# Pond5 announces PR collection, makes other changes



## TimCox (Aug 19, 2019)

So Pond5 has announced Pond5 Publishing: a service that will collect and distribute performance royalties. On top of that they say they’ll help composers not affiliated with a PRO get set up AND ensure cue sheets are filed by the licenser. They’ve also announced that they will now be taking 35% of the license revenue of Pond5 tracks. What are your thoughts? Does the good outweigh the bad? Are they just blowing smoke with Publishing?

EDIT: Per my misreading, it appears the composers collect 35% while P5 takes 65%. Thanks Ram250


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## InLight-Tone (Aug 19, 2019)

2 steps forward, 1 step back. 35% is BLASPHEMY!


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## gtrwll (Aug 19, 2019)

That's bullshit, and they know it. Just trying to minimize the effect on lowering the revenue going to artists by 30%.

I'm pulling all my content from the site when the new agreement takes place.


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## sIR dORT (Aug 19, 2019)

TimCox said:


> So Pond5 has announced Pond5 Publishing: a service that will collect and distribute performance royalties. On top of that they say they’ll help composers not affiliated with a PRO get set up AND ensure cue sheets are filed by the licenser. They’ve also announced that they will now be taking 35% of the license revenue of Pond5 tracks. What are your thoughts? Does the good outweigh the bad? Are they just blowing smoke with Publishing?


As in 35% of the revenue you make off your tracks being licensed? Sorry, really new to this, and was actually considering licensing some of my stuff with them, so this is kind of a bummer.


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## Jaap (Aug 19, 2019)

I am going to see for half a year/year how this is panning out with my current uploaded collection, but I feel this is not outweighing the bad to be honest. 35% is really not nice... and if the publishing deal does not make up for it after a while it is bye bye Pond5. Pitty as I have hundreds of tracks there and they are doing good.


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## ghostnote (Aug 19, 2019)

Honestly guys, I know it's work and you should be compensated for your time composing, but if one or even all publishers reject your tracks, then don't put them into a royalty free library. It really destroys the industry little by little. And yes I'm guilty doing this too. Work on your tracks, get them as good as possible and if they get rejected then move on or reuse some ideas. Quality over quantity.


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## Guido Negraszus (Aug 19, 2019)

I might be wrong but it could be that Pond5 is taking advantage of the new Audiojungle model. AJ more and more promotes the subscription model Elements even moving traffic from their artists to Elements (big Elements banners on artist portfolios). Sales have dropped for many (incl. me) this year. I myself was thinking of becoming more active on Pond5 and slowing down on AJ. Now this. To use a famous quote from "River Kway": _there's always_ the unexpected, _isn't there_ ? I increased all my prices by 50% as a first step.


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## GtrString (Aug 19, 2019)

I have considered doing Pond5, but now I won't bother. No Audiojungle for me either. Basically, publishing seems to become more and more redundant these days. I think thy are both dead in the water in a few years time.


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## Ram250 (Aug 19, 2019)

Please show your opposition to Pond5 in the mail or social media tear them guys 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡


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## Ram250 (Aug 19, 2019)

TimCox said:


> So Pond5 has announced Pond5 Publishing: a service that will collect and distribute performance royalties. On top of that they say they’ll help composers not affiliated with a PRO get set up AND ensure cue sheets are filed by the licenser. They’ve also announced that they will now be taking 35% of the license revenue of Pond5 tracks. What are your thoughts? Does the good outweigh the bad? Are they just blowing smoke with Publishing?


Small correction they take 65% now


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## Jaap (Aug 19, 2019)

Decided after a bit more thoughts to actually withdraw everything, this should not be supported, not even to just see how things evolve.


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## tsk (Aug 19, 2019)

So P5 is taking 65% now, decided without giving us a choice. All my material has been removed. The only power we have is our music...


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 19, 2019)

I don't think people should get too upset. 

Most contributors are not making a living from Pond 5.

Let these things play out and don't worry. 

Besides, Pump Audio/Getty Images did the same thing back in '09.


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## FinGael (Aug 19, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> I don't think people should get too upset.
> 
> Most contributors are not making a living from Pond 5.
> 
> ...



I respectfully disagree.

If talented content creators keep supporting firms that play with unfair rules, they work for the destruction of their own chance to make a living through composing and producing in the future.

The possibility for the service providers to be greedy comes from the fact that they can do it, because usually there are more than enough creators providing quality content to them, which gives them plenty of power to act the way they want, in maximizing their share of profit without respecting the work of the ones providing them the material.

"Even if the percentage I'll be getting is bad, it is the only way of income to me, so I have no other choice than keep supporting the service" imho is a bad choice, because it is very unlikely that this kind of development will change drastically to benefit the provider of the content more in the future.

There is a need for building a more visible collective culture, which encourages content creators to respect their creations and value their rights. If we let corporations enslave us, I'm sure they will do so. Composers and music producers do not have to be slaves for the system. It will change when we step out of the game and enough of us express our opinion through our actions about the value of the work we do.

If you disagree, it would be nice to see rational views why a dentist, doctor, teacher, lawyer or an engineer should be paid properly for their work, but composers are not entitled to this anymore?

I think that if one knows his/her work is good, it means you have a responsibility too; what you do with it will probably affect the lives and income of many other composers and producers in a way or another.


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## Ram250 (Aug 19, 2019)

FinGael said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> If talented content creators keep supporting firms that play with unfair rules, they work for the destruction of their own chance to make a living through composing and producing in the future.
> 
> ...


Totally agree brother it's time to send them a mail (everyone) as a mass movement to oppose them and we start a movement against them in social media's against Pond5 so they will not change it


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## TimCox (Aug 19, 2019)

Ram250 said:


> Totally agree brother it's time to send them a mail (everyone) as a mass movement to oppose them and we start a movement against them in social media's against Pond5 so they will not change it


There's already filmmakers being taught not to pay for music, why is it expected for composers (aka craftsmen/women) to just roll over and take it? I completely agree, composers need to start standing up for themselves.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 19, 2019)

FinGael said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> If talented content creators keep supporting firms that play with unfair rules, they work for the destruction of their own chance to make a living through composing and producing in the future.
> 
> ...




Just raise your prices. I just did!


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## gsilbers (Aug 19, 2019)

There is no coordination. there is no organization. There is no consensus. There are no unions. 
we are just like this uber drivers being exploited because well... copmanies can do that.

If we all decided to set the minimum prices for any negotiation then we woudnt be reaching bottom while the very very few composers make millions. 

if we started a music library union, with backing from BMI and ASCAP and senators so we could agree in more basic things like no publishing company will take writers share. or that tv shows wont ask publishing share. 
or that online aggregators can only take no more than 50% or if its subscription then it should be calculated in X way. or streaming services for tv should pay the same as broadcast and so on.. 

but so far, every time i mention something like it then its like meh.. or very against it.


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## TimCox (Aug 19, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> There is no coordination. there is no organization. There is no consensus. There are no unions.
> we are just like this uber drivers being exploited because well... copmanies can do that.
> 
> If we all decided to set the minimum prices for any negotiation then we woudnt be reaching bottom while the very very few composers make millions.
> ...


Library music is _ripe _for abuse. And boy howdy, is it ever.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 19, 2019)

I am pro union. It only makes sense for jobs like music. But it will never happen.

So just raise your prices at Pond5. Why go low when you can go high?


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## MauroPantin (Aug 19, 2019)

WOW! They take 65%? What a rip off!


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## col (Aug 19, 2019)

Have they made the same reductions to the other media sellers there ???

Pull your tracks or put your prices up.


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## TimCox (Aug 19, 2019)

col said:


> ...put your prices up.


It's good logic, however, it also makes this a success in Pond 5's eyes, which is unfortunate as well


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 19, 2019)

TimCox said:


> It's good logic, however, it also makes this a success in Pond 5's eyes, which is unfortunate as well



So.

Why would I keep my prices low if I am going to make less money per sale? Any other business raises prices when costs go up. So composers should stop whining and do the same.


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## rgames (Aug 19, 2019)

Yes, it's frustrating. But separate the emotion from the business side and decide whether 35% is worth your while. If Pond5 uses the savings to re-invest in their marketing efforts then maybe you'll see an increase in sales? Yeah, probably not, but in the end it doesn't matter: it's a business decision.

Here's a thought: the library gigs that earn me the most per-track are the ones where I get 0% of revenues - they pay me up front. How much do they make off those tracks? I really don't know. But it doesn't matter - I'm fine with what they pay me.

So whether you get 35% or 90% or 1% isn't the metric that matters. It's the amount of money you make and how it compares to what you are willing to take.

How many Apple employees get 35% of the revenues they generate for the company? Very few - maybe none. But the gig is still very much worth their while.

The percentage is an indicator but it's not the primary concern. So sure, push for more. But don't get too hung up on it.

rgames


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## StevenOBrien (Aug 20, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> So just raise your prices at Pond5. Why go low when you can go high?


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## J-M (Aug 20, 2019)

Yeah...Probably going to pull out my music from there. Didn't make that much sales anyway, so I'm not going to bother going through dozens of stems just to raise their price. I will not support a decision like this.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 20, 2019)

rgames said:


> So whether you get 35% or 90% or 1% isn't the metric that matters. It's the amount of money you make and how it compares to what you are willing to take.


Agree here. No skin in the game, but the real metric I'd think is how many (potential) customers your music is placed in front of. Does that 35% get you a good audience/customer base, leading to a ROI on your time creating the track?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Aug 20, 2019)

I had already talked with my partners and label in the US and we are leaving with all our content Pond5. Thats the best way to tell them what we think about their new policies.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 20, 2019)

StevenOBrien said:


>



€1406 for each cue? Oh, I love it!

I wouldn’t be surprised if someone paid that much for a cue.


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## gtrwll (Aug 20, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I had already talked with my partners and label in the US and we are leaving with all our content Pond5. Thats the best way to tell them what we think about their new policies.



This is the only way to go for anyone with even a hint of dignity and self-respect, and the only thing that can make any kind of an impact. But sadly, there will always be those who are willing to bend over and take it...


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Aug 20, 2019)

gtrwll said:


> This is the only way to go for anyone with even a hint of dignity and self-respect, and the only thing that can make any kind of an impact. But sadly, there will always be those who are willing to bend over and take it...



They can do, we don´t because we have other options and direct channels as well. Pond5 was additional not main, so we won´t miss them.


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## StevenOBrien (Aug 20, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> Does that 35% get you a good audience/customer base, leading to a ROI on your time creating the track?



50% barely did. 35% does not. Unless their new publishing endeavor will increase my PRO income (from Pond5) by over 2,000%, it won't come anywhere near making up for the change. RF is a dead-end now as far as I'm concerned, and not worth investing any further time in.

My trust in Pond5 is also completely gone at this stage. With their willingness to make sudden changes like this, and their talk about "aligning with industry standards", I'm 90% certain this is part of a longer-term strategy to move towards an unlimited subscription model, which, regardless of whether or not it's a necessary business decision for Pond5 to make, I have no interest in being a part of. My time and energy will be better spent elsewhere.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 20, 2019)

StevenOBrien said:


> 50% barely did. 35% does not. Unless their new publishing endeavor will increase my PRO income (from Pond5) by over 2,000%, it won't come anywhere near making up for the change. RF is a dead-end now as far as I'm concerned, and not worth investing any further time in.
> 
> My trust in Pond5 is also completely gone at this stage. With their willingness to make sudden changes like this, and their talk about "aligning with industry standards", I'm 90% certain this is part of a longer-term strategy to move towards an unlimited subscription model, which, regardless of whether or not it's a necessary business decision for Pond5 to make, I have no interest in being a part of. My time and energy will be better spent elsewhere.



They are already doing subscriptions with certain clients. If a client offers $50k to license unlimited music, would they say no? Of course not. The clients with money make the rules for themselves.


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## TimCox (Aug 20, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> So.
> 
> Why would I keep my prices low if I am going to make less money per sale? Any other business raises prices when costs go up. So composers should stop whining and do the same.


I'm in the boat of pulling music, all raising prices does is give P5 a win. If you want to just raise your prices then that's fine, think how much you'll make for them when you're the only composer they have left!


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## Ram250 (Aug 20, 2019)

First of all I request all to mail them stating reasonable reasons to stop this and asking them to raise to 42.5%.Rising the price Will definitely affect the sales I am also planning to leave the Pond5 😢😡😡😡


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## Erick - BVA (Aug 21, 2019)

I am in a tough situation where I work from home due to family circumstances. 
Pond5 has been my biggest income maker going on 3 years. If I leave that, my family is on the street. This is not even hyperbole. 

The fact that they are doing PRO publishing for free is a big plus for me, and they will be working to help all cue sheets get filed. I'm wondering how much someone would charge to do that work for us?
Yes it is tough to take the change to 35%. 

But I think they're working on a lot of stuff to try to increase the overall exposure and income flow (I mean the PRO publishing and cue sheet enforcement effort is one of them). 
Yeah, I realize I may be a little biased since I really have to stick with them. But I've always had a good experience with them. 

I have not uploaded a new track to Audio Jungle in over a year I think. The upload process is too convoluted and cumbersome and they favor people who've already made money. 
Which AJ gives us even less (33%) with no publishing and cue sheet efforts.

I also understand people's argument about not doing RF at all. 
I think it is actually a bit strange that I'm basically making a living from it because my music is usually kind of unpolished, but sometimes unique. Not necessarily the best combo for RF. I've heard a lot of comments from people saying that they'd listen to my music for pleasure, but not necessarily consider it "production" music.

So at some point I want to be exclusively into making music for others to listen to for pleasure -- so just Bandcamp, YT videos and other avenues of income. And also making sound effects and virtual instruments. 

But for now I'm sticking with Pond5.


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## Ram250 (Aug 21, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> I am in a tough situation where I work from home due to family circumstances.
> Pond5 has been my biggest income maker going on 3 years. If I leave that, my family is on the street. This is not even hyperbole.
> 
> The fact that they are doing PRO publishing for free is a big plus for me, and they will be working to help all cue sheets get filed. I'm wondering how much someone would charge to do that work for us?
> ...


That's not the issue you won't get royalty man because 90% is youtube, Facebook, vimeo usage and also aj has exclusive option which is 65% share so 33% for non exclusive for aj is fine what I say is 42.5% for us is OK since it's non exclusive I will start to damage Pond5 reputation with my massive million followers soon.Are we a joke for them? People like you are the reason behinfd their decision


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## Erick - BVA (Aug 21, 2019)

Ram250 said:


> That's not the issue you won't get royalty man because 90% is youtube, Facebook, vimeo usage and also aj has exclusive option which is 65% share so 33% for non exclusive for aj is fine what I say is 42.5% for us is OK since it's non exclusive I will start to damage Pond5 reputation with my massive million followers soon.Are we a joke for them? People like you are the reason behinfd their decision


I have been getting some royalties, but not significant yet. My only hope is that this will change that. Yeah, I really do hope Pond5 does decide to do an exclusive option at some point, with an increase in percentage to the creator.


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## Ram250 (Aug 21, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> I have been getting some royalties, but not significant yet. My only hope is that this will change that. Yeah, I really do hope Pond5 does decide to do an exclusive option at some point, with an increase in percentage to the creator.


Yeah I do receive some but it can't compensate the present reduced percentage man what I am trying tosay instead of complaining or worrying here in forum... Everyone just mail them with your proper reasons and ask them to. Increase the percentage by few like 42.5 or atleast 40% if everyone does it they will consider it... I did that you also do don't be a slave man


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 21, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> I have been getting some royalties, but not significant yet. My only hope is that this will change that. Yeah, I really do hope Pond5 does decide to do an exclusive option at some point, with an increase in percentage to the creator.



If you are making money from Pond5, stay with them. Don’t change you plan because everyone else is doing it. Everyone’s situation is different, and you need to do what is best for you.

I am leaving all of my music there and raising my prices.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 21, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> I am in a tough situation where I work from home due to family circumstances.
> Pond5 has been my biggest income maker going on 3 years. If I leave that, my family is on the street. This is not even hyperbole.
> 
> The fact that they are doing PRO publishing for free is a big plus for me, and they will be working to help all cue sheets get filed. I'm wondering how much someone would charge to do that work for us?
> ...


First of all, congrats on supporting the family with music. Anyone who can do so gets my respect.

You touch on something that I've been considering whilst watching this thread. I think folk are getting hung up on the percentage increase ("My music is worth more than that!") and a wider view is the better option. Ultimately, every composer has to crunch their own numbers. If I was getting an acceptable ROI of my time composing at 35%, I'd carry on and wouldn't want to be made to feel guilty about it, especially if it put food on the table. Like others have said, you still have some control, like raising prices.

I'm assuming that P5 haven't just ripped out the rug for no reason and are giving justification for the rate decrease.


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## Ram250 (Aug 21, 2019)

Pleas


Alex Fraser said:


> First of all, congrats on supporting the family with music. Anyone who can do so gets my respect.
> 
> You touch on something that I've been considering whilst watching this thread. I think folk are getting hung up on the percentage increase ("My music is worth more than that!") and a macro view is the better option. Ultimately, every composer has to crunch their own numbers. If I was getting an acceptable ROI of my time composing at 35%, I'd carry on and wouldn't want to be made to feel guilty about it, especially if it put food on the table. Like others have said, you still have some control, like raising prices.
> 
> I'm assuming that P5 haven't just ripped out the rug for no reason and are giving justification for the rate decrease.


Please mail them with proper reasons so to. Increase to 42.5% or give some exclusive option


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 21, 2019)

Ram250 said:


> Pleas
> 
> Please mail them with proper reasons so to. Increase to 42.5% or give some exclusive option




No, 42.5% is still less than 50%. That will not do anything. Pond5 is not going to change their position. The decision has been made and they are moving to 35%. End of story.

So just raise your prices on your music. You have direct control over that.


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## Ram250 (Aug 21, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> No, 42.5% is still less than 50%. That will not do anything. Pond5 is not going to change their position. The decision has been made and they are moving to 35%. End of story.
> 
> So just raise your prices on your music. You have direct control over that.


Increasing the price by 40% will definitely decrease the sales by a big margin I curse Pond5 they will close the company soon


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 21, 2019)

Ram250 said:


> Increasing the price by 40% will definitely decrease the sales by a big margin I curse Pond5 they will close the company soon



Oh give it a rest. Pond5 will do fine. 

Just pull your music off the site if you are too scared to raise your prices. 

Wishing bad in the company is not going to help you or anyone else succeed in life.


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## GtrString (Aug 21, 2019)

Maybe Getty bought them? As P5 seem to "allign" with their "standards"..


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## Montisquirrel (Aug 21, 2019)

Really smart of them. Taking more % and the users raise their prices. Double win for Pond5.
Last year I did one afternoon of researches about Pond5, AJ and similar websites and thought about joining them but it only took some hours for me to find out that I will not take part in destroying my own business.


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## Erick - BVA (Aug 21, 2019)

Montisquirrel said:


> Really smart of them. Taking more % and the users raise their prices. Double win for Pond5.
> Last year I did one afternoon of researches about Pond5, AJ and similar websites and thought about joining them but it only took some hours for me to find out that I will not take part in destroying my own business.


If you can make a living in music without them, more power to you. 
For whatever reason, the situation I am in today does not allow me that luxury. I hope soon I can be completely independent.


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## SBK (Aug 21, 2019)

damn! that was a bomb! devastating percentage. I wonder whats the future of RF stock libraries and for us composers there. Audiojungle elements has already devastated the authors there and I hope something good happens for us authors, since we are their "products" and without us they would have nothing... I hope something good happens for us


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 21, 2019)

ka00 said:


> I just searched you on Pond5. Geez Louise, you have 3671 songs on there! Wow, kudos. Is that the kind of output it takes to live off of library music?



Yes. Quantity is King.

I only have a little over 600 pieces on Pond5. I need more and more and more material out there!


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## Erick - BVA (Aug 21, 2019)

ka00 said:


> I just searched you on Pond5. Geez Louise, you have 3671 songs on there! Wow, kudos. Is that the kind of output it takes to live off of library music?


Thanks!
Lots of edits, lots of experimentation and "questionable" quality over the last 5-6 years, especially my first year or two. I've been wanting to take down those tracks of "lesser" quality for some time. I'm kind of a procrastinator though.

While to get any traction these days you do need to have a high output, I've been trying to focus more on quality....and still output as much as I can.

I still can't stand myself if I don't experiment and try to do things the way I want to. So I think it's been quite a few months sine I've released any Ukulele tracks. It's just not me 

I was pretty astonished with myself when last year I nearly earned in music what I earned at Booking.com 4 years ago (customer service full time with Russian language premium). A family member had become disabled and I had to make a decision to be fired or quit. I was going to be fired because I was getting too many points due to leaving all the time. It was unsafe to be away from home so the FMLA wasn't really going to solve anything. They don't guarentte an income, just that you won't be fired due to a disability of a family member. So I decided to quit at my own volition, and perhaps have it reflect better than a firing on a resume.

Bear in mind that I also sell on other sites, and also sell Kontakt instruments, sounds, etc.
But last year Pond5 was 60-70% of my income. This year it's even more of a percentage. Summer has been a little pale in sales though --but it kind of always is.

I hope that in a few years I can start working out of the home more. I can only hope that these past years will be a good resume booster at the very least.

Anyways, I think I'll leave it at that for my comments. I don't want this thread to be about my job and family.
But just to put things into perspective for me.


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## Ram250 (Aug 21, 2019)

Yeah i


Sibelius19 said:


> Thanks!
> Lots of edits, lots of experimentation and "questionable" quality over the last 5-6 years, especially my first year or two. I've been wanting to take down those tracks of "lesser" quality for some time. I'm kind of a procrastinator though.
> 
> While to get any traction these days you do need to have a high output, I've been trying to focus more on quality....and still output as much as I can.
> ...


Yeah we understand you bro. But if we all mail them atleast they will increase to 40+% btw whata the pay you usually receive from them I get like 300+ dollars


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## Erick - BVA (Aug 21, 2019)

Ram250 said:


> Yeah i
> 
> Yeah we understand you bro. But if we all mail them atleast they will increase to 40+% btw whata the pay you usually receive from them I get like 300+ dollars


It varies quite a bit. Not sure I feel comfortable divulging a number though. I will send a message to them though. You're right about that, couldn't hurt.


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## StevenOBrien (Aug 21, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> But last year Pond5 was 60-70% of my income. This year it's even more of a percentage. Summer has been a little pale in sales though --but it kind of always is.
> 
> I hope that in a few years I can start working out of the home more. I can only hope that these past years will be a good resume booster at the very least.
> 
> ...



I would strongly encourage you to look for other ways to monetize your catalogue. Don't think along the lines of "Well, 35% is better than nothing". As I said in my previous post, I can foresee Pond5 following AudioJungle's (Envato's) route of going for a $15/month subscription model to stay competitive, which will completely decimate your income when it happens.

I'm not saying pull all of your music off in protest if you're not in a position to do that, but get yourself to a point where it won't really matter to you what Pond5 does. RF is just one part of a much bigger picture. You have a huge catalogue that could be earning you so much more money if you can find a better home for it.


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## Ram250 (Aug 21, 2019)

I say again just send them a mail regarding this in a reasonable way they may consider that. It costs nothing to do. That


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## rgames (Aug 21, 2019)

If you really want to protest against Pond5 then I think pulling your tracks is not the right approach.

Raise your prices to $1000 per track. That'll make your feelings known and, if you also aim to disrupt their business, be just as effective in that regard. So you produce two results rather than none.

rgames


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## SBK (Aug 21, 2019)

pffff


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## chuck.dallas (Aug 23, 2019)

I wonder if Pond5 seriously considered an Exclusive Option for Music Contributors, similar to what they offer to their Video Artists: 









Become a Pond5 Exclusive Video Artist


License your footage exclusively through Pond5 for benefits including a higher revenue share, faster curation, and enhanced support.




www.pond5.com





There are a number of clients that won't take Non-Exclusive music tracks, no matter how good they are, because of the risks (perceived and actual) involved. That may not be P5's core client base, but it's definitely a segment of the marketplace that could be a significant area of growth for them. 

What are your thoughts about P5 offering an Exclusive Option for Music Artists with a 60/40 split (60% to Artists, 40% to P5)? The curation/review process might change to ensure quality content, but that's to be expected. Any other ideas about this?


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## Erick - BVA (Aug 23, 2019)

chuck.dallas said:


> I wonder if Pond5 seriously considered an Exclusive Option for Music Contributors, similar to what they offer to their Video Artists:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have had conversations with Mike Pace in which he mentioned them considering this option. I think his hands are kind of tied. I think it's something he would like to see. I did express with him the desire to have this option in place. But I guess they opted to go in a different direction for now. 
I wouldn't rule it out at some point (at least I hope so). 
I also think it's really the only way to curb the over-saturation. I actually think that at some point for the health of the industry, libraries need get have a tougher process involved in accepting new artists and get a lot more picky with their track acceptances. The pie slices are getting smaller and smaller for each person.
It sucks for newcomers, but I was a later comer (libraries started some 15-20 years ago?). It's already hard enough now. There are over 1,000,000 music tracks on Pond5. How many I wonder on Audiosparx (a place I won't touch with a 10 foot pole)?


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 23, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> There are over 1,000,000 music tracks on Pond5. How many I wonder on Audiosparx (a place I won't touch with a 10 foot pole)?



LMFAO!


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## Ram250 (Aug 23, 2019)

In my view only audiojungle and Pond5 are really in SM MARKET THEY OCCUPY 90%


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## Yellow Studio (Aug 23, 2019)

I think they at least could have offered an exclusive deal with a 50/50 split. That would have been fine for me. 
The old statement don’t put all eggs in the same basket has become true for me, ha ha
I started out on Pond5 2012.
I quit my day job 2017 and made a living from P5 since then. About 80-85% of my income.
And now they want me to spend a year or 2 just to get back to where I am today.
That’s crazy.

When they did the survey I was so sure that they would offer exclusive music on the marketplace. I couldn’t imagine this move.

But it’s not the end of the world.

Time to go exclusive I guess and try new paths where I can make up to those 30% of loss of income instead of writing new music for Pond5.


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## Ram250 (Aug 23, 2019)

If we combine and pressure them they would come back to normal 50% we shoukd keep on pushing them


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## jcrosby (Aug 23, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> I don't think people should get too upset.
> 
> Most contributors are not making a living from Pond 5.
> 
> ...


There's a reason why its called a race to the bottom.

One company undercuts everyone and offers a low percentage artist split.
Competing companies respond by lowering percentages.

After enough of the competition has dropped to a competitive margin, how will the initial _undercutting_ company respond? By either lowering their margin again, possibly dropping their pricing, or perhaps converting to an unlimited use subscription service. Rinse and repeat until we have a 99 cent RF licensing market.

Lets look at a worse scenario: AudioSparx has a perpetuity clause for your catalog. Everything you upload stays with them for life. So what happens if AudioSparx eventually follows suit by lowering your cut to 35%? Or they feel inclined to get more aggressive and bump down to 30%? Maybe they decide to force a price reduction or do unlimited use subscriptions.. What are you going to do about it if you can't remove your music because of that clause in perpetuity?

More importantly what happens if a scenario plays out where and other companies respond the same way; requiring distribution of your music in perpetuity while taking more of your cut, and dropping prices?

If you don't opt out of each before their perpetuity clause goes into effect you may find yourself in 10 years in a market where your music is perpetually being licensed for 99 cents with no way to pull it down...

Hypothetical? Maybe. However many companies that were previously respected have moved to subscription. So AFAIC, although hypothetical, something like this is also likely.

Supporting companies that do this only contributes to the inevitability of some kind of scenario similar in some way to this playing out at some point in the future.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 23, 2019)

jcrosby said:


> There's a reason why its called a race to the bottom.
> 
> One company undercuts everyone and offers a low percentage artist split.
> Competing companies respond by lowering percentages.
> ...



Scary thoughts.

Thankfully I have another source of income.


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## jcrosby (Aug 24, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> Scary thoughts.
> 
> Thankfully I have another source of income.



Me as well, but scary all the same... The real bummer is Pond5 always did right by me until this, and it was abrupt an shift... Honestly it's kind of a bummer, the only RF/NE library I had any faith left in ... 6-10k extra annual income gone in a snap of the fingers.


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## MatFluor (Aug 27, 2019)

Time to create a Union.
In the European sense, not the American sense. As far as I know (and that's not much in that area), the European model is far less "hardcore" than the US model where it seems that the Union are just the opposition to the employers, no matter what.

Well, I would be in - basic contracts, minimum "wage" and whatnot - but my simple guess is that most people are not comfortable discussing what a reasonable rate is (granted, it is hard to define, very hard).

But mainly - screw ripping off us. Rather do a Kevin MacLeod and go full RF than this. I bet other RF sites want to follow suit - or bait the leaving folks with their "better" conditions...


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## Erick - BVA (Aug 27, 2019)

MatFluor said:


> But mainly - screw ripping off us. Rather do a Kevin MacLeod and go full RF than this. I bet other RF sites want to follow suit - or bait the leaving folks with their "better" conditions...



He basically gives ALL of his music away for free, and I think the only thing he charges is like $50 for a pack of thousands of his tracks. Some of it okay, but most of it fairly generic. But I hear it in youtube videos all over the place. And he's got a relatively big fan base on youtube. I've had some critical comments about some of his music and the wolves descended upon me or they don't get my humor.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 28, 2019)




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## Desire Inspires (Aug 28, 2019)

Poor Peleton may need to get some music from Pond5. 









Peloton warns that its inability to license premium music for its at-home workout classes could be one of the major downfalls to its business model


"We cannot compel third parties to license their music to us," the S-1 said. "And our business may be adversely affected if our access to music is limited."




www.businessinsider.com


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## SBK (Aug 28, 2019)

after this long time I think we all got used to this right? like there is anything to do about it...


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## Erick - BVA (Aug 28, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> Poor Peleton may need to get some music from Pond5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds more like they're using music licensing as a scapegoat for their failing business.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 31, 2019)

Sibelius19 said:


> Sounds more like they're using music licensing as a scapegoat for their failing business.



Yes. Peleton is about to go public in the stock market and is unprofitable. That is what tech companies do these days; spend other peoples’ money!


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## gtrwll (Sep 2, 2019)

Just sent a request to remove all my files and delete my account. According to their forums, there are tens of thousands tracks being removed, and I very much suspect that they ain't the worst quality tracks going out the window. I see only one way this leads.


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## Erick - BVA (Sep 4, 2019)

pond5greedybastard said:


> Have some self respect for your music. Don`t let them bully you by taking 75% of the cut. Only true motivation they have is greed. Step 1) Hike up your prices-way up. Step 2) Remove your contents from them. Step 3) Do nothing and let the greedy CEO take more from you-hey why don`t you just work for free? F$%& Pond5 and all other sites is what any self respecting person should do. You will not be making any money from them. That`s ok. Most importantly, they will go bankrupt and that should be perfectly fine with any self respecting person. Or, let yourself be screwed. You all have a choice.


Easy for you to say. Why are you spamming dude?
They don't take 75%. It would be 65%, non-exclusive and adding administrative work to help with PRO publishing.
It's really not that unreasonable. You are right, we have the freedom to do what we want. We don't have to sell through them. For me I've built up a good working relationship with them and it would be foolish for me to quit working with them since I get a significant amount of money from them, and if you read carefully, I am not in a position to.
I am part of their "select" music and sounds (indemnified), as well as part of the "membership" collection. I've worked too hard and have gotten too far to just up and quit Pond5. I makes no sense for me in my circumstance at this current time.


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## Mike Greene (Sep 4, 2019)

I deleted the 10 Pond5GreedyBastard posts and banned him. I don't know anything about Pond5, so complaints about them may or may not be warranted, but obviously someone chooses a screen name like Pond5GreedyBastard is joining for the purposes of carrying out a vendetta, which is not what the forum is for.


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## Hasen6 (Oct 1, 2020)

Desire Inspires said:


> So just raise your prices at Pond5. Why go low when you can go high?


I don't think you understand how it works, no matter what your prices are, you still only get 35% of it, making your prices low or high it's the same deal.

I think we can only blame ourselves for the way the RF library industry has gone - I guess we're just willing to work for peanuts so the big companies keep reducing the number of peanuts we actually receive. While the app industry for example has been stuck all along at 70% for the content provider, with 30% taken for Apple, Google play.

Plus the RF libraries know we are stuck with them since we already have so much content on there. So if they just suddenly change the cut from 50% to 35% we feel we can't go anywhere else.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Oct 1, 2020)

Hasen6 said:


> Plus the RF libraries know we are stuck with them since we already have so much content on there. So if they just suddenly change the cut from 50% to 35% we feel we can't go anywhere else.



Well, we can simply pull the plug. I took my entire catalog off Pond5, it's that easy.


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## Hasen6 (Oct 1, 2020)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, we can simply pull the plug. I took my entire catalog off Pond5, it's that easy.


Well of course but what you'll find is most people don't. Only about 20-30% seem to complain about the low rates composers get at AJ and Pond5 while the rest either accept it or even defend it....! If everyone was like you we never would have gotten into this in the first place.

Interestingly in the game world Steam's cut is 30% and "73% of devs don’t think Steam’s 30% cut is fair" lol, while at itchio and gamejolt you can literally CHOOSE what percentage you give them and the default seems to be 10%....talk about a whole different world.


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