# Fed up with bs "jobs"



## _taylor (Jun 16, 2009)

Sorry for a little rant here, but all these composer "jobs" on mandy and craigslist are starting to really get under my skin.. maybe I should just not look on those sites anymore? lol

Like this gem of a ripoff.

"Music library company seeks talented composers.

Compensation:
$100 per 2-3 minute musical composition (with at least one more variation each).

Specifications/Requirements:
- Contracted as a “WORK FOR HIRE,” which is a buy-out of all rights including administration, ownership of the master, and copyright/publishing as well as the artist’s share.
- Produces music under an “all-in package deal,” which means the composer is responsible for all costs related with writing and recording the musical compositions.
- Must present a copy of the composer’s sessions (on Garage Band, Protools, etc.)

Starts immediately.

Please send resume and sample reel (or website link) to:"


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## JohnG (Jun 16, 2009)

you're right. This is shameful business practice and nobody should do this, even a beginner. This is the kind of horrible job that, as kid-surf points out, will lead only to more horrible jobs.


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## Reegs (Jun 16, 2009)

Wow.

Who the hell would bite on that? 

No rights, low pay, AND you have to book and record musicians on your own dime? Players + studio time > pay!! Bull. That's like telling the camera operator he needs to bring his own tape.

I want to see their rough cut.

BUT

You get the idea of the caliber they want when they speak of a garageband session file. There's nothing wrong with garageband, but still, it's garageband.


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## RiffWraith (Jun 16, 2009)

Yeah - saw that posting too. I actually answered, and sent an email to Sharon. Inserted the typical "hi how are you" and a link to my site, and then this:

If interested, maybe we can do business. Your terms are not acceptable, nor would they be to anyone who has any talent and experience, so here are my terms:

1. $800 per 2-3 minute musical composition, with an additional $450 per variation
2. Contracted as a “WORK FOR HIRE,” you may have the copyright/publishing rights, but I retain the writer's share and a copy of the master stays with me
3. Production of music under an “all-in package deal,” meaning all music will be created in my studio using any and all equipment at my disposal with no extra cost to you, however any additional costs, including but not limited to: live musicians, studio time, mic rental, etc., will be covered in full by you
4.Will present screenshot of the session, but will not provide actual session.

I am ready and able to start immediately. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions.

Let's see if she gets back to me. Prolly not. 8)


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## kid-surf (Jun 16, 2009)

My god are they generous...! 

I'm shocked anyone could place an ad like that without assuming they'd be struck dead by lightning the moment they clicked "send".

The upside, in my view, is that they'll attract the worst of the worst, whereby preoccupying them with this "gig".

The fact that these idiots pretend to have established a power position above composers is absurd (as if YOU need THEM). Good grief. Don't let these bottom feeders get you down, they do not stand between you and a decent gig. Use their idiocy as fuel to circumvent their breed. 

...That motivator really helped me stay focused (being patronized by folks I knew full well were not superior). Today I traded [calls] with HBO. I'm still a nobody, but at least HBO will call me back (not to mention other highly regarded industry folks when I call them or they call me). And, this afternoon, one of my scripts went to the exact director I hoped it would go to as I was writing it. 

That is not said to puff me up, it's merely to say that; the most important factor in your career trajectory is giving yourself "value". Whatever that may mean to you. Stick it to these bottom feeders!!! There are ways to swing WAY wide of them. I know what it feels like to want them out of your [mutha' fuckin] face. 8) 

Good luck!


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## videohlper (Jun 16, 2009)

Holy crap. That's got to be the worst deal memo ever. And I own a library. Whoever this library is, they sound like buttholes. 

Personally, I think everyone should send really low-signal (peak at -40 dB or so) recordings to them and at about :20 in or so BLAST THEM WITH 0dB level WHITE NOISE. 

You might not destroy the company, but hopefully you'll kill a few employees with weak hearts. Or at the very least force them to change their underwear.

Anarchy! Whooooo!

Stew


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## Waywyn (Jun 17, 2009)

spitt @ Wed Jun 17 said:


> Sorry for a little rant here, but all these composer "jobs" on mandy and craigslist are starting to really get under my skin.. maybe I should just not look on those sites anymore? lol
> 
> Like this gem of a ripoff.
> 
> ...



As a suggestion, I would say just stop on it.
If you think logically about all that and how it has been since ever.
You have to go out and get your work, noone brings it home to you .... unless of course you got a "big" name 

So I basically wanted to say, that all those "we offer you jobs" sites are not really what it should be. In the end everyone simply tries to make money, ... as those guys too!


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## _taylor (Jun 17, 2009)

videohlper @ Tue Jun 16 said:


> Holy crap. That's got to be the worst deal memo ever. And I own a library. Whoever this library is, they sound like buttholes.
> 
> Personally, I think everyone should send really low-signal (peak at -40 dB or so) recordings to them and at about :20 in or so BLAST THEM WITH 0dB level WHITE NOISE.
> 
> ...



! Best idea I've heard in a long time! :twisted: 

Waywyn - you're right, I'm going to stop checking those sites, if anything maybe every 6 months I see a decent gig, but 99.99% of the time I just get angry with the bs that gets posted. 

Kid- All around good advice! Hope you get the HBO gig! coool.

RiffWraith- Let us know if they respond, I would love to hear their response. :lol:


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## Waywyn (Jun 17, 2009)

RiffWraith @ Wed Jun 17 said:


> Yeah - saw that posting too. I actually answered, and sent an email to Sharon. Inserted the typical "hi how are you" and a link to my site, and then this:
> 
> If interested, maybe we can do business. Your terms are not acceptable, nor would they be to anyone who has any talent and experience, so here are my terms:
> 
> ...



Wish you good luck on that, but as you stated in your last words, probably it won't happen. The thing is, there are simply too many guys out there with a Cubase crack and a few downloaded libs (now they have 'em they obviously sound like Zimmer rightaway ) and plugs who would be even wiling only for credits sake.

.. but I hope or think those companies may not survive very long because as kid mentioned, the attract the worse of the worst!


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## johncarter (Jun 17, 2009)

In my opinion their price is low because there's simply too much demands in this market.

Look at all the music library on internet. KPM library, extreme music, etc.. There are thousands and thousands of music available. And lets be frank, only 20 or 30 % of KPM library at best, is actually used by TV channels , or by other production houses.

It's a difficult market. Music library cant buy one cue for 800 dollars, economically they cant. 

The offer and demand law as we say...

It's an almost dead market so i cant understand why people still try to make a living out of it.


I don't think it's the "young composers having a cracked cubase" who are responsible of that. Because when you listen a music composed by a guy who just got stylus and omnisphere and another guy who has at least 5 years of experience in music composing with computers, many years of music study... you feel the difference, and the producers also hear the difference , trust me.


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## Stephen Rees (Jun 17, 2009)

Good libraries will pay good money because they bank on their royalty earnings potential to cover the commercial terms of the deal and make them a decent profit. If someone doesn't give you a reasonable deal, it means either.........

a) They are trying to exploit you and maximise their own profits

and / or

b) They have no faith in their own royalty earning potential to cover a reasonable commercial deal with you

Neither of those possibilities is an attractive prospect so the best thing to do is walk away.

There are companies out their doing good respectful deals with composers who will earn you good money and treat you well. Support those companies who support and respect our profession and don't work with those that don't. I think that's the best way to try and create a long term sustainable business for everyone.

Stephen


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## videohlper (Jun 17, 2009)

johncarter @ Wed Jun 17 said:


> In my opinion their price is low because there's simply too much demands in this market.
> 
> Look at all the music library on internet. KPM library, extreme music, etc.. There are thousands and thousands of music available. And lets be frank, only 20 or 30 % of KPM library at best, is actually used by TV channels , or by other production houses.
> 
> ...



I disagree. The market isn't dead. Sure, it's dead for these small, soulless libraries that glut the market with Apple Loop/Acid/Stylus-laden tracks that take about twenty minutes to write. But being in the biz, I've noticed that the larger, more production-intensive libraries are flourishing. Even my small boutique-ish library is managing to stay alive -- and we're idiots.

In response, many major American networks have started to pare down their library collections, choosing to reduce their selection of 210+ different libraries down to about 10 to 15, thereby reducing the paperwork and confusion. They wouldn't do this if there weren't libraries out there filled with crap to "gum up the system" so to speak. So -- the library business isn't dead, as you say. But it's becoming unwieldy and overweight -- and Darwinian theory will most likely intercede.

But the ad that started this posting is what really makes me angry.

There's no reason AT ALL why a library needs to take your composer's royalties. Sure, they have to keep publisher's, sure, they can pay you a paltry fee for composition and keep sync fees -- if they find suckers to work for little return, let 'em do it. But when they essentially pay you $100 for a piece of music, how does that benefit the composer? You'd have to write five cuts a week just to survive (well, in NYC at least).

That's just wrong. And again, it fills the library business with useless crap that producers will just disregard and avoid in the future.

Stew


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## lux (Jun 17, 2009)

oh my didnt read that they take the composers' share. Well, sounds like something there should be no discussion about. I mean, i'm able too to post a craiglist announcement where i swap my soundfonts with vsl cube, but i doubt this will be object for discussion.

Simply this announcement is out of any standard. So it doesnt worth considering.


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## Christian Marcussen (Jun 17, 2009)

RiffWraith @ Tue Jun 16 said:


> Yeah - saw that posting too. I actually answered, and sent an email to Sharon. Inserted the typical "hi how are you" and a link to my site, and then this:
> 
> If interested, maybe we can do business. Your terms are not acceptable, nor would they be to anyone who has any talent and experience, so here are my terms:
> 
> ...



All power to you my friend. Good call. I wish they would get nothing but similar replys. Unfortunately not.


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## Farkle (Jun 17, 2009)

RiffWraith @ Tue Jun 16 said:


> Yeah - saw that posting too. I actually answered, and sent an email to Sharon. Inserted the typical "hi how are you" and a link to my site, and then this:
> 
> If interested, maybe we can do business. Your terms are not acceptable, nor would they be to anyone who has any talent and experience, so here are my terms:
> 
> ...



Not to set this up as a religious post at all... but _God Bless You_, Riff... 

Laying the smack down, 21st century style! Love it!

My quick and dirty horror story? Discovery Channel contacted me... 45 minutes, fully produced music, ready to be dropped in (i.e., no final mix on the editor's side), they keep publishing, they gave me 6(!) days....

$3000.

[email protected]#&^@*&$*#&$?!?!?!

Needless to say, I did not take the job. 

Mike


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## tomhartman (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm not sure they can hear the difference. I say that because I often have an agency slug in temp music that's just awful. But they will zero in on some stupid hi hat or something and say "We like that sound there..." Really....

I posted a question about Music Library work which no one has responded to yet, because I know nothing about it other than the fact that a composer friend mentioned knowing guys who are doing very well with it. How they are doing well with it at those rates must mean they are writing a lot of it, very fast.

Re the poster about the Discovery Channel, I have heard nothing but rants about cable shows and their budgets. It's like getting a job as a cameraman on CNN, and finding out you will get 200 a week, which I believe is close to what they make. There is no glamour to Cable, apparently ...

TH


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## rgames (Jun 17, 2009)

The bad news for everyone here is that I'm willing to bet $1000 that they got more responses than they could evaluate.

Sure, I'd never take the gig. But there are people who will work for nothing. There are even people who will PAY to have music placed somewhere. Anywhere. Of course they don't make a living at it...

But that's fine. It's a free market - the demand for music is far outpaced by the supply. And music is basically a commodity for most productions - they couldn't care less if a big-name composer wrote the background music for their commercial or if it's some kid in his bedroom.

Think of it this way: would you hire a professional landscaper to cut your grass for $200 if the neighbor kid does it to your level of satisfaction for $15? Of course not. The problem is that a lot of production music is happy with the $15 product from the kid. As long as that's the demand, the supply will follow.

We won't get anywhere trying to convice EACH OTHER that we should charge more. We need to convince our AUDIENCES that we are worth more. That, in turn, will put pressure on the production companes to demand higher quality music.

rgames


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