# Piano Concerto No 1 in G minor - Rough Mix 1 - Feedback Appreciated - Thank you



## sizzler52

Hi All
This is the first movt of a Piano Concerto I wrote some time back but now with better knowledge etc have re-worked it and am just at the mixing and mastering stage.
here's the first cut. Feedback and criticism would be appreciated. Thank you

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F102989265&secret_url=false[/flash]


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## jamwerks

Hi, some very nice writing in there. Just one comment on the mix: the piano doesn't seem to be in the same room as the orchestra. Ok to close mic it as you've done, but some piano ambience in the hall would help.


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## sizzler52

Hi Thanks that's helpful. I had more on the piano until earlier today when I think perhaps my ears tired a little and I took some out as I thought it sounded too much. probably right in the first place.
Thank you for your comments.


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## DanielBeijbom

Very impressive writing Andy! Sounds great. One small thing...The orchestra does sometimes sound a bit stiff. Perhaps you could work more on the dynamics. However it is a 7 minute piece...so that might take a while 


Other than that, great work.


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## lumcas

Depends on what is your aim - if just a mockup then ok, but first thing that really struck my ear was a very wide stereo image of the piano and left-right reversed on top - I find it very distracting, because you're mixing player's perspective with the piano and audience perspective with the rest of the orchestra. If you're trying to imitate real recording and stage positioning high register should appear on the left side of a stereobase and bass on the right and the stereo image should be much more narrow - just compare the size of a piano to a size of a whole orchestra. I'd suggest to take a listen to some good recordings of a real thing. But other than that, some nice writing can be found in your piece, that's for sure!


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## re-peat

jamwerks @ Sun Jul 28 said:


> Hi, some very nice writing in there. (...)


Where then? I didn’t hear it, I must say. The overriding thought I had throughout the entire movement was that, if you were to ask Band-In-A-Box to spit out a pianoconcerto-like piece, it would probably come out more or less sounding like this. A collection of generic figures ― all conventional, unadventurous and safe ―, tried-and-tested formulae (with all the obvious and predictable references to “the pianoconcerto idiom” as defined by the great works in the repertoire), but completely lacking in anything personal or inspired that could inject some life and purpose into this piece and tell us something about the composer. Bar after bar after bar of anonymous writing. That’s what I hear. Sorry. 
And an additional (and inevitable) problem with this type of writing is, that the piece is also completely without any structural interest, there’s never any tension (and therefore no resolution either). Things just happen, from one section to the next, and you never get that sense of the music moving forward towards its logical conclusion. 

Apart from that, the pianopart is also rather unpianistically written, I find. 80% of the time both hands appear to be moving in exact parrallel motion, which gets tiresome very quickly.

Mock-up technically-speaking, there’s also a couple of things that could benefit from a bit more attention, but that bothers me far less than the near total absence of music (and personality) in this music.

_


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## SimonCharlesHanna

re-peat @ Mon 29 Jul said:


> jamwerks @ Sun Jul 28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, some very nice writing in there. (...)
> 
> 
> 
> Where then? I didn’t hear it, I must say. The overriding thought I had throughout the entire movement was that, if you were to ask Band-In-A-Box to spit out a pianoconcerto-like piece, it would probably come out more or less sounding like this. A collection of generic figures ― all conventional, unadventurous and safe ―, tried-and-tested formulae (with all the obvious and predictable references to “the pianoconcerto idiom” as defined by the great works in the repertoire), but completely lacking in anything personal or inspired that could inject some life and purpose into this piece and tell us something about the composer. Bar after bar after bar of anonymous writing. That’s what I hear. Sorry.
> And an additional (and inevitable) problem with this type of writing is, that the piece is also completely without any structural interest, there’s never any tension (and therefore no resolve either). Things just happen, from one section to the next, and you never get that sense of the music moving forward towards its logical conclusion.
> 
> Apart from that, the pianopart is also rather unpianistically written, I find. 80% of the time both hands appear to be moving in exact parrallel motion, which gets tiresome very quickly.
> 
> Mock-up technically, there’s also a couple of things that could benefit from a bit more attention, but that bothers me far less than the near total absence of music (and personality) in this music.
> 
> _
Click to expand...


Repeat - you should be slightly more considerate of peoples feelings. Your criticism is profound but i'm sure you could present it in a more tactful fashion. You could say one harsh thing to someone and it may make them feel like giving up - does that make you feel good?


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## re-peat

Simon,

I don't do this to feel good, I do this simply in the hope that the addressee might reflect on it, and maybe do something with it.

Even before pressing the submit-button after typing my previous post, I knew I had to prepare myself for someone taking issue. It's happened before. "Musicians helping musicians", this forum's motto, only seems to apply as long as we restrict ourselves, pseudo-politely, to sheepishly and ignorantly applauding each other's efforts — no matter the quality or lack thereof — or limit our so-called 'constructive' comments to superficialties concerning the amount of reverb or the sound of the bloody strings, doesn't it? 
Well, excuse me, but I don't subscribe to such sillyness.

If someone presents a movement of a pianoconcerto (or any other piece of assumed substance) to his/her fellow musicians — please note: not to his/her family or friends, but to a community of fellow musicians — and asks for feedback, the matter, I believe, deserves more honest attention and scrutiny than mere hollow applause which is, let's not fool ourselves, of no real benefit to anyone or anything.

I'm of the opinion — and forgive for believing that music is important enough to be passionate, direct, honest and very serious about it — that the composer is better served with my words, blunt and unkind as they may seem at first, than with a series of meaningless "Wow, great writing!"-comments.

And I am sorry, but the writing isn't great. And if the composer is truly serious about his/her music — and attempting a full-scale pianoconcerto does at least suggest the presence of a certain commitment, it seems to me —, he or she should also be strong enough to see things spelled out the way they are. 
If not, then so be it. In which case, all of this will have been a complete waste of time anyway.

Okay, I might have made the extra effort to find a way of trying to formulate things in a more considerate, tactfull manner, yes, but why? Right now, my words may seem harsh and inappropriate, I'm very much aware of it, but tomorrow, after the initial sting has faded, they'll hopefully help the composer find the concentration, the desire and the courage to do better. 
(And yes, that is very pretentious and patronizing of me. I know. But served with the best of intentions.)

_


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## nikolas

Piet, you continue to be un-tactful in many occasions. And you know perfectly well how much I value your own music! 

HOWEVER, in this case (and in most cases) I find that you're simply speaking the truth (as you perceive it) with no sugar coating or anything else. Which _should_ be fine, but it's difficult...

A concerto, from someone _somewhat_ untrained seems like a daunting task, and I think that it is. So apart from taking into account the music itself (which isn't for sale, or promoted that way) I think that one should also be aware of why the OP is posting in the first place, and take that into consideration.

If this was a commercial CD, I would thunder down my (any) disagreements and have no problem with it. If someone comes to me for anything commercial I've done I HAVE TO accept it (even if I don't like it). I will defend it, I will explain, but none the less I'm force to accept that the audience have their own mind!

____________________________

Onto the piece it self....

I'm afraid that I will agree. I've heard up to 5:39 so far (so 4/5 of the work, and keep listening) and while the ideas are there, the actual piano movement is almost monophonic in most cases, and the orchestration is... lacking, I'm sorry to say. 

It's impossible to provide feedback on what to do to correct this, but the main impression one gets is of an orchestra that is sub-standard even for a piano concerto (like Chopin, who does get accused for both his piano concertos) and the piano writing which has no polyphony, little harmony, and mainly IS moving in parallel motion and almost monophonic in a lot of cases... :-/

It's impossible to tell a composer "what to do" and it would be insulting to do so, I believe. So... here we are... 

Patronizing? I guess so, but in all honesty, why not? Is there any sign of a bad feeling from me to the OP? Or an insulting moment? Or anything that should actually, and truthfully bother the OP? I think not...

__________________________

Tiny moment on piano concertos:

Generally speaking a piano concerto should be able to stand on its own (with no orchestra), due to practical reasons (you don't have an orchestra handy to practice it while studying it). in this instance this is very much done in this case!

However, there's an ingredient missing: Interesting piano writing. And it IS a piano concerto! 

I honestly hope that the OP won't mind. I just found little to nothing wrong with what Piet said (apart perhaps for a rephrasing of a couple of sentences, but even that... would be a tiny bit too much).


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## Arbee

Using a term like "Piano Concerto No 1 in G minor" in a forum of this kind is a dangerous pursuit, as it sets very high expectation which will inevitably attract "tough love" like a magnet. Feedback is feedback and it's up to the OP of course from there.


.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

re-peat @ Mon 29 Jul said:


> Simon,
> 
> I don't do this to feel good, I do this simply in the hope that the addressee might reflect on it, and maybe do something with it.
> 
> Even before pressing the submit-button after typing my previous post, I knew I had to prepare myself for someone taking issue. It's happened before. "Musicians helping musicians", this forum's motto, only seems to apply as long as we restrict ourselves, pseudo-politely, to sheepishly and ignorantly applauding each other's efforts — no matter the quality or lack thereof — or limit our so-called 'constructive' comments to superficialties concerning the amount of reverb or the sound of the bloody strings, doesn't it?
> Well, excuse me, but I don't subscribe to such sillyness.
> 
> If someone presents a movement of a pianoconcerto (or any other piece of assumed substance) to his/her fellow musicians — please note: not to his/her family or friends, but to a community of fellow musicians — and asks for feedback, the matter, I believe, deserves more honest attention and scrutiny than mere hollow applause which is, let's not fool ourselves, of no real benefit to anyone or anything.
> 
> I'm of the opinion — and forgive for believing that music is important enough to be passionate, direct, honest and very serious about it — that the composer is better served with my words, blunt and unkind as they may seem at first, than with a series of meaningless "Wow, great writing!"-comments.
> 
> And I am sorry, but the writing isn't great. And if the composer is truly serious about his/her music — and attempting a full-scale pianoconcerto does at least suggest the presence of a certain commitment, it seems to me —, he or she should also be strong enough to see things spelled out the way they are.
> If not, then so be it. In which case, all of this will have been a complete waste of time anyway.
> 
> Okay, I might have made the extra effort to find a way of trying to formulate things in a more considerate, tactfull manner, yes, but why? Right now, my words may seem harsh and inappropriate, I'm very much aware of it, but tomorrow, after the initial sting has faded, they'll hopefully help the composer find the concentration, the desire and the courage to do better.
> (And yes, that is very pretentious and patronizing of me. I know. But served with the best of intentions.)
> 
> _



I am not saying that you shouldn't be honest with someone but look at this....

"Hey, look you have some interesting ideas but I think you need to work on your voice a bit more - perhaps develop more solid sense of structure etc. "
vs
"This doesn't sound like real music. It has no soul. It's crap. you're crap. There's no good bits"

Speaking is an art in and of itself.


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## DanielBeijbom

> I am not saying that you shouldn't be honest with someone but look at this....
> 
> "Hey, look you have some interesting ideas but I think you need to work on your voice a bit more - perhaps develop more solid sense of structure etc. "
> vs
> "This doesn't sound like real music. It has no soul. It's crap. you're crap. There's no good bits"




+1


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## re-peat

SimonCharlesHanna @ Mon Jul 29 said:


> Speaking is an art in and of itself.


Reading as well, Simon. And an art which, if I’m permitted to say so, you apparently don’t master yet, seeing how you reduce my original post to a banality of insulting vulgarity.

Furthermore, _I didn’t hear any interesting ideas_, so why, I ask, would I ever want to say “Hey, look, you have some interesting ideas …”? Why? 
Neither the art of speaking, as you say, and certainly not the art of musicians helping one another, and not even the art of being tactful and civil, would be practised with any integrity and sincerity if I were to follow your hypocritical suggestions.

_


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## SimonCharlesHanna

re-peat @ Mon 29 Jul said:


> SimonCharlesHanna @ Mon Jul 29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking is an art in and of itself.
> 
> 
> 
> Reading as well, Simon. And an art which, if I’m permitted to say so, you apparently don’t master yet, seeing how you reduce my original post to a banality of insulting vulgarity.
> 
> Furthermore, _I didn’t hear any interesting ideas_, so why, I ask, would I ever want to say “Hey, look, you have some interesting ideas …”? Why?
> The art of speaking, as you say, and certainly the art of musicians helping one another, and even the art of being tactful and civil, would not practised with any integrity and sincerity if I were to follow your hypocritical suggestions.
> 
> _
Click to expand...


I was giving an example. And you think you have to put people down in the cruelest way to help them? Are you serious? Get some sense. 

You're just rude and arrogant.

Oh and I find it interesting that you had to put down my reading skills too - it's like you can't help yourself, you just have to attack everything around you.


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## re-peat

SimonCharlesHanna @ Mon Jul 29 said:


> (...) You're just rude and arrogant. (...)


Arrogant, yes. Totally. Irredeemably so, I’m afraid. But rude? I don’t think so. It’s a wide-spread misconception around these parts that if one speaks as I tend to do, that one is unacceptably rude, I know, but I don’t agree. I find it far ruder ― far, far ruder ― to comment on music in a shallow, ignorant and stupid manner as exhibited in the first few replies of this thread.

It might have happened before your arrival here, Simon, I don’t know, but I used to post music of mine here in this section of the forum quite frequently. (As it happens, often concerto-like pieces for piano and mock-orchestra, not entirely unlike the one this thread started with. But better.) 
You know why I stopped doing that? Because everybody always said how great the music was. I can’t begin to tell you how I longed for someone like myself, to come along and expose the mediocrity and problems of my writing with merciless candour and insightful precision. That would have helped. That’s what I wanted. But it never came. Only meaningless, stupid, silly applause. (The only one who ever dared to venture beyond that, and say something intelligently critical, was Nikolas, for which I’m still grateful.)

_


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## SimonCharlesHanna

re-peat @ Tue 30 Jul said:


> SimonCharlesHanna @ Mon Jul 29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> (...) You're just rude and arrogant. (...)
> 
> 
> 
> Arrogant, yes. Totally. Irredeemably so, I’m afraid. But rude? I don’t think so. It’s a wide-spread misconception around these parts that if one speaks as I tend to do, that one is unacceptably rude, I know, but I don’t agree. I find it far ruder ― far, far ruder ― to comment on music in a shallow, ignorant and stupid manner as exhibited in the first few replies of this thread.
> 
> It might have happened before your arrival here, Simon, I don’t know, but I used to post music of mine here in this section of the forum quite frequently. (As it happens, often concerto-like pieces for piano and mock-orchestra, not entirely unlike the one this thread started with. But better.)
> You know why I stopped doing that? Because everybody always said how great the music was. I can’t begin to tell you how I longed for someone like myself, to come along and expose the mediocrity and problems of my writing with merciless candour and insightful precision. That would have helped. That’s what I wanted. But it never came. Only meaningless, stupid, silly applause. (The only one who ever dared to venture beyond that, and say something intelligently critical, was Nikolas, for which I’m still grateful.)
> 
> _
Click to expand...


Well with your harsh comments you should offer up some HELPFUL suggestions. 

I understand now and I guess in a way I am not as upset - not because of your dramatic soliloquy-like explanation, but because I can see what kind of person you really are. In fact, you remind me of my tutor.


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## nikolas

Simon: One thing to keep in mind. No matter how rude you find Piet to be, he NEVER (in this thread) made a personal comment like "you're crap" which you attribute to him. So, not as narrow as you perceive it to be, I think.

Anyhow... I need to get back to copying... :-/


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## SimonCharlesHanna

nikolas @ Tue 30 Jul said:


> Simon: One thing to keep in mind. No matter how rude you find Piet to be, he NEVER (in this thread) made a personal comment like "you're crap" which you attribute to him. So, not as narrow as you perceive it to be, I think.
> 
> Anyhow... I need to get back to copying... :-/



I was being dramatic to prove a point...How did this get lost?


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## Markus Kohlprath

I would say there are three possibilities to react to feedbacks in general and this one in specific.
1.You can blame the one taking the time to listen to your work and thinking he does not know what he is talking about or is not polite enough and go on without consequences on what you do further.

2. You can get extremely disappointed,even depressed, think about and maybe even going so far to stop making music because you think your skills will never reach an acceptable level that makes sense to go on.

3.Listen to what is said, learn from it and appreciate that there is somebody who takes time to listen and gives an honest opinion. In my experience this is not so often the case. It´s not easy for most people to say what he or she thinks. Where is the benefit of getting a "nice music...." command and most of the other guys think by themself "Oh god, what is this?....." ? 

I think only if one has the strength to react in the no.3 way he can be sure that music is the right thing to do in his life. Otherwise it can become a psychological nightmare and there will hardly be any serious success.
It´s not that easy to make music of value. Even to recognize it and make a judgement of value is not that easy sometimes. I think almost everybody have to make this experience.
(hope my english expresses well enough what I mean. It´s a very sensible topic...)

cheers
Markus


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## sizzler52

First of all, thank you all for your comments and for the support shown following the comments by re-peat.
I value all comments essentially as these are the people who will hear our music. 

If, 're-peat' you are unable to express yourself with anything other than a Neanderthal intelligence and so poorly developed social skills, I have to appreciate that there will always be those in society who are less fortunate than many of us and indeed they also have ears (I'm assuming if course that you do?) and will listen our music too. Whilst I appreciate how difficult it must be for such a socially compromised individual to intelligently criticize I'd like to recommend for you a book to hope you can learn to improve and grow ......... 'Zen and the Art of Constructive Criticism' by Erin Dorney. I do believe they do a large print version and a talking book, you may find either helpful.

Thank you to the others who have commented more constructively, I will take these away and think carefully as I complete the second and third movements.
Kind regards


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## rayinstirling

Andy,
You do yourself a disservice by replying to Piet in this way. I knew eventually a better ear than mine would say what I did a few years ago. It's no big DEAL. Do you like what I did there.
Ray


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## Arbee

Amongst the outcry to re-peat's dry manner, arrogance whatever are some very sound learning opportunities, e.g.



re-peat @ Mon Jul 29 said:


> ....there’s never any tension (and therefore no resolution either). Things just happen, from one section to the next, and you never get that sense of the music moving forward towards its logical conclusion.
> 
> Apart from that, the pianopart is also rather unpianistically written, I find. 80% of the time both hands appear to be moving in exact parrallel motion...


While I appreciate the claim is to be a piano concerto, I also feel the piano is playing an unscored orchestra part in several places.

You can call re-peat many things but "Neanderthal intelligence"?! Hmm.. I don't think so.

.


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## sizzler52

Thank you Arbee I totally agree that there are always learning opportunities and it is very helpful to have comment and criticism from Piet. It is just unfortunate when it is totally lost within an un-necessary diatribe which does nothing to enhance or lend credibility to the critique


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## jlb

Andy,
I hope you don't take some of the comments made too seriously. I think to attempt a piano concerto takes some guts, I could not pull it off myself. Even songwriters like Billy Joel, McCartney their classical stuff is not that good. I do think you need some stronger ideas in there. One or two good ideas is better than dozens of weaker ones. It doesn't capture your attention, after a few minutes you drift off. Write a beautiful second movement and make people eat humble pie.

JLB


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## Guy Bacos

Ok, I didn't have the intention of commenting, rather leave that to others, lack of time these days. I find it disgraceful how some musicians seems to enjoy just focusing on the negative and not even being constructive. First thing, I must congratulate accomplishing an entire piece, concerto "like", as for re-peat, he seems to struggle very much figuring out a middle or end section for 95% of his pieces despite his qualities and abilities (which I can appreciate). So in my book, this is a big plus for "accomplishment". Secondly, yes, there are weaknesses, and some may also be of personal taste, the main one for me is the freezing cold piano interpretation, looks quite quantized. However, this did not stop me from enjoying the fun writing in this piece, a lot of good lively ideas, in fact one of the funnest pieces I've heard on this forum. I think if the piano was much looser, it would already change a lot in the perception of most. Now, I'm a pianist, and I have no problem with the piano writing, it's written that way because that's the style the composer wanted, it doesn't always have to be what you would "expect", maybe some people think too much while listening. Anyway, I would work mostly on loosening up the piano, or get a pianist to play the piano part, even if it's played slower and then sped up, at least it won't be quantized and it will sound a lot fresher.


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## Gusfmm

Andy- as a suggestion, and of course you do with it whatever you please: chew and extract the concentrate from the pulp, as opposed to caring so much about the pulp being ugly to look at and rough in the mouth. 

To me, a single comment that BTW sounded in a serious constructive spirit IMO, such as



re-peat @ Mon Jul 29 said:


> And an additional (and inevitable) problem with this type of writing is, that the piece is also completely without any structural interest, there’s never any tension (and therefore no resolution either). Things just happen, from one section to the next, and you never get that sense of the music moving forward towards its logical conclusion.



is worth tons more than 100 people exhibiting their best social skills and telling you: "nice job, I liked it". 

You can see this is a forum comprised by an ever growing vast diversity of musicians at all levels. After a while, you learn a bit about personalities and quality of *content*, who you may want to care about and who you may want to dismiss. And you adapt. And those times when you get involved, you've got to put on your thickest skin. Cause in the end, it's only that concentrate that matters, that makes you grow, that keeps you seeking for the better. Not the fluff.


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## Guy Bacos

It's worth that much ONLY if it's worded in a constructive way. It's bullshit to say you need to have a thick skin, getting cliché...some do and some don't, so why not make an effort to say things in a way to not discourage anyone, before he says, "the hec with it, I'm giving it all up!". It's always interesting that none of the big guys, Zimmer and company would give such negative comments. Could it be only the envies ones have the need to destroy others?


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## nikolas

Guy Bacos @ Tue Jul 30 said:


> It's worth that much ONLY if it's worded in a constructive way. It's [email protected]#t to say you need to have a thick skin, getting cliché...some do and some don't, so why not make an effort to say things in a way to not discourage anyone, before he says, "the hec with it, I'm giving it all up!". It's always interesting that none of the big guys, Zimmer and company would give such negative comments. Could it be only the envies ones have the need to destroy others?


Just wait a minute here...

I hope you know that generally speaking I try to be positive and not to ruin anyone's life, but in all honesty...

1. No matter what one says, if you go public, you go public! That's the deal. And remember that right here, there's mods and admins who adore this place and not youtube! If you want to give something out to the public, you need to be prepared for anything!

2. Thick skin, etc... Yes, you can develop thick skin. Especially through the internet, which is non real time (forums and even facebook). You can take out what's useful in a post and what not, even if someone says "It's bullshit", because they are giving you their honest opinion about it. If too many people go the "bullshit" way, then something seems to be wrong with what you're offering. Thus, instead of thinking that the whole world are arses, one could be thinking about what's wrong with their offering!

3. Like hell a forum poster is responsible for someone giving up! You're kidding on this one, right? No matter what I say, or however it is perceived, if you give up it's your call and your fault! 

4. About the big guys. How do you know? Because they don't talk much? (Zimmer actually does! :D). What about thinking it this way about the big guys: They are awesome and yet they get SO MUCH BASHING FROM ANYONE. Do you think they will quit their careers because of an Internet poster, or anything? If they want, they can take a hint (should they choose to do so), but generally speaking, they don't care, or at least they don't show it... 

I mean really... Simon here got some bad words from Piet. (which in all honesty weren't really bad words. Just an honest opinion on a work of music). Can you imagine Williams replying to all the hate he's getting like Simon did? LOL! Simon never got youtube vids about a comparison on his music vs Stravinsky, Prokofiev, etc...  Simple as that! 

5. Finally. "Destroy"?!?!? Again... you're kidding. Did you actually read Piet's post?


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## Guy Bacos

Nikolas, you can rationalize all you want, it's doesn't change the stink of his original post. I showed it to wife and she thought it was extremely rude. So that's 2 of us who thinks that way, maybe others think differently, I guess I can't represent others, so I'll stick to my 2 cents. Nikolas, I was also not referring to you, BTW. As far as Zimmer, I'm sure he can get critical sometimes, but I have seen him as a real gentleman and talks in a constructive way every post I've seen of him here and in our pm.


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## nikolas

Guy, I know you were not talking about me. no misunderstanding there...  I'm kinda "defending" Piet (not that he needs that in any case... but...)


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## Guy Bacos

nikolas @ Tue Jul 30 said:


> 3. Like hell a forum poster is responsible for someone giving up! You're kidding on this one, right? No matter what I say, or however it is perceived, if you give up it's your call and your fault!



I can't agree on that one. That's a cheap cop out. We are all responsible (in some small way for the actions of others, but please, don't go nuts with that). If I can play a small part in helping someone who I think is worth the effort, I will. But I don't want to think I might of played a small role in any discouragement of him. I always try to imagine if it was myself getting those comments, and as long as I witness such harsh one sided comments, I will defend the other person if I find reason to do so.


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## nikolas

Well yes, but you mentioned giving up... I understand encouragement and the opposite side, but that's a bit too far, no? That's my complaint... 

In any case, I need to bow out on this one... We've had enough to talk about and I do wish that Andy will grab on the things he thinks are worth and use them to his benefit.

PS. For some reason I thought that Simon was the OP, but his name is Andy after all! heh...


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## Gusfmm

Guy, the proof is in the pudding. You decide whether or not continuing getting lost in the fluff. 



Guy Bacos @ Tue Jul 30 said:


> . It's *bullshit* to say you need to have a thick skin,



I'm curious as of what your wife thinks about the above, and how that relates to my previous comment.


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## Guy Bacos

To be 100% clear, I was only being critical to that negative post of re-peat, despite he may think it's the best medication you need and the only way you will learn. I understand the others were trying to sort of moderate his comments, trying to be more positive. So no problems with the others. Not sure if I answered.


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## KEnK

sizzler52 @ Mon Jul 29 said:


> ...If, 're-peat' you are unable to express yourself with anything other than a Neanderthal intelligence and so poorly developed social skills, I have to appreciate that there will always be those in society who are less fortunate than many of us and indeed they also have ears (I'm assuming if course that you do?) and will listen our music too...


Andy-

Re-peat is one of the most knowledgeable and venerated posters on this board. 
His is also one of the more frank and controversial voices.
That he took the time to so completely dismiss your work is a kind of complement in itself.
If you can read through his post, he's actually giving you a lot of advice.
Try to see it as "very tough love". :wink: 

k


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## Guy Bacos

:roll:


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## Guy Bacos

Andy, I hope you are able to get something out of this thread, although even if there are a lot of true things, I think nothing will actually be practical for you. If ever you get discouraged, feel free to pm me, I can try to help you if you want.


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## KEnK

Guy Bacos @ Tue Jul 30 said:


> :roll:


Hah!
:wink:


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## sizzler52

Thank you all once again for your comments either regarding the music or otherwise. Can I please be clear, I have been a musician for 50 of my 52 years, 18 of them a full time professional horn player, have fought in 2 conflicts and played music on the battle grounds and have absolutely no intention of 'giving up,' becoming disheartened or not believing in my music, because of a negative post. Actually the post was positive and helpful in parts but as in many walks of life regardless of an individual's intelligence, ability, or anything else, some people just have a negative and unlikable personality. I dare say if I were to meet the guy we might well enjoy a drink or two disagreeing about most things. By the same token I do not need, want or intend to eat any humble pie around my brief response. My boss for example at work is a brilliant strategist, leader and friend...... but what an asshole, it doesn't mean there's no respect for what he's good at, but will I be inviting him for Christmas dinner..... I don't think so.

So thank you again for all the helpful views, opinions and advice which I greatly appreciate and will think carefully about. I certainly didn't expect to generate so many posts and there's a lot of useful feedback in there. So beware........the Second Movement is on its way ...........lol ...
Thank you all


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## zacnelson

I agree with Guy's suggestion that you loosen up the piano part, I think the main impression I had was that it was too robotic and quantized, both in terms of timing and velocity. I find it hard to assess the quality of the composition until the more human feel is injected. Even if it was the greatest composition in the world I would be immune to it while it is quantized!


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