# Have you switched to Studio One?



## jon wayne (Apr 23, 2020)

Seriously considering Studio One. I started with Cubase, then Logic Pro. Anything missing in SO that you miss?


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## MisteR (Apr 23, 2020)

My CPU.

Although it’s a lot better than it used to be. I’m on a Mac.


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## MisteR (Apr 23, 2020)

That being said the workflow is the absolute best. If I need to get an idea down quickly, the time from application launch to recording is lightning fast. The FX/instrument browser system with drag and drop is the best.

Cubase is my main daw but I can make a hot drink after executing any command.

But processor intensive stuff is no good in Studio One. It just sputters on my quad core i7 with 32gb ram. I hope that by Studio One 7 it will be my only DAW. No joke.


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## jbuhler (Apr 23, 2020)

jon wayne said:


> Seriously considering Studio One. I started with Cubase, then Logic Pro. Anything missing in SO that you miss?


I use both Logic and S1. I used to mostly use S1 but these days I mostly use Logic. The lack of articulation sets is a pain. I find that S1 doesn’t work well for me as track counts get high though others report better success. I also find S1 gets unstable as projects get long. One of my favorite features, the scratch pad, frequently corrupts when I create lots of different ones for the same project. The manual is not good and some of S1’s features are not very intuitive so it is often hard to figure out how to do something. But overall I like it a lot and I still prefer it for small track count projects.


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## Noeticus (Apr 23, 2020)

Yes, I switched from Cubase after Cubase required Aero theme to be enabled in Windows 7.

Studio One is awesome!


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## devonmyles (Apr 23, 2020)

Studio One for small projects and Nuendo 10 for large projects and any sound design/post to video work.


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## wst3 (Apr 23, 2020)

Until Studio One v4 I'd guess that about 3/4 of my music projects were done in Sonar, and all my sound design projects were done in Wavelab. In fairness, I've been using Sonar since it was called Cakewalk Pro Audio, so I am very familiar with it. And Wavelab since V2.

I am slowly but surely migrating everything to Studio One. In fact I am about to start a project where I migrate several tracks from completed Sonar projects to Studio One. Kind of an acid test to see if I can do without Sonar.

Why change? The workflow is fast, smooth, and (mostly) intuitive. I recently sat down with the Groove3 classes again and picked up even more neat tricks, so I'm pretty sure I will make switch over for all new projects.

Why not change?

The CPU hit described above is real, but I can mitigate that with a VEPro server, I think.
Multi-output instrument tracks are better, but still not entirely intuitive.
Limited support for Platform M, which I had hoped would be my main fader box. Oddly my ancient StudioMix is supported, so there may just be something I am doing wrong. I can even use my Kore2 as a general purpose knob box.

Assuming I can iron these things out Studio One may become my primary DAW for music production.

For sound design it is a little trickier, but I am finding ways to do everything I do in Wavelab, it just takes time, and I haven't had a sound design project recently, so I have not devoted the time.

Studio One will continue to mature. Things I'd love to see include

some form of articulation management akin to tools in Logic or Cubase
better support for non-Presonus hardware
better (easier) support for multi-output plugins
But maybe I am greedy???


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## muziksculp (Apr 23, 2020)

I switched from Cubase Pro around two years ago, I love using Studio One Pro 4 the workflow is the best, it has been improving in terms of features with every small update, it's the only DAW I use now, and I'm looking forward to Studio One Pro 5


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## Jackdaw (Apr 23, 2020)

I switched just last week from FLStudio for the sole reason that workflow is just sooo much smoother especially for orchestral music.


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## robgb (Apr 23, 2020)

Studio One is a great DAW. I used it exclusively for a few years. Before that I used Logic and before that I used Nuendo (aka Cubase on steroids), and before that I used Sonar. They're all great DAWs.

I now use Reaper.


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## Minko (Apr 23, 2020)

I like it a lot. Some midi CC stuff does not work like I want. (I use VePro). Working on it with PreSonus to get it integrated better.

Also no articulation maps. Hear that as a point from a lot of other S1 composers. Not me though I don’t use them.

I really like the zero latency instrument option. Sometimes it is not working exactly how I want. 

Why don’t you test it for 30 days to see if you can work with it? That is what I did. Made a list of specs. Than tested all the daws I could get my hands on. 

I mis clip gain the way protools did it and the manual is not as detailed as it could be. But most of it is really intuitive.


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## easyrider (Apr 23, 2020)

Its a shame S1 can't do the same as Cubase for multiple instances Kontakt running in one Kontakt and they appear in your mixer

In Cubase you can far easier

I have both


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## GtrString (Apr 23, 2020)

I switched from Ableton to Studio One and have never looked back. I just like it, and the free updates are great. I was never an electronica producer anyway, so I dont know why I started out with Ableton. 

In Studio One now I could wish for better cpu management as others have stated, and also some sort of articulation mapping with vi's. 

I have considered trying out cubase and logic a little, but I work 50/50 with audio and midi, so i can't do without the audio tools in Studio One.


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## muziksculp (Apr 23, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Its a shame S1 can't do the same as Cubase for multiple instances Kontakt running in one Kontakt and they appear in your mixer
> 
> In Cubase you can far easier
> 
> I have both



Sorry, but what do you mean by " multiple instances Kontakt running in one Kontakt " ?


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## muziksculp (Apr 23, 2020)

Studio One Pro 4 also has the Multi-Instruments feature, which Cubase does not offer.


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## JPQ (Apr 23, 2020)

Yes form Logic becouse i dont have anymore money suitable Apple computer. and to my eyes thos gio os easoer exåect womdpws menu font is bit hard in 2560x1440 32" inch dispaly i think.


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## greentuga (Apr 23, 2020)

I’m considering migrate to S1, but I’m used to logic shortcuts to do my midi stuff...
I use Logic (for áudio) since v2


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## easyrider (Apr 23, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Sorry, but what do you mean by " multiple instances Kontakt running in one Kontakt " ?




See here






How do you order your orchestral tracks in your DAW?


I have a master-trmplate with about 700 disabled-tracks, sorted in folders and subfolders (based on instrument-category / library). Keep in mind that these files get pretty big (in my case about 400 MB), so you probably don‘t want to start with that for every project (even when all tracks are...




vi-control.net


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## maestro2be (Apr 23, 2020)

I switched from Cubase many years ago (version 6) to Studio One v2. It's come a long ways. There is no doubt for me that when you put the two of them side by side Cubase/Nuendo seem overwhelming compared to S1 in my opinion. In a messy not so good kind of way. It's clunky to get around Cubase to me. S1 is lightning fast for getting from blank project to making music. I still own Cubase and always upgrade it but each time I open it up, it looks so crammed with unnecessary stuff for my purposes that it just sends me running right back to S1.

My orchestral scores are getting so large that Nuendo crossgrade from Cubase is enticing. Mostly because it supports so many surround sound channels. I can run multi-channel plugins like SPATv3 in Nuendo and have access to all 16 input channels on a single FX channel. The only other DAW that could do that for me was Reaper. This one feature alone is tempting me because it's very CPU intensive running a stereo SPAT plugin on every instrument track vs having an FX channel with 16 inputs (I can get an entire section in that one instance). The problem during testing has been the performance is much worse than in Studio One.

I know people say things about Studio One CPU but I am able to run more tracks in Studio One than I can in Cubase or Nuendo on the same brand new 32-core machine hands down. Nuendo and Cubase crackle and pop and hit the maximum "real-time load capacity" before Studio One ever does. And ASIO Guard absolutely seems like an atrocity more than a helpful feature. It is probably just me which is fine, but enabling that feature just destroys all possibilities of it playing back without issues and complete lockup level stuttering. I spent 2 days taking a blank project file in Nuendo, adding 320 instrument tracks and playing them back at the same time with recorded notes in each of them. With ASIO Guard on, it would literally just stop dead in it's tracks, count to 5, move to the next note and repeat this. I turn off ASIO Guard and it immediately played it back. I then tried 10 tracks only on a brand new project, complete lockup stuttering with ASIO Guard on. The "real-time" processing load inside of Nuendo craps out so quickly and crackles it's sort of embarrassing.

In Studio I created the exact setup of 320 instrument tracks, same recorded notes and play them back with zero stuttering or playback issues. CPU never goes above 14%. Today I plan to do 720 tracks.

The real problem begins when I use SPATv3 in Studio One. If I put one on all tracks the CPU goes to about 54% at idle. However, it plays back perfectly which is astonishing. In Nuendo, I only needed 1 instance of SPATv3 for every 10 instrument tracks reducing it to 32 instances vs 320. The CPU difference is Nuendo runs at 17% CPU at idle which seems promising. Yet, it cannot even dream of playing back that audio. It immediately hits 100% CPU and locks up everything upon hitting the play button. So not everyone has the same results for sure. Studio One destroys Cubase 10.5 and Nuendo 10 on my brand new AMD 32-core Windows 10 machine.

In my opinion, just for me Studio One really needs 3 things to finish making me happier than it's made me today:

1. Surround Sound Support (16+ channels minimum)
2. Articulation Management System
3. Better Color Palette

M


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## DS_Joost (Apr 24, 2020)

Well, it's almost May and Studio One users know what time that is...😉


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## muziksculp (Apr 24, 2020)

Another great option for Studio One Pro users is the great integration with their FaderPort 8/16 .

Check this video released today :


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## jon wayne (Apr 24, 2020)

As one considering switching to S 1, do you mean free update?


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## Jackdaw (Apr 24, 2020)

Tl;dr


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## jon wayne (Apr 24, 2020)

Jackdaw said:


> Tl;dr


Whaaa?


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## paulmatthew (Apr 24, 2020)

Number 1 and 2 on their most requested features now is Articulation Editor and smart tool for midi. Presonus tries to tackle the top requested features if possible for their updates. I would think if they go ahead with this , new midi features and tools will be the main focus of the the next upgrade. The request forum is for this can be found here : https://answers.presonus.com/questions/studio-one-feature-requests?sort=votes


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## JPQ (Apr 24, 2020)

I have problems now my rent to own paying dont work and very likely becouse of this i cannot use it even now. is hard wait at least monday get help to solving thing.
Ps. colour palette problem is indedeed Studio One. i what fully change all.


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## Jackdaw (Apr 25, 2020)

jon wayne said:


> Whaaa?


Sorry, too many beers on friday, I was referring to a very long post above. Apologies :/


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## samphony (Apr 25, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> Well, it's almost May and Studio One users know what time that is...😉


Yes, that June comes next


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## jon wayne (Apr 25, 2020)

samphony said:


> Yes, that June comes next


I guess the big question for me is, if I buy now, will I be paying for an update soon?


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## Slavomir (Apr 30, 2020)

I use Cubase, StudioOne, PT and Samplitude and I must admit Studio One has the best workflow. I like drag and drop functionality a lot, exporting audio / midi clips in the browser - awesome! It's a pity that these programmers who create Studio One left Steinberg. Would like to see all these S1 features in Cubase.


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## Lukas (Jun 29, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Its a shame S1 can't do the same as Cubase for multiple instances Kontakt running in one Kontakt and they appear in your mixer
> 
> In Cubase you can far easier


That's not true actually. The Studio One way to do this is technically the same as in Cubase but more flexible.

- Add your output channels for KONTAKT in the instrument window
- Assign your tracks to channels via the inspector. That's necessary as the DAW can't know which MIDI CH is routed to which instrument output.

It's as simple as that 

But as far as I know, even Native Instruments recommends to use multiple KONTAKT instances rather than one instance with 16 instruments. The routing as well as removing single instruments is easier too.

But there are reasons for both ways. Fortunately both work


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## easyrider (Jun 30, 2020)

Lukas said:


> That's not true actually. The Studio One way to do this is technically the same as in Cubase but more flexible.
> 
> - Add your output channels for KONTAKT in the instrument window
> - Assign your tracks to channels via the inspector. That's necessary as the DAW can't know which MIDI CH is routed to which instrument output.
> ...




I'll check it out cheers


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## Phillip Dixon (Jul 2, 2020)

.


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## muziksculp (Jul 2, 2020)

We might finally get to meet Studio One Pro 5 on July 7th, 2020


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## Jackdaw (Jul 2, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> We might finally get to meet Studio One Pro 5 on July 7th, 2020



Where did you get this info/rumor ?

EDIT: Ah, it's mentioned in that video? Didn't watch it yet


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## Mucusman (Jul 2, 2020)

I could be totally off base, but I wonder if it isn't a Presonus branded keyboard controller... perhaps with integration with Studio One 5. This was one of the more enjoyable teasers I've seen; well done, Presonus. Not getting my hopes up for anything, though, as some of Presonus' media efforts have over-promised in the past.


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## Robert Kooijman (Jul 3, 2020)

Long time Cubase user here, switched to Studio One as it offers an IMO more intuitive workflow & GUI.


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## Will Wilson (Jul 3, 2020)

I used Studio One v2 all the way up to v4 when I was on PC (I got a NFR copy of v2 so was cheap to upgrade as new versions came out). For audio stuff it's great but as started to do more and more complicated and detailed things with Midi it started to get frustrating (Kontakt hated it and every-time I wanted to exit S1 I would have to force quit).

When I went back to a Mac I stopped using it all together in favour of LPX.


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## muziksculp (Jul 3, 2020)




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## Lukas (Jul 4, 2020)

Will Wilson said:


> For audio stuff it's great but as started to do more and more complicated and detailed things with Midi it started to get frustrating (Kontakt hated it and every-time I wanted to exit S1 I would have to force quit).


I am not aware that Kontakt hates Studio One. That must be something very specific to your system. Kontakt is my most used instrument in Studio on both Windows and Mac and I never had any issues or heard about anything like that.


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## rrichard63 (Jul 4, 2020)

Lukas said:


> I am not aware that Kontakt hates Studio One. That must be something very specific to your system. Kontakt is my most used instrument in Studio on both Windows and Mac and I never had any issues or heard about anything like that.


It's not just @Will Wilson. I have the same issue, except that Studio One almost always crashes after I exit the program. Kontakt doesn't have to be open to make this happen. In other threads, at least one VI-Controller has said that this issue has been reported to Presonus but never solved.


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## Lukas (Jul 4, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> I have the same issue, except that Studio One almost always crashes after I exit the program


Okay then it's most likely not related to Kontakt at all. But difficult to say without further details.

If there are 3rd party plugins involved which cause problems when being unloaded then it's not PreSonus' job to fix them. Does the crash on exit also happen if no 3rd-party plugins are used in the song?


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## jbuhler (Jul 4, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> It's not just @Wil Wilson. I have the same issue, except that Studio One almost always crashes after I exit the program. Kontakt doesn't have to be open to make this happen. In other threads, at least one VI-Controller has said that this issue has been reported to Presonus but never solved.


I’ve reported the problem to presonus at least 3 times and the issue dates back to at least early in Studio One 3. It might have already been the case in SO2. In any case I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve been able to successfully close a Studio One project that had Kontakt in it without it hanging and requiring a force quit. And yes it is only a minor inconvenience in the sense that the project saves properly and all. I’ve just come to accept that force quit is the normal way you close Studio One...


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## Lukas (Jul 4, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I’ve reported the problem to press us at least 3 times


Who did you report the problem to? Native Instruments or PreSonus? And are you all on Mac?


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## jbuhler (Jul 4, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Who did you report the problem to? Native Instruments or PreSonus?


Presonus. I gave up long ago when presonus support ran out of suggestions and was basically: live with force quitting since it’s not really affecting anything. I guess the last time I contacted them was shortly after SO4 came out and the problem still wasn’t fixed. 

I think it was you who at one point on one of these threads said it was a Kontakt issue even though none of the other DAWs exhibit the issue. Whatever the case it’s clearly not high on presonus’s priority list of things to fix. Which is fine. I mean, I’d really much rather they spent their time developing their version of expression maps or articulation sets.


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## Lukas (Jul 4, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I think it was you who at one point on one of these threads said it was a Kontakt issue even though none of the other DAWs exhibit the issue.


Yeah I can remember that. You can't say it for certain unless you've debugged it but it's true that appearing only in Studio One doesn't mean that it's a Studio One problem. And of course, if PreSonus can't reproduce the issue, it's obvious why nobody couldn't say something meaningful about the cause.

I'm wondering if all users that have this issue are on Mac..... or if this happens on Windows too.


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## rrichard63 (Jul 4, 2020)

Lukas said:


> I'm wondering if all users that have this issue are on Mac..... or if this happens on Windows too.


Windows 7 here.


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## ynwtf (Jul 4, 2020)

Windows10 user here with SO4. I was pretty much neck deep into presonus with the StudioLive Series III board before getting caught up in this VI world so I may be kinda screwed if I have to start over.

I have experienced a few crashes since but they're not frequent IMO, and the backup control has kept my files up to date so I haven't stressed much about it.

I'm not too happy with their support though. I have another thread here describing static when switching my mixer's sample rate. The tech responding didn't appear to ever read my comments and the steps taken before submitting a ticket, as most of his suggestions were already outlined in my initial submission. I tried to offer as much info as I could but that never created dialogue. Instead, it read mostly as a generic script of replies like you get from tech support. "Have you tried unplugging it?" It wasnt that basic, but was as useless.

In the end he suggested that there may be issues between Studio One 4 and my i9 processor. That I should use another processor in the meantime while waiting an update that might address it. Eh.

I keep things at 44.1 since then. Other then that, I really enjoy the interface as it has been incredibly intuitive. At least for my minimal experience.


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## muziksculp (Jul 4, 2020)

I'm on Studio One Pro 4.6.2 (Windows 10 Pro), no issues with Kontakt, or when quitting Studio One.

Looking forward to S1Pro 5.


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## Will Wilson (Jul 4, 2020)

I had the Kontakt issue on both Windows 10 and Mac. Even on clean projects with a single a Kontakt instance.


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## Phillip Dixon (Jul 4, 2020)

On win 10 never had a problem with s1 and kontakt, as for support.. I bought cubase 10 last year to give it a go had some issues and contacted their support. Numerous times.. Only ever got generic reply then never heard back from them. Horses for courses


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## BezO (Jul 6, 2020)

How did I miss this thread?

My S1 is quite unstable (2019 iMac, 64GB RAM, OS 10.14.6). My Komplete Kontrol disconnects from instruments when I close and open a 2nd or 3rd Song. S1 crashes almost daily with now over 10 plugins/VIs being named in reports, and that's with opening only a portion of them. Half the time the plugin is not even in use in the song. I get that it's developer's job to get their plugins working in each DAW, but why so many having problems with S1? I've had none of these issues in Logic.

And Presonus handled the integration with the Komplete keyboard. After some very basic trouble shooting suggestions, they sent me to NI. I asked if they had a KK to attempt replicating my issues, and they said they din't keep "every keyboard' on hand. But this is fully integrated, by them. Should they not have one on hand to troubleshoot? Their support is batting about .200 with issues I've reported.

I also find S1 unintuitive in some regard, opposite of the consensus. Multi-output routing is not saved with Presets, but is saved with Loops. The instrument list in the console not at all linked with tracks. Needing multi-instruments to put multi-output channels in folders. And needing a plugin to pan stereo tracks is baffling in 2020. Way too many work arounds and indirect was to accomplish things.

We all use these a bit differently, so I understand different experiences. Folks not liking Cubase's mixer while it looks miles ahead of S1's to me, for example. Some not having the stability issues that others have. My S1 experience has not been pleasant. V5 comes at a great time. I'm considering a switch to Cubase. If S1 goes the Logic route and adds a bunch of FL Studio features, passing on basic workflow enhancements, I'll be that much closer to Cubase.


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## Trensharo (Jul 9, 2020)

MisteR said:


> That being said the workflow is the absolute best. If I need to get an idea down quickly, the time from application launch to recording is lightning fast. The FX/instrument browser system with drag and drop is the best.
> 
> Cubase is my main daw but I can make a hot drink after executing any command.
> 
> But processor intensive stuff is no good in Studio One. It just sputters on my quad core i7 with 32gb ram. I hope that by Studio One 7 it will be my only DAW. No joke.


Don't many DAWs have drag and drop, though? Sonar and Cubase have it. I'm sure others do. Cubase also has a browser for presets for VST3 plugins. 

I recently chose Cubase over Studio One, and I'm not having any regrets. I did try the Artist version of Studio One before committing, but I jumped to cubase flying blind (never had used it prior, except for 2-3 minutes at a Guitar Center).

I can see how these points make more sense if you compare Studio One to something like Samplitude (MAGIX refuses to update the UX in any decent way), but much of that is pretty outdated in comparison to multiple other DAWs. 

I didn't do anything of decent size in SO, so I cannot speak of CPU usage. I did notice some of their stock plug-ins used a lot more CPU than what I generally use (some of their modulation effects, for example).


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## robgb (Jul 9, 2020)

Back when I was using Studio One it constantly crashed. Don't know if that's true anymore.


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## DS_Joost (Jul 9, 2020)

robgb said:


> Back when I was using Studio One it constantly crashed. Don't know if that's true anymore.



It never crashed on my side. However, I've got a big issue with MIDI timing. Input Quantize seems broken. Ever had that issue Rob?

Edit: I raised a ticket for that and now I am finding out whether more people have the same issue. My problem is detailed in this post:






Studio One 5 Online Presentation


I tested this too, briefly with a friend. The best thing I found was to quantize in the piano roll via the "Quantize Notes..." option in Musical Functions (right click). Select quantize note ends also. Once the piano toll was "perfectly clean" with a couple quantizes applied, the notation...




vi-control.net


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## robgb (Jul 9, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> It never crashed on my side. However, I've got a big issue with MIDI timing. Input Quantize seems broken. Ever had that issue Rob


Been too long to remember.


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## jbuhler (Jul 10, 2020)

robgb said:


> Back when I was using Studio One it constantly crashed. Don't know if that's true anymore.


It rarely crashes any longer unless you consider hanging on close requiring a force quit to get a crash. It still does that regularly.


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## Rossy (Jul 10, 2020)

jon wayne said:


> Seriously considering Studio One. I started with Cubase, then Logic Pro. Anything missing in SO that you miss?


I watched a bunch of videos about it and it looked right up my alley but I couldn't get the sustain to record even after using their forums. I did contact support that didn't work either so I went back to reaper, happy again.


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## Shagal (Jul 11, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> It never crashed on my side. However, I've got a big issue with MIDI timing. Input Quantize seems broken. Ever had that issue Rob?
> 
> Edit: I raised a ticket for that and now I am finding out whether more people have the same issue. My problem is detailed in this post:
> 
> ...



Maybe you have to setup your MIDI offset.
Presonus did a video about it


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## Al Maurice (Jul 13, 2020)

Shagal said:


> Maybe you have to setup your MIDI offset.
> Presonus did a video about it




DS_Joost -- Just to clarify that comment about aligning the note start and end points was aimed at me, and the question was in regard to how best to ensure the notes in notation view reflected as accurately as possible what had been played in. And not anything to do with any input quantize issues from notes not properly aligning with the grid as per the video in the strand above due to any input latencies.


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## BezO (Jul 13, 2020)

robgb said:


> Back when I was using Studio One it constantly crashed. Don't know if that's true anymore.


It's true for me. Closing then opening a 2nd or 3rd song often means a crash while loading that 2nd or 3rd song. 10-15 different plugins from almost as many different developers were identified as the "cause", and I don't open most of the reports. My Komplete Kontrol also disconnects from instruments under these same circumstances.

I also used to get crashes when dragging and dropping from VIs with sequencers that allow midi drag out; again, a variety of plugins. But this hasn't happened since I updated to 4.6.2, despite them not ever acknowledging it was an issue.

Related, their support is sub par. Other than basic troubleshooting, they often have no answers. They were happy to send me to developer after developer despite the circumstances being way more consistent than the plugins named in the crash reports.

My alternative DAW is Logic, and I've never even needed to contact support. I have more S1 crashes in a week than I've had total in Logic.


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## bigrichpea (Jul 13, 2020)

I am finding the whole Studio One experience ever more frustrating and am close to ditching it entirely. I use it for Mixing, so only with Audio files, and it is crashing at least 5 times per day, usually when removing an Insert effect. 

It doesn't seem to matter which effect, how reliable the effect's manufacturer is or which method is used to remove it, S1 ends abruptly and sometimes borks the project file so that it crashes on opening.

My other DAW (for composition) is Logic and it is stable in comparison.


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## muziksculp (Jul 13, 2020)

bigrichpea said:


> I am finding the whole Studio One experience ever more frustrating and am close to ditching it entirely. I use it for Mixing, so only with Audio files, and it is crashing at least 5 times per day, usually when removing an Insert effect.
> 
> It doesn't seem to matter which effect, how reliable the effect's manufacturer is or which method is used to remove it, S1 ends abruptly and sometimes borks the project file so that it crashes on opening.
> 
> My other DAW (for composition) is Logic and it is stable in comparison.



I use Studio One Pro 4 and now version 5 on Windows 10 Pro , no crashing with plug-ins, or on opening, or quitting. Super stable DAW.

Something is causing these crashes on your Mac System. It could be one of your plug-ins. I think you can disable plug-ins to test, and find out what's causing the crashes.


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## bigrichpea (Jul 13, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I use Studio One Pro 4 and now version 5 on Windows 10 Pro , no crashing with plug-ins, or on opening, or quitting. Super stable DAW.
> 
> Something is causing these crashes on you Mac System. It could be one of your plug-ins. I think you can disable plug-ins to test, and find out what's causing the crashes.



You can disable all plugins to at least get a file to open so you can remove any causing problems and try again. But plugins which work fine in Logic are causing S1 to crash.

It's usually the removal of plugins which is causing crashes and can apparently corrupt other things in the file (like the one I'm wasting so much time on right now).

How is Reaper for mixing?


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## EgM (Jul 13, 2020)

Yeah, there's something seriously wrong with the Mac version with all these reports I'm seeing here and on the official forums. I've been using the Windows version since 3.x and I don't even remember if I ever crashed


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## BezO (Jul 14, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> ...Something is causing these crashes on your Mac System. It could be one of your plug-ins. I think you can disable plug-ins to test, and find out what's causing the crashes.


I'm up to maybe 15 different plugins being identified in crash reports, and that's checking only a portion of the reports. Either many developers don't know how to make plugins work in S1 (no problems for me in Logic), or there's something up with S1.

My crashes seem to happen during particular functions, like opening my 3rd song of a session (my Komplete Kontrol will disconnect from NKS instruments and S1 tracks by the 3rd song as well, requiring a reboot), or dragging midi from a plugin's sequencer and dropping onto S1's. With the drag & drop crash, the plugin being dragged from is never the plugin identified in the report.

IMO, S1 is having issues with particular functions, not plugins.


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## jonathanwright (Jul 14, 2020)

For those on a Mac, try using the VST plugins and disable AU, if you haven't already.

AU caused continual crashes for me, but VST has been very stable.


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## Minko (Jul 14, 2020)

jonathanwright said:


> For those on a Mac, try using the VST plugins and disable AU, if you haven't already.
> 
> AU caused continual crashes for me, but VST has been very stable.


I agree with Jonathan. I did the same thing and it got very stable. Certainly VST3.


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 14, 2020)

Minko said:


> I agree with Jonathan. I did the same thing and it got very stable. Certainly VST3.


Same here. When I disabled AUs things were much better.


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## Al Maurice (Jul 14, 2020)

Have any of you reported this instability issue to Presonus?


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## BezO (Jul 14, 2020)

Al Maurice said:


> Have any of you reported this instability issue to Presonus?


I have, which is part of the frustration. They directed me through some helpdesk level trouble shooting, asked for crash & system reports, then sent me to each plugin developer. They seemed not to consider that so many different plugins are "causing" crashes under the same 2 scenarios.

And with my Komplete Kontrol issue, despite it being fully integrated and them handling the integration, when I asked if they were able to reproduce the disconnects, they told me that they don't keep "every controller" on hand to troubleshoot. No response when I asked how many controllers are integrated with their DAW.

I'm going to try disabling AU versions and see if that helps.


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## shropshirelad (Jul 14, 2020)

Well this is hilarious - I just finished reading this thread, headed over to Studio One, tried to open a New Song and KABOOM!


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## BezO (Jul 14, 2020)

shropshirelad said:


> Well this is hilarious - I just finished reading this thread, headed over to Studio One, tried to open a New Song and KABOOM!


And is there no plugin listed as the cause? I'm still learning how to read these.

Also, was this the 1st song you opened since you had S1 open?

Either way, please report this to S1. They insisted I was an isolated case.


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## shropshirelad (Jul 14, 2020)

This happens all the time to me, so you're definitely not an isolated case. I already had a song open and tried to open a new one to test out the 'use VSTs rather than AU' theory mentioned above. I haven't reported because I thought it was something they knew about - seems to happen to lots of people as far as I can tell.


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## BezO (Jul 14, 2020)

jonathanwright said:


> For those on a Mac, try using the VST plugins and disable AU, if you haven't already.
> 
> AU caused continual crashes for me, but VST has been very stable.


To confirm I did this correctly, I went to Preferences/Advanced/Services/AU Plugin Support and disable?

Can you tell me what to expect if I open a song/project with an AU plugin used?

I had been using VST3 exclusively as of late, at least with plugins that provide them; VST2 otherwise. I don't recall using any AU plugins, but maybe in some earlier songs by habit coming from Logic.




shropshirelad said:


> This happens all the time to me, so you're definitely not an isolated case. I already had a song open and tried to open a new one to test out the 'use VSTs rather than AU' theory mentioned above. I haven't reported because I thought it was something they knew about - seems to happen to lots of people as far as I can tell.


Yup, it's always my 2nd or 3rd song opened.

They either lied to me or folks are not reporting these crashes. Please open a ticket if you have time.


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## robgb (Jul 14, 2020)

jonathanwright said:


> For those on a Mac, try using the VST plugins and disable AU, if you haven't already.
> 
> AU caused continual crashes for me, but VST has been very stable.


For fun I tried to open Studio One on my computer. It constantly crashes on boot. Part of the reason I dumped it.


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## Ed Wine (Jul 14, 2020)

robgb said:


> For fun I tried to open Studio One on my computer. It constantly crashes on boot. Part of the reason I dumped it.


That was an costly thing to do. You should have had it looked at.


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## robgb (Jul 14, 2020)

Ed Wine said:


> That was an costly thing to do. You should have had it looked at.


I moved on a while ago. Too annoying. Apparently there's no way to boot Studio One in safe mode (at least my version). It can't handle scanning Melda, Tone Boosters, Waves, iZotope, SWAM on boot up, so what's the point? I've tried reopening the app 30 times in a row and it simply can't make it all the way through the scanning process. Yet in my new DAW it's smooth sailing. So, really, it's not worth the effort anymore.


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## muziksculp (Jul 14, 2020)

There are thousands of happy Studio One Pro users on Mac. What does that tell you ?


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## Architekton (Jul 14, 2020)

Never ever had a crash with Studio One, especially not when booting up. I am on Windows. Ive been using S1 since it came out, always worked smoothly on 3 different machines in past 10 years.


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## BezO (Jul 14, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> There are thousands of happy Studio One Pro users on Mac. What does that tell you ?


It tells me that we all have different workflows. It also tells me that some people's disappointment thresholds are different.

Not everyone works on several songs in a session like I do. Not everyone uses plugins with their own sequencers and drag & drop from them like I do. Those folks could have a much different experience and experience than me.

And some overlook crashes, adjust their workflow, use other plugins, etc.

What does it tell you?


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## muziksculp (Jul 14, 2020)

The issues with S1Pro on Mac are System Specific. 

I'm on PC, no issues, I'm sure there are some PC and some Mac users who are having issues, but that again is system specific. The majority of both Mac and PC Studio One Pro users are very satisfied, and happy with it. I'm one of the happy users.


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## BezO (Jul 14, 2020)

Well, I sent Presonus my system report. If my system is incompatible, they should be able to tell me.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 14, 2020)

Trensharo said:


> Don't many DAWs have drag and drop, though? Sonar and Cubase have it. I'm sure others do. Cubase also has a browser for presets for VST3 plugins.



Can't say it's more stable (big reason is plugin developers don't generally test against it), but Tracktion has had drag and drop effects - and an easy way to organize favorite plugins without using system folders (looking at you, Ableton) - since at least... v3? Definitely v5. It's been so many years. I don't have S1, but the videos of it have always seemed a mashup of Tracktion, Ableton, and FruityLoops.

Tracktion is super easy to create music in: select an input on the left, drag and drop synths or effects on the right, hit record or drag clips to the middle (or use a template). Boom. Done. That said, it's not without its flaws, such as stability and hardware integration.

I'd love to try an S1 v5 demo.

edit: Tracktion also had Melodyne first but that’d be familiar in S1, same with a similar chord track and many other features that look inspired by Tracktion


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## robgb (Jul 14, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> There are thousands of happy Studio One Pro users on Mac. What does that tell you ?


I'm happy for them. I actually LIKE Studio One when I can get it working. But considering the price just to upgrade, coupled with so many crashes, it just wasn't worth it for me. I certainly don't begrudge anyone their experience. But someone is asking if they should switch. My advice is if you're going to spend that kind of money, download the demo first and make absolutely sure it works with your system.


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 14, 2020)

robgb said:


> I moved on a while ago. Too annoying. Apparently there's no way to boot Studio One in safe mode (at least my version). It can't handle scanning Melda, Tone Boosters, Waves, iZotope, SWAM on boot up, so what's the point? I've tried reopening the app 30 times in a row and it simply can't make it all the way through the scanning process. Yet in my new DAW it's smooth sailing. So, really, it's not worth the effort anymore.



maybe it wasn’t the case last time you used it but you can disable the boot up plugin scan now.


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## Ed Wine (Jul 14, 2020)

robgb said:


> I moved on a while ago. Too annoying. Apparently there's no way to boot Studio One in safe mode (at least my version). It can't handle scanning Melda, Tone Boosters, Waves, iZotope, SWAM on boot up, so what's the point? I've tried reopening the app 30 times in a row and it simply can't make it all the way through the scanning process. Yet in my new DAW it's smooth sailing. So, really, it's not worth the effort anymore.


I was being flippant. I found your statement somewhat pretentious. Clearly, your experience is not the norm and a fault in your rig. Presonus Studio One would have disappeared long ago if it was a joke and unfit for purpose as your statement reads. The software of late, in fact, was in such demand their website couldn't cope. It's one of the most inspiring and influencing (drag and drop; ARA with Melodyne etc,) DAWs on the market. It's not the best nor the worst. But the small team who are continuously developing it deserve more than your snigger for coming this far it such a short time. You wouldn't be too pleased if some arse wrote about your hard work: "I wanted to listened to his music for giggles, couldn't get it to play, so I thought i'm erasing this crap" Be constructive and helpful, I believe that is what this forum was made for.


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## robgb (Jul 14, 2020)

Ed Wine said:


> I was being flippant


I wasn't. Clearly I've said that others may have a different experience and that I actually like Studio One. But, as I suggested, download the demo and make sure it works for you. If that's too pretentious of a statement for you, then so be it.

As for it being my system, please explain why I don't have this problem with any other DAW.


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## robgb (Jul 14, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> maybe it wasn’t the case last time you used it but you can disable the boot up plugin scan now.


Good to know. Thanks. It might be possible in my version. I just can't get it to boot up to make that change.


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 14, 2020)

robgb said:


> Good to know. Thanks. It might be possible in my version. I just can't get it to boot up to make that change.



understood. it's probably irrelevant now, but if you ever did want to try it again, just move your plugins folder to your desktop and open studio one so that it scans an empty folder at the path where it previously expected the plugins to be. then you should be able to make the changes. 

Studio One has made some great changes if you are curious. Though I'm sure you've settled into something that works well for you now.


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## EgM (Jul 14, 2020)

robgb said:


> Good to know. Thanks. It might be possible in my version. I just can't get it to boot up to make that change.



On Windows, You can disable plugin scan at boot up by editing C:\Users\{you}\AppData\Roaming\Presonus\Studio One [4 or 5]\x64\Vstplugins.settings

On Mac, the location of these files is in /Users/{you}/Library/Application Support/Presonus/Studio One [4 or 5]/x64/



```
<Section path="UserSettings">
        <Attributes scanAtStartup="1">
            <List x:id="userPaths">
                <Url type="2" url="file:///C:/Program Files/VSTPlugins/"/>
                <Url type="2" url="file:///C:/Program Files/Steinberg/VSTPlugins/"/>
                <Url type="2" url="file:///C:/Program Files/Common Files/Steinberg/"/>
                <Url type="2" url="file:///C:/Program Files/Common Files/VST3/"/>
                <Url type="2" url="file:///C:/Program Files/Common Files/Steinberg/VST2/"/>
            </List>
        </Attributes>
    </Section>
```

You can change scanAtStartup = x to "0" to disable the plugin check. Then it would be a good idea to check the file "PluginScanner.log" in the same folder, the last entry is most likely the problematic plugin failing validation.



P.S. There's a lot of configs you can do in there that aren't in the Studio One configuration window


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## easyrider (Jul 14, 2020)

Studio one for me has never crashed. CPU blows chunks over cubase and it’s rock solid.

Windows 10 Professional.


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## Trensharo (Jul 14, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Studio one for me has never crashed. CPU blows chunks over cubase and it’s rock solid.
> 
> Windows 10 Professional.


Chose Cubase over it and have no regrets. Did run the Artist (4.6) version for a while to test it. 

Windows Pro has literally no advantage over Home for a DAW. This really hasn't been the case since Windows XP. ;-P

I chuckle whenever people write "Windows 10 Professional," as it it matters. Literal waste of money, now, unless you need Domain Join or RDP capability.


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## maestro2be (Jul 14, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Studio one for me has never crashed. CPU blows chunks over cubase and it’s rock solid.
> 
> Windows 10 Professional.


Just curious if you mean "Blows Chunks" as in good or bad? Studio One absolutely destroys Cubase on my system CPU wise in a great way.


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## maestro2be (Jul 14, 2020)

Trensharo said:


> Chose Cubase over it and have no regrets. Did run the Artist (4.6) version for a while to test it.
> 
> Windows Pro has literally no advantage over Home for a DAW. This really hasn't been the case since Windows XP. ;-P
> 
> I chuckle whenever people write "Windows 10 Professional," as it it matters. Literal waste of money, now, unless you need Domain Join or RDP capability.



Just to clear something up from what you're saying. There's absolutely reasons to need Pro over Home. Immediately the first 2 that come to mind are if you want more than 128GB RAM or more than 1 processor in your machine. More people will push the memory barrier than the getting double CPU's but that hard barrier is still there. It won't be long and we will be blowing past the 64-core maximum that it supports as well.


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## greggybud (Jul 14, 2020)

Trensharo said:


> Windows Pro has literally no advantage over Home for a DAW. This really hasn't been the case since Windows XP. ;-P
> 
> I chuckle whenever people write "Windows 10 Professional," as it it matters. Literal waste of money, now, unless you need Domain Join or RDP capability.


Apprently you are not familiar with the Windows update options between Home and Pro?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 14, 2020)

I’ve found S1 4.5 to be worse than Logic and Cubase 10.5 CPU utilization wise on my Mac. Has this improved in 5.0?


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 14, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I’ve found S1 4.5 to be worse than Logic and Cubase 10.5 CPU utilization wise on my Mac. Has this improved in 5.0?



that sounds like something entirely related to your unique system. Don’t know if anyone could properly confirm that improvement for you.


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## robgb (Jul 15, 2020)

EgM said:


> On Windows, You can disable plugin scan at boot up by editing C:\Users\{you}\AppData\Roaming\Presonus\Studio One [4 or 5]\x64\Vstplugins.settings
> 
> On Mac, the location of these files is in /Users/{you}/Library/Application Support/Presonus/Studio One [4 or 5]/x64/
> 
> ...


Thanks. I'll take a look.


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## robgb (Jul 15, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> understood. it's probably irrelevant now, but if you ever did want to try it again, just move your plugins folder to your desktop and open studio one so that it scans an empty folder at the path where it previously expected the plugins to be. then you should be able to make the changes.
> 
> Studio One has made some great changes if you are curious. Though I'm sure you've settled into something that works well for you now.


Well, I do have a couple years worth of projects I wouldn't mind revisiting now and again


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## robgb (Jul 15, 2020)

By the way. Those who are blaming someone's system for the failure of a piece of software should perhaps consider that, in many cases, we can use similar software with zero problems on that same system. To my mind, when I can use just about any DAW without incident, it's the software that crashes that has the problem, not the system.


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## Will Wilson (Jul 15, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> The issues with S1Pro on Mac are System Specific.
> 
> I'm on PC, no issues, I'm sure there are some PC and some Mac users who are having issues, but that again is system specific. The majority of both Mac and PC Studio One Pro users are very satisfied, and happy with it. I'm one of the happy users.



Not true. I had endless issues on both Windows and Mac which was one of the reasons I was so happy to move back to a Mac and Logic. 

I have no doubt that Studio One will work for many, it didn't work for me and didn't fit my workflow. I don't do much audio work, I'm not a church or a live band or a "producer" making beats.


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 15, 2020)

robgb said:


> By the way. Those who are blaming someone's system for the failure of a piece of software should perhaps consider that, in many cases, we can use similar software with zero problems on that same system. To my mind, when I can use just about any DAW without incident, it's the software that crashes that has the problem, not the system.



I think this is the complicated nature of troubleshooting problems though. Just because one piece of software works fine on your computer, doesn't mean that it's not a matter of compatibility issues with your system. For example, on my system, studio one works perfectly, but for Cubase and Pro Tools, I get CONSTANT errors related to certain plugins that don't come up in Logic and Studio One.

I think we can't rule out either possibility. We should try and recreate issues to see if its a common problem for many users, but just because you have a problem with one software on your system that doesn't occur in another DAW, doesn't automatically mean its a problem with the DAW.

Actually, an interesting case recently, while trying to upgrade my UAD software, the recent update bricked my interface for me. I spent weeks going back and forth with tech support for an issue they couldn't replicate, and an issue no one else was having. I followed all the steps to the letter, and still no resolution. It was assumed it was Catalina's fault or a number of other potential things. When I tried installing on my laptop on Cataline instead of my desktop, none of those issues occurred. Turns out I had a permissions issues that came up only on my desktop that couldn't be fixed without some deep diving into terminal commands. Same OS, same hardware, some software, but widely different results.


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 15, 2020)

Will Wilson said:


> I have no doubt that Studio One will work for many, it didn't work for me and didn't fit my workflow. I don't do much audio work, I'm not a church or a live band or a "producer" making beats.



workflow is everything, so no doubt you found the way that works for you. I think if you're one of the people who have it working stable on your system, there's a lack of understanding of how deep studio one's features are. While I think it still probably is less than satisfactory for people wanting expression maps, and some deeper midi-editing features, the recent updates have brought it closer to Cubase level. Additionally I think people aren't fully aware of some of its multi-instrument and multi-effect splitter options, macro options, ease in midi-routing and drag and drop features, or its deeper editing features for both midi and audio users. 

Not the workflow for everyone, sure, but it does not fail in any particular style of creation and sound work. I've used it for film scores, pop, orchestral, podcasts, lives, electronic, etc.


----------



## robgb (Jul 15, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> I think this is the complicated nature of troubleshooting problems though. Just because one piece of software works fine on your computer, doesn't mean that it's not a matter of compatibility issues with your system. For example, on my system, studio one works perfectly, but for Cubase and Pro Tools, I get CONSTANT errors related to certain plugins that don't come up in Logic and Studio One.
> 
> I think we can't rule out either possibility. We should try and recreate issues to see if its a common problem for many users, but just because you have a problem with one software on your system that doesn't occur in another DAW, doesn't automatically mean its a problem with the DAW.
> 
> Actually, an interesting case recently, while trying to upgrade my UAD software, the recent update bricked my interface for me. I spent weeks going back and forth with tech support for an issue they couldn't replicate, and an issue no one else was having. I followed all the steps to the letter, and still no resolution. It was assumed it was Catalina's fault or a number of other potential things. When I tried installing on my laptop on Cataline instead of my desktop, none of those issues occurred. Turns out I had a permissions issues that came up only on my desktop that couldn't be fixed without some deep diving into terminal commands. Same OS, same hardware, some software, but widely different results.


I get that, but think that's more of a PC problem than Mac, since PCs are made by many different vendors and Mac software is so tightly integrated with the hardware that the chances of problems are minimized unless the software vendor itself hasn't properly coded their app. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with S1, but it seems odd to me that I have to restart it fifty times for it to complete a vst scan, only to have it crash the moment the scan is completed. I have experienced crashes with my current DAW when doing a full rescan of vsts, but nothing like this.


----------



## chocobitz825 (Jul 15, 2020)

robgb said:


> I get that, but think that's more of a PC problem than Mac, since PCs are made by many different vendors and Mac software is so tightly integrated with the hardware that the chances of problems are minimized unless the software vendor itself hasn't properly coded their app. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with S1, but it seems odd to me that I have to restart it fifty times for it to complete a vst scan, only to have it crash the moment the scan is completed. I have experienced crashes with my current DAW when doing a full rescan of vsts, but nothing like this.



Yeah, I get what you're saying. again it's hard to pinpoint. I recall having plugin scan issues in the earlier versions of studio one 4, before they implemented the plugin scan disable feature. Again, at that time something that happened on one computer and not the other despite them both being macs. 

This whole thing did spark my interest in how the current DAWs vary, and we really are spoiled. Some of the most recent features added to Studio One are things that Cubase and Logic have had for a long time, but at the same time things like track import for Cubase, or enhanced samplers for Logix are things studio one has had for a long time. I have all 3 DAWs and really it is absolutely about workflow and comfort, because they almost all have the exact same features. S1 works for me, but there is really no wrong answer these days.


----------



## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

Trensharo said:


> Chose Cubase over it and have no regrets. Did run the Artist (4.6) version for a while to test it.
> 
> Windows Pro has literally no advantage over Home for a DAW. This really hasn't been the case since Windows XP. ;-P
> 
> I chuckle whenever people write "Windows 10 Professional," as it it matters. Literal waste of money, now, unless you need Domain Join or RDP capability.



It matters to me as I need RDP to maintain my home servers....Plus I might upgrade my Ram to 256gb in the future...

Your Point ?


----------



## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

maestro2be said:


> Just curious if you mean "Blows Chunks" as in good or bad? Studio One absolutely destroys Cubase on my system CPU wise in a great way.



Good way...Cubase is bloat compared to S1 Both in load times and CPU..I have both....


----------



## Will Wilson (Jul 15, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> workflow is everything, so no doubt you found the way that works for you. I think if you're one of the people who have it working stable on your system, there's a lack of understanding of how deep studio one's features are. While I think it still probably is less than satisfactory for people wanting expression maps, and some deeper midi-editing features, the recent updates have brought it closer to Cubase level. Additionally I think people aren't fully aware of some of its multi-instrument and multi-effect splitter options, macro options, ease in midi-routing and drag and drop features, or its deeper editing features for both midi and audio users.
> 
> Not the workflow for everyone, sure, but it does not fail in any particular style of creation and sound work. I've used it for film scores, pop, orchestral, podcasts, lives, electronic, etc.



The only thing I miss is the drag and drop and being able to search for plugins, fx, instruments etc


----------



## chocobitz825 (Jul 15, 2020)

Will Wilson said:


> The only thing I miss is the drag and drop and being able to search for plugins, fx, instruments etc



what DAW are you using now?


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## Will Wilson (Jul 15, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> what DAW are you using now?



Logic Pro X


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 15, 2020)

Will Wilson said:


> Logic Pro X



Ah, yeah those functional differences are things that turned me off of logic. great DAW though. The new update looks fantastic.


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

robgb said:


> I get that, but think that's more of a PC problem than Mac, since PCs are made by many different vendors and Mac software is so tightly integrated with the hardware that the chances of problems are minimized unless the software vendor itself hasn't properly coded their app. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with S1, but it seems odd to me that I have to restart it fifty times for it to complete a vst scan, only to have it crash the moment the scan is completed. I have experienced crashes with my current DAW when doing a full rescan of vsts, but nothing like this.



Sounds to me you have a dodgy plugin...If people can run S1 on their MAC without issue then you need to look at your config...


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 15, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Sounds to me you have a dodgy plugin...If people can run S1 on their MAC without issue then you need to look at your config...



i think it’s much easier to determine when a person can test for themselves on multiple computers. Often people only have one systems and assume the issues are software related and not system related. If you can try the problem on multiple systems yourself it becomes more clear where the problems originate.


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## robgb (Jul 15, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Sounds to me you have a dodgy plugin...If people can run S1 on their MAC without issue then you need to look at your config...


It isn't a dodgy plugin. These plugins work fine on other DAWs on the same system. S1 is crashed by a number of plugins and as a result blacklists them. But those very same blacklisted plugins work fine in all of my other apps. We're talking Ozone, Tone Boosters, HY, SWAM... All reputable, well-made plugins. Which suggests to me that the problem is S1.

When only one app is crashing, the problem tends to be that particular app.


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 15, 2020)

robgb said:


> It isn't a dodgy plugin. These plugins work fine on other DAWs on the same system. S1 is crashed by a number of plugins and as a result blacklists them. But those very same blacklisted plugins work fine in all of my other apps. We're talking Ozone, Tone Boosters, HY, SWAM... All reputable, well-made plugins. Which suggests to me that the problem is S1.
> 
> When only one app is crashing, the problem tends to that particular app.



I don’t think that’s enough to say that it’s studio one though. As stated before, for me waves plugins and a few iLok related plugins work without issue in studio one and logic, but are blacklisted in Cubase and pro tools. Without investigating deeper into the core issue, it’s not enough information to say studio one is the cause.

Also SWAM and ozone work perfectly for me. I use ozone on every project. It’s in my template.


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

robgb said:


> It isn't a dodgy plugin. These plugins work fine on other DAWs on the same system. S1 is crashed by a number of plugins and as a result blacklists them. But those very same blacklisted plugins work fine in all of my other apps. We're talking Ozone, Tone Boosters, HY, SWAM... All reputable, well-made plugins. Which suggests to me that the problem is S1.
> 
> When only one app is crashing, the problem tends to be that particular app.



By this notion other users S1 would be crashing on the same system.....

Can others run S1 on a Mac without issue? If the answer is yes then you need to look at the reasons why it’s crashing on your system....


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## schiing (Jul 15, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> i think it’s much easier to determine when a person can test for themselves on multiple computers.


This is true.

Regardless, and adding to all the voices: My own, anecdotal experience with Studio One in Win10 suggests that it became a little more unstable with each 4.x release.

3.5 was by far the most stable DAW I ever had - never a single crash - not once.

These days, my 4.6.2 crashes occasionally. Some examples that come to mind: When I'm closing a large project, or during some drag and drop operations. A few other annoyances as well, such as forgetting my custom Instrument Library locations EVERY TIME I open the DAW.

I thought these issues might be caused by faulty plugins or some sort of accumulated damage over the years - but the problems remained on a clean install of 4.6 on my new computer this spring, so I'm inclined to think that 4.x is to blame somehow.

I'd still say it's more stable than any DAW I ever owned before it, though + most of the unstable behaviour is related to open/close operations - so I'm still a happy customer.

[Specs: S1 64-bit 4.6.2, Win 10 Pro, i9-10900x, 3.7GHz, 128GB RAM, Focusrite 18i20 (beta drivers) 2nd gen]


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 15, 2020)

schiing said:


> This is true.
> 
> Regardless, and adding to all the voices: My own, anecdotal experience with Studio One in Win10 suggests that it became a little more unstable with each 4.x release.
> 
> ...



Those sound lie valid issues that might have been resolved in 5.0. I don’t have a stable windows system to test, but perhaps other windows users might have some input.

I do know the new save functions have improved a lot for me in terms of save time, and projects not crashing when closing.


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## robgb (Jul 15, 2020)

easyrider said:


> By this notion other users S1 would be crashing on the same system.....
> 
> Can others run S1 on a Mac without issue? If the answer is yes then you need to look at the reasons why it’s crashing on your system....


I would agree if this system was the only one of my systems that S1 crashes on. It crashes on my other two Macs as well.

But maybe it's my electricity that's the culprit. It certainly can't be S1

Try Googling Studio One crashes sometime. I'm clearly not the only one having problems.


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## easyrider (Jul 15, 2020)

robgb said:


> I would agree if this system was the only one of my systems that S1 crashes on. It crashes on my other two Macs as well.
> 
> But maybe it's my electricity that's the culprit. It certainly can't be S1
> 
> Try Googling Studio One crashes sometime. I'm clearly not the only one having problems.



If it works on other people’s Macs then what is different about yours to theirs?

Do you have an app installed that conflicts?

PC is a different beast...and the infrastructure is not locked down...but if S1 works on one MAC and not on another the only thing to look at is OSX version....and current app installs...that is of course after removing any USB or external drives from the equation...


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## BezO (Jul 15, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> ...Actually, an interesting case recently, while trying to upgrade my UAD software, the recent update bricked my interface for me. I spent weeks going back and forth with tech support for an issue they couldn't replicate, and an issue no one else was having. I followed all the steps to the letter, and still no resolution. It was assumed it was Catalina's fault or a number of other potential things. When I tried installing on my laptop on Cataline instead of my desktop, none of those issues occurred. Turns out I had a permissions issues that came up only on my desktop that couldn't be fixed without some deep diving into terminal commands. Same OS, same hardware, some software, but widely different results.


How was this discovered? If Presonus had a system report for my computer, should they discover such an issue?




easyrider said:


> Sounds to me you have a dodgy plugin...If people can run S1 on their MAC without issue then you need to look at your config...


Similar question. Look at what in my configuration? If Presonus had a system report for my computer, should they be able to tell me what's wrong with my configuration?


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 15, 2020)

BezO said:


> How was this discovered? If Presonus had a system report for my computer, should they discover such an issue?



thats how we identified the problem. we found in my systems report that for some reason the installer was failing to notarize a particular kext file. Even though my macbook was able to install without any issues, my desktop could never properly install the software until I manually forced it to notarize the file. I still have no idea why it happened only on that system, but it was what it was.


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## maestro2be (Jul 15, 2020)

It really is interesting to see how different these DAWs work for everyone. For me, on my brand new system (this was also true on my DAW I ran for 7 years prior to this one) Studio One absolutely destroys Cubase & Nuendo. It doesn't matter if I use VE Pro 6, VE Pro 7, Raise my buffer to 2048, turn off ASIO Guard or not, Studio One absolutely obliterates it in every possible way. Just last night this all sparked me to try again. I couldn't even get to 42 tracks at once in Cubase without complete stuttering and Cubase playing a note, freezing, playing a note, freezing.

The performance of Cubase is so horrendous on my last 2 DAW's that it's completely unusable. Not to mention it crashing when I bring in a new VST, or try to tweak parameters on existing. I tried working with Steinberg Support and the Cubase forums but it just leads to absolutely nowhere.

In terms of Studio One, it has one annoying behavior for my system. It crashes not on startup, but after a song has been worked on a few days, it will start crashing that song the very first time I launch Studio One and the second time I open it, be fine all day. It's super annoying. If I start a brand new song, that's blank or only has a few VST's in it then it's fine. Even if I create 1500 tracks all with the a few simple VST's, it will open and close perfectly. At some point though, once the effects get put on the tracks and the spatialization plugins come into effect and the performance is recorded, something starts making it do this annoying behavior. In my ticket with S1 when I asked which plugin is crashing it, they told me lots of them.

Does anyone know how to read the Crash Dumps from Studio One on Windows 10? I would love to look at them myself.


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 15, 2020)

maestro2be said:


> It really is interesting to see how different these DAWs work for everyone. For me, on my brand new system (this was also true on my DAW I ran for 7 years prior to this one) Studio One absolutely destroys Cubase & Nuendo. It doesn't matter if I use VE Pro 6, VE Pro 7, Raise my buffer to 2048, turn off ASIO Guard or not, Studio One absolutely obliterates it in every possible way. Just last night this all sparked me to try again. I couldn't even get to 42 tracks at once in Cubase without complete stuttering and Cubase playing a note, freezing, playing a note, freezing.
> 
> The performance of Cubase is so horrendous on my last 2 DAW's that it's completely unusable. Not to mention it crashing when I bring in a new VST, or try to tweak parameters on existing. I tried working with Steinberg Support and the Cubase forums but it just leads to absolutely nowhere.
> 
> ...



so I have a weird issue on my system, which I wonder if it's related. My plugin scan tanks a bunch of my plugins on my current internet connection. It takes forever to finish and then when it does almost half of my plugins are blacklisted. This all went away when I connect to a VPN during the plugin scan. I've wondered if maybe Studio One is running into issues bringing up a bunch of plugins and the same time and verifying/authorizing them...especially ones that might connect to the internet for verification. I have yet to test it, but I wonder if those crashes would happen if you were not connected to the internet.


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## BezO (Jul 15, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> thats how we identified the problem. we found in my systems report that for some reason the installer was failing to notarize a particular kext file. Even though my macbook was able to install without any issues, my desktop could never properly install the software until I manually forced it to notarize the file. I still have no idea why it happened only on that system, but it was what it was.


Maybe I got the intern at Presonus Support.

I updated my ticket a couple of days ago, though I'm sure they're getting slammed after V5. Though I had mentioned specific circumstances before, it wasn't clear at the time these were really the only circumstances leading to crashes. Maybe I'll get a better tech this time, though I'm now concerned they won't be dealing with 4.6.2 issues any longer.

I don't use my Macbook Pro much any more - actually, I don't think I've used it since moving to S1 - but I keep it updated. The 2 Plugin Alliance plugins blacklisted on my iMac are not blacklisted on my MBP. My MBP, I guess, just ignores the VST2. Both the VST3 & AU versions work fine on both systems. My understanding is that some developers use the same ID(?) for their VST2 & 3 and S1 will only install/recognize the VST3.


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## Al Maurice (Jul 15, 2020)

Quite a few DAWS have this annoying behaviour when you first load them if the plugin hasn't yet been verified or they try to go online, then sometimes a popup is presented some like Ableton seem to render it fine others don't and they just hang or crash. Perhaps this is what some of you have come across.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 15, 2020)

All DAWs have their issues, be new in the current version, or something that's been around for a long time. I'm wrestling with some in the DAW I use regularly. 

Studio One still hasn't fixed a long-standing jitter issue. Here's a link, though it sounds like the article may get updated as the author is learning more.

https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/2020/07/11/daw-v-daw-s1-fail.html

The same site elsewhere also highlights pan-law issues and automation issues, up through v4. Unknown as of yet if they've been addressed in v5 (I doubt it, as most DAW makers focus on new features to get new money rather than tackle hard, old problems... but I can be very very wrong on this).


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## Minko (Jul 16, 2020)

Al Maurice said:


> Have any of you reported this instability issue to Presonus?


Without reading a lot of the other posts, yes I have. And others also.

I used to have a direct line through the dutch reseller. That worked pretty well. Lot's of direct feedback on how Presonus thought about things. Workarounds etc.

Since Presonus cut them out, things got worse. That is why Gregor (and others) are now holding meetups (both in off and online). Lots of the stuff that came out from those meetups is implemented in the new Studio One looking at the feature list. 

I think the meetups are a big improvement. So yes the facebook group and the whole feature request thing doesn't work like I would like it to work, but the meetups are a step in the right direction.


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## shropshirelad (Jul 16, 2020)

I worked on a project all day yesterday without a single incident. Came to the project this morning, inserted a stock EQ onto a track and it crashed. I've reported it but it's the seemingly random nature of the crashes that is frustrating.


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## rrichard63 (Jul 16, 2020)

I have two hypotheses that might help explain why some people experience frequent crashes in any given DAW (including Studio One) while others don't. They would be time consuming and expensive to test, but I think they make sense intuitively.

(1) The longer it has been since the last time you reinstalled your operating system from scratch, the more frequently complex apps like DAWs will crash.

(2) The larger the number of big, complex software packages you have installed on your computer, the more frequently complex apps like DAWs will crash.

This might be less true of Macs than it is of Windows machines. I don't know about that.


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 16, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> I have two hypotheses that might help explain why some people experience frequent crashes in any given DAW (including Studio One) while others don't. They would be time consuming and expensive to test, but I think they make sense intuitively.
> 
> (1) The longer it has been since the last time you reinstalled your operating system from scratch, the more frequently complex apps like DAWs will crash.
> 
> ...



1. Me

and 

2. Me


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## robgb (Jul 16, 2020)

easyrider said:


> If it works on other people’s Macs then what is different about yours to theirs?
> 
> Do you have an app installed that conflicts?
> 
> PC is a different beast...and the infrastructure is not locked down...but if S1 works on one MAC and not on another the only thing to look at is OSX version....and current app installs...that is of course after removing any USB or external drives from the equation...


I think it's funny that you assume the problem is my three Macs, when none of them have any problems running any other software. If one piece of software is crashing on three different (not identical) machines, then the problem is the software, not the system. That is the only logical conclusion.

As for others, again, try Googling "Studio One crashing" and you'll find that this problem affects a lot of people. As I said, when it's working, Studio One is a great DAW. I prefer the DAW I'm using now, but if S1 is your thing and it's working for you—fantastic. 



rrichard63 said:


> (1) The longer it has been since the last time you reinstalled your operating system from scratch, the more frequently complex apps like DAWs will crash.


I think this makes sense. Except in my case the only DAW that's crashing is S1. My current and other previous DAWs worked just fine. Same systems.


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## Al Maurice (Jul 16, 2020)

I just downloaded the latest release notes for Studio One 5, it contains the following paragraph which I've included here for reference: 

'It is important to note also that Studio One 5 includes several changes to audio processing features, most notably in the updated Native Effects plug-in suite. Because of this, you may notice changes to the sound of your Song or Project. These changes may be subtle or quite noticeable depending on the processing that was used. Because of this, it is highly recommended that you retain a copy of your session in the earlier version of Studio One so that you can revert if you so chose.'

So we could assert that some of your earlier projects may not be 100% compatible; also many of their stock plugins have had a UI makeover and they've included sidechain support too amongst other changes, which may explain some of the crashes on adding additional plugins witnessed on this forum.

Thus I've been avoiding overwriting many of my older projects for now, as once saved on Studio One 5 there is no going back to an older version due to a lack of backwards compatibility.


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## easyrider (Jul 28, 2020)

Lukas said:


> That's not true actually. The Studio One way to do this is technically the same as in Cubase but more flexible.
> 
> - Add your output channels for KONTAKT in the instrument window
> - Assign your tracks to channels via the inspector. That's necessary as the DAW can't know which MIDI CH is routed to which instrument output.
> ...




I still cant get this to work...I have added the output channels for kontakt in the instrument window done everything you said and its still not working :(

I think I am going mad

There must be a bug.....Its getting to the point that I'm going to have to film it to prove my sanity


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## easyrider (Jul 28, 2020)

@Lukas See video I did all you said to do...even though I assign the correct channel...The high strings is still coming out of the harp bus...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 28, 2020)

easyrider said:


> @Lukas See video I did all you said to do...even though I assign the correct channel...The high strings is still coming out of the harp bus...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Have you changed the output setting on the kontakt instrument for the high strings? You probably have all the instruments coming out of output 1/2 (St. 1) in kontakt. Set the other instruments to a different output like 3/4 for the high strings and they will come out of the aux track in your mixer that was created by kontakt.


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## easyrider (Jul 29, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> Have you changed the output setting on the kontakt instrument for the high strings? You probably have all the instruments coming out of output 1/2 (St. 1) in kontakt. Set the other instruments to a different output like 3/4 for the high strings and they will come out of the aux track in your mixer that was created by kontakt.



Thanks for the input.

I now have it working it’s not straight forward...I wish S1 just created a channel when you select the midi channel in Kontakt like cubase...

It just needs that bit more work to setup...S1 gains massively in other areas though so I’ll forgive it....


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## sumVI (Jul 29, 2020)

As a Notion user, I was curious about the new version of Studio One. It sounds like it is still a big headache.

The notation features of version 5 are highly compelling, I hope Presonus works things out. In the meantime, I will just keep using Reaper.


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## Andoran (Jul 29, 2020)

Trensharo said:


> Chose Cubase over it and have no regrets. Did run the Artist (4.6) version for a while to test it.
> 
> Windows Pro has literally no advantage over Home for a DAW. This really hasn't been the case since Windows XP. ;-P
> 
> I chuckle whenever people write "Windows 10 Professional," as it it matters. Literal waste of money, now, unless you need Domain Join or RDP capability.


Or unless you need more than 16gb ram on your machine, to load multiple sound libraries that need huge amounts of ram, which requires Windows Professional, which I imagine many of those who frequent these forums have at least 64gb on their machines.


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## EgM (Jul 29, 2020)

Andoran said:


> Or unless you need more than 16gb ram on your machine, to load multiple sound libraries that need huge amounts of ram, which requires Windows Professional, which I imagine many of those who frequent these forums have at least 64gb on their machines.



Windows 10 Home supports 128Gb of ram.

One great benefit to Win 10 Pro in my opinion is more control over group policies such as blocking updates entirely, etc.


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## chocobitz825 (Jul 29, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Thanks for the input.
> 
> I now have it working it’s not straight forward...I wish S1 just created a channel when you select the midi channel in Kontakt like cubase...
> 
> It just needs that bit more work to setup...S1 gains massively in other areas though so I’ll forgive it....




I would say its less of a flaw and more of a matter of workflow. I suppose it would be cool if there was an option to switch between the current studio one method and the Cubase method. I can appreciate how it is now because studio one's splitter function shows how they're aiming at allowing multi's for any of your plugins within one fader. I like that it doesn't clutter up my mixer with unnecessary faders unless I choose to have them. 

For the sake of Kontakt, I find the "set it and forget it" method is best. Set up an instance of kontakt with 16 output channels, and route them properly. Save that as the default preset for Kontakt (with no instruments loaded) and then every time you open up Kontakt, your output channels will be ready. Since the midi channels automatically set with each instrument, all you have to do is change the output channel on the instrument for any of the ones you want a separate fader for. This way you don't have to fuss with anything, and you ahve control over when you want different faders or not.


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## Al Maurice (Jul 30, 2020)

sumVI said:


> As a Notion user, I was curious about the new version of Studio One. It sounds like it is still a big headache.
> 
> The notation features of version 5 are highly compelling, I hope Presonus works things out. In the meantime, I will just keep using Reaper.



I would say that the notation features are most certainly welcome for simple note editing or entry tasks, even though they are quite basic. I find them useful for completing a quick spot check as I play the parts in.

Some areas for possible improvement: i). For instance if I would like to export my score in MusicXML format, I still need to import it to Notion in the usual way and carry that step from there.

ii). Also the key switches might not show up in the editor window, but they are displayed in the track and I have found there is no option available as yet to exclude them when exporting to midi, which in some cases (like for orchestration purposes) would be handy.

So if you have more complex notational requirements, for the moment other DAWs might still be more suitable. Thus it's just a case of us reporting the improvements and getting them voted up, so by the end of this major release Studio One may be useable enough by the composing community. It's likely by next major release Presonus may move on to a different area of development, as it seems for version 4 they targetted the Protools user base on the whole and the EDM crowd.


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## easyrider (Jul 30, 2020)

chocobitz825 said:


> I would say its less of a flaw and more of a matter of workflow. I suppose it would be cool if there was an option to switch between the current studio one method and the Cubase method. I can appreciate how it is now because studio one's splitter function shows how they're aiming at allowing multi's for any of your plugins within one fader. I like that it doesn't clutter up my mixer with unnecessary faders unless I choose to have them.
> 
> For the sake of Kontakt, I find the "set it and forget it" method is best. Set up an instance of kontakt with 16 output channels, and route them properly. Save that as the default preset for Kontakt (with no instruments loaded) and then every time you open up Kontakt, your output channels will be ready. Since the midi channels automatically set with each instrument, all you have to do is change the output channel on the instrument for any of the ones you want a separate fader for. This way you don't have to fuss with anything, and you ahve control over when you want different faders or not.




I will defo set this up if I can...I'm pretty new to kontakt but an old hand at recording real instruments


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## Ozinga (Jul 30, 2020)

Al Maurice said:


> I would say that the notation features are most certainly welcome for simple note editing or entry tasks, even though they are quite basic. I find them useful for completing a quick spot check as I play the parts in.
> 
> Some areas for possible improvement: i). For instance if I would like to export my score in MusicXML format, I still need to import it to Notion in the usual way and carry that step from there.
> 
> ...



I ve read that if you mute the key switches on the piano roll they are not included with the midi file export.


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## Sunny Schramm (Jul 30, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> I have two hypotheses that might help explain why some people experience frequent crashes in any given DAW (including Studio One) while others don't. They would be time consuming and expensive to test, but I think they make sense intuitively.
> 
> (1) The longer it has been since the last time you reinstalled your operating system from scratch, the more frequently complex apps like DAWs will crash.
> 
> ...



Can not confirm this. My last completely new setup was with Windows XP SP3 - since then I upgraded online to Win7, Win8.1 and Win10. Never loose some personal data and no problems at all. I use my pc for music, internet and a lot of gaming BUT I keep my system clean with just ccleaner for registry-cleaning after I deinstall things. I also check my mydocuments folder for left behind folders and check every day for updates - for windows, programs, cst´s, games, etc. I install utility tools and just use windows defender...no other antivirus-tool. My OS and drives are fast as they should be - I also transfered my OS from hdd to ssd back then. All runs fine for about ten years now 🤷‍♂️


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