# Super solid MIDI Expression pedal ?



## Usernamed (Dec 8, 2017)

Hi everyone,
I used to own a MIDI M-Audio EX-P Expression Pedal, but an overly enthusiastic player destroyed it in a single session. I'm now looking for something more durable (ideally, built like a tank) to endure being played for a long time.
Any recommendations?
Thanks!


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## synthpunk (Dec 8, 2017)

Smooth, robust, and tour tough and under $60 ...

Moog EP-3
Boss EV-5

Next level up, heavy duty long term survival, extension of your foot feel, about $100

Boss FV-500
Earmie Ball or Morley PVO


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## Usernamed (Dec 8, 2017)

That's very helpful, thanks Synth Punk


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## EvilDragon (Dec 9, 2017)

Yamaha FC7 should have been the first one mentioned, honestly.


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## mc_deli (Dec 9, 2017)

Mission pedals


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## Quasar (Dec 9, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Yamaha FC7 should have been the first one mentioned, honestly.



I 2nd this. Well engineered, solidly built & durable, smooth action... Great pedal IMHO.


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## EvilDragon (Dec 9, 2017)

One thing to note with FC7, though, is that it has a 50 kOhm log potentiometer, which is not compatible with a decent number of MIDI controllers, most of which expect a 10 or 15 kOhm linear potentiometer. Shouldn't be a huge problem either replacing the pot, or soldering some additional resistors to tame the resistance down (however logarithmic curvature would remain). Still, well worth it for such a great pedal.


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## whinecellar (Dec 9, 2017)

Yeah, the FC7 is the only one left on the market (that I can find anyway) with a decent range - all the others have a ridiculously short throw, which makes them very hard to control expression with any finesse. Baffles me.

I loved Roland’s EV-7 despite the plastic housing - it felt great, had wide range and was compatible with most keyboards - apparently it was recently discontinued. Grrr.

The Yamaha is killer but I’ve been through more than a dozen of them over the years. Mechanically they are built like tanks, but for some reason they just end up going bad for me over time. Careful taking them apart – that grease gets everywhere and it’s near impossible to get off of anything!


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## Usernamed (Dec 9, 2017)

I own an AKAI MPK88 and just read in an earlier thread that Rob Elliott found a way to reliably connect the FC7 to it so I’m messaging him to ask him if he share his point of view on this matter. (PS. I’m new here and I have to say I’m impressed by everyone’s generosity, you guys are amazing, thanks a lot!)


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## tack (Dec 9, 2017)

I just picked up the FC7 last week and if I'm ever looking for an solid instrument with which to bludgeon someone to death, it will make a fine choice.

Works with the Kontrol S88 but I did need to flip the polarity for the expression port in the Controller Editor software.


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## Rob Elliott (Dec 12, 2017)

Yamaha is the best.


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## synthpunk (Dec 12, 2017)

None of you guys find the feel of the FC-7 too "rubbery" ? That's the no. 1 complaint I hear.


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## EvilDragon (Dec 13, 2017)

Nope.


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## whinecellar (Dec 13, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> None of you guys find the feel of the FC-7 too "rubbery" ? That's the no. 1 complaint I hear.



“Rubbery” = non-slip. That’s a good thing


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## synthpunk (Dec 13, 2017)

I started on B3 so I play in my socks 



whinecellar said:


> “Rubbery” = non-slip. That’s a good thing


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## chimuelo (Dec 18, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Yamaha FC7 should have been the first one mentioned, honestly.



Indeed.
I have six of them, use 2 x all the time because I have size 12 feet and destroy those toy EV-5s, which are also good, just feels like a Yugo compared to a Cadillac.

FC-7s are wired so Ashby FX-7 II Adapters make them work on any controllers, even desktops with Pedal ins like BCF/BCR 2000s.


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## chimuelo (Dec 18, 2017)

OTOH, the very best Pedal I own is the Source Audio Reflex.
I need CV Audio and CC simultaneously and it’s multi CC too.
Big and dead on balls accurate.


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## Sami (Dec 18, 2017)

whinecellar said:


> Yeah, the FC7 is the only one left on the market (that I can find anyway) with a decent range - all the others have a ridiculously short throw, which makes them very hard to control expression with any finesse. Baffles me.
> 
> I loved Roland’s EV-7 despite the plastic housing - it felt great, had wide range and was compatible with most keyboards - apparently it was recently discontinued. Grrr.
> 
> The Yamaha is killer but I’ve been through more than a dozen of them over the years. Mechanically they are built like tanks, but for some reason they just end up going bad for me over time. Careful taking them apart – that grease gets everywhere and it’s near impossible to get off of anything!



Just bought an ev-7 today and asked, my dealership said it's not discontinued. Lets hope... fantastic pedal btw


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## Eric (Dec 19, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> Mission pedals



I’ve been extremely happy with my Mission Engineering EP-25 PRO Aero pedals. Switched the polarity for one of the 2 jacks, for compatibility with my Yamaha keyboard. The throw isn’t as long as an FC7, but it’s smooth & accurate, and feels built to last (I’ve lost count of how many FC7’s I’ve purchased & broken over the years).

https://missionengineering.com/shop-2/products/expression/multi-use-exp/ep-25-pro-aero/?v=7516fd43adaa


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## whinecellar (Dec 20, 2017)

Sami said:


> Just bought an ev-7 today and asked, my dealership said it's not discontinued. Lets hope... fantastic pedal btw



Man, what dealer? I'd order another in a heartbeat but nobody has them anymore!


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 21, 2017)

tack said:


> I just picked up the FC7 last week and if I'm ever looking for an solid instrument with which to bludgeon someone to death, it will make a fine choice.
> 
> Works with the Kontrol S88 but I did need to flip the polarity for the expression port in the Controller Editor software.


So this will work for my Komplete Kontrol 49?! :D

Nice will have to get one
Right now I have the M-Audio EX-P, but I do find that with different libraries I don't get the full range on it and so the range feels short and expression rushed :/

Might have to look at investing in a proper pedal...browsing as I read this thread


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 21, 2017)

Interesting post relating to the FC-7 with Komplete Kontrol keyboards 
https://www.native-instruments.com/...-with-the-yamaha-fc7-expression-pedal.315989/

Kinda thinking about going that route myself now


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## ckiraly (Dec 21, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> OTOH, the very best Pedal I own is the Source Audio Reflex.
> I need CV Audio and CC simultaneously and it’s multi CC too.
> Big and dead on balls accurate.



This is by far the best pedal. It does anything and everything and it does it beautifully.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Dec 21, 2017)

ckiraly said:


> This is by far the best pedal. It does anything and everything and it does it beautifully.


For the price of a Sample library yeah 

Get the feeling the OP was thinking of something cheaper..but I of course could be wrong


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## Pier (Jan 8, 2018)

Off topic... but what's the cheapest way of connecting an expression pedal to a computer?

None of my controllers have expression pedal inputs...


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## gsilbers (Jan 8, 2018)

no one into the FCB1010?


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## Garry (Nov 7, 2018)

I didn't know about the polarity issues, and just bought a FC7, and am having probably predictable problems with the Komplete Kontrol s88: when I use it for expression, it only modulates about 1/4 of the the range, and in the wrong direction! Presumably I need a polarity inverter cable to use it with the s88, or is there a way to do this with the Controller Editor? If not, anyone know of a polarity inverter cable that works with the FC7 available in Europe (I can't seem to find one with a 1/4 inch jack, only with a phono cable).


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## ckiraly (Nov 7, 2018)

Garry said:


> I didn't know about the polarity issues, and just bought a FC7, and am having probably predictable problems with the Komplete Kontrol s88: when I use it for expression, it only modulates about 1/4 of the the range, and in the wrong direction! Presumably I need a polarity inverter cable to use it with the s88, or is there a way to do this with the Controller Editor? If not, anyone know of a polarity inverter cable that works with the FC7 available in Europe (I can't seem to find one with a 1/4 inch jack, only with a phono cable).



Try: Controller Editor > Preferences > Expression Pedal > Recalibrate, Invert Range and Swap Tip/Ring


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## Garry (Nov 7, 2018)

Thanks, but I don't see this option (using version 2.2.5 (R361) of Controller Editor on a Mac). This is all I see. (I checked the Native Instruments website in case my driver is out of date, but when I try to download the driver, it tells me I have a more recent version already installed). Perhaps this is only offered on the PC version?


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## Garry (Nov 8, 2018)

Does anyone see a different screen (with the options to recalibrate the pedal) on the PC version of Controller Editor?


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## EvilDragon (Nov 8, 2018)

You need to use an older version of CE for that option to show (1.7.4). The one that still supports Kore Controllers.


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## Garry (Nov 8, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> You need to use an older version of CE for that option to show (1.7.4). The one that still supports Kore Controllers.


Thanks, that almost seemed to do it, but now, having installed 1.7.4, I can see the option to recalibrate the pedal, but I can't access it, because CE will no longer connect to the s88, so the 'connect' option to the s88 is greyed out, and so is the recalibrate option (see screenshots below). I've rebooted after the install, but that didn't solve it. I can access the s88 through Komplete Kontrol in Logic, so it's communicating with the s88, just not through CE.

To install 1.7.4, I just deleted the CE folder in the Native Instruments folder (since it wouldn't let me install an older version with a newer version already on my system) - could this be the problem - should I have uninstalled the newer version first, rather than just delete the folder?


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## Garry (Nov 8, 2018)

I also tried it in both MIDI and application mode on the s88 (shift + instance), but this also doesn't allow CE to recognize the s88 :(


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## Garry (Nov 8, 2018)

Tried reinstalling 1.7.4 again - also, didn't solve it! All still greyed out. :(


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## EvilDragon (Nov 8, 2018)

Garry said:


> I can access the s88 through Komplete Kontrol in Logic



Can you try using the MIDI controller settings within KK, maybe that'll work?

Not sure if that's only working with mk2 units or not.


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## Garry (Nov 8, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Can you try using the MIDI controller settings within KK, maybe that'll work?
> 
> Not sure if that's only working with mk2 units or not.


Assuming I'm using the correct version of KK (v2.0.3), then no, it doesn't seem like this can be controlled via the MIDI options on KK (see screenshot). 

I guess that means back to trying to find a polarity inverter cable for the FC7 then? Anyone know where to pick these up (ideally in Europe)?


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## EvilDragon (Nov 8, 2018)

Not there. In KK it shows a MIDI port icon in top right of KK GUI when you have S-series keyboard connected.


Also, your issue is not in polarity of the pedal, but the impedance and type of the potentiometer used. FC7 uses a 50 kOhm logarithmic pot, whereas great majority of other expression pedals uses 10, 15 or 20 kOhm linear pots...

So you really need that calibration procedure.


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## Garry (Nov 8, 2018)

SUCCESS!!! 

Version 1.7.4 wouldn't connect to my s88, so I tried a later version that still had the Kore Controller supports, and version 2.0.2 still has it, AND allowed me to connect to s88. I then just selected the 'recalibrate' option, and it had me push the pedal all the way down, then all the way up, and that was it! Pedal working! Yeah!

Thanks EvilDragon - the depth of your knowledge never ceases to amaze me on these things. Many thanks for helping me out. 

(just to follow up on your last point, no KK doesn't show a MIDI icon - see below, so presumably that is only for mkII keyboards).


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## Garry (Nov 8, 2018)

So, a little more testing later... the FC7 is still working (and works really well - very smooth control over expression), however, one unexpected bug - the STOP button on my s88 is flashing rapidly and arrhythmically, almost like it's receiving midi data. It still functions as a stop button, and all the other transport buttons are working too, but the incessant blinking is driving me crazy. Any thoughts what's causing it, and how to stop it?


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## chimuelo (Nov 8, 2018)

FC7s are my favorite still.
But if you really like CV + MIDI The Reflex is the apex of control, period.
5 x separate CC#’s and one out into CV Input of the Studio Electronics EXT w/ SE-02 is impressive and so easy to calibrate to taste I can just slam it down or back and apply Lag Processing so it’s modified to hit its destinations by your choice or curves and timing.
Run MIDI Into it to access 128 different configurations.
I have it matched to my Controllers performances.
I change a scene inside of a performance it follows.
A fantastic tool for live work, so in the studio you’ll speed up your workflow exponentially.


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## Garry (Nov 8, 2018)

chimuelo said:


> FC7s are my favorite still.
> But if you really like CV + MIDI The Reflex is the apex of control, period.
> 5 x separate CC#’s and one out into CV Input of the Studio Electronics EXT w/ SE-02 is impressive and so easy to calibrate to taste I can just slam it down or back and apply Lag Processing so it’s modified to hit its destinations by your choice or curves and timing.
> Run MIDI Into it to access 128 different configurations.
> ...


Thanks, yeah, I definitely looked at this, before opting for the FC7 (largely on the strength of EvilDragon's recommendation earlier in this thread - this guy really knows his stuff!). I do like the Reflex, but the FC7 is $40 and the Reflex is $220. Personally, I can't justify 6x the cost, just to control expression (which is all I'll use it for) - the extra functionality it has, for me, I don't think I'd use it. Does look good though.

The FC7 is now working great (except for that damn annoying STOP button light now blinking away on my s88 - what the hell is causing that!).


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## EvilDragon (Nov 8, 2018)

Does the stop button stop blinking if you unplug FC7? Highly doubtful this is related, though...


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## chimuelo (Nov 8, 2018)

Garry said:


> Thanks, yeah, I definitely looked at this, before opting for the FC7 (largely on the strength of EvilDragon's recommendation earlier in this thread - this guy really knows his stuff!). I do like the Reflex, but the FC7 is $40 and the Reflex is $220. Personally, I can't justify 6x the cost, just to control expression (which is all I'll use it for) - the extra functionality it has, for me, I don't think I'd use it. Does look good though.
> 
> The FC7 is now working great (except for that damn annoying STOP button light now blinking away on my s88 - what the hell is causing that!).



Totally agree, I use several FC7s but it’s MIDI exceeds most controllers costing more money, and few people know about it. Figured I plug the guys for making such a great piece of kit.
You have to know they won’t be flying off the shelves like FC7s or EV5s, so it was from the labor of love.

And yes the Dragon reigns supreme on multiple levels, and multiple dimensions.


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## Garry (Nov 8, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Does the stop button stop blinking if you unplug FC7? Highly doubtful this is related, though...



No, but I've now realized it only stops when I mouse click off the Logic screen; clicking back into Logic starts it again! :/

Happened right after I installed the 2.0.2 version of CE.


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## EvilDragon (Nov 9, 2018)

So it might be by design then, dunno.


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## Garry (Nov 9, 2018)

SOLVED!!

Thanks to Chris @ NI - there is an update in the new version of Komplete Kontrol (v2.0.5) that came out on Oct 25, and fixes a known issue of intermittent transport LED flicker on S-Series keyboards when used with Logic Pro X. 

Great - so, for anyone considering the FC7 (comes with an EvilDragon recommendation, and for what it's worth, mine too), this can now be used with Komplete Kontrol keyboards: use v2.0.2 of Controller Editor and v2.0.5 of Komplete Kontrol.


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## EvilDragon (Nov 9, 2018)

Great, you have it sorted out now!


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## Garry (Nov 9, 2018)

Final update, in case anyone is reading this thinking about using the FC7 with Komplete Kontrol: NI just advised me to now try again reinstalling v2.2.5 of Controller Editor, and sure enough, the calibration option now shows up (I know for sure it didn't when I had this version installed previously, as you can see from my screenshots earlier in the thread, but now, (since installing KK v2.0.5) it works, and the calibration option is available. 

So, to confirm: the FC7 can be used with s88 keyboards, using the latest drivers for both KK (v2.0.5) and CE (v2.2.5).


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## chimuelo (Nov 12, 2018)

FYI these adapters work for every Controller out there.
If you have a problem where calibration is difficult or you need polarizing these Ashby FC7X-II allow the very best control of FC7s on any controller.

My controller is Italian so they use Pedals from Thomann, some are OK.
But I’m spoiled by FC7s.
They calibrate from 0-127 every time. Pretty close to the immediacy of CV Audio.
I’ve used FC7s for decades. Nothing else is wide and big with as much throw.
Can’t be without them.


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## SimonViklund (May 2, 2019)

I once bought a KORG XVP-20 to use for digital composing. The output had a logarithmic curvature though so it was _impossible_ to make smooth swells (e.g. for string sample libraries) with it.

*Are there any expression pedals that have linear output and will work with my Komplete Kontrol S61 keyboard?*


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## midiman (May 7, 2019)

Has anyone here tried the https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/fp-pedal/ Studiologic FP-50? It looks like it has more range than the Yamaha FC7. Would love to know.


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## Gaffable (May 7, 2019)

An easy way to reverse the polarity of the FC7 is to get two stereo RCA adapters and connect them together the wrong way (red into black, black into red).






The photo above shows a Korg pedal, but I have done the same with my FC7 and it works perfectly with a Roland PCR-800 keyboard.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 4, 2019)

i went cheap with a Pro-Line expression pedal a while ago.

i'm using a Studiologic SL88 Studio controller.

trying to use the Pro-Line as a Wah controller and it's jumping all over the place.

what expression pedal would be compatible with the SL88?

FC7? Boss Dual?


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## EvilDragon (Jun 4, 2019)

FC7 is really awesome. I wouldn't use any other after I've tried it. I have two.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 4, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> FC7 is really awesome. I wouldn't use any other after I've tried it. I have two.



does the FC7 have adjustable data range like the Boss?


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## EvilDragon (Jun 4, 2019)

No. A good MIDI controller will have a calibration option. If not, it's always possible to change resistance of the pedal by soldering some resistors in parallel.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 4, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> No. A good MIDI controller will have a calibration option. If not, it's always possible to change resistance of the pedal by soldering some resistors in parallel.




doesn't look like the SL88 Studio has expression calibration.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 4, 2019)




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## whiskers (Jun 4, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> No. A good MIDI controller will have a calibration option. If not, it's always possible to change resistance of the pedal by soldering some resistors in parallel.


i presume the FC7 should work with an S88MK2?


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## EvilDragon (Jun 4, 2019)

Yep works perfectly.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 4, 2019)

ordered an FC-7, should get it tomorrow.

will report.


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## whiskers (Jun 4, 2019)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> ordered an FC-7, should get it tomorrow.
> 
> will report.


just got it this last weekend, haven't tried it out yet


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## Fredeke (Jun 4, 2019)

Yamaha makes good ones.


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## Hans-Peter (Jun 4, 2019)

My FC-7 has lasted me 16 years!


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jun 5, 2019)

got the FC-7.

nice pedal, but no way to calibrate the Expression data range in the pedal or my Studiologic controller.

better than the ProLine, but still unusable.

looks like Studiologic is an odd duck with expression pedal compatibility.

their models are unavailable as well.


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## chimuelo (Jun 5, 2019)

Hans-Peter said:


> My FC-7 has lasted me 16 years!



Damn you beat me.
I’ve had mine for 14.
I do have to use the Ashby Adapters on my Italian Controller but I wear a 12 in boots and stomp the hell out of these because I don’t sit when I play.

But if you really want the very best sickest Pedal ever made check out the Source Audio Reflex.

I used mine for a special gig and it does incredible feats of magic and has CV out for your Analog kit while using 5 other Expression sends.

They’re complicated but 128 presets is enough to get the job done.
I only wish it was built like the FC7.
It’s actually a higher quality metal build, very sturdy.
But I’m happier with fat bastards like the FC7.


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## ltmusic (Jan 9, 2020)

SimonViklund said:


> I once bought a KORG XVP-20 to use for digital composing. The output had a logarithmic curvature though so it was _impossible_ to make smooth swells (e.g. for string sample libraries) with it.
> 
> *Are there any expression pedals that have linear output and will work with my Komplete Kontrol S61 keyboard?*



I have the Yamaha FC7 (which has 50k a logarithmic pot) and i have the same problem. 
Any recommendation ?


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## gsilbers (Jan 9, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> no one into the FCB1010?




for those interested, i made a video a while back to assign footswitch to change articulations and also assign midi expression cc11 and cc1 to the 2 pedals on the behringer FCB1010.
i mainly did it so i can remeber to setup and it was a fast tutorial so sorry about the camera shake


the idea is that you can play with two hands the keyboard and with the foot can change from short note to long note string articulations and use one of the pedals to control dynamics. i play mostly midi guitar so this is a little more usefull than keyboard players i think...
still.. one short step towards playing live in a plaza for some change on a hat [/MEDIA]


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## ltmusic (Jan 9, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> for those interested, i made a video a while back to assign footswitch to change articulations and also assign midi expression cc11 and cc1 to the 2 pedals on the behringer FCB1010.
> i mainly did it so i can remeber to setup and it was a fast tutorial so sorry about the camera shake
> 
> 
> ...





Great idea! How it reacts as an expression pedal ?


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## yves (Jan 9, 2020)

I understand that we want to keep the price acceptable for an expression pedal but if you are willing to spend $50 more and add a USB port , check out Audiofront.net . They make a voltage to USB port for any expression pedal that you can calibrate and other cool stuff . They also make the 4 input version . The editor software is very well designed . I find that this is one of those hidden gems .


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## Ashermusic (Jan 9, 2020)

Roland EV-5 here.


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## gsilbers (Jan 9, 2020)

ltmusic said:


> Great idea! How it reacts as an expression pedal ?



its been a while but i remeber it was very sensitive so it needed some practice to "get it".


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## EvilDragon (Jan 10, 2020)

ltmusic said:


> I have the Yamaha FC7 (which has 50k a logarithmic pot) and i have the same problem.
> Any recommendation ?



FC7 actually has a linear pot, IIRC, it's the way the pedal is linked to the pot via cam that makes it feel different. 

Anyways I had my two FC7s modified by soldering some resistors to reduce the resistance to 10 KOhm. Works great with my Kurzweil PC3K8. 

On NI's keyboards there's pedal calibration option IIRC, so it will work with all pedals, 10k, 20k, 25k, 50k...

And as far as lin/log, you can always correct this by processing MIDI with some MIDI FX that reshapes MIDI CCs. Or with a Kontakt multiscript.


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## ltmusic (Jan 14, 2020)

EvilDragon said:


> FC7 actually has a linear pot, IIRC, it's the way the pedal is linked to the pot via cam that makes it feel different.
> 
> Anyways I had my two FC7s modified by soldering some resistors to reduce the resistance to 10 KOhm. Works great with my Kurzweil PC3K8.
> 
> ...



Thanks i will try it!


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## TiagoG (Feb 28, 2021)

Old thread but in case someone's listening - has anyone tried the FC7 with an M-Audio Hammer 88 successfully? Tempted to go for one.


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