# Anyone actually USE Komplete Kontrol over Kontakt?



## madfloyd

I own an NI S88 and I'm not finding any advantage to using Komplete Kontrol plug-in over Kontakt.

For example:
- Komplete Kontrol doesn't let me move my favorite libraries to the top (like Kontakt does) so it's extra navigation to get to a library. Maybe it's not an issue if you use templates but if you're constantly adding tracks, it's a PITA.

- The plugin GUI loads in a sort of 'collapsed' mode where I always have to click the + button to see RAM usage etc. Minor, but annoying.

- Unless you remember to run Komplete Kontrol outside of your DAW, it doesn't know about any newly added libraries. Minor, but annoying just the same.

- It only shows the light guide for the LAST patch I've loaded. When I switch to another track, the light guide doesn't change (while the instrument I'm playing does). This _could _be lack of support for NKS in Studio One, but you think they could have engineered it so this would be automatic. After all, the light guide is probably the main reason to use Komplete Kontrol (or NI's keyboards for that matter). 

Am I missing something?


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## EvilDragon

madfloyd said:


> This _could _be lack of support for NKS in Studio One



That *is *the lack of deep integration with S1, yes. Works fine in supported hosts. In other hosts, you gotta shift instances manually, no way around it.


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## madfloyd

EvilDragon said:


> That *is *the lack of deep integration with S1, yes. Works fine in supported hosts. In other hosts, you gotta shift instances manually, no way around it.



I assume you're referring only to my 4th (last) item in my complaint list?


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## StillLife

madfloyd said:


> I own an NI S88 and I'm not finding any advantage to using Komplete Kontrol plug-in over Kontakt.
> 
> For example:
> - Komplete Kontrol doesn't let me move my favorite libraries to the top (like Kontakt does) so it's extra navigation to get to a library. Maybe it's not an issue if you use templates but if you're constantly adding tracks, it's a PITA.
> 
> - The plugin GUI loads in a sort of 'collapsed' mode where I always have to click the + button to see RAM usage etc. Minor, but annoying.
> 
> - Unless you remember to run Komplete Kontrol outside of your DAW, it doesn't know about any newly added libraries. Minor, but annoying just the same.
> 
> - It only shows the light guide for the LAST patch I've loaded. When I switch to another track, the light guide doesn't change (while the instrument I'm playing does). This _could _be lack of support for NKS in Studio One, but you think they could have engineered it so this would be automatic. After all, the light guide is probably the main reason to use Komplete Kontrol (or NI's keyboards for that matter).
> 
> Am I missing something?


1) Doesn't KK have a 'favorite'-function? The new MK2 has a knob that lets you mark any library as a favorite.
2) Have to check if that's also the case in Cubase.
3) Does it? To my recollection you only have to run Kontakt outside your DAW, and then it shows up in KK. But I'm not sure.
4) Evildragon answered that. Works like it should in Cubase 9.
For me, the attractions of the KK keyboards (outside their build quality) are: 1) fast browsing, not only with NKS plugins, but even with plugins from other hosts. 2) Mapped parameters for NKS libraries: start tweaking immediately 3) Light guide with keyswitches. And I am still waiting for my MK2 to expand on this with better host integration.


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## Mornats

I use KK over Kontakt most of the time. I use an S61 keyboard in Reaper.

My thoughts about your points are:

1. Yeah, they seem fixed but I've never thought of it as a problem for me as they're categorised by type and stack four across so there's not a great deal of scrolling to do (depending on how many libraries you have of course).
2. Would be great if there was a preference to set that. It's nice on one hand to just focus on the main GUI but I find I swap to full view a fair bit.
3. Yeah, although I always run the standalones every time I add a new library anyway so never really stood out as an issue.
4. This is really annoying actually. Reaper isn't a supported DAW for track focus so I have to click the keyboard icon in KK every time I swap tracks which involves opening up KK every time. You can use the instance button on the keyboard to swap instances but I have a problem where any non-NKS Kontakt library/instrument gets given a name of "Komplete Kontrol" (or something generic like that) so I can't tell which is which. I raised it on the NI forums to request the option to rename the KK instances so that I can find them but I was offered the solution of saving every non-NKS library as a snapshot instead. That's far too much work for all of the libraries I have s I definitely think this needs improving.

However, the plus points for me are the chord modes, lightguide (for instrument mappings as well as teaching me scales), the ability to quickly browse through instruments to find what I want and the 8 mapped controls on the knobs. So it's worth it for me to use KK but there are some annoying things about it.


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## Mornats

StillLife said:


> 1) Doesn't KK have a 'favorite'-function? The new MK2 has a knob that lets you mark any library as a favorite.



It does in the software but not on the Mk1 keyboards. I think the Mk2 ones may have a hardware favourites button. You could browse using the Maschine to select the instrument, use the favourite button on there and still play it on the keyboard. You can swap between the different hardware for common features quite well. Maybe more so with the Mk2 keyboards and Mk3 Maschine.


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## madfloyd

So two of you have mentioned quick browsing. Can you elaborate on that? Regardless if I go by Category or Vendor it seems much slower. Are you using mouse and (computer) keyboard or the S-keyboard?


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## Mornats

I'm using the keyboard. The 8 knobs let you drill down into the categories quite quickly. Then you can use the up and down browse buttons to load in one patch after the other. I tend to play the melody or whatever on one hand and move through the presets with the other (sometimes changing what I'm playing to suit the new sound).


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## Stevie

I wonder if it will be possible to provide full features integration for Studio One in the feature. Makes me wonder, because Softube made the Console 1 integration in Studio One available sooner, than for Cubase. 
So the means to make it possible are there...


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## EvilDragon

It will mainly depend on the percentage of NI's userbase using S1 vs other hosts, I'd say, plus how difficult the integration would be to make.


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## polypx

Komplete Kontrol is a lame wrapper in my opinion... Kore all over again.


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## Lindon

polypx said:


> Komplete Kontrol is a lame wrapper in my opinion... Kore all over again.


...hmm and this from a guy who ships NKS-ready products - We're thinking of going down this track - so tell me is it worth it? Does the Badge add anything?


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## EvilDragon

NKS is definitely a nice workflow enabler... but I would say it's not geared towards huge projects, because if you have 200 instances of something, the wrapper, no matter how thin, will take a lot of additional resources. It's great for electronic music production for sure, not so much for gigantic orchestral templates.

I'd say it doesn't hurt to make products with NKS in mind - and NI definitely wants to see as many NKS-enabled products as possible out there.


BTW, polypx - a wrapper is kinda necessary to do the stuff that NI is doing. Let's consider that each Komplete product has separate NKS implementation (LightGuide, arp, chord, scale modes, etc.). Whenever one thing needs fixing, or a new feature needs introducing, you'd have to repeat it for each and every Komplete product. This is what buried Kore, with its "integrated engines" scheme - it was just too much work to maintain the codebase. So, having a one-stop-shop solution that is used for interfacing NI's software with NI's hardware makes a ton more sense - it's much simpler.

Plus, implementing the NKS SW-HW interface to each individual Komplete product would make certain things impossible - like being able to filter through ALL the Komplete (and 3rd party) product patches from one place. So no, KK is not a lame wrapper. It's a workflow enabler - but not for each and every type of workflow.


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## polypx

Yeah Mario is right, it does add something, but only for certain users. NI and a number of our customers really like NKS, but for me personally it's extra baggage and gets in the way of my composition process. It's easy to add the NKS support though, so it's there in all our stuff. 

NKS functions as a kind of straight jacket on the user interface ... you can be very creative with graphics, have different types of controls for different things, hide "expert" things in menus, etc. provide FEEDBACK.
Then for NKS, everything comes back to a 1990s knob with 8 characters.


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## EvilDragon

Not 8 characters anymore with mkII keyboards. Same display as Maschine Studio/mkIII, so can use somewhat longer names now.


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## polypx

Still waiting for my mkII to arrive


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## Reid Rosefelt

madfloyd said:


> So two of you have mentioned quick browsing. Can you elaborate on that? Regardless if I go by Category or Vendor it seems much slower. Are you using mouse and (computer) keyboard or the S-keyboard?


With the new 1.91 version of Komplete Kontrol software, around 6 GB of samples can be stored on your hard drive. You need to get an email from NI with a serial number in order to download them. Once this is set up you can hear the sounds instantly as you move through your presets using the knob and buttons on your controller. You don't have to actually load or play the sounds. This works with the original and new Komplete Kontrol keyboards.

By the way, this isn't just a Kontakt thing--it's NKS. It works for non-Kontakt instruments like AAS's Strum GS-2 that have NKS.


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## Reid Rosefelt

StillLife said:


> 1) Doesn't KK have a 'favorite'-function? The new MK2 has a knob that lets you mark any library as a favorite.



Yes, the original keyboard will favorite a preset if you push the "Shift" button at the same time as you press in the knob. Do it again and it will "unfavorite."


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## krops

By the way: does anyone know if there's a way to set a minimum size for the KK window? If I stumble upon a Diva patch, the window resizes to fit the Diva GUI (and it opens at 150% at default). This gives me a nice, long preset list on the left (in the library pane, below "All instruments", "types" and "modes").
Depending on the device loaded, though, that list can be TINY (FM8, for instance), and navigating this list is cumbersome - especially since there is no previous/next button - just the tiny scroll bar. Even browsing with the up/down keys on the computer keyboard is convoluted, because you still have to double click in order to actually load the instrument.

Uh, OK. So I just updated KK to the latest version, and now it can't load a single sound, because it can't find any plugins...? I've re-added my plugins folder and rescanned, but nothing shows up in the "manager pane" in preferences/plugins.


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## madfloyd

TigerTheFrog said:


> With the new 1.91 version of Komplete Kontrol software, around 6 GB of samples can be stored on your hard drive. You need to get an email from NI with a serial number in order to download them. Once this is set up you can hear the sounds instantly as you move through your presets using the knob and buttons on your controller. You don't have to actually load or play the sounds. This works with the original and new Komplete Kontrol keyboards.
> 
> By the way, this isn't just a Kontakt thing--it's NKS. It works for non-Kontakt instruments like AAS's Strum GS-2 that have NKS.



Can someone shed some light on how to get this email from NI?


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## krops

madfloyd said:


> Can someone shed some light on how to get this email from NI?


I found this mail in my inbox; I didn't pay it any mind when I first got it, but found out just now that I needed it to get access to the previews.

Maybe search for it in your inbox (and spam folder?) The subject of the mail is "IMPORTANT: How to activate the new sound previews feature"


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## Reid Rosefelt

It should have come if you have registered with NI. 

If you can't find it in your spam folder, then you are going to have to get in touch with NI. You can try with customer service, but I would also recommend posting on their forum or using social media. That might get you a speedier response.


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## j_kranz

It hasn't yet replaced Kontakt in my template... HOWEVER, for Reaktor instruments (Form/Prism/Razor etc.) I love it


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## mac

I do. I hate working without the lightguide, and the controller mappings are pretty good 80% of the time.


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## Reid Rosefelt

I generally use Komplete Kontrol because of all the advantages of using it with my NI keyboard, particularly with with NKS instruments. With NKS it makes them much easier to use, as for example quickly exploring presets in a synth. 

But even with ones that don't have NKS, it's easy to create templates with the Controller Editor, so I have the light guides and the controller knobs set up the way I want. There are also third party companies that offer NKS-like features for synths like Omnisphere, and I've taken advantage of them. 

But for certain instruments Kontakt works out better for me.


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## ChazC

Well I like the lightguide and scale functions (I'm a terrible pianist!) but I've always found it really cumbersome to get 3rd party libraries up and running in Kontakt. I'm always left thinking "there's got to be an easier way than this". I'm convinced I'm not using KK correctly. Can anyone point me in the direction of an 'idiots guide' to using Kontakt within KK?!

Even using registered libraries is a pain - for example yesterday I had a use for Action Strings but I had to load my saved blank Kontakt in manually so I could get to the Kontakt browser to then select AS, which I'm sure must be a long winded way of going about it? The only 'quick' way I've found is once I've actually loaded a library up in Kontakt is then save that as a favourite in KK.


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## Reid Rosefelt

ChazC said:


> Well I like the lightguide and scale functions (I'm a terrible pianist!) but I've always found it really cumbersome to get 3rd party libraries up and running in Kontakt. I'm always left thinking "there's got to be an easier way than this". I'm convinced I'm not using KK correctly. Can anyone point me in the direction of an 'idiots guide' to using Kontakt within KK?!
> 
> Even using registered libraries is a pain - for example yesterday I had a use for Action Strings but I had to load my saved blank Kontakt in manually so I could get to the Kontakt browser to then select AS, which I'm sure must be a long winded way of going about it? The only 'quick' way I've found is once I've actually loaded a library up in Kontakt is then save that as a favourite in KK.



I'm not sure why you can't get Action Strings as it's part of Komplete and comes right up in the KK interface. If you load KK, it's there, along with all the NKS instruments. Just push the "browse" button on your NI controller.

In terms of working in KK with third party non-NKS instruments, I don't know how much you know already, but perhaps this video will help you.


Do you have track templates in your DAW? That's generally how I handle things. I load up KK, then load a VST into it. Then I save it as a track template. The next time it's just one click and the whole thing comes up, just the way I want it.


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## ChazC

Thanks for that. Yeah, I'm beginning to think there's something a bit screwy with my install tbh. I'm not sure KK is picking up everything it should be in it's index.


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## galactic orange

Komplete Kontrol vs Kontakt question here. I've got a Logic template of OT Berlin Orchestra Inspire with all instrument samples purged. The Logic project using Kontakt instances comes in at about 754 MB. Okay. Then I converted all the tracks to Komplete Kontrol so I can use the browser and light guide. The Logic Project with the same number of instruments is 4.02 GB. Am I doing something wrong here? Does the Komplete Kontrol wrapper use that much memory?

UPDATE: Logic was set to save up to 100 undo steps and every time I loaded or purged samples it was remembering that state as a step. So I deleted all the undo data and the file was back to a reasonable size.


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## EvilDragon

KK itself doesn't use that much memory per instance IIRC, but it's complicating multiple instruments usage - as KK only supports single instruments. I mean, you CAN use multis in Kontakt, but you lose the benefit of LightGuide...


Not to mention OT instruments are just not optimized very well internally...


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## galactic orange

EvilDragon said:


> Not to mention OT instruments are just not optimized very well internally...


Ain't that the truth...


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## galactic orange

I updated my post earlier about large project file sizes. However I found an even more substantial issue is loading time of Kontakt vs KK. My samples purged, 30 instrument Kontakt orchestral template loads in about 26 seconds and takes over 2 minutes when the Komplete Kontrol template is loaded. Mac Mini 2.6 quad-core i7. That’s quite a difference in load times.


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## GeneraStudios

I only use Komplete Kontrol if the library i'm using heavily utilizes colored keys, at least inside Logic. However when i'm using Maschine I use the dedicated software which allows me to also take advantage of the Komplete Kontrol functionality. Its nice to have the extra functionality on the keyboard, but 99% of the time when i'm playing i'm writing to record so its just as easy to hit record a second time with latch enabled and move some controls around on the mouse. I like using the mouse to move controls around because you get to use the GUI instead of navigating through page windows. 

In Logic I have some of the same issues you have, having to click the + to see advanced controls (same in Maschine), having to open up the application to load new libraries. I don't really move my libraries around since I use the search feature, but the light guide seems to always work (in and out of Logic). I'm guessing the idea of the collapsed viewer is because Komplete Kontrol and Maschine are trying to streamline everything, and the average user probably just uses presets with minimal tweaks (kind of the whole point of the browsing functionality, to find presets easier and tweak quickly).


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