# Steinberg?



## MA-Simon (Sep 18, 2013)

I am still on Cubase Studio 5. I think the update price was between 199€-299€ before?

New update price:


> Cubase Studio 4/5: EUR 399*



I remember purchasing it for arround 399€ back then, C7 is 599€ new, so I basically need to pay double?

http://www.steinberg.net/en/newsandevents/news/newsdetail/archive/2013/09/17/article/cubase-upgrade-update-price-adjustments-2518.html (http://www.steinberg.net/en/newsandeven ... -2518.html)

I probably wont update, _ever._


----------



## germancomponist (Sep 18, 2013)

*Re: WTF Steinberg?*



MA-Simon @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> I am still on Cubase Studio 5. I think the update price was between 199€-299€ before?
> 
> New update price:
> 
> ...



From 15.Oktober on....

Now your price is 349.- € incl. german VAT

http://www.steinberg.net/en/shop/buy_product/product/cubase-7.html


----------



## jules (Sep 18, 2013)

*Re: WTF Steinberg?*

Edit.


----------



## Daryl (Sep 18, 2013)

*Re: WTF Steinberg?*

Not that I would ever defend some of Steinberg's decisions, it doesn't seem that high to me. You are getting the new features from C6 and the new features from C7, so I don't really see what you're complaining about.

D


----------



## germancomponist (Sep 18, 2013)

*Re: WTF Steinberg?*



Daryl @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> Not that I would ever defend some of Steinberg's decisions, it doesn't seem that high to me. You are getting the new features from C6 and the new features from C7, so I don't really see what you're complaining about.
> 
> D



+1


----------



## RasmusFors (Sep 18, 2013)

*Re: WTF Steinberg?*

Don't forget the 6.5 update. That "expansion" added a few quite usefull synths and fxs.


----------



## JE Martinsen (Sep 18, 2013)

*Re: WTF Steinberg?*



jules @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=181&t=47558



"What do you think about the new cubase update pricing scheme ?

Not expensive enough, but can the cubase 8 box be gilded in the fine gold?" :lol: 

I've been using Cubase since the Pro-24/Atari days and no way am I ever going to bail out, no matter what Steinberg does with their pricing. And I think they know there are a lot of us Cubase-slaves out there.. :mrgreen:


----------



## MA-Simon (Sep 18, 2013)

*Re: WTF Steinberg?*

I guess it is not that much if one can make money with it. 

Still slightly miffed though. I don't need any of these new fx things (I think).
The only thing I might want is that scaleable cc editing-feature I have seen in some youtube video.


----------



## jules (Sep 18, 2013)

*Re: WTF Steinberg?*

Yeah, i just realised i misread the original steinberg annoucement by considering the 6.5 to 7 was 50e when in fact it's 6 to 6.5. 
I'm finally ok with this pricing, even it's a 33% augmentation... (hope the gaz company is not looking...)


----------



## Rctec (Sep 18, 2013)

I can't believe how cheap some of you people are! How many man-hours do you think the programmers at Steinberg have invested in trying to make a professional product for you?
Yes, there are constant niggles and improvements we'd all like. But if people like, for example, Harry Gregson-Williams and I can fulfill the demands of a big score time and time again, if we are given the same tools for the same price as you, there has to bea bit more respect for the work


----------



## Rctec (Sep 18, 2013)

....oops! Wrong button! Hit "Send" before finishing ranting! 
...there has to be a bit more respect for the people at Steinberg than starting a thread with "WTF"...
How many years have you used C5? ...I can't even remember that version...
End of rant!
-H-


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Sep 18, 2013)

Rctec @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> I can't believe how cheap some of you people are! How many man-hours do you think the programmers at Steinberg have invested in trying to make a professional product for you?
> Yes, there are constant niggles and improvements we'd all like. But if people like, for example, Harry Gregson-Williams and I can fulfill the demands of a big score time and time again, if we are given the same tools for the same price as you, there has to bea bit more respect for the work



Sing this melody from "Hair" with me, Hans: 

"This is the dawning of the Age of Entitlement, Age of Entitlement, Entitlement, Entitlement."


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer (Sep 18, 2013)

Rctec @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> I can't believe how cheap some of you people are! How many man-hours do you think the programmers at Steinberg have invested in trying to make a professional product for you?
> Yes, there are constant niggles and improvements we'd all like. But if people like, for example, Harry Gregson-Williams and I can fulfill the demands of a big score time and time again, if we are given the same tools for the same price as you, there has to bea bit more respect for the work



I agree. Considering the incredible things we can do, it's amazing how affordable it is.
Cubase, or any DAW, is surely the best value for money software product we use these days. It's the reasonable pricing that has driven digital music production to thrive.


----------



## jules (Sep 18, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> Sing this melody from "Hair" with me, Hans:
> 
> "This is the dawning of the Age of Entitlement, Age of Entitlement, Entitlement, Entitlement."



I can sing this melody with you, if you want, even if my first name is not hans.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Sep 18, 2013)

Sure, the more the merrier.


----------



## MA-Simon (Sep 18, 2013)

Well... what can I say. I probably should have expected that response, posting here.



> Harry Gregson-Williams and I can fulfill the demands of a big score time and time again, if we are given the same tools for the same price as you, there has to bea bit more respect for the work


But I am neither Gregson-Williams nor you, but would still like to play arround with nice things.

I don't make any money with music, I am a designer, still a student, and purchase everything by myself. That includes Cubase, Kontakt, sample libraries by Spitfire, OT etc. Slowly building up to... _I don't know_.
I guess I love loading up a patch in my free time and smash along. I grew up playing the piano and playing these sounds provides a little bit of extra fun in my frustrating day.
The number of tools I need to purchase for my job, right at the start is just a way overwhelming: Adobe Suites, Cinema 4D, 3d plugins etc. This stuff is not cheap.

I guess I was just getting frustrated at how much I would have to spend, before I can even start to do _anything_ of that stuff we got told at my university, we would have to own, to be anywhere near competetive.



> "This is the dawning of the Age of Entitlement, Age of Entitlement, Entitlement, Entitlement."


Well, what do you expect? This is what I grew up with. I am surrounded by media-media-media. Everyone but myself has a smartphone, a tablet ore superpowers (Well If you were anywhere near my age, you would have been made to play a lot of games). It's not like todays society made these images, stories and thoughts _optional_. 
The problem is: with the Internet, _I also get to see how everyone else does their thing, probably 1000times better then myself._ It is quite easy to start ranting when everyone else you know, does not pay for anything I _want_ to pay for at all. Then yes, I am made to feel a little bit left behind.

 You already had your fun times, because If the media is to be belived, I don't know how much time_ I _have left with all that end-of-the-world-fukushima-ww3-globalwarming talk I get brainwashed with everyday... so I get impatient.


----------



## RiffWraith (Sep 18, 2013)

The thing I want to know is why the thread title was changed? I thought we were supposed to be anti-censorship around here?


----------



## 5Lives (Sep 18, 2013)

Sort of reminds us just what a great value Logic is. Best bang for the buck.

Steinberg seems more inline with Avid now.


----------



## Chriss Ons (Sep 18, 2013)

Steinberg obvioulsy need to put a price on an upgrade path and perhaps revise it now and then -which I'm sure is something they do after careful consideration - but it's always going to rub a number of people the wrong way when the curve becomes a little more steep. And isn't the whole point with the entry- and mid- level versions of Cubase that Steinberg also wants to cater to the needs of those who don't have the budget for the full version? I fail to see why this price revision fills people with outrage. It's focusing on the negative rather than the positive.

I can only speak for myself here but the cost of upgrading my main DAW to a newer version represents just a *fraction* of the total amount I spend on sampling libraries, plugins, musical instruments, or building a new rig every few years - however, I would find it rather hard to believe I'm in the minority.


----------



## kitekrazy (Sep 18, 2013)

IF you don't need the notation function, look at Reaper. Studio One is nice but you would have to wait for a deal.

What I find odd is that upgrade price of Sony Vegas is less than Soundforge which is still 32 bit.

Cakewalk is very generous with upgrade pricing.

For me to upgrade the other license of Live 8 to Live 9 Suite is $399. Yuck!

Reaper on the other hand is nice DAW if you don't want to bother with other software's built in features.


----------



## jules (Sep 18, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> Sure, the more the merrier.


Great. I'm a baryton.


----------



## rgames (Sep 18, 2013)

Steinberg can charge whatever they want. If there are enough people who think the price is too high, then their revenues will suffer. At that point they will either lower the price or go out of business.

Be thankful for the free market: it's the only system where you *truly* have a vote.

You vote with your dollars.

But so do an entire planet's worth of other people, so sometimes you're outvoted. Such is the nature of a truly democratic process.

By the way - if you're a student, you're eligible for the academic pricing, aren't you?

rgames

PS, the price people pay for software in the media world is *much* less than what other professions pay. Scientists and engineers, for example, regularly pay $20,000 PER YEAR for some software packages.


----------



## dgburns (Sep 18, 2013)

Rctec @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> I can't believe how cheap some of you people are! How many man-hours do you think the programmers at Steinberg have invested in trying to make a professional product for you?
> Yes, there are constant niggles and improvements we'd all like. But if people like, for example, Harry Gregson-Williams and I can fulfill the demands of a big score time and time again, if we are given the same tools for the same price as you, there has to bea bit more respect for the work



Steinberg is one of the last remaining group who seem to be really backing the pro community.I am upset to have backed the Emagic guys,since they got bought by Apple.I don't think that Emagic purchase was a good thing for us Logic users(others may disagree).
in hindsight,those who backed Cubase are in a better position today.cough up the dough boys,you have a company that seems to care about your music making.

meanwhile,I can migrate up to ML and look forward to reading the infinitely insightful bios on the "virtual drummers" in Logic X.talk about pro(not).and not for that much less an upgrade price either,I might add.
now if you were complaining about that new Avid mixer for 40 k,I might understand...a little...
-david


----------



## playz123 (Sep 18, 2013)

Not meant as a criticism of anyone here..just an interesting article related to some of the comments:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but- ... 30620.html


----------



## ptsmith (Sep 18, 2013)

In the US, you can buy the full version on ebay for less than $400, so 399€ ($540) for an upgrade does seem high.

How much does the full version cost in Europe?


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Sep 18, 2013)

MA-Simon @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> > "This is the dawning of the Age of Entitlement, Age of Entitlement, Entitlement, Entitlement."
> 
> 
> Well, what do you expect? This is what I grew up with. I am surrounded by media-media-media. Everyone but myself has a smartphone, a tablet ore superpowers (Well If you were anywhere near my age, you would have been made to play a lot of games). It's not like todays society made these images, stories and thoughts _optional_.
> ...



Do you not also see the images of people starving and living in horrible poverty? Do you not realize that you probably live better than 90% of the people on the planet?


----------



## midi_controller (Sep 18, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> Do you not also see the images of people starving and living in horrible poverty? Do you not realize that you probably live better than 90% of the people on the planet?



And what are you doing about that Jay? Have you devoted your life to feeding those starving people, working to build them better homes and neighborhoods? No? Perhaps you grew up in one of those countries, suffered first hand the starvation and horrible conditions? No? Then why would you even bring that up? It has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

This is incredible to me. One person has a problem with a price hike and suddenly he is an entitled, delusional yuppie. Have you all forgotten what it was like to struggle? Wasn't there a time when you had to budget down to every penny? Don't you realize that people need to vent sometimes? Haven't you ever complained to your friends about the price of, for example, gas?

I'm seeing a very distinct lack of empathy here. If some of you want to call my generation entitled, I'll call yours apathetic, and even worse, smug.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Sep 18, 2013)

midi_controller @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Wed Sep 18 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you not also see the images of people starving and living in horrible poverty? Do you not realize that you probably live better than 90% of the people on the planet?
> ...



First of all, you have no idea what I do and do not do, have done and have not done.

Secondly, he admits that he feels entitled to things and blames it on the internet showing him that others have them.

Finally I am friends with and therefore constantly am exposed to people who are _far_ wealthier than me; who live in _far_ nicer homes than me; who drive _far_ nicer cars than me: and no, you will not hear me EVER complain about that. Never. What you WILL hear me say is that I reconize how amazingly blessed and fortunate I am. Because I understand that the only reason I live the way i do is an accident of birth; to whom I was born and where I was born.

And my generation, with all its flaws, was far from apathetic. My generation marched for racial equality and passed the Civil Rights Act, started the Peace Corps, got us out of Vietnam by protesting, etc. 

You did get one thing right: I feel no empathy for those who feel entitled to have all products be priced so they can afford them because they think they should be able to have them. None,. Nada. Zip. If that makes me smug in your view, fine. I think it makes me a person who is focused on what I can have and grateful for it, not feeling bad about what I cannot.


----------



## midi_controller (Sep 18, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> First of all, you have no idea what I do and do not do, have done and have not done.
> 
> Secondly, he admits that he feels entitled to things and blames it on the internet showing him that others have them.
> 
> ...



I can make an educated guess about your line of work based on the fact that you post here, so it's not too hard to think that maybe you didn't dedicate your life's work to the suffering of children in third world countries. Playing the statistics, I can also make an educated guess that you were not born and raised in such a country, based on the fact that you live in LA, your chosen profession and the fact that you are articulate enough that I would think that English would be your primary language (or at least, grew up in a country where education in English was available). If I was wrong, by all means, I apologize, but I doubt I am. Do you know how often I hear the "People are suffering in 3rd world countries!" straw man argument? Do you realize how stupid it is? 

Unless you want to start a relief effort or have some solution to these countries problems you would like to discuss, why would you bring it up? To tell someone to be grateful? Now _you_ are presuming to know about someone else's position, based on the information available to you, which was the exact thing that you are angry at me for doing. Maybe Cubase is the only piece of software MA-Simon owns, and he runs it on an old busted laptop that he was given 7 years ago as a gift. He could have lived off of Ramen for months just to be able to afford it with his pitiful minimum wage job at McDonalds while going to school full time on a scholarship, and posting here using the school's wifi. Is this likely? No, and you made an educated guess that it wasn't, just like I did.

So you have never experienced envy? Really? You've also never felt that a price was too high on a product? Never complained to, or with for that matter, your friends? You sure as hell _noticed_ that your friends drive nicer cars and have nicer houses. And is there anything wrong with seeing something and going "I'd like to have that!"? Perhaps you saved to buy that nice car that you saw your friend driving, maybe even for a year or two, and perhaps when you went to buy it, it suddenly was much more expensive. Wouldn't you want to complain to someone? Maybe you didn't have any friends who really understood and liked cars, so you turned to a car forum you post on now and then for validation of your frustration (as humans tend to do). See where this is going?

Overall, I'm not really talking about MA-Simon or his slightly misplaced rage (I think part of what he was talking about was seeing other people pirating software, while he was struggling to buy it). It's just this general thing that has been floating around lately and I'm getting sick of it.

My statement about your generation being apathetic applies only to the people in your generation that want to think my generation has an entitlement complex. Those that want to broadly label a massive portion of my generation without stopping to think about how things have changed. It's a different world we live in, some just don't want to see it, and I'm tired of seeing it go unchecked.


----------



## NYC Composer (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm using a 2011 rev of Cubase 6. I haven't updated because I haven't needed anything, but in general the low price of DAW software amazes me. With full automation, Quicktime and virtual instruments and effects built in, I mean??? 

Back in the bad old tape days, those features didn't exist, and the closest you could get was an SSL and a computer system worth hundreds of thousands. My DAW is the most cost effective tool I own, and dirt cheap. Hell, I'd have paid that much to never have to lock up a 24 track tape machine and a 3/4 videotape deck via SMPTE. Ever. Again.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Sep 18, 2013)

There is nothing wrong with wanting something. There is a lot wrong with then expecting a company to price it in accordance with your finances and starting a thread. With "wtf" about it, as Hans correctly stated.


And what I am saying about this generation and its sense of entitlement is what my 30 year old daughter and 26 year old niece also say.

I'm done.


----------



## 667 (Sep 18, 2013)

playz123 @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> Not meant as a criticism of anyone here..just an interesting article related to some of the comments:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but- ... 30620.html


http://flavorwire.com/415565/actually-a ... e-unhappy/


----------



## midi_controller (Sep 19, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> There is nothing wrong with wanting something. There is a lot wrong with then expecting a company to price it in accordance with your finances and starting a thread. With "wtf" about it, as Hans correctly stated.
> 
> 
> And what I am saying about this generation and its sense of entitlement is what my 30 year old daughter and 26 year old niece also say.
> ...



People get frustrated about things, then they rant about it. It happens to everyone. I think when it comes to compositional tools, we are more likely to come here to rant about it because when we try it with family and friends, they just get that confused look on their faces and ask "What's a sequencer?". It's just easier to do it here, where at least people can understand us. This was just a young guy who wanted to rant about a price hike, I just don't see a problem with that. Again I'll ask, have you all forgotten what it was like to struggle, and more, to be young? Wouldn't you want to complain a bit if Cubase suddenly shot up out of your price range?

I just think it's a bit funny when people sit there and act like they would _never_ do something like this, but you all have, at some point. Maybe not in regards to music tools, but about something.

Jay, that is the second time that I've seen you say your daughter and niece agree with you as if that somehow makes you right. Just because people agree with you doesn't mean you, or they, are correct. I could sit here all day and tell you the problems my generation faces, and I'll be more than happy to if I think it would allow you a bit more compassion towards us, but not in this thread.


----------



## Rctec (Sep 19, 2013)

...my initial response reads as nonsense now, since the title of the thread has been changed to exclude the "WTF". 
Look, I believe all these companies have student discounts, entry programs that cost considerably less, etc., precisely to make it possible for people like you to make music.
You probably never need the full pro version, from what you are describing your musical goals to be. The internet stuff is just synth porn...very addictive, very unrealistic. It won't help you write a better tune, make you more successful, make your music sound better, get you laid, make you rich.
I do agree with EastWest Lurker that it felt like petulant entitlement, hence my rant. 
Hey, I sort of know what it's like, slumming it with Cubase. You'd think by now I'd be upgrading to Nuendo  WTF!


----------



## 667 (Sep 19, 2013)

Rctec @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> Hey, I sort of know what it's like, slumming it with Cubase. You'd think by now I'd be upgrading to Nuendo  WTF!


LOL!

Personally I am fed up with Cubase UI. Upgrade to 7 was disappointing $150 for me. I need docking windows or tabs, or SOMETHING better so that I can see my work without having 100 windows floating / resizing all over the place. IIRC it's been talked about for a while, maybe with C8 we'll finally get it. There has got to be a better way! 

I think I'm going to test Ableton Live demo version this weekend to see if it's any better. Barring that maybe write my own Reaper UI (it's fairly open). http://www.cockos.com/reaper/sdk/walter/walter.php Can't be best use of my time but the thought of custom DAW interface tailored to my workflow needs sounds so sweet!


----------



## germancomponist (Sep 19, 2013)

When I think about the 80's..... . *Only an ATR Magnetics Master Tape 2" costs 386.- €!*

http://www.thomann.de/gb/atr_magnetics_master_tape_2_nab_reel.htm

When you look what you get now for this money...., any questions?


----------



## uselessmind (Sep 19, 2013)

[Rant on]
I have no idea why Mr Asher tends to go on about people feeling entitled to these products.

I thought WTF as well when i saw the new upgrade price going from 349 to 399 for me.

But that has nothing to do with entitlement.
I don't really need the full Cubase nor do it feel entitled to it.
So after a couple of years with the the full versions i went with a somewhat lesser and cheaper alternative when it was available.
If i want to stick with Steinberg going forward i am looking at two options.

Doing the totally non entitled thing and take the downgrade option to Cubase7 Artist.
Except there is no such option, unlike with even cheaper versions i have to pay the full 299.
WTF?

SO the message i get is they really want me to upgrade to the full Cubase that i dont quite need for 349.
Not cheap but it does have a lot of bells an whistles.
But its going to be 399 soon.
WTF? again.

Ok, so they basically tell me the full Cubase isn't quite for me and i should use the downgrade/sidegrade option to Cubase7 Artist.

Which does not exist... because my version was to expensive.
WTF? again.

No, i don't feel entitled to have a certain option to up/down/sidegrade either.

But i do feel entitled to being dumbfounded by pricing decisions and to express that, even though i rarely do.
And i feel entitled to not buying things that don't seem to be worth the price to me.
And i feel entitled to give my money to Orange Tree Samples, Impact Soundworks and others instead.
[Rant off]


----------



## dgburns (Sep 19, 2013)

midi_controller @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Wed Sep 18 said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing wrong with wanting something. There is a lot wrong with then expecting a company to price it in accordance with your finances and starting a thread. With "wtf" about it, as Hans correctly stated.
> ...



here's a little story for ya-
back when I was working in music retail(pro audio) I was just chomping for a mixer so I could have a studio.I already had an 8 track reel to reel,which cost me 2500.00 used.So a soundcraft rep came in one day and said to me that they had a used demo of the soundcraft spirit auto,did I want it? I said HELL YES.he said the price was 4500.00,(8900.00 new btw)cash under the hood so to speak.So I took out a line of credit from my bank for 5k and bought the thing.I took me 5 years to pay it off,on music store clerk wages.I also sold a ton of those mixers,with a 200 dollar bonus everytime I sold them at full price.I always sold them at full price.(money went to pay for mine)
My wife and I had just bought a townhouse,and there were paycheques that sometimes didn't even cover the bills.
so when someone complains about a few hundred bucks for a tool that totally KILLS what I used to own,and worked my bloody fingers off to get,yes,I get a bit hot about it.

there was a time when if you didn't have hardware,you didn't have a studio.For those of us who wanted to make music,it was either pay a studio and work fast,or build your own at considerable expense and it was a very big life commitment.

things we used to do that were hard to achieve are now sometimes so easy,we over look it.I'd say some of you just never had to life through that.Be gratefull.
...just sayin'


----------



## Darthmorphling (Sep 19, 2013)

And then there was the era when Bob the neanderthal had to build his own flute from the leftover dinner carcus. Of course he felt entitled to it, even though it was the other cavemen who actually had to do the hunting. He would have had a successful musical career, but the sabertooth cat dongle ended up killing him.

My dad also had to walk to school, in the snow, both ways.

Times are different and companies have to adapt. Steinberg can charge whatever they want as long as people are willing to pay for it. Once people feel the price no longer coincides with its value, Steinberg will have to change.

I am actually considering Cubase as an option since I now qualify for an upgrade due to my copy of Cubase 6 LE. The price is reasonable for me.


----------



## 667 (Sep 19, 2013)

dgburns @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> so when someone complains about a few hundred bucks for a tool that totally KILLS what I used to own,and worked my bloody fingers off to get,yes,I get a bit hot about it.
> 
> there was a time when if you didn't have hardware,you didn't have a studio.For those of us who wanted to make music,it was either pay a studio and work fast,or build your own at considerable expense and it was a very big life commitment.
> 
> ...


You make a legitimate point as far as value we get for our money these days. But at the same time it's a whole new world in terms of what we get for our money these days.  So price increases need to be justified to customers, there needs to be appropriate value there. It doesn't sound like Steinberg is meeting this expectation very well.

For myself, the $150 upgrade from 6.5 to 7 has delivered no actual value. It's just been a support maintenance fee, basically. So I can see why others might feel similar in terms of their pricing for updates/upgrades (especially an increase).


----------



## midi_controller (Sep 19, 2013)

@dgburns: You are comparing apples to oranges. That hardware might have cost you a ton more, but it also set you apart from everyone else, giving you an edge on the competition and better prospects at making a living from it, and that is partly what justifies the price difference: availability.

And you are also completely missing the point that I'm making. Say you pulled that line of credit out, went to the guy, and he then said "Nope, I want $7,500 now." Wouldn't you want to complain to your friends? Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Next time I hear someone complain about how much a new cell phone costs, should I start yelling at them because they don't remember how much they _used_ to cost, and how much less useful they were? What about the price of computers? The cost of new medical procedures? Microwaves? Musical Instruments? What programming is available on television? How ridiculous would you think I was if I did that?

@MA-Simon: Hans makes a good point, I would check into the discount avenues available. If Steinburg has sales now and then, like it's competitors, perhaps it would be worth waiting for one of those.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Sep 19, 2013)

How about people simply not complaining about what things cost, buy what they can afford to buy and enjoy it, and live without what they cannot afford?

Arcane thinking, I know.


----------



## feck (Sep 19, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> How about people simply not complaining about what things cost, buy what they can afford to buy and enjoy it, and live without what they cannot afford?



Agreed!


----------



## Darthmorphling (Sep 19, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> How about people simply not complaining about what things cost, buy what they can afford to buy and enjoy it, and live without what they cannot afford?
> 
> Arcane thinking, I know.



I do agree with Jay here. There are too many competing products out there to worry about price. If you want a specific feature then pay for it.

However, all of the, "In my day...," comments are kind of ridiculous.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Sep 19, 2013)

Halle-f'inglujah, I was beginning to question my sanity.


----------



## Daryl (Sep 19, 2013)

The only thing I would add is that next time you want to complain about the cost of a product, just stop to think how you react (or feel for that matter) when your employer/client tells you that your fees are too high and only wants to pay you 50%. Not great, I'll bet. :wink: 

D


----------



## Darthmorphling (Sep 19, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> Halle-f'inglujah, I was beginning to question my sanity.



No need to question it, not for this anyway :twisted:


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Sep 19, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Thu Sep 19 said:
> 
> 
> > Halle-f'inglujah, I was beginning to question my sanity.
> ...



:lol:


----------



## midi_controller (Sep 19, 2013)

I''ll agree with the let's stop complaining bit, and this is probably the response I would normally have expected. I was just saying that everyone does it from time to time, it's nothing unusual. If Steinburg has prices that you cannot or do not want to pay, there are plenty of alternatives. Personally, I'm a SONAR user, and happy to be one (mostly).

And I do agree with you to a degree Jay, there are plenty of people that have an entitlement complex, I just think it's unfair to stick that label on an entire generation. I'll balk at prices now and then, not because I think I'm entitled to it, but more because either the product doesn't seem worth it, or (as I believe is the case with the OP) it's not in line with the competition.

@Daryl: Has that actually happened to you? That's pretty horrific. Not really the same thing as prices of commercial products though.


----------



## feck (Sep 19, 2013)

For what it's worth, Studio One is worth checking out for a less expensive alternative to those who are sick of Steinberg. Obviously there is not as much MIDI functionality, but there are a lot of similarities since they share the same developers, and the track transform functionality is SOOOO awesome for composing since it is so easy to switch back and forth from VI midi to audio and free up resources.


----------



## kitekrazy (Sep 19, 2013)

midi_controller @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Wed Sep 18 said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing wrong with wanting something. There is a lot wrong with then expecting a company to price it in accordance with your finances and starting a thread. With "wtf" about it, as Hans correctly stated.
> ...



I really like this post. It's a rant. They'll get over it.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Sep 19, 2013)

And now that Presonus has acquired NotionMusic, you can expect excellent integration of notation capabilities with StudioOne.
http://askaudiomag.com/articles/presonu ... n-software


----------



## feck (Sep 19, 2013)

Jdiggity1 @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> And now that Presonus has acquired NotionMusic, you can expect excellent integration of notation capabilities with StudioOne.
> http://askaudiomag.com/articles/presonu ... n-software


That's some great news!


----------



## kitekrazy (Sep 19, 2013)

midi_controller @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> I''ll agree with the let's stop complaining bit, and this is probably the response I would normally have expected. I was just saying that everyone does it from time to time, it's nothing unusual. If Steinburg has prices that you cannot or do not want to pay, there are plenty of alternatives. Personally, I'm a SONAR user, and happy to be one (mostly).
> 
> And I do agree with you to a degree Jay, there are plenty of people that have an entitlement complex, I just think it's unfair to stick that label on an entire generation. I'll balk at prices now and then, not because I think I'm entitled to it, but more because either the product doesn't seem worth it, or (as I believe is the case with the OP) it's not in line with the competition.
> 
> @Daryl: Has that actually happened to you? That's pretty horrific. Not really the same thing as prices of commercial products though.



You probably never had to pay over $300 for a Sonar upgrade. They are pretty generous when it comes to keeping users.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Sep 19, 2013)

It might be worth comparing the features of a $350 purchase/upgrade to that of a lower priced solution. You will find that it is not simply a software revision (the next number in a sequence) you are paying for, but the technologies, programming, tools, UI, and - as I said - features.


----------



## kitekrazy (Sep 19, 2013)

Not too long ago a vendor offer Cubase 6 with a free upgrade to 7 for $399. It never hurts to get on a lot of mailing lists.


----------



## JT3_Jon (Sep 20, 2013)

While on the one hand I agree about not complaining about the price of a product and instead simply not purchase it if you dont feel its worth it / cant afford it, but part of me also thinks its valuable to point out what one perceives as a mistake being made. I know, for example, when I write a piece of music I LOVE hearing what people didn't like in the piece, as it lets me know what if what I'm try to communicate is coming across, forces me to re-examine the work and see if it does need changes, tweaks or not. With feedback I still choose whether or not to make changes, but at the very least feedback gives me further understanding of the work and what people are perceiving. Isn't this much more constructive than someone just walking out of your concert, screening, public performance, etc without saying a word? 

In this case the perceived mistake being a companies decision to raise the price of their products. It could be valuable for Steinberg to gauge public reactions to their pricing, and without people discussing it, especially before it goes into effect, Steinberg would be missing out on possibly some valuable information. Again, just like its up to me if I want to change my music because of feedback, its still up to Steinberg if they want to take peoples comments into consideration, but without discussion this doesn't happen. Though I do think this should probably be done directly within the companies own channels (user forums, emails, etc) and probably not on VI-control, simply for the fact that it stands more of a chance of reaching Steinberg, who are ultimately in control of their products.


----------



## Resoded (Sep 20, 2013)

Sorry if I'm going OT here, but my advice would be to get an extra job, or several. I've been fortunate enough to find 3 spare jobs that I balance with full time studies and music to fund my sample library addiction and hardware/software shopping sprees for the last 2 years. It takes some planning to cram it all into a week but it works. It can be a bit difficult to find jobs though... but it doesn't take that many hours to be able to afford a decent sequencer.


----------



## ghostnote (Sep 20, 2013)

midi_controller @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Wed Sep 18 said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing wrong with wanting something. There is a lot wrong with then expecting a company to price it in accordance with your finances and starting a thread. With "wtf" about it, as Hans correctly stated.
> ...



what a great post, very mature



Rctec @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> You probably never need the full pro version, from what you are describing your musical goals to be.



Exactly, Cubase Esentials costs around 100 bucks + there are many competitors who offer similar sequencers for an similar or affordable price (I keep hearing very good things about StudioOne and Reaper). I can feel your pain Simon, but there are plenty of alternatives out there.

I remember when I decided to buy Cubase, I looked up the features in the chart and compared them. Multiband, Notation and 5.1 for 250 bucks more - worth it? Not for me, so I went with the Artist version. Same story with those updates, not going to upgrade to 7 anytime soon.


----------



## Ganvai (Sep 20, 2013)

Hehe, great marketing strategy by Steinberg. 

Everyone reduces their prices for a limited time, they upgrade their prices!

Also i totally agree with the opinion that the price for Cubase is totally fair, even I never made big money from that. But it's kind of strange to set a pricetag higher than it was in the beginning. This should be for a really good reason.

But they are clever. I didn't update yet as I'm still very satisfied with Cubase 6. I love this and I have to say that I'm one of the fews who is not lucky with the new mixing-console. But now, even I'm thinking about upgrading before the price rises. 

Clever Mr. Steinberg, very clever.


----------



## davidgary73 (Sep 20, 2013)

Been a long time Logic user. Read that Logic has a colored sound while what you put into Cubase is what you get out. 

Was thinking of trying out Cubase and i have Cubase 6 AI. Can i use Cubase 6 AI to do a full orchestration, EDM, pop etc or would it be better to get Cubase 7 Element? 

Heard that Cubase works better on Windows than Mac. Just wondering if that's true. 

Cheers


----------



## feck (Sep 20, 2013)

davidgary73 @ Fri Sep 20 said:


> Read that Logic has a colored sound while what you put into Cubase is what you get out.


Nope.


----------



## 5Lives (Sep 20, 2013)

davidgary73 @ Fri Sep 20 said:


> Been a long time Logic user. Read that Logic has a colored sound while what you put into Cubase is what you get out.



Not even remotely true.



> Was thinking of trying out Cubase and i have Cubase 6 AI. Can i use Cubase 6 AI to do a full orchestration, EDM, pop etc or would it be better to get Cubase 7 Element?



Compare here http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cu ... ne_up.html



> Heard that Cubase works better on Windows than Mac. Just wondering if that's true.



In my experience, yes, that is true.


----------



## jcs88 (Sep 21, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> And my generation, with all its flaws, was far from apathetic. My generation marched for racial equality and passed the Civil Rights Act, started the Peace Corps, got us out of Vietnam by protesting, etc.



A pretty broad statement to discount anything this generation has done; the largest protests ever recorded (Rome 2003 +600 other cities around the world; I'll give you that many of your generation was there too), rallying against SOPA/PIPA, the movement for LGBT rights, protests against sky rocketing student loan/tuition costs & wall streets opulence (both 'products' handed down to us)... 
I find us in a unique situation where the previous generation, who enjoyed the economy of the 80s & 90s partly as a result of reckless and unsustainable practices call us apathetic, lazy and entitled because we're unemployed and waiting tables. I'm certainly not one for sitting around and complaining about it - I still believe there is work for those who work hard enough. Maybe I'm on a different page/point to you; I'm not expecting anything to be handed to me (certainly not a nice house or a car for next to nothing) but it certainly isn't (entirely?) our fault the economy is in the situation it's in. Much has changed in the way of protest and civil movement as well; certainly in the western countries private ownership and lobbying has cemented position and policy more than ever before, the absolute destruction of many civil liberties and privacies in the name of freedom and security.

Anyway, amazing how a price complain turns into this. I'm just nitpicking your answer while I eat my breakfast. I've used the word 'certainly' too much.


----------



## RasmusFors (Sep 21, 2013)

Logic dosen't colour your sound, but its stock fx has a quite distinctive sound


----------



## MA-Simon (Sep 21, 2013)

After reading the specs: http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cu ... ne_up.html , which unfortunally no longer feature the studio version (number of midi and audio tracks?), it think the Artist version my be enough for my needs.
But the artist has a lower price new, then my initial Cubase Studio purchase, so it does feel a little bit like a cross-downgrade. Its all very psychological at that point.

But there is also no update path to Artist for me. 
http://www.steinberg.net/en/shop/buy_pr ... ist-7.html

Thank you all for your support.


----------



## Daryl (Sep 21, 2013)

midi_controller @ Thu Sep 19 said:


> @Daryl: Has that actually happened to you? That's pretty horrific. Not really the same thing as prices of commercial products though.


Of course it has. And to everyone who has been in the profession for a good many year, I'll warrant. Nobody wants to pay more than they have to, so there are always some who want to negotiate you down from your usual fee. Just think about all the threads on this forum where TV composers are moaning that budgets aren't what they used to be. Proof of this in action.

As far as not being the same as a commercial product, I disagree. It's exactly the same. We also want to be paid for multiple uses of our music. And companies like Pandora want to pay us less.

D


----------



## synthnut (Sep 21, 2013)

I recently switched over to Cubase from another companies product as I thought Cubase was better suited for my needs ..... After useing Cubase for a while , I learned to like some of it , and got along OK once getting use to it .....Then came the upgrade pricing ....When doing a survey for Steinberg , the pricing was one of my complaints ..

When looking at other DAW's and their pricing , Steinberg was at the top of the list cost wise for their product .....Are the upgrades worth it ? .....Probably .......Is Steinberg a quality product ? .....Yes ....... Does one get tired of paying almost the cost of an entire DAW product from another company, for an upgrade ? ......I know I would ......

If you look at it from the "Compared to what " scenario , you can see the priciing differences, and only YOU can decide if they are worth the price of admission or not .....Most folks that continue to purchase the upgrades , do so because Cubase is one product that has been around for so long , and has had a good following from the start .... Most folks would rather chew glass than switch to another DAW that they would have to start all over with spending countless hours learning .... I have a considerable amount of time invested in Cubase , but I can also adapt to another program just like I did when I went from my other DAW to Cubase .....

So basically , I am saying that the Steinberg upgrades are all well and good, and that it's a great company with great products , that charges a lot of money for upgrades that I for one will not be paying for ..... I'm sure that these upgrades are well worth it to some folks , just not for me .....Jim


----------



## midi_controller (Sep 21, 2013)

Daryl @ Sat Sep 21 said:


> Of course it has. And to everyone who has been in the profession for a good many year, I'll warrant. Nobody wants to pay more than they have to, so there are always some who want to negotiate you down from your usual fee. Just think about all the threads on this forum where TV composers are moaning that budgets aren't what they used to be. Proof of this in action.
> 
> As far as not being the same as a commercial product, I disagree. It's exactly the same. We also want to be paid for multiple uses of our music. And companies like Pandora want to pay us less.
> 
> D



I've had people that offered or counter-offered much less than I expected, sure, but _HALF_? That's pretty harsh. Hasn't happened yet (knock on wood), but you're right, it probably will at some point.

As to the second part, what I meant was Steinburg is a large company that probably makes a very good profit on Cubase, while composers on average make _much_ less and are only individuals, so they are pretty much different worlds. I'm not saying that Cubase isn't worth it's asking price, even though I don't use it I still know it's a fantastic sequencer and most likely worth every penny. But I would be shocked if anyone at Steinburg was even the slightest bit upset by this one person on an internet forum who wished they charged less. That's all I meant.

@MA-Simon: I'm glad you could find what you were looking for. Check for third party prices though, I'm noticing that buying direct may be more costly.


----------



## Daryl (Sep 22, 2013)

midi_controller @ Sun Sep 22 said:


> I've had people that offered or counter-offered much less than I expected, sure, but _HALF_? That's pretty harsh. Hasn't happened yet (knock on wood), but you're right, it probably will at some point.


The best example I can think of was when I was asked to orchestrate a pop album and once I'd explained the page rate idea, they came up with £8 per page. At the time I'd just done a couple of features that paid somewhere around £50 per page. They were very surprised when i turned the gig down. :lol: 



midi_controller @ Sun Sep 22 said:


> As to the second part, what I meant was Steinburg is a large company that probably makes a very good profit on Cubase, while composers on average make _much_ less and are only individuals, so they are pretty much different worlds. I'm not saying that Cubase isn't worth it's asking price, even though I don't use it I still know it's a fantastic sequencer and most likely worth every penny. But I would be shocked if anyone at Steinburg was even the slightest bit upset by this one person on an internet forum who wished they charged less. That's all I meant.


I do understand what you're saying, but in a way you are reinforcing the fact that composers often make bad business people. The mere fact that we are individuals and furthermore love what we do makes us very vulnerable. To my mind it isn't that Steinberg is charging too much, for what is a professional product that nobody needs (as opposed to wants) unless they are working at the highest level, it's that as composers many people are prepared to work for small fees, or even no fees, because they are so desperate to composer for a living.

One slightly related thing to consider; it is perfectly true that if you sell something cheaper, you will most likely get more sales and potentially more profit, but with software you have to be careful. If you get the wrong sort of customers they can cost you a lot of time and money in support, and I'm pretty sure that professional users hardly ever need support, so there is always the possibility that a company tries to discourage a particular sort of user. I don't know that this has anything to do with Steinberg, but it is certainly something I've come across.

D


----------



## rayinstirling (Sep 22, 2013)

Daryl @ Sun Sep 22 said:


> it's that as composers many people are prepared to work for small fees, or even no fees, because they are so desperate to composer for a living.
> 
> D



And many people like myself don't expect to get paid and we don't compete against those who do. We just love it and are willing, like a weekend golfer or fly fisher to spend our disposable income on the best of kit. Cubase 7 is truly a tool with which anybody worth their salt can create professionally produced music of many genre.
I've never been disappointed from the days of Atari and certainly not now.
End of!

-Ray


----------



## davidgary73 (Sep 22, 2013)

feck @ Sat Sep 21 said:


> davidgary73 @ Fri Sep 20 said:
> 
> 
> > Read that Logic has a colored sound while what you put into Cubase is what you get out.
> ...





5Lives @ Sat Sep 21 said:


> davidgary73 @ Fri Sep 20 said:
> 
> 
> > Been a long time Logic user. Read that Logic has a colored sound while what you put into Cubase is what you get out.
> ...





RasmusFors @ Sat Sep 21 said:


> Logic dosen't colour your sound, but its stock fx has a quite distinctive sound



Thanks guys for your comments. I'll stick with Logic then. 

Cheers


----------



## Diffusor (Sep 22, 2013)

The way I see it is that we are not customers but investors and patrons of Steinberg. I don't mind the upgrade costs at all. I want Steinberg to thrive so they can continue to develop my favorite DAW. 300 to 400 bucks every 2 or 3 years is not that much at all. That's around 50 cents a day or less!


----------



## Krayh (Sep 22, 2013)

Rctec @ Wed 18 Sep said:


> I can't believe how cheap some of you people are! How many man-hours do you think the programmers at Steinberg have invested in trying to make a professional product for you?



And still they cant do it right. Asking that much money and delivering a product thats obviously still in BETA stage!


----------



## Krayh (Sep 22, 2013)

Rctec @ Wed 18 Sep said:


> I can't believe how cheap some of you people are! How many man-hours do you think the programmers at Steinberg have invested in trying to make a professional product for you?



And still they cant do it right. Asking that much money and delivering a product thats obviously still in BETA stage!


----------



## Rctec (Sep 23, 2013)

@Krayh....which particular part is still in so obviously in beta?
-Hz-


----------



## Krayh (Sep 23, 2013)

Rctec @ Mon 23 Sep said:


> @Krayh....which particular part is still in so obviously in beta?
> -Hz-



Take a look at the official forum, the mixer is a mess. And the one I'm still waiting for after 10 freaking months, is that the plugins still go into hide mode on the 2nd or x. monitor


----------



## Guy Rowland (Sep 23, 2013)

I've been using Cubase now for a couple of years. In truth, I still swear at it more than, say, Pro Tools or Sonar, which I suspect is because I'm not a native Cubase thinker - basic navigation I still find slightly frustrating - specifically the way that midi parts and zooming work in the key editor still feels clumsy to me. I think I have yet to find the magic combination of preferences and shortcuts that make me work seamlessly with it - this no doubt is my fault and not Steinbergs.

It's not the cheapest DAW out there, but on the other hand pound for pound I think PT is more expensive. I do think 7 is still very much a work in progress - of course as hz definitively demonstrates it is still highly capable, but depending on how you work and exactly what your rig is, there are ongoing glitches and / or frustrations. I'm still on 7.0.2 cos in that blissful incarnation track names in the mixer weren't "intelligently" shortened, the single most important reason to upgrade from 6.x in my case. In 7.0.3 that "bug" was "fixed" and - as in 6.x - I find huge template track names pretty unreadable (PT is even worse, incidentally). I hear on the grapevine this is being addressed in the medium term as an option. Others have clearly experienced graphics problems with the mixer that I personally haven't. While the UI feels a little ungainly, the hyrogliphics in 6.x weren't exactly user-friendly, and stuff like Quick Controls (and their EuCon tethering) is much improved in 7.

From my experience, the most common complaint from users of all DAWs is that existing bugs aren't fixed and new features are unwanted. I think that's true of Cubase too, and that tends to be where the forum angst comes from. The fact is, for me anyway, I don't think that a really good DAW yet exists for media composing. If you pulled the best elements of Pro Tools, Cubase, Sonar and Digital Performer together it would be a start, but IMO there are some really basic fundamental things that none of them shine at. A DAW designed from the ground up for media composers - that natively understood independent cues within a fixed overall timeline (and yet could cope easily with edit changes), knew what a sync track was and how we like to work with it, could add a mutlitimbral VI with sensible midi and audio routing in a single launch window, would allow collaboration and revisions (all for example) - I'd buy it like a shot, and pay over the odds for it, frankly. I'm not sure how likely such a specialised product is, mind you - I can always hope and dream. In the meantime, warts and all, Cubase remains the best for me when midi composing.


----------



## rayinstirling (Sep 23, 2013)

Hi Guy,
How come you weren't featured on this.......... :lol: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/learningzone/clips/the-role-of-the-dubbing-mixer/12722.html


----------



## Guy Rowland (Sep 23, 2013)

rayinstirling @ Mon Sep 23 said:


> Hi Guy,
> How come you weren't featured on this.......... :lol:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/learningzone/clips/the-role-of-the-dubbing-mixer/12722.html



Ha! Wise words, all of 'em. Wish it was mandatory for all producer / directors to watch it.

Anyway, back to Cubase...


----------



## Tanuj Tiku (Sep 23, 2013)

This is a funny thread. I am doing massive projects on my computer which go upto 20 GB easily in RAM load, 300 tracks - mix of fx, group, MIDI, audio and have no problems with the mixer or anything else.

There are a couple of very, very small bugs. The scroll stops working in between sometimes, but you just zoom into any track and come back out - then it works fine.

In between, there was a small bug with the Stereo Out Master Bus which has since been fixed - it used to get stuck at times.

Really outside of such very minute bugs, Cubase holds up extremely well and has no problems as such for me.

I have used it for about 7 years now without any problems. All DAW's will have their problems but as long as it is not discouraging you to create music and has actual problems which just make it crash or major drawbacks, there is no need to rant.

It is very cheap indeed. You could make this money in a single gig. 

If you cannot, then start with the educational discount. If you are doing a decent gig, it will pay. 

If you are not getting paid at all for months or years, you are doing something wrong. 

Their updates are usually free - the big ones are once again very cheap. The new mixer view has been fixed in the latest update and you really have to understand what kind of time and talent goes into developing such tools.

There are so many great features and we do not always use everything. 

Want list and need list are two different things. They have a huge user base and lots of feedback. Luckily, I think they are usually listening to guys who know what they are talking about.

What part of Cubase do you think is still in beta after a 7.0.5 update?

And when I say its cheap - it really puts Europeans and Americans in a corner - I am based in Mumbai, one Euro is 85 rupees, a dollar is 64 rupees and a pound is over 100 Rupees.

We do not get paid in any of these currencies. Piracy is rampant in India and most people I work with (some very big people and rich in India) do not own more than 20% original software.

I pay a lot of money each year to developers and for hardware which is cheaper for so many people abroad. Our biggest film hit of all time has made $46 million dollars. That's the budget of an average Hollywood movie. Probably even more. 

Just a little perspective 


Tanuj.


----------



## Audio (Sep 23, 2013)

I've switched to cubase at the beginning of July of this year. I've been loving it. I greatly prefer editing audio in cubase to logic. I've recorded tons of my own music in that time and have become very comfortable with the program.

Except one week ago I decided to use it on a client for the first time...it was a terrible experience. 

Several hours into tracking pops and clicks started happening like crazy during playback. 99.9% of these weren't recorded, it would happen at random times during loop playback of any given audio file.

Things went from bad to worse when, during guitar tracking, audio would just cut off completely while recording. Several fantastic takes were ruined by this. There would be an audible blip, and then a flatline signal.

In the end I just moved the project to logic 9 to finish it, as I only had a couple days to get it done and mixed. Lucky for me my client was a good sport, even though the whole thing was pretty embarrassing for me (I absolutely hate wasting peoples time).

After searching the internet I found this:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... ilit=jim+b

It seems this has been an issue for some people since February. In that thread a fix was posted by somebody at steinberg, but I'm on a mac so I contacted support and am awaiting their suggestions.

Personally, I don't have any problems with the mixer, and I haven't had other smaller problems that others seem to have, but THIS bug is a serious one, and one that I hope is addressed quickly!!


----------



## peksi (Sep 23, 2013)

good to remember steinberg is one of those good companies that recognize student status. so if you are a student you can get quite decent pricing.


----------



## H.R. (Oct 8, 2013)

I've been using Cubase 5.1 for years and very few times I encounter bugs. Haven't upgrade to 7 yet but I'm very loyal to 5! 

Out of subject:I don't know why Hans Zimmer still using Cubase 5. I saw a new interview with him and I saw Cubase 5 running in background.


----------



## dpasdernick (Oct 8, 2013)

Steinberg revolutionized the way I make music and I would pay more fore their software than the asking price if need be. I come from the days of having 7 synths MIDI'd up to a Workstation that had only 8 tracks of sequencing, barely any editing, crap sounds and no effects. There were so many wires. I absolutely love and support Steinberg and hope to God they stay in business for ever.

Anyone who feels that Steinberg is ripping them off I have a simple solution for you. Don't buy or use their software. (meaning if you don't buy it don't you dare pirate it) Using the excuse of a poor student is not going to work. We were all in that boat at some time but worked hard to achieve what we have. Sometimes it comes a little later than you hope but you'll get there if you persevere. This software is dirt cheap compared to the gear we used to buy and 1000 times better.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 8, 2013)

HZ Still using C5?


----------



## Christof (Oct 8, 2013)

Setting up a small flame war between Cubase and Logic users here?
Obviously I should quit composing now 
By the way, just saw a great Peter gabriel show last week, he uses Logic as cueing system, pretty cool stuff....


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Oct 8, 2013)

Thomas_J @ Tue Oct 08 said:


> If I was forced to use logic I would quit composing



I'll pass that on to Sean Callery, Reinhold Heil, Johnny Klimek, David Newman, Charlie Clouser, etc,

And, oh, NICK PHOENIX :lol:


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Oct 8, 2013)

Thomas_J @ Tue Oct 08 said:


> I'm only speaking for myself of course! There's amazing music written in logic all the time. I just see how frustrated nick gets with logic every time I'm in his studio! But.. whatever gets the job done



I'll have to go over there and give him some pointers 

Obviously, it is a subjective thing. I have helped a number of Cubase users transition to Logic over the years and they have not gone back. But I know many who have gone the opposite way.

I will say this: if I had known years ago that Logic would be bought by Apple, which is not a company that has music/video as a core business that NEEDS it to succeed, I might have chosen Cubase/PC.

The Logic developers are totally still fully committed. Apple, not really.


----------



## Christof (Oct 8, 2013)

However, it's all about music at the end of the day.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Oct 8, 2013)

Christof @ Tue Oct 08 said:


> However, it's all about music at the end of the day.



Yes and no. It's also about getting work done efficiently and pleasurably. I really like composing in Logic but assuming I could learn to like another DAW as well or better, it would take me literally hundreds of hours to get as good with any other DAW as I am with Logic.


----------



## Daryl (Oct 8, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Oct 08 said:


> Christof @ Tue Oct 08 said:
> 
> 
> > However, it's all about music at the end of the day.
> ...


And that's the only point worth considering. Until your DAW of choice (or notation program, for that matter) slows you down enough to want to change there is no point even thinking about it.

I was lucky enough to start with Cubase, so although there are possibly a couple of features in Logic that could save me time, a lot of what I do on a regular basis is not even possible in Logic with anything like the same ease. Had I started in Logic I wouldn't know any difference, so the point is moot.

D


----------



## germancomponist (Oct 8, 2013)

Thomas_J @ Tue Oct 08 said:


> I'm only speaking for myself of course! There's amazing music written in logic all the time. I just see how frustrated nick gets with logic every time I'm in his studio! But.. whatever gets the job done



:lol:


----------



## H.R. (Oct 8, 2013)

One great man once said: "The best DAW is the one you're used to it"

Now find that great man!


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Oct 8, 2013)

H.R. @ Tue Oct 08 said:


> One great man once said: "The best DAW is the one you're used to it"
> 
> Now find that great man!



i'm here :lol:

From my most recent Film Music Magazine column:

"I always advise people that there will always be things gained and things missed and that unless it will earn you more money or save you a lot of time in the long run, if you know your DAW well, I think you should stay put."


----------



## quantum7 (Oct 8, 2013)

Like some have already mentioned, I too have been using Cubase since I started using it on the Atari ST nearly 25 years ago. Every update Steinberg releases there is someone on the Cubase forum bitching to Steinberg that that version in "unusable". I guess I've been lucky for all these years because I cannot ever remember ANY version being unusable or so unstable that I couldn't work....and I use Cubase nearly every day. Sure, there's been a few bugs here and there that have been annoying, but I've NEVER used software that didn't have bugs at some time or another. I've paid for every update/upgrade ever released for Cubase and am guessing I've spent over 2k on Cubase since its inception- MONEY VERY WELL SPENT in my opinion and a VERY small price to pay for a tool that has helped me realize all the music I've composed for over 2 decades now. Keep up the fantastic work Steinberg!!!


----------



## NYC Composer (Oct 8, 2013)

Me-Oberheim DSX hardware sequencer-Vision-Cubase. I've gazed at them all, they all look pretty state of the art these days, but I like to keep things simple.

It took me years to stop being missing Vision, though. I think I'm finally there. No, really.
:wink:


----------



## H.R. (Oct 9, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Oct 08 said:


> H.R. @ Tue Oct 08 said:
> 
> 
> > One great man once said: "The best DAW is the one you're used to it"
> ...



Actually it was a direct quote from Hans Zimmer but the main idea has the same message. :D


----------

