# Looking for cool orchestral textures using polychords



## vicontrolu (Dec 7, 2017)

Mostly trying to express chaos, disorientation...not too dark though.

Feel free to suggest anything that comes to your mind...Williams or not.


----------



## Leandro Gardini (Dec 11, 2017)

Besides dissonant harmony may also think of inconsistent rhythms of get the feeling of disorientation.
This article may be of help for you: https://www.leandrogardini.com/single-post/2017/07/30/The-Chaotic-Mind-of-John-Williams


----------



## ed buller (Dec 11, 2017)

the chords at the end of the Star Wars Intro music. Three poly chords. C aug up top. String runs play this. Underneath Db Maj, A Maj followed by C Maj. Reminds me of Holts's Neptune. 









This Too has a section of Polychords although the last sonority might be better described as a seventh . 











Jerry Goldsmith was fond of them too. Planet of the apes is full of them. 

best e


----------



## lsabina (Dec 13, 2017)

There is always the Petrouchka chord. Nice poly chords in The Rite of Spring too.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 15, 2017)

The Awesome Barry Gray was very fond of poly chords:



some are so simple . One of my Fav's from Thunderbirds is basically Dmaj in both hands with the right climbing up to E then F# and the Left depending to C then Bb....so simple but a great sound.










Ron Goodwin was a master at poly chords. 



check out from about 4.50. Really amazing textures .

e


----------



## Naoki Ohmori (Dec 17, 2017)

ed buller said:


> The Awesome Barry Gray was very fond of poly chords:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks, ed. 
Your posts are always informative. 

Are there any books extensively/deeply covering polychords?


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Dec 17, 2017)

Naoki Ohmori said:


> Are there any books extensively/deeply covering polychords?



Vincent Persichetti - Twentieth Century Harmony is great. It covers polychords extensively (and lots more!)


----------



## Naoki Ohmori (Dec 18, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Vincent Persichetti - Twentieth Century Harmony is great. It covers polychords extensively (and lots more!)



Thanks, Rasmus. 
Actually I have read the Vincent book which is informative (and a little bit difficult to read for me lol)
but I just wondered if there are books taking another approach to explain polychords.


----------



## lsabina (Dec 18, 2017)

Ron Miller's books have good chapters on this.


----------



## Naoki Ohmori (Dec 18, 2017)

lsabina said:


> Ron Miller's books have good chapters on this.


I'll check them out.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 19, 2017)

This is my current fav book on "modern Harmony".

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1340164280/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=


My question for you is "what about polychords do you like , and can you point to some examples that you would like to emulate ? "

e


----------



## Naoki Ohmori (Dec 19, 2017)

ed buller said:


> This is my current fav book on "modern Harmony".
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1340164280/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=
> 
> ...



Well, I can't tell much between polychords and chords with many extensions, and I can't remark on the polychords I especially like cuz I just stated to learn those chords. 
But I find the polychords on the opening titles of Jurassic Park interesting. 

I just wonder if there is a rough guidance on how to create/experiment with polychords or how to use them practically.


----------



## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 19, 2017)

ed buller said:


> This is my current fav book on "modern Harmony".
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1340164280/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=
> 
> ...



"modern"... 1915. 

You can find that freely available on IMSLP. 

If you're looking for ways to create your own cohesive musical vocabulary for a certain setting, I recommend looking into parsimonious voice leading and geometric approaches. I believe it relates to Neo-Riemannian theory but I never studied it from that point of view.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 19, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> "modern"... 1915.
> 
> You can find that freely available on IMSLP.
> 
> If you're looking for ways to create your own cohesive musical vocabulary for a certain setting, I recommend looking into parsimonious voice leading and geometric approaches. I believe it relates to Neo-Riemannian theory but I never studied it from that point of view.



Very useful....and yes it is basically Neo_Riemannian theory but it's not Polychords. As to Modern Harmony i find books written around the time of the early twentieth century very informative as all the ideas where fresh . Lots to learn from that book that hasn't made it into later tomes.



Naoki Ohmori said:


> I just wonder if there is a rough guidance on how to create/experiment with polychords or how to use them practically.



Polychords as apposed to extensions, are chords where its really possible to see them as two ( or more ) separate sonorities that are clearly distinctive . Yes C Min With Bbflat Maj is better described as a 9th chord whereas the "Petrushka chord" is clearly two Maj Chords stacked together. As to the right way to use these sounds ....well that really is up to you. A common technique is to use the pitches from two chords as a scale ( Usually a hexatonic one). This is Holst's trick in Neptune. The opening of the piece is Emin Followed by Ab Min. If we add the C ( which would be in AbMajor ) we get a hexatonic collection . Holst uses this scale as the building block of the piece. We hear it played as a sale by the celeste at 3;18 :



This is a very common way to use polychords as the intervalic Language of a piece. Another approach would be too use pitch set. These generally have less pitches and are quite often combined to form more choices. Bartok was very fond of this technique. He called them Cells . 

So perhaps a good start would be to bash away at the piano and find a combination of chords you like the sound of when played together. Then arrange the pitches as a scale and write a piece out of that . The Neptune example is deceptively simple. There really is very little pitch data in it. No modulations or expositions really . He does use some chords at the opening . A min and Ab Min but as you see this is from his scale . D#,E,G,Ab,B,C that is his source material . There is a small passage playing chords built from EbDorian...but it's just a flavour he adds...but the takeaway for me is how rich and ethereal all this sounds. 

e


----------



## devonmyles (Dec 19, 2017)

ed buller said:


> The Awesome Barry Gray was very fond of poly chords:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great examples.
I have been listening to a lot of material from both of them this last year.
Their Brass writing is a real education.


----------



## jonathanparham (Dec 22, 2017)

ed buller said:


> This is my current fav book on "modern Harmony".
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1340164280/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=
> 
> ...


How do we add this to the stickie?


----------



## dreamtuned (Jan 31, 2018)

Arthur Honegger's 5th Symphony has some very nice polychords (and polytonality) at the very beginning as a theme.

There is clearly a strong accent on "*d*" build on the foundation of isorhythmic simetry in contrary motion of two layers of major and minor triads from which in the first 4 measures there are _bichordic combinations_: *Eb-C, C#-Eb, F-Bb, g-a, a-g*.


----------



## synergy543 (Feb 1, 2018)

ed buller said:


> As to Modern Harmony i find books written around the time of the early twentieth century very informative as all the ideas where fresh . Lots to learn from that book that hasn't made it into later tomes.



Yes, agreed! I've been enjoying going through many of these older books as well including Heacox, Lovelock, Wagner, McPherson, Wedge, and Andersen just to name a few. I thought I was the only freak in the world enjoying these old crumbs. Its like stepping back in time into another world where the excitement of Romantic music was still politically correct and alive. Its great that we can still enjoy these with all the modern perks (DAWs, Sibelius, computers, etc.) though some of the books are quite hard to find or acquire. Then I suppose not just having only a pencil and paper can be a curse (FB, e-mail, etc.).


----------



## YaniDee (Feb 1, 2018)

Here is some good info:
 and 
Rick Beato explains things very clearly. ( With no whisky..)


----------

