# Yoda's Theme (John Williams) - BBCSO Core



## Trinkets' Toad (Dec 9, 2020)

Hi everyone! 
This is my attempt at recreating one of my all-time favorite compositions by John Williams. Please let me know what you think about it.


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## mopsiflopsi (Dec 10, 2020)

Not a pro but comparing to the original, the french horns pitch transitions sound a little bit portamento? I think it's happening with woodwinds too. I'm super new to BBCSO Core too so I don't know if that's just the way it's been programmed. Sounds great overall though!


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## José Herring (Dec 10, 2020)

Trinkets' Toad said:


> Hi everyone!
> This is my attempt at recreating one of my all-time favorite compositions by John Williams. Please let me know what you think about it.



Some really good moments in that. 

There's no helping those horns though and that's not your fault. I'm hoping that at some point they go back in and re-record those samples but then SF risk it not blending with the rest of the library.

The strings and woodwinds would benefit a lot from not relying on the legato as much as you do. Especially when really delicate and exposed.


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## Traz (Dec 10, 2020)

José Herring said:


> Some really good moments in that.
> 
> There's no helping those horns though and that's not your fault. I'm hoping that at some point they go back in and re-record those samples but then SF risk it not blending with the rest of the library.
> 
> The strings and woodwinds would benefit a lot from not relying on the legato as much as you do. Especially when really delicate and exposed.


I've been using Performance Samples Caspian in place of the BBCSO's brass. I think the two libraries work really well together, although it's only horns, trumpets, and trombones so I still use BBCSO for the rest.


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## sinkd (Dec 10, 2020)

This mockup is really impressive. It is easy to forget how far the sample library tools have come. It used to be that the comparison standard was which sounds and production effected the "most realistic" sound, measuring up from "fake" to realistic. We have irrevocably crossed the threshold now and measure in reverse from "real, live orchestra" backwards, as it were. Simply put, one no longer compares sample libraries in terms of aspirational "realism", one compares sample libraries and programming to the real thing. 

Well done, sir!


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## Traz (Dec 10, 2020)

sinkd said:


> This mockup is really impressive.


Most impressive.


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## purple (Dec 10, 2020)

I think you did a pretty good job programming it. I think my biggest gripe is honestly that it feels it's dragging on and lacks the forward momentum of the original performance. The piece is not fast, but I certainly never feel like it's "slow" when I'm listening to it. Just "patient". Leave it to the LSO and JW's conducting skills to achieve that.


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## toddkreuz (Dec 10, 2020)

all the notes are right for the most part, but it just doesnt breathe, or sound alive.
It kinda just plods along. Kudos for taking on Williams.


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## Trinkets' Toad (Dec 11, 2020)

First of all, I want to really thank you all for the honest feedback. I have tried to reproduce the rendition of the piece by the Danish National Symphony Orchestra, which is very different from the original in terms of dynamics and pacing ().


mopsiflopsi said:


> Not a pro but comparing to the original, the french horns pitch transitions sound a little bit portamento? I think it's happening with woodwinds too. I'm super new to BBCSO Core too so I don't know if that's just the way it's been programmed. Sounds great overall though!


Yes I noticed that too, but unfortunately the only thing (as far as I know) that triggers a faster legato transition in brass/woodwinds is how fast you play, so if two notes are a bit farther apart there is no way to trigger the normal legato.


José Herring said:


> The strings and woodwinds would benefit a lot from not relying on the legato as much as you do. Especially when really delicate and exposed.


I agree and I have tried to be as faithful as the original score as I could while still trying to sound convicing. There are some sections (the finale, for instance) where all the strings should play legato and I have chosen to use legatos only for the first violins as legato transitions (recorded at mp/mf I think) tend to sound very artificial at such low dynamics. But I guess we could not pretend legato multiple round robins and dynamic layers at this price (maybe it could have been nice to include something more in that regards in the pro version).


purple said:


> The piece is not fast, but I certainly never feel like it's "slow" when I'm listening to it. Just "patient". Leave it to the LSO and JW's conducting skills to achieve that.


The version I was referencing is much slower than the original and that, along with the fact that I am not a master in midi programming, is probabily the reason why it feels slow. The tempo-track is adapted from that audio file, I wouldn't dare conducting it myself.


Gene Pool said:


> The horns would only slur some notes within this type of phrase, but would otherwise use legato-tongue.


I see that and I wish there was an option in BBCSO to activate legato-tongue when playing notes that are farther apart than a few milliseconds, I really don't know why they dindn't implement something as they did with the strings (high velocities trigger fast legato and slow velocities trigger slurred legato/portamento).


toddkreuz said:


> all the notes are right for the most part, but it just doesnt breathe, or sound alive.
> It kinda just plods along. Kudos for taking on Williams.


I have tried to avoid that by all means, I am sincerly sorry if the final result sounds lifeless. Maybe I should have referenced the original track.


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## Brasart (Dec 11, 2020)

I feel the added iZotope Vinyl plugin is way too strong, you can hear the pitch being all wavy on sustained notes, otherwise it's a fantastic mockup!


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## MGdepp (Dec 11, 2020)

I think this is the best this library can sound - which is pretty good! But I am sure you can improve the mockup by adding in other libraries. Would be interesting to hear! Great work!

Only a few things to nitpick: Some balance problems, here and there a trombone in the wrong timbre regarding its intended dynamic (probably due to to few dynamic layers) and wrong articulations (the legato as already mentioned and other legatos as well). I think all of these are limitations of the library being used.


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## Trinkets' Toad (Dec 11, 2020)

Brasart said:


> I feel the added iZotope Vinyl plugin is way too strong, you can hear the pitch being all wavy on sustained notes, otherwise it's a fantastic mockup!


I wanted to make it feel like a 70s recording but I have definitely overused it.


MGdepp said:


> I think this is the best this library can sound - which is pretty good! But I am sure you can improve the mockup by adding in other libraries. Would be interesting to hear! Great work!


The idea was to see how far one can go with this specific all-in-one package (which is now pretty cheap) but I will definitely try to mock it up with different and more detailed libraries.

Anyway, your comments are really appreciated and I honestly did not expect to receive so many replies. I am learning a lot by reading them and I also see that most of you were able to spot problems that I have overlooked, so, again, thank you very much.


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## Vesuvius (Dec 11, 2020)

Trinkets' Toad said:


> Hi everyone!
> This is my attempt at recreating one of my all-time favorite compositions by John Williams. Please let me know what you think about it.



I think overall this is great. Although, I do agree with a lot of the other feedback. I do have a question unrelated to the sonic quality, but rather related to the video. I know absolutely nothing about video editing. I was wondering if you could explain how you got the effects you did and the angles on your screen capture?


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## Trinkets' Toad (Dec 11, 2020)

Vesuvius said:


> I think overall this is great. Although, I do agree with a lot of the other feedback. I do have a question unrelated to the sonic quality, but rather related to the video. I know absolutely nothing about video editing. I was wondering if you could explain how you got the effects you did and the angles on your screen capture?


Thank you! I have recorded the screen with OBS studio and used Adobe Premiere's basic 3d tool that lets you modify (and animate by setting keyframes) the perspective of the video


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## Vesuvius (Dec 11, 2020)

Trinkets' Toad said:


> Thank you! I have recorded the screen with OBS studio and used Adobe Premiere's basic 3d tool that lets you modify (and animate by setting keyframes) the perspective of the video


Awesome. Thanks!


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