# Notation of Tremolo gradients ideas.



## Nikolai Winge (Jan 22, 2018)

Hey all.

I am looking to find a ggod way of notating a tremolo gradient system in finale That would save tine and be a Good standard According to conventions,

Like fx :

A tremolo fast as possible (Or unmeasured) going to (Gradual transformation/modulation) slowest and to Zero

Image 1:
Trem. rit. line - Easy to work within finale special lines . But to use Ritardando like this is not good since it is associated with a general slowing down of tempo.







image 2:
A more precise notation maybe . The Z under the note means unmeasured tremolo.'
This one is time consuming to make . Grace notes placing them and bracket lines placement and getting everything placed properly , '





Sorry the speed This example is backwards in all Its haste to Get it in here hehe


I am wondering if some of you have some effective solution that I can use in finale . Since I am going to use this technique quite alot in the piece I am working on .
This technique of slowing down a tremolo to nothing or speeding up like a fibbonaci sequence can be used on many a instrument and for percussionists also

Rallentando is also a possible word to use but I think it is to closely related to Ritardando. I noticed that Beri used rallentando on the harp once in : Circles by berio. but then what to do when speeding up

Any good ideas ?


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## Kent (Jan 22, 2018)

“Sim.”


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## Nikolai Winge (Jan 22, 2018)

Hey thank you kmaster but you would have to explain a bit more than that. Sim is good for a repetetive technique but not when the tempo of the tecgnique should be modulated like in this case . Then I could write slow to fast ofcourse:
View attachment 11418


So how would you incorporate sim into some of my notational examples


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## Saxer (Jan 22, 2018)

I would simply write what I want i.e. _fast tremolo _followed by _slow down tremolo _to _end tremolo. _I think it's easier than interpreting graphics. At least for recording sessions I would write that way. Might be different if it's for score publishing.


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## Nikolai Winge (Jan 22, 2018)

yes thats possible - But thats like 3 stages - From fast tremolo - zero tremolo or a Ø symbol


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## windshore (Jan 22, 2018)

I agree with Saxer. There is no established method of writing it so coming up with a novel approach my seem good, but nobody will understand it. Better to use plain english.


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## Nikolai Winge (Jan 22, 2018)

fast - medium - slow- zero is a possible grading yes


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## Nikolai Winge (Jan 22, 2018)

If one creates a standard and explaind it in the beginning of the score I guess it would be ok . But yes a line with gradients is a possible solution. I


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## JJP (Jan 22, 2018)

Count me as another vote for the text explanation like "unmeasured tremolo of varying speed" on the first instance. After that you can use "sim." if it seems clearer or no text at all.

You can notate the fanned/feathered beams with consistent spacing between the note stems to show the change in speed.

The beams indicate the speed, so the spacing can stay consistent and still be clear. Three beams visually conveys the concept a bit better in most time signatures.




This is much easier to notate because you can create a tuplet of the duration needed and then fan the beams. Plus it copies and transposes reasonably well with a minimum of adjusting. You'll only have to redo the beams from scratch if the stems flip.

If you want to hide the noteheads, choose a blank character that gives you the spacing you desire and then use it consistently.

Fanned beams also will eliminate the need for the "z", which may not be recognized by all musicians in this context.

The beamed example you gave seems backwards. The beams should converge at the slowest point. In your example the beams converge, but the spacing gets tighter seeming to indicate more speed. That is confusing for a reader.


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## Light and Sound (Jan 22, 2018)

Edit: never mind just noticed you specifically didn't want a tempo change!


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## Mundano (Jan 22, 2018)

i have an idea (copyrighted)  , built on your own:

from terminology > ritardando > rallentando > then comes --->

*TREMOLLANDO*, which means "apply tremolo". The question is "in which form?", there it is:


*tremollando <* (means tremolo *from slow to fast*)
*tremollando > *(means tremolo *from fast to slow*)
*tremollando ø< *(means tremolo *from zero to fast*)
*tremollando >ø* (means tremolo *from fast to zero*)
*tremollando ><* (means tremolo *from fast to slow to fast*)
*tremollando <>* (means tremolo *from slow to fast to slow*)
*tremollando >ø< *(means tremolo *from fast to zero to fast*)
*tremollando <ø>* (means tremolo *from slow to fast to suddenly zero to suddenly fast to slow*)
*tremollando <tr> *(means tremolo *from slow to fast to trill to fast to slow*)
*tremollando >≠* (means tremolo *from fast to slow and finishing with fast tremolo*, as a coda of the tremolo, u know what i mean? like a cut)
...and so on
*tremollando > sul tasto* (means tremolo *from fast to slow ending in sul tasto*)
*tremollando < sul tasto* (means tremolo *from slow to fast ending in sul tasto*)

*tremollando > sul pont* (means tremolo *from fast to slow ending in sul ponticello*)

*tremollando < sul pont* (means tremolo *from slow to fast ending in sul ponticello*)

and variations...:
*tremollando sul tasto <* (first apply sul tasto and then transforming in tremolo from slow to fast)
*tremollando sul pont <* (etc.)

*tremollando sul tasto >* (etc.)
*tremollando sul pont >* (etc.)
general example, violin:






here the note *A* played by a violin would start _*ppp*_ and end *mf* in _*sul tasto*_. During the duration of the note *A* the tremolo would be applied in this form, without affecting the *tempo* of the score/music/song:
*tremollando <>* (means tremolo *from slow to fast to slow*)


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## Wallander (Jan 22, 2018)

I’d suggest writing this explicitly, with groups of notes of a subsequently decreasing duration (using triplets and dotted notes if necessary). No grace notes, but using exact note durations that add up to fill out the bar properly. Your intentions will be crystal clear to any trained performer, and explicitly notated tremolos are very common so it wouldn’t be in any way unusual. Plus, you can then fine-tune the ”curve” of the gradient transition, which is far from obvious given that this is a non-standard technique.


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## Rob (Jan 22, 2018)

JJP's suggestion is common practice among contemporary composers, I'd stick to that


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## Sears Poncho (Jan 22, 2018)

_Gradually longer Strokes (i.e. 32nds to 16ths etc)._


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## Nikolai Winge (Jan 22, 2018)

JJP said:


> Count me as another vote for the text explanation like "unmeasured tremolo of varying speed" on the first instance. After that you can use "sim." if it seems clearer or no text at all.
> 
> You can notate the fanned/feathered beams with consistent spacing between the note stems to show the change in speed.
> 
> ...




Hey 

Thats some really good and consistent advice and yes in my haste to show you the beams came out backwards hahah!! 
But its a relly good point and a time saver to just keep the distances between the noteheads consistent . and just write trem instead of the Z .

Thank you so much !


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## Nikolai Winge (Jan 22, 2018)

Mundano said:


> i have an idea (copyrighted)  , build on your own:
> 
> from terminology > ritardando > rallentando > then comes --->
> 
> ...




Hey Thanks for sharing!!! . I Can see youvhave been thinking this through. This is quite a complex grading system indeed  .


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## Nikolai Winge (Jan 22, 2018)

douggibson said:


> Others (JJP, Rob, Wallander, and the last person who shops at Sears) have given excellent advice.
> 
> Part of the question, I suspect, also has to do with whether you are looking to go into the avant grade classical scene.
> That has it's own aesthetic, and usually it's own dedicated performers who specialize in complexity.
> ...






Hey
Thank you for your thoughts on this . Going to zero you would be right in many situations but not all . In dynamics you are right I guess but not in tremolo then a fibonnaci approach is working fine I think ? 

Yes a lot of fantastic advice has been given here already . I was having a spontaneous notation question and appreciate all your answers.
The reason I have not had the time to study all the litterature right now is simply that I am under time pressure and writing a score in the moment and this question arose.
Sorry if I annoyed you into perplexity .

all the best
Niko


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## dddiam (Jun 3, 2021)

I would vote for the shortest text phrase that you feel communicates. "Accelerating tremolo" or "Decelerating tremolo" or "Accelerating trill" or "Decelerating trill".

Give a little bit of expression latitude to the performer. Micro-managing can make another performer sound stilted. No one can play exactly like you.

The opening gliss-portamento from Rhapsody in Blue requires a huge amount of expression, but I have never seen the details of that expression in any music scores. You learn by watching various YouTube performances.

(I think that the exception to this is Debussy. He was a stickler for communicating precise timing, famous for intermixing tuplets).

For an accelerating or decelerating glissando or portamento, you can show the in-between notes explicitly (slurred), and add a series of tenutos to the beginning or to the end of the scale, respectively. Most musicians will understand your intent.


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