# Raven Music - My first trailer track release



## dannymc (Dec 21, 2017)

hey guys i recently started to gradually make that transition from epic music to trailer and i had the great opportunity to write something for long term VI member Jaap Visser who alot of you will know. 

Jaap has just started his own label Raven music and i'm delighted to hear that he has signed my first trailer piece. thanks Jaap for the opportunity and look forward to working together on some new exciting projects. 

here is the track, hope you guys like it and let me know what you think. 



p.s. i recently purchased the aspiring trailer composer course from evenant and this was my first track after completing that course. i think it really helped me alot in making this track. highly recommend it for anyone looking to get into trailer composing 

Danny


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## Jaap (Dec 21, 2017)

Thanks Danny! And I want to add that this track was written for a brief with a only a few days to produce the tracks and you delivered nicely Danny on such a short notice!
Unfortunately the trailer house we worked with did not get his trailer selected in the end.


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## thov72 (Dec 21, 2017)

nice work on the fx and production but you keep repeating similar chord progressions over and over and over in your pieces. Sorry but I think this helps more than just saying: "Well done, bro!"

btw Stravinsky once said a similar thing about Vivaldi...so take my comment easy


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## dannymc (Dec 21, 2017)

> but you keep repeating similar chord progressions over and over and over in your pieces. Sorry but I think this helps more than just saying



no problem man everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is probably because my main focus has been production for this past year. anyway i like the progressions i use, if you've come up with some killer ones i should be using i'm all ears, post something here and i'll learn what i should be doing 

Danny


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## Lassi Tani (Dec 21, 2017)

Great track! I think it needs some glue between the parts, perhaps a theme or a rhythmic element that you're developing over the trailer track. At the moment the parts are kind of separate and don't quite lead to the next bigger part. I think it could benefit from bigger and bolder risers, not just the riser fx, but the music itself. Hope this gives some ideas .


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## patrick76 (Dec 21, 2017)

thov72 said:


> nice work on the fx and production but you keep repeating similar chord progressions over and over and over in your pieces. Sorry but I think this helps more than just saying: "Well done, bro!"
> 
> btw Stravinsky once said a similar thing about Vivaldi...so take my comment easy


This is a common critique here about trailer music. It is true he does repeat the progressions but that is exactly what most of these tracks do. They don't want complex harmonic language. They don't want melodic development. They want a vibe and piece that can be edited easily. I mean I get it, but in this context it is appropriate. I forget who said this, and it might have been someone on VIC (it was a guy doing trailer music full time) but he said that basically simplicity is a religion to these people (trailer music supervisors). So I think the piece is successful by the criteria most of the trailer music places are looking for.


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## Jaap (Dec 21, 2017)

patrick76 said:


> This is a common critique here about trailer music. It is true he does repeat the progressions but that is exactly what most of these tracks do. They don't want complex harmonic language. They don't want melodic development. They want a vibe and piece that can be edited easily. I mean I get it, but in this context it is appropriate. I forget who said this, and it might have been someone on VIC (it was a guy doing trailer music full time) but he said that basically simplicity is a religion to these people (trailer music supervisors). So I think the piece is successful by the criteria most of the trailer music places are looking for.



Yup indeed Patrick. The trailer editor also came with quite a specific brief and an example that followed this “simple” structure. The strength and also difficulty lies in creating and maintaining the right ambience, build, tension and create it like that so that it also has good sync and edit points.


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## kurtvanzo (Dec 21, 2017)

patrick76 said:


> They don't want complex harmonic language. They don't want melodic development. They want a vibe and piece that can be edited easily.


Yes, and they want something that will sit well under dialog well. Every piece of trailer music should be listened to with the idea that dialog needs to work in it, and the picture (and what's happening in it) is the main focus. In this context this music works very well, and any complexity would get lost in all the cutting scenes. Essentially they want the music to pull together all the fast cuts into something that seems cohesive without getting in the way of what's there. Not a simple feat to say the least. Congrats, I look forward to hearing more.


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## thov72 (Dec 21, 2017)

it is not the chord progression itself that bothers me. The chord progression is fine, but repeating it endlessly bothers me, lo strings arpeggios always going 3rd - 5th -3rd -root. The repeat the same thing in hi strings. Third part: Similar to second part, louder and added choir sustains. Espec the third part would have been a great opportunity to develop some melodic stuff..... 
Of course I´m not a trailer specialist, so.... well.....
if that´s what people are looking for, I should shut up and compose my own stuff


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## dannymc (Dec 21, 2017)

thov72 said:


> it is not the chord progression itself that bothers me. The chord progression is fine, but repeating it endlessly bothers me, lo strings arpeggios always going 3rd - 5th -3rd -root. The repeat the same thing in hi strings. Third part: Similar to second part, louder and added choir sustains. Espec the third part would have been a great opportunity to develop some melodic stuff.....
> Of course I´m not a trailer specialist, so.... well.....
> if that´s what people are looking for, I should shut up and compose my own stuff



actually for a start act one is not the same chords as the rest of the track, but act 2 and 3 are the same of course. i would suggest listening to some trailer tracks and you'll hear this is pretty much a rule, or better still take the evenant course 

Danny


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## mc_deli (Dec 21, 2017)

You know I am a fan. I liked the opening mood and there were some great production moments (e.g. 1:19 awesome) but... you lost me at 0:49 to be honest. Just not interesting enough musically for me. In a genre that can often be unsatisfying for me because it can be so predictable, I think you need a little more magic than this to make it fly.


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## dannymc (Dec 21, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> You know I am a fan. I liked the opening mood and there were some great production moments (e.g. 1:19 awesome) but... you lost me at 0:49 to be honest. Just not interesting enough musically for me. In a genre that can often be unsatisfying for me because it can be so predictable, I think you need a little more magic than this to make it fly.



hey man thanks for listening and thanks for your comments. for my first tracks while i find my feet in this genre i don't want to stray too far away from the generic as i can tend to go off on mad tangents hehe. but over the next year i plan to keep getting better and gradually start experimenting more. 

Danny


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## Desire Inspires (Dec 21, 2017)

A good start. I can hear the potential for greatness.

Keep putting in that work!


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## BenG (Dec 21, 2017)

Really like what you have thus far, Danny!

As for trailer music structure, simple is definitely better and you are on the right track  I would keep the same progression throughout as you have it and try to use more orchestration techniques to keep things interesting for the listener. 

IMO, this is one of the biggest challenges in the trailer music genre. Here are some orchestration aspects you can use to create more variety and tension. Some are more obvious than others...

- *Dynamics* (p - mp - mf - f)
- *Instrumentation* (Build from Solo/Soli all the way to Tutti)
- *Rhytmic Sub-beat* (8th Note Division, 16th Note Division, 32nd Triplet Note Division, etc.)
- *Counterpoint* (Add Counter-Melodies!)
- *Range* (Increase the range from 1-Octave to 5-Octaves as the piece progress)
- *Harmonic Extensions* (Chord extensions for more colour

These are just a few tips that could help with adding some interest to your track without changing it's repetitive structure. Hope this helps!


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## Carles (Dec 21, 2017)

I also did put a toe in the trailer waters recently, and despite I've used two or three different motives per track myself, I can see the logic behind a repetitive scheme.
Rarely a full track is used in trailers but a few seconds from several tracks and sound FX assembled according the visual content or more specifically the intended feeling for that content.

If a track, has the same progression (assuming the editor find the progression a good match for an act, or part of it) with a good range of different dynamics from a softer beginning to a bombastic ending, the editor can always pick the precise dynamic for that specific moment whatever it will be. If too loud he only has to step back a little in time and if too soft just move forward a bit (these tracks are usually building up to a big end). I think it can make things easier to the editor.

As a result, it doesn't work so well as regular music for listening but within a pro-to-pro market it makes perfect sense.

My very latest released album is in fact worst than repetitive from a listening point of view. It's a set of 30 orchestral tension tracks where every track sounds ugly as hell (no much beauty on tension, horror, fear, madness, trouble, etc.) so the album brief was not conceived as music for listening at all, but as an orchestral tension palette covering 30 different tension moments to be combined with something else. These can work fine in diverse scenarios from trailers to nature documentaries while cannot sell as regular music.

Production music is not always nicely memorable and cool. There is a need of all sort of music to cover all sort of emotions and scenarios, beauty or not.

As a variant of a multi-dynamic repetitive track, you can also use different progressions (with different dynamics too) interlaced with the main progression so it would become more "iTunes compatible", but that makes the track definitely longer (as longer as progressions are used) and implies much more work per track and at the end could not sell well anyway as regular music (unless you're Two Steps from Hell or so .


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## jhughes (Dec 21, 2017)

At 0.40 the string shorts feel a bit distant to me, like they could be hitting me between the eyes a bit more. I'm not sure if that's due to panning/reverb/eq or what. At the same time, that might be the effect you wanted for this trailer music? A subjective sort of thing... 
I think the part 1:20-2:10 goes on a bit too long at one dynamic level for my tastes. You could easily play with that more if you wanted via automation/orchestration.


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## dannymc (Dec 22, 2017)

Carles said:


> I also did put a toe in the trailer waters recently, and despite I've used two or three different motives per track myself, I can see the logic behind a repetitive scheme.
> Rarely a full track is used in trailers but a few seconds from several tracks and sound FX assembled according the visual content or more specifically the intended feeling for that content.
> 
> If a track, has the same progression (assuming the editor find the progression a good match for an act, or part of it) with a good range of different dynamics from a softer beginning to a bombastic ending, the editor can always pick the precise dynamic for that specific moment whatever it will be. If too loud he only has to step back a little in time and if too soft just move forward a bit (these tracks are usually building up to a big end). I think it can make things easier to the editor.
> ...



spot on Carles. realizing and being able to create music that is to act as a support to the editor and not get in the way of the voice over is really hard and is often taken for granted. i think the thing that brilliant trailer composers excel in more than anything is being able to do this and at the same time please the audience enough to excite them about the film. i have a real respect for these guys, its definitely an art form in itself and i'm determined to get better at it going forward. its not supposed to be a symphony its supposed to be functional and more importantly licenseable.

Danny


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## Carles (Dec 22, 2017)

dannymc said:


> i have a real respect for these guys, its definitely an art form in itself


So do I. Funnily enough I was minded otherwise ("such a simplistic harmony", "so basic and particular orchestration", "I can do that with my left pinky while holding a sandwich in my right hand" I thought, but that was until a day when out of curiosity I actually tried to produce something like that myself.
Indeed harmony and orchestration was easy, but not the rest so that test probed that I was unable to make it properly. Despite I have a recent trailer music release (a full album at Gothic Storm) I realize about how much I have to learn about that genre.
Other guys, might have more difficulties for handling harmony and orchestration but a gift for handling sound and emotion in the genre. Yes, as you say, it's an art form in itself.

EDIT: BTW, my trailer album, was finally produced because Dan (Gothic Storm owner) did heavily assisted me track by track teaching me what could work and what not. Otherwise I could not have courage enough to release it by my own. Was fun, but not an easy task for my too classical minded way.


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## dannymc (Dec 22, 2017)

> EDIT: BTW, my trailer album, was finally produced because Dan (Gothic Storm owner) did heavily assisted me track by track teaching me what could work and what not. Otherwise I could not have courage enough to release it by my own. Was fun, but not an easy task for my too classical minded way.



wow thats great Carles i'm sure its fantastic. is there anywhere we can go listen? 

Danny


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## Carles (Dec 22, 2017)

dannymc said:


> wow thats great Carles i'm sure its fantastic. is there anywhere we can go listen?


Sure thing
https://harmony-music.sourceaudio.com/#!explorer?b=4499824
Still you will appreciate possibly too much traditional influence in there? (cannot avoid that) so I believe is not sounding like the guys with that modern sense, but hopefully some seconds from here or there could work in some trailers. Fingers crossed with that!

EDIT: Forgot they have released a video preview.
You can get the overall idea spending less time than listening all tracks one by one


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## Lassi Tani (Dec 22, 2017)

Carles said:


> Sure thing
> https://harmony-music.sourceaudio.com/#!explorer?b=4499824
> Still you will appreciate possibly too much traditional influence in there? (cannot avoid that) so I believe is not sounding like the guys with that modern sense, but hopefully some seconds from here or there could work in some trailers. Fingers crossed with that!
> 
> ...




Wow that's a great album! But a trailer producer might say "It sounds too classical", or "It's too complex". I wouldn't say that, because I want to fight against rules :D, but for a trailer, those might not work, because they aren't like usual trailer music with string ostinatos, braams, risers, simple rhythm and other trailer music cliches. I'd be happy to hear different kind of trailer music with stories, themes and melodies.


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## Carles (Dec 22, 2017)

sekkosiki said:


> Wow that's a great album! But a trailer producer might say "It sounds too classical", or "It's too complex". I wouldn't say that, because I want to fight against rules :D, but for a trailer, those might not work, because they aren't like usual trailer music with string ostinatos, braams, risers, simple rhythm and other trailer music cliches. I'd be happy to hear different kind of trailer music with stories, themes and melodies.


Thanks! Yeah, I don't see it on any Marvel-like blockbuster either, but while these type of bombastic trailers come to mind first when we talk about the genre is true that there are many type of trailers with different needs, from comedy to drama, fantasy, horror, romance, etc.
In all cases, a more "complex or too classical" approach most likely sells less but it's also inherent that the life span is longer.
Trailer music is always a tough bet.
As you say, fighting against the rules is not necessarily a bad thing. Is true that we all start getting a bit tired about that epic cliché used originally in trailers is now used on almost everything, and following the logic of the short lifespan for whatever is fashionable for a moment, begins to sound outdated/bored/abused (starts happening currently) to finally remain as representative of a past era and with it the lifespan of those thousand (millions?) of tracks.
This business is always complicated and risky. I think many of us can tell about tracks that you never expect that were used at all becoming good sellers and vice-versa.


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## dannymc (Dec 22, 2017)

Carles said:


> Thanks! Yeah, I don't see it on any Marvel-like blockbuster either, but while these type of bombastic trailers come to mind first when we talk about the genre is true that there are many type of trailers with different needs, from comedy to drama, fantasy, horror, romance, etc.
> In all cases, a more "complex or too classical" approach most likely sells less but it's also inherent that the life span is longer.
> Trailer music is always a tough bet.
> As you say, fighting against the rules is not necessarily a bad thing. Is true that we all start getting a bit tired about that epic cliché used originally in trailers is now used on almost everything, and following the logic of the short lifespan for whatever is fashionable for a moment, begins to sound outdated/bored/abused (starts happening currently) to finally remain as representative of a past era and with it the lifespan of those thousand (millions?) of tracks.
> This business is always complicated and risky. I think many of us can tell about tracks that you never expect that were used at all becoming good sellers and vice-versa.



also dont forget an awful lot of a trailer publishers revenue these days comes from other avenues other than big cinema Hollywood blockbusters. alot of this stuff is very popular with tv studios around the world and so there is a great chance to get placements on tv.

Carles your album sounds really great. Danny Elfman better watch out 

i dont think Dan Graham would of signed it if he didn't feel those tracks could find a home. i'm sure you will get lots of fantasy program TV placements with this one.

Danny


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