# Spitfire Audio Going Back To Direct Only Sales June 1



## synthpunk (May 26, 2017)

Per Best Service. Direct Sales Only as of June 1st.


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## Musicam (May 26, 2017)

What is this please?


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## synthpunk (May 26, 2017)




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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

Oh NO!!! Don't tell me no more Sweetwater, I have a ton of stuff queued there!


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## mc_deli (May 26, 2017)

Suggests to me that sales are so strong they don't need to be giving away a cut to resellers.


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## synthpunk (May 26, 2017)

I will miss the ease of jrrshop. Back to bank permissions and no paypal I guess.

Theories,...

Weaker usd, betting the trend continues ?

High piracy or watermark abuse from 3rd party vendors ?


Maybe @Spitfire Team or @christianhenson will care to comment?


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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

Yes the bank permissions thing is a huge pain in zee behind for me in the US. I'm surprised Spitfire doesn't accept Pay Pal.

It seems this is going to limit customers, and to me this idea appears both an odd and seemingly contrary thing for a developer to do. Why limit your distribution, and potentially alienate American customers?

I'm going to have to buy what I'm going to buy before June 1st. I really wish this wasn't happening.


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## SoNowWhat? (May 26, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> Suggests to me that sales are so strong they don't need to be giving away a cut to resellers.


I must confess this is what went through my head. And I guess on balance that's a good thing if it means SF continue to produce great libraries. It will almost certainly mean I will be paying more though SF do have their wishlist specials and occasional sales too so I can't be too glum. I want them to continue to succeed.


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## SoNowWhat? (May 26, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Yes the bank permissions thing is a huge pain in zee behind for me in the US. I'm surprised Spitfire doesn't accept Pay Pal.
> 
> It seems this is going to limit customers, and to me this idea appears both an odd and seemingly contrary thing for a developer to do. Why limit your distribution, and potentially alienate American customers?
> 
> I'm going to have to buy what I'm going to buy before June 1st. I really wish this wasn't happening.


I remember reading something recently from them re PayPal. They've had problems in the past but are trying to negotiate something that works for all parties. That was probably 3 months ago so not sure if anything has been resolved.


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## AllanH (May 26, 2017)

Spitfire is likely having to give the resellers 30% or more, so if this means a lower price for me, I'm all for it. 

I don't find buying direct especially inconvenient, and with virtual credit card numbers, it's not a big deal. PayPal would be better, of course, and my preference.


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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

PAY PAL FOR SPITFIRE, PLEASE! It would be a HUGE help.


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## Tatu (May 26, 2017)

Paul Grymaud said:


> A consequence of the Brexit ? Folks, it's dramatic !


Or a consequence of a new investment partner.

As long as they accept my credit card, I don't care.


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## JPQ (May 26, 2017)

I epitfire does this dont support Paypal. Then i cannot get them even i want. Then i focus otherways.


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## Phillip (May 26, 2017)

Another vote for PayPal


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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

Though I adore my Spitfire libraries, it seems another check mark off the list of folks who hesitate to buy their stuff because of things like not being able to demo the products, not being able to transfer the license, no subscription service.

At the same time hey, I'm a business (and many would say, musical) idiot so it's possible Spitfire knows what the heck they're doing and I'm a jackass for crying about it.


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## synthpunk (May 26, 2017)

you start to wonder when east-west begins to look kinder and gentler.


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## synthpunk (May 26, 2017)

Really? Post #2 above.



thereus said:


> Where did you hear this news?


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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

I have an update: email from support (after I wrote them crying about all this and wishing for Pay Pal) saying that, quote: "There will be changes to payment options soon...!  ". And yes, wink and all were in the reply 

Exactly how it read. The way_* I*_ read it, in the context, was "don't be surprised about upcoming good news".


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## synthpunk (May 26, 2017)

Maybe dealers were sick of dealing with SF ? Didnt some of them get the plug pulled before ?

It's a bank holiday weekend in the UK and for that matter a long weekend in the US so we may not hear if at all until next week the official line on all this.


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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

Even just accepting Pay Pal (a debit card may be too much to hope for) would make me very happy.


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## synthpunk (May 26, 2017)

30 posts and entitlement. NICE.



thereus said:


> Really... Chill dude. Man, people can be so stroppy around here. The only thing I see in Post #2 above is a [#pic] text indicating that my browser has blocked something it didn't like.


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## procreative (May 26, 2017)

Dont get me wrong, I love Spitfire products and own quite a few. Putting their passion aside (although frankly most of the devs are passionate they just dont get so steamed up on here):

They are in danger of losing what made them different...

1. Direct contact with Paul and Christian, initially this made for great feedback and made them seem like they cared about getting it right.

2. Customer loyalty was rewarded with every purchase.

Don't get me wrong I realise the company has grown, they have got busier with other things such as composing, they have investors, they only did all this to get the thing off the ground etc, etc.

They still make [some] truly great products, but at least for me, there seems to be a more faceless, corporate vibe going on and they are in danger of becoming the next East West.

Cinesamples, Spitfire, 8Dio, Orchestral Tools and more all started mainly as a response to a belief by composers that they could do sampling better and in a more approachable way.

While they acted small it worked, but its similar to how Apple and Microsoft battled the big guys (IBM and HP) rallying against slow corporate arrogance. Then became the very thing they despised.

Progress.


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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

I bought a few of the Spitfire products through Sweetwater, and I'll miss that both because of the weird bank issues and (because I'm a cheap schmuck) the three payment plan.

But I get a really good feeling from that support letter: things aren't that calamitous.


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## JPQ (May 26, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Though I adore my Spitfire libraries, it seems another check mark off the list of folks who hesitate to buy their stuff because of things like not being able to demo the products, not being able to transfer the license, no subscription service.



So true. and i also allready know their stuff is too pricey money income. and my needs are so special i feel when i prefer libs what i can test or sell if they dont work for me.


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## ryanstrong (May 26, 2017)

procreative said:


> They still make [some] truly great products, but at least for me, there seems to be a more faceless, corporate vibe going on and they are in danger of becoming the next East West.


Have you ever visited @christianhenson YouTube? Doesn't seem very faceless to me. He seems to be ever more present.


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## Zhao Shen (May 26, 2017)

procreative said:


> Dont get me wrong, I love Spitfire products and own quite a few. Putting their passion aside (although frankly most of the devs are passionate they just dont get so steamed up on here):
> 
> They are in danger of losing what made them different...
> 
> ...



I fail to see how having direct purchases only means that Spitfire is declining in the customer service/relations/satisfaction department. Coming from someone who thinks some of their products and the general hype around them is overrated, I still can't pick out an instance where they seemed indifferent to the opinions of their customers. That's pretty impressive for a company of their size and success.


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## Wunderhorn (May 26, 2017)

At least they should bring back the PayPal option. It is absolutely no fun purchasing from Spitfire when you have to have discussions with your bank each single time because it is an " international" transaction, and American banks have such a hard time being convinced that there is any civilization beyond US borders.


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## procreative (May 26, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> Have you ever visited @christianhenson YouTube? Doesn't seem very faceless to me. He seems to be ever more present.



On a personal level, cannot disagree. By faceless, I mean support is now handled by a "team". Christian and Paul used to answer support personally and be active on here. That gave them a human edge.

It is what it is, just my observations.

Ultimately its a business, there primarily to make money and pay the rent.

What they are doing is exactly what Apple did when they killed the licenses for 3rd part Macs and I have no specific problem with that. Its a shame but profit margins come first.


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## ryanstrong (May 26, 2017)

DTC or "direct to consumer" is the future. Spitfire is making the best decision here. The "wholesale" / third-party model is dying. Department stores are closing everywhere. People want to buy direct from the brands and experience a top to bottom authentic experience.


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## ryanstrong (May 26, 2017)

procreative said:


> On a personal level, cannot disagree. By faceless, I mean support is now handled by a "team". Christian and Paul used to answer support personally and be active on here. That gave them a human edge.



What's wrong with that. You will now get a full team of experts to handle multiple inquiries. It's not scalable for a CEO of a company to handle tech support. That's just silly. Sure I would have loved to have Steve Jobs' reply... "you may just need to trash your prefs" but I mean... really?




procreative said:


> What they are doing is exactly what Apple did when they killed the licenses for 3rd part Macs and I have no specific problem with that. Its a shame but profit margins come first.



Why is it a shame?


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## SpitfireSupport (May 26, 2017)

Hi Folks! I'm just popping in to this thread to say that we ARE bringing back PayPal SOON. There's a few bits and pieces to resolve before we do, but you won't have long to wait.

Ben


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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hi Folks! I'm just popping in to this thread to say that we ARE bringing back PayPal SOON. There's a few bits and pieces to resolve before we do, but you won't have long to wait.
> 
> Ben



YAY!


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## muziksculp (May 26, 2017)

*Spitfire PayPal support* would be appreciated, and very helpful.


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## procreative (May 26, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> What's wrong with that. You will now get a full team of experts to handle multiple inquiries. It's not scalable for a CEO of a company to handle tech support. That's just silly. Sure I would have loved to have Steve Jobs' reply... "you may just need to trash your prefs" but I mean... really?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you are just arguing with me for the sake of it. I did not imply a CEO should do everything but I do not think you can compare Spitfire to Apple, rather think the number of full time employees at Spitfire are somewhat lower...

Sometimes its nice to be able to make product suggestions or comments directly, something I can still do with for instance Sonokinetic.

If I now ask for example if there are any plans to add Kickstarter to HZ01, what do you think the reply will be? "I would have to ask the management" whereas in the past they would give an off the record reply as Paul and Christian could give the answer being the decision makers.

But its their business and they can do what they like, I don't have to like it.


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## emasters (May 26, 2017)

Another vote for PayPal support from Spitfire direct.


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## prodigalson (May 26, 2017)

procreative said:


> I did not imply a CEO should do everything but I do not think you can compare Spitfire to Apple, rather think the number of full time employees at Spitfire are somewhat lower...



I think that's his point, SF are trying to grow their company and at this point have decided that other people need to perform certain roles.


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## ryanstrong (May 26, 2017)

procreative said:


> I think you are just arguing with me for the sake of it.



Yeah, I have an awful lot of time on my hands to do that, but you are wrong.




procreative said:


> I do not think you can compare Spitfire to Apple



Ummm okay.....



procreative said:


> While they acted small it worked, but its similar to how Apple and Microsoft battled ....



Pretty sure you just did and that's why I made that reference.


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## lpuser (May 26, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> DTC or "direct to consumer" is the future. Spitfire is making the best decision here. The "wholesale" / third-party model is dying. Department stores are closing everywhere. People want to buy direct from the brands and experience a top to bottom authentic experience.



Apart from the fact that I think you are absolutely wrong with your assumption that people want to buy direct (unless you buy your food from Unilever or Nestle), always remember two things:

1. You might be a loser of this model too if you are (at one point or the other) involved in distribution (and there are a lot of folks who are more and more in danger of losing their jobs)

2. The retailers are doing (most of the time) a great job in advertising for the products, sometimes even more than the manufacturer if you look at local markets. Not everyone wants to read "English" newsletters or deal with foreign websites and those people make the experience as easy as possible for the locals.

Personally, I will not continue buying Spitfire Audio products, because I seriously dislike this approach. Based on the previous experiences with JRR and more, this is all about Spitfire controlling end user prices and everything else. That is a situation which is not good for the end user and not for people who´s lives depend on providing goods for local markets.

Even as a customer of one Spitfire product, I have received more infos here on this forum and from Best Service, than ever from Spitfire directly. And guess what, it was a nice touch being able to read the news in German rather than English.


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## thov72 (May 26, 2017)

I´ll never understand the american problem with bank permissions.... why?? I do this all the time.
Why promote paypal/payrobber ??


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## ryanstrong (May 26, 2017)

@lpuser I'm not absolutely wrong, you just disagree with me, which is fine, but I'm not wrong. Look up retail market trends... third-party places are dying, especially those selling niche products.



lpuser said:


> The retailers are doing (most of the time) a great job in advertising for the products



Yeah the Sweetwater walkthrough of Spitfire Chamber Strings was amazing. Also JRR's Phobos advertising video was brilliant! Hats off to these retailers and their marketing and advertising teams. Sorry for being comical but I just couldn't disagree with you more.

The power needs to be put back in to the hands of the creators. Spitfire Audio IS the artisan that crafts, designs, and creates the products. Why would you want to deal with someone other then the people who straight up made the product?


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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

thov72 said:


> I´ll never understand the american problem with bank permissions.... why?? I do this all the time.
> Why promote paypal/payrobber ??



The bank permission thing seems to be American, and it's a bummer. Besides that, may I respectfully ask why pay pal is payrobber?


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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

I know Spitfire likes surprises, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the Pay Pal thing come back to Spitfire in June. Bringing that back does make it easier for me to accept the lack of 3rd party sellers.


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## DocMidi657 (May 26, 2017)

Maybe someone can enlighten me and I am missing something but...In 2017 why on earth does any sound developer need a network of dealers or even a single dealer for a software product that they can:

1. Distribute worldwide almost instantly via a website
2. Market, educate and promote via YouTube and a Website
3. Support via phone or email or video chat
4. Accept payment electronically

If you are that talented, resourceful and smart enough to be able to create a software based product good enough to separate from us the amount of money many of us have spent on Spitfire over the years  I think one is quite competent enough to execute the 4 items listed above by themselves.


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## procreative (May 26, 2017)

ryanstrong said:


> Yeah, I have an awful lot of time on my hands to do that, but you are wrong.



Wow you're a bit of a keyboard warrior aren't you? Why are you so aggressive and full of yourself?



ryanstrong said:


> Pretty sure you just did and that's why I made that reference.



I do hope english is not your first language as you seem incapable of digesting even the most basic of information.

1. I do not "expect" a CEO (if that is what Christian calls himself) to personally respond. However I can correctly state he and Paul used to and that it was for me a better experience.

2. My comparison with Apple and Microsoft obviously went over your head as my point was their original aim was to show IBM et al up as slow to react corporate behemoths without the agility to change.

As companies grow they go from a challenger brand to a me too brand very quickly and the pitfalls of growth are the layers of command that slow down creative thinking.

Its not a case of right or wrong practice. But shouting "you are wrong" is a bit childish just because I dont agree with you.


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## DocMidi657 (May 26, 2017)

procreative said:


> I think some people forget their is a whole world outside of VIC and lots of potential customers might only hear of a developer via a 3rd party retailer they use all the time. In addition the localisation of information, currency conversion and possibly wider marketing reach of a retailer might far exceed the developer's.
> 
> Just having a good product and a website is not enough.
> 
> Spitfire did not sell via 3rd party until fairly recently, they obviously felt the sales boost was worth it then, who knows the real reason why they don't now. But maybe this new investor has a different strategy.


Good point on other customers in the world aside from VI Control. Agreed however I would bet the majority of business for this type of product is communiced thru VI control. This is a very specialized product. That's why I always get a a chuckle when I see developers get mad and say they are leaving the forum..yet they still keep advertising here. The reason they don't leave is becuse they know... where can I market and find people that will spend large sums of money on a niche type product.


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## Symfoniq (May 26, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Besides that, may I respectfully ask why pay pal is payrobber?



As someone who has done a lot of development work on payment integration, I think I can answer this one...

PayPal has a reputation of being great for buyers and lousy for sellers. Whenever there is a whiff of risk (or maybe just a complaint against your company by a disgruntled customer), PayPal freezes accounts first and asks questions later. There are are countless stories on the Internet of legitimate businesses having their funds frozen without warning, sometimes for weeks or months without resolution.

Unfortunately, at least in the US, PayPal isn't considered a bank, and so it doesn't have to comply with banking laws.

That said, as a buyer, I use PayPal often. As a seller offering a product or service, I wouldn't go near it.


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## ryanstrong (May 26, 2017)

procreative said:


> But shouting "you are wrong" is a bit childish just because I dont agree with you.


You said "I think you are just arguing with me for the sake of it." and I say... you are wrong (I'm not arguing for argue's sake). What's childish about defending myself?


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## ryanstrong (May 26, 2017)

procreative said:


> 1. I do not "expect" a CEO (if that is what Christian calls himself) to personally respond. However I can correctly state he and Paul used to and that it was for me a better experience.
> 
> 2. My comparison with Apple and Microsoft obviously went over your head as my point was their original aim was to show IBM et al up as slow to react corporate behemoths without the agility to change.


When have you had a terrible support experience from Spitfire when it wasn't Christian or Paul? I'm sure @Spitfire Team and @SpitfireSupport would be glad to help you.

Further why would you want Christian and Paul to help you? At this point I assume they are 'creative directors' and not literally building the software themselves so they, at this point, probably are not the best tech support people to be honest.


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## AdamKmusic (May 26, 2017)

This thread turned sour quickly...


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## Michael Antrum (May 26, 2017)

DocMidi657 said:


> Maybe someone can enlighten me and I am missing something but...In 2017 why on earth does any sound developer need a network of dealers or even a single dealer for a software product that they can:
> 
> 1. Distribute worldwide almost instantly via a website
> 2. Market, educate and promote via YouTube and a Website
> ...



Because these dealers can reach customers who have never heard of you, nor you of them. Many companies like JRR send mailshots out to their client base which has been built up over very many years. If you are new to the market, or you don't have a high profile presence in the market it can be very difficult, particularly in the early years.


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## nulautre (May 26, 2017)

Well at least this thread is entertaining...


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## Parsifal666 (May 26, 2017)

nulautre said:


> Well at least this thread is entertaining...



Bill Hader rules! SNL is my show!


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## Jimmy Hellfire (May 26, 2017)

Can't say I'm happy about this. Purchasing via re-seller was a great option for me. In fact, I ran into quite enigmatic bank authorisation hickups once again just yesterday. I have to point out however that the Spitfire support helped me out proactively, swiftly and effectively, and made it possible for me to purchase, pay and download the library nonetheless. Thumbs up.


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## DocMidi657 (May 26, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> Because these dealers can reach customers who have never heard of you, nor you of them. Many companies like JRR send mailshots out to their client base which has been built up over very many years. If you are new to the market, or you don't have a high profile presence in the market it can be very difficult, particularly in the early years.


That's a really good point and well stated and for alot of products makes total sense however if I was a dealer after I did all the legwork of cultivating customers and sending out the screenshots on behalf of the sound developer now all my customers know about the company who can and will sell to you directly and instantly. Seems like not a good deal for the dealer unless he can sell it for less money over the internet then the developer does (which opens another can of worms . If it's a large market for a harware product that millions of people want to buy that business model works well but for an extremely tiny niche market one who is selling "violin samples" into I wonder if that can be in any way lucrative for a dealer's efforts in the long run.


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## NoamL (May 26, 2017)

I've never had problems buying direct from SpitfireAudio.com (well, I did get a fraud alert from my bank once, but that's because I had recently moved and didn't change my cellphone # yet; my fault not theirs).

SFA produce top shelf libraries at fair prices with frequent sales, they support session musicians, and they communicate their releases/sales effectively to anyone who even occasionally browses VIC. I'm not sure why any VICer would want to purchase their libraries through a reseller who does nothing but take a slice? Support the devs.

The only time I've ever bought libraries through a reseller was via VSTBuzz and that's because they offer ridiculous sales on overlooked libraries. SFA is hardly in that position, if anything like someone else said they're in danger of becoming the next EastWest.


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## Whatisvalis (May 26, 2017)

You should always support/buy direct from the producer, if the option exists.


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## Musicam (May 26, 2017)

For me no problem. Always I bought Spitfire.


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## Wes Antczak (May 26, 2017)

Sounds like it's a choice between Spitfire having to deal with hassles vs. the purchaser having to deal with hassles on their end.

Really, I think that no one is to blame. The banks are trying to protect their customers and Paypal is perhaps acting too hastily when people complain, but I think as end users we also need to be more "grown-up" about things. Complaining to Paypal about an issue should always be a last resort, imo. It something goes wrong with your purchase, contact Spitfire support and try to resolve it that way first.

The times that I have needed their help they have always been very helpful and very quick. Especially on this forum, for example, I think it's safe to say that we all love Spitfire and love the libraries that they produce, let's not forget that and give them the benefit of the doubt when things go wrong, as things sometimes do. Let's also not forget the time differences between some of us.


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## mgpqa1 (May 26, 2017)

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hi Folks! I'm just popping in to this thread to say that we ARE bringing back PayPal SOON. There's a few bits and pieces to resolve before we do, but you won't have long to wait.
> 
> Ben


I hope PayPal Credit is included/enabled. Great news!


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## markleake (May 26, 2017)

Spitfire libraries are by far the most used set of my libraries. I love everything I have purchased from them; I've never been disappointed. Their libraries do have occasional annoyances, sure, but still I would say they offer great prices for fantastic quality stuff.

As much as I want to support Spitfire to make new libraries, I find the issue of multiple currency conversions that are forced on non-US customers quite annoying. Sometimes I purchase direct from Spitfire, sometimes not, depending on what I am buying, given I want to avoid Spitfire's currency conversion mechanics that can add to the purchase cost.

So to the people here who are asking why anyone would want to purchase through other sources, those of us who live outside the US and Europe (yes Spitfire, we do exist and have our own currencies!), that is one significant reason.

I'm guessing this is one of the reasons they want to remove purchases through non-Spitfire avenues. It gives them a lot more control on purchase price, as they would no longer be allowing competing re-sellers to offer the product in their own base currency, and hence they can control/stabilise currency fluctuations for their own purposes. That allows them to have stable prices on their web-site.


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## Lode_Runner (May 26, 2017)

markleake said:


> Spitfire libraries are by far the most used set of my libraries. I love everything I have purchased from them; I've never been disappointed. Their libraries do have occasional annoyances, sure, but still I would say they offer great prices for fantastic quality stuff.
> 
> As much as I want to support Spitfire to make new libraries, I find the issue of multiple currency conversions that are forced on non-US customers quite annoying. Sometimes I purchase direct from Spitfire, sometimes not, depending on what I am buying, given I want to avoid Spitfire's currency conversion mechanics that can add to the purchase cost.
> 
> ...



+1

It's disappointing news for me. I used to purchase directly from Spitfire when the only option was to pay in British Pounds, but then they went 'international' and started taking payments from Britain in Pounds, from mainland Europe in Euros, from the US in US Dollars, and from Australia, New Zealand and Canada in... US Dollars (Sorry I'm not deliberately ignoring the rest of the world - I just don't know what currency other countries are being charged in).

This annoyed a lot of US Americans as in the months after Brexit they were enjoying a better exchange rate than previously, meaning they could suddenly get Spitfire products at cheaper prices (while incidentally Spitfire was no worse off as they were still able to get the same amount of Pounds per sale as always). Spitfire's decision meant US customers were suddenly denied the benefits of the better exchange rates, which instead went to Spitfire.

For us in Australia though it made even less sense - why arbitrarily lock us to a currency that has nothing to do with us, that our currency is heavily down against, and that is a foreign currency to both Spitfire and Australian customer? The prices went up for us significantly overnight. At that point I started buying from Time and Space whenever possible as I still had the option to buy in British Pounds there. Just to give everyone an idea of the difference this makes:

Spitfire Chamber Strings at Time and Space
GB£499.17 (excl VAT) = AU$858.41 (at today's exchange rates)
US$689.00 = AU$925.23 (at today's exchange rates)
Amount saved by buying in Pounds $66.82

Basically with Spitfire both charging us in US Dollars and letting go of third party resellers, I'm going to choose to hold off on buying anything I can't live without from them until a) the US prices are favourable against the UK prices b) the Australian dollar is favourable against both the US Dollar and the British Pound.


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## markleake (May 26, 2017)

Lode_Runner said:


> +1
> 
> It's disappointing news for me. I used to purchase directly from Spitfire when the only option was to pay in British Pounds, but then they went 'international' and started taking payments from Britain in Pounds, from mainland Europe in Euros, from the US in US Dollars, and from Australia, New Zealand and Canada in... US Dollars (Sorry I'm not deliberately ignoring the rest of the world - I just don't know what currency other countries are being charged in).
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm in Oz also. You may be waiting a while for the AU Dollar to be favourable against those currencies! 

For me I see it the same way as you do. This issue makes me question whether I will purchase much else from them going forward (beyond the current 10 anniversary wish-list offer) because I feel like I am penalised into paying more for being Australian. I'm just one man, so maybe not much impact on Spitfire. But it's a shame for me, because I did have my eye on other libraries still.


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## Tatu (May 27, 2017)

Sometimes change - albeit seemingly negative one for some - may end up to benefit all. Who knows where this leads in terms of payment options and.. over all pricing, when there are no "middle men"? Sure, they'll have to invest a bit more in advertising, but as a whole "Orchestral Sample Library" is already a bit of a niche market, where SF seems to have a strong foundation in terms of who's who in the business.


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## Vastman (May 27, 2017)

I use to buy from Spitfire direct but their currency crap changes really pissed me off... and now they're cutting off means to get around their USA 8 percent penalty system. I just bought my last Spitfire product for awhile (TrailerGiand RedCola & BT) Decided against SO... bought the Trailer Brass/Strings bundle and a few other things elsewhere instead...

This post from my Cakewalk forum sums up my feeling perfectly... "_*While I don't have a problem with companies only selling direct, Spitfire have committed the cardinal sin of EDM retail. They have separate prices for multiple currencies/countries. So US purchasers get Albion One for $449 USD. But the price in GBP without VAT is 332.50GBP. An extra 5.4% at current exchange rates. And there is no way that $449 was arrived at except by "what do we think this is worth in USD". Just like their GBP with VAT price is exactly 399GBP. Then they worked backwards to get the non-VAT price.

In addition since they only take credit cards (they are adding Paypal I understand, but they don't right now) even though they will charge my card in USD, Citibank and Wells Fargo both add a 3% foreign transaction fee because they are based/banked in Britain. Only a small number of credit cards/banks don't have this fee. It is in addition to currency conversion fees, if any. So the total transaction tax ends up being about 8.5%. And I still owe state sales tax too.

If Spitfire wants me to buy their products they need to price them in one currency without any taxes and let the banks/credit card companies compute the fees on that. Their regional pricing plan is very anti-consumer. The odd thing is they had to go out of their way to make it this way. By default most smaller companies do only have one price/one currency for their offerings.*_

I have lots of wonderful Spitfire products, MOST ironically bought when the pound was HIGH and I was paying a HUGE penalty... Now, just when it gets good for me, SPITFIRE inserts their own penalty, skimming off the top, and cutting off the only other avenue to get a fair/comparable deal.

Don't care about the "blah blah blah" rational. There are others out there and after mucking with Music Sampling's bundle... I'm glad I stopped my wish list purchases, despite sitting on a really nice wad at the moment...after selling my farm


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## Quasar (May 27, 2017)

Vastman said:


> I use to buy from Spitfire direct but their currency crap changes really pissed me off... and now they're cutting off means to get around their USA 8 percent penalty system. I just bought my last Spitfire product for awhile (TrailerGiand RedCola & BT) Decided against SO... bought the Trailer Brass/Strings bundle and a few other things elsewhere instead...
> 
> This post from my Cakewalk forum sums up my feeling perfectly... "_*While I don't have a problem with companies only selling direct, Spitfire have committed the cardinal sin of EDM retail. They have separate prices for multiple currencies/countries. So US purchasers get Albion One for $449 USD. But the price in GBP without VAT is 332.50GBP. An extra 5.4% at current exchange rates. And there is no way that $449 was arrived at except by "what do we think this is worth in USD". Just like their GBP with VAT price is exactly 399GBP. Then they worked backwards to get the non-VAT price.
> 
> ...



I hear what you're saying, and had a similar reaction to their earlier currency games. Spitfire makes fantastic libraries and has acceptable CP, so I have no regrets buying what I have from them, and will buy more if and when I can afford to.

But, unlike developers such as Impact Soundworks, Soundiron, Orange Tree Samples, Indiginus and Embertone (off the top of my head, there are others), who seem to authentically like to spread the joy in ways that are not _purely _profit driven, SA comes across, to me at least, as a quintessentially hardball bottom-line capitalist outfit. Their sales are clearly calculated to expand their customer base and create more revenue, and not about anything else. They are certainly honest & "fair" in terms of being legal and above board. The price is the price, and the terms are the terms. Simple like that. You can trust them to competently deliver exactly what you pay for.

At the end of the day SA's thing is about making money, and their pricing and policies consistently reflect that. They've almost certainly already calculated that they will lose x number of sales because x number of people will see their pricing and distribution policies as "anti-consumer" (I agree with you about that) or whatever. But if the cumulative net impact works to their monetary benefit, they don't have to care, and they apparently don't. Just how it is.

I got UIST today with the wish list deal and it's mind-blowingly cool...


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## Vastman (May 27, 2017)

good insights, Tug...Fortunately I have much of what I need from the profit mongers and there is soooo much amazing work being done these days by others I respect, it's easy to focus on other amazing opportunities. Can't acquire/use but a portion of what is unfolding anyway and other recent libraries have blown me away... May sound quaint but supporting more "cooperative" business models which operate beyond greed is important to me. It's why my next car will be electric, not one of those hot little fossil planet killers...

Fortunately amazing alternatives exist. And Karma has ruined many "calculations"


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## Mornats (May 28, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Just like their GBP with VAT price is exactly 399GBP. Then they worked backwards to get the non-VAT price.



That's what everyone does over here in the UK, it's very standard.


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## Parsifal666 (May 28, 2017)

I guess the price of the best SF libraries stopped bothering me when I stopped to imagine exactly what went into making all the recordings (there's at least one video that helped me understand).

But I certainly sympathize with others' opinions on this subject.


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## PeterJCroissant (May 28, 2017)

PayPal Credit!! Oh crumbs that's going to be dangerous!


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## Quasar (May 28, 2017)

thereus said:


> *Seems a bit unfair...*
> 
> Total raised to date by their "labs" products - free in exchange for a donation to UNICEF £171,559.10. Plenty of developers would be making profit from instruments like those in the labs if they had them to sell.
> 
> ...



And maybe it is unfair. All I offered was a _perception_ of their marketing and PR practices from the perspective of a relatively low-end Joe Average end user. That's all marketing styles and campaigns are anyway, outreach to the public for the purpose of creating perceptions... And conversely, a developer who come across as "cool" by being spontaneously and unexpectedly generous may be playing a calculating & cynical long game... I'm not pretending to pronounce judgment on anyone's souls, but merely sharing what SA's pricing, policies & marketing tactics evoke in me.

And I certainly didn't say that they're "mean", and have no reason to suppose they are. Based on the video walkthoughs I imagine them to be quite pleasant.

Re Spitfire Labs, I have a few of them, and to the extent that the program provides resources to people in need, that's great. But it's of course also well-known that the creation of compartmentalized charitable entities are a standard business practice for institutions who wish to paint themselves as altruistic for public consumption. Even the oil, pharmaceutical and insurance industries do that. Also, since SA Labs is software (which has no intrinsic per-unit value), and leftover table scraps at that, it's not difficult to imagine that the charity serves as both a cost-efficient way to generate favorable social standing, as well as a hook to get consumers interested in the more expensive variants of those products. I'm not suggesting that any of this is bad, and I don't believe that it is. Just saying that, in general, the existence of a charitable enterprise within any business says little to nothing about what that business is actually about.

But again, I need both hands to count the number of prominent developers who I boycott (for a variety of socioeconomic reasons, OT here), and Spitfire Audio is not on that list. Despite some quibbles over their pricing and terms, these fall into the "this is irksome" category, not at all into the "this is outrageously wrong" category.


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## mouse (May 28, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> Re Spitfire Labs, I have a few of them, and to the extent that the program provides resources to people in need, that's great. But it's of course also well-known that the creation of compartmentalized charitable entities are a standard business practice for institutions who wish to paint themselves as altruistic for public consumption. Even the oil, pharmaceutical and insurance industries do that. Also, since SA Labs is software (which has no intrinsic per-unit value), and leftover table scraps at that, it's not difficult to imagine that the charity serves as both a cost-efficient way to generate favorable social standing, as well as a hook to get consumers interested in the more expensive variants of those products.



Yea you're right. Fuck them for finding a way to raise 171k for charity and get some favourable social standing in return . 

They could have just offered them as freebies (which would most likely get them even more interested consumers) but instead they decided to do something far better that yes, benefits them, but also greatly benefits the charities they work with. In my books, that says a lot about what kind of people they are. 

It seems like whatever they do, someone will be unhappy with it.


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## Parsifal666 (May 28, 2017)

mouse said:


> Yea you're right. Fuck them for finding a way to raise 171k for charity and get some favourable social standing in return .



That's fantastic. Awesome. Makes me admire them on a deeper level.


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## Quasar (May 28, 2017)

mouse said:


> Yea you're right. Fuck them for finding a way to raise 171k for charity and get some favourable social standing in return .
> 
> They could have just offered them as freebies (which would most likely get them even more interested consumers) but instead they decided to do something far better that yes, benefits them, but also greatly benefits the charities they work with. In my books, that says a lot about what kind of people they are.
> 
> It seems like whatever they do, someone will be unhappy with it.



There's no good reason to put words into my mouth that I did not say so that you can counter arguments I have not made.

I did not castigate SA for having a charitable program (I think it's a fine thing), nor am I unhappy about it, but merely made the general assertion that such programs don't really tell us anything about the business concerns that sponsor them, and I stand by that assertion.


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## Tatu (May 28, 2017)

mouse said:


> It seems like whatever they do, someone will be unhappy with it.


If I remember correctly, someone here bitched about conversion rates even regarding LABS stuff, so don't be surprised


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## Phillip (May 28, 2017)

Charity is done by choice. We are talking about penalty here.


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## Vastman (May 28, 2017)

Coal, oil, and other planet killers routinely employ tax write off charities which illustrates how ABSURD your argument is, Mouse. Furthermore, it has NOTHING to do with the issues being discussed... And fanboy bullcrap aside, I love my spitfire libraries, having been OFTEN characterized as a Spitfire fanboy on other forums. Indeed, I pimped many a Spitfire releases in the past which I'll no longer spend the time doing. The fact that I'm rethinking my relationship will make some very happy!

Your inability to recognize that their currency practices screw some of us and appear designed to maximize profit... and why some of us are rethinking our loyalty... is sad. No one said you have to agree, although acknowledge the unfairness would seem to make sense if you have anything beyond a Neanderthal brain.

Fortunately this amazing area of musical tools is exploding and I am impressed by the new stuff being put out by others. I willingly spent gobs on Spitfire's basic tools already and will continue using them with pleasure, including the recent BT thingy once SA fixes the GUI. However, these recent moves by the company are exactly the moves that I dislike and as a poorer segment of the songwriting/composing community, I'll spend my duckets elsewhere. Doubt this matters to SA at all but I've never been one to sit idly by and continue supporting companies engaging in what I consider unfair practices.


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## PeterJCroissant (May 28, 2017)

thereus said:


> Tough crowd in tonight.


Ha ha indeed:..Are we done? Let's make music... not enemy's... gees the world is desperate enough already...


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## mouse (May 28, 2017)

Vastman said:


> Coal, oil, and other planet killers routinely employ tax write off charities which illustrates how ABSURD your argument is, Mouse. Furthermore, it has NOTHING to do with the issues being discussed... And fanboy bullcrap aside, I love my spitfire libraries, having been OFTEN been characterized as a Spitfire fanboy on other forums. Indeed, I pimped many a Spitfire releases in the past which I'll no longer spend the time doing. The fact that I'm rethinking my relationship will make some very happy!
> 
> Your inability to recognize that their currency practices screw some of us and appear designed to maximize profit... and why some of us are rethinking our loyalty... is sad. No one said you have to agree, although acknowledge the unfairness would seem to make sense if you have anything beyond a Neanderthal brain.
> 
> Fortunately this amazing area of musical tools is exploding and I am impressed by the new stuff being put out by others. I willingly spent gobs on Spitfire's basic tools already and will continue using them with pleasure, including the recent BT thingy once SA fixes the GUI. However, these recent moves by the company are exactly the moves that I dislike and as a poorer segment of the songwriting/composing community, I'll spend my duckets elsewhere. Doubt this matters to SA at all but I've never been one to sit idly by and continue supporting companies engaging in what I consider unfair practices.



I'm terribly sorry that my poor "Neanderthal brain" just can't comprehend the reasoning behind some of the points being made here. Your intellect clearly far surpasses my own, so I bow before you oh great Vastman.


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## Parsifal666 (May 28, 2017)

mouse said:


> I'm terribly sorry that my poor "Neanderthal brain" just can't comprehend the reasoning behind some of the points being made here. Your intellect clearly far surpasses my own, so I bow before you oh great Vastman.



I think @Vastman has a valid point about charity, in the sense that many companies that would seem vile (obviously not SF) give to charity both for PR and tax reasons (I could be wrong). To be a competitive company and not be philanthropic at all, even on the surface, seems like a very bad idea, as well as grounds for a necessarily short lived entity.

However, I am impressed by what Spitfire has done for charity...I was already in love with the libraries


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## Michael Antrum (May 28, 2017)




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## mc_deli (May 28, 2017)

CH hints at some SA office being set up in the US in his willie-waving-wideo-wlog-waffle. Maybe there will be a SA US shop for you... Or maybe not.


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## Parsifal666 (May 29, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> CH hints at some SA office being set up in the US in his willie-waving-wideo-wlog-waffle. Maybe there will be a SA US shop for you... Or maybe not.



Hi @mc_deli do you mean Chris Hein? And could you please give me a link to the article? I'd be grateful.


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## AllanH (May 29, 2017)

I realize it's not directed at me, but I believe Christian Henson mentioned it in one of his YouTube videos. Probably the one about the pop-up event in LA.


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## Parsifal666 (May 29, 2017)

AllanH said:


> I realize it's not directed at me, but I believe Christian Henson mentioned it in one of his YouTube videos. Probably the one about the pop-up event in LA.



Ewwps who knows where I got Chris from in a topic regarding Spitfire, thanks *Allan* and sorry for misreading, *mc_deli*.


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## SterlingArcher (May 29, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


>



Alfred Pennyworth: Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.


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## Michael Antrum (May 29, 2017)

SterlingArcher said:


> Alfred Pennyworth: Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.



There's a film in there somewhere.....


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## Vastman (May 29, 2017)

mouse said:


> I'm terribly sorry that my poor "Neanderthal brain" just can't comprehend the reasoning behind some of the points being made here. Your intellect clearly far surpasses my own, so I bow before you oh great Vastman.


Thank you... I accept your deference! 

Now I'll go back to downloading and hopefully enjoying my two recent Spitfire wish list purchases and the libraries I acquired from other companies once i decided to forgo spitfire's full orchestra package after reflecting on this issue.

Different strokes for different folks.


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## SpitfireSupport (Jun 1, 2017)

Hi everyone. PayPal is now live on spitfireaudio.com.


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## Parsifal666 (Jun 1, 2017)

Evo Grid 3...I'd fooled around with it on my friend's computer, but this is way beyond what I anticipated, even after watching the walkthroughs about a zillion times. One of the best parts about it is its generally more soft, lush sound. Not for the Ark 1-sound worshipping folks necessarily (though there are some very weighty things you could do with this library, even forgetting the sound design possibilities).

However, I'm not sure I'm happier about the amazing instrument or the fact that my American debit card went through NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER, YAY!


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## windyweekend (Jun 2, 2017)

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hi everyone. PayPal is now live on spitfireaudio.com.


...but still no payment via US gift cards, which resellers accepted.


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## synthpunk (Jun 2, 2017)

Didn't I see that paypal takes gift cards now for some payment transactions ?



windyweekend said:


> ...but still no payment via US gift cards, which resellers accepted.


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## mcalis (Jun 2, 2017)

SpitfireSupport said:


> Hi everyone. PayPal is now live on spitfireaudio.com.


That's great!


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## windyweekend (Jun 2, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Didn't I see that paypal takes gift cards now for some payment transactions ?


would be nice. I'll look into it!


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