# If you are planning to build a PC now, wait for Threadripper



## ranaprathap (Aug 6, 2017)

From what we are seeing from this video, the performance beats out intel's X299 platform in multithreaded work loads and hence if you are planning to build a PC now/near future, just wait until the rest of the benchmarks are out as it appears the AMDs' threadripper is offering more value.


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## chimuelo (Aug 6, 2017)

What pushed AMD over the threshold of acceptance is how Supermicro is all over AMD with incredibly powerful designs with TBs of RAM.
I am waiting for 2018 and see what they come up with.

Not knocking their designs really, but they're focusing on market segments by releasing drivers for certain gaming and Data mining markets.

Which shows good support but their memory controller makes buying RAM a hassle.
But on the other hand Intel is flooding the market with so many immature products now the original 1800X even with its memory controller issues more mature and with more support.

I'm dying for their onboard GPU Vega CPUs.
Zen Cores are fantastic, great cache design, but I want Rack mounted boards.
These consumer models are Tower only due to RAM DIMMs placement.
I want the bad ass 6 core on a board for servers.
DIMMs parallel with PCI Slots like this ASRock Rack board below.


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## Andrew Aversa (Aug 6, 2017)

These synthetic workloads are not necessarily applicable to DAW work; only way to know for sure is audio benchmarking...


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## ranaprathap (Aug 7, 2017)

zircon_st said:


> These synthetic workloads are not necessarily applicable to DAW work; only way to know for sure is audio benchmarking...


Yes. That's why we need to wait for DAW benchmarks before making the jump. That was the case with Ryzen 7 too. 
What I meant to say was to wait before buying into Intel now because AMD may have something great in store.


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## Phryq (Aug 7, 2017)

Personally I'm waiting for 10nm... which I'm guessing Intel will do first, though I'd rather support AMD.


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## chimuelo (Aug 7, 2017)

We're to the point where Intel can't keep raising watts to sell their latest designs.
And AMD needs a new memory controller instead of selective firmware fixes.

I'm happy because of the price drops. 
I bought enough parts for 3 x PC Slaves w/ spare parts.
My main DAW is where I want something new.

I'm reading the builds guys here are using for recording and editing.
Thinking my live rigs are great Slaves.
It's the 128GB 6 core machines I haven't had experience with.
Might be time to let a pro build me one.
But not until the 2018 battles begin.
That will be the REAL competition.
All we've seen is AMD forcing Intel to dump everything into the markets.
And AMD using more Cores to gain market share.

Good for us if we're patient types.


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## jamwerks (Aug 7, 2017)

Still waiting to hear more about the I9-7900x & 7820x!


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## ranaprathap (Aug 7, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Still waiting to hear more about the I9-7900x & 7820x!


It comes with its troubles I should say....


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## jamwerks (Aug 7, 2017)

ranaprathap said:


> It comes with its troubles I should say....


Thanks for that! Some good info there. Seems not everything about 2066 is up and working, but for our use (daw or farm machine) everything might just be there?!


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## Publius (Aug 7, 2017)

Sure was easier when you went from a 286 to a 386 to a 486...  I do find it hard to keep up with the byzantine product naming/feature mixes from intel, and now it looks like amd might be worth looking at, so yet another educational process. I have always tended to buy sort of one generation behind current to get a price-performance sweet spot, and it looks like now another reason to wait is that the leading edge seems to be in too much of a state of flux. Yes, dude could have been less rambly. Reminds me of the old saying 'the more the writer works, the less the reader works. So, now I will check out this whole 'treadripper' business. It is convenient to have commentators as the vendor marketing materials are designed to obscure product weaknesses and focus on image over substance.


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## Publius (Aug 7, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Thanks for that! Some good info there. Seems not everything about 2066 is up and working, but for our use (daw or farm machine) everything might just be there?!


I think he was more upset about what could have been than what was, so yes, its worth investigating with your specific needs in mind. Also, as in all these matters, price is a big part of it.

For me, I keep thinking about what it may take to cool a 12 core processor and whether those extra 6 cores give me enough benefit to justify the cost. I feel my own pc would best benefit from more ram and faster access to ssd devices. So not so much a cpu emphasis.


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## haraldgalaen (Aug 7, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> I'm happy because of the price drops.
> I bought enough parts for 3 x PC Slaves w/ spare parts.



May I ask what spec you have for your PC-slaves?


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## chimuelo (Aug 7, 2017)

haraldgalaen said:


> May I ask what spec you have for your PC-slaves?


http://vi-control.net/community/threads/1u-pc-slave.64059/


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## chimuelo (Oct 31, 2017)

64 Cores, 256MB Cache, Octo RAM.
Would love an 8 Core version w/ Vega iGPU, Quad Channel RAM.

I trust these Cannucks. Plus they skate really well.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="fr" dir="ltr">Ne le répétez à personne, mais les CPU EPYC de 2e gen d&#39;AMD auront 64 cores, 256 Mo (!) de L3, 8x DDR4-3200 et 128 lignes de PCIe 4. </p>&mdash; Canard PC Hardware (@CPCHardware) <a href="">October 31, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


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## Phryq (Nov 1, 2017)

What are the chances of a thread-ripper ITX


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## chimuelo (Nov 1, 2017)

Zen Master says we’ll see...


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## EvilDragon (Nov 1, 2017)

That one definitely won't come cheap. And I wonder if it'll even work at 3 GHz per core...

We still need those GHz to be closer to 5, not to 3, for heavy single-core tasks, as most plugins still rely on THAT.


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## chimuelo (Nov 1, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> That one definitely won't come cheap. And I wonder if it'll even work at 3 GHz per core...
> 
> We still need those GHz to be closer to 5, not to 3, for heavy single-core tasks, as most plugins still rely on THAT.



Totally agree but AMD Always cranks up per core speeds on their 16/8 and 4 Core variants.
3000MHz is what I want for L1-L3 Cache.
Quad Zen 2 @ 4.4ghz with Vega iGPU.
Four of them in a rack would be nice in 2 years when I build another Slave Rack.


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## Andrew Aversa (Nov 1, 2017)

Intel's Xeon Phi has 64 cores and more like 1.3ghz per core... seems unlikely AMD would be able to leapfrog that...


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## chimuelo (Nov 2, 2017)

Actually Intel uses an entirely different shared cache.
AMD has always had the best cache since they acquired Alpha.
On a Tyan Tiger using dual Athlon MPs it packed more FX than dual Xeons on Intel Server Boards.
Granted these are time based FX, but usually tax CPUs the most.

Both companies last move using x86 and 10/7nm fabs is larger faster cache.
Cache drags down a CPU on more Cores, speeds up work on less.
Which is why the 6 Core Intel’s whoop 8 Core Ryzens.
Plus AMDs memory controller is slow and finicky unless Samsung chips are used.

I got lots of tracks on a 1.8GHz CPU.
It gagged on soft synths and FX terribly though.
Which is why using UAD or Scope DSP for FX is a better upgrade than a new PC.

I’m still sticking with Intel.
Single core performance is my preference.
I just wish some noticeable gains would occur.
i6700 was a little jump but since then, it’s marketing hype and extra glue.


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## Leandro Marcos (Nov 2, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Still waiting to hear more about the I9-7900x & 7820x!


my eyes have been on the 7820x for weeks. Yeah, it's kind of pricey, but you can almost get the performance of an i9 for half the price, and you will have a cpu that hopefully will stand well against others for many years.


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## jamwerks (Nov 2, 2017)

Agreed, about to (finally) go that route myself. Too bad about the pcie lane limitation of 28 I believe. Hoping to have gpu + raydat + 3xM.2 with nothing sharing lanes.


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## jazz72piano (Nov 3, 2017)

sorry if this is OT, but I'm wishing for a 'filter' in regards to these threads. for us newbies, who are building, it might help if we know if the technology discussed is about a main daw or a slave build. jus' saying. i'm concerned with adding a pc to my iMac/logic rig. so all I'm asking, is there a way to filter this information in regards to above stated, or should one just deal with reading through it all? it's all very educational,(thanks!!) but I'm just having trouble deciphering this detail! Really though thanks to so many who have put in their cents (more like $s!!)

there's so much much new tech coming, but i decided to go with i7 7700k, all SSDs, 64gb for my first pc slave build. I'm also a live performer (keyboardist) very intrigued about building an AMD live rig to host Omnisphere (specifically keyscape) or would the latest MBP with external SSD be enough for this? hoping also to add this to composing rig (multifunctional). Chim, should i wait until 2018? just bought the rd2000 and its cool how it's such a great controller and has built-in audio interface. trying to minimize cables as i don't have a roadie yet


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## Phryq (Nov 3, 2017)

I've been thinking of the 7800x... a good balance of cores / clock and TDP methinks? And you can get it in an mITX motherboard. Nothing will beat that any time soon, right? I was really hope to build after the next die-shrink, but it seems that'd never gonna happen.


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## EvilDragon (Nov 3, 2017)

Well, TDP is not good on that one. If it were 95W, it'd be perfect. i7-8700K is a better deal for a bit lower price. Higher per-core clock, too. Decently higher, goes up to 4.7 GHz turbo. That's the one to go with, I think.


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## Leandro Marcos (Nov 3, 2017)

Phryq said:


> I've been thinking of the 7800x... a good balance of cores / clock and TDP methinks? And you can get it in an mITX motherboard. Nothing will beat that any time soon, right? I was really hope to build after the next die-shrink, but it seems that'd never gonna happen.


I've been watching that one as well. Since I want to build a PC that will allow me to upgrade to 128gb RAM in the future, my cpu search was narrowed to the 6800k, the 7800x and the 7820x. The 6800k is "old". And if you compare the 7800x against the 7820x, the last one knocks the first one by far in almost every aspect. Yes, it's more expensive, but will last longer specs wise.


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## Symfoniq (Nov 3, 2017)

I waited for Threadripper reviews to drop before building my new system, but ended up going with the 7820x.

So far, my 7820x with ASRock Taichi motherboard is the best system I've ever built (and I've built about a dozen). Incredibly fast CPU and I/O, completely silent, never crashes, no sleep or wake issues, runs cool (with the caveat that I don't overclock).


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## ranaprathap (Nov 3, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Well, TDP is not good on that one. If it were 95W, it'd be perfect. i7-8700K is a better deal for a bit lower price. Higher per-core clock, too. Decently higher, goes up to 4.7 GHz turbo. That's the one to go with, I think.


I second this opinion. 6 core 12 threads at 4.7 at that price is actually a good option.


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## Phryq (Nov 3, 2017)

Right, my only problem is I'm trying to build something small, and there exists an mITX board supporting the 7820x and 64gb of ram.

And 8700k would mean I'd have to go Micro-ATX... That said, the TDP difference could mean a smaller cooler.


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## EvilDragon (Nov 3, 2017)

Phryq said:


> That said, the TDP difference could mean a smaller cooler.



Exactly. You don't want 145 W TDP in mITX.


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## Phryq (Nov 3, 2017)

Well, mITX would mean there's actually more room for cooling. I'm thinking for example, to have the radiator *outside* of the case, for best airflow.


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## Symfoniq (Nov 3, 2017)

Phryq said:


> Well, mITX would mean there's actually more room for cooling. I'm thinking for example, to have the radiator *outside* of the case, for best airflow.



Have you looked into the Fractal Design Define C? I used this case on my latest build, and though it supports an ATX motherboard, it's much smaller than most ATX cases. It is also virtually silent.


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## Phryq (Nov 3, 2017)

Way too big (I was looking at making a 5L case).

Sager makes a 4L laptop with an 8700k, 64gb ram, 960 Pros... it's tempting to just buy that... though builder is so much more fulfilling.


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## LinusW (Nov 3, 2017)

Threadripper has no Thunderbolt, I can't go back to USB audio interfaces.


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## Phryq (Nov 3, 2017)

LinusW said:


> Threadripper has no Thunderbolt, I can't go back to USB audio interfaces.



Really? I have USB, and no problems with it. What is the practical advantage of TB?


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## LinusW (Nov 4, 2017)

Phryq said:


> Really? I have USB, and no problems with it. What is the practical advantage of TB?


No bottlenecks, low latency as PCIe interfaces.


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## Leandro Marcos (Nov 4, 2017)

Symfoniq said:


> I waited for Threadripper reviews to drop before building my new system, but ended up going with the 7820x.
> 
> So far, my 7820x with ASRock Taichi motherboard is the best system I've ever built (and I've built about a dozen). Incredibly fast CPU and I/O, completely silent, never crashes, no sleep or wake issues, runs cool (with the caveat that I don't overclock).


What CPU cooler did you choose for the 7820x?


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## Threedog (Nov 6, 2017)

LinusW said:


> Threadripper has no Thunderbolt, I can't go back to USB audio interfaces.


Which CPU do you have? Do you have a PCIe expansion card for Thunderbolt or an onboard slot on the mainboard? I'm looking forward for an UAD interface, and I have an Intel Core i7 5820K in my rig with no Thunderbold slot on the MB and don't know if the Apollo works with a PCIe card...


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## Damarus (Nov 16, 2017)

As mentioned briefly earlier by EvilDragon, most everything in our DAWs is still based around single-threaded performance, not multi threaded. Your best bet now is the 8700k or 7700k, which would also allow you to keep Thunderbolt.


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## EvilDragon (Nov 16, 2017)

Well, I didn't QUITE say that. Multicores still matter, since most DAWs parallelize processing of tracks that can be parallelized (i.e. any tracks that are their own entities and aren't sending to or receiving from other tracks, can be parallelized - even those with sends/receives can be parallelized, but then the whole chain is put on one core, along with all the sends/receives). It's just that for processing of what is _loaded _on those tracks, single core muscle is still king. So, the more cores the better, and the higher the frequency of all cores, even better.

Once we get to 16 non-hyperthreaded cores at above 4 GHz, things will be pretty nice.


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## Damarus (Nov 16, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Well, I didn't QUITE say that. Multicores still matter, since most DAWs parallelize processing of tracks that can be parallelized (i.e. any tracks that are their own entities and aren't sending to or receiving from other tracks, can be parallelized - even those with sends/receives can be parallelized, but then the whole chain is put on one core, along with all the sends/receives). It's just that for processing of what is _loaded _on those tracks, single core muscle is still king. So, the more cores the better, and the higher the frequency of all cores, even better.
> 
> Once we get to 16 non-hyperthreaded cores at above 4 GHz, things will be pretty nice.



Lol and hopefully not a mini heater next to our desk at that power


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## EvilDragon (Nov 16, 2017)

Exactly. All of that in under 95W TDP would be absolutely splendid.


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## MarcusD (Nov 16, 2017)

I'm about to do a new build, going to wait until next week see if the price comes down more on the 8700k or 8700. Quite tempted by that single core performance!


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## chimuelo (Nov 16, 2017)

Prices won’t be coming down as a shortage of Silicon is going to raise costs.
By how much I can only speculate.
But I would definitely jump on the year end shelf clearing distributors are going to be looking to dump.
Waiting for 2018 will mean higher RAM @ CPU costs.
SSDs and mobos seem to be priced at normal costs.

I just grabbed a pair of i7 7700k CPUs for 540 USD from Micro Center, pick up only.
I don’t even need them but to avoid consumer/gaming boards I’m hoping since WS Boards aren’t even available for Z170s (discontinued by Intel) the Z/H 270s should get some Server/WS Boards by next summer...


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## EvilDragon (Nov 16, 2017)

Shortage of silicon my ass. Look at all those sandy beaches! Tons of silicon right there. :D


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## chimuelo (Nov 16, 2017)

A certain species of Sand Flea is endangered.

http://electroiq.com/blog/2017/07/silicon-wafer-shortage-starts-in-2018/


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## Symfoniq (Dec 22, 2017)

Alexandre said:


> could you give your specs? I'd love to get your different parts and go with what works! I am on cubase 9.5 with a rme babyface. Thanks !



CPU: Intel 7820x
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S
Motherboard: ASRock X299 Taichi
RAM: 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 MHz
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro SSDs and Samsung 960 Pro NVMe SSDs
Power Supply: Seasonic Prime 750 Titanium
Case: Fractal Design Define C
Case Fans: 2 x Noctua NF-A14 PWM 140mm Case Fan, 1 x Noctua NF-S12A PWM 120mm Case Fan
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 SC2 iCX (you might not need a video card this powerful—I'm driving multiple 4K monitors)
Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro

The above system is extremely quiet (probably quieter than either of the "cheese grater" Mac Pros I used to own). The CPU and case fans are configured to ramp up with system temperatures, but generally rotate at around 600-800 RPM. The case sits under my desk, and the fans are rarely audible with the quiet profile that I've configured in the visual BIOS. The fans on the video card and power supply are both "hybrid" and don't rotate at all unless load on the component is high. So most of the time, neither the power supply nor video card contribute any noise to the system.


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## LFO (Dec 23, 2017)

So I am a technical pre-sales guy for IBM mainframes. (I don't work for IBM, but rather a partner.) I have to say, it is soooooo refreshing to hear PC (Intel/AMD) gurus understand the benefits of single threaded processing. I deal with distributed systems administrators all the time who cannot grasp this concept. While mainframe processing is very different for what we need in the audio world, a good bit of the overall system design applies. IBM mainframes have been running at 5+ gigahertz for years using single threaded processing and just in recent years added the option for multi-threaded if it is needed. It sounds like PCs will do the same; offering both single and multi threaded processing depending on what the user needs. Is this correct?

So, a question for you all as you clearly know this space better than I do. How does vector processing apply, if at all, to a typical DAW user? It seems to me it could apply, but I never assume. While I'm at it, quantum processing will be introduced in the next generation of IBM z (at least that's the rumor and I've seen it working in a lab). Do you see quantum processing benefiting the audio space? I would imagine so, but I haven't taken time to think through exactly how it might outside of generalizations.


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## MarcusD (Dec 28, 2017)

Well, I waited and the prices to drop over the holidays (and they did) but they were not persuasive enough for me to go for the 8700k. Even with the 6800k retailing around £280 the x99 MOBOs are still SO expensive. I priced up two systems and the turned out to be pretty much the same around £980 + mark.

SO. What did I end up buying? Well, even though the DAW performance won't quite match the i7 line, I bit the bullet and picked up a Ryzen 1800x + 32GB RAM (2 dims) + MOBO + AIO Cooler for just over £650. Amazon currently has the best deals for 1800x at £299. A little dubious about buying from Amazon... But hey, saved ALOT of cash.

Be interesting to see how well it works with Cubase 9.5 and a MR816x. Can't really find many RECENT discussions on the Ryzen builds. So I'll let you guys know how I get on next week after the parts arrive and I do the build.

EDIT: This build isn't purely for Music, I do a lot of video and graphics too so it seemed more logical for me to get 1800x.


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