# Goldsmith's Music for Orchestra or How I learned to love serialism



## dcoscina (May 9, 2018)

When I was studying music in university, the Boulezian styled highly intellectualized approach was in its twilight years. I was constantly at odds with my prof and fellow students because I liked to write tonal music. Being exposed to Varese or Schoenberg or Xenakis was alien to me. It sounded like unintelligible chaos to the 20 year old that I was in the late '80s. But somewhere along the line, I gained an appreciation for dodecaphonic writing as well as free atonalism, use of dissonance & textural effects as opposed to traditional forms/structure/harmonic frameworks. I attribute the gradual change to one composer: Jerry Goldsmith. I dare say no other composer had the same impact on me both as a listener and composer myself. He was able to channel elements of modernism in a way that was relatable. Scores like Planet of the Apes, with its flute tone row and Octandre-styled percussion sounded exciting and fresh. Alien contrasted late 19th century Romanticism with the harsh 20th century sonorities so perfectly. Even more traditional scores like Papillon had cues which unleashed some of the most violent passages I'd heard ("New Friend" and "Antonio's Death") in a way that few other composers could approach (though Alex North's Dragonslayer was also pretty avant garde in its day.

Below is a link to Goldsmith's concert work Music for Orchestra from a Telarc disc that came out in 1999 which also featured Jerry's Christus Apollo cantata. It is also a stunning work. I hope that some of you younger composers who might not have ever heard these works try to explore them with an open mind. Goldsmith's concert works are actually very well structured and play well. It's a common challenge among film composers to straddle both realms because film governs the structure and without it, there is the danger of meandering. Anyhow, enjoy!


----------



## wbacer (May 9, 2018)

Mike Verta is doing a class this Friday on the Music of Jerry Goldsmith, you may want to check it out.
NEW CLASS!
The next Masterclass will be
JERRY GOLDSMITH
Friday, May 11th at 7pm PST
$30
mikeverta.com


----------



## dcoscina (May 9, 2018)

wbacer said:


> Mike Verta is doing a class this Friday on the Music of Jerry Goldsmith, you may want to check it out.
> NEW CLASS!
> The next Masterclass will be
> JERRY GOLDSMITH
> ...


yeah I'm down with that. I've studied Goldsmith for years (if not decades since I'm close to 50 years old). I'd be interested to hear what Mike has to say about him.


----------



## dcoscina (May 9, 2018)

looks like his site is down...


----------



## CT (May 9, 2018)

I like this piece a lot; thanks for reminding me about it so I could have another listen after a number of years. 

I try to give dodecaphonic/serial music as fair a shot as everything else. Although it doesn't appeal to me as a composer, as a listener, there's a decent amount to enjoy if you can cut through some of the more pompous and eggheaded pieces and composers. 

Like Berg, I think Goldsmith's strength with writing in this way was not being too dogmatic about the method. The music is allowed to breath and isn't constricted by the system.

If I were going to adopt one of these more process-driven approaches to composition, it would be spectralism over serialism. I could get lost in that stuff.


----------



## wbacer (May 9, 2018)

dcoscina said:


> looks like his site is down...


Yah, I saw that, Mike's rebuilding his site so hopefully it will be back up soon.

Omni Music is still selling "Total Recall" Full Orchestral Score but you probably already have a copy. That's a masterclass in and of itself.
http://www.omnimusicpublishing.com/TotalRecall.html


----------



## ptram (May 10, 2018)

miket said:


> If I were going to adopt one of these more process-driven approaches to composition, it would be spectralism over serialism. I could get lost in that stuff.


Careful, however. As trendy as spectralism can still be, it uses even more processes than boulezian serialism. With the additional constraints of using the harmonic series as the starting point.

Paolo


----------



## SergeD (May 10, 2018)

Funny, I felt that this piece is so close to Concerto For Orchestra from Bartok, google about it, and find your post here 

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=60027&archive=0


----------



## Rodrig Vourot (May 13, 2018)

In fact, Mr.Goldsmith is and will be an excellent composer, he has very good works. On the other hand there are "transmuted" styles later and earlier that are still more of the same. In fact there is a work that equally draws my attention to the progress of the 3rd Symphonie of Schnittke, I believe that after these there have continued to be later transmutations by other composers and musicians.


----------



## ptram (May 14, 2018)

Interesting how Schnittke was a film composer as well. Both him and Goldsmith have been eclectic contemporary composers, with a different balance of success (Goldsmith better known as a film composer, Schnittke as a concert one).

Paolo


----------



## dcoscina (Feb 17, 2021)

SergeD said:


> Funny, I felt that this piece is so close to Concerto For Orchestra from Bartok, google about it, and find your post here
> 
> http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=60027&archive=0


Hmmm, I'm not hearing it. I get more of a sense of Varése's music like Arcana or Ameriqués

I know the Bartok concerto really well and it's just exploiting the same timbre and even tonality to my ears.


----------



## SergeD (Feb 18, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Hmmm, I'm not hearing it. I get more of a sense of Varése's music like Arcana or Ameriqués
> 
> I know the Bartok concerto really well and it's just exploiting the same timbre and even tonality to my ears.


You're absolutely right, it's not really related to the Bartok concerto. Probably I ate scrambled eggs that day


----------



## dcoscina (Feb 18, 2021)

SergeD said:


> You're absolutely right, it's not really related to the Bartok concerto. Probably I ate scrambled eggs that day


haha, no worries. Goldsmith was very much influenced by Bartok throughout his career and parts of Freud sound remarkably close to Music for Strings Percussion and Celeste. A part of Total Recall takes inspiration from the Miraculous Mandarin while lots of TR come from the Concerto For Orchestra's use of quartal harmony and angular lines.


----------



## Bollen (Feb 18, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I attribute the gradual change to one composer: Jerry Goldsmith


For me it was Ligeti! Although Herrmann deserves some credit too...!


----------



## dcoscina (Feb 18, 2021)

Bollen said:


> For me it was Ligeti! Although Herrmann deserves some credit too...!


Right now it's all about Bartok and Varése for this guy here... And Goldsmith by virtue of association.


----------



## marclawsonmusic (Feb 23, 2021)

This is amazing music. I still have so much to learn about 20th century harmony, but it's really freeing... at least that's what I'm learning.


----------



## dcoscina (Feb 23, 2021)

marclawsonmusic said:


> This is amazing music. I still have so much to learn about 20th century harmony, but it's really freeing... at least that's what I'm learning.


That’s what I’m enjoying about the mid 20th century music. It inspires me to reach outside my normal lexicon and pursue different avenues. When I listen to Bartok or Ravel or Mahler, I think there are infinite possibilities in music.


----------

