# Being a composer vs. 9-5 job



## michalioz (May 3, 2021)

I'm a software engineer in the morning and I'm trying to work on my music, practice guitar, piano and music theory in the evening. I would talk specifically for the software engineers since I think there are quite a few in the forum but maybe the same applies to everyone.

I thought that being a software engineer is the second best I can do since I haven't managed to become a full-time composer. Now I realise that maybe I was wrong. It does have lots of good parts but the job also entails trivialities, worst case scenario thinking, pointless meetings, competitive colleagues and politics. All of these put you in a specific mindset which is not quite similar to the composer's mindset. 

It can take a lot of time until I can get into the right mood and state of mind so that I can really feel I am making music. This contributes to feeling tired and thinking that what I am doing is pointless and I'm not progressing much. I have tried working in the weekends only to avoid this abrupt shift everyday but then the time is not enough.

How are you guys switching on and off the trivialities from your morning jobs which can affect your creativity?


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## Gerbil (May 3, 2021)

michalioz said:


> Now I realise that maybe I was wrong. It does have lots of good parts but the job also entails trivialities, worst case scenario thinking, pointless meetings, competitive colleagues and politics.


That...sounds like the music business.


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## sundrowned (May 3, 2021)

I operate fairly strict working hours and stick to them. Even if it annoys others at times.


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## michalioz (May 3, 2021)

sundrowned said:


> I operate fairly strict working hours and stick to them. Even if it annoys others at times.


Do you mean that you make yourself unavailable e.g. daily 6-9pm?


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## sundrowned (May 3, 2021)

michalioz said:


> Do you mean that you make yourself unavailable e.g. daily 6-9pm?


Pretty much. 8-6pm. I'll respond to urgent things if it's a quick message but anything substantial has to wait until the morning.


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## Arbee (May 3, 2021)

Gerbil said:


> That...sounds like the music business.


As someone who has done both, what Gerbil said ^^ - the difference in reality is much smaller than you might imagine as a full time profession. Except perhaps that software engineering fed my family more consistently


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## South Thames (May 3, 2021)

> As someone who has done both, what Gerbil said ^^ - the difference in reality is much smaller than you might imagine as a full time profession. Except perhaps that software engineering fed my family more consistently



I think the poster's question was more about how do you switch gears between one thing and the other consistently, since it's easy to feel drained by the day job, as it were.

But I think even if you're writing music full time this is a problem. Nobody feels like writing music all of the time (and there's always admin and other crap to take care of), and the urge cannot just be conjured. If you have to, you have to, but having to writing music when you don't feel like it isn't an especially great feeling either. There's something to be said for the luxury of not having to.
I always remember Christian Henson saying "I took what I loved to do and made it my job"... or words to that effect.


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## fourier (May 3, 2021)

This was my setup as the pandemic hit. Moving half a meter between work and hobby. I've definitely struggled with both engaging in music after long workdays and equally been severly tempted to call it a day earlier than suitable. Working from office and then having a natural breaks, commuting etc. - albeit time consuming, definitely helped me to be more motivated on both accounts.

A clear contrast is that I do very much enjoy my day job (even today I managed to sneak in references to how the acoustic signature of different string techniques can have similarities with damage and wear-mechanisms on railways when examining measurements - fun!), but I think this is perhaps more a symptom of the current situation. Fatigue is definitely an issue with age, focus and screen time.


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## marclawsonmusic (May 3, 2021)

If you are a programmer, try to work towards being an independent contractor. Then you will have much more control over your schedule. 

Get to a point where you can take off Monday or Friday and dedicate that day to composing - basically, make composing your 'day job' that day. Then carry it through the weekend and you'll have 2-3 solid days of music each week.

Working 'remote' also helps. There is no traffic.

If you can't do this, I would focus on the weekends. During the week, do template stuff, admin, upgrades, anything basically non-creative, but on at least one weekend day, treat it like a job (it is). Wake up early, get to work, and knock off at the end of the day. You will make a lot of progress if you focus on it like a job and not just an hour here or there. This kind of work requires focus and time. You couldn't write an app an hour-at-a-time either, could you? (I know I couldn't)

So, IMHO, the key is big blocks of dedicated time versus nickel-and-diming it.


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## Loïc D (May 3, 2021)

Same but I take half-space with only one desk and a screen switch. (Real-estate is a b*tch in Paris)


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## pmountford (May 3, 2021)

I understand where you're coming from. I find it more challenging switching mindsets within a day from programming to music (and music can be far more engrossing for me so I wouldn't start the day with music ideally) so I prefer to take a daily approach (or weekly) rather than morning/evening so it's easier to switch mindsets. So tomorrow I know I will focus on composing and then (possibly if I can pull myself away from music..) the next day some coding but then the rest of the week back on with music. But that's just the approach which works for me. 

At a slight tangent: I was talking to a fellow artist yesterday and we agreed that when you get to a certain age then you start to pick and chose what you want to do and not just take anything/everything, which again can have an impact on how you schedule your time.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (May 3, 2021)

It's definitely a tough situation to be sure. I'm no engineer (I'd die trying to take a physics class), but as my day job is teaching piano and theory, the goal is to make the transition into full time composing/songwriting/arranging within the next couple of years. Sometimes the day job wears on you, as it can feel mindless or over-exerting, and then you're left with no juice to write. 

That's why I've been trying to cut back on some private lessons, to give myself some more space and time to focus on creating, which is most of our calling cards. Regarding how writing can feel pointless, does it make you happy? I think that if it does, and you feel fulfilled and passionate about it, then it's definitely a hobby to keep, because it does wonders for your creative mind and mental health.


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## gh0stwrit3r (May 3, 2021)

michalioz said:


> How are you guys switching on and off the trivialities from your morning jobs which can affect your creativity?


I've struggled with this for a while. Sometimes ending up in a lot of frustration and the feeling of not going anywhere. Besides a high demanding day job, I also want to spend some quality time with the family and on sports. Leaving me too little time for music.

So slowly I realised that I had to change something. For me that was mostly mentally based (hope this is correct English). It's not about the result, but you have to enjoy the journey. And I do enjoy this journey a lot! Accepting it now that it has its own unique dynamics and pace. Enjoying where I am now and the small things I learn. Doing orchestral sketches of 4 or 8 bars on a daily basis brings a lot of fulfilment too.

Another thing to consider if possible is to start your day with music. Get up early and enjoy free creativity and energy at the beginning of the day.


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## GNP (May 3, 2021)

michalioz said:


> ......the job also entails trivialities, worst case scenario thinking, pointless meetings, competitive colleagues and politics. All of these put you in a specific mindset which is not quite similar to the composer's mindset.


Actually, they all ARE similar to the composer mindset! Especially when you're a working composer!


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## mallux (May 3, 2021)

I'm finding that my precious couple of hours in the evening are a lot more productive if I'm not starting from a totally blank page. During the day I'll use those 5 or 10 minute breaks between zoom calls to come up with an idea or motif, save it in a folder that I laughingly call "the goldmine", and then look forward to fleshing it out later. I might decide later that it's a rubbish idea and end up writing something different, but at least I've started. Like coding, the faster you can get into The Zone, the better!


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## Nimrod7 (May 3, 2021)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Sometimes the day job wears on you, as it can feel mindless or over-exerting, and then you're left with no juice to write.


What Chris said.

I am in software engineering business for many years now. It drained every single piece of juice out of me. Thinking that I will probably need a sabbatical for a couple of years to recover and find myself again.
I don't have any tolerance anymore to deal with politics or other annoying aspects. I just love writing software, but that's rarely the case these days. It's mostly pointless meetings, politics, and a little bit of software development.

For me probably devs that are working solo or in very small groups for their own product have the best time developing, but of course you have the risk of that product to fail, and starve.

For the reasons above there are times I have no energy left to compose anything. I am usually exhausted after work, some times thoughts consuming my mind over the weekend, taking inspiration away.

I honestly believe most jobs have a part of all of the above, including of course being a composer. Larger projects usually gets a more complicated version of those.


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## michalioz (May 3, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> What Chris said.
> 
> I am in software engineering business for many years now. It drained every single piece of juice out of me. Thinking that I will probably need a sabbatical for a couple of years to recover and find myself again.
> I don't have any tolerance anymore to deal with politics or other annoying aspects. I just love writing software, but that's rarely the case these days. It's mostly pointless meetings, politics, and a little bit of software development.


Thanks. Definitely added to what I wanted to express in my original post.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 3, 2021)

Engineer here (power engineer), I think you are just a regular Human...it's normal what you are experiencing. I used to feel like I was missing out on something, but the truth is I'm not. For starters, the odds of you earning a solid income (with benefits and pension) from a musical gig is pretty slim. Possible, but you'd probably have better odds winning the lottery. I fall into the exact same slump you mention. However, I find my creativity kicks into overdrive when I have my next deadline; this could be a live theatre production (which is my first love), film, production album, tv commercial, etc. In my downtime, I'm spending time with new sample libraries and tweaking my studio so I'm ready for whatever's next. The key is to keep that ball rolling and at the same time, finding balance!!


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## ghostnote (May 5, 2021)

Every job you do for somebody else is not beeing self sufficient. That's beeing not free. Free is somebody who makes his living selling a product or service that is without compromise from your side. Trust me, beeing a musician who deals with music supervisors or the gaming industry is not as cool as you might think in terms of expressing your qualities as an artist, unless of course you have a big name attached to your works.

To me beeing free trumps (no pun intended) earning a sh*tload of money. Breaking free, beeing your own boss AND beeing successful is the greatest thing on earth to me. I don't know the situation Thomas is in right now (I hope he does great btw), but he's a great example of living from his music without compromising much of his artistic ego. Chapeau Thomas, that's the way.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 5, 2021)

ghostnote said:


> Every job you do for somebody else is not beeing self sufficient. That's beeing not free. Free is somebody who makes his living selling a product or service that is without compromise from your side. Trust me, beeing a musician who deals with music supervisors or the gaming industry is not as cool as you might think in terms of expressing your qualities as an artist, unless of course you have a big name attached to your works.
> 
> To me beeing free trumps (no pun intended) earning a sh*tload of money. Breaking free, beeing your own boss AND beeing successful is the greatest thing on earth to me. I don't know the situation Thomas is in right now (I hope he does great btw), but he's a great example of living from his music without compromising much of his artistic ego. Chapeau Thomas, that's the way.


Definitely the pipe dream of most musicians. We should always strive to get to that pinnacle...but if it doesn't play out, you have the satisfaction of knowing you gave it your best shot (and hopefully had a fun ride!).


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## mscp (May 5, 2021)

michalioz said:


> It does have lots of good parts but the job also entails trivialities, worst case scenario thinking, pointless meetings, competitive colleagues and politics.


You've just described a great chunk of a composer's job. 

Not sure if what I'm about to write is trivial but:

1. dealing with trivialities -- not sure in what respect you mean by it...did you mean part of the job is kind of "ridiculous" and "pointless" to a point you're wondering why you're even there?

2. "worst case scenario thinking" - I think this is a basic requirement to keep anyone's work in check. I kind of like it.

3. "pointless meetings" -- it happens. no solution there.

4. "competitive colleagues" -- just focus on your work...and embrace what you're doing. 

5. "politics" -- are you a single child? if not, you may know you can't escape from it.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 5, 2021)

Phil81 said:


> You've just described a great chunk of a composer's job.
> 
> Not sure if what I'm about to write is trivial but:
> 
> ...


Good points. I mean really, if those 5 items are making your life miserable, maybe becoming a working composer isn't a viable choice; they all come with the territory. The key is learning to deal with these effectively and putting it all into perspective. And if you don't have a thick skin, you definitely won't get too far.


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## mscp (May 5, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Good points. I mean really, if those 5 items are making your life miserable, maybe becoming a working composer isn't a viable choice; they all come with the territory. The key is learning to deal with these effectively and putting it all into perspective. And if you don't have a thick skin, you definitely won't get too far.


this x 1000.


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## José Herring (May 5, 2021)

Not a software engineer but thought I'd chime in. 

Had a teacher once tell me that you need to have a stable base if you're going to be a freelance musician. In my young hubris I thought that was the worst advice ever. After years of being a "full" time freelancer I can say that there is no such thing. Unless you are very fortunate either by having an insane amount of talent or luck or both nobody that does music is really "full time". The only "full time" is in hustling more work when you don't have any. 

I'm now considering for the first time in my life actually taking a job for stability be it teaching or whatever and doing music nights and weekends. Not sure that I will be able to wake up in time to keep a 9-5 though.


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## Rasoul Morteza (May 5, 2021)

I used to work as an engineer (acoustics, environmental) until about a year and half ago. I don't know how old you are but I'm still under 30 and the fact that I was better at music with no education than in my official job holding a master's degree, made me quit and focus on music 100%. I know this doesn't apply to your situation, but nobody's case will. Based on my own experiment, spreading yourself thin doesn't result in satisfaction.

High risk, high reward, higher loss. That's my mentality, but everyone has their own. Try to generate passive income through investment for the winter. Understand why people get paid in this field, to adapt your skillset accordingly, and therefore minimizing risk. It's a mixture of artistry, social skills, economic know-how and psychology that's going to get you through this field. And of course, perseverance.

But treat it like an art and not a business and that will reward you handsomely  of course, as long as you understand what's going on. Hope that helps...


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## michalioz (May 7, 2021)

Really helpful getting to know a bit about how you go about similar situations! Flirting particularly with the freelancing idea.

It's quite interesting that you find all these aspects in the composers' lives and it occurred to me as well to be honest. Working in an open-plan office for a soulless bank or from your home studio for some media company can be a very different experience though.

I love music for the creativity, innovation and fresh air that come with it. If for any reason becomes bureaucratic, corporate, unidimensional, I'm always good keeping just the good parts  This post was mostly about how to shift from the corporate to the creative mindset and how to not let the former occupy most of my waking hours.


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## mopsiflopsi (May 7, 2021)

I've done a number of career path changes over the last 20 years, from software to environmental engineering to sales and marketing, before I settled on my current full time career in a creative field. Prior to that I remember thinking how dry my work was, similar to how the OP described their situation. Pointless meetings, business goals, spreadsheets, office politics, etc. I remember really longing for something more creative and whimsical and fun. So I went into video games! Guess what I found. Pointless meetings, business goals, spreadsheets, studio politics.

Romanticizing creative work does some disservice to aspiring creatives, setting a lot of them up for a rude awakening later. Unless you're working for yourself, and creating just for the sake of creating, you're never truly free. I think what's really holding us back is this economic paradigm that says what you're creating is of no value unless it can be monetized, therefore passion must be turned into a career, inspiration must be turned into discipline, and your brilliant mind must be turned into a machine that can switch gears as needed to use whatever meager hours are left in the day optimally. 

Realizing this, my current goal is not to be in this full time career or that, but to be full time financially secure so I can work on whatever the heck I want in whatever field I want. It feels like digging an escape tunnel with a teaspoon sometimes, but I hope the pay-off will be worth it (really hoping the tunnel does not collapse on me!).


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## osterdamus (Jul 4, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> What Chris said.
> 
> I am in software engineering business for many years now. It drained every single piece of juice out of me. Thinking that I will probably need a sabbatical for a couple of years to recover and find myself again.
> I don't have any tolerance anymore to deal with politics or other annoying aspects. I just love writing software, but that's rarely the case these days. It's mostly pointless meetings, politics, and a little bit of software development.
> ...


I feel you... 23 years in the industry here, I chose the business owner / freelancer path a long time ago, because while the will still be a lot of meetings and politics, at least I would have greater influence on the projects and was give good and frank (but still diplomatically delivered) advice, and would be able to shake off any negative experiences. I hope things will turn better for you.


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## TomislavEP (Jul 4, 2021)

I'm formally educated in law and IT fields, but making the ends meet only with music for many years now. I'm often struggling financially, but I would never give up trying to make my life's passion (music) being its centerpiece. As a consequence, I never really had a typical full-time day job, despite the number of uncertainties that this brings.

I'm yet to start capitalizing on my work as a composer and producer more seriously, but I have somewhat managed to get by working as a pro musician, both for live and studio work as well as by teaching and education. I also have some knowledge in photography and graphic design, so I'm hoping for every chance to stay within creative domains.


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