# Native Instruments lays off 100 people



## funnybear (Sep 4, 2019)

Seems some reorganisation happening over at Native Instruments:
https://ask.audio/articles/native-instruments-lays-off-100-people-whats-going-on

I personally hope that this means they are decreasing their focus on hardware and increasing their investment into the Komplete ecosystem with more outside developer / hardware support etc.

Never understood the logic for not opening Komplete Kontrol to other hardware manufacturers (with the latest release you can now at least map generic controllers to the main functions) because that would help establish Komplete Kontrol as a standard much faster.


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## LinusW (Sep 4, 2019)

Following rumours of staff layoffs and disquiet, Native Instruments has responded with an official statement regarding the state of its business.
The headlines are that the company is centralising its operations and reducing its headcount by 20%. Around 100 staff are being laid off, most of whom are based at NI’s Berlin headquarters.

Full article: https://www.musicradar.com/news/nat...-layoffs-a-restructure-and-a-unified-platform


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## AndyP (Sep 4, 2019)

NI feels the pressure of the other big players on the market.
EW, VSL have already their own platform.
OT and Spitfire have and develop their own software.

Kontakt has some limitations that are not quite up to date anymore.

It will be exciting to see what comes from NI.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 4, 2019)

AndyP said:


> NI feels the pressure of the other big players on the market.



Not really, this is the result of a completely different set of circumstances.

Kontakt still has the widest userbase, whereas all other samplers you mentioned are very niche, and closed to 3rd parties. No comparison. Don't forget NI doesn't market to composers only, whereas EW, VSL and OT most certainly do. That's just a single small niche.

Also, NI's livelihood doesn't at all depend on Kontakt alone!


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 4, 2019)

I don't think this has a lot to do with VSL, EW, OT, SF or even with the sample library market in general. It's probably more to do with general/usual exec idiocy than anything else.


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## AndyP (Sep 4, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Kontakt still has the widest userbase, whereas all other samplers you mentioned are very niche, and closed to 3rd parties. No comparison. Don't forget NI doesn't market to composers only, whereas EW, VSL and OT most certainly do. That's just a single small niche.
> 
> Also, NI's livelihood doesn't at all depend on Kontakt alone!


I agree with you that way. 

But I also believe that the niche players will change the market in the medium term.


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## Symfoniq (Sep 4, 2019)

> “Customers today are expecting a seamlessly integrated experience when consuming and accessing creative goods and services,” says Mate Galic, Native Instruments’ Chief Innovation Officer and President. “We are confident that we can offer music producers worldwide a unique and premium experience by connecting our existing ecosystem of award-winning software and hardware to a centralized online service.


​Subscription service confirmed?


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## LinusW (Sep 4, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Also, NI's livelihood doesn't at all depend on Kontakt alone!


Yeah, they are a big company doing keyboards and other hardware, not just depending on Kontakt even though I think Kontakt 6 was a bit too late.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 4, 2019)

AndyP said:


> But I also believe that the niche players will change the market in the medium term.



Personally I don't think so. Maybe very slightly and only in this certain small niche, but not completely across the board.


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## jamwerks (Sep 4, 2019)

One article talked about the HW departments being hits. The Keyboards with sw integration might not have worked that well, and maybe even Machine?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 4, 2019)

Where is NI headed? Some official and unofficial answers - CDM Create Digital Music


Native Instruments has responded to our request for more clarity on recent layoffs and how this impacts their future plans. Other sources tell us there have been deep cuts into teams managing products, marketing, and design.




cdm.link


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## JohnG (Sep 4, 2019)

Businesses ebb and flow. I don't think outsiders can reliably infer from layoffs what's "really" happening in a company.

I am not saying that those who were let go were bad workers or bad people, and I hope they find good jobs elsewhere. But, often, employees can feel when they are overstaffed and it's sometimes a relief to get it over.

In fact, sometimes it's both necessary and beneficial -- not singling NI out here -- but when someone is not carrying his weight or there are just too many bodies for the work coming in, usually everyone knows. Sometimes, it's a bit of a reward to better performers when people who aren't as strong or as well-suited are let go. 

Everybody always knows it. It's a sign of good management sometimes when things get leaner, difficult though it is for those directly affected, at least in the short run.


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## jamwerks (Sep 4, 2019)

I've been expecting them to come out with a Omnisphere copy for years.


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## Erick - BVA (Sep 4, 2019)

Not really sure I like Adobe and NI being mentioned in the same article...


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## gsilbers (Sep 4, 2019)

corporate talk is halarious to me.

“We strongly believe that by improving accessibility and usability of our portfolio, we will be able to provide an enhanced and more cohesive experience, both for existing and new customers,” says the statement.

“In the past, we expanded in different product lines, which was also reflected in our organizational structure. Our platform vision, however, requires a much more collaborative approach, having all parts of the company work together towards one common goal.”




and remembering when NI got like 60 millions bucks investment a few months ago










Native Instruments Just Got A $59 Million Investment: What Next? - DJ TechTools


While the DJ community continues to watch Native Instruments with a simplistic "when will we see Traktor Pro 4?" lens, the Berlin-based company has been busy raising cash. They've received a massive investment of $59,000,000 from EMH, a private equity firm. Keep reading for the details.




djtechtools.com




which normally doesnt come without strings attached.


and reading some random interesting posts:
Reddit Thread


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## joyneski (Sep 4, 2019)

Yeah, the Glassdoor reviews are...interesting... 








Native Instruments Reviews


138 Native Instruments reviews. A free inside look at company reviews and salaries posted anonymously by employees.




www.glassdoor.co.uk


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## GtrString (Sep 4, 2019)

It's a bit scary, considering how much so many of us rely on Kontakt libraries..


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 4, 2019)

Someone please pull the plug if I'm ever heard uttering caricature corporate-speak like the bullshit in the first paragraph of that Ask Audio interview.

That paragraph alone may be the explanation. Organizations ruled by fear can't be fearless.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 4, 2019)

Is anyone else a fan of "Succession?"

That language reminds me of Kendall when he walked in and shut down the company they bought.


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## patrick76 (Sep 4, 2019)

joyneski said:


> Yeah, the Glassdoor reviews are...interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. Pathetic. It's amazing how so many companies do the same thing. It must be a fundamental institutional process they all adhere to. What a waste!


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## Audio Birdi (Sep 4, 2019)

If upper management have no clue. Then I doubt they’ll be around for too long considering the amount of huge layoffs.


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## PaulieDC (Sep 4, 2019)

> Creating deeply integrated experiences between hardware and software remains at the core of our vision. However, we want to deliver more value to users of our hardware by implementing new features in the software that will allow for a better overall experience of our ecosystem.



Translation: "we finally got it in our greedy heads that we have Apple pricing on our stuff and almost never run a whopper of a sale, therefore the competition has us painted in a corner."

As for hardware, the newer A series is probably selling like hotcakes so expect a less expensive and cheaper-made flagship keyboard series to emerge. For Light Guide fans you may want to pull the trigger now if you've been waiting, before they're gone, lol!



Just some fun speculation...


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## gsilbers (Sep 4, 2019)

maybe these threads should merge







Native Instruments confirms staff layoffs, a restructure and a “unified platform”


Following rumours of staff layoffs and disquiet, Native Instruments has responded with an official statement regarding the state of its business. The headlines are that the company is centralising its operations and reducing its headcount by 20%. Around 100 staff are being laid off, most of whom...



vi-control.net






if thats a thing. i have no idea how it works.. just now that ive seen poeple asking about merging threads


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## AllanH (Sep 4, 2019)

It's remarkable that Kontakt is not mentioned directly in the press release. No wonder Spitfire and Orchestral Tools felt they had invest themselves.


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## chocobitz825 (Sep 4, 2019)

AllanH said:


> It's remarkable that Kontakt is not mentioned directly in the press release. No wonder Spitfire and Orchestral Tools felt they had invest themselves.



Weird because I recall 8DIO making a cryptic video talking about their ideal sampler/player as well. Maybe kontakt’s days are numbered.


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## Mike Greene (Sep 4, 2019)

We had three threads on this, so I merged them into one. My apologies for the messiness, but three threads on the same topic was unwieldy. I also moved this to Sample Talk.


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## Iskra (Sep 5, 2019)

AllanH said:


> It's remarkable that Kontakt is not mentioned directly in the press release. No wonder Spitfire and Orchestral Tools felt they had invest themselves.


Apparently there have been a 250 headcount reduction in the last couple of years, and I imagine that has been _vox populi _within the industry. I doubt Spitfire and OT (and probably many others aware of the NI difficulties) didn't thought of a contingency plan in case NI goes south. In the case of SA and OT, is it a coincidence that they received new investors and moved into their own player as a safety net in case NI really have deep problems? I doubt it is a coincidence. I don't know about OT's number of employees, but Spitfire got 50 people they have to take care of. 
I'm pretty sure other developers have been at least looking into UVI, Machfive or Halion and checking if it should be feasible for them to port their libraries to another software sampler/rompler...I would do that if if I owned a company like this.
It has never been wise to put all your eggs into one basket.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 5, 2019)

The Kontakt team is safe and sound, guys. NI knows it's one of their most important products.


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## OT_Tobias (Sep 5, 2019)

Iskra said:


> In the case of SA and OT, is it a coincidence that they received new investors and moved into their own player as a safety net in case NI really have deep problems? I doubt it is a coincidence.



Just for the record (because people already emailed me): OT does _not_ have investors, neither do we have a board or a similar structure. Totally normal privately-owned company.
Just wanted to make that clear before it becomes "accepted fact" like some other falsehoods that are swirling around


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## Wunderhorn (Sep 5, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> Not really sure I like Adobe and NI being mentioned in the same article...



The difference there should be mentioned that Adobe's philosophy has been to declare the customer as the enemy, forcing an exploitative and privacy intrusive business model on them. I haven't had this feeling from NI and I hope they do not look to Adobe as a role model.
Generally it is always problematic when companies or organizations become too large. The larger they get the more estranged they become to their customers and also from management to lower ranking employees. A good sweet spot would aim for a good balance which enables a company to stay responsive and in touch with their customers and the chain of information does not dead end in an offshore call center.


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## José Herring (Sep 5, 2019)

AndyP said:


> I agree with you that way.
> 
> But I also believe that the niche players will change the market in the medium term.


You're assuming that sample based composers are the biggest market. We are a pimple on the horses ass compared to the sheer volume of hip hop based synth producers out there. 

I also use Reason and belong to a Reason group on facebook. I seriously think I'm the only orchestral based composer in the group.


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## Iskra (Sep 5, 2019)

OT_Tobias said:


> Just for the record (because people already emailed me): OT does _not_ have investors, neither do we have a board or a similar structure. Totally normal privately-owned company.
> Just wanted to make that clear before it becomes "accepted fact" like some other falsehoods that are swirling around


Sorry if I implied that with my post, I was referring to SA which have publicly said to have received new investors / funding, not OT. My bad for the lack of clarity in the phrasing, entschuldigung!
:-(


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 5, 2019)

OT_Tobias said:


> Just for the record (because people already emailed me): OT does _not_ have investors, neither do we have a board or a similar structure. Totally normal privately-owned company.
> Just wanted to make that clear before it becomes "accepted fact" like some other falsehoods that are swirling around



to be fair OT libraries feel like the BMW of sampling. 

definitely a luxury item, so I dont blame them. 

that said, hurry up on that sampler, my ram is crying


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## Lindon (Sep 5, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> The Kontakt team is safe and sound, guys. NI knows it's one of their most important products.


IS it ? Great - tell us how you know this?


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## jaketanner (Sep 5, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Not really, this is the result of a completely different set of circumstances.
> 
> Kontakt still has the widest userbase, whereas all other samplers you mentioned are very niche, and closed to 3rd parties. No comparison. Don't forget NI doesn't market to composers only, whereas EW, VSL and OT most certainly do. That's just a single small niche.
> 
> Also, NI's livelihood doesn't at all depend on Kontakt alone!


I have to agree here.. Kontakt is a widely used platform and it's not just a player, it's a pretty powerful sampler as well...I think NI benefits quite a lot from the pop/Urban markets that all have gear like Maschine and such...

Truthfully, companies that have started with Kontakt, then decided to create their own players are taking a risk. Example, Audiobro will be moving their LASS 3 to their new player instead of Kontakt...so for people that have LASS 2, it's not a simple upgrade, and would have to redo their templates and swap things out to use the new version...same with SF, and OT. Maybe in a few years this won't be an issue for new composers, but for those of us who created templates based of Kontakt, that presents a time consuming problem.


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## erica-grace (Sep 5, 2019)

Iskra said:


> In the case of SA and OT, is it a coincidence that they received new investors and moved into their own player as a safety net in case NI really have deep problems?



Where do people get off making these unfounded comments?



OT_Tobias said:


> Just for the record (because people already emailed me): OT does _not_ have investors, neither do we have a board or a similar structure. Totally normal privately-owned company.



Thank you for clearing that up


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## erica-grace (Sep 5, 2019)

joyneski said:


> Yeah, the Glassdoor reviews are...interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would trust the glassdoor comments and reviews about as much as I would trust a restaurant review on that restaurant's own website.

Fact is, some glassdoor reviews are put forth by people who never worked for the company they claim they worked for, and some other reviews are put forth by real ex-employees who have an axe to grind. Either they were laid off due to downsizing and are pissed off about it, so they take to glassdoor to exact revenge, or they were fired due to calling out sick too much or poor performance, so they take to glassdoor to exact revenge, or they were fired because their boss was an a-hole, so they take to glassdoor to exact revenge. Either way, you can NOT trust unverified reviews like that; they men nothing more than the proverbial paper they are printed on.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 5, 2019)

patrick76 said:


> Wow. Pathetic. It's amazing how so many companies do the same thing. It must be a fundamental institutional process they all adhere to. What a waste!


Wow, devastating comments, very sad situation. Must-read for all NI users...


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 5, 2019)

I assume the DJ /beat making hardware side is probably hurting

both because of cheaper alternatives and people just relying completely on software.


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## AllanH (Sep 5, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> The Kontakt team is safe and sound, guys. NI knows it's one of their most important products.



It's good to know that you, as someone with inside knowledge, is communicating on this. I wish that Native Instruments made a similar and official statement, as NI omitted Kontakt from their press statement.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 5, 2019)

Personally, I don't think this is about strategy, or about Kontakt, or about the competition in the market, or about whether any particular device is successful or not. Everything they are saying publicly makes zero sense to me. As a publicist for many decades, I know public relations talk when I hear it.

I agree 100% with @EvilDragon. This has nothing to do with their future plans for Kontakt and NKS, which are huge cash cows for them. Other companies send them money every day for this thing whether they make the GUI resizeable or not.

I think it's about money. They are cutting costs across the board. There is no easy logic to it, like, for example, declaring Sounds.com a bust and firing the people who worked on it. And as I have said in another thread, I think the reason for this is the $59 million dollar investment in 2017 from the private investment firm, Digital Growth Fund.

The private equity firm thought they could increase profits significantly, perhaps with new products and initiatives. When not enough money came in, then the only way to increase profits is to fire people.

If I am wrong, then everything will go beautifully with their "reorganization." I wish them well, as I love their products and I have liked dealing with their staff.

If I am right (and I don't want to be right), they will continue to fire people.

But the last thing they would want to do would be get rid of stuff like Kontakt or NKS that mints money from other people's work. All you need is one person at a desk to collect all the checks. Of course, I suppose they could offshore that job to Bangalore.


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## AndyP (Sep 5, 2019)

josejherring said:


> You're assuming that sample based composers are the biggest market. We are a pimple on the horses ass compared to the sheer volume of hip hop based synth producers out there.
> 
> I also use Reason and belong to a Reason group on facebook. I seriously think I'm the only orchestral based composer in the group.


I don't rule out that I'm too limited in my thinking scheme. Maybe it's also because I'm not a friend of kontakt and want a sampler that is more up to date, with basic functions (routing the outputs) that are easier to use.
As a multitimbral Ampler / player I like (Play or) Halion better.

So my opinion is rather the desire for change after the facts concerning the news about NI. My mistake!


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## Digivolt (Sep 5, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> If I am right (and I don't want to be right), they will continue to fire people.



The problem with these companies firing people is they usually fire the wrong/innocent people, upper/middle management are generally safe yet they're usually the root of the issues when a company beings to stagnate and ideas begin to flounder


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## AllanH (Sep 5, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> ...
> 
> I think it's about money. They are cutting costs across the board. There is no easy logic to it, like, for example, declaring Sounds.com a bust and firing the people who worked on it. And as I have said in another thread, I think the reason for this is the $59 million dollar investment in 2017 from the private investment firm, Digital Growth Fund.
> 
> ...



I think there's a lot of "truth" in this analysis. My primary concern is that once the investors starts driving the company and asking for improved returns, typically strategy plays 2nd fiddle to short term returns. I hope they have a retention plan in place for the key developers; those folks can easily find work elsewhere.


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## dsblais (Sep 5, 2019)

This is all very normal stuff for electronic instrument manufacturers. Margins are slim, competition is active, and the industrial economics are easy to measure. It’s unlikely to negatively affect their software development as that tends be high profit margin, especially with a good brand to trade upon. It’s a very capitalistic business move, but not at all shocking.


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## gsilbers (Sep 5, 2019)

AllanH said:


> It's remarkable that Kontakt is not mentioned directly in the press release. No wonder Spitfire and Orchestral Tools felt they had invest themselves.



well, its also the part that NI takes a chunk of each sale and upfront encoding of the library. if they are investing so much for the recordings, editing scirpting etc so later NI takes a chunk just because they are market leader on samplers then it makes sense for them to do their own sampler. its a sampler and its not 2006 when other companies tried doing their own sampler like PLAY (Pro? lol) and failed so hard until recently. they dont need much for a strings library sampler besides a few specific things. they dont need next level gui stuff. so for them and 8dio makes sense to do it as they are so prominent and we know they will last long enough to update installers. but output did the same. and more will follow. 
i dont think much will change though besides a few companies who have the budget to make their own samplers. this NI stuff seems more of an operational cut mainly due to pleasing outside investors.


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## Erick - BVA (Sep 5, 2019)

Digivolt said:


> The problem with these companies firing people is they usually fire the wrong/innocent people, upper/middle management are generally safe yet they're usually the root of the issues when a company beings to stagnate and ideas begin to flounder


I was kind of thinking this same thing myself. What led them to the state they are in right now? 
You don't fire people just because. You don't go into it thinking "we're going to fire some people at this future date." Would those employees even have taken the job had they thought they'd be fired in such a way?
So whomever is steering the ship led up to the circumstances where they needed to fire some people (or at least thought they needed to). And unfortunately, the very people who are responsible for the mismanagement leading to firings, are often insulated from the ramifications. So it is the little guy who gets jerked around and screwed. 
Who is to blame? Of course we all know if a company gets large enough, politics will start to play a larger role, and identifying who mismanaged becomes a more and more elusive task. Who would be willing to admit mistakes?
Ultimately I think companies that fire employees like this are unwilling to take responsibility for their own mistakes, and rather than take a pay cut, they'd just assume fire people. But even according to their own statements they were not suffering significantly (financially). So, why not give the benefit of the doubt to the employees and trust that if you "refocus" your managerial efforts, that that will trickle down to the creative employees?
The irony is that the completely callous behavior towards their employees may be a direct result of them being too large, so there is not a feeling of personal responsibility towards their employees, and so the act of firing is that much easier. "well....we're only letting 100 people go...better than 500" 
I wonder how many employees NI started with. Would it have been easy to fire 2 employees if they started with 4?
I actually think this is a problem in general of corporate cultures. When they get large, they can't seem to manage as effectively, and they end up having to fire people at the "lower levels."
Heck, this is coming from a capitalist libertarian. I just hate the cold, calculated aspect of corporations though.
And their public statements were about as cryptic and vague as you can get.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 5, 2019)

Lindon said:


> IS it ? Great - tell us how you know this?



Should be quite easy to put 2 and 2 together


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## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 5, 2019)

Digivolt said:


> The problem with these companies firing people is they usually fire the wrong/innocent people, upper/middle management are generally safe yet they're usually the root of the issues when a company beings to stagnate and ideas begin to flounder





AllanH said:


> My primary concern is that once the investors starts driving the company and asking for improved returns, typically strategy plays 2nd fiddle to short term returns. I hope they have a retention plan in place for the key developers; those folks can easily find work elsewhere.



Exactly. My friends in the movie business have gone through this many times. What happens is that the mediocrities hide, hoping that if they don't rock the boat, they won't get fired. The talented, bolder people know they have options and quit. This leads to a downward spiral, which requires more firings.

Who was one of the first people to leave after AT&T took over HBO? Richard Plepler, the man who put "Game of Thrones" into production.


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## AndyP (Sep 5, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Exactly. My friends in the movie business have gone through this many times. What happens is that the mediocrities hide, hoping that if they don't rock the boat, they won't get fired. The talented, bolder people know they have options and quit. This leads to a downward spiral, which requires more firings.


Is no different in our advertising industry. I've seen some takeovers myself and the fluctuation is generally very high. With every budget loss it rises again strongly. Some go themselves, others had to go. The quality of the skills rarely plays a role for those who had to go. Unfortunately.


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## Drago (Sep 5, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> What happens is that the mediocrities hide, hoping that if they don't rock the boat, they won't get fired. The talented, bolder people know they have options and quit.



Sorry but you are wrong, it's not the talented that would quit but the insecured ones. Some talented will stay with the opportunity to get promotions. The talented lazy ones will also stay. Everyone is different.


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## gsilbers (Sep 5, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> I was kind of thinking this same thing myself. What led them to the state they are in right now?
> You don't fire people just because. You don't go into it thinking "we're going to fire some people at this future date." Would those employees even have taken the job had they thought they'd be fired in such a way?
> So whomever is steering the ship led up to the circumstances where they needed to fire some people (or at least thought they needed to). And unfortunately, the very people who are responsible for the mismanagement leading to firings, are often insulated from the ramifications. So it is the little guy who gets jerked around and screwed.
> Who is to blame? Of course we all know if a company gets large enough, politics will start to play a larger role, and identifying who mismanaged becomes a more and more elusive task. Who would be willing to admit mistakes?
> ...



having worked in corporate, i agree. gets large, there are tons of politics involved and normally things takes a long time to do changes and after a while of piling on debt and doing organizational changes there has been do much time involved that its like the last straw and the breaking point is huge.


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## Erick - BVA (Sep 5, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> having worked in corporate, i agree. gets large, there are tons of politics involved and normally things takes a long time to do changes and after a while of piling on debt and doing organizational changes there has been do much time involved that its like the last straw and the breaking point is huge.


I actually understand they may need to do this. It's a painful process. However, along the way of growing larger and larger, it seems that their managing didn't adapt and they perhaps got involved in too many things. So they had to "trim the fat" as some have said.
Perhaps a bit ironic, but with fewer employees, and a more focused approach, they will be able to manage better (hopefully), and perhaps avoid situations like this in the future. But I'm just feeling for those who got taken for a ride.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 5, 2019)

We're heading towards a major recession.
Companies with foresight are preparing for it...


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## fiatlux (Sep 5, 2019)

josejherring said:


> You're assuming that sample based composers are the biggest market. We are a pimple on the horses ass compared to the sheer volume of hip hop based synth producers out there.
> 
> I also use Reason and belong to a Reason group on facebook. I seriously think I'm the only orchestral based composer in the group.


You're not the only one...me too!


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## P.N. (Sep 5, 2019)

I'm panicking.

I got 2 potencial buyers for my Komplete licence (who aren't too concerned or aware of the imminent NI apocalypse.)

Should i sell now and pull out while i can? 

Please advise.


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## C.R. Rivera (Sep 5, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> If I am wrong, let a thousand flowers bloom at NI from their "reorganization."


I wonder how many folks know the "thousand flowers" idea originated in 1957 as a way for Mao to "weed" out dissenters/UN-PC opponents in the CCP. Many met a 9mm heart-attack.

"Letting a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought contend is the policy for promoting progress in the arts and the sciences and a flourishing socialist culture in our land."

One might hope that, thus, the 1000 flowers of NI don't meet the same result.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 5, 2019)

C.R. Rivera said:


> I wonder how many folks know the "thousand flowers" idea originated in 1957 as a way for Mao to "weed" out dissenters/UN-PC opponents in the CCP. Many met a 9mm heart-attack.
> 
> "Letting a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought contend is the policy for promoting progress in the arts and the sciences and a flourishing socialist culture in our land."
> 
> One might hope that, thus, the 1000 flowers of NI don't meet the same result.


Thanks for writing this. I will never ignorantly use that metaphor again. I don't know how it got into my head. I might have got it from Jean-Luc Godard's film "La Chinoise," which was filled with quotes from the Little Red Book.

I looked it up, though. Mao's campaign was actually a "hundred flowers bloom." I made it ten times worse. 

To be clear, I wish the staff of NI the best. I do not want them to go to Chinese prisons.


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## tomosane (Sep 5, 2019)

I heard they're halting all future development of virtual instruments and will instead focus on a subscription service. Everyone please try to reprogram your brains so that you'll start yelling "SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE!!!!!!! SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" everytime you see the name Native Instruments, or merely the letters NI.


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## Loïc D (Sep 5, 2019)

That’s always the same story when investors come in.
First, they pat the back of the board « you guys are making fantastic job »
Then 6 months later, at least half of the board is fired, and all employees whose position is unclear or redundant are sent away.
I have seen that a long along my career in IT.
No hassle, they’ll just restructure, hire again and change strategy for more profit and growth.

Like Gibson did. Oh wait...


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## JEPA (Sep 5, 2019)

tomosane said:


> I heard they're halting all future development of virtual instruments and will instead focus on a subscription service. Everyone please try to reprogram your brains so that you'll start yelling "SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE!!!!!!! SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" everytime you see the name Native Instruments, or merely the letters NI.


Nubscribtion Iervice


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## Brian2112 (Sep 5, 2019)

I'm reading all this looking at my Kore 2...yup. No worries.


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## ism (Sep 5, 2019)

Brian2112 said:


> I'm reading all this looking at my Kore 2...yup. No worries.



Most expensive paperweight I've ever bought.


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## dgburns (Sep 5, 2019)

Never a happy thing to hear something like this


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## dpasdernick (Sep 5, 2019)

OT_Tobias said:


> Just for the record (because people already emailed me): OT does _not_ have investors, neither do we have a board or a similar structure. Totally normal privately-owned company.
> Just wanted to make that clear before it becomes "accepted fact" like some other falsehoods that are swirling around




Tobias,

This is the issue with OT. You need a board. You need 7-8 guys sitting in an over-designed conference room around a table as big as an aircraft carrier. Line the walls with really expensive art that no one really likes and have $1000 a square foot Persian rugs under your Guccis. Say things to each other like "I don't know Bob. I think the indicators are indicating indications". Or "The guys on the second floor with the television typewriters... Let's sack 90% of them. I need to buy another island" Or " What are the tax ramifications associated with sub-leasing one's own golf course back to their own shadow holdings company?" 

You guys need to create some redundant bloated overhead and get up to speed fast. Making outstanding sample libraries is all well and good but a 60 story building with your logo at the top of it is the real deal. Trust me.

Darren 
Chairman of the Board


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## Lindon (Sep 6, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Should be quite easy to put 2 and 2 together


So you are speculating then? You have no "inside" comms to NI? It's time to stop this messing about with the inferred "I know more about NI than you do" stuff, either you do and great - but tell us what that back-channel is and who to, or you dont in which case please stop presenting your opinion as some sort of secret information only available to you.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2019)

I _am _inside NI (well, to an extent, not an internal employee, but on renewable contract). Saw Modular Icons? Yours truly did it.

And yeah, I need to be careful with my comments. Hence often vague wording from my side.


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## 667 (Sep 6, 2019)

Unified Platform always means "new version of a thing that now does some of the things in the product we cancelled but not the thing you need it to do and also now it crashes a lot".

I was saving my pennies for a Maschine but I'm gonna put that on indefinite hold because NI already has a reputation for abandoning their hardware stuff and I'm sure we're gonna see more of that now.


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## funnybear (Sep 6, 2019)

I mean, I am a big fan of NI. Their value proposition with their Komplete collections is phenomenal and the spread and variety of sounds / especially for somebody starting out is great.

I had an S61 Mk1 and that synth keybed and overall integration with the Kontrol plugin and DAW is great.

But I fully understand that there is some house cleaning to be done, taking out some of the vertical duplication across the various product lines, especially in the current marketplace.

The employee reviews are disappointing (if true) but hopefully with a more streamlined platform strategy innovation and workforce motivation will turn around again.

I wish NI and their staff all the best!!


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## BezO (Sep 6, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> ...Saw Modular Icons? Yours truly did it...


Cool! And you always provide good support, here & on the NI forum.


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## ed buller (Sep 6, 2019)

this sucks. I had friends at NI in LA and this happened to them. They are a good company but I can't help feeling 11 years of global growth is moving behind us. I hope they all get hired soon

best

e


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## Tod (Sep 6, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> I _am _inside NI (well, to an extent, not an internal employee, but on renewable contract). Saw Modular Icons? Yours truly did it.
> 
> And yeah, I need to be careful with my comments. Hence often vague wording from my side.



So what does this mean to all of us out here Mario? 

What does this mean to the users? 

What does this mean to the developers?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 6, 2019)

Business as usual. Kontakt is alive and well and a staple of NI's catalogue as well as Reaktor. They aren't going anywhere.


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## newman (Sep 6, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> I _am _inside NI (well, to an extent, not an internal employee, but on renewable contract). Saw Modular Icons? Yours truly did it.
> 
> And yeah, I need to be careful with my comments. Hence often vague wording from my side.


Thanks again ED. 

Really appreciate your insights. Whenever I have music tech questions, your helpful posts seem to pop up at various forums. Even when the content is uber technical or propietary you have a good way of distilling intelligence.


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## robh (Sep 6, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Truthfully, companies that have started with Kontakt, then decided to create their own players are taking a risk. Example, Audiobro will be moving their LASS 3 to their new player instead of Kontakt...


I think you are misunderstanding what they've said. My understanding is that they have built an "engine" within Kontakt - in other words, a core script - that has already been used by their Genesis childrens choir and their most recent release, Modern Scoring Brass. It is this engine within Kontakt that LASS3 is moving too.
Unless there's other information I've missed??

Rob


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## P.N. (Sep 6, 2019)

robh said:


> My understanding is that they have built an "engine" within Kontakt



That's what i remember reading too.

Most companies name their engines even if they're scripted inside Kontakt.
Sometimes this can leave to some confusion on what the target product will be, specially if the engine is named after a previously released product.

For example, i'm currently working on a Kontakt product so i'm building a Kontakt engine, not a new sampler.
It's called "calculated unified node transform sequencer" engine for now, but i think i'll change it to something more memorable. 

Cheers.


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## robh (Sep 6, 2019)

P.N. said:


> That's what i remember reading too.
> 
> Most companies name their engines even if they're scripted inside Kontakt.
> Sometimes this can leave to some confusion on what the target product will be, specially if the engine is named after a previously released product.
> ...


I think that name's already taken.


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## P.N. (Sep 6, 2019)

Yeah, this is all too technical to get into details right now.


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## jaketanner (Sep 6, 2019)

robh said:


> I think you are misunderstanding what they've said. My understanding is that they have built an "engine" within Kontakt - in other words, a core script - that has already been used by their Genesis childrens choir and their most recent release, Modern Scoring Brass. It is this engine within Kontakt that LASS3 is moving too.
> Unless there's other information I've missed??
> 
> Rob


I think you are right also..they did email me that LASS 3 was going to use their new engine orchestra but I just assumed that it was a new player all together, since it won't be compatible with LASS 2...from what I understood them telling me. Either way, it's a compatibility issue then right?


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## P.N. (Sep 6, 2019)

jaketanner said:


> Either way, it's a compatibility issue then right?


From what i read, it's a just a different product. 

Do they specifically say "not compatible with LASS 2"? 

If so, they probably only meant the Kontakt Player that was available when LASS 2 came out.
Users who don't own Kontakt (full), and still only have the Kontakt Player that was around when LASS 2 came out, will need to download the most recent Kontakt Player which will work for both products.

Maybe that's it.


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## jaketanner (Sep 6, 2019)

P.N. said:


> From what i read, it's a just a different product.
> 
> Do they specifically say "not compatible with LASS 2"?
> 
> ...


not 100% sure, but when I mentioned the compatibility issue, he mentioned something about having to redo or at least rework the template. Didn't get into too many specifics...it's gonna be released from what they said, after the new year, but it's definitely coming. I couldn't wait in the meantime...LOl I was gonna try for LASS 2, but their list of articulations is a bit lacking for my needs at the moment.


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## P.N. (Sep 6, 2019)

Ah, in that case it's related to how the library itself works.
But since there's no real standard articulations or other features in orchestral libraries, i guess upgrading users should not be too upset about it, considering the changes are probably for the better.


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## lpuser (Sep 7, 2019)

Reading that most of the layoffs are mostly happening in Germany, I wonder if the tax situation has something to do with it. Right after Denmark, Germany is to most expensive place to have employees. Unfortunately, the German goverment does not care (until everything goes downhill). NI is among many other companies which have announced laying off staff over here.


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## Architekton (Sep 7, 2019)

lpuser said:


> Reading that most of the layoffs are mostly happening in Germany, I wonder if the tax situation has something to do with it. Right after Denmark, Germany is to most expensive place to have employees. Unfortunately, the German goverment does not care (until everything goes downhill). NI is among many other companies which have announced laying off staff over here.



LOL, come to my country, goverment takes almost 50% of everything, you need to be a magician to survive.


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## babylonwaves (Sep 7, 2019)

lpuser said:


> Right after Denmark, Germany is to most expensive place to have employees.


that's incorrect. and, the germany headquarter hosts the most employees, that's all.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 7, 2019)

I don't know, I've read their corporate statement in detail several times by now, and each time I do, I come to the conclusion that "platform" refers not to stuff like Kontakt, but the sales-oriented side of things, such as the internal company partnerships, how things are sold and packaged and bundled as well as linked to/from other sites, more than anything else. And also the impact on third-party licensing and how that is handled, verified, validated, renewed, etc.


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## lpuser (Sep 11, 2019)

babylonwaves said:


> that's incorrect. and, the germany headquarter hosts the most employees, that's all.



Well, I am fairly certain that Statistica hosts the correct data to which I was referring.








Steuer- und Sozialabgaben in den OECD-Staaten nach Familienstand 2020 | Statista


Die Statistik zeigt den Anteil von Steuer- und Sozialabgaben an den Gesamtarbeitskosten für Durchschnittsverdiener in den OECD-Ländern im Jahr 2020 nach Familienstand.




de.statista.com


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## Heizenhaus (Sep 11, 2019)

lpuser said:


> Reading that most of the layoffs are mostly happening in Germany, I wonder if the tax situation has something to do with it. Right after Denmark, Germany is to most expensive place to have employees. Unfortunately, the German goverment does not care (until everything goes downhill). NI is among many other companies which have announced laying off staff over here.


Sure, bud. All these massive tax hikes in the last few weeks and months make it basically impossible to employ anyone. No wonder NI has to layoff people now. Oh, wait, didn't happen.
And the unemployment rate is skyrocketing like never before. Oh, wait, it's pretty much stable.









Monatliche Arbeitslosenquote 2021-2022 | Statista


Die Arbeitslosenquote lag Ende September 2022 bei 5,4 Prozent.




de.statista.com





Perhaps you would like to reserve your paranoia for the political sub-forum? Just so we don't have to suffer this nonsense.


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## babylonwaves (Sep 11, 2019)

lpuser said:


> Well, I am fairly certain that Statistica hosts the correct data to which I was referring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


we have steinberg and the apple logic developers in hamburg. ableton + u-he in berlin. celemony in munich. Access/Kemper/Walldorf/RME/Sennheiser/SPL/Neumann, they all recruit and develop here in Germany. - send them your statistics, i'm sure they'll thank you for your insides 
the statistics you are referring offset the combined costs for the employee AND the employer. it is meaningless for your case. also it doesn't take into account that for instance a health insurance is mandatory in germany whereas in other countries it's optional. Here, the employer pays approx 50% of your health care, elsewhere the employer pays nothing. you cannot simply compare those things ...


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## kitekrazy (Sep 11, 2019)

667 said:


> Unified Platform always means "new version of a thing that now does some of the things in the product we cancelled but not the thing you need it to do and also now it crashes a lot".
> 
> I was saving my pennies for a Maschine but I'm gonna put that on indefinite hold because* NI already has a reputation for abandoning their hardware stuff* and I'm sure we're gonna see more of that now.



Hmmm......the only exception to that may be RME. Yamaha is king in doorstops for me.


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## Heizenhaus (Sep 11, 2019)

Architekton said:


> LOL, come to my country, goverment takes almost 50% of everything, you need to be a magician to survive.


Can I hire you for a children's birthday then? Considering that you're still alive... Sorry, I get a bit pissy these days with all the constant hyperbole.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 11, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Business as usual. Kontakt is alive and well and a staple of NI's catalogue as well as Reaktor. They aren't going anywhere.



Nice to see someone not pushing the panic button. 

The latest trend in DAW paranoia is the subscription model. There is a developer out there that raised prices in order to "force" those into a sub. You wont see the negativity on their FB page.

The advantage I could see on most subscriptions is it would be a great cure for my G.A.S. and would buy less and actually use what I have.

My other thoughts are I hope if more companies going subscrption without the option to buy that it fails big time. Let's just say this becomes the norm, there are plenty of smaller developers that will market "no subscription needed". I've seen something similar with the "no dongle required".

Smaller developers making great stuff is putting a dent in the big boys.

I can't see something like Maschine going the way of Kore either.


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## funnybear (Sep 18, 2019)

NI have posted a new message to the community following their press release:









A message from Native Instruments


Hi everyone, We’ve been reading your responses and questions based upon the tough news about changes inside of Native Instruments. And we understand...




www.native-instruments.com


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## Hadrondrift (Sep 18, 2019)

Between the lines I see the subscription model coming next year. They are not denying this, just telling they won't charge subscriptions for products we already own. Well, okay. My only concern is how they will handle product updates for non-subscribers.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 18, 2019)

I took a survey a few years back when Native Access was new (and in beta), and said I was not interested in subscriptions, for the same reasons I tell Adobe (though Adobe doesn't listen; whereas the audio vendors are pretty good at respecting their customers). Since that time, I have signed on to Slate's and Plug-in Alliance's, even though I already owned perpetual licenses for most of their stuff.

I tend to do bi-annual updates to Komplete, so it might work out productively, but I also don't like most of what's in Komplete and am using less and less of it all the time, other than for FM8, Kontakt, and sometimes Massive and Absynth (though less than before). So I think I would have a different formula for making that decision than I did for Slate and Plug-in Alliance, as well as Roland.

I haven't used my Slate products in two years, since joining the subscription, but use Plug-in Alliance stuff now and then -- I'm still on an extended break from from slowing myself down with production work, but I may get back to it next year now that I feel I have reached good stopping points for "when is it good enough" regarding mock-up parts.

I only recently signed up for Roland Cloud, and it was only because they no longer offer perpetual licenses and they had a one-time discount on a two-year license. I may not use any of it though; I try to avoid repeating sounds, and may have already maxed out my use of their soft synths.

Oh yeah, for NI there's also stuff I've used a bit but might not use any further due to repetition of sound between musical projects: Action Strikes, Rise & Hit, and the like.

For individuals vs. businesses, I generally don't like subscriptions because they lock us into a non-discretionary budget, and most of us in my position have sporadic intervals of time that aren't always easy to predict (vs. someone running a studio, who doesn't have a "day job" that is different).


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