# Spitfire on the best orchestral reverb



## Fleer (May 28, 2017)

https://www.spitfireaudio.com//product-focus/what-is-the-best-reverb-for-orchestral-samples/


----------



## Parsifal666 (May 28, 2017)

Cool article I mostly use QL Spaces myself (with Valhalla Vintage here and there). But I've been putting off running a Pro-R demo, and now I see that I should change that, thanks for the link Fleer!


----------



## wbacer (May 28, 2017)

Interesting to hear all of those reverbs side by side, too bad they didn't have a hardware Bricasti on hand.


----------



## James Marshall (May 28, 2017)

I'd better start saving for a TC6000 then 

I wonder if the exact same conclusions would have been drawn if it was a "blind" testing? It'd be interesting if Jake demo'ed the reverbs without letting Chris know which was which, like trying to pick out a fine wine from the cheaper ones!


----------



## erica-grace (May 28, 2017)

wbacer said:


> Interesting to hear all of those reverbs side by side, too bad they didn't have a hardware Bricasti on hand.



I was thinking the exact same thing.

Also, would have liked to have heard the Relab 480


----------



## tack (May 28, 2017)

James Marshall said:


> like trying to pick out a fine wine from the cheaper ones!


I very much agree with this analogy. To the extent that the psychology of wine tasting has been studied, it's consistently shown that perceived cost (whether real or not) _significantly _influences the taster's enjoyment of even the most veteran sommeliers. The fact that an audio engineer (or composer, as the case may be) should prefer a $16K reverb if they know that's what they're listening to isn't too surprising. If the listening conditions were properly double blinded and he preferred the TC6000 to a statistically significant frequency, now we're onto something.

But such a video would surely be boring to watch. 

And to be fair to Christian, his main point was that if you want to sound like other film scores, the TC6000 is the thing to use, regardless of whether it's "better."


----------



## tack (May 28, 2017)

They commented on ValhallaRoom having "a bit of fizz" and earlier said that "it's all about the tail." ValhallaPlate is the thing to try instead. No carbonation -- smooth as silk.


----------



## Jack Weaver (May 28, 2017)

James Marshall said:


> I'd better start saving for a TC6000 then


You can get used 6000's Mki for about $4K on the used market. At least that's the going price for the 8AES i/o version. The analog i/o version is very hard to find. Studios have scooped them up. 

It has the same reverbs as the new silver mkii. BTW, You have to have AES i/o on your audio interface.

Anyway, that's what I did about 4 years ago.

.


----------



## Wunderhorn (May 28, 2017)

Is anybody using Logic's Space Designer? It rarely gets a mention whenever there is talk about reverbs. I wonder why.


----------



## ComposerWannabe (May 28, 2017)

I mean I know it's for the sake of being provocative. But, seriously? :D
"_they discuss whether a $16,000 reverb is really 320 times better than a $50 one._"


----------



## ComposerWannabe (May 28, 2017)

I mean I know it's for the sake of being provacative. But, seriously? :D
"_they discuss whether a $16,000 reverb is really 320 times better than a $50 one._"


----------



## lp59burst (May 28, 2017)

ComposerWannabe said:


> I mean I know it's for the sake of being provacative. But, seriously? :D
> "_they discuss whether a $16,000 reverb is really 320 times better than a $50 one._"





ComposerWannabe said:


> I mean I know it's for the sake of being provocative. But, seriously? :D
> "_they discuss whether a $16,000 reverb is really 320 times better than a $50 one._"


I echo what you said...


----------



## JPQ (May 28, 2017)

Wunderhorn said:


> Is anybody using Logic's Space Designer? It rarely gets a mention whenever there is talk about reverbs. I wonder why.


I also want know somehow i like Ni Guitar rig Reflektor more sounds more airy i feel but i want know if someone which is pro not superbeginer like me uses Logic Space Designer? and non creative reverbs side i mean. creative side even these other Logic reverbs can be used creative uses are much wider subject than nice sounding virtual hall/room.


----------



## Mike Fox (May 28, 2017)

Wunderhorn said:


> Is anybody using Logic's Space Designer? It rarely gets a mention whenever there is talk about reverbs. I wonder why.



I used it all the time until I got Spaces. I don't think people mention it anymore, because it's kinda been left in the dust for a lot of people.


----------



## jamwerks (May 28, 2017)

Is SF affiliated in any way with TC? Where did they get the $16k figure? That's also for 4 stereo reverbs not just 1. We're in 2017 and in a serious "best reverb shoot-out", a Bricasti isn't even part of it? With all do respect SF guys, that's not very serious imo.

VSS4 is much better than VSS3, yet they keep speaking of it? And VSS3 in not true stereo, so who would use it on a stereo source? M4000's (which have VSS4) can be had for about $500.


----------



## Fleer (May 28, 2017)

Quite interesting that VRoom is mentioned but VVintageVerb is not, though it includes some of those Lexicon style algorithms. My personal favorites for orchestral are FabFilter Pro-R and EastWest Spaces.


----------



## Fab (May 28, 2017)

I want to know what the 'lush verb' is (from spitfire libraries)

Also, when Jake puts 2 reverbs on at the same time, is he doing it on the same bus. So one verb gets fed through the next?


----------



## tack (May 28, 2017)

Fab said:


> I want to know what the 'lush verb' is (from spitfire libraries)


It's a convolution reverb. I'm not quite sure where the IR is from (it's _not _Air Lyndhurst). A while ago I extracted it from the nki from Albion One and experimented with other instruments. It's got an extremely long tail (almost 5 seconds) and the space is in general quite large, but it didn't otherwise knock my socks off.


----------



## constaneum (May 28, 2017)

For reverb, do u guys normally tune down the dry input signal and increase the wet signal a fair bit ? just curious.


----------



## synthpunk (May 28, 2017)

The most effective thing you can do is assign the verb to an auxilary in Pre fader listen (PFL) and then it adjust to taste on the send knob, fader, and return.

Christian and Jake are just sharing their opinion with what they have access to, no need for ruffled feathers if your favorite was not mentioned. Reverb is a very personal thing and I'm sure everyone here has their own favorite.


----------



## afterlight82 (May 29, 2017)

There's a few small misnomers (reverb plugin on insert vs send is the same, if the level being shown to the algorithm is the same i.e. same input level and mix, all else being equal it doesn't sound better than a send). And the prior poster who mentioned blindness being very important in testing such things is totally right as confirmation bias is an awfully strong thing. If you've spent big bucks you're gonna hope to hear it as better. Who wouldn't?

That said these are two gents who very very much know their stuff in terms of what they are hearing, and I know quite a few mixers who favor marrying the Air room with the TC 6000...but who might lean lexicon 960 for Abbey 1. It's just a particular flavor. Certainly a lot of RCP and related stuff sees a lot of Bricasti as Alan Meyerson has 6. Know a lot of lexicon 480 devotees.

Exponential Audio R2 is popular too...


----------



## jamwerks (May 29, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Christian and Jake are just sharing their opinion with what they have access to...


Isn't it rather: "What's the best reverb"?


----------



## Joram (May 29, 2017)

Though the TC6000 is technically very very good, I still and often prefer the 480. And the Relab version is not bad at all. Not at all!


----------



## SillyMidOn (May 29, 2017)

Ha! They used the demo version of the Valhalla which does not make it a fair comparison, as in the demo version the plugin fades out every 45 sec.


----------



## Parsifal666 (May 29, 2017)

tack said:


> It's a convolution reverb. I'm not quite sure where the IR is from (it's _not _Air Lyndhurst). A while ago I extracted it from the nki from Albion One and experimented with other instruments. It's got an extremely long tail (almost 5 seconds) and the space is in general quite large, but it didn't otherwise knock my socks off.



That's a SF feature that never did much for me either. It tends to smear things. I almost always just stick QL Spaces on the Albions, however the value of messing with the overhead and ambience mics can't be unmentioned.


----------



## SillyMidOn (May 29, 2017)

JPQ said:


> I also want know somehow i like Ni Guitar rig Reflektor more sounds more airy i feel but i want know if someone which is pro not superbeginer like me uses Logic Space Designer? and non creative reverbs side i mean. creative side even these other Logic reverbs can be used creative uses are much wider subject than nice sounding virtual hall/room.


Space Designer is very useful. And you can download some lexicon impulse responses for free and get the closest thing to buying lexicon products. And load them straight into space designer (see 2nd link):

http://www.housecallfm.com/download-gns-personal-lexicon-480l

https://documentation.apple.com/en/logicstudio/effects/index.html#chapter=12&section=2&tasks=true


----------



## ghandizilla (May 29, 2017)

I already own Altiverb, and now I want VSS. I hope they don't do a panning-tools review... Too much temptations!


----------



## JohnG (May 29, 2017)

t.c. electronic's Reverb4000 is the stereo version. Much cheaper and sounds good. If you want surround then you will want the 6000, but this one is nice.


----------



## Flaneurette (May 29, 2017)

Depends... sometimes I just use the DAW stock reverb or Kontakt's when in a hurry...  or lazy.  or both. 

My goto is FreeVerb3 because it's very low on precious CPU cycles, especially on convolution. It is open source, so if I want to change something, I can. For Piano, I use the TAL-Reverb-4, and general purpose is the Scarlet Suite.


----------



## Parsifal666 (May 29, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> I already own Altiverb, and now I want VSS. I hope they don't do a panning-tools review... Too much temptations!



That's the one I dream about. I do okay with what I have until I get the Altiverb, I guess. But Altiverb...that's the Everest to me. Someday when I make a million (yeah right! It won't be from music LOL!).


----------



## Parsifal666 (May 29, 2017)

thereus said:


> Isn't the basic message behind all Spitfire videos that you will be a wealthy film composer and best friend of Hans Zimmer if you just buy the next Albion?



Wait...that's NOT true?


----------



## Wes Antczak (May 29, 2017)

I've been thinking of getting the Relab VSR24, which is supposed to be "an exact end-to-end stereo recreation of the high-end TC Electronic S6000 VSS6" so together with the Relab LX480 I should have both bases covered. Apparently, the Slutz gave it a pretty high rating, and I know from having done some beta testing at the beginning of the year, that it sounds really good.


----------



## Fleer (May 29, 2017)

Can't understand why they missed the orchestral presets in Zynaptiq Adaptiverb, though. Sheer verb bliss.


----------



## AllanH (May 29, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> That's the one I dream about. I do okay with what I have until I get the Altiverb, I guess. But Altiverb...that's the Everest to me.



Someone tell vstbuzz or audioplugindeals that we'd like it for $99!


----------



## Chandler (May 29, 2017)

I think the idea behind this is more of "I use this and it sounds good to me" rather than a "shootout". I doubt either of them have tried most of the reverbs on the market.


----------



## prodigalson (May 29, 2017)

And while I couldn't necessarily disagree with their assessments, it's unsurprising that they each went into the session with their favorite reverbs and left with those same favorite reverbs. A fun video though. 

I just noticed that Relab do a subscription plan where you can pay 7.99 a month for all of their reverbs. Think I might check that out.


----------



## djrustycans (May 30, 2017)

For me, VSRS24 is fantastic. It gels with the source much better than other products mentioned in this thread. I use nothing else for Orchestral Reverb currently. I have used Lexicon PCM Native Random Hall in the past but found it to swamp everything. VSR is cleaner but fits beautifully and is a great glue for mixing different sample libraries. I have most (or have tried most) software reverbs but nothing has matched the VSRS24 for this application.


----------



## SBK (May 30, 2017)

Yeah, "Fabfilter is good, BECAUSE I like the gui!"


----------



## prodigalson (May 30, 2017)

djrustycans said:


> For me, VSRS24 is fantastic. It gels with the source much better than other products mentioned in this thread. I use nothing else for Orchestral Reverb currently. I have used Lexicon PCM Native Random Hall in the past but found it to swamp everything. VSR is cleaner but fits beautifully and is a great glue for mixing different sample libraries. I have most (or have tried most) software reverbs but nothing has matched the VSRS24 for this application.



Just been demoing VSR S24 and the LX480 and all I can say after 10-15 mins with it is .....wow. I love these reverbs. 

Most recently I've been using the Lexicon PCM RHall for some algo glue but damn I think I'll be using the VSR S24 a LOT more. It's interesting, I demoed the TC VSS3 Native when it was released a while back and it didn't blow me away up against the lexicon. But the VSR S24 is definitely a beautiful reverb.


----------



## Puzzlefactory (May 30, 2017)

VSS3 looks pretty good value for money...


----------



## WindcryMusic (May 30, 2017)

SBK said:


> Yeah, "Fabfilter is good, BECAUSE I like the gui!"



Yeah, that was a little strange to hear from someone who has such undeniable skills, wasn't it? I mean, workflow isn't a negligible factor, but I can't see it being a primary reason to choose a reverb. Maybe he just didn't communicate his opinion fully in the course of that conversation.

Actually, after watching this today, I finally decided that I should buy VVV, and then went to see if it is really "lusher" than Pro-R (which I already own). I started with pretty much the same settings that are seen in that video, and sure enough Pro-R did sound rather one-dimensional by comparison. But then I spent a minute or so tweaking Pro-R's settings away from the "Vienna Hall" preset and pretty quickly had a tail that was substantially more lush, and almost indistinguishable (to my imperfect ears) from VVV. So I personally still think that Pro-R offers more than just the GUI.


----------



## maxime77 (May 31, 2017)

tack said:


> It's a convolution reverb. I'm not quite sure where the IR is from (it's _not _Air Lyndhurst). A while ago I extracted it from the nki from Albion One and experimented with other instruments. It's got an extremely long tail (almost 5 seconds) and the space is in general quite large, but it didn't otherwise knock my socks off.


It's probably the Altiverb preset which Jake is using in this video, which is about 5.1 secs long.


----------



## ghandizilla (Jun 8, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> Just been demoing VSR S24 and the LX480 and all I can say after 10-15 mins with it is .....wow. I love these reverbs.
> 
> Most recently I've been using the Lexicon PCM RHall for some algo glue but damn I think I'll be using the VSR S24 a LOT more. It's interesting, I demoed the TC VSS3 Native when it was released a while back and it didn't blow me away up against the lexicon. But the VSR S24 is definitely a beautiful reverb.



Interesting! I'm looking forward to "glue" my mix (everything is already panned and balanced) with a little tail on the master, and I'm not happy with Altiverb, which has the "muddying" effect. VSS3 seems nice in that regard, but before buying anything, I'm still struggling to achieve better results with Altiverb. Is it possible to hear a demo comparing VSR S24 to VSS3?


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jun 8, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> Yeah, that was a little strange to hear from someone who has such undeniable skills, wasn't it? I mean, workflow isn't a negligible factor, but I can't see it being a primary reason to choose a reverb. Maybe he just didn't communicate his opinion fully in the course of that conversation.
> 
> Actually, after watching this today, I finally decided that I should buy VVV.



Then you bought a reverb that might surprise you at how useful it really is, in myriad contexts.


----------



## prodigalson (Jun 8, 2017)

ghandizilla said:


> Interesting! I'm looking forward to "glue" my mix (everything is already panned and balanced) with a little tail on the master, and I'm not happy with Altiverb, which has the "muddying" effect. VSS3 seems nice in that regard, but before buying anything, I'm still struggling to achieve better results with Altiverb. Is it possible to hear a demo comparing VSR S24 to VSS3?



you can just demo S24 yourself for 30 days


----------



## ghandizilla (Jun 8, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> you can just demo S24 yourself for 30 days



Great! Didn't see that


----------

