# Alan Greenspan dismisses Republican plan to extend tax cuts



## JohnG (Aug 1, 2010)

from today's Meet the Press. Alan Greenspan is a retired chairman of the Federal Reserve:

MR. GREENSPAN: Look, I'm very much in favor of tax cuts, but not with borrowed money. And the problem that we've gotten into in recent years is spending programs with borrowed money, tax cuts with borrowed money, and at the end of the day, that proves disastrous. And my view is I don't think we can play subtle policy here on it.

MR. GREGORY (host): You don't agree with Republican leaders who say tax cuts pay for themselves?

MR. GREENSPAN: They do not.

full transcript: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38487969/ns ... ranscripts


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## Patrick de Caumette (Aug 1, 2010)

case of bad conscience that eventually leads to honesty...


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## chimuelo (Aug 1, 2010)

Another staged media event during an election cycle is all this is.

Why doesn't this " journalist " ask the questions that matter to most Americans.
We know TARP was necessary and the stimulus was equally important, but now the Banks are still borrowing money from the Fed interest free, yet small businesses cannot get a loan which means they dont create jobs and cause growth...?
Why can't these businesses get interest free loans from the Fed..? 

Ask Greenspan, who resided over these various periods, where my 57% equity in my house went...?
Since Gregory has a script to follow and can't think for himself, I will answer that.
Chinas' property Bubble is where. Just look at the 200% increase in value. 
Their growth rate was parallel to ours until they hit 2008. 2008 to 2009 the prices doubled, then from 2009 to 2010 the prices doubled again. Talk about pressing your bets.

Some folks call this a consipracy theory. Its all public knowledge as long as you follow the global markets. These guys just use the same stock brokers, that's all.

What a prideless fool pretending to be a journalist. He's a stenographer.
Maybe his bosses will tell him to ask tougher questions in November, but even then it wont' be anyone his bosses extract contributions from.


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## George Caplan (Aug 2, 2010)

alan grrenspan should keep his fucking mouth shut.


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## JohnG (Aug 2, 2010)

great post, chimuelo

I hope you can keep your son home. War has (nearly) always been a fraud.


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## chimuelo (Aug 3, 2010)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... _Dm0DKydIg

Watch the CSPAN Video of the State Of The US Economy where several different viewpoints were given as advice to the Senate Budget Committee.
The Republicans are still sticking to their guns about Tax cuts and pose some valid points, but Joel Naroff who was grilled by the Committee is a very impressive chap.
He cites Paul Krugman and various other fiscal disciplines, then tells the Republicans that the tax cuts are unwise until later on during the recovery.
These are the type of professionals I enjoy learning from. Obviously picking the best ideas from both sides of the fence which leads to positive results to the consumers and markets. A very Demand orientated Economist with the rare ability to adjust his assessments by the point at which the business cycle is instead of following some strict policy.
Too bad the children in Washington all think they are right, and everyone else is wrong. Thats why we end up on the short end end of the stick.

I really enjoyed learning ideas from the witnesses who seem much more tolerant than the seperatist politicians we suffer with.
I actually voted for Obama because of his promised CSPAN, line by line, no pork and expose the scoundrels pledge.
Well it won't be the first time I voted for a liar...... =o 

Fast forward to the Joel Naroff comments. They are most refreshing.
The politicians are terrible actors, and as usual very boring as they try and pretend they care for the citizenry. Predictably, partisan politics an an infectious level.

Bernie Sanders was the best as usual as he gets really pissed off and red faced, but since he isn't a leftie/rightie/blacky/whitey kind of guy, his views are scathingly accurate.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 3, 2010)

I think he's a pompous and egotistic guy who is playing the elder statesman role in harmful ways.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 3, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Tue Aug 03 said:


> I think he's a pompous and egotistic guy who is playing the elder statesman role in harmful ways.



I dunno. He worked very well with President Clinton and together, amazingly along with a Republican dominated congress, led the era of the most competent stewardship of the economy I have seen in my lifetime.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 3, 2010)

Sadly, as a happy de-regulator, he (self-describedly) missed that whole housing bubble thingie. Darn. I mean, things were going so well...


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## rJames (Aug 3, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Tue Aug 03 said:


> NYC Composer @ Tue Aug 03 said:
> 
> 
> > I think he's a pompous and egotistic guy who is playing the elder statesman role in harmful ways.
> ...



Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile.


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## José Herring (Aug 3, 2010)

Didn't he study Oboe at the Juilliard School? That alone is enough to question his economic sensibilities. 

@Jay, there was no magic to Clinton having great economic success. He realized that the biggest drain on our economy was the military, so he refused to engage in wars and he slashed and burned the military down to it's core--viola, balanced budget, lower taxes, more money in people's pocket to spend, more jobs. ect.... The shit is so easy that I can't even believe they offer degrees in economics.

I'm one of the rare birds that don't agree with any left or right interpretation of economics. It's a cut and dry subject and then people start putting in their particular ideology and then they confuse the subject beyond recognition. Keynes is just as much of a crackpot as Milton Freeman so the whole left right thingy is just an attempt for people to use economy to forward their own political agenda.

@Nick for all your criticism of conservative policies you're starting to sound just like Reagan, He was the first economic charlatan to propose the idea of deficit spending. Remember his quote " a little deficit spurs the economy". What a hoax. Lead us down the path of borrowing now we're at a point that 41 cents of every tax dollar is used to pay back loans. I'd rather that 41 cents be used to feed a hungry kid or give him health care rather than heading over to China and Japan.

Either way you look at it we're totally screwed as long as these people who are in charge keep listening to "expert" economist. Those on the right are saying cut taxes and yet the only way the government can make any real money is to tax. Those on the right say "deficit spending" yet if we borrow any more money the payback on the loans suck up all the money they want to use for their lofty social programs.

What's really terrible is that our economy is totally run on a deficit. Every dollar you carry was borrowed from the federal reserve and the government borrows the money from the fed to coin our currency. So right now even if we paid back all the foreign banks, we'd still borrow 575 billion dollars a year owed to the New York Fed, which is a public private company under the control of the Rocherfeller foundation. So you add it up. 450 billion for the military, 350 billion for medicare/medicade, another 350 billion owed to the social security fund and another 500 billion for currency and you've got record deficits of 1.5 trillion dollars and a debt of 14 trillion since Clinton left office.

Looking at those numbers I'd say there should be a shoot to kill order on anybody who advocates either more deficit spending or cutting taxes.

At Chim, yeah I remember that line by line bs by Obama. I'm still waiting for it, but it ain't coming. But in all reality it's not his fault. As long as we have a bunch of spenders in congress there's gonna be pork. If we want balanced budgets we have to pressure congress. They're the ones who are suppose to be watching the bottom line.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 3, 2010)

When will Jesus bring the pork chops?

© George Carlin


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## José Herring (Aug 3, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Tue Aug 03 said:


> When will Jesus bring the pork chops?
> 
> © George Carlin



Everybody forgets that Jesus was a Jew. He was totally against pork. :D


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## chimuelo (Aug 3, 2010)

Greenspan really didn't have anything to do with the housing crisis, and either did Chris Dodd or Barney Frank.
I am not a Bush blamer, but in this case he knew everything about it and I can explain why.
Remember when the phones were ringing off of the hook everyday from someone wanting to refinance your house......?
That was Roland Arnall's company called Ameriquest. The reason I am familiar is because we refinanced and I noticed that the 3rd party had taken 75,000 dollars out, when the maximum arbitration fees are 40,000. This is a law set by the Nevada Mortagage Lending Division in Carson City.
I decided to play stupid and kept the money we refiied and use it to hire a lawyer.
Within 6 months Ameriquest was allowed the fastest bancrupcy in history. So we had the subsidiary finance company left to sue.
But here's the clincher. His criminality was in question and Bush made him Ambassador to the Netherlands where the ever understanding Queen Beatrice was happy to oblidge. Now he had diplomatic immunity free from prosecution. Sadly he died right after his arrival, so instead of the regular process and vetting his son was allowed the position.
As I have said before its not a conspirarcy, they just use the same broker.....
We ended up sitting pretty though.
But just try and use your memory here. The phones for refinances abruptly stopped after the Bancrupcy letter came. However the subsidiaries still kept sending millions of letters for weeks as the small company hired to solicit by mail was under paid contract.
This is not a joke. 
Funny thing is the power that Bush cronies had was astounding. The last time I checked the net all of the links of the news cannot be stopped from being posted, but they do have the juice to go into the internet and cleanse/delete anything they deem national security. So now the story is still there but the facts have been manipulated.
Again, no conpiracy theory, they just all share the same ISP.
Greenspan just took orders from up above like everyone else in our politically correct and holsom Government does.
The link below has a very patriotic picture of one the top 10 Republican Party Donors.
Its sad that everyones dead now. Again no conspiracy, they all use the same Mortuary and Medical Examiners.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... U3jz2ZiMTQ
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... kuP8NPM4RQ


Usually the more truthful versions can be found on the pages after the first 60 on Google. That's another nice trick.
The Japanese flooded the air waves with phony messages to hide their real intent prior to the strike on Pearl Harbor.
Now we flood Google.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 3, 2010)

> Any segment of the population that believes they have a lock on wisdom, proves by maintaining that that in fact they do not.



Wisdom is much more complicated. What I said is that conservatives are wrong about every last single issue.

Being centrist only means you're smart enough to know better but you're a wimp.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 3, 2010)

Greenspan on getting it wrong...'oops, flaw in my model', first from PBS::

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec08/crisishearing_10-23.html (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business ... 10-23.html)

also from the Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB122476545437862295.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PU ... 62295.html)

A few quotes for your enjoyment:

"Even though some down payments are borrowed, it would take a large, and historically most unusual, fall in home prices to wipe out a significant part of home equity. Many of those who purchased their residence more than a year ago have equity buffers in their homes adequate to withstand any price decline other than a very deep one." -- October 2004

"The use of a growing array of derivatives and the related application of more-sophisticated approaches to measuring and managing risk are key factors underpinning the greater resilience of our largest financial institutions .... Derivatives have permitted the unbundling of financial risks." -- May 2005

and , ta-da....my favorite!

"Improvements in lending practices driven by information technology have enabled lenders to reach out to households with previously unrecognized borrowing capacities." -- October 2004


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## madbulk (Aug 3, 2010)

The list of folks who didn't miss the housing bubble is pretty damned short. A little silly even as hyperbole -- Guy steered the United States Economy for 20 years. Now he should shut up? A little humility, folks.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 3, 2010)

madbulk @ Wed Aug 04 said:


> The list of folks who didn't miss the housing bubble is pretty damned short. A little silly even as hyperbole -- Guy steered the United States Economy for 20 years. Now he should shut up? A little humility, folks.



Ummmm...did you READ any of that? Which part of what HE said was hyperbole?
Im sorry, he basked in glory, and made some really bonehead mistakes (and admitted to them). Nowadays, he's back to defending his legacy. Check it out.

The list of Fed chairmen is pretty short , actually. I'm SUPPOSED to miss the housing bubble (I didn't). The Fed chairman, who essentially enabled and encouraged it for political reasons as well as his own policies, really shouldn't. He did.

As to humility, I'll start showing some when A.G does.*

(*or possibly not :wink: )


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## Ashermusic (Aug 3, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Aug 03 said:


> Jay, are you not aware that Greenspan himself admitted that he blew it?
> 
> This is why you can't be centrist. The neutral zone is as wrong as the conservative one.



There is no politician who has served in an office for many years that has not made major mistakes. None. Nada. Zero.

Not Greenspan. Not FDR. Not Churchill. The number of those on the left who made horrendous mistakes is equally as impressive as those on the right. And only those blinded by their own prejudices do not see it.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 4, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Wed Aug 04 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Aug 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Jay, are you not aware that Greenspan himself admitted that he blew it?
> ...



I agree with that, Jay. (LBJ's Southeast Asia policy comes to mind).

I disagree that A.G's voice is valuable at this juncture. At the very least, his job was to keep us from a precipice such as the one we teetered on(and in some ways are still teetering). In my view, his present interests are legacy protection and self aggrandizement.


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## George Caplan (Aug 4, 2010)

chimuelo @ Tue Aug 03 said:


> Greenspan really didn't have anything to do with the housing crisis,
> Greenspan just took orders from up above like everyone else in our politically correct and holsom Government does.



i like your knowledge quite a bit on this forum but i just cant agree on that one. working for GS in the uk we watched the uk equivalent of greenspan allow and even endeavor to persuade lenders to fund false growth thru debt. alarmingly there seems to be a resurgence in property values once again here in the uk. the problem is they cant raise the interest rates to stem it when they should have done 4 to 5 years ago instead of keeping them artificially low to yup, you guessed it, get growth thru borrowing.
incidentally there is a long running tv news show here called newsnight and virginia city was featured in an economic report last evening. not getting over to the states as much as i would like these days didnt realize things were getting quite so tough in those parts.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 4, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Wed Aug 04 said:


> Ashermusic @ Wed Aug 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Aug 03 said:
> ...



Well I gave up trying to judge people's motives a long time ago. First of all, I cannot look into his heart and mind and see what is there. Further, if someone is doing something good I don't really care about his motives (and if something bad, the same applies.)

Having a guy who is considered a fiscal conservative come on national TV and explain why renewing the Bush tax cuts is not the right thing to do is a very good thing in my mind so whatever his motives, I am glad to have him doing so as often as he cares to do it.

We probably are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Larry.


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## chimuelo (Aug 4, 2010)

Here's what went down while Greenspan held the purse strings.
He refused to adjust interest rates after Congressional pressure since the Fed is a seperate branch of Government that abides by its own laws, we can't even audit the Fed. 
So as usual Congress passed its own laws which we never get to see as they are buried in 2400 page blatherings. The laws allowed for IndyMac and the Deutsche Bank to have access to personal records where they could target homes where large majorities of equity were paid.

I had to always use my 3 acre lot as collateral to get a home equity loan when pouring a new pool deck or driveway. These financial institutions sought me out, and solicited me for a re financing.

This was something that Greenspan had no control over. I am sure you heard the Freddie Mac / Fannie Mae stories, but you should really research the Deutsche Bank and IndyMac.
Who ever heard of foriegn banks allowed access to the citizens in the USA's personal mortgage records....?
This isn't one persons decision, but International Banking Institutions and the worlds wealthiest buying Congressional favors.

Even Joel Naroff has echoed the same decisions Greenspan concluded. An opinion from anyone who has experience in this field is welcomed by me. 
This whole culture of blaming someone else after the fact is ludicrous.
This is a staged media event anyways.
If you really want to hear and see why things went South watch CSPAN since these folks are under oathe, and actually only at that point are they held accountable.
Up until a Commitee of Congress is conveined, lying is an acceptable talent.

I prefer policy over party, and if Greenspan wants to speak its his right, although he arrived at the decision I agree with, he should not be publicly stating his viewpoints. Bernacki is the new Fall guy for the Worlds wealthy banks and power brokers. If they disagree in public on more than a few occassions this type of Specualtion has effects on the exchange markets. and is dangerous. So AG should fade away like MacArthur.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 4, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Wed Aug 04 said:


> NYC Composer @ Wed Aug 04 said:
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> 
> > Ashermusic @ Wed Aug 04 said:
> ...



Agreeing to disagree is fine, Jay. What you cannot logically deny, however, is how badly he missed the signs of a financial apocalypse, thereby leading us to the brink of disaster. Not if you read some of the material I presented, anyway.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 4, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Wed Aug 04 said:


> Ashermusic @ Wed Aug 04 said:
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> 
> > NYC Composer @ Wed Aug 04 said:
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I do not deny it, but he certainly had a lot of company


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## NYC Composer (Aug 4, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Wed Aug 04 said:


> NYC Composer @ Wed Aug 04 said:
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> 
> > Ashermusic @ Wed Aug 04 said:
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Agreed, but when you're The Man, you take the heat when things go wonky.


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## madbulk (Aug 4, 2010)

Agreed. But how much of the heat to himself? 

And even if a lot, should he go away, or not be interviewed? And if interviewed won't he spend the ENTIRETY of it shamelessly grasping for words and positioning to soothe his enormous guilt while simultaneously salvaging some undeserved dignity?

I get it. I shouldn't have dismissed it. But I personally don't see it.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 4, 2010)

madbulk @ Wed Aug 04 said:


> Agreed. But how much of the heat to himself?
> 
> And even if a lot, should he go away, or not be interviewed? And if interviewed won't he spend the ENTIRETY of it shamelessly grasping for words and positioning to soothe his enormous guilt while simultaneously salvaging some undeserved dignity?
> 
> I get it. I shouldn't have dismissed it. But I personally don't see it.



Obviously opinions will vary on this subject. I think I aptly demonstrated my P.O.V. with the quotes I posted, however I should have put my original statement in a more personal context, such as:

"Personally, I don't care to listen to Mr. Greenspan expound on the economy given how dreadfully he dropped the ball at the end of his tenure at the Fed."

Works better, yes?


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## madbulk (Aug 4, 2010)

Yes.
Gawd, but we're evolved around here. Ain't we?


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## NYC Composer (Aug 4, 2010)

Well-I am. :wink:


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## madbulk (Aug 4, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Wed Aug 04 said:


> As to humility, I'll start showing some when A.G does.*


Eh... better evolved than humble.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 4, 2010)

Jay...well no duh: everyone makes mistakes.

But I don't think you understand that Greenspan is a rigid Ayn Rand relativist ideologue! He is one of the biggest villains in this whole crash!


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