# $3100 Mac Pro 2013 64gb Ram - too good to be true?



## hansandersen (Jan 1, 2019)

Just had a look at this site and it seriously looks like a scam. Has anyone from here ever bought anything through that site?

Obviously this Mac Pro is refurbished.

https://create.pro/configure_macpro61?currency=USD


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## colony nofi (Jan 1, 2019)

My scammy senses dont tingle with this one - it seems *about* right. Cheaper than apple for sure, but I've seen a bunch of mac pro's going cheap in second hand circles recently which wouldn't put this out of the realm of possibility.
I find it VERY interesting how the different models are so close together in price (various chips!) That seems odd.
Maybe give them a call?


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## rhd1607 (Jan 1, 2019)

Happy New Years!!

You can probably find a better deal on flea-bay. I just purchased the same 10 core (3GHZ), 1TB SSD, D700 Graphic Card, 64GB Ram for $2800. This machine with these specs is pretty bad ass.

Found a few options for you.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro-2-7GHz-Xeon-12-Core-64GB-1tb-SSD-AMD-FIREPRO-D500-APPLECARE-2020/273624772444?hash=item3fb54eaf5c:g:S~IAAOSwb6dahwdO:rk:5:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mac-Pro-6-...h=item2f291d7155:g:BLwAAOSwZB9aMfNw:rk:2:pf:0

Hope this helps!


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## Sami (Jan 1, 2019)

I do not get tired of saying it: why anyone would spend over 3k on a computer 5 years old is completely beyond me..


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## Jdiggity1 (Jan 1, 2019)

Blessed be the fruit


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## hansandersen (Jan 5, 2019)

rhd1607 said:


> Happy New Years!!
> 
> You can probably find a better deal on flea-bay. I just purchased the same 10 core (3GHZ), 1TB SSD, D700 Graphic Card, 64GB Ram for $2800. This machine with these specs is pretty bad ass.
> 
> ...


$2800? What a steal lol


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## Damarus (Jan 6, 2019)

Sami said:


> I do not get tired of saying it: why anyone would spend over 3k on a computer 5 years old is completely beyond me..



This. Not all processors are created equal, friends.


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## Daniel James (Jan 6, 2019)

I got my Macs from there before. Haven't had any issues.



Sami said:


> I do not get tired of saying it: why anyone would spend over 3k on a computer 5 years old is completely beyond me..



Because 5 years on its still a solid machine.

-DJ


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## Soundhound (Jan 6, 2019)

2013 mac pros have been dropping in price steadily and it has increased over the last year. I'm solidly in the 2018 mac mini vs 2013 mac pro quandary at the moment. Don't know if I'll make the move before we see what the 2019 Mac Pro turns out to be. Though once it is released, I'll probably wind up with one of those two solutions since I expect the 2019 mac pro to cost the same as a late model sedan.


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## Damarus (Jan 6, 2019)

Daniel James said:


> I got my Macs from there before. Haven't had any issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree. It holds up very well for its age.

The problem is the price. If you need to buy something right now, 2-3k for a machine that has 5 year old technology. The i7 mac mini or iMac is arguably a better choice if OP cant wait for the Mac Pro refresh.


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## Daniel James (Jan 6, 2019)

Soundhound said:


> 2013 mac pros have been dropping in price steadily and it has increased over the last year. I'm solidly in the 2018 mac mini vs 2013 mac pro quandary at the moment. Don't know if I'll make the move before we see what the 2019 Mac Pro turns out to be. Though once it is released, I'll probably wind up with one of those two solutions since I expect the 2019 mac pro to cost the same as a late model sedan.



Unless you are desperate to upgrade, I would just hold out. Make the jump when you HAVE to. When that next huge gig comes around. Because the new macs will not be cheap, and if you are upgrading it sohuld be because you need to take a step forward. If its all still working fine, just wait until you HAVE to upgrade, then by then the cost might have come down a little. 

Don't do what I did and buy a new machine because you could at premium price, then do work you could have done on your old machine for a couple years before you finally get to utilize all the extra horsepower, to realise the machine is now worht much less than what you paid.

Thats one of my new years resolutions.... "Do I need it RIGHT NOT" if not I wait till I do or its on a huge sale.

-DJ


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## Soundhound (Jan 6, 2019)

Spot on, Daniel. I am guilty of this with sample libraries for sure, same way I was buying too many guitars in the 2000s but played my favorite strat 90% of the time. But then I had to buy all those other guitars to find that strat. I swear. 

But with computers I've actually been really conservative. I always buy refurbished, or even used. I got my 2012 iMac used in 2014 and it's held up fairly well, I think I've actually replaced the entire thing piece by piece (aside from the screen) over the years. Maybe that's a lesson to only buy refurbished, not buy privately... For the last year I've been pushing the cpu limit, using VEP to house cpu hungry instruments even though I find using VEP a pain (very first world problem, I know...) and I want (need?) lots of headroom so I don't need to be thinking about that all the time. I had an even older iMac that I used as a slave until it bought the farm last year, and now I'm using my 2012 mac mini which I used to use when traveling, for a slave when needed. 

It's the cpu headroom I'm after, I can continue get away without it, but I'm getting a strained neck to keep from hitting my head on the cpu ceiling. 

I don't think I'm going to want to spend the $ for the new mac pro, my dream is that they create the ability to put together a model that will work for our kind of music production that won't cost an arm and a leg, but not holding my breath. 




Daniel James said:


> Unless you are desperate to upgrade, I would just hold out. Make the jump when you HAVE to. When that next huge gig comes around. Because the new macs will not be cheap, and if you are upgrading it sohuld be because you need to take a step forward. If its all still working fine, just wait until you HAVE to upgrade, then by then the cost might have come down a little.
> 
> Don't do what I did and buy a new machine because you could at premium price, then do work you could have done on your old machine for a couple years before you finally get to utilize all the extra horsepower, to realise the machine is now worht much less than what you paid.
> 
> ...


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## Daniel James (Jan 6, 2019)

Soundhound said:


> Spot on, Daniel. I am guilty of this with sample libraries for sure, same way I was buying too many guitars in the 2000s but played my favorite strat 90% of the time. But then I had to buy all those other guitars to find that strat. I swear.
> 
> But with computers I've actually been really conservative. I always buy refurbished, or even used. I got my 2012 iMac used in 2014 and it's held up fairly well, I think I've actually replaced the entire thing piece by piece (aside from the screen) over the years. Maybe that's a lesson to only buy refurbished, not buy privately... For the last year I've been pushing the cpu limit, using VEP to house cpu hungry instruments even though I find using VEP a pain (very first world problem, I know...) and I want (need?) lots of headroom so I don't need to be thinking about that all the time. I had an even older iMac that I used as a slave until it bought the farm last year, and now I'm using my 2012 mac mini which I used to use when traveling, for a slave when needed.
> 
> ...





-DJ


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## Soundhound (Jan 6, 2019)

Brill! (How do you type a London accent? My british nieces and nephews say that word all the time, but I can't seem to pull it off.)

That does it, I'm getting a fully loaded Mac Pro when it comes out and using that video in court when my wife decrees I should sleep in the garage.


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## Michael Antrum (Jan 6, 2019)

I've just stuck 2 x 5690 Xeon CPU's in my 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 (flashed to 5,1). I'm getting speeds in the same range as the Trash Cans. 

If you don't NEED Thunderbolt, it's pretty good bang for buck....

Like this one....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Specs-Apple-Mac-Pro-5-1-Early-2009-2-X-3-33Ghz-6-core-X5680-12-core-SSD/283307904211?hash=item41f6778cd3:g:pFAAAOSwCVtcBcQb:rk:39:pf:0

That's an absolutely pukkah machine for little dosh.


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## Soundhound (Jan 6, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> That's an absolutely pukkah machine for little dosh.



The henry higgins in me needs to know where you are from!


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## Michael Antrum (Jan 6, 2019)

I'm from Yorkshire, but I lived in the East End for a good while, and married and East End girl. (If you are not familiar with East End girls they are quite feisty).

I'm now back in Yorkshire, but living in the East End in the 80's was the absolute bollocks...

(I've kind of got dual nationality...)


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## jononotbono (Jan 6, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> If you don't NEED Thunderbolt, it's pretty good bang for buck...



Perfect advice. 

I'm tired of it's performance at this point but it certainly is still running well!


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## ironbut (Jan 6, 2019)

For the OP, I don't have any personal experience with them, but I first heard of these guys on Production Expert videos (was Pro Tools Expert) who I consider to be a trustworthy reviewer of all things Pro Audio.

That said, I'm 100% with what Danial said. 
Personally, I'm doing fine with my cheese grater and I'm kind of relieved that I resisted the urge to upgrade to the dust bins (in light of the 2018 Mac Mini and what might be coming with the new Pro).
Maybe I'd feel differently if I had tons of cash.
I'm willing to find out if anyone is interested in making a donation!


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## Soundhound (Jan 6, 2019)

Ah, okay thanks. I married a girl from the South (U.S.) feisty as well. 

cheers!




Michael Antrum said:


> I'm from Yorkshire, but I lived in the East End for a good while, and married and East End girl. (If you are not familiar with East End girls they are quite feisty).
> 
> I'm now back in Yorkshire, but living in the East End in the 80's was the absolute bollocks...
> 
> (I've kind of got dual nationality...)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 6, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> I'm from Yorkshire



Hah! Halifax here.


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## sourcefor (Jan 6, 2019)

I'd get a new Mac mini before a 2013 MP..just my 2 cents!


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## Sami (Jan 6, 2019)

sourcefor said:


> I'd get a new Mac mini before a 2013 MP..just my 2 cents!


...and put liquid metal on the cpu


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## ghobii (Jan 7, 2019)

I just had to replace my trashcan, and went with the mini. The way I see it, benchmarks show the cpu performance of the two as equal. I added an eGPU with a Radeon RX580, which I'm sure beats the pants off the antiquated ones in the Mac Pro. Plus the mini has much faster USB ports, that are easy to find peripherals for. Try finding something to plug into those Thunderbolt 2 ports on the pro for a reasonable price.


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## N.Caffrey (Jan 7, 2019)

ghobii said:


> I just had to replace my trashcan, and went with the mini. The way I see it, benchmarks show the cpu performance of the two as equal. I added an eGPU with a Radeon RX580, which I'm sure beats the pants off the antiquated ones in the Mac Pro. Plus the mini has much faster USB ports, that are easy to find peripherals for. Try finding something to plug into those Thunderbolt 2 ports on the pro for a reasonable price.



Please let us know your experience. I'm going to get a new computer this year. Have to decide between the new Mac mini, Macbook pro or iMac. I'd be inclined to for the Mac mini too, I'd be curious to know how loud the fans get.


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## Michael Antrum (Jan 7, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Hah! Halifax here.



How did you end up in LA then ?


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## Sami (Jan 7, 2019)

N.Caffrey said:


> Please let us know your experience. I'm going to get a new computer this year. Have to decide between the new Mac mini, Macbook pro or iMac. I'd be inclined to for the Mac mini too, I'd be curious to know how loud the fans get.


obs. the part about the liquid metal above... Does absolute wonders. Same with 64 GB of aftermarket RAM instead of that ridiculous pricing their royal highnesses at Cupertino think they can charge


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## benmrx (Jan 7, 2019)

I'm in upgrade hell right now debating so many different things. I'd love to hear from people here using the new Mac Mini on how Mojave has been working out for you, and what applications you're using. I am right in thinking that the new Mac Mini will ONLY run Mojave.... right??


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## hansandersen (Jan 7, 2019)

benmrx said:


> I'm in upgrade hell right now debating so many different things. I'd love to hear from people here using the new Mac Mini on how Mojave has been working out for you, and what applications you're using. I am right in thinking that the new Mac Mini will ONLY run Mojave.... right??


Why would you get the Mac Mini?


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## benmrx (Jan 7, 2019)

hansandersen said:


> Why would you get the Mac Mini?



Possibly as a slave, possibly as a interim solution while I figure out a larger workstation scenario


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## gsilbers (Jan 7, 2019)

ghobii said:


> I just had to replace my trashcan, and went with the mini. The way I see it, benchmarks show the cpu performance of the two as equal. I added an eGPU with a Radeon RX580, which I'm sure beats the pants off the antiquated ones in the Mac Pro. Plus the mini has much faster USB ports, that are easy to find peripherals for. Try finding something to plug into those Thunderbolt 2 ports on the pro for a reasonable price.



what caffrey said. let us know how is it in comparison. also which trashcan vs what mini cpu wise. 
thanks!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 7, 2019)

Michael Antrum said:


> How did you end up in LA then ?



My parents moved here when I was a small child. 

And we moved to London before that for several years. But I did go back to London for a year when I was 12, and learned more in that year than in the next three here.


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## ridgero (Jan 7, 2019)

Sorry guys, but I don't get the point to buy a Computer from 2013 (possibly the fastest degrading industry in our world) for 3.000 - 5000 dollar. Sure a 12 Core Xeon E5-2697v2 is still a good CPU, but will last for the next couple of years? Nah.... If you spend so much money, you want stuff that last at least 5 years from NOW.

Once the 7,1 comes out, many companies will flood eBay with their old 6,1, so I guess there will be a HUGE price drop on eBay & co.

I get the point, that you need to spend alot of money to use macOS, but wouldnt you rather buy a iMac 5k i7 instead of the 2013 MacPro? It also can handle 64 GB RAM has a much newer CPU generation (4 cores, but faster cores and more IPC), Thunderbolt 3 and a brilliant 5k 27" screen. Even if you sell the iMac after a while, you still will get a decent amount of money for that.

Btw, I am also in the position where I want to use macOS as my primary OS and want to buy a stationary Mac.


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## ghobii (Jan 8, 2019)

N.Caffrey said:


> I'd be curious to know how loud the fans get.


 It's very quiet. The only time I've noticed any sound from it was when bouncing out a large complex project, and it wasn't loud at all. It's never been an issue while actually working on a project. And I'm currently mixing an album where most songs have 100-150 tracks, and lots of plugins. So it's definitely being taxed cpu-wise. The Sonnet eGPU I added is also extremely quiet. Silent actually, when doing audio work where the GPU isn't really used.

I started this mixing project with the trashcan, which was a 6-core Xeon model. The mini is the 6-core I7, and I upgraded the RAM myself to 32GB, which is the amount I had in the Pro. The mini seems to be handling the project as well, or better cpu-wise. I moved the project from an old RAID system onto a SSD as well, and that has made a huge difference. I can now skip around the project in real time, and no errors when it can't loop in the middle of a dense section.

Over-all, I'm very happy with the mini.


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## ridgero (Jan 8, 2019)

ghobii said:


> It's very quiet. The only time I've noticed any sound from it was when bouncing out a large complex project, and it wasn't loud at all. It's never been an issue while actually working on a project. And I'm currently mixing an album where most songs have 100-150 tracks, and lots of plugins. So it's definitely being taxed cpu-wise. The Sonnet eGPU I added is also extremely quiet. Silent actually, when doing audio work where the GPU isn't really used.
> 
> I started this mixing project with the trashcan, which was a 6-core Xeon model. The mini is the 6-core I7, and I upgraded the RAM myself to 32GB, which is the amount I had in the Pro. The mini seems to be handling the project as well, or better cpu-wise. I moved the project from an old RAID system onto a SSD as well, and that has made a huge difference. I can now skip around the project in real time, and no errors when it can't loop in the middle of a dense section.
> 
> Over-all, I'm very happy with the mini.



I am sure the Mac mini handles the project better CPU-wise. The I7-8700B from the mini is better in every aspect compared to the Xeon E5-1650 v2 from your Mac Pro.


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## LLGen (Jan 8, 2019)

I’m mid series, but my trusty silver tower has been failing in the weirdest of ways (the idea that I got nearly a decade out of this as a main rig is simply amazing), so I picked up the new mini to put together a new system on the side.

Impressive single core speed for sure. Overall, the mini was just really snappy and responsive. USBC was a great connector to have for speed and compatability. Integrated graphics did drive my 4k LG display. But... throttling of cpu once session got big and busy. Ran hot. Just as noisy, IMO, as the 2 2012 quad minis I have (one for business, one as a sample farm.) The design is just too small.

Was never going to buy into the imac line for a main rig. Rolled the dice and bought a used 8 core 6,1 fully loaded on ebay for an astoundingly low 1600 as an intermediary step. (Fully aware that I could have got taken for a ride by the seller... but they did have a 30 day return policy.) Much better. Quiet. Cool. Full processing under load. Single core is actually above 4000 on Geekbench 4... not near the new mini, but kills my lovely cMP.

Mini was on Mojave, nMP is on Sierra.

With my sample farm computers I can see not needing another main Apple/logic rig for at least several years... barring Apple not killing the 6,1 via software or OS updates, which is unlikely as they still sell them as new.

By the way, the guy I sold the mini to is extactic about its performance, so...

You mileage may vary. Good luck. Can’t wait to see what Apple does for the MP refresh, though!


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## LLGen (Jan 8, 2019)

ridgero said:


> I am sure the Mac mini handles the project better CPU-wise. The I7-8700B from the mini is better in every aspect compared to the Xeon E5-1650 v2 from your Mac Pro.



Not my experience.


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## ridgero (Jan 8, 2019)

LLGen said:


> Not my experience.


Really?

The specs are better (in every single aspect) - maybe the cooling?


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## LLGen (Jan 8, 2019)

I’d say that pure cpu-wise, yes. Chip for chip. Sure. But overall once the throttling kicked in, no. The 2018 got just as hot, and loud, as the 2012.

Maybe I was predisposed against the mini as a main rig from the start.

Again, YMMV.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 8, 2019)

ridgero said:


> Sorry guys, but I don't get the point to buy a Computer from 2013 (possibly the fastest degrading industry in our world) for 3.000 - 5000 dollar. Sure a 12 Core Xeon E5-2697v2 is still a good CPU, but will last for the next couple of years? Nah.... If you spend so much money, you want stuff that last at least 5 years from NOW.



I agree that 6,1s are way too expensive today - today. Still, if Apple switches from Intel processors, sure, but otherwise there's a good chance the computer will still be perfectly viable in five years.

After all, updated 2009 machines are still fine today.



> Once the 7,1 comes out, many companies will flood eBay with their old 6,1, so I guess there will be a HUGE price drop on eBay & co.



Again, only if Apple switches processors - and then it's not certain. Historically, Macs haven't dropped like crazy when new models come out.


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## Damarus (Jan 8, 2019)

LLGen said:


> I’d say that pure cpu-wise, yes. Chip for chip. Sure. But overall once the throttling kicked in, no. The 2018 got just as hot, and loud, as the 2012.
> 
> Maybe I was predisposed against the mini as a main rig from the start.
> 
> Again, YMMV.



Doing what? Just normal DAW work?


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## LLGen (Jan 8, 2019)

Yep. Just running an existing 5-6 minute orchestral session (with video). 70-80 tracks in logic, both audio and insts. 300+ midi channels coming in from Vienna spread over a few dozen instances. Samples streaming off of evo drives via thunderbolt. Obviously, not everything was firing at once. But definitely some of the orchestration is pretty thick. Large-ish, but fairly typical session.

It wasn’t quite fully a one-for-one as not all of my plugins were yet installed onto the mini, but that actually would have favored the mini, so for the most part a fairly good comparison for me.

Again, the new mini owner really loves the machine... and thinks I took a step backward on single core (definitely) and on thunderbolt 3 (maybe). I have two 2012 minis, and I like them for what they are. But, IMO, the 2018 is still on par with them in build quality. Some folks think that’s great. As a main rig, I didn’t.

As I’m hopelessly tied to logic, still eager for Apple to release the new pro, but as I truly needed something now, I held my nose and went with the nMP. Lucky to find a bargain basement price. Now, I’ll have to “tough it out” with all this new found headroom in a 5 year old machine. It’s actually crazy good.

Best!


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## Soundhound (Jan 8, 2019)

Good find! Ebay?



LLGen said:


> I’m mid series, but my trusty silver tower has been failing in the weirdest of ways (the idea that I got nearly a decade out of this as a main rig is simply amazing), so I picked up the new mini to put together a new system on the side.
> 
> Impressive single core speed for sure. Overall, the mini was just really snappy and responsive. USBC was a great connector to have for speed and compatability. Integrated graphics did drive my 4k LG display. But... throttling of cpu once session got big and busy. Ran hot. Just as noisy, IMO, as the 2 2012 quad minis I have (one for business, one as a sample farm.) The design is just too small.
> 
> ...


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## LLGen (Jan 8, 2019)

Yeah. It was a used/refurb seller in Texas that had a couple dozen or so of these to blow out. Ebay gave me one of those 10% off up to $100 coupons, and at $1,600 I couldn’t help but give it ago. They went fast. I practically spent the same amount on the nMP that I would have to up the mini from 32GB to 64GB of memory. Not really, but you get the gist.

I feel like I’ve already hijacked the thread enough! Sorry, all...


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## Sami (Jan 8, 2019)

The mini stops throttling once you replace the stock thermal interface material.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 9, 2019)

LLGen said:


> nMP



What is an nMP? New Mac Pro?

Those of us who aren't hip have nFI what you kids today are talking about.



Sami said:


> The mini stops throttling once you replace the stock thermal interface material.



That's ridiculous.

(I mean that you have to replace thermal interface material to make it not throttle.)


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## LLGen (Jan 9, 2019)

Sorry, Nick. Yes, new mac pro. The darth vader/dust bin/trash can mac pro. nMP seemed to be what others on the interwebs referred to it as. Thought I’d play along. Seems that you have a pretty good FI as to what’s going on.

First, I decided to shave and got carded buying wine this past weekend. And now this. This over 40 is having a great week!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 9, 2019)

LLGen said:


> This over 40 is having a great week



I used to be over 40 and I'm having a great one too!


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## ironbut (Jan 9, 2019)

Sami said:


> The mini stops throttling once you replace the stock thermal interface material.


How long ago did you put the liquid metal in your 2018 MM?


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## Sami (Jan 9, 2019)

Fully agree with all of you about the Mini throttling issue being pathetic. Full disclosure: I performed the tim replacement for a friend who ordered the 8700b on day one and had purchased the double density sodimms in advance. The cooler is copper-core and I coated the chip around the package HS out of paranoia. No issues since. Total time was around 15 mins for liquid metal and the ram upgrade and very easy with the right tools (pro tech tk from ifixit) and the right liquid metal (used conductonaut). The throttling issues and a socketed cpu are what reminds me every day why I use a hackintosh. Also that damn xeon in the 2013 mac pro with a base price of 2k euros in good used condition.


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