# Any good guide on instrument "power ranges"?



## Gingerbread (Dec 14, 2022)

While I have some great guides on general instrument ranges and recommended playable ranges, I haven't yet found a guide on each instrument's power range, ie. the octave (or more) where the instrument _really_ sings and shines at its most vibrant. Sometimes referred to as the "golden range".

Does anyone have a guide expressly focusing on that?


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## synthetic (Dec 14, 2022)

A good rule of thumb is to look at the instrument’s part on a transposing score. The bottom of the staff is mellow or muddy. The top of the staff is the power range. Above the staff gets thin and weaker, below gets muddy and weaker. Very general and lots of exceptions but a good thing to keep in mind. Also if you want a section to blend, keep them all in the same power or non power range. For example a string melody in the power range and a low brass pad in their lower range.


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## liquidlino (Dec 14, 2022)

The spectratone chart from Alexander publishing seems like what you're describing?


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## borisb2 (Dec 14, 2022)

synthetic said:


> A good rule of thumb is to look at the instrument’s part on a transposing score. The bottom of the staff is mellow or muddy. The top of the staff is the power range. Above the staff gets thin and weaker, below gets muddy and weaker. Very general and lots of exceptions but a good thing to keep in mind. Also if you want a section to blend, keep them all in the same power or non power range. For example a string melody in the power range and a low brass pad in their lower range.


Was about to give the exact same advice .. the instruments corresponding staff is the best guide - as a general rule of thumb at least


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## Gingerbread (Dec 14, 2022)

synthetic said:


> A good rule of thumb is to look at the instrument’s part on a transposing score. The bottom of the staff is mellow or muddy. The top of the staff is the power range. Above the staff gets thin and weaker, below gets muddy and weaker. Very general and lots of exceptions but a good thing to keep in mind. Also if you want a section to blend, keep them all in the same power or non power range. For example a string melody in the power range and a low brass pad in their lower range.


Thank you, that's really helpful! Thinking that through, I can see how that is a great way to think about it. Looking at Jurassic Park score, I can see how the horns' power notes are all at the top of the staff.



liquidlino said:


> The spectratone chart from Alexander publishing seems like what you're describing?


I have it. Looking at it, yeah it seems to mostly track with the advice with the staff, with some slight exceptions. Thanks!


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## synthetic (Dec 15, 2022)

The “top of the staff” is so you don’t need to memorize instrument ranges like the Spectratone chart. This is actually the “Zed Clef” from Scott Smalley’s orchestration class.


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## NoamL (Dec 15, 2022)

General principles are good...

Why don't we each contribute a little about the instruments we play?

I made this little chart for cello.


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## HarmonKard (Dec 15, 2022)

This might help. I am not sure how real-world practical it is, but it might be worth a look.



https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HKljAwSp7cA/XVGPFOX_cQI/AAAAAAAAH48/vskdyL6UTyoKd0te2e3ekEOgFpL8meScQCLcBGAs/s1600/musical%2Binstrument%2Bfrequency%2Bchart.jpg


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## Great Zed (Dec 15, 2022)

I've found this a good resource: https://www.vsl.info/en/academy/


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## NoamL (Dec 15, 2022)

R.G. said:


> Anyway, I was initially thinking that there was little chance this would be a serious thread, and am sorry to see that that turned out to be the case. If it had proven otherwise I was considering posting my list of "power ranges", which is based on instrument acoustics, experience with real musicians playing real instruments, and the informal interviews and conversations I've had with orchestral musicians. But I decided to wait until I knew for sure what the attitude was here so I wouldn't waste my time and give away too much to entitled ingrates, and now I know.



Like someone posted in another thread a couple weeks ago - it's not very useful to newbie and intermediate people when someone's only contribution to a thread is "all of the above is bullshit and you need to educate yourself with self-study using the right sources." OK, what sources? Also the whole point of a forum is to share ideas and knowledge. If you disagree or think you know better, cool!

In that line - I made this a few years ago when working with the Seattle Symphony and also a community orchestra based on interviews and discussions with players - in between rehearsals! I think a bunch of the adjectives I asked players to agree/disagree in describing their instrument ranges were drawn from either the Adler or Piston books. It was interesting to see what players thought about their own instruments. Anyway I've found it useful in the years since as a quick reference. However, I *don't* play a woodwind instrument - so anyone here who does, such as Anne and José, could provide much more insight no doubt -


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## Trash Panda (Dec 15, 2022)

@NoamL thank you for making a meaningful contribution in knowledge sharing. That is a seriously cool chart. You're one of the good ones.


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## José Herring (Dec 15, 2022)

There was a dude that use to orchestrate for Danny Elfman back in the day. He orchestrated some of the original batman scores. He has this theory and a way to get maximum power out of every instrument. He called it the "Zed" clef. It does have some workability to it. Though after a while I just got tired of writting everything in those ranges. I mean seriously sometimes you just want the gunk down low and the shrill up high.

Scott Smalley was his name and he was a pretty cool dude. Looks like he may have classes online.


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## Gingerbread (Dec 15, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Like someone posted in another thread a couple weeks ago - it's not very useful to newbie and intermediate people when someone's only contribution to a thread is "all of the above is bullshit and you need to educate yourself with self-study using the right sources." OK, what sources? Also the whole point of a forum is to share ideas and knowledge. If you disagree or think you know better, cool!
> 
> In that line - I made this a few years ago when working with the Seattle Symphony and also a community orchestra based on interviews and discussions with players - in between rehearsals! I think a bunch of the adjectives I asked players to agree/disagree in describing their instrument ranges were drawn from either the Adler or Piston books. It was interesting to see what players thought about their own instruments. Anyway I've found it useful in the years since as a quick reference. However, I *don't* play a woodwind instrument - so anyone here who does, such as Anne and José, could provide much more insight no doubt -


What a beautiful and useful chart, Noam. I'm going to study that. Thanks!


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## Gingerbread (Dec 15, 2022)

José Herring said:


> There was a dude that use to orchestrate for Danny Elfman back in the day. He orchestrated some of the original batman scores. He has this theory and a way to get maximum power out of every instrument. He called it the "Zed" clef. It does have some workability to it. Though after a while I just got tired of writting everything in those ranges. I mean seriously sometimes you just want the gunk down low and the shrill up high.
> 
> Scott Smalley was his name and he was a pretty cool dude. Looks like he may have classes online.


Here's an old thread that describes his 'zed clef' method. It's still a little murky to me, I'd probably want to see a video example of how it's used.





__





The Zed Cleff


anyone attended the scott smalley orchestration course and remember about the Zed cleff and wouldnt mind explaining it. i think i remember its a way to cut down on transposition time and check harmony.. but its been a while and dont remember the details.




vi-control.net


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## José Herring (Dec 15, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> Here's an old thread that describes his 'zed clef' method. It's still a little murky to me, I'd probably want to see a video example of how it's used.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I took the course if you give me a some time I'll remember what he said. It's really fairly simple.


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## Gingerbread (Dec 15, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I took the course if you give me a some time I'll remember what he said. It's really fairly simple.


That would be wonderful, thank you!!


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## José Herring (Dec 15, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> That would be wonderful, thank you!!


I found a guy name doug on another form that will remain unmentioned but he went into a good explanation of it. I'll post it below:

*The Z Clef theory *
The Z clef theory came about for Smalley as a necessary reaction to the change from transposed scores to concert scores, now used on the scoring stages of Hollywood. This change was instigated by Danny Elfmann’s “hostile take over “ of the Hollywood film- scoring scene. The benefits of using concert scores on the scoring stage is that composers and conductors can address any questions fielded from a session orchestra quickly, without having to be concerned about the transposition of each instruments, thus correcting misspellings of chords or notes quickly. The side affect of concert scores is that no longer can good instrument and section voicings be immediately seen on the score. That is, a transposed score shows what the players are reading and can quickly reveal if an instrument family is playing in an equal (relative) register, with equal timbre and strength. Without this facility, a new method of checking chord voicings was necessary, the z clef.
The z clef is a measuring tool to establish if instruments are playing with equal timbre and strength. Its application is particularly useful when choosing voicings for instrument sections playing accompanying figures. Batman by Danny Elfmann in bar 16 is the best example of why the z clef is necessary when writing concert scores. It can be seen in this example that the chord voicing on beat one in the strings is weak and has come about for two reasons.

The string voicings have been writing from a keyboard using a sequencer and a sample string library. The voicing seen in the Batman example is heavily divided in the violas and cellos. Put simply, it sounded great on the sequencer but didn’t account for the fact that when strings perform divisi, they lose dynamic impact.


The voicing used created on the keyboard is an easy “chord shape” on the keyboard, however, when transferred to real strings the voicing is in no way sympathetic to strings.
To avoid poor chord voicings for strings or any section of the orchestra the z clef “acid test” can be applied. In principle the z clef “acid test” measures two aspects of a chord voicing:

The spacing of each voice/instrument within a 6th of each other on the z clef


The lowest voice/instrument sitting either withing the 6th (created in the z clef)

or outside of this 6th as dictated by the harmony.
This concept of good chord voicing comes from traditional SATB writing. That is Soprano, Alto must note be further than a 6th from each other and so to Alto and Tenor, the Bass can be independent of the other parts as is dictated by the harmony.
The poor Batman String voicing isolated is as follows: 



The process application of the z clef to check this voicing is simple. Transferring the notes of each instrument from their original clef to the z clef without changing its position on the stave. That is, disregard the clef the note originated from and write the note in the same position on the stave on the z clef. For simplicities sake, accidentals have not been transferred to the z clef, as they are inconsequential.
As is seen here, the chord voicing is weak because not all the notes sit within an interval of a 6th. Violin II plays the lowest note on the z clef. This note and the instrument playing it is being cancelled out by the other instruments causing the overall chord to be weaker that necessary. As previously mentioned, further contributing to the weakness of the chord is the divisi Viola and Cello writing in this section. As can be noted by the activity in the other sections of the orchestra, a stronger chord voicing is necessary for the strings to be heard. 
The steps to create better chord voicings and avoid the afore mentioned problem can be done by using the z clef in the following way:

Choose the melody note or highest note for the chord.


Add the bass note as dictated by the harmony. (This note can sit within a 6th of

the melody note on the z clef or outside of this range.


Add the 3rd of the chord, checking that it sits within a 6th from the melody note on

the z clef.


Add the 5th of the chord, checking that it sits within a 6th from the melody note on

the z clef.


Add the final note of the chord for a complete string section voicing, checking

that it sits within a 6th from the melody note on the z clef.







The aggregate of this approach to voicing chords for strings, which also has application to brass or woodwind, is that each instrument within the section is physically playing (relatively speaking) in the same place on the instrument, giving each instrument equal opportunity to be heard. Following this method through to its logical conclusion, it can be observed that as the melody or highest note rises in pitch so to do the lower notes of the chord voicing, each in their relative range to the melody note. This progressive rise in pitch creates an equal increase in intensity of sound for all instruments concerned, causing perpetual balance within a section.


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## José Herring (Dec 15, 2022)

Also I long abandoned that approach. It's far easier for me to just remember the ranges of the instruments, what they sound like in different registers and I still use transposition because transposing and reading in different clefs, isn't really that big of a deal.


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## NoamL (Dec 15, 2022)

R.G. said:


> can name just one orchestral instrument that meets the following criteria:


Dunno about "thin and weaker" above the staff .... but I think the advice that the bread and butter notes lie inside the staff when reading transposed score is a solid rule of thumb. I think this rule is pretty applicable for cello, viola, oboe, F horn, and trumpet. For each of those, at the top of the staff they gradually transition into an "upper" register that has a different timbre.



R.G. said:


> I'll post what everyone here is apparently entitled to have


if you want to share it, cool! if not, cool!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 16, 2022)

In another thread someone gave me an advice which I try to remember, because it was a good one IMO: Whenever you're asking for help about something, start off by showing you're making an effort yourself to understand it, because then people who knows stuff are much more willing to help.


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## Gingerbread (Dec 16, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> In another thread someone gave me an advice which I try to remember, because it was a good one IMO: Whenever you're asking for help about something, start off by showing you're making an effort yourself to understand it, because then people who knows stuff are much more willing to help.


No doubt good advice. I guess I'm just wondering how my inquiry differs from every other question asked on this site? Is this getting too close to 'secret information'? I haven't found it mentioned explicitly in any of the orchestration books I have, including Adler.


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## synthetic (Dec 17, 2022)

I've been giving this some thought after someone took offense, and I stand 100% behind what I wrote. 

"What are the instrument power ranges" is a beginner's orchestration question. So I gave a level 1 answer, a hack that I learned in a Scott Smalley class. I knew there would be some "whatabout" guys but like I said, it's a beginner-level answer. 

A beginner's goal is to go from sucking to not-sucking. They're a long way from amazing – that takes years of practice – but they won't get there if they get discouraged. If you throw too much at a beginner (like memorizing the ranges of a Bb clarinet), their attitude changes to "this is exactly as hard as I thought it was" and they quit. If a kid wants to learn guitar, you can give them a folk guitar and have them play scales, or you can give them an electric and teach them something that sounds a bit like Green Day. Guess which has better retention? Once they are having fun, THEN you have them learn scales and fix any bad habits. So the Zed clef is a shortcut to building an arrangement that doesn't sound muddy, or to help you troubleshoot why something might not be working. 

Orchestration is daunting, there are so many instruments to learn and they each have their own history and idiosyncrasies. So much of Hollywood in general is insular and wants to keep things secret. (I once described my experience watching a scoring session here, and I can't tell you how much people freaked out about that. How dare I open the kimono. I pulled it down in an hour.) 

My level 2 answer would be, "find some scores you like and emulate that." Artists have been learning by emulating for thousands of years. The opening chord of the Star Wars theme is pretty powerful. Most of the instruments are in their power ranges, why do the trumpets stick out? Maybe because it's a Bb and trumpets are Bb so all their valves are open, and they're also one of the loudest instruments in the orchestra. But transpose it up a third and it will sound completely different, if it's even playable. Transcribing a few bars of a score by ear is also great practice, especially when you have the actual score to compare when you're finished. 

Level 3 would be, "find some books, courses, and groups on the subject." It sounds like he already read the Adler book but it didn't make things any clearer. I usually learn a few things from a book, then move to the next one. There are a bunch of online courses, I like Norman Ludwin's course but there are tons of them. If you're in the LA area, there's a group called Academy of Scoring Arts that meets once a month to look at scores over Italian food. They have great guests and online videos too. 

Level 4, "get your music performed by real musicians." You'll learn a ton with this. Why was my flute part so difficult to play? Why were the horns louder than I expected? Some classes or programs include 15 minutes with an orchestra playing your music. You can also find online orchestras to record your stuff, or go back to college. 

Finally, level 5 once you're an expert, give something back. You learn things better yourself through teaching, because it makes you think about why something works the way it does. And it makes you understand a beginner's frustration with a complex topic. 

John Williams still looks at orchestral scores as part of his daily routine. You never really arrive, keep learning.


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## ed buller (Dec 17, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Like someone posted in another thread a couple weeks ago - it's not very useful to newbie and intermediate people when someone's only contribution to a thread is "all of the above is bullshit and you need to educate yourself with self-study using the right sources." OK, what sources? Also the whole point of a forum is to share ideas and knowledge. If you disagree or think you know better, cool!
> 
> In that line - I made this a few years ago when working with the Seattle Symphony and also a community orchestra based on interviews and discussions with players - in between rehearsals! I think a bunch of the adjectives I asked players to agree/disagree in describing their instrument ranges were drawn from either the Adler or Piston books. It was interesting to see what players thought about their own instruments. Anyway I've found it useful in the years since as a quick reference. However, I *don't* play a woodwind instrument - so anyone here who does, such as Anne and José, could provide much more insight no doubt -


very cool. Thanks. Do you have one for the cowbell choir by chance ?

best

e


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## ScoringFilm (Dec 17, 2022)

What about this one made by @Zedcars







or the Spectratone Chart


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## Great Zed (Dec 17, 2022)

ScoringFilm said:


> What about this one made by @Zedcars





ScoringFilm said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/grkt6jrm4ragaw6/Instrument%20Reference%20Chart%20v6.1.pdf?dl=0 (<a href="https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/instrument-reference-chart-v4-1-gif.92605/"
> target="_blank">
> <img src="https://vi-control.net/community/data/attachments/91/91384-d911400b218a61ef842598fd7af171cf.jpg"
> class="bbImage "
> ...



Whoa, this chart looks very useful. Thanks for sharing!


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## Zedcars (Dec 17, 2022)

ScoringFilm said:


> What about this one made by @Zedcars
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/grkt6jrm4ragaw6/Instrument%20Reference%20Chart%20v6.1.pdf?dl=0 (<a href="https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/instrument-reference-chart-v4-1-gif.92605/"
> target="_blank">
> ...


It’s here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/egt8phi8wpyy1t2/Instrument%20Reference%20Chart%20v6.1.zip?dl=0
Contains the PDF and a very old Sibelius file saved under Sibelius version 6 (iirc) with the intended font.

If you just want the PDF it’s here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/grkt6jrm4ragaw6/Instrument%20Reference%20Chart%20v6.1.pdf?dl=0
This will be illegible on A4 paper, so use A3 and laminate it for longevity.

It looks a bit strange on screen due to my use of graphical ledger lines. When printed it looks much better.

Cheers for mentioning my ancient chart. 

Edit: I’ve only just realised you already linked to it. Thanks. I had no idea anyone else was even aware of its existence! Ha.


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## mducharme (Dec 17, 2022)

Part of the issue I have found in the past with the generalization of certain instruments that they are weak in the bass register or get stronger as they go up (or vice versa) is that it can lead to certain fundamental misunderstandings.

In my first orchestral piece I wrote for an high quiet high oboe, with a diminuendo from pp to niente. I thought this would be easy because of the generalization of the oboe that it is strong in its low register and gets weaker as it goes higher. So the top of the oboe's range, the weakest part according to the charts, should be the easiest to play really quietly in, no? Instead, it was actually extremely difficult, and it is because it is so difficult to get the instrument to speak in that register. Even though it is a weak register for the instrument, it is easy to drop down from "sounding" to "not sounding".

Same thing with low tenor trombones. I wanted a quiet low trombone passage and wrote the tenor trombones in their bottom range (without going down to pedal tones). Again, much more difficult than I wanted. I figured since it was the bottom of the tenor trombone range, that it would be really easy to play soft. Instead, the tuning wasn't great if it did sound, and sometimes it didn't sound at all. If I had moved it to bass trombone it would have been no problem.

Something that has to be added to generalizations about the ranges is that the extremes can present certain difficulties like these that charts cannot always properly convey.


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## JSTube (Dec 17, 2022)

Rather than arguing about whose guide or principals are better:

I'm astounded by the lack of ability of members here who seem to have just endless amounts of money for new versions of the same software they already own ... to just take a beginner lesson on each instrument in the orchestral family.

You'd actually learn a lot.

P.S. You can learn a lot about tessitura by following along to good recordings and reading the respective scores in real-time.

But then again, I'm for direct-familiarity. (YMMV)
Definitely don't learn how to play In The Hall of the Mountain King on a bassoon, then clarinet, then oboe. It's definitely not going to teach you anything, and definitely nowhere near as much as a forum post by a random stranger on V-I hyphen Control dot Net. This internet generation mentality is as such: Everything needs to be a quickly-consoomable guide, to hell with discipline in music, and the salty dogs know NOTHING about which they speak!

If we don't want to go near real instruments as composers, why pretend that the real-world limitations of those instruments even matter? Just compress the hell out of everything and multiband it to be whatever tessitura and timbre you want it to be. RIDE THOSE FADERS IN for the dynamics in after the fact. Again, are you really putting anything on music stands of real players? Probably not.

Lest your virtual oboe player be mad you wrote a note above the staff... or you virtual clarinet player about *octaves*...


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## MusicIstheBest (Dec 17, 2022)

A great tool also is simply listening to a piece with the score and following along. Additionally I found doing mockups of parts of the score, where I'm entering in all of the parts one by one (in Finale), is very beneficial for learning exactly how and why things are working.


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## NoamL (Dec 17, 2022)

R.G. said:


> It's encouraging to see more people contributing in a positive manner, with healthy mindsets. Anything that helps people up their game is good. I understand the utility of consolidated range outlines—*which are fine and helpful*—though they are obviously of very limited use and pretty generic, and I had previously thought that some people here were a little bit farther along than what these give you. Honestly, my miscalculation, but how would I know beforehand? But more important, there's no way for me to do a consolidated range chart and include the type of info I include in my breakdowns.
> 
> Going by the OP's genuine inquiry, my interpretation was that he or she was looking for something specific, with respect to specific notes *within* the range. To do this to the utmost at a professional level, you have to get into a level of detail that I've now been instructed may *discourage* a beginner. But I hope that that's only true for the person who said it and that he or she was not presuming to speak for everyone else as if there couldn't somehow be any departure from that limitation. I never had such a breakpoint, so I can't relate.
> 
> ...


This is pretty cool. 

I'm curious how you handle instruments where there are multiple options for playing the same pitch like, for instance, cello and (the modern double) horn.




MusicIstheBest said:


> A great tool also is simply listening to a piece with the score and following along. Additionally I found doing mockups of parts of the score, where I'm entering in all of the parts one by one (in Finale), is very beneficial for learning exactly how and why things are working.


Both of these are great ideas. Another is if you go on forums for particular instruments, introduce yourself as a composer and ask people what their favorite solo piece or concerto for their instrument is - another question to ask is who is their favorite composer (for their instrument) and why.


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## rgames (Dec 17, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> While I have some great guides on general instrument ranges and recommended playable ranges, I haven't yet found a guide on each instrument's power range, ie. the octave (or more) where the instrument _really_ sings and shines at its most vibrant. Sometimes referred to as the "golden range".
> 
> Does anyone have a guide expressly focusing on that?


That's not something that's well-communicated in a guide.

It's kind of like asking someone to write a guide for what different flavors taste like: it's an ineffective way to communicate the information. 99.99% of your understanding will come from experiencing the tastes; maybe 0.01% will come from the guide. I think it's more like 0.00%.

If you want to learn about the characteristics of various instruments then you need to spend about a decade working with them. Attending live concerts is good but the absolute best way to learn that information is to attend rehearsals, especially as a member of the ensemble.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 19, 2022)

The Essential Dictionary of Orchestration has handy ranges and tonal and dynamic descriptions for each instrument.


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## Gingerbread (Dec 19, 2022)

R.G. said:


> @Gingerbread, I don't know if you're still interested in this subject but I'm going to leave this here just in case. This only covers trumpets and trombones a bit, but I may post a little more for a few other instruments if there is any interest left, _but not nearly in this detail_. I have no idea if any of this is what you're looking for, and this may run a little long, but when possible I'll try to leave out any routine details one can find in a decent orchestration book. The essence of the information below is not covered very thoroughly in any of them from what I recall.
> __________
> 
> The point of my prior attempts to clear away the chatter was to prevent confusion between a visual trick for scoring string voicings in registers of relative equivalence with what you actually asked about. Most people just read the notes to do that and don't add an extra layer of work, but in any event, it was misapplied here and doesn't have anything to do with defining the assertive, standout ranges, since that would be impossible, if I've correctly interpreted your meaning of "power range."
> ...


This is so fantastic, thank you so much for going in-depth on this. It makes complete sense, and I'll be digesting the info for a bit so it gets properly internalized. It also gives me a framework to better study the other instruments' ranges. Btw, I love the tip about using tenor clef for tbn and mezzo-soprano for horns, that really helps conceptualize where the meaty part of their range lies. This is very appreciated!


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## MusicIstheBest (Dec 19, 2022)

R.G. said:


> Just make sure to switch it to bass clef for the final output of the big band score.


Yeah, jazz trombonists prefer bass clef pretty much always. They might get annoyed at tenor clef, and would rather read a bunch of ledger lines.


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## NoamL (Dec 23, 2022)

R.G. said:


> Okay, just realize that the "power range" for horns—according to my interpretation of your original question—doesn't include the entire tessitura, and includes a couple notes not in it. But that's a little vague, so I'm going to put something together this afternoon. To save time I'll need to reappropriate a couple things I did in the past and just edit them a bit to shift the focus.


That's intriguing! From score study I absorbed the idea that their 'cash register' range is about G-G (concert) and above that up to D or Eb (concert) is like an extra powerful / "soaring" range to be used more sparingly. Wonder if you agree/disagree.


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