# Starting and ending a chord progression on a Tonic...?



## Puzzlefactory (Dec 7, 2016)

I'm reading a book (Harmony for Computer Musicians) in which the author talks about the most satisfying resolution being the tonic chord.

However, whenever I write a progression I avoid this, simply because it feels weird for me to end and then start a progression on the same chord. It's like having one sustained note passing over the threshold of the end of one section and the beginning of another.

Does anyone else have this sort of discomfort with starting and ending (and then starting again) a progression on the same chord?

Anyone have any tips for getting around it?

Obviously things like stabs and stings and hits can be used to create a sense of separation between sections but I was thinking more in terms of composition...


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## Paul T McGraw (Dec 8, 2016)

Yep, I know exactly what you are talking about @Puzzlefactory and have often felt trapped by my conflicting sense of a need to end a phrase with a tonic, and a need to avoid that sense of finality created by a cadence to the tonic. The author of that book is quite correct that a cadence to the tonic is the most satisfying end of a phrase, but it is sort of like ending a meal with chocolate cake. Very satisfying, but too much of a good thing will make anyone sick. The classical masters are my source of inspiration for answers.

One strategy is to use elision, which is to start the next phrase in the same bar as the previous phrase ends. Instead of having one bar of tonic ending the old phrase and one bar of tonic starting the new phrase, we have the one bar of tonic serving both roles. Once you google it and listen to a few examples it will be obvious. Another strategy is to end the phrase with a dominant chord, called a half cadence. This leads naturally to a tonic to start the next phrase. Another strategy is to use an evaded or deceptive cadence, the most typical example being to end the phrase on a submediant (vi) chord. There are a number of evasion techniques.

However, our musical minds are trained by our lifetime of listening to want that perfect cadence, so you can not always avoid it. So other things to do would include starting a new ostinato or accompaniment pattern in the bar of the cadence, or using a run or other characteristic pattern within your cadence bar that will lead into the next phrase.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 8, 2016)

Puzzlefactory said:


> I'm reading a book (Harmony for Computer Musicians) in which the author talks about the most satisfying resolution being the tonic chord.
> 
> However, whenever I write a progression I avoid this, simply because it feels weird for me to end and then start a progression on the same chord. It's like having one sustained note passing over the threshold of the end of one section and the beginning of another.
> 
> ...



Then you're experiencing a discomfort shared by Beethoven and Wagner (and at least hinted at by Mozart in his letters).

For a hopefully helpful example of a piece that strenuously forestalls complete resolution (for the vast majority of its contents), see Wagner's Tristan und Isolde (a revolution in that regard, among others).


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## tokatila (Dec 8, 2016)

Puzzlefactory said:


> I'm reading a book (Harmony for Computer Musicians) in which the author talks about the most satisfying resolution being the tonic chord.
> 
> However, whenever I write a progression I avoid this, simply because it feels weird for me to end and then start a progression on the same chord. It's like having one sustained note passing over the threshold of the end of one section and the beginning of another.
> 
> ...



Simple examples:

a) In progression: i - III - VII - i in A minor, you could on the second i chord, don't use a as your melody note (1st of the chord), this gives a phrase greater finality than for example e-note (5th of the chord)

b) Use inversions, for example change progression i - VI - IV - i to i - VI - IV - i6, this gives it more instability. You can also use i64 chord. Or start the phrase with an inversion, eg. i6 - VI6 - VII6 - I


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## Puzzlefactory (Dec 8, 2016)

Thanks guys, certainly food for thought (and nice to know I'm in good company too).

I have played around with the idea of inversions as well as doubling up the progression an octave higher (adding violins to a bass, cello and viola progresssion for example). 

The idea of adding an ostinato to a new section is interesting too.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 8, 2016)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Thanks guys, certainly food for thought (and nice to know I'm in good company too).
> 
> I have played around with the idea of inversions as well as doubling up the progression an octave higher (adding violins to a bass, cello and viola progresssion for example).
> 
> The idea of adding an ostinato to a new section is interesting too.



Sounds to me like you're on the right track!


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## Morodiene (Dec 8, 2016)

There is definitely a "pull" towards tonic, especially when preceded by dominant (perfect cadence), but there is also tension that occurs when something other than tonic happens. That delayed gratification is part of what keeps a piece interesting, and knowing when to actually give the audience what they want to hear.

Here's something else about inversions which are very cool:

1. If you want major-sounding harmonies: Major root position chords, minor 1st inversions, and major 2nd inversions
2. If you want minor sounding harmonies: Minor root position chords, major 1st inversions, and minor 2nd inversions

Another way to avoid predictable harmonies is to change keys. But instead of "modulating" with secondary dominant (which is valid, but can be a bit clunky), I prefer to do what J.S. Bach would do. He would change one note that would imply a new key. Some are obvious, but there are a few surprises:

From a Major Key (in parentheses I'll give examples in the key of C Major):
1. #4 scale degree = the key of V (i.e., F# = G major)
2. b7 scale degree = the key of IV (i.e., Bb = F major)
3. #5 scale degree = the key of vi harmonic minor (i.e., G# = A harm minor)
4. b3 scale degree = the key of i melodic minor (i.e., Eb = C mel minor)
5. #1 scale degree = the key of ii melodic minor (i.e., C# = D mel minor)

From a melodic Minor Key (i.e., C mel minor):
1. #3 = the key of parallel Major (i.e., E-nat = C major)
2. b6 = same key harmonic minor (i.e., Ab = C harm minor)
3. b7 = the key of bVII (i.e., Bb = Bb Major)

From a harmonic Minor Key (i.e., C harm minor):
1. #6 = the key of i melodic minor (i.e., A-nat = C mel minor)
2. b7 = the key of III major (i.e., Bb = Eb Major)

There are a couple of special shifts you can do to change two notes at once, but this is all outlined in an article by Marianne Ploger called "Heptachord Shift: Understanding Modulation in Real Time": (clicking this link will download the pdf)
http://static1.squarespace.com/stat...5/1421286443529/Heptachord+Shift+Overview.pdf


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## Living Fossil (Dec 8, 2016)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Anyone have any tips for getting around it?



In music, there are no absolutistic rules or theories.
They always relate to specific styles.

The biggest influence in today's filmscores and trailer sounds is the harmonic language of popular music between 1960-1990, which relies heavily on (simplified) models of the classical heritage, but also on specific formulas and vocabularies that are quite unique (e.g. the way in which modality is used sometimes).
However, there is no reason why one couldn't try out different ways.

Not only there is no reason why one has to start and end on the tonic, there even is no reason why one has to think in terms of tonic etc. at all.
When composing music the only "right" that exists is the creative imagination which communicates with the composer through his inner ears.
That's why the most important thing is to develop your inner hearing. Once you know what your hearing inside, the questions are solved....


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## tokatila (Dec 8, 2016)

Living Fossil said:


> That's why the most important thing is to develop your inner hearing. Once you know what your hearing inside, the questions are solved....



I cannot attest to that if what are you hearing inside is mostly drunken crickets.


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## Morodiene (Dec 8, 2016)

One of the best things for me was whenever I heard a chord progression or harmony that I liked, I'd look up the score to see what the composer did - or if scores aren't available, plunk out the notes on the piano to find out what it was that made it work. Then I'd use it somewhere in my own music.


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## tokatila (Dec 8, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> One of the best things for me was whenever I heard a chord progression or harmony that I liked, I'd look up the score to see what the composer did - or if scores aren't available, plunk out the notes on the piano to find out what it was that made it work. Then I'd use it somewhere in my own music.



I read a study where they were examining top chessplayers. They found that the best players use much more time analyzing games than playing, compared to the lesser players. Maybe there's a lesson somewhere.


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## Morodiene (Dec 8, 2016)

tokatila said:


> I read a study where they were examining top chessplayers. They found that the best players use much more time analyzing games than playing, compared to the lesser players. Maybe there's a lesson somewhere.


Certainly there's no need to reinvent the wheel. Stravinsky said something to the fact that great composers steal!



> I cannot attest to that if what are you hearing inside is mostly drunken crickets.


Well, something must be said for talent. (There! I said the dreaded "T" word!)


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## Puzzlefactory (Dec 8, 2016)

Funnily enough I did that the other day with a piano piece in the "members composition" forum.

I just started playing along while listening to it. I found it surprising how easy I found working out the progression, (although it was in C/Am).


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## Morodiene (Dec 8, 2016)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Funnily enough I did that the other day with a piano piece in the "members composition" forum.
> 
> I just started playing along while listening to it. I found it surprising how easy I found working out the progression, (although it was in C/Am).


Keep doing that as well as improvising at the piano. Even if you're not a pianist it can be very helpful in coming up with ideas as you "listen" for what should come next.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 8, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> But instead of "modulating" with secondary dominant (which is valid, but can be a bit clunky), I prefer to do what J.S. Bach would do. He would change one note that would imply a new key. Some are obvious, but there are a few surprises:
> 
> 2. b7 scale degree = the key of IV (i.e., Bb = F major)
> 
> 4. b3 scale degree = the key of i melodic minor (i.e., Eb = C mel minor)



Hi Morodiene, that's a really good advice. Of course, in Bachs music it's usually a bit trickier, since there is still a lot of the heritage of the "old" keys.

So, b7 in major quite often is used as a "normal" 7th degree in descending lines etc. (it's mixolydian in its origin).
And, the b3 scale degree is mostly used as a way to go to the Dominant region, where it would be still an alteration - the VIb. In most cases it appears in the context of a diminished chord (f#-a-c-eb in Cmaj).
However, there are some (rather rare) cases where he modulates to the minor of the same key; e.g. in the fugue of BWV880.


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## Morodiene (Dec 8, 2016)

Living Fossil said:


> Hi Morodiene, that's a really good advice. Of course, in Bachs music it's usually a bit trickier, since there is still a lot of the heritage of the "old" keys.
> 
> So, b7 in major quite often is used as a "normal" 7th degree in descending lines etc. (it's mixolydian in its origin).
> And, the b3 scale degree is mostly used as a way to go to the Dominant region, where it would be still an alteration - the VIb. In most cases it appears in the context of a diminished chord (f#-a-c-eb in Cmaj).
> However, there are some (rather rare) cases where he modulates to the minor of the same key; e.g. in the fugue of BWV880.


Yes, and certainly nowadays modal shifts can occur quite easily. This is more of a simplified way of adding interest by changing only one note, but one can, of course, change several notes to go to a different "mode". 

Your example of the diminished chord falls into the modulation category which revolves more around chord progressions than it does around a melodic tonal shift. Certainly valid, just a different approach than the Baroque.


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## Puzzlefactory (Dec 8, 2016)

Blimey, most of that went right over my head. You guys certainly know a lot more theory than me.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 8, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> Your example of the diminished chord falls into the modulation category which revolves more around chord progressions than it does around a melodic tonal shift. Certainly valid, just a different approach than the Baroque.



i was refering to the usual way, Bach uses the 3b in his works. That's certainly baroque. 
The 3b without the mentioned harmonic context is really rare in his music.


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## Morodiene (Dec 8, 2016)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Blimey, most of that went right over my head. You guys certainly know a lot more theory than me.


Sorry...geeked out for a moment there!

The best way to understand the heptachord shift is my improvising, probably C major and a minor are the easiest keys to work in to start. I make charts for myself when I'm composing so I know what keys are possible to use in this way (in addition to other methods) - it helps sort out my thoughts though and not get lost.


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## Morodiene (Dec 8, 2016)

Living Fossil said:


> i was refering to the usual way, Bach uses the 3b in his works. That's certainly baroque.
> The 3b without the mentioned harmonic context is really rare in his music.


I know that of course, the fully diminished 7th was used in the Baroque period, but often it was used in a cadenza-like setting, not for a modulation/key change. 



> And, the b3 scale degree is mostly used as a way to go to the Dominant region, where it would be still an alteration - the VIb. In most cases it appears in the context of a diminished chord (f#-a-c-eb in Cmaj).


At the risk of derailing this thread, can you please clarify what you wrote? I get it from a chordal standpoint the F# dim goes to G minor (or Major if you want to be cool). But I don't understand your comment about VIb. Do you mean a flatted 6th scale degree (A-flat) or moving to the key of the flatted 6th (A-flat major)? I don't see how the F3 dim gets either of those.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 8, 2016)

@Morodiene: I'll pm you that...
Eb as the IIIb of C-maj is used as VIb in G-maj.


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## Morodiene (Dec 8, 2016)

Living Fossil said:


> @Morodiene: I'll pm you that...
> Eb as the IIIb of C-maj is used as VIb in G-maj.


OK, thank you!


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## ZeroZero (Dec 9, 2016)

Interesting thread and contributions.

I read that book and it was very clear and well written, far less dry than Piston and friends of.

I just wanted to say that for me the major seventh has a role to play here, when heading for the tonic, it acts a bit like a deceptive cadence. Things get resolved, but with an open question - a bit of lemon juice in the mouth.

Z


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## ZeroZero (Dec 9, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> There is definitely a "pull" towards tonic, especially when preceded by dominant (perfect cadence), but there is also tension that occurs when something other than tonic happens. That delayed gratification is part of what keeps a piece interesting, and knowing when to actually give the audience what they want to hear.
> 
> Here's something else about inversions which are very cool:
> 
> ...



Wow Morodiene, that's an impressively succinct and powerful list. The concept of altering one note to signal another key, so _methodically _explored, has given me lots of different ways to modulate to explore. Thank you.

I've had a long term interest in the classification of dissonances, and that is a lot of good ground covered there!


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## leon chevalier (Dec 9, 2016)

Puzzlefactory said:


> I'm reading a book (Harmony for Computer Musicians) in which the author talks about the most satisfying resolution being the tonic chord.
> 
> However, whenever I write a progression I avoid this, simply because it feels weird for me to end and then start a progression on the same chord. It's like having one sustained note passing over the threshold of the end of one section and the beginning of another.
> 
> ...


personally I end every phrase with a gin tonic, and that solve a lot of problems...
(But It might create some new ones)


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