# Light and Sound Concert Grand



## Light and Sound (Mar 28, 2018)

Light and Sound are proud to announce our Concert Grand, the famous Steinway C in Studio One, Windmill Lane in the Concert Position - designed specifically to work both as a solo piano for classical works, but also sits beautifully within a wide range of other genres and styles - true to the nature of Windmill Lanes proud recording history and unique acoustic space.

Following our commitment to making the most versatile and playable instruments, the new Concert Grand features 11 mic positions, comprised of the world's finest microphones and everything you could possibly expect from a modern piano VST. Including repedalling (continuous repedalling), half pedalling, sympathetic resonance (and repedalling sympathetic resonance!), true customizable pedal resonance and all the control you could ever ask for:







Demos:





The manual can be found here.

Available to buy now at an introductory offer of just $99 until 30th April http://lightandsoundsamples.com/concertgrand.html


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## Silence-is-Golden (Mar 28, 2018)

Interesting ! Good sound is my first impression.

Some preliminary questions of info not (yet) on the website
- how many velocity layers are available?
- it hears as if the higher FF and or FFF dynamics are recorded?
- and round robins? Recorded and/or scripted?


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## Light and Sound (Mar 29, 2018)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> Interesting ! Good sound is my first impression.
> 
> Some preliminary questions of info not (yet) on the website



Hey! 



> how many velocity layers are available?



We didn't sample a set amount of velocity layers per note; instead after a number of tests during some extra time of recording the chamber strings, we found the best method was to sample each note based on the _timbre _changes, rather than trying to get fixed velocities. We just did as many as it took to get all of the characters we could - so while one note has 33 velocity layers, another note might have 12. Requires a lot more post production work, but it was worth it!



> it hears as if the higher FF and or FFF dynamics are recorded?



Yes! We not only recorded the absolute loudest note possible with one hand, but also with two hands! In addition we also recorded the quietest note possible - nothing was automated, it was all played manually by yours truly.



> and round robins? Recorded and/or scripted?



Our string resonance tracking script handles everything here - it not only ensures the string is never ringing more than it should be over time (as can happen with other pianos when playing a lot of repeated notes/arpeggios) but also covers retriggering of the string, how notes respond to being re-hit while already ringing out sympathetically and of course a lot of other top secret magic - it does a lot of the heavy lifting with regards to the feel of the instrument!


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## al_net77 (Mar 29, 2018)

Interesting... did you sampled una corda, too?


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## OleJoergensen (Mar 29, 2018)

I think it sound really good! 
You captured both the powerful timbre at f-ff that only Steinway has and also the quite beautiful gentle p-pp sound. I like the design is for classical music. In the demo there is some sort of old fashion sound to it, maybe because the choice of mics..
It might be the piano sound Which I have been looking for for a couple of years.


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## al_net77 (Mar 29, 2018)

I'm mainly a pianist, and I usually don't like Kontakt based pianos because of pedal behaviour. I don't mean repedalling or half, but the reprodution of a fast note followed by pedal pressure (to simplify: pedal after note).
Maybe this one...


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## markleake (Mar 29, 2018)

I really do like the sound of this. I'm very much interested in the very soft to mid dynamics. Are there more demos coming that show this aspect?


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## Light and Sound (Mar 29, 2018)

al_net77 said:


> Interesting... did you sampled una corda, too?


Heya, Una Corda was not sampled, however we did record reference tracks used with Una Corda and select notes across the range to ensure we matched it as close as possible!



al_net77 said:


> I'm mainly a pianist, and I usually don't like Kontakt based pianos because of pedal behaviour. I don't mean repedalling or half, but the reprodution of a fast note followed by pedal pressure (to simplify: pedal after note).
> Maybe this one...


We do indeed fully support this via the string resonance tracking script - it correctly holds on to the resonance even after releasing them, and does this more aggressively towards the lower notes, just like the real thing - this is also based on reference tracks we recorded while there 



markleake said:


> I really do like the sound of this. I'm very much interested in the very soft to mid dynamics. Are there more demos coming that show this aspect?


There will indeed more demos detailing this - in addition there will be a demonstration of all the mic positions to give an idea of just how flexible it can be!


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## axb312 (Mar 30, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> Hey!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So no recorded round Robins?


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## Light and Sound (Mar 30, 2018)

axb312 said:


> So no recorded round Robins?



No, for a piano the use of round robins isn't needed unless you have noise issues in the room and don't want to spend extra time denoising (or just want to bloat the size of your instrument/download for... reasons??); since hitting a key at the exact velocity two times in a row will result in arguably an almost identical sound anyway (while letting the string stop ringing that is) it's better instead to focus on having as many LAYERS as possible, so that when you hit the same key at a slightly different velocity you get a different sample/timbre anyway.

For cases where the string is still ringing and you re-hit the same key, our string resonance tracking script handles that anyway.


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## axb312 (Mar 30, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> No, for a piano the use of round robins isn't needed unless you have noise issues in the room and don't want to spend extra time denoising (or just want to bloat the size of your instrument/download for... reasons??); since hitting a key at the exact velocity two times in a row will result in arguably an almost identical sound anyway (while letting the string stop ringing that is) it's better instead to focus on having as many LAYERS as possible, so that when you hit the same key at a slightly different velocity you get a different sample/timbre anyway.
> 
> For cases where the string is still ringing and you re-hit the same key, our string resonance tracking script handles that anyway.


OK. Thank you for the clarification. Looking forward to the reviews on this.


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## CGR (Mar 30, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> it's better instead to focus on having as many LAYERS as possible, so that when you hit the same key at a slightly different velocity you get a different sample/timbre anyway.


Ditto. Round robins make sense with instruments which are played with a variable technique, or a bow, pick etc. But a Steinway C grand piano's key/hammer mechanism is going to give you a reliable consistency at any given velocity.


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## tack (Mar 30, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> we found the best method was to sample each note based on the _timbre _changes, rather than trying to get fixed velocities. We just did as many as it took to get all of the characters we could - so while one note has 33 velocity layers, another note might have 12.


This is interesting, and also makes a lot of sense. I imagine the velocity layers needed to appropriately capture timbre tends to follow a pattern of groups? That is, I'd be surprised if you decided C2 required 33 layers, C#2 required 12 layers, and D2 required 24 layers?

Going to be keeping my eye on this one. I like the tone and you're ticking all the right playability boxes.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 1, 2018)

tack said:


> This is interesting, and also makes a lot of sense. I imagine the velocity layers needed to appropriately capture timbre tends to follow a pattern of groups? That is, I'd be surprised if you decided C2 required 33 layers, C#2 required 12 layers, and D2 required 24 layers?
> 
> Going to be keeping my eye on this one. I like the tone and you're ticking all the right playability boxes.



We didn't go in there thinking we'll do X number for each note, it was a reactive approach. I played the notes from as quiet as possible and got slightly louder each time, if it felt sounded like we had missed a timbre, I recorded more until we were satisfied. I have to say, compared to other sampling sessions, this was an extremely difficult and taxing, your ears get very tired concentrating for so long, and the notes on this piano lasted for over a minute at times! In terms of a pattern, towards the lower notes there were definitely less needed layers, towards the top there were a lot more subtle changes on this particular piano.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 2, 2018)

And our walkthrough is up, really excited to get this out to you all ASAP!



Our manual to follow soon, along with intro price details


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## tack (Apr 2, 2018)

I'm not normally interested in new VI pianos (having collected so many), but I have to say, I'm actually quite keen on this one. I'm very happy to see the emphasis on repedalling -- it's always for me a curious omission in other VIs, which if nothing else invariably tells me that the creators of those other libraries don't play like I play.

One thing caught my ear: at 5:32 during the Gymnopedie there is a pretty honking buzz on that low D. I wonder if that's tameable with either the release sample volume or resonance volume controls? Sounds like perhaps an overzealous sympathetic resonance.


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## CGR (Apr 2, 2018)

Going by this walkthrough - I'm impressed. Having someone develop a sampled piano who can really play and who understands all the performance nuances is fantastic to see.


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## OleJoergensen (Apr 3, 2018)

It sounds gorgeous! I look forward to release date .


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## good (Apr 3, 2018)

I'm very interested in your elegant musical instrument!
But there is one small thing to tell.
The first demo uploaded to the SoundCloud is not Rachmaninonff *op.27, no. 3* but *op.23 no.7* 
I think it was a simple typing error.
I'm looking forward to the release of your instrument!


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## Light and Sound (Apr 3, 2018)

good said:


> The first demo uploaded to the SoundCloud is not Rachmaninonff *op.27, no. 3* but *op.23 no.7*



Oh that's embarrassing! Yes that was indeed a typo! That's been updated 

We added a new demo:



And we're excited to announce we are now live! At an introductory price of $99 until April 31st at http://lightandsoundsamples.com/concertgrand.html! Happy Writing!

The manual can also be found here!


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## Gerbil (Apr 3, 2018)

That is a lovely sounding library. Congrats.

One thing bothers me though: in the Chopin Nocturne it seems that many of the notes centered around the melody are flying around the stereo field, some in the centre, some to the left (at lower velocities). I love what you've captured and built; it's very alive and evidently a project of passion, but notes shifting around like that would prove very off-putting when playing or listening.


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## jeremiahpena (Apr 3, 2018)

I just bought it and have been playing for about 30 minutes. It's so very playable, unlike a lot of piano libraries I've tried, and the tone is wonderful. This will almost definitely become the main piano in my template. Great library!

But please please fix the knobs on the interface. You have to drag the mouse left/right rather than up/down (which every other library uses), and they are extremely sensitive. The smallest movement creates huge changes.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 4, 2018)

Gerbil said:


> That is a lovely sounding library. Congrats.
> 
> One thing bothers me though: in the Chopin Nocturne it seems that many of the notes centered around the melody are flying around the stereo field, some in the centre, some to the left (at lower velocities). I love what you've captured and built; it's very alive and evidently a project of passion, but notes shifting around like that would prove very off-putting when playing or listening.



Heya, so this would just be the LR mic which intentionally (by default) has a large and sensitive stereo spread - it should all be cohesive in on a per note basis, and it can be reduced via the stereo width above it or removed by using other mics!



jeremiahpena said:


> I just bought it and have been playing for about 30 minutes. It's so very playable, unlike a lot of piano libraries I've tried, and the tone is wonderful. This will almost definitely become the main piano in my template. Great library!
> 
> But please please fix the knobs on the interface. You have to drag the mouse left/right rather than up/down (which every other library uses), and they are extremely sensitive. The smallest movement creates huge changes.



I'm glad you're enjoying it! And thanks for the feedback on the knob, won't be hard to adjust - we tend to prefer them to be left to right rather than up down (just personal preference) but if you would prefer an adjusted one just drop us a mail via our contact form (http://lightandsoundsamples.com/contact.html) and we'll see about getting an adjusted one!

In addition you can fine tune it by holding shift and moving, it will then be a lot less sensitive!


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## rottoy (Apr 4, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> Oh that's embarrassing! Yes that was indeed a typo! That's been updated
> 
> We added a new demo:
> 
> ...



That sounds absolutely wonderful. Is the piano sampled chromatically?


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## Simon Ravn (Apr 4, 2018)

Argh... I don't need more pianos - but this sounds so damn good I really need to consider it. Great work, guys!


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## prodigalson (Apr 4, 2018)

Aggh, I was born and raised in Cork (now living in NYC) and as a young, aspiring musician always looked up to my Uncle who was a technical consultant at Windmill Lane. He even almost got me a work experience placement there in secondary school but instead got me into the post-production house The Farm - not sure if they still exist - because he didn't think I'd be into the kind of music the were recording at Windmill Lane! I was so pissed! 

Anyway, biographical anecdotes aside, I love the idea of being able to pull up a piano that was recorded at Windmill Lane. In a weird way, it reminds me of home. And I'd love to support what I assume is an Irish based company?


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## Light and Sound (Apr 4, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> Aggh, I was born and raised in Cork (now living in NYC) and as a young, aspiring musician always looked up to my Uncle who was a technical consultant at Windmill Lane. He even almost got me a work experience placement there in secondary school but instead got me into the post-production house The Farm - not sure if they still exist - because he didn't think I'd be into the kind of music the were recording at Windmill Lane! I was so pissed!
> 
> Anyway, biographical anecdotes aside, I love the idea of being able to pull up a piano that was recorded at Windmill Lane. In a weird way, it reminds me of home. And I'd love to support what I assume is an Irish based company?



We're actually based in Cork that's so cool, and we're heading to NY in a few months for another project - and that's awesome to hear your uncle used to work there, whenever we record there it's always good to see the new talent coming up assisting - everyone is always so interesting and has great stories!

We are indeed an Irish company, living in Cork - I'm not sure if it's same, but there is indeed a post production house still part of windmill lane, operating under the name Windmill Lane Post Production


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## Zhao Shen (Apr 4, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> We didn't sample a set amount of velocity layers per note; instead after a number of tests during some extra time of recording the chamber strings, we found the best method was to sample each note based on the _timbre _changes, rather than trying to get fixed velocities.


Whoa. Quite an intriguing sampling technique. Turns out, it sounds quite good! How did you do the scripting for velocity mapping, if you're allowed to divulge such information? Just mapping the dynamics uniformly across the full range, or trying to match exact timbres together between notes? Seems like quite the hassle!


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## Light and Sound (Apr 4, 2018)

Zhao Shen said:


> Whoa. Quite an intriguing sampling technique. Turns out, it sounds quite good! How did you do the scripting for velocity mapping, if you're allowed to divulge such information? Just mapping the dynamics uniformly across the full range, or trying to match exact timbres together between notes? Seems like quite the hassle!



Evenly spaced was used for the initial testing, but I knew it would never stick, it would be an incorrect representation of the velocities of the actual piano. We had done some tests prior to recording and I developed a method that would, providing certain recording criteria was met, match them exactly to their correct position on the velocity map (assuming a midi keyboard that has completely correct midi response). We plan to use this in future libraries too, where applicable - makes it easier on the person sampling!

As a purely developer/business mind side note, it actually saved the ability to keep every sample we were happy with, even if it was extremely close to others; so it raised the value of the recording time substantially.

I can't reveal too much, but it involved using some features I believe are specific to cubase, some careful references, autohotkey programming and some pretty complex math


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## prodigalson (Apr 4, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> We're actually based in Cork that's so cool, and we're heading to NY in a few months for another project - and that's awesome to hear your uncle used to work there, whenever we record there it's always good to see the new talent coming up assisting - everyone is always so interesting and has great stories!
> 
> We are indeed an Irish company, living in Cork - I'm not sure if it's same, but there is indeed a post production house still part of windmill lane, operating under the name Windmill Lane Post Production



Ah fantastic. Well, I just pulled the trigger on the concert grand but I think I'll also get the chamber strings. Keep up the good work!


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## rottoy (Apr 4, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> Ah fantastic. Well, I just pulled the trigger on the concert grand but I think I'll also get the chamber strings. Keep up the good work!


The Chamber Strings really are exquisite, especially the tremolo articulation.


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## Gerbil (Apr 4, 2018)

Well I bought it earlier and I am really enjoying playing it. Masses of mic options so it's going to take some time to get properly familiar with it (that is a good thing btw). I really like the Jazz preset for classical as well; a very intimate, warm sound. Goes well with my VPC1.

I couldn't help peaking under the bonnet and all I could mutter was "my god!". Doing that can drive someone to the point of insanity. As explained above, each key has it's own specially sculptured layer - some incredibly close together. Bravo for making it all work so well.

If you're a piano library addict like me, you're going to want to check this one out.


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## kgdrum (Apr 4, 2018)

Hi,this sounds great but do you have any classical audio demos with less room ambience (closer mics)?
Thanks


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## rlw (Apr 4, 2018)

I've got to say, I am loving the sound of this piano. I have bought so much in the last 2 weeks that I need to slow down, but I hope I can get it together before the intro price is discontinued. I will keep watching this thread.


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## rlw (Apr 4, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> Light and Sound are proud to announce our Concert Grand, the famous Steinway C in Studio One, Windmill Lane in the Concert Position - designed specifically to work both as a solo piano for classical works, but also sits beautifully within a wide range of other genres and styles - true to the nature of Windmill Lanes proud recording history and unique acoustic space.
> 
> Following our commitment to making the most versatile and playable instruments, the new Concert Grand features 11 mic positions, comprised of the world's finest microphones and everything you could possibly expect from a modern piano VST. Including repedalling (continuous repedalling), half pedalling, sympathetic resonance (and repedalling sympathetic resonance!), true customizable pedal resonance and all the control you could ever ask for:
> 
> ...




--------------------
What were your mic setting for the Chopin Prelude in E minor .


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## chapbot (Apr 4, 2018)

Could we have a more pop-oriented demo with dry mics?


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## CGR (Apr 5, 2018)

Purchased a copy yesterday and had a quick play last night & this morning. First impressions are really good. The Calibrate function worked like a charm matching velocity response to my keyboard (Yamaha CP4 stage). Haven't had time to explore all the mic options and try out various combinations, but this is a highly flexible sampled piano in terms of shaping your tone it seems, and the various mics provide very different colours & sound stages which is brilliant. 

Just did a very quick A/B with one of my favourites - Garritan CFX, and in my experience the Light & Sound Piano matches it for playability and dynamics, and surpasses it for flexibility in my opinion. I think I'm liking the character of the Light & Sound Piano more too - the top end is really open with a wonderful hammer attack tone. I can hear why this piano was hand-picked by Elmer Bernstein from the Hamburg Steinway factory - it's obviously a stunning piano in a top tier studio, and Light & Sound have done a wonderful job sampling & scripting it.


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## axb312 (Apr 5, 2018)

Can we have demos with other instruments blended in as well?


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## Light and Sound (Apr 5, 2018)

rlw said:


> --------------------
> What were your mic setting for the Chopin Prelude in E minor .



Found below, mix bus within cubase was 2x stock cubase compressors (one subtle at 4:1 ratio, another more harsh) and a touch of limiting. Reverb was the one within the instrument.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 5, 2018)

chapbot said:


> Could we have a more pop-oriented demo with dry mics?





axb312 said:


> Can we have demos with other instruments blended in as well?



I'll see about getting some more demos up asap


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## Light and Sound (Apr 5, 2018)

kgdrum said:


> Hi,this sounds great but do you have any classical audio demos with less room ambience (closer mics)?
> Thanks


I'll be adding a mic demonstration video on one of the classical pieces, that will cover all the flavors possible


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## Light and Sound (Apr 5, 2018)

And here's the mic positions, raw out of the box, reverb disabled!


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## CGR (Apr 5, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> And here's the mic positions, raw out of the box, reverb disabled!



Really like those Decca Tree & Room mic perspectives. I achieved a nice balance yesterday with an Under + MKH80 + Neumann M149 mix. Just a thought for any future updates: a solo or mute button on each mic fader would be helpful, instead of having to manually move the faders down. Congratulations to the Light & Sound Team - stellar work. Given I own over 60 sampled/virtual pianos, it takes a lot to impress me these days!


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## tmhuud (Apr 5, 2018)

What a lovely tone. It’s quite a challenge for a piano library to set itself off from a majority of others but this succeeds at doing just that IMO.


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## OleJoergensen (Apr 6, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> And here's the mic positions, raw out of the box, reverb disabled!



It sounds great.
Even the manual explains the mic positions, some sort of picture/ diagram would be helpful.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 6, 2018)

OleJoergensen said:


> It sounds great.
> Even the manual explains the mic positions, some sort of picture/ diagram would be helpful.



This has been suggested and we agree- we'll be mocking something up and likely add it to the manual. Possibly the UI, but we're already looking at adding solo/mute buttons first and we'd rather not clutter it too much!


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## axb312 (Apr 6, 2018)

Which mic is the close mic so to speak...?

I'd also like to hear some demos covering various genres....


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## Light and Sound (Apr 6, 2018)

axb312 said:


> Which mic is the close mic so to speak...?
> 
> I'd also like to hear some demos covering various genres....



There are three "main" close mics - the LR and the p.Front and p.Rear. Using the p.Front and p.Rear together is generally recommended, however the option to replace the p.Rear for the m149 is there as an alternative to that specific mic too.

The rest of the mics are aimed to be complementary mics, however pianos are personal taste, and many users we've been speaking to have been finding their own personal favourites using various other mics - experimentation is definitely recommended!


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## axb312 (Apr 6, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> There are three "main" close mics - the LR and the p.Front and p.Rear. Using the p.Front and p.Rear together is generally recommended, however the option to replace the p.Rear for the m149 is there as an alternative to that specific mic too.
> 
> The rest of the mics are aimed to be complementary mics, however pianos are personal taste, and many users we've been speaking to have been finding their own personal favourites using various other mics - experimentation is definitely recommended!



What worries me a bit about the LR mic is it seems to have weird panning as someone mentioned earlier. What I hear is the same note bouncing around the stereo field. What I expect to hear is notes in the lower register more towards the left and higher registers more towards the right, with a good stereo spread enabled. What is the actual behavior of the library? Am I hearing things wrong ?


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## Light and Sound (Apr 6, 2018)

axb312 said:


> What worries me a bit about the LR mic is it seems to have weird panning as someone mentioned earlier. What I hear is the same note bouncing around the stereo field. What I expect to hear is notes in the lower register more towards the left and higher registers more towards the right, with a good stereo spread enabled. What is the actual behavior of the library? Am I hearing things wrong ?





The LR is shown there - the mics are moving around a bit and I do move the stereo field to expand it a bit, but it should be consistent.


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## CGR (Apr 6, 2018)

axb312 said:


> What worries me a bit about the LR mic is it seems to have weird panning as someone mentioned earlier. What I hear is the same note bouncing around the stereo field. What I expect to hear is notes in the lower register more towards the left and higher registers more towards the right, with a good stereo spread enabled. What is the actual behavior of the library? Am I hearing things wrong ?


The concept of bass notes to the left and treble to the right is a misrepresentation reinforced by how many digital pianos (and some sampled pianos) artificially spread the notes across the stereo field. This is not how a real acoustic piano's sound works, particularly when the tones blend. Close your eyes and play a grand piano with the lid up, and you'll hear a blending and merging of bass, tenor, mid & treble notes across the stereo field or soundstage, and the image evolves.


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## tack (Apr 7, 2018)

rottoy said:


> That sounds absolutely wonderful. Is the piano sampled chromatically?


Sampled chromatically above C2 (the C below middle C), and every whole note below C2.

At first I was intrigued by the "as many velocity layers as needed to capture the timbre" approach. Unfortunately I'm not sure how well that works in practice. Or at the very least I think I disagree with what was necessary for this piano based on my particular playing style. I do tend to spend a lot of time around p and below so I have a bad habit of really noticing the velocity zone boundaries in the quieter dynamics.

For example, I was just adlibbing with an arpeggiated C- triad below middle C on the left hand around pianissimo, and that Eb just kept popping out. I was playing the notes in the triad with a fairly even velocity and below a certain velocity the timbre felt nicely consistent, but after some threshold the C and G's timbre remained the same but at that velocity the Eb would push into the next layer and the timbre change would lurch out.

Of course I can reduce the probability of slipping into the next velocity zone by tweaking the velocity curve. But that only moves the problem to a different threshold.


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## axb312 (Apr 7, 2018)

tack said:


> Sampled chromatically above C2 (the C below middle C), and every whole note below C2.
> 
> At first I was intrigued by the "as many velocity layers as needed to capture the timbre" approach. Unfortunately I'm not sure how well that works in practice. Or at the very least I think I disagree with what was necessary for this piano based on my particular playing style. I do tend to spend a lot of time around p and below so I have a bad habit of really noticing the velocity zone boundaries in the quieter dynamics.
> 
> ...



Seemed to good to be true... 

Why not sample the whole piano chromatic ally...


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## tack (Apr 7, 2018)

axb312 said:


> Why not sample the whole piano chromatic ally...


Well, in fairness I do think it matters a lot less in the lower registers. You're generally not playing melodies with a lot of chromatic motion down there after all.


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## CGR (Apr 7, 2018)

tack said:


> Well, in fairness I do think it matters a lot less in the lower registers. You're generally not playing melodies with a lot of chromatic motion down there after all.


I agree. It also makes for a more efficient and less resource demanding instrument (especially with multiple Mic's) with a neglible trade off in terms of sound.


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## axb312 (Apr 7, 2018)

tack said:


> Well, in fairness I do think it matters a lot less in the lower registers. You're generally not playing melodies with a lot of chromatic motion down there after all.



I feel like this coupled with the Timbre based sampling could be an issue. On it's own it's probably ok yes...


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## CGR (Apr 7, 2018)

axb312 said:


> I feel like this coupled with the Timbre based sampling could be an issue. On it's own it's probably ok yes...


Hmmm. Interesting point. Maybe the developer Paul can contribute his thoughts on this, given he did the sampling by hand and would know the piano extremely well.


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## JEPA (Apr 7, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> And here's the mic positions, raw out of the box, reverb disabled!




brutal!


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## JEPA (Apr 7, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> This has been suggested and we agree- we'll be mocking something up and likely add it to the manual. Possibly the UI, but we're already looking at adding solo/mute buttons first and we'd rather not clutter it too much!



an idea would be to add the diagram into the instrument in a Kontakt tab, to have quick access to what is being done while in a rushing production, instead of looking into the manual?...


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## chapbot (Apr 7, 2018)

I need to hear a demo with quarter and half notes in it


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## jamwerks (Apr 8, 2018)

Great job on this one!


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## axb312 (Apr 9, 2018)

Any news on the demos and the other stuff requested on here?


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## Light and Sound (Apr 9, 2018)

Heya,

The mute and solo buttons have been added in the latest nkr, available within the manual or https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gw2HOGqV3Huw8tRP0UxaD4QnlUTvUl3n (here). New users will still get this by default with their purchase and won't need to update.

The manual itself has also been updated to reflect the change, along with a display of the positions of the mics. We chose not to add this to the UI to avoid clutter. The manual can always be downloaded directly to your drive from google drive if you prefer, too (file-download as). We do recommend microphones based on their sound instead of their positioning.

Another demo will be coming soon, along with official review(s).

Cheers!
Paul



CGR said:


> Hmmm. Interesting point. Maybe the developer Paul can contribute his thoughts on this, given he did the sampling by hand and would know the piano extremely well.



On our original recording during blind tests we found that anything above G1 didn't matter, so we played it safe and went with C2 for whole tones to keep the size down. The differences in velocities were as true to this piano as possible (and feels just like playing the real thing to me). This _can_ be smoothed out just like other pianos do using a simple EQ filter based on the frequency of the note played, however it not only degrades the sound but also creates a false representation of this specific piano.


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## dhowarthmusic (Apr 9, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> Found below, mix bus within cubase was 2x stock cubase compressors (one subtle at 4:1 ratio, another more harsh) and a touch of limiting. Reverb was the one within the instrument.



What is your mic setup for the Chopin Nocturne demo?

I noticed when loading the presets only the mic faders change position and not the panning and stereo widening. Is this intentional or do you plan on fixing this so each preset loads the correct mic panning too?


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## Light and Sound (Apr 9, 2018)

dhowarthmusic said:


> What is your mic setup for the Chopin Nocturne demo?
> 
> I noticed when loading the presets only the mic faders change position and not the panning and stereo widening. Is this intentional or do you plan on fixing this so each preset loads the correct mic panning too?



Heya,

The preset was the ff piano collections preset, with a touch of the rears added in, all pannings and stereo width at their default position.

As for the preset for Panning and width it was intentional; the pannings and width help to reshape the room to your own liking, the presets can then still be used as a set of mixed mics for the room you'd shape (but can still be reset to default with ctrl click)


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## dhowarthmusic (Apr 9, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> Heya,
> 
> The preset was the final fantasy piano collections preset, with a touch of the tears added in, all plannings and stereo width at their default position.
> 
> As for the preset for Panning and width it was intentional; the plannings and width help to reshape the room to your own liking, the presets can then still be used as a set of mixed for the room you'd shape (but can still be reset to default with ctrl click)


Thanks for the tip about ctrl click getting the panning back to default.

Because there are so many mic positions a solo button would be really useful. The same for your Chamber Strings.

Congratulations on your new piano. Both the piano and your Chamber Strings are great products.


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## newman (Apr 9, 2018)

Wonderful and alive piano sound.

Given quality sound demos, playability comments here, and philosophy of the "producer," I will have to add this one to my growing piano collection.


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## axb312 (Apr 10, 2018)

Yep definitely needs a lot more demos.. In a mix... Playing different genres etc.. Etc..


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## slobajudge (Apr 10, 2018)

Just bought it, downloading at the moment.


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## Ran Zhou (Apr 10, 2018)

Bought and Played, nice sound!


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## Ran Zhou (Apr 10, 2018)

Here's my limited improvised play with it
With reverb


With noreverb


Piano : Light and Sound Concert Grand (default preset)
String Solo: Spitfire Alternative Solo Strings
REV: RC24


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## slobajudge (Apr 11, 2018)

Here is my short view about it. Piano has beautiful sound no doubt, probably the most beautiful I ever heard in the world of sample pianos. But this piano needs update. I can`t say better than user Bsntn99 from piano world forum, so I quote:
` Some of the notes have a small number of velocity layers, five in at least one case. So number of layers is not as high as was quoted and what I listed at the top. These smaller number layers cover p and f, but nothing in between, so there is a big jump in timbre. Not sure what happened during sampling why the in between layers were not captured. For some of these, the f layers are set too low and intrude when playing mid velocity notes. I made a few edits to increase the velocity trigger for these f layers, so much improved. I saved these as a custom nki and will keep working to tweak to my liking given the limitations on the layers.
As I indicated, the repedaling is very aggressive and I can only get one catch repedal on the higher keys and maybe one or sometimes two on the lower keys compared with 3-4 on the CFX. There is also some strange interaction with the half pedal setting and the repedaling behavior that makes it a bit inconsistent. If you can live with these issues, it is a beautiful sounding piano with a good dynamic range. The various mic presets cover a lot of ground and are nicely set up. I'll let them know my findings once I play a bit more and gather up all my notes`. End of quote.
I hope for update. Don`t leave us on this beautiful piano project Light and sound.


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## axb312 (Apr 11, 2018)

slobajudge said:


> Here is my short view about it. Piano has beautiful sound no doubt, probably the most beautiful I ever heard in the world of sample pianos. But this piano needs update.
> I can`t say better then user Bsntn99 from piano world forum, so I quote: ` Some of the notes have a small number of velocity layers, five in at least one case. So number of layers is not as high as was quoted and what I listed at the top. These smaller number layers cover p and f, but nothing in between, so there is a big jump in timbre. Not sure what happened during sampling why the in between layers were not captured. For some of these, the f layers are set too low and intrude when playing mid velocity notes. I made a few edits to increase the velocity trigger for these f layers, so much improved. I saved these as a custom nki and will keep working to tweak to my liking given the limitations on the layers.
> As I indicated, the repedaling is very aggressive and I can only get one catch repedal on the higher keys and maybe one or sometimes two on the lower keys compared with 3-4 on the CFX. There is also some strange interaction with the half pedal setting and the repedaling behavior that makes it a bit inconsistent. If you can live with these issues, it is a beautiful sounding piano with a good dynamic range. The various mic presets cover a lot of ground and are nicely set up. I'll let them know my findings once I play a bit more and gather up all my notes`. End of quote.
> I hope for update. Don`t leave us on this beautiful piano project Light and sound.


Thank you for that detailed insight. I hope Paul and his team are reading and can fix some/ all these issues before the intro period ends...


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## yafna (Apr 11, 2018)

slobajudge said:


> Here is my short view about it. Piano has beautiful sound no doubt, probably the most beautiful I ever heard in the world of sample pianos. But this piano needs update. I can`t say better than user Bsntn99 from piano world forum, so I quote:
> ` Some of the notes have a small number of velocity layers, five in at least one case. So number of layers is not as high as was quoted and what I listed at the top. These smaller number layers cover p and f, but nothing in between, so there is a big jump in timbre. Not sure what happened during sampling why the in between layers were not captured. For some of these, the f layers are set too low and intrude when playing mid velocity notes. I made a few edits to increase the velocity trigger for these f layers, so much improved. I saved these as a custom nki and will keep working to tweak to my liking given the limitations on the layers.
> As I indicated, the repedaling is very aggressive and I can only get one catch repedal on the higher keys and maybe one or sometimes two on the lower keys compared with 3-4 on the CFX. There is also some strange interaction with the half pedal setting and the repedaling behavior that makes it a bit inconsistent. If you can live with these issues, it is a beautiful sounding piano with a good dynamic range. The various mic presets cover a lot of ground and are nicely set up. I'll let them know my findings once I play a bit more and gather up all my notes`. End of quote.
> I hope for update. Don`t leave us on this beautiful piano project Light and sound.


I agree completely.
The sound is very very beautiful,but the roughness of the layer is conspicuous.
I think that there's a little room for improvement.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 12, 2018)

Hey all,

Just an update; we have an update to cover velocity smoothing as mentioned by a concerned few above - it will be an option you can disable and enable in settings, we're just doing a bug test/sanity check on it all and once we're happy we'll roll it out to everyone 

Cheers,
Paul


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## al_net77 (Apr 12, 2018)

Hi, there is a bump noise in the release sample in the highest velocity of highest G note... can you check?


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## Light and Sound (Apr 12, 2018)

And we also have a beautiful Jazz demo from Craig Richards


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## Light and Sound (Apr 13, 2018)

Ok, updates will be rolling out later tonight! Keep an eye on your email 

We also have another demo graciously provided by Craig Richards:


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## slobajudge (Apr 13, 2018)

Thank you for fast response, your piano is very inspiring. Can you tell us in details about problems that updates resolve ? Is this what we are talking above ? Thank you.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 13, 2018)

slobajudge said:


> Thank you for fast response, your piano is very inspiring. Can you tell us in details about problems that updates resolve ? Is this what we are talking above ? Thank you.



It smooths the transition between velocity layers when appropriate. I'm actually intentionally not going to go in to details about _how _it does it (anyone who wants to find out can pretty easily since we keep the instrument unlocked) but instead see if it feels better to people, since that's the most important thing to us - if it feels and sounds like an improvement, then the process of how we did it shouldn't matter


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## yafna (Apr 13, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> Ok, updates will be rolling out later tonight! Keep an eye on your email
> 
> We also have another demo graciously provided by Craig Richards:



I was able to confirm dramatic improvement.
Updates leave nothing to be desired.
Let me express my heartfelt appreciation to all of the staff.
I have many piano libraries, but this library is by far the most beautiful.


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## axb312 (Apr 13, 2018)

So we have jazz and classical...missing some epic/ cinematic demos and perhaps some rock imo...

Also, people who have already downloaded this, please post your demos as well!


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## Light and Sound (Apr 13, 2018)

A beautiful new improv provided by Rabih Rihana, he named this "Contrasts"


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## star.keys (Apr 13, 2018)

Wonderful instrument... Version 1.4 makes it near perfect


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## slobajudge (Apr 14, 2018)

Really excellent, thank you Light and sound, but one note still sound not so good, middle C, (According to Yamaha C3), harsh tone comes to early with light to medium pressure. Can you fix it ? Thank you


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## Light and Sound (Apr 14, 2018)

Another demo, in a softer style this time, from Craig Richards , "Always". Enjoy!


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## OleJoergensen (Apr 14, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> Another demo, in a softer style this time, from Craig Richards , "Always". Enjoy!



Ths piano has such a beautiful tone.


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## tehreal (Apr 14, 2018)

Anyone else getting these script warnings in Kontakt:


SCRIPT WARNING (Line: 1946, Script: 0): group "*** normale smooth rr3 ***" not found - index will be invalid!

The warning shows up constantly (with rr# varying). What does this mean? Is my installation bad? I'm on 1.14.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 14, 2018)

tehreal said:


> Anyone else getting these script warnings in Kontakt:
> 
> 
> SCRIPT WARNING (Line: 1946, Script: 0): group "*** normale smooth rr3 ***" not found - index will be invalid!
> ...



Sounds like you loaded up the original release version with the new script. The new instrument should be the one that has v1.14 at the end 

If you have it in a project previous to the update, just update the instrument with the new one you downloaded in the update!


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## tehreal (Apr 14, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> Sounds like you loaded up the original release version with the new script. The new instrument should be the one that has v1.14 at the end
> 
> If you have it in a project previous to the update, just update the instrument with the new one you downloaded in the update!



Yep, you're right (user error, as usual for me  ). Thanks!!


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## StillLife (Apr 14, 2018)

Any chance of NKS?


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## richard kurek (Apr 14, 2018)

updated to 1.14 velocity curve doesnt function , checked with 1.1 thats fine


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## Light and Sound (Apr 14, 2018)

richard kurek said:


> updated to 1.14 velocity curve doesnt function , checked with 1.1 thats fine


Heya! Can you try updating to this nki https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gw2HOGqV3Huw8tRP0UxaD4QnlUTvUl3n (here) (also found in the manual) should now work 

Alternatively you can redownload the update and it will also be there!


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## richard kurek (Apr 14, 2018)

Light and Sound said:


> Heya! Can you try updating to this nki https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gw2HOGqV3Huw8tRP0UxaD4QnlUTvUl3n (here) (also found in the manual) should now work
> 
> Alternatively you can redownload the update and it will also be there!


perfect thank you


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## PaulBrimstone (Apr 15, 2018)

My goodness, this is one sweet piano, even right out of the box. I'm having a bunch of fun fiddling with the extensive mic options, and there's a lot more to play with yet. I have a lot of pianos, and this one is already up in my top five.

Just one niggle, though, Paul: those unreadable script labels on the mic positions are hurting my head. Any chance of changing them to a simple sans font?


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## Will Blackburn (Apr 15, 2018)

Does sound nice but everything i've heard so far sounds drenched in room/reverb. Is that how it is otb or can you get a closer/dryer sound?


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## richard kurek (Apr 15, 2018)

wcb123 said:


> Does sound nice but everything i've heard so far sounds drenched in room/reverb. Is that how it is otb or can you get a closer/dryer sound?


you can somewhat get it dryer , as any library , i pulled some sound out just tweaking mics , haven't spent enough time but the results are good , and i agree reverb kills demos usually too much


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## CGR (Apr 15, 2018)

wcb123 said:


> Does sound nice but everything i've heard so far sounds drenched in room/reverb. Is that how it is otb or can you get a closer/dryer sound?


You can get a closer sound using the LR mics along with the Under (mono) mic - let me know if you'd like to hear an example. This sampled piano really shines with the more distant mics such as the Room & Decca tree mics.


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## axb312 (Apr 15, 2018)

CGR said:


> You can get a closer sound using the LR mics along with the Under (mono) mic - let me know if you'd like to hear an example. This sampled piano really shines with the more distant mics such as the Room & Decca tree mics.



I would like to hear an example..


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## CGR (Apr 15, 2018)

axb312 said:


> I would like to hear an example..


Sure - give me a few minutes and I'll upload a quick demo here.


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## CGR (Apr 15, 2018)

OK, here's some simple solo playing using the p.Rear + p.Front mics + the mono Under mic. No internal or external reverb, just some mild compression on the master output in Logic.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/l-s-concert-grand-close-demo-mp3.12919/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/l-s-concert-grand-close-demo-mp3.12919/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## CGR (Apr 15, 2018)

And a screen shot of the settings I used:


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## CGR (Apr 15, 2018)

Noticed that the Rear mic is panned right & Front mic panned left by default, so here's the same playing with the Front mic panned 3 o'clock & the Rear mic panned 9 o'clock. (similar to a 'player' perspective):

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/l-s-concert-grand-close-demo-reverse-pan-mp3.12921/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/l-s-concert-grand-close-demo-reverse-pan-mp3.12921/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## keepitsimple (Apr 15, 2018)

You can see the layout of all microphones with the image i attached. The "under" microphone is good as complimentary to the other mics if you want more body to that bass. It's recommended to set the slider around the middle (more or less).


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## Garlu (Apr 16, 2018)

Oh my... I thought I was set with piano libraries...!


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## Light and Sound (Apr 18, 2018)

Here's the naked version of 3:20am by Craig Richards, raw Piano


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## axb312 (Apr 20, 2018)

Still waiting for those reviews....


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## slobajudge (Apr 20, 2018)

axb312 said:


> Still waiting for those reviews....


Well, I have all big names in VST piano world and lots of small ones, also I am a big fan of Pianoteq which I love very much. When I bought this piano from Light and sound it is a first time when I felt that I don`t need anything else. Far from technically perfect, but it is a Steinway finally. After so many Steinways vst, this is a first where I finally hear acoustic piano and not some processed wav files. Garritan CFX is probably the most sweetest and technically perfect sample piano. After 5 minutes of playing CFX I was start to thinking what to order next. Pianoteq is another world. Almost digital perfection. Everything is working. I love it. But in the sample world after this piano it is hard to imagine more authentic and so much character in sample piano. But thats me. Use discount if still apply and go for it and see for yourself.


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## VinRice (Apr 20, 2018)

Middle C still sounds weird...


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## slobajudge (Apr 20, 2018)

VinRice said:


> Middle C still sounds weird...


Agree, I send a mail to Light and sound about middle C, this is the only key I wish to change. They say that it is a part of his character and they do not want to change that and they explain to me how to do it in scripting if I am not satisfied. My intention was to move-expand low velocity middle C sound sample which is fine, to go more up to high velocity to avoid early trigger of this weird sound sample in middle velocity except when I play really loud. But after some posts in Piano world forum I think that Light and sound prepare new second big update for this piano and they will change some things. First update to 1.14 is very good. No matter middle C I will still order this piano again. I love it.


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## richard kurek (Apr 20, 2018)

VinRice said:


> Middle C still sounds weird...


yes i agree , lets correct this and keep this library on top


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## axb312 (Apr 20, 2018)

slobajudge said:


> Well, I have all big names in VST piano world and lots of small ones, also I am a big fan of Pianoteq which I love very much. When I bought this piano from Light and sound it is a first time when I felt that I don`t need anything else. Far from technically perfect, but it is a Steinway finally. After so many Steinways vst, this is a first where I finally hear acoustic piano and not some processed wav files. Garritan CFX is probably the most sweetest and technically perfect sample piano. After 5 minutes of playing CFX I was start to thinking what to order next. Pianoteq is another world. Almost digital perfection. Everything is working. I love it. But in the sample world after this piano it is hard to imagine more authentic and so much character in sample piano. But thats me. Use discount if still apply and go for it and see for yourself.



Read the pianoworld stuff. Was a little unclear to me. Do they agree it is a great piano or not? Can it be compared to or does it surpass the CFX or not...?


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## slobajudge (Apr 20, 2018)

axb312 said:


> Read the pianoworld stuff. Was a little unclear to me. Do they agree it is a great piano or not? Can it be compared to or does it surpass the CFX or not...?


Garritan cfx have so much love in Piano world forum. I agree that it is an excellent piano almost perfect sample piano. I dont think that many users in Piano world forum order LSCG yet, but some users obviously love it. I delete my Garritan CFX from laptop after Light and sound concert grand. CFX is just boring compare to LS Steinway C, this piano is more alive and lets say more imperfect, more like piano. Beauty lies in small details. There is no way to help you more then this to decide. You must jump on one or the other or both to bring your conclusions. Better both, because you will do this anyway.


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## Gerbil (Apr 20, 2018)

slobajudge said:


> Garritan cfx have so much love in Piano world forum. I agree that it is an excellent piano almost perfect sample piano. I dont think that many users in Piano world forum order LSCG yet, but some users obviously love it. I delete my Garritan CFX from laptop after Light and sound concert grand. CFX is just boring compare to LS Steinway C, this piano is more alive and lets say more imperfect, more like piano. Beauty lies in small details. There is no way to help you more then this to decide. You must jump on one or the other or both to bring your conclusions. Better both, because you will do this anyway.



I'm afraid I have to disagree. I do like the LS but it has a few flaws that still need ironing out (notes flying around the stereo field, the aforementioned middle C etc) and suffers, like so many other sampled pianos, from needing to be tweaked depending on the style and manner of the music that you're playing. For instance, the Chopin Eb Nocturne demo sound is very nice but the second you start trying to play some leggiero staccato passagework it sounds like its been recorded in a kitchen. You can choose other mics that will work a lot better but then you loose the richness of the above sound. Rabih Rihana's demo kind of demonstrates it: The smoother, legato passages sound terrific but the heavy staccato passage sound almost like max velocity on a clavinova to me.

This is not to say that I dislike the piano; I very much enjoy playing it and it can do many things well and for the price it's a steal; I'd definitely buy it again. But it does seem to have limitations and there are quite a few mic combinations that I find a bit wearing on the ear after a while. Again this is something that I find with many sampled pianos.

I'd love for someone to produce a classical demo that can demonstrate real flexibility in a single work but that takes better engineering chops than I have. There aren't many pianos that can really do it. The old Garritan Steinway was very good in its time but sadly abandoned (I wish their team would have another go at a Steinway D). The Vintage D is pretty good as well.

The CFX is a Yamaha and less colourful than a Steinway but I find it immediately much more flexible. You can go from beautiful pianissimo bell-like tones to furious percussive staccato/marcato passages and everything in-between without having to compromise. I can play a concerto movement on it and not feel like I need to switch presets. For me it's still the standard to beat.


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## chasmanian (Apr 20, 2018)

Hi slobajudge,
I am thinking about getting LSCG.
I have CFX.
And I have Pianoteq Standard Steinway models B and D, Grotrian, Bluethner, K2 and YC5.

Would you please possibly have any thoughts about me getting LSCG, even though I have all those Pianoteq instrument packs?


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## slobajudge (Apr 20, 2018)

Gerbil said:


> I'm afraid I have to disagree. I do like the LS but it has a few flaws that still need ironing out (notes flying around the stereo field, the aforementioned middle C etc) and suffers, like so many other sampled pianos, from needing to be tweaked depending on the style and manner of the music that you're playing. For instance, the Chopin Eb Nocturne demo sound is very nice but the second you start trying to play some leggiero staccato passagework it sounds like its been recorded in a kitchen. You can choose other mics that will work a lot better but then you loose the richness of the above sound. Rabih Rihana's demo kind of demonstrates it: The smoother, legato passages sound terrific but the heavy staccato passage sound almost like max velocity on a clavinova to me.
> 
> This is not to say that I dislike the piano; I very much enjoy playing it and it can do many things well and for the price it's a steal; I'd definitely buy it again. But it does seem to have limitations and there are quite a few mic combinations that I find a bit wearing on the ear after a while. Again this is something that I find with many sampled pianos.
> 
> ...


You said everything that I said also but with more words. Where is disagree ?  It is far from perfect like I said and you also but it is so cute to play isn`t it ? Almost like infection


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## slobajudge (Apr 20, 2018)

chasmanian said:


> Hi slobajudge,
> I am thinking about getting LSCG.
> I have CFX.
> And I have Pianoteq Standard Steinway models B and D, Grotrian, Bluethner, K2 and YC5.
> ...


Hmm, I was in the same boat like you, but all those instruments doesn`t help me much with G.A.S. After LSCG I feel so much in balance with it . If you feel the same then go for it. The truth is you don`t need it and the same is for me, but I have no regrets.


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## prodigalson (Apr 20, 2018)

guys, this is commercial announcement thread. Please don't mention competitors products.


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## chasmanian (Apr 20, 2018)

thank you very much.
slobajudge I edited my post after reading prodigalson's post, and PM'ed you.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 21, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> guys, this is commercial announcement thread. Please don't mention competitors products.



It's OK, when it comes to pianos especially, taste is everything and there's so many out there. Seeing everything in one place and everyone's thoughts/comparisons helps us gather feedback easier


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## axb312 (Apr 21, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> guys, this is commercial announcement thread. Please don't mention competitors products.



There would be a hundred threads with one or two posts in them...Why not keep the forum open and just discuss all aspects of a product, including it's competition?

Anyhow, it's good to see L&S welcoming all feedback positively....


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## prodigalson (Apr 21, 2018)

axb312 said:


> There would be a hundred threads with one or two posts in them...Why not keep the forum open and just discuss all aspects of a product, including it's competition?
> 
> Anyhow, it's good to see L&S welcoming all feedback positively....



Just articulating a long held point of etiquette on here that has caused some conflict in the past that newer members may not be aware of. It's generally requested that in paid commercial announcements we don't start promoting other products. But by all means, if L&S is ok with it then fire away.

but not all developers are ok with it.


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## bsntn99 (Apr 21, 2018)

I wanted to come here and summarize my thoughts from another forum after having spent some time with LASCG. I compose as well as play, but wanted to approach this mainly from a pianist point of view. For reference, I have played a number of acoustic grands, have probably 15+ piano libraries, and have a Kawai CA-95 and Yamaha Mox8. I also have made and edited a number of libraries, so am vary familiar with the programming especially within Kontakt.

My main issue is that for some of the notes, C3 and D3 for example, the transitions from mezzo to forte are not smooth and there is a large jump in timbre that is hard to control. I also personally feel some of these transitions are not aligned well from note to note making it hard to control. LAS pointed out to me that they believe their approach to sampling and alignment is correct, and has made some effort to smooth out some of the transitions with v1.14. I did show an example of the mapping for LASCG vs. Grandeur for example on another forum, and indeed the developer has taken a completely different approach to what I have seen in other libraries. The smoothing with v1.14 has only been applied to C#3 and below. It has somewhat improved the situation, but not for notes D3 and above of which there are several issues. These has been no change however in the alignment of layers from note to note. I believe LAS is still working on this.

The second issue I have is with the pedaling. Repedaling is quite aggressive and I only get 1-2 repedals vs. 4-5 on the libraries and keyboards I mentioned above which are consistent in their behavior and I believe to be correct. Repedaling also interacts with the half pedaling such that sometimes you catch a repedal note and sometimes a half pedal note with the volume jumping around a bit. Most libraries that have both, have this well sorted out through their scripting. For now I just leave the half pedal setting off.

One minor nit is that I think the interface is a bit too big for a 1080p monitor and would like to see it a bit smaller so that you could have the keyboard and master open at the same time, and see the full vst interface. All in all this is a beautiful sounding library with great dynamic range and much more authentic sounding that other Steinway libraries I have. I think this could be a top tier library with the issues mentioned above by me and others addressed. I want to stress these are my own opinion and I know LAS has a different view on many of these things. In the end, I welcome additional improvements from LAS.


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## Ran Zhou (Apr 22, 2018)

bsntn99 said:


> a bit too big for a 1080p monitor


Very professional comments! I felt large interface was probably deemed by GUI developers as a new trend in VI design now. HZ strings, Arturia Synth Instrument both have large GUI but the GUI can be resized. Not sure if Kontakt will support this kind of function.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 23, 2018)

7 days left on the introductory price!


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## axb312 (Apr 23, 2018)

Less than 7 days to release some more demos and respond to queries regarding dynamic layers....


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## Light and Sound (Apr 23, 2018)

axb312 said:


> Less than 7 days to release some more demos and respond to queries regarding dynamic layers....



Since your original request for more demos on April 5th:


axb312 said:


> Can we have demos with other instruments blended in as well?



There have been 6 more demos added, I've also covered the dynamic layers issue (and provided an optional update with added smoothing) and responded (on multiple forums) regarding the intent, style and philosophy of our instrument. I'm not really sure what else you're asking of us, we have videos demonstrating mics etc and we do actually have more demos than some other pianos that have been released recently, even wet and naked demos.


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## axb312 (Apr 23, 2018)

From April 13th ,

"
So we have jazz and classical...missing some epic/ cinematic demos and perhaps some rock imo...

Also, people who have already downloaded this, please post your demos as well!"

And there's a post here from April 21st with some points which haven't been addressed yet (in this thread)...

Cheers anyway and thanks for the responses so far...


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## chasmanian (Apr 27, 2018)

bought it. love it. 
thank you to Light and Sound Paul, for answering all my questions and superb level of support.
highly recommend getting this one.
extra super glad I took the plunge on this.


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## bsntn99 (Apr 28, 2018)

I guess what I am hearing from Light and Sound from the comment above is that v1.14 is the final update. This has not addressed the pedalling issues and only provided some smoothing for C#3 and below missing a large number of problematic notes above this.

People should be aware of these issues as they will stand out in scoring as well as playing. For scoring, pedalling most likely will not be an issue, but you will have to adjust your velocities to avoid the layer transition issues.

I'm disappointed that LAS indicated they were taking additional feedback and continuing to work on improvements, but now does not seem to be the case. If this is the final version, it would be good to hear this for sure for LAS; otherwise, it will be up to you if you are adept at programming Kontakt to make any further improvements.


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## Light and Sound (Apr 28, 2018)

bsntn99 said:


> I guess what I am hearing from Light and Sound from the comment above is that v1.14 is the final update. This has not addressed the pedalling issues and only provided some smoothing for C#3 and below missing a large number of problematic notes above this.
> 
> People should be aware of these issues as they will stand out in scoring as well as playing. For scoring, pedalling most likely will not be an issue, but you will have to adjust your velocities to avoid the layer transition issues.
> 
> I'm disappointed that LAS indicated they were taking additional feedback and continuing to work on improvements, but now does not seem to be the case. If this is the final version, it would be good to hear this for sure for LAS; otherwise, it will be up to you if you are adept at programming Kontakt to make any further improvements.


We're still taking additional feedback, still working on other improvements, already have some things that will help but looking for a better solution. To be clear though, the solution you provided over at pianoworld with AET will *not *be implemented though, because as I mentioned over there, it not only increases CPU usage, but also causes artifacts on some systems (while it might work in a vaccuum, we've been able to successfully causes non musical artifacts on at least 4 test systems) and would require lowering the sample rate to alleviate, which is just not something we want to do.

We're working on a more radical solution which might take a bit more time since, as we also mentioned on pianoworld, we hit the cap of what kontakt will allow us to do - we tend to have a pretty good record with chamber strings so far with providing updates and additional features, these things take time though to find a solution that works on all systems, not just on one and provides a musical result, rather than just a result that works in theory.

Edit: I also want to make clear that this is only to provide smoothing between some of the layers, where each sample is positioned is still correct based on that exact piano.


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## bsntn99 (Apr 28, 2018)

Thank you for your update and am glad you have not dropped the ball here to continue to work on improvements. As far as AET, it can be used very selectively to not produce artifacts with reproducible results. The problem is that with certain samples, the FFT algorithm result produces phasing issues and this does tend to happen with 48k and multiples of this (i.e. 96k) samples. It can be used sparing avoiding these problematic samples. I accept and have no problem with you pursuing other methods to add smoothing. Thanks again for confirming you are still working on this and other issues people have mentioned.


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## OleJoergensen (Apr 28, 2018)

Can I ask, is the Piano recorded at 440 hz or 442?


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## suchtreble (Apr 28, 2018)

chasmanian said:


> bought it. love it.
> thank you to Light and Sound Paul, for answering all my questions and superb level of support.
> highly recommend getting this one.
> extra super glad I took the plunge on this.


Hi Chasmanian, these sound wonderful to me and highly versatile. How well do you feel this piano would be in an orchestral piece? Not long until the deal ends and I'm very interested.


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## chasmanian (Apr 28, 2018)

hi suchtreble,
I just play piano for my own enjoyment. and I play it solo. so I don't know.
maybe email Light and Sound, and ask them? they're very responsive and helpful.

and I will say again that I love it. I thought long and hard, and read and and listened to everything before buying it. 
and I have only scratched the surface checking it out.
but oh what a nice surface!!


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## suchtreble (Apr 29, 2018)

chasmanian said:


> hi suchtreble,
> maybe email Light and Sound, and ask them? they're very responsive and helpful.


Many thanks, I did! And you were right, Paul was very helpful. Think I might take the plunge while I still can.


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## chasmanian (Apr 29, 2018)

ah good.
Paul's a good guy!!
hoping you love it, if you get it!!


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## ridgero (Apr 30, 2018)

wow, the loading time is immense on my pc.


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## axb312 (Jun 13, 2019)

Have there been any further updates to the concert grand @Light and Sound ?


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