# Critique my mix, please?



## rickholets (Jan 13, 2012)

I have a couple of tracks here from a project. I've spent some time on the mix, but am arriving at a point of mental saturation and would appreciate some outside opinion.

T&J
http://www.box.com/s/gz791377uhdj46xz0c1m

Conclusion
http://soundcloud.com/rickholets/conclusion/s-frXvV


To my ears, the mix for "T&J" is maybe bordering on sterile with over-hyped highs. "Conclusion" I am a bit happier with, but I'm not sure if it's all the way there yet. It maybe could be warmer. What do you guys think?

Thanks for listening!
Rick


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## RiffWraith (Jan 13, 2012)

Hello 



rickholets @ Fri Jan 13 said:


> What do you guys think?



I think you should not be using soundcloud to ask opinions on your mix. I have heard mixes on scloud that sound just fine, I have heard others that sound horrid. How much of that was scloud, and how much not? No idea. Scloud is not always - if hardly ever - an accurate representation of your mix. If you are asking for an opinion using a platform that is generally innacurate, you are asking for trouble.

Cheers.


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## germancomponist (Jan 13, 2012)

I have listend only on my headphone and I would suggest you to use another/better reverb (this is sounding very cold and lifeless...) and also would work with an eq on the lower frequencies.... .


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## José Herring (Jan 13, 2012)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 13 said:


> I have listend only on my headphone and I would suggest you to use another/better reverb (this is sounding very cold and lifeless...) and also would work with an eq on the lower frequencies.... .



Yes.

But it should also be plainly pretty obvious so I wonder what he's listening back on. What kind of speakers are being used to mix? I think if we know that it would be easier to find out what went wrong here.


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## germancomponist (Jan 13, 2012)

josejherring @ Fri Jan 13 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Jan 13 said:
> 
> 
> > I have listend only on my headphone and I would suggest you to use another/better reverb (this is sounding very cold and lifeless...) and also would work with an eq on the lower frequencies.... .
> ...



Absolutely right! 

So, after two or three other posts we will again end up in another "room treatment" thread.... . 
o-[][]-o


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## José Herring (Jan 13, 2012)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 13 said:


> josejherring @ Fri Jan 13 said:
> 
> 
> > germancomponist @ Fri Jan 13 said:
> ...



I hope not. Room treatment won't fix these problems. I just need to know if he's listening back on computer speakers, ect.... I have a feeling that these major problems like these come from not having decent enough speakers or at least good headphones.


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## rickholets (Jan 13, 2012)

Thanks for the responses, guys.

To answer the questions, I am mixing in an untreated room with HS-80Ms. Also using Sony MDR-7506 headphones for reference. I understand the importance of a treated room and will be taking care of that this year, hopefully. No need to convince me that it's necessary.  

The reverb I've been using is the built in reverb from PLAY. (most of this is EWSO) Unfortunately I don't have many other choices, but I will try playing with Roomworks (stock Cubase 'verb) to get a better result.

Thanks for being more specific, Gunther. I think your feedback confirms what I was thinking.


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## germancomponist (Jan 13, 2012)

Forgive me my little joking, Jose, sure, you are right! 

But it is so often the reason: Not so good speakers and a not well treated room...... .


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## Resoded (Jan 13, 2012)

rickholets @ 13th January 2012 said:


> Thanks for the responses, guys.
> 
> To answer the questions, I am mixing in an untreated room with HS-80Ms. Also using Sony MDR-7506 headphones for reference. I understand the importance of a treated room and will be taking care of that this year, hopefully. No need to convince me that it's necessary.
> 
> ...



You don't happen to have a later version of Cubase? In that case I'd recommend Reverence rather than roomworks.


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## rickholets (Jan 13, 2012)

Resoded @ Fri Jan 13 said:


> You don't happen to have a later version of Cubase? In that case I'd recommend Reverence rather than roomworks.



Unfortunately, I am currently on Cubase 5 and cannot upgrade before I finish this project. I will keep the recommendation in mind, though. Already was considering moving up to 6 this spring.  

I am going to try to improve the mix this weekend and will share the new versions (hopefully tomorrow).


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## rayinstirling (Jan 13, 2012)

rick,

On the Soundcloud compression issue, if you don't mind allowing a download of your cue then that file will be the original and not the transcoded file.

I normally upload the full uncompressed audio file for this reason and in many ways I don't care too much about the fidelity of the streaming audio.


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## José Herring (Jan 13, 2012)

rickholets @ Fri Jan 13 said:


> Resoded @ Fri Jan 13 said:
> 
> 
> > You don't happen to have a later version of Cubase? In that case I'd recommend Reverence rather than roomworks.
> ...



Cubase 5.5 has Reverence.

That you didn't know this and that it is way better than Roomworks leads me to believe that you are at the very beginning of learning how to mix. So before you get confused by all the advice that's about to come, room treatment, ect.... I would suggest first getting antiquated with the basics of mixing.

A few questions. How do you set up your Reverb? Do you know what and EQ is for? These are the main problems I'm hearing in your demo mix wise. Reverbs not used correctly or not knowing what to use reverb for and EQ not used in a way that complements the sound but used rather drastically to try and "sculpt" a sound in a way that doesn't lead to any improvements. Common errors. Usually based on other factors rather than mixing. Like you're trying to "fix" things in the mix that actually are faults of the arrangement, composing and samples used.

José


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## rickholets (Jan 13, 2012)

josejherring @ Fri Jan 13 said:


> Cubase 5.5 has Reverence.
> 
> That you didn't know this and that it is way better than Roomworks leads me to believe that you are at the very beginning of learning how to mix. So before you get confused by all the advice that's about to come, room treatment, ect.... I would suggest first getting antiquated with the basics of mixing.
> 
> ...



After some research I found that Reverence is not included in Cubase Studio, which is what I have. It only comes with full Cubase.

I am familiar with what EQ is for. I did some EQ to individual instruments, mainly cutting a couple frequencies that stuck out a lot. As I mentioned before, with both pieces, I am currently using just the PLAY reverbs that are built into the VST. I've been going pretty dry with those, though. No external reverb is being used yet, but I have everything routed into stems before the main bus for adding effects to individual sections and instruments.

Obviously I am new to mixing. I've been using a frequency spectrum analyzer to help me see what I am hearing, and it's one of the crutches I'm trying make use of to learn this. :oops:

I appreciate you taking time to help.


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## genyus (Jan 13, 2012)

rickholets @ Fri Jan 13 said:


> josejherring @ Fri Jan 13 said:
> 
> 
> > Cubase 5.5 has Reverence.
> ...



Lol, hilarious. I think he meant acquainted.


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## rickholets (Jan 16, 2012)

Alrighty then. I'm back for more punishment. :D 

Since the first piece is shorter, I decided to toss just that one up again.

The original again, for reference: (link fixed)
http://www.box.com/s/gz791377uhdj46xz0c1m

My second try at a mix: (link fixed)
http://www.box.com/s/34s3135jqm3z9bax5047

I basically started over with the EQ, added some more reverb treatment and a bit of compression on the piano.

Assuming the second try is better, how could I improve more?


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## Dracarys (Jan 16, 2012)

The mix sounds pretty decent except for when the Glockenspiel comes in, or whatever those bells are. The string transitions need some work. Not that far off.


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## A/V4U (Jan 16, 2012)

The links don't work for me. Can you check. 
Thanks Vlad


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## rickholets (Jan 17, 2012)

A/V4U @ Tue Jan 17 said:


> The links don't work for me. Can you check.
> Thanks Vlad



I just tried all of the links and they're working for me. Sorry, I'm not sure what's going on there.

Casalena--are you referring to the second, longer piece? That one has some vibraphone at the end.


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## José Herring (Jan 17, 2012)

The links don't work for me either. I get the "oops we can't find that page" from soundcloud.


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## rickholets (Jan 17, 2012)

Sorry again. I've switched them over to box.com.

Original:
http://www.box.com/s/gz791377uhdj46xz0c1m

Second try:
http://www.box.com/s/34s3135jqm3z9bax5047


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## José Herring (Jan 17, 2012)

rickholets @ Tue Jan 17 said:


> Sorry again. I've switched them over to box.com.
> 
> Original:
> http://www.box.com/s/gz791377uhdj46xz0c1m
> ...



Nothing wrong with mix 2. Perhaps the low pizz gets a little boomy, but I wouldn't try to do anything too drastic to fix that.

There are better sting libraries. I'm looking heavy at LASS 2.0 which I think would work better with the softer intimate strings in your piece.

Personal taste, I'd set the piano a little further back. It's really bright and in your face. But again, I wouldn't do anything too drastic to fix it besides rolling off a tiny bit of some of the highs by about 1db.


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## rickholets (Jan 17, 2012)

josejherring @ Tue Jan 17 said:


> rickholets @ Tue Jan 17 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry again. I've switched them over to box.com.
> ...



I might try increasing the low freq dampening on the main reverb to help tame the bass a little more.

All libraries used were EW. I'll have to look into LASS, thanks for the recommendation.


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