# MBP M1Pro 16GB RAM, enough RAM to load BBC Core, Vienna SE1+ and BBOs??



## HenryBerg (May 4, 2022)

I know the answer is to get the MBP Max 32GB RAM, but besides costing €3,900, rather than €2,670 for the MBP M1Pro (16GB 1TB), I'd have to wait 3 months as the MBP Max is heavily back ordered.

Looong time pop/rock composing PT and Logic, I'm starting out with Orchestral composing -no "EPiC soundtrack", just classical pieces. I bought Vienna SE 1, 1+, eight BBOs and BBC Core, yet to be installed (my 2015 MPB is falling apart). I use Logic with UAD x8p, etc

How realistic is it to be able to load an orchestral session with "just" 16GB RAM, does the M1 4GB/s SSD help for playback? I guess it's ok for chamber music, but what if I want to write in the Beethoven/StarWars category (full orchestra), could I load say 32 orchestral instruments? (sections with some soloist)

Thx in advance


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## Marcus Millfield (May 4, 2022)

You'd probably need to bounce some tracks to audio, but otherwise you'll be fine.

I have a 2017 Windows notebook with i7 CPU and 16 Gb RAM with a 100+ track VSL template and this strategy works for me on that machine. I do own BBCSO Pro and that also worked following that strategy.


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## holywilly (May 4, 2022)

You may wanna lower the preload size inside the Synchron Player if you are streaming via fast SSD, that saves lots of ram. Same thing goes to Spitfire Player samples.


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## rnb_2 (May 4, 2022)

You will likely be fine, but for future-proofing, you could also try to track down an M1 Pro 32GB instead of the Max. For music, you don't need the extra GPU cores of the Max - you can also save a bit by going with the 14-core GPU instead of the 16-core, but stick with the 10-core CPU. The trick, of course, is finding something in stock. Retailers are getting a slow trickle of various configurations, but they go back out of stock very quickly.

If it's more important to get something now than to get exactly the right config, though, go with what you can get. It's a great computer, regardless.


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## benwiggy (May 5, 2022)

I agree with above: you can get the Pro with 32Gb; you don't need the Max.

I tested running samples with 16Gb -- it coped perfectly well, but there was a lot of memory compression and swap. If you look on YouTube, there are insane comparisons of 16Gb versus 32Gb M1s, with surprisingly little difference in performance.

In fairness, I did return the 16Gb model and order 32Gb...! Just to avoid any buyers' remorse in the future. But I certainly don't think you need 64Gb, even if you did on Intel.


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## Cdnalsi (May 5, 2022)

HenryBerg said:


> I know the answer is to get the MBP Max 32GB RAM, but besides costing €3,900, rather than €2,670 for the MBP M1Pro (16GB 1TB), I'd have to wait 3 months as the MBP Max is heavily back ordered.
> 
> Looong time pop/rock composing PT and Logic, I'm starting out with Orchestral composing -no "EPiC soundtrack", just classical pieces. I bought Vienna SE 1, 1+, eight BBOs and BBC Core, yet to be installed (my 2015 MPB is falling apart). I use Logic with UAD x8p, etc
> 
> ...


I'm running all of BBCSO Core's and AR2's instruments on separate tracks by articulation, a bunch of Spitfire Originals, sforzando, Logic Sampler, and Kontakt instances (mostly rhythm section instruments); as well as loads of u-He synths flawlessly on my 16GB of RAM M1 Pro 16" (couldn't afford the 32GB version). So about 400 tracks overall, all of them going through at least two Space Designer busses, and loads of Panagement, EQs, compressors, and everything else on.

I am indeed maxing out my RAM with my template (sometimes with 3 to 5GB of swap), and Spitfire's Player and Kontakt's caching and pre-loading settings are halved, the SSD does help immensely (I guess I can push it a little harder even). I get no clicks, no pops, no slow-downs, nothing.

The only thing I'm not 100% about is whether your Vienna instruments can run natively in Logic. I found running everything native gives me unreal performance, while still having instruments on Rosetta yields a lot of headache. That's why I pretty much cleansed my template of anything that's not Apple Silicon native.

It's a great machine, and upgrading from my 2018 MBP felt like going 15 years into the future.

edit: and CPU temperature while running all of this is around 50 degrees celsius (!!!), the fans don't even spin up. The M1 Pro is quite the beast, and the Max only adds extra GPU cores.


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## wayne_rowley (May 5, 2022)

My BBC Core template takes about 17GB of RAM. 16GB sounds tight for what you are trying to do. 

Could you make music with various workflow compromises - yes of course.

Could you prematurely kill your SSD with heavy swap file usage...


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## benwiggy (May 5, 2022)

The premise of early death of SSDs by using them are massively exaggerated. The TBWs on these things will more than cope with the lifetime of the Mac.


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## HenryBerg (May 5, 2022)

THX VERY MUCH to everyone for your helpful responses!

I really don't know what to do. I bought my 15" 2015 MBP with 16GB, which should steer me to buy the new one with x2 everything, if I want it to last me several years.

I already spent €1,400 on libraries so it would be silly to skimp on the new MBP RAM if I can't load them. I'd probably would get by with 16GB as you say, loading EITHER BBC Core or VSLs, but I guess I couldn't load BOTH, which is why I bought them to complement each other.

The 16" Pro 16/1TB is available now on offer at €2,670, whereas the Max 32/1TB is not only almost €4k (never spent that much on a mac in 20 years) but it's out of stock for 3 months. A custom Pro 32/1TB would be €3,440 but ALSO on a 3 months wait list . Getting a MBP NOW is very very tempting, (it's €300 discounted), but I might regret not having 32GB in the future?? Probably.

Also don't know if I'd order the Pro with 32/ 2TB rather than 1TB, to store the samples there (roughly 240GB so far), as the internal SSDs are now soo fast. I bought the Sandisk Extreme 1TB for that, but apparently tests show it runs quite slower due to being USB-C rather than ThB3 on the new M1s, let alone not reach the 4-5GB/s of the M1 internal drives.

My 2015 MBP has the "dead Keyboard issue", out of warranty (€700 repair !!!!!  ) and it's getting on my Nerves!!!!!, a PAIN to type this reply! CAN'T WAIT TO GET A PROPER WORKING MBP.



-What If I install ALL the VSL and BBC on the Sandisk 1TB NOW, to learn them on my current 2015 MBP, as I wait 3 months for the new MBP. Should I desinstall ALL later and put the libraries on the internal drive of the new, or just plug in the (slow) Sandisk? Is it too painful to move samples from a drive/computer to the other?

-What if I buy now the Pro 16/1TB (which is discounted) to sell it in by Xmas to get a 32/2TB? I really can't stand my fawlty KB. I'd lose several hundred € eventually i guess, Dont know what to do.

thx again


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## rnb_2 (May 5, 2022)

HenryBerg said:


> THX VERY MUCH to everyone for your helpful responses!
> 
> I really don't know what to do. I bought my 15" 2015 MBP with 16GB, which should steer me to buy the new one with x2 everything, if I want it to last me several years.
> 
> ...


In your position, given the length of the delays involved, I’d probably grab that base 16” (I didn’t realize you were looking at the 16” because of the differences in pricing between dollars and euros - the lower-cost M1 Pro options aren’t relevant on the 16”). Use it for a few months, and if you find that you need more RAM or storage, I’m sure you’ll be able to find a buyer and not lose too much.


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## HenryBerg (May 5, 2022)

Just came back from THE local Apple Retailer (I live on an EU island), and they told me they are now delivering macs ordered in JANUARY! Wait times for new orders are expected around 3-4 months (!) as we speak.
I realize I should get a 32GB RAM 16" otherwise i'll regret it. But the idea of a stop gap, buying a 16"Pro 16GB/1TB for now, to later sell it and buy a bespoke 16" around Xmas is growing on me. If only (hardly) used macs were so easy to sell here as it's in the USA.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (May 6, 2022)

HenryBerg said:


> Just came back from THE local Apple Retailer (I live on an EU island), and they told me they are now delivering macs ordered in JANUARY! Wait times for new orders are expected around 3-4 months (!) as we speak.
> I realize I should get a 32GB RAM 16" otherwise i'll regret it. But the idea of a stop gap, buying a 16"Pro 16GB/1TB for now, to later sell it and buy a bespoke 16" around Xmas is growing on me. If only (hardly) used macs were so easy to sell here as it's in the USA.


I would preorder, wait and try to abuse your current machine to the max. I have to wait 6-10 weeks atm for my order now and its a nice time to just squeeze my current mac without bothering about crashes / shortages. I somehow learned to
wait and still have fun with what’s already there and treating it not like glass anymore. Gives me peace somehow.


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## Alex Fraser (May 7, 2022)

Interesting discussion.
I'm looking at June for any sign of an M2 mini. The Mac Studios look lovely, but I venture into the world of big orchestras infrequently.


Cdnalsi said:


> I am indeed maxing out my RAM with my template (sometimes with 3 to 5GB of swap), and Spitfire's Player and Kontakt's caching and pre-loading settings are halved, the SSD does help immensely (I guess I can push it a little harder even). I get no clicks, no pops, no slow-downs, nothing.


I sometimes feel this feature has been downplayed on the forum as it doesn't confirm to "prior accepted wisdom" Obs, the more ram the better. But for the occasional foray into big orchestras...I could find this perfectly acceptable.


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## benwiggy (May 7, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm looking at June for any sign of an M2 mini. The Mac Studios look lovely, but I venture into the world of big orchestras infrequently.


I wouldn't bank on it. I've spent a considerable part of my life waiting for Apple to update things. The M1 Pro/Max MBPs were first rumoured to arrive in May last year, and at various points until they actually showed up in September. (Plus the order fulfilment time.) 
I waited while the Mac Mini went 4 years without an update until Oct 2018.

I agree that a 'base' M2, with hopefully increased RAM up to 32Gb and support for more displays would be entirely satisfactory for many people.


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## Alex Fraser (May 7, 2022)

benwiggy said:


> I wouldn't bank on it. I've spent a considerable part of my life waiting for Apple to update things. The M1 Pro/Max MBPs were first rumoured to arrive in May last year, and at various points until they actually showed up in September. (Plus the order fulfilment time.)
> I waited while the Mac Mini went 4 years without an update until Oct 2018.
> 
> I agree that a 'base' M2, with hopefully increased RAM up to 32Gb and support for more displays would be entirely satisfactory for many people.


Good point. 
See what happens at WWDC, but happy to go M1 if need be.


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## rnb_2 (May 7, 2022)

benwiggy said:


> I wouldn't bank on it. I've spent a considerable part of my life waiting for Apple to update things. The M1 Pro/Max MBPs were first rumoured to arrive in May last year, and at various points until they actually showed up in September. (Plus the order fulfilment time.)
> I waited while the Mac Mini went 4 years without an update until Oct 2018.
> 
> I agree that a 'base' M2, with hopefully increased RAM up to 32Gb and support for more displays would be entirely satisfactory for many people.


There was certainly a time during the 2010s when it felt very much like Apple lost interest in the Mac, particularly certain models (like the mini). Some of it was on Intel continually failing to successfully shrink their process and reduce power draw and (especially) heat, year after year, but some of it was seemingly on Apple only having so much bandwidth and concentrating on the iPhone and iPad. While that didn't hurt their financial performance, it didn't inspire confidence in Mac users.

However, I don't think we can really apply Apple's behavior over that period of time to the current situation. Yes, the MacBook Pros were rumored to release at WWDC last June and didn't actually appear until October, but this was down to Covid-related component shortages and production delays, not a lack of interest in releasing the product. The current shipping delays are also entirely down to production stoppages due to Chinese Covid policy (there was even a near-riot at the Quanta factory that produces the MacBook Pros in the last couple days) and continuing component shortages.

I suspect that, *if* Covid's effects recede a bit and production can get back to more predictable levels, Apple will put the Mac on a fairly regular update schedule, with the entire line likely turning over every 18-24 months. Getting to that point, however, will not happen quickly - there are many chokepoints in the supply chain that need to get ironed out - and until they do, there will be long delivery times and delayed product introductions. I suspect that we'll get the Mac Pro announcement at WWDC next month (shipping later in the year, though), and may have to wait until Sep/Oct for the first M2 Macs. Happy to be proven wrong, of course, but that's my best guess.

Apple is back to being enthusiastic about the Mac and recognizes that it's more important than just its contribution to the bottom line, so it's unfortunate that supply issues that they largely avoided in late 2020/early 2021 have hampered their ability to get new machines into customers' hands as quickly and reliably as they'd like in the past year. Unlike the previous decade, though, that's definitely not down to disinterest.


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