# Mac Mini advice



## Chris T (Aug 26, 2020)

I need some Mac Mini advice. NOTE: my actual questions are at the very bottom (if you don’t want to trudge through this longwinded post.). My current rig is:

Mac Pro (2013 Trashcan, 2,.7 GHz, 12-core 64GB RAM - OS10.14.6). 
2 x Mac Minis (2011, 16GB RAM each - OS10.13.6).

I’m 100% SSD drives. I run Digital Performer 10 and VE Pro 7 on my main Mac Pro. I host ALL synths / VIs and a million plugins, reverbs etc. on the Mac Pro. I also host video on my Mac Pro and Mix directly in DP, which works great.

Since I like having a MEGA template (from my years of doing big orchestral mockups + synths + big perc etc), I host my orchestra (Strings, Brass, WW) on the 2 slave Mac Minis. However, since they had the annoying 16GB RAM limit (back in 2011!), I had to host my orchestral perc on the main Mac. This rig has worked out very well for several years.

Until the other day when one of my Mac Minis died (Da-da-daaaaa!). I think it was a failing fan (bad noise) that caused overheating and constant shutdowns.

Regardless of whether I can fix the Mini (which I prob won’t bother), it’s definitely time I upgraded them. While in an ideal world I would just splurge $20k+ and get the NEW Mac Pro with a million GB of RAM, and be done with the slaves, I still believe that my best option (both from a financial and practical standpoint) is to get 1 (or 2) new Mac minis and max out the RAM in each. This should give me plenty of headroom for my full orch template, then leave plenty of room/juice on my Mac Pro to host my myriad synths etc. 

Maxed-out Mac Mini = $3,000 (64GB RAM)

( For those wondering, I used to use Windows on PCs (in the old Gigastudio days), but I gave up years ago (I guess Vista was my last straw!). I really don’t want to go the PC route, even though I know it’s way more bang for the buck. Generally speaking I find the Mac OS easier and more reliable. )


———
My questions are:

1. Does anyone have the NEW Mac Mini, and if so, how are they? 

2. I’m just using the Minis to run VEPro 7 which will host my orchestral libraries in Kontakt 6 (mostly Cinematic Strings, Cinesamples wind, brass, some 8Dio, Symphobia etc). I DO NOT run any plugins / reverbs on the minis. All that is on my Mac Pro. 
- With this in mind, which Processor would you receommend? (Quad-core / Six-core / speed?)

3. Any downside (as far as heating / headroom etc.) if I max out the RAM and SSD sizes?

4. Would the 10GB Ethernet give me better MIDI / Audio ‘throughput’, or is that redundant for our usages?

—————
Muchas gracias!


----------



## Alex Sopala (Aug 26, 2020)

I'll answer what I can.

2. To answer that, how large are the templates as far as RAM usage and number of instruments (to give me an idea of how large of a template we're talking about here)? And are dropped notes an issue with orchestral tutti on the machine you're using the template on?

3. I don't believe so. RAM sticks don't output much heat, and it's fairly straightforward to cool most SSDs, NVME or otherwise. It's really cooling the processor that I'd argue is more paramount, and I assume the Mac Mini is better at that than the Macbooks.

4. Not really, we don't push that hard for VEP purposes. 10GB Ethernet is still quite nice to have for transferring files over the network, assuming you have the infrastructure to match (switches, Cat6A/Cat7 cables, other machines with 10GBE, etc). It's also just good future-proofing (once 2.5 and 5 GBE become more common because they work on Cat6 cables), and for a $100 upgrade I don't see why not. It's nice to have. But as far as audio goes, it's not necessary.


----------



## Anders Wall (Aug 26, 2020)

1. Yes. I run it with two thunderbolt - pci boxes.
One for the graphics and one for HDX and UAD cards.
It runs kind of warm so I’ve set the fans to work a little more than default. The computer is in a dedicated room so I don’t worry about the extra noise it makes and those breakout boxes are super noisy.
I haven’t really tried to max it out with kontakt/synth instances, but as a ProTools-rig it’s flawless.
I’m running the 1gb network chip, fastest processor and 64gb ram/1tb storage version (It might be the 2tb ssd. It’s 5am and I’m not in the studio).
Last show I scored I had the main orchestra (BBC) on an Intel NUC and the extra bits and bobs on the iMac. So roughly 70 kontakt instances, some synths and ProTools running without any hiccups. That said I do run a pretty high buffer setting of 256.
Haven’t tried it with 64 or 32 samples.

Best of luck,
/Anders


----------



## rnb_2 (Aug 27, 2020)

I have the 2018 Mac mini i7 (same as the 2020, but with smaller SSDs stock), and I really like it. Since I do photo/video work, I've had an eGPU hooked up to it from the beginning, and that generally works well. I do have the 10Gb network adapter to future-proof it (since it may end up in a server role someday), but don't currently have any other 10Gb devices to test it with.

As others have mentioned, you shouldn't experience any extra heat from RAM or larger SSD. I would go with at least the i5 processor, since the i3 has neither Turbo Boost nor hyperthreading. Upgrade to the i7 if you can, as the hyperthreading can't hurt for future-proofing.

One question that hit me while reading through this, though: is there any reason not to move the Mac minis' functions to the Mac Pro, and get a new iMac (i7 is probably the sweet spot)? You'd get a new 'master' machine, and from a horsepower standpoint, the Mac Pro should easily replace two 2011 minis, and already has enough RAM to handle things they couldn't. Buy 64GB (or more) RAM from a third party, and you'll save money vs. two new minis, as well. Just a thought.


----------



## Jerrold Weinstein (Aug 27, 2020)

I have two 2018 Mac minis with 64 gigs ram. They are great computers but run a little warm. It helps to use a fan or stand it on its side or both. Biggest drag about the minis is the ram is not user upgradeable. Unless you really know what you are doing its a bad idea to try. I've upgraded a few computers and I wouldn't mess with this one. Too small and the ram is buried too deeply.


----------



## WandaS (Aug 29, 2020)

For those of you with Mini heat issues I use a stand the Mini goes on top of. The stand has a low speed fan under it. You take the circular black cover off the bottom of the Mini and the air travels through it and cooling is not a problem. There are several companies that make the stand for the Mini and it solved my heat problem I run at 99 degrees F. I don't use the internal drive. I have a 2TB NVMe thunderbolt 3 drive as my boot drive which also keep's heat out of the Mini and saves more than $400 on 2TB over Apple. I find this computer ( 6 core i7 ) to be solid and dependable and will last quite along while.


----------



## shropshirelad (Aug 29, 2020)

Jerrold Weinstein said:


> I have two 2018 Mac minis with 64 gigs ram. They are great computers but run a little warm. It helps to use a fan or stand it on its side or both. Biggest drag about the minis is the ram is not user upgradeable. Unless you really know what you are doing its a bad idea to try. I've upgraded a few computers and I wouldn't mess with this one. Too small and the ram is buried too deeply.


I've been weighing up the mini vs iMac but hadn't considered that the mini was difficult to do a user memory upgrade on. This immediately rules it out for me, as Apple RAM prices are outrageous. Thanks for saving me making a costly mistake!


----------



## rnb_2 (Aug 29, 2020)

shropshirelad said:


> I've been weighing up the mini vs iMac but hadn't considered that the mini was difficult to do a user memory upgrade on. This immediately rules it out for me, as Apple RAM prices are outrageous. Thanks for saving me making a costly mistake!



Upgrading the RAM in the current mini isn't as easy as the 27" iMac, but it's not that difficult - there are multiple places with how-to videos, like OWC or iFixit. Both of those will sell you kits with everything you need, including the RAM.


----------



## SupremeFist (Aug 29, 2020)

The Mini's RAM _is _user-upgradeable officially — doing so doesn't void your warranty, and though it's fiddly it's not at all difficult. (I am by no means a hardware tinkerer and did it myself with no problems.)


----------



## SGordB (Aug 29, 2020)

shropshirelad said:


> I've been weighing up the mini vs iMac but hadn't considered that the mini was difficult to do a user memory upgrade on. This immediately rules it out for me, as Apple RAM prices are outrageous. Thanks for saving me making a costly mistake!


FWIW, there’s a used computer dealer and electronics repair chain here in Winnipeg, claims to be Apple authorized, that estimates they’d charge me under $100 to upgrade the RAM in the latest gen. mini if I ever go that route. Would still void the warranty, of course.

... Oops. Just read your post, SupremeFist. So perhaps maybe not, although the tech I spoke to thought it would void the warranty.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Aug 29, 2020)

Just throwing in another voice to say I upgraded the ram also. I have some experience in that sort of thing but I wouldn't say it was especially difficult. Intimidating for somebody who doesn't normally do that sort of thing, perhaps.
It's really just a lot of screws and you have a few parts to reassemble afterwards.
Hardest part was waiting for the special screwdriver to arrive.


----------



## shropshirelad (Aug 29, 2020)

Thanks for all the great input/advice. I've looked at a couple of vids and do feel up to the task of upgrading the mini, so it's back in the mix. Thanks also for the pointer towards OWC - I'll definitely consider importing the RAM from them when the time comes - their int shipping is very reasonable.


----------



## SupremeFist (Aug 30, 2020)

shropshirelad said:


> Thanks for all the great input/advice. I've looked at a couple of vids and do feel up to the task of upgrading the mini, so it's back in the mix. Thanks also for the pointer towards OWC - I'll definitely consider importing the RAM from them when the time comes - their int shipping is very reasonable.


Dont forget import duties though! FYI I got Crucial RAM from Amazon UK and it worked out cheapest at the time. (£299 for 64Gb.)


----------



## Nate Johnson (Aug 30, 2020)

@Chris T - It sounds like upgrading the Minis is a fine idea - but I'd be investigating what rnb_2 suggested - moving the 6,1 Mac Pro to library duty and buying a new 27" i7 iMac as the master DAW. It'd be a hell of a lot cheaper, and the 6,1 is definitely aging....


----------



## SupremeFist (Sep 21, 2020)

FYI I just noticed there is a significant cpu hit (not just possible graphical lag) on the mini to running in scaled resolutions, even at max RAM. Current project was running 60% CPU on all cores, then I remembered to switch back to 4k native and it went down to 25% CPU on all cores. Pretty steep!


----------



## wayne_rowley (Sep 21, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> FYI I just noticed there is a significant cpu hit (not just possible graphical lag) on the mini to running in scaled resolutions, even at max RAM. Current project was running 60% CPU on all cores, then I remembered to switch back to 4k native and it went down to 25% CPU on all cores. Pretty steep!



That‘s quite a hit! What was the scaled resolution?


----------



## SupremeFist (Sep 21, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> That‘s quite a hit! What was the scaled resolution?


I don't remember now exactly but it was somewhere in the middle of the control panel choices. Anyway good to know!


----------



## JonS (Sep 21, 2020)

Chris T said:


> I need some Mac Mini advice. NOTE: my actual questions are at the very bottom (if you don’t want to trudge through this longwinded post.). My current rig is:
> 
> Mac Pro (2013 Trashcan, 2,.7 GHz, 12-core 64GB RAM - OS10.14.6).
> 2 x Mac Minis (2011, 16GB RAM each - OS10.13.6).
> ...


I've looked at the same reality. I have DP10 and VEPro 7, I would avoid the Mac mini (64GB RAM max, RAM not user installable or more like pain in da donkey installable, overheats too easily) if you can and instead get a new iMac 8-core i7 ($1,899 from Apple Education store which anyone can buy from you don't need to prove anything to Apple and im sure you are a student of life) then buy 128GB RAM from Amazon (32GB sticks are $117 each) for less than $500. You don't need the 10GB Ethernet.


----------



## Fox (Sep 21, 2020)

Hmmm...where is this fabled "Apple Education" store? I can't seem to locate it!


----------



## JonS (Sep 21, 2020)

Fox said:


> Hmmm...where is this fabled "Apple Education" store? I can't seem to locate it!











Education Pricing and Student Discounts


Receive a discount on a new Mac or iPad for your studies with Apple Education Pricing. Available for students, teachers and staff.



www.apple.com


----------



## Ashermusic (Sep 28, 2020)

I just bought a 2018 Mac mini i7 with 8 GB and ordered the 64 GB upgrade from OWC. I think this will be a nice upgrade from my late 2013 iMac i7 with the max 32 GB.

It buys me time for not a lot of money till we see how the ARM Macs shape up.


----------

