# Native Instruments....What do you actually use?



## José Herring (Nov 6, 2021)

I have one of the Komplete packages but to be honest, besides a few synths that I like, I don't use much of it. So I'm looking here at about 117 uninstalled products and started thinking...hmmmm....Maybe I should try these out

Curious to find out besides the Native Instruments synths and Kontakt what do you actually use?


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## darkogav (Nov 6, 2021)

That's hard to answer. It's really dependent on what sort of music you are making. FWIW.. most used in my case are Drumlab, Super8, Kontour, Rounds


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## Nico5 (Nov 6, 2021)

Guitar Rig can be a very interesting fx chain for many plucked kind of sounds well beyond guitar
Drum Lab provides a rather quick way to combine acoustic and synthetic drums
If you don't play the guitar and need some quick bread and butter kind of riffs, the Session Guitarists (Acoustic and Electric) may prove useful for drafting


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## José Herring (Nov 6, 2021)

darkogav said:


> That's hard to answer. It's really dependent on what sort of music you are making. FWIW.. most used in my case are Drumlab, Super8, Kontour, Rounds


I make what everybody else is making. Film, TV, Library and Trailer music. Is there any other kind of music to make?


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## jbuhler (Nov 6, 2021)

Various drum kits, Damage, Rise and Hit, Action Strikes, the pianos (since I’m not picky and they are usually sufficient for my needs), Kontakt Factory Library, session guitars. I use other bits here and there. I don’t use the effects much, and most of them are uninstalled.


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## Chamberfield (Nov 6, 2021)

NOIRE, Una Corda, Colors, and Guitar Rig.


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## José Herring (Nov 6, 2021)

Keep 'em comin'. I'm downloading as people post to try things out.


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## Pier-V (Nov 6, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I make what everybody else is making. Film, TV, Library and Trailer music. Is there any other kind of music to make?


Is that question a _challenge_? Remember, you never said it has to be worth it 



Nico5 said:


> Guitar Rig can be a very interesting fx chain for many plucked kind of sounds well beyond guitar


I second that. Aside from the usual suspects (like the Solid eq/comp series), one plug-in in particular that surprises me every time is the Psyche delay using the "chorus" preset

Currently, I'm trying to understand if Retro Machines MkII is worth installing - probably not really useful for film music though...


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## Robo Rivard (Nov 6, 2021)

Besides Kontakt Full, I don't see the point to get Komplete. Thrill and Mysteria are the only two libraries I would get outside of the package. I already own them... Everything shines brighter elsewhere.


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## Nico5 (Nov 6, 2021)

Pier-V said:


> Currently, I'm trying to understand if Retro Machines MkII is worth installing - probably not really useful for film music though...


Retro Machines MkII doesn't do much for me, but for interesting synthery Modular Icons is more my cup of tea.


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## AMBi (Nov 6, 2021)

Noire is the love of my life

Cremona is one of my favorite quartets with some of the best shorts of any solo string library.

The picked guitarist melody instrument is nice in it's simplicity and I find to be a great compliment to my Orange Tree Samples stuff.

The Discovery series is pretty great honestly, especially if you're short on world instruments.

Both Pharlight and Straylight don't fit my music preferences as much since they're more on the synthy side of things but I'm happy I have them since they add pretty nice flavors for any cinematic underscoring I may need.

Damage is so iconic I think it speaks for itself.

Mallet Flux and Kontakt Factory library are my current go-to's for any tuned percussion and mallets. 

Battery 4 has an insane amount of drum kits that are nice to have. 

Replika can act as a shimmer/black hole reverb if you don't already have one of those.

And of course the massive amount of synth content you get with it that I'll likely never be able to explore completely.


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## Nico5 (Nov 6, 2021)

For Kontakt libraries:

"The Giant" piano is an interesting idea and it also has a Cinematic patch.

Also potentially useful for cinematic:

"Etherial Earth"
"Cloud Supply"


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## Rossy (Nov 6, 2021)

I'm looking to join the club but can't decide between the basic or standard, do you get a lot more for an extra $400?


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## Arbee (Nov 6, 2021)

If I only had two instruments in Komplete they would be The Grandeur (I like it more than Noire for general use) and Battery 4 (the more I use it the more I like it).


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## Nico5 (Nov 6, 2021)

Rossy said:


> basic or standard


not sure, if you've already seen the comparison page:









Compare







www.native-instruments.com





Arguably one of the biggest differentiators between Komplete Select and the regular Komplete is the full version of Kontakt in the latter. There's a ton of (sometimes relatively inexpensive, but very good) 3rd party Kontakt libraries, that will only work with the full version of Kontakt. 

In my subjective view, the regular version of Komplete has always had the relatively best overall cost/benefit ratio in the Native Instruments universe.


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## José Herring (Nov 6, 2021)

Chamberfield said:


> NOIRE, Una Corda, Colors, and Guitar Rig.


Playing around with Una Corda and really like it. Then I thought but it sounds like the Hammer is only hitting one string...Then it hit me.....UNA CORDA....ahhh


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## Pier (Nov 6, 2021)

Arbee said:


> If I only had two instruments in Komplete they would be The Grandeur (I like it more than Noire for general use) and Battery 4 (the more I use it the more I like it).


I was a *huge* Battery fan from v1 to v3.

Then I moved to Ableton Live and then Bitwig. Both have a Drum Rack which was probably inspired by Battery and are so much more powerful, you wouldn't believe it.

Eg: You can insert a sample into a cell (but you could insert any VST synth instead) and then insert any FX (again any vst) only for that particular cell.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 7, 2021)

Kontakt, Kontakt Factory lib, Noire and the India, Africa etc libs. The rest got uninstalled one by one. Frankly, it's just a really expensive Kontakt license.


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## Arbee (Nov 7, 2021)

Pier said:


> I was a *huge* Battery fan from v1 to v3.
> 
> Then I moved to Ableton Live and then Bitwig. Both have a Drum Rack which was probably inspired by Battery and are so much more powerful, you wouldn't believe it.
> 
> Eg: You can insert a sample into a cell (but you could insert any VST synth instead) and then insert any FX (again any vst) only for that particular cell.


Not listening not listening not listening 🙉. I've been tempted to try Bitwig so many times 😖


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## cedricm (Nov 7, 2021)

Pier said:


> I was a *huge* Battery fan from v1 to v3.
> 
> Then I moved to Ableton Live and then Bitwig. Both have a Drum Rack which was probably inspired by Battery and are so much more powerful, you wouldn't believe it.
> 
> Eg: You can insert a sample into a cell (but you could insert any VST synth instead) and then insert any FX (again any vst) only for that particular cell.


Studio One's Impact is pretty powerful too. Can't insert a VSTi in a cell, but FX chains yes.


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## TomislavEP (Nov 7, 2021)

As I wrote many times before, Komplete is definitely a cornerstone for me, although I must admit that I regularly use only a selected range of the included products. Here is what I have installed all the time:


Kontakt, Reaktor, Guitar Rig, and Massive X
Most Kontakt libraries included in K12S
Most Reaktor Player compatible ensembles from NI
Mod Series FX range
Other FX plugins (though seldomly used)
I use many Kontakt libraries from Native on a daily basis, their piano range being my first choice for any kind of work involving the piano (I'm a multi-instrumentalist but primarily a pianist). Komplete is also my go-to for other keys, synths, drums, percussion, and any other kind of mainstream sounds. I agree that for orchestral, cinematic, sound design, and more specialized uses, there are plenty of better options available, which is why I've deliberately chosen the Standard version over the Ultimate one as a basis which I expand with 3rd party solutions, according to my needs and means.


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## AudioLoco (Nov 7, 2021)

NI Transient Master is the top transient shaper plugin around, love it.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 7, 2021)

Kontakt (duh)
REAKTOR
Absynth 5
Super 8
Some Play instruments (Kontakt)
Noire


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 7, 2021)

Picked Acoustic
Straylight 
Pharlight
Session Horns Pro
Damage
The Gentleman (+ Replika Delay for that "Trailer Piano" sound)
Noire
The Grandeur


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## b_elliott (Nov 7, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Curious to find out besides the Native Instruments synths and Kontakt what do you actually use?
> 
> 
> José Herring said:
> ...


I mainly use Kontakt (standard) for the 3rd party stuff (especially freebies). My most used drums are Sennheiser's Drummic'a (excellent) followed by Clare Solo Vocals.

FWIW Another approach is for you to look at a screenshot in any one of Daniel James videos (such as NI's Thrill ) and you'll see what he has loaded in Kontakt (lots). Though that particular link is 2017, there's recent stuff: NI Mysteria, etc,

Also noticed from Pete Calandra's videos he uses Skarabee bass and in one he explored NI's Form -- you get the idea.
Cheers, Bill

ps It is laughable I would have anything to suggest; but, today I delightfully discovered it is daylight savings time so I now have a new free hour to mess with.


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## darkogav (Nov 7, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I make what everybody else is making. Film, TV, Library and Trailer music. Is there any other kind of music to make?


You paid for it. It would be silly not to try to use it. I have found that I sometimes am out of ideas, so I will just load up a new project and add a few VIs that I don't use and try to figure out what is possible to do with them. That's how I get into the Reaktor based instruments. They are surprisingly good and much easier to use than making your own patches from scratch in reaktor.


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## bill5 (Nov 15, 2021)

Ethereal Earth
25 (exploring it at least)
Massive
Absynth

I think some of Factory Library will be used too just not right now


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## Geoff Grace (Nov 15, 2021)

Lots of good choices mentioned already. I’ll add Arkhis to the list.

I find that Battery 4’s sample content makes great additional source material for XLN Audio’s XO.

Also, there are some things I rarely use anymore; but I keep them for backward compatibility, like the Scarbee stuff.

Best,

Geoff


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## artomatic (Nov 15, 2021)

About 5% of Ultimate.


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## KEM (Nov 16, 2021)

Well I use Kontakt…

That’s about it lol


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## bill5 (Nov 16, 2021)

Surprised no one has said Reaktor, given the hype it's been given here


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## nolotrippen (Nov 16, 2021)

Pier-V said:


> Currently, I'm trying to understand if Retro Machines MkII is worth installing - probably not really useful for film music though...


If you need synth sounds, Retro is definitely worth the instal. Any one patch has 8 variations to play with at the push of a button. I love it.


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## cuttime (Nov 16, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Surprised no one has said Reaktor, given the hype it's been given here


Form and Prism.


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## Trensharo (Nov 16, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> In my subjective view, the regular version of Komplete has always had the relatively best overall cost/benefit ratio in the Native Instruments universe.


Agree. The only reason to go for the bigger versions is if you're want specific libraries and it's cheaper to just go all the way they buy them individually.

Buying Kontakt alone is low value due to the sales that NI routinely has. You mind as well just go for Komplete, which does have some nice gems in it (and if you do synth-based production... a ton of value).


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## Mornats (Nov 16, 2021)

No one ever seems to talk about Kinetic Metal. If you like metallic, rthymic textures it's worth a look. Perhaps it's a bit old and was overused back in the day? I quite like it still but I'm far from a pro.


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## bill5 (Nov 16, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> Agree. The only reason to go for the bigger versions is if you're want specific libraries and it's cheaper to just go all the way they buy them individually.
> 
> Buying Kontakt alone is low value due to the sales that NI routinely has. You mind as well just go for Komplete, which does have some nice gems in it (and if you do synth-based production... a ton of value).


I disagree completely, but this could vary depending on your needs and expectations. Yeah Komplete has a ton of stuff but it's outrageously expensive and IMO huge overkill for most people, and IMO a lot of it is "pretty good" or maybe even "good" stuff. And that's not a criticism and that could work out great for some, again depending on your needs. You don't have to have the very "best" of every conceivable VI (which is so subjective anyway and the differences are often hugely exaggerated). But buying Kontakt (esp in light of the free Factory) is far, far more cost effective.


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## Ben E (Nov 16, 2021)

Replika
Replika XT
Kontakt Factory Library


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## Trensharo (Nov 16, 2021)

bill5 said:


> I disagree completely, but this could vary depending on your needs and expectations. Yeah Komplete has a ton of stuff but it's outrageously expensive and IMO huge overkill for most people, and IMO a lot of it is "pretty good" or maybe even "good" stuff. And that's not a criticism and that could work out great for some, again depending on your needs. You don't have to have the very "best" of every conceivable VI (which is so subjective anyway and the differences are often hugely exaggerated). But buying Kontakt (esp in light of the free Factory) is far, far more cost effective.


Get on sale 3-4x a year. Only expensive if you don't pay attention. 

Who pays full price for 75% of the software out these in 2021, really?


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## bill5 (Nov 16, 2021)

Even on sale it is expensive is my point...


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## Mornats (Nov 17, 2021)

Ben E said:


> Replika
> Replika XT
> Kontakt Factory Library


Replika XT is my go-to delay and is holding me off from buying Valhalla Delay (sacrilege I know). Also Supercharger GT is a nicer sounding, warmer Punish if you push it.


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## alcorey (Nov 17, 2021)

AMBi said:


> Noire is the love of my life
> 
> Cremona is one of my favorite quartets with some of the best shorts of any solo string library.
> 
> ...


Absolutely!! - but you have to have 13 Ultimate Collectors Edition to know this 

2/3 of what is available in 13UCE I have not downloaded and probably will never download as it is not what I am interested in - but the value of the 1/3 that I did download is worth 10 times what I paid to get it (sales, sales, sales... and waiting for the right opportunities to move up to UCE)


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## Mr Greg G (Nov 17, 2021)

So much quality stuff in Komplete like Noire and Alicia’s Keys, these are my go to pianos, their solo violin Stradivari violin sounds quite good, all their ethnic libraires too (India, Cuba, Middle East, West Africa), Butch Vig Drums etc etc.

They have very high quality libraries and synths (Massive, FM8…) you should definitely try them all to see which ones you like because your list may differ from ours.


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## Crowe (Nov 17, 2021)

Man, what *don't* I use. I don't really use Symphony Series. And I have very little use for the Guitar-pattern stuff right now. I don't use any of the synths much anymore because of their dumbdumb license agreement.

But I use most of the Effects and compressors, the Transient Master is gold and Reaktor is my personal synth-god. The Basses and pianos are all fantastic too.

Honestly I've decided that folk who have Komplete but don't like most of what it comes with are just weirdos. Almost all of this stuff is professional grade.


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## utkujj (Nov 17, 2021)

I have komplete 12 its very inefficient for cinematic and classic arrangements.
*Favorites*
una corda is incredible but all other pianos are very bad(Gentleman,Maverick,Grandeur)
Rounds,Battery is very capable for electronic music.
Massive X have quality sound but not easy to use.

*Frustrations*
Session strings sound is very synthetic.As a violin player a total disappointment.Also horns are bad.
Spotlight collection instruments(like west africa,middle east) have a synthy voice.I can't hear any realistic sounds from them.

All effect plug ins are weak except for Transient master,guitar rig and solid bus compressor.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2021)

utkujj said:


> all other pianos are very bad


This is a very local opinion I'm afraid


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## utkujj (Nov 17, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> This is a very local opinion I'm afraid


Sure but its my thoughts


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## doctoremmet (Nov 17, 2021)

utkujj said:


> Sure but its my thoughts


Which was exactly my point. But I totally recognize how it has been increasingly hard for people to word their opinions to not sound like facts


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## utkujj (Nov 17, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Which was exactly my point. But I totally recognize how it has been increasingly hard for people to word their opinions to not sound like facts


I have no pennys to waste.Im living in poor country.Thats why its frustrating for me.Otherwise i can pick more softer words for criticism


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## darkogav (Nov 17, 2021)

utkujj said:


> I have komplete 12 its very inefficient for cinematic and classic arrangements.
> *Favorites*
> una corda is incredible but all other pianos are very bad(Gentleman,Maverick,Grandeur)
> Rounds,Battery is very capable for electronic music.
> ...


I have K12U which I got based on the media hype around Massive X. I have yet to be able to wiggle a usable sound from Massive X. But I don't regret the purchase. You get a lot of stuff with it to work with. Some things that I use a lot are Drumlab, Giant, Alicia Keys, the various Reaktor based instruments .. Kontour, Monark, Form..

re: effects. as far as tube effect emulations, I agree. there are much better and newer options on the market. Form the NI K colleciton. I like Mouth, Finger and Replika are good ones to experiment with.


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## Trensharo (Nov 17, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Even on sale it is expensive is my point...


$325 for Komplete isn't expensive. That's what I paid for it. Buy from the right reseller, and you don't even pay tax on that.

NI has the sale going on. I'm mulling if I should upgrade, but it's $400. I have money to burn, but I'm trying to be responsible :-P

I kind of want the solo violin, though I can buy that on sale for $99.


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## bill5 (Nov 17, 2021)

Wow that's waaay cheaper than I've seen it anywhere. Where did you see this?


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## dunamisstudio (Nov 17, 2021)

Action Strings 2 worth picking up outside of a Komplete Ultimate Update?


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## kleotessard (Nov 17, 2021)

I have K11U and I use :
Kontakt*
Massive* : Really cool synth
AR Vintage Drummer* : I like the tone
AR 70 Drummer
AR 80 Drummer*
AR Modern Drummer*
Battery 4* : This is really cool
Damage* : This is a fantastic tool.
Enhanced EQ*
Guitar Rig 5 Pro*
Mikro Prism
Passive EQ*
Prism
Raum*
RC24
RC48*
Reaktor Blocks
Replika XT
Session Horn Pro*
Session String Pro
Supercharger GT* : I like the saturation tool
The Giant* : The first piano library I used and still my favorite (it's not the best but I really like it)
Una Corda*
West Africa

With * the things I use the most.
The last two years have been difficult for me. I rarely buy new things so I have a lot of time to try and use the stuffs in Komplete. I think there are many cool things in this package.


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## Trensharo (Nov 17, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Wow that's waaay cheaper than I've seen it anywhere. Where did you see this?


Crossgrade to Kontakt from Arcane (Freebie) for and then Upgrade from Kontakt to Komplete in the same order - both 50% off during the summer sale. $325 Total.

$124.50 (Kontakt Crossgrade) + $199 (Kontakt 6 -> Komplete 13 Upgrade)

Right now you can upgrade from Komplete to Komplete Ultimate for $381.16 at Best Service ($399 at Native Instruments). IIRC, you don't pay taxes there (at least if you're in the US). That's basically a 10% discount over the NI price when you factor in the taxes (well, my tax rate, at least).

Just not sure I have enough SSD space for it - and I don't want to buy a bigger SSD as that would effectively drive the cost up. So, I'm mulling...

The more I think about it, the less I want it though. Lol. The circle of iLife.


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## Crowe (Nov 17, 2021)

dunamisstudio said:


> Action Strings 2 worth picking up outside of a Komplete Ultimate Update?


I don't think so. I don't think any of the orchestral libraries short of the solo strings are great for purely orchestral applications, which now that I think about it is probably the issue some people have with Komplete on this board. ^^'


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## Trensharo (Nov 18, 2021)

dunamisstudio said:


> Action Strings 2 worth picking up outside of a Komplete Ultimate Update?


Listen to reviews and see. I think a lot of what's in there is of relatively high quality and people tend to take others' opinions and preferences as authoritative, here.

That beign said, Komplete Ultimate is a decent investment, but if you use more than a couple libraries out of it, buying a'la carte doesn't make sense.

The pricing structure is designed to push the bundles. NI, IKM, Steinberg, iZotope, Adobe, etc. all employ this tactic.


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## Satorious (Nov 19, 2021)

Crowe said:


> I don't think so. I don't think any of the orchestral libraries short of the solo strings are great for purely orchestral applications, which now that I think about it is probably the issue some people have with Komplete on this board. ^^'


Fair point, they are rather dramatic high/low ensembles out the box - but Action Strings 2 also has the ability to drag and drop midi into the DAW so you have further options if you want to play things through other libraries - you just need more libraries! 

I upgraded to Action Strings 2 yesterday and I'm having a lot of fun with it - definitely a significant up from the first one with was mostly gathering dust on my drive.


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## Crowe (Nov 19, 2021)

Satorious said:


> you just need more libraries!


Amen.


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## aeliron (Feb 11, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Man, what *don't* I use. I don't really use Symphony Series. And I have very little use for the Guitar-pattern stuff right now. I don't use any of the synths much anymore because of their dumbdumb license agreement.


What’s that about the license thing?


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## Crowe (Feb 12, 2022)

aeliron said:


> What’s that about the license thing?


You're not allowed to sell individual sounds made with Native instruments tools. So if you're a sound designer making samples like I am, you (technically) can't use Massive, Absynth etc. It's pretty ridiculous.


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## PaulieDC (Feb 12, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I have one of the Komplete packages but to be honest, besides a few synths that I like, I don't use much of it. So I'm looking here at about 117 uninstalled products and started thinking...hmmmm....Maybe I should try these out
> 
> Curious to find out besides the Native Instruments synths and Kontakt what do you actually use?


I own the 13 Ultimate Collectors edition. I use Kontakt because I have to for SSS, SCS, SSW and Berlin String Runs. if those get ported to the dedicated players, I’ll probably sell it.


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## proxima (Feb 12, 2022)

Crowe said:


> You're not allowed to sell individual sounds made with Native instruments tools. So if you're a sound designer making samples like I am, you (technically) can't use Massive, Absynth etc. It's pretty ridiculous.


Are you sure? Omnisphere uses absynth and reaktor ensembles routinely, and I'm not at all sure they acquired any kind of special license from NI. 

I've read the license carefully myself several times, and the restriction (section 3.7) on creating sample libraries seems to apply to using their samples and their presets. But I'm not a lawyer. 

Do you also avoid NI effects? For something like Molekular, it's practically a synth itself without a soundsource.


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## Crowe (Feb 12, 2022)

proxima said:


> Are you sure? Omnisphere uses absynth and reaktor ensembles routinely, and I'm not at all sure they acquired any kind of special license from NI.
> 
> I've read the license carefully myself several times, and the restriction (section 3.7) on creating sample libraries seems to apply to using their samples and their presets. But I'm not a lawyer.
> 
> Do you also avoid NI effects? For something like Molekular, it's practically a synth itself without a soundsource.


Yes, I am sure.



https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/210264205-Can-I-Use-Native-Instruments-Sounds-for-Commercial-Music-Production-



There's some fringe bullshit about how if you make sounds that do not match any of their presets at all it may be allowed case by case but there's a blanket ban.

I do use the effects and by now I've honestly stopped caring. NI can go f*** itself as far as I'm concerned.


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## IgneousOne (Feb 12, 2022)

I use Kontakt all the time, then Razor, Rounds and West Africa, India, East Asia. I've been tempted to go the full hog (Komplete) but I think I may spend far more time auditioning all the stuff, than actually composing with what I have.


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## R. Soul (Feb 12, 2022)

I'm surprised how little you guys use. 

I thought I use very little, but still find myself grapping these fairly often.
But as always, it very much depends on what I'm doing.

Battery 4
Noire
Electric Sunburst Deluxe
Various expansions
Damage 
Mallet Flux
Hybrid Keys
Lo-fi Glow


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## rMancer (Feb 12, 2022)

Besides the obvious Kontakt...

Absynth: Not an intuitive synth to program from scratch, but the random/mutate functions sometimes yield some very inspiring results.

Massive X: The lack of MIDI learn is frustrating, but there is a lot of cool modulation potential here... provided you like the sound of wavetable synthesis (though user import of custom wavetables would make it better). That said, you can get a lot of mileage out of the free Vital for a similar sort of thing.

Reaktor: It started me down the path of modular synthesis, though now I use VCV Rack instead. But there are some awesome user-made ensembles out there.

Abbey Road 60s Drummer: Superseded by Superior Drummer 3, but I got a lot of mileage out of this for years. In the mapping section of the Late 60s kit, you can enable the "tea towel" hits if you're into that sort of vibe. I like the feel of the hihats when playing them, too. Something about the way they loosen up at higher velocities just does it for me. Add a subharmonic generator to the kick channel and suddenly the kit sounds much more modern and punchy. Charming kit.

Scarbee Vintage Keys: Still a joy to play after all these years. Maybe not the "best" out there today, but I haven't felt the need to look past them for what they do.

Replika: I get some great sparkly, shimmering reverb out of the "diffuse" mode, which I've never been able to get out of a dedicated reverb alone (probably user error, though).

Raum: Not a "realistic" reverb, but still a fun and easy one. I wouldn't use it on orchestral mockups or whatever, but for other sounds it can be just the ticket.

Una Corda: Unique, though the mechanical noises are overbearing until you dial them back. I like to layer with other pianos (or a wurli/rhodes) for character.

Choral/Flair/Phasis: Just nice, simple, straightforward, bread and butter modulation effects.

Battery: Good variety (though of course it depends on what you have available to feed it), but importantly, easy to use. I haven't explored it in depth, but if I just want to load up some samples and bang away, it's a breeze.

FM8: I don't really use it, but I keep it installed because one of these days I'll work up the courage to attempt FM synthesis...


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## AceAudioHQ (Feb 12, 2022)

From Komplete 13 Ultimate I use mostly:

Massive and Massive X
Monark
Retro Machines Mk2
Scarbee Vintage Keys
Analog Dreams
All Abbey Road Drums and Modern & Studio Drummer
The whole Discovery Series ethnic instruments
All Session Guitarists
Scarbee Funk Guitarist
Session Strings Pro 2
Session Horns Pro
Damage
Action Strikes
Rise & Hit
Mallet Flux
Raum
Replika & Replika XT
Pianos
FM8
Reaktor

I have several others also installed but I haven't had the time to dive very deep yet


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## G_Erland (Feb 12, 2022)

Monark sound great, and ive always thought that polyplex has so much potential. Many synths are getting on a bit, but are very solid - im sure youve heard what someone like Lehmkuhl gets out of absynth and FM8? And how is it, can you run maschine software without the box? If so, pretty comprehensive..


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 12, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Yes, I am sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You probably have extra information about Native Instruments attitude, but there's nothing in the statement you linked to that is distinctive or different to any other software or presets. You can't sell on samples, of course, but also you cannot sell licenses to use their sound design. But, at least as stated, you are within your rights to design your own sounds using their software and sell licenses to those.

The issue about your sounds being too similar to theirs is, just as with composition, about intellectual property. It is, again, quite general and not specific to Native Instruments.

But, the big difference could be in behaviour. For all I know, NI might pursue these matters more rigorously or questionably.


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## proxima (Feb 12, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> You probably have extra information about Native Instruments attitude, but there's nothing in the statement you linked to that is distinctive or different to any other software or presets. You can't sell on samples, of course, but also you cannot sell licenses to use their sound design. But, at least as stated, you are within your rights to design your own sounds using their software and sell licenses to those.
> 
> The issue about your sounds being too similar to theirs is, just as with composition, about intellectual property. It is, again, quite general and not specific to Native Instruments.
> 
> But, the big difference could be in behaviour. For all I know, NI might pursue these matters more rigorously or questionably.


My guess is that Crowe is referring to this thread at the NI forum. While unlike a lot of similar threads it does include an NI employee, over the course of the thread that employee adjusts his stance, so I'm not sure I would take it as legal advice about what NI does or does not permit (or even what's enforceable under U.S., German, or other copyright and contract law).

Relatedly, Spectrasonics took a while after user audio was available to clarify their own FAQ that you were allowed to sample patches that use DSP soundsources and your own user audio (but not the samples included with Omnisphere). Interestingly they don't try to claim anything special in particular about their presets, but perhaps because so many of them draw from samples. Third party preset sellers like The Unfinished also have restrictions on creating sample packs from those presets.

To me, it's still unclear whether NI is even trying to prohibit sampling of pure synths like Monark. Again, the license could be interpreted as only trying to restrict the use of audio files (though the word "Instrument" is ambiguous). Then, provided NI does intend to prohibit sampling of Monark, etc, whether that's even legally permissible under contract law (way outside my ability to say, and may even vary by country!). The NI forum thread suggests that they aren't interested in restricting the use of software synths provided you're not using their presets (they would probably say not to even start with their presets). The idea that you might accidentally stumble upon something that sounds like one of their presets is a rather extreme view by NI, but again, I wouldn't necessarily take that forum thread as any kind of official statement.

I'll also say that there are some older NI threads (pre-2010) that quote from an earlier license that sounds more restrictive, but it seems best to focus on the license agreement that NI is using right now and more recent statements. I can see how the overall attitude is a bit off-putting for a sound designer though. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if you asked an IP lawyer and they gave a very risk averse answer not to go anywhere near it.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 12, 2022)

proxima said:


> My guess is that Crowe is referring to this thread at the NI forum. While unlike a lot of similar threads it does include an NI employee, over the course of the thread that employee adjusts his stance, so I'm not sure I would take it as legal advice about what NI does or does not permit (or even what's enforceable under U.S., German, or other copyright and contract law).
> 
> Relatedly, Spectrasonics took a while after user audio was available to clarify their own FAQ that you were allowed to sample patches that use DSP soundsources and your own user audio (but not the samples included with Omnisphere). Interestingly they don't try to claim anything special in particular about their presets, but perhaps because so many of them draw from samples. Third party preset sellers like The Unfinished also have restrictions on creating sample packs from those presets.
> 
> ...



Thank you. I figured there was some history here.

As a basic pragmatic principle, unless there is a very close precedent, but even then not reliably, who would win a contractual dispute is unknown in advance. So lawyers asked for advice have to urge for caution.

The usual disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, although I have taught jurisprudence, but only at the most abstract, philosophical level.


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## proxima (Feb 12, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Thank you. I figured there was some history here.
> 
> As a basic pragmatic principle, unless there is a very close precedent, but even then not reliably, who would win a contractual dispute is unknown in advance. So lawyers asked for advice have to urge for caution.
> 
> The usual disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, although I have taught jurisprudence, but only at the most abstract, philosophical level.


I think the "easiest" answer to this question is knowing whether Spectrasonics has any agreement with NI. If they have no special arrangement, then clearly there's a whole lot that can be done with NI synths to create samples for use in commercial products; if NI had a problem with it, they would have sued Spectrasonics long ago. But it's not so easy at all, because it's hard to imagine NI or Spectrasonics actually saying one way or the other.


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## Crowe (Feb 12, 2022)

There's actually multiple threads and multiple discussions, but aside from the sorta-backtracking of the one NI guy in the linked thread, I've never actually seen an NI representative say it's ok to use their instruments for creating samples to be sold.

The EULA states, verbatim:

"The usage of this Product (in particular samples, instruments and presets) for the creation of a sound library or as a sound library for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product or other musical instrument is strictly prohibited."

I actually see no way to read this as if it's allowed for me to sell the samples I make with the tool. The license actually only grants permission to use NI within musical compositions.

EDIT:
I really don't see how the word 'Instrument' could possibly be ambiguous. An instrument is an instrument. It's something that produces sound. All of NI's synthesizers are instruments. I really don't think there's a lawyer alive that would attempt to fight that definition.


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## Crowe (Feb 12, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> You probably have extra information about Native Instruments attitude, but there's nothing in the statement you linked to that is distinctive or different to any other software or presets. You can't sell on samples, of course, but also you cannot sell licenses to use their sound design. But, at least as stated, you are within your rights to design your own sounds using their software and sell licenses to those.
> 
> The issue about your sounds being too similar to theirs is, just as with composition, about intellectual property. It is, again, quite general and not specific to Native Instruments.
> 
> But, the big difference could be in behaviour. For all I know, NI might pursue these matters more rigorously or questionably.


Sorry, I should've just linked the EULA. I didn't mean to seem like I was just overreacting XD.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 12, 2022)

Crowe said:


> There's actually multiple threads and multiple discussions, but aside from the sorta-backtracking of the one NI guy in the linked thread, I've never actually seen an NI representative say it's ok to use their instruments for creating samples to be sold.
> 
> The EULA states, verbatim:
> 
> ...



And for commercial sound design. Just not the creation of a sound library. I agree, this EULA appears clear. Appears, because it has to be interpreted within the traditions, legislation and precedence of the different legal jurisdictions.

Unless they have a history of enforcing these limitations, they could still be in poor position to mount a case. Clearly, this isn't a EULA covering Kontakt or Reaktor. Or, if it is, it has not been applied to all of the full Kontakt libraries.


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## MartinH. (Feb 12, 2022)

Crowe said:


> "The usage of this Product (in particular samples, instruments and presets) for the creation of a sound library or as a sound library for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product or other musical instrument is strictly prohibited."
> 
> I actually see no way to read this as if it's allowed for me to sell the samples I make with the tool. The license actually only grants permission to use NI within musical compositions.


I would have imagined them to just wanting to prevent low effort repackaging like sampling all FM8 presets into a kontakt library and selling that. I would be surprised if they object to you using FM8 to come up with your own e.g. neurofunk bass sounds that you then resample and sell as Kontakt instruments. I'm 99% sure I've bought stuff that is exactly that. And ultimately it is what got me to actually try out FM8 myself after ignoring it for years. 

I'd like to tag the one NI employee that posted here in the past, but I can't remember his username. Something with Matt and NI maybe?


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## Crowe (Feb 12, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> And for commercial sound design. Just not the creation of a sound library. I agree, this EULA appears clear. Appears, because it has to be interpreted within the traditions, legislation and precedence of the different legal jurisdictions.
> 
> Unless they have a history of enforcing these limitations, they could still be in poor position to mount a case. Clearly, this isn't a EULA covering Kontakt or Reaktor. Or, if it is, it has not been applied to all of the full Kontakt libraries.


Oh yeah, for safety I don't use any of NI's own Sample based sources or wavetables (so the Massives are out) but other than that I meant it when I said that, as far as I'm concerned, NI can go stick it.

Reaktor is also a really bizarre hole in their EULA, because logically none of the user libraries are at all protected by anything.




MartinH. said:


> I would have imagined them to just wanting to prevent low effort repackaging like sampling all FM8 presets into a kontakt library and selling that. I would be surprised if they object to you using FM8 to come up with your own e.g. neurofunk bass sounds that you then resample and sell as Kontakt instruments.


Well. Maybe. But that's not what the License Agreement _says _and I really don't have the luxury of being able to take that gamble and turning out to have been wrong.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 12, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Oh yeah, for safety I don't use any of NI's own Sample based sources or wavetables (so the Massives are out) but other than that I meant it when I said that, as far as I'm concerned, NI can go stick it.
> 
> Reaktor is also a really bizarre hole in their EULA, because logically none of the user libraries are at all protected by anything.



I'm not sure about the last part. But rights can be lost as an unintended context of action and inaction. An unprotected right gets lost. For details, speak to a lawyer!

It's a curiously little discussed topic that consent in civil law is nothing at all like consent in criminal law. Something I have learned to my considerable financial cost.


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## proxima (Feb 12, 2022)

Crowe said:


> The EULA states, verbatim:
> 
> "The usage of this Product (in particular samples, instruments and presets) for the creation of a sound library or as a sound library for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product or other musical instrument is strictly prohibited."
> 
> ...


You left out what starts the section you quote from the EULA:



> In case a sound library is part of the purchased Product the following Sound License Agreement shall apply in addition to the EULA:


Suppose you buy Monark, and only Monark. There is no "sound library" that you purchased, and so the entire section 3.7 doesn't apply. This is what I mean by "Instrument" being ambiguous; it seems entirely possible to buy synths from NI and have 3.7 not apply at all. So "Instrument" here _seems_ to mean an instrument built out of a sound library (a sampled instrument). Now, does NI agree with this interpretation? I don't know. But it's the sense in which "Instrument" can not include a pure synth like Monark.


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## Crowe (Feb 13, 2022)

proxima said:


> You left out what starts the section you quote from the EULA:


You are right, I did leave that out. Apologies.

It's sad that this does remotely make me feel safer, though.

@EvilDragon are you aware of any NI employees here on these forums?


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## EvilDragon (Feb 13, 2022)

There's Yaron and Elpiniki from Kontakt team, with Yaron checking in a bit more often. IIRC there's also Matt from Community/Social team. However none of them would be able to legally clarify your qualm.

I would say as far as sound design/sample packs, something that uses samples in a different matter (=wavetables, so Massive/Massive X) is perfectly fine to create a sample pack with.


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## Sjm90 (Feb 15, 2022)

Just got myself a Maschine Plus recently. Using the expansions included with the package (Lilac Glare is nice) so far but looking to grab more now.


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## Malieus (Apr 20, 2022)

I can ONLY speak for myself when I say purchasing Komplete Ultimate was kind of a waste considering I only use Kontact and the libraries that it comes with and the ones I've added. Honorable mentions are Guitar rig (use it a lot as well) and a few of the plugins. as far as synths I use other instruments like V collection, Reason rack and Korg collection. Everything else just there for decorations or I've just uninstalled them all together.


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## R10k (Apr 20, 2022)

Komplete is a great playground for me. Even if I decide at one moment something isn't good, I tend to keep it installed. I'm constantly revisiting things and finding nuggets of gold in places where I thought there were none. The exception to that would be things like the Symphony series (although I only have Essentials) because I have better elsewhere.

If you've got the space, I'd just install it all and play with it. It might not all be great for orchestral music, but it might inspire you to do something different with your music.


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## Marko Cifer (May 13, 2022)

This is what I use from K13UCE (went from K12 -> K12U -> K13UCE), tried to list them by frequency of use (while grouped by type, at least how I view them):

Kontakt (lets me use free and non-licensed libraries, plus editing some backend stuff)
Ashlight, Straylight, Pharlight (these are all amazing to me, with Ashlight being the one where I import my own stuff into and work with the most, Straylight still blowing my mind sometimes and Pharlight being pretty cool)
Arkhis (absolutely love this one), The Cremona Quartett (now that it doesn't lock up for a while when loading), Symphony Series (some limited use, I find it's a disappointment to me in many respects - tho the percussion is great - but I find uses for it for portions of it and to cover some blind spots in 3rd party library coverage)
Thrill, Mysteria (go back to these a lot, they're IMO very useful as soon as you want to add tension, especially for subtle underscore & build-up)
Massive X (after the UX hurdle was cleared - on a basic level) & Massive (with some post-processing needed IMO), Absynth 5, FM8, Razor (use this one a bit less after Pigments got the additive OSCs), Reaktor 6 Blocks (when I want to utterly fail at modular), Form
Battery 4 (once I got it to load quickly due to some Virtual Machine shenanigans that made it load FOREVER), Damage (a bit less now that I have D2), the Abbey Road drummer libraries (with Cory Pelizzari's modificed patches)
Most of the piano libraries (which one depends on need/mood)
Pretty much all the Session Guitarist libraries, Guitar Rig 6 (funnily enough it gets more use as an FX host for non-guitar stuff)
Some of the Play Series libraries
Some of the FX stuff (used to use Replika XL a lot, but it's been acting buggy for me for a while now, and Raum is something I go back to once in a while)

Honestly, the bundle is a bit of a mixed bag, but I still find plenty of value and get tons of usage out of (portions of) it. And I'm sure I'll have scenarios where I'll use some of the other stuff. I didn't list some stuff that I do occasionally go for, but it's either very rare or it just didn't work in that particular context. There's stuff that'll be in K14UCE that I'm already excited for - provided I'll have the funds for it.

I guess you can think that the primary danger to a bundle like Komplete is that you eventually replace portions of it and thus feel you might have lost some of its value, and that there's a bunch of "older" stuff in it. Though if you've gotten use out of something from the bundle, even if you replace it down the line... you still used it for the time you did. And that older stuff still has some kick to it.

Like a lot of things, it just depends on what your needs and expectations are, and what you're trying to achieve (and thus, how valuable a particular tool is to you).


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## AlphaCen (May 15, 2022)

Kontakt plus various libraries and Maschine (as a drum sampler inside DAW).


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## kitekrazy (May 15, 2022)

I'm getting to the point of not upgrading. It's like having a big house and you never spent time in many of the rooms and the decided to buy a bigger house.


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## Reid Rosefelt (May 15, 2022)

My favorites are
The Session Guitarist Series - Particularly Picked Acoustic - I use these all the time.
The Discovery Series - particularly the Middle Eastern one
Noire
Una Corda
Butch Vig Drums
Straylight/Pharlight
Mallet Flux
Kontakt Library (a lot in there)
Analog Dreams / Ethereal Earth
FM8/Absynth/Massive and Massive X
Abbey Road Series & Studio Drummer
Drumlab
Polyplex
Session Horns Pro - maybe not the best, but I've found use for it.

Raum/Phasis/Choral/Flair
Guitar Rig
Replika

Piano Colors won't be included until KU14, but I like it a lot. 

I have a very high opinion of the Cremona instruments. I just haven't used them because I have other libraries I like better. I need to spend more time with them.

The only thing I really don't like from NI is the Symphony Series. Aside from the percussion (made by Sonuscore) which I think is a very good library. 

One thing few people know is that you can buy Maschine software without buying Maschine (on sale it's $49). If you have an NKS keyboard and load it, a bunch of buttons that were always dark will light for the first time. You can then control many of the Maschine functions from the keyboard. It gives more value to all the expansions that come with Komplete.


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## Spiral Gruv (May 22, 2022)

I use a fair bit of their stuff extensively. I have come to really like their synths - I think they do some pretty original things and people seem to place them all in boxes that are a little constricted (Massive for example can do a lot more than most people use it for).

Massive
Absynth
Razor
Prism
Noire
Una Corda
Ethereal Earth
Analog Dreams
The Gentleman
Kontakt
Monark

Replika
Raum (this is surprisingly slept on)
Supercharger (good for drums on occasion)


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## GregSilver (May 23, 2022)

Spiral Gruv said:


> Raum (this is surprisingly slept on)


Ha, funny  Last weekend I cleaned up my plugins to save myself from distraction. I was also checking several reverbs I had installed (Valhalla Stuff etc.) and decided for Raum and Relab LX480 (after demoing bought it immediately) as my "go-to"s. Raum is awesome. Btw. I also installed Replika again and checked it against other Delays and was so impressed, that I upgraded to XT. Great sound and intuitive UI.


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## Spiral Gruv (May 23, 2022)

GregSilver said:


> Ha, funny  Last weekend I cleaned up my plugins to save myself from distraction. I was also checking several reverbs I had installed (Valhalla Stuff etc.) and decided for Raum and Relab LX480 (after demoing bought it immediately) as my "go-to"s. Raum is awesome. Btw. I also installed Replika again and checked it against other Delays and was so impressed, that I upgraded to XT. Great sound and intuitive UI.


Replika has some magic to it. My favourite delay.


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## Mornats (May 23, 2022)

I keep wanting to buy Valhalla Delay but when I compare it to Replika XT I feel like I'm covered. Valhalla Delay sounds lovely though.


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## GtrString (May 23, 2022)

Kontakt
Kontakt
Kontakt
But recently also the Expansion packs, I use them with Maschine, it's a great ecosystem too! You can also use them in Battery


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## GregSilver (May 23, 2022)

GtrString said:


> Kontakt
> Kontakt
> Kontakt


You know that Kontakt has multi-out?  Just kidding, Kontakt is great (except the UI)!


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