# Hollywood Strings Update 2.0 released



## JohnG (Jun 28, 2011)

Hollywood Strings users (both Diamond and Gold) should go to the update center and download the latest update, it fixes issues reported to us - 

http://www.soundsonline.com/Downloads

Changes in Hollywood Strings Instrument Update 2.0:

• Improved violas tuning
• Improved legato scripting
• Improved basses slur legato playability
• Improved celli slur legato playability
• Improved violas slur legato playability
• Improved 2nd violins slur legato playability
• Improved 1st violins slur legato playability
• Improved all legato slur + marc or slur + stac programs
• various reported errors fixed
• added 'Pro Template' folder (a quick start for semi powerful system template building)


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## germancomponist (Jun 28, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP4apO4dbhw


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks John for the heads up. I have a project to deliver tomorrow evening and would really like to take advantage of the violas tuning fix - BUT - not at the expense of other possible new issues. I am on PC/VEPro. If anyone updates with a similar set up and all is good -- I would sure appreciate an additional confirmation.

All the best,


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## SvK (Jun 28, 2011)

VERY IMPORTANT

Once you have the update....You will only hear the changes if you rebuild your templates!!

In other words if you install the update and then open up your VEpro project, you will NOT be hearing the HS2.0s...you have to REPLACE the instruments in VEpro with the new ones....

took me 3 hours...


Also : the CC11 curve has been made steeper @ the bottom.....be aware of this as well, as you might need to readjust some of your lines to accommodate for this.

best,
SvK


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 28, 2011)

SvK @ Tue Jun 28 said:


> VERY IMPORTANT
> 
> Once you have the update....You will only hear the changes if you rebuild your templates!!
> 
> ...




Thanks SvK - that's just the HEADS up I was looking for. I'll wait until AFTER the delivery to update. :wink:


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## JohnG (Jun 28, 2011)

Rob, I'm using PC and VE Pro as well, but I'm also a beta tester for PLAY 3.0. I can't, alas, offer bullet-proof assurance about your setup.

In your place I'd be very tempted to upload the 2.0 update and try replacing just one instrument that's bugging you -- a single viola patch -- and see if it throws off your sequencing.

The legato transitions sound much smoother to me as well, at least in the violas and violins.

Ironically, Steve v K's advice actually helps you in your situation. If his experience is replicated for everyone, you could try replacing only those instruments giving you heartburn.

But a bit scary to do this when your deadline is so close.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 28, 2011)

Damn you guys are fast! I just got the announcement 5 minutes ago.


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 28, 2011)

JohnG @ Tue Jun 28 said:


> Rob, I'm using PC and VE Pro as well, but I'm also a beta tester for PLAY 3.0. I can't, alas, offer bullet-proof assurance about your setup.
> 
> In your place I'd be very tempted to upload the 2.0 update and try replacing just one instrument that's bugging you -- a single viola patch -- and see if it throws off your sequencing.
> 
> ...




Sounds good John. This project actually sounds good with the violas (VERY organic feel). I mean I would rather they were a bit more in tune but it works. Looking forward to the update though.


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## SvK (Jun 28, 2011)

Rob

no problem.

SvK


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## Jack Weaver (Jun 28, 2011)

Steven,

Thanks for the heads-up on this. Of course it makes a lot of sense that this is the case. But still, it's going to be hours of work re-doing every thing. 

.


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## germancomponist (Jun 28, 2011)

SvK @ Wed Jun 29 said:


> VERY IMPORTANT
> 
> Once you have the update....You will only hear the changes if you rebuild your templates!!
> 
> In other words if you install the update and then open up your VEpro project, you will NOT be hearing the HS2.0s...you have to REPLACE the instruments in VEpro with the new ones....



Thats pretty normal. 

A good tipp, SVK!


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 28, 2011)

Nick, TJ and crew - many thanks for the update. Outstanding. Glad I didn't wait. The violas tuning and legato/slur playability is spot on. I can 'hear' a LOT of hours of tweaking. Much appreciated.


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## marcotronic (Jun 28, 2011)

Great to have that update! I´d like to thank the folks at EW, too. Looking forward to a smoother HS.

Marco


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## tripit (Jun 28, 2011)

Nice work. Downloaded and gave it a quick try - much smoother and better playing legato. Thanks guys.


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## Dan Mott (Jun 28, 2011)

Obviously nobody uses the big patches here because I don't notice any difference. The transitions are still too loud and I still have to move my notes a far bit back to get it in time. Those transitions still bug me. Unless its my system....

What I do like though, it seems to me that the modulation for CC11 is alot steeper which is really making a difference to the violins in particular. Now they are actually moving.

Here's an example of a loud transition viola patch. You can hear a noticeable bump before each note begins. http://soundcloud.com/destaana/legato


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 29, 2011)

Dan, I personally programmed the violas leg slur patch from the powerful system folder. Did you load the new patch from the update and jog the controllers? Works great here and your example means nothing to me because I don't know what you did. This is starting to feel like deja vu. Also these patches are supposed to live and breathe. You have to ride them like a wave. I am not sure you understand what we are trying to do.


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## Pedro Camacho (Jun 29, 2011)

Dan, perhaps you should wait a bit longer before posting examples. Test the library a bit more time, learn it better.

Most poor examples I hear are due to poor library usage or non-musical / artificial usage.

Give time to time.

I am sorry but I am totally with Nick Phoenix here, This is starting to feel like deja vu.


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## Daniel James (Jun 29, 2011)

Was I the only one who chuckled when they saw the mac .pkg file was 666meg xD

Dan


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## Pedro Camacho (Jun 29, 2011)

Still replying to Dan-Jay:
When using libraries with such magnitude as HS, first and foremost, you need to respect the MUSICIANS inside it. Most of them have like 20 to 30 years (or more) of experience playing music.

I mean if you went to a professional musician and asked him to play non-musical lines he would refuse that to you and tell you to walk away.


If you respect the musicians inside a library you will respect the library and instantly make better music out of it.

Also you should respect a developer like Nick Phoenix that started making amazing libraries since the 1997, you should consider a bit more before complaining.
In 1997 you were about like 7 years-old.

Sure sometimes I hoped EW was back to Kontakt. One thing is to discuss the engine (PLAY) which is sometimes problematic, but I never discussed the quality of EW's amazing libraries. They are one of the best developers around.

From my end I just thank Mr. Phoenix for making these amazing products that enables composers to write better sounding/more realistic music.

-Pedro


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## Dan Mott (Jun 29, 2011)

Yeah.. because I said somewhere... hmm.. somewhere around here that I don't respect Nick Phoenix, my admirer around here :s

Gees, jump to conclusions why don't you. I have full respect for Nick.

In my example I am infact riding the mod wheel and cc11 alot, and it still has bumps when going from note to note. Also, I can make this library sound good and I know how to use it. I mean how much do I need to right the controllers to stop the bumping effect happening for god sake. I shouldn't have to fiddling around for hours and working around those issues.

Maybe it's to do with that I don't have an SSD. 

I know how to use this library, sick of a certain individual claiming I don't.

So here is an example of me using HS http://soundcloud.com/destaana/lost if that doesn't sound good to anybody's ears, then I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong. This was before the update.

Also, even if I decided to restart my controllers and just choose to not ride CC11 and CC1, should the legato transitions still sound bumpy like that?? I didn't think they would and it's worse knowing that I was riding both controllers and also dipping the volume before the transitions but they were still too loud. :s maybe they are too loud for my tastes...

and pedro... quit kissing ass


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## devastat (Jun 29, 2011)

Couldn't resist anymore, had to order HW Diamond today. It was also the last day of the '2 for 1' bundle. Can't wait to get my hands on this. May have to up my memory to 24GB and install 64bit DAW now. :roll:


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## lux (Jun 29, 2011)

Pedro Camacho @ Wed Jun 29 said:


> Still replying to Dan-Jay:
> When using libraries with such magnitude as HS, first and foremost, you need to respect the MUSICIANS inside it. Most of them have like 20 to 30 years (or more) of experience playing music.
> 
> I mean if you went to a professional musician and asked him to play non-musical lines he would refuse that to you and tell you to walk away.
> ...


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## NYC Composer (Jun 29, 2011)

Pedro Camacho @ Wed Jun 29 said:


> Still replying to Dan-Jay:
> When using libraries with such magnitude as HS, first and foremost, you need to respect the MUSICIANS inside it. Most of them have like 20 to 30 years (or more) of experience playing music.
> 
> I mean if you went to a professional musician and asked him to play non-musical lines he would refuse that to you and tell you to walk away.
> ...



Yes Pedro, I remember your deep respect for developers. Let's take, for example, the developer of ....umm...Broadway Big Band, who you tore to shreds for weeks regarding the unwieldy Halion Player. Lighten up, dude. People pays their money, they wanna get their two cents in. It's only samples. I respect Nick and use his products daily and thankfully, but jeez.

As for you East West dudes, you must be exhausted. I don't have HW, but at least on my system, Play 3 is a big improvement, so hats off to you, thanks, rest a bit.

Think chill.


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## Gerd Kaeding (Jun 29, 2011)

Hi Thomas & Nick ,


*a)*


Thomas_J @ Tue Jun 28 said:


> For those of you who are wondering: the reason why you have to reload the sounds in your template is because the actual patch data is stored in the project files (cubase, logic, vepro and what have you). This is part of the VST plugin design I believe, and not much we can do about.



*do I also have to rebuild my "PLAY standalone" HS-Multis* to load the correct HS2.0 patches , 
or does PLAY automatically load the new updated HS2.0 Legato Patches when I launch PLAY in standalone mode and load the HS-Multi created with HS1 ?

___

*b)*


Nick Phoenix @ Wed Jun 29 said:


> ... I personally programmed the violas leg slur patch from the powerful system folder ...



I have several HS-legato Patch (MIDI) performances that I have to re-use the way they are "now" playing back/behave with HS 1 patches . As far as I understand you've changed the behavior of the legato patches in HS2.0 . 
Therefore : *how do I make sure that the older legato (MIDI) performances created with HS1 are played back with HS2.0 the same way I have them tweaked with the HS1 patches and their behavior ?
*
___

*c)*
_Just_ for the case that I do not update to HS2.0 right now :
Will HS1 work in PLAY3 , or in other words , *will HS1 benefit from the better PLAY3 performance ?* Or is it simply necessary to update to HS2.0 to benefit from the performance improvements of PLAY3 ?

___

Any info on this is much appreciated
thanks in advance for your help ,

Best
Gerd




*EDIT :*

For those who are interested here's a link to SO where Jonathan Kranz meanwhile answered my questions :
http://soundsonline-forums.com/showpost.php?p=668445&postcount=2 (http://soundsonline-forums.com/showpost ... ostcount=2)


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## jamwerks (Jun 29, 2011)

Think I’ll be getting HS & HB and wondering about a system. Would a PC slave (I7-970 six core overclocked to 3.8, and 24 mg ram be enough to run them both, or just enough for the strings (or not even that)? I’m thinking probably the big "power" patchs for the strings, and probably less demanding on the brass side. o-[][]-o


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## devastat (Jun 29, 2011)

It sounds like you might have to up that 24mg of ram a bit


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## Stevie (Jun 29, 2011)

lux


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 29, 2011)

I'd be curious to hear the examples in the previous thread again with the new version to hear the difference.


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## Pedro Camacho (Jun 29, 2011)

Regarding BBB:
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... hlight=bbb

My group is: Being unbiased.

Sorry Dan-Jay if I was too hard on you, I meant no disrespect.


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## bwherry (Jun 29, 2011)

I downloaded and installed the HS 2.0 update and checked each of the problems I had come across previously (and reported to EW). One has been fixed. One is a little bit better. The remaining four problems are still there. And there's a new problem. The run-down:

Celli Leg Slur + Port LT 6 Ni note disappears: 
http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/hs-celli- ... r-port-rr/
This has been fixed! Yay!

Jumpiness in legato patches:
http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/hs-legato-level-jumps/
Maybe a *little bit* better in 2.0.

Release trails on wrong note in legato patches:
http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/hs-releas ... -on-wrong/
Problem is still there.

"Double notes" sound in legato patches when notes butt together (but do not overlap): 
http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/hs-1st-vl ... r-lt-6-ni/
Problem is still there. Might even be a little worse than before. (yes this is purely a qualitative assessment on my part, but it seems even more pronounced at higher velocities in the first violins)

Hard note release cutoffs on note that had a legato transition into it:
http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/hs-legato-sample-release/
Problem is still there.

The 2nd Violins, 03 Short Tight, MOD COMBOS, 2nd Violins Shorts MOD SPEED patch patch is still _totally broken_. Missing round robin on some artics, note velocity doesn't affect sample volume in others, and marcato short (mod wheel all the way up) is completely nonexistent - no notes sound!

(Potentially) new problem: Legato button on/off also turns the reverb on/off. I actually don't know if this happened before, because I only tried the legato button recently. That can't be by design, can it?

So the update was a little bit disappointing for me. All that being said, I have started using the sustain RR, staccato, and staccatissimo patches and really love them. The sound is most awesome.

My $.02.

Brian

ps- Before someone asks: yes, this was using the new patches from 2.0. Brand new instances of PLAY, fresh instruments loaded from the browser. I did NOT use any previously saved project or .ewi files.


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## jamwerks (Jun 29, 2011)

I don’t yet own any EW products, but just a thought: are you using Play 2 or 3?


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## bwherry (Jun 29, 2011)

jamwerks @ Wed Jun 29 said:


> are you using Play 2 or 3?



Who, me? PLAY v2.1.2, the latest publicly-available version.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jun 29, 2011)

Honestly from a person that's heard strings for years in the same room with me, the jumps are very common. They just aren't as apparent in a huge ensemble. Dan-Jay's examples didn't really bother me that much, and honestly I don't have that problem.

Any and all problems I've had with HS Gold on a Mac were fixed that I can tell with Play 3.


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## JohnG (Jun 29, 2011)

Hi Dan-Jay,

I think something is off. I am unable to replicate your "legato" effect with HS 2.0. I certainly hear what you are talking about, when listening to your audio example on Soundcloud but I'm not generating it. I tried three legato viola patches and didn't hear it -- VLAs legato slur RR LT 12 NI, VLAs legato slur SM Ni, VLAs legato bc slow NI.

The transitions are more audible using the "stac slur legato" patch, but it's supposed to do that.

Did you replace the patches after loading your template? If not, you will be using the old patch. 

Which also speaks to Gaerd's question -- yes, you have to rebuild your template for each instrument to get the benefit of the 2.0 patches. I'm going through and replacing each patch.

They are a vast improvement here -- just lovely.

Here's something Jonathan Kranz wrote that is perhaps clearer:

"1.) Yes... Instruments themselves are essentially just saved settings. If you load a multi (.ewi file) then you are loading those settings saved at that exact moment in time, not loading them from the newly updated instruments contained in your instruments folder. So yes, if you want to use the new instruments you will have to load them from the updated instruments in your instruments folder.

2.) You may need to tweak the midi if you replace instruments that are already saved with your performance. If you are already happy with your project and have done many tweaks on the performance, than it is up to you whether you want to change that or not.

3.) HS 1 Instruments will work fine in PLAY 3, and you will still benefit from the changes and enhancements made to PLAY 3 either way."


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

Hey everyone.

Thank you for you input so far.

Interesting thing that has happened is it seems I'm getting those performance issues on a particular patch!

I tried so fiddle around and see what I could do and I loaded a different patch, playing the same line and it sounded perfect. The patch name is Violas leg slur RR LT 12 - Here is the patch playing nicely without any bumps - http://soundcloud.com/destaana/good-sounding-legato - It seems as the the mod wheel and CC11 reacts better in these patches.

As for the patch I'm using that has bumps and can't keep up is the powerful system BC + slur NI patch which sounds like this (same CC data) - http://soundcloud.com/destaana/annoying-legato - In this patch you can here that the transitions just don't want to let go quick enough before the next note, causing a bump (annoying bump) also the CC data doesn't seem to react aswell as the first patch.

:s


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

So it seems as though the big patch are either kind of faulty, or I need an SSD maybe. I need somebody to try a big BC + slur patch. I just hate that bump before the next note begins. Also CC control data, I don't understand why the LT patch would react better to the big patch when the big patch has more layers.


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 30, 2011)

We didn't work on the BC patches in this update. It's all listed in the 2.0 summary. In our mad rush to make everyone happy in the early days of HS, we made too many patches, before all the basics were solid. So there will still be imperfect patches floating around in HS. For this update we focused on the leg slur, which is what most use.


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

Ok. Thanks Nick.

However, I most use the Bow change, will there be a fix for this?? Can't leave a couple out in the dark.


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

This update doesn't change anything for someone like me that uses the BC patches and it's just really disappointing. I mean, no offense, but if it were my product, I'd make sure all the patches are right before even releasing it, not to mention updating it. I mean if the guys over at EW knew there were still issues in the other patches.... why not fix them while you are at it?? Why rush to get products out? 

Nick, you and the EW team wouldn't have so much pressure put on you if you didn't go around mentioning libraries that you are working on that are not even close to being finished yet. As well as release dates, Think back on how many times HS was delayed and as for some of your other products. If you guys actually kept quiet about what you were doing, there would be no one to nag, complain and boss you around with annoying comments, such as mine right now. No one to say "Hey why does this patch sound odd" when the reason it does is because it was clearly rushed to satisfy your selves and customers.

I spent the full amount on HS and as a user I would assume it would be 95 percent finished and triple checked by the team. The other 5 percent would be on "tiny" issues that the team had missed. It's an on going trend for you guys, considering the amount of problems people have had with your instruments which shows on how many updates there have been. Panning issues. Volume issues. Noise issues. Yeah they are all understandable, but what I don't understand is that clearly who ever was listening back to the patches would have noticed these things. How can you not notice a piano note panned unusually right or left? Or a bow hitting the stand as the patch ends, or in the middle of the patch? Or loud transitions and faulty volumes?.. TUNING!

It's just so odd considering I am buying from professionals that are using top quality gear and being engineered by some of the top names in the industry. It kills me to see developers denying their faults, then 2 weeks later finally updating what the majority of people are hearing. Why get so offended? I'd love it if I could tell someone a fault that's in their samples and they take it like a professional and work with the customer and not shutting the customer down, saying that a certain demo or request means nothing.

I sense arrogants in certain individual developers here and it makes me sick.... really. It seems as though once you get BIG, your ego does the same thing.

Nick. I do have one more question for you though. You say you worked on the slur transitions. Does this include the slur samples in the BC + slur patches? because I have a feeling it doesn't, considering the performance between the "just slur" patches and the BC + slur patches are completely different sounding. It feels like I'm using two different libraries honestly. Also, the CC data... why is it that it doesn't react as much in the big BC + slur patches, compared to the slur patches? Is this an update you fixed for the slur patches in particular too?

Oh.. and sorry if this was just another "Bended Novel"


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## wqaxsz (Jun 30, 2011)

I agree.


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## SvK (Jun 30, 2011)

Hey dan...

Why not take a chill pill and go away for while?

SvK


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 30, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> This update doesn't change anything for someone like me that uses the BC patches and it's just really disappointing. I mean, no offense, but if it were my product, I'd make sure all the patches are right before even releasing it, not to mention updating it. I mean if the guys over at EW knew there were still issues in the other patches.... why not fix them while you are at it?? Why rush to get products out?
> 
> Nick, you and the EW team wouldn't have so much pressure put on you if you didn't go around mentioning libraries that you are working on that are not even close to being finished yet. As well as release dates, Think back on how many times HS was delayed and as for some of your other products. If you guys actually kept quiet about what you were doing, there would be no one to nag, complain and boss you around with annoying comments, such as mine right now. No one to say "Hey why does this patch sound odd" when the reason it does is because it was clearly rushed to satisfy your selves and customers.
> 
> ...



A guy goes into a doctor's office, quickly lifts his arm way over his head and exclaims, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"

The doctor replies, "Don't do that!"

There are tons of patches in HS. If these do not behave as you want and think they should work, choose another patch. There is no such thing as an indispensable patch.


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

Ohhhhhhh.... choose another patch that works the way it should?? Hmmm.. ok. See, I thought that when a buy a product... all the patches would work properly??? No? And if the patch doesn't work, I can simply tell the developer, aswell as the people involved without them sending me away/

You guys just don't care because you obviously don't use the bow change BIG patches, so it really doesn't bother you which makes what you are saying..... really easy to say.

Step into my shoes, step in reality and step into your professional boots for one second.


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## SvK (Jun 30, 2011)

Danny,

How often have you seen a live string player bow-change on every note?
Cause that's what you are doing.....

One other thing, you have zero concept of how massive an undertaking it is for EW or Vienna to release a huge library with literally millions of samples to edit and program. 

Sample libraries, Video games and software all get released with bugs......

If they didnt, they would never come out...

Ps: I only use powerful folder patches


SvK


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## OlavB (Jun 30, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> A guy goes into a doctor's office, quickly lifts his arm way over his head and exclaims, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"
> 
> The doctor replies, "Don't do that!"
> 
> There are tons of patches in HS. If these do not behave as you want and think they should work, choose another patch. There is no such thing as an indispensable patch.



This really REALLY doesn't make any sense.


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

SvK @ Fri Jul 01 said:


> Danny,
> 
> How often have you seen a live string player bow-change on every note?
> 
> ...



They don't bow change on every note. However, it sounds really nice (apart from the issues) when playing long and slow legato passages which makes it more emotional in my opinion. I wouldn't slur long notes, would you?? I'd like to use all my bow, going from note to note which is what I did as a violin player. When you slur to another note after a long note, it sounds odd and the transition is too quick, but with bow change it's nice and long.


Anyway.


Of course it's a massive project, but I'd still listen back to my recordings and my programming multiple times to make sure It's the best it can be. No unusual panning and noises and such. Then there would be less issues.

SVK. It's totally normal for things to have bugs in them, but minor bugs. HS is still brand new and it's been updated....... I lost count. Most of the reasons are pretty strange to me at a professional level. Out of everything I have bough, whether it's games and what have you, this is just...... nuts, and now I'm nuts.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 30, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> Ohhhhhhh.... choose another patch that works the way it should?? Hmmm.. ok. See, I thought that when a buy a product... all the patches would work properly??? No? And if the patch doesn't work, I can simply tell the developer, aswell as the people involved without them sending me away/
> 
> You guys just don't care because you obviously don't use the bow change BIG patches, so it really doesn't bother you which makes what you are saying..... really easy to say.
> 
> Step into my shoes, step in reality and step into your professional boots for one second.



What professionals know that you do not is that for us, because the clock is running, if something is not working the way we think it should, we do something else.

There are no perfect libraries. This one is huge and EW is committed to continuously improving it.


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## OlavB (Jun 30, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> What professionals know that you do not is that for us, because the clock is running, if something is not working the way we think it should, we do something else.
> 
> There are no perfect libraries. This one is huge and EW is committed to continuously improving it.



Again, no sense whatsoever. The man paid for a full product, yes? Why do you insist on him ignoring the fact it doesn't work fully? I don't get that. Plus you're insulting now.


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

Ok. 

Alright.

After all this, did you guys not see that Nick said... "We did not work on the BC patches" So clearly these need to be fixed too.

Don't try and throw my issue away. I just want confirmation that these will be fixed TOO in a future update.

There are deadlines for writing music, but are there deadlines for a company deciding on making a library?? I didn't think so? Nobody is saying to EW that "hey EW, you need to fix this patch before all the professional composers out there, release there pieces. If it's not done, then HS will be TERMINATED"

Plenty of time to fix patches. I will have a happy soul if I get some confirmation here! and I won't mind how long it takes, I just want the updated patches the sound NICE, to sound the same way on what ever patch I choose. This is what I paid for!


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 30, 2011)

OlavB @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Thu Jun 30 said:
> 
> 
> > What professionals know that you do not is that for us, because the clock is running, if something is not working the way we think it should, we do something else.
> ...



I am not ignoring the fact that there may be issues with the bow change patches .If there are, and it seems there are, they will be fixed in time. As I said, EW is totally committed to continuing to improve this library. 

iI am not insulting Dan-Jay, it is simply a fact that Dan-Jay is a hobbyist, not a pro, and that pros have to learn to adapt on the fly.


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## SvK (Jun 30, 2011)

Now im just getting mad....

Dan is making it sound like the patches he's trying to use are unusable

That is NOT true......

And for Dan to suggest that is a load of bull.


Kb123, Olaf: 
Do you gents own this library?

SvK


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

They are not unusable. However to me they are unusable to the ear and I don't want to use them. 

SVK, for god sake man. Understand where I'm coming from.

I like these BIG BC + Slur patches because they make a perfect work flow environment for me. I am telling people these issues so that I can ONE DAY use them again to my liking. I like how the sustains and legatos are in one patch and I can use forth position with BC, but I can't because these weren't fixed.

I will change what I using and I am. I just want a fix damn it, and so would you too if the patches you liked to use were faulty.


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## OlavB (Jun 30, 2011)

SvK @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> Now im just getting mad....
> 
> Dan is making it sound like the patches he's tring to use are unusable
> 
> ...



I don't. I responded to the "use something else" advice that doesn't make sense, regardless of the accuracy of Dan's claims.


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## SvK (Jun 30, 2011)

Dan,

Focus on your music. Time is too short.
Im done.

SvK


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## SvK (Jun 30, 2011)

Kb123,

So do I and I could never get another libary to sound this convincing and musical, despite the remaining bugs...

SvK


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jun 30, 2011)

kb123 @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Thu Jun 30 said:
> 
> 
> > OlavB @ Thu Jun 30 said:
> ...



Once again, AFAIK, there has never been a large library released that did not have some issues initially; not LASS...not Cinebrass....not VSL....

For that matter, not Logic...not Cubase...not DP....not OSX....not Windows.

So if you are not willing to deal with flaws then you should only buy software that is at least 2 years old, and even then there will probably be flaws. What is important is a company's commitment to improving the software and EW has already shown they are with this update.

They cannot fix everything at once so they have to prioritize the patches that they receive the most complaints about and that is what they are doing and will CONTINUE to do.

There really is nothing else for me to say about it if you do not find it reasonable.


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

SvK @ Fri Jul 01 said:


> Kb123,
> 
> So do I and I could never get another libary to sound this convincing and musical, despite the reamining bugs...
> 
> SvK



Yes. With the patches you use which do not have bugs. However with the ones I want to use, these aren't musical at all. So now I'm using the ones I don't want to use, but Have to for now.


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## SvK (Jun 30, 2011)

OlavB

My anger stems from Dan feeding prospective HS buyers horse-dung...
When it comes to mock-up, I'm pretty friggin' meticulous. 

HS is a godsend. It's that good.

SvK


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## OlavB (Jun 30, 2011)

SvK @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> OlavB
> 
> My anger stems from Dan feeding prospective HS buyers horse-dung...
> When it comes to mock-up, I'm pretty friggin' meticulous.
> ...



I'm actually picking up a Terrapack tomorrow to FINALLY be able to test it out myself :D


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## SvK (Jun 30, 2011)

No Dan,

the patches I use sometimes have bugs on certain transitions, and when i come across one I handle it by riding the Vibrato CC1 to eliminate the bump...

SvK


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

Horse-dung!

I'm seriously speechless. 

For those of you who want to buy HS... GO BUY IT because it's IMO the best on the market and nothing can compete right now. No joke.

HOWEVER. Be prepared that the Big slur and BC patches have not been worked on so you will just need to settle for the slur LT patches. Sorry.


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

SvK @ Fri Jul 01 said:


> Dan,
> 
> Many years ago I was always mad at my libraries for not making my music sound better.....
> 
> SvK




Making insults now. That's nice man. Just keep assuming that this is why I'm angry.


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## Peter Alexander (Jun 30, 2011)

OlavB @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> SvK @ Thu Jun 30 said:
> 
> 
> > OlavB
> ...



That's what I'm working with for HS Gold. Once installed do the updates and make sure you have the newest manual.

Meanwhile, you can save time by reading the reviews I did especially #3 which you can find at www.professionalorchestration.com under the Reviews tab.


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## SvK (Jun 30, 2011)

The reason BC patches sound bumpier than slurs is because Bow Changes ARE bumpier in real life....

SvK


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

and....

far out. I need to make a video because riding CC1 and CC11 to compensate for the bugs is exactly what I have been doing and have said this in some of my posts. I'm tweaking for hours and I still get noticeable bumps the are extremely unmusical.

It even does it on the slurs, but not in the LT patches, only in the big ones


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## OlavB (Jun 30, 2011)

Peter Alexander @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> OlavB @ Thu Jun 30 said:
> 
> 
> > SvK @ Thu Jun 30 said:
> ...



Will do, but since EW Europe is practically around the corner from me I might aswell get a terrapack and listen to it too!


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## Gerd Kaeding (Jun 30, 2011)

For those who are interested in a short Online Masterclass for Violins here's
a link to the Berlin Philharmonik Youtube Channel where Helmut Mebert , 
member of the Berlin Philharmoniks , gives a short introduction to the part of the 1st violin in Beethoven's Symphony No. 9 .

Maybe this is kind of interesting for those of you who know strings just from samplelibraries , or from big ( over produced ) soundtrack productions . And I really don't mean this in an offensive way at all .

Listen how smooth and/or "unsmooth" certain legato parts/phrases sound in real life .


Unfortunately Mister Mebert presents this class in german . 
However , when you click on the "cc" button beyond the video you'll get the english subtitles . 
Therefore you might have to go and watch the video on youtube and not the embedded
video below .





Best

Gerd


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## Peter Alexander (Jun 30, 2011)

One thing about this library of which you must be keenly aware, is that with HS, perhaps more than other libraries, you're functioning more like a concertmaster, because you're not picking patches, you're working out your bowings. I say that because I'm finding that you can "bow" a passage different ways each producing its own subtle sound.


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## SvK (Jun 30, 2011)

Dan,

Many years ago, I used to yell at my libraries for not making my music sound better. I was thoroughly convinced that my samples were at fault....and with the state of sample libraries in the early 90s who could blame me right? Well needless to say 9 of 10 times it wasn't really the libraries fault at all, but instead my writing. Now I mean no disrespect and I have never heard any of your music....

All i can do is speak from my frustrations early on when passionately, impatiently I yearned hear through the speakers what was inside my head and could not make that happen. I often wrongly blamed my libraries instead of improving the harmonic structure, counterpoint, voicing etc, etc...

Because when that stuff falls in-line, you'll be saying:

"What LEG bump?"

Best,
SvK


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

SvK @ Fri Jul 01 said:


> Dan,
> 
> Many years ago, I used to yell at my libraries for not making my music sound better. I was thoroughly convinced that my samples were at fault....and with the state of sample libraries in the early 90s who could blame me right? Well needless to say 9 of 10 times it wasn't really the libraries fault at all, but instead my writing. Now I mean no disrespect and I have never heard any of your music....
> 
> ...


No. I'm not yelling at any libraries because they aren't making my music sound better.

When I like what I write, and when I'm trying to do just a simple thing, I can't stand listening to it with a massive bump before every transition. This is not my fault, its the librarie's fault and it has nothing to do with what I write as well as nothing to do with me blaming the library because it's not making me sound better. 

The library sounds damn good, but the patches I use are not fixed yet and it's annoying. I am now using the FIXED patches and they sound fantastic, but I sooner or later want the patches I like to use to be usable to my ear and I want those patches to sound the same as the patches that were fixed, then I'm happy. Get it?

I like the big patches as I said over and over again. I want them to perform just aswell as the LT. Now what don't you get about that? Why do you as well as others attack my writing abilities?
SvK[/quote]


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## germancomponist (Jun 30, 2011)

Dan, I am sure this patches will be fixed asap. I have had so many bugs in so many other software, and I've learned not to excite me more about it. I think you can be sure that EW is working on it..... .


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 30, 2011)

You know what would probably put this topic to rest?

A comment saying "we're working on it".


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 30, 2011)

Well we are not working on it. We are on the brass now. We decided to fix what we perceived to be the major issues with HS before finishing the brass, because we felt it was more important. It was a huge undertaking. HS is the biggest most complex under the hood VI ever made. We will take another look at the end of July.


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## SvK (Jun 30, 2011)

Gerd

Vielen dank fuer den Link.

alles beste,
SvK


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jun 30, 2011)

Generally software development is never perfect, and only the major bugs are fixed while the other bugs are put on the back-burner.

I still hear violins bump with bow changes in real life (depending on the interval), so I'm still not convinced that it's a bug. But I would like to hear the example without you riding the CC down before each transition.

Also, what system are you running? Are you on a Mac or PC? Play 2 or 3? These things would matter because the Heavy patches did not work that well for me in Play 2 as my Mac was choking on it's memory limits, but works brilliantly in Play3.

Though I do not have the BC patches, sorry.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Jun 30, 2011)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Thu Jun 30 said:


> Generally software development is never perfect, and only the major bugs are fixed while the other bugs are put on the back-burner.
> 
> I still hear violins bump with bow changes in real life (depending on the interval), so I'm still not convinced that it's a bug. But I would like to hear the example without you riding the CC down before each transition.
> 
> ...



Are you saying this as a beta tester, Nathan, since PLAY 3.0 hasn't been released yet?


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## devastat (Jun 30, 2011)

Hopefully PLAY 3 will get released soon, Fedex should deliver my Hollywood Strings tomorrow.. o=?


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

When a transition is louder than the next note, I'd consider that a bug.

I understand the bow change would have a bit of a bump which it does. It's the transition that's too loud. It's not just on the bow change, but on the big slur patches swell.

The transition is just so loud that the bump I'm talking about is the transition before the legato bump which is much quieter a more natural sounding. The loud transitions were fixed clearly in the LT patches because when I changed from my original patches to them, it sounded really good!! Like wow what an improvement.

I'm on a PC. Hosting play in VE pro. I7 920 24gb of ram 2.67GHz and running windows 7. So you see, I have all the max requirement except that I don't have an SSD which those are way too expensive right now. They are just as much as the library.

Ill post 2 new demos tomorrow and I'll do a walk through with you all and maybe I can clear things up. So stay tuned


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## Dominik Raab (Jun 30, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Thu 30 Jun said:


> When a transition is louder than the next note, I'd consider that a bug.
> 
> I understand the bow change would have a bit of a bump which it does. It's the transition that's too loud. It's not just on the bow change, but on the big slur patches swell.
> 
> ...



I'm almost scared you'll jump on me and stab me to death for asking such a question, but...
...did you try to lower the volume of the legato in the articulations list seperately? I am completely aware that, unlike CineBrass, Hollywood Strings does not offer a possibility to change only the transitions. You change the transition and the following note together, as they are one "articulation" in the list.
It might still be worth a try if you haven't already tried that.


----------



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jun 30, 2011)

> Are you saying this as a beta tester, Nathan, since PLAY 3.0 hasn't been released yet?



Yes. Before I had cuttoffs on the release trails and jumpy legato on a few instruments (not all) definitely improvement for Play 3.

Looks like Dan has a completely different system though, and I'm also suspect with VEPro as well. Dan, have you tried doing the same thing with just one instance directly in the DAW without ANY 3rd party software?

Or perhaps even stand-alone?


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 30, 2011)

I would guess that what Dan is experiencing is a patch with some screwy values that need to be fixed. Though I am not sure. Will look in a few weeks.night now I'm in way over my head. ;/c] ;/c]


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## Dan Mott (Jun 30, 2011)

Nick Phoenix @ Fri Jul 01 said:


> I would guess that what Dan is experiencing is a patch with some screwy values that need to be fixed. Though I am not sure. Will look in a few weeks.night now I'm in way over my head. ;/c] ;/c]



Nick. Just quickly. How many layers of legato and sustains are there in the LT 12 patches, compared to the big patches??


Nathan: I'm now testing the patches just in my DAW. I'll let you know that happends.

Turning the legato samples down would just make things uneven. It wouldn't just turn the transitions down, it would turn down the whole legato note, along with the transitions.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 1, 2011)

I'm uploading a voice over demo right now. I know some of you are going to shoot me in the foot for this, but please just hear me out.

I am using the violas in my examples, and what I say applies to all the string section patches.

Thanks for you time in advance.

I'm a perfectionist... so...


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## Dan Mott (Jul 1, 2011)

http://soundcloud.com/destaana/hs

In the end. All I want is someone to look at these patches alot more closely and just take it in consideration.

EDIT: It would be great if EW could do what ever programming they did on the updated patches, the same thing on the big patches and BC patches.


Thanks.


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## Dominik Raab (Jul 1, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Fri 01 Jul said:


> http://soundcloud.com/destaana/hs
> 
> In the end. All I want is someone to look at these patches alot more closely and just take it in consideration.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your voice-over, made things a lot clearer - at least to me. I know what you mean now.
That's not only the difference between slurred legato and BC legato that can be heard in real life, there's something more to it that definitely needs fixing in my opinion. You made that quite clear and I couldn't agree more. Let's hope it will be fixed after the Brass came out.

I also understand your (and somebody else's, don't know who it was exactly) frustration about the product being "incomplete" or "only partially usable". But I also understand the lot of work that's behind Hollywood Strings. Some of you said that EastWest should have released after everything is resolved. That would mean it wouldn't be released by now. Would it be better to have no product (and no money spent, I won't disagree with you on that one) at all instead of having a lot of great patches and some that need fixing? It's not like EVERY legato patch is corrupted and totaly unusable.
Like I said: I understand your frustration. But please, when talking about EW's release behaviour, take into account that all the fixes that may come over the next few months will be free! You will eventually have the value you expected for your money. It's not a very happy fact that it'll be a few months after you spent it, but nonetheless: The value will be there.

I personally think that even without the BC patches, Hollywood Strings would be worth its price. I'd buy it again without any doubt. One day, when the BC patches will be fixed, there is even more value to it.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 1, 2011)

Agree. Thanks for listening.

However. I'm guessing the reason why EW release there libraries so quick is clearly to do with money. If it wasn't all about money, then there wouldn't be as many touch up, and last minute finishes after release. No offense.

Anyway. Looking forward to future updates. For now I'll just use what works.


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## Dominik Raab (Jul 1, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Fri 01 Jul said:


> However. I'm guessing the reason why EW release there libraries so quick is clearly to do with money. If it wasn't all about money, then there wouldn't be as many touch up, and last minute finishes after release. No offense.



EW is, after all, a business company. Everything they do has got to do with money. I don't think you can blame them for that. Some people are happy with a product that needs some fixing after release - EW would be silly if they didn't get their money as soon as possible. Every potential customer can decide whether they buy it at once or after the fixes.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 1, 2011)

Alright. True.

Then I guess after all this... I do not understand why companies would rush things out to get it on the market when it's not 100 percent finished. Nick even said it him self and it confuses me that they would rush patches out to satisfy everyone at the last minute.

If I was working on a product, I'd keep my mouth shut and work on it until I thought it was 100 percent complete and then be polite and happy to work with any customer who had an issue. I also wouldn't deny my faults.

There is a developer on this site who I really like. I won't name them, but if every developer were like them, it would just be a fantastic customer/developer environment and I have never seen a developer help me so much.


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## Dominik Raab (Jul 1, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Fri 01 Jul said:


> There is a developer on this site who I really like. I won't name them, but if every developer were like them, it would just be a fantastic customer/developer environment and I have never seen a developer help me so much.



Sounds like C*nes*mples 
Althoug you could really, really argue about Cinebrass PRO. Cinebrass seemed a little rushed out to me as well...


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## Dan Mott (Jul 1, 2011)

No. It isn't Cinesamples 

I'm just glad somebody understands. I'm also confused on how what I'm saying is somewhat immature. It's an on going issue in almost every mainstream industry IMO.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 1, 2011)

Anyway. I'm finished with this. I've said all I needed to say. 

Thanks Nick for looking into it!


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## SvK (Jul 1, 2011)

yyyayyyyyyyyy


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## lux (Jul 1, 2011)

i would like Dan keeping it alive just to see Svk getting mad all over. We have enough moderators here.


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## Dominik Raab (Jul 1, 2011)

SvK @ Fri 01 Jul said:


> yyyayyyyyyyyy



Most valuable comment of the whole conversation :roll:


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 1, 2011)

lux @ Fri Jul 01 said:


> i would like Dan keeping it alive just to see Svk getting mad all over. We have enough moderators here.



Not that any of them ever actually moderate


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## lux (Jul 1, 2011)

eastwestlurker.com sounds like a good forum name.

There you could moderate. Even before anyone posts anything. Something like I join and get banned without posting a single thing.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 1, 2011)

lux @ Fri Jul 01 said:


> eastwestlurker.com sounds like a good forum name.
> 
> There you could moderate. Even before anyone posts anything. Something like I join and get banned without posting a single thing.



I LIKE IT!!!!!


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## bwherry (Jul 1, 2011)

Problem I submitted to EastWest support on June 21, 2011: (for Hollywood Strings)

===============
Title: 2nd Violins Shorts MOD SPEED is all messed up

Description:

In 2nd Violins, 03 Short Tight, MOD COMBOS, 2nd Violins Shorts MOD SPEED patch:

- the staccato notes (mod wheel all the way down) are both not round robin and not velocity sensitive - the same, quiet-ish note seems to be triggered on each press of a given key

- the spiccato (mod wheel up 1/2 of the way) seems fine

- the staccato on bow (mod wheel up 2/3 of the way) is both not round robin and not velocity sensitive - the same, quiet-ish note seems to be triggered on each press of a given key

- the marcato short (mod wheel up all the way) is SILENT! ABSOLUTELY NO NOTES sound!

===============

Today (July 1, 2011) *the case was closed*, with the following comment:

"If you are referring to Hollywood Strings, the Mod wheel is what controls the behavior of velocity. This gives you more dynamic control and a more natural swell."

:roll: :shock: :( 

Was my note unclear? Could I have been more descriptive? How can I best help the EastWest folks identify and fix problems? If the front line support folks don't understand how the product is supposed to work and immediately close issue reports I'm going to have a tough time being helpful to them (and other HS users)...

Oh, if any of you HS users want to try to reproduce the problem please do!

Brian

ps- This problem was NOT fixed in the 2.0 update, as mentioned in my earlier post in this thread.


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## Dominik Raab (Jul 1, 2011)

bwherry @ Fri 01 Jul said:


> Problem I submitted to EastWest support on June 21, 2011: (for Hollywood Strings)
> 
> ===============
> Title: 2nd Violins Shorts MOD SPEED is all messed up
> ...



Have you tried moving your CC#11 controller / automation before start playing?
In a lot of HS patches, you need to move both CC#1 and CC#11 before playing after loading it.
If you can confirm you DID try this, I'll try and reproduce that behaviour.


----------



## bwherry (Jul 1, 2011)

Dominik Raab @ Fri Jul 01 said:


> Have you tried moving your CC#11 controller / automation before start playing?
> In a lot of HS patches, you need to move both CC#1 and CC#11 before playing after loading it.
> If you can confirm you DID try this, I'll try and reproduce that behaviour.



I definitely moved CC1, as that's used to select among the articulations, but I can't remember if I touched CC11. I would be _amazed_ (and delighted) if that had any effect, but I'll try it when I get back to my studio.

Brian


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## Mike Connelly (Jul 1, 2011)

That's bizarre. I assume that was sent to tech support, are you able to respond even though the case is closed?


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## Dominik Raab (Jul 1, 2011)

bwherry @ Fri 01 Jul said:


> Dominik Raab @ Fri Jul 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried moving your CC#11 controller / automation before start playing?
> ...



Can't promise anything, but there's been some situations like "Why the hell doesn't it work? Stupid, silly, motherfu-... oh, look, it works!" involving CC11 :D


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## bwherry (Jul 1, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Fri Jul 01 said:


> That's bizarre. I assume that was sent to tech support, are you able to respond even though the case is closed?



I responded thus:

=================
Yes, I'm referring to Hollywood Strings (Diamond, as the "Item" in this case states).

For *sustained* patches (and legato, etc.) the mod wheel (CC1) and expression (CC11) are indeed used to control the dynamics. Not for short articulations, like staccato and spiccato. The MOD COMBOS/MOD SPEED patches in Hollywood Strings actually contain multiple short articulations, with the choice of articulation that sounds selectable via the mod wheel. Mod wheel all the way down = shortest articulation (staccatissimo). Mod wheel all the way up = longest short articulation (short marcato). For most instruments (1st violins, violas, celli, basses) this works fine. But the 2nd violins MOD SPEED patch (as described in my original note) doesn't work correctly (as outlined in my original note).

Please have another look and reopen the case. It has NOT been fixed in the latest 2.0 update. I'd love to get this fixed.

Thanks,

Brian
=================

Maybe it will get reopened and/or looked at by someone else...


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jul 2, 2011)

If a ticket system says "Closed" it doesn't mean the issue is resolved. It means they require a response from you if you choose to, otherwise it stays closed.

Also:



> Then I guess after all this... I do not understand why companies would rush things out to get it on the market when it's not 100 percent finished.



Because you can't have it 100% finished. Beta testers only get rid of critical bugs. The rest of the user base after release will find the not-so-critical bugs that they will eventually fix in a patch.

This happens in every possible software development avenue ever.


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## Dominik Raab (Jul 2, 2011)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sat 02 Jul said:


> If a ticket system says "Closed" it doesn't mean the issue is resolved. It means they require a response from you if you choose to, otherwise it stays closed.
> 
> Also:
> 
> ...



I completely agree, but there is something I'd like to point out: When it comes to music software, "critical" depends heavily on your point of view. As we saw when we were talking about the Bow Change Legato patches: Some people have a different opinion on whether an issue is critical or not.
I think we should keep that in mind and respect it - not saying you didn't! I only wanted to add that.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jul 2, 2011)

I understand, but the word "Critical" in development generally means "a large amount of people are complaining about this issue" which is not the case here.

I don't really like that idea, but it does make sense. It's the only way to effectively make the product useful for a large amount of people. Same goes for game development.


----------



## Dominik Raab (Jul 3, 2011)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sat 02 Jul said:


> I don't really like that idea, but it does make sense. It's the only way to effectively make the product useful for a large amount of people. Same goes for game development.



Won't argue here, you're absolutely right


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## Dan Mott (Jul 3, 2011)

The fact that there are issues annoyes me. The fact that issues will only be fixed if the majority agree annoyes me too. Another thing, If the developer agrees with the issue from one or two users, but will only change it if the rest agrees annoyes me aswell.

The main thing that bugs me is that this library was rushed. I don't like that it was rushed just to get out it quickly because people were getting frustrated with all the delayed release dates, which clearly indicates that they weren't ready and they didn't meet their deadlines. It shows because not all the patches behave the way they should.

How is a customer supposed to know that a brand new released library is in a so called "beta" stage? This is the only product I've felt so emotional about. No other library has caused me so much greif.

Look at LASS. The tuning was way off. How can someone at a professional level miss that? Aswell as the violas in HS. Why can't anybody understand that this seems so odd. Libraries can be 100 percent finished. There's a difference between the developer knowing that it's 100 percent finished, than knowing it isn't and releasing it anyway which would make customers assume it's completely done. As a customer I went in and assumed it was completely done and all the patches have been worked on with the exact same care than the so called "important patches".

I understand HS is a big library, but this should have had more time spent on it IMO. I bought Evolution World percussion which is a big library too. I've played with every single insturment and it behaves all the same. There are no issues, such as noises in the background and patches that don't respond correctly. There isn't any patch that seperates it self from others, leading people to think it was just a last minute touch. I can tell the libraries which have been made with care or not. 

If nobody talks about release dates and such, than no one would comment on anything like this. If I was working on a library, I'd shut up untill I knew it was completely done to the best of my abilities. During that time, no one would be wating for anything from me because they never knew in the first place. After It's completely done, I would then show off some demos each day to get the hype going and also get some good marketting strats happening too on build up to release date. I my self would never even mention the library if I was still working on it because that seems stupid to me. I certaintly wouldn't make a release date when still working on it aswell because then I'm putting alot more pressure on my self, aswell as my customers. Then if I don't meet the first deadline, customers will be pissed, especially if I did it three more times after that.

As for SVK. I'm pretty sure the guy would be feeling like me if HIS patches weren't working right either. I'm also pretty sure if he found out that the update didn't include a fix for the patches he used, he would have been pissed aswell. I am using different patches now, but understand this.. It seems so stupid that I have to compensate for the libraries rushed patches. I'd say that my issue is a critical issue because it's to do with several... YES.. several patches in the library. I not so bad issue would be a bow hitting the stand at the end of a sample.

Anyway.


----------



## Theseus (Jul 3, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Sun Jul 03 said:


> I understand HS is a big library, but this should have had more time spent on it IMO. I bought Evolution World percussion which is a big library too. I've played with every single insturment and it behaves all the same. There are no issues, such as noises in the background and patches that don't respond correctly. There isn't any patch that seperates it self from others, leading people to think it was just a last minute touch. I can tell the libraries which have been made with care or not.



You need to understand that there's no such thing as a "perfect library" out there when it comes to the level of ambition that HS tried to achieve. You talk about Evolution World Percussion and claim having checked all the patches yourself and found no issues. Well, I'm sorry to tell you that there are in fact some patches with problems, some with (very mild) phasing issues, some with a stereo image too lateralized on the left or right, especially with the room or hall mics. The PZM Jembe 4 patch is unusable between C4 and D4 because of the over saturated/distorted sound.

And... it took them 4 years to develop the library ! 4 years, and still some issues. Anyway, this was merely aimed at correcting your assumption. Evolution World Percussion is an absolutely awesome library, love it. Doesn't get better when it comes to what those guys did with percussions.

This isn't in defense of HS. I don't have it. But just to put a bit in perspective your request to have perfect libraries from day one when it comes to huge projects. Won't happen. And when there's indeed a lot of things to fix, it's pretty understandable that priorities will determined based on the requests. The important factor to consider is the commitment of the developers to fix things.


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## devastat (Jul 3, 2011)

To be honest, I much rather have a library with some problems (that are being fixed with future updates) than to wait for years to get a 100% polished product. You never use 100% of the library anyway..

Offcourse i am not happy either after spending much money on these libraries when I find out that they don't always work like their should, but I do mostly trust on these companies to work continuously to improve their instruments.. If I wouldn't I would not buy their products. If the instrument doesn't function 100% (and which ever does?) it still doesn't prevent me from using it in my compositions, which I could not if it would be locked away waiting to be 100% proofed.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 3, 2011)

Yes. I do agree with you guys on that side of things. I'm just stating what bothers me on the other. 

I didn't notice those issues in EVO, might take another look.. Hmm? Everyone sounds ok to me at least. I just didn't notice anything that really stuck out which would be very noticeable in a mix point of view, and yes, It's a fantastic library and other than that, I can still tell they took alot of care on what they were doing. 

The ideas that went behind HS were amazing aswell. It's crazy because the way they designed it was exactly how I'd like to work with a string library, aside from what it seems mt personal issues.


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## jamwerks (Jul 3, 2011)

Well I’ll jump in with my 2 cents. For the record, the only EW product I own is Spaces (terrific), but I plan to buy HS & HB in the near future.

True, no SW product is ever perfect, but I guess it’s where you choose to draw the line. Releasing HS with serious tuning issues in the Violas, & purposely skipping that instrument in the official tutorials, is really pushing it. What goes to EW credit, is that with Play & HS, EW was very ambitions & pushing the limits, all to make it performant, and musical.

I understand that doing Play 3 & then launching HB (to get to bucks flowing) have priority, but after that, the stuff should be fixed. And Nick did say somewhere I think, that end of July, they would do just that!

Although I use and enjoy VIP, and like many of the features, it’s really prehistoric compared to Play in that Plays seems to be doing tons of stuff behind the scenes that make it faster to achieve results. VIP really does nothing behind the scenes and I increasingly fine that I spend too much time "programming" with VSL products.


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## Dominik Raab (Jul 3, 2011)

Comparing World Percussion (great product, I have it) and Hollywood Strings seems a little bit off to me.

First of all: There are engine problems with World Percussion. Not all of us have them, but for some people Best Service Engine 2 is totally messed up, at least the 64bit version. "Everything fine" may be right for the sample side, the patches are perfect, but the engine... dear lord. Still a wonderful product!

HS has a loooot more scripting going on than any percussion library. I'd never compare a percussion library to something like a huge string library.


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## bwherry (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi all,

Just wanted to follow up on the 2nd Violins Shorts MOD SPEED patch problem I mentioned before, with the support case having been closed, etc. I made sure CC11 was also set to 127 for each articulation (mod wheel range) - no difference. I made an audio example (and image of the MIDI data) as well:

http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/hs-2nd-vi ... horts-mod/

Here's the 1st Violins Shorts MOD SPEED patch, playing the same MIDI data, for comparison:

http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/hs-1st-vi ... horts-mod/
(note: the 1st Violins Shorts MOD SPEED patch doesn't have the same set of articulations as the 2nd Violins Shorts MOD SPEED patch, but you can at least get an idea of how the MOD SPEED patch is supposed to work from this one...)

I welcome any HS users to reproduce this problem (and maybe contact EW about it to get it back on their "to fix someday" list).

Brian


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## bwherry (Jul 3, 2011)

bwherry @ Wed Jun 29 said:


> I downloaded and installed the HS 2.0 update and checked each of the problems I had come across previously (and reported to EW). One has been fixed. One is a little bit better. The remaining four problems are still there. And there's a new problem. The run-down:
> 
> Celli Leg Slur + Port LT 6 Ni note disappears:
> http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/hs-celli- ... r-port-rr/
> This has been fixed! Yay!



Update: No, this hasn't been fixed. When I tested this after the 2.0 update I must have grabbed just a leg slur and not a leg + port. Oops. It's still totally broken in the Celli Leg Slur + Port LT 6 Ni.

Brian


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 3, 2011)

bwherry @ Sun Jul 03 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just wanted to follow up on the 2nd Violins Shorts MOD SPEED patch problem I mentioned before, with the support case having been closed, etc. I made sure CC11 was also set to 127 for each articulation (mod wheel range) - no difference. I made an audio example (and image of the MIDI data) as well:
> 
> ...



I can confirm this Brian and I will pass it on.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 3, 2011)

bwherry @ Sun Jul 03 said:


> bwherry @ Wed Jun 29 said:
> 
> 
> > I downloaded and installed the HS 2.0 update and checked each of the problems I had come across previously (and reported to EW). One has been fixed. One is a little bit better. The remaining four problems are still there. And there's a new problem. The run-down:
> ...



I am getting this on some attempts but not others, it is very inconsistent. Once again, I will pass it on.


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## bwherry (Jul 3, 2011)

Thanks Jay! Much appreciated.

Brian


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## Nick Phoenix (Jul 3, 2011)

percussion is a piece of cake compared to strings. I speak from personal experience. If I do another percussion library, it will be more complex than SD2, but this is still nothing compared to strings. Anyway there are many factors that lead us to release an imperfectly programmed library. and it has nothing to do with laziness, greed or malice. The short story is we made way too many programs, so it would run on various systems and to satisfy comments from beta testers. Never again. The first version of the brass will be simpler. Luckily it runs well in PLAY 3, so we don't need 5 versions of a solo legato horn.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 4, 2011)

Cheers for clearing that up Nick.


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## bwherry (Jul 4, 2011)

So I was working on a cue today, using Hollywood Strings' sustain patches, as I've adopted them for use in my template (whee!), but found that the attacks were a little too slow for a particular phrase, which had steadily moving 1/4 notes at 120bpm. I figured I might as well give the legatos a shot, since I haven't tried using them musically since I got the 2.0 update.

The results were not pretty.

I used three "legato slur LT 6" patches (1st violins, 2nd violins, and violas). The legato transitions were jumping out all over the place. Really bad. I later (just now) made a very methodical example showing just how bad it can get:

http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/hs-2nd-vi ... o-slur-lt6

^^^ this example was with the 2nd violins legato slur LT 6 patch, but in the cue these types of volume jumps were happening with the 1st violins and violas as well (legato slur LT 6). The transitions over certain CC1 ranges are pretty smooth, but others are terrible. As Hollywood Strings was released about a year and five months ago and has had many updates, I'm a little bit amazed there are still patches that behave this poorly. :shock: 

Maybe it's just certain note transitions that are problematic? Maybe the higher voice count patches have completely smooth legato transitions for all note intervals and all CC1 ranges? I still need to try them with a test like this. But the legato slur LT 6 patches are mighty disappointing - 'cause they're unusable. :( 

Brian


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## NYC Composer (Jul 4, 2011)

First of all, I want to compliment Nick and the EW team for stepping up to the plate and acknowledging problems without responding aggressively as they have done in the past. In my view, this is a major step in the right direction, and one I've wanted to see for a good while.

The blessing/curse of EW is that they are always trying to push the envelope. If their reach exceeds their grasp sometimes, well, it's moving the technology forward, and in the long run the technology catches up and many of the programming bugs are ironed out. Meanwhile, the musicality behind the recording and programming is always, always stellar.


I don't own HW yet, but I will. I'm loathe to buy 1.0, or even 2.0 of anything. Six months from now, this will be a more mature product, and I'll be more likely to buy it. To expect an enterprise of this magnitude to be perfect out of the gate, or anywhere close, is unreasonable in my view. However, with all those patches, if you need to have the latest thing NOW, you spend time learning how it's organized, use the patches that work or can be worked around, and report bugs to the developers. Ultimately, it will get sorted.....and Play 3 is a big step forward in cutting down load times, at least on my older EW libraries.

HS will get there. Eager to hear HB.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

bwherry @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> So I was working on a cue today, using Hollywood Strings' sustain patches, as I've adopted them for use in my template (whee!), but found that the attacks were a little too slow for a particular phrase, which had steadily moving 1/4 notes at 120bpm. I figured I might as well give the legatos a shot, since I haven't tried using them musically since I got the 2.0 update.
> 
> The results were not pretty.
> 
> ...




Yep. This it what happened to me too. On some transitions you get that annoying noticeable bump, and if anyone were using HS, I could tell its HS from a mile off. However, these patches are not unusable, but yes.. Quite unpleasing to the ear when that happens. I'm just putting up with it and also adjusting cc11 and cc1 to make the transition quieter before it starts playing. However, when you want to play very loud, this problem becomes somewhat more problematic.

Hang in there, these will be looked at soon.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2011)

bwherry @ Mon Jul 04 said:


> So I was working on a cue today, using Hollywood Strings' sustain patches, as I've adopted them for use in my template (whee!), but found that the attacks were a little too slow for a particular phrase, which had steadily moving 1/4 notes at 120bpm. I figured I might as well give the legatos a shot, since I haven't tried using them musically since I got the 2.0 update.
> 
> The results were not pretty.
> 
> ...



Brian, I am confused. With this patch on my rig with the mod wheel set to 0, there is no sound. I tried a regimented CC1 and CC11 like it says you did and could not get a commensurate result. 

So then I just played in something similar:
http://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/hs-2ns- ... r-lt6-test

A you know, I am not reluctant to try to verify bad patches but this one seems fine to me. Are you sure you are using the latest ones? Remember, if you are working from a template that was created before they were installed it remembers the older ones.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

Jay. Do you have an SSD?


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> Jay. Do you have an SSD?



No, I don't. I am running it off a second 7200 WD Caviar Black with a 64 MB cache, just like the one HS ships on.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

Hmm.. Then I have no idea then. I mean I can produce this, but you can't, just seems odd.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> Hmm.. Then I have no idea then. I mean I can produce this, but you can't, just seems odd.



Well, maybe either you or Brian can send me the MIDI file.


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## bwherry (Jul 5, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> Brian, I am confused. With this patch on my rig with the mod wheel set to 0, there is no sound.



You must have been using one of the "Ni" (al niente) patches, which are silent with CC1 at 0. I was using "2nd Violins Leg Slur LT 6" (found in the "7 Legato" folder) whereas you were probably using "2nd Violins Leg Slur LT 6 Ni" (found in the "07 Legato Slur + Port" folder).

I'll check out your example later on (when my DAW won't prevent my browser from accessing the audio hardware). I did try my example with the 2nd Violins Leg Slur LT 6 Ni patch and it didn't seem quite as jumpy. It wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible either. I much prefer the "not Ni" patches, though, as I like having CC1=0 to be super soft (but not silent) and using CC11 for an additional volume envelope as needed.



EastWest Lurker @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> A you know, I am not reluctant to try to verify bad patches but this one seems fine to me. Are you sure you are using the latest ones? Remember, if you are working from a template that was created before they were installed it remembers the older ones.



Yes, this example was made using a brand new patch chosen from the browser. It was NOT previously created for a project or template.

I just did another test using 2nd violins legato slur LT 12 and the results were just as disastrous. Since that one uses CC1 to control the amount of vibrato and CC11 for the dynamics for simplicity I just set CC1 to 0 (no vibrato) and checked that one C4-to-B3 transition for many levels of CC11. In many of the CC11 ranges the legato transition jumps way out like it does with the LT 6 patch.

...and I just did another test of "2nd violins legato slur" (from the "8 Legato Powerful System" folder). It's just as bad as LT 6 and LT 12. I also tested some of the "Ni" leg slur patches (LT 6, LT 12, powerful system) and they were pretty bad too (although quieter in the lower CC1/CC11 ranges).

A quick check of various 1st violins legato slur patches yielded the same results.

I would really love to find one usable legato slur patch for each section. Or heck, for _one_ section. LT 6, LT 12, powerful system, whatever it takes. Anyone?

Brian


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

Brian. Could you please give us a midi file of that same track you put up on soundcloud?


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## bwherry (Jul 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> Hmm.. Then I have no idea then. I mean I can produce this, but you can't, just seems odd.



Maybe Jay is using Play 3 and it fixes some of this stuff? (*fingers tightly crossed*) Jay?


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## bwherry (Jul 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> Brian. Could you please give us a midi file of that same track you put up on soundcloud?



Sure, just give me a minute...


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2011)

bwherry @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Tue Jul 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Brian, I am confused. With this patch on my rig with the mod wheel set to 0, there is no sound.
> ...



No I was not although in my case I could only find that patch in the 11 Legacy folder for some reason.

Send me the NIDI file because I have lots of usable patches legato slurs patches here


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2011)

bwherry @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> Dan-Jay @ Tue Jul 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm.. Then I have no idea then. I mean I can produce this, but you can't, just seems odd.
> ...



errr. yes I am. Hmmmm.


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## Pedro Camacho (Jul 5, 2011)

(deleted) the reply I did was for another post


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Wed Jul 06 said:


> bwherry @ Tue Jul 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Dan-Jay @ Tue Jul 05 said:
> ...



AHA!

This could be why... well... at least I'm hoping it is.


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## bwherry (Jul 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> Brian. Could you please give us a midi file of that same track you put up on soundcloud?



Here ya go (attached).

This test will only work for the LT6 patches (dynamics on CC1). It's easy enough to create a similar example for testing the LT 12 and powerful system patches - just set CC1 (vibrato amount) to some fixed value (like 0) and bump up CC11 a certain amount before each repeat.


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## bwherry (Jul 5, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> ... in my case I could only find that patch in the 11 Legacy folder for some reason.



Interesting. I was wondering about this a bit - for every instrument section in the browser I have both an "01 Long" folder that has all "Ni" patches and a "1 Long" that has non-Ni patches. And both "02 Long Powerful System" and "2 Long Powerful System", again, where the "02" has "Ni" patches and "2" has non-Ni. The contents of the shorts folders, both tight and loose, appear to be the same ("03 Short Tight" appears to be the same as "3 Short Tight", etc.). Is your folder structure also like this, or is it different?


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## bwherry (Jul 5, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> ...
> So then I just played in something similar:
> http://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/hs-2ns- ... r-lt6-test
> 
> ...



I just went to check this out - no dice. Did you accidentally make it private? Or remove it?


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm uploading the same file now. I seem to have no issues. It's a little bumpy, but you aren't really moving the mod wheel much when the next transition starts. If you dip the mod wheel a little before the next transition hits, it should be smooth. Try that.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

Ok so. I pretty much tried to smooth it out as much as I could because yes, I get the bumps on certain transitions when I haven't moved the mod wheel down before the next note starts.

However, some transitions you will hear in my demo, I have moved the mod wheel and I still can;t get rid of the bump. It seems the louder it get's the harder it is to get rid of it.

http://soundcloud.com/destaana/lt-6-patch


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2011)

OK, so even with the non- N one I still get no sound with the mod wheel at 0 so I bumped the values up a little and here is what I get:
http://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/leg-slu ... rians-midi


Then I simply played in something similar from scratch and this is what I get (sorry Brian I had removed it.)

http://soundcloud.com/jay-asher/hs-2ns- ... r-lt6-test


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

Well Jay. In that first example, those bumps are very prominent when going from note to note. Agree?

EDIT: and the second.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> Well Jay. In that first example, those bumps are very prominent when going from note to note. Agree?
> 
> EDIT: and the second.



Yes, but once again, i would never add the controller information in the manner Brian did. There is nothing in the second example that bothers me. It sounds human and very musical to me.

Let Ashermusic speak here for a moment (sorry Luca, I know this drives you nuts

I am a good keyboard player. I play things in real time 97% of the time. I do the same for controller info most of the time. My whole way of assessing and choosing libraries is how they respond to that approach.

iam also extremely flexible in using libraries. If I try something and it does not work in a way that I like, I simply do something else. This is not only true of every library I use, it is the way I have always approached live players.

Bottom line is EastWest Lurker is happy to run any tests you guys like to see if I can reproduce the issues and when I can reproduce them, pass them on because that is part of my job in my view.

But the composer Ashermusic has enough really great sounding playable HS patches to his ears that he does not give a crap about most of this. That said, I would gratefully accept a donation of a powerful PC with 2 SSd drives


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

So Jay Asher doesn't care about his demo sounding so bump?

Well i suppose you use what works in a library, but there's a difference between making the library work the way you want it to, than having to work the way the library wants you to. Pretty frustrating that Brian will have to find another patch that behaves better because the one he WANTS to use isn't like the others. Pretty stupid if you agree or not.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> So Jay Asher doesn't care about his demo sounding so bump?
> 
> Well i suppose you use what works in a library, but there's a difference between making the library work the way you want it to, than having to work the way the library wants you to. Pretty frustrating that Brian will have to find another patch that behaves better because the one he WANTS to use isn't like the others. Pretty stupid if you agree or not.



I have no problem in dealing with it. The same is apparently true for SvK, Craig Sharmat and John Graham, 3 pretty damn good composers. The same is true for TJ and Nick, two pretty damn good composers. The same is apparently true for countless others form what I hear.

Dan-Jay, I am not going to keep having this argument with you. You know what I wrote you privately and I still maintain it is true.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

As a composer. I give a crap about it. I feel for the ones who are having trouble with getting things to work right on their systems because that's happened to me too.

I have nice playable patches too (in HS), but these issues need to be sorted out.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> As a composer. I give a crap about it. I feel for the ones who are having trouble with getting things to work right on their systems because that's happened to me too.
> 
> I have nice playable patches too (in HS), but these issues need to be sorted out.



In several posts Nick wrote that the patches will be sorted out over time, with priority being given to the ones most users seem to care about. I In several posts I wrote that EW is committed to continuing to do this year after year so that people can have this library for a long, long time.

if that is not good enough for you, I am sorry.

I am through responding to you.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 5, 2011)

No It's fine. I like that this is being looked at. I was just making a point.


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## bwherry (Jul 5, 2011)

It's not even that there's a certain patch I really prefer - I'd settle for _any_ legato patch that didn't have huge volume jumps on the transitions. I just haven't yet found one for which that is not the case. LT 6, LT 12, powerful system, Ni, no Ni, ... I guess I ought to go through the slur + port, BC, etc. as well... 

As can be heard in my example there are certain CC1 ranges in which transitions are actually pretty smooth, with no apparent volume jumps. I could _probably_ find this "sweet spot" for every transition in every instrument in every cue and set the CC1 value for maximum smoothness, then compensate using CC11 and/or CC7 to try to get "the dynamics I really wanted." This would obviously take *forever* - and might sound a little odd when the strongest dynamics are playing at a lower volume level. Maybe that's what the guys Jay mentioned are doing?

I'll have, say, four weeks to score a feature film. To get the thing done on time, to the director's satisfaction I need to "get it wrong as soon as possible." I need to get the basic idea to the director for an initial approval of "yes, I like that direction" or "no, that's too <whatever>." Only after the initial idea is approved will I want to take a lot of time to really fine-tune the orchestration, make sure every little transition is super smooth, etc. Why do all that ahead of time if it's not the right music in the first place? It would be wasted effort. I may think the music is right for a scene, based on what I thought was needed but the director may want a different emotional response from the audience, may want a different sense of tension, a different amount of movement/action, etc. It's a collaboration. This is very different from music written for music's sake, where it's strictly exactly what the composer wants. In a collaborative process you want a lot of fast iteration for course corrections. But you don't want the director to get hung up on _problems_. Jumpy legato intervals, notes out of tune, etc. will prevent him from taking in the overall picture, as those things will stick out. I have no problem sending a director a version that isn't _perfect_ but I won't send something that's _not even passable_. And the time investment required to get something passable in this case is simply not worth making.

Once a cue is approved I suppose I could swap out whatever strings I was using in the sketches for HS patches, and do all the super fine tuning of the CC data to get things to sound as smooth as possible. But ideally that shouldn't be necessary.

This is where I'm coming from... I'm aware that most people reading this forum likely understand the differences between music for picture and music for music, but I wanted to relate our discussion of these HS problems to a practical, real-world workflow. Being able to get musical ideas out of my head and into the director's ears as quickly as possible, without him being distracted by "quirks" is of paramount importance. I have no doubt that many folks have been able to take the time to massage the controller data as needed to make the Hollywood Strings legato patches sound wonderfully smooth. I can take the time to do it as well. I just won't early on, because it's not worth it. I hope this makes sense.

Brian


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm using Play 3, and I use the Powerful System patches and I don't really have this. That being said, I have an EWI, so I naturally curve the velocity down before each note.

EDIT: I will try yours and post my results when I get done (HS Gold)


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## Chaim (Jul 19, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Jul 05 said:


> In several posts Nick wrote that the patches will be sorted out over time, with priority being given to the ones most users seem to care about. I In several posts I wrote that EW is committed to continuing to do this year after year so that people can have this library for a long, long time.



Is it possible that from the updated patches, only the Main mics were updated?

I use allot the close mics, and patch: 2nd vlns Marc leg slur + port LT6 Ni - close mics - the sound is pretty low at the beginning (of legato played notes) and then swells pretty loud.

I hope this gets looked at soon.


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## Nick Phoenix (Jul 19, 2011)

I use HS ever day and have since it came out and have zero problems with the slur legato patches. Especially now with the update. But I don't use every patch obviously and I use the mid tree mostly. If there is a specific patch that has problems send it to tech support. That way we can fix the actual program you are having a problem with. We will look at the bow change legatos in the next update. Keep in mind that bow change is BOW CHANGE. meaning there will be a bump.


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## bwherry (Jul 19, 2011)

Hey Nick, since there's a chance you're monitoring this thread...

Have the "non-Ni" patches been effectively discontinued? Or support for them stopped? I really appreciate the simple usability of the "LT 6" patches (w/ mod wheel for dynamics and expression for an additional volume envelope) and the "NV NV VB VB" sustains, but if I recall correctly none of those was updated for 2.0 (and Jay Asher mentioned he's only got those in the legacy folder).

Thanks,

Brian


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## Dan Mott (Jul 19, 2011)

Nick Phoenix @ Wed Jul 20 said:


> I use HS ever day and have since it came out and have zero problems with the slur legato patches. Especially now with the update. But I don't use every patch obviously and I use the mid tree mostly. If there is a specific patch that has problems send it to tech support. That way we can fix the actual program you are having a problem with. We will look at the bow change legatos in the next update. Keep in mind that bow change is BOW CHANGE. meaning there will be a bump.



Thank you


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## Chaim (Jul 20, 2011)

On the above mentioned patch: The mid mics are a bit better but the close mics need a serious look closer. It's really annoying.

Main mics are fine.

Here is the patch (main mics default)

https://www.yousendit.com/download/cnJp ... V0R2Wmc9PQ

I have submitted this to Tech support.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 20, 2011)

Nick. Not being as ass here, but maybe you could tell us users what patches you are using that aren't so problematic as you describe. Maybe the rest of us are using different patches to you which is why people are finding issues in the ones you aren't using. Would be interesting that's all, because if you have no problems, then I'd really like to try the patches you are working with.


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## bwherry (Jul 20, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Wed Jul 20 said:


> Nick. Not being as ass here, but maybe you could tell us users what patches you are using that aren't so problematic as you describe. Maybe the rest of us are using different patches to you which is why people are finding issues in the ones you aren't using. Would be interesting that's all, because if you have no problems, then I'd really like to try the patches you are working with.



+1

I'm still looking for simple legato slur patches that don't have level jumps on transitions.

Brian


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## alligatorlizard (Jul 20, 2011)

+1 
I'm guessing. the new Pro templates are all revised patches? I'm still having to move everything legato ahead of the beat by varying ammounts. Is this just always going tobe the case with legato transitionsk? If technically there has to be this lag then please let me know, otherwise would be nice to see this fixed. New play great BTW, but hasn't fixed HS programming issues.


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## Dominik Raab (Jul 21, 2011)

alligatorlizard @ Wed 20 Jul said:


> +1
> I'm guessing. the new Pro templates are all revised patches? I'm still having to move everything legato ahead of the beat by varying ammounts. Is this just always going tobe the case with legato transitionsk? If technically there has to be this lag then please let me know, otherwise would be nice to see this fixed. New play great BTW, but hasn't fixed HS programming issues.



As far as I know, this lag has to be there. The transitions cannot start BEFORE you hit the key, as PLAY cannot read your mind - yet. :D
As soon as you press a key, the transition starts. The "new" note will be somewhere in the middle of that process.
It works for me (with the same velocity -> same legato speed) to just move everything (except notes without transitions) ahead by the same amount.


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## alligatorlizard (Jul 21, 2011)

I realise this much, but it sounds to me like the transition happens not when you play the note, but slightly after. Maybe the wait before the note is a quick crossfade hence necessary?

But yes, it can all be moved forward, though I do find different sections require more or less adjusting, which can get fiddly. I know this is getting into fine tuning the product tho, overall I have to say it's working pretty well, am having no major problems with the patches in the PRO folders, which I am assuming to be the "safest" ones at the moment!


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 21, 2011)

I have spent some time this morning experimenting with the Sustain KS patches in the Long folder and I am finding that if I turn on theLegato script and EQ them a little, I can get surprisingly close sonically to the Legato Slur patches.

Since my 2.66 Quad Core is somewhat under-powered for HS, these may well work for me in a lot of compositional situations

Curious to see what others think.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 21, 2011)

Nick. Please let us know what Leg patch you are using. I'd really like to experiment with it.

Not like it's giving away any secrets....... right?


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## Dan Mott (Jul 22, 2011)

and yes... all the patches in the PRO folder are really nice actually.


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## devastat (Jul 22, 2011)

What do you guys think of the 1st Violins Leg Slur + Port LT 12 Ni patch? For some reason I am unable to load this in HS.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 22, 2011)

devastat @ Fri Jul 22 said:


> What do you guys think of the 1st Violins Leg Slur + Port LT 12 Ni patch? For some reason I am unable to load this in HS.



Me too.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 22, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Jul 21 said:


> I have spent some time this morning experimenting with the Sustain KS patches in the Long folder and I am finding that if I turn on theLegato script and EQ them a little, I can get surprisingly close sonically to the Legato Slur patches.
> 
> Since my 2.66 Quad Core is somewhat under-powered for HS, these may well work for me in a lot of compositional situations
> 
> Curious to see what others think.



Anyone else try these?


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## devastat (Jul 22, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jul 22 said:


> devastat @ Fri Jul 22 said:
> 
> 
> > What do you guys think of the 1st Violins Leg Slur + Port LT 12 Ni patch? For some reason I am unable to load this in HS.
> ...



So this patch is a common problem in HS? (Not only in my computer)


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 22, 2011)

devastat @ Fri Jul 22 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jul 22 said:
> 
> 
> > devastat @ Fri Jul 22 said:
> ...



Yes. Email me and I will send you the working patch.

[email protected]


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## devastat (Jul 22, 2011)

It's working now, Thanks!


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## David Gosnell (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm not sure whether this will help anyone else - but I just had a bit of a Eureka moment!

I'm one of those guys who bought HS at full price and then found I kept trying to use it in projects but ended up doing the substitution thing EW Lurker suggested (in my case, using L**S instead) when I couldn't get it to play the notes I wanted to (legato; inconsitent note lengths, occasional drop-outs, lumpy when you ride C1 & C11 etc. etc.)

Met a guy last week at an orchestration seminar who said he had none of those problems, so I figured I ought to give it one last try considering the size of the investment. I won't bore you with all the things I tried - but in the end, hard drive speed proved irrelevant, what fixed the problem was an adjustment in latency.

At 2048 samples the legatos (via VE Pro - though it wasn't much better directly in Cubase) were playing what they felt like - and they obviously were in a lumpy mood. At 512 there was a noticeable improvement and at 286, they sound great! Not only did the samples respond to what I was doing, the attacks and releases were much smoother.

I now need to find a way to reconfigure my full orchestra template fx to cope with a 286 latency (hopefully cutting down busses from 16 to 6 might work) and then I might have a chance to add HS back into my template!

Hope it helps some of you with some issues - if not, sorry to have interrupted the flame war :wink: 

D.


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## bwherry (Jul 29, 2011)

David (Gosnell),

Any chance you could make some audio clips illustrating what you've found? Like just a simple part using one instrument that has audible problems (a "lumpy" legato, perhaps?) with a buffer size of 2048 samples, then the same part at 1024-, 512-, and 256-sample buffers? I'd love to hear it.

Brian


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## tabulius (Jul 30, 2011)

bwherry @ Fri Jul 29 said:


> David (Gosnell),
> 
> Any chance you could make some audio clips illustrating what you've found? Like just a simple part using one instrument that has audible problems (a "lumpy" legato, perhaps?) with a buffer size of 2048 samples, then the same part at 1024-, 512-, and 256-sample buffers? I'd love to hear it.
> 
> Brian



My wild guess is that you couldn't hear it from audio clip. It just affects the playing feeling. I usually use 256 sample buffers when composing, but after I start mixing, I usually have to raise the buffer a bit.


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## David Gosnell (Jul 30, 2011)

Hi Chaps,

In my original experiment I was playing back a simple sequence programmed in Cubase which involved a bit of vibrato / xfade pumping and included quavers (1/8 notes!) at 90bpm - so it wasn't really about the playing feeling, you could hear the difference in an audio file.

I'm afraid I'm in the middle of a project at the moment for which I can't really unload the template to produce the examples you request, but I'll try to get them up asap when the projects done. Not sure how educational it will be as latency may be the symptom for me but the disease may lie elsewhere. A different PC with different mobo, processor, RAM, hard-drives etc., won't necessarily produce identical results. I just posted my experience in case others who were having problems hadn't thought to try latency adjustment as a potential solution.

Cheers,

D.


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## Dan Mott (Aug 4, 2011)

Is anyone else finding the violas slur patches too bumpy? Because I am and it's annoying. Also, is anyone else having timing issues, where you have to put your notes really far back for it to be in time?

I'm still having these issues. I wondering if anyone else is too?


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## David Gosnell (Aug 4, 2011)

> Also, is anyone else having timing issues, where you have to put your notes really far back for it to be in time?




That was the thing that low latency fixed for me - at higher latencies it was a case of 'slow, slower, miss-one, quick quick, run-on-for-a-bit-after-the-note end and suddenly LOUD ...

I still routinely add a -145ms predelay to HS though for it to be in time with stuff from other libraries.


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## alligatorlizard (Aug 4, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Thu 04 Aug said:


> Is anyone else finding the violas slur patches too bumpy? Because I am and it's annoying. Also, is anyone else having timing issues, where you have to put your notes really far back for it to be in time?
> 
> I'm still having these issues. I wondering if anyone else is too?



I'm pretty sure everyone's having these issues. I am. Several other HS users I know are. All on different systems/setups. This was advertised as being fixed in the update, but it wasn't. As for setting up an offset for HS in relation to other libraries, certainly not a bad idea, but not all patches/articulations are equally behind the beat. Makes the whole thing very fiddly. Fiddliest library I ever did use. 

I've asked this before where this issue has come up, and will try again - is this "behind-the-beatedness" simply inevitable in legato patches? Is a certain ammount of time needed to crossfade the previous note with the subsequent transition for example? And if so, does it really need this long? And if it does, could this crossfade time at least be standardised throughout the library, in all patches/sections/articulations so we _could_ effectively put a time offset accross the whole thing? 

I'm really just guessing here tho - if anyone can provide a clear technical answer to these questions that would be great!


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 4, 2011)

From EW:

We suggest reading the manual regarding the Legato patches specifically... there is a script in there that controls the 'speed' of the transition... in many cases this is dictated by velocity, and in other cases it is dictates by how fast the user is actually playing... for instance starting around page 52 of the manual:

_Slur + Portamento: In this patch, the MIDI velocity controls the speed of the interval; the smaller the Velocity (in its range from 1 to 127), the more slowly the pitch moves from one note to the next; faster transitions use more of a slur while slower transitions are a full portamento with a very audible slide in the pitch from one note to the next. Because of that use for Velocity, you cannot use Velocity to affect dynamics; use CC 11 instead. Because CC 11 cross-fades between dynamic layers, you can change loudness and tim- bre in the middle of a note. In addition, the Mod Wheel (CC 1) controls the vibrato for the sustained portion of the note.

The behaviors described above are the default behaviors in which PLAY is using scripts to decide which samples to use. If you want more control of which notes use Bow Change and which use the Slur or Portamento, then click on the Other button in the Player view to turn it off; then use MIDI Control Code 14 instead. If CC14 is in the range 64–127 you will hear bow change samples; in the range 0–63, the slur or portamento samples. You can create a CC14 envelope in a sequencer or assign that MIDI Control Code to a slider or knob you plan to operate manually.
_

The various types are described in there more thoroughly. So please be aware that your playing speed and velocity levels have an effect on the transition speed.

Hopefully, this is at least somewhat helpful.


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## Dan Mott (Aug 4, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Aug 05 said:


> From EW:
> 
> We suggest reading the manual regarding the Legato patches specifically... there is a script in there that controls the 'speed' of the transition... in many cases this is dictated by velocity, and in other cases it is dictates by how fast the user is actually playing... for instance starting around page 52 of the manual:
> 
> ...




EDIT:

Even if the speed is at it's fastest, it's still too slow and even when playing slower pieces, it's also still too slow. Just my experience


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 4, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Thu Aug 04 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Aug 05 said:
> 
> 
> > From EW:
> ...



Others may or may not.


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## Dan Mott (Aug 4, 2011)

All this can be worked around. However, In my opinion it's quite an unneccessary work around. You are writing a piece, but at the same time trying to get rid of the bumps by drawing really odd CC data and pushing the notes really far back.

It's quite tedious working with the library sometimes. Would others agree still? Or maybe It's me?

Just saying.


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## bwherry (Aug 4, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Thu Aug 04 said:


> All this can be worked around. However, In my opinion it's quite an unneccessary work around. You are writing a piece, but at the same time trying to get rid of the bumps by drawing really odd CC data and pushing the notes really far back.
> 
> It's quite tedious working with the library sometimes. Would others agree still? Or maybe It's me?



It's definitely not just you.

Brian


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## Mahlon (Aug 4, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Thu Aug 04 said:


> All this can be worked around. However, In my opinion it's quite an unneccessary work around. You are writing a piece, but at the same time trying to get rid of the bumps by drawing really odd CC data and pushing the notes really far back.
> 
> It's quite tedious working with the library sometimes. Would others agree still? Or maybe It's me?
> 
> Just saying.



Jeez Louize, I'm glad I'm using LASS, but it's no picnic either in terms of getting the bumps out, I can tell you.

Mahlon


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## bwherry (Aug 4, 2011)

Mahlon @ Thu Aug 04 said:


> Jeez Louize, I'm glad I'm using LASS, but it's no picnic either in terms of getting the bumps out, I can tell you.
> 
> Mahlon



Do you have this problem?
http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/lass-lega ... ote-level/

And/or this one?
http://soundcloud.com/bwherry/lass-weir ... mps-w-cc1/

Or something else?

Just curious...

Brian


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## alligatorlizard (Aug 5, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri 05 Aug said:


> From EW:
> 
> We suggest reading the manual regarding the Legato patches specifically... there is a script in there that controls the 'speed' of the transition... in many cases this is dictated by velocity, and in other cases it is dictates by how fast the user is actually playing... for instance starting around page 52 of the manual:
> 
> ...



Jay Asherlurker, I really don't know - maybe you do genuinely intend to be helpful... but I've seen so many posts now where you've completely hijacked the thread, told people they're imagining the errors they're reporting etc. Usually you do eventually come around and admit they're right, but it's a long and painful process. Puts me off even posting in many cases. Puts me off EW software unfortunately, even though I realise you're only indirectly involved with them.

Maybe I'm being harsh, maybe you're busy with other stuff, and don't have the time to read peoples posts clearly, re-create the errors accurately, reply tactfully... but really, do you seriously think the issues we're talking about here are due to us not realising that velocity affects legato speed? I mean, have you used this software ever? Even with top velocities, on the slur leg patches from the latest update, notes will need moving around by significant ammounts to sound on the beat. If you play the parts live, you'll have to play all legato notes ahead of the beat (good luck with this!!). We're all doing one or the other, or we'd be submitting cues that sounded like Gary Busey had played them. 

So once more, please - my question is, _can_ this be improved from a technical standpoint? 

I used to think that legato worked thus: as soon as you played the next note, it sounded immediately, but with a faint hint of a transition from the previous note. So there would inevitably be a very very slight delay (eg the "hint" of the transition from the previous note) but nothing that would disrupt the rythm of the music. However, I'm wondering if I'm oversimplifying here - does the next note actually need crossfading with the previous note, before the actual transition, in order for the legato to sound more convincing? And would this account for the "slow" legato in HS?

If this is the case, then so be it, we'll continue to work around it. I'm just after some more information really. More knowledge. Not more misdirection...


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## EastWest Lurker (Aug 5, 2011)

alligatorlizard @ Fri Aug 05 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri 05 Aug said:
> 
> 
> > From EW:
> ...



My job was to send them the issue and ask them for a response, which I did. They gave me a response and I posted it. I am not EW tech support or sales, I am their Online Coordinator. My (part time) job is: to deliver information from you to them and give you their response; provide information that they think you should know; help you get your technical issues to the right people when you are having problems getting results through the usual methods. That is all I signed on for.

I would like you to point me to thread where I said that people were "imagining" their issues. You won't find it. The most I have ever said is that it was perhaps a system specific issue, which sometimes it turned out it was and sometimes not, or that an issue I could not reproduce or did not bother me personally as much as it bothered some others, which was simply the truth.

As a composer, and perhaps you will see this as a failing and if so, fine, I am a pragmatist., In general, I have little interest in why certain sample libraries work as they do, I use them and if it sounds good to my ears I will work around what I have to and if I am not happy with the result, I reach for something else.

EDIT: I see Thomas has responded.


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## Dan Mott (Aug 5, 2011)

No. Good sounding legato does not sound THIS bumpy. Good sounding legato is smooth and nice, and in HS it's pretty rough in my opinion. I could tell that the string library someone used was HS from a mile off because it has that certain bumpy legato sound, not on all transitions, but most. it' seems odd that programming the legato to delay on purpose makes it more realistic??

Just my opinion. My ears and such.

Sound is great though.


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## Colin O'Malley (Aug 5, 2011)

Dan,

I'm not having the issues you are describing with HS. Not at all. Legato is very smooth and I'm using the mains, powerful patches. In the few examples I've heard you post something seems weird. It might be the way you're approaching cc1/cc11 or possibly system related. I do not think the actual programs are the issue. 

If you send me a midi file I'll look at it on my system and see if this helps you shed light on anything. 

Colin


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## alligatorlizard (Aug 5, 2011)

Thomas, many thanks for the info - I had wondered if this was the case. Like I said, if it's just the case that to get legato like this it's going to be necessary to move things around a bit, then fair enough. After all I suppose the alternative is "q-legato".... (sorry, couldn't resist!)

I remember when HS first came out there were a lot of reports of "slow" legato. The only answer I've ever seen to this until now was to tell people about the velocity-controlling-legato-speed thing. I probably wasn't the only one to push everything up to 127, and still find it slow. When really, the transitions themselves never were slow, right? Just that the legato note doesn't kick in quite immediately. 

Only thing I'd suggest then is that this length of time could be standardised throughout the library - is _this_ possible? eg I have found that 2nd violins need to be moved less than 1st violins, bow change less so than slur - or was it the other way around? Anyway, you get the point. If all we need to do is offset _all_ HS parts by a certain ammount, then this becomes really not a problem at all. 

Incidentally, I'm not finding the legato itself bumpy, it's very smooth to my ears. In fact I personally have no other criticisms of the library apart from the above, which admittedly is in the category of fine-tuning, not major problem. Would save a lot of faffing around though, if it _could_ be more consistent... anyway, suggestion made, I'm off to load up some cellos now.


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## Gerd Kaeding (Aug 5, 2011)

alligatorlizard @ Fri Aug 05 said:


> Just that the legato note doesn't kick in quite immediately.
> 
> Only thing I'd suggest then is that this length of time could be standardised throughout the library - is _this_ possible? eg I have found that 2nd violins need to be moved less than 1st violins, bow change less so than slur - or was it the other way around? Anyway, you get the point. If all we need to do is offset _all_ HS parts by a certain ammount, then this becomes really not a problem at all.



I must say that I still use the former Edition of the instruments ( 1.1 or so ) , because I actually like the way those patches behave. 
The latest updated Edition I use as an additional "option" , lets say I have to repeat the melody line several times I change between a First Edition patch and the latest one . This also gives some sort of variation . Of course this is nothing for "copy & paste" , so it requires more time to record the MIDI data for both patches . If you load both an old and a new patch in the same Player it doesn't require more RAM , because only the script changes .


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## Dan Mott (Aug 5, 2011)

Hmmm. Ok. It has to be my system then and maybe the standard drive I'm running it off. I don't know. One of these days I'll buy an SSD, then see what happens.


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## Gerd Kaeding (Aug 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Fri Aug 05 said:


> Hmmm. Ok. It has to be my system then and maybe the standard drive I'm running it off. I don't know. One of these days I'll buy an SSD, then see what happens.



Dan ,

I'm using HS also on regular drives . I use WD Caviar Blacks 1TB 64MB on Mac for HS , and I do not have/hear the issues you've mentioned. ( _Note : therefore I only use one Mic Position for one Patch at a time _)

Just a thought :
which host do you use for HS ? ( VEPRO ; ...etc. ... )


Best

Gerd


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## Dan Mott (Aug 5, 2011)

Hi. Damn. Bad news.

Um. I use Pro Tools, but I'm hosting HS in VE Pro. I get pops and clicks if all the powerful system patches are playing together, even though my VE Pro and my normal CPU usage is not even close to spiking.

I use an M-Audio Profire 610 as my audio interface. I'm certain that I'm using my CC data correctly. I use it alot. I use CC1 and CC11 and I'm constantly moving them, however I'm trying to get through obstacles, to avoid hearing bumps before the next note starts. It's always before the next transition starts. It's like daaaaaa DUM daaaaaaaa. On some transitions, and some not.


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## Gerd Kaeding (Aug 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Fri Aug 05 said:


> Hi. Damn. Bad news.
> 
> Um. I use Pro Tools, but I'm hosting HS in VE Pro. I get pops and clicks if all the powerful system patches are playing together, even though my VE Pro and my normal CPU usage is not even close to spiking.
> 
> I use an M-Audio Profire 610 as my audio interface. I'm certain that I'm using my CC data correctly. I use it alot. I use CC1 and CC11 and I'm constantly moving them, however I'm trying to get through obstacles, to avoid hearing bumps before the next note starts. It's always before the next transition starts. It's like daaaaaa DUM daaaaaaaa. On some transitions, and some not.



Well , I'm just speculating now , but :
do you have another sequencer on your system ? 
Would be interesting if you get the same (bad) results with Cubase & VEPRO , for example . ( ... are you on PC or Mac ? ) .

Does is also happen when you only have a "naked" PT session , with only one Midi Track , no Effects loaded and only one instance of VEPRO , triggering one single legato patch ?

Again ,_ I'm just speculating_ , but I think that you want too much from your system.

The combination "ProTools LE + M-Audio Drivers + _Several_ Powerful Patches (_ with demanding samples + scripts_) at once + HDD + Effects (?)" might be too much for your system, and the legato transitions won't play back correctly .

Or better : it might be too much for_ PT LE_ too handle this task.

For example :There are certain situations where Logic on Mac can't handle certain tasks , although the overall system is doing fine in that moment.


Again : pure speculation .


Best

gerd


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## Dan Mott (Aug 5, 2011)

Hi. I'm certain that it's not too much for my system. My system copes very well. More so than I expected. The CPU is like on 30% when playing all the legato patches together which is fine. I generally don't have much effects running either

I'm on a PC. 24BG RAM - I7 920 - 2.67GHz. My CPU meets the highest requirements on the HS page, except that I don't have an SSD. So I'm thinking, that can't be the problem.. right?

I'm not on PT LE. I'm on PT M-Powered 8, going to 9 soon.

I'll try a naked session and see what happens. I'll just try many things again to double check. Prehaps something might come up and I'll say "Ohhh, that's why" Or something like this.

Cheers.


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## Gerd Kaeding (Aug 5, 2011)

Dan-Jay @ Fri Aug 05 said:


> Hi. I'm certain that it's not too much for my system. My system copes very well. More so than I expected. The CPU is like on 30% when playing all the legato patches together which is fine. I generally don't have much effects running either
> 
> I'm on a PC. 24BG RAM - I7 920 - 2.67GHz. My CPU meets the highest requirements on the HS page, except that I don't have an SSD. So I'm thinking, that can't be the problem.. right?
> 
> ...




It's not necessarily that your whole system is choking , but rather that PT M-Powered might have some difficulties spreading the tasks over available cores in certain situations . Something similar also happens in Logic on Mac.

So , if you do this "naked session" test and the issue doesn't occur with one legato patch , then do the next step and try two patches , etc. .

If it also happens with just one patch in a naked session , ... well , then I don't have a clue what causes the issues ... .


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## Dan Mott (Aug 5, 2011)

Gerd Kaeding @ Sat Aug 06 said:


> Dan-Jay @ Fri Aug 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi. I'm certain that it's not too much for my system. My system copes very well. More so than I expected. The CPU is like on 30% when playing all the legato patches together which is fine. I generally don't have much effects running either
> ...







Ahhh. Interesting.

Ok. Well I uploaded an example on soundcloud. I want opinions if this sounds like bumpy legato to you, or smooth legato??

http://soundcloud.com/destaana/bumpy-or-smooth


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## Mike Connelly (Aug 8, 2011)

Do the legatos in HB have about the same amount of delay as HS or is it less?


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## nicoroy123 (Aug 8, 2011)

On thing to keep in mind: it is very important to always reset CC1 and CC11 at the beginning of each track. Specially for CC1, the legato patches may behave strangely if there is no reset. This is documented by Thomas on EW forum.


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## alligatorlizard (Aug 9, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Mon 08 Aug said:


> Do the legatos in HB have about the same amount of delay as HS or is it less?



It would be great if this delay, which TJ confirmed is necessary, could be standardised across both these libraries (and the winds one too when that arrives). As it is, it's not even standardised across HS. Obviously this doesn't stop the samples themselves being great, and great results being acheivable, but it's attention to detail in terms of ease of use, as well as sound quality, that means products like Omnisphere/Cinesamples stuff are largely spared from long threads of this ilk... 

If it was standardised, all we'd have to do is slap the same ammount of midi offset on all HS/HB tracks (in theory EW could even let us know the exact number of miliseconds to use) and then we'd have nothing left to complain about.


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## Cat (Aug 10, 2011)

+1
I think that is exactly what these fabulously sounding libraries (HS and HB) need. 
To be honest working with them (for now) is not as easy as it should be, due to different amount of "latency" (in ms) that different patches (articulations) have.




alligatorlizard @ Tue Aug 09 said:


> Mike Connelly @ Mon 08 Aug said:
> 
> 
> > Do the legatos in HB have about the same amount of delay as HS or is it less?
> ...


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