# What Samples have you regretted buying?



## easyrider

Having recently upgraded my studio space and wanting to learn more about orchestration and composition I Bought NI Komplete Ulitmate CE and a S61 on sale

Its certainly fun adding to my existing guitar, bass and drum kit recordings...and for what I paid I have zero regrets.

I also bought Spitire Chamber strings in the wish list sale mainly due to curiosity...but it’s fantastic and although I thought expensive even with sale price I have been playing with it a lot and don’t regret the outlay on top of my initial a Komplete spend.

I’m also finding orchestral composition very relaxing and therapeutic 

I was wondering what you guys and gals have bought in the past and now regret...I would like to avoid these pitfalls if possible or is it a case of the journey has begun....just walk the road....

thanks for you input.

Peace and Love

easyrider


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## Uiroo

United Strings of Europe, just bought it because it was on sale. But I have SSS, SCS and Soarings Strings, and while these three sound different, USOE just sounds worse in my ears.

I wish I could sell it, I would even gift it to anyone who doesn't have the money.


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## ridgero

- NI Komplete (was part of the S88 Keyboard).
- Albion 3


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## Bluemount Score

Albion ONE. It's a good starter library but I barely got into it, before "better", non section based libraries replaced it for me.
I use the Easter Island hits here and there but that's basically it.


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## Jaap

There is quite a lenghty topic about this here: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/most-disappointing-library-purchase.68896/


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## Eptesicus

Synchron Strings, because, well, its rubbish.


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## nilblo

NI Symphony Series. Strings. Auto divisi. Doesn´t sound realistic at all. 60 players playing two notes sounds like 120 players. Some serious cloning going on?


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## Jeremy Spencer

ridgero said:


> - NI Komplete (was part of the S88 Keyboard).



Ditto. I like a couple of the pianos and the odd VI, but on a whole, not worth even close to what it costs.


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## KallumS

Spitfire Studio Orchestra, mainly because I haven't really found a use for it yet.

Edit: I should clarify that I regret buying SStO not because it's bad but because personally I could've spent the money elsewhere.


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## KallumS

Iswhatitis said:


> Love SStO and strongly recommend you upgrade to SStO Professional.



I do plan on getting it one day - I'd need to get a bigger SSD for it. I'd really love to use it as my main library but at the moment all of my needs are catered for by the Metropolis Arks and Inspire series.


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## Sears Poncho

Scarbee Funk Guitar. 2 reasons:

1. "Funk" does not come from a computer, I have learned.

2. I have unfortunately also learned that I am the least funkiest musician in the history of mankind. I have less funk than John Tesh and Kenny G.


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## nolotrippen

As of yesterday, Alicia Keys (dear artists, shut up)


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## FuzyDunlop

Bluemount Score said:


> Albion ONE. It's a good starter library but I barely got into it, before "better", non section based libraries replaced it for me.
> I use the Easter Island hits here and there but that's basically it.



Same exact experience for me. I didn't know anything about sample libraries at the time, although I don't really regret using Albion One as a starting point because if I had held off and waited to buy a bunch of other libraries I may never have really started composing at all. 

I still use some of the stuff from Albion One, but not much.


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## J-M

None.


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## pianistje

Sears Poncho said:


> Scarbee Funk Guitar. 2 reasons:
> 
> 1. "Funk" does not come from a computer, I have learned.
> 
> 2. I have unfortunately also learned that I am the least funkiest musician in the history of mankind. I have less funk than John Tesh and Kenny G.


Hahaha that is funny


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## BezO

Spitfire Kepler Orchestra - Great sounds, but the lack of keyswitching kills it for me. And the NKS implementation is a joke.

Spitfire Edna Earth - The Kinematic add on saves it a bit, but ehh other than that.


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## Bollen

Anything by 8dio...


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## InLight-Tone

Bollen said:


> Anything by 8dio...


Century series is awesome, they seem to have learned a thing or two...


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## South Thames

'Action Strikes'. 

It's seemingly incredibly flexible - lots of different options on each pattern - yet sounds loopy, lame and samey no matter how much you tweak it.


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## Bollen

InLight-Tone said:


> Century series is awesome, they seem to have learned a thing or two...


Bought it... Regret it...


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## dsblais

_Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra._ It's not bad, but have not found it at the level of VSL or OT and it was too expensive.

_Iconica Opus._ Despite being a joint Steinberg-OT project, I just haven't found this very playable. The Halion player is likely part of the reason.

_Cinematic Studio Solo Strings. _So much vibrato, huge footprint, and not nearly as playable as I'd like.

_SWAM Violin and Cello_. I'd like to think this was just operator error, but I have not been able to get the tone (versus the technique) anywhere near as realistic as good sample based libraries.

(Disclaimer: I like to play VIs as actual instruments. Carefully programmed sound possibilities are less significant to me than what it "feels" like as a player.)


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## Odum Abekah

dsblais said:


> _Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra._ It's not bad, but have not found it at the level of VSL or OT and it was too expensive.
> 
> _Iconica Opus._ Despite being a joint Steinberg-OT project, I just haven't found this very playable. The Halion player is likely part of the reason.
> 
> _Cinematic Studio Solo Strings. _So much vibrato, huge footprint, and not nearly as playable as I'd like.
> 
> _SWAM Violin and Cello_. I'd like to think this was just operator error, but I have not been able to get the tone (versus the technique) anywhere near as realistic as good sample based libraries.
> 
> (Disclaimer: I like to play VIs as actual instruments. Carefully programmed sound possibilities are less significant to me than what it "feels" like as a player.)



I hear you about CSSS sometimes - I watched some comparison videos and it actually sounded to me like Berlin Strings First Chairs fit CSS as a better layering companion, for the reason of too much vibrato in CSSS. I’m wary of using it without CSS; the vib feel untamed without it.


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## dsblais

Odum Abekah said:


> I hear you about CSSS sometimes - I watched some comparison videos and it actually sounded to me like Berlin Strings First Chairs fit CSS as a better layering companion, for the reason of too much vibrato in CSSS. I’m wary of using it without CSS; the vib feel untamed without it.


I actually much prefer First Chairs, especially for its legato. I don't have the Nocturne instruments, but those might be even better to get that standout sound.


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## mscp

Nothing really. Even though I have SFA,OT, and others, I am playing around with the Symphobias to see what these libraries could do for me in the future.


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## unclecheeks

Pretty much 3/4 of libraries I buy, in the first week. About 80% of them I actually end up liking certain aspects and getting at least SOME use out of down the line, after the initial buyers remorse period subsides.


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## Gerter

I bought "The Dark Side" from Eastwest a long time ago and it was just plain boring. It felt like they had taken samples they already had, put on some distorition and maximum one other effect and suddenly that's a new sound we can sell! I don't think I ever used it in anything I produced.


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## ProfoundSilence

dsblais said:


> _Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra._ It's not bad, but have not found it at the level of VSL or OT and it was too expensive.
> 
> _Iconica Opus._ Despite being a joint Steinberg-OT project, I just haven't found this very playable. The Halion player is likely part of the reason.
> 
> _Cinematic Studio Solo Strings. _So much vibrato, huge footprint, and not nearly as playable as I'd like.
> 
> _SWAM Violin and Cello_. I'd like to think this was just operator error, but I have not been able to get the tone (versus the technique) anywhere near as realistic as good sample based libraries.
> 
> (Disclaimer: I like to play VIs as actual instruments. Carefully programmed sound possibilities are less significant to me than what it "feels" like as a player.)


I was kind of partial to the iconica woodwinds, but I'm not made of money and I have BWW


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## TomislavEP

Before I've stepped in the world of Komplete, I've purchased several sample libraries from IK Multimedia. This was some time after I've started with Pro Tools 8 LE - I've wanted better libraries than those shipped with the DAW, but getting Komplete was a too costly option for me back then. So, I went with IK Multimedia products as an alternative. But now I must say that I regret going this way since I didn't even touch those libraries any more after getting my first versions of Kontakt and Komplete.

Speaking of Kontakt libraries, I often have a somewhat limited budget so I tend to be quite pragmatic when buying them. But I've still made quite a few errors in the process, maybe due to this very reason. For instance, in the past, I've purchased "London Symphonic Strings" as an alternative to the more expensive strings libraries available back then (Adagietto, Cinematic Strings 2). Although this was a VSTBuzz deal, I still feel sorry for accepting it.


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## Oliver

+1 Kepler


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## Ben H

Jaap said:


> There is quite a lenghty topic about this here: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/most-disappointing-library-purchase.68896/



But why use an already existing thread, when you can just start a new one.


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## JeffvR

CineStrings and Berlin Brass


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## Kuusniemi

Anything by Aria Sounds. Didn't learn from buying their ethnic winds but did learn from buying the London Symphonic Strings.... Thankfully didn't buy them at their asking price.


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## PeterKorcek

Komplete package - lots of stuff, but for me only a fraction was interesting or usable. Others may have different opinion.

Cinestrings - I actually like the sound, but still have problems with clicks and pops at the start of some samples, don't know why.


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## LudovicVDP

Not using Kinetic-Metal as much as I thought I could...


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## AndyP

Sampletank 4 Max. 

I loved using Sampletank 2, there were some great sounds and Miroslav 1 was one of my first VI orchestra libraries.

There are definitely some nice and useful sounds in it. But also a lot of things that are not useful for me, or I have in better quality elsewhere. Lots of loop and EDM stuff.
The orchestral and cinematic percussion that are included are useless for me, strange loops, weak and out of shape sounds. If then only a few RRs, dynamic level. Mass instead of quality. I still like the Brandenburg Piano best.

Unfortunately, I have bought without dealing with it before more intensively. I think it was also in pre-sale for a significantly reduced price.

The Miroslav 2 update disappointed me as well. The instruments that got keyswitches are so inconsistent. The basic sound is quite nice, but except for a few percussion and ensemble instruments I don't use it. Basically it is a pity, because Miro 2 has a nice basic sound.

They advertise legato, but I don't think they know what it is.


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## brojd

Albion ONE (Spitfire) - Not that I hate it, it just never gets used.

Requiem (8Dio) - Same here, never gets used, and just after I bought it Soundiron came and sort of killed it for me with Mercury and Venus.


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## M Abela

Albion ONE. Fast replaced by other libraries.


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## Mike Fox

Majestica
Liberis
Symphonic Shadows

LASS (not because it's a bad library, but because i never use it)

Fortunately, most of what I've purchased I can find good use for.


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## BezO

I forgot one. The only Soniccouture disappointment, Xtended Piano. True GAS as I've not been able to find any use for it. Very uninspiring considering how much I like everything else I have from them.


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## CT

I have a few things that I just don't use, either because I bought too quickly without really considering how it would fit into my music, or because I have something newer that's made it redundant. Fortunately, the only VI's I've regretted buying because I actually found them bad were able to be re-sold/refunded.


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## BezO

dsblais said:


> ..._Cinematic Studio Solo Strings. _So much vibrato, huge footprint, and not nearly as playable as I'd like...


Ughh. I've been waiting/hoping for a sale on these since I finally decided against Spitfire Solo Strings (I know the articulation per track folks don't mind, but I still don't understand why legato is only available separately). But I'm seeing a fair amount of negative opinions on these.

Being a Komplete Kontrol user, wanting something NKS compatible is making my search for solo strings harder than it should be.


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## Robert_G

I bought a tonne this year and I really like most of what i got....but not everything...

Biggest disapointment was Spitfire Studio Woodwinds Core. Hate the single tree mic.

Realivox Blue...but 100% my fault. She has the best wordbuilder and smoothest legato ive seen for singles vocal, but no matter how much i want her to work, her voice doesnt suit classical and or orchestra arranged/epic music...and thats just about all i do. Ethera works way better for me personally. Ill get Shevanni and Era Vocal Codex at some point too.

Im on the fence about Voices of Rapture. Im not disapointed with it....just wish i could find more use for it.

8dio Jennifer....great potential and i only paid 38 for it. If i would have paid full price (178) for it...id go into a rage over that purchase. It needs a good programming update and it will be ok.

Komplete Ultimate 12 upgrade from Komplete 12 Standard. Got the upgrade at half price, but looking to use the libs a bit more. A lot of the cinematic libraries work better for inspiration and learning than using them in a track. I barely touch the Symphony Essentials libs.

Orange Tree Texas Twang and Lap Steel...because i suck at Guitars but bought them anyway. They sound and play fantastic as long as its not me doing the playing.


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## mohsohsenshi

Hollywood Orchestra

Well, I got it at huge discount price, it is still a good library comes up with more recent libraries and sounds great. But I'm tired of its workflow and use it less after trying libraries with better engine/organisation of articulations, such as SF's stuff, VSL synchron player etc.

I also spent a lot of on upgrading my computer to use it.
How much I hope EW making a more user friendly version...


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## nolotrippen

Kuusniemi said:


> Anything by Aria Sounds. Didn't learn from buying their ethnic winds but did learn from buying the London Symphonic Strings.... Thankfully didn't buy them at their asking price.


Almost bought their solo strings. Whew!


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## artomatic

SA Jazz Drums / Brushes & Mallets. Bought them this week.
The samples are still good but they really need an update / overhaul as it's still stuck in 2012 - just too old!
Buyer's remorse here.


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## Jacob Cadmus

On the fence of whether or not I regret buying Light and Sound Chamber Strings. Great sound, though I haven’t found use for it yet except for the fx tremolos. Also trying to convince myself that I like the legato scripting... maybe it’s the lack of consistency across the sections that is irking me - 1st violins sound great, cellos and bass sound okay, though 2nd violins and violas I’m not too crazy about.


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## ALittleNightMusic

Hollywood Brass Gold - nice sound but hate the workflow and has since been replaced

CineWinds and CineBrass - don’t think the programming is all that good compared to CSB and JXL or BWW. Tone is nice but also much fewer articulations.

Spitfire Orchestral Grand and Felt Piano - both nice but I haven’t found a need for them given my other libraries. I have way too many piano libraries in general. OA Felt Piano is my favorite for that tone.

Spitfire British Drama Toolkit - May be the case of just having too many libraries but like the Albions, this one goes unused or under-used. Need to explore it more and layer it but a reminder not to buy things without a plan on how to use them or a necessity.

I’m sure one man’s trash is another man’s treasure though. These are all great libraries that I imagine I’m not using to their potentials!


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## avocado89

Thankfully, there are only a few that I regret and interestingly enough most of them come from one of my favourite developers' Spitfire.

- Kepler (I get what they were going for here, but the strings sound awful, like fizzy, synthy , I keep trying to come back to it and use it on one of my projects, but I just keep scrapping it)

- Angular, Fragile and Woodwind evo series (I just really don't like their player, and again the string sounds are too synthy, too sharp, I dunno I just regret buying all of them)

It just goes to show you it's not about how much the library costs, how great the demos or walkthroughs sound, it really comes down to when you actually have it downloaded on your computer, loaded up in your DAW, then and only then can you know for sure if it's for you.

I truly believe sample library devs need to start rethinking their refund/reselling policy or move to a subscription service.

I know the running joke has been will SA ever move to a subscription model, but I think it's time for them to do this, some big players have already done this, like EastWest, Splice, Output, etc.

If you aren't going to offer refunds or the ability for customers to resell, then give us a subscription model so we can test out the products for ourselves, and make the decision to purchase for the full price or continue paying monthly or jettisoning that sample library from our precious hard drive space into the garbage.

Purchasing a sample library shouldn't be like playing blackjack or rolling dice and praying to the sample gods to "hit the jackpot" - like come on this is our hard earned money, that we choose to spend on samples because we are composers ourselves that are trying to make a name for ourselves and we choose to support great sample developers like SA, OT, etc. I know they offer many free products like LABS and now OT's LAYERS - which are amazing and I am so grateful for them, but just because they are offering free products doesn't negate the fact that there are still some serious deficiencies in their refund and reseller policies.

Anyways, I know I went off on a tangent there, but I think it kind of ties into this thread of "libraries we regret purchasing" maybe we wouldn't have so many regrets if we could truly test them out first.

*End of rant*


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## Mikro93

avocado89 said:


> move to a subscription service.


Please no. (Off-topic and personal opinion here )


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## easyrider

Mikro93 said:


> Please no. (Off-topic and personal opinion here )



Agree, Subscription sucks.....it. costs more in the long run...just imagine having 10 different subs to different developers....

Run for the hills!


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## theStyg

_Aria Sounds: most of their catalogue _- I feel bad saying it, but besides the Silk Piano (decent for orchestral layering, but not at all "silky") and maybe Aurora Choir (horribly overpriced), nothing of theirs seems at all useful. Anything good is generally completely blown out of the water by something else of similar/better pricing. Their LSS series in particular is one of the least interesting strings libraries I've ever used. There's just no personality or character, and they sound keyboard-y as all hell.

_8dio: any of_ _their guitar libraries_ - I feel I've given both their Steel String and Nylon guitars enough time to wow me or present an opportunity where they'd be useful. Hasn't happened. Their ukulele is ok, and their Guitalele is interesting but the legato playing on it is annoying.

_Impact Soundworks: Meditation_ - This was the only major disappointment from this company. I don't like the interface, and the sounds are, from what I can tell, almost completely recycled from their other libraries. This was an example of a REALLY good demo track selling me on it. I'm not perfect.

_Spitfire Audio - Solo Strings Legacy_ - Got this in their firesale out of curiosity. They'd be great if the reverb wasn't so out of control, even when it's supposedly "off."

_Light and Sound - Chamber Strings 2_ - This one needs a disclaimer. They're good, but for my purposes, not very versatile or handy. Take a listen to the demos and see if they're something you can get use out of. Only major quality problem I have is the 'playable legato' feature they patched in isn't very good.

_Spaectrum Arts - The Container_ - This one's preference, but at a glance and from the demos it seemed like they'd have some interesting sounds but... yeah, I don't know. I just never found myself using it. Soundiron's Rust series is superior.


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## averystemmler

BezO said:


> But I'm seeing a fair amount of negative opinions on these.



There are a fair amount of positive opinions out there on them too, mine being one of them. Solo string samples are hard, and the legato on these is the only really convincing example of it I've found (if anyone has any others, do tell!). The vibrato can definitely be a bit much at higher dynamics - and is either on or off - but solo strings get phasey when you start getting in between crossfade layers, so I understand the logic. They did an amazing job avoiding that with the dynamic layers, considering.

I use them all the time, both exposed and alongside CSS. I think the demos on their site are a pretty good representation of their capabilities.


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## Michael Stibor

Lots of little sub $100 programs, but of the bigger ones I'd say:

Spitfire Studio Woodwinds Core
Spitfire Bernard Herrmann Composer Toolkit
Spitfire Albion (original).

I've heard Spitfire makes good products. I just haven't purchased one yet.

I'd also add Cinematic Studio solo strings (_Love_ Cinematic stuff, but wish I had skipped this one).


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## avocado89

easyrider said:


> Agree, Subscription sucks.....it. costs more in the long run...just imagine having 10 different subs to different developers....
> 
> Run for the hills!



I get it - I totally do. I think I coming more from the perspective of just wanting to be able to try it out with no strings attached. So instead of shilling out $500 for a SA library, I've only dropped $20 for a one month sub, and if I really like the library I'll just pay full price right away so I don't have to keep paying $20 a month.

Obviously there are many holes to the subscription model, and you are right you can end up paying more in the long run. So maybe some sort of rent-to-own service like Reason Studios (formerly Propellerhead) as implemented - so basically after you've paid off the product, it's yours.


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## BezO

averystemmler said:


> There are a fair amount of positive opinions out there on them too, mine being one of them...


The demos sound great to me. But of all the VIs I've been impressed with and wanted, opinions on this one have been the most varied. Seems like for every one person that likes them, there's another that doesn't. See mikefrommontre above. Never fails.

I'll likely go with them as they appear to be the best meeting my criteria. I'm not happy that I found out about them probably shortly after last year's holiday sale. Hopefully they do something in the spring.


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## kitekrazy

Anything I buy from now on. I don't need anything else. This goes for softsynths, FX plugins. Then the other regrets are often the multitude of DAWs.


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## Quasar

avocado89 said:


> I get it - I totally do. I think I coming more from the perspective of just wanting to be able to try it out with no strings attached. So instead of shilling out $500 for a SA library, I've only dropped $20 for a one month sub, and if I really like the library I'll just pay full price right away so I don't have to keep paying $20 a month.
> 
> Obviously there are many holes to the subscription model, and you are right you can end up paying more in the long run. So maybe some sort of rent-to-own service like Reason Studios (formerly Propellerhead) as implemented - so basically after you've paid off the product, it's yours.


How can you try out string libraries with no strings attached?


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## Billy Palmer

I bought the 'drunken upright' for like $3 when I needed a decayed piano sound.
I found the timbre too extreme, and had better results just sticking izotope vinyl on my existing piano libraries. Didn't use.

Otherwise, nothing I've found outright useless.

I somewhat regret picking up Angel Strings on sale. Didn't really need them. That said, the more unusual longs and fx have occasionally been handy.


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## dpasdernick

If I could get my money back from everything Spitfire and everything 8DIO I'd be a richer happier man.


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## kgdrum

Broadway Lite 😩


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## Alfeus Aditya

I'm sorry for OOT, but I'm happy to read a thread like this that makes me think 3x to buy something and re-check what I already have and maximize it


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## porrasm

FuzyDunlop said:


> Same exact experience for me. I didn't know anything about sample libraries at the time, although I don't really regret using Albion One as a starting point because if I had held off and waited to buy a bunch of other libraries I may never have really started composing at all.
> 
> I still use some of the stuff from Albion One, but not much.


I mainly use it to scetch a string chord line, the longs in that library sound fantastic.


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## easyrider

dpasdernick said:


> If I could get my money back from everything Spitfire and everything 8DIO I'd be a richer happier man.




What dont you like about them?


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## NekujaK

- Albion ONE
- British Drama Toolkit
- All Rast Sound libraries
- Swing & Swing More (to be fair, haven't really spent enough time with them)
- Aizerx Classic Trailer Toolkit (UI is a disaster, individual WAVs can be good on their own)
- Apocalypse Percussion Elements
- Drums of the Deep 1 & 2


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## andreªs

Spitfire HZ Piano. I still have a bad taste in my mouth...


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## Akarin

Prague Solo Strings. But at least, they made me laugh when I tried using them. A true masterclass in awful programming.


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## pawelmorytko

andreªs said:


> Spitfire HZ Piano. I still have a bad taste in my mouth...


me too my friend, I can't believe I paid about £200 for that when literally every piano I bought under £100 was better, especially Noire which is now my favourite and was £65


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## AndyP

NekujaK said:


> - British Drama Toolkit


As I read this, it comes back to me. BDT is not mine either (Time Micro does that for me). 
I bought it with the TON Sale, together with EDNA Earth (I won't use it very often) and the orchestral grand piano (what was that supposed to be?).

So I put TON on my list, fortunately it was very cheap and I will certainly use the one or other patch.


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## Mikro93

Funny enough, several of the libraries mentioned in this topic were close to game-changers for me. Komplete, British Drama Toolkit, stuff by 8Dio, even CineBrass (not the most versatile, but soooooo good at what's it good at)...

Just the complimentary reminder to everybody to take this topic with a grain of salt


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## AndyP

Mikro93 said:


> Funny enough, several of the libraries mentioned in this topic were close to game-changers for me.


No, no, no, you have to follow the rules! BBCSO is the official game changer 2019/2020!


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## KallumS

AndyP said:


> No, no, no, you have to follow the rules! BBCSO is the official game changer 2019/2020!



BBCSO is old now, NEO is the new game changer.


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## Sarah Mancuso

I wasn't expecting to get a lot out of British Drama Toolkit, and probably wouldn't have gone for it on its own, but as part of The Ton it's felt nicely worthwhile. Treating the soft patches as intimate solo-instrument evos works quite nicely as textured longs to play chords with.



AEF said:


> SCS. It is on one hand a brilliant library. On the other, I dont find a home for it.


Everywhere. SCS's ideal use is: everywhere, all the time.


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## AEF

Speaking of BBCSO: i regret buying it. if it were a kontakt library i might be more accepting of its many shortcomings, but the player just kills it for me in the end.

SCS. It is on one hand a brilliant library. On the other, I dont find a home for it. Chamber music is named such bc it was for small ensembles in small rooms. Recording it how they did in AIR makes it sound like quarter sections of a symphonic section. 

The Berlin Inspires are really just sketching libraries on the go. “Save now, spend double later”.


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## Michael Stibor

So much Spitfire mentioned in this thread (from myself included). I guess the hype machine works.


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## AdamKmusic

Tina Guo vol 2, it’s so dull & lifeless compared to the first one...


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## Mike Fox

Out of everything I've purchased, i truly regret buying N the most. The amount of hype for it is unparalleled. What a let down!


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## easyrider

Mike Fox said:


> Out of everything I've purchased, i truly regret buying N the most. The amount of hype for it is unparalleled. What a let down!



N?


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## Fever Phoenix

I didn't buy N. Got it for free, so no complaint from my side 🤷‍♂️


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## Gary Williamson

AUDDICT Virtuosic Violin. Didn't pay full price(I think it's on sale perpetually now) it's not awe-full, just not very inspiring like the JB Essentials.


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## Dex

NekujaK said:


> - Drums of the Deep 1 & 2



Care to expand on this one a bit?


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## NekujaK

Dex said:


> Care to expand on this one a bit?


There's nothing technically wrong with the Drums of the Deep libraries - I just find they don't contribute anything special or inspiring compared to other excellent percussion libraries that I have. I also really don't like the UI of DotD2.

Basically, they were an unnecessary purchase for me, and hence the regret. YMMV.


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## easyrider

Fever Phoenix said:


> I didn't buy N. Got it for free, so no complaint from my side 🤷‍♂️



N?


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## RogiervG

All and none.. depends on my mood etc etc...


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## Montisquirrel

easyrider said:


> I was wondering what you guys and gals have bought in the past and now regret...I would like to avoid these pitfalls if possible or is it a case of the journey has begun....just walk the road....



Could be very wrong to listen to all these posts and maybe you will miss something what could be great for you but doesnt work for somebody else.


----------



## Michel Simons

I bought the upgrade to N Pro, because people kept going on about how all the extra mic positions really added to the sound. I watched all the walkthroughs, but those were literally about walking with fellow imposters. The grandmother of all letdowns.


----------



## sDg

I definitely regret purchasing Spitfire's Devine Harpsichord library. Shockingly inept for solo work. Fine really low down in the mix as part of an ensemble I suppose. Issues stem from the way they have sampled the instrument with multiple round-robin attacks in a single file (recorded that way?), cross-fading to sustain and cross-fading to release. No key-off noises if notes held long enough. A general sense of "pumping" on certain attacks which sounds really odd compared to every other harpsichord library I own. Check out OT Berlin Harpsichords and Sonus Paradisi's Ruckers & Mietke for this particular aspect done correctly.


----------



## AndyP

easyrider said:


> N?


Now don't tell me you don't know the fabulous N library?


----------



## easyrider

AndyP said:


> Now don't tell me you don't know the fabulous N library?



I'm a noob to all this...


----------



## AndyP

easyrider said:


> I'm a noob to all this...


It's not bad, it's like putting snow chains on for the first time. You try, fail, try again, fail again, and eventually you get the hang of it.






N


n




vi-control.net


----------



## easyrider

AndyP said:


> It's not bad, it's like putting snow chains on for the first time. You try, fail, try again, fail again, and eventually you get the hang of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> N
> 
> 
> n
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


----------



## MaxOctane

Michel Simons said:


> I bought the upgrade to N Pro, because people kept going on about how all the extra mic positions really added to the sound. I watched all the walkthroughs, but those were literally about walking with fellow imposters. The grandmother of all letdowns.



We all expected a big announcement from the N team at NAMM, but they apparently got "stuck in Vegas" and never made it to Anaheim. So we'll have to wait a bit longer for the rumored "N Professional Core+" upgrade.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

MaxOctane said:


> We all expected a big announcement from the N team at NAMM, but they apparently got "stuck in Vegas" and never made it to Anaheim. So we'll have to wait a bit longer for the rumored "N Professional Core+" upgrade.



I am good with legacy N. The only thing that bothers me is their dowNloader.


----------



## givemenoughrope

None or at least none come to mind since I listen to every demo and walkthrough a dozen times. I do regret spending countless hours trying to get libraries (and just raw samples revamped in Kontakt) trying to do things they just cannot do.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

givemenoughrope said:


> None or at least none come to mind since I listen to every demo and walkthrough a dozen times. I do regret spending countless hours trying to get libraries (and just raw samples revamped in Kontakt) trying to do things they just cannot do.


yeah, good point! The time spent figuring out if we want/need/buy libraries..


----------



## Thundercat

Upgrade to the N Expansion pack for full blown, N your face audio Nirvana.


----------



## élitiparti

I regret buying:

*EW Stormdrum 3*didn't realise there were no round robins*8Dio Intimate Studio Woodwinds*sounds bad, annoying because Intimate Studio Strings sounds great!*8Dio Century Harps*chords are great but single notes are bad*Heaviocity Ensemble Woods*sounds bad, annoying because Ensemble Metals sounds great!


----------



## easyrider

I‘ve just downloaded N this has led me to disassemble my studio and go and contemplate my existence and surrender to the void.


----------



## Thundercat

easyrider said:


> I‘ve just downloaded N this has led me to disassemble my studio and go and contemplate my existence and surrender to the void.


N tends to make one question one's sanity, that's for sure...


----------



## Technostica

easyrider said:


> I‘ve just downloaded N this has led me to disassemble my studio and go and contemplate my existence and surrender to the void.


Or did you just dream all that?


----------



## jbuhler

Mike Fox said:


> Out of everything I've purchased, i truly regret buying N the most. The amount of hype for it is unparalleled. What a let down!


Still waiting for your full video review of N.


----------



## Mike Fox

jbuhler said:


> Still waiting for your full video review of N.


Oh, it's coming!


----------



## Fever Phoenix

omg..

Albion

.. N eo 😱


----------



## Loïc D

A long time ago, in a far away galaxy not far from Paris, I bought Peter Siedlaczek (typo?) Advanced Orchestra Akai S1000 collection of 5 CD-ROM and swear I never used them.
I still have them, should some vintage fetichist ask for them.


----------



## nolotrippen

LowweeK said:


> A long time ago, in a far away galaxy not far from Paris, I bought Peter Siedlaczek (typo?) Advanced Orchestra Akai S1000 collection of 5 CD-ROM and swear I never used them.
> I still have them, should some vintage fetichist ask for them.


There's some useful instruments on there. Of course, you'll have to convert them to whatever you're using (Kontakt?).


----------



## nolotrippen

mikefrommontreal said:


> Lots of little sub $100 programs, but of the bigger ones I'd say:
> 
> Spitfire Studio Woodwinds Core
> Spitfire Bernard Herrmann Composer Toolkit
> Spitfire Albion (original).
> 
> I've heard Spitfire makes good products. I just haven't purchased one yet.
> 
> I'd also add Cinematic Studio solo strings (_Love_ Cinematic stuff, but wish I had skipped this one).


What didn't you like about the Bernard Herrmann?


----------



## nolotrippen

Akarin said:


> Prague Solo Strings. But at least, they made me laugh when I tried using them. A true masterclass in awful programming.


Dang. Really? Was really considering that. Can you elaborate (I could use a laugh, too).


----------



## Dex

NekujaK said:


> There's nothing technically wrong with the Drums of the Deep libraries - I just find they don't contribute anything special or inspiring compared to other excellent percussion libraries that I have. I also really don't like the UI of DotD2.
> 
> Basically, they were an unnecessary purchase for me, and hence the regret. YMMV.



Thanks. What are you using that you like just as much if not better?


----------



## dpasdernick

easyrider said:


> What dont you like about them?



The 8DIO libraries I have, especially, Apocalyptic Guitars, seem like they started out as a good idea but were under developed and the demos are about as deep as they go. Apocalyptic Guitars is even free now which makes me dislike it even more. 

The Spitfire stuff is, relatively, expensive and I could have used the money better elsewhere. I own BHT, Albion One and British Drama Toolkit. The original albion had horrendous tuning issues with the Brass and the support from Spitfire left a bad taste in my mouth. The upgrade to Albion One is much better and I am getting some useage out of it but would rather have my money back. I thought I would more out of the British Drama Toolkit but it is difficult to play to the 3 velocities. I was hoping it was going to be more passionate Jane Austen British Drama and less "oh, I'm afraid I burned the toast" British drama. 

Your mileage may vary.


----------



## NekujaK

Dex said:


> Thanks. What are you using that you like just as much if not better?


Some of my favorite percussion libraries are:
- Taiko Creator
- PercX
- Action Strikes
- Cue Builders
- Epic Cinematic Drums & Sound Design
- Barrage

I like the sound of Hans Zimmer percussion, too. But I don't have that one yet.


----------



## lumcas

Fever Phoenix said:


> I didn't buy N. Got it for free, so no complaint from my side 🤷‍♂️



You'll soon realize that you haven't got N for free... ultimately, N will get you (for free).


----------



## jeremyr

Cinematic Studio Solo Strings for me. I thought it would be a good upgrade over LASS first chairs, but it isn't.


----------



## Monkey Man

Spitfire's winning so far...


----------



## Robert_G

Monkey Man said:


> Spitfire's winning so far...



Im not suprised.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Bollen said:


> Bought it... Regret it...


What's been your experience with 8dio Century Series?


----------



## Alfeus Aditya

Land of Missing Parts said:


> What's been your experience with 8dio Century Series?


I'm also curious.. I don't like most of 8dio products (based on YouTube reviews and music samples) but I quite like Century Series


----------



## Fever Phoenix

I have Century Brass and love it, just downloaded the update, but did only check out some of the polyphonic legatos.

I love the sound and playability of Century Brass.


----------



## pawelmorytko

jeremyr said:


> Cinematic Studio Solo Strings for me. I thought it would be a good upgrade over LASS first chairs, but it isn't.


I just got this yesterday, and I don't regret it, but I get what people mean... it's not quite the same quality as CSS. It's a bit thin, slightly out of tune sometimes, and very strong on the vibrato


----------



## Mike Fox

easyrider said:


> N?








N


n




vi-control.net


----------



## Michael Stibor

nolotrippen said:


> What didn't you like about the Bernard Herrmann?



I knew what I was getting into when I bought it. I clearly understood that it was a niche product with a very particular sound. However I find that in most cases, if you don't completely tailor your composing to the program, it is very un-flexible. Ans as always with Spitfire, the quality of the legatos is questionable.

It's not all bad. Out of the products I mentioned, it was the one that still has a lot of potential, and still gets used from time to time. But overall, at that price, money could've been better spent, elsewhere.


----------



## mcovarrubiasi

SA BDT for me. I think many people has mentioned it because the hype on the forums was out of this world. They sound good but they are very niche. The 3 dynamics thing is hard to master and who has the time. Can we resell it?

The other thing I regret is the SA solo violin performance patch. I dont find it very playable and the sound is too wet.

I am on the fencr with heavyocity Novo. I've found some uses but they have a very charactfull sound and not many articulations. I haven't dwell enough in the sound design aspect, which is a bit convoluted.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

For BDT, the individual articulation patches are worth digging into if you're not getting on well with the intended usage. Treating them as textured longs and shaping them with expression automation (or popping open the Kontakt editor and adjusting the ADSR curve) makes them pretty useful IMO. Building a soft string quartet out of them to play a bed of chords with yields some really pretty results in the right context, and is a different sound from what you'd get with basic longs/legatos.


----------



## Rtomproductions

LA Scoring Strings. What a mess. I can't think of a single library more poorly recorded than LASS.

"You have to work with it to get it to sound good." Or you could just buy a better strings library.

When you have to put out 4-5 minutes of music every day, "you have to work with it" doesn't cut it.


----------



## BezO

LowweeK said:


> A long time ago, in a far away galaxy not far from Paris, I bought Peter Siedlaczek (typo?) Advanced Orchestra Akai S1000 collection of 5 CD-ROM and swear I never used them.
> I still have them, should some vintage fetichist ask for them.


 My 1st experience with "VIs" were S1000/5000 multi-samples; orchestral, jazz/pop brass and rare instruments, but long after I should've been using such things. I can't remember the developers though. I was on a 2010 G4 that struggled with BFD drums as my only real VI, so no way I could've used anything more.

I had them loaded in an Akai Z4 and used them quite often, and was happy. My alternatives for "acoustic" instruments at the time were romplers. I actually bothered to put them on my MPC Live when I got it less than 2 years ago, but never used them in there, at least not yet. Never know though. I'm certain that rare instruments collection has something I don't own better versions of.


----------



## merlinhimself

Cinematic Motion Guitars by Samplelogic
Such a disappointment...


----------



## merlinhimself

élitiparti said:


> I regret buying:
> 
> *EW Stormdrum 3*didn't realise there were no round robins*8Dio Intimate Studio Woodwinds*sounds bad, annoying because Intimate Studio Strings sounds great!*8Dio Century Harps*chords are great but single notes are bad*Heaviocity Ensemble Woods*sounds bad, annoying because Ensemble Metals sounds great!



I feel you on the Ensemble Woods, I bought all 4 when they were on sale. The Metals are the best, I use them all the time, the Ensemble Drums are good for their playable stuff and some loops, The Ethnic are great but very specific, can only really use them time to time, and the woods I hardly ever use.


----------



## Bollen

Land of Missing Parts said:


> What's been your experience with 8dio Century Series?


Same as with every other 8dio library I have bought (and regretted it). You have to write for the library itself, it's very limited and it can only do a few things. Lack of articulations is another biggie... I suppose I'm just spoiled by VSL. Ended up completing my dimension string collection and I'm much happier... Also cost me about the same with a combination of the offers they were running and clever use of vouchers.


----------



## Michael Stibor

pawelmorytko said:


> I just got this yesterday, and I don't regret it, but I get what people mean... it's not quite the same quality as CSS. It's a bit thin, slightly out of tune sometimes, and very strong on the vibrato


What makes me slightly not regret this purchase is that the ensemble patch is great at imitating a smaller, more 'chamber' type sound. I use it often.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Rtomproductions said:


> LA Scoring Strings. What a mess. I can't think of a single library more poorly recorded than LASS.
> 
> "You have to work with it to get it to sound good." Or you could just buy a better strings library.
> 
> When you have to put out 4-5 minutes of music every day, "you have to work with it" doesn't cut it.


Agreed. It was the big thing when it came out. Now, I don't even have it installed.


----------



## Bollen

mikefrommontreal said:


> Agreed. It was the big thing when it came out. Now, I don't even have it installed.


You should sell it then...


----------



## Michael Stibor

Bollen said:


> You should sell it then...


I didn't know that I could!

EDIT: I can't. Oh well


----------



## Rtomproductions

mikefrommontreal said:


> Agreed. It was the big thing when it came out. Now, I don't even have it installed.



It was, but it also came out with Hollywood Strings, which I think is without question the superior library in almost every way. I was using HS until CSS came out, and while CSS is better, HS is still a competitive library.


----------



## dzilizzi

Just about everything I've bought for at least a moment. For example, I got the Symphobias when they had that bundle deal on NI. All the walkthroughs sound great. I can't do much of anything with it and can't figure out when I would ever use it. 

But a year later, I've started to find some uses and I'm really liking it. Now hopefully, I will soon feel that way about Omnisphere. Because right now it feels a little useless.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

For myself, nothing I’ve purchased I’ve regretted buying as I’m too poor, and make too little money to make rash buying decisions.

I’ve passed up on too many great sales! 😢

What I have regretted though, is advising a Latin Percussion client a few years back to buy NI Cuba, which he absolutely loathes! Never again!

I‘m grateful for what I have purchased, and make do with libraries I’ve been able to acquire through giveaways, and kind members on this forum.


----------



## Lassi Tani

All of them. Now trying my best to pay those credit bills.


----------



## Gingerbread

A cursory estimate on the overlap between this thread and the "Best Library You Ever Bought" thread is about 35%.


----------



## kitekrazy

Leslie Fuller said:


> For myself, nothing I’ve purchased I’ve regretted buying as I’m too poor, and make too little money to make rash buying decisions.
> 
> I*’ve passed up on too many great sales! 😢*
> 
> What I have regretted though, is advising a Latin Percussion client a few years back to buy NI Cuba, which he absolutely loathes! Never again!
> 
> *I‘m grateful for what I have purchased,* and make do with libraries I’ve been able to acquire through giveaways, and kind members on this forum.



A lot of wisdom here. Don't lose it. I found it possible to fill up three 2TB drives with stuff. I'm reluctant to go after free stuff. I stopped my subscription to CM for the free stuff which I usually have something better.


----------



## kitekrazy

I think it's real easy to make impulse buys because we get that short sense of instant gratification instead of waiting a few days for a box to show up. When it comes to other samples I no longer buy Zero-G or Loopmasters loops.


----------



## nolotrippen

Leslie Fuller said:


> For myself, nothing I’ve purchased I’ve regretted buying as I’m too poor, and make too little money to make rash buying decisions.
> 
> I’ve passed up on too many great sales! 😢
> 
> What I have regretted though, is advising a Latin Percussion client a few years back to buy NI Cuba, which he absolutely loathes! Never again!
> 
> I‘m grateful for what I have purchased, and make do with libraries I’ve been able to acquire through giveaways, and kind members on this forum.


Could have been worse. Could have been E-mu's Carnival


----------



## Bollen

mikefrommontreal said:


> I didn't know that I could!
> 
> EDIT: I can't. Oh well



😭

You could always emailed them, sometimes they make exceptions on an individual case-by-case...


----------



## jeremyr

pawelmorytko said:


> I just got this yesterday, and I don't regret it, but I get what people mean... it's not quite the same quality as CSS. It's a bit thin, slightly out of tune sometimes, and very strong on the vibrato


It's very possible I just haven't invested enough time into figuring it out. I think I was spoiled by the Joshua Bell violin and CSB in terms of instant playability. Also, it seems extremely quiet. It's like half as loud as the Joshua Bell violin unless I'm missing something fundamental.


----------



## InLight-Tone

dzilizzi said:


> Just about everything I've bought for at least a moment. For example, I got the Symphobias when they had that bundle deal on NI. All the walkthroughs sound great. I can't do much of anything with it and can't figure out when I would ever use it.
> 
> But a year later, I've started to find some uses and I'm really liking it. Now hopefully, I will soon feel that way about Omnisphere. Because right now it feels a little useless.


If you feel Omnisphere is useless you're in big trouble...


----------



## Patrick de Caumette

HZ Piano


----------



## AEF

I have to add a new one right to the top of the list.

JXL brass. player is beyond atrocious, and the samples themselves are truly poor. I only bought the bones a3 and bass trombones a3, which were supposedly the strongest part of the library. I legit think BBCSO has better brass than this. Kicking myself for this right now.


----------



## unclecheeks

InLight-Tone said:


> If you feel Omnisphere is useless you're in big trouble...



I dunno, I kinda see why OP might be unsure. I have Omnisphere and while I don’t regret the purchase, I feel like I’m only using (or even have really heard) only 10% of it. The sounds are great (organic stuff and pads, not so much the over the top EDM stuff) but the UI just never clicked for me. Lots of power but buried too deep to really take advantage of, imo. And don’t even get me started on the 2x8 pixel buttons to turn off modules on the front page, don’t know what the UI Designer was smoking...


----------



## dzilizzi

kitekrazy said:


> I think it's real easy to make impulse buys because we get that short sense of instant gratification instead of waiting a few days for a box to show up. When it comes to other samples I no longer buy Zero-G or Loopmasters loops.


I'm with you on this. Especially the loop libraries. I have thousands of loops and I end up never using them because I have VI's that just do it better.


----------



## NickDorito

Hip hop creator


----------



## dzilizzi

InLight-Tone said:


> If you feel Omnisphere is useless you're in big trouble...


I really don't like synths sounds. And I don't have a lot of time to muck about with settings. It becomes noise way too quickly. I think what I was really hoping it would be is like Unify, which I should try out. I can use real instrument VI's (guitars, strings, marimba, etc) then have fun.


----------



## axb312

AEF said:


> I have to add a new one right to the top of the list.
> 
> JXL brass. player is beyond atrocious, and the samples themselves are truly poor. I only bought the bones a3 and bass trombones a3, which were supposedly the strongest part of the library. I legit think BBCSO has better brass than this. Kicking myself for this right now.



Wha? Why? I did get a strong synthy feel about some examples I've heard of JXL Brass but most people on here seem to love it....


----------



## AEF

axb312 said:


> Wha? Why? I did get a strong synthy feel about some examples I've heard of JXL Brass but most people on here seem to love it....



even with the fff layer off, its buzzy/synthy. doesnt even sound like teldex either and the stereo imaging is bizarre. im using the basic close tree and AB mics too. also the dynamic transitions arent smooth, and the shorts despite showing five dynamic layers feel like they have maybe half that.


----------



## Supremo

AEF said:


> I have to add a new one right to the top of the list.
> 
> JXL brass. player is beyond atrocious, and the samples themselves are truly poor. I only bought the bones a3 and bass trombones a3, which were supposedly the strongest part of the library. I legit think BBCSO has better brass than this. Kicking myself for this right now.


Same here, except that I bought the entire library. Can't make any use of the library because of multiple issues with the Sine player and I really hate the sound of trumpets there. Sound very synthy to me.


----------



## John R Wilson

AEF said:


> I have to add a new one right to the top of the list.
> 
> JXL brass. player is beyond atrocious, and the samples themselves are truly poor. I only bought the bones a3 and bass trombones a3, which were supposedly the strongest part of the library. I legit think BBCSO has better brass than this. Kicking myself for this right now.




Yeah I got the feeling that it could be pretty rubbish. I felt that many of the demos sounded synthy and I didnt particularly like the sound of it.


----------



## EwigWanderer

When I downloaded N and was about to play the very first note the download manager turned in to uploader and then started to upload N back. They only have one copy available or I just wasn’t worth it?


----------



## Leslie Fuller

Re the comments on Omnisphere, if I had the money I think It would be something I’d buy and use without regret! I tried out a client’s version 1 years ago, and it definitely made an impression
on me.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

dzilizzi said:


> I really don't like synths sounds. And I don't have a lot of time to muck about with settings. It becomes noise way too quickly. I think what I was really hoping it would be is like Unify, which I should try out. I can use real instrument VI's (guitars, strings, marimba, etc) then have fun.



Jeez, you need to send some more time in Omnisphere, it's much more than just synth sounds.


----------



## nolotrippen

UVI's Digital Synsations


----------



## dzilizzi

Wolfie2112 said:


> Jeez, you need to send some more time in Omnisphere, it's much more than just synth sounds.


I know. I just start looking for sounds and get frustrated, open up Analog Strings or Analog Brass and Winds or NOVO and find something that works right away. 

It's a time thing. And a type of music thing. Eventually, i will spend some time with it and figure out how to do stuff with it. My biggest problem is most of the music in the videos on how to use it is so annoying to me, I can only watch for brief periods.


----------



## Bollen

nolotrippen said:


> UVI's Digital Synsations


Oh yeah! And Ircam solo strings... What a bunch of overpriced crap!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Not that much actually. I could do without the "mixed orchestra" libraries like Albion etc. It's just a dumb concept.

Also some of the more esoteric and "expressive" stuff that does things you can't do with traditional sample libraries yadda yadda, like Time Macro and all that. Thes kinds of libraries mostly sound corny and I stuggle to find ways to actually write music with them.

There's stuff that wasn't expensive to begin with, or I got cheap, so it's not that much of a regret, but still. British Drama Toolkit, some 8Dio libs, a bunch of plug-ins ... they're all the same, it's really a doofus tax.


----------



## Mike Fox

dzilizzi said:


> Just about everything I've bought for at least a moment. For example, I got the Symphobias when they had that bundle deal on NI. All the walkthroughs sound great. I can't do much of anything with it and can't figure out when I would ever use it.
> 
> But a year later, I've started to find some uses and I'm really liking it. Now hopefully, I will soon feel that way about Omnisphere. Because right now it feels a little useless.


Complete opposite here. Omnisphere, as well as the Symphobias have been the easiest libraries to work and compose with. 

Just goes to show how different people's preferences and workflow can be.


----------



## nolotrippen

"doofus tax"

coffee spit!


----------



## InLight-Tone

dzilizzi said:


> I know. I just start looking for sounds and get frustrated, open up Analog Strings or Analog Brass and Winds or NOVO and find something that works right away.
> 
> It's a time thing. And a type of music thing. Eventually, i will spend some time with it and figure out how to do stuff with it. My biggest problem is most of the music in the videos on how to use it is so annoying to me, I can only watch for brief periods.


It IS a big labyrinth of presets to navigate for sure, but it covers most everything. I personally like to start sketching in Omnisphere...


----------



## Polkasound

As much as I love Red Room Audio for their exemplary customer service, their Traveler Series fiddles unfortunately hold the honor of being my most-regretted purchase. The well-crafted demos reeled me in, but of course, they don't reveal what the libraries _can't_ do. The instruments have a nice sound, and I'm confident others are enjoying them, but I could tell within the first minute of playing them that I may have just tossed $180 out the window. Even after batch-editing all the samples and customizing new nki files for improved sound and functionality, I still wasn't able to make the libraries usable for my needs, and deleted them from my hard drive.

I really wish RRA allowed license transfers. Since I bought the libraries one year ago, one of my cats racked up another $6,000 in veterinary bills.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

nolotrippen said:


> UVI's Digital Synsations


Seeing your post, I just realised that I actually got this for free (for some reason), but have never downloaded it. Is it really that bad?


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

EW Voices of Soul. The sound is actually remarkable. But as soon as I started playing it I understood why they made their demo the way they did; the samples are very limited in what they can perform.


----------



## nolotrippen

Leslie Fuller said:


> Seeing your post, I just realised that I actually got this for free (for some reason), but have never downloaded it. Is it really that bad?


I play through it on occasion, but just to remind myself why I don't use it. Heck, give it a listen if you own it (for free, it might make a smidge of sense).


----------



## dzilizzi

InLight-Tone said:


> It IS a big labyrinth of presets to navigate for sure, but it covers most everything. I personally like to start sketching in Omnisphere...


And this is why I bought it. Everyone seems to like it. I've been feeling a little GAS'd-out (shocker!) so maybe I will have time to play more with it.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

nolotrippen said:


> I play through it on occasion, but just to remind myself why I don't use it. Heck, give it a listen if you own it (for free, it might make a smidge of sense).


Thanks! I just checked my UVI account, and even though it was free (an Avid giveaway), as it was a 10gb+ download, I think I put it off for another time.  Maybe I will try it out.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Polkasound said:


> As much as I love Red Room Audio for their exemplary customer service, their Traveler Series fiddles unfortunately hold the honor of being my most-regretted purchase. The well-crafted demos reeled me in, but of course, they don't reveal what the libraries _can't_ do. The instruments have a nice sound, and I'm confident others are enjoying them, but I could tell within the first minute of playing them that I may have just tossed $180 out the window. Even after batch-editing all the samples and customizing new nki files for improved sound and functionality, I still wasn't able to make the libraries usable for my needs, and deleted them from my hard drive.
> 
> I really wish RRA allowed license transfers. Since I bought the libraries one year ago, one of my cats racked up another $6,000 in veterinary bills.



That’s a pity! I was really contemplating these :(


----------



## Polkasound

ALittleNightMusic said:


> That’s a pity! I was really contemplating these :(



Please don't let my opinion sway you away from a sale. I am extraordinarily particular about the flexibility of the libraries I buy, particularly exposed solo instruments. The RRA fiddles offer unrivaled tone and articulations, and that may be exactly what someone is looking for, but I need more than samples to be able to sculpt a fiddle performance.

For my Country Christmas EP, I used Audio Modeling's SWAM Violin. It doesn't have the authentic tone nor desired articulations as the RRA Traveler fiddles, but because it's modeled, it's a hundred times more pliable. A virtual fiddle, in my opinion, really needs to be pliable down to the individual note level.


----------



## Michel Simons

dzilizzi said:


> I've been feeling a little GAS'd-out (shocker!)



I know that feeling.


----------



## Alex Fraser

dzilizzi said:


> And this is why I bought it. Everyone seems to like it. I've been feeling a little GAS'd-out (shocker!) so maybe I will have time to play more with it.


Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere? I find Logics own Alchemy fills the role of "endless preset mine" in my setup..

As for regrets - I was a little bummed out by one of the NI expansions I brought recently. Stuff I had already. But it was peanuts, so.. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## jbuhler

Alex Fraser said:


> Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere? I find Logics own Alchemy fills the role of "endless preset mine" in my setup..
> 
> As for regrets - I was a little bummed out by one of the NI expansions I brought recently. Stuff I had already. But it was peanuts, so.. 🤷‍♂️


I thought I was the only one on VIC who didn’t own Omnisphere!


----------



## easyrider

My procrastination has lead me to another poll...maybe I should write some music instead...






Do you own Omnisphere? Do you use it?


Do you own Omnisphere? Do you use it?




vi-control.net


----------



## dsblais

While Omnisphere has a vast collection of sounds, I don’t think anyone who isn’t looking for synth sounds really has a need for it. In particular, it’s not going to get a person far at all if they want to make orchestral music. I have it and like it, but it is, dare I say it, overrated for non-EDM uses.


----------



## John R Wilson

I've used omnisphere in the past and it has great sounds and it is a brilliant synth but I dont own it. I figured that I would have enough synths and presets in NI Komplete to cover most synth needs.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

Alex Fraser said:


> Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere? I find Logics own Alchemy fills the role of "endless preset mine" in my setup..
> 
> As for regrets - I was a little bummed out by one of the NI expansions I brought recently. Stuff I had already. But it was peanuts, so.. 🤷‍♂️


No Alex, I don’t have Omnisphere either!  I would like it, having used a client’s version 1, but have never been able to afford it.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Alex Fraser said:


> Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere?


What is Omnisphere? I have enough string libraries.


----------



## wst3

only a couple, and only partially...

Both Komplete Ultimate 12 and the Arturia Collection 6 came with a ton of stuff I will probably never use. But the cost to purchase the individual stuff I do use would have been more - so I guess it's ok.

And you didn't ask about plugins, but plugin bundles are the same deal. I have Waves Gold, there are probably about a dozen plugins I use. Again it was all about saving money.

Someone mentioned Funk Guitarist - it's fun, and I've learned a great deal about funk guitar, but I have not yet gotten my head around using it. Haven't removed it, but it is a tough one to use.

And then there are the ensemble bundles. I absolutely love the entire Symphobia series, but when I started out I was so disappointed - I just could not make them useful. I kept trying. I kept failing. Then, almost in desperation I suppose, I picked up Swing More! and I finally started to understand. Now I use all of them, as well as Metropolis Ark 1, and a couple Albions regularly. Sometimes just to sketch out an idea, sometimes as part of the track.

I think a big part of the problem with the Albions, the Symphobias, and the Metropolix Arks is that there is so much "stuff" there that you don't focus on one thing. At least for me that meant never getting the hang of anything. Until I did.

I probably would not recommend them as a starter kit, but they do have their uses.

Best advise I received was that if I thought a library was worth purchasing I owed it to myself to figure it out. That happened after I picked up Glory Days - the demos are brilliant, my use was far from brilliant. After being scolded for being lazy I kept at it and now I use it - it has a specific use, but it is glorious (pun intended) when played to its strengths. I suspect the same is true of a lot of libraries. Especially specialized libraries.

So no, I don't truly regret any of them, I do wish some were available at a reasonable price without buying the entire bundle, and I do wish I were a little more patient sometimes, but they all provide something I find useful.


----------



## Michel Simons

jbuhler said:


> I thought I was the only one on VIC who didn’t own Omnisphere!



Surely I am the only one who really doesn't own it.


----------



## Bollen

Alex Fraser said:


> Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere? I find Logics own Alchemy fills the role of "endless preset mine" in my setup..
> 
> As for regrets - I was a little bummed out by one of the NI expansions I brought recently. Stuff I had already. But it was peanuts, so.. 🤷‍♂️


Same here, but I have the original Alchemy (pre Apple). Has never failed to provide me with that perfect sound!


----------



## Leslie Fuller

I had the original (pre-Apple) Alchemy too! Unfortunately, it is on an old hard drive from a PC which died. Hopefully I can retrieve it one day.


----------



## Loïc D

Alex Fraser said:


> Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere? I find Logics own Alchemy fills the role of "endless preset mine" in my setup..
> 
> As for regrets - I was a little bummed out by one of the NI expansions I brought recently. Stuff I had already. But it was peanuts, so.. 🤷‍♂️


Nope, you’re not alone my friend.
I like Alchemy a lot too. I always manage to produce the sound I’m looking for (same with my good old VirusB).


----------



## CT

Alex Fraser said:


> Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere? I find Logics own Alchemy fills the role of "endless preset mine" in my setup..



I don't have Omnisphere either, in large part because after a while with Alchemy's endless possibilities, I decided to just delete its library and force myself to make my own weird sounds. I'm tempted to re-install every now and then, though.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Bottomless pit of sounds aside, I also use Alchemy for quick one-shot sample manipulation. I have a "go to" preset ready for sample import. Spectral sample playback is god level.
It's hard to overstate the value of Alchemy as a bundle-in-DAW synth. I still remember my jaw hitting the floor when it was released...as a free update.


----------



## CT

Logic has extraordinary content.


----------



## wst3

Bollen said:


> Same here, but I have the original Alchemy (pre Apple). Has never failed to provide me with that perfect sound!


I finally purchased Omni because I have the pre-Apple Alchemy. One of these days it will stop working, and I will need an alternative.

And Omni is more than up to the task, although familiarity leads me back to Alchemy quite often<G>!


----------



## Bollen

wst3 said:


> I finally purchased Omni because I have the pre-Apple Alchemy. One of these days it will stop working, and I will need an alternative.
> 
> And Omni is more than up to the task, although familiarity leads me back to Alchemy quite often<G>!


Don't know why it should... If you saved the installer that is... It's 64bit so it's pretty future proof.


----------



## kitekrazy

Alex Fraser said:


> *Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere?* I find Logics own Alchemy fills the role of "endless preset mine" in my setup..
> 
> As for regrets - I was a little bummed out by one of the NI expansions I brought recently. Stuff I had already. But it was peanuts, so.. 🤷‍♂️



Don't have it either despite beng fond of the developer. My days are done forking out large amounts for software.


----------



## kitekrazy

dzilizzi said:


> And this is why I bought it. Everyone seems to like it. I*'ve been feeling a little GAS'd-out* (shocker!) so maybe I will have time to play more with it.



It will pass.


----------



## kitekrazy

Bollen said:


> Don't know why it should... If you saved the installer that is...* It's 64bit so it's pretty future proof.*



Microsoft and DAW developers say, "Oh really? We'll see about that!"

I had to reinstall mine because I decided to remove 32 bit plugins and the 64 bit version needed some of those files.


----------



## BezO

dzilizzi said:


> ...open up Analog Strings or Analog Brass and Winds...


I need to revisit these, and Substance. I stopped short of listing them here because there are some cool sounds to be had. But I have yet to find a use for them.

I'm not a great sound designer, but can usually tweak my way to exactly what I want starting with a preset. For some reason I tend to make the Output presets worse, usually while trying to make something sound more organic.

Cool VIs though. Maybe I'll check out some tutorial vids.


----------



## reddognoyz

I'd say a solid 75% of my purchased turn put to be an audition and put a way for a rainy day. It's good to have lots of options thoughg and I consider it a triumph if I get a couple of every day patches out of a whole collection.


----------



## BezO

Alex Fraser said:


> Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere?


Hello VI. My name is BezO, and I also do not own Omnisphere.



Alex Fraser said:


> ...I find Logics own Alchemy fills the role of "endless preset mine" in my setup...


Do you know if it's possible to use Alchemy in other DAWs?

Maybe because I have so many synths, I never once even opened Alchemy. But I continue to come across great praise for it. I've since transitioned to Studio One, so it may be too late.


----------



## Alex Fraser

BezO said:


> Hello VI. My name is BezO, and I also do not own Omnisphere.


Hello, BezO. Come join us over here in the corner. There was food, but it's mostly just cheese sandwiches now as @miket ate all the chips n dips.



BezO said:


> Do you know if it's possible to use Alchemy in other DAWs?


The old version yes, but Apple's version 2 is limited to Logic only.


----------



## Symfoniq

Generally, the samples I most regret buying are the ones that had the best marketing.

I'm finding that my favorite libraries over the past few years are coming from smaller developers who have fire in their bellies, are trying to push the envelope, and are investing all their time and money into _that_ instead of marketing.


----------



## easyrider

Symfoniq said:


> Generally, the samples I most regret buying are the ones that had the best marketing.
> 
> I'm finding that my favorite libraries over the past few years are coming from smaller developers who have fire in their bellies, are trying to push the envelope, and are investing all their time and money into _that_ instead of marketing.




example?


----------



## BezO

Alex Fraser said:


> Hello, BezO. Come join us over here in the corner. There was food, but it's mostly just cheese sandwiches now as @miket ate all the chips n dips.







Alex Fraser said:


> The old version yes, but Apple's version 2 is limited to Logic only.


I really like Studio One's feature set, but I've been having problems with my Komplete Kontrol disconnecting. If I can't figure it out soon, I may be back and relegate S1 to mastering duties.

Either way, I may end up using Logic for my orchestral & cinematic stuff. I've only been dabbling & experimenting with the soundscapes until now. With those 2 templates likely being 2-3 times the size of my other templates, that delayed loading feature may come in handy.


----------



## Mikro93

Alex Fraser said:


> Hello, BezO. Come join us over here in the corner. There was food, but it's mostly just cheese sandwiches now as @miket ate all the chips n dips.



Hey, I've got olives and houmous, can I join?


----------



## Vonk

I've brought BEER! 

So having bribed my way in - I nominate Apollo cinematic guitars. Sounded like a good idea at the time, but never made into any finished track....


----------



## Nico2020

*JXL Brass*.

I bought it two weeks ago but the SINE player is so unstable it hangs before I can hear any sound. So, after spending 700+ euros on it, I've never been able to hear a sound from it. I'm using a standard setup with Logic Pro X and samples on an external hard disk.

I contacted Orchestral Tool support, which told me it's a known problem in their SINE player, without being able to tell me when a working product would be available. After waiting for a week or two without any progress in being able to produce a single sound with their unusable product I ended up uninstalling it and asked for a refund but they refused to refund me. Apparently their terms and conditions don't allow refunds no matter what. They could sell you a virtual instrument that is unable to produce any sound (as in my case) and still they won't refund you!! I honestly don't know how that can be legal in a European country, and I struggle to see how any company that cares about their reputation could behave that way.

In any case after paying 700+ euros they told me I'm supposed to reformat my external hard disk (and reinstall all my sample libraries) in a different way for their player to work (my external hard disk works with all products from all competitors and with all their previous products!!).

I've never felt so let down by a company. I would strongly advise anyone not to buy anything from Orchestral Tools - particularly not something that uses their unusable SINE player.


----------



## VivianaSings

Nico2020 said:


> *JXL Brass*.
> 
> I bought it two weeks ago but the SINE player is so unstable it hangs before I can hear any sound. So, after spending 700+ euros on it, I've never been able to hear a sound from it. I'm using a standard setup with Logic Pro X and samples on an external hard disk.
> 
> I contacted Orchestral Tool support, which told me it's a known problem in their SINE player, without being able to tell me when a working product would be available. After waiting for a week or two without any progress in being able to produce a single sound with their unusable product I ended up uninstalling it and asked for a refund but they refused to refund me. Apparently their terms and conditions don't allow refunds no matter what. They could sell you a virtual instrument that is unable to produce any sound (as in my case) and still they won't refund you!! I honestly don't know how that can be legal in a European country, and I struggle to see how any company that cares about their reputation could behave that way.
> 
> In any case after paying 700+ euros they told me I'm supposed to reformat my external hard disk (and reinstall all my sample libraries) in a different way for their player to work (my external hard disk works with all products from all competitors and with all their previous products!!).
> 
> I've never felt so let down by a company. I would strongly advise anyone not to buy anything from Orchestral Tools - particularly not something that uses their unusable SINE player.



How long ago was it? Have you contacted your credit card company to initiate a chargeback?

EDIT: Just saw it was two weeks ago. You're well within the time limit to initiate a chargeback. Don't even tell OT, just do it and let them deal with the fines and possibility of the bank dropping their merchant account.


----------



## awaey

EW The Dark Side + spotlight solo string ...many many years ago i bought I never used...


----------



## Bollen

Nico2020 said:


> *JXL Brass*.
> 
> I bought it two weeks ago but the SINE player is so unstable it hangs before I can hear any sound. So, after spending 700+ euros on it, I've never been able to hear a sound from it. I'm using a standard setup with Logic Pro X and samples on an external hard disk.
> 
> I contacted Orchestral Tool support, which told me it's a known problem in their SINE player, without being able to tell me when a working product would be available. After waiting for a week or two without any progress in being able to produce a single sound with their unusable product I ended up uninstalling it and asked for a refund but they refused to refund me. Apparently their terms and conditions don't allow refunds no matter what. They could sell you a virtual instrument that is unable to produce any sound (as in my case) and still they won't refund you!! I honestly don't know how that can be legal in a European country, and I struggle to see how any company that cares about their reputation could behave that way.
> 
> In any case after paying 700+ euros they told me I'm supposed to reformat my external hard disk (and reinstall all my sample libraries) in a different way for their player to work (my external hard disk works with all products from all competitors and with all their previous products!!).
> 
> I've never felt so let down by a company. I would strongly advise anyone not to buy anything from Orchestral Tools - particularly not something that uses their unusable SINE player.





VivianaSings said:


> How long ago was it? Have you contacted your credit card company to initiate a chargeback?
> 
> EDIT: Just saw it was two weeks ago. You're well within the time limit to initiate a chargeback. Don't even tell OT, just do it and let them deal with the fines and possibility of the bank dropping their merchant account.


And also, in the EU you have 14 days to return absolutely anything no questions asked, that's the law...


----------



## easyrider

Bollen said:


> And also, in the EU you have 14 days to return absolutely anything no questions asked, that's the law...




I'm not sure that 100% the case on software purchases...









Can I get a refund?


If you have ordered one of our products in error but have yet to download it, please get in touch at spitfireaudio.com/support and we can refund the order as long as it is less than 14 days since y...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com


----------



## MartinH.

Bollen said:


> And also, in the EU you have 14 days to return absolutely anything no questions asked, that's the law...



I am not a lawyer, but some exceptions apply.


----------



## Bollen

MartinH. said:


> I am not a lawyer, but some exceptions apply.


Yeah me neither, but if the shop/manufacturer is also in the EU then I'm pretty sure you can...


----------



## Bollen

easyrider said:


> I'm not sure that 100% the case on software purchases...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can I get a refund?
> 
> 
> If you have ordered one of our products in error but have yet to download it, please get in touch at spitfireaudio.com/support and we can refund the order as long as it is less than 14 days since y...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spitfireaudio.zendesk.com


This is what I found on the net:

The UK Consumer Rights Act of 2015 imposes a timeframe for making a return and requesting a refund of 30 days. Digital content is limited to 14 days for the same request.


----------



## Alex Fraser

BezO said:


> Either way, I may end up using Logic for my orchestral & cinematic stuff. I've only been dabbling & experimenting with the soundscapes until now. With those 2 templates likely being 2-3 times the size of my other templates, that delayed loading feature may come in handy.


The dynamic plugin loading feature is a game changer and definitely worth revisiting Logic for. 👍


----------



## Alex Fraser

Mikro93 said:


> Hey, I've got olives and houmous, can I join?


Of course! Our “Not Omnisphere Users” shindig is still going. Smart dress optional, although for obvious reasons, wearing purple is frowned upon. 😉


----------



## MartinH.

Bollen said:


> Yeah me neither, but if the shop/manufacturer is also in the EU then I'm pretty sure you can...



I recently checked the German versions of the applicable laws, which I believe but I am not sure to be an implementation of the EU guidelines for the law. There were exceptions for software saying that it has to still be "sealed" to be returnable and iirc there were also exceptions for usage licenses. And with sample libraries you are usually buying usage licenses and not primarily the sample content. They might be in the kind of grey area that a court has to settle because so many of these laws are open to interpretation or made without specific-enough usecases in mind, by people who don't understand half the implications of the laws they're voting on.

I think I've also seen popup messages when buying digital goods that say "if you want to download this right now instead of in 14 days, you are giving up your right to cancel your order for up to 14 days past date of purchase.

Similar things might be in the terms and conditions that most people don't read, but have to accept to buy something.


----------



## Bollen

MartinH. said:


> I recently checked the German versions of the applicable laws, which I believe but I am not sure to be an implementation of the EU guidelines for the law. There were exceptions for software saying that it has to still be "sealed" to be returnable and iirc there were also exceptions for usage licenses. And with sample libraries you are usually buying usage licenses and not primarily the sample content. They might be in the kind of grey area that a court has to settle because so many of these laws are open to interpretation or made without specific-enough usecases in mind, by people who don't understand half the implications of the laws they're voting on.
> 
> I think I've also seen popup messages when buying digital goods that say "if you want to download this right now instead of in 14 days, you are giving up your right to cancel your order for up to 14 days past date of purchase.
> 
> Similar things might be in the terms and conditions that most people don't read, but have to accept to buy something.


That is true, however you do have to agree to waive your right, I have not come across that yet. In fact many accept returns (e.g. VSL). It's worth hassling them since they are likely to just give the refund than escalating something that might become too public and bad PR...


----------



## Consona

NekujaK said:


> There's nothing technically wrong with the Drums of the Deep libraries - I just find they don't contribute anything special or inspiring compared to other excellent percussion libraries that I have. I also really don't like the UI of DotD2.
> 
> Basically, they were an unnecessary purchase for me, and hence the regret. YMMV.


MM does V.  @Dex

I have things like Damage, Action Strikes, Apocalypse Ensemble, Medusa, but every time I want that big unprocessed Lord of The Rings/Revenge of the Sith sound, I use DotD. Those ensembles in DotD 2 have so nice low soft dynamics. I put some juicy AudioToys distortion and PuigTec EQ on them to make them sound fuller and the sound is golden.


----------



## Ben H

The thread title is incorrect...

It should really say "Which samples have you regretted licensing," since you don't actually purchase the samples themselves, but license the rights to use the samples in your musical compositions.


----------



## Eptesicus

Nico2020 said:


> *JXL Brass*.
> 
> I bought it two weeks ago but the SINE player is so unstable it hangs before I can hear any sound. So, after spending 700+ euros on it, I've never been able to hear a sound from it. I'm using a standard setup with Logic Pro X and samples on an external hard disk.
> 
> I contacted Orchestral Tool support, which told me it's a known problem in their SINE player, without being able to tell me when a working product would be available. After waiting for a week or two without any progress in being able to produce a single sound with their unusable product I ended up uninstalling it and asked for a refund but they refused to refund me. Apparently their terms and conditions don't allow refunds no matter what. They could sell you a virtual instrument that is unable to produce any sound (as in my case) and still they won't refund you!! I honestly don't know how that can be legal in a European country, and I struggle to see how any company that cares about their reputation could behave that way.
> 
> In any case after paying 700+ euros they told me I'm supposed to reformat my external hard disk (and reinstall all my sample libraries) in a different way for their player to work (my external hard disk works with all products from all competitors and with all their previous products!!).
> 
> I've never felt so let down by a company. I would strongly advise anyone not to buy anything from Orchestral Tools - particularly not something that uses their unusable SINE player.




This is slightly concerning. SINE player is virtually unusable for me also (freezes all the time), and if they can't fix it and they don't allow refunds, i'm left with a very big and expensive library that does not work....


----------



## Robert_G

Eptesicus said:


> This is slightly concerning. SINE player is virtually unusable for me also (freezes all the time), and if they can't fix it and they don't allow refunds, i'm left with a very big and expensive library that does not work....



I'm kind of shocked just reading this. You'd expect more from a company like OT.


----------



## Eptesicus

Robert_G said:


> I'm kind of shocked just reading this. You'd expect more from a company like OT.



I did think they would have it fixed by now to be honest. I have had it nearly two months and haven't been able to use it properly :(


----------



## Robert_G

Eptesicus said:


> I did think they would have it fixed by now to be honest. I have had it nearly two months and haven't been able to use it properly :(



It makes no sense. If you bought a new car 2 months ago and it never worked properly...and if they didn't take care of you properly...the dealership would be shut down. It's mind boggling how a company can turn their backs on stuff like this and get away with it.


----------



## Eptesicus

Robert_G said:


> It makes no sense. If you bought a new car 2 months ago and it never worked properly...and if they didn't take care of you properly...the dealership would be shut down. It's mind boggling how a company can turn their backs on stuff like this and get away with it.



Indeed. I mean i have been disappointed in libraries before (ie Synchron Strings) but i can kind of understand them not refunding in that case because the product did actually work (and i could sell it if i wish).

I can't sell this, it doesnt work, so at the moment i have spent an awful lot of money for nothing. It is a shame, because it is a good library.


----------



## Technostica

Sorry to hear about all your woes with SINE.
After this and the issues with Spitfire's player I am even more wary of jumping on board new software platforms than ever.
I feel the same way about new PC platform releases as they can have issues also; especially from AMD probably because they are smaller and also less people test against them.
The Spitfire player was released quite a while before BBCSO so that is more of a shock.


----------



## Eptesicus

Technostica said:


> I feel the same way about new PC platform releases as they can have issues also; especially from AMD probably because they are smaller and also less people test against them.
> The Spitfire player was released quite a while before BBCSO so that is more of a shock.




Indeed, but a PC game costs a fraction of what this cost. This is supposed to be a professional tool.


----------



## Technostica

Eptesicus said:


> Indeed, but a PC game costs a fraction of what this cost. This is supposed to be a professional tool.


I was thinking in terms of BIOS, Drivers, RAM support; games weren't mentioned.


----------



## Eptesicus

Technostica said:


> I was thinking in terms of BIOS, Drivers, RAM support; games weren't mentioned.



Oh i see. Sorry.


----------



## Robert_G

Eptesicus said:


> Indeed. I mean i have been disappointed in libraries before (ie Synchron Strings) but i can kind of understand them not refunding in that case because the product did actually work (and i could sell it if i wish).
> 
> I can't sell this, it doesnt work, so at the moment i have spent an awful lot of money for nothing. It is a shame, because it is a good library.



I try to stay with Kontakt when I can, but it's not always possible. Best Service Engine has never given me problems, and as annoying and tedious as 'Play 6' is, at least for the most part it is stable. 
The SINE player and Spitfire Player have red flags all over them and I have no desire to touch them anytime soon. It's strange though...even VSL Synchron player is stable. I'm not sure why Spitfire and OT can't get their crap together.


----------



## Eptesicus

Robert_G said:


> I try to stay with Kontakt when I can, but it's not always possible. Best Service Engine has never given me problems, and as annoying and tedious as 'Play 6' is, at least for the most part it is stable.
> The SINE player and Spitfire Player have red flags all over them and I have no desire to touch them anytime soon. It's strange though...even VSL Synchron player is stable. I'm not sure why Spitfire and OT can't get their crap together.



Yeh the Synchron player is very stable. Never had a crash using that as far as i can remember.

If you are going to ditch Kontakt and have your own player...you need to be damn sure that it is stable, because stability is THE number one most important thing above all in my opinion.

I just can't be dealing with something that is prone to crash and that i have to step on egg shells with. I want to compose, not babysit flakey software.


----------



## jbuhler

Writing software is hard, and Sine is an especially ambitious piece of software done by a fairly small firm. OT has also historically been slow about updating its libraries so the deliberate pace of fixes to Sine is not surprising and if anything OT has been quite a lot more responsive than usual to offering fixes.


----------



## Eptesicus

jbuhler said:


> Writing software is hard, and Sine is an especially ambitious piece of software done by a fairly small firm. OT has also historically been slow about updating its libraries so the deliberate pace of fixes to Sine is not surprising and if anything OT has been quite a lot more responsive than usual to offering fixes.



yes, but this isnt just a annoying bug or a bum note etc. This would appear to be a pretty widespread stability issue.


----------



## gussunkri

Robert_G said:


> I try to stay with Kontakt when I can, but it's not always possible. Best Service Engine has never given me problems, and as annoying and tedious as 'Play 6' is, at least for the most part it is stable.
> The SINE player and Spitfire Player have red flags all over them and I have no desire to touch them anytime soon. It's strange though...even VSL Synchron player is stable. I'm not sure why Spitfire and OT can't get their crap together.


Are people still having problems with the Spitfire plug-in or have all the issues been resolved? I haven't noticed people complaning about it lately. For what it's worth I have never experienced a single hickup and I use it on both PC and Mac.


----------



## Mike Fox

I don't know the details, and don't have SINE installed, but if i was a developer and i just had a customer spend nearly 1k on a library they couldn't even use, i wouldn't be able to sleep at night.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Mike Fox said:


> I don't know the details, and don't have SINE installed, but if i was a developer and i just had a customer spend nearly 1k on a library they couldn't even use, i wouldn't be able to sleep at night.


Maybe they're not?

They're obviously working on fixing this. The future of their catalog depends on it. 
For those experiencing issues, this feels like a very long time to come up with a fix. But there's a forum's worth of people that will tell you it took PLAY a _heck _of a lot longer.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Jdiggity1 said:


> Maybe they're not?
> 
> They're obviously working on fixing this. The future of their catalog depends on it.
> For those experiencing issues, this feels like a very long time to come up with a fix. But there's a forum's worth of people that will tell you it took PLAY a _heck _of a lot longer.


Yeah the idea that they are just laughing their way to the bank is pretty hyperbolic. Junkie's schedule is going to be very tight, so if they have a window they have a window - and if they want to make sure the JXL line is on the new player - it might simply be that they had to rush the first to ensure that the rest of the lineup would be on sine. 

And I'm kinda glad they did - because the zones on a 690gb brass library eat resources like they're going out of style, mics loaded or not.


----------



## Mike Fox

Jdiggity1 said:


> Maybe they're not?
> 
> They're obviously working on fixing this. The future of their catalog depends on it.
> For those experiencing issues, this feels like a very long time to come up with a fix. But there's a forum's worth of people that will tell you it took PLAY a _heck _of a lot longer.


Ok. Maybe they're not sleeping at night. Maybe they're working their asses off to get the SINE player up and running properly (which is probably the reality of it).

I still wouldn't hesitate to offer refunds, or some other way to make up for it. I sure as hell would feel a lot better if i was losing sleep.

But hey, that's just me.


----------



## jononotbono

ProfoundSilence said:


> the zones on a 690gb brass library eat resources like they're going out of style, mics loaded or not.



So what? Perhaps you should stop being such a tight fisted slag and buy more RAM?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jononotbono said:


> So what? Perhaps you should stop being such a tight fisted slag and buy more RAM?


if i could just buy another 128gb and duct tape it on my machine I'd have done it. 

it's cpu/loadtime/everything. One day i'll do a comparison using BWW legacy and the BWW legacy instuments that are in BWW revive loaded, both using the Tree mic only.


----------



## jononotbono

ProfoundSilence said:


> if i could just buy another 128gb and duct tape it on my machine I'd have done it.



No. You misunderstand. You will need another 6 dual CPU servers with 1.5tb of RAM in each. At least.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jononotbono said:


> No. You misunderstand. You will need another 6 dual CPU servers with 1.5tb of RAM in each. At least.


I mean, at this point it's a race between ram and sine player being updated+berlin ported. With berlin stuff running in sine off single mics I'm sure I can run it all on 128gb without an issue lol.


----------



## berto

i might be wrong but 60/70% of the regretted libs are by the biggest companies: Spitfire, 8Dio, OT. And they are the same companies people seems to be drooling on every time they release a new thing. Apart from that i did not see any small dev lib that people complains (justly) about. Might be the overly priced instruments or the hype that leads to disappointment? don't know ... just a thought. Maybe this should make people drool less and companies hype less. but what do i know? i can't even afford their stuff. on the other hand i am happy about all i bought.. so far...


----------



## pianistje

berto said:


> i might be wrong but 60/70% of the regretted libs are by the biggest companies: Spitfire, 8Dio, OT. And they are the same companies people seems to be drooling on every time they release a new thing. Apart from that i did not see any small dev lib that people complains (justly) about. Might be the overly priced instruments or the hype that leads to disappointment? don't know ... just a thought. Maybe this should make people drool less and companies hype less. but what do i know? i can't even afford their stuff. on the other hand i am happy about all i bought.. so far...


I think you hit a nerve somewhere, because i have seen this many times. As a concert pianotuner and technician i meet persons every other week who simply can’t form a personal opinion about a certain piano sound without relying on input from industry authorities , what they have ‘read’ somewhere about product ‘x’ or even a clever salesman overrules their own idea of a pleasant sound on the fly. Contrary to orchestral libraries (sounds good to very good to me most of the time,.... not an expert about those libraries) i have a very strong opinion on what sounds good when it comes to a piano library.
i also bought a few because of the raving online comments. Sometimes i fully supported such notion and sometimes i couldn’t believe what people were excited about.

I think the Hans Zimmer piano was presented as the ultimate piano library, boy was i glad i didn’t like the demos to begin with.
Two purchases i regretted most were the Ravenscroft and Hammersmith.
The former was clinical cold and the latter as if the soundboard had a midlife crisis.


----------



## GNP

I bought the Olympus Choir library. Used it only once on one episode of a TV show - never got the chance to use it again. Close to $1000 gone, just like that.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

GNP said:


> I bought the Olympus Choir library. Used it only once on one episode of a TV show - never got the chance to use it again. Close to $1000 gone, just like that.


How long ago was that?


----------



## GNP

ProfoundSilence said:


> How long ago was that?



about 5 years ago i guess.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

berto said:


> i might be wrong but 60/70% of the regretted libs are by the biggest companies: Spitfire, 8Dio, OT.


If Spitfire and Orchestral Tools sell more libraries, you would expect there to be more regrets. Also, more happy users, more lukewarm reviews...more everything. More data points, essentially.

Of course, this is a thread that only shows the regrets, so factor all of that in.

Also keep in mind that negative opinions are an over-represented group, since they have more motivation to go to an internet forum and post, while users with more tempered views might not feel the need to speak up.


----------



## Audun Jemtland

EWQLSO 

Too much keyswitching, didn't like the sound


----------



## Geoff Grace

Land of Missing Parts said:


> If Spitfire and Orchestral Tools sell more libraries, you would expect there to be more regrets. Also, more happy users, more lukewarm reviews...more everything. More data points, essentially.
> 
> Of course, this is a thread that only shows the regrets, so factor all of that in.
> 
> Also keep in mind that negative opinions are an over-represented group, since they have more motivation to go to an internet forum and post, while users with more tempered views might not feel the need to speak up.


^^^ This

Let's say hypothetically that the big companies have the same satisfaction to dissatisfaction ratio as the small companies, but they sell ten times more product. That would mean they would get ten times the complaints.

That said, I do give some weight to complaints about the stability of newer players, such as SINE and the Spitfire host, as I've learned from experience not to be an early adopter. This is the same reason I haven't upgraded to Catalina yet.

There are too many variables in the variety of computers owned by the public at large for any developer to know in advance of all the problems that will arise with new software. If you are an early adopter, you have my thanks for helping developers iron out the bugs.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## jonnelson1988

- NI Symphony Series
- Chris Hines Orchestral Winds & Brass


----------



## woodslanding

nolotrippen said:


> As of yesterday, Alicia Keys (dear artists, shut up)


Can you elaborate? I ALMOST bought it recently, at the recommendation of a producer I work for... but since I couldn't apply more than one voucher to the price, I just bought some synth sounds that ended up being basically free.

I have the Komplete pianos, plus Sampletekk Black and Galaxy Vintage D and the Yamaha that comes with Keyscape (which I don't generally care for, but has found a place on a few recordings)

Is there a piano that you might recommend in place of Alicia's Keys, if you were to try to guess why my producer colleague likes it??


----------



## nolotrippen

woodslanding said:


> Is there a piano that you might recommend in place of Alicia's Keys, if you were to try to guess why my producer colleague likes it??



I don't buy (or regret buying) "artists" who take my money then turn around and spit in my philosophical face, whether it's politics, religion, or anything. I don't frequent places with bad, rude, service and that includes artists. I find it absurd. That said. I don't find AK much better or worth more than the upright that comes with Kontakt (let the flames begin).


----------



## BezO

woodslanding said:


> ... but since I couldn't apply more than one voucher to the price, I just bought some synth sounds that ended up being basically free.


From NI? Where do they sell synth presets?

My holiday voucher has since expired, but I always struggle to use their vouchers with their restrictions. I tried to find an Expansion since it would only be $25 out of pocket, but couldn't find anything I thought I'd use. Some presets would've been perfect.


----------



## dzilizzi

BezO said:


> From NI? Where do they sell synth presets?
> 
> My holiday voucher has since expired, but I always struggle to use their vouchers with their restrictions. I tried to find an Expansion since it would only be $25 out of pocket, but couldn't find anything I thought I'd use. Some presets would've been perfect.


Probably Maschine sets. That's about all they are useful for.


----------



## woodslanding

pianistje said:


> I think you hit a nerve somewhere, because i have seen this many times. As a concert pianotuner and technician i meet persons every other week who simply can’t form a personal opinion about a certain piano sound without relying on input from industry authorities , what they have ‘read’ somewhere about product ‘x’ or even a clever salesman overrules their own idea of a pleasant sound on the fly. Contrary to orchestral libraries (sounds good to very good to me most of the time,.... not an expert about those libraries) i have a very strong opinion on what sounds good when it comes to a piano library.
> i also bought a few because of the raving online comments. Sometimes i fully supported such notion and sometimes i couldn’t believe what people were excited about.
> 
> I think the Hans Zimmer piano was presented as the ultimate piano library, boy was i glad i didn’t like the demos to begin with.
> Two purchases i regretted most were the Ravenscroft and Hammersmith.
> The former was clinical cold and the latter as if the soundboard had a midlife crisis.


Okay, you've piqued my curiosity.... I want to know which libraries you DO like now! Just from hearing demos I agree with your sentiments about the Ravenscroft and Hammersmith pianos. At least the sound didn't inspire me to take a gamble. As a pianist, I find playability the most important, and often no velocity curve in the world will bring it... so that's kept my piano purchasing to a minimum, and I've had to go on the suggestions of others who own the libraries.

I will say that pianists are not particuarly trained to listen critically to pianos, and it does take a while to learn to learn tone. It really does not hurt to have a dozen virtual pianos on tap for many of my recording sessions! I'm getting to know the qualities of the pianos I have quite well, and am feeling more confident about assessing the tone of libraries from the demos. But I'm still curious what you like


----------



## woodslanding

BezO said:


> From NI? Where do they sell synth presets?
> 
> My holiday voucher has since expired, but I always struggle to use their vouchers with their restrictions. I tried to find an Expansion since it would only be $25 out of pocket, but couldn't find anything I thought I'd use. Some presets would've been perfect.


I found some massive presets for $29. Don't know that they are any good, but if there's a half dozen, that might be worth the $4.


----------



## woodslanding

nolotrippen said:


> I don't buy (or regret buying) "artists" who take my money then turn around and spit in my philosophical face, whether it's politics, religion, or anything. I don't frequent places with bad, rude, service and that includes artists. I find it absurd. That said. I don't find AK much better or worth more than the upright that comes with Kontakt (let the flames begin).



I'm sensing you are not talking about the sound here. I'll move on along.


----------



## dzilizzi

woodslanding said:


> Okay, you've piqued my curiosity.... I want to know which libraries you DO like now! Just from hearing demos I agree with your sentiments about the Ravenscroft and Hammersmith pianos. At least the sound didn't inspire me to take a gamble. As a pianist, I find playability the most important, and often no velocity curve in the world will bring it... so that's kept my piano purchasing to a minimum, and I've had to go on the suggestions of others who own the libraries.
> 
> I will say that pianists are not particuarly trained to listen critically to pianos, and it does take a while to learn to learn tone. It really does not hurt to have a dozen virtual pianos on tap for many of my recording sessions! I'm getting to know the qualities of the pianos I have quite well, and am feeling more confident about assessing the tone of libraries from the demos. But I'm still curious what you like


I like the Ravenscroft. I don't really find it cold. But I also usually throw PSP's Pianoverb on it and mix the mics. And? I am not a very good pianist. I just like the sound of pianos. From crappy out of tune honky tonk uprights to perfect sounding large grands. I think if you really play with all the pedal action, you will want something different from a piano than I might.


----------



## berto

Geoff Grace said:


> ^^^ This
> 
> Let's say hypothetically that the big companies have the same satisfaction to dissatisfaction ratio as the small companies, but they sell ten times more product. That would mean they would get ten times the complaints.



My post was actually referring to that ratio misconception even though the way i phrased maybe was not clear. 
It seems that the ratio is not the same. it seems to me that those big companies have promised (dared/invested) more and received a bigger ratio of regretting customers (*caused maybe in fact by the hyperbolic marketing that promised something that was not delivered - this is what i don't like about big companies' market strategies*), while the much smaller companies don't really have regretting customers (possibly they don't promise much more than the actual product's capabilities - *see for example Pendle's humble videos and great ideas!!!*). 
I understand that if i spent 800$ on a lib and then it's not amazing, i would be furious, but still i would write here in this thread if i spent $20 on something that i could not use because it was not really what i expected, maybe mislead by a lib teaser etc... . still not sure i'm clear enough...


----------



## dzilizzi

berto said:


> My post was actually referring to that ratio misconception even though the way i phrased maybe was not clear.
> It seems that the ratio is not the same. it seems to me that those big companies have promised (dared/invested) more and received a bigger ratio of regretting customers (*caused maybe in fact by the hyperbolic marketing that promised something that was not delivered - this is what i don't like about big companies' market strategies*), while the much smaller companies don't really have regretting customers (possibly they don't promise much more than the actual product's capabilities - *see for example Pendle's humble videos and great ideas!!!*).
> I understand that if i spent 800$ on a lib and then it's not amazing, i would be furious, but still i would write here in this thread if i spent $20 on something that i could not use because it was not really what i expected, maybe mislead by a lib teaser etc... . still not sure i'm clear enough...


I have to agree on this. I am much more regretful at paying $300+ for Omnisphere than I am paying $59 for Unify which seems to crash when I load a few things. Just like I would have been really upset at buying BBCSO than the free LABS products, considering I can't get the Spitfire player to work on my machine. I'm a little disappointed, but not regretful. 

Though truthfully, I would probably spend more time trying to fix something that doesn't work if it weren't free. And I didn't already have the Kontakt versions of most of the free products.....


----------



## nolotrippen

woodslanding said:


> I'm sensing you are not talking about the sound here. I'll move on along.


If you read the last sentence, yes, I was specific about how I felt it compared to a library you might already have.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Opinions about the bigger developers are more polarized on this forum for reasons that I'd chalk up to tribalism and irrational human behavior, mostly. Just ignore it. Bigger devs have hits and misses, just like anyone does. I wouldn't read much more into it than that.


----------



## Geoff Grace

berto said:


> My post was actually referring to that ratio misconception even though the way i phrased maybe was not clear.
> It seems that the ratio is not the same. it seems to me that those big companies have promised (dared/invested) more and received a bigger ratio of regretting customers (*caused maybe in fact by the hyperbolic marketing that promised something that was not delivered - this is what i don't like about big companies' market strategies*), while the much smaller companies don't really have regretting customers (possibly they don't promise much more than the actual product's capabilities - *see for example Pendle's humble videos and great ideas!!!*).
> I understand that if i spent 800$ on a lib and then it's not amazing, i would be furious, but still i would write here in this thread if i spent $20 on something that i could not use because it was not really what i expected, maybe mislead by a lib teaser etc... . still not sure i'm clear enough...


My understanding of what you're saying is that the more hyperbole a company uses, the more likely a customer is going to be disappointed if it didn't live up to the hype. That makes sense to me.

In my experience, things rarely happen for one reason alone—especially when considering the experiences of multiple people. It could be that we're seeing more responses for the big companies in part because they sold more products and in part because their hype exceeded the reality. Some people are voicing dissatisfaction for yet another reason: the bugginess of the big companies' new players. I imagine there may be yet other reasons I haven't listed in this paragraph; but yes, I believe that what you're saying is part of the equation. Good point, *berto*.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

woodslanding said:


> I'm sensing you are not talking about the sound here. I'll move on along.





lmfao


----------



## BradHoyt

andreªs said:


> Spitfire HZ Piano. I still have a bad taste in my mouth...


They velocity curve control is awful. lol


----------



## BradHoyt

mcovarrubiasi said:


> SA BDT for me. I think many people has mentioned it because the hype on the forums was out of this world. They sound good but they are very niche. The 3 dynamics thing is hard to master and who has the time. Can we resell it?
> 
> The other thing I regret is the SA solo violin performance patch. I dont find it very playable and the sound is too wet.
> 
> I am on the fencr with heavyocity Novo. I've found some uses but they have a very charactfull sound and not many articulations. I haven't dwell enough in the sound design aspect, which is a bit convoluted.



The big difference with BHT compared to other libraries is that there's definitely a higher bar for keyboard proficiency to make it most useful.


----------



## BradHoyt

berto said:


> i might be wrong but 60/70% of the regretted libs are by the biggest companies: Spitfire, 8Dio, OT. And they are the same companies people seems to be drooling on every time they release a new thing. Apart from that i did not see any small dev lib that people complains (justly) about. Might be the overly priced instruments or the hype that leads to disappointment? don't know ... just a thought. Maybe this should make people drool less and companies hype less. but what do i know? i can't even afford their stuff. on the other hand i am happy about all i bought.. so far...


Yep. Price + better marketing skewing expectations sounds about right.


----------



## Zedcars

Quasar said:


> How can you try out string libraries with no strings attached?


I nearly blew all my money on a brass library.


----------



## Alex Niedt

I love Spitfire and own almost all of their stuff, but I wish I'd saved my money on British Drama Toolkit, Kepler Orchestra, BT Phobos, Sacconi Quartet, and Trailer Giant.

My biggest regrets are probably Chris Hein Solo Violin and Solo Cello. Feels like literal money down the drain, as I will probably never, ever use them.

EastWest Ra, Silk, and Stormdrum 3 aren't deeply sampled enough to make me want to use the PLAY engine. I will probably never buy another EastWest product, honestly.

I realized a couple years back that Komplete upgrades are a complete waste of money, for me, as I basically only use the Kontakt player and Alicia's Keys at this point.

Though I have lots of love for 8Dio, especially the choirs, I have made some regrettable sale purchases, but the thing I probably regret most is buying Liberis at full price before the superior Genesis came out. This was before the deep discounts and flash sales, but still...that's a mostly unused $598 sitting on my hard drive.


----------



## Mikro93

Alex Niedt said:


> My biggest regrets are probably Chris Hein Solo Violin and Solo Cello. Feels like literal money down the drain, as I will probably never, ever use them.


Well, at least, you can resell that one. To me. For no money, since it's lost anyway.


----------



## easyrider

Alex Niedt said:


> Though I have lots of love for 8Dio, especially the choirs, I have made some regrettable sale purchases, but the thing I probably regret most is buying Liberis at full price before the superior Genesis came out. This was before the deep discounts and flash sales, but still...that's a mostly unused $598 sitting on my hard drive.



I’m just getting into orchestration...Liberis is now $98 ....is 8Dio the Waves of the orchestral sample world?


----------



## Pablocrespo

I love stormdrum 3 sound, but it has lots cpu problems (something to do with pitch algorithmic processing), EW acknowledged this and then stop replying to my tickets. Talk about good customer service there.


----------



## sayanchik

Leslie Fuller said:


> Seeing your post, I just realised that I actually got this for free (for some reason), but have never downloaded it. Is it really that bad?



I got it for free as well, downloaded and installed it, played through presets for some time, then uninstalled. Didn't like:
1) size (can't remember exactly, but huge; like 30Gb)

2) sound (considering the size; I mean why download 30Gb to emulate DX7 when there are some good emulations which aren't sample-based)

3) necessary installation of some UVI service center app

4) UVI says that the library emulates three classic synths, but actual synth names are never mentioned (must be some copyright related restrictions, but for me as a customer this is irritating) 

5) I don't know how to get rid of this license which is currently shown in my iLok account.

I guess UVI offered this product for free to promote their flagship synth Falcon (Synsations package included some Falcon sounds as a demo), but I feel that for me it worked quite the opposite way – after spending time and attention on downloading, installing and uninstalling this bunch of crap my expectations about Falcon somewhat changed to worse and I decided not to purchase it (and I was really going to get it before trying out Synsations).


----------



## Robert_G

Alex Niedt said:


> but the thing I probably regret most is buying Liberis at full price before the superior Genesis came out. This was before the deep discounts and flash sales, but still...that's a mostly unused $598 sitting on my hard drive.



Ouch. I feel for you. That would be like having a raw scab on your testies and someone comes along pours itching powder on it.


----------



## Zedcars

Robert_G said:


> Ouch. I feel for you. That would be like having a raw scab on your testies and someone comes along pours itching powder on it.


That happened to me last weekend. Still itching now.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Alex Niedt said:


> wish I'd saved my money on British Drama Toolkit



Glad you said it! I bought "The Ton" bundle for $99, it included BDT, a grand piano (which is barely useable), and eDNA (not too bad). I was really after BDT, but quickly discovered it was a dud. To me, it's absolutely useless and uninspiring.


----------



## dzilizzi

Wolfie2112 said:


> Glad you said it! I bought "The Ton" bundle for $99, it included BDT, a grand piano (which is barely useable), and eDNA (not too bad). I was really after BDT, but quickly discovered it was a dud. To me, it's absolutely useless and uninspiring.


For some reason, a lot of Kontakt libraries have trouble getting velocity from my keyboard. So things like BDT are not fun to play around with. However, I decided to try just putting midi into my DAW, mess with the velocity manually, and it actually makes some interesting pads. It was one of my "pick 5 libraries" experiments. I'll probably use it again. And? I probably have other things that will give me similar sounds a lot easier.


----------



## jononotbono

dzilizzi said:


> For some reason, a lot of Kontakt libraries have trouble getting velocity from my keyboard.



What keyboard have you got?


----------



## dzilizzi

jononotbono said:


> What keyboard have you got?


A Launchkey. Both a 49 and a 61 key. And an 88 key M-Audio. They all have problems with certain libraries.


----------



## BradHoyt

Alex Niedt said:


> I love Spitfire and own almost all of their stuff, but I wish I'd saved my money on British Drama Toolkit, Kepler Orchestra, BT Phobos, Sacconi Quartet, and Trailer Giant.
> 
> My biggest regrets are probably Chris Hein Solo Violin and Solo Cello. Feels like literal money down the drain, as I will probably never, ever use them.
> 
> EastWest Ra, Silk, and Stormdrum 3 aren't deeply sampled enough to make me want to use the PLAY engine. I will probably never buy another EastWest product, honestly.
> 
> I realized a couple years back that Komplete upgrades are a complete waste of money, for me, as I basically only use the Kontakt player and Alicia's Keys at this point.
> 
> Though I have lots of love for 8Dio, especially the choirs, I have made some regrettable sale purchases, but the thing I probably regret most is buying Liberis at full price before the superior Genesis came out. This was before the deep discounts and flash sales, but still...that's a mostly unused $598 sitting on my hard drive.



Similar experience for me... bought 8Dio's Adagio Strings at full price back in the day when it first came out... in retrospect, a big loss, especially considering how I ended up using it and that they were all on sale not too long ago for a little of $100 I believe. lol


----------



## unclecheeks

dzilizzi said:


> A Launchkey. Both a 49 and a 61 key. And an 88 key M-Audio. They all have problems with certain libraries.



Sounds like those keyboards have some inconsistent velocity sensing. Maybe there’s a kontakt script that will allow you to set velocity from mod wheel position, to make it a little more predictable when using libs like BDT?


----------



## cug

kgdrum said:


> Broadway Lite 😩


I second that emotion and I got it on sale too. Ok some of the ensemble patches are useful for quick inspiration. But the solo instruments long notes are not usable for dynamics. Most of them jump from
mp to ff.


----------



## dzilizzi

unclecheeks said:


> Sounds like those keyboards have some inconsistent velocity sensing. Maybe there’s a kontakt script that will allow you to set velocity from mod wheel position, to make it a little more predictable when using libs like BDT?


I've tried fixing things. Doesn't really work. I can turn up the volume which helps until I switch to something else. And? Once the midi is in the DAW, it's not a problem.


----------



## MaxOctane

Zedcars said:


> That happened to me last weekend. Still itching now.



For the last time: I'm sorry, and it won't happen again.

(but really, you shouldn't leave your door unlocked at night like that)


----------



## lenny2403

nolotrippen said:


> As of yesterday, Alicia Keys (dear artists, shut up)



Same for me i bought it after i saw this video 



but it does not sound like that at all out of the box it's way to muffled and i hate the dynamics


----------



## PaulieDC

Robert_G said:


> Ouch. I feel for you. That would be like having a raw scab on your testies and someone comes along pours itching powder on it.


There's a thought.


----------



## PaulieDC

easyrider said:


> Having recently upgraded my studio space and wanting to learn more about orchestration and composition I Bought NI Komplete Ulitmate CE and a S61 on sale
> 
> I was wondering what you guys and gals have bought in the past and now regret...


S61 is a nice controller, good choice.

When I woke up and smelled the coffee in the MIDI Orchestration kitchen in 2016, my first exposure ad-wise was the NI Symphonic Series, full version. Wow, that sure looked like the end-all be-all. A composer friend tried to talk me out of it but I didn't listen. That's one where I want a do-over. I also would probably go for the most minimal Komplete version that got me the full Kontakt. I bought Ultimate 11 but I'm strictly Orchestral and I don't really have an ongoing need for the stuff used for Rock and Pop, BUT, it's nice to have if I need it one day. I did do a pop track for a friend's video project and the drums and bass were GREAT for that.

I did spend $445 on the VSL Steinway and was able to return it fortunately.

The place where I blew WAY too much money was 6-7 years ago when I was doing a ton of mixing before I ever touched MIDI. I started buying every Waves plugin known to man because I heard one demo here and one demo there that appeared to solve an audio issue I was having. UGH. Many many hundreds down the drain. I use probably the same 10-12 now and that's it.

On the other end, here's what I bought that you can't rip out of my hands:
Spitfire Chamber Strings Pro
Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds
Berlin Strings
Berlin Brass
Garritan CFX
Lexicon PCM Reverb Plugin
Did I mention Spitfire Chamber Strings Pro? Desert-Island Library!

And I still have a really tight grip on EastWest's Hollywood Orch, Choirs, StormDrum 3 and Spaces II. OK, Albion One, Berlin Inspire 1 & 2, and the Ravenscroft R275.

EWHO and StormDrum 3 do provide all the standard percussion I have at the moment


----------



## novaburst

avocado89 said:


> Purchasing a sample library shouldn't be like playing blackjack or rolling dice and praying to the sample gods to "hit the jackpot" - like come on this is our hard earned money,



I think there are to many utube reviews and forums reviews library demos to make mistakes like in your statement. 

Yes there are glitches bugs, bum notes but for the most part sample libraries offer far beyond and above than what we all need. 

If your always the first to pull the trigger I guess that's a different story. 

Tone, sound, playability I think also is a lot to do with preference so what you don't like ten other users will like,, what your dig is another will brush aside. 

Normally from reviews especially utube and demos there is always something that will tell us there is something I can use from that library. 

I do think developers face a big challenge to. day especially working with Windows 10 updates, and mac O S that is for ever changing and presenting new bugs. 

Yes it is our cash, it is also smart to wait for reviews, and demos, and use your ears and intuition, read up on it then make your mind up.

There is a cross road I guess when a developer offers a very low price for us to purchase before the library is completed, that decision is ours to make and I guess you can call this black jack, but no one is forcing us to play, we could wait for the completion of the library and wait for reviews and with that pay the full price for the library and many do wait for the completion and pay the full price. 

Yes some times developer get it wrong but I think for the most part they get it right and I think also there is just a ton of information on any given library for us to make unwanted purchases and that brings me to say I think for the most part we have our self to blame for not using the insite that is provided for us to use before any given purchase. So let's stop trashing developers and make good decisions, because the info is there. 

I would say a lot of these kind of threads come from not knowing how to use or not putting enough time in your art and so we tend just to blame our tools when in reality it comes down to lack of interest and laziness and not enough hard work and so you give up and start blaming others for your inconsistency,


----------



## CoffeeLover

this might look like a rant but i do like everything ive bought
i only regret them for what they can not do
so its a love hate relationship when that happens
but i end up embracing them after stubbornly trying to do the impossible
i learn what their strength are usually

i like to create live music and at home i use libraries to create and just to demo.
libraries have gotten better
and they will keep on evolving
when comparing to the old EWQLSO and
i got back into the library game about 3 years ago.
but i am nowhere near feeling convinced on using libraries as an end result "for my music"
and got about 4 tb of libraries.

honestly i regret not learning cello and violin
so im buying a cello this summer ,
im a bass player for 30 years and i already can play a bit of cello

somehow i use alot of cellos in my writings
and alot of the times i hit a wall with solo libraries
i can not do everything i want to do,
even simple things they still sound like machine gun effect to me
specially when only using solo strings and 
i want maybe 8 pieces of cellos or just basic violin viola cello and bass.

one example is that i cant seem to understand why on earth none of those libraries can provide a convincing beginner techniques like long slow tempo"Detache bowing" and bowing gets shorter and faster along with a rising tempo on the same string for a few bars. 
can you do this with your library? if so please share!
this is just hell for my to work with if i use solo strings. 
but when they work i do really enjoy them.
sometimes out of the box they have this strange room artifact or phase that sounds annoying.

okay so i am doing this project right now
made a piece and they want to keep the piece as it is
i think these people are completely mad that i am working with
to me this is a final demo or a scetch for the live players to use as a roadmap.
not only am i working libraries that provide limited playing 
but also i seem to be working with limited musicians.

drives me nuts sometimes 
but thankfully i dont do this for a full time job
but its fun! right! :D

Piece!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

PaulieDC said:


> That's one where I want a do-over.


I believe you can sell your NI Symphony Series license.


----------



## apollinaire

SA Kepler Orchestra. I loved the idea but never seem to use it on anything. It's so CPU intensive I usually give up and move on to another idea on whatever I'm working on.


----------



## PaulieDC

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I believe you can sell your NI Symphony Series license.


I looked into it because I did a whacky piecemeal upgrade to get there. I can't remember what it was that made me decide to skip it. Could have just been poor resale value, lol.


----------



## BlueGreenBoy

merlinhimself said:


> Cinematic Motion Guitars by Samplelogic
> Such a disappointment...



Can you elaborate?


----------



## NYC Composer

cug said:


> I second that emotion and I got it on sale too. Ok some of the ensemble patches are useful for quick inspiration. But the solo instruments long notes are not usable for dynamics. Most of them jump from
> mp to ff.


There’s one clarinet bend I love in Broadway Lites. I’ve never used any other part of it.


----------



## NYC Composer

Polkasound said:


> Please don't let my opinion sway you away from a sale. I am extraordinarily particular about the flexibility of the libraries I buy, particularly exposed solo instruments. The RRA fiddles offer unrivaled tone and articulations, and that may be exactly what someone is looking for, but I need more than samples to be able to sculpt a fiddle performance.
> 
> For my Country Christmas EP, I used Audio Modeling's SWAM Violin. It doesn't have the authentic tone nor desired articulations as the RRA Traveler fiddles, but because it's modeled, it's a hundred times more pliable. A virtual fiddle, in my opinion, really needs to be pliable down to the individual note level.


I’ll probably end up with the AM or SM violin to emulate fiddle. Up to now, it’s always been the Garritan Strad from the same developers. It’s a finicky beast.


----------



## nilblo

N.I. Symphonic Series - didn´t do my homework before buying these lib´s


----------



## Bluemount Score

nilblo said:


> N.I. Symphonic Series - didn´t do my homework before buying these lib´s


You bought it as part of Komplete or on it's own?


----------



## Iswhatitis

easyrider said:


> Having recently upgraded my studio space and wanting to learn more about orchestration and composition I Bought NI Komplete Ulitmate CE and a S61 on sale
> 
> Its certainly fun adding to my existing guitar, bass and drum kit recordings...and for what I paid I have zero regrets.
> 
> I also bought Spitire Chamber strings in the wish list sale mainly due to curiosity...but it’s fantastic and although I thought expensive even with sale price I have been playing with it a lot and don’t regret the outlay on top of my initial a Komplete spend.
> 
> I’m also finding orchestral composition very relaxing and therapeutic
> 
> I was wondering what you guys and gals have bought in the past and now regret...I would like to avoid these pitfalls if possible or is it a case of the journey has begun....just walk the road....
> 
> thanks for you input.
> 
> Peace and Love
> 
> easyrider


This for me has less to do with what I regret buying but the price I over paid for it.

I could have bought HOD for $250 less, I could have bought tons of PA plugins for probably $700 less, I could have bought Cinesamples CineSymphony for $200 less, I once could have bought a Kurzweil K2500 for $800 less, and I should have upgraded to the Waves Mercury bundle a while ago instead of overpaying for individual plugins.

If I could remember all the gear I have purchased in my lifetime and listed every item I overpaid for then this list would be ridiculous. 

Thankfully I don’t remember all the times dealers ripped me off. Not that I didn’t get good prices many times, I did, but you would be amazed how much cheaper gear can be had for all too often.


----------



## nilblo

Bluemount Score said:


> You bought it as part of Komplete or on it's own?


I bought Symph. Strings, Winds & Brass separately..


----------



## Bluemount Score

nilblo said:


> I bought Symph. Strings, Winds & Brass separately..


Okay, big oof


----------



## Jeast

Bollen said:


> Anything by 8dio...


This... and its a lot too. Fool I am


----------



## Thundercat

Unfortunately the value of everything drops over time, even after a year or two current software and libraries get cheaper. Wait long enough and the thousands you spent will be worth nothing.

so it’s easy to kick yourself for paying too much but the bottom line is are you getting value from the purchase?


----------



## merlinhimself

BlueGreenBoy said:


> Can you elaborate?



Literally 80% of the patches sounded the same, like you could tell it was a little different, but practically the same. I scrolled through so many and nothing stood out really. And sonically I just didnt like how it sounded, so you add that with everything sounding the same.


----------



## purple

Audiobro modern scoring brass. I wish I had bought sample modeling + altiverb or one of the berlin brass expansions instead. Scripting isn't awful, the instruments just don't sound good. Every time people voice their bad opinions of it, someone down-thread always says "well it's just not for people who don't want to put in the work", and still I haven't heard anybody else make any good demos since it released.

I remember not being very impressed by the demos but that's more because they were a very different "sound" to mine so I thought maybe I'll just massage the instruments differently and it will work well in my music. Boy was I wrong. I wouldn't be so bothered if I hadn't spent $600 on it, which was just an introductory price for an otherwise $800 library.

It still has a place, I like to blend the trumpets into other libraries, as they aren't so bad. Same for the horns. But if I were buying a singular brass package or recommending one to someone this would definitely not be it. And even as a second or third or sixth collection I would not recommend it.


----------



## Virtual Virgin

Rinascimento from Fluffy Audio.

The sample quality, mics, performance and scripting are sub-par.
If I really want a period instrument, I'll use it just to get that instrument identity, but I can't expect realistic performance from it.


----------



## purple

Virtual Virgin said:


> Rinascimento from Fluffy Audio.
> 
> The sample quality, mics, performance and scripting are sub-par.
> If I really want a period instrument, I'll use it just to get that instrument identity, but I can't expect realistic performance from it.


I was actually considering buying that one. I like the plucked strings in it and I think it would compliment my ERA II well. The winds, bowed strings, and brass seemed not anywhere near as good. I prefer the ERA II winds by far which is why I went with that first. Do you find this to be accurate? (Good plucked strings, everything else is meh)


----------



## labornvain

dzilizzi said:


> I really don't like synths sounds. And I don't have a lot of time to muck about with settings. It becomes noise way too quickly. I think what I was really hoping it would be is like Unify, which I should try out. I can use real instrument VI's (guitars, strings, marimba, etc) then have fun.


I like omnisphere, but honestly most of the default sounds are suitable for scoring an 80s porn film.

But I also have Keyscape, which is about the only thing I use it for. Keyscape is really good.


----------



## Fleer

I would have liked the ProductionVoices Grand to be Kontakt Player compatible.


----------



## dzilizzi

Fleer said:


> I would have liked the ProductionVoices Grand to be Kontakt Player compatible.


It isn't? PV usually builds 2 versions- Kontakt and SFZ. I always try to be careful to get the Kontakt version because I never remember to use my SFZ instruments.


----------



## Virtual Virgin

purple said:


> I was actually considering buying that one. I like the plucked strings in it and I think it would compliment my ERA II well. The winds, bowed strings, and brass seemed not anywhere near as good. I prefer the ERA II winds by far which is why I went with that first. Do you find this to be accurate? (Good plucked strings, everything else is meh)



All of the plucked strings sound like harps. No legatos. Completely unrealistic.


----------



## darcvision

embertone walker 1955 concert d lite, i just dont like that sound especially for sketching, i rather using intimate piano patch from GPO5....


----------



## Fleer

dzilizzi said:


> It isn't? PV usually builds 2 versions- Kontakt and SFZ. I always try to be careful to get the Kontakt version because I never remember to use my SFZ instruments.


Sadly it isn’t Kontakt Player, only Kontakt full. And indeed SFZ, but don’t much use that either. I read somewhere that PV was contemplating making them for Kontakt Player, but this didn’t pan out it seems.


----------



## dzilizzi

Fleer said:


> Sadly it isn’t Kontakt Player, only Kontakt full. And indeed SFZ, but don’t much use that either. I read somewhere that PV was contemplating making them for Kontakt Player, but this didn’t pan out it seems.


Ah, another reason to own full Kontakt.


----------



## Johnny

EW Goliath


----------



## Rossy

I'm new to buying library's so I bought nucleus lite today and just found out there is no legato in it?
I would rather have had less samples than only one or two articulations. Lesson learned.


----------



## Cinebient

Now, mainly all i am not allowed to sell/transfer my license. 
Not sure if i want or can buy anything but for me i will never ever buy something i could not resell (some iOS apps as exception since they are damn cheap).


----------



## shapeshifter00

stefandy31 said:


> embertone walker 1955 concert d lite, i just dont like that sound especially for sketching, i rather using intimate piano patch from GPO5....



Surprised by this, I got it at intro price which was very low and its my favorite piano after fluffy audio my piano. But everyone has their own taste.

My biggest regret is GPO5.


----------



## easyrider

shapeshifter00 said:


> Surprised by this, I got it at intro price which was very low and its my favorite piano after fluffy audio my piano. But everyone has their own taste.
> 
> My biggest regret is GPO5.



GPO5 ?


----------



## Uncle Ox

My greatest dissaponted library purchase is VIR2 Vital Series-Sticks !!
Lots of nice percussion samples but there are none presets, no pattern presets (only one as default) and no snapshots either, you had to program the 4 layers by hand. That is not so bad but voor $199,- I would expect some comfort.

I have Apollo and Aeris from VIR2 which are realy fine to work with.


----------



## darcvision

easyrider said:


> GPO5 ?


garritan personal orchestra 5. it has great piano, harp and organ, except woodwind and brass


----------



## Dr.Quest

Virtual Virgin said:


> Rinascimento from Fluffy Audio.
> 
> The sample quality, mics, performance and scripting are sub-par.
> If I really want a period instrument, I'll use it just to get that instrument identity, but I can't expect realistic performance from it.


I'm finding the Hurdy Gurdy is out of tune with itself. The melody strings are way out with the drones. It makes it so you need to use 2 instances tuned differently to get it to work.


----------



## Crowe

Aria London Strings. Solo as well. These are just really, really bad. NI Symphony Series is amazing compared to this. Considering these were the first orchestral libraries I bought, I learned a *lot* from this mistake.


----------



## dzilizzi

Shiirai said:


> Aria London Strings. Solo as well. These are just really, really bad. NI Symphony Series is amazing compared to this. Considering these were the first orchestral libraries I bought, I learned a *lot* from this mistake.


You know how LASS gets good reviews? Well VSTBuzz has LSS in their shop for a great price. But I have to keep reminding myself it isn't LASS, even though it is almost the same name. I guess the guy that made it just kind of dropped the ball after it was done and never fixed any of the issues. The choir too - though it gets mixed reviews.


----------



## pmcrockett

Shiirai said:


> Aria London Strings. Solo as well. These are just really, really bad. NI Symphony Series is amazing compared to this. Considering these were the first orchestral libraries I bought, I learned a *lot* from this mistake.


I have LSS too, and never really attempted to use it for anything. I came across it again as I was organizing samples last week and thought, "Surely it isn't a bad as people say it is." So I loaded it up in Kontakt, and ... yeah, it's as bad as people say it is.

I've done a little playing around with layering it behind Samplemodeling Strings, my idea being that SM Strings is too perfect and too present whereas LSS is too imperfect and too indistinct, and maybe they'll balance each other out. It seems like it might be viable, but I haven't tested it in depth.


----------



## Crowe

pmcrockett said:


> I have LSS too, and never really attempted to use it for anything. I came across it again as I was organizing samples last week and thought, "Surely it isn't a bad as people say it is." So I loaded it up in Kontakt, and ... yeah, it's as bad as people say it is.
> 
> I've done a little playing around with layering it behind Samplemodeling Strings, my idea being that SM Strings is too perfect and too present whereas LSS is too imperfect and too indistinct, and maybe they'll balance each other out. It seems like it might be viable, but I haven't tested it in depth.



It's kinda funny, in the last year I've rethread LS and LSS multiple times. The thought process goes something like this:

"Well, I've gained more experience, knowledge,tools and I have the licenses anyway. There *must* be a way to make *something* in these libraries work for me".

Joke's on me, of course. Without fail, the reverse happens as the differences between LSS and other tools become more obvious and I end up despising them more.


----------



## dzilizzi

Shiirai said:


> It's kinda funny, in the last year I've rethread LS and LSS multiple times. The thought process goes something like this:
> 
> "Well, I've gained more experience, knowledge,tools and I have the licenses anyway. There *must* be a way to make *something* in these libraries work for me".
> 
> Joke's on me, of course. Without fail, the reverse happens as the differences between LSS and other tools become more obvious and I end up despising them more.


How open are the samples? Can you use this as an exercise to fix samples to make them usable? I know there are a number of people here who have no problem going under the hood of Kontakt and making things better. Though I don't know, maybe they can't be fixed?


----------



## Crowe

dzilizzi said:


> How open are the samples? Can you use this as an exercise to fix samples to make them usable? I know there are a number of people here who have no problem going under the hood of Kontakt and making things better. Though I don't know, maybe they can't be fixed?



The samples are pretty open and recorded in wav. I'm considering using some as wavetables.

Thing is, with everything else I'm doing I really don't have the time to also become a Kontakt technician. If I were, I'd go into my Metropolis Ark I and II to fix the discrepancy in sample lengths there first. Much more worth it, probably XD


----------



## Jackdaw

I think I just suck, but I really regret buying Cinesamples bundle (it was insane 75% sale, but still paid over 600€). I like Cineperc and many may say that its worth the bundle's price and to a limit I may agree. Cinestrings are just horrible in my hands especially when talking about legato. Brass and Sonore are okay and Cineharp is praised by people, I just have no need for harp. I wish I could get my money back, I would use it for something much more useful (for me).

Secondly I regret both The Orchestra Complete and Nucleus, just because I have no use for them and I paid full price for both. Wish I could have my money back from them too. Within six months I spent almost 1500€ to stuff I just hate or I don't use. I hope I learned something from this. I made all these purchases shortly after I decided I wanted to start making music again after very very very long break. A decade. So it was beginner's error.


----------



## jbuhler

Jackdaw said:


> I think I just suck, but I really regret buying Cinesamples bundle (it was insane 75% sale, but still paid over 600€). I like Cineperc and many may say that its worth the bundle's price and to a limit I may agree. Cinestrings are just horrible in my hands especially when talking about legato. Brass and Sonore are okay and Cineharp is praised by people, I just have no need for harp. I wish I could get my money back, I would use it for something much more useful (for me).
> 
> Secondly I regret both The Orchestra Complete and Nucleus, just because I have no use for them and I paid full price for both. Wish I could have my money back from them too. Within six months I spent almost 1500€ to stuff I just hate or I don't use. I hope I learned something from this. I made all these purchases shortly after I decided I wanted to start making music again after very very very long break. A decade. So it was beginner's error.


I think everyone has stories something like this: buying VIs that are not at all bad for what they are but just not what you needed. Every year I make fewer of these mistakes (I still make them!). But also I sometimes find that those mistakes turn out to be useful additions to my collection after all.


----------



## nilblo

Native Instruments Symphonic Series. 
Not my kind of library. In my defence, it ws the first libraries I bought and I didn´t do my homework..


----------



## Scalms

Jackdaw said:


> I think I just suck, but I really regret buying Cinesamples bundle (it was insane 75% sale, but still paid over 600€). I like Cineperc and many may say that its worth the bundle's price and to a limit I may agree. Cinestrings are just horrible in my hands especially when talking about legato. Brass and Sonore are okay and Cineharp is praised by people, I just have no need for harp. I wish I could get my money back, I would use it for something much more useful (for me).
> 
> Secondly I regret both The Orchestra Complete and Nucleus, just because I have no use for them and I paid full price for both. Wish I could have my money back from them too. Within six months I spent almost 1500€ to stuff I just hate or I don't use. I hope I learned something from this. I made all these purchases shortly after I decided I wanted to start making music again after very very very long break. A decade. So it was beginner's error.


Been there done that. I had a similar story with LASS. But I gave it some time and learned to appreciate aspects of it, and it’s become a somewhat useful part of my repertoire. So give it some time, you will find hidden nuggets in those libraries when you need them


----------



## Artemi

Jackdaw said:


> I think I just suck, but I really regret buying Cinesamples bundle (it was insane 75% sale, but still paid over 600€). I like Cineperc and many may say that its worth the bundle's price and to a limit I may agree. Cinestrings are just horrible in my hands especially when talking about legato. Brass and Sonore are okay and Cineharp is praised by people, I just have no need for harp. I wish I could get my money back, I would use it for something much more useful (for me).



for some reason your message inspire me, my thoughts were that the good price doesn't mean that the library will fit you.
I think you can still make something good of it after all. maybe by just thinking in the positive way.
my opinion.


----------



## MartinH.

Jackdaw said:


> I think I just suck, but I really regret buying Cinesamples bundle (it was insane 75% sale, but still paid over 600€). I like Cineperc and many may say that its worth the bundle's price and to a limit I may agree. Cinestrings are just horrible in my hands especially when talking about legato. Brass and Sonore are okay and Cineharp is praised by people, I just have no need for harp. I wish I could get my money back, I would use it for something much more useful (for me).
> 
> Secondly I regret both The Orchestra Complete and Nucleus, just because I have no use for them and I paid full price for both. Wish I could have my money back from them too. Within six months I spent almost 1500€ to stuff I just hate or I don't use. I hope I learned something from this. I made all these purchases shortly after I decided I wanted to start making music again after very very very long break. A decade. So it was beginner's error.



Don't beat yourself up over it. The industry is systemically set up to make these things inevitable. Without us buying all these lemons, who knows, maybe half those sample developers would be out of business? So consider it a donation to a worthy cause if it makes it easier to stomach. 

The Orchestra was up for consideration as my first big orchestral library too, and I'm glad I didn't pick it. Still made the wrong choice, but glad it was slightly less wrong (for me).


----------



## BradHoyt

I think one useful exercise is to pick out all the instruments that you've regretted purchasing, and then force yourself to use only those instruments to write something. By the end, you'll have found things about those libraries that could be useful in other contexts.


----------



## Jackdaw

BradHoyt said:


> I think one useful exercise is to pick out all the instruments that you've regretted purchasing, and then force yourself to use only those instruments to write something. By the end, you'll have found things about those libraries that could be useful in other contexts.



In my case that would mean some kind of six hour long epic hybrid piano hard rock choir waltz trance symphony. I have couple of more in addition to those I listed, they were just the most expensive ones :D


----------



## jbuhler

Jackdaw said:


> six hour long epic hybrid piano hard rock choir waltz trance symphony


You say that like that's a bad thing...


----------



## BradHoyt

Jackdaw said:


> In my case that would mean some kind of six hour long epic hybrid piano hard rock choir waltz trance symphony. I have couple of more in addition to those I listed, they were just the most expensive ones :D


Now I'd like to hear what that sounds like.


----------



## Robert_G

We all have our bad purchase stories. I went out and bought Komplete 12 from the Native Instruments store at full price plus tax. If I would have read some posts here first, I would have known there are tonnes of ways to get it much cheaper. At least I bought the Komplete 12 Ultimate Upgrade at the Summer of Sound sale...and I figured out not to waste my money on the Collectors Edition. I almost got sucked into that too.

My biggest regret is buying the EastWest Composer Cloud subscription the way I did. I bought the 'Plus' addition and I prepaid for a year...and because it has the diamond and platinum editions, back then you had to have the hard drive shipped to you. That was an additional $130 or so including shipping.

I actually paid $820 CND ($600 U.S.) for a year of CC Plus. *It's painful to think about.*
If I could do that again, I'd outright buy the entire HW Orchestra diamond and Spaces II at their monthly 60% off sale for $725 CND and I would be further ahead. The other EW libs barely got touched.
Now I'm out $820 and don't have the HW Orchestra or Spaces II. Huge mistake.

$1700 dollars between those 2 rookie mistakes.


----------



## Zero&One

@Jackdaw 
As people have mentioned, you might well find use for them in the near future. It takes a while to find what you like & what you're good at. It's not instant.

I've made some right donkey purchases... only to find out later they sound way better in the final mix than the ones I thought sounded great initially. My current setup is nothing like I imagined it to be.


----------



## Wunderhorn

People, remember this: The desire for getting 'bang for the buck' is often blinding our vision. Just because something is 80% off does not make it more useful for _your_ workflow, for _your_ needs. Neither did it get sprinkled with magic fairy dust. 
I have done the mistake too, just to say it, but I quickly came to the realization that really the *only* thing matters is whether it is something you need. Then do your research, watch every friggin' little walkthrough and review and listen to only the demos labeled "naked", and if possible find a PDF manual or screenshots and study the GUI.

Then, I dare you - once you found what you need and it speaks to you it really does not make much difference if you pay full price or get it on sale. A truly useful tool will pay for itself many times over.
So, in the end it is more loss (money *and* time) if you just go for perceived 'bang for the buck' or something that is cheaper than what you really had in mind.

I like bargain hunting with sample libraries too. It's a great game and it feels like trophies lining up when you get a number if things in row at a great discount. But this is a waiting game and I have to discipline myself to only hunt for things I really want. And I have to decide, can I wait for a sale? But if not, and if I need it, I either get it at full price or I realize that I do _not_ need it that badly.

One example out of my own storybook: Choir libraries. Sometimes they are on sale left and right... Oh, that 8Dio Flash sale... woohoo... Well, no. I dared to get Dominus Pro one day. It made every other library obsolete (At least to 95%). And for the sum of all the sale prices of those former libraries, I could have gotten Dominus Pro much earlier.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Robert_G said:


> I actually paid $820 CND ($600 U.S.) for a year of CC Plus. *It's painful to think about.*



Yikes, how did that happen? $70 per month? I’ve had CC X for a few years, only paying $15 per month.


----------



## Hellfog

I regret buying Hollywood Orchestra Gold, Sampletank 4 Max


----------



## José Herring

labornvain said:


> I like omnisphere, but honestly most of the default sounds are suitable for scoring an 80s porn film.
> 
> But I also have Keyscape, which is about the only thing I use it for. Keyscape is really good.


Hey, you can't beat the classics. 

But, anyway. Yeah, I'm the last person to hold out on actually getting Omni because I've heard every demo multiple times and I've heard the original at NAMM and every time I do I just think it sounds a bit like my old JV880. Which is fine but I don't exactly use it any more.

On the other hand they do have a sample import option on Omni and there are some processing that is hard to find like the Quad Resonator and Innerspace.

I don't know what kind of music you do, but try running some orchestra FX samples into Omni then using the creative FX to really mess with it. I think you'll get some good stuff out of it if you lean off the included presets and onto it's sample important and Grain, wavetable capabilities. Also, it's great way to breath life into the old orchestral libraries FX and you can create some interesting new sounds and soundscapes.


----------



## José Herring

Hellfog said:


> I regret buying Hollywood Orchestra Gold, Sampletank 4 Max


Take the time to go through each patch. Strings take time to learn which patches work. Brass, I haven't heard much better. So that should work for you straight up.

What are you having problems with specifically?


----------



## Robert_G

Wolfie2112 said:


> Yikes, how did that happen? $70 per month? I’ve had CC X for a few years, only paying $15 per month.



Let me check my bill order:

39.99 U.S. per month for Composer Cloud Plus. No deal for prepaying for the year. Not sure why I did that.
Total for me was $479 U.S. prepaid.
$99 U.S. for the Hardrive. $20.99 U.S. for shipping.

Total cost $598.99 U.S. x 1.37(exchange rate) = $820.62 CND


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Hellfog said:


> I regret buying Hollywood Orchestra Gold, Sampletank 4 Max


I had given up on Hollywood Strings Gold for a while. (Years ago, Play was miserable for Mac users.) 

But recently I've come around to it again, and find that there's a lot to like. Maybe you'll find a way to make it work for you.


----------



## Hellfog

josejherring said:


> Take the time to go through each patch. Strings take time to learn which patches work. Brass, I haven't heard much better. So that should work for you straight up.
> 
> What are you having problems with specifically?




Well don't know if there are any problems with Hollywood but mabey not for me. . Maybe have to use it more. Sample Tank its a hole diffrent story, I really like the sounds, but just big big problems with the software, been talking support people many times on forum and etc.


----------



## dzilizzi

jbuhler said:


> I think everyone has stories something like this: buying VIs that are not at all bad for what they are but just not what you needed. Every year I make fewer of these mistakes (I still make them!). But also I sometimes find that those mistakes turn out to be useful additions to my collection after all.


I've bought some bundles over the last couple years where I bought for one library and found that I dislike the one I thought I wanted, but really love something else in the bundle that I didn't expect to like. 

@Jackdaw it also could be that in a year, you may change and find these libraries are useful. It really depends on what you want to do with your sound. The Orchestra, as an orchestra, is blah. I would not have bought it. But the engine with all the presets? Totally worth the price for that. You never know. I go back and try libraries I picked up years ago. Some still suck for me. Others now make their way into my experiments. I won't actually call them works. They aren't that good.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Robert_G said:


> Let me check my bill order:
> 
> 39.99 U.S. per month for Composer Cloud Plus. No deal for prepaying for the year. Not sure why I did that.
> Total for me was $479 U.S. prepaid.
> $99 U.S. for the Hardrive. $20.99 U.S. for shipping.
> 
> Total cost $598.99 U.S. x 1.37(exchange rate) = $820.62 CND



Yeah, that is nuts, I didn’t know that’s what they charged for Plus. I really wish EW gave some sort of credit towards buying a library if you’ve subscribed for a certain period of time.


----------



## jonnelson1988

nilblo said:


> Native Instruments Symphonic Series.
> Not my kind of library. In my defence, it ws the first libraries I bought and I didn´t do my homework..


I fell for the great sounding processed demos on their website.


----------



## ongoing

Bollen said:


> Anything by 8dio...



Yeah they have some magic demo skills though 😂


----------



## Rossy

Jackdaw said:


> I think I just suck, but I really regret buying Cinesamples bundle (it was insane 75% sale, but still paid over 600€). I like Cineperc and many may say that its worth the bundle's price and to a limit I may agree. Cinestrings are just horrible in my hands especially when talking about legato. Brass and Sonore are okay and Cineharp is praised by people, I just have no need for harp. I wish I could get my money back, I would use it for something much more useful (for me).
> 
> Secondly I regret both The Orchestra Complete and Nucleus, just because I have no use for them and I paid full price for both. Wish I could have my money back from them too. Within six months I spent almost 1500€ to stuff I just hate or I don't use. I hope I learned something from this. I made all these purchases shortly after I decided I wanted to start making music again after very very very long break. A decade. So it was beginner's error.


Just curious, do you think if you could have demoed them, that would have helped you decide?


----------



## jonnelson1988

Wunderhorn said:


> People, remember this: The desire for getting 'bang for the buck' is often blinding our vision. Just because something is 80% off does not make it more useful for _your_ workflow, for _your_ needs. Neither did it get sprinkled with magic fairy dust.
> I have done the mistake too, just to say it, but I quickly came to the realization that really the *only* thing matters is whether it is something you need. Then do your research, watch every friggin' little walkthrough and review and listen to only the demos labeled "naked", and if possible find a PDF manual or screenshots and study the GUI.
> 
> Then, I dare you - once you found what you need and it speaks to you it really does not make much difference if you pay full price or get it on sale. A truly useful tool will pay for itself many times over.
> So, in the end it is more loss (money *and* time) if you just go for perceived 'bang for the buck' or something that is cheaper than what you really had in mind.
> 
> I like bargain hunting with sample libraries too. It's a great game and it feels like trophies lining up when you get a number if things in row at a great discount. But this is a waiting game and I have to discipline myself to only hunt for things I really want. And I have to decide, can I wait for a sale? But if not, and if I need it, I either get it at full price or I realize that I do _not_ need it that badly.
> 
> One example out of my own storybook: Choir libraries. Sometimes they are on sale left and right... Oh, that 8Dio Flash sale... woohoo... Well, no. I dared to get Dominus Pro one day. It made every other library obsolete (At least to 95%). And for the sum of all the sale prices of those former libraries, I could have gotten Dominus Pro much earlier.


now you tell me. Smh lol


----------



## Rory

I’m taking a conservative approach to buying virtual instruments and this thread helps reinforce that. So far, I don’t regret anything, and I want to keep it that way.

Current paid libraries:

C. Bechstein Digital Grand
I play acoustic piano and I‘ve owned this for several years. Excellent, will not be purchasing another piano library absent a good reason.

Spitfire BBC Core
Purchased during the recent sale, glad I didn’t spring for Pro. I don’t need it yet.

Spitfire Frank Ricotti Mallets
I love this, also purchased during the sale.

Spitfire Percussion (Joby Burgess)
Reasonably satisfied that it doesn’t overlap too much with BBC Core, also purchased during the sale.

Chocalate Audio Celeste
I can’t say that I “need” this, but it’s well made and I don’t regret the purchase at US$30. It’s a library to play around with.


----------



## Jackdaw

Rossy said:


> Just curious, do you think if you could have demoed them, that would have helped you decide?



Absolutely. I probably would have passed half of the libraries if demoing had been possible. Including those I mentioned. Though Nucleus was my first orchestral library and it was good starter. Still I think that if I had invested in ARK 1 like I wanted, I would still be using my first library.


----------



## easyrider

Jackdaw said:


> I think I just suck, but I really regret buying Cinesamples bundle (it was insane 75% sale, but still paid over 600€). I like Cineperc and many may say that its worth the bundle's price and to a limit I may agree. Cinestrings are just horrible in my hands especially when talking about legato. Brass and Sonore are okay and Cineharp is praised by people, I just have no need for harp. I wish I could get my money back, I would use it for something much more useful (for me).



I bought it too and regret it...The strings have a white noise to them that drives me nuts...!

I got it on PayPal Credit for 4 months 0% and just dump £150 per month out my account to get rid of the mistake


----------



## Jackdaw

easyrider said:


> The strings have a white noise to them that drives me nuts...!



I actually didn't even think about it, I have other problems with it also. But now that you said it... what has been heard cannot be unheard :O


----------



## Monkey Man

jbuhler said:


> You say that like that's a bad thing...


----------



## Chungus

I've bought most of Spitfire's SSO line-up during the last sale, and found myself wishing hadn't.

The patch organization runs counter to my workflow, for one. I could learn to deal with that. What I can't learn to deal with are a whole host of technical issues. The most damning being them having a habit of causing my DAW to freeze. ಠ_ಠ

While not nearly as negative, I'm also not entirely happy with VSL's Solo Voices, with these having some jarring dynamic crossfades.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

I haven’t bought this library: United Strings of Europe by Auddict, but I’d be grateful for opinions on it.

I remember this library being a “regrettable buy” for a few members some time ago, and just seen this advertised as a current deal by Audio Plugin Deals at $120 (80% off)!

Info states it is over 50gb, and wondering if it is overkill (Quantity over Quality?).

Does anyone have this library, as I don’t see it mentioned much in the forum?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## gohrev

I _kind of_ regret Spitfire Studio Strings Pro.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

EWHO Diamond.

Just bought it - and I'm already annoyed with Play. That's after approaching it with a positive mind, mind you. Simple things are just cumbersome.



Spoiler: Example



If you have one of the Full String instrument loaded and want to replace the 1st Violins patch with another 1st Violins patch, you can't just click on the 1st Violins patch and hit Delete on the keyboard; no, you have to move the mouse down to where East West has decided to place a Delete-button in the GUI.



Then five minutes ago, Play crashed Reaper. Why? Because I double-clicked on an instrument in order to load it. Just like you should.

To top it off, when I load a Full String instrument and then delete all the patches it contains, the GUI changes from Hollywood Orchestra to EW Backup Singers...

(I don't even own EW Backup Singers btw., not that it makes any difference!)

Seems like this will be a fun library to use going forward.


----------



## John R Wilson

hbjdk said:


> EWHO Diamond.
> 
> Just bought it - and I'm already annoyed with Play. That's after approaching it with a positive mind, mind you. Simple things are just cumbersome.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Example
> 
> 
> 
> If you have one of the Full String instrument loaded and want to replace the 1st Violins patch with another 1st Violins patch, you can't just click on the 1st Violins patch and hit Delete on the keyboard; no, you have to move the mouse down to where East West has decided to place a Delete-button in the GUI.
> 
> 
> 
> Then five minutes ago, Play crashed Reaper. Why? Because I double-clicked on an instrument in order to load it. Just like you should.
> 
> To top it off, when I load a Full String instrument and then delete all the patches it contains, the GUI changes from Hollywood Orchestra to EW Backup Singers...
> 
> (I don't even own EW Backup Singers btw., not that it makes any difference!)
> 
> Seems like this will be a fun library to use going forward.




You can change the default GUI that loads. I think it defaults to EW Backup Singers.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

John R Wilson said:


> You can change the default GUI that loads. I think it defaults to EW Backup Singers.


Ah yes, I found the option. Thanks. That is actually intended then. A little confusing to see EW Backup Singers GUI pop up all of a sudden though


----------



## pluebellify

hbjdk said:


> EWHO Diamond.
> 
> Just bought it - and I'm already annoyed with Play. That's after approaching it with a positive mind, mind you. Simple things are just cumbersome.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Example
> 
> 
> 
> If you have one of the Full String instrument loaded and want to replace the 1st Violins patch with another 1st Violins patch, you can't just click on the 1st Violins patch and hit Delete on the keyboard; no, you have to move the mouse down to where East West has decided to place a Delete-button in the GUI.
> 
> 
> 
> Then five minutes ago, Play crashed Reaper. Why? Because I double-clicked on an instrument in order to load it. Just like you should.
> 
> To top it off, when I load a Full String instrument and then delete all the patches it contains, the GUI changes from Hollywood Orchestra to EW Backup Singers...
> 
> (I don't even own EW Backup Singers btw., not that it makes any difference!)
> 
> Seems like this will be a fun library to use going forward.


Also - double clicking a new instrument from Play's Browser replaces the instrument you have loaded - you don't have to delete and then add. 

(Shift+Double Clicking a new instrument adds the instrument into Play rather than replacing the instrument already loaded)


----------



## michalioz

For me it would be:

*Spitfire Albion One:* So far I seriously don't get the vibes. Perhaps had I bought it with a discount it would be okay, but now I certainly don't value it as high as its original price.

*CineStrings Core:* I also have Cineperc, Cineharps, Cinepiano and Cinebrass core and I love them all so not sure what happened with this one but I'd gladly get a refund if possible.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

pluebellify said:


> Also - double clicking a new instrument from Play's Browser replaces the instrument you have loaded - you don't have to delete and then add.
> 
> (Shift+Double Clicking a new instrument adds the instrument into Play rather than replacing the instrument already loaded)


Thank you  I may have been too harsh in my post about this library.


----------



## jaketanner

SStB for sure. NI Symphony Series Strings, SCS, CSSS, SF Solo Strings...there are more, but not worth listing. Not that they're all bad, it's just too many options and then I found libraries that I prefer more...so they get tossed aside. I'm sure its like this with most...we buy because we are not sure of the sound we are after or what will work. This is especially true early on. Once work comes in, and you use a library once, it's probably worth it...Anyway.


----------



## jaketanner

Rossy said:


> Just curious, do you think if you could have demoed them, that would have helped you decide?


There would be little to no regrets if this were possible. I think that's one reason that developers don't offer it...well not all. VSL actually has a 30 day money back option and you can resell it I think also. I truly believe if Spitfire had a return policy, they'd be out of business by now. LOL OR, that would motivate them to pay more attention to details...maybe that's not such a bad things then.


----------



## Rodney Money

Well, I just bought an iPad Pro, in a few weeks after I finish a couple of commissions I’m gonna get staffpad and spend more money on the libraries I already own but staffpad’s versions. If composing and mock-ups become easier and even sound better on staffpad than the other usual way, then I will regret every sample I’ve ever purchased since 2011.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Fable Sounds Broadway Lites, EastWest RA, LASS Full - bought those, didn't like them, never used them.

Also have plenty of stuff I've bought on impulse / due to GAS and have never used (lots of Spitfire stuff in that bucket...), but don't necessarily consider it a full waste of money since I still like the sound of them and hope to use them one day.


----------



## Morning Coffee

Sonokinetic's Bells & Whistles. Too much baked in room tone, it really sticks out to me.


----------



## lettucehat

For the sake of compatibility with collaborators it's been worth it, but to me personally the Output bundle has been the main big purchase I regret. Rev is great, Signal and Substance have their uses, but I've found so much of the rest to be pretty unusable and tedious to trawl through.

I probably shouldn't have bought 8dio's Agitato Legato Arpeggio stuff. I was under the impression they'd be a bit more strung together rather than prerecorded spiccato riffs. That's on me. And the Anthology upgrade is debatable - it seems to have sucked some of the life out of the tone, which made the original Adagio/Agitato stuff special.

Wide Blue Sound's stuff also goes into the mostly unusable category for me as far as presets go. I usually end up using software synths for pulses.


----------



## TomislavEP

Sorry to say, but for now I'm rather disappointed with the "Cinematic Soft Piano" from SA I've purchased recently.

I got it for two reasons. First, the "Soft Piano" from LABS (Kontakt) is something I've often used in my work despite the fact I have quite a few of virtual pianos. It has something about it that always inspires me, despite its limitations. So, naturally, I was intrigued by the more detailed and refined version. Secondly, I have several SA libraries recorded at AIR, so CSP should be a no-brainer addition to my sound palette.

I still haven't tried it in a context, but for solo piano work, which I most often do, it just didn't sit well with me. It has a prominent clicky attack and some overtones in the mid and mid-high registers I'm not too fond of. Also, I'm still not a big fan of Spitfire's dedicated player plugin though I'm trying to make peace with it, mainly due to some interesting new additions to the LABS series that weren't available for Kontakt.

I will try to give it some more time though I usually fall in love at first sight (or not) when it comes to samples.


----------



## pcarrilho

Cinematic Studio Strings.. yes... maybe i am the only person who don't like it... but for me, sounds "synthetic"...


----------



## jaketanner

pcarrilho said:


> Cinematic Studio Strings.. yes... maybe i am the only person who don't like it... but for me, sounds "synthetic"...


I also regret buying because I really don't use it. It sounds okay, but I am not a fan of the vibrato and I like more detail...so I bought CSSS to try and give more detail and regret that purchase too.. LOL.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

jaketanner said:


> I also regret buying because I really don't use it. It sounds okay, but I am not a fan of the vibrato and I like more detail...so I bought CSSS to try and give more detail and regret that purchase too.. LOL.


What do you prefer using?


----------



## jaketanner

So far I've used Con Moto (legato only)...I will however say this about CSS...I did use it to blend with Con Moto to give a bit more smoothness...NOT layered, but I will replace violin 1 with CSS and maybe cello and leave the rest Con Moto...or vice versa...I try not to layer, but blended it works well. But I can probably do this with other libraries as well...I also have Synchron Strings 1...but haven't used them yet.

I am currently looking for a bread and butter library. I am waiting for NCS to be released...collaboration between Audio Ollie and Performance Samples. Maybe Audiobro will also release their new library. But I don't like heavy vibrato at all...I also think that a mid sized string library is more flexible for my needs but with detail, not lush.


----------



## Beans

As much as I like the idea of it, I haven't used *Spitfire Audio Kepler* in a single, completed track. It just never quite sits right for me, or it gets replaced by other ideas. I'd love to get my hands on one of their demo's project files. It really feels like they've abandoned this one.

I have a love/hate relationship with *AudioBro Genesis*. I appreciate the crazy flexibility it offers in some ways (the stage, the Phrasebuilder, and oh my gosh the Detune), but I keep eyeing Strezov Arva due to its tone (and, some of the demos show off really quick legato). I very much prefer to use EQ only when polishing a piece, but it's the _first _thing I did with a custom patch I saved for Genesis. So, not a lot of pure regret, but I do fight with it and have some Arva FOMO.

I also have mixed feelings about *Afflatus Chapter I* by Strezov (note: I love their Storm Choir Ultimate and Jade). The inspiration it provides on some of the unique combined patches (bass/cello/piano, for example) has been great, but I often step back and feel that I really should replace it with separate elements. It's priced quite high for "that type" of use. It could be a lifesaver, however, with a quick deadline.


----------



## jononotbono

Jaeger. Bought it 10 days before the current “fire”sale of the century. Biggest sample regret yet. 😂 

As for Jaeger, it’s an outstanding library.


----------



## Mike Fox

Beans said:


> As much as I like the idea of it, I haven't used *Spitfire Audio Kepler* in a single, completed track. It just never quite sits right for me, or it gets replaced by other ideas. I'd love to get my hands on one of their demo's project files. It really feels like they've abandoned this one.
> 
> I have a love/hate relationship with *AudioBro Genesis*. I appreciate the crazy flexibility it offers in some ways (the stage, the Phrasebuilder, and oh my gosh the Detune), but I keep eyeing Strezov Arva due to its tone (and, some of the demos show off really quick legato). I very much prefer to use EQ only when polishing a piece, but it's the _first _thing I did with a custom patch I saved for Genesis. So, not a lot of pure regret, but I do fight with it and have some Arva FOMO.
> 
> I also have mixed feelings about *Afflatus Chapter I* by Strezov (note: I love their Storm Choir Ultimate and Jade). The inspiration it provides on some of the unique combined patches (bass/cello/piano, for example) has been great, but I often step back and feel that I really should replace it with separate elements. It's priced quite high for "that type" of use. It could be a lifesaver, however, with a quick deadline.


I thought Genesis was going to be the be-all, end-all children's choir library for me, then i got Arva, and haven't used Genesis since. I just prefer the tone, playability, and workflow a lot more!


----------



## Everratic

I don’t have any major regrets, but I’ve learned to trust my ears more and less so the opinions of others, even when a library has a 90%+ approval rating.


----------



## Mike Fox

jononotbono said:


> Jaeger. Bought it 10 days before the current “fire”sale of the century. Biggest sample regret yet. 😂
> 
> As for Jaeger, it’s an outstanding library.


Duuuude!!!! Maybe hit up Audio Imperia? A lot of developers have been known to help out customers found in similar situations!


----------



## Hendrixon

I regret even downloading the free Sampletank 4...


----------



## Hendrixon

Yea I have one, not a biggie but still.... when I bought CSS I got an offer to add their piano to the cart for half price ($35?). I thought cool, I never even heard that piano **once**, but coming from such an acclaimed developer it MUST be worth it for that price (recap: what I was thinking is "how bad it could be?" lol), so sure why not, added it  

Well, I deleted it faster than the free Sampletank 4!
Honestly I think its comparable to maybe some free pianos on the net, I even had piano modules 30 years ago that could give it a run

As I said, no biggie, its just $35 for a quick lesson in "listening first", and its nothing against Alex and crew, I will add CSB and CS2 to my VIs once all these summer sales will be over


----------



## benmrx

The $500 I spent on the initial release of 8Dio Adagio Violins.


----------



## jamessy

jononotbono said:


> Jaeger. Bought it 10 days before the current “fire”sale of the century. Biggest sample regret yet. 😂
> 
> As for Jaeger, it’s an outstanding library.



Would this current sale probably not come around again on BF?


----------



## Paul Christof

Beans said:


> As much as I like the idea of it, I haven't used *Spitfire Audio Kepler* in a single, completed track. It just never quite sits right for me, or it gets replaced by other ideas. I'd love to get my hands on one of their demo's project files. It really feels like they've abandoned this one.



I was in the same boat, until one day i realised that:

a) using the mix patches is actually gonna give you the full sound with minimal CPU impact, thus eliminating the need for rendering in place or freezing.

b) removing the stock delay and reverb, makes it much more useful in general, plus you can always add your own effects.

c) Make sure you tick off the external sync of Kontakt, and double the current tempo, if you want even faster rhythms. It makes the library 10x more useful.

d) play around with the attack (i usually set it at 30ms and compensate accordingly), and release (i usually leave it at 100-150ms).

Conclusion: The default patches are a mess, attack/release times are ridiculous, it’s cpu-hungry, crappy fx, etc...but once you make a couple of tweaks here and there, it can become a real workhorse library for adding extra motion and interesting textures. And FYI, I’m using it for a game score right now, so all the ”tips” came from using it in finished pieces, plus it’s super dry w/o stock fx, so you can blend it very easily. (I have to admit, I distort the living hell out of all the string and brass patches, sooooo..try that out too, you can get some gnarly sounds).


----------



## Beans

Paul Christof said:


> b) removing the stock delay and reverb, makes it much more useful in general, plus you can always add your own effects.



I need to dig into your other suggestions, but I know this one to be 100% valid.


----------



## Beans

jaketanner said:


> I also have Synchron Strings 1...but haven't used them yet.



I assume you have at least tinkered with them a bit, right? I have mixed feelings. I'm good with the legato and I enjoy the super shorts, but at full price it's missing a lot of techniques.


----------



## Synetos

I am not sure I would say I "regret" anything I have bought. I might have chosen poorly a few times in that I had a vision for what I wanted to do, but didnt do my homework on the library/player before I pulled the trigger. Got mesmarized by the example videos...as if just wanting to play guitar like Eddie Van Halen will make it come true if I buy that nice new guitar. If anything, my regret would be I have too many samples and plugins to ever seem to get good at using any of them. I think that may be why I dont use much of what I have purchased in my ravenous episodes of Gear-itis. YMMV


----------



## ag75

Rtomproductions said:


> LA Scoring Strings. What a mess. I can't think of a single library more poorly recorded than LASS.
> 
> "You have to work with it to get it to sound good." Or you could just buy a better strings library.
> 
> When you have to put out 4-5 minutes of music every day, "you have to work with it" doesn't cut it.


How funny I absolutely love LASS. Use it all the time. But to be fair I use it on pop productions. They sound great for that up front in your face Studio sound.


----------



## Scalms

TomislavEP said:


> Sorry to say, but for now I'm rather disappointed with the "Cinematic Soft Piano" from SA I've purchased recently.
> 
> I got it for two reasons. First, the "Soft Piano" from LABS (Kontakt) is something I've often used in my work despite the fact I have quite a few of virtual pianos. It has something about it that always inspires me, despite its limitations. So, naturally, I was intrigued by the more detailed and refined version. Secondly, I have several SA libraries recorded at AIR, so CSP should be a no-brainer addition to my sound palette.
> 
> I still haven't tried it in a context, but for solo piano work, which I most often do, it just didn't sit well with me. It has a prominent clicky attack and some overtones in the mid and mid-high registers I'm not too fond of. Also, I'm still not a big fan of Spitfire's dedicated player plugin though I'm trying to make peace with it, mainly due to some interesting new additions to the LABS series that weren't available for Kontakt.
> 
> I will try to give it some more time though I usually fall in love at first sight (or not) when it comes to samples.


My sentiments almost exactly too about Spitfire Cinematic soft piano. I didn’t even listen to any of its sounds, just instant purchase. the First one Christian recorded was so magical I automatically assumed they would improve upon it recording at AIR. But the mechanical noises are just too much for me in the new version. There was something special about the LABS version, they recorded a felt piano but somehow avoided all the mechanically sounds which annoy me about felts (just my opinion). The closeness of the sound of LABS piano mixed with whatever onboard reverb they included gave an incredible tone. I guess it’s lightning in a bottle and can’t be easily reproduced. Oh well, I made up for it by buying Simplesamsamples signature grand recorded at AIR and that more than makes up for this Spitfire dud.


----------



## Scalms

Hendrixon said:


> Yea I have one, not a biggie but still.... when I bought CSS I got an offer to add their piano to the cart for half price ($35?). I thought cool, I never even heard that piano **once**, but coming from such an acclaimed developer it MUST be worth it for that price (recap: what I was thinking is "how bad it could be?" lol), so sure why not, added it
> 
> Well, I deleted it faster than the free Sampletank 4!
> Honestly I think its comparable to maybe some free pianos on the net, I even had piano modules 30 years ago that could give it a run
> 
> As I said, no biggie, its just $35 for a quick lesson in "listening first", and its nothing against Alex and crew, I will add CSB and CS2 to my VIs once all these summer sales will be over


I had this same reaction at first too for CS piano when I bought it, but i didn’t delete it, just let it sit there for awhile. Eventually I came back to it doing a piano shootout and I was surprised how much my initial opinion has changed. It was the only piano of the dozen or so I owned which could get up to an 11 on the dynamic range when I wanted something loud, and then the more I fiddled with it the more I grew to like it’s tone, evenness, etc. it’s a lesson to me to sometimes give new libraries a chance


----------



## Beans

I regret buying AudioBro Genesis (and Strezov Sampling Arva, as of yesterday), because now I try to put children choirs in way too many tracks.


----------



## zvenx

For me... EW Hollywood Gold and Diamond Orchestra.
Audio Bro Lass Lite

I don't' normally resell virtual instruments/samples, but if I could I would definitely sell those off.

rsp


----------



## VSriHarsha

Scalms said:


> I had this same reaction at first too for CS piano when I bought it, but i didn’t delete it, just let it sit there for awhile. Eventually I came back to it doing a piano shootout and I was surprised how much my initial opinion has changed. It was the only piano of the dozen or so I owned which could get up to an 11 on the dynamic range when I wanted something loud, and then the more I fiddled with it the more I grew to like it’s tone, evenness, etc. it’s a lesson to me to sometimes give new libraries a chance


Not all free pianos are like that. Have you checked Gran Coda(Right?). You wouldn’t believe that’s actually free. I really love the sound.


----------



## Hendrixon

Scalms said:


> I had this same reaction at first too for CS piano when I bought it, but i didn’t delete it, just let it sit there for awhile. Eventually I came back to it doing a piano shootout and I was surprised how much my initial opinion has changed. It was the only piano of the dozen or so I owned which could get up to an 11 on the dynamic range when I wanted something loud, and then the more I fiddled with it the more I grew to like it’s tone, evenness, etc. it’s a lesson to me to sometimes give new libraries a chance



Actually that's totally true sometimes.
For example when I bought CSS I wasn't super crazy about the sound, but I knew why I was getting it for (mainly the legato, the over all playing) and "fixed and changed its sound" to my *expected* liking... which was more epic/bombastic, big lows, crispy highs.
Well, after few months using it? I learned that I liked it just as it is, it has its own voice, its own character and now I love it as it is

As for the piano, it was long time ago, from memory I think it had like 4-5 layers?
Maybe buried in a mix it could work, but for something exposed, I don't know...


----------



## bill5

Alex Fraser said:


> Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere?


:Raises hand:

I can't justify $500 for a soft synth. I don't care if it makes me breakfast. 

I don't have any real regret purchases, but then I haven't spent big coin on any either. e.g. I got Hybrid synth for like a buck when Plugin Boutique used to do that kind of stuff. Couldn't even get the #@$ thing to work and a buck isn't worth that much time or stress. Bought some sound effects libraries which looked great because they were big (surely in all of that there's some good stuff right?) but weren't.


----------



## jaketanner

Beans said:


> I assume you have at least tinkered with them a bit, right? I have mixed feelings. I'm good with the legato and I enjoy the super shorts, but at full price it's missing a lot of techniques.


I actually spent the time to create my own custom patch for the legatos. I HATE that VSL uses alternate CC#s for things like dynamics...so I had to go in and alter a few things I didn't like. I am actually considering selling the license though since it's been about 3 months and I haven't used them for anything...The legato doesn't feel as smooth as other offerings I have.


----------



## ansthenia

Cinestrings - just feel very stiff to play imo, not very lively. Nice sound but because of the playability for me I pretty much never use them.

VSL synchron-ized woodwinds - I much prefer the regular VSL Woodwinds so I never use these


----------



## jaketanner

ansthenia said:


> Cinestrings - just feel very stiff to play imo, not very lively. Nice sound but because of the playability for me they're the last string library I go to that I own.
> 
> VSL synchron-ized woodwinds - I much prefer the regular VSL Woodwinds so I never use these


I also wish Cinestrings would have had other legato but bow change. It's not always smooth for certain passages, but the tone is beautiful I think...it's the reason I got them. 

I have been toying with VSL winds...and I am torn between getting SE vol 1&2, Synchronized winds, or VI winds 1&2...all three options are roughly the same price with the current sales.


----------



## Mike Fox

Hendrixon said:


> Yea I have one, not a biggie but still.... when I bought CSS I got an offer to add their piano to the cart for half price ($35?). I thought cool, I never even heard that piano **once**, but coming from such an acclaimed developer it MUST be worth it for that price (recap: what I was thinking is "how bad it could be?" lol), so sure why not, added it
> 
> Well, I deleted it faster than the free Sampletank 4!
> Honestly I think its comparable to maybe some free pianos on the net, I even had piano modules 30 years ago that could give it a run
> 
> As I said, no biggie, its just $35 for a quick lesson in "listening first", and its nothing against Alex and crew, I will add CSB and CS2 to my VIs once all these summer sales will be over


I felt exactly the same way about that piano. Fortunately, it comes with some pretty cool fx, so i didn't find it completely useless.


----------



## Marsen

Jackdaw said:


> I think I just suck, but I really regret buying Cinesamples bundle (it was insane 75% sale, but still paid over 600€). I like Cineperc and many may say that its worth the bundle's price and to a limit I may agree. Cinestrings are just horrible in my hands especially when talking about legato. Brass and Sonore are okay and Cineharp is praised by people, I just have no need for harp. I wish I could get my money back, I would use it for something much more useful (for me).
> 
> Secondly I regret both The Orchestra Complete and Nucleus, just because I have no use for them and I paid full price for both. Wish I could have my money back from them too. Within six months I spent almost 1500€ to stuff I just hate or I don't use. I hope I learned something from this. I made all these purchases shortly after I decided I wanted to start making music again after very very very long break. A decade. So it was beginner's error.



If you regret to have bought this much libraries, which get a lot of love, you may just give them a chance and time, working with them, no?
This can't be a fault of the developer. 
I do understand, if you don't like a specific library like Cinestrings, but you say you also don't like Nucleus and The Orchestra.
Maybe, you are looking for an complete different sound?
Maybe you after an different musical approach?

It may helpful to look at composers, which make music you like too, and check what they use. And more interesting, how they achieved this sound.

Also, sometimes your favorite strings won't do the job, and you're happy to have these cinestrings, which match perfectly (just happened to me lately)


----------



## JonS

easyrider said:


> Having recently upgraded my studio space and wanting to learn more about orchestration and composition I Bought NI Komplete Ulitmate CE and a S61 on sale
> 
> Its certainly fun adding to my existing guitar, bass and drum kit recordings...and for what I paid I have zero regrets.
> 
> I also bought Spitire Chamber strings in the wish list sale mainly due to curiosity...but it’s fantastic and although I thought expensive even with sale price I have been playing with it a lot and don’t regret the outlay on top of my initial a Komplete spend.
> 
> I’m also finding orchestral composition very relaxing and therapeutic
> 
> I was wondering what you guys and gals have bought in the past and now regret...I would like to avoid these pitfalls if possible or is it a case of the journey has begun....just walk the road....
> 
> thanks for you input.
> 
> Peace and Love
> 
> easyrider


For me, it’s less about what I wished I never bought and more about the timing of when I bought something given how much cheaper it sold for down the road, which sometimes can be just a couple weeks later. 

There are so many great VI libraries, soft synths and fx plugins these days I think it’s all about getting each product at the lowest possible price given how much cheaper everything becomes over time in the age of software and promotion driven sales.

IMHO just about every VI library by Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, VSL, Cinematic Studio Series, Orange Tree, Laboratory Audio, ProjectSAM, Synthogy, and Cinesamples are very solid products. Even most of the Heavyocity and EastWest libraries are pretty solid too when it comes to sound and usage. I can’t really think of anything any of these developers make that I was completely disappointed in buying as each library has its place in my template’s palette 🎨 though some get used way more than others.

That doesn’t mean you will like every single product, but the vast majority of these libraries are very good and usable. This always comes down to personal taste, so a VI Library most people adore you may not like at all. There are also several Soundiron and BestService libraries I really like.

When it comes to soft synths just about everything by Arturia, IK, Korg, UVI, Spectrasonics, u-he, keepforest, GForce, Steinberg, ToonTrack, and Native Instruments are good. You may not love it all, but most of what they create are very usable and sound good as you will discover something you like and want to use when composing.

And lastly, when it comes to fx plugins most of what’s made by Sonnox, Universal Audio, Plugin Alliance, Relab Development, LiquidSonics, McDSP, Nugen Audio, Eventide, Avid, Antares, Audio Ease, Softube, Waves, Lexicon, SoundToys, iZotope, Exponential Audio, Apogee, Valhalla, FabFilter, and Slate Digital are all good. 

You can’t really go wrong buying from any of the developers I have listed above. Yes, you may not like every single title, but so much of what they create is very usable and sounds great.

I can’t testify to Chris Hein, Strezov Sampling, Embertone, 8Dio, Musical Sampling, Ujam, Audio Imperia and Output, though I really have only heard positive things about these developers and their products.

Obviously, there are so many other developers out there, but I can’t speak about their products since I have not used them. None of the developers listed above are in any particular order of preference. In the end, my advice is to watch video reviews and listen to demos before buying anything, and most importantly always wait for at least 40% off or more promotional sales. So be patient 🙏 as just about everything goes on sale at some point for even lower prices.


----------



## doctoremmet

JonS said:


> I can’t testify to Chris Hein, Strezov Sampling, Embertone, 8Dio, Musical Sampling, Ujam, Audio Imperia and Output


-Chris Hein-: absolutely NO regrets here, very solid developer - I’d say this one is in the top tier when it comes to quality control, very solid design philosophy. If you don’t like your samples dry, or ensembles that have not been actually recorded but have been digitally re-modelled using individually sampled instruments, you may regret a purchase 

-Embertone-: these guys have recorded my favourite sample ever (Herring Clarinet) and their Joshua Bell Violin has been revered as one of the best on the market. Best in class developer. Obviously I don’t own / know their entire catalogue, but I bet most of it is pretty solid.

-Musical Sampling-: excellent strings, excellent brass. The names of their individual libraries / series reveal VERY accurately what they aim for (and imho also achieve). Adventure / Trailer. They deliver within their respective domains.

-8dio-: one of my favourite developers. Putting out a LOT of stuff, and doing a LOT of sales, these guys have sometimes missed the mark for me somewhat. Almost like they rush some stuff, and then abandon it. But not to the extent that I do not still expect the best from them. Their Century line libraries are still in my top 3 for strings and brass. These also get love, attention and 2.0 updates. Also, 8dio made my favorite sampled piano instrument. They have however, on occasion, disappointed me.

Just to fill in some of your blanks, I liked your post. Cheers


----------



## Bluemount Score

Beans said:


> I regret buying AudioBro Genesis (and Strezov Sampling Arva, as of yesterday), because now I try to put children choirs in way too many tracks.


That's just... childish behaviour


----------



## VSriHarsha

bill5 said:


> :Raises hand:
> 
> I can't justify $500 for a soft synth. I don't care if it makes me breakfast.
> 
> I don't have any real regret purchases, but then I haven't spent big coin on any either. e.g. I got Hybrid synth for like a buck when Plugin Boutique used to do that kind of stuff. Couldn't even get the #@$ thing to work and a buck isn't worth that much time or stress. Bought some sound effects libraries which looked great because they were big (surely in all of that there's some good stuff right?) but weren't.


You bought a soft synth for $500. I am sorry it just makes me laugh & say “How damn dumb you’re?”. Lol!


----------



## Michel Simons

VSriHarsha said:


> You bought a soft synth for $500. I am sorry it just makes me laugh & say “How damn dumb you’re?”. Lol!



On the contrary, he actually didn't buy it.


----------



## GMusic

Eastwest: Silk, RA, Stormdrums, Voices of Passion, Goliath. There's just too many better options now. And even when I got these new years ago, they were so specific, I didn't get to use them much. If they were $50 that's a different story, but at over $150 each even years back, just too much for what they are.


----------



## GMusic

doctoremmet said:


> -8dio-: one of my favourite developers. Putting out a LOT of stuff, and doing a LOT of sales, these guys have sometimes missed the mark for me somewhat. Almost like they rush some stuff, and then abandon it. But not to the extent that I do not still expect the best from them. Their Century line libraries are still in my top 3 for strings and brass. These also get love, attention and 2.0 updates. Also, 8dio made my favorite sampled piano instrument. They have however, on occasion, disappointed me.
> 
> Just to fill in some of your blanks, I liked your post. Cheers



That's the problem. They have way too many sales. To the point where there is absolutely no reason to buy anything full priced unless you MUST have a particular sound for something due tomorrow. But the overly frequent sales devalue the products, IMO. Why can't they just set a reasonable price to their stuff and keep it that way?

We know Majestica isn't worth $500 by today's standards, so why even over value it and then put it up for $148 several times to make people feel like it's a steal? If it was once a year or every other year, ok, that's nice of you, but to do it multiple times every year like a play book, just feels disingenuous. I feel somewhat bad saying this, because they are a generous company (giving some libraries away for free, for example). But still, the pricing feels like taking advantage of those who don't know any better of their pricing methods, so you get a few naive people to buy at full price, then watch the cash flow in when those in-the-know buy in during the inevitable sales and "no-brainer" deals.

On the other hand, look at Omnisphere. When you buy it, you feel good knowing your hard earned money is well invested in a stable, solid product for many YEARS to come (not just days or weeks). It will be $500 worth for years. Not $500 today, then next week $150 for 7 days, then next month $175, then next next month for free with a BOGO offer. Omnisphere could easily sell for $800, then go on frequent sales for $500, but they don't do that. They stick with one honest, more than humble price point.

And a few other things...

- 8DIO libraries are also not licensed through Native Instruments, so they aren't listed in the main library list or Kontakt Player compatible. 
- No tags for Komplete Kontrol. 
- Libraries aren't resellable. 
- "What happens in V8P stays in V8P." Well...there's really not much to talk about...

This isn't to say I won't buy any more 8DIO libraries, because I will! They have some quality stuff no doubt. But I do regret investing so much and buying some of the random libraries just to feel better about supporting them and using those random libraries in almost none of my music. Over the years, it really added up $$$. And hard drive space also suffers as they are usually quite hefty libraries.


----------



## Markrs

VSriHarsha said:


> You bought a soft synth for $500. I am sorry it just makes me laugh & say “How damn dumb you’re?”. Lol!


omnisphere is a soft synth, though a ridiculously powerful one and many people pay close to $500 for that and few seem to have regrets.


----------



## VSriHarsha

Michel Simons said:


> On the contrary, he actually didn't buy it.


Sorry for that! I thought the other way yea you’re right. He did not. Good & thanks.


----------



## VSriHarsha

Markrs said:


> omnisphere is a soft synth, though a ridiculously powerful one and many people pay close to $500 for that and few seem to have regrets.


What would you use that for? I mean is it good for replicating an orchestral Instrument? I am sorry when I heard about Omnisphere I was literally disappointed of knowing what I vaguely remember it is but Trillian, yes I vote for that but still I don’t know but I was never a fan of their things. Although I know few film composers do use their stuff.


----------



## Markrs

VSriHarsha said:


> What would you use that for? I mean is it good for replicating an orchestral Instrument? I am sorry when I heard about Omnisphere I was literally disappointed of knowing what I vaguely remember it is but Trillian, yes I vote for that but still I don’t know but I was never a fan of their things. Although I know few film composers do use their stuff.


Not so much for replicating a orchestral instrument (that’s not really one of its strengths) but for creating or manipulating any sound you want in almost infinite ways. It comes with 1000s of patches and you can buy 1000s of patches made by others. I’m not an expert on Omnisphere but lots of people on here love it and use it regularly.


----------



## el-bo

VSriHarsha said:


> You bought a soft synth for $500. I am sorry it just makes me laugh & say “How damn dumb you’re?”. Lol!



Calling Omnisphere a soft-synth is like calling Buckingham Palace a house!


----------



## ridgero

Markrs said:


> omnisphere is a soft synth, though a ridiculously powerful one and many people pay close to $500 for that and few seem to have regrets.



It‘s actually a ROMpler

Even the simplest sawtooth in Omnisphere is based on a sample.


----------



## doctoremmet

ridgero said:


> It‘s actually a ROMpler
> 
> Even the simplest sawtooth in Omnisphere is based on a sample.


I THINK that is not entirely correct?

“ When the Oscillator is in SYNTH Mode, Omnisphere uses DSP wavetables generated in real-time by the STEAM engine. “


----------



## VSriHarsha

el-bo said:


> Calling Omnisphere a soft-synth is like calling Buckingham Palace a house!


Wow! What a comparison? So is it capable of doing something compelling with it?


----------



## bill5

doctoremmet said:


> I THINK that is not entirely correct?


It's not.

PS/FWIW I am not bashing Omnisphere. I'm happy to concede it's a great synth. I would just never pay that much for one and for me (repeat: for me), it's nowhere near worth it.


----------



## doctoremmet

bill5 said:


> It's not.
> 
> PS/FWIW I am not bashing Omnisphere. I'm happy to concede it's a great synth. I would just never pay that much for one and for me (repeat: for me), it's nowhere near worth it.


For the record; me neither. Don’t own it, and no GAS for it. But I don’t think it’s merely a rompler. So we agree


----------



## gst98

VSriHarsha said:


> Although I know few film composers do use their stuff.



I think you would struggle to find a modern film score that_ doesn't_ have omnisphere in it. Not only is an amazing film scoring tool (which the name soft-synth does no justice) but is used all over EDM and is pretty much the only tool that trap and hip-hop producers use now.


----------



## shponglefan

ridgero said:


> It‘s actually a ROMpler



Omnisphere has a deep synth engine under the hood. It got a reputation as a ROMpler because it also comes with a boatload of samples, but it can also generate sounds through its synthesis engine. In fact, a number of the presets it comes with are based on synthesis and not sampled sounds.


----------



## shponglefan

bill5 said:


> It's not.
> 
> PS/FWIW I am not bashing Omnisphere. I'm happy to concede it's a great synth. I would just never pay that much for one and for me (repeat: for me), it's nowhere near worth it.



I look at it from a value for $ perspective. Even though I've poured a lot into virtual synths and sample libraries over the years, and I always come back to Omnisphere. It may be the most expensive of all the individual virtual synths I use, but it's also the one I use the most.


----------



## bill5

Really I wish the term "rompler" would go just go away...

I admit I would be curious to try Omnisphere. Wish they had a demo.


----------



## shponglefan

doctoremmet said:


> I THINK that is not entirely correct?
> 
> “ When the Oscillator is in SYNTH Mode, Omnisphere uses DSP wavetables generated in real-time by the STEAM engine. “



This is correct. Per their manual:

_Synth Mode employs your computer’s processor through the use of DSP (Digital Signal Processing) to synthesize wavetables in real-time. _









Synth Mode / DSP - Omnisphere 2 - 2.8


Synth Mode employs your computer’s processor through the use of DSP (Digital Signal Processing) to synthesize wavetables in real-time. A wavetable is a...




support.spectrasonics.net





Omnisphere also has other methods of synthesis including FM and granular synthesis.


----------



## doctoremmet

shponglefan said:


> I look at it from a value for $ perspective. Even though I've poured a lot into virtual synths and sample libraries over the years, and I always come back to Omnisphere. It may be the most expensive of all the individual virtual synths I use, but it's also the one I use the most.


The keyword being VALUE here indeed. Coming from someone who does not own it . But everyone who owns it, seems to love it. I also like a company that knows the value of their product, prices it accordingly and does not use sales to an extent that it hurts “suckers” who paid full price. Very commendable, wish more vendors would have the guts to do the same.


----------



## Geoff Grace

As one of the older members of the forum, I'd like to add that I've seen hardware synths costing ten times the price of Omnisphere (more than ten times, if you adjust for inflation); and Omnisphere is capable of a wider variety of sounds than most of them were. Similarly, you could spend $500 on a crop of soft synths; and they still wouldn't be likely to equal Omnisphere's range.

As for the term "ROMpler," it's important to remember that most ROMplers used small snippets of samples to create sounds. The storage of most ROMplers is measured in megabytes, not in gigabytes. In contrast, Omnisphere comes with over 60 gigabytes of sample content; but as mentioned above, it isn't limited to making sounds with samples.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## method1

Spectrasonics has very good upgrade policies and excellent customer service.

I think the upgrade from atmosphere was $199 back in the day and every update since has been free, some of those updates added a lot of content and new features.

Plus I've used OMNI on pretty much every project I've done since getting it, so for me in terms of value it's probably the best money I've ever spent on an instrument! I also own Trillian and Keyscape which seamlessly integrate into omni making it even more... OMNI.

Sorry wrong thread, no regrets here!


----------



## el-bo

VSriHarsha said:


> Wow! What a comparison? So is it capable of doing something compelling with it?



Omnisphere is an extremely powerful instrument that comes packed with an enormously diverse quantity of top-quality source material. However, ultimately, it's still just a tool. Whether or not it can produce compelling material is, as with any instrument, down to the vision and skill of the composer.


----------



## el-bo

method1 said:


> Spectrasonics has very good upgrade policies and excellent customer service.
> 
> I think the upgrade from atmosphere was $199 back in the day and every update since has been free, some of those updates added a lot of content and new features.
> 
> Plus I've used OMNI on pretty much every project I've done since getting it, so for me *in terms of value it's probably the best money I've ever spent on an instrument!* I also own Trillian and Keyscape which seamlessly integrate into omni making it even more... OMNI.
> 
> Sorry wrong thread, no regrets here!



I remember buying a boxed copy of Atmosphere from Turnkey in London, about fifteen years ago. I'm sure it was over 200 quid. Even with that relatively-small amount of content (4gig), it was still fantastic value. Now it comes with over fifteen times the sample content, thousands more presets, and a very advanced instrument within which all that power resides. They added all that while only doubling the price.


----------



## CatOrchestra

NOIRE was not my cup of tea. Luckily NI is super chill with transfers. So I prefer buying stuff from NI, as it is relatively easy to resell.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Outside of our DAW, Omnisphere is the deepest piece of music software you will likely find (Falcon is up there and Kontakt is up there too if you sample your own sounds). It has a metric ton of sound sources that you can use as starting ones along with an extremely powerful synthesis engine (more powerful and robust than 90% of synths out there). I don’t love the interface as much as other synths but it is an absolute beast in terms of what it can do. That also could be its downfall for some people - doing too much can make it difficult in the moment to choose it as the tool to do something specific. Falcon is like that too in my mind.


----------



## bill5

Geoff Grace said:


> As one of the older members of the forum, I'd like to add that I've seen hardware synths costing ten times the price of Omnisphere (more than ten times, if you adjust for inflation)


Comparing hardware and software is apples and oranges, to say nothing of comparing cost of things years ago vs now. My first PC cost ten times what my last one did and was far far less powerful.



> you could spend $500 on a crop of soft synths; and they still wouldn't be likely to equal Omnisphere's range.


I doubt that. In fact I suspect you could spend little to nothing on soft synths and get close to what Omnisphere can do overall. Granted it would take a variety of them


----------



## kgdrum

bill5 said:


> Comparing hardware and software is apples and oranges, to say nothing of comparing cost of things years ago vs now. My first PC cost ten times what my last one did and was far far less powerful.
> 
> I doubt that. In fact I suspect you could spend little to nothing on soft synths and get close to what Omnisphere can do overall. Granted it would take a variety of them




The only people I ever hear say this about being able to replicate Omnisphere with an assortment of cheap or free soft-synths are people that don’t have Omnisphere.
Conversely the most typical reaction most new Omnisphere users have(myself included) is SHIT! How much 💰💰💰 did I waste on 1/2 baked 2nd tier “bargains? “
Most people who actually bought and use Omnisphere actually think Omni is worth every penny of its cost and consider it a bargain when you actually realize how deep it is and it’s usefulness.

Omnisphere Rocks! 👍


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow

I was interested to read so much negative stuff for 8dio. I have been eying some of their Intimate Studio stuff and the Fire sax/trumpet, but there’s not much out there on them (except for praise for Intimate Studio Strings) I have been watching the daily sales, but nothing so far has interested me. I guess I should proceed with caution with their stuff.

So far I haven’t had too many misses, but one regret that comes to mind is Orange Tree’s archtop guitar (I forget the actual name). It sounds amazing in the demos, but I haven’t been able to get anything as good from it. It’s probably me that’s to blame, but my impression is that it’s not easy to get good results. I really like their Passion Flute though and their Pure Jazz Vibes isn’t bad either.


----------



## shponglefan

kgdrum said:


> Conversely the most typical reaction most new Omnisphere users have(myself included) is SHIT! How much 💰💰💰 did I waste on thise 1/2 baked 2nd tier “bargains “



The biggest Omnisphere regret is to not have bought it sooner.


----------



## Geoff Grace

bill5 said:


> I doubt that. In fact I suspect you could spend little to nothing on soft synths and get close to what Omnisphere can do overall. Granted it would take a variety of them


I might be skeptical too, if I didn't have years with Omnisphere under my belt.

Let me put it this way: I also have a great many soft synths, including Diva, Repro, BX_Oberhausen, Syntronik Deluxe, and Synth Anthology II, for starters. Some are sample-based synths and others are pure synths. The pure synths cover much of the same synthesizer ground that Omnisphere does, but they don't have its sample content. The sample-based synths are derived from many of the same sources that Omnisphere uses, but they're limited to traditional synths, while Omnisphere's sample content also contains a long list of acoustic sources, many of which are quite exotic and creative (the burning piano comes to mind).

Now I'm not saying you couldn't rival Omnisphere's power if you carefully handpicked the right software; but I'll stick with my earlier comment that you could spend $500 on a crop of soft synths, and they still wouldn't be likely to equal Omnisphere's range.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## bill5

I can't disagree too strongly as again I haven't used Omnisphere, but I remain skeptical. Where is that demo...


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> I was interested to read so much negative stuff for 8dio. I have been eying some of their Intimate Studio stuff and the Fire sax/trumpet, but there’s not much out there on them (except for praise for Intimate Studio Strings) I have been watching the daily sales, but nothing so far has interested me. I guess I should proceed with caution with their stuff.
> 
> So far I haven’t had too many misses, but one regret that comes to mind is Orange Tree’s archtop guitar (I forget the actual name). It sounds amazing in the demos, but I haven’t been able to get anything as good from it. It’s probably me that’s to blame, but my impression is that it’s not easy to get good results. I really like their Passion Flute though and their Pure Jazz Vibes isn’t bad either.


Fire Sax is really good! I've been using it a bunch on a recent project and I've been pleasantly surprised with the results. Takes some programming work to get the best results out of it, but I'd say that applies to nearly any sampled solo instrument, especially ones meant for playing such complex and upbeat parts. I haven't had the opportunity to use Fire Trumpet yet, but I'm assuming it's a similar story there.


----------



## Geoff Grace

bill5 said:


> I can't disagree too strongly as again I haven't used Omnisphere, but I remain skeptical. Where is that demo...



Yeah, that's a problem. I'm not sure how they'd demo a 60+ GB product.

I realize I'm guilty of steering this thread off-topic, but I'll ask one more indulgence. I found a video that gives an example of the process Spectrasonics uses to incorporate some of the unusual sample content I mentioned in the following quote:


Geoff Grace said:


> Omnisphere's sample content also contains a long list of acoustic sources, many of which are quite exotic and creative (the burning piano comes to mind).



And here it is:



Best,

Geoff


----------



## Zanshin

I had Omnisphere, it was a bit of a impulse buy based on hype on this forum lol.

I sold it.

It has a like a million presets, there was a few I liked. But I have a Moog Subsequent 37 and VI synths like Serum for example that I like more than the synth parts of Omnisphere. For the hybrid stuff, none of it sounded as good to me as the hybrid options I have from Heavyocity for example.

I know it's well loved. I don't think it's for everyone.


----------



## kgdrum

This is an awesome video on Omnisphere 2.5


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Fire Sax is really good! I've been using it a bunch on a recent project and I've been pleasantly surprised with the results. Takes some programming work to get the best results out of it, but I'd say that applies to nearly any sampled solo instrument, especially ones meant for playing such complex and upbeat parts. I haven't had the opportunity to use Fire Trumpet yet, but I'm assuming it's a similar story there.



Thanks very much. That’s good to know. Those are priced so affordably that I think they would be a good place to jump in to try out 8dio without being too concerned about getting burned.

I was thinking about starting with the solo tenor, since it sounded really good here:


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

The solo tenor is also alright, I haven’t yet had an opportunity to really use it to its potential. The fire sax, though, if you need something that sounds boisterous and out of control, it will definitely get you there.


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow

Sarah Mancuso said:


> The solo tenor is also alright, I haven’t yet had an opportunity to really use it to its potential. The fire sax, though, if you need something that sounds boisterous and out of control, it will definitely get you there.



Thanks. I’ll start with the Fire ones. Do you know if the sample technology is the same for Fire Sax and Solo Tenor?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Thanks. I’ll start with the Fire ones. Do you know if the sample technology is the same for Fire Sax and Solo Tenor?


They run on different engines and behave pretty differently. Either one will take some CC automation and keyswitching to get the best results out of.


----------



## VSriHarsha

el-bo said:


> Omnisphere is an extremely powerful instrument that comes packed with an enormously diverse quantity of top-quality source material. However, ultimately, it's still just a tool. Whether or not it can produce compelling material is, as with any instrument, down to the vision and skill of the composer.


It’s worth buying, I guess.


----------



## kgdrum

@8Dio Productions 

Or any users

What I’m not clear on are the Fire Sax,Fire Trumpet and any other of the 8dio horns also included in The Bible of Latin Salsa ?

Thanks


----------



## bill5

Geoff Grace said:


> Yeah, that's a problem. I'm not sure how they'd demo a 60+ GB product.


Why is that a problem? Take the existing program and tweak it so it times out in some way. Many others have done this. Being 60 GB shouldn't make it any harder. Oh well.


----------



## kgdrum

bill5 said:


> Why is that a problem? Take the existing program and tweak it so it times out in some way. Many others have done this. Being 60 GB shouldn't make it any harder. Oh well.




lol are you serious? That’s a ton of bandwidth and data Spectrasonics would absorb the cost of maintaining just for demos not even mentioning the potential security Issues.

It’s OK if Spectrasonics product line,marketing,pricing and business approach don’t meet your standards,Spectrasonics will have to try to get by with the thousands of happy Omnisphere customers that already have and love it and never had a demo 💐


----------



## SupremeFist

Geoff Grace said:


> I might be skeptical too, if I didn't have years with Omnisphere under my belt.
> 
> Let me put it this way: I also have a great many soft synths, including Diva, Repro, BX_Oberhausen, Syntronik Deluxe, and Synth Anthology II, for starters. Some are sample-based synths and others are pure synths. The pure synths cover much of the same synthesizer ground that Omnisphere does, but they don't have its sample content. The sample-based synths are derived from many of the same sources that Omnisphere uses, but they're limited to traditional synths, while Omnisphere's sample content also contains a long list of acoustic sources, many of which are quite exotic and creative (the burning piano comes to mind).
> 
> Now I'm not saying you couldn't rival Omnisphere's power if you carefully handpicked the right software; but I'll stick with my earlier comment that you could spend $500 on a crop of soft synths, and they still wouldn't be likely to equal Omnisphere's range.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


I don't have Omnisphere but from listening to quite a lot of demos it seems to me that for pure VA synthesis u-he, bx_oberhausen, Monark etc sound better. Meantime I have digital/granular synthesis covered with things like Massive X and Straylight etc. Maybe some people prefer one big tool that does it all and others prefer specialist ones?


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

kgdrum said:


> @8Dio Productions
> 
> Or any users
> 
> What I’m not clear on are the Fire Sax,Fire Trumpet and any other of the 8dio horns also included in The Bible of Latin Salsa ?
> 
> Thanks


Volume 3 includes the fire sax, fire trumpet, and fire trombone.


----------



## ag75

Zanshin said:


> I had Omnisphere, it was a bit of a impulse buy based on hype on this forum lol.
> 
> I sold it.
> 
> It has a like a million presets, there was a few I liked. But I have a Moog Subsequent 37 and VI synths like Serum for example that I like more than the synth parts of Omnisphere. For the hybrid stuff, none of it sounded as good to me as the hybrid options I have from Heavyocity for example.
> 
> I know it's well loved. I don't think it's for everyone.


You’re wrong! Tar and feather! Tar and feather! 😂


----------



## Peter Williams

VSriHarsha said:


> It’s worth buying, I guess.


Yes, the best at what it does, which is mostly pretty retro sounding stuff now. It's great, but it's way past time for the thing to go on sale, and I mean significantly.


----------



## Geoff Grace

SupremeFist said:


> I don't have Omnisphere but from listening to quite a lot of demos it seems to me that for pure VA synthesis u-he, bx_oberhausen, Monark etc sound better. Meantime I have digital/granular synthesis covered with things like Massive X and Straylight etc. Maybe some people prefer one big tool that does it all and others prefer specialist ones?


Yes, and still others prefer to have both. There are times that I too would rather use those choices for VA synthesis. I see it like buying multiple orchestral libraries: there's no VI or library that's always the perfect fit for every piece or for everyone. That's why it's good to have options.

Despite how it may sound, I'm not trying to push Omnisphere on anyone. I just rejected the notion that it was foolhardy to spend $500 on it and went on to say that, in fact, I thought it was a good value considering how comprehensive it was. YMMV.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## drews

Geoff Grace said:


> Yes, and still others prefer to have both. There are times that I too would rather use those choices for VA synthesis. I see it like buying multiple orchestral libraries: there's no VI or library that's always the perfect fit for every piece or for everyone. That's why it's good to have options.
> 
> Despite how it may sound, I'm not trying to push Omnisphere on anyone. I just rejected the notion that it was foolhardy to spend $500 on it and went on to say that, in fact, I thought it was a good value considering how comprehensive it was. YMMV.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


The truth is nobody is buying omnisphere as an all-in-one, if you're spending $500 of a software synth then you probably have a few others too. What omnisphere excels in imo is being an actual instrument in your toolkit. It definitely takes longer than u-he or bx_oberhausen to get that "killer" sound from a preset. But no software synth imo can touch its sound design potential, even i load up omnisphere for most of my sound design instead oh my moog one. 

Lets say you need a good basis for some background ambience, you can type in whatever keyword and 5 out of the first 10 in the list on omni will be amazing for sound design and they'll all be something very usable.


----------



## VSriHarsha

Peter Williams said:


> Yes, the best at what it does, which is mostly pretty retro sounding stuff now. It's great, but it's way past time for the thing to go on sale, and I mean significantly.


Oh ok!


----------



## jononotbono

jamessy said:


> Would this current sale probably not come around again on BF?



Maybe. I have no idea what happens in these sales. But I've already paid $479 for Jaeger. Why would I want to pay another $400 during BF to get a bundle that includes Jaeger?

Anyway, all is fine. I've accepted the unfairness of life many years ago.


----------



## el-bo

VSriHarsha said:


> It’s worth buying, I guess.



For many, absolutely so. It ain't gonna be for everyone, however.


----------



## bill5

kgdrum said:


> lol are you serious? That’s a ton of bandwidth and data Spectrasonics would absorb the cost of maintaining just for demos not even mentioning the potential security Issues.


If you mean bandwidth in a literal sense i.e. taken up on their web site from people downloading, that's a good point...but they could easily mitigate that by offering just a small number of presets vs a billion, which I think would shrink the overall download size considerably. Might be other ways to shrink it further. Don't know you mean by "security issues" or how offering a demo would increase such issues.



> It’s OK if Spectrasonics product line,marketing,pricing and business approach don’t meet your standards,Spectrasonics will have to try to get by with the thousands of happy Omnisphere customers that already have and love it and never had a demo 💐


Whatever


----------



## acepromarks

nilblo said:


> NI Symphony Series. Strings. Auto divisi. Doesn´t sound realistic at all. 60 players playing two notes sounds like 120 players. Some serious cloning going on?



The auto divisi only works on string sections, not the entire ensemble of 60 players. And it sounds pretty realistic if you use it right. In all of my mock ups and personal work, it sounded very close to the original.


----------



## VSriHarsha

On the other hand, don’t you think you got more than what you bargained for? I mean 60 players playing 2 notes v 120 players playing 2 notes. Don’t you think that’s gigantic. I mean who doesn’t love that lushness in strings?


----------



## styledelk

bill5 said:


> If you mean bandwidth in a literal sense i.e. taken up on their web site from people downloading, that's a good point...but they could easily mitigate that by offering just a small number of presets vs a billion, which I think would shrink the overall download size considerably. Might be other ways to shrink it further. Don't know you mean by "security issues" or how offering a demo would increase such issues.
> 
> Whatever



Any timed demo will be cracked and pirated. Easily.


----------



## Michael Antrum

styledelk said:


> Any timed demo will be cracked and pirated. Easily.




Like VSL and East West ?


----------



## styledelk

Michael Antrum said:


> Like VSL and East West ?



Yes. They accept that risk, pass the increased cost to the customer one way or another, and also the increased cost of customer acquisition to them. Not all companies are the same or should and can and want to do the same thing.


----------



## bill5

styledelk said:


> Any timed demo will be cracked and pirated. Easily.


I haven't taken a poll, but seems to me there are plenty of timed demos out there and I'm not hearing about issues of being cracked...as for pirated, why would anyone pirate a demo when it's so easy to pirate the full version?


----------



## mcalis

pcarrilho said:


> Cinematic Studio Strings.. yes... maybe i am the only person who don't like it... but for me, sounds "synthetic"...


B L A S P H E M E R.


----------



## doctoremmet

pcarrilho said:


> Cinematic Studio Strings.. yes... maybe i am the only person who don't like it... but for me, sounds "synthetic"...


Or: H E R O W I T H O W N T A S T E


----------



## Kent

doctoremmet said:


> Or: H E R O W I T H O W N T A S T E




"He row it. How 'N' taste?"


----------



## styledelk

And back to things I regret buying:

Spitfire Studio Orchestra Core.

But things I don't regret buying:
Spitfire Studio Orchestra Pro.


----------



## VSriHarsha

styledelk said:


> And back to things I regret buying:
> 
> Spitfire Studio Orchestra Core.
> 
> But things I don't regret buying:
> Spitfire Studio Orchestra Pro.


That makes sense.


----------



## robgb

I've probably already answered this thread, but I'll say it again: Albion One. I didn't realize it was so wet. I also didn't consider the limitations of combined ensembles. I keep going back to it, hoping to prove myself wrong, but it's just not my cup of tea. My only use for it now, if at all, is layering. I'd rather get a refund.


----------



## pcarrilho

mcalis said:


> B L A S P H E M E R.




???


----------



## mcalis

pcarrilho said:


> ???


It was a joke


----------



## doctoremmet

kmaster said:


> "He row it. How 'N' taste?"


Yeah! (owning it)


----------



## SupremeFist

robgb said:


> I've probably already answered this thread, but I'll say it again: Albion One. I didn't realize it was so wet. I also didn't consider the limitations of combined ensembles. I keep going back to it, hoping to prove myself wrong, but it's just not my cup of tea. My only use for it now, if at all, is layering. I'd rather get a refund.


Same here, although it doesn't have to be that wet if you use the distance slider? I really like that feature (and would have been more tempted by BBCSO Core if it had had it too), but yeah I failed to anticipate how restrictive and frustrating I would find trying to work with only ensemble patches...


----------



## robgb

SupremeFist said:


> Same here, although it doesn't have to be that wet if you use the distance slider? I really like that feature (and would have been more tempted by BBCSO Core if it had had it too), but yeah I failed to anticipate how restrictive and frustrating I would find trying to work with only ensemble patches...


The distance slider is really only a quick way to adjust the mic positions. But even "close" is still a lot wetter than I prefer. I much prefer the drier Studio core series, which blends quite well with Albion.


----------



## Pier

robgb said:


> I've probably already answered this thread, but I'll say it again: Albion One. I didn't realize it was so wet. I also didn't consider the limitations of combined ensembles. I keep going back to it, hoping to prove myself wrong, but it's just not my cup of tea. My only use for it now, if at all, is layering. I'd rather get a refund.



Same here. Albion One is one of my biggest regrets.

It was the first expensive orchestral library that I bought without really knowing what I wanted/needed and it was a mistake. For $450 there are many products that offer so much more value (Nucleus, Berlin Inspire, etc). I wouldn't recommend it even for $200.


----------



## dylanmixer

I'm surprised at the lack of Omnisphere love on here. It has been my go to for soundscapes, sound design, and any other synth needs in my film scores for a while now.


----------



## robgb

dylanmixer said:


> I'm surprised at the lack of Omnisphere love on here. It has been my go to for soundscapes, sound design, and any other synth needs in my film scores for a while now.


I was an Atmosphere user and loved it. Then I bought a new computer and it would no longer work, now considered obsolete. They offered me an upgrade at a price to Omnisphere but I wasn't interested. I just wanted my damn Atmosphere to work. Annoys me that they stop supporting older apps.


----------



## midichap

The Orchestra and Master Solo Winds, I am so glad I got them in deals.


----------



## mcalis

So, this may sound disingenuous but I don't actually have any regrets. Maybe slight disappointments, or stuff that I don't use as frequently, but no hard "I wish I had my money back" type of regrets.

First and foremost, I've gotten some use out of almost every library and the few ones that I really haven't used all that much were ones I got for <$10 like the 8dioboe and some sonivox stuff. The one library that I, for lack of a better word, "outgrew" was action strings, which I was able to resell. On the software/plugin side of things: MIR24 didn't really work for me and I was able to resell that too.

So whilst Mural vol 2, Cinematic Strings 2, some of the Sonivox Orchestral Companion stuff, and a couple of indie libraries (Dream Zither, Wave Runner horns) sit mostly unused, I don't regret having them.

The one that comes closest to regret, but which I don't actually regret because I know I can make it work, is Berlin Woodwinds Revive. I've just gotten very spoiled with the CSS/CSB workflow and the _only_ sane way to work with BWWR is to have one-track-per-articulation because _still_ there are wild inconsistencies between the relative volumes of articulations. After half a decade of using mostly EW, I was trying to get away from one-track-per-articulation, and now BWWR is dragging me back!

Anyway, that's not really regret though. More just mild annoyance at having to go through every articulation of every instrument and balance them (and volume boost them to hell, BWWR is very quiet out of the box).

The good news is that I know setting this thing up will be worth it in the end, but boy oh boy if you thought it was a pain to work with EW's hollywood series, BWW will really drive you up the wall.

EDIT: this may sound silly, but what really helps against GAS and impulsive purchases (and therefore regrets by extension) is to watch walkthroughs or audio demos of products you already have. I think someone else already said that somewhere in here? I think the regrets come from thinking that if you just have this one library, suddenly and magically all your music will be elevated to "The Next Level", whatever that may be. So you buy the thing on a whim, play around with it, maybe have a bit of a honeymoon phase, and then after a couple of days the "newness" of it all has worn of and you're left with Yet Another Sample Library eating up GBs of space on your disk.

I think that's where most of the regrets come from. From thinking that a couple hundred bucks can make all your musical woes go away.


----------



## tjr

Have truly regretted very little along these lines. As I have gotten better at composing/arranging/mixing, I have bought better and better libraries, but needed to start somewhere.

The main true regrets are any (and I have bought several) solo tenor saxophone VI's, hoping that it would really sound convincing in my use cases. They almost always sound good in some instances, but that seems to be a really tough instrument to totally (or even mostly) get right in samples.


----------



## Kony

robgb said:


> I was an Atmosphere user and loved it. Then I bought a new computer and it would no longer work, now considered obsolete. They offered me an upgrade at a price to Omnisphere but I wasn't interested. I just wanted my damn Atmosphere to work. Annoys me that they stop supporting older apps.


Aren't all of the Atmosphere patches in Omnisphere though?


----------



## shponglefan

Kony said:


> Aren't all of the Atmosphere patches in Omnisphere though?



Can confirm, they are.


----------



## robgb

Kony said:


> Aren't all of the Atmosphere patches in Omnisphere though?


Probably. I'm cheap. And even cheaper when I get annoyed.


----------



## easyrider

robgb said:


> Probably. I'm cheap. And even cheaper when I get annoyed.



Missed opportunity to own ,if not, the best software power synth in the world after already paying for atmosphere...that is now dead.

Makes no sense...


----------



## shponglefan

robgb said:


> I was an Atmosphere user and loved it. Then I bought a new computer and it would no longer work, now considered obsolete. They offered me an upgrade at a price to Omnisphere but I wasn't interested. I just wanted my damn Atmosphere to work. Annoys me that they stop supporting older apps.



In fairness, I don't know if it's reasonable to expect a company to support a product indefinitely. Especially since Atmosphere is 18 years old at this point.

And Spectrasonics hasn't exactly pushed many new products over the years. Between Atmosphere to Omnisphere to Omnisphere 2, that's only 3 paid product releases/upgrades in a 13 year span.

At least they're not pushing paid updates every single year like some other companies (*cough*Izotope*cough*).


----------



## el-bo

shponglefan said:


> Can confirm, they are.



Yup! And they're still great!


----------



## MarcHedenberg

I hope Daniel James isn't reading this thread. I'm going to have the say Project Alpha and Bravo, ironically so actually because I find them both great, especially in terms of the interface. I just didn't realise until I had delved deeper into the ABC bundle that I personally only really needed Chaos for importing and tweaking my own samples. The sale price was so good that I didn't see the downside to buying the whole bundle, but for what I'm using it for, Alpha and Bravo are a bit redundant next to the other synth plugins I own. 

But yeah, Project Chaos is the tits. Go buy that.


----------



## Mike Greene

robgb said:


> I was an Atmosphere user and loved it. Then I bought a new computer and it would no longer work, now considered obsolete. They offered me an upgrade at a price to Omnisphere but I wasn't interested. I just wanted my damn Atmosphere to work. Annoys me that they stop supporting older apps.


In Spectrasonics' defense, Atmosphere ran on the original UVI sample player, which stopped working when Apple went from PPC to Intel. So they chose that time to develop their own engine.

Little side story - They released Omnisphere at NAMM, but it was a big mystery at the time what the name would be. Except ... another developer told me ahead of time what it would be. How did he know? His company was also releasing a new product and by freak coincidence, they wanted to call it Omnisphere, so in the process of applying for a trademark, they discovered the name was already taken by ... Eric Persing!


----------



## Mucusman

mcalis said:


> this may sound silly, but what really helps against GAS and impulsive purchases (and therefore regrets by extension) is to watch walkthroughs or audio demos of products you already have.


I've recently started doing exactly that. And it's helpful. But it is also revealing in that the majority of videos are initial walkthroughs by people not that experienced in using the library. There's a notable lack of videos that really help one maximize a library. I don't have the time, inclination, or even expertise to create such videos, but that's an untapped genre, in my opinion. You'd think those most qualified would be the developers themselves, but I imagine such things don't generate much revenue, so it's not on their agenda. (I will say that Mike's promo for Realivox Blue gets closest to this in explaining _why _he chooses to work with the library in a certain way. That's a taste of what I think is missing in general across the board. The recent EastWest videos are also a positive step in this direction.)


----------



## ism

robgb said:


> The distance slider is really only a quick way to adjust the mic positions. But even "close" is still a lot wetter than I prefer. I much prefer the drier Studio core series, which blends quite well with Albion.



It’s not just that the close isn’t particularly dry, it’s also that, as Paul (or possibly Christian) said in a recent video, the close mics are there to augemnt the tree mics, which properly capture the ambient of the room. No engineer would ever record in AIR just for the close mics.

I love the AIR sound, and think it Has a quality that is completely and utterly irreproduceable with plugins on dry recordings. 

But year, don‘t buy Albion One for the dryness of the close mics.


----------



## SupremeFist

tjr said:


> The main true regrets are any (and I have bought several) solo tenor saxophone VI's, hoping that it would really sound convincing in my use cases. They almost always sound good in some instances, but that seems to be a really tough instrument to totally (or even mostly) get right in samples.


Maybe it's partly because I play tenor, but that seems to be the instrument that is least plausible with samples today.


----------



## robgb

Mike Greene said:


> In Spectrasonics' defense, Atmosphere ran on the original UVI sample player, which stopped working when Apple went from PPC to Intel. So they chose that time to develop their own engine.


I was using it on a PC.


----------



## robgb

ism said:


> It’s not just that the close isn’t particularly dry, it’s also that, as Paul (or possibly Christian) said in a recent video, the close mics are there to augemnt the tree mics, which properly capture the ambient of the room. No engineer would ever record in AIR just for the close mics.


Unlike you and others, I'm not impressed by the ambience of AIR, and I've been a bit annoyed by the (now well-established) trend away from drier samples to those full of room ambience. I was sorry to see VSL jump on board. Yes, the library sounds better out of the box, but that doesn't interest me. What if I want a different room? What if I want very little room? Albion One is a case of you get what you get and you'd better like it.



shponglefan said:


> In fairness, I don't know if it's reasonable to expect a company to support a product indefinitely. Especially since Atmosphere is 18 years old at this point.



I'm pretty sure it was only a couple years and a computer change before Atmosphere stopped working, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Chungus

Mucusman said:


> You'd think those most qualified would be the developers themselves, but I imagine such things don't generate much revenue, so it's not on their agenda. (I will say that Mike's promo for Realivox Blue gets closest to this in explaining _why _he chooses to work with the library in a certain way. That's a taste of what I think is missing in general across the board. The recent EastWest videos are also a positive step in this direction.)


ImpactSoundworks did tutorial videos like this for their Shreddage guitars. Something I'm very happy for.


----------



## shponglefan

robgb said:


> I'm pretty sure it was only a couple years and a computer change before Atmosphere stopped working, but I could be wrong.



Omnisphere originally came out in 2008, so that is at least 6 years between those products.

They also still offer an upgrade path from Atmosphere to Omnisphere 2 for only $250. Which considering you'd be going from ~3.6GB of sounds in Atmosphere to the full >60 GB Omnisphere 2 library is a helluva deal in my opinion.


----------



## jamessy

Chungus said:


> ImpactSoundworks did tutorial videos like this for their Shreddage guitars. Something I'm very happy for.



Are those good? They seem reasonably priced.


----------



## Cheezus

jamessy said:


> Are those good? They seem reasonably priced.


I have the Hydra and Precision and would definitely recommend them.


----------



## Kony

shponglefan said:


> Can confirm, they are.


That's what I thought.


----------



## Pier

robgb said:


> Unlike you and others, I'm not impressed by the ambience of AIR, and I've been a bit annoyed by the (now well-established) trend away from drier samples to those full of room ambience. I was sorry to see VSL jump on board. Yes, the library sounds better out of the box, but that doesn't interest me. What if I want a different room? What if I want very little room? Albion One is a case of you get what you get and you'd better like it.



Another issue I've found (regardless of whether you like AIR or not) is that Albion One doesn't gel well with other non-Spitfire libraries.

I don't own any other Spitfire ensemble libraries so I can't say how well it works with those.


----------



## shponglefan

Pier said:


> Another issue I've found (regardless of whether you like AIR or not) is that Albion One doesn't gel well with other non-Spitfire libraries.
> 
> I don't own any other Spitfire ensemble libraries so I can't say how well it works with those.



I've used Albion ONE in conjunction with Spitfire's Symphonic libraries and those work well together. Which would be expected since they're all recorded in the same hall.


----------



## bill5

shponglefan said:


> Omnisphere originally came out in 2008, so that is at least 6 years between those products.
> 
> They also still offer an upgrade path from Atmosphere to Omnisphere 2 for only $250. Which considering you'd be going from ~3.6GB of sounds in Atmosphere to the full >60 GB Omnisphere 2 library is a helluva deal in my opinion.


Unless he has no use for or interest in all that extra stuff, in which case it's a terrible deal.


----------



## shponglefan

bill5 said:


> Unless he has no use for or interest in all that extra stuff, in which case it's a terrible deal.



I'd find that legitimately hard to believe.


----------



## bill5

I'm not surprised.


----------



## Chungus

jamessy said:


> Are those good? They seem reasonably priced.


I don't have any other electric guitar libraries, so I can't compare them. But I also feel no need to get anything else of this sort.

So, yes. They are good.


----------



## decredis

jamessy said:


> Are those good? They seem reasonably priced.


Great tone and articulations, and automatic strumming is handy, but for some reason I find them less playable for leads (as in, a natural sounding line) than either Orangetree or Amplesound. Might just be a personal thing.

EDIT: I don't actively regret getting Serpent and Precision, but I find (with OT's Roundwound, Texas Twang, and Rock Standard, and AS's AGM, ABP, and ABA) I don't turn to them very often.

Precision's low notes are especially juicy, and I'd probably hold on to it just for that timbre.


----------



## Peter Williams

robgb said:


> I've probably already answered this thread, but I'll say it again: Albion One. I didn't realize it was so wet. I also didn't consider the limitations of combined ensembles. I keep going back to it, hoping to prove myself wrong, but it's just not my cup of tea. My only use for it now, if at all, is layering. I'd rather get a refund.


I've felt that way for quite a while. I don't see how anyone could use it for its stated purpose as an all in one product. But I keep coming back to it for a number of things that it does well, which is how many libraries are for me. I agree that layering is a technique that it is good for. It is more of a collection of characteristic grouped sound colors than an orchestral library, and the ambient sound really limits the usefulness, even when you just use the close mikes.


----------



## jamessy

decredis said:


> Great tone and articulations, and automatic strumming is handy, but for some reason I find them less playable for leads (as in, a natural sounding line) than either Orangetree or Amplesound. Might just be a personal thing.
> 
> EDIT: I don't actively regret getting Serpent and Precision, but I find (with OT's Roundwound, Texas Twang, and Rock Standard, and AS's AGM, ABP, and ABA) I don't turn to them very often.
> 
> Precision's low notes are especially juicy, and I'd probably hold on to it just for that timbre.



Oh man there's way more out there than I realized. Thanks for the heads up


----------



## Kevperry777

pcarrilho said:


> Cinematic Studio Strings.. yes... maybe i am the only person who don't like it... but for me, sounds "synthetic"...



I’ll go with another gold cow....Spitfire Chamber Strings. 

I didn’t buy them on sale so it was a chunk of change...but I don’t nearly use them enough. And in fact I really enjoy Neo strings for that type of sound. I can get 90% of that chamber sound I’m looking for when I need it.....easy to work with and get to great results quickly.


----------



## easyrider

Kevperry777 said:


> I’ll go with another gold cow....Spitfire Chamber Strings.
> 
> I didn’t buy them on sale so it was a chunk of change...but I don’t nearly use them enough. And in fact I really enjoy Neo strings for that type of sound. I can get 90% of that chamber sound I’m looking for when I need it.....easy to work with and get to great results quickly.



This is why sample libraries are purely subjective, Chamber Strings from Spitfire is sublime imo


----------



## robgb

shponglefan said:


> Omnisphere originally came out in 2008, so that is at least 6 years between those products.
> 
> They also still offer an upgrade path from Atmosphere to Omnisphere 2 for only $250.


I'm talking about the time between when I first had it and when it stopped working, leaving me with a pile of useless but very pretty discs. And $250 is a lot of money. ( Especially in 2008, when it still mattered) But, hey, I didn't mean for this to become such a drawn out topic. I'll move on, if everyone else will.


----------



## Sunny Schramm

"Alev Lenz - 3" from Spitfire. 

Its a cheap library for sure which made me curious from the artist-walkthrough. I dont think I will ever use it - maybe one or two of the drones but for that I have other tools. But I like some of her music very much - so I see it as support 😉


----------



## IFM

This is an older thread but I think I'm having my first regret. MODUS from OT. Maybe it's my dislike of the Sine player but I haven't really found anything useful in this library yet. At this point wish I could sell it.


----------



## Pier

IFM said:


> This is an older thread but I think I'm having my first regret. MODUS from OT. Maybe it's my dislike of the Sine player but I haven't really found anything useful in this library yet. At this point wish I could sell it.


I was going to get OT Amber strings but I didn't do it because of the Sine player.

Instead, I ended up getting the deep Cello and Violin from 8Dio which I kinda regret. For the sale price of $50 each it wasn't too bad. I'm sure I will get something out of those, but I'd be very annoyed if I had paid full price.

The sound is very raw and the library work is a sloppy. The transitions between layers is abrupt. Sometimes the recording between notes is not at the same pan position. Stuff like that.

I should have invested those $100 in getting the contemporary cello from Xsample. Better to have one good library than 2 mediocre ones. Oh well.


----------



## Evans

Interesting thread! Sensitive topic, but it seems there are few libraries that have _no_ happy customers.

That said, my main goofs:

*Spitfire Audio Kepler* - _Awesome _concept, but using it for me is simply not fun, inspiring, or good on my resources.


*8dio Century Brass 2.0* - I bought it on sale during a brass craze when I had a lot of time for hobbyist writing. It's the _only _brass-focused release I've picked up that hasn't made it through to an export even once. It just doesn't fit for me regarding workflow and sound.


----------



## Robert_G

Evans said:


> *8dio Century Brass 2.0* - I bought it on sale during a brass craze when I had a lot of time for hobbyist writing. It's the _only _brass-focused release I've picked up that hasn't made it through to an export even once. It just doesn't fit for me regarding workflow and sound.


What's wrong with you?


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Majestica.
The lack of a close mic is worse than I could ever have imagined.


----------



## Evans

Robert_G said:


> What's wrong with you?


Where would you like to start?


----------



## Tremendouz

Uiroo said:


> United Strings of Europe, just bought it because it was on sale. But I have SSS, SCS and Soarings Strings, and while these three sound different, USOE just sounds worse in my ears.
> 
> I wish I could sell it, I would even gift it to anyone who doesn't have the money.


I know this is an old message and all but in case you're not aware, Auddict actually allows license transfers but you need to host the library yourself so the buyer can download it.


----------



## Robert_G

Evans said:


> Where would you like to start?


Ok. I'm not saying it should be everyone's favorite brass library, but you're a rare one here to absolutely hate it. It has everything and does everything a brass library should do.


----------



## Tremendouz

Robert_G said:


> Ok. I'm not saying it should be everyone's favorite brass library, but you're a rare one here to absolutely hate it. It has everything and does everything a brass library should do.


I'm not the person you were asking, but what often stops me from using Century Brass is the fact that there doesn't seem to be a way to create a sustained note with an accented beginning except by layering 2 patches. There are those short and medium marcatos and whatever but they just never seem to be the right length. So, instead I grab the marcato patch from CSB and enable the attack overlay.

Am I just missing something?


----------



## Mr Sakitumi

I regret these 3 *SPITFIRE AUDIO ORIG!NALS:*
-Epic Strings
-Epic Brass & Woodwinds
-Felt Piano

(I found the free BBC Discover, which I got shortly afterwards to be even better tonally and more inspiring to use.
I also never gelled with Felt Piano, even the LABS Soft Piano was more useable for me as well as the free Westwood Upright Felt Piano )

However, I really do like the Originals Intimate Strings.


----------



## Evans

Robert_G said:


> but you're a rare one here to absolutely hate it


I didn't say anything _*close *_to "absolutely hate it."

To clarify, it's not that it's irredeemable. I regret it because I paid for it but haven't used it because I prefer other libraries. The combination of its positives and quirks don't put it above my other libraries that have their own positives and quirks.

Granted, I didn't offer much detail in my post, but I didn't think you could jump to "absolutely hate" from my words above.

With that said, I also don't at all see how "it has everything and does everything a brass library should do." I won't at all fault it for things that aren't "on the box," but it's not as if there aren't far more _comprehensive _brass offerings with more techniques and wider range. Maybe for higher prices, maybe with wildly different halls, maybe with completely different playability. But ain't nothin' perfect.


----------



## Robert_G

Tremendouz said:


> I'm not the person you were asking, but what often stops me from using Century Brass is the fact that there doesn't seem to be a way to create a sustained note with an accented beginning except by layering 2 patches. There are those short and medium marcatos and whatever but they just never seem to be the right length. So, instead I grab the marcato patch from CSB and enable the attack overlay.
> 
> Am I just missing something?


So I went and had a listen to what you are talking about. It is true that there isn't really any accent at the beginning of a sustain note...so I'm thinking the reason it doesn't bother me is because I rarely if ever start a pronounced line with a sustained note for brass. It will almost always be a legato note (which 8Dio does really well). If I start with a sustain note(s), I'm probably using an arc which 8dio Century does well, or I'll make my own with the mod wheel, but I'm usually starting with lower dynamics either way (which wouldn't highlight an accent anyway), and a starting sustained note is usually not the main feature of the line anyways.

I then tried CSB too which does accent the start of a sustain note. So glad I have both libraries. Both are fantastic even though they are very different from each other. They are different enough that I find certain arrangements actually call for one or the other. Again...both fantastic libraries.


----------



## Tremendouz

Robert_G said:


> So I went and had a listen to what you are talking about. It is true that there isn't really any accent at the beginning of a sustain note...so I'm thinking the reason it doesn't bother me is because I rarely if ever start a pronounced line with a sustained note for brass. It will almost always be a legato note (which 8Dio does really well). If I start with a sustain note(s), I'm probably using an arc which 8dio Century does well, or I'll make my own with the mod wheel, but I'm usually starting with lower dynamics either way (which wouldn't highlight an accent anyway), and a starting sustained note is usually not the main feature of the line anyways.
> 
> I then tried CSB too which does accent the start of a sustain note. So glad I have both libraries. Both are fantastic even though they are very different from each other. They are different enough that I find certain arrangements actually call for one or the other. Again...both fantastic libraries.


I should've been clearer, I'm talking about writing something like the horns are doing here: 

So, fairly long notes that have a strong attack. If I just used the sustains or legatos to emulate the melody here, it'd sound too mellow


----------



## Trash Panda

Majestica and Lacrimosa. Basically won’t buy another 8dio library after those. Much better options for cheaper without waiting for a gimmicky sale.


----------



## Tremendouz

Trash Panda said:


> Majestica and Lacrimosa. Basically won’t buy another 8dio library after those. Much better options for cheaper without waiting for a gimmicky sale.


I agree about Majestica, but what other choir libraries are there for $100-130 that have both male and female legatos, staccatos, multiwovels and all that? I did some research and Lacrimosa seemed like the best bang for the buck for an epic choir with lots of variety (despite not necessarily being the best at anything)


----------



## Trash Panda

Tremendouz said:


> I agree about Majestica, but what other choir libraries are there for $100-130 that have both male and female legatos, staccatos, multiwovels and all that? I did some research and Lacrimosa seemed like the best bang for the buck for an epic choir with lots of variety (despite not necessarily being the best at anything)


My big issue with Lacrimosa is lack of consistency across notes within the same patches. Some will sound perfect and the next note out of nowhere on the same dynamic layer will have all the altos and sopranos going full opera.

Attack timing varies quite a bit too. One note on a syllable is an instant on attack and another in the same dynamic layer has a fade in attack.

Also, the standard price is usually $598. I’d rather go with Storm Choir Ultimate at that price. If we’re comparing deep sale prices, Oceania 1 and 2 win by a landslide.


----------



## Robert_G

Tremendouz said:


> I should've been clearer, I'm talking about writing something like the horns are doing here:
> 
> So, fairly long notes that have a strong attack. If I just used the sustains or legatos to emulate the melody here, it'd sound too mellow



Ok. I listened to that. I think you could do that pretty easy with Century brass. A lot of those lines where you say you don't want to use the legato you could instead use the 'soaring' articulations. They have a nice bite to them...and they transition pretty nice considering they aren't legatos. Personally, I think you could make the actual legatos work for the melody, but that's just me.


----------



## Tremendouz

Robert_G said:


> Ok. I listened to that. I think you could do that pretty easy with Century brass. A lot of those lines where you say you don't want to use the legato you could instead use the 'soaring' articulations. They have a nice bite to them...and they transition pretty nice considering they aren't legatos. Personally, I think you could make the actual legatos work for the melody, but that's just me.


Thanks, the soaring articulations seem to have more "bold" attack than the legatos and sustains.


----------



## Tremendouz

Trash Panda said:


> My big issue with Lacrimosa is lack of consistency across notes within the same patches. Some will sound perfect and the next note out of nowhere on the same dynamic layer will have all the altos and sopranos going full opera.
> 
> Attack timing varies quite a bit too. One note on a syllable is an instant on attack and another in the same dynamic layer has a fade in attack.
> 
> Also, the standard price is usually $598. I’d rather go with Storm Choir Ultimate at that price. If we’re comparing deep sale prices, Oceania 1 and 2 win by a landslide.


Yeah, it's not a super polished library by any means but it does the trick for me.

I never consider the standard prices since MSRPs are usually a joke in the industry, I usually take into account only the lowest repeated sale prices. No one should be buying 8dio stuff at MSRP unless they're in a serious hurry! 

I'll have to check out Oceanias but I had the impression they dont have legato.


----------



## Robert_G

Trash Panda said:


> Majestica and Lacrimosa. Basically won’t buy another 8dio library after those. Much better options for cheaper without waiting for a gimmicky sale.


Agree on those 2 libs, but I wouldn't judge 8Dio just on them....especially Majestica....possibly the worst of their big libraries. 8Dio has some really good stuff.


----------



## rampant

I have a few regrets...

*EastWest Complete Composers Collection* - never really used RA, Gypsy, Goliath, Ministry of Rock... _but_ Storm Drum 2 is still a great library as is Quantum Leap Pianos

*Cinematic Studio Strings* - I really wanted to love it, the sound is phenomenal. But I didn't find it easy to work with, so I've stuck with Spitfire Chamber Strings Pro, Studio Strings Pro, and LASS

*Spitfire Albion V Tundra* - it's just not as good as having individual sections of instruments, but I do like some of the more esoteric longs for texture and tension

*Spitfire Solo Strings* - I don't find them particularly playable, nor the sound to be that good, which is a shame, because I love Chamber Strings Pro and Studio Strings Pro

*8Dio 1901 Studio Upright* - it sounds too harsh and I don't think I've ever been able to tame it, there are so many better piano VIs out there

*SoundIron Mars and Venus* - never used them, and when I built a new dedicated VEPro server machine, I didn't bother reinstalling them

*Embertone Chapman Trumpet and Epic Sax* - Embertone can make some incredible instruments, like JB Violin and Herring Clarinet, but Chapman Trumpet and Epic Sax are not two of them, in my humble opinion

*Modern Scoring Brass* - but _only_ because I paid the full intro price, and it was recently on sale for much, much less. I don't regret buying the library in the slightest, but I do regret not waiting for a big discount only a year later.


----------



## MaxOctane

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Majestica.
> The lack of a close mic is worse than I could ever have imagined.


Switch from external monitors to headphones. Then the mics will be as close as possible.

(_you're welcome_)


----------



## Pier

Tremendouz said:


> Yeah, it's not a super polished library by any means but it does the trick for me.


Is this common with 8Dio libraries?

The lack of polish is exactly why I regret buying the deep solo cello and violin.


----------



## Tremendouz

Pier said:


> Is this common with 8Dio libraries?
> 
> The lack of polish is exactly why I regret buying the deep solo cello and violin.


I would say so, but I don't have too many others to compare. They do have some great stuff as well, it's just that you have to find the gems among the sea of products of varying quality (they have a massive catalogue). For example, the Century Strings and Brass are often considered to be some of their better offerings, and I love their Claire Alto Flute for what it does (slow, lyrical lines).

EDIT: The best part: they have very deep sales even if some people might not like that approach (MSRPs are a joke at this point). For example I got the alto flute for $38 during a sale and that's not even the lowest it has been.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

rampant said:


> I have a few regrets...
> 
> *EastWest Complete Composers Collection* - never really used RA, Gypsy, Goliath, Ministry of Rock... _but_ Storm Drum 2 is still a great library as is Quantum Leap Pianos
> 
> *Cinematic Studio Strings* - I really wanted to love it, the sound is phenomenal. But I didn't find it easy to work with, so I've stuck with Spitfire Chamber Strings Pro, Studio Strings Pro, and LASS
> 
> *Spitfire Albion V Tundra* - it's just not as good as having individual sections of instruments, but I do like some of the more esoteric longs for texture and tension
> 
> *Spitfire Solo Strings* - I don't find them particularly playable, nor the sound to be that good, which is a shame, because I love Chamber Strings Pro and Studio Strings Pro
> 
> *8Dio 1901 Studio Upright* - it sounds too harsh and I don't think I've ever been able to tame it, there are so many better piano VIs out there
> 
> *SoundIron Mars and Venus* - never used them, and when I built a new dedicated VEPro server machine, I didn't bother reinstalling them
> 
> *Embertone Chapman Trumpet and Epic Sax* - Embertone can make some incredible instruments, like JB Violin and Herring Clarinet, but Chapman Trumpet and Epic Sax are not two of them, in my humble opinion
> 
> *Modern Scoring Brass* - but _only_ because I paid the full intro price, and it was recently on sale for much, much less. I don't regret buying the library in the slightest, but I do regret not waiting for a big discount only a year later.


So here are the libraries I have been on the fence of buying lately: Cinematic Studio Strings, Albion V, Spitfire Solo Strings, 1901 Upright, Modern Scoring Brass


----------



## mybadmemory

Regret might be a harch word, but neither Nucleus or Berlin Inspire suited me in terms of sound, and were both replaced by BBCSO. Not saying they’re bad at all, just not for me. The Originals haven’t gotten much use either but hard to regret for the prize.

Apart from BBCSO, I still really enjoy the sound of CineSymphony, which was my first library!


----------



## Living Fossil

Pier said:


> Is this common with 8Dio libraries?



I have to say that Century Brass and Lacrimosa are amongst my favorite libraries.
And i use Majestica a lot, it really has lots to offer.

However, i think some of the 8dio libraries simply have a learning curve. You can get fantastic results, but you have to invest some time in exploring how to use them (once you're there, they become very intuitive).

p.s. can't comment on the deep sampled solo strings, i don't have them.


----------



## ZeroZero

dzilizzi said:


> I really don't like synths sounds. And I don't have a lot of time to muck about with settings. It becomes noise way too quickly. I think what I was really hoping it would be is like Unify, which I should try out. I can use real instrument VI's (guitars, strings, marimba, etc) then have fun.


Checked out Unify synth, it's really interesting and has a trial version too. Don't give up on omnisphere its powerful - very powerful. I know what you mean about synth sounds, but if you add natural sounds to a synth and then distort this works well, for my ears. I need nature and dirt, pure wave mangling does not rock my boat.


----------



## AudioLoco

I can't believe anyone regrets getting British Drama.... Love that thing.

I regret buying:

Soniccouture Ondes (It's just utterly useless to me - uninstalled)
8DIO Majestica (At least the percussion gets some use...sometimes)
8Dio Bazanthar (case of dishonest demo, I have no use for it)
Kong Chinee Orchestra Lite (Got a refund on that one though...)

That's it I think...
I listen to demos and walkthrough as much as I can before buying, I never listen to the hype alone so luckily I didn't get many duds... so far


----------



## emilio_n

IFM said:


> This is an older thread but I think I'm having my first regret. MODUS from OT. Maybe it's my dislike of the Sine player but I haven't really found anything useful in this library yet. At this point wish I could sell it.


I understand you and I have the same feeling with Modus and with LA Sessions too. Both sound good, but at the moment I can’t use any of them...


----------



## dzilizzi

ZeroZero said:


> Checked out Unify synth, it's really interesting and has a trial version too. Don't give up on omnisphere its powerful - very powerful. I know what you mean about synth sounds, but if you add natural sounds to a synth and then distort this works well, for my ears. I need nature and dirt, pure wave mangling does not rock my boat.


I've made a few of my own sounds with Omnisphere. Don't get me wrong, it is great and can do a lot. Just for the price? There are better options out there for me. Like Unify - which I also own.


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

getting burned by OT glory days has made me so much more cognizant of how library demos are written around those libraries' limitations. thank you OT


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

ahorsewhocandrive said:


> getting burned by OT glory days has made me so much more cognizant of how library demos are written around those libraries' limitations. thank you OT


Can you elaborate on that? What exactly are the limitations of Glory Days?


----------



## Evans

I regret buying *Cubase*, because then I had a dongle and was able to easily try out VSL libraries.

I regret picking up the *VSL BBO percussion*, because it makes me want to buy all of the Synchron Percussion releases.

I regret picking up *VSL Dimension Strings*, because now I think I'd be happy with further Synchron-ized libraries and am at risk of using my remaining vouchers before Synchron Brass even gets announced.

I regret picking up *Cinematic Studio Strings* and later Cinematic Studio Brass, because then I pretty much had to buy Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.

I regret buying *EWHO Diamond*, because now I'm interested in SOUPUS even though I don't at all need it for work.


----------



## dzilizzi

Evans said:


> I regret buying *Cubase*, because then I had a dongle and was able to easily try out VSL libraries.
> 
> I regret picking up the *VSL BBO percussion*, because it makes me want to buy all of the Synchron Percussion releases.
> 
> I regret picking up *VSL Dimension Strings*, because now I think I'd be happy with further Synchron-ized libraries and am at risk of using my remaining vouchers before Synchron Brass even gets announced.
> 
> I regret picking up *Cinematic Studio Strings* and later Cinematic Studio Brass, because then I pretty much had to buy Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.
> 
> I regret buying *EWHO Diamond*, because now I'm interested in SOUPUS even though I don't at all need it for work.


They just suck you in, it is one big conspiracy.....


----------



## Tim_Wells

Wish I hadn't bought N. 

It's so overhyped on this forum.


----------



## mojamusic

Bollen said:


> Anything by 8dio...


I concur. I bought the solo sax and trumpet library... I know. I know... Also the Adagio Strings. I wish I hadn't.


----------



## dzilizzi

Tim_Wells said:


> Wish I hadn't bought N.
> 
> It's so overhyped on this forum.


Are you sure? It was such a great deal compared to the Flutes of Fire and it does it all. I really love N. There are days I think of dumping everything else and just filling my template with N.


----------



## daan1412

I've never bought a bad or disappointing library. But I regret buying Infinite Woodwinds. It just turns out I didn't need it... It's good and I appreciate the innovation, but I couldn't resist getting CSW afterwards and I like it more than IW. Even if CSW was delayed and came out later this year, I would be fine with the woodwinds in BBCSO, they're pretty solid. I hope to make use of it one day, though.


----------



## jbuhler

dzilizzi said:


> Are you sure? It was such a great deal compared to the Flutes of Fire and it does it all. I really love N. There are days I think of dumping everything else and just filling my template with N.


You should. A template of N is absolutely serene. You’ll forget you have any virtual instruments loaded at all.


----------



## Tim_Wells

jbuhler said:


> You should. A template of N is absolutely serene. You’ll forget you have any virtual instruments loaded at all.


You and dzilizzi have obviously been brainwashed by the giant corporate sample library conglomerate!


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Can you elaborate on that? What exactly are the limitations of Glory Days?


i think the main issue with the library is how wet everything is, even with the close mics; so instead of sounding like a duke or basie record it sounds like the incredibles ost

but in close 2nd for me is the librarys ability to perform melodic phrasing, if you listen to the 'the band has arrived' on their page you can hear a sax solo at 0:35 that demonstrates this well

i think this piece is super impressive, it writes around the phrasing limitation by passing these maximalist gestures around the band with big stabs and other arranger-y stuff, and those sound great. but ultimately i feel that what the library is capable of is pure affect. you cant really write a song with it


----------



## reddognoyz

so so many. Honestly though, I hope for at least one of two patches that make their way to my template, that's a win.


----------



## dzilizzi

Tim_Wells said:


> You and dzilizzi have obviously been brainwashed by the giant corporate sample library conglomerate!


Really, all it needs is a good reverb - like Blackhole - and it sounds amazing. Not just teetering on the edge of silence, but fully throwing itself over the cliff without a parachute or bungee cord. It is very freeing. 

The landing can be a little rough though.


----------



## Trash Panda

Robert_G said:


> Agree on those 2 libs, but I wouldn't judge 8Dio just on them....especially Majestica....possibly the worst of their big libraries. 8Dio has some really good stuff.


I'm also judging based on my experience with Fire Sax and Bazantar. Also the insane amount of drive space 8dio libraries seem to take up compared to what you get.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

What do you dislike about Fire Sax? I love it, personally.


----------



## Pappaus

The trouble I have with N is they added too much fluff and mic positions that take up RAM. Way back when it was n, that was a library!!!


----------



## Everratic

Originals epic brass and woodwinds
8dio wind chimes

I never found a use for either.


----------



## RogiervG

I am fairly satisfied with my purchases in general..
But only a few i do "regret"(heavy word) buying a license for.

Chris Hein orchestral libraries.
They are not sounding as i want, no matter how i try adjusting it with EQ/Reverbs etc etc.
Second reason: they are very comprehensive and all.. but i find it hard to work with.

8Dio.
Practically everything i have from them. Demo's sound very nice, but i cannot get it anywhere closely sounding to those demos.. (resulting in a very different sound/character).
Might be me, might not be... after long years of trying, i gave up on it forever.

Spitfire Orchestral Grand Piano.
Well, it's not expensive, and it sounds not expensive either. Not a very nice sounding grand piano.


----------



## Tremendouz

RogiervG said:


> Chris Hein libraries.
> They are not sounding as i want, they are very comprehensive and all.. but i find it hard to work with as second reason to "regret" the purchase..
> 8DIo, practically everything i have from them. Demo's sound very nice, but i cannot get it anywhere closely sounding to those demos.. Might be me, might not be...


Do you happen to have the solo cello by any chance? I might be interested in it...


----------



## Chamberfield

nolotrippen said:


> As of yesterday, Alicia Keys (dear artists, shut up)


Oh wow, that one was really bad even when it first came out over 10 years ago. It's a shame it's even still on the market.


----------



## tsk

More and more these days I'm finding software stale and dull. And longing to go back to recording audio. At least as a starting point anyway. It's strange, since software is more advanced than ever. Maybe it's just me.


----------



## mcalis

My last comment in here from some time ago I said I had no regrets. I hate to say it because I respect the developer a lot, but nowadays I regret CSW.

It's unfair actually because my expectations were probably just too high. And don't get me wrong, it is a good library, just not one I've found anywhere near as much use for as CSS or CSB. Those two you'd have to pry out of my cold, dead hands, CSW I would resell in a heartbeat if I could and invest in Westgate instead.


----------



## RogiervG

Tremendouz said:


> Do you happen to have the solo cello by any chance? I might be interested in it...


I do have it, as part of the solo strings bundle (expanded)
not sure on the selling pricing and how it works with Chris Hein libraries in general. (fees etc.)


----------



## Robert_G

mcalis said:


> My last comment in here from some time ago I said I had no regrets. I hate to say it because I respect the developer a lot, but nowadays I regret CSW.
> 
> It's unfair actually because my expectations were probably just too high. And don't get me wrong, it is a good library, just not one I've found anywhere near as much use for as CSS or CSB. Those two you'd have to pry out of my cold, dead hands, CSW I would resell in a heartbeat if I could and invest in Westgate instead.


Please tell us what Woodwind library out there is better than CSW for $279?


----------



## mcalis

Robert_G said:


> Please tell us what Woodwind library out there is better than CSW for $279?


None


----------



## Robert_G

mcalis said:


> None


Exactly


----------



## Trash Panda

Sarah Mancuso said:


> What do you dislike about Fire Sax? I love it, personally.


I couldn't get the sound I was hoping for out of it. Granted, I didn't realize at the time that if you don't hear the sound in the demos, the library probably isn't designed for it. The saxes on Infinite Woodwinds ended up doing everything I wanted and more instead.


----------



## Trash Panda

Robert_G said:


> Please tell us what Woodwind library out there is better than CSW for $279?


If you're talking non-discount price to non-discount price, some might like Infinite Woodwinds ($349) more than CSW ($399).


----------



## Dave Connor

Robert_G said:


> Please tell us what Woodwind library out there is better than CSW for $279?


That’s the sale price right? $399 on their site presently unless I’m missing something.


----------



## Robert_G

Dave Connor said:


> That’s the sale price right? $399 on their site presently unless I’m missing something.


Sorry...it's assumed that most people who are buying CSW already have CSS or CSB.


----------



## mixolydian

Capriccio. Bought it, played some notes/samples, disliked it, untouched since. Not a bad product I guess but it's not for me. (Hope I didn't mentioned this before.)



mcalis said:


> [...] and invest in Westgate instead.


Thought they're out of samplelibrary business for quite some time but as I see now the libraries are up on Big Fish Audio. Even the initial Westgate Studios homepage is running.


----------



## IFM

Chamberfield said:


> Oh wow, that one was really bad even when it first came out over 10 years ago. It's a shame it's even still on the market.


Weird I love this piano, use it a lot. What issued do you have with it?


----------



## Casiquire

I didn't want to keep piling on, but since the thread has been at the top of the forums for so long, I might as well. Dominus. I'm in a small minority here, but most choir writing has notes and syllables changing at the same time, but the "domino" pieces in Dominus connect during the *held vowel* instead which makes it very difficult to get smooth melodies unless it's melismatic writing on one held syllable. When i write for choir the lyrics are important. So Dominus doesn't work for almost anything I write, despite the selection of syllables being really great and very close to capable of full English.


----------



## Kevinside

I really regret...
some of the EW libraries, especially EWQLSO Platinum+XP and HWO in the context, what i paid, when they came out and what the price is now...

Then i regret
Century Strings + 2.0 Update..., cause i never get warm with the tone of the library in comparsion to other string libraries, i own...
And yes, i will never buy something from 8dio again...This company...is...forget it...
Another thing i regret is CSS...The recordings are very strange in some frequencies...
So, you must eq this library everytime... I wonder, what Mics were used for CSS...

And at last i regret BBCSO Pro... It should be a good starting point for fast composing, but its more complicated... 

Someone asked about USOE... I think auddict made a very good string library... I really like the shorts...So great to work with...


----------



## Bollen

Kevinside said:


> some of the EW libraries


Oh I'd completely forgotten about that! In that case add EW's Solo Violin to my list... What a literal pile of unusable crap!


----------



## Jorf88

8Dio Majestica
I'm tempted to throw 8Dio Requiem pro in there, too.

Yes, Majestica is huge... but because of that, the "hugeness" sound which is mostly just the mics screaming in pain, is most of what you get when you play it. I want to try doing some heavy EQ to see if I can get it to blend with anything else to fill in the "body" of the orchestral sound, but I just haven't been able to get it to work well. I suspect the samples all had to be heavily edited because of mics clipping just to get it put together.
Requiem pro can sound great in the niche situations you get it to sit well with everything, but it very quickly sounds fake when it's not tuned just right. Requiem just feels old, generally. The interface reminds me of the 90s.

I won't jump on the 8Dio hate train. I have century strings 2.0 and the century brass and really enjoy both of them. I have SCS and SSB to compare them to, and they're "different" enough from the Spitfire offerings to fill in a niche. I also really enjoy the little VSTs I've gotten from 8Dio (Caisa drum, Vibraphone, Marimba, Bazantar).


----------



## kgdrum

8dio as a developer is imo a unique developer in kind of a strange way.They are ambitious,produce and release some great libraries.Troells is passionate and driven with the 8dio team creations but imo they are extremely inconsistent.
One of my favorite sample developers ever was Tonehammer which as most users know split and became Soundiron and 8dio. They took different paths while Soundiron isn’t as prolific churning out libraries or as aggressive with utilizing an aggressive sales and pricing approach.
While generally not trying to create as many massive libraries I find Soundiron to be more consistent as far as quality control is concerned and what you see is always what you get.
Don’t get me wrong,I like 8dio and I like Troells and I think he and his team are extremely talented,creative & passionate as a developer but I wish they were more consistent.
So while I like 8dio I’m generally very careful purchasing anything 8dio,sale or not.
OTOH if Soundiron has a new release or sale on a product I’m interested in I usually buy without hesitation,a 2nd thought or any regrets.
I guess the wildly different paths the two companies took explains why they parted ways but I do wish 8dio pulled back the reigns a bit ,were more careful with releasing products,updated and fixed more releases that require mending and tamed their sales and price model to reflect the libraries actual real values.

Of course this is just one guy’s opinion and in no way am I trying to disparage 8dio.
I do have a bunch of their libraries but I always tread carefully whenever I’m considering anything from them.
Speaking for myself as a customer I know I would have bought more 8dio libraries over the years if I saw more consistency with releases and updates.


----------



## dylanmixer

The 8dio libraries I have I am extremely satisfied with. Century Brass is my go to brass library, the Deep Solo libraries, while raw sounding, are incredibly useful, and I've been waiting for a sale on the epic percussion libraries as I know they are highly regarded. I can see where consistency is a concern, but it seems like they are constantly innovating, and maybe that presents a "don't half ass a bunch of things, whole ass one thing" kind of problem. 

Any who, I've decided that I regret purchasing Jaeger. The strings sound synthy, the crossfades in the brass are bad, I never touch any of the sound design stuff. However, the vocals by Merethe are freaking awesome. Almost makes it worth the purchase, but I've cut almost everything else out of my template by now.


----------



## AMBi

Best Service Emotional Violin. 

Far from bad and it has a wealth of articulations compared to most solo violin libraries so it definitely has value in some ways but something about it just sounds...off to me. 
I can't explain it even in the demos I've heard it never feels like it sits well and I still haven't got use out of it. The legato just kinda sifts from note to note and it never feels like a smooth transition.

Bought it around the time I was new to sample libraries last year and hearing portamento for the first time in a VI blew me away so I definitely didn't do enough research when I got it haha

It gave me a crossgrade discount to Emotional Cello (which I love) so I at least got something out of it so far


----------



## Robo Rivard

mcalis said:


> My last comment in here from some time ago I said I had no regrets. I hate to say it because I respect the developer a lot, but nowadays I regret CSW.
> 
> It's unfair actually because my expectations were probably just too high. And don't get me wrong, it is a good library, just not one I've found anywhere near as much use for as CSS or CSB. Those two you'd have to pry out of my cold, dead hands, CSW I would resell in a heartbeat if I could and invest in Westgate instead.


I have all of the Westgate woodwinds, and I don't get your point... The Woodgate libraries sure sound great, but by the 2021 standards, they show some significant limitations.


----------



## Mikro93

AudioLoco said:


> Soniccouture Ondes (It's just utterly useless to me - uninstalled)


FWIW, you might be able to sell this one  
Or, you know, give it away to the person who pointed out to you that you might be able to sell this one.


----------



## Technostica

Mikro93 said:


> FWIW, you might be able to sell this one
> Or, you know, give it away to the person who pointed out to you that you might be able to sell this one.


You can sell it but there is a transfer fee.


----------



## AudioLoco

Mikro93 said:


> FWIW, you might be able to sell this one
> Or, you know, give it away to the person who pointed out to you that you might be able to sell this one.


I sincerely would have given it to you with pleasure but my studio partner in crime still insists on giving it another chance "one day". So I would be accused of high treason if I let it go (even if I know it's never going to be reinstalled anytime soon... ) 5GB of it are on an external hard disc somewhere...


----------



## mcalis

Robo Rivard said:


> I have all of the Westgate woodwinds, and I don't get your point... The Woodgate libraries sure sound great, but by the 2021 standards, they show some significant limitations.


Playability, better x-fades, and roomtone are the point. Again, I am not saying CSW is a bad library, it very clearly isn't. However it does have more issues than CSS and CSB. The x-fades between layers is much more noticeable in CSW, and on some instruments the x-fade from the long-form legato transition to the sustain is extremely noticeable (try the bass clarinet). CSS and CSB don't have that issue.


I never had much issue with the roomtone of trackdown, but I just don't find it very flattering on the woodwinds.

On top of that there is a lot of stereo ping-ponging in the samples. I actually had a nice exchange with Alex about this, it's just the nature of the instruments it seems because what you're hearing is tiny player movements that just have a very audible effect. Westgate being mono doesn't have this issue.

Lastly, I didn't have any issue with the delay for CSS and CSB because at that time, I was programming the MIDI, not playing it. I've shifted much more toward playing things in, and it's at that point that pretty much the entire cinematic series becomes a bit more difficult to work with. With CSS and CSB I know I can such a good result that I'll just grit my teeth and program the parts, but CSW somehow just hasn't jived with me and so I ultimately just don't feel like putting in the effort to program the CSW parts when I can get a good-enough-for-me part in 10x faster with Westgate or other more playable libs.

That's my reasoning, and I realize these are mostly personal consideration. However... I am under the impression that I am not the only one who feels CSW is, at the very least, not the _best_ of all the cinematic series libraries. I would even go so far as to say that some people are simply still in the honeymoon phase... but I'd be happy to be wrong about that.


----------



## Pantonal

Casiquire said:


> I didn't want to keep piling on, but since the thread has been at the top of the forums for so long, I might as well. Dominus. I'm in a small minority here, but most choir writing has notes and syllables changing at the same time, but the "domino" pieces in Dominus connect during the *held vowel* instead which makes it very difficult to get smooth melodies unless it's melismatic writing on one held syllable. When i write for choir the lyrics are important. So Dominus doesn't work for almost anything I write, despite the selection of syllables being really great and very close to capable of full English.


Amen! When is someone going to make a choir library with a full range of each separate section, with key switchable vowels? Legato is far less important because most choirs are articulating each vowel separately, legato is more often than not bad singing technique.


----------



## Casiquire

Pantonal said:


> Amen! When is someone going to make a choir library with a full range of each separate section, with key switchable vowels? Legato is far less important because most choirs are articulating each vowel separately, legato is more often than not bad singing technique.


I do like having legato and i think Dominus is, if anything, a little too subtle with it. I don't hear any transition in anything but the very loudest dynamic which is also unrealistic in its own way. But I agree with you. Sections are important and I'm totally fine with the legato in Dominus taking the back seat, i just wish it had more natural transitions when changing notes and sounds together


----------



## Robert_G

Casiquire said:


> I do like having legato and i think Dominus is, if anything, a little too subtle with it. I don't hear any transition in anything but the very loudest dynamic which is also unrealistic in its own way. But I agree with you. Sections are important and I'm totally fine with the legato in Dominus taking the back seat, i just wish it had more natural transitions when changing notes and sounds together


Does that include Pro, or just the original version?


----------



## Casiquire

Robert_G said:


> Does that include Pro, or just the original version?


Both; Pro adds more syllables (soooo close to being comprehensive! A really great set of syllables to work with, but like 5% short), and adds marcato, but the aspects I'm most critical of are the same between the two versions.


----------



## Robert_G

Casiquire said:


> Both; Pro adds more syllables (soooo close to being comprehensive! A really great set of syllables to work with, but like 5% short), and adds marcato, but the aspects I'm most critical of are the same between the two versions.


Interesting. I wonder if there are ways to smooth the transitions with a little programming.


----------



## Casiquire

Robert_G said:


> Interesting. I wonder if there are ways to smooth the transitions with a little programming.


To be clear, I'm not referring to the legato. It's smooth and subtle. I'm referring to, like, "Mary had a little lamb." The first five syllables are on all different notes: ma-ry-ha-da-li. Dominus is structured more like ma-ary-yha-ada-ali. Does that make more sense? So it's difficult to get a simple sung line like that to sound good.


----------



## Robert_G

Casiquire said:


> To be clear, I'm not referring to the legato. It's smooth and subtle. I'm referring to, like, "Mary had a little lamb." The first five syllables are on all different notes: ma-ry-ha-da-li. Dominus is structured more like ma-ary-yha-ada-ali. Does that make more sense? So it's difficult to get a simple sung line like that to sound good.


Ah ok. I've never had much faith in worldbuilders anyways.


----------



## Bollen

Pantonal said:


> Amen! When is someone going to make a choir library with a full range of each separate section, with key switchable vowels? Legato is far less important because most choirs are articulating each vowel separately, legato is more often than not bad singing technique.


Isn't the original EW Symphonic Choir just that...? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding...


----------



## Hendrixon

Casiquire said:


> ma-ary-yha-ada-ali. Does that make more sense?


Congratulations, you just sent all the NSA cryptanalysis servers to 100% cpu utilization.
I'd suggest getting off grid and staying low for awhile in a non radio cell infrastructure area.
Of course if you hear drones outside then its too late.

It was nice knowing you


----------



## Casiquire

Hendrixon said:


> Congratulations, you just sent all the NSA cryptanalysis servers to 100% cpu utilization.
> I'd suggest getting off grid and staying low for awhile in a non radio cell infrastructure area.
> Of course if you hear drones outside then its too late.
> 
> It was nice knowing you


The NSA? Cute. I made them. 💅


----------



## Leslie Fuller

While I’ve not bought this library (United Strings of Europe), I’ve never seen it mentioned with much love in these forums. I did consider it when there was a really good offer some time ago, but thought better of it. I’ve just looked at the Auddict website, as PercX really interested me, and saw a panel saying 85% off United Strings of Europe, which then gave a price of $700!!. Seriously! Either that is a mistake or the full price would be over $4500! Do they actually sell any of these?


----------



## Casiquire

Leslie Fuller said:


> While I’ve not bought this library (United Strings of Europe), I’ve never seen it mentioned with much love in these forums. I did consider it when there was a really good offer some time ago, but thought better of it. I’ve just looked at the Auddict website, as PercX really interested me, and saw a panel saying 85% off United Strings of Europe, which then gave a price of $700!!. Seriously! Either that is a mistake or the full price would be over $4500! Do they actually sell any of these?


I didn't think users hated it to be honest, but i think it's seen as overpriced for what it is. That price sounds off. It was recently on sale for something like 120 which would be about right for 85% off of 700.


----------



## darcvision

Leslie Fuller said:


> While I’ve not bought this library (United Strings of Europe), I’ve never seen it mentioned with much love in these forums. I did consider it when there was a really good offer some time ago, but thought better of it. I’ve just looked at the Auddict website, as PercX really interested me, and saw a panel saying 85% off United Strings of Europe, which then gave a price of $700!!. Seriously! Either that is a mistake or the full price would be over $4500! Do they actually sell any of these?


maybe it's marketing trick... similar like rigid audio, they product is always on sale and its 95%, or waves audio.


----------



## X-Bassist

Leslie Fuller said:


> While I’ve not bought this library (United Strings of Europe), I’ve never seen it mentioned with much love in these forums. I did consider it when there was a really good offer some time ago, but thought better of it. I’ve just looked at the Auddict website, as PercX really interested me, and saw a panel saying 85% off United Strings of Europe, which then gave a price of $700!!. Seriously! Either that is a mistake or the full price would be over $4500! Do they actually sell any of these?


I think there must be a coupon code, as $700 is full price. But I got the set a while back on sale for about $70, so it goes on deep discount. I had bought the 1st violin on intro when it was the first section released. Sounded pretty good but never got the other sections, so I bought them out of curiosity.

The 1st violins are the best of the bunch. They just spent more time and effort on them, and the samples sound better. It’s almost as if they rushed through the rest of the sections. So it’s difficult to even recommend the first violins, even though they have a unique sound that works well in a smaller independent film. Kind of a bummer they didn’t put the care into the rest, but they finished one section at a time so perhaps sales weren’t as good as they expected. There will probably be another 90 or 95 percent off sale at some point.

Perc X is pretty cool. Some usable stuff if you don’t have a lot of percussion and could use some good percussion grooves. But like anything Auddict, get it on a good sale.


----------



## sumskilz

Bollen said:


> In that case add EW's Solo Violin to my list... What a literal pile of unusable crap!


How do they ship that?


----------



## Pappaus

In keeping with the sacred cows theme, I really regret the Tina Guo Cello libraries. I know that it is me and not the product, but every time I try to put it into something, it doesn’t fit. Once again -no slur on the product. It runs well and was reasonably priced, it is just a bad fit for me.


----------



## reborn579

i regret buying native instrument's symphony series: strings library. i'm a huge NI fan - most of the instruments i use are from them, but this one just sounds harsh and unpleasant, really. i did like the interface, though


----------



## Tremendouz

Pappaus said:


> In keeping with the sacred cows theme, I really regret the Tina Guo Cello libraries. I know that it is me and not the product, but every time I try to put it into something, it doesn’t fit. Once again -no slur on the product. It runs well and was reasonably priced, it is just a bad fit for me.


I have the legato patch and it's very hit and miss. Sometimes it sounds gorgeous, sometimes the bumpy legato transitions get in the way no matter how I try to tweak the speed and intensity.


----------



## vitocorleone123

There's two horrible things about sample libraries for Kontakt (and others):

1) There's almost never a way to fully demo the product

which then is compounded by

2) There's almost never a way to re-sell the product to someone else that actually might want it, unlike hardware (usually sell for a little loss if you bought new), or even the majority of softsynths (usually sell for 50% of what you paid if you're lucky), and if you CAN, there's usually steep transfer fees that make it not worth anyone's time

Yes, there's exceptions, but the above two points make it so much more of a gamble than it should be. And one reason I try to not buy anything for Kontakt anymore (because of some regrets, and I've only "wasted" a couple hundred dollars... which is nothing I'm sure compared to many of you!). I still do, but I'm extremely careful and selective now.


----------



## Pier

vitocorleone123 said:


> There's two horrible things about sample libraries for Kontakt (and others):
> 
> 1) There's almost never a way to fully demo the product
> 
> which then is compounded by
> 
> 2) There's almost never a way to re-sell the product to someone else that actually might want it, unlike hardware (usually sell for a little loss if you bought new), or even the majority of softsynths (usually sell for 50% of what you paid if you're lucky), and if you CAN, there's usually steep transfer fees that make it not worth anyone's time
> 
> Yes, there's exceptions, but the about two points make it so much more of a gamble than it should be. And one reason I try to not buy anything for Kontakt anymore (because of some regrets, and I've only "wasted" a couple hundred dollars... which is nothing I'm sure compared to many of you!). I still do, but I'm extremely careful and selective now.


This a thousand times.

Doesn't NI offer a way to prevent piracy of Kontakt based libraries or facilitate the transfer of a license? Eg: by using the serial in Native Access. Even companies with their own player like Spitfire or OT have not implemented anti piracy measures and do not offer refunds or license transfers.

Not being able to demo products, easily refund, or resell licenses, is only making users much more wary of buying products.

I've wasted a lot of money on stuff I don't use or was super disappointing (eg: Albion One) that now deciding to buy anything above $100 becomes so excruciating that I just pass.


----------



## Getsumen

Pier said:


> This a thousand times.
> 
> Doesn't NI offer a way to prevent piracy of Kontakt based libraries or facilitate the transfer of a license? Eg: by using the serial in Native Access. Even companies with their own player like Spitfire or OT have not implemented anti piracy measures and do not offer refunds or license transfers.
> 
> Not being able to demo products, easily refund, or resell licenses, is only making users much more wary of buying products.
> 
> I've wasted a lot of money on stuff I don't use or was super disappointing (eg: Albion One) that now deciding to buy anything above $100 becomes so excruciating that I just pass.


I think one of the reasons why OT and Spitfire went to their own players is precisely the opposite of what you're saying, that is that Kontakt doesn't have many anti-piracy measures (Since anyone with a cracked Kontakt can play any library)

That and also because they probably wanted to avoid NI's cut of library sales.


----------



## Pier

Getsumen said:


> I think one of the reasons why OT and Spitfire went to their own players is precisely the opposite of what you're saying, that is that Kontakt has terrible anti-piracy measures (I don't want to get into any of the specifics).


I honestly have no idea how good or bad Kontakt is against piracy.

I imagine for libraries that are not added to Native Access it's basically zero protection. Is it also really bad for libraries that have been added with a serial to Native Access?

I could be wrong, but I doubt demos, refunds, and transfers are a priority for Spitfire or OT. Which is a shame, really, because there's so much stuff from them I'd love to try but I'm not paying $400 again for something that might not be what I'm expecting.


----------



## easyrider

Getsumen said:


> I think one of the reasons why OT and Spitfire went to their own players is precisely the opposite of what you're saying, that is that Kontakt doesn't have many anti-piracy measures (Since anyone with a cracked Kontakt can play any library)
> 
> That and also because they probably wanted to avoid NI's cut of library sales.


Spitfire just realised a Kontakt Library few days ago!


----------



## Getsumen

Pier said:


> I honestly have no idea how good or bad Kontakt is against piracy.
> 
> I imagine for libraries that are not added to Native Access it's basically zero protection. Is it also really bad for libraries that have been added with a serial to Native Access?
> 
> I could be wrong, but I doubt demos, refunds, and transfers are a priority for Spitfire or OT. Which is a shame, really, because there's so much stuff from them I'd love to try but I'm not paying $400 again for something that might not be what I'm expecting.


iirc 0 protection for third parties, but if you have a serial it doesn't matter if Kontakt itself is cracked. (I believe the way it works is that the libraries themselves aren't protected, just that the player is?)

I assume OT and Spitfire will probably run into the same issue, although I think they have the benefit that there's a lower incentive for people to try and crack their players since they only play Ot / Spitfire unlike Kontakt which has many more popular libraries and such.

At least OT has the option to buy single instruments since I believe individual instruments each have their own license, although that is still risking like ~40-50$





easyrider said:


> Spitfire just realised a Kontakt Library few days ago!


yeah that really surprised me! I'm a bit confused as to why they did that tbh, especially since right after they ported one of their older libraries to their own player.


----------



## AMBi

vitocorleone123 said:


> There's two horrible things about sample libraries for Kontakt (and others):
> 
> 1) There's almost never a way to fully demo the product
> 
> which then is compounded by
> 
> 2) There's almost never a way to re-sell the product to someone else that actually might want it, unlike hardware (usually sell for a little loss if you bought new), or even the majority of softsynths (usually sell for 50% of what you paid if you're lucky), and if you CAN, there's usually steep transfer fees that make it not worth anyone's time
> 
> Yes, there's exceptions, but the above two points make it so much more of a gamble than it should be. And one reason I try to not buy anything for Kontakt anymore (because of some regrets, and I've only "wasted" a couple hundred dollars... which is nothing I'm sure compared to many of you!). I still do, but I'm extremely careful and selective now.


This! 
It’s one of the main reasons I spend such a ridiculous amount of time researching, listening to demos and reviews on anything I’m slightly interested in and often miss out on big flash sales since I’m always nervous buying new sample libraries since there’s no way to 100% know it’ll actually be for me. 
Demos and walkthroughs can only do so much since actually using it gives a much larger impression and can make or break a purchase decision easily.


----------



## Technostica

What I Iook back on is my naivety in my purchasing decisions, especially early on. 
It's all part of the learning curve so no regrets. 
I am fairly savvy in many areas of my life when it comes to purchasing things, but I was really out of my depth. 
It's not so much that I bought loads of stuff that was bad or paid too much, just that I bought stuff that I will hardly use. 
I get very seduced by demos and imagine vaguely what I could do with a product, when the reality is I don't have the skill or intention to get to grips with certain things. 
I love music and sound so much that I get carried away. 
I am much better now at just enjoying the demos or the release hype without needing to buy. 
I still get tempted but it tends to fade, although I still buy some stuff. 
It tends to be stuff that is more practical for me and less expensive. So if I hardly use it I don't mind.


----------



## easyrider

Getsumen said:


> iirc 0 protection for third parties, but if you have a serial it doesn't matter if Kontakt itself is cracked. (I believe the way it works is that the libraries themselves aren't protected, just that the player is?)
> 
> I assume OT and Spitfire will probably run into the same issue, although I think they have the benefit that there's a lower incentive for people to try and crack their players since they only play Ot / Spitfire unlike Kontakt which has many more popular libraries and such.
> 
> At least OT has the option to buy single instruments since I believe individual instruments each have their own license, although that is still risking like ~40-50$
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah that really surprised me! I'm a bit confused as to why they did that tbh, especially since right after they ported one of their older libraries to their own player.


Cimbalom was a Full Kontakt library so didn't require a serial key. A refresh would yield new profits on an old library.


----------



## dzilizzi

Getsumen said:


> I think one of the reasons why OT and Spitfire went to their own players is precisely the opposite of what you're saying, that is that Kontakt doesn't have many anti-piracy measures (Since anyone with a cracked Kontakt can play any library)
> 
> That and also because they probably wanted to avoid NI's cut of library sales.


I think one of the reasons Spitfire went with its own player is to have multiple mics. Kontakt is limited and you have to set up multis to get the multiple mics. Embertone complained about this with the Walker and ended up selling the extra mics separately. You have to load multiple Walker instruments to blend the mics. I believe SSO was also that way. They used to sell the extra mic positions and finally took them off the market about a year before their player came out.


----------



## peladio

Huh where to start..

Spitfire - Phobos..up there with Hexeract for most useless synth..even old Alchemy blows them out of the water..

Hans Zimmer Piano and Orchestral Piano..there are many free libraries that sound better and more responsive

British Drama Toolkit, Kepler, Albion..old Symphobia blows it out the water..it's mushy mess except for a few good string patches

8dio - Adagio, pianos, Shepard tones, Liberis..their best libraries are still those Tonehammer libraries like Epic percussion ensembles

OT - JXL Brass..too expensive when Cinematic studio Brass and old Cinebrass still sound better

EW - solo violin - I don't know how they messed it that bad

Auddict - almost everything..half baked products and non existent support

NI Komplete - except for Kontakt and few libraries, 80% is bloat for my needs

Soundiron - Apocalypse percussion..it's miles behind Damage when it comes to sound

On a positive note I've never been dissapointed with Spectrasonics, Alex Wallbank's libraries, Heavyocity, Orange Tree Samples, u-he and Embertone products..

Developers (who don't allow) should either set up something like that Try sound page or allow reselling asap..but judging by the posts in this thread no wonder they're afraid to do that

I have so much more respect for those who allow it and make it painless like NI, Soundiron and u-he


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

peladio said:


> EW - solo violin - I don't know how they messed it that bad


The first time I tried it, I actually laughed. It’s that bad.


----------



## John R Wilson

Jeremy Spencer said:


> The first time I tried it, I actually laughed. It’s that bad.


Think I might download it just to see how bad this is


----------



## Lazer42

John R Wilson said:


> Think I might download it just to see how bad this is


I actually don't think it's that bad. I like it better than the Hollywood solo violin. I wish there was a manual available somewhere so I could figure out how it actually works, as I think if I knew what the controls all did for each patch it might be worth using for something.


----------



## Tremendouz

dzilizzi said:


> I think one of the reasons Spitfire went with its own player is to have multiple mics. Kontakt is limited and you have to set up multis to get the multiple mics. Embertone complained about this with the Walker and ended up selling the extra mics separately. You have to load multiple Walker instruments to blend the mics. I believe SSO was also that way. They used to sell the extra mic positions and finally took them off the market about a year before their player came out.


Wait what? I guess I'm missing something here cause I have a ton of Kontakt libraries with multiple mic positions, for example Auddict woodwinds with 6 mics.


----------



## Pier

Tremendouz said:


> Wait what? I guess I'm missing something here cause I have a ton of Kontakt libraries with multiple mic positions, for example Auddict woodwinds with 6 mics.


Maybe the previous poster meant additional mics, as in adding more mics to a current product, not as in one product having multiple mics?


----------



## Getsumen

Tremendouz said:


> Wait what? I guess I'm missing something here cause I have a ton of Kontakt libraries with multiple mic positions, for example Auddict woodwinds with 6 mics.


I assume Kontakt has a limit since OT had some 6 mic stuff.

But then again JXL Brass has like what, 16? Which I assume isn't possible with Kontakt.


----------



## dzilizzi

Tremendouz said:


> Wait what? I guess I'm missing something here cause I have a ton of Kontakt libraries with multiple mic positions, for example Auddict woodwinds with 6 mics.


I think it has something to do with a limit on the samples that can fit in an instrument.

Edit: the guy from Embertone was the one that initially said something about it with their Walker. So it could be limits on round robins or something like that.


----------



## anjwilson

Tremendouz said:


> Wait what? I guess I'm missing something here cause I have a ton of Kontakt libraries with multiple mic positions, for example Auddict woodwinds with 6 mics.


I believe it had to do with a limit on the number of samples. Embertone's walker piano has 36 dynamic layers, real sustain samples, real una corda samples, staccato samples, etc. Apparently they hit a resource limit in kontakt trying to have all of those samples and their multiple mics in the same patch.


----------



## mcalis

mcalis said:


> My last comment in here from some time ago I said I had no regrets. I hate to say it because I respect the developer a lot, but nowadays I regret CSW.
> 
> It's unfair actually because my expectations were probably just too high. And don't get me wrong, it is a good library, just not one I've found anywhere near as much use for as CSS or CSB. Those two you'd have to pry out of my cold, dead hands, CSW I would resell in a heartbeat if I could and invest in Westgate instead.



@Robo Rivard and @Robert_G will pleased to know that I take it all back.

I was wrong. I just had to sit with the library longer and find a way to make it work. 

I do still have some gripes with it (basically all the things Cory Pelizarri said in part 2 of his review) but with the mixing setup I now have it works much better. The trouble was I was trying to use CSW as section instruments (so 2 instances of each solo instrument) and I went through all the mic positions but couldn't get them to sound how I wanted - they kept sounding too much like two soloists. I didn't really like the mics on their own. The close one had too much air/breath in it, the OH ones had too much (perceived) stereo shifting, the main ones sounded a bit too dull and the room sounded too distant and muffled for my tastes.

The solution was to simplify: I now use only mix mic with a narrowed stereo image, and the SP2016 reverb to push it back into the space. Works very well IMO.


----------



## clisma

mcalis said:


> @Robo Rivard and @Robert_G
> 
> The solution was to simplify: I now use only mix mic with a narrowed stereo image, and the SP2016 reverb to push it back into the space. Works very well IMO.


Precisely how I have set them up since purchase: mix mic sounds best to me. The movement in the stereo field was disconcerting at first, but I also found them too wide and too upfront for my taste in the first place. So by pushing them back into into the room a bit with Hofa IQ Reverb, both issues are ameliorated.


----------



## Wedge

gussunkri said:


> Are people still having problems with the Spitfire plug-in or have all the issues been resolved? I haven't noticed people complaning about it lately. For what it's worth I have never experienced a single hickup and I use it on both PC and Mac.


the Spitfire hasn't resolved all the issues with their plugin yet. The RAM issue still drives me crazy.


----------



## Hadrondrift

gussunkri said:


> Are people still having problems with the Spitfire plug-in


I don't get hickups or performance issues, sample playback is okay (Windows). But the last version broke the transpose functionality, i.e. moving the position of the keyswitches. That is a pain especially for the percussion patches. It looks like it is taking Spitfire many weeks to fix things like this. This reduces my confidence in the player.

I am not happy with the player at all and - personal opinion - it looks terrible. But at least the libraries are excellent, so I guess you have to bite the bullet here.


----------



## cqd

reborn579 said:


> i regret buying native instrument's symphony series: strings library. i'm a huge NI fan - most of the instruments i use are from them, but this one just sounds harsh and unpleasant, really. i did like the interface, though


I think it was Cory Pelizzari who did a video on how to make these sound great by messing around with the mics and turning off the reverb..

Check it out.. really changed them from not great to one of the better string libraries with a lovely woody? tone..


----------



## reborn579

cqd said:


> I think it was Cory Pelizzari who did a video on how to make these sound great by messing around with the mics and turning off the reverb..
> 
> Check it out.. really changed them from not great to one of the better string libraries with a lovely woody? tone..


hm. interesting. i shall investigate


----------



## constaneum

CSW is one of the best woodwind libraries available in the market but may not be the holy grail for all. The one i regretted buying all this while is Adagio Strings. there are nice things in the library but in general too much noises and out of tune sound. Too bad....i kinda like the timbre though. I didn't quite like 8dio's woodwinds either, the Claire Oboe and 8DiOboe. based on what i've experienced, i tend to stay away from their orchestral products.


----------



## YuyaoSG

Synchron Strings. I bought SY 1 and SYP. Actually, I didn't see any big differences between these two libraries. For SYP, I think can be used as an upgrade patch of SY1. However, VSL sells it as a new library. And the price is very expensive. even though they have a crossgrade price, but it still makes me very uncomfortable. Users have to switch back and forth between these two libraries, and there is a lot of content is the same. VSL gives me a feeling that they like to separate one library into different parts and sell them separately, then they can get more money. Very unconfident and not worth it. There is one company that do the same things is Spitfire Audio.


----------



## william81723

YuyaoSG said:


> VSL gives me a feeling that they like to separate one library into different parts and sell them separately, then they can get more money. Very unconfident and not worth it. There is one company that do the same things is Spitfire Audio.



I have both of them and have a 100% same feeling.


----------



## Thudinthenight

Arkhis... it’s a great library, and I impulse-bought it on sale last year, but I still don’t know what I’m going to do with it.


----------



## Mikro93

Thudinthenight said:


> Arkhis... it’s a great library, and I impulse-bought it on sale last year, but I still don’t know what I’m going to do with it.


Give it to me, then, I'll have a use for it  
I hesitated during the last sale and kind of regret not getting it, even though I have way too much stuff already. 
Do you have any complaints about it?


----------



## rnb_2

Thudinthenight said:


> Arkhis... it’s a great library, and I impulse-bought it on sale last year, but I still don’t know what I’m going to do with it.


I did the same and eventually decided to part with it when I saw that @shadowsoflight was thinking about getting it. I had no idea what to do with it, and he's already done more with it than I ever did, so I consider that a win.


----------



## SupremeFist

I think a few people named British Drama Toolkit a way back in this thread, and I felt similarly until quite recently. Used it in a couple of things and it really clicked, and now I'm really happy to have it. So you never know!


----------



## shadowsoflight

rnb_2 said:


> I did the same and eventually decided to part with it when I saw that @shadowsoflight was thinking about getting it. I had no idea what to do with it, and he's already done more with it than I ever did, so I consider that a win.



Win-win!

I've been having a blast with it, but I also have a very limited number of orchestral libraries so it really doesn't overlap with any of my other stuff.


----------



## AndreasHe

merlinhimself said:


> Cinematic Motion Guitars by Samplelogic
> Such a disappointment...



OH, please tell me more, before I consider buying it.


----------



## makimakimusic

Nucleus and 8dio Anthology. Never used them on a project. I tend to stay away from Audio Imperia since Nucleus. As for 8dio, they loose me some years ago.


----------



## biomuse

YuyaoSG said:


> Synchron Strings. I bought SY 1 and SYP. Actually, I didn't see any big differences between these two libraries. For SYP, I think can be used as an upgrade patch of SY1. However, VSL sells it as a new library. And the price is very expensive. even though they have a crossgrade price, but it still makes me very uncomfortable. Users have to switch back and forth between these two libraries, and there is a lot of content is the same. VSL gives me a feeling that they like to separate one library into different parts and sell them separately, then they can get more money. Very unconfident and not worth it. There is one company that do the same things is Spitfire Audio.


Wanna defend VSL just a bit here; from the beginning they‘ve made no-compromise libraries that are stunningly complete and very flexible, in the form of the original VI/VI-Pro instruments. Those are expensive, and remain so, because of what they are.

As they‘ve tried to ease into more affordable product lines, yeah, some of their decisions have been strange to watch. Some of them provide a lot of value but it’s hit and miss. My advice (and it’s hard to follow) is: save up until you can get the full products and skip all this other merchandizing if you can. Their full-version instruments are worth it almost without exception.


----------



## Leslie Fuller

makimakimusic said:


> Nucleus and 8dio Anthology. Never used them on a project. I tend to stay away from Audio Imperia since Nucleus. As for 8dio, they loose me some years ago.


Interesting you should mention 8Dio Anthology, as there is another current thread where a VI Control member wanted to be talked out of buying it.


https://vi-control.net/community/threads/curse-you-8dio.106797/



15 pages later and many in the thread are buying Anthology (on sale at $88), mostly to get the legacy library Adagio!


----------



## d4vec4rter

I've just uninstalled NI Session Strings Pro 2 off my SSD Drive and, at the same time rueing the fact of having spent several hundred pounds on a strings library (and its upgrade) that I've very rarely used. After a recent serious splurge on Spitfire Audio's Albion 1, Abbey Road 1 OF, Audio Imperia's Nucleus and Jaeger along with having owned Heavyocity's Novo Strings for some time, Session Strings Pro just never got used. I also listened to it just before the uninstall and was quite appalled at how bad it actually sounded.


----------



## YuyaoSG

biomuse said:


> Wanna defend VSL just a bit here; from the beginning they‘ve made no-compromise libraries that are stunningly complete and very flexible, in the form of the original VI/VI-Pro instruments. Those are expensive, and remain so, because of what they are.
> 
> As they‘ve tried to ease into more affordable product lines, yeah, some of their decisions have been strange to watch. Some of them provide a lot of value but it’s hit and miss. My advice (and it’s hard to follow) is: save up until you can get the full products and skip all this other merchandizing if you can. Their full-version instruments are worth it almost without exception.


Yeah, I partly agree with you. I own the SYP, SY1 SCS and Besendorf piano. All of these are full libraries. They all have amazing qualities. Especially the piano. For the strings. I know they want to give more choice and detail articulations to the users. But I think they complicate things instead. Users need to take a lot of time to adapt to them. In fact, they can learn from other attempts such as Arron infinite series. The automated articulation of the infinite series is very well done, and it is also very real. I personally think that VSL should take advantage of them. If composers need to spend a lot of time arranging keyswitch, then there is not much time for composing.


----------



## muziksculp

*CineStrings Core*. by CineSamples.

I never liked using them, and not crazy about their timbre, also very CPU heavy, they need to update it, and even re-design this library. Maybe this is something CineSamples has planned for given they are planning on releasing CineStirngs Pro. Also don't like the playability. 

I'm not surprised it rarely gets mentioned on the forum, or is used in demos.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

YuyaoSG said:


> Yeah, I partly agree with you. I own the SYP, SY1 SCS and Besendorf piano. All of these are full libraries. They all have amazing qualities. Especially the piano. For the strings. I know they want to give more choice and detail articulations to the users. But I think they complicate things instead. Users need to take a lot of time to adapt to them. In fact, they can learn from other attempts such as Arron infinite series. The automated articulation of the infinite series is very well done, and it is also very real. I personally think that VSL should take advantage of them. If composers need to spend a lot of time arranging keyswitch, then there is not much time for composing.


Ironically, Infinite Series is probably one of my main purchase regrets (both brass and woodwinds).


----------



## Markrs

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Ironically, Infinite Series is probably one of my main purchase regrets (both brass and woodwinds).


That is the libraries I am most tempted with, well that and Audio modeling as I like the different approaches to just different variations on sampled libraries.


----------



## clisma

Glory Days by OT. I had just finished an album of Big Band music with the Samplemodeling set and was disappointed by the lack of consistency in GD.


----------



## makimakimusic

makimakimusic said:


> Nucleus and 8dio Anthology. Never used them on a project. I tend to stay away from Audio Imperia since Nucleus. As for 8dio, they loose me some years ago.


OK ! I have to be fair and go back on pretty much everything I've said in my previous post !

My most recent job was an epic, heroic, Silvestri-style theme for a video game. And Nucleus literaly saved my life on that one. Strings are all from Nucleus as well a the brass ensemble patch !
As it was an heroic, american inspired theme, brass are really important and 8Dio's Century trumpets (solo and ensemble) and horns did the trick wonderfully !
There's also a bunch of 8dio's epic toms on it !

You see where I'm going with this ! I have been to quick on judging those two samples developers. And with Nucleus strings working so well, I'm starting to be very attracted by their Areia ! ^^


----------



## gohrev

Yesterday I reinstalled Spitfire Studio Brass Pro, thinking I could supplement my excellent Cinematic Studio Brass solo horn. 

Boy, was I mistaken.


----------



## mussnig

gohrev said:


> Yesterday I reinstalled Spitfire Studio Brass Pro, thinking I could supplement my excellent Cinematic Studio Brass solo horn.
> 
> Boy, was I mistaken.


Did you try Mix 2? I really think that one works quite well ...


----------



## nabemon

Modern Scoring Strings

After 1.1 update, its legato got much more unrealistic and hard to control. Unlike CSS, timing of note transition is unpredictable. Lack of playable run(including Marcato) also irritates me. Auto-divisi and humanization are totally unusable because of weird side effects. Space sounds unnatural and unpleasant. To me, the only usable mic is Close.

I’ m a big fan of LASS but deeply disappointed at MSS.


----------



## gohrev

mussnig said:


> Did you try Mix 2? I really think that one works quite well ...


It does sound a tad better, but, IMHO, it still cannot hold a candle to CSB.


----------



## TintoL

nabemon said:


> Modern Scoring Strings
> 
> After 1.1 update, its legato got much more unrealistic and hard to control. Unlike CSS, timing of note transition is unpredictable. Lack of playable run(including Marcato) also irritates me. Auto-divisi and humanization are totally unusable because of weird side effects. Space sounds unnatural and unpleasant. To me, the only usable mic is Close.
> 
> I’ m a big fan of LASS but deeply disappointed at MSS.


WAO, such brutal feedback. I am very sorry for that. I feel your pain. But, I kind of agree with your comment. I own lass full and was eyeing MSS from the beginning. Listening to the videos made me feel like the sound was not there. So, I avoided buying it. 

Sounds like I am not the only one that hears that.


----------



## TintoL

Pappaus said:


> In keeping with the sacred cows theme, I really regret the Tina Guo Cello libraries. I know that it is me and not the product, but every time I try to put it into something, it doesn’t fit. Once again -no slur on the product. It runs well and was reasonably priced, it is just a bad fit for me.


Yeah, agree. I have done few pieces with it. The sound and legato are amazing. But, because of the struggle to put it in the mix and space I have been on the brink of simply replacing it with something else. 

So far, spitfire Solo strings, the new one, does it better. With more work, but, it fits.


----------



## william81723

nabemon said:


> Modern Scoring Strings
> 
> After 1.1 update, its legato got much more unrealistic and hard to control. Unlike CSS, timing of note transition is unpredictable. Lack of playable run(including Marcato) also irritates me. Auto-divisi and humanization are totally unusable because of weird side effects. Space sounds unnatural and unpleasant. To me, the only usable mic is Close.
> 
> I’ m a big fan of LASS but deeply disappointed at MSS.


+1 vote


----------



## Resoded

Got to chime in with my regrets:

* Spitfire as a company, not very happy with them. Not because the libraries are bad but because back in the days they said they don't do sales and release libraries at a discount instead. Then they started doing sales. Also, they do nothing to reward customer loyalty, some people have been with them from the very beginning. Also, they keep releasing library after library without fixing the issues with the ones already released. Still no Symphonic Pro on the horizon. Also, their new player is not good, in part becuse of bugs and performance issues, and in part because the layout is all about esthetics instead of functionality. And don't get me started on the constant hype and teasers. Haven't bought any Spitfire libraries in some time and will continue on that trend.
* Spitfire Albions. Seemed like they would be useful when released but in retrospect I don't use them much at all. With the exception of Albion 3, I'd buy that one again.
* 8dio Adagio, fell victim to the hype train and even pre-ordered. Silly me. Upon release the library was really riddled with issues. Some updates later makes it better though, but I had already moved on by then.
* Also, almost all developers gets a special mention for not being particularly customer friendly. No demos allowed for customers, and the walkthroughs and music on their websites are very flattering. Compare this to computer games bought on Steam, when you buy and download the game, if you've played the game for less than two hours you can get a refund no questions asked. This allows you to make sure your computer can run it, and get a quick feel for the game.


----------



## ansthenia

Modern Scoring Stings, unfortunately. I swear they recorded it in a small tin room or something. And the legato is just kinda messy to work with as of 1.1, full of inconsistencies to deal with. Though I do think you can get better results now compared to 1.0.


----------



## nabemon

TintoL said:


> So, I avoided buying it.


I think you made the right choice😎


----------



## Toecutter

ansthenia said:


> Modern Scoring Stings, unfortunately. I swear they recorded it in a small tin room or something. And the legato is just kinda messy to work with as of 1.1, full of inconsistencies to deal with. Though I do think you can get better results now compared to 1.0.


That was my initial impression and it never went away, even after the update. Sucks to drop this much money and be disappointed. Unfortunately, unless they record the whole thing again in a proper room, I don't think there's much to be done about the sound :(


----------



## bill5

Bollen said:


> Anything by 8dio...


? You've tried everything they have and they all sucked?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

nabemon said:


> Modern Scoring Strings
> 
> After 1.1 update, its legato got much more unrealistic and hard to control. Unlike CSS, timing of note transition is unpredictable. Lack of playable run(including Marcato) also irritates me. Auto-divisi and humanization are totally unusable because of weird side effects. Space sounds unnatural and unpleasant. To me, the only usable mic is Close.
> 
> I’ m a big fan of LASS but deeply disappointed at MSS.





ansthenia said:


> Modern Scoring Stings, unfortunately. I swear they recorded it in a small tin room or something. And the legato is just kinda messy to work with as of 1.1, full of inconsistencies to deal with. Though I do think you can get better results now compared to 1.0.





william81723 said:


> +1 vote





Toecutter said:


> That was my initial impression and it never went away, even after the update. Sucks to drop this much money and be disappointed. Unfortunately, unless they record the whole thing again in a proper room, I don't think there's much to be done about the sound :(


Curious to hear what you're having issues with post-1.1 (speaking as a relatively new owner of MSS). I definitely ran into some early struggles, but realized some of it was user error. If you share your feedback here, Audiobro is listening and hopefully can address it: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/audiobro-modern-scoring-strings.101913/page-211


----------



## Trash Panda

I’m going to add 8dio Century Brass 2.0 to my list of regrets. I haven’t used it in a full mix yet, but on its own it sounds pretty underwhelming compared to other options (Audio Imperia, Infinite, BBCSO, AR1, Adventure Brass, HWOB).


----------



## Bollen

bill5 said:


> ? You've tried everything they have and they all sucked?


Well... The post asks about regrets, not necessarily how much they "sucked"... Also, it doesn't imply I have tried everything, merely everything I have bought from them, which is mostly their most expensive libraries and the most hyped about.


----------



## BasariStudios

Not fully regretting MSS but i do have similar reservation
as some other users here on the forums. There is something
i don't like about it and there is something i love about it,
i just can not figure out what it is. The GUI complicates things
even more...it makes you love it until you hear the Sound.


----------



## bill5

Bollen said:


> Well... The post asks about regrets, not necessarily how much they "sucked"... Also, it doesn't imply I have tried everything, merely everything I have bought from them, which is mostly their most expensive libraries and the most hyped about.


OK but you said "8Dio" and no specific product, so it did seem to imply everything. Can you elaborate which you bought and why you regretted? Potential customer asking.


----------



## Bollen

bill5 said:


> OK but you said "8Dio" and no specific product, so it did seem to imply everything. Can you elaborate which you bought and why you regretted? Potential customer asking.


Sure thing! I have Angelic Choir, Century Solo Brass, Century Strings and Sordino (v1 & v2), Requiem Professional, Agitato Grandiose, Adagio and Adagio 2.0, CASE Solo strings and a couple of other ones that I deleted because they were terrible.

Why I regretted buying them? Because they're inflexible, difficult to use, the patches are often uneven and incompatible, some stuff is out of tune or just has actual errors. Their advertisement is often misleading e.g. I bought Adagio 2.0 under the promise I could "customise the keyswithces for all patches on one instance", it doesn't even contain the same patches!!! They are in fact less! You can't reassign a lot of controllers and overall the libraries just feel rushed and incomplete. I have many more issues with them, but that should be sufficient for now. I could go into specifics if you want.

I keep some of them on my PC because there are a few things here and there that are useful e.g. choir FX, but I could've gotten them elsewhere with a better library or for a lot cheaper.


----------



## nabemon

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Curious to hear what you're having issues with post-1.1 (speaking as a relatively new owner of MSS). I definitely ran into some early struggles, but realized some of it was user error. If you share your feedback here, Audiobro is listening and hopefully can address it: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/audiobro-modern-scoring-strings.101913/page-211


I’m sorry for my post. Of course I checked that thread and still try to fit MSS with my workflow. I don’t think I have an objective view of MSS. But it’s also true that I’m struggling with MSS for a long time even if something would be wrong with my usage. Sometimes I feel like sharing my complaint with someone else...


----------



## bill5

Bollen said:


> I have many more issues with them, but that should be sufficient for now. I could go into specifics if you want.


I think that's enough for now, wow - thanks for the info!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

nabemon said:


> I’m sorry for my post. Of course I checked that thread and still try to fit MSS with my workflow. I don’t think I have an objective view of MSS. But it’s also true that I’m struggling with MSS for a long time even if something would be wrong with my usage. Sometimes I feel like sharing my complaint with someone else...


You don't need to be sorry for regretting your purchase. But if the developer understands why you regret it, they might be able to address it.


----------



## turnerofwheels

Bollen said:


> Sure thing! I have Angelic Choir, Century Solo Brass, Century Strings and Sordino (v1 & v2), Requiem Professional, Agitato Grandiose, Adagio and Adagio 2.0, CASE Solo strings and a couple of other ones that I deleted because they were terrible.


8DIO is very hit and miss. There are a few libraries of theirs I do find quite useful, but none of them are on that list. However CAGE I'd send back if I could. It wasn't badly recorded.. just very limited. I bought it when it came out. Twice the price of Albion IV for maybe an eighth of the content

Aside from that:



muziksculp said:


> *CineStrings Core*. by CineSamples.


Same. Everything else I have from CineSamples is gold but I find this one unusable..

CSSS. It's never worked in anything I've done. I wish I could trade it off.

Spitfire Studio Woodwinds: Utterly drab sound. I hear pro is better but I'm pretty leery to shell out more $$ to find out.

JXL Brass: No complaints about the sound: it's top notch. But for the price, the limited included articulations are a serious drag. I keep having to go back to SSB or other libraries to fill in the gaps with basic things like tenutos that are missing.. and matching these libraries is a PITA. Also, I find that the dynamic layer crossfading jumps out more in this library than others I have, which is.. odd.


----------



## jbuhler

SHANE TURNER said:


> JXB: No complaints about the sound: it's top notch. But for the price, the paltry amount of included articulations are a serious drag. I keep having to go back to SSB or other libraries to fill in the gaps with basic things like tenutos that are missing.. and matching these libraries is a PITA


I only have the JXL Brass solo trombone and one thing I like about it is how easily it slots in with SSB and complements it. It’s one reason I’m eyeing making further additions from JXLB. Comparatively I struggle mightily getting anything from Century Brass to sit together with SSB.


----------



## cqd

I don't see why people would find cinestrings unusable?..

Yeah, you have to set it up a bit, and the patches could be laid out better.. but it's fine, no?..


----------



## Robert_G

SHANE TURNER said:


> Spitfire Studio Woodwinds: Utterly drab sound. I hear pro is better but I'm pretty leery to shell out more $$ to find out.


I agree, and I am pretty sure that more mics wont add any life to such a drab sound.....which is why i wont waste anymore money to upgrade to pro.


----------



## turnerofwheels

jbuhler said:


> I only have the JXL Brass solo trombone and one thing I like about it is how easily it slots in with SSB and complements it. It’s one reason I’m eyeing making further additions from JXLB. Comparatively I struggle mightily getting anything from Century Brass to sit together with SSB.


Oh for the sound yes, Teldex and Air are nice together, I might use just a pinch of reverb to glue them

But if I start off writing a line in JXL and don't have the articulations I need, I find it a pain to match one articulation. So I often find myself just sticking with SSB. I would gladly swap mic positions for a few more common articulations.. or if I even just had the arcs like in Berlin Brass to get around the obvious dynamic layer crossfade issue. So this is an "it's good, but could have been amazing if only" problem I guess


----------



## william81723

BasariStudios said:


> The GUI complicates things even more...it makes you love it until you hear the Sound.


Even though there are many control options to shape the sounds,but the sounds are really not lovely in the final result.
I'm so regret spending so much money on MSS.... Ya... the most worthless thing I have bought.
I should have just put the money on Synchron Elite Strings... ha..


----------



## ag75

La sessions by Orchestral tools. I was watching the intro video (probably drinking) and just bought it on a whim. It’s just a weirdly put together library. I do like the room it was recorded in but that’s about it. I often forget I own it now. Definitely not a tool I reach for.


----------



## turnerofwheels

cqd said:


> I don't see why people would find cinestrings unusable?..
> 
> Yeah, you have to set it up a bit, and the patches could be laid out better.. but it's fine, no?..


I kind of like the layout actually--it's fairly flexible for mapping the articulations.
I've tried using it many times in projects over the years but the tone never works.. it's unfortunate, I want to like this library..


----------



## CT

I regret nearly everything....


----------



## emilio_n

ag75 said:


> La sessions by Orchestral tools. I was watching the intro video (probably drinking) and just bought it on a whim. It’s just a weirdly put together library. I do like the room it was recorded in but that’s about it. I often forget I own it now. Definitely not a tool I reach for.


Quite agree with you.
I bought it on an impulse, but even the free piano of OT sounds better to me than the one included in the library. The choirs that could be great are zero inspiring. 
Maybe I didn't use enough and is my fault more than the fault of the library but if I could return some products now, this will be on my list for sure.


----------



## doctoremmet

Regrets: all the freebies and very cheap “no brainers” that end up unused and occupy storage space


----------



## mussnig

3DC said:


> For a guy who's yet to buy his first real library this kind of threads are real eye opener.



I guess you should always take opinions with a grain of salt. Everybody has a different workflow, different needs and most importantly different ears. You will also find that there are some libraries where opinions (here and elsewhere) are quite divided.


----------



## Crowe

doctoremmet said:


> Regrets: all the freebies and very cheap “no brainers” that end up unused and occupy storage space


That's why we call them no-brainers, isn't it? They invoke brainlessness.


----------



## doctoremmet

Shiirai said:


> That's why we call them no-brainers, isn't it? They invoke brainlessness.


I never got the memo. But absolutely there’s truth in that statement


----------



## gohrev

SHANE TURNER said:


> Spitfire Studio Woodwinds: Utterly drab sound. I hear pro is better but I'm pretty leery to shell out more $$ to find out.


Shane, save your money. The clarinet is about the only instrument that is okay, let's not even talk about the oboe.

My Studio Woodwinds Pro hit the trash can the day I installed Cinematic Studios Woodwinds. Uninstalled it to free up memory, haven't missed it since.

The same goes for Studio Brass Pro.

Exception here is Studio Strings Pro -- Great effects and filler library (super sul tasto, anyone?).


----------



## doctoremmet

mussnig said:


> I guess you should always take opinions with a grain of salt.


Absolutely. My gem may be your worst regret.


----------



## noises on

3DC said:


> For a guy who's yet to buy his first real library this kind of threads are real eye opener.


Nice to opt out of every library before starting.


----------



## Drundfunk

3DC said:


> For a guy who's yet to buy his first real library this kind of threads are real eye opener.


I was hovering over your name with my mouse kinda hoping you'd be a member since 2011 or something. That would have been hilarious.


----------



## TintoL

I don't recall regretting buying a product. I have felt that I could have bought something that I would be using more, but not regretting buying a whole product. UNTIL SYNCHRON-IZED WOODWINDS came along. Boy do I regret buying that!!!!! At least I bought it in a pre-released sell.

VSL from the software point of view is flawless, specially VEP. But, this synchon player simply crashes in cubase and vep quite frequently. Even extensive support from vsl didn't fixed the issue.


I bought it because spitfire symphonic woods, (which I love the sound) are not good for fast passages and runs. They actually lack a lot of agility, at least to me. Sinchornized woods do have the agility for fast passages. But, when you put them isolated, and add the required reverb, they sound kind of plastiky. It's subtle, but it's there. And once you have Berlin woods plus spitfire symphonic woods, this thing is just redundant. I haven't even install the new material update for the library.

I honestly dislike dry libraries. They required too much work.


----------



## Michel Simons

3DC said:


> I actually started learning about music last year in December at age 48. Never touched an instrument nor did anything serious in music production before. Hopefully one day in not too distant future I am aiming to become just as good as you guys.



You should try to aim a little bit higher than that. 

I regret having regrets.


----------



## Toecutter

TintoL said:


> But, this synchon player simply crashes in cubase and vep quite frequently. Even extensive support from vsl didn't fixed the issue.


That worries me, I was about to push the button on Elite Strings... I always had the impression that the Synchron player was rock solid! windows or mac?


----------



## Evans

For what it's worth (not much), I load up Synchron Player multiple times per week and can count my crashes/freezes across the past ~year on one hand.

I'm on Windows + Cubase 10.5, sometimes inserted straight into Cubase and sometimes via VEPro (another Windows machine).

Cubase _hates_ to close without locking up (even a blank project), and I used to have problems with SINE. But not so much with Synchron.


----------



## TintoL

Toecutter said:


> That worries me, I was about to push the button on Elite Strings... I always had the impression that the Synchron player was rock solid! windows or mac?


Well, don't 100% take that as a general issue. Could be an "only in my computer " issue. But, I have had 6 slaves using vep with all vsl template using the original player and the vsl instruments pro version. Never had a single crash for years. Switch to this, and we couldn't get it to work. After loading a template about 100GB (which I don't use anymore) having a crash really, really sucks. 

If I don't get this with sine, kontakt, spitfire player, why would it happen with this sinchron player? 
Now, the flexibility of that player is awesome, but, the sound, plus the extra work to eliminate the dry sample, it's not worth it. At least to me.


----------



## SlHarder

3DC said:


> For a guy who's yet to buy his first real library this kind of threads are real eye opener.


As you wander the shopping aisles of sample libraries keep in mind that some publishers do offer demos and returns. 

VSL offers 30 day demos of some products and always offers 14 day "withdrawals".

Someone might now jump in with a comment about the demonic dongle required but $20 spent on a dongle is a pretty cheap entry fee to a buffet where you can actually taste and swallow the sounds and then send the plate back to the chef and get your money back if you are not satisfied.

VSL may not have the instruments you want so look for other sources that have similar policies.

And heed the tales of woe from others who took an expensive flyer on a whim. You wouldn't patronize a store that forces you to buy a pair of shoes that you can't return before even trying them on. And you don't have to patronize sample publishers who do.


----------



## Toecutter

TintoL said:


> After loading a template about 100GB (which I don't use anymore) having a crash really, really sucks.


I feel you, 6 slaves is a lot to keep track of, I hope you get sorted eventually! My setup is much more modest so I'll probably take the plunge.

I could swear I read somewhere that Vienna offered full refunds and thought that was amazing? But now reading their terms of service, you may only return a downloadable product as long as you don't activate it. That defeats the purpose since I can't predict if things will break or not XD @Ben did I misinterpret something?


----------



## TintoL

SlHarder said:


> As you wander the shopping aisles of sample libraries keep in mind that some publishers do offer demos and returns.
> 
> VSL offers 30 day demos of some products and always offers 14 day "withdrawals".
> 
> Someone might now jump in with a comment about the demonic dongle required but $20 spent on a dongle is a pretty cheap entry fee to a buffet where you can actually taste and swallow the sounds and then send the plate back to the chef and get your money back if you are not satisfied.
> 
> VSL may not have the instruments you want so look for other sources that have similar policies.
> 
> And heed the tales of woe from others who took an expensive flyer on a whim. You wouldn't patronize a store that forces you to buy a pair of shoes that you can't return before even trying them on. And you don't have to patronize sample publishers who do.


Just to clarify something related to the dongle. The dongle can actually be a good thing for a user. Only depending on the brand of the dongle used.

Four years ago my whole studio was set on fire and the dongle got burned and lost. All the licenses in the e-licenser were lost. I had all receipts. All instruments were VSL libraries. It's important to understand, that the e-licenser it's a one way only protection, it only protects the company, not the user. Meaning, it doesn't store your licenses in the cloud. If you loose the dongle you loose the license period. Unless you pay extra for a protection service from e-licenser.

Unlike the Ilock, which is preferable, because licenses are stored in the cloud and you can order a new dongle with your licenses intact for a fair fee. All my east west licenses were safe with this service. But, vsl didn't honor my receipts. And the final resolution was that I had to buy the licenses again.

Not sure if elicenser policy has changed, but, that's how it was for me.


----------



## dzilizzi

3DC said:


> For a guy who's yet to buy his first real library this kind of threads are real eye opener.


Listen to all the demos and walkthroughs available. Especially 3rd party walkthroughs where they don't know the sweet spots of a library. Then decide if you can live with the sound. Every library out there has its good and bad points. Most of these complaints are because libraries didn't work for that person, not because the libraries are crap. Though there are some really bad libraries out there, most do have some good points and, for the right price, are worth it for that one good point. 

It also helps to do the research first then wait for the sales. Know what you want and need. I'd say most of my bigger regrets were pop-up sales buying something quickly because it was such a great deal without doing a lot of research. But then again, some of my best purchases were bought this way as well.


----------



## Consona

Trash Panda said:


> I’m going to add 8dio Century Brass 2.0 to my list of regrets.


I bought only 2 instruments and yea, I use them just as an accompaniment. Like I was excited about all those short articulations, and in the end, something like staccatissimo and fanfare shorts sound exactly the same on Cimbasso and a lot of the others are not that useful.
Also the dynamic range is pretty flat.

I'd like to try the Fire or Studio series stuff, but I just don't know anymore...


----------



## Evans

Consona said:


> I bought only 2 instruments and yea, I use them just as an accompaniment. Like I was excited about all those short articulations, and in the end, something like staccatissimo and fanfare shorts sound exactly the same on Cimbasso and a lot of the others are not that useful.
> Also the dynamic range is pretty flat.


And the playing range is sometimes oddly compressed. A while back, I was trying to pick a solo horn for a project and - while I can't recall the specifics - Century Brass was greatly compressed compared to my alternatives at the time (CSB, JXL, CineBrass, Hollywood), at least on the high end. It was the only one that was unreasonable.

Again, this is just fuzzy memory, so don't take my word for it. Please do your own *thorough* research when considering 8dio.


----------



## Ben

Toecutter said:


> I could swear I read somewhere that Vienna offered full refunds and thought that was amazing? But now reading their terms of service, you may only return a downloadable product as long as you don't activate it. That defeats the purpose since I can't predict if things will break or not XD @Ben did I misinterpret something?


I'm not a lawyer, so I can't tell you anything about the TOS and why they are written the way they are.

This said, I can confirm that (currently) we do offer a 14 days return policy, if bought on our website - even if you have downloaded/installed/activated the product.
(Just to avoid misunderstandings: only once for the exact same product; we had a few people that tried to return the same product after getting it the second time, a few months after initial purchase).


----------



## Evans

I can confirm that I've picked up a VSL product that I paid for; tested it out for about a week; then emailed VSL to request a refund which they accepted. It was a super easy process.


----------



## Bollen

3DC said:


> For a guy who's yet to buy his first real library this kind of threads are real eye opener.


Spot on! Since using this forum more religiously I have NOT regretted any of my purchases! Waiting for other users' reviews and demos is the only sure way of knowing if an instrument can "cut it". However, I will say that I don't regret any of my VSL purchases, despite their horrific cross-fading, but back then nobody really had that...


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Evans said:


> I can confirm that I've picked up a VSL product that I paid for; tested it out for about a week; then emailed VSL to request a refund which they accepted. It was a super easy process.


And occasionally they also offer free demos, like the 30 day one for Synchronized Woodwinds recently that allowed me to try it out (passed on it at the end since I had Berlin). Synchron player has never once crashed on me on a Mac and is IMO the best sample player available right now.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Trash Panda said:


> I’m going to add 8dio Century Brass 2.0 to my list of regrets. I haven’t used it in a full mix yet, but on its own it sounds pretty underwhelming compared to other options (Audio Imperia, Infinite, BBCSO, AR1, Adventure Brass, HWOB).


I was on the fence of buying it, and I am so glad I got the Try-Pack first. Saved me 248 bucks.


----------



## Mikro93

I can't get the Synchronized Woodwinds demo to work, and I was so busy with work that I'm getting closer to the end of my trial period :D
Oh welll!

EDIT: I got it to work by... Following the instructions. And I still have my full triad period to go!


----------



## doctoremmet

Just to put some counterweight back into the sample cosmos: of all my brass (Adventure, Trailer, Infinite, Native Instruments Symphony Series, Chris Hein Orchestral EXtended, EWHO Gold, Xsample Complete) I love Century Brass 2.0 the most. By far. Which just goes to show you either can’t really reliably “use” threads like these. Or you can’t trust me, which I must admit is never the brightest plan anyway.

Edit: the couple of Waverunner brass instruments are excellent too btw, wish there was an entire collection of ‘em


----------



## Michel Simons

Ben said:


> (Just to avoid misunderstandings: only once for the exact same product; we had a few people that tried to return the same product after getting it the second time, a few months after initial purchase).



Cheeky.


----------



## Evans

doctoremmet said:


> Just to put some counterweight back into the sample cosmos: of all my brass (Adventure, Trailer, Infinite, Native Instruments Symphony Series, Chris Hein Orchestral EXtended, EWHO Gold, Xsample Complete) I love Century Brass 2.0 the most. By far. Which just goes to show you either can’t really reliably “use” threads like these. Or you can’t trust me, which I must admit is never the brightest plan anyway.


Well, obviously, you need to pick up CineBrass, Berlin Brass, JXL Brass, and Cinematic Studio Brass.


----------



## anjwilson

Evans said:


> Well, obviously, you need to pick up CineBrass, Berlin Brass, JXL Brass, and Cinematic Studio Brass.


I heard there's a company called Spitfire that has some brass libraries, too.


----------



## TintoL

Ben said:


> we had a few people that tried to return the same product after getting it the second time, a few months after initial purchase).


Because of people that try to outsmart the legal system is that we all end up in this kind of situations. If there wouldn't be piracy we wouldn't have to deal with a dongle. Oh well, what can you do, life is life.


----------



## doctoremmet

anjwilson said:


> I heard there's a company called Spitfire that has some brass libraries, too.


Ah yes, but those are objectively bad, see?


----------



## Evans

Re: Spitfire, call me when the Abbey Road One series has a comprehensive brass release. I'll pay "early days of EWHO" money for that.


----------



## ScanTron Test

Anything by Sample Logic. I've had so many issues with their products.. They don't sound great either.


----------



## CeDur

Most of my regrets are hardware (so called 'high-end' digital pianos). Regarding VST, cheap stuff (those 'under 20 quid' plugins) usually end up being deleted from the disk, but the most regretted one was Garritan CFX. I couldn't warm up to its sterile sound and noise build-up when playing with pedal depressed was underwhelming.


----------



## Toecutter

Ben said:


> This said, I can confirm that (currently) we do offer a 14 days return policy, if bought on our website - even if you have downloaded/installed/activated the product.


The sort of thing that makes me regret not getting into the VSL ecosystem before. You deserve my support!  Thanks for clearing it up


----------



## noises on

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I was on the fence of buying it, and I am so glad I got the Try-Pack first. Saved me 248 bucks.


You may have judged Century Horns prematurely. Way better than EWHB,..(understandably taking its age into account). I also used the "try" option and felt similarly. The whole pack is super respected by many users out there, and is arguably more capable thank Junkie in many ways....well worth revisiting independent reviews. Great price too.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

noises on said:


> You may have judged Century Horns prematurely. Way better than EWHB,..(understandably taking its age into account). I also used the "try" option and felt similarly. The whole pack is super respected by many users out there, and is arguably more capable thank Junkie in many ways....well worth revisiting independent reviews. Great price too.



I already watched that video. Twice. 
As far as I can tell (like I said, I don't own the full version so I have to rely on demos and these videos) Guy Michelmore is right in his conclusion that this library works better in the higher dynamics than in the lower ones. That is - of course - completely fine, and I agree with you on the price. However, I already have Jaeger and Talos, therefore I have no need for more "epic" brass. When it comes to the lower dynamics of Century Brass the tone is simply not to my taste (with one or two exceptions - I might buy these individually at some point). 

As a reference: My main brass libraries are CineBrass Core and Pro, which I am very happy with.
The reason I am even looking at other brass libraries at all is that I am looking for a library that offers more control over the length of short notes and blends well with CineBrass. (No need to discuss that in this thread - I will probably create a new one for that question at some point.) So far I am under the impression that Century Brass does offer this control, but I don't think it would work very well in combination with CineBrass.


----------



## gst98

noises on said:


> You may have judged Century Horns prematurely. Way better than EWHB,..(understandably taking its age into account). I also used the "try" option and felt similarly. The whole pack is super respected by many users out there, and is arguably more capable thank Junkie in many ways....well worth revisiting independent reviews. Great price too.



I've got the ensemble horns, and they are good but very limited. I like the 12 horns because they don't actually sound like 12 horns, and have a responsive and nimble legato but have a very narrow dynamic range. But they have a more classical sound that sounds close mic'd, even when making your own mix. The smaller ensembles sound fairly harsh. and dynamic crossfades a pretty sloppy on all patches. 

The biggest problem for me is the lack of articulations. Despite having lots of them, they entirely miss the basic variety of shorts and marcatos. Spitfire Brass has the same issue. For me, there is no comparison to HWB, which really covers the basics with an even better legato, waaay more dynamic range. It's pointless comparing to JXL because it's going for a modern bigger sound.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Jotto said:


> I must sat Albion Tundra.


What don't you like about it? I wanted to pick it up at some point and it seems to be loved by most users.


----------



## muziksculp

Besides CineStrings Core, I also regret buying OT/Organic Samples Tableau Solo Strings, for some reason I just didn't get along with the instruments. I didn't like the playability, The Viola is nice, but not the rest, and I didn't like some of the included articulations.


----------



## Satorious

Jotto said:


> I must sat Albion Tundra.


So many of the same answers here - and I love a hot take, can you elaborate why?


----------



## Jotto

Satorious said:


> So many of the same answers here - and I love a hot take, can you elaborate why?


He he.. i just dont use It.


----------



## Chungus

Fluffy Audio's Simple Jazz Bass, and Straight Ahead's bass. I bought them because I wanted Ample Sound's bass, but was leery about the lack of a real walkthrough video. The regret comes from the fact that I couldn't get them to do what I wanted. Ended up buying Ample's upright, anyway. lawl

On the flip side, while I previously mentioned my disappointment with SSO here before, but it's grown on my over the course of last year. I no longer regret buying that collection.


----------



## lettucehat

Laurin Lenschow said:


> As a reference: My main brass libraries are CineBrass Core and Pro, which I am very happy with.
> The reason I am even looking at other brass libraries at all is that I am looking for a library that offers more control over the length of short notes and blends well with CineBrass. (No need to discuss that in this thread - I will probably create a new one for that question at some point.) So far I am under the impression that Century Brass does offer this control, but I don't think it would work very well in combination with CineBrass.


Unfortunately, this feature in Century Brass is less flexible that I was hoping, and is available on fewer articulations than I would like. Not nearly as much stretching as the Spitfire Time Machine patches have. Very useful for subtle adjustments, but you won't be able to double or halve the length of a note, as far as I can tell.


----------



## cmillar

My worst buy was Native Instruments Session Horns Pro. 

The demos did a good selling job, but after about 5 minutes I knew they wouldn't cut it for what I look for as a replacement for the real thing when needed. I'm an actual brass player myself (trombone) and am pretty fussy about sampled horns.

Too bad i can't sell it!....the horns are in perfect shape....no dents, slides work beautifully, valves are like new, new reeds and pads on the saxes, great cases, no tarnish or water marks on the bells!


----------



## chocobitz825

Komplete and Arturia collection

both are probably all some people would want and need. Komplete is just so lacking in unique sounds that I almost never use any of it. Arturia is a fantastic collection in theory, but since switching to hardware synths, I just don’t find a desire to dig into it.


----------



## Andreas Moisa

Not really regretting anything but I'd rather have the developers focus on what the sounds should achieve musically - I often find myself using only very few patches of any given library.


----------



## mussnig

Andreas Moisa said:


> I often find myself using only very few patches of any given library.


I guess this is quite normal. Also, whenever Christian Henson starts talking about the creation of their first Albion he is always (more or less) giving exactly this point as their motivation.

I sometimes still find it very helpful to have many patches available (even, if I end up using the "usual" things in the end). Sometimes browsing patches and playing around helps me get into the right mood or can also give me ideas (if you want, you may say that I find this process "inspirational" - but I find that word is a bit overused). Also, trying out different stuff makes me more confident of my choices. But of course, I am a hobbyist and enjoying the process - others might find it slows them down unnecessarily.


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> Besides CineStrings Core, I also regret buying OT/Organic Samples Tableau Solo Strings, for some reason I just didn't get along with the instruments. I didn't like the playability, The Viola is nice, but not the rest, and I didn't like some of the included articulations.


Is it worth just buying Tableau Solo Strings Viola?


----------



## Fa

Spitfire Sacconi Violin... so wet, so low volume, so unflexible. In my setup unusable.

VSL Synchron strings were a big frustration as well, but at least they made me eligible for several later updates (Cantabile for free and Synchron Strings Pro for fairly low price) of very good value, so partially compensating the disappointment.


----------



## gussunkri

Tableau viola: One can buy it separately. It is amazing!


----------



## PaulieDC

CeDur said:


> Most of my regrets are hardware (so called 'high-end' digital pianos). Regarding VST, cheap stuff (those 'under 20 quid' plugins) usually end up being deleted from the disk, but the most regretted one was Garritan CFX. I couldn't warm up to its sterile sound and noise build-up when playing with pedal depressed was underwhelming.


wow. interesting how some of us are on the opposite end of that thought! To each his own...


----------



## PaulieDC

TintoL said:


> Never had a single crash for years.


----------



## Pappaus

Satorious said:


> So many of the same answers here - and I love a hot take, can you elaborate why?


I can’t say anything bad about the library itself, but here is why I don’t use it:
The library is sold as “on the edge of silence”. Did not think they meant that literally. The volume is very low which makes it hard to balance. It is very niche and so it is not a general use library. Also To really get the use out of it, you need to invest time and energy to know how to use it. I am an older guy who does this stuff for fun and am loathe to invest time and energy to learn to get the best out of the library. As I said, there are no problems with the library itself - just not a great match for me.


----------



## Fleer

ProductionVoices. Didn’t know it wasn’t Kontakt Player compatible.


----------



## CeDur

@Fleer Which one you bought? Most Compact versions can be used with free Sforzando, but bigger ones need Kontakt. I don't want to be rude, but it's clearly stated on Production Voices site, in many places (even during checkout). Maybe try to contact their support and they will switch it for you for compact version. BTW I've just played for an hour with Production Grand 2 LE and it's simply amazing.

Another option, a bit pricey though, is acquiring Kontakt Full, possible for 125$ currently (NI sale).


----------



## Negan_n_Lucille

Honestly, anything sonokinetic


----------



## CGR

Fleer said:


> ProductionVoices. Didn’t know it wasn’t Kontakt Player compatible.


Jason Chapman from Production Voices is a very responsive developer. There was an earlier version of the Production Grand (Yamaha C7) 'Modern' which runs in the free Szorzando player. No pretty GUI, but 4 mixable mics sets of 24 bit samples and it sounds amazing. The best "Studio" Yamaha C7 sample out there in my opinion. I'd suggest dropping Jason an email.


----------



## Fleer

@CeDur @CGR
Yeah, their Production Grand was one of my very first library purchases, at a time when I didn’t know the difference between Kontakt and Kontakt Player. I just like my pianos to be compatible with the latter. If I had known that ProductionVoices pianos aren’t, I wouldn’t have purchased. I later tried to get a refund but to no avail.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Everything by 8dio, most things from sonokinetic and indiginus


----------



## Artemi

Sonokinetic Modal Runs
It doesn't have an upper octave on strings and woodwinds, so it kinda becomes useless, at least for me.
Also for some reason it's pretty CPU heavy


----------



## LauraC

Negan_n_Lucille said:


> Honestly, anything sonokinetic


yep - I'm headed that way, too.


----------



## Tim_Wells

AceAudioHQ said:


> ...most things from indiginus


Agree to disagree


----------



## AndyP

The 8Dio Studio Quartet, with a few caveats.

The violin I find usable, the rest ... meeeh.

The tone is not my taste at all, the legato is terrible except for slightly faster playing styles (agile legato). Whereas the normal legatos in the individual patches are better than the ones in the KS patch. The transitions are poor, and there is a lot of phasing.
It sounds like they heavily processed the samples with eq's and filters.

The violin came out first and made me hope that the rest would be similar, but unfortunately that was not the case.

In comparison, I like the Intimate Strings classes better in terms of tone.


----------



## John R Wilson

AndyP said:


> The 8Dio Studio Quartet, with a few caveats.
> 
> The violin I find usable, the rest ... meeeh.
> 
> The tone is not my taste at all, the legato is terrible except for slightly faster playing styles (agile legato). Whereas the normal legatos in the individual patches are better than the ones in the KS patch. The transitions are poor, and there is a lot of phasing.
> It sounds like they heavily processed the samples with eq's and filters.
> 
> The violin came out first and made me hope that the rest would be similar, but unfortunately that was not the case.
> 
> In comparison, I like the Intimate Strings classes better in terms of tone.


I half regret this one as well. I only got the Violin from it. It's ok, but overall I've not made much use of it and I don't particularly like the tone of it.


----------



## VSriHarsha

LauraC said:


> yep - I'm headed that way, too.


You know it’s pretty weird but I initially thought of buying their.......well what’s their MultiSampled Orchestral library (Well, I am not a fan of phrase libraries)but then I learned more about the other libraries of the same category, by other devs and bought on but no, not Sonokinetic. Although, thanks to @dzilizzi, she told me about their Christmas 9 days sale & how they offer a(or 2) product for free, well, if you can get it in time. I got their Favola? for free. I also got another library which is related to the Organ or something but I did not use it, yet, well not much, but Favola is really good.


----------



## Casiquire

I don't own any of Sonokinetic's bigger libraries, just Speeldoos and the celesta, but they're both fantastic imo. I'm surprised to see all the distaste for the company here because i hadn't heard it before


----------



## dzilizzi

I love their Watchmaker. I bought 8Dio's clocks because I wanted a ticking sound for something I was doing. All the samples were too electronic sounding. Just, no. Then I found The Watchmaker. That perfect old fashion, grandfather clock type ticking (along with others) It actually ends up in a lot of my music as a kind of click track that doesn't go away.


----------



## mussnig

Casiquire said:


> I don't own any of Sonokinetic's bigger libraries, just Speeldoos and the celesta, but they're both fantastic imo. I'm surprised to see all the distaste for the company here because i hadn't heard it before


I have their Ostinato Strings library (got it very chep last December). When opened up first it sounds great and seems useful. However, when working with it I realized it can be a bit tricky to get it behave exactly as wanted. Also, I found that sometimes the volume of the individual string groups (low, hi 1 , hi 2) are not quite consistent compared to each other. I used it in one track and for that it was already worth the price - however, in the future I would probably use something else for it (also, for some reason I found it not too easy to blend with the rest of that track but that's for sure due to my lack of skills).


----------



## mussnig

dzilizzi said:


> I love their Watchmaker. I bought 8Dio's clocks because I wanted a ticking sound for something I was doing. All the samples were too electronic sounding. Just, no. Then I found The Watchmaker. That perfect old fashion, grandfather clock type ticking (along with others) It actually ends up in a lot of my music as a kind of click track that doesn't go away.


I once recorded some analog clock real close and denoised it for a short movie. I should probably bring it into some playable form ...


----------



## jbuhler

Casiquire said:


> I don't own any of Sonokinetic's bigger libraries, just Speeldoos and the celesta, but they're both fantastic imo. I'm surprised to see all the distaste for the company here because i hadn't heard it before


I think a lot of folks dislike the phrase-based design of most of the big libraries. Mostly, it's not understanding what phrase-based libraries are designed to do, and that they may very well not be at all the thing you need. That said, many of them are quite useful and they can readily accomplish textural things in particular that note-based libraries struggle with. But they are also very useful if you need to quickly put music behind some video. I imagine that music editors might also find them useful.


----------



## SupremeFist

AndyP said:


> Whereas the normal legatos in the individual patches are better than the ones in the KS patch.


Well that is weird - I hadn't even noticed that the individual articulation folders contain "natural legato" patches that are indeed much better than the default ones (which presumably aren't true legato after all). But they are unavailable in the main instrument so you can't keyswitch between them and other artics. Plus the target legato note is not looped and dies away very quickly, thus making slow legato lines unplayable. All very strange. 

I won't say I regret getting the violin, viola, and cello since I got them for $49 each and can see how to use them for some things in a way that will sound good. But I might not be hurrying to buy anything else by 8dio soon.


----------



## AndyP

SupremeFist said:


> Well that is weird - I hadn't even noticed that the individual articulation folders contain "natural legato" patches that are indeed much better than the default ones (which presumably aren't true legato after all). But they are unavailable in the main instrument so you can't keyswitch between them and other artics. Plus the target legato note is not looped and dies away very quickly, thus making slow legato lines unplayable. All very strange.
> 
> I won't say I regret getting the violin, viola, and cello since I got them for $49 each and can see how to use them for some things in a way that will sound good. But I might not be hurrying to buy anything else by 8dio soon.


Actually, I wasn't going to buy it, but I thought for the 50% price I will hopefully get some use out of it.
So for lyrical legatos I will definitely not use them.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

SupremeFist said:


> Well that is weird - I hadn't even noticed that the individual articulation folders contain "natural legato" patches that are indeed much better than the default ones (which presumably aren't true legato after all). But they are unavailable in the main instrument so you can't keyswitch between them and other artics. Plus the target legato note is not looped and dies away very quickly, thus making slow legato lines unplayable. All very strange.
> 
> I won't say I regret getting the violin, viola, and cello since I got them for $49 each and can see how to use them for some things in a way that will sound good. But I might not be hurrying to buy anything else by 8dio soon.


All of the legato is true legato. Natural legato means that you're getting _only_ the actual transition performances without the typical crossfade into a looped sustain sample. It would indeed be nice to have it within the same patch, though, like how it is in Claire and Adagio Legacy.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Tim_Wells said:


> Agree to disagree


I thought so too at first but using them a lot you notice small annoying things, the instrument selection is not the best, they usually have a characteristic sound about them you don’t find in other libraries with the same instrument, which you start to hate after a while, and you can’t do certain stuff with them. I know they are generally well liked but I wish I could cancel the purchases since I had to buy better instruments to be able to do the things I want. I guess for the price they’re ok, just not good enough for me.


----------



## kitekrazy

Tim_Wells said:


> Agree to disagree


I really need to use Solid State Symphony in a dance track.


----------



## kitekrazy

LauraC said:


> yep - I'm headed that way, too.


I'm beginning to think phrased base stuff is not really any different than working with loops. They are there but you can't get them to make what you really want.


----------



## el-bo

dzilizzi said:


> I love their Watchmaker. I bought 8Dio's clocks because I wanted a ticking sound for something I was doing. All the samples were too electronic sounding. Just, no. Then I found The Watchmaker. That perfect old fashion, grandfather clock type ticking (along with others) It actually ends up in a lot of my music as a kind of click track that doesn't go away.


I did want some ore electronic ticks and tocks, but also some more traditional stuff. So 'Clocks' was a little disappointing. Can't really complain, given the sum paid was $9. But 'The Watchmaker' does seem to handle that missing element really well. One say, perhaps. Until then, will have to just make do with loops for the traditional stuff.


----------



## el-bo

SupremeFist said:


> I think a few people named British Drama Toolkit a way back in this thread, and I felt similarly until quite recently. Used it in a couple of things and it really clicked, and now I'm really happy to have it. So you never know!


Have wanted that for a long time. Had just become aware of it around the time it made it into 'The Ton', but hadn't got to grips with what that even meant, at the time. One of these days (Years, perhaps) I'll get it


----------



## dzilizzi

kitekrazy said:


> I'm beginning to think phrased base stuff is not really any different than working with loops. They are there but you can't get them to make what you really want.


Although, that is where the midi export comes in. 

I've used some of their stuff in things I've done - mostly the rhythmy/ostinatos type patterns that are hard to get VI's to do in midi without a lot of work. They sit in the background well for me, but I am also a hobbyist, and definitely don't have great ears. But mostly, I find them useful as a learning tool on how the instruments work, since they normally have sheet music with the phrases.


----------



## jazzman7

kitekrazy said:


> I'm beginning to think phrased base stuff is not really any different than working with loops. They are there but you can't get them to make what you really want.


Exactly. I got Capriccio and Noir. The Capriccio Perc has been of use here and there. The phrases sometimes can be useful but not as often as I would have liked. Maybe if the upcoming new String VI is killer on its own, it might also be a path for using the phrase Libs a bit more. I will be watching that one with interest


----------



## Bollen

I have a new one on my list: Heavyocity Intimate Textures, despite the half price atm the actual content seems miniscule!


----------



## jazzman7

dzilizzi said:


> But mostly, I find them useful as a learning tool on how the instruments work, since they normally have sheet music with the phrases.


Yes, the educational part has been useful too. I don't try it often, but It's nice to see what some excellent musicians would do in a piece at just THAT particular moment and particular progression In something I'm writing. 

"Oh, so that's what a real Oboeist can do there!" 

I'm hardly ever able to use phrases directly but the ideas can sometimes take me down roads I might not have traveled otherwise.


----------



## SupremeFist

Sarah Mancuso said:


> All of the legato is true legato. Natural legato means that you're getting _only_ the actual transition performances without the typical crossfade into a looped sustain sample. It would indeed be nice to have it within the same patch, though, like how it is in Claire and Adagio Legacy.


Strange, because the transitions in the main legato patches are so much worse.


----------



## SupremeFist

AndyP said:


> Actually, I wasn't going to buy it, but I thought for the 50% price I will hopefully get some use out of it.
> So for lyrical legatos I will definitely not use them.


Yeah me neither, but the bowed artics and arcs can be beautiful for (very) slow textures. Overall these libraries seem to me like a ton of nice recordings that have not been edited and scripted carefully enough to make them really usable instruments, which seems to echo a general feeling around here about the company's products.


----------



## Futchibon

AceAudioHQ said:


> Everything by 8dio


Care to elaborate?


----------



## lettucehat

Bollen said:


> I have a new one on my list: Heavyocity Intimate Textures, despite the half price atm the actual content seems miniscule!


I don't have Intimate Textures but this post helped remind me I had some Gravity packs (guitars/vocals) that were complete letdowns. The fact that I forgot I had them says something I suppose. It's not that they're bad for what they are, it's just that Heavyocity's (and Output's) style just does not work for me at all, and I've avoided everything except percussion since then. I don't know what kind of context their prefabricated stuff works in but it's definitely not the types of projects I work on.. well produced though.


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Futchibon said:


> Care to elaborate?


I have maybe 10 libraries from them and none of them are very playable, you can get a good sound out from some of them but it requires way more programming than with other libraries, lots of libraries from other manufacturers are very playable, so you only need to play something in with a midi keyboard and do only minor adjustments for it to sound good. Also some of the libraries have bugs that haven't been fixed in a long time and there are lots of inconsistent velocities in several instruments. also the guitars are really basic. On another forum 8dio was also most frequently mentioned when talking about regrets. Choirs were an exception.


----------



## Bollen

AceAudioHQ said:


> Choirs were an exception.


Not for me...


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Bollen said:


> Not for me...


Yea that's what the others said, I don't own any of their choirs and I'm not planning on buying any of their libraries in the future :>


----------



## CT

The most recent thing I'm kind of regretting is Tallinn. 

These are beautiful recordings of exceptional musicians and instruments in a great space (I really desperately need more stuff recorded in large churches), and I'm glad to have (I assume) paid some royalties to the musicians involved. Despite all that, some of the sampling and programming choices severely restrict its usage for me. I'm a little uncertain of its future status on my list of owned/installed/uninstalled libraries and plugins at the moment....


----------



## zwhita

Negan_n_Lucille said:


> Honestly, anything sonokinetic


What has been the most fun for me is getting inspired with the randomize function.

I knew going in that even spending half-price on Capriccio was going to get very limited use in a project, so I already wrote this off as a frivolous purchase. If I end up using it great, if not I don't plan on getting anything else from Sonokinetic, so it wouldn't really be fair for me to complain about it now. What I've done with it so far suggests that timing and tuning are mostly spot-on, so this could not have been easy to record and develop. I kinda feel the same way about Spitfire Kepler and spent about the same amount on it.

These "frivolity" writeoffs with sample libraries are nothing compared to real-life expenses such as out-of-network insurance payments and the like. Nice to spend it on something I at least got some happiness from.


----------



## jazzman7

zwhita said:


> What has been the most fun for me is getting inspired with the randomize function.
> 
> I knew going in that even spending half-price on Capriccio was going to get very limited use in a project, so I already wrote this off as a frivolous purchase. If I end up using it great, if not I don't plan on getting anything else from Sonokinetic, so it wouldn't really be fair for me to complain about it now. What I've done with it so far suggests that timing and tuning are mostly spot-on, so this could not have been easy to record and develop. I kinda feel the same way about Spitfire Kepler and spent about the same amount on it.
> 
> These "frivolity" writeoffs with sample libraries are nothing compared to real-life expenses such as out-of-network insurance payments and the like. Nice to spend it on something I at least got some happiness from.


I think that's a great way to look at it!


----------



## Wally Garten

zwhita said:


> I kinda feel the same way about Spitfire Kepler and spent about the same amount on it.


Yeah -- I really like the idea of Kepler, and I've used it on a track or two, but the CPU hit alone makes it hard to integrate into what I'm doing on a regular basis. But still glad I contributed to Spitfire recouping on the development of a weird, interesting tool!


----------



## Wunderhorn

Wally Garten said:


> Yeah -- I really like the idea of Kepler, and I've used it on a track or two, but the CPU hit alone makes it hard to integrate into what I'm doing on a regular basis. But still glad I contributed to Spitfire recouping on the development of a weird, interesting tool!


Kepler could be an amazing instrument if it only got an overhaul. The audio content is good, the workflow approach is contrived and cumbersome.
As it is - I feel it is one of the sadder cases of abandon-ware as it does have a good core with great potential.


----------



## VSriHarsha

Sarah Mancuso said:


> All of the legato is true legato. Natural legato means that you're getting _only_ the actual transition performances without the typical crossfade into a looped sustain sample. It would indeed be nice to have it within the same patch, though, like how it is in Claire and Adagio Legacy.


Claire Winds are just beautiful. So are the legacy strings but that’s what it is? I mean the Natural Legato is actually a transition to a looped sustain performance? I didn’t know this. Well, I actually thought the make of simulated legato is that but not the actual True Legato. But these libraries have the True Legato & Natural Legato patches, right?


----------



## CGR

Negan_n_Lucille said:


> Honestly, anything sonokinetic


Reading this reminded me that I picked up Sonokinetic Indie last year, had a quick play with it, got a little confused and then put it aside! So, I set myself a challenge today to try and incorporate something from it in a short piece. Here's the result:


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> Although, that is where the midi export comes in.
> 
> I've used some of their stuff in things I've done - mostly the rhythmy/ostinatos type patterns that are hard to get VI's to do in midi without a lot of work. They sit in the background well for me, but I am also a hobbyist, and definitely don't have great ears. But mostly, I find them useful as a learning tool on how the instruments work, since they normally have sheet music with the phrases.


I don’t have their phrase libraries but that’s really nice to have sheet music incorporated with. But can you edit ?


----------



## Futchibon

AceAudioHQ said:


> I have maybe 10 libraries from them and none of them are very playable, you can get a good sound out from some of them but it requires way more programming than with other libraries, lots of libraries from other manufacturers are very playable, so you only need to play something in with a midi keyboard and do only minor adjustments for it to sound good. Also some of the libraries have bugs that haven't been fixed in a long time and there are lots of inconsistent velocities in several instruments. also the guitars are really basic. On another forum 8dio was also most frequently mentioned when talking about regrets. Choirs were an exception.





Bollen said:


> Not for me...





AceAudioHQ said:


> Yea that's what the others said, I don't own any of their choirs and I'm not planning on buying any of their libraries in the future :>


I don't follow your logic, Ace: you're saying choirs were an exception to being mentioned with regret, but then you seem to be agreeing with Bollen? The 8Dio choirs like Insolidus are stunning. I agree about the guitars, but I thought the walkthrough and demos would have turned you off when there are much better options from other developers. I'm curious what some of the 10 libraries you mention are?


----------



## Futchibon

Mike T said:


> The most recent thing I'm kind of regretting is Tallinn.
> 
> These are beautiful recordings of exceptional musicians and instruments in a great space (I really desperately need more stuff recorded in large churches), and I'm glad to have (I assume) paid some royalties to the musicians involved. Despite all that, some of the sampling and programming choices severely restrict its usage for me. I'm a little uncertain of its future status on my list of owned/installed/uninstalled libraries and plugins at the moment....


Interesting, I got the choirs and am loving them, but resisted the whole package as a third of the library on organs seemed a bit indulgent, and the strings, though lovely sounding, I probably have covered with SCS and OACE. If OT allowed resales I'd definitely make you an offer though!

Can I ask what you were expecting? Not to score the next Bourne film I hope!  I thing it's amazing that if you listen to Part's Da Pacem Domine and then Ben's Seraphim, you can tell it's recorded with the same choir and in the same space, it's an amazing recording for fans of that particular sound.


----------



## Futchibon

Wally Garten said:


> Yeah -- I really like the idea of Kepler, and I've used it on a track or two, but the CPU hit alone makes it hard to integrate into what I'm doing on a regular basis. But still glad I contributed to Spitfire recouping on the development of a weird, interesting tool!





Wunderhorn said:


> Kepler could be an amazing instrument if it only got an overhaul. The audio content is good, the workflow approach is contrived and cumbersome.
> As it is - I feel it is one of the sadder cases of abandon-ware as it does have a good core with great potential.


Kepler is one of my favourite purchases, but also the hardest nut to crack. I think some people who are used to the instant eargasm when playing just about any note with OACE and other Evos of Spitfires, are in for a rude shock if they're unaware Kepler takes a bit of work to get nice results. And as mentioned, the CPU means you need a beefy computer. But I hope you guys persist with it!


----------



## CT

Futchibon said:


> Can I ask what you were expecting?


I was expecting exactly what was delivered, in spirit, just executed with a little more... finesse? Not sure what the right word is, it just feels to me like the library could have been more than it is. It wouldn't even necessarily take _more_ sampling, just _different_ sampling, and a little more care with the programming.

Between the strings which I can match pretty closely (better, in some respects) with non-vibrato SCS/reverb/big church room tone, the choirs which have some odd choices with dynamic sampling/programming, inconsistent releases, and rather unwieldy syllables (really too bad since this could be the highlight), and the organs which are beautifully recorded but not very well-served by SINE's functionality... yeah I don't know, it's just kind of a letdown as someone very fond of Pärt and the whole style. Like they had access to these musicians in this space and didn't exactly stick the landing.

I understand the incredible effort that goes into making these things, so I hesitate to criticize but....


----------



## Jish

Mike T said:


> The most recent thing I'm kind of regretting is Tallinn.
> 
> These are beautiful recordings of exceptional musicians and instruments in a great space (I really desperately need more stuff recorded in large churches)


A member on here I kind of enjoyed reading, pre-membership ('Sears Poncho' I think was his name...nowhere to be found now?) posted this clip some some years back, and I have re-visited ever since; what he pointed out as well that I had underestimated previous, was the specific size of the string section within the space itself (a medium-ish sized church) and what sound/tonality it produced- namely how the hall itself adds so much size/weight to the performance, while the section size maintains alot of detail in the process (though the 'tail' as so often is the case, is the tradeoff). He thought it was required viewing for anyone seriously considering writing for string's, and it's advice that helped me personally.


----------



## X-Bassist

Albion 1... then Albion One... I've never bought another. Quickly went from last in the templete to gone. None of it compares to a good string, brass, wind, or perc library. And Spitfire falls short with their sound design patches. I've found very little in any of the Albions I like after watching all the walkthroughs. Really wish I could sell those I have.


----------



## Futchibon

Mike T said:


> I understand the incredible effort that goes into making these things, so I hesitate to criticize but....


Constructive criticism like yours is very helpful, thanks! Yeah I assumed as much with the strings and SCS. I can get the main organ for $75 with the EDU discount, do you think it's worth it? And how do you do the umlaut?!


----------



## doctoremmet

iPhone: long press a key - gives options to pick all kinds of accents. Windows: good old ALT codes 

Pärt!


----------



## el-bo

doctoremmet said:


> iPhone: long press a key - gives options to pick all kinds of accents. Windows: good old ALT codes
> 
> Pärt!


¡Ï'm qûītę šüré yõū đøñ't kńòw whåt yõù ãrë tálkîńg äbôūt!


----------



## doctoremmet

¿


----------



## CT

Futchibon said:


> I can get the main organ for $75 with the EDU discount, do you think it's worth it?


I think that's a reasonable price for what is a really nice organ. Just know that it's not a very straightforward process to combine patches. Most of them are recorded combinations, but there are a few individual stops in there which you'd not likely use on their own and so may wish to layer with others.


----------



## Futchibon

There was a composer named Pärt
Who wrote music with all of his heärt
On hearing Cantus for Britten
I was instantly smitten
And moved by his wonderous ärt!


----------



## AceAudioHQ

Futchibon said:


> I don't follow your logic, Ace: you're saying choirs were an exception to being mentioned with regret, but then you seem to be agreeing with Bollen? The 8Dio choirs like Insolidus are stunning. I agree about the guitars, but I thought the walkthrough and demos would have turned you off when there are much better options from other developers. I'm curious what some of the 10 libraries you mention are?


I wasn't agreeing with him since I don't have any 8dio choirs, I just mentioned other people have said the choirs being the exception. I've always wondered about the 8dio demos, for some instruments there aren't any naked tracks and you end up pondering which one of the instruments played on the track was the one you're considering. And like I mentioned some instruments sound ok but usually they need a lot of work and you have to try to get around of their limitations. I have at least the fire trumpet, 8dioboe, claire flute virtuoso, studio solo saxophone, steel drum, vibraphone and dobro, some others also which I can't now recall and I've tried most of their freebies. Of these the least disappointing ones have been claire flute and vibraphone but I don't like them that much either, the claire flute isn't very controllable and the vibraphone doesn't have a motor so I have to add plugins to make it sound like one.


----------



## Tim_Wells

AceAudioHQ said:


> I thought so too at first but using them a lot you notice small annoying things, the instrument selection is not the best, they usually have a characteristic sound about them you don’t find in other libraries with the same instrument, which you start to hate after a while, and you can’t do certain stuff with them. I know they are generally well liked but I wish I could cancel the purchases since I had to buy better instruments to be able to do the things I want. I guess for the price they’re ok, just not good enough for me.


I get what your saying. I've noticed artifacts (for lack of a better word) with some of the libraries. Also, one of their instruments probably won't fill all your needs for that instrument. But they can fill certain voids very nicely and at a reasonable cost. 

For example the strumming on the Ukulele sounds really nice and has been quite useful. I'm considering getting their acoustic guitar, just for the strumming. For the way I work, I think it will help. It won't sound as good as my Orange Tree and Ample guitars, but it will fill a useful niche those do not.


----------



## dzilizzi

VSriHarsha said:


> I don’t have their phrase libraries but that’s really nice to have sheet music incorporated with. But can you edit ?


Only if you export the midi. You can't edit the phrases.


----------



## Evans

I regret buying HOOPUS. I think the sounds and player are actually quite good. I'm a longtime fan of EWHO (Diamond).

The problem is that one SKU for EWHO Diamond gets you a separate license for each section. One SKU for the HOOPUS "upgrade" gets you one license for everything.

This means you're screwed if you planned your template across multiple machines with VEPro. Support says you can ask the "licensing team" for additional licenses, but I learned that's a black hole.


----------



## jbuhler

Wunderhorn said:


> Kepler could be an amazing instrument if it only got an overhaul. The audio content is good, the workflow approach is contrived and cumbersome.
> As it is - I feel it is one of the sadder cases of abandon-ware as it does have a good core with great potential.


SF clearly learned some things from Kepler that they applied to Symphonic Motions, but SM also has many of the same workflow issues as Kepler and one of the biggest issues I have with both libraries is that the grid design is not optimal for this kind of thing because it locks you into needing to use many instances or printing to audio if you want to vary the patterns.


----------



## AndyP

Evans said:


> I regret buying HOOPUS. I think the sounds and player are actually quite good. I'm a longtime fan of EWHO (Diamond).
> 
> The problem is that one SKU for EWHO Diamond gets you a separate license for each section. One SKU for the HOOPUS "upgrade" gets you one license for everything.
> 
> This means you're screwed if you planned your template across multiple machines with VEPro. Support says you can ask the "licensing team" for additional licenses, but I learned that's a black hole.


Full agreement! Especially when you consider how high the resource requirements are.
Fortunately, the separate HOD licenses still work.


----------



## mussnig

jbuhler said:


> SF clearly learned some things from Kepler that they applied to Symphonic Motions, but SM also has many of the same workflow issues as Kepler and one of the biggest issues I have with both libraries is that the grid design is not optimal for this kind of thing because it locks you into needing to use many instances or printing to audio if you want to vary the patterns.


I was thinking the same. Symphonic Motions is really great and inspiring but some functionality to automate the grid would be most welcome.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike T said:


> I was expecting exactly what was delivered, in spirit, just executed with a little more... finesse? Not sure what the right word is, it just feels to me like the library could have been more than it is. It wouldn't even necessarily take _more_ sampling, just _different_ sampling, and a little more care with the programming.
> 
> Between the strings which I can match pretty closely (better, in some respects) with non-vibrato SCS/reverb/big church room tone, the choirs which have some odd choices with dynamic sampling/programming, inconsistent releases, and rather unwieldy syllables (really too bad since this could be the highlight), and the organs which are beautifully recorded but not very well-served by SINE's functionality... yeah I don't know, it's just kind of a letdown as someone very fond of Pärt and the whole style. Like they had access to these musicians in this space and didn't exactly stick the landing.
> 
> I understand the incredible effort that goes into making these things, so I hesitate to criticize but....


I agree with most of this, except that I don't find I can get what the Tallinn string tone out of SCS. And I do love the Tallinn strings (SCS too!). I also find the choir somewhat disappointing. For me it's at best a supplement to EWC, and unwieldy is a good description of the syllables. And I wish OT had implemented the organ differently too. I don't regret the purchase, but it could have been better executed.


----------



## Futchibon

X-Bassist said:


> Albion 1... then Albion One... I've never bought another. Quickly went from last in the templete to gone. None of it compares to a good string, brass, wind, or perc library. And Spitfire falls short with their sound design patches. I've found very little in any of the Albions I like after watching all the walkthroughs. Really wish I could sell those I have.


Yeah Albion 1 never really appealed, although to be fair its initial release was before my time and it was then considered rather ground breaking? The problem for me is that it's good at a lot of things without being great at anything. Having said that, I adore Tundra and will likely snap up Neo in another sale. But Icini was underwhelming compared to MA1 and Uist looks very comprehensive for an aleatoric lib but was a strange choice for an Albion I thought. Solstice isn't really my cup of tea but it sounds nice.


----------



## Futchibon

Mike T said:


> I think that's a reasonable price for what is a really nice organ. Just know that it's not a very straightforward process to combine patches. Most of them are recorded combinations, but there are a few individual stops in there which you'd not likely use on their own and so may wish to layer with others.


Thanks, yeah I meant to say $60 (75 Aussie dollars) so it seems like a good deal. And I just watched Ben's Seraphim composing video again and it sounds quite lovely. Cheers



jbuhler said:


> I agree with most of this, except that I don't find I can get what the Tallinn string tone out of SCS. And I do love the Tallinn strings (SCS too!). I also find the choir somewhat disappointing. For me it's at best a supplement to EWC, and unwieldy is a good description of the syllables. And I wish OT had implemented the organ differently too. I don't regret the purchase, but it could have been better executed.


Was there any particular string instrument that stands out to you? I got the Viola from Tableau strings which is quite lovely and seems to be the standout of that library. Any equivalent in Tallin?

I don't have EWC so I'm finding the choir very nice, and I'm used to unwieldy (yet beautiful) with Insolidus


----------



## jbuhler

Futchibon said:


> Thanks, yeah I meant to say $60 (75 Aussie dollars) so it seems like a good deal. And I just watched Ben's Seraphim composing video again and it sounds quite lovely. Cheers
> 
> 
> Was there any particular string instrument that stands out to you? I got the Viola from Tableau strings which is quite lovely and seems to be the standout of that library. Any equivalent in Tallin?


The single bows expressive with legato turned on is very nice for all the instruments, and the higher dynamic layer of all the strings have some vibrato, compared to the pretty much non-vib lower dynamic layer. The violins on their own aren't really designed to carry a long melody, but they are excellent for accompaniment patterns, as is the whole library, so you have to go into with that in mind. (The cellos using the louder sample layer can carry a long melody a bit better.) I also find the SF first desk solo violin works really well as a complement to the Tallinn strings because you can turn the vibrato on and off. The SF first desk works much better than, say, the solo violins from the Berlin first chairs because the vibrato just doesn't mesh (to my ear). On the other side, the Berlin Special Bows sul tasto legato works very well layering with Tallinn. In any case, what I like about the Tallinn strings is how they play low vib in the gap between non-vib and vib. SCS can sort of do this, but it's not really engineered for that use the way Tallinn seems to be.


> I don't have EWC so I'm finding the choir very nice, and I'm used to unwieldy (yet beautiful) with Insolidus


Yes, it's a different kind of unwieldy than Insolidus. And it does offer syllables, which EWC doesn't have.


----------



## Alchemedia

doctoremmet said:


> ¿


So you're prescribing yoga now, eh doc?


----------



## Evans

jbuhler said:


> And it does offer syllables, which EWC doesn't have.


Woah, you're so wrong here. EWC has that "Nanana" patch.

One syllable, repeated, equals syllables plural.


----------



## Futchibon

jbuhler said:


> The single bows expressive with legato turned on is very nice for all the instruments, and the higher dynamic layer of all the strings have some vibrato, compared to the pretty much non-vib lower dynamic layer. The violins on their own aren't really designed to carry a long melody, but they are excellent for accompaniment patterns, as is the whole library, so you have to go into with that in mind. (The cellos using the louder sample layer can carry a long melody a bit better.) I also find the SF first desk solo violin works really well as a complement to the Tallinn strings because you can turn the vibrato on and off. The SF first desk works much better than, say, the solo violins from the Berlin first chairs because the vibrato just doesn't mesh (to my ear). On the other side, the Berlin Special Bows sul tasto legato works very well layering with Tallinn. In any case, what I like about the Tallinn strings is how they play low vib in the gap between non-vib and vib. SCS can sort of do this, but it's not really engineered for that use the way Tallinn seems to be.
> 
> Yes, it's a different kind of unwieldy than Insolidus. And it does offer syllables, which EWC doesn't have.


Thanks for the detailed response! I have Special Bows so will give that a go with the choir, organ and SCS, and then perhaps pick up the celli later on. 

Interestingly the viola seems to have the most articulations and the violins the least:


----------



## jbuhler

Futchibon said:


> Thanks for the detailed response! I have Special Bows so will give that a go with the choir, organ and SCS, and then perhaps pick up the celli later on.
> 
> Interestingly the viola seems to have the most articulations and the violins the least:


Yes, those added viola articulations are nice for textural effects too.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Mike T said:


> The most recent thing I'm kind of regretting is Tallinn.
> 
> These are beautiful recordings of exceptional musicians and instruments in a great space (I really desperately need more stuff recorded in large churches), and I'm glad to have (I assume) paid some royalties to the musicians involved. Despite all that, some of the sampling and programming choices severely restrict its usage for me. I'm a little uncertain of its future status on my list of owned/installed/uninstalled libraries and plugins at the moment....





jbuhler said:


> I agree with most of this, except that I don't find I can get what the Tallinn string tone out of SCS. And I do love the Tallinn strings (SCS too!). I also find the choir somewhat disappointing. For me it's at best a supplement to EWC, and unwieldy is a good description of the syllables. And I wish OT had implemented the organ differently too. I don't regret the purchase, but it could have been better executed.


Think you both just saved me some money. Curiosity almost got the best of me, but nice to wait for some more usage-based comments on new libraries.


----------



## Futchibon

doctoremmet said:


> iPhone: long press a key - gives options to pick all kinds of accents.


Not all of us can afford an iphone Doc - especially when our disposable income goes into sample libraries! My habit has got so bad I'm back to using 2 cans and a piece of string!


----------



## Casiquire

Futchibon said:


> Not all of us can afford an iphone Doc - especially when our disposable income goes into sample libraries! My habit has got so bad I'm back to using 2 cans and a piece of string!


Least you're getting better call quality than i am!


----------



## Wunderhorn

jbuhler said:


> Yes, it's a different kind of unwieldy than Insolidus. And it does offer syllables, which EWC doesn't have.


Would you mind expounding on that a little? Just curious. In what way did you feel it to be unwieldy?
I considered getting the Talinn choir as a possible supplement to EWC, especially because of the syllable arcs.
Did you work with these and how do they respond/fit into the workflow? Can you comment on how it sits/works with EWC or anything else you might have tried?


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> Only if you export the midi. You can't edit the phrases.


Lol! This is always a confusion. Export the midi from....oh sorry yea this IS really confusing yea you’re right, yes, something’s better.


----------



## jbuhler

Wunderhorn said:


> Would you mind expounding on that a little? Just curious. In what way did you feel it to be unwieldy?
> I considered getting the Talinn choir as a possible supplement to EWC, especially because of the syllable arcs.
> Did you work with these and how do they respond/fit into the workflow? Can you comment on how it sits/works with EWC or anything else you might have tried?


There are some timing issues that make placing the syllables harder than it should be. It’s not a deal killer, and the Tallinn choir does generally sit well with EWC.


----------



## Hendrixon

Jish said:


> A member on here I kind of enjoyed reading, pre-membership ('Sears Poncho' I think was his name...nowhere to be found now?) posted this clip some some years back, and I have re-visited ever since; what he pointed out as well that I had underestimated previous, was the specific size of the string section within the space itself (a medium-ish sized church) and what sound/tonality it produced- namely how the hall itself adds so much size/weight to the performance, while the section size maintains alot of detail in the process (though the 'tail' as so often is the case, is the tradeoff). He thought it was required viewing for anyone seriously considering writing for string's, and it's advice that helped me personally.



That's all fine, and maybe true in concept, but this video is not a live recording at all.
Which means we can't know where the recording actually took place and what size ensemble played.


----------



## CT

Hendrixon said:


> but this video is not a live recording at all.


What makes you say that?


----------



## Jish

Hendrixon said:


> That's all fine, and maybe true in concept, but this video is not a live recording at all.
> Which means we can't know where the recording actually too place and what size ensemble played.


Re-echoing the question Mike brought up above, what makes you conclude that from the 'Moon River' clip? Hopefully it's something other than an audio-to-footage sync (or lack thereof) effect, as there exists many a performance posted on youtube where this was the case- the imperfect sync in the uploaded video does not make the audio (performance) any less real, so I'd love to know where you're actually coming from with this point.

Also, it isn't actually 'maybe true' on a conceptual level....it's, well- _true_. I've bookmarked far too many performances in the past several years online alone that corroborate the point good old Sears originally made...and simply tweaking with and combining mic positions in Spitfire's Chamber Strings is a great example of this as well; they recorded what, 16 players? Some of the most lush, chordal-dense string examples I've heard to this day were produced using just that library. But if that point _really_ want's to be further challenged, that would be for a whole new thread.


----------



## Hendrixon

That video is compiled from at least 3-4 takes...
Watch the harmonica player, every scene cut she looks to a different side, she holds the harmonic down, then a cut happens and pufff she has it to her mouth. even anti gravity UFOs are not that fast
You see a shot taken where the camera man is between the players on the left, then the shot jumps to a wide view from the right side pointing left... and there is no camera or camera man there.

I would say this whole video was done with a single camera.
Very amateurish video production which exposes the fact its not a live recording or playing.


----------



## CT

Hendrixon said:


> That video is compiled from at least 3-4 takes...
> Watch the harmonica player, every scene cut she looks to a different side, she holds the harmonic down, then a cut happens and pufff she has it to her mouth. even anti gravity UFOs are not that fast
> You see a shot taken where the camera man is between the players on the left, then the shot jumps to a wide view from the right side pointing left... and there is no camera or camera man there.
> 
> I would say this whole video was done with a single camera.
> Very amateurish video production which exposes the fact its not a live recording or playing.


I'm pretty sure we're hearing the ensemble shown, in the space shown. Even if the _footage_ is edited from several takes, why would they have gone to the trouble of booking and setting up this particular venue only to then re-record elsewhere (with a different ensemble size)? Doesn't seem very sensible....


----------



## jonnelson1988

I now regret buying all of them that I have purchased. If I could go back, I would have purchase something like Composer Cloud or VSL Special Editions and learned how to actually use virtual instruments. I just wasted a bunch of money and I still don't know how to make them. I guess I should start over regardless. Man I have wasted a lot of money on sample libraries and courses that DON'T teach you how to use them.


----------



## Hendrixon

Mike T said:


> I'm pretty sure we're hearing the ensemble shown, in the space shown. Even if the _footage_ is edited from several takes, why would they have gone to the trouble of booking and setting up this particular venue only to then re-record elsewhere (with a different ensemble size)? Doesn't seem very sensible....


Its a church in London that holds concerts too.
Maybe they had a show there that evening? so they could've taken advantage of the situation to make a pretty promo video (which that's what it is, a promo video) at a nicer venue then a studio for a recording they've done prior. 
Things like that happen all the time. who knows.

All I said is that we don't see a video of a "live recording".


----------



## el-bo

jonnelson1988 said:


> I guess I should start over regardless.


If by "start over regardless', you mean actually buying VSL and/or subscribing to CC, perhaps that might not be the best approach


----------



## Casiquire

I've been surprised by how many "live" recordings we listen to aren't live recordings. I'm 0% upset about it


----------



## kgdrum

@Casiquire 

Many, many years ago(1980) I was recording in a very good recording studio with a band I was playing in at the time here in NYC,it might have been the Power Station,it’s so long ago I really can’t remember.
The engineer told us a story about a very famous chart topping LIVE album from one of the top bands of the late 70’s early 80’s. They recorded their entire album live but the master tapes accidentally were destroyed so the band re-recorded the entire LIVE record (I think)live in the studio and then added the audience and background noise.
This created one of the most commercially successful LIVE albums of the 70’s and 80’s and for all of you internet detectives I’m not talking about Peter Frampton’s album…….


----------



## Pappaus

If we are derailing the topic temporarily, I have read (I have no proof)that Kiss Alive pumped in crowd noise (”to accurately reproduce the excitement of the actual live event”) And that Europe 72 by the Dead had a bundle of overdubs (a lot of vocals ). It is a bit like the uncertainty principle in physics - the act of capturing an event will always alter the event.
To get back to topic - Tons of regrets but they are never the fault of the manufacturer, but of my lack of time to properly learn how to use them.


----------



## Markrs

Pappaus said:


> Tons of regrets but they are never the fault of the manufacturer, but of my lack of time to properly learn how to use them.


I don't really have any regrets, even my early mistakes taught me something, but the only regret is the lack of time to learn the libraries. I could also counter that if I bought less, I would be able to learn the smaller number of libraries better.


----------



## CT

Hendrixon said:


> All I said is that we don't see a video of a "live recording".


Yes, with the implication that the audio was also therefore suspect. Just seemed like a bit of a stretch to me, and if this footage was from a live performance to show off a studio recording, how'd they manage all the takes required for the single camera operation you speculated was at work? Unless there were several performances and everyone wore the same attire to each. 

Anyway, as you say, "who knows?" But the sound speaks for itself I think, in that video and the few others on the channel.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Mike T said:


> Yes, with the implication that the audio was also therefore suspect. Just seemed like a bit of a stretch to me, and if this footage was from a live performance to show off a studio recording, how'd they manage all the takes required for the single camera operation you speculated was at work? Unless there were several performances and everyone wore the same attire to each.
> 
> Anyway, as you say, "who knows?" But the sound speaks for itself I think, in that video and the few others on the channel.


Sorry if I'm missing something, but the Tallins audio is definitely just from the library, in case that's in dispute.


----------



## CT

It is miket strings. Everyone at VI-Control will regret purchasing them.

(We're not talking about the Tallinn videos, by the way, just a weird digression)


----------



## Peter Williams

Oh, I've got one. Broadway Big Band Lites! Got it on sale for about 100 dollars and I've struggled mightily to get the legato harmonizer to work properly (Kontakt 5.8). The ccs go all over the place, rendering the recording and even playing impossible (Cubase 9.5). It's the "interesting software" that a fortune cookie fortune bestowed upon me. Anybody found a way to tame this beast? It can sound so good but controlling the jumps, bumps and the dropouts is hard.


----------



## kgdrum

Peter Williams said:


> Oh, I've got one. Broadway Big Band Lites! Got it on sale for about 100 dollars and I've struggled mightily to get the legato harmonizer to work properly (Kontakt 5.8). The ccs go all over the place, rendering the recording and even playing impossible (Cubase 9.5). It's the "interesting software" that a fortune cookie fortune bestowed upon me. Anybody found a way to tame this beast? It can sound so good but controlling the jumps, bumps and the dropouts is hard.


+1 I think I mentioned this as my most regrettable sample library purchase earlier in the thread ,what a horrible disappointment & waste of space. 👎


----------



## zwhita

kgdrum said:


> Many, many years ago(1980)….


Ugh. Is 1980 really that long ago now? I was a happy 2nd grader who took piano lessons and went to Sunday School. Sorry, guess I'm old, back to the topic.


----------



## kgdrum

zwhita said:


> Ugh. Is 1980 really that long ago now? I was a happy 2nd grader who took piano lessons and went to Sunday School. Sorry, guess I'm old, back to the topic.


Well I definitely wasn’t a 2nd grader at that time and you feel old? lol


----------



## Casiquire

I can tell you what I was up to in 1980 if you REALLY want to feel old


----------



## Double Helix

Casiquire said:


> I can tell you what I was up to in 1980 *if you REALLY want to feel old*


I require absolutely no assistance, @Casiquire, but I'd be curious nonetheless


----------



## Pappaus

Hopefully this will make everyone feel less old - I was in my first year of college in 1980.


----------



## Trash Panda

I was a few years away from being conceived in 1980. You’re welcome.


----------



## Casiquire

Trash Panda said:


> I was a few years away from being conceived in 1980. You’re welcome.


Yep. My parents were children lol


----------



## Trash Panda

Casiquire said:


> Yep. My parents were children lol


Now you’re making me feel old.


----------



## Hendrixon

Casiquire said:


> I can tell you what I was up to in 1980 if you REALLY want to feel old


Taking sperm swimming lessons?

Edit:
Apparently I was far far off lol


----------



## Rilla

xsubs said:


> After a couple weeks now of trying hard to get them to work in my arrangements, I have to say that Straight Ahead's Tenor Colossus and Birth of the Trumpet are very disappointing.
> 
> AM SWAM Saxes and SM Trumpet 3 absolutely slay them. I do have to add that I use the TEC BBC2 with them, which makes them come alive. I can see not caring for them, if using them without a breath controller.
> 
> Live and learn...


I'm not surprised.

As a pro saxophonist and amateur trumpeter, I simply don't see how a sample library is going to come off as realistic UNLESS it has a physical modeling aspect. SM instruments were the first wind VI's that finally blew me away and made me say, "so it IS possible!!". SM instruments are like real instruments, as in if you know how to play them, they WILL sound like the real thing, or barely distinguishable from the real thing.


----------



## MaxOctane

Markrs said:


> I don't really have any regrets, even my early mistakes taught me something, but the only regret is the lack of time to learn the libraries. I could also counter that if I bought less, I would be able to learn the smaller number of libraries better.


So true. Every new library, synth, guitar, and pedal just means the others get used that much less.


----------



## from_theashes

My only regret so far: Spitfire Studio Brass
It just doesn‘t sound good…. I‘m so much more happy with Hollywood Brass Gold.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Pappaus said:


> Hopefully this will make everyone feel less old - I was in my first year of college in 1980.


I was -5


----------



## mussnig

from_theashes said:


> My only regret so far: Spitfire Studio Brass
> It just doesn‘t sound good…. I‘m so much more happy with Hollywood Brass Gold.


I agree it has some problems and out of the box the sound is not really flattering. There have been a couple of updates and a couple of issues have been fixed and scripting seems to have improved. Still, in my opinion the library really needs a good reverb to shine and the tree mic from the non-pro edition is not really ideal for this (because it will always sound like putting a room on top of another room). 

However, apart from some occassional inconsistencies (which in my opinion are at least in the present state of the library comparable to others), the library can really sound good. Still, some issues remain and I am bit disappointed they even made it into the initial release ...


----------



## from_theashes

mussnig said:


> I agree it has some problems and out of the box the sound is not really flattering. There have been a couple of updates and a couple of issues have been fixed and scripting seems to have improved. Still, in my opinion the library really needs a good reverb to shine and the tree mic from the non-pro edition is not really ideal for this (because it will always sound like putting a room on top of another room).
> 
> However, apart from some occassional inconsistencies (which in my opinion are at least in the present state of the library comparable to others), the library can really sound good. Still, some issues remain and I am bit disappointed they even made it into the initial release ...


Would be interested to hear a good mix for the horns in the pro version, if you have one. Those were my biggest complains.

I really enjoy Studio Strings Pro and Studio Woods Core though.


----------



## mussnig

from_theashes said:


> Would be interested to hear a good mix for the horns in the pro version, if you have one. Those were my biggest complains.
> 
> I really enjoy Studio Strings Pro and Studio Woods Core though.


I recently posted a couple of tracks that use SStO here:






Spitfire Audio Announces Coming Soon Spring Sale


Did someone mention a Green Screen? I'm just editing some green screen stuff as we speak ...




vi-control.net





Probably nothing that is too much exposed but maybe it helps.


----------



## mussnig

from_theashes said:


> Would be interested to hear a good mix for the horns in the pro version, if you have one. Those were my biggest complains.
> 
> I really enjoy Studio Strings Pro and Studio Woods Core though.





mussnig said:


> I recently posted a couple of tracks that use SStO here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio Announces Coming Soon Spring Sale
> 
> 
> Did someone mention a Green Screen? I'm just editing some green screen stuff as we speak ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably nothing that is too much exposed but maybe it helps.


PS: Also just remembered that I posted some more exposed examples in this thread (but since you were also commenting there, you have probably already seen this)





Spitfire Studio Brass Updates.


Took me a minute, but GUI refreshed too? It's been a while since I actually looked at it. This looks so much cleaner... I hope Spitfire will upgrade the whole Studio Series to that GUI The GUI looks more like the Universal Audio Luna Spitfire expansions. Hope they make them bigger or use...




vi-control.net


----------



## ag75

LauraC said:


> yep - I'm headed that way, too.


Agree. I have NEVER used any of their libraries on a project and I own so many of them. 12 days of Christmas just gets me excited I guess. I can’t resist a good sale.


----------



## ag75

Orchestral Tools LA Sessions. I was so excited to buy this library but honestly I have better sampled guitars, drums and basses. I guess this would be a good library to buy if you didn’t already have great sounding “band” libraries. I really thought I was going to enjoy this one more.


----------



## ludwig66661

so far Spitfire BBCSO Professional, the interface is beautiful but not efficient... soloist strings useless to me... I would have sacrificed the half of the mic positions for more dinamic layers. for strings for example you have vibrato and non vibrato, and that's all... with this kind of restrictions it is very complex to achieve realistic interpretations... If i could sell it I would do it for 1/5 of the price...


----------



## Trash Panda

ludwig66661 said:


> so far Spitfire BBCSO Professional, the interface is beautiful but not efficient... soloist strings useless to me... I would have sacrificed the half of the mic positions for more dinamic layers. for strings for example you have vibrato and non vibrato, and that's all... with this kind of restrictions it is very complex to achieve realistic interpretations... If i could sell it I would do it for 1/5 of the price...


----------



## Michael Antrum

My regret is Project Sam Symphobia.

It was my first proper library, and I love it to this day.

If only I had hated it, I'd have carried on just playing the piano, and studying Jazz and music theory.....

It would have saved me a bloody fortune......


----------



## Chris Harper

Michael Antrum said:


> My regret is Project Sam Symphobia.
> 
> It was my first proper library, and I love it to this day.
> 
> If only I had hated it, I'd have carried on just playing the piano, and studying Jazz and music theory.....
> 
> It would have saved me a bloody fortune......


And here I was, hoping you would say something that would talk me out availing myself of the current sale.


----------



## chrisav

ag75 said:


> Orchestral Tools LA Sessions. I was so excited to buy this library but honestly I have better sampled guitars, drums and basses. I guess this would be a good library to buy if you didn’t already have great sounding “band” libraries. I really thought I was going to enjoy this one more.


I was just about to mention LA Sessions here when I read your post. Extremely underwhelming purchase imo, not at all aided by it being on my arch nemesis the Sine player (I admittedly should've thought it through a bit more before ordering). At least it taught me to not fall for OT's pre-order price shenanigans again!


----------



## musicisum

Michael Antrum said:


> My regret is Project Sam Symphobia.
> 
> It was my first proper library, and I love it to this day.
> 
> If only I had hated it, I'd have carried on just playing the piano, and studying Jazz and music theory.....
> 
> It would have saved me a bloody fortune......


I can relate so much… I think it was one of Daniel James' videos that featured symphobia where I was like _"wtf how is that even possible"_…


----------



## VSriHarsha

Well, I don’t say it’s kind of a regret but I find the Kontakt version of VSCO 2 got a lot of things really bother me. I mean the sound is good but the knobs act weird. You just can’t turn those around in one damn shot. It takes turns. I don’t know but it won’t just respond to the mouse pretty quick & it moves odd. And the other thing is that if it plays the note, sometimes, it will just sustain the note, even after the actual duration. It won’t stop. If you stop & play from that part, it’ll still be the same, unless you actually click on that specific note & it will then stop. You just can’t rely on it, for the entire track. Well, mostly the knobs bother me a lot than this. So, I just deleted the Kontakt version. How are the vst & au versions?


----------



## bill5

ludwig66661 said:


> so far Spitfire BBCSO Professional, the interface is beautiful but not efficient... soloist strings useless to me...


Maybe that's why they were left out of Core


----------



## Minsky

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Ditto. I like a couple of the pianos and the odd VI, but on a whole, not worth even close to what it costs.


Yeah, I have to agree. I stopped upgrading a while ago. A few nice instruments but about 80% that I don't ever go near because I have other stuff that does it better.


----------



## Minsky

dsblais said:


> _Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra._ It's not bad, but have not found it at the level of VSL or OT and it was too expensive.
> 
> _Iconica Opus._ Despite being a joint Steinberg-OT project, I just haven't found this very playable. The Halion player is likely part of the reason.
> 
> _Cinematic Studio Solo Strings. _So much vibrato, huge footprint, and not nearly as playable as I'd like.
> 
> _SWAM Violin and Cello_. I'd like to think this was just operator error, but I have not been able to get the tone (versus the technique) anywhere near as realistic as good sample based libraries.
> 
> (Disclaimer: I like to play VIs as actual instruments. Carefully programmed sound possibilities are less significant to me than what it "feels" like as a player.)


Yeah CSSS vibrato... what is THAT about? Really spoils it.


----------



## TomislavEP

With the current state of Spitfire Labs and Pianobook projects regarding their quality and diversity, I now regret buying many boutique libraries from the smaller developers, although I'm happy to support their work whenever I can. Making ends meet with music, buying a larger and expensive library is always a challenge and something I'm always trying to justify, so for a long time, I was prone to buying these smaller titles instead, especially when on discount. However, this quickly adds up. Over time, I've discovered that larger collections have more value for me in the long run. On the other hand, there simply weren't so many great free VI's and libraries when I've started building my toolkit several years ago.


----------



## mybadmemory

TomislavEP said:


> With the current state of Spitfire Labs and Pianobook projects regarding their quality and diversity, I now regret buying many boutique libraries from the smaller developers, although I'm happy to support their work whenever I can. Making ends meet with music, buying a larger and expensive library is always a challenge and something I'm always trying to justify, so for a long time, I was prone to buying these smaller titles instead, especially when on discount. However, this quickly adds up. Over time, I've discovered that larger collections have more value for me in the long run. On the other hand, there simply weren't so many great free VI's and libraries when I've started building my toolkit several years ago.


I agree. Today the best investment you can make is probably to start with just one major library, and then supplement that with all the amazing free things available for anything that’s outside of the main orchestra.


----------



## VSriHarsha

ludwig66661 said:


> so far Spitfire BBCSO Professional, the interface is beautiful but not efficient... soloist strings useless to me... I would have sacrificed the half of the mic positions for more dinamic layers. for strings for example you have vibrato and non vibrato, and that's all... with this kind of restrictions it is very complex to achieve realistic interpretations... If i could sell it I would do it for 1/5 of the price...


Well, tell them that & see what they have to say.


----------



## Trash Panda

Trash Panda said:


> Majestica and Lacrimosa. Basically won’t buy another 8dio library after those. Much better options for cheaper without waiting for a gimmicky sale.


Alright, so I've gone back and tested out these two libraries on a few WIP tracks they're more suited for and I have to say...mea culpa. I was wrong. If used in the right context, these are actually quite good at what they are meant to do.

I apologize for the harsh comments, @Troels Folmann. My opinion on 8dio stuff is drastically turning around the more I give it a fair shake.


----------



## jaketanner

ludwig66661 said:


> for strings for example you have vibrato and non vibrato, and that's all... with this kind of restrictions it is very complex to achieve realistic interpretations


I don't know of any string library that has true vibrato recorded , they're mostly just imitated vibrato. What I would like to see added to the on/off, is a nice crossfade so they're not so abrupt.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

jaketanner said:


> I don't know of any string library that has true vibrato recorded


Maybe I'm not understanding you here. You are saying most string libraries record the players without vibrato, then they add it later via script? Hmmm .


----------



## Casiquire

jaketanner said:


> I don't know of any string library that has true vibrato recorded , they're mostly just imitated vibrato. What I would like to see added to the on/off, is a nice crossfade so they're not so abrupt.


I'm confused by this comment too. I think recording true vibrato is the standard, not the exception


----------



## doctoremmet

Casiquire said:


> I'm confused by this comment too. I think recording true vibrato is the standard, not the exception


Same. I’m hearing loads and loads of recorded vibrato in almost all of my samples? Maybe with the exception of Chris Hein.


----------



## ism

The NI solo strings, as well as most of Embertone, and I think CH, generally simulate vibrato.


----------



## Trash Panda

CSS, Audio Imperia, Performance Samples, Spitfire, 8dio, EWHO all use recorded vibrato. You can tell by looking at the number of voices active and available for cross-fade (dynamic layers x vibrato layers).


----------



## Casiquire

doctoremmet said:


> Same. I’m hearing loads and loads of recorded vibrato in almost all of my samples? Maybe with the exception of Chris Hein.


Even with Hein 😁 most patches are recorded with natural vibrato. Artificial vibrato is an option but i never use it


----------



## José Herring

Trash Panda said:


> Alright, so I've gone back and tested out these two libraries on a few WIP tracks they're more suited for and I have to say...mea culpa. I was wrong. If used in the right context, these are actually quite good at what they are meant to do.
> 
> I apologize for the harsh comments, @Troels Folmann. My opinion on 8dio stuff is drastically turning around the more I give it a fair shake.


They take a bit of getting use to. Man at first I hated my Century Brass samples, now I don't know what I'd do without them. Sometimes I put them in and when they work they really really work. I don't have a lot of 8dio but I suspect that's going to be the case for most of his libraries.


----------



## Trash Panda

José Herring said:


> They take a bit of getting use to. Man at first I hated my Century Brass samples, now I don't know what I'd do without them. Sometimes I put them in and when they work they really really work. I don't have a lot of 8dio but I suspect that's going to be the case for most of his libraries.


I'll be honest. I was spoiled by Audio Imperia and CSS. They just did what I expected out of the box, but they were designed for the applications I had in mind at the time.


----------



## jaketanner

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Maybe I'm not understanding you here. You are saying most string libraries record the players without vibrato, then they add it later via script? Hmmm .


The libraries that have control over vibrato, are usually simulated. Might be real at full vibrato, but some use an LFO to achieve this. I’m pretty sure this is the case. Of course not all.


----------



## jaketanner

Trash Panda said:


> CSS, Audio Imperia, Performance Samples, Spitfire, 8dio, EWHO all use recorded vibrato. You can tell by looking at the number of voices active and available for cross-fade (dynamic layers x vibrato layers).


But the vibrato is not controllable when it’s recorded. Usually on/off unless I missed something. It’s real, but baked into the samples. NOW…with some libraries like CSS, there is less vibrato on softer dynamics and more on louder dynamics, but it’s still baked in.


----------



## Trash Panda

jaketanner said:


> The libraries that have control over vibrato, are usually simulated. Might be real at full vibrato, but some use an LFO to achieve this. I’m pretty sure this is the case. Of course not all.


Are you including libraries with vibrato cross fades?


----------



## jaketanner

Casiquire said:


> I'm confused by this comment too. I think recording true vibrato is the standard, not the exception


Yes it’s recorded, but we are talking about controllable vibrato. That is usually simulated. It’s very hard to have controllable vibrato that is actually recorded at various dynamics. It’s just less vibrato naturally on the lower dynamics than loud.


----------



## Marsen

jaketanner said:


> The libraries that have control over vibrato, are usually simulated. Might be real at full vibrato, but some use an LFO to achieve this. I’m pretty sure this is the case. Of course not all.


This is not quiet right.
Most libraries with controllable vibrato like OT or SF, CS have natural recorded vibrato. Truth is, it's just a switch between non and con vibrato at a certain threshold. There is no crossfade or such.
Seemingless growing vibrato is a sign for simulated vibrato like in Cremona Quartett.


----------



## Casiquire

jaketanner said:


> Yes it’s recorded, but we are talking about controllable vibrato. That is usually simulated. It’s very hard to have controllable vibrato that is actually recorded at various dynamics. It’s just less vibrato naturally on the lower dynamics than loud.


I believe those are still recorded vibrato samples though. I think most libraries record at several dynamics of vibrato and several nv. I know that's how MSS, LASS, HS are since I've used those three extensively and I don't want to speak on libraries i don't know


----------



## devonmyles

All purchased during sales a few years ago including the rest as Christmas time freebies:
Capriccio/Minimal/Ostinato Strings/Ostinato Brass/Ostinato Woodwinds and Ostinato Noir.

They all sound very nice but, I didn't get any use out of these particular phrase based libraries.
No matter how hard I tried I just couldn't get into that way of working/composing. In the end I just deleted them from my hard drives.

Mostly, I choose wisely, with plenty of listening research and watching walk through videos, but with these libraries, I got rather carried away.
Probably, more to do with initially getting reeled in with the freebies, I suppose.


----------



## jaketanner

Marsen said:


> This is not quiet right.
> Most libraries with controllable vibrato like OT or SF, CS have natural recorded vibrato. Truth is, it's just a switch between non and con vibrato at a certain threshold. There is no crossfade or such.
> Seemingless growing vibrato is a sign for simulated vibrato like in Cremona Quartett.


Exactly. It’s on or off. Not controllable. That’s what I’ve been saying. That controllable vibrato is usually simulated.


----------



## Jorf88

Trash Panda said:


> Alright, so I've gone back and tested out these two libraries on a few WIP tracks they're more suited for and I have to say...mea culpa. I was wrong. If used in the right context, these are actually quite good at what they are meant to do.
> 
> I apologize for the harsh comments, @Troels Folmann. My opinion on 8dio stuff is drastically turning around the more I give it a fair shake.


This is the type of humble honesty we could all use more of. I applaud you for that.

I actually have a few 8dio libraries I need to revisit, myself. (Namely Majestica, with the new update.)


----------



## Living Fossil

jaketanner said:


> Yes it’s recorded, but we are talking about controllable vibrato. That is usually simulated. It’s very hard to have controllable vibrato that is actually recorded at various dynamics. It’s just less vibrato naturally on the lower dynamics than loud.


When an ensemble plays vibrato, the vibrato speed of the players are not synched. So in order to get a "controllable" vibrato you'd need to record every player on his own, set parameters for his vibrato and then mix the 10-16 players together. I haven't heard of this approach yet. I've only heard of artificial vibrato for soloists (and even then it's unnatural, since by changing the pitch you also change the size of the resonator - the instrument itself.
Applying one LFO to a section would not only sound extremely unnatural but even ridiculous.


----------



## averystemmler

jaketanner said:


> Exactly. It’s on or off. Not controllable. That’s what I’ve been saying. That controllable vibrato is usually simulated.



If you're talking about instruments that give you independent control over the rate and depth of the vibrato, then yes, that's probably an LFO and usually the effect is pretty obvious. 

Most modern sample libraries of more than one player (e.g. a string section) that offer a vibrato control, however, are cross-fading between different sampled levels and styles of vibrato. You can usually see it represented in the voice count in Kontakt (as someone mentioned), and you can even occasionally hear the layers phasing with each other if it's not programmed carefully.

The number of sampled vibrato layers are usually pretty limited, since they have to be multiplied by the number of dynamics and accounted for in legato transitions. In some libraries (SCS, for instance), the legato articulations actually have fewer available vibrato layers than the standard "longs" articulation for this reason.


----------



## Alchemedia

Sears Poncho said:


> "Funk" does not come from a computer, I have learned.


I'll bet Clyde Stubblefield had a funky computer.


----------



## Ricgus3

Pretty sure audio imperia uses non-vib on its string legatos. On of the things I don’t enjoy (from my favorite developer audio imperia) is the vibrato speed. To me it really sounds unnatural so I tend to use it a 30-40% on the knob with automation for higher dynamics.


----------



## Marcus Millfield

NI Komplete - which turned out to be a really expensive Kontakt license as I don't use the rest
NI Symphony Series - not workable, sold it. I had more fun using the Kontakt Factory Library, which is underrated as far as I'm concerned.
IK MODO Drums - because I bought it full price at launch, after which they dropped the price significantly. I still use it though, only not for a complete drum kit.


----------



## Dr.Quest

I regret buying Sonokinetic's Grosso and Minimal. Both have proved to be problems playing especially Grosso. On the other hand I purchased Indie at Intro price and absolutley love it. It plays well, superb selection of useful parts and sounds great with other libraries. I wish I would have gone with Largo or Sotto instead of Grosso.


----------



## bill5

As I explained in a separate thread, 8Dio's Spirit Flute. Not a VI at all, just a series of random phrases. Back to Xaxophone I guess.


----------



## bill5

Alex Fraser said:


> Surely I'm the only VIC member who hasn't got Omnisphere?


Nope. As with Kontakt, it would have to be discounted VERY steeply for me to think about it. In fact more so than I'm sure it ever will be.




dsblais said:


> While Omnisphere has a vast collection of sounds, I don’t think anyone who isn’t looking for synth sounds really has a need for it. In particular, it’s not going to get a person far at all if they want to make orchestral music. I have it and like it, but it is, dare I say it, overrated for non-EDM uses.


I hope you're not equating "synth sounds" with "EDM" - ?


----------



## benwiggy

All of them, I think.  

The only one that's lived up to expectations is NotePerformer -- which uses AI to synthesise phrases, rather than just triggering samples. It only works with notation software - Finale, Sibelius, Dorico - interpreting the notes to create orchestral audio.

EW Symphonic Choirs Play VST is terribly unstable for me; SoundIron's Requiem Light is terribly out of tune; Miroire is full of needless limitations.


----------



## from_theashes

from_theashes said:


> My only regret so far: Spitfire Studio Brass
> It just doesn‘t sound good…. I‘m so much more happy with Hollywood Brass Gold.


Audio Imperia Areia Lite: even on intro sale it was just a waste of money. Inconsistency in volume (volume jumps) throughout the whole library And just not a great sound. Big let down for me.


----------



## Ben H

EW Ra + EW Silk.

I have so many better ethnic libraries than these two.
I wish I could sell them both.


----------



## Loerpert

Out of all those that I have, Spitfire Symphonic Motions is the only one I really regret buying.


----------



## EpicMusicGuy

Marcus Millfield said:


> NI Komplete - which turned out to be a really expensive Kontakt license as I don't use the rest
> NI Symphony Series - not workable, sold it. I had more fun using the Kontakt Factory Library, which is underrated as far as I'm concerned.
> IK MODO Drums - because I bought it full price at launch, after which they dropped the price significantly. I still use it though, only not for a complete drum kit.


I thought you couldn't sell libraries when bought as part of komplete?
Or maybe you didn't get it through komplete?


----------



## Marcus Millfield

EpicMusicGuy said:


> I thought you couldn't sell libraries when bought as part of komplete?
> Or maybe you didn't get it through komplete?



That's correct. I just had Komplete (not Umtimate etc) at the time and bought the Symphony series separately.


----------



## daviddln

Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition. It's not that it's bad. But there are much better libraries on the market (Synchron, Spitfire, CSS, OT...).


----------



## Jackal_King

Spitfire Intimate Strings. The longs and long CS is fine but everything else seems either too low in terms of volume or just sounds "meh".


----------



## doctoremmet

Jackal_King said:


> Spitfire Intimate Strings. The longs and long CS is fine but everything else seems either too low in terms of volume or just sounds "meh".


You mean 8Dio? Or Studio Strings?


----------



## mussnig

doctoremmet said:


> You mean 8Dio? Or Studio Strings?


I think he means this one, which is based on the discontinued Albion II:








Spitfire Audio — Originals Intimate Strings


Achingly emotional and detailed performances



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## doctoremmet

mussnig said:


> I think he means this one, which is based on the discontinued Albion II:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio — Originals Intimate Strings
> 
> 
> Achingly emotional and detailed performances
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com


Ah yes. I even have it, but was utterly confused there for a moment. Apologies. More coffee.


----------



## Markrs

What I love about this thread is that it highlights how much individual perspective affect whether we like something or not.

There are lots of libraries I love, but other people regret buying. 

I normally think that if it is cheap enough I am less likely to regret it, which is why I buy too many "bargains". However there are others that believe it is better to go more expensive like VSL or OT, rather than buying similar things twice or three times. VSL and OT have never really appealed to me though.

One good thing is I like the sound from cheaper companies like 8Dio. The negative to that is I always get tempted by their on-going sales! 🤣


----------



## Jackal_King

doctoremmet said:


> You mean 8Dio? Or Studio Strings?


Originals Intimate Strings. It was my first Spitfire that I bought last year.


----------



## zedmaster

No purchase regrets so far. Only reminders to myself that I should use some more often than I do. But I know they are there for me when I need them


----------



## doctoremmet

Jackal_King said:


> Originals Intimate Strings. It was my first Spitfire that I bought last year.


Yes. For ensembles and for the thing they’re aiming for (and considering the $29 price tag) I find them pretty amazing hehe. But like I said, I was somehow going through a short phase of dementia


----------



## from_theashes

Markrs said:


> What I love about this thread is that it highlights how much individual perspective affect whether we like something or not.
> 
> There are lots of libraries I love, but other people regret buying.
> 
> I normally think that if it is cheap enough I am less likely to regret it, which is why I buy too many "bargains". However there are others that believe it is better to go more expensive like VSL or OT, rather than buying similar things twice or three times. VSL and OT have never really appealed to me though.
> 
> One good thing is I like the sound from cheaper companies like 8Dio. The negative to that is I always get tempted by their on-going sales! 🤣


Yep, it’s totally subjective. One man‘s trash is another man‘s treasure.


----------



## bill5

zedmaster said:


> No purchase regrets so far.


You're new at this, aren't you?


----------



## muziksculp

Spitfire Audio : BHCTK


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Spitfire Audio : BHCTK


Just curious - why specifically? I don't have it but keep thinking about getting it when it is on sale.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> Just curious - why specifically? I don't have it but keep thinking about getting it when it is on sale.


First : I'm not a fan of using baked combination patches. It was my mistake to buy it in the first place, so I'm not blaming anyone. I guess it was just a bit of extra GAS that contributed to the bad decision to buy it at the time.

Second : I don't fancy many of the sounds they have in the library, they just don't align with my taste. I love using BBCSO Pro, their Symphonic Libraries, and Chamber Strings. But BHCTK doesn't fit in for me.

Third : The library was quite pricy, and uses a lot of SSD space. (For me a waste of money and SSD space). I can surely use the SSD space for more useful libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> Just curious - why specifically? I don't have it but keep thinking about getting it when it is on sale.


My advice is evaluate it very carefully before you spend your money on this library.

It hasn't been a library that I used to complement other libraries, or instruments, and it might just be a purely taste matter, but at the end of the day, when a library does not contribute to my needs, I consider it a waste, and a big mistake. This one is surely a big mistake. I would even say, the biggest mistake for me.

I might add, how frequently do you come across mentions of this library being used alone, or to complement other libraries. in my experience so far super rare. Which should give you some indication as to how useful it is.


----------



## Casiquire

bill5 said:


> You're new at this, aren't you?


I've found there's a pretty close correlation between avoiding impulse buys and library satisfaction. I almost never buy out of impulse, and in the last decade I've only had two regrets, and one of them is the old OLD EastWest solo violin for 49 bucks which i don't even think they sell anymore. So that's a good track record. I feel like the people who grab up every library as soon as it's out tend to have more regrets too. There seems to be a benefit to waiting a while after a library comes out, long enough to counteract the GAS, MUST HAVE THE SHINY NEW TOY instinct. I'll usually research a library for weeks before i make up my mind.

That's not to say that it's foolproof. I think most people, no matter how careful, do run into a library here or there that doesn't work out the way they wanted


----------



## bill5

Casiquire said:


> I've found there's a pretty close correlation between avoiding impulse buys and library satisfaction.


That makes total sense and probably true generally, but not the case for me. I'm a serious window shopper and deliberate before buying, even with cheap plugins. Still it's been a mixed bag...I guess it's inevitable as you can only glean so much from demos and etc.


----------



## dzilizzi

Casiquire said:


> I've found there's a pretty close correlation between avoiding impulse buys and library satisfaction. I almost never buy out of impulse, and in the last decade I've only had two regrets, and one of them is the old OLD EastWest solo violin for 49 bucks which i don't even think they sell anymore. So that's a good track record. I feel like the people who grab up every library as soon as it's out tend to have more regrets too. There seems to be a benefit to waiting a while after a library comes out, long enough to counteract the GAS, MUST HAVE THE SHINY NEW TOY instinct. I'll usually research a library for weeks before i make up my mind.
> 
> That's not to say that it's foolproof. I think most people, no matter how careful, do run into a library here or there that doesn't work out the way they wanted


This is the thing for me. I will impulse buy cheap libraries. A lot of which I really have no use for. Some of which I later discover are pretty cool after first writing them off. I don't really regret anything I've bought, but I think if I were starting over, I would have bought a whole lot less effects. I have a ton of EQ's and generally use the one that came with ProTools or basic Waves. Same with compressors. I even have too many reverbs, if one can really admit to that. But libraries? Yeah, I'm okay with too many of those.


----------



## bill5

dzilizzi said:


> This is the thing for me. I will impulse buy cheap libraries. A lot of which I really have no use for.


I'm not above that.  especially if it's REALLY cheap, like a few bucks. The other day I bought a harpsichord from Sampletekk. A harpsichord. I need that like tits on a bull. But who knows, I may find a use one day.


----------



## Colin66

bill5 said:


> I'm not above that.  especially if it's REALLY cheap, like a few bucks. The other day I bought a harpsichord from Sampletekk. A harpsichord. I need that like tits on a bull. But who knows, I may find a use one day.


The thing with stuff like that is to try using it in a way that wouldn't normally happen....try using it with some guitar fx pedals, delay, reverb, fuzz, wah-wah, stuff like that. Maybe a Harpsichord is better when it doesn't sound like a Harpsichord? Think Henry 8th meets Jimi Hendrix!!


----------



## ism

Casiquire said:


> I've found there's a pretty close correlation between avoiding impulse buys and library satisfaction. I almost never buy out of impulse, and in the last decade I've only had two regrets, and one of them is the old OLD EastWest solo violin for 49 bucks which i don't even think they sell anymore. So that's a good track record. I feel like the people who grab up every library as soon as it's out tend to have more regrets too. There seems to be a benefit to waiting a while after a library comes out, long enough to counteract the GAS, MUST HAVE THE SHINY NEW TOY instinct. I'll usually research a library for weeks before i make up my mind.
> 
> That's not to say that it's foolproof. I think most people, no matter how careful, do run into a library here or there that doesn't work out the way they wanted


On the other hand, sometime you just know. Right when you hear a library for the first time. You just know.


----------



## Casiquire

ism said:


> On the other hand, sometime you just know. Right when you hear a library for the first time. You just know.


I have yet to experience that. The closest was the sound of Vista, but I'm glad i held off, because I'm trying out the one octave demo right now and the loop points are very short, very loud, and very obvious. I haven't decided if i can tolerate that. I do really love that Jasper made such a demo available. More devs should. I'm sure to buy his products some day


----------



## bill5

Casiquire said:


> I have yet to experience that.


Me either. How anyone can from demos and videos amazes me.


----------



## ism

bill5 said:


> Me either. How anyone can from demos and videos amazes me.


Maybe you just haven't found the right library yet?


----------



## Marsen

muziksculp said:


> I might add, how frequently do you come across mentions of this library being used alone, or to complement other libraries. in my experience so far super rare. Which should give you some indication as to how useful it is.



What I read here is: You made a mistake, you regret it, and now you want others to badmouth this library .
This is a bit schoolmastery, don't you think.
It's a Bernard Herrmann library. If you don't like the sound of Bernard Herrmann, others also should share your opinion?

Just my 2 cent. And this is all, I have to say to this.


----------



## bill5

ism said:


> Maybe you just haven't found the right library yet?


I have found VIs/libraries I'm very happy with. But I didn't know I would be until I installed it and used it for awhile.


----------



## muziksculp

Marsen said:


> What I read here is: You made a mistake, you regret it, and now you want others to badmouth this library .
> This is a bit schoolmastery, don't you think.
> It's a Bernard Herrmann library. If you don't like the sound of Bernard Herrmann, others also should share your opinion?
> 
> Just my 2 cent. And this is all, I have to say to this.


Did you read my post carefully ?

I mentioned why I didn't like it. It's not like they perfected this library, but rather, far from it. I love BH's music, but not this library. I'm aware that other users like it. So, I'm just giving my personal opinion, and I'm free to do that. 

I just mentioned that it didn't line up with my taste, (the library) not BH's music, and advised whoever is going to buy it, to carefully evaluate it before spending $$$ and lots of SSD space to house it.

I wish I read this post before I purchased BHCTK.


----------



## Werty

So is it fair to say that if you are interested in fast strings passages, sounding great right out of the box, without annoying freakin' reverb, miroire is the way to go, and you won't regret it?


----------



## doctoremmet

FWIW. I love BHCT. I love how it sounds. I love working with the ensemble patches (a first for me), it is almost like Spitfire’s Albion version of the Studio-line. And I love the pre-orchestrated patches that mix certain instruments, because it does sound very Hermann-y and I would have never come up with those combinations. 

I have heard quite a few excellent pieces in the compositions section of this forum that use BHCT extensively.

This is not to discount @muziksculp ’s opinion of it, yet just another example of how our appreciation of a sample library or a VI is a very subjective matter of personal taste.


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> My advice is evaluate it very carefully before you spend your money on this library.


But surely that should be for every library? The walkthrough is pretty comprehensive in how this library sounds and what's in it.


muziksculp said:


> I might add, how frequently do you come across mentions of this library being used alone, or to complement other libraries. in my experience so far super rare. Which should give you some indication as to how useful it is.


Just the other day I read on here someone calling BHCT their 'desert island' library and how they could spend ages going through all the patches.

I love BHCT - it's jam packed full of so much great stuff, it adds so much CHARACTER that so many samples libraries lack, it's pretty dry so you can mix it with other libraries easily.

I got it for $299 and it's easily one of the best purchases I've made.


----------



## doctoremmet

Futchibon said:


> I got it for $299 and it's easily one of the best purchases I've made.


Yep. Same for me.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> On the other hand, sometime you just know. Right when you hear a library for the first time. You just know.


Yes, had this experience twice recently with both Tallinn and Solstice and in these cases my intuition was spot on. But then there are libraries like Sunset Strings or LCO Strings that I love the sound of and can noodle with forever (and certainly don’t regret purchasing) but only rarely find their way into finished pieces. So I can’t say my intuition is unerring in surfacing libraries that I will use regularly.


----------



## Ben H

from_theashes said:


> Yep, it’s totally subjective. One man‘s trash is another man‘s treasure.


And sometimes one man's trash, is actually trash.


----------



## Futchibon

zedmaster said:


> No purchase regrets so far. Only reminders to myself that I should use some more often than I do. But I know they are there for me when I need them


I'm really enjoyng your videos! Are you going to do an Afflatus review?


----------



## handz

daviddln said:


> Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition. It's not that it's bad. But there are much better libraries on the market (Synchron, Spitfire, CSS, OT...).


For the price? I doubt so...


----------



## RogiervG

handz said:


> For the price? I doubt so...


price is just one factor.. sound /workflow is the other.. 
the latter is more important.


----------



## BenjaminParis

8Dio Claire.


----------



## bill5

RogiervG said:


> price is just one factor.. sound /workflow is the other..
> the latter is more important.


To you, you mean. It all varies with the person.


----------



## Ciochi

Definetely Maximo/Grosso. At first I bought Grosso as my first big library, and I said to me I was not skilled enough. then that Maximo would fit better my music.
They are good, indeed, but I simply can't find a use. As for Opus Orchestrator, or any other phrases library.


----------



## Ciochi

from_theashes said:


> Audio Imperia Areia Lite: even on intro sale it was just a waste of money. Inconsistency in volume (volume jumps) throughout the whole library And just not a great sound. Big let down for me.


Wah, where do you get incosistency? I use it as my main string lib with no issue at all. And it's the same strings in Jaeger.


----------



## RogiervG

bill5 said:


> To you, you mean. It all varies with the person.


i highly doubt that anyone will buy a library on purpose, that sounds unpleasantly to the sonic goals of the buyer. you buy for the sound. thats why i say, the latter is more important.


----------



## bill5

RogiervG said:


> i highly doubt that anyone will buy a library on purpose, that sounds unpleasantly to the sonic goals of the buyer.


? I never said they would. If cost matters more to someone, that doesn't mean they don't care about the sound. It's a mix of the two.


----------



## easyrider

jbuhler said:


> Yes, had this experience twice recently with both Tallinn and Solstice and in these cases my intuition was spot on. But then there are libraries like Sunset Strings or LCO Strings that I love the sound of and can noodle with forever (and certainly don’t regret purchasing) but only rarely find their way into finished pieces. So I can’t say my intuition is unerring in surfacing libraries that I will use regularly.


I’m still on the fence with Solstice….does your post mean you regret it?


----------



## jbuhler

easyrider said:


> I’m still on the fence with Solstice….does your post mean you regret it?


No, the opposite. I love both Tallinn and Solstice and have used them extensively from the moment I got them. I also love the sound of Sunset Strungs and LCO but I haven’t yet found a way to use them in a piece.


----------



## easyrider

jbuhler said:


> No, the opposite. I love both Tallinn and Solstice and have used them extensively from the moment I got them. I also love the sound of Sunset Strungs and LCO but I haven’t yet found a way to use them in a piece.


Cheers 👍


----------



## zedmaster

Futchibon said:


> I'm really enjoyng your videos! Are you going to do an Afflatus review?


Thanks so much! I might do a general "Sound of Strezov" video (planning something like this for a couple of sample library developers that I have many libraries from), where I'd include Afflatus as well. Not sure I'll do a separate video, as it's been out for quite a while already. Eagerly anticipating Afflatus volume 2...


----------



## Futchibon

zedmaster said:


> Thanks so much! I might do a general "Sound of Strezov" video (planning something like this for a couple of sample library developers that I have many libraries from), where I'd include Afflatus as well. Not sure I'll do a separate video, as it's been out for quite a while already. Eagerly anticipating Afflatus volume 2...


Well it's been out for a while but many of us haven't been able to afford it yet! emoji_fingers_crossed:for Black Friday) And there aren't that many Afflatus reviewsd out there. But 'Sound of Strezov' sounds great! Do you know what volume 2 is meant to be? More strings or another section?


----------



## handz

RogiervG said:


> price is just one factor.. sound /workflow is the other..
> the latter is more important.


The library sounds very good, brass and strings are still extremely usable, percussions as well. To me it is definitely the best option for one library to own now if you are on a tight budget. And even if you get anything else you will find a lot of stuff from it useful.


----------



## zedmaster

Futchibon said:


> Well it's been out for a while but many of us haven't been able to afford it yet! emoji_fingers_crossed:for Black Friday) And there aren't that many Afflatus reviewsd out there. But 'Sound of Strezov' sounds great! Do you know what volume 2 is meant to be? More strings or another section?


There's no official info afaik, but I thiiiink people were talking about a brass chapter of afflatus? Maybe I'm confabulating tho..
Definitely didn't regret getting Afflatus :D


----------



## RogiervG

bill5 said:


> ? I never said they would. If cost matters more to someone, that doesn't mean they don't care about the sound. It's a mix of the two.


Ok, i think we think kind of the same.. (mixture of two). 
What i mean is that sound/workflow is more important of the two. Not that finance isn't a factor or not important, but just a tad lesser.


----------



## RogiervG

handz said:


> The library sounds very good, brass and strings are still extremely usable, percussions as well. To me it is definitely the best option for one library to own now if you are on a tight budget. And even if you get anything else you will find a lot of stuff from it useful.


Sure, it's not a bad orchestra. (i have HOD, which is incorporated in the OPUS version)
But the same is true for BBC SO (core even), or VSL SE 1 in that regard.
It's what works for the user, which of the cheaper orchestras work out best, and which doesn't (and thus a regret in having) 

sidenote: I have HOD, BBC SO Core, VSL SE 1 (non synchron-ized) with plus addition, Chris Hein orchestra, to name a few of them.. i always change between them periodically. In my template there are others, but they remain steadily in use.


----------



## bill5

RogiervG said:


> Ok, i think we think kind of the same.. (mixture of two).
> What i mean is that sound/workflow is more important of the two. Not that finance isn't a factor or not important, but just a tad lesser.


Again it varies for everyone; for some cost is a tad greater


----------



## Bluemount Score

BenjaminParis said:


> 8Dio Claire.


I second this, sorry 8Dio


----------



## RogiervG

bill5 said:


> Again it varies for everyone; for some cost is a tad greater


haha, well...  shall i put up my earlier post about buying something unpleasant on purpose? 

I think we can conclude: we have the same outcome (mixture of both)  which is the most important part i think.


----------



## Futchibon

zedmaster said:


> There's no official info afaik, but I thiiiink people were talking about a brass chapter of afflatus? Maybe I'm confabulating tho..
> Definitely didn't regret getting Afflatus :D


Afflatus: Brass would be awesome!


----------



## halfwalk

IK MODO Drum. Was a single drummer consulted at any point in the making of this one? Total bummer. I've had 20 year-old free soundfonts that are more convincing.

I knew within the first five minutes I had gotten burnt, but still I gave it a few hours. I tried all kinds of mixing, processing, reverb, etc. But those "snares" all have this weird quality that alternates between spongy and raspy. And the cymbals... they're just floating in space somewhere in deep orbit around the drums. And the toms sound especially synthy to me (which makes sense I guess; it's a synth). It's a neat concept for sure, but has a _really _long way to go before I'd ever actually use it.

Honestly, after exploring my group buy purchases, I'm pretty disappointed with most of the IK stuff (besides Amplitube and a few T-Racks things). I might comb through the Sampletank library to see if anything's worth keeping, but Syntronik and Philharmonik CE were pretty much instant-deletes. Even the new SampleTron 2 content isn't really any better than the legacy SampleTron (just louder and with more reverb).


----------



## Alchemedia

from_theashes said:


> Audio Imperia Areia Lite: even on intro sale it was just a waste of money. Inconsistency in volume (volume jumps) throughout the whole library And just not a great sound. Big let down for me.


Corey gave this a pretty favorable review.


----------



## Alchemedia

doctoremmet said:


> FWIW. I love BHCT. I love how it sounds.








 YOU EAT LIKE A BIRD!​


----------



## jcrosby

Bluemount Score said:


> I second this, sorry 8Dio


Unfortunately 8dio's the one developer where I've found QA has been the most inconsistent (50/50 at best IME). Some things are great, no question about that; others sadly have just been a big old hot mess... Sorry? Not sorry at all...


----------



## BenjaminParis

jcrosby said:


> Unfortunately 8dio's the one developer where I've found QA has been the most inconsistent (50/50 at best IME). Some things are great, no question about that; others sadly have just been a big old hot mess... Sorry? Not sorry at all...


So true. Clair is awful, I see no point in their percussions either, the 1985 piano has a nice tone but is so heavy that it makes it difficult to use, but I find myself regularly using their Anthology Strings (although I have plenty of great (or better) strings libraries), or (a bit less regularly though) Century brass (and as for the strings I have quite a lot of good brass libraries). I think these two have something.


----------



## Futchibon

Bluemount Score said:


> I second this, sorry 8Dio


Looking at your youtube channel, you seem to have a predeliction for epic music, which the Claire series is most unsuited for. Within its limited use area they're quite beauiful, at least the 4/6 I have.


----------



## RogiervG

BenjaminParis said:


> So true. Clair is awful,


Which one in the series?


----------



## doctoremmet

RogiervG said:


> Which one in the series?


They are not awful at all. I think it IS safe to say Benjamin doesn’t like them very much  but these personal dislikes translate badly to universal objectifiable truths. Of course you need to take my first sentence with a grain of salt, since that is merely my personal opinion of course.


----------



## RogiervG

doctoremmet said:


> They are not aweful at all. I think it IS safe to say Benjamin doesn’t like them very much  but these personal dislikes translate badly to universal objectifiable truths. Of course you need to take my first sentence with a grain of salt, since that is merely my personal opinion of course.


I guess it is the case 
Listening to some walkthroughs (most of them are not recent), they sounds fine to me.
Not sure about the workflow though, maybe Benjamin refers to that?


----------



## jcrosby

Just to clarify... (Since Claire's become the focus in the past few comments...) My scrap with 8dio isn't about Claire at all. I've just found their QC to be pretty inconsistent...


----------



## doctoremmet

The Claire instruments excel in their own particular sweet spot bandwidth, which revolves around lyrical exposed lines. In the mix with a decent reverb they can sound gorgeous. Of course, when not played to their strengths they can also sound horrible. I think it is safe to say I can make the best libraries sound that way


----------



## musicmaker9000

I'm quite a noob

View attachment Fantasy Theme.mp3


Not any modulation going on, just the "natural" articulation + reverb.
I don't regret Claire Alto Flute at all.
Even more so at 35$ + the free library I got on top of it :D
Also Anthology Strings in there, that I also really enjoy.

But I don't have a lot of fancy libraries, mostly only have komplete + cheaply gotten 8dio libraries so far, so maybe my opinion is not as valid when I lack something to compare with?


----------



## Markrs

Just a reminder to everyone on this thread, that just about every library you can buy seems to be listed on here as at least one person's regret. It really depends on what your expectations are and what you plan to use it for. Something that is wrong for one person is right for another.

All sample libraries have flaws (and listened to in isolation can often be quite noticeable) due to them being stitched together samples, so there is plenty that a sample library developer can go wrong with, so there are no perfect libraries.


----------



## BenjaminParis

To be honest I was so disappointed just after having bought them I haven’t given them a try after a few attempts, it was about a year ago, I’m far from my computer these days and I can not check again what I disliked so much about these. I think I shouldn’t have gotten them in first place, it was a bit of an impulsive buying as I think there was a sale at some point, and I didn’t need them, as I already had many VSL which I really enjoyed, plus Aaron Venture which I think is great. Sorry if I sounded really not diplomatic in the way I condemned Clair. Surely it is true there is a mater of personal taste in all this.


----------



## Bluemount Score

jcrosby said:


> Unfortunately 8dio's the one developer where I've found QA has been the most inconsistent (50/50 at best IME). Some things are great, no question about that; others sadly have just been a big old hot mess... Sorry? Not sorry at all...


Yes, 8Dio is my favorite hit-and-miss developer


----------



## Bluemount Score

Futchibon said:


> Looking at your youtube channel, you seem to have a predeliction for epic music, which the Claire series is most unsuited for. Within its limited use area they're quite beauiful, at least the 4/6 I have.


I like epic, however I don't think that's why I'm not the biggest fan of the Claire series. More so the way different legato patches are handled, the tone and a feeling that the three mics don't give me the flexibility that I would like. I prefer other options for calm / classical / realistic stuff and for epic as well - whenever winds are even a case in my epic compositions 
But I see the Claire series has it's fans and that's fine of course! To each their own, good thing we all are not using the exact same libraries over and over.


----------



## musicmaker9000

Bluemount Score said:


> I like epic, however I don't think that's why I'm not the biggest fan of the Claire series. More so the way different legato patches are handled, the tone and a feeling that the three mics don't give me the flexibility that I would like. I prefer other options for calm / classical / realistic stuff and for epic as well - whenever winds are even a case in my epic compositions
> But I see the Claire series has it's fans and that's fine of course! To each their own, good thing we all are not using the exact same libraries over and over.


Every epic producer: "What's a woodwind?"


----------



## zwhita

I have the two Claire flutes and the piccolo and quite like them. Woodwinds are hard to get right in sampling and I thought these just worked. I still would very much like to get the Berlin Solo 1 from OT and maybe CSW after they fix some things, but I find Claire to have unique uses.


----------



## Rudianos

I am a woodwind player (oboe, sax, clarinet). I rank VSL as number 1 for winds now overall. The Synchron upgrades have helped the legatos... Claire is great though. A sweet musicality to them that sort of pegs them is a certain use. I need to talk to Troels about what a marcato actually is... And I dont like boxed vibrato - I like control sooo I am also like Cinesample Winds for that... If NI Symphony Winds were a purchase and not a bundle from Komplete I would have regretted that ... ick.


----------



## Bluemount Score

musicmaker9000 said:


> Every epic producer: "What's a woodwind?"


Exactly! However, I do love winds! Just not... everywhere. Simple as I don't like a 3/4 time signature everywhere. Or a choir. Or a didgeridoo. Is a didgeridoo a woodwind instrument?


----------



## musicmaker9000

Bluemount Score said:


> Exactly! However, I do love winds! Just not... everywhere. Simple as I don't like a 3/4 time signature everywhere. Or a choir. Or a didgeridoo. Is a didgeridoo a woodwind instrument?


I bet you would like this "woodwind" everywhere in your epic tracks


----------



## dzilizzi

Well, the whole point of this thread is the why you dislike things. Because everyone has different needs, and what is a bad thing for one person maybe just what another is looking for.


----------



## RogiervG

I regret not buying into the Berlin main library series 50% discount, last year..
I was this close to hit the buy button... then for some weird reason i did not.
Same for 50% discount on the VSL Cube.. also did not go through with the button pressing.
I know.. it's not fully compliant with the topic, but i do regret not buying them... (see what i did there?)


----------



## Trash Panda

dzilizzi said:


> Well, the whole point of this thread is the why you dislike things. Because everyone has different needs, and what is a bad thing for one person maybe just what another is looking for.


Seems to be half of this thread. The other half is fans of the slighted libraries coming to its defense, like these samples have feelings or something.


----------



## doctoremmet

Alchemedia said:


> ​ YOU EAT LIKE A BIRD!​


Hehe. Sometimes I just completely miss the meaning of something, not being a native speaker nor a huge specialist on memes. So: ¿que?


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Hehe. Sometimes I just completely miss the meaning of something, not being a native speaker nor a huge specialist on memes. So: ¿que?


I know nothing of memes, but I know that it is a psycho reference, which has music by Bernard Hermann. I'm sure you know all of that. Perhaps Marion says that she just likes the way birds sound? It comes up in a conversation in which Norman Bates explains his hobby of taxidermy, and his preference for stuffing birds, because he hates the way beasts look. So, at least, you aren't being called a beast!

There is a dim, outside chance that @Alchemedia is threatening to kill you, stuff you, and keep you as decoration around the house. But I wouldn't read too much into it...


----------



## doctoremmet

Ah! Time for a rewatch! I had no clue. Thx!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Sample libraries I have regretted buying? Each of them at some point. The ones I might reasonably regret are those that I never use in action; but as I can't tell the future, I can't pick any yet. So, what I would say - and I say this mostly as advice to newbies like myself - is that I regret buying so many cheaper libraries. I got caught up in the enthusiasm of discovering new sounds at first and, since I couldn't contemplate spending a large sum at that time, I spent small sums. The small sums added up into a large sum. As a result I have lots of tiny libraries that I can't fully keep track of in my head when I could have had one or two more expensive libraries with a fuller range of features that I could get to know and learn what I might want it for.

Of course, some of those smaller, cheaper libraries are actually great. And some aren't.

Slightly differently to the intent of the question, I regret buying a number of sample packs. I'm always interested in finding new sounds I can work with, but I think I went a little too crazy and bought too many sample packs before I'd worked out what I would really be most likely to use.


----------



## Casiquire

RogiervG said:


> I regret not buying into the Berlin main library series 50% discount, last year..
> I was this close to hit the buy button... then for some weird reason i did not.
> Same for 50% discount on the VSL Cube.. also did not go through with the button pressing.
> I know.. it's not fully compliant with the topic, but i do regret not buying them... (see what i did there?)


I'm hoping we get that same sale this year!


----------



## Bluemount Score

musicmaker9000 said:


> I bet you would like this "woodwind" everywhere in your epic tracks


I wonder if it makes a sound!


----------



## ansthenia

All of them


----------



## Futchibon

Markrs said:


> Just a reminder to everyone on this thread, that just about every library you can buy seems to be listed on here as at least one person's regret. It really depends on what your expectations are and what you plan to use it for. Something that is wrong for one person is right for another.





dzilizzi said:


> Well, the whole point of this thread is the why you dislike things. Because everyone has different needs, and what is a bad thing for one person maybe just what another is looking for.


I think the issue is when people come on and diss a library with 'X is crap' or the like and not give a proper explanation.



doctoremmet said:


> Sometimes I just completely miss the meaning of something, not being a native speaker


Your written command of English is better than 90% of Australians lol


----------



## Futchibon

doctoremmet said:


> Hehe. Sometimes I just completely miss the meaning of something, not being a native speaker nor a huge specialist on memes. So: ¿que?


----------



## nolotrippen




----------



## RogiervG

nolotrippen said:


>


No way? do you actually have N? *jaw drop*




I am shocked it's a regret for you... the demos i've heard are amazing.


----------



## nolotrippen

RogiervG said:


> No way? do you actually have N? *jaw drop*
> I am shocked it's a regret for you... the demos i've heard are amazing.


I can't comment as I'm a beta tester on it


----------



## Casiquire

doctoremmet said:


> Hehe. Sometimes I just completely miss the meaning of something, not being a native speaker nor a huge specialist on memes. So: ¿que?


Agreed with the others, your English is great and i didn't understand that either!


----------



## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> The Claire instruments excel in their own particular sweet spot bandwidth, which revolves around lyrical exposed lines. In the mix with a decent reverb they can sound gorgeous. Of course, when not played to their strengths they can also sound horrible. I think it is safe to say I can make the best libraries sound that way


I guess we might be related after all! 😜


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> I know nothing of memes, but I know that it is a psycho reference, which has music by Bernard Hermann. I'm sure you know all of that. Perhaps Marion says that she just likes the way birds sound? It comes up in a conversation in which Norman Bates explains his hobby of taxidermy, and his preference for stuffing birds, because he hates the way beasts look. So, at least, you aren't being called a beast!
> 
> There is a dim, outside chance that @Alchemedia is threatening to kill you, stuff you, and keep you as decoration around the house. But I wouldn't read too much into it...


I’m trying to resist saying: I like the way you think! 😱


----------



## Alchemedia

kgdrum said:


> I’m trying to resist saying: I like the way you think! 😱


Why do I suddenly feel like the straight man in this vaudeville act?


----------



## kgdrum

@Alchemedia 
I’m not sure if that’s a compliment or if you’re questioning my…………..

*uncharacteristically tastefully edited for the pc crowd*


----------



## Alchemedia

You, know, like Dean & Jerry, Laurel & Hardy, Abbott & Costello, etc.


----------



## alcorey

Alchemedia said:


> Why do I suddenly feel like the straight man in this vaudeville act?


The other one's already bent


----------



## Jdiggity1

Futchibon said:


> Your written command of English is better than 90% of Australians lol


yeah nah, yeah


----------



## kgdrum

Alchemedia said:


> You, know, like Dean & Jerry, Laurel & Hardy, Abbott & Costello, etc.


I know exactly what you mean. I already know I’m a sick demented twisted bastard! (the formula for most good comics)It’s actually been suggested to me a few times by well known established comics that I give standup a try. Unfortunately I’m an improviser I dont think I could actually “prepare “ a worked out backup routine successfully. Which is necessary if a change of course during a routine is required with the audience‘s reaction or non-reaction. Although I’ve known for years I’m a 🤡


----------



## kgdrum

Uncharacteristicly getting back to the premise of the thread my biggest regrets with sample library purchases has to be the majority of the Kontakt based sampled “synth” bargains that will never get used after diving head 1st into synths from developers like U-he,Synapse,Spectrasonics,New Fangled, Xils etc……..


----------



## Alchemedia

I can relate. Being a cheeky Surrealist, I apparently managed to derail this thread via an oblique Hitchcock reference and now both Bee & Doctor T probably think I'm crackers!


----------



## kgdrum

Alchemedia said:


> I can relate. Being a cheeky Surrealist, I apparently managed to derail this thread via an oblique Hitchcock reference and now both Bee & Doctor T probably think I'm crackers!


Crackers? I think most of us understand we are all pretty far gone………..
Believe it or not my father was a shrink, in retrospect I think he was crazier than most of his patients 🤪 and except for serious clinically diagnosed psychological disorders I think sanity is vastly overrated.


----------



## dzilizzi

kgdrum said:


> I think most of us understand we are all pretty far gone………..
> Believe it or not my father was a shrink, in retrospect I think he was crazier than most of his patients 🤪 and except for serious clinically diagnosed psychological disorders I think sanity is vastly overrated.


I've always thought psychologists and psychiatrists get into the business because they are slightly crazy themselves and want to prove to themselves they aren't so bad.


----------



## kgdrum

dzilizzi said:


> I've always thought psychologists and psychiatrists get into the business because they are slightly crazy themselves and want to prove to themselves they aren't so bad.


Absolutely and quite a few have a “GOD” complex and like having the power to control………….As a kid growing up there was only one Psychologist friend of my dad‘s that I really liked & felt comfortable with,he was extremely cool.
He told me stories of going to nightclubs and seeing Billy Holiday and great jazz stars of his day and he’d actually sit down and listen to Jimi Hendrix records with me and enjoy it.
My father thought he was totally incompetent! lol
My dad was actually a well known shrink that was also a teaching professor at a well known medical school. My sister and I were discussing a few days ago if he was practicing today and doing some of the stuff that he did routinely & was considered acceptable back in the day now , he’d probably be disbarred and locked up!
There’s a very dark hilarious mostly forgotten indie film from the early 60’s starring Sean Connery around the time of 007 where he plays a “crazy” eccentric poet with some abusive tendencies and his wife played by Joanne Woodward gets him committed & put in a mental hospital and the lead shrink wants to give him a lobotomy. It’s as hilarious as it’s strange,dark and twisted. It’s extremely dated but a brutal take on the accepted Psych practices of the time.
The film is titled : A Fine Madness









A Fine Madness - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## alcorey

dzilizzi said:


> I've always thought psychologists and psychiatrists get into the business because they are slightly crazy themselves and want to prove to themselves they aren't so bad.


Exactly, and not 1 of them yet has actually come to that conclusion ........................

but there's hope for me


----------



## ag75

halfwalk said:


> IK MODO Drum. Was a single drummer consulted at any point in the making of this one? Total bummer. I've had 20 year-old free soundfonts that are more convincing.
> 
> I knew within the first five minutes I had gotten burnt, but still I gave it a few hours. I tried all kinds of mixing, processing, reverb, etc. But those "snares" all have this weird quality that alternates between spongy and raspy. And the cymbals... they're just floating in space somewhere in deep orbit around the drums. And the toms sound especially synthy to me (which makes sense I guess; it's a synth). It's a neat concept for sure, but has a _really _long way to go before I'd ever actually use it.
> 
> Honestly, after exploring my group buy purchases, I'm pretty disappointed with most of the IK stuff (besides Amplitube and a few T-Racks things). I might comb through the Sampletank library to see if anything's worth keeping, but Syntronik and Philharmonik CE were pretty much instant-deletes. Even the new SampleTron 2 content isn't really any better than the legacy SampleTron (just louder and with more reverb).


I had the same issue with modo bass. I thought I loved it until I put it up against other VI basses and I almost always ended reaching for those and ditching modo bass. It’s fun to play but is cold and sterile and when it comes to realism it falls short. No character at all.


----------



## kgdrum

ag75 said:


> I had the same issue with modo bass. I thought I loved it until I put it up against other VI basses and I almost always ended reaching for those and ditching modo bass. It’s fun to play but is cold and sterile and when it comes to realism it falls short. No character at all.


Did you ever try adding a small pinch of saturation? Like True Iron,Big Al etc……..I find using these types of plugs very carefully can transfrom a sterile synth or VI substantially and create sounds that feel vibrant,alive and anything but sterile.For me the key is doing just enough to do the job but not enough to sound obvious.


----------



## Geoff Grace

kgdrum said:


> Did you ever try adding a small pinch of saturation? Like True Iron,Big Al etc……..I find using these types of plugs very carefully can transfrom a sterile synth or VI substantially and create sounds that feel vibrant,alive and anything but sterile.For me the key is doing just enough to do the job but not enough to sound obvious.


You beat me to the punch, *kgdrum*. I agree.

If you want a bass VI that's ready to go with a particular sound, one that you can simply instantiate and play, then Modo Bass may not be the best tool for the job.

On the other hand, if you want a bass that you can sculpt to the nth degree, that gives you nuanced control, then I find that Modo Bass is as good as a VI gets. As *kgdrum* alluded to above, you'll get the best results by going a step further and creating a signal path that works for your tone, just as any (electric) bass player would.

After all, how often do bass players record direct to DAW and then mix the track "as is" without any type of processing?

In addition to something like True Iron, you could also try bass amp and cabinet plugins. You could even try emulations of some of the effects pedals that bass players might use.

However, if you don't want to fool with that, then I can see why Modo Bass might be unsatisfying. Not everyone likes sound design, and many who have demanding deadlines don't have time for it.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## walkaschaos

Sample Logic Arpology. Just find most of the samples and patches pretty boring and weird to fit into the mix, and listening to clips from their other stuff it all sounds pretty recycled and same-y.


----------



## Alchemedia

Casiquire said:


> Agreed with the others, your English is great and i didn't understand that either!


It seemed appropo at the time however in retrospect, I'm not sure I did either.


----------



## ag75

kgdrum said:


> Did you ever try adding a small pinch of saturation? Like True Iron,Big Al etc……..I find using these types of plugs very carefully can transfrom a sterile synth or VI substantially and create sounds that feel vibrant,alive and anything but sterile.For me the key is doing just enough to do the job but not enough to sound obvious.


I will try this. Most of the stuff I’ve been producing lately has been funk, disco vibes. Ever since I found out Ian Kirkpatrick produced the Dua Lipa don’t start now bass line with the Scarbee MM-Bass I’ve been obsessed with that bass sound. It’s nails that style.

From wiki:

“Kirkpatrick used a Scarbee MM-Bass plug-in for the leading bass sound and played it on a keyboard before modifying it. He wanted to abstain from disco for a more 1990s sound in the bridge by adding sub-bass combined with thumb bass guitar and slaps in the drop from Trilian.”

But I’m excited to try your tips for modo. It is a great bass and much more versatile. I’ve barely scratched the surface.


----------



## axb312

Loerpert said:


> Out of all those that I have, Spitfire Symphonic Motions is the only one I really regret buying.


Why?


----------



## Loerpert

axb312 said:


> Why?



Price too high. Not too versatile. Quite resource intensive. I think you're far better off with something like PS Fluid Shorts or 8Dio Ostinato strings.


----------



## timbit2006

It's not necessarily regret because the samples are fine but Angel Strings by Auddict has the mic position outputs broken so it's almost unusable for me as a layer to other stuff like I had hoped.


----------



## Futchibon

timbit2006 said:


> It's not necessarily regret because the samples are fine but Angel Strings by Auddict has the mic position outputs broken so it's almost unusable for me as a layer to other stuff like I had hoped.


Thanks for the feedback; I'd been interested in AS for a while but had heard bad things about Auddict's cusomer service. Dissapointing to hear this as the walkthru sounds really good


----------



## LatinXCombo

So far, every thing I buy thinking, "Yes, this will be the trumpet solution I was looking for," has fallen into this category.


----------



## timbit2006

Futchibon said:


> Thanks for the feedback; I'd been interested in AS for a while but had heard bad things about Auddict's cusomer service. Dissapointing to hear this as the walkthru sounds really good


Yeah actually I have some personal grief with their support too on top of the broken output routing. I don't know if I want to go into details haha. It really is disappointing because the sounds in the library are really good


----------



## Markrs

I was going to post this in the thread about falling for marketing, but it seems more appropriate here (even though given the company involved, marketing played a role in my purchases)

Truthfully, the sample libraries I am starting to regret the most are Spitfire Audio, arguably the worst culprits or geniuses (depending on your view point) regarding marketing practices.

I just really don't like their sample player. 

I hate the lack of purge so everything loads 
I hate that I have 10+ mic options, which inflates the size, but they make it hard for you to remove mics or add them back in. 
I hate the interface and the hidden elements, 
I hate that it doesn't have multi-timbral support, 
I hate that you can't set a different set of mic options as default, 
I hate that to reduce the number of articulations in a patch you have to save it as a user preset rather than over-writing their patches. 
I hate all the issue you have at times when you move the content of a sample library and that you only get a set number of resets and have to contact them for more. 

Even for the Kontakt instruments, I hate how small the interface is.

I have got to the point that there is nothing I like about how they do things.

On the positive side, I think some of the Originals are pretty cool and the above issues are less of a problem with those. But even then they feel more like entertainment than useful.

.... wow clearly I needed to get that off my chest after recently working with BBC SO and some of their other libraries.


----------



## emilio_n

Markrs said:


> I was going to post this in the thread about falling for marketing, but it seems more appropriate here (even though given the company involved, marketing played a role in my purchases)
> 
> Truthfully, the sample libraries I am starting to regret the most are Spitfire Audio, arguably the worst culprits or geniuses (depending on your view point) regarding marketing practices.
> 
> I just really don't like their sample player.
> 
> I hate the lack of purge so everything loads
> I hate that I have 10+ mic options, which inflates the size, but they make it hard for you to remove mics or add them back in.
> I hate the interface and the hidden elements,
> I hate that it doesn't have multi-timbral support,
> I hate that you can't set a different set of mic options as default,
> I hate that to reduce the number of articulations in a patch you have to save it as a user preset rather than over-writing their patches.
> I hate all the issue you have at times when you move the content of a sample library and that you only get a set number of resets and have to contact them for more.
> 
> Even for the Kontakt instruments, I hate how small the interface is.
> 
> I have got to the point that there is nothing I like about how they do things.
> 
> On the positive side, I think some of the Originals are pretty cool and the above issues are less of a problem with those. But even then they feel more like entertainment than useful.
> 
> .... wow clearly I needed to get that off my chest after recently working with BBC SO and some of their other libraries.


Amen.
Maybe they should spend part of the budget to make a new player and migrate all the libraries instead of marketing.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Markrs said:


> I was going to post this in the thread about falling for marketing, but it seems more appropriate here (even though given the company involved, marketing played a role in my purchases)
> 
> Truthfully, the sample libraries I am starting to regret the most are Spitfire Audio, arguably the worst culprits or geniuses (depending on your view point) regarding marketing practices.
> 
> I just really don't like their sample player.
> 
> I hate the lack of purge so everything loads
> I hate that I have 10+ mic options, which inflates the size, but they make it hard for you to remove mics or add them back in.
> I hate the interface and the hidden elements,
> I hate that it doesn't have multi-timbral support,
> I hate that you can't set a different set of mic options as default,
> I hate that to reduce the number of articulations in a patch you have to save it as a user preset rather than over-writing their patches.
> I hate all the issue you have at times when you move the content of a sample library and that you only get a set number of resets and have to contact them for more.
> 
> Even for the Kontakt instruments, I hate how small the interface is.
> 
> I have got to the point that there is nothing I like about how they do things.
> 
> On the positive side, I think some of the Originals are pretty cool and the above issues are less of a problem with those. But even then they feel more like entertainment than useful.
> 
> .... wow clearly I needed to get that off my chest after recently working with BBC SO and some of their other libraries.


As this was a straightforward vent, I think the only proper response is to say 'Oh, I know. Awful. Oh, I know' whilst we read the weather on our phones.

But, Oh, I know. It is awful.

Mmmm.... minus one tonight...


----------



## Hadrondrift

Markrs said:


> there is nothing I like about how they do things.


What really annoys me personally and keeps me from continuing to buy their libraries without thorough thought is that there seems to be little to no development work put into their failed (ymmv) player. For instance: Number of updates of BBCSO-Player: 11 in 2020, 3 in 2021, none in 2022

Also, that each new product comes with its own player is extremely annoying.

Otherwise, I still consider Bernhard Herrmann Composer Toolkit and Chamber/Solo Strings to be among the best of my libraries. KONTAKT for the win... well, oh, but not Kontakt 7, still awful, not?


----------



## Michel Simons

Michael Antrum said:


> - Their download manager doesn't keep track of what you have installed and what version. If you have a copy of a library and another on a desktop it's so flipping confusing as to which version you have installed. I mean, how difficult is it to have a file in the library which clearly shows what version it is ?


I totally agree. I have a similar experience after reinstalling some of their libraries on my new machine last year, but not all of them. Now it shows some of those that I didn't install as ones that need to be updated.


----------



## emilio_n

Michael Antrum said:


> In the meantime, the Synchron Payer is fabulous.....


Not until it is 100% compatible with Apple Silicon. Running Rosseta on my Mac just because of them.


----------



## aamatniekss

For me it's bbcso core, i bought it due to many recommendations as one of the best starter libraries, but the sound is just not what I wanted. Plus its quite slow to me. It truly sucks when you have to spend 300bucks and not even be sure what you're buying, due to not being able to try it out, and in the end dont have the option to refund it either.


----------



## ism

Markrs said:


> I was going to post this in the thread about falling for marketing, but it seems more appropriate here (even though given the company involved, marketing played a role in my purchases)
> 
> Truthfully, the sample libraries I am starting to regret the most are Spitfire Audio, arguably the worst culprits or geniuses (depending on your view point) regarding marketing practices.
> 
> I just really don't like their sample player.
> 
> I hate the lack of purge so everything loads
> I hate that I have 10+ mic options, which inflates the size, but they make it hard for you to remove mics or add them back in.
> I hate the interface and the hidden elements,
> I hate that it doesn't have multi-timbral support,
> I hate that you can't set a different set of mic options as default,
> I hate that to reduce the number of articulations in a patch you have to save it as a user preset rather than over-writing their patches.
> I hate all the issue you have at times when you move the content of a sample library and that you only get a set number of resets and have to contact them for more.
> 
> Even for the Kontakt instruments, I hate how small the interface is.
> 
> I have got to the point that there is nothing I like about how they do things.
> 
> On the positive side, I think some of the Originals are pretty cool and the above issues are less of a problem with those. But even then they feel more like entertainment than useful.
> 
> .... wow clearly I needed to get that off my chest after recently working with BBC SO and some of their other libraries.


Does this mean you hate the actual instrument though?

Because I can agree that these are all legitimate issues, and certainly, they can be sometimes kind of annoying UX issues.

But I also feel that 99.9% of the experience of playing these instruments happens between my fingers and the keyboard.

So even that gui level of user experience was 100x worse than it is, I can't imagine it having all that much impact on the experience of the instruments.

But while again, it's perfectly reasonable to complain about this things, I guess I'm wondering if the player gui issues really bug people that much to lead to actually regretting buying the library as a whole?

Or - is this just an expression of just not actually liking the libraries themselves? Whether or the sound or the expressive dimensions of the design or just the general spitfire aesthetic very much.

And just hating the libraries is also, of course, a perfectly valid aesthetic position to take. But if you hate the libraries themselves (and clearly a lot of people just hate SF libraries, and should really stop buying them), then surely they deserve to be slagged off in their own right rather than projecting onto the gui?

Or maybe I'm wrong. Just a thought.


----------



## ZeroZero

8 dio sold me a solo tenor saxophone with two notes missing from its bottom register. It was obviously hacked out of a package.


----------



## Michael Antrum

ism said:


> Does this mean you hate the actual instrument though?
> 
> Because I can agree that these are all legitimate issues, and certainly, they can be sometimes kind of annoying UX issues.
> 
> But I also feel that 99.9% of the experience of playing these instruments happens between my fingers and the keyboard.
> 
> So even that gui level of user experience was 100x worse than it is, I can't imagine it having all that much impact on the experience of the instruments.
> 
> But while again, it's perfectly reasonable to complain about this things, I guess I'm wondering if the player gui issues really bug people that much to lead to actually regretting buying the library as a whole?
> 
> Or - is this just an expression of just not actually liking the libraries themselves? Whether or the sound or the expressive dimensions of the design or just the general spitfire aesthetic very much.
> 
> And just hating the libraries is also, of course, a perfectly valid aesthetic position to take. But if you hate the libraries themselves (and clearly a lot of people just hate SF libraries, and should really stop buying them), then surely they deserve to be slagged off in their own right rather than projecting onto the gui?
> 
> Or maybe I'm wrong. Just a thought.


I really like the Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra. Chamber Strings is a delight. 

I'm sure that if BBCSO were in Kontakt I would use it a whole lot more. Spitfire seems to have lost its way since the new player came out, but there are the odd gems that shine through like Appassionata Strings.


----------



## Markrs

ism said:


> Does this mean you hate the actual instrument though?
> 
> Because I can agree that these are all legitimate issues, and certainly, they can be sometimes kind of annoying UX issues.
> 
> But I also feel that 99.9% of the experience of playing these instruments happens between my fingers and the keyboard.
> 
> So even that gui level of user experience was 100x worse than it is, I can't imagine it having all that much impact on the experience of the instruments.
> 
> But while again, it's perfectly reasonable to complain about this things, I guess I'm wondering if the player gui issues really bug people that much to lead to actually regretting buying the library as a whole?
> 
> Or - is this just an expression of just not actually liking the libraries themselves? Whether or the sound or the expressive dimensions of the design or just the general spitfire aesthetic very much.
> 
> And just hating the libraries is also, of course, a perfectly valid aesthetic position to take. But if you hate the libraries themselves (and clearly a lot of people just hate SF libraries, and should really stop buying them), then surely they deserve to be slagged off in their own right rather than projecting onto the gui?
> 
> Or maybe I'm wrong. Just a thought.


The user experience definitely can influence how much you enjoy a product (I am 20 years a UX Designer and this is consistent for most people, UX is a real driver of how much someone likes a product). 

All the points I mentioned have soured my experience when I use BBC SO Pro. The sound of BBC SO is good, though not the Mix 1. I prefer to mix the mics but I have to do this on every patch I load, rather than changing the default (you can save a mic preset but you have to load it each time with a new track).


----------



## ism

Markrs said:


> The user experience definitely can influence how much you enjoy a product (I am 20 years a UX Designer and this is consistent for most people, UX is a real driver of how much someone likes a product).
> 
> All the points I mentioned have soured my experience when I use BBC SO Pro. The sound of BBC SO is good, though not the Mix 1. I prefer to mix the mics but I have to do this on every patch I load, rather than changing the default (you can save a mic preset but you have to load it each time with a new track).


Yes, I absolutely experience the same frustration I finding a mix with EWC. The UX of paginated mic lists is atrocious. And it probably took me 30% longer to arrive at a template with a mix that I like that it would have.

So it's worth complaining about. Perhaps even bitterly. But in truth the UX could be *way* worse before it would have an appreciably impact on my love for the library itself. 


But fair enough. I have a friend who's a graphic designer who, it sometimes seems, can't walk down the street without being incensed at the travesties of typography she sees. Which is cool, I get that. And it's not that I would ever defend comic sans as anything other that a travesty against typography and good taste, just that so long as the beer is ok, I can forgive any sins of typography the bar's logo might have committed


----------



## jbuhler

The SF player didn't bug me that much when it was introduced, because I had the thought that they would evolve it and address its inadequacies over time. It's been around long enough now, and there have been so few changes, that it seems clear this is more or less what it's going to be. And I'm as fearful now of Abbey Road Modular being hung on the SF Player in its current form, which will at best make the new library less than fun to work with. I do generally like the SF downloader though.

Something similar should probably be said about Sine, though I find Sine generally less aggravating even if it also has a lot of really poor implementation right now. The downloader is not my favorite, and the library tab is a hot mess. 

But then too I can complain about Kontakt 7, which I've only started playing around with the Player, and can't say I love. Then there is Native Access, each iteration of which is worse than the previous one. I’ve had to rebuild every one of the last six libraries I’ve downloaded through Native Access because something broke along the way.


----------



## Jrides

ism said:


> Yes, I absolutely experience the same frustration I finding a mix with EWC. The UX of paginated mic lists is atrocious. And it probably took me 30% longer to arrive at a template with a mix that I like that it would have.
> 
> So it's worth complaining about. Perhaps even bitterly. But in truth the UX could be *way* worse before it would have an appreciably impact on my love for the library itself.
> 
> 
> But fair enough. I have a friend who's a graphic designer who, it sometimes seems, can't walk down the street without being incensed at the travesties of typography she sees. Which is cool, I get that. And it's not that I would ever defend comic sans as anything other that a travesty against typography and good taste, just that so long as the beer is ok, I can forgive any sins of typography the bar's logo might have committed


UX design is much different from typography. Not an apples to apples comparison.


Imagine if the same beer was served to you in a small metal box which was almost unbearably cold to the touch because it had been left in the freezer. This box has several small holes which aren’t big enough for a straw. There are several buttons located around the box which opens the hole, and gives you access to the contents of the box. Seemingly, the button or combination of buttons is different every time. Also, the whole from which to drink the contents seems to change as well without any pattern. At most you can get the equivalent of a teaspoon of beer out of the box before the hole seals itself again and you have to find the right combination. Ultimately it takes most people around 5 hours to empty the contents of the box. The box holds the equivalent of half a pint of beer. however, the beer tastes really good.

BTW, there is no refund on the beer. Tthe beer also cost at least double the price of mini comparable beers when not on sale.


I mean… It’s true you don’t hate the beer. However, it’s not ridiculous to think that most people will not delineate between the beer itself and the experience trying to drink the beer.


----------



## hlecedre

Spitfire Audio is my big regret. In fact, I have a new rule when shopping for samples or plugins: unless I can demo it, resell it, or very least hear the audio demos naked, I will not buy. I haven't bought from SF since 2017.


----------



## ism

Jrides said:


> UX design is much different from typography. Not an apples to apples comparison.


I know. I was being a bit tongue in cheek. The real point was about how people experience different parts of the overall experience differently.



Jrides said:


> Imagine if the same beer was served to you in a small metal box which was almost unbearably cold to the touch because it had been left in the freezer.


And this analogy is just as not apples to apples, in that - in ay experience - the cup holding the beer is UX experience of fingers on the keyboard. Which is great. And the beer (in this analogy, assuming that we're talking about EWC or a library that I actually like) is especially great. It's the typography on the menu that helps you get the right size of cup that's a bit off.

Anyway, this is a regrets thread and we don't need to debate UX itself. I don't mean to challenge anyone's experience, I was just curious as to why this part of the experience is, to some people, so dominant as to be a deal breaker.


----------



## MadLad

BBCSO Core. It has too few dynamic layers and the brass is useless for more aggressive stuff.

It's probably enough for trailer music or soundtracks that don't use much dynamics but I also write more sophisticated stuff that just needs more dynamic layers, so I'm glad I also bought CSS and CSW. Although those could also need a few more. 

One of my favorite recent purchases was the Sonuscore Chroma Grand Piano and it has 23 dynamic layers. I love it soooo much.


----------



## tack

The thing that gets me going about the SF player isn't that it's objectively terrible on so many different levels, but it's the fact that it was introduced as a breakthrough innovation in virtual instrument aesthetic design and UX that we should all stand in awe of.


----------



## Jackal_King

I may be on the other side of the spectrum but I don't have any main gripes with the SF player. To me, it's easier to use and see what I'm doing than Kontakt for the most part. My only concerns with it is the lack of a purge option and too many mics (but I can also understand their approach for it). I've been trying my best not to have any regrets with getting Abbey Road One but I also try to remind myself that with these sample libraries comes trials and errors. So I keep that library reserved for mockups and Christmas music.


----------



## RogiervG

hlecedre said:


> Spitfire Audio is my big regret. In fact, I have a new rule when shopping for samples or plugins: unless I can demo it, resell it, or very least hear the audio demos naked, I will not buy. I haven't bought from SF since 2017.


well, as far as demos go, there are quite a few naked ones scattered throughout the libraries.
(with the new website, i discovered that with many demos there is a listing of additional libs used, if not a naked demos)
and there are walkthrough videos to check out, where you hear many of the library patches isolated, naked.

But i agree on the resell part. (i am too a bit reluctant towards high investments, when you cannot resell if you wanted to)


----------



## SupremeFist

tack said:


> The thing that gets me going about the SF player isn't that it's objectively terrible on so many different levels, but it's the fact that it was introduced as a breakthrough innovation in virtual instrument aesthetic design and UX that we should all stand in awe of.


Didn't you hear it is "award-winning"?


----------



## Alchemedia

SupremeFist said:


> Didn't you hear it is "award-winning"?


Thus Bespoke Henson.


----------



## tack

SupremeFist said:


> Didn't you hear it is "award-winning"?


Didn't it win a Dundie?


----------



## AndyP

SupremeFist said:


> Didn't you hear it is "award-winning"?


More like a black hole.

Spitfire is also my UI nightmare.

If I have more than 3 BBCSO instruments open I can't tell which one I have access to. It's all one big black mass with tiny white text that keeps making me make changes in the wrong window. Or I want to load an instrument in a new instance and get the wrong window.

In general, I have to click way too much. 20 mics spread over 3 windows are even more annoying.

Spitfire Studio Strings Pro is just as awful. Articulations spread over several patches, not consistently distributed. In principle, I like them, but the overview and the operation cost too much time.


----------



## dentpuzz

Bollen said:


> Anything by 8dio...


I bought century Brass and got Anthology Strings for free. The only issues I have is the articulations are inconsistent from patch to patch, despite having the same name. Not a huge problem though.


----------



## dentpuzz

AEF said:


> Speaking of BBCSO: i regret buying it. if it were a kontakt library i might be more accepting of its many shortcomings, but the player just kills it for me in the end.
> 
> SCS. It is on one hand a brilliant library. On the other, I dont find a home for it. Chamber music is named such bc it was for small ensembles in small rooms. Recording it how they did in AIR makes it sound like quarter sections of a symphonic section.
> 
> The Berlin Inspires are really just sketching libraries on the go. “Save now, spend double later”.


I bought BBCSO Pro. I don't regret buying it as such, but I regret the fact that I had to go buy additional brass libraries as Spitfire just can't seem to get brass right!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Nothing wrong with the functionally of the SF player, IMO. Granted, the text size and contrast could be increased. Less clicks are always better too.

But it spits out audio to the DAW and stays out of the way. That’s all I ask. 

Underrated: The ability to hop between SF libraries and instantly know what’s going on without having to relearn where to click

Each to their own etc.


----------



## Pop Corn

Markrs said:


> I was going to post this in the thread about falling for marketing, but it seems more appropriate here (even though given the company involved, marketing played a role in my purchases)
> 
> Truthfully, the sample libraries I am starting to regret the most are Spitfire Audio, arguably the worst culprits or geniuses (depending on your view point) regarding marketing practices.
> 
> I just really don't like their sample player.
> 
> I hate the lack of purge so everything loads
> I hate that I have 10+ mic options, which inflates the size, but they make it hard for you to remove mics or add them back in.
> I hate the interface and the hidden elements,
> I hate that it doesn't have multi-timbral support,
> I hate that you can't set a different set of mic options as default,
> I hate that to reduce the number of articulations in a patch you have to save it as a user preset rather than over-writing their patches.
> I hate all the issue you have at times when you move the content of a sample library and that you only get a set number of resets and have to contact them for more.
> 
> Even for the Kontakt instruments, I hate how small the interface is.
> 
> I have got to the point that there is nothing I like about how they do things.
> 
> On the positive side, I think some of the Originals are pretty cool and the above issues are less of a problem with those. But even then they feel more like entertainment than useful.
> 
> .... wow clearly I needed to get that off my chest after recently working with BBC SO and some of their other libraries.


This is the first time I've seen you say anything particularly negative about anything. I'm proud.

One of us! One of us!

Seriously though, I was a big fan of Spitfire but my interest started dwindling after a while. Around the release of BBCSO, I didn't understand the hype this time, but the marketing campaign was massive. It was everywhere at that time. Then the whole scoring competition extravaganza (excellent visibility for Spitfire, but perhaps the wrong kind of visibility.. ). After all that I lost all interest and any new product is just adding to the growing, seemingly abandonware-like content on their site. I'd much, much rather they quit the aggressive marketing, went back, made their core libraries as perfect as they can be, and invest in their player. 

As you know, I was on the hunt for strings and brass libraries this BF. I considered Spitfire for all of 10 minutes. I went on their site, clicked "Strings", and there was 69 different options. Only strings. There's 200 libraries I can see on their site right now. Some tiny, some expansions, some really excellent creative stuff, but 200 libraries is crazy to me. I just see the vast majority of it as abandonware. 

I look at the likes of Alex Wallbank (Cinematic Series) and the crazy stuff he could do with access to the rooms, gear, staff and clientele that Spitfire leverage. Maybe I'm wrong. But imagine having Alex Wallbank collaborating with Hans Zimmer, Abbey Road, AIR, BBC, etc etc.

All I know is that these company's marketing campaigns have become thinly veiled to me these days, and once you become even a little bit savvy to it, it's easy to see through the sophisticated branding, artsy trailers and minimalist aesthetic of their player. It all looks great, but there's a whole list of issues that go along with each library when you actually start using them.

There'll be nobody more happy than me if they release a genuinely game changing, new era of strings and sampling. SSS tone really is lovely, but that's no good if you're battling with it the whole time. 

Thanks for sharing your experience Mark. It seems many people agree with you too.


----------



## Markrs

Pop Corn said:


> This is the first time I've seen you say anything particularly negative about anything. I'm proud.


As a rule I am genuinely a positive person and natural curious about things, and an pretty chilled when things are less than perfect.

I just decided no no longer liked Spitfire libraries mainly due to the new plugin, but also the marketing, sales, over promises, little updates or improvements. Just lots of small things.

In the end of course it isn't important, so I don't regret buying them. I'm sure I will get use from them it is all just part of that journey we go on. We have to travel some distance along the path, making mistakes, to learn. Nothing worth doing in life is cost free.


----------



## Pop Corn

Markrs said:


> As a rule I am genuinely a positive person and natural curious about things, and an pretty chilled when things are less than perfect.
> 
> I just decided no no longer liked Spitfire libraries mainly due to the new plugin, but also the marketing, sales, over promises, little updates or improvements. Just lots of small things.
> 
> In the end of course it isn't important, not so I don't regret buying them. I'm sure I will get use from them it is all just part of that journey we go on. We have to travel some distance along the path, making mistakes, to learn. Nothing worth doing in life is cost free.


We could all take a leaf out of your book


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## mussnig

One of the reasons I haven't succumbed to AROOF and it's extensions yet is the player. I do have enough RAM (I guess) and I like the sound a lot. But the loading times are already a buzz killer to me. I have BBCSO Pro and I am pretty sure I would use it more if the player was performing better.

I still bought stuff like Fractured Strings. But there I don't mind the player so much because I most likely use at most a handful of instances.


----------



## Futchibon

I didn’t like the Spitfire player to start with but have gradually come around.

Does that make me a born again Christian?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Futchibon said:


> I didn’t like the Spitfire player to start with but have gradually come around.
> 
> Does that make me a born again Christian?


No, I think you just have catholic tastes.


----------



## Yogevs

Aria Sounds Catalyst Cinematic Percussion - bought for really cheap but still regretting it


----------



## timbit2006

Any choir library that doesn't have the basic phonetics I have a bit of disdain for buying. I think there should be an international law that all choir libraries have to make Ah Eh Eeh Oh and Ooh sounds before they can record anything else.


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## SupremeFist

mussnig said:


> But the loading times are already a buzz killer to me. I have BBCSO Pro and I am pretty sure I would use it more if the player was performing better.


Is this a known thing btw? I loaded a project the other day that was just using BBCSO strings along with other stuff and it took like three minutes before the basses started sounding. Thought maybe there was something wrong with my setup, but are the load times (from T5 SSD in my case) generally acknowledged to be this bad?


----------



## mussnig

SupremeFist said:


> Is this a known thing btw? I loaded a project the other day that was just using BBCSO strings along with other stuff and it took like three minutes before the basses started sounding. Thought maybe there was something wrong with my setup, but are the load times (from T5 SSD in my case) generally acknowledged to be this bad?


I think it varies and there are some improvements that can be made by tempering with the settings for pre-load buffers etc. Also, it seems that it runs better on MAC than on PC.

But in general, yes. Load times are sometimes painfully slow. Kontakt stuff runs much smoother and quicker on my system. I think it's actually not really loading slower than Kontakt but it won't play a sound until the corresponding part is fully loaded - the Spitfire player really seems to need the pre-load buffers.

One advantage though is the fact that project file sizes remain much smaller with the Spitfire player since no complete Kontakt patches need to be saved with the project.


----------



## liquidlino

Pop Corn said:


> This is the first time I've seen you say anything particularly negative about anything. I'm proud.
> 
> One of us! One of us!
> 
> Seriously though, I was a big fan of Spitfire but my interest started dwindling after a while. Around the release of BBCSO, I didn't understand the hype this time, but the marketing campaign was massive. It was everywhere at that time. Then the whole scoring competition extravaganza (excellent visibility for Spitfire, but perhaps the wrong kind of visibility.. ). After all that I lost all interest and any new product is just adding to the growing, seemingly abandonware-like content on their site. I'd much, much rather they quit the aggressive marketing, went back, made their core libraries as perfect as they can be, and invest in their player.
> 
> As you know, I was on the hunt for strings and brass libraries this BF. I considered Spitfire for all of 10 minutes. I went on their site, clicked "Strings", and there was 69 different options. Only strings. There's 200 libraries I can see on their site right now. Some tiny, some expansions, some really excellent creative stuff, but 200 libraries is crazy to me. I just see the vast majority of it as abandonware.
> 
> I look at the likes of Alex Wallbank (Cinematic Series) and the crazy stuff he could do with access to the rooms, gear, staff and clientele that Spitfire leverage. Maybe I'm wrong. But imagine having Alex Wallbank collaborating with Hans Zimmer, Abbey Road, AIR, BBC, etc etc.
> 
> All I know is that these company's marketing campaigns have become thinly veiled to me these days, and once you become even a little bit savvy to it, it's easy to see through the sophisticated branding, artsy trailers and minimalist aesthetic of their player. It all looks great, but there's a whole list of issues that go along with each library when you actually start using them.
> 
> There'll be nobody more happy than me if they release a genuinely game changing, new era of strings and sampling. SSS tone really is lovely, but that's no good if you're battling with it the whole time.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience Mark. It seems many people agree with you too.


So well put... this is such a great summary of Spitfire. Generally, spitfire have fantastic samples that sound amazing... just poor editing and usability that trips them up. If they did as you said, went back and edited and made everything super polished (I mean, how much could that cost? A man year maybe? couple hundred k all in?) and then relaunched libraries as fully polished, that could tempt myself and many others back in. But continuously pumping out new, flawed libraries and not fixing them or their back catalog... no thanks.

Also - they own their own player and copyright protection now. Start allowing resale! Or at least demos!!!


----------



## Baronvonheadless

mussnig said:


> One of the reasons I haven't succumbed to AROOF and it's extensions yet is the player. I do have enough RAM (I guess) and I like the sound a lot. But the loading times are already a buzz killer to me. I have BBCSO Pro and I am pretty sure I would use it more if the player was performing better.
> 
> I still bought stuff like Fractured Strings. But there I don't mind the player so much because I most likely use at most a handful of instances.


Oddly enough AROOF load times are really good. Much faster than bbc pro. And light years faster than Abbey Road 2.


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## Gerbil

Baronvonheadless said:


> Oddly enough AROOF load times are really good. Much faster than bbc pro. And light years faster than Abbey Road 2.


Less articulations to load, I suppose? I'm not sure. Not a tech guy.

With BBCSO, I find it's the first instrument that seems to take forever to load. If I keep one instance open then the others aren't so bad.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Gerbil said:


> Less articulations to load, I suppose? I'm not sure. Not a tech guy.
> 
> With BBCSO, I find it's the first instrument that seems to take forever to load. If I keep one instance open then the others aren't so bad.


Most likely.


----------



## Lord Daknight

RIR cabinet modeller.
Not because it's bad, but because I accidentally bought two copies. I just need one thanks


----------



## Corda1983

I wouldn't say I have any "regrets" to the extent they keep me up at night. But a few somewhat underwhelming purchases...

Ah man, I'm ancient enough to remember buying ProjectSAM Orchestral Brass Classic. ProjectSAM make some good stuff but that library wasn't among the best and I never got much use out of it.

I wouldn't say I regret buying Spitfire stuff but much of it has been ... a tad underwhelming. And obviously their marketing machine compounds the frustration because everything they release is supposedly the dawn of the future of sampling. I got Albion NEO and there's some beautiful textures and sounds in there, but the core articulations and band are... sort of OK but not all that useful. I don't make nearly as much music with it as I hoped I would, but it's not bad. Same thing goes for Albion ONE - I see why that library was popular as it opened up that orchestral sound to a lot of new people, but it's not really that useable other than blocking in the occasional idea or padding stuff out a bit. There's a lot of flagship SA stuff I don't own so I reserve judgement on some of their most famous and popular libraries - but one always gets the feeling it's not going to be _quite_ as good as promised.

Equally frustrated with BBCSO Core. Sounds lovely (upper dynamics brass excluded...) and it's by no means bad but, you know, it just feels like a world class idea and set of resources given a deliberately average treatment. I get it's a sort of lower budget all-in-one orchestra so there wasn't the economic benefit to going large on dynamics and RRs, but there's so much there that is good it's a shame it ends up feeling a bit limited. Equally frustrating is that I feel the need to get Pro for the extra mics, instruments and flexibility but I know, ultimately, it's still not going to be THE all in one orchestral solution it claims to be. I'd pay double for a better version of it with more attention to detail, but I guess that's not economically viable.

8Dio has the same frustrations. I have a few of their libraries and I feel there's a lot of quality occasionally tarnished by some quite basic quality and programming issues. Again - it's not awful, it's just not quite the experience you hope for when you purchase. Don't think I've ever bought a knock-it-out-the-park library from them, but there's enough good stuff there that it keeps remaining tantalising but ultimately never fully delivers.


----------



## Draco Solis

Corda1983 said:


> 8Dio has the same frustrations. I have a few of their libraries and I feel there's a lot of quality occasionally tarnished by some quite basic quality and programming issues. Again - it's not awful, it's just not quite the experience you hope for when you purchase. Don't think I've ever bought a knock-it-out-the-park library from them, but there's enough good stuff there that it keeps remaining tantalising but ultimately never fully delivers.


This is a lot of the issues I had with 8Dio stuff, especially when first starting out. It's really unclear how limited a lot of libraries are, and I've gotten a lot which I ended up never using. On the topic of quality, Anthology has some weird panning issues, especially in the high strings, and I _really_ don't like the mic mix page in 1990 Studio Grand.
Like you said, none of it is awful, but it never really delivers on what you hope to get out of them.


----------



## lastburai

Hi,

53 pages of regrets I guess I am going to join the misery.

I play the bass, electric and acoustic guitars, my problem is my acoustic guitar I have is not perfect for recording but it does have a 1/4 jack but that picks up so much noise needs fixing and currently unrecordable so the other solution is to use a microphone but the space I have for recording is very bad for recording, it is very reflective and boxy sounding room not great for recording and I am not able to move or modify the room in anyway so the next best thing is sample libraries.

I have been looking for a long time for a good solid, simple acoustic strumming sample library, so sometime ago I purchased the advance acoustic guitar steel library by 8dio that was just a totally wrong decision and something I wish I never brought. 

It’s not that the actual sound of the samples are bad it’s just it could not do what I wanted it to do. It was for a song for my album and the rhythm in the song was pretty complex I guess, it was in a triplet rhythm and it had lot of chord changes and knowing that I needed to program the rhythm using the interface they provided for steel string was just not going to work for me. 

On top of that the advance guitar Steel library can’t do inversions of chords and my song had some basic inversions. Reading the manual it says they recorded a lot JAZZ chords, they do have a lot of chords and out of the chords they recorded they were still missing one of the chords I needed for my song which was a standard sus2, they didn’t think to record that chord but record nearly everything else, they even recorded a dominant 7 sus2 but a b7 when wanting a standard sus2 chord is not going to work. 

So in the end I recorded my acoustic guitar using a microphone with the boxy room even so it sounds better than anything that library could ever do. It was money that I can't afford to lose really, though I guess for lead lines it is okay and I did use once, it was only for a lead line in another song but I regret that purchase a lot.

Out of the acoustic strumming guitar libraries I own I would say the best sounding is Kontakt's strumming acoustic 1 and 2. I have used them in some of my songs though they are limited to the actual loops they recorded and really if you want to make a full song out of those libraries it’s going to be pretty difficult to get something really unique and the user is going to have to mess around an awful lot to make that happen. Strum acoustic 1&2 can do sus2 chords but only strum acoustic 2 can do inversions using the bass function though only some patterns have that function. Maybe for small sections of a song that is not overly complicated Kontakts strumming acoustic 1 and 2 are pretty cool and work.

And that is probably the first two libraries I would recommend to someone looking for a strumming acoustic guitar pattern library.

I also brought Musiclab real guitar steel string 5 sometime ago and I thought THIS WAS the library that would change everything for me even after looking at some videos on YouTube. I said I am going to make the right purchase. However in the end I have yet to use it in a song, for some reason it just don't sound right to me and the interface is difficult to navigate. Musiclab guitar library does do sus2 chords and inversions and a lot of other stuff besides. it is not looped based like Kontakt's strum acoustic so the overall sound is nothing like Kontakt's strummed acoustic, maybe in a mix Musiclab could sound acceptable maybe good but I have not tried it in a mix so I don't know I just end up either using strum acoustic from Kontakt or record my acoustic guitar using the boxy sounding room.

These are purchases I do regret and still have not found that Acoustic guitar strum library that sounds good, that can do many chord types like sus2, sus4 chords that is simple to navigate and is simple to create a pattern and mix patterns and can do inversions with no problem.


----------



## andyhy

lastburai said:


> Hi,
> 
> 53 pages of regrets I guess I am going to join the misery.
> 
> I play the bass, electric and acoustic guitars, my problem is my acoustic guitar I have is not perfect for recording but it does have a 1/4 jack but that picks up so much noise needs fixing and currently unrecordable so the other solution is to use a microphone but the space I have for recording is very bad for recording, it is very reflective and boxy sounding room not great for recording and I am not able to move or modify the room in anyway so the next best thing is sample libraries.
> 
> I have been looking for a long time for a good solid, simple acoustic strumming sample library, so sometime ago I purchased the advance acoustic guitar steel library by 8dio that was just a totally wrong decision and something I wish I never brought.
> 
> It’s not that the actual sound of the samples are bad it’s just it could not do what I wanted it to do. It was for a song for my album and the rhythm in the song was pretty complex I guess, it was in a triplet rhythm and it had lot of chord changes and knowing that I needed to program the rhythm using the interface they provided for steel string was just not going to work for me.
> 
> On top of that the advance guitar Steel library can’t do inversions of chords and my song had some basic inversions. Reading the manual it says they recorded a lot JAZZ chords, they do have a lot of chords and out of the chords they recorded they were still missing one of the chords I needed for my song which was a standard sus2, they didn’t think to record that chord but record nearly everything else, they even recorded a dominant 7 sus2 but a b7 when wanting a standard sus2 chord is not going to work.
> 
> So in the end I recorded my acoustic guitar using a microphone with the boxy room even so it sounds better than anything that library could ever do. It was money that I can't afford to lose really, though I guess for lead lines it is okay and I did use once, it was only for a lead line in another song but I regret that purchase a lot.
> 
> Out of the acoustic strumming guitar libraries I own I would say the best sounding is Kontakt's strumming acoustic 1 and 2. I have used them in some of my songs though they are limited to the actual loops they recorded and really if you want to make a full song out of those libraries it’s going to be pretty difficult to get something really unique and the user is going to have to mess around an awful lot to make that happen. Strum acoustic 1&2 can do sus2 chords but only strum acoustic 2 can do inversions using the bass function though only some patterns have that function. Maybe for small sections of a song that is not overly complicated Kontakts strumming acoustic 1 and 2 are pretty cool and work.
> 
> And that is probably the first two libraries I would recommend to someone looking for a strumming acoustic guitar pattern library.
> 
> I also brought Musiclab real guitar steel string 5 sometime ago and I thought THIS WAS the library that would change everything for me even after looking at some videos on YouTube. I said I am going to make the right purchase. However in the end I have yet to use it in a song, for some reason it just don't sound right to me and the interface is difficult to navigate. Musiclab guitar library does do sus2 chords and inversions and a lot of other stuff besides. it is not looped based like Kontakt's strum acoustic so the overall sound is nothing like Kontakt's strummed acoustic, maybe in a mix Musiclab could sound acceptable maybe good but I have not tried it in a mix so I don't know I just end up either using strum acoustic from Kontakt or record my acoustic guitar using the boxy sounding room.
> 
> These are purchases I do regret and still have not found that Acoustic guitar strum library that sounds good, that can do many chord types like sus2, sus4 chords that is simple to navigate and is simple to create a pattern and mix patterns and can do inversions with no problem.


I don't know if this is what you're looking for but I recently purchased Session Guitarist Strummed Acoustic 2 and use it in combination with Scaler 2, blocking any notes generated that touch keyswitches using the free eaReckon midipolysher plugin. This enables me to produce unlimited chord types and inversions thereof. I admit I'm still experimenting with it but I'm very pleased with the results so far.


----------



## Ciochi

Most of them. With the afterward knowledge, I could have bought 9-10 libraries among the 100s I've got.


----------



## ModalRealist

Samples are a sham! They’re not virtual instruments they’re just recordings of actual instruments mapped to a keyboard! FAKE! I regret all of them.

/jokes


----------



## chrisav

I regret no virtual instrument. They've been virtually instrumental in me developing my mental virtues.


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## shropshirelad

lastburai said:


> I also brought Musiclab real guitar steel string 5 sometime ago and I thought THIS WAS the library that would change everything for me even after looking at some videos on YouTube. I said I am going to make the right purchase. However in the end I have yet to use it in a song, for some reason it just don't sound right to me and the interface is difficult to navigate. Musiclab guitar library does do sus2 chords and inversions and a lot of other stuff besides.


This one frustrates me too. I think there's a great instrument in there somewhere but I too find the interface unfathomable and just don't have time to learn to use it properly.


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## lastburai

andyhy said:


> I don't know if this is what you're looking for but I recently purchased Session Guitarist Strummed Acoustic 2 and use it in combination with Scaler 2, blocking any notes generated that touch keyswitches using the free eaReckon midipolysher plugin. This enables me to produce unlimited chord types and inversions thereof. I admit I'm still experimenting with it but I'm very pleased with the results so far.



Can I ask how are you able to get inversions of chords in Native Instruments Acoustic guitar strummer? As far as I know you can only get inversion of chords using NI acoustic guitar strummer 2 and then only using only the patterns that have a bass chord function.

I am not sure what scaler 2 is, it seems to help with chord creation not really sure, probably would not help me.

To be honest not looking to buy or currently don’t have money for a new strum library and to be real it probably won’t do what I want. Like I previously said NI acoustic strum 1&2 can do a lot, Acoustic strum 2 can do inversions but limited to the few patterns that support the bass feature, overall for me it takes a lot of time to get things I want it to do.



shropshirelad said:


> This one frustrates me too. I think there's a great instrument in there somewhere but I too find the interface unfathomable and just don't have time to learn to use it properly.



Yeah I agree with you on that the interface of music lab it just throws everything at the user, I just want some strummed chords for my track again I’ll reference NI strummed acoustic 1&2 it starts up you play a chord and that’s it, it works. Granted music lab does have the solo mode so it has that but really I am just looking for some strummed chords.

Also to do a SUS2 chord you have to add the root of the chord an octave above as the engine can’t distinguish between a SUS4 chord in 1st inversion and SUS2 chord in root position and that bugs me and I don’t like it. It is great it has a lot of chord options though.


----------



## Cyberic

Regret _Aurora_ _Choir by Aria Sound_, and _Edgy Guitar for Kontakt _from PastToFutureReverbs.

Both unusable. No reply to a query sent to PastToFutureReverbs hasn’t helped.


----------



## Lunatique

I bought most of IK Multimedia's products during their big sale in a big bundle, and I wish I hadn't, because I can't see myself using any of it. None of it sounded/played at the level of other competitors' similar products. I'll never fall for the big sale thing again, because even if it's cheap, it's still a waste of money if you never use it. 

It's not all bad though, since the bundle included audio effects too, and those I would actually use. But all the sampled/modeled stuff like Sampletank, Syntronik, Miroslav, MODO Bass, MODO drums--I doubt I would use any of it when I have better alternatives. 

There are also a couple other sample libraries I have owned for more than a decade but never once used in any tracks because they never sounded right for my needs. Ministry of Rock is one, and this is even more true now that my chops on the guitar and bass have leveled up enough that I could just play what I needed and it'll sound far better than even what an expert can do with the library. 

Steven Slate drums 4 (and the EX Expansions) is another one. I always ended up using Addictive Drums instead. SSD4 always sounded too in-yer-face and lacked flexibility. Maybe if I did more aggressive rock/metal stuff it'll work better in those contexts. But in the past, even when I did do metal and industrial music, I still preferred Addictive Drums.


----------



## Rudianos

Bought IK Total Studio Max 3.5 for $160 at Best Service with holiday vouchers. Makes me regret all those stupid group buys. I bought this to allow me to upgrade down the line. There's a lot of content here there's some really good stuff... even sounds... Plugins are a highlight. The usable content is worth about $250 to me. I think I maybe put $600 their way.


----------



## WWBiscuit

Lunatique said:


> I bought most of IK Multimedia's products during their big sale in a big bundle, and I wish I hadn't, because I can't see myself using any of it. None of it sounded/played at the level of other competitors' similar products. I'll never fall for the big sale thing again, because even if it's cheap, it's still a waste of money if you never use it.
> 
> It's not all bad though, since the bundle included audio effects too, and those I would actually use. But all the sampled/modeled stuff like Sampletank, Syntronik, Miroslav, MODO Bass, MODO drums--I doubt I would use any of it when I have better alternatives.
> 
> There are also a couple other sample libraries I have owned for more than a decade but never once used in any tracks because they never sounded right for my needs. Ministry of Rock is one, and this is even more true now that my chops on the guitar and bass have leveled up enough that I could just play what I needed and it'll sound far better than even what an expert can do with the library.
> 
> Steven Slate drums 4 (and the EX Expansions) is another one. I always ended up using Addictive Drums instead. SSD4 always sounded too in-yer-face and lacked flexibility. Maybe if I did more aggressive rock/metal stuff it'll work better in those contexts. But in the past, even when I did do metal and industrial music, I still preferred Addictive Drums.



Totally agree with your take on Sampletank, Syntronik and Miroslav. I do use MODO Bass though - their Hofner sounds really good to my ears. Are you not getting any use out of the IK Hammond organ? That is truly excellent.


----------



## Lunatique

WWBiscuit said:


> Totally agree with your take on Sampletank, Syntronik and Miroslav. I do use MODO Bass though - their Hofner sounds really good to my ears. Are you not getting any use out of the IK Hammond organ? That is truly excellent.


The Hammond sounded good, but I rarely ever have any need for organ sounds. It's just not part of the musical vocabulary in the genres I'm into, and I'd have to force it in just to get some use out of it.


----------



## johncdl

Bluemount Score said:


> Albion ONE. It's a good starter library but I barely got into it, before "better", non section based libraries replaced it for me.
> I use the Easter Island hits here and there but that's basically it.


SImilar situation here. Only use it for ens patches and Darwin


----------



## Rudianos

Bluemount Score said:


> Albion ONE. It's a good starter library but I barely got into it, before "better", non section based libraries replaced it for me.
> I use the Easter Island hits here and there but that's basically it.


Oh yeah yeah I got this for Black Friday last year. You know it's just one of those names that gets thrown around a lot. I just uhh... just no purpose to it. But it's there


----------

