# Samplicity announces Berlin Studio plugin



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 22, 2022)

Hi all,

Samplicity (now a new company with an older owner) has been silently working on plugins in the last 1,5 year and is proud to announce it first product:

Berlin Studio

a reverb plugin with the acoustics of a large, famous German studio.

18 orchestral positions on the recording stage, captured with a Decca Tree, an AB-Pair and surround microphones.

Check out the new Samplicity website and the first demos.

Cheers,

Peter


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## doctoremmet (Aug 22, 2022)

Very cool Peter. Congratulations!


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## Casiquire (Aug 22, 2022)

Ooh, the GUI is made to resemble an audio mixer. I really like that! So basically we'll pump our dry brass through the on-stage "Brass position", the winds and strings through their own, and then we'll be able to blend them all like a mixer? I'm guessing we'd have an option to bring up, say, a closer mic set just for the brass, winds, or percussion alone for added detail? This seems pretty exciting


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## signalpath (Aug 22, 2022)

Listening to the demos made w/ anechoic recordings, without any reverberation.

Advanced proprietary, multi-channel convolution engine w/ zero latency.

iLok 2/3 or Cloud.


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## prodigalson (Aug 22, 2022)

Ooooh!!! judging by past history of Samplicity IR's this could be VERY useful to anyone who wants to blend dry samples with a certain very well known German sample developer who's name does not begin with V!


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## doctoremmet (Aug 22, 2022)

The one whose name does start with V, wouldn't that be an Austrian developer? Not that that would somehow make your statement less true...


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## Trash Panda (Aug 22, 2022)

Ooh! I remember this being talked about years ago and have been waiting in earnest ever since.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 22, 2022)

Sounds great, Peter! Grats on the release 

For me personally, I would have liked the recordings separated so that Dry is one file, Mix is another file, Fully Wet a third. That’s how most companies do it too.

It’s just so much easier to navigate the examples then.


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## tc9000 (Aug 22, 2022)

prodigalson said:


> this could be VERY useful to anyone who wants to blend dry samples with a certain very well known German sample developer who's name does not begin with V!


Oh thats a shame..... the name of the product made me think I would be able to blend dry samples with a German sample developer who's name begins with O, not V .


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## prodigalson (Aug 22, 2022)

tc9000 said:


> Oh thats a shame..... the name of the product made me think I would be able to blend dry samples with a German sample developer who's name begions with O, not V .


...I said who's name does NOT begin with V.


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## Markrs (Aug 22, 2022)

tc9000 said:


> Oh thats a shame..... the name of the product made me think I would be able to blend dry samples with a German sample developer who's name begions with O, not V .


It is the one that begins with "O"


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## prodigalson (Aug 22, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> The one whose name does start with V, wouldn't that be an Austrian developer? Not that that would somehow make your statement less true...


oh DOH, what a dummy. of course VSL is Austrian.


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## tc9000 (Aug 22, 2022)

Ahhh hahaha it *is* a certain scoring stage in Berlin beginning with T - my bad . My old lecturer for boolean logic (assuming he's still on this earth) would not be happy today HEHEH.


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## chrisav (Aug 22, 2022)

Just wondering, if the developer was allowed to capture IRs in Teldex and sell them as a reverb plugin, why are they not allowed to use its name?


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## Markrs (Aug 22, 2022)

chrisav said:


> Just wondering, if the developer was allowed to capture IRs in Teldex and sell them as a reverb plugin, why are they not allowed to use its name?


Probably due to our existing contracts with another company.

You even see it with Sample libraries. There is a piano that we are pretty sure was recorded in Air Studios but the location is not mentioned on the product page.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 22, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Sounds great, Peter! Grats on the release
> 
> For me personally, I would have liked the recordings separated so that Dry is one file, Mix is another file, Fully Wet a third. That’s how most companies do it too.
> 
> It’s just so much easier to navigate the examples then.


Hey Hendrik, 

Long time ago!
I am going to seriously think about this  

Thanks!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 22, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hey Hendrik,
> 
> Long time ago!
> I am going to seriously think about this
> ...


Hey! Indeed!!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 22, 2022)

chrisav said:


> Just wondering, if the developer was allowed to capture IRs in Teldex and sell them as a reverb plugin, why are they not allowed to use its name?



As you can see in the About section on the site, this is indeed the acoustics from Teldex. Hendrik from OT and I have been carying a super heavy monitor around in the studio for playing the source signals. This was done already several years ago.

For now I just do not want to shout out their brand names on my website.


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## Zanshin (Aug 22, 2022)

I looks and sounds awesome! Although when I saw "Berlin" I hoped it was the Meistersaal haha.

Is there a way to scale and/or shorten the IRs? When that option is missing when working with IRs ...


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 22, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I looks and sounds awesome! Although when I saw "Berlin" I hoped it was the Meistersaal haha.
> 
> Is there a way to scale and/or shorten the IRs? When that option is missing when working with IRs ...


Time-dependent EQ is being developed for the other plugins. What the screen shots show is the current functionality; it would be cool indeed to include a kind of damping if time permits. Scaling and/or stretching IRs is a no-go area for this type of plugin for me.

[Edit: aaaand... I did add length scaling to Berlin Studio, when I ported it from another plugin, it was way too good not to include it  ]


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## Zanshin (Aug 22, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Time-dependent EQ is being developed for the other plugins. What the screen shots show is the current functionality; it would be cool indeed to include a kind of damping if time permits. Scaling and/or stretching IRs is a no-go area for this type of plugin for me.


OK!

So Meistersaal confirmed after this first set of plugins?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 22, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> OK!
> 
> So Meistersaal confirmed after this first set of plugins?


Haha,

I have an opinion on the sound of concert halls in combination with film scores; and I want to try to avoid discussions on topics like that 

Cheers


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## Zanshin (Aug 22, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Haha,
> 
> I have an opinion on the sound of concert halls in combination with film scores; and I want to try to avoid discussions on topics like that
> 
> Cheers


We are a pretty diverse group here, not all of us are film score focused. I do appreciate your answer though


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 22, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> We are a pretty diverse group here, not all of us are film score focused. I do appreciate your answer though


I am pretty familiar with V.I. (even been a mod here, many years ago).

I should have mentioned orchestral, not film score, that was a cognitive hickup


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## Trash Panda (Aug 22, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> 18 orchestral positions on the recording stage, captured with a Decca Tree, an AB-Pair and surround microphones.


I already preordered, but still have a few questions. What are the 18 positions? Is one of them for a piano?

I assume the close mic in the plugin is the dry signal?


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## axb312 (Aug 22, 2022)

Machine based ilok would have been nice.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 23, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I already preordered, but still have a few questions. What are the 18 positions? Is one of them for a piano?
> 
> I assume the close mic in the plugin is the dry signal?


In the mixer approach that the plugin uses, the "Close / Spot" label is used for the source signal, that has nearly the same processing options as the three "microphone channels", hence the microphone reference . It has been called "Source / Dry Signal" before, maybe that was less confusing. Good point to reconsider.

There have not been specific recordings for a piano location, but I will go over the recordings, to see if there is a pair with matching distance properties that could be added as a piano location (I am thinking of violins 1 right - violas left/violins 2 right) - (technical detail: each "position" consists of two original signal locations, for the left and right channels)

The current positions are:
Violins 1, Violins 2, Violas, Celli, Contrabasses, Woodwinds, French Horns 3 variations, Trumpets, Trombones, Tuba, Percussion 3 variations, Back stage wide, Mid stage wide and Front stage wide.
It is possible to swap the channels of each position, for instance for putting the Violins 1 position on the right side


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## Casiquire (Aug 23, 2022)

tc9000 said:


> Oh thats a shame..... the name of the product made me think I would be able to blend dry samples with a German sample developer who's name begins with O, not V .


Bet you it'll still blend!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 23, 2022)

tc9000 said:


> Oh thats a shame..... the name of the product made me think I would be able to blend dry samples with a German sample developer who's name begins with O, not V .


A few of the IRs in Berlin Studio are also included in some solo instruments from Orchestral Tools, for quite some years already


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## David Kudell (Aug 23, 2022)

Very exciting, I’ve been waiting for something like this for a long time! October can’t come soon enough.

Would love if this had native Apple silicon compatibility, any plans for that?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 23, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> Very exciting, I’ve been waiting for something like this for a long time! October can’t come soon enough.
> 
> Would love if this had native Apple silicon compatibility, any plans for that?


Thanks,

Apple ARM/Silicon processors are natively supported.


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## David Kudell (Aug 23, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Apple ARM/Silicon processors are natively supported.


Yes now I see it mentioned on the shop page. I suggest adding it to the product page under "main plugin specifications" too, that's where I looked the first time.

As soon as I listened to the demos, I was like, "Yep, that's the sound of Teldex all right!" I personally think it's the best sounding room out there for orchestral music - not too big, just right. And this plugin will be fantastic for blending dry libraries with the rest of my stuff. 

Congrats, I think this will be a very successful product! I placed my pre-order already and now I'm counting the days!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 23, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> Yes now I see it mentioned on the shop page. I suggest adding it to the product page under "main plugin specifications" too, that's where I looked the first time.
> 
> As soon as I listened to the demos, I was like, "Yep, that's the sound of Teldex all right!" I personally think it's the best sounding room out there for orchestral music - not too big, just right. And this plugin will be fantastic for blending dry libraries with the rest of my stuff.
> 
> Congrats, I think this will be a very successful product! I placed my pre-order already and now I'm counting the days!


Thank you very much!

When working with the IRs myself, they still give me that same feeling of the hall. When I first walked in there years ago, I was really stunned when I clapped my hands (a bit shy then).


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## Go To 11 (Aug 23, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thank you very much!
> 
> When working with the IRs myself, they still give me that same feeling of the hall. When I first walked in there years ago, I was really stunned when I clapped my hands (a bit shy then).


Do you have any plans for other rooms? These sound amazing. It would be great to have more room tones with this philosophy.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 23, 2022)

Go To 11 said:


> Do you have any plans for other rooms? These sound amazing. It would be great to have more room tones with this philosophy.


I do, but probably not this year. There are a few more plugins in the pipeline first.


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## Go To 11 (Aug 23, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I do, but probably not this year. There are a few more plugins in the pipeline first.


Oh amazing! Good to know.


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## I like music (Aug 23, 2022)

ooo. wonder how sample modeling strings might sound like thru this.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 23, 2022)

I like music said:


> ooo. wonder how sample modeling strings might sound like thru this.


If you have a well performed, dry part of 15-30 seconds, and allow me to post it online, I can run it through the plugin. I am curious as well


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## I like music (Aug 23, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> If you have a well performed, dry part of 15-30 seconds, and allow me to post it online, I can run it through the plugin. I am curious as well


Not sure about well performed, but I'm sure I have some snippets! Perhaps you can judge if they're any good! 

@Leandro Gardini has definitely done some excellent ones!


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## Trash Panda (Aug 23, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> In the mixer approach that the plugin uses, the "Close / Spot" label is used for the source signal, that has nearly the same processing options as the three "microphone channels", hence the microphone reference . It has been called "Source / Dry Signal" before, maybe that was less confusing. Good point to reconsider.
> 
> There have not been specific recordings for a piano location, but I will go over the recordings, to see if there is a pair with matching distance properties that could be added as a piano location (I am thinking of violins 1 right - violas left/violins 2 right) - (technical detail: each "position" consists of two original signal locations, for the left and right channels)
> 
> ...


Thank you for confirming! How is the dry/source signal treated? Is it panned to be in alignment with the decca/AB/surround mics?


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## Daren Audio (Aug 23, 2022)

Sold! Count me in!
Thank You for not charging U.S. customers VAT!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 23, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Thank you for confirming! How is the dry/source signal treated? Is it panned to be in alignment with the decca/AB/surround mics?


No, the user should pan the input "to taste".
There are two simple mono panners (L, R -3 dB pan rule) for that, this is inmo the simplest way to pan and control the width of (and even channel-swap) the input.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 23, 2022)

I like music said:


> Not sure about well performed, but I'm sure I have some snippets! Perhaps you can judge if they're any good!
> 
> @Leandro Gardini has definitely done some excellent ones!


If you have an email address of me, use it if you want to send me audio, otherwise contact me by PM.


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## ed buller (Aug 24, 2022)

Hi

this sounds very exciting. I have a question regarding the mic positions. From the website :


The plugin contains 18 different true-stereo positions, captured with three microphones sets:
A Decca Tree with Neumann U50 microphones
An A-B Pair higher and behind the Decca Tree
Two “surround” microphones positioned even higher and wider 


So , does that mean each of the 18 positions have surround mics at THAT position or are there a set of static ( never move ) mics that always give a true representation of the room perspective ?






I hope this makes sense, spent ages on this artwork !

Best

ed


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 24, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Hi
> 
> this sounds very exciting. I have a question regarding the mic positions. From the website :
> 
> ...


Hi Ed,

Excellent question, I never thought about documenting this, oops, thanks!

Yes, the microphones are in static positions, as if they were positioned for an orchestral recording session. In fact, that day there were recordings for a sample library and the next for a film score with Danny Elfman.

So yes, you can "hear" the hall like in the control room, via the three mic sets.

And again I see my miscalculation in the GUI design of the mixer: there are no close mics, that phrase is used for the dry source signal. It will be fixed.

And thanks for the drawings!


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## AudioLoco (Aug 24, 2022)

This sounds really.... really good in the demos. 
Impressive


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## ed buller (Aug 24, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hi Ed,
> 
> Excellent question, I never thought about documenting this, oops, thanks!
> 
> ...


Ah ok thanks for the clarification. So from your diagram ,ALL the mics stay as they are...and you move the IR speaker ( thing that creates the impulse , i am guessing it's a speaker ) around to the various orchestral positions you have chosen ?

sorry to be a pest

best

e


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## ed buller (Aug 24, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Yes, the microphones are in static positions, as if they were positioned for an orchestral recording session.


Sorry this makes it clear !...I've got it now. Will order
best

e


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## kgdrum (Aug 24, 2022)

Hi and Congratulations @Peter Emanuel Roos 

This looks really interesting maybe I missed it but I really couldn’t find minimum requirements on the website for Berlin Studio. As someone that’s using an older computer: 2012 MacPro 3.46 Ghz 12core 96g Mojave
Will I have enough CPU power to run Berlin Studio?

Thanks


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## AudioLoco (Aug 24, 2022)

One question, if I may please: It says on the website AMD not recommended, would it not work, or just be less efficient?
My main machine is Intel, but my secondary is an AMD based laptop.
Thanks!


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## signalpath (Aug 24, 2022)

macOSApple Silicon CPU (natively supported)
Intel i5, i7 or better (natively supported)
OS version: 10.13 (High Sierra) – Montery (12)+WindowsIntel i5, i7 or better
AMD not recommended because of the plugin’s internal Intel optimizations
OS version: 10/11 – 7 and 8.1 work, but are not supportedMemoryHost requirement + 150 MbDisk space700 Mb, preferably on an SSDDisplayAt least 1600 x 900 logical pixels


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 24, 2022)

kgdrum said:


> Hi and Congratulations @Peter Emanuel Roos
> 
> This looks really interesting maybe I missed it but I really couldn’t find minimum requirements on the website for Berlin Studio. As someone that’s using an older computer: 2012 MacPro 3.46 Ghz 12core 96g Mojave
> Will I have enough CPU power to run Berlin Studio?
> ...


Yes this should work, I am one of the few developers who actually prefers to work on Windows, for a long time I only used a quite old MacBookPro for the Mac builds (I have several Macs now, but still not focusing on the fastest machines).


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 24, 2022)

AudioLoco said:


> One question, if I may please: It says on the website AMD not recommended, would it not work, or just be less efficient?
> My main machine is Intel, but my secondary is an AMD based laptop.
> Thanks!


Simply not yet tested...
Officially it should just work, but I also use specific so-called vector optimizations for Intel. Some of the "brute force" stuff can fall back on AMD to slower code for the operations involved, but nothing in the code requires an Intel CPU.
Reminds me of ordering an AMD PC and do some comparisons


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 24, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Ah ok thanks for the clarification. So from your diagram ,ALL the mics stay as they are...and you move the IR speaker ( thing that creates the impulse , i am guessing it's a speaker ) around to the various orchestral positions you have chosen ?
> 
> sorry to be a pest
> 
> ...


Yep, I'd rather not explain the process of making IRs, because it can be quite confusing, but I guess some parts just need to be covered:

- Sounds are emitted on the stage from typical orchestral positions, picked up by the static microphone sets and recorded in Pro Tools
- This is done for the Left side and the Right side of what I call a "stage position", thus getting the required "True Stereo" information (think: two ears, left and right and two sounds, left and right - including the left-to-right and right-to-left information)
- The recorded version, together with the emitted dry signals are the input for the post-pro parts that results in the typical IRs (comparable to earthquake recordings, but with higher frequencies). The IR information is extracted from the difference between the dry and wet signals)


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

For those interested, I posted another demo, a woodwinds section that I mixed from dry solo instrument tracks. The levels coming from the Dry channel and the A-B Pair channel are roughly the same (50%-50%).






Woodwinds section: – Samplicity







samplicity.com





https://samplicity.com/woodwinds-mahler-dry/

Cheers


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## ed buller (Aug 26, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> For those interested, I posted another demo, a woodwinds section that I mixed from dry solo instrument tracks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lovely So the wet versions. Is This 100% the A/B mics ?

best

e


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Lovely So the wet versions. Is This 100% the A/B mics ?
> 
> best
> 
> e


No,

I realize that I have to be very careful and accurate with filenames and descriptions 

In the Daw the Dry and A-B Pair meters show the same strength, so it's 50-50.
The dry channel has been delayed with 15 msec in the plugin, this corrects for the signal-to-microphone distance, an approach that tends to soften, or hide the transients from the dry signal.
This is now a manual operation, but there will be a toggle for it in the UI.

This is the fully wet sound from the A-B Pair perspective:

https://samplicity.com/woodwinds-mahler-a-b-fully-wet/


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## ed buller (Aug 26, 2022)

Ah

Ok

Is the Decca dryer ?...please could we hear that ?


would you like to try this ?

View attachment ET The Flying Theme Only WW Dry - Flow 1.mp3





best

e


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Ah
> 
> Ok
> 
> ...


Sure,

I find the Decca fuller and more "in-your-face", and the A-B more open, transparent.

This is the sound via the Decca channel only:

https://samplicity.com/woodwinds-mahler-decca-fully-wet/


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## ed buller (Aug 26, 2022)

Bizarley the A?B mics sound closer ?. Are they cardiods ?

Also looking at the GUI

as the plug in only supports three mic pairs I presume the dry signal is routed directly to the"Close/Spot" Fader. 

What does ERS mean ? is that turning off reflections so it's only tail ? 

And, is this CPU friendly for me to have loaded 12 times ?

thanks

e








best

e


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

I find the Deccas always closer, not the A-B's...

I can pull your track through the Decca and the A-B, fully wet.
I can just download it as is, you can also email me an uncompressed file, let me know.

The Deccas are Neumann M50s - no idea about the A-Bs, I'd have to inquire that, but I guess they were appropriate mics for that setup (at a studio of this level).


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

I just tried 13 instances in Reaper on my rather cheap i5 quad core Windows laptop (13 woodwind channels from that dry Mahler piece) and the CPU goes to 70%. But the machine remains responsive.

But this code is not generated with the appropriate compiler's release settings, so I expect that would be significantly lower (I guess 40-50% on this laptop). On a serious modern DAW this would be a lot less CPU usage!

[Edit] I also checked the code: the multi-threading in the convo-engine is switched off in this version. So expect even lower CPU usage.

Each instance is doing 12 convolutions of 2.2 seconds each. It has a fast engine under the hood 

The ERS button is for quickly selecting only Early Reflections, for instance if you want to use it as an insert on solo instrument channels for "positioning" (and use another plugin, or another instance on a bus for tails). It essentially switches off the convolution for the tail, after 2 seconds, so it lowers CPU. It can also be used for adding e.g. the Decca ERs while using the tails from the A-B and Surrounds, etc.

The plugin input goes to the channel now named Close/Spot (which will be renamed to Dry source)

(I missed your edit, so I am answering here inline as well)


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## ed buller (Aug 26, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> The Deccas are Neumann M50s


Ok so those are OMNI's...kinda why it sounds wetter but a decca is 3 omnis Still bootiful.


Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I can pull your track through the Decca and the A-B, fully wet.
> I can just download it as is, you can also email me an uncompressed file, let me know.


just download it , It's kinda long, do you want an edit ?


Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> ERS button is for quickly selecting only Early Reflections, for instance if you want to use it as an insert on solo instrument channels for "positioning" (and use another plugin, or another instance on a bus for tails).


hmm. how does that work ? Early reflections as a different signal to the tail.

thanks for all the info, super helpful

best

e


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

There are also knobs for the ERs and Tail levels, so you can lower or mute the ERs on the AB and Surrounds and use only the ERs in the Decca channel.

I will download your track.


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## ed buller (Aug 26, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> There are also knobs for the ERs and Tail levels, so you can lower or mute the ERs on the AB and Surrounds and use only the ERs in the Decca channel.
> 
> I will download your track.


ahh...I think I follow. So each impulse response location has both an early reflection and tail component that can be tweaked ? So say the woodwinds could have less tail and more ER to bring them forward ?

best

e


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

ed buller said:


> ahh...I think I follow. So each impulse response location has both an early reflection and tail component that can be tweaked ? So say the woodwinds could have less tail and more ER to bring them forward ?
> 
> best
> 
> e


Yes


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

Hi Ed,

Your track routed through the Decca and A-B channels:

ET-Buller-demo-Decca-full-wet.mp3

ET-Buller-demo-A-B-full-wet.mp3


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## ed buller (Aug 26, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hi Ed,
> 
> Your track routed through the Decca and A-B channels:
> 
> ...


Gosh.....that really sounds superb. So much detail. 

View attachment Flying Theme Teldex.mp3


so this is 50% dry 25% of each of the files you sent me. Just fantastic. 


If your up for it, please Could I hear the Decca ( which actually does sound closer and clearer in the stereo field ) without the tail from the dry WW ?

Best

e


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

ed buller said:


> If your up for it, please Could I hear the Decca ( which actually does sound closer and clearer in the stereo field ) without the tail from the dry WW ?
> 
> Best
> 
> e


I do not understand what you mean by "without the tail from the dry WW"; please elaborate.

Do you mean your original, dry track with only Decca early-reflections? That's easy...


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## ed buller (Aug 26, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I do not understand what you mean by "without the tail from the dry WW"; please elaborate.
> 
> Do you mean your original, dry track with only Decca early-reflections? That's easy...


yes please. So no Tail. Killer room

best

e


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

ed buller said:


> yes please. So no Tail. Killer room
> 
> best
> 
> e


Sure you want to hear it with only reflections up to 80 msec? 

Because of the missing tail it may confuse you / listeners. But rest assured that if you add, say a Lexicon or Bricasti tail, with its ERs lowered, it would again really sound further away in a hall.

Last one for this evening 

ET-Buller-demo-Decca-ONLY-ERs-full-wet.mp3


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## ed buller (Aug 26, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Sure you want to hear it with only reflections up to 80 msec?
> 
> Because of the missing tail it may confuse you / listeners. But rest assured that if you add, say a Lexicon or Bricasti tail, with its ERs lowered, it would again really sound further away in a hall.
> 
> ...


fantastic , such a crisp sound. It's amust have

many thanks

ed


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 26, 2022)

ed buller said:


> fantastic , such a crisp sound. It's amust have
> 
> many thanks
> 
> ed


Just checking your site and bio, really cool you've worked with Hans, I met him twice, briefly. Such a nice man. Much respect for what he does and who he is.


----------



## ed buller (Aug 26, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Just checking your site and bio, really cool you've worked with Hans, I met him twice, briefly. Such a nice man. Much respect for what he does and who he is.


They broke the mould. Lovely man, I was very very lucky

best

e


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 27, 2022)

Ed’s example was really helpful to hear.

Those IR’s are so clean-sounding and they embrace the original sound in a natural way, it seems to me.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 27, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Ed’s example was really helpful to hear.
> 
> Those IR’s are so clean-sounding and they embrace the original sound in a natural way, it seems to me.


Thanks Hendrik!


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 27, 2022)

There is a new demo online:

Leandro Gardini has been so kind to let me add a mix of the three reverb channels to a midi rendering by him of Mozart's 40th, with SampleModelling and Infinite sample libraries.

This link should take you there:

samplicity.com#demos


----------



## Raphioli (Aug 27, 2022)

Wow!

I didn't know about this until I coincidently saw an ad about this at the bottom of the page of another completely irrelevant thread to this plugin. 
And decided to do a search on this forum and found this thread. 
Looks like the ad is working as intended  

I remember the IRs were mentioned a long time ago probably somewhere on VI-C,
but I thought this project was dead since I stopped hearing about it for a long time.
I've known it was used in Berlin Solo WWs.

Its great to see its finally going to be released!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 28, 2022)

Raphioli said:


> Wow!
> 
> I didn't know about this until I coincidently saw an ad about this at the bottom of the page of another completely irrelevant thread to this plugin.
> And decided to do a search on this forum and found this thread.
> ...


Thanks so much!


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Aug 28, 2022)

I pre-ordered already, but Peter could you let know, how many activations I'll get. Would be great to have up to 3 for my slave machines !


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 28, 2022)

Thank you, the plan is to have two activations standard (after recently seeing a discussion here on VI).

But rest assured, I had not yet seriously thought about this and will check again what others do and also think about what "I" would prefer as a user...

Do you use slaves as mixer extensions? Not only for instruments?


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## Heinigoldstein (Aug 28, 2022)

Actually for instruments only. But I'm a little afraid to run out of CPU on my main machine, when I need to many instances of yor plug in. I could insert a few in the VE-Pro mixers in my slaves in that case. As far as I understand, I need one per instrument/section right ?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 28, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> Actually for instruments only. But I'm a little afraid to run out of CPU on my main machine, when I need to many instances of yor plug in. I could insert a few in the VE-Pro mixers in my slaves in that case. As far as I understand, I need one per instrument/section right ?


Ah, true, VSL gives these option in their instruments, and thus on slaves, nice.

A lot of configurations are possible, you can add them as inserts, with Early Reflections only, on single mixer channels with very low CPU, for positioning only. And use that for very samples, not for others, for instance.
Or create send (sub-)groups that use them in either ER or full mode.
You might add a separate master reverb bus with only the surrounds tail from the back of the hall, etc.


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## Heinigoldstein (Aug 28, 2022)

I have a full template with the Berlin series and additional, often dry instruments like Sample Modeling, LASS ……and I‘m a very lazy and not too talented engineer. So I‘m really looking forward to your release. Thanks for your feedback !


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 31, 2022)

For those following this topic, the "Close/Spot" label in the plugin has been replaced with "Dry signal" to avoid further confusions that there may be another microphone involved. This channel comes directly from the Input channel, but has pre-delay, solo/mute and EQ options.
Images on the Samplicity site have been updated.

Cheers


----------



## Gabriel S. (Sep 3, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos Do you have any demos where you use non-anechoic recordings as your "dry" signal?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Sep 5, 2022)

Gabriel S. said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos Do you have any demos where you use non-anechoic recordings as your "dry" signal


Hi,

I have added a Chopin piece from a not so dry piano on the site's home page.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Sep 10, 2022)

I have had several questions on how many Berlin Studio instances can be used at the same time, because from a convolution perspective three channels with True Stereo processing might already seem "heavy".

Rest assured, on a really moderate i5 laptop I have worked with 15 instances within a Daw. I expect that more serious machines will support significantly higher numbers. 

When using only the "positioning" option (= early reflections, no tails), many more instances should be possible.

Cheers


----------



## David Kudell (Sep 10, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I have had several questions on how many Berlin Studio instances can be used at the same time, because from a convolution perspective three channels with True Stereo processing might already seem "heavy".
> 
> Rest assured, on a really moderate i5 laptop I have worked with 15 instances within a Daw. I expect that more serious machines will support significantly higher numbers.
> 
> ...


That’s great to hear Peter!


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## Heinigoldstein (Sep 11, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I have had several questions on how many Berlin Studio instances can be used at the same time, because from a convolution perspective three channels with True Stereo processing might already seem "heavy".
> 
> Rest assured, on a really moderate i5 laptop I have worked with 15 instances within a Daw. I expect that more serious machines will support significantly higher numbers.
> 
> ...


So would you recommend to use the „positioning“ option as a single plugin on each desired instrument and 1-3 True Stereo instances on busses for Tree, AB, Surround ? Just curious how it will work most efficiently ?!?


----------



## TeamLeader (Oct 14, 2022)

Need some help. After surviving a MASSIVE straight on hit from hurricane Ian, and now officially getting web back on, I tried to go to Samplecity to grab the plugin. It now has a log in page and not the order/preorder one I was at before. Can someone assist me? thanks !


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## TheMusicSync (Oct 14, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Samplicity (now a new company with an older owner) has been silently working on plugins in the last 1,5 year and is proud to announce it first product:
> 
> ...


Great, but the link doesn't work :(


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## Samplicity (Oct 14, 2022)

Fixed...
So sorry... but it also explains to me why the stats dropped the last days, eeekk (it's busy here  )

There has been some work on the site, and this lock was a setting from the "staging" site.

It should be fixed now - thanks for the pokes!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Oct 14, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> So would you recommend to use the „positioning“ option as a single plugin on each desired instrument and 1-3 True Stereo instances on busses for Tree, AB, Surround ? Just curious how it will work most efficiently ?!?


For instrument groups you can use a dedicated plugin instance, with any mix of the microphones you like. Maybe you want more low end in for instance a Percusion group, maybe less. This can be done without any EQ by changing the microphone levels.


----------



## bbrylow (Oct 14, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> For instrument groups you can use a dedicated plugin instance, with any mix of the microphones you like. Maybe you want more low end in for instance a Percusion group, maybe less. This can be done without any EQ by changing the microphone levels.


I’m jumping into this conversation a little bit late but I’m wondering Peter when you are going to release the product. Thank you it looks amazing


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Oct 14, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> I’m jumping into this conversation a little bit late but I’m wondering Peter when you are going to release the product. Thank you it looks amazing


Thanks for the kind words!

The plan was and still is end of October.
At this moment the last work on Berlin Studio is now waiting for two other products that will be released earlier, a recent change of priorities.
I soon hope to announce and release an M7 reverb emulation plugin, and another one of the 480 reverb.


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## signalpath (Oct 14, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> The plan was and still is end of October. At this moment the last work on Berlin Studio is now waiting for two other products that will be released earlier, a recent change of priorities. I soon hope to announce and release an M7 reverb emulation plugin, and another one of the 480 reverb.


A 4-band EQ section for seamlessly finetuning the wet signal? Sounds promising.


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## brett (Oct 15, 2022)

Hi Peter. Do you plan on uploading a video demonstration prior to launch?


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## Trash Panda (Oct 27, 2022)

Interesting thing I noticed when doing a search for something OT related. Makes me even more excited for release day knowing OT commissioned @Samplicity and @Peter Emanuel Roos to do the original IRs for their soloists.






Mixer View - Orchestral Tools Helpdesk


The Mixer view gives you full control over the microphone positions available in the collections. Mixer Channels The mic positions (incl. playing noises) appea




orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com







> Teldex IR​For the production of our Soloist Collections, recorded at the Teldex Solo Booth, we teamed up with Samplicity to provide users with a way to seamlessly put the solo instruments into the large Teldex stage as a perfect complement to the collections recorded at Teldex.


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## constaneum (Oct 27, 2022)

So looking forward to this plugin.


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## Heinigoldstein (Oct 29, 2022)

Hi Peter, I don’t want to sound impatient, but do you have any idea, when you will release ? I put a few mixes on hold, but a few posts ago, you mentioned, that your priority moved to another vst ?!? Please don’t scare me too much


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Oct 29, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> Hi Peter, I don’t want to sound impatient, but do you have any idea, when you will release ? I put a few mixes on hold, but a few posts ago, you mentioned, that your priority moved to another vst ?!? Please don’t scare me too much


I am missing posts like this, I need to get email notifications, oops.

Doing my best to get it out in the first week of November. I will send an email out to the people who have pre-ordered.

The plugins I work on have code in common that needed attention and then suddenly the Gemini BM7 plugin was functionally finished before Berlin. Trust me, Berlin Studio will also benefit from this (like getting the same EQ as the BM7 and better support for different sample rates) and a less cluttered GUI.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Oct 29, 2022)

brett said:


> Hi Peter. Do you plan on uploading a video demonstration prior to launch?


Not before, making the product available is more important, as end of October was mentioned as a deadline. Later, of course!


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## Heinigoldstein (Oct 29, 2022)

So, I'm looking forward to my email notification, hopefullly sooner than later 😏


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## tabulius (Nov 7, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Simply not yet tested...
> Officially it should just work, but I also use specific so-called vector optimizations for Intel. Some of the "brute force" stuff can fall back on AMD to slower code for the operations involved, but nothing in the code requires an Intel CPU.
> Reminds me of ordering an AMD PC and do some comparisons


As someone who is planning to order AMD Ryzen 7700X, I would like to hear if there are any problems or performance issues with this plugin.

Ps. Is it out yet?


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## galactic orange (Nov 7, 2022)

Hi @Peter Emanuel Roos 
I’ve been trying to pre-order for days and none of my payment methods (credit card, PayPal) are being accepted and I have tried many times. Those forms of payment work fine at other vendors. I really don’t want to miss the intro period on Berlin Studio.

Last week I sent an email to [email protected]
I hope this is the correct way to contact you.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 7, 2022)

I have sent you two emails, from a trustworthy domain.
Search your inboxes for [email protected], please?


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## galactic orange (Nov 7, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I have sent you two emails, from a trustworthy domain.
> Search your inboxes for [email protected], please?


Thanks Peter,
I found your emails in the junk folder. Apologies for bothering you in this busy time.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 7, 2022)

Cheers man!


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## WindcryMusic (Nov 7, 2022)

Ugh. iLok … why’d this one have to be iLok? I would have been so on board with this otherwise.

(Yes, I saw that the initial release uses a different activation method, but I wouldn’t want to spend this kind of money and find myself locked out of updates.)


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## Trash Panda (Nov 7, 2022)

Initial impressions are positive! Excited to dive in deeper. Nice work @Peter Emanuel Roos!


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## David Kudell (Nov 7, 2022)

Just got it installed and it's everything I wanted. I put the plugin on some dry instruments and they sound just like they're at Teldex. Quite amazing how it makes the samples so good and, in some cases, I didn't even need to further bus it to my Cinematic Rooms reverb bus.

So far I've tried it on stuff from Andea, Phoenix Orchestra, and Embertone stuff like Herring Clarinet.


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## Evans (Nov 7, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> Just got it installed and it's everything I wanted. I put the plugin on some dry instruments and they sound just like they're at Teldex. Quite amazing how it makes the samples so good and, in some cases, I didn't even need to further bus it to my Cinematic Rooms reverb bus.
> 
> So far I've tried it on stuff from Andea, Phoenix Orchestra, and Embertone stuff like Herring Clarinet.


Ugh, fine. Purchased.


----------



## AEF (Nov 7, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> Just got it installed and it's everything I wanted. I put the plugin on some dry instruments and they sound just like they're at Teldex. Quite amazing how it makes the samples so good and, in some cases, I didn't even need to further bus it to my Cinematic Rooms reverb bus.
> 
> So far I've tried it on stuff from Andea, Phoenix Orchestra, and Embertone stuff like Herring Clarinet.


Thats great news. Look forward to hearing some examples!


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## SZK-Max (Nov 7, 2022)

I'm looking forward to it. I haven't been able to get an email yet. I want to try it soon.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 7, 2022)

SZK-Max said:


> I'm looking forward to it. I haven't been able to get an email yet. I want to try it soon.


Send me a PM with your name or email, I'm still working


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## SZK-Max (Nov 7, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Send me a PM with your name or email, I'm still working


I sent you a message. Thanks!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 7, 2022)

I bought it too 

How do I download it?

Edit: I got it now!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 7, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I bought it too
> 
> How do I download it?


Still via the manual pre-ordering handling... Your email has been sent out, thanks!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 7, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Still via the manual pre-ordering handling... Your email has been sent out, thanks!


I got it! Thank you so much, Peter!

3 AM and I'm gonna brew some coffee - it's gonna be a long night !


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## galactic orange (Nov 7, 2022)

I couldn't get AU3 to load in Logic 10.7.5 although it DOES load in Maschine and Ableton.
Not a big deal. Just wondering if anybody is seeing the same behavior in Logic.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 7, 2022)

It will be tested very soon, this should have been found with AUval in our automated tests, maybe increase the number of times they run. Thanks for reporting.


----------



## galactic orange (Nov 7, 2022)

Thanks, Peter. I know you are aware of the issue. Just checking if it’s just my system or if others are getting the same thing. I’m on an Intel Mac.


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## constaneum (Nov 7, 2022)

any love for FL studio users? Would like to know it's tested to work fine on FL studio environment before deciding to grab. thanks


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## Honko (Nov 7, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> Just got it installed and it's everything I wanted. I put the plugin on some dry instruments and they sound just like they're at Teldex. Quite amazing how it makes the samples so good and, in some cases, I didn't even need to further bus it to my Cinematic Rooms reverb bus.
> 
> So far I've tried it on stuff from Andea, Phoenix Orchestra, and Embertone stuff like Herring Clarinet.


Hi David,
Have you tried the plugin with CSB or CSS? I'm interested in how it can improve the room tone of these libraries. Thanks


----------



## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

galactic orange said:


> Thanks, Peter. I know you are aware of the issue. Just checking if it’s just my system or if others are getting the same thing. I’m on an Intel Mac.


I have the same issue. Validation fails in Logic 10.7.4. I'm been able to run the VST 3 version via Blue Cat Patchwork for now, though. Hopefully, the AU validation will be fixed soon.

@Peter Emanuel Roos If it's of any help, I'm also running an Intel Mac on Big Sur 11.6.1.

Other than the validation issue, I'm extremely impressed by the sound so far. I inserted it on the extremely dry SWAM clarinet, and it sounded very natural out of the box. This is something I've had trouble achieving even with lots of tweaking and several reverbs added. Well done!


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## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

Honko said:


> Have you tried the plugin with CSB or CSS? I'm interested in how it can improve the room tone of these libraries.


I just did a quick and dirty test on CSB. I used the close mic on the solo trumpet and added Berlin Studio with the signal placed in the trumpet section of the GUI (see screenshot). No additional tweaking. Pretty impressive, huh? I include the dry version for reference.






Berlin Studio version:

View attachment CSB Trumpet Berlin Studio.mp3


Dry version:

View attachment CSB Trumpet Dry.mp3


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## chrisav (Nov 8, 2022)

OK that may have just sold me. The price is still a little steep for me right now, hoping there'll be an edu discount down the road 🤞


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## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

Here's another quick test using the CSB solo horn (close mic only) placed in the French Horns Normal section.






Berlin Studio version:

View attachment CSB Horn Berlin Studio.mp3


Dry version:

View attachment CSB Horn Dry.mp3


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## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

I'm having way too much fun with this.  This will be the last one for now, promise. Quick improvisation with two solo trombones from CSB (close mic only) playing in octaves. Placed in the trombones section of Berlin Studio.

Berlin Studio version:

View attachment CSB Trombone 8va Berlin Studio.mp3


Dry version:

View attachment CSB Trombone 8va Dry.mp3


----------



## Honko (Nov 8, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I'm having way too much fun with this.  This will be the last one for now, promise. Quick improvisation with two solo trombones from CSB (close mic only) playing in octaves. Placed in the trombones section of Berlin Studio.
> 
> Berlin Studio version:
> 
> ...


Jesus thats amazing! Thank you for taking the time. I may have to get my wallet


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## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

Honko said:


> Jesus thats amazing! Thank you for taking the time. I may have to get my wallet


Yeah, I'm amazed too. I've just played around with it for an hour and I'm already completely sold. I'd say it's worth every penny.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I just did a quick and dirty test on CSB. I used the close mic on the solo trumpet and added Berlin Studio with the signal placed in the trumpet section of the GUI (see screenshot). No additional tweaking. Pretty impressive, huh? I include the dry version for reference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, this really make my heart beat faster...


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

chrisav said:


> OK that may have just sold me. The price is still a little steep for me right now, hoping there'll be an edu discount down the road 🤞


There will be, trust me, but I have to implement stuff for that and it's quite busy now 
Contact me via PM.


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## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thank you so much, this really make my heart beat faster...


The pleasure is all mine! You've achieved something quite astonishing with this plugin.


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## JeffvR (Nov 8, 2022)

All sounds great! How does it compare to MIR and the Teldex stage?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Kalli said:


> The pleasure is all mine! You've achieved something quite astonishing with this plugin.


It was super to work on this (and quite intense and taking a long time) -I am very happy with the results myself!


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## Living Fossil (Nov 8, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos : Right now, Logic (10.6.3) doesn't validate the Plugin. (I'm on Catalina)

Is there a timeframe for an update which will allow me to use the plugin?


----------



## rudi (Nov 8, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Here's another quick test using the CSB solo horn (close mic only) placed in the French Horns Normal section.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you @Kalli all these sound fabulous.
A quick question: what mix/settings did you use in Berlin Studio?


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos : Right now, Logic (10.6.3) doesn't validate the Plugin. (I'm on Catalina)
> 
> Is there a timeframe for an update which will allow me to use the plugin?


This is a known issue now, and all focus is on fixing this. In the mean time, users have reported that the plugin works well if you activate it yourself in the PluginManager.

I will let you know as soon as there is an updated file to download.


Peter


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## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

rudi said:


> A quick question: what mix/settings did you use in Berlin Studio?


I used the default settings in Berlin Studio. I didn't touch anything other than placing the instruments in the corresponding section in the GUI.


----------



## Living Fossil (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> This is a known issue now, and all focus is on fixing this. In the mean time, users have reported that the plugin works well if you activate it yourself in the PluginManager.


Thanks for your fast answer.
Manual activation doesn't work for me unfortunately.

Also, Metaplugin (hosted inside of Logic) doesn't lists the (VST version of) the plugin.


----------



## rudi (Nov 8, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I used the default settings in Berlin Studio. I didn't touch anything other than placing the instruments in the corresponding section in the GUI.


Thank you - it sounds sooooo good!!
I've also noticed how quickly the plugin loads, and how it doesn't glitch at all when switching presets.
A great product


----------



## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> Thanks for your fast answer.
> Manual activation doesn't work for me unfortunately.
> 
> Also, Metaplugin (hosted inside of Logic) doesn't lists the (VST version of) the plugin.


Yeah, manual activation didn't work for me either. 

Did you look in the VST 3 folder? I found it there.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

rudi said:


> Thank you - it sounds sooooo good!!
> I've also noticed how quickly the plugin loads, and how it doesn't glitch at all when switching presets.
> A great product


Thank you very much.

The switching between presets (IRs) is something I could publish about in an AES paper, as far as I know this approach is not used in other convolution products, but I may be wrong. Up to 100 switches per second are technically possible, without additional audio computations. I researched and developed this for later use in real-time 3D audio positioning.


----------



## Living Fossil (Nov 8, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Yeah, manual activation didn't work for me either.
> 
> Did you look in the VST 3 folder? I found it there.


Thank you very much for mentioning it!

I opted Metaplugin to scan the VST3 plugins and now I can use it inside of Metaplugin.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thank you very much.
> 
> The switching between presets (IRs) is something I could publish about in an AES paper, as far as I know this approach is not used in other convolution products, but I may be wrong. Up to 100 switches per second are technically possible, without additional audio computations. I researched and developed this for later use in real-time 3D audio positioning.


You gotta make a copyright on that switching technique!


----------



## manuhz (Nov 8, 2022)

Tested on dry samples and close/spot mics sources... Hands down, this is simply amazing!

To my hears it sounds best adding some wideness and saturation to the original source signals (MStereoSpread from MeldaProduction is great exactly for this). I wish that function was already included in the plugin... maybe in a near future??

Congratulations @Peter Emanuel Roos and all the best!!!


----------



## Loerpert (Nov 8, 2022)

You all just convinced me. Did my order. Looking forward to playing with it!


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

manuhz said:


> Tested on dry samples and close/spot mics sources... Hands down, this is simply amazing!
> 
> To my hears it sounds best adding some wideness and saturation to the original source signals (MStereoSpread from MeldaProduction is great exactly for this). I wish that function was already included in the plugin... maybe in a near future??
> 
> Congratulations @Peter Emanuel Roos and all the best!!!


Thanks!

I tested the regular Mid-Side coding, but I did not like the results (yet). When the dust settles a bit and I am working on new functionality the width is certainly high on my list. I will also research decorrelation techniques etc. (needed for a future surround version).
M-S has also side effects (pun) in the phase and frequency department.
I have also experimented with manipulating the cross-channel information ("the middle channels in true stereo"), also not useful in my opinion.

Saturation might be interesting for my other (upcoming) plugins, but I want to have Berlin Studio focused on real/realistic acoustics.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> You gotta make a copyright on that switching technique!


Haha, well, anything you make / create is copyrighted already by law. 
It's simply a trade secret as they call it in business, there is much time and effort invested in my core technology, of which I am not using everything at the moment.
So I won't publish anything


----------



## constaneum (Nov 8, 2022)

Has anyone tried out with CSS spot mics?


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Nov 8, 2022)

Hi Peter,

the sound is incredible indeed, but something seems odd on my system (BigSur, Logic 10.7.4). I just did a test run with a very basic project. 1 Instrument, 1 bus, that's it and the CPU already goes crazy as soon as Berlin Studio is enabled. My templates runs flawlessly with 100+ tracks usually. It did not pass validation and I had to activate it manually though. Any idea what the problem might be ?


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

constaneum said:


> Has anyone tried out with CSS spot mics?


In my previous IT work as UX/UI designer CSS was a styling language for the web 
Still playing with it for my website. I hope I can go back to my DAW some day...


----------



## constaneum (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> In my previous IT work as UX/UI designer CSS was a styling language for the web
> Still playing with it for my website. I hope I can go back to my DAW some day...


purchased ! can't wait to try. waiting for email link


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> the sound is incredible indeed, but something seems odd on my system (BigSur, Logic 10.7.4). I just did a test run with a very basic project. 1 Instrument, 1 bus, that's it and the CPU already goes crazy as soon as Berlin Studio is enabled. My templates runs flawlessly with 100+ tracks usually. It did not pass validation and I had to activate it manually though. Any idea what the problem might be ?


I will check this as well in my searches for the AU validation issue. The plugin should be relatively light on the CPU, the internal convolution engine is very efficient. I benchmark the engine in the form of my BM7 plugin against another wellknown product with Bricasti IRs, and it uses 50% less CPU.
Berlin uses three engines in paralel, so it needs some more CPU, but still, I have once used 16 instances in Reaper on a modest i5 laptop with CPU around 50%. So your situation is not good. Will include this in my checks and tests.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

constaneum said:


> purchased ! can't wait to try. waiting for email link


You guys keep me away from automating this handling in the shop! 🙃 

10 minutes from now


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## Zanshin (Nov 8, 2022)

My initial honeymoon impression is this is a pretty awesome plugin. Fantastic work Peter.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> My initial honeymoon impression is this is a pretty awesome plugin. Fantastic work Peter.


Thank you so much!


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 8, 2022)

Hmmm. . . damn. . . I've resisted this witchery, this wallet-raiding voodoo. . . why'd ya have to go and post those CSB samples? *sigh* Here's my money. . . .


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## rudi (Nov 8, 2022)

JeffvR said:


> All sounds great! How does it compare to MIR and the Teldex stage?


Just did a quick 'n dirty trumpet example in Berlin Studio followed by MIR3D Pro Teldex Wide. The solo trumpet is from Cinesample Brass Core, using the "close" mic.

Both samples use their default settings. Note I had to set the MIR location approximately by hand as you can place instruments anywhere in MIR.

View attachment Test Trumpet - Berlin Studio - MIR3D Pro Teldex Wide.mp3


I didn't try to match the exact tone as there is a ton of settings in MIR but it should give you an idea of how the spaces sound.

MIR lets you tweak virtually _every _parameter including orientation, mic type, directivity, air absorption, mic offset, distance dependent volume scaling, width etc.

Personally I love the immediacy, clarity, beautiful sound, and ease of use of Berlin Studio.


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## manuhz (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I tested the regular Mid-Side coding, but I did not like the results (yet). When the dust settles a bit and I am working on new functionality the width is certainly high on my list. I will also research decorrelation techniques etc. (needed for a future surround version).
> M-S has also side effects (pun) in the phase and frequency department.
> ...


I was not necessary talking about M/S encoding, just frequency band decorrelation and harmonic saturation. Both, used conveniently can increase the sense of realism particularly when using static mono sources. And as pointed before, it works pretty well on Berlin Studio using the Melda plugin. Just give it a try!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

rudi said:


> Just did a quick 'n dirty trumpet example in Berlin Studio followed by MIR3D Pro Teldex Wide. The solo trumpet is from Cinesample Brass Core, using the "close" mic.
> 
> Both samples use their default settings. Note I had to set the MIR location approximately by hand as you can place instruments anywhere in MIR.
> 
> ...


Great contribution, thank you very much

I have once been in the VSL Synchron studio for a few days, for a mixing workshop with Dennis Sands and had a few brief talks about convo reverbs with the guys there, very interesting.

Such an impressive recording hall and control room!

I have opinions on what you can and also cannot do with IRs, that have led to the current options in Berlin. The "Size" option is a last-minute add-in, that I liked very much when I made it for my Gemini BM7, but I was at first very opposed to stuff like that, because it inflates the Teldex studio with acoustic helium  and goes against my initial concept of maximum realism.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

manuhz said:


> I was not necessary talking about M/S encoding, just frequency band decorrelation and harmonic saturation. Both, used conveniently can increase the sense of realism particularly when using static mono sources. And as pointed before, it works pretty well on Berlin Studio using the Melda plugin. Just give it a try!


Top, will do!


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## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I will check this as well in my searches for the AU validation issue. The plugin should be relatively light on the CPU, the internal convolution engine is very efficient. I benchmark the engine in the form of my BM7 plugin against another wellknown product with Bricasti IRs, and it uses 50% less CPU.
> Berlin uses three engines in paralel, so it needs some more CPU, but still, I have once used 16 instances in Reaper on a modest i5 laptop with CPU around 50%. So your situation is not good. Will include this in my checks and tests.


I'm actually seeing high single-core CPU load on my system as well, even with a single instance, sometimes overloading depending on the instrument I use. I was putting it down to the fact that I was using the VST 3 version via Blue Cat Patchwork, but maybe that's not the reason. I'm in Logic Pro 10.7.4 (Big Sur).


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## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos How do we report bugs/issues? I've found something with the EQ, but not sure how you prefer to communicate.


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## Living Fossil (Nov 8, 2022)

Ok, so far I've tried it on quite some libraries:
VSL woodwinds (the old & good ones), VSL harps, Modern Scoring Brass, Vista, Century Strings, Nashville Scoring strings, Soniccouture Celesta, HY Ascend Piano

The plugin is fantastic, that's for sure.
The approach with the different Mic options is simply amazing.
I guess I will make small adjustments over the next weeks each time i start working with fresh ears.

There's one really important feature request:

It would be a huge improvement if we could address different instances as "groups"
So, adjusting the Mic-Mix in one instance would also affect all other instances that share the same group. 
E.g. in the "Strings" group adjusting the Decca would happen in the same time for V1, V2, VA, VC and DB.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Kalli said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos How do we report bugs/issues? I've found something with the EQ, but not sure how you prefer to communicate.


For now, send me an email, either to support at samplicity or just to the one that I used myself. I am curious! Cheers


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## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> For now, send me an email, either to support at samplicity or just to the one that I used myself. I am curious! Cheers


Thanks, I'll send you an email!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I'm actually seeing high single-core CPU load on my system as well, even with a single instance, sometimes overloading depending on the instrument I use. I was putting it down to the fact that I was using the VST 3 version via Blue Cat Patchwork, but maybe that's not the reason. I'm in Logic Pro 10.7.4 (Big Sur).


Kalli, I will include this in the current investigations.

For everyone reading and maybe owning this plugin, I can disclose this technical detail:

All processing in Berlin Studio is done during the "callback from the host". This is not ideal, but:

The convolution engine I developed during the last 1,5 year (this is complex stuff) has a multithreading feature. The calculations that take longer are done outside of the "callback" from the host. This makes efficient use of the computer's multi-core/threading options.

There are discussions on the JUCE forum since this summer about audio thread problems on Macs with Silicon chips, where the cores are not treated equally. Developers using audio multithreading have reported serious issues.

Since I also use JUCE  I have disabled the convolution threads in my plugins until this is all settled and well implemented in Juce. There are already changes in Juce, but they are "breaking ones", forcing me to refactor some stuff and again do serious unit testing. Long story short: one of the upcoming updates will make the plugin more efficient in its CPU use.

Doing all the processing during the call-back may lead to single core spikes, if you have a lot of processing going on in the computer, or use very very short buffers and/or high samplerates.
I have no idea if this is occurring here, but I wanted to comment on the single core observations mentioned above.

I suspect that the reported AU issues are related to parameter handling and I am focusing on that area now, not on processing.


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 8, 2022)

Using Logic 10.7.5 seems to be a no-go at present. All settings produce massive distortion. It affects my whole system.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Using Logic 10.7.5 seems to be a no-go at present. All settings produce massive distortion. It affects my whole system.


I run Logic 10.7.4 on an i7 Intel MacBookPro with Monterey 12.5.1 and it sounds good.
Can you be more specific about your no-go?


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## Kalli (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Kalli, I will include this in the current investigations.
> 
> For everyone reading and maybe owning this plugin, I can disclose this technical detail:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation!

Just to clarify, the CPU issue may well be related to my system (although I don't have many processes running at the same time). I just wanted to inform you since you're looking into it anyway. I've read that some CPU issues have been resolved by updating to Logic Pro 10.7.5, but I'm still on Big Sur so I haven't been able to try that yet.


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I run Logic 10.7.4 on an i7 Intel MacBookPro with Monterey 12.5.1 and it sounds good.
> Can you be more specific about your no-go?


I am running Ventura with Logic 10.7.5 on an M1 Mac Studio with an Apogee Duet (2, I think). I had to validate the plugin manually, and when I put it on a track, all sound becomes massively distorted system-wide. So if I put Logic in the background and play a .wav file or a Youtube video (for example), the sound is distorted. Returning to Logic and removing the Berlin plugin restores my system to normal.


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## wunderflo (Nov 8, 2022)

very promising plugin! Sorry, if this has been stated before (couldn't find it): How long will the intro sale last?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

wunderflo said:


> very promising plugin! Sorry, if this has been stated before (couldn't find it): How long will the intro sale last?


Thanks, well, I still have had no time for updating the website (it involves a bit more than text), so let's say until next Thursday?
I find support more important at the moment


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I am running Ventura with Logic 10.7.5 on an M1 Mac Studio with an Apogee Duet (2, I think). I had to validate the plugin manually, and when I put it on a track, all sound becomes massively distorted system-wide. So if I put Logic in the background and play a .wav file or a Youtube video (for example), the sound is distorted. Returning to Logic and removing the Berlin plugin restores my system to normal.


Thanks for the details. I believe this is the first report of distorted output. At what sample rate is Logic running?
I will test the plugin with Logic on a machine with a Silicon chip as well.


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thanks for the details. I believe this is the first report of distorted output. At what sample rate is Logic running?
> I will test the plugin with Logic on a machine with a Silicon chip as well.


Switching to 48 Khz solved some issues. 44.1 doesn't work at all. At 48, I still have quite a few pops and clicks, and the surround mics don't work at all.

Edit: only the decca tree sort of works, but just sort of.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Switching to 48 Khz solved some issues. 44.1 doesn't work at all. At 48, I still have quite a few pops and clicks, and the surround mics don't work at all.


A very strange combination, I am really puzzled.
If the surround channel does not work then the others should not work either. 
Switching between sample rates does not do any re-processing on the internal impulse responses, the plugin just loads different versions from a single library file.
My gut feeling is that this installed library file is not OK. 
The noise you experienced also hints in this direction, convolving with bad data is terrible.
Can you try to re-install from the package?
If you want to remove any previous files, send me a PM, I can tell you were the files are installed.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Nov 8, 2022)

Anyone tried this on Windows?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Anyone tried this on Windows?


Yes, moi - no, kidding, I am one of the few developers who prefers to work on Windows instead of with the (imo) terrible Apple development tools


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## Heinigoldstein (Nov 8, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Thanks for the explanation!
> 
> Just to clarify, the CPU issue may well be related to my system (although I don't have many processes running at the same time). I just wanted to inform you since you're looking into it anyway. I've read that some CPU issues have been resolved by updating to Logic Pro 10.7.5, but I'm still on Big Sur so I haven't been able to try that yet.


It might be related to your (and my) system running BigSur, but it is definitely related to Logic. No CPU issues in Reaper and no issues within VE-Pro. Well at least with AU. VST doesn't show up at all in VE-Pro !


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## Loerpert (Nov 8, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Anyone tried this on Windows?


Yup. Using Win11 and Studio One 6 here. Works great!

I'm very impressed by this plugin @Peter Emanuel Roos. Just the tool I needed. Totally worth the price


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> It might be related to your (and my) system running BigSur, but it is definitely related to Logic. No CPU issues in Reaper and no issues within VE-Pro. Well at least with AU. VST doesn't show up at all in VE-Pro !


It does not show up, because VSL does not support the current VST3 format.

The old VST2 standard has been completely dropped for developers already in 2018. Which was announced many, many years before that.

I am not allowed by Steinberg to create VST2 versions (it would be very easy to do), since I did not get a licence contract before 2018.

VST3 is not new at all, I am really puzzled why VSL does not support it.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> Yup. Using Win11 and Studio One 6 here. Works great!
> 
> I'm very impressed by this plugin @Peter Emanuel Roos. Just the tool I needed. Totally worth the price


Great to hear, thanks!


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Yes, moi - no, kidding, I am one of the few developers who prefers to work on Windows instead of with the (imo) terrible Apple development tools


Windows 10?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Windows 10?


Yes


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> A very strange combination, I am really puzzled.
> If the surround channel does not work then the others should not work either.
> Switching between sample rates does not do any re-processing on the internal impulse responses, the plugin just loads different versions from a single library file.
> My gut feeling is that this installed library file is not OK.
> ...


Ok. I’m out until tonight CST, but I’ll fiddle with it this evening and get back to you.

Edit: I have not tried to run it through VEPRO, so I’ll try that as well.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Ok. I’m out until tonight CST, but I’ll fiddle with it this evening and get back to you.
> 
> Edit: I have not tried to run it through VEPRO, so I’ll try that as well.


VEPro does not support the VST3 plugin format


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 8, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Anyone tried this on Windows?


Yes, Windows 11. No problems in the time I’ve spent with it.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 8, 2022)

I think I know what can cause the AU issue(s). I will go systematically through all of my code, it is probably a deviation from a standard pattern or rule on how to handle parameters.


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## AEF (Nov 8, 2022)

I have played with this briefly. This is an astounding plugin. The interface is absolutely gorgeous. The sound is top notch. Works smoothly in Cubase 12 on a Mac. Well done!


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## JeffvR (Nov 8, 2022)

rudi said:


> Just did a quick 'n dirty trumpet example in Berlin Studio followed by MIR3D Pro Teldex Wide. The solo trumpet is from Cinesample Brass Core, using the "close" mic.
> 
> Both samples use their default settings. Note I had to set the MIR location approximately by hand as you can place instruments anywhere in MIR.
> 
> ...


Interesting comparison! MIR sounds a bit further away (could be the settings) and a bit more "metallic" in a way. I think Berlin Studio used the studio in the narrow setting?


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## rudi (Nov 8, 2022)

@JeffvR , I agree about MIR sounding more distant and having some sort of slight ring to it. I am pretty sure it's down to me not tweaking the settings - there are so many of them.

I've re-run the example, this time with the narrow MIR Teldex hall.


View attachment Test Trumpet - Berling Studio - MIR3D Pro Teldex Narrow.mp3


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## AEF (Nov 8, 2022)

My first go round with CSB and Berlin Studio. Literally just plonked this in, close mics, default horn normal preset. Nothing else done, no eq or compression.


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## AEF (Nov 8, 2022)

AI Solo Oboe, spot 1:


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## aileero (Nov 8, 2022)

FL Studio user here with no problems so far! 
I tested a little melody I made with Sample Modeling Trombone, which is about as bone dry as it gets. 
Because of that, I used no dry signal and boosted the surround mics a bit. 
View attachment SM Trombone Berlin Studio.mp3


Dry Version:
View attachment SM Trombone Dry.mp3


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## Nashi_VI (Nov 8, 2022)

aileero said:


> FL Studio user here with no problems so far!
> I tested a little melody I made with Sample Modeling Trombone, which is about as bone dry as it gets.
> Because of that, I used no dry signal and boosted the surround mics a bit.
> View attachment SM Trombone Berlin Studio.mp3
> ...


How is the latency in FL? no need to tweak anything on the wrapper in the processing section?


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## aileero (Nov 8, 2022)

Nashi_VI said:


> How is the latency in FL? no need to tweak anything on the wrapper in the processing section?


There doesn't appear to be any latency, and it worked right out of the box for me. Usually there's always something wrong with running plugins in FL Studio, but everything seems to work fine, though I haven't tried it on a larger project yet.


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## tabulius (Nov 8, 2022)

Room sounds great! I would still use Kontakt's default impulses with the Infinite series, because for some reason the sections just sound better and without phasing issues. When playing solo that is of course a different story.

But here is an example with Vista violins (1st), CSS 2nd violins, doubled with Bohemian solo violins, and Sample modeling trumpet. I just played this quickly by ear, so please don't mind any wrong notes or badly played parts. All are run by their own Berlin Studio inserts with a few EQ tweaks and balance adjustments in the Berlin Studio plugin and in the master.

WET:
View attachment BS Test WET.mp3


DRY:
View attachment BS Test DRY.mp3


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## Loerpert (Nov 8, 2022)

tabulius said:


> Room sounds great! I would still use Kontakt's default impulses with the Infinite series, because for some reason the sections just sound better and without phasing issues. When playing solo that is of course a different story.
> 
> But here is an example with Vista violins (1st), CSS 2nd violins, doubled with Bohemian solo violins, and Sample modeling trumpet. I just played this quickly by ear, so please don't mind any wrong notes or badly played parts. All are run by their own Berlin Studio inserts with a few EQ tweaks and balance adjustments in the Berlin Studio plugin and in the master.
> 
> ...


Not a single wrong note in there. Sounds great !


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## joeunsoo (Nov 8, 2022)

I reported it via email with the video... and more test

My M1 Macbook Air has distortion noise.(sounds like a bit crush)
- macOS 12.6.1 Monterey, M1, 16GB
- 44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192 kHz
- AU/VST3
- Ableton Live 11/UA LUNA (Failed to load plugin in Studio One 5.5 in M1)

but on Intel Macbook Pro 2015 (Monterey) were work fine.
- macOS 12.6 Monterey, i7 2.5GHz, 16GB
- 44.1/48/88.2/96 kHz
- AU/VST3
- Ableton Live 11, Studio One 5.5

and Sounds is good.

- 2022/11/19 add : v1.0.2 Update & Fixed!


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## Trash Panda (Nov 8, 2022)

Nashi_VI said:


> How is the latency in FL? no need to tweak anything on the wrapper in the processing section?


Studio One shows 0.0 ms latency for the plugin. CPU usage is surprisingly efficient as well.


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## Heinigoldstein (Nov 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> It does not show up, because VSL does not support the current VST3 format.
> 
> The old VST2 standard has been completely dropped for developers already in 2018. Which was announced many, many years before that.
> 
> ...


Oh man, pretty confusing , I feel your pain


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 8, 2022)

I have reinstalled the plugin on my M1 Mac Studio Max 64GB, and the results are the same. Based on my experiences and what @joeunsoo reported above, I would guess that it is a no-go on the M1 Mac.


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## Saxer (Nov 8, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I have reinstalled the plugin on my M1 Mac Studio Max 64GB, and the results are the same. Based on my experiences and what @joeunsoo reported above, I would guess that it is a no-go on the M1 Mac.


Is is native M1?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

Saxer said:


> Is is native M1?


The plugin is a universal binary, both Intel and Silicon layers are specifially built for their target processor. And tested on many Intel and Silicon Macs.

I suspect this is related to the now known issue with the AU validator "rejecting" the plugin for a problem with the parameter exchange with the host (which I can replicate now).

At this moment I do not expect that the processing code has problems, in spite of the few reports of bad sounds, otherwise it would really have also been found with the VST3 version on a Mac. These plugin "layers" (AU and VST3) are very thin - the signal processing is identical internally.

I am doing my best to resolve this and I am already zooming in on the AUval issue and will also check for any signal clipping during these tests.

I hope that the people affected will have a few days patience - if not, you may claim a refund.

Cheers


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

JeffvR said:


> Interesting comparison! MIR sounds a bit further away (could be the settings) and a bit more "metallic" in a way. I think Berlin Studio used the studio in the narrow setting?


No, I have used the microphones as set up for a recording session by Orchestral Tools for one of their libraries.

The next day there was a recording with/for Danny Elfman, maybe with the same placement of the mics. We were not allowed to change the mic pre-amp settings (we did, actually).

I believe that VSL have used their own microphones for sampling the room according to their MIR multi direction concepts.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

rudi said:


> @JeffvR , I agree about MIR sounding more distant and having some sort of slight ring to it. I am pretty sure it's down to me not tweaking the settings - there are so many of them.
> 
> I've re-run the example, this time with the narrow MIR Teldex hall.
> 
> ...


VSL must be using some kind of interpolation with the impulse responses to be able to offer direction changes. I am curious about their maths for that and have opinions on the premise.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

aileero said:


> There doesn't appear to be any latency, and it worked right out of the box for me. Usually there's always something wrong with running plugins in FL Studio, but everything seems to work fine, though I haven't tried it on a larger project yet.


The plugin has zero latency, 1 sample in returns 1 processed sample. Not a single sample of delay.
This may be confusing to some, but zero-latency is not related to buffer sizes.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

tabulius said:


> Room sounds great! I would still use Kontakt's default impulses with the Infinite series, because for some reason the sections just sound better and without phasing issues. When playing solo that is of course a different story.
> 
> But here is an example with Vista violins (1st), CSS 2nd violins, doubled with Bohemian solo violins, and Sample modeling trumpet. I just played this quickly by ear, so please don't mind any wrong notes or badly played parts. All are run by their own Berlin Studio inserts with a few EQ tweaks and balance adjustments in the Berlin Studio plugin and in the master.
> 
> ...


I am curious what you mean with "phasing issues". In Berlin Studio? That is mathematically not possible in convolution with steady input.

Are you aware that Kontakt does not do True Stereo processing? Is it either mono-to-stereo, or (worse) stereo-to-stereo, where off-center sounds have an off-center reverb. I bet mono-to-stereo.

I am really curious!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

joeunsoo said:


> I reported it via email with the video... and more test
> 
> My M1 Macbook Air has distortion noise.(sounds like a bit crush)
> - macOS 12.6.1 Monterey, M1, 16GB
> ...


Thanks for the details and the email report


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## JeffvR (Nov 9, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> VSL must be using some kind of interpolation with the impulse responses to be able to offer direction changes. I am curious about their maths for that and have opinions on the premise.


Isn't VSL using Ambisonics? Which is a different method right?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

JeffvR said:


> Isn't VSL using Ambisonics? Which is a different method right?


MIR and Berlin Studio both use convolution to recreate the recorded/captured acoustics.
Ambisonics has no definitions or processing for delays and echoes. It is a "projection" system in mathematical "space" terms.

Maybe it works... interesting research topic for me!


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## Living Fossil (Nov 9, 2022)

Ok, with using the plugin as VST3 inside of Metaplugin (Logic 10.6.3, Catalina) the whole thing is still pretty buggy. 
With several instances loaded I have several freezes when trying to bounce offline.

I'm really looking forward to an AU version that works...


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## Nicola74 (Nov 9, 2022)

Great plugin, I am really enjoying it!!
Only one question: to be able to use it it seems I have to keep the PC connected to internet, otherwise it doesn't work. Am I doing anything wrong or is there a workaround?


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## tabulius (Nov 9, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I am curious what you mean with "phasing issues". In Berlin Studio? That is mathematically not possible in convolution with steady input.
> 
> Are you aware that Kontakt does not do True Stereo processing? Is it either mono-to-stereo, or (worse) stereo-to-stereo, where off-center sounds have an off-center reverb. I bet mono-to-stereo.
> 
> I am really curious!


It is not a fault of reverb itself, but how the Infinite is programmed. 6 horns are 6 different solo horns. Infinite’s build in hall impulses don’t have phasing issues and I don’t know what kind of magic is going on there. But running the close mics thru a third party plugins, the sound just has some phasing problems.


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 9, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> The plugin is a universal binary, both Intel and Silicon layers are specifially built for their target processor. And tested on many Intel and Silicon Macs.
> 
> I suspect this is related to the now known issue with the AU validator "rejecting" the plugin for a problem with the parameter exchange with the host (which I can replicate now).
> 
> ...


I don't have much time this morning to play with it, but when I read @Saxer 's post, I thought, "Hey it is worth a shot." So I opened Logic in Rosetta mode, and so far as I can tell with my limited fiddling, the plugin works fine. Perhaps others can verify. (And hell, maybe this is expected behavior--I wouldn't know that.)

Beautiful sound, BTW!


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## leonardo (Nov 9, 2022)

I don't know if this has been asked already but will there be a demo version?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

Nicola74 said:


> Great plugin, I am really enjoying it!!
> Only one question: to be able to use it it seems I have to keep the PC connected to internet, otherwise it doesn't work. Am I doing anything wrong or is there a workaround?


I just read your question and I am checking it with the vendor of this licensing service. My intention was to have semi-online use, so certainly not forcing you to be always connected.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I don't have much time this morning to play with it, but when I read @Saxer 's post, I thought, "Hey it is worth a shot." So I opened Logic in Rosetta mode, and so far as I can tell with my limited fiddling, the plugin works fine. Perhaps others can verify. (And hell, maybe this is expected behavior--I wouldn't know that.)
> 
> Beautiful sound, BTW!


Thank you for trying this, it may help me with my investigations. This means I have to pay extra attention to the Silicon specific parts of the software.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

leonardo said:


> I don't know if this has been asked already but will there be a demo version?


There will be, but not before the AU / Mac issue(s) are fixed.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 9, 2022)

I am zooming in on a point in the code where something is not OK anyway, in a Mac Silicon environment (at least). This is slow work, but I will not let go  
This is for the mentioned issues with strange sounds and the input for the EQ. 
I do my best not to bother you with too much technical terms, I know I often do that 
The AU validation is probably something else that may be quicker to find and fix.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 10, 2022)

Nicola74 said:


> Great plugin, I am really enjoying it!!
> Only one question: to be able to use it it seems I have to keep the PC connected to internet, otherwise it doesn't work. Am I doing anything wrong or is there a workaround?


Update: unfortunately this is in my code - but it will be changed to "semi-offline" in any future update, like a soon upcoming fix for the AU things.


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## rudi (Nov 10, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Update: unfortunately this is in my code - but it will be changed to "semi-offline" in any future update, like a soon upcoming fix for the AU things.


Thanks Peter! It'll be interesting to know what "semi-offline" involves. It also might be a good idea for it to be made clear in the description/requirements of the plugin!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 10, 2022)

rudi said:


> Thanks Peter! It'll be interesting to know what "semi-offline" involves. It also might be a good idea for it to be made clear in the description/requirements of the plugin!


I agree, but it's a bit busy at the moment  noted
Several weeks of offline use without internet access, I would expect that myself as user


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## rudi (Nov 10, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I agree, but it's a bit busy at the moment  noted
> Several weeks of offline use without internet access, I would expect that myself as user


No problem! I understand how extremely busy things are for you at the moment .
I'd also like to highlight the excellent customer support you provide, and how outstanding Berlin Studio is.


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## Living Fossil (Nov 10, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos : Maybe you didn't see my last message (wouldn't surprise me...  ),
however, the problem with offline bouncing is serious at the moment (which is inside of Metaplugin inside of Logic).

Usually it starts bouncing for a short while and then finishes the process without leaving a bounced snippet. Afterwards, Logic shows me the spinning ball.

I hope, this will be no further issue once the AU version is working.

(Offline bouncing is mandatory for the way I work, with lots of CPU hogs on the Masterbus)


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 10, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos : Maybe you didn't see my last message (wouldn't surprise me...  ),
> however, the problem with offline bouncing is serious at the moment (which is inside of Metaplugin inside of Logic).
> 
> Usually it starts bouncing for a short while and then finishes the process without leaving a bounced snippet. Afterwards, Logic shows me the spinning ball.
> ...


I know in which specific part / lines the issue with Logic on Silicon is... 
It results in huge internal values, that clip, distort or silence the host. 
I guess it also causes your offline bounce problems, as that uses the same incorrect calculation(s). 
It would be nice if I could send out a well tested update tomorrow. 
I will also run offline bounce tests - noted


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## Living Fossil (Nov 10, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I know in which specific part / lines the issue with Logic on Silicon is...


p.s. I'm still on an Intel machine...


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 10, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> p.s. I'm still on an Intel machine...


Lol, then there is a third "Logic" issue. I expected it to be explainable by what I found today.
Will test that as well thoroughly in a realistic session setup, with debuggers.
Sorry if I miss details, a bit busy


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## Living Fossil (Nov 10, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Lol, then there is a third "Logic" issue. I expected it to be explainable by what I found today.
> Will test that as well thoroughly in a realistic session setup, with debuggers.
> Sorry if I miss details, a bit busy


Honestly, I think it could also be related to Metaplugin itself.
When there is an AU version, I can immediately report back if the issue still is there.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 10, 2022)

Alex Pfeffer has posted a review on Youtube - just wow...

This new reverb plugin is groundbreaking | Samplicity Berlin Studio


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 10, 2022)

Peter, one question:

Close mics of instruments - they contain early reflections that tell our brain that the instrument in question is not very far away from us as listener, right?

When we add Berlin Studio to such an instrument, won’t the instrument’s “close mic ERs“ mean our brain is perceiving the resulting sound as “not quite right”?

Hope it’s understandable!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 10, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Peter, one question:
> 
> Close mics of instruments - they contain early reflections that tell our brain that the instrument in question is not very far away from us as listener, right?
> 
> ...


That is actually what the delay(s) in the plugin are/were meant for. Especially the one in the dry input channel.

There is an approach used by a number of classical recording engineers:
- Use overall microphone sets, like the Decca Tree, or what you often see in concert halls hanging from the ceiling: an AB-Pair
- But also use spot mics at low levels
- Delay the sound of these spot mics with a time equivalent to the instance to the center Decca microphone
- This merges the sounds from the spot mics and the global mics and in the case of samples also puts early reflections back in a correct range

What it also does is - I discovered more recently - is smoothen the transients contained in the dry signal (!), and making them more distant by the EQ effect this has.

For woodwinds, for instance, if I remember well, that delay of the dry signal should be around 18 msec.

My intention is to include an auto-align option in a future version that does this automatically. I have calculated all time delays and thus distances for the stage positions.

This will be done, not by delaying the direct sound, but by skipping all the IR samples until the first significant sound in the Decca center. Meaning that the dry sound will still play immediately, but the global mics start "earlier". I find this very effective and have used it in all my current demos on the Samplicity site.

When we work with samples, there will be no more subtle break between the dry sound, its early reflections and what the global mics pick up. 

In this first release I personally find the delays confusing, maybe they should go out, because people may not understand their short range (which is already equivalent to more than the studio's depth). It is different from pre-delays in regular reverbs, this is for such subtle time alignments.

To come back to your question about our perception, if you would look at the IRs from the Decca for the woodwinds, you would see that the ERs start later, after a near silence. Using a sample where the ERs start right away is in theory (and in my view) indeed not the best option, but I am not sure if many people would notice... A nerdy person, like me :-D would experiment with this delay stuff...

A very good topic, that will certainly make it into a blog post, that I hope to be able to write...
Programming can nearly be put aside for a while, then the site and shop need a good update, support with ticketing, FAQ etc, advertizing and then good documentation. Because who reads manuals? 

Cheers


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 10, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> That is actually what the delay(s) in the plugin are/were meant for. Especially the one in the dry input channel.
> 
> There is an approach used by a number of classical recording engineers:
> - Use overall microphone sets, like the Decca Tree, or what you often see in concert halls hanging from the ceiling: an AB-Pair
> ...


Auto-align sounds like a good idea. All this stuff is complex!


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## Trash Panda (Nov 10, 2022)

This plugin is some dark ass voodoo magic. Even MIR couldn't make me like the Sample Modeling Horns. Now...

Dry (early reflections disabled):
View attachment The Force SM Horns a4 (dry).mp3


Berlin Studio (-6 dB Close, 0 Decca, AB muted, -9 Surround):
View attachment The Force SM Horns a4 (Berlin Studio).mp3


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Would be interesting to hear somebody with one of the OT Berlin or JXL libraries compare a tree mic recording from OT to an OT close mic + Berlin Studio tree mic recording.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Would be interesting to hear somebody with one of the OT Berlin or JXL libraries compare a tree mic recording from OT to an OT close mic + Berlin Studio tree mic recording.


I’ll post something up this evening. Looking for shorts or longs or both?


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## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 10, 2022)

This plugin is out??


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I’ll post something up this evening. Looking for shorts or longs or both?


Whatever you can do! Thank you!


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## Trash Panda (Nov 10, 2022)

Spot 2 through Berlin Studio Tree vs Library Recorded Tree

BB Trumpet Ens Staccatos
View attachment BB Trumpets Samp vs Tree.mp3


JXL Trumpets a3 Staccatos
View attachment JXL Trumpets a3 Samp vs Tree.mp3


BB Horns a4 Staccatos
View attachment BB Horns a4 Samp vs Tree.mp3


JXL Horns a4 Staccatos
View attachment JXL Horns a4 Samp vs Tree.mp3


BB Trombones Ens Staccatos
View attachment BB Bones Ens Samp vs Tree.mp3


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 10, 2022)

Very interesting, thank you!

With the trumpets:
Do you think the difference in "sharpness/transients" could be explained by the amount of the dry signal channel used here in Berlin Studio?
Or am I actually hearing different samples or sample layers?


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## carlc (Nov 10, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> This plugin is out??


It is available for pre-order which I believe gets you an early release version: https://samplicity.com/


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 10, 2022)

carlc said:


> It is available for pre-order which I believe gets you an early release version: https://samplicity.com/


Actually, it has been released, but two issues in the AU / Logic and in the Silicon version kept me from updating the site, leaving it in this pre-order state until the fix is sent out (this weekend). Both causes have been located.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Spot 2 through Berlin Studio Tree vs Library Recorded Tree
> 
> BB Trumpet Ens Staccatos
> View attachment BB Trumpets Samp vs Tree.mp3
> ...


Thanks for doing this! The JXL horns sounded most similar, but the library tree mic has a punch that’s missing in the Berlin Studio version for all of these. Perhaps a different wet/dry balance would change that?


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## Trash Panda (Nov 10, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Very interesting, thank you!
> 
> With the trumpets:
> Do you think the difference in "sharpness/transients" could be explained by the amount of the dry signal channel used here in Berlin Studio?
> Or am I actually hearing different samples or sample layers?


Could be because I’m using Spot 2 instead of Spot 1. I seem to recall Spot 1 being more focus on the first chair and Spot 2 was for the whole section. Might just be different mic types though.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Thanks for doing this! The JXL horns sounded most similar, but the library tree mic has a punch that’s missing in the Berlin Studio version for all of these. Perhaps a different wet/dry balance would change that?


I’m not using any wet/dry balance. It’s 100% wet from the decca “mic” in the plugin.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Nov 10, 2022)

The recorded version is clearer but the convo version has doubled the room signal no? Spot mics has room information plus the convo i mean. Could that be what explains the difference? Thanks Thrash Panda.
edited: Just to be clear, i think the differences are marginal imo. I was just wondering what could explain the difference fro a tecknical point of view. Of course a recording of an instrument in a room will alwasy have an edge over dry source plus convo but here it's not an issue. And who would hear the difference in a full mix anyway.


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## TeamLeader (Nov 11, 2022)

Peter this tool sounds fantastic! Thank you so much for devleoping it. Where do I find the user manual. I cant find one after doing the install a few days ago. Thanks!


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## Kalli (Nov 11, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> That is actually what the delay(s) in the plugin are/were meant for. Especially the one in the dry input channel.
> 
> There is an approach used by a number of classical recording engineers:
> - Use overall microphone sets, like the Decca Tree, or what you often see in concert halls hanging from the ceiling: an AB-Pair
> ...


This is fascinating! I learned a lot just from reading this post. Please don't remove the delay options! I didn't fully understand their purpose at first, but will start experimenting now.

UPDATE: Whoa! Increasing the delay of the dry signal really helps glue the signals together. Thanks for the tip!

Case in point: CSW solo flute (close mic only) sounds much more focused with the correct delay setting (18 ms):

Delay OFF:

View attachment CSW Flute 0 ms.mp3


Delay 18 ms:

View attachment CSW Flute 18 ms.mp3


Dry (for reference):

View attachment CSW Flute Dry.mp3



@Peter Emanuel Roos Is there any risk that slightly wrong delay values will introduce phasing issues?

Do you happen to know what the delay of the dry signal should be for the different string sections?


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## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 11, 2022)

Will there be a trial? Would love to try it out


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## tabulius (Nov 11, 2022)

Kalli said:


> This is fascinating! I learned a lot just from reading this post. Please don't remove the delay options! I didn't fully understand their purpose at first, but will start experimenting now.
> 
> UPDATE: Whoa! Increasing the delay of the dry signal really helps glue the signals together. Thanks for the tip!
> 
> ...


It is not uncommon to align close signals to room mics by mixing engineers, so it is great that this is build in. Actually, it would be great that many sample developers would do the same with their room mics.

The cpu usage is impressive, but I’m a bit worried how my future AMD pc will perform with this plugin, but I hope it will run it well enough.


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## Pianist (Nov 11, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I just read your question and I am checking it with the vendor of this licensing service. My intention was to have semi-online use, so certainly not forcing you to be always connected.


Hello, do I understand it correctly that at the moment the plug-in does not work without computer being online (connected to the internet) and the intention was/is that it works without it for some time but after that time it will stop working and it will need to 'call home' in order to go on? Since it uses the iLok licencing system, isn't the iLok key there to give users the option of working offline?
I believe if the plugin really needs to re-licence itself, even from time to time, it should be stated in requirements.


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## Kalli (Nov 12, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Will there be a trial? Would love to try it out


An earlier post said there will be, after the initial issues have been ironed out.


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## Waywyn (Nov 12, 2022)

Hey everyone,

here is a little video:


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## doctoremmet (Nov 12, 2022)




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## AudioLoco (Nov 12, 2022)

Pianist said:


> Hello, do I understand it correctly that at the moment the plug-in does not work without computer being online (connected to the internet) and the intention was/is that it works without it for some time but after that time it will stop working and it will need to 'call home' in order to go on? Since it uses the iLok licencing system, isn't the iLok key there to give users the option of working offline?
> I believe if the plugin really needs to re-licence itself, even from time to time, it should be stated in requirements.


That's an important detail to know... Is that true?

(iLok makes sense because it is supposed to be indipendant from being online and because it makes switching computers and re installing software a breeze.)


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## flea (Nov 12, 2022)

Pianist said:


> I believe if the plugin really needs to re-licence itself, even from time to time, it should be stated in requirements.


I agree 100%. I bought the plug in today and now read here that it is only usable on online computers, which is a no go for me. My computers are not online more often than every few months. Fortunately I haven't downloaded or registered it yet, so hopefully they can cancel the purchase. Will get in touch about this. 
Would have preferred Ilok copy protection. Very very sad.


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## StefanoM (Nov 12, 2022)

I Used it On my Elements CR to add additional Room.

I LOVE IT!


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## David Kudell (Nov 12, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> I Used it On my Elements CR to add additional Room.
> 
> I LOVE IT!



That sounds really great with your percussion library Stefano. I have all the Etheras but somehow missed CR, time to pick it up now!


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## StefanoM (Nov 12, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> That sounds really great with your percussion library Stefano. I have all the Etheras but somehow missed CR, time to pick it up now!


Thanks, mate.

I really love Berlin Studio.

Yesterday I had made another video trying the Multi Instruments from Elements CR with Abbey Road from Waves. Then I saw the release of this Berlin , I got it right away.

I did Elements CR with Two Microphones, also to save space on HD ( being so many instruments, 12 Round Robins...6 Dynamic levels..etc ) and also to contain the final price of the library. And also because I believe that with a good CLOSE and a very good ROOM you can do a lot. But with this Berlin Studio you add LOTS of additional ROOM. And I love it..I will also try it on vocals with the Ethera series. It becomes my reference Reverb for these things.

I love also the User Interface

Well Done Peter !!!!


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## wunderflo (Nov 12, 2022)

alright, bought it - and a new reverb was really the last thing I wanted to buy this year... well... I'll just call this a microphone simulator. 
Can't wait to also experiment with this thing on non-orchestral elements, such as guitars, drums, synths, vocals, etc... just because it says "violins" or "woodwinds" doesn't mean you have to use it for that, of course.


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## Loerpert (Nov 12, 2022)

flea said:


> I agree 100%. I bought the plug in today and now read here that it is only usable on online computers, which is a no go for me. My computers are not online more often than every few months. Fortunately I haven't downloaded or registered it yet, so hopefully they can cancel the purchase. Will get in touch about this.
> Would have preferred Ilok copy protection. Very very sad.


They're working on a fix. The always online stuff was not intentional. But your loss...


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## Loerpert (Nov 12, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos After using this plugin a few days, I can't express how amazing it is. It's a true game changer for me. Thanks so much! I was thinking. A handy feature in a later update could be to add a pan slider to the dry signal so you match the panning with the other mics. Cheers!


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## sislaney (Nov 12, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> There is a new demo online:
> 
> Leandro Gardini has been so kind to let me add a mix of the three reverb channels to a midi rendering by him of Mozart's 40th, with SampleModelling and Infinite sample libraries.
> 
> ...


I can't find this demo.


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## Leandro Gardini (Nov 12, 2022)

For those who still unsure about the quality of Berlin Studio, I've recorded a lesson where I put it to a very hard test.

See the thread:




__





Berlin Studio - The Ultimate Reverb Test


Samplicity has recently released Berlin Studio, and I've been successfully testing it with many wet and dry samples. Everything I throw in it, with some fine adjustments, sounds good. However, I decided to record a new lesson using my method of evaluating a reverb, which I call The Ultimate...




vi-control.net


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## JeffvR (Nov 12, 2022)

Can you route (for example) the surround mics to a different output? So you can really use it on a surround system?


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## muziksculp (Nov 12, 2022)

Hi,

I see Berlin Studio is available to Pre-Order at € 159.00 , so it's not available yet ? 

If it's not yet available, and I Pre-Order, when can I expect it to be released ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Evans (Nov 12, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I see Berlin Studio is available to Pre-Order at € 159.00 , so it's not available yet ?
> 
> ...


It's effectively out.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 12, 2022)

Evans said:


> It's effectively out.


OK. Placing my order now.


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## studioj (Nov 12, 2022)

Will check back into this when AAX is available. I do love the teldex presets in MIR and Altiverb.


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## jcrosby (Nov 12, 2022)

How's the CPU use on this compared to, say, some of the standard algorithmic reverbs and Spaces I/II? (Obviously there will be a difference with algorithmic since this is convolution, I'm just wondering what kind of resources this uses in comparison...)


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 12, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> How's the CPU use on this compared to, say, some of the standard algorithmic reverbs and Spaces I/II? (Obviously there will be a difference with algorithmic since this is convolution, I'm just wondering what kind of resources this uses in comparison...)


CPU seems super low. I added 15 as inserts in a project earlier today to test and that was no problem (and I have a somewhat old I7-8700 (non-K))


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## jcrosby (Nov 12, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> CPU seems super low. I added 15 as inserts in a project earlier today to test and that was no problem (and I have a somewhat old I7-8700 (non-K))


Nice, thanks for that Henrik. Sounds great


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## davidgary73 (Nov 12, 2022)

Most demos or YT videos only demo single instruments and they do sound good by itself. Would be nice to hear a full orchestra with it.


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 12, 2022)

This thing is amazing. I mostly use OT libraries, and this thing allows me to quickly and easily put the rest of my libraries in Teldex with the main orchestra. It works especially well if the library has a spot mic. The only quarrel that I have had is with Tina Guo, and that's probably more about me knowing what I am doing than anything. It is definitely more difficult with an ambient library.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 13, 2022)

ahhh i'm pulling my hair out. I just bought precedence and breeze to achieve the same kind of thing... I love how this sounds. How do they compare?


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## Living Fossil (Nov 13, 2022)

Ok, here's an orchestral track from this week where I used Berlin Studio with a couple of different libraries.

Woodwinds: VSL [the old VI],
Brass: Modern Scoring Brass
Strings: Vista and Nashville Scoring Strings
Harp, Celesta, Perc & Timpani: VSL [the old VI]

There's just a little compression on the master and limiting; no further EQing etc.

(there are quite some different textures during the piece, so the first 5 seconds won't give a proper impression.)


----------



## devonmyles (Nov 13, 2022)

I've just bought this, and I think it's terrific. 
The interface is a breeze to work with and really makes things very easy.
Top, top work and I don't regret the purchase one bit.


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## Evans (Nov 13, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> Brass: Modern Scoring Brass


Nice to see MSB used in a way that plays to its strengths. Just yesterday, I moved it from a slower drive back to a faster SSD with the idea of giving it another go.

Unrelated, anyone use this yet with any SWAM instruments? I'm tempted to go for their current bundle pricing.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 13, 2022)

Anybody done some comparisons to some of the usual suspects of reverb? The CR / SH of the world for example.


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## Noeticus (Nov 13, 2022)

I just bought "Teldex Studio", ah, I mean "Berlin Studio". It is AMAZING!

And a triple "thank you" to Peter Roos for communicating back and forth with me via email on a Sunday!


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## wunderflo (Nov 13, 2022)

I can recommend to also experiment with this plugin in ways it wasn't intended for by not taking the descriptions too literally. For example, I just sent two identical copies of a small dry string section to two instances of Berlin Studio on two separate tracks. I used one instance to position the strings in the woodwinds section and soloed the Decca tree. In the other instance I positioned the strings at the sides and soloed the surround mics. Sounded good!  Of course, you can create many problems this way, but might be worth it to try (if you're not going for a realistic representation of the orchestra).


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## Breaker (Nov 13, 2022)

My template is quite Teldex-heavy, so I'm definitely interested in this. Just have to wait for the trial to see how it runs on an AMD-based system.

Has anybody tried it out yet with solo instruments (vocals, strings, world instruments) to place them in front of the orchestra and give them a splash of that room colour? And if yes, which position(s) would be most suitable?


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 13, 2022)

Breaker said:


> My template is quite Teldex-heavy, so I'm definitely interested in this. Just have to wait for the trial to see how it runs on an AMD-based system.
> 
> Has anybody tried it out yet with solo instruments (vocals, strings, world instruments) to place them in front of the orchestra and give them a splash of that room colour? And if yes, which position(s) would be most suitable?


I am using the mid-wide for a piano in front of the orchestra. I didn't really know what else to choose since there is no allocated place for a soloist.


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## Loerpert (Nov 13, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Anybody done some comparisons to some of the usual suspects of reverb? The CR / SH of the world for example.


Tried it against seventh heaven. I don't have audio snippets right now. Although Seventh Heaven is a beast and does an excellent job at instrument placement, Berlin studio has a bit more realism and complexity to it. I think that has to do with the different mic positions combined as well. Then having IR's for each different position in the room helps as well. 

I now use BS for instrument placement and SH for the final touch on the whole mix.


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## Loerpert (Nov 13, 2022)

Breaker said:


> My template is quite Teldex-heavy, so I'm definitely interested in this. Just have to wait for the trial to see how it runs on an AMD-based system.
> 
> Has anybody tried it out yet with solo instruments (vocals, strings, world instruments) to place them in front of the orchestra and give them a splash of that room colour? And if yes, which position(s) would be most suitable?


I run a Ryzen 3950X. Berlin Studio runs like a charm and I can run multiple instances just fine. Haven't tried to seek the limits though, but it looks like I will never reach that anyway


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 13, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> Tried it against seventh heaven. I don't have audio snippets right now. Although Seventh Heaven is a beast and does an excellent job at instrument placement, Berlin studio has a bit more realism and complexity to it. I think that has to do with the different mic positions combined as well. Then having IR's for each different position in the room helps as well.
> 
> I now use BS for instrument placement and SH for the final touch on the whole mix.


If you get the audio clips and care to post them in the Mixing forum, that'd be awesome!


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## Loerpert (Nov 13, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If you get the audio clips and care to post them in the Mixing forum, that'd be awesome!


Will make something once I'm behind my PC!


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## Trash Panda (Nov 13, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> ahhh i'm pulling my hair out. I just bought precedence and breeze to achieve the same kind of thing... I love how this sounds. How do they compare?


They’re shit. Sorry you wasted your money on them. :(

Berlin Studio is in an entirely different league above P/Br.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> They’re shit. Sorry you wasted your money on them. :(
> 
> Berlin Studio is in an entirely different league above P/Br.


why?


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## Trash Panda (Nov 13, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> why?


Precedence and Breeze have numerous phasing issues that are well covered here on VI-C. They’re not very realistic sounding. They’re also effectively abandonware.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Precedence and Breeze have numerous phasing issues that are well covered here on VI-C. They’re not very realistic sounding. They’re also effectively abandonware.


I just read about the infringement claims... Wtf. Do they offer refunds? 😂


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## Living Fossil (Nov 13, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> ahhh i'm pulling my hair out. I just bought precedence and breeze to achieve the same kind of thing... I love how this sounds. How do they compare?


I wouldn't agree with @Trash Panda (except for the fact that it's most likely abandonware)

Of course, Berlin Studio sounds way better and is indeed a game changer.

Still Precedence and Breeze have their place since they can provide many different room sizes etc.
Nowadays I use Precedence (much) more than Breeze, very often for recorded instruments.
(sometimes I prefer Schoeps Mono Upmix, but this is dependent on the material)

For the phase issues:
I would suggest to use the μ (Mu) mode. The other two can indeed introduce some reduced mono compatibility.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 13, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> I wouldn't agree with @Trash Panda (except for the fact that it's most likely abandonware)
> 
> Of course, Berlin Studio sounds way better and is indeed a game changer.
> 
> ...


So would you say Berlin Studio is more for placing super dry instruments in a room? My intention would be to use default mics on some instruments. Mainly I want to ideally use it with Infinite Brass.


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## Living Fossil (Nov 13, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> So would you say Berlin Studio is more for placing super dry instruments in a room? My intention would be to use default mics on some instruments. Mainly I want to ideally use it with Infinite Brass.


I think Berlin is fantastic for orchestral stuff, and it plays well along with every kind of libraries
(I posted a track on the previous page [#280] with Berlin in combination with different libraries, and
from those only VSL is a dry one. 
You can adjust the mic volumes (and mute some of them) depending on how the library is recorded.

So far it works great with every library I tried (still have to try it with spitfire libraries)

I guess Berlin is great for Infinite Brass.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 13, 2022)

Berlin Studios works well with the Infinite Series. I can post a few examples of using the close mics.


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## StefanoM (Nov 13, 2022)

On My Last Tutorial On Elements Modern Scoring Synth, I've used Berlin Studio also on Hybrid Sound...

What Can I Say?

I LOVE IT ! Its terrific also on the Hybrid Stuff


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## Noeticus (Nov 13, 2022)

Berlin Studio works very VERY well with SWAM.


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## Breaker (Nov 13, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I am using the mid-wide for a piano in front of the orchestra. I didn't really know what else to choose since there is no allocated place for a soloist.


Thanks. I guess that or the Front Stage Wide would make most sense.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Berlin Studios works well with the Infinite Series. I can post a few examples of using the close mics.


that'd be great


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 13, 2022)

Kalli said:


> This is fascinating! I learned a lot just from reading this post. Please don't remove the delay options! I didn't fully understand their purpose at first, but will start experimenting now.
> 
> UPDATE: Whoa! Increasing the delay of the dry signal really helps glue the signals together. Thanks for the tip!
> 
> ...


In a free, not so long away update there will be an auto align option. Not by delaying the dry input, but by skipping the corresponding part in the three mic sets (with fades etc, of course). I will use detailed distance information that I have, not measured in situ, but reconstructed from delay information / speed of sound, etc etc
Maybe half december? I have used it myself, and find it pretty well working.
I happened to check the woodwinds today: 14 msec, and violins 1 7 msec. Closest L or R distance to the Decca center is used.
And on the Decca: maybe in a later version I will offer 3 mono channels Decca L, C and R. As an option. Maybe too confusing for some.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 13, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Will there be a trial? Would love to try it out


There will be a trial when the Pace / iLok stuff is integrated, available somewhere in December.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 13, 2022)

tabulius said:


> It is not uncommon to align close signals to room mics by mixing engineers, so it is great that this is build in. Actually, it would be great that many sample developers would do the same with their room mics.
> 
> The cpu usage is impressive, but I’m a bit worried how my future AMD pc will perform with this plugin, but I hope it will run it well enough.


Higher up, a few days ago I replied with a long text to Hendrik Buus Jensen about this time alignment feature, that will be included in an end-of-year update.

The efficiency of Berlin Studio, and other Samplicity plugins will only improve, because the current version has its multi-threading switched off. This is related to reported issues with the Juce library (that I use) and threading on Silicon chips. Berlin works fine (3 true stereo convolutions in paralel) in the host's callback, but that was not the meant to be the final approach.

The plugins use SIMD libraries that take advantage of the user's processor feature, so if you have AV512 the plugin will use that and be more efficient. The overall compiled code "only" uses AVX optimization, as I know that some people are still using 10 year old computers. I am considering to offer fully AVX512 (and Neon optimized) versions on special request.

Finally, there will be "lossy" convolution options, that you cannot tell apart from the "exact" convolution. Expect 25-50 % less CPU usage. These are not future ideas, but features that passed their Proof-of-concept phase.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 13, 2022)

Waywyn said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> here is a little video:



Love you bro <3


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## Noeticus (Nov 13, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> In a free, not so long away update there will be an auto align option. Not by delaying the dry input, but by skipping the corresponding part in the three mic sets (with fades etc, of course). I will use detailed distance information that I have, not measured in situ, but reconstructed from delay information / speed of sound, etc etc
> Maybe half december? I have used it myself, and find it pretty well working.
> I happened to check the woodwinds today: 14 msec, and violins 1 7 msec. Closest L or R distance to the Decca center is used.
> And on the Decca: maybe in a later version I will offer 3 mono channels Decca L, C and R. As an option. Maybe too confusing for some.


No, not at all confusing. Please add in the separate mono mic channels.


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## artinro (Nov 13, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> In a free, not so long away update there will be an auto align option. Not by delaying the dry input, but by skipping the corresponding part in the three mic sets (with fades etc, of course). I will use detailed distance information that I have, not measured in situ, but reconstructed from delay information / speed of sound, etc etc
> Maybe half december? I have used it myself, and find it pretty well working.
> I happened to check the woodwinds today: 14 msec, and violins 1 7 msec. Closest L or R distance to the Decca center is used.
> And on the Decca: maybe in a later version I will offer 3 mono channels Decca L, C and R. As an option. Maybe too confusing for some.


@Peter Emanuel Roos , congratulations on what appears to be quite a superb accomplishment! The auto align feature sounds very interesting. Looking forward to hearing some comparative examples (with the feature on and off). Do I remember reading that there was a slight issue with apple silicon at the moment? Perhaps I'm mistaken and this has already been addressed. Look forward to picking this up soon. Very impressive work.


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## Noeticus (Nov 13, 2022)

Ahhhhhh... TELDEX.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 13, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> that'd be great


Here's a comparison of Mozarteum and Berlin Studio using one of the @aaronventure demos to minimize my ability to butcher a comparison to just mixing. 

For the Berlin Studio version, I have all AV instruments set to Studio IR with close mics solo'd and maxed in volume.

AV Steel Ballroom Mozarteum (Mix Mic 3 on all instruments):
View attachment AV Steel Ballroom (Mozarteum).mp3


AV Steel Ballroom Berlin Studios (-6 dB direct, 0 dB Decca, -9 dB AB, -12 dB Surround):
View attachment AV Steel Ballroom (Berlin Studio).mp3


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## sislaney (Nov 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> 下面是使用 @aaronventure 演示之一对莫扎特音乐和柏林工作室进行的比较，以尽量减少我将比较的能力与仅混音的比较。
> 
> 对于 Berlin Studio 版本，我将所有 AV 乐器设置为 Studio IR，并使用近距离麦克风独奏并最大化音量。
> 
> ...


Did you use any panning?


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## Trash Panda (Nov 13, 2022)

sislaney said:


> Did you use any panning?


No. I left all instruments in their pre-panned positions in the studio Close Mic IR.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 13, 2022)

Here's Decca vs Decca.

Berlin Studio:
View attachment AV Steel Ballroom (Berlin Studios Decca Only).mp3


Mozarteum:
View attachment AV Steel Ballroom (Mozarteum Decca Only).mp3


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## Trash Panda (Nov 13, 2022)

And from a PC usage perspective, on my Surface Book 2 laptop (i7-8650U with 16 GB RAM), I was able to run 29 instances of AV Infinite Winds/Brass through 5 instances of Berlin Studio (Woodwinds, Trumpets, Horns, Trombones and Tuba) without overloading the CPU or RAM.


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## Kalli (Nov 14, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> In a free, not so long away update there will be an auto align option. Not by delaying the dry input, but by skipping the corresponding part in the three mic sets (with fades etc, of course). I will use detailed distance information that I have, not measured in situ, but reconstructed from delay information / speed of sound, etc etc
> Maybe half december? I have used it myself, and find it pretty well working.
> I happened to check the woodwinds today: 14 msec, and violins 1 7 msec. Closest L or R distance to the Decca center is used.
> And on the Decca: maybe in a later version I will offer 3 mono channels Decca L, C and R. As an option. Maybe too confusing for some.


Thank you, Peter! An auto align option does sound like a great idea. Looking forward to that update.

And thanks for checking the delay times! Experimenting had led me to ~8 ms for violin 1, so I'm glad to hear that I was in the ballpark. 

I don't think the three Decca channels would necessarily be too confusing. But it would probably be a good idea to have their settings (gain etc.) linked by default, with an option to unlink for more advanced tweaking. I suspect that for most use cases, it will be enough to use it in linked mode. Also, the GUI may become a little cluttered with three separate Decca channels, so perhaps it would be a good idea to show the Decca tree in a collapsed state as default, with the option to expand it into three channels for advanced tweaking. I've no idea how easy/difficult that would be to implement, so it's just a thought. I like the relatively clean GUI in the current version, though.


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## sislaney (Nov 14, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> 没有。我将所有乐器都放在工作室 Close Mic IR 中的预声相位置。


Can you test with solo IR?


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## Saxer (Nov 14, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> This is a known issue now, and all focus is on fixing this. In the mean time, users have reported that the plugin works well if you activate it yourself in the PluginManager.


Even with manual activation in Logic's PluginManager the plugin doesn't show up in the plugin list here.
I'm on a M1 MacStudioUltra, Monterey 12.6.1
I tried Logic 10.6.3 and Logic 10.7.5


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## Heinigoldstein (Nov 14, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Higher up, a few days ago I replied with a long text to Hendrik Buus Jensen about this time alignment feature, that will be included in an end-of-year update.
> 
> The efficiency of Berlin Studio, and other Samplicity plugins will only improve, because the current version has its multi-threading switched off. This is related to reported issues with the Juce library (that I use) and threading on Silicon chips. Berlin works fine (3 true stereo convolutions in paralel) in the host's callback, but that was not the meant to be the final approach.
> 
> ...


Berlin Studio seems to run flawless on my 2010 MacPro slave with High Sierra (as AU within VE-Pro). Only inside Logic on my iMac with BigSur the CPU overloads immediately when launching the 1st instance. I impatiently expect the update


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## Chris Hurst (Nov 14, 2022)

This does sound excellent to me. One request for a future update would be scaleable UI, or perhaps a mixer that can collapse as the UI is pretty large on my MacBook screen, so a smaller UI would help with the screen real estate.

It does sound great though and makes blending quick and easy.


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 14, 2022)

Wow, Peter, this is really amazing - you've come a long way since your first dealings with IR's! Congratulations - it must have been a monumental task to create this plugin!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 14, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> I just realized this is a commercial thread. Sorry @Peter Emanuel Roos, hope this is okay.


Feel free to delete from here and post it here if you'd like Berlin Studio - The Ultimate Reverb Test


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## Loerpert (Nov 14, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Feel free to delete from here and post it here if you'd like Berlin Studio - The Ultimate Reverb Test


Done!


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## Dylanguitar (Nov 15, 2022)

Can somebody confirm when the € 159.00 price will end and it goes up to full price?
Also, somebody said you can reduce the tail size (as you can in Altiverb) but that seems to contradict an earlier statement from the developer (unless I misunderstood it). Can someone who actually owns the plugin confirm this?
Thanks!!


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## Noeticus (Nov 15, 2022)

Dylanguitar said:


> Can somebody confirm when the € 159.00 price will end and it goes up to full price?
> Also, somebody said you can reduce the tail size (as you can in Altiverb) but that seems to contradict an earlier statement from the developer (unless I misunderstood it). Can someone who actually owns the plugin confirm this?
> Thanks!!


There is a TAIL knob within the GUI and yes, I can confirm that it works very effectively.

Also, today is a good day to stop sniffing glue. (In response to your avatar)


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

Hello all!

Really, thanks SO MUCH for your kind words and support!

I am sorry if I cannot match your nicknames here with orders... maybe we have emailed/chatted and I cannot link that with discussions here...

The first reviews, comments, even Youtube clips, I had not expected that the first reactions would be so cool.

I just want to share that the few nasty Logic/Silicon issues have been fixed. The Silicon issue was a serious bug. The validation issue was really stupid: the plugin refused to work with sample rates below 44.1 kHz - which was intentional. But got black-listed because of that.

The emails with new downloads will go out tomorrow, and hopefully my email-list provider will cooperate. No more manual emailing. Now some time to read the most recent pages here 

Thanks again!

Peter


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## Hunter123 (Nov 16, 2022)

How is this on CPU and latency? Can I download a demo somewhere on the website?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

flea said:


> I agree 100%. I bought the plug in today and now read here that it is only usable on online computers, which is a no go for me. My computers are not online more often than every few months. Fortunately I haven't downloaded or registered it yet, so hopefully they can cancel the purchase. Will get in touch about this.
> Would have preferred Ilok copy protection. Very very sad.


A next update, mid-late December will have iLok.

The service that is now in place has a semi-offline option, but I have been instructed to test it well. And I want to have the AU/Logic/Silicon fix out Asap, so can't do this in a hurry.

I am willing to look into the semi-offline activation and can maybe provide it on a per-client basis, on request (no charges, PM or email me), but I cannot include it now in the update for all customers.

This discovery was also for me a bummer, I hadn't read about it in the documentation I used. Sorry!


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos After using this plugin a few days, I can't express how amazing it is. It's a true game changer for me. Thanks so much! I was thinking. A handy feature in a later update could be to add a pan slider to the dry signal so you match the panning with the other mics. Cheers!


Seen the two knobs on the left side?

They position the signal that goes into the other channels. I agree this approach may be confusing... Will be replaced later by a more fancy dual panner - one of the features that did not (yet) make it.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

JeffvR said:


> Can you route (for example) the surround mics to a different output? So you can really use it on a surround system?


If you use two instances, you can set it up.

Quantum Leap also uses that approach and claim Surround support  
Hehe, no I will not say Berlin Studio supports multi-channel this way.

But (!): if you set the tail level of any reverb channel to zero, after 2 seconds there will be no more CPU use for that channel. So if you do this with the surround mics channel, you can it in a second instance (without Decca and AB) with hardly any additional CPU load.

I am aware that "Surround mics" is confusing in this context. Maybe I should call them Very Wide And High...

Of course a surround version is in the planning, with proper panner controls and routing, but this will not be available before spring.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I see Berlin Studio is available to Pre-Order at € 159.00 , so it's not available yet ?
> 
> ...


Price will go slightly up from 159 to 169 on Friday 18, an intro price until the end of the year.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> This thing is amazing. I mostly use OT libraries, and this thing allows me to quickly and easily put the rest of my libraries in Teldex with the main orchestra. It works especially well if the library has a spot mic. The only quarrel that I have had is with Tina Guo, and that's probably more about me knowing what I am doing than anything. It is definitely more difficult with an ambient library.





wunderflo said:


> I can recommend to also experiment with this plugin in ways it wasn't intended for by not taking the descriptions too literally. For example, I just sent two identical copies of a small dry string section to two instances of Berlin Studio on two separate tracks. I used one instance to position the strings in the woodwinds section and soloed the Decca tree. In the other instance I positioned the strings at the sides and soloed the surround mics. Sounded good!  Of course, you can create many problems this way, but might be worth it to try (if you're not going for a realistic representation of the orchestra).


Cool!

Next version will also feature a left-right swap of the hall. I have NO idea yet if that can in some cases result in mud, but for placing for instance solo instruments it add some additional "locations", say Violins 1 on the right (maybe for a harp, whatever).


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> On My Last Tutorial On Elements Modern Scoring Synth, I've used Berlin Studio also on Hybrid Sound...
> 
> What Can I Say?
> 
> I LOVE IT ! Its terrific also on the Hybrid Stuff


Thanks so much Stefano!


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

Breaker said:


> Thanks. I guess that or the Front Stage Wide would make most sense.


You can use any position, tweak the width of the input with the Left/Right knobs, lower the tails levels, EQ, lower the size levels, etc etc,


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## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 16, 2022)

I was super hesitant to purchase yet another reverb plugin, but I'm happy to report this thing is amazing and it is so much more than just another reverb. I don't think I've ever had so much fun mixing libraries together because you simply load into it a patch from a library, mix the mics to taste, and it sounds incredible right away!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Wow, Peter, this is really amazing - you've come a long way since your first dealings with IR's! Congratulations - it must have been a monumental task to create this plugin!


Thanks so much Simon, it is already sooo long ago when we had the #midi-mockup group, with Thomas B. and KingIdiot (Ashif, RIP)...

There is quite some work involved in making this kind of software.

Cheers man!


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 16, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Cool!
> 
> Next version will also feature a left-right swap of the hall. I have NO idea yet if that can in some cases result in mud, but for placing for instance solo instruments it add some additional "locations", say Violins 1 on the right (maybe for a harp, whatever).


In the grand scheme of things, I am not sure if it matters. But ideally there would be a spot behind the conductor for violin, piano, cello, or what ever soloist is desired.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> In the grand scheme of things, I am not sure if it matters. But ideally there would be a spot behind the conductor for violin, piano, cello, or what ever soloist is desired.


I agree, and it would be great if I could go back to Berlin and do new / additional recordings for many more positions in the hall.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Here's a comparison of Mozarteum and Berlin Studio using one of the @aaronventure demos to minimize my ability to butcher a comparison to just mixing.
> 
> For the Berlin Studio version, I have all AV instruments set to Studio IR with close mics solo'd and maxed in volume.
> 
> ...


Wow!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Feel free to delete from here and post it here if you'd like Berlin Studio - The Ultimate Reverb Test


No, I don't mind at all! Keep posting / replying / asking


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## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 16, 2022)

Will there be an ilok cloud option?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 16, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Will there be an ilok cloud option?


Yes, iLok 2/3 dongle and cloud, not machine identification


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## wunderflo (Nov 16, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Of course a surround version is in the planning, with proper panner controls and routing, but this will not be available before spring.


Looking forward to that! Hopefully there will be a nice upgrade path.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 16, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos how should we be preparing the input signal going into the reverb?

For example, let’s say we have three trumpets intended to be trumpets a3 through Berlin Studio. 

Should trumpet 1 be mostly left, trumpet 2 centered and trumpet 3 mostly right before it gets fed into the trumpets section of Berlin Studio?


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Nov 16, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Yes, iLok 2/3 dongle and cloud, not machine identification


I hope we get at least 2 license per 1 purchase? i like to have a 2 keys.


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## brett (Nov 16, 2022)

Hi @Peter Emanuel Roos 

Dumb question. I don’t notice a wet/dry knob in the screen shots? Or have I simply missed this? I trust this plugin is not only for use as an insert? 

Thanks


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## portego (Nov 17, 2022)

Interesting concept. 

Basically, the principle of IK's Fame Studio Reverb (with the different positions) but turned up to 11 for a whole orchestra... Love it . Especially since you apparently can remove the tail reverb -> Instant positioning and depth?

But what i don't really get is, how you would add an ensemble patch into this concept? Sections (divisi) seems straight forward -> Each Section = 1 Position. But let's say, you did that, but you want to layer the strings with a library that only has an ensemble patch. What would be the approach for that? Put it on the Woodwinds section and adjust the delay?


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## rudi (Nov 17, 2022)

brett said:


> Hi @Peter Emanuel Roos
> 
> Dumb question. I don’t notice a wet/dry knob in the screen shots? Or have I simply missed this? I trust this plugin is not only for use as an insert?
> 
> Thanks


You just turn the "Dry Signal" down to 0 or mute it, and leave any of the wet signals on.


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## rudi (Nov 17, 2022)

portego said:


> But what i don't really get is, how you would add an ensemble patch into this concept? Sections (divisi) seems straight forward -> Each Section = 1 Position. But let's say, you did that, but you want to layer the strings with a library that only has an ensemble patch. What would be the approach for that? Put it on the Woodwinds section and adjust the delay?


Yes, you can use the Woodwind location (or even the percussion positions) or alternatively the front or mid surround positions and choose the one you like best. Then adjust the dry signal delay to bring the ensemble forward to taste as needed.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 17, 2022)

Can I use Berlin Studio as a tail reverb on the master bus without selecting any position? 

i.e. as a “normal” tail reverb on master bus


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## rudi (Nov 17, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Can I use Berlin Studio as a tail reverb on the master bus without selecting any position?
> 
> i.e. as a “normal” tail reverb on master bus


As far as I know you have to select a position. Depending on the position you select the nature of the reverb tail will change. I've tried the front surround, mid-surround, woodwinds, percussions and choir position and each one has its own character, including width, since they are real locations. Some of the results are quite pleasant!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 17, 2022)

rudi said:


> As far as I know you have to select a position. Depending on the position you select the nature of the reverb tail will change. I've tried the front surround, mid-surround, woodwinds, percussions and choir position and each one has its own character, including width, since they are real locations. Some of the results are quite pleasant!


I didn’t consider that the tail would be different pr. position, good point!

I’ll experiment with it


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## tabulius (Nov 17, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos how should we be preparing the input signal going into the reverb?
> 
> For example, let’s say we have three trumpets intended to be trumpets a3 through Berlin Studio.
> 
> Should trumpet 1 be mostly left, trumpet 2 centered and trumpet 3 mostly right before it gets fed into the trumpets section of Berlin Studio?


I would like to know this as well!


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## rudi (Nov 17, 2022)

You can pan the individual trumpets (or other instruments) as required. Since the impulses are true stereo, they will reflect the instruments pan positions.

A few things to bear in mind however:

A dry source signal panned in the middle is ideal as you can pan it as required either in the VSTi itself, or by adjusting BST's (Berlin Studio) input channel L and R levels as a pan control.

As well as changing the source position you can also control the width of the signal, e.g if you pan both L and R fully to the right you'll effectively end-up with single point fully panned to the right. By increasing the level between L + R, you can increase the perceived width of the signal, but as a rule solo instruments tend to be single point sources.

If the dry source signal is already pre-panned that works too, and you can still re-position it using the method above.

If the dry source signal is stereo that works the same as above, but avoid decreasing the width to a single point.

If using an ensemble source e.g Trumpet A3, you can also adjust the pan and width as above but be aware that there is likely some spatial information already in the signal and you can't be as extreme as with a mono signal. Of course you can use more extreme pan positions and width if you don't want to stick to a more realistic layout.

You can also play with the ER and Tail balance to create a more precise or more diffuse sense of position.

In practice I have found only a subtle audible difference between 3 individual trumpets panned L, C and R across the trumpet location, and all three being panned to the same position, as the width of the trumpet location is quite narrow, corresponding to a distance of only few feet between the individual instruments.

Your mileage may vary!


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## JeffvR (Nov 17, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> If you use two instances, you can set it up.
> 
> Quantum Leap also uses that approach and claim Surround support
> Hehe, no I will not say Berlin Studio supports multi-channel this way.
> ...


Thanks! Bought it yesterday. The one instance per track and mute the others is what I've figured out . Mixing my next film in 5.1 so I'll test this out. I've recorded flutes, guitars, clarinets and percussion this week so I'll def post some examples when I'm finished with it. Also in comparison to MIR.


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## axb312 (Nov 17, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Yes, iLok 2/3 dongle and cloud, not machine identification


Hope machine based activation can be included sometime in the future. No go for me personally till then.


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## constaneum (Nov 18, 2022)

One question. I'm aware that it works best with close dry recorded instrument. However, does it work best with centrally recorded or fine with recorded in SITU?


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## portego (Nov 18, 2022)

Can confirm that it works on a AMD CPU and in FL-Studio.

One instance of "Berlin Studio" uses on a AMD 5950x around 1% of the FL-Studio CPU-Meter. Would say, a little less than 1%, because the 1% Rule applies to about 80-90% or so. It is obvious that multithreading is not implemented yet, but "Peter Emanuel Roos" confirmed this in the "Berlin Studio - The Ultimate Reverb Test" thread and is working on it. So yeah, even if it is not optimised for AMD i don't see any problems but looking forward to the next update. Multithreading for the win 👍

Btw. Played around only a little bit. So far I can say, it sounds amazing with VHorns and:

- Install Process was not a problem on Windows 10
- Also no virus alarm (which was mentioned on the homepage, it could happen)
- But install process is probably not finished, couldn't choose the drive (-> went to windows drive)
- A link parameter for the delays would be awesome (link all the knobs together)
- The delay knob didn't pushed it far enough in my first little test. My idea was, to push a string ensemble patch (front stage) to/behind the individual strings (with delay), but it didn't worked as planned -> ensemble on middle stage was fine. But this could also be problem of the string library (only tested it with 8Dio Majestica).
- Some kind of auto panning would be nice. In my test, the dry signal was just where it was (Example: Horn reverb left, but dry signal of the Horn in the middle). There are knobs in the plugin to pan it, directly in the plugin. But in my head I was thinking: "Why doesn't the plugin just pre-pan for an individual positon? Or why aren't there 2 settings for each stage (one pre-panned, one free). I'm a lazy bastard and it would just make sense in my head -> Every instrument center and remove the reverb -> Choose place and the option of pre-panning and voilà 😉. I mean, than you would have the exact angle of the panning for each position... But i get it, there would have to be 2 options, because some libraries are allready panned...

Yeah, this is my first impression of this neat reverb. Like it so far.


----------



## portego (Nov 18, 2022)

*Correction: There is a bug with FL Studio*

The stage location will not be saved with FL Studio. The faders are fine, but the stage location will be the default "violin 1" when you save and open a project with FL Studio.

*@developer team:* is this fixable? Asking shyly as it kind of messes up my whole plan...


----------



## aileero (Nov 18, 2022)

portego said:


> *Correction: There is a bug with FL Studio*
> 
> The stage location will not be saved with FL Studio. The faders are fine, but the stage location will be the default "violin 1" when you save and open a project with FL Studio.
> 
> *@developer team:* is this fixable? Asking shyly as it kind of messes up my whole plan...


Agreed, just ran into this issue as well 
A similar thing happens when you use the click and drag on the "save preset as..." on the mixer to drag the plugin with the same settings onto a different mixer track. 
Strangely, saving the preset (in fl studio) and then loading it still works, so it probably has to do something with how the plugin is initialized.


----------



## constaneum (Nov 18, 2022)

For FL Studio users who have unsaved stage location issue, you may opt for the "Make bridged" option which works while waiting for Peter to resolve this.


----------



## Daniel James (Nov 18, 2022)

Picked this up Yesterday. Its incredible! instantly 'worldizes' anything you put in it. I love taking synths or sound designs and then seeing where in the room sounds best, then being able to mix the mic positions as if it was actually recorded in the room is flawless. Genuinely feels like I am mixing my live orchestra sessions at times.

Most definitely a new goto for so many things in my workflow now! Superbe work!

Hope we see more products in this style! 

-DJ


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## constaneum (Nov 18, 2022)

btw, got the license activation key but somehow this isn't tied to ilok ? I have ilok 3 dongle but can't seem to find a way to have the license activated on dongle instead. I don't wanna stay online for my DAW though.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 18, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> Picked this up Yesterday. Its incredible! instantly 'worldizes' anything you put in it. I love taking synths or sound designs and then seeing where in the room sounds best, then being able to mix the mic positions as if it was actually recorded in the room is flawless. Genuinely feels like I am mixing my live orchestra sessions at times.
> 
> Most definitely a new goto for so many things in my workflow now! Superbe work!
> 
> ...


Hey Dan, thanks so much! This means a lot to me!


----------



## portego (Nov 18, 2022)

constaneum said:


> For FL Studio users who have unsaved stage location issue, you may opt for the "Make bridged" option which works while waiting for Peter to resolve this.


Son of a Gun 😲. It really freaking works 🥳. Are you some kind of FL Studio wizard? Thank you very much 



constaneum said:


> btw, got the license activation key but somehow this isn't tied to ilok ?


I've read it somewhere that iLok will be the next step (next update in december?) and this method now is just a temporary solution -> Will be tied to iLok in the future.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 18, 2022)

The update with a few fixes has finally been sent out!

And there is now also Vst2, on Mac and Windows


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 18, 2022)

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I hope we get at least 2 license per 1 purchase? i like to have a 2 keys.


Currently two activations. Will think about it again with the iLok version.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 18, 2022)

brett said:


> Hi @Peter Emanuel Roos
> 
> Dumb question. I don’t notice a wet/dry knob in the screen shots? Or have I simply missed this? I trust this plugin is not only for use as an insert?
> 
> Thanks


That's the fun, this is a new concept. There is a simple Direct channel. Just pull that fader down or set it to Mute and you have a Wet only mix.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 18, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Can I use Berlin Studio as a tail reverb on the master bus without selecting any position?
> 
> i.e. as a “normal” tail reverb on master bus


No, that would give you a dry output 🙃


----------



## Jett Hitt (Nov 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> The update with a few fixes has finally been sent out!


Got it! I’ll install and give it a whirl later tonight. Thanks Peter!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 18, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Hope machine based activation can be included sometime in the future. No go for me personally till then.


I expect not to support that - maybe I may change my mind when I soon start integrating that stuff.


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## portego (Nov 18, 2022)

Funny enough with the (new) "VST2" Version the stages are saved in FL Studio...


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 18, 2022)

portego said:


> Can confirm that it works on a AMD CPU and in FL-Studio.
> 
> One instance of "Berlin Studio" uses on a AMD 5950x around 1% of the FL-Studio CPU-Meter. Would say, a little less than 1%, because the 1% Rule applies to about 80-90% or so. It is obvious that multithreading is not implemented yet, but "Peter Emanuel Roos" confirmed this in the "Berlin Studio - The Ultimate Reverb Test" thread and is working on it. So yeah, even if it is not optimised for AMD i don't see any problems but looking forward to the next update. Multithreading for the win 👍
> 
> ...


Well, not optimized... I use quite a lot of vectorized optimizations for the heavy calculations - this part uses the best the local processor has to offer. 
It is about how the software "project" itself is compiled. If you do that with an flag for say AVX512 it will simply not start on machines without those features. Hence I decided to use the old AVX option (machines to 10 years old).
AVX, AVX2, and up, it all makes some difference, but the main heavy crunching will really make use of the SIMD operations that your processor supports.
The delay options can already push instruments "out of the room" - it is not meant like a pre-delay in a regular reverb.

There will be documentation and blog pages in the coming weeks. Hopefully some rest from coding...


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 18, 2022)

portego said:


> *Correction: There is a bug with FL Studio*
> 
> The stage location will not be saved with FL Studio. The faders are fine, but the stage location will be the default "violin 1" when you save and open a project with FL Studio.
> 
> *@developer team:* is this fixable? Asking shyly as it kind of messes up my whole plan...


A standard state-exchange with the host is used, I cannot imagine that a host can have problems with it. Will look into it.

I will also be easy with refunds if it really disappoints you in some way.


----------



## portego (Nov 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I will also be easy with refunds if it really disappoints you in some way.


Very generous, but the VST2 Version already fixed the issue... Don't see any more CPU usage with the VST2, so yeah, i'm happy 😁


----------



## Daniel James (Nov 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hey Dan, thanks so much! This means a lot to me!


No worries man, genuinely blown away.

Only thing I can think that I would love is a LP/HP filter on the front panel for each mic. And a 'apply eq to all' option so I can quickly apply the same EQ shapes to the different mics quickly if I just need to kill a resonant frequency, to save me doing the action 3 times.

Pulling the bass out of some mics can really clean things up, would just be cool to have an easy way to tidy. But in all seriousness, this is a fantastic plugin. This is how convolutions should always be packaged going forward. Easy UI - Powerful results!

-DJ


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## joeunsoo (Nov 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> The update with a few fixes has finally been sent out!
> 
> And there is now also Vst2, on Mac and Windows


Yeah! 

I installed the update and got a fantastic reverb


----------



## constaneum (Nov 18, 2022)

Can't wait to try out the update. The 1st version I have problem with the EQ on FL studio. Audio signal became distorted and ended up with no sound. Anyone had this issue ?


----------



## Jett Hitt (Nov 18, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos the plugin seems to be working on my M1 Mac Studio in native mode (no noise). However, it still fails to validate.

Update: The validation for the plugin crashes. It runs, but CPU usage is high. In Rosetta mode, it says Not Authorized, and inserting it crashes Logic.


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 18, 2022)

constaneum said:


> Can't wait to try out the update. The 1st version I have problem with the EQ on FL studio. Audio signal became distorted and ended up with no sound. Anyone had this issue ?


I have the same thing in Cubase on 256 buffer size. 

However, switching to the free version of Reaper, everything is going smooth. 

I don’t have a clue what is causing this with different Daw’s.


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## constaneum (Nov 18, 2022)

AllenConstantine said:


> I have the same thing in Cubase on 256 buffer size.
> 
> However, switching to the free version of Reaper, everything is going smooth.
> 
> I don’t have a clue what is causing this with different Daw’s.


The latest update also have this...probably I need to tune the buffer size to test out.


----------



## constaneum (Nov 18, 2022)

portego said:


> Son of a Gun 😲. It really freaking works 🥳. Are you some kind of FL Studio wizard? Thank you very much
> 
> 
> I've read it somewhere that iLok will be the next step (next update in december?) and this method now is just a temporary solution -> Will be tied to iLok in the future.


Not a wizard...I just had experience with some plugins with the same issue (ie: Fresh Air). Haha


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 18, 2022)

constaneum said:


> The latest update also have this...probably I need to tune the buffer size to test out.


Yeah, happens to me too with the new update. On 512 buffer size, or higher, everything works smooth. What I don't get is how does it happen in different Daws? Also, I have a friend that said this is happening in Logic on a Mac. 

Weird...


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## Olympum (Nov 18, 2022)

I am not having much luck with the latest update. The VST3 plugin crashes S1v6 on Mac (M1 Pro), and the VST3 and VST2 fail validation in Cubase 12.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> No worries man, genuinely blown away.
> 
> Only thing I can think that I would love is a LP/HP filter on the front panel for each mic. And a 'apply eq to all' option so I can quickly apply the same EQ shapes to the different mics quickly if I just need to kill a resonant frequency, to save me doing the action 3 times.
> 
> ...


Sweet!

EQ filters in the main window: that feature was killed two weeks before the release and replaced with the popup :-D Because of the visual clutter it gave, and I thought it was not main functionality.

But I totally get your point, fast, most important features up front and tweaking a step away.

EQ apply to all option: excellent tip!


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 19, 2022)

constaneum said:


> The latest update also have this...probably I need to tune the buffer size to test out.


@constaneum can you try using the Generic Low Latency Asio Driver and not your daily audio interface driver and see if there is any improvement? Do you still get the EQ loud feedback problem?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

portego said:


> Very generous, but the VST2 Version already fixed the issue... Don't see any more CPU usage with the VST2, so yeah, i'm happy 😁


Top!

The plugin "versions" are of course functionally the same and cannot give differences in CPU usages.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos the plugin seems to be working on my M1 Mac Studio in native mode (no noise). However, it still fails to validate.
> 
> Update: The validation for the plugin crashes. It runs, but CPU usage is high. In Rosetta mode, it says Not Authorized, and inserting it crashes Logic.


Logic is well known for caching information about plugins even when they are physically gone or replaced.

I will write a FAQ with steps on how to handle this. Send me an email if you want to get this info as soon as it is available.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

AllenConstantine said:


> I have the same thing in Cubase on 256 buffer size.
> 
> However, switching to the free version of Reaper, everything is going smooth.
> 
> I don’t have a clue what is causing this with different Daw’s.


Neither do I, Allen!

You know that I am now quite a DAW collector


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

AllenConstantine said:


> @constaneum can you try using the Generic Low Latency Asio Driver and not your daily audio interface driver and see if there is any improvement? Do you still get the EQ loud feedback problem?


I spent a few days on this, also with great help from Allen, but decided that the Logic issues had a higher priority to be delivered (they were understood, confirmed and removed).

This one was reported by a few users and I have not yet been able to reproduce it. But it will be fixed!
Send me an email if you are affected by this. I will not do a full round sending out of updates for this one (unless it turns out to affect more users).


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## StefanoM (Nov 19, 2022)

Hi, Peter.

Talking to Allen, I did some TEST.

I have the same problem with Nuendo at 256 buffer size ( at 512 it works well )

I tried with the Apollo X6 driver and the RME HDSP RAY DAT driver.

Same problem.

Same test run with Studio One 6, no problem.

At 256 buffer size everything works fine.

So it seems a Steinberg problem.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Olympum said:


> I am not having much luck with the latest update. The VST3 plugin crashes S1v6 on Mac (M1 Pro), and the VST3 and VST2 fail validation in Cubase 12.





StefanoM said:


> Hi, Peter.
> 
> Talking to Allen, I did some TEST.
> 
> ...


It is a weird issue to investigate... I spent a few days on this, delaying the sending out of the Silicon / Logic fixes. This will be fixed of course - the Steinberg remark is an interesting clue


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Olympum said:


> I am not having much luck with the latest update. The VST3 plugin crashes S1v6 on Mac (M1 Pro), and the VST3 and VST2 fail validation in Cubase 12.


This is puzzling. First mention of the Cubase validator blocking it.

I use the same validator as Cubase in my tests and use Cubase as well and will do more tests on my M1 Mac.

The plugin files are signed and contain the name Samplicity in different layers, so "Unknown" is really weird.

And what about that confusing 32 bit remark? All Samplicity software is 65 bit of course.

Wait... 65?


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## Heinigoldstein (Nov 19, 2022)

Hi Peter,.

unfortunately I´m afraid to say, that the update is even worse than the 1st version on my side (BigSur, late 2015 iMac). Still fails the Logic validation, still extremely high CPU load after manual activation, but now the validation fails for VE-Pro on my old Mac Pro slave too. Version 1.0.0 worked, although you stated it´s not tested for OS 10.3.6.
VE-Pro validation on the BigSur Mac passed, but the CPU load is high too with only 1 Instance. And it starts crackling when you activate one of the EQs.


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## Chris Hurst (Nov 19, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> Hi Peter,.
> 
> unfortunately I´m afraid to say, that the update is even worse than the 1st version on my side (BigSur, late 2015 iMac). Still fails the Logic validation, still extremely high CPU load after manual activation, but now the validation fails for VE-Pro on my old Mac Pro slave too. Version 1.0.0 worked, although you stated it´s not tested for OS 10.3.6.
> VE-Pro validation on the BigSur Mac passed, but the CPU load is high too with only 1 Instance. And it starts crackling when you activate one of the EQs.


I’m having the same issue on max osx Big Sur with the latest update unfortunately.


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## Olympum (Nov 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> This is puzzling. First mention of the Cubase validator blocking it.
> 
> I use the same validator as Cubase in my tests and use Cubase as well and will do more tests on my M1 Mac.
> 
> ...


In case this is helpful, coming back with an update re. the error on Cubase, at least for me:

* Cubase 12.0.50 Rosetta 2 - VST3 and VST2 plugins are blocked
* Cubase 12.0.50 Native AS - VST3 plugin validation passes and works well (at least at 256 bytes buffer)

In Studio One:

* 6.0.1 - Rosetta2 VST3 version crashes S1
* 6.0.1 - Rosetta2 AU version works fine (256 bytes)
* 6.0.1 - Native AU version works fine (256 bytes)

(I need Rosetta2 till VSL goes native)


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> Hi Peter,.
> 
> unfortunately I´m afraid to say, that the update is even worse than the 1st version on my side (BigSur, late 2015 iMac). Still fails the Logic validation, still extremely high CPU load after manual activation, but now the validation fails for VE-Pro on my old Mac Pro slave too. Version 1.0.0 worked, although you stated it´s not tested for OS 10.3.6.
> VE-Pro validation on the BigSur Mac passed, but the CPU load is high too with only 1 Instance. And it starts crackling when you activate one of the EQs.


Are you sure you typed 10.3.6?

From 2004?









Mac OS X 10.3.6


Mac OS X 10.3.6 is an update for Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) that was released by Apple Computer on November 5, 2004. As with Mac OS X 10.3.5, file sharing for Mac (AFP), UNIX (NFS) and PC (SMB/CIFS) networks were improved, additional FireWire audio and USB device compatibility was added, and...




apple.fandom.com





If so, this must be caused by the code not being supporting that OS and processor (?)
Settings were used for MacOS 10.14 and Intel processors that support the AVX instructions (available for some 10 years).

If you have a more recent MacOS version, I can make a special build for your configuration, to test if this might resolve the CPU load issue. I will take this offline with you via email (expect it later this weekend from my deltaworks.nl domain). I am curious and hope to learn from this.

The AVX flag was set in this 1.0.2 update - not in the first 1.0.1 release. Maybe a hint for me.

Be aware that validation in Logic is a process that can easily send false negatives, by caching etc. The next installer will include a cleaner tool for first removing previous plugin files. Does Logic show that you now have the 1.0.2 version? This is now also (barely) visible in the lower left corner of the plugin window.

The processing inside this plugin is rather light compared to other convolution-based plugins. It should not slow down regular computers.

Regards,
Peter


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Chris Hurst said:


> I’m having the same issue on max osx Big Sur with the latest update unfortunately.


Validation or CPU load?


----------



## Chris Hurst (Nov 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Validation or CPU load?


Both unfortunately!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Olympum said:


> In case this is helpful, coming back with an update re. the error on Cubase, at least for me:
> 
> * Cubase 12.0.50 Rosetta 2 - VST3 and VST2 plugins are blocked
> * Cubase 12.0.50 Native AS - VST3 plugin validation passes and works well (at least at 256 bytes buffer)
> ...


Thanks so much for our tests!

This is intriguing and puzzling... 

Like many plugin developers, I make use of the JUCE framework, which adds the AU, VST, VST3 wrappers around a single code base, and JUCE is very well tested... I do not have a single line in my own code for a specific format.

The MacOS binaries contain an Intel layer and a Silicon layer, they should not be run via Rosetta at all - can you tell me how you are using that? I am not an Apple expert, maybe I miss something.

Is one of the hosts enforcing Intel code to be run via Rosetta on M1 and not using Silicon itself? If so, would separate Intel and Silicon versions of the plugin help, or am I still too confused at this moment?

(Regarding hosts and Silicon, I will not make jokes about Pro Tools here - and my work to support AAX is about to start soon )

Cheers,

Peter


----------



## Chris Hurst (Nov 19, 2022)

It is a really impressive sounding plugin, so if you need any help with the logic/Big Sur issue, then just let me know - happy to test.


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Nov 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Are you sure you typed 10.3.6?
> 
> From 2004?
> 
> ...


10.13.6 of course, sorry. The machine is old (mid 2010) but not that old  I saw the hint that it´s not tested, but it worked with 1.0.1 and passed validation.
Yes, the plug in shows 1.0.2 in Logic and I´ve seen other users reporting, that it´s pretty light on CPU. Maybe it´s related to BigSur ? Unfortunately I can´t update the OS on my slave, but if it solves the problem I would move to Monterey on my Logic host machine. 
Would you prefer, if I send a mail to your support address instead of posting this here ?


----------



## Flyo (Nov 19, 2022)

AAX will expand the usability of the Plug-in. Hope every effort to get in to the daw works great! 

I will wait till everything works on that platform


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Chris Hurst said:


> It is a really impressive sounding plugin, so if you need any help with the logic/Big Sur issue, then just let me know - happy to test.


Well, to reassure everyone in this "support" thread - as it has turned into - not a single issue has been found related to the complex convolution technology inside.

These are edge cases, nasty ones, related to I/O and parameter handling.

Thanks for you offer Chris


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> 10.13.6 of course, sorry. The machine is old (mid 2010) but not that old  I saw the hint that it´s not tested, but it worked with 1.0.1 and passed validation.
> Yes, the plug in shows 1.0.2 in Logic and I´ve seen other users reporting, that it´s pretty light on CPU. Maybe it´s related to BigSur ? Unfortunately I can´t update the OS on my slave, but if it solves the problem I would move to Monterey on my Logic host machine.
> Would you prefer, if I send a mail to your support address instead of posting this here ?


I will contact you later this weekend by email


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Nov 19, 2022)

Chris Hurst said:


> It is a really impressive sounding plugin, so if you need any help with the logic/Big Sur issue, then just let me know - happy to test.


Yep, I chime in. i need to make it run smooth, because it´s so great !


----------



## Olympum (Nov 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> The MacOS binaries contain an Intel layer and a Silicon layer, they should not be run via Rosetta at all - can you tell me how you are using that? I am not an Apple expert, maybe I miss something.
> 
> Is one of the hosts enforcing Intel code to be run via Rosetta on M1 and not using Silicon itself? If so, would separate Intel and Silicon versions of the plugin help, or am I still too confused at this moment?


AFAIK, for Apple Silicon native mode:

* Cubase 12 only runs VST3 that are Apple silicon binaries
* Studio One runs AU as native AS, if it exists, or via Apple’s AUHostingCompatibilityService (Rosetta2); VST3s only run if they are AS native (no R2)

And when running the executables on Rosetta2 compatibility mode:

* Cubase 12 runs both VST2 and VST3 Intel x64
* Studio One runs VST2/VST3/AU for Intel x64


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Olympum said:


> AFAIK:
> 
> * Cubase 12 Apple Silicon only runs VST2/VST3 that are Apple silicon binaries
> * Cubase 12 Rosetta2 runs VST2/VST3 Intel64 R2 wrapped (the difference here is that with a Universal binary, the Intel64 version gets picked up, not the AS one)
> ...


I am happy that the compiling, bundling and signing of all binary files for MacOS runs automatically on my build computers. This is completely impossible to do manually.

When the website is updated I will start making downloads with CPU specific versions

Thanks again for these details!


----------



## Saxer (Nov 19, 2022)

Runs here in Logic 1.7.5 now. It really sounds impressive! MacStudio Ultra Monterey 12.6.1

Hi CPU usage though, but i think it's one of the Apple teething troubles: Logic shows the active core up to 100% and the CPU level is pulsing, even without input. Happens on other plugins too, Vienna Synchron (ok, it's Rosetta), SWAM instruments, Unify and depending on the loaded sound also Kontakt. If you compare Logics CPU meter and the activity monitor it shows very different CPU usage. But if Logics avtive CPU hits the ceiling there's crackling.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Saxer said:


> Runs here in Logic 1.7.5 now. It really sounds impressive! MacStudio Ultra Monterey 12.6.1
> 
> Hi CPU usage though, but i think it's one of the Apple teething troubles: Logic shows the active core up to 100% and the CPU level is pulsing, even without input. Happens on other plugins too, Vienna Synchron (ok, it's Rosetta), SWAM instruments, Unify and depending on the loaded sound also Kontakt. If you compare Logics CPU meter and the activity monitor it shows very different CPU usage. But if Logics avtive CPU hits the ceiling there's crackling.


Hi Torsten,

If I can provide extra dedicated, single CPU versions, this should be completely solvable, don't you think?

To make their purpose very "clear", they will need to have either Intel or Silicon in their name, else everything will become even more confusing


----------



## Trevor Meier (Nov 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hi Torsten,
> 
> If I can provide extra dedicated, single CPU versions, this should be completely solvable, don't you think?
> 
> To make their purpose very "clear", they will need to have either Intel or Silicon in their name, else everything will become even more confusing


If I recall, Logic tends to have problems when plugins try to manage multi-core processing on their own. It works much better when the plugins allow Logic to do the core allocation. Thus plugins like u-he Diva have "multiprocessor" on/off toggles right on the front panel.


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Nov 19, 2022)

True, Saxer is right. Logic makes the CPU load look worse than it seems to be. But it´s still pretty heavy.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Trevor Meier said:


> If I recall, Logic tends to have problems when plugins try to manage multi-core processing on their own. It works much better when the plugins allow Logic to do the core allocation. Thus plugins like u-he Diva have "multiprocessor" on/off toggles right on the front panel.


Exactly for this reason I have switched off the multi-threading in my convolution engine. I did not want to take any risks with my first releases. So there is only processing in the "callback" from the host, nothing special.

Future updates of Samplicity plugins will run lighter / smoother when I do enable the multi-threading and/or make it optional.


----------



## Ivan Duch (Nov 19, 2022)

Been testing the reverb throughout the morning. Ended up replacing all my current spacialization solutions. It sounds incredible and it's very versatile. I love the interface as well. Super convenient.

In case it helps somehow: In Reaper it is running like a charm. On Ve Pro not so much. On my end it seems to be the interface that is quite cpu heavy and slows ve pro to a crawl but only while I keep the interface open. I don't have a dedicated video card so that might be related.

My specs are i7 8700, 64 gb ram and windows 10.

Again, amazing work. Definitely ground breaking.


----------



## Flyo (Nov 19, 2022)

I want to add my request for iLok machine autorización to, is a must need, when everything was ready ported to their license scheme


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Ivan Duch said:


> Been testing the reverb throughout the morning. Ended up replacing all my current spacialization solutions. It sounds incredible and it's very versatile. I love the interface as well. Super convenient.
> 
> In case it helps somehow: In Reaper it is running like a charm. On Ve Pro not so much. On my end it seems to be the interface that is quite cpu heavy and slows ve pro to a crawl but only while I keep the interface open. I don't have a dedicated video card so that might be related.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks so much!

I have unfortunately no experience with VE Pro at all, did not have VSL products in my DAW in the last many years (I did in the last GigaStudio years, the content was really great, but I don't want vendor locking like that - ok, everyone does that now  )

From a plugin's (or my  perspective it is just a host - I have no idea yet about its architecture and if there could be reasons to have less "time" or CPU available for the plugins that run in it. 

Does it run itself within some kind of wrapper (no time to check that, sorry)

The GUI indeed requires some processing power, if you close it, that usage is entirely gone and only the reverb processing remains. Weird that this makes a difference though! It is simple 2D graphics, a fair video card is already OK.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Flyo said:


> I want to add my request for iLok machine autorización to, is a must need, when everything was ready ported to their license scheme


Why will you not be able to use an iLok dongle or iLok cloud? Do you have a reason for machine-based?

I will receive the Pace / iLok development software next week and start integrating it. This will take at least two weeks of development, I have been told.


----------



## Flyo (Nov 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Why will you not be able to use an iLok dongle or iLok cloud? Do you have a reason for machine-based?
> 
> I will receive the Pace / iLok development software next week and start integrating it. This will take at least two weeks of development, I have been told.


Exactly the reason is for mobile portability without hanging around with one USB stick for ilok, leave it free for usb instruments and so on… l also work without cloud based authorization is needed in venues without WIFI


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

Flyo said:


> Exactly the reason is for mobile portability without hanging around with one USB stick for ilok, leave it free for usb instruments and so on… l also work without cloud based authorization is needed in venues without WIFI


When I am more experienced with the Pace software I can make a well informed decision.


----------



## devonmyles (Nov 19, 2022)

Hi Folks, I received an email with the link for the Berlin Studio 1.0.2 update on Windows (earlier this morning UK time).
I've tries both Edge and Chrome browsers and I'm getting this error. So, I can't get access to the update.

Cheers...

Anyone else having this problem?


----------



## mgaewsj (Nov 19, 2022)

Flyo said:


> I want to add my request for iLok machine autorización to, is a must need, when everything was ready ported to their license scheme


+1 for machine authorization
not having it is a show stopper if you work (at the same time) on multiple machines


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## Trash Panda (Nov 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Why will you not be able to use an iLok dongle or iLok cloud? Do you have a reason for machine-based?
> 
> I will receive the Pace / iLok development software next week and start integrating it. This will take at least two weeks of development, I have been told.


iLok Cloud is a pain in the ass to deal with when you switch between machines often. Machine activations removes the extra steps of logging into iLok to move your cloud session.


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## rudi (Nov 19, 2022)

devonmyles said:


> Hi Folks, I received an email with the link for the Berlin Studio 1.0.2 update on Windows (earlier this morning UK time).
> I've tries both Edge and Chrome browsers and I'm getting this error. So, I can't get access to the update.
> 
> Cheers...
> ...


I got the same, but clicking on advanced gave me a more detailed error message on Edge:

"This server couldn't prove that it's *url5873.samplicity.com*; its security certificate is from **.sendgrid.net*. This may be caused by a misconfiguration or an attacker intercepting your connection."

So it looks like a mismatch between the certificates between the two domains.

When I clicked on "Continue to url5873.samplicity.com (unsafe)" in Edge, at first it seemed to do nothing, but after a while I noticed a progress bar on the icon for Edge on the taskbar. When the progress bar completed the install file for version 1.0.2 was in my download directory. The install worked fine. The version number on the plugin GUI shows it as version 1.0.5.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

rudi said:


> I got the same, but clicking on advanced gave me a more detailed error message on Edge:
> 
> "This server couldn't prove that it's *url5873.samplicity.com*; its security certificate is from **.sendgrid.net*. This may be caused by a misconfiguration or an attacker intercepting your connection."
> 
> ...



This is indeed from SendGrid, my email list provider. My first email "shot" via them.

I now understand that they wrap links somehow for measurements. A big company, strange that this can happen.

Please send me an email if you have issues / questions like this.


----------



## Ivan Duch (Nov 19, 2022)

Ivan Duch said:


> Been testing the reverb throughout the morning. Ended up replacing all my current spacialization solutions. It sounds incredible and it's very versatile. I love the interface as well. Super convenient.
> 
> In case it helps somehow: In Reaper it is running like a charm. On Ve Pro not so much. On my end it seems to be the interface that is quite cpu heavy and slows ve pro to a crawl but only while I keep the interface open. I don't have a dedicated video card so that might be related.
> 
> ...



VEP interface in general gets slow on my end when instances are connected. So my initial thoughts are that it's something related to how VEP handles graphics. 

Other plugins don't cause this issue, though. I tested the vst2 version (needed for vep) on Reaper as well and it worked without issues. CPU consumption is very low, even with the interface opened. 

As for iLok cloud. In my case cloud requires a constant internet connection. It's a pain but Vepro already requires that in my case. 

Not sure why developers are moving away from machine activation on Ilok. But VSL told me they didn't support it.


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## rrichard63 (Nov 19, 2022)

Ivan Duch said:


> Not sure why developers are moving away from machine activation on Ilok.


Machine activation is believed to be easier to crack than either dongle or cloud activation. The reasons for that are above my pay grade.


----------



## Jett Hitt (Nov 19, 2022)

I am anything but a tech guru (that's why I'm a Mac user), but I thought that it would be simple enough to revert to the initial version of the plugin (1.0.1?). That does not seem to be the case, however. Even after running the original installer, the plugin remains at 1.0.2. The option to remove the plugin is grayed out. I don't think I have ever seen this before. 

So to clarify where things stand, the plugin crashes the validation in Native Silicon mode, but it will run with the CPU spiking between 75-100% and clipping when a note is played. In Rosetta mode, it simply says Not Authorized with no option to do so.


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Nov 19, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I am anything but a tech guru (that's why I'm a Mac user), but I thought that it would be simple enough to revert to the initial version of the plugin (1.0.1?). That does not seem to be the case, however. Even after running the original installer, the plugin remains at 1.0.2. The option to remove the plugin is grayed out. I don't think I have ever seen this before.
> 
> So to clarify where things stand, the plugin crashes the validation in Native Silicon mode, but it will run with the CPU spiking between 75-100% and clipping when a note is played. In Rosetta mode, it simply says Not Authorized with no option to do so.


I actually could go back to 1.0.1 easily. I deleted the plug ins in their folders by hand, ran the old installer and Berlin Studio runs again in VE-Pro on my old Mac slave. Still not perfect on CPU, but hey, better than nothing


----------



## devonmyles (Nov 19, 2022)

rudi said:


> I got the same, but clicking on advanced gave me a more detailed error message on Edge:
> 
> "This server couldn't prove that it's *url5873.samplicity.com*; its security certificate is from **.sendgrid.net*. This may be caused by a misconfiguration or an attacker intercepting your connection."
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the reply, rudi.

My error seems to be slightly different.
When I click on 'advance' I don't seem to have the option "Continue to url5873.samplicity.com (unsafe)"


----------



## rudi (Nov 19, 2022)

@devonmyles curiouser and curiouser.

I don't know why we're both getting different options.
My version of Edge is as follows:

Microsoft Edge Version 107.0.1418.52 (Official build) (64-bit)

I am on Windows 10, latest version too.


----------



## Trevor Meier (Nov 19, 2022)

For anyone on Logic/M1, I just experienced the very-loud-sound bug with the new Berlin Studio 1.0.2 when adjusting the EQ on the surround mic. Logic showed 236.2dB above full-scale! Currently looking for all the pieces for my monitor drivers 😂 

In the meantime, I'd recommend holding off using the plugin just yet while Peter has a chance to look into it. Which is a hard wait... in my testing so far it sounds fantastic!


----------



## devonmyles (Nov 19, 2022)

rudi said:


> @devonmyles curiouser and curiouser.
> 
> I don't know why we're both getting different options.
> My version of Edge is as follows:
> ...



I am on Windows 10, latest version as well
But my Microsoft Edge Version is 107.0.1418.35 (Official build) (64-bit).
I've just seen that there is an Edge update available. I will update later and take it from there.

*EDIT:* Updated Edge to Version 107.0.1418.52 (Official build) (64-bit) and it's the same error message and I can't retrieve the Berlin Studio 1.0.2 update.
Oh well, thanks for your help, rudi.


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Nov 19, 2022)

It´s not only M1 I‘m afraid. I guess Peter has a hard time. Everybody loves Berlin Studio, but a lot of (mostly Mac) users got (different) problems


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 19, 2022)

Think I'll wait for the trial given all the issues people are running into.


----------



## Kalli (Nov 19, 2022)

Trevor Meier said:


> For anyone on Logic/M1, I just experienced the very-loud-sound bug with the new Berlin Studio 1.0.2 when adjusting the EQ on the surround mic. Logic showed 236.2dB above full-scale! Currently looking for all the pieces for my monitor drivers 😂
> 
> In the meantime, I'd recommend holding off using the plugin just yet while Peter has a chance to look into it. Which is a hard wait... in my testing so far it sounds fantastic!


Peter is aware of the EQ feedback issue. I sent him a bug report about it some time back and he promised to look into it. So it's on his radar.

In my experience, there's no risk of it happening unless you activate the EQ and increase the gain, so my recommendation would be to hold off using the EQ, rather than the entire plugin, for now.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 19, 2022)

devonmyles said:


> I am on Windows 10, latest version as well
> But my Microsoft Edge Version is 107.0.1418.35 (Official build) (64-bit).
> I've just seen that there is an Edge update available. I will update later and take it from there.
> 
> ...


Just send me an email, @devonmyles - like I said earlier.

I don't have V.I. Control nicknames in my records (!) - If I can send you the links by email, you can download without any problem.

This is caused by a big company that will lose me as a customer.
Will try to switch to MailChimp or whatever.


----------



## devonmyles (Nov 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Just send me an email, @devonmyles -* like I said earlier.*
> 
> I don't have V.I. Control nicknames in my records (!) - If I can send you the links by email, you can download without any problem.
> 
> ...



Sorry, I missed that for some reason. 
Okay, thank you I will forward my email.


----------



## Trevor Meier (Nov 19, 2022)

Kalli said:


> Peter is aware of the EQ feedback issue. I sent him a bug report about it some time back and he promised to look into it. So it's on his radar.
> 
> In my experience, there's no risk of it happening unless you activate the EQ and increase the gain, so my recommendation would be to hold off using the EQ, rather than the entire plugin, for now.


I’m posting the warning because the bug was supposed to be fixed in 1.0.2, the new update released today. I’ve already emailed Peter etc. but just a heads up for folks


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## Kalli (Nov 19, 2022)

Trevor Meier said:


> I’m posting the warning because the bug was supposed to be fixed in 1.0.2, the new update released today.


We might be talking about different bugs then. The one I reported was not addressed in the release notes for 1.0.2, so I’d assume it’s still there.


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 19, 2022)

Trevor Meier said:


> For anyone on Logic/M1, I just experienced the very-loud-sound bug with the new Berlin Studio 1.0.2 when adjusting the EQ on the surround mic. Logic showed 236.2dB above full-scale! Currently looking for all the pieces for my monitor drivers 😂
> 
> In the meantime, I'd recommend holding off using the plugin just yet while Peter has a chance to look into it. Which is a hard wait... in my testing so far it sounds fantastic!


Did the loud noise happen while using 256 buffer size, right? Or 512? Peter will definitely look into it and fix it. I’m constantly helping him out alleviate this but it takes time. You guys must be careful with this bug as you don’t want to break your speakers or worse, your ears.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

I have created a new test setup and with that, I can confirm that I am replicating reported issues with Silicon, Logic and AU validation at the moment. Not yet tried, but this may also include other setup combinations.

For now I recommend not to update. Contact me via email (or PM here) if you no longer have the installer of the first release and want to revert.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

AllenConstantine said:


> Did the loud noise happen while using 256 buffer size, right? Or 512? Peter will definitely look into it and fix it. I’m constantly helping him out alleviate this but it takes time. You guys must be careful with this bug as you don’t want to break your speakers or worse, your ears.


I will try to add non-obtrusive hard limiting: allowing overflowing with say 12 dB, but clip rogue signals.


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## JeffvR (Nov 20, 2022)

For those who are interested. I measured a couple of delays, not all of them yet. 

percussion forward dry > tree = 24 ms
woodwinds dry > tree = 15 ms
violins 1 dry > tree = 7 ms
violas dry > tree = 10 ms

Different mics don't seem to add extra delays.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

JeffvR said:


> For those who are interested. I measured a couple of delays, not all of them yet.
> 
> percussion forward dry > tree = 24 ms
> woodwinds dry > tree = 15 ms
> ...


Nice!
When the dust has settled  I will document/publish all those measurements, I have them somewhere, sample accurrate


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 20, 2022)

I just got a huge "spike" of random noise during playback with BS on Master Bus and as insert on 1 instrument (thank goodness I have a limiter with "protection setting" on Master Bus)

Edit: Windows 11, Cubase 12


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I have created a new test setup and with that, I can confirm that I am replicating reported issues with Silicon, Logic and AU validation at the moment. Not yet tried, but this may also include other setup combinations.
> 
> For now I recommend not to update. Contact me via email (or PM here) if you no longer have the installer of the first release and want to revert.


Repeating my advice to not use the update;
and also adding the advice to not use the plugin in Logic (which has no protection against rogue signals; some other Daws do).

I am working on this, and seeing anomalies that need fixing, in a Logic environment (at least)


----------



## ansthenia (Nov 20, 2022)

I purchased this plugin but when I click the link to download the Mac installer, either in my emails or from the samplicity website, it says invalid download link?


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Repeating my advice to not use the update;
> and also adding the advice to not use the plugin in Logic (which has no protection against rogue signals; some other Daws do).
> 
> I am working on this, and seeing anomalies that need fixing, in a Logic environment (at least)


Dear Peter, 

You are absolutely a fine gentleman who strives for a better performance of your fabulous reverb plugin! 

Great things come to those who thrive! Keep up the good work. 

Best,
A.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

ansthenia said:


> I purchased this plugin but when I click the link to download the Mac installer, either in my emails or from the samplicity website, it says invalid download link?


I will send the information by email


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I will send the information by email


It would be very helpful if you could post a bit of instruction about how to remove Berlin Studio from Logic so that we can reinstall the first edition. My remove option is grayed out, and I haven't found where Logic stores this.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> It would be very helpful if you could post a bit of instruction about how to remove Berlin Studio from Logic so that we can reinstall the first edition. My remove option is grayed out, and I haven't found where Logic stores this.


If you re-run the previous installer, it should put the first, 1.0.1 version back. 

You do not have to remove it from Logic, as it is not installed in a folder related to or managed by Logic, but by MacOS.

Send me a PM if you want to know where the files are stored.


----------



## Trash Panda (Nov 20, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos is it possible to have the balance controls only impact the dry signal or have a separate set of controls only for the dry signal?


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> If you re-run the previous installer, it should put the first, 1.0.1 version back.
> 
> You do not have to remove it from Logic, as it is not installed in a folder related to or managed by Logic, but by MacOS.
> 
> Send me a PM if you want to know where the files are stored.


I will send you a PM, but for the record, rerunning the previous installer does not remove 1.0.2 from my system. I think someone else above had the same problem.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos is it possible to have the balance controls only impact the dry signal or have a separate set of controls only for the dry signal?


I can understand the request and put it on "the" list.

In my setup I would not use that, because the input should be panned to the position from where the IRs were created. But that is being too strict and theoretical


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I will send you a PM, but for the record, rerunning the previous installer does not remove 1.0.2 from my system. I think someone else above had the same problem.


Hosts like Logic can cache information on plugins that can make this stuff really, really confusing.

The only way to know the version of a plugin file, is to verify it with Command-I in the Finder.

The files are located in
/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/
/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/
/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST3/

You need to press Shift-Command-. (dot) to reveal the /Library folder

If you remove the Berlin Studio files from here, you are sure they are gone.


----------



## AlbertSmithers (Nov 20, 2022)

Is it possible to output the Decca, A/B Signal, & Surround to separate midi channels?


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

AlbertSmithers said:


> Is it possible to output the Decca, A/B Signal, & Surround to separate midi channels?


You mean audio channels?

No, but there are plans for a surround version, with surround panners in the input/reverb channels.


----------



## AlbertSmithers (Nov 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> You mean audio channels?
> 
> No, but there are plans for a surround version, with surround panners in the input/reverb channels.


Ooh that sounds neat.

I've got a question then:

If I were to put several instances of Berlin Studio on the same instrument but only use one mic each and mute the rest (so I could theoretically route the individual mic outputs out) would the CPU usage be the same as if I were to use one instance, or would there be a significant increase in CPU usage?

Thanks, and the demos sound great!


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

AlbertSmithers said:


> Ooh that sounds neat.
> 
> I've got a question then:
> 
> ...


Thanks!

You can stop most of a channel's processing by setting its tail level to zero, after two seconds its processing will stop. The way you describe it indeed has very little overhead.

Mute cannot do that, as you want reverb to keep going for being able to toggle the mute and solo buttons (otherwise you'd get weird missing reverb dips in your output using them).


----------



## AlbertSmithers (Nov 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thanks!
> 
> You can stop most of a channel's processing by setting its tail level to zero, after two seconds its processing will stop. The way you describe it indeed has very little overhead.
> 
> Mute cannot do that, as you want reverb to keep going for being able to toggle the mute and solo buttons (otherwise you'd get weird missing reverb dips in your output using them).


Perf. Thanks for the quick reply!


----------



## Trash Panda (Nov 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I can understand the request and put it on "the" list.
> 
> In my setup I would not use that, because the input should be panned to the position from where the IRs were created. But that is being too strict and theoretical


So if I’m understanding you, we should be feeding pre-panned signals into Berlin Studio if the placement is not centered in the IR? 

For example, trumpets with a centered source signal should be panned to the right a bit?


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> So if I’m understanding you, we should be feeding pre-panned signals into Berlin Studio if the placement is not centered in the IR?
> 
> For example, trumpets with a centered source signal should be panned to the right a bit?


Now I am confused myself - some local overload I guess... 🙃

No, the stereo input is played "as if through the monitor" we used.
Each position had this monitor once at the Left side and once at the Right side of a "position".
So what goes into the reverb can be "wide" and will be "played back" more narrow in the hall.

Which confirms the earlier point/request that the dry signal channel needs a panner... Oh joy...

Luckily I am still very dedicated haha - and will add that very soon,


----------



## portego (Nov 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Which confirms the earlier point/request that the dry signal channel needs a panner... Oh joy...


That's so your fault. Make a less awesome reverb and nobody would care 😜



Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Luckily I am still very dedicated haha


And you should be. The comments here are not hate. It's the opposite. People care because it's awesome and the fact that it even could be more awesome. Like awesome squared 🤯. You really had a stunning idea and did an amazing job with your reverb. Your involvement and dedication will also not go unnoticed -> I predict a flourishing future 🎱🧙‍♂️


----------



## Jett Hitt (Nov 20, 2022)

portego said:


> And you should be. The comments here are not hate. It's the opposite. People care because it's awesome and the fact that it even could be more awesome. Like awesome squared 🤯. You really had a stunning idea and did an amazing job with your reverb. Your involvement and dedication will also not go unnoticed -> I predict a flourishing future 🎱🧙‍♂️


I second this. When this plugin worked, and granted there are a few wrinkles, it was instant gratification. So simple and easy to implement. Beautiful concept and stunning results.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

portego said:


> That's so your fault. Make a less awesome reverb and nobody would care 😜
> 
> 
> And you should be. The comments here are not hate. It's the opposite. People care because it's awesome and the fact that it even could be more awesome. Like awesome squared 🤯. You really had a stunning idea and did an amazing job with your reverb. Your involvement and dedication will also not go unnoticed -> I predict a flourishing future 🎱🧙‍♂️


Thanks so much! 

This time I will not rush out another update, but have much more testing done first.

The AU validation issue is gone. Now the few others


----------



## Simon Ravn (Nov 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Repeating my advice to not use the update;
> and also adding the advice to not use the plugin in Logic (which has no protection against rogue signals; some other Daws do).
> 
> I am working on this, and seeing anomalies that need fixing, in a Logic environment (at least)


Hi Peter. I have not followed every post in this thread and just got your plugin. Are you saying that it doesn't work at all on Logic yet?? Or just the new version of the plugin doesn't and I should stick to 1.0.1?


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 20, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Hi Peter. I have not followed every post in this thread and just got your plugin. Are you saying that it doesn't work at all on Logic yet?? Or just the new version of the plugin doesn't and I should stick to 1.0.1?


Hey Simon,

Issue 1
Both released versions do not pass the AU validator, so Logic reports it as disabled, alas, because of what, it does not report, but I found out:

It fails to work correctly to a test with out-of-range sample rates, like 22.5 kHz
This can be resolved by allowing the plugin manually in Logic's Plugin Manager
This situation is actually worse in the update 1.0.2 I sent out than in the original 1.0.1 release (hanging/crashing the validator).

Issue 2
Some people are experiencing very loud noises, at first we thought only in Logic, but it also reported now in some Steinberg and/or RME related setups.
In the 1.0.2 update there was a fix for an issue in the Silicon code, but it was unfortunately not the main or only reason for this loud noise situation.

Other people, with other setups I guess, have no problems at all. And even post beautiful results and online reviews. I am comforted that nothing suspect has been reported related to the actual (very complex) reverb processing in the plugin.

Doing my best to resolve this all!


----------



## Allen Constantine (Nov 21, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> Issue 1
> Both released versions do not pass the AU validator, so Logic reports it as disabled, alas, because of what, it does not report, but I found out:
> ...


Thanks for keeping us updated, Peter! 

I'm sure you'll fix these things. Reach out anytime you need help. 

Cheers bro!


----------



## Simon Ravn (Nov 21, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> Issue 1
> Both released versions do not pass the AU validator, so Logic reports it as disabled, alas, because of what, it does not report, but I found out:
> ...


Hi Peter.

It certainly works here. Version 1.0.2 seems to work without any problems (so far). And sounding awesome! I am on Intel and Logic 10.6.3 still so maybe it is only problematic on Logic 10.7.x or something. 

Wow - this is really great, Peter. Feeding the dry Berlin Soloists from Orchestral Tools e.g. immediately sets them in a nice scoring stage space. Incredible really!

I think it has already been suggested but some panning options - or a way for the input signals panning also affecting the output of the mic signals would be great. Don't know how or what is possible, but would certainly make placement even more flexible and easy.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 21, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Hi Peter.
> 
> It certainly works here. Version 1.0.2 seems to work without any problems (so far). And sounding awesome! I am on Intel and Logic 10.6.3 still so maybe it is only problematic on Logic 10.7.x or something.
> 
> Wow - this is really great, Peter. Feeding the dry Berlin Soloists from Orchestral Tools e.g. immediately sets them in a nice scoring stage space. Incredible really!


Thanks so much Simon!


----------



## Simon Ravn (Nov 21, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thanks so much Simon!


So Peter.... when will you do Abbey Road Studio ....?


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 21, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> So Peter.... when will you do Abbey Road Studio ....?


From some insiders I have heard that they are not keen on that 

Would be an amazing adventure. I have been there once during an orchestral recording, that hall has such an impressive sound! But Teldex in Berlin has around the same size as AR 1


----------



## Simon Ravn (Nov 21, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> From some insiders I have heard that they are not keen on that
> 
> Would be an amazing adventure. I have been there once during an orchestral recording, that hall has such an impressive sound! But Teldex in Berlin has around the same size as AR 1


Yeah I figure they are almost considering the room sound intellectual property. But would be amazing. Teldex sounds very good but AR has a somewhat different and darker sound I think. So having those two would just be.... wow! I know you can tweak your plugin with EQ built-in etc. So you can probably get close.

But yes - I think they are not gonna allow that.


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 21, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Hi Peter.
> 
> It certainly works here. Version 1.0.2 seems to work without any problems (so far). And sounding awesome! I am on Intel and Logic 10.6.3 still so maybe it is only problematic on Logic 10.7.x or something.
> 
> ...


Hi Simon, 

Did you try using different buffer sizes? Especially 256, 128, 64, anything lower than 512? 

Many thanks,
Allen


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## Kalli (Nov 21, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> I think it has already been suggested but some panning options - or a way for the input signals panning also affecting the output of the mic signals would be great. Don't know how or what is possible, but would certainly make placement even more flexible and easy.


I just wanted to +1 to the request for panning options. The value of this became apparent when I tried to place a harp on the left using the mid stage wide position. Panning the input to the left only affects the dry signal. The other signals sound as if the harp was center stage, so there is a perceivable mismatch. I don't know what is technically possible, but further panning functionality for applications like this would be a great addition!

@Peter Emanuel Roos, I understood from your previous post that you recorded the IRs separately L and R at each stage position. Does that mean it's technically possible to emulate the effect of sound coming only from the L position?


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 21, 2022)

AllenConstantine said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> Did you try using different buffer sizes? Especially 256, 128, 64, anything lower than 512?
> 
> ...


Hi Allen. You are right: I normally run at 512 where it seems to work nicely. 256 ALMOST works, but some clicks. 128 and below I get regular "rhythmic" click/pop sound.


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## Flyo (Nov 21, 2022)

Hi @Peter Emanuel Roos it is possible that the intro period price reboot, when these incoming revisions resolve ‘everything’ and plug-in format at AAX was ported?


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 21, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Hi Allen. You are right: I normally run at 512 where it seems to work nicely. 256 ALMOST works, but some clicks. 128 and below I get regular "rhythmic" click/pop sound.


Thanks for checking. Strange that you are getting different things like clicks. 
For me and other users, there is a loud "feedback" sort of noise when you use a peak boost in the EQ. 

Can you try that as well? 

Many thanks. 
Allen


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 21, 2022)

AllenConstantine said:


> Thanks for checking. Strange that you are getting different things like clicks.
> For me and other users, there is a loud "feedback" sort of noise when you use a peak boost in the EQ.
> 
> Can you try that as well?
> ...


Will check tomorrow. Havent touched the EQ yet. The click I am experiencing seem like CPU overload ones even though the core isnt peaking in Logic.


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 21, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Will check tomorrow. Havent touched the EQ yet. The click I am experiencing seem like CPU overload ones even though the core isnt peaking in Logic.


This happens to me in Logic as well. If I load the plug-in, one core pulses between 75-100%, and it clips when it hits 100.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 21, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I just wanted to +1 to the request for panning options. The value of this became apparent when I tried to place a harp on the left using the mid stage wide position. Panning the input to the left only affects the dry signal. The other signals sound as if the harp was center stage, so there is a perceivable mismatch. I don't know what is technically possible, but further panning functionality for applications like this would be a great addition!
> 
> @Peter Emanuel Roos, I understood from your previous post that you recorded the IRs separately L and R at each stage position. Does that mean it's technically possible to emulate the effect of sound coming only from the L position?


No, it has an effect on all the mics, but it's less pronounced once it's run through the IRs. Stick a flute on the Mid Stage Wide and set the L or R input knob to the extreme of one side or the other (e.g. set L all the way to R or set R all the way to L). You can hear a difference, but it's subtle.


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## Kalli (Nov 21, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> No, it has an effect on all the mics, but it's less pronounced once it's run through the IRs. Stick a flute on the Mid Stage Wide and set the L or R input knob to the extreme of one side or the other (e.g. set L all the way to R or set R all the way to L). You can hear a difference, but it's subtle.


You're right! The effect is more audible on other source materials than on the one I tried, where it was extremely subtle. Thanks for pointing that out!


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## jon wayne (Nov 21, 2022)

Is it common that download links show errors on Samplicity? I received links immediately, but said they were invalid.


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## Go To 11 (Nov 21, 2022)

jon wayne said:


> Is it common that download links show errors on Samplicity? I received links immediately, but said they were invalid.


Chrome would not let me download the latest emailed update. I logged into my email on Safari and it worked fine. Try a different browser perhaps.


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## Go To 11 (Nov 21, 2022)

Just confirming that any use of the EQ creates an ear-shattering volume spike in Logic for me. I feel this should come with an official warning via an email from yourself @Peter Emanuel Roos so as to warn others as it was quite unpleasant and with headphones on like I had could do some damage. I will avoid the EQ until this is confirmed as fixed of course. All else working fine except validation.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 22, 2022)

Hey all,

Do not use the 1.0.2 version. It was rushed out too quickly - a start-up mistake, my bad.

An update that fixes this is being tested and will be distributed after more tests (not only by me).

This version also includes the needed stereo panner in the Dry channel, with an indication where the sound is panned.

I hope to give white smoke, green lights, fireworks and more apologies within a few days 

This fix will also include hard clipping above (say) +12 dB.
Daws like Reaper do this out-of-the-box, sad that Logic does not do that.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 22, 2022)

Go To 11 said:


> Chrome would not let me download the latest emailed update. I logged into my email on Safari and it worked fine. Try a different browser perhaps.


Caused by the email list provider I selected this summer. Not usable this way... 

I have to look into an alternative or a way to make them use the links as they are.

The samplicity domains are safe with SSL/Https - the emailer inserts something that seems not certified.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 22, 2022)

Kalli said:


> I just wanted to +1 to the request for panning options. The value of this became apparent when I tried to place a harp on the left using the mid stage wide position. Panning the input to the left only affects the dry signal. The other signals sound as if the harp was center stage, so there is a perceivable mismatch. I don't know what is technically possible, but further panning functionality for applications like this would be a great addition!
> 
> @Peter Emanuel Roos, I understood from your previous post that you recorded the IRs separately L and R at each stage position. Does that mean it's technically possible to emulate the effect of sound coming only from the L position?


I have of course been focusing on the noise / AU issues, but I found this missing feature also very important.

My current version now has stereo panning (also) in the Dry channel, with an indication of where the sound "goes". 

When the update has been well tested it will be distributed.


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## Kalli (Nov 22, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I have of course been focusing on the noise / AU issues, but I found this missing feature also very important.
> 
> My current version now has stereo panning (also) in the Dry channel, with an indication of where the sound "goes".
> 
> When the update has been well tested it will be distributed.


This sounds awesome, Peter! Let me know if you need help with beta testing.


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## Heinigoldstein (Nov 22, 2022)

Really looking forward to the update, but…..will there be any improvement concerning the heavy CPU load in Logic too ?I guess it might be related to the EQ noise, so I‘m slightly confident.


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## constaneum (Nov 22, 2022)

Probably not just logic...even in FL studio. I had about 12 instances and I noticed the CPU is around 50 to 60% and occasionally will spike. When disabling all the instances, it'll be around 30%


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## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 22, 2022)

Hello I have a question:

So instead of inserting it on all my instruments, would it make sense to send all my instrument to group channels that have Berlin studio on them? Worried my cpu is taking hits with all the plugins loaded


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## Ike (Nov 22, 2022)

I was about to purchase this especially at this price but the computer usage and noise issues has gotten me scared. I would use it for every section in the orchestra and that would be a lot of instances. I’m running a newer i7 with 64 gb of ram and I never have issues with my computer coming close to 100 % usually runs around 30-40 % with a full 50 track piece loaded with fxs. Peter is this something that will be fixed in the future and should I wait till the kinks are worked out? Will this intro price last a little longer? Forgot to mention I’m on windows 11 Cubase 12.50. Thank you so much !!!!


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## Trash Panda (Nov 22, 2022)

Ike said:


> I was about to purchase this especially at this price but the computer usage and noise issues has gotten me scared.


Since you're not using Logic or FL Studio, I think you're safe from these issues.


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## Living Fossil (Nov 22, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hello I have a question:
> 
> So instead of inserting it on all my instruments, would it make sense to send all my instrument to group channels that have Berlin studio on them? Worried my cpu is taking hits with all the plugins loaded


I create busses for some instruments (e.g. Horn1,2,3,4 or the woodwinds) and use direct inserts on instruments with an own position (like V1, V2, VA, VC etc.)


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## Trash Panda (Nov 22, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> I create busses for some instruments (e.g. Horn1,2,3,4 or the woodwinds) and use direct inserts on instruments with an own position (like V1, V2, VA, VC etc.)


Same here. I've been doing some pre-panning going into the plugin for separating Horns 1-4 and the various woodwind/percussion sections as well.


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## Ike (Nov 22, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Since you're not using Logic or FL Studio, I think you're safe from these issues.


Thanks for your response T Panda. I thought someone mentioned issues with steinberg so I assumed Cubase. I’m on the fence either this or OT Modus ! Lol


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## NeonMediaKJT (Nov 22, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> I create busses for some instruments (e.g. Horn1,2,3,4 or the woodwinds) and use direct inserts on instruments with an own position (like V1, V2, VA, VC etc.)


What would be the best way to do that in cubase? A group track over a send track?


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## Living Fossil (Nov 22, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> What would be the best way to do that in cubase? A group track over a send track?


Sorry, no idea, I'm on Logic...


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 24, 2022)

Ike said:


> I was about to purchase this especially at this price but the computer usage and noise issues has gotten me scared. I would use it for every section in the orchestra and that would be a lot of instances. I’m running a newer i7 with 64 gb of ram and I never have issues with my computer coming close to 100 % usually runs around 30-40 % with a full 50 track piece loaded with fxs. Peter is this something that will be fixed in the future and should I wait till the kinks are worked out? Will this intro price last a little longer? Forgot to mention I’m on windows 11 Cubase 12.50. Thank you so much !!!!


The current intro price will run until the end of the year.

The fixes for the current issues are being tested (rather a few days more than the previous hurry).

The loud noise issue was very likely in the EQ department, which has been rewritten in the last days (the processing part), with 64 bit processing; faster and more accurate as a side-effect.

The validation issue was the plugin blowing up the AU validator when it was told to process at 22.5 kHz. An internal downsampler was switched on to up-sample - not anticipated buffer overruns, but easy to fix.

Emailing issues from the website will hopefully be fixed now I am switching to Mail Chimp, not in the first place for marketing emails, but for the so-called transactional emails (confirmation, download links).

Even with quite some convolutions being calculated, the processing should still be light. On a medium i5 laptop I have used 16 instances (all mics) for a demo, at 50% CPU in Reaper. I advise proper routing with groups and not to add so many full length reverb tails.

TIP: if you set a reverb channel's tail to zero, it will stop calculating the tail part after 2 seconds. The mute can't do that, as you would miss reverb when you toggle it back on. This was meant for positioning-only. I will be made a more understable setting in a next version (so, one toggle for positioning, making processing extremely light).

The late December update will have an option for enabling the multi-threading (which is off in the first releases), making calculations even lighter. Another option will be the first lossy computations option (there are more eggs in the basket, but not all will be added at once).


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## Ivan Duch (Nov 24, 2022)

Just wanted to stop by to say Ive been using the plugin all week without any issues. Its crazy good!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 24, 2022)

Ivan Duch said:


> Just wanted to stop by to say Ive been using the plugin all week without any issues. Its crazy good!


Wow, uplifting news for me - I have been quite busy ironing out the known issues (hoping they're gone, knock on wood).

Thanks so much!


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## Ivan Duch (Nov 24, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Wow, uplifting news for me - I have been quite busy ironing out the known issues (hoping they're gone, knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks so much!



No worries! I imagined youve been going crazy with all the debugging and reports. But the Reverb Is amazing. On dry percussion it does miracles.


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## tabulius (Nov 24, 2022)

I'm using the first release version with i7 6700K, Win10, and Studio One 5.5 and I haven't got any bugs or issues.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 24, 2022)

tabulius said:


> I'm using the first release version with i7 6700K, Win10, and Studio One 5.5 and I haven't got any bugs or issues.


That's nice, thanks for mentioning, top!


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## Trash Panda (Nov 24, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> The current intro price will run until the end of the year.
> 
> The fixes for the current issues are being tested (rather a few days more than the previous hurry).
> 
> ...


I know it may feel like you’re in a tunnel with no end right now, but I have to echo the sentiments about this working flawlessly and efficiently. 

I also don’t recall the last time a reverb got a 26 page thread in recent times. Just shows how special this plugin is. 🙂


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## devonmyles (Nov 24, 2022)

I'm running Nuendo12xx on a six year old i7/32 gig ram/W10. I don't seem to have any issues.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 25, 2022)

Thanks for these last remarks, appreciated!
I also did not have the noise issues, making it hard to debug it.

I would like to ask a few Logic users to help me with testing the latest "fix" version,
but: only if you have this loud noise problem.
Contact me by PM or email - thanks in advance!


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## SZK-Max (Nov 25, 2022)

MBP16 i9 64GB cubase12 RME BabyfaceFS

I don't know the cause. At first, there was a noise that EQ was causing a bit crash, but after reinstalling it, it was cured. A little CPU peaky.

This is really magic. It blended perfectly with the OT trumpets.
blue: MA5 Trps
red: AVB Trps




View attachment test-01.mp3

I'm looking forward to multithreading.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 25, 2022)

SZK-Max said:


> MBP16 i9 64GB cubase12 RME BabyfaceFS
> 
> I don't know the cause. At first, there was a noise that EQ was causing a bit crash, but after reinstalling it, it was cured. A little CPU peaky.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks so much!

There is a chance that the fix from this week also helps with reported CPU usage: if a plugin is processing really out-of-range values (noise), or very very small values (denormals) this may slow down calculations... EQ has been replaced/rewritten with better and faster 64 bit code.

I use slower Macs for testing - if you want to check the "fix", send me a PM.


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## chrisav (Nov 25, 2022)

SZK-Max said:


> MBP16 i9 64GB cubase12 RME BabyfaceFS
> 
> I don't know the cause. At first, there was a noise that EQ was causing a bit crash, but after reinstalling it, it was cured. A little CPU peaky.
> 
> ...


oh MY.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 25, 2022)

Question for the very few people who report "heavy CPU use" on Macs:

Is there a chance that your DAW is running in Rosetta 2 mode?

I just noticed that a new Cubase license installed here, on a Silicon Mac, started in Rosetta mode. Seems to be an Apple issue. Can be easily corrected, but it may/will as a side-effect move Berlin Studio to the Blocked plugins list.

[Edit: solved - Apple Rosetta does not support Intel AVX code, this was the reason why the plugin does not work after version 1.0.1 with Rosetta. Reverted in coming update]


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## Raphioli (Nov 25, 2022)

SZK-Max said:


> MBP16 i9 64GB cubase12 RME BabyfaceFS
> 
> I don't know the cause. At first, there was a noise that EQ was causing a bit crash, but after reinstalling it, it was cured. A little CPU peaky.
> 
> ...


wow that's a killer demo..
the tone of the trumpets themselves were probably similar, but the placement and space matches very well.
Amazing for an exposed demo.

Makes me wish there was an Air Studio version of this.
If the people at Air Studios heard this demo, they'd be like "hell no" (because it recreates the space so well) xD


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 25, 2022)

Raphioli said:


> wow that's a killer demo..
> the tone of the trumpets themselves were probably similar, but the placement and space matches very well.
> Amazing for an exposed demo.
> 
> ...


Air's Hall is such an amazing place, especially with what I call the UFO hovering over the orchestra. They can manage the tail lengths from moderate to loooong by raising it. HZ's favorite place to record, and rightfully so.

I bet as well: no sine sweep recordings allowed...?

And SZK-Max just reported to me he was able to run 32 instances of Berlin Studio


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 25, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Question for the very few people who report "heavy CPU use" on Macs:
> 
> Is there a chance that your DAW is running in Rosetta 2 mode?
> 
> ...


No. I can't even run the plugin in Rosetta (1.0.2). The original version ONLY ran in Rosetta, and I would have called it light on the CPU.


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## Ivan Duch (Nov 25, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Air's Hall is such an amazing place, especially with what I call the UFO hovering over the orchestra. They can manage the tail lengths from moderate to loooong by raising it. HZ's favorite place to record, and rightfully so.
> 
> I bet as well: no sine sweep recordings allowed...?
> 
> And SZK-Max just reported to me he was able to run 32 instances of Berlin Studio


Speaking of Spitfire, any tips on using Berlin for matching it to Abbey Road?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 25, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> No. I can't even run the plugin in Rosetta (1.0.2). The original version ONLY ran in Rosetta, and I would have called it light on the CPU.


1.0.2 crashes the AU validator, that is now certain.
See my call for testers above. And sending you a PM


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 25, 2022)

Ivan Duch said:


> Speaking of Spitfire, any tips on using Berlin for matching it to Abbey Road?


I was discussing the same with Allen C. yesterday. I have been once in AR 1, I remember it is more dense and open than Teldex, but this is so subjective. If you compare photos from both studios, to me it looks like Teldex has more, and more modern acoustics treatment, but I am a noob at that - just my impression.

But I bet a good mixing engineer can make AR, Air or Teldex sound alike, maybe even with their mic placement skills.
And: when I was at AR, there was at least one Bricasti switched on - no idea if the mix I heard had any signal from it.


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 25, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I was discussing the same with Allen C. yesterday. I have been once in AR 1, I remember it is more dense and open than Teldex, but this is so subjective. If you compare photos from both studios, to me it looks like Teldex has more, and more modern acoustics treatment, but I am a noob at that - just my impression.
> 
> But I bet a good mixing engineer can make AR, Air or Teldex sound alike, maybe even with their mic placement skills.
> And: when I was at AR, there was at least one Bricasti switched on - no idea if the mix I heard had any signal from it.


@Rctec can chime on this as he is friends with Alan Meyerson and many others mix engineers. 
Also, what @Peter Emanuel Roos has created here, it is a fabulous gem and we should all appreciate his efforts. Love this guy! 

Cheers,
A.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 25, 2022)

AllenConstantine said:


> @Rctec can chime on this as he is friends with Alan Meyerson and many others mix engineers.
> Also, what @Peter Emanuel Roos has created here, it is a fabulous gem and we should all appreciate his efforts. Love this guy!
> 
> Cheers,
> A.


Is the RC tech guy still here? Such a dear man!


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 25, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Is the RC tech guy still here? Such a dear man!


Of course he is! Waiting for the right moment to tune in! Great guy!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 25, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Question for the very few people who report "heavy CPU use" on Macs:
> 
> Is there a chance that your DAW is running in Rosetta 2 mode?
> 
> ...


Just found out the reason why Berlin Studio no longer ran in Rosetta mode after the first release. I had enabled the Intel AVX processor instructions... which are not supported in Rosetta.

Next update will have it disabled again, with a small performance penalty for people with "real Intel" macs. Apple is a


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## constaneum (Nov 26, 2022)

Testing out CSS (Spot 1 & Spot 2 Mics) + CSSS Solo Strings (Mix Mic) with Berlin Studio (Close & Tree Mics) with some EQ and Fresh Air.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 26, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> No. I can't even run the plugin in Rosetta (1.0.2). The original version ONLY ran in Rosetta, and I would have called it light on the CPU.


Fixed in coming update.
Apple Rosetta does not support Intel AVX instructions that were added in 1.0.2


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 26, 2022)

Latest update

Some users reported high CPU loads, this is very likely also fixed now.
Awaiting a few tests and working on the installer to force a Logic plugins scan.

A much better update will be sent out in the coming week

Website, direct purchasing and emailing issues have also been fixed


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## Allen Constantine (Nov 26, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Latest update
> 
> Some users reported high CPU loads, this is very likely also fixed now.
> Awaiting a few tests and working on the installer to force a Logic plugins scan.
> ...


Go Peter, GO! Well done, my friend! 

Can't wait for the new updated version!
Keep safe, 
A.


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 26, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Just found out the reason why Berlin Studio no longer ran in Rosetta mode after the first release. I had enabled the Intel AVX processor instructions... which are not supported in Rosetta.
> 
> Next update will have it disabled again, with a small performance penalty for people with "real Intel" macs. Apple is a


I am pretty sure there is a way to check if people are on Intel or AS and use AVX if you are on Intel as several plugins (like Massive) do use AVX..


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 26, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> I am pretty sure there is a way to check if people are on Intel or AS and use AVX if you are on Intel as several plugins (like Massive) do use AVX..


Not if you tell the compiler to generate AVX code when and where it can, for the executable code.

You can only do this if you check the CPU type at run-time and then use branching to select a part in your code that is optimized for specific operations on that processor.

Meaning that you only use such instructions in parts of your software and that you have multiple implementations for the same calculations.

This approach is used by libraries like Intel IPP and Apple vDSP, which I use. With this approach it is easy to say that you support even AVX512 - because they do that for you. But again, only for calculations that you run via them... If Massive supports AVX or a more advanced instruction set, it is done in this way.

But if you want all your code to take advantage of AVX, AVX2 or AVX512, it MUST be run on such a CPU or simply crash otherwise. This happens with Rosetta if your code contains AVX instructions.

I think there are obvious reasons why Apple does not (even) support this rather old Intel standard.


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 26, 2022)

Ah ok thanks for explaining. But you could compile two different versions and install AVX/Intel on those machines…? Or is that stupid?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 26, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Ah ok thanks for explaining. But you could compile two different versions and install AVX/Intel on those machines…? Or is that stupid?


I think that is pretty risky... because your would either need a really smart installer, or a wrapper plugin, with several implementations in them. In fact doing something like Rosetta, yourself.

Optimizing is also about finding "hot-spots", and most are typically covered by the libraries I mentioned. Optimizing your own parts is often a balance of increasingly more work, with less results.
Still, I have found significant differences between with and without AVX instructions; that's why I had switched it on - without enough Apple / Rosetta knowledge, doh...


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## Dylanguitar (Nov 26, 2022)

My apologies if this is not appropriate on a commercial thread. Can someone chime in on what Berlin Studio does that differs from Altiverb (it also samples Berlin). Money is tight and I don't want to buy something that offers more or less what's in altiverb. I understand that there is stage/section placement inside Berlin Studio, but can someone comment who owns both whether it makes a big difference in realism?
And if there are any others reasons to get it if you already own the former. Thanks!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 26, 2022)

Dylanguitar said:


> My apologies if this is not appropriate on a commercial thread. Can someone chime in on what Berlin Studio does that differs from Altiverb (it also samples Berlin). Money is tight and I don't want to buy something that offers more or less what's in altiverb. I understand that there is stage/section placement inside Berlin Studio, but can someone comment who owns both whether it makes a big difference in realism?
> And if there are any others reasons to get it if you already own the former. Thanks!


A very appropriate question, no problem at all, of course!

Regard,
Peter


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## Noeticus (Nov 27, 2022)

Dylanguitar said:


> My apologies if this is not appropriate on a commercial thread. Can someone chime in on what Berlin Studio does that differs from Altiverb (it also samples Berlin). Money is tight and I don't want to buy something that offers more or less what's in altiverb. I understand that there is stage/section placement inside Berlin Studio, but can someone comment who owns both whether it makes a big difference in realism?
> And if there are any others reasons to get it if you already own the former. Thanks!


I own both Berlin Studio and Altiverb, and I can say that now that I own Berlin Studio, I would most likely not need to use the Teldex IR within Altiverb again. But that doesn't mean that the Altiverb Teldex isn't great, it just means that Berlin Studio is many, many times more useful.

Berlin Studio is so good at what it does that it gets you there almost instantly. Sure, you can spend time adjusting the settings within Altiverb Teldex, but if you LOVE reverbs as much as I do then Berlin Studio is a game changer.

In terms of realism, they both are real and they both sound great, but Berlin Studios is like Altiverb Teldex on a hit of acid.

So, in the end, you don't need Berlin Studio, you just want it, and must have it.

🍸 🍸 🍸 🍸 🍸


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## Living Fossil (Nov 27, 2022)

Here's another test run with Berlin Studio (still version 1 inside of Metaplugin), in another constellation.

Woodwinds (VSL cube), Brass (MSB) and Strings (Nashville Scoring Strings) use Berlin Studio, while the percussion section – Cineperc, which I finally bought – has no additional reverb at all.

On the master, I've used Zynaptiq's Intensity and love how it enhances the details of the reverb.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 27, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> Here's another test run with Berlin Studio (still version 1 inside of Metaplugin), in another constellation.
> 
> Woodwinds (VSL cube), Brass (MSB) and Strings (Nashville Scoring Strings) use Berlin Studio, while the percussion section – Cineperc, which I finally bought – has no additional reverb at all.
> 
> On the master, I've used Zynaptiq's Intensity and love how it enhances the details of the reverb.



Stunning! respect!


----------



## ThomasB (Nov 27, 2022)

Noeticus said:


> I own both Berlin Studio and Altiverb, and I can say that now that I own Berlin Studio, I would most likely not need to use the Teldex IR within Altiverb again. But that doesn't mean that the Altiverb Teldex isn't great, it just means that Berlin Studio is many, many times more useful.
> 
> Berlin Studio is so good at what it does that it gets you there almost instantly. Sure, you can spend time adjusting the settings within Altiverb Teldex, but if you LOVE reverbs as much as I do then Berlin Studio is a game changer.
> 
> ...


I also have and use both. Cant agree more


----------



## dcoscina (Nov 27, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Samplicity (now a new company with an older owner) has been silently working on plugins in the last 1,5 year and is proud to announce it first product:
> 
> ...


Hmmm, download links aren't working. Just bought this today. Hopefully, it will get sorted out because I'm looking forward to using this.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 27, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> Hmmm, download links aren't working. Just bought this today. Hopefully, it will get sorted out because I'm looking forward to using this.


Already sent out as well by email, from my Deltaworks . nl account


----------



## dcoscina (Nov 27, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Already sent out as well by email, from my Deltaworks . nl account


Thanks Peter! Received and downloading! So excited to try this out. I use so much OT that it will be nice to apply the same space to non-OT sample libraries


EDIT- WOW WOW WOW WOW! Colour me amazed. This reverb is INCREDIBLE! 

Thanks again Peter for getting me all set so quickly!


----------



## Dylanguitar (Nov 27, 2022)

Noeticus said:


> I own both Berlin Studio and Altiverb, and I can say that now that I own Berlin Studio, I would most likely not need to use the Teldex IR within Altiverb again. But that doesn't mean that the Altiverb Teldex isn't great, it just means that Berlin Studio is many, many times more useful.
> 
> Berlin Studio is so good at what it does that it gets you there almost instantly. Sure, you can spend time adjusting the settings within Altiverb Teldex, but if you LOVE reverbs as much as I do then Berlin Studio is a game changer.
> 
> ...


You had me at "hit of acid."
Great response. Thank you.


----------



## Noeticus (Nov 27, 2022)

Dylanguitar said:


> You had me at "hit of acid."
> Great response. Thank you.


Thanks, oh, and, ah... sniffing glue might be better than a hit of acid. 

(Again, referring to your "Airplane" avatar.)


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 27, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> Thanks Peter! Received and downloading! So excited to try this out. I use so much OT that it will be nice to apply the same space to non-OT sample libraries
> 
> 
> EDIT- WOW WOW WOW WOW! Colour me amazed. This reverb is INCREDIBLE!
> ...


And thank you Dave!


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Nov 27, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Just found out the reason why Berlin Studio no longer ran in Rosetta mode after the first release. I had enabled the Intel AVX processor instructions... which are not supported in Rosetta.
> 
> Next update will have it disabled again, with a small performance penalty for people with "real Intel" macs. Apple is a


Well, I hope this response is too late and you solved the problem already  No Rosetta here, but heavy CPU loads on High Sierra and a real Intel Mac (actually two with my old slave).


----------



## Ike (Nov 27, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> The current intro price will run until the end of the year.
> 
> The fixes for the current issues are being tested (rather a few days more than the previous hurry).
> 
> ...


Thanks Peter it’s good to know this price will go throughout the year. I’m looking forward to purchasing it.


----------



## Ike (Nov 27, 2022)

Purchased !!!! Just waiting for working download links


----------



## JeffvR (Nov 28, 2022)

Some quick test between MIR Teldex stage and Berlin Studio. Alto flute recorded at home. I've used the Teldex Studio - Aufnahmesaal - Control Room position. Will try it with others. To me MIR sounds a bit more thin and Berlin Studio more warm. In the mix version I tried to make MIR a bit warmer and Berlin Studio a bit brighter with EQ to match them more.

Dry
View attachment 01. WW Alto Flute dry.mp3

Berlin Studio mixed
View attachment 02. Alto Flute Berlin mix.mp3

MIR mixed
View attachment 03. WW Alto Flute MIR mix.mp3

Berlin Studio full wet
View attachment 04. Alto Flute Berlin fully wet (no EQ).mp3

MIR full wet
View attachment 05. WW Alto Flute MIR fully wet (no EQ).mp3


----------



## Daren Audio (Nov 28, 2022)

JeffvR said:


> Some quick test between MIR Teldex stage and Berlin Studio. Alto flute recorded at home. I've used the Teldex Studio - Aufnahmesaal - Control Room position. Will try it with others. To me MIR sounds a bit more thin and Berlin Studio more warm. In the mix version I tried to make MIR a bit warmer and Berlin Studio a bit brighter with EQ to match them more.
> 
> Dry
> View attachment 01. WW Alto Flute dry.mp3
> ...



@JeffvR For workflow efficiency, which do you prefer to get your results faster?


----------



## JeffvR (Nov 28, 2022)

Daren Audio said:


> @JeffvR For workflow efficiency, which do you prefer to get your results faster?


Definitely Berlin Studio. MIR is more flexible, but so far I prefer Berlin Studio. It has a warmer sound and it somehow glues more natural with the dry signal.


----------



## Nico (Nov 29, 2022)

interesting plugin. Is it something better/similar to Virtual Sound Stage?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 29, 2022)

Nico said:


> interesting plugin. Is it something better/similar to Virtual Sound Stage?


Well, it has nothing virtual, at least. Detailed captures of real orchestral studio acoustics.


----------



## Ivan Duch (Nov 29, 2022)

JeffvR said:


> Definitely Berlin Studio. MIR is more flexible, but so far I prefer Berlin Studio. It has a warmer sound and it somehow glues more natural with the dry signal.


I also demoed MIR 3d and preferred the interface and sound of Berlin Studio.



Nico said:


> interesting plugin. Is it something better/similar to Virtual Sound Stage?


It's similar in the sense you can position instruments in a space. But the results are miles ahead to my ears.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Nov 30, 2022)

For the users who are active here, there is an update available, now simply on a new Downloads page on the Samplicity website (Support > Downloads). These downloads are of course only usable by customers with a corresponding license.

Tomorrow I will send an announcement mailing.

Cheers


----------



## Go To 11 (Dec 2, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> For the users who are active here, there is an update available, now simply on a new Downloads page on the Samplicity website (Support > Downloads). These downloads are of course only usable by customers with a corresponding license.
> 
> Tomorrow I will send an announcement mailing.
> 
> Cheers


Just wanted to confirm all good in Logic now. Plugin validated and I can use the EQs again. Thanks for ironing out the issues so swiftly. Much appreciated!


----------



## Allen Constantine (Dec 2, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> For the users who are active here, there is an update available, now simply on a new Downloads page on the Samplicity website (Support > Downloads). These downloads are of course only usable by customers with a corresponding license.
> 
> Tomorrow I will send an announcement mailing.
> 
> Cheers


Fabulous work, Peter!


----------



## Chris Hurst (Dec 2, 2022)

All working in logic here as well. Great plugin!


----------



## TeamLeader (Dec 2, 2022)

Love love *LOVING* this Peter. . So useful (note: i have a *lot* of experience with great live rooms and reverbs, and i would put this at or near top of list in form tone and function.)


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 2, 2022)

TeamLeader said:


> Love love *LOVING* this Peter. . So useful(note: i do have a *lot* of experience with great live rooms and reverbs, and i would put this at or near top of list in form tone and function.)


Wow, thank you so much...


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 2, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> VEPro does not support the VST3 plugin format


As you know, it is still not working for me in Logic on a Mac Studio Max 64GB. (It puts a massive strain on one core.) However, VEPro does indeed support VST3, and when I load up Berlin Soloists oboe in VEPro (routed to Logic) and throw Berlin Studio on it in the VEPro mixer, it _seems_ to work perfectly. I am not sure why it was believed that it would not work in VEPro.

By the time that I get three instruments loaded in VEPro with the plugin, however, I start to get crackles and pops.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 2, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> As you know, it is still not working for me in Logic on a Mac Studio Max 64GB. (It puts a massive strain on one core.) However, VEPro does indeed support VST3, and when I load up Berlin Soloists oboe in VEPro (routed to Logic) and throw Berlin Studio on it in the VEPro mixer, it _seems_ to work perfectly. I am not sure why it was believed that it would not work in VEPro.
> 
> By the time that I get three instruments loaded in VEPro with the plugin, however, I start to get crackles and pops.


It is very likely that you have accidentally discovered that the recent update also installed a Vst 2 version 

The Apple M1 / Silicon issue has my highest priority now. Not reported for all M1's - and of course not on mine.. :-(

Other setups seem to be running very fine now.

The record number of active instances before cracks went from 48 to 112 (not by me, that wouldn't be fair).


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 2, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> It is very likely that you have accidentally discovered that the recent update also has a Vst2 version


Well maybe, but I had a VEPro update to install when I opened it, and one of the install items was VST3, so I am not sure what all this means.


----------



## Breaker (Dec 2, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Well maybe, but I had a VEPro update to install when I opened it, and one of the install items was VST3, so I am not sure what all this means.


VEPro itself is VST3, but it cannot host VST3 plug-ins.


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 2, 2022)

Breaker said:


> VEPro itself is VST3, but it cannot host VST3 plug-ins.


This makes my head hurt.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 2, 2022)

when the update comes for m1 mac, how do I update? Just download again?


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 2, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> when the update comes for m1 mac, how do I update? Just download again?


Do you have issues with the plugin on an M1?

I want to make a list of users who have issues on Silicon chips and if possible of users who have it running fine on an M1.

On the download page I will always mention a version number and its release date. If I find and fix something that explains Mac M1 issues, I will do mailing to notify all user.

The update from this week was better tested than the first release, and I had enough reasons to believe that all reported M1 / Silicon issues were fixed as well.

Given


----------



## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 2, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Do you have issues with the plugin on an M1?
> 
> I want to make a list of the people who have issues on Silicon chips and if possible of user who have it running fine on an M1.
> 
> ...


No, I'm switching from a PC to a mac soon so this is just me trying to be prepared haha


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 2, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> No, I'm switching from a PC to a mac soon so this is just me trying to be prepared haha


Don't do it!


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Dec 2, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Do you have issues with the plugin on an M1?
> 
> I want to make a list of users who have issues on Silicon chips and if possible of users who have it running fine on an M1.
> 
> ...


Hi Peter,

I can confirm too, that the Logic validation is fine now and the EQ works. But the CPU usages is still pretty heavy, better though, but heavy. 50 instances seems absurd to me in the moment. Even 5 is too much (I‘m on BigSur with a 2015 iMac).
Maybe I don’t understand completely yet how Berlin Studio works too. In the beginning of this thread you mentioned, that the usage for positioning only, doesn‘t need much ram. But where’s the difference when I load a preset, lets say for 1st violins or front stage mics ? The CPU usage seems the same to me. 
I can reduce CPU, when I set tails for mics I don=t need to 0 right ? Any other tricks to reduce CPU hunger ?


----------



## berto (Dec 2, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Samplicity (now a new company with an older owner) has been silently working on plugins in the last 1,5 year and is proud to announce it first product:
> 
> ...


hello,

is there a trial version?

Thanks


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 2, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> No, I'm switching from a PC to a mac soon so this is just me trying to be prepared haha





Heinigoldstein said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> I can confirm too, that the Logic validation is fine now and the EQ works. But the CPU usages is still pretty heavy, better though, but heavy. 50 instances seems absurd to me in the moment. Even 5 is too much (I‘m on BigSur with a 2015 iMac).
> Maybe I don’t understand completely yet how Berlin Studio works too. In the beginning of this thread you mentioned, that the usage for positioning only, doesn‘t need much ram. But where’s the difference when I load a preset, lets say for 1st violins or front stage mics ? The CPU usage seems the same to me.
> I can reduce CPU, when I set tails for mics I don=t need to 0 right ? Any other tricks to reduce CPU hunger ?


I am baffled, you are using an Intel Mac. Not a recent Silicon one...

The software code for that is the exact same source code as for Windows. Ok, maybe 99.5% the same.

For Silicon there are more differences, also for computations. Not for Intel.

Can you share (maybe via email or PM?) what processor your Mac has (i5, i7?), how many cores and which speed?

On my Intel i5 dev laptop, 16 instances brings me to 50% CPU, with acceptable buffers sizes.

The next version has no processing when there is no input signal. This makes it easier to spot "CPU spikes" and to share their details. The 1.0.6 still has a constantly "running" engine.

Curious about your iMac's specs.

PS: I am playing a bit with Logic on my Intel Macbook Pro:
it makes a *big *difference if you set *Processor Buffer Range* to *Large*. At Small, the CPU usage is really high. And this is *not *your audio interface block size (!). I have that 128 samples, with a short roundtrip of 12 msec.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 2, 2022)

berto said:


> hello,
> 
> is there a trial version?
> 
> Thanks


No sorry, not before the iLok integration end of this month.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 2, 2022)

Glad to hear the issues have been (mostly) resolved - just purchased.


----------



## berto (Dec 2, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> No sorry, not before the iLok integration end of this month.


Thanks. Will the price change after ilok ?


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 3, 2022)

berto said:


> Thanks. Will the price change after ilok ?


No, the current price was planned for the remainder of the year, not related to the iLok version planned for this month. The intro price will be extended until end of February.


----------



## constaneum (Dec 3, 2022)

awesome update @Peter Emanuel Roos . I'm not having anymore EQ spikes and noises with this version. Thanks for the update.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 3, 2022)

constaneum said:


> awesome update @Peter Emanuel Roos . I'm not having anymore EQ spikes and noises with this version. Thanks for the update.


Thanks for mentioning this, top!


----------



## constaneum (Dec 3, 2022)

By the way Peter, did you disable the function to key in the value we want for this field? coz that's a very useful feature. Pardon me in case i've missed out anything on the update log.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 3, 2022)

constaneum said:


> By the way Peter, did you disable the function to key in the value we want for this field? coz that's a very useful feature. Pardon me in case i've missed out anything on the update log.


That is correct, it was not designed to be available and it was not "styled" as such. I now remember you mentioned it.

Not going to be difficult with this, I will send you a personal fix this weekend, and integrate a better looking approach, in the next version. Cheers!


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Dec 3, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I am baffled, you are using an Intel Mac. Not a recent Silicon one...
> 
> The software code for that is the exact same source code as for Windows. Ok, maybe 99.5% the same.
> 
> ...


Thanks Peter, sent you a mail to your support address


----------



## FrozenIcicle (Dec 3, 2022)

Not that anyone cares but I won’t be getting this because I have altiverb and bought cinematic rooms pro yesterday and have run out of money, BUT I have read this thread and really appreciate your communication and support answering everyone’s queries and also quickly updating the plugin each time. Hopefully I could support at a later stage but thankyou for your passion and such a great IR verb.


----------



## chrisav (Dec 3, 2022)

I'm VERY much looking forward to getting this one, just waiting to see what the EDU discount situation is gonna look like. Might get it as a Christmas present to myself...


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 4, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos I stumbled onto what I think is an interesting development. @dcoscina mentioned that Berlin Studio wasn't recognized in Musescore 4, but on my system it is. I am able to load and use the plugin in Musescore 4, and it does not seem to affect the CPU adversely as it does in Logic. So far as I can tell, this is purely a Logic problem.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 4, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos I stumbled onto what I think is an interesting development. @dcoscina mentioned that Berlin Studio wasn't recognized in Musescore 4, but on my system it is. I am able to load and use the plugin in Musescore 4, and it does not seem to affect the CPU adversely as it does in Logic. So far as I can tell, this is purely a Logic problem.


Maybe there is an update that I haven’t downloaded that might make it visible in MuseScore? I thought it might have to do with me being on an M1 Mac but you are running silicon as well Jett…


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 4, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos I stumbled onto what I think is an interesting development. @dcoscina mentioned that Berlin Studio wasn't recognized in Musescore 4, but on my system it is. I am able to load and use the plugin in Musescore 4, and it does not seem to affect the CPU adversely as it does in Logic. So far as I can tell, this is purely a Logic problem.


Thanks for supporting me with this.

I am also doing quite "deep" timings and comparisons, and Logic is simply not in the same league as Cubase and Reaper on Mac. The differences cannot be blamed on plugins... Logic does not seem to have, or cannot share, the horsepower that other DAWs have.

And, I need to sit on my hands when it comes to Apple software... but that is so difficult for me 

Most DAWs are created and maintained by music and audio focused companies. And often from Germany. OK, Steinberg is now Yamaha, but you bet the audio related stuff is really from Steinberg.

Logic was bought around 2003 by Apple from German eMagic - and many have seen it afterwards to get code for their Garageband concept.

And why, oh why, would Apple do their best for a niche?
They don't care as a company, maybe a few dedicated developers do, maybe not even.

Googling about Logic I read a LOT of complaints of it getting slower in time.

With Logic on Intel, I can still load an interesting number of Berlin Studios (thanks to Intel and their math libraries).

On Apple I am once more stuck with Apple's suboptimal vDSP math library, which is also known to give incorrect Fourrier results and for its very bad documentation (common Apple problem).

Hah! I did it - I was not able to remain sitting on my hands.

But I do like Apple hardware 

In the mean time, I have been able to get the plugin running 2x more efficient on Silicon. And no longer use CPU power when idle.


----------



## nordicguy (Dec 4, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hah! I did it - I was not able to remain sitting on my hands.
> 
> But I do like Apple hardware
> 
> In the mean time, I have been able to get the plugin running 2x more efficient on Silicon. And no longer use CPU power when idle.


Respect.

Many thanks for the hard work, this is much appreciated!


----------



## Camus (Dec 8, 2022)

Hi Peter,

I love your plugin. It is of great value. Am I wrong or is there one thing missing: where do you put the soloist. Would be nice to have a specified place for the soloist also. Or do you have a suggestion where to put it without using other plugins?


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 8, 2022)

Camus said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> I love your plugin. It is of great value. Am I wrong or is there one thing missing: where do you put the soloist. Would be nice to have a specified place for the soloist also. Or do you have a suggestion where to put it without using other plugins?


Thanks  

Well, this plugin gives you the studio acoustics, as "recorded" by three top notch microphone sets, as if there are performers playing at multiple locations in the studio.

You are in the control room, at the recording desk, politely telling a solo performer, via the talk-back system, to move around, and take his or her spot microphone along. You even have some delay lines to compensate for distances between the mic sets and the spot mic (i.e. the source channel).

Wouldn't there be any spot in the hall, or any mix that you can setup to catch this soloists performance in a way that pleases you? 

Suppose I would have picked a few spots and had said: this preset shall be used for the solo singer. And this one for the solo cellist (at his desk? or in the center?), the grand piano..., etc. 

I fear that would have come accross as making too many decisions for the user.

I have recorded the acoustics with a global approach, covering the hall in major sections. For some users maybe already too confining (why French Horns on the left?). I think choices by me for specific soloist locations would have been interpreted as even more confining. 

The plugin was meant to be used in an opposite way from the onset:
provide the required localisation cues (early reflections, differences between microphone sets, clarity/directness vs fusion/space) per section in order to make each section/preset have a realistic signature sound.

And to be used creatively: 
What I have called percussion forward is not much different from the woodwinds, but enough to give it that label. But there is nothing wrong with using a Percussion preset for the flutes and clarinets, if that sounds better!

Hope this helps a bit,
Cheers


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 8, 2022)

Camus said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> I love your plugin. It is of great value. Am I wrong or is there one thing missing: where do you put the soloist. Would be nice to have a specified place for the soloist also. Or do you have a suggestion where to put it without using other plugins?


I find the Front Stage Wide and Mid Stage Wide to be good for soloists. Just tweak the L/R values under Input to narrow the stereo image being fed in, then tweak the L/R values under the Direct Signal to pan.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 8, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I find the Front Stage Wide and Mid Stage Wide to be good for soloists. Just tweak the L/R values under Input to narrow the stereo image being fed in, then tweak the L/R values under the Direct Signal to pan.


In the update I posted today on the Samplicity Downloads page, I have changed the name from Direct Signal to "Source". The third new name. First it was Dry signal, I believe. It's a struggle 

I hope to send out an email soon about this update.

No more CPU when idle gives a more relaxed feeling when you are just looking at your screen, waiting for inspiration.

The "no more calculations" for channels at 0 dB can be very handy if CPU power is tight.


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 8, 2022)

I never bother to use the A/B or Surround/Ambient microphones with my libraries because I always use external reverbs to get that larger hall sound. I'm wondering how useful Berlin Studio would be for my template if I only used the tree and positional information... I think I've only heard demos using all of the mics. Are there any samples that show what the individual positions sound like with just the tree on dry and wet libraries?

Thanks!


----------



## Jett Hitt (Dec 8, 2022)

coprhead6 said:


> I never bother to use the A/B or Surround/Ambient microphones with my libraries because I always use external reverbs to get that larger hall sound. I'm wondering how useful Berlin Studio would be for my template if I only used the tree and positional information... I think I've only heard demos using all of the mics. Are there any samples that show what the individual positions sound like with just the tree on dry and wet libraries?
> 
> Thanks!


Funny you should ask because @A.Heppelmann just posted a video yesterday.


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 8, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Funny you should ask because @A.Heppelmann just posted a video yesterday.



Dang it's like someone made a video just for my question in 20 minutes 

So anyway I bought it...


----------



## Dewdman42 (Dec 8, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Not if you tell the compiler to generate AVX code when and where it can, for the executable code.
> 
> You can only do this if you check the CPU type at run-time and then use branching to select a part in your code that is optimized for specific operations on that processor.
> 
> ...



Am I understanding this correctly that this product requires CPU with AVX? Some of us still don’t have AVX so if so, have to defer this product until later along with massiveX and modo drums


----------



## chlady (Dec 8, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Am I understanding this correctly that this product requires CPU with AVX? Some of us still don’t have AVX so if so, have to defer this product until later along with massiveX and modo drums


I would be interested in hearing if that is the case as well since I am still on a Mac Pro 5.1 and was considering purchasing this plugin sometime soon .


----------



## coprhead6 (Dec 8, 2022)

Also it's been about two hours since purchase and I haven't gotten an email from sealbucket yet. Just wondering if anyone else had to wait a long time.


----------



## Zanshin (Dec 8, 2022)

coprhead6 said:


> Also it's been about two hours since purchase and I haven't gotten an email from sealbucket yet. Just wondering if anyone else had to wait a long time.


I believe it’s a manual process at the moment.


----------



## jon wayne (Dec 8, 2022)

chlady said:


> I would be interested in hearing if that is the case as well since I am still on a Mac Pro 5.1 and was considering purchasing this plugin sometime soon .


5.1 here. No problems.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 8, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Am I understanding this correctly that this product requires CPU with AVX? Some of us still don’t have AVX so if so, have to defer this product until later along with massiveX and modo drums


AVX is not required at all. One version of the plugin had it enabled for the entire plugin, and this one could crash Rosetta, which does not support this Intel technology.

To make it even more technical: Berlin Studio *does make *use the fast instruction sets that your CPU supports (checked at run-time). It is not a requirement though.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 8, 2022)

chlady said:


> I would be interested in hearing if that is the case as well since I am still on a Mac Pro 5.1 and was considering purchasing this plugin sometime soon .


This is going the rumours direction...

Please read my answer above.

And all Intel Macs from 10+ support AVX by the way, this is a quite old technology.

Apple has decided to block it in its Rosetta however, so I had to pull the (only) version where I had used it for all entire plugin code. Just to make sure it will not crash in Rosetta mode.

AVX is NOT required - it IS supported when available (like AVX2, AVX512) on Intel Macs.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Dec 8, 2022)

Glad to hear AVX is not required. Macpro 5,1 which are still quite commonly in use even ten years later, do not have AVX. Many of us are still using this mac for now though most of us will also jump to Apple silicon in the next few years


----------



## Camus (Dec 9, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thanks
> 
> Well, this plugin gives you the studio acoustics, as "recorded" by three top notch microphone sets, as if there are performers playing at multiple locations in the studio.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your explanation. True! I was thinking of just a simple soloist in the middle in front of the orchestra. For shure one can create that with the tools you gave us inside this plugin.


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## Montisquirrel (Dec 9, 2022)

Is this a great tool for placing instruments into a room like Virtual Sound Stage 2 ?

There was a question about how Berlin Studio compares to Virtual Sound Stage 2 (VSS2) in this thread, but there was no satisfiying answer, so I try to ask this question again:

I don't care so much about the "Teldex Sound", but I care a lot about tools who help me focusing on composing and less about mixing. Since many years, I use VSS2 and I like it. It helped me a lot. As far as I understand VSS, I need to add a Reverb tail (however, thats how I did al the time, like VSS2 as an insert and Valhalla Room as a send to add a tail). As far as I understand Berlin Studio, it places instruments in a Room and has all the reverb options I need. *Long story short: Is Berlin Studio like VSS2 on steriods?*

Another question:
My music is a mix of orchestral Instrumenst and electronic music, and in VSS2 I can easily place as many instrtuments where ever I want. For example, Violins 1 to the left and next to it a synth pad and next to it a synth plug. In Berlin Studio it seams there is a fixed number of spots. So If I place Violin 1 into the Violin 1 Slot and another insert of Berlin Studio on, lets say, a synth pad, can I put this also in the violin 1 slot? Are there any troubles? Hope you understand my question.


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## Heinigoldstein (Dec 10, 2022)

Montisquirrel said:


> Is this a great tool for placing instruments into a room like Virtual Sound Stage 2 ?
> 
> There was a question about how Berlin Studio compares to Virtual Sound Stage 2 (VSS2) in this thread, but there was no satisfiying answer, so I try to ask this question again:
> 
> ...


Peter explained the technical differences already. I don't want to spend too much time on mixing either, so I try to explain it from mys perspective. I used VSS2 for dry instruments here and there. Its not bad at all, it helps with positioning. But Berlin Studio plays in a totally different league. It´s positioning plus room and its sounds way more natural. And it means even less mixing hustle, because it instantly sounds great.
The downside is, that I could easily use dozens of VSS2 instances without significant CPU usage. That's not the case with Berlin Studio in the same way. I think you would need a very powerful system to have individual inserts for every orchestral section or even instrument. But as far as I understand, Peter tries to improve this too. So VSS is more a cheap little and helpful one room apartment, while BS is a luxury villa with pool and four bathrooms


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## Montisquirrel (Dec 10, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> Peter explained the technical differences already. I don't want to spend too much time on mixing either, so I try to explain it from mys perspective. I used VSS2 for dry instruments here and there. Its not bad at all, it helps with positioning. But Berlin Studio plays in a totally different league. It´s positioning plus room and its sounds way more natural. And it means even less mixing hustle, because it instantly sounds great.
> The downside is, that I could easily use dozens of VSS2 instances without significant CPU usage. That's not the case with Berlin Studio in the same way. I think you would need a very powerful system to have individual inserts for every orchestral section or even instrument. But as far as I understand, Peter tries to improve this too. So VSS is more a cheap little and helpful one room apartment, while BS is a luxury villa with pool and four bathrooms


Thank you for your answer.
I think I wait for the demo version and try before buy.


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## jon wayne (Dec 10, 2022)

Montisquirrel said:


> Thank you for your answer.
> I think I wait for the demo version and try before buy.


Just remember that there is no support with VSS2 and it does color the sound, but it works. I am not sure why they seemed to abandoned their product!


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 11, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos I never received an email about the new update (perhaps it is coming), but I downloaded 1.0.8 from the website. At first, I had the usual pulsing crackle when I played a note, but then I noticed that I wasn't getting the same CPU spike as before, despite the crackle. And then, the crackle went away. I haven't done extensive testing, and I am not saying that it is fixed, but it is defintiely way better in Logic.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 11, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos thank you for bringing back the ability to manually enter numerical values in the volume sliders. Can they also be added to the rest of the controls?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 11, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos I never received an email about the new update (perhaps it is coming), but I downloaded 1.0.8 from the website. At first, I had the usual pulsing crackle when I played a note, but then I noticed that I wasn't getting the same CPU spike as before, despite the crackle. And then, the crackle went away. I haven't done extensive testing, and I am not saying that it is fixed, but it is defintiely way better in Logic.


Logic remains a weird puzzle to me, not a byte has been changed within the calculation parts.

I only created some "smart gates" that keep an eye on significant input and output and bypass the processing if possible.

In individual sections as well, so when a reverb channel is set to zero and no longer has output to return, it is "shut down". Previously it kept on processing (each reverb channel = 1/3 of the plugin's CPU usage).


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 11, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos thank you for bringing back the ability to manually enter numerical values in the volume sliders. Can they also be added to the rest of the controls?


Hehe, I was expecting that! Yes, but that needs more tweaking in GUI. I am now first focusing on the iLok integration.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 12, 2022)

I don’t say this too often about sample libraries or plugins, but for anyone on the fence, just buy this thing! 

I’ve been creating a review for this plugin and am absolutely blown away by it. The reflections are unreal, and it’s crazy how much it resembles the space in the OT libraries, which makes it a must buy if you are wanting to blend your OT libraries with other ones. Or if you just want that Teldex sound, then Berlin Studio will get you there!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 12, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> I don’t say this too often about sample libraries or plugins, but for anyone on the fence, just buy this thing!
> 
> I’ve been creating a review for this plugin and am absolutely blown away by it. The reflections are unreal, and it’s crazy how much it resembles the space in the OT libraries, which makes it a must buy if you are wanting to blend your OT libraries with other ones. Or if you just want that Teldex sound, then Berlin Studio will get you there!


Thanks so much Mike!


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## Heinigoldstein (Dec 12, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos I never received an email about the new update (perhaps it is coming), but I downloaded 1.0.8 from the website. At first, I had the usual pulsing crackle when I played a note, but then I noticed that I wasn't getting the same CPU spike as before, despite the crackle. And then, the crackle went away. I haven't done extensive testing, and I am not saying that it is fixed, but it is defintiely way better in Logic.


I experience the same. It crackles in the beginning, but it becomes less after a little while. But the crackles come back randomly, it‘s weird and I‘m afraid it‘s not fixed yet. Peter is very helpful though and I cross fingers, that he get this fixed for us Logic users, because I totally agree to Mike Fox otherwise !


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## Montisquirrel (Dec 12, 2022)

If I buy it now and keep the files, will I be able to use it in the future without any iLok? (and no updates of course)


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 13, 2022)

Montisquirrel said:


> If I buy it now and keep the files, will I be able to use it in the future without any iLok? (and no updates of course)


Interesting idea, but no.

From the start the site has mentioned "iLok required". The current licences will be migrated to iLok and the registration system that is used now will be abolished after one or two years.


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## Montisquirrel (Dec 13, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Interesting idea, but no.
> 
> From the start the site has mentioned "iLok required". The current licences will be migrated to iLok and the registration system that is used now will be abolished after one or two years.


Thank you for the answer. Please consider to add iLok machine activation.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 13, 2022)

Heinigoldstein said:


> I experience the same. It crackles in the beginning, but it becomes less after a little while. But the crackles come back randomly, it‘s weird and I‘m afraid it‘s not fixed yet. Peter is very helpful though and I cross fingers, that he get this fixed for us Logic users, because I totally agree to Mike Fox otherwise !


I have written a long reply, that I am actually not (yet) posting.
These noises come from Logic, in combination with Berlin Studio.
If someone can run three Seventh Heaven instances instead of one Berlin Studio in an otherwise similar project and show me that they run much better, I would be very happy to see some details!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 13, 2022)

Montisquirrel said:


> Thank you for the answer. Please consider to add iLok machine activation.


This is high on the list!


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 13, 2022)

Just set up a new Mac, installed Berlin studio and finding the cpu meter goes crazy when I have Berlin loaded. This is in logic. Gonna play around with it some more today


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 13, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Just set up a new Mac, installed Berlin studio and finding the cpu meter goes crazy when I have Berlin loaded. This is in logic. Gonna play around with it some more today


Before suspecting Berlin Studio, please check with an alternative DAW. Not all DAWs are created equal.

Reaper can be installed as a trial, I would be very interested to learn how Berlin Studio runs in Reaper on your hardware and software setup.

On my M1 Mac, the plugin uses a few percent CPU in Reaper and up to 30% in Logic, which is running on Efficiency instead of Performance cores


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## Giscard Rasquin (Dec 13, 2022)

I’m having an issue where when I insert Berlin in an empty project in Cubase 12, it works fine, but when I insert it on a track in my orchestral template, Cubase freezes every time whereas the rest of the time, the template works perfectly without freezing. Anybody else having this problem? I can see that when this happens the MIDI OUT meter in Cubase is stuck at max level. Don’t know if it has something to do with it or if it’s just a result of the crash.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 13, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Before suspecting Berlin Studio, please check with an alternative DAW. Not all DAWs are created equal.
> 
> Reaper can be installed as a trial, I would be very interested to learn how Berlin Studio runs in Reaper on your hardware and software setup.
> 
> On my M1 Mac, the plugin uses a few percent CPU in Reaper and up to 30% in Logic, which is running on Efficiency instead of Performance cores


I’ll try it in cubase today. I’m not having much luck with logic at all really. Cpu metre going crazy with minimal plugins.
When I had it working on cubase in windows it was pretty much flawless.

Would I be able to dm you about these things?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 13, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I’ll try it in cubase today. I’m not having much luck with logic at all really. Cpu metre going crazy with minimal plugins.
> When I had it working on cubase in windows it was pretty much flawless.
> 
> Would I be able to dm you about these things?


Of course!


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 13, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Of course!


I Appreciate it! 😊


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 13, 2022)

Giscard Rasquin said:


> I’m having an issue where when I insert Berlin in an empty project in Cubase 12, it works fine, but when I insert it on a track in my orchestral template, Cubase freezes every time whereas the rest of the time, the template works perfectly without freezing. Anybody else having this problem? I can see that when this happens the MIDI OUT meter in Cubase is stuck at max level. Don’t know if it has something to do with it or if it’s just a result of the crash.


Have you tried the recent 1.0.8 update? It no longer uses CPU when "idle".
The previous version would start using its average CPU requirements right away after inserting.

For my info: computer/platform?

The plugin does not use Midi.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 13, 2022)

I want to quote this here, from a post by @NeonMediaKJT :

"I’m not having much luck with logic at all really. Cpu metre going crazy with minimal plugins.
When I had it working on cubase in windows it was pretty much flawless."

Please, before assuming that there are problems with the plugin, do not forget to question the program that you want to use it in.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 13, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I want to quote this here, from a post by @NeonMediaKJT :
> 
> "I’m not having much luck with logic at all really. Cpu metre going crazy with minimal plugins.
> When I had it working on cubase in windows it was pretty much flawless."
> ...


Could be that I’m on Ventura since the machine is brand new. Not sure how I can troubleshoot this yet


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 13, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Could be that I’m on Ventura since the machine is brand new. Not sure how I can troubleshoot this yet


Ha, sorry if my quote may be misunderstood! Not meant for your situation at all

I quoted it for other Logic users who may believe that Berlin Studio is the only reason for their problems with it.


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 13, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I have written a long reply, that I am actually not (yet) posting.
> These noises come from Logic, in combination with Berlin Studio.
> If someone can run three Seventh Heaven instances instead of one Berlin Studio in an otherwise similar project and show me that they run much better, I would be very happy to see some details!


Hmmmm. . . . I don't own Seventh Heaven, but I do own Cinematic Rooms Pro, Valhalla, Neoverb, and EW Spaces. I can run all of these on multiple instances. I can't run Berlin Studio on one instance. It is not like Logic won't run external reverbs.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 13, 2022)

I’m on an M1 Macbook Pro, using Cubase.

Zero issues with the Berlin plugin.

I may actually d/l Logic just to see how it runs. 

Sucks that some of you guys are having issues with the plugin. Hopefully these compatibility issues can be ironed out soon.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 13, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Hmmmm. . . . I don't own Seventh Heaven, but I do own Cinematic Rooms Pro, Valhalla, Neoverb, and EW Spaces. I can run all of these on multiple instances. I can't run Berlin Studio on one instance. It is not like Logic won't run external reverbs.


I should have mentioned: convolution reverb plugins, like Seventh Heaven. Not reverb in general, sorry.


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## Giscard Rasquin (Dec 14, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Have you tried the recent 1.0.8 update? It no longer uses CPU when "idle".
> The previous version would start using its average CPU requirements right away after inserting.
> 
> For my info: computer/platform?
> ...


Hoi Peter,

yes, it´s the 1.0.8 update.
PC is Windows 11 with Intel 12900K and 32GB RAM on main PC.
If you prefer we can talk over email as this is the commercial release thread


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## Drumdude2112 (Dec 14, 2022)

This plug is one giant WOW 🤩.
How long is intro pricing going to last ?


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## shawnsingh (Dec 14, 2022)

me: *looks at empty wallet, but hears Teldex-reverberated angelic choir sounds when seeing the lonely credit card in there...*


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## doctoremmet (Dec 15, 2022)




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## Markrs (Dec 15, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


>



He does seem pretty pleased with it 😀


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## Markrs (Dec 15, 2022)

The comments that DJ is making in the video are the same ones that I have made in another thread that we can use these type of approaches rather than have lots of mic positions. Most comments have said this is good for ”dry” instruments, where you don’t get other mic positions. However I think solutions like this are great when you want to use less SSD space and RAM with a sample library even it it came with mic positions. SSD and RAM can be pretty costly in laptops, but processing power is more easily available, especially with the M1/M2 macs, so this looks like a good option to me.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 15, 2022)

M1/M2 macs do not have more/better processing power than cheaper Intel setups.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 15, 2022)

Markrs said:


> He does seem pretty pleased with it 😀


Phew... I have only checked the first minutes until now


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## MPortmann (Dec 15, 2022)

Hi Peter-congratulations on your new products. Past customer of purchasing your IR’s. This is long thread and haven’t read through it. Are there any future plans for demo versions of Gemini and Berlin Studios? Thanks


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 15, 2022)

MPortmann said:


> Hi Peter-congratulations on your new products. Past customer of purchasing your IR’s. This is long thread and haven’t read through it. Are there any future plans for demo versions of Gemini and Berlin Studios? Thanks


Thanks!

Yes, there are certainly plans for trial versions. I have started with the iLok integration which I needed to handle this. This may take a couple of weeks though. Until this version and the AAX version are available, the intro price will remain as it is now.

Cheers


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## Trash Panda (Dec 15, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos in advance of the automated delay compensation between mics, are you able to share what those values should be? We know the woodwinds are about 18 ms delay on the close mics. Any delay that should be applied on Tree or AB to match surround?

What about the other sections?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 15, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos in advance of the automated delay compensation between mics, are you able to share what those values should be? We know the woodwinds are about 18 ms delay on the close mics. Any delay that should be applied on Tree or AB to match surround?
> 
> What about the other sections?


No ETA on this information unfortunately.

Personally I would not add _different _delays to mic sets, as they are sample-accurate in balance with each other in terms of timing. I would only experiment with that if I were looking for a specific effect, sound, or correction I have in mind. The internal IRs are all processed and edited as related to each other, in time and in levels.

The compensation I referred to is for the preset "locations", i.e. their distance/delay with respect to the Decca Center mic.


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## TomaeusD (Dec 15, 2022)

This plugin is fantastic, well done!

I do have one question - perhaps I am approaching the three mic mixes incorrectly, but is there a way to make them more distinguished? Currently I cannot hear any difference between them in Violins 1 positioning, save for additional volume. The size is currently at 70.4% for all, which seems perfect for me. I know I could adjust pre-delay, increase the dry level, tail and ER, etc. to change the sounds but I'd like to be able to isolate the character of the mic mixes more. I think I am expecting more of a closer feel from the decca tree.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 16, 2022)

(see my other reaction - bug confirmation)


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## oxo (Dec 16, 2022)

i bought it today and i'm confused. i can hardly hear any difference between the 3 microphones. ... now i find this thread and see that it is similar to TomaeusD above. either my ears have failed, or i didn't understand the concept of berlin studio. the three different microphones should sound different, right?

here i made a short video. the instrument is a dry flute. i run through the sequence 2x through each solo microphone. i do that first for the celli stage position, then for the woodwinds stage position. i can clearly hear the differences between the two stage positions. but i can hardly hear the difference between the 3 individual microphones within the respective stage position.


View attachment 3 mics.mp4


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## Gabriel S. (Dec 16, 2022)

oxo said:


> i bought it today and i'm confused. i can hardly hear any difference between the 3 microphones. ... now i find this thread and see that it is similar to TomaeusD. either my ears have failed, or i didn't understand the concept of berlin studio. the three different microphones should sound different, right?
> 
> here i made a short video. the instrument is a dry flute. i run through the sequence 2x through each solo microphone. i do that first for the celli stage position, then for the woodwinds stage position. i can clearly hear the differences between the two stage positions. but i can hardly hear the difference between the 3 individual microphones within the respective stage position.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I also find these last demos closer than I'd expect. I'd expect more contrast between the A-B and the Surrounds. The Surrounds being way wider than the A-B...the difference in the stereo image should be quite obvious. The position 1 (Cellos) would be way closer to the Right Surround Mic than the Left one, therefore the contrast should be evident. Instead, I hear and see a lot of energy in the center (for all demos). 

Also, I'd expect more difference between the Decca and the A-B. At least the stereo image should be quite different.

I hear a difference in depth between the Cello position and the Woodwinds position, but it doesn't sound to me like it's coming from the Cello section and the other from the Woods section...the image sounds kinda strange to me. You are sure we are only listening the Berlin Instance and not the dry sample being added on top, right?

Let's see what @Peter Emanuel Roos says


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## oxo (Dec 16, 2022)

Gabriel S. said:


> You are sure we are only listening the Berlin Instance and not the dry sample being added on top, right?


yes i am sure. berlin studio was inserted in the signal chain of an dry flut channel. no other signal went to the master output. you only hear the signal that goes through the plugin.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 16, 2022)

Anybody experiencing very high CPU / CPU spikes with this in Cubase 12 on Mac? Single instance with Sample Modeling Horn is taking up like 60% of my CPU.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 16, 2022)

I’m definitely hearing a difference between the mics. The decca sounds a tad closer than the A-B mics, while the A-B mics have somewhat of a larger bloom and tail. I don’t hear a huge difference, but it’s definitely there!

And the problem with expecting the surround mics to sound drastically different is that the other mics are already pretty wide sounding, so while I can definitely hear the stereo image spread a little wider with the surround mics, I wouldn’t expect to notice a huge difference with a stereo setup.

I think the difference in mics become more and more noticeable when they are turned up and are working in conjunction with eachother, as opposed to being isolated.

At least that’s what my ears and assumptions are telling me.


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 16, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Anybody experiencing very high CPU / CPU spikes with this in Cubase 12 on Mac? Single instance with Sample Modeling Horn is taking up like 60% of my CPU.


Which Mac? This is the first I’ve heard of this in Cubase. I have this problem in Logic on an M1, but it seems to run fine in Musescore.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 16, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Anybody experiencing very high CPU / CPU spikes with this in Cubase 12 on Mac? Single instance with Sample Modeling Horn is taking up like 60% of my CPU.


Mac M1, Cubase 12 user here. Zero issues.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 16, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Which Mac? This is the first I’ve heard of this in Cubase. I have this problem in Logic on an M1, but it seems to run fine in Musescore.


Intel iMac. It doesn’t seem to do this in Logic for me.


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## SZK-Max (Dec 16, 2022)

I try to ran a sweep at the decca position of Cello and checked it. I'm not sure, but I think LR is reversed.

Reversed
View attachment test-01.mp3


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## constaneum (Dec 16, 2022)

In my opinion, you will need to adjust the volume of each mic, even with the dry signal though to make it sounds more obvious


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 17, 2022)

Just to say that the problem with Logic isn't affecting everyone, it works fine here in Logic and CPU usage isn't crazy. I tried 15 instances and buffer size 256 and 512 without any problems. With 128 I started getting clicks. But I always run at 512 anyway.

This is with version 1.0.6 btw.


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## robgb (Dec 17, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos 

Something I don't understand about this plugin. Is it meant be used on a buss/send setup or on each individual track? If buss/send, how do you control the individual microphones for each instrument track being sent to it?

And if it's meant to be used on a per track basis, what does this do to memory and CPU?


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## Saxer (Dec 17, 2022)

Simon Ravn said:


> Just to say that the problem with Logic isn't affecting everyone, it works fine here in Logic and CPU usage isn't crazy. I tried 15 instances and buffer size 256 and 512 without any problems. With 128 I started getting clicks. But I always run at 512 anyway.
> 
> This is with version 1.0.6 btw.


M1 or Intel?


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 17, 2022)

For me, I get crazy high cpu spikes when a track is record enabled, but in playback it seems fine. (M1 Mac)


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 18, 2022)

Saxer said:


> M1 or Intel?


Oh sorry. Important information left out: Intel.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 18, 2022)

oxo said:


> i bought it today and i'm confused. i can hardly hear any difference between the 3 microphones. ... now i find this thread and see that it is similar to TomaeusD above. either my ears have failed, or i didn't understand the concept of berlin studio. the three different microphones should sound different, right?
> 
> -- cut to focus on this --



*Bug confirmation*

I have investigated this thoroughly and with a *serious amount of shame* I have to admit that there is a *bug in the plugin*, which makes it not load the second and third reverb channel data, but replicate the data from the first reverb channel.

I will do my utmost best to release an update that fixes this as soon as possible and send out an announcement by email to all users.


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## Gabriel S. (Dec 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I have investigated this thoroughly and with a *serious amount of shame* I have to admit that there is a *bug in the plugin*, which makes it not load the second and third reverb channel data, but replicate the data from the first reverb channel.
> 
> I will do my utmost best to release an update that fixes this as soon as possible and send out an announcement by email to all users.


Thanks for the honesty Peter!


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## oxo (Dec 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> *Bug confirmation*
> 
> I have investigated this thoroughly and with a *serious amount of shame* I have to admit that there is a *bug in the plugin*, which makes it not load the second and third reverb channel data, but replicate the data from the first reverb channel.
> 
> I will do my utmost best to release an update that fixes this as soon as possible and send out an announcement by email to all users.


thank you for your quick feedback and the will to fix the bug.
what irritates me much more than the bug is that hardly any of the many professional users noticed it. ... i'm a less talented amateur musician who doesn't have particularly good ears ... and i noticed the bug immediately after starting the plugin for the first time. that irritates me a lot.


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## portego (Dec 18, 2022)

oxo said:


> what irritates me much more than the bug is that hardly any of the many professional users noticed it.


I find it funny, that everybody was already happy with the normal decca channel. Adjust decca and dry and off you go... It is kind of reassuring that even the pro's like an easy workflow and as soon as it sounds good, it's like "that's good enough" 😆


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## Gabriel S. (Dec 18, 2022)

oxo said:


> thank you for your quick feedback and the will to fix the bug.
> what irritates me much more than the bug is that hardly any of the many professional users noticed it. ... i'm a less talented amateur musician who doesn't have particularly good ears ... and i noticed the bug immediately after starting the plugin for the first time. that irritates me a lot.


That's the problem with the audio world. Sometimes you hear what you wanna hear instead of what's there. It happens to everybody at some point...confirmation bias!

I'm a professional and I immediately heard it. Thing is: it might be the same IR being loaded 3 times, but the final result is not 100% the same. Even the sound-waves don't look exactly the same. The other day I took your video recording, imported it into PT, sliced it and adjusted with sample accuracy the different mic positions, inverting polarity to check if I can cancel them 100% (canceling the A-B with the inverted polarity Surrounds, for instance). It cancelled a big portion of the audio, but definitely not everything (specially not the tail). So there is some truth in people hearing some subtle differences, because there are. But not enough to represent the difference in sound between a surround mic or A-B, or Decca vs A-B. As I said in my previous message, just the stereo image should be obviously different.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 18, 2022)

oxo said:


> thank you for your quick feedback and the will to fix the bug.
> what irritates me much more than the bug is that hardly any of the many professional users noticed it. ... i'm a less talented amateur musician who doesn't have particularly good ears ... and i noticed the bug immediately after starting the plugin for the first time. that irritates me a lot.


I get that... and respect for bringing your observations here, much appreciated.

At this moment I am still in a weird combination of shame and suprise... this is about a very few lines in the source code.

If I try to distance myself from that: I will only get better, promised!


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## oxo (Dec 18, 2022)

Gabriel S. said:


> So there is some truth in people hearing some subtle differences, because there are.


the differences can also arise because i recorded it by hand (differences in timing and velocity) and through round robin. but no matter, the main thing is that the bug has been found and will be fixed ... and everyone will be happy.


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## Gabriel S. (Dec 18, 2022)

oxo said:


> the differences can also arise because i recorded it by hand (differences in timing and velocity) and through round robin. but no matter, the main thing is that the bug has been found and will be fixed ... and everyone will be happy.


Ahh I thought it would be exactly the same several times, copy pasted. That's it then.


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## Gabriel S. (Dec 18, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos There's something else I've heard in some videos, for instance the DJ one. The imaging of the Decca sounds a bit inconcrete to me. For instance when something is sent to the "Cello" section of Berlin Studio, it sounds like if it was more the Surround mics than the Decca. I heard the out-of-phase color of very wide stereo mic placement. Decca in my experience sounds more concrete and it's easier to locate the instrument in the stereo field. In @oxo demos I hear the same: the flute in both positions (Cello and Woodwinds) sounds not very concrete in the stage. I checked also with a Vectorscope and the "Decca" of Berlin Studio Rev sounds and looks more similar to the Surround Mic position at OT Berlin Woodwinds than to their Decca Tree mics.

Here 3 examples
1- @oxo demo, wood section

View attachment oxo user demo - Wood section.mp3

2- @oxo demo, cello section
View attachment oxo user demo - Cello section.mp3


3- Orchestral Tools Flute - Surrounds
View attachment OT woods flute - SURROUND.mp3


4- Orchestral Tools Flute - Decca

View attachment OT woods flute - DECCA.mp3


To me, @oxo sound sounds closer to the Surrounds in terms of imaging and stereo location. In DJ I heard the same.

Minute 14:42


And then listen to this:
CSS - Main
View attachment CSS_Cello - Main.mp3


CSS - Room

View attachment CSS_Cello - Room.mp3



To me the Decca of Berlin Studio sounds again closer to a Room microphone set than to a Main/Decca/whatever. Yes, different rooms and libraries and all of that, but still. I think with a Decca should be easier to spot the instrument in the stereo field, like with CSS Main or OT Decca examples. So maybe is there another bug there and it's loading the surrounds for everything and not the Decca for everything?

Best!


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## Raphioli (Dec 18, 2022)

I sent a PM to Peter the other day regarding a phasing issue when recording all 3 mic positions separately and aligning the transients manually for each track. (I guess you can replicate this simply with the delay knob too?)
Something which happens when stacking the exact same sample.
But, I'm by no means a convolution reverb expert, so I sent a PM rather than posting here,
since I didn't want to create any unnecessary confusions.




Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I get that... and respect for bringing your observations here, much appreciated.
> 
> At this moment I am still in a weird combination of shame and suprise... this is about a very few lines in the source code.
> 
> If I try to distance myself from that: I will only get better, promised!


Anyways, glad that you narrowed down the bug 

And like someone else has already said, your honesty, quick response and bug fixes are very much appreciated!
This plugin can only get even more better.


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## richhickey (Dec 18, 2022)

I recently picked this up but can't find the documentation. Is there any?

[Edit] Just checked my junk folder and I _had_ gotten a reply to an email request about this. The answer was: Not yet.


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## TomaeusD (Dec 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> *Bug confirmation*
> 
> I have investigated this thoroughly and with a *serious amount of shame* I have to admit that there is a *bug in the plugin*, which makes it not load the second and third reverb channel data, but replicate the data from the first reverb channel.
> 
> I will do my utmost best to release an update that fixes this as soon as possible and send out an announcement by email to all users.


Please don't feel shame or embarrassment! We are grateful you designed this plugin and that you are willing to address and fix any bugs at all. This is all part of the development process, right? 😊


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## Mike Fox (Dec 18, 2022)

Really interesting findings about the mic positions!

I even did a blind A/B test with some of my audio friends, and they swear they could hear a difference as well, even though it wasn’t a major difference. I guess the only difference was coming from the round robbins of the instrument though, and that was effecting the reflections in each mic position.

And now that Peter has confirmed the bug, I’m REALLY interested to hear what the other mics truly sound like!

I appreciate the people in this thread with much better ears than I who pointed this out.

In the meantime, I’m going to schedule an appoint with my ear doctor, and then find a different profession.


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## Raphioli (Dec 18, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> And now that Peter has confirmed the bug, I’m REALLY interested to hear what the other mics truly sound like!


This ^

This is all I am interested in now.

And like @TomaeusD said, there's nothing to be a shamed of.
You listened to user feedback, went back to check and you found something.
Thats completely normal in any kind of software development imho.
There are plenty of developers out there who are very slow in terms of bug fixes after they've been reported by users.
But you're very fast in fixing things and I appreciate that.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 18, 2022)

Gabriel S. said:


> Sometimes you hear what you wanna hear instead of what's there.


I think my wife tells me this on a daily basis.


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## Geoff Grace (Dec 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I get that... and respect for bringing your observations here, much appreciated.
> 
> At this moment I am still in a weird combination of shame and suprise... this is about a very few lines in the source code.
> 
> If I try to distance myself from that: I will only get better, promised!


Regarding shame, it’s important to accept that we are all fallible human beings. (That includes us professionals, by the way.) Shame is a natural initial reaction; but I hope you will soon release that damaging emotion, because it can chip away at your health. The important thing is to acknowledge and fix the problem, and you’re already doing that.

Your product is highly regarded. This bump in the road will soon be ironed out. You’ve earned a lot of good will. I hope you can focus on that.

Best,

Geoff


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 18, 2022)

*Update available*

Registered users, please update from

samplicity.com/downloads

This fixes the bug discussed here. No other changes.

Very sorry for all the confusion, hassle... 

But, you can also see this as a subscription service, delivering a new feature to you today


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 18, 2022)

richhickey said:


> I recently picked this up but can't find the documentation. Is there any?
> 
> [Edit] Just checked my junk folder and I _had_ gotten a reply to an email request about this. The answer was: Not yet.


To everyone, sorry for any hassles with emails...

But believe me, it is VERY tricky to make the big parties (GMail, Yahoo, etc) accept your emails. The current rules for the DNS of your domain are so complicated and hard to test... (DKIM, SPF, DMARC, MX records). Getting closer, but I am afraid it will not be possible to reach 100% of the users by email, nor to reply to 100% of incoming emails. Some providers and/or users also have incorrect settings on their part...


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## tabulius (Dec 18, 2022)

I gravitated to use only Decca before, and maybe this bug was the reason. Awesome job Peter, for giving a quick fix! After I've built my new PC and installed everything, I'll put this plugin into serious use in my new orchestral template. I'll post some demos for sure.


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## oxo (Dec 18, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos
now we get a dry singnal in the choir position on the surround mic


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 18, 2022)

oxo said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos
> now we get a dry singnal in the choir position on the surround mic


Please DL again, the library file in the installers is fixed.

That was part of a test that I did not revert...


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## oxo (Dec 18, 2022)

if you ever need a professional beta tester...now you know my name.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 18, 2022)

oxo said:


> if you ever need a professional beta tester...now you know my name.


Top!

In moments of importance I always follow Murphy's law


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 18, 2022)

tabulius said:


> I gravitated to use only Decca before, and maybe this bug was the reason. Awesome job Peter, for giving a quick fix! After I've built my new PC and installed everything, I'll put this plugin into serious use in my new orchestral template. I'll post some demos for sure.


I did the same: Used Decca alone.

I thought it became “too much” with AB and Surround mics added in.

Now I know that it really did - literally! 

Didn’t suspect anything was wrong at all though.


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## oxo (Dec 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Top!
> 
> In moments of importance I always follow Murphy's law


but i can tell you the truth. the universe has put a curse on me. throughout my life i can buy whatever i want, i immediately find a bug that no one has noticed before. it's always like that. regardless of whether it is software or a technical device. i buy it, start it and immediately find an bug in the first few minutes. this is hell. ...and because of this unpleasant talent i was actually already a beta tester for a software company ...but after a year they didn't like me anymore because i found umpteen bugs in every new version the developers made. this way i delayed the release every time and jeopardized the deadline.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 18, 2022)

oxo said:


> but i can tell you the truth. the universe has put a curse on me. throughout my life i can buy whatever i want, i immediately find a bug that no one has noticed before. it's always like that. regardless of whether it is software or a technical device. i buy it, start it and immediately find an error in the first few minutes. this is hell. ...and because of this unpleasant talent i was actually already a beta tester for a software company ...but after a year they didn't like me anymore because i found umpteen bugs in every new version the developers made. this way i delayed the publication every time and jeopardized the deadline.


My ex had a similar gift, only for finding plot holes in movies and tv shows. Imagine how fun it was to watch tv with someone like that!


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## AlbertSmithers (Dec 18, 2022)

I've been messing with SM brass using this update... wow... huge difference (though FWIW I do not have the old version installed to compare). Thanks for the update.


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## dts_marin (Dec 18, 2022)

I hope the same rigorous testing (didn't) took place during the recording process.  /s

Does anyone use the plugin in Digital Performer on an M1 machine?

DP isn't widely used and I'm afraid that when I get the plugin it won't work properly. Not PER's fault of course.. MOTU does weird things and many plugins don't work correctly for some reason.


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## ansthenia (Dec 18, 2022)

This bug actually makes me very happy to read about. I already thought this reverb sounded amazing, but it was bugged and now with the fix it should sound even better!? AWESOME


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## Tom Henare (Dec 18, 2022)

I've been loving the plugin! I have a question in regards to cpu though. If I turn the volume all the way down (or mute) one of the mic positions, does that turn it off and save cpu? Or does it still process in the background but is just inaudible? Cheers


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## oxo (Dec 18, 2022)

Tom Henare said:


> I've been loving the plugin! I have a question in regards to cpu though. If I turn the volume all the way down (or mute) one of the mic positions, does that turn it off and save cpu? Or does it still process in the background but is just inaudible? Cheers


set tail at zero.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 18, 2022)

Tom Henare said:


> I've been loving the plugin! I have a question in regards to cpu though. If I turn the volume all the way down (or mute) one of the mic positions, does that turn it off and save cpu? Or does it still process in the background but is just inaudible? Cheers


If you set a tail to zero, after two seconds there will be no more processing for it. Since a tail takes up most of the processing, that reduces the processing for that channel to a few percent.

In a recent change this pattern has been applied to the reverb channels as well, and to the entire plugin.

So if you set a reverb channel to zero dB, it will also stop processing, again, after two seconds.

This does not apply to Mute and Solo, since you want to be able to toggle between "with" and "without reverb" signal (so it has to keep running).

Be aware that this is (indeed) a CPU intensive plugin.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Be aware that this is (indeed) a CPU intensive plugin.


I have tried the latest version in Cubase again and even a single instance causes CPU to spike a huge amount (50% on the meter). No other reverb I own does this so I think something is still wrong with Berlin Studio here. I’m on Intel Mac.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 18, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I have tried the latest version in Cubase again and even a single instance causes CPU to spike a huge amount (50% on the meter). No other reverb I own does this so I think something is still wrong with Berlin Studio here. I’m on Intel Mac.


I hope you will not take offense at this:

Please understand that reports like this are not going to help in any way with addressing your situation.

I am not asking for answers here in this thread, but information about a number of the following points is typically needed at least:

What is the type, speed and number of cores of your Intel processor?
Which OS version do you use?
How many plugins are loaded and active in the Cubase project that lead to this observation?
Which meter did you look at? My Cubase installations do not have a CPU meter, but a Real-time meter and an Asio guard meter. Or is this from a meter in MacOS?
What audio interface do you use?
What are the buffer settings for your audio interface?
What sample rate are your audio interface and Cubase using?

These points are all related to the audio processing power that is available to the plugin. Without knowing anything about them, your report cannot help me improving the plugin.

This is a convolution-based plugin, doing millions of calculations per second. You should compare it with other convolution reverbs, like MIR, Seventh Heaven, etc., not with reverb plugins in general, which are typically algorithmic and a lot easier with their CPU requirements.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I hope you will not take offense at this:
> 
> Please understand that reports like this are not going to help in any way with addressing your situation.
> 
> ...


I can email you if that’s preferred. I was comparing to Seventh Heaven Pro.


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## Tom Henare (Dec 18, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> If you set a tail to zero, after two seconds there will be no more processing for it. Since a tail takes up most of the processing, that reduces the processing for that channel to a few percent.
> 
> In a recent change this pattern has been applied to the reverb channels as well, and to the entire plugin.
> 
> ...


Ok, cool. Thanks for the response. Could it be possible to implement a feature that disables a mic position entirely to help soften the cpu load? It might benefit a lot of users if for some tracks they're only needing 1 or 2 of the mic positions. Being able to copy and paste eq settings is also something that could help with workflow. 

Really appreciate what you're doing! An amazing plugin. It's rare a single plugin has such an impact in my workflow!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 19, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I can email you if that’s preferred. I was comparing to Seventh Heaven Pro.


If you want to take the time, thanks in advance


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 19, 2022)

Tom Henare said:


> Ok, cool. Thanks for the response. Could it be possible to implement a feature that disables a mic position entirely to help soften the cpu load? It might benefit a lot of users if for some tracks they're only needing 1 or 2 of the mic positions. Being able to copy and paste eq settings is also something that could help with workflow.
> 
> Really appreciate what you're doing! An amazing plugin. It's rare a single plugin has such an impact in my workflow!


Just pull the fader for a reverb channel to zero - that was in my explanation as well  CPU will drop with 1/3 after 2 seconds.

Copy/paste has been mentioned before, but exchanging information between instances is not trivial to implement...

There is an often overlooked feature in the upper right corner: you can save the state of all settings to a file and load it in another instance.

Maybe I can enhance this by writing to a hidden, shared file, that is accessible by all instances (and show it as Copy/Paste). Or the clipboard - thanks for the inspiration


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## Tom Henare (Dec 19, 2022)

Oh, I see. Sorry, I think I misunderstood your previous advice. I thought the CPU would only drop after 2 seconds of no more source audio being fed into the plugin, but am I correct in saying that the CPU will drop after 2 seconds even when source audio is continuing to be input into Berlin Studio?

Also, just to clarify, I was meaning to have a copy and paste EQ feature between the different mic positions of the same instance. Eg. there's a problem frequency that you need cut on all mic positions of the same instance, so copy and pasting the eq between them could save time. Just an idea!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 19, 2022)

Tom Henare said:


> Oh, I see. Sorry, I think I misunderstood your previous advice. I thought the CPU would only drop after 2 seconds of no more source audio being fed into the plugin, but am I correct in saying that the CPU will drop after 2 seconds even when source audio is continuing to be input into Berlin Studio?
> 
> Also, just to clarify, I was meaning to have a copy and paste EQ feature between the different mic positions of the same instance. Eg. there's a problem frequency that you need cut on all mic positions of the same instance, so copy and pasting the eq between them could save time. Just an idea!


The two seconds is for letting reverb tails ring out. Only then can the plugin stop processing for a reverb channel.

So put a channel at zero dB and keep it there. When you shut off input, there can still be up to two seconds of reverb signal that wants to get out 

Copy-paste between channels... mmm - I was actually thinking of adding EQ to the input and output channels as well. Would that help you?

I rather add more general functionality to enable specific use cases than try to squeeze in channel specific functionality (from a UX/UI perspective).


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 19, 2022)

Thanks for the ultra quick fix, Peter


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## Tom Henare (Dec 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> The two seconds is for letting reverb tails ring out. Only then can the plugin stop processing for a reverb channel.
> 
> So put a channel at zero dB and keep it there. When you shut off input, there can still be up to two seconds of reverb signal that wants to get out
> 
> ...


Ok, I understand. I guess the CPU saver I had in mind was to shut off the processing of a mic position completely to save CPU while in use. I understand if this kind of thing is easier said than done, all of this plugin programming knowledge is far beyond me!

The way I have been using the plugin has been through sends, so I am able to EQ the input and output as is, but yes, I imagine this could be beneficial for other users that use it differently to myself.

For me I'm honestly really impressed with the way it is now! The EQ copy/paste between mic positions would just marginally improve workflow, and the disengaging a mic to save CPU would prove quite valuable to those that are fighting for CPU availability. It's pretty perfect otherwise. I can't think of anything else to add.

Thanks for engaging with us users by the way!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 19, 2022)

Tom Henare said:


> Ok, I understand. I guess the CPU saver I had in mind was to shut off the processing of a mic position completely to save CPU while in use. I understand if this kind of thing is easier said than done, all of this plugin programming knowledge is far beyond me!
> 
> The way I have been using the plugin has been through sends, so I am able to EQ the input and output as is, but yes, I imagine this could be beneficial for other users that use it differently to myself.
> 
> ...


Thank you too!

I really like to let suggestions like yours sink in and trigger new ideas for additional features or improvements.

The "CPU saving" I recently added, is useful, but still quite "hidden". It can be presented so much easier: with an on/off button for each channel and when off "greying out" the channel in the user interface (= designer-lingo). For the next update!


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thank you too!
> 
> I really like to let suggestions like yours sink in and trigger new ideas for additional features or improvements.
> 
> The "CPU saving" I recently added, is useful, but still quite "hidden". It can be presented so much easier: with an on/off button for each channel and when off "greying out" the channel in the user interface (= designer-lingo). For the next update!


Hey Peter, I don't know if you've ever used Infinite Brass, but it has a cool feature where you can use pre-set mixes instead of using the faders for different mic set ups. When the pre-made mic mixes are used in Infinite Brass, the CPU usage Is much lighter. Is this something that could potentially be implemented into Berlin Studio? Hope I made sense.


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## dts_marin (Dec 19, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hey Peter, I don't know if you've ever used Infinite Brass, but it has a cool feature where you can use pre-set mixes instead of using the faders for different mic set ups. When the pre-made mic mixes are used in Infinite Brass, the CPU usage Is much lighter. Is this something that could potentially be implemented into Berlin Studio? Hope I made sense.


Yes something like the Mic Merge feature of the SINE player. Makes a lot of sense for templates that stay fixed most of the time.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 19, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hey Peter, I don't know if you've ever used Infinite Brass, but it has a cool feature where you can use pre-set mixes instead of using the faders for different mic set ups. When the pre-made mic mixes are used in Infinite Brass, the CPU usage Is much lighter. Is this something that could potentially be implemented into Berlin Studio? Hope I made sense.


Yes, that's a cool idea.

In my interpretation, it would boil down to some kind of "freezing": create one IR set that does the same as what the three channels are setup for, maybe even including EQ. It would give the same effect for 1/3 of the regular CPU usage.

Nice!


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## Trash Panda (Dec 19, 2022)

I am definitely hearing a big difference between mics now. Previously I wasn't hearing a big difference, but I also had a hard time hearing a huge difference in the OT instruments between Tree/AB/Surround, so I assumed it was just my lack of well-trained ears.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 19, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I am definitely hearing a big difference between mics now. Previously I wasn't hearing a big difference, but I also had a hard time hearing a huge difference in the OT instruments between Tree/AB/Surround, so I assumed it was just my lack of well-trained ears.


So you have not yet found out that you are now listening to 3x the AB mics?



(stress-relieve reaction  )


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## shawnsingh (Dec 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Yes, that's a cool idea.
> 
> In my interpretation, it would boil down to some kind of "freezing": create one IR set that does the same as what the three channels are setup for, maybe even including EQ. It would give the same effect for 1/3 of the regular CPU usage.
> 
> Nice!


Maybe this is completely wrong, since I haven't fully learned overlap-add / STFT implementation of convolution yet. But from the half knowledge I have, I suspect this "freezing" could be done in a seamless way by pre-multiplying the STFT blocks together before multiplying to the signal, at which point those pre-multiplied blocks can just be saved unless the user tweaked some parameters that would require recomputing it on the next block. If it does work that way, then it doesn't even have to be a feature that's visible to the user, it's just automatically getting the savings as long as the user is not interacting with the UI.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 19, 2022)

shawnsingh said:


> Maybe this is completely wrong, since I haven't fully learned overlap-add / STFT implementation of convolution yet. But from the half knowledge I have, I suspect this "freezing" could be done in a seamless way by pre-multiplying the STFT blocks together before multiplying to the signal, at which point those pre-multiplied blocks can just be saved unless the user tweaked some parameters that would require recomputing it on the next block. If it does work that way, then it doesn't even have to be a feature that's visible to the user, it's just automatically getting the savings as long as the user is not interacting with the UI.


Thanks for these thoughts 

I agree it should not be very difficult to create a single IR set that captures the mix of the three IR sets.

Lots of good ideas, but for me the task to consider what are "essential", "pretty-cool" and "nice-to-have" features, in relation to their development costs (the Moscow-model).


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## Breaker (Dec 19, 2022)

Something strange is going on with those IR's or my ears. The ER portions of the different mic positions sound still very similar to me, except that hard panned signals sound very wide on wide stage positions with the Surround mics - which is something that I would except from the Decca Tree or AB.

The tail portions also sound very similar to each other, Surrounds are little bit boomier than the other mics.

The plug-in still actually sounds great. I'm just having hard time with the mic positions as they don't seem to behave like I'm expecting them to.


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## AlbertSmithers (Dec 19, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Copy-paste between channels... mmm - I was actually thinking of adding EQ to the input and output channels as well. Would that help you?


EQ to input and output would be awesome! Esp for sample modeling stuff.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 19, 2022)

Breaker said:


> Something strange is going on with those IR's or my ears. The ER portions of the different mic positions sound still very similar to me, except that hard panned signals sound very wide on wide stage positions with the Surround mics - which is something that I would except from the Decca Tree or AB.
> 
> The tail portions also sound very similar to each other, Surrounds are little bit boomier than the other mics.
> 
> The plug-in still actually sounds great. I'm just having hard time with the mic positions as they don't seem to behave like I'm expecting them to.


Make sure you're on the latest version. There was a bug in prior releases.


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## Breaker (Dec 19, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Make sure you're on the latest version. There was a bug in prior releases.


I'm on 1.1.0, hence "sound still very similar".


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 19, 2022)

Breaker said:


> Something strange is going on with those IR's or my ears. The ER portions of the different mic positions sound still very similar to me, except that hard panned signals sound very wide on wide stage positions with the Surround mics - which is something that I would except from the Decca Tree or AB.
> 
> The tail portions also sound very similar to each other, Surrounds are little bit boomier than the other mics.
> 
> The plug-in still actually sounds great. I'm just having hard time with the mic positions as they don't seem to behave like I'm expecting them to.


The three quad IRs of a preset/position are loaded into three "engine" objects and only inside them split into ER and tail parts. No chance of them getting mixed up. This is pretty vertical by design, three of these engines are used in Berlin Studio and one in my Gemini plugin(s).

A Decca tree will only give a wide sound (imho) if you turn off its the center mic. The C mic is there to prevent a too wide sound and keep the L-R spread quite foused - but I'm open to other interpretations.

I think the similarity in the tails is determined by them coming from the same room  - and being recorded at the same moment.
Compare this with multi-mic sampled instruments, also recorded at the same moment. I was at Teldex on an OT library recording day and used the same recording setup as for the library.
A number of my IRs have been selected by OT and embedded in solo instrument products.


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## oxo (Dec 19, 2022)

a small wish for the next update:
previously the shortcut alt+click resets the controller to -6 db
additionally, it would be useful if ctrl+click set the slider to 0 db


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 19, 2022)

oxo said:


> a small wish for the next update:
> previously the shortcut alt+click resets the controller to -6 db
> additionally, it would be useful if ctrl+click set the slider to 0 db


I was not aware of the Alt-click option, apparently a feature from the C++ library that I use  - which is otherwise quite primitive with its GUI features.

This is on Windows? I put it on a list to find any keyboard/mouse mini-functions that are available and put them in the draft documentation.

I use double-click to reset a control to its default - are you aware of that? Especially handy when you have changed tail level or size and want to reset it.

Thanks


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## oxo (Dec 19, 2022)

yes, win 10. and yes, double click works too. thanks for the hint.


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## oxo (Dec 19, 2022)

another idea for keyboard shortcuts:
shift+ click hold = moves the three controls of the microphones up and down simultaneously in their current position in relation to each other.
so you could quickly and easily regulate "wet" if the source should remain constant.


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## Drumdude2112 (Dec 19, 2022)

Getting crazy CPU Spikes in studio one (M1 Mac) rendering it unusable i’m afraid 😞.


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## Kevperry777 (Dec 19, 2022)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Getting crazy CPU Spikes in studio one (M1 Mac) rendering it unusable i’m afraid 😞.


I’m on an M1 Pro on Cubase having glitches with just one instance. I’ll contact support tomorrow.


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## constaneum (Dec 19, 2022)

Curious. Any plan to add "outrigger" mic in the near future ? I've noticed OT libraries lately tend to include this mic option.


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## Adagio Learner (Dec 19, 2022)

Hi - I’m very happy with Berlin Studio - I’m glad I bought it today, I found the one key to my success on a MacBook Pro with M1 Silicon is to make sure I increase my buffer size significantly. Once I did this, I eliminated all pops, crackles and echos. I am running Berlin Studio in Logic Pro X (10.7.6) and Dorico (4.3.11) without Rosetta under Ventura 13.0. In Logic and Dorico I usually kept my buffer size at 64KB which worked well until today. Berlin Studio broke the audio until I upped the buffer size to 1024KB. Now the sound is as smooth as butter. In Dorico I have Berlin Studio on 23 instrument channels. Monitoring CPU over a 20 minute orchestral movement, I never saw it go over 55%, and this was during those moments when almost every instrument was playing. Usually the CPU was around 25% - 35%. I have about 60 other plugins running on my sample libraries at the same time in this piece. I’ll probably remove some before I am finished.


So I’m here to say I have had a glorious Day 1 with Berlin Studio, and to remind everyone to check and perhaps adjust your buffer settings if you are using an Apple machine.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

Adagio Learner said:


> Hi - I’m very happy with Berlin Studio - I’m glad I bought it today, I found the one key to my success on a MacBook Pro with M1 Silicon is to make sure I increase my buffer size significantly. Once I did this, I eliminated all pops, crackles and echos. I am running Berlin Studio in Logic Pro X (10.7.6) and Dorico (4.3.11) without Rosetta under Ventura 13.0. In Logic and Dorico I usually kept my buffer size at 64KB which worked well until today. Berlin Studio broke the audio until I upped the buffer size to 1024KB. Now the sound is as smooth as butter. In Dorico I have Berlin Studio on 23 instrument channels. Monitoring CPU over a 20 minute orchestral movement, I never saw it go over 55%, and this was during those moments when almost every instrument was playing. Usually the CPU was around 25% - 35%. I have about 60 other plugins running on my sample libraries at the same time in this piece. I’ll probably remove some before I am finished.
> 
> 
> So I’m here to say I have had a glorious Day 1 with Berlin Studio, and to remind everyone to check and perhaps adjust your buffer settings if you are using an Apple machine.


Thank you very much, also for sharing this tip.

Other Logic+M1 users: make sure to experiment with the "Process Buffer Range" setting (which is different from the IO Buffer size). Setting it to Large can make a big difference.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

constaneum said:


> Curious. Any plan to add "outrigger" mic in the near future ? I've noticed OT libraries lately tend to include this mic option.


I would have to organize a new session and re-do all the recordings, processing/editing, etc., otherwise it would not be possible to have consistency within all the mic sets. This is not something that can simply be "added".
I'm afraid this is not going to happen on short term. This is of course surely on the checklist for other venues.


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## Garlu (Dec 20, 2022)

Amazing job, Peter! 

Any plans to port the plugin into Protools' format? So we don't have to use a wrapper to open it as AAX? 

It sounds amazing!!! Thanks a lot!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

Garlu said:


> Amazing job, Peter!
> 
> Any plans to port the plugin into Protools' format? So we don't have to use a wrapper to open it as AAX?
> 
> It sounds amazing!!! Thanks a lot!


Hi dear Vanessa!

Thanks so much. The AAX version will be part of the next update, which is focused on iLok-integration. I hope to introduce that in January.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Getting crazy CPU Spikes in studio one (M1 Mac) rendering it unusable i’m afraid 😞.


Please consider to supply some more information at least.

https://samplicity.com/support/berlin-studio-uses-a-lot-of-cpu-on-my-system/


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

Kevperry777 said:


> I’m on an M1 Pro on Cubase having glitches with just one instance. I’ll contact support tomorrow.


Please consider to supply some more information at least.

https://samplicity.com/support/berlin-studio-uses-a-lot-of-cpu-on-my-system/


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## NeonMediaKJT (Dec 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thank you very much, also for sharing this tip.
> 
> Other Logic+M1 users: make sure to experiment with the "Process Buffer Range" setting (which is different from the IO Buffer size). Setting it to Large can make a big difference.


It honestly only seems to spike a lot when I have record enable. In playback it’s fine


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> It honestly only seems to spike a lot when I have record enable. In playback it’s fine


My take is that the host sets other priorities for recording.


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## shawnsingh (Dec 20, 2022)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> It honestly only seems to spike a lot when I have record enable. In playback it’s fine


I think many DAWs these days have a feature where they use a lower buffer size for selected tracks (record enable perhaps) for real-time feedback purposes, while keeping other non-interactive playback tracks on a larger buffer for cpu efficiency purposes. So it might make sense that processing spikes on processing-heavy tracks when they're selected.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

shawnsingh said:


> I think many DAWs these days have a feature where they use a lower buffer size for selected tracks (record enable perhaps) for real-time feedback purposes, while keeping other non-interactive playback tracks on a larger buffer for cpu efficiency purposes. So it might make sense that processing spikes on processing-heavy tracks when they're selected.


For plugins there is only one buffer size important, which is reported by the host to the plugin: the audio interface's driver "block". It's size determines the latency.

Plugins know about its size, but during processing they typically receive smaller blocks, between 1 sample and the size of this driver buffer. This is related to automation timing and spreading processing resources.

Maybe there are other, larger buffers involved somewhere in the host, but plugins only know about this maximum block size from the audio driver. Otherwise it would be totally impossible for plugin vendors to make buffer size recommendations.


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## wunderflo (Dec 20, 2022)

oxo said:


> another idea for keyboard shortcuts:
> shift+ click hold = moves the three controls of the microphones up and down simultaneously in their current position in relation to each other.
> so you could quickly and easily regulate "wet" if the source should remain constant.


+1, great idea!

Btw, I'm not too excited about EQ strips on the input/output. We all have amazing EQs and it's really easy to add one before or after the plugin to eq the sum. Imo, this would only unnecessarily bloat the interface.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 20, 2022)

wunderflo said:


> +1, great idea!
> 
> Btw, I'm not too excited about EQ strips on the input/output. We all have amazing EQs and it's really easy to add one before or after the plugin to eq the sum. Imo, this would only unnecessarily bloat the interface.


I am glad you are not Peter then, as this is a big selling feature for me. 

Having EQ controls over individual microphones is extremely helpful in sculpting the sound since every library has different frequencies that interact in different ways with each mic perspective. 

The alternative would be loading up an instance of the plugin for each virtual microphone to EQ them independently.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

I think it will not bloat the user interface, you only get two EQ curve lines extra, two green buttons (if they remain like that) and you can already switch off the live spectrum bars. It will probably only make the UI more predictable and consistent.

The filter types that I use now are "minimum phase" / "analog modelled" (= textbook standard, don't let these terms impress you), in 64 bits. I want to experiment with linear phase (this term IS cooler) as well, in a few months. Just because that interests me  In that case it may be handy to have them in the input and output channels as well.


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## Raphioli (Dec 20, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I am glad you are not Peter then, as this is a big selling feature for me.
> 
> Having EQ controls over individual microphones is extremely helpful in sculpting the sound since every library has different frequencies that interact in different ways with each mic perspective.
> 
> The alternative would be loading up an instance of the plugin for each virtual microphone to EQ them independently.


Completely agree. 

I don't meant to put any words into Daniel James mouth, but I think he also mentioned that having an EQ on each channel was very good. Which I agree with.


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## wunderflo (Dec 20, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I am glad you are not Peter then, as this is a big selling feature for me.
> 
> Having EQ controls over individual microphones is extremely helpful in sculpting the sound since every library has different frequencies that interact in different ways with each mic perspective.
> 
> The alternative would be loading up an instance of the plugin for each virtual microphone to EQ them independently.


no, are you able to read? I was talking about EQs on the input/output. The EQs on the individual mic channels are very handy, of course.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

We are not going to vote on this, ok? Do you agree?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> If you want to take the time, thanks in advance


I have emailed you the requested info - hope it helps with debugging.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 20, 2022)

wunderflo said:


> no, are you able to read? I was talking about EQs on the input/output. The EQs on the individual mic channels are very handy, of course.


Apologies. I was trying to read my phone through a Big Mac wrapper someone threw in the dumpster I was rifling through for my morning forage. Some people just have no consideration for us large rodents.

I took your post to mean the EQs already in place, then went back and found Peter's post about adding two more. I think it's fine since those spaces are already occupied by blank versions of the EQ boxes.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I have emailed you the requested info - hope it helps with debugging.


"Debugging" implies that there are bugs in the plugin.
May I kindly return with the remark that your setup is probably not capable of running this plugin?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> "Debugging" implies that there are bugs in the plugin.
> May I kindly return with the remark that your setup is probably not capable of running this plugin?


I'm not sure you looked at my email? My setup is a top of the line iMac with a Thunderbolt interface.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I'm not sure you looked at my email? My setup is a top of the line iMac with a Thunderbolt interface.


You have just insulted me - hence my reply.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> You have just insulted me - hence my reply.


I meant absolutely no offense - sorry you took it that way. "Debugging" is just a common term I thought in software development (as somebody who is also in that industry). You are right - there may not be a bug with the plugin. There may be a "bug" in how I'm using it or my setup. Either way, I hope my information will shed some light on what is going on.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I meant absolutely no offense - sorry you took it that way. "Debugging" is just a common term I thought in software development (as somebody who is also in that industry). You are right - there may not be a bug with the plugin. There may be a "bug" in how I'm using it or my setup. Either way, I hope my information will shed some light on what is going on.


Thanks very much. I have worked in IT as well, for nearly 40 years, and for me it feels like "get the errors out of your code".
I have not yet received an email yet, btw...?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 20, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Thanks very much. I have worked in IT as well, for nearly 40 years, and for me it feels like "get the errors out of your code".
> I have not yet received an email yet, btw...?


I sent the email to [email protected] - is that the right address? Or if you prefer, I could also PM you the information here.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 20, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I sent the email to [email protected] - is that the right address? Or if you prefer, I could also PM you the information here.


Correct address, and I am just replying to other emails in it, but nothing from you yet, weird. PM is also OK.


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## Olympum (Dec 20, 2022)

I just finished a project with Berlin Studio (1.1.0) on Cubase 12, Apple M1 Pro, without any problems. I wanted to compare Berlin/Arks with spot+tree vs spot only + Berlin, and once you spend a bit of time to find the right settings, it works really well. I think I will change my template for 95% of the cases to use Berlin Studio instead of the extended OT Berlin mics (tree, AB, surround, ...). There is a bit of a difference in the bass frequencies response, but other than that, I will start saving disk and RAM from now on (I'll probably use the OT extended mics when I don't want to downmix to stereo).

FWIW once I completed the project, I also tested this on Logic Pro X 10.7.6. Same setup, same computer, same plugins, etc. But at 256 bytes buffer LPX cracks, whereas Cubase 12 is silky smooth.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 21, 2022)

Olympum said:


> I just finished a project with Berlin Studio (1.1.0) on Cubase 12, Apple M1 Pro, without any problems. I wanted to compare Berlin/Arks with spot+tree vs spot only + Berlin, and once you spend a bit of time to find the right settings, it works really well. I think I will change my template for 95% of the cases to use Berlin Studio instead of the extended OT Berlin mics (tree, AB, surround, ...). There is a bit of a difference in the bass frequencies response, but other than that, I will start saving disk and RAM from now on (I'll probably use the OT extended mics when I don't want to downmix to stereo).
> 
> FWIW once I completed the project, I also tested this on Logic Pro X 10.7.6. Same setup, same computer, same plugins, etc. But at 256 bytes buffer LPX cracks, whereas Cubase 12 is silky smooth.


Thanks very much for sharing this, cool to read about your results


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## AndyP (Dec 21, 2022)

A quick question and apologies, I haven't had time to read the entire thread unfortunately.

I am running on a Mac Studio and a MBPro M1, Monterey 12.6.2. Cubase 12 still in Rosetta 2 mode because of VSL and Spaces II.

Does this run smoothly for users with the same or similar configuration? Since the intro period lasts until February I can still wait, but I'm super curious and would want to jump on the bus.


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## Olympum (Dec 21, 2022)

AndyP said:


> I am running on a Mac Studio and a MBPro M1, Monterey 12.6.2. Cubase 12 still in Rosetta 2 mode because of VSL and Spaces II.
> 
> Does this run smoothly for users with the same or similar configuration? Since the intro period lasts until February I can still wait, but I'm super curious and would want to jump on the bus.


I run on a MBP M1 Pro 32 GB for the host DAW, on MacOS 12.6.2. and Cubase 12, also in Rosetta 2 mode (and also because of VSL), with a 256 bytes buffer, and I can have 15 Berlin Studio inserts for each section of the orchestra running without a problem, and CPU on idle is very low.


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## AndyP (Dec 21, 2022)

Olympum said:


> I run on a MBP M1 Pro 32 GB for the host DAW, on MacOS 12.6.2. and Cubase 12, also in Rosetta 2 mode (and also because of VSL), with a 256 bytes buffer, and I can have 15 Berlin Studio inserts for each section of the orchestra running without a problem, and CPU on idle is very low.


Thank you, that sounds promising!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 21, 2022)

Olympum said:


> I run on a MBP M1 Pro 32 GB for the host DAW, on MacOS 12.6.2. and Cubase 12, also in Rosetta 2 mode (and also because of VSL), with a 256 bytes buffer, and I can have 15 Berlin Studio inserts for each section of the orchestra running without a problem, and CPU on idle is very low.


@AndyP It's stuff like this that reminds me how great the Internet can be! One can ask a - let's face it! - pretty geeky question about orchestral music on a specific configuration of hardware & OS and then someone out there who has the same configuration replies with helpful info


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## AndyP (Dec 21, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> @AndyP It's stuff like this that reminds me how great the Internet can be! One can ask a - let's face it! - pretty geeky question about orchestral music on a specific configuration of hardware & OS and then someone out there who has the same configuration replies with helpful info


That's the beauty of VI-C, so many helpful users with knowledge they are willing to share. This is often very helpful and I am always grateful when someone shares their experience. 😀


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## RabornJohnson (Dec 22, 2022)

Olympum said:


> I just finished a project with Berlin Studio (1.1.0) on Cubase 12, Apple M1 Pro, without any problems. I wanted to compare Berlin/Arks with spot+tree vs spot only + Berlin, and once you spend a bit of time to find the right settings, it works really well. I think I will change my template for 95% of the cases to use Berlin Studio instead of the extended OT Berlin mics (tree, AB, surround, ...). There is a bit of a difference in the bass frequencies response, but other than that, I will start saving disk and RAM from now on (I'll probably use the OT extended mics when I don't want to downmix to stereo).
> 
> FWIW once I completed the project, I also tested this on Logic Pro X 10.7.6. Same setup, same computer, same plugins, etc. But at 256 bytes buffer LPX cracks, whereas Cubase 12 is silky smooth.


Wow! So, is it actually possible to use Berlin Studio Reverb in place of the additional mic positions in the OT libraries recorded in Teldex? Do you just load the close mics or the trees in the Arks, Berlin Strings, etc. and then use Berlin Studio Reverb to dial in the additional mic positions? The RAM and time that would save would be fantastic!


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## Olympum (Dec 22, 2022)

RabornJohnson said:


> Wow! So, is it actually possible to use Berlin Studio Reverb in place of the additional mic positions in the OT libraries recorded in Teldex? Do you just load the close mics or the trees in the Arks, Berlin Strings, etc. and then use Berlin Studio Reverb to dial in the additional mic positions? The RAM and time that would save would be fantastic!


Right, I worked with spot/close mics only. You need to play with the reverb tail for each set of mics in Berlin Studio in order to match the original mics in OT, but you can get pretty close. There is also a minor stage position shift for some instruments (strings mostly), so I slightly panned the spot mics and made them a bit narrower here and there before going into Berlin Studio.


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## RabornJohnson (Dec 22, 2022)

Olympum said:


> Right, I worked with spot/close mics only. You need to play with the reverb tail for each set of mics in Berlin Studio in order to match the original mics in OT, but you can get pretty close. There is also a minor stage position shift for some instruments (strings mostly), so I slightly panned the spot mics and made them a bit narrower here and there before going into Berlin Studio.


Wow! This sounds like it could be a fantastic way to save RAM and time for Orchestral Tools-heavy projects. I love all of the mic positions OT libraries offer in Teldex - and they sound fantastic - but the load times and RAM use are significant. Berlin Studio Reverb sounds like it could solve a big problem in that regard.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 22, 2022)

RabornJohnson said:


> Wow! So, is it actually possible to use Berlin Studio Reverb in place of the additional mic positions in the OT libraries recorded in Teldex? Do you just load the close mics or the trees in the Arks, Berlin Strings, etc. and then use Berlin Studio Reverb to dial in the additional mic positions? The RAM and time that would save would be fantastic!


Not really, because all of the mic positions in OT libraries (or just about any library for that matter) aren’t just capturing IR data (like Berlin Studio is), they’re also capturing the instruments themselves, which can’t be replaced with a reverb plugin.

That’s not to say you can’t just use the close mics in an OT library, and apply Berlin Studio to achieve awesome sounding results, but it’s definitely not the same thing as an actual instrument being recorded in a certain area of the stage with a certain mic position, which is why multiple mics are so important in any give sample library. There’s instrument data in those other mics, not just pure hall reflections.


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 22, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos 

I was playing with my new copy of Pacific Strings tonight, and I wanted to add an oboe to the mix. I grabbed BWWS oboe and threw Berlin Studio on it to try and hear it in context through all the popping. It was pretty awful at first, and then it settled down and the popping stopped. However, the core was still running at about 75%. I got busy working on other parts and left Berlin Studio on. After a long while, I suddenly noticed that the core was running at normal levels. So I added some more instances of Berlin Studio to other instruments, though slowly, one at a time. Often I was met with popping and a spiking core. But I just left them. As I played through the piece, the popping would stop, and eventually, the core would settle down.

I have seen Logic have difficulties with large templates before, and after you play through it a couple of times, it figures it out and works fine. At present, I have 5 instances of Berlin Studio running and plan to add more. My machine is running at about 25%. I'll update more later, but for now, the solution seems to be to let Logic figure it out.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 22, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos
> 
> I was playing with my new copy of Pacific Strings tonight, and I wanted to add an oboe to the mix. I grabbed BWWS oboe and threw Berlin Studio on it to try and hear it in context through all the popping. It was pretty awful at first, and then it settled down and the popping stopped. However, the core was still running at about 75%. I got busy working on other parts and left Berlin Studio on. After a long while, I suddenly noticed that the core was running at normal levels. So I added some more instances of Berlin Studio to other instruments, though slowly, one at a time. Often I was met with popping and a spiking core. But I just left them. As I played through the piece, the popping would stop, and eventually, the core would settle down.
> 
> I have seen Logic have difficulties with large templates before, and after you play through it a couple of times, it figures it out and works fine. At present, I have 5 instances of Berlin Studio running and plan to add more. My machine is running at about 25%. I'll update more later, but for now, the solution seems to be to let Logic figure it out.


I’ve experienced the same thing on Cubase on my Intel Mac.


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## Olympum (Dec 23, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Not really, because all of the mic positions in OT libraries (or just about any library for that matter) aren’t just capturing IR data (like Berlin Studio is), they’re also capturing the instruments themselves, which can’t be replaced with a reverb plugin.
> 
> That’s not to say you can’t just use the close mics in an OT library, and apply Berlin Studio to achieve awesome sounding results, but it’s definitely not the same thing as an actual instrument being recorded in a certain area of the stage with a certain mic position, which is why multiple mics are so important in any give sample library. There’s instrument data in those other mics, not just pure hall reflections.


For OT’s libraries, it would be best if SINE implemented a proper purge, ala Kontakt. Till then, Berlin Studio produces a pretty good realistic mix, and although the result is somewhat different than using OT’s tree, AB, surround mics, it’s debatable whether the additional mic information produces a better, or rather just a different result.


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## JimDiGritz (Dec 23, 2022)

Hi, I'm busy building a new template and have been trying to blend the following:

BBCSO Core
HOOPUS
Samplemodeling Strings
Infinite Brass & Wind
+ a few other libs

I don't want to take this off-topic, however Berlin Studio might solve a few issues with the above.

1. I'm blending everything with BBCSO (no reverb). I assume that this is the best option since it's already quite wet.
2. In HOOPUS I was just using a small reverb (Burbank Small Scoring Stage), however I am still a little confused as to how the Pan works in this library since all instruments have a Pan preset.
3. IW & IB I used the Mic 1 blend and the Bersa Hall.
4. Samplemodeling Strings and other very dry libraries I used an insert of Panagement to place.
5. Only a couple of OT instruments at the moment.
6. All sections have a -6 to -4Db Send to a Bus with Valhalla Room set to a pure Late Tail chamber reverb.

This works.. ish. I'm not happy with the blending but am struggling with all the moving parts.

Berlin Studio looks like it could simplify things and potentially replace Panagement, HOOPUS panning and Valhalla. Am I right?

Secondly, I've watched a couple of videos reviewing BS but am still not quite sure how the routing works. Do I need to have BS as an insert on every instrument, or do I just route stereo Audio to the plugin and it handles each input separately? Would I still need a global reverb like Valhalla?


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## JeffvR (Dec 23, 2022)

Composed a little score >  All woodwinds and some percussion is placed with Berlin Studio + Cinematic Rooms.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2022)

Olympum said:


> and although the result is somewhat different than using OT’s tree, AB, surround mics


Which is kinda the point I’m making, as an IR isn’t a direct substitute for an instrument recorded in the same space as that IR.

Is the preferred end result debatable? Sure. We all have our preferences.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

JeffvR said:


> Composed a little score >  All woodwinds and some percussion is placed with Berlin Studio + Cinematic Rooms.



Gaaf man! Wow


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Which is kinda the point I’m making, as an IR isn’t a direct substitute for an instrument recorded in the same space as that IR.
> 
> Is the preferred end result debatable? Sure. We all have our preferences.


You're mixing up acoustics and instruments here, lol.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Not really, because all of the mic positions in OT libraries (or just about any library for that matter) aren’t just capturing IR data (like Berlin Studio is), they’re also capturing the instruments themselves, which can’t be replaced with a reverb plugin.


Really confused... what are "IR data"? 

I have the impression you don't know what convolution is.
OT have recorded "instruments"? No, they have recorded sounds emitted by instruments.
I have done the same in the Teldex Studio. Recorded sounds.

Capturing instruments: please explain


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> ...but it’s definitely not the same thing as an actual instrument being recorded in a certain area of the stage with a certain mic position...


I fully disagree with you. This is a field of science that you are apparently not familiar with.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 23, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Really confused... what are "IR data"?
> 
> I have the impression you don't know what convolution is.
> OT have recorded "instruments"? No, they have recorded sounds emitted by instruments.
> ...


I think he's referring to the differences in what gets picked up by mics of varying levels. Timbral changes and subtle details.

For instance, a close mic on a brass instrument could potentially pick up the buzzing of the player's lips (aka "hearing the spit") whereas you would not hear that much if at all from the tree, AB and definitely not the surround mics. A close mic on a woodwind instrument can distinctly pick up the key clicks, but you wouldn't expect to hear that in a surround mic.

Those kind of things.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> I think he's referring to the differences in what gets picked up by mics of varying levels. Timbral changes and subtle details.
> 
> For instance, a close mic on a brass instrument could potentially pick up the buzzing of the player's lips (aka "hearing the spit") whereas you would not hear that much if at all from the tree, AB and definitely not the surround mics. A close mic on a woodwind instrument can distinctly pick up the key clicks, but you wouldn't expect to hear that in a surround mic.
> 
> Those kind of things.


I expect worse confusions... "real instruments" being recorded instead of "just recording IR data"


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## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos 

I’m simply saying that there are audible differences the OT mics picked up when they recorded something like Berlin Strings that’s absent from Berlin Studio. 

There is quite a bit of human expression in those strings that effects the reflections of Teldex, and that is the information that is naturally absent from Berlin Studio. 

Different sources can effect the acoustics of any given space, especially when you consider the amount of human expression found in something like strings. 

Even those subtle details a human makes when playing an instrument can be heard in hall reflections, and again, those details that were captured during the recordings of Berlin Strings are not found in Berlin Studio. 

And that’s why I don’t believe that just using the close mics in Berlin, then switching on the other mics in Berlin Studio is the exact same thing as using all the mics in Berlin Strings. 

@Trash Panda probably explained it better than I did, but what he said is basically what I’m getting at.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

You are really mixing terms from different domains, like apples and oranges.
Now it is suddenly human expression, in a previous comment you used the term "capturing instruments".

Do you think that a microphone or a Pro Tools rig for one moment "minds" if it is recording an instrument or any other signal?

Do you really believe that human expressions change acoustics?

You are mixing terms from human perception and physics as you like and as if they come from a single domain. That makes no sense.

Please understand my viewpoint:

I really don't care if you do not like the sound of my plugin,
but it annoys me when you try to provide non-valid arguments and strange reasoning for that.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> You are really mixing terms from different domains, like apples and oranges.
> Now it is suddenly human expression, in a previous comment you used the term "capturing instruments".
> 
> Do you think that a microphone for one moment "minds" if he is recording an instrument or another signal?
> ...


No, it’s not “suddenly” human expression, because that’s a part a part of “capturing instruments”. You really can’t have one without the other. I thought that was a given.

And yes, I do believe human expression can impact the acoustics of a room, because dynamics can be heard in reflections.

To really dumb it down, go stand in the middle of a large hall and clap twice with the same _attempted_ force. Each of those claps are going to reverberate slightly different, because you aren’t a machine, and there were minor differences in the force and of the position of your hands. Dynamics and positioning, my friend, effect those reflections.

And no, a microphone doesn’t care what it’s recording, but a microphone will pick up the differences in reflections that pertain to the signal.

In other words, if you sound source a gun shot, the reverb will sound a hell of a lot different in the same room that you sound sourced a violin.


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## tabulius (Dec 23, 2022)

By the way, are there any film scores or other symphonic recordings from Teldex that I could take a listen? I think having some references might help getting the mix right.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 23, 2022)

tabulius said:


> By the way, are there any film scores or other symphonic recordings from Teldex that I could take a listen? I think having some references might help getting the mix right.


They list some examples of both on http://www.teldexstudio.de/ (click Projects in the menu)


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## Johnny (Dec 23, 2022)

If it didn't matter at all, why would some devs go out of their way to capture convos generated using impulse responses from the actual instrument that the reverb was specifically designed for? Why would one decide on coloring their dry signal with a blanket of simulated room reflections that don't make sense for the instrument? Room/wall/modes can be exaggerated on the basic theory of Helmholtz resonator principles; you drive a dump truck beside a room or hall, and want to use the dump truck as your impulse response to exaggerate and capture room tails/wall reflections for RT60 measurements? It's surely going to sound different than reverb designed specifically for a flugel horn sitting in the same room. I guess that's why we have Quantum Spaces? This calls for a shoot out! Let's post dry signals of an instrument or two, and also post the recorded mic positions in combination and see if we can simulate the sense of: depth, wall reflections and space that was capture within the original recording sessions Have no fear, I come in peace  I am generally interested in the subject matter being discussed


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

tabulius said:


> By the way, are there any film scores or other symphonic recordings from Teldex that I could take a listen? I think having some references might help getting the mix right.


I'm sorry I can't help with this, I'm not associated with the Teldex company, I have no connections for such information.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 23, 2022)

Johnny said:


> If it didn't matter at all, why would some devs go out of their way to capture convos generated using impulse responses from the actual instrument that the reverb was specifically designed for? Why would one decide on coloring their dry signal with a blanket of simulated room reflections that don't make sense for the instrument? Room/wall/modes can be exaggerated on the basic theory of Helmholtz resonator principles; you drive a dump truck beside a room or hall, and want to use the dump truck as your impulse response to exaggerate and capture room tails/wall reflections for RT60 measurements? It's surely going to sound different than reverb designed specifically for a flugel horn sitting in the same room. I guess that's why we have Quantum Spaces? This calls for a shoot out! Let's post dry signals of an instrument or two, and also post the recorded mic positions in combination and see if we can simulate the sense of: depth, wall reflections and space that was capture within the original recording sessions Have no fear, I come in peace  I am generally interested in the subject matter being discussed


Peter can answer for himself of course, but note that Berlin Studio comes with different IRs tailormade for specific instruments of the orchestra.

So it's not using one set of general purpose IRs for everything, as in the dump truck example 

Edit:
For a correct explanation, see Peter's reply below.


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## JimDiGritz (Dec 23, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Hi, I'm busy building a new template and have been trying to blend the following:
> 
> BBCSO Core
> HOOPUS
> ...


Apologies for the bump, just not sure if anyone saw my post above since it seemed to bet buried at the bottom of page 38 during a heated debate!!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

The preset names refer to locations/positions in the studio (hence also the "floor layout"). The IRs represent the signals from such positions to the microphones, including all the reflections and comb-filtering (reflection = filter) picked up and the "tail" of the reverberation.

I have never claimed that the IRs have anything to do with the typical sounds of instruments, apart from their typical directivity (French Horns backward, Trombones forward, etc.).


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## Johnny (Dec 23, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Peter can answer for himself of course, but note that Berlin Studio comes with different IRs tailormade for specific instruments of the orchestra.
> 
> So it's not using one set of general purpose IRs for everything, as in the dump truck example


Fantastic! I am very curious to try it out. Thank you


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Apologies for the bump, just not sure if anyone saw my post above since it seemed to bet buried at the bottom of page 38 during a heated debate!!


When I used the IRs years ago in my Cubase setup, I used them in send/aux channels for instrument groups. 

I also experimented with smaller groups (say Flutes) with only early reflections, but that was too much work, too detailed, with general purpose convolvers like REVerence.

If you use them in aux channels, make sure to pull the Source channel to zero.

But nothing wrong to use it in a few channels as an insert effect.


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## JimDiGritz (Dec 23, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> When I used the IRs years ago in my Cubase setup, I used them in send/aux channels for instrument groups.
> 
> I also experimented with smaller groups (say Flutes) with only early reflections, but that was too much work, too detailed, with general purpose convolvers like REVerence.
> 
> ...


Thanks, so Berlin Studio can accept multiple Inputs and position them in the relevant sections? Eg I can route the Oboe to the single instance of Berlin, place it in the correct spatial location - and then repeat with each instrument?

Is there a limit to the number of Inputs/Instruments that a single instance of Berlin can route?

Thanks


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Thanks, so Berlin Studio can accept multiple Inputs and position them in the relevant sections? Eg I can route the Oboe to the single instance of Berlin, place it in the correct spatial location - and then repeat with each instrument?
> 
> Is there a limit to the number of Inputs/Instruments that a single instance of Berlin can route?
> 
> Thanks


It is a stereo-in, stereo-out plugin. You have to setup the routing in your mixer, like I mentioned with "group channels". So the Oboe and other woodwinds can have a Send to the Woodwinds aux channel, where an instance of Berlin Studio with that preset is loaded.


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## JimDiGritz (Dec 23, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> It is a stereo-in, stereo-out plugin. You have to setup the routing in your mixer, like I mentioned with "group channels". So the Oboe and other woodwinds can have a Send to the Woodwinds aux channel, where an instance of Berlin Studio with that preset is loaded.


Ah, okay!

My mistake! I thought your approach with Berlin was along the lines of Virtual Sound Stage. Sadly that plugin seems to have been abandoned, but the demo made sense - one instance of VSS with each instrument routed in to be placed in the virtual space!

Apologies, I misunderstood how Berlin worked!

I guess I'm trying to avoid having 100's of individual instances of reverb to tweak.. plus not sure how that would affect performance.

Thanks anyway Peter!


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## Trash Panda (Dec 23, 2022)

@Peter Emanuel Roos sorry if this was asked previously. Do the % controls for ER and LRs involve time stretching/compressing or are these volume adjustments of each part of the IR?

For example, if I turn down the LRs to 50% am I compressing the LR length by 50% or turning down the LR volume by 50%?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Ah, okay!
> 
> My mistake! I thought your approach with Berlin was along the lines of Virtual Sound Stage. Sadly that plugin seems to have been abandoned, but the demo made sense - one instance of VSS with each instrument routed in to be placed in the virtual space!
> 
> ...


Hehe, you should not think about so many instances! 
But if you only use the early reflections for "positioning", it can be possible


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> @Peter Emanuel Roos sorry if this was asked previously. Do the % controls for ER and LRs involve time stretching/compressing or are these volume adjustments of each part of the IR?
> 
> For example, if I turn down the LRs to 50% am I compressing the LR length by 50% or turning down the LR volume by 50%?


The ERs and Tail knobs are for volume/level. The Size knob does stretching.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 23, 2022)

tabulius said:


> By the way, are there any film scores or other symphonic recordings from Teldex that I could take a listen? I think having some references might help getting the mix right.


I just see this presented to me by Youtube as I am randomly playing some music:



With an engineer looking at a virtual mixer on top of... a real mixer!


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## Mike Fox (Dec 23, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I really don't care if you do not like the sound of my plugin,
> but it annoys me when you try to provide non-valid arguments and strange reasoning for that.


Just saw this last part.

Unfortunately, you’re putting words in my mouth and have completely misunderstood my point.

For starters, not once did I say anything about not liking your plugin. In fact, I liked it so much that I was going to review it (did you forget already?)

Secondly, I liked the plugin so much that earlier in this thread I told everyone to buy it, which is something I rarely ever do.

And finally, you can disagree with me all you want, and believe that the sound source, human expression from instrument recordings, or dynamics don’t influence the reflections of any given space, or that using just the close mic from Berlin Strings, and then applying the other mics from Berlin Studio is the EXACT same thing as engaging all the mics from Berlin Strings. Free free to believe all that, that’s your prerogative.

It’s just really sad to see how defensive and condescending you got for no real reason. Again, not once did I criticize or say anything negative about your plugin (quite the opposite), but for whatever reason you came out swinging.

But hey, this is your commercial announcement thread, so I’ll back off and let you have the final word.

Best of luck with Berlin Studio, it’s one hell of a convolution reverb plugin, and my review had nothing but praise for it.

I’m out.


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## robgb (Dec 23, 2022)

Was my question about this plugin answered? If so, I can't find the answer. I'm curious to know HOW this plugin is supposed to be used. As a reverb send buss? And, if so, can you create a send for each of the microphones separately?

And if not, how much CPU/memory does it draw if it's meant to be used directly on a track? What would happen if I had fifty instrument tracks with this plugin on each track?


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## JimDiGritz (Dec 23, 2022)

robgb said:


> Was my question about this plugin answered? If so, I can't find the answer. I'm curious to know HOW this plugin is supposed to be used. As a reverb send buss? And, if so, can you create a send for each of the microphones separately?
> 
> And if not, how much CPU/memory does it draw if it's meant to be used directly on a track? What would happen if I had fifty instrument tracks with this plugin on each track?


This was my question too. Watching the various review videos it looks like a convolution reverb that you need to load on every instrument track.

My template has 230+ tracks so not sure how my PC would handle that much convolution processing....


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## robgb (Dec 23, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> This was my question too. Watching the various review videos it looks like a convolution reverb that you need to load on every instrument track.
> 
> My template has 230+ tracks so not sure how my PC would handle that much convolution processing....


Well, if that's the case, why not just use something like Snapheap and load four convolution instances with mic positions?


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## wunderflo (Dec 23, 2022)

who doesn't know this moment when walls start to cry reacting to an emotional viola performance... ah no, that's just a water damage. 

Seriously, afaik (which admittedly isn't much), the only valid argument that could be made regarding the "human factor in room reflections" is that players listen to the room reflections while playing and this has an impact on their performances (as well as being in that space in general). Obviously, no reverb can emulate that. Also, other players and instruments in that room during a recording session might change the room acoustics (no idea what was in the room while the IRs were recorded).

However, when applying convolution reverb to the close mic recordings of performances that have been created in the same or a similar space, it's also not necessary to emulate the players' reactions to this room - as those have already been captured in the recorded performances. You don't lose any human touch by doing so.

Of course, adding IRs to recorded close mic signals won't result in an _exact _copy of the room mic signal of that session. a) the IRs haven't been recorded at the same time. b) the room mic captured the actual performance - not a close mic recording of this performance (through a mic with certain characteristics, positioned in a certain way and with a bit of distance to the sound source). This has nothing to do with emotions or human expression, though. I also wouldn't expect this to make a too significant difference.

In a way, one could argue that adding spatial information to dry samples after the fact (virtually, in the box) gets you closer to "reality" than playing with samples that already contain this room information. Simply because you are now the player who can react to the (virtual) room sound - that is created live in real time while you are playing -, which might influence your performance. Also, this way the spatial stuff (sorry for my laymen terminology) is added to the samples after they've been edited, sometimes stretched and stitched back together (legato), which will likely lead to better results in terms of flexibility and avoiding unrealistic sounding artifacts.

Does this make any sense? I'm honestly not sure.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 23, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> This was my question too. Watching the various review videos it looks like a convolution reverb that you need to load on every instrument track.



I gave an answer to this (maybe in the user demo thread) iirc.

The relevant part is that this plugin captures different positions in a space captured with different mic settings.

So, I use one instance for all woodwinds (which have a pre panning with S1)
Edit: to be clear: all woodwinds are routed to a bus with 1 instance of berlin studio

The brass gets one instance per sections; with a 4-3-3-1 setting that would be: 4 instances

Strings take up 5 instances if it's the same library (or if the libraries have a very similar sound)

In the case of e.g. the brass, I make a bus for the horns (where the 4 instruments are routed to), one for the trumpets, etc.

With strings, if there are 3 Violin 1 patches (e.g. because they are dividi), they go all to the "Violin 1 bus" etc., same for vni2, Viole, Celli, bassi

So, I usually have between 10 and 25 instances, which isn't a big deal for my (4 year old) computer.


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## wunderflo (Dec 23, 2022)

robgb said:


> Was my question about this plugin answered? If so, I can't find the answer. I'm curious to know HOW this plugin is supposed to be used. As a reverb send buss? And, if so, can you create a send for each of the microphones separately?
> 
> And if not, how much CPU/memory does it draw if it's meant to be used directly on a track? What would happen if I had fifty instrument tracks with this plugin on each track?


honestly, this was already answered multiple times now.

Using fifty instances probably won't be a good idea... it'll be quite CPU-intensive.

You can use it as an insert. You can use it as a send. Just like any other reverb.
You always need to be a bit strategical and economical with that and find a compromise that works for you.

As this particular reverb offers different recorded locations, I definitely would try to make use of these locations as much as your machine allows it.  Hence, sending all woodwinds to one instance, all brass to another, etc., instead of running the whole mix through one instance.

EDIT: @Living Fossil was quicker AND better! :D


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## Trash Panda (Dec 23, 2022)

robgb said:


> Was my question about this plugin answered? If so, I can't find the answer. I'm curious to know HOW this plugin is supposed to be used. As a reverb send buss? And, if so, can you create a send for each of the microphones separately?
> 
> And if not, how much CPU/memory does it draw if it's meant to be used directly on a track? What would happen if I had fifty instrument tracks with this plugin on each track?


For strings and brass it can be used as an instrument level insert because each section has its own positions (violins 1, violins 2, violas, trumpets, trombones, horns, tuba, etc.). 

Woodwinds and choir are a single position, so you can pre pan the original signals and use it as an insert on the group bus. 

Percussion has forward, middle and back so you can have up to three depth sub group busses that it can be used as an insert on. 

There are also front stage and mid stage generic options that can be used for soloists, in situ pianos or other instruments. 

It would not make as much sense to use as a send unless you really want to process the direct signal (“close mic”) differently than the “mic” signals.


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## wunderflo (Dec 23, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> as mentioned one post above yours, I think it's a good idea to split the brass according to their family.
> (1 bus for horns, 1 for trpts, 1 for trombones, 1 for tuba)


as mentioned one post above yours, I already admitted your reply was better. :D

But still, the question "how many instances do I need" depends on
a) how many instances does your machine handle (or are you willing to freeze tracks)
b) how many different locations do you want to use for your individual instruments/groups
c) how many different mic settings do you want to use for your individual instruments/groups

At least in my case the answer will be a compromise somewhere in the middle. 

PS: I usually don't mix orchestral pieces and often don't go for a realistic representation of the sound stage or orchestra. Hence, I don't use the different locations the way they've been labelled and my thinking about this is a bit more abstract.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 23, 2022)

@wunderflo : I already deleted that comment 
and I fully agree with the aspects you mentioned
(as well as with the remark about possible problems with legato transitions in wet libraries...
I had to replace the OT oboe more than once because some transitions were ruining the whole party....)


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 23, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> @wunderflo : I already deleted that comment
> and I fully agree with the aspects you mentioned
> (as well as with the remark about possible problems with legato transitions in wet libraries...
> I had to replace the OT oboe more than once because some transitions were ruining the whole party....)


Please elaborate on your OT oboe troubles.


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## Living Fossil (Dec 23, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Please elaborate on your OT oboe troubles.


short answer: the sound during some legato transitions was so unnatural and phasey that it wasn't useable. I had to replace the instrument

longer answer: when you sample an instrument with the room, the sound always carries a portion of the reverb in it. Now, when you make the crossfade between the transition portion of the sound and the sustain portion, these two reverb parts can drastically change the perception of the baked in room.
Possible effects are a (of course very short) collapse of the room information or things that sound like phasings.
Very often this is no problem, but sometimes it is.
I happened to have it with the OT oboe on occasions.
(And honestly, actually I prefer working with my dry-ish woodwinds libraries (the old VSL, 8io Intimate Woodwinds etc.) in combination with Berlin Studio to the OT woodwinds.


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## ed buller (Dec 24, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> This was my question too. Watching the various review videos it looks like a convolution reverb that you need to load on every instrument track.
> 
> My template has 230+ tracks so not sure how my PC would handle that much convolution processing....


it has sections for V1,V2,VA,VC,CB,WW,Horns,Trp,Trb,Tuba,Perc ( 3 if needed ) Choir.

So I have basically 11 instances. Works a treat and sounds stupendous . Don't use any other verbs now

best

ed


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 24, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> This was my question too. Watching the various review videos it looks like a convolution reverb that you need to load on every instrument track.
> 
> My template has 230+ tracks so not sure how my PC would handle that much convolution processing....


You dont need every single instrument in it. Also, I suspect some of your 230 tracks are the same instrument, just different arts. A Symphony orchestra e.g. usually dont have 230 different instruments…. I would use it for instruments that really benefit from it, that are not already recorded in a big space. Soloists, close miced percussion etc. I think it does wonders on that. E.g. i just used it on Orchestral Tools Andes. Nice and easy.


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## Noeticus (Dec 25, 2022)

Merry Christmas, Peter!


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## RogiervG (Dec 25, 2022)

Will this work nicely with e.g. Air Lyndhurst?
I know the rooms are not identical in size and all.. but still.. maybe with a some little knob turning and mic selection combo it can sound pretty close to Air lyndhurst?


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## AndyP (Dec 25, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> When I used the IRs years ago in my Cubase setup, I used them in send/aux channels for instrument groups.
> 
> I also experimented with smaller groups (say Flutes) with only early reflections, but that was too much work, too detailed, with general purpose convolvers like REVerence.
> 
> ...


I am not a mixing expert, let me mention that.

I routed my string sections into a group (Vln1, Vln2, Viola etc.) and then added an FX channel to the group as Send. In BS I muted the close signal.

So I can adjust the room part with the FX channel.

That was also the only way I found, because as an insert I lose control over the core signal because then everything is quieter when I make the group channel unfortunately.

I assume that is exactly what you describe?


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## SZK-Max (Dec 25, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> Will this work nicely with e.g. Air Lyndhurst?
> I know the rooms are not identical in size and all.. but still.. maybe with a some little knob turning and mic selection combo it can sound pretty close to Air lyndhurst?


Best for me.

I use a AV Horns studio tree mic for the dry signal. The bus has compression, saturation and EQ. And I'm adding low boom sound in IR. Finally, the MidSide controls mic balance.

SSB and AVB

View attachment test-01.mp3


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 27, 2022)

AndyP said:


> I am not a mixing expert, let me mention that.
> 
> I routed my string sections into a group (Vln1, Vln2, Viola etc.) and then added an FX channel to the group as Send. In BS I muted the close signal.
> 
> ...


Yes, good approach


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 27, 2022)

Hi all, nice posts and helpfull replies to each other.

Been hit by covid, probably karma for me losing my temper here


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Dec 27, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hi all, nice posts and helpfull replies to each other.
> 
> Been hit by covid, probably karma for me losing my temper here


Argh, hope you‘ll be well again soon.
About temper, we probably all lose it every once in a while


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## AndyP (Dec 27, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hi all, nice posts and helpfull replies to each other.
> 
> Been hit by covid, probably karma for me losing my temper here


Get well soon! All the best.


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## wunderflo (Dec 27, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hi all, nice posts and helpfull replies to each other.
> 
> Been hit by covid, probably karma for me losing my temper here


sorry to hear that. Get well soon!


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## rudi (Dec 27, 2022)

Get better soon - very best wishes!


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## Living Fossil (Dec 27, 2022)

AndyP said:


> an insert I lose control over the core signal because then everything is quieter when I make the group channel unfortunately.


That's because neither the "Input" channel nor the "source" channel is at 0dB at default.
You can set both to 0dB if that's easier for you to keep control.
With Input and source both at 0 dB you have a constellation as if "Decca", "AB" and "Surround" were on a (internal) send.

Btw, I would make use of the different string positions.



@Peter Emanuel Roos : Get well soon - best wishes !


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 27, 2022)

Default channel levels is a good discussion point, I already changed my mind once and think the above remarks underline why zero would be better for the input (like output).
Suggestions welcome!


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## RabornJohnson (Dec 27, 2022)

I just purchased Berlin Studio Reverb yesterday and tested it on a number of smaller boutique string libraries that weren't recorded in great spaces. It sounds great! I am going to have to learn how to do some tweaking for some of them (I've traditionally avoided much tweaking on reverb plugins in the past - I know, not great), but the fact that this reverb feels more like the mixing section of an orchestral library actually makes it a little less intimidating to me.


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## stprodigy (Dec 27, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Hi all, nice posts and helpfull replies to each other.
> 
> Been hit by covid, probably karma for me losing my temper here


Sorry to hear that. Covid has been getting a lot of people this holiday season. Wishing you a speedy recovery - best wishes!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 27, 2022)

RabornJohnson said:


> I just purchased Berlin Studio Reverb yesterday and tested it on a number of smaller boutique string libraries that weren't recorded in great spaces. It sounds great! I am going to have to learn how to do some tweaking for some of them (I've traditionally avoided much tweaking on reverb plugins in the past - I know, not great), but the fact that this reverb feels more like the mixing section of an orchestral library actually makes it a little less intimidating to me.


So nice to read, thank you!


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## AndyP (Dec 27, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> That's because neither the "Input" channel nor the "source" channel is at 0dB at default.
> You can set both to 0dB if that's easier for you to keep control.
> With Input and source both at 0 dB you have a constellation as if "Decca", "AB" and "Surround" were on a (internal) send.
> 
> ...


Yes, I may have worded that a bit awkwardly. Each instrument group has its own BS instance. Strings subdivided by seating position, Brass, Winds, etc. I am in the process of building a new template which will naturally take a bit of time.
So far I have 9 BS instances in use, without significant problems (except for the crackles at the very beginning).


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 27, 2022)

And thank you all for the wishes!

It is mild, not bad at all.
Maybe just enough to introduce some brain fog errors in the software code 
But I am also taking some much needed time off


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

It just dawned on me that from now on, every orchestral library section could be recorded with only 1 mic position, and this technique could be applied to all the famous rooms globally, to then put those close mic’d sections in those rooms. 

I mean, it’s obvious to write that out. But, I hadn’t pictured something like this potentially changing the process of sampling orchestral sections until now. Or, it hadn’t registered in my brain until just now as something actually possible.

(The initial recording should still be done in a “decent” room, of course.)


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 27, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> It just dawned on me that from now on, every orchestral library section could be recorded with only 1 mic position, and this technique could be applied to all the famous rooms globally, to then put those close mic’d sections in those rooms.
> 
> I mean, it’s obvious to write that out. But, I hadn’t pictured something like this potentially changing the process of sampling orchestral sections until now. Or, it hadn’t registered in my brain until just now as something actually possible.
> 
> (The initial recording should still be done in a “decent” room, of course.)


Nice!

But I guess there will always be lots of people preferring the more "wet" libraries, because of the realism attributed to their recording approach (even if they need complicated release-samples). They can give faster results, for people who do not like to tweak in the mixer or use templates.


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## RabornJohnson (Dec 27, 2022)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> Nice!
> 
> But I guess there will always be lots of people preferring the more "wet" libraries, because of the realism attributed to their recording approach (even if they need complicated release-samples). They can give faster results, for people who do not like to tweak in the mixer or use templates.


I imagine a lot of the purchasing public are looking for something that sounds great out of the box as well, not even realizing that something like this is possible. I LOVE all of the mic positions and depth of sound in something like Berlin Strings, but having to load all of those mic positions over and over across each instrument group is time-consuming and resource-intensive. I love the idea that Berlin Studio Reverb could solve this problem while also allowing us to put other libraries that weren't recorded in these kinds of spaces into the room. I think the problem is as much of a marketing issue as anything else - helping people understand that an "out of the box" sound isn't the end all be all.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 27, 2022)

Thank you!


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## RabornJohnson (Dec 27, 2022)

In my day job, I'm a product manager for an online service provider. One of the challenges in dealing with the public is learning to interpret what they say they need from what they _actually want_. Sometimes those align, but often you have to hear what someone is asking for _behind _what they are actually saying. I don't think any composer is saying "you know, what I really want is a hard drive full of samples from a small number of libraries", but this is what they think they need. The challenge of customer education and marketing is to help the public understand what it is they're actually looking for - not just what a product has to offer. Sorry for the mini-diatribe but this is something I'm up regularly in my "other" life, so fun to share when applicable.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 27, 2022)

RabornJohnson said:


> In my day job, I'm a product manager for an online service provider. One of the challenges in dealing with the public is learning to interpret what they say they need from what they _actually want_. Sometimes those align, but often you have to hear what someone is asking for _behind _what they are actually saying. I don't think any composer is saying "you know, what I really want is a hard drive full of samples from a small number of libraries", but this is what they think they need. The challenge of customer education and marketing is to help the public understand what it is they're actually looking for - not just what a product has to offer. Sorry for the mini-diatribe but this is something I'm up regularly in my "other" life, so fun to share when applicable.


Hey Raborn,
Nice and appropriate words!
Until two years ago I was a UX/UI designer, and talking with end-users and product owners had much in common with what you write about.


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## Soundbed (Dec 27, 2022)

RabornJohnson said:


> In my day job, I'm a product manager for an online service provider. One of the challenges in dealing with the public is learning to interpret what they say they need from what they _actually want_. Sometimes those align, but often you have to hear what someone is asking for _behind _what they are actually saying. I don't think any composer is saying "you know, what I really want is a hard drive full of samples from a small number of libraries", but this is what they think they need. The challenge of customer education and marketing is to help the public understand what it is they're actually looking for - not just what a product has to offer. Sorry for the mini-diatribe but this is something I'm up regularly in my "other" life, so fun to share when applicable.


We have a lot in common.


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## syrinx (Dec 27, 2022)

This plugin really breathes new life in my sample libraries. Thanks!


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## Montisquirrel (Dec 27, 2022)

RabornJohnson said:


> One of the challenges in dealing with the public is learning to interpret what they say they need from what they _actually want_. Sometimes those align, but often you have to hear what someone is asking for _behind _what they are actually saying.


Sounds like some of the filmmakers I have worked with 

@Peter Emanuel Roos. The demo version will be released befor the intro price period is over, is that right?


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## jneebz (Dec 27, 2022)

Would it be inappropriate to ask how Berlin Studio compares with EW Spaces 2 here?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 28, 2022)

Montisquirrel said:


> Sounds like some of the filmmakers I have worked with
> 
> @Peter Emanuel Roos. The demo version will be released befor the intro price period is over, is that right?


Right


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Dec 28, 2022)

jneebz said:


> Would it be inappropriate to ask how Berlin Studio compares with EW Spaces 2 here?


Not at all, I am curious as well


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## TomaeusD (Dec 28, 2022)

I was wondering today about the best way to incorporate closer solo instruments into a Berlin Studio with other sections. I've seen some people use BS as inserts on section buses, and also as aux/send for each bus but with Source turned off completely. Either way, if I have a solo trumpet that I want to use more of the dry signal while capturing the same seating position, wouldn't I need to create a separate instance of BS for that as an insert? Maybe I could only use the early reflections on a separate BS instance and then add a little send to the trumpet section bus. Or perhaps I can just route that solo trumpet the same way as the other trumpet section instruments, but use Pre-Fader as opposed to Post-Fader on the send, and adjust the mix level as the dry level. It's a little late and my brain hurts from overthinking this, I'm sure there is a simple approach to this that is most efficient.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Sunday at 9:40 AM)

TomaeusD said:


> I was wondering today about the best way to incorporate closer solo instruments into a Berlin Studio with other sections. I've seen some people use BS as inserts on section buses, and also as aux/send for each bus but with Source turned off completely. Either way, if I have a solo trumpet that I want to use more of the dry signal while capturing the same seating position, wouldn't I need to create a separate instance of BS for that as an insert? Maybe I could only use the early reflections on a separate BS instance and then add a little send to the trumpet section bus. Or perhaps I can just route that solo trumpet the same way as the other trumpet section instruments, but use Pre-Fader as opposed to Post-Fader on the send, and adjust the mix level as the dry level. It's a little late and my brain hurts from overthinking this, I'm sure there is a simple approach to this that is most efficient.


I would use one instance of Berlin Studio right on the trumpet track and focus first on pushing the sound into the room with early reflections and maybe a bit tail from the Decca Tree, thus a focus on adding positional information, with not much reverb. And then have a send from that channel to a brass or trumpets aux/group, which has Berlin Studio, with indeed the Source channel silenced.

I had missed your questions, sorry.


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## TomaeusD (Sunday at 1:12 PM)

Peter Emanuel Roos said:


> I would use one instance of Berlin Studio right on the trumpet track and focus first on pushing the sound into the room with early reflections and maybe a bit tail from the Decca Tree, thus a focus on adding positional information, with not much reverb. And then have a send from that channel to a brass or trumpets aux/group, which has Berlin Studio, with indeed the Source channel silenced.
> 
> I had missed your questions, sorry.


Right on, thank you!


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## Orlu (Monday at 11:50 PM)

This reverb sounds absolutely fantastic and is an absolute godsend for someone like me who works with a lot of Orchestral Tools libraries.

Unfortunately I'm also experiencing severe CPU issues. This is the Cubase performance meter in a completely empty project except for one Kontakt instrument and one Berlin instance set up as a send. As you can see as soon as I start playing something the meter jumps by around 25%. I want to use at least around 15 instances for each of the orchestral sections, but with this kind of performance that won't be possible I'm afraid (this is on a W10 machine with 128GB RAM, i7-7820X CPU and a buffer of 256 FWIW).
View attachment 2023-01-10_08-41-19.mp4


I hope these CPU issues can be resolved quickly, then this will easily be my new favourite reverb and my favourite purchase of 2022.

EDIT: weirdly enough in Studio One this isn't a problem at all, so might be an issue with Cubase 12.0.52 specifically?


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## Jett Hitt (Tuesday at 12:44 AM)

I am not sure what the issues with Cubase and Logic are, but clearly something is up. While I basically can't run it in Logic on a Mac Studio Max, I was able to run 35 instances of it in Dorico with room for more.


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## Orlu (Tuesday at 12:51 AM)

I just did some further testing with 12 instances loaded and all active at the same time. The performance meter stays exactly the same as with 1 instance and everything sounds great. 🤷‍♂️ Task manager also only shows around 12% CPU usage.

So it really might just be a weird Cubase thing...


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## NeonMediaKJT (Tuesday at 1:51 AM)

Orlu said:


> This reverb sounds absolutely fantastic and is an absolute godsend for someone like me who works with a lot of Orchestral Tools libraries.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm also experiencing severe CPU issues. This is the Cubase performance meter in a completely empty project except for one Kontakt instrument and one Berlin instance set up as a send. As you can see as soon as I start playing something the meter jumps by around 25%. I want to use at least around 15 instances for each of the orchestral sections, but with this kind of performance that won't be possible I'm afraid (this is on a W10 machine with 128GB RAM, i7-7820X CPU and a buffer of 256 FWIW).
> View attachment 2023-01-10_08-41-19.mp4
> ...


Try loading more. I also get spikes but it doesn’t seem to mind me loading more instances for some reason lol


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Tuesday at 2:29 AM)

Hi all,

Rest assured that I am working on the issues mentioned.

There are significant differences between setups that seem hard to explain.

Some setups can only handle a few instances, whereas the absolute record is still 110 (!) instances on a very fast AMD system.

There is one common bottleneck that applies to all these setups, affected or not.

(this is going to be a bit technical)

Plugins typically do their work when the host asks them to, in a "call-back" function. In a few milliseconds they have to finish whatever processing they need to do, otherwise there will be audible issues, and high CPU load indications. "Rinse-repeat 200 times per second".

There are apparently external factors that can reduce this available time, making it hard for Berlin Studio to complete its intensive convolution calculations in this limited call-back time.

In my current version (and thus the next update), several improvements have been made to address this bottleneck risk.

Not all calculations need to be finished in this call-back and are handled by dedicated threads.
The separate handling of early reflections and tails has been significantly improved, saving expensive calculations that were also done in the call-back time.

These changes should improve throughput on all systems. I have seen factor four improvements in my Logic on M1 setup for instance (rough impression from the load meters, but high-res timings seem to support this).

Cheers,
Peter


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