# Behringer are making their own DAW



## LinusW (Mar 8, 2020)

Behringer just announced their DAW plans in a Facebook post. 


> It’s now official. We will be creating our own Music Tribe DAW.
> This is a massive undertaking, which will take at least 18 months and for that purpose we have now assembled a large development team.
> Our Music Tribe DAW will also include samples and VST’s plus connections to third party VST’s. Our goal is to include the very best features available, including multiple user interfaces for both recording and DJ.
> We would love to develop this together with you and hence encourage you to share your preferred platforms and features so we can consider your input. Our opportunity is that we have no legacy platform to maintain, which will allow us to think “blue sky” and combine the “best of all worlds”.
> ...



Ehm, I'll pass...


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 8, 2020)

what a colossal waste of time and money! Can't imagine what Behringer is up to here, but anyway it will be moderately interesting to see what they come up with and why.


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## proxima (Mar 8, 2020)

If there's one software music market that seems oversaturated, it's the DAW market. 

Still, if they actually have some neat ideas, it's always good to see competition keep the big players on their toes. It would be ironic if they start patenting any new ideas and suing anyone who copies though...


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## Iswhatitis (Mar 8, 2020)

LinusW said:


> Behringer just announced their DAW plans in a Facebook post.
> 
> 
> Ehm, I'll pass...


I won’t ever buy anything from Behringer and encourage others to boycott them.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 8, 2020)

boycott why? I love my X32 gear. I don't really care for their cloned stuff, but I haven't bought any of it either.


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## Wes Antczak (Mar 8, 2020)

The did say free of charge, so if it helps some musicians who might not otherwise be able to afford something that's great. (I realize that Cakewalk is now also free.) What they say about legacy code also makes sense.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 8, 2020)

It’s probably not about the DAW itself, but the avalanche of compatible and integrated hardware that will follow. 

Get everyone hooked on the free software and in the ecosystem first. Then bring the flashy lights.


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## KallumS (Mar 8, 2020)

Which DAW are they going to clone?


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## José Herring (Mar 8, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> I won’t ever buy anything from Behringer and encourage others to boycott them.


But it's free.


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## Bluemount Score (Mar 8, 2020)

KallumS said:


> Which DAW are they going to clone?


Clonebase
Clone Tools
Clonio One
Logiclone Pro
FL Clonio
... 
why am I doing this


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## prodigalson (Mar 8, 2020)

"Squarebase"


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## jcrosby (Mar 8, 2020)

"Alive"
"Earwig"


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## greggybud (Mar 8, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> It’s probably not about the DAW itself, but the avalanche of compatible and integrated hardware that will follow.
> 
> Get everyone hooked on the free software and in the ecosystem first. Then bring the flashy lights.


This would be my guess too considering it's "free" and they intend the DAW to be jack of all trades. It will be fun to watch, and as always it's good to keep the competition on edge.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 8, 2020)

Reefer.


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## Monkey Man (Mar 8, 2020)

Of _course_ it'll be free. The man-hours committed to it would likely cost less than the equivalent-visibility advertising... much less.

A 24 / 7 / 365 ad for the company? You betcha.


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## Nico (Mar 8, 2020)

they built a huge fanbase with their cheap synths, 
Building a DAW, especially if it is free, seems like the next logical step to start building an ecosystem. and keep all those fans hooked. 
They can make it compatible with all current plugins, then make their own format and start selling those plugins / extensions / compatible hardware.

other DAWs developers should be worried...


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## José Herring (Mar 9, 2020)

Nico said:


> they built a huge fanbase with their cheap synths,
> Building a DAW, especially if it is free, seems like the next logical step to start building an ecosystem. and keep all those fans hooked.
> They can make it compatible with all current plugins, then make their own format and start selling those plugins / extensions / compatible hardware.
> 
> other DAWs developers should be worried...


Yes they will. I believe it will be for all plugins, but Behringer can now start bundling this software DAW with their interfaces, keyboards, ect.... In the next 5 years some kid is going to release a hit album made possible by a few hundred dollars worth of behringer gear and a laptop.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 9, 2020)

I’m sort of surprised N.I. hasn’t tried this. Yet.


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## Manaberry (Mar 9, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> I’m sort of surprised N.I. hasn’t tried this. Yet.



Maybe they have tried, but NI usually kills their projects and starts new ones in their internal incubator. We don't see much, but they sure did.


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## ptram (Mar 9, 2020)

Nico said:


> other DAWs developers should be worried...


Unless the target user base is not the one who usually doesn't pay for software.

Paolo


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## KallumS (Mar 9, 2020)

NYC Composer said:


> I’m sort of surprised N.I. hasn’t tried this. Yet.



NI recently announced that their Maschine software will essentially be a DAW.


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## DS_Joost (Mar 9, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> I won’t ever buy anything from Behringer and encourage others to boycott them.



Why? All the things I bought from them (monitor speakers, studio amplifier, audio interface, BCF2000) are quality. Well build and very attractively priced. And that Poly D looks so friggin' awesome.

Edit: I find this news very interesting. If any company has the money and manpower and hardware, and pedigree, it's them. Other DAW developers shouldn't be worried, but they should at least be interested.

This is going to be very interesting and I, for one, am going to keep an open mind towards this.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 9, 2020)

Behringer are bullies, and I’ll never support them. They’ll probably sue me for this.


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## jonathanwright (Mar 9, 2020)

As much as I don't think there's any harm in them trying this, I can't help thinking it'll be a looooonnng time before it's of any use to us.

It takes _years_ of updates before new entries on the market start to approach the features of existing products.


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## Alex Fraser (Mar 9, 2020)

jonathanwright said:


> As much as I don't think there's any harm in them trying this, I can't help thinking it'll be a looooonnng time before it's of any use to us.
> 
> It takes _years_ of updates before new entries on the market start to approach the features of existing products.


Agreed, and the new DAW probably won’t be aimed at the VIC crowd anyhow. I don’t imagine that dynamic plugin loading and articulation management are currently listed on the Behringer planning whiteboard.

The orchestra fans here on the forum are a drop in the ocean compared to EDM producers, beat makers, songwriters etc. That’s where Behringer will be casting their lustful eye.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 9, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> The orchestra fans here on the forum are a drop in the ocean compared to EDM producers, beat makers, songwriters etc. That’s where Behringer will be casting their lustful eye.



That sounds about right. My best guess is a more Abletonish BandLab.


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## greggybud (Mar 9, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> Why? All the things I bought from them (monitor speakers, studio amplifier, audio interface, BCF2000) are quality. Well build and very attractively priced. And that Poly D looks so friggin' awesome.
> 
> Edit: I find this news very interesting. If any company has the money and manpower and hardware, and pedigree, it's them. Other DAW developers shouldn't be worried, but they should at least be interested.
> 
> This is going to be very interesting and I, for one, am going to keep an open mind towards this.



Feel free to google Behringer and Mackie. Settled out of court iirc. Behringer Bashing was vogue in forums even 20 years ago, like the Eurodesk MX 24/48 series that was a copy of Mackie. More recently, try Behringer and Dave Smith. That one was laughable. DSI (not counting factory employees) is a very small company. You can call them and talk to them. They are human and they don't need a script. You tell them about the lousy encoders on the PolyEvolver, and they not only agree, but give you options for solutions...some of them practically free like replacing the boards with indented encoders. UAD is another company that is much larger, but comes to mind as great support.

And the comments at Glass Door..









Music Tribe - Absolutely Shocking Treatment of People By Uli Behringer


Pay is quite good, some nice people there




www.glassdoor.com




"Suicide is an upgrade" LOL

I think "quality" is always relative. If you think Behringer Truths are "quality"..even for their list price, so be it. There are several other monitors in that price range I would choose before the Truths. I believe tools like the BCF2000 and the X Touch & family are definitely "bang for the buck," but definitely not quality as they aren't built to last like a Mackie MCU, and have poor support. Take a look in any commercial studio and look for anything Behringer.

Uli has done a great marketing job going to forums and creating excitement. And the Deep Mind & Analog D are definitely winners in my opinion. Others definitely bring back memories. If he ever releases a Jupiter 8, I'll be tempted. But where does he go when the retro market is saturated? Where is the R&D for new innovative technology like Native Instruments had before they decided to sell out to the masses over 10 years ago?

It will be interesting to watch, and always keep an open mind. I highly doubt this will have much effect on grounded and well established DAWs that are far from..."free."


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## robgb (Mar 9, 2020)

I don't think there's anything wrong with offering a free DAW. Most of them are so fucking expensive for the full package that they're out of reach of many, many aspiring musicians. Fortunately, there are exceptions like Reaper, but even the price of that is a stretch for, say, an aspiring high school composer.

A lot of people hate Behringer for reasons I can't quite fathom. Yes, they clone other products—but who doesn't? Do you think the operating system you're reading this on was actually invented by the software company you bought it from? No. It wasn't. We wouldn't have Windows or MacOs if it weren't for Xerox.

What Behringer has done is offer decent equipment at affordable prices. And over the years, as technology has improved and Behringer has been able to acquire other audio businesses, that equipment has become better and better. I imagine there are quite a few very big name musicians who started with Behringer equipment back in the day because they couldn't afford anything else.


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## jononotbono (Mar 9, 2020)

Have never been so far away from interested than this announcement.


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## burp182 (Mar 9, 2020)

Hartley Peavey built an empire on doing 90% of the job for 50% of the money. And did it at a time when you had to actually build STUFF. In a world where almost everything can be reasonably emulated as software, why is it unfeasible that a company that already has well more than half the pieces existing in their software ecosystem simply finishes the job with the DAW and controller? Seems like the time is ripe. Uli isn't my favorite guy, as I've had friends go through the "Uli Experience" up close and personal, but the capability to make a completely integrated production universe is more fully realized inside their ecosystem than any other manufacturer I can think of and to do it at a reasonable price. 
Only time will tell but it surely seems worth watching.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 9, 2020)

Will BehringeRecord be better than Cubase, Logic, ProTools, Reaper, DP, Live or Studio One? Will it be easier to develop instant expertise on any of the aforementioned? Nope. Yawn.


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 10, 2020)

I've only got one piece of Behringer kit - A BCF2000 that must be around 15 years old as I bought it from Sound Control in the basement of HMV on Oxford Street back when I had a broad mind and a narrow waist.

It's still as good as new. Funny thing about Behringer is at the moment they seem to be giving people what they want. Look at the buzz around the RD8 analogue drum machine, and the upcoming Poly D amongst many others.

Then look at Roland - they launch a fabulous Boutique D-05 and then promptly discontinue it causing the prices of second hand units to rocket. If I were at Roland I'd have that back on the production line straight away....

Why don't companies make the stuff people are asking for ? Just doesn't add up to me.

I'm not a synth person - more orchestral, but If I were I'd be the owner of a lot of the latest Behringer analogue kit.

There seems to be a lot of snobbery around the Behringer brand - and trust me many brands have made more than a few lemons in their time - whilst milking their legacy brand names to death at the same time. But there does seem to be very prevalent around Behringer.

As a company, Behringer seems to be on an interesting trajectory at this time and I'm intrigued to see where they end up going.

One thing I cannot get my head around though is the criticism around the clones of analogue synths they have recently brought to market with such great success.

First of all, the original manufacturers decided not to make these products, which i would suggest they would have been very successful with. So that's on them.

But when a company emulates these instruments in a software VST, or samples them and sells them as a library all you hear is crickets. If it's OK to market NI FM8 and the TAL Juno software clone, why is it not OK for Behringer to do the same in hardware....

Just a thought.

As for the new DAW, it's like the new DAW from UAD that's upcoming. Free of charge to the end user, and it seems to have attracted nothing but criticism from most quarters. It will be rubbish, it won't do this, it won't do that. But talented people with little money will make the most of these products, and using skill and ingenuity will produce great things with them. For FREE.

And I really can't see what's just so bad about that.


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## gamma-ut (Mar 10, 2020)

Behringer's issue is going to be that a DAW is a long-term money sink, which doesn't look good on the books if you're not charging for it. Hardware analogue? You build it, you ship it. If it sells well, you make more and ship those. You don't have pesky updates to deal with. If a knob falls off, well, there's an aftermarket for that.

A DAW? That's a pile of long-term maintenance overhead in a company that, just to add even more cost, is bad at keeping people for any length of time (unless your name is Uli). They'd be better off recreating one of those oldskool hardware sequencers because they don't need a ton of firmware updates. Maybe Uli B thinks it's going to drive hardware sales but it's not like Apple and Logic. If you're a hardware-synth fetishist with little real interest in a DAW, you probably have something to record them that's not expensive, whether it's Audacity or Reaper.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 10, 2020)

They make inexpensive synths, so some will look away when the Behringer corporation bullies a music tech writer by making a video, buying his name, or threatens to sue a forum, etc. But hey, you know, finally an affordable Minimoog clone.  Listen to Ty Unwin in the latest Sonic Talk Video.


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## MartinH. (Mar 10, 2020)

robgb said:


> Fortunately, there are exceptions like Reaper, but even the price of that is a stretch for, say, an aspiring high school composer.



It used to be that the trial never would run out, you'd just have to wait a few seconds and click away the nag screen, like in the good old shareware days that the company founder has lived through as well. Did they change that? I'd be surprised. If you can still use the Reaper trial indefinitely that way, I really don't see the point in a free daw from a commercial developer. Everyone can save up the 60$ or whatever it is for Reaper's discounted license over time. That's like one videogame bought at release-price.

An open source DAW would be something different. Blender has been fantastic for the 3D industry imho and is gaining more and more traction. But I wouldn't want Behringer to stand behind an open source project. I simply don't trust them enough.


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## Zero&One (Mar 10, 2020)

You know life is good when people are moaning about a free DAW...


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## DS_Joost (Mar 10, 2020)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> They make inexpensive synths, so some will look away when the Behringer corporation bullies a music tech writer by making a video, buying his name, or threatens to sue a forum, etc. But hey, you know, finally an affordable Minimoog clone.  Listen to Ty Unwin in the latest Sonic Talk Video.



Sorry to be that guy, but I'm going to be that guy. Boo-fucking-hoo. I couldn't care less. At all. Sorry. But not sorry.


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## Iswhatitis (Mar 10, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> Why? All the things I bought from them (monitor speakers, studio amplifier, audio interface, BCF2000) are quality. Well build and very attractively priced. And that Poly D looks so friggin' awesome.
> 
> Edit: I find this news very interesting. If any company has the money and manpower and hardware, and pedigree, it's them. Other DAW developers shouldn't be worried, but they should at least be interested.
> 
> This is going to be very interesting and I, for one, am going to keep an open mind towards this.


I was planning on buying a Behringer X-Touch, now I have no interest in buying or using anything from Behringer free or not. They behaved in a subhuman way, so now I refuse to support their company in any way and encourage others to boycott them.


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## DS_Joost (Mar 10, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> They behaved in a subhuman way



Dude do I have a surprise about most companies you propably buy stuff from...









Uyghurs for sale







www.aspi.org.au





The actual list:

Abercrombie & Fitch, Acer, Adidas, Alstom, Amazon, Apple, ASUS, BAIC Motor, BMW, Bombardier, Bosch, BYD, Calvin Klein, Candy, Carter’s, Cerruti 1881, Changan Automobile, Cisco, CRRC, Dell, Electrolux, Fila, Founder Group, GAC Group (automobiles), Gap, Geely Auto, General Motors, Google, Goertek, H&M, Haier, Hart Schaffner Marx, Hisense, Hitachi, HP, HTC, Huawei, iFlyTek, Jack & Jones, Jaguar, Japan Display Inc., L.L.Bean, Lacoste, Land Rover, Lenovo, LG, Li-Ning, Mayor, Meizu, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Microsoft, Mitsubishi, Mitsumi, Nike, Nintendo, Nokia, The North Face, Oculus, Oppo, Panasonic, Polo Ralph Lauren, Puma, Roewe, SAIC Motor, Samsung, SGMW, Sharp, Siemens, Skechers, Sony, TDK, Tommy Hilfiger, Toshiba, Tsinghua Tongfang, Uniqlo, Victoria’s Secret, Vivo, Volkswagen, Xiaomi, Zara, Zegna, ZTE.

Don't act holier than thou. Please. This goes for more than one person in this thread.


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## Iswhatitis (Mar 10, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> Dude do I have a surprise about most companies you propably buy stuff from...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lots of companies on your list that I already won’t buy. Behringer behaved in an immoral way and I won’t support them as they can go straight to bankruptcy. At some point and time one has to decide who they will take a stand against if they feel people or companies have crossed the line of decency.

There are tons of corrupt people (billionaires and most politicians) and corporations, way more than you list, in the world and they can all go bankrupt and be sent to jail too. This forum has nothing to do with non-music companies so that’s why it’s appropriate to focus on this scumbag music merchant in this venue and not other disgusting companies like BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, Daimler, etc... Matter of fact, there is rampant corruption in entire industries like the major Pharmaceutical companies, Insurance companies, the Banking sector especially the Big Banks, the biggest Chemical companies like Dow and DuPont who are contaminating the world’s water (which I’ve talked about before), the Oil & Gas industry for permanently destroying the water supply (which I’ve talked about before), and I could go on and on and on about this. I’ve previously talked about GM’s immorality, and I would never buy a car made in Germany or from a German auto manufacturer either.

I’m not God, I can’t fix the world, none of us can. But I can do my part and be kind and generous of heart to those whom I feel deserve it, and not enable bad people and immoral companies to the best of my ability. I won’t be buying or using Behringer products anymore.

I don’t plan on living on a secluded island anytime soon so each person has to decide for themselves who they refuse to deal with and who they unfortunately have to tolerate even though they would rather not have to deal with them. 

Laws force people to deal with the Insurance industry whether you want to or not and how could any one get through life without being forced to deal with the Finance and Banking industries regardless of how much one would love to ignore and boycott them all. Some forms of protest are just not realistic, others are much more easily attainable and achieved.


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## DS_Joost (Mar 10, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> I can act anyway I want. I will never buy or use a Behringer product. Jimmy Crackcorn and I don’t care nor do I give a fvck what you think🖕Behringer behaved in an immoral way and I won’t support them as they can go straight to bankruptcy.



Ah yes, I see. You are a big boy. Good on you!


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## Tim_Wells (Mar 10, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> I've only got one piece of Behringer kit - A BCF2000 that must be around 15 years old as I bought it from Sound Control in the basement of HMV on Oxford Street back when I had a broad mind and a narrow waist.
> 
> It's still as good as new...


Not discounting your experience. But to give the other side of the coin. I also only have one Behringer item. It's a Eurorack Pro line mixer and _it crapped out within a few months of purchase_. I was not impressed. Unfortunately I bought it on the eBay gray market and there was no warranty.


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## GtrString (Mar 10, 2020)

Who wants customers that use freeware? If any new developments is not still free, they will complain. If they get a free goldmine, they will complain it is too small. Its catering for the endless complainers.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Mar 10, 2020)

I don't think it will take them long to get to a decent 1.0 of this DAW, because they will "reverse engineer" code from other companies. That's always been their business model. Then maybe they'll give the DAW away free and sell (possibly proprietary) plugins that will be very high quality and sell for a lot less than the original plugins they bear a striking resemblance to. Also, I think they may buy some companies so that the only way you can use their stuff is on their DAW (remember Alchemy?)

I don't think the main market for this is the people on this forum. Most of us have a large investment in time learning how to get the most out of our current DAWs. It will be people who would otherwise use Cakewalk. It will be people on a budget just starting out and people who make music without paying for everything.

The big advantage will be the potential for integration with their hardware, which will have a lot of advantages for many people. I believe this is part of a wider marketing scheme that pushes the aims of the brand as a whole. It wouldn't surprise me to see inexpensive controllers and Maschine-type devices in the future too. They will bundle their software with their devices.

The biggest players in this world are Native Instruments, IK Multimedia, and as strange as it might seem, inMusic (AIR, SONiVOX, Alesis, M-Audio, Akai, etc.) Behringer obviously wants to take their very successful business to a new level.


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## robgb (Mar 10, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> It used to be that the trial never would run out, you'd just have to wait a few seconds and click away the nag screen, like in the good old shareware days that the company founder has lived through as well. Did they change that?


No, that hasn't changed, which is nice, but it's not meant to be free software. People who use it regularly should pay for it.


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## Iswhatitis (Mar 10, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> Ah yes, I see. You are a big boy. Good on you!


😉


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 12, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> Sorry to be that guy, but I'm going to be that guy. Boo-fucking-hoo. I couldn't care less. At all. Sorry. But not sorry.


Love this forum’s ignore function! Boo-Bye!


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## robgb (Mar 12, 2020)

Again, those objecting to Behringer's "immorality" had better consider switching their computers to Linux. Or are your objections merely a case of confirmation bias?


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