# Any work-flow suggestions for composers with RSI or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome?



## blakeklondike (Jun 14, 2021)

Getting back into computer mixing and composing full-time and worried about my hands. Can anyone share workflow ideas or general strategies for avoiding RSI? Thanks!


----------



## JohnG (Jun 14, 2021)

Periodically, I change the hand that controls the mouse, switching from right to left or left to right.


----------



## veranad (Jun 14, 2021)

The only thing that comes to mind is the use of a trackball (especially one that can be used by both hands, so that you can start to use the other hand). 

I had a similar problem and changed to a trackball and my hand improved a lot. 

Good luck!


----------



## chillbot (Jun 14, 2021)

JohnG said:


> Periodically, I change the hand that controls the mouse, switching from right to left or left to right.


I do this, and now both hands hurt. But I'm a lot of years in. Seriously get two mouses one for each hand it helps a lot, and also allows you to play the piano treble or bass conveniently with whichever hand is not mousing. I'm also a big fan of the vertical mouse, as well as you can get a foot-clicker to click with your feet.


----------



## el-bo (Jun 14, 2021)

If you're on a Mac, a Wacom pen/tablet for your dominant hand and a magic trackpad for the other hand. Not sure about suitable trackpad options for PC, but could be swapped out for a trackball (Kensington Expert is a great choice).


----------



## blakeklondike (Jun 14, 2021)

el-bo said:


> If you're on a Mac, a Wacom pen/tablet for your dominant hand and a magic trackpad for the other hand. Not sure about suitable trackpad options for PC, but could be swapped out for a trackball (Kensington Expert is a great choice


thanks! what do you use the trackpad for with your other hand? it seems like it would be hard to get used to.


----------



## Double Helix (Jun 14, 2021)

Because my controller is at a right angle to (the left of) my computer, I find that it's easier to use my left hand (non-dominant) to play in parts rather than swinging around to face the keyboard. Of course, when I am playing in a more technically demanding passage (relatively speaking), it's easy to move in front of the keyboard.
Result is that my left hand is getting more facile, saving wear and tear.


----------



## Alchemedia (Jun 14, 2021)

Do not use a laptop trackpad.


----------



## Double Helix (Jun 14, 2021)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> 2) Ergorest elbow supports
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ergorest has but a single US retailer (Ergo Experts, in Medford, NY); here is a link to the arm rest Henrik B. Jensen referred to:








ErgoRest Articulating Arm Rest


The ErgoRest Arm Rest is an articulating ergonomic support for elbows, forearms, and wrists while computing. It is made from aluminum alloys and tough polyamide nylon fibers. The arm support pad is upholstered with rich, genuine leather for maximum comfort and durability. Durable double support...




www.ergoexperts.com


----------



## el-bo (Jun 14, 2021)

blakeklondike said:


> thanks! what do you use the trackpad for with your other hand? it seems like it would be hard to get used to.


I like the gestures of the trackpad (Tap-to-click, scrolling, three-finger-drag etc.). Also, because using the Wacom necessitates picking up the pen before doing any action, it's nice to have a controller that's in a fixed-position, ready to make quick moves.

I'm also convinced of the utility of using our 'bad' hand, for other benefits:









The Benefits of Using Your Opposite Hand | Grow Brain Cells


Have you ever tried using your non-dominant hand to perform everyday tasks? Learn more about the benefits of using your opposite hand.




www.goodfinancialcents.com





It does take a while to get used to (and I'm still not fluent) For over a decade, I had the trackpad to the right of my QWERTY and the Wacom to the right of that, which presents it's own ergonomic compromises. This current setup give me options


----------



## pinki (Jun 14, 2021)

Take care of your lower back. Do daily stretching exercises and Core exercise such as Pilates. Also Alexander Technique helps. 
It's about how you choose to use your body.
More anecdotally I believe the plethora of gaming like chairs that adjust in every direction and rest on wheels are extremely bad for the body. But that's more my beef.


----------



## Double Helix (Jun 14, 2021)

pinki said:


> . . . More anecdotally I believe the plethora of gaming like chairs that adjust in every direction and rest on wheels are extremely bad for the body. But that's more my beef.


But if a specific chair would improve my success rate wirh Pong, the tradeoff might be worth it.


----------



## SupremeFist (Jun 14, 2021)

I love the Logitech MX Vertical mouse.


----------



## Bollen (Jun 14, 2021)

As someone who has suffered terribly with this my solution was "Diversify"! I have a Logitech ball mouse, a graphics pad for drawing, a Streamdeck and surface controllers. This allows me to work on different stuff on different devices and hence avoid the "repetitive" part of RSI. Haven't had a problem for about 7 years after suffering chronically from it since I was about 18.


----------



## el-bo (Jun 14, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I love the Logitech MX Vertical mouse.


Did the Wacom not work out for you?


----------



## zolhof (Jun 14, 2021)

Back in 2017, I was a wreck due to RSI and sciatic neuritis, the only solution was to improve my workplace ergonomics. The Kensington Expert Trackball put an end to all my RSI problems, I can't recommend it enough. I also got a Cavaletti C3 chair, after much trial and error, that provides proper lower lumbar support and the relief was immediate. Having my most used gear at arm's length made a huge impact on quality of life and productivity.


----------



## Soundbed (Jun 14, 2021)

1. Vertical Mouse — I typically use Evoluent.

2. proper ergonomics / positioning

3. stretch those wrists, arms and shoulders 

4. enough rest


----------



## SupremeFist (Jun 14, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Did the Wacom not work out for you?


It did not, despite your very helpful advice! But now I'm using the vertical mouse with the other hand and it's a huge improvement over an ordinary one for my physiology.


----------



## el-bo (Jun 14, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> It did not, despite your very helpful advice! But now I'm using the vertical mouse with the other hand and it's a huge improvement over an ordinary one for my physiology.


Curious as to what it was that you didn't really take to. It's a shame, and I feel a little bad for suggesting it.

I did try a vertical mouse, many years back. The upright position was a definit eimprovement over a standard mouse (Pronating and gripping is a bad combination), but i still had issues from all the clicking and the full arm movement.


----------



## AEF (Jun 15, 2021)

I have struggled with RSI as a professional pianist for almost two decades.

Referred pain and trigger points are actual things and understanding where yours are is a game changer.

I have also found using KT tape over the wrists to be invaluable. A half strip across the width of the wrist at the crease before the palm has worked wonders for me.

Finally, key commands and ipad shortcuts are huge. I prefer a trackpad, but for some they are worse.


----------



## Erik (Jun 16, 2021)

You also might try NIB software. It diminishes your mouse clicks with a substantial percentage.
It can change your mouse in a sort of drawing pencil. When using Cubase just press 1 or 8 in ethe edting windows and you're able to select resp. to draw in CC values for example.
It takes only a short time to get used to this software. For heavy duties this has been for me a relief.




__





Nib Click-Less Software - Sieso


Bent u op zoek naar een Nib Click-Less Software of een ergonomische laptopstandaard, een lcd arm, een monitor arm, een muis of een toetsenbord?




www.sieso-ergo.eu


----------



## Ifness (Jun 16, 2021)

Severe repetitive strain injuries in both my arms have been the bane of my musical existence for over 25 years. The best and most productive solution I've come across is to use my feet. I taped (with masking tape) a wireless mouse to a smooth piece of cardboard (with small holes cut out in the cardboard for the optical sensor and on-off switch of the mouse). One foot moves the cardboard around to position the cursor on the screen, and the other foot makes use of two USB foot pedals to execute the left and right mouse clicks. I sometimes also have another four USB foot pedals connected to my computer which are mapped to common key shortcuts. Someone with more crafting skills and tools than me might want to substitute a sturdy thin piece of plastic in place of the cardboard. One detail to note: not all wireless mouses will work in this setup. The wireless mouse pictured below broke a while ago and had to be replaced. I don't remember what brand it was. Currently (and ironically) I have a Victsing ergonomic (vertical) mouse taped to the cardboard.













Can't link the product page on Amazon of the yellow dual foot pedals. Search:
iKKEGOL USB Double 2 Foot Switch Control Pedal Video Game Customized PC Keyboard Multimedia Key Free Drive HID​








Fragpedal Quad – PC Gaming Foot Pedal


[tab: Overview ] The Fragpedal Quad “Gaming From Below The Waist” Winning games is all about fast, strategic, game input, and the 4 button Fragpedal Quad Gaming Footpedal is all about l…



www.gamingmouse.com


----------



## Bollen (Jun 16, 2021)

Funny enough I used to use flight sim pedals for scrolling vertically and the breaks for Page Up/Down... Very useful! But eventually just avoiding repetition was the best cure...


----------



## JohnG (Jun 16, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> 1. Vertical Mouse — I typically use Evoluent.





SupremeFist said:


> I love the Logitech MX Vertical mouse.


I have one of each -- they do help a lot. I have a left-handed Evoluent and the Logitech mouse is called the MX Ergo. AS far as I know, the Logitech is only right-handed and I think it would be awkward to use left-handed.

Changing periodically seems to help me. Specifically, changing which hand uses the mouse and changing back and forth from a "flat" to vertical mouse.

I'm sure it's also good to get adequate rest and exercise [laughs]


----------



## CATDAD (Jun 16, 2021)

Proper posture with the desk and chair at appropriate level so my elbows aren't bent more than 90s degrees and my wrists don't bend upward to their devices. I have my mouse on the right side at a low DPI (800), but also have a trackball on the left (Kensington Slim Blade). I try to use the trackball for everything casual use (browsing, e-mails, system maintenance stuff, etc) and as much as I can in DAW, and save the mouse for small level/pan, MIDI, and plugin adjustments.

I keep the mouse at low DPI specifically so it's easier to make small slow adjustments (on-screen mouse moves less per distance of physical mouse movement), and so that it's annoying enough to move around 2 screens that I default to my left hand Slim Blade that can make big moves more easily. (the idea came from years of competitive first person shooter games!) I also often have left and right click swapped on my mouse because my right hand index finger has previous injuries. So I use it with my right hand, but it's set to work like a left hand mouse, making most of my clicking happen with my middle finger.

I have a small cloth I use as a wrist rest for the mouse, but I don't always use it because a rest can also further compress the carpal tunnel during use which may increase irritation for some people.

Also finger stretches every day, multiple times a day and some grip exercise (for me is primarily chin-ups and deadlifts, but it could be something a lot lighter). Whenever I get lazy with them, some pain comes creeping back in. Grip training is one of those things where if you overdo it it will make things worse, but if you don't do it at all you will have weakness in the muscles supporting the tendons which can cause problems over time.


----------



## Tralen (Jun 16, 2021)

I will be a bit extreme here, but I have a lot of experience with this. Before focusing on music, I was an anatomical painter and 3D anatomy illustrator, working with physiotherapists and personal trainers in rehabilitation.

The solution is always strength. Make the body strong enough so that the stress it suffers from work becomes trivial. If we are talking here about Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (CTS), the reason it happens is because the Median Nerve is compressed by one (or more) of the 9 tendons that run parallel to it. The compression is a consequence of the tendons not being strong enough to endure the workload that they are exposed, and in result they get inflamed.

Even though I don't work with this anymore, I'm still asked regularly to train people, specially elderly people, during recovery. I'm currently training a lady which had a radiculopathy on the lumbar spine and CTS on the right wrist. She underwent two months of physiotherapy and then one month of pilates, without improvement. Within one month of strength training, she was recovered, she is now on the 3rd month, with no further problems. Her training consists only of Squats, Presses and Deadlifts.


----------



## Tralen (Jun 16, 2021)

I will leave an inspirational video for you guys, from a doctor I truly respect, about strength training, in this case, a 90 years man.


----------



## CATDAD (Jun 16, 2021)

@Tralen Squats and deadlifts alone target pretty much every muscle and tendon that is weakened and/or stressed by sitting, and in my eyes should be compulsory for everyone that works at a desk as a form of "training" for their career, the same way it would be for say, a firefighter. You don't need to go heavy, either. Just enough to keep active and keep a certain base level is adequate, and you can use bodyweight replacements if a gym space isn't something you have access to. Even just a half hour every couple days will save someone's body, or help protect what's left of it!


----------



## Bollen (Jun 16, 2021)

Tralen said:


> I will be a bit extreme here, but I have a lot of experience with this. Before focusing on music, I was an anatomical painter and 3D anatomy illustrator, working with physiotherapists and personal trainers in rehabilitation.
> 
> The solution is always strength. Make the body strong enough so that the stress it suffers from work becomes trivial. If we are talking here about Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (CTS), the reason it happens is because the Median Nerve is compressed by one (or more) of the 9 tendons that run parallel to it. The compression is a consequence of the tendons not being strong enough to endure the workload that they are exposed, and in result they get inflamed.
> 
> Even though I don't work with this anymore, I'm still asked regularly to train people, specially elderly people, during recovery. I'm currently training a lady which had a radiculopathy on the lumbar spine and CTS on the right wrist. She underwent two months of physiotherapy and then one month of pilates, without improvement. Within one month of strength training, she was recovered, she is now on the 3rd month, with no further problems. Her training consists only of Squats, Presses and Deadlifts.


This is so true, mind you, it took me ten years to find that I need to do rows for my particular ailment...


----------



## el-bo (Jun 16, 2021)

Tralen said:


> The solution is always strength.


Not playing down the role of strength. However, when I got my CTS I was the strongest I've ever been in my life. During the eight-month lead up to my eventual operations (both wrists) I was working as a labourer and then a job in events hire (This was up to 60 hours, per week). Both jobs involved driving, many hours of heavy lifting (The labouring involved many different 'weighted' movements, of course) and both involved cycling too and from work.


----------



## Tralen (Jun 17, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Not playing down the role of strength. However, when I got my CTS I was the strongest I've ever been in my life. During the eight-month lead up to my eventual operations (both wrists) I was working as a labourer and then a job in events hire (This was up to 60 hours, per week). Both jobs involved driving, many hours of heavy lifting (The labouring involved many different 'weighted' movements, of course) and both involved cycling too and from work.


Well, manual labor is very different from strength training, and it is difficult to explain this to people in rehabilitation.

As I said, you must make the body strong enough so that the stress it suffers from work becomes trivial. In your case, the stress was immense, so you would have to be much stronger to support it. The stress that you are facing everyday cannot be considered training to support that stress itself, by definition.

A person that has back pain doing bodyweight movements during the day will not get strong enough to improve that condition by just doing bodyweight exercises. The body is already adapted to that stress, and that adaptation was proven to be not enough. It is the same with manual labor.


----------



## el-bo (Jun 17, 2021)

Tralen said:


> The stress that you are facing everyday cannot be considered training to support that stress itself, by definition.


That makes a lot of sense. Thanks


----------



## Kaitlyn (Jun 17, 2021)

I had a terrible 2 year stretch with left neck/should/elbow/wrist issues starting from guitar... For a while my left hand was totally numb almost unusable.. Some things I learned to try

Try standing which can give you a different angle..
Try Controller on your lap
Limit to 10-15 minutes at a time. 

Consider your entire arm as a possible culprit. 
The reason is that you may have some trigger points and nerve impingement and have no idea but its the root cause of the whole thing. That's what happened to me... a mild discomfort in my wrist became a nightmare as I "powered through it"

Stretch and Nerve glide shoulder/neck. Do oppositional stretches(both ways)
Shoulder/neck massage and perhaps dry needling... the front of your shoulder under your collarbone is a classic area that gets ignored.. be really gentle with it and don't overdo it.
Over the year I found spots in my body on my neck and under collarbone...once released my entire problem slowly got better but up until then it was getting worse no matter what I did...

The reason (and you may know all this..forgive me if so) is that when you get that damn Carpal Tunnel issue your entire arm goes into fix it mode... and you can develop all kinds of muscle/tendon/nerve problems that build up..especially nervs..

As for strength I started from my core and did light dead lifting and all kinds of core exercies... a strong core is an amazing thing that frees up your entire body to work better for you.. you will sit better, you will stand better, you will put less stress on your arms and legs..


My final thing (and I did this to great effect) is to get out of your comfort zone and let tech lead the way... sequences and automation and modulation.. let serendipity be your guide!! I got very down for a while and that's not good for healing either..

I hope it gets better ... I know the feeling more than I want to say. I still don't play guitar as much for fear of reinjury.


----------



## Tralen (Jun 17, 2021)

CATDAD said:


> @Tralen Squats and deadlifts alone target pretty much every muscle and tendon that is weakened and/or stressed by sitting, and in my eyes should be compulsory for everyone that works at a desk as a form of "training" for their career, the same way it would be for say, a firefighter. You don't need to go heavy, either. Just enough to keep active and keep a certain base level is adequate, and you can use bodyweight replacements if a gym space isn't something you have access to. Even just a half hour every couple days will save someone's body, or help protect what's left of it!


I will add to the list the standing barbell press (The Press). A big consequence of aging (and poor posture) is the progressive internal rotation of the shoulders and kyphosis of the thoracic spine (hunchback). This creates all sorts of problems in the glenohumeral joint and in the cervical spine.

I worked with an elderly man last year (79 years) that couldn't raise his arms above his head, both shoulders were severely impinged. His cervical spine was in permanent extension, to compensate for the kyphotic thorax.

If he had started doing presses 10 years before, he could've avoided those problems.


----------



## Kaitlyn (Jun 18, 2021)

Tralen said:


> I will add to the list the standing barbell press (The Press). A big consequence of aging (and poor posture) is the progressive internal rotation of the shoulders and kyphosis of the thoracic spine (hunchback). This creates all sorts of problems in the glenohumeral joint and in the cervical spine.
> 
> I worked with an elderly man last year (79 years) that couldn't raise his arms above his head, both shoulders were severely impinged. His cervical spine was in permanent extension, to compensate for the kyphotic thorax.
> 
> If he had started doing presses 10 years before, he could've avoided those problems.


I am 58 yrs old and doing this for 2 years pre COVID... WOW. I'm so glad. COVID got me out of gym and I struggled to motivate at home and the difference was very notable. Just gettin back into it now. Weight lifting is also wonderful to help trade fat for muscle and improve your whole metabolism. 

Would you agree that folks doing this should always start with pro help and focus on learning the moves before adding weight?? 

doing it "wrong" doesn't just cause injury, it also causes you to give up and buy into the whole weightlifting is dangerous for older people thing...


----------



## AkashicBird (Jun 18, 2021)

My carpal area used to hurt a lot at some point, bought https://www.amazon.fr/MAD-GIGA-Ergonomique-Ordinateur-Portable/dp/B07FZWKGHK/ref=sr_1_3?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=mad+giga+souris&qid=1624021166&sr=8-3 (this kind of thing) (same for keyboard), stretch once in a while, and now I rarely feel anything. Might depend on the severity of you symptoms tho. Also avoid inflammatory foods. (I stopped smoking and drinking so maybe it plays a big role)


----------



## Tralen (Jun 18, 2021)

Kaitlyn said:


> I am 58 yrs old and doing this for 2 years pre COVID... WOW. I'm so glad. COVID got me out of gym and I struggled to motivate at home and the difference was very notable. Just gettin back into it now. Weight lifting is also wonderful to help trade fat for muscle and improve your whole metabolism.
> 
> Would you agree that folks doing this should always start with pro help and focus on learning the moves before adding weight??
> 
> doing it "wrong" doesn't just cause injury, it also causes you to give up and buy into the whole weightlifting is dangerous for older people thing...


Depends on the "pro" help. A good portion of exercise science today is guided by the bodybuilding mentality, which, in pursuit of aesthetics, uses a training regimen that is not conducive for longterm joint or metabolic health.

The basic methodology of proper strength training has a builtin mechanism to progress and at the same time prevent injury: you increase weight when you are able to perform your sets and repetitions with good form. So the problem, for beginners, is knowing what constitutes good form (and having a good program).

There are good coaches, also online coaches, but there are also forums where you can submit videos of yourself to get a form check. But honestly, unless you have some debilitating condition, you should be able to progress very well with just self-education. That Youtube channel I posted is from a doctor (Jonathon Sullivan) that wrote what I consider a seminal book about strength training for the aging population, which includes programs. The book and youtube channel should have you covered (I have no connection to them).


----------



## AEF (Jun 18, 2021)

this is turning into one of my fav VIC threads ever. so much great advice. RSI injuries are fixable but require commitment and consistency.


----------



## Kaitlyn (Jun 19, 2021)

Tralen said:


> Depends on the "pro" help. A good portion of exercise science today is guided by the bodybuilding mentality, which, in pursuit of aesthetics, uses a training regimen that is not conducive for longterm joint or metabolic health.
> 
> The basic methodology of proper strength training has a builtin mechanism to progress and at the same time prevent injury: you increase weight when you are able to perform your sets and repetitions with good form. So the problem, for beginners, is knowing what constitutes good form (and having a good program).
> 
> There are good coaches, also online coaches, but there are also forums where you can submit videos of yourself to get a form check. But honestly, unless you have some debilitating condition, you should be able to progress very well with just self-education. That Youtube channel I posted is from a doctor (Jonathon Sullivan) that wrote what I consider a seminal book about strength training for the aging population, which includes programs. The book and youtube channel should have you covered (I have no connection to them).


I had a really good coach who was not a body builder. He was very careful with weight but once I got the form down especially for squats and kettle bell stuff the weight got a bit more. I've been at gym and seen the guys overdoing it and they sure don't want to here from me that they are gonna hurt themselves!!! I would say that the feeling of strength and inner power from doing weights (Which i never did for 55+ years) is a wonderful feeling. 

I checked out the youtube channel... thanks for the tip and all the advice!!!  

and I hope the Original poster gets relief ASAP!!!


----------



## blakeklondike (Jun 19, 2021)

CATDAD said:


> @Tralen Squats and deadlifts alone target pretty much every muscle and tendon that is weakened and/or stressed by sitting, and in my eyes should be compulsory for everyone that works at a desk as a form of "training" for their career, the same way it would be for say, a firefighter. You don't need to go heavy, either. Just enough to keep active and keep a certain base level is adequate, and you can use bodyweight replacements if a gym space isn't something you have access to. Even just a half hour every couple days will save someone's body, or help protect what's left of it!


This is great to hear-- can you send any links for what someone without access to a gym would need?


----------



## blakeklondike (Jun 19, 2021)

AEF said:


> this is turning into one of my fav VIC threads ever. so much great advice. RSI injuries are fixable but require commitment and consistency.


So true! It is very helpful to hear about other folks' experience, and how they learned to work.


----------



## blakeklondike (Jun 19, 2021)

One thing I can contribute from my PT: it is important to change the angle of your wrists and arms frequently. she recommended practicing guitar on a stool for 15 mins, side of the bed for 15, standing for 15, etc. Harder to do with a workstation and keyboard, but maybe with adj. chair, standing desk mods, etc.?


----------



## CATDAD (Jun 19, 2021)

blakeklondike said:


> This is great to hear-- can you send any links for what someone without access to a gym would need?


Reddit r/bodyweight Recommended Routine

That's a pretty well-rounded resource to start with, but there are lots of others out there. I would maybe add overhead press with either dumbbells or resistance bands unless you're ready for handstand pushups against a wall, to hit the overhead pressing motion if possible! For pushups if the bent position hurts your wrists you can get pushup handles or use dumbbells as handles if you already have them to keep your wrists straight, If you can't figure out a system for rows, forget about them and do the other stuff, and figure them out later. It's easy to look at a program and go "well since I can't do this one thing right now I may as well put it off".

I agree with that routine mentioning that if you can progress to barbell squats that is probably ideal, but it's worth learning the bodyweight squat variants so you can always do them anywhere, anytime.

If it feels too daunting, start with literally only the squats because they're likely the most beneficial, and add the rest in when you feel like you have a steady commitment. I'm a big fan of starting off with literally the least amount of work, and adding in new factors when the previous ones have already become habitual. Actually it's a lot like learning composition and production in that regard!

If you're looking for something portable because you travel, a collection of resistance bands of varying tension are compact and have many ways to get creative with them to work out the entire body as well. 

Work very slow/light at first with anything that uses grip if you already have issues with your wrists, and ask your PT about any concerns you might have!

This is also all just a general suggestion, I don't know if you specifically have any physical limitations to work with. Working with weights is more straightforward to progress and would likely yield faster progression, but speed of growth isn't that important when it's for the purpose of general body maintenance and if they aren't an option they aren't an option.


----------



## Tralen (Jun 19, 2021)

blakeklondike said:


> This is great to hear-- can you send any links for what someone without access to a gym would need?


@CATDAD gave you great advice, but I will add that, for any pressing movement, you want to learn how to do a Compression Grip (also called Bulldog Grip). This technique is important for you to work your pressing strength without introducing or aggravating any wrist problem.

When pressing, you should not bend your wrist backwards (extension), you should keep the wrist straight and place the load over the Radius (thumb side). The distal end of the Radius is larger exactly to provide stability to the wrist under load.

I made a video showing how one should approach the bar. Notice how the bar is placed on the heel of the palm (Thenar Eminence) and the wrist is not bent backwards. You should do the same with any equipment.

View attachment Compression Grip.mp4


----------



## Tralen (Jun 19, 2021)

Kaitlyn said:


> I had a really good coach who was not a body builder. He was very careful with weight but once I got the form down especially for squats and kettle bell stuff the weight got a bit more. I've been at gym and seen the guys overdoing it and they sure don't want to here from me that they are gonna hurt themselves!!! I would say that the feeling of strength and inner power from doing weights (Which i never did for 55+ years) is a wonderful feeling.
> 
> I checked out the youtube channel... thanks for the tip and all the advice!!!
> 
> and I hope the Original poster gets relief ASAP!!!


Please let me know if you need any advice, I'm posting regularly here at VI-C.

EDIT: Forgot to comment about the mental health improvements. Besides the obvious physical benefits, strength training greatly improves self-esteem, empowerment, sleep quality, diet compliance... The list just goes on and on.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Jun 19, 2021)

Tralen said:


> I will add to the list the standing barbell press (The Press).


One of the most underrated lifts!

How do you feel about stuff like Turkish getups and that kinda stuff?


----------



## Tralen (Jun 19, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> One of the most underrated lifts!
> 
> How do you feel about stuff like Turkish getups and that kinda stuff?


I think the Turkish Getup is a great display of strength, balance and coordination, but I wouldn't really consider it appropriate for general strength training.

I think it is a very nice complement to a routine, even if just for the challenge and beauty of it, but the basic training needs to allow progressive overload, and in an easier to control fashion.

The same is true for calisthenics exercises, or gymnastics. The level of repetitions and athleticism required to progress is way beyond what the population that I usually deal with can tolerate, and they are in a situation where we can't risk any injuries or any further joint degeneration.


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Jun 19, 2021)

@Tralen cool... Any preferred anti-rotational movements? Maces or any of that? Offset carries? Thought about getting a mace actually.


----------



## Tralen (Jun 19, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> @Tralen cool... Any preferred anti-rotational movements? Maces or any of that? Offset carries? Thought about getting a mace actually.


I have to say that the literature on anti-rotational training, which emerged from Functional Training, doesn't convince me at all. All that I've seen has very superficial understanding of anatomy, in particular, spinal and hip anatomy.

If I want to increase the strength of a person in regards to lateral or sagittal resistance, I would simply had them do the basic barbell lifts. Unilateral dumbbell or mace exercises will never produce the strength adaptation of an incrementally loaded barbell, the progression is not even comparable.

People have this misconception that strength is specific, that you need to train unilaterally to confront unilateral forces. This is not how skeletal anatomy works, if you strengthen the muscles bilaterally, they won't fail to act for some reason, simply because they are being loaded unilaterally.

In the case where we had to train people unilaterally, we used unilateral cable exercises. This does occur, but with people with debilitating injuries. When I had a hip injury, I was trained myself in this fashion, but only until I was able to squat. So I believe this concept reached Functional Training, by trying to generalize a concept from physiotherapy that has very specific applicability.

Now, like the Turkish Getups, I believe mace training is a wonderful athletic practice, that can introduce many other benefits. It is great for conditioning, coordination, and, most importantly, it is great for motivation, which is half of training.

My problem with the mace is that it uses a lot of rotational movements, and rotation (combined with flexion) is the most common source of injury to the spine.

Sorry for the long text.

EDIT: When I speak about coordination, don't think it is something minor. Maintaining coordination is absolutely crucial for the elderly population.


----------



## jcrosby (Jun 20, 2021)

My CTS took a ruthless turn last summer. It was so bad that my wrist and forearm were swollen, I couldn't work at all, and it affected my ability to move my neck.

The 1st thing I did that made a huge improvement was to ice wrist and neck every hour. I also found some physical therapy exercises (Linked one of them below....) After about a day I was back to about 75% even though I was pretty much useless the day before... After another day or two I was more or less back to normal. I continued to do the exercises several times a day for a week or so, and now do these as as well as a few others as needed.

If it gets bad enough to the point where you can't work or something swells up I couldn't recommend having an ice pack handy it in your freezer enough... And like how stretching reduces injury I now do the exercises below pretty regularly.


----------



## Kaitlyn (Jun 21, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> My CTS took a ruthless turn last summer. It was so bad that my wrist and forearm were swollen, I couldn't work at all, and it affected my ability to move my neck.
> 
> The 1st thing I did that made a huge improvement was to ice wrist and neck every hour. I also found some physical therapy exercises (Linked one of them below....) After about a day I was back to about 75% even though I was pretty much useless the day before... After another day or two I was more or less back to normal. I continued to do the exercises several times a day for a week or so, and now do these as as well as a few others as needed.
> 
> If it gets bad enough to the point where you can't work or something swells up I couldn't recommend having an ice pack handy it in your freezer enough... And like how stretching reduces injury I now do the exercises below pretty regularly.





Tralen said:


> @CATDAD gave you great advice, but I will add that, for any pressing movement, you want to learn how to do a Compression Grip (also called Bulldog Grip). This technique is important for you to work your pressing strength without introducing or aggravating any wrist problem.
> 
> When pressing, you should not bend your wrist backwards (extension), you should keep the wrist straight and place the load over the Radius (thumb side). The distal end of the Radius is larger exactly to provide stability to the wrist under load.
> 
> ...


that's exactly how it was taught to me!!


----------



## quickbrownf0x (Jun 21, 2021)

Tralen said:


> I will leave an inspirational video for you guys, from a doctor I truly respect, about strength training, in this case, a 90 years man.



Hey, that's three plates on there - pretty darn good. For a 90-year old guy? That's awesome!

Man, I've missed going to the gym. So glad I'm getting back into it too, not just because of what it does for you physically, but for your mental health as well. Especially if you've been on your ass staring at a bunch of screens, in Zoom calls, pushing pixels around or printing stems all day.

And I think it wouldn't hurt to see more people incorporate at least some form of strength training to their fitness regime, instead of (mostly) focusing on doing cardio. The sooner you start, the better if you ask me. As long as it's safe, you make sure you've got good form and realize that it'll be much more like a marathon than a sprint. Long-term health is what you should be aiming for (in my opinion).

My 'numbers' really took a hit though since Covid, Jesus.  But it's getting there. 

Oh yeah, on-topic; make sure to stack your wrists and keep your elbows aligned with your body when you, say, do a squat. There's a bunch of other things that can help you (squat better, more safely), like thumb placement, what type of grip your using (close at around shoulder width or wider), but that also depends alot on your build/genetics. So best to experiment. Oh and don't forget to warm up a bit. And don't ego-lift. Don't be that guy.


----------



## Tralen (Jun 22, 2021)

quickbrownf0x said:


> Hey, that's three plates on there - pretty darn good. For a 90-year old guy? That's awesome!
> 
> Man, I've missed going to the gym. So glad I'm getting back into it too, not just because of what it does for you physically, but for your mental health as well. Especially if you've been on your ass staring at a bunch of screens, in Zoom calls, pushing pixels around or printing stems all day.
> 
> ...


I'm back at the Gym this week, finally!! (that even took me away from VI-C a bit). My numbers reduced considerably, but I was still able to clean my bodyweight today! That is really motivating.

I really wished people took strength training seriously. This mentality that it is only important to young people is so damaging. The older you get, the more you need to preserve your tissue, and not only muscle tissue.

There is an increase in a series of trophic factors when doing the big structural lifts that simply does not occur when doing cardio or lightweight selective exercises. For instance, improvements in bone mineral density, which is critical for the elderly.


----------



## Saxer (Jun 22, 2021)

For me it was all about ergonomic work space. I removed the mouse from the desk and built a mousepad on my arm rest. I bought a chair with adjustable arm rest heigh so I can sit upright and with relaxed shoulders when using the mouse.
Second thing was the monitor screen. I had the monitors placed behind keyboard and fader controllers and I always bent over to see Kontakt's browser fonts. Now my screen is 'flying' one arm length away (fixed by a monitor arm) and I have glasses for that distance.
Using more key commands helps too. But things like template building or plugin editing is still a lot of mouse work.

Since sitting in a relaxed position my wrest problems disappeared.


----------



## BubbaMc (Jul 28, 2021)

Evoluent Verticalmouse, and if you can, take a few weeks off using a computer completely. I had it bad, and these two things solved it.


----------



## Soundbed (Jul 28, 2021)

BubbaMc said:


> Evoluent Verticalmouse, and if you can, take a few weeks off using a computer completely. I had it bad, and these two things solved it.


Evoluent Vertical mouse is my favorite. I have about 6 vertical mouse models (btw mouse is an acronym for manually operated user select equipment - trivia).


----------

