# How do you copyright chord progression cues and earn money from it?



## Leandro Marcos (Apr 18, 2018)

Yes, I know. Chord progressions cannot be copyrighted. But we've all been at the movie theater waiting for the movie to start, and seen all those commercial ads about a new car, a happy family driving down the road, and as background, pop tune with an acoustic guitar playing chord progressions. No melody. Same thing with some orchestral cues, with the string section just playing epic chord progressions...How on earth did those composers copyright their material. And even more, how did they submit a score sheet without a melody at the moment of declaring the cue to their PRO for earning royalties in the future?

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge.


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## Daryl (Apr 19, 2018)

Register it with the PRO. Wait for someone to complain.


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## mikeh-375 (Apr 19, 2018)

ahhh...the immortal problem with using the common stock. As I understood it in my time, if a track brings another track to mind, then it is probably illegal. If a temp of a well known piece was used and the condition above is in evidence, then you may well be taken to court. Obviously close similarities musically speaking are a no no. 
I always sought the spirit of a temp, rather than musical similarity...oh...and almost always lost the job...


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## Puzzlefactory (Apr 19, 2018)

Don’t think you have to produce a cue sheet for adverts. It’s all done with sync deals. 

Personally I’ve never heard just a chord progression in an advert without at least something else going on, but if there is, then it’s probably just a small part of a larger piece that will most certainly have a melody which is copyrighted.


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## Daryl (Apr 19, 2018)

mikeh-375 said:


> ahhh...the immortal problem with using the common stock. As I understood it in my time, if a track brings another track to mind, then it is probably illegal.


That doesn't necessarily breach copyright. The similarity has to be tangible, and to a large degree. Also the "original" composer may have to prove that their track is indeed original, and not generic. For example, just because you use a scale in a track, doesn't mean that nobody else can. The easiest thing to do is find an example of your chord progression in the orchestral literature of the last 500 years, and copy that. Then you are safe.

However, there are many times that claims are brought, but not followed through. A bit like the tax man sending small businesses £200 tax demands, knowing that fighting it is more expensive in accountancy fees than just gritting the teeth and paying it.


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## JEPA (Apr 19, 2018)

i think the timbre matters and measure structure matters. If you are using also the same instruments as somebody else (temp track), same orchestration, same tonality, same measure structure, same rhythm, same tempo, time signature, then is probably sure you get sued.

timbre = for example orchestral, strings
measure structure = ex. 8 measures
instruments as somebody else (temp track) = ex. strings
orchestration = ex. voice leadings
tonality = ex. d minor
rhythm = ex. binary

tempo = ex. 80 BPM
time signature = ex. 4/4
you better make differences off the temp track...


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## Leandro Marcos (Apr 19, 2018)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Don’t think you have to produce a cue sheet for adverts. It’s all done with sync deals.



Sorry. Maybe I wasn't clear. I am not referring to the cue sheet that says "this track was played on TV on May 28th during 29 sec..." Here in my country, when you register your track with your PRO (I am not talking about copyrighting which is a different thing and is also a previous and mandatory step, before registering the track with the PRO) you have to submit a physical music sheet with the melody. Otherwise you cannot register it (registration process that takes place before you have any placements) and you won't get any royalties for every time that cue is performed somewhere.


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## Leandro Marcos (Apr 19, 2018)

As you can see from my previous post, my doubt is not about getting sued, or if it is legal or illegal. It's a previous step: Registering the single track with the PRO so you can earn sync royalties. My PRO asks me for a printed music sheet with a melody. If it's just chords, then what do you do? And I am not talking about a weird situation. I've seen trailers where the music is just an epic 4-chord progression (strings and choir), probably with an ostinato, maybe not. How on earth did they register that track with their PRO? How about your PROs, guys? Do they ask you for a music sheet when you register your tracks with them?


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## Rob (Apr 19, 2018)

can't you register the actual audio file? At least I think this is possible in Italy...


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## Leandro Marcos (Apr 19, 2018)

Rob said:


> can't you register the actual audio file? At least I think this is possible in Italy...


Yes for copyrighting but not for PRO registration.


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## JohnG (Apr 19, 2018)

I think the OP is touching on a subject that I find at least a little bit funny. There have been plenty of composers who, I think, almost verbatim recycled action cues from one picture to another and the _only_ difference was a little monkeying with a motif or melodic element. I sometimes wondered why they even bothered unless it was to honour the bit of the contract that requires that the music be "unique to the picture."

Because in many respects they possessed a constellation of similarities with the composer's other scores.


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## aaronventure (Apr 19, 2018)

This famous video might help (6:30 onward):



Since nothing really happened (except the WB's apology), you can take these examples as a sort of legal limit.

EDIT: Completely forgot this entire video (it's a follow-up):


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 19, 2018)

JohnG said:


> I think the OP is touching on a subject that I find at least a little bit funny. There have been plenty of composers who, I think, almost verbatim recycled action cues from one picture to another and the _only_ difference was a little monkeying with a motif or melodic element. I sometimes wondered why they even bothered unless it was to honour the bit of the contract that requires that the music be "unique to the picture."
> 
> Because in many respects they possessed a constellation of similarities with the composer's other scores.



If this was in fact an issue, we would all be sued LOL! I mean really, we are all just recycling chord progressions anyways. There is no such thing as an original idea anymore.


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## JohnG (Apr 19, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> There is no such thing as an original idea anymore.



There is no such thing as an original idea anymore. [deep irony]


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## Living Fossil (Apr 19, 2018)

...how do you register a composition like the following in your country: ? 

(ps. music can be more than melody...)


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## JohnG (Apr 19, 2018)

Living Fossil said:


> music can be more than melody



OMG -- really? I'm going to write that down...


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## Living Fossil (Apr 19, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> There is no such thing as an original idea anymore.



Maybe there was no original idea anymore 800 years ago. 
Nowadays, i guess, there is plenty of room for original ideas.


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## Daryl (Apr 19, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> If this was in fact an issue, we would all be sued LOL!



As someone who is actually going through this, I can confirm that it's not much of a "LOL".


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 19, 2018)

Daryl said:


> As someone who is actually going through this, I can confirm that it's not much of a "LOL".



No offence intended. Unless something is note-for-note and blatant plagiarism, I don't understand how a chord progression can be claimed as being original...let alone copyrighted. I'm fairly confident every single progression has already been used in the past 100+ years; especially in advertising and trailers.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 19, 2018)

JohnG said:


> There is no such thing as an original idea anymore. [deep irony]



It is deeply ironic. I mean sure, a composer can come up with something "original", but it's going to be a variance of something that has been already written...whether it be music that inspired it (even subconsciously), musical influence, or a combination of both. Just my 2 cents of course.


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## Rob (Apr 19, 2018)

Living Fossil said:


> ...how do you register a composition like the following in your country: ?
> 
> (ps. music can be more than melody...)



that's easy... there's a written score


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## Leandro Marcos (Apr 19, 2018)

I think some of you still don't get what I am trying to find out (no offense!). When you register your composition with a PRO, you are registering the composition and not a particular recording. So basically, if Green Day let's say registered an instrumental version of Basket Case (let's imagine the original Basket Case had never been released), and they register just the chord progressions; with this in mind, they could ask their PRO to pay them royalties each time the Pachelbel Canon is played on TV (if the canon was just chords as well and no melody). Makes sense?


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## Saxer (Apr 19, 2018)

If you finally find a way to copyright chord structures please tell me! I want to claim the twelve bar blues progression! As a reward I'll invite you for a longer weekend to my palace in Monaco.


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## MatFluor (Apr 19, 2018)

Leandro Marcos said:


> I think some of you still don't get what I am trying to find out (no offense!). When you register your composition with a PRO, you are registering the composition and not a particular recording. So basically, if Green Day let's say registered an instrumental version of Basket Case (let's imagine the original Basket Case had never been released), and they register just the chord progressions; with this in mind, they could ask their PRO to pay them royalties each time the Pachelbel Canon is played on TV (if the canon was just chords as well and no melody). Makes sense?



Not that I am reference - but you register a composition to the PRO. In the example of Basket case - you give the PRO the information:

Title: Basket Case
Composer: Green Day
Length: 03:00
(Further information such as instrumentation or the like if needed)

The PRO pays royalties according to *that* information - meaning "which Song, By whom, for how long". You usually don't register "Am, Dm, E" - the musical information isn't provided (except you send the PRO a CD), if somebody drags you to court - it's not the PRO's business (they acted to the best of their knowledge) - PRO's don't handle *copyright*, only Performance and mechanical rights (the latter afaik not in the US).

So - you don't register a chord progression with a PRO - you register a composition, in an administrative sense. If somebody "steals" a chord progression, you sue the copyright infringer, that's not the PRO's job.


Correct me if I'm wrong of course


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## chillbot (Apr 19, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong of course


That's how most do it.

But every country does it different? I've never heard of this but I believe the OP is saying his PRO requires more:



Leandro Marcos said:


> Here in my country, when you register your track with your PRO (I am not talking about copyrighting which is a different thing and is also a previous and mandatory step, before registering the track with the PRO) you have to submit a physical music sheet with the melody. Otherwise you cannot register it (registration process that takes place before you have any placements) and you won't get any royalties for every time that cue is performed somewhere.



Though if that's the case I don't know why you wouldn't just submit a lead sheet with the chords. If you need a melody, just write down the top voice of every chord, that's your melody. Or I'm missing something...


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## Living Fossil (Apr 19, 2018)

Rob said:


> that's easy... there's a written score



...there are lots of electronic avantgarde (non commercial music) pieces that neither have a score nor melodies...
my point was that it's somehow anachronistic to define music that much by "melodies".... Schönberg's idea of Klangfarbenmusik is older than 100 years, so is bruitism etc...


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## MatFluor (Apr 19, 2018)

chillbot said:


> That's how most do it.
> 
> But every country does it different? I've never heard of this but I believe the OP is saying his PRO requires more:
> 
> ...



To be fair - before my PRO made online registering possible I had to hand in a CD with the tracks. Then they made it possible to register it all online - where you just provide the "administrative" information. I think you could add a LEadsheet if needed, or still send a CD if you want.


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## Living Fossil (Apr 19, 2018)

Leandro Marcos said:


> So basically, if Green Day let's say registered an instrumental version of Basket Case (let's imagine the original Basket Case had never been released), and they register just the chord progressions; with this in mind, they could ask their PRO to pay them royalties each time the Pachelbel Canon is played on TV (if the canon was just chords as well and no melody).



No. Chord progressions are not registered. Nor are complex inventions of scales, chords, microtunings, sounds etc.
The registration relies to the sum of the used elements. 
(in a recordings this includes the recording technique.
If there is the impression that the sum of composed elements has a certain creative/intellectual value, it can be registered.


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## Leandro Marcos (Apr 19, 2018)

Yes, I know that PROs don't have anything to do with copyright, but my PRO still asks for the music sheet, which in my opinion is not wrong. It does make sense. However, since the PRO requires you to first COPYRIGHT the composition, and progression chords cannot be copyrighted, then we end up again in the same dilema...


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## MatFluor (Apr 19, 2018)

Leandro Marcos said:


> Yes, I know that PROs don't have anything to do with copyright, but my PRO still ask for the music sheet, which in my opinion it's not wrong. It does make sense. However, since the PRO requires you to first COPYRIGHT the composition, and progression chords cannot be copyrighted, then we end up again in the same dilema...



It sounds wrong in a way - as Living Fossil said - anything that is outside of "traditional harmony" could be very hard to hand in written score for - and in that sense - any composition should be copyrighted as soon as you make it (depending hard on your country) - meaning whatever I do, it is copyrighted automatically - so it's logical that you need to have the copyright to register it - but "officially registering" it somewhere could end up pretty costly I guess...


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## Living Fossil (Apr 19, 2018)

@Leandro Marcos : in fact, this whole topic harbours lots of dilemmas and complexity - and also inconsequences...


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## JJP (Apr 19, 2018)

Leandro Marcos said:


> my PRO still asks for the music sheet, which in my opinion is not wrong. It does make sense. However, since the PRO requires you to first COPYRIGHT the composition, and progression chords cannot be copyrighted, then we end up again in the same dilema...



As Chillbot said, make a lead sheet and use the top line of the chord voicings as the melody. That should be sufficient.


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## Daryl (Apr 19, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> No offence intended. Unless something is note-for-note and blatant plagiarism, I don't understand how a chord progression can be claimed as being original...let alone copyrighted. I'm fairly confident every single progression has already been used in the past 100+ years; especially in advertising and trailers.


None taken. You're 100% right, but it doesn't stop these sort of frivolous cases. Anything to potentially make a quick buck.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 19, 2018)

Chillbot beat me to it.

Technically, chord progressions still have a melody - and a rhythm.

Now, I don't know what the legalities of this are and am not commenting on that, but it shouldn't be hard to come up with a musical pretext for something being an original composition.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 19, 2018)

Daryl said:


> Anything to potentially make a quick buck.



I think you are right...it's always $$ driven. I remember a few years ago when Tom Petty successfully received a settlement from Sam Smith for a song that was similar. IMO, it had a resemblance, but still not the same song. Tom Petty was the king at ripping off the Beatles, yet he had no problem claiming someone else ripped him off...all in the name of royalty money.


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## Desire Inspires (Apr 19, 2018)

Leandro Marcos said:


> Yes, I know that PROs don't have anything to do with copyright, but my PRO still asks for the music sheet, which in my opinion is not wrong. It does make sense. However, since the PRO requires you to first COPYRIGHT the composition, and progression chords cannot be copyrighted, then we end up again in the same dilema...



What PRO are you with?

I am with ASCAP in America and I don’t do any of that stuff.


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## JEPA (Apr 19, 2018)

Desire Inspires said:


> What PRO are you with?


that would be the main question now OP!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 19, 2018)

I've never had to submit sheet music, that is pointless.


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## Leandro Marcos (Apr 19, 2018)

Desire Inspires said:


> What PRO are you with?
> 
> I am with ASCAP in America and I don’t do any of that stuff.



I'm with SADAIC in Argentina. I wonder if I can sign up with any other PRO in the world or you are obliged to do it with the one of your citizenship.


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## JEPA (Apr 19, 2018)

Leandro Marcos said:


> I'm with SADAIC in Argentina. I wonder if I can sign up with any other PRO in the world or you are obliged to do it with the one of your citizenship.


i suggest you call up the office of your PRO and ask directly about your inquiries.


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## germancomponist (Apr 19, 2018)

How do you copyright water, air and human feelings?


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## JEPA (Apr 19, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> How do you copyright water, air and human feelings?



say that to crazy business scientists patenting plants and seeds in Amazonas and South America...


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## gsilbers (Apr 19, 2018)

Leandro Marcos said:


> Yes, I know. Chord progressions cannot be copyrighted. But we've all been at the movie theater waiting for the movie to start, and seen all those commercial ads about a new car, a happy family driving down the road, and as background, pop tune with an acoustic guitar playing chord progressions. No melody. Same thing with some orchestral cues, with the string section just playing epic chord progressions...How on earth did those composers copyright their material. And even more, how did they submit a score sheet without a melody at the moment of declaring the cue to their PRO for earning royalties in the future?
> 
> Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge.




the 1st thing is that in the US, once you write the music, or sequence it then make mp3 etc or have in any tangible form its copyrighted. you dont need to have do anything else to have your music copyrighted. 
In the USA if you want to have proof you made it and made it at a certain date then you can send it to the library of congress. which only holds it like a bank. nothing else. and if in the eventuality there is a copyright issue then a judge/lawyer retrieve it and that way it can be analyzed and checked for dates. 


the main concept of copyright infirgement is dificult. you would think its as easy as i copy the melody of john williams and its wrong. but its a little more intense because it also has todo with intent. which if u count temp tracks... damn its really hard to argue against it. but then we have cases like 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/music-copyright-after-blurred-lines-experts-speak-out-w518206



"When a music copyright lawsuit is filed, both parties will usually call in a forensic musicologist to provide detailed analysis of the two songs in question, examining everything from lyrics, melodies and rhythm to arrangement of instruments, chord progressions and harmonic elements."

and then we have everyone who just tries to do star wars like scores. which williams got it from korngold, well some parts. we all get very into the concept of not copying the melody, but seems thats not the case. its more about the intent. the feel, the chords, the instruments etc. that someone might mistake for the original and therefore profit from it.


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## JEPA (Apr 19, 2018)

i could be billionaire because i composed the melody of the Lord of the Rings years before Howard Shore... I have the diskettes and the cassettes to prove that... but like @gsilbers said: 


gsilbers said:


> because it also has todo with intent



...and Howard never got to hear my melody before...


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## Musicologo (Apr 19, 2018)

I'm not getting the problem at all... Your music has structure and a certain number of measures, certain instruments and not others, and the chords certainly have rhythm and inversions, etc... all that is part of the composition. Just write down the score with all those elements and submit that... some chopin preludes are chords all over... or something like this: http://mos.musicradar.com//images/a...ustic-players-need-to-know/sus-chords-tab.jpg

In a nutshell you don't register a chord progression: you register a structure, a intrumentation, a tempo, a key signature, rhythms, voice leading, etc... that are (hopefully) unique to your cue.


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## SillyMidOn (Apr 20, 2018)

Saxer said:


> If you finally find a way to copyright chord structures please tell me! I want to claim the twelve bar blues progression! As a reward I'll invite you for a longer weekend to my palace in Monaco.


I'll let you have the copyright to 12 bar Blues, but I will claim Rhythm Changes for myself. 

Hahahahaha (maniacal laughter all the way to the bank....)

Wait, and this one, too:


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## MattCurious (Apr 20, 2018)

I'm a solicitor (UK attorney) in my first career. Certain elements of copyright have been harmonised internationally for obvious reasons but there will be quirks across individual jurisdictions - especially where the underlying legal system is fundamentally different (eg Italy is a "civil law" system whereas the US has a "common law" system). You really need to get professional advice from a lawyer qualified in your jurisdiction.


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## Daryl (Apr 20, 2018)

JEPA said:


> i could be billionaire because i composed the melody of the Lord of the Rings years before Howard Shore... I have the diskettes and the cassettes to prove that... but like @gsilbers said:
> 
> 
> ...and Howard never got to hear my melody before...


Doesn't matter. If yours is the same as his, you win.


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## JEPA (Apr 20, 2018)

Daryl said:


> Doesn't matter. If yours is the same as his, you win.


oh really? I CAN PROVE THAT!


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## MatFluor (Apr 20, 2018)

Tip my lawyer gave me all the years back when me and my former band released the first Album:

Send an enclosed letter to yourself (signature - I don't know the right equivalent in english - the kind where you need to sign to receive it). So if anybody claims it's their song - take the closed letter to court, let the judge open it and be done. Since you have an official (postal) date on it, it's legally proven that at least at this date when you sent the letter, the track has been made - ergo you were first (hopefully)


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## JEPA (Apr 20, 2018)

i composed one of the main melodies now known as from Howard, at the most important parts, inclusive with harmonies... the files on the diskettes say the creation date...


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## fretti (Apr 20, 2018)

SillyMidOn said:


> I'll let you have the copyright to 12 bar Blues, but I will claim Rhythm Changes for myself.
> 
> Hahahahaha (maniacal laughter all the way to the bank....)
> 
> Wait, and this one, too:



Even though they rely on the "same" chords/progressions the songs themselves are certainly different (at least most...). Also when I have most of them correct in my head, they have the same "gaps" (aka 4 chords songs) between chords, but I think the key they are written in is different, that is obviously different when they all rely on "Pachelbels chords" as stated somewhere here already:





JEPA said:


> i could be billionaire because i composed the melody of the Lord of the Rings years before Howard Shore... I have the diskettes and the cassettes to prove that... but like @gsilbers said:
> 
> 
> ...and Howard never got to hear my melody before...


I personally hate the word "intend" (Absicht/beabsichtigen I hate even more; as I know you'll understand that). It is the hardest thing to prove, when there are no emails, notes, recorded phone calls or whatever where someone states it was intended to copy a song, a script, a book or to do whatever (with an intention)...as seen with the Pharrell Williams example posted above...
When I hit random keys on the piano, there will be a point where I accidentally hit Beethovens 5th...; but yes writing something like a whole melody for LOTR is obviously something completely different than two notes...
just emphasizing with you here, not objecting; but would love to hear your "LOTR-version" or what you have called it back then


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## JEPA (Apr 20, 2018)

about 25 years.... on a Roland JW-50 Workstation....


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## Daryl (Apr 20, 2018)

JEPA said:


> oh really? I CAN PROVE THAT!


Yes. However, his lawyers are probably richer than yours, and you have to prove that yours is actually original in the first place, and not similar to something that came before. This is quite difficult, as tonal music has been around for 500 years...!


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## fretti (Apr 20, 2018)

Daryl said:


> Yes. However, his lawyers are probably richer than yours, and you have to prove that yours is actually original in the first place, and not similar to something that came before. This is quite difficult, as tonal music has been around for 500 years...!


Stupid question from my side: does H Shore even have the rights for that music? Sure he composed it, but don't Film composers (in that budget area) usually sign of the rights to the production studio (or whatever/whoever gives the contract)?
Seriously asking here.


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## MatFluor (Apr 20, 2018)

fretti said:


> Stupid question from my side: does H Shore even have the rights for that music? Sure he composed it, but don't Film composers (in that budget area) usually sign of the rights to the production studio (or whatever/whoever gives the contract)?
> Seriously asking here.



That's what usually is done to my knowledge, yes. Work for hire contracts. So of course every contract is different.


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## Daryl (Apr 20, 2018)

fretti said:


> Stupid question from my side: does H Shore even have the rights for that music? Sure he composed it, but don't Film composers (in that budget area) usually sign of the rights to the production studio (or whatever/whoever gives the contract)?
> Seriously asking here.


It depends. In the US I believe it is legal to steal a Writers' share, but it is usually given back as part of the contract. However, your argument would be with the Publisher.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 20, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> How do you copyright water, air and human feelings?



Call Gene Simmons, I think he has those covered already


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## MatFluor (Apr 20, 2018)




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## Luke W (Apr 20, 2018)

Back to the original OP, I am interested in how music I would term "underscore" is protected by copyright (obviously it is) as compared to music with a distinct theme. The Star Wars main titles has an identifiable, hummable theme, while much of HZ Dark Knight stuff does not have a clear theme. But both are protected by copyright as musical compositions. Even lifting a few bars of the SW melody would be an obvious infringement, no matter the instruments used. But would you have to lift the Dark Knight with all the orch too before it's infringement? Obviously chord progressions alone may not cross the line, if it's played to a different tempo by banjo and kazoo. Does it just take a lot more directly lifted musical material - chords, rhythm, tempo, instrumentation - to infringe "underscore" music?


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## gsilbers (Apr 20, 2018)

JEPA said:


> i could be billionaire because i composed the melody of the Lord of the Rings years before Howard Shore... I have the diskettes and the cassettes to prove that... but like @gsilbers said:
> 
> 
> ...and Howard never got to hear my melody before...



lol. i guess i should clarify intent to steal it.


fretti said:


> Even though they rely on the "same" chords/progressions the songs themselves are certainly different (at least most...). Also when I have most of them correct in my head, they have the same "gaps" (aka 4 chords songs) between chords, but I think the key they are written in is different, that is obviously different when they all rely on "Pachelbels chords" as stated somewhere here already:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





yes.. the word intent, as so many words that the legal system overcomplicates for this same purpose to get it clear. 

intent would be that you heard lord of the rings, do an exact mockup and uploaded to youtube or itunes/sell cds saying its yours. so the intent was that you intended to profit from others work 
as oppose to both parties did similar work and didnt know,. it was educational, etc. 

intent, is more like its on purpose. like you manufactured a fake prada bag and sell it like its an original. 
but there are a lot of grey areas and dealing w this is way more expensive for everyone. so a random dude selling a prada bag is too little to waste time but the pharrel williams song is a very profitable song.


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## gsilbers (Apr 20, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> Tip my lawyer gave me all the years back when me and my former band released the first Album:
> 
> Send an enclosed letter to yourself (signature - I don't know the right equivalent in english - the kind where you need to sign to receive it). So if anybody claims it's their song - take the closed letter to court, let the judge open it and be done. Since you have an official (postal) date on it, it's legally proven that at least at this date when you sent the letter, the track has been made - ergo you were first (hopefully)




nope. that was clearly a no go in many articles i remember reading. turns out its an urban myth, or had the same concept as sending it to library of congress. but doesnt seem it will hold up in court. if anyone is worry, just send a compilation cd with tons of songs to library of congress. but dont do the postal usps thing. at least in the US.


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## GtrString (Apr 20, 2018)

There are in fact two types of copyright. 1 is the (c) and 2 is the (p). P is the copyright of the recording. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_recording_copyright_symbol

So you may not claim a copyright for the (c), but only for the (p), as the recording also represents a creative work.


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## Ron Kords (Apr 20, 2018)

The thread title reminded me of a Dragons Den pitch where someone did this presentation on a kids numbers game and how it was great and how they had the rights sewn up for the world.

The first response from the Scottish bloke...

'Are you trying to tell me you have copyright on the number 8?! I'm out'


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## Leandro Marcos (Apr 20, 2018)

GtrString said:


> There are in fact two types of copyright. 1 is the (c) and 2 is the (p). P is the copyright of the recording. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_recording_copyright_symbol
> 
> So you may not claim a copyright for the (c), but only for the (p), as the recording also represents a creative work.



and that leads us to another controversial topic: "who owns the master?" But let's leave that one for another thread


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