# VSL keeps on synchron-izing



## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 1, 2018)

VSL just added the Appassionata Strings to their synchron-ized palette. What do you think?

https://www.vsl.co.at/de/Synchron_Package/Synchron_Appassionata_Strings


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## keepitsimple (Sep 1, 2018)

They can keep Synchron-izing all they want as far as i'm concerned as long as they eventually release Synchron Steinway piano 

Unrelated sorry.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 1, 2018)

Doesn't make sense to me. I have the full library + some MIRx venues. Meaning, all the articulations and some great sounding instant spatialisation options. The synchron-ized version offers less articulations and has been placed into the Synchron MIR roompack. My current Appassionata offers both more articulations as well as reverb options. What exactly am I missing out on?

It may make some sense for people who don't own Appassionata at all and are looking for a less costly option than original App + MIRx, but honestly, for existing users, this should be a free update ...


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## dhlkid (Sep 1, 2018)

I rather get new samples / recording


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## jamwerks (Sep 1, 2018)

Chamber & Appassionata are the ones that don't overlap with their new strings. They probably won't do their old Percussion, but will be curious to see if they do their Woodwinds & Brass?


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## novaburst (Sep 1, 2018)

It seems the Synchron sound and tone is a big hit with listeners and users, VSL now giving a choice of the two,
a very smart move but when you think of it why not, once you get used to the synchron sound its very hard to turn back it certainly is refreshing.

They will also get a reboot on many of there librarys if they take this root, I wonder if Diemention is next


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## Vadium (Sep 1, 2018)

novaburst said:


> I wonder if Diemention is next


it may be usefull for Dimension - if user will able to accept to each separate violin inside a one group with autodivizi for individual placement inside MIR. For now it is not possible with Vienna Instruments - to play on the one instrument and have 8 separate outputs (from each violin)

(only if you will load 8 instances with 1 violin) - but in this case you are haven't autodivizi)


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## Olfirf (Sep 1, 2018)

I also got almost all VSL string offerings in full version and these do not interest me at all. I wouldn't mind them, if they were not included in the Synchron package, but as they are, this is bad and further decreases the likelihood of me getting any more Synchron products, as I would have to get them to benefit from the bundle discount ... much like the Spitfire Ensembles - I hate these!
Seriously, I get the feeling that VSL might have some problems generating enough profit form their current offerings. Otherwise, I simply cannot find a reason, why they would release these lame revisions of their older products.


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## Tfis (Sep 1, 2018)

How many mic positions do the synchronized strings have?


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## camelot (Sep 1, 2018)

People like me, who own Appassionata and several MirX extensions are certainly not the target for this product.

It might be interesting for those who always avoided VSL for their dry samples and are now buying into Synchron. Especially if you are disappointed by the Synchron Strings, this might present itself as a valid alternative for strings in Synchron, as they were once quite popular. I did not compared it myself so I may be wrong, but this might still offer more articulations than the actual Synchron strings. 

This synchronizing helps VSL pushing both, the old line and the new Synchron line.


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## Symfoniq (Sep 1, 2018)

The longer VSL keeps pushing out half-baked products like this and ignoring the elephant in the room that is a flawed and dishonestly marketed Synchron Strings release, the less likely it is that I'll ever buy another product from them.


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## HBen (Sep 1, 2018)

VSL should announce two more Synchron pianos, Steinway and Bösendorfer, I would seriously consider to buy them. I am not interested in any of these Synchronizing string products at all. For strings, I would like to see new recordings. They are good at sampling pianos, they should continue to finish Synchron piano lines first. 

As customers, we don't even have a basic road map to show us where the Synchron line is heading to. I guess VSL has no idea about this as well.


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## Eptesicus (Sep 1, 2018)

Symfoniq said:


> The longer VSL keeps pushing out half-baked products like this and ignoring the elephant in the room that is a flawed and dishonestly marketed Synchron Strings release, the less likely it is that I'll ever buy another product from them.



This. I don't know what they are thinking


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 1, 2018)

I think syncron is just their attempt at releasing something with baked in reverb, similar as some other products out there. Syncron is not for me and if you already have MIR PRO, I personally can't see a good compelling reason to go with Syncron at all. But for people that haven't gotten into VSL because of the "dryness" of it, the Syncron approach will eventually be something they might be interested in.


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## StatKsn (Sep 1, 2018)

If those Synchron-ized strings actually sound decent (which I suppose) then isn't that basically demolishing the whole premise around the Synchron line - that it has the real hall reflection - because it proves that the Synchron sound can be easily simulated by dry samples + IR + a bit of mixing, with more mixing/modulating freedom than baked-in reverb samples? I can't help but...

Brass and percussion is the area real space matters a lot, though, and I don't hear any talk about Synchron Brass yet...


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 1, 2018)

I like this for new users who want a sound out-of-the-box without dealing with reverb and all that stuff. But these are the old (but well recorded) samples, so nothing new. There are other developers with "better" options, sound and innovation, and, with a better price tag.

I like the sound of the old Appassionata Strings, but I'm not so happy with the legatos. Maybe the re-edited ones sound different? I'm also interested in how the legatos of the synchron-ized Chamber Strings sound.

But this synchron-izing doesn't fit in the Synchron concept. These are the old samples recorded in another place. Of course, space matters a lot. I think even with strings. I mean, they own the Synchron Stage, why aren't they recording like hell? I think that they need money, but than they have to offer some real innovations in order to convince me buying new stuff from them. I can synchron-ize all of my VSL libraries on my own.


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## muziksculp (Sep 1, 2018)

Instead of developing a new real Synchron based Appassionata Strings library, they take the shortcut route of transforming their original Appassionata Strings to Synchronized Library. 

Not what I was hoping to see VSL do. Appssionata Strings needs to get more articulations, and to be recorded in the new Synchron Stage, that would make more sense.


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## DaddyO (Sep 1, 2018)

omiroad said:


> Are they still going to update Vienna Instruments, such as adding HiDPI support? Or will they say that we should just "update" our instruments if we want to get updates for the player?



Bingo. If they fail to update VI Pro it will be a sad day. They indeed will be telling longtime customers you have to re-buy what you already own in order to take advantage of enhancements that we (wrongly) assumed would be coming down the pike within the VI environment.

Honestly? The idea that this may be the case makes me consider jumping on the new Spitfire Studio Strings at introductory pricing. Both Brass and Winds are said to be coming soon. I have worked almost exclusively with VSL. I own the whole Special Edition Bundle, VI Pro, VE Pro, and MIR Pro. They made VE Pro compatible with hi-res monitors when they released version 6 about two years ago. I expected a VI Pro 3 within a year or so to do the same thing. But instead it appears that all efforts over the last two years have been devoted to the Synchron Series. We have no idea if further development of VI Pro is forthcoming or not. VSL gives us NO IDEA of any road map. What are we left to think? 

Hey, VSL is free to do what they want, they don't owe me anything. But I am free to do what I want, and they are driving a loyal VSL user away from investing with them because if things go the way they look now I'll consider myself burned. 

VSL's silence over the Synchron Strings problem and what we can expect going forward does not engender confidence in me.


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## muziksculp (Sep 1, 2018)

DaddyO said:


> VSL's silence over the Synchron Strings problem and what we can expect going forward does not engender confidence in me.



You can say that again. I have no clue where VSL is heading, but I don't like what they are doing lately. Sad to see VSL losing their loyal customers.


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## novaburst (Sep 1, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> I have no clue where VSL is heading



It looks like they are getting as much of there older library's as possible into the synchron tone perhaps one or two new developments in the process.



muziksculp said:


> Sad to see VSL losing their loyal customers.



Is loyalty given only when things go the way we want it or is it following even when things appear not to be going our way.

If loyalty is broken because the developer is moving in a direction we don't favour then one needs to question weather loyalty was ever there to begin with.

Loyalty is a very powerful word, perhaps we should be using long term customer.


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## muziksculp (Sep 1, 2018)

Loyalty is not a given. It depends on what the developer does, and in this case VSL is going in a very odd direction that makes no sense to me. Maybe I'm an odd case of loyalty, but I feel that my loyalty to VSL has been shaken by their decisions, not mine.


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## Casiquire (Sep 2, 2018)

What the heck, VSL, it's one misstep after another lately isn't it? I wouldn't normally consider Synchron-ized Appassionata a misstep, I think it's actually a great idea. However during the current sale for the new Synchron version, it's STILL more expensive than the original Appassionata Standard Edition with half the articulations! When the sale is over you can buy the original Appassionata and two MIRx rooms for close to the same price and have twice the articulations and room sounds.

You guys. Stop. Take a few breaths. Think.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 2, 2018)

Yeah, the price tag is very high, compared to the "older" libraries (with only one mic position) and also compared to the competition (with several mic positions). And I'm wondering what's about the muted articulations... Synchron-ized Chamber and Appassionata Strings don't have a number like in "Synchron Strings I". It would be a really great step if they released this synchron-ized collections with standard and con sordino in one package, that would be a great option.

I think they should rethink their prices in general, in my opinion. I don't have any Spitfire libraries, but their recent release is very attractive, in terms of the price and the (divisi) features.


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## wbacer (Sep 2, 2018)

How about a discount for existing owners of Appassionata Strings, any word on that?


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 2, 2018)

wbacer said:


> How about a discount for existing owners of Appassionata Strings, any word on that?


Not yet, but I think there will be an option like with the chamber strings.


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## camelot (Sep 2, 2018)

wbacer said:


> How about a discount for existing owners of Appassionata Strings, any word on that?


But does that make any sense? From the Appassionata users of old, who would be really interested in buying this thing? All of them here clearly showed their disinterest. 

If they drop VIPro for the Synchron Player, that would be really ugly. A nasty thing that may be possible if they should decide to dedicate themselves fully to the Synchron line. Maybe they keep up the support for VIPro, as long as people are still buying things from the silent stage line or as long as their Synchron line is not yet complete. However, VSL does not really has a reputation for dropping their old stuff. They hang on old things as long as possible without much reconsideration of the price tag to adapt to market situation.

From my point of view, I am generally fine with whatever they put out to keep themselves alive. It would be more than just a shame if one of the big players (EW, VSL, or Spitfire) would go down. I would not be able to do what I do without them. And whenever they make some profit, they might spend it on developing something new that ends up being something I can't do without, like VEpro.


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## Eptesicus (Sep 2, 2018)

camelot said:


> B
> From my point of view, I am generally fine with whatever they put out to keep themselves alive.o.



Their primary focus should be to fix Synchron Strings 1. Nothing else. If they don't, it will hurt their WHOLE Synchron orchestral line going forward. It makes no sense business wise , NOT to fix it. It would also help to build bridges with the customers who are **** off at them.


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## wbacer (Sep 2, 2018)

Eptesicus said:


> Their primary focus should be to fix Synchron Strings 1. Nothing else. If they don't, it will hurt their WHOLE Synchron orchestral line going forward. It makes no sense business wise , NOT to fix it. It would also help to build bridges with the customers who are **** off at them.


I invested in and am as disappointed in Synchron Strings as everyone else is but there is the slight possibility that they don't feel it needs fixing. Then again their remaining mute on the issue tells a whole different story. Just ignoring the issue in the hope that it will go away is not good bridge building...


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## HBen (Sep 2, 2018)

It looks like that VSL shall do nothing to fix Synchron Strings 1, what's done is done. The silence on the issue is the final answer, they choose not to respond on the demand.


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## synergy543 (Sep 2, 2018)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> VSL just added the Appassionata Strings to their synchron-ized palette. What do you think?
> 
> https://www.vsl.co.at/de/Synchron_Package/Synchron_Appassionata_Strings



The comments are rather harsh considering no one has heard these yet.

The real questions are, what do they sound like? And what can be done with them? 

Listen carefully and you may hear something interesting.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 2, 2018)

synergy543 said:


> The comments are rather harsh considering no one has heard these yet.
> 
> The real questions are, what do they sound like? And what can be done with them?
> 
> Listen carefully and you may hear something interesting.



Well, people know exactly what they sound like, it's a 12 year old library or something.


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## tmhuud (Sep 2, 2018)

Oh. I am super excited over the Appassionat's. I have the originals and use them a lot.


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## wbacer (Sep 2, 2018)

I really want the Appassionata's to sound amazing with the new interface. I just think that Synchron strings has left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. If VSL has moved on and they feel that Synchron strings are great then give us some soaring strings demos with amazing legatos and then follow them up with some tutorials on how to do that so that the rest of us can also make them soar. After that I know I would feel more confident in investing in the rest of the future synchron / synchronized line.


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## muk (Sep 3, 2018)

It's futile to speculate before having heard anything, but if they sound as bad as the Synchroniced Chamber Strings it will be another dent in VSL's reputation. I really don't get the concept behind this. They sell a library dry. Then they reduce the number of articulations, slap artificial reverb on it, and sell it again? Weird. I really don't understand why anybody would want to buy that, except to save bucks over the dry library.

As to VSL 'fixing' Synchron Strings I, I don't see that happening. VSL is very diligent in fixing any technical issues, but I haven't ever seen them reconsider what you could call aesthetical choices. I suspect that they will release more articulations for Synchron Strings in an add-on library. Maybe they will even tweak the legato programming a bit. But apart from that I would be surprised if they were to make drastic changes to Synchron Strings I. Which is why I gave mine back.


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## richhickey (Sep 3, 2018)

Synchron-ized is a cash grab - you can do way more, with better sound, with the original libs and MIR(x). Plus it completely destroys the storytelling around recording in a space, mic mixing etc. It's astonishes me that they've destroyed the Synchron brand's value proposition like this, or at least so soon 

TBH I'd be happiest to see VSL to do something, anything almost, that _doesn't_ say 'Synchron'.


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## Saxer (Sep 3, 2018)

As far as I understand it: Their main goal is probably to get their Synchron Studio booked. For whatever reason it seems important to them to have a sample line that matches live recording sound. Kind of a signature sound. Use the samples and add real orchestra for the important parts and it will fit in. But less interesting for most of the sample customers as most of them won't book a live orchestra anyway.


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## Nicola74 (Sep 3, 2018)

Demos of Appassionata Synchronized are out...


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## wbacer (Sep 3, 2018)

Also a new Synchron Player build was released today.


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## richhickey (Sep 3, 2018)

Here's an idea, how about they release whatever sample content they found to make SynCS as an update to CS? Things like softs, flautando, more non-vibs, creation of second violins etc. I'd pay for that.


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## Salorom (Sep 3, 2018)

Fake Synchron libraries, I see fake Synchron libraries everywhere.


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## HBen (Sep 3, 2018)

Some Reeeeeeeeal Synchron libraries, please. Brass and Woodwinds.  Let's forget about strings, the worst part of it.


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## Salorom (Sep 3, 2018)

You mean like the actual Synchron Percussion I?
You are so stuck in 2017.


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## Tfis (Sep 3, 2018)

still waiting for the "fairy dust" edition with a baked in boost at 10khz.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 3, 2018)

I thought the VSL policy was supposed to be that you never pay for the same sample twice, or have I got the wrong end of the stick ?


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## C-Wave (Sep 3, 2018)

Guy Bacos, great composer!
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Synchron_Appassionata_Strings#!Demos


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 3, 2018)

Guy Bacos knocks it out of the park once again. But the demo shows what we already knew: that Appassionata Strings is a fine library with very specific strengths.
That's what it already was without any Synchron makeover.


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 3, 2018)

VSL is a wonderful company, but I must admit I'm kind of worried about their current direction. I wish they'd stop spending time on all of this repackaging of old (and growing older) libraries, and head off in a new direction. It really reminds me of record labels re-releashing their catalogs on cassette and then CD.


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## StatKsn (Sep 3, 2018)

Then maybe de-synched Synchron Strings I next?!


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## Tfis (Sep 4, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> VSL is a wonderful company, but I must admit I'm kind of worried about their current direction. I wish they'd stop spending time on all of this repackaging of old (and growing older) libraries, and head off in a new direction. It really reminds me of record labels re-releashing their catalogs on cassette and then CD.



I don't think that it needs so much time to add (fake) reverb to the samples. Maybe they keep a part of their team busy while doing other things?
Maybe they need money quick, because SyStrings has not been sold as good as they thought? 

It is strange: No replies to the critiques concerning SyStrings...
And the SyPercussion customers are waiting for over a year for the promised player...

The next step is that people might talking about VSL running out of (sample)business (which I hope, won't occur)...


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## wbacer (Sep 4, 2018)

Appassionata Synchronized Strings are out now with an upgrade price of $110.51 USD for current owners of Appassionata Strings and Synchron Strings I.


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## muk (Sep 4, 2018)

When, for the same price, you can currently buy Hollywood Strings Gold it doesn't make this rehash any more attractive in my opinion.


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## BeneJ (Sep 4, 2018)

When Tonehammer split into 8Dio and SoundIron, they separated their existing property like a divorce.
8Dio took their old content and re-packaged with new interface designs, which abandon the trendy skeuomorphic GUIs of the earlier Kontakt era, replacing them with plain but utilitarian .NKIs.

As a result, 8Dio seem to have breathed new life into their old samples, which may otherwise have been dismissed. VSL are perhaps hoping to benefit from the same upcycling of resources

I want VSL to hurry up release the Syncron Taikos


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 4, 2018)

wbacer said:


> Appassionata Synchronized Strings are out now with an upgrade price of $110.51 USD for current owners of Appassionata Strings and Synchron Strings I.



I did upgrade my VSL Chamber strings. I'm REALLY not excited to do this with all of my VSL content. $110.51 is a lot to spend to get the same samples with some IR verb slathered on.

Frankly, I wouldn't bother except for the fact that I anticipate that VSL will drop Vienna Instruments Pro support at some point, and then I won't be able to use the samples I bought anymore.


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## muziksculp (Sep 4, 2018)

VSL is wasting their time with their Synchronizing of older libraries.

What's the point of doing this, if we can just use MIR Sycnron Stage to give them a Synchron Spatial Treatment using the original Libraries (i.e. Appassionata Strings) ?

They should fix or re-develop Synchron Strings I, and move forward with more Strings recorded in Synchron Stage. Also Synchron Brass, and Woodwinds. I'm also surprised they still have not released their Synchron Perc. Player. What the %$*@ are they doing ?


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 4, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> I did upgrade my VSL Chamber strings. I'm REALLY not excited to do this with all of my VSL content. $110.51 is a lot to spend to get the same samples with some IR verb slathered on.
> 
> Frankly, I wouldn't bother except for the fact that I anticipate that VSL will drop Vienna Instruments Pro support at some point, and then I won't be able to use the samples I bought anymore.



I really do not think VSL will drop ViPro as a product or support. I also highly doubt that the original libraries will ever be dropped. They still charge an arm and a leg for it and they would slash the price on it and try to roll it out to the masses way before they would drop it altogether. Also, there are many people, myself included, that would prefer to work with the dry libraries and MirPro.

I do not think any of the Syncron stuff is the "same samples" with some IR verb slathered on either. My understanding is that they resampled actual instruments in the Synron hall, with the natural reverberation of the environment baked into the samples. That is how most other competing products are done and VSL has had much criticism levied against them based on the fact that their libraries are dry and require an audio engineer to work with MirPro to make them sound good. I personally like this aspect, but many people do not, you can read many such people on this forum. Thus, they decided to release something new that is taking that same approach to satisfy those potential users.


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## richhickey (Sep 4, 2018)

Dewdman42 said:


> I do not think any of the Syncron stuff is the "same samples" with some IR verb slathered on either.



The Synchron-ized libraries are the old samples (some never released?) with IR verb.


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 4, 2018)

Dewdman42 said:


> I do not think any of the Syncron stuff is the "same samples" with some IR verb slathered on either. My understanding is that they resampled actual instruments in the Synron hall, with the natural reverberation of the environment baked into the samples.



That's not my understanding, but the fact there is confusion of basically What It Even Is says a lot, don't you think?

It took me weeks to get my head around what on earth the idea was. Even now it makes no sense to me, but I think I understand What It Even Is. I think. And if I do, I think its worse than using the original samples and MIR. One of the great strengths of the original products was their legatos were superb, arguably never bettered, in no small part due to the silent stage. If you shove a load of reverb over the samples, you then lose that effortless-sounding legato and get the same difficult smeary transitions that all the ambient libraries have. Crazybonkers.

I mean maybe I still don't understand What It Even Is. And that itself is damning. And not just for me.

Personally I'd have far rather seen them plough more R&D into a MIR 2, really advance the science of space emulation. Figure out what you need to do to a dry close mic to have it end up as sounding like a Decca Tree.


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 4, 2018)

Dewdman42 said:


> I do not think any of the Syncron stuff is the "same samples" with some IR verb slathered on either. My understanding is that they resampled actual instruments in the Synron hall, with the natural reverberation of the environment baked into the samples. That is how most other competing products are done and VSL has had much criticism levied against them based on the fact that their libraries are dry and require an audio engineer to work with MirPro to make them sound good. I personally like this aspect, but many people do not, you can read many such people on this forum. Thus, they decided to release something new that is taking that same approach to satisfy those potential users.



No, they are not newly sampled instrument sounds in the Synchron hall. That's why VSL is referring to these libraries as being "SYNCHRON-ized."

Here's exactly what they say...

"We’re very excited to announce the release of SYNCHRON-ized Appassionata Strings, the re-edited and overhauled version of our successful Appassionata Strings I Collection, powered by our new Vienna Synchron Player."

So, you are, in fact, getting the same product with the IR reverb added in at a predetermined amount. IR reverb, not real reverb recorded in the space.


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## ptram (Sep 4, 2018)

wbacer said:


> How about a discount for existing owners of Appassionata Strings, any word on that?


When going to the SynApp page, I see my price is 40% of the full introductory price. Maybe it is becauße I have the old App Strings.

Paolo


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 4, 2018)

I could get them for around 100 bucks. But what for? Eventually a MIRx synchron venue is going to be released, which I can use not just with my Appassionata Strings, but also all other VSL libraries I own. Why should I buy SynApp strings instead of just getting the (cheaper!) MIRx venue when it comes out?


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## Mikay (Sep 4, 2018)

I think the synchronized versions are a great idea, but I also think that the people who have the original versions are NOT the target group!

The target group are the people who already live in "wet-land", those who stayed away from VSL because it required too much effort. It's cool that you get MIR convolution reverb out of the box (you have samples for several positions) but you also get the dry versions as well (HOWEVER, therefore you need to turn the algorithmic reverb to _-inf_ and must click the _bypass button_ in the convolution reverb option. I'm not sure whether everyone got that).

Honestly, I believe they read all the posts on their forum and these posts make their hearts bleed. One thing must be kept in mind right now: they made HUGE investments and probably need money to pay their bills. All in all I find their idea extremely good. Hollywood productions use samples in addition to their recordings. So it's an argument to use the Synchron Stage for recordings, because it blends perfectly with the samples. This gives the producers a certain flexibility. On the other hand, this means that if they are successful in defining the sound of Hollywood, we get the Hollywood sound too.


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## ptram (Sep 4, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> What's the point of doing this, if we can just use MIR Sycnron Stage to give them a Synchron Spatial Treatment using the original Libraries (i.e. Appassionata Strings) ?


I've been using sampled orchestras for the latest 32 years. Yet, I still have troubles getting a good mix. I guess many users could be happier by just composing, and having the orchestra already mixed by itself. I'll continue to do my mix, but I’m very pedantic anyway.

Paolo


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## muziksculp (Sep 4, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I could get them for around 100 bucks. But what for? Eventually a MIRx synchron venue is going to be released, which I can use not just with my Appassionata Strings, but also all other VSL libraries I own. Why should I buy SynApp strings instead of just getting the (cheaper!) MIRx venue when it comes out?



Same here, I have Appssionata Strings, also Synchron Stirngs I, and MIR Pro with multiple venues, including the Synchron Stage. So my cost for App. Strings I is 95. Euros, but I have no need, or desire for a Synchronized Appas. Strings. even at this low price. I might have been interested if they released a new, enhanced articulation Appassionata Strings recorded in Synchron Stage. But that's a different story.


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 4, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I could get them for around 100 bucks. But what for? Eventually a MIRx synchron venue is going to be released, which I can use not just with my Appassionata Strings, but also all other VSL libraries I own. Why should I buy SynApp strings instead of just getting the (cheaper!) MIRx venue when it comes out?



And even if the Synchron Stage sound is a very nice sound, is it enormously better than the other zillion reverb options we have available that we can add as we please (as they added the Synchron IR sound)?

I get the idea of organically capturing the real sound with real players in the room, but I don't get this after-the-fact, post-production permanent addition of reverb. Has any other company releasing large real instrument libraries like this ever done such a thing?


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## muziksculp (Sep 4, 2018)

ptram said:


> I've been using sampled orchestras for the latest 32 years. Yet, I still have troubles getting a good mix. I guess many users could be happier by just composing, and having the orchestra already mixed by itself. I'll continue to do my mix, but I’m very pedantic anyway.
> 
> Paolo



I got their Synchroized-Chamber Strings, and I still have to treat it with Reverb, and other DSP treatments, so just Synchronizing a library, does not make it great sounding out of the box for me.


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## richhickey (Sep 4, 2018)

Mikay said:


> It's cool that you get MIR convolution reverb out of the box (you have samples for several positions) but you also get the dry versions as well (HOWEVER, therefore you need to turn the algorithmic reverb to _-inf_ and must click the _bypass button_ in the convolution reverb option. I'm not sure whether everyone got that).



Except you don't. I did exactly that (turned off all verbs) when I first got Synchron-ized Chamber Strings, and put the SynCS up against original CS, dry vs dry. The SynCS samples have blurred attacks and overall phasiness when compared to the original samples. Whatever processing they have done has really muddied them up. They are no substitute for the originals.

No one, even beginners, is better served by Synchronized libraries over buying the originals and e.g. Teldex MIRx. And if VSL wanted to make things easier they could just include a single MIRx room with VIPro. This is a branding exercise gone awry.


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## StatKsn (Sep 4, 2018)

What makes me even more baffled about Synchron-ized libraries is that, by the descripton it is a set of IR + mixing presets for each section, but you have to pay twice (or thrice or even more if they keep chugging on) for what I believe is essentially the same IR for both Appassionata and Chamber. Why would you want to pay for the same add-on preset for more than once?

If I bought an IR verb and told that you need to purchase a separate license for each library I own, I would be jumping off the cliff.


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## jamwerks (Sep 4, 2018)

When the Synchron pack came out for MIR Pro, I remember VSL saying here that they wouldn't be doing a MIRx of Synchron. Now I understand why with these new versions.

I wonder if Appassionata has been re-edited in any way. For the Chamber Strings I think they even rechopped some of the samples?

One advantage of MIRx over these rebaked versions is that inside VIP you can vary the level of the MIRx er's. I use Teldex MIRx with their Woodwinds and I'm pretty happy!


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 4, 2018)

Mikay said:


> I think the synchronized versions are a great idea, but I also think that the people who have the original versions are NOT the target group!



Well, that's fine, AS LONG AS they're planning on supporting the Vienna Instruments Pro version for as long as they plan to support the Synchron player version. VSL has discontinued earlier versions of their products in the past.

And, if the target audience really is new buyers who don't already own these libraries, the new versions of these products should be a lot less expensive for people that already own them. When companies like Spectrasonics, 8Dio, SonicCouture, etc. put out new, extensively revised versions of their products, the upgrade fees have been in the neighborhood of $0 - $30. $100 is too much for an update that's not going to let you do anything very different from what you already can do (besides not worry that you'll be stranded with a product that will no longer be supported at some point).


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## artomatic (Sep 4, 2018)

jamwerks said:


> When the Synchron pack came out for MIR Pro, I remember VSL saying here that they wouldn't be doing a MIRx of Synchron. Now I understand why with these new versions.
> 
> I wonder if Appassionata has been re-edited in any way. For the Chamber Strings I think they even rechopped some of the samples?
> 
> One advantage of MIRx over these rebaked versions is that inside VIP you can vary the level of the MIRx er's. I use Teldex MIRx with their Woodwinds and I'm pretty happy!




I wonder how valuable their enhanced articulations are. I do love the original but wouldn't mind having an improved version.
From their product page:

*Enhanced Articulations*
In addition to the previously existing articulations of Appassionata Strings, our editors added non-vibrato sustains, legatos and portamentos for more versatile and flexible expressive options. The team even managed to improve the already great sounding legato transitions. What’s more, new sustains with very soft attacks allow for especially gentle beginnings of notes. The volume levels of all articulations were completely overhauled and provide perfectly balanced levels not only among the ensembles themselves, but also in interaction with Synchron Strings I and SYNCHRON-ized Chamber Strings.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 4, 2018)

jamwerks said:


> When the Synchron pack came out for MIR Pro, I remember VSL saying here that they wouldn't be doing a MIRx of Synchron. Now I understand why with these new versions.



Good point, but Dietz said he was working on it and made some mistakes (?). I'm still wondering why it hasn't been released yet. I'm still looking forward to it.


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## jamwerks (Sep 4, 2018)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Good point, but Dietz said he was working on it and made some mistakes (?). I'm still wondering why it hasn't been released yet. I'm still looking forward to it.


I remember him saying that he hadn't had time, but I understand that now to mean that he couldn't give away company secrets.


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## muziksculp (Sep 4, 2018)

richhickey said:


> The SynCS samples have blurred attacks and overall phasiness when compared to the original samples. Whatever processing they have done has really muddied them up. They are no substitute for the originals.
> 
> No one, even beginners, is better served by Synchronized libraries over buying the originals and e.g. Teldex MIRx. And if VSL wanted to make things easier they could just include a single MIRx room with VIPro. This is a branding exercise gone awry.



+1


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## Dietz (Sep 4, 2018)

jamwerks said:


> I remember him saying that he hadn't had time, but I understand that now to mean that he couldn't give away company secrets.



No company secrets at all, I've documented the whole issue in VSL's own forum.

The long story short (just to avoid the propagations urban legends): I've been working for more than a month already on the two new MIRx preset collections for Synchron Stage. This means listening to the same two minutes sequence of notes over and over again, to create the roughly 1000 hand-tuned settings which will fit together and make sense. - The first of these sets was more or less finished, the second one was already in the making.

This was the point when I realized that a bug in the in-house tools I'm using for this task rendered most of the results useless as I was actually hearing other parameter settings than the ones I've been saving ...  (... mind you: I'm the only user of these software tools, so sh*t like that can happen. :-P ...)

Thing is that I'm neither employed by nor working full-time for VSL. I started all over again in early summer, but right now I have to meet other obligations as a free-lancing mixing engineer and music producer --- apart from the fact that it needs a _lot_ of mental stability too listen to nothing than this testing sequence for days and weeks without getting mad ...  ...

BTW: The "synchronized" Vienna Instruments are based on similar settings like the ones I create for MIRx, but in that case we need just a few of them, of course.

Kind regards,


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 4, 2018)

Dietz said:


> Thing is that I'm neither employed by nor working full-time for VSL. I started all over again in early summer, but right now I have to meet other obligations as a free-lancing mixing engineer and music producer --- apart from the fact that it needs a _lot_ of mental stability too listen to nothing than this testing sequence for days and weeks without getting mad ...  ...



Didn't know that, thought you were a full-time employee. Good to know. I can understand that, BUT it would have been a great decision to have MirX settings since the release of Synchron Strings. I know, not your decision. 

Thanks for your feedback.


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 4, 2018)

BTW, it's interesting to stop and consider how long the VSL Appassionata Library has been around, now. I've had it since the very beginning. Anyone remember how it was introduced? The Appassionata violins came out first, and were a free download for VSL Pro Edition owners who upgraded to using the (then) new Vienna Instruments plug-in (library owners were previously running VSL in GigaStudio, Logic EXS-24, or Kontakt). Remember how we had to use the additional VSL Performance Tool for legato playing with the original library? Seems like ancient history now. Anyway, the VSL Appassionata Violins originally came out in 2006, so it was a dozen years ago. 

From a sheer value standpoint, I really do wonder if the re-release of Appassionata is a good deal for new purchasers. The current introductory price for an new purchase is $438. Contrast that with, for instance, the new Spitfire Studio Strings at an introductory price of $199 for basic, or $399 for pro version (this is for a brand new product recorded with the latest technology that was three years in the making). Appassionata is 27.3 Gb of data, vs. 210.6Gb of data for the pro version of Spitfire Studio Strings. That's a pretty big difference in sample content. 

Also, remember that with the VSL Appassionata strings, the con sord. samples are a separate product (and not part of the same library as in the case of Spitfire libraries). Perhaps a SYNCHRON-ized version of those will be released at a later date, but it'll be another package to buy or update.

Certainly, a person can still get valid musical results from Appassionata, but there's been a lot of development and maturing of the industry in the past 12 years (especially considering that the sessions for Appassionata would be even older than that).


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## artomatic (Sep 4, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> BTW, it's interesting to stop and consider how long the VSL Appassionata Library has been around, now. I've had it since the very beginning. Anyone remember how it was introduced? The Appassionata violins came out first, and were a free download for VSL Pro Edition owners who upgraded to using the (then) new Vienna Instruments plug-in (library owners were previously running VSL in GigaStudio, Logic EXS-24, or Kontakt). Remember how we had to use the additional VSL Performance Tool for legato playing with the original library? Seems like ancient history now. Anyway, the VSL Appassionata Violins originally came out in 2006, so it was a dozen years ago.
> 
> From a sheer value standpoint, I really do wonder if the re-release of Appassionata is a good deal for new purchasers. The current introductory price for an new purchase is $438. Contrast that with, for instance, the new Spitfire Studio Strings at an introductory price of $199 for basic, or $399 for pro version (this is for a brand new product recorded with the latest technology that was three years in the making). Appassionata is 27.3 Gb of data, vs. 210.6Gb of data for the pro version of Spitfire Studio Strings. That's a pretty big difference in sample content.
> 
> ...




To me, it still sounds great today. I still use it on projects and still love the lush, Hollywood sound it possesses.


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## Dewdman42 (Sep 5, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> No, they are not newly sampled instrument sounds in the Synchron hall. That's why VSL is referring to these libraries as being "SYNCHRON-ized."
> 
> Here's exactly what they say...
> 
> ...



Thanks for the clarification I wasn’t paying attention. Didn’t realize they were doing this. I can’t see any reason to get it myself having both the original library as well as mir pro. I’m curious about the synchron player and workflow involved with it, but not curious enough to spend the money they want. I do still think some new vsl users may opt to buy this instead of appasionata+mirx.


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 5, 2018)

Thanks for the update Dietz. If it were me, I'd take your coming MIRx impulses and call that Sychronized. Job done, and I'd be willing to bet done better.


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## edgar_hsu (Sep 5, 2018)

I have listened to the new demos. The synchronized version sounds nice. I don't think it is so bad. MIR and VIs are very powerful tools. However, it also needs more optimization (and time) to make it sounds good. I will get synchronized version if I have a budget. Spitfire is cool but it is another story...


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 6, 2018)

edgar_hsu said:


> I have listened to the new demos. The synchronized version sounds nice. I don't think it is so bad. MIR and VIs are very powerful tools. However, it also needs more optimization (and time) to make it sounds good. I will get synchronized version if I have a budget. Spitfire is cool but it is another story...



Definitely, they are very different products and one or the other might be more appropriate depending on the sound you seek. I was using that as an example to contrast relative value (2018 library vs. 2006 library, and amount of content).


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## Casiquire (Sep 6, 2018)

VSL instruments don't age the same way other developers' libraries do. Just because App is twelve years old really doesn't mean new libraries are necessarily better.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 6, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> VSL instruments don't age the same way other developers' libraries do. Just because App is twelve years old really doesn't mean new libraries are necessarily better.


That's true, but there could be some "improvements" in the programming. Other developers has been showing new approaches to legatos etc. But VSL legatos are still great (some exceptions included). The same for LASS, old but gold.


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 6, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> VSL instruments don't age the same way other developers' libraries do. Just because App is twelve years old really doesn't mean new libraries are necessarily better.



Well, that would be open for debate. My point, though, would be if you took the team of VSL developers that did that library 12+ years ago (and the new people at VSL who have been mentored by the original people), gave them a "fresh piece of paper," and set them loose to do a similar product from scratch *BUT* incorporating EVERYTHING they've learned in the past 12+ years (and some serious advances in technology during that time period - including the acquisition and modernization of the Synchron Stage studio), I think it would be a much better product. The new Synchron CFX piano is a good example, in my mind. I think it's much, much better than any of the pianos VSL released previously, by a large factor. Converter technology is also better today than the turn of the century technology they would have used over a decade ago.

The Appassionata library, though, is what it is. If it has the sound you want, that's what matters. For that matter, I'm sure there are people out there who really like recently constructed libraries using sounds from old Mellotron tapes that were made many years ago.

I guess the thought that depresses me most regarding VSL's current re-releases is whether or not that plan to do this with EVERY library they have in their inventory, and also (importantly, for me) if this eventually means that Vienna Instrument Pro support will be dropped in the future (making it necessary to upgrade everything you own to the new, Synchron player version, if you want to keep having access to your sounds with the latest OS and DAW software). If that's the case, people who own every library VSL has out (like me), are going to need to be paying for an awful LOT of $100+ upgrades. And, keep in mind how many of these libraries are two-part affairs (there's the normal Appassionata Library, and then the muted version, which has yet to be converted). That's going to be a lot of money spent to have all your old libraries drenched with Synchron verb and repackaged. I'd rather leave the old libraries in their current (good) state, and spend money on newly recorded libraries from VSL in their Synchron Stage facility incorporating everything they've learned about making libraries to date. Adding reverb to my old, dry VSL libraries is not rocket science. I've been doing that for years.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 6, 2018)

I gotta say, VSL probably has some of the best "aged" libraries in the business. Several of them are still in a state where I honestly don't see what else they would need. The Woodwinds are the best example. I think that to this day nobody ever released better sampled woodwinds. Their solo brass is still just great. This is in part because they sampled instruments - as they are - and not certain types of "sound". This makes them timeless.


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## jamwerks (Sep 6, 2018)

MIRx would be so much better imo. It's really necessary to have full control over the wet/dry settings!


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 6, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I gotta say, VSL probably has some of the best "aged" libraries in the business. Several of them are still in a state where I honestly don't see what else they would need. The Woodwinds are the best example. I think that to this day nobody ever released better sampled woodwinds. Their solo brass is still just great. This is in part because they sampled instruments - as they are - and not certain types of "sound". This makes them timeless.



Some of the woodwinds are often my go-to choices. I really like Flute I, the Oboes, English horn, and Bassoon I (when I need a playful sounding bassoon, there's something about VSL Bassoon I that gives me something I don't get out of a lot of other bassoon libraries). Those libraries are very playable, and it's easy to make them work (OTOH, I never warmed up to the clarinets).

What they don't have for me, though, is modern day air and transparency (not thinking of room or reverb here). And, I just have to wonder if that isn't because they were recorded with no quite dated A/D technology. Some of the early libraries were probably recorded with digital gear from the nineties.

Again, I own pretty much everything VSL has put out (and bought a lot of it back when it was really expensive). VSL was really on the cutting edge. They were releasing products that had challenging CPU requirements back when computers that most of us owned were just barely capable of running the stuff. At one time, I was using two Mac towers and four rack-mounted PCs to get stuff done (my computer room sounded like a machine shop).

VSL had a very specific vision with their libraries. They wanted a neutral, uncolored sound with very little room, so it could be made into anything you wanted it to be with MIR and their plug-ins (and MIR was also conceptualized when there was barely enough computer power to make it work, especially in real time). There was a very complete and well-thought-out plan to the way they were doing everything. It was unified. I was impressed, and that's why I bought it.

And I guess that's part of why this new direction is rubbing me the wrong way (especially if I'm going to eventually have to shell out a lot of money to keep my old content active). Seems to me that leaving everything as it is and adding a Synchron MIRx would do the trick (that would allow it to blend easily with new Synchron libraries). Put any new effort into new products with fresh recordings using the latest digital technology. To go back and revisit all those old products and try to force them into being something they ideologically were never intended to be seems defeating. Let the old products have their dignity and legacy, and move on with different products in a new direction.

If there's any place where VSL has misjudged the marketplace over the years, it may be that they've overestimated the amount of versatility and options that people want to have. The capabilities of MIR are staggering, but overwhelming to most people. When you can take an instrument, position it anywhere on a stage, add different IRs, point it anywhere you want, process it in a ton of different ways, etc., etc., etc. ... Where do you even start? It kind of leaves me paralyzed. I kind of felt the same way about the new, true/actual Synchron libraries with all the various and esoteric surround schemes. How many people actually work that way? 

The sample library biz really seems to be a pretty fickle market, and it's heating up and becoming more competitive. Time will tell, and I could be completely wrong, but I think VSL is taking the wrong path with this SYNCHRON-izing.


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## muziksculp (Sep 6, 2018)

VSL as a developer would do us, and themselves a big favor by re-developing the weak parts of their Synchron Strings I Library, and continue to go forward with developing additional Synchron Recorded Strings, Brass, and Woodwind libraries. I don't see the need, or the urgency to provide Synchronized Older Libraries at this time. They really don't make sense to me.


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## jamwerks (Sep 6, 2018)

Synchronized Appassionata & Chamber to me mean no totally new libraries too similar to those will be out in the next 2-3 years. I can't imagine them not soon putting out though a new either WW or Brass library!


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## muziksculp (Sep 6, 2018)

jamwerks said:


> Synchronized Appassionata & Chamber to me mean no totally new libraries too similar to those will be out in the next 2-3 years. I can't imagine them not soon putting out though a new either WW or Brass library!



The way they are going at it, they might continue this silly trend of Synchronizing their old Woodwinds, and Brass, it is much easier, and cheaper for them than re-developing new Synchron Libraries. As I said earlier, they need to re-develop/fix Synchron Strings I, but I doubt that will ever happen.


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## Ric4001 (Sep 6, 2018)

richhickey said:


> Except you don't. I did exactly that (turned off all verbs) when I first got Synchron-ized Chamber Strings, and put the SynCS up against original CS, dry vs dry. The SynCS samples have blurred attacks and overall phasiness when compared to the original samples. Whatever processing they have done has really muddied them up. They are no substitute for the originals.
> 
> No one, even beginners, is better served by Synchronized libraries over buying the originals and e.g. Teldex MIRx. And if VSL wanted to make things easier they could just include a single MIRx room with VIPro. This is a branding exercise gone awry.


Based on this post, am I correct that you can turn off all of the reverb in these Synchronized libraries and get them back to the dry samples? The Synchronized Appassionata appeals to me because of the new sustain/legato non-vibrato articulations, so although I prefer dry samples, I'm inclined to buy the Synchronized version if I can disable the reverb.


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## EgM (Sep 6, 2018)

Ric4001 said:


> Based on this post, am I correct that you can turn off all of the reverb in these Synchronized libraries and get them back to the dry samples? The Synchronized Appassionata appeals to me because of the new sustain/legato non-vibrato articulations, so although I prefer dry samples, I'm inclined to buy the Synchronized version if I can disable the reverb.



According to people here, the samples aren't exactly the same as the classic VI full libraries, some mention phase issues, lack of articulations compared to the VI version, etc.

I don't own any of the Synchron libraries though and it doesn't interest me since I got into the whole ecosystem because it was recorded dry.


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## Guy Bacos (Sep 6, 2018)

Ric4001 said:


> Based on this post, am I correct that you can turn off all of the reverb in these Synchronized libraries and get them back to the dry samples? The Synchronized Appassionata appeals to me because of the new sustain/legato non-vibrato articulations, so although I prefer dry samples, I'm inclined to buy the Synchronized version if I can disable the reverb.



The dry/wet basic setting is between 28% and 38%, depending on the instrument, but you can bring it down to 0% if you want.


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## Dietz (Sep 7, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> [...] quite dated A/D technology. Some of the early libraries were probably recorded with digital gear from the nineties.



I don't want to involve myself too much into this, but from an audio-engineering-POV I would rather record with the early-2000-something Weiss Audio ADC used for many famous VSL instrument recordings than with most of the recent offerings on the market.


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## arcy (Sep 7, 2018)

VSL longevity is based on a well-recorded raw/dry samples, a low CPU usage and a beautiful, light and powerful player (VI-PRO). I'm still using VSL because I have only one machine and, as I said, it's very light on CPU. And I can buy instruments a-la-carte (if I need of only one flute or a trumpets ensemble or a celesta, I can buy them separately without spent 1000$ on a the super-massive-epic-collection).
But...Synchron-strategy doesn't convince me at all...now a new buyer can choose:
1) or an old dry samples,
2) or a new wet one.

I hope that "synchron" is only a series (like Dimension for example) and no THE FUTURE of VSL and I hope that new dry modern samples (not only for classical but for "hollywood" and epic music too) with a fresh new player will release in the future...


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## dhowarthmusic (Sep 7, 2018)

Has anyone here actually upgraded to the new Synchronized Appassionata Strings and can give their opinion on the improvements on the new programming of the old samples?


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## Casiquire (Sep 7, 2018)

I didn't realize that the wet/dry was adjustable in the Synchron-ized libraries, that makes it even more strange. It's practically MIRx with fewer articulations


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 11, 2018)

dhowarthmusic said:


> Has anyone here actually upgraded to the new Synchronized Appassionata Strings and can give their opinion on the improvements on the new programming of the old samples?


I'm also interested, especially the legatos. Maybe someone can post a short example or comparison?


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## Lee Blaske (Sep 11, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> I didn't realize that the wet/dry was adjustable in the Synchron-ized libraries, that makes it even more strange. It's practically MIRx with fewer articulations



Also, minus the iPad app for control (something I use constantly with Vienna Instrument Pro).


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## Ashermusic (Sep 12, 2018)

I am not a VSL guy so I find the Synchron approach encouraging. You can add verb to their old libraries as people have done but you cannot add life to them, which is what I find lacking. They attempted to achieve perfection at the price of sterility. 

Perfection is boring. Give me flawed but interesting instead.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 12, 2018)

Okay, I finally decided to buy the synchron-ized Appassionata Strings... 

My verdict: Awesome! Enhanced legato (I never liked the original ones), enhanced vibrato. And the EQ is exactly my "hollywood" taste. Perfect (!) companion to LASS. No EQ-matching needed. VSL did a great job! 

But I've have to say that I'm missing the humanize features of VI Pro. Especially for faster passages and runs where I could make (subtle) intonation blurs. Pity also that the "slur" patches from the original one are not available, they also helped for runs. And, of course, where are the con sordinos?

But again: I never thought it, but I really, really like this re-editing. I'm angry now that I didn't buy the Chamber Strings for the reduced price.


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## EgM (Sep 12, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> ...Perfection is boring. Give me flawed but interesting instead.



I usually start my songs using my VSL arsenal since it's very (too?) precise and then start adding 'flawed' instruments for human feel, so I really understand you on this :D

I end up keeping half of the VSL instruments in though


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## Casiquire (Sep 12, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> I am not a VSL guy so I find the Synchron approach encouraging. You can add verb to their old libraries as people have done but you cannot add life to them, which is what I find lacking. They attempted to achieve perfection at the price of sterility.
> 
> Perfection is boring. Give me flawed but interesting instead.



I feel you, I think their strings suffer the most from this but their woods and brass have character. I love VSL but the only strings I can use from them are Dimension since they're easy to add grit to, add I layer them with LASS which has some distinct imperfections. Appassionata do sound great in the Synchron hall though. I just want a reason to go that route versus just getting the Synchron roompack.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 12, 2018)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Okay, I finally decided to buy the synchron-ized Appassionata Strings...
> 
> My verdict: Awesome! Enhanced legato (I never liked the original ones), enhanced vibrato. And the EQ is exactly my "hollywood" taste. Perfect (!) companion to LASS. No EQ-matching needed. VSL did a great job!



Well that's interesting. Does it actually sound "different" from the original Appassionata? What's different about the legato?


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 13, 2018)

My opinion on the legatos: I always increase the release slider in VI Pro to make the legatos smoother, and then the old ones are nearly identical to the new ones. Maybe it's imagination, but I like the new ones better, they sound a bit different.

For me, even the "strong" vibrato patches sound stronger than the old ones, which I really like. 

The EQ preset and the convolution module helps also in the sound. Of course, you can say that you can achieve it with MIR Pro, I tried it, I can't achieve the same sonic impression (maybe due to my lacking mixing skills). Still waiting for the MIRx presets for Synchron Stage, hoping they will be released soon. I also think, but don't know, that besides the EQ there is some re-mastering applied. Playing chords or polyphonic legato with new ones sound "clearer" or "modern", with old ones more "darker" or "vintage". Just my impression! I prefer the new ones.

It's always a matter of taste... Try it yourself! If you don't like it, you can return the product, that's the good point. I followed the same thinking. At the moment, I'm happy and will not return it.


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## jamwerks (Sep 13, 2018)

A little OT but…

If they do indeed do a Synchron MirX pack, I hope they use traditional seating for the woodwinds. For some reason, in the Teldex pack, the Oboes are on the left and Clarinets are on the right. It that maybe an Austrian tradition that I don't know about?


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 14, 2018)

If anyone decided to give this library a try, please say something, I'm interested to hear other opinions.


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## stargazer (Sep 14, 2018)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> If anyone decided to give this library a try, please say something, I'm interested to hear other opinions.



I bought it. First impressions is that I prefer the original Appassionata Strings - more articulations and an unprocessed sound that I, so far, like better. Pros of the new version: No-vibrato-patches and smoother legato. (But I often like the old legato better in spite of its shortcomings). Since it is simplified compared to the original library it’s more intuitive to configure - you don’t have to spend days trying to figure out how to construct your matrices to best suit your needs. 
It’s also built to layer nicely with Synchron Strings and the Synchron-ized Chamber Strings.


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## EgM (Sep 14, 2018)

stargazer said:


> I bought it. First impressions is that I prefer the original Appassionata Strings - more articulations and an unprocessed sound that I, so far, like better. Pros of the new version: No-vibrato-patches and smoother legato. (But I often like the old legato better in spite of its shortcomings). Since it is simplified compared to the original library it’s more intuitive to configure - you don’t have to spend days trying to figure out how to construct your matrices to best suit your needs.
> It’s also built to layer nicely with Synchron Strings and the Synchron-ized Chamber Strings.



My personal opinion as an _AP Strings1 Full_ owner that loves them!, but:

The novib patches are most likely loops off the start of "sus_Vib_prog" patches (VI-20_sus_Vib-progr patch is only 88 samples at 2 velocity layers! It would be quite an easy task to resample those 176 samples), and everyone saying the legatos are better have probably never tried setting release to 80~85, which is what this probably does.

I'm pretty sure they didn't re-record Appassionata lately 

* Edit *

I had no idea these synchron'ed strings were so expensive at 445 euros..., _real_ AP Strings1 are 335e std and 590e extended.
Do yourself a favor and get the real ones  AND, I have to end this saying that the real ones are really worth getting!


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Sep 15, 2018)

EgM said:


> I had no idea these synchron'ed strings were so expensive at 445 euros..., _real_ AP Strings1 are 335e std and 590e extended.



Yes, at the first glance, no at the second, because with the new version you get a combination (!) of the original standard and extended library. This is important and often overlooked, I think. It's not clear when you look at the product page and the "sample content" information.

For example, "performance trills" you always get in the extended libraries. With this new version the "performance trills" are integrated in the fast legatos. Also the repetition patches, they are integrated in all relevant patches (spiccato, legato), so you don't need to switch to them like in VI (Pro). The same is also true for Synchron Strings. Also, you get more velocity layers for the legatos, which were only available in the old extended library.

I'm not missing any of the older articulations, because I never used them.

And, of course, you pay for the convolution module, a "small" MIRx version so to say. I have MIR Pro, but I think especially for new users it's the perfect choice. You don't need a separate reverb or MIRx.


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## Vadium (Oct 18, 2018)

I don't say about SY Appassionata, I am not own it, but can to say about synchronized VSL chamber strings. VIpro extended version spiccato has 8RR. Sy version - only 2. for additional 75 euro from extended Vi-version. WTF

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/vsl-chamber-cellos-vi-vs-sy-mp3.15843/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 18, 2018)

I found the SY Appassionata surprisingly good. I actually really like the new, modern tone curve. It really opens up the sound of those samples and almost sounds like a different library. Also that convolution module sounds great.


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## Tfis (Oct 19, 2018)

Where is the phasing in the first example coming from?


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## Vadium (Oct 19, 2018)

Tfis said:


> Where is the phasing in the first example coming from?


may be it's a work of RR algorihm and not true different samples?


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## al_net77 (Nov 1, 2018)

Maybe some new non-Synchronized VI is coming?

October 31, 2018
Vienna Instruments PRO 2.4.17181
• Added: License update for upcoming products


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## holywilly (Nov 1, 2018)

al_net77 said:


> Maybe some new non-Synchronized VI is coming?
> 
> October 31, 2018
> Vienna Instruments PRO 2.4.17181
> • Added: License update for upcoming products


That is very exciting!


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## Vadium (Nov 1, 2018)

Vadium said:


> Sy version - only 2



Hm, on VSL forum Paul wrote about undocumented feature for SY version of Chamber Strings: For achieve 8RR it must be minimal gaps between short notes. Otherwise it will be only 2 RR.


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## Ben (Nov 1, 2018)

Vadium said:


> Hm, on VSL forum Paul wrote about undocumented feature for SY version of Chamber Strings: For achieve 8RR it must be minimal gaps between short notes. Otherwise it will be only 2 RR.


With the old Cham Strings there are 2 patches: staccato and performance repetition staccato (same for other patches like spicc...). In the SY version these patches are combined: When playing slow (retrigger time) it playes the "normal" stacc samples, if fast it triggers the performance repetition ones.
I think there are some preset matrices in Vienna Instruments that are setup the same way.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Nov 1, 2018)

Vadium said:


> Hm, on VSL forum Paul wrote about undocumented feature for SY version of Chamber Strings: For achieve 8RR it must be minimal gaps between short notes. Otherwise it will be only 2 RR.



This is one of the things which is really annoying: the missing information.

Not only for the articulations, but also for the features (e. g. the amount of RRs) behind it. Especially new users would benefit from these information. I mean, they want to attract new users, for sure, but don't take the time to make a correct articulation/feature list on their website. These information are the key for the users' buying decisions. That the performance trills are integrated in the fast legatos is really great, but none of the new potential users know what a performace trill actually is.

I simpy don't understand why they don't take the time for it. They should, in my opinion. Also, they should make a walkthrough video, but I think it will never happen. It's just a missed oportunity.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 1, 2018)

EgM said:


> I usually start my songs using my VSL arsenal since it's very (too?) precise and then start adding 'flawed' instruments for human feel, so I really understand you on this :D
> 
> I end up keeping half of the VSL instruments in though




exactly how i work.

great description.

i'm still jonesing for SE Vol. 3 to get the 'starter' version of AppS - with consordino.


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## wcreed51 (Nov 2, 2018)

The Synchron Player 1.1.1295, posted today, now has humanization!


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## Vadium (Nov 2, 2018)

Dimension brass SY are released.

and, if you see on the picture, we are waiting for a power drums?


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## Casiquire (Nov 2, 2018)

Dimension Brass might be the first Synchron-Ized library that I actually think is a fantastic move. They can't record the Synchron Stage "sound" while also isolating the instruments, so this is a logical step and I imagine sounds great. If they do the same with Dimension Strings, I may be tempted.


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## Vadium (Nov 2, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> I imagine sounds great


As I think, they sounds just same as ViPro version + MIRx (or MIR) Synchron
If not take into account the addition of new articulations to ViPro version, the main convenience of the SY version for me is that I not need to create separate instances for positioning each player in the group in the MIR for playing by all group at once. For this reason, I'm waiting for the Sy-version of Dim Strings


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 2, 2018)




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## dhlkid (Nov 2, 2018)

Is that means no hope for Synchron Brass or woodwind in the future?


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## Vadium (Nov 2, 2018)

why? it is just different products


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## cadenzajon (Nov 2, 2018)

dhlkid said:


> Is that means no hope for Synchron Brass or woodwind in the future?



Yeah, I'm betting that we don't get Synchron Brass released in 2018. (Disappointing!)

I'm holding out for woodwinds, though...


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## jamwerks (Nov 2, 2018)

Well, I gave a listen to all the material on their site for the brass. I wanted to like it but have mixed feelings. They gave it a premium price, seems they have confidence in it. 

This probably means there will be Synchronized WW's also. Pretty sure I'll like those better. I'm thinking that their Silent Stage just wasn't that good for brass (or percussion). Too small for how those instruments activate the room.


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## Ben (Nov 2, 2018)

Is there a reason to buy the classic Dimension Brass instead of the Synchronized one?


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## Casiquire (Nov 2, 2018)

I'd predict winds are coming fairly soon


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## Lee Blaske (Nov 2, 2018)

Ben said:


> Is there a reason to buy the classic Dimension Brass instead of the Synchronized one?



I would be worried about buying the original Dimension Brass. VSL seems to be moving toward their new Synchron plug-in, so I would be worried that Vienna Instruments Pro support will be dropped at some point in the future.


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## Lee Blaske (Nov 2, 2018)

Regarding the new Synchron-ized Dimension Brass libraries, I must admit I'm not thrilled. Kind of starting to wonder if I like the Synchron studio sound much, at all (I own all the previous Synchron and Synchronized libraries). Seems we are being locked into less choice. And, we also now have less controllability (no iPad app for the Synchron plug-in, yet, and a lot of us relied on that).

The new Dimension Brass release rubs me the wrong way, too. Previously, there was only a "Standard" version, wasn't there? I own both the original Dimension Brass I and II libraries. So suddenly, there's now a new "Full" version of the old library that adds a few more articulations. The upgrade price differences are pretty dramatic. $41 per library to upgrade a "Full" library to the Synchron-ized version (but prior today, to my understanding, no one had the "Full" version, because there was only a standard version). To upgrade to Synchron-ized from the "Standard" version is $225 per library (and no option to upgrade an original Standard library to a Synchron Standard library for a nominal fee). So, they kind of got all of us previous owners over a barrel. So, for me, this would be a $450 upgrade, and really, all I'm getting is a few more articulations (which I don't know if I will use), and I'll lose the ability to have an iPad controller.

The only thing motivating me to do this cross grade is the concern that VSL will be dropping Vienna Instrument Pro support, since they're obviously intent to move toward the Synchron plug-in. I don't want to lose access to what I've already bought.

Also, shelling out this $450 for an upgrade doesn't mean I'm done with brass from VSL. VSL Dimension Brass is a nice library, but it is not a complete brass library with its "low brass" section played in octaves. There are times when you're not going to want that double.

Having been a loyal VSL customer for years, and having spent thousands and thousands of dollars, I am really not excited about what's happening at VSL these days, and these steep prices being charged to slather fake reverb on the samples we've previously purchased. VSL used to really be on the cutting edge, but they seem to have lost direction. They had been dormant for quite some time, and then we learned about the Synchron Studio acquisition, and that sparked hope for some new, ground-breaking content. But now, I kind of wonder why they wasted their money buying and refurbishing that studio. They could have rented a little time at that studio, taken the IR responses, and retreated to some other room to apply the convolution verb to their other libraries. No need to actually own that studio if they're not going to record new samples.


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## stargazer (Nov 3, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> The only thing motivating me to do this cross grade is the concern that VSL will be dropping Vienna Instrument Pro support, since they're obviously intent to move toward the Synchron plug-in. I don't want to lose access to what I've already bought.



I’m a bit worried too, about the future support of Vienna Instruments Pro.
I own a lot of those libraries and so far I’ve bought all the Synchron and Synchron-ized releases.
The latest one: (before the Synchron-ized Dimension Brass release, that is) Synchron-ized Appassionata Strings, I actually returned.
I just preferred the original Vienna Instruments Pro version.
No matter how much I want to keep supporting VSL, I just won’t pay for a crossgrade to, in my view, in some respects, an inferior product.
If, and when, VSL decides to drop support for Instruments Pro, it’ gonna be interesting to see if they make it attractive enough for their existing customers to migrate - taking into account that a lot of us already have started that process gradually by crossgrading to choosen Synchron-ized libraries.

A bit OT: There are sample libraries being released at an evergrowing pace, it seems, and I get the feeling that the big developers get more and more profit-driven.
Maybe that’s unavoidable…
At this point, I think a lot of the most interesting (and often quite niche) libraries/software are being released by smaller developers.


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## FabioA (Nov 3, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> Regarding the new Synchron-ized Dimension Brass libraries, I must admit I'm not thrilled. Kind of starting to wonder if I like the Synchron studio sound much, at all (I own all the previous Synchron and Synchronized libraries). Seems we are being locked into less choice. And, we also now have less controllability (no iPad app for the Synchron plug-in, yet, and a lot of us relied on that).
> 
> The new Dimension Brass release rubs me the wrong way, too. Previously, there was only a "Standard" version, wasn't there? I own both the original Dimension Brass I and II libraries. So suddenly, there's now a new "Full" version of the old library that adds a few more articulations. The upgrade price differences are pretty dramatic. $41 per library to upgrade a "Full" library to the Synchron-ized version (but prior today, to my understanding, no one had the "Full" version, because there was only a standard version). To upgrade to Synchron-ized from the "Standard" version is $225 per library (and no option to upgrade an original Standard library to a Synchron Standard library for a nominal fee). So, they kind of got all of us previous owners over a barrel. So, for me, this would be a $450 upgrade, and really, all I'm getting is a few more articulations (which I don't know if I will use), and I'll lose the ability to have an iPad controller.
> 
> ...




Dimension Brass is my favorite library from VSL; it's not perfect or complete, but so is any library. That said, 225$ to upgrade to the extended version, that has actually few more articulations (that's probably because the standard version had already much more articulations that, for example, Dimension Strings standard) it's a bit too much as you suggest. It's half the price of a complete brass library.

About Synchron Studios: they didn't buy it to record libraries, as you know. I think they bought it 95% for actual orchestral recordings!


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## Ben (Nov 3, 2018)

I could buy Dim Brass I + Crossgrade to SY version. So I would get the VI version with basic articulations + full SY version for same price as just the SY version.
I just don't know if I need this flexibility :D


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## Ihnoc (Nov 3, 2018)

I wasn't taken by Synchron and adding more VSL products to my list besides MirX Teldex (for the winds) until this Dimension Brass release. I own VSL SE complete and don't turn to the solo brass, especially when combining them together in sections. I'm not certain I'm hearing much difference with Dimension but maybe I need a reality check.

I've been eyeing Berlin Brass for the longest time. Can anyone speak for comparisons between Berlin and Dimension (Synchron or not) in terms of the 1 to many players per section concept, especially from a sound perspective? What I hear in Berlin is a richness, directness and width while Dimension feels like the stereo field is almost artificially small. Thoughts?


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## Vadium (Nov 3, 2018)

In my opinion, any brass library must to have not only close mic position. Because in mix it is very important to hear a brass located on the far side, not in front of all orchestra. Wet/dry balance between close mic and impulse reverb is not good way to do it. So, Dimension Brass (as any preSynchronAge VSL brass like SE) is not interested for me with only close mics.


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## C-Wave (Nov 3, 2018)

Vadium said:


> In my opinion, any brass library must to have not only close mic position. Because in mix it is very important to hear a brass located on the far side, not in front of all orchestra. Wet/dry balance between close mic and impulse reverb is not good way to do it. So, Dimension Brass (as any preSynchronAge VSL brass like SE) is not interested for me with only close mics.


where does it say only close mics? couldn’t find it.


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## Vadium (Nov 3, 2018)

C-Wave said:


> where does it say only close mics? couldn’t find it.


just listen a dry sound - it's quite close.. You couldn't find it, because all ViPro series recorded dry and close, as default - because it was a conception to record dry instruments for using them in MIR

To obtain a true mid and surround mic positions of Synchron studio for any ViPro library it needs re-record complete library from scratch, instead to just add an impulse reverb of Synchron studio, as it made in SY Player for synchronized ViPro libraries. You can see a pictures and to compare a count of mic positions between Synchron strings and Synchronized Chamber strings:


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## jamwerks (Nov 3, 2018)

I really like the sound of the Synchron stage in itself, but these Synchronized libraries have a strong sonic signature from where they were recorded, especially the brass and percussion. A real Synchron brass (new recordings in the hall, multi-mic'ed) will probably be fabulous.

Synchronized WW's might give better results. Producing lower sound levels, the sonic signature of the Silent Stage is considerably less. I do hope they synchronize all the WW instruments (something like 20-25 soloists plus 4 ensembles).


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Nov 3, 2018)

I really don't understand the direction they're going in these days. First it started out as the Synchron line - brand new libraries, multi mic setup, new player. OK. Makes sense.
Synchron Percussion comes out, turns out to be a very fine library, so expectations are high for the rest of the lineup.

And then it takes this really, really weird turn. Synchron Strings comes out as a surprisingly incomplete and flawed product, the uproar is huge ... and what does VSL do?
Instead of focusing real hard on delivering a Synchron Strings 2.0 that fixes everything that's wrong with the library, they take this absolutely weird turn and are now super-busy with doing all these sidegrades that no one ever asked for. The rest of the actual Synchron line never got released and seems all but abandoned.

So this is "Synchron" now? Overpriced rebranded versions of the same old stuff, crammed into a new player? Was all of that really worth it?

I just don't understand where they're headed with this.


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## jamwerks (Nov 3, 2018)

They're just monitizing there older recordings clearly. Very little investment (a little editing, no new recording) so it makes since from a business standpoint.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Nov 3, 2018)

That's certainly what it is, yes. It surprises me though that apparently it seems to pay off. To me all of this creates a diffuse image of of an unclear direction and looks as if they were dilluting and hawking off their own product line. Perception is reality, so I would have imagined that this kind of stuff would lead to a lot more customer uncertainty. But perhaps I'm wrong and they're right?


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## Saxer (Nov 3, 2018)

I think the main goal is to have a sample line that matches their recording studio. Mockups in the same room as the real recording later. Or hybrid tracks with half samples and half real recordings. The fastest way to accomplish that is to synchronize the existing libraries. Especially as it's not so easy to get a full new sample set in a new environment (as Synchron Strings shows).
But yes, it's simply too expensive if you already own the original libraries.


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## Vadium (Nov 3, 2018)

jamwerks said:


> They're just monitizing


Yes! probably it is why there is not a Synchron MIRx: if you buy it for 80$, you are own synchronized all ViPro libraries at once. But without it you must to buy synchronized version of each instrument/group 

Here is an observation after testing a released in September Expression-maps for Synchron Strings and all sorts of Synchronized strings: VSL made maps based on the Synchron strings. And apparently decided to unify these maps for all subsequent string libraries. Coming next synchronized Chambers match - it's possible to use same maps for them. That is, the word "Synchronized" makes sense not only in the context of Synchron Studio acoustics, but also in the "fitting" of one library to another. Downside: the articulations present in ViPro libraries, but missing in the basis Synchron strings (for example, harmonics or whatever) will not implemented in subsequent string libraries..


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## Ben (Nov 3, 2018)

Now that they have the film/game music industrie as customer it is important to have a complete ecosystem. I think they are working on real SY products, but something as Dimension Brass could not be done in this stage.

"probably it is why there is not a Synchron MIRx" => Synchron MIRx is in the doing as Dietz in the VSL forum wrote. But there was a bug and he has to redo everything.

"But yes, it's simply too expensive if you already own the original libraries." => 35€ is not that expensive...


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## Olfirf (Nov 3, 2018)

Since some time it looked to me as if VSL were in trouble. I don't know it for a fact, but this doesn't look like monetising. This looks like the desperate attempt to make some cash to me.


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## novaburst (Nov 3, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It surprises me though that apparently it seems to pay off.



Bingo


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## richhickey (Nov 3, 2018)

Ben said:


> Is there a reason to buy the classic Dimension Brass instead of the Synchronized one?


 
Yes, because (right now) for $39 (about 5%) more you can have both (i.e. buy both if you want either).


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## richhickey (Nov 3, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> So this is "Synchron" now? Overpriced rebranded versions of the same old stuff, crammed into a new player? Was all of that really worth it?
> 
> I just don't understand where they're headed with this.



I'm guessing they probably have a 2-pronged approach: They have a series of true Synchron libraries planned, and are synchronizing those VI libs for which there is no short-term plan, if ever, for Synchron (e.g. chambers, dimensions). There's really no sense in doing Dimensions in Synchron hall, it's a conflict of approaches (simultaneous playing with near mics leaves you nothing to use from the hall). Thus, I'd still hold out hope for not only Synchron woodwinds, but also (sectional if not solo) true Synchron brass. That is, if you buy into wet/Synchron. I'm not sold yet.

BUT, one good sign from this release is the addition of the remastered/new/found/whatever articulations for the VI version. This was a complaint for Synchronized chamber strings (new artics not added to VI) and it seems they have listened. If for instance they do synchronized dimension strings and similarly release new articulations for VI DS I'll be thrilled.


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## muziksculp (Nov 3, 2018)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I really don't understand the direction they're going in these days. First it started out as the Synchron line - brand new libraries, multi mic setup, new player. OK. Makes sense.
> Synchron Percussion comes out, turns out to be a very fine library, so expectations are high for the rest of the lineup.
> 
> And then it takes this really, really weird turn. Synchron Strings comes out as a surprisingly incomplete and flawed product, the uproar is huge ... and what does VSL do?
> ...



Yup, Same feeling here. 

VSL needs to develop their new, Synchron Line, not re-release older VI based libraries for Synrhon Player, maybe they can do this after they have their new Synchron Libraries released.


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## stigc56 (Nov 3, 2018)

I have just bought the update to synchron strings, in fact I bought the whole Synchron Package just 3 days ago, before Dimension Brass was synchronized. I think it's quite expensive for the Dimension Brass update. But I like the Synchron Player, and the possibility to scale the interface. I have a 4k monitor and really need this feature. I know it's a minor issue to many, but to me it counts. The VST expression maps they have published has errors in the cello and basses, I have uploaded my correctd versions to the forum (VSL).


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## Tfis (Nov 3, 2018)

I won't spend 200 bucks for a hand full of new articulations (where glissando is the only one that interests me) and I won't invest any money in the synchron series until their flagship (synchron strings) can compete with my € 99,00 Hollywood Strings Gold...

just my € 0,02


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## Casiquire (Nov 3, 2018)

The whole situation has me more and more nervous that they're porting the whole line over to Synchron.

Sad thing is, I actually really love the sound of Synchron Strings a lot. It just doesn't seem very usable in practice


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## Salorom (Nov 3, 2018)

I view this new 'expansion' -which basically amounts to 10 articulations- as yet another slap in the face of their customers. The price tag is simply not right in relation to the content that is offered.

Also, I suppose the new material was produced so as to blend properly with the remastered synchronized library. How will it blend with the original 8-year-old VI version?


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## Ben (Nov 3, 2018)

Salorom said:


> Also, I suppose the new material was produced so as to blend properly with the remastered synchronized library. How will it blend with the original 8-year-old VI version?


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## heisenberg (Nov 4, 2018)

For those trying to locate the humanize functionality, just put into Synchron Player version 1.1.1295, it is in the middle of the edit window.


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## Lee Blaske (Nov 10, 2018)

Well, I bit the bullet and updated my Dimension Brass I library to the SYNCHRON-ized version. Will probably update II, too, but debating whether I use muted sounds enough to justify it.

The new version, to me, doesn't seem that different. In a way, though, like all the products using the Synchron plug-in, I think the UI is more straightforward and intuitive. Maybe VSL felt they needed to do that. But, I REALLY miss the iPad app for controlling articulations, especially when it comes to playing brass. Brass seems to need more articulations than other instrument groups. And, when you need to use keyswitches that are not indicated with an NKS keyboard, there's a lot to keep track of. Also, I like to play tricky parts with my right hand and do the key switching with my left, but that would require reconfiguring the presets. The factory presets have the key switches for the lower instruments on the RH side, because that's where the unused notes are. It would sure be great to get back to an iPad app to control things.

As far as the sound goes, it's not too much different to my ears. I did misunderstand what the whole "SYNCHRON-ize" concept was for the older libraries before I got this. VSL is not mixing the Synchron stage reverb in with the actual samples (as far as I can tell). The plug-in is just adding Synchron convolution reverb after the fact, so you can have more or less. I would guess you could have done the same thing if there was a Synchron MIRx package. Other than that, doing an entire brass section with the presets as configured seems to lead to a mix that's weighted to the right. Of course, you can move the panning around. Maybe the idea is more to get an orchestral balance with other instrument libraries rather than to just have the Dimension Brass library functioning by itself.

One thing I haven't figured out yet is whether it's possible to have a combined preset where certain articulations (especially short/fast articulations) are dynamically controlled with velocity, whereas longer articulations (sustained notes, legatos) have dynamics/crossfading controlled with the modulation wheel. Seems like you have to decide to use one or the other within a single instrument instance. I find it hard to use velocity to control dynamics of long tones, because I often want to shape, and continue shaping a line after I play a note. Velocity is not great for doing that. But, I do like velocity for short notes. So right now, the solution seems to be to set up additional instances, and configure the control situation differently on different instances. One thing about the Dimension Brass samples... there is a pretty drastic difference between the soft level and the loud level sample sets. That makes them tricky to control (IMO) with velocity.

In general, for me, the library has the same pluses and minuses as the original version. I do like the sound. I wish the trumpet range was a little higher. As it is, some of the shorter articulations sound a little weaker and have less of a point on them as the notes get higher. Having the instruments recorded together is a good idea. From player to player, the articulations are pretty consistent. The low brass is still a bit of a problem for me (unless I resort to adding additional instruments from other libraries). The tuba is not particularly strong, and if you solo it, you do still hear a fair amount of the other instruments recorded above it. I really wish this library had a strong, solo tuba and perhaps euphonium. But, you can pull those in from other VSL libraries.

Here's a short, quickly thrown together demo I did to get acquainted with the Synchron updated library (I used the "wide" presets for all the Dimension Brass instruments, without any tweaking). The percussion is also all Synchron. (BTW, if anyone bought this library recently, they just updated the Synchron player software. The previous version was causing a lot of crashes. The new one seems stable.)

In the end, though, it's still a very useful library, and I'm sure I'll continue to use it a lot.


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## Ben (Nov 10, 2018)

@Lee Blaske: Thank you for your feedback. And your demo sounds amazing, too!
(still unsure if I should buy the VI or SY version xD)


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## stigc56 (Dec 1, 2018)

Hi Lee
Yes you can!
Have velocity controlled by cc xfade - long notes and shorts by velocity.
I asked the same, and here is the answer: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...er-articulation-in-Synchron-Player#post279199


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## Lee Blaske (Dec 1, 2018)

stigc56 said:


> Hi Lee
> Yes you can!
> Have velocity controlled by cc xfade - long notes and shorts by velocity.
> I asked the same, and here is the answer: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/pos...er-articulation-in-Synchron-Player#post279199



Thanks. I'll check that out. I believe I had that figured out in Vienna Instruments Pro.


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