# Director likes the cue - me not. How to deal with it?



## AR (Dec 24, 2013)

Hey guys,

This is my current situation:
I wrote some thematic stuff (before I have seen any footage) and before the movie was edited. The director fell in love with 2-3 cues and even used them in some key scene. Now time goes by...I start to realize that this music won't fit that well (and I know I can do better). I even presented new, freseh cues but he simply won't let go off that old stuff. 

So what to do?

I know the old cues will hurt the movie. And since its an big movie with some famous actors, it'll destroy the movie and eventually mine too, cause people will say: "Oh gosh, what a terrible music. That simply doesn't fit"

I even thought about quitting the job. But its my first international gig and I'm actually a no-quitter.

What would you guys suggest?


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## Ozymandias (Dec 24, 2013)

Apologies if this seems a little blunt, but: Is this your project?

If it's not your project, here's what I would do:

1. Forget about quitting over 2-3 cues.
2. Stop trying to change the director's mind.
3. Focus your energy on any remaining work for the project.


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## AR (Dec 24, 2013)

-Can't change his mind. 
-If let's say I'd keep the old cues, from there on I have to write the rest of the score (in that particular style)...which will be a horrible disatreous rollercoaster 

Since it's an big movie with lot's of VFX, I'd personally go with some hybrid stuff. But the director specifically wants me to write orchestral stuff a la James Horner. Such a pain in the ass


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## doctornine (Dec 24, 2013)

What Ozymandias said.....

What you personally think of your music in this situation is totally irrelevant.
You do what you get paid to do and get on with it.

Just because I happen to think one piece of music I have written is better than another, that has absolutely no bearing on it's usage.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Dec 24, 2013)

Writing music for a career is a wonderful thing to be doing, but just like Bach and Stravinsky and Williams etc, you're doing it as a commission for someone else. Write the cue you want to write, and keep it for yourself or library, showreel etc. Then swallow your pride and write exactly what the director wants, with a few variations to experiment. 
If you end up with something both you and the director like, then fab.


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## mark812 (Dec 24, 2013)

Your opinion is irrelevant..your only job is to make that director happy.


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## Gabriel2013 (Dec 24, 2013)

wilx @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> Writing music for a career is a wonderful thing to be doing, but just like Bach and Stravinsky and Williams etc, you're doing it as a commission for someone else. Write the cue you want to write, and keep it for yourself or library, showreel etc. Then swallow your pride and write exactly what the director wants, with a few variations to experiment.
> If you end up with something both you and the director like, then fab.



+1


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## dgburns (Dec 24, 2013)

AR @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> This is my current situation:
> I wrote some thematic stuff (before I have seen any footage) and before the movie was edited. The director fell in love with 2-3 cues and even used them in some key scene. Now time goes by...I start to realize that this music won't fit that well (and I know I can do better). I even presented new, freseh cues but he simply won't let go off that old stuff.
> ...



Usually, i find fault with these kinds of posts.I think it's because many of us work our collective butts off basically trying/managing to make some kind of respectable living making music.
I sometimes suspect that the real motive behind such posts is to say"look at me,I'm writing music for a major project".Well,as you can imagine,many here are in the same boat,some work it hard,some are only fortunate to have work in this way infrequently at best.So this brings up some negative connotations to me as a result.
However,I am in the holiday spirit today,so I will resist trying to be a scrooge and will try my best to offer up honest to goodness heartfelt advice.here goes-

Random thoughts-
in ten years time,you will likely say-gosh darnit,that director was right all along!

you will find that your willingness to please yourself and please others is in sync when you truly wish to have a meeting of the minds with the director.that is to say,when you truly try to "see things his/her way",you will move your way of thinking to a new gravity center,and start to see things in a new light.and the music will just flow out of you,and you'll be super pleased with it,and won't want to delay in sharing it.
We play a strange role in that we do really try to fulfill someone else's vision,and depending on your way of writing music,this will make the collaboration easier or harder.If find it easier to allow others to guide me by way of feedback on the music I write as a starting point to what they actually want.This way,when they see you don't unravel when they reject a cue,it gets easier to get to the heart of it.Directors are people too,and it can be daunting for them to give up all this power to a composer,without having the vocabulary to express themselves as well as they would like.Obviously,this is a generalization.
our ability to deal with rejection with grace and optimism is actually better for our careers than trying to win the crusade of "being right".I remember a saying in retail that is similar.If you are in an argument with a customer,you actually lose if you win the argument,because the customer is always right,even when they are wrong.
I personally find my value of success in writing comes when my people start to "own" the music as if it's their own.When they take emotional ownership of it,I know I've done my job.You get better at being able to recognize that the more production cycles you work through.It never changes,the dynamic never changes,just the people coming through the door may change,but the situation plays itself out the same way almost everytime.

So with that said,if you plan on writing more music for media,I think you can copy and paste your post,because I feel you will be encountering the same thing over and over again.Creative people are an unusual bunch,unpredictable,highly charged,and sometimes strangely lacking any normal way of expressing themselves in a normal clear manner.

Your willingness to be helpful and be a team player will be better virtues and carry you further than your viruosity could ever do.


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## TheUnfinished (Dec 24, 2013)

No offence, but if the movie is going to crash and burn because of the music you've already written a) why did you write music that could wreck a film in the first place? and b) I can't think of a single film that was a failure on the back of the soundtrack not quite working.

You're obviously very proud of your opportunity and the project, and your music generally... but the music is just one cog in the wheel of a film. I think you're being a little melodramatic.

Work WITH the director, not against him. Now THAT would be a disaster!


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## RiffWraith (Dec 24, 2013)

AR @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> This is my current situation:
> I wrote some thematic stuff (before I have seen any footage) and before the movie was edited. The director fell in love with 2-3 cues and even used them in some key scene. Now time goes by...I start to realize that this music won't fit that well (and I know I can do better). I even presented new, freseh cues but he simply won't let go off that old stuff.
> ...



My recommendation: watch some HZ vids. Specifically ones where he talks about composer/dir. relationship. If after that you don't change your mind about your initial post, you are in the wrong business, my friend.

Cheers.


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## mverta (Dec 24, 2013)

1) You work for the director.

2) It's not up to you to decide what "destroys the movie," it's up to the director, and then the audience.

3) Easy there, Pygmalion. We can make a movie; we can seldom break it.

4) The director likes your music. The director, who hires you, likes your music. The director, who is usually difficult to please, and who hires you, likes your music.

5) Congrats on the big-time important job! Now change your attitude so it isn't your last.


_Mike


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## midi_controller (Dec 24, 2013)

AR @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> Since it's an big movie with lot's of VFX, I'd personally go with some hybrid stuff. But the director specifically wants me to write orchestral stuff a la James Horner. Such a pain in the ass



Yeah, cause it's not like Horner has done any movies with lots of VFX. And we all know only hybrid music would work for a film like that right? :roll: 

Sorry dude, but it sounds like you need to do some homework and find out what the orchestra is actually capable of. If you are not open to exploring these avenues in collaboration with the director, walk away from the project, because ultimately it will be you that hurts the project, not the director.


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## Greg (Dec 24, 2013)

Talk to him like a human being and stress that you are very concerned about the cue. 

Obviously these reasons are why it is so important to have a trusted and open relationship with your director.

If you feel like you're not the guy for the job. TELL him immediately. Sure, this is sometimes just a 'gig' for a composer. But for the director, they often invest years of their life and lots of money. If you don't want to do it / feel you cant do it, then have some respect and tell him.


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## JohannesR (Dec 24, 2013)

You may say that the client is always right in a business sense because they are the ones who pay you for doing the job, but chances are that the director is right in a artistic sense as well. The director has usually been living with the film for a long time, but you as the composer come in on the project as one of the last guys. The director knows the project way better than you!

Advice: Consider the possibility of the director being right in EVERY sense, and save your hybrid cues for another project.


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## David Story (Dec 24, 2013)

Good advice above. Here's another take:

YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENT MOVIE THAN THE DIRECTOR.

The most common cause for failed projects is key people working against each other and the films best interest. Or even common interest.

It's helpful to have alternate versions in case things shift, say at the dub. Till then, make the same movie everyone else is. It can be fun


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## PMortise (Dec 24, 2013)

AR @ Tue Dec 24 said:


> ...I even thought about quitting the job. But its my first international gig and I'm actually a no-quitter...


Congrats on the gig, but since when do "no-quitters" think about quitting? :roll:


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## dannthr (Dec 24, 2013)

Sometimes clients can become attached to temporary or placeholder material.

At this stage, you need to prioritize. It's most important to please the client, but you can sell the client on a change in direction. 

That means that you need to clearly demonstrate that you understand the film your director is trying to make and that you can clearly articulate why you think a change in musical direction can help empower the films overall message.

When I'm in situations like this, my first priority is to satisfy the immediate needs of the client by giving them exactly what they ask for--this is a critical task toward gaining the trust of the client. When the client trusts you more, they are more likely to give you creative freedom over the musical direction.

Then prioritize the work you need to complete to ensure your deadlines before going back and offering alternate cues.

The one thing directors like more than anything else is being able to control the final product and sometimes swatches of alternates can make sure your give that sense of control to the director without going outside what you think is appropriate for the work as well.

As Mike said, hang on to the clients that dig your work--nothing is quite as sweet as a repeat client.


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## AR (Dec 24, 2013)

Hey guys,

Merry x-mas to every one. Well, I satisfied the director with the music I wrote prior movie editing. I believe that he actually just fell in love with that tune. When I presented him the hybrid version of that he wasnt pleased. Anyways I finish the job no matter what. 
-I know many indie movies where the music is too much and simply destroyed the movie-
Btw...I was not bragging. I was simply showing my concerns on my personal most important movie (right now). And maybe some of you shared similar experiences. 

Anyways, 2014 is coming and I have two more feature films to score. NOW I'm bragging. HarrHarr :D


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## Jacob Cadmus (Jan 4, 2014)

There's a youtube video I saw that addressed this very issue. I can't remember what it was or who was talking in it, but he said something in particular that struck a chord with me, as I hope it will with you. Not an exact quote, but it was something along the lines of:

"If you're making music for a client, don't ever fall in love with your music."

In other words, you shouldn't risk getting attached to your music, especially if the client disagrees with you.

Also, my heart sank a little when I read the James Horner bit. Personally, I would sell my soul for a big scoring gig that called for Horner-esque orchestral grandeur.


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