# Strings Lib comparison: Celli Spiccato (Spitfire, CineStrings, Adagio)



## Enyak (Jan 2, 2014)

Are lib comparisons ever useful? Here's another one!

Test: Celli Spiccato pattern from Michael Kamen's Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves:






And this is the original recording / style I am looking for:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98952466/Kamen_Cellos_Spiccato.flac (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/989 ... ccato.flac)
In the original it's mostly Celli Spiccato at p to mf dynamics with Db on Timpani as accents.

So, this is the current result:

Demo #1: Original Demo: https://soundcloud.com/marc-fl-ssel/sets/cello-spiccato-test-1/s-DvyAh
Demo #2: Adagio only with 40% timing on "Tight" knob: https://soundcloud.com/marc-fl-ssel/cellos-shorts-test-adagio
Demo #3: Albion and Sable isolated: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98952466/Cellos_Spiccato_Albion_Sable_isolated.flac
MIDI: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98952466/Cellos_Spiccato_Test.zip

More userdemos:
CineStrings #1 (Tatu): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1834664/Kesken/Prince%20of%20Thieves%20with%20CS2%20and%20CS2%2BLASS%20Lite%20_A.m4a (updated version)

Spitfire Iceni and Sable (re-peat): http://users.telenet.be/re-peat/KamenSpicc_Sable.mp3

"CStrings" (Cinematic Strings I think) (RiffWraith)
http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/CelloSpicTest.mp3

Cinematic Strings 2 + Albion (spiralbill)
https://soundcloud.com/spiralbill/kamens-cello-spic-testk

Albion + Sable (Ryan)
http://ryan.tronder.net/karyan/mp3/Robin%20Hood%20-%20Spitfire%20test-01.wav

EWQLSO (Vlzmusic)
https://vlzmusic.bandcamp.com/track/cellos-spiccato-test-ewqlso

Hollywood Strings (Jay Asher)
https://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/hs-spiccs

Cornucopia Strings + Adagietto (rottoy)
http://audiour.com/playlist/p5gcjb11

Unknown (josejherring)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R9OghYcycsSnJXVjdTajZlNHc/edit?usp=sharing

VSL Solo and Chamber Cellos/Basses (Arbee)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lfikyykypxx3jgw/Robin%20Hood%20Strings%20Test.wav
Chamber Cellos replaced by DS Cellos (still some Solo Cello mixed in) (Arbee)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vlc38rb37x6d2a3/Robin%20Hood%20Strings%20Test%20DS%20Cellos.wav

Strings only - the first is CS2 + Adagio. The second is Adagio only (Cruciform)
http://soundcloud.com/cruciformwip/celli-test
Original demo:
1. Spitfire Albion + Sable
I used Sable to add a bit more definition but 90% of the sound is from the Albion Celli only Spiccato patch. I also used the Shorts Octave patch to add the initial bass accent. The only possible drawback is that the Albion Celli spiccato patch is at maximum dynamics. It simply won't go beyond mf. I don't think that's really a problem though.

2. CineStrings
I locked the Spiccato articulation and switched to velocity based dynamics. The rhythm itself is intact, but I am not getting the same organic feel here. I think some EQ could help.

3. Adagio
I used the Spiccato Ls art. Sounding pretty organic to me, though not as widescreen and the timbre isn't as nice as in the first example. The rhythm actually gets a bit jumbled here too. That's fixable via a knob in the GUI that tightens the timing at the expense of losing some of the organic sample start.

I want to add Berlin Strings to the demo too, but again I am waiting for the update for now. For the (outdated) style of music I like to write, the choice would be easy.


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## germancomponist (Jan 2, 2014)

Interesting! My vote goes to Spitfire here, but I am sure one can tweak the other libs via EQ to come more close to the original... .

Could you post the midi? I would like to test this with my special private library... .


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## DenisT (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks, lib comparisons are always nice! I really like the first one (Spitfire Albion + Sable).

From my experience, I own Adagio, and the shorts are pretty good. Even if this library is best for emotional music with great legatos and dynamic bowing, the shorts are quite convincing too. I did *a quick demo* 3 weeks ago with shorts only.


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## benmrx (Jan 2, 2014)

+1, thanks for posting this!


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## Enyak (Jan 2, 2014)

All the examples are with the standard mics (Tree for Spitfire, Mix for CineStrings and Adagio) and some added digital tape altering, so the frequencies might be slightly squashed.

To me, the Albion patch is like a magic patch. It is on a completely different level with only 4 RRs (though using triplets and adding Sables 8 RRs diffuses things nicely.) If they can reproduce this kind of material with Mural, I will be thrilled.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 2, 2014)

Enyak, thank you for your thread. Did you use the Tightness control in your Adagio example? If not, why?


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## ProtectedRights (Jan 2, 2014)

On the first spot I liked Spitfire most, but on repeated hearing I like CineStrings more. They have more presence. But these two I guess are a matter of taste. Adagio falls of a little because it is washy.


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## mark812 (Jan 2, 2014)

We surely need more threads like this, thanks. Spitfire is definitely my favorite here. You could post the midi file here so that other people can render it with other libraries (CS 2, Berlin, HS, VSL, Kirk Hunter etc.).


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## Enyak (Jan 2, 2014)

Here is an updated Adagio demo with the Tight knob set to 40%.
https://soundcloud.com/marc-fl-ssel...rc-fl-ssel/sets/cello-spiccato-test-1/s-DvyAh

Sounds better I think.


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## Ryan (Jan 2, 2014)

Listening 13 times now.

Spitfire is the winner. Both Cinestrings and Adagio sound like we used to say way back in 2006-ish: Machine-gun!! 

There is something funny going on with Cinestrings that I don't like.

Oh, wait... New punchline: Cinestrings & Adagio is sooo 2000. YOLO! (Make sure to say it like a 16-year old girl)

Anyway: cool comparison.


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## ProtectedRights (Jan 2, 2014)

@Enyak:

BTW: Did you remove one RR sample of Albion's spiccato? I have one sample with a bow noise or something that - when playing the patch solo - is disturbing.

I also tried with Sonokinetic DaCapo, you can forget that, they only have 2 RRs in the lower velocities, it sounds terrible.


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## Enyak (Jan 2, 2014)

@ProtectedRights
Albion patch is factory, latest version. Did you update?


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## midi_controller (Jan 2, 2014)

Playlist isn't working for me. Did you take it down?


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## ProtectedRights (Jan 2, 2014)

@Enyak

I purchased it in October so I think I got the newest version from the start. Anyway I guess the noise gets much less audible if you add Sable etc.


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## Enyak (Jan 2, 2014)

@midi_controller

My bad. Link should work again.


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## Erik (Jan 2, 2014)

Enyak,

I am afraid that none of your tracks come really very close to the demanding original as you would like to have it yourself I guess (please be sure that it is not my intention at all to offend you here). I will try to explain my point of view. Apart from the spicyness of the original spiccati that I can't find back very much in the used libraries, I miss moreover the very _pushing _crescendo, that I think is so relevant in the original (it is audible but also just simply visible on my screen anyway). All tracks remain basically too _civilized _imo.
Would you mind to make a second version which has that ominous crescendo that shows maybe better what your libraries can do in these circumstances?

I had some nice results sometimes in the past by layering LASS spiccato with other libraries (like VSL, VSL DS or even Session Strings Pro), although LASS isn't always my favorite library, but for this kind of direct and a bit rough sound it suits very well.
I don't use any of the libraries you mentioned, so I even can't try out, but EQ'ing doesn't help very much imo, when the 'essence' for you in a patch isn't there. I mean: if _you _can't find what _you _want, there is not much other thing left than maybe layering, or if you don't like that concept (I know that some people here dislike this very much): just try another libary, if any.

If I can 'help' you with another mockup, send me a PM with a link to your midi file, or publish it just here. Why not give it a try?


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## Enyak (Jan 2, 2014)

@ProtectedRights

Sable adds a light amount of "noise spice" (which COULD be made an integral part of the sound - it's not there yet!) but it has nothing to do with the overall sound shape in this specific example.

Here's the isolated Albion and Sable version if anybody wants to check out the individual components:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98952466/Cellos_Spiccato_Albion_Sable_isolated.flac (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/989 ... lated.flac)
1. Albion only
2. Sable only


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## Cowtothesky (Jan 2, 2014)

My fav is the Spitfire cello in this instance. 

Another trick I use often is to layer a sustained cello with the spiccato cello. I use the sustain as background only, so I mix it low with the spiccato dominant. It just seems to add some glue to the overall sound.

I sure miss Kamen though. I absolutely loved what he brought to film music.


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## Jordan Gagne (Jan 2, 2014)

I dunno, the Albion one is extremely convincing. Blows the other two out of the water.

Also, these kind of threads are exactly what Sample Talk should be, imo. Would love to see more of these.


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## midi_controller (Jan 2, 2014)

From your examples, the Albion + Sable version gets the closest to my ears by far. I'd suggest you also experiment with more layering options, might get you even closer that way.

Have you heard the recording of this piece that was on http://www.amazon.com/Great-Fantasy-Adventure-Album-Kunzel/dp/B000003CZH (The Great Fantasy Adventure Album)? Erich Kunzel and the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra rocked the hell out of it.

Here is a badly compressed youtube version for ya:


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## Erik (Jan 2, 2014)

Jordan Gagne @ Thu 02 Jan said:


> I dunno, the Albion one is extremely convincing. Blows the other two out of the water.
> 
> Also, these kind of threads are exactly what Sample Talk should be, imo. Would love to see more of these.



Agreed!


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## Enyak (Jan 2, 2014)

@Erik

No worries!

There are a couple of failings:
1. There's too much needless bass pressure in my demo. Needs to be exercised and tastefully reigned in.

2. Timings. Right now it's a silly 1 bar pattern repeated ad nauseum, no tempo changes. Needs to be re-recorded for the entire cue. - Constant unquantized Shuffle has to be added and tempo changes.

3. Now this is the part that's actually sample based: The timbre needs to change up more. What needs to be done IMO:
3a. Employ the timestretch patches to slightly change the spiccato lengths
3b. Since Albion simply won't go any stronger in its timbre (not loudness, it can), this is where Sable comes it. Because Sable will go all the way up to FF. IMO a more aggressive mix of Albion + Sable will add that timbral stress interest that can be heared in original.


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## Colin O'Malley (Jan 2, 2014)

For Adagio I would recommend using CLOSE mics. "Feather Spics Ls" for the accent downbeat and than keyswitch to "Spic On Bow Ls" for the following repeated notes. Spic On Bow Ls for the whole phrase would work as well. Tightness knob at about 25%. 

Best, 

Colin


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## Tatu (Jan 2, 2014)

midi_controller @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> Erich Kunzel and the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra rocked the hell out of it.
> 
> Here is a badly compressed youtube version for ya:




Yep, this is the best version ever!

From Enyak's examples, Spitfire was my favourite.


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## SyMTiK (Jan 2, 2014)

my favorite was spitfire, sounded the most natural and organic out of all of them. 

i actually just got albion today, and i LOVE it. the sound is very natural compared to other libraries, and very full. however, i do wish it would just go that one extra dynamic. at full dynamics it feels like it could go just 1 more level. however, this is easily fixed by layering with other libraries. i layered the strings with session strings pro, and it really meshed well. just had to turn the reverb up on session strings and bring the volume down a hair, as session strings is a chamber sized ensemble so its more upfront sounding than albion. layering the shorts especially adds more power


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## Enyak (Jan 2, 2014)

@Colin

thanks for the tips, much appreciated! I will give the Adagio demo a more thorough makeover tomorrow and update the thread with a new version.


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## wesbender (Jan 2, 2014)

The Spitfire example sounds great, though the lack of RR's in Albion compared to Sable sticks out a bit.

It's passages like this that make me wish for a bare minimum of 15-ish RR's in spiccato patches.

Or, at the very least, all libraries should include a 'random RR' setting like LASS has.

Cool example though, thanks for sharing.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 2, 2014)

Enyak, one suggestion: when you update an example, you should add the new link to the original, first post, as many people just go there to listen, then comment, perhaps missing out on new versions you've posted later in the thread.


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## Enyak (Jan 2, 2014)

In the meantime, this is the MIDI (at BPM 140 I think)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98952466/Cellos_Spiccato_Test.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/989 ... o_Test.zip)


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## Tatu (Jan 2, 2014)

Here's something to the mix of comparisons; Cinematic Strings 2 followed by Cinematic Strings 2 and a touch of LASS Lite.

I didn't work more than 10mins on this, so I'd say it's rather far from what someone who knows what he/she is doing could accomplish :oops: 

I didn't use Enyak's MIDI.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1834664/Kesken/Prince%20of%20Thieves%20with%20CS2%20and%20CS2%2BLASS%20Lite.m4a (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/183 ... 20Lite.m4a)

EDIT: BTW, I did not use in the box sound but ran everything through an instance of QL Spaces.

EDIT2: Added a bit updated version:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1834664/Kesken/Prince%20of%20Thieves%20with%20CS2%20and%20CS2%2BLASS%20Lite%20_A.m4a (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/183 ... e%20_A.m4a)


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## apessino (Jan 2, 2014)

Cowtothesky @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> My fav is the Spitfire cello in this instance.
> 
> ...
> 
> I sure miss Kamen though. I absolutely loved what he brought to film music.



Agreed on both points! 8)


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## apessino (Jan 2, 2014)

midi_controller @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> From your examples, the Albion + Sable version gets the closest to my ears by far. I'd suggest you also experiment with more layering options, might get you even closer that way.
> 
> Have you heard the recording of this piece that was on http://www.amazon.com/Great-Fantasy-Adventure-Album-Kunzel/dp/B000003CZH (The Great Fantasy Adventure Album)? Erich Kunzel and the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra rocked the hell out of it.
> 
> Here is a badly compressed youtube version for ya:




So great.... you just cost me 35 bucks, buddy! :mrgreen: 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/ultim ... id80887313


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## midi_controller (Jan 2, 2014)

apessino @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> So great.... you just cost me 35 bucks, buddy! :mrgreen:
> 
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/ultim ... id80887313



They should pay me a commission! :D

I should mention though, the Robin Hood track is, for some strange reason, _not_ included in that bundle. You can get it here though:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/great ... id61234470


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## apessino (Jan 2, 2014)

midi_controller @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> apessino @ Thu Jan 02 said:
> 
> 
> > So great.... you just cost me 35 bucks, buddy! :mrgreen:
> ...



A few extra cool tracks on that one... you are costing me a fortune today. :wink:


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## PavlovsCat (Jan 2, 2014)

Wow, I love these kinds of comparisons.

This is timely, I happened to be discussing string libraries with a developer/musician friend of mine was raving about the Spitfire libraries only yesterday, referring to Spitfire as innovative and under-rated and he actually worked on one of the other libraries in your comparison. So I was eager to check out Spitfire more thoroughly (I own a few of their libraries made for charity that I picked up a couple of years ago, like the original Felt Piano, all very nice). After hearing these libraries side by side, I'd say Spitfire Albion + Sable for the win, absolutely. On the flip side, I found CineSamples harsh, not at all to my liking.


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## benmrx (Jan 2, 2014)

I would LOVE it if someone could post this example using the new Berlin Strings. Any takers?


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## G.E. (Jan 2, 2014)

Wow it's incredible how everyone agrees on the albion version.At this point I'm starting to think that Spitfire is the best in the business and Mural will be a no-brainer.With Albion for general ensembles,Mural for full sections and Sable for divisi,Spitfire will be king.

Sorry,I'm turning into a bit of a Spitfire groupie haha.


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## re-peat (Jan 2, 2014)

*Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.

_


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## quantum7 (Jan 2, 2014)

re-peat @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> 
> _



Nice! I've also been combining Iceni with Sable and have been loving the results.  REALLY excited for Mural to be released.


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## Enyak (Jan 2, 2014)

I forgot about Iceni. Probably because it's the one Albion library I don't have and I always feel a bit sheepish about its overblown section sizes. But man, you made it sing. The mix with Sable is sounding seamless to me.


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## milesito (Jan 2, 2014)

+1 Loving the Spitfire Sable Sound, and can't wait for Mural.


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## Tatu (Jan 2, 2014)

Yeah Spitfire seems to have everything needed "built in". Just remember guys, not all libraries are designed to work that way; straight out of the box. In right hands, magic seems to happen from time to time no matter what tools.


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## PavlovsCat (Jan 2, 2014)

re-peat @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> 
> _



Sounds great. I had to do a search after listening to learn that Iceni was another Spitfire line. Thank you for making and sharing that, Piet.


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## Folmann (Jan 2, 2014)

Comparisons are tricky, especially the unscientific kind. You are layering Spitfire libraries. You are using the loose (ls) articulation from Adagio, which is not really designed for this type of playing style. The tightness knob doesn't really resolve this either. The thing about Adagio is we have a lot more variations of short notes (ex. three types of sordino spiccato for violas) then other libraries.

Watch this video if you want to understand my reasoning better:


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## germancomponist (Jan 2, 2014)

re-peat @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> 
> _



Sounds great!


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## RiffWraith (Jan 2, 2014)

re-peat @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> 
> _



Sounds really, really good.

Check this out, it's another take with CStrings, that differs a bit from Enyak's vers:

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/CelloSpicTest.mp3

Thoughts on that?


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## benmrx (Jan 2, 2014)

re-peat @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> 
> _



Nice, this is my favorite so far...., and in fact the first time I've found myself 'wanting' Iceni.... _thanks alot_ re-peat.... :roll: lol. Out of curiousity, when you're layering Iceni + Sable, are you doing anything for the Violins (and possibly violas) to even them out (since Iceni only has the lower strings)? 

Can't wait for Mural. 

If I can find the time I'll do an Adagietto + CS2 combo later on.


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## germancomponist (Jan 2, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> re-peat @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> ...



I hear that your reverb is doing something special.... .


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## 5Lives (Jan 2, 2014)

Loving the sound of Albion (and the Iceni version too).


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## spiralbill (Jan 2, 2014)

I might as well join the party here.
Here's mine! using CS2 + Albion.
I've been using this combo for a year. They sound fantastic together! :lol: 

https://soundcloud.com/spiralbill/kamen ... spic-testk

Best,
Bill


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## Jordan Gagne (Jan 2, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> re-peat @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> ...



Sounds too ... scratchy? Rough? Almost like the velocity or attack is too high/harsh. The accented notes also sound really strange to me.


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## Jordan Gagne (Jan 2, 2014)

If anyone has Berlin Strings and could try their hand at this ... So far the Albion/Sable one is streets ahead for me.


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## quantum7 (Jan 2, 2014)

Jordan Gagne @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> RiffWraith @ Thu Jan 02 said:
> 
> 
> > re-peat @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> ...



I have to concur....which sucks because I really love Cinesamples. Cinestrings does sound somewhat out of sorts on many clips I have head here on VI. Very strange considering Cinebrass and Cineperc (which I own) sound so incredible to my ears. :?


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## dryano (Jan 2, 2014)

The Spitfire examples sound great on their own, but have nothing in common with the "real" example provided by the OP. That one was done in a smaller room (certainly a scoring stage) and also with a smaller ensemble of Celli.


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## constaneum (Jan 2, 2014)

Nothing beats the real deal. LOL !


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## Ryan (Jan 2, 2014)

RiffWraith @ 3/1/2014 said:


> re-peat @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> ...



Well. There is still that "sound" I don't like. I think it's to thin and to harsh. It does not breath into the room, even tho you got a reverb, it does sound "mechanical".


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## DenisT (Jan 3, 2014)

Hollywood Strings ? Anyone ?


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## Ryan (Jan 3, 2014)

So, As everyone else have jumped into making one.

Libraries: Albion, Perc Redux, Hans zimmer, BML sable, Horns & Low Brass

48/24.wav
http://ryan.tronder.net/karyan/mp3/Robin%20Hood%20-%20Spitfire%20test-01.wav

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F127665969&secret_url=false[/flash]


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## Enyak (Jan 3, 2014)

@DenisT

I have HS. It's actually the best overall Strings library for that fantastic John Williams sound in my mind. Much undervalued here. The Legatos alone are both super-reliable and beautiful. I never quite loved the shorts though, but I am curious too how it would work on this specific example.

I feel like this thread is a bit Spitfire-biased right now, which is why I originally thought about not doing the thread at all. Still, I feel like this "easy" rhythm pattern should now be in the grasp of all major libs. It's not esoteric.

So, I will be giving Adagio and CineStrings a thorough makeover today.


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## Arbee (Jan 3, 2014)

dryano @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> The Spitfire examples sound great on their own, but have nothing in common with the "real" example provided by the OP. That one was done in a smaller room (certainly a scoring stage) and also with a smaller ensemble of Celli.


Yes, this.

.


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## Vlzmusic (Jan 3, 2014)

Again, not in the original track mood and size, but here is an EWQLSO rendition:

https://vlzmusic.bandcamp.com/track/cellos-spiccato-test-ewqlso (https://vlzmusic.bandcamp.com/track/cel ... est-ewqlso)


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## renegade (Jan 3, 2014)

DenisT @ Fri 03 Jan said:


> Hollywood Strings ? Anyone ?



I tried making one using the Silver ed. cellos, but they are way to untight. It would require heavy editing to make them work...maybe gold/diamond has better shorts, or maybe some way to control the tightness?


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## Erik (Jan 3, 2014)

Couldn't stay out of this (I asked for it, didn't I?).

Here's my one:
[mp3]http://www.musesamples.com/VI/Cellos_Spiccati_Test.mp3[/mp3]

Used:
LASS vlc & db; both spiccato
SSP vlc & db: both staccato
VSL DS vlc (desk1) rep_stac
VSL db orchestra (rep_stac)
VSL Epic horns
EOP: medium timpani hits LR


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## jamwerks (Jan 3, 2014)

re-peat @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.


Love that one. Got high hopes for Mural + Sable!!


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 3, 2014)

I'd like to see examples that did not mirror any existing piece.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2014)

Here's Hollywood Strings with a little of QL Spaces "Burbank Scoring Stage".

https://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/hs-spiccs


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## rottoy (Jan 3, 2014)

Add the excellent Cornucopia Strings from Strezov Sampling to the list! :D

I layered them with the Celli from Adagietto.

http://audiour.com/playlist/p5gcjb11


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## DenisT (Jan 3, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Here's Hollywood Strings with a little of QL Spaces "Burbank Scoring Stage".
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/hs-spiccs



Thanks! Pretty good results IMO.


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## Erik (Jan 3, 2014)

re-peat @ Fri 03 Jan said:


> *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> 
> _



Very very good


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## rJames (Jan 3, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Here's Hollywood Strings with a little of QL Spaces "Burbank Scoring Stage".
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/hs-spiccs



I always consider my ears to be really bad. Lots of ringing but also, I just don't listen to or analyze enough orchestral music. But I love to learn and this is a great comparison because it is so direct.

I listened to this and Piet's Spitfire one after the other. The Spitfire room seems to be so much more boomy... not in a bad way.

I noticed on the HZ lib that the tails are short-ish. But the verb is just gorgeous.

The Hollywood Strings seem much more controlled. I'm sure this would work out better for some cues or styles.

But the Spitfire studios (AIR)... wow what an appropriate name... seems to have a very full reverberant spectrum. Thick and wonderful, especially in this limited (spic cellos and basses only) comparison demo.


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## rJames (Jan 3, 2014)

Jordan Gagne @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> RiffWraith @ Thu Jan 02 said:
> 
> 
> > re-peat @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> ...



Is it possible that this whole lib was recorded a little closer to the bridge than most libs to give it that cutting sound? That sound does come in handy. But it is a bit too much at times.

Some of the legatos (in CineStrings) have a loud overtone as if the bow is cutting the string into 2 resonating sections.


----------



## RiffWraith (Jan 3, 2014)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> I hear that your reverb is doing something special.... .



Well, it's definitely helping.... I don't know that it's doing anything "special"...

To those who say it's a bit "scratchy" - I don't necessarily disagree, and I see where you are coming from. However, I like that sound, primarily b/c it helps the celli maintain a presence in the mix, esp. when there is a lot going on. I don't agree that it sounds "thin", however. 

Cheers.


----------



## apessino (Jan 3, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Here's Hollywood Strings with a little of QL Spaces "Burbank Scoring Stage".
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/hs-spiccs



Those sound seriously out of tune to me... is it just me? :shock: 

In my misguided opinion the Sable/Iceni is so much better than any other I have heard so far it actually makes me want to buy those libraries. :D 

I liked the LASS too - the sound is much less refined and "noisy" but they always have nice built in energy which I love.


----------



## mark812 (Jan 3, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> re-peat @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> ...



I'm glad I stayed with CS 2. While I really like CineBrass, I expected more from CineStrings.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2014)

apessino @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Here's Hollywood Strings with a little of QL Spaces "Burbank Scoring Stage".
> ...



It's just you


----------



## renegade (Jan 3, 2014)

DenisT @ Fri 03 Jan said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Here's Hollywood Strings with a little of QL Spaces "Burbank Scoring Stage".
> ...



+1

much better (tighter) than my attempt with the silver ed.!


----------



## maestro2be (Jan 3, 2014)

This example proves a very good case of reality. The ever attempt to get a string section to sound "exactly the same as the live version". Yet failing to do so. Yet, the midi mockup version can sound absolutely stunning, if you put aside the "it's not real, it's a mockup/samples".

Take for instance, for me personally, Repeats is the best of all the other attemps here (only my opinion). That sound has a very full sound and is very nice on the ears. Yet, it sounds absolutely nothing like the real thing (posters original FLAC) other than it crescendo's and attempts to have the same technique/style as the original (which he also follows more closely than anyone else did).

But in terms of pure sound, the rawness of the bows and celli is much more defined in the real recording. In Repeats, you can clearly hear the big room they were recorded in, very near opposite of the OP. Perhaps our desired playback setup affects this greatly in our ability to hear the differences. (Not saying repeat can't hear the differences, only pointing out a general statement for all of us).

While I am intrigued at this exercise very much so, it just goes to prove to me that you can almost get a sound as pleasing as that real demo clip, as long as you are willing to accept it isn't the real thing and you won't ever match it 100%.

I am away from the office right now but I hear a very raw sound of celli in a smaller, very dry controlled room rather than a wet hall. Perhaps a glorified attempt using VSL Dimension Strings inside MIR Pro and adding some adagio or spitfire strings (you need a more dry library, and definitely some divisi size sections to pull of that brighter chamber sound). Will definitely help to start on a close mic setting and try to tame back a little bit of the harshness without losing the detail.

Lastly I would say I think Troels or Colin could probably come pretty close using there sections, esp. with a touch of the divisi's to keep that "raw" sound. The Adagios play more "sloppy" which many times I like. But that comparison here isn't going to cut it. There is no sloppy in that original.

I downloaded a copy and will try this as well this weekend when I get some time. This is a fun and educational exercise for many people. Goes to show you how dramatically different the strings sound and why some of us "own them all" or near all.

Maestro2be


----------



## apessino (Jan 3, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> apessino @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> ...



All right then! Back on my meds I go... 8)


----------



## renegade (Jan 3, 2014)

Is there any excuse for a spiccato sample not to sound "good"? If you have good room, good musicians, the right mics placed at the right places, had a good engenier to mix it, the short notes of a samplelibrary should sound just as "good" as a real recording? Right? Or is noisereduction and other processing destroying some of the good-ness?

One thing I would like to see in the future is that the short notes get tighter the faster you play. Or maybe even better: tightens as you play the phrase. In a section of (professional) players they will quickly during a phrase/pattern find each other, and easily play nice and tight. As it is now tight/not so tight notes just plays acording to RR pattern, which often sounds like the section isn't capable of finding a common tempo.


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## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2014)

renegade @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Is there any excuse for a spiccato sample not to sound "good"? If you have good room, good musicians, the right mics placed at the right places, had a good engenier to mix it, the short notes of a samplelibrary should sound just as "good" as a real recording? Right? Or is noisereduction and other processing destroying some of the good-ness?
> 
> One thing I would like to see in the future is that the short notes get tighter the faster you play. Or maybe even better: tightens as you play the phrase. In a section of (professional) players they will quickly during a phrase/pattern find each other, and easily play nice and tight. As it is now tight/not so tight notes just plays acording to RR pattern, which often sounds like the section isn't capable of finding a common tempo.



It is at first always a conducting thing. 

You have to know what you can do with the sampler on what you will release the library and then you have to counduct the players exactly to get this "Special" samples. A wide field and tricky.... .


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## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > I hear that your reverb is doing something special.... .
> ...



I like your example, too. What I meant with the reverb is its modulation.... .


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2014)

apessino @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > apessino @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> ...



Just teasing. If that is what you hear, that is what you hear.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2014)

renegade @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> DenisT @ Fri 03 Jan said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> ...



BTW, I used the mid mics with a little bit of the vintage/surround mic.


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## Udo (Jan 3, 2014)

maestro2be @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> (...)
> While I am intrigued at this exercise very much so, it just goes to prove to me that you can almost get a sound as pleasing as that real demo clip, as long as you are willing to accept it isn't the real thing and you won't ever match it 100%.
> (....)


I've thought for a long time that sample libs/VIs should be treated and "played" as "instruments" in their own right more often and results judged on the musical impact and artistic value.

Quoting what I said in a post some time ago (slightly paraphrased): "When listening to music, one could probably say appreciation precedes enjoyment. However, one thing is certain, analysing it can totally spoil it. I pity people who don't seem to be able to "switch off' the analytical mode. They always seem to want to figure out what's going on "behind the scenes", to discover "the tricks" and search hard for things that are "wrong" ".

Of course, there's nothing wrong with analyzing a piece of work (or the quality of a VI or lib you're about to buy), but for judging the impact and artistic/musical value, I think that "analytical frame of mind" should be switched off..


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## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2014)

Jay, the EW lib sounds also good!


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jan 3, 2014)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Jay, the EW lib sounds also good!



I am going to ask people to accept that I say this as a user and not an EW employee. (Most will, some will not if past experience holds.)

Conventional wisdom is HS has great legatos but not shorts, but I also love the HS shorts. When I want a grittier sound, I layer Kirk's CS II EXS24 instruments (for some reason, the EXS24 version does this a little better than the Kontakt version, to my ears.)


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## apessino (Jan 3, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> apessino @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> ...



To be clear, I was not implying that HS is out of tune - I know it is not. Hell, I *own* HS and I know it well; it is a great sounding library! I used it exclusively for this (bit rough) experiment last year: https://soundcloud.com/andrea-pessino/v ... a-preludio

With that said, on that clip I heard something funky with the tuning, perhaps "out of tune" is too strong, more like "tuning a bit less precise." It might just be that listening to so many clips one after the other messed with my perception - it would not be the first time. :mrgreen:


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## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2014)

apessino @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> To be clear, I was not implying that HS is out of tune - I know it is not. Hell, I *own* HS and I know it well; it is a great sounding library! I used it exclusively for this (bit rough) experiment last year: https://soundcloud.com/andrea-pessino/v ... a-preludio



Good stuff, Sir! o/~


----------



## impressions (Jan 3, 2014)

There is a berlin string demo which I really liked the spiccato cellos in it.


----------



## apessino (Jan 3, 2014)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> apessino @ Fri Jan 03 said:
> 
> 
> > To be clear, I was not implying that HS is out of tune - I know it is not. Hell, I *own* HS and I know it well; it is a great sounding library! I used it exclusively for this (bit rough) experiment last year: https://soundcloud.com/andrea-pessino/v ... a-preludio
> ...



o-[][]-o Thank you!

I think I could do so much better than this now (it has been a very educational year, thanks also to this forum!) but HS does still sound pretty good to me in that piece. It was Hollywood Strings, Hollywood Brass, Hollywood Wind and EWSO for percussion and some winds, just a bit of Spaces on top - obviously the EW libraries are really easy to use together and the blend perfectly (duh!).

Anyhow, didn't mean to derail the thread... back to the cellos! o[])


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## Arbee (Jan 3, 2014)

To my ears and taste, the LASS/VSL and (edit HS examples worked best (talking just the strings here, not horns/timps). With Spitfire in general I find myself listening more to the room than the actual instrument/samples and wanting for something a bit more "in the face".

.


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## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2014)

Arbee @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> To my ears and taste, the LASS/VSL and Adagio examples worked best (talking just the strings here, not horns/timps). With Spitfire in general I find myself listening more to the room than the actual instrument/samples and wanting for something a bit more "in the face".
> 
> .



I think it is great that we all have different expectations!


----------



## Arbee (Jan 3, 2014)

germancomponist @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> Arbee @ Sat Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > To my ears and taste, the LASS/VSL and Adagio examples worked best (talking just the strings here, not horns/timps). With Spitfire in general I find myself listening more to the room than the actual instrument/samples and wanting for something a bit more "in the face".
> ...


Yes it is, it highlights one fundamental difference for me - that my, very personal, ultimate string sound is a tight studio sound rather than a big concert hall sound which has become so prevalent. An interesting thread for sure. 

Perhaps, being in Australia with less of those glorious old buildings, my ears have attuned themselves differently. Years ago, the sonic euphoria of recording large highly professional string sections in large studios like EMI 301 in Sydney, probably set my compass for life. A different background would have probably given me different preferences.

.


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## DenisT (Jan 3, 2014)

germancomponist @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> Arbee @ Sat Jan 04 said:
> 
> 
> > To my ears and taste, the LASS/VSL and Adagio examples worked best (talking just the strings here, not horns/timps). With Spitfire in general I find myself listening more to the room than the actual instrument/samples and wanting for something a bit more "in the face".
> ...



Absolutely! That's a good thing for developers too :wink:


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## José Herring (Jan 3, 2014)

Give this a go 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R9OghYcycsSnJXVjdTajZlNHc/edit?usp=sharing (Kamen)

Trying to decide if I need new libraries or if I can get away with what I have for a while longer.


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## benmrx (Jan 3, 2014)

josejherring @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Give this a go
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5R9OghYcycsSnJXVjdTajZlNHc/edit?usp=sharing (Kamen)
> 
> Trying to decide if I need new libraries or if I can get away with what I have for a while longer.



I can be daft, but is this example from Hollywood Strings? Gold?


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## José Herring (Jan 3, 2014)

HS Gold, tried it with other libraries but couldn't get them to respond this quickly at all.

I liked the example that Piet posted, but it didn't sound anything like a real orchestra. But, these days it's not like that matters much!  But I liked the tightness of the articulations, so I'm trying to see if I can get it with HS Gold.


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## Arbee (Jan 3, 2014)

A bit late to the party but while everyone else is having a stab at this I thought I'd have a go (thanks for the midi file!). This is VSL Solo and Chamber Cellos/Basses with DB Horns and a VSL Timp in MIR ORF Studio 3 (small room):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lfikyykypxx3jgw/Robin%20Hood%20Strings%20Test.wav

Edit: 

And again with the Chamber Cellos replaced by DS Cellos (still some Solo Cello mixed in), everything else as was:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vlc38rb37x6d2a3/Robin%20Hood%20Strings%20Test%20DS%20Cellos.wav

.


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## Cruciform (Jan 4, 2014)

Also late but doing the exercise for my own benefit, here are two more takes.

Strings only - the first is CS2 + Adagio. The second is Adagio only. Interestingly, mine really don't sound much like the Adagio example in the OP at all.

http://soundcloud.com/cruciformwip/celli-test

Also like to add my vote to say I really like the Sable + Iceni version.

Rob.


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## germancomponist (Jan 4, 2014)

For comparison listen to Mr. Short Notes


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## José Herring (Jan 4, 2014)

Gunther, that example perfectly illustrates a point and is why sometimes I don't get this place. If somebody posted a mockup like that they'd be accussed of too much machine gun, but the orchestra is machine gunning. 

Also, the incedi+ sable version does sound nice but it sounds nothing like a real orchestra which begs the question, are we trying to mock up something that resembles something real, or are we trying to use samples as an isolated art form?


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## AC986 (Jan 4, 2014)

It isn't really machine gunning. 8) But what everyone knows is the huge amount of different tonal, rhythmic and different bowing really great players can do. And where they play on the bow. That example is very near to the frog. :lol: 

There isn't a string sample library available that even comes close to covering what really good string players can do.

Mocking up something that sounds good should be the goal. If people think it sounds like a real orchestra then that's a bonus.


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## Daryl (Jan 4, 2014)

josejherring @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> .... are we trying to mock up something that resembles something real, or are we trying to use samples as an isolated art form?


It's actually a couple of things further than that. Most of the time what people are trying to do is to mimic a recording that has been processed to within an inch of its life. Neither the processing or the recording techniques help something to sound real.

D


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## blougui (Jan 4, 2014)

germancomponist @ Sat Jan 04 said:


> For comparison listen to Mr. Short Notes




What a marvel.
But back in those days, orchestras played in mono, or so it seems  
At least have we stereo/surround mock ups :wink: 
Erik


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## stargazer (Jan 5, 2014)

I really like the re-peat Spitfire version.
Here's another take, also based on Spitfire.
After listening to the original recording from the OP, I added some VSL for detail, trying to create some of the dynamic nuances.
Also a bit of Adagio 'Spicc on bow Tight" in the last couple of bars.

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F127977825&secret_url=false[/flash]


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## Symfoniq (Jan 5, 2014)

Here is a mockup using VSL and MIR Pro:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17334935/Cello%20Spic%20Test.mp3

It was mixed on headphones, so don't be too hard on me. 

EDIT: Here's a version with more of the room:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17334935/Cello%20Spic%20Test%20Room.mp3


----------



## Jordan Gagne (Jan 5, 2014)

Symfoniq @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Here is a mockup using VSL and MIR Pro:
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17334935/Cello%20Spic%20Test.mp3
> 
> It was mixed on headphones, so don't be too hard on me.



My main note is that it sounds like the velocities of the triplets all sound the same, and that it needs a more human-sounding bowing.


----------



## Symfoniq (Jan 5, 2014)

Jordan Gagne @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Symfoniq @ Sun Jan 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a mockup using VSL and MIR Pro:
> ...



Good call. I was in a hurry, used the original MIDI file, and forgot that I had velocity set to CC1. And of course, there was no CC1 data in the MIDI file. I've uploaded a corrected MP3.


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## Vlzmusic (Jan 5, 2014)

Symfoniq - could you please specify which lib was used, and which Mir venue?

Thanks.


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## Symfoniq (Jan 5, 2014)

Vlzmusic @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Symfoniq - could you please specify which lib was used, and which Mir venue?
> 
> Thanks.



Sure thing.

The venue was Teldex in a hybrid reverb setup with MIRacle.

The libraries used were Dimension Strings (cellos), Appassionata Strings (double basses), Percussion (timpani), and Epic Horns.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm getting bored of spiccs - can we move to pizz now?


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## germancomponist (Jan 5, 2014)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> I'm getting bored of spiccs - can we move to pizz now?



Ha ha, we had this already. Maybe we move to drum rolls?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 5, 2014)

Ho! My mistake, then. Who made it to the pizz victor's podium?


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## germancomponist (Jan 5, 2014)

Me, last year or so. And yes, Peat postet some great examples and the best sounding were Spitfire again... . o/~


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## Freds (Jan 5, 2014)

Nice thread!

I didn't see an Albion + LASS light combo which is what I normally use, so here it is:

https://soundcloud.com/freddysheinfeld/ ... fs/s-jvd2t


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## Arbee (Jan 5, 2014)

Has anyone managed to (or could) blend Sable and Dimension Strings? Very interested, especially given the potential room/reverb challenges.

Thanks,

Robert


----------



## Udo (Jan 5, 2014)

Arbee @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> Has anyone managed to (or could) blend Sable and Dimension Strings? Very interested, especially given the potential room/reverb challenges.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Robert


See this post: www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php? ... t=#3759298


----------



## stargazer (Jan 5, 2014)

Arbee @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> Has anyone managed to (or could) blend Sable and Dimension Strings? Very interested, especially given the potential room/reverb challenges.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Robert



This is mostly Sable and Dimension cellos.
After listening to the original, I tried to create a version with less players, less room and a bit softer dynamics. I used a lot of the close mics in Sable.
Anyway, I seldom have a problem with blending libraries due to different rooms.
Sometimes it's the opposite, for example I like blending in a drier lib to add some detail, using it to sort of balance the wet/dry mix.

https://soundcloud.com/swedishstargazer ... e-vsl-8dio

Best,
Hakan


----------



## Arbee (Jan 5, 2014)

Thanks Hakan, I like that blend a lot o-[][]-o 

.


----------



## Imzadi (Jan 6, 2014)

Freds @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Nice thread!
> 
> I didn't see an Albion + LASS light combo which is what I normally use, so here it is:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/freddysheinfeld/ ... fs/s-jvd2t



I bet Albion + only using the solo cello from 8dio Adagio Cello would work too?


----------



## Gusfmm (Jan 6, 2014)

re-peat @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> 
> _



Just catching up now. Listening through my cheap work PC headphones. There is something odd there Piet, you do have a subtle snare in the background marking the rhythmic pattern, don't you?

I thought Jose did a nice job with his HS attempt.


----------



## Gusfmm (Jan 6, 2014)

Symfoniq @ Sun Jan 05 said:


> Sure thing.
> 
> The venue was Teldex in a hybrid reverb setup with MIRacle.
> 
> The libraries used were Dimension Strings (cellos), Appassionata Strings (double basses), Percussion (timpani), and Epic Horns.



Did you EQ the DS Cellos? If not, what instrument profile did you use in MIR for them? They don't quite sound as the DS Cellos naturally sound. I do like and prefer what you did to their out-of-the-box sound BTW.


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 6, 2014)

Gusfmm @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> re-peat @ Thu Jan 02 said:
> 
> 
> > *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> ...



I have heard this too when I listened in my studio but I couldn't believe that Peat would do such things... .


----------



## re-peat (Jan 6, 2014)

A snare? No, no. Honestly. Only Sable (celli and basses), Iceni (celli B), and the Spitfire timpani.
Could what you're identifying as a snare, Gus, perhaps be the earliest of the early reflections of the Iceni celli? You mean that rattling sound centre back, right? That's the Iceni's bouncing off the Lyndhurst walls. 
I assume that's what you mean anyway, cause when I'm searching for some snare-like presence in there, that's the only thing I can find which might, with a lot of imagination and a strange-sounding snaredrum, qualify.

_


----------



## Gusfmm (Jan 6, 2014)

Alright, so will listen again when back in the studio. Yes, there is a tiny bit of delay I feel, and I'm familiar with the Sable sound, but not with Iceni, so it may well be the echo you're referring to.


----------



## Arbee (Jan 6, 2014)

Gusfmm @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> Symfoniq @ Sun Jan 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Sure thing.
> ...


Good question, I agree with you and would be very interested in the answer.

.


----------



## Udo (Jan 6, 2014)

Gusfmm @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> re-peat @ Thu Jan 02 said:
> 
> 
> > *Here's* Sable in combination with the Iceni strings.
> ...


There appears to be something there, faintly, but audible, even for my old ears. Sympathetic resonance of snare wires? Not sure if it would be really noticeable, but, sympathetic rustling/vibrating of music score paper on the stands? (btw, I normally switch off that type of critical analysis when I'm listening to enjoy/experience music  ).

Using HD650 headphones


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## germancomponist (Jan 6, 2014)

re-peat @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> A snare? No, no. Honestly. Only Sable (celli and basses), Iceni (celli B), and the Spitfire timpani.
> Could what you're identifying as a snare, Gus, perhaps be the earliest of the early reflections of the Iceni celli? You mean that rattling sound centre back, right? That's the Iceni's bouncing off the Lyndhurst walls.
> I assume that's what you mean anyway, cause when I'm searching for some snare-like presence in there, that's the only thing I can find which might, with a lot of imagination and a strange-sounding snaredrum, qualify.
> 
> _



Yeah, it sounds like a detuned (down) snare section or something like this. 

Interesting what a room can do soundwise!


----------



## José Herring (Jan 6, 2014)

Here's another one. Just fooling around with the first full orchestral library I ever bought: EWQLSO Gold. It has amazingly thight spicc, one velocity layer, 6x rr. Had to shorten the tail a bit, but in some ways I think it's actually better than HS for this. Though the wicked hall slap back adds an octave overtone, which in some ways sounds pretty cool:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zfs8d7d0p6wa ... e%20EW.mp3


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 6, 2014)

josejherring @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Kamen%20 ... IEfoxLMWJg



Oops, this is what I get when I click on the link:


> Error (403)
> It seems you don't belong here! You should probably sign in. Check out our Help Center and forums for help, or head back to home.


----------



## José Herring (Jan 6, 2014)

Wierd, works perfect here. But I don't often use Dropbox so maybe I have a privacy setting set wrong.


----------



## José Herring (Jan 6, 2014)

Try this link https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zfs8d7d0p6wa ... e%20EW.mp3


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 6, 2014)

josejherring @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> Try this link https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zfs8d7d0p6wa ... e%20EW.mp3



Thanks Sir!

It works and sounds good to my ears. Do u have the other mic positions as well or just these "F" mic position?


----------



## TomMartin (Jan 6, 2014)

re-peat @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> A snare? No, no. Honestly. Only Sable (celli and basses), Iceni (celli B), and the Spitfire timpani.
> Could what you're identifying as a snare, Gus, perhaps be the earliest of the early reflections of the Iceni celli? You mean that rattling sound centre back, right? That's the Iceni's bouncing off the Lyndhurst walls.
> I assume that's what you mean anyway, cause when I'm searching for some snare-like presence in there, that's the only thing I can find which might, with a lot of imagination and a strange-sounding snaredrum, qualify.
> 
> _



I use a lot of Sable and Iceni together as well, and funnily enough, your example sounds the way I like my Sable and Iceni to sound. Definitely nothing odd going on....


----------



## José Herring (Jan 6, 2014)

Just the full mics in Gold. I keep meaning to upgrade, but then so many other good libraries come out. 

I just wanted to show that for those that can't get the latest greatest the old stuff still works well.


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 6, 2014)

josejherring @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> Just the full mics in Gold. I keep meaning to upgrade, but then so many other good libraries come out.
> 
> I just wanted to show that for those that can't get the latest greatest the old stuff still works well.



Yes, a good example for that!


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## Symfoniq (Jan 6, 2014)

Arbee @ Mon Jan 06 said:


> Gusfmm @ Tue Jan 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Did you EQ the DS Cellos? If not, what instrument profile did you use in MIR for them? They don't quite sound as the DS Cellos naturally sound. I do like and prefer what you did to their out-of-the-box sound BTW.
> ...



In the original mix, it's just the Dimension Strings cellos with the "Distant" EQ setting in MIR Pro and the "Clean Low-Mids" EQ setting in the Vienna Suite Equalizer (which I'm demoing right now). In my experience so far, the DS cellos require some taming, but respond well to EQ (as an aside, the "Yesterday" factory EQ setting in Vienna Suite makes me smile). I have the MIR wetness dialed down to .25. The cellos are actually playing both spiccato and staccato at the same time to add some fullness, with the volume reduced on the latter. Finally, the Vienna Suite Compressor is inserted on the Dimension Strings cellos. It's pretty close to the factory default, but I've enabled "fat" mode.

In the wetter mix, there are also Appassionata Strings cellos playing spiccato behind the Dimension Strings cellos.


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## Arbee (Jan 7, 2014)

Symfoniq @ Tue Jan 07 said:


> Arbee @ Mon Jan 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Gusfmm @ Tue Jan 07 said:
> ...


Thanks for sharing, very useful info o-[][]-o 

.


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## renegade (Jan 7, 2014)

...just thought we needed one last:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12948366/Celli%20spic%20mix.wav

Sonic Implants mixed with a touch Sable.


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## germancomponist (Jan 7, 2014)

Ha, the Sonic Implants! Thks for this! I now will listen!


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## argitoth (Feb 22, 2014)

So in terms of timing, what sample libraries could use improvement and which are pretty much spot on?


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## Dracarys (Mar 22, 2014)

Just saw this, Albion sounds great. I have HW strings and I really don't like the short patches, great legatos and sustains though.

Also I'm sure in the right hands all these libraries would sound great, but cool comparison none the less.


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## JanR (Feb 9, 2015)

Hi Guys,

Here is a version using Spitfire BML Mural, and then layered a little bit with EastWest Hollywood Strings in the crescendo. QL Spaces for reverb.

https://soundcloud.com/jan-reijnders-1/ ... -spiccatos

I'm new here.
I stumbled upon this forum researching string library's. I bought a couple and decided to give the Robin Hood Prince of Thieves suite a go since its one of my favourite pieces of music.


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## LoungeLizard96 (Feb 10, 2015)

To those saying CineStrings is crap and unrealistic are wrong.

Spending time shaping the sound with a good EQ, mixing the mic positions will give get rid of any harshness in my experience.

You can't just apply a blanket statement like that when your talking about sample libraries, there are soooo many variables.
All libraries have a different feel to them as you'll know.

Just because Spitfire, out the box, for this particular arrangement works best, doesn't mean it's the best for everything, and that CineStrings sucks.

It's the same as throwing LASS in there out the box, along with Cinematic Strings.
One is designed to work as an out the box solution, the other is far more in depth and takes time to get it to sound right.
You can't compare both examples because it's irrelevant, and you can't say Cinematic Strings is better just because it works for what you're doing straight away.

I think comparisons like this can be useful, but when people start with the whole "that lib sucks, this one is best for everything" basically insinuating that this one comparison seals the fate for the library in every single instance after it, the helpfulness of the thread is lessened, and quite frankly, that view is moronic.


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