# INTRODUCING Albion NEO. The next chapter in our bestselling Albion series.



## Spitfire Team

INTRODUCTORY OFFER

*Exclusive savings for Albion customers.*
Save an extra 5% off the introductory price for every Albion library you already own.
Log in to see your discounted price. Or save up to 48% by upgrading to The Albion Collection.
Read more in our FAQs.

Introductory offer ends *February 6th, 2020*.​


----------



## mikeh-375

I hope VI-C have got enough space on the server......


----------



## zimm83

Albion 2 on Spitfire player. Sure .


----------



## zimm83

Would love Kontakt lib...but....


----------



## mikeh-375

..are West Brom moving to a new stadium?


----------



## prodigalson

oy...here we go......


----------



## jamwerks

Recorded at Air or MV?


----------



## Technostica

mikeh-375 said:


> ..are West Brom moving to a new stadium?


Yeah, the Kathmandu 3rd Division.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Albion VI: Frostbite.


----------



## Anders Wall

jamwerks said:


> Recorded at Air or MV?


Or in the air?
Perhaps it’s all air?
Or what if, a Phil “in the air tonight” Collins drum/vocal library?
Oooo. They’ve put Phil on the top of Mount Everest.
Can you imagine the throat singing evos!?!
Can’t wait!
/Anders


----------



## Oxytoxine

I really start to understand now the feeling that many of you have shared here on the forum: Instead of taking the time and fixing at least some of the glaring issues in their very current lineup (yes BBCSO I am looking at you), they seem to move on and push out new products in an ever accelerating manner.

EDIT: this does not make me less excited about the new Albion per se. I love Spitfire, have and use a lot of their their libraries and find many of them to be excellent and the best of their kind. But this point bugs me. I kind of understand the "shell out more products, sell more, get bigger, and growth is necessary in order to survive in a very competitive market" argument. But I believe it's a false dichotomy (that kind of reflects the modern times and associated short-term oriented thinking).

a) simply from a musicians and customers perspective, and

b) also for their own welfare as a company in the long term. Quality (and therefore justified higher price points) trumps quantity and a growing bunch of users of older products with partially unfixed issues that become more and more unsatisfied because of this. Sustainability and an enthusiastic fellowship of customers are, in my view, a more viable long term strategy, also and especially from an economical perspective. History and logic have clearly proven that in my opinion.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Oxytoxine said:


> I really start to understand now the feeling that many of you have shared here on the forum: Instead of taking the time and fixing at least some of the glaring issues in their very current lineup (yes BBCSO I am looking at you), they seem to move on and push out new products in an ever accelerating manner.
> 
> EDIT: this does not make me less excited about the new Albion per se



So true. Disappointing...


----------



## Bluemount Score

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> So true. Disappointing...


Listen guys, it's THE NEXT CHAPTER that's coming soon, not just yet another product release!!


----------



## sostenuto

Albion Afflatus with even 'higher' price .........


----------



## zimm83

Next chapter : return of kontakt ...


----------



## zimm83

I see kontakt on top of the hills ...


----------



## Bluemount Score

sostenuto said:


> Albion Afflatus with even 'higher' price .........


Ah, I think I got that reference


----------



## Bluemount Score

Alex Fraser said:


> Albion VI: Frostbite.


Why did I read "Albion VI: Fortnite" at first


----------



## Brasart

Oxytoxine said:


> I really start to understand now the feeling that many of you have shared here on the forum: Instead of taking the time and fixing at least some of the glaring issues in their very current lineup (yes BBCSO I am looking at you), they seem to move on and push out new products in an ever accelerating manner.
> 
> EDIT: this does not make me less excited about the new Albion per se



It's almost like different teams are working on different products that are planned on different timelines


----------



## zimm83

Bet.it is a new Albion Kontakt vst. Then i will buy it.
Mnnnnn. Albion 6....cool.


----------



## KallumS

I bet it's another Albion.


----------



## christianhenson




----------



## sIR dORT

Unreal views to say the least - thanks for that treat of a video.


----------



## VinRice

Oxytoxine said:


> I really start to understand now the feeling that many of you have shared here on the forum: Instead of taking the time and fixing at least some of the glaring issues in their very current lineup (yes BBCSO I am looking at you), they seem to move on and push out new products in an ever accelerating manner.
> 
> EDIT: this does not make me less excited about the new Albion per se



I've never understood this attitude. It's not one bloke in a shed. I imagine there are at least half a dozen new products in the development pipeline. You know, business. Grow or die.


----------



## MauroPantin

Fingers crossed for Albion UNO: Mariachi


----------



## Gerbil

Is there a live promo night where we pay a tenner to watch as the state trumpeters fanfare Paul as he abseils from the gods of the Royal Albert Hall dressed as a wing commander?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Gerbil said:


> Is there a live promo night where we pay a tenner to watch as the state trumpeters fanfare Paul as he abseils from the gods of the Royal Albert Hall dressed as a wing commander?


<throws wallet at screen>


----------



## Lode_Runner

Albion VI recorded at the peaks of loudness.


----------



## MaxOctane

They should at least wait till we hit 8000 posts on the BBCSO thread before releasing this.

_So close..._


----------



## lp59burst

Albion VI "_pining for the fjords_..."


----------



## kriskrause

Albion VI-Control


----------



## VinRice

lp59burst said:


> Albion VI "_pining for the fjords_..."



Class.


----------



## chocobitz825

The next chapter? But I wasn’t done with the last one...


----------



## N.Caffrey

from fb!


----------



## Mornats

N.Caffrey said:


> from fb!



Albion VI: The sound of brass without players.


----------



## GtrString

The mountain makes Kontakt with the sky?


----------



## gussunkri

N.Caffrey said:


> from fb!


I thought Christian hated sax


----------



## Wolf68

mmmm...yummy. but please in kontakt format!


----------



## jcrosby

Oxytoxine said:


> I really start to understand now the feeling that many of you have shared here on the forum: Instead of taking the time and fixing at least some of the glaring issues in their very current lineup (yes BBCSO I am looking at you), they seem to move on and push out new products in an ever accelerating manner.
> 
> EDIT: this does not make me less excited about the new Albion per se. I love Spitfire, have and use a lot of their their libraries and find many of them to be excellent and the best of their kind. But this point bugs me. I kind of understand the "shell out more products, sell more, get bigger, and growth is necessary in order to survive in a very competitive market" argument. But I believe it's a false dichotomy (that kind of reflects the modern times and associated short-term oriented thinking).
> 
> a) simply from a musicians and customers perspective, and
> 
> b) also for their own welfare as a company in the long term. Quality (and therefore justified higher price points) trumps quantity and a growing bunch of users of older products with partially unfixed issues that become more and more unsatisfied because of this. Sustainability and an enthusiastic fellowship of customers are, in my view, a more viable long term strategy, also and especially from an economical perspective. History and logic have clearly proven that in my opinion.



Too true... Ironically the more that purchase the more inevitable this is...

SF's become a game of musical chairs -_ How many products can be released in a quarter?_ As opposed to improving existing products. (Amusingly I'm not typically SF hater... But I am certainly getting tired of existing issues getting pushed to the bottom of the priority list... If their even is one.)


----------



## jamwerks

Hard to tell if that photo is from Air or MV? Would love to have some Saxes that do jazzy as well as classical. Still using VSL for classical Saxes. Hoping that they've done a Soprano as well.


----------



## N.Caffrey

when is NAMM? Christian said on twitter people could play with the new Albion there, during its promo period.


----------



## Geoff Grace

Winter NAMM is Thursday-Sunday next week.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Mike Fox

Wolf68 said:


> mmmm...yummy. but please in kontakt format!


Didn't even think about that. Unless it's significantly cheaper than the previous Albions, I definitely won't be buying it if there's no Kontakt option, which there probably won't be.


----------



## tomosane

jamwerks said:


> Hard to tell if that photo is from Air or MV?



Isn't the same hall and mic positions kind of a defining feature of the Albion range?

I personally only own Loegria, but it seems like none of them are flexible for different genres/styles, whereas you could easily use them all in conjunction beause of the hall. Of course, "The Next Chapter" in this situation could well mean that they're gonna make a new multi-volume Albion range in a different hall :S


----------



## givemenoughrope

For me, the best SF library is Sable/SCS and things like Evo’s, LCO, Orch Swarm’s strings, Mural Ens/Evo, Tundra and Uist’s strings, and their main solo strings are just extensions of that. It’s a shame they have to produce all these filler libraries when they have the manpower to do so much more sampling and scripting wise.


----------



## brenneisen

jamwerks said:


> Hard to tell if that photo is from Air or MV?



AIR Lyndhurst








Wolf68 said:


> mmmm...yummy. but please in kontakt format!



Native Instruments Kontakt


----------



## avocado89

givemenoughrope said:


> For me, the best SF library is Sable/SCS and things like Evo’s, LCO, Orch Swarm’s strings, Mural Ens/Evo, Tundra and Uist’s strings, and their main solo strings are just extensions of that. It’s a shame they have to produce all these filler libraries when they have the manpower to do so much more sampling and scripting wise.



I love Spitfire, big fan, but I think I am with you on this one. They seem to be going the "apple route" of releasing "new" products all the time with high price tags which seem to be slightly newer iterations of their older products, when they could be spending time really changing the game, like they did with Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions and their other textural libraries.

Hoping this is something new and earth shattering, not just some rehash of earlier libraries. I get that they are a business and they need to be profitable to remain in business, but I honestly haven't been excited about a Spitfire release since London Contemporary Orchestra Textures. I purchased Kepler when it first came out and to be honest I wish I hadn't.

Just my thoughts, not dev bashing by any means.


----------



## Oliver

avocado89 said:


> I love Spitfire, big fan, but I think I am with you on this one. They seem to be going the "apple route" of releasing "new" products all the time with high price tags which seem to be slightly newer iterations of their older products, when they could be spending time really changing the game, like they did with Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions and their other textural libraries.
> 
> Hoping this is something new and earth shattering, not just some rehash of earlier libraries. I get that they are a business and they need to be profitable to remain in business, but I honestly haven't been excited about a Spitfire release since London Contemporary Orchestra Textures. I purchased Kepler when it first came out and to be honest I wish I hadn't.
> 
> Just my thoughts, not dev bashing by any means.



Kepler strings is really awful i have to say, useless... and i am with you...Evos, LCOT or Swarm are great libraries, but nothing in for me since then...


----------



## ysnyvz

givemenoughrope said:


> For me, the best SF library is Sable/SCS and things like Evo’s, LCO, Orch Swarm’s strings, Mural Ens/Evo, Tundra and Uist’s strings, and their main solo strings are just extensions of that. It’s a shame they have to produce all these filler libraries when they have the manpower to do so much more sampling and scripting wise.


I agree. I like SCS and use it all the time. I also bought Studio Strings, thinking it would be nice to have drier and a bit bigger version of SCS. It was a mistake. I hated everything about it like sound, playability, programming etc. It's hard for me to believe these two libraries were even made by some people. Also these texture/pad sounds are not interesting for me which Spitfire keep releasing one after another. I mean I don't think I would ever hire 60 cellists to play with stick of their bows at the edge of silence.


----------



## ism

givemenoughrope said:


> For me, the best SF library is Sable/SCS and things like Evo’s, LCO, Orch Swarm’s strings, Mural Ens/Evo, Tundra and Uist’s strings, and their main solo strings are just extensions of that. It’s a shame they have to produce all these filler libraries when they have the manpower to do so much more sampling and scripting wise.



A couple of thoughts on this, and the nature of innovation in general.

One is that one person's "filller" is another's break and butter. I don't much care for loud brass libraries, or overly sound-design libraries, but that doesn't make them filler.

And the other is that creating genuine innovations necessarily means taking risks. I wouldn't have though that the Olafur evo would turn out to be so transformative. But its based on the experience of a number of other libraries, some of what have been great, but some of which have been ... well not bad, but inessential (evo 2, for instance is ... certainly not bad, and defiantly nice to have, but nowhere near as essential as OACE). Similarly with Tundra. A "really quiet orchestra" was probably not as completely obviously good an idea at the time as is clearly is in retrospect.

I hope they'll continue to take risks. And if not every library hits it out of the park, that could simply indicate that they're taking genuine risks.

Or that they're making libraries for a more diverse audience than myself. (I though that LCO was amazing, but LCOT was just a little bit to ambient for it to me more that nice-to-have).


But its all good.

(case in point - I'm still not sure who all these people are waiting for saxophones in their Albion, but this thead has been expanding my perspective on that also).


----------



## jbuhler

Oliver said:


> Kepler strings is really awful i have to say, useless... and i am with you...Evos, LCOT or Swarm are great libraries, but nothing in for me since then...


Whatever you think of Kepler you can't say it was SF trying to do the same old thing. It differs substantially from their orchestral libraries and it differs from their Evos. You might not like it, but that's a completely different proposition.


----------



## erica-grace

brenneisen said:


> Native Instruments Kontakt



Ok, who saw this picture, and after glancing at it really quickly, thought the top left said, *chocolate mixer*???


----------



## christianhenson

Really looking forward to sharing all the info with you towards the end of the week and if you're at NAMM come and try this on our lovely new big stand. I think the release of this will make perfect sense when thinking about the Albion saga as a whole. Anyone got an idea of what it will be yet? and name?

For me this is Spitfire going back to the very heart of what we love doing, and why we are where we are, so I hope you'll celebrate that with us this Thursday as VI-C is as much part of this story as we are! I've been working on the trailer music all week, and this library has instantly become a very personal favourite of mine and a long overdue replacement to one of my workhorses! But with a richer feature set.


----------



## N.Caffrey

christianhenson said:


> Really looking forward to sharing all the info with you towards the end of the week and if you're at NAMM come and try this on our lovely new big stand. I think the release of this will make perfect sense when thinking about the Albion saga as a whole. Anyone got an idea of what it will be yet? and name?
> 
> For me this is Spitfire going back to the very heart of what we love doing, and why we are where we are, so I hope you'll celebrate that with us this Thursday as VI-C is as much part of this story as we are! I've been working on the trailer music all week, and this library has instantly become a very personal favourite of mine and a long overdue replacement to one of my workhorses! But with a richer feature set.



Albion TWO?


----------



## jamwerks

Saxes seems to be just about the only instruments missing from the SF catalogue. Is it Blue Note, Albion VI?


----------



## tokatila

christianhenson said:


> ...I've been working on the *trailer* music all week, and this library has instantly become a very personal favourite of mine and a long overdue replacement to one of my workhorses! But with a richer feature set.





N.Caffrey said:


> Albion TWO?



Yes. We now have A12 recorders ostinato patches for those epic cartoons and the new sackbutt Sforzando so strong that it literally sucks your butt.


----------



## pulsedownloader

christianhenson said:


> Really looking forward to sharing all the info with you towards the end of the week and if you're at NAMM come and try this on our lovely new big stand. I think the release of this will make perfect sense when thinking about the Albion saga as a whole. Anyone got an idea of what it will be yet? and name?
> 
> For me this is Spitfire going back to the very heart of what we love doing, and why we are where we are, so I hope you'll celebrate that with us this Thursday as VI-C is as much part of this story as we are! I've been working on the trailer music all week, and this library has instantly become a very personal favourite of mine and a long overdue replacement to one of my workhorses! But with a richer feature set.



Albion textures?


----------



## davidson

Well Albion doesn't have a library of risers and stings yet, so maybe its Albion VI: Peak.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

christianhenson said:


> Anyone got an idea of what it will be yet? and name?



@christianhenson Given hints in your video, I suspect SA is phasing out the pesky and limiting number system in favour of more emotional descriptions like colours: indigo, crimson etc. Starting with a remake of Albion 2 as Albion Blue.


----------



## scoringdreams

+1 for an Albion Loegria re-package!


----------



## KallumS

Albion Two: Electric Boogaloo


----------



## gussunkri

Albion VI: Sax-Appeal


----------



## davidson

Another idea, I think they might be releasing 4 new albions, each based on a season, so this would be Albion: Winter (with the same mountain photographed every 3 months per new release). What articulations and ensembles that'd mean for each release, who's to know, but it'd be an interesting exercise.


----------



## Technostica

Never mind brass or reeds but how about some iron!

Any old Albion Iron (Steptoe and Son Composer Toolkit)







With added distressed Joanna from the Chas & Dave lock-in.






Free punnet of jellied eels for the first 100 orders.
Two punnets with further orders!


----------



## Primary Target

Albion One remake, confusingly named Albion One: Two


----------



## zimm83

+1 for albion TWO


----------



## ism

Sounds like it's albion two - just not sure how the fjords made any sense, lovely though they are.


----------



## ism

davidson said:


> Another idea, I think they might be releasing 4 new albions, each based on a season, so this would be Albion: Winter (with the same mountain photographed every 3 months per new release). What articulations and ensembles that'd mean for each release, who's to know, but it'd be an interesting exercise.



I can see some nice visuals on this.

But still not sure how Albion 2 would fit into this. It's imagery tended towards the pastoral. More of a spring or summer I would think.


----------



## christianhenson

I was in the sheep Heid today with some of the Spitfire crew and we all guiltily admitted that this was our fave so far... It's doing what we have been practising for so long now... But also v important part of the Albion story that needed addressing.

*** EDIT *** I'm as we speak writing the trailer music to the icy fjords and this stuff matches!!!

*** EDIT 2 *** yeah.... even the saxophones.


----------



## Zedcars

Albion II: Fjell


----------



## JPComposer

I'd be willing to pay a bit more for a version without saxophones.


----------



## christianhenson

Ha ha ha ha!!!


----------



## ism

christianhenson said:


> I was in the sheep Heid today with some of the Spitfire crew and we all guiltily admitted that this was our fave so far... It's doing what we have been practising for so long now... But also v important part of the Albion story that needed addressing.
> 
> *** EDIT *** I'm as we speak writing the trailer music to the icy fjords and this stuff matches!!!
> 
> *** EDIT 2 *** yeah.... even the saxophones.



Looking forward to being educated on how to express fjord-ness with saxophones.


----------



## BassClef




----------



## Zedcars

Sounds interesting, just not sure I can a-fjord it at the mo.


----------



## Loïc D

Albion Twø : recorded at the edge of thin ice (subscription only).


----------



## rottoy

I want a Roland Kirk Flautando patch if you insist on including saxophones.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Sounds interesting, just not sure I can a-fjord it at the mo.


Indeed. I've got a mountain to climb to get the funds ready. Perhaps if I reach peak musical output or get an avalanche of work in, I'll be good to go. 🤔


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Alex Fraser said:


> Indeed. I've got a mountain to climb to get the funds ready. Perhaps if I reach peak musical output or get an avalanche of work in, I'll be good to go. 🤔


Just go with the floe, man.


----------



## D Halgren

Confirmed...the long awaited Boots Randolph Composer Toolkit.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Indeed. I've got a mountain to climb to get the funds ready. Perhaps if I reach peak musical output or get an avalanche of work in, I'll be good to go. 🤔


You work so hard already. Don’t you Everest?


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Zedcars said:


> You work so hard already. Don’t you Everest?


This is really crampon my style. Okay, I'll get my coat. Radio silence now until Thursday...


----------



## Zedcars

To all the sax naysayers, I bet you can’t look me straight in the eye and tell me this unusual but perfectly fitting inclusion in Ravel’s orchestration of Mussorgsky’s Pictures at an Exhibition isn’t anything but exquisitely lovely:


----------



## dpasdernick

Albion Majestic. You only get to hear it one time because it blows out your ears after one note. But what a note....


----------



## Olfirf

dpasdernick said:


> Albion Majestic. You only get to hear it one time because it blows out your ears after one note. But what a note....



Albion, your Majesty ... paid for by taxes, working for the common int... Disney!


----------



## ka00

Zedcars said:


> Sounds interesting, just not sure I can a-fjord it at the mo.



Albionest with you, I can’t afford it either.


----------



## jononotbono

After watching videos so far and knowing you have gone up snowy terrain I was wondering if you could just include some bonus sample of snow footstep sounds?

I know it sounds weird but coming from the Isle of Wight, it rarely snows. When it does people (other then panic buying copious amounts of bread and milk even when there’s 3mm deep) are like crazy people going outside and walking in it. Because there’s no feeling quite like walking in it and feeling and listening to the glorious sound it makes (maybe it’s just me that does that 😂).

Now Im living in New York and I’m experiencing my first upstate snowy Winter, I’m, as usual, walking around in it loving the sound of it. I would record some myself but I’m surrounded by inconsiderate people driving cars and making noise. You’re up a mountain. And you’re Spitfire. Would be a lovely set of noises to draw from for sound Designy stuff. Anyway, I’ll keep working on my sample set of live Gun sounds I need to produce 😂


----------



## rottoy

Albion II: Loegria has ceased to be.


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

rottoy said:


> Albion II: Loegria has ceased to be.


So do we expect a patch called "The Bleedin' Choir Invisible"?


----------



## CT

jononotbono said:


> Now Im living in New York and I’m experiencing my first upstate snowy Winter



Enjoy! We have the best winters here. A few weeks too long, maybe.


----------



## jononotbono

miket said:


> Enjoy! We have the best winters here. A few weeks too long, maybe.



The people I work with are bitching about the weather constantly. I'm wearing shorts. It soon turns into a bitchfest about the English. Trust me. God didn't save the Queen. I did.


----------



## CT

jononotbono said:


> The people I work with are bitching about the weather constantly. I'm wearing shorts. It soon turns into a bitchfest about the English. Trust me. God didn't save the Queen. I did.



I admit, the charm wears off a bit once Christmas passes, but I can enjoy it through February and somewhat into March.


----------



## jononotbono

miket said:


> I admit, the charm wears off a bit once Christmas passes, but I can enjoy it through February and somewhat into March.



God damnit son! Your English accent is pretty fine! I feel there's a Royal quilt with your face on it being knitted as we speak! Shame it's not cold enough to wear it here. Upstate. We need to go to Alaska (but not too far Siberian North haha). Bears and Snow and boots and shit. Not Bikinis and Beers. I guess!

I'm sorry. Just having some honest fun... Here's the script...

Spitfire announce something new... Some people get upset. Normal people don't. Spitfire release something. Some people throw up (pretend to). Normal people buy it or think about it. Perhaps don't. THEN...

Spitfire announce something new...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Flautando confirmed then - as if there was any doubt!


----------



## davidson

Its just Albion two then I guess.


----------



## AndyP

jononotbono said:


> After watching videos so far and knowing you have gone up snowy terrain I was wondering if you could just include some bonus sample of snow footstep sounds?
> 
> I know it sounds weird but coming from the Isle of Wight, it rarely snows. When it does people (other then panic buying copious amounts of bread and milk even when there’s 3mm deep) are like crazy people going outside and walking in it. Because there’s no feeling quite like walking in it and feeling and listening to the glorious sound it makes (maybe it’s just me that does that 😂).
> 
> Now Im living in New York and I’m experiencing my first upstate snowy Winter, I’m, as usual, walking around in it loving the sound of it. I would record some myself but I’m surrounded by inconsiderate people driving cars and making noise. You’re up a mountain. And you’re Spitfire. Would be a lovely set of noises to draw from for sound Designy stuff. Anyway, I’ll keep working on my sample set of live Gun sounds I need to produce 😂



Finally a library for friends of the snow(waltz)!


----------



## Zedcars

davidson said:


> Its just Albion two then I guess.


"Just"?

I mean, whatever it's called it's 'just' a label. It's the content that counts right? Looks like they've recorded new stuff for it, probably entirely new.


----------



## davidson

Zedcars said:


> "Just"?
> 
> I mean, whatever it's called it's 'just' a label. It's the content that counts right? Looks like they've recorded new stuff for it, probably entirely new.



Haha sure, it wasn't meant as a slight to Albion 2. I meant 'just', rather than some crazy library of sounds I never knew I loved and needed. I think I'm pretty set for soft string articulations at this point, but never say never.


----------



## ism

rottoy said:


> Albion II: Loegria has ceased to be.



I normally don't like to reward gratuitous Monty Python references - especially when there are parrot references. But that really was funny.

And actually, "Norweign Blue" and "Pining for the Fjoirds" do kind of fit the marketing visuals that we've seen so far.


----------



## Alex Fraser

ism said:


> I normally don't like to reward gratuitous Monty Python references - especially when there are parrot references. But that really was funny.
> 
> And actually, "Norweign Blue" and "Pining for the Fjoirds" do kind of fit the marketing visuals that we're seen so far.


Ah, I was wondering what that was all about. For my sins as an Englishman....I don't like Monty Python very much. I'll let you decide my punishment.


----------



## MauroPantin

My bet is that it's Albion TWO with re-recorded and added woodwinds, hence the Sax photo


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

jononotbono said:


> The people I work with are bitching about the weather constantly. I'm wearing shorts. It soon turns into a bitchfest about the English. Trust me. God didn't save the Queen. I did.



If anyone wants to bitch about that weather, come to Calgary...it's -35 Celsius here today. With the windchill, around -50. It's enough to freeze the brass balls off any monkey.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Hmmm, I'm here in Palm Springs CA in my RV for the winter where it's mostly sunny every day and 65-75. Having a MOBILE studio has it's perks. Never been a fan of living in snow and ice...


----------



## Loïc D

Wolfie2112 said:


> It's enough to freeze the brass balls off any monkey.


Even with a mute on ?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

LowweeK said:


> Even with a mute on ?



Good point, that is entirely possible!


----------



## christianhenson

Just to confirm, just finished writing the trailer music (I'll never get used to scoring myself) and I did use the saxes, that has to be a career first (that is actually a lie I did use a soprano sax on the final two bars of music on the final Poirot).

Lovely library, its funny we finally did what people asked us to do on here about 5 years ago!

I'm going to be on a plane to LA when the YouTube premier happens so I look forward scrolling through your thoughts at immigration!


----------



## davidson

christianhenson said:


> Just to confirm, just finished writing the trailer music (I'll never get used to scoring myself) and I did use the saxes, that has to be a career first (that is actually a lie I did use a soprano sax on the final two bars of music on the final Poirot).
> 
> Lovely library, its funny we finally did what people asked us to do on here about 5 years ago!
> 
> I'm going to be on a plane to LA when the YouTube premier happens so I look forward scrolling through your thoughts at immigration!



Wait, didn't you used to produce music for porn? How the hell do you manage that without using the sax?!


----------



## pulsedownloader

Hmmm....spotted this book appropriately positioned in the latest @christianhenson video:

View attachment 26646


Walter Piston known for his neo-classical and jazz influenced chamber/orchestral music. So new Albion may be neo-classical / jazz influenced?


----------



## ptram

christianhenson said:


> I did use a soprano sax on the final two bars of music on the final Poirot).


Years spent just to play that thing passably in tune, and then composers only write a couple notes for it. Oh, well…

Paolo


----------



## Tilt & Flow

pulsedownloader said:


> Hmmm....spotted this book appropriately positioned in the latest @christianhenson video:
> 
> View attachment 26646
> 
> 
> Walter Piston known for his neo-classical and jazz influenced chamber/orchestral music. So new Albion may be neo-classical / jazz influenced?


I REALLY hope that it's jazz influenced.


----------



## christianhenson

Tilt & Flow said:


> I REALLY hope that it's jazz influenced.



I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.... where sax is concerned think Nyman, Glass, Penguin Cafe Orchestra.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

christianhenson said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.... where sax is concerned think Nyman, Glass, Penguin Cafe Orchestra.


So lots of movement...


----------



## christianhenson

Put it this way, I'm doing a song that uses Albion *** in eDNA with an arpeggiator and its instant Nyman.


----------



## PaulBrimstone

christianhenson said:


> Put it this way, I'm doing a song that uses Albion *** in eDNA with an arpeggiator and its instant Nyman.


So ... fu*ked up sax put through a squawk box at high speed. That's the way to do it — take that, Stan Getz!


----------



## CT

christianhenson said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.... where sax is concerned think Nyman, Glass, Penguin Cafe Orchestra.



I grow more intrigued about this by the day....


----------



## Zedcars

Seems like you guys already sussed it’s called Albion Two. Just to add to this it also looks like the trailer title from the still of Christian has Albion Two in it (maybe you all saw that too?! lol). Not sure about the subtitle though.

The thing about saxes is that they have so many timbral variations that it’s a shame they are not used more in an orchestral context. Should be interesting to hear how they are presented here.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Alex Fraser said:


> Ah, I was wondering what that was all about. For my sins as an Englishman....I don't like Monty Python very much. I'll let you decide my punishment.





​


----------



## Van

Like saxophone or not, it seems to me a good composer can make even a rusty gate sound good. (Yes, that was intentional.) It’s the artist, not the tools that creates art.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Ah, I was wondering what that was all about. For my sins as an Englishman....I don't like Monty Python very much. I'll let you decide my punishment.


I agree! Always a bit puzzled by the whole thing. Tried watching it loads of times and it just leaves me cold. However, I love all the comedians in their other stuff they’ve been in. Faulty Towers is the collective work of lots of geniuses. Just brilliant.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Zedcars said:


> I agree! Always a bit puzzled by the whole thing. Tried watching it loads of times and it just leaves me cold. However, I love all the comedians in their other stuff they’ve been in. Faulty Towers is the collective work of lots of geniuses. Just brilliant.







​Sorry - I'll stop now.....


----------



## KallumS

christianhenson said:


> Albion ***



Albion SAX


----------



## christianhenson

You got the middle vowel wrong


----------



## AndyP

christianhenson said:


> You got the middle vowel wrong


shUre?


----------



## KallumS

christianhenson said:


> You got the middle vowel wrong



SEX?

SUX? (featuring the VI Control choir)

SOX?

thnk that's all of the vowels, can't remember any more.


----------



## AndyP

KallumS said:


> SOX?


SOX would be a nightmare! NO!!!!


----------



## Michel Simons

KallumS said:


> SEX?
> 
> SUX? (featuring the VI Control choir)
> 
> SOX?
> 
> thnk that's all of the vowels, can't remember any more.



SIX??


----------



## HardyP

KallumS said:


> thnk that's all of the vowels, can't remember any more.


... then return to grammar school, mate... you missed, *sIx* !
(in german school system the worst grade you can 'get')


----------



## Studio E

christianhenson said:


> You got the middle vowel wrong



"Syx", obviously.


----------



## Bluemount Score

christianhenson said:


> You got the middle vowel wrong


SÄX

(german intensifies)


----------



## tokatila

I recommend lifting themes and running around the circle of fifths, if you suffer from low SAX drive.


----------



## Spitfire Team

​


----------



## Alfeus Aditya

I am in.. Hopefully New Albion with Original Series price


----------



## filipjonathan

NEO. I literally got chills as he said it.


----------



## Bluemount Score

filipjonathan said:


> NEO. I literally got chills as he said it.


You were fast


----------



## Sarah Mancuso




----------



## PaulBrimstone

Well, at least I was right about them dropping the numbers.


----------



## Ruffian Price

Spitfire Audio — Albion NEO






www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## Bluemount Score

Spitfire Audio — Albion Neo


Albion NEO is a chamber-sized orchestral sample library with an intimate string section, adding incredible definition and expression to all your scores.



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## Bluemount Score

Ruffian Price said:


> Spitfire Audio — Albion NEO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com


I hate being late.


----------



## Ruffian Price

The walkthroughs are also up on the page, over an hour of material. Gotta dig in.


----------



## Zedcars




----------



## Zedcars

(Sorry! Last one...  )


----------



## cqd

So is it TWO without an upgrade price?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Coming up next: Albion - EON


----------



## Bluemount Score

cqd said:


> So is it TWO without an upgrade price?


Not really, I consider this as an independent release.


----------



## N.Caffrey

Watching the walkthrough, Paul is very excited!


----------



## mybadmemory

Bluemount Score said:


> Coming up next: Albion - EON



And after that Albion ENO, featuring Brian Eno. 😂


----------



## cqd

Bluemount Score said:


> Not really, I consider this as an independent release.



I dunno.. looks like TWO..


----------



## jbuhler

With all the Albions I own, my price is really good. Also complete the bundle.


----------



## ptram

So, now we have ONE and NEO. The next release will be EON.

Paolo


----------



## Bluemount Score

cqd said:


> I dunno.. looks like TWO..


The approach might be similar in some ways, but Spitfire definitely wants to sell this as something that has nothing to do with Loegria. "TWO" is mentioned nowhere.


----------



## EvilDragon

If it's not a direct replacement for Loegria (and it seems like it isn't), to me it's a daft decision to remove Loegria from product range.


----------



## Geomir

Wolfie2112 said:


> If anyone wants to bitch about that weather, come to Calgary...it's -35 Celsius here today. With the windchill, around -50. It's enough to freeze the brass balls off any monkey.


OMG! Are you serious? Here in Athens (Greece) the previous week has been between 4 and 8 Celsius and we were complaining it was cold!

With -35 Celsius the only music I could be inspired to compose would be extreme black metal, the old traditional high-pitched way!


----------



## jbuhler

EvilDragon said:


> If it's not a direct replacement for Loegria (and it seems like it isn't), to me it's a daft decision to remove Loegria from product range.


Unless they are planning to repackage it as additional Originals. The Loegria strings, in particular, include some amazing patches.


----------



## cqd

Bluemount Score said:


> The approach might be similar in some ways, but Spitfire definitely wants to sell this as something that has nothing to do with Loegria. "TWO" is mentioned nowhere.



Well yeah, my point being that owners of loegria should have it for 99, like 1 to ONE..
By omitting it they can triple the price..same section size..same euphonium flugelhorn..


----------



## givemenoughrope

That promo video
wow
WOW
At this point I really have to wonder...why even sell samples/software? Just be a marketing company.


----------



## Allen Constantine

The next chapter would definitely be, Albion Bargain - The most cohesive sound that marketing can offer!


----------



## Brasart

*IS ALBION NEO A REPLACEMENT FOR ALBION LOEGRIA?*
No. Albion NEO is a brand new product that is 100% separate from Albion Loegria. Albion Loegria was retired as it is no longer in line with the standard of our other products. There is no crossgrade available from Albion Loegria.


*DOES THIS PRODUCT CONTAIN CONTENT FROM OTHER EXISTING PRODUCTS?*
No.

(From Albion NEO FAQ)


----------



## jbuhler

cqd said:


> Well yeah, my point being that owners of loegria should have it for 99, like 1 to ONE..
> By omitting it they can triple the price..same section size..same euphonium flugelhorn..


Neo is far less a remake of Loegria than Albion One was a remake of Albion I.


----------



## ism

Brilliant stuff all around.


----------



## Brasart

And also I'm very likely to give in, going through walkthroughs right now but it sounds stellar, very surprised and pleased by how good the eDNA stuff sounds


----------



## Zedcars

So at this point the Albion naming scheme is a bit confusing no? I’m sure they’re aware of this fact. Seems like it makes sense at this point to dispense with the Roman Numerals and just use Albion Iceni, Albion Uist and Albion Tundra. I guess it’s not so easy to rename a sample library though once it’s out.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Looks great. Pity the piano didn’t make an appearance but divisi 😍


----------



## Mike Fox

Hm...i think Tundra, and all the Evos i have may already have this slow, emotional, and evolving department covered.

The smaller sections/divisi are nice sounding though!


----------



## Manaberry

So what's new basically?


----------



## Simon Ravn

I love how they are using a quote by Christian Henson to endorse the product.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

As usual, the videos on the SF site won't play in Safari 12.0.1 or iPhone 12.1.2


----------



## pawelmorytko

Does this have evos in this? I was thinking of picking up either the London Contemporary Orchestra Textures or the Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions as my first evo library, but this could possibly be the better choice if the evos are just as good


----------



## BezO

I could be mistaken as I don't own any Albions, but I like the inclusion of legato in the main patches this time. SF seems very in favor of the artic per track approach normally.

And Christian doesn't like saxophones. I guess I'll never see a complete brasswind product from them.

As usually with these, not sure I have a use. Sounds amazing though, and I'm only into the 1st vid.

Edit: Maybe I should just ask, how do folks use these? Do these blended instruments play along side your individual instruments? Instead of? Maybe I should think of these like the Heavyocity stuff I have.


----------



## Mike Fox

pawelmorytko said:


> Does this have evos in this? I was thinking of picking up either the London Contemporary Orchestra Textures or the Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions as my first evo library, but this could possibly be the better choice if the evos are just as good


Doesn't look like it. 

I highly recommend Tundra, as well OACE though!


----------



## ridgero

I really like how nice and easy Divisi A&B are playable


----------



## MaxOctane

@christianhenson's "Get out of jail free" loop at 6:55 of the walkthrough. Awesome beat from a single key!

I confess to great enjoying the single-key-instabeat patches in Omnisphere and Avenger VPS.


----------



## Brasart

Wolfie2112 said:


> As usual, the videos on the SF site won't play in Safari 12.0.1 or iPhone 12.1.2



I can read them with Safari 12.1.2 here


----------



## KallumS

Today: "this is the best thing ever!"

Next week: "this is the worst thing ever!"

I can see it now... Enjoy it while it lasts 😜


----------



## Brasart

pawelmorytko said:


> Does this have evos in this? I was thinking of picking up either the London Contemporary Orchestra Textures or the Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions as my first evo library, but this could possibly be the better choice if the evos are just as good



Not EVOS per se, but listen to the the "alternate" articulations in the orchestra librairies, 5-6 of them sounds just like evolutions you'd find in OACE, and with the combination of Strings A & B you can go a long way I think


----------



## davidson

Is there a way of having A+B (strings) play in one kontakt instrument, or do you need to create a multi? I'm a komplete kontrol user, and we can't use multis


----------



## Oliver

Well not my cup of tea...
i have Albion 2 and 5, that sounds similar, and all EVOs.

Also i am "very excited" to hear, that HZ Strings 6000 players arent standard anymore, and now everybody composes with chamber orchestra. 
well....


----------



## idematoa

Albion NEO pre-ordered


----------



## ysnyvz

Manaberry said:


> So what's new basically?


Spitfire recorded flautando for the first time ever. It's beyond new, it's an innovation.


----------



## BezO

davidson said:


> Is there a way of having A+B (strings) play in one kontakt instrument, or do you need to create a multi? I'm a komplete kontrol user, and we can't use multis


Same here. "create a multi" is never a solution for me.


----------



## Zedcars

Iswhatitis said:


> No clue where Christian filmed that gorgeous trailer...


Northern Norway I think - somewhere in or near Mefjorvær. There’s a video all about it on Christian’s YT channel:


----------



## Michael Antrum

So they called it NEO.....

Well then, the only question that needs answering is:






Well, which is it....?


----------



## Henu

Brasart said:


> Albion Loegria was retired as it is no longer in line with the standard of our other products.



"Sorry if you bought this, we don't think it's good either". 

Not that I'm bitter or anything but I really could had used an upgrade for Loegria instead of an umpteenth HYBRID EPIC CINEMATIC library which I won't be buying nor am interested in. And no, I'm not anti-Spitfire by any chance, in fact I own close to twenty of their libraries. Which is exactly why I'd love to see Loegria revisited, goddamnit! #makeloegriagreatagain


----------



## wst3

Having a few Albion volumes, along with some Symphobia and Metropolis Ark volumes I really wasn't paying a lot of attention to this. I still prefer working with "standard" multi-sampled libraries, although I have used all of the above with success at one time or another.

My first reaction to the various videos, and especially the "Without Words" demo at the top of the page, is "wow!" This does not sound like the other Albions, it sounds like one can get a lot more detailed.

Or they are getting better at creating demos??

I will now be paying attention.


----------



## davidson

BezO said:


> Same here. "create a multi" is never a solution for me.



There's the option of going to edit view in kontakt and creating a multi, but it'd be great if you can have 2 parts in a single instance - that's what I assumed when I heard divisi.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Brasart said:


> I can read them with Safari 12.1.2 here



In 12.0.1 the videos won't play


----------



## Michael Antrum

Wolfie2112 said:


> In 12.0.1 the videos won't play



All good in 12.1.1


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

KallumS said:


> Today: "this is the best thing ever!"
> 
> Next week: "this is the worst thing ever!"
> 
> I can see it now... Enjoy it while it lasts 😜



LOL! My thoughts exactly. I pre-orderd BBCSO because I got a great discount (and fortunately I love it), but I'll wait until after NEO's release this time.


----------



## CT

wst3 said:


> I still prefer working with "standard" multi-sampled libraries



So do I, by a wide margin, but Tundra was special enough to pull me in regardless, and my first impressions are that this might be as well.


----------



## ptram

Geomir said:


> With -35 Celsius the only music I could be inspired to compose would be extreme black metal, the old traditional high-pitched way!


If you like to tour a bit north, you can try to play at -71°C at Ojmjakon:






Paolo


----------



## BezO

davidson said:


> There's the option of going to edit view in kontakt and creating a multi, but it'd be great if you can have 2 parts in a single instance - that's what I assumed when I heard divisi.


Hmm? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I know I can open Kontakt in KK and create multis, but you lose some controls, defeating the purpose of the KK. But it sounds like you're talking about something else. Can you expound? I feel like I've been missing something.


----------



## Dr.Quest

Brilliant! Blue pill, obviously!


----------



## Technostica

Just started on the Segla Textures video and that impressed me.
It seems to be taking them more into heavyocity territory.


----------



## BezO

wst3 said:


> Having a few Albion volumes, along with some Symphobia and Metropolis Ark volumes I really wasn't paying a lot of attention to this. I still prefer working with "standard" multi-sampled libraries, although I have used all of the above with success at one time or another.
> 
> My first reaction to the various videos, and especially the "Without Words" demo at the top of the page, is "wow!" This does not sound like the other Albions, it sounds like one can get a lot more detailed.
> 
> Or they are getting better at creating demos??
> 
> I will now be paying attention.


Yeah, other than some of Heavyocity's stuff, I have a hard time seeing my need for combo instruments like this. But this is sounding pretty cool. And as a keyswitcher, I like that they included legato in the main patches.

Not making proper orchestral music, experimenting more with the soundscapes of, this could be very useful to me.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Manaberry said:


> So what's new basically?


The chapter


----------



## ManicMiner

Tundra has been on my wishlist a while. Would be nice if Spitfire could outline where Neo differs in a significant way to Tundra. "Emotional" "Edge of Silence", these utterings in the promo video brought Tundra and OA straight to my mind.


----------



## josephspirits

That trailer is so good I couldn't help but start laughing at how good some of the shots were and the slo-mo. Loved it and the library sounds great. 

I find myself in a situation though where although I immediately start thinking about ways that this would fit in with the Olafur libraries and Tundra, it's for that same reason I don't feel like I immediately _need _it. Will definitely want to get it at some point though, it feels like just the kind of sounds I'm always trying to come up with in my own, the woodwinds as harmonium for example. The divisi stuff is really lovely and some of those articulations sound great. A bit disappointed to not see a custom percussion aspect to the Albion, but I guess the idea is that there is stuff in the brunnel loops to make up for it, and extra organic synths/ textures.


----------



## sbarrettmusic

Based on the hype at the end of the trailer, I was expecting something much more revolutionary. Upon watching the walkthrough, I see nothing new or revolutionary. Just more sounds that have been done before. I'll call this Albion NO.


----------



## Scamper

ManicMiner said:


> Tundra has been on my wishlist a while. Would be nice if Spitfire could outline where Neo differs in a significant way to Tundra. "Emotional" "Edge of Silence", these utterings in the promo video brought Tundra and OA straight to my mind.



Neo seems like a hybrid between a regular library with standard articulations like Albion ONE or previously Loegria and a texture library with mostly unusual playing techniques such as Albion Tundra.

Since there are both in Neo, it should be more versatile than Tundra. 
Concerning the textures, the big difference between the two is also in the size of the orchestra. Huge for Tundra (100 players) and small for Neo (36 players), but that's probably a matter of taste. Of course, Tundra also has a wider array of articulations and textures.

So, I think it's all about what sounds you still need and what size you prefer.
Neo sounds beautiful and all, but for me, Tundra is really something special, when it comes to textures at low dynamics and my favorite thing in this regard.


----------



## ism

Wow do I love this. 

And it seems just superbly designed to fill a space on the pallet intesecting OACE, Tundra & SCS.

Initial thoughts:

- I'll admit I was initially sceptical of the Strings A/B orchestrations instead of low/high. But this seems to build on just how well the feathered orchestration from OACE works. Which, among other things, it really makes it a perfect companion to OACE.

- Conceived as an "OACE expansion" - besides more articulations (and I tend to use OACE as separate articulations rather than an evo per se) it adds legato, more dynamic expression , and generally just finer brush strokes with which to add detail to OACE works. I'd be very excited to fire this up beside OACE.

- Conceived as a "Tundra expansion' - it also expands the palette, but starting from a different place. Not sure quite how to express it, but the point of intersection isn't so much the textures and the orchestration (which strikes me as is the main point departure / intersections of palette of AN and OACE), but from the dynamics - the AN starts at the "edge of silence", only smaller. And again, it adds the ability for fine brush strokes, which the key thing that the Tundra palette lacks. 


- Conceived as an "SCS expansion" - well not having SCS, I'm much less sure about this. But increasingly I'm feeling a gaping SCS-shaped hole in my own palette, and this library adds definition to those edges. So in the same way OACE can be seen as adding textural articulations (and the dynamics arcs of the waves) to the SCS palette, AN feels like it would also work as an expansion of SCS along a slightly different dimension. Starting by adding more soft ("edge of silence") articulation. More flautando (I mean seriously, who would have though Spitfire could outdo them selves with flautando ... but behold . And wow that sul tasto sound amazing, and somehow wholly new also. ). But beyond flautando and pp- mp dynamics ... there's clearly a whole new dimension of the palette that sound like it might be understood as seamlessly on the boundary of SCS.

- Further to this, I'd really like to hear more about what the legatos can do, how they mix with and extend SCS, and what's the distinction between the A/B legatos. And also what does this mean for not just layering A and B for a bigger sound, but also for write lines that interact contrapuntally. This relates again to my quest for a layer with finer brush strokes 

- expanding this question a bit - most of the demos really showcase the ambient /underscore/hybrid side of this library. By my excitement is more for the (relative) traditional orchestral side, and specifically in combination with other library.

- I have a *ton* of questions / excitement to get stuck into experimenting around how AN will blend - not just with OACE and Tundra, but Orchestral Swarm, Time Macro, BDT - etc. I have struggled to get smaller string sections to blend with Tundra, in a way there sits satisfyingly with the presence or sonority or the softness or whatever it is about Tundra that makes Tundra sound so great. That is to say I've found that Light and sound chamber strings and Spitfire studio strings and LCO and those 8dio strings just don't necessarily have right sound to blend with Tundra, adding a that "fine brush" detail without loosing the Tundra-ness of Tundra (though I've had some good success in mixing OACE and Tundra). AN seem made for this space (with the caveat that this is perhaps another indication that I really just need to bite the bullet and pick up SCS). 


- I suppose in working with Tundra, I come to typically use SSW as my find brush foreground layer. So I'm uncertain about how I would use the woodwinds or brass in the "Harmonium" like orchestration. 

- That said, I feel I have been educated today on the sonic possibilities of the saxophone.

- Given that I would never use the hybrid stuff, and haven't really got my head around the Winds and Brass, it has a sense of boutique-priceing. If it was just the strings at an OACE-like price point, wild horses would not keep my credit care away from the pre-order button. As it is, it's effectively 2x the cost of OACE, and not in my budget. So ... may need to think about hoping for, maybe an Apex sale or an end of year 2020 bundle or some such.

- This feels like an entirely worth successor to Tundra, and an entirely worthy companion to OACE. And that really says something.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

I was intrigued by the stream's implication that this would be a library akin to Tundra but with smaller ensembles, but ultimately this seems like one I don't need. There are a handful of sounds in the orchestra walkthrough that made me say "ah, that'd be neat to have", but enough of this is already-covered territory for me that it'd be superfluous. SCS, Chamber Evos, and other libraries have me pretty well covered.

I had a similar reaction to Loegria during its retirement sale: "this is nice enough, but I already have SCS".


----------



## ism

ManicMiner said:


> Tundra has been on my wishlist a while. Would be nice if Spitfire could outline where Neo differs in a significant way to Tundra. "Emotional" "Edge of Silence", these utterings in the promo video brought Tundra and OA straight to my mind.



I could go on about this at length, if you'd like more detail that is in my above post.


----------



## Mike Fox

Sarah Mancuso said:


> but enough of this is already-covered territory for me that it'd be superfluous.



This. 100%

Superfluous has become the common theme of my library collection. Neo would only add fuel to that fire.


----------



## MartinH.

Wow, genuinely impressed by the high-quality trailer! They really stepped up their marketing game once again. This was so well made and cinematic, it kind of distracted me from the actual library. Doesn't matter in my case because it's a tool that isn't meant for me anyway, but I don't know if this is the right direction to keep moving into with the marketing.


----------



## Brasart

ism said:


> Wow do I love this.
> 
> And it seems just superbly designed to fill a space on the pallet intesecting OACE, Tundra & SCS.
> 
> Initial thoughts:
> 
> - I'll admit I was initially sceptical of the Strings A/B orchestrations instead of low/high. But this seems to build on just how well the feathered orchestration from OACE works. Which, among other things, it really makes it a perfect companion to OACE.
> 
> - Conceived as an "OACE expansion" - besides more articulations (and I tend to use OACE as separate articulations rather than an evo per se) it adds legato, more dynamic expression , and generally just finer brush strokes with which to add detail to OACE works. I'd be very excited to fire this up beside OACE.
> 
> - Conceived as a "Tundra expansion' - it also expands the palette, but starting from a different place. Not sure quite how to express it, but the point of intersection isn't so much the textures and the orchestration (which strikes me as is the main point departure / intersections of palette of AN and OACE), but from the dynamics - the AN starts at the "edge of silence", only smaller. And again, it adds the ability for fine brush strokes, which the key thing that the Tundra palette lacks.
> 
> 
> - Conceived as an "SCS expansion" - well not having SCS, I'm much less sure about this. But increasingly I'm feeling a gaping SCS-shaped hole in my own palette, and this library adds definition to those edges. So in the same way OACE can be seen as adding textural articulations (and the dynamics arcs of the waves) to the SCS palette, AN feels like it would also work as an expansion of SCS along a slightly different dimension. Starting by adding more soft ("edge of silence") articulation. More flautando (I mean seriously, who would have though Spitfire could outdo them selves with flautando ... but behold . And wow that sul tasto sound amazing, and somehow wholly new also. ). But beyond flautando and pp- mp dynamics ... there's clearly a whole new dimension of the palette that sound like it might be understood as seamlessly on the boundary of SCS.
> 
> - Further to this, I'd really like to hear more about what the legatos can do, how they mix with and extend SCS, and what's the distinction between the A/B legatos. And also what does this mean for not just layering A and B for a bigger sound, but also for write lines that interact contrapuntally. This relates again to my quest for a layer with finer brush strokes
> 
> - expanding this question a bit - most of the demos really showcase the ambient /underscore/hybrid side of this library. By my excitement is more for the (relative) traditional orchestral side, and specifically in combination with other library.
> 
> - I have a *ton* of questions / excitement to get stuck into experimenting around how AN will blend - not just with OACE and Tundra, but Orchestral Swarm, Time Macro, BDT - etc. I have struggled to get smaller string sections to blend with Tundra, in a way there sits satisfyingly with the presence or sonority or the softness or whatever it is about Tundra that makes Tundra sound so great. That is to say I've found that Light and sound chamber strings and Spitfire studio strings and LCO and those 8dio strings just don't necessarily have right sound to blend with Tundra, adding a that "fine brush" detail without loosing the Tundra-ness of Tundra (though I've had some good success in mixing OACE and Tundra). AN seem made for this space (with the caveat that this is perhaps another indication that I really just need to bite the bullet and pick up SCS).
> 
> 
> - I suppose in working with Tundra, I come to typically use SSW as my find brush foreground layer. So I'm uncertain about how I would use the woodwinds or brass in the "Harmonium" like orchestration.
> 
> - That said, I feel I have been educated today on the sonic possibilities of the saxophone.
> 
> - Given that I would never use the hybrid stuff, and haven't really got my head around the Winds and Brass, it has a sense of boutique-priceing. If it was just the strings at an OACE-like price point, wild horses would not keep my credit care away from the pre-order button. As it is, it's effectively 2x the cost of OACE, and not in my budget. So ... may need to think about hoping for, maybe an Apex sale or an end of year 2020 bundle or some such.
> 
> - This feels like an entirely worth successor to Tundra, and an entirely worthy companion to OACE. And that really says something.



Great post, sums up my thoughts as well.
I think it'll work so well alongside my OACE, Aperture Strings (which itself works so well with OACE) & various other libraries; I work mostly with expanded orchestral textures coupled with hybrid composition, so I think these kind of "toolkits" are very smart & useful for me.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> This. 100%
> 
> Superfluous has become the common theme of my library collection. Neo would only add fuel to that fire.


I have a lot of libraries that cover similar ground, and yet I find none of them superfluous.


----------



## Zedcars

Didn’t realise you got some tasty grub with Albion Neo. Yum 

https://www.visitlondon.com/things-to-do/place/31726785-albion-neo-bankside


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> This. 100%
> 
> Superfluous has become the common theme of my library collection. Neo would only add fuel to that fire.



Do you consider yourself kind of an "all you sul tastos sound the same to me" sort of person?


----------



## davidson

BezO said:


> Hmm? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I know I can open Kontakt in KK and create multis, but you lose some controls, defeating the purpose of the KK. But it sounds like you're talking about something else. Can you expound? I feel like I've been missing something.



No, you're right, you do lose the convenience of KK, I was just saying it was technically possible


----------



## JPComposer

I'm always hoping for new instruments recorded in Lyndhurst Hall. But nothing new here for me unfortunately. If the Flugelhorns and Euphoniums were there as separate ensembles, I'd have been on this quicker than a pig in a passage. I can't justify the price just for the (very nice sounding) strings, and all the textures and loops just seem like filler to me, something I should be making myself as part of the process of getting better at sound design.

As it's designed to quickly write background music for TV and film though, it would seem ideal for that for sure.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> I have a lot of libraries that cover similar ground, and yet I find none of them superfluous.


I know what you mean, but there's a reason I won't buy all the EVOs, and Neo reminds me waaaay too much of Tundra, which I already have. 

It's getting to the point where it feels like I'm painting something but with different shades of the same color. I guess if you really like that color, then by all means...


----------



## 2chris

Their marketing team is head and shoulders above any other sample library company. Between doing things right, creatively, and getting big names involved - it's no wonder they keep growing.

I'm just struggling to see how this deserves the "Neo" name. It's really more of the same. That isn't an insult, because they make great products. I'm just at a loss for what the killer thing is here besides further displaying the company is well run. It's put out a great marketing campaign and high quality product videos.

If you're going to call Albion the bento box of scoring tools, I think it's correctly named. This bento box has sushi, and that one is slightly different sushi. The next one is... vegetarian sushi. I want a freaking greasy hamburger, or Philly Cheese-steak at some point. We get it... Air Studios. Lovely strings, and characterized winds (Though adding a sax this time! Some wasabi on that sushi!), and well mannered brass.


----------



## easyrider

I thought they were going to be using their own player rather than Kontakt ?


----------



## 2chris

Zedcars said:


> Didn’t realise you got some tasty grub with Albion Neo. Yum
> 
> https://www.visitlondon.com/things-to-do/place/31726785-albion-neo-bankside


Yes, and they picked the wrong domain. It should be... VSTiLondon.com


----------



## Oliver

i almost turned the overview off when Christian showed me 256th version of flautando. i think i have enough.
not excited...


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> I know what you mean, but there's a reason I won't buy all the EVOs, and Neo reminds me waaaay too much of Tundra, which I already have.
> 
> It's getting to the point where it feels like I'm painting something but with different shades of the same color. I guess if you really like that color, then by all means...




I'd argue that the colour metaphor breaks down a bit here, at least in certain musical dimensions.


Because on the surface layer, then yes. In fact the main selling point is that it offers "colours" that can seamlessly blend Tundra, OACE, SCS etc. (Although see my above example on how the ensemble size alone fundamentally changes the "colour" of the col leg tratos")

But here's where the colour metaphor really starts to break - it's the *brush strokes" that I'd argue are completely different in AN - wholly new and wholly exciting.

Tundra is fabulous for large, grandiloquent, beautiful, but ultimately kind of impressionistic brush strokes.

OACE offers some slightly finer details (in addition to its fabulous new colours and textures) but you have virtually no control over dynamics, no legato etc.


But Albion NEO - finally! - offers these fine brush strokes in the same "colour" - in a number of ways.


I could extent the painting metaphor at considerable length in working towards a way to describe what's exciting about this library.

But in adding this capacity for fine brush strokes, it's not just a linear extensions of the palette. 

When combined with Tundra, OACE etc, it promises to be more than the sum of its parts. 

It's entirely the case that there are now orchestral styles of music that can be written using these libraries in combination that I could *feel*, but not quite reach before. 


Man, I really do need this library. Such a pity I went so crazy on BF 2010


----------



## ism

Oliver said:


> i almost turned the overview off when Christian showed me 256th version of flautando. i think i have enough.
> not excited...



Totally fair. I've started to feel the same way about, for instance, Daniel James reviews of yet an other library full of fff brass. I still enjoy trying to stretch my artistic appreciation to understand the connoisseurship and artistic discernment that goes into it.

But I really feel I lost the ability to distinguish between one fff trombone patch and another fff trombone patch five or six libraries ago.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> I know what you mean, but there's a reason I won't buy all the EVOs, and Neo reminds me waaaay too much of Tundra, which I already have.
> 
> It's getting to the point where it feels like I'm painting something but with different shades of the same color. I guess if you really like that color, then by all means...


No, I don't have all of the Evos either, and don't at this point feel like I need them. But for me this library, especially the strings and winds, fits into a musical place that I think I will use a lot. @ism's various posts above outline some of that. At the same time, you may indeed not need so many gradations of this color for the kind of music you write...


----------



## ManicMiner

2chris said:


> I'm just struggling to see how this deserves the "Neo" name. It's really more of the same.


I was struggling with all this talk of a "revolution" in the trailer and "new chapter" for the same reason. Revolution invokes thoughts of something dramatic and new. And this, as you say, seems to be more of the same.


----------



## South Thames

I can almost imagine the marketing sessions to name this and conceptualise the marketing, with the employee of the month going to he or she who posits the most hyperbolic concept (I can imagine Christian having quite a few of those awards).

So much of Spitfire's range is now oriented towards this sort of Scandi chic stuff that to try to badge it as as 'neo' or a revolution just provokes eye rolls. It would make much more sense to explain how this picks up where Tundra left off, explores particular areas in more detail etc.

To me, the marketing could be just as stylish and effective without being so over the top. It would piss fewer people off and I don't actually think it would effect sales very much (anybody who follows Spitfire know the initial marketing claims are rarely justified).

As for the product itself, looks probably reasonably useful if you don't have much flat-pack Scandi stuff in your library. Having quite a bit of it, I'll probably hold off for now.


----------



## BezO

davidson said:


> No, you're right, you do lose the convenience of KK, I was just saying it was technically possible


OK, just making sure I was missing something.

It would be nice if NI added the ability to do multis in KK and select each instance to control.


----------



## ism

But isn't it ok if some people just love fff trombones and other people just love other stuff?


----------



## jbuhler

davidson said:


> No, you're right, you do lose the convenience of KK, I was just saying it was technically possible


If the patches you are opening in the multi conform (such as the A and B strings of Neo seem to do), then you can set both patches to midi channel 1 and remap the CCs under host automation, so the knobs work together for the loaded patches.


----------



## Mike Fox

ism said:


> I'd argue that the colour metaphor breaks down a bit here, at least in certain musical dimensions.
> 
> 
> Because on the surface layer, then yes. In fact the main selling point is that it offers "colours" that can seamlessly blend Tundra, OACE, SCS etc. (Although see my above example on how the ensemble size alone fundamentally changes the "colour" of the col leg tratos")
> 
> But here's where the colour metaphor really starts to break - it's the *brush strokes" that I'd argue are completely different in AN - wholly new and wholly exciting.
> 
> Tundra is fabulous for large, grandiloquent, beautiful, but ultimately kind of impressionistic brush strokes.
> 
> OACE offers some slightly finer details, but you have virtually no control over dynamics, no legato etc.
> 
> 
> But Albion NEO - finally! - offers these fine brush strokes in the same "colour" - in a number of ways.
> 
> 
> I could extent the painting metaphor at considerable length in working towards a way to describe what's exciting about this library.
> 
> But in adding this capacity for fine brush strokes, it's not just a linear extensions of the palette, when combined with Tundra, OACE etc, it promises to be more than the sum of its parts. It's entirely the case that there are now orchestral styles of music that can be written using these libraries in combination that I could *feel*, but not quite reach before.
> 
> 
> Man, I really do need this library. Such a pity I went so crazy on BF 2010




Brushstrokes, shades, whatever, it's all from the same vein is my main point. All of those different brushstrokes are ultimately going to serve the exact same purpose: slow, dreamy, evolving, pad-like textures that can strongly enhance your compositions.

Spitfire completely nails that style better than anyone else, and if that's your thing, then that's totally cool. I'm not knocking that at all, because I actually love getting lost for hours with Tundra and the EVOs. They're amazing libraries.

And even though Neo is also probably just as amazing, and is technically different than Tundra (and all the EVOs), it's not different enough to justify the purchase, and the idea that Neo bridges all of these other libraries together just doesn't do anything for me.


----------



## ysnyvz

Oliver said:


> i almost turned the overview off when Christian showed me 256th version of flautando. i think i have enough.
> not excited...


You might have enough but Christian doesn't. He will keep recording flautando until the end of time. But he will keep trying to sell them to you, while he gets his own "train set". He will even go to North Pole for next library.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> you may indeed not need so many gradations of this color for the kind of music you write...



And this is what it boils down to, i think.

Neo is going to appeal to composers who really dig that style of writing, whereas I can get by just fine with Tundra, and a few EVO libraries.


----------



## CT

South Thames said:


> So much of Spitfire's range is now oriented towards this sort of Scandi chic stuff that to try to badge it as a new chapter or a revolution just provokes eye rolls. It would make much more sense to explain how this picks up where Tundra left off, explores particular areas in more detail etc.



While I do in general find some shreds of Spitfire's marketing to be a little too "weighty," and/or lacking a touch of humor (most developers have this problem), I didn't feel any of this was worthy of eye rolling. I mean, he DOES mention how it's an offshoot of their own "edge of silence" thing, and I don't think the revolution talk is about the library itself, it's about the so called NEO-classical composition niche that's exploded a bit in recent years, and how this library fits into it.

But my cynicism dial is definitely not turned up to VI-Control levels, so who knows.


----------



## Scamper

I just want to say, that I really love this announcement trailer for Albion NEO.
It's beautifully made and the scenes of nature are right up my alley, which was the same for the Tundra trailer. So, even if I'm not getting the library, the experience of the announcement videos is imo always great.


----------



## LamaRose

SF used to offer a library of Sable sans the legato patches... wish I had scored that way back when, and wish that they would re-release that library. If only Neo was a la carte... some really beautiful, detailed sustains and alt patches in this library.


----------



## Denkii

ism said:


> Man, I really do need this library. Such a pity I went so crazy on BF 2010


Still recovering from your shopping spree from 10 years ago?
Wow you must have really gone crazy!


----------



## ism

ysnyvz said:


> You might have enough but Christian doesn't. He will keep recording flautando until the end of time.


God, I hope so.


----------



## Lode_Runner

Norway... mountains... I thought this was going to be Albion VI Mountain King


----------



## South Thames

> But my cynicism dial is definitely not turned up to VI-Control levels, so who knows.



I would certainly hope I'm not in that category. I think it's more a question of having been on Spitfire's email list for a long time.

You may be right that the claims relate to composition trends not the library, but it is called 'neo'. And the portentousness of the first couple of sentences - revolutions, new-born babies - are a wire-brush to the hemorrhoids of anyone naturally sceptical of marketing bluster.


----------



## jbuhler

LamaRose said:


> SF used to offer a library of Sable sans the legato patches... wish I had scored that way back when, and wish that they would re-release that library. If only Neo was a la carte... some really beautiful, detailed sustains and alt patches in this library.


Yeah, that's how I started with Sable way back and at the time I think it cost me about the same as buying Neo will cost me now (with my Albion discounts).


----------



## CT

South Thames said:


> I would certainly hope I'm not in that category.



Dunno, but I hope not as well! No one deserves to be consigned to that existence. 



South Thames said:


> You may be right that the claims relate to composition trends not the library, but it is called 'neo'.



But it's neo precisely because of the neo-classical element, I assume, not anything more grandiose than that.


----------



## Technostica

South Thames said:


> I can almost imagine the marketing sessions to name this and conceptualise the marketing, with the employee of the month going to he or she who posits the most hyperbolic concept (I can imagine Christian having quite a few of those awards).
> 
> So much of Spitfire's range is now oriented towards this sort of Scandi chic stuff that to try to badge it as as 'neo' or a revolution just provokes eye rolls. It would make much more sense to explain how this picks up where Tundra left off, explores particular areas in more detail etc.
> 
> To me, the marketing could be just as stylish and effective without being so over the top. It would piss fewer people off and I don't actually think it would effect sales very much (anybody who follows Spitfire know the initial marketing claims are rarely justified).


As someone who is relatively new to these releases it is only in the last few months that the hyperbole has started to become rather tedious.
It is ironic to be selling some libraries linked to minimalist and subtle approaches in such a bombastic way.
I have an image of Philip Glass on a street corner of the Bowery in the 70s with a loudhailer in hand, promoting a gig.

Segla Textures does sound like a step forward in that area, although I'm not convinced that eDNA is on par with Heavyocity as an engine.


----------



## AndyP

In winter I long for warmth, it is already cold and while watching the videos I first had to wrap myself in a warm blanket. 🥶
Sounds interesting but I think I will wait until summer. :emoji_beach_umbrella:


----------



## South Thames

> But it's neo precisely because of the neo-classical element, I assume, not anything more grandiose than that.



I doubt it very much, but if it is this is where terms become so loose they are meaningless. Neo-classical means something very specific in music and refers to a specific relationship to and attempt to cultivate certain features of the music of the classical period in 20th century classical music. If people have been began using to describe the current Scandi/Nordic trends (which are neo-classical in what sense?), it's news to me.


----------



## Mike Fox

AndyP said:


> In winter I long for warmth, it is already cold and while watching the videos I first had to wrap myself in a warm blanket. 🥶
> Sounds interesting but I think I will wait until summer. :emoji_beach_umbrella:


Totally! Not sure i want a library that reminds of the icy, cold breath of winter, lol!


----------



## AndyP

Why does SF manage to display 18 articulations on the same page in the smallest space while the space disappears in its own player?


----------



## CT

South Thames said:


> If people have been began using to describe the current Scandi/Nordic trends (which are neo-classical in what sense?), it's news to me.



Well, they have!


----------



## ism

South Thames said:


> If people have been began using to describe the current Scandi/Nordic trends (which are neo-classical in what sense?), it's news to me.




I don't think this article is a hugely musically sightful discussion of the emergence of the current usage of the term "neo-classical". But it's definitely a thing. (And has been since at least Sibelius, not withstanding the use of "neo-classical" circa Stravinsky et al)









Just don't call it 'indie classical'


Nico Muhly, Olafur Arnalds and a new generation of composers are successfully transposing classical tropes to a rock setting




www.theguardian.com


----------



## ism

Also, its a vast musical space we're talking about here, much larger that Scandi crime TV underscore. Or "scandi-chic" or "scandinavian nihilism" or any of the other disparagements being thrown around here.

And if you wanted to compose in this style with samples before about 3 years ago, you couldn't.

All I can say is thank God for the revolution flautando sampling. There's not a day that I don't feel grateful to be alive in the era of great flautando samples rather than in the dark ages of what can before.

Seriously - has anyone ever tried to write Estonian minimalism with the VSL SE? You can't. You just can't. You can bang you head into your daw until the end of time and it will only ever sound utterly terrible. Or rather, you can only aspire to getting it up the level of utterly terrible.

Then came Tundra ... and bliss it was to be alive in that spring ...


----------



## LamaRose

The eDNA Segla Textures are _very_ impressive... utterly fresh and organic. Christian did a great job illustrating the potential and ease of creating something original.


----------



## South Thames

> But it's definitely a thing. (And has been since Sibelius)



There's 20th-century neo-classicism - that I'm not disputing. But this is not a lineage from Sibelius to Olafur Arnaulds. 20th century neo-classicism is a closed chapter.

I must concede though based on the article that today, there's apparently folks who, fast and loose with their terms (and probably unaware of the term's actual usage), describe any music written by a hipster for acoustic instruments which isn't a song as 'neo-classical'. Which grates on me in exactly the same way as Spitfire's marketing bluster.


----------



## CT

South Thames said:


> 20th century neo-classicism is a closed chapter.



I'm not sure I agree. I think a lot of the characteristics of the Scandi thing and its many other incarnations are shared with the music that provoked the neo-classical moniker back then.

In any case, it's just some words.


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> Brushstrokes, shades, whatever, it's all from the same vein is my main point. All of those different brushstrokes are ultimately going to serve the exact same purpose: slow, dreamy, evolving, pad-like textures that can strongly enhance your compositions.
> 
> Spitfire completely nails that style better than anyone else, and if that's your thing, then that's totally cool. I'm not knocking that at all, because I actually love getting lost for hours with Tundra and the EVOs. They're amazing libraries.
> 
> And even though Neo is also probably just as amazing, and is technically different than Tundra (and all the EVOs), it's not different enough to justify the purchase, and the idea that Neo bridges all of these other libraries together just doesn't do anything for me.




If that's all you hear here, that that's of course totally fine. 

But just to be clear, I'm saying the exact opposite - the "fine brush strokes" that this library adds to the sonic palette via the chamber sections, in its sonority, legato, articulations etc, entirely open up spaces for composition that maintain the textures, evos, colours etc of the Tundra/ OACE ethos, and give you a fine enough brush to paint detail voice leading, intimate melodies and counter melodies, finely drawn figurations. 

Spaces I've been trying to get, but have often just not had the palette - or the mixing skills or whatever to get to.

But sure, if this isn't the sort of stuff you would write then maybe it is just another evo, or another of maligned example of Spitfire being taken over by scandinavian nihilism or vacuous trendiness or whatever. 

But I can look at JXL brass (with absolutely *zero* interest in ever buying it) - and respect the artistry that goes into the kind of musical possibilities it opens up, and appreciate the excitement of people as they have this new tool to get to where they couldn't before. 

So it's all good.


----------



## Go To 11

The day after Tundra came out I thought, man, I would love a tiny Tundra too. And now I have it! Those articulations deserved these small bands. And for the first time the Segla patches might finally tip me into synths. Great stuff!


----------



## South Thames

> In any case, it's just some words.



True and for the purpose of this thread, it's just one word, meaning 'new'. The connection to neo-classical is speculation. Personally, I reckon they just chose it cos it looked cool and implied novelty. 

But what an interesting conversation we'd have missed out on had they called it something less ambiguous.


----------



## ism

South Thames said:


> There's 20th-century neo-classicism - that I'm not disputing. But this is not a lineage from Sibelius to Olafur Arnaulds. 20th century neo-classicism is a closed chapter.



Musical lineage is incredible rich and complex. But there's an easily discernable line between Part and Arnalds. Which mean that any discernible influence of Part is therefore an discernible line to Arnalds. 

But sure - there's a marketing vacuousness to the term "neo-classical" in this incarnation. 

Olafur himself (I don't remember if it was in the above article or elsewhere) talks about how he went from playing tiny cafes to the Royal Albert Hall overnight simply because some marketer (presumably at the erased tapes label) had invented the term "Neo-classical". With is the same way that "World Musics" (which isn't really a thing either) suddenly became a thing.


----------



## Lode_Runner

South Thames said:


> I doubt it very much, but if it is this is where terms become so loose they are meaningless. Neo-classical means something very specific in music and refers to a specific relationship to and attempt to cultivate certain features of the music of the classical period in 20th century classical music. If people have been began using to describe the current Scandi/Nordic trends (which are neo-classical in what sense?), it's news to me.


So... Yngwie Malmsteen isn't neo-classical?


----------



## South Thames

> Musical lineage is incredible rich and complex. But there's an easily discernable line between Part and Arnalds. Which mean that any discernible influence of Part is therefore an discernible line to Arnalds.



Sure, and if someone described either of them as minimalists of some flavour I wouldn't mind as I think it is in some sense descriptive of the aesthetic (even though any connection with the classical minimalism of Reich/Reilly etc is obviously fairly remote).

But, as you sort of point out, neo-classicism as a shorthand for 'contemporary music (not 'songs') of any kind which won't necessarily make you want to hack your ears off' gets into the territory of marketing labels rather than aesthetic ones.


----------



## ism

South Thames said:


> True and for the purpose of this thread, it's just one word, meaning 'new'. The connection to neo-classical is speculation. Personally, I reckon they just chose it cos it looked cool and implied novelty.
> 
> But what an interesting conversation we'd have missed out on had they called it something less ambiguous.




The vacuousness of the way that the marketers coined the term "neo-classical" aside, there are genuinely significant musical forces at unearth it. 

For one thing, its your classical composer rebelling against the generations of academic classical music that required modernist atonality take precedence over the bourgeois idiocies of such degenerate concepts like "melody" or "music that's actually nice to listen to". (Olafur and Christian both have stories about being drummed out of college for not being interesting in academic music that they didn't like).

And there have been good discussion on in here before. A couple I recall:






__





I made a track that sparked a debate about Neo-Classical music


Had a little go, and had a blast composing it. Any feedback is more than welcome as always.




vi-control.net










John Luther Adams: Tundra, Time Macro and The Neo-classical Manifesto.


So first, clearly I lied in the title here since there's obviously no such thing as the "Neo-classical Manifesto". But it's a convenient fiction. And it's the sort thing I've been thinking about while listening to a lot John Luther Adams in the last few days as I try to convince myself that...




vi-control.net





And there's an interesting relation between film music, "neo classical", various flavours of minimalist (particularly the "Holy Minimalism" of Part et al - though of course that's just another vacuous term of the record labels), ambient music, and traditional forms of chamber music. (Also, I would argue swedish chamber choirs, though I don't quite know how to articulate that one yet (though if anyone at Spitfire is listening ... I'd really a sweedish chamber choir library)).


----------



## Mike Fox

ism said:


> If that's all you hear here, that that's of course totally fine.
> 
> But just to be clear, I'm saying the exact opposite - the "fine brush strokes" that this library adds to the sonic palette via the chamber sections, in its sonority, legato, articulations etc, entirely open up spaces for composition that maintain the textures, evos, colours etc of the Tundra/ OACE ethos, and give you a fine enough brush to paint detail voice leading, intimate melodies and counter melodies, finely drawn figurations.
> 
> Spaces I've been trying to get, but have often just not had the palette - or the mixing skills or whatever to get to.
> 
> But sure, if this isn't the sort of stuff you would write then maybe it is just another evo, or another of maligned example of Spitfire being taken over by scandinavian nihilism or vacuous trendiness or whatever.
> 
> But I can look at JXL brass (with absolutely *zero* interest in ever buying it) - and respect the artistry that goes into the kind of musical possibilities it opens up, and appreciate the excitement of people as they have this new tool to get to where they couldn't before.
> 
> So it's all good.


I definitely don't hear what you're describing, but i can certainly appreciate your enthusiasm for Neo, and hope you get exactly what you want from it. Cheers!


----------



## colony nofi

quick community service announcement. For those who have the rest of the albions, you can complete the albion bundle, and the price is GREAT! About $244USD for me here in Aus (so that includes our GST!)


----------



## Brasart

It's clearly stated that it's a "new era" in the sense that the last decade was dominated by enormous orchestras and big ostinatos with heavy sound design, while this decades starts out with lots of more intimate score using chamber sized ensembles and lighter sound design.
I don't understand why it seems to be misunderstood, the only way it could be is if you hadn't watched the intro video.


----------



## Soundhound

What drove the 'new' element of the positioning of this library is the release date. New decade, 2020. Combined with the weight that 'revolutionary', 'revolution', 'change agent' are the first things that go up on a marketing whiteboard, and resist being crossed out with the power of a thousand suns.

It's just marketing, y'all. The library sounds freaking beautiful.


----------



## South Thames

Brasart said:


> It's clearly stated that it's a "new era" in the sense that the last decade was dominated by enormous orchestras and big ostinatos with heavy sound design, while this decades starts out with lots of more intimate score using chamber sized ensembles and lighter sound design.
> I don't understand why it seems to be misunderstood, the only way it could is if you hadn't watched the intro video.



Except that Spitfire have released umpteen products riffing on 'intimate scores using chamber sized ensembles and lighter sound design' in what would very much appear to me to be the very same last decade. I don't misunderstand it - it's just the attempt to make the facts appears as if they fit the marketing brief, but unfortunately it doesn't really convince. 



> It's just marketing, y'all.



Yup.


----------



## ism

South Thames said:


> But, as you sort of point out, neo-classicism as a shorthand for 'contemporary music (not 'songs') of any kind which won't necessarily make you want to hack your ears off' gets into the territory of marketing labels rather than aesthetic ones.



I think my point is that beneath the marketing, there's a large and very genuine musical and cultural moment here - although of course the way the term is thrown about is incredibly vague...

... Which is why I'm always up for a conversation of "just what is this "neo-classical" music thing anyway". 

(Incidentally, here's another thread where I pontificate - incredibly vaguely - about "just what is "neo-classical" any way" vis-a-vis Tundra:






Albion v tundra at the edge of silence - worth $199?


It is a godsend for quirkiness, imperfections, subtlety and texture. At this price, I'd buy it just for the extended woodwind & brass palette. The bends, multiphonics, overblown, air, etc. artics are what I've been missing. The strings and other instruments are just a bonus. edit: and...




vi-control.net




).


But in the landscape of new orchestral music, there also a distinct label of "contemporary classical" - which is of course equally nebulous, though I do like to subscribe to the bandcamp "contemporary classical" mailing list as I do find interesting new music that way. And it does occasionally have some overlap with what I understand to be (however vaguely) "neo-classical".

There's also "ambient classical" label, which is often seen to overlap what I consider to be genuinely "neo-classical". But I don't find it the same thing at all.

My latest theory is that its about counterpoint.

If there's just lots of nice textures performed with orchestral instruments, then it's "ambient classical".

If it has contrapuntal interaction of multiple lines and/or some way of referencing tradition classical chamber music of some sort, then this is why it gets interesting, and when I think it get to be called "neo-classical".

A lot of comments of Olafur Arnalds youtube videos, are think like "ohh that's so ambient and relaxing". Which to me suggests that its being listened to as ambient music. Which is fine of course, but not why I listen to it, and not why I buy Spitfire libraries.

And one of the things about Tundra (and I'm entirely willing to bet, Albion Neo) is that it makes it blissfully easy to write utterly, mind bendingly, gorgeous ambient mush (in a cat walking across the keyboard kind of way).

Of course, the prevalence of this much in my output is in very large part, simply my lack of skill as a composer (though I'm starting to remember some of that voice leading I studied in college). 

But it's also the case that to avoid descent into ambient mush - or trailer music, or scandinavian crime underscore and "ambient classical" or hybrid or any number of other ypes of music (entirely lovely in themselves) , it really helps to have a palette capable of finer brush strokes, and capable of more intricate contrapuntal interactions. (Which is part of why I love clarinets so much).

But this is why I'm excited about Albion Neo. Quite irrespective of the marketing. (I don't even think it sounds cold). Because of how it reaches to this new space that uses these gorgeous timbres, but is still very much orchestral music.


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> I definitely don't hear what you're describing, but i can certainly appreciate your enthusiasm for Neo, and hope you get exactly what you want from it. Cheers!


Totally fair. Best.


----------



## ism

Brasart said:


> It's clearly stated that it's a "new era" in the sense that the last decade was dominated by enormous orchestras and big ostinatos with heavy sound design, while this decades starts out with lots of more intimate score using chamber sized ensembles and lighter sound design.
> I don't understand why it seems to be misunderstood, the only way it could be is if you hadn't watched the intro video.



I predict that the 2020s, whatever else it may bring, has many fabulous innovations in fff trombone samples in store for us yet.

But 3 years ago, Tundra was it.

But while what's fashionable in the Scandi crime noir underscore du jour may very well evolve in the present decade, I do sincerely hope that the era of sample libraries in the space opening before us has only just begun.

(And has more legatos. And violas).


----------



## Brasart

gst98 said:


> I think it's a little premature in the decade to decide what the defining sound will be, but I suspect the next Christopher Nolan film is still going to be as filled with big Ostinatos and heavy sound design. The more interesting thing is that ludwig goransson is doing his next film and he genuinely brings a new flavor to film scores. His kind of pop infulenced orchestrations could actually be the new trend.



I'm not saying it is, I'm saying it's the reasoning behind the library's name, which some people are labelling as presumptuous or over-the-top; Albion : New Era Maybe But Let's Wait Some More And We'll See About Ostinatos doesn't have quite the same ring to it!


----------



## SupremeFist

I'm going to hold out for Spitfire's library of ambient elevator noodling, Albion ENO.


----------



## South Thames

> But in the landscape of new orchestral music, there also a distinct label of "contemporary classical" - which is of course equally nebulous, though I do like to subscribe to the bandcamp "contemporary classical" mailing list as I do find interesting new music that way. And it does occasionally have some overlap with what I understand to be (however vaguely) "neo-classical".
> 
> There's also "ambient classical" label, which is often seen to overlap what I consider to be genuinely "neo-classical". But I don't find it the same thing at all.
> 
> My latest theory is that its about counterpoint.
> 
> If there's just lots of nice textures performed with orchestral instruments, then it's "ambient classical".
> 
> If it has contrapuntal interaction of multiple lines and/or some way of referencing tradition classical chamber music of some sort, then this is why it gets interesting, and when I think it get to be called "neo-classical".
> 
> A lot of comments of Olafur Arnalds youtube videos, are think like "ohh that's so ambient and relaxing". Which to me suggests that its being listened to as ambient music. Which is fine of course, but not why I listen to it, and not why I buy Spitfire libraries.
> 
> And one of the things about Tundra (and I'm entirely willing to bet, Albion Neo) is that it makes it blissfully easy to write utterly, mind bendingly, gorgeous ambient mush (in a cat walking across the keyboard kind of way).



'Contemporary classical music' is to me, like 'film music'. It's a description of the purpose for which the music is made, rather than an aesthetic, and is useful for basic classification if nothing else. I guess you could say the same about ambient classical, though the problem there is that the interest threshold necessary to define 'ambience' is very much in the ear of the listener. I can listen very raptly to music that washes over others like a warm bath. 

Interesting theory about neo-classicism and counterpoint. I'm not sure I often hear what I would think of as counterpoint (co-existing linear structures with their own shape and purpose) in much of this music -- more often I hear what I would describe as skilful layering -- but as some kind of criteria to separate the ambient from the more-than-ambient, it seems like a good start to me.


----------



## Loïc D

So, after Albion ONE and NEO, I guess the next will be Albion ENO, for even more ambient stuff.


----------



## kimgaboury

Glad to see its in Kontakt. I tried to but I don' t like their Spitfire Plugin, the way it deals with paths of libraries, the server, downloading, etc. Feels counter-intuitive to me. I'm having bugs, while i don’t have any problems with any other Kontakt libraries. Wish they would abandon it and revert.


----------



## 5Lives

Haven't read the entire thread, but as working composers, I bet Christian and Paul have a sense of where film & TV music is moving in terms of trends. Not to say all music will be of a particular palette of course, but as businessmen and composers, they probably saw an opportunity and an unfilled opening in the market that would be growing in the next few years - and this is their answer to it. And maybe they are totally off base and wrong with their prediction...or maybe they are right.

Either way, often times, output is sculpted by the tools we use and this is the tool that Spitfire has decided to provide. Either it inspires you or it doesn't. Trance gates, braams, felt pianos, etc. - all have similar effect.


----------



## asherpope

christianhenson said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.... where sax is concerned think Nyman, Glass, Penguin Cafe Orchestra.


I for one would absolutely love a Penguin Cafe inspired library. It's been my holy grail for years!


----------



## avocado89

I want to love this, bow down at the Alter of Spitfire Audio, and kiss the feet of Christian and Paul, but I just can't shake the feeling it's just another money grab. Now don't get me wrong, I love the demos for this new library and I think there are some very inspiring sounds - but it just kind of seems to similar to tundra and some of there other offerings. I kind of found my self having tundra deja vu when watching the release trailer, and chuckled when I heard Christian uttering one of his favourite phrases "recorded on the edge of silence". Also, with a price point of $449 ($349 intro) which works out to be about $600 CAD - which is a tough pill to swallow for NEO *pun intended*. I think I will wait for the feedback to trickle out, and hey maybe they'll have another deep discount sale like they dead last May.


----------



## christianhenson

Defo not a money grab. Loegria was the point at which PT and I went “ok something special is happening here”. NEO is our replacement for this incredibly important library, but one that we felt didn’t quite hold up the Spitfire bar we now have. We understand that people already have Loegria, and ONE and Tundra where there is definitely overlap which is why people who already own them will get an even better discount during the launch period.


----------



## jbuhler

christianhenson said:


> Defo not a money grab. Loegria was the point at which PT and I went “ok something special is happening here”. NEO is our replacement for this incredibly important library, but one that we felt didn’t quite hold up the Spitfire bar we now have. We understand that people already have Loegria, and ONE and Tundra where there is definitely overlap which is why people who already own them will get an even better discount during the launch period.


I hope you will find a way to re-release the Loegria strings in some form (Originals?). They are some of my favorites and it's sad they are no longer available. I also love what I've heard of the Neo strings but I think they are complementary.


----------



## Technostica

I really enjoyed Christian’s dive into eDNA for this library.
For a second there I had conversion rates on my mind.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> I hope you will find a way to re-release the Loegria strings in some form (Originals?). They are some of my favorites and it's sad they are no longer available. I also love what I've heard of the Neo strings but I think they are complementary.



That's another thing that confuses me. I thought Loegeria sounded great and was unique, but I never got the chance to buy it.

This is all very similar to how Spitfire re-recorded the first Albion, but this time they've decided to omit the original name, not give original owners a discount, and not include the legacy content.

Perhaps I'm missing something here?


----------



## 5Lives

Mike Fox said:


> That's another thing that confuses me. I thought Loegeria sounded great and was unique, but I never got the chance to buy it.
> 
> This is all very similar to how Spitfire re-recorded the first Albion, but this time they've decided to omit the original name, not give original owners a discount, and not include the legacy content.
> 
> Perhaps I'm missing something here?



Yes you are - they are giving Albion owners a discount. Also, as Christian's post seems to say, it is a re-imagining of Loegeria, which they did not feel met their standards (despite how much other users loved it).


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> That's another thing that confuses me. I thought Loegeria sounded great and was unique, but I never got the chance to buy it.
> 
> This is all very similar to how Spitfire re-recorded the first Albion, but this time they've decided to omit the original name, not give original owners a discount, and not include the legacy content.
> 
> Perhaps I'm missing something here?


The libraries are not as similar as Albion I/Albion One. The strings are the closest but even there, I don't get the sense that they set out to remake the Loegria strings the way Albion One is definitely realizing the same concept as Albion I. The strings of Neo are as much a little brother to Tundra as they are a descendant of Loegria. The brass are somewhat similar to Loegria but the approach is quite different, and again as proximate to Tundra as to Loegria. The winds have nothing to do with Loegria. So conceptually, I see completely why they do not really see this as a replacement. 

They did give owners of Loegria a discount btw, as well as owners of Albion One, and indeed of Albion I, and they stack if you own both Albion One and Albion 1 with a further discount if you own Loegria and Iceni, and Uist. The discount is not as steep as they offered for Albion One, but again, this library is conceptually much farther from Loegria than One was of 1.


----------



## Mike Fox

5Lives said:


> Yes you are - they are giving Albion owners a discount. Also, as Christian's post seems to say, it is a re-imagining of Loegeria, which they did not feel met their standards (despite how much other users loved it).


And apparently Albion 1 didn't meet their standards either, which is why they re-recorded it, but they at least included the legacy content. That was a huge plus, and if NEO is a replacement for Loegeria, you'd think they would have done the same.

As far as the discount goes, you get one for owning all the other Albions, even if you never bought Loegeria.


----------



## cqd

5Lives said:


> Yes you are - they are giving Albion owners a discount. Also, as Christian's post seems to say, it is a re-imagining of Loegeria, which they did not feel met their standards (despite how much other users loved it).



No.. the upgrade from Albion 1 to ONE was $99..


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> The libraries are not as similar as Albion I/Albion One. The strings are the closest but even there, I don't get the sense that they set out to remake the Loegria strings the way Albion One is definitely realizing the same concept as Albion I. The strings of Neo are as much a little brother to Tundra as they are a descendant of Loegria. The brass are somewhat similar to Loegria but the approach is quite different, and again as proximate to Tundra as to Loegria. The winds have nothing to do with Loegria. So conceptually, I see completely why they do not really see this as a replacement.
> 
> They did give owners of Loegria a discount btw, as well as owners of Albion One, and indeed of Albion I, and they stack if you own both Albion One and Albion 1 with a further discount if you own Loegria and Iceni, and Uist. The discount is not as steep as they offered for Albion One, but again, this library is conceptually much farther from Loegria than One was of 1.


Perhaps you can understand my confusion then, especially when the founder of Spitfire states that this was a replacement for Loegeria, yet people don't even see it as one.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> And apparently Albion 1 didn't meet their standards either, which is why they re-recorded it, but they at least included the legacy content. That was a huge plus, and if NEO is a replacement for Loegeria, you'd think they would have done the same.
> 
> As far as the discount goes, you get one for owning all the other Albions, even if you never bought Loegeria.


I think they now realize they can still sell the legacy content, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Loegria strings and perhaps even the horneuph enjoy a new life as Originals. Indeed I think they could sell the Loegria strings for much more than they are selling the current Originals, especially if they include the legatos.


----------



## Technostica

1 Albion - extra 5% off
2 Albions - extra 10% off
3 Albions - extra 15% off
4 Albions - extra 20% off
5 Albions - extra 25% off
6 Albions - extra 30% off
*This includes owners of discontinued products; Albion Legacy & Albion II Loegria


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> I think they now realize they can still sell the legacy content, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Loegria strings and perhaps even the horneuph enjoy a new life as Originals. Indeed I think they could sell the Loegria strings for much more than they are selling the current Originals, especially if they include the legatos.


Oh, I'm sure they will. Why give away legacy content when you can sell it?


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> Perhaps you can understand my confusion then, especially when the founder of Spitfire states that this was a replacement for Loegeria, yet people don't even see it as one.


Neo replaces the "slot" of Loegria "between" One and Tundra. In that respect it's a replacement. Loegria was a great but confused library. Neo has more conceptual clarity. I think people are right to wonder if its concept is too close to Tundra (it seems less "between" than "next to" Tundra) but even with the limited exposure I've had to Neo, it's already way more coherent as a concept than I ever found Loegria to be.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> Oh, I'm sure they will. Why give away legacy content when you can sell it?


And if they do and follow their policy of the past where you don't repay for samples you already own then those of us who own Loegria will get an updated, more playable version for free. So there's a benefit to legacy owners as well.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> Neo replaces the "slot" of Loegria "between" One and Tundra. In that respect it's a replacement. Loegria was a great but confused library. Neo has more conceptual clarity. I think people are right to wonder if its concept is too close to Tundra (it seems less "between" than "next to" Tundra) but even with the limited exposure I've had to Neo, it's already way more coherent as a concept than I ever found Loegria to be.


Interesting interpretation.

I only see Neo as...

"Echoing the subtle, nuanced sound of Albion Tundra, but with a smaller ensemble to give you more definition".

Their words, not mine. But i certainly agree with them.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> And if they do and follow their policy of the past where you don't repay for samples you already own then those of us who own Loegria will get an updated, more playable version for free. So there's a benefit to legacy owners as well.


That would be great. I'd love to see that.


----------



## givemenoughrope

Tried the NEO string patches at NAMM ba lam today. They are nice I have to say. The library that begged me to buy it is Kepler though. The material I found in there did not come across in any demo or walkthrough Ive heard. So that’s on my short list for sure.


----------



## josephwmorgan

Not trying to stir the pot too much here. But legitimately curious, as a potential customer, if this is all new content? Just saw this comparison vid on Twitter which makes me wonder!


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> Interesting interpretation.
> 
> I only see Neo as...
> 
> "Echoing the subtle, nuanced sound of Albion Tundra, but with a smaller ensemble to give you more definition".
> 
> Their words, not mine. But i certainly agree with them.


And you can read that as: "wow, cool, more of what I love about Tundra" or "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt." Another axis I don't recall anyone mentioning is that you can go from small (Neo) to large (Tundra) to immense (HZ Strings) all recorded in Air and all working with these very subtle textural longs. 

I do think the Albion series continues to have a gap for a library that is the soft version of Albion One (a standard orchestra but soft). I have suspicions about why that might be the case and the difficulties of delivering it in ensemble form but it's a gap in the lineup nonetheless.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> That would be great. I'd love to see that.


That's what they did with the Originals from Albion I. If you owned the legacy Albion I, you got Originals for free.


----------



## ism

josephwmorgan said:


> Not trying to stir the pot too much here. But legitimately curious, as a potential customer, if this is all new content? Just saw this comparison vid on Twitter which makes me wonder!



Classic "All you sul tastos looks the same to me".


----------



## CT

The same techniques, played in the same space, played by similar ensembles and numbers of players, possibly by some of the same players themselves, and possibly recorded by the same mics, sound similar?!


----------



## Mike Fox

ism said:


> Classic "All you sul tastos looks the same to me".


With good reason.


----------



## jbuhler

josephwmorgan said:


> Not trying to stir the pot too much here. But legitimately curious, as a potential customer, if this is all new content? Just saw this comparison vid on Twitter which makes me wonder!



The Spitfire FAQ says it's all new recordings. I can't imagine in a million years, SF would make that claim if it wasn't true as it would be far too easy to show they are reusing patches. In any case, playing along with Paul, it sounded to me like new recordings, and as close to Tundra as to Loegria.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> With good reason.


Do you really want to start talking about the sameness of horror shorts?


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> Do you really want to start talking about the sameness of horror shorts?


Oh, I'll gladly do that.


----------



## josephwmorgan

miket said:


> The same techniques, played in the same space, played by similar ensembles and numbers of players, possibly by some of the same players themselves, and possibly recorded by the same mics, sound similar?!



I can’t tell if you realize you’re making my point or not?


----------



## CT

josephwmorgan said:


> I can’t tell if you realize you’re making my point or not?



Neither can I.


----------



## brenneisen

josephwmorgan said:


> Not trying to stir the pot too much here. But legitimately curious, as a potential customer, if this is all new content? Just saw this comparison vid on Twitter which makes me wonder!




sorry, this kind of BS doesn't belong here ("COMMERCIAL Announcements")

if you really want to conspire there's a more appropriate thread:







Spitfire Albion VI??


What do you guys think this one is going to be about???




vi-control.net


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> With good reason.



If it was another library full of fff trombones from Audio Imperia, say, then DJ would have enormous depths of insights to share with us on it's nuances and critical differences from the last 5 libraries of fff brass. And it would probably last hours. This is in no way a criticism, I genuine appreciate the insight and the enthusiasm and the artistry.

But for this library - which to my ear is enormously different from Logria (which I still want, and which in no way feels redundant to Neo) - we get a kind of dogwhistingly dismissive lowest common denominator "comparison". 

But it's fine, DJ probably doesn't need this library, and that's totally valid.


----------



## josephwmorgan

brenneisen said:


> sorry, this kind of BS doesn't belong here ("COMMERCIAL Announcements")
> 
> if you really want to conspire there's a more appropriate thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Albion VI??
> 
> 
> What do you guys think this one is going to be about???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



? Seems like having a question about a newly announced commercial library belongs in a thread about commercial announcements of libraries. I’m a huge Spitfire fan but saw this video and had a valid question. Calling something into question isn’t a conspiracy, it’s becoming a more informed customer. Relax


----------



## markleake

Yeah, these are clearly new recordings, not from Loegria. Daniel just likes to stir things up a bit to get the views. He knows.

I think I went through and liked almost every post from @jbuhler here. I totally agree with what he is saying.

NEO is a blend of Tundra and Loegria for the strings. The strings really do sound very good in NEO. Much smaller of course, so you get a good parallel with huge band in Tundra here. Although, like I noted in the other thread, maybe the low strings are a bit weak.

The other parts of NEO are more cohesive than Loegria, and very different from Loegria. So it's not really a Loegria replacement, it's more a rationalized and re-done version that leans very heavily on Tundra's ideas.

Bottom line is, NEO will be great for underscore/media. But it's hardly anything exciting for owners of Tundra or Loegria. In fact I think both Tundra and Loegria still eclipse NEO in some regards.


----------



## brenneisen

josephwmorgan said:


> question



sure, a "question" with an accusatory inflection

and a question that was already answered on their FAQ


----------



## ism

markleake said:


> But it's hardly anything exciting for owners of Tundra or Loegria.


As an owner of Tundra, I'd suggest that this statement is incorrect.

I do feel it to be closer to Tundra, conceptually, that Logeria though.


----------



## Mike Fox

ism said:


> If it was another library full of fff trombones from Audio Imperia, say, then DJ would have enormous depths of insights to share with us on it's nuances and critical differences from the last 5 libraries of fff brass. And it would probably last hours. This is in no way a criticism, I genuine appreciate the insight and the enthusiasm and the artistry.
> 
> But for this library - which to my ear is enormously different from Logria (which I still want, and which in no way feels redundant to Neo) - we get a kind of dogwhistingly dismissive lowest common denominator "comparison".
> 
> But it's fine, DJ probably doesn't need this library, and that's totally valid.


My comment wasn't a general one (i don't think all sul tastos sound the same). It was in response to those side by side clips, which I had tremendous difficulty telling apart.

Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the major differences between them?


----------



## CT

I love Tundra. Neo is pretty much what I expected it to be in relation to Tundra, but I'm surprised by how ambivalent I am about it fitting in with Tundra and EWC, and what I could do with that trio. But, there is something there... may evolve into desperate need to purchase by morning.


----------



## josephwmorgan

brenneisen said:


> sure, a "question" with an accusatory inflection
> 
> and a question that was already answered on their FAQ



I’d say a suspicious tone more than accusatory. I am a suspicious/hesitant customer doing my due diligence before purchasing a product. I saw a video on my twitter feed that seemed suspicious and thought that as the company and owners of the company (and subject of said video) are posting in this forum, this might be a good place to find out what the differences are between their previously released libraries and this new one (as the posted video unarguably sounds strikingly similar)

YOU CAUGHT ME!


----------



## erica-grace

josephwmorgan said:


> Not trying to stir the pot too much here. But legitimately curious, as a potential customer, if this is all new content? Just saw this comparison vid on Twitter which makes me wonder!



I think it's a case of same sample lib developer, same players, same room, same engineer, same desk, same mics.


----------



## Frank1985

I think it sounds pretty cool, but I feel I’m covered for that particular Scandi sound already with several of their other libraries. 

Personally I’d like to see them fill in that gap between 1 and 3, for the OCD among us  They say that Loegra was no longer to the same standards as everything else in their Albion line, but why couldn’t they just re-record/rerelease it like they did with Albion One?


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> As an owner of Tundra, I'd suggest that this statement is incorrect.
> 
> I do feel it to be closer to Tundra, conceptually, that Logeria though.


As an owner of both Tundra and Loegria, I'm also very interested in this library. I feel like it will occupy a definite place in my template. In terms of ensemble strings, several configurations present themselves to try, in a kind of conceptual Aperture: 1. Neo-Tundra-Loegria-Albion One. 2. Neo-Tundra-HZ Strings. 3. Neo-OACE-SCS. I'm tempted to draw up one of your Venn diagrams to try to get a better handle on this.

I do think @markleake has a point that a bit more access to the particularities of the individual instruments would have worked better conceptually for the winds and brass inasmuch as the ensemble is not just quiet but small and as such the idea of ensemble blend should have a somewhat different character (i.e., the way the small ensembles of the strings playing softly have a different character from the large ensemble of strings in Tundra playing quietly and this idea isn't really carried over to the winds and brass in the same way).


----------



## SvenE

Thank you Spitfire Audio for introducing me to Snorri Hallgrimson trough his Demo for Neo! I love his track "Avalanche" and was surprised that I had never heard of him before. Neo will be a great addition for me and I am curious to see what I can come up with combining it with LCO Textures, EWC, OACE, BDT and OT Time Micro etc, NI Noire etc. This is going to be an expensive month for me as I am also loving the new S+A product and I am in desperate need of a new and faster Mac.....


----------



## jbuhler

Frank1985 said:


> I think it sounds pretty cool, but I feel I’m covered for that particular Scandi sound already with several of their other libraries.
> 
> Personally I’d like to see them fill in that gap between 1 and 3, for the OCD among us  They say that Loegra was no longer to the same standards as everything else in their Albion line, but why couldn’t they just re-record/rerelease it like they did with Albion One?


To fill the gap between 1 and 3 required a completely different approach to the winds and a somewhat different approach to the brass from what was offered in Loegria, unless you really have a love for recorders and sackbutts, and wanted to see those rerecorded. SF did make the adjustment in terms of the wind and brass ensembles (though I would have preferred a somewhat different scoring of each) but then in terms of the concept they moved everything toward Tundra in addition. The unanswered question for me—I couldn't get a good read on this from Paul's walkthrough—is whether the basic long, short and legatos for winds and brass will allow Neo to serve as that softer sibling to One, with the additional articulations, which have received most of the attention, making it also the smaller sibling to Tundra. Or is it mostly just the smaller sibling of Tundra?


----------



## BezO

Not owning any Albions, I'm liking this way more than I expected. It's giving me something I like from the Heavyocity libs I own, but still very Spitfire.



givemenoughrope said:


> ...The library that begged me to buy it is Kepler though. The material I found in there did not come across in any demo or walkthrough Ive heard. So that’s on my short list for sure.


I got Kepler during the holiday sale. Love the sound, hate the presentation. It seems to need keyswitches, something to provide variety. Something to switch between the presets within each patch would suffice.


----------



## 5Lives

cqd said:


> No.. the upgrade from Albion 1 to ONE was $99..



Still giving a discount for NEO to Albion owners, which was the original incorrect statement. If it isn't as big of a discount as Albion ONE had for upgrading, there's probably a reason for that.


----------



## givemenoughrope

BezO said:


> Not owning any Albions, I'm liking this way more than I expected. It's giving me something I like from the Heavyocity libs I own, but still very Spitfire.
> 
> I got Kepler during the holiday sale. Love the sound, hate the presentation. It seems to need keyswitches, something to provide variety. Something to switch between the presets within each patch would suffice.



At this point, to me, as long as the layout allows me to get an idea going and I can load most things quickly I would just print to audio and edit. Not convenient but whatever.


----------



## markleake

ism said:


> As an owner of Tundra, I'd suggest that this statement is incorrect.
> 
> I do feel it to be closer to Tundra, conceptually, that Logeria though.


Well, as an owner of Tundra, I'd suggest that the statement is correct. 

Yes, I know there's gonna be a few people like you who are enthused. It does sound nice, I agree.
But a large swath of Tundra/Loegria owners will shrug their shoulders, methinks.


----------



## paulthomson

josephwmorgan said:


> Not trying to stir the pot too much here. But legitimately curious, as a potential customer, if this is all new content? Just saw this comparison vid on Twitter which makes me wonder!




Hilarious. 🙄

EDIT:

Sorry I realise I didn’t answer the question. 

Yes of course it’s all new content. When we reuse content (epic strings etc) we clearly state this.


----------



## motomotomoto

I quite like the sound of it, although it’s not different enough from my other spitfire purchases to buy it. Don’t understand the blowback on here. They have a certain sound to their tools if you don’t like em get a different one.


----------



## Geoff Grace

.

The scenery in the promo video is breathtaking! I'm certainly more aurally focused than visually, but that video made me forget to listen as I marveled at the beauty of the landscape. Kudos to *Christian* and crew! I'm glad you all survived the journey. 

I equally enjoyed the "making of" video. Here it is, for those who may be interested:



.

As for the library itself, like others here, I very much like the sound of it. I'd probably buy it now if I didn't already have the other similar Spitfire libraries that have been mentioned above. That said, I can imagine getting it at a future wish list sale, as I still see Albion Neo as a valuable addition. In fact, I've already added it to my wish list.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## alchemist

paulthomson said:


> Yes of course it’s all new content. When we reuse content (epic strings etc) we clearly state this.



I too wasn't sure if all the recordings were 100% new or added on top of the Loegria sessions. Thanks @paulthomson for clearing that up. Will be getting this one, already put aside production budget when I saw the announcement and guessed it would be Loegria reimagined. I welcome the addition of this somewhat chamber tundra


----------



## Mark Schmieder

Now that I've had a chance to listen to the demos tonight, and compared to the other Albion offerings, I think this one sounds the best-recorded so far, as well as the smoothest transitions between articulations. I can't guarantee I'll personally buy it though, as I am moving away from hybrid scoring (and synths and pads in general) after getting a bit burnt out on that sound after a few decades of working that way. I'm moving back to working more with live musicians in general. But it is good to see the offerings continue to improve both in sound and in workflow and over GUI design.


----------



## Bluemount Score

I don't quite get the ONE - NEO reference in the logo animation. These two libraries are pretty different. As mentioned before, Neo is rather an "expansion" to Tundra, not to ONE, if at all.
Maybe it just looks cool


----------



## Geoff Grace

Bluemount Score said:


> I don't quite get the ONE - NEO reference in the logo animation. These two libraries are pretty different. As mentioned before, Neo is rather an "expansion" to Tundra, not to ONE, if at all.
> Maybe it just looks cool


I guess it could be considered as "One," if you're thinking of it as the first Albion of the new decade.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Brasart

I was about to say "Let's create a drama space on this forum so that Daniel James' posts and the few other petty posts can live and die there", but then I discovered that such a space already exists, and he that he already has a thread there


----------



## Will Wilson

I missed out on Albion 2 and am gutted. This does sound amazing though. As an owner of lots of Spitfire Libraries already I can still see how this will fit and work either on it's own or along side other products. Especially things like evos, Tundra and Felt Pianos.

Great work and looking forward to the 23rd!


----------



## KallumS

KallumS said:


> Albion Two: Electric Boogaloo



Called it


----------



## Alex Fraser

Will Wilson said:


> I missed out on Albion 2 and am gutted. This does sound amazing though. As an owner of lots of Spitfire Libraries already I can still see how this will fit and work either on it's own or along side other products. Especially things like evos, Tundra and Felt Pianos.
> 
> Great work and looking forward to the 23rd!


It does sound rather tasty. I'll add it to the list of libraries I "want but have no reason to buy yet."
I'm also pretty convinced that the guts of Albion 2 will re-appear at some point in an "originals" product.


----------



## christianhenson

jbuhler said:


> And if they do and follow their policy of the past where you don't repay for samples you already own then those of us who own Loegria will get an updated, more playable version for free. So there's a benefit to legacy owners as well.



im going to ask marketing to clarify the massive deal that we’ve made for existing Albion users.


----------



## josephwmorgan

paulthomson said:


> Hilarious. 🙄
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Sorry I realise I didn’t answer the question.
> 
> Yes of course it’s all new content. When we reuse content (epic strings etc) we clearly state this.



Great! Thank you for clarifying. Excited to check this out


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

Mr. Edinburgh said:


> Errr......
> 
> **
> 
> Thanks for this Daniel James...



This was just addressed by Paul on the previous page. It’s new recordings.


----------



## Brasart

I wonder where the same dishonest videos comparing simple lines from simple brass articulations from his favorite librairies are...?
I can't wait for the comparison thread where every single user can't tell the difference between the 40 different brass libraries playing one mf horn chord


----------



## Levon

All the demos sound great! Beautiful sounding library! Will be adding it to my growing Albion collection. Also a nice touch offering incremental discount based on number of other Albion’s that I have. Much appreciated.

Well done Spitfire!


----------



## Loïc D

Brasart said:


> I wonder where the same dishonest videos comparing simple lines from simple brass articulations from his favorite librairies are...?
> I can't wait for the comparison thread where every single user can't tell the difference between the 40 different brass libraries playing one mf horn chord


This !
And the fact that some ppl here keep on complaining (of course without owning the product yet) and consider every SF lib as a moustache-twirling evil-scheme.

Well, same pro players playing the same instruments & articulations in the same room recorded the same way by the same pro engineers end up sounding similar. What a wonder.

Oh wait, maybe this is exactly what you’d expect from professionals!...


----------



## Olfirf

Brasart said:


> I was about to say "Let's create a drama space on this forum so that Daniel James' posts and the few other petty posts can live and die there", but then I discovered that such a space already exists, and he that he already has a thread there


Maybe a drama section is not enough ... maybe we should also create a "bootlicker-section" in the forum!  People may post the usual phrases like "congrats on the great release" or pictures of throwing money there ... and then, this is of course a great place for all members ranting about other members' posts ... What do you think? Does that sound fair to you?


----------



## jbuhler

christianhenson said:


> im going to ask marketing to clarify the massive deal that we’ve made for existing Albion users.


Just to clarify: I personally think what SF is offering now to Loegria owners for Neo is perfectly fair. And I’ve explained above that I don’t see Neo as a remake of a Loegria. My comment was in reference to a completely hypothetical “Originsls” version of the Loegria Strings.


----------



## Brasart

Olfirf said:


> Maybe a dram section is not enough ... maybe we should also create a "bootlicker-section" in the forum!  People may post the usual phrases like "congrats on the great release" or pictures of throwing money there ... and then, this is of course a great place for all members ranting about other members' posts ... What do you think? Does that sound fair to you?



Weird post, I don't equal enthusiasm with weird 'conspiracy' videos trying to imply something — I have no issues with criticism, I don't agree with Mike Fox but I totally understand his point of view


----------



## Olfirf

josephwmorgan said:


> Not trying to stir the pot too much here. But legitimately curious, as a potential customer, if this is all new content? Just saw this comparison vid on Twitter which makes me wonder!



Weird conspiracy? The video just points out that these libraries sound pretty much alike - at least concerning the two patches showed there. That to me has nothing to do with conspiracy theories, it is merely helping in an educated decision wether to buy this or not. Owning Albion Loegria, I am in this situation as well. I get some discount for having all other Albions. But it still is 250 bucks - not exactly a no-brainer, if you are pretty much covered with those sounds (additional overlaps with Tundra and others).
The problem I have with your former post is, that you are bitching about what other people post. I have no problem what so ever with you having a different opinion. As you see ... you also find it "weird", when someone else is bitching about your posts, eh?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

ism said:


> As an owner of Tundra, I'd suggest that this statement is incorrect.
> 
> I do feel it to be closer to Tundra, conceptually, that Logeria though.


I have to agree here
Having listened to the demos and was instantly interested as a Tundra owner 

I wonder how they would all work together for layering: Tundra, ONE, NEO, OSwarm, and BDT...


----------



## Olfirf

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I have to agree here
> Having listened to the demos and was instantly interested as a Tundra owner
> 
> I wonder how they would all work together for layering: Tundra, ONE, NEO, OSwarm, and BDT...


They will sound like Hans Zimmer strings. 200 players and the same room ...


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Frank1985 said:


> I think it sounds pretty cool, but I feel I’m covered for that particular Scandi sound already with several of their other libraries.
> 
> Personally I’d like to see them fill in that gap between 1 and 3, for the OCD among us  They say that Loegra was no longer to the same standards as everything else in their Albion line, but why couldn’t they just re-record/rerelease it like they did with Albion One?


Why did you mention that? I can see it now, there is no unseeing this


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Alex Fraser said:


> It does sound rather tasty. I'll add it to the list of libraries I "want but have no reason to buy yet."
> I'm also pretty convinced that the guts of Albion 2 will re-appear at some point in an "originals" product.


I "want but have no reason to buy yet." <-- That pretty much sums up my whole Spitfire Audio Wishlist...


----------



## Di Para

We should see Albion Neo Redux this summer. It will be all of Albion Neo, except with Nigel instead of Olivia on Clarinet.


----------



## styledelk

I love Oliver's demo track. Homay's, too.

I'm just trying to hear this as is, and I love the sound.

The walkthroughs made me not want to ignore the EDNA stuff this time around.

Not sure if I'm able to get this right away or not, but it's definitely in my wheelhouse.


----------



## styledelk

styledelk said:


> I love Oliver's demo track. Homay's, too.
> 
> I'm just trying to hear this as is, and I love the sound.
> 
> The walkthroughs made me not want to ignore the EDNA stuff this time around.
> 
> Not sure if I'm able to get this right away or not, but it's definitely in my wheelhouse.



I take it back. I love all of the demos.


----------



## Frank1985

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Why did you mention that? I can see it now, there is no unseeing this


Why? It’s not like I told you to imagine Paul Thompson naked or anything


----------



## gussunkri

Frank1985 said:


> Why? It’s not like I told you to imagine Paul Thompson naked or anything


Being very excited?


----------



## Frank1985

Whatever floats your boat


----------



## josephwmorgan

Frank1985 said:


> Why? It’s not like I told you to imagine Paul Thompson naked or anything



this forum just gets weirder and weirder


----------



## BezO

givemenoughrope said:


> At this point, to me, as long as the layout allows me to get an idea going and I can load most things quickly I would just print to audio and edit. Not convenient but whatever.


Yeah, it's workable. I use multiple instances to accomplish what I want. But I would appreciate an update.


----------



## easyrider

What did I miss?


----------



## CT

Spitfire release. VI-Control arguing. DJ skeptical.


----------



## thesteelydane

Being a bit of a Loegria enthusiast (which I was lucky enough to discuss with Christian recently), I expect great things from this library, and will share my thoughts very soon.

For now though, let me say this: Very happy to see the inclusion of the harmonium patches! They sound great, but even better than that, is that harmoniums receiving the Spitfire stamp of approval makes them instantly cool again, and this in turn will drive up sales of my own harmonium - right? I mean, who wouldn’t want a sampled harmonium? They are the felt pianos of the organ world, after all!


----------



## barteredbride

christianhenson said:


> Defo not a money grab. Loegria was the point at which PT and I went “ok something special is happening here”. NEO is our replacement for this incredibly important library, but one that we felt didn’t quite hold up the Spitfire bar we now have. We understand that people already have Loegria, and ONE and Tundra where there is definitely overlap which is why people who already own them will get an even better discount during the launch period.


So what was it exactly that you were not happy with about Loegria?? 

I guess you have learnt a lot since that library and NEO was a chance to get closer to your original ideas. 

I love the NEO library btw!


----------



## christianhenson

You said it! Lots learned, there were aspects of the original that lacked finesse IMHO.

When Loegria came out a large number of people voiced their love of the half section or divisi articulations. Of which there were only a few, so we thought we'd play on that strength primarily and look at the choice of brass and woods and make them AND the loops more versatile and usable as opposed to the quirky colours that were in Loegria. I think what you have now is a much more versatile library from someone wanting to venture into orchestral without going epic and a wonderful additional tool kit to add to your existing symphonics, or chambers.

So for me a new Loegria for the '20s, a great alternative or next step from ONE, and Tundra part ii all wrapped into one or rather neo library!


----------



## Mike Fox

christianhenson said:


> You said it! Lots learned, there were aspects of the original that lacked finesse IMHO.
> 
> When Loegria came out a large number of people voiced their love of the half section or divisi articulations. Of which there were only a few, so we thought we'd play on that strength primarily and look at the choice of brass and woods and make them AND the loops more versatile and usable as opposed to the quirky colours that were in Loegria. I think what you have now is a much more versatile library from someone wanting to venture into orchestral without going epic and a wonderful additional tool kit to add to your existing symphonics, or chambers.
> 
> So for me a new Loegria for the '20s, a great alternative or next step from ONE, and Tundra part ii all wrapped into one or rather neo library!


So how much overlap is there between Neo and Loegeria? I ask, because i became greatly interested in Loegeria, but that was after it being discontinued. 

If Neo is 75% Loegeria, then i might re-consider buying it.


----------



## emasters

I still like the Ensemble String instrument in Loegria -- has a nice sound with a smaller group. Already pre-ordered Neo -- looking forward to working with it.


----------



## jbuhler

thesteelydane said:


> Being a bit of a Loegria enthusiast (which I was lucky enough to discuss with Christian recently), I expect great things from this library, and will share my thoughts very soon.
> 
> For now though, let me say this: Very happy to see the inclusion of the harmonium patches! They sound great, but even better than that, is that harmoniums receiving the Spitfire stamp of approval makes them instantly cool again, and this in turn will drive up sales of my own harmonium - right? I mean, who wouldn’t want a sampled harmonium? They are the felt pianos of the organ world, after all!


Such great noises yours has too!


----------



## barteredbride

christianhenson said:


> You said it! Lots learned, there were aspects of the original that lacked finesse IMHO.
> 
> When Loegria came out a large number of people voiced their love of the half section or divisi articulations. Of which there were only a few, so we thought we'd play on that strength primarily and look at the choice of brass and woods and make them AND the loops more versatile and usable as opposed to the quirky colours that were in Loegria. I think what you have now is a much more versatile library from someone wanting to venture into orchestral without going epic and a wonderful additional tool kit to add to your existing symphonics, or chambers.
> 
> So for me a new Loegria for the '20s, a great alternative or next step from ONE, and Tundra part ii all wrapped into one or rather neo library!


I think its refreshing to see any business person be so transparent and honest about evaluating their own products, to such high standards.

And also for answering questions directly yourself at 4am!!

I think its a really cool sound, and i think that last paragraph sums it up perfectly. People should read that and decide if its for them, rather than wanting it to be something else.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> So how much overlap is there between Neo and Loegeria? I ask, because i became greatly interested in Loegeria, but that was after it being discontinued.
> 
> If Neo is 75% Loegeria, then i might re-consider buying it.


It's which 75%. I'd say the strings are very close. But they are inflected toward Tundra in having additional textural long articulations. If you are wondering about the woodwinds, they are nothing alike, because Loegria has "quirky colors," that is, recorders for its woodwinds. The brass in Neo is proximate to Loegria but not identical. Neo does not have the quirky color of the sackbutts. A great loss to us all, I'm sure. But Loegria did have the wonderful horneuph, which is similar to the brass in Neo, which is like a super horneuph with flugelhorns and bass trombone added to the 2 horns and 2 euphiums of Loegria's horneuph. Neo makes up for not having sackbutts by having more articulations for the brass (and also the woodwinds). And these additional articulations are for the most part very Tundra like. 

So the strings of Neo are very similar to Loegria but with additional articulations and a breakdown of A/B rather than high/low, the brass of Neo is similar to the horneuph of Loegria but a bit heavier and with additional articulations, and Loegria didn't really have orchestral woodwinds. The woodwinds of Neo strike me as somewhat wind-band like, which I like but ymmv. 

I think people will find Neo in general more useable than Loegria across the range of the library, and I suspect that's one reason SF replaced it. I suspect they didn't call it Two Redux less to avoid discounts to existing Loegria owners and more because conceptually Neo is quite distinct from Loegria even if it occupies a similar "slot" in the Albion series.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> It's which 75%. I'd say the strings are very close. But they are inflected toward Tundra in having additional textural long articulations. If you are wondering about the woodwinds, they are nothing alike, because Loegria has "quirky colors," that is, recorders for its woodwinds. The brass in Neo is proximate to Loegria but not identical. Neo does not have the quirky color of the sackbutts. A great loss to us all, I'm sure. But Loegria did have the wonderful horneuph, which is similar to the brass in Neo, which is like a super horneuph with flugelhorns and bass trombone added to the 2 horns and 2 euphiums of Loegria's horneuph. Neo makes up for not having sackbutts by having more articulations for the brass (and also the woodwinds). And these additional articulations are for the most part very Tundra like.
> 
> So the strings of Neo are very similar to Loegria but with additional articulations and a breakdown of A/B rather than high/low, the brass of Neo is similar to the horneuph of Loegria but a bit heavier and with additional articulations, and Loegria didn't really have orchestral woodwinds. The woodwinds of Neo strike me as somewhat wind-band like, which I like but ymmv.
> 
> I think people will find Neo in general more useable than Loegria across the range of the library, and I suspect that's one reason SF replaced it. I suspect they didn't call it Two Redux less to avoid discounts to existing Loegria owners and more because conceptually Neo is quite distinct from Loegria even if it occupies a similar "slot" in the Albion series.


Thank you for taking the time to explain that! 

I honestly think that's what i liked so much about Loegeria: it's quirkiness. It seemed like it was so unlike any other library out there.

Well, here's to hoping they'll re-release Loegeria some day.


----------



## jbuhler

You want the recorders and the sackbutts?

I mean, I'll be surprised if Loegria strings are not available again in the future as part of the Originals series or something else. It's kind of a no brainer unless SF sees it as too much competition for its other products, because they really are special. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the horneuph make a reappearance, because it is a lovely instrument (especially the legato) and from what I heard of the Neo brass I prefer the sound of the horneuph. But I never got any use out of the quirky colors of the recorders or sackbutts, and I don't see SF rereleasing either of them. But who knows... It only takes one person to make a hit out of their sound.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> You want the recorders and the sackbutts?
> 
> I mean, I'll be surprised if Loegria strings are not available again in the future as part of the Originals series or something else. It's kind of a no brainer unless SF sees it as too much competition for its other products, because they really are special. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the horneuph make a reappearance, because it is a lovely instrument (especially the legato) and from what I heard of the Neo brass I prefer the sound of the horneuph. But I never got any use out of the quirky colors of the recorders or sackbutts, and I don't see SF rereleasing either of them. But who knows... It only takes one person to make a hit out of their sound.


Yeah, call me weird.


----------



## christianhenson

jbuhler said:


> It's which 75%. I'd say the strings are very close. But they are inflected toward Tundra in having additional textural long articulations. If you are wondering about the woodwinds, they are nothing alike, because Loegria has "quirky colors," that is, recorders for its woodwinds. The brass in Neo is proximate to Loegria but not identical. Neo does not have the quirky color of the sackbutts. A great loss to us all, I'm sure. But Loegria did have the wonderful horneuph, which is similar to the brass in Neo, which is like a super horneuph with flugelhorns and bass trombone added to the 2 horns and 2 euphiums of Loegria's horneuph. Neo makes up for not having sackbutts by having more articulations for the brass (and also the woodwinds). And these additional articulations are for the most part very Tundra like.
> 
> So the strings of Neo are very similar to Loegria but with additional articulations and a breakdown of A/B rather than high/low, the brass of Neo is similar to the horneuph of Loegria but a bit heavier and with additional articulations, and Loegria didn't really have orchestral woodwinds. The woodwinds of Neo strike me as somewhat wind-band like, which I like but ymmv.
> 
> I think people will find Neo in general more useable than Loegria across the range of the library, and I suspect that's one reason SF replaced it. I suspect they didn't call it Two Redux less to avoid discounts to existing Loegria owners and more because conceptually Neo is quite distinct from Loegria even if it occupies a similar "slot" in the Albion series.



Thanks so much for this, much better explained than I could, but spot on....

I think something worth talking about is the Segla textures, Stephensons and Brunel loops which are also a fantastic set of creative tools that again sit away from what Loegria had to offer.


----------



## Ilko Birov

Sarah Mancuso said:


> This was just addressed by Paul on the previous page. It’s new recordings.



Still sounds pretty darn close.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

I'm finding the discount explanation quite confusing, as the calculation is not shown, and thus it is hard to know what the non-discount price is.









Spitfire Audio — Albion Neo


Albion NEO is a chamber-sized orchestral sample library with an intimate string section, adding incredible definition and expression to all your scores.



www.spitfireaudio.com





Supposedly the collection saves quite a bit more money as an upgrade option vs. direct buy of Albion NEO (looking at the FAQ's on the website). But for me, it only subtracts $1 or so from that price, and I own five or six Albion products (all five plus Legacy, but I'm not sure if all of them still count as Loegria is now canceled).

Rather than send a PM I thought I should pose this here, as others may be affected as well. I am logged in. But maybe I need to re-find how to set preferences to Sterling vs. USD for this to work properly. It shows me $243.80 for the upgrade to the Collection vs. about a dollar more if directly ordering NEO. I'm guessing the Collection helps towards future products as well though, in terms of discount calculations.

Even though I don't use these sorts of sounds much anymore, there's a certain price point beyond which I can no longer resist -- especially as I have now reviewed my post-NAMM planning budget and have already had the sheen come off of almost everything else I was considering for the next few months.


----------



## jbuhler

Mark Schmieder said:


> I'm finding the discount explanation quite confusing, as the calculation is not shown, and thus it is hard to know what the non-discount price is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio — Albion Neo
> 
> 
> Albion NEO is a chamber-sized orchestral sample library with an intimate string section, adding incredible definition and expression to all your scores.
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supposedly the collection saves quite a bit more money as an upgrade option vs. direct buy of Albion NEO (looking at the FAQ's on the website). But for me, it only subtracts $1 or so from that price, and I own five or six Albion products (all five plus Legacy, but I'm not sure if all of them still count as Loegria is now canceled).
> 
> Rather than send a PM I thought I should pose this here, as others may be affected as well. I am logged in. But maybe I need to re-find how to set preferences to Sterling vs. USD for this to work properly. It shows me $243.80 for the upgrade to the Collection vs. about a dollar more if directly ordering NEO. I'm guessing the Collection helps towards future products as well though, in terms of discount calculations.
> 
> Even though I don't use these sorts of sounds much anymore, there's a certain price point beyond which I can no longer resist -- especially as I have now reviewed my post-NAMM planning budget and have already had the sheen come off of almost everything else I was considering for the next few months.


The introductory price if you own no other Albion products is $349. So if you own all 6 Albions (inlcuding old Loegria and I legacy) it's 30% off from that: $244.30. This is what the SF site shows me as the price.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

OK, I simply got the impression that the extra discount is what is applied to the collection vs. the pre-sale of the individual library. Strange how there's a dollar or two difference when adding it one way vs. the other to the cart; usually I see a bigger difference than that, so I thought maybe something was wrong with my account due to some of the products going back before a few website revisions where maybe some stuff got reset.

It sounds like all is well with our legacy products being known to the site. Several vendors have reset everything and required re-registration, so it's a typical area to look at for issues.


----------



## Montisquirrel

Congrats to the new release. Sounds beautiful. Most interesting in my ears are the eDNA Textures.

As I have Loegria I was hoping to get the same price like the people who got Albion 1 -> Albion One for 99€. The discount I get as an Loegria owner is just 16 € off the intro price (331 instead of 349). I am not complaining. I hate it when people complain about sale prices but on the other hand complain about the cheap music licences. I was just hoping to get this cheap (too cheap ), because I don't really need it right now but would love to play with it.


----------



## TomislavEP

Montisquirrel said:


> As I have Loegria I was hoping to get the same price like the people who got Albion 1 -> Albion One for 99€. The discount I get as an Loegria owner is just 16 € off the intro price (331 instead of 349). I am not complaining.



I absolutely agree than there should be a permanent option for us owning the Legacy and Loegria libraries to upgrade to One and Neo at the discounted price that IMO shouldn't be higher than 99€ (including VAT).

I myself had purchased the Legacy in mid-2015, paying its full price in GBP which is _the_ most expensive foreign currency here in Croatia + whopping 25% VAT rate we have. I've dreamed about entering the world of Spitfire Audio libraries for several long years before I've finally taken the plunge, not at all expecting that the Legacy Albion will be put to pasture only a few months later.


----------



## will_m

Ilko Birov said:


> Still sounds pretty darn close.



Is that based on the 3 note example from DJ, compared across one articulation? Its the same dev recording the same instruments, in the same hall, playing the same articulation, I'd be more surprised if it sounded completely different. I don't think anyone's in a position to make a proper judgement until we get the library in our hands though.

I don't really see it as a negative though, Loegria sounded great and if NEO makes some improvements on that then it should be a great library, the non orchestral content sounds very different to me.


----------



## Lode_Runner

This does look nice and I very much share Spitfire's love of Olafur and Arvo so it is right up my alley. However having a lot of similar territory covered already with Loegria and Tundra and Evos, I don't really feel the discount (20% for me w/4 Albions) is enough to entice me at this stage. I was actually hoping there'd be an Albion TWO release with an upgrade path from Loegria similar to the upgrade from Legacy to ONE. Oh well I think this is going to be a 2021 purchase for me as it should be more affordable then... assuming things haven't turned all Mad Max by then.


----------



## Saxer

Is there any section size or room left where flautandos hasn't been sampled now?


----------



## alchemist

Saxer said:


> Is there any section size or room left where flautandos hasn't been sampled now?


Yes, 70 thousand players at Old Trafford stadium.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Saxer said:


> Is there any section size or room left where flautandos hasn't been sampled now?


is there an articulation where flutes can be sampled to play a "violando" im pretty sure if you get like 3 A list session flautists and send someone like zimmer in and request it - it could happen. 

just prep @Rctec with a few acting classes, a short script and backstory to his character... he had a deadline due by yesterday, and he has no memory of the last 4 days - after an eager fan at the supermarket huddled in for what seemed like a harmless selfie, but was mysteriously slipped a few stamps of acid - next thing he knows, he's in a van - a Russian diplomat's grandson ended up dead, and if he doesn't compose this piece to be played at the grandkid's funeral they'll have him shipped over the US where he'll be forced to run for governor against none other than Arnold Schwarzenegger. 

then he storms in, as prima donna as he can muster... shouting... "you're professionals aren't you? if not, why are we paying you?! this is not charity! You will NOT use my genius to put your grand kids through college... now play whats on the page or i'll by help me siri i'll have amazon ship me someone who will"


----------



## Fever Phoenix

I would like to know why the price in € is the same as in $.. This means that despite owning previous Albions I pay the same as regular US users with no previous Albions. 

As a European I am used to weird conversions, living in Switzerland it's even funnier since we use CHF and no €.

But it bothers me that "my discount" is not better that the regular US intro price..


----------



## Brasart

Fever Phoenix said:


> I would like to know why the price in € is the same as in $.. This means that despite owning previous Albions I pay the same as regular US users with no previous Albions.
> 
> As a European I am used to weird conversions, living in Switzerland it's even funnier since we use CHF and no €.
> 
> But it bothers me that "my discount" is not better that the regular US intro price..



I live in France, € prices are the same as $ on every shop from every company unfortunately, it's always been this way and we've been paying way more for the same product for ages :-(


----------



## davidson

Fever Phoenix said:


> I would like to know why the price in € is the same as in $.. This means that despite owning previous Albions I pay the same as regular US users with no previous Albions.
> 
> As a European I am used to weird conversions, living in Switzerland it's even funnier since we use CHF and no €.
> 
> But it bothers me that "my discount" is not better that the regular US intro price..



If you want to see eye watering price comparisons, try being a UK based customer!


----------



## josephspirits

thesteelydane said:


> Being a bit of a Loegria enthusiast (which I was lucky enough to discuss with Christian recently), I expect great things from this library, and will share my thoughts very soon.
> 
> For now though, let me say this: Very happy to see the inclusion of the harmonium patches! They sound great, but even better than that, is that harmoniums receiving the Spitfire stamp of approval makes them instantly cool again, and this in turn will drive up sales of my own harmonium - right? I mean, who wouldn’t want a sampled harmonium? They are the felt pianos of the organ world, after all!



Your Harmonium has been keeping me warm this winter. Beautiful instrument.


----------



## jononotbono

Sounds lovely. I didn't buy Albion 2 and I certainly love Tundra so this will be very nice to have. I guess me saying that makes me a "Spitfire Fanboy" or something.


----------



## Mornats

I don't think the US prices include tax (20% here in the UK).


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Brasart said:


> I live in France, € prices are the same as $ on every shop from every company unfortunately, it's always been this way and we've been paying way more for the same product for ages :-(



I know, I know.. I am used to it.. but in this case it really jumped at me, the fact that with loyalty discount I pay the same as a new customer without any previous SF libraries.. If I insert my Los Angeles Adress I get US prices? It just seems paradox to pay different prices from country to country for a non-physical product..


----------



## jbuhler

Mark Schmieder said:


> OK, I simply got the impression that the extra discount is what is applied to the collection vs. the pre-sale of the individual library. Strange how there's a dollar or two difference when adding it one way vs. the other to the cart; usually I see a bigger difference than that, so I thought maybe something was wrong with my account due to some of the products going back before a few website revisions where maybe some stuff got reset.
> 
> It sounds like all is well with our legacy products being known to the site. Several vendors have reset everything and required re-registration, so it's a typical area to look at for issues.


I suspect they did some reconfiguring of the complete your bundle pricing to take account of the intro pricing and some rounding in the complete your bundle resulted in a slightly different price. In any case I ended up getting Uist as well because the complete your bundle price was the best price on Uist that i recall even during wishlist sales because of the added 5% that I also got for Neo.


----------



## easyrider

I’m toying with the idea of buying the Albion Collection for £1045 that’s £209 each...hmmm not sure...


----------



## TomislavEP

I've just finished my personal analysis of Neo by going through all the available official videos. The thing that definitely impressed me the most is the Stephenson Steam Band section. Those intimate strings sections, together with a couple of off-beat articulations, provide excellent fodder for pads as is the case in Tundra which I deeply love. However, in comparison to Loegria, I feel that Neo didn't bring what I was potentially expecting in the brass and woodwinds department - some more detailed brushes rather than the almost equally esoteric ones - to complement those in One / Legacy. This would be likely my main motive to go for it as an owner of the Legacy, Loegria, and Tundra.

I'm a huge fan of Stephenson Steam Band and eDNA Earth, but I think I will pass Neo in the foreseeable future as its price isn't quite symbolic for us who've bought the Legacy and Loegria back in the day when Spitfire had charged for its products in GBP (+VAT).


----------



## jbuhler

Lode_Runner said:


> This does look nice and I very much share Spitfire's love of Olafur and Arvo so it is right up my alley. However having a lot of similar territory covered already with Loegria and Tundra and Evos, I don't really feel the discount (20% for me w/4 Albions) is enough to entice me at this stage. I was actually hoping there'd be an Albion TWO release with an upgrade path from Loegria similar to the upgrade from Legacy to ONE. Oh well I think this is going to be a 2021 purchase for me as it should be more affordable then... assuming things haven't turned all Mad Max by then.


It’s a percentage off the introductory price for Albion library owners not a percentage off the list price of $449. Wishlist price will be about $270, assuming SF keeps doing that. Not sure Neon will be included in the May sale.


----------



## Mike Fox

Iswhatitis said:


> A small format Tundraesque title seems like a reasonable next step for extending the Albion line.



As beautiful as NEO sounds, and as much as i love Tundra, I do have to wonder if Neo really was a reasonable next step in the Albion lineup.

Reason being, every Albion has been drastically different from one to the next. There was always that element of surprise and excitement of having something completely different and new, whereas Neo is not only a "replacement" for Loegeria, but is also very reminiscent of Tundra.

This redundancy seems to be causing mixed feelings among Spitfire fans. Either you're really into this type of sound, so of course you're going to scoop it up, or you're going to feel like this department is covered if you already own Loegeria, Tundra, and the EVOs.

It also seems like quite a few Loegeria owners are feeling a bit disgruntled knowing that the library they purchased became so looked down upon by Spitfire that it was actually pulled from the Albion lineup.

If Loegeria was so sub-par, i personally would liked to have seen an actual replacement for it with the legacy content included, just like they did with the first Albion. And then i woud liked to have seen current Loegeria customers recieve a generous upgrade discount for it.

Instead, it seems like Spitfire tried killing two birds with one stone here: replace Loegeria, and create a new Albion. I think this is going to work in and against their favor, especially with the mixed reception Neo has been getting so far.

So was Neo really a reasonable next step in the Albion series? I guess for some.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> As beautiful as NEO sounds, and as much as i love Tundra, I do have to wonder if Neo really was a reasonable next step in the Albion lineup.
> 
> Reason being, every Albion has been drastically different from one to the next. There was always that element of surprise and excitement of having something completely different and new, whereas Neo is not only a "replacement" for Loegeria, but is also very reminiscent of Tundra.
> 
> This redundancy seems to be causing mixed feelings among Spitfire fans. Either you're really into this type of sound, so of course you're going to scoop it up, or you're going to feel like this department is covered if you already own Loegeria, Tundra, and the EVOs.
> 
> It also seems like quite a few Loegeria owners are feeling a bit disgruntled knowing that the library they purchased became so looked down upon by Spitfire that it was actually pulled it from the Albion lineup.
> 
> Personally, i would liked to have seen an actual replacement for Loegeria with the legacy content included, just like they did with the first Albion. And then i woud liked to have seen current Loegeria customers recieve a generous upgrade discount for it.
> 
> So was Neo really a reasonable next step in the Albion series? I guess for some.


I suspect I will find myself turning to Neo where I would have made due with Tundra in the past, at least for the strings and winds. That said, I agree with those who wanted something a bit more detailed with the winds and brass to go along with the details of the strings. Why not A/B ensembles? Or the flugelhorns and saxes as separate patches that could be added or be used separately? The brass patch does seem potentially a bit heavy for this...

On the other side I remain anxious to try out the woodwind and brass basic shorts and longs as a soft complement to Albion One. Will it serve to extend the expressive range of Albion One gracefully into the softer dynamics even as it extends the expressive range of Tundra into a smaller more detailed ensemble? If it manages both of those tasks with aplomb then I’m not sure it needs to open a new vista to become both useful and beloved (and really if I’m honest the only one that’s really opened a new vista in the series is Tundra).


----------



## ysnyvz

alchemist said:


> Yes, 70 thousand players at Old Trafford stadium.


That would be just an "intimate" sound at the edge of silence.


----------



## jbuhler

Iswhatitis said:


> I think your comments are spot on and right about this. I love this type of sound so for me I don’t take their marketing or naming of this product too literally and am excited to get Neo. I never owned Loegeria, however if I did own it I would probably want an even steeper discount price since it’s playing the role of a fix for a flawed title that they seem at least for now to be abandoning in the island of misfit toys.
> 
> I don’t disagree with you at all, Mike. And though I do own all the Evos and Tundra, I personally like this genre, though I did just tell Christian that when releasing any of the Albions as well as BHCT, it would be ideal if a future update broke out the individual instruments from a group/section or orchestrated combination as OT does that for its users in comparable titles.


There was nothing “flawed” about the Loegria concept that anyone who bought it didn’t know going in. So at that level there was nothing to “fix.” It needed to be rethought and that’s what they did. I’m a long time owner of Loegria and sure I’d have loved to get it for less. But as a Loegria owner and user I find the content and concept of Neo quite different so I don’t begrudge the additional charge. It’s not a remake, aside from an aspect of the strings and resemblances if the brass to the horneuph.

Plus why should SF be forever committed to having a $99 cost for the upgrade? I don’t recall any implied promises at the time that this pricing would become policy for future updates (in a way that SF does have a commitment that you don’t pay for the samples twice). And the current pricing rewards owners of other Albion products too as a way of getting something like bundle pricing without having to complete the whole bundle. The intro pricing also extends for a time after the library has been released giving folks an opportunity to hear from early adopters. I much prefer this to a higher price immediately on release. 

I can understand some Loegria/Tundra owners not seeing as much here (though if you live a lot in this musical space I think you’ll find a lot of value). But for those who have Albion One, my sense is Neo will be a better complement than Tundra. We will see about that once the library is released.


----------



## rottoy

They probably shelved Loegria to draw attention away from the fact that Christian did one of the walkthroughs inebriated.


----------



## jbuhler

Iswhatitis said:


> On a different note, when you see how much content as far as the number of total samples and GB each library occupies, should developers try to give users at least 100,000 polished & edited samples and around 100GB of data per every $100 spent on that title? Assuming an Albion can be bought during sales for around 50% off, should there be much more content included given how much content is included in BBCSO, SStOpro and other titles?
> 
> This is something I think about before I make a purchase to as far as value.


It will be 40% off generally for wishlist sales. Slightly more effectively, if you complete a bundle during the wishlist. 

I find thinking about content by the GB or sample count to be a very commodified way of approaching it. As a rough guide perhaps but much of those GB is in extra mics which are useful to be sure but skew the metric. Then too there are libraries that sound great with one or two dynamic layers and/or a handful of RRs and others that have boatloads of both but just don’t cohere. 

And what do i do with evaluating something like the orchestra of Loegria where the strings are stunning, the horneuph lovely but recorders and sackbuts I never use? (And I knew that going in.) Was that a good value?


----------



## sostenuto

jbuhler said:


> It will be 40% off generally for wishlist sales. Slightly more effectively, if you complete a bundle during the wishlist.
> 
> I find thinking about content by the GB or sample count to be a very commodified way of approaching it. As a rough guide perhaps but much of those GB is in extra mics which are useful to be sure but skew the metric. Then too there are libraries that sound great with one or two dynamic layers and/or a handful of RRs and others that have boatloads of both but just don’t cohere.
> 
> And what do i do with evaluating something like the orchestra of Loegria where the strings are stunning, the horneuph lovely but recorders and sackbuts I never use? (And I knew that going in.) Was that a good value?




Delighted to have purchased Loegria at Intro ! Enjoying One and Tundra as well.
Perhaps we _gullible_ purchasers should receive a notable Upgrade price to NEO ???


----------



## Kadirally

I'm seeing it as a 'Make-your-own-OACE' tool with those textural divisi-strings. Combine any interesting articulation from section A and B as you see fit.

And definitely a good way to replace the rather quirky Loegria.

Looking forward to purchase a copy in the future.


----------



## Mike Fox

Kadirally said:


> I'm seeing it as a 'Make-your-own-OACE' tool with those textural divisi-strings. Combine any interesting articulation from section A and B as you see fit.


Cool perspective!


----------



## jbuhler

sostenuto said:


> Delighted to have purchased Loegria at Intro ! Enjoying One and Tundra as well.
> Perhaps we _gullible_ purchasers should receive a notable Upgrade price to NEO ???



With three Albions, you should get 15% more off from the introductory price. It's not like Loegria is at all a damaged product. The recorders and sackbutts play fine, though I'm not fond of the sound of the recorders. But I knew when I bought it that I wouldn't likely use them. Overall, the library is just conceptually curious. I would say conceptually incoherent. That's its flaw. And it's not like SF hid the fact that Loegria only had recorders for its woodwinds.

I think Neo has a pretty strong concept and its concept is quite different from Loegria. Also if you are already working a lot with Loegria and Tundra I think you will find that Neo will not make the Loegria strings redundant. (And vice versa the Neo strings bring things to the table that are not covered by Loegria or Tundra.) Now if you are only using Loegria and Tundra occassionally, then there may be less to be gained with Neo, at least with respect to the strings.

One thing Loegria had that Neo doesn't was some functional percussion. Perhaps these will make an appearance under the Originals label.


----------



## thesteelydane

jbuhler said:


> I find thinking about content by the GB or sample count to be a very commodified way of approaching it.


As a developer, I completely agree. I think this is very much the wrong way to look at sample library pricing. For my own products, I like to think you are also paying for the creativity and love and care I put into them. The harmonium is far fewer samples than Bunker Strings - like, a lot fewer, but took much longer to edit, because I had to remove pump and key noise from each sample individually - and developing the concept and writing the script took WAY longer than the strings as well. Based on the size of the library, it should be priced much lower, based on the amount of work that went into it, it should be priced much higher.


----------



## givemenoughrope

josephspirits said:


> Your Harmonium has been keeping me warm this winter. Beautiful instrument.


Get a room


----------



## Mornats

Fever Phoenix said:


> I know, I know.. I am used to it.. but in this case it really jumped at me, the fact that with loyalty discount I pay the same as a new customer without any previous SF libraries.. If I insert my Los Angeles Adress I get US prices? It just seems paradox to pay different prices from country to country for a non-physical product..



The difference is tax, US customers don't pay the 20% tax we pay in the UK.


----------



## givemenoughrope

I only tried the NEO string patches since that’s all I‘m really interested in. If you have SCS then you’re probably good except for a bending articulation and one or two other things. BUT, if you are really leaning on their sordino, flautando, etc arts for a lot of your work then having a subtle variation in ensemble patches is probably going to help you. My 1¢.


----------



## jbuhler

givemenoughrope said:


> I only tried the NEO string patches since that’s all I‘m really interested in. If you have SCS then you’re probably good except for a bending articulation and one or two other things. BUT, if you are really leaning on their sordino, flautando, etc arts for a lot of your work then having a subtle variation in ensemble patches is probably going to help you. My 1¢.


SCS Ensemble is good to bring into this conversation as is OACE. I'll say that the Loegria strings were always complementary to SCS, even though they duplicated many of the articulations. It seems like ensemble A and B in Neo are roughly the same size as SCS, so yes, lots of potential shadings of these articulations will be available and the potential to stack to produce intermediate to large sized ensembles. But also lots of potential to use the SCS sections to bring additional detail and brush strokes to Neo. Rather than being redundant, my sense is that the smaller ensembles of the Neo strings will fit more neatly into this complex than the Tundra strings currently do.


----------



## SupremeFist

I love a lot of SA stuff but from the videos Neo sounds like a fantastic string library with some very odd (and comparatively perfunctory) brass and woods thrown in.


----------



## jbuhler

SupremeFist said:


> I love a lot of SA stuff but from the videos Neo sounds like a fantastic string library with some very odd (and comparatively perfunctory) brass and woods thrown in.


No, you're thinking of Loegria. 

I have lots of questions about this: 

are the basic longs and shorts of Neo's winds and brass sufficient to serve as a soft complement to A1?
how well will the wind and brass ensembles, which are relatively heavy compared to the strings, sit with the strings and with each other?
does the close ribbon mic, which the other Albions don't have, give a different perspective on the winds and brass similar to what some of the mics in BHCT do?
do either the brass or the winds do a proper pp?

I really wish they had not chosen to place such prominence on the flutes in the winds ensemble and/or hope that this can be changed with a different selection of mics.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

In reviewing Loegria last night, I was reminded that it has Recorders and Sackbuts.


----------



## jbuhler

Mark Schmieder said:


> In reviewing Loegria last night, I was reminded that it has Recorders and Sackbuts.


"quirky colors."


----------



## cloudbuster

Still on the fence here. As much as I like the string articulations and some of the hybrid patches (eDNA) I don't see myself using the brass/woodwinds and the harmonium that much - if at all.


----------



## jbuhler

Iswhatitis said:


> Wish they’d rerelease Loegria or some possible path to it for Albion owners given all the positive comments about it.


I suspect SF will at some point rerelease the strings as an Originals: Lyrical Strings (or some such). Who knows about the other parts of it?


----------



## cloudbuster

jbuhler said:


> I suspect SF will at some point rerelease the strings as an Originals: Lyrical Strings (or some such). Who knows about the other parts of it?


----------



## jbuhler

cloudbuster said:


>



Loegria had great strings? Who's disagreeing. Not sure why you posted this.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Mornats said:


> The difference is tax, US customers don't pay the 20% tax we pay in the UK.


so why don't I pay in Swiss Francs? Since I live and pay taxes here? Why am I forced to pay in € and not $, Switzerland is not EU.. 

Also, I really don't want to open a drama spin-off here  just curious about the reasons here. I have sent an email to SF-Support. In the end if I want a product I will just buy it anyway, but I d'like to understand.


----------



## Mornats

Ah, I misunderstood, for some reason I thought you were in the US.


----------



## cloudbuster

jbuhler said:


> Loegria had great strings? Who's disagreeing. Not sure why you posted this.


Agreed on the great strings ... I must have misread the last part of your post ("other parts of it").


----------



## Mark Schmieder

Other parts include the Recorders and Sackbuts that I mentioned earlier, which at the time were the ONLY reason I bought it as there wasn't much on the market yet for those instruments.


----------



## Olivier1024

Fever Phoenix said:


> Switzerland is not EU..



Don't worry UK will be like you soon, I don't know what it will change for you, but if your happy.


----------



## schmeete

OK, I first read the whole thread before posting.

I have every single SA library ever made and I immediately felt, what was for me, a very real inspiration that was surely complimentary but clearly different and unique from all the other SA offerings (but I am totally in to all the Scandi, NEO-ENO stuff). Surely those that do not delve into these areas often may feel overlap. There are sooooo many new nuances in this Lib. You play it like a keyboard (like British Drama Tool Kit) you instantly get sounds across the entire keyboard that seamlessly work in all registers sounding like you have spent a life time collecting boutique sounds. I mean the woodwinds with saxes blew me away, as well as the mellow brass poly patches with their melodic capabilities. Its an enormous library for songwriting never mind sound for picture IMHO. And you literally hear the knowhow SA has collected over the years in the precision and detail of the sound without ever loosing the warm musical SA signature they have nurtured from the beginning.

For me NEO is to TUNDRA what Loegria is to ONE/Albion1. Makes complete sense, ZERO confusion. I know EXACTLY what I'm gonna use it for, QUICK inspirational sounds that will take me to a new place of joy that I have not yet been to as a composer. I personally would not spend "waste" my time seeing if I could get there combining all my other libs (surely possible) but in the meantime I have gotten to a place of sonic bliss I have never been to before and I'm instantly ready to move on even further beyond this point using all the other Libs in my arsenal. You guys get my point? Its a bit like Carpe Diem, (pardon the cliche)

I sound like an SA fanboy I know. I assure you I speak straight from the heart of my composer soul only. A life of some 50 odd years this time round, in total gratitude of the colours I have had the fortune to discover, and I would like to believe, a soul all the more enriched the next time it has a chance to come around.
It's pretty sappy I know, but heck it's my felt truth. Please tread gently....

My sincerest gratitude to what you guys have built up "this time around" Christian and Paul.

Peter


----------



## jbuhler

cloudbuster said:


> Agreed on the great strings ... I must have misread the last part of your post ("other parts of it").


I just meant who knows about whether any other parts of Loegria beyond the strings will be rereleased. I presume the strings will be released. I could see the percussion and horneuph being released as other Originals or in a different series... (edited for clarity)

ETA: maybe the recorders and sackbuts will be released as part of a series of "quirky curiosities."


----------



## jbuhler

Mark Schmieder said:


> Other parts include the Recorders and Sackbuts that I mentioned earlier, which at the time were the ONLY reason I bought it as there wasn't much on the market yet for those instruments.


I'm not partial to recorders in general but even given that I never thought these recorders sounded especially good. The sackbuts are what they are. They have a decent sound but I never found a place for them. I do think this aspect of Loegria tells us much about the era when the library was released.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Olivier1024 said:


> Don't worry UK will be like you soon, I don't know what it will change for you, but if your happy.



Uhm.. all good, no worries.

edit: I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

I've listened to all the demos twice now, as well as watching the videos, and all seem to my ears to be synth-laden, but maybe it's just the space and the processing, as the instrument list indicates symphonic chamber sections. I do not recall this being the case with the other Albion products, and when I load them in Kontakt I have no trouble getting natural orchestral sounds with them.

So I guess you can count me as one of those who is confused why this product would be branded an Albion product if it is more in line with the eDNA products and the like, all of which I avoid as I don't do that kind of work these days (and haven't for years now; I am converting almost all unfinished projects into 100% pure acoustic projects at this point).


----------



## jbuhler

Mark Schmieder said:


> I've listened to all the demos twice now, as well as watching the videos, and all seem to my ears to be synth-laden, but maybe it's just the space and the processing, as the instrument list indicates symphonic chamber sections. I do not recall this being the case with the other Albion products, and when I load them in Kontakt I have no trouble getting natural orchestral sounds with them.
> 
> So I guess you can count me as one of those who is confused why this product would be branded an Albion product if it is more in line with the eDNA products and the like, all of which I avoid as I don't do that kind of work these days (and haven't for years now; I am converting almost all unfinished projects into 100% pure acoustic projects at this point).


Because, like the other Albions, the library has orchestral sections: strings, woodwinds, and brass. Paul's walkthrough covers the orchestra side. You can decide if that's for you.

All the Albions have steam bands and other synth elements. These are perhaps given more emphasis in the demos for Neo.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

That's what I thought, but it wasn't stated explicitly, and there's so much hype about a "new direction" that it can be a bit overwhelming.


----------



## thereus

Wot, no Sackbuts?


----------



## Mike Fox

Iswhatitis said:


> I’ve listened to all the walkthroughs for Loegria and I still cannot figure out why it was discontinued. Loegria sounds cool. I hope they rerelease it. It would also be better if they released it with both a single recorder and that recorders ensemble patch as well as both a single sackbutt and the sackbutts ensemble patch. Might be nice also if they added more historical brass, woodwinds and percussion to a Loegria Two along with harp, lyre, and other guitar based instruments of that period like Medieval ERA II. That would be something I’d buy.


I do wonder what the Loegeria sales were like compared to the other Albions. Maybe that played some role in their decision to discontinue it.

I agree though, i think it sounds awesome.


----------



## VVEremita

I think the whole Albion series is more conclusive / coherent with Neo taking the place of Loegria. Having both available at the same time wouldn't seem like a good idea for that reason. Maybe they even decided to quit Loegria when they started doing Neo and there is nothing wrong about that. 

From my point of view the idea of "marketing" is not the critical thing. Spitfire develops software that is based on pronounced aesthetical concepts. Tundra is more than just a dynamic layer with good marketing. It is an instrument that is conceptualized like a piece of art in itself (and is marketed extremely well). Neo is no different. 

I draw from that inspiration. Putting that much effort into these concepts get's me (very) excited. Nothing wrong with feeling like a child in a toy store every now and then. For my taste and experience the products are well done on every aspect and deliver what they promise, so I don't feel fooled by the appearance. 

I'm more interested in the orchestral parts of the Albion series. If Segla allows for LFO controlled or CC-automated articulation-crossfading without a hybrid touch to create my own textures and Evos... I'm in.


----------



## MaxOctane

thereus said:


> Wot, no Sackbuts?



Yeah, they really should have included Sackbuts and an out-of-tune recorder, to keep the Loegria vibe alive.

I gotta say, though, the Horn+Euphonium patch in Loegria is still one of my all-time faves.


----------



## Mark Schmieder

I was hesitant to say how disappointed I was by the recorders and sackbuts until finding that this seemed to be a common reaction. Fortunately VSL provided some a few years later.

That Horn + Euphonium patch in Loegria was gorgeous though. Still is, in fact. And luckily the Spitfire installers doesn't delete stuff that is no longer sold on their site, like some companies' product managers do.


----------



## TomislavEP

Mark Schmieder said:


> And luckily the Spitfire installers doesn't delete stuff that is no longer sold on their site, like some companies' product managers do.



I sure hope it will never come to that, though I've already experienced plenty of unpleasant surprises regarding Spitfire's attitude toward the Albion series - the departure from the more expensive pound sterling currency in which I've bought my very first SF library (Albion I), the quite unexpected demise (for me, that is) of the legacy Albion and Loegria, the upgrade price to Albion One that would cost me more than 200€ after paying the original price of Albion I + VAT, witnessing the launch of the new Epic series which offer the essence of Albion I at a fraction of the original price, to not giving almost any upgrade discount to the owners of Albion II. I also suspect that Loegria will end up too as a part of the bargain package in the future.

All my ranting aside, I still feel that the Legacy and Loegria in addition to Tundra fit my personal needs and taste better than One and Neo likely would and I certainly don't agree that these newer Albion installments are vastly superior to their predecessors. They do, however, have their merits, but I personally find it quite difficult to find a truly compelling reason to upgrade, especially under the present conditions.


----------



## KEM

I’m gonna listen to the walkthroughs a few more times and then do some comparisons, but my first impression is that this really isn’t anything different than Tundra, yes it sounds good and I’d use the sounds if I had them, but I already own Tundra and I don’t feel like this is that much different.


----------



## Kony

Mark Schmieder said:


> I was hesitant to say how disappointed I was by the recorders and sackbuts until finding that this seemed to be a common reaction


It's a shame the recorders and sackbuts were never updated. Loegria is a great library IMO as far as strings and euphonium are concerned - also very much like the Easter Island hits.


----------



## avocado89

I keep coming back to this library, listening to the demos, watching the walkthroughs - because I think there is something interesting about NEO, especially the segla textures. I wish I could buy each part separately. I just feel like the orchestral part of this library doesn't bring anything new to the table.


----------



## ism

avocado89 said:


> I keep coming back to this library, listening to the demos, watching the walkthroughs - because I think there is something interesting about NEO, especially the segla textures. I wish I could buy each part separately. I just feel like the orchestral part of this library doesn't bring anything new to the table.



I'll admit I'm a bit puzzled by all the "nothing new here" reactions in general.

But on a very literal the orchestral part brings the Segla textures to the table. 

The pity is that I'm not especially interested in the hybrid/synth stuff. But I can really hear how they've upped the game on the edna part of this Albion. 

In general, I think its the spatial embodiment of orchestral source material that gives eDNA patchers their quality in the first place. While the Albion V eDNA patches are lovely and ambient, with Neo it's precisely the definition and that you get from the smaller section sizes that give them the Segla patches their gorgeous qualities.


----------



## Mike Fox

avocado89 said:


> I keep coming back to this library, listening to the demos, watching the walkthroughs - because I think there is something interesting about NEO, especially the segla textures. I wish I could buy each part separately. I just feel like the orchestral part of this library doesn't bring anything new to the table.



This pretty much sums up exactly how i feel. I've listened to the orchestral segments repeatedly and kept listening for something that grabbed my attention, but have felt the same way every time: underwhelmed. I was really looking forward to this one too. 

The other parts of the library sound pretty cool though!


----------



## jbuhler

I, on the contrary, keep coming back to it and hearing things I am very inspired by even in just the orchestral portions. I would have proceeded somewhat differently with the brass and woodwinds but these seem useful and I understand what Spitfire is trying to do with Neo in a way I never could with Loegria. So many want to look regretfully at the loss of the less than optimal recorders and sackbuts, but they never got used, they didn’t go together with the strings or the horneuph or without a lot of supplementation even with each other. It didn’t have to be that way of course and if SF had taken another direction Loegria might have made sense in a world where SF pursued a different vision of sampling. But today, not really. And if Neo doesn’t seem a library that you will find useful, then really it doesn’t make sense for you to buy it.


----------



## jbuhler

So I was perusing old records for some reason, and found that Albion One cost £149 for existing owners of Albion 1 when it was released in October 2015. With the exchange rate at the time that translated to about $229 according to the SF email ad from the time. I own quite a lot of Albion libraries, but my cost for Neo was within spitting distance of that. So the $99 everyone has been mentioning, it wasn't for the Albion One upgrade from A1.


----------



## Symfoniq

I own both Loegria and Tundra, and think the Neo strings sound great and would complement the former libraries nicely. But based on the demos, I’m not sure I’d ever use the Neo woodwinds or brass. Tough decision.


----------



## KEM

Symfoniq said:


> I own both Loegria and Tundra, and think the Neo strings sound great and would complement the former libraries nicely. But based on the demos, I’m not sure I’d ever use the Neo woodwinds or brass. Tough decision.



As far as the strings go this is exactly how I feel, yes they would definitely compliment Tundra or Loegria or OACE or any of those softer and more “wavy” string libraries, but if you already have any of these I don’t feel like there’s any point in buying this unless you REALLY want to layer them together.


----------



## jbuhler

KEM said:


> As far as the strings go this is exactly how I feel, yes they would definitely compliment Tundra or Loegria or OACE or any of those softer and more “wavy” string libraries, but if you already have any of these I don’t feel like there’s any point in buying this unless you REALLY want to layer them together.


For me, with respect to the strings, it's less about layers and more about options. In essence Neo will increase the number of related articulations I will have available (some will almost be like added round robins, others will add more differentiation) but they all add to what's available and at the lower dynamics such differences can really matter. And the fact that these libraries were all recorded in the same space, with many of the same players, means that they should fit together reasonably well. Of course, all those additional articulations also increase the complexity, which does kind of undermine one of the main reasons for using an ensemble library, which is that they allow one to work quickly, paint with broad strokes, and with a reduced palette. We'll see. 

In any case, with the soft brass and woodwind legatos included, the orchestral side of Neo should also serve as a soft extension of A1 in a way that Loegria never did (because it didn't have the proper instrumentation in the woodwinds) and Tundra also could not (because the brass and woodwinds of Tundra lack legato).


----------



## Mornats

jbuhler said:


> So I was perusing old records for some reason, and found that Albion One cost £149 for existing owners of Albion 1 when it was released in October 2015. With the exchange rate at the time that translated to about $229 according to the SF email ad from the time. I own quite a lot of Albion libraries, but my cost for Neo was within spitting distance of that. So the $99 everyone has been mentioning, it wasn't for the Albion One upgrade from A1.



When they did the revamp of ONE they offered another upgrade but at 99 this time.

Edit: the 10th anniversary one is the revamp I'm referring to.


----------



## jbuhler

Mornats said:


> When they did the revamp of ONE they offered another upgrade but at 99 this time.
> 
> Edit: the 10th anniversary one is the revamp I'm referring to.


I wouldn't remember that since I already owned One, and the tenth anniversary edition was a free update to owners of One in December 2017. The change from I to One was not initially priced at $99 for legacy owners as many were complaining about earlier this week. The tenth anniversary edition was a bit more than two years after One was initially released.


----------



## BezO

avocado89 said:


> I keep coming back to this library, listening to the demos, watching the walkthroughs - because I think there is something interesting about NEO, especially the segla textures. *I wish I could buy each part separately. I just feel like the orchestral part of this library doesn't bring anything new to the table.*


Same. I don't own any Albions, so I guess it would be new to me, but I don't have much need for the combo orchestral instruments. But I like everything else. And the orchestral combos do have legato in the main patches, which is always a plus for me being a keyswitcher.

I'll watch the vids again tomorrow while their servers are getting hammered, maybe catch some user demos, and make my final decision.


----------



## ptram

jbuhler said:


> I suspect SF will at some point rerelease the strings as an Originals: Lyrical Strings (or some such).


I would love to get them. They would be a great complement to A1.

Paolo


----------



## ptram

Fever Phoenix said:


> so why don't I pay in Swiss Francs? Since I live and pay taxes here? Why am I forced to pay in € and not $, Switzerland is not EU..


But you have agreements to be part of the European Economic Area, so in international trade you are subject to most of the same rules.

Paolo


----------



## Fever Phoenix

ptram said:


> But you have agreements to be part of the European Economic Area, so in international trade you are subject to most of the same rules.
> 
> Paolo



Sure. Still does not clarify the different prices in €, $ and £.

I don't care to pay a bit more here or there, I just want to understand why 🤷‍♂️😉


----------



## ptram

Fever Phoenix said:


> Sure. Still does not clarify the different prices in €, $ and £.


The difference between £/€ and $ is usually due to the fact that the first two are inclusive of tax, the third one isn't. This is a cultural difference between Europeans, who wants to see the final price, and Americans, who have to calculate the final price themselves.

If I’m not wrong, differences between tax rates in the various states are much higher in the USA than in Europe, so the small differences between European rates can be accepted by the manufacturers when showing the same price for the whole Euro area.

Paolo


----------



## alchemist

Ordered, can't wait to take it for a spin


----------



## Mike Fox

Even though I'm not really feeling it, i haven't fully given up on Neo yet. There have been times where i didn't truly appreciate a library until i played it for myself. 

I'll wait to see what the consensus is during these next few days.


----------



## lp59burst

ptram said:


> The difference between £/€ and $ is usually due to the fact that the first two are inclusive of tax, the third one isn't. This is a cultural difference between Europeans, who wants to see the final price, and Americans, who have to calculate the final price themselves.
> 
> If I’m not wrong, differences between tax rates in the various states are much higher in the USA than in Europe, so the small differences between European rates can be accepted by the manufacturers when showing the same price for the whole Euro area.
> 
> Paolo


Absolutely right. Some States have no sales tax, some have sales tax and a local surtax.

The range iirc is from 0% - ~13.5% depending on the State and the item(s) you're buying.


----------



## NYC Composer

jononotbono said:


> Sounds lovely. I didn't buy Albion 2 and I certainly love Tundra so this will be very nice to have. I guess me saying that makes me a "Spitfire Fanboy" or something.


Nah. What makes you a fanboy is uttering the deathless phrase “take my wallet!!”, especially in reference to a pre-release product with no demos and no walkthroughs.


----------



## easyrider

Mike Fox said:


> Even though I'm not really feeling it, i haven't fully given up on Neo yet.




Addiction and FOMO is a powerful thing.......


----------



## Mike Fox

easyrider said:


> Addiction and FOMO is a powerful thing.......



Definitely some FOMO going on here! It took me forever to buy Tundra, and it ended up becoming one of my favorite libraries. So...


----------



## cloudbuster

I've listened to some of the walkthroughs for a second time and I'm out. Again, as much as I like the string articulations and some of the hybrid patches in Neo I can't see myself using either the brass or the woodwinds in any of my tracks and I rather get Tundra during the next sale. Regarding those hybrid loops I prefer designing my own vibes over any prefab patches anyways - YMMV.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

ptram said:


> The difference between £/€ and $ is usually due to the fact that the first two are inclusive of tax, the third one isn't. This is a cultural difference between Europeans, who wants to see the final price, and Americans, who have to calculate the final price themselves.
> 
> If I’m not wrong, differences between tax rates in the various states are much higher in the USA than in Europe, so the small differences between European rates can be accepted by the manufacturers when showing the same price for the whole Euro area.
> 
> Paolo


Ah, I did not know that this applys to digital and international purchases as well.. Obviously has to.. thanks for taking the time, Paolo.


----------



## Ahlbom88

Downloading now! Excited!


----------



## Fry777

ptram said:


> The difference between £/€ and $ is usually due to the fact that the first two are inclusive of tax, the third one isn't. This is a cultural difference between Europeans, who wants to see the final price, and Americans, who have to calculate the final price themselves.
> 
> If I’m not wrong, differences between tax rates in the various states are much higher in the USA than in Europe, so the small differences between European rates can be accepted by the manufacturers when showing the same price for the whole Euro area.
> 
> Paolo



But the tax rate is 7.7% in Switzerland compared to say 20% in France, that would be quite a difference too...

On another topic, being unfamiliar with Albion II, I was wondering about the use of divisi in an ensemble lib. I obviously recognise the usefullness of it in "bread and butter" string libs. Anybody would have examples of this using Loegria ?


----------



## ism

NYC Composer said:


> Nah. What makes you a fanboy is uttering the deathless phrase “take my wallet!!”, especially in reference to a pre-release product with no demos and no walkthroughs.



Ah no. Sure if Tundra doesn't merit a bit of customer faith in a "follow up to Tundra" then what does?


----------



## idematoa

Ahlbom88 said:


> Downloading now! Excited!



More than 40 minutes of waiting


----------



## jbuhler

Fry777 said:


> But the tax rate is 7.7% in Switzerland compared to say 20% in France, that would be quite a difference too...
> 
> On another topic, being unfamiliar with Albion II, I was wondering about the use of divisi in an ensemble lib. I obviously recognise the usefullness of it in "bread and butter" string libs. Anybody would have examples of this using Loegria ?


In Loegria it was called 1/2 and that’s probably a better way to think of its general use: the ensemble and a subset of that ensemble. Though you could then thicken the chords with more voices somewhat compared to what you might do with the full ensemble to produce something like divisi on the quick. Neo’s approach seems to be different and more about allowing you to layer articulations but with different players and from slightly different places within the hall. That can be used to render a kind of divisi but won’t be the kind of divisi we usually think of when we use the term. It’s more like two chamber ensembles that have been recorded in the same space with the idea that they will be used together for more subtle layering. We will see if this is indeed useful. It will be different from Loegria but also from stacking articulations in SCS.


----------



## ism

jbuhler said:


> In Loegria it was called 1/2 and that’s probably a better way to think of its general use: the ensemble and a subset of that ensemble. Though you could then thicken the chords with more voices somewhat compared to what you might do with the full ensemble to produce something like divisi on the quick. Neo’s approach seems to be different and more about allowing you to layer articulations but with different players and from slightly different places within the hall. That can be used to render a kind of divisi but won’t be the kind of divisi we usually think of when we use the term. It’s more like two chamber ensembles that have been recorded in the same space with the idea that they will be used together for more subtle layering. We will see if this is indeed useful. It will be different from Loegria but also from stacking articulations in SCS.



I'm hugely curious about exactly what possibilities this will open up myself. The demos, gorgeous though they are, tend to focus within a relatively small set of more or less ambient possibility. 

Which is one (hugely) obvious sweet spot of the space Neo promises to open up. But not at all the one I find the most interesting.


----------



## idematoa

I am pleasantly surprised by the quality of the audio capture achieved, it is really my first impression ...


----------



## Beermaster

Strings sound great but annoyingly most of the woodwind seem to be unusable to me due to the sax or clarinet having saliva bubbling behind the reed ( something the most players suck or blow away as soon as it happens ) - this results in the sound of bacon frying on almost every articulation on the woodwind.... cute for realism if it were a random, once in a blue moon layer the could be controlled, but when it's on every patch, it cuts through like the crackles on an old vinyl recording. Hope that can be amended some how ?


----------



## Mike Fox

Beermaster said:


> Strings sound great but annoyingly most of the woodwind seem to be unusable to me due to the sax or clarinet having saliva bubbling behind the reed ( something the most players suck or blow away as soon as it happens ) - this results in the sound of bacon frying on almost every articulation on the woodwind.... cute for realism if it were a random, once in a blue moon layer the could be controlled, but when it's on every patch, it cuts through like the crackles on an old vinyl recording. Hope that can be amended some how ?


The modwheel adjusts the amount of saliva/bubbling in the samples. Crank it for maximum bacon frying!

Joking aside, that's kinda gross. I haven't noticed that sound, but I'll have to go back and listen for it.


----------



## Fry777

@Mike Fox You bought it in the end then


----------



## Mike Fox

Fry777 said:


> @Mike Fox You bought it in the end then


Nah. I was just talking about going back and listening to the walkthrough videos.

Still on the fence with Neo, but more leaning towards not getting it.


----------



## idematoa

A word of advice: don't go to "Segla Textures - Electronic", you risk making music


----------



## KallumS

How do we know that it's the sax player and not Mr Henson cooking a fry up?


----------



## ism

I think what I really want to hear is a demo from Paul - something where he really brings his sense of orchestration and counterpoint to bear. 

Not that i don’t love the other demos, just that there are unexplored worlds here yet.


----------



## JT

With all of this talk about NEO, it got me to open Loegria again. I haven't used it for a while. I did some layering with Tundra, it's gorgeous.


----------



## ism

JT said:


> With all of this talk about NEO, it got me to open Loegria again. I haven't used it for a while. I did some layering with Tundra, it's gorgeous.


Would love to hear your layering experiments.


----------



## Beermaster

Here's just the woodwind sun patch with bacon !


----------



## KallumS

Beermaster said:


> Here's just the woodwind sun patch with bacon !



"I said reverb baked in, not bacon!"


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> The modwheel adjusts the amount of saliva/bubbling in the samples. Crank it for maximum bacon frying!
> 
> Joking aside, that's kinda gross. I haven't noticed that sound, but I'll have to go back and listen for it.


Finally got it downloaded and played the longs patch briefly before I had to head out. In a very very cursory play I’m so far not finding the bacon frying option.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> Finally got it downloaded and played the longs patch briefly before I had to head out. In a very very cursory play I’m so far not finding the bacon frying option.


You have to upgrade to the Pro version for that option.


----------



## Mike Fox

Beermaster said:


> Here's just the woodwind sun patch with bacon !


Wood smoked!


----------



## BezO

jbuhler said:


> Finally got it downloaded and played the longs patch briefly before I had to head out. In a very very cursory play I’m so far not finding the bacon frying option.


Good to hear no matter how brief the experience. I'm hoping this is not a thing. I'm really leaning towards getting my 1st Albion.


----------



## sostenuto

Preferably Applewood !

_Pianist here_ ___ now with most unpleasant view of sax / reed instruments and grubby contaminants thereabout ...... perhaps bacon bits ?


----------



## Mike Fox

"The stuff of nightmares"

Dammit, Christian! Now I'm leaning more towards the middle of buying this thing, lol!

Seriously though, those Segla Textures are something else. Well done!


----------



## barteredbride

I'm not buying NEO then. I'm vegan.


----------



## Mike Fox

Iswhatitis said:


> I will say this about Neo, it does not have nearly as many as articulations as does Tundra for Woodwinds and Brass. This is disappointing since why not have 18 articulation choices per the one brass and woodwind patch like Tundra.
> 
> If one owns Tundra I don’t feel Neo is a must buy at all. I don’t own Loegria, but Neo feels like SCS meets Tundra but recorded in a smaller sound stage ie SStO. I think Neo was recorded in Air Studios, but if that’s true it doesn’t sound like it. Sounds like it was recorded in the same sound stage as SStO, though if you add the Tree Ambient and Outrigger mic mixes it will feel more like an Air Studios sound. I like Neo. I like Tundra too. Wish the individual instruments that made up each section were separated out and I wish the woodwinds and brass had 18 articulations instead of just 9. There are no High and Lo patches either in Neo.
> 
> In general, I’d pay a little more for a Pro version of each Albion title if they gave you the individual instruments that make up each section. I hope they do this one day though for the price they already charge it would have been nice if the individual instruments were included like OT MA series does.


Thanks for your take!

"If one owns Tundra I don’t feel Neo is a must buy at all."

That's basically been my core perspective towards Neo ever since the walkthroughs were released, and is why I'm wishing Spitfire didn't go this route for another Albion, even though i do think the sound design stuff looks interesting! Then again, I already have Omnisphere and a ton of other stuff to cover that department.

Looks like Neo has officially dropped off my radar then.


----------



## Mike Fox

Iswhatitis said:


> If one owns Tundra I don’t feel Neo is a must buy at all.



Also, Neo confused me from the start, and looking back at the marketing slogan, 

"THE ORCHESTRA FOR THE NEW DECADE"

confuses me even more, since Neo seems to be a type of library that Spitfire has been doing for several years already. 

I'm not trying to bash Spitfire or anything. This is just the final perspective that their marketing, and approach to Neo has left me with. I even tried to re-analyze my perspective, because I really wanted to like Neo enough to buy it. 

Anyway, I'll shut up now.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> Also, Neo confused me from the start, and looking back at the marketing slogan,
> 
> "THE ORCHESTRA FOR THE NEW DECADE"
> 
> confuses me even more, since Neo seems to be a type of library that Spitfire has been doing for several years already.
> 
> I'm not trying to bash Spitfire or anything. This is just the final perspective that their marketing, and approach to Neo has left me with. I even tried to re-analyze my perspective, because I really wanted to like Neo enough to buy it.
> 
> Anyway, I'll shut up now.


As I see it, Neo in conception is Albion Two (a softer complement to Albion One) but it is also Tundra II (a smaller complement to Tundra). "THE ORCHESTRA FOR THE NEW DECADE" is marketing hype certainly, but also perhaps a bet that smaller forces are going to be more in demand for media scoring in the years to come. If the teens were all about the epic ensemble (and Albion One is motivated by that idea even if it lacks a crushing fortissimo), the twenties are about whatever it is that Neo will provide... well, in any case, whatever it is, Neo is unmoored from the epic even more so than Tundra. Which for me makes the mountain imagery a bit hard to fathom, except maybe as a sign of that the conception of Neo is also rarefied.


----------



## bfreepro

It's really not Tundra at all. I honestly don't get that comparison, besides the icy/mountain imagery... this has detailed, tiny sections, not the standard orchestral instruments or section sizes, and they never say the dynamics are only focused on super quiet (unless I'm missing something...). It's actually more like British Drama Toolkit or a Chamber-Evo than Tundra. I mean it has saxes, euphoniums and flugelhorns, it's really weird and unique and while some of the "feathery soft" articulations might be similar to what they've done in the past, the sections and instrument choices are very much different, I really don't think these comparisons are fair.

PS When I first saw the announcement I thought it was more of the same too, but it's the most unique library they've done besides Bernard Hermann Toolkit imo.


----------



## South Thames

> Also, Neo confused me from the start, and looking back at the marketing slogan,
> 
> "THE ORCHESTRA FOR THE NEW DECADE"
> 
> confuses me even more, since Neo seems to be a type of library that Spitfire has been doing for several years already.



This is the problem when every major Spitfire project needs to be sold as something ground-breaking and paradigm shifting. The marketing ends up having to conjure the most incoherent and illogical slogans to try and sell it.



> It's really not Tundra at all. I honestly don't get that comparison, besides the icy/mountain imagery... this has detailed, tiny sections, not the standard orchestral instruments or section sizes, and they never say the dynamics are only focused on super quiet (unless I'm missing something...). It's actually more like British Drama Toolkit or a Chamber-Evo than Tundr



Interesting comments on the brass. To me, the chorale-like, mellow, brass-bandy quality is a real turn off and would seriously limit the usability of that section of the library.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

bfreepro said:


> It's really not Tundra at all. I honestly don't get that comparison, besides the icy/mountain imagery... this has detailed, tiny sections, not the standard orchestral instruments or section sizes, and they never say the dynamics are only focused on super quiet (unless I'm missing something...). It's actually more like British Drama Toolkit or a Chamber-Evo than Tundra. I mean it has saxes, euphoniums and flugelhorns, it's really weird and unique and while some of the "feathery soft" articulations might be similar to what they've done in the past, the sections and instrument choices are very much different, I really don't think these comparisons are fair.
> 
> PS When I first saw the announcement I thought it was more of the same too, but it's the most unique library they've done besides Bernard Hermann Toolkit imo.




ok, you have my attention, as I am deeply in love with the BHT!


----------



## bfreepro

Fever Phoenix said:


> ok, you have my attention, as I am deeply in love with the BHT!
> [/QUOTE


 It's not like the BHT but, just in terms of doing something different, I think it makes a similar statement. Saxes, a freakin harmonium, a mixture of synth-wave and chamber orchestra... it's weird and wonderful lol.


----------



## Mike Fox

bfreepro said:


> It's really not Tundra at all. I honestly don't get that comparison, besides the icy/mountain imagery... this has detailed, tiny sections, not the standard orchestral instruments or section sizes, and they never say the dynamics are only focused on super quiet (unless I'm missing something...). It's actually more like British Drama Toolkit or a Chamber-Evo than Tundra. I mean it has saxes, euphoniums and flugelhorns, it's really weird and unique and while some of the "feathery soft" articulations might be similar to what they've done in the past, the sections and instrument choices are very much different, I really don't think these comparisons are fair.
> 
> PS When I first saw the announcement I thought it was more of the same too, but it's the most unique library they've done besides Bernard Hermann Toolkit imo.




Well, it's not just people here who are comparing Neo to Tundra, it's Spitfire themselves. 

Taken from the product page...

"Echoing the icy sound of Albion Tundra, but with a much smaller ensemble"


----------



## bfreepro

Mike Fox said:


> Well, it's not just people here who are comparing Neo to Tundra, it's Spitfire themselves.
> 
> Taken from the product page...
> 
> "Echoing the icy sound of Albion Tundra, but with a much smaller ensemble"


well they are full of shite . I had a feeling I was missing something somewhere. I guess moreso I'm addressing those saying they don't need it because it's just the same as Tundra and what not.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

bfreepro said:


> It's not like the BHT but, just in terms of doing something different, I think it makes a similar statement. Saxes, a freakin harmonium, a mixture of synth-wave and chamber orchestra... it's weird and wonderful lol.


yes yes.. I get that  but from an inspirational aspect ..


----------



## Mike Fox

bfreepro said:


> well they are full of shite . I had a feeling I was missing something somewhere. I guess moreso I'm addressing those saying they don't need it because it's just the same as Tundra and what not.


Regardless of what Neo is and what Neo isn't, thanks for the video!


----------



## Brasart

I think there's some misunderstanding about Spitfire's marketing target audience for Albion NEO; my guess is that "THE ORCHESTRA FOR THE NEW DECADE" and similar taglines are aimed at every other composer than what you can find on niche forums like this one. 

Because Albion ONE is their best-selling product, I think they want to get to people who only got one or two libraries, and probably got Albion ONE (or any other 'all-in-one' toolbox like Symphobia, Ark...) years ago.
So to them - and I think composers with only one or two big libraries are the majority of buyers out there - they're saying that, indeed, a new decade is calling to a new 'all-in-one' way of scoring.

Percussion Swarm wasn't labelled as "The New Revolution of Percussions For A New Decade" because they know that they're not selling this product to the same kind of composers, just a reminder that marketing isn't always directed at ourselves!


----------



## bfreepro

Mike Fox said:


> Regardless of what Neo is and what Neo isn't, thanks for the video!


For sure! I honestly didn't realize Spitfire said that themselves but it's very typical of them isn't it...I know as soon as I saw the mountain in the teaser image I was like "jesus christ, another icy mountaintop 'scandi' library" haha, but I got more interested when I saw the instruments and heard some walkthrus. Definitely very Spitfire-y and I wouldn't have bought it if I had a dedicated Chamber strings library or the chamber evos.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Spent a good while digging into the Brunel Loops and have to say this is the first time I've ever been totally inspired by its contents in an Albion.

Made a quick and messy little composition in an hour using assorted Brunel stems, Wind shorts, String A pulses, and some other stuff from the EDNA instruments in there (Main string chords are BBCSO cs longs, but everything else is NEO)


----------



## Mike Fox

Iswhatitis said:


> IMHO:
> 
> Their over the top marketing does not bother me at all as they simply get excited about each release and are passionate about their libraries, which on the whole are excellent and some of the best out there currently for VI. Though some of their marketing hyperbole at times seems to be a more American way to shout from the mountain tops about a new product than one might have assumed from a more restrained British society, Neo is a good product despite the generalized bluster.
> 
> That being said, I can understand why it would bother some people as it doesn’t necessarily always accurately describe the product. But, if the purpose of the trailer is to grab your attention and get you to explore the walkthroughs and other more detailed views of that specific title, then who can blame them from hooking you in to want to learn more. Christian did state in a post inside this post topic exactly what he thought of Neo, which I do concur is pretty spot on to what Neo is.
> 
> The Neo trailer has gorgeous visuals and Christian’s narrative is certainly interesting. If you slow down and really pay attention to the walkthrough it is pretty simple to see what one is getting with Neo. I bought it. I like it. I compared it with Tundra today side by side too. Neo fills a nice space and I will definitely use Neo to compose, sketch and create finished tracks.
> 
> Neo seems to play well blending with both SStO and SSO nicely as well as with SCS from what I can tell so far as I own all of them. If someone did not love Albion Tundra then I would not recommend buying Neo. But if you love Tundra and/or the Evolutions or if you adore SStO and/or SCS, then I think Neo is a nice fit to add. I’m happy I got Neo. Each composer has to determine if that particular VI library is a good fit for the style of music they like to write. I feel it’s another nice tool in my composer’s toolbox 🧰 when I’m looking for a specific color to paint with.


Yeeeahhh....

While i can't fault a developer for getting excited about their latest release, i do think there's a significant difference between excited marketing and over the top marketing: genuine excitement vs how much extra effort they're putting in to get their meathooks in your wallet. 

Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.


----------



## bfreepro

Paul Cardon said:


> Spent a good while digging into the Brunel Loops and have to say this is the first time I've ever been totally inspired by its contents in an Albion.
> 
> Made a quick and messy little composition in an hour using assorted Brunel stems, Wind shorts, String A pulses, and some other stuff from the EDNA instruments in there (Main string chords are BBCSO cs longs, but everything else is NEO)



Fantastic!


----------



## BezO

Played with it. Like it, a lot. The orchestral patches sound like they will go well with Studio Pro, and the strings can substitute to a small degree for SCS until I grab those (50% off once more please).

I have 1 issues though. I do hear the bacon frying in the legato of the winds. More spit than sizzle. Quite disappointed in that actually.


----------



## jbuhler

Bacon. Bacon. Get you bacon! So, yes, the lowest fourth of the woodwind legato (G1-C2) has real issues. Also the lowest octave of the longs (C1-C2). Not a great crossover between C4-E4 in the longs either (C3=middle C). On the bright side I generally like the sound of the winds better than I thought I would.


----------



## Mike Fox

Sizzling bacon is the sound of the new decade!


----------



## alchemist

Just finished downloading. Only had a short amount of time to play some patches but what a beautiful detailed "icy" sound. Which if I may offer some perspective on the sax, maybe it's not the frying of bacon, but rather the crackling of ice. Did I say crackling? I meant cracking..


----------



## 667

BezO said:


> Played with it. Like it, a lot. The orchestral patches sound like they will go well with Studio Pro, and the strings can substitute to a small degree for SCS until I grab those (50% off once more please).
> 
> I have 1 issues though. I do hear the bacon frying in the legato of the winds. More spit than sizzle. Quite disappointed in that actually.


Can you post an example? This is a make-or-break for me. Is it only the winds legato, only certain dynamic layer, etc.?


----------



## fiatlux

alchemist said:


> Just finished downloading. Only had a short amount of time to play some patches but what a beautiful detailed "icy" sound. Which if I may offer some perspective on the sax, maybe it's not the frying of bacon, but rather the crackling of ice. Did I say crackling? I meant cracking..


Just picked up NEO, and also really disappointed with the woodwinds.
The longs are completely unusable around the octave above middle C.
It is such a glaring mistake that I find it hard to understand, how that was ever allowed to pass QC.
Enjoying the rest of the library though, especially Strings B.
Also have TUNDRA and OACE, but feel like the strings actually add something different than those libraries. I get it is going after the same vibe, but the definition and smaller ensemble size seems to capture that vibe much better than TUNDRA.


----------



## BezO

667 said:


> Can you post an example? This is a make-or-break for me. Is it only the winds legato, only certain dynamic layer, etc.?


I've shut things down. If I power back up before someone posts an example, I'll post something.

I only remember it in the winds legato, mostly in the low/mid frequencies. And I was playing mostly higher dynamics (very soft, mellow samples) so I'm not sure about the lower dynamics.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Paul Cardon said:


> Spent a good while digging into the Brunel Loops and have to say this is the first time I've ever been totally inspired by its contents in an Albion.
> 
> Made a quick and messy little composition in an hour using assorted Brunel stems, Wind shorts, String A pulses, and some other stuff from the EDNA instruments in there (Main string chords are BBCSO cs longs, but everything else is NEO)




Stunning work! And those BBCSO strings fit in beautifully!


----------



## Paul Cardon

Here's your bacon, y'all




I'm not torn by it, I'm always a huge fan of a bit of looseness and funkiness in my libraries, but I'm sure some of you will disagree completely.


----------



## jbuhler

The first file is a little thing I did playing around with the weird stuff in the longs in the octave above middle C. The second file is of the lowest octave of the longs.


----------



## Mike Fox

Paul Cardon said:


> Here's your bacon, y'all
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not torn by it, I'm always a huge fan of a bit of looseness and funkiness in my libraries, but I'm sure some of you will disagree completely.



Smells good!


----------



## InLight-Tone

I can't help but feel this is all just mental masturbation with little music being created which in the end is the point of pursuing this path, to create useful product and get paid. How people can spend day after day discussing the insignificant minutae of a sample library instead of creating tracks to secure an income from Sound...


----------



## jbuhler

Aside from the obvious issues, I find myself generally liking the wind sound, which is distinct from Tundra and quite different from One, at least in the ranges I've checked. And I like that the ensemble is continuous and not broken into high and low, which makes it more useful to me for sketching. 

The bacon also tastes a little better in the stereo mixes.


----------



## Mike Fox

InLight-Tone said:


> I can't help but feel this is all just mental masturbation



I knew there was a reason for my loss of vision. My mother warned me!


----------



## SupremeFist

Paul Cardon said:


> Here's your bacon, y'all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not torn by it, I'm always a huge fan of a bit of looseness and funkiness in my libraries, but I'm sure some of you will disagree completely.



Wow, that is completely unacceptable. (I'm a clarinet and sax player and hearing this made me involuntarily suck my teeth.)


----------



## zeng

According to me Albion NEO is some kind of a summary of Spitfire Audio.
Patches and sounds are similar to British Drama, Orbit, Earth (Edna) Evo, SCS, Tundra, SCS...
They tried to combine their fav articulations in this product I guess


----------



## Apina

jbuhler said:


> And I like that the ensemble is continuous and not broken into high and low, which makes it more useful to me for sketching.



This! I wish that all the Albions had a patch with High & Low combined.


----------



## easyrider

InLight-Tone said:


> I can't help but feel this is all just mental masturbation with little music being created which in the end is the point of pursuing this path, to create useful product and get paid. How people can spend day after day discussing the insignificant minutae of a sample library instead of creating tracks to secure an income from Sound...



You think these lot are bad...just watch a guitar player dial in his sound for 5 hours then miss the bus home


----------



## barteredbride

Are there any other issues that peple can spot?

(apart from the crackling noises in the winds?)

Most libraries have a few quirks of course, as its such a huge undertaking of work.


----------



## rotho

Paul Cardon said:


> Here's your bacon, y'all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not torn by it, I'm always a huge fan of a bit of looseness and funkiness in my libraries, but I'm sure some of you will disagree completely.





I dig the bacon

But to be honest I like instruments played "wrong" in general.


----------



## idematoa

Spitfire Audio - Albion Neo - Brunel Loops [3 Presets]


----------



## ism

idematoa said:


> Spitfire Audio - Albion Neo - Brunel Loops [3 Presets]


Gorgeous. Even in this very ambient genre, I can really feel the difference the detailed textures of the strings can make.


----------



## redlester

Iswhatitis said:


> I will say this about Neo, it does not have nearly as many as articulations as does Tundra for Woodwinds and Brass. This is disappointing since why not have 18 articulation choices per the one brass and woodwind patch like Tundra.
> 
> If one owns Tundra I don’t feel Neo is a must buy at all. I don’t own Loegria, but Neo feels like SCS meets Tundra but recorded in a smaller sound stage ie SStO. I think Neo was recorded in Air Studios, but if that’s true it doesn’t sound like it. Sounds like it was recorded in the same sound stage as SStO, though if you add the Tree Ambient and Outrigger mic mixes it will feel more like an Air Studios sound. I like Neo. I like Tundra too. Wish the individual instruments that made up each section were separated out and I wish the woodwinds and brass had 18 articulations instead of just 9. There are no High and Lo patches either in Neo.
> 
> In general, I’d pay a little more for a Pro version of each Albion title if they gave you the individual instruments that make up each section. I hope they do this one day though for the price they already charge it would have been nice if the individual instruments were included like OT MA series does.



I could be mistaken but I thought the whole point of the orchestral sections of the Albions was that they represented ensemble patches for people who want to get something down very quickly for media composition. They aren't meant for creating crafted realistic sounding orchestral compositions. That's what their other libraries with the individual instruments and multiple articulations are for.


----------



## idematoa

_"Direction fader function, enabling you to reverse each loop"_ is a very interesting function. 
The loops can be used in insertion with the other parts played. 
Layers with OACE and/or BDT should look good. 
I already have some ideas ...


----------



## styledelk

Looking forward to getting home.


----------



## Oxytoxine

Iswhatitis said:


> Sounds a little bit like you are talking about OT MA 1 & 2 not Albion. Yes, Albion has very broad all in one ensemble patches that are great for sketching, but i would not say that Albion is JUST a sketching tool. All the Albions sounds great on their own and I use them for finished tracks too. The problem with Albions is that when compared to OT MA 1 & 2 it would be great if there were additional ensemble patches of the ensemble sections inside the all in one Brass and Woodwind patches specifically. You have multiple Flutes making up the all in one Woodwind patch in Neo along with other WW VI so why not have a Flutes ensemble patch, a Saxophones ensemble patch and a Clarinets ensemble patch along with the one combo Woodwind patch? I could say the same thing about the one Neo Brass patch, which would be to add a Horns ensemble patch, a Flugelhorns ensemble patch, a Euphoniums ensemble patch and a Bass Trombone patch. This way one can sketch quickly with the singular Brass and Woodwinds all in one patch but still have a little bit of individuation separated from the sections inside these all in one patches. That is exactly what OT MA 1 & 2 does and it would be great to have both the all in one patches and ensemble patches of each instrument type too. I cannot imagine you would not appreciate this as well. I own SStO, SSO, SCS, BHCT, LCO, BDT and the Albion Collection.
> 
> I do not find that if they did this for the Albion Collection it would negate my desire to own and use these other Spitfire Orchestra libraries at all but simply give one a little bit more individuation when creating your musical palette and sound as I love to blend and use the Albion Collection with these other Spitfire libraries. Imagine if Spitfire only gave you one full all in one orchestra patch and you did not even get the Strings, Brass and Woodwinds patches, wouldn't you want the Strings, Brass and Woodwinds separated out from one full orchestra patch? I think it would not be difficult for Spitfire to add these individual sections to each Albion title either for free or a small Pro upgrade, which I would love to have. By the way, Neo strings sound so lovely that I will definitely use them a lot and would never assume they are just for sketching ideas out. Also, I love the short staccatissimo Brass articulation and wish they had included a short staccato Brass articulation as well and more flutter, rips, bends, and other FX as they did with Tundra. They could add more articulations to both the Woodwind patch and Brass patch and I would really be grateful.



Fantastic post, also summarizes some of my own open questions regarding Neo and the Albions in general very well.

May I jump in with a short question? You wrote that you own SStO, SSO, SCS, BHCT, LCO, BDT and the Albion Collection and that still the Albion strings bring something new and special on the table for you? So you would not say that the Neo strings are redundant?

I ask because from Spitfire I "only" own BBCSO, SCS, OAE, solo strings, studio strings, BHCT, BDT, but not SSO, and ponder the question whether a) to go for the full SSO (and thought that the Albions would then be more or less redundant for me) or b) add some of the Albions for "special flavours".

If you find the time, could you maybe summarize briefly what a) the Albions in general and b) the Neo strings in specific give you that is not already covered by the rest of your arsenal?

I am strangely attracted by their sound in the Neo and also Tundra walkthroughs, but can not exactly describe why, because my rational mind tells me that I already could achieve everything with the other libraries. So very interested about the thinking process and long term experiences of much more experienced users


----------



## Mike Fox

redlester said:


> I could be mistaken but I thought the whole point of the orchestral sections of the Albions was that they represented ensemble patches for people who want to get something down very quickly for media composition. They aren't meant for creating crafted realistic sounding orchestral compositions. That's what their other libraries with the individual instruments and multiple articulations are for.


Nah. Each Albion is really it's own thing, and specializes in something vastly different from one Albion to the next (well, that's debatable now with the release of Neo). For example, Iceni focuses on the bombastic low end of the orchestra, while Uist focuses on aleatoric fx. They all sound realistic though.


----------



## idematoa

Awake And Emerging — Homay Schmitz


----------



## jbuhler

Oxytoxine said:


> May I jump in with a short question? You wrote that you own SStO, SSO, SCS, BHCT, LCO, BDT and the Albion Collection and that still the Albion strings bring something new and special on the table for you? So you would not say that the Neo strings are redundant?


One person's redundancy is another person's beautiful subtle difference. I have all those collections except BHCT, as well as Loegria, OACE, Symphonic Evolutions, and probably some others as well. Neo is distinct from all of them, and Neo's approach to offer essentially a double ensemble of strings works very nicely indeed. Do I need Neo when I have all the others? Well, other of the libraries can stand in for what Neo does, but Neo will get me there better and faster. And the combinatorial possibilities of Neo's double ensemble are large—similar to the stacking variety you get from SCS, where you can add varieties of articulations without ending up with a large mass of sound. 



Mike Fox said:


> No. Each Albion is really it's own thing (well, that's debatable now with Neo), and specializes in something vastly different from one Albion to the next. For example, Iceni focuses on the bombastic low end of the orchestra, while Uist focuses on aleatoric fx. They all sound realistic though.



I think Neo is its own thing too. It's unfortunate that both the winds and brass have severe issues with the execution. The winds might be similar to Tundra's, but aside from the bacon and dodgy bits of intonation, they are more capable of being used lyrically and for basic accompaniment than is the case of Tundra's winds, which are calibrated for textural effects. The brass arrangements often seem unbalanced (the flugelhorn sticks out here, the horn, there, etc.) which makes the legato hard to use. And the attacks on the longs are not well coordinated especially when played at low dynamics. 



Iswhatitis said:


> why not have a Flutes ensemble patch, a Saxophones ensemble patch and a Clarinets ensemble patch along with the one combo Woodwind patch? I could say the same thing about the one Neo Brass patch, which would be to add a Horns ensemble patch, a Flugelhorns ensemble patch, a Euphoniums ensemble patch and a Bass Trombone patch.



Yes, this would have been most welcome for this library. Or extending the conception of the strings and at least give use ensemble A and ensemble B for winds and brass. As it is the ensembles for winds and often feel too heavy for what I'm inspired to achieve with the strings. It's also a little ironic that it feels like Neo has many of the same strengths (strings, strings, strings!) and liabilities (including dodgy intonation in the winds) as Loegria that it sought to replace. 

I mentioned above that I do very much like that all of the Neo patches are continuous rather than being divided into high and low (the legacy Albion I also offered these combination patches that are the basis for the Live patches in the Originals series). It's very nice to see that make a return.


----------



## angeruroth

Listening to the demos and videos I think this lib would play really well with Tundra and BDT, and I like the sound and that kind of thing, so I may get it once I finish learning the libs I already have, but I'm not an epic guy (musically speaking) and most times Aone feels too _intense_ to me, so I understand why others think it's not for them or too similar to [insert here your lib]. For me it sounds really different from Tundra and BDT.

About the bacon thing, maybe they could release an update with pre EQed sounds to remove it? I'm not entirely sure it would be a problem unless exposed, tho being able to change that using the dynamics CC would be really cool to give more character just when you want it.

Anyway, watching @bfreepro video I instantly thought about stones, castles, knights and, wait for it... the Mass Effect games! So, it looks like a nice and useful lib to me.


----------



## jbuhler

angeruroth said:


> About the bacon thing, maybe they could release an update with pre EQed sounds to remove it? I'm not entirely sure it would be a problem unless exposed, tho being able to change that using the dynamics CC would be really cool to give more character just when you want it.


It's less prominent at lower settings on the modwheel, so there's a sense in which you can dial it in and out (Modwheel for bacon fry), and if you are scoring chords, it's often masked. And I find I'm quite inspired by the sound of these winds even if I find them scored a little heavy to be used in conjunction with the more subtle potential of the strings. On the other hand, in terms of sound I'm quite happy with their distinction from the One winds on the one hand and their proximity to but difference from the Tundra winds on the other. (I find the Neo winds are more playable as a lyrical instrument than is Tundra.)


----------



## bfreepro

InLight-Tone said:


> I can't help but feel this is all just mental masturbation with little music being created which in the end is the point of pursuing this path, to create useful product and get paid. How people can spend day after day discussing the insignificant minutae of a sample library instead of creating tracks to secure an income from Sound...


Yeah, how incredibly bizarre for people to discuss virtual instruments in a forum literally made for discussing virtual instruments!


----------



## Erick - BVA

Aside from the Bacon, I've been thoroughly inspired by everything I'm hearing. I really want the library. But it's a question of want vs. need for me.
I already own all of the previous Albions (6). So I could get it relatively cheap. But then... I'm thinking of a hundred other things even cheaper that may not be as redundant as this. If I had the money, no question.
But I need to weight wants vs needs these days. Gotta stop the GAS.
Is it worth it even if I have all of the Albions?


----------



## InLight-Tone

bfreepro said:


> Yeah, how incredibly bizarre for people to discuss virtual instruments in a forum literally made for discussing virtual instruments!


Of course, I'm talking about people who seem to do nothing but or discuss computers all day after day. Whatever works for ya?!?


----------



## Erick - BVA

Iswhatitis said:


> Do you have Loegria?


Yes


----------



## Erick - BVA

InLight-Tone said:


> Of course, I'm talking about people who seem to do nothing but or discuss computers all day after day. Whatever works for ya?!?


I think we'd be assuming that they're not doing anything else, and just discussing virtual instruments all day. Many people in this field work from home so can easily access the forums while they work. Getting immediate feedback about things sometimes helps with workflow.


----------



## sostenuto

Many have labored long and hard for decades _ to facilitate enjoyable, stimulating retirement. Some also invested decades refining instrumental, composing, orchestrating, skills.
Many useful Forum Threads are quite diverse and require monitoring to deal with individual needs or interests. NEO seems one of these topics.

Empathize with those capable professionals who are more focused and using Forum(s) in connection with full employment.


----------



## bigisland

barteredbride said:


> Are there any other issues that peple can spot?
> 
> (apart from the crackling noises in the winds?)
> 
> Most libraries have a few quirks of course, as its such a huge undertaking of work.


Great sounding library but to my ears both the ambient and outriggers have a slight phase issue. Combining them with the tree mics gets a quite blurry stereo image...


----------



## jbuhler

Sibelius19 said:


> Aside from the Bacon, I've been thoroughly inspired by everything I'm hearing. I really want the library. But it's a question of want vs. need for me.
> I already own all of the previous Albions (6). So I could get it relatively cheap. But then... I'm thinking of a hundred other things even cheaper that may not be as redundant as this. If I had the money, no question.
> But I need to weight wants vs needs these days. Gotta stop the GAS.
> Is it worth it even if I have all of the Albions?


I mean, only you can answer this but for me Neo was worth the price for the strings alone given the discount I got for owning the other Albions. I find the winds inspiring even given the very real problems they have and I’m a bit surprised by this as I had a rather indifferent feeling about them from the walkthrough. But they are generally very playable and though Tundra covers some of the same ground I found Tundra took much more work to get a similar effect to what you get easily in Neo. Of course the opposite is also true: the Tundra winds can do things that would be harder to achieve with Neo. The brass is so far disappointing but I was happily surprised by the harmonium, which though very rudimentary offers a most appealing sound, and I generally dislike the sound of the harmonium.


----------



## Mike Fox

Sibelius19 said:


> I think we'd be assuming that they're not doing anything else, and just discussing virtual instruments all day. Many people in this field work from home so can easily access the forums while they work. Getting immediate feedback about things sometimes helps with workflow.


This. 

No lie. I often have VIC running in the background (or on my phone). It's a nice way to take breaks from composing. Plus, I'm a sample library nerd, so I find it enetertaining to discuss this stuff with my fellow nerds.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Sibelius19 said:


> I think we'd be assuming that they're not doing anything else, and just discussing virtual instruments all day. Many people in this field work from home so can easily access the forums while they work. Getting immediate feedback about things sometimes helps with workflow.


I understand that, I'm one of them, though if I want to get things done, I cannot hang out on this forum personally. Guess I'm grumpy today...


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> This.
> 
> No lie. I often have VIC running in the background (or on my phone). It's a nice way to take breaks from composing. Plus, I'm a sample library nerd, so I find it enetertaining to discuss this stuff with my fellow nerds.


Yes. Also walkthroughs only take you so far and there is a whole practical side to VIs that is not well documented and you learn from these sorts of discussions.


----------



## SupremeFist

Iswhatitis said:


> The problem with Albions is that when compared to OT MA 1 & 2 it would be great if there were additional ensemble patches of the ensemble sections inside the all in one Brass and Woodwind patches specifically. You have multiple Flutes making up the all in one Woodwind patch in Neo along with other WW VI so why not have a Flutes ensemble patch, a Saxophones ensemble patch and a Clarinets ensemble patch along with the one combo Woodwind patch?



I would definitely pay for this as an expansion to One. (Also I would definitely buy the Neo strings if they were available separately.)


----------



## easyrider

jbuhler said:


> I mean, only you can answer this but for me Neo was worth the price for the strings alone given the discount I got for owning the other Albions.



how much has it cost you in the end to own them all?


----------



## jbuhler

easyrider said:


> how much has it cost you in the end to own them all?


I think around $240. I'm not sure because I actually used this opportunity to complete the bundle and I bought Uist as well.


----------



## easyrider

jbuhler said:


> I think around $240. I'm not sure because I actually used this opportunity to complete the bundle and I bought Uist as well.



sorry I think you misunderstood...I meant for all the Albions how much has it cost for all of them ?


----------



## InLight-Tone

Iswhatitis said:


> Life can be extremely difficult and challenging. Hang in there.


I'm quite fond of LIFE (Sun/Light, Air, Water & Earth)...


----------



## barteredbride

Can @Spitfire Team perhaps let us know if the winds crackling issue is something they could fix, or if they were aware of? 

I´m thinking of buying the library, but would like an official answer about this first!


----------



## ism

redlester said:


> I could be mistaken but I thought the whole point of the orchestral sections of the Albions was that they represented ensemble patches for people who want to get something down very quickly for media composition. They aren't meant for creating crafted realistic sounding orchestral compositions. That's what their other libraries with the individual instruments and multiple articulations are for.




This sketching character is arguably built into the Albion One concept ("Start scoring Films now") - fast first pass, broad brush strokes. And the nature of AO is that if you have SSO you can very often get significantly better results by replacing your AO sketches with fully orchestrated SSO lines. That is, the musical space covered by SSO is, with probably a few exceptions, capably of going anywhere AO, and in far greater detail.

But this is less true of Albion Two.

And not at all true of Albion V which genuinely has articulations that you just can't find in SSO or indeed anywhere else.

When it comes to Neo, the section sizes in Neo are very close to SCS. So it's an interesting question to what extent that Neo is to SCS as Albion One is SSS.

I suspect that for basic flautando, Neo and SCS are very directly contiguous. And this adjacency is, in my estimation, best though of not as a duplication, but as a valuable point of continuity that, in the first instance, gives the ability to sketch quickly in Neo, and then go into detail with SCS.

I see similar, and even more valuable continuities with Tundra. Especially if you crank up the ambient mics, mix the strings A & B and orchestrate your chords thickly. In fact I think everything I've heard so really hits the ambient connections with the Tundra ethos pretty hard - which is beautiful, and serves to hilight the continuity of Neo and Tundra as ambient & hybrid libraries well. Though at the cost of ignoring the other vast musical spaces Neo opens up.

There's also a certain continuity with other libraries like the Solo Strings. Emblematically, the "Whisper Trems" Vl articulation blends magnificently with Tundra, OACE, and well, just about anything else. But there are a lot of other solo string articulations here that can be layered amazingly well (See Oliver's video on the Spitfire Harp for an example of how he uses solo textures to great effect with SCS).

But most especially, I feel a real continuity with OACE. Most obviously in the feathered orchestration of the strings make this especially seamless.

But conversely, in working with Tundra and OACE, I've long felt various shades of angst. I can't count the moment I've been working with OACE, and just wishing I had something that would push the space of OACE a bit further.

This angst manifests with working from Tundra, for instance, when I want to keep the feel of the "Tundra-ness" but add finer brush strokes. SCS would be able to provide a certain type of brush stroke I suspect, but in my attempts to mix Tundra and SStS (which I actually have), I find that while the results are interesting in its their own right, it comes at the cost of breaking the Tundra-ness of the overall ethos.

And similarly with OACE (which I use as individual articulations and seldom as an underscore-esuqe evo), I want to keep the texturality of the OACE-ness, while moving subtly into a still very textural space, but again with finer brush stokes, yet without breaking the OACE-ness.

And in using OACE articulations as articulations (rather that underscore-esque evos) less is often more. That is, OACE textures can be even more effective when used sparingly. So the textural, but not crazy evo-grade texturality of Neo addresses this particular angst beautifully.


A lot of the discussion here is formed around "this is no different from Tundra" or "This is absolutely nothing like Tundra", which is interesting. And the DJ video where he implicitly argues that there's nothing new in Neo that he doesn't have in Loegria is another example of this "de-differenceing" mode of criticism.


But the real value here (to echo @jbuhler 's point above) is in both the continuity with spaces currently accessible (via Tundra OACE, SCS, TM, SSoS etc) and the new musical space that it opens up .

That is, it is both the capacity for sameness together and difference that makes Neo so interesting in its conception.

And here is where the whole becomes more than the sum of its parts.


When I listen to the orchestral music of real musicians, particularly after spending time working with samples, I'm always acutely aware of just how much expressive space is still completely beyond us.

Tundra was a revelation that woke me from (VSL-SE induced) dogmatic slumber to realize just how immensely limited we were in the space that previous generations of sample libraries allowed us to, and how much remains to be explored.

And the further opening of these spaces since Tundra is a joy to behold.

(Notwithstanding the separate and acute angst of Neo not being conceivably in my sample library budget any time soon)


----------



## Mike Fox

InLight-Tone said:


> Guess I'm grumpy today...



Yeah, it's kinda funny. Coming to a forum and then complaining about people posting in the forum is the equivalent of someone going to the beach and then complaining about the sand.


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> This.
> 
> No lie. I often have VIC running in the background (or on my phone). It's a nice way to take breaks from composing. Plus, I'm a sample library nerd, so I find it enetertaining to discuss this stuff with my fellow nerds.



I think there's research to show that for a certain type of work (generally on the more creative/realational side of things) working in a cafe, so long as its not too loud can be good for productivity. 

And I think it may come down to the element of social energy that comes being out instead of sitting alone at your desk.


I'm speculating here, but in that you generally can't compose in a cafe, occasional focus check-ins might provide a certain amount of social energy, which, in moderation, might be beneficial to actually getting work done in isolation. 

Except of course when it doesn't.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Mike Fox said:


> Yeah, it's kinda funny. Coming to a forum and then complaining about people posting in the forum is the equivalent of someone going to the beach and then complaining about the sand.


If we're comping to the forum to obtain and contribute helpful information sure. If the motive is self-promotion, not so much...


----------



## Oxytoxine

Iswhatitis said:


> Sorry, I also forgot to include that I own all the Evolutions, OAE, Solo Strings, ASS, Sacconi, and BBCSO too. I would not say that Neo is a must buy if someone owns Tundra, OAE, BBCSO or SCS. It really has to do with what one owns already or how much a composer loves the smaller and softer sound of Neo. I don't think given what you own you have to buy Neo, but I own much more than you and really like Neo, it's like having more shades of colors to choose from. Neo is not necessary but certainly is nice to have. The Neo strings nor any of the sounds in Neo are not redundant to anything you or I own. But some of the Neo strings are similar to some of the shades of tonal color in SCS, SStO (or in your case Studio Strings), Tundra and OAE.
> 
> Each Albion is not like the OT Berlin Inspire Orchestra, which is directly derived from the Berlin series of VI. Someone earlier believes that the Albion Collection is just a sketching tool. I find the Albion Collection to be very useful for sketching ideas and just as useful to use on its own or blending with other libraries to create a new palette of tonal colors for a finished track. Also, Albions all have very highly well recorded orchestra sections and are wonderful to compose with during all stages of music production. You should really check out the walkthroughs on Spitfire.com to see what each Albion is about, but I love using the Albions alone or with my other Spitfire libraries and do not feel like I have any redundancy as each Albion was recorded from a unique orchestra and blends well with other Air Studios libraries. Neo though can work well in both a small intimate space and Air Studios sound stage. If you don't own Studio Strings Pro definitely upgrade to the SStO Pro version as the strings alone are fantastic and give you 3 more string libraries in one by owning Studio Strings Pro. I would upgrade your Studio Strings to Pro during BF or Xmas sales before getting SSO or SSS, though I love SSO in general. The Albions definitely have some special flavors particularly III Iceni, IV Uist, V Tundra, and VI Neo. If you don't own any of the Albions wait till Xmas sale when you may be able to get them for 50% off if you buy the Albions Collection. I also own all the OT BOI and MA series and I do not find redundancy between MA and the Albions. If you can ever afford it get all the MA and Albions libraries. One of the ways the Evolutions excel including Tundra and Neo is to bring in ways to allow a musical track to breathe with subtlety, grace, and intimacy in ways the full orchestra libraries don't do as easily.



Wow, thanks a lot for this comprehensive answer! Sheds light on various facets / aspects that I was not considering, will reflect on it 

Glad you mentioned the Berlin inspires, which I also have and now realize probably were one source of confusion for me, because I (wrongly) was under the impression that the Albions would be in a similar relationship to SSO as the BOIs to the "big" Berlin Series and thus did not really investigate the other Albions.

Also nice to learn that Neo can fit nicely with both the rooms of Air Lyndhurst and the Air Studio series, I did not yet consider to expand SStO. The woodwinds and brass choices in Neo seem really odd to me (not only due to the obvious "bacon" issues mentioned above thread, but also due to chosen limited dynamic range and the fact that the ensembles are not available separately, what would catapult the utility of them into a new sphere), but all in all Neo seems to be versatile then.


----------



## ism

Iswhatitis said:


> Don’t forget LCO and LCO Textures are very cool tools too in this vein.



This adds a very interesting dimension to it. 

I have LCO, and find it has a real contiguity to Studio Strings and BDT. But I find that there's a real gap between BDT and Tundra. 


That said, I can mix BDT with OACE, if used carefully (BDT has, surprisingly become my go-to for detail wind textures along with Orchestral Swarm). And I can mix OACE with Tundra. But BDT/LCO with Tundra ... not so much. 


Not disagreeing with you. Just that this is a space I simply haven't worked our myself.

Although i do have a theory a out the ‘axis of musicality’ at play here.


----------



## ism

Iswhatitis said:


> I love SStO Professional and strongly recommend anyone who owns StO to upgrade to the Pro version the next big sales cycle. The additional various string sections make SStS Pro incredibly full of value and diversity in string section sizes as though one has 4 different string libraries in one VI.


So I have Studio strings (core), and am really starting to love them love, and understand their musicality beyond simply being ‘SCS lite’ (which is why i initially bought them). 

But it feels a completely different space to me than Tundra/Neo/OACE (although they do mix with OACE wonderfully, with a bit of messing around and lots and lots of reverb).

Would be very interested in you insights about how to bring these two worlds together.


----------



## Mike Fox

InLight-Tone said:


> If we're comping to the forum to obtain and contribute helpful information sure.



Uh...which is what we were doing???


----------



## jbuhler

easyrider said:


> sorry I think you misunderstood...I meant for all the Albions how much has it cost for all of them ?


I really have no idea, since I acquired them over the years on sales and with EDU discount. I also paid in pounds for some of them, so I'd have to go find the credit card records for those. My guess is that I paid a bit less than the current bundle price of $1219 for the five Albions currently available. (The current bundle price, btw, is quite good, and on par I think with what you'd get during a wishlist.)


----------



## Mike Fox

Iswhatitis said:


> If anyone thinks that putting their music onto this Forum is gonna get them a gig I’d be stunned if that happened. I don’t see anyone self-promoting on this forum. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen unintentionally or intentionally but doesn’t seem to be what this forum is about unlike LinkedIn where one gets bombarded with endless self-promotion.


Exactly. Even then, there is an area of the forum where people can promote themselves, and that's where i see most of the self promoting taking place.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

barteredbride said:


> Can @Spitfire Team perhaps let us know if the winds crackling issue is something they could fix, or if they were aware of?
> 
> I´m thinking of buying the library, but would like an official answer about this first!



I am curious about this as well. Could it be intentional due to the theme of the library? Bacon or...icy?


----------



## Mike Fox

ism said:


> I think there's research to show that for a certain type of work (generally on the more creative/realational side of things) working in a cafe, so long as its not too loud can be good for productivity.
> 
> And I think it may come down to the element of social energy that comes being out instead of sitting alone at your desk.
> 
> 
> I'm speculating here, but in that you generally can't compose in a cafe, occasional focus check-ins might provide a certain amount of social energy, which, in moderation, might be beneficial to actually getting work done in isolation.
> 
> Except of course when it doesn't.


Interesting!

To add to that, there probably is some evolutionary explanation for the link between socializing and creativity. They often seem to go hand in hand. After-all, we as artists do many things for an audience.


----------



## ism

Mike Fox said:


> Interesting!
> 
> To add to that, there probably is some evolutionary explanation for the link between socializing and creativity. They often seem to go hand in hand. After-all, we as artists do many things for an audience.


I would take a wide view of ‘creative’ work. Certain stages in working through problems in theoretical physics, for instance, i can do well in a cafe. Grinding through calculations calling for great precision, not so much. 

I’m wildly speculating here, but if you believe the evolutionary psychology that understand art as epi-phenomenal, then i don’t thing there’s likely to be specific insight from evolutionary into artistic endeavours. But there are clearly different modes of thought that we oscillate between / gravitate towards / are repelled from.

The ‘write drunk edit sober’ maxim for composing music applies equally, if less obviously, to theoretical physic, and even engineering. And there are elements to the craft of writing music that are as tediously and relentlessly calculative as any mathematical grinding I’ve ever had to do.

(Caveat is that all this evolutionary psychology is in its infancy, so i’d take it all with an enormous grain of salt).\

But to make this relevant to neo - I’d argue that we’re seeing different subjective modes of though mixing both fluidly and conflictually on this thread. 

An artistic / musical subjectivity - open to the expansiveness of the emerging music space.

Vs

A consumer / technical subjectivity - focus on nailing down details, maximizing purchasing decisions.

Both are important, and not necessarily irreconcilable modes of thought, but capable of being messy when they bounce around on the same thread.

Edit - i think you’re probably right about the social and creative. Again, i’m not too clear on avant guarde evolutionary psychology, and not saying I necessarily believe it, but i thing there is of theme that most of human cognative ability is evolved towards the social realm. Which makes the human ability for theoretical physics an epi-phenomenal evolutionary accident, perhaps even more than the human capacity to write symphonies.


----------



## Mike Fox

ism said:


> I would take a wide view of ‘creative’ work. Certain stages in working through problems in theoretical physics, for instance, i can do well in a cafe. Grinding through calculations calling for great precision, not so much.
> 
> I’m wildly speculating here, but if you believe the evolutionary psychology that understand art as epi-phenomenal, then i don’t thing there’s likely to be specific insight from evolutionary into artistic endeavours. But there are clearly different modes of thought that we oscillate between / gravitate towards / are repelled from.
> 
> The ‘write drunk edit sober’ maxim for composing music applies equally, if less obviously, to theoretical physic, and even engineering. And there are elements to the craft of writing music that are as tediously and relentlessly calculative as any mathematical grinding I’ve ever had to do.
> 
> (Caveat is that all this evolutionary psychology is in its infancy, so i’d take it all with an enormous grain of salt).


Ah, true! I guess biological and physiological evolution is limited to physical manifestations and testability, which would still possibly sprout a solid answer for the social/creative link. But yes, the psychological aspect behind it is incredibly fascinating.

And if you believe art transcends those limitations and derives from a more spiritual source, then you've just opened a window of neverending ideas, theories, philosophies, and possibilites of such phenomena, eh? Also fascinating.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> I suspect that for basic flautando, Neo and SCS are very directly contiguous. And this adjacency is, in my estimation, best though of not as a duplication, but as a valuable point of continuity that, in the first instance, gives the ability to sketch quickly in Neo, and then go into detail with SCS.


You can already do this with the very nice ensemble patches of SCS (it's long been my string sketching library of choice), so in that respect Neo doesn't add anything to that capability, except additional varieties of longs, which don't have exact correlates in the individual section patches. So in that respect, Neo, too, is more akin to Tundra in offering extensions to SCS/SSS rather than a means of sketching to be replaced by SCS. Yes, SCS can be used to bring detail to Neo especially with the large number of legatos for the individual sections. But Neo has flavors of flautando and sul tasto that SCS does not.


----------



## jbuhler

Iswhatitis said:


> BHCT is excellent, get it one day during a Xmas sale.


It's long been on my wishlist, but every time a sale comes along some other shiny object manages to get in the way...


----------



## 667

Paul Cardon said:


> Here's your bacon, y'all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not torn by it, I'm always a huge fan of a bit of looseness and funkiness in my libraries, but I'm sure some of you will disagree completely.



Thanks for this! Great demo. It's a little too much for me but I might just throw a filter on it.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> It's long been on my wishlist, but every time a sale comes along some other shiny object manages to get in the way...



Just make sure you like the sound of the room before you buy BHCT. It gives the overall library a very niche sound/vibe. It's a great library though!


----------



## ism

jbuhler said:


> You can already do this with the very nice ensemble patches of SCS (it's long been my string sketching library of choice), so in that respect Neo doesn't add anything to that capability, except additional varieties of longs, which don't have exact correlates in the individual section patches. So in that respect, Neo, too, is more akin to Tundra in offering extensions to SCS/SSS rather than a means of sketching to be replaced by SCS. Yes, SCS can be used to bring detail to Neo especially with the large number of legatos for the individual sections. But Neo has flavors of flautando and sul tasto that SCS does not.





Have you and sense of whether Neo give you the same "feathered" feel in its orchestration along the lines of OACE? 

Ensemble patches are great for sketching, but in practice you probably don't want all the instruments of all the time just because they happen to be in range.

Wheres when you, for instance, play an ascending melody on OACE the feathered orchestration has a lovely sense of good sections entering slowly - ie not all the violas entering immediately when you hit c2, and so on. 

In practice I find it give a much nicer balance that I get with conventional ensemble patches. Which is where I would an ensemble patch in Neo might be more like OACE that SCS.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> Just make sure you like the sound of the room before you buy BHCT. It gives the overall library a very niche sound/vibe. It's a great library though!


Isn't it the same room they used for the Studio series?

I've heard lots of demos with it and I very much like the sound.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> Isn't it the same room they used for the Studio series?
> 
> I've heard lots of demos with it and I very much like the sound.


Ooh, good question. Haven't researched that as i don't own their studio stuff. But i bet it is!


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> Isn't it the same room they used for the Studio series?
> 
> I've heard lots of demos with it and I very much like the sound.


Just looked it up. Yes, they were all recorded at Air One.


----------



## ism

BHT has been call the "Albion One of the Studio series"


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> Have you and sense of whether Neo give you the same "feathered" feel in its orchestration along the lines of OACE?
> 
> Ensemble patches are great for sketching, but in practice you probably don't want all the instruments of all the time just because they happen to be in range.
> 
> Wheres when you, for instance, play an ascending melody on OACE the feathered orchestration has a lovely sense of good sections entering slowly - ie not all the violas entering immediately when you hit c2, and so on.
> 
> In practice I find it give a much nicer balance that I get with conventional ensemble patches. Which is where I would an ensemble patch in Neo might be more like OACE that SCS.


I haven't yet spent enough time with the Neo strings to say for certain, but I didn't notice any abrupt breaks. By comparison, the brass has an awful break when the flugelhorn is added to the ensemble for instance. I don't think the winds are feathered per se, but they manage the transition well. The ensemble patches of SCS are generally quite good in this respect as well, though
I thought those patches were done with mixing rather than a recorded ensemble as with Neo (or the 1/2 of Loegria).


----------



## ism

Iswhatitis said:


> I would not characterize BHCT as an Albion. It has individual section ensembles, some of which are very good ie. Trombones, Concert Flutes, Piccolo and Flutes, Mixed Flutes, Timpani, Horns, and others as opposed to a Brass and Woodwind patch. Some of the orchestrated combinations I don’t find as useful IMHO but there is plenty of substance to appreciate in BHCT.


No, not an Albion, but the metaphor does convey something of the relation of the libraries.


----------



## Mike Fox

Since we're on the subject of BHCT, It got me wondering how well it would respond to IR's (especially considering the type of space it was recorded in), so I loaded up the flautandos and did a side by side comparison, one with just the tree mic, and one with just the tree mic plus Spaces 2. 

Thoughts?


----------



## MaxOctane

Mike Fox said:


> Since we're on the subject of BHCT, It got me wondering how well it would respond to IR's (especially considering the type of space it was recorded in), so I loaded up the flautandos and did a side by side comparison, one with just the tree mic, and one with just the tree mic plus Spaces 2.
> 
> Thoughts?




I've found BHCT and LCO Strings both benefit greatly from an IR like Spaces 2.


----------



## Henu

@Mike Fox , the latter hands down! Which preset did you use with Spaces? I'd like to try it out as well with that + BHCT.


----------



## Oxytoxine

Mike Fox said:


> Since we're on the subject of BHCT, It got me wondering how well it would respond to IR's (especially considering the type of space it was recorded in), so I loaded up the flautandos and did a side by side comparison, one with just the tree mic, and one with just the tree mic plus Spaces 2.
> 
> Thoughts?




I also like Nr. 2 much more.

But flautandos are not a good test for this purpose; almost anything sounds good on longs. If you try some sparse _shorts_ and listen precisely to what happens _in between_ the notes – you will then hear the room / reflections / tails.

The recordings in Air studios are by no means dry, on the opposite, they are full of very dense room information, it’s just that it is a very small room, resulting in the “dense” or “boxy” sound characteristic that is so typical to BHCT and the studio series.

And unfortunately, just adding a long tail to this or trying to add depth, messing with early ERs etc. for me results in a big mess and sounds very unrealistic and bad.

Using the close instead of the tree mics alleviates this, but sounds bad, since then really too much of the room information is lost. 

Granted, I am far from advanced in these things and am sure that it is possible to achieve better results, but it has been impossible for me to “transfer” the studio sound into a believable bigger hall, especially when trying to mess with spatial depth. This also does never fully work with really dry libs, but is much easier to approximate.


----------



## Mike Fox

Henu said:


> @Mike Fox , the latter hands down! Which preset did you use with Spaces? I'd like to try it out as well with that + BHCT.


It's the Dortmund Concert Hall A TS FR 3.4s. Out of the box.


----------



## Mike Fox

Iswhatitis said:


> Do you also own Waves IR-1 and AltiVerb? If yes I’d love to know your thoughts on AltiVerb compared to IR-1 and Spaces II.


I don't, sorry!


----------



## Mike Fox

Oxytoxine said:


> I also like Nr. 2 much more.
> 
> But flautandos are not a good test for this purpose; almost anything sounds good on longs. If you try some sparse _shorts_ and listen precisely to what happens _in between_ the notes – you will then hear the room / reflections / tails.



Here's a quick spiccato test (dry vs Spaces applied). I tried blending Spaces in the best I could with what little time I had.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Iswhatitis said:


> If anyone thinks that putting their music onto this Forum is gonna get them a gig I’d be stunned if that happened. I don’t see anyone self-promoting on this forum. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen unintentionally or intentionally but doesn’t seem to be what this forum is about unlike LinkedIn where one gets bombarded with endless self-promotion.


A bit naive...


----------



## Mike Fox

InLight-Tone said:


> A bit naive...


Bro, do you have anything positive to contribute?


----------



## InLight-Tone

Mike Fox said:


> Bro, do you have anything positive to contribute?



I did a bit back, but you glossed over it.
I'm quite fond of LIFE (Sun/Light, Air, Water & Earth)...


----------



## Greg

I dig it so far but liked the sound at namm too. Now I gotta figure out the eq curve on those noise cancelling headphones


----------



## idematoa

*01 - SA - Albion - NEO - Brunel Loops - Drifting*
*02 - SA - Albion - NEO - Stephenson Steam Band - Clustertflodd
03 - SA - Albion - NEO - Strings A - Long Flautando - Strings B - Long Tremolo
04 - SA - Aperture Strings - Refractions - Tremolo*
*05 - SA -OPW - Oliver's Piano* 

Symmetry [Albion NEO]


----------



## Mike Fox

So with the smaller sections in Neo, do you still get the lush Lyndhurst sound, or it more focused, eliminating that ambience?


----------



## idematoa

I applied a reverb (Blackhole® reverb) on Brunel Loops - Drifting & I mixed 2 tremolos (Aperture + NEO) for support


----------



## alchemist

Finally had a couple of hours to sit down and explore this library. Really enjoying it so far, took it for a test drive


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Not that I could replicate it, but the demos for NEO (from Spitfire and otherwise) are just so enticing.


----------



## rotho

Iswhatitis said:


> You can get the Air Hall sound but unlike SCS and SSO you have to turn up the Tree Ambient and Outrigger mic mixes to achieve it. They must have changed something when they recorded Neo: mic choices, preamps, desks... Neo is much more versatile than other Air Studios Hall recordings, which I think is a good thing since it can be blended with libraries recorded at Spitfire HQ and Studio One at Air much more easily.



Yeah I agree, the way the close perspective is done it feels more like OACE also ( although that is still my favourite engineered Spitfire recording )



looks like there is acoustic treatment within the space, even if its the type used for separation it will prob have an effect. The close perspectives look like a mixture of 414s, Coles and maybe M149s?

I think I may have seen a pic somewhere with the lyndhurst ceiling acoustic treatment lowered more than usual for this session which might also account for more control blending in ambients


----------



## Oxytoxine

One should never post in a grumpy mood, but as these are my honest feelings and thoughts at the moment, I will still give my impressions of my first 2 days with Neo.

I find the strings to be lovely. Somewhat more intimate, precise and clear than e.g. Chamber strings. As mentioned above, they perfectly fit both smaller and larger rooms, just with microphone settings it’s easy to blend them with Air studio, Lyndhurst, and basically any other library I tried, which is great!

Brass and Woodwinds – I will never use them and wonder in which scenario one could use them. But of course, this is a matter of taste. For mine, a very strange choice, even considering that it’s a special niche. What I do not find a matter of taste is that more “conventional” brass and woodwinds articulations and, as mentioned above, the possibility to access the diverse instrument sections individually, would have catapulted the usefulness into a new dimension. And man, the Bacon à I sincerely wonder how this could pass QC?

Some of the Brunel loops perfectly fit my style, and I will use them for downbeat ambient / triphop tracks. But in the end, it’s just a very limited number of stems, which basically require arranging a collage of sample loops like in the old days with Magix music maker or so. I feel like time traveling using those. But it’s still nice to have them, because they offer a nice blend of the world of pristine acoustic / orchestral and more modern, electronic / hybrid samples.

Stephensons Steam Band – I understand the intent, as they write in the description: “In keeping with the NEO soundscape, the aim was to extract and enhance the emotion from every sound, taking them to new, warped dimensions.” But for me, this does not work out, I must be missing something crucial here. Maybe this is appealing to guys coming from strictly an orchestral composing / classical music background which for the first time in their life have some synthesizer sounds available and think “oh wow how cool, so that’s the world of synthesizers, now I have arrived in modern times”. There are a gazillion soft and hardware synths and samplers available that are infinitely more capable, broader in scope and allow for much more creativity in mangling orchestral samples. For someone used to using synths, samplers etc. it’s like a bad joke.

The same goes for the Segla Textures. Some are indeed really, really beautiful. But some of the stuff? Ouch. Again: just throw some original orchestral samples into e.g. a granular or whatever synthesis engine, and you have a gazillion of much more unique, creative, musically useful etc. possibilities and results. It’s my first eDNA engine instrument, but it really seems to be extremely limited and / or I seem to really oversee something very obvious and do not get the point.

So, in summary I’ve learnt: Albions are not for me, but despite the negative points above, I do not regret buying Neo, because first there really are some gems in it, and second, one learns from experience, and I would always have been thinking that other producers / composers using the Albions have kind of a magic secret weapon in their sleeves 

P.S. As this is my first (and last) Albion, it was of course my mistake that I did not research these things beforehand (I was just focused on the orchestral side), and I am just sharing my initial impressions. I should also have added “in my opinion / perception” to every sentence, of course.


----------



## jbuhler

Oxytoxine said:


> One should never post in a grumpy mood, but as these are my honest feelings and thoughts at the moment, I will still give my impressions of my first 2 days with Neo.
> 
> I find the strings to be lovely. Somewhat more intimate, precise and clear than e.g. Chamber strings. As mentioned above, they perfectly fit both smaller and larger rooms, just with microphone settings it’s easy to blend them with Air studio, Lyndhurst, and basically any other library I tried, which is great!
> 
> Brass and Woodwinds – I will never use them and wonder in which scenario one could use them. But of course, this is a matter of taste. For mine, a very strange choice, even considering that it’s a special niche. What I do not find a matter of taste is that more “conventional” brass and woodwinds articulations and, as mentioned above, the possibility to access the diverse instrument sections individually, would have catapulted the usefulness into a new dimension. And man, the Bacon à I sincerely wonder how this could pass QC?
> 
> Some of the Brunel loops perfectly fit my style, and I will use them for downbeat ambient / triphop tracks. But in the end, it’s just a very limited number of stems, which basically require arranging a collage of sample loops like in the old days with Magix music maker or so. I feel like time traveling using those. But it’s still nice to have them, because they offer a nice blend of the world of pristine acoustic / orchestral and more modern, electronic / hybrid samples.
> 
> Stephensons Steam Band – I understand the intent, as they write in the description: “In keeping with the NEO soundscape, the aim was to extract and enhance the emotion from every sound, taking them to new, warped dimensions.” But for me, this does not work out, I must be missing something crucial here. Maybe this is appealing to guys coming from strictly an orchestral composing / classical music background which for the first time in their life have some synthesizer sounds available and think “oh wow how cool, so that’s the world of synthesizers, now I have arrived in modern times”. There are a gazillion soft and hardware synths and samplers available that are infinitely more capable, broader in scope and allow for much more creativity in mangling orchestral samples. For someone used to using synths, samplers etc. it’s like a bad joke.
> 
> The same goes for the Segla Textures. Some are indeed really, really beautiful. But some of the stuff? Ouch. Again: just throw some original orchestral samples into e.g. a granular or whatever synthesis engine, and you have a gazillion of much more unique, creative, musically useful etc. possibilities and results. It’s my first eDNA engine instrument, but it really seems to be extremely limited and / or I seem to really oversee something very obvious and do not get the point.
> 
> So, in summary I’ve learnt: Albions are not for me, but despite the negative points above, I do not regret buying Neo, because first there really are some gems in it, and second, one learns from experience, and I would always have been thinking that other producers / composers using the Albions have kind of a magic secret weapon in their sleeves
> 
> P.S. As this is my first (and last) Albion, it was of course my mistake that I did not research these things beforehand (I was just focused on the orchestral side), and I am just sharing my initial impressions. I should also have added “in my opinion / perception” to every sentence, of course.


I don’t think your response to the various parts of an Albion is unusual. I find the Brunel loops perplexing in every one of the Albions. The steam band always sound neat and I enjoy playing around with them but I rarely know how to incorporate them into what I do and I have other synths that do it better. I like the Segla idea just because it offers a way to quickly morph two patches from library. Other Albions also offer this to an extent in the steam band development kits but it’s nice to have it broken out and I see the EDNA presets in Segla less as patches to use (though some of them are very nice) than as examples of the kinds of morphing and warping you can do.

As for the orchestral instruments, this is what I’m primarily getting the libraries for. Initially I got Albions because they allowed me to sketch quickly, and to move from that to finished piece quickly. Loegria added a smaller string section, Iceni a louder layer and more bottom end, etc. they were each useful both in sketching and could be carried through to a final piece if needed.

With Tundra that changed. At least in terms of how I understand the libraries. Tundra is in some ways closer to OACE or BDT or Orchestral Swarm in the way it offers new dimensions to an orchestral sound and that can’t be replaced by other libraries with more detail (a point made by @ism). I suppose there is a parallel here with Iceni, which is designed for supplementation of both Albion One and SSO. But Iceni is less a library that stands on its own than is Tundra.

Neo does double duty: it has aspects of Tundra and can stand on its own though it can also be used to sketch in the manner of Albion One. The brass and winds for instance have nice shorts that allow it to sound like a very credible theater orchestra playing tutti. If you use only one of the string ensembles you can also get that thin, distinctively underpowered string sound characteristic of the small theater orchestra. In general, notwithstanding some issues with the winds (tuning, bacon fry) and brass (unbalanced ensemble sound, sloppy attacks on low dynamic longs) Neo can serve as a minimal patch sketching tool for a smaller, softer orchestra much as One serves as a minimal patch sketching tool for the larger, louder orchestra. In this respect it is a good complement to someone who uses Albion One a lot and wants to complement that with a smaller ensemble sound.

But I don't think that is Neo's primary focus. Its strings have a lot more to offer and they are the main reason I got it. And as with Tundra these are not really designed to be replaced but to be supplemented by or to supplement other libraries much as you might do with OACE. The winds and brass have a few articulations that fit into this framework as well, but they are fewer in number and so I don't know if they provide enough variety that they will be generally useful. (I also have a harder time using the winds in brass in Tundra.)


----------



## Oxytoxine

Very interesting to read both of your analyses on where Neo fits into the whole Albion spectrum!

Both of you have a much longer experience and more knowledge to share than I do, both with regard to composing with different libraries in general and also specifically to the Albions. I can totally understand and appreciate your points, and it was by no means my intention to generally "diss" the Albion line. Rather just a short rambling of my first impressions as a first time Albion and Neo user. I also completely get that all the walkthroughs etc. represent a rather clear picture of what is in the box 

I was well informed from walkthroughs, demos and your kind help upthread (this forum and you guys are really fantastic and helpful!) about the orchestral part, but do readily admit to have just blindly jumped in, full of excitement, for the other parts. I did by no means intend do complain that my expectations were not fulfilled or so, it was more in the sense of the meta level / almost philosophical discussion about the "nature" or "intent" of this packages that are the Albions.


----------



## easyrider

Iswhatitis said:


> Free world, free speech. No two people have the same sensibilities about everything in life. I don’t even think I love or like or dislike or hate something or someone in a constant sterile fixed test environment. What mood someone is in may dramatically change their own perspective about the same thing or product or person. I don’t think I have ever loved anything in a perpetual state of the same degree. Humans are constantly in a state of flux, chaos, and variable levels of consciousness and awareness let alone our subjective natures are not gauged to some sterile scale. Who knows how any of us can grade one’s level of attention or appreciation from one infinite moment to the next.



One mans trash is another mans treasure...

One mans treasure is another mans trash....

Music and art is subjective...


----------



## Oxytoxine

easyrider said:


> One mans trash is another mans treasure...
> 
> One mans treasure is another mans trash....
> 
> Music and art is subjective...



You social constructivist / postmodernist! As a natural scientist I insist that there exists only one objective reality!

(hope the joking is obvious -this topic always is good for hard fights between the staff of different disciplines / departments in our institution  )


----------



## ism

Oxytoxine said:


> You social constructivist / postmodernist! As a natural scientist I insist that there exists only one objective reality!
> 
> (hope the joking is obvious -this topic always is good for hard fights between the staff of different disciplines / departments in our institution  )



And putting on my hardest-of-hard-science theoretical physicist hat for a moment - longing for objective reality, not so unlike voting for Margret Thatcher, has always struck me a kind of nostalgia for the 1860s.


----------



## Ron Verboom

Did some more playing with NEO. Here's one of the pieces:


----------



## idematoa

The next chapter ... Maybe not?

Behind the title, I want to share my comments with NEO.
For long hours on Saturday, Digital Audio Workstation open, I explored a good part of these resources with the firm intention of taking notes, saving modified presets.
I failed ! Why ? Because I read the chapter all at once as if it were caught up in the discoveries and the immense possibilities of mixing and stacking sounds.
I leave this trip with 2/3 creative ideas and it is always my goal.
I am very satisfied with the time spent with NEO writing this new chapter together ...

PS: it's not at all rational and I assume it
See you


----------



## ism

Iswhatitis said:


> Who says politics ever changes? The republicans were using the same arguments to attract voters in the late 1800s as they do today. Nothing changes yet no one really knows what’s unfolding at the present. Politicians have always been largely corrupt and owned by big business and the billionaires who own them. Democracy is a ruse, it’s fool’s gold. Government, the court system, the constitution and banking is all about protecting the property rights of the Uber wealthiest class. Always was, always will be. Richest person in late 18th century Revolutionary States: George Washington. I’m not dissing Washington, but America was and is all about wealth, power and money 💰. The real American Exceptionaism is the way we delude ourselves with all kinds of notions of fantasy ie. All men are created equal, for starters....



There's an argument in this ... but it misses the capacity for real change. And forgets all the genuine forces for change in America - trade unionists, suffragettes, civil rights activists ... 

We see the same arguments for music - there's nothing new under the sun. It's all recycled and rehashed. Which very often it is. 

But this also forgets the genuine human capacity for How Newness Enters the World. 

So too for sample libraries. A lot of the debate here is: is Neo this really anything new? It just more of the same as Tundra vs no it's just more of the same as BDT vs. "all you sul tastes sound the same to me". Which for some is no doubt true. 

But I certainly hear something wholly new.


----------



## easyrider

Waking with a clear head is new for an alcoholic who stops drinking...

Waking with a clear head is nothing new for the non drinker....


----------



## kelexys

I'm looking for a library which I can use to underscore piano compositions, and also for making ambient electronic tracks. I've seen the walkthroughs but i'm still not completely convinced. 
So this is a question for the Neo owners. Would this Albion be good for those purposes?


----------



## ism

Iswhatitis said:


> Most listeners will not be able to tell the difference between Neo and other libraries, so how could Neo be new to them if they can’t tell the difference from something not new?



It is completely unimportant whether most listeners can "tell" the difference.

I *only* care about whether they will be able to *feel* the difference.



And all newness has some kind of anchor to something that came before.

The nature of metaphor itself (which by some account is the mechanism of all new human though) inherently relies on simultaneous sameness and difference. The classical example is "Achilles is a Lion", which hinges on both the similarity of the quality of Achillies and the qualities of Lions, but also the juxtaposing of the difference. Because Achillies isn't actually a Lion. Yet the metaphor works to introduce a concept into the world precicely but the simultaneous invocation of sameness and difference.

So too with the Neo - new, yet with points of contiguity to Tundra, SCS, OACE, Logeria etc.


----------



## Ron Verboom

Another piece called 'Surreal Endings' (only the bass is from LCO)


----------



## zeng

I love Spitfire and their sound anf have many of their libraries such as SCS, SSS, BDT, LCO, SSW, SSB, Albion etc...But what I call "new" is for example 8Dio's poly-arc patches. They really have an impact on realism and sound. If you play and programme it well, it sounds ultimately realistic, good and different...
So according to me, with this approach there is nothing new in Neo. It is just a new library but not a game changer...not a new chapter.


----------



## Puzzlefactory

Ok, so I’m not sure if this has already been covered in the thread and apologies if it has.

But how similar is this to Albion 2?

I have the original and I’m wondering if this library is worth it if you already have the first one?

I get a pretty good discount for Neo (almost half price) and I do like Tundra and LCO strings (which seem to be of a similar ilk) but at the same time I can’t help wondering...

I’ve heard Daniel James did a comparison video but can’t seem to find it anywhere (and I think he’s banned from talking about Spitfire in these forums)...


----------



## barteredbride

Puzzlefactory said:


> Ok, so I’m not sure if this has already been covered in the thread and apologies if it has.
> 
> But how similar is this to Albion 2?



Basically, nearly this whole thread is about this topic!! If you spend 2-3 mins of reading you´ll get your answer!


----------



## Puzzlefactory

barteredbride said:


> Basically, nearly this whole thread is about this topic!! If you spend 2-3 mins of reading you´ll get your answer!



Hmmm, can’t really see anything much since Thursday (not really interested in what people thought before getting it)...


----------



## davidson

Puzzlefactory said:


> I’ve heard Daniel James did a comparison video but can’t seem to find it anywhere (and I think he’s banned from talking about Spitfire in these forums)...


----------



## paulthomson

davidson said:


>




Just to point out that this is **categorically** untrue. Bearing in mind we've published information and photos about the sessions, the band size is different, the recording layout and mics are different, the musicians were different, I could publish invoices from Air Studios and the orchestral contractor showing the sessions, and so on.

Loegria (Albion 2) was recorded in 2012, 8 years ago. It was released on 30th August 2012.

Bearing in mind I published a 30 minute walkthrough in huge detail of the orchestral part of the library, and also bearing in mind the two examples posted actually sound quite different.....


----------



## barteredbride

Puzzlefactory said:


> Hmmm, can’t really see anything much since Thursday (not really interested in what people thought before getting it)...



It´s a big thread! 

Try post #372 

Sums up the difference between Loegria and NEO perfectly and I think is what you´re looking for. Christian Henson chips in too.


----------



## styledelk

Sometimes groups/mobs have too much memory. If we didn't know Loegria never existed, no one would even be making the comparison. This could just be Neo. If Spitfire hadn't made any reference to it, maybe even then it'd be fine.

I didn't have Loegria, hadn't really heard much of it before. Neo is Neo. Neo is good. Buy Neo because Neo is good. Considering it in isolation (or at least in relation to your other libraries) seems like the only sane thing to do.

I'm finally going to make a little music with it this morning.


----------



## ism

davidson said:


>




Sigh. But in fairness to DJ, his reviews of fff trombone patches are simply chalk-full of nuance and insight.


----------



## styledelk

Work is never done, but here's how I spent my morning with Albion Neo. Tried to use little bits of most of the parts. Haven't really worked with Brunel Loops and the EDNA stuff before.


----------



## jbuhler

Puzzlefactory said:


> Ok, so I’m not sure if this has already been covered in the thread and apologies if it has.
> 
> But how similar is this to Albion 2?
> 
> I have the original and I’m wondering if this library is worth it if you already have the first one?
> 
> I get a pretty good discount for Neo (almost half price) and I do like Tundra and LCO strings (which seem to be of a similar ilk) but at the same time I can’t help wondering...
> 
> I’ve heard Daniel James did a comparison video but can’t seem to find it anywhere (and I think he’s banned from talking about Spitfire in these forums)...


Having now spent some time with Neo, I'd say Loegria and Neo are quite different. There is some overlap in the strings, but the Neo strings are deeper and more varied. It's also really fun and inspiring playing with the two ensembles.

Neo also has the capability to serve as a small ensemble version of Albion One in a way Loegria never could. Neo can also be quieter (in this respect it's similar to Tundra with legatos for the winds and brass) and you can sketch things with it for the quieter side of the orchestra but Neo can also go reasonably loud but it has the sound of a smaller ensemble, closer to a chamber orchestra where you can hear the details of the individual instruments much more readily. In an earlier post I noted you can also get the sound of a theater orchestra with it. Neo's brass and woodwinds are not as compelling as the strings, and the woodwinds have some real technical problems at the moment—tuning and "bacon fry"—but winds and brass are sufficiently varied to make the same kind of quick broad brush piece for small orchestra that Albion One allows you to do with the full sized orchestra. In that sense Neo's a much better Albion Two than Loegria was.

But Neo is also a chamber sized complement to Tundra. As with the comparison of Neo's strings to Loegria, there is a degree of overlap with Tundra but not just with the strings but in all sections. Tundra is somewhat deeper here (more articulations) but the sensibility of Neo is more toward the chamber orchestra rather than the full orchestra playing softly. I find the shorts in Neo generally more useable than those in Tundra, and all sections in Neo have legato, allowing more lyrical playing, though the brass legato is problematically fractured by the instrumentation—there is no register where I find it sounding great the way Tundra's horneuph sounds great between C2 and G3.

I really wish SF had extended the string low legato up an octave to around G3 to allow for a full tenor (cello) range expression. As it is, the string legatos divide at F#2/G2 meaning you have to either fake this transition or be very selective in your choice of keys. I get around this easily enough by using the SCS cellos, which sit nicely with Neo. Likely any cello legato patch treated with the proper reverb and layered (or not) with one of the string longs from Neo would work fine, but it does mean futzing with another patch when one of the advantages of working with an ensemble library like the Albions is that they allow you to use a minimal number of patches to get the broad strokes of the piece. The long string articulation also sits nicely with the winds legato and you can in a sense borrow the legato from the winds to produce an effective blended lyrical line.

I'll add that the harmonium has a very appealing sound. And the Segla Textures allows you to easily morph between many of the orchestral articulations in the library. I haven’t yet explored the steam band or loops in any detail.


----------



## ism

jbuhler said:


> Having now spent some time with Neo, I'd say Loegria and Neo are quite different. There is some overlap in the strings, but the Neo strings are deeper and more varied. It's also really fun and inspiring playing with the two ensembles.
> 
> Neo also has the capability to serve as a small ensemble version of Albion One in a way Loegria never could. Neo can also be quieter (in this respect it's similar to Tundra with legatos for the winds and brass) and you can sketch things with it for the quieter side of the orchestra but Neo can also go reasonably loud but it has the sound of a smaller ensemble, closer to a chamber orchestra where you can hear the details of the individual instruments much more readily. In an earlier post I noted you can also get the sound of a theater orchestra with it. Neo's brass and woodwinds are not as compelling as the strings, and the woodwinds have some real technical problems at the moment—tuning and "bacon fry"—but winds and brass are sufficiently varied to make the same kind of quick broad brush piece for small orchestra that Albion One allows you to do with the full sized orchestra. In that sense Neo's a much better Albion Two than Loegria was.
> 
> But Neo is also a chamber sized complement to Tundra. As with the comparison of Neo's strings to Loegria, there is a degree of overlap with Tundra but not just with the strings but in all sections. Tundra is somewhat deeper here (more articulations) but the sensibility of Neo is more toward the chamber orchestra rather than the full orchestra playing softly. I find the shorts in Neo generally more useable than those in Tundra, and all sections in Neo have legato, allowing more lyrical playing, though the brass legato is problematically fractured by the instrumentation—there is no register where I find it sounding great the way Tundra's horneuph sounds great between C2 and G3.
> 
> I really wish SF had extended the string low legato up an octave to around G3 to allow for a full tenor (cello) range expression. As it is, the string legatos divide at F#2/G2 meaning you have to either fake this transition or be very selective in your choice of keys. I get around this easily enough by using the SCS cellos, which sit nicely with Neo. Likely any cello legato patch treated with the proper reverb and layered (or not) with one of the string longs from Neo would work fine, but it does mean futzing with another patch when one of the advantages of working with an ensemble library like the Albions is that they allow you to use a minimal number of patches to get the broad strokes of the piece. The long string articulation also sits nicely with the winds legato and you can in a sense borrow the legato from the winds to produce an effective blended lyrical line.
> 
> I'll add that the harmonium has a very appealing sound. And the Segla Textures allows you to easily morph between many of the orchestral articulations in the library. I haven’t yet explored the steam band or loops in any detail.


Great review. 

I still find it most compelling as an extension of OACE/Tundra/SCS, but it's very interesting to see how it relates to Albion One/Logria.

It's notable however that there really doesn't exist - anywhere - an Albion "start scoring films now" One analogue for softer and more dramatic film music.

For instance Loegria didn't have the winds, Albion One winds are way too aggressive, Neo winds are a bit ... idiosyncratic. Or perhaps more to the point, orchestrated to sound "harmonium-like", wheres when I try to write for winds I'm explicitly trying to prevent the "organ effect", which sounds closer to brass to my ear that the textural quality I love about. 

If I had to start buying libraries again today, I think Neo + SSW would be a great starting point. 

But its curious that there nowhere exists a starter library for non-epic films.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

ism said:


> Great review.
> 
> I still find it most compelling as an extension of OACE/Tundra/SCS, but it's very interesting to see how it relates to Albion One/Logria.
> 
> It's notable however that there really doesn't exist - anywhere - an Albion "start scoring films now" One analogue for softer and more dramatic film music.
> 
> For instance Loegria didn't have the winds, Albion One winds are way too aggressive, Neo winds are a bit ... idiosyncratic. Or perhaps more to the point, orchestrated to sound "harmonium-like", wheres when I try to write for winds I'm explicitly trying to prevent the "organ effect", which sounds closer to brass to my ear that the textural quality I love about.
> 
> If I had to start buying libraries again today, I think Neo + SSW would be a great starting point.
> 
> But its curious that there nowhere exists a starter library for non-epic films.


I would say British Drama Toolkit is marvelous for what you describe here.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> Great review.
> 
> I still find it most compelling as an extension of OACE/Tundra/SCS, but it's very interesting to see how it relates to Albion One/Logria.
> 
> It's notable however that there really doesn't exist - anywhere - an Albion "start scoring films now" One analogue for softer and more dramatic film music.
> 
> For instance Loegria didn't have the winds, Albion One winds are way too aggressive, Neo winds are a bit ... idiosyncratic. Or perhaps more to the point, orchestrated to sound "harmonium-like", wheres when I try to write for winds I'm explicitly trying to prevent the "organ effect", which sounds closer to brass to my ear that the textural quality I love about.
> 
> If I had to start buying libraries again today, I think Neo + SSW would be a great starting point.
> 
> But its curious that there nowhere exists a starter library for non-epic films.


I've thought about the soft Albion One (a library that runs pp-mf to complement One's mp-ff) and one issue is that the soft side generally requires a more soloistic treatment of brass and winds. Even so, I think SF might have got closer if they'd split the winds and brass into ensembles A and B like they did the strings. I find the chamber orchestra idea works and I don't find the winds to be especially harmonium like, at least not in the shorts and legato. If anything the issue is that they don't blend evenly like they do in Albion One. 



Fever Phoenix said:


> I would say British Drama Toolkit is marvelous for what you describe here.



Yes, I wish SF would revisit BDT and add shorts at least as well as an oboe, bassoon, and a horn. I do think there is a nice overlap between BDT and Neo, though I haven't yet tried to put them together.


----------



## idematoa




----------



## Fever Phoenix

jbuhler said:


> I've thought about the soft Albion One (a library that runs pp-mf to complement One's mp-ff) and one issue is that the soft side generally requires a more soloistic treatment of brass and winds. Even so, I think SF might have got closer if they'd split the winds and brass into ensembles A and B like they did the strings. I find the chamber orchestra idea works and I don't find the winds to be especially harmonium like, at least not in the shorts and legato. If anything the issue is that they don't blend evenly like they do in Albion One.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I wish SF would revisit BDT and add shorts at least as well as an oboe, bassoon, and a horn. I do think there is a nice overlap between BDT and Neo, though I haven't yet tried to put them together.


I am still going back and forth about Albion Neo. (which usually ends up in me buying said library)


----------



## brenneisen

paulthomson said:


> and also bearing in mind the two examples posted actually sound quite different.....



they sound obviously different

maybe who brought this silly comparison went a bit deaf from too many loud horns and low brass patches?

Loegria: 8 violin1 / 6 violin2 / 4 viola / 4 cello / 3 bass
NEO A: 3 violin1 / 2 violin2 / 2 viola / 3 cello / 2 bass
NEO B: 3 violin1 / 2 violin2 / 2 viola / 3 cello / 1 bass


----------



## Brasart

Fever Phoenix said:


> I am still going back and forth about Albion Neo. (which usually ends up in me buying said library)



Hahaha, same here


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Brasart said:


> Hahaha, same here



I have barely recovered from the holiday sales, lol. More colors, more tools do help me get job done though


----------



## SupremeFist

I for one am amazed that a guy who writes cookie-cutter farty hybrid epic music does not like this new library, but it is a little concerning that he should be dedicating so much time and effort to spreading misinformation about it.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Fever Phoenix said:


> I have barely recovered from the holiday sales, lol. More colors, more tools do help me get job done though


Yeah... right


----------



## barteredbride

Paul Cardon said:


> Here's your bacon, y'all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not torn by it, I'm always a huge fan of a bit of looseness and funkiness in my libraries, but I'm sure some of you will disagree completely.





Hi @paulthomson sorry to ask you direct, but regarding the apparent crackling / ´bacon frying´sound in the low winds.

*Is this a glitch that might be fixed in a future update? Or just a quirk of the library?*

I think I can hear it also in your walkthrough. 

I will probably just accept this as a quirk of the samples, but as I can´t actually test the library myself before buying, I don´t know how audiable this actually is.


----------



## ism

SupremeFist said:


> I for one am amazed that a guy who writes cookie-cutter farty hybrid epic music does not like this new library, but it is a little concerning that he should be dedicating so much time and effort to spreading misinformation about it.


Ah no sure, Daniel is great. His musical sensitivities are just in different spaces, Its all good.


----------



## Paul Cardon

barteredbride said:


> Hi @paulthomson sorry to ask you direct, but regarding the apparent crackling / ´bacon frying´sound in the low winds.
> 
> *Is this a glitch that might be fixed in a future update? Or just a quirk of the library?*
> 
> I think I can hear it also in your walkthrough.
> 
> I will probably just accept this as a quirk of the samples, but as I can´t actually test the library myself before buying, I don´t know how audiable this actually is.


It's DEFINITELY coming from the players, so the only "fix" would be scrubbing every sample, trying to remove the sax spit without killing the rest of the top end in the samples. Probably best to assume it'll stay, not out of laziness but rather it'd be a pain in the ass to remove that stuff.

I think that brings up another good point. This was never meant to be a comprehensive new option for a sax wind ensemble. It's a toolset geared towards a specific style and aesthetic. If any of you were waiting for a good orchestra sax library, this just ain't it.


----------



## styledelk

Paul Cardon said:


> It's DEFINITELY coming from the players, so the only "fix" would be scrubbing every sample, trying to remove the sax spit without killing the rest of the top end in the samples. Probably best to assume it'll stay, not out of laziness but rather it'd be a pain in the ass to remove that stuff.
> 
> I think that brings up another good point. This was never meant to be a comprehensive new option for a sax wind ensemble. It's a toolset geared towards a specific style and aesthetic. If any of you were waiting for a good orchestra sax library, this just ain't it.



I really like the sound that's there. I strongly feel like it was intended. I've already found creative uses for it.


----------



## wayne_rowley

Just pulled the trigger on Neo. The synth sounds and the chamber strings sound great to me (and I don't have Albion 2, Tundra or Chamber Strings).

Downloading away...


----------



## BezO

Paul Cardon said:


> ...I think that brings up another good point. This was never meant to be a comprehensive new option for a sax wind ensemble. It's a toolset geared towards a specific style and aesthetic. If any of you were waiting for a good orchestra sax library, this just ain't it.


I didn't think this was it, but I'm not so secretly hoping they do a sax lib. Unfortunately for that, Christian said in one of the walk throughs that he typically doesn't like saxes, so this will likely never happen.



styledelk said:


> I really like the sound that's there. I strongly feel like it was intended. I've already found creative uses for it.


I was hoping there was an uproar about this that would "force" them to re-record. Folks finding character in it and not being bothered by it kills that.


----------



## ism

BezO said:


> I didn't think this was it, but I'm not so secretly hoping they do a sax lib. Unfortunately for that, Christian said in one of the walk throughs that he typically doesn't like saxes, so this will likely never happen.
> 
> I was hoping there was an uproar about this that would "force" them to re-record. Folks finding character in it and not being bothered by it kills that.



I have to wonder if it hadn't first been described here in very scatalogical terms, would the response be the same?


----------



## jbuhler

styledelk said:


> I really like the sound that's there. I strongly feel like it was intended. I've already found creative uses for it.


Maybe to some extent, but it isn't carried across the entire sample set with the same prominence.


----------



## BezO

ism said:


> I have to wonder if it hadn't first been described here in very scatalogical terms, would the response be the same?


I'd hope that wouldn't affects folks' feelings on it, but who knows?

I'm learning that there are few if any perfectly recorded VIs, but this is the worse I've come across so far. I appreciate folks seeing the "good" in it, but it's disappointing. And I'm shocked after seeing responses to what I felt were lesser issues in other libs.


----------



## ism

BezO said:


> I'd hope that wouldn't affects folks' feelings on it, but who knows?
> 
> I'm learning that there are few if any perfectly recorded VIs, but this is the worse I've come across so far. I appreciate folks seeing the "good" in it, but it's disappointing. And I'm shocked after seeing responses to what I felt were lesser issues in other libs.


Yeah, hard to say.

But hope you get your symphonic saxophones one way or another.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Did a bit of extra unscripted live stream exploration on the library for others looking for a messier dive. NEO stuff starts at 9:15




This also preludes a full structured NEO review I'll be putting together soon


----------



## ism

Very hard to describe how much i love all the flautandos in this. Completely enthralling to listen to,


----------



## Fever Phoenix

Paul Cardon said:


> Did a bit of extra unscripted live stream exploration on the library for others looking for a messier dive. NEO stuff starts at 9:15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This also preludes a full structured NEO review I'll be putting together soon



dude, love your playing!


----------



## ism

Paul Cardon said:


> Did a bit of extra unscripted live stream exploration on the library for others looking for a messier dive. NEO stuff starts at 9:15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This also preludes a full structured NEO review I'll be putting together soon



Just to echo the above - your improvisations themselves really provide insight into the possibilities of the library. Some really superb stuff in this.


----------



## rotho

styledelk said:


> I really like the sound that's there. I strongly feel like it was intended. I've already found creative uses for it.



I love da bacon


----------



## Paul Cardon

jbuhler said:


> Maybe to some extent, but it isn't carried across the entire sample set with the same prominence.


Yeah this is an interesting thought for sure. Consistency is great, and I hate to add to the force that wouldn't call to see this stuff done better, but for how I'm definitely going to be using this library (special textures to add where it's needed), I'm generally going to lean into the unique character in each thing on a piece-by-piece basis. I can definitely see it being a potential pain for anyone who wants to use it as a total suite, as something meant to be used as a whole with consistency, though other than the consistency of the bacon, it's not haphazard.


----------



## Brasart

Paul Cardon said:


> Did a bit of extra unscripted live stream exploration on the library for others looking for a messier dive. NEO stuff starts at 9:15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This also preludes a full structured NEO review I'll be putting together soon




Very cool playthrough, love your playing and comments!
And I love Replika XT too, are you using it as a regular FX send in your template? If so, would love to know with what settings you're using it as a regular, my personal favorite is the Soft Cloud preset.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Brasart said:


> Very cool playthrough, love your playing and comments!
> And I love Replika XT too, are you using it as a regular FX send in your template? If so, would love to know with what settings you're using it as a regular, my personal favorite is the Soft Cloud preset.


Yeah, just a send. I love the hell out of RXT's diffusion mode as a more-interesting Blackhole substitute, but I couldn't say how I like to tweak it best as I'm always tweaking it custom every time I load it up. I do really enjoy turning on its LP filter with a slow LFO so the character of it evolves over time.


----------



## Brasart

Paul Cardon said:


> Yeah, just a send. I love the hell out of RXT's diffusion mode as a more-interesting Blackhole substitute, but I couldn't say how I like to tweak it best as I'm always tweaking it custom every time I load it up. I do really enjoy turning on its LP filter with a slow LFO so the character of it evolves over time.



That's exactly how I see it, a kind of Blackhole alternative — but at times I even use both together!


----------



## idematoa

*Albion NEO & British Drama Toolkit*

01 - Spitfire Audio - Albion NEO - Brunel Loops - Suspended in Space
02 - Spitfire Audio - British Drama Toolkit - Advanced - Cello - Long Harmonics - Long Soft
03 - Spitfire Audio - British Drama Toolkit - Main - Tutti Long Soft 

*Tectonic Plates*


----------



## schmeete

Paul Cardon said:


> Did a bit of extra unscripted live stream exploration on the library for others looking for a messier dive. NEO stuff starts at 9:15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This also preludes a full structured NEO review I'll be putting together soon



You are one prolific mofo bro! A pleasure to watch you scadoodle across the keys. Above all you really bring spectacular insight into the compositional tools you demonstrate. 🤘🏻


----------



## idematoa

*Spitfire Audio - Albion NEO - Brunel Loops - Fields - British Drama Toolkit - Main

Water Drops




*


----------



## jbuhler

Iswhatitis said:


> Wish Spitfire comes out with a Pro version of each Albion that includes separated instrument sections ie. Trumpets, Trombones, Flutes, Oboes, Clarinets, Bassoons, Violins I & II, Violas, Celli, Basses, Horns, Cimbassi, Tubas, etc... like OT Metropolis Arks.


 You’re describing SSO. And indeed you can use SSO this way with Albion One, and there are even contextual videos of Christian using it this way. The Arks take a different approach to the ensemble library but it’s also a more complicated one and doesn’t lend itself to quick sketching the way Albion does. I have and like both but they are very different tools and I tend to use patches in the Arks as supplements for a particular sound but I’ll use the whole of Albion One for sketching and then replace it or supplement it with instruments from SSO if I want more detail or control.

The other Albions have different relationships to SSO and bring a different capacity to it. But in general the breaking down to individual instrument requires SSO (or SCS). So if you want the “pro” version that’s where you go. (This is complicated somewhat by later Albions especially Tundra and Neo in that they offer patches that are not really able to be replaced by more detailed versions in SSO/SCS.)

Also obviously not everyone works this way and if you don’t then maybe the Albions aren’t for you. Or you have to decide if what an Albion library brings you with orchestral patches, hybrid and other things will be worth the price. For me they do and Tundra and Neo especially so.


----------



## Brasart

Well I just learned that my next project is taking place in fictional Iceland, so I guess that seals the deal, NEO here I come!


----------



## ism

Iswhatitis said:


> Sure there is: SStO (which is around $330 during BF and Xmas sales) is a great choice for non-epic genre, though I strongly recommend upgrading to SStO Professional given how many more instruments and string libraries one gets in Pro (16-12-12-12-4, 8-6-6-6-4 core, 4a-3a-3a-3a-4, 4b-3b-3b-3b-4).


Hmm. This is a good point.

But at the same time, while either SStO or BHTC are great entry points to a certain type of non-epic work, there's another, enormously different non-epic space that libraries like Loegria, NEO, SCS, SSW and solo strings offer entry to, that don't really fit with the studio ethos.

(With, I suppose the caveat that I have, and really love the Studio strings, when drenched in enough reverb. But I don't think that Studio winds could ever replace SSW, its just a difference space entirely)


----------



## ism

Iswhatitis said:


> Yes, I agree ☝ But it’s great if one can afford to have SSO, SCS and SStO eventually as BHCT, BDT, LCO


Yep. Always safest to just buy all of them. It's the only way to be sure.


----------



## jonesdip

Amazing. Thanks Cory


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jonesdip said:


> Amazing. Thanks Cory



slow down there chief, lol we can find his review.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but it's not like any of the 3 threads are particularly obscure - and they are all on the same topic. 

to clarify, crossposting is fine - just use it wisely


----------



## jonesdip

ProfoundSilence said:


> slow down there chief, lol we can find his review.
> 
> I appreciate the enthusiasm, but it's not like any of the 3 threads are particularly obscure - and they are all on the same topic



Rebuke acknowledged - apologies. Enthusiasm curbed.


----------



## gussunkri

jonesdip said:


> Rebuke acknowledged - apologies. Enthusiasm curbed.


Curb your enthusiasm is the best show on TV IMHO. Also, Cory is by faaar the best reviewer.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jonesdip said:


> Rebuke acknowledged - apologies. Enthusiasm curbed.


tried to edit it but got caught up.

it's more or less just be aware, it can get old fast - and unfortunately can cause annoyance/resentment towards the content creator more than the poster. A good example is when a SF product comes out that some people aren't excited about they'll be the first to say "Do we need another thread on this?" ect. Same with OT/ect. Except CSS.... I think everyone is happy for more repeat threads about CSS XD


----------



## jonesdip

ProfoundSilence said:


> tried to edit it but got caught up.
> 
> it's more or less just be aware, it can get old fast - and unfortunately can cause annoyance/resentment towards the content creator more than the poster. A good example is when a SF product comes out that some people aren't excited about they'll be the first to say "Do we need another thread on this?" ect. Same with OT/ect. Except CSS.... I think everyone is happy for more repeat threads about CSS XD



Not a problem - thanks - lesson learned and explanation appreciated.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jonesdip said:


> Not a problem - thanks - lesson learned and explanation appreciated.


well I dont speak for the forum, just what I've observed from the past. 

I always thought it was odd when people would he randomly grumpy about crossposting, but it's often in specific patterns

disclaimer I get annoyed at some of the "what should I buy" threads but I simply try not to engage if I dont feel like it, rather than act like a grumpster(I am grumpy, I'm just quiet about it lol)


----------



## styledelk

Was inspired around a sort of systems music approach with Neo here:


This is:
- Neo Strings B Pizz
- Neo Strings A Short Spiccato
- Neo Staccato WW
- Neo WW Longs
- Neo Brass Long Pulses
- A little Kepler Brass
- NI Noir for piano

A good amount of this is powered through a Make Noise Rene eurorack sequencer into Live for a few of the tracks.


----------



## Brasart

_Cross-posting here from the sample talk thread :_

Here's my first take on Albion NEO, all sounds are from NEO :


I thought I would go for an textural atmospheric orchestral soundscape, but ended up doing an electronic cue.
One thing to note is that while it doesn't revolutionize my world, NEO has been very inspiring to play with — and that's exactly what I was looking for.

If I didn't tried to stay within NEO only, I think I would have gone for some Phobos percussions, a richer/lusher string part with BBCSO and some electronic analog-y line using Monark.

And here's the original .wav if you prefer that to soundcloud : https://www.dropbox.com/s/mksj05jm1z280qt/Albion%20NEO%20-%20Electronic%20Cue.wav?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mksj05jm1z280qt/Albion NEO - Electronic Cue.wav?dl=0)


----------



## styledelk

Brasart said:


> _Cross-posting here from the sample talk thread :_
> 
> Here's my first take on Albion NEO, all sounds are from NEO :
> 
> 
> I thought I would go for an textural atmospheric orchestral soundscape, but ended up doing an electronic cue.
> One thing to note is that while it doesn't revolutionize my world, NEO has been very inspiring to play with — and that's exactly what I was looking for.
> 
> If I didn't tried to stay within NEO only, I think I would have gone for some Phobos percussions, a richer/lusher string part with BBCSO and some electronic analog-y line using Monark.
> 
> And here's the original .wav if you prefer that to soundcloud : https://www.dropbox.com/s/mksj05jm1z280qt/Albion%20NEO%20-%20Electronic%20Cue.wav?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mksj05jm1z280qt/Albion NEO - Electronic Cue.wav?dl=0)




You got a great mix out of this!


----------



## Paul Cardon

Last thing I'll bother this thread with. Whipped together another goofy little demo. Everything is Albion NEO except for the piano (Walker D) and some of the percussion (BBCSO military snare and timpani)




The shorts are pretty messy, but it's really fun to play into the sound of the limited player count.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Paul Cardon said:


> Last thing I'll bother this thread with. Whipped together another goofy little demo. Everything is Albion NEO except for the piano (Walker D) and some of the percussion (BBCSO military snare and timpani)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shorts are pretty messy, but it's really fun to play into the sound of the limited player count.



Stupendous!
All the washy delay/verb/fx in the final 30s, are they 3rd party plugins or are they sounds from Neo's synth patches?


----------



## styledelk

Paul Cardon said:


> Last thing I'll bother this thread with. Whipped together another goofy little demo. Everything is Albion NEO except for the piano (Walker D) and some of the percussion (BBCSO military snare and timpani)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shorts are pretty messy, but it's really fun to play into the sound of the limited player count.




Love this. Honestly it's the first library outside of Sonokinetic's Indie that's gotten me to want to play with short articulations without feeling like an imposter.


----------



## jbuhler

styledelk said:


> Love this. Honestly it's the first library outside of Sonokinetic's Indie that's gotten me to want to play with short articulations without feeling like an imposter.


I find a joyful, comic sensibility to the library that just makes it fun to play with. It’s peculiar. I’ve even come to embrace the bacon fry as part of that sensibility.

That’s not to say that the library is limited to expression of that kind. That’s not all it can do and it is exceptionally versatile. It’s just that playing with it puts me in a playful mood...


----------



## styledelk

jbuhler said:


> I find a joyful, comic sensibility to the library that just makes it fun to play with. It’s peculiar. I’ve even come to embrace the bacon fry as part of that sensibility.
> 
> That’s not to say that the library is limited to expression of that kind. That’s not all it can do and it is exceptionally versatile. It’s just that playing with it puts me in a playful mood...



I've found it works extremely well both for playability, but also with various sequencers in Max4Live, and even with my eurorack setup. Something I haven't really dared to try and make work with other libraries. I haven't given a go in Cubase yet because I'm just having so much fun in Ableton Live with a different approach.


----------



## Paul Cardon

Jdiggity1 said:


> Stupendous!
> All the washy delay/verb/fx in the final 30s, are they 3rd party plugins or are they sounds from Neo's synth patches?


Strings A "Long Pulses" and the Selga "Sahara" patch. Only main effect is NI Replika XT for the washy delay/verb.


----------



## Karma

Paul Cardon said:


> Last thing I'll bother this thread with. Whipped together another goofy little demo. Everything is Albion NEO except for the piano (Walker D) and some of the percussion (BBCSO military snare and timpani)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shorts are pretty messy, but it's really fun to play into the sound of the limited player count.


----------



## barteredbride

Hello NEO owners,

I´ve not really used ´ensemble´patches that much, with multiple instruments spread across the keyboard, from low to high.

I presume that there must have been some sort of decision from Spitfire regarding the range of each instrument recorded...for example, you won´t have a cello in a really high register, while on the same note, a violin is playing in a low register. Or is this correct?

Is there a manual with NEO that says what range has been recorded with each instrument?

I guess with the strings A an B patches it would be something like: (from left to right on the keyboard)

Bass only, bass with cellos, cellos with violas, violas with violin, violins only.

Obviously I will go with my ears and what sounds right, but it would be helpful to know if there are certain notes that only contain say, violas and cellos, so I can layer with other violas and cellos from other libraries.

Does that make sense?!


----------



## Brasart

barteredbride said:


> Hello NEO owners,
> 
> I´ve not really used ´ensemble´patches that much, with multiple instruments spread across the keyboard, from low to high.
> 
> I presume that there must have been some sort of decision from Spitfire regarding the range of each instrument recorded...for example, you won´t have a cello in a really high register, while on the same note, a violin is playing in a low register. Or is this correct?
> 
> Is there a manual with NEO that says what range has been recorded with each instrument?
> 
> I guess with the strings A an B patches it would be something like: (from left to right on the keyboard)
> 
> Bass only, bass with cellos, cellos with violas, violas with violin, violins only.
> 
> Obviously I will go with my ears and what sounds right, but it would be helpful to know if there are certain notes that only contain violas and cellos, so I can layer with other violas and cellos from other libraries.
> 
> Does that make sense?!



I don't remember seeing information regarding how instruments are layed out in ensemble patches, but I could be wrong.

Usually ensemble patches - or at least the way I use them - are much more about looking for a texture than trying to do precise or 'logical' orchestration, I don't think you should worry too much about having "multiples" of the same instrument as long as it sounds good


----------



## jbuhler

barteredbride said:


> Hello NEO owners,
> 
> I´ve not really used ´ensemble´patches that much, with multiple instruments spread across the keyboard, from low to high.
> 
> I presume that there must have been some sort of decision from Spitfire regarding the range of each instrument recorded...for example, you won´t have a cello in a really high register, while on the same note, a violin is playing in a low register. Or is this correct?
> 
> Is there a manual with NEO that says what range has been recorded with each instrument?
> 
> I guess with the strings A an B patches it would be something like: (from left to right on the keyboard)
> 
> Bass only, bass with cellos, cellos with violas, violas with violin, violins only.
> 
> Obviously I will go with my ears and what sounds right, but it would be helpful to know if there are certain notes that only contain say, violas and cellos, so I can layer with other violas and cellos from other libraries.
> 
> Does that make sense?!


It’s more that it’s been recorded to make smooth timbral transitions from low to high. Certain instruments will dominate in their strongest registers but the idea is to avoid noticeable breaks. The strings do this very well. The woodwinds do this reasonably well. And the brass... well the brass don’t do it very well at all especially where the flugelhorn joins in.

Albion One is similar but it breaks down brass and woodwinds into registers and parcels those out to different patches. The brass are divided into three sections that correspond more or less to trumpets, horns, and trombones and tuba. The woodwinds are divided into high and low, overlapping from G2 to A3 (C3=middle C)


----------



## barteredbride

Thanks for both replies - extremely helpful!

I love the sound of the strings and woodwinds, and I know that recording them together rather than seperate, gives us that lovely sound.

But I wish I also could have the option of ensemble and then seperate instruments! 

However, that would be missing the point of the library.


----------



## jbuhler

barteredbride said:


> Thanks for both replies - extremely helpful!
> 
> I love the sound of the strings and woodwinds, and I know that recording them together rather than seperate, gives us that lovely sound.
> 
> But I wish I also could have the option of ensemble and then seperate instruments!
> 
> However, that would be missing the point of the library.


With Neo I wish they gave an ensemble A & B for winds and brass too. Or had flugelhorn in one ensemble and the horneuph and bass trombone in the other; and the saxophones in one ensemble and the other winds in the other. I think it would have made it even more versatile and since SF doesn’t otherwise have flugelhorns or saxes it would not have competed with its other libraries.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

jbuhler said:


> With Neo I wish they gave an ensemble A & B for winds and brass too. Or had flugelhorn in one ensemble and the horneuph and bass trombone in the other; and the saxophones in one ensemble and the other winds in the other. I think it would have made it even more versatile and since SF doesn’t otherwise have flugelhorns or saxes it would not have competed with its other libraries.


do I hear the magic word 'update' somewhere in the world of wishlists?


----------



## jbuhler

Fever Phoenix said:


> do I hear the magic word 'update' somewhere in the world of wishlists?


I have heard rumors of an update with new recordings but not this extensive, unfortunately. Still, if SF is listening, division of the winds and brass into ensembles A&B, and addition of basic percussion and harp would make Neo almost perfect.


----------



## Paul Cardon

jbuhler said:


> I have heard rumors of an update with new recordings but not this extensive, unfortunately. Still, if SF is listening, division of the winds and brass into ensembles A&B, and addition of basic percussion and harp would make Neo almost perfect.


I have a hunch this ain't happening, like I'm pretty certain all this stuff is recorded together, i.e. no way to split what they already have unless they ALSO happened to record everything separately, but nothing like that made it into the product so it's unlikely.


----------



## jbuhler

Paul Cardon said:


> I have a weird hunch we're not getting this, like I'm pretty certain all this stuff is recorded together, i.e. no way to split what they already have unless they ALSO happened to record everything separately, but nothing like that made it into the product so it's unlikely.


I heard a rumor of possible pickup recordings to fix some problems that can’t be otherwise fixed. I agree that it’s unlikely to go beyond that if we even get that. But we can dream...


----------



## barteredbride

I think for me, the easiest way for an update to NEO would be to keep the library as it is, but just add a few new short articulations.

At the moment in the Strings there is:

Pizzicato
Spiccato CS Brushed
Spiccato
In Tundra there was something like 12 short articulations to pick from. Even if Spitfire could add just an extra two: staccato and marcato that would be fab.

With the the winds and brass we have only two shorts:

Marcato
Staccatissimo
Again, a true staccato and a nice tenuto short would be great.


I think the library is lovely and I understand it is complementary to Tundra and to replace Loegria (which actually had a few extra short articulations), but a few extra shorts would be ace.

Is this something you might look into @paulthomson ??


----------



## Jdiggity1

The addition of new samples is not really an 'update' though, is it. That's content you haven't paid for.
On that subject though, apart from Hans Zimmer Strings, has there been a product 'update' that included more sample content which required more recording sessions?
As nice as they'd be, my gut tells me it's an unreasonable expectation.


----------



## jbuhler

barteredbride said:


> I think for me, the easiest way for an update to NEO would be to keep the library as it is, but just add a few new short articulations.
> 
> At the moment in the Strings there is:
> 
> Pizzicato
> Spiccato CS Brushed
> Spiccato
> In Tundra there was something like 12 short articulations to pick from. Even if Spitfire could add just an extra two: staccato and marcato that would be fab.
> 
> With the the winds and brass we have only two shorts:
> 
> Marcato
> Staccatissimo
> Again, a true staccato and a nice tenuto short would be great.
> 
> 
> I think the library is lovely and I understand it is complementary to Tundra and to replace Loegria (which actually had a few extra short articulations), but a few extra shorts would be ace.
> 
> Is this something you might look into @paulthomson ??


I would be most surprised if they added these kinds of details. I doubt we'll even get a breakdown of the wind and brass ensembles into A and B (though it would be nice if we did—and personally I'd prefer the breakdown to the additional shorts). With luck we will have the option of our woodwind longs with and without bacon fry.


----------



## barteredbride

I would of course pay for extra content!

But! Maybe they have recorded shorts that they didn't have time to include in the library on release.




Jdiggity1 said:


> The addition of new samples is not really an 'update' though, is it. That's content you haven't paid for.
> On that subject though, apart from Hans Zimmer Strings, has there been a product 'update' that included more sample content which required more recording sessions?
> As nice as they'd be, my gut tells me it's an unreasonable expectation.


----------



## jbuhler

Jdiggity1 said:


> The addition of new samples is not really an 'update' though, is it. That's content you haven't paid for.
> On that subject though, apart from Hans Zimmer Strings, has there been a product 'update' that included more sample content which required more recording sessions?
> As nice as they'd be, my gut tells me it's an unreasonable expectation.


No, this wouldn't be at all typical. Besides HZS, BBCSO also has some promised extra material. The Solo Strings had the performance legato patches added for violin and cello and they accessed some samples present in the distributed instrument but not initially used. On the other hand, I don't know whether other libraries have had sample fixes made to replace bad samples.

For me the division into A and B ensembles for brass and winds, the addition of basic percussion and harp, are more like a dream, expressing what I think the library would need to be the perfect library of its kind. I have no expectation that these things will be forthcoming.


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## rotho

Pls don’t fix the bacon Spitfire


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## jbuhler

rotho said:


> Pls don’t fix the bacon Spitfire


Rumor is that if it is fixed you will be able to have your long with or without bacon.


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## Harry

SvenE said:


> Thank you Spitfire Audio for introducing me to Snorri Hallgrimson trough his Demo for Neo! I love his track "Avalanche" ..


Also really liked this demo track "Avalanche". Can anyone identify the NEO patch used for the sequence starting around 55 seconds that builds up through the rest of the piece?


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