# Two orchestation books please tell differencies



## JPQ (Sep 15, 2010)

What is better in one of these books:
Alfred Blatter: Instrumentation and orchestration
Samuel Adler: Study of orchestration
ps. i cannot get both in my hands in same time if i dont buy both but i want know if i need both... actually i know some instruments are missing i think in Samuel Adlers book. and i mean all differencies not only orchestration differencies...


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## Ashermusic (Sep 15, 2010)

I would also recommend the Kent Kennan that I learned on,. It comes with a workbook and nowadays, also a CD.


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## om30tools (Sep 15, 2010)

Are you asking about Kennan, Kent. The Technique of Orchestration?

Like I said I haven't read it, but alot of people on this forum recommend it. Not sure why, sorry.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 15, 2010)

The Alexander Publishing books save you hundreds of hours of research because everything is organized in one place. 

Professional Orchestration Volume 1 corresponds to Adler, Blatter, and Kennan, but with a lot of differences, particularly this bundle which gives more and is about the same price as a single title from the others.

So you get a LOT more!
http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Products/Professional-Orchestration-Vol-1--Expanded-Basic-Home-Study-Bundle__AP-ProOrch-BasicStudyPkg.aspx (http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Prod ... dyPkg.aspx)

The other volumes are advanced works teaching what you don't get in a single semester at college. They have organized in ONE place the techniques used by Hollywood composers and orchestrators. 

Volume 2A focuses on 65 techniques for the string section including beginning divisi writing. 
http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Prod ... 67060.aspx

Volume 2B focuses on comparable techniques for the woodwinds and brass. 
http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Prod ... 67930.aspx

These three volumes combined are over 2000 pages of orchestration instruction and the PDF collection of all three books at $119.95 is only a few dollars more than a single copy of the Adler book and LESS than the Kennan book.

Hardly pricey!

Volume 3, which releases in 2011 is Orchestrating the Melody By Combining Sections which is advanced scoring. 

Volume 4A, which also releases in 2011, is Advanced Vertical Voicings in the String Section which details divisi writing and other techniques.


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## JPQ (Sep 15, 2010)

harvestthesouls @ Thu 16 Sep said:


> Are you asking about Kennan, Kent. The Technique of Orchestration?
> 
> Like I said I haven't read it, but alot of people on this forum recommend it. Not sure why, sorry.



Yes.


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## stonzthro (Sep 16, 2010)

Of the 2 you are asking about, I would go with Adler's. I found the Kennan CD's to be utterly useless, but the Adler to be quite interesting. If I were looking at buying only one, (and they didn't have to be strictly one of the two you mentioned) I would look at Peter's series very closely. 

Whichever book you get, it likely won't be your last so I don't think you can really go wrong with any of the major orchestration books.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 16, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Wed Sep 15 said:


> The Alexander Publishing books save you hundreds of hours of research because everything is organized in one place.
> 
> Professional Orchestration Volume 1 corresponds to Adler, Blatter, and Kennan, but with a lot of differences, particularly this bundle which gives more and is about the same price as a single title from the others.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a good deal to me.


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## JohnG (Sep 16, 2010)

Actually, if you buy both Adler's CDs and the book, I think it may be more than $120. Adler is excellent and I personally prefer it to Kennan, though others differ.

However, Peter's materials include a lot more scores and approaches orchestration very differently; more thorough and more like a working tool-kit than most books.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 16, 2010)

I have both and they are both excellent.
Adler's has the additional advantage to provide most of the examples listed in the book as audio tracks performed by a real orchestra (for an addional fee)
Blatter is maybe a little more detailled.

You can't go wrong with either of them and they will be a lifetime resource for you...


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 16, 2010)

The Cds for Adler are $120 alone + $87 for the book only + $25 for the workbook vs. The Professional Orchestration Basic Home Study for $99 which includes:

Book
Workbook
Audio
Spectratone Chart

The whole package from Adler is over $200.

The download package, which Adler does not have, is just over $70.

Also! 

We include courtesy of VSL, solo MP3s and midi files for each orchestral instrument so you can learn midi mockup techniques PER instrument.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 16, 2010)

One more point!

As a teacher I think it's very important for youbto get to live concerts becausevseeing/hearing teaches more, including mixing, then reading about it.

That's why in the past I've given links to YouTube broadcasts as well so you see string bowing in action.

See my current post on www.professionalorchestration.com as an example (Britten).


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 16, 2010)

harvestthesouls @ Wed Sep 15 said:


> Haven't read Kent's, but have Adler's book. Imo, I've noticed alot of orchestration books generally provide other general music theory/history/ontology. If you're a superlogical, super organised, ascetic, austere learner, you might prefer a book series like Peter Alexander's Prof Orchestration: http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Depa ... ation.aspx.
> Only editions 1 & 2a out of 8 are released.
> 
> Otherwise best bet seems to be kent.k.



1, 2A, and 2B are shipping which combined are over 2000 pages.

These cover the starting orchestration vocabulary needed to work professionally for solo instruments, soli sections, and orchestrating the melody and background lines in each section.


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## José Herring (Sep 16, 2010)

Imho, I've never trusted a book on orchestration that wasn't actually written by a working composer. 

My first orchestration book that I learned in school was Kent Kennan's book and work book. I learned precious little about orchestration. I've looked at the Adler book and it took the same approach to orchestration that Kennan took which imo is overly pedantic. Even more pedantic but good is Forsyth's orchestration book.

But, I truly learned most of my orchestration from Rimsky Korsakov's book.  Also, Berlioz Strauss orchestration book is excellent. Mind you it took me years to understand most of it, but once you do it's a gem.

And as a plug to Peter Alexander's courses I think that the Rimsky Korsakov course would be invaluable to somebody studying orchestration for the first time.

Not saying that Kennan and Adler wouldn't help. I believe they would. I just never got from Kennan any of the reasons why a composer made certain creative choices though he does a great job at teaching what a composer did to create certain orchestral effects.

my 2c


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## JPQ (Sep 16, 2010)

in these alexander homestudy set any info about sections in here ? any info which is needed what is not needed with solo sounds. one info at least needed how big string section is balanced well with trumpet section etc...


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## JPQ (Sep 16, 2010)

ja what is spectratone chart?


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 16, 2010)

JPQ @ Thu Sep 16 said:


> in these alexander homestudy set any info about sections in here ? any info which is needed what is not needed with solo sounds. one info at least needed how big string section is balanced well with trumpet section etc...



The home study course is comparable to the first semester of a college class and the "Basic" package is the one we market to colleges because it saves students over $115 compared to either of the Adler or Kennan packages/workbooks. So that's the one that competes directly with the Adler and Kennan.

Several of your questions I also covered in the LASS Class vids online.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 16, 2010)

JPQ @ Thu Sep 16 said:


> ja what is spectratone chart?



http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/studyhall.aspx

Under Learning Orchestration, watch the one labeled Instrumentation.

Also:
http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Products/Spectrotone-Chart-Download__Spec-01-Download.aspx (http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Prod ... nload.aspx)


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 16, 2010)

As a general note regarding "orchestration" books, please keep the following in mind. 

In the United States, orchestration as a class (not seminar) is only taught in 4 year schools during the Senior year. According to the guidelines set for music school accreditation by all four regional Association of Colleges and Schools, orchestration is designed as a one semester 2 credit hour class at the end of which the student is required to write a full orchestral work. 

I addressed this to music school faculty in my white paper, How Much Orchestration Can You Really Teach in One Semester.
http://www.professionalorchestration.co ... estration/

The answer is: none really. 

As I've pointed out over the years, all of the so called orchestration books are just instrumentation books. Adler, Blatter and Kennan are competitors at the college level for this one class. 

Consequently the heavy focus of these books is instrumentation. 

If you watch the Learning Orchestration vids I posted, you'll know that this is only the starting gate.

To genuinely learn orchestration, you have to learn how to study a score. There's no way around it. You can learn certain tricks and devices if you don't read, but to really learn orchestration requires score reading and concert going to hear the score live. CDs, MP3s, YouTube, are great aids, but cannot replace hearing the work live. 

To score read is to learn how to study a score, which is what we teach in Professional Orchestration with what I call the 8 Keys to Learning Professional Orchestration. Once you've learned the 8 keys, you have a starting series of techniques to learn how to approach and study the score, and to learn the "why" a composer did something. 

A textbook designed for a one semester class cannot tell you why a composer did anything. 

Sorry.

And again, all three major texts are designed for the one semester, including the workbooks which give you a smattering of sectional scoring, but not much.

With this, one must also learn dynamic equivalents which I go into detail with starting with Booklet 2 for the Spectratone Chart. I also included a number of setups with suggested string and brass configs based on actual performance work. 

I expanded this with my LASS Class vids, too, which demonstrate how many brass with what sized string section. 

The only books that genuinely cover orchestration, are the Professional Orchestration Series, How Ravel Orchestrated: MOther Goose Suite, and Professional Orchestration: A Practical Handbook. Each Handbook is advanced work and takes a semester (3 months) to complete. 

Beyond that, the BEST orchestration books ever written were done by Charles Koechlin, 4 volumes in Classical French (never translated into English), and cost $150 each. I have all four.

The best version of the Berlioz is the English translation of the original found at books.google.com but this must be read to an eye that musicianship has improved drastically over the past 200 years, and that what Berlioz wrote were instrumentation notes, which is what I have in Professional Orchestration Volume 1.

Outside of the 1 semester class, occasionally there's a second semester for strings which I have covered in Professional Orchestration 2A. 

Otherwise, all orchestration is learned outside the classroom, on the streets, via self study, which is why I take the teaching approach I do, and rarer, via mentoring when you can find a really experienced orchestrator who can teach and will take on students.


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## JPQ (Sep 17, 2010)

is these downloads available if i buy books elsewhere for example form local book store ?


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## JPQ (Sep 17, 2010)

in last post i mean alexander publishing books.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 17, 2010)

JPQ @ Fri Sep 17 said:


> in last post i mean alexander publishing books.



Either way.


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## jsaras (Sep 17, 2010)

For the "North Hollywood" composer ;-D, you can't beat the free Rimsky-Korsakov course at garritan.com. Some may call it "dated" but the additional comments by Prof. Belkin on the website take care of that limitation. I also bought the paperback version of the book for $20 so that I could highlight it, mark it up, etc.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 17, 2010)

jsaras @ Fri Sep 17 said:


> For the "North Hollywood" composer ;-D, you can't beat the free Rimsky-Korsakov course at garritan.com. Some may call it "dated" but the additional comments by Prof. Belkin on the website take care of that limitation. I also bought the paperback version of the book for $20 so that I could highlight it, mark it up, etc.



The Rimsky material itself is not dated, and it's first origin was by Francois Auguste Geveart in his book on orchestration which was written when Rimsky-Korsakov was still a teenager. 

The Professional Orchestration material is updated and expanded from the original Rimsky book, including the addition of instrumentation notes, and audio recordings of live orchestra.


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## JPQ (Sep 18, 2010)

Why is Alexander publishing (i hope wrote it correctly) book is better than others ? now we forget price point but all other differencies i want know.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 18, 2010)

JPQ @ Sat Sep 18 said:


> Why is Alexander publishing (i hope wrote it correctly) book is better than others ? now we forget price point but all other differencies i want know.



It's not one book, it's a series called Professional Orchestration which is the first multi-volume series in English, the only other one being in classical French by Charles Koechlin.

The series is organized by the 8 Keys of Learning Professional Orchestration and organized with examples in the low, medium, high, and very high registers for each instrument, section, and combined sections.

Professional Orchestration is the first orchestration series to come out of the Hollywood scoring stages. Instrumentation notes in v1 were edited by the top musicians in Sandy DeCrescent's orchestra which was used by Jerry Goldsmith, and still used by many top players. 

The organizational approach came from input from John Williams' orchestrator, the late Herb Spenser (Raiders, Star Wars, etc).

Volume 1 - Solo Instruments and Instrumentation Notes (shipping)
Volume 2A - Orchestrating the Melody Within the String Section (shipping)
Volume 2B - Orchestrating the Melody Within the Woodwinds and Brass (shipping)
Volume 3 - Orchestrating the Melody by Combining Orchestral Sections (2011)
Volume 4A - Advanced String Ensemble Writing Including Divisi (2011)
Volume 4B - Advanced Woodwinds and Brass Ensemble Writing (2012)

Alexander Publishing also has Professional Orchestration: A Practical Handbook written by composer/conductor Joseph Wagner. This is an advanced requiring three months to complete each section:

From Piano to Strings
From Piano to Woodwinds
From Piano to Orchestra

Alexander Publishing has the first book assessing the orchestration techniques of Maurice Ravel with _How Ravel Orchestrated: Mother Goose Suite_.

We publish the Strings Position Handbook.

We publish the Spectrotone Chart, created by 4x Academy Award nominee for best composer, Arthur Lange, who was also a founding member of the Santa Monica Symphony Orchestra. 

We run online orchestration classes with attendance restricted to 6 members in which you write a 2-minute composition for each solo instrument approximately every 10 days.

For more details please visit http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Depa ... ation.aspx

We support skill with music business training via Marketing Your Music and You, an 11-hour class with both video and audio lessons.

We'll soon be supporting our orchestration instruction with the revision of our Hit Sound Recording Course.


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## Narval (Sep 19, 2010)

Go to the music store, take those two books in your hands, turn all the pages, and make your decision. That's what I did, it took me 15 minutes, and my decision was easy: Blatter.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 19, 2010)

Narval @ Sun Sep 19 said:


> Go to the music store, take those two books in your hands, turn all the pages, and make your decision. That's what I did, it took me 15 minutes, and my decision was easy: Blatter.



If Blatter fits your needs, that's fine. It's a college text, and it's focus is on instrumentation. I have it. 

By its name, the focus of the Professional Orchestration series is _orchestration_ and is a _multivolume_ set, not a single title. 

Additionally, because ALL of the books discussed here (excluding the original Rimsky) are college textbooks, they rarely make their appearance in either music stores or book stores since college bookstore discounts are much smaller than discounts for traditional bookstores. 

Professional Orchestration Volume 1 covers a great deal of what's in the Blatter book but from a different perspective, while at the same also instructing in orchestration and compositional issues for solo instruments and soli lines.


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