugins with each update, except for occasional OS compatibility. I mean it's 2020, and Waves still doesn't have a scalable UI... and they still expect me to pay for an update!!??

Maybe someday they'll see the light. But in the meantime, I'm happy using the Waves plugins I have, and won't be buying any new ones.


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## rollasoc (Dec 2, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> Some are saying it didn't happen to them, others are. Seems hit or miss. But yeah, they are a nightmare these days.
> 
> -DJ



That didn't happen to me. Maybe I was lucky?

I installed the latest waves installer. Loaded it up. Only chose to copy the one V11 license I have (Berzerk) only chose to install that one plugin. Installed it. Booted up a project. Tested my V9 and V10 plugins. Then tested the V11 one.

Just never choose the all option with waves.


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## Daniel James (Dec 2, 2019)

rollasoc said:


> That didn't happen to me. Maybe I was lucky?
> 
> I installed the latest waves installer. Loaded it up. Only chose to copy the one V11 license I have (Berzerk) only chose to install that one plugin. Installed it. Booted up a project. Tested my V9 and V10 plugins. Then tested the V11 one.
> 
> Just never choose the all option with waves.



Do you still have an active update plan? or have you ever upgraded? (trying to figure out common threads fro those its happening to and those it isnt) 

-DJ


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## rollasoc (Dec 2, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> Do you still have an active update plan? or have you ever upgraded? (trying to figure out common threads fro those its happening to and those it isnt)
> 
> -DJ



I started with V9. When V10 came out, I saw all the issues people were having and made a google spreadsheet of all my plugins and what version they were on. (which were all V9)

When I got my first V10 plugin, I didn't install it, until I had a few more.

I then uninstalled every wavesshell I could find on my machine. Sent every licence back to the webserver
Did a clean install of all my V10 licences and installed only the plugins marked V10 from my spreadsheet.
Then re-installed the V9 licences and plugins using the offline installer, only installing those marked V9 in my spreadsheet.

Then in a sale, I converted a load of my plugins to some bundles, then upgraded some of those bundles to bigger bundles over the next few sales.

When I install, I only install items per version from the spreadsheet.

All of those V9 and V10 bundles are now out of WUP.

I have a handful of items still in WUP that I have bought in the last year. Having got my V9 and V10 and 1 V11 plugin working fine, last night I did upgrade and re-install my "in WUP" V10s to V11. 

So far it is fine.

So I still have a few V9 plugins (I think about 6) on my machine and a load of V10 plugins and a handful of V11s.

I believe the path to joy with Waves is to be slow and know exactly what you are doing, preferably with a list that tells you what items will work in what installer.

I'm sure it will all go pear shaped, if I ever try and re-install my V10s. But for the moment, I install things on an individual basis and never let the installer blindly install everything.

Yes setting up the list and maintaining it takes a little while, but it takes less time than uninstalling everything and re-installing it again via a couple installers.

Hope that helps.


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## playz123 (Dec 2, 2019)

rollasoc said:


> I started with V9. When V10 came out, I saw all the issues people were having and made a google spreadsheet of all my plugins and what version they were on. (which were all V9)
> 
> When I got my first V10 plugin, I didn't install it, until I had a few more.
> 
> ...


Unbelievable! I mean really, if anyone is required to do all that just to install and maintain purchases, then doesn’t it appear something is horribly wrong with the developer’s approach, and also demonstrates no concern or consideration of the subsequent problems faced by their customers? Certainly, if anyone was ever considering buying something from Waves, they should definitely read your post first. I have no doubt, that if they did, they would probably shake their head in disbelief and reject the idea in a heartbeat! 😄


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 2, 2019)

You don’t have to do all that. When you get a new v11 plugin, just install it and when the installer prompts you with a question about whether you want all updates, choose no


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## rrichard63 (Dec 2, 2019)

rollasoc said:


> [...] Yes setting up the list and maintaining it takes a little while, but it takes less time than uninstalling everything and re-installing it again via a couple installers.


This is essentially what I do. It's a lot of work (as your description makes clear) that customers really shouldn't have to do.


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## Daniel James (Dec 2, 2019)

rollasoc said:


> I started with V9. When V10 came out, I saw all the issues people were having and made a google spreadsheet of all my plugins and what version they were on. (which were all V9)
> 
> When I got my first V10 plugin, I didn't install it, until I had a few more.
> 
> ...



Most of the people the deletion issue has happened to (based on the various accounts of the same thing happening in a waves focused facebook group) have never upgraded before, and many of those saying it didn't happen to them have upgraded. I was trying to work out if the company was 'punishing' those who have never bought into the WUP.

I received confirmation of my official complaint from the Better Business Bureau today, so the company is at least now definitely aware of this issue in an official capacity. I am not really expecting change, hopefully at least a moment of reflection.

-DJ


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## Daniel James (Dec 2, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> You don’t have to do all that. When you get a new v11 plugin, just install it and when the installer prompts you with a question about whether you want all updates, choose no



I was never given that option. This is what it looked like for me, notice no reference to v9 in the main installer, and clicking the install button uninstalled all my other waves. There was no extra prompt about updating, it just installed this one and uninstalled everything else. Notice the legacy products option down the bottom, clicking that just tells you v9 plugins are on their website. Again nothing about un-installing, or fucking with stuff that is working fine. If you can see anything there that indicates its going to fuck with older installations please point it out.


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 2, 2019)

I assure you, when you ran the Berzerk installer, there is a little dialog box that popped open and said something about whether you want "ALL" updated. And listen, for years now people have been stung by this dialog box, because the word "ALL" could easily be mis-interpreted to mean you want all updates for just that particular plugin you are in the process of installing. What it actually means, and is not worded very well AT ALL, is do you want all your waves plugins updated. Then it systematically updates all your plugins regardless of whether you have the license for the newer versions or not. Totally lame, I agree, but still...all you have to do is make sure to not click OK when that dialog is presented to you while you run the plugin installer for the newer thing. 

Listen I agree completely, Waves has a ridiculously over-complicated installation process, and yes its over complicated because they want us to only get updates, even simple version updates that bring no new features...by subscribing to an update plan. I also got stung by this exact thing a couple years ago and had to reinstall everything and I was annoyed as hell. But I can say now, it wasn't that bad once I figured out how to avoid clicking OK on that one question. If they have removed that dialog from the V11 process, that is not good, but I recently did install a V11 thing and I didn't lose any of my V10 or V9 things at all. And I'm confident it was because I did not click OK on that box like I did in the past. After that, if you did, then you will need to uninstall the V10 or V11 versions of the plugins you own V9 license for, and then use the legacy installation procedure to reinstall them.


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## PN99 (Dec 2, 2019)

Same here. Nowhere did it say it will rip away plenty of other plugins, in middle of projects. Just gone, nowhere to find. Unless, of course, you pay 240$. I do have a company in production and booked a studio for this week. I had no choice but to buy the 240$ upgrade, yes, and I did try to reinstall last night before being coerced to buy.

I dont think this is a matter of being ’frustrated’ or ’disappointed’. This is a matter of raising official complaints, to relevant organizations, even legal action, personally I will take it further and demand the money back. Composers and producers should not have to deal with shit like this, it was a very dirty trick, and btw to a loyal customer (with 36 Waves plugins Ive bought individually!)


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## ManicMiner (Dec 2, 2019)

This is why I stopped buying Waves. I have Reaper on PC and I had to clear my plugin cache and re-scan all my plugins everytime I got a new plugin in (with iLok kicking and screaming all the way). 90% of the time I needed to contact their tech support and get them to connect to my PC. Reaper and WavesCentral is not a happy marriage.
If they got rid of Waves central and sorted things out with Reaper, I might reconsider, but at the moment, no more Waves plugins.


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 2, 2019)

Hey I agree there, make a lot of noise about it, because i agree it's lame! Just trying to keep the facts straight so that you or others can avoid giving money to waves to get around this annoyance. Yo don't have to pay. Though in that moment, that was probably the fastest way to get your studio operational again, and I feel your pain completely. When it happened to me a couple years ago and I wasted several hours tracking it down and reinstalling everything and it wasn't that bad once I did that and knew what to do, but it took me a while, a few hours, just to figure out what to do and I was mad as hell about it. Honestly I avoid waves plugins now. I have a couple that I really like, the SSL 4000 pack in particular, but whenever i can, I chose a different product from a different company because their license policies suck. There was a time when waves was the thing everyone needed to have, but now there are many many equally good or sometimes better alternatives...I do like the SSL4000 and some of the abbey roads stuff, but most of the other staple plugins that many people installed years ago and haven't changed a bit since then, we are having to jump through scary and careful hoops to avoid paying a subscription for them...and that is annoying as hell, I do not disagree with you at all, and in many cases, perhaps costly if you don't have time to work it out and avoid the problem. Might as well consider other products from other providers rather then deal with that.


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## playz123 (Dec 2, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> I was trying to work out if the company was 'punishing' those who have never bought into the WUP.
> 
> -DJ


I never bought into WUP either and I guess I was indeed one who was punished this time. 

Dewdman42 wrote: "I assure you, when you ran the Berzerk installer, there is a little dialog box that popped open and said something about whether you want "ALL" updated."

And I assure you that never happened when I installed Berzerk on Friday or the free One Knob plugin today! Same view as Daniel indicated. This is probably why we are reading conflicting comments from different people. Consistency is lacking as well. Another point to add: When I offline installed the v9 plugins again, I could not get Abbey Road plates to register correctly in Logic, no matter what I did..including running AU Reg. "Not a licensed plugin". Today, after I installed the One Knob Wetter plugin, I tried initiating AR again in Plugin Manager... and it worked. No reason as to why it didn't work then worked. Waves is aware of my concerns... as if that will do any good. Still say their approach is ridiculously complicated, whether I've eventually restored everything successfully or not. So thankful for your help though.


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## Daniel James (Dec 2, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> I assure you, when you ran the Berzerk installer, there is a little dialog box that popped open and said something about whether you want "ALL" updated. And listen, for years now people have been stung by this dialog box, because the word "ALL" could easily be mis-interpreted to mean you want all updates for just that particular plugin you are in the process of installing. What it actually means, and is not worded very well AT ALL, is do you want all your waves plugins updated. Then it systematically updates all your plugins regardless of whether you have the license for the newer versions or not. Totally lame, I agree, but still...all you have to do is make sure to not click OK when that dialog is presented to you while you run the plugin installer for the newer thing.
> 
> Listen I agree completely, Waves has a ridiculously over-complicated installation process, and yes its over complicated because they want us to only get updates, even simple version updates that bring no new features...by subscribing to an update plan. I also got stung by this exact thing a couple years ago and had to reinstall everything and I was annoyed as hell. But I can say now, it wasn't that bad once I figured out how to avoid clicking OK on that one question. If they have removed that dialog from the V11 process, that is not good, but I recently did install a V11 thing and I didn't lose any of my V10 or V9 things at all. And I'm confident it was because I did not click OK on that box like I did in the past. After that, if you did, then you will need to uninstall the V10 or V11 versions of the plugins you own V9 license for, and then use the legacy installation procedure to reinstall them.



It didn't attempt to upgrade my plugins. It just removed them.

-DJ


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 2, 2019)

Some of that is due to Apple requiring you to log out and back in for plugins to be recognized by logicpro.


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## playz123 (Dec 2, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> Some of that is due to Apple requiring you to log out and back in for plugins to be recognized by logicpro.


 Good try...but nope. I did everything from rebooting the computer, shutting down the computer opening and closing Logic, running AU Reg.reinstalling the plates yet again etc., but nothing worked until after I installed the new plugin this morning, then immediate success with Abbey Road plates. Mysterious, yes?


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 2, 2019)

Yes mysterious and annoying. Waves is signing their own death warrant with that kind of crap


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## Dewdman42 (Dec 2, 2019)

I found my Berzerk free plugin coupon in the spam folder. Just installed it. You're right I was not presented with a dialog asking me about updating all, but the install worked fine and none of my V9 plugins were removed or deactivated. So... great for me. No idea why it behaved like it did for some others, but I do think waves has made their installation process entirely too complicated.


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## elpedro (Dec 3, 2019)

Uninstalled mine years ago, and never again, even if it’s free. Plenty of other fish in the sea.


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## PN99 (Dec 5, 2019)

I emailed Waves and asked if they have any internal complaint procedure. This is a normal thing in many companies, you can escalate a complaint and get an official response. It is fair for both parties, and basic customer service communication.

Needless to say, the email went unanswered. Having met some people in the industry, it was probably my priviledge that it was even opened - if it was.

Anyway, after thinking for a day, Im quite cool with it, and Im suggesting a new approach to Waves: they should be seen as the embodiment of the music industry, and a ”crash course” in it. The crash course has a price tag of 240$, and the lesson taught is probably worth it. Waves sort of teaches you what the industry also is about, and shows all the pretentious a-holes who have found themselves there too. All newbies starting out, should by Waves plugins, and enroll in this ”lesson”, its a cheap price, and totally worth it, if you get it early in career.


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## premjj (Dec 5, 2019)

PN99 said:


> Needless to say, the email went unanswered.



Can they do that? Aren't they supposed to close every ticket?


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## PN99 (Dec 5, 2019)

premjj said:


> Can they do that? Aren't they supposed to close every ticket?



If they can hijack your projects and force you to pay a ransom, then what is an unanswered email compared to that. Even if it was a nice email asking about complaint procedure. They can probably come into your house too, take stuff of your fridge, and p*ss on the toilet floor. Afterall, they are Waves. I have stared to worship them already as my new masters.


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## chocobitz825 (Dec 5, 2019)

PN99 said:


> If they can hijack your projects and force you to pay a ransom, then what is an unanswered email compared to that. Even if it was a nice email asking about complaint procedure. They can probably come into your house too, take stuff of your fridge, and p*ss on the toilet floor. Afterall, they are Waves. I have stared to worship them already as my new masters.



Come into your house!? That sounds like a nightmare clause of an end user agreement. Better double check it doesn’t also give them permission to turn you into a human centipede that compresses audio.

*TV reference*


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## PN99 (Dec 5, 2019)

I have the best cheeses ready for them and first class wine. All conveniently on middle shelf of fridge. They dont need a key, they can kick in the door and arrive any time they want. Also, cigs can be thrown on floor, and no need to clean afterwards. Afterall, its my priviledge.


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## crossrootsdoc (Dec 7, 2019)

PN99 said:


> I have the best cheeses ready for them and first class wine. All conveniently on middle shelf of fridge. They dont need a key, they can kick in the door and arrive any time they want. Also, cigs can be thrown on floor, and no need to clean afterwards. Afterall, its my priviledge.


What is funny is the irony of the plugin being called berserk


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## PN99 (Dec 7, 2019)

So I got a reply now from waves, 6 days later, to my first ticket. Which I made in frustration. In other words, after chat suggested I email Waves support, it took them 6 days to reply. 

Ticket and reply in next post.


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## PN99 (Dec 7, 2019)

On Mon, 2 Dec at 1:21 AM xxxx wrote:
Thanks guys for deleting my plugins just when Ive booked a studio for mastering. Snap, like that half of my Waves plugins (V9) were gone when I installed the free berzerk and a newly bough VU meter plugin (which I bought). I installed them via new Waves central and it cleaned up my other pluygins which are on my channel strips and master output. I bought for thousands from you, and this was not a nice way to deal with a customer. And it was deliberate.So can you please sort it out so I get my plugins back. I need to cancel my mastering appoinment. Thanks!! How much money do you want for that will 10.000 USD be ok?
—-

Hi xxxx, 

Sorry for the late response. Seems like there was a technical issue with this ticket. 
I would like to offer my personal assistance in this case to get your system back up and running as soon as possible. 
Please download Waves Team Viewer from This Link 
Call +1- 865-909-9200. Extension *4148* 
(or use extension *1* if I’m not at my desk).
The VIP line :* +1-865-909-9268*
You can also reply with your phone number, country code and a good time to call (EST), when you are at your system.
If you prefer to call us at a later time, Please specify your ticket number: 664305

——-

Hi again xxxx, 

In case you wish to try some steps on your own, I think that you system had some older V9 plugins that cannot co-exist with V10 or V11. I suggest to uninstall your V9 plugins and reinstall them again. Follow these instructions:

First, uninstall:

Launch Waves Central.
Go to the Settings page in the bottom left corner.
Under Maintenance, look for Uninstall and click the drop-down menu.
Checkmark the V9 entry.
Delete any V9 WaveShell files you find in the following locations (if exists, the waveshell files will end with 9.xx):
Mac HD > Library > Audio > Plugins > Components
Mac HD > Library > Audio > Plugins > VST
Mac HD > Library > Audio > Plugins > VST3
Mac HD > Library > Application Support > Digidesign > Plugins

Mac HD > Library > Application Support > Avid > Audio > Plug-Ins
Mac HD > Library > Audio > Plugins > WPAPI



Once uninstalled, Install V9.92 following the steps below:

Quit any host application.
Download the v.9.92 Offline Installer for Windows\ *Mac*
Unzip the folder to your desktop.
Launch Waves Central and click on the Offline Installer page.
Under Install From an Offline Installer, click Browse.
When prompted, highlight the Waves- 24.5.18 folder on your desktop and click Select folder/Open.
Checkmark the products you wish to install.
Click Install.
You might need to rescan the plug-ins in Logic Pro X.
Please follow the steps in the Logic Pro X Rescan article.

*Important note - For V9 plugins, make sure to do Step
#5 as follows: 
Go to *Macintosh HD > Applications > Waves > Waveshells V9 * and run the *Waves AU Reg Utility V9*.
Again as mentioned, you are also welcome to call and I will assist you remotely.

Please download Waves Team Viewer from This Link

Call +1- 865-909-9200. Extension *4148* 
(or use extension *1* if I’m not at my desk).


You can also reply with your phone number, country code and a good time to call (EST), when you are at your system.

If you prefer to call us at a later time, Please specify your ticket number: 664305


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## shponglefan (Dec 7, 2019)

This thread has been a highly informative read and makes me never want to purchase a single Waves plugin.


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## chocobitz825 (Dec 7, 2019)

PN99 said:


> In case you wish to try some steps on your own, I think that you system had some older *V9 plugins that cannot co-exist with V10 or V11.*




F#$K waves. this is why i keep losing the v.9 plugins after reinstalling v10/v11 plugins due to errors with my DAW authorizing them. It's such a damn shame because their plugins are useful, and often well made, and are obviously good enough to last a long time. This nickel and dime approach for treating updates like an extended warranty is annoying. Waves are forever gone from my system.


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## playz123 (Dec 7, 2019)

While I am obviously familiar with frustration,  the only comment I will make about communications with any developer is to try to avoid making accusations or employing sarcasm or even being argumentative when contacting them. Negative approaches are simply not conducive to fostering a good relationship with any Tech Support staff member. Basically, IMHO, it's always a good idea to approach others as we would like to be approached as well.
As for Waves, when I contacted their Tech Support last week I did receive the first response within two days, the person there was most helpful and he made sure all was restored and well again before we closed my request. So in spite of any frustration, I would say I was pleased with the support provided...both here and via Waves.


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## Kony (Dec 7, 2019)

shponglefan said:


> This thread has been a highly informative read and makes me never want to purchase a single Waves plugin.


Same - I'll be keeping clear of Waves.


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## tmhuud (Dec 7, 2019)

“the only comment I will make about communications with any developer is to try to avoid making accusations or employing sarcasm or even being argumentative when contacting them. Negative approaches are simply not conducive to fostering a good relationship with any Tech Support staff member.” -PLAYZ123

👍🏻


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## Brian2112 (Dec 7, 2019)

Got a tone of waves plugins. Got tired of their BS and bought the Melda Complete Bundle. Way better plugins anyway and no hassles. Waves plugins sitting on drive unused. Screw'em


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## lp59burst (Dec 7, 2019)

PN99 said:


> On Mon, 2 Dec at 1:21 AM xxxx wrote:
> Thanks guys for deleting my plugins just when Ive booked a studio for mastering. Snap, like that half of my Waves plugins (V9) were gone when I installed the free berzerk and a newly bough VU meter plugin (which I bought). I installed them via new Waves central and it cleaned up my other pluygins which are on my channel strips and master output. I bought for thousands from you, and this was not a nice way to deal with a customer. And it was deliberate.So can you please sort it out so I get my plugins back. I need to cancel my mastering appoinment. Thanks!! How much money do you want for that will 10.000 USD be ok?
> —-
> 
> ...


You see... it's easy... not sure what all the complaining is about...


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## PN99 (Dec 9, 2019)

Hi Xxxx

Just following up on this case from a few days ago. 

Please let me know if you are up and running or you still require my assistance. 

Best Regards,






——-

Thanks for mail. 


If you had checked my account you would see that I was forced to pay the ransom of 240$, as I had no chance to wait for one week for your reply. Chat suggeated me to contact you guys and it took almost a week for the reply. In other words, my plugins are V11 now, I went in the trap you guys set up. It was an inportant week for me, and I have no problem that Waves has an update plan, and I could even have updated, however the problem is that you guys did not inform that "some older V9 plugins cannot exist with V10 or V11". That is to quote you. It is your responsibility to inform this, and not create havoc for your custoners by deliberately not informing it. Some of us have this as a profession, secondary in my case, is that really fair from you to do this type of trick? When our livelihood even relies on that the plugins work. 

I have created another ticket in which I ask about escalating a complaint. 

I expect an apology from senior level management.


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## premjj (Dec 9, 2019)

PN99 said:


> "some older V9 plugins cannot exist with V10 or V11". That is to quote you.



I thought the same plugin cannot be installed simultaneously as v9, 10 and 11. You have to install only one version at a time. Remember reading it in the FAQ somewhere.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 9, 2019)

premjj said:


> I thought the same plugin cannot be installed simultaneously as v9, 10 and 11. You have to install only one version at a time. Remember reading it in the FAQ somewhere.


I'm curious to know whether or not this turns out to be @PN99 's issue.


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## mscp (Dec 9, 2019)

I would avoid WAVES if possible because I had some plugins from the past that I simply had to pay for again in order to keep running with their new "shell".

The way some software companies work is the reason why I still buy hardware.

Fabfilter on the other hand, is an EXCELLENT company. No ilok/dongle, lovely customer service, A+ grade plugins that cover a wide range of applications....

Another one to look into is Plugin Alliance.


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## kitekrazy (Dec 9, 2019)

Melda - lifetime updates, no machine limit. Izotope also doesn't have a machine limit. As for Plugin Alliance they want to push you to a sub. Waves is worse than some requiring iLok, Many iLok plugins that don't need the hardware allow for 2 installs. With Waves I usually have to buy duplicates. I think the problem with Waves is they have so many plugins there's not a good way to make their way of organizing better.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 9, 2019)

kitekrazy said:


> the problem with Waves is they have so many plugins there's not a good way to make their way of organizing better


I agree that dozens or hundreds of plugins are a lot harder to manage than ten or fifteen. But Waves could do much better. (1) When something is updated, download only the updated one, not the whole package all over again. (2) Give the user the ability to turn individual plugins on and off without having to reinstall everything. I own Mercury; it was cheap to buy for what I got but now I pay the price that either every plugin in it is visible to all of my hosts, or none of them are.

WaveShell is essentially a software dongle -- it knows which plugins are authorized and which are not, and exposes to the host only the ones that are authorized. In it's current form, it's unworkable. But the underlying idea (software license enforcement dongle) isn't wrong. Give the user a spreadsheet-style interface -- with sorting and filtering -- that displays the status of each plugin (unlicensed, trial license, licensed but invisible to hosts, visible to hosts) and lets users make appropriate changes. Licensing (and starting trial periods) could be linked to a storefront on the Waves website. Users could be given control over each individual plugin in the bundles they bought. Bandwidth used for downloading could be limited to adding what's new and updating what's out of date.

All of this could be implemented without compromising the license-enforcement purpose of the WaveShell format.

Dream on ...


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## chocobitz825 (Dec 9, 2019)

rrichard63 said:


> I agree that dozens or hundreds of plugins are a lot harder to manage than ten or fifteen. But Waves could do much better. (1) When something is updated, download only the updated one, not the whole package all over again. (2) Give the user the ability to turn individual plugins on and off without having to reinstall everything. I own Mercury; it was cheap to buy for what I got but now I pay the price that either every plugin in it is visible to all of my hosts, or none of them are.
> 
> WaveShell is essentially a software dongle -- it knows which plugins are authorized and which are not, and exposes to the host only the ones that are authorized. In it's current form, it's unworkable. But the underlying idea (software license enforcement dongle) isn't wrong. Give the user a spreadsheet-style interface -- with sorting and filtering -- that displays the status of each plugin (unlicensed, trial license, licensed but invisible to hosts, visible to hosts) and lets users make appropriate changes. Licensing (and starting trial periods) could be linked to a storefront on the Waves website. Users could be given control over each individual plugin in the bundles they bought. Bandwidth used for downloading could be limited to adding what's new and updating what's out of date.
> 
> ...



It’s a weird combination of all the worst things people hate. They do these vague update plans that almost make it seem like a subscription with a software lock, since your plugins vanish if they’re not the most recent version. We’ve established that you can manually reinstall older plugins, which means the update plan is almost a convenience tax, and they keep reminding you how inconvenient it will be if you don’t update. I already had my problems with the subscription/pay-to-own option they had and that caused hell on my system with authorizations. 

Waves products are not bad, but in this market it’s clear to see that there are countless other user friendly alternatives.


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## Wunderhorn (Dec 9, 2019)

I have one Wave plugin. It's the one that you can use to upmix stereo to 5.1. Love this thing just for listening to music.
But yes, the way you have to administer the downloads/update plan etc. is an unspeakable horror show and there is no transparency about what has been updated and when and what. I definitely do not intend to get more Waves plugins as long as there is something similar available elsewhere.


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## PN99 (Dec 15, 2019)

So I got the apology from manager level and it satisfied me. I was also told I can continue to go on the complaints road, (and who knows) maybe get some free plugins, but I’ll leave it here. Thats not the point anyway, point is, it pissed me off it nearly destroyed the week when two thirds of all plugins on channel strips were missing. And studio booked. Now, 240$ is pocket money for me at the moment, so I can throw that any day to pay a ransom. So to pay it was not an issue of economics. BUT it has not always been like this, what if me had been struggling with cash, and got put in that ransom place with a busy week in schedule. It could have been a disaster. Life and career hanging on some plugins, projects coming up and snap, all are gone unless you pay.

Also, I was informed in a FAQ somewhere to be find, there is a mention that V11 plugins can cause V9 not to work.

Anyway, Im a fan of Waves plugins, just not this type of stuff, I will be more vigliant next time I open Waves central. In fact, maybe I will never open it again, and maybe consider it too risky to buy a single more Wave plugin. We’ll see about that.


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## Consona (Dec 16, 2019)

Lol, I bought some Waves stuff like 2 days before seeing this thread. Wondering what the future with them holds for me.


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## Synetos (Dec 16, 2019)

I must be an exception to the sentiment of this thread. I don't really have any issues with Waves. From time to time I have, but they always helped me. Sometimes spending hours with me on the phone, only for the issue to be unrelated to Waves products.

Maybe I dont like the marketing gimmicks, but the Waves products are awesome! I love the new SuperRack product. Is it perfect? No! But it is much better than Multirack Soundgrid, which I thought rocked back in the day.

I own just about everything they sell, and run my home studio and live rigs with Digigrid IO. I dont mind paying the WUP. I do it every year, and I have two complete Mercury setups. So...yes...it costs me a bit.

So what? I am interested in Waves success, cause their products help me with mine. Yes I am heavily invested in them, and I do not regret that. I also own all of Meldaproductions, Eventide, Soundtoys, and plenty of others. They are all just tools, and they need income streams in order to stay in business...like any other company. They don't owe me anything.

Most of my problems with DAW/Plugin software, pick your flavor, come from OS upgrades or other driver issues that introduce frustrations. Waves isn't the primary troublemaker, it is Apple and Microsoft. They to have to try and keep everything working on ever-evolving OS platforms.

Offline installers - I also run Soundgrid Studio v9, and v10 Mercury plugs on my Cubase DAW right now...even though I am fully upgraded to Waves V11. The offline installer worked just fine. So, again, I dont share in the frustration. If it works for my setup flawlessly, then the issue isnt Waves...it's mostly you guys not wanting to keep your gear updated (OS, hardware, etc).

Software tech and computer hardware will always be a moving target. If you dont want to upgrade and move with it, then buy analog gear. Oh course, to have all the plugs we use in hardware form would be impossible for most of us.

I am grateful for what we can do ITB with modern recording tech. I still recall my days edit/splicing 1/2" reel-2-reel tape for voiceovers, and the fortune the studio spent on Tascam 24 track recorder back in the day....the million+ spent on studio console, etc.

Today, anyone of us can do all that with a couple grand! That is something to appreciate.

So...Tis' the season for a grateful heart. Maybe find something to be happy about with all your gear, rather than hating on a single vendor as if they are the cause of all issues. Clearly, they are not.

Go write your next best song!


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 16, 2019)

I also never had any real issues with Waves, and therefor get the feeling that this thread is painting a downright catastrophic picture that perhaps might not reflect the general experience.

I got my first Waves plugins in 2012. Since then, I changed several machines and went through 4 versions of Windows. Still never had to pay for WUP yet. I also almost never had any issues with Waves Central and on the few occasions where something got updated beyond my coverage, I managed to resolve things via offline installer easily.

So my experience so far was that I was able to use a bunch of nice plugins for all these years for 29 bucks each, and all it took is being a bit mindful what I was doing when installing or updating stuff. That's crazy. I'm enjoing the ride so to speak.

I'm aware that the ride might not last forever. Of course I know eventually there will be a time where I'm gonna have to churn out 240 bucks if I wanted to continue using all this stuff. Which by that time wouldn't even be much to ask to be honest. And then I can still decide whether I feel doing it. I'm not tied to Waves, I have great plugins from other companies, so no problems there.

You don't have to condemn Waves for all eternity and get totally paranoid about another evil company (while you support demonstrably 100x worse on a daily basis without even giving it thought). Just know the pros and cons of the particular deal.


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## Paul Grymaud (Dec 16, 2019)

*Why Does Waves Keep Harassing Me?*
For good customers only, the black friday offer has become a black whole life offer. It's a honor !
Now, even if You don't need their products, they need your money.
Solution: buy the whole stuff (total bundle), they'll stop harassing You.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 16, 2019)

LOL! I think I have almost everything but the surround sound stuff and I still get emails. But then I usually upgrade rather than WUP. Also, if you want to buy Waves stuff, even WUP, always go through everyplugin.com. They are cheaper than Waves directly and take Waves coupons. And sometimes they have a coupon code though I don't know what it is right now.


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## Synetos (Dec 16, 2019)

Paul Grymaud said:


> *Why Does Waves Keep Harassing Me?*
> For good customers only, the black friday offer has become a black whole life offer. It's a honor !
> Now, even if You don't need their products, they need your money.
> Solution: buy the whole stuff (total bundle), they'll stop harassing You.


YES! I upgraded my Horizon+ bundle to Mercury for just a bit over $700! 

That kinda balances out the fortune I paid for my first Mercury bundle back 8+ years ago...before the prices came down with the overall plugin market. I am now just laying in the weeds waiting for a sale on LV1/64. I owned it, then sold it, thinking I wasnt going to use it without the band being able to do their own IEM Mixes. Well, now that there is a IEM mixer phone app, and I sold my X32 band rig, I think I am going to go back to LV1 again. It would be even cleaner setup that running M32C with SuperRack.


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## novaburst (Dec 22, 2019)

I think the easy way to install waves is get any latest W C then put your license on a USB stick then install your products

and thats it


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## jules (Dec 22, 2019)

Seems the problem occurs mainly on mac os. I’m on windows10, have waves v9/10/11 running fine and unsubscribed from their mailing list so they don’t bother me. Never wup in more than 10 years and never had a single glitch with their plugs. I’ll happily update everything to current as soon as they’ll have resizable guis. Bought rhapsody piano yesterday, installed, works fine. One can live a happy life with waves !


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## premjj (Dec 23, 2019)

jules said:


> Never wup in more than 10 years



Great to know that. Most of might be upgrading out of fear that the plugins won't work if they are too outdated.


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## robgb (Dec 30, 2019)

Brian2112 said:


> Melda Complete Bundle.


The Melda plugins I own are quite good and endlessly tweakable.


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## hwatt010 (Jan 5, 2020)

Daniel James said:


> Yeah I had to install separate v9 and v10 offline installers to get all my plugins back (installing on the new waves central didnt return my v10)
> 
> And that was my point, v9 and v11 can both work side by side, there was no need at all to uninstall my v9's other than to make it a pain in the ass to re-install so that upgrading would look like the path of least resistance. Thats what being coerced into doing something looks like, either you upgrade or im going to make using the older versions difficult to use until you do. Again they were working just fine at v9.
> 
> -DJ


I just downloaded V11 after being suggested by a Waves employee to do so...I am experiencing exactly the same issue you experienced. Pain in the ass indeed!

All my V9 plugins no longer work. I've tried every method available to me via the Waves website. Including version organizer and the V9 offline installer. Nothing seems to work. When I run the offline installer, I receive a message that is unable to be expanded (thank you Waves). It's an image of a red cross, it says 'preparing' underneath, then underneath that it shows the following 'reading/applications/Waves Central.app/C...'. Then gives me two options, 'OK', or 'Contact Support'. Waves are taking so long to reply, and I have projects to finish. 

I was wondering if you or anyone else had a similar issue, if so, how did you fix this?

Cheers!


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## playz123 (Jan 5, 2020)

hwatt010 said:


> ....Including version organizer and the V9 offline installer. Nothing seems to work.
> 
> I was wondering if you or anyone else had a similar issue, if so, how did you fix this?


Not quite sure of everything you tried, but do make certain, when attempting the "offline install", you use the latest version of Waves Central, NOT the one that comes in the version 9 legacy download. That's confused others in the past.


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## Consona (Jun 11, 2020)

So, if I have Waves plugins installed and do not renew my WUP, what happens? Basically nothing, right? Like I'm still on Cubase 6, for all those years, I'll just be on the same version of Waves for another 10 years...


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## doctoremmet (Jun 11, 2020)

Consona said:


> So, if I have Waves plugins installed and do not renew my WUP, what happens? Basically nothing, right? Like I'm still on Cubase 6, for all those years, I'll just be on the same version of Waves for another 10 years...


Nothing happens. All of your older Waves plugins will still work for another ten years


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## Consona (Jun 11, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Nothing happens. All of your older Waves plugins will still work for another ten years


So why are people around the internet so upset about it?


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## doctoremmet (Jun 11, 2020)

Consona said:


> So why are people around the internet so upset about it?


Beats me. But I’m guessing they tend to get nervous when a company urges you to pay a yearly fee for updates and then don’t? Some kind of FOMO? But hey, I pay happily for that to update SOME of my Waves plugins. For those I don’t pay for, nothing happens. I just don’t get any updates. Very easy and fair really... People get upset about a lot of things online... because they have too much time I guess. Waves is very upfront about this feature of their particular flavour of licensing, and this thread’s title just makes me smile. Because one can easily change the frequency of the Waves mailings on their website.... so yeah....


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## robgb (Jun 11, 2020)

Consona said:


> So why are people around the internet so upset about it?


I think they're upset because Waves continuously pushes updating the plugins and continually pushes their update plan, which costs money. The sales tactics are what upset some people, and the pain in the ass it is to install a plugin. They can't install them like everyone else. They have to have their wave shell nonsense instead of individual plugins. It's pointless, because pirated versions of their plugins are all over the place.


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## Synetos (Jun 11, 2020)

Without WUP, you would be stuck on SGv9. SGv11 is awesome! 

I do not understand why people resist paying the WUP fee to support updated software. It's a couple of pizza's, few cases a beer, or earnings from one gig at a pub sort of budget..to keep the latest and greatest Waves plugs to try and keep up with OS changes, etc. 

If you buy Waves, you buy the model. Else just use what you own and move on. You can always sell your Waves plugs. I have many plugs I bought and never use. If I didnt like the Waves plugs, I wouldn't be using them.

Now with the new licensing model, you can use your WUP current plugs on two computers. If that had been in place a year ago, I would not own 2 full copies of Mercury. Now I can use Waves plugs on 4 computers...which is actually what I have in my studio/live rigs.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 11, 2020)

Consona said:


> So why are people around the internet so upset about it?


Apple users mostly. Apple updates tend to break Waves, causing the need to pay for WUP to get them to work again. 

I've only had to WUP once - when ProTools went from RTAS to AAX format. They rest of the time, I usually WUP when enough stuff has been added to my bundle to make it worthwhile.


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## robgb (Jun 11, 2020)

Synetos said:


> I do not understand why people resist paying the WUP fee to support updated software. It's a couple of pizza's,


My current WUP would be $121. That's some pretty fucking expensive pizza.


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## Synetos (Jun 11, 2020)

robgb said:


> My current WUP would be $121. That's some pretty fucking expensive pizza.


Couple of pizza's and a few cases of beer. It's not your favorite pizza and beer you give up. It's the crappy stuff you choose not to buy so you can afford your WUP payment.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 11, 2020)

I'm at the max, so if I get it during a sale from Everyplugin.com, I can get it down to a little less than $225. They have an extra discount. You get a bundle code from Waves first.


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## Morning Coffee (Jun 11, 2020)

I'm still on Waves version 10. It is really not a problem unless your operating system is no longer compatible with it, e.g, you get a new computer that cannot run Waves version 10.

Also, if you have a bundle like I do (Gold bundle), then sometimes Waves might update the plugins or add a new plugin to the bundle. If your WUP is out of date, you will not get the updated version of the plugins or the bonus plugin, but the ones you already own should still work.


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## easyrider (Jun 11, 2020)

WUP is a con....Period


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## doctoremmet (Jun 11, 2020)

easyrider said:


> WUP is a con....Period


Yeah sure. So don’t buy Waves and don’t be bothered then. Oh wait, better stop buying software all together hahaha. I love when people contribute to discussions and then say “period”. Period. 😂


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## philamelian (Jun 11, 2020)

I was avoiding an update for quite some time (version 9) however after the latest Logic update they can not stand. For now I have backdated to my previous logic version as I have some ongoing projects. I need to pay 100 something to WUP sometime soon to be able to use a newer version of my DAW :/ . 
Yes plugin newsletters can get annoying regardless of how fantastic products they develop, luckily they are more keen to obey our unsubscribe preference nowadays.


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## Consona (Jun 11, 2020)

robgb said:


> I think they're upset because Waves continuously pushes updating the plugins and continually pushes their update plan, which costs money.


Steinberg tries to make me upgrade for years (like my Artist version has all those limited tracks and other stupid limitations (that's why I'm thinking about switching to Reaper)), but I've always found some way to deal with those, so... Tough luck, Steinberg.




Waves does not seem any worse than Steinberg to me.  I get some people can have problems with this due to being on different systems and whatnot has been mentioned above, but... Waves just does not seem so evil to me as some people present it to be. 

I still feel like I'm missing something about this whole thing.


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## Morning Coffee (Jun 11, 2020)

easyrider said:


> WUP is a con....Period



I guess it seems that way, but to me, it is just like choosing whether to upgrade to the latest version of Pro Tools to stay up to date, or discontinue for a couple of years and rejoin if you need to in the future. But yes, I would prefer if this was not the case.


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## easyrider (Jun 11, 2020)

Updating my APHEX Vintage Aural Exicter from v10 to V11 brings me nothing...

The cost to upgrade is $26.91....I bought it for $26 So in essence I’m buying the same plugin again for no reason other than a v11 in the code....

Nothing...At least updating a Daw brings something.....


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## dzilizzi (Jun 11, 2020)

Actually, if you aren't at Mercury and need to WUP for some reason, you can upgrade to the next bundle for a lot cheaper most of the time. And get some new plugins. That is what I used to do.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 11, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Updating my APHEX Vintage Aural Exicter from v10 to V11 brings me nothing...
> 
> Nothing...At least updating a Daw brings something.....


Most of the updates are to fix stuff that Apple breaks with their new OS's. On a PC? Or if you stay frozen on your Mac? Why bother. 

Did 11 bring out VST 3? 

My biggest problem with the Waves installer is it no longer properly installs from the Bundle. I select Mercury and only half install. It works better to click on each individual plugin, which is a huge pain. So I am with you on the new installer sucking. On the other hand, I install the licenses to a small USB thumb drive so I can move between computers. It died and I could not get the licenses off it. Even though I didn't have a current WUP, Waves did a one-time reset of my licenses so I could put them on the new USB drive. Normally, you have to have a current WUP to do it. So, I don't mind giving them money every few years to WUP.

Unlike ProTools where you get penalized for not paying the yearly subscription. Though I guess now it is straight subscription when you quit.


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## Consona (Jun 11, 2020)

Waves said:


> You may choose any individually sold Waves plugin as your free one, as long as its “With Coupon” price during the current sale is up to $29.99.


What a shitty sale.  There's no plugin under $30 I'm interested in.


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## Synetos (Jun 11, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> My biggest problem with the Waves installer is it no longer properly installs from the Bundle.


Is that a Mac OS thing? I have NEVER had an installation problem on Mercury with Windows OS.


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## Synetos (Jun 11, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Actually, if you aren't at Mercury and need to WUP for some reason, you can upgrade to the next bundle for a lot cheaper most of the time. And get some new plugins. That is what I used to do.


Yup! Did that last Christmas from Horizon to my second Mercury license. I tend do most upgrades on year end sales.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 11, 2020)

Synetos said:


> Is that a Mac OS thing? I have NEVER had an installation problem on Mercury with Windows OS.


I'm Windows. Maybe it has been fixed. This happened during an install about a year and a half ago. I haven't tried since. And it could be that I had multiple versions. I finally WUP'd everything to 11 during the last sale, as it stopped the stupid trying to deal with 9/10 installer versions.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 11, 2020)

Synetos said:


> Yup! Did that last Christmas from Horizon to my second Mercury license. I tend do most upgrades on year end sales.


You know, I got Mercury a while ago when they went from Native/TDM to just one version. They had a huge sale and I upgraded for what I thought was a great deal. It technically was. But I have seen it a lot cheaper in the last couple years.


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## Wunderhorn (Jun 11, 2020)

I have the feeling that sometimes they want you to update a plugin that actually never got an update except suddenly being called "v11" or whatever.


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## Consona (Jun 11, 2020)

I remember some Verta video where Mike's talking about not having anything in his computer updated for years and years, because everything works as is.





I just don't have enough money to have separate machines for all the stuff I do, but that attitude is something I can get behind. Like my phone is round 20 years old and I don't have any problem receiving calls so... yeah. I hope my Waves will work for at least another 10 years without any need for WUP.


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## easyrider (Jun 11, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Most of the updates are to fix stuff that Apple breaks with their new OS's. On a PC? Or if you stay frozen on your Mac? Why bother.



I'm on windows 10 pro


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## easyrider (Jun 11, 2020)

Wunderhorn said:


> I have the feeling that sometimes they want you to update a plugin that actually never got an update except suddenly being called "v11" or whatever.



Exactly...At Lease PA bring meaningful updates like GUI resize on the Vertigo VSM-3 for FREE

WUP Is a disguised Subscription model...Nothing more nothing less.


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## dzilizzi (Jun 11, 2020)

easyrider said:


> I'm on windows 10 pro


So you don't really need to WUP. 

Most of the complaints I hear come from Apple users because OS upgrades break the code. This has been a problem for many years. Because PC is primarily sold to business clients, many with very expensive special programs that only work for their business, Microsoft makes backwards compatibility a priority. I can still run XP programs on my Windows 10 computer. Apple doesn't feel the need to deal with it, so if you need specific compatibility, you have to freeze your machine at an OS that works. This is why you hear a lot of composers say they just don't upgrade anything. But if it works, that is great.


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## Synetos (Aug 26, 2020)

This time around I did a backwards upgrade. I used my Voucher to top off my second Mercury bundle.

I now have two fully WUP'd copies of Mercury + Studio Classics, eMotion LV1/64, SuperRack/64, SGS/64 with WUP good though 6/2022. It cost me a bit over $500. 

The jump from v9 to v11 was so worth the upgrade. But, it is hard to argue that it is a bit of a subscription model.

I guess I technically have 4 licenses for Mercury/Studio Classic now. I only have 3 computers, so it doesnt really do much good. I should try to find a buyer for one of my Mercury/Studio Classics. Then again, I like all the things Waves has been doing, so I am fine with supporting them every year.


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## Keano12 (Jun 3, 2022)

rollasoc said:


> I started with V9. When V10 came out, I saw all the issues people were having and made a google spreadsheet of all my plugins and what version they were on. (which were all V9)
> 
> When I got my first V10 plugin, I didn't install it, until I had a few more.
> 
> ...


Hi. I’m losing my mind. My v9’s always no problem. I bought some plugins which turned out will only work with newer version of my daw which means updating my OS I don’t want to do right now. So if my plugins work as v11. 

So I downloaded v13 and all my v11 plugins show but not v9 which we’re working fine. If I pay this WUP thing will my v9’s work with my v11’s? 

It’s super confusing to me. I hate.


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## novaburst (Jun 4, 2022)

You can do an offline install for v9 put v9 license in the cloud, install the v9 software and plugins, then use a USB sick for your waves v9 license by dragging the licenses from the cloud


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## Keano12 (Jun 4, 2022)

novaburst said:


> You can do an offline install for v9 put v9 license in the cloud, install the v9 software and plugins, then use a USB sick for your waves v9 license by dragging the licenses from the cloud


I’m trying this. It’s all a pain. Do you know how I can get my purchased CLA EV2 to work. It says it needs Logic latest version which I don’t have but could work to try it out. Since it’s v13 I’m stuck. Can’t even try it out.


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## novaburst (Jun 4, 2022)

The offline V9 Wave central and the latest wave Central should co exist on the same system.
try deleting the latest version and reinstalling , 

I am using Windows machine and Cubase and do not have the latest version only V9 and A USB stick for licenses and its all offline no need for internet,

It was a little confusing at first to get it all up and running and there was a little trail and era for me too


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