# What to add to your collection of orchestral instruments.



## HM_Music (Aug 6, 2021)

Hello

Looking for something to add to my collections. Maybe you can help.
At the moment I have.
Orchestral instrument - berlin series strings/brass/wood/perc, ark 1-2.
all of cinematic studio strings\brass\woods\solo strings\piano (Bought recently and could not fully test it, but seems very good)
spitfire albion one
perfomance samples caspian brass

I have many more libraries, but I decided to mention only those that have brass\strings\woods

I want to have more choices, I think you know what I mean, but can not buy everything, so I think what to take in the first place, budget ~$700.

1. Spitfire BBSCO Pro - drew attention to this library for the course Orchestral recipes. I liked tonal percussion instruments, harp, but could not find many works with this library in youtube. Also watched the passage of Deniel James and also liked the sound of percussion.

2. AaronVenture Brass\Wood Bandle - noticed it too orchestral recipes, but not sure because there is a cinematic studio, at first glance libraries seemed similar.
What are the discounts for AaronVenture?

3. Strezov Sampling Afflatus - haven't looked into it but I noticed on the vids a lot of people are excited about it, but it's the whole budget for strings only. Would it be right to get them.

4. If NI do a sale on Audio Imperia, I'm considering it as well, what is interesting to me about this library, probably Brass instruments, it seems that from what I have does not sound so epic, especially their Low Brass patch, and size 12 horn, simply put it seems that this is what is needed if you want a sound like in typical trailers with their epic Brass parts. But even here I'm not so sure since there is a choice of talos-nucleus-jaeger, in their libraries is a bit confusing that they seem to use the same samples in different libraries. By the way hanger jaeger 4 with their vocals seems to be one more reason to get their bundle, if NI will have one as it was recently.


Feel free to suggest your options. Also welcome recommendations on what to buy in the future.
If there will be any audio and video of the finished compositions with these libraries I will be glad.


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## Snarf (Aug 6, 2021)

You should be set for life with what you have, lol.


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## HM_Music (Aug 7, 2021)

Snarf said:


> You should be set for life with what you have, lol.


I didn't say I don't have enough of what I already have. But I buy something new once in half a year, that it would be something different, a different tone of instruments inspires, besides it is a new toy.

Because deep down I want to be able to pick up strings from another place that sound different, to try them out, where one will sound better to me. It is especially important at the stage of writing, because I am not very good at music theory, I like to play different instruments, until I find what inspires me now and what sound I want.


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## jbuhler (Aug 7, 2021)

The AaronVenture series seems like it gives a bit different functionality from what you have unless you have some modeled instruments. Otherwise you have a lot of duplication with what you already have. So I’d only buy BBCSO or Afflatus if you really love the sound more than what you have already.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 7, 2021)

Aaron Venture Brass and Woodwinds can do anything from soft to loud, small to large, slow and lyrical to fast and agile, and everything in between. The only “downside” compared to traditional libraries is the performance is not baked in. You have to learn how to ride the mod wheel to get a good sound out of it.

It is also being regularly updated, so if you don’t like the tone out of the box now, check back in 6-12 months and it typically will have made dramatic improvements.


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## Robo Rivard (Aug 7, 2021)

To me, your best bet is VSL BBO (Big Bang Orchestra)!... Those libraries won't duplicate what you already have, and they are on sale right now! Full surround mic positions! With a budget of $700, you are in for a ride!





BIG BANG ORCHESTRA - Vienna Symphonic Library


Create large orchestrations in no time. Inject some inspiration into your composing process just by pressing a few notes and letting the huge sound work its magic.




www.vsl.co.at


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## Laurin Lenschow (Aug 8, 2021)

Afflatus is a beautiful collection of very specific string sounds. It fills most of the gaps you did not even realize other string libraries had. If that is something you want, you should go for it... 
I also recommend watching this video:


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## CharlieCee (Aug 8, 2021)

Yesterday I purchased Spitfire's Tundra, next up is Neo.


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## jbuhler (Aug 8, 2021)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Afflatus is a beautiful collection of very specific string sounds. It fills most of the gaps you did not even realize other string libraries had. If that is something you want, you should go for it...
> I also recommend watching this video:



I mean, yes and no. It’s a beautiful library no doubt. The poly legato is extremely well executed. But I don’t think Afflatus adds considerably to OP’s capabilities. So if OP likes the tone, then yes go for it. (That’s why I did.) But I can’t say Afflatus has allowed me to do anything I couldn’t do before, or even made it much easier. But it does have a fair amount of different flavors, so it’s useful to me in that way. But it’s a lot to pay for that do you need to be sure it’s a sound you like.


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## HM_Music (Aug 8, 2021)

About Afflarus, I'm not sure if I like or dislike its tone. I was attracted to it by the large choice of strings, especially the size, afflatus have is chamber strings, I don't have chamber strings right now.
Of the chamber strings I am considering spitfire chamber, on the other hand can buy at any time Light and Sound Chamber without much thinking about the budget.
Probably the only reason why I didn't buy a LiS Chamber is to think about buying an afflatus.
How much does the afflatus cover that area if you compare chamber strings specifically? At least if you compare it to the LiS Chamber.
The reason i have more doubts about afflatus is the soon to be released tss from impact soundworks, it's quite possible i will use these strings as a basic string and need in something else will disappear, especially if we take into account my love to japanese anime music.

Spitfire tundra is on my list of planned purchases too, but that library costs ~250 during discounts, and the discounts are very frequent, unlike the same aflatus when the discounts are once a year as I understand. Tundra I will buy when I feel a great need.

By the way I've been looking at VSL for a long time and often think about buying it, just as I've been thinking about libraries like swam modeling, I want to try it but right now I'm not really considering it, maybe I should, because I recently listened compared library to one person on the forum and I liked the VSL version the most.


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## jbuhler (Aug 8, 2021)

Afflatus isn’t complete in any of its sections. That’s one issue. It has lots of content, and it’s high quality, but each of its flavors—and there are like 4 libraries in it—lacks essential elements of a string library, legato but no shorts for instance. So it works more like a utility library where you can use it for specific tasks, but you also need other string libraries. 

I like SCS quite a lot. It’s my most used string library. I also have L&S Chamber Strings. That is a more limited library than SCS but still excellent and covers the basic articulations. Many prefer the tone and legato in L&S. VSL libraries are also excellent and very consistent. Some find the sound a bit sterile though that may be an old prejudice that’s stuck around. I’ve never tried them because of the dongle policy.


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## HM_Music (Aug 8, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Afflatus isn’t complete in any of its sections. That’s one issue. It has lots of content, and it’s high quality, but each of its flavors—and there are like 4 libraries in it—lacks essential elements of a string library, legato but no shorts for instance. So it works more like a utility library where you can use it for specific tasks, but you also need other string libraries.
> 
> I like SCS quite a lot. It’s my most used string library. I also have L&S Chamber Strings. That is a more limited library than SCS but still excellent and covers the basic articulations. Many prefer the tone and legato in L&S. VSL libraries are also excellent and very consistent. Some find the sound a bit sterile though that may be an old prejudice that’s stuck around. I’ve never tried them because of the dongle policy.



Do you have the regular version or the pro version?
The price difference is not so big during the discounts, 180euro, but I would still like to know if it is worth it.
Probably the best choice for me now is the SCS.


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## jbuhler (Aug 8, 2021)

SCS Pro, though I only ever use the stereo mixes and outriggers from it. But the stereo mixes alone are worth it to me, just from the standpoint of convenience and efficient use of RAM.


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## ScarletJerry (Aug 9, 2021)

HM_Music said:


> I didn't say I don't have enough of what I already have. But I buy something new once in half a year, that it would be something different, a different tone of instruments inspires, besides it is a new toy.
> 
> Because deep down I want to be able to pick up strings from another place that sound different, to try them out, where one will sound better to me. It is especially important at the stage of writing, because I am not very good at music theory, I like to play different instruments, until I find what inspires me now and what sound I want.


So based on what you said here, wanting something that "inspires" and is a "new toy," have you looked at Sonokinetic's offerings, or the ProjectSam series? I have Sonokinetic Capriccio, and ProjectSams OE 2 and Symphobia 2. It looks like you have your orchestral libraries covered, so maybe try a Sonokinetic phrase library, where it actually shows you the notation of the phrases? It's a great learning tool and fun to play with. Symphobia 2 will give you nice sketching tool with a great sound and very inspiring multis, chords, and Dystopian sound effects. I would not get Symphobia 1 (at lease before getting 2) because it covers mostly core orchestra sounds, and you already have those. Just a thought.

Scarlet Jerry


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## HM_Music (Aug 9, 2021)

ScarletJerry said:


> So based on what you said here, wanting something that "inspires" and is a "new toy," have you looked at Sonokinetic's offerings, or the ProjectSam series? I have Sonokinetic Capriccio, and ProjectSams OE 2 and Symphobia 2. It looks like you have your orchestral libraries covered, so maybe try a Sonokinetic phrase library, where it actually shows you the notation of the phrases? It's a great learning tool and fun to play with. Symphobia 2 will give you nice sketching tool with a great sound and very inspiring multis, chords, and Dystopian sound effects. I would not get Symphobia 1 (at lease before getting 2) because it covers mostly core orchestra sounds, and you already have those. Just a thought.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


I looked at symphobia 3 lumina, I want to take it in the future, as well as albion tundra, strezow jade, eduard tarlione era. But on the symphobia 2, not thought at all, it seems that I will not use it, I do not really like ensemble patches, self-players by the way also do not like if they are there.
I used to want to get symphobia 2 when there were no libraries at all, also if I remember correctly, I think from the interview, hiroyuki sawano used that library. Although, he used 8dio majestica for leering more, to make everything sound bigger. That was a long time ago and it's likely that there are already many better options for that cost.

As for sonokinetic I don't consider it at all, the main reason people who inspire don't use it. On the various streams, reviews, paid lessons, no one uses it. The only things I liked and bought are speeldoos, celesta, sleighbels, watchmaker, I also have Christmas gift ostinato series that I didn't like.
I also don't like the way sonokinetic looks, everything is so incomprehensible, colorful squares, circles. For example Ni action strings, ni emotive strings, everything looks much more intuitive to me. Still no desire to use it though. I like to build parts by myself in pianorole by playing on midi keyboard, using staccato/spicato/runs patches, even if it will sound worse.

Now I have spitfire chamber in my plans, even though I have orchestral libraries, with strings I always feel that something is missing a little chamber. And after chamber strings I'll probably take swam modeling, then bbcso, then afflatus. And in between I'll buy tarlione era, albion tundra, strezow jade, projectsam lumina.

And also, of course, tss, but I'm looking too far ahead, I still have time to change my mind 100 times)


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## RogiervG (Aug 18, 2021)

seems you need to see the vi doctor. you clearly have "gas"


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## HM_Music (Aug 19, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> seems you need to see the vi doctor. you clearly have "gas"


Im sorry, what?


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## RogiervG (Aug 19, 2021)

gas, gear acquistion syndrome. in short: meaning, an urge for new gear (in this case, virtual instruments) even if having enough already to achieve great things with. 
just to tease your thoughts a bit


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## Illico (Aug 19, 2021)

Do you deeply learned all your libraries? You'll be probably busy for years.
Sorry, but I don't know what to suggest.


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## HM_Music (Aug 19, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> gas, gear acquistion syndrome. in short: meaning, an urge for new gear (in this case, virtual instruments) even if having enough already to achieve great things with.
> just to tease your thoughts a bit


Spending time on the vi, I've noticed that a lot of people want more arsenal, make purchases, and don't know if they'll definitely use it.
Something new is always motivating, it can be played with and it can inspire.
A simple example, playing the ensemble patch orchestral tool draws me to some tunes, but when I switch to the ensemble patch css it changes my thoughts and ideas a bit.
It's hard for me to compare myself to many on this forum, as I'm a complete self-taught musician.
When I first bought OT Berlin it was a sudden decision due to the fact that they promised it was their first sale, though it later turned out not to be. Well maybe not promised, but that OT hardly ever made a sale is known to many, they even wrote that on their website in the FAQ.
When I got this kit I had a lot of questions and difficulties as I was not happy with the sound because I didn't have the necessary knowledge. What mics to spin? do i need reverb, how much reverb do i need? Do I need a predelay? Do I need to use compression)))))
After a while I began to better understand what to twist and so on, but no matter how much I twist, I can't get the sound I have in my head.
Then I bought a CSB, I'm not saying that their oboe or flute is better, but I can definitely say that the sound is a bit different.

But the best example for me is strings and percussion.
I won't say much about the percussion, because it's so hard to mix it for me, and it's hard to make it sound the way I want it to sound.
But I have something to say about the strings. I often want the strings to sound closer and more detailed, but I always got that distant sound. Then recently I got a CSSS and it changed a lot, if you use it as a first chair you get the sound much closer to what you want. I was also horrified to play Light I Sound Chamber Strings, it's very impressive, I get the sound I want out of the box.

TSS by Impact Soundworks is coming out soon, I have string libraries, but how can I not buy this. Still, I'm a very big fan of anime music and hiroyuki sawano probably influenced my desire to make music the most.
I've started making an instrumental album now, with what I have it sounds fine and I'm happy with the result. I don't think I need anything else. But I can't be sure until I try something else, it may well change a lot in my pattern.

However, I still understand that it's not necessary to make a lot of purchases and that it's the music that matters, not the number of libraries. That's why I created the topic in general, I decided to buy something new every year, something to motivate me. At the same time I don't want to buy just anything, I want to buy the best this time, something that many people use and that has become the main part of the pattern of many people.
BBSCO, Audio imperia (for epic trailer sound, especially their brass) seem to be discussed a lot these days.

But here the person told me to pay attention to Spitfire chamber, I should not buy it? And if it becomes my favorite strings that I will use more often than any other. If working with them I will have better ideas.

I know what you mean about having enough libraries, but that's two sides of the same coin. Maybe that is true if you use the libraries as a mockup for a real recording, which will sound better than any library. But if one uses only libraries, the limited choices can be a big problem.

I know several people who quit music, they were recommended EastWest SoundCloud. And EW libraries require more mixing knowledge, they always ended up dissatisfied with the output.
I also know a lot of stories where a person had a lot of libraries, but no one liked their music anyway.
And sometimes a person bought just one library, such as Spitfire albion one, on which he earned a lot of money.

Trying to make good music works just like any business. It requires an investment. An audio interface, a PC, a room, studio monitors, and a lot of money.
Then you also need third-party plug-ins that, well, at least speed things up.

Also, by the way, interesting point, once I asked what plugins to buy, I got the same answer, use the stock ones. Then after a while I bought gullfoss, it turned out that the same people who said I have everything, use gullfoss in every project. I honestly don't understand how someone who uses something on a regular basis can say you don't need it.
After all gullfoss is a top plugin "especially" for beginners. Now it does not give me much, but if I had this plugin a little earlier, when I did not even know what the frequency balance. 
Here's what I want to say, if some of the things I have now came a little earlier, I would be able to do a little more now than I do now.


Sorry for the long text. I am without my main monitor and am waiting for it to be fixed


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## RogiervG (Aug 19, 2021)

Well written, and i agree with you about limited choices and motivation by having new tools in your belt. I too am in the same boat, and many of us are mind you.
I too buy new tools on "frequent" intervals, trying to get inspired with new sonic options, and workflows too. And it's indeed expensive, very very expensive (especially as a hobby), a deep research is often needed before pressing the purchase button. And it's absolutely not easy, especially if people here, give answers that does not reflect their own choices (they try to imagine the right answer per question, but not what THEY would do in the end), or half truths (as you mentioned with Gullfoss).


As said, the gas comment, was just a tease/tickle on your thoughts (and mine too) 

ps:
Not saying everyone does this, or even on purpose. No. Many here are doing the best they can, no doubt. (but still, only going by recommendations on a forum, not knowing if one is telling his/her true choices and the why's, is difficult at times). Then there is a factor of personal peferences, sonically and/or workflow wise. You might like a certain tone character on strings, i might find it too harsh or too mushy etc.


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## HM_Music (Aug 19, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> Well written, and i agree with you about limited choices and motivation by having new tools in your belt. I too am in the same boat, and many of us are mind you.
> I too buy new tools on "frequent" intervals, trying to get inspired with new sonic options, and workflows too. And it's indeed expensive, very very expensive (especially as a hobby), a deep research is often needed before pressing the purchase button. And it's absolutely not easy, especially if people here, give answers that does not reflect their own choices (they try to imagine the right answer per question, but not what THEY would do in the end), or half truths (as you mentioned with Gullfoss).
> 
> 
> ...


Discounts are also decisive. This, by the way, is a very important factor.
I think if manufacturers didn't do discounts, it wouldn't make me think so much about buying in advance.
All of my planned purchases are because I want to buy them at a discount.
Next time I see a spitfire chamber with 50% off for example I will definitely buy that.
In fact, I have a list.
soothe, vertigo vsm, elysia comp, LAMP, TSS, SCS
these are from what I found necessary, not really that many, but I'm pretty confident in what I'm buying.
In the case of the berlin percussion, I only bought it because of the discount and overall I'm not very happy with it and hardly use it at all. I'll give it a second chance on my current music though, the last time I tried Berlin perc mixing skills were pretty awful


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## jbuhler (Aug 19, 2021)

HM_Music said:


> All of my planned purchases are because I want to buy them at a discount.


Understandable, but buying on discount often leads to buying because of the discount, that is, getting something because of the deal rather than because you want or need it. Or not buying something you actually need because it's not offered quite at the low price it once was. And at that point the discount starts driving your decision purchases rather than an assessment of what you want and need.

So, it seems to me that you want SCS. You've mentioned it several times. Your music might also need it. And in the great scheme of things getting it at 40% discount, which is offered regularly, and a 50% discount, which is quite rare, is the kind of thing where you are letting the discount drive your decision, much as buying the Berlin Percussion was evidently a mistake for you because you bought for the deal, not for your wants and needs. A similar analysis would go for the other things on your list.


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## HM_Music (Aug 19, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Understandable, but buying on discount often leads to buying because of the discount, that is, getting something because of the deal rather than because you want or need it. Or not buying something you actually need because it's not offered quite at the low price it once was. And at that point the discount starts driving your decision purchases rather than an assessment of what you want and need.
> 
> So, it seems to me that you want SCS. You've mentioned it several times. Your music might also need it. And in the great scheme of things getting it at 40% discount, which is offered regularly, and a 50% discount, which is quite rare, is the kind of thing where you are letting the discount drive your decision, much as buying the Berlin Percussion was evidently a mistake for you because you bought for the deal, not for your wants and needs. A similar analysis would go for the other things on your list.


That's what I meant.
But right now the discount doesn't control my decision. I've already made my decision and I'm just waiting for the best time to buy.
For example I bought Soundiron Apocalipce pro a few weeks ago, it was on the list, I knew what the library gives, got exactly what I hoped for.
It's good to have a definite plan.
The only discount that might shift priorities is probably Native Ins, when they do a very big discount on third party products.


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## jbuhler (Aug 19, 2021)

HM_Music said:


> That's what I meant.
> But right now the discount doesn't control my decision. I've already made my decision and I'm just waiting for the best time to buy.
> For example I bought Soundiron Apocalipce pro a few weeks ago, it was on the list, I knew what the library gives, got exactly what I hoped for.
> It's good to have a definite plan.
> The only discount that might shift priorities is probably Native Ins, when they do a very big discount on third party products.


Yes, I usually manage the situation by keeping a list of libraries I'm interested in and the prices I'm willing to buy them at. And then within that, I have an order in case they all come up at once, which happens with increasing regularity, even when it's not the end of November. 

The NI sales don't much affect my method, other than they often bring sales on items that don't normally go on sale, certainly not at the prices they are being offered through NI, and sometimes on products I haven't fully assessed what I'd be willing to pay because they are the kind of thing I would not buy at full price or normal sale prices. (The NI sale on Afflatus was a great example of this.)


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## HM_Music (Aug 19, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, I usually manage the situation by keeping a list of libraries I'm interested in and the prices I'm willing to buy them at. And then within that, I have an order in case they all come up at once, which happens with increasing regularity, even when it's not the end of November.
> 
> The NI sales don't much affect my method, other than they often bring sales on items that don't normally go on sale, certainly not at the prices they are being offered through NI, and sometimes on products I haven't fully assessed what I'd be willing to pay because they are the kind of thing I would not buy at full price or normal sale prices. (The NI sale on Afflatus was a great example of this.)


Yes, I have exactly the same list with prices.
1. libraries that I think are necessary.
2. libraries that "can wait", this includes albion tundra which I like the sound of, but I do not really understand how I could use it.

When I buy a TSS I know for sure that I will open a project and test the material with these strings instead of the ones I use now, compare the sound.
When I buy an albion tundra, I don't know what I will do with it. Will use it as a backing instrument or the instrument I would start with. I like to start with a piano though.
It's the piano-woodwinds that I've been loving lately. Those two instruments give the best results for ideas.
At one time I underestimated woodwinds, I was trying to get a good sound out of strings, and not using wood.
I also spent a lot on amplesound recently. I am just learning how to use it, and I have no experience with mixing, but I really enjoyed composing with it, it instantly gave me a lot of ideas.
I have a plan to buy a neural plini because I personally wrote a neural dsp and showed examples of the sound I wanted and they recommended it, I also tested the demo and I really liked it. However now I use amplesound out of the box, without using third party AMPs and even so I am very happy with the result.

I am very inspired and energized in the last two months. After being very frustrated for 2 years or more, not getting anything done and having a kind of shame about music, now I don't feel so untalented. 
I want to move on and grow on myself, everything I bought in the meantime I'm trying to understand better now.

I've started separating libraries. If I want quiet slow horn I use berlin brass, if something medium CSB, if something louder and more epic it's metropolis ark 1. I found a gap where there isn't something very aggressively epic "evil", so I think and am considering options, one of them is Audio imperia, but I'm not making the kind of music where I need it right now. That's why I moved the purchase of the brass for the future.

Now I want some intimacy, I don't know what to call this genre, lyrical epic music? So it's TSS and SCS.
These two libraries by the way will cover all the need for strings for a long time. Until maybe one day I want "something, I don't know what, but different", then maybe I will turn to afflatus. Or when I realize that I can do something not so trivial, then maybe I will turn to SampleModeling. Right now I mostly just use legato/staccato.
Although I'm already starting to use portamento\rips for bras, by the way, it sounds great with CSB.

I just really love music, so I talk about it a lot. When I gave up beatmaking and the rap industry for this kind of music, I knew that it would be very difficult and expensive. Especially considering the fact that you would essentially have to compete with people in the field with education in the future, feeling like a black sheep. And you can spend your whole life trying to achieve nothing. I try to take fewer bad thoughts into my head, setting myself up for the positives.

Sorry for the long lyrical digression)


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## jbuhler (Aug 19, 2021)

HM_Music said:


> Yes, I have exactly the same list with prices.
> 1. libraries that I think are necessary.
> 2. libraries that "can wait", this includes albion tundra which I like the sound of, but I do not really understand how I could use it.
> 
> ...


What I find with strings is that I really can't have too many string libraries. That's a joke around here, but I find it to be broadly true. And I don't mean this from a standpoint of GAS, but from actual usage. Each string library has little things it does well, and even when there is considerable overlap among libraries, having access to many makes for a string sound that is constantly fluctuating, like real strings. I would use all of my string libraries in every piece I did, if it wasn't so time consuming to do the layering so it all fits together like it was a single section. But generally I layer several string libraries in a piece (but not all the way through the piece—the layers are constantly changing). 

This works best for strings, and a largish orchestra, because sections already have many players, so you do not really hear the crossfades as one library enters and another disappears. That's not generally something you can do when you are dealing with a single player to a part, and for some reason, I find it harder to pull off with choirs than with strings, though you also can never have too many choirs.


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## HM_Music (Aug 19, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> What I find with strings is that I really can't have too many string libraries. That's a joke around here, but I find it to be broadly true. And I don't mean this from a standpoint of GAS, but from actual usage. Each string library has little things it does well, and even when there is considerable overlap among libraries, having access to many makes for a string sound that is constantly fluctuating, like real strings. I would use all of my string libraries in every piece I did, if it wasn't so time consuming to do the layering so it all fits together like it was a single section. But generally I layer several string libraries in a piece (but not all the way through the piece—the layers are constantly changing).
> 
> This works best for strings, and a largish orchestra, because sections already have many players, so you do not really hear the crossfades as one library enters and another disappears. That's not generally something you can do when you are dealing with a single player to a part, and for some reason, I find it harder to pull off with choirs than with strings, though you also can never have too many choirs.


I like the sound of the leering, only I find more problems for mixing and ram\cpu. I think if the music consists of many instruments, when we leyering the strings, we must also leering the winds and..., otherwise it will sound thin in those places.
This is not a statement, it's more of a question.

The thing that has given me an example of the sound of string leering is a video. It sounds good.



Choirs, by the way, are difficult for me to tune at all, as some sound good and the crossfades\legato transitions are very harmonious. Some libraries, on the other hand, sound "weird" at transitions. For example the chorus soundiron requiem, if you put it in the foreground of the mix, I don't like the result. I have listened to a lot of music where choir libraries have been used and always find it often inappropriate.
I like the corny sound of AA, OO, UU, mm but some libraries "for me" don't handle it well enough.
I don't have many choirs, but right now I like Ark2's choir the best(On the mixing a lot more than 8dio insolidus). It fits the mix very well, even if you put it in the foreground.
It bears repeating that I have poor choir\vocal mixing skills.


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## jbuhler (Aug 20, 2021)

HM_Music said:


> I like the sound of the leering, only I find more problems for mixing and ram\cpu. I think if the music consists of many instruments, when we leyering the strings, we must also leering the winds and..., otherwise it will sound thin in those places.
> This is not a statement, it's more of a question.


I don’t find that to be the case. The strings are a massed ensemble, the winds and brass only rarely so in the orchestra, the horns a8, or a20 an exception. So several string sections layered together is first of all simply adding to the massed effect, but secondly the calculus of samples is not that of the concert hall. Layering two 8 person violin sections does not generally sound like a 16 player section, and if you mix a small section with a larger section right you can make it sound more like a small section or more like the large section. 

In any case, you can add to the weight of the woodwinds and brass in ensemble if that’s a sound you like but I don’t find it necessary for weight or balance. I sure mileage varies on that. What I find virtually impossible due to phasing issues is layering solo players. It sounds a2.

So the calculus is 1+1=2; sometimes 1=2 when you are crossing dynamic layers on solo instruments. But 3+3≠6 and even more 8+8 ≠ 16. But layering (or stacking) does yield a different character, just not the same as adding more strings to the concert stage. 

Beyond CPU and RAM, I find the sound loses something if I layer more than about three string libraries on a part at a time. So I might have more than three string libraries loaded into a project, but it would be exceptionally rare for me to use more than three at a time. Generally it’s only two, and sometimes just one.


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## HM_Music (Aug 20, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I don’t find that to be the case. The strings are a massed ensemble, the winds and brass only rarely so in the orchestra, the horns a8, or a20 an exception. So several string sections layered together is first of all simply adding to the massed effect, but secondly the calculus of samples is not that of the concert hall. Layering two 8 person violin sections does not generally sound like a 16 player section, and if you mix a small section with a larger section right you can make it sound more like a small section or more like the large section.
> 
> In any case, you can add to the weight of the woodwinds and brass in ensemble if that’s a sound you like but I don’t find it necessary for weight or balance. I sure mileage varies on that. What I find virtually impossible due to phasing issues is layering solo players. It sounds a2.
> 
> ...


1-2 which are your favorite libraries that you leyering?
Doesn't that mean you mean only first chair+any ensamble liblary.In the example I gave from youtube, man using a lot of solo, what can you say about leyering solo+solo or solo+firstchair(although they are the same)


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## jbuhler (Aug 20, 2021)

HM_Music said:


> 1-2 which are your favorite libraries that you leyering?
> Doesn't that mean you mean only first chair+any ensamble liblary.In the example I gave from youtube, man using a lot of solo, what can you say about leyering solo+solo or solo+firstchair(although they are the same)


I layer lots of things, and it depends on the nature of the project. One might call for BSS with AROOF, and a touch of SSS or one of the 8dio libraries for portamento. Another might call for SCS and SSS. Yet another might use Tallinn, the SF first desk solo violin, Berlin Special Bows, and Tundra. Or the two sections of strings from Solstice with Tallinn and SCS. Those are some of the combinations I've used recently. As I said, I rarely layer all the libraries at the same time, but am constantly shifting, so now one library comes forward, then another. The effect should be expanding the expressive range of any one library without making it sound like you are constantly changing out your string section. It takes time to program and so I can't always do it, but I like to when I have the time.

Incidentally I started layering not to achieve an expanded expressive range per se, but because I wanted a better divisi effect. As I was then layering the non-divisi strings, I began experimenting with what I could do with it. I didn't really have enough RAM to do this with more than two string libraries at a time in the context of a full orchestra until I got the new machine.


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