# Avatar pics with Firearms



## Hannes_F (Oct 17, 2016)

Hi there,

this is a thread about the display of firearm pics in Avatars. In order to understand this thread here are some preliminary information about how it came about:

As of October 17 one of our users who has been a member since 2012 changed his avatar picture to a person holding a gun.





On November 3rd he wrote this first picture was not him holding the gun but a comedian of some sort. He now changed his avatar to this:







In the following I quote a private conversation that the user in question (Aoiichi) agreed on to publish in this thread:

"Hi there,
we moderators are wondering what it is about the guns in your avatars. Any explanation you would like to provide?
Thanks, Hannes"

His response:
"Hi Hannes,

Well, they are guns being held by somebody? I'm not sure what explanation is required. They haven't been used to kill anyone and are fully registered, if that's what you're wondering.

Cheers."

My message:
"Hi Aoiichi,
ok but is there a statement you want to make with this?

We are asking because it is just the second time somebody has used firearms in an avatar as far as I can remember. The other individual was a very problematic case with lots of trolling, provoking and threatening and all in all it led to the situation we had to ban him from the forum.

I think you certainly are a different case than him but you must understand that we are watching - as we should.

BTW a post of yours from today has been reported, so perhaps you might want to edit it yourself.

Regards, Hannes"

His answer:
"Hi Hannes,

There is not, it's simply an interest in mine as I have an interest in firearms and military technology, particularly planes as well. Of course I'm not here to troll or provoke anyone, but if people attack me then I will defend myself. In today's case, it seemed someone brought it up out of the blue when I didn't bring any mention to it, so of course I will defend myself when I am being attacked. Otherwise, it's just a picture of something I enjoy.

Cheers."

Hannes:
"Hmm. Perhaps you can try to not over-defend. There is a sort of forward defense  that can escalate if both parties do it if you know what I mean."

Aoiichi:
"Of course, sure. But as I'm explaining, it's simply a picture of something I enjoy. It seems that other members are keen to hallucinate that there is something offensive or poor taste about it- I'm not one to judge any of their hobbies- so as long as they do so, I'll respond in kind. If they'll be kind enough not to degrade the atmosphere any further it would probably benefit us all."

Later on November 3rd the avatar changed again:







Hannes, November 8th:
"Aoiichi,
as you know I stripped the Trump thread in the OT section from any comments about your avatar (your comments and those of other too). I moved all of them into a new thread and made that hidden.

Since we moderators are here to moderate and not to censor I am planning to make that thread public again by the end of the week. I think it could be the start of an interesting discussion.

I would like to introduce some background information and preliminary arguments into an opening post. For that case I would like to quote our exchange here (all of it). Is that OK for you?

Regards, Hannes"

Aoiichi on November 8th:
Hi Hannes,

That is fine by me, and I will not be taking part in the discussion- as I have repeatedly said, it is simply a profile picture of something I enjoy as a hobby. I'm not looking for an argument. If that implies to someone a political subtext that angers them, they are entitled to be so and I welcome them to complain or hyperventilate as much as they want in that thread instead of bringing the whole forum into disrepute (and their own reputations). They have already done much to do so, so in the interest of preventing further degradations on the forum I will no longer entertain their arguments. I will ignore it and deal with the issues that matter on this forum, which is composers helping composers. You may include this post as well, and it will be the stock response I say to anybody on the matter.

I appreciate your level-headedness and fairness in your moderation!"

==================================================

The following posts have been stripped from another thread where some discussion about the use of firearms in Avatar pictures unfolded.

Edit 18.11.2016: Since we mods are here to moderate, not to censor opinions, this thread is now moved to the Off Topic forum again. It will be closed for comments for a day or so in order to give all participants a chance to check whether their statements are still in context. After that it will be opened for giving our valued membership a place to discuss this topic.

*Update 20.11.2016* We have now clarity in this regard. The forum rules have been updated and from now on Firearms in avatars are not allowed in this forum.

Please take note of the corresponding paragraph as a whole:

"*2. Trolling is not welcome on VI.* What is a troll? By posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, an internet troll sows discord by starting arguments or upsetting people with a deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. It has also been equated recently with online harassment. _*Trolling also includes repeated posting of essentially the same point many times in the same thread, particularly if it is done so in a heated manner or denigrates other participants in the thread.*_ Make your point, clarify if necessary, and read others' perspective. We will respond to trolling by deactivating the member's account, logging their IP and informing their ISP. Some trolling practices are described ahead in #3 through #10.

*2b. Use of avatars to promote firearms is considered trolling.* These will be removed and continued misuse of avatars can lead to account deactivation."

Source:
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/guideline-rules-for-vi-control-forum-updated.3/


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Do you really need to be holding a gun in your picture? Seems of poor taste to me as well as provocative on a peaceful music forum. Maybe I should be holding a bazooka in my picture now.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> nice assumption, but if you had a bazooka I'd love to see it (I'm not talking about your pants btw)



No problem, here it is:


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Now I'm speechless.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

And this one? So it wasn't you on either of the 2 pictures?


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

So who's this dude? The current picture.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

About no more dead black children? Now why would anyone in his right mind disagree with that? I was't avoiding it, didn't think you were expecting an answer. Sorry.

It will be fun talking with you, but just leave your guns at the door.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

NRA supporter, huh? Do you carry a weapon when you go out?


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> i'm not a member of the NRA. please don't make such assumptions, they can be very offensive you know!



Um, you're proudly holding some kind of machine gun, and you say: Don't make assumptions.... Besides, I didn't ask if you were a member, I asked if you supported the NRA. You obviously have a fascination with riffles or you wouldn't put 2 pictures in a row of someone else and yourself holding guns. I'm just asking, don't get defensive about it.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> yes, you're learning- don't make assumptions! they can be troublesome. i'm not being defensive but you are being quite abnormally fascinated by this- i never made any mention of my rifles nor my avatar yet you brought it up out of the blue? very confusing, and you have been very persistent in your enquiries on it to the point where you refused to state there should be "no more dead black children". one of my hobbies is firearms and i have an interest in military technologies (especially planes... F9F's and F2H's are works of art). it seems very strange you would focus on and repeatedly question my interest in these, especially as i pointed out, it was out of nowhere... i mean, are you interested in bestiality, based on your picture?



Relax, put your guard down, I'm not the FBI


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> please do not appropriate black culture


Pease do not appropriate gun culture with your deliberate provocations. Please do find something positive to say about anything. Shalom, my undefined brethren.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

@Guy Bacos- so strange that you were fascinated why a guy would use a serious looking gun in his avatar.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> @Guy Bacos- so strange that you were fascinated why a guy would use a serious looking gun in his avatar.



Not fascinated, just thought it was of poor taste, that's all. And then asked him some questions, was curious. I'm more comfortable with avatars of people holding flutes and clarinets than machine guns.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

Me too. I was being sarcastic. Not a lot of gun avatars on music sites.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> Me too. I was being sarcastic. Not a lot of gun avatars on music sites.



Upon reading it again, I see the sarcasm.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> i'm still failing to see your issue- it's very common for people to use avatars of things they enjoy on forums. i am sorry if you're hallucinating something offensive, but that's your insecurity, not mine.



I know you can't shoot me from an avatar, but I think it's of poor taste, without elaborating on this, doesn't mean I'm insecure.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

Again-to the topic? Or are you going to whine more about the unfairness of people hating your avatar, or are you going to call me some more names from the dangerous space behind your screen?


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> why would you assume i'd shoot you for being annoying? again, you are welcome to your own insecure projections, but as Larry points out, it would probably not be a good idea to derail the thread further because of them.



Ok, one final thing, I'm not the only one offended by your avatar. So now let's put this to rest.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 2, 2016)

Aolichi is a simple troll. This is not the first time.

I suggest everyone just ignore him and his stupid gun avatars.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

So you ARE going to whine more about it, and you're NEVER going to address the topic. Ok then.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> you shouldn't get so offended at other people's hobbies or pictures of them with things they enjoy on the internet! that hatred and anger isn't good for your soul!



Thank you Father!


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

Poor Aoi-suffering the slings and arrows of an unfair Internet with nothing but a large gun and no appreciable content.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Our souls will all be happier as soon as you get back on topic!!!!


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

::sob:::leave my gun avatar ALOOOONE :::sob:::


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## Soundhound (Nov 2, 2016)

[EDIT] Moderator: Please stop calling names to members, thank you [/EDIT]


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> as you were the one to originally derail it for 3 pages, i'm not sure you should be trying to make any statements on that



Ok then, why not keep this going for another 10 pages? This is getting as crazy as the elections.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

Hmm. I've never used ignore either nor asked a mod to bounce anyone and I ain't starting now. Time to just skip over posts, I guess. Bye now, Aoi.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

A Bugs Bunny quote is clearly called for here.


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## Soundhound (Nov 2, 2016)

Hey someone who loves guns and is really stupid, now there's a surprise. Cliches are cliches for a reason. Larry are you really not hitting the ignore button?


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

Really. I don't have to hit an ignore button to ignore someone. That dude no longer has a place in my world.

To your statement about guns and stupid though, 'hound, my son, who recently returned from Afghanistan, likes guns. He likes the mechanics and precision of them, and I have plenty of friends from upstate who are hunters and own rifles. Again, I don't generalize. I understand why people own guns to hunt for food, to target shoot, and to a lesser extent, for home protection, although I find arsenal building bizarre and distressing and trophy hunting totally disgusting.

Thing is, my son also understands the issue of guns in America. He has a balanced viewpoint about it because I raised him to be a reasonable person, seeing multiple sides of issues, and he is not deliberately provocative for sport on the fuckin Internet.


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## Soundhound (Nov 2, 2016)

Okay this will be an interesting exercise in self restraint for yours truly. When faced with a troll, can I skip over the posts? As we've discussed, I'm not as highly evolved as you are. Let's see how long I last. 

I was about to mention the status of game 7, but don't want to give even the suggestion of a hint to anyone who's taping it. Restraint, I can do this!



NYC Composer said:


> Really.


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## Red (Nov 2, 2016)

Lol. I never thought this thread could get funnier.

I see a lot of alt-right talking points and tactics from Aoiichi. Seeming like a troll is part of the getup. 

But he's definitely trolling you guys with the gun. Lol. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a plastic version of the AWP?


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## NYC Composer (Nov 2, 2016)

Lol!


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2016)

Red said:


> Lol. I never thought this thread could get funnier.
> 
> I see a lot of alt-right talking points and tactics from Aoiichi. Seeming like a troll is part of the getup.
> 
> ...



He changed avatars a few times in the last hour, the last one, before this one, looked like a real machine gun and kind of in your face.


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## Soundhound (Nov 3, 2016)

Guns kill people. Guns should be illegal. Words can hurt, but you have to look at intent. No harm intended, no foul.


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 3, 2016)

Guy Bacos said:


> Oh come on now! We're not going to get in a debate of what's politically correct on every word we say, are we? People have used certain expressions all their lives



And people have been using guns for hundreds of years, and for good things as well as bad. Or do you not think that defending citizens against crime is a good thing? What about defense of the country? What about farmers who protect their cows and sheep from wolves? And what about people who defend themselves and family from armed assailants/intruders?

Are you offended by a photo of a steak knife? How about a rope? Or even a car? All of these have and will continue to be used to kill people.



Guy Bacos said:


> they can't convert 100% all the time to what's politically correct today



But it's OK to expect other people to conform to your politically correct viewpoint?



Guy Bacos said:


> The gun is a different issue, and was unanimous.


It was not unanimous. I didn't find it offensive, and I would reckon several other members would not either. Do you seriously find a photo of a gun more offensive than carelessly using a term that offends millions of people with mental disability? You come on!


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 3, 2016)

Michael, I came on this thread to have some fun discussing the* "presidential debate"*. I'm sorry if you feel I was out of line, but I have no intention of arguing this here, it gets nowhere, especially after this waste of time we just had with "machine gun Aoiichi". I see in your avatar your little lego guy is holding a bazooka, although it's just a toy, maybe you didn't dig my comment with this guy, whatever it is, keep me out of it.


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 3, 2016)

Guy Bacos said:


> Michael, I came on this thread to have some fun discussing the presidential debate. I have no intention of arguing this here, it gets nowhere, especially after this waste of time we just had with "machine gun man".



Which you started. Can you not see the irony in all this?



Guy Bacos said:


> I see in your avatar your little lego guy is holding a bazooka, although it's just a toy, maybe you didn't dig my comment with this guy, whatever it is, keep me out of it.



Keep you out of it, you say. Now that your "offense" has been called out. OK, I will, since it's obvious the point sailed right over your head.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 3, 2016)

Michael, I'd invite you to open a separate thread: "Gun control vs gun rights" since you seem highly sensitive on the subject.


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## Soundhound (Nov 3, 2016)

I didn't find the gun avatar offensive. I thought it suggested that the person who had that avatar liked guns. I though it was stupid, because I think having a gun fetish is stupid. Get another fucking hobby. One that doesn't kill people.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 3, 2016)

I don't like it either, and I am offended by it.


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## Baron Greuner (Nov 4, 2016)

I found it odd. But then again we English are not easily offended. Odd though.

Cheesus! You moronic imbeciles! How many times do I got to tell ya these tv fucks all have an agenda. They are the ones that win elections although its enormous fun when it backfires up their ass. Like the Brexit vote for example. But they haven't given up. They still might win that one.


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## Hannes_F (Nov 6, 2016)

FYI gentlemen: I have split the discussion about firearms in avatars into an extra thread. That thread is hidden for reviewing purpose right now.


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## Hannes_F (Nov 6, 2016)

FYI gentlemen: I have split the discussion about firearms in avatars into an extra thread. That thread is hidden for reviewing purpose right now.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 6, 2016)

Hannes,

I hope you haven't been taken in by the guy using the gun avatar as being some sort of "free speech" advocate. I see him as an Internet provocateur who is not really interested in a comprehensive dialogue.

An analogy-let's say I am an avid hunter. I enjoy clubbing baby seals to death. I put a photo of my recent kill, holding up the corpse of the seal. Assuming it's legal, is that okay?

Every community defines the limits of tolerance within it. Is proudly holding up a weapon, not a hunting weapon or a target-specific weapon, ok?

Certainly a topic to ponder.


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 6, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> Still voting for McMullin, Michael? You've gone dark again.


I was here, mucking it up over the gun photo issue. 
I voted, and it was for McMullin or Castle. I like them both, and I hope McMullin is able to pull this off.


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 6, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> An analogy-let's say I am an avid hunter. I enjoy clubbing baby seals to death. I put a photo of my recent kill, holding up the corpse of the seal. Assuming it's legal, is that okay?


That analogy fails because it's nothing like the photo in question. Or are ya'll referring to a different photo than the one I see? Because the one I see is just some French dude holding a gun.
Tell me Larry, did you take offense at the guy who used the term "retard" as an insult?


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## Hannes_F (Nov 6, 2016)

I have moved more posts regarding weapons in avatars to the split off (and currently hidden) thread.

Please, if you want to discuss the specific topic of firearms in avatars then set up a new and proper thread of its own in that regard. We moderators are actually waiting to read about all member's opinions in a proper, not messed up thread. We did discuss the topic internally but decided we will not open such a thread but leave that to the membership - as a test whether the issue is important enough to you.

And, if possible, if such a thread should come into existence, fill it with as much arguments and as less emotion due to provocation as possible. But do us a favor and stop discussing it in this thread where it would be buried in > 200 pages that no sane member would wade through. Thank you.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 6, 2016)

Hannes, I think you fail to see the real problem here. Anyone has the right to post his avatar holding a machine gun or whatever weapon, and I can't stop him from doing that, I'm just a poster here, but at the same time, I have the right to say in a civilized manner, which I did, I find it offensive, and we move on. So the problem is, it seems we aren't allowed to move on, because I said this, and I certainly won't apologize for something I don't believe in. Hannes, just look at the quantity of posts Aoiicho posted to complain. That's all he does.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 6, 2016)

I cannot see why any of this is germane to the topic. As the OP, I would ask that other than genial off topic branches, this thread be responsive to "The Year of Trump" for the next few days, after which I shall be ending my participation in this thread.That would be the civil thing to do. Thank you.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 6, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> Guy, the problem is, that was not the topic of this thread, nor was it even brought up as a topic in the thread... you simply reacted to another user's profile, in other words it was personal to you, and made the thread about your personal offensiveness, when the thread was not about you. You should have either used a PM, or made a new topic, instead of derail a currently existing one.



Aoiichi, you keep repeating over and over and over, that other people take offence to anything you say, and they have a problem, read my typing: They don't! They are just tired of your ranting! And stop playing Dr Phil!


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 6, 2016)

Dear Moderator, Aoiichi has posted surely over 100 posts in this thread and not a single one related to the topic: "The Year of Trump". Why can't he just be removed?


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## NYC Composer (Nov 6, 2016)

That is a fair question.


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## Hannes_F (Nov 6, 2016)

Gentlemen, all of you that we know each other for long, you know that I value you very much.

That being said please realize that currently you help the moderation being taken to where it should not been taken to if you understand what I mean. You help that sort of subtle abuse if you

- continue posting off topic in this thread instead of opening new threads about serious issues
- respond emotionally instead of calm and rationally and by that give away handles to report your posts
- formulate ad hominem criticisms (targeting specific persons instead of general behaviour patterns)
- start to criticize the mods in order to vent

Thus I would please ask you to

- stay on topic in this thread
- bring forth rational arguments in new threads if something is serious
- avoid ad hominem criticisms
- make the mod's job not more complicated than it is

Thank you.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 6, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> This is a very dishonest post, Guy. I have been saying lately: Vi-C is a great place because it is civil, and derailing threads because you have a problem with another user's profile is not a good thing. Again, please try to get this back on topic, and in the future, if you have a personal problem/triggered by something in another user's profile, I think it would be better to perhaps PM that person instead of taking over a thread to publically try and do it.
> 
> Guy, I would have no problem with both my and your posts about my avatar being removed. I did not wish to make them, but as you decided to specifically bring up the topic, change the topic to it, and address me, I thought it was polite to respond.



I'll PM you once you'll have 50 posts relating to the topic.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 6, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> this thread should get back on topic.



So go, say something about Trump or Hillary.


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## Hannes_F (Nov 6, 2016)

Guy Bacos said:


> Dear Moderator, Aoiichi has posted surely over 100 posts in this thread and not a single one related to the topic: "The Year of Trump". Why can't he just be removed?


Because he is clever enough to respond rationally and stay within the forum rules. We can not remove a forum member just because we don't like his avatar or his opinions about it. That been said Aoiichi has contributed to lots of music related topics over the course of years, and in an unsuspicious way. The number of post of his that have been reported is about one or two. Nobody really complained about him except in this thread. So why could we ban him?

The only thing we could do would be to have a general new forum rule about firearms in avatars. For that we would need a thorough discussion with a broad majority of members. Not just three or four members complaining "by the way" in a thread that has already seen all sort of less serious posts.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 6, 2016)

When you have over 100 posts that are totally off topic, with not a single one on topic, I would think there should be some kind of warning to that person. I mean isn't that the point of making you own thread?


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## Hannes_F (Nov 19, 2016)

*Update 20.11.2016* We have now clarity in this regard. The forum rules have been updated and from now on firearms in avatars are not allowed any more in VI-Control.

Please take note of the corresponding paragraph as a whole:

"*2. Trolling is not welcome on VI.* What is a troll? By posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, an internet troll sows discord by starting arguments or upsetting people with a deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. It has also been equated recently with online harassment. _*Trolling also includes repeated posting of essentially the same point many times in the same thread, particularly if it is done so in a heated manner or denigrates other participants in the thread.*_ Make your point, clarify if necessary, and read others' perspective. We will respond to trolling by deactivating the member's account, logging their IP and informing their ISP. Some trolling practices are described ahead in #3 through #10.

*2b. Use of avatars to promote firearms is considered trolling.* These will be removed and continued misuse of avatars can lead to account deactivation."

Source:
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/guideline-rules-for-vi-control-forum-updated.3/


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 19, 2016)

Aoiichi, no need to lecture me in PM, I already said, I'm not responding to your PM. PM become endless exchanges, I seriously don't have time for this. Hope that is clear for you.

You could discus firearms in avatars though. Right here! Or what ever you want.


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## G.R. Baumann (Nov 19, 2016)

Hannes_F said:


> *2b. Use of avatars to promote firearms is considered trolling.* These will be removed and continued misuse of avatars can lead to account deactivation."



Fwiw, I welcome this decision. 

On the flipside, I think that the display of weapons is not nessecarily a trolling issue, on a hunters forum for example, but this is a musicians forum, and the weapon displayed of military nature, produced and used daily to kill humans.

@Aolichi

Consider this, I would post a picture here of myself with a Katana (japanese long sword) and I would argue, hey I am fascinated by this weapon, tradition and culture.

I certainly could argue this way, as I practised Aikido and Iaido for nearly 2 decades. 

However, this would never come to my mind, for there *might* be people around that do not like the display of such weapon in public and feel uncomfortable with it, this I respect. 

Consider this, it is a matter of respect, and this is all I personally have to say on the matter.

Best
G


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## JonFairhurst (Nov 20, 2016)

Great decision. This is a composers' forum. If you want an avatar with a weapon, use your favorite axe (guitar). 

And yes, you should be thinking about Pink Floyd's The Wall lyrics right now.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 20, 2016)

Guy Bacos said:


> Aoiichi, no need to lecture me in PM, I already said, I'm not responding to your PM. PM become endless exchanges, I seriously don't have time for this. Hope that is clear for you.
> 
> You could discus firearms in avatars though. Right here! Or what ever you want.


I gave (what I assume is the same lecture on civility, hilarious!) one answer. Further spam will be deleted.


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## Niah2 (Nov 20, 2016)

Back in the day I had a hilarious bush avatar but some bush supporters thought it was offensive so I took it off, no big deal. I don't want to cause any ill will to forum members.

I don't think it's only a few people here that find avatars with machine guns offensive, I think there's a lot of folks and in the light of so many massacres committed with these assault rifles it is really bad taste and provocation to have an avatar like that. 

Well done mods.


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 20, 2016)

If we're going to ban things that people find offensive, why don't we ban something that has a long history of being truly offensive to millions of people. I'm talking about using "retard" as an insult. That one highly offends me because I have a family member who is mentally challenged. I'm not a PC fanatic, but that term is thoughtless and hurtful, and I ask that people who use the term as an insult be warned not to do so.


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## woodsdenis (Nov 20, 2016)

If you want a gun in your Avatar do it on a NRA forum, good decision.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 20, 2016)

Michael K. Bain said:


> If we're going to ban things that people find offensive, why don't we ban something that has a long history of being truly offensive to millions of people. I'm talking about using "retard" as an insult. That one highly offends me because I have a family member who is mentally challenged. I'm not a PC fanatic, but that term is thoughtless and hurtful, and I ask that people who use the term as an insult be warned not to do so.


I agree, but has that shown up in this thread?


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 20, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> I agree, but has that shown up in this thread?


I don't think so. It happened in the thread that this one spun off from. [Edited] I've long hated the use of that term, but that recent occurrence re-fired me up.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 20, 2016)

I hate it as well.


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 20, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> I hate it as well.


I think most people who use it don't realize how hurtful it is. That's why we who do hate it should let them know.


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 20, 2016)

Educate yourself on the subject. http://www.r-word.org/

It's not offensive to the person you're saying it to/about. It's offensive to mentally challenged people because you are using it to refer to something bad. In your example, you are equating retarded with ridiculous. Here's another example: many people use it in place of the word "stupid". I'll ask you straight out: if you were mentally handicapped, how would you feel if someone equated your condition with stupidity or ridiculousness?

It was careless and thoughtless toward people who are mentally handicapped. I'm asking you to think about it and stop doing it. Don't you owe the same respect to mentally handicapped people that you are demanding of people with pictures of guns on their avatars? I guarantee you that a mentally handicapped person's feelings would be hurt much more by the use of that term than you will be by looking at a picture of a gun.

There is a limit. The limit is when it comes to something trivial and small. I can assure you that the term "retarded" in a negative way is nothing trivial. Millions of many handicapped and non-handicapped people object to it.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 20, 2016)

Careful, Michael. Chim is about to accuse you of handicapped-ism and needle you for wanting a safe space.


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 20, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> Careful, Michael. Chim is about to accuse you of handicapped-ism and needle you for wanting a safe space.


Nah, he knows there's a difference between extreme "safe spaces" and the common decency of avoiding using words that are truly offensive to innocent people.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 20, 2016)

No he doesn't. No protected classes, dude.


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 21, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> No he doesn't. No protected classes, dude.


To be clear, I'm not suggesting that the government ban the R word. I am asking that this privately owned forum do so.


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 21, 2016)

I want to make an apology. I am posting it publicly because the offense was public, and I should be bold enough to admit my wrongdoing. I apologize to a certain user for calling him out on his use of a certain term. I should have sent him a private message instead. I tend to get really riled up over certain things on the internet and I should be better.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 21, 2016)

Michael K. Bain said:


> I want to make an apology. I am posting it publicly because the offense was public, and I should be bold enough to admit my wrongdoing. I apologize to a certain user for calling him out on his use of a certain term. I should have sent him a private message instead. I tend to get really riled up over certain things on the internet and I should be better.



That is pretty big of you Michael! You are right about the awkwardness of internet, this would of been so easy to get past us face to face accompanied by a few beers. I want you to know I am sensitive to you point, and will surely be more conscious of it in the future and I apologize if I unintentionally offended .

Now another round of beer please!


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## Michael K. Bain (Nov 21, 2016)

Guy Bacos said:


> That is pretty big of you Michael! You are right about the awkwardness of internet, this would of been so easy to get past us face to face accompanied by a few beers. I want you to know I am sensitive to you point, and will surely be more conscious of it in the future and I apologize if I unintentionally offended anyone by using that word.
> 
> Now another round of beer please!


Thanks, but I'll take a round of Egg Nog!


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## chimuelo (Nov 21, 2016)

NYC Composer said:


> No he doesn't. No protected classes, dude.



Don't be putting words in my mouth.
And I agree that the traumatized little darlings should have cry ins, safe Spaces with pillows and videos of frollicking puppies.

Once they leave make believe land at some Liberal University and enter the real world they'll snap out of it.

Especially when Daddy finds out he's stuck with the 200,000 debt for a Gender Awareness or Community Organizing degree.


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## NYC Composer (Nov 21, 2016)

Yeah, but you hit every fat pitch out of the park anyway. No breaks for those handicapped puppy lovers!


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## chimuelo (Nov 21, 2016)

They should beaten and whipped, that way they have a real reason for a cry in....


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## NYC Composer (Nov 21, 2016)

*Beat the Handicapped! End the Tyranny of Disability!
*
You could have t-shirts made.


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