# Which choir Library is the best?



## nik

Hey guys,
Just wanted to ask which choir library u recommend.
I am using EW Symphonic Choirs and altough i like the sound and the word builder,there are a few things that annoy me (maybe i am just too stupid or lazy). Sometimes the sound seems to come late altough the midi notes are on point,word builder programming takes sometimes pretty long and so on....
Since this library is pretty old i would like to know if there are good alternatives and how they compare to EW Symphonic choirs.
Thanks a lot 
greets
Nik


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## R.Cato

StormChoir 2 + Wotan = 100% Choir Madness

Wotan + StormChoir 2 Women


StormChoir 2 only


The problem of most choir ibraries is that they are recorded too wet and with a far too large ensemble size. Once you start writing big chords they immediately start to sound synthetic and loose all the details as well as realism.

For a softer and more angelic pad like sound check out Voxos 2 by cinesamples, which works extremly well for Danny Elfman like stuff.

Still in the end there is no best choir library. It all comes down to your personal aesthetics.


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## toddkedwards

I've been using VOXOS 2.0 from Cinesamples and I'm been pretty happy with it so far. I'm still learning how to use it, but so far I'm really impressed with it's sound. 

It features the following:

Full epic choir
Boys choir
Soloist
Phrase builder
Give it a look, it might be up your alley.


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## PeterKorcek

There is no best choir library. Each has different strengths, because it was recorded with different people, men/women/kids, different halls, spaces, different recording techniques. 

I have EW Choirs, but don't use them nowadays usually, because it took me quite some time to program something useful in there (I think I don't really have time for it), but once you are done, it can still sound awesome.
I like Soundiron Olympus choirs - amazing for powerful stuff as well as softer passages.
Also Storm Choir 2 and Voxos are nice.

Listen to the demos, visit websites of the creators and search youtube for examples as well (or this forum).


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## nik

Hey guys,
thx a lot for the help,i checked all your suggested Libraries and they all sound great imo.
Since they are more expenisve then expected i will wait for a sale though.
Great input thx lot
greets


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## TGV

I can wholeheartedly recommend Virharmonik's Voices of Prague for a somewhat "smaller" choir sound. It's a bit less flexible, but much easier to program than Symphonic Choir.


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## playz123

Soundiron's Olympus series and Virharmonic's VoP are, in my opinion, the top two libraries on the market.


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## JohnG

I've used a number of choir libraries and they have their good and bad points. Frankly, I keep using Symphonic choirs for most of my work, despite its challenges. Also, I'm used to it!

[note: I have received free products from East West]


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## nik

great,thx for the comments guys
greets


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## SillyMidOn

nik said:


> Hey guys,
> Just wanted to ask which choir library u recommend.
> I am using EW Symphonic Choirs and altough i like the sound and the word builder,there are a few things that annoy me (maybe i am just too stupid or lazy). Sometimes the sound seems to come late altough the midi notes are on point,word builder programming takes sometimes pretty long and so on....
> Since this library is pretty old i would like to know if there are good alternatives and how they compare to EW Symphonic choirs.
> Thanks a lot
> greets
> Nik


Well you are lucky if there are only a few things that annoy you about Symphonic Choirs ...

I own a lot of choirs, and in my opinion the one that comes with Metropolis Ark is the best. Not the most versatile at all (no control over syllables on the marcatos or staccatos, only one vowel sound on the legates), but boy oh boy does it sound good, and the staccato is by far the best of any library, the staccato is very accurate.


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## nik

hey guys 
i just came across 8dio requiem. 
Does anybody have some experience with it?
greets


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## Zhao Shen

nik said:


> hey guys
> i just came across 8dio requiem.
> Does anybody have some experience with it?
> greets


Requiem shows its age. Still my go-to for epic choir, but if I were to make a decision on epic choir knowing what I do now, I would probably buy Storm Choir 2. Soundiron's Olympus for all-around choral versatility - it's more traditional than many other libraries.


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## passsacaglia

I am thinking in this in the future, what would you say about this bundle?

I really love the Emotional Piano and why not have good percs, boy choir, choir and fx choir for 499??
http://soundiron.com/products/kontakt-player-bundle

I like the option that you have more articulations for the choir (mm, ahs, ohs etc) rather than only Ahs and Ohs in for example Voxos 2.

re-edit: oh damn!! Saw that it was only Symphonic Boychoir that had the Mm's in there..damn...! I love the Mm-Aah's in boy's choir =/


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## geoffreyvernon

For me personally it's Venus and Mars from SoundIron. The fact that you can do anything from ooo's to ah's and even build phrases and words with a "word builder" makes it possible to do pretty much anything. 8dios requiem is another really good choir, and though it may be old it still definitely holds its own against that libraries from today. I also have Voxos and Storm Choir as well and they're both also very good for certain things. However, as I've said before Venus and Mars are still my main go to libraries for pretty much anything I do film score and trailer music wise. They just have a sound that I can't find from any other library.


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## WindcryMusic

passsacaglia said:


> http://soundiron.com/products/kontakt-player-bundle
> 
> I like the option that you have more articulations for the choir (mm, ahs, ohs etc) rather than only Ahs and Ohs in for example Voxos 2.
> 
> re-edit: oh damn!! Saw that it was only Symphonic Boychoir that had the Mm's in there..damn...! I love the Mm-Aah's in boy's choir =/



Olympus Elements has the "Mm" vowel sustains, too (I have it and have used them). I don't know about Requiem Elements.


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## passsacaglia

WindcryMusic said:


> Olympus Elements has the "Mm" vowel sustains, too (I have it and have used them). I don't know about Requiem Elements.


Heya!! Ohh ok yeah I saw that now haha! But I'd love to have them in the Mercury elements too (boy choir).
Saw the 8Dio Liberis video and got in love with the Mm-Aah progression, really lovely.
7:54 in this video:



But 499 for only a boy-choir library...damn that's much.


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## WindcryMusic

passsacaglia said:


> Heya!! Ohh ok yeah I saw that now haha! But I'd love to have them in the Mercury elements too (boy choir).
> Saw the 8Dio Liberis video and got in love with the Mm-Aah progression, really lovely.



In my opinion the Mm-Ah crossfade can be very effective with Olympus Elements as well. I just whipped up a quick example thereof a moment ago, in case it helps you make a decision:


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## Ryan99

Soundiron Olympus, Virharmonic vocal libraries and 8Dio Lacrimosa are all excellent choices.


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## AllanH

There's a surprisingly good Choir included in Miroslav Phil 2 (it's the MP1 Choir). There is no word-builder, but as long as Os, As, Do, Re, Mi etc are enough, it goes far. It's velocity sensitive, so if you give 100+ on velocity they do "scream" in typical "epic style". You can also adjust how hard each note starts, which is great for softer vocals. If you have MP1 or MP2, that's a great place to start.


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## passsacaglia

WindcryMusic said:


> In my opinion the Mm-Ah crossfade can be very effective with Olympus Elements as well. I just whipped up a quick example thereof a moment ago, in case it helps you make a decision:



Wouh! You hero, you did this only for me/this thread?!?! Goldstar to you D!


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## babylonwaves

+1 for Soundiron. I'm using Mars and Venus all the time. The Mercury children choir sounds great to but you need an application for that sound.


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## passsacaglia

"sharing is caring" - one of my absolute favorable choir piece, the whole track iw excellent but was thinkin of the piece from 3:50 ->


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## jamwerks

Don't forget 8DIO's Studio Sopranos. I plan to pick that and Lacrimosa on their next sale!


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## Ultraxenon

I have used Olympus Elements a while and was satisfied with the sound. Yesterday i bought Olympus Mars and Venus (big sale Time +space) The sound is amazing. I cant wait to use this in a composition.


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## zacnelson

I LOVE the 8dio Studio Sopranos, and also highly recommend Soundiron Venus and Mars, especially Venus.


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## ag75

A+ for Storm Choir II. Fantastic sounding library that you can fit perfectly in practically any mix.


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## mickeyl

ag75 said:


> A+ for Store Choir II. Fantastic sounding library that you can fit perfectly in practically any mix.


Storm choir, i guess?


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## whinecellar

geoffreyvernon said:


> For me personally it's Venus and Mars from SoundIron. The fact that you can do anything from ooo's to ah's and even build phrases and words with a "word builder" makes it possible to do pretty much anything....I also have Voxos and Storm Choir as well and they're both also very good for certain things....



Thanks for this Geoffrey. I have the original EWQLSO choir and I'm due for some updated choir capabilities. To me it seems to come down to Voxos 2 vs. the SoundIron stuff. The SoundIron demos are incredible, but being familiar with Cinesamples libraries, there's a familiarity there. I know I could work fast with it which is important to me - I loathe the idea of having to learn a complicated wordbuilder utility. So, how would you rate ease of use on the SoundIron libraries? Watching Mike's Voxos 2 walkthroughs, I know I could work quickly with it, and I like how they do things... but good heavens, I can't ignore the sound of those SoundIron demos. Any further comparisons would be helpful! I'd be looking at Olympus and Mercury - love the boys choir too. Thanks in advance!


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## URL

I use "new" 8dio Lacrimosa in my opinion sounds great.


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## Hat_Tricky

8Dios Lacrimosa is incredible sounding, a real EPIC sound. I dont have Requiem, but I do also own 8dios Studio Sopranos, and they are absolutely terrific as well. 2 Very very solid Libraries imo.


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## jononotbono

Great thread. I need to invest in a Choir/s library and been unsure what to get. I would like to be able to get that Elfman Fantasy kind of sound but also would like the option to get a massive "Epic" sound so Lacrimosa has caught my ears but many people have hugely praised Venus and Mars. I am trying to get the most out of OT M Ark 1 choir and do love it but I want to be able to change the Vowels on the Legatos. Has anyone here got experience with the choir that 8Dio has in the V8P club. Imperium Titan? Or are you under oath not to talk about it? Haha! Just wanna know whether it's worth investing in more 8Dio stuff so I get the option to buy it (if it is worth it)? Does it have a word builder? I've been trying to learn how to use EW word builder but just a beginner at using it. Takes a lot of work to try and get "them" singing what I would like. I know, how selfish of me.


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## zeng

I plan to buy VSL Voices bundle which includes choirs. It is fantastic! The best legato I've ever heard. It is silky smooth (I've tried it via their audition player for 1 hour).


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## geoffreyvernon

whinecellar said:


> Thanks for this Geoffrey. I have the original EWQLSO choir and I'm due for some updated choir capabilities. To me it seems to come down to Voxos 2 vs. the SoundIron stuff. The SoundIron demos are incredible, but being familiar with Cinesamples libraries, there's a familiarity there. I know I could work fast with it which is important to me - I loathe the idea of having to learn a complicated wordbuilder utility. So, how would you rate ease of use on the SoundIron libraries? Watching Mike's Voxos 2 walkthroughs, I know I could work quickly with it, and I like how they do things... but good heavens, I can't ignore the sound of those SoundIron demos. Any further comparisons would be helpful! I'd be looking at Olympus and Mercury - love the boys choir too. Thanks in advance!



Sorry for the extremely late response! Been busy here working on multiple projects. But I would rate the ease of use to be pretty darn well great. I haven't had any issues thus far, and really didn't have any struggles when I first started using them. Hope this helps! Olympus and Mercury are literally great for anything. I use them for trailer music AND film score. They also layer really well with the Voxos stuff and pretty much any other choir library too, which makes them all the more useful.


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## Ryan99

jononotbono said:


> Great thread. I need to invest in a Choir/s library and been unsure what to get. I would like to be able to get that Elfman Fantasy kind of sound but also would like the option to get a massive "Epic" sound so Lacrimosa has caught my ears but many people have hugely praised Venus and Mars. I am trying to get the most out of OT M Ark 1 choir and do love it but I want to be able to change the Vowels on the Legatos. Has anyone here got experience with the choir that 8Dio has in the V8P club. Imperium Titan? Or are you under oath not to talk about it? Haha! Just wanna know whether it's worth investing in more 8Dio stuff so I get the option to buy it (if it is worth it)? Does it have a word builder? I've been trying to learn how to use EW word builder but just a beginner at using it. Takes a lot of work to try and get "them" singing what I would like. I know, how selfish of me.



The Titan Choir is essentially the same as Lacrimosa, but with more microphone positions. There's also a smaller orchestra to complement the Titan choir.


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## whinecellar

geoffreyvernon said:


> Sorry for the extremely late response! Been busy here working on multiple projects. But I would rate the ease of use to be pretty darn well great. I haven't had any issues thus far, and really didn't have any struggles when I first started using them. Hope this helps! Olympus and Mercury are literally great for anything. I use them for trailer music AND film score. They also layer really well with the Voxos stuff and pretty much any other choir library too, which makes them all the more useful.


Thanks for the reply! I went ahead and got Voxos while it was on sale - I knew I would want those softer dynamics and clarity, along with the boys choir. Also grabbed Olympus & Mercury Elements to layer for the bigger textures. So far so good - best of both worlds


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## peksi

To my humble opinion you need a selection of choir products to have enough diversity. There are wonderful products that bring key elements such as 8Dio Liberis, which is one of a kind and also very limited, requiring professional choirs such as Soundiron Mars / Venus etc to be complete.


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## airwavemusic

I own requiem light, Liberis, and voxos. And the choirs in metropolis ark. In my template I only use voxos because it's the most versatile. I've been a hardcore user of the other two, especially Liberis. It has its flaws though. Voxos is on sale right now till apr 15th.


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## Thorsten Meyer

I wonder if I should go ahead for VOXOS which is on sale now or StormChoir 2. 



Price points: 

VOXOS 389 USD (summer sale)
STORM CHOIR 2: COMPLETE 280USD (owner of StormChoir 1 discount)

STORM CHOIR 2: Core 197USD (owner of StormChoir 1 discount)


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## kurtvanzo

Thorsten Meyer said:


> I wonder if I should go ahead for VOXOS which is on sale now or StormChoir 2.
> 
> 
> 
> Price points:
> 
> VOXOS 389 USD (summer sale)
> STORM CHOIR 2: COMPLETE 280USD (owner of StormChoir 1 discount)
> 
> STORM CHOIR 2: Core 197USD (owner of StormChoir 1 discount)




I would go for Voxos. If I was going to suggest one all around library that sounds beautiful with soft tones as well as loud, I would say that's it. Many other choirs get big, but few have Voxos range and tone. Even the ahh to Ohh CC is very useful for adding movement to the tone as you use the dynamic CCs (I have them on footpedals and it works amazingly well).

If you have anything left over I suggest looking at Realivox -Blue to add a lead soprano to either chior, allows you to build more complex phrases, and combined with Voxos and/or East West Symphonic Chiors gives an amazing sound and definition to the singing.
http://realitone.com/blue/


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## Leeward

I don't actually own a choir library but I have played around with both Liberis and Voxos and, as far as I'm concerned, they cover a lot of usable ground. Liberis in particular has lovely soft sustains.


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## Ultraxenon

I ended up with all the choirs from soundiron and i think they sound really great and easy to use in almost every contex. I did compare it with Voxos and Stormchoir before buying and Voxos was my second choice. Thats because i think it does the more subtle sound much better and the tone is just incredible. Go on YouTube and listen to them, pick the one you like best


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## Thorsten Meyer

kurtvanzo said:


> I would go for Voxos. If I was going to suggest one all around library that sounds beautiful with soft tones as well as loud, I would say that's it. Many other choirs get big, but few have Voxos range and tone. Even the ahh to Ohh CC is very useful for adding movement to the tone as you use the dynamic CCs (I have them on footpedals and it works amazingly well).
> 
> If you have anything left over I suggest looking at Realivox -Blue to add a lead soprano to either chior, allows you to build more complex phrases, and combined with Voxos and/or East West Symphonic Chiors gives an amazing sound and definition to the singing.
> http://realitone.com/blue/


Thank you, I looking strongly into Voxos - but just don't sure.


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## Thorsten Meyer

Leeward said:


> I don't actually own a choir library but I have played around with both Liberis and Voxos and, as far as I'm concerned, they cover a lot of usable ground. Liberis in particular has lovely soft sustains.


8Dio's Childrens Choir = Liberis sounds nice, but I want more than children singing )


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## Thorsten Meyer

Ultraxenon said:


> I ended up with all the choirs from soundiron and i think they sound really great and easy to use in almost every contex. I did compare it with Voxos and Stormchoir before buying and Voxos was my second choice. Thats because i think it does the more subtle sound much better and the tone is just incredible. Go on YouTube and listen to them, pick the one you like best


If I would make a heavy investment into choirs which I do for example on Strings soundiron would be an option, but choirs are not that high on my list.


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## Ultraxenon

Thorsten Meyer said:


> If I would make a heavy investment into choirs which I do for example on Strings soundiron would be an option, but choirs are not that high on my list.


Yes, i understand. Between Voxos and Stormchoir i would defintley go for Voxos. I dont own either of them, but i have listen a lot to them. I do belive most of the choirs Daniel James uses is from Voxos. Check Daniel James YouTube channel if you dont allready done that.


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## sluggo

I would like to mention Realivox Ladies here. It's surprisingly nimble and resourceful. You can create almost any phrase you can think of and the sound is quite intimate and musical. Not a full choir but a very useful library.


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## nik

Hey guys, so after this long Thread for me it all comes down to Olympus Choirs VS Voxos 2. Since Voxos is on sale i goota make a choice now
From what i have heard Olympus sounds a bit better and is more flexibel. But Voxos two has some cool features. It says u can use quantizing and it will sound good and that was impossible with EW Symphonic Choirs.....and i like the velocity feature,that u can play staccato at low velocity and sustain at high velocity. Does anybody know if Olympus has similar features? Or are there different opinions?
Thanks again guys


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## Ultraxenon

nik said:


> Hey guys, so after this long Thread for me it all comes down to Olympus Choirs VS Voxos 2. Since Voxos is on sale i goota make a choice now
> From what i have heard Olympus sounds a bit better and is more flexibel. But Voxos two has some cool features. It says u can use quantizing and it will sound good and that was impossible with EW Symphonic Choirs.....and i like the velocity feature,that u can play staccato at low velocity and sustain at high velocity. Does anybody know if Olympus has similar features? Or are there different opinions?
> Thanks again guys


Im pretty sure that quantizing in Olympus choir not sound good. I never tried cause i always record live and then correct each tone in the piano roll. I do belive you could have staccato at low velocity. Im not in my studio today, but i could check this tomorrow if you have the time to wait.


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## Thorsten Meyer

Ultraxenon said:


> Im pretty sure that quantizing in Olympus choir not sound good. I never tried cause i always record live and then correct each tone in the piano roll. I do belive you could have staccato at low velocity. Im not in my studio today, but i could check this tomorrow if you have the time to wait.



I am not in a hurry, thank you for taking a look tomorrow


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## nik

@Ultraxenon 
Yeah no hurry,thx a lot


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## kurtvanzo

Thorsten Meyer said:


> I am not in a hurry, thank you for taking a look tomorrow



Thanks for posting the first chair video Thorsten. I have Voxos 2, Olympus Elements, Sym Choirs, and Ark choirs- let me know if you have any midi you'd like me to try/post. Really appreciate you taking the time to help. It could be that I have the elements version, but Olympus for me doesn't have the dynamics or soft tones of Voxos (although for large epic choir or shouts it works well) and Voxos just plays better for me. But if you don't use much choir (or only need bigger sounds) then it may be overkill. All the best on your choice.


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## Ultraxenon

nik said:


> @Ultraxenon
> Yeah no hurry,thx a lot


Great, i check and post a link with with an example on the most subtle staccato it could do. It is a difference between Mars and Venus(Olympus Symphonic Choirs, have both of them) I think Venus is slighty better. I post a test of both.


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## Anthony N.Putson

Given there's a bit of choir in Metropolis Ark I'm hoping OT have something substantial cooking!


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## Ultraxenon

Just tested, no need to post a link really, but Venus could have a a bit subtle sound on staccato, Mars can not, at least as far as i know. Here is a very short test on staccato for Venus, at the end i raise dynamics and velocity a bit so you hear the difference. I just did this in 10 sec so it is only a test.


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## Ganvai

To be honest, Storm Choir 2 from Strezov Samplign is one of the most realistic choirs you will ever get. And especially for powerful writings, this is my go to choir lib. 

Just you know, I own Mars, requiem and Voxos. But Storm Choir 2 beats them all.


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## Ultraxenon

Ganvai said:


> To be honest, Storm Choir 2 from Strezov Samplign is one of the most realistic choirs you will ever get. And especially for powerful writings, this is my go to choir lib.
> 
> Just you know, I own Mars, requiem and Voxos. But Storm Choir 2 beats them all.


I agree for powerfull writing Stormchoir 2 sounds like the choice, but for other stuff im not so sure. But i do not own Stormchoir so...


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## Thorsten Meyer

kurtvanzo said:


> Thanks for posting the first chair video Thorsten. I have Voxos 2, Olympus Elements, Sym Choirs, and Ark choirs- let me know if you have any midi you'd like me to try/post. Really appreciate you taking the time to help. It could be that I have the elements version, but Olympus for me doesn't have the dynamics or soft tones of Voxos (although for large epic choir or shouts it works well) and Voxos just plays better for me. But if you don't use much choir (or only need bigger sounds) then it may be overkill. All the best on your choice.


Thank you, I would like to learn more about the ease of use, versatility and if needed flexibility to cope with more complicated setups. The library should offer mens, woman and boys and to the most part should be easy to use. When I need then I want to fine tune.

I have so far Storm Choir 1, Metro Ark 1, 8Dio Studio Sopranos, Clara (1,2, Ethera) and on the other spectrum and those are not Choir Libs as such: Vocalise, Exhale


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## kurtvanzo

Thorsten Meyer said:


> Thank you, I would like to learn more about the ease of use, versatility and if needed flexibility to cope with more complicated setups. The library should offer mens, woman and boys and to the most part should be easy to use. When I need then I want to fine tune.
> 
> I have so far Storm Choir 1, Metro Ark 1, 8Dio Studio Sopranos, Clara (1,2, Ethera) and on the other spectrum and those are not Choir Libs as such: Vocalise, Exhale



Not sure what a complicated set-up is for you, but it is easy to set-up and offers men, women and boys, all of which have a great tone. I just played through the patches, it comes as a player library with 11 patches- 
1) Phrase builder - 30 syllables including A, E, I, O, U, Ca, Ta, Te, Di, Ky, Ti, Do, Tu, Sa, Ra, Ma, Re, Ne, Cri, Vi, Ri, Mi, Vo, Nu, Tis,Tus, Sact,Vos, Nus, Frayst. Recorded as longs and shorts that is set to play shorts on low velocity, but can be set for high (reversed) and the velocity split can be set to any number (default is 81 out of 127). Men on the left and women on the right with keyswitches to the left of men it works very well on an 88 key keyboard, but I'm able to work around it on 64. The pharses can be built up or randomly selected (they have presets that sound good) and there are enough slots to save many set-ups. They auto advance or you can use the keyswitches. All in all it works well and is more useful/versitale than I thought they would be. Aside from the vowels many sound like latin when played. And although I thought the chosen syllables would be limiting, it sounds very natural and real when played, even when solo'ed and fully exposed.

Which is my note for this whole library. I have Symphonic choirs, Ark, and a few others that sound good in context, but I don't think I would play any of them completely exposed, as they sound less real the more exposed they are. I don't own Storm choir but listening to the walkthroughs I imagine it's the same, sounds great in a big mix but on it's own? Voxos can actually be exposed, or start a piece, without any tricks to hide the samples. Between the sample recordings and the way it was programmed, it sounds and feels very natural out of the box, which is unusual. 

All the patches come with 4 mic positions, close, stage, Far, and surround, plus a full mix (default), all sound good. High, mid, low EQ and level is adjustable for each section (Sop,Alto,Tenor,Bass,Boys for legato and mens, women for everything else.) 

2) Legato patch- Ahhs and Ohhs (crossfaded with CC2- changable in settings) with men, women, boys all in one patch. With this and the phrase builder you can turn on and off any section (saves Ram) or play them all together. Plays amazingly smooth for how much is going on.

3) Boys choir- patch 2 with boys chior on and everything else off. Sounds beautiful.

4) clusters and textures- scary clusters that sound good for horror, eerieness.

5) Risers, Stabs, Screams - some more great horror, thriller stuff.

6) Chords - Major/Minor chords with men and women. Very useful for chord progressions and again, sounds very real, even exposed.

7) Octaves- men low, women high. Good but not as useful (for me) as Chords.

8) Solo soprano - very wonderful soprano for ahhs and ohhs. Very smooth. Staccato on low velocity but can be adjusted just like legato choir.

9) Soprano legacy- opera solo soprano- great for when you need oprea vibrato. Oohs only.

10) Solo boy - great solo boy ooh. All of the solos work well by themselves and fully exposed except perhaps the Soprano legacy- the vibrato can be a little funky if played quickly.

11) Women Bum, bums- good extra if you can use it. Long and short with settings to ajust stacs on high or low velocity and the crossover velicity (default is 81 of 127).

All in all I really like the sound and it would be my only choir if I could type in words. But to be honest I haven't needed wordbuilding for most of what I do, and it's worked great solo'ed or in a big mix. To me it's very versitle and can do soft and loud well. May not get as big as storm choir or Olympus, but to me it covers more ground. And since voices can be purged and it has settings to customize, it's a pretty great choir set.


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## Thorsten Meyer

kurtvanzo said:


> Not sure what a complicated set-up is for you, but it is easy to set-up and offers men, women and boys, all of which have a great tone. I just played through the patches, it comes as a player library with 11 patches-
> 1) Phrase builder - 30 syllables including A, E, I, O, U, Ca, Ta, Te, Di, Ky, Ti, Do, Tu, Sa, Ra, Ma, Re, Ne, Cri, Vi, Ri, Mi, Vo, Nu, Tis,Tus, Sact,Vos, Nus, Frayst. Recorded as longs and shorts that is set to play shorts on low velocity, but can be set for high (reversed) and the velocity split can be set to any number (default is 81 out of 127). Men on the left and women on the right with keyswitches to the left of men it works very well on an 88 key keyboard, but I'm able to work around it on 64. The pharses can be built up or randomly selected (they have presets that sound good) and there are enough slots to save many set-ups. They auto advance or you can use the keyswitches. All in all it works well and is more useful/versitale than I thought they would be. Aside from the vowels many sound like latin when played. And although I thought the chosen syllables would be limiting, it sounds very natural and real when played, even when solo'ed and fully exposed.
> 
> Which is my note for this whole library. I have Symphonic choirs, Ark, and a few others that sound good in context, but I don't think I would play any of them completely exposed, as they sound less real the more exposed they are. I don't own Storm choir but listening to the walkthroughs I imagine it's the same, sounds great in a big mix but on it's own? Voxos can actually be exposed, or start a piece, without any tricks to hide the samples. Between the sample recordings and the way it was programmed, it sounds and feels very natural out of the box, which is unusual.
> 
> All the patches come with 4 mic positions, close, stage, Far, and surround, plus a full mix (default), all sound good. High, mid, low EQ and level is adjustable for each section (Sop,Alto,Tenor,Bass,Boys for legato and mens, women for everything else.)
> 
> 2) Legato patch- Ahhs and Ohhs (crossfaded with CC2- changable in settings) with men, women, boys all in one patch. With this and the phrase builder you can turn on and off any section (saves Ram) or play them all together. Plays amazingly smooth for how much is going on.
> 
> 3) Boys choir- patch 2 with boys chior on and everything else off. Sounds beautiful.
> 
> 4) clusters and textures- scary clusters that sound good for horror, eerieness.
> 
> 5) Risers, Stabs, Screams - some more great horror, thriller stuff.
> 
> 6) Chords - Major/Minor chords with men and women. Very useful for chord progressions and again, sounds very real, even exposed.
> 
> 7) Octaves- men low, women high. Good but not as useful (for me) as Chords.
> 
> 8) Solo soprano - very wonderful soprano for ahhs and ohhs. Very smooth. Staccato on low velocity but can be adjusted just like legato choir.
> 
> 9) Soprano legacy- opera solo soprano- great for when you need oprea vibrato. Oohs only.
> 
> 10) Solo boy - great solo boy ooh. All of the solos work well by themselves and fully exposed except perhaps the Soprano legacy- the vibrato can be a little funky if played quickly.
> 
> 11) Women Bum, bums- good extra if you can use it. Long and short with settings to ajust stacs on high or low velocity and the crossover velicity (default is 81 of 127).
> 
> All in all I really like the sound and it would be my only choir if I could type in words. But to be honest I haven't needed wordbuilding for most of what I do, and it's worked great solo'ed or in a big mix. To me it's very versitle and can do soft and loud well. May not get as big as storm choir or Olympus, but to me it covers more ground. And since voices can be purged and it has settings to customize, it's a pretty great choir set.



Thank you kurtvanzo, this is extremely helpful


----------



## Parsifal666

For the best, most authentic sounding samples it's East West Symphonic all the way. The problem is, as with practically all EW you have bugs in the play engine that aren't completely gone, even after all these years. The hanging notes problem has diminished some, but in this and the Hollywoods it exists and can be a very aggravating pain to deal with at times. And there are other quirks with EW that, added up, put people off the library with my complete sympathy.

I must say, too, that if you're looking for actual words then look elsewhere, because the Wordbuilder is one of the most astoundingly awful-to-use abominations in sample library history. It rarely does what it's supposed do, even when it does it typically screams for layer of RRs. In fact, I can easily sympathize with the others here recommending other libraries, simply for the above reasons.

However, I've tried many of those mentioned and EW is still the king; it's just that many (quite understandably) would rather use something that doesn't provide all too consistent frustration in its application. And I'm positive someday there will be an even more authentic sounding library that is a breeze to use.

Until that day...I've used EW for so long that I'll stick it out, as the liabilities of the library are something I'm used to, and due to the quality of the sound there's no WAY I'm replacing what I've already done with something less immaculately recorded/sounding, even if, indeed, there are libraries that won't too often have me clenching my fist and yelling at an inanimate object

So, total respect and my sympathies for those who tried the EWSC route and turned to something else. The best probably isn't the best if you have to dick around with it a good portion of the time.


----------



## Karma

I can vouch for CineVOXOS, the Alto & Soprano voices have a really gorgeous almost angelic sound to them.


----------



## Thorsten Meyer

I as close to buy Voxos 2, however I went for Storm Choir 2 complete and Requiem Light


----------



## Thorsten Meyer

I added Voxos to the mix. From an ease of use and Voxos 2 wins


----------



## kurtvanzo

Parsifal666 said:


> For the best, most authentic sounding samples it's East West Symphonic all the way. The problem is, as with practically all EW you have bugs in the play engine that aren't completely gone, even after all these years. The hanging notes problem has diminished some, but in this and the Hollywoods it exists and can be a very aggravating pain to deal with at times. And there are other quirks with EW that, added up, put people off the library with my complete sympathy.
> 
> I must say, too, that if you're looking for actual words then look elsewhere, because the Wordbuilder is one of the most astoundingly awful-to-use abominations in sample library history. It rarely does what it's supposed do, even when it does it typically screams for layer of RRs. In fact, I can easily sympathize with the others here recommending other libraries, simply for the above reasons.
> 
> However, I've tried many of those mentioned and EW is still the king; it's just that many (quite understandably) would rather use something that doesn't provide all too consistent frustration in its application. And I'm positive someday there will be an even more authentic sounding library that is a breeze to use.
> 
> Until that day...I've used EW for so long that I'll stick it out, as the liabilities of the library are something I'm used to, and due to the quality of the sound there's no WAY I'm replacing what I've already done with something less immaculately recorded/sounding, even if, indeed, there are libraries that won't too often have me clenching my fist and yelling at an inanimate object
> 
> So, total respect and my sympathies for those who tried the EWSC route and turned to something else. The best probably isn't the best if you have to dick around with it a good portion of the time.



Parsifal, you may want to try Symphonic Choirs again now at Play 5 is out, the hanging notes may be fixed. Play 5 has been working much smoother and quicker for me. I'll check SC when I'm back in the studio but I don't remember having the same problems in Play 4 that you have. Cheers.


----------



## Parsifal666

kurtvanzo said:


> Parsifal, you may want to try Symphonic Choirs again now at Play 5 is out, the hanging notes may be fixed. Play 5 has been working much smoother and quicker for me. I'll check SC when I'm back in the studio but I don't remember having the same problems in Play 4 that you have. Cheers.



Oh I found out for myself  I'm definitely happier with Play 5.


----------



## kurtvanzo

Parsifal666 said:


> Oh I found out for myself  I'm definitely happier with Play 5.



Did it fix the hanging notes and other problems in Symp Chiors? I might have to re-explore SC, Hollywood Orch, SD3, Silk, etc, etc...


----------



## Parsifal666

kurtvanzo said:


> Did it fix the hanging notes and other problems in Symp Chiors? I might have to re-explore SC, Hollywood Orch, SD3, Silk, etc, etc...



There is a noticeable improvement, but I still have troubles (more seldom now) with the hanging in H Brass and Woodwinds.


----------



## toddkedwards

Does anybody know if you can get a diminished chord in Voxos, using the Chords patch, er is it strictly major/minor only?


----------



## kurtvanzo

From the manual, only major and minor, but it does have inversions:

"The Chords patch is modeled after our popular CineOrch library, where each note plays an entire chord instead of an individual pitch class. The library divides the keyboard into six main sections (each an octave):

The three sections on the left correspond to the major chords, while the three right sections will trigger the minor chords. The blue keys play the chords in their root position, the yellow keys play the chords in first inversion, and the red keys play the second inversion of the chords."

I must admit I play most of my chords myself, so I rarely use the chord patch; but they do sound beautiful.


----------



## Musicam

I wait Spitfire Choir.


----------



## JTJohnson

Anyone have any thoughts on when Spitfire will release a choir library? Im just about to purchase Soundiron Olyumpus and Mercury Elements which to me sound special, especially Mercury. I do think Spitfire will be good like all thier libraries but one thing for sure is that it will no doubt be expensive and indepth and im not sure my needs require that level of complexities. 

What i like about Soundiron is they offer the elements series. i beleive this would be perfect for someone like myself who only uses choir to blend with a soaring orchestra and does not use it for intricate solo choir pieces.

Like all things there is very rarely a 'best' library. They all have strengths in different areas so you need to get the libraries that will work for you and your style.


----------



## Ultraxenon

JTJohnson said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on when Spitfire will release a choir library? Im just about to purchase Soundiron Olyumpus and Mercury Elements which to me sound special, especially Mercury. I do think Spitfire will be good like all thier libraries but one thing for sure is that it will no doubt be expensive and indepth and im not sure my needs require that level of complexities.
> 
> What i like about Soundiron is they offer the elements series. i beleive this would be perfect for someone like myself who only uses choir to blend with a soaring orchestra and does not use it for intricate solo choir pieces.
> 
> Like all things there is very rarely a 'best' library. They all have strengths in different areas so you need to get the libraries that will work for you and your style.


Agree with you, i have the full version of Mars, Venus and Mercury and i really like them, i think Mars is the weak one because the lack of dynamic range. Venus and Mercury is excellent. I use Mars and Venus on almost every orchestral and epic like track. I think this is a choir library that fits different style really well. Voxos was on second place when i decided what to buy. Here is a great tip i got from another composer if you ending up with Soundiron(maybe you allready know it) try to blend two patches togheter one with Legato and one without, but the same expression ect. It sounds much better.


----------



## Architekton

What do you guys think about Liberis?


----------



## sazema

At the end of this thread situation is not clear at all. Which choir is the best?
4 pages and all choir libraries are counted 
And which one is the best?
From what I saw, Strezov Freya and Arva are good choice, but for Wotan you have to fight with dynamics problems. There is a demonstration video on YT.
8dio Lacrimosa sounds plastic (synthy) from time to time.
Strezov Storm Choir II is apox. 100Gb, isn't that too much?


----------



## sazema




----------



## Ultraxenon

sazema said:


> At the end of this thread situation is not clear at all. Which choir is the best?
> 4 pages and all choir libraries are counted
> And which one is the best?
> From what I saw, Strezov Freya and Arya are good choice, but for Wotan you have to fight with dynamics problems. There is a demonstration video on YT.
> 8dio Lacrimosa sounds plastic (synthy) from time to time.
> Strezov Storm Choir II is apox. 100Gb, isn't that too much?


I think there is a reason for that almost every choir on the market is menotied in this thread and that is because there is no "best" choir. I think it depends on your music genre and if you like the sound of the library.
All of this high quality librarys from the best company's in the world are all very good in my opinion. Maybe some need a bit more work or has a bit more difficult UI, but in the end most of them sound great.


----------



## JT

I don't use choirs much, but I needed one last week. Picked up Soundiron Olympus Micro for a few bucks, and I think it's excellent. It doesn't have as many bells and whistles as other libraries, but the sound is wonderful and the price is right. Smartest purchase I've made in a long time.


----------



## Parsifal666

JT said:


> I don't use choirs much, but I needed one last week. Picked up Soundiron Olympus Micro for a few bucks, and I think it's excellent. It doesn't have as many bells and whistles as other libraries, but the sound is wonderful and the price is right. Smartest purchase I've made in a long time.



I have Olympus Elements and it can be great in certain contexts. Requiem Light is another, good, less expensive alternative. I often stack them together.


----------



## Rodney Money

I use the Soundiron Olympus Mico Choir all the time especially throughout this track starting at :47. For softer accompaniment I used "Dominus," and then the Russian word for louder passages:

And here is an example of using VOXOS blended with live singers. I used solo boy's voice, their new solo soprano, and the boy's choir blended with the live:


----------



## mcalis

@Parsifal666 I am surprised that you find the worldbuilder so horrible. I quite like it, though I wish I could set markers to jump to specific points in the text.

I actually find EWSC boy's choir better than Virharmonic's Czech boy's choir, and I am very sympathetic toward Virharmonic but I can do more with the worldbuilder then with the libretto engine.


----------



## kurtvanzo

Still like stacking Voxos, EWSC, and Realivox Blue. Put dynamics for each (plus aah to Ooo Voxos transitions) on CC foot pedals and you get a beautiful combo choir with wordbuilders and full dynamic control with your feet while you play with 2 hands.
Works amazing well for one pass choir.
http://realitone.com/blue/
Four Yamaha FC-7 volume pedals hooked into a quad usb adapter:
http://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php


----------



## Mike Fox

My vote goes to the choir featured in Ark 1. It's powerful, and cuts through the mix like a mofo! It's stupid easy to use too. 

Requiem Light comes in second place for me.


----------



## Mike Fox

Architekton said:


> What do you guys think about Liberis?


Liberis is a purchase I regret. I was pretty let down by the amount of noise and hiss that were embedded in the samples. I remember reading threads about EWQLSC being noisy, but Liberis takes it to a whole new level. To be fair though, the overall tone of the choir is beautiful, and the newly updated version may have polished it up a bit. I've yet to find out for myself though.


----------



## Parsifal666

mcalis said:


> @Parsifal666 I am surprised that you find the worldbuilder so horrible. I quite like it, though I wish I could set markers to jump to specific points in the text.
> 
> I actually find EWSC boy's choir better than Virharmonic's Czech boy's choir, and I am very sympathetic toward Virharmonic but I can do more with the worldbuilder then with the libretto engine.



I don't like the wordbuilder, have tons of trouble with it. However, otherwise East West SC are my no. 1 choir choice. I also like and use Requiem Light and Olympus Elements. The Soundiron stuff.


----------



## mouse

mikefox789 said:


> Liberis is a purchase I regret. I was pretty let down by the amount of noise and hiss that were embedded in the samples. I remember reading threads about EWQLSC being noisy, but Liberis takes it to a whole new level. To be fair though, the overall tone of the choir is beautiful, and the newly updated version may have polished it up a bit. I've yet to find out for myself though.


Did you get the new version? I did but haven't tried it out yet but assume they've removed a lot of the noise in the new update? I hope?


----------



## Morodiene

mcalis said:


> @Parsifal666 I am surprised that you find the worldbuilder so horrible. I quite like it, though I wish I could set markers to jump to specific points in the text.


 THIS. I have to work in small phrases otherwise to tweak something that's more than just one word (which you can do with SOLO), you have to play through the whole thing. You should be able to start anywhere that's the beginning of a word/note/syllable.


----------



## Mike Fox

mouse said:


> Did you get the new version? I did but haven't tried it out yet but assume they've removed a lot of the noise in the new update? I hope?


I actually just now tried the new version. It seems to sound MUCH better! They seemed to filter out a lot of the artifacts I was hearing before. The interface is a million times better as well.


----------



## JTJohnson

sazema said:


> At the end of this thread situation is not clear at all. Which choir is the best?
> 4 pages and all choir libraries are counted
> And which one is the best?
> From what I saw, Strezov Freya and Arva are good choice, but for Wotan you have to fight with dynamics problems. There is a demonstration video on YT.
> 8dio Lacrimosa sounds plastic (synthy) from time to time.
> Strezov Storm Choir II is apox. 100Gb, isn't that too much?


There is no best choir. All the top libraries are very good, you cannot go wrong with any of them. It's what you do with them that counts


----------



## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry..

This is like asking who grows the best asparagus, farmers in Ireland or farmers in Papua New Guinea? Everyone knows that it is the farmers on Easter Island. Why does this question even have to be asked? Maybe the asker is like an arsonist watching the news for his fire story, waiting to see how many hits they get on the forum.

I was thinking of starting a topic like this. Which is better with accordion tracks, whirly tubes or mouth harp? Talk amongst yourselves. 

I'm joking @nik. Everybody take a breath....... These "which is best" topics always make the sarcasm well up in me and as they say: "Sarcasm is a grumpy man's wit." My nickname is "Old Mr. Grumpus." I don't steal children's baseballs when they land in my yard yet, but I want to. Just kidding. I give it back and buy them 3 more baseballs.


----------



## sazema

JTJohnson said:


> There is no best choir. All the top libraries are very good, you cannot go wrong with any of them. It's what you do with them that counts



Totally agree with you, this is not my thread, not my question... There is no best at all, but it should be *"recommended"* after many years. But, I understood this question, like any other in a fashion of "best". People tend to not spend a lot of money.

If we look at articulations, quality, possibility, size, choir fragments (mans, woman, children) etc.
I mean, buying one choir library just because it has good legato patch of mans section is not good for someone who need complete basic choir with decent sound, quality and palette of articulations, because after a while you will buy another one just because of staccato patches  At the end you will have 200 Gb of just choirs on your drive and much less money...
Just question of classical choir, where you can expect good results, not Bulgarian type, not Demon type, not bla bla bla.


----------



## Hans

If anyone haven't noticed then audioplugin.deals has an insane offer from Soundiron including Venus Symphonic Women’s Choir, Voice of Gaia: Bryn, Cymbology, Drinking Piano and Steel Tones., for $99.

https://audioplugin.deals/
Hurry it ends April 19th.


----------



## Fleer

Hans said:


> If anyone haven't noticed then audioplugin.deals has an insane offer from Soundiron including Venus Symphonic Women’s Choir, Voice of Gaia: Bryn, Cymbology, Drinking Piano and Steel Tones., for $99.
> 
> https://audioplugin.deals/
> Hurry it ends April 19th.


Say that again. I'm so happy with these libraries, especially Venus and Bryn. They are absolutely superb, as most of what Soundiron has to offer. But these are some of their best.


----------



## Ninjur

Hans said:


> If anyone haven't noticed then audioplugin.deals has an insane offer from Soundiron including Venus Symphonic Women’s Choir, Voice of Gaia: Bryn, Cymbology, Drinking Piano and Steel Tones., for $99.
> 
> https://audioplugin.deals/
> Hurry it ends April 19th.


this is a no brainer probably, just for Venus alone?
I am saving for Voxos or maybe SC2, but for 99 i think Venus is more than worth it!


----------



## Ultraxenon

Fleer said:


> Say that again. I'm so happy with these libraries, especially Venus and Bryn. They are absolutely superb, as most of what Soundiron has to offer. But these are some of their best.


Agree, Venus is fantastic, use it almost on every track. I do think Bryn sound amazing, but it havent got a place in a track yet.


----------



## Ultraxenon

Ninjur said:


> this is a no brainer probably, just for Venus alone?
> I am saving for Voxos or maybe SC2, but for 99 i think Venus is more than worth it!


No doubt, it is a great library. I think it is a good allround choir sound that fits different genre.


----------



## SoundChris

Ok - so i own: Strezov Samples: Storm Choir I, II, Wotan & Freyja; 8Dio: Requiem Pro, Liberis, Lacrimosa; Bestservice: Mystica, Cantus; Soundiron: Mercury; EWQL Symphonic Choirs Platinum VOTA. Means: I do know most of the libraries out there very well. And my conclusion is simple:

For me there is no doubt at all that the Strezov Choirs are just superior when it comes to classical and cinematic / epic / fantasy choir sounds. I am stil saving to finally get arva and to complete my Next Generation Choir Collection. Just listen to this awesome sounds:

Storm Choir II:


Freyja:


Arva:



Wotan:
Here is my own personal demo: 

I think the quality of the mockups just shows how extremely awesome these choirs are. Right now there is no other choir product that can mess with the Strezovs.

I also like the sound of the new choir by Jasper Blunk - Oceania. It sounds awesome for short performances but is a little bit overpriced IMO because you just can play loud and epic stuff - the big plus is definitely the playability and the great flexibility for epic and fast tracks.

What also is extremely awesome is the Bestservice Mystics Female Choir if you are looking for a medieval kind of sound - next to the strezovs my favourit choir. Like i said: I use it for medieval and celtic productions:
https://soundcloud.com/soundchris-1/sacerdotes-sanctuarii-mystica-demo

Hope that helped!


----------



## sazema

Strezov Arva and Freya are superior, don't like Wotan.
Voxos II has one problem, as any other choir library indeed, lower pitches sounds like synth. So you have mid range of keyboard where choir sounds like natural, if you want man bass it sounds so un-natural (I know it's not a natural voice, than sample is pitched down). Same thing with Lacrimosa choir. It's good but lower pitches are terrible.
Don't own Strom Choir so I don't know about it.


----------



## brynolf

All I have is 8Dio Lacrimosa. I like the sound, but there is a severe lack of "mmm":s on some of the instruments. And the legatos sound kind of bad, like synthetic pitch bends.


----------



## Vastman

Hans said:


> If anyone haven't noticed then audioplugin.deals has an insane offer from Soundiron including Venus Symphonic Women’s Choir, Voice of Gaia: Bryn, Cymbology, Drinking Piano and Steel Tones., for $99.
> 
> https://audioplugin.deals/
> Hurry it ends April 19th.


ANYBODY CLAIMING to be searching for an amazing choir who ignores this friggin insane deal IS INSANE


----------



## Vastman

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> This is like asking who grows the best asparagus, farmers in Ireland or farmers in Papua New Guinea? Everyone knows that it is the farmers on Easter Island. Why does this question even have to be asked? Maybe the asker is like an arsonist watching the news for his fire story, waiting to see how many hits they get on the forum.
> 
> I was thinking of starting a topic like this. Which is better with accordion tracks, whirly tubes or mouth harp? Talk amongst yourselves.
> 
> I'm joking @nik. Everybody take a breath....... These "which is best" topics always make the sarcasm well up in me and as they say: "Sarcasm is a grumpy man's wit." My nickname is "Old Mr. Grumpus." I don't steal children's baseballs when they land in my yard yet, but I want to. Just kidding. I give it back and buy them 3 more baseballs.



If you know anything about asparagus, you'd Know that the BEST asparagus is grown at home... I will miss my butter tender melting in the mouth Snip & eat crop dearly.

You're sooooo cruel!


----------



## markleake

anthraxsnax said:


> As far as soundiron, I bought the deal for the drunk piano haha so the choir cost me 30$ and I'm sure it's useful, just not for words when ewqlsc is insanely more tweakable


But just so people don't get the wrong idea... EWSC is also insanely more frustrating and time-consuming compared to the approach the Soundiron choir libraries take.


----------



## jononotbono

Vastman said:


> ANYBODY CLAIMING to be searching for an amazing choir who ignores this friggin insane deal IS INSANE



I think I need to buy this. The deal seems amazing. How does Venus stack up compared to every other Choir library? So far, I only own the Choir in M Ark 1 and the one in Kontakt Factory library so I could definitely do with expanding my Vox section of my Jono not Bonophonic Orchestra.


----------



## Vastman

Lots of discussion both in this forum and here...

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/deal-get-86-off-soundiron-5-in-1-bundle.61103/
http://forum.cakewalk.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3587308&fp=2

Truly a lovely kit


----------



## Parsifal666

Vastman said:


> ANYBODY CLAIMING to be searching for an amazing choir who ignores this friggin insane deal IS INSANE



That's quite the recommendation...I'd better start looking into this more, time's running out.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I looked at this, but then realised since I own EWQL SC, there is no need to get it. Think as with everything is so easy to go, OH I NEED that....then there is the question of need and want, which more than often is blurred considerably.

I have Composer Cloud Plus, CineSamples Brass (ALL), Tina Guo, Heavyocity stuff, Komplete 10U, all 8DIO Strings and 1969 Piano and to be honest using all of that fully, is going to take even the most productive composer a long time to get through. I only say this because over the years I have fallen so far into the consumer mindset of sample libraries, that I have often been on sites checking out libraries more than making any music.

It has taken me this long to pull out of that sample-aholic trap, that I know many have run into. I regret perhaps a small margin of my libraries though fortunately.

I also found out that if I hear a library, I got to the ones I have and ask "can I use mixing tricks and tools to make what I have either close or the same?" and in most cases I have found I can


----------



## Ninjur

I just bought VOXOS last week on sale and i will complete it with Venus and i think i am good for a while(my first Choirs).

i agree with you _Shad0wLands, _consumer trap is a nasty addiction, like beeing hardware slut or testing all possible VSTs(been there, done that).
It's similar with forums, learning....finally most important is to make music as much as possible!


----------



## galactic orange

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I looked at this, but then realised since I own EWQL SC, there is no need to get it. Think as with everything is so easy to go, OH I NEED that....then there is the question of need and want, which more than often is blurred considerably.



I've got Freyja and Olympus Elements so I'm not sure that adding Venus is worth even the amazing price. If I were someone looking for my first choir I'd snap it up at that price no question. But after a mad couple of years of obsessive researching, vacillating, spending, sometimes satisfaction and sometimes regret, I'm getting close to having "enough" of my sample library bases covered.

It seems that with choirs (and to a certain extent strings and brass) there's only so much I can make good use of before I should just get on with making music. I have yet to be convinced that I NEED Venus, but I have read the feature list and the deal is so good that I'm still thinking about it. Has anyone with Olympus Elements upgraded to Venus and found it to be light years better?


----------



## Musicam

For me ist a hard option. Good choirs vst but I need the right way. Money is money, money, money, another library, money, money. I need to look forward. I dont need a choir that says "Gloria! "Aleluya" and things like that. I need a cinematic choir for screen. SuperNatural.


----------



## jononotbono

Musicam said:


> I need a cinematic choir for screen



I noticed in the JXL Template Building video (in series 1 episode) that Venus is one of the only Choirs he uses. So, in my opinion Venus is very much a good enough choir for Screen.

I actually only had M Ark 1 Choir (Love it) so I definitely had room to buy Venus. Can't wait to learn it properly!


----------



## Ultraxenon

galactic orange said:


> I've got Freyja and Olympus Elements so I'm not sure that adding Venus is worth even the amazing price. If I were someone looking for my first choir I'd snap it up at that price no question. But after a mad couple of years of obsessive researching, vacillating, spending, sometimes satisfaction and sometimes regret, I'm getting close to having "enough" of my sample library bases covered.
> 
> It seems that with choirs (and to a certain extent strings and brass) there's only so much I can make good use of before I should just get on with making music. I have yet to be convinced that I NEED Venus, but I have read the feature list and the deal is so good that I'm still thinking about it. Has anyone with Olympus Elements upgraded to Venus and found it to be light years better?


I started with Olympus elements and after some months i bought Venus, Mars and Mercury. I didnt have any other choir so i cant compare, but i really think it sounds a lot better than elements and of course a lot more content. I use Venus and Mercury a lot, Mars not that much.


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## Shad0wLandsUK

galactic orange said:


> I've got Freyja and Olympus Elements so I'm not sure that adding Venus is worth even the amazing price. If I were someone looking for my first choir I'd snap it up at that price no question. But after a mad couple of years of obsessive researching, vacillating, spending, sometimes satisfaction and sometimes regret, I'm getting close to having "enough" of my sample library bases covered.
> 
> It seems that with choirs (and to a certain extent strings and brass) there's only so much I can make good use of before I should just get on with making music. I have yet to be convinced that I NEED Venus, but I have read the feature list and the deal is so good that I'm still thinking about it. Has anyone with Olympus Elements upgraded to Venus and found it to be light years better?


For me, if I were to get any it would be ARVA. That is something that EWSC does not cover, yes it has the boys, but not the girls and they are graceful also.

FREYJA is awesome as well, perhaps one day as right now I realised the weak point in my libraries is choirs. But as said just before me, money money money money, not working right now and I already went over my agreed budget (like there is such a thing  ) with myself so far this pay check


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## Vastman

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I looked at this, but then realised since I own EWQL SC, there is no need to get it. Think as with everything is so easy to go, OH I NEED that....then there is the question of need and want, which more than often is blurred considerably.
> 
> I have Composer Cloud Plus, CineSamples Brass (ALL), Tina Guo, Heavyocity stuff, Komplete 10U, all 8DIO Strings and 1969 Piano and to be honest using all of that fully, is going to take even the most productive composer a long time to get through. I only say this because over the years I have fallen so far into the consumer mindset of sample libraries, that I have often been on sites checking out libraries more than making any music.
> 
> It has taken me this long to pull out of that sample-aholic trap, that I know many have run into. I regret perhaps a small margin of my libraries though fortunately.
> 
> I also found out that if I hear a library, I got to the ones I have and ask "can I use mixing tricks and tools to make what I have either close or the same?" and in most cases I have found I can



As one who's acquired an endless bounty of magical tools, I empathize with many of your thoughts. Ultimately it all depends on your perspective.

On the string front I own many wonderful libraries and feel Novo completes my long sought after desire to do things I've always been yearning to do and can put this realm of acquisition to bed for awhile.

However , despite owning EW and a few other vocal/choral libs , Venus is absolutely gorgeous and exceeds that of the others on so many fronts that to ignore this opportunity, for me, seems foolish. The price is so generous... It is a spellbinding collection of exquisite depth and is pretty much a gift I could not ignore


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## Dominik Raab

I apologise for not reading the whole thread, but I've got a very specific question, and I'm hoping some of the experts here can help me. Which full choir VST (if not possible, females are more important for my needs) have the best staccato notes in your opinion?

I love Symphonic Choirs, but they don't have the crisp, "bang" staccato notes I sometimes feel I need. An example would be the beginning of this song:



Does anything come to mind?


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## JonSolo

I agree with VOTA.


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## Dominik Raab

Thank you both! Probably did something wrong, as I do have VOTA, but didn't manage to get great staccati out of it. Might have to reassess the situation. 

@anthraxsnax: Compression is really bad on this one, couldn't find a better version. It does sound great to me without the horrible compression, but that's of course subjective.


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## markleake

Dominik Raab said:


> I apologise for not reading the whole thread, but I've got a very specific question, and I'm hoping some of the experts here can help me. Which full choir VST (if not possible, females are more important for my needs) have the best staccato notes in your opinion?
> 
> I love Symphonic Choirs, but they don't have the crisp, "bang" staccato notes I sometimes feel I need. An example would be the beginning of this song:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anything come to mind?



There are a huge number of demo tracks for the various choir libraries that Soundiron offer. Venus, Mars, Mercury and Requiem Light are all great libaries. A lot of the demos include shorts/staccatos.... go have a listen and see if they suit you.

8dio have multiple choir offerings, as do Strezov Sampling, and there are other companies also. I don't have anything from Strezov, but I've heard plenty of good things, so maybe Soundiron and Strezov are the best place to start researching this.

And even though some people in this thread seem particularly tied to EWSC, my understanding is it's not really designed to cover the strong/epic style. Personally I've never found myself using it that way. I think the Strezov and Souniron choirs, or something like MArk I, would be where you should start looking.


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## zacnelson

I don't know if this is appropriate, but I'd like to just post a couple of examples of tracks I've done with Venus. I think it's a phenomenal library, suited to airy emotional lines, powerful staccato/marcato chants, and inspiring dramatic climaxes. 




(In the second example, the choir comes in at 1:00, and is an interesting example of using a choir with pop music).


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## Dominik Raab

@markleake: Thank you for this very detailed reply; I'll make sure to check out the products you mentioned.


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## Ultra

Morodiene said:


> THIS. I have to work in small phrases otherwise to tweak something that's more than just one word (which you can do with SOLO), you have to play through the whole thing. You should be able to start anywhere that's the beginning of a word/note/syllable.



@Morodiene: Not sure if I understand u correctly, but u can do this in EWQL SC & WB:

> in WB in the text window, position the cursor where u want to start the playback
> press F4
> play notes

it will start playing the phrase where the cursor is positioned. AFAIK, u cannot (automatically) loop back to this start point, but hitting F4 again will start there again whenever u want.

HTH.


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## Marcin M

Anyone heard about that one?

http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-choirs

Coming in 3-4 months, can't wait for some demos to come out, to hear what it sounds like


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## Parsifal666

markleake said:


> But just so people don't get the wrong idea... EWSC is also insanely more frustrating and time-consuming compared to the approach the Soundiron choir libraries take.



I really like Soundiron's RL and OE. But the only time I had a hard time with EWSC was when trying to program the verdammt Wordbuilder (oh, and some hanging notes...nowhere near as often now with the Play updates).


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## markleake

Parsifal666 said:


> I really like Soundiron's RL and OE. But the only time I had a hard time with EWSC was when trying to program the verdammt Wordbuilder (oh, and some hanging notes...nowhere near as often now with the Play updates).


Same here. But my post was responding to a post about the word builder in EWSC.


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## bap_la_so_1

Soundiron is on sale and shiet, im in need of a choir lib
Should i go with OE or RL? What are the different between the two?
Or should i wait for Hollywood choir?
I have no need for multi mics. Mainly use the choir to back the vocal up, or make the tracks epicer, think symphonic power metal bands like rhapsody of fire,.....


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## Parsifal666

bap_la_so_1 said:


> Soundiron is on sale and shiet, im in need of a choir lib
> Should i go with OE or RL? What are the different between the two?
> Or should i wait for Hollywood choir?
> I have no need for multi mics. Mainly use the choir to back the vocal up, or make the tracks epicer, think symphonic power metal bands like rhapsody of fire,.....



Oh this is more of a Pop thing (when I use the term Pop I mean all inclusive genres like Rock, Country, Metal, they all share common ground structurally). I would highly recommend both Olympus Elements and Requiem Light, but if you just want one, go for RL. The latter really stepped up with their last update imo, and would make a fine addition for the type of music you mentioned (I like the song *Unholy Warcry* by Rhapsody, though I don't recall the "of Fire" thing). It's a fun tune).

Though if you simply go for Composer Cloud you'll get all the choirs existent and incoming...but you'll have to work harder.

I used Garritan for a Pop opera thing I did ten years ago, and even that didn't sound strikingly bad. When I used EWSC on a more recent CD, it changed the sound of the overall song...Requiem Light didn't.


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## bap_la_so_1

Balefire said:


> Oceania by Performance Samples deserves a mention. It's particularly good at brisk staccato phrases, something which most choir libraries fail at. Dirk Ehlert and Blakus have both done walkthroughs on YouTube.


i couldnt get a hand on performance samples atm because of kontakt player....

@Parsifal666 thank you for your suggestion. What's troubling me is RL is quite "old", and pretty wet, compared to OE. Can i use cc to cross-fade between dynamic layers?


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## Musicam

EastWest Sound coming soon


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## Parsifal666

bap_la_so_1 said:


> i couldnt get a hand on performance samples atm because of kontakt player....
> 
> @Parsifal666 thank you for your suggestion. What's troubling me is RL is quite "old", and pretty wet, compared to OE. Can i use cc to cross-fade between dynamic layers?



First off, RL is NOT "old", as mentioned above there was a significant update this year. Secondly, yes, and it's pretty easy to do.

You might want to first make sure of how "authentic" and "detailed" you want your choir, when most Pop listeners won't really be paying that much attention. Trust me on this. That's how I got away with Garritan.


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## Celestial Aeon

For softer sound I really love 8Dio Insolidus. It is just so playable. At least for my intuition it just fun to play and it gives you quite closely what you think it will. Here is one sample tune I mainly created with it:


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## Ultra

What I like about EWQL SC is, that you can pretty much recreate any word in any language...

is there any other choir lib out there that can do that as well ? Not just a few pre-chosen syllables or recorded phrases, but literally the ability to build _*any*_ word...


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## JohnG

I agree with Ultra -- I like being able to write whatever I want and EWQLSC does that. Yes, to get it "perfect" takes a long time, but to knock out a pretty good (often good enough for final) is quick and, I would say, easy. It's much easier in my view than the libraries that require you to work with a menu of words / syllables.

[note: I have received free products from East West]


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## ghandizilla

The question is about disposing of a choir library that would encompass the most possible applications. My go-to is Strezov Sampling products. A joy to play, a profound versatility, it just fits to everything. And it sounds natural. On the other hand, I'm not convinced by the necessity to dispose of a worldbuilder, because of auditory hallucinations (you can actually hear other syllables when near sounding words are displayed or suggested).


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## Ultra

ghandizilla said:


> The question is about disposing of a choir library that would encompass the most possible applications. My go-to is Strezov Sampling products. A joy to play, a profound versatility, it just fits to everything. And it sounds natural. On the other hand, I'm not convinced by the necessity to dispose of a worldbuilder, because of auditory hallucinations (you can actually hear other syllables when near sounding words are displayed or suggested).


Strezov is well sampled... but try to do the word "reclaim"... 2 syllables: "re" and "claim"

all depends on what u need, I guess


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## ghandizilla

I do not object to that. You have about a dozen syllables with Strezov products. But once again: I'm not convinced by the necessity to use actual words. It's not as important as that. Sometimes, it's necessary, because of the request of a client. But most of the time, it's just an overestimated feature. Just type "misheard lyrics" over Google.


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## Ultra

well, here's my opinion - having just not too long ago compared choirs:

EWQL SC does everything any other choir does (and way more), with these exceptions top of my head:

(1) Strezov Storm Choir has more mics - EWQL SC "only" has three, but IMO EWQL SC sounds better than Storm Choir once u set up the mics properly

(2) there is one specialized children choir that has girls, EWQL SC only has boys

Anything else EWQL SC beats any other choir or at least (easily) matches what they offer. If u wanna write gibberish, which is what u do with the very limited amount of syllables in other choirs, u can do that too with EWQL. U can do _*anything*_.

But the point of these syllables available in other choirs is to build latin or latin-ish phrases... because nobody speaks latin nowadays (it doesn't actually have to mean something, audiences don't know) but those phrases have an epic effect (psychologically)... well, u can actually do any real latin phrases with EWQL SC... not just gibberish...

Soudiron has pre-recorded latin phrases... EWQL SC beats all of those as u can re-create any of those... matter of fact it comes with 50 or so built in phrases (phrases as text in VOTOX) that are flawlessly performed out of the box - flawlessly performed by all voices: SATBB (not just one of them)... all built-into Wordbuilder... zero hassle...

but - on top of all of that - with EWQL SC u have control over _*every single letter of every syllable*_... u can do whatever... legato, sustain, how long etc etc etc on _*every single letter*_... that is massively powerful. if u want that. if u want gibberish, u can do that too.

In addition, EWQL SC can sound very big, and then very small. U can get pretty much any sound u're after. Most of the other choir libs are either one or the other.

So if I was looking for a new choir lib, I would seriously check this out. Nothing beats this, IMO. Actually very surprised nobody put out something like that in the last 10 years.

and regarding audibly understanding what the choirs sings:

(a) it's a choir after all, it's not a pop song so it will be a little mushy (like any real choir)

(b) with EWQL SC and wordbuilder u can tweak any single letter of every word until it is as pronounced as u want. No limits.


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## markleake

I think EWQL SC needs the extension library to get the loudest dynamics.


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## elpedro

Ultra said:


> well, here's my opinion - having just not too long ago compared choirs:
> 
> EWQL SC does everything any other choir does (and way more), with these exceptions top of my head:
> 
> (1) Strezov Storm Choir has more mics - EWQL SC "only" has three, but IMO EWQL SC sounds better than Storm Choir once u set up the mics properly
> 
> (2) there is one specialized children choir that has girls, EWQL SC only has boys
> 
> Anything else EWQL SC beats any other choir or at least (easily) matches what they offer. If u wanna write gibberish, which is what u do with the very limited amount of syllables in other choirs, u can do that too with EWQL. U can do _*anything*_.
> 
> But the point of these syllables available in other choirs is to build latin or latin-ish phrases... because nobody speaks latin nowadays (it doesn't actually have to mean something, audiences don't know) but those phrases have an epic effect (psychologically)... well, u can actually do any real latin phrases with EWQL SC... not just gibberish...
> 
> Soudiron has pre-recorded latin phrases... EWQL SC beats all of those as u can re-create any of those... matter of fact it comes with 50 or so built in phrases (phrases as text in VOTOX) that are flawlessly performed out of the box - flawlessly performed by all voices: SATBB (not just one of them)... all built-into Wordbuilder... zero hassle...
> 
> but - on top of all of that - with EWQL SC u have control over _*every single letter of every syllable*_... u can do whatever... legato, sustain, how long etc etc etc on _*every single letter*_... that is massively powerful. if u want that. if u want gibberish, u can do that too.
> 
> In addition, EWQL SC can sound very big, and then very small. U can get pretty much any sound u're after. Most of the other choir libs are either one or the other.
> 
> So if I was looking for a new choir lib, I would seriously check this out. Nothing beats this, IMO. Actually very surprised nobody put out something like that in the last 10 years.
> 
> and regarding audibly understanding what the choirs sings:
> 
> (a) it's a choir after all, it's not a pop song so it will be a little mushy (like any real choir)
> 
> (b) with EWQL SC and wordbuilder u can tweak any single letter of every word until it is as pronounced as u want. No limits.


Yup no limits except on your time, sweating over each letter and syllable for hours, and the realism really isn't spectacular either, I do agree that it has the best word-builder by far, but as far as "realism" goes, they all suck.


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## Ultra

elpedro said:


> Yup no limits except on your time, sweating over each letter and syllable for hours, and the realism really isn't spectacular either, I do agree that it has the best word-builder by far, but as far as "realism" goes, they all suck.


in my (limited) experience, u're not sweating over each letter... u're only sweating over the parts that don't work in your custom phrase, ergo flow properly (and then fortunately u have tools to address that)... but u need to understand and know WB... once u know some tricks how to get certain phonetic sounds done, u'll repeat that...

but it would help if there was a full fledged, in detail tutorial series of how to squeeze the most out of WB...


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## Musicam

We need to wait to see.


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## Johnny

SillyMidOn said:


> Well you are lucky if there are only a few things that annoy you about Symphonic Choirs ...
> 
> I own a lot of choirs, and in my opinion the one that comes with Metropolis Ark is the best. Not the most versatile at all (no control over syllables on the marcatos or staccatos, only one vowel sound on the legates), but boy oh boy does it sound good, and the staccato is by far the best of any library, the staccato is very accurate.


Absolutely 100% agreed! The Ark1 choir is unmatched. (For loud bombastic scores that is...) The Ark 1 choir just adds a deminsion to your score that blankets all of your other instruments into a virtual space like none other IMO.

I do still use Liberis for softer writing and EWSO Choirs for everything in between.
I'm going to hold out for HW Choirs because it might be the next quantum leap in WB technology ;p


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## coflover

Hey peeps,

Does anybody recognise the choir sound from this song?



Song was recorded in late 2000 so I'm sure it's *not a VSTi* - it's gotta be a sample library.
I also know that the guy used choir samples from a library called Peter Siedlaczek's Classical Choir in other arrangements, such as the Eeh-Aah-Ooh sample.

Is the "throaty" alto choir sound (from the video I posted) also on the Classical Choir Sample CD? Anybody recognise it who might have that library?

Thank you very much in advance.


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## Darren Durann

East West Symphonic Choirs Platinum

You have a learning curve with this, but I haven't owned or heard anything that works for my music better. It's a stunningly great library to this very day imo.


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## Mike Fox

markleake said:


> Same here. But my post was responding to a post about the word builder in EWSC.


Do you remember when the world builder wasnt integrated into the main GUI? Now that was a nightmare!


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## kimarnesen

Does anyone have experience with the Oceania choir? It is for sale through today for $149.


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## JonSolo

mrarnesen said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Oceania choir? It is for sale through today for $149.


Lots on this. It is not a conventional style library but what it does, namely epic, is done well. If you Met Ark, it might be a little overkill, but I love it as a standing epic choir or a fill in when I am creating fast.

It can be key switched for a better shape...but no other epic choir is played this easily and fast.


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## Darren Durann

I don't know about Oceania, but if you're looking for a good lower priced choir library there's Requiem Lite, which can be very useful. It layers pretty well with EWSC too, if you're interested at all in that.


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## Mundano

now it seems to be the best library this one:
https://fluffyaudio.com/shop/dominuschoir/


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## sostenuto

Darren Durann said:


> I don't know about Oceania, but if you're looking for a good lower priced choir library there's Requiem Lite, which can be very useful. It layers pretty well with EWSC too, if you're interested at all in that.



Quite a content size difference as well ..... but then compression type must be normalized? 
These are both interesting choices at less than $200.


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## Mike Fox

Darren Durann said:


> I don't know about Oceania, but if you're looking for a good lower priced choir library there's Requiem Lite, which can be very useful. It layers pretty well with EWSC too, if you're interested at all in that.


I agree. Easy to use, and sounds awesome in the mix.


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## kimarnesen

Mundano said:


> now it seems to be the best library this one:
> https://fluffyaudio.com/shop/dominuschoir/



Well, what worries me is that the demos on their site - well, they are just not performing the music right. It sounds very strange, like the Mozart Lacrimosa sounding like cluster chords, and Mozart did not write the piece like that (!). So I don't know if it's the library that's hard to use, or just not used correctly.

Having said that, the music by Nunez sounds lovely with the library, so maybe it's the programming of the demos that was the issue.


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## HiEnergy

mrarnesen said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Oceania choir?


No thorough experience on my side, but I bought the discounted Oceania and tried it out for an hour or so...
Just playing some chord stabs with this sounds *gorgeous*! I can easily imagine getting addicted to writing for this very library...

Did you check out this?


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## bill5

bump


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## Casiquire

bill5 said:


> bump



Nothing has changed, EWQLSC and HC are the only libraries that can truly sing what i want them to.


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## Ryan Robles

Hi guys. There is choir software out there that allows you to enter lyrics as opposed to building words and phrases. I don't remember what it is and can't seem to find it. Does anyone here know what I'm referring to? Thanks.


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## Dominik Raab

Ryan Robles said:


> Hi guys. There is choir software out there that allows you to enter lyrics as opposed to building words and phrases. I don't remember what it is and can't seem to find it. Does anyone here know what I'm referring to? Thanks.



Just like the post directly above yours says (in our usual cryptic, abbreviated manner), you're probably talking about East West Quantum Leap Symphonic Choirs (older library) and Hollywood Choirs (newer library).


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## ManicMiner

I own Requiem Light. Its good value for money with a decent sound but it takes work (programming) to make it sound good. Its not very playable. The Swell is too sensitive, but I can get around this by tweaking the midi input in my DAW.


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## MartinH.

ManicMiner said:


> I own Requiem Light. Its good value for money with a decent sound but it takes work (programming) to make it sound good. Its not very playable. The Swell is too sensitive, but I can get around this by tweaking the midi input in my DAW.



You posted about an issue with that library a while ago, did that get resolved? I asked for an example, but you never answered. I have the library too and pretty much agree with your assessment here: good value but you gotta put in the work too.


----------

