# Recommendations for subtle clicks&cuts/glitch/granular plugins



## VVEremita (Apr 13, 2021)

Dear VI-Control community,

I am looking for a plugin that takes bits out of incoming audio or samples and rearranges them in a subtle way. A way which can be controlled and randomized if needed. Additonal Eurorack recommendations are welcome! 

I own the Output Portal Plugin and a Mutable Instruments Clouds in my Eurorack. Both are great for getting granular textures. But I am looking for something to leave the audio more recognizable. I can get the desired effect with those tools, but that's not their natural habitat. I attached a file with an effect that I achieved with Portal. It got me to where I want to be this particular time. I need more in that style 

Another example of what I am looking for is early Múm:
: 

I am considering Slate+Ashs Cycles. But again, what I want to achieve is not their usual demo content, so I wonder if I can (mis)use the granular mode of Cycles for my purposes and get some more "natural" sounds out of it.

Thanks a lot!


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## VVEremita (Apr 13, 2021)

I think I posted this in the wrong forum. It is more a of an sounddesign issue. Sorry about that.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

I like these ones:

-> Meldaproduction MGranularMB

(very comprehensive and tweakable, from subtle to more pronounced granulization - brilliant modulation options)

-> Audiority Spacegrain

(easily applied, more of a black box to me as far as parameters go, yet resulting in cool “reverb” like grains)

-> reverbs with pitch shifting and freeze options can be very helpful to “add” to the granulization if you use them in conjunction (Valhalla Shimmer, Audiority XenoVerb, Denise Audio PerfectPlateXL, Arturia REV Intensity)


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)




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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

Glitchy effects like Fennesz pioneered, can be hauntingly beautiful. I read somewhere Sylvian just recorded a mastered track on CD and played it back into his DAW while pushing ffwd / reverse buttons on his hardware CD player because it was beyond him how Fennesz achieved those glitches (and quite frankly, I’m at a loss too hehe)...

I think this was that track:


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## VVEremita (Apr 13, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> doctoremmet said:
> 
> 
> >




Thanks for the recommendation! Grainspace is different to what I am looking for, but it sounds really good. I'll keep an eye on that one, I'll find good use for it.

I am looking for something particular though. Larger bits and pieces cut out and sprinkled over the audio. Larger grain sizes, less textural and more "mosaic-like". Maybe I'll just have to cut up the audio myself  I am not going for for ethetial reverb-drenched soundscapes (this time


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

VVEremita said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! Grainspace is different to what I am looking for, but it sounds really good. I'll keep an eye on that one, I'll find good use for it.
> 
> I am looking for something particular though. Larger bits and pieces cut out and sprinkled over the audio. Larger grain sizes, less textural and more "mosaic-like". Maybe I'll just have to cut up the audio myself  I am not going for for ethetial reverb-drenched soundscapes (this time


Having listened more closely to your examples I totally agree with the above assessment. I think Output Portal should be able to pull it off though, those larger grains? I think MGranular can. Have you tried IRCAM TS? Whenever I see Ircam in a product name I’m guessing the product is really good, because the Ircam granular oscillator in Falcon2 is excellent. Some Equator2 patches I’ve played contain those larger grains too.


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## D Halgren (Apr 13, 2021)

VVEremita said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! Grainspace is different to what I am looking for, but it sounds really good. I'll keep an eye on that one, I'll find good use for it.
> 
> I am looking for something particular though. Larger bits and pieces cut out and sprinkled over the audio. Larger grain sizes, less textural and more "mosaic-like". Maybe I'll just have to cut up the audio myself  I am not going for for ethetial reverb-drenched soundscapes (this time


Maybe some of the PureMagnetik looper stuff?


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## ghobii (Apr 13, 2021)

I think Cycles could get you there. Shaperbox2 would also work well. The effect in your example is really more of a choopy tremolo effect. So Tantra is another candidate.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

ghobii said:


> I think Cycles could get you there. Shaperbox2 would also work well. The effect in your example is really more of a choopy tremolo effect. So Tantra is another candidate.


I heard @Empty Vessel say there’s a Tantra2 around the corner. Definitely going to check that one.


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## davidanthony (Apr 13, 2021)

I would load your desired audio into a granular sampler, e.g.


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## VVEremita (Apr 13, 2021)

D Halgren said:


> Maybe some of the PureMagnetik looper stuff?


Awesome recommendation! Thanks a lot!


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## Dirtgrain (Apr 13, 2021)

Some of the Glitchmachines devices/instruments use buffers to alter sections of sound (I have trouble remembering which ones). I don't know if you could get them to do what you want (without radical glitchiness).

I could see one using Iris 2 to maybe get such an effect.

If you use Ableton, there are some Max for Live devices that might fit your need: Iota, Emit, Factorsynth.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

D Halgren said:


> Maybe some of the PureMagnetik looper stuff?


Just got an email from PureMagnetik. Apparently they’re giving away a new looper type effect with their latest name-your-price BandCamp release. May be worth your while?









Fragment | Dual Fluctuation Looper


Fragment is a simple and fun double looping device designed to generate new, modulating fragments of your input audio. It is a quick way to sketch out some new ideas and help formulate unique sound phrases.




puremagnetik.com





Craig @CGR made me aware of their stuff recently and it is really decent (as is their UI artwork which is simply beautiful). I’ve had a lot of fun with their effects.


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## VVEremita (Apr 13, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Just got an email from PureMagnetik. Apparently they’re giving away a new looper type effect with their latest name-your-price BandCamp release. May be worth your while?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I immediately rushed to their site and treated myself with some looper fx, some bandcamp albums and ordered an actual MC by one of their artists as well. Seems to be an all around lovable platform. The FX look like one-trick-ponies, but there's a lot of them and they fill the imperfect, analogue gap that Portal with it's high-end engine left open for me.

So I am good for now. Cycles still interests me, but I think it's stengths lie in rhythmic stuff without the imperfect, random element I look for.

Thanks again to all the participants of this thread. I was breaking my head over this for days and here I got some really useful hints immediately.


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## VVEremita (Apr 13, 2021)

If I had one more wish: Should you guys know of any plugins with that tape-loop appeal, but capable of processing live audio: Please point me to it.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 13, 2021)

VVEremita said:


> If I had one more wish: Should you guys know of any plugins with that tape-loop appeal, but capable of processing live audio: Please point me to it.


-> Denise Audio Bad Tape 
-> BABY Audio SuperVHS

- especially the latter gets a lot of love around these parts (maybe look up a video Cameron aka Venus Theory did on it)

They don’t actually loop though, but I bet your DAW can do that

Also:

-> I am eyeing Togu Audio Line’s TAL Sampler (because my new goal in life is to own any and all synths @Empty Vessel is developing patches for) - which has that “broken tape” BoC esthetic

-> Unfiltered Audio Sandman Pro / Byome / Triad. Get it on the regular PA sales for a price in the $20-30 range. Excellent modulation options, and the delays sound really glitchy to me and distort in a really nice way


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## emptyvessel (Apr 13, 2021)

VVEremita said:


> If I had one more wish: Should you guys know of any plugins with that tape-loop appeal, but capable of processing live audio: Please point me to it.


you might find something in this vein from Giorgio Sancristoforo, in particular scroll down to "Fantastic Voyage" - not plugins but standalone, hope that's ok.





Gleetchlab Substantia Fantastic Voyage Berna3 Quadrivium Bentō


Softwares for experimental music Gleetchlab Substantia Fantastic Voyage Berna3 Bento Japanoise box Substantia, Points&Lines, Bentō




www.giorgiosancristoforo.net


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## emptyvessel (Apr 13, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> -> Denise Audio Bad Tape
> -> BABY Audio SuperVHS
> 
> - especially the latter gets a lot of love around these parts (maybe look up a video Cameron aka Venus Theory did on it)
> ...


Sandman Pro once you hit the Sleep button lets you do some very interesting things with the buffered loop of audio, obviously you can modulate the Sleep button for synced or random/unpredictable freezes then the start and end points of the loop are also modulatable. There's also a sample rate knob that sounds from subtle to very broken as you turn it down. My favourite Unfiltered plugin for sure.

I also use Valhalla Delay on one of the lower quality modes with 100% feedback for nice dusty lofi loops

James Peck's VHS (and also SKC) ensembles from the User Library are both great for that vibe if you have Reaktor


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## Dirtgrain (Apr 13, 2021)

Remnant is another glitch thing to consider:



> Remnant is a digital audio effect designed for experimenting with echos of sonic fragments through dense soundscapes and sharp glitches. Remnant fills an analogue tape-inspired delay line with its input signal while two independent grain engines, operating in parallel, draw fragments of sound from the delay line. The two engines feedback both into themselves and into each other, creating concentrated and constantly varying patterns in time and in space. Remnant also features a fully vector, resizable interface that pushes the boundaries of traditional audio plugin design.



I think it could lead one to some sounds/effects like in the song in the OP.


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## emptyvessel (Apr 13, 2021)

I didn't spot that you also wanted eurorack recommendations - a MakeNoise Morphagene sounds like it might hit the spot (and also your wallet!). It's very much more that tape splice area, larger parts of the audio (or small if you like) bent and re-arranged. I'm sure some of the Q-Bit modules would do what you're asking too.





Make Noise Co. | Morphagene


(email: [email protected] text: Contact Technical Support) (email: [email protected] text: Contact Sales/Dealer Inquiries) (email: [email protected] text: Contact Media / Marketing) (email: [email protected] text: Contact Jobs) (email: [email protected]



www.makenoisemusic.com


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## Dirtgrain (Apr 13, 2021)

I wonder what you could do with Molekular (don't have it) or Form (have not used it enough).


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## VVEremita (Apr 14, 2021)

Empty Vessel said:


> I didn't spot that you also wanted eurorack recommendations - a MakeNoise Morphagene sounds like it might hit the spot (and also your wallet!). It's very much more that tape splice area, larger parts of the audio (or small if you like) bent and re-arranged. I'm sure some of the Q-Bit modules would do what you're asking too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks! I had an eye on Qu-Bit Nebulae 2, their flagship granular module. I had forgotten about Morphagene, which seems to cater even more to an odd, unpolished and imperfectly abstract tape loop style. Both modules are expensive, but the Eurorack workflow on the other hand can be very rewarding. And you are right, the Morphagene is closest to what I am searching for!


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## emptyvessel (Apr 14, 2021)

VVEremita said:


> Thanks! I had an eye on Qu-Bit Nebulae 2, their flagship granular module. I had forgotten about Morphagene, which seems to cater even more to an odd, unpolished and imperfectly abstract tape loop style. Both modules are expensive, but the Eurorack workflow on the other hand can be very rewarding. And you are right, the Morphagene is closest to what I am searching for!


I had my eye on a used Phonogene actually, much less money and from what I read a much more lo-fi sound. I've yet to dip my toe anything other than fleetingly into Eurorack but there are a few modules from a few companies that are always scratching away at me temptingly.


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## VVEremita (Apr 15, 2021)

Empty Vessel said:


> I had my eye on a used Phonogene actually, much less money and from what I read a much more lo-fi sound. I've yet to dip my toe anything other than fleetingly into Eurorack but there are a few modules from a few companies that are always scratching away at me temptingly.


I have a small ambient/drone rack which I use in a hybrid approach together with my DAW. At first I wanted to build something 100% analog, but then mostly digital modules caught my attention, so for now I stick with "anything goes".

The hybrid approach is easier on the pocket. Using guitar pedals instead of Eurorack-format effects is helpful as well as long as you don't want to modulate their parameters. They are a little cheaper and save expensive rack space. 

For certain music I prefer the knobs to a screen for sure. But I still ask myself if I'd rather pay 600€ for a single module which does something digitally that I can recreate with a fraction of the budget inside my DAW...

But I just found another contender (and will check out Phonogene as well):


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## emptyvessel (Apr 15, 2021)

I wasn't blown away by the Arbhar demos at all, I probably missed the point but it didn't feel to me like it did much beyond capturing audio and letting you slow it down or reverse it.



> For certain music I prefer the knobs to a screen for sure. But I still ask myself if I'd rather pay 600€ for a single module which does something digitally that I can recreate with a fraction of the budget inside my DAW...


I totally get that, I have a Novation Summit here for a while and I'm using it a lot in part because it's just a damn nice experience physically interacting with an instrument. I'm in the same boat regarding finding digital modules more interesting and also go through the same mental argument when considering _any _hardware, especially eurorack, when I can achieve so very much within the computer. I tried the hybrid approach, Bitwig works very well for utility CV through the MOTU 828Mk2 I use but I find the feel of using the computer alot in that kind of setup leaves me feeling a bit like I just might as well use the computer and not spend the extra money on modules I could likely replicate the function of fairly easily in software. Just my own preference and feelings, I know plenty of people who are loving that way of working but it didn't gel for me.


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## VVEremita (Apr 17, 2021)

My hybrid approach is based on 1. (mostly) analog hardware sound sources and filters, 2. (mostly) digital CV modules and 3. FX guitar pedals or FX inside the DAW.

It is my firm belief that each instrument / piece of hardware will inspire in it's unique way, but this setup has turned out to be my best way of working for now. 

I didn't want to spend hundreds and hundreds before I could make any desirable sound. I already had things in mind that I wanted to do. So I started out with a Behringer Neutron, which is basically a small semi-modular system with nice patchbay, good analog sound and an unbelievable value for the price. It can even be integrated into a Eurorack system. It was a great starting point because it had all essential "modules" to start with. Than I got a small rack and slowly added to the Neutron.

I know a lot of people resent Behringer, but their synths and recording equipment have helped me to achieve things I couldn't afford otherwise. A lot of people would be embarrassed to get caught with a Behringer Eurorack modul  But their price is unbeatable. I don't think it will kill the market for the small but pricey companies. Eurorack is about creativity and the excentric small developers will have their place to coexist.


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## emptyvessel (Apr 17, 2021)

_"It is my firm belief that each instrument / piece of hardware will inspire in it's unique way" - _absolutely agree, it's absolutely the power and advantage of hardware. My old hardware samplers are probably not the fastest or most efficient of tools but I discover things with them that I don't with software equivalents, just because of the different workflow and possibilities.

Yeah Neutron is a great starting point and crazy value for money, I'd consider one myself. I agree, Behringer have made some questionable decisions but at some point you have to accept your own financial situation and if a company is making what you need for a price you can afford then I don't think it's something for an individual to feel bad or guilty about.
Seems like little modules like O&C and Disting pack alot into reasonably priced modules for covering a lot of bases for control and modulation. There are ways to build up a creatively stimulating setup without re-mortgaging the house for sure. FX in the computer is a great way to go, you still have the fun of generating and manipulating the audio with physical hardware, get the sound of the analogue gear and then the good value for money of digital fx in the box. I went through some planning on modular grid for an fx/audio mangler case (largely digital modules) in 100ish HP and just couldn't justify the cost as against doing the same thing with plugins.


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## antret (Apr 21, 2021)

I need to thank you all for this thread.  We just finished up our latest track (not posted yet) and I have the need to indulge in my love for sound/noise background washes.  

I have followed most of the links here (I was familiar with some, but not all) and like a few (most?) of us, I don't really have the money/time to fall into the hardware modular rabbit hole (I've got some Reason toys, the free Cherry Audio modular stuff and just discovered MuTools Mux the other day!) I've got my few choice pieces of hardware, but I'm mostly ITB.

I went to the Puremagnetik site and fell in love! I grabbed the freebies and got Strata to start with. I've already been chatting with Micah about some updates (mostly saving the 'tape loop' buffers to come back later and pick up where one left off) and he is very nice and responsive. Like it was mentioned earlier their model ('bundling' software with an artists album) is an easy model to support (and a clever idea to boot!). 

Just to mention one other clever bit of software I've been spending more time with is Wusik Station V9. The wave sequencing is quite cool for slow evolving pieces. It has a granular engine that I haven't quite comes to terms with. It may not be my easiest piece of software to navigate, but I have enjoyed my early testing.

Generally speaking my biggest bummer so far is the lack of built in modulators in Studio One and the sometimes complex way one needs to use '3rd party modulators' (I like Zenith from Audiare). If your plug in doesn't support midi learn, you need to set up Zenith as an 'external instrument' and route the signals thru a midi bus like loop midi to let it target the 'moved parameter' the Studio one shows. Early test with Mux show that may be playground to handle those tasks....


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## VVEremita (Apr 21, 2021)

antret said:


> I need to thank you all for this thread.  We just finished up our latest track (not posted yet) and I have the need to indulge in my love for sound/noise background washes.
> 
> I have followed most of the links here (I was familiar with some, but not all) and like a few (most?) of us, I don't really have the money/time to fall into the hardware modular rabbit hole (I've got some Reason toys, the free Cherry Audio modular stuff and just discovered MuTools Mux the other day!) I've got my few choice pieces of hardware, but I'm mostly ITB.
> 
> ...


I am glad that this thread was not just helpful to me but to you as well. Noise - the next best sound to silence and music 

It would be great if the Puremagnetik Plugins could 1. save buffers and 2. do optional live processing. Let's hope there will be more refined plugins without loosing the loveable quirky, individualistic nature.

And another conclusion I came to: Eurorack may be utterly expensive for limited functionality, but there seems to be no VST alternative to the thing Morphagene does really will, it's sweet spot. I searched the web and there are lots of people asking for something like that without a satisfying answer. There is benefit to having hardware, but I come to think that Morphagene is cherished for more than being a hardware version of something.
The good thing for me is that I already have the Eurorack infrastructure.


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## antret (Apr 21, 2021)

VVEremita said:


> I am glad that this thread was not just helpful to me but to you as well. Noise - the next best sound to silence and music


Oh, I think you were the one mentioning Cycles from Slate & Ash? I've checked that out in the past but way outside the budget.  Rigid Audio is still having their EPIC APRIL SALE and i just picked up grainstates and pad theory for $5 a piece. It looks like the prices are still that low on them. These are made with their new engine it seems and you can drag n drop files right into both (almost a prerequisite now....). Have not put them thru their paces, so cant really comment. The demos sound great + seems to be EZ to use + pricing made it a pretty easy decision.


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## Muddles (Apr 29, 2021)

You can do some stuff like this if you have the soundtoys effect rack with things like crystalliser, echoboy, the other delay one (the colourful one that I’ve obviously forgotten the name of), and small amounts of devil-loc. But it needs quite a lot of automation and luck, and usually routing complexities and muting tracks etc, so I’m sure there’s easier options!


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## antret (May 24, 2021)

Hi All! 

I'm just jumping back in here to share a very noisy, yet musical (?) FREE VSTi I just stumbled across.... Its from Audiobulb and its a free plugin called Sophia. I know the website mentions that it is standalone, but the download is a DLL file. 

I downloaded it last night and it didn't show up in Studio One 5 .... still not sure why though (maybe 32 bit plug?) But I opened up it up VSTHost and have been giving it a go this morning. Controls range from cryptic to meaningless, but I think the key with things like this is experimentation.  Early results have been fun and it seems to be more 'musical' (as in you can actually get musical pitches if needed) than Thermo from Sonic-Lab.com (which is cool in its own right). 

Looks like there is another freebie on the audiobulb site....AB-VSTi .... with controls like Disastrato and Something, it may be worth checking out!


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## gsilbers (May 24, 2021)




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## mscp (May 24, 2021)

VVEremita said:


> Dear VI-Control community,
> 
> I am looking for a plugin that takes bits out of incoming audio or samples and rearranges them in a subtle way. A way which can be controlled and randomized if needed. Additonal Eurorack recommendations are welcome!
> 
> ...



Are you familiar with INA-GRM?


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## VVEremita (Jun 29, 2021)

An experiment using NI Noire, Olafur Arnalds Evos, a synth and Puremagnetik Plugins


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## VVEremita (Jun 29, 2021)

Phil81 said:


> Are you familiar with INA-GRM?


No, but I will check it out!


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## antret (Jun 30, 2021)

VVEremita said:


> An experiment using NI Noire, Olafur Arnalds Evos, a synth and Puremagnetik Plugins


Nice work!


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