# Is there such a thing as a good MIDI guitar?



## BNRSound (Dec 9, 2015)

I know there are a few out there on the market and I've demo'd a couple at the local Guitar Center, but they just feel like I'm playing a slightly more sophisticated Guitar Hero controller. Will there ever be a good one that you can play like an honest to god guitar? Is there a big enough market for it even?

Interested to hear peoples experience/thoughts on this.


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## gyprock (Dec 9, 2015)

I've got a You Rock Guitar (YRG-1000 gen 2) with the radius neck. It has a good feel and tracks well for single line stuff. It is also one of the cheapest units around. I bought mine 2nd hand off ebay and paid around $100 for the guitar with the original neck and then I bought the radius neck new as an accessory.

A midi guitar can be a useful input device for capturing a nice improvised single line and to help you document the rhythms you are playing. It can also give you inspiration if your keyboard chops aren't that great. However...

The really big problem is polyphonic fingerpicking, particularly if you pull off a note into an open string (at least with a controller that relies on switches rather than analysing a real string). This just doesn't work. I tried to transcribe a bunch of fingerpicking compositions and the result was a total mess. After analyzing my playing I realized that much of the subtlety comes from leaving some notes sustaining while palming others. Lightly brushing against the strings with inner voice pull offs etc just get picked up as false notes. I ended up doing the transcriptions with the best tools on the planet - some manuscript paper, a pencil and an eraser. The end result was a clean readable score that captured all the nuances.

I'm a guitar player but still prefer piano keyboard entry when composing. With midi guitar you'll always get false triggers. If you play with no open strings, no articulations and single line soloing you can get quite good tracking. The problem is with hammer-ons, pull-offs, slides etc. Also composing on piano helps me avoid guitaristic phrases i.e. pentatonic lines etc.

In summary, it all depends on the technology behind the midi guitar. The YRG is not analysing the output of a vibrating string but rather it has switches at each fret location in combination with strings for the picking hand. It is very easy to play and does feel quite real after a few minutes playing with it. The tracking is also very good because there is no frequency to midi conversion.

If you want midi output from a guitar in a DAW environment maybe the better solution is to just record the guitar on an analogue track and use the frequency to midi tools built into most sequencers these days. Again, this would be ok for single line stuff but not fingerpicking or chords. I know one of the the Melodyne products can do polyphonic conversion of a pure instrument e.g. guitar only, but these tools are better for correcting a problem rather than getting midi output to drive a vst.

So if you want to compose for live players then it is easier to stick with a piano keyboard or pencil/paper. If you want to capture a single mono line to drive a vst then a midi guitar could work depending on the style of music. Remember that guitar players articulate differently to wind players so trying to emulate a saxophone through a midi guitar will still sound pretty bad even if the midi guitar has superb tracking technology. If you are using the midi guitar to emulate a similar stringed instrument that is percussive e.g. mandolin, banjo, bass etc then you can get a pretty good result.

Hope this helps.


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## Ollie (Dec 9, 2015)

I have tried the Roland GR55 as well as the Fishman tripleplay. Neither were really any good. Lot's of tracking issues.

There is a software alternative: http://jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar/ I found this to perform on par with the hardware equivalents. I haven't tried out version 2 yet. There's demo version so might be worth giving it a go.

Personally I would avoid it and stick to a midi keyboard. A lot less hassle and even if you're not a keyboard player and require lots of quantizing/editing of your parts it'll still likely be less work than fixing a midi guitar performance.


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## Russell Moran (Dec 10, 2015)

I use a VG-99 and the Jam Origin MIDI Guitar app for guitar MIDI, but I find the I/O buffer size above 32 samples too annoying to use, and at 32 samples I'm restricted in how I can use Logic. I usually end up clunking in MIDI parts on a keyboard, or writing in the Piano Roll editor. If I want to capture my feel (which is important for me as I've spent 50+ years developing it!) I'll record the guitar as Audio and convert that to MIDI via Flexitime.

So until computers (Macs?) get faster (buffer 8-16 samples + MIDI instruments) I really don't find MIDI guitar very useable for composing - great for playing live, though.

rz


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## mc_deli (Dec 10, 2015)

Saw Lou Reed playing midi guitar on the magic and loss tour. I swore then I will never touch a midi guitar. He actually offered refunds midway through the set.


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## Russell Moran (Dec 10, 2015)

'Though John McLaughlin, Pat Metheny, Alan Holdsworth and others are pretty handy with MIDI guitar live.

rz


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## gsilbers (Dec 10, 2015)

BNRSound said:


> I know there are a few out there on the market and I've demo'd a couple at the local Guitar Center, but they just feel like I'm playing a slightly more sophisticated Guitar Hero controller. Will there ever be a good one that you can play like an honest to god guitar? Is there a big enough market for it even?
> 
> Interested to hear peoples experience/thoughts on this.



the short answer is no.
I bought all of them. even the ztar.

on the hex pickup side the fishman tripleplay is ok. but its a hex pickup which translates to pretty much the same way if you added a hex pickup on a real piano. you can do some tracking but nothing like a real keyboard controller.

on the "botton" side there is the yourock guitar, ztar and fender mustang. I like the right hand tracking of the fender but same as the yourock guitar, its too much of a toy feeling. the ztar is fu kin expensive for what it does. which is pretty much the same as a yourock guitar plus some deep midi stuff you will never use.

I have high hopes for the lineage guitar. it will be the professional version of the yourock guitar. I like that similar to those other midi controllers with bottons, that you can hold for pads, and also play 9th and 7ths on the same string.

sadly all of these guitar controllers are geared towards 70s/metal type solo playing guitar on stage type dudes. not for sequencing other instruments on a daw/orchestral setup.
hopefully the lineage guitar will find a middle ground.

I also got the fcb1010 to control dynamics .


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## BNRSound (Dec 10, 2015)

> If I want to capture my feel (which is important for me as I've spent 50+ years developing it!) I'll record the guitar as Audio and convert that to MIDI via Flexitime.
> 
> So until computers (Macs?) get faster (buffer 8-16 samples + MIDI instruments) I really don't find MIDI guitar very useable for composing - great for playing live, though.
> 
> rz



I never considered audio to midi. Do those programs work pretty well? Could I extract midi data from the guitar track of say Dream Theater or something like?


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## Russell Moran (Dec 10, 2015)

No, you'd need to have the guitar on a separate audio track for that to work and you can't 'de-mix' commercial audio recordings. Alternatively you could generate a MIDI file from a sheet music transcription of John Petrucci's playing.

rz


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## Ollie (Dec 10, 2015)

If you want Dream Theater specifically you could look here: http://www.jammit.com/artist/dream-theater

or use the midi within guitar pro files for a transcription.

I believe they have also released the full stems for their black clouds and silver linings album.


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