# Sketches of Flugelhorn & Light as a Flutist - [NEW!] Alto Flute Demo Posted



## StraightAheadSamples (Nov 15, 2022)

Hey all,
Just a quick note about our 2 new libraries that will be available starting Black Friday (November 25). Continuing in our New Standard line, we've got 2 gorgeous libraries that we're super excited about: *Sketches of Flugelhorn* & *Light as a Flutist*.

Light as a Flutist includes both a *concert flute* and an *alto flute*. And Sketches of Flugelhorn includes, well, a flugelhorn. 








Here's 2 demos for Sketches of Flugelhorn and we'll post some flute demos and videos for both as they get finished.





You may have seen the ad for our Seven Steps To Heaven - Holiday Sale (starts on Black Friday). These new libraries will be *$106.59* individually or *$210.58* together. If you're bundling with more items it could be even cheaper.

More info here (these pages are still getting filled out)








Sketches of Flugelhorn


Gorgeously mellow flugelhorn library featuring Smart Delay.




www.straightaheadsamples.com












Light as a Flutist


Concert flute and alto flute library based on the New Standard system of sampling.




www.straightaheadsamples.com


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## doctoremmet (Nov 15, 2022)

This sounds lovely @StraightAheadSamples - Kenny Wheeler vibes! Love the string arrangement too by the way, moody. 

Congratulation on this coming double release. Demos have convinced me to actually rethink my BF budget. Can’t wait to hear the flutes.


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## Yury Tikhomirov (Nov 15, 2022)

Sounds lovely. Can't wait to hear Light as a Flutist demo since there is a huge gap in jazz flute libraries. So I have high hopes for it, and wish it to become the one to rule them all.


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## artomatic (Nov 15, 2022)

Love this.
Instant buy here!
Truly a BF budget killer!!


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 15, 2022)

Let's go!!


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## BezO (Nov 15, 2022)

I've been waiting on your flute(s). Wasn't expecting a Flugelhorn, but I'll likely grab that as well. It sounds great! And good to hear there will be additional discounts if bundling with additional instruments because I'll be grabbing the clarinet as well.


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## wunderflo (Nov 15, 2022)

This sounds unbelievably real... eh... I mean believable real... eh... you know what I mean. Sounds amazing!
Fantastic demos, too!


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## Soundbed (Nov 16, 2022)

Sounds great!!


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## StraightAheadSamples (Nov 20, 2022)




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## decredis (Nov 21, 2022)

Sounds really cool. I like the short repetitions and the flutter especially; some of the longer notes felt a bit static... might be interesting to hear a demo with slower, more lyrical passages, if that's within the stylistic range of the instrument?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Nov 21, 2022)

decredis said:


> Sounds really cool. I like the short repetitions and the flutter especially; some of the longer notes felt a bit static... might be interesting to hear a demo with slower, more lyrical passages, if that's within the stylistic range of the instrument?


For this demo, I used our "Reconstructed Vibrato" which is our modulation-based vibrato we have used on all the instruments. So, in other words, using the flat, non-vibrato sustains and adding the vibrato to it. But for the flutes, we actually recorded real performed legato on the sustains as well. Which we will demonstrate in other videos for sure. Vibrato is such a *huge* part of a flutist's technique (so much of the _perceived_ dynamic is from the intensity of the vibrato for example) that we wanted to have that option to use the real performer vibrato when necessary. This is different than other New Standard instruments, and the end user will be able to choose whether they want to use the performed vib or add it themselves (to control speed and depth).


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## decredis (Nov 21, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> For this demo, I used our "Reconstructed Vibrato" which is our modulation-based vibrato we have used on all the instruments. So, in other words, using the flat, non-vibrato sustains and adding the vibrato to it. But for the flutes, we actually recorded real performed legato on the sustains as well. Which we will demonstrate in other videos for sure. Vibrato is such a *huge* part of a flutist's technique (so much of the _perceived_ dynamic is from the intensity of the vibrato for example) that we wanted to have that option to use the real performer vibrato when necessary. This is different than other New Standard instruments, and the end user will be able to choose whether they want to use the performed vib or add it themselves (to control speed and depth).


Fantastic, look forward to hearing this!


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## decredis (Nov 21, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples Will there be any additional "mellow trio" bundle-completion discount for existing owners of the clarinet, to buy the flugelhorn and flute? Or will it just be the flugelhorn+flute price as quoted in the original post?


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## doctoremmet (Nov 21, 2022)

decredis said:


> @StraightAheadSamples Will there be any additional "mellow trio" bundle-completion discount for existing owners of the clarinet, to buy the flugelhorn and flute? Or will it just be the flugelhorn+flute price as quoted in the original post?


Good question; I was wondering about this as well.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Nov 21, 2022)

decredis said:


> @StraightAheadSamples Will there be any additional "mellow trio" bundle-completion discount for existing owners of the clarinet, to buy the flugelhorn and flute? Or will it just be the flugelhorn+flute price as quoted in the original post?


The sale price is acting as the intro price, so there is no additional discount for previous La Clarinette En Rose owners.


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## Yury Tikhomirov (Nov 21, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples is there any chance to make the countdown timer on your website to run a little bit faster?


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## wunderflo (Nov 21, 2022)

sorry for asking (feel free to ignore this question), but I just can't help it: What are the strings you used on the Rose Hips sketches of flugelhorn demo?


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## dyross (Nov 21, 2022)

I'm quite intrigued by the flute, but I'm curious: has anyone used these "New Standard" instruments in Dorico? My read of the "Smart Delay" feature is that you need to move all notes 4 beats ahead - which implies, to me, that the instrument needs to know host tempo, which Dorico doesn't support (yet). Am I missing something?


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## cloudbuster (Nov 21, 2022)

Did somebody say "Flügelhorn"? Can't have enough, count me in. (amazing demo!)


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## StraightAheadSamples (Nov 22, 2022)




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## styledelk (Nov 23, 2022)

dyross said:


> I'm quite intrigued by the flute, but I'm curious: has anyone used these "New Standard" instruments in Dorico? My read of the "Smart Delay" feature is that you need to move all notes 4 beats ahead - which implies, to me, that the instrument needs to know host tempo, which Dorico doesn't support (yet). Am I missing something?


They can be used in a non-delay mode. They just won’t sound as good


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## dyross (Nov 23, 2022)

styledelk said:


> They can be used in a non-delay mode. They just won’t sound as good


Yup, that’s true. But wondering more how smart delay works and if my theory is correct that it’s incompatible with Dorico.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Nov 23, 2022)

Hey all, just an update here. So, it's looking like* Light as a Flutist* will have to start out this Black Friday sale as a *pre-order*. This is one of the busiest times for Native Instruments and although the library is finished, we're still waiting on their final approval. We're gonna let our Seven Steps To Heaven sale run for a few weeks so there's plenty of time.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Nov 23, 2022)

Here's a quick video demo of the *alto flute* from *Light as a Flutist* in action. You can see this one is employing the *performed vibrato* samples (rather than the modulation based one). You can choose which kind of vibrato you want, though the vibrato is such a huge part of the player's sound, for ballads like this, it's definitely the way to go.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

Very nice! Shame we will have to pre-order the flute, but maybe in a couple of weeks time we’ll be able to get our serials. Will the bundle with the flugelhorn still be available? And will there be a way to complete the entire New Standard collection at a discount? I’m currently also missing the Atomic Big Band.

Anyway, fantastic demos - a good showcase for what can be achieved using Smart Delay.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Nov 23, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Shame we will have to pre-order the flute, but maybe in a couple of weeks time we’ll be able to get our serials.


Yes, we agree. Not ideal, but it shouldn't be long at all. NI is just slammed. 



doctoremmet said:


> Will the bundle with the flugelhorn still be available? And will there be a way to complete the entire New Standard collection at a discount? I’m currently also missing the Atomic Big Band.


Oh yes, will be the best time to add more to your collection. Up to 30% off depending on how much you put in your cart.


doctoremmet said:


> Anyway, fantastic demos - a good showcase for what can be achieved using Smart Delay.


Thanks!!


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## artinro (Nov 23, 2022)

I’m a huge fan of the “New Standard” series. Game changers in many cases.

The Saint-Saëns is obviously a very demanding line for a sampled flute to pull off convincingly. I thought this handled many aspects well but I’m not sold on the upward runs starting around :33. The gui shows legato in those moments but there seems to be a fairly pronounced attack on each note leading to an unidiomatic result for the line (especially at the tuplets at the very end of each). I wonder if another articulation might work better there, or if the legato somehow became disengaged? Perhaps the non-vib legato would work well for the faster moments?


Still a lot to love here and I plan on grabbing this and the flugelhorn.


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## Lambchops (Nov 23, 2022)

This chap is a friend of mine and pretty much almost as good a piano player as he is a flautist. You ought to send him a copy and see what he comes up with for a demo..


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## VSTHero (Nov 23, 2022)

dyross said:


> Yup, that’s true. But wondering more how smart delay works and if my theory is correct that it’s incompatible with Dorico.


Dorico does have a delay feature, but it's in the play section and it's note attribute rather than a global track delay (also I think it's Pro version only). So you could use a filter to select all the notes in a track and set a start and end delay. But things I'm not certain of - how much delay it allows for, and if it works for the first measure (it should in theory)- so it _might_ work, but devil is in the detail.

*Edit - I just tested this - 480 ticks delay equals one quarter note... it allowed me to go up to 9999, which is approximately 5 4/4 measures of delay, and it worked for the first note of the score, so things are looking good. I know folks use this function for adjusted lines to typical legato delays, so I think it should work for these libraries.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

Can’t you just program in notes in Dorico and then literally shift the Straight Ahead part one bar to the left, in relation to the rest of the score? Because THAT is how Smart Delay actually works in a DAW. So it reads any string of notes one bar early and then creates the best possible rendition of that and plays it back 4 beats later. It has nothing to do with track delay, but everything with placing MIDI NOTES 4 beats ahead of when you want them played. So why fiddle with ticks and delays and stuff I wonder?

Watch this video and closely look at the piano roll in relation to the notes being played. The Kontakt scripts need to be fed MIDI one bar in advance. Nothing more to it. So everything takes place in Kontakt, “delay wise”. As long it gets fed MIDI. Which Dorico can no doubt achieve?


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## VSTHero (Nov 23, 2022)

I guess it'd be just if you don't want to decouple the score from the midi while you're still writing (for notation focused writing). Obviously at the end it'd be no big deal for a mockup. I also don't know how Dorico handles 'invisible' bars before the score starts - if you can or can't create those, or if this means you are required to add empty bars to the start of the score to have access to that in the piano roll/track lanes. I'm not sure I'd prefer that to just using the more hidden playback offset function if they both work. You can make a popup macros that will select all the notes for a track in 2 seconds and then just apply the delay (and turn it off again as well). But sounds like there's lots of options for each workflow style! And the SA libraries will work


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## axb312 (Nov 23, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


>



Might've been nice if these instruments were recorded in a hall with good close mics for those who need the up front sound.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

But a hall would have been less suitable for the intended use case I gather, which is provide more of a jazz / studio vibe - like all other instruments in this range. Luckily, there’s a plethora of flutes recorded in a hall.


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## Tremendouz (Nov 25, 2022)

I'm in love with the alto flute demo. I'm wondering though, how would the flutes fare in a less jazzy and more slow, lyrical context with lots of long notes such as this? (timestamp for concert flute)


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## Yury Tikhomirov (Nov 25, 2022)

Tremendouz said:


> I'm in love with the alto flute demo. I'm wondering though, how would the flutes fare in a less jazzy and more slow, lyrical context with lots of long notes such as this? (timestamp for concert flute)



I am sure you want it to be universal, but being honest - if it could sound like that I won't ever consider it. Since all what I am looking for - is soul/funk flute not classical one, and there is no single other product (I mean any other instrument) that could be equally great (best in category) in both genres.


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## stargazer (Nov 26, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Oh yes, will be the best time to add more to your collection. Up to 30% off depending on how much you put in your cart.


When does the sale expire?


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## Tremendouz (Nov 26, 2022)

Yury Tikhomirov said:


> I am sure you want it to be universal, but being honest - if it could sound like that I won't ever consider it. Since all what I am looking for - is soul/funk flute not classical one, and there is no single other product (I mean any other instrument) that could be equally great (best in category) in both genres.


Oh, I'm simply curious to see just how flexible it can be. I don't have any of the other SAS libraries so I don't know the scope of their capabilities.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Dec 9, 2022)

Just a heads up everyone that Light as a Flutist is available for download now! For those that pre-ordered (thank you) and you have an email in your inbox right now with your serial and download instructions.

Some walkthrough vids and other video content showing both flutes and the flugelhorn in the works as I type.

Also, (for those that were asking), Sketches of Flugelhorn bugs were fixed (just some wrong notes and gliss weirdness, that update is already available in Pulse. La Clarinette En Rose bug fixes were finished last night and will be pushed today for download in Pulse. And many of the Atomic Big Band bugs have been sorted, so we're very close on a new version (will be done next week).


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## Zanshin (Dec 9, 2022)

Awesome  

I've been excited for the release.


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## Marsen (Dec 9, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples how long will the sale go on?
Could not find infos on the page.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Dec 9, 2022)

Marsen said:


> @StraightAheadSamples how long will the sale go on?
> Could not find infos on the page.


We specifically did not announce when the sale would end, that way we wouldn't be tempted to change our minds and go back on our word. But I think, now that Light as a Flutist is finally available for download, we've just decided to let the sale go through the holiday and end it on New Years Eve. A more official notice will go out, but that's the plan. 

In the past, we've done a "Black Friday" sale and then that ended and then a few weeks later we did a December holiday sale. But it always just felt weird for folks that needed to buy during those couple of full-price weeks, only for them to see it discounted just a few weeks later. So we've liked just leaving it going for the whole Nov-Dec season this year.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 9, 2022)

the flutes are absolutely wonderful


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## Zanshin (Dec 10, 2022)

Yeah they do sound very good.

I'm not sure if it's a bug but dynamics on the Concert are very subtle to the point where I am not sure if it's just my imagination that there are dynamics at all lol. Perhaps that's the nature of the beast here?

On the Alto (I love the alto timbre by the way), it loads up with "key vel" on by default. Key velocity does not change dynamic or volume. Changing it to "mod. wheel" makes no difference either. When you make the initial change the layout of the controls becomes messed up, changing to another tab and back corrects it. 

I tested with both Kontakt 6 and 7. Just me? Can anyone else repro?


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## Vlzmusic (Dec 11, 2022)

Demos anyone?


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## Grymt (Dec 11, 2022)

Hi @StraightAheadSamples , I think I found two bugs in the alto flute.

1. One is in the gui: at least I can't read what it says on real vib/mod vib/vel stac etcetera.

2. The other one: when I play the alto in real time with hard velocity, the sound is actually softer than with low velocity.
I may enter more bugs, this was just the first 20 seconds of playing I'm afraid.






edit: more complaints, sorry.

3. There's no manual

4. When you go to the tab control and change the amount of vibrato, this doesn't seem to have any effect in any mode.

Second edit: 
I was wrong, there is a difference. Only in mod vib mode (see tab: "performance").
But to be honoust: it sounds like vibrato when you set a decent amount of vibrato in the tab "control", but if you set the amount to zero it sounds very strange, like vibrato was added and then removed again.
You can't change vibrato during a note, you can only set it for the next note. And again, and again.
Same for speed: you can't make any variation during a note, only set it for the whole length of next note. I think it's crucial to be able to change the vib during one long note, to make it sound natural. 
I don't know yet if the smart mode will do this differently, but as you can't seem to be able to control vibrato yourself in smart mode I think that's a bit of a shame as well.

The promise that you could have no, little or much vibrato was the main reason for me to buy this, so I'm not too pleased to be honoust.

This doesn't feel like a completed €107 instrument to me yet.
Let's hope there will be some fixes, preferably sooner than last time.


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## Grymt (Dec 11, 2022)

More Alto Flute bugs:

Number 5:
Stacatissimo below C#5 gives you two short notes in stead of one, but not evey time, just every 3rd round robin.

6:
I can't hear the difference between legato and tongued

7
I seem to hear a slight click at the start of a fall

This is all in Real Time. Smart Delay is different.

8
The range is wrong. This alto flute has a range of G3-G5, while a real alto flute has a range of G3 to G6, plus an altissimo register stretching to D♭7.


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## Grymt (Dec 11, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> La Clarinette En Rose bug fixes were finished last night and will be pushed today for download in Pulse.


No update visible in Pulse yet? Maybe it took a day longer.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Dec 12, 2022)

Will look into these dynamic issues and the other ones mentioned today and tomorrow. We have this week set aside totally for updates and fixes so we should be able to address most, if not all, issues.

I'll address a couple that Grymt mentioned


Grymt said:


> 4. When you go to the tab control and change the amount of vibrato, this doesn't seem to have any effect in any mode.
> 
> Second edit:
> I was wrong, there is a difference. Only in mod vib mode (see tab: "performance").
> ...


There's 2 kinds of vibrato. First, the "Real" vibrato, meaning the player actually played with vibrato, so obviously you can't change the speed of it as it was performed. I suppose we could do some artifical speeding up or slowing down, but that really isn't the vibe. If you want it to be the real thing, just let the player do it. Otherwise, you can use option 2: The "Mod" vibrato. This is a modulation based vibrato like we have on all our New Standard instruments. So yes these can be controlled and tweaked. If you're the kind of person that needs to tweak, that is your go-to.



Grymt said:


> 6
> I can't hear the difference between legato and tongued
> 
> 7
> ...


There is no difference in Real-Time between tongued and legato. That is a feature that really only works in Smart Delay. And in general, Real-Time is the one that matters. The Real-Time mode is for playing it in and adding some basic keyswitches. And it really performs in Smart Delay. 



Grymt said:


> 8
> The range is wrong. This alto flute has a range of G3-G5, while a real alto flute has a range of G3 to G6, plus an altissimo register stretching to D♭7.


We sampled the most characteristic and useful range. Once alto gets above its G at the top of the staff (sounding D in the treble clef), it starts to become quite pale and anemic sounding and that range is exactly where the concert flute becomes gorgeous and glowing. Sure it _can_ play another octave, but you don't really need it up there as it truly favors its low register.


The rest of the issues I will look into now and have fixes this week.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Dec 12, 2022)

Grymt said:


> No update visible in Pulse yet? Maybe it took a day longer.


It is up in Pulse now.


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## Grymt (Dec 12, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> It is up in Pulse now.


Thanks.


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## Grymt (Dec 12, 2022)

Thanks for the first couple of answers. Please take a day off after updating Rose 
After that I've got some more questions though.




StraightAheadSamples said:


> (...)
> 
> There's 2 kinds of vibrato. First, the "Real" vibrato, meaning the player actually played with vibrato, so obviously you can't change the speed of it as it was performed. I suppose we could do some artifical speeding up or slowing down, but that really isn't the vibe. If you want it to be the real thing, just let the player do it. Otherwise, you can use option 2: The "Mod" vibrato. This is a modulation based vibrato like we have on all our New Standard instruments. So yes these can be controlled and tweaked. If you're the kind of person that needs to tweak, that is your go-to.


I was talking about Mod vibrato. I can't seem to change it during a note.




StraightAheadSamples said:


> (...)
> 
> There is no difference in Real-Time between tongued and legato. That is a feature that really only works in Smart Delay. And in general, Real-Time is the one that matters. The Real-Time mode is for playing it in and adding some basic keyswitches. And it really performs in Smart Delay.


I guess you meant: Smart Delay is the one that matters. OK that's of course true. 
But it's hard to play in something and edit it if you can't hear what you're doing. If we need to set it to Smart Delay first to be able to do that, there's two negatives in that: 1. editing takes twice as much time; 2. There's less reason to have a Real Time mode at all, if it doesn't work in some articulations.




StraightAheadSamples said:


> (...)
> 
> We sampled the most characteristic and useful range. Once alto gets above its G at the top of the staff (sounding D in the treble clef), it starts to become quite pale and anemic sounding and that range is exactly where the concert flute becomes gorgeous and glowing. Sure it _can_ play another octave, but you don't really need it up there as it truly favors its low register.


Hmm, I agree the G3-G5 range is the most important, but I would think at least the first few notes after that matter too?








StraightAheadSamples said:


> (...)
> 
> The rest of the issues I will look into now and have fixes this week.


That's great, thanks.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Dec 14, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Yeah they do sound very good.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a bug but dynamics on the Concert are very subtle to the point where I am not sure if it's just my imagination that there are dynamics at all lol. Perhaps that's the nature of the beast here?
> 
> ...


These have been sorted. Update coming shortly.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Dec 14, 2022)

Grymt said:


> Hi @StraightAheadSamples , I think I found two bugs in the alto flute.
> 
> 1. One is in the gui: at least I can't read what it says on real vib/mod vib/vel stac etcetera.
> 
> 2. The other one: when I play the alto in real time with hard velocity, the sound is actually softer than with low velocity.


Both of these have been fixed. Update coming shortly.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Dec 20, 2022)

Updates have been pushed for Light as a Flutist, Sketches of Flugelhorn, Atomic Big Band, Clarinette En Rose. 

For those that have been waiting, our holiday sale will end on New Year's Eve (December 31st).

Also, here's a overview video for Light as a Flutist.


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## Grymt (Dec 20, 2022)

About the update of Light as a Fluitist:


Grymt said:


> 1. One is in the gui: at least I can't read what it says on real vib/mod vib/vel stac etcetera.


Fixed! Thank you @StraightAheadSamples



Grymt said:


> 2. The other one: when I play the alto in real time with hard velocity, the sound is actually softer than with low velocity.


Partially fixed. I'm sorry, but this seems to be fixed in smart delay mode now, but not in real time mode. In real time mode dynamics don't seem to have any influence anymore, except that the first higher note is louder now, independent from velocity or mod wheel.



Grymt said:


> 3. There's no manual


no change




Grymt said:


> 4. (...) if you set the amount to zero it sounds very strange, like vibrato was added and then removed again. (...)


Fixed, thank you!



Grymt said:


> 4. (...) [everything else with] vibrato (...)


no change. See below for a longread about vib.




Grymt said:


> 5:
> Stacatissimo below C#5 gives you two short notes in stead of one, but not evey time, just every 3rd round robin.


no change. Every third round robin of stacatissimo still gives two notes in stead of one. This happens in both Real Time and Smart Delay.



Grymt said:


> 6:
> I can't hear the difference between legato and tongued


no change.
SAS explained above this is no mistake, we should use smart delay to hear the difference. I don't know why SAS put in so much effort to build extra options for vibrato in Real Time and then leave out the tongued articulation in Real Time. But, listening again, I don't think there's Tongued in Smart Delay either. It sounds like standard legato to me?



Grymt said:


> 7
> I seem to hear a slight click at the start of a fall


Solved, thank you!



Grymt said:


> 8
> The range (...) This alto flute has a range of G3-G5, while a real alto flute has a range of G3 to G6, plus an altissimo register stretching to D♭7.


no change, as expected of course, but I do hope the next instrument will have full range.
But let's get into Vibrato.

*Vibrato*
Vibrato is complicated. There are two "time" modes, Real Time and Smart Delay, in which vibrato reacts very differently. Then there are two modes of vibrato: 'real vib' and 'mod vib', that have different effects in different time modes.

In both Real Time and Smart Delay, vibrato (including vibrato wait in Real Time mode) is set before the note starts, so it's the same during that note (apart from the vibrato wait). You can't change vibrato WHILE playing a note, like players naturally do. This makes long notes sound unnatural to me.

Smart Delay Mode has even less control on vibrato, like SAS explains above. 
The speed does have influence, but only in 'mod vib' mode. When you use 'real vib' mode in Smart Delay, most 'natural vibrato' has the same vibrato speed and intensity it seems, it's just on or off. Also, the vibrato kicks in after aprox the same time of playing a note.
Although a single note is beautiful in Smart Delay-real vib mode, this makes several vibrato notes in a row feel machinegunnery to me.

*Future possibilities?*

I think vibrato is where the challenge for Straight Ahead Samples lies for the future. Fluid vibrato is such a mighty important part of real instruments. Real players will never use the same vibrato all the time. They start with a slow vibrato that builds up, or the other way around. Vibrato should be musical, like pitch or dynamics. You don't play the same pitch all the time in a song either.

But vibrato is very difficult for all inventors of virtual instruments.

Of course, many virtual instruments from all kinds of compagnies use one of these two solutions for this:
1. Baked in vibrato, that doesn't start immediately, so you don't notice immediately that every note is the same;
2. Artificial vibrato, that (when done well) gives more tweakability even during playing a note, but always sounds a bit less natural in a single note than method 1.

(I do prefer method 2 though, as nobody uses one single note in a music piece. And once you recognise that same vibrato in every note in method 1, you want to run away - well I do.)

SAS actually uses both methods, which is great as it gives you some more choice, although complicated as you can't use it in every time mode and can't change during notes.

To me neither methods are a real solution anyway. But in my amateuristic mind, SAS has a possible solution in hand...
The legato in smart delay already seems to start with a sample without vibrato, that is followed up after a small delay with an X-fade into another sample that's with or without vibrato (according to the settings of the player).
With more samples and more X fades, this could maybe built into a more fluid thing, in which players can change the vibrato during a note, and have influence on vib start, strength and speed, all within the same note, as the Smart Delay switches to samples with stronger or faster vibrato or less, and X fades between them that (very shortly) artificially speeds up vib samples or slows them down, to make a fluid transition.

This would of course have a huge downside: Much more recording / samples / GB / work for SAS. And slowing down or speeding up natural vibrato samples might be impossibe to sound good.

So maybe I just got a bad idea.

But good sounding and tweakable vibrato is a huge thing in the virtual instrument world, and the Smart Delay does seem to offer one of the best chances to make it better in the future.


*SAS is great*

Sorry if I'm taking over your thread too much. I don't mean to talk you down, or attack your instruments. I love them and use them a lot. This post and the one before has cost me some hours, which I spend because I care, and I hope to help you with reporting bugs.
I'm just a user, without much knowledge about building virtual instruments, so I'm probably not saying anything new or sensible about a new kind of vibrato. But if you could use it, that would be great.

I haven't bought Flugelhorn yet, as I already bought audiomodeling SWAM flugelhorn a few months back, and my money was spent. But from the demos I think yours is a lot better.

To moderators: I'm not sure if this is the most suitable place to report bugs. If you think I should post this elsewhere, please move my post if you don't mind.


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## Vlzmusic (Dec 21, 2022)

Grymt said:


> But good sounding and tweakable vibrato is a huge thing in the virtual instrument world, and the Smart Delay does seem to offer one of the best chances to make it better....


Most of VI products (dealing with acoustic instruments) rely on actual recordings, and do not use any artificial measures to tweak them, besides a stretch maybe. Many times, what seems huge on paper, fails to translate as such to the real world.


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