# CineBrass PRO - More info!



## Cinesamples (Jun 8, 2011)

Hey guys, 

About that announcement we've been hinting at...

Here it is:

*CineBrass PRO* is coming this Fall!!

Same deal: SONY, Dennis Sands, Union... but 2x the content of CineBrass 1

The recording dates at SONY have been booked for July. (squeezed in right before Williams' Tin Tin score)

Mutes? Yes.
Extensive Soloists, with artics? Yes.
CineOrch style antics? Yes.
Feedback from you guys in the coming weeks as to what YOU want in the expansion? Yes!
Competitively affordable and no-brainer upgrade options? You'll see...


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 8, 2011)

Post 2 of 4,534 in this thread...

Terrific news guys!


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## Ed (Jun 8, 2011)

Awesome!!

If you could give us a list of what you are planning we could know if there's anything you should think about :D

Are you planning anything for the legato? I think that could be a lot better as I think I said.


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## Cinesamples (Jun 8, 2011)

FYI, CineBrass PRO will be entirely new content, and an expansion to this existing CineBrass version.


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## FireGS (Jun 8, 2011)

*passes out*


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 8, 2011)

OK, here's my first off-the-top-of-my-head OTT request for the additional articulations:

Sustain attack
Trills
C.I.T.E double / triple tonging
Falls
Doits
Shakes

...and these additional instruments...

2x trumpets
2x bones
2x horns
a solo bone with slides.

An A.R.T style staccato sequencer

...and some uber clever Greg scripting that can combine material from Pro with the original in single patches!


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## Casey Edwards (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

OMG I'm so glad you guys are doing this...for a minute there I thought I was going to have to buy Hollywood Brass just to have my needs fulfilled. (i.e. Brass trills are a necessity.) I'm sure Hollywood Brass is going to sound amazing, but unless PLAY 3 is a HUGE step forward I really don't want to touch it.


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## autopilot (Jun 8, 2011)

Jeez - I only just recovered from the last thread


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## windshore (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm really excited about this. I would love you guys to really take the time and get FFF sustains. It might make sense to book for 2 different days ideally but there's GOT to be a way to get the balls-to-the-wall brass sound that happens when a whole ensemble is pushing hard for a conductor. 

If you can capture that, you'll be king of the world!


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## RobertTewes (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Omg!
You guys rock!
Assuming the same arrangement with the musicians guild?
I am loving Cinebrass 1.0.
More fun to come in the Fall!
Thanks Mike, Mike and Gregg! _-)


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## sevaels (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Mariachi Trumpet!

Por favor


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## whinecellar (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

As posted early in the other thread, I am willing to pay (dearly!) for a library that lets me do this kind of thing:

http://soundcloud.com/whinecellarstudio ... hort-brass

PLEASE!!!


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## Casey Edwards (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Can't wait for this!


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## Jack Weaver (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Stunning news.

Excellent corporate chess move.

Timing par excellence.


.


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## Peter Alexander (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Since the library is called CineBrass an expectation is set that I can recreate film score brass writing with this library. So what are the primary articulations used?

1. Double and triple tonguing
2. Rapid lines (ala Mike Verta's demo)
3. Two to three pairs of horns recorded f and above since gwo horns at f = 1 tpt at f.
4. Possibly tuben but not in octaves
5. Fanfare figures
6. Low trombones in spread voicings

SOURCE SCORES THAT ARE PUBLISHED
The Cowboys - John Williams
Dual of The Fates - John Williams
Crown Imperial - William Walton
Pictures At An Exhibition/Great Gate of Kiev - Ravel/Mussorgsky
Four Sea Interludes #1 - Benjamin Britten
Sounds and Scores - Mancini
The Red Pony - Aaron Copland

SOURCE SCORES TO BUG FOR
Silverado - Bruce Broughton
Cutthroat Island - John Debney


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## Joe S (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Have I lost my mind or didn't you just release Cinebrass today. Guys this looks really bad when you should be talking about the library you unleashed today for 400 bucks. Not diverting our attention to some future fixer upgrade. It's getting a bit smelly around here.


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## jamwerks (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Jack Weaver @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> Stunning news.
> 
> Excellent corporate chess move.
> 
> ...



+ 1

_-) _-) _-) _-)


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## mikebarry (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

"Joe S..."  

There is nothing shady about it at all. It's been planned for a long time. Besides I am sure our customers appreciate having spending options and having input on the process.

And it's not a fixer at all. 

It's going to be a CineOrch themed approach to it all. Kind of our specialty.


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## Casey Edwards (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



mikebarry @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> "Joe S..."
> 
> There is nothing shady about it at all. It's been planned for a long time. Besides I am sure our customers appreciate having spending options and having input on the process.
> 
> ...



I can't believe people actually believe that you guys just pulled such a high profile and dense library plan out of your ass. Some people... 

Anyways, can you enlighten me on exactly what is the "CineOrch approach?" I'm familiar with the library, just not the approach.


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## Peter Alexander (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



mikebarry @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> "Joe S..."
> 
> There is nothing shady about it at all. It's been planned for a long time. Besides I am sure our customers appreciate having spending options and having input on the process.
> 
> ...



You're getting immediate feedback from your composing peers who also work in Hollywood (and other places) and you're responding immediately in a receptive positive manner. Looks good to me. Keep it up!


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## vasio (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Joe S @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> Have I lost my mind or didn't you just release Cinebrass today. Guys this looks really bad when you should be talking about the library you unleashed today for 400 bucks. Not diverting our attention to some future fixer upgrade. It's getting a bit smelly around here.



yeah and I think it was you who cut the cheese. seriously, wtf would this really matter to you unless you have a vested interest (read: dev in a sock puppet)


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## mikebarry (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



vasio @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Joe S @ Thu Jun 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Have I lost my mind or didn't you just release Cinebrass today. Guys this looks really bad when you should be talking about the library you unleashed today for 400 bucks. Not diverting our attention to some future fixer upgrade. It's getting a bit smelly around here.
> ...



ps mods this is not me! <---


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## Joe S (Jun 8, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

OK guys. You are probably right.


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## bluejay (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Yay ... wow awesome news!

Great stopped horn sounds would really be fantastic as would mutes for all sections.

Single trombones that I can use to make chords (i.e. not recorded as soloists, just recorded to make up a single note in a chord). Not sure if this requires 3 separate trombones and a kind of arranger functionality to avoid phasing or other issues but yes I want to be able to make convincing trombone chords if possible.

Still downloading CineBrass at the moment!


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## Justus (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

I love what you started with the "Trumpet FX".
Chromatically sampled FX are something I am looking for for quite a while, looped wild takes, ostinatos and other crazy stuff that's missing in our palette.


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## Daniel James (Jun 9, 2011)

I mentioned a few things in my video i made. Mostly all have been mentioned.... Two extas i would like to see are :

1. Legatos in the articulations patch (sustain pedal)

2. I would love to see an articulations patch for a stupidly oversized section, maybe 8-16 horns LOL i know this will never happen but dammit I like to dream.

Dan


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## hazza (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

If you could add the divisi functionality of VSL Dimension Brass then I'm sold. I want to be able to have 3 trumpets blazing in unison, then switch to triads with one trumpet on each note.

I must admit that while CineBrass sounds awesome, the patch listing made me think I'd better start filling the piggy bank for HWB... but maybe not now?


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## devastat (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

This is great news, thanks Cinesamples! 

My request would be a solo horn with (mod-wheel) articulations.


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## synergy543 (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Sounds good... as long as you hire Mike Verta as your beta tester. 
(3 mics are better than....sorry)

And maybe 2-Steps from Hell to do you promo trailer?

That'll show 'em you guys really know how to work a crowd. :wink:


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



synergy543 @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> (3 mics are better than....sorry)



Oooh, how clever!


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## TheUnfinished (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



synergy543 @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> And maybe 2-Steps from Hell to do you promo trailer?


Good luck with that!


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



hazza @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> If you could add the divisi functionality of VSL Dimension Brass then I'm sold. I want to be able to have 3 trumpets blazing in unison, then switch to triads with one trumpet on each note.
> 
> I must admit that while CineBrass sounds awesome, the patch listing made me think I'd better start filling the piggy bank for HWB... but maybe not now?




Another vote for divisi - but I'd rather see it similar to LASS' (auto arranger). For the AA in LASS has re-defined my writing more than anything - given ridiculous schedules we must maintain. With AA - it simple doesn't 'sound' like we took a 'programming shortcut'.

I also think that AA was raised the bar with how many players play each 'voice' in our sampled orchestras. In years past we would 'put up' with the wall of sound (obtained by too many total players playing). But not now - at least for strings.

With the 'tone' that you have achieved with CB - I can well imagine how balanced (with ample divisi detail) this could be.

Wonderful announcement btw.


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 9, 2011)

Great news, this seemed like the obvious next step for this library. It's great to see the openness to user feedback, and splitting up the sessions allows learning from mistakes and making corrections and improvements where necessary.

Some great suggestions already, and I think it's very helpful to point out specific musical examples (and even recordings) of things that generally aren't available in sample libraries that would be good to have.

From the early responses, obvious ones look like double/triple tonguing, making sure all instruments go all the way up to the loudest possible dynamic, and fast slurs (although that last one may be possible with programming updates to CB1).



Daniel James @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> 1. Legatos in the articulations patch (sustain pedal)



This is something I'd love to see in every library and I'm surprised at how rarely it is done. It's really common to have phrases that alternate between slurs and short notes yet the two articulations are rarely available in the same patch (keyswitch or whatever). Switching sus over with the other lengths (mod wheel, keyswitch, whatever) and using sustain pedal for legato would make sense, although I'd probably be fine with an option to just switch over from sus to legato instead of needing both in the same patch. And it's crucial for the legato and articulations to be able to match up (whether it's a combined switchable patch or external switching with Kontakt banks).

Personally I'd much rather see a second solo instrument than recordings of pairs, I find it much more flexible since it's possible to do either split parts or two in unison, including switching easily between the two. It's the same amount of work to do Tpt 2 as 2 Tpt but it gives more "divisi" type options, whether it's done manually or by a smart patch that does auto splitting. Full on divisi recordings going up to 3/4/3 would be fantastic but two of each plus the big unison section would be a big step in the right direction.

Very exciting announcement, it definitely has me thinking about the articulation wishlist.


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## bryla (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Rob Elliott @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> Another vote for divisi -


btw: divisi is only a term for strings


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## adg21 (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



whinecellar @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> As posted early in the other thread, I am willing to pay (dearly!) for a library that lets me do this kind of thing:
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/whinecellarstudio ... hort-brass
> 
> PLEASE!!!



Yes and also from the last thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUoCceIG ... age#t=300s


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## NYC Composer (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Joe S @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> Have I lost my mind or didn't you just release Cinebrass today. Guys this looks really bad when you should be talking about the library you unleashed today for 400 bucks. Not diverting our attention to some future fixer upgrade. It's getting a bit smelly around here.



Is it possible you can find a less obnoxious way to express yourself, in general? Your posts tend to seem unnecessarily aggressive and hostile. I have no problem with your opinions, just the way you express them. Thank you.


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## tabulius (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

1) FFF dynamic layer
2) Legatos option in articulations patch (sustain)
3) Ultra short staccatos for rapid playing
4) 2 player patches
5) "Auto divisi"


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## Ed (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



adg21 @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> whinecellar @ Thu Jun 09 said:
> 
> 
> > As posted early in the other thread, I am willing to pay (dearly!) for a library that lets me do this kind of thing:
> ...



Interesting.. That is indeed quite difficult, just tried the CS Trumpets on the Raiders clip above and at those speeds with CS Brass will sound quite robotic . At the super upper range that phrase is in they also seem to loose a lot of the round robin slop so it works much better at the lower range, but still. I think double tounging like this can't really be faked well with stacs, in a few instances but in this case just doesn't work.


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## Ed (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



tabulius @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> 1) FFF dynamic layer



And PP layer!



> 2) Legatos option in articulations patch (sustain)"



And make it the right dynamics to fit with the articulations dynamics, also it needs to be FAST legato transitions, it can't be laggy. Light and effortless.!!!! Good luck with that :D


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## Audun Jemtland (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

User controlled vibrato somehow


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## Ed (Jun 9, 2011)

-1 on controllable vibrato for me.. its a great feature, its just there's more I'd rather have, dunno about others..


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## germancomponist (Jun 9, 2011)

To control the note length only via holding the key on my keyboard would be great... .


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## Audun Jemtland (Jun 9, 2011)

Ed @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> -1 on controllable vibrato for me.. its a great feature its just there's more I'd rather have dunno about others..


Agree :lol: But if they've got some ingenious way (and time) to do it than by all means,put the icing on the cake.


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 10, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

OK Mikes - the more I play with this (using it today on a cue) - the more I think we now have the 'soaring' brass lines covered in spades. Really solid here (not with standing the release issues discussed). The room and tone is just gorgeous and I love to have real time control over the M7 - very powerful.


I have to say that I am not much of a fan of the brass choral stuff (the the esemble patches) as there are just too many players sounding on the simplest 3 note chords. I have found that the solo horn and trumpet get me a lot of the way there but it can be like using ONE vocalist to sing all the back up harmonies - hopefully you know what I mean.

We can BLAME that darn Andrew (LASS) for his setting the divisi standard for samples. It's funny - 3 years ago I put up with the 'wall of sound' but not today.

So for me - it would be nirvana to have THIS tone and sound but with many more 'solo' instruments that would enable me (or you with a divisi script) to build brass choirs properly.

I should make it clear that for what I got for a mere $400 - I feel NO buyers remorse. Exceptional value but the additional solo instruments / divisi would freaking knock it out of the park for me. Just my $.02 and hopes for PRO CB.

Thanks again to you guys, greg and all the talent that helped you put together what should be record success.


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## Ed (Jun 10, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Rob Elliott @ Fri Jun 10 said:


> So for me - it would be nirvana to have THIS tone and sound but with many more 'solo' instruments that would enable me (or you with a divisi script) to build brass choirs properly.



I agree with this, except I would rather get ONE perfect solo horn/bone/trumpet than 3 horns/bones/trumpets that don't work properly. As I think I said in the other thread legato seems so difficult to get just right, but you won't know for sure if its worked till you get back and edit it all together and program it. They can always go and record again to give you more soloists and then they can improve their technique even more. If you have limited time, you really have to consider what is the best use of that time.


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## Justus (Jun 10, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Amen.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 10, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

I saw the "-1 for controlled vibrato", so I needed to chime in 8) 

I think what the current solo trumpet lacks is... vibrato. It's pretty rare that you play a solo trumpet line at p/mp without any vibrato. There is a little bit in there now, but not enough to make "virtuos" lines. I think at least you should record another solo trumpet now that you will do it anyway, and just record one or two extra layers, p and mp with vibrato.

Another thing I would suggest is to do an ff layer with the trumpet ensemble with vibrato. This can really spice things up and sound really cool in certain situations.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 10, 2011)

+1000 for user controlled vib.


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## guayalex (Jun 10, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



whinecellar @ Wed Jun 08 said:


> As posted early in the other thread, I am willing to pay (dearly!) for a library that lets me do this kind of thing:
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/whinecellarstudio ... hort-brass
> 
> PLEASE!!!



+1 super short staccati
and AUTO DIVISI! =o


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## sevaels (Jun 10, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

+1 on most of what Simon has said.


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 11, 2011)

OK, I've mentioned this one in passing, but I think it needs a bigger SHOUT and some fleshing out the idea.

I think a huge selling point for PRO would be to introduce the C.I.T.E engine used in Hollywoodwinds. This is a terrific piece of programming, the range you can get in HWW based on only two source tempos (I believe) is excellent - there's a few mushy moments around 110, but compared to Kontakt's own timestretching it's stunning. My guess is that it works more like RMX / SAGE than full time stretching.

Anyway, the most important use for this could be double / triple tonging. I know we're all moving away from keyswitches generally (and hooray for that), but in this case I think it would be the simplest solution - say CO for double, C1 for triple tonging, tempo locked, I'd prefer a non-latching keyswitch that works as long as you hold the key. Indeed, you could extend it a little, so say you want a single staccato note on C4, then a rest, then some fast repetitions in rhythmic bursts also on C4 (fairly classic stuff), as long as you keep the C4 down, then each time you press the C0/C1 keyswtich it triggers the repetition (with a clean final note each time of course). I think that would be really easy and intuitive to play, and keeping with the KISS ideology. I don't think any library currently out or planned can do it that simply, it would be a terrific and incredibly useful USP.

Then of course it occurred to me that if you're doing that, you could add some more ornaments / runs - personally I don't think you'd need the full range of scales etc cos brass writing is so different, but maybe some simple figures might be handy. Far less important to me that though than the fast repetitions.

As for the auto divisi debate - yes, it would be great, but I think I'm a little more with Ed here. In a world of limited resources, I'd prefer to have a few more single solo instruments at multiple velocities over auto-divisi. If there is time and space for both, great, just my own priorities.


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## windshore (Jun 11, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Picking up on Rob's post - The solo instruments are VERY limited and a future version should include greater depth from the current solo instruments as well as solo instruments not yet present in the lib. I imagine we won't get full divisi, but I'd be pleased to have one good solo instrument from all the sections.

(The low brass sounds very nice but I really would like tuba separate. - especially!)

In the meanwhile we're all hoping that improvements to the programming will significantly improve the articulation issues already mentioned for Cinebrass 1.


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 12, 2011)

Just curious - is my repetition C.I.T.E idea redundant? Are others finding the short artics perfectly good for fast repetitions as they are? No comments from anyone and I'm genuinely excited by the prospect, could really make a difference to certain kinds of brass writing I think.


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## KMuzzey (Jun 12, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> Just curious - is my repetition C.I.T.E idea redundant? Are others finding the short artics perfectly good for fast repetitions as they are? No comments from anyone and I'm genuinely excited by the prospect, could really make a difference to certain kinds of brass writing I think.



I'd love the brass equivalent of LASS' A.R.T. feature, where you could just hold down the sus pedal and have it fire off fast 1/8 and 1/16 horns in a fast, light staccato. Fingers crossed!

Kerry


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## sbkp (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

my wishlist (so far):

more dynamics for all instruments
articulations for solo instruments
2 solo trombones + solo bass trombone
solo tuba
double+triple tonguing
additional solo horn
additional solo trumpet


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



sbkp @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> my wishlist (so far):
> 
> more dynamics for all instruments
> articulations for solo instruments
> ...




+1 on this wish list


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## adg21 (Jun 12, 2011)

germancomponist @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> To control the note length only via holding the key on my keyboard would be great... .


Huh? Is this sarcastic?


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## groove (Jun 13, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

In addition to : 
Divisi (or a 2) for TP-TB and Horns
Vibrato control with cc
Additional solo

I'd suggest :
Legato (or even glissando) for Trombonnes
Time sync crescendo for the TP FX
FF Rip for Horns FX (the ones we have now will have trouble getting through the mix)


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 13, 2011)

Definitely solo versions of all instruments. Trombone with slides would be cool although it's a can of worms trying to get slurs - they just aren't consistent across the instrument due to the nature of the slide. If it were me I'd consider doing an instrument based on the slide and another for really smooth lyrical legato/slur with a valved instrument. Maybe valve bone, but I'd probably be more inclined to see if I could find a fantastic euphonium player just for a solo legato instrument.



noiseboyuk @ Sat Jun 11 said:


> OK, I've mentioned this one in passing, but I think it needs a bigger SHOUT and some fleshing out the idea.
> 
> I think a huge selling point for PRO would be to introduce the C.I.T.E engine used in Hollywoodwinds. This is a terrific piece of programming, the range you can get in HWW based on only two source tempos (I believe) is excellent - there's a few mushy moments around 110, but compared to Kontakt's own timestretching it's stunning. My guess is that it works more like RMX / SAGE than full time stretching.
> 
> Anyway, the most important use for this could be double / triple tonging. I know we're all moving away from keyswitches generally (and hooray for that), but in this case I think it would be the simplest solution - say CO for double, C1 for triple tonging, tempo locked, I'd prefer a non-latching keyswitch that works as long as you hold the key. Indeed, you could extend it a little, so say you want a single staccato note on C4, then a rest, then some fast repetitions in rhythmic bursts also on C4 (fairly classic stuff), as long as you keep the C4 down, then each time you press the C0/C1 keyswtich it triggers the repetition (with a clean final note each time of course). I think that would be really easy and intuitive to play, and keeping with the KISS ideology. I don't think any library currently out or planned can do it that simply, it would be a terrific and incredibly useful USP.



Great post. Double/triple tonguing is a special case that I'd compare to things like runs or trills. Maybe it's possible to get recording/scripting that can handle it, but if that's not possible your proposal would be a great solution. I believe vienna does something similar with their repetition although they do the timestretching by prerendering the samples in the new tempo instead of real time (HB has it listed, it will be interesting to see their take on it). However it's done will be tricky since double/triple tonguing is really something that needs to be taken from a performance instead of just putting together individual notes.


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## Ed (Jun 13, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> Just curious - is my repetition C.I.T.E idea redundant? Are others finding the short artics perfectly good for fast repetitions as they are? No comments from anyone and I'm genuinely excited by the prospect, could really make a difference to certain kinds of brass writing I think.



I don't have HWW so don't know how good it is or isn't!


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## DeOlivier (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

First of all, congratulations on this release! I had the pleasure to record with the Hollywood Studio Symphony last summer (I attended the ASCAP scoring workshop), and I think you have really captured their powerful brass sound!

My suggestions for the PRO addon:

- longer marcatos (with release samples/user controllable length). I use the 3sec horn marcatos from EWQLSO all the time and I'd love to have something similar in this library.
- More dynamic layers for marcatos
- legato for trombones
- short staccati/double tonguing
- complete solo instruments
- complete articulations a2
- short horn rips
- crescendi


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 14, 2011)

Ed @ Mon Jun 13 said:


> don't have HWW so don't know how good it is or isn't!



It's awesome! I think this is the way to go with double / triple tonging, I'm sure it would be more realistic than repeated staccatissimos or whatever.

A few people now have asked for crescendos. Now, to me this seems against the spirit of library - the morphing between levels is so smooth, why on earth limit to pre-recorded lengths? As one of the Mikes said, that would be a step backwards. I've asked a few times for someone to post an example of the sus patch with a short crescendo but no takers so far... do people feel it isn't delivering on short duration swells?


----------



## DeOlivier (Jun 14, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Tue Jun 14 said:


> Ed @ Mon Jun 13 said:
> 
> 
> > A few people now have asked for crescendos. Now, to me this seems against the spirit of library - the morphing between levels is so smooth, why on earth limit to pre-recorded lengths? As one of the Mikes said, that would be a step backwards. I've asked a few times for someone to post an example of the sus patch with a short crescendo but no takers so far... do people feel it isn't delivering on short duration swells?



Here is a quick comparison of EWQLSO prerecorded crescendos and programmed crescendos with CineBrass:

http://www.oliverwallner.com/exchange/cresc.mp3

The first crescendo is always the prerecorded one from EWQLSO, followed by CB.

You're right of course, the crossfades are very smooth in CB, better than in any other library (except a small glitch in the louder range of the horns). But I still prefer the prerecorded crescendos - I still miss the additional "bite" at the end in my programmed versions.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 14, 2011)

Thanks for doing that Oliver! I know what you mean about the bite at the end, but it's pretty close - maybe a bit more close mic / EQ would make it more present for these high impact crescendos?

I guess in a perfect world it would be nice to have some, but I'm always really frustrated with pre-recorded... the lengths are never right, and I'm not convinced you wouldn't get artefacts with regular timestretching. And of course the current system is far easier to use in practice for the majority of applications.


----------



## Mike Connelly (Jun 14, 2011)

DeOlivier @ Tue Jun 14 said:


> Here is a quick comparison of EWQLSO prerecorded crescendos and programmed crescendos with CineBrass:
> 
> http://www.oliverwallner.com/exchange/cresc.mp3



Great example, thanks for posting it. Personally I think the step to improve it is not to do prerecorded crescendos but simply to record an additional layer of fff (ffff?) to add to the top end. The morphed layers sound completely usable, I'd hate to take the step backward to ever having to use canned lengths again.

How do the same things sound with the CB solo trumpet? Is the morphing just as seamless?

And I wonder if the CB morphing techniques would work on trills or things like flutter tonguing. Those would be great articulations to have, but especially so if they can be done with full dynamic control.


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 14, 2011)

Yeah, great idea Mike and feels like the right evolution for this lib - fffffff, trills, mutes, flutters all with those dynamics.... bring it on!


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## Mahlon (Jun 14, 2011)

DeOlivier @ Tue Jun 14 said:


> Here is a quick comparison of EWQLSO prerecorded crescendos and programmed crescendos with CineBrass:
> 
> http://www.oliverwallner.com/exchange/cresc.mp3
> 
> ...



Is is possible to put the bite in the programmed crescendo by riding CC1 to _near_ the top of the fff, and then bumping CC1 ever so slightly/quickly at the end?

Mahlon


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## Cinesamples (Jun 14, 2011)

Shall we grab some crescendos? 
We could but that kind of opens up a can of worms because we will have to grab crescendos of several lengths, and have them lock to sequence tempo.
We'd hate to just grab just one tempo, or even just two, because we would rather spend that time on something more awesome, like solo artics, mutes, flutters, trills etc...
But maybe we should just at least grab something minimal?

This next session we have booked twice the amount of time as CineBrass 1, so we do have time, but of course want to set priorities.

I think what we will do is take all the feature request here, and on facebook and in emails, and sort them all by priority, and we can discuss.

The sessions always start with the must-haves, and we grab the secondary stuff towards the end. It's a tricky thing this samplin' thing...


----------



## ozmorphasis (Jun 14, 2011)

CineSamples @ Tue Jun 14 said:


> Shall we grab some crescendos?
> We could but that kind of opens up a can of worms because we will have to grab crescendos of several lengths, and have them lock to sequence tempo.
> We'd hate to just grab just one tempo, or even just two, because we would rather spend that time on something more awesome, like solo artics, mutes, flutters, trills etc...
> But maybe we should just at least grab something minimal?
> ...



In any case, what a wonderfully open and receptive attitude you guys have toward your user base while a product is under development.


----------



## Casey Edwards (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

I wouldn't worry about crescendo's. I think that a legato+art patch would be able to simulate a good crescendo with the modwheel.


----------



## Mike Connelly (Jun 14, 2011)

I'd rather add a top volume layer to the existing dynamic patches than have canned crescendos.


----------



## sbkp (Jun 14, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Tue Jun 14 said:


> I'd rather add a top volume layer to the existing dynamic patches than have canned crescendos.



+153


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## Pochflyboy (Jun 14, 2011)

CineSamples @ Tue Jun 14 said:


> Shall we grab some crescendos?



if they were tempo synced like HWW runs thy mite make it into my template. I know I would like to see expanded dynamics on the mod wheel. and of course the artics as mentioned. You guys really are great. Its good to see such a motivated company working to find solutions for everyone.

_JP


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## Ed (Jun 14, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Tue Jun 14 said:


> I'd rather add a top volume layer to the existing dynamic patches than have canned crescendos.



Especially as you would think it would take the same time to record!


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 14, 2011)

CineSamples @ Tue Jun 14 said:


> Shall we grab some crescendos?
> We could but that kind of opens up a can of worms because we will have to grab crescendos of several lengths, and have them lock to sequence tempo.
> We'd hate to just grab just one tempo, or even just two, because we would rather spend that time on something more awesome, like solo artics, mutes, flutters, trills etc...
> But maybe we should just at least grab something minimal?
> ...



A huge part of the appeal of CineBrass for me is the simplicity of operation. The dream is to load up one or two patches and play. If you start having many crescendo patches... where do you stop? You end up with a more conventional library that is slower to use imho.

Also I've never heard decent timestretching on this kind of material in Kontakt. C.I.T.E is awesome but - correct me if I'm wrong - it is rhythmically based, hence my suggestion to use it on double/triple tonguing tempo-locked material. I don't think timestretched crescendos would sound good....

I still haven't got CineBrass, but the suggestion of extra fff layers sounds like a great one if it is possible. If we could have solo, divisi, mutes, flutters, trills, stops all using the same paradigm as currently, plus C.I.T.E tonguing... boy that sounds like more than 2 days recording! I'd value every one of those above fixed or timestretched crescendos. and it would be a killer, versatile and highly playable library.


----------



## tabulius (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Ed @ Thu Jun 09 said:


> tabulius @ Thu Jun 09 said:
> 
> 
> > 1) FFF dynamic layer
> ...



Agree. A patch with basic articulations with faster legato would be ideal for agile performances and melodies. There might be an option to have both slower and faster legato that is triggered by velocity (Samplemodeling approach).

Then throw couple of keyswitches with some commonly used brass effects and you have an ultimate master patch! _-)


----------



## DeOlivier (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

+1 for the extra FFF layer.


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## mikebarry (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

TJ

Fortunately (for us) that is mostly untrue. We all know that a legato interval sample lasts a short amount of time, just enough for the next sustain to crossfade in. Greg purposely scripted the previous note to ring in the hall as it normally would, it's just a matter of dialing that down. More to the point we simply need to make a few scripting changes to make a harder legato, including decreasing the volume with a harder velocity - we've already figured it out. Right now greg is moving into a new apartment so we have to wait a little for him to get set up before we continue.

And sony isn't an incredibly reverberant room - it actually has a pretty short tail for something as many square feet as it is. 

And we both know Sony was out of the picture for you guys because they are a union signatory. And since we did the first union sampling ever in the AFM history, and you recorded before us, we know you weren't union and therefore needed to record a dark date on private property.


----------



## Justus (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Actually I would love to see trumpet chords (sustains and stac) HWW style or a two trumpet stac/sustain patch.
Who is with me?


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Justus, sorry but I think recording chords would be a total waste of resources.


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## Justus (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Simon Ravn @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> Justus, sorry but I think recording chords would be a total waste of resources.



Sure! Just dreaming...


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## whinecellar (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Back to the double/triple tongue & super-fast stuff, I know that's incredibly important to a lot of us, but I also know how hard it might be to pull that off. So, not knowing the capabilities of Kontakt's scripting engine, I'm just throwing this at the wall:

What about recording a handful of them at various tempos then having a script grab the samples closest to your host tempo and stretching/squeezing as necessary? Is that even practical?

Heck, I want it so bad I'd pay for a library (or sub-set of CB/HWB) dedicated to this sort of thing. If it doesn't happen soon, maybe I'll just take it upon myself - we have some world-class brass players here in Nashvegas


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi Jim - that's pretty much what I'm suggesting, and what the C.I.T.E engine does!


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## whinecellar (Jun 15, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> Hi Jim - that's pretty much what I'm suggesting, and what the C.I.T.E engine does!



Gotcha. Sorry Guy - I haven't been able to follow every post on this thread. Good stuff... let's keep our fingers crossed!


----------



## germancomponist (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Thomas_J @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> ... This was another reason why we chose the EW stage for Hollywood Brass - it doesn't have a crazy long decay, making it possible to create legato patches that are responsive, play quickly and preserve the sense of space even at faster tempos. ...)



I think this is the reason why Samplemodeling recorded their libs in no discernible space...... .


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## whinecellar (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Thomas_J @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> Whinecellar, we already have this in Hollywood Brass (and they sync to tempo or you can play it yourself using the double tongue staccatossimo samples. In fact almost everything mentioned (except solo bass bone) in this thread is already in HB



Thanks TJ. I thought I read something along those lines in the HWB info - I've just been so slammed I haven't had time to follow these threads and watch the developments. To say I'm anticipating your demos is an understatement - be sure to give us some of these really fast articulations when you do 

Good times!


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## Ed (Jun 15, 2011)

*ANOTHER REQUEST:
*
A Sustain patch with the same BITE of the ATTACK of the marcato patches! Currently I'll have to layer a marc underneath, so would be nice to not have to.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

I don't think neither EastWest nor Cinesamples need to worry about their sales figures. I reckon most people who are fairly serious about their setups and write for symphonic orchestra will buy both, considering how reasonable the price is on both products. Actually, with the Pro upgrade coming from Cinesamples, they could end up having the most expensive offering, although with much less material. 

The question is of course how much of the material in HB you really end up using and how you weigh that against a lean and smooth running setup. Most people are not going to use all 5 mic sets of EW, unless they are willing to have at least one PC allocated just for that - and the lower footprint and really quick loading of CS' patches is very convenient. But I think that sometimes you will prefer EW's more thorough offering. I am sure there will be quite a lot of patches and techniques in HB that won't show up, even in CB Pro.

It all depends, but I think most people would like to mix and match whatever they feel like from both products. And oh, we know that the sound is really good in CB - we haven't heard HB but I can't imagine it being half bad.


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## Ed (Jun 15, 2011)

I for one will not buy the full version of HB, if it has all the arts but only one mic Gold will be fine... if I use it way more than I think I can always pay to upgrade later.

I'd rather support CB and mainly use that and have HB Gold to fill in any gaps, because I'm sure it won't ever be as smooth running as Kontakt is.


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## Angel (Jun 15, 2011)

Ed @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> A Sustain patch with the same BITE of the ATTACK of the marcato patches!



Thought the same today when doing a fanfaresque piece. So count me in!


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## Cinesamples (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Thomas_J @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> Mike, I'm excited to hear you found a way around the ringout issue. You needed that to compete with the basics of HB  As for your invitation to discuss industry politics I think I will pass but I'm glad you got to do it in the venue of your choice. I envy one thing about you guys, and that's how you managed to get permission to quote John Williams' work in your demo material! It's also funny to note that all the music you are quoting was recorded by the Hollywood Brass engineer Shawn Murphy  hey, all in the good spirit of healthy competition



TJ,

I envy one thing about you guys, and that's how you managed to convince yourselves that TALKING about HWB is the best way to educate us all about your library.
Having said that, we all look forward to the TJB demos of HWB, which I am sure will blow our minds. After all, TJ can make General MIDI sound great.  I am sure it will be a fair demo. 

For the rest of us mere mortals, there's a library option called CineBrass that is easy to use, sounds great, with multi mics, and gets the job done. Perhaps HWB is capable of this? We'll just all have to wait I suppose...

And hey, this is the CineBrass forum, go market and "TALK" about HWB in another thread. Along with the rest of the EastWest employees posting with fake avatars. 

Mike P
And yes, all in the spirit of healthy competition


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## markblasco (Jun 15, 2011)

Thomas_J, while I'm sure that you know a lot about sampling brass (as well as other instruments), and you have a lot of insight that we would like to hear, your posts here are really coming across as trying to badmouth Cinebrass. I would appreciate it if you would limit your comments here to things which advance the discussion of the topic, and aren't about your product. Doing otherwise just makes you and your company look bad.


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## dcoscina (Jun 15, 2011)

I find all this "friendly rivalry" by hijacking CineBrass' threads is getting pretty smelly. Personally, I like that Mike P shows us in real time with familiar phrases or themes how his library sounds. That to me allows me to A/B it with the real thing since I'm very familiar with those Williams pieces. An awesome Thomas J original is of course very impressive but doesn't help me assess the merits of the library in relation to what I know is real.

I'm continually floored by the sound of CineSamples' CineBrass. I'm not a big shot Hollywood composer nor an awesome demo composer, but I've been composing for 3 decades and I know what I like. I like CineBrass.


----------



## windshore (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

You know guys,
There's this theory that if you talk like a baby, you will elicit a response as if from a baby.

That's all I'm sayin'


----------



## NYC Composer (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Good lord.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

I mean, what's next, industrial espionage? Or has it already happened and I'm just behind the curve?


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## dcoscina (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



windshore @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> You know guys,
> There's this theory that if you talk like a baby, you will elicit a response as if from a baby.
> 
> That's all I'm sayin'



There's another theory that if you hide behind some bullshit pseudonym and post stuff like this, you're a wussy. 

...just sayin'


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## Pochflyboy (Jun 15, 2011)

This is THE official CineBrass Pro thread. I am pretty sure it is fair of the Mikes to ask for the topic to remain about their upcoming product and its development.... Just saying. 

Plenty of room for some health competition discussion elsewhere.


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## dedersen (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Sigh. This is really a new low, isn't it? It's gonna be difficult not to let stuff like this affect my purchase decisions, however ridiculous that may be. On the other hand, the Mikes must be thrilled, they really couldn't ask for better PR people than the EW gang.


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## José Herring (Jun 16, 2011)

Well the fact that CB went union and finally gave proper respect and due royalties to the musicians for the recordings to me speaks volumes about the integrity of Cinesamples as a company. I hope it changes sampling forever and that the union finally follows up on these sessions and realize what they truly are, sound recording sessions.


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 16, 2011)

I don't know why but I've just remembered an article in Premiere magazine about 10 years ago about an upcoming blockbuster. They interviewed the giants, Industrial Light and Magic about their central CG character, and asked if they weren't a bit nervous about how it would be received after WETA's amazing Gollum, so beloved by the public? The man from the (awesome) ILM said that "those little guys from NZ did some pretty neat stuff, but wait til you see what we've got - 100x bigger and better, and it takes it all to the next level".

The movie was Hulk.


----------



## Hicks (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

As a lot of people here I don't buy anymore EW products due to the rude speeches coming from Nick Phoenix and Doug Rogers.

I wanted to wait for HWB because I was thinking that Thomas J was less like the two other guys.
But Unfortunately, it seems that now he begins to try to bite CB's men with those attacks.
I think more time should be spent to fix Play than to to try to backstab the competition.


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## rpaillot (Jun 16, 2011)

josejherring @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Well the fact that CB went union and finally gave proper respect and due royalties to the musicians for the recordings to me speaks volumes about the integrity of Cinesamples as a company. I hope it changes sampling forever and that the union finally follows up on these sessions and realize what they truly are, sound recording sessions.



Well , speaking about that, how much do you think guys the players are getting with cinebrass sales?

Lets say cinebrass has sold 2000 copies ( which I think is reasonable ) . 

2000 * 400 = 800000 dollars. 
The dev are probably getting at least 50 % of the benefit . 400 000 dollars.

3 trumpets, 6 horns, 4 trombones, 1 tuba, 1 cimbasso = 15 players.

400 000 / 15 = 26 000 dollars per players as sales royalties, Not bad


----------



## Hannes_F (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Hmm ... Romain, did you consider costs for studio, marketing and distribution?

I think a bird sang me a number of 2 % forwarded to the players but I might be totally off. That would then be roughly 1000 USD per player on royalties according to your calculations.

I am just posting this in order to point out that numbers could vary vastly depending on the circumstances, so ... it is highly speculative and probably moot. However I am not sure anybody gets very rich on it.


----------



## Stevie (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

@Cinesamples
The reaction from EW just clearly shows that you released a great product.







P.S: woah, 1337 posts, geeky!!!


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



dcoscina @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> windshore @ Wed Jun 15 said:
> 
> 
> > You know guys,
> ...




Why don't you check out Windshore's profile and click on the www

you would be fortunate to work with this guy.

BTW his post was not a response to your post.


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## EwigWanderer (Jun 16, 2011)

rpaillot @ 6.16.2011 said:


> josejherring @ Thu Jun 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Well the fact that CB went union and finally gave proper respect and due royalties to the musicians for the recordings to me speaks volumes about the integrity of Cinesamples as a company. I hope it changes sampling forever and that the union finally follows up on these sessions and realize what they truly are, sound recording sessions.
> ...



I think the royalties aren't so importat for the players. Respect from Cinesamples. Meaning that Cinesamples publicly supports all the players...and not just shaking their hands afterwards. 

By doing this we will have great libraries in the future played by the best musicians, who know how to play for moviescore..


----------



## JT (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

The fact that Cinesamples used union musicians speaks volumes to me. I've been a union member for almost 40 years, they've been good to me and now am able to get a nice pension check each month. When it comes to future purchasing decisions, all other factors being equal, I'll go with a product that employed union musicians.


----------



## booboo (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Craig Sharmat @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> dcoscina @ Wed Jun 15 said:
> 
> 
> > windshore @ Wed Jun 15 said:
> ...



+1
I've worked with Windshore and he's an amazing professional and a very nice guy.
Slinging that stuff in his direction isn't doing yourself any good.


----------



## dcoscina (Jun 16, 2011)

I obviously misunderstood his post but you guys seem to predicate my need to apologize emphatically to this person out of some desire to have the opportunity to work with him or something when I couldn't care less. Im not in nor do I ever wish to be in the LA club.

But his resume does look impressive nonetheless.


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

the point is not that you need to work with him, it was he isn't hiding you can see his website from the profile.


----------



## José Herring (Jun 16, 2011)

dcoscina @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Im not in nor do I ever wish to be in the LA club.




There's a club? Oh! Where do I sign up?


----------



## germancomponist (Jun 16, 2011)

josejherring @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> dcoscina @ Thu Jun 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Im not in nor do I ever wish to be in the LA club.
> ...



http://www.losangeles.com/nightlife/nightclubs.html
o-[][]-o


----------



## booboo (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

I don't know if this has been answered here yet, but I wanted to ask.

Does CineSamples plan on releasing updates to fix some of the problems in Cinebrass, or is everything now focused on the Pro exanpsion? (it's not a loaded question, I'd just like to know).


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## Cinesamples (Jun 16, 2011)

Booboo,
Yes.


----------



## Casey Edwards (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

I also have a question that has gone unanswered which is:

Can you assign a CC# to turn on/off the mono/poly mode? I couldn't find any info on it, and if this isn't yet available it would be really handy to have!


----------



## gregjazz (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Casey Edwards @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Can you assign a CC# to turn on/off the mono/poly mode? I couldn't find any info on it, and if this isn't yet available it would be really handy to have!


Unfortunately Kontakt doesn't let you automate dropdown menu controls. Maybe I can turn it into some sort of button instead, which would let you automate it.


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



gregjazz @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Casey Edwards @ Thu Jun 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Can you assign a CC# to turn on/off the mono/poly mode? I couldn't find any info on it, and if this isn't yet available it would be really handy to have!
> ...




That would be cool Greg. Right now I have two midi tracks (mono/poly) in my template but half the tracks is always good. Great suggestion Casey.


----------



## Casey Edwards (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



gregjazz @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Casey Edwards @ Thu Jun 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Can you assign a CC# to turn on/off the mono/poly mode? I couldn't find any info on it, and if this isn't yet available it would be really handy to have!
> ...



If it's easy enough to achieve that would be really nice. The legato scripts behave so differently that it's either that or I'll have to load 2 of the same patch to get poly and mono modes...and well that just seems silly! Thanks for chiming in!


----------



## dcoscina (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Craig Sharmat @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> the point is not that you need to work with him, it was he isn't hiding you can see his website from the profile.



Yes, good point indeed.


----------



## mikebarry (Jun 16, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



Casey Edwards @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> I also have a question that has gone unanswered which is:
> 
> Can you assign a CC# to turn on/off the mono/poly mode? I couldn't find any info on it, and if this isn't yet available it would be really handy to have!



No - but I do ! That was something that was meant to get into the final version but we just missed it by a few days by our native instruments deadline.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 17, 2011)

Just on a point of interest - how does it work with NI and updates? Do you need to go through them with a 3-6 week wait for every revision?


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jun 17, 2011)

Noiseboyuk, I am pretty sure that as long the sample content hasn't changed, you can send out the updates without going through NI. As far as I know it is the samples that are "serialized", not the patches.


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 17, 2011)

Simon Ravn @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> Noiseboyuk, I am pretty sure that as long the sample content hasn't changed, you can send out the updates without going through NI. As far as I know it is the samples that are "serialized", not the patches.



Ah, thought that might be the case. So tuning / scripting stuff is easy enough to update, but if you need to add / fix the sample pool itself, that might take some time?


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## Cinesamples (Jun 17, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Okay,

So, we made a tally of all the feature requests thus far and sorted them by the amount of times they were mentioned. This was culled from Vi-Control.net, our Facebook page, our CS Forum, and from emails we received.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5828471/CB_Pro_Requests_6-17-11.pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5828471/CB_Pro_ ... -17-11.pdf)

This is good reference for us, but we're still going to do some interesting things that will make CineBrass PRO special.

There's a great quote by Henry Ford when asked about market research, his response was "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

Don't worry, we will include "faster horses" anyway, but we do have some special plans not mentioned at all. 

Stay tuned...


----------



## Cinesamples (Jun 17, 2011)

FYI, our references to other library technologies in this list are merely to communicate concepts. No plans on ripping other sampling techniques. Just copying your requests verbatim.


----------



## Mahlon (Jun 17, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



CineSamples @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> Okay,
> 
> So, we made a tally of all the feature requests thus far and sorted them by the amount of times they were mentioned. This was culled from Vi-Control.net, our Facebook page, our CS Forum, and from emails we received.
> 
> ...



Very Cool.  

Mahlon


----------



## rgames (Jun 17, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



CineSamples @ Sat Jun 18 said:


> So, we made a tally of all the feature requests thus far and sorted them by the amount of times they were mentioned...



Great! Only comment is that it sure seems like the legato speed issue should be higher on the priority list...!

Having worked with the library for a few days, I *love* the sound but the slow legato transitions really make it tough to do lines with even moderate motion. Seems like that's just a scripting issue, so maybe a patch before the Pro release? 

rgames


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jun 17, 2011)

Yup, looks like a good list. Just on a point of clarity, I'd suggested a C.I.T.E solution for double / triple tonguing, but I only see A.R.T mentioned, which is a totally different approach to how I saw it - I'd prefer real timestretched mini performances for best realism over a sequencer that triggers a pattern based on individual samples (though that might be pretty good idea too).

Richard, I may be wrong, but I think the fast legato thing is sort of a unique case cos the Mikes said Greg is cooking up a new scripted solution for the current library. So I guess many people have thought "oh that's in hand" rather than having it as a feature request. ditto a cc controllable mono / poly mode.


----------



## Casey Edwards (Jun 17, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

I want it to be noted (as if anyone cares) that I will be :( if we don't have Trumpet and Horn Trills.


----------



## spectrum (Jun 18, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



mikebarry @ Wed Jun 15 said:


> And since we did the first union sampling ever in the AFM history....


That's super great that you got the Union on board with a big project like this. Glad to hear that they are working with you guys.

Just for the record though, I've produced numerous AFM Local 47 full union sampling sessions for Roland since the mid 1980's, so that's not a new phenomenon at all. I've booked them both as regular session dates and also under the old "sampling scale" that was established in the early 90's.

Congrats on your outstanding work!

Cheers,

spectrum


----------



## NYC Composer (Jun 18, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



spectrum @ Sat Jun 18 said:


> mikebarry @ Wed Jun 15 said:
> 
> 
> > And since we did the first union sampling ever in the AFM history....
> ...



Besides your outstanding work, I'm sure that's why The Roland Orchestral Library CD's ( the two pack! :wink: ) sounded so gosh darn good. I like to take every chance I can to mention it because it literally changed my composing life. Cheers.


----------



## mikebarry (Jun 18, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



spectrum @ Sat Jun 18 said:


> mikebarry @ Wed Jun 15 said:
> 
> 
> > And since we did the first union sampling ever in the AFM history....
> ...



You know thats what I thought!! And that was what I was telling people until I spoke to the contractor last week and he said it was the first ever. I was like are you sure? He was like yeh. So I was like - woah. I knew there was some talk of Roland in there when we spoke with the AFM. Well hats off to Spectrum - we all know he sits on the iron throne anyway


----------



## spectrum (Jun 18, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*



mikebarry @ Sat Jun 18 said:


> You know thats what I thought!! And that was what I was telling people until I spoke to the contractor last week and he said it was the first ever. I was like are you sure? He was like yeh.


You guys are first in one respect for sure....There haven't been any big sections in LA at major film recording venues like Sony sampled on Union sessions where a contractor would be involved....which is probably why the contractor was not familiar with the history of all the legit sampling sessions in LA that have been done union.

Of course, the Union famously "banned" sampling sessions in LA for quite awhile....which was obviously dumb. The work just went elsewhere and to non-union players and to other cities around the world.

Our way around that in those "ignorant days" was to just book the sessions with union musicians that weren't freaked out about sampling, and then we paid them through the Union as regular recording dates at multiple scale rates, etc.

I've got lots of funny Union stories though....it's been quite an entertaining thing watching them trying to catch up with music technology. Next time I see you guys, remind me and I'll tell you some of them! 

Some hilarious Union meetings with endless debates that resulted in bans on the following evil devices:

• String Machines
• Mellotrons
• All Samplers
• MIDI

I think I remember a few pitchforks at those infamous meetings too! 

Sounds like they've finally come to terms with MIDI and sampling at least...so they are running about 1985 level now. 

(BTW, I'm happy to be a local 47 member myself)



> I knew there was some talk of Roland in there when we spoke with the AFM. Well hats off to Spectrum - we all know he sits on the iron throne anyway


Yiikes....sounds like a dangerous avatar! 

Cheers,

spectrum


----------



## Dirk Ehlert (Jun 21, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

Thumbs up for the feature pdf. Will start to fill my little piggy, not much time left till fall 

Cheers
Dirk


----------



## Casey Edwards (Jul 3, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*

When you guys are done recording, you will certainly know what is and isn't going to be in the Pro expansion right? If this is so then it would be great to have a list of all patches that are going to be included could be listed so that we can A/B this with other Brass libraries. I have CineBrass and I have high hopes for the Pro expansion, but if I need to supplement another library on top of CineBrass Pro then I'd like to buy now, so I can have money ready for Pro when it's time.


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## mducharme (Jul 3, 2011)

+1 for muted brass. Also stopped horns and flutter tongue.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jul 3, 2011)

no
mention
of
COWBELL?

for shame!


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jul 3, 2011)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Jul 03 said:


> no
> mention
> of
> COWBELL?
> ...




Truly the only fever reducer available.


----------



## RiffWraith (Jul 3, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Expansion to CineBrass coming this Fall!*


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 11, 2011)

We are at the SONY Pictures Scoring stage this week for the CineBrass PRO sampling sessions!
Will be posting pictures and updates throughout the week:
http://facebook.com/cinesamples
http://twitter.com/cinesamples


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 11, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Live tweets and pics from the sessions!*

Already? Man you guys are quick !

I know it’s kinda late to be asking, but I noticed on the HB articulation sheet that there’s no mute sfz (sfzpp!!) stuff. Those are really a must since that’s one of the most usefull sonorities and functions of muted brass. I could point out dozens upon dozens of examples (Debussy, Stravinsky, Prokofiev, etc.). It may not be used in Hollywood, but please make your library comprehensive for all ! Please include these for solo trumpetes! Just one velocity layer necessary !!!! o-[][]-o


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## noiseboyuk (Jul 11, 2011)

Wow, great news guys! Will be watching the updates eagerly.

So - tell us your philosophy here. You've been beyond reproach in terms of canvasing feedback on 1.0 and asking for Pro artics. Do you want (or need) to keep back the details of what is actually in and out for now, or is there anything we can know good and early?

Enjoy the sessions and the hallowed ground one more time, all the best to everyone on the project.


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 11, 2011)

The charts are pretty much outlined at the moment.


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 11, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Live tweets and pics from the sessions!*

Well, the evening that you finish early, and the trumpet player doesn’t know what to do....

That would just be about 36 notes to play (solo Trumpet only) in one velocity layer: Sfz and subito PP sus for about 2 seconds.

Thanks and good luck !! o=< o=< o=<


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## Cinesamples (Jul 12, 2011)

Week going well so far. Heading to sleep now, man this is exhausting... 

http://facebook.com/cinesamples 
http://twitter.com/cinesamples


----------



## Darkforest408 (Jul 13, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Live tweets and pics from the sessions!*

In one of your twitter pics, it looks like you guys sampled "clipped" audio. I think it was the triple forte. 

I like stuff loud though, so that's good.


----------



## guydoingmusic (Jul 13, 2011)

Kazoos, Kazoos, Kazoos!!!!!!!! Triple F Kazoos!!!! 

I mean... who DOESN'T need a Kazoo Section to implement into their orchestral template?

/brad


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jul 13, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Live tweets and pics from the sessions!*



Darkforest408 @ Wed Jul 13 said:


> In one of your twitter pics, it looks like you guys sampled "clipped" audio. I think it was the triple forte.
> 
> I like stuff loud though, so that's good.



I thought about pointing that out before thinking a) it could be a bad take or - more likely - b) the vertical resolution is set high so it looks louder than it is. I decided not to worry and assume if it was clipped that the ears involved would hear it easily enough!


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 13, 2011)

I love you guys.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jul 13, 2011)

CineSamples @ Thu Jul 14 said:


> I love you guys.



Hey, aren't we great though?! So the sessions were "wow"?! Come on, gush a little more! Tell us! Tell us!!!


----------



## gregjazz (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Live tweets and pics from the sessions!*



noiseboyuk @ Wed Jul 13 said:


> Darkforest408 @ Wed Jul 13 said:
> 
> 
> > In one of your twitter pics, it looks like you guys sampled "clipped" audio. I think it was the triple forte.
> ...


It's no doubt just the vertical sizing. I'm sure Dennis Sands wouldn't let any clipping through.


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 18, 2011)

Recording 12 Horns for CineBrass PRO! http://fb.me/QgbJR1MV


----------



## gsilbers (Jul 18, 2011)

so what did you guys decided to add?


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 18, 2011)

Chances are we made a lot of people on Vi-Control very happy with the new features. We will release details little by little as we progress here.


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 18, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*

Wicked!! >8o


----------



## dcoscina (Jul 18, 2011)

At this rate, CB PRO will be out before HB and with demos no doubt...sorry, very bad joke but I couldn't resist.


----------



## JT (Jul 18, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*

This is exciting news! I'm so glad I bought the Cinebrass base package. Can't wait for this sequel. Thanks to all the VI members whose feedback convinced me to jump on the bandwagon.


----------



## mducharme (Jul 18, 2011)

12 horns? I would personally have liked to see a larger range of articulations for the existing section sizes, and 2-horns samples added, rather than a larger-than-life 12 horns section. Still, I'm looking forward to the expansion - it will be nice to have more layers/articulations for the solo instruments.


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 18, 2011)

We haven't announced the contents of the remaining 90% of the library.


----------



## Casey Edwards (Jul 18, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*

All I can say is...Jesus... Christ.... I'm so stoked!


----------



## dannthr (Jul 18, 2011)

Hah, very cool guys.

Though I am in the Mducharme camp and really hoping you guys nailed some really spectacular 2 horn patches.

I feel like I have more epic 6+ horns than I can shake a stick at... and my stick ain't shy of shakin'.


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## Dominik Raab (Jul 18, 2011)

12 Horns? Holy crap, Mike... Inception Soundtrack has already been recorded, we don't need another one of that! =D
Nah, kidding. I'm really looking forward to CineBrass Pro. You guys are amazing.


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## Cinesamples (Jul 19, 2011)

Jon Lewis and Rick Baptist playing some muted trumpet stuff for CineBrass PRO. http://fb.me/115UpH6A9

Jon and Rick are arguably the best studio trumpeters in the world. What an honor to have them there.

So, yeah we grabbed full articulations with mutes. All sections

More info coming... (including soloists and divisi info)


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jul 20, 2011)

Oooh baby.... here's what is already known:

12 horns
More solo instruments
Divisi
Mutes
fff

...and the Cinebrass sound, scripting and Kontakt. Pretty damn good, I'd say...


----------



## Hicks (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*

who really need 12 horns?
It is total useless.

Divisi was much more needed than 12 horns!!!!


----------



## rpaillot (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*



Hicks @ Wed Jul 20 said:


> who really need 12 horns?
> It is total useless.
> 
> Divisi was much more needed than 12 horns!!!!



You're such a "RABAT-JOIE" Hicks !!!!!!!!!

John Powell actually uses 12 horns in some of his recordings. So it IS useful


----------



## Dominik Raab (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*



Hicks @ Wed 20 Jul said:


> who really need 12 horns?
> It is total useless.
> 
> Divisi was much more needed than 12 horns!!!!



That, Sir, is your opinion. You may have it, but please don't pretend Cinesamples are idiots because they record 12 horns. It seems like you've done that. Bad move.

You know, some people are certainly interested in more experimental and "new" forms of music and sampling. I am really looking forward to the 12 horns patch.
Be certain that Cinesamples won't forget to improve all the other things in CineBrass as well. They will not ONLY add 12 horns, you know?


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*

I get the feeling that Mike and Mike have understood that they hit an all around home run with version 1, and that there’s a huge market for a do-it-all, kick-ass sounding Brass machine.

Here's to hoping you go the extra mile & take the time to include everything, like it seems you are!

o-[][]-o


----------



## Hicks (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*

yes, fair enough.

I expect so much of this library, that the only lack for me is divisi to make it a real killer.
So ok for 12 horn + divisi, please :D


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*



Hicks @ Wed Jul 20 said:


> yes, fair enough.
> 
> I expect so much of this library, that the only lack for me is divisi to make it a real killer.
> So ok for 12 horn + divisi, please :D



To quote:



Cinesamples said:


> More info coming... (including soloists and divisi info)



I know on long threads its not practical to read the whole lot before posting, but a quick scan of the previous few is always a good idea to avoid a red face after what looks like this kind of thing:

Developer - divisi info to come

Punter - rubbish library, there's no divisi


----------



## Ed (Jul 20, 2011)

Cough cough i said it before but we need a great solo horn that works properly in lots of different passages before we need 3 of them, I'm sure CS knows that  And as someone said Divisi matters much less in brass.


----------



## caseyjames (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*

I bought Cinebrass and have used it in two scores so far. The sound is fantastic.

I hope that this 12 horn business is really the excess of what is to be a gigantic library and its not a gimmick that is going to take precedence over the basic utilitarian programs that are woefully missing from the initial Cinebrass.


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 20, 2011)

CineSamples @ Mon Jul 18 said:


> We haven't announced the contents of the remaining 90% of the library.


----------



## dcoscina (Jul 20, 2011)

Starting to save for this library. The proof is in the pudding and CineBrass ver1 kicks total ass. I haven't written this much for brass in my life. The sound is so rewarding.


----------



## dcoscina (Jul 20, 2011)

p.s I wonder if Jon Loving will be coming up with a Sound Set for CineBrass for Sibelius? That would be EPIC! It inhabits such a low footprint it would be amazing to have these sounds to compose with inside a powerful notation program like Sibelius 6.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*



caseyjames @ Wed Jul 20 said:


> I hope that this 12 horn business is really the excess of what is to be a gigantic library and its not a gimmick that is going to take precedence over the basic utilitarian programs that are woefully missing from the initial Cinebrass.



Again... don't want to be rude, but is it too much to ask that people read at least the previous page worth of posts before posting stuff like this? Devs shouldn't have to just cut and paste their previous posts.


----------



## caseyjames (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*

Im not asking a question, Im weighing in, as a cinebrass customer, on the what I want to see in the final product. I'm trying to give them a clear picture of what their customers are looking for. I'm sure all of the opinions are taken into consideration.

I read the thread and there is nothing specific... This was the most useful bit I saw

12 horns 
More solo instruments 
Divisi 
Mutes 
fff 

That doesn't address what I'm after. I want all solo and ensemble instruments represented in a complete and consistent manner, with all dynamics, legato and all articulations -- preferably all in the same nki, and the ability to play passages at most tempos. It is not clear if that is what is in store so I want them to know that it is more important to this customer than ensembles of 12 24 or 96 horns.

If more solo instruments means a solo trombone in the same mold as the solo horn I wont be thrilled. Hopefully that wont be the case.

Clearer?


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jul 20, 2011)

That's all good, Casey, the previous post made it sound like you hadn't read that the 12 horn thing is only a tiny fraction of the library.

At this stage of course it's all rather moot as the recording is done - did you put your asks in when cavassed a couple of months ago? I'm sure we're all keen to hear more details, and the guys have said they'll be forthcoming. I know more velocity layers for the solo instruments was a top request - I'd like that very much too, along with fff (which we know is done) and ppp. My other biggest ask was better response at fast legato lines, but 1.1 might well address this anyway by the sounds of things.


----------



## mikebarry (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*

I think our horn divisi solution is one of the best thought out and most sonically accurate things we have ever done.

I think it will be the most real sounding divis possible.


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jul 20, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*



mikebarry @ Wed Jul 20 said:


> I think our horn divisi solution is one of the best thought out and most sonically accurate things we have ever done.
> 
> I think it will be the most real sounding divis possible.



OK - that's it -- the next pet I acquire is gonna be named Mike for sure. Best news you guys!!!!


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 20, 2011)

Alex Iles recording solo trombone legato and articulations for CineBrass PRO. http://fb.me/GQ2eGzDg

You guys may know him from his famous "LOST" trombone falls before the commercial break 
He can do quite a bit more than that though!


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jul 21, 2011)

CineSamples @ Thu Jul 21 said:


> Alex Iles recording solo trombone legato and articulations for CineBrass PRO. http://fb.me/GQ2eGzDg
> 
> You guys may know him from his famous "LOST" trombone falls before the commercial break
> He can do quite a bit more than that though!



Fab. But you did get him to do one or two, right?! o=<


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Jul 21, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*



mikebarry @ 20/7/2011 said:


> I think our horn divisi solution is one of the best thought out and most sonically accurate things we have ever done.
> 
> I think it will be the most real sounding divis possible.



I think this is a beautiful thing that needs to repeated!


----------



## windshore (Jul 21, 2011)

I am wondering when Cinebrass 1 will see an update? I know it was mentioned as being in the pipeline. (I was guessing they would finish before working on Pro, but perhaps not.)


----------



## Ed (Jul 21, 2011)

CineSamples @ Wed Jul 20 said:


> You guys may know him from his famous "LOST" trombone falls before the commercial break



i hope you got him to record that, I know i want to make it as easy as possible to rip off Lost if I want


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 21, 2011)

windshore @ Thu Jul 21 said:


> I am wondering when Cinebrass 1 will see an update? I know it was mentioned as being in the pipeline. (I was guessing they would finish before working on Pro, but perhaps not.)


We are working on CineBrass v1.1 now.
CineBrass PRO is in the sample editing stage now. 
We have a team.


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 21, 2011)

dcoscina @ Wed Jul 20 said:


> p.s I wonder if Jon Loving will be coming up with a Sound Set for CineBrass for Sibelius? That would be EPIC! It inhabits such a low footprint it would be amazing to have these sounds to compose with inside a powerful notation program like Sibelius 6.



He is.


----------



## windshore (Jul 21, 2011)

CineSamples @ 7/21/2011 said:


> We are working on CineBrass v1.1 now.
> CineBrass PRO is in the sample editing stage now.
> We have a team.



Awesome!


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 21, 2011)

Hey that’s great that you have a team on the editing job! /\~O


----------



## sevaels (Jul 21, 2011)

Man I want my Cinebrass update.


----------



## dcoscina (Jul 21, 2011)

Wonderful news about the Sibelius thing. Combining LASS with CineBrass in Sibelius 6 will be killer. 

Just as a side note- I played my Captain America Theme ver2 for a conductor in L.A. just an hour ago and he had to ask if the brass were real. Yes, CineBrass is that good!

Great job CineSamples. You have a life long customer in me. Now where are CineStrings? KIDDING!


----------



## sevaels (Jul 21, 2011)

Certainly wouldn't want to say anything bad about either. Based on the recent demo though the other lib seems to have this one beat in the 'nimble legato' department.

Hoping v1.1 can remedy that issue.

Cinesamples guys always have some magic up the sleeves so I'm sure the update will be killer as usual.


----------



## dcoscina (Jul 21, 2011)

I don't worry about it. I know 1.1 will be amazing. Truthfully, I'm still having a ball with ver 1.0. I still just cannot get over that tone in the trumpets. They slay everything!!!


----------



## sevaels (Jul 21, 2011)

Yeah. Completely in love with the tone of this library. :D


----------



## gregjazz (Jul 22, 2011)

sevaels @ Thu Jul 21 said:


> Certainly wouldn't want to say anything bad about either. Based on the recent demo though the other lib seems to have this one beat in the 'nimble legato' department.
> 
> Hoping v1.1 can remedy that issue.


That is absolutely one of our main focuses as in the 1.1 update.

Legato is a tricky balance--too little preroll/decay and it sounds synthy. Too much and it feels laggy when playing from a keyboard or working with in your sequencer.

But so far, the legato in CineBrass 1.1 has improved. I've cleaned up the muddiness issue with the legato, too.


----------



## sevaels (Jul 22, 2011)

Great to hear Greg  

Thanks!


----------



## Casey Edwards (Jul 22, 2011)

gregjazz @ Fri Jul 22 said:


> That is absolutely one of our main focuses as in the 1.1 update.
> 
> Legato is a tricky balance--too little preroll/decay and it sounds synthy. Too much and it feels laggy when playing from a keyboard or working with in your sequencer.
> 
> But so far, the legato in CineBrass 1.1 has improved. I've cleaned up the muddiness issue with the legato, too.



Greg, any idea on how far out this update is?


----------



## Darkforest408 (Jul 22, 2011)

I really....REALLY don't want to sound like a an idiot or someone who doesn't know how to use the search button. but....

Has there been any talks of a pricing model? or at least a retail price goal? 

Again sorry, if this had been mentioned.


----------



## Casey Edwards (Jul 22, 2011)

Darkforest408 @ Fri Jul 22 said:


> I really....REALLY don't want to sound like a an idiot or someone who doesn't know how to use the search button. but....
> 
> Has there been any talks of a pricing model? or at least a retail price goal?
> 
> Again sorry, if this had been mentioned.



Last time they didn't post a price for CineBrass until it was available for purchase to download on their website, so I'd say expect the same.


----------



## dcoscina (Jul 22, 2011)

Darkforest408 @ Fri Jul 22 said:


> I really....REALLY don't want to sound like a an idiot or someone who doesn't know how to use the search button. but....
> 
> Has there been any talks of a pricing model? or at least a retail price goal?
> 
> Again sorry, if this had been mentioned.



Mike mentioned that it would be a very competitive price for upgrading from ver 1. Seeing that the initial price tag was so reasonable, I believe it will be pretty nice.

I don't mind waiting for Fall for this upgrade anyhoo since I just got CineBrass and CineHarp (as well as Spitfire Albion). I'm really pleased with CineSamples' products. They are dead simple to use and don't break the bank. Tone is spectacular as well.


----------



## dcoscina (Jul 22, 2011)

*Re: CineBrass PRO - Recording 12 Horns!!*



mikebarry @ Wed Jul 20 said:


> I think our horn divisi solution is one of the best thought out and most sonically accurate things we have ever done.
> 
> I think it will be the most real sounding divis possible.



dude, that rocks! _-)


----------



## mducharme (Jul 22, 2011)

Is there going to be a solo bass trombone in Cinebrass Pro, by any chance? I notice your competitor does not, and I use a solo bass trombone sample quite often.

Thanks!


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 24, 2011)

CineBrass PRO low brass section. 3 Tenors, Bass, Contra, Tuba and Cimbasso. Also the great Bruce Fowler in the distance http://fb.me/11Jp44mwm

Pricing info will not be released until release day. Release day is "fall". We will give more specific dates as we get closer.


----------



## Cinesamples (Jul 24, 2011)

With that low brass we did some "CineOrch" style low chords, doubled with the horns. What a nice rich sound, all the inversions, all major/minors. Pretty cool tool.

By the way, we're just showing the cool stuff first.. we'll get to the soloists stuff next.

Also, sample chopping is progressing very nicely and ahead of schedule.


----------



## JT (Jul 25, 2011)

While I'm looking forward to seeing what's in CineBrass Pro, these patches with chord inversions are practically useless to me. As Michael mentioned aove, I'm much more interested in seeing what soloists are included, as well as separate low brass sections. Since my music ultimately is for live players, I prefer to create my own voicings.


----------



## Mike Connelly (Jul 25, 2011)

I like what I"m seeing.

I know the original CB lacked the ffff end of the spectrum and you made sure to get it this time around. Will you be adding extra fff layer to existing CB patches or will it just be in the new CBP patches?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jul 25, 2011)

Sounds great! Would you also consider doing the same, but with cowbells? I'm thinking an Alpine set, with Min/Maj/Whole/Clusterflock.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jul 25, 2011)

Seriously, I love your CineOrch low chords idea applied to brass! It's not something I use for every cue, but when I need a realistic chord for accent, endings, etc, it's hard to beat! The best is to have both the solo and chords, which we will.


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## Darkforest408 (Jul 26, 2011)

After hearing the HB trumpet demo, it's really cinesamples game to lose/win now. HB just didn't hit me with the wow factor that Hollywood strings did.


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## Mike Connelly (Jul 26, 2011)

How are things coming with the fast legato? Even if the update is a ways off from release it would be great to hear a demo of where you guys are at (especially now that the other guys have demos out that show off fast legato).


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## sarobin (Jul 27, 2011)

I couldn't find any info on which mutes were being recorded. Really hoping for a decent set of plungers...


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## Christian F. Perucchi (Aug 8, 2011)

It would be great to add not so common articulations,like the ones you find in avantgarde or classical contemporary music, and jazz as well, at least for soloist instruments, i think no other library have this, except vsl and some cool articulations i find in advance orchestra, don´t you think?


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## noiseboyuk (Aug 12, 2011)

Hello Mikes! Methinks it would be a perfect time to increase the amount of info we know about the upcoming library from 10% to... well, I'm gonna go for 57%. Waddaya say?


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## artinro (Aug 12, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Fri Aug 12 said:


> Hello Mikes! Methinks it would be a perfect time to increase the amount of info we know about the upcoming library from 10% to... well, I'm gonna go for 57%. Waddaya say?



+1


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