# How do you make a good mock-up?



## FrozeN (Nov 24, 2004)

I decided to try seriously on doing a mock-up today, as I have never tried it, except only a few really short clips for jingles and games.

So, what usually do you pay most attention to when you first start sequencing the excerpt?

I selected the Introit of Faure's Requiem as it covered choral and chamber strings, trouble enough for a newbie like me! :lol: And I only have decent libraries for those sounds too. :oops: 

I am using VOTA, KH Solo Strings (no violins though I think Faure hated them! :lol: ) and PMI Baroque Organ.

This is a short clip I have worked out so far. Please let me know how do you think and what did I do wrong to make it sound bad!  Also, if I am gonna to refine and touch it up what should I be paying attention to? I know there are a lot of experts out here!!!

http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=1816882&q=Hi (Introit (Stream))
http://www.soundclick.com/util/DownloadSong.cfm?ID=1816882 (Introit (Download))

Thanks a lot in advance! :wink:

PS. the download isn't activated yet as I uploaded it to Soundclick.com, gotta wait a few hours I guess.


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## Niah (Nov 24, 2004)

I'm not a pro but I think it's really good. The choral is really exposed but it's doesn't sound too fake.

It would help the piece if you had VSL chamber strings or SISS IMHO.


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## TheoKrueger (Nov 24, 2004)

I liked this . It's only weakness was the cello's on the high registers which sounded a bit sampled imo. 
The low stuff sounds nice. Vocals sound good too


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## FrozeN (Nov 24, 2004)

Niah said:


> It would help the piece if you had VSL chamber strings or SISS IMHO.


I wish I had them too! :lol: 
Just trying to make the most out of what I have at the moment.


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## FrozeN (Nov 24, 2004)

TheoKrueger said:


> I liked this . It's only weakness was the cello's on the high registers which sounded a bit sampled imo.


I agree, and the violas too actually. Do you think EQ will help a bit during the post production? Can't really add much EQ at the moment as I am using GigaStudio... hehe you know, only NFX4! :oops:


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## TheoKrueger (Nov 24, 2004)

I am not good with eq-ing stuff at all so i would propably replace the high cello's with Viola's or something. But if you can EQ , give it a shot 

It's good most of the time to keep high cello notes on a bit lower velocity than the rest . Both because they are usually recorded aggresive and because ears are more sensitive to that range.


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## FrozeN (Nov 25, 2004)

TheoKrueger said:


> I am not good with eq-ing stuff at all so i would propably replace the high cello's with Viola's or something. But if you can EQ , give it a shot


Hehe, maybe we should blame Faure for not using violins in his Requiem and extended the violas and cellos to their highest range! :lol: 

I made a bit more today. Guess I don't really have the skills and gear to make it sound better but it's so much fun to do mock-up's!  
Oh, it seems deep linking to Soundclick doesn't work for me.. :? 

:arrow: My Soundclick

Thanks a lot for your comment!


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## adamfrechette (Dec 1, 2004)

lol I love the toffee one. As for eq, in my experience you can only really remove high freq hiss, low rumble or high mids. Pretty much anything that might make it sound bad. But it is not magic, so better samples will always sound better. Trust me I made the mistake of recording at 96khz on my crappy sound card and there was tons of high freq hiss in the strings, violas had low rumble and chorus samples usually have those annoying over powering mids. So all I can say is experiment, I am using Adobe audition and it has a nice 30 band equlizer, that thing can be used to get rid of anything that might make it sound bad. Good luck and nice work.


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## TheoKrueger (Dec 6, 2004)

My lunch money (Aka : my two cents ) :

: Always control dynamics with CC11 for max life as much as you can.
If you want a nice attack start from High and fade out a bit towards the end of the note, or else usually fade in a little bit and again fade out slowly at the end . 
For the last note of the melody , use CC11 again with a fade out curve at the very end of the note ...makes it smooth. 

: A sudden expression accent at the very end of a phraze can also give some nice power and realism. Works wonderful with brass ->
Start from high..... go lower.... accent really fast at the very end of the chord . like an S turned upside down and flipped ( sort of ) 

: Imagine the real thing, then emulate it with your CC11 . Other instruments are more dynamic like a flute so you can draw a lot of CC11 freely up and down, other are less sensitive like a string section so even a small change of 20/127 will affect the sound .

: Pre-Plan your expression controllers while looking at the notes in piano roll. It helps to do the whole drawing in one go and make corrections after rather than drawing piece by piece while you insert notes . 

: Use curves ( S curves ) instead of lines when drawing pitch-bend or controllers , they seem to work better than linear drawing in all occasions

: Slightly randomize the attack times of fast attack instruments like Piano , marimba, xylophone , glocken , celesta , pizzicato etc. Usually having the highest notes a little bit later makes it sound really nice for piano , glock and celestea.
Instead of having a perfectly aligned chord , you can make a really fast arpeggio with the notes ( Turn off snap to grid and move each note to the right a little bit more than the lower note ) . For fast strings i think randomizing the attacks can mud it up instead of making it more real

: Apply small pitch-bends wherever you can for solo stuff ( Really small ones ) They really help the realism in whole. A small pitch accent or decent at the point you want to emphasize , or even before the point .

: When using convolution , be careful not to use a badly recorded Phazed impulse file as it can dislocate the bass and/or cause cancelation. The same goes for Stereo Wideners . 

Phaze ? : 
Put your palm in front of your mouth and start going SHHHHHHH like white noise. Now move your palm towards your mouth and away again. Phaze is the sound you get whenever your hand is moving towards your mouth . Shiouuu  

: Always remember to bypass the reverb at stages and compare the pro's and cons of the result . Always apply reverb starting from low and adding, not the opposite . Sometimes lots of reverb feels great , but when you take it out you say " Oh shit , that's why the whole mix was so muddy "


Most of you guys know this stuff already i guess :roll:


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## Andy B (Dec 8, 2004)

Keep tweaking stuff until it sounds like an orchestra 8) 


Hope that helps,

Andy. :D


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## TheoKrueger (Dec 8, 2004)

Andy B said:


> Keep tweaking stuff until it sounds like an orchestra 8)
> 
> 
> Hope that helps,
> ...



You got a point there Andy !

Next time before i post something i'll ask you to make a quick summary and save me the trouble :lol:


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## Andy B (Dec 8, 2004)

Sorry Theo, wasn't meant as a reaction to your post - all of your comments are really useful. The thread just reminded me of the story about the guy who scuplted a perfect elephant and everyone asked him how he did it - "simple, I just kept chipping bits off until it looked like an elephant".

I think that's how it goes......


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## TheoKrueger (Dec 8, 2004)

Hey Andy , i know it wasn't a reaction for my post, i was just kiding too 

It's the internet, people can never see your expressions . That's why we all have to go out for beers one day together at the local pub.... ( Local ? hmm ) and have a REAL sample talk at last !

Cool elephant story btw ! I'm gonna say that to everyone from now on


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## Niah (Dec 8, 2004)

Great post Theo, I've learned a lot a didn't know. 

Yes Andy that is a great story.  But this is not a topic about "How did you composed that cue?".
This is about the more technical aspects of music production, so there's a lot that you need to know first before applying your creativity and talent on creating the best sound possible.
Otherwise you don't know where to begin, because you don't have the
knowledge of the tools at your disposal, or what they do.

Just my 2 cents


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## awaey (Nov 12, 2022)

from 2004 same question ?


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## aeliron (Nov 12, 2022)

awaey said:


> from 2004 same question ?


Yes


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## aeliron (Nov 12, 2022)

awaey said:


> from 2004 same question ?


But seriously, folks … LOTS of helpful stuff if you search on “realistic orchestral mockup” on YouTube.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 12, 2022)

awaey said:


> from 2004 same question ?


There are some sticky threads on the top of the page here:






Composition, Orchestration & Technique


Discussions on composing and scoring music. Tips and suggestions on how to improve your orchestral mockups and midi techniques. Feel free to post unfinished or experimental works and get feedback.




vi-control.net





This is one of them, lots of tips & tricks:

Thread 'Your favorite MIDI orchestration tip'
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/your-favorite-midi-orchestration-tip.56385/


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