# Bernstein’s Harvard Lectures



## Kyle Preston (Nov 9, 2018)

It was another thread a long time ago, don’t remember which one. But @Rodney Money posted Charles Ives' _The Unanswered Question_.

​

I’ve been obsessed with this piece ever since which led me back to the Bernstein lectures of the same title. I watched them years ago, at a time when I was a little too into drugs and had a less than stellar memory. So I watched them again recently on dvd. 

And have to say it’s been one of the best things I’ve done with my time as a composer. I cannot recommend the insights he offers enough. What Bernstein taught me is that we all, every single one of us here, stand on the shoulders of giants; monumental geniuses of empathy and musical understanding. 

I have no idea what tangible impact his lectures will have on my work (or outlook) but I don’t think I’ve ever felt this empowered to keep writing, keep creating and keep working. 

Wanted to share this because it’s too easy to feel cynical about our industry (film, music, licensing, pick your poison). Bernstein offers a view far richer and more impactful than any modern compositional/songwriting advice I’ve seen on YouTube, Google, etc… It’s something missing from the internet these days, that feeling we call *wonder*. 

Bernstein was a _musician that helped musicians_. To me, he feels like the incarnation of my favorite Mark Twain quote:

_“Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.”_

Bernstein is one of the _really great_. I hope his ideas are as inspiring to you as they have been to me. 

*[steps down from soapbox] *


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## Ashermusic (Nov 10, 2018)

They are wonderful, _until_ the very end, when he disses practically all modern serial composers.


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## Bill the Lesser (Nov 10, 2018)

Thanks for that insightful post. I had tons of wonder at age 10, then the world set about grinding it away. Maybe we should teach children to build some kind of firewall around Wonder while they still can access it.

Coincidentally, Youtube immediately flipped over to this after that incredible Ives piece...
.

A really fabulous Ligeti performance. The "top comment" from the King of Penguins is quite remarkable as well, in a bizarre kind of way.

Must look at those Bernstein lectures. I saw a vid of him conducting a teen orchestra "Rite of Spring" performance. He absolutely singled-out and destroyed the hapless percussion guy for being a fractional beat late! I hope that kid recovered, what a devastating experience that must have been!


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## ed buller (Nov 11, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> They are wonderful, _until_ the very end, when he disses practically all modern serial composers.




*yup....kinda agreed with him too. dodecaphony...............Musical Communism. 

best

ed

*


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## ed buller (Nov 11, 2018)

douggibson said:


> ????? Your replies are usually much more thoughtful.




oh trust me...this is the result of much thought. But i guess you disagree . No need to be rude

best

ed


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## jonnybutter (Nov 12, 2018)

ed buller said:


> *yup....kinda agreed with him too. dodecaphony...............Musical Communism.
> 
> best
> 
> ...



What is 'musical communism'?


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## ed buller (Nov 12, 2018)

jonnybutter said:


> What is 'musical communism'?


a land in which every note is equal. Where they all get to be heard...one after the other in order . There is no dissonance...there is no consonance. There is just the notes.

best

e


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## joebaggan (Nov 12, 2018)

ed buller said:


> a land in which every note is equal. Where they all get to be heard...one after the other in order . There is no dissonance...there is no consonance. There is just the notes.
> 
> best
> 
> e



Nonsense, a trivialization of dodecaphony. Composers have used it in different ways, and yes consonance and dissonance come into play just like any other music.


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## Karma (Nov 12, 2018)

Slightly off topic, but on the subject of Bernstein this is also so fantastic:


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## ed buller (Nov 12, 2018)

joebaggan said:


> Nonsense, a trivialization of dodecaphony. Composers have used it in different ways, and yes consonance and dissonance come into play just like any other music.


It isn't Nonsense. It's literally what 12 tone is !.....Berg broke the rules constantly....which is why I like his music a lot . But it's basically unmusical. I dreadful concept and I abhor it. As did Bernstein and many others

best

ed


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## Ashermusic (Nov 12, 2018)

ed buller said:


> It isn't Nonsense. It's literally what 12 tone is !.....Berg broke the rules constantly....which is why I like his music a lot . But it's basically unmusical. I dreadful concept and I abhor it. As did Bernstein and many others
> 
> best
> 
> ed



Could not disagree more. Berg, Webern, and Schoenberg, even Stravinsky, wrote some marvelous 12 tone music.


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## ed buller (Nov 12, 2018)

we will just have to settle at disagreeing . Berg is the only one. Webern's music is execrable. And I adore Stravinsky. But hate his twelve tone music. It's just one of those things. You either get it or don't and I don't. 

best

ed


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## Ashermusic (Nov 12, 2018)

ed buller said:


> we will just have to settle at disagreeing . Berg is the only one. Webern's music is execrable. And I adore Stravinsky. But hate his twelve tone music. It's just one of those things. You either get it or don't and I don't.
> 
> best
> 
> ed


 
And you are welcome to feel that way. 
However, enough time has passed that history has made its judgement and their places as very important and influential figures in music history are now assured, Bernstein not withstanding.


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## ed buller (Nov 12, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> And you are welcome to feel that way.
> However, enough time has passed that history has made its judgement and their places as very important and influential figures in music history are now assured, Bernstein not withstanding.



Serialism was an important part of 20 Century music and it has it's devotees as well as it's detractors that much is true. But I suspect that it's influence and popularity is well overstated ( as friends who write the stuff are finding out ) . Yes in academia ( whom I suspect it was designed for ) it still gets a good look in but I feel in the outside world of concert goers and the like, it's popularity is fleeting. The last Century had so many better musical movements than twelve tone. Minimalism for one for instance, who's influence can be heard in POP music, and many others . Music is something that resonates in a unique way I grant you, and i'm not saying that being popular or not is a defining test of it's quality but Schoenberg failed to grasp the fact that by being so dictatorial in his hunt for establishing a new way of writing music he was stifling a fundamental aspect of the enjoyment of it. I freely admit my dislike started at an early age but many of my friends adored it. At Reading University I helped set up performances of Weben on a few occasions and stayed to try and "get it"....but it just doesn't work. My father was a composer and his dislike of the system almost certainly influenced me too. I have no problem with a lot of atonal ( for want of a better word ) music. I really like Jerry Goldsmiths and John Williams use of it as a pallet in some of thier scores. But again the rules are broken constantly. Satan Bug for instance like Planet of the Apes has rows, But they are used musically. And quite often they are more like pitch set's so that patterns can be established. They Both studied with Ernst Krenek and picked up some wonderful tips. But that's NOT Serialism.
best

ed


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## Ashermusic (Nov 12, 2018)

Well, you can't judge by concert gooers, most of them think music died with Debussy

And I may well have been prejudiced in it's favor by my composition teacher, Avram David, who referred to Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern as "the father, son, and the Holy Ghost."


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## ed buller (Nov 12, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> And I may well have been prejudiced in it's favor by my composition teacher, Avram David, who referred to Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern as "the father, son, and the Holy Ghost."



Hmmmm...he DOES sound like a fan !. I was lucky enough to go see Music for 18 Musicans at the Barbican In London 12 years ago..Sold out very quickly. 

best

ed


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## ed buller (Nov 12, 2018)

No this is lovely. And i'm sorry you don't like the term. It was papa's and I like it 

best

ed


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## ed buller (Nov 12, 2018)

This is from His Best Piece in my opinion. He used quartertones a lot. He also spent quite a long time preparing his Intervalic material. He would construct scales too. usually over several octaves . It was first performed at the Royal Albert Hall in 1980 .



best

ed


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 12, 2018)

Karma said:


> Slightly off topic, but on the subject of Bernstein this is also so fantastic:



I had this on an old clapped out VHS tape that I watched to destruction (taped from TV). God, I loved that doco. My school put on WSS the same year this was aired (quite a coincidence). So much fun putting on that show, and it will always have a special place in my musical experience. I had recently discovered it again on YouTube (thank you to uploaders) and have been feasting on nostalgia.


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## mikeh-375 (Nov 13, 2018)

ed buller said:


> This is from His Best Piece in my opinion. He used quartertones a lot. He also spent quite a long time preparing his Intervalic material. He would construct scales too. usually over several octaves . It was first performed at the Royal Albert Hall in 1980 .
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ed,
Fascinating to hear your dad constructed scales, I do that a lot to generate harmony. What's neat is that you can apply tonal practices to said scales and harmony too if so desired and the techniques are immensely useful for media work too. I've often dabbled in creating aural zones with scales over perhaps 3 or 4 octaves, but haven't got around to writing with them yet. Your old man's piece is dramatic and powerful.
Bernstein wasn't averse to serialism as he used it too, but I suspect he saw it as an emotional resource rather than an artistic creed.
btw I still have the original book and 45rpm records of the lectures.


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