# Do You Think That Some Guitars Are Way Over Priced?



## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

So, i am saying this because of what i experienced.

In my time i have had loads of guitars, Yamaha, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez and so on.

Quality, yes, playability, yes. Sound, yes.
But this is what i noticed a few years ago.

My situation was a bit hard but i needed a guitar as i didn't have one.
So i went to the music shop and bought an Epiphone Les Paul Plustop Pro at £350. I played it in the shop and i was impressed.
I played it at home and i was even more impressed.
The quality of the build, the sound it made, everything. Anyway, a year later, i came into a large sum of money.
Now, do i go and buy a high end guitar. I fought it and fought it and the thing that tipped it for me was, having just lost my sister who was only 55, she had gone through her life saving and saving but being to scared to buy the things she really wanted in life. 

So , I made up my mind, live for the monment and enjoy it. I went to the shop and i bought a Gibson Les Paul Custom Shop 59 re issue at £5600.00.




Yes, It is a gorgeous guitar and yes it sounded gorgeous and ok, its is hand built buy the craftsmen at Gibson but,
That Epiphone i had that i had just sold after getting the Gibson was actually very close in quality build and even sound.

Even a Standard Gibson Les Paul can be up to 4 times the amount of the Epiphone.


So, in this day and age, are we paying just for the 'name'. There are loads of guitar makers out there now that build quality guitars for a fraction of the price. It was different 30 years ago but now, there is quality everywhere.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

I did end up selling the Gibson and with that money, i bought a few more instruments.


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## TomislavEP (Jul 26, 2020)

I'm primarily a pianist and keyboardist but I also use all types of guitars in my work. I had had quite a few of them over the years, though I never could afford to buy something rather expensive. Instead, I always aimed to get the "best-buy" instruments, mostly from companies such as Ibanez, Peavey, Washburn, and Tanglewood. I can't say that I have a lot of experience with expensive guitars and the other instruments of this type, but the main difference I've noticed is that those tend to be much more comfortable to play than the cheaper ones. But the latter definitely serve their purpose too, so I would personally rather have a variety of different guitar types on hand (which I do) than a single instrument of stellar quality.

I wouldn't go as far as to say those expensive guitars are not worth it, but at the end of the day, the most important thing is the way you're using them. Also, in this day and age, the production processes have matured quite significantly, so the relatively low price doesn't necessarily have to mean poor quality as well.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

TomislavEP said:


> I wouldn't go as far as to say those expensive guitars are not worth it, but at the end of the day, the most important thing is the way you're using them. Also, in this day and age, the production processes have matured quite significantly, so the relatively low price doesn't necessarily have to mean poor quality as well.


It is a funny subject though, that guitar shop that i bought the Gibson from told me a few weeks earlier, some guy managed to walk in, take a £10,000 PRS and walk out with it. I mean, 10 grand for a new guitar?
I can understand a vintage guitar selling for that if not more but some of these prices for new guitars are just a bit over the top lol


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## Nils Neumann (Jul 26, 2020)

In my experience guitars don’t get better over the price point of 1600-2000€. They just get more expensive with nearly no added value.

The built quality today is stellar. Around 800€ I found to be the best sweet spot.

I think you paid a LOT for the brand in this case.

I just bought a a second hand banjo for 160€, originally sold for around 300€ and the build quality is out of this world. If I didn’t knew better I would guess this is a 1000€ plus instrument.

So yeah, just my 2 cents...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

Nils Neumann said:


> In my experience guitars don’t get better over the price point of 1600-2000€. They just get more expensive with nearly no added value.
> 
> The built quality today is stellar. Around 800€ I found to be the best sweet spot.
> 
> ...


Yes totally agree, i knew i was paying well over its worth on the Gibson, but i can at least say i have owned one and i have videos of me playing it in some tracks so i am happy with that part. My Ibanez that i use now is gorgeous and lovely to play and only cost me £1200.00


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## Sunny Schramm (Jul 26, 2020)

I´m very sorry for losing your sister - whish you all the power of the world to go through this hard time.

I dont think expensive stuff is always better - even when the overall quality of the build, wood and components is better. Well - better is also relativ. Some wood is much more expansive because they are more rare than others. AND as a company you have to have products for all belongings. Its a fact that really rich people like to buy expensive stuff just because its expensive 😉 I dont meant you and your special case here of course ❤ And I dont wanna critizise rich people also by that. Its just like that and its ok 🤷‍♂️


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> I´m very sorry for losing your sister - whish you all the power of the world to go through this hard time.
> 
> I dont think expensive stuff is always better - even when the overall quality of the build, wood and components is better. Well - better is also relativ. Some wood is much more expansive because they are more rare than others. AND as a company you have to have products for all belongings. Its a fact that really rich people like to buy expensive stuff just because its expensive 😉 I dont meant you and your special case here of course ❤ And I dont wanna critizise rich people also by that. Its just like that and its ok 🤷‍♂️


Yes that is very understandable, after all, if you are rich, you will buy a Ferrari because you can afford to and you are defiantely paying for the name too. I bought a brand new Honda Fireblade around 2005 for £7000 and the equivalent Ducati at the time was £14000 so double just for the name. To me the Fireblade looked just as nice as the Ducati.

Thanks about my sister, you go through life then one day you collapse and that's it. We should always try to make the most of life cos we never know what's around the corner


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## Saxer (Jul 26, 2020)

There happened a lot in instrument manufacturing (or better robofacturing) in the last decades. I personally don't want to have instruments on stage that are not replaceable. I don't know guitars but for woodwinds I don't see a reason to buy vintage instruments or the few top brands any more. It's more for the Rolex-feel than for the music. There are Asian companies I never heard before but they have tons of really good instruments.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

Saxer said:


> There happened a lot in instrument manufacturing (or better robofacturing) in the last decades. I personally don't want to have instruments on stage that are not replaceable. I don't know guitars but for woodwinds I don't see a reason to buy vintage instruments or the few top brands any more. It's more for the Rolex-feel than for the music. There are Asian companies I never heard before but they have tons of really good instruments.


Yes this is my point too. Just because the name doesn't mean anything doesn't mean the quality is bad.

If you want to pay over the top, that's up to you but there is really no need to nowdays


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## SupremeFist (Jul 26, 2020)

A Les Paul Standard is worth the money. Beyond that, you're just paying for prettier wood and so forth. A Custom Shop is nice to have if you're a blues lawyer. Probably the best-value guitars I have are the lowest-priced Gibson USA models (an SG "naked" and a Les Paul "faded").


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## MartinH. (Jul 26, 2020)

My condolences! 


I was impressed how good the lowest end of the price-range has gotten compared to when I started playing. I started out on a used Fender Squier strat-copy with single coil pickups that were so bad that I got pickup feedback all the time when playing at higher volumes. It costed either 300 DM or 300 € at the time. It had sharp edges at the bridge that would almost make your hand bleed. The next guitar I bought was a Jackson Kelly KE-7R (7 string with reversed headstock), which I got for 555 € (instead of the 50-100% higher list price) because they were discontinuing the model. Later I upgraded the pickups for another 200 to 300 €.
Last December I bought a Harley Benton 8 string fanned fret for 139,- that I got for 119,- in the end because it arrived with slight shipping damage. And I have to say in all the aspects that count - except pickups, which are meh - I think it's very very close to the quality of my Jackson. Starting out to play today is sooo much cheaper, it's crazy. 
Now I can't decide if I want to upgrade the bridge Pickup to an EMG or not...


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> A Les Paul Standard is worth the money. Beyond that, you're just paying for prettier wood and so forth. A Custom Shop is nice to have if you're a blues lawyer. Probably the best-value guitars I have are the lowest-priced Gibson USA models (an SG "naked" and a Les Paul "faded").


Nice. Paying over the top for a Custom Shop is like you say, just for a slightly better 'look' and maybe the fact that it's 'hand built' but there is plenty of nice out there that is reasonably priced.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> My condolences!
> 
> 
> I was impressed how good the lowest end of the price-range has gotten compared to when I started playing. I started out on a used Fender Squier strat-copy with single coil pickups that were so bad that I got pickup feedback all the time when playing at higher volumes. It costed either 300 DM or 300 € at the time. It had sharp edges at the bridge that would almost make your hand bleed. The next guitar I bought was a Jackson Kelly KE-7R (7 string with reversed headstock), which I got for 555 € (instead of the 50-100% higher list price) because they were discontinuing the model. Later I upgraded the pickups for another 200 to 300 €.
> ...


Yeah, when i started, my first electric guitar was £15 from a Kays Catalogue back in the 70's lol, my god was it hard to play though, I have had Squires that where pretty good specially the Classic Vibe 50's models at the 300 quid range. Learning on one of them for youngesters now days is ideal.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 26, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Yeah, when i started, my first electric guitar was £15 from a Kays Catalogue back in the 70's lol, my god was it hard to play though, I have had Squires that where pretty good specially the Classic Vibe 50's models at the 300 quid range. Learning on one of them for youngesters now days is ideal.


Ha yes, I learned on a horrible cheapo Encore strat copy with action a mile high. The modern Squiers are awesome by comparison.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Ha yes, I learned on a horrible cheapo Encore strat copy with action a mile high. The modern Squiers are awesome by comparison.


   

Yes,my fingers bled too lol,

I had a gorgeous Squire Classic Vibe Tele and it was great to play, really!


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

Listen to the tone of this Epiphone Plustop Pro i hade. This was recorded in 2017 just before i bought the Gibson.

One day i will buy one of these again, i just love it's tone...


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## chimuelo (Jul 26, 2020)

I work with a guy who has 14 guitars in his inventory. I grew up as a guitarist who played classical piano. Bought an SG Standard and the double cut away was easier to play than the Les Pauls, although I loved their smooth action, the damn weight of the guitar became a problem Live.
But in this studio I reminisced on each guitar, Gretsch 12 String, Jimmy Page double neck SG, Standard, Telecaster, Strat, Mustang, all great playing guitars.

The guitar that allowed me much more in terms of tone though was one unavailable to me as a kid, the Jackson Tie Die.
It has the action of the SG, but has a Fender Pick, and a Humbucking.

I could do Jimmy Page solos, Higher up on the neck Hendrix style (Castles Made Of Sand) Steve Howe (Yours Is No Disgrace) and even the Thumb on low E string MahaVishnu parts.

It was the cheapest, prettiest and most full of tone out of a dozen greats.
It felt a little unbalanced from the Wood used, but I’ve played many piano recitals where you don’t get warm ups, you just play. So you don’t get a chance to complain or critique, just Sink or swim.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> It was the cheapest, prettiest and most full of tone out of a dozen greats.
> It felt a little unbalanced from the Wood used, but I’ve played many piano recitals where you don’t get warm ups, you just play. So you don’t get a chance to complain or critique, just Sink or swim.


Yeah that can be a bit narrow from som of the high end guitars, the tone. A Les Paul generally sounds like a Les Paul and a Strat sounds like a Strat.Then you get HH, HSS, HSH that start to sound different. I really do believe the market now days is not dominated like it was years ago by Fender and Gibson.

That's better for us really.


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## patrick76 (Jul 26, 2020)

Some guitars are definitely overpriced! I think after around $2k for an electric, the return on investment is relatively weak in terms of quality in general. However, for an acoustic instrument like a steel string guitar or a classical guitar, the cost is much higher, especially for classical guitars. There can be a world of difference between a classical guitar costing 2k vs. an instrument costing 6k.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

patrick76 said:


> Some guitars are definitely overpriced! I think after around $2k for an electric, the return on investment is relatively weak in terms of quality in general. However, for an acoustic instrument like a steel string guitar or a classical guitar, the cost is much higher, especially for classical guitars. There can be a world of difference between a classical guitar costing 2k vs. an instrument costing 6k.


Yeah accoustic guitars seem to be a different ball game. I think the more you pay for an accoustic, the better you defiantely get.


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## Mornats (Jul 26, 2020)

I'm talking electric basses rather than guitars but the principal is the same. There are three basic levels of basses for me and they typically match the Fender range. At the bottom there's the Squiers, then the Mexican made Fenders, then the USA made Fenders. Prices are around £350 / £650 / £1800 I think. I own a Squier VM jazz (£240 when I bought it) a Mexican P bass (£514 back in 2015) and a Yamaha (we, can't actually remember the cost). Anyway, when I bought the Squier and the MIM Fender I compared them both against the USA models to see if saving up and going for the "proper" version was worth it. To be honest, none of the USA ones matched up the cheaper ones.The USA Fender P bass was lighter and felt a little easier to wear as a result but there was maybe £150-200 difference in quality but not over £1000 difference. I actually preferred the Squier jazz over the USA jazz I compared it against. I was actually a little disappointed that I had no justification to splash out and treat myself.

I think one key difference is that the shop I bought them in had a member of staff who loved setting up basses correctly so he set up all the ones that came in. That setup pushed the quality of the cheaper basses so much closer to that of the expensive ones.

So my recommendation would be to try and find a guitar that you just gel with and love playing and if it's a cheap one, pay an expert for a good setup. It'll save you hundreds.


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## Nils Neumann (Jul 26, 2020)

patrick76 said:


> Some guitars are definitely overpriced! I think after around $2k for an electric, the return on investment is relatively weak in terms of quality in general. However, for an acoustic instrument like a steel string guitar or a classical guitar, the cost is much higher, especially for classical guitars. There can be a world of difference between a classical guitar costing 2k vs. an instrument costing 6k.


I think with acoustics you really have to play a ton of them in a big store with a big selection. Then you can potentially find a incredible sounding guitar for a good price. 

I found acoustics to be way more personal then electric guitars. Even in the same product line they can sound and feel very different. Again with electrics not so much.


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## Nils Neumann (Jul 26, 2020)

Mornats said:


> I'm talking electric basses rather than guitars but the principal is the same. There are three basic levels of basses for me and they typically match the Fender range. At the bottom there's the Squiers, then the Mexican made Fenders, then the USA made Fenders. Prices are around £350 / £650 / £1800 I think. I own a Squier VM jazz (£240 when I bought it) a Mexican P bass (£514 back in 2015) and a Yamaha (we, can't actually remember the cost). Anyway, when I bought the Squier and the MIM Fender I compared them both against the USA models to see if saving up and going for the "proper" version was worth it. To be honest, none of the USA ones matched up the cheaper ones.The USA Fender P bass was lighter and felt a little easier to wear as a result but there was maybe £150-200 difference in quality but not over £1000 difference. I actually preferred the Squier jazz over the USA jazz I compared it against. I was actually a little disappointed that I had no justification to splash out and treat myself.
> 
> I think one key difference is that the shop I bought them in had a member of staff who loved setting up basses correctly so he set up all the ones that came in. That setup pushed the quality of the cheaper basses so much closer to that of the expensive ones.
> 
> So my recommendation would be to try and find a guitar that you just gel with and love playing and if it's a cheap one, pay an expert for a good setup. It'll save you hundreds.


You are so right about set up! It‘s crazy how much you can improve your guitar if you learn to do it correctly.
There is so much intonation an feel just in the bridge.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

Mornats said:


> So my recommendation would be to try and find a guitar that you just gel with and love playing and if it's a cheap one, pay an expert for a good setup. It'll save you hundreds.


Yes that is excellent advice. Nearly all manufacturers only do a basic setup in the factory. I even had a normal Squire Strat, not the cheaper Bullet though but the normal one, i had it set up properly and i added better 'hot' single coils to it and it was really great to play, it surprised me to be honest.

There is this 'thing' about having the name Gibson or Fender on the headstock but if you can get past that, then there is no reason not to go cheaper in this day and age.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

Mind you,you can always do this......


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## JohnG (Jul 26, 2020)

Mornats said:


> That setup pushed the quality of the cheaper basses so much closer to that of the expensive ones.
> 
> So my recommendation would be to try and find a guitar that you just gel with and love playing and if it's a cheap one, pay an expert for a good setup. It'll save you hundreds.



I agree. 

I have a "studio" Stratocaster that I bought many years ago for something around $1k and, despite the name brand, the setup is more important than the instrument, as far as fun playing. Put it through a tube amp and it sounds very nice.

Maybe something more expensive would be better? IDK

The workshop in Los Angeles I use, recommended by the best guitar player I know: Renson Guitar Shop, 818 761 4766 Very old school and not too expensive, considering.


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## chimuelo (Jul 26, 2020)

There‘s always something better, but is it 2,000 dollars better?

Yuze guys made me want to buy an SG again.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 26, 2020)

Yes, nearly all the "high end" models. They're glorified phallic symbols and objects of mythical desire. Mainly targeted at men, which makes it worse so.

It most definitely is true for electrics. Acoustics is a different topic.


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## fish_hoof (Jul 26, 2020)

I think when its your main instrument, the price does matter. Ive owned everything from a $100 guitar to a $6000 PRS Hollowbody. I will tell you... I had more fun playing the PRS than the $100 guitar. Even the $1k guitars I've owned. I think when you are a master of your craft, I think you want the quality to go with it. Ive been playing for 25+ years, and while not a master... I would sooner put the money in to a top quality guitar and really enjoy the instrument. To me, there is just something creatively special when playing an instrument that was created with such craftsmanship. 

I'm sure the same would go for a violinist... there's the $1k violin, then there the stradavarious. 

Maybe I'm nuts... who knows. But I don't think they are overpriced, I think it depends on your talent and dedication to learning and playing the instrument. For another illustration, its like someone learning to race cars. We might look and say a Ferrari is overpriced compared to a Corvette. However, someone who really knows cars and its their passion and have a true talent for racing... would absolutely know the difference and say it's not overpriced. 

Ok....I've had a beer or two and now rambling. Maybe I AM nuts.


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## easyrider (Jul 26, 2020)

All depends on the end user and their perceived value...I have an American Deluxe Stratocaster and although it’s beautifully made and sounds incredible...I never really play it...I have a Gibson Les Paul Zebrawood and I’m indifferent about the thing!

I have loads of guitars...

But this thing I love dearly....1998 Fender collectors Edition Telecaster.In 1998, Fender produced a limited run of Collector's Edition Telecasters modeled after a '55 with gold hardware.

Bought it used for £700 And I’ve been offered much more for it...but the value to me has nothing to do with price...


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## jcrosby (Jul 26, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> So, i am saying this because of what i experienced.
> 
> In my time i have had loads of guitars, Yamaha, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez and so on.
> 
> ...


I used to work in a VERY high end vintage guitar store. I've played just about everything you can think of... 50's Teles & Strats, 57 Goldtops and 59/60 LPs, Original White Flacons and Roundups, even John Enstwistle's Broadcaster (straight out of a personal collection and thoroughly verified). I've handled some pretty incredible guitars in my time...

We also sold newer second hand stuff for players though. There really is a huge difference when you play a 59 LP or 57 Tele vs anything new. Now am I suggesting someone mortgage their house for 59 or 60 LP? *No!* (Unless you're into that kind of thing )

That said all of the major guitar brands have really declined in quality over the decades. That quality decline goes back a LONG time, but with each successive decade the decline is noticeably worse. You really notice it when you handle guitars from all decades day in and out... Even the same guitar models made in the early to mid 80s are a lot nicer compared to more recent ones.

IMO if one were in the market for an LP in the higher (NON-vintage) price range I'd look at an early 80s heritage instead, or something around that same era. It'll cost you the same or less, and the age will give it a nice bite that only comes with time as the instrument ages... With anything used/vintage vet your dealer before impulse buying anything. There's A LOT of fucked up used guitars out there.









Gibson Les Paul Heritage Series Standard-80 1980 - 1982 | Reverb


Gibson's first true attempt at a reproduction of the legendary '59 Les Paul Standard, the Heritage Series Standard 80 Paul remains mostly true to vintage spec with some subtle variations.Years of Production: 1980-82Body Style: Single cutaway solidbodyWood Composition: Mahogany body...




reverb.com





I'll flog my shop if you're lookin for vintage or players stuff. They have plenty of realistically priced guitars, not to mention plenty of eye candy for guitar fetishists 
(Lots of fun/quirky stuff under "other")






Home | Rumble Seat Music | Nashville


Rumble Seat Music. Rumble Seat Music is a trusted and world renowned purveyor of the finest vintage instruments available. We specialize in premium, American-made vintage guitars and amplifiers, and with over thirty years of experience we are one of the most trusted names in vintage guitars!




rumbleseatmusic.com


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## Sly (Jul 26, 2020)

I think if an instrument inspires you to push your creative boundaries then it is good value regardless of its cost (as long as the kids aren't going hungry because you bought it lol!). Thanks to manufacturing methods it is more difficult to find a really poor quality instrument these days compared to when mist of us started playing.


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## dgburns (Jul 26, 2020)

You can pay alot more for a guitar today than 30 years ago. There’s also more choice and price range. And as others have said, the low end is where the quality has come up a fair bit, I think mostly because of competition in the price range people are most likely to spend.

I take a rather unscientific approach to shopping. I consider buying if I sit down and ideas start coming out when I play the thing. I wrote half a soundtrack within 15 min of sitting down with a particular 8 strg. It was on the lower end of cost. No love with the higher end model.

I bought a Jeff Beck strat a few years back. It was a 30 sec buying decision, it was just a case of that guitar was coming home with me period. We bonded right away.

My late 80’s 1957 re-issue Les Paul Black beauty and I required about 25 years to get in the zone. That thing sounded ok when new (read midrange strong) but it has opened up in recent years into a way more open sound with a rainbow of nuance. Now we get along famously.

Like candy, you can’t have just one, lol.

Was deep into vintage for a while, but it not always a given that old means more desireable. I’ve played a few vintage dogs.

If you strap one on and it ‘speaks’ to you, priceless. Sometimes it’s instant, sometimes it takes a lifetime.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 26, 2020)

When I was about 17, I was heavily into Jimmy Page so i wanted a Les Paul Standard.

This was around 1975. I persuaded my dad to be my guarantor so i could get one on HP. He said ok, Fantastic! we wnt to the music shop and i spoke to the owner.
Now, he said to me, Les Pauls are great yeah but there is a new guitar out that in his opinion was better quality and in fact, Carlos Santana had just started using it. The Yamaha SG2000 Sunburst.





It's the same price as a Les Paul Standard which was around £550 back then.
He said, try the Les Paul then try the Yamaha and decide for yourself what one you want.

So i tried both. Now, as much as Jimmy Page was my hero and i wanted to look like him, the Yamaha felt a lot better to be honest. The craftmanship was top notch too. It just felt amazing to play so, i bought the Yamaha.

You never know untill you try something and compare it to something else.

And here is me playing it (i'm in the orange top) and i loved that guitar.


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## GtrString (Jul 27, 2020)

Guitar prices are all over the place. To my experience they are priced according to how much work the manufacturer has put into it, but that work does not always translate into a superior instrument. Often it is, though, once you have it set up properly. I think more expensive guitars are usually easier to set up, maybe due to the better quality components. Easier to get the sound you are looking for, if you know your tone.

That said, Ive sold every Gibson Ive had (4), due to ergonomics, tuning issues ect. I have a Reverend, which are priced like a Mexican Fender, and the Reverend’s quality is unrivalled by any guitar Ive ever had (20+). I also like Fenders, they come in all price ranges, are easy to set up and always has the right vibe.

But today the cat is out of the box, you can buy bodies, necks, parts and assemble a great guitar yourself, unbranded. Heck you can even draw up your own designs and have it cnc’d far east, and print your own parts with a 3D printer. So buying brands isnt as special as it once was, thats why vintage gtrs are sought after (you buy a part of history, not just a guitar).

So I think brands have lost some value, which prices should reflect. But they also do to some extent, as you get a lot of guitar for around 1k. No need to pay more these days.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 27, 2020)

Three years ago, i bought one of them kit guitars just to see what they where like. £100 and build youself. So, i sprayed it, bought some decals and put it all together. The Tree of Life inlays are actual inlays not decals.

Ok, it is a bit hard to play but with better parts and a bit of adjustments, it would be actually fine.
It does look the nuts though lol


View attachment Guitar Kit.mp4


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## charlieclouser (Jul 27, 2020)

If it's "just" a guitar, even if it's a super-fancy Les Paul or whatever, yeah... it does get to a point where it's a bit ridiculous. Beyond a certain point you're not buying sound or even playability, but buying really nice woodworking. Curly / Flame maple tops look beautiful, but do they sound better than the flat-black painted version? Not to my ears. I pick 'em by ear, not by eye.

It's a little different story when you're talking about different pickups / tuners / bridges, active electronics, and next-generation science-fiction stuff like sustainers, Variax engines, hex pickups, Paul Vo engines, etc. I'm definitely guilty of spending big on that stuff. But consider that even my Parker Adrian Belew cost less than that "normal" Les Paul in the first post - as nice as it is, compared to the cyber-guitar that the Belew is, it's "just" a guitar. When it comes to Les Pauls, give me one that feels, plays, and sounds good and I don't care what color it is.

But some folks will pick a guitar (or a car) for reasons other than the obvious functionality, and that's okay too. When it comes to a car, will the people you're driving to meet know or care whether you arrived in a Prius or a 1970 HemiCuda convertible? Not unless they were watching you pull up. Likewise, when people listen to the music you recorded, will they know or care whether you used that $6k Les Paul or a pawn-shop Epiphone? Again, not unless they were watching you record it.

Results, people, it's all about results. (Unless it's not.)


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## ProfoundSilence (Jul 27, 2020)

I used to go for mid end guitars, and played on a lot of cheap guitars. That said, I did decide to pick up a YJM strat when switching to 6 string, and all in all - it lived up to the price tag. Like with anything - you reach a point where you're well into diminishing returns, but from top to bottom it was just well built. Granted that's only 1650$, but it does feel like corners weren't cut - unlike the JS100 which I was happy to get rid of.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 27, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> Results, people, it's all about results. (Unless it's not.)


Of course, but what i'm saying is the results of todays cheaper guitars match the results of todays expensive guitars pretty well.

Back in the day, everyone wanted to 'sound like' Hedrix, Peter Green, Clapton and so on and the only way to have done theat in them days was buy the guitars they had. 

Now you can sound like that with cheap guitars. The look of a guitar is just down to the taste of the guitarist.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 27, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I used to go for mid end guitars, and played on a lot of cheap guitars. That said, I did decide to pick up a YJM strat when switching to 6 string, and all in all - it lived up to the price tag. Like with anything - you reach a point where you're well into diminishing returns, but from top to bottom it was just well built. Granted that's only 1650$, but it does feel like corners weren't cut - unlike the JS100 which I was happy to get rid of.


I had a JS1000 and it was beautiful specially for £1400 Now i still have a JS100 and i still like it to be honest. I just put a Mojo pu on the bridge and it's fine.


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## Mornats (Jul 27, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> If it's "just" a guitar, even if it's a super-fancy Les Paul or whatever, yeah... it does get to a point where it's a bit ridiculous. Beyond a certain point you're not buying sound or even playability, but buying really nice woodworking. Curly / Flame maple tops look beautiful, but do they sound better than the flat-black painted version? Not to my ears. I pick 'em by ear, not by eye.



Yep, spot on. The only exception I'd make is if that fancy woodwork inspires you to pick up the guitar and want to make music moreso than a regular-looking one then maybe it's worth the extra money.


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## Loïc D (Jul 27, 2020)

I had the great pleasure to try a 57’ Strat and it was an amazing experience.
Wanted to run off the shop with it.

I saw another collection of incredible instruments in Japan (those guys know their stuff). You can actually try them (with handkerchief on your tummy).
Most expensive was a 40.000€ Strat signed by Clapton (with a 00-something serial).

To answer the OP, nowadays cheap guitars have a good quality so yes, some branded guitars are a tad overpriced


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## JohnG (Jul 27, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> That said all of the major guitar brands have really declined in quality over the decades. That quality decline goes back a LONG time, but with each successive decade the decline is noticeably worse. You really notice it when you handle guitars from all decades day in and out... Even the same guitar models made in the early to mid 80s are a lot nicer compared to more recent ones.



This is quite interesting, as I bought my Stratocaster in 1987, so maybe that was lucky? They convinced me to get the one with supposedly much better pickups so I did (had a job then!) and it still sounds nice to me.

Maybe just lucky? Maybe the amp makes more difference in my particular case?



Keith Theodosiou said:


> When I was about 17, I was heavily into Jimmy Page so i wanted a Les Paul Standard...



That is a great story, Keith! My first guitar cost I think $45 from a pawn shop. Probably way overpaid.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 27, 2020)

JohnG said:


> That is a great story, Keith! My first guitar cost I think $45 from a pawn shop. Probably way overpaid.


My first was £15, my second was £50 Black LP copy by Avon lol my third was £250 LP copy by Ibanez and then that's when i bought the Yamaha SG2000


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 27, 2020)

Loïc D said:


> I had the great pleasure to try a 57’ Strat and it was an amazing experience.
> Wanted to run off the shop with it.
> 
> I saw another collection of incredible instruments in Japan (those guys know their stuff). You can actually try them (with handkerchief on your tummy).
> ...


Yeah those 'vintage' guitars where definately quality back then. That's why they feel so good, plus they have been well bedded by now.

Imagine how Kirk Hammett feels owning 'Greenie', jammy git lol


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## KEM (Jul 27, 2020)

Yes absolutely, anything by Fender, Gibson, or any older brand is incredibly overpriced, you’re paying for the name, but you’re not getting anything special. A lot of newer companies are making amazing, completely custom instruments for much cheaper than established brands and they’re of much higher build quality and have much more luxury features.

Check out Aristides, my favorite guitar brand by far and I plan on ordering a custom build from them in the near future:https://aristidesinstruments.com/


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 27, 2020)

KEM said:


> Check out Aristides, my favorite guitar brand by far and I plan on ordering a custom build from them in the near future:https://aristidesinstruments.com/


I remember when they launched a few years back. My initial reaction was WOW! lol


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## ynwtf (Jul 27, 2020)

Personally, I feel the expense is more for the craft of a build, material, etc., than any *practical *gain in function. I am sure there are subtleties in intonation, balance, etc., but diminishing returns and such compared to what you as the player may need, want, or even perceive.

That said, my standards are low and I realize I would not likely appreciate those subtle improvements as a player. I would, however, love to have a handmade acoustic guitar and would be willing to pay a premium for that. As a "piece" of art, sort of, or a collectible type of perspective. Electric? Not so much.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 27, 2020)

ynwtf said:


> That said, my standards are low and I realize I would not likely appreciate those subtle improvements as a player. I would, however, love to have a handmade acoustic guitar and would be willing to pay a premium for that. As a "piece" of art, sort of, or a collectible type of perspective. Electric? Not so much.


Yeah i agree there, with acoustic, you can't change the sound with picups, the sound comes from the build and wood so the more expensive, generally the better quality and sound. The acoustic has to be built with quality for playability as there are no real setup aids.


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## FlyingAndi (Jul 27, 2020)

Most of my guitars are in the $1000 range.
My most expensive guitar is a Parker Fly Supreme. While it is an amazing instrument, perfectly built with some (at the time) groundbreaking ideas, I cannot say that I enjoy playing it more (or less) than the last guitar I bought, a $300 baby blue Strat copy. I was actually surprised of the quality you can get today for that price.
I love all of my guitars. One of them is a JS100 (which was already mentioned twice in this thread).
Like @Keith Theodosiou I also switched the pickups on that one (for a PAF Pro and Fred) which made a big difference. It's probably the guitar I use the most. (The tremolo could be better, though).


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## KEM (Jul 27, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> I remember when they launched a few years back. My initial reaction was WOW! lol



They’re an incredible brand!! One of the few where I think the prices they charge are absolutely worth it, everything is extremely high quality and built to perfection. My friend recently got one and it’s by far the best guitar I’ve ever played.


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## gsilbers (Jul 27, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> So, i am saying this because of what i experienced.
> 
> In my time i have had loads of guitars, Yamaha, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez and so on.
> 
> ...




Well, that also specific to gibson's business plan. And the obvious bankruptcy that followed.

They had their run decades ago with high end les pauls selling great. Once china manufacturing started to catch up in quality, Gibson kinda said lets sell epiphones as the cheap brand and leas paul as high quality...

but somewhere in that period theuy upped the quality of the epiphones and yep.. as many poeple like you and me realized.. making a guitar is not rocket science or dificult as it was 30 years ago. now china can make pretty good guitars and les pauls started to look like they shoudnt have been that expensive to begin with... maybe some emotional attachment, brand loyalty etc helped.
Might be the realization that paying chinese manufacturing is a lot cheaper than paying US manufacturers. And nowaays its hard to say US made is "better" when we are typing on our chinese made iphones, taiwanese cpu and gpu desktops or south korean samsungs.

But still, a Gibsons from 1959 or 1969 will fetch for a lot of money.. not realy because they are better though. but because of the emotional attachedment and brand.

Same with mic preamps and microphones. like if it was dificult for chinese manufacturing to reproduce a tech from WW2 like neuman or neve preamps (1970s). But we convinced ourselves that neuman and vintage neve should cost 2000+ while warm audio or gap can sound exactly the same for most seasoned engineers. Every time there is a blind shootout at gearlsutz and no one can tell the difference from waves ssl compressor to a vintage ssl compressor to a 2200 compressor...

So i think it goes along with how music works. we are faimilair and confortable and the higher marketing powers made it be so we like specific music and and bands so we will like simialr bands or bands formed by memebers of said bands. familiaristy and emotional connection.


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## GP_Hawk (Jul 27, 2020)

No doupt there are some gems out there under $1000.xx I have a few. A 1983 black Srtat Elite I picked up for $650. The electronics were stripped out of it but it still had the lace sensors in it. Playability on this guitar was amazing but the pickups sounded like s#@! without the original electronics. So I wrote fender a nice email seeing if I could get the original electronics.. treble boost and all. And this surprised me but 3 weeks later, I received the original kit from fender with a note..."Hope this does the trick..." free of charge! 
Anyways installed all the original components, but ended up putting dimarzio area 57, 63, and a chopper in the bridge. 
I know a guy that collects custom shop fenders, gibsons, suhrs and has 40 + of them and he absolutely loves this guitar😁


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## Stringtree (Jul 27, 2020)

Louis, that's an extraordinarily pretty guitar... Or was. I'll bet it was heavy!

I bought a chipped American Tele off the floor at the Guitar Center for a big discount, and it's been my favorite. Instead of the neck being studded with sharp fret bits, it feels like soapstone. The sound is pure and it's got a lot of sustain. 

My favorite effect to occur is when the guitar goes away and there's just the playing and the music. A cranky guitar often reminds me of itself and breaks that connection. 

I think the same about microphones. When the mic goes away, it's doing a great job. A mic can be made by robots, but there's still some craft in building and setting up a guitar that lets a player just play.


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## NekujaK (Jul 27, 2020)

A good friend of mine is a world class guitar player. Besides doing session work and touring with bands for decades, he's the go-to guitar guy for a fairly prominent boutique blues label, who send him tracks by bands they're recording, to have him replace and/or add guitar parts. He can play just about anything. For a couple of years, I took lessons from him, just to apply some structure on my sloppy self-taught chops and maybe hoping some of his magic might rub off on me 

I've only ever owned Strats and Teles, but a while back, was working on a project where I really needed a humbucker guitar, plus it was high time I owned one anyway. So after a little research, I decided on a cheap Korean PRS model - I think it was less than $300. It's a decent guitar, and for someone with my mediocre skills and sporadic need to play parts, it fit the bill perfectly.

Shortly after I got it, I brought to my friend to have him check it out. I don't have to tell you what happened... the second he got it into his hands, he made it scream, wail, chug, cry, and shred in ways I could only dream of. If I closed my eyes, I wouldn't be able to tell he was playing a budget guitar.

At some point, talent eclipses any limitations a less expensive instrument might have. That's not to say there aren't bad guitars out there, but if the frets are true, it stays in tune, has decent pickups, and is assembled well, any decent guitar player can make it work. I mean after all, the original guitar EVH cobbled together for himself (the Frankenstrat) was certainly not a piece of high-end craftsmanship. He just got the basics right, and the rest was all Eddie.

Incidentally, my friend owns over 50+ guitars, but his absolute favorite - the one he uses as often as possible - is an early 1960s Strat with standard pickups. He sanded all the paint off the body, allowing the moisture in the wood to completely evaporate, resulting in the lightest electric guitar I've ever held - it's even lighter than my Ovation acoustic. The light wood gives it a really lively resonance and saves his back when playing gigs.


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## PaulieDC (Jul 27, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> When I was about 17, I was heavily into Jimmy Page so i wanted a Les Paul Standard.
> 
> This was around 1975. I persuaded my dad to be my guarantor so i could get one on HP. He said ok, Fantastic! we wnt to the music shop and i spoke to the owner.
> Now, he said to me, Les Pauls are great yeah but there is a new guitar out that in his opinion was better quality and in fact, Carlos Santana had just started using it. The Yamaha SG2000 Sunburst.
> ...


OH MAN, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A PICTURE OF MY BAND BACK THEN. 😂


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## PaulieDC (Jul 27, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> What are your thoughts and experiences?


Played electric YEARS ago then hung it up in the 90’s. In 2014 a couple folks in church asked if I could play acoustic guitar for them while they sang. I borrowed one, got the hands going again and got through it. My wife says “You play very well, YOU need to find and purchase a nice acoustic” (did I marry the right girl or what??).

Cut to the chase: I normally hate acoustics, so hard to play, but I got sold on a Yamaha A series due to YouTube. 800 bucks, and I thought that was a huge price, but the Mrs said “hit a store and try it out”. December 2014 I went to Guitar Center in Scottsdale (great acoustic room, you can try tons of guitars) and there it was, had a glowing halo around it. Until I played it. The neck felt like a 42 oz. Dick Allen bat and there was that midrange honky dated acoustic sound...YUK. So disappointed. I saw a Gibson that was $1100, tried that. Same thing, felt chunky, hard to play, dated sound. Saw a $1400 Martin, and after playing that with the same experience, I concluded that I’m a loser and it’s just me. Went to walk out, and saw this $2800 Taylor 714ce hanging on the wall, there was no room in the expensive glass case where higher end guitars normally live. I actually got TICKED. Why on earth would anyone charge $2800 and how good can it be?? RIDICULOUS. I pulled it down to play it so CONVINCED this was completely ridiculous to charge this much... and... oh my GOODNESS, the neck was like my best friend all my life. The TONE, even being rosewood, was nothing like I ever heard. It was so easy to play! Had a wider 1.75” nut for my Big weird hands. But the tone... and I then said OH GREAT, I found the blasted guitar of my dreams and it’s nearly 3 grand. There goes that idea. Came home and told my wife what happened and I reasoned that we cannot spend 3 grand on a guitar. She gave me that look over her glasses and said “Excuse me, the Lord can’t provide?”, and I can’t argue that so the plan was in place. Not sure when and how, but...

Two weeks later I’m watching the NAMM 2015 review vids and Mick from Guitarist Mag Did a video on these new Taylor 600 series maple acoustics, where they discarded the idea of bracing the maple like it was rosewood and completely redesigned to let the maple breathe, reasoning that orchestral instruments are maple and spruce so guitar makers have been bracing Maple wrong all these years. The result was so good that these things were w huge hit at NAMM. I was playing the vid where Mick is playing the huge Maple 618e and my wife walks in the office and says “WHAT GUITAR IS THAT??”. I explained it all, and she said That’s the one. And it is, the tone is like nothing else, it’s like a grand piano of guitars. Sweetwater had it for $78 a month for three years, and boom, we spend $2799 so I could play guitar. 5 years later, it still amazes me as soon as I pick it up. Oh, about the Lord providing... The guitar came in April (had to be ordered) and that same month two people in my church approached me about giving them guitar lessons (New venture for me). $80 a month for the two of them, then a few more joined in. The guitar was paid for by lessons, even after claiming it in taxes, in under two years. I never spent 5 bucks out of pocket. That makes this instrument even more special and worth every penny.

Yikes, that was long... sorry!


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## charlieclouser (Jul 27, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> Of course, but what i'm saying is the results of todays cheaper guitars match the results of todays expensive guitars pretty well.
> 
> Back in the day, everyone wanted to 'sound like' Hedrix, Peter Green, Clapton and so on and the only way to have done theat in them days was buy the guitars they had.
> 
> Now you can sound like that with cheap guitars. The look of a guitar is just down to the taste of the guitarist.



Exactly. There are certain guitars that I love the look of, which draw me to pick them up, but that I find uncomfortable or difficult to play (I'm looking at you, Explorer and Flying V!).

It's almost like there's two separate worlds co-exisitng - the amazing curly maple finishes and beautiful craftsmanship in high-end guitars, and what the experience is when you're playing with your eyes closed.

Sure, there's some overlap - you don't want chintzy tuners, a bridge that's difficult to adjust, or a body shape that feels unbalanced or uncomfortable (I'm looking at you, upper horn on the Parker Fly!), but the aspects that let me get into the zone when playing are often not the things that you'd even notice just by looking at the thing hanging on the wall at the shop.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> Played electric YEARS ago then hung it up in the 90’s. In 2014 a couple folks in church asked if I could play acoustic guitar for them while they sang. I borrowed one, got the hands going again and got through it. My wife says “You play very well, YOU need to find and purchase a nice acoustic” (did I marry the right girl or what??).
> 
> Cut to the chase: I normally hate acoustics, so hard to play, but I got sold on a Yamaha A series due to YouTube. 800 bucks, and I thought that was a huge price, but the Mrs said “hit a store and try it out”. December 2014 I went to Guitar Center in Scottsdale (great acoustic room, you can try tons of guitars) and there it was, had a glowing halo around it. Until I played it. The neck felt like a 42 oz. Dick Allen bat and there was that midrange honky dated acoustic sound...YUK. So disappointed. I saw a Gibson that was $1100, tried that. Same thing, felt chunky, hard to play, dated sound. Saw a $1400 Martin, and after playing that with the same experience, I concluded that I’m a loser and it’s just me. Went to walk out, and saw this $2800 Taylor 714ce hanging on the wall, there was no room in the expensive glass case where higher end guitars normally live. I actually got TICKED. Why on earth would anyone charge $2800 and how good can it be?? RIDICULOUS. I pulled it down to play it so CONVINCED this was completely ridiculous to charge this much... and... oh my GOODNESS, the neck was like my best friend all my life. The TONE, even being rosewood, was nothing like I ever heard. It was so easy to play! Had a wider 1.75” nut for my Big weird hands. But the tone... and I then said OH GREAT, I found the blasted guitar of my dreams and it’s nearly 3 grand. There goes that idea. Came home and told my wife what happened and I reasoned that we cannot spend 3 grand on a guitar. She gave me that look over her glasses and said “Excuse me, the Lord can’t provide?”, and I can’t argue that so the plan was in place. Not sure when and how, but...
> 
> ...


It may have been a long story but it was definately an amazing story!!


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## Keith Theodosiou (Jul 27, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> OH MAN, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A PICTURE OF MY BAND BACK THEN. 😂


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## C.Franzén (Aug 2, 2020)

For me, nothing beats this Fender Telecaster 72 with Humbuckers. so versatile and playable


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## Mornats (Aug 2, 2020)

Humbuckers on a Tele? Snap out of it man!


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## sumVI (Aug 2, 2020)

When I was a kid, I had the luxury of practicing with a band in the basement of a local music store. Every instrument in that store was at my disposal. Discovering that the guitar I preferred to play, due to feel and sound, was an obscure brand name vs all the big name brand guitars available was a revelation. When shopping instruments, I always keep this in mind.

The 350 pound ESP was priceless because @OP loved it.


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## artomatic (Aug 2, 2020)

To me, it's all about tone and playability in any price range. I do have a collection of Ibanez, Gibsons and Fenders and a few designer guitars (James Tyler, Valley Arts, etc.) but bottom line is the sound that goes down on tape eventually. That's when any guitar, affordable or expensive, shines.


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## wst3 (Aug 2, 2020)

First, I am sorry for your loss - that is way too young!

And yes, there is a rule of thumb that one should not make major decisions after a major loss, but in this case I think it does not apply.

You like the guitar, you didn't risk your mortgage, I say go for it!

I own several guitars, including a 68 Les Paul Standard which I purchased used in 1980, it is my main electric guitar, and a b-bender Tele(ish) I built from parts, and a Mexi Strat that I absolutely love, after I replaced all the hardware, the wood was good!

If I had the means I'd love to own a custom shop Les Paul, probably based on a gold top from the late 50s, but it wouldn't make me a better player (or would it?), it would, however, make me happy since I had a 68 gold top stolen decades ago.

Are they over-priced? I don't know, but I think I'll stick with my "if you can afford it, and it makes you happy then it is not over-priced" theory.

I've only spent a lot on one guitar, a Santa Cruz D/PW with Brazillian Rosewood sides and back. This thing sounds like a pre-war Martin D-28, and plays better than most of the pre-war Martins I've played. I love it. My wife had to twist my arm to get me to buy it - no lie. We were doing well, and she knew I really wanted something like this, so she encouraged me to buy it. I don't regret it at all (although I did for a few days, $3500 is a LOT of money!) I don't know that I'd spend that much again.

So no, after all that I don't think over-priced is an accurate description, expensive is. Is it twice as good as a guitar costing half as much? Probably not. Is it twice as valuable to you? Probably it is.


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## Keith Theodosiou (Aug 2, 2020)

artomatic said:


> To me, it's all about tone and playability in any price range. I do have a collection of Ibanez, Gibsons and Fenders and a few designer guitars (James Tyler, Valley Arts, etc.) but bottom line is the sound that goes down on tape eventually. That's when any guitar, affordable or expensive, shines.


Yes that is very true. When i first started out, no matter what cheap guitar i ever bought due to lack of funds in them days, even if the guitar was hard to play cos you could limbo under the strings lol, the first thing i always used to do was go and buy a set of Di Marzio humbuckers for it. At that time, they where pretty much the best choice for guitarists that didn't have much money but boy, did they drastically change the sound of that guitar!


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## Keith Theodosiou (Aug 2, 2020)

wst3 said:


> First, I am sorry for your loss - that is way too young!
> 
> 
> So no, after all that I don't think over-priced is an accurate description, expensive is. Is it twice as good as a guitar costing half as much? Probably not. Is it twice as valuable to you? Probably it is.


Thanks for that! 

When i say 'overpriced' i am looking at things like say that PRS that was stolen from my local shop.

10 grand for an electric guitar. It's wood, it has pickups, it has control knobs and so on. Why then is it priced at 10 grand. That is what i don't get.

When i think of overpriced guitars, i think of guitars like Peter Greens LP, the history of it, the iconic songs it played on, the iconic guitarists that owned it, so that kind of over pricing, i do understand but a brand new guitar that is similar to thousands of other brand new guitars but they put a 10 grand tag on it.
If people want to pay that, that's their choice.

I bought that Custom Shop LP because i had the chance to own one before i die and i took it.

I would never do it again though


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## C.Franzén (Aug 3, 2020)

Mornats said:


> Humbuckers on a Tele? Snap out of it man!


believe me - its a match made in heaven!

Here is an example, along with the Fender Thinline Tele, also with wide range humbuckers. Its like a combination of a strat and a les paul (of which I have both).


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## Keith Theodosiou (Aug 3, 2020)

I mentioned earlier about my first guitars, this is just a story about one of them i thought i'd share lol

The Avon Les Paul copy. This was around 1976, i got it on the weekly in a Kays Catalogue for 50 quid.

At the time it was ok for me as i was still learning. So, i did the Di Marzio thing i mentioned and it did sound great.

This guitar was based on the black LP with cream bindings.

I was Jack the Lad! lol anyway, for some reason i still don't know why, i decided i wanted to change the body as when you looked in the electronics compartment, you could see it was made of cheap ply wood.

So, across the road from where i worked was a furniture carpenter. So i asked him if he could make me a body from solid wood and put everything from the Avon on to it. He agreed and said, i have to buy the wood for the body but he won't charge me for making the guitar as he had never done that before.

I picked the wood. A solid chunk of Teak. Teak?? Don't ask me why, i just don't know lol.

Anyway, he had it for a week and i went to pick it up. It did look the nuts, everything was in place and all measured so it was all where it should be.

BUT

When i got it home, i could not tune it. Play the chord E and the chord D was well out. Same with G and A. I just could not tune it.

I took it back to him and he did a bit of research. Now, what he found out was the nut to the 12th fret should be the same as the 12th fret to the bridge saddles. 

This is what we found out that messed it all up. When he done the measuing up, he didn't do it that way, he measured from the end of the neck to the centre of the bridge and what he forgot to take into account was the slite difference between a curved LP copy top and a dead flat Teak body lol.

So he plugged the bridge holes and measure the right way and re set the bridge.

Fantastic, worked a treat. Only one big problem, the weight of that solid 2" thick lump of teak used to kill my shoulder lmao.


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## Mornats (Aug 3, 2020)

C.Franzén said:


> believe me - its a match made in heaven!
> 
> Here is an example, along with the Fender Thinline Tele, also with wide range humbuckers. Its like a combination of a strat and a les paul (of which I have both).




A lot of the appeal of a tele for me is that single coil sound but damn, those humbucker teles sounded amazing. Fantastic track too (I'm off to find out myself, but do you have an album out at all?)

I'll take another look at teles with humbuckers on although I'm a bassist so might not end up getting one. Speaking of which, let's talk about why you should be using a P bass instead of that jazz in the video... (Just kidding, I have both and they're both great.)


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## Keith Theodosiou (Aug 3, 2020)

Mornats said:


> A lot of the appeal of a tele for me is that single coil sound but damn, those humbucker teles sounded amazing. Fantastic track too (I'm off to find out myself, but do you have an album out at all?)
> 
> I'll take another look at teles with humbuckers on although I'm a bassist so might not end up getting one. Speaking of which, let's talk about why you should be using a P bass instead of that jazz in the video... (Just kidding, I have both and they're both great.)


I do agree, a strat or tele have a unique twang or plucky type sound so if you want them sound,you leave it alone but if you really like the look and feel of a strat or tele but are more into the humbucker sound, then you can change the picups.

It's all about whatever floats your boat


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## Mornats (Aug 3, 2020)

Keith Theodosiou said:


> It's all about whatever floats your boat


This is my boat


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## Keith Theodosiou (Aug 3, 2020)

Mornats said:


> This is my boat


Then i'm on the same boat as you lol


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## C.Franzén (Aug 3, 2020)

Mornats said:


> A lot of the appeal of a tele for me is that single coil sound but damn, those humbucker teles sounded amazing. Fantastic track too (I'm off to find out myself, but do you have an album out at all?)
> 
> I'll take another look at teles with humbuckers on although I'm a bassist so might not end up getting one. Speaking of which, let's talk about why you should be using a P bass instead of that jazz in the video... (Just kidding, I have both and they're both great.)



I think they're so versatile it is so worth it. for some reason I've never really used my stratocaster in the studio that much. and thanks a lot, I've got a bunch of albums out actually, mostly in the instrumental post-rockish genre. 

Spotify: 

Please do tell me why I should get a P Bass! I have been so pleased with my jazz that I've never looked anywhere else to tell you the truth


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## SupremeFist (Aug 3, 2020)

C.Franzén said:


> believe me - its a match made in heaven!
> 
> Here is an example, along with the Fender Thinline Tele, also with wide range humbuckers. Its like a combination of a strat and a les paul (of which I have both).



I have a Billy Corgan signature Strat with three blade humbuckers instead of single coils, and that is also like a combination of a Strat and Les Paul.


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## Mornats (Aug 3, 2020)

C.Franzén said:


> I think they're so versatile it is so worth it. for some reason I've never really used my stratocaster in the studio that much. and thanks a lot, I've got a bunch of albums out actually, mostly in the instrumental post-rockish genre.
> 
> Spotify:
> 
> Please do tell me why I should get a P Bass! I have been so pleased with my jazz that I've never looked anywhere else to tell you the truth



Thanks, I've been listening to your work this afternoon and I really like it.

So, P basses. I got back into playing bass around 10 years ago and joined a few forums. Everyone would say that a P bass is the best, just get one and be done with buying them. I disagreed. I thought they looked boring, sounded generic and were just a normal standard bass that wasn't anything special. I preferred jazz basses (that burpy sound from the bridge pickup is amazing) and anything that sounded a bit more unique, a bit more "me".

A few years ago I was trying out a bass and said to my friend "I think this sounds a bit like a P bass" so I grabbed the closest one off the shelf to try. I played it and loved it. For some reason, it just sounded right to me. I was prejudiced against them and couldn't believe it. I went back the following week and bought it (it's the white one in my photo above).

I've used it at gigs "nice bass, lovely sound, really clear" was the response. I've used it on recordings and it sits in the mix perfectly. And that's the thing. A precision bass sits in a mix but also cuts through so the right tone can always be heard.

There are still places for other basses of course and a jazz would always be up there. What I've noticed is that a jazz will sound great on its own as the EQ has scooped mids, a sad face EQ and that tends to sound pleasant. A P bass has a little more in the mid-range which helps it cut through a mix but may not be as pleasant sounding (although it is to a lot of bass players).

Finally, remember that the sound of a band has grown around the sound of a P bass, as have mixes, so there's a lot of instruments being shaped around that bass tone, in my opinion anyway.

Now I rarely play my other basses, this one is the one that gets picked up.

Sorry if I make you buy a P bass. Mine is a Mexican Standard and is superb in every way. Perhaps a little less refined in build and a little heavier than a USA Fender but certainly not worth more than £1000 extra. Try one though, you may not like them and that's fine. Honest.


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## C.Franzén (Aug 3, 2020)

Mornats said:


> Thanks, I've been listening to your work this afternoon and I really like it.
> 
> So, P basses. I got back into playing bass around 10 years ago and joined a few forums. Everyone would say that a P bass is the best, just get one and be done with buying them. I disagreed. I thought they looked boring, sounded generic and were just a normal standard bass that wasn't anything special. I preferred jazz basses (that burpy sound from the bridge pickup is amazing) and anything that sounded a bit more unique, a bit more "me".
> 
> ...



well I just might need to try one then. I always like to play with a pick and really push the bass guitar with a lot of midrange saturation and eq in the mix to get it somewhat gnarly. so maybe its time the jazz got itself a sibling


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## Mornats (Aug 3, 2020)

Oh you have to get a mating pair for sure, that's how you end up with a couch-load of them.

A precision played with a pick has that classic rock tone. I love the sound of the saturation/distortion you have on the guitars in your video so have total faith that you'd do a bass justice. Speaking of distortion, have you tried Darkglass pedals for bass? I fell in love with the Vintage Microtubes but somehow managed to not buy one and get a cheaper Zander Sonos pedal instead.


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## C.Franzén (Aug 3, 2020)

Mornats said:


> Oh you have to get a mating pair for sure, that's how you end up with a couch-load of them.
> 
> A precision played with a pick has that classic rock tone. I love the sound of the saturation/distortion you have on the guitars in your video so have total faith that you'd do a bass justice. Speaking of distortion, have you tried Darkglass pedals for bass? I fell in love with the Vintage Microtubes but somehow managed to not buy one and get a cheaper Zander Sonos pedal instead.


I have never tried or even heard of those. might need to look into that when I get the urge to get down and dirty. but as a fellow bass-lover, getting it to sit just right with the drums can definitely make or break a mix, so always looking to improve. thanks for the tip!


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## Mornats (Aug 4, 2020)

Darkglass are based in Helsinki and have quite a range of bass distortion pedals. Really good stuff. Neural DSP also have a plugin that officially emulates the Vintage Microtubes and another of their pedals.

Glad to have been of help. I'm going to go rock out to your music whilst I work today


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## Leon Portelance (Aug 11, 2020)

i‘ve had my 1955 Les Paul since 1971, it’s a year younger than me.


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## davetbass (Aug 11, 2020)

Some guitars are definitely overpriced. While Gibson and Fender created the iconic designs and made great individual examples, things changed. You really have to look at the factory at the time, not the brand. Gibson and Fender struggled with quality since the 70's and Japanese companies stepped in to make better quality copies and then originals. My understanding of the Chinese Epiphones is that they are made in single brand factory as apposed to a sub contractor and do have a reputation for great quality. The best deals, if you a brave enough are 90's made in Japan shredder guitars from Ibanez or Jackson, they look like the horrible Korean ones, but are the function equivalent of the Ibanez Prestige line at around 20% of the price.


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## Rex282 (Aug 11, 2020)

I have 9 electric guitars

Fender 1991 Mexican strat
G&L Legacy Strat
Chinese Tele
Yamaha SA2000 335
Ephiphone Traditional Pro lll Plus Les Paul
Shechter Hellraiser
Chinese LP jr.
Ibanez ArtcoreAF75FM
Ibanez RG8

in total I paid $1750...........yes


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