# Susan Boyle - what do you think of her voice ?



## adrianallan (Apr 17, 2009)

Well, just about every other site on the net is buzzing with the mention of this lady, so why not here ? 

In case you haven't yet seen the audition, here is what the world is talking about. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lp0IWv8QZY

AND today, her version of Cry me a River has emerged from a 1999 charity CD. Please listen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXwc-i5eYdU

So, folks. What do we really think ?

Just the product of clever and cynical marketing by Simon Cowell, or a major vocal talent ?


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## bryla (Apr 17, 2009)

boring vocal. Only thing that got her attention was the fact that she is but ugly and hasn't got laid, and then people were startled that she could sing anyway. After this surprise-factor dies, people will realize just how boring her voice is - throw away their Paul Potts CD's and go listen to real singers.

I didn't vote, because I don't even think she's mediocre


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## adrianallan (Apr 17, 2009)

I didn't include anything less than mediocre because I thought that, at the least, people would think that she was _average.
_
Out of interest, Bryla, who do you really rate as a singer - from any genre or era ?


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## Hans Adamson (Apr 17, 2009)

I think she was great. Definitely better than most singers in the Eurovision Song Contest. Not at the level of Whitney Houston, but a talent. If I was her voice coach (I doubt that she has one) I would tone down the vibrato slightly, but that's a matter of taste. ~o)


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## adrianallan (Apr 17, 2009)

If all those millions of people, globally, think she is great...and she really is only average...or less...

...then Simon Cowell must be true genius of media manipulation on a global scale; almost to the point of global involuntary brainwashing.

Is that really the age in which we live in ?


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## artsoundz (Apr 17, 2009)

bryla @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> boring vocal. Only thing that got her attention was the fact that she is but ugly and hasn't got laid, and then people were startled that she could sing anyway. After this surprise-factor dies, people will realize just how boring her voice is - throw away their Paul Potts CD's and go listen to real singers.
> 
> I didn't vote, because I don't even think she's mediocre




I'm not going into detail but the lady can sing. Who cares if she is a major vocal talent. I saw her on tv and was happy for her. She impresses me as someone that has more dignity, heart and soul in her little finger than most of current crop of youngsters.

There's more to life, young Bryla, than being attractive and getting laid.


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## madbulk (Apr 17, 2009)

This is why nobody in their right mind would ever let me be a mod. I would've deleted this. The french composer thing -- I wish that were still going strong.


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## adrianallan (Apr 17, 2009)

There is something unmistakably sincere about her, in this age of media posturing and hypocrisy, jet-setting faux-save the earth environmentalists (Bono, Madonna, etc).

Most people aren't sufficiently musically intellectual to separate the voice from the story; they just respond to the whole Susan "package".

And if makes somebody's day or moves them to tears, then who are we to scoff ?


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## Rob (Apr 17, 2009)

I must be an old softie because I was moved when I saw this video, and found her voice sincere and with excellent intonation...


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## billval3 (Apr 17, 2009)

I don't think there's anything to scoff at and I wouldn't call her mediocre because that has a mean connotation. I wouldn't necessarily call her particularly good, however. Better than the average person, I guess, but no offense to her...not all that great. She especially didn't hit those low notes too well, so I'm not sure why she was even singing that song in that key (the Les Mis one). The F# was especially weak.


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## bryla (Apr 17, 2009)

adrianallan @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> Most people aren't sufficiently musically intellectual to separate the voice from the story; they just respond to the whole Susan "package".


Exactly, and when people get used to the exterior, they see that see hasn't got anything to offer, that others can do way better. Just my opinion, and you asked for it. I'm not saying that all the best are gorgeous singers that have sex all day, but her lack of both seems to be what the media is focusing on.


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## billval3 (Apr 17, 2009)

bryla @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> adrianallan @ Fri Apr 17 said:
> 
> 
> > Most people aren't sufficiently musically intellectual to separate the voice from the story; they just respond to the whole Susan "package".
> ...



I think it's asinine that people would assume looks have anything to do with vocal ability (or instrumental, for that matter).


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## Elfen (Apr 17, 2009)

I like the second link more. The major tv praise and the reactions thing (the face of Simon at the end of the song was really funny) and the over the top vibrato was a bit mechanical, but stress must have it's effect too. 

It was good but the song choice for the show help put her on a "Heh you'd never thought I would sing something profound" like the night and day effect. She's all homely and funny and the second after it's another voice totally. I was asking myself if it was the same girl. But heck it work for the show.

The second link is really good I think.


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## bryla (Apr 17, 2009)

I don't assume looks has anything to do with vocal ability, but her looks gave the audience the surprise of her some ability to sing


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## adrianallan (Apr 17, 2009)

Of course it's good to have the whole range of opinions - what a boring world if we all agreed.

Maybe it all boils down to the whole X Factor issue, that beyond a certain point, technique is not the be-all and end-all. 

And in the case of Bob Dylan, the X-Factor almost totally compensates for traditional musical values (pitch, tone quality, etc). My argument with Dylan (of course a totally different act entirely), was that his musical deficiencies could never be made up by an excess of X-factor, in my opinion.

On the subject of the piece being pitched too low for her, I'm inclined to agree - because on the Sibelius site, somebody else said that too, and as an untrained singer, who am I to argue ? 

BUT In Susan's case, the X-factor (which to me was the sincerity and conviction in the performance) made up for any very small deficiencies.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 17, 2009)

I think she's hot. And talented. I was moved.


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## billval3 (Apr 17, 2009)

adrianallan @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> Of course it's good to have the whole range of opinions - what a boring world if we all agreed.
> 
> Maybe it all boils down to the whole X Factor issue, that beyond a certain point, technique is not the be-all and end-all.
> 
> ...



I think it's great that she's using her musical abilities and expressing herself in a sincere way. I just don't think there's any reason for here to be a "sensation," as it were.

Was she bad? No. Would I hire her? No. Maybe as part of a choir if I knew she could read and blend well, but not as a soloist.


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## adrianallan (Apr 17, 2009)

> Was she bad? No. Would I hire her? No. Maybe as part of a choir if I knew she could read and blend well, but not as a soloist.



Do you think that it's a bit like mass hysteria how so many people have been touched by her performance - when it left you luke-warm - ie. they leave their ability to make a musical judgement behind and are just swept away by the story and the image ?

What else can explain such mass adulation ?


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## lux (Apr 17, 2009)

madbulk @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> This is why nobody in their right mind would ever let me be a mod. I would've deleted this. The french composer thing -- I wish that were still going strong.



i just made free a place...thats your occasion :mrgreen:


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## billval3 (Apr 17, 2009)

adrianallan @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> > Was she bad? No. Would I hire her? No. Maybe as part of a choir if I knew she could read and blend well, but not as a soloist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wasn't aware of the story till this afternoon, but I'll take your word for it about the mass adulation. I think people that the people who are feeling this way probably:

a. like a good "underdog" story
b. don't really have all that much sophistication when it comes to musical judgment

I think people tend to like what they like based on:

a. what their friends like
b. what is marketed well

Sorry if that's too cynical. I wonder if these same people would like this woman's voice at all if they just heard her on a CD. Forget about technique, would they even like her style of singing?


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## lux (Apr 17, 2009)

btw that show was terrible and fake to me.


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## c0mp0ser (Apr 17, 2009)

Firstly, I think her voice is excellent. And she's real.

Not to be a buzz-kill, but the fact is, this is a product of genius and innovative marketing. It showcases the power of clever editing, adding applause, and most of all... the power of inspirational instrumental music.

Am I the only one who senses a level of clever editing, cuts to reactions that occurred at different moments in the show and additional audience applause?

The uplifting instrumental of the theme at the end, when they were offering their comments, adds a LOT to how people react to this video.

That's all... but I think it's all great. She's great to begin with. She will be a huge success for her and the Simon Cowell enterprise.

But I ask this question: If there was just a single shot of her, with no applause, and no cuts to reactions, would this video have been the success it is?

hmmmmm

Mike


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## Illuminati (Apr 17, 2009)

I don't care what she's a product of. She obviously has incredible talent. Turn down the ego blinders and have an honest listen.


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## Niah (Apr 17, 2009)

I thought she was good 

But like Hans I didn't like the overused vibrato and there's obvious things that can be improved. But now that she was "discovered" she has that oportunity for that.

And yes people like the underdog thing, I know I do. To me this is not just about having a good voice or not, it's about overcoming the adversaties.

Unfortunately we don't all have access to the same oportunities.

TV producers know this and it was pretty much a very well planned move on their part to have this woman which to look at her you don't except much and she just happens to represent probably the majority of the so called "TV housewife audience" who watches this show.

But hey I never watched a full show of this all I know are those famous audition videos so probably Im missing the point..


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## billval3 (Apr 17, 2009)

Illuminati @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> I don't care what she's a product of. She obviously has incredible talent. Turn down the ego blinders and have an honest listen.



Are you serious? Are you just baiting us? What did you find incredible about her?


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## Jaap (Apr 17, 2009)

I think she is a nice singer, specially if she is not schooled and I think she surely has talent, but she is not a miracle or amazing and I hate it that people hype it because she is not the normal "standard" looking. There is a lot of talent in every layer of society, but ths "awww look at this poor ugly woman" thing is rediculous. 

I hope for her she gets some nice options, schooling and a happy life :D


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## Illuminati (Apr 17, 2009)

Just because you've heard better doesn't mean you have to demean her gift which isn't up to par with your conservatory ideals. If so many novice listeners think she's great and they felt "Touched", maybe it's time you take some notes on the angularities of musical perception. 

Besides what's the harm in having 12 year olds be exposed to something of a little more substance. A little variety....


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## bryla (Apr 17, 2009)

Illuminati @ Sat Apr 18 said:


> If so many novice listeners think she's great and they felt "Touched", maybe it's time you take some notes on the angularities of musical perception.


Because, with what's on tv these days, novice listeners are rarely to never exposed to quality in different genres as opera, symphonic or jazz-related.


Illuminati @ Sat Apr 18 said:


> Besides what's the harm in having 12 year olds be exposed to something of a little more substance. A little variety....


Because, I personally would hold 12 year olds up to a higher standard.


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## lux (Apr 17, 2009)

was the music under that audition, including voting, added after the show?


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## billval3 (Apr 17, 2009)

Illuminati @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> Just because you've heard better doesn't mean you have to demean her gift which isn't up to par with your conservatory ideals. If so many novice listeners think she's great and they felt "Touched", maybe it's time you take some notes on the angularities of musical perception.
> 
> Besides what's the harm in having 12 year olds be exposed to something of a little more substance. A little variety....



1. I've never been to a conservatory.
2. I'm not trying to "demean her gift." 

I think it's good that she's using what she's got and I think that people should generally be able to express themselves artistically without worrying about being judged. What I am primarily responding to is the sensationalism involved with this whole thing.

3. Being able to understand how a novice listener hears music may be a good thing, but that does not change whether or not she is an "incredible talent" as you put it. If you said she's talented, I might say it's possible. But INCREDIBLE? Isn't that demeaning the talent of all of the truly gifted and hardworking (and real) singers that are out there?


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## Fernando Warez (Apr 17, 2009)

Rob @ Fri Apr 17 said:


> I must be an old softie because I was moved when I saw this video, and found her voice sincere and with excellent intonation...



Actually, she sings like in the old days when singers had some kind of classical back ground or vocal training if you will... as oppose to singers we see now a days. I think its a little sad that the younger generation cant appreciate the old ways when it comes to singing.

Very refreshing and she's a natural. 

As for her vibrato, i would say nerves is probably the reason why she over did it. Just listen to the second link from her recording and you can see the vibrato is not a problem.

I think she has the perfect voice for musicals like we see on Broadway etc... She'll find work easy if she wants to.

edited: I've listened again to her recording more closely and i too think she could ease down on the vibrato. But her real flaw as a singer, and it's technical one, is that her lows are not place and secure yet. I hope she can find a good vocal coach who can spot this. Her vibrato issues(if we can call it that) will go way naturally as soon as she secure those lows. And it should be really easy for her but she also need to be aware of this. The voice has to homogeneous and solid on the whole register. She almost sing like a pro. I'd say She's 98% there. It remarkable. 

Aslo, i hope she can meet someone who will kiss her a few times to completely free her voice. :twisted: 0oD :twisted: 0oD :twisted:


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## choc0thrax (Apr 17, 2009)

She's pretty good. I could swear she looks older than 47.


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## billval3 (Apr 17, 2009)

Here are some other renditions for comparison.

Elaine Paige, who Susan mentioned on the show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6555x_-_Ww

Ruthie Henshall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pScod6sfNpw

These are both in the same key as Susan's performance. I'm not necessarily a big fan of these particular singers, by the way, I just thought a comparison might be enlightening.


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## DKeenum (Apr 17, 2009)

I think she is good enough, and I think the story is great! :D "Feel good" stories like this inspire. Even if she doesn't go further, at least she'll have her 15 min.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 17, 2009)

She is only a "good" singer technically but then again that is true of Liza Minnelli, Madonna, Britney Spears, and a lot of other stars.

She sings from her heart and is surprisingly charismatic.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 17, 2009)

Pity 'bout the boat race.


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## Jaap (Apr 18, 2009)

Illuminati @ Sat Apr 18 said:


> Just because you've heard better doesn't mean you have to demean her gift which isn't up to par with your conservatory ideals. If so many novice listeners think she's great and they felt "Touched", maybe it's time you take some notes on the angularities of musical perception.
> 
> Besides what's the harm in having 12 year olds be exposed to something of a little more substance. A little variety....



I won't deny she is talented and yes I have been to a conservatory and I heard far more worse then her, but I don't think she is extremely gifted or a miracle.

It is nice that a lot of listeners are touched and I think a lot has to do with it that it is nice to see that also not conservatory people can achieve amazing things on this front and I guess it is a sort of "fairy tale" like thing.

What I don't like that they hype it like it IS a miracle. It is simply not. She is a good singer who could have been maybe extraordinary if she was picked out 30 years ago by a good teacher, but now she is a good singer with a lot of potential still, but her voice has already physically reached its highest point.
I think it is a shame that they hype things like things like this, because for me it all looks like: hey look! ugly people have talent people as well. 
Thats true and that should be common knowledge that talent goes through all levels of society and is not strictly bound by social status. For me it feels like they don't give her the respect she really deserves. She should have respect for her voice and not for the fact that she is 47 year old single who has never been kissed with a good voice.


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## kid-surf (Apr 18, 2009)

I think she is, just "ok"...

Her technique, just "ok"...

Her tone, just "ok"...

Frankly, I'm shocked so many feel she is great. I honestly felt like this woman was a plant. The dude last year, or a couple years ago, that guy moved me. Not this woman. I mean, she's not even that ugly, it's not like she looks like Lux. :D 

Having said that, the company my wife works for (the London office) represents her (as they rep the show), so I don't want to talk crap on a client. 

This, to me, is about a shitty world climate in which folks want good news. This to me proves the very reason why the Hollywood screenplay template works on big feel good movies. And that is the most fascinating aspect of this ordeal...to me.


But I don't wanna argue about it...my opinion is my opinion. I wish her the best. Hey maybe Folmann will bone her! Should I try and get her digits for you?


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## Illuminati (Apr 18, 2009)

I still feel like you are substituting "gifted talent" with "virtuoso". 

Based on nonsense like this:

"Her technique, just "ok".."

"Her tone, just "ok"... "

GIVE ME A BREAK. Nitpicking. Dexterity fades, integrity remains the same. What about the sum of the parts. The total design, the listeners.

Her looks are irrelevant, her age is not. She is a role model for a new audience. It's a miracle.


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## Fernando Warez (Apr 18, 2009)

kid-surf @ Sat Apr 18 said:


> I think she is, just "ok"...
> 
> Her technique, just "ok"...
> 
> ...



Really? >8o You were moved by that guy and you think she is just OK? :? Now really don't get that! I mean i think you need to re watch that video.





> But I don't wanna argue about it...my opinion is my opinion. I wish her the best. Hey maybe Folmann will bone her! Should I try and get her digits for you?



Folmann need to get out a of the studio once in a while. :lol: Or he's a dog! :lol:


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## adrianallan (Apr 18, 2009)

If it's cheered some people up, then that's got to be a good thing.

What I do find slightly worrying is the level of hysteria - the media seem to be able to whip the public into a frenzy, like they did over Princess Diana's death. 

And now, with the net and communications being what they are, this is a *global* media.

I wonder...is this all an experiment to see if the whole world can think the same way at any one time ? 

Paves the way for global government rule !


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## Dave Connor (Apr 18, 2009)

The whole thing just has that quality of a popular phenomenon. She's not a phenomenal singer but she has that intangible that can be lacking in the greatest of singers: heart. Even so when she hits certain notes at certain points it's just perfect.

Maria Callas is still considered by many the greatest soprano of the modern age even though it's doubtful she could get a single gig in a major opera house if working today. Pitch issues alone would probably prevent that. 

Sometimes it's something extra-musical that makes the music.


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## Illuminati (Apr 18, 2009)

Dave Connor @ Sat Apr 18 said:


> The whole thing just has that quality of a popular phenomenon. She's not a phenomenal singer but she has that intangible that can be lacking in the greatest of singers: heart. Even so when she hits certain notes at certain points it's just perfect.
> 
> Maria Callas is still considered by many the greatest soprano of the modern age even though it's doubtful she could get a single gig in a major opera house if working today. Pitch issues alone would probably prevent that.
> 
> Sometimes it's something extra-musical that makes the music.



This is pretty much where I stand on it.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Apr 18, 2009)

First link, the live performance wasn't all that: excessive vibrato, but the second link: studio cover was better.

The whole thing is hyped, networks need hype and the whole clip really looked staged.

Of course talent and looks are two different things. I feel for for her... but she's no Edith Piaf or Ella Fitzgerald or Aretha Franklin...

ps: Madonna was never ever close to the "good singer" attribute: she plain sucks...


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## Hans Adamson (Apr 18, 2009)

Patrick de Caumette @ Sat Apr 18 said:


> ... but she's no Edith Piaf or Ella Fitzgerald or Aretha Franklin...


You are right. - She is Susan Boyle! Piaf is no Ella. Ella is no Aretha. Susan Boyle is Susan Boyle. She moved more people with her singing in one performance than most professional singers will in their whole career. Go Susan, go! 8)


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## lux (Apr 19, 2009)

I would say that "the autthors" of the show moved more people. She's playin the role.

I mean, i was moved watchin Ray but never considered Jamie Foxx to be one of the greatest blues/soul artist of the entire history.

Its fiction, its supposed to move, its fun, but its still fiction.


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## lux (Apr 19, 2009)

Thats second time you hit on that key. Even an average psychologist would say that you aspire to be that kisser.


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## TheoKrueger (Apr 19, 2009)

> Susan Boyle is the ugly duckling who didn't need to turn into a swan; she has fulfilled the dreams of millions who, downtrodden by the cruelty of a culture that judges them on their appearance, have settled for life without looking in the mirror.
> This is a huge constituency, and it is weary of being disparaged. Women need an avenging force like Susan Boyle. No matter how brave, strong or resourceful they are, they get punished for not being glamorous; for being ordinary; careworn. At best they are treated as if they are invisible, at worst they are regarded as freaks. Which is what the TV audience did with Ms Boyle until she started to sing.



http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Susan_Boyle

(I honestly have no idea what Susan Boyle is doing in Wikiquote together with Socrates and Plato, but there she is :- )

I wish her the best of luck and may her dreams come true.


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## david robinson (Apr 19, 2009)

hi,
this show is the yang to American Idol's ying.

yes, and it was staged.


not to say the woman can't sing.
let's face it, there are more ppl around that look like her than the little sweeties that inhabit Idol.

fame for the rest of us.

DR9. (now where are my ugly pills........hmmmm).


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## PolarBear (Apr 19, 2009)

adrianallan @ Sat Apr 18 said:


> If it's cheered some people up, then that's got to be a good thing.
> 
> What I do find slightly worrying is the level of hysteria - the media seem to be able to whip the public into a frenzy, like they did over Princess Diana's death.
> 
> ...



I couldn't have said that better!!!

It's a bit like in "The Perfume"! It's shocking so many people fall for what is clearly simply well done TV footage. You could move masses with even little less than that and utter garbage. WOW. That "experiment" showed it best yet!

PS: Just for clarification, I'm not saying she's a bad singer. But all this happening around it, comeon, there gonna be like thousands of other maybe uglier looking singers who could sing that well! And it's not worth a single news for 99,99 percent of them!


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## choc0thrax (Apr 19, 2009)

adrianallan @ Sat Apr 18 said:


> If it's cheered some people up, then that's got to be a good thing.
> 
> What I do find slightly worrying is the level of hysteria - the media seem to be able to whip the public into a frenzy, like they did over Princess Diana's death.
> 
> ...



As soon as I saw this youtube clip I started building myself a bomb shelter for the inevitable wars that will follow. Just need to find a way to get wireless internet down here so I can still do my hourly visits to http://www.prisonplanet.com/


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## Hans Adamson (Apr 19, 2009)

choc0thrax @ Sun Apr 19 said:


> adrianallan @ Sat Apr 18 said:
> 
> 
> > If it's cheered some people up, then that's got to be a good thing.
> ...


choc0,
What is that website?? They advertise a book claiming that Obama is trying to transform the U.S. into a new Nazi germany. >8o


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## choc0thrax (Apr 19, 2009)

That's Alex Jones' website. He is basically an expert at looking worried and sweaty.


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## Illuminati (Apr 19, 2009)

Yeah there's some new strand of journalism going on now. Journalist's making careers off pointing out how corrupt fellow journalist are. Always hedging against the house. They can go on for years about it, what a waste of precious life.


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## Fernando Warez (Apr 19, 2009)

Well Alex Jones can be a sensationalist and a fear monger and he has his handlers too. he basically the leader on the control opposition. But he come up with some good stuff now and then. I recommend The Obama deception. I think he's pretty much spot on on that one, although i didn't have the time to research every points he makes.

What i find even more stupid than Alex Jones followers is those who believe Obama really represent change. ...Well i guess there is truth in that silly slogan after all. Because small change is all thats gonna be left for average Americans now that he has given everything to his banker friends. :roll:


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## Fernando Warez (Apr 19, 2009)

adrianallan @ Sat Apr 18 said:


> If it's cheered some people up, then that's got to be a good thing.
> 
> What I do find slightly worrying is the level of hysteria - the media seem to be able to whip the public into a frenzy, like they did over Princess Diana's death.
> 
> ...



No! They did that with Obama. 

But the real big experiment has been going on for 40 years and it's called global warming. :wink:


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## adrianallan (Apr 19, 2009)

Are you guys 911 Truthers too ?

I was thinking of starting a thread on that too, to guage the opinion of musicians, as most people I speak to nowadays suspect that there was prior knowledge/ involvement by Bush/Cheney to drum up support for a never-ending (phoney) War on Terror/ war for oil and gas etc.


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## Fernando Warez (Apr 19, 2009)

adrianallan @ Sun Apr 19 said:


> Are you guys 911 Truthers too ?
> 
> I was thinking of starting a thread on that too, to guage the opinion of musicians, as most people I speak to nowadays suspect that there was prior knowledge/ involvement by Bush/Cheney to drum up support for a never-ending (phoney) War on Terror/ war for oil and gas etc.



It's gonna fall on def ears if you start a tread about that here. But yea, 911 is a big lie. This one is really a no brainer. But it's beyond bush and Cheiney. Although I'm Cheiney was involved.


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## adrianallan (Apr 19, 2009)

> It's gonna fall on def ears if you start a tread about that here.



Aren't musicians supposed to be more broadminded and accepting of new theories than the sheep-like general public ?


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## Fernando Warez (Apr 19, 2009)

adrianallan @ Sun Apr 19 said:


> > It's gonna fall on def ears if you start a tread about that here.
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't musicians supposed to be more broadminded and accepting of new theories than the sheep-like general public ?



I use to think that but its a misconception i think.

And the other hand, musicians who works with sequencers know what a sequence is so they should know that only a pre arrange sequence of explosives, like in a control demolition, can bring a building down like WTC7. And that this phenomena can not be reproduce randomly anymore than you can write a symphony by throwing rocks at a piano. :wink:


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## Niah (Apr 19, 2009)

adrianallan @ Sun Apr 19 said:


> > It's gonna fall on def ears if you start a tread about that here.
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't musicians supposed to be more broadminded and accepting of new theories than the sheep-like general public ?



Yes and No.

I don't believe that musicians are any different than anyone else just because they make music or that musicians belong to this special category that set them apart from the rest of the other "mortals".

Not that I think that anyone suggested that here.

I believe that there are open-minded people and not so open-minded people in this world, and these people can happen to be musicians or not.


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## Illuminati (Apr 19, 2009)

It's foolish for people to think the CIA would release any credible information about attacks during a time of war. Isn't it?

I'd like to hear the truth about what brought down building seven, but not from someone with extreme religious bias. But we won't know that till the wars die off. I still frequent his show though. What I respect about him is that he won't lie down to this nasty state of affairs (much like a musician) and he knows that what's going on with kids/elderly across the board is unacceptable. He also has decent taste in music.

Thing I don't like is that he's a gold salesman, has religious bias, anti medicine, anti big gov (we all know cowboys provide fair justice???), anti science, sensationalist, has a world coming to an end show but is spending tons of money on new studios etc..., doesn't have anything educational on his show as far as real self-sufficiency. Always has the same guests on and you never really hear anything you can point blank identify as the truth instead you just hear their side of it. He says I have the documents, yeah but what perspective do you have on the data?

One thing I find really horrific is the Active Denial System. But that's not something I heard about on his show.


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## choc0thrax (Apr 19, 2009)

Hmm from youtube singer to 9/11 conspiracies in 2 pages... I'm pretty good.


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## Niah (Apr 19, 2009)

wow I should have read that this thread was deviating to 911...I thought your post was related to susan boyle thing ...oops

anyway I think there are so many threads about 911 already, I suggest you do a search

but it's your call 8)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 19, 2009)

Susan Boyle works for the CIA.


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## Illuminati (Apr 19, 2009)

the


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## madbulk (Apr 19, 2009)

Trigger happy mod madbulk. 
Sounding pretty tasty right about now, eh there?


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## Waywyn (Apr 23, 2009)

Sorry, to attach one more post to this discussion, but I started writing my previous post without watching all of the video ...

... now having watched the whole video and especially when I was watching the little scene from 6:06 - 6:10 I don't even understand why such a thread exists at all.

This woman probably has her most happiest moment in her whole life and we discuss about if she can sing or not .... kinda of a little tiny bit of shame on us.


I can only repeat what I wrote before:

Some composers approaching music as some physicists trying to decribe love with a mathematical formula ...


Now, stone me to death!!


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## billval3 (Apr 23, 2009)

Waywyn @ Thu Apr 23 said:


> Sorry, to attach one more post to this discussion, but I started writing my previous post without watching all of the video ...
> 
> ... now having watched the whole video and especially when I was watching the little scene from 6:06 - 6:10 I don't even understand why such a thread exists at all.
> 
> ...



I'm not going to throw anything, I just think you're missing the point of our reaction. I wouldn't normally think it's a good idea to pick this woman apart. My reaction is to the sensationalism that has surrounded her performance. Even trained people here have commented about how great her performance was, which I simply can't agree with.

If people were simply saying, "Good for her...she's expressing her musical gifts and showing people that looks have nothing to do with it" then that would be perfectly all right by me. So it's not about scientifically dissecting everything we listen to. I agree with you that we should NOT do that.


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## Thonex (Apr 23, 2009)

I'm a sucker for underdogs and triumph against all odds. I'll take an ounce of feeling over a pound of technique any day... and her feeling and honesty is undeniable. Her technique is very good too... not virtuosos... but still.

I was moved :D


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## Waywyn (Apr 23, 2009)

billval3 @ Thu Apr 23 said:


> Waywyn @ Thu Apr 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, to attach one more post to this discussion, but I started writing my previous post without watching all of the video ...
> ...



Hey 

Well I think I didn't miss the point. I think lots of pro guys here said that they liked her performance because they see the whole thing, not just isolating her and put everything else away.


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