# Modular Synths and the hype...



## gsilbers (Aug 18, 2017)

More of a debate thread but I might be the only one not seeing any benefits in owning a modular rig mainly due for the price vs performance ratio. I find it extremely expensive to own a mudular synth (components) for what you can get out of it...and that you could/might come up with regular/other analog synths and some step sequencers...




just for background... i did the synthesis program at berklee a while back and used the nord modular which i found cool and learned a lot. but after more than 10 years not dwelling in modular stuff i now see a bunch of poeple using it and seems to be the cool thing to have. yet... everything i "hear" as suppose to what i "see" seems to be on the mediocre side... or at least something i "think" can be done with analog synths like for example maybe 3 roland SE-02 and a couple of arturia keysteps :-/

maybe its just me and im crazy.. or not seeing something?! any good videos out there on this stuff?
I try to remain open minded on everything... but i am not seeing a positive side to modular synths besides the eye candy factor.


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## Saxer (Aug 18, 2017)

Boys toys. Either you really have fun with it or you don't. I tend to love useless things (and people around here spend most of their life with more or less useless stuff). And I like hardware synths too. But modular synths doesn't really touch me. A lot of 'see what happens' and less 'this sounds great' for my taste. I never found a single example for 'this is great music and sounds incredible because they used a modular synth'.
But I can understand the hype. Looks great. Fun stuff to play with. Steam engine. Electric toy train. Home workbench. Fishing tackle. All in one!


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## charlieclouser (Aug 19, 2017)

I've had various flavors of modulars over the past 30 years. Spent way too much time on the Arp 2500 in college 1981-1985, then got a Moog System 15 in 1987 (still have it), used the Nord Modular pretty heavily in my years with NIN in the late 1990's, and got into EuroRack pretty heavily ten or so years ago (1344 hp worth of modules at the moment - oof).

It is a time suck for sure. Three hours later: "Whatcha got?" uhhh.... "I got this: *plays 16th note pattern that sounds semi-interesting*"

If you are into serious sound mangling, EuroRack has got the tools for sure - if you've got the time and patience. Sample player modules that let you arbitrarily scroll through and granulate audio, etc. I got into EuroRack because I wanted voltage-controllable envelope generators, multiple clock-synced LFOs (like eight or more at once), cascading clock dividers for math-rhythm type stuff, etc. Plus I was bored. I still use the stuff now and again but usually at the start of a project when I can record for an hour into a skeleton of a cue and then chop up the results to be deployed throughout a score by manipulating the recordings in Ableton Live - and only if the schedule permits, which is rare.

If you want to hear some actually good and possibly useful stuff done on modular, check out Lyonel Bauchet's stuff that he does on the Buchla rigs. Definitely not an economical solution since the Buchla stuff is about as expensive as it gets, but Lyonel's stuff could actually work in a scoring scenario, and is most definitely not the usual "bug farts and bongos" that you hear on 80% of modular videos on YouTube. No idea how much time he puts into his tracks, but I have some idea of the money he's spent and it's... substantial.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Aug 19, 2017)

Love to sit down and learn about T.O.N.T.O. at Calgary when the museum opens. Polyphony modular in 1970 is up there with the 1970 Dodge Challenger Hemi. Way fun stuff.


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## mouse (Aug 19, 2017)

Glad it's not just me! I think the junkie xl video has been the most interesting for me in terms of what's possible with modular synths but it still seems like the cost to usefulness ratio is just way too high for what you can get from them.


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## thereus (Aug 19, 2017)

I know a guy who is teaching himself COBOL for fun.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 19, 2017)

And all that noise, they call it music? Get off my lawn, with your little cables! 

Modular is underrated, so much fun, so many possibilities, days of fun.


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## IFM (Aug 19, 2017)

Thank you for starting this thread. I was into modular for a while but it didn't scratch that itch for me much. It was cool to look at but meh. I am in the Eurorack group on FB and all I see are massive rigs making fart noises. Zzzz. The other side was so far a lot of what I hear (and someone else brought this up to me) is very thin. However I had a Mother 32 and that sounded great...will get one again.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 19, 2017)

Everyone's experience will vary, but in my experience, the fun is really in making/exploring patches. Hours will fly by, maybe nothing will be recorded, but man, I will have had a blast, and will truly enjoy pulling out all cables to start fresh next time, tabula rasa.


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## JPQ (Aug 19, 2017)

I thinked small modular setup but when i remember its price makes me think is there any nice sounding small analog synths what i buy instead with same price. and i say yes. i dont have room big modular or big analog. generally modern cheap analog sounds best solution i allready have one but if something different sounding. and i really love patch memory thing. I not fully still sure what route i go with music i want do many different things money income limits i must very likely foucus more one thing in music side.


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## JPQ (Aug 19, 2017)

This video sounds nice but some videos sound plain ugly to my ears.


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## jononotbono (Aug 19, 2017)

I would love to get into this world at some point but finances stop me at the minute so I'm trying to become good with Soft Synths at the minute and having a blast trying to figure it al out. I think any piece of Hardware that will separate you from what everybody uses in the box is a great thing. Looks really creative too! Next year I will start small and buy the Behringher Deepmind 12 as my first Hardware synth. I know, Baby steps and light years from Modular stuff but it will be a start!


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## synthpunk (Aug 19, 2017)

Some people like changing the oil in their automobile or doing repairs to the engine other people like turning knobs and plugging in cables and experimentation along with extreme sound design. 

Others don't have the time for it and drop the car off at the mechanic or use presets. Whatever floats your boat, life is short. Find something you're passionate about whether it be cars or modular synthesis, and sound design and have fun with it that's what it's all about.

Of course modular synthesis does get a bad name by the large amount of not very tastefully done bug music as I call it that is out there. Then you hear something like the brilliant Venetian Snares or Trent Reznor and see what some of the possibilities are. Then there was the geeky film I Dream of Wires that in my opinion was not a very good promotion of the musicality of the subject either.

My best advice if it is something that interests you and you want to give a try is the start small or with something already put together like the Kilpatrick Phenol that you can learn on.
http://www.kilpatrickaudio.com/?p=phenol


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## dgburns (Aug 19, 2017)

charlieclouser said:


> bug farts and bongos



Bug farts and bongos there are aplenty. But knobs are just plain old fun. Feels like you're doing something, even if your not.
As an aside, I thought the sub37 was going to be a time waster, but it turned out to be strangely efficient at getting me "that sound in my head" that I was searching for rather quickly. And once I got there, I never looked back, I just executed and printed the audio and moved on. Who knew.

I suspect while full blown modulars would require a bit more commitment, there's going to be a great return on your time investment. Mostly it's like an anti-commercial library "we all use the same patches" remedy. And mostly in how it changes your mindset in how you approach creating sound. You go from following the herd to exploring your own path. Tools like that need to be celebrated imho.
I have not yet bonded with the Arturia matrixbrute (did not buy yet) , but I suspect it would be a good step in that direction all in one box...


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## karelpsota (Aug 19, 2017)

Great wall decoration. Very good to impress directors when they come in.


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## thereus (Aug 19, 2017)

So is it worth practicing with Bazille first?


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## gsilbers (Aug 19, 2017)

interesting. ill check some references out.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Aug 19, 2017)

Had a little improvisation this afternoon, and I'm glad to announce its codename is "Bug farts and bongos".

Thank you for that, @charlieclouser .


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## JPQ (Aug 19, 2017)

Now i think even more my music budget seems my future is very likely more software. I understanded better few things what i need what are non music related at all. ps. just buyed cheap active monitors beouse my current ones have problems.(they dont sound pair and one input is broken)


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## synthpunk (Aug 19, 2017)

Well there is always Aalto, Bazille, Reaktor, and Softube Modular 



JPQ said:


> Now i think even more my music budget seems my future is very likely more software.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 20, 2017)

karelpsota said:


> Great wall decoration. Very good to impress directors when they come in.


Directors don't visit anymore. Haven't in over 10 years, me thinks. It's all done via email, phone, skype.


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## JPQ (Aug 20, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Well there is always Aalto, Bazille, Reaktor, and Softube Modular




I allready Bazille lite version,Aalto Computer music version and Reaktor. and soon i can i upgrade my komplete to upgrade reaktor. and Blue 2 is also super flexible. Next synth what i buy for synth is maybe or maybe not Softube modular. but i need more powerul computer use it goodways but is totally different sounding anything else what i now use.


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## JPQ (Aug 20, 2017)

Aalto has somethin sameway raw what i hear in blue 2. i feel softube stuff sounds soft sameway what i some old analogs (and like Jupiter 8 clone and i mean analog one biggest difference i think is its polyphony which is only 4 notes) what i played few synth related events here in Finland.


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## synthpunk (Aug 20, 2017)

Don't underestimate how cool, fun, and good the Nord modular series is as well although I still prefer the mk1 over the mk2.



JPQ said:


> I allready Bazille lite version,Aalto Computer music version and Reaktor. and soon i can i upgrade my komplete to upgrade reaktor. and Blue 2 is also super flexible. Next synth what i buy for synth is maybe or maybe not Softube modular. but i need more powerul computer use it goodways but is totally different sounding anything else what i now use.


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## synthpunk (Aug 20, 2017)

Aalto has a certain West Coast modular IE Buchla vibe and can come up with some very interesting textures, Kaivo is a different beast but also very cool.

I've only worked with a Softtube modular demo so far but I think they need to add more modules before it can become more relevant.

The Jupiter 8 could do 8 voices in single mode and four voices in dual mode. The Jupiter 4 can do four voices. The Jupiter 8 has an incredible sweet spot of musicality it reminds one back of the Glory Days of analog synth design.



JPQ said:


> Aalto has somethin sameway raw what i hear in blue 2. i feel softube stuff sounds soft sameway what i some old analogs (and like Jupiter 8 clone and i mean analog one biggest difference i think is its polyphony which is only 4 notes) what i played few synth related events here in Finland.


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## JPQ (Aug 20, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Aalto has a certain West Coast modular IE Buchla vibe and can come up with some very interesting textures, Kaivo is a different beast but also very cool.
> 
> I've only worked with a Softtube modular demo so far but I think they need to add more modules before it can become more relevant.
> 
> The Jupiter 8 could do 8 voices in single mode and four voices in dual mode. The Jupiter 4 can do four voices. The Jupiter 8 has an incredible sweet spot of musicality it reminds one back of the Glory Days of analog synth design.


I sayed Jupiter 8 clone not Jupiter 8 i forgotted test real one (clone has only 4) but i tested Jupiter 8 bontique version what i dont liked. i talk machine who one single person build itself. and i also played Jupiter 4 funny thing i prefer it more.


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## JPQ (Aug 20, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Don't underestimate how cool, fun, and good the Nord modular series is as well although I still prefer the Mark 1 over the mountain 2.



Indeed many synths sound cool and fun etc.


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## givemenoughrope (Aug 20, 2017)

My main criteria for hardware synths are 1)saves patches, B) comprehensive CC control from the DAW, IV) portable, R) inexpensive...oh and *) mod matrix is plentiful and easy to get around. Also, just that the basic sound of the oscillators are a balanced diet. (ie. I'm selling my Mopho keyboard/Tetra bc I just don't need five voices of that sound.)

So far I have and am pretty happy with:
Moog Minitaur (huge tone, I run my Univox Minikorg through it)
Novation Bass Station II
DSI Mopho
DSI Evolver (I run the right audio out into the BSII for more filter and distortion options)
Waldorf Pulse 2
Mutable Instruments Ambika (I mostly use it as 6 monosynths for choral-type writing now)
DSI Prophet 12 (huge thick pads and great arps)

I also use cableguys Midishaper to add envelopes and LFOs to CCs.

I have Zebra and Diva and granulars through Zebrify to fill in the gaps or vice versa.

There are some great GREAT modules out there from Mutable and Make Noise, etc. but I'm good for now. Every once in a while I'll go up to Perfect Circuit in Burbank and lose my mind but I am holding off on the modular rabbit hole as long as possible.


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## gsilbers (Aug 20, 2017)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Directors don't visit anymore. Haven't in over 10 years, me thinks. It's all done via email, phone, skype.



Sometimes they do in santa monica/venice area. I think...


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## gsilbers (Aug 20, 2017)

I like the Metasonix stuff and see they do some euro rack modules which might be interesting. 

There is some pre made systems 
http://www.makenoisemusic.com/synthesizers/shared-system


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## Living Fossil (Aug 21, 2017)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Directors don't visit anymore. Haven't in over 10 years, me thinks. It's all done via email, phone, skype.



I guess this depends.
I quite usually have meetings with directors in my studio. It has a different quality discussing things and listening to tracks while being in the same place.


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## Living Fossil (Aug 21, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> I would love to get into this world at some point but finances stop me at the minute so I'm trying to become good with Soft Synths at the minute and having a blast trying to figure it al out.



I think Reaktor Blocks is the perfect starting point. With those hundreds of downloadable ensembles it also gives an insight into the mechanisms, how addiction works. It triggers some kind of collecting urge.


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## jononotbono (Aug 21, 2017)

Living Fossil said:


> It triggers some kind of collecting urge.



That urge is already in full swing! It's deadly! Haha!


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## Greg (Aug 29, 2017)

For me what I love the most about modular is that each one is a completely new instrument. Thats incredibly inspiring. It's very rewarding creatively and I am always surprised with the results. Writing them off as expensive & trendy wall candy is just a failure to comprehend what's possible with them. There are thousands of musicians out there using modulars for amazing music and unique sounds. My fave right now is Colin Benders: 

Honestly even if I don't get results that are usable in a cue or project, I still love it because it's just so damn fun to play. Which is a feeling that I often forget while working on projects and striving for productivity or a paycheck.

If you're the type of composer that's totally cool with throwing some omnisphere presets under your cues and calling it "hybrid" then yeah, modular isn't for you.


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## Fab (Aug 29, 2017)

Greg said:


>





ha, that was pretty cool


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## synthpunk (Aug 29, 2017)

I ran sound for a M83 gig once they had a modular on stage but it wasn't plugged in and 80% of the show was on background. Usually an artist will come and say thank you after a gig, they went straight to the bus and we were glad


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