# Sonuscore Orchestra Complete 2 or BBC Core



## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

Hello all 
It is one of those threads again. I would like to please ask for your advise.
I am trying to decide on my "first" orchestral library and it boils down to BBC core versus Sonuscore The Orchestra Complete 2.
I already have Kirk Hunter Diamond, got it for 49$. I have NI Komplete 13 (which have strings etc.). I have spitfire LABS (free) and BBC Discover and Layers (the free instruments), and The Orchestra Essentials by Sonuscore.
I am primarily looking to arrange music similar to the old final fantasy games (7-8-9), so the symphonic side, but would also like to have the ability to make "epic-trailer" music.
From what I've gathered I am leaning towards Orchestra Complete 2, although I am wondering: is it possible to make "intimate"/magical, calm music with that package, in a similar way to BBC Core (considering I already have the above instruments)? I do not have professional experience with producing music, it's more of a hobby. I understand how to layer instruments and such (in a simple way), I just feel Sonuscore would help me a lot and sound better than what I layer myself.. I do not know music theory and that much about articulations, although I understand more is better for expression. Still, is the articulations in Sonuscore enough?
Also, I was thinking to turn off the reverb on sonuscore orchestra and use my own reverb, as I think it would sound better, and some EQ to clear it up a bit.

As an example, would I be able to make something "similar" to this: 

Just would like to hear your thoughts please. Thank you!


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## Owen Smith (Nov 12, 2021)

I can't compare to BBC Core as I don't have it, but you can definitely create intimate, magical music with The Orchestra Complete 2. It even has a number of "magical" and "intimate" presets that have soft strings, harp, woodwinds or choir etc. The nice thing is that you can start with one of the presets and tweak it to what you want. I sometimes just play with it to create soft presets with arcs in the string dynamics and harp behind. To me that Orchestra Complete 2 sounds pretty good on its own and I think you can do a lot with it. You just probably would use other libraries for your melody and wouldn't want to use the same preset during the whole song or it would get too repetitive. I imagine that BBC Core sounds even more convincing and has better individual articulations that TOC 2. The workflow would be very different though. With TOC 2 you can quickly get orchestrated patterns and inspiration, whereas BBC Core is more a traditional set of instruments that you would compose with. I'm not a great orchestral composer so TOC 2 helps me a lot to get started, get inspired, or just to add extra life and realism (I realize this is subjective) to something I've already written. Often TOC2 doesn't come through as the main melodic library, but helps set the orchestral texture, rhythm, and mood. Another library that is really good for intimate and magical writing is Symphobia 3 Lumina. That library is really beautiful and is designed for fantasy/magical writing. It isn't quite as easy to use as TOC 2, but has great soloists, textures, orchestral chords, sound effects, etc. I believe it will be getting a nice update soon.
All this to say, both TOC 2 and BBC Core seem like great options to me. However, the workflow would be different and the individual quality of each articulation would probably be better in BBC Core. TOC2 is designed to be a compact library, but has lots of good sounding articulations, excellent presets, midi export, and is really fun to use. I often use TOC 2 just for the harp patterns, percussion, etc because they sound good and are quick to incorporate into what I'm writing. It sounds like you are a little like me in terms of music theory so I think TOC 2 would be more immediately useful. Down the road you still will probably find yourself wanted other libraries, but as a starter I think it is pretty good.
I'm in gradschool and don't get much time to compose so I don't have as many examples as I'd like of the intimate style use, but here are some where I've used TOC 2:

Here the strings and woodwind patterns (coming in around 0:30) are directly from The Orchestra (before TOC). The main flute for melody is Claire Alto Flute:


In this one you can here TOC come in at around 1:22 with the timpani, harp, and string ostinato. It sits in the background a bit behind Emotional Cello and solo clarinet from Symphobia 3.



This one is a bit more upbeat and less intimate, but I added in TOC 2 at 1:21 and it provides all the string ostinato, drums, and brass. I literally chose a couple of presets that went well together, tweaked them, muted a few instruments, and adjusted panning and volume and it really came to life:



Edit: looking back at your list of libraries I noticed you have The Orchestra Essentials. I don't know what features are not included in that, but I imagine it gives you a taste of what TOC 2 can do. You can make both intimate and epic music with TOC 2. In terms of the music from the video you shared, I feel like you could create the rhythmic and background orchestral components with TOC 2 (string ostinatos, orchestral percussion, ect), but the fast melody lines and solo instruments would be more difficult to achieve with TOC 2 and might be more easily attained with BBC Core or another library.


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

Hello Owen,

Thank you for the reponse!
From what I gather as well from other sources and your answer, I think TOC2 will be the best one for me. I think NI Komplete and Kirk Hunter can help me with fast melody lines etc. but I guess I will have to experiment a bit. Thank you.


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## Owen Smith (Nov 12, 2021)

cyberboycoolen said:


> Hello Owen,
> 
> Thank you for the reponse!
> From what I gather as well from other sources and your answer, I think TOC2 will be the best one for me. I think NI Komplete and Kirk Hunter can help me with fast melody lines etc. but I guess I will have to experiment a bit. Thank you.


You're very welcome! Yeah I think you should be able to create melodic lines with the libraries from Komplete. Keep in mind, that you will always be tempted to get new libraries that will make things easier or achieve a sound that you don't think you could get out of your current libraries. I've accrued a number of libraries in this pursuit and although I like the ones I have, I think I would have been better of sticking with a couple and really learning how to get the best out of them. TOC 2 has a lot to offer and as a non-professional composer (like myself), you can really go a long way with it. I suggest really digging into it and your other libraries and trying to avoid the never ending pursuit of instant musical gratification (aka GAS). Cheers!


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

Got it, thanks. S_ide question ; if I get both, would they blend well? Like fast strings or woodwind from BBC for melody? Or would it be overkill? (GAS is happening right now) 😅_


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

Actually, forget the last question. I realized I can automate volume and add reverb/delay for quicker attack etc. I'm more of a c# game programmer so it's not to complicated I think  thanks for your time!


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## dhmusic (Nov 12, 2021)

cyberboycoolen said:


> Hello all
> It is one of those threads again. I would like to please ask for your advise.
> I am trying to decide on my "first" orchestral library and it boils down to BBC core versus Sonuscore The Orchestra Complete 2.
> I already have Kirk Hunter Diamond, got it for 49$. I have NI Komplete 13 (which have strings etc.). I have spitfire LABS (free) and BBC Discover and Layers (the free instruments), and The Orchestra Essentials by Sonuscore.
> ...



Lmao I've spent the last 5 days working on this exact track


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## RogiervG (Nov 12, 2021)

Wrong thread though! 
Should be placed in sample talk


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> Lmao I've spent the last 5 days working on this exact track


Nice!! TOC2?


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> Wrong thread though!
> Should be placed in sample talk


Sorry 🙄☺️


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## dhmusic (Nov 12, 2021)

cyberboycoolen said:


> Nice!! TOC2?


No but I do have it. Was considering selling it actually.

I have a roughly programmed sketch using Orchestral Tools Berklee Symphonic Orchestra while I focus on the choirs, which takes up the bulk of the work tbh. Once I'm done with those I'll go over it with the rest of my OT stuff.


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> No but I do have it. Was considering selling it actually.
> 
> I have a roughly programmed sketch using Orchestral Tools Berklee Symphonic Orchestra while I focus on the choirs, which takes up the bulk of the work tbh. Once I'm done with those I'll go over it with the rest of my OT stuff.


Sorry for having a millions questions, but do you think it would be possible to come close to what you have done, with TOC2?


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## dhmusic (Nov 12, 2021)

cyberboycoolen said:


> Sorry for having a millions questions, but do you think it would be possible to come close to what you have done, with TOC2?


I think so since a lot of the articulations are covered in both. You won't be able to achieve as much subtlety since Berklee SO is a much more detailed library. It might be more noticeable on other compositions but I think I could basically do what I've sketched so far.

If you mean some of my posted mockups it would fall short by quite a bit on the more detailed passages.

It all comes down to how much effort you want to exert and how well you handle the growing pains of more detailed libraries. I think for starting out TOC2 could be a really inspiring library and it really does have a lot to offer. I don't use it anymore, but I actually like the sound of it out of the box quite a bit.

I will say there is a strong preference for Spitfire on this board which means you'll have a lot of opportunities to engage with other members, so that might be something to consider.


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> I think so since a lot of the articulations are covered in both. You won't be able to achieve as much subtlety since Berklee SO is a much more detailed library. It might be more noticeable on other compositions but I think I could basically do what I've sketched so far.
> 
> If you mean some of my posted mockups it would fall short by quite a bit on the more detailed passages.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot  I was referring to the final fantasy stuff you made. I think TOC2 will do me fine then, until I "grow up" 🤔😊 I just hope they make a woodwind expansions, like they did horns of hell and strings of winter. thank you all for your suggestions.


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## dhmusic (Nov 12, 2021)

cyberboycoolen said:


> Thanks a lot  I was referring to the final fantasy stuff you made. I think TOC2 will do me fine then, until I "grow up" 🤔😊 thank you all for your suggestions.


You bet! Glad to help.


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## mybadmemory (Nov 12, 2021)

I have no experience of TOC2, but I do love both Final Fantasy and BBCSO. You can hear a few mock-ups made with Core in my signature.


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I have no experience of TOC2, but I do love both Final Fantasy and BBCSO. You can hear a few mock-ups made with Core in my signature.


Beautiful work 👌


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

Another question please. Is it possible to load a custom sample (for example Kirk hunter woodwinds) into the TOC2 engine/overwrite the ones used by default? I have the full version of kontakt and heard it can be used to edit instrument patches.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 12, 2021)

You can’t. What you can do is export the MIDI to your DAW and have another Kontakt library play a particular MIDI track.


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 12, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> You can’t. What you can do is export the MIDI to your DAW and have another Kontakt library play a particular MIDI track.


Ok understood. Thank you


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## dhmusic (Nov 12, 2021)

cyberboycoolen said:


> Another question please. Is it possible to load a custom sample (for example Kirk hunter woodwinds) into the TOC2 engine/overwrite the ones used by default? I have the full version of kontakt and heard it can be used to edit instrument patches.


You can toggle "send MIDI to outside world" in kontakt. It can be finicky but I managed to get it to work at some point. you can then send the scripted MIDI from each channel to another instrument track in your DAW


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 13, 2021)

dhmusic said:


> You can toggle "send MIDI to outside world" in kontakt. It can be finicky but I managed to get it to work at some point. you can then send the scripted MIDI from each channel to another instrument track in your DAW


Ok, that works for me. Thanks


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## cyberboycoolen (Nov 13, 2021)

Hello again all. This seems very fishy, but do anyone think it's legit? TOC2 for 15 usd.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384487695225?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item598540a379:g:PDoAAOSw2d9hh-EY&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSQuF9OYLb3wphIAOfpJK8RnwOWJVBtKzpxXeWC85OnX%252F15hhUT5NDvSk4hSJkSHiBDFIxbgyVyLLJk%252F5Sh9D9bmXUcsmDOoMNOKvv%252B6qTN9xyaG3BS4lQKSCNs6dCSLzMcK6pXuweRlymtCGoZr%252BkK2PtovD1yNaYHpl5g2FYN5I12MtOnoDLqLMs0kg%252FFKRSlF0L0T%252F2Q9O147GW0szVL%252BgKCo573U9olV1TLYjTU5MiHJqIrsk91zJI3Waytwi5TRcR%252F4sLQgY3WSFYDw3Bud2PFVuGUhKqoeQro0I4TUwsJitG8cKyITqr5wDjnZJCmfNXWZ4l%252FBvSS4QNwBQN8ASCR4rDfLFrECwmbZR52kSMHNzzLjetMBRAhp18yjwnoYUUMN8Axvz%252FO05JPz9UMzfzzuetoTHXcro1drXuw7pJs5KEuvF%252F2%252FTj5azsX7Cd6IsaEkEI1oSNGP6uj8f%252Fw78aZ3bGIMcV99WsLkhnHzReX4Snj50Mq4tOJX7MQ%252B0z5lrLypm7SYkzYNpYdINgBf42oO1egWvQZaMuZ76UMW9v0P16HNf03xBen20L33kP2600nSat%252BXfusxpjs2reTa2IVd%252BktXTQoOqEIPyPL%252FchAh%252BWws0UO%252FLeQfFhXFkULNaet3mues9HUn6Lb1hE5YxdIYZRFUZRpTUs0iqe0ZC%252Fqj5H2jV%252FDxaiqsSezHFL1jowhfeP18TnWUny39vK4g3n8Q7j0GA1sxOBMbIwOIVIfH6QaXOC7YwjjM14Rs2pt0LYatOSQr8Kwo0xftDjDzaHynapNAS3pzv9itxXAl8hM6SCj%252BaOadGQs62AAo1rktArnTqBifrt6e9wE9BA6g%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMps2_pKNf


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## dhmusic (Nov 13, 2021)

cyberboycoolen said:


> Hello again all. This seems very fishy, but do anyone think it's legit? TOC2 for 15 usd.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384487695225?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item598540a379:g:PDoAAOSw2d9hh-EY&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSQuF9OYLb3wphIAOfpJK8RnwOWJVBtKzpxXeWC85OnX%252F15hhUT5NDvSk4hSJkSHiBDFIxbgyVyLLJk%252F5Sh9D9bmXUcsmDOoMNOKvv%252B6qTN9xyaG3BS4lQKSCNs6dCSLzMcK6pXuweRlymtCGoZr%252BkK2PtovD1yNaYHpl5g2FYN5I12MtOnoDLqLMs0kg%252FFKRSlF0L0T%252F2Q9O147GW0szVL%252BgKCo573U9olV1TLYjTU5MiHJqIrsk91zJI3Waytwi5TRcR%252F4sLQgY3WSFYDw3Bud2PFVuGUhKqoeQro0I4TUwsJitG8cKyITqr5wDjnZJCmfNXWZ4l%252FBvSS4QNwBQN8ASCR4rDfLFrECwmbZR52kSMHNzzLjetMBRAhp18yjwnoYUUMN8Axvz%252FO05JPz9UMzfzzuetoTHXcro1drXuw7pJs5KEuvF%252F2%252FTj5azsX7Cd6IsaEkEI1oSNGP6uj8f%252Fw78aZ3bGIMcV99WsLkhnHzReX4Snj50Mq4tOJX7MQ%252B0z5lrLypm7SYkzYNpYdINgBf42oO1egWvQZaMuZ76UMW9v0P16HNf03xBen20L33kP2600nSat%252BXfusxpjs2reTa2IVd%252BktXTQoOqEIPyPL%252FchAh%252BWws0UO%252FLeQfFhXFkULNaet3mues9HUn6Lb1hE5YxdIYZRFUZRpTUs0iqe0ZC%252Fqj5H2jV%252FDxaiqsSezHFL1jowhfeP18TnWUny39vK4g3n8Q7j0GA1sxOBMbIwOIVIfH6QaXOC7YwjjM14Rs2pt0LYatOSQr8Kwo0xftDjDzaHynapNAS3pzv9itxXAl8hM6SCj%252BaOadGQs62AAo1rktArnTqBifrt6e9wE9BA6g%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMps2_pKNf


Don't do it


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