# Plugin for protecting my precious ears...



## J-M (Jul 7, 2019)

So this little thing happened: made music, all good, enabled a track in VEPro and BAM: over 40db of white noise just blasts though my speakers. My poor ears, my poor heart. Apparently this has also been an issue in the past with Cubase and VEPro. Does anyone know a plugin that instantly mutes everything when the signal goes past a set threshold? I'd love insert one in my master chain...


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## heisenberg (Jul 7, 2019)

What about a brick wall limiter?


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## MartinH. (Jul 7, 2019)

MrLinssi said:


> So this little thing happened: made music, all good, enabled a track in VEPro and BAM: over 40db of white noise just blasts though my speakers. My poor ears, my poor heart. Apparently this has also been an issue in the past with Cubase and VEPro. Does anyone know a plugin that instantly mutes everything when the signal goes past a set threshold? I'd love insert one in my master chain...



In reaper you can easily set that up as a function of the DAW with your own threshold. Has helped me multiple times. You should request it as a feature for the DAW you are using. I think it's irresponsible not to offer such relatively simple to implement health safety features.


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## SchnookyPants (Jul 7, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> In reaper you can easily set that up as a function of the DAW with your own threshold. Has helped me multiple times. You should request it as a feature for the DAW you are using. I think it's irresponsible not to offer such relatively simple to implement health safety features.


It's saved me a small handful of times in REAPER. I just assumed it was standard equipment across all DAW's (see what happens when you 'assume').


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jul 7, 2019)

No software can protect your ears or your equipment 100%. There can be unexpected crashes, noise bursts etc. 

The only way to seriously protect yourself is to get a physical monitor controller in the chain. It is well worth the investment.


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## Dietz (Jul 7, 2019)

Tanuj Tiku said:


> The only way to seriously protect yourself is to get a physical monitor controller in the chain. It is well worth the investment.


^^^^^ This!


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Jul 7, 2019)

That sucks. Hope nothing got damaged for real!

Before I defected to Reaper, I used this on my master channel: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/ice9-automute-by-cerberus-audio

Works like a charm.


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## MisteR (Jul 7, 2019)

I second ice9. Always use it.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jul 7, 2019)

Tanuj Tiku said:


> No software can protect your ears or your equipment 100%. There can be unexpected crashes, noise bursts etc.
> 
> The only way to seriously protect yourself is to get a physical monitor controller in the chain. It is well worth the investment.


Amps can also malfunction so I suggest having either your amps or some sort of power switch within reach.


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## PaulBrimstone (Jul 7, 2019)

Looks like Ice9 is no longer available and Cerberus Audio appears defunct...


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## fiestared (Jul 7, 2019)

MrLinssi said:


> So this little thing happened: made music, all good, enabled a track in VEPro and BAM: over 40db of white noise just blasts though my speakers. My poor ears, my poor heart. Apparently this has also been an issue in the past with Cubase and VEPro. Does anyone know a plugin that instantly mutes everything when the signal goes past a set threshold? I'd love insert one in my master chain...


What I would do now is put my ears on rest for 2 or 3 days, I had the same problem and this is what I did. And I must say that in my everyday life I never go outside my home without some protection in my ears !


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## J-M (Jul 7, 2019)

PaulBrimstone said:


> Looks like Ice9 is no longer available and Cerberus Audio appears defunct...



Damn. It would have been better than nothing. Tried searching for it, found nada.


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## JEPA (Jul 7, 2019)

Nugen Audio SigMod






Protect speakers, ears & sanity

Insert the Protect unit across your output bus and this safety module will automatically cut in to prevent bursts of noise or feedback howls due to system errors, saving both your nerves and your speakers. Manual or auto reset options give you the level of protection you need - a real gift when working with headphones!

https://nugenaudio.com/sigmod/


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## Buddy (Jul 7, 2019)

Setup a limiter on your output bus with a threshold at 0dB. 

If a signal limited to 0dB is painful, your speakers are too loud. Calibrate.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 7, 2019)

JEPA has it - Sigmod is the best tool for this. And I do sympathise MrLinissi - I've had that apocalyptic smash on enabling a VE Pro track sometimes. Sigmod has restored my shattered nerves, works seamlessly.


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## Buddy (Jul 7, 2019)

omiroad said:


> The problem with using a limiter is that it affects how you hear anything that peaks or gets close to peaking and you won't even notice it.



If your aim is to reduce the level of things that get 'too loud,' you're going to have to reduce the signal when it overshoots a specified threshold. You've just designed a limiter.


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## Buddy (Jul 7, 2019)

I guess I don't get the prompt. You want a limiter but instead of reducing the signal, it just shuts off your speakers? 

That's either annoying: set at a reasonable level, your speakers cut out every time you were going to peak. Or useless: you set a truly disastrous level you more rarely reach, then +39dB will still destroy your ears but +40dB gets clamped.

And if they do either 'softly,' as in reducing level via an unobtrusive ramp, we're just back at a limiter.


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## JEPA (Jul 7, 2019)

MrLinssi said:


> in VEPro and BAM: over 40db of white noise just blasts though my speakers.


that's why I ended buying SigMod, exactly because of this VEPro failure...


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## J-M (Jul 7, 2019)

JEPA said:


> that's why I ended buying SigMod, exactly because of this VEPro failure...



Currently in talks with Paul from Vienna, he just sent me a demo of VEPro 7 to see if it happens in there as well, another user reported that his problem was fixed in VEPro 7. I'll probably end up buying SigMod...or if Ice9 works as a .dll file without any installation needed, perhaps some kind soul could share it to me via dropbox or something? (The only reason I dare to even suggest this is because it was free when it was available)


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## JEPA (Jul 7, 2019)

MrLinssi said:


> Currently in talks with Paul from Vienna, he just sent me a demo of VEPro 7 to see if it happens in there as well, another user reported that his problem was fixed in VEPro 7. I'll probably end up buying SigMod...or if Ice9 works as a .dll file without any installation needed, perhaps some kind soul could share it to me via dropbox or something? (The only reason I dare to even suggest this is because it was free when it was available)


actually I mean VEPro7, it happened to me with the new VEPro7 version on mac...


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## J-M (Jul 7, 2019)

JEPA said:


> actually I mean VEPro7, it happened to me with the new VEPro7 version on mac...



Well...shit. I'm on PC, so might as well try it.


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## JEPA (Jul 7, 2019)

maybe linking @azeteg to address this problem with VEPro7? could you give us some feedback on this issue? thanks


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## lokotus (Jul 7, 2019)

Had this problem in the past: 

I have solved it for my situation: My Horror Settings were: ASio Guard Enabled in "High" Setting was causing this killing nosie blast / burst effect in Cub 10 Win 10 64bit. TUrning Asio Gard off for VEP has solved it. Also one could try out Asio guard Medium setting but still, be carefull. (I also used maximum buffer setting 4, but I think that doesn´t have anything to do with it)

I highly recommand the free plugin Ice9 on the master bus when working with VEP or noise blast, burst from other plugin, which sometimes happens. https://www.pluginboutiq...ols/72-Utility/2759-Ice9

It will mute the signal over a given threshold, which is much better than using a limiter. 

If you want to test this bug on your system, replicate my horror settings on a big cpu taxing project, turn the monitors levels way down and don´t use any headphones + use Ice9 on the master bus. When you toggle between any cubase internal VI instrument or channels and VEP Channels you might be able to reproduce this.

Thanks, Cheers, lokotus


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## ceemusic (Jul 7, 2019)

Also Ice9 here used to safeguard against Acustica Audio plugins.


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## clisma (Jul 7, 2019)

ceemusic said:


> Also Ice9 here used to safeguard against Acustica Audio plugins.


Care to elaborate? I’ve recently had a wicked burst of 40+ dBs with no explanation (luckily the built-in limiters in my speakers did their job). I use several Acustica plugs...


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## ceemusic (Jul 7, 2019)

This issue was fixed about 2 years ago, if you hit them too hard you'd get an excruciating loud burst of noise. It would typically happen when you'd try driving a pre-amp like h/w. 
Still AA's plugins need to be gain staged or you'll get chirps, weird noise, artifacts. I still use ice9 because AA's in combo with other plugins( like PA's) can still go haywire every so often & blow up.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 7, 2019)

Buddy said:


> I guess I don't get the prompt. You want a limiter but instead of reducing the signal, it just shuts off your speakers?
> 
> That's either annoying: set at a reasonable level, your speakers cut out every time you were going to peak. Or useless: you set a truly disastrous level you more rarely reach, then +39dB will still destroy your ears but +40dB gets clamped.
> 
> And if they do either 'softly,' as in reducing level via an unobtrusive ramp, we're just back at a limiter.



I found a good level on SigMod easily enough that only very rarely triggers in real life - very occasionally when patch-surfing Omni it goes, but I’m pretty glad there actually - but always on a true very loud event. Think it was +8 in my case. And it’s dead easy to reset, I have the settings so it has a pop up window, you can’t miss it, one click to reset.

On VEP, I’m 95% sure my issues were connected to additional audio outs from a disabled plugin that enables. They did try a fix in 6 which I think improved how often it triggered, but certainly didn’t eliminate it completely. Although I haven’t had it yet in 7 (that other person on the VSL forums is me, MrLinissi), I’m not convinced that it won’t happen again, so very happy for SigMod to remain in circuit forevermore.


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## J-M (Jul 8, 2019)

I got my hands on the Ice9, but unfortunately it refused to work properly. Had to buy SigMod, but what the hell, I'll happily spend a little money if it can save my ears. Thanks for the suggestion, @JEPA


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## JEPA (Jul 9, 2019)

MHM


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## rudi (Jul 13, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> In reaper you can easily set that up as a function of the DAW with your own threshold. Has helped me multiple times. You should request it as a feature for the DAW you are using. I think it's irresponsible not to offer such relatively simple to implement health safety features.



How do you set that up in Reaper? It sounds like a useful idea


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## ProtectedRights (Jul 13, 2019)

Buddy said:


> Setup a limiter on your output bus with a threshold at 0dB.
> 
> If a signal limited to 0dB is painful, your speakers are too loud. Calibrate.



That's not all true. Depends on the signal. I once demoed Fabfilter Saturn and when using Feedback it gave me a continuous screech (more ore less a square tone I guess) around 4k that propelled itself to 0dbFS within a fraction of a second. On normal monitoring loudness, a 4kHz signal at 0dbFS already hurts. So even a brickwall limiter wouldn't have me saved of this, it would have to be a specially weighted brickwall limiter.


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## Diablo IV (Jul 13, 2019)

I'd love to have this but on my SYSTEM, not in my DAW. I get these bursts SOMETIMES when quitting Studio one pro or Guitar Pro 7, so a plugin won't do. Now I have to remember if I quit said apps, I mute my interface first... sigh...


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## MartinH. (Jul 13, 2019)

rudi said:


> How do you set that up in Reaper? It sounds like a useful idea


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## rudi (Jul 13, 2019)

Fantastic - thank you for the tip!!!


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## Buddy (Jul 13, 2019)

ProtectedRights said:


> That's not all true. Depends on the signal. I once demoed Fabfilter Saturn and when using Feedback it gave me a continuous screech (more ore less a square tone I guess) around 4k that propelled itself to 0dbFS within a fraction of a second. On normal monitoring loudness, a 4kHz signal at 0dbFS already hurts. So even a brickwall limiter wouldn't have me saved of this, it would have to be a specially weighted brickwall limiter.



You're *definitely* monitoring too loud if 4kHz signal at 0dBFS hurts. Pain threshold is 120dB! Most monitoring recommendations to get in the flattest part of Fletcher Munson curve are in the ballpark of 80dB. No reason to be anywhere remotely near 120dB. For the sake of your ears, turn down your monitors!


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## ProtectedRights (Jul 14, 2019)

Buddy said:


> You're *definitely* monitoring too loud if 4kHz signal at 0dBFS hurts. Pain threshold is 120dB! Most monitoring recommendations to get in the flattest part of Fletcher Munson curve are in the ballpark of 80dB. No reason to be anywhere remotely near 120dB. For the sake of your ears, turn down your monitors!



Nothing to worry, my monitoring levels are totally fine. I wasn't referring to physiological _pain _by the textbook definition, I was referring to an extremely unpleasant experience that I surely want to avoid. In addition these noises don't come in musical context but they can appear from out of silence all of a sudden, which adds to the shock.

Also, if I listen to quiet passages and want to tune some details, of course I turn the interfaces volume knob and temporarily raise the level. If a burst happens in such a time, it's even worse.


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## Buddy (Jul 14, 2019)

ProtectedRights said:


> Nothing to worry, my monitoring levels are totally fine. I wasn't referring to physiological _pain _by the textbook definition, I was referring to an extremely unpleasant experience that I surely want to avoid. In addition these noises don't come in musical context but they can appear from out of silence all of a sudden, which adds to the shock.
> 
> Also, if I listen to quiet passages and want to tune some details, of course I turn the interfaces volume knob and temporarily raise the level. If a burst happens in such a time, it's even worse.



Not judging you and you're free to create your own approach, but the established way to deal with this is to adjust your _mix _levels. You should have a calibrated monitor volume that is safe and comfortable when limited to 0dbFS. In addition to protecting your ears from the bursts you're experiencing, your target loudness level will be familiar to you since it remains consistent.


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## ProtectedRights (Jul 14, 2019)

Buddy said:


> Not judging you and you're free to create your own approach, but the established way to deal with this is to adjust your _mix _levels. You should have a calibrated monitor volume that is safe and comfortable when limited to 0dbFS. In addition to protecting your ears from the bursts you're experiencing, your target loudness level will be familiar to you since it remains consistent.


No that's just not practical. If I have a quiet part in a piece, or a quiet part of an otherwise established mix, for which I want to adjust a detail on a solo or group track, then I don't mess with fader settings but I pull up the volume knob instead. That's just the quickest way. Otherwise I would have to remember fader settings, and I might even forget setting them back to where they were. But this is going a little of topic.

I don't have bursts all the time, I have no problem with that. I had that issue once when demoing Saturn, but I didn't buy it. All other plugins just behave.


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## Buddy (Jul 14, 2019)

ProtectedRights said:


> No that's just not practical.



It's certainly practical to every mix engineer that works exactly like this.

I suspect if you're having trouble with quiet passages being inaudible and frequently need to twiddle the monitor volume knob to accommodate, there's either balance issues in the mix or you're working in a room with a high noise floor.



ProtectedRights said:


> Otherwise I would have to remember fader settings, and I might even forget setting them back to where they were.



Why would it matter if you forget where a fader was? Move the fader to where it sounds right, which is how you decided to set it at its original position in the first place. If that process takes a long time or causes concern, that might be the real issue barring a workflow that has clear advantages like consistent frame of reference for loudness and guaranteed safe levels for your hearing.


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## ProtectedRights (Jul 14, 2019)

Yeah well, i don't really need a discussion about it. my workflow works fine, and btw i know a few engineers touching the volume knob all the time, so no problem there. you work your way, i work my way, all fine.


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## Buddy (Jul 14, 2019)

ProtectedRights said:


> Yeah well, i don't really need a discussion about it. my workflow works fine, and btw i know a few engineers touching the volume knob all the time, so no problem there. you work your way, i work my way, all fine.



Already said I'm not judging you and you're free to take your own approach. Pointing out that there is an established solution to the problem which may benefit you and anyone else dealing with the issue.

Also feel a strong responsibility to reiterate that feeling pain (or an extremely unpleasant feeling, as you later walked it back) at 0dBFS means your monitors are set too loud. Further, not calibrating your max monitor output to a safe level at 0dbFS + allowing yourself to alter the monitor output level arbitrarily sounds like a perfect recipe for volume creep and ear fatigue by the end of the session. 

If you're spending any amount of time working with audio, you really need to be calibrating your monitors to a safe maximum level, otherwise it's very possible to go over recommended exposure limit for the day which can result in permanent hearing loss. Extended exposure to levels that will not necessarily _feel _unpleasant can nonetheless be damaging. Worse, your ears habituate to volume so what might have seemed loud initially will become comfortable quickly (but will still be damaging).

Pushing the point for my own conscience, feel free to take it onboard or no. Going to call that good enough.


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## ceemusic (Sep 6, 2019)

BTW someone on fb posted these dl links for ice9 yesterday.
Here


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## meradium (Sep 6, 2019)

I have had a similar issue in VEP as well. I tracked it down to be a problem of accidentially activating too many channels at once, switching them to auto-record / arm. This would cause a massive spike. Strg+A is no good to clear out a template. Since I know this I make sure I only activate/select a few tracks at a time. Maybe related?


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## Akarin (Sep 6, 2019)

Ice9. I've even updated the Cubase default template to always have it as the last plugin on the stereo output. Saved me many times.


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## heliosequence (Sep 26, 2019)

Ice9 seems to be no longer found on Plugin Boutique's website so it's great that someone posted it here on the thread. I always have it on the master/control room section of each DAW that I use (Pro Tools, Cubase, Reaper, Live, Sonar). It works like a charm and protects against those bursts (it's been a while but Acoustica Acquas used to have them frequently).


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## ReelToLogic (Oct 31, 2019)

I noticed that Sigmod is on sale at JRRShop for $29 instead of $49. I was tempted to get it back when this thread was first created, and this sale helped push me over the edge and buy it.

https://www.jrrshop.com/nugen-audio-sigmod


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 4, 2020)

For anyone looking for it, I shared the last known OSX version of Ice9 here:

https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145531&hilit=ice9#p757888

The windows version is floating around out there, I might even have it somewhere, but anyway, the OSX binary is harder to find, so there it is.

SigMod is very nice also, but it does add 1.3ms of latency, if you care about that. Ice9 does not add any latency, but there is some speculation that it may cause a click when it mutes the audio...if you care about that more than 1.3ms of latency, then SidMod would be the one to use. SigMod has a number of other useful features, but me personally I have leaned towards using Ice9, and set to a value higher than 0db actually... I only want to shutdown audio when there is truly a blast coming through, in which case i don't care about a click, it doesn't happen often and I don't want any added latency, i have spent a lot of money to get my latency as low as possible.

This is better then using a limiter because with a limiter you will not be aware of when something in your mix is too hot. You'll just hear the audio top out at 0db and won't even notice problems. Ice9 and SigMod will cut out audio and cause frustration for a minute while you figure out which channel in your mix is causing the problem and fix it at the source. We shouldn't be running our mixes so close to 0db anyway. You basically just want it to catch the totally out of control blast or whatever from suddenly hitting your ears..which ice9 does very effectively and no latency. SigMod is high quality product and if you need its other features is kind of a no brainier, but the protect feature specifically, does add 1.3ms of latency.


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