# Orchestral Tools: Junkie XL Brass—new update for solo horn and horn sections available



## OrchestralTools

We are proud to announce that* Orchestral Tools* has teamed up with A-list Hollywood composer *Tom Holkenborg* to create an outstanding new brass library – *Junkie XL Brass*.

Revealed in January of this year at the Orchestral Tools special event at Paramount Studios in Los Angeles, Junkie XL Brass is now available for pre-order.







*Aimed at* *professional and non-professional music creator users alike*, Junkie XL Brass offers a full orchestral brass set-up in a single package, recorded with a highly consistent set of articulations for all instruments and sections. As with previous Orchestral Tools collections, Junkie XL Brass was recorded at the Teldex Scoring Stage in Berlin, a distinctively balanced 450 m² hall with sublime acoustics and the finest microphones from the last five decades.

Classic brass instruments – trumpets, French horns, trombones, cimbassi and a tuba – were sampled in many different section sizes to provide maximum depth and versatility, with a dynamic range going from whisper-quiet pianissimo to thunderously loud fortissimo, and including a total of 16 microphone positions.




*Exclusive Pre-Order Special Masterclass*
All Pre-order customers will receive an exclusive online „Junkie XL Brass Masterclass“ where Tom himself, live and in real time, will give a hands-on tutorial on how to get the most from this brass collection, as well as some special tips and tricks. Tom will show you how to use this unique tool to its full potential, helping you to take your compositions to that next level.

*Tom Holkenborg* is widely regarded as one of Hollywood’s most innovative film composers, a multi-billion box office presence, who fuses natural musicality with a mastery of cutting-edge studio techniques.
“I am a perfectionist in the studio, and was determined to bring that level of attention and detail to my first sample library,” said Holkenborg. “I want this pack to inspire my fellow composers, at whatever level they may be working, and give them access to the best possible product that I could make.”


*Junkie XL Brass - Highlights *

Product concept by Tom Holkenborg
Full orchestral brass setup
Trumpets - Horns - Trombones - Cimbassi - Tuba
Recorded solo and in different section sizes to provide maximum depth and versatility
Highly consistent set of articulations for all instruments
Smooth dynamic crossfading thanks to five recorded dynamic layers for each instrument
Dynamic range going from whisper-quiet pianissimo to thunderously loud fortissimo
16 microphone positions - unprocessed and production ready mixes by *Alan Meyerson*
Full brass patch for sketching ideas

*Mic Merging & Download Customization *
Junkie XL Brass offers a total of 16 microphone positions ranging from unprocessed to production-ready mixes by renowned movie scoring mixer *Alan Meyerson*. The highly innovative Mic Merging feature allows you to save on resources: simply create your custom mic mix and save it as a single position.
If your disk space is limited, you can customize your download by selecting the mic positions you need – alternatively, you can download them all and see which ones work best with your ideas.







*The Junkie XL Brass Pre-Order Special* will be available until the release of the collection, December 16. The normal price will be 749€ + VAT.

*Find all information about Junkie XL Brass on jxlbrass.com*


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## AdamKmusic

Oh boy...time to save some money!


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## ridgero

Will it be a HZ like Brass Library everyone has waited for? I hope so ;D


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## valexnerfarious

If they migrate away from Kontakt they are making the same big mistake as Spitfire and will definitely hurt them...


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## ridgero

valexnerfarious said:


> If they migrate away from Kontakt they are making the same big mistake as Spitfire and will definitely hurt them...



OT already said they will keep offering a version of all libraries for Kontakt too.

Besides the unique features of their new sampler. OT is offering you to buy single instruments from any Library they have, so basically you can build your own personal library without buying unnecessary instruments you don't even need. Thats not possible with Kontakt, they needed to create their own ecosystem.

So its not really comparable with the move from Spitfire with HZ Strings (e.g.)


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## zimm83

ridgero said:


> Will it be a HZ like Brass Library everyone has waited for? I hope so ;D


+1


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## dogdad

Really looking forward to seeing more! Sounds awesome!


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## jamwerks

Audiobro Modern scoring brass price probably just came down a bit. Berlin Brass has some strong points but seems they know how to do better. It'll be interesting to see what JunkieXL Brass sounds like.

JunkieXL was probably just planning on paying them several hundred thousand to do him a private library and they decided on this route. With their new player (that undoubtedly costs a lot, around $3M I'd say), the investment by Tom was probably welcome!


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## Parsifal666

Well, this makes my wallet happy, I won't be tempted to spend on yet another, superfluous (for me) library.

Okay I lied, I'm still saving for Berlin Woodwinds lol!


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## Fry777

At least we know about the presence of 5 dynamic layers in the trombone patch


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## MartinH.

jamwerks said:


> With their new player (that undoubtedly costs a lot, around $3M I'd say)



Based on what? How many people for how many years do you think worked fulltime on this?


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## jamwerks

Just speculation, probably 3-5 people for 3-4 years.


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## SillyMidOn

I counted 12 trombones at 1.26 of the video ... hm.


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## bryla

it also says a12 on the sheet


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## richardt4520

Parsifal666 said:


> Okay I lied, I'm still saving for Berlin Woodwinds lol!


The one sale I opted out of in 2018 that I regret! Hopefully they'll do it again this year and I won't be so foolish this time


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## robgb

jamwerks said:


> that undoubtedly costs a lot, around $3M I'd say


Whoa. I can't imagine it would cost that much, but I know zero about development costs. If so, they need to make that back somehow, which likely means exorbitant prices will continue indefinitely.


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## Parsifal666

richardt4520 said:


> The one sale I opted out of in 2018 that I regret! Hopefully they'll do it again this year and I won't be so foolish this time



That's happened to me before too, my friend. Just hang in there for the next!


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## Karl Feuerstake

No bass trombones, tuba, cimbassi? :(


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## Nicola74

I really would like to know more, that's REALLY interesting, but I am also waiting for Audiobro brass library, so...


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## erica-grace

jamwerks said:


> (that undoubtedly costs a lot, around $3M I'd say),



Jeez - no way.


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## erica-grace

Fry777 said:


> At least we know about the presence of 5 dynamic layers in the trombone patch



How do you know that's from the recording session? Where'd the pic come from?

I mean, I hope it IS from the session.


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## ProfoundSilence

why are people surprised it would cost 3m+ to make this library?

hire 40 top level anythings, pay them hourly, pay to rent an extremely coveted location for months(or years) pay for some top notch technicians to not only be there while you hire the other 40 top notchers, but also dealing with it after. Then pay people to painstakingly, mind numbingly, but accurately deal with a very repetitive task, and produce results in an organized way so that someone else can figure out how to make a usable product out of them. 

It's probably even more difficult to get these excellent musicians to agree to such a process like sampling something... You could imagine, if I asked you to sit in a room perfectly still, and do the same thing, exactly the same way a bunch of times, now make it slightly different, and do that a bunch of times - and I did this as a full time job for months with you - you'd go insane. 

especially if you're used to playing new and interesting music. 

"any cool soundtracks you work on since thanksgiving?"
"nope, just recording every note 9872398723 times"


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## Saxer

Quite misleading preview in the browser page...


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## erica-grace

ProfoundSilence said:


> why are people surprised it would cost 3m+ to make this library?



First, jamworks was saying that he thought the _player alone_ costs 3M:



> With their new player (that undoubtedly costs a lot, around $3M I'd say),




As for the library itself

Libraries simply dont cost that much to make. I am not saying they dont cost a lot, but they dont cost in the millions. I have no idea where this was recorded, but take Teldex for ex., where OT records frequently. Any idea how much it costs to record there? About 5k Euros for the day (two sessions). Just for the studio (incl personnel). The musicians are 300 Euros for the day, each, with section leaders getting double. The conductor is about 1k per day.

So, to record 10 musicians simultaneously for a week, that will run you - I am doing quick math here - about 46k Euros. Less musicians will of course be a little less; more musicians will be a bit more.

Now, how much material do you think they can record in an entire week? They do complete Hollywood scores in less time than that.

Now, you of course have to add on other costs - paying people to cut samples and build Kontakt patches (if you, the owners dont do that), you have to spend money on marketing, a trip to NAMM, maybe you do a test session or two.

So, while these libraries are not cheap, they aren't in the millions. Think for a moment - do you know how long you'd have to record for, to spend a million dollars? Go and figure out how much time your sample library is. Let me know if you need some help figuring it out.


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## MartinH.

ProfoundSilence said:


> why are people surprised it would cost 3m+ to make this library?
> 
> hire 40 top level anythings...



I thought the 3 million was only estimated for the player software without any sample content. And personally I think 40 engineers on something like that is insane. Much more efficient to employ fewer developers for longer. If you really assume years of fulltime development and R&D on a multi-person team maybe 3m is not too far off, I don't know. Just as a sample player that would seem waaay excessive to me, but if they also made a scripting environment like Kontakt offers I could see it taking years (longer than planned). But IF it really costs 3m, I don't see how they are gonna recoup that cost because there are people who have settled on kontakt-based workflows and who won't (be able to) just switch to their new player. I'd _love _to know the detailed reasons behind their decision.


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## Fry777

erica-grace said:


> How do you know that's from the recording session? Where'd the pic come from?
> 
> I mean, I hope it IS from the session.



It's from the trailer... And as someone else pointed out, at 1m26s you can see a dozen Trombone players too.
I also see at least 10 horn players in the video at some point, possibly more...


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## Parsifal666

Saxer said:


> Quite misleading preview in the browser page...



Thank you. I would have been more interested in HZ brass...or practically anyone but his partner, who imo he could have done without.

There are so many great brass libraries out there....


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## Geoff Grace

Best,

Geoff


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## valexnerfarious

From what I heard from the Namm interview yesterday Junkie made it sound like there will not be a Kontakt version of the library....Is that accurate?


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## Jdiggity1

valexnerfarious said:


> From what I heard from the Namm interview yesterday Junkie made it sound like there will not be a Kontakt version of the library....Is that accurate?


I was right in front of him and I didn't get that impression. The OT team said at their keynote that their future libraries will still be available for kontakt, as well as their new player.


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## muziksculp

Jdiggity1 said:


> I was right in front of him and I didn't get that impression. The OT team said at their keynote that their future libraries will still be available for kontakt, as well as their new player.



Hmmm.. But why would they bother with Kontakt, and it's licensing fees, when they have their own sample engine ? 

Actually, I don't recall them saying they will be releasing their future/new libraries in Kontakt.


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## Mike Fox

erica-grace said:


> First, jamworks was saying that he thought the _player alone_ costs 3M:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the library itself
> 
> Libraries simply dont cost that much to make. I am not saying they dont cost a lot, but they dont cost in the millions. I have no idea where this was recorded, but take Teldex for ex., where OT records frequently. Any idea how much it costs to record there? About 5k Euros for the day (two sessions). Just for the studio (incl personnel). The musicians are 300 Euros for the day, each, with section leaders getting double. The conductor is about 1k per day.
> 
> So, to record 10 musicians simultaneously for a week, that will run you - I am doing quick math here - about 46k Euros. Less musicians will of course be a little less; more musicians will be a bit more.
> 
> Now, how much material do you think they can record in an entire week? They do complete Hollywood scores in less time than that.
> 
> Now, you of course have to add on other costs - paying people to cut samples and build Kontakt patches (if you, the owners dont do that), you have to spend money on marketing, a trip to NAMM, maybe you do a test session or two.
> 
> So, while these libraries are not cheap, they aren't in the millions. Think for a moment - do you know how long you'd have to record for, to spend a million dollars? Go and figure out how much time your sample library is. Let me know if you need some help figuring it out.


I could be dead wrong here, but I think I recall Doug Rogers saying that it cost 1 million to make Hollywood Strings.

PS. Don't quote me on that.


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## Karl Feuerstake

muziksculp said:


> Hmmm.. But why would they bother with Kontakt, and it's licensing fees, when they have their own sample engine ?
> 
> Actually, I don't recall them saying they will be releasing their future/new libraries in Kontakt.



There's no license fee to libraries that are external, rather than the ones that show up with the fancy icon and need a serial key activation. This is because the external ones accesed via file browser require the user to own full version of kontakt; money in NI's pocket.


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## robgb

ProfoundSilence said:


> why are people surprised it would cost 3m+ to make this library?


Probably because several small developers are creating amazing libraries without all the overhead. Unless that three million actually SHOWS in the final product, it isn't worth it.


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## erica-grace

Mike Fox said:


> I could be dead wrong here, but I think I recall Doug Rogers saying that it cost 1 million to make Hollywood Strings.
> 
> PS. Don't quote me on that.



He did say that. I remember.

I cry BS. There is no hall/studio expense (he owns it), no equipment expense (he owns everything). So he has to pay his employees, Shawn Murphy, and the musicians. There are other costs, maybe, but think about how much he is paying the musicians (you can get a quote), and how much time it takes to record (you can get an estimate by looking at the library size)

No way it costs 1M


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## robgb

Karl Feuerstake said:


> require the user to own full version of kontakt; money in NI's pocket.


And well worth every single penny.


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## Zhao Shen

I'm extremely excited for this library. I'll say that I'm not a huge fan of Tom's music. But after hearing the interview, you begin to understand why this should deserve hype.

Tom has extensive experience not only working with live brass players, but programming with samples. That's why it's really reassuring listening to the interview, because he mentions so many different issues that he has with the current libraries on the market, and so many things that he always wants to do that existing libraries struggle with. When you think about his situation, he's someone who sketches out his tracks first, but who also always eventually gets them recorded live. So his goal is to represent the live performance as accurately as he can, and that means that his mind is always in the right place for developing this VST.


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## valexnerfarious

My concern is that OT are doing the Spitfire thing with not lets say making the EW Choir for Kontakt as well as their own sampler..I just want to know if there will be a Kontakt version of JXl Brass


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## jbuhler

valexnerfarious said:


> My concern is that OT are doing the Spitfire thing with not lets say making the EW Choir for Kontakt as well as their own sampler..I just want to know if there will be a Kontakt version of JXl Brass


I would guess there will not be a Kontakt version of JXL Brass, but who knows. I also get the sense that the major concern is copy protection, not licensing fees, though it's not clear to me why specialized samplers would have such an advantage in this respect. Maybe it's just that they know what the copy protection flaws of Kontakt are and that there is no way to address them without working through Native Instruments and on NI's schedule.


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## muziksculp

The new OT Sample Engine is supposed to do things that Kontakt can't do, especially the Legato functionality, so I doubt OT will bother offering an NI version of their upcoming libraries, also why bother with the extra labor, and cost to port things to Kontakt again. Makes no sense to me.


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## ProfoundSilence

erica-grace said:


> He did say that. I remember.
> 
> I cry BS. There is no hall/studio expense (he owns it), no equipment expense (he owns everything). So he has to pay his employees, Shawn Murphy, and the musicians. There are other costs, maybe, but think about how much he is paying the musicians (you can get a quote), and how much time it takes to record (you can get an estimate by looking at the library size)
> 
> No way it costs 1M



Not trying to be rude, but do you know how opportunity cost works?

months NOT booking sessions = that much money less. 

if you normally make 30,000$ a month from booking fees, and you don't take any bookings for 4 months, that's 120,000$ "something you own" cost you. 

when you book LSO for months when they could have been performing/tracking for much more - you're paying them opportunity cost. 

and robg, many of these smaller companies also sample way less actual content, using a more or less budget/local orchestra - in a room that nobody really cares about(note that none of these particularly keep something from sounding good, but you're not paying for notoriety at all).

they are budget for a reason, and when you show me these companies booking the top of the line venues and charging next to nothing - let me know.


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## fretti

Well he decided to not take "120k" but instead invest money for a product which is supposed to ultimately get him more money back than those "120k"


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## robgb

muziksculp said:


> The new OT Sample Engine is supposed to do things that Kontakt can't do, especially the Legato functionality, so I doubt OT will bother offering an NI version of their upcoming libraries, also why bother with the extra labor, and cost to port things to Kontakt again. Makes no sense to me.


I'm pretty sure I heard one of them say in the video that if you prefer Kontakt, Kontakt versions will be available.


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## muziksculp

robgb said:


> I'm pretty sure I heard one of them say in the video that if you prefer Kontakt, Kontakt versions will be available.



I will wait and see if that happens, but I wouldn't choose Kontakt, even if it is an option, once their new Sample Player version is available.


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## erica-grace

ProfoundSilence said:


> months NOT booking sessions = that much money less.



Wait - what... MONTHS? Seriously??? No way.

Look, I dont want to clog up this thread; that's not fair to OT, and the rest of the people around here looking to read and talk about the JXLOTBL - which I am looking forward to.

If you want to discuss this further, start another thread


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## ProfoundSilence

erica-grace said:


> Wait - what... MONTHS? Seriously??? No way.
> 
> Look, I dont want to clog up this thread; that's not fair to OT, and the rest of the people around here looking to read and talk about the JXLOTBL - which I am looking forward to.
> 
> If you want to discuss this further, start another thread



we can tell from the snippets we've seen, for instance - that they appear to be recording 4 modular section sizes per instrument(solo, a3, a6, a12) recording every note multiple times, at multiple dynamics, with multiple articulations, and multiple interval legato transitions(possibly multiple transition types as well)

I fear you are criminally underestimating how much sample material is actually being recorded. considering budget just to TRACK a film score *can* cost a million, I have a hard time imagining recording every note on (12?) different instruments multiple times from just about every angle they can hit is going to take less time than recording the score to a film. Granted he's not hiring a 100+ piece orchestra, he's still hiring 36-40 brass players, and will need them in the studio a heck of a lot longer than it takes to score a film. 

you might not think it's important information to understand, but at the very least - we're seeing a brass library that will have comparable content to berlin brass - which means the price tag will likely be along the berlin series, rather than the ark series(which has generally less sampled content) Understanding the cost is a good indicator of price we can expect. And based on the way junkie speaks about the library, I'm guessing it might end up having more content than berlin(I would imagine more variations, less round robins)


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## valexnerfarious

muziksculp said:


> I will wait and see if that happens, but I wouldn't choose Kontakt, even if it is an option, once their new Sample Player version is available.


I think that having your own dedicated sampler and not offering Kontakt versions alienates people who like Kontakt and hurts your business and ill explain why.Im not saying all but most people dont have time or desire to learn a new sampler because number 1 it really disrupts workflow,And the second is that as history told that they are not as dependable and as solid as Kontakt.Kontakt has its minor issues but nothing as bad as the PLAY engine.I talk to alot of people and i thinks its fair to say if youre gonna have a new sampler and want to try to do more than what NI can offer in their player atleast offer a version of that library on a platform the vast majority of people use and not force them to use a sampler..If its not broke why fix it?


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## robgb

valexnerfarious said:


> I talk to alot of people and i thinks its fair to say if youre gonna have a new sampler and want to try to do more than what NI can offer in their player atleast offer a version of that library on a platform the vast majority of people use and not force them to use a sampler..If its not broke why fix it?


Kontakt is a sampler. EW's Player is a Rompler. And it's looks like OT's new player is a Rompler as well. The reason most people like Kontakt (the full version) is because it's a true sampler that allows you to do things no rompler will ever allow.


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## Geoff Grace

Personally, I'm motivated to learn new technology if it adds realism or improves my sound. I'll reserve judgment until the product is released.

Best,

Geoff


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## KEM

Is this still coming this year?


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## mikeh-375

12 bones..why? Write well for 2 tenors, a bass and a tuba, it'll be in proportion to a full size symphony orchestra and still pack a punch. Jeeez everybody thinks they are Berlioz these days.... 
(like I say to the left here, I'm old school..)


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## KEM

I think about this library pretty much every day, I'm craving more info ugh!!


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## Consona

Same here, it's basically the only library I'm interested in right now. I've got everything covered except for very playable brass which is something I hope this delivers (I haven't bought CSB just because I'm waiting how this turns out).

Plus I hope it will be distributed via the new a la carte system OT are planning to have within their player. Mainly because I don't need and want to pay for some 12 whatever patches, just need a nice consistently playable trumpet and horn section (and maybe trombones ). And of course who knows, if the product is great, I'll buy more instruments.

I think J XL and OT won't deliver some half-assed, pardon my French, product. So I can't wait for some new info and possibly videos or something. 🤤
The original post says "coming later this year", hope that's right, it's just about 3 months to go.  (Is their new player ready, or is this a Kontakt library?)


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## Akarin

Let's bet: which one comes out first? JXL Brass or CSW?


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## jaketanner

valexnerfarious said:


> I think that having your own dedicated sampler and not offering Kontakt versions alienates people who like Kontakt and hurts your business and ill explain why.Im not saying all but most people dont have time or desire to learn a new sampler because number 1 it really disrupts workflow,And the second is that as history told that they are not as dependable and as solid as Kontakt.Kontakt has its minor issues but nothing as bad as the PLAY engine.I talk to alot of people and i thinks its fair to say if youre gonna have a new sampler and want to try to do more than what NI can offer in their player atleast offer a version of that library on a platform the vast majority of people use and not force them to use a sampler..If its not broke why fix it?


I believe it has nothing to so with Kontakt at all..developers are making the switch because I think they're tired of paying the NI licensing fees. Without those fees, it seems that they can ultimately charge less money for their product as well. This is my take on it...because unless the new GUI outshines Kontakt or allows you to do things you can't do within Kontakt, there really is no other reason to change that I can see...But I'm not a developer...just looking at this from the outside.


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## Drundfunk

Hi hate you guys soo much! How can you bump this for no reason at all?! (Yeah I'm aware of the irony. Thank you). Brass is the only instrument I'd actually buy right now. MSB didn't really intrigue me, so I still have some brass money left


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## jaketanner

My thoughts are that JXLB is geared more for epic music. So may not be good for your only library...it's like an add-on. Hope I am wrong here...still looking for that great brass library myself.


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## Drundfunk

jaketanner said:


> My thoughts are that JXLB is geared more for epic music. So may not be good for your only library...it's like an add-on. Hope I am wrong here...still looking for that great brass library myself.


That's actually exactly the reason I'm looking forward to this . I already own some good brass libraries, but there is always something missing for me, so still intrigued xD


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## jaketanner

Drundfunk said:


> That's actually exactly the reason I'm looking forward to this . I already own some good brass libraries, but there is always something missing for me, so still intrigued xD


which ones you own?


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## KEM

jaketanner said:


> My thoughts are that JXLB is geared more for epic music. So may not be good for your only library...it's like an add-on. Hope I am wrong here...still looking for that great brass library myself.



In the keynote and Q&A Junkie said he really wanted this to be for everyone, from epic composers to EDM artists and beat makers alike, he really wants everyone to get something out of this library, that's why each instrument has vastly different section sizes, so I think (and hope!) this library will do just that. If there's anyone I really trust it's JXL, nobody cares more about sampling than him!!


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## jaketanner

KEM said:


> In the keynote and Q&A Junkie said he really wanted this to be for everyone, from epic composers to EDM artists and beat makers alike, he really wants everyone to get something out of this library, that's why each instrument has vastly different section sizes, so I think (and hope!) this library will do just that. If there's anyone I really trust it's JXL, nobody cares more about sampling than him!!


Cool. Then maybe I should wait until released but if it’s with OT, I’m sure it will be out of budget for most of us.


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## KEM

jaketanner said:


> Cool. Then maybe I should wait until released but if it’s with OT, I’m sure it will be out of budget for most of us.



True, but at this point I’m not even concerned about the price so long as the product is really good. I wouldn’t even blink if it’s over $1k I’m still buying it haha


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## Consona

jaketanner said:


> Cool. Then maybe I should wait until released but if it’s with OT, I’m sure it will be out of budget for most of us.


Yea, that's why I hope it comes via the a la carte system. Neither I have money for a whole OT product, nor want some epic or EDM patches.


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## brenneisen

Consona said:


> I hope it comes via the a la carte system



It won't since it's a capsule-kontakt library


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## Rctec

erica-grace said:


> First, jamworks was saying that he thought the _player alone_ costs 3M:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the library itself
> 
> Libraries simply dont cost that much to make. I am not saying they dont cost a lot, but they dont cost in the millions. I have no idea where this was recorded, but take Teldex for ex., where OT records frequently. Any idea how much it costs to record there? About 5k Euros for the day (two sessions). Just for the studio (incl personnel). The musicians are 300 Euros for the day, each, with section leaders getting double. The conductor is about 1k per day.
> 
> So, to record 10 musicians simultaneously for a week, that will run you - I am doing quick math here - about 46k Euros. Less musicians will of course be a little less; more musicians will be a bit more.
> 
> Now, how much material do you think they can record in an entire week? They do complete Hollywood scores in less time than that.
> 
> Now, you of course have to add on other costs - paying people to cut samples and build Kontakt patches (if you, the owners dont do that), you have to spend money on marketing, a trip to NAMM, maybe you do a test session or two.
> 
> So, while these libraries are not cheap, they aren't in the millions. Think for a moment - do you know how long you'd have to record for, to spend a million dollars? Go and figure out how much time your sample library is. Let me know if you need some help figuring it out.


Actually, you are quite wrong. With just my personal library we are close to $2 million by now. Including constantly adding and maintaining the technology.
It’s not about recording complete scores, it’s - for instance recording ppp on a large string section. It’s hard to keep that focused and took us two weeks at AIR.


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## LudovicVDP

Man I thought it was out when I saw this post popping up !
I'm broke. So that would have been terrible


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## Consona

brenneisen said:


> It won't since it's a capsule-kontakt library


Oh $#!+... So yeah, it's gonna cost like €1k , which is way above my league.

Maybe in time they'll convert it to their new player?


----------



## SoNowWhat?

Pure speculation but maybe if you want kontakt option it’s all or nothing or a la carte option available if you go for OT Player. No idea really and maybe OT would think this “unfair”. Or not.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

I'm so glad someone dropped some real numbers that reflect my own educated guesses. 

thanks hz for letting us know that even if you're one of the most relevant composers making the big bucks, you still spend $$$$$ on sample libraries XD 

everytime I see these people lowball estimates I assume they dont even realize what kind of hourly rate session musicians make.


----------



## OT_Tobias

brenneisen said:


> It won't since it's a capsule-kontakt library



Just popping in here real quick to say that this is NOT AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT BY OT!
We have not confirmed nor denied anywhere that JXL Brass is a Kontakt library or not.


----------



## jbuhler

Rctec said:


> Actually, you are quite wrong. With just my personal library we are close to $2 million by now. Including constantly adding and maintaining the technology.
> It’s not about recording complete scores, it’s - for instance recording ppp on a large string section. It’s hard to keep that focused and took us two weeks at AIR.


Given what I've heard about it, I'm a bit surprised here that production costs are only $2 million for the personal library.


----------



## jamwerks

jbuhler said:


> Given what I've heard about it, I'm a bit surprised here that production costs are only $2 million for the personal library.


Hans might mean 2M for all 4 orchestral sections? And that's just the samples, nothing to do with the plugin player...


----------



## Consona

OT_Tobias said:


> Just popping in here real quick to say that this is NOT AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT BY OT!
> We have not confirmed nor denied anywhere that JXL Brass is a Kontakt library or not.


----------



## KEM

Rctec said:


> Actually, you are quite wrong. With just my personal library we are close to $2 million by now. Including constantly adding and maintaining the technology.
> It’s not about recording complete scores, it’s - for instance recording ppp on a large string section. It’s hard to keep that focused and took us two weeks at AIR.



Hold on let me call my bank real quick and see if they’ll let me take out a $2 million loan, my credit should be good... haha


----------



## erica-grace

Rctec said:


> With just my personal library we are close to $2 million by now.



For how many GB?


----------



## brenneisen

OT_Tobias said:


> Just popping in here real quick to say that this is NOT AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT BY OT!
> We have not confirmed nor denied anywhere that JXL Brass is a Kontakt library or not.



It's not but you probably know about the unfortunate beta patches leaks...


----------



## KEM

brenneisen said:


> It's not but you probably know about the unfortunate beta patches leaks...



Wait what...?


----------



## Consona

brenneisen said:


> It's not but you probably know about the unfortunate beta patches leaks...


----------



## OT_Tobias

brenneisen said:


> It's not but you probably know about the unfortunate beta patches leaks...



I know what you are referring to and I can assure you those patches are NOT in any way, shape or form part of JXL Brass. They really are not.
Do not believe everything pirates tell you. According to them there's a Capsule 3 (there is not) and a version of The Orchestral Grands that is 30 GB or so^^. The patches you refer to are not part of JXL Brass.

As for Kontakt vs. Sampler:
In fact, I watched our keynote from January again and I think it is pretty clear in there that JXL Brass is announced to be very much NOT a Kontakt library.


----------



## KEM

OT_Tobias said:


> I know what you are referring to and I can assure you those patches are NOT in any way, shape or form part of JXL Brass. They really are not.
> 
> In fact, I watched our keynote from January again and I think it is pretty clear in there that JXL Brass is announced to be very much NOT a Kontakt library.



Awww, well regardless I’m still very excited! Is it still slated to release this year?


----------



## brenneisen

OT_Tobias said:


> Do not believe everything pirates tell you.



fortunately, I don't have ears to what they do but eyes; a peer sent me a JXL 12 horns screenshot, that's all I've experienced from them



OT_Tobias said:


> I know what you are referring to and I can assure you those patches are NOT in any way, shape or form part of JXL Brass. They really are not.



glad to hear they are not causing any real damage then


----------



## Daniel James

Really looking forward to whatever this ends up being. I'm still not fully sure what to expect but I am hoping its big and has bite 

-DJ


----------



## shawnsingh

Sadly, my wallet is now empty so I can only wait for the DJ video to enjoy vicariously...


----------



## Drundfunk

Daniel James said:


> Really looking forward to whatever this ends up being. I'm still not fully sure what to expect but I am hoping its big and has bite
> 
> -DJ


Apparently this won't be a Kontakt library tho, so not sure if it will fit your workflow. I hope you get a copy for a walkthrough. They are always helpful!


----------



## Daniel James

Drundfunk said:


> Apparently this won't be a Kontakt library tho, so not sure if it will fit your workflow. I hope you get a copy for a walkthrough. They are always helpful!



God dammit. I hope a Kontakt version is possible. If not I hope its just good enough that I want to load a new player everytime...although that hasnt happened with a custom player yet. We shall see.

-DJ


----------



## KEM

Daniel James said:


> God dammit. I hope a Kontakt version is possible. If not I hope its just good enough that I want to load a new player everytime...although that hasnt happened with a custom player yet. We shall see.
> 
> -DJ



Come on now, Daniel... I know you love the SF player don’t lie!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

that's awkward, if there's a pirate version of jxl and it isn't jxl, who's library is being pirated?? 

imagine getting news about a product because of a leak

well OT I'm glad it's not your library- if it is from your studio I hope you track down the rat leaking it. 

its absolutely heartbreaking that there are artists happy to steal from other artists... I have never made a dime off my music and I still pay for my hobby


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Daniel James said:


> God dammit. I hope a Kontakt version is possible. If not I hope its just good enough that I want to load a new player everytime...although that hasnt happened with a custom player yet. We shall see.
> 
> -DJ


normally I'd agree, but if it saves me ram from the mic mixdown feature then it's totally worth it for me


----------



## KEM

ProfoundSilence said:


> normally I'd agree, but if it saves me ram from the mic mixdown feature then it's totally worth it for me



That and I’m assuming it’ll allow routing each articulation to a different MIDI channel? That’s the only Kontakt feature I really want to have, if so I’m all for it cause the new features they showed off on their keynote were really cool.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

KEM said:


> That and I’m assuming it’ll allow routing each articulation to a different MIDI channel? That’s the only Kontakt feature I really want to have, if so I’m all for it cause the new features they showed off on their keynote were really cool.


cubase expression maps can do almost anything. 

similarly reaticulate in reaper is powerful. 

however Daniel uses cubase so /shrug if you're going to use different midi channels is no different than track per instrument in most ways


----------



## KEM

ProfoundSilence said:


> cubase expression maps can do almost anything.
> 
> similarly reaticulate in reaper is powerful.
> 
> however Daniel uses cubase so /shrug if you're going to use different midi channels is no different than track per instrument in most ways



True, did they say anything about vibrato crossfade with the new player? That's probably my favorite SF feature that OT doesn't currently have.


----------



## OT_Tobias

KEM said:


> True, did they say anything about vibrato crossfade with the new player? That's probably my favorite SF feature that OT doesn't currently have.



There is vibrato crossfade in the Multi Articulation patches, just not in the Single Articulation patches, which is indeed on purpose.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

KEM said:


> True, did they say anything about vibrato crossfade with the new player? That's probably my favorite SF feature that OT doesn't currently have.


??????????? my friend you do realize capsule can do a lot more than that? lol I can cross fade between entire instruments - let alone articulations. Not just crossfade vibrato, you can xy crossfade between sustain, trill, tremelo, vibrato - ect. 

I'm more worried they'll get rid of my ability to crossfade between completely different instances. As it stands I can combine all the berlin string expansions.

attached is an example where I used a 2d(XY) crossfade between sustain without vibrato, strong vibrato, romantic vibrato, and tremolo. 

as well as a berlin brass 3a(2tb+1btb) trombone sustain that crossfades into Ark 1's 3a bass trombones.

I can do this because you can use empty slots in the articulations. so that you can use different articulations from different multis(and thus from different libraries).


----------



## KEM

OT_Tobias said:


> There is vibrato crossfade in the Multi Articulation patches, just not in the Single Articulation patches, which is indeed on purpose.



Don’t know how I missed that haha, but now I’m happy!


----------



## KEM

ProfoundSilence said:


> ??????????? my friend you do realize capsule can do a lot more than that? lol I can cross fade between entire instruments - let alone articulations. Not just crossfade vibrato, you can xy crossfade between sustain, trill, tremelo, vibrato - ect.
> 
> I'm more worried they'll get rid of my ability to crossfade between completely different instances. As it stands I can combine all the berlin string expansions.
> 
> attached is an example where I used a 2d(XY) crossfade between sustain without vibrato, strong vibrato, romantic vibrato, and tremolo.
> 
> as well as a berlin brass 3a(2tb+1btb) trombone sustain that crossfades into Ark 1's 3a bass trombones.
> 
> I can do this because you can use empty slots in the articulations. so that you can use different articulations from different multis(and thus from different libraries).



Alright, I’m sold, I’m buying the Berlin series lol


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

ProfoundSilence said:


> as well as a berlin brass 3a(2tb+1btb) trombone sustain that crossfades into Ark 1's 3a bass trombones.


Oh that's a great idea ! And I'm going to steal it right now


----------



## ProfoundSilence

whitewasteland said:


> Oh that's a great idea ! And I'm going to steal it right now



works great with the 4 horn from BB > 9 horn from ark and the 3 trumpet > 4 trumpet from ark ect. 

it basically gives you lower dynamics on Ark, more than the other way around.


----------



## shawnsingh

ProfoundSilence said:


> I'm more worried they'll get rid of my ability to crossfade between completely different instances. As it stands I can combine all the berlin string expansions



Since you (I think it was you?) had explained this to me in another thread, I too hope this will be in the new player. But in worst case, I guess it's possible to create multiple instances that receive the same MIDI to achieve the same effect.


----------



## axb312

ProfoundSilence said:


> ??????????? my friend you do realize capsule can do a lot more than that? lol I can cross fade between entire instruments - let alone articulations. Not just crossfade vibrato, you can xy crossfade between sustain, trill, tremelo, vibrato - ect.
> 
> I'm more worried they'll get rid of my ability to crossfade between completely different instances. As it stands I can combine all the berlin string expansions.
> 
> attached is an example where I used a 2d(XY) crossfade between sustain without vibrato, strong vibrato, romantic vibrato, and tremolo.
> 
> as well as a berlin brass 3a(2tb+1btb) trombone sustain that crossfades into Ark 1's 3a bass trombones.
> 
> I can do this because you can use empty slots in the articulations. so that you can use different articulations from different multis(and thus from different libraries).



Can you please provide a picture demonstrating how to do this across libs? I'd like to crossfade ark 2 horns to ark 1 horns...


----------



## ProfoundSilence

shawnsingh said:


> Since you (I think it was you?) had explained this to me in another thread, I too hope this will be in the new player. But in worst case, I guess it's possible to create multiple instances that receive the same MIDI to achieve the same effect.


It was. I've mentioned it before.

abx im not at the daw anymore, but it's simple:

you set up 2 multis recieving the same midi messages, then stagger the articulations in the order you want to crossfade.

for instance: If you wanted to crossfade Ark2 and Ark1 sustains it would look like this

Ark 2 multi | … | Sus | … | … |… |… |… |… |… |
Ark 1 multi | Sus | … |… | … | … | … | … | … | 

then when you press keyswitch 1+2 itll look like this

Ark 2 [ … ][Sus]
Ark 1 [Sus][ … ]


----------



## Daniel James

ProfoundSilence said:


> cubase expression maps can do almost anything.
> 
> similarly reaticulate in reaper is powerful.
> 
> however Daniel uses cubase so /shrug if you're going to use different midi channels is no different than track per instrument in most ways



Its mostly multis I will miss. I like to set up and balance perfect entire sections for specific uses then recall them into other projects. Thats what I love about Kontakt's work flow, and dislike about the SF player.

I have an empty routed template that I can load instruments into as I need them. Its very modular in that way, it also means I can start projects on my portable rig and it works the exact way for writing and will port over perfectly. When you start introducing custom players for everything it makes it difficult to have a template that starts blank which is the way I personally work. There is of course no right answer for everyone, but I am entitled to my own opinion on the subject and will voice it for those who are in a similar situation!

-DJ


----------



## Drundfunk

I just want to know if this will be released before or after Black Friday. The suspense is killing me. Whoever bumped the thread one week ago, you shall be damned.


----------



## KEM

Drundfunk said:


> I just want to know if this will be released before or after Black Friday. The suspense is killing me. Whoever bumped the thread one week ago, you shall be damned.



Sorry haha, I’m just as anxious as you are trust me!!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

They should be a list of do not bump spreads


----------



## D Halgren

ProfoundSilence said:


> They should be a list of do not bump spreads


But without bumpin 'spreads' there would be no more children in the world


----------



## KEM

ProfoundSilence said:


> They should be a list of do not bump spreads



Well this library is supposed to drop this year so I think it’s important we get info about it and keep people talking about it, I for one would love to have more discussions about this library since it’s pretty much the only thing I want now


----------



## paularthur

is there any news on a release date?


----------



## Drundfunk

paularthur said:


> is there any news on a release date?


What are you doing!? Why would you bump this man! I just managed to get my mind off of it. Hello darkness my old friend.......


----------



## paularthur

Drundfunk said:


> What are you doing!? Why would you bump this man! I just managed to get my mind off of it. Hello darkness my old friend.......


lol sorry mate, I missed ark 1 sale hoping this was coming out right after.. =/


----------



## Mystic

I've been wondering if they will release this in November followed by Ark 5 in December. They did something similar last year, didn't they?


----------



## bvaughn0402

Beginning to wonder if it will ever release!


----------



## Leon Willett

will it have piccolo oboes? 8 in unison, in the back of the hall? 

it better have piccolo oboes


----------



## germancomponist

If someone reinvents the wheel, give him all the time he needs, because of course he wants to do it perfectly!


----------



## OrchestralTools

We are proud to announce that* Orchestral Tools* has teamed up with A-list Hollywood composer *Tom Holkenborg* to create an outstanding new brass library – *Junkie XL Brass*.

Revealed in January of this year at the Orchestral Tools special event at Paramount Studios in Los Angeles, Junkie XL Brass is now available for pre-order.







*Aimed at* *professional and non-professional music creator users alike*, Junkie XL Brass offers a full orchestral brass set-up in a single package, recorded with a highly consistent set of articulations for all instruments and sections. As with previous Orchestral Tools collections, Junkie XL Brass was recorded at the Teldex Scoring Stage in Berlin, a distinctively balanced 450 m² hall with sublime acoustics and the finest microphones from the last five decades.

Classic brass instruments – trumpets, French horns, trombones, cimbassi and a tuba – were sampled in many different section sizes to provide maximum depth and versatility, with a dynamic range going from whisper-quiet pianissimo to thunderously loud fortissimo, and including a total of 16 microphone positions.





*Exclusive Pre-Order Special Masterclass*
All Pre-order customers will receive an exclusive online „Junkie XL Brass Masterclass“ where Tom himself, live and in real time, will give a hands-on tutorial on how to get the most from this brass collection, as well as some special tips and tricks. Tom will show you how to use this unique tool to its full potential, helping you to take your compositions to that next level.

*Tom Holkenborg* is widely regarded as one of Hollywood’s most innovative film composers, a multi-billion box office presence, who fuses natural musicality with a mastery of cutting-edge studio techniques.
“I am a perfectionist in the studio, and was determined to bring that level of attention and detail to my first sample library,” said Holkenborg. “I want this pack to inspire my fellow composers, at whatever level they may be working, and give them access to the best possible product that I could make.”


*Junkie XL Brass - Highlights *

Product concept by Tom Holkenborg
Full orchestral brass setup
Trumpets - Horns - Trombones - Cimbassi - Tuba
Recorded solo and in different section sizes to provide maximum depth and versatility
Highly consistent set of articulations for all instruments
Smooth dynamic crossfading thanks to five recorded dynamic layers for each instrument
Dynamic range going from whisper-quiet pianissimo to thunderously loud fortissimo
16 microphone positions - unprocessed and production ready mixes by *Alan Meyerson*
Full brass patch for sketching ideas

*Mic Merging & Download Customization *
Junkie XL Brass offers a total of 16 microphone positions ranging from unprocessed to production-ready mixes by renowned movie scoring mixer *Alan Meyerson*. The highly innovative Mic Merging feature allows you to save on resources: simply create your custom mic mix and save it as a single position.
If your disk space is limited, you can customize your download by selecting the mic positions you need – alternatively, you can download them all and see which ones work best with your ideas.







*The Junkie XL Brass Pre-Order Special* will be available until the release of the collection, December 16. The normal price will be 749€ + VAT.

*Find all information about Junkie XL Brass on jxlbrass.com*


----------



## Øivind

5 dynamic layers?! whooweee


----------



## KEM

PREORDERED


----------



## Eptesicus

Will you be releasing thorough playthroughs and walkthroughs and many varied demos?

I'm not preordering unless this is the case.

I'm not making the same mistake as i did with Synchron. Lots of promise and flashy marketing for a throughly dissapoitning end result...


----------



## star.keys

Great news!

Question: Until when will the pre-order price last and when can we expect some demos/walkthrough videos please?


----------



## Rick McGuire

This has to be the largest brass library ever sampled


----------



## Drundfunk

star.keys said:


> Great news!
> 
> Question: Until when will the pre-order price last and when can we expect some demos/walkthrough videos please?


Last sentence in their announcement?  "*The Junkie XL Brass Pre-Order Special* will be available until the release of the collection, December 16. The normal price will be 749€ + VAT. "


----------



## Eptesicus

Drundfunk said:


> Last sentence in their announcement?  "*The Junkie XL Brass Pre-Order Special* will be available until the release of the collection, December 16. The normal price will be 749€ + VAT. "



Not too keen on this tactic. Would have been nice to have that overun by a week or two, so that it can get into people's hands first or we can get some reviews...


----------



## Craig Sharmat

Eptesicus said:


> Not too keen on this tactic. Would have been nice to have that overun by a week or two, so that it can get into people's hands first or we can get some reviews...



this is always how OT does it, and they send out a lot of content beforehand. Also they have very good quality control, I doubt it drops off here.


----------



## Mystic

Eptesicus said:


> Not too keen on this tactic. Would have been nice to have that overun by a week or two, so that it can get into people's hands first or we can get some reviews...


We'll likely have some reviews by then.


----------



## Eptesicus

Craig Sharmat said:


> this is always how OT does it, and they send out a lot of content beforehand. Also they have very good quality control, I doubt it drops off here.



Thats good then :D


----------



## Mucusman

Eptesicus said:


> Not too keen on this tactic. Would have been nice to have that overun by a week or two, so that it can get into people's hands first or we can get some reviews...



Actually, OT's plan is usually to give the steepest discount to those who order before release, then kick up the price _a little bit_ (50-75 euros) right after release, and then a week or two later bring it up to their full price. So I would expect the 499 euro price to increase to 549 on 16 December, and then a week or two later, you'll see it hit 749.


----------



## paularthur

Well, there goes my Black Friday plans..


----------



## Manaberry

Looking forward to getting walkthrough videos from OT. I didn't like the teaser at all, to be honest. It almost killed my ears. I'm really curious about the player though.


----------



## jamwerks

5 dynamic layers, that's awesome! CSB has only 4. The mic merging feature is something they announced for their new player (and not possible in Kontakt). Guess that means their new player is ready!!


----------



## Eptesicus

Manaberry said:


> Looking forward to getting walkthrough videos from OT. I didn't like the teaser at all, to be honest. It almost killed my ears. I'm really curious about the player though.



Its quite worrying that this is the demo they have gone with as the first showcase isnt it?

I know its only a short little passage, but still. I was expecting to be blown away.

Like...do OT and Junkie actually think that sounds good


----------



## Damarus

Eptesicus said:


> Its quite worrying that this is the demo they have gone with as the first showcase isnt it?
> 
> I know its only a short little passage, but still. I was expecting to be blown away.
> 
> Like...do OT and Junkie actually think that sounds good


Yeah Sounds like - "I dont know just throw something epic in there for now"

Really eager to hear alot more considering the list of instruments and the new OT player


----------



## Kony

Craig Sharmat said:


> this is always how OT does it, and they send out a lot of content beforehand. Also they have very good quality control, I doubt it drops off here.


Agree 100% - I have total faith in this product, especially with JXL attached! This is an insta-buy for me.


----------



## Kony

Also, from the OT website:

*Specifications*

Works with Orchestral Tools' SINE Player
690GB of samples (300GB SINEarc compressed)
24Bit / 48KHz Patches


----------



## Chungus

Eptesicus said:


> I know its only a short little passage, but still. I was expecting to be blown away.
> 
> Like...do OT and Junkie actually think that sounds good


What if he expected you to be blown away, _literaly?_ 

When the call to turn the speakers up came, my reaction was "fuck no, I know what's coming."


----------



## Geocranium

Eptesicus said:


> Its quite worrying that this is the demo they have gone with as the first showcase isnt it?
> 
> I know its only a short little passage, but still. I was expecting to be blown away.
> 
> Like...do OT and Junkie actually think that sounds good




I would wager yes? Doesn't a lot of Junkie's music sound like that? He's not exactly known for his gentile nocturnes. I don't really see anything wrong with the demo... it sounds like a crisp FFFF brass blast that's so in vogue these days.


----------



## JF

From support page FYI:
*Is there a Kontakt version?*

Junkie XL Brass is released exclusively on our new OT Sample Player. There is no Kontakt version.

As soon as the collection is released, the OT Sample Player will be available for download for free.


----------



## shawnsingh

I wonder if the tree/AB mic positions are the same as the Berlin Brass?


----------



## Eptesicus

Geocranium said:


> I would wager yes? Doesn't a lot of Junkie's music sound like that? He's not exactly known for his gentile nocturnes. I don't really see anything wrong with the demo... it sounds like a crisp FFFF brass blast that's so in vogue these days.



I wasnt commenting on the composition as such, more the actual sound of the brass .

Sounds overly processed to me.


----------



## MartinH.

Chungus said:


> When the call to turn the speakers up came, my reaction was "fuck no, I know what's coming."



Yeah, same here. I already have tinnitus from loud noise exposure and I don't appreciate them trying to worsen it.




Eptesicus said:


> Its quite worrying that this is the demo they have gone with as the first showcase isnt it?
> 
> I know its only a short little passage, but still. I was expecting to be blown away.
> 
> Like...do OT and Junkie actually think that sounds good



I had no specific expectations and after hearing this short snippet I was relieved to hear that this one is an easy pass for me. This one isn't replacing my MA1 brass for sure. I hope other will like it though. 

The technical aspects sound like an interesting usecase for the player though. I'll keep an eye on user reviews to see how that one is turning out. Only downloading the mic positions that you need sounds interesting for example.

Good luck to all the pre-orderers!


----------



## Billy Palmer

Clearly I'm in the minority but I REALLY like the sound of the demo at the end of the teaser.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

William Palmer said:


> Clearly I'm in the minority but I REALLY like the sound of the demo at the end of the teaser.



I like it too, it's supposed to be loud and crunchy, it's too early to tell what the softer dynamics sound like but that was a nice wall of sound. The high trumpets, at least up to a D had a lot of balls, often a problem in sample libs.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

I dont prefer the tone heard in the demo, but I'll definitely listen for more demos

maybe this is simply a premixed mic that I dont like


----------



## germancomponist

If someone has reinvented the wheel, then it will sound completely different / better than the usual! 
I can't wait for more audio demos.


----------



## bvaughn0402

I noticed they finally have an Account option on their site. I signed up, but doesn't show my current licenses with them. I'm guessing that will be something soon coming?


----------



## Drundfunk

I need more demos, walkthroughs etc. I want to know what this library is capable of before making a decision.


----------



## korruptkey

probably a long shot but any chance of cross grade offers for Berlin Brass owners?


----------



## Geocranium

Man I thought the sound of the demo was awesome. Made me smile because it's just so ridiculously powerful sounding. Not really the kind of music I write, but man, I don't think I've heard a full-on wall of brass like that.


----------



## Raphioli

I'm assuming the demo was created using a12 and a6 patches with the highest dynamics all the way.
So I'm going to wait for a walkthrough before making any final judgement.

Hopefully a walkthrough which slowly moves the mod wheel to let us hear the 5 dynamic layers and to actually hear what they are claiming which is, "Dynamic crossfading is exceptionally smooth and industry leading". I'd like this for EACH patch in the library, since we can't demo the library.

I would also like to know how many RR's the shorts have, unless I've missed it somewhere.

And I hope they do this before their pre-order period ends, because I'm assuming the price will slightly increase when its released and will move to an "intro price" from a "pre-order price".


----------



## valexnerfarious

I think they will release a kontakt version because me and a friend of mine was discussing this awhile back and he said they were some beta patches for Kontakt of the horns. Thats what I heard.


----------



## Rectobiasi

OrchestralTools said:


> *Mic Merging & Download Customization *
> Junkie XL Brass offers a total of 16 microphone positions ranging from unprocessed to production-ready mixes by renowned movie scoring mixer *Alan Meyerson*. The highly innovative Mic Merging feature allows you to save on resources: simply create your custom mic mix and save it as a single position.
> If your disk space is limited, you can customize your download by selecting the mic positions you need – alternatively, you can download them all and see which ones work best with your ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The Junkie XL Brass Pre-Order Special* will be available until the release of the collection, December 16. The normal price will be 749€ + VAT.
> 
> *Find all information about Junkie XL Brass on jxlbrass.com*




Hey @OrchestralTools ! Say I have limited space on my disk and I want to download just a few instruments, maybe two or three and with just some mics for insta use, would it work or be possible ? Just want to make sure I understood well, like I shouldn't have to download all the instruments just for example Horns 12 and Trombones 12 and start immediately composing with ?


----------



## Consona

No a la carte purchase option now or ever?


----------



## tabulius

Sure the teaser demo was an extreme FFF, but 5 dynamic layers(!) So it can play quiet too. Very interested (and little worried) about their sample player; cpu/ram-usage, purging options etc. But that all remains to be seen.


----------



## AdamKmusic

People complaining about it being too processed? This is JXL Brass after all, I mean everyone complained that HZ Strings didn’t sound like HZ but now some are complaining that JXL Brass sounds too much like JXL?


----------



## Dr.Quest

AdamKmusic said:


> People complaining about it being too processed? This is JXL Brass after all, I mean everyone complained that HZ Strings didn’t sound like HZ but now some are complaining that JXL Brass sounds too much like JXL?


That’s what’s so entertaining about this crowd! 🤣


----------



## axb312

Not a fan of the sound. I know it's JXL but there was some talk of versatility during the inital hype with this lib.

Still interested to see whats on offer and why 16 mic positions are needed (another trend I'm not liking so much - results in (imo) bloated sample libs)....


----------



## zimm83

JF said:


> From support page FYI:
> *Is there a Kontakt version?*
> 
> Junkie XL Brass is released exclusively on our new OT Sample Player. There is no Kontakt version.
> 
> As soon as the collection is released, the OT Sample Player will be available for download for free.


F..K . So goodbye OT. I lovED you ....everyting has an end......
Don't want to have another and another and another new player. Staying Kontakt..

Bye.


----------



## Nicola74

tabulius said:


> Sure the teaser demo was an extreme FFF, but 5 dynamic layers(!) So it can play quiet too. Very interested (and little worried) about their sample player; cpu/ram-usage, purging options etc. But that all remains to be seen.


5 dynamic layers: ff, fff, ffff, fffff and finally ffffff  just kidding, I am just waiting a walkthrough just to say "ok Nicola, isn't that enough? Buy it, you already knew this is the right thing to do!"


----------



## Denkii

JF said:


> Junkie XL Brass is released exclusively on our new OT Sample Player. There is no Kontakt version.


Orchestral Spitfire Reloaded: Revenge of the Sample Players.


----------



## Raphioli

I'm open to new samplers as long as they don't perform worse than Kontakt.
By that I mean, playing the same amount of voices require the same or lower CPU usage as Kontakt.

Being able to go under the hood would also be a plus, but since its a new sampler, I won't be expecting it to have all the features Kontakt has. Being able to edit stuff would be nice, since if we can't expect a fix soon, users can at least try to fix glitches/bugs on their own.
Feature equivalent to Time Machine would also be nice.


----------



## Uiroo

AdamKmusic said:


> People complaining about it being too processed? This is JXL Brass after all, I mean everyone complained that HZ Strings didn’t sound like HZ but now some are complaining that JXL Brass sounds too much like JXL?


I like Tom's sound, listen to the link below, that's awesome. But the demo didn't sound that good to me too.


----------



## jamwerks

People here generally complain about lacking loud dynamic layers, so them seem to have wanted to take care of that on the first little listen. I'm hopeful about the 5 velocity layers, but the real trick seems to be how well things have been programmed and if there is lots of phasing during cross-fades. We shall see!!


----------



## Solarsentinel

690 gigas!... Ok you can if you want not all dowloading but 690 gigs!! So after the pre order period it's 749 eur + VAT + an 1To SSD. Very pricy! 
So Waiting for demos.


----------



## babylonwaves

zimm83 said:


> F..K . So goodbye OT. I lovED you ....everyting has an end......
> Don't want to have another and another and another new player. Staying Kontakt..


you know, the product is not even out. don't be so prejudiced. just saying


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

zimm83 said:


> F..K . So goodbye OT. I lovED you ....everyting has an end......
> Don't want to have another and another and another new player. Staying Kontakt..
> 
> Bye.


----------



## Christopher Rocky

holy molys 690 gig!? so does this lib have the lav mic option for the conductor? or the under the floorboards ambient muffled mic? otherwise i'm out... 

Please Allow me to indulge myself here.
"Trumpets - Horns - Trombones - Cimbassi - Tuba"

Looks like each instrument patch has 8 artics (c-1 to g-1) + the 5 dynamic layers for each, possibly no dynamic layers for rips though, otherwise that WOULD be a first! XD

Lets make an assumption, for each instrument there's 3 patches, eg.
Trumpets a6
Trumpets a3
Solo Trumpet (assuming there is a legato as well as the other artics too)

Say 5 instruments (x3 patches for each) thats 15,
lets give them the benefit of the doubt and round it up to 20 instrument patches.

690 gig divided by 20 instruments = 34.5 gig for each individual instrument,
THEN divide that by 16 mics = 2.156gig for each mic

That amount actually makes much more sense for each mic.
then you can further divide that by 8 articulations = 269.53 mb for each articulation in each mic.
for 24bit/48khz thats about on the money.

Just wanted to demystify the extra gig space, it all CLEARLY goes into the mics, just like BBCSO.

I'm very interested as to why this many mics would be necessary for a lib that clearly wants to be upfront and melt your face off ( blow your face off?? :D ) as opposed to sitting in the corner of German Cathedral with a 100 meter ceiling.
either way i'm pumped to hear what this sounds like!


----------



## Fry777

ChristopherRock said:


> I'm very interested as to why this many mics would be necessary for a lib that clearly wants to be upfront and melt your face off ( blow your face off?? :D ) as opposed to sitting in the corner of German Cathedral with a 100 meter ceiling.



I think that might be more people's perception (due to JXL being involved) than OT's actual sales pitch : _"with a dynamic range from *whisper-quiet pianissimo* to thunderously loud fortissimo"_

OT might be aiming for a more general use brass lib, rather than a Super Metropolis Ark 1, even though the teaser aims to hype the FFF crowd. Hoping for lower dynamics demos soon, we shall see


----------



## Geoff Grace

Craig Sharmat said:


> this is always how OT does it, and they send out a lot of content beforehand. Also they have very good quality control, I doubt it drops off here.


Agreed. I expect this to be a very good library. 

The uncharted territory, as others have mentioned, is the new player. I expect more from Orchestral Tools than from most companies; but version 1.0 software almost universally has at least a few bugs to work out. 

Looking forward to more info…

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Uiroo

Geoff Grace said:


> Agreed. I expect this to be a very good library.
> 
> The uncharted territory, as others have mentioned, is the new player. I expect more from Orchestral Tools than from most companies; but version 1.0 software almost universally has at least a few bugs to work out.


Yeah, some bugs just can't be predicted. The windows issue with BBCSO seemed to not occur on the windows pcs they used, so stuff like that will likely happen with Sine, too.

I just seems risky to spend 500€ in order to test a completely new player and a library without any user reviews. But maybe I'll do it, depends on the walkthroughs.


----------



## jamwerks

So no multi-tongue arts? That's a pretty basic brass technic.

Also, the choice of horn ensembles is odd; solo, a4, a6, a12, but no a2 which to me seems to be the most useful. 

They are clearly planning on expansion packs. Man I hope this turns out to be good!

The feature allowing multi-mic to stereo processing will be little short of revolutionary. Shape your own sound out of the 6 or 7 main mic arrays, but ram and cpu only get hit with 2 channels. Awesome!


----------



## Guffy

jamwerks said:


> So no multi-tongue arts? That's a pretty basic brass technic.
> 
> Also, the choice of horn ensembles is odd; solo, a4, a6, a12, but no a2 which to me seems to be the most useful.
> 
> They are clearly planning on expansion packs. Man I hope this turns out to be good!
> 
> The feature allowing multi-mic to stereo processing will be little short of revolutionary. Shape your own sound out of the 6 or 7 main mic arrays, but ram and cpu only get hit with 2 channels. Awesome!


There's Berlin Brass for all that stuff.
Not sure i've ever heard JXL use multitongue artics 😜


----------



## jamwerks

Guffy said:


> There's Berlin Brass for all that stuff.
> Not sure i've ever heard JXL use multitongue artics 😜


Shame on Junkie!


----------



## gjelul

AdamKmusic said:


> People complaining about it being too processed? This is JXL Brass after all, I mean everyone complained that HZ Strings didn’t sound like HZ but now some are complaining that JXL Brass sounds too much like JXL?




A library for everyone, or that even JW would use???


----------



## Drago

Ok great now they can focus on Inspire 3 on Kontakt


----------



## MartinH.

Plot twist: the trailer used the _lowest _of the 5 dynamics they sampled.


----------



## turnerofwheels

Looking forward to seeing more info on SINE player soon. I hope it can do multitimbral because by comparison HZS turns my VEP template into a visual sprawl...


----------



## Raphioli

Guffy said:


> There's Berlin Brass for all that stuff.
> Not sure i've ever heard JXL use multitongue artics 😜



I might have heard it in Alita but I'm not sure.

But mutlitongue is a basic articulation imo, so I'm surprised they sampled playable runs for multiple instruments but no multitongue.
UNLESS, the stacattissmos do the trick.
I also remember he said it will be a one stop shop brass library in one of the videos.


----------



## Drundfunk

When can we expect walkthroughs and demos? (Also a walkthrough for SINE would be nice).


----------



## OrchestralTools

With more than 15 developers working for over 3 years, we are so proud to finally introduce our new player: SINE.

Since the first prototype was built, we've been so excited by all the advancements we’ve made. 
The release of our SINE player only marks the beginning of all the innovations to come.

To give you all the information you need, we’ve decided to create a SINE video series; showing you everything our SINE player has to offer - step by step. 

https://youtu.be/wYRgk5yqZMg (Introducing the SINE Player - Episode 1)




You can also visit http://www.getsine.com/ (www.getSINE.com) for even more information about the groundbreaking features our SINE player has to offer, including:

Mic Merging
Auto Volume Scaling
Easy-to-use UI
Articulation Management
Single Instruments
Download à la carte - save space by only downloading the Mic Positions & Instruments you want


----------



## axb312

Drundfunk said:


> When can we expect walkthroughs and demos? (Also a walkthrough for SINE would be nice).



Based on previous product launches from orchestral tools, a detailed walkthrough will probably come a day or two before release.


----------



## shawnsingh

Congrats! Very exciting.


----------



## KEM

OrchestralTools said:


> With more than 15 developers working for over 3 years, we are so proud to finally introduce our new player: SINE.
> 
> Since the first prototype was built, we've been so excited by all the advancements we’ve made.
> The release of our SINE player only marks the beginning of all the innovations to come.
> 
> To give you all the information you need, we’ve decided to create a SINE video series; showing you everything our SINE player has to offer - step by step.
> 
> https://youtu.be/wYRgk5yqZMg (Introducing the SINE Player - Episode 1)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can also visit http://www.getsine.com/ (www.getSINE.com) for even more information about the groundbreaking features our SINE player has to offer, including:
> 
> Mic Merging
> Auto Volume Scaling
> Easy-to-use UI
> Articulation Management
> Single Instruments
> Download à la carte - save space by only downloading the Mic Positions & Instruments you want




I’m excited to get my hands on it and try it out!


----------



## purple

OrchestralTools said:


> With more than 15 developers working for over 3 years, we are so proud to finally introduce our new player: SINE.
> 
> Since the first prototype was built, we've been so excited by all the advancements we’ve made.
> The release of our SINE player only marks the beginning of all the innovations to come.
> 
> To give you all the information you need, we’ve decided to create a SINE video series; showing you everything our SINE player has to offer - step by step.
> 
> https://youtu.be/wYRgk5yqZMg (Introducing the SINE Player - Episode 1)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can also visit http://www.getsine.com/ (www.getSINE.com) for even more information about the groundbreaking features our SINE player has to offer, including:
> 
> Mic Merging
> Auto Volume Scaling
> Easy-to-use UI
> Articulation Management
> Single Instruments
> Download à la carte - save space by only downloading the Mic Positions & Instruments you want





Wow I really like some of those features. Especially the mic merging and volume scaling. There simply must be a catch. It's too perfect hehe.


----------



## KEM

purple said:


> Wow I really like some of those features. Especially the mic merging and volume scaling. There simply must be a catch. It's too perfect hehe.



We’ll find out what the catch is when we get our hands on it haha


----------



## Francis Bourre

OrchestralTools said:


> Mic Merging
> Auto Volume Scaling
> Easy-to-use UI
> Articulation Management
> Single Instruments
> Download à la carte - save space by only downloading the Mic Positions & Instruments you want


That's amazing guys, congrats for the hard work, but more than that for the innovative features you put in this player. Can't wait to play with it.


----------



## OrchestralTools

Hey everyone!

Thanks for all the great feedback so far. Walkthroughs and more content is in the making and of course they will be released with enough time before the pre-order ends.
Keep your eyes peeled for the next episode of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYRgk5yqZMg ('Introducing: the SINE Player') and if you have anything you want to ask us, fire away!

And don't forget to check out http://www.getSINE.com (www.getSINE.com) for more information.

Thanks for all your support,

Hendrik


----------



## Raphioli

OrchestralTools said:


> Walkthroughs and more content is in the making and of course they will be released with enough time before the pre-order ends.



^This is what I wanted to hear.
Looking forward to those walkthroughs.


----------



## KEM

The French Horns sound pretty good to me in this new video, and the new engine looks promising as well


----------



## OrchestralTools

Hey Guys,

I just shot another episode, showing you how to get started with SINE.
From installing SINE to playing the first patch.



Btw, more Walkthroughts around Junkie XL Brass & another view behind the curtain will come!
In the meantime, for more info head to http://www.getsine.com/ (www.getsine.com) and jxlbrass.com

All the best,
Hendrik


----------



## Raphioli

I agree with KEM. I like what I'm hearing and can't wait to hear the other articulations.
And the installation process looks straight forward.


----------



## Daniel James

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I just shot another episode, showing you how to get started with SINE.
> From installing SINE to playing the first patch.
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, more Walkthroughts around Junkie XL Brass & another view behind the curtain will come!
> In the meantime, for more info head to http://www.getsine.com/ (www.getsine.com) and jxlbrass.com
> 
> All the best,
> Hendrik




Ok I need that French horn in my life!

-DJ


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

we’re in the middle of polishing the patches and preparing the walkthrough.

Just wanted to share this little legato snipped with you…. (please, don’t tell Tom  )

Especially listen to how great it blends across those 5 dynamic layers.
This is played with just a single legato patch.



https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/hornsolotest-mp3.24828/?hash=b6f5bce69435af4303e765a3109327be



More to hear soon.

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## Consona

The sound is fantastic and playability seems to be exceptionally good, but the stereo field and phase are all over the place.


----------



## Eptesicus

To be honest. That solo horn example is nice, but it isn't groundbreaking. Still has the same hiccups that a lot of libraries have in the transitions etc.

The staccato horns sound pretty good in the SINE video.

Still on the fence with this one. For the money and the size it will take up on my computer/in ram it needs to be excellent.


----------



## axb312

Consona said:


> The sound is fantastic and playability seems to be exceptionally good, but the stereo field and phase are all over the place.



Agree. Stereo field is weird. Thought I might be the only one hearing it.


----------



## Consona

axb312 said:


> Agree. Stereo field is weird. Thought I might be the only one hearing it.


It felt weird when I was listening to it so I put it through a metering plugin, it is all over the place.


----------



## KEM

I think it sounds great! Can’t wait!


----------



## Damarus

Welp, 4th of December to figure out if I want to spend a lot more on JXL brass or jump on the CSB train.


----------



## Consona




----------



## David Kudell

Wow, it sounds fantastic to my ears, especially the dynamics. It's like you everything between a soft Berlin Brass horn to loud Metropolis Ark in one patch.


----------



## KEM

David Kudell said:


> Wow, it sounds fantastic to my ears, especially the dynamics. It's like you everything between a soft Berlin Brass horn to loud Metropolis Ark in one patch.



Agreed and that's something I've always wanted as well.


----------



## erica-grace

Not exactly enamored with that. Sounds ok, but as stated by Eptesicus earlier, this isn't groundbreaking. Not at all. Some of the transitions sound pretty good, some sound really, really bad. If this is an accurate representation of what the library on the whole sounds like, I will probably pass.


----------



## prodigalson

I also hear issues with the stereo field and I'm not totally surprised. My experience with Glory Days is the same. one note sounds like its coming from the right, the next the center, the next a little to the left, even on some of the close mics


----------



## Real JXL

Dear All, Tom Holkenborg here... I would love to answer questions if you have one!

I’m super proud of the library and a lot of you will be really happy once you hear all the instruments! I’m working on a demo as we speak! Stay tuned!! Xxx tom


----------



## KEM

Real JXL said:


> Dear All, Tom Holkenborg here... I would love to answer questions if you have one!
> 
> I’m super proud of the library and a lot of you will be really happy once you hear all the instruments! I’m working on a demo as we speak! Stay tuned!! Xxx tom



What are some specific features you incorporated into this library that you felt existing libraries on the market were lacking? And how has your experience with the SINE engine been so far as opposed to your go-to Kontakt?

Really excited for the library, I pre-ordered as soon as it went online!!


----------



## Uiroo

Real JXL said:


> Dear All, Tom Holkenborg here... I would love to answer questions if you have one!
> 
> I’m super proud of the library and a lot of you will be really happy once you hear all the instruments! I’m working on a demo as we speak! Stay tuned!! Xxx tom


Hey Tom,

wheres the Snyder Cu... ehm, sorry.

So, after coming off the dancefloor and becoming a composer, and seing the Orchestral Sampling Future in Computer Hell you mentioned a few times that Brass Libraries are the "worst" accross all types of orchestral libraries, even in this moment.
What exactly did give you nightmares and could be improved the most, and where do you think you nailed it with JXL Brass? Which ambitions with the project did you need to let "drift away"?

Will there be a JXL Radio Technical Support?

ps: I hope there will be a little less conversation over here than in the BBCSO thread.

edit: I was too slow, same question as KEM


----------



## Real JXL

Thank you for the pre order! 

All brass from super soft warm ppp over 5 layers to true fff 

Super consistent attacks and velocity control

Merge your own mixes into a stereo stem for light operation

Offer very processed hype brass sound AND complete natural microphe sound

2 attacks on sustains... actually really played not an overlay

Beautiful rich sound that is needed in modern fimscoring


----------



## Pontus Rufelt

I hope the solo horn legato example doesn’t represent the rest of the legatos as it sounds quite disjointed, but I’m looking forward to hearing more of the library.


----------



## Real JXL

prodigalson said:


> I also hear issues with the stereo field and I'm not totally surprised. My experience with Glory Days is the same. one note sounds like its coming from the right, the next the center, the next a little to the left, even on some of the close mics


 
We are still tweaking the instruments but we were so excited already how this solo horn sounds!


----------



## Real JXL

Pontus Rufelt said:


> I hope the solo horn legato example doesn’t represent the rest of the legatos as it sounds quite disjointed, but I’m looking forward to hearing more of the library.



Believe me when I say you will be very happy when all final instruments are tweaked and you hear the demo’s!!


----------



## Pontus Rufelt

Real JXL said:


> Believe me when I say you will be very happy when all final instruments are tweaked and you hear the demo’s!!



Cant wait to hear them!  Having 5 dynamic layers is very intriguing, definitely looking forward to hearing how the crossfades sound.


----------



## Peter Satera

Hey Tom, thanks for joining in!

You have used a lot of Cinebrass from the vids we've seen. Do you think this surpasses and therefore is likely to replace them or will it produce a unique voice which will add to your options?

Really enjoying what I'm hearing!


----------



## Real JXL

Peter Satera said:


> Hey Tom, thanks for joining in!
> 
> You have used a lot of Cinebrass from the vids we've seen. Do you think this surpasses and therefore is likely to replace them or will it produce a unique voice which will add to your options?
> 
> Really enjoying what I'm hearing!




I have JXL brass as of yesterday in my template replacing ALL brass I had before... That tells you something doesn’t it!


----------



## David Kudell

Hi Tom! What’s your favorite patch so far?

PS - So excited for this library! I know it’s going to be good because it’s not you just putting your name on it, but you can tell this is something you’re part of on every level, and are going to use on the biggest films!


----------



## Real JXL

David Kudell said:


> Hi Tom! What’s your favorite patch so far?
> 
> PS - So excited for this library! I know it’s going to be good because it’s not you just putting your name on it, but you can tell this is something you’re part of on every level, and are going to use on the biggest films!




The bass trombones and the trombones.... so soft and silk in ppp mode... so brutal and aggressive in fff mode!!


----------



## gjelul

Hi Tom,

Thank you for taking the time!

Question:
How would you go when wanting to write a 2, 3, or 4 voice brass 'chorale' with the library?
Having only Solo, and then a4 and so on would restrict it.


----------



## Guffy

gjelul said:


> Having only Solo, and then a4 and so on would restrict it.


Use 2,3 or 4 solo patches?


----------



## gjelul

Guffy said:


> Use 2,3 or 4 solo patches?





Using the same solo player 4times - as you suggest - is something that other libraries have avoided bcs it would not be the same as having 1, 2, 3, 4 different players.


----------



## Consona

Uiroo said:


> Hey Tom,
> 
> wheres the Snyder Cu... ehm, sorry.


Asking the real question there.


----------



## Supremo

Hey Tom! Really happy to see you here. How do you find OT's 'Sine' in comparison with NI Kontakt? What are the obvious advantages? Should we be worried about the CPU overload?


----------



## Guffy

gjelul said:


> Using the same solo player 4times - as you suggest - is something that other libraries have avoided bcs it would not be the same as having 1, 2, 3, 4 different players.


No it's not the same but it will work just fine.
Plus, you have exactly what you are talking about in Berlin Brass.


----------



## gjelul

Guffy said:


> No it's not the same but it will work just fine.
> Plus, you have exactly what you are talking about in Berlin Brass.



Hello Guffy,

It may work for you, but it will not work just fine for some others. I can go on and explain why it is not ideal having the same solo instrument playing all the parts, but this has been extensively elaborated here. Yes, I am aware that Berlin Brass has that separate lay out, but again, we are talking about the JXL Brass. I own a few Brass libraries, and I like them all for certain things, and no one's perfect.

JXL Brass doesn't have the separate instruments, I can live with that. However, they must have had a reason to not do it and a solution for people like me who like to write one line per separate instrument. 

Tom did mention that he's replaced all other brass libraries he has with his new library. The interest here is to have him hopefully share his thoughts on how he uses it or suggests using it in regards to separate voices / divisi, and such.


----------



## Geocranium

gjelul said:


> JXL Brass doesn't have the separate instruments, I can live with that. However, they must have had a reason to not do it and a solution for people like me who like to write one line per separate instrument.



I imagine composers that want to write out each individual horn part on separate instruments are in the very small minority and it isn't really a use case they've made the library for. This seems like more of a "hold down four notes on a sustain patch for chords" library, like most others.


----------



## David Kudell

Geocranium said:


> I imagine composers that want to write out each individual horn part on separate instruments are in the very small minority and it isn't really a use case they've made the library for. This seems like more of a "hold down four notes on a sustain patch for chords" library, like most others.


Well with the new Sine player that OT has it will be fairly easy for them to add an extra horn or two if there’s a lot of desire from the community for it.


----------



## erica-grace

David Kudell said:


> Well with the new Sine player that OT has it will be fairly easy for them to add an extra horn or two if there’s a lot of desire from the community for it.



No easier than if it were a Kontakt library.


----------



## erica-grace

gjelul said:


> XL Brass doesn't have the separate instruments, I can live with that.



Yes it does


----------



## Raphioli

Real JXL said:


> I would love to answer questions if you have one!



Its very kind of you to chime in!

I'm sure the demos and walkthroughs will speak for itself, so I'd like to hear/watch them ASAP.

Aside from that, some other people are also asking about how efficient the SINE player is.
I am also curious/concerned how the SINE Player is performing compared to Kontakt. (e.g. is the CPU usage around the same when playing the same amount of voices, etc.)

We can only download the SINE Player right on the day the preorder is going to end.
So the only way to get performance/efficiency information of the SINE player is through you or OT.
But if you are under NDA or something, I understand.

(But to be honest, I also had some thoughts in the back of my head that you might have a special edition tailored for you that runs on Kontakt 
Because I know you've mentioned many times in your videos that you love Kontakt.)


P.S.
Love your Youtube channel!
Really appreciate you spending the time to create content for us to watch, even though you are a very busy person.


EDITED: Just noticed the news JXL Brass thread on the Sample Talk section. Reading through it right now


----------



## purple

Real JXL said:


> The bass trombones and the trombones.... so soft and silk in ppp mode... so brutal and aggressive in fff mode!!


That's exciting. Trombones are IMO the hardest to get right with samples.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

I would like to hear some tight and fast rhythms to see how they can perform repetitions... So far it seems like at least the Crossfade is excellent


----------



## ProfoundSilence

erica-grace said:


> No easier than if it were a Kontakt library.


The problem is doing it that way means you either have to pay for extra licensing and cluttering up someone's Library View, or you have a very easy to Pirate product that requires someone to have the full version of kontakt in order to even use

If orchestral tools wants to add a horns a2 to the shop they can just take a good pair Alcorn players and track it in an evening, and throw it up on the shop

And yes orchestral tools, I am absolutely suggesting an A2 French horn patch


----------



## Eptesicus

ProfoundSilence said:


> And yes orchestral tools, I am absolutely suggesting an A2 French horn patch




This


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Eptesicus said:


> This




well it makes more sense than an a4 patch, considering there is a a6 patch, you could use the a2 for triads.


----------



## tokatila

ProfoundSilence said:


> well it makes more sense than an a4 patch, considering there is a a6 patch, you could use the a2 for triads.



Yeah! But A4 is for three part writing against A12.


----------



## Eptesicus

tokatila said:


> Yeah! But A4 is for three part writing against A12.


----------



## Real JXL

gjelul said:


> Hello Guffy,
> 
> It may work for you, but it will not work just fine for some others. I can go on and explain why it is not ideal having the same solo instrument playing all the parts, but this has been extensively elaborated here. Yes, I am aware that Berlin Brass has that separate lay out, but again, we are talking about the JXL Brass. I own a few Brass libraries, and I like them all for certain things, and no one's perfect.
> 
> JXL Brass doesn't have the separate instruments, I can live with that. However, they must have had a reason to not do it and a solution for people like me who like to write one line per separate instrument.
> 
> Tom did mention that he's replaced all other brass libraries he has with his new library. The interest here is to have him hopefully share his thoughts on how he uses it or suggests using it in regards to separate voices / divisi, and such.



I Usually record 12 horns in my live recordings so the way that I write is the following; A single 12 horn line like for instance a big heroic melody will be programmed on the a12 patch. A 3 part harmony will be programmed on 3 a4 patches. A 2 part harmony will be programmed on a 2 a6 patch...

For the people that write in smaller sizes like 4 horns etc. You can program a single line on the a4 patch.

When your horns play 4 individual lines the 4 times solo horns works excellent. When you program 4 solo patches as a Unisono line you might get phasing and you will miss the quality of 4 horns playing unisono because they are recorded one by one if that makes sense...


----------



## brenneisen

what about 4-part harmony? 16 horns then? (4 x a4)*

better solution: get us a2 and we layer the top note with a4

done: 12 horns; if you insist on a12 being your full section


* I know that's not how sample-math works, but you got the point


----------



## ProfoundSilence

suppose a12 is divisible by 4 and 6


----------



## gjelul

Real JXL said:


> I Usually record 12 horns in my live recordings so the way that I write is the following; A single 12 horn line like for instance a big heroic melody will be programmed on the a12 patch. A 3 part harmony will be programmed on 3 a4 patches. A 2 part harmony will be programmed on a 2 a6 patch...
> 
> For the people that write in smaller sizes like 4 horns etc. You can program a single line on the a4 patch.
> 
> When your horns play 4 individual lines the 4 times solo horns works excellent. When you program 4 solo patches as a Unisono line you might get phasing and you will miss the quality of 4 horns playing unisono because they are recorded one by one if that makes sense...




Tom, this is immensely appreciated -- thank you for your time!


----------



## OrchestralTools

I’ve just released our 3rd episode on youtube, this one goes into articulation management in more detail, key switches, and a few more features (with a little look at Junkie XL Brass).



Demos & walkthroughs for Junkie XL Brass are coming really soon, but also we’re going to put out some more videos on the SINE player so you can get a closer look at it.

Let me know your thoughts, I really want to hear your feedback on this!

Best,
Hendrik


----------



## KEM

OrchestralTools said:


> I’ve just released our 3rd episode on youtube, this one goes into articulation management in more detail, key switches, and a few more features (with a little look at Junkie XL Brass).
> 
> 
> 
> Demos & walkthroughs for Junkie XL Brass are coming really soon, but also we’re going to put out some more videos on the SINE player so you can get a closer look at it.
> 
> Let me know your thoughts, I really want to hear your feedback on this!
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik




This looks so awesome, seriously. But I'm curious as to the purpose of being able to extended the range of instruments?


----------



## Chungus

OrchestralTools said:


> I’ve just released our 3rd episode on youtube, this one goes into articulation management in more detail, key switches, and a few more features (with a little look at Junkie XL Brass).
> 
> 
> 
> Demos & walkthroughs for Junkie XL Brass are coming really soon, but also we’re going to put out some more videos on the SINE player so you can get a closer look at it.
> 
> Let me know your thoughts, I really want to hear your feedback on this!
> 
> Best,
> Hendrik



First of all, the quality of life features shown here look amazing. It looks like - if the gamers amongst us would forgive me for saying this phrase - it just works. 

But I do have a question: How would cross fading between articulations work in this player?


----------



## Raphioli

The customizability, various settings under the hood you could change seems really nice.
A lot of settings you can change but intuitive at the same time.

One feature I would appreciate is a Time Machine feature.
Not sure how long it will take to develop one for SINE, but it would be really handy and would be a must if you are going to import all of your Berlin, MA series, since there are TM patches within those libraries.

The shorts in the video sound amazing btw.


----------



## KEM

Chungus said:


> First of all, the quality of life features shown here look amazing. It looks - if the gamers amongst us will forgive me for saying this phrase - it just works.
> 
> But I do have a question: How would cross fading between articulations work in this player?



I wish Bethesda still made good games... hopefully Starfield is a return to form, nobody wants this online trash out of them!


----------



## KEM

Sorry... off topic...

That French Horn patch sounds pretty aggressive and it's only the a4, can't wait to hear how crazy the a12 is!!


----------



## Living Fossil

Real JXL said:


> When your horns play 4 individual lines the 4 times solo horns works excellent.



The problem is the fact that it's quite usual in 4-part horn voicings that occasionally two instruments share a note. With using the same sample one has to use workarounds to avoid phasings.
That's why having more than 1 solo horns is quite essential.


----------



## Real JXL

Living Fossil said:


> The problem is the fact that it's quite usual in 4-part horn voicings that occasionally two instruments share a note. With using the same sample one has to use workarounds to avoid phasings.
> That's why having more than 1 solo horns is quite essential.



You are absolutely right about this... Here is a good trick that has helped me many times before... To avoid phasing while using two of the same instruments do this;

Load instrument one eg. solo horn... this is your principle horn... Load the instrument again and tune it a half step down on the sampler. In your midi track settings transpose one half step up for your midi track...

When you now play a g4 concert pitch on both horns your principle horn will be play the recorded sounding pitch g4... The second horn ACTUALLY plays the PLAYED note Ab 4 concert pitch but tuned down half step...

This will avoid phasing...

Its the best trick around until we would release 4 separate horn player solo patches..

Good luck!


----------



## Real JXL

Real JXL said:


> You are absolutely right about this... Here is a good trick that has helped me many times before... To avoid phasing while using two of the same instruments do this;
> 
> Load instrument one eg. solo horn... this is your principle horn... Load the instrument again and tune it a half step down on the sampler. In your midi track settings transpose one half step up for your midi track...
> 
> When you now play a g4 concert pitch on both horns your principle horn will be play the recorded sounding pitch g4... The second horn ACTUALLY plays the PLAYED note Ab 4 concert pitch but tuned down half step...
> 
> This will avoid phasing...
> 
> Its the best trick around until we would release 4 separate horn player solo patches..
> 
> Good luck!


Also the midi in your edit or score window will show the correct notes because of the track header midi modification


----------



## Living Fossil

Real JXL said:


> Load instrument one eg. solo horn... this is your principle horn... Load the instrument again and tune it a half step down on the sampler. In your midi track settings transpose one half step up for your midi track...



That's how i was doing it 15 years ago  But it's really not a workflow i liked... 

Therefore my advice for further versions of Junkie Brass would just be to take a second solo horn into consideration...


----------



## Real JXL

Living Fossil said:


> That's how i was doing it 15 years ago  But it's really not a workflow i liked...
> 
> Therefore my advice for further versions of Junkie Brass would just be to take a second solo horn into consideration...




It's notated in the to do list!! thanks for the input..


----------



## Eptesicus

Real JXL said:


> It's notated in the to do list!! thanks for the input..



Would love an a2 patch as well (if there is still room on your to do list!)


----------



## Uiroo

Real JXL said:


> You are absolutely right about this... Here is a good trick that has helped me many times before... To avoid phasing while using two of the same instruments do this;
> 
> Load instrument one eg. solo horn... this is your principle horn... Load the instrument again and tune it a half step down on the sampler. In your midi track settings transpose one half step up for your midi track...
> 
> When you now play a g4 concert pitch on both horns your principle horn will be play the recorded sounding pitch g4... The second horn ACTUALLY plays the PLAYED note Ab 4 concert pitch but tuned down half step...
> 
> This will avoid phasing...
> 
> Its the best trick around until we would release 4 separate horn player solo patches..
> 
> Good luck!


I gave this a try, but both Inside ans SPAN tell me it's even more out of phase if I do that. But i'm no audio expert.


----------



## MartinH.

Uiroo said:


> I gave this a try, but both Inside ans SPAN tell me it's even more out of phase if I do that. But i'm no audio expert.



If you only detune by 1 semi tone, you need libraries that sampled every semi tone and not stretched samples accross 2 semitones to cut their workload in half like most do. You need to detune by 2 semi tones to make sure you're getting different samples on some/most libraries. 
Trust your ears what sounds better. I'm not sure SPAN is the right tool to make a decision here.


----------



## Peter Satera

KEM said:


> This looks so awesome, seriously. But I'm curious as to the purpose of being able to extended the range of instruments?


Sometimes you just need to edge out of the playable range, this is a feature in some libs like Jaeger and Metro Ark. It's also beneficial for sound design. I do it MA2, where you can drop the basses by a semitone or two.


----------



## AEF

wow that keyswitch system is amazing


----------



## holywilly

I'm so excited about the new SINE player and pulled the trigger after watching the 3rd episode!
Thanks Tom & OT for creating this wonderful brass library.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

looks incredible!


----------



## KEM

Peter Satera said:


> Sometimes you just need to edge out of the playable range, this is a feature in some libs like Jaeger and Metro Ark. It's also beneficial for sound design. I do it MA2, where you can drop the basses by a semitone or two.



Interesting, could be fun to mess around with!


----------



## purple

Chungus said:


> First of all, the quality of life features shown here look amazing. It looks like - if the gamers amongst us would forgive me for saying this phrase - it just works.
> 
> But I do have a question: How would cross fading between articulations work in this player?



Let's not jinx it...


----------



## Nils Neumann

Real JXL said:


> You are absolutely right about this... Here is a good trick that has helped me many times before... To avoid phasing while using two of the same instruments do this;
> 
> Load instrument one eg. solo horn... this is your principle horn... Load the instrument again and tune it a half step down on the sampler. In your midi track settings transpose one half step up for your midi track...
> 
> When you now play a g4 concert pitch on both horns your principle horn will be play the recorded sounding pitch g4... The second horn ACTUALLY plays the PLAYED note Ab 4 concert pitch but tuned down half step...
> 
> This will avoid phasing...
> 
> Its the best trick around until we would release 4 separate horn player solo patches..
> 
> Good luck!




But it is recorded in wholetone anyway. So basically both come from the same sample^^


----------



## PeterKorcek

purple said:


> Let's not jinx it...



16 times the detail

16 TIMES THE DETAIL !


----------



## purple

PeterKorcek said:


> 16 times the detail
> 
> 16 TIMES THE DETAIL !



JXL samples were recorded at 768khz to achieve 16 times the detail!


----------



## kmm08

The one thing from the videos that I'm still not seeing so far is how you would you save your own settings and presets as in a Kontakt Multi so the next time you load up your instruments, the keyswitches and settings are the same. When working with templates and presets, you need consistency. I always set my keyswitches to the same keys for all libraries being used (depending on instrument range of course). I'm not seeing much point in having the app automatically assign keyswitches for you every time you load up an instrument's articulations (unless maybe your loading an instrument for the first time).


----------



## Real JXL

kmm08 said:


> The one thing from the videos that I'm still not seeing so far is how you would you save your own settings and presets as in a Kontakt Multi so the next time you load up your instruments, the keyswitches and settings are the same. When working with templates and presets, you need consistency. I always set my keyswitches to the same keys for all libraries being used (depending on instrument range of course). I'm not seeing much point in having the app automatically assign keyswitches for you every time you load up an instrument's articulations (unless maybe your loading an instrument for the first time).



You can program your own desired key switches to note value...

You can easily set that up in Sine and save your project so its the same every time you load it up...

I just setup expression maps in Cubase for the JXL brass and always use the same remote keys as well...

Other options are CC for art changes or even velocity... All depending on what you want or desire


----------



## Real JXL

KEM said:


> Interesting, could be fun to mess around with!



All ranges are expendable up and down... You can drag the trumpets out all the way down into the Tuba range if you want to experiment with sound design ... Its really cool!


----------



## kmm08

That's good to hear. Assumed there must be a way to save your own settings to the way you work. Probably best to wait till the manual is posted for download to read over all the options available. Working in Kontakt all these years now, it will probably take a little time to get used to the new interface.


----------



## Real JXL

By the way; The Sine player is super easy to work with... I have worked for years with Kontakt and within a day it felt like I was working with Sine for years...


----------



## star.keys

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I just shot another episode, showing you how to get started with SINE.
> From installing SINE to playing the first patch.
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, more Walkthroughts around Junkie XL Brass & another view behind the curtain will come!
> In the meantime, for more info head to http://www.getsine.com/ (www.getsine.com) and jxlbrass.com
> 
> All the best,
> Hendrik




That horns sound is killer... You guys have totally nailed the tone! Looking forward to more demos. Spitfire just lost my money that could be spent for SSB upgrade pending to complete my full SSO collection


----------



## star.keys

star.keys said:


> That horns sound is killer... You guys have totally nailed the tone! Looking forward to more demos. Spitfire just lost my money that could be spent for SSB upgrade pending to complete my full SSO collection



@OrchestralTools , something for you to watch out... When I type google search string "orchestral tools", I get a popup for Spirfire Audio google ad above your website in the search results... You guys need to get your digital marketing right (or please IM me, I'd be happy to advise!)


----------



## ProfoundSilence

OT has been spending their marketing dollars on quality material oddly. 

hard to compare to SFA when a few of its users are so absolutely prolific when it comes to videos even if they arent directly business related.

if hendrik blogged 2-3 times a week about scoring sessions at teldex it would probably end up taking away from the time spent working on OT products(even if it got many more eyes on them) 

I'm happy with where OT is in the market. and hope they continue to veer towards uncompromising quality rather than accessibility so that they continue to stand out


----------



## Breaker

I wonder if you are still limited by separate keyswitch patches or if you can just stack any patches (of a certain instrument) including legato ones?
And are keyswitches still limited to 12 patches only?
And can you route patches in a keyswitch multi to a different outputs (eg. longs and shorts)?

Maybe something for episode 4


----------



## shawnsingh

Breaker said:


> I wonder if you are still limited by separate keyswitch patches or if you can just stack any patches (of a certain instrument) including legato ones?
> And are keyswitches still limited to 12 patches only?
> And can you route patches in a keyswitch multi to a different outputs (eg. longs and shorts)?
> 
> Maybe something for episode 4



Definitely curious about these kinds of details, but I'm hoping episode 4 will be about the poly maps feature


----------



## Fitz

Real JXL said:


> By the way; The Sine player is super easy to work with... I have worked for years with Kontakt and within a day it felt like I was working with Sine for years...


Tom, I know your incredible attention to detail will shine through on this library and that's why I preordered Day 1. Looking forward to using what I'm sure will be the best brass library on the market.


----------



## Nemoy

I really think the preorder price should be extended after the release date so that there are more people who will get a chance to try it and provide their input. And this allow others who are still hesitant to purchase to make informed decisions whether or not they would want to purchase it or has what they are after. Cutting off the preorder price on release seems a dodgy move since nobody would have been able to try it until after. Thoughts?


----------



## OrchestralTools

Episode 4 is live!!
This one goes into more detail about Mic Merging.
You can go through the mixer step by step and get a real understanding of how SINE economizes on space. 



Mic Merging means you can mix multiple mic positions and create the exact sound you want, then merge them into one custom mix.

As ever, let us know your thoughts!

OT Team


----------



## Raphioli

I really think the Mic Merging feature is ground breaking.
Even the mature sampler Kontakt doesn't have such feature and I think all samplers should have it.
Not everyone has a server room full with rack mount PCs dedicated to samplers like Hans Zimmer or Junkie XL 

One feature request I would like to ask is,
I wish we could specify a certain drive to save our mic merged samples.
From the video, I didn't spot any options where you could specify a drive/folder.
(e.g. Lets say I have the original samples of Junkie XL Brass saved on E:¥ drive, I'd want to save my custom mic merged samples on another drive like F:¥ .)
It would be nice if you could add such feature.

EDITED:
Another nice feature would be the ability to see the mic settings you used to create the custom mic merge samples when you load the merged samples.
Lets say, I create a custom mic merge setup for a specific project. I save that mic merge sample with my DAW project file so that I can archive it on my backup drive when I'm finished with said project.
In the future, I might want to recall it and might want to use that mic merged samples, but maybe tweak it a little too. 
Its handy if you could see how you created that custom sample.
Of course, I could just take note and save a txt file with my project file or take a screenshot of the mixer settings and save that too.
But such feature would make life easier, at least for me.

Its a minor feature, but being able to save custom mic merge samples to another drive would be a major feature.


----------



## matthieuL

+1 Good idea


----------



## Consona

OrchestralTools said:


> Episode 4 is live!!
> This one goes into more detail about Mic Merging.
> You can go through the mixer step by step and get a real understanding of how SINE economizes on space.
> 
> 
> 
> Mic Merging means you can mix multiple mic positions and create the exact sound you want, then merge them into one custom mix.
> 
> As ever, let us know your thoughts!
> 
> OT Team







Great feature.


----------



## staypuft

That purge button looks sexy as hell 
While I have to pratically beg other developers to improve their player, OT is coming in full guns blazing with way more than I could possibly ask for. I said it before and I´ll say it again....Sine is the future!


----------



## matthieuL

... or other players are (so much) the past !


----------



## star.keys

OrchestralTools said:


> Episode 4 is live!!
> This one goes into more detail about Mic Merging.
> You can go through the mixer step by step and get a real understanding of how SINE economizes on space.
> 
> 
> 
> Mic Merging means you can mix multiple mic positions and create the exact sound you want, then merge them into one custom mix.
> 
> As ever, let us know your thoughts!
> 
> OT Team




SINE - yes, I like it and I get that it's a tool you have developed that opens up some interesting possibilities. I'm going to put money on the library (and not the player), keen to know if there is a plan to release any further demos of JXL Brass library / when please?


----------



## Eptesicus

yeh, make with the demos. 

Nearly 3 weeks on pre-order by now and not one proper audio demo yet (i'm discounting the teaser as it sounds horrible) for a 500 euro (well, 750 euro) library?!

Its an awful lot of money to commit to before even hearing it in action.


----------



## axb312

Eptesicus said:


> yeh, make with the demos.
> 
> Nearly 3 weeks on pre-order by now and not one proper audio demo yet (i'm discounting the teaser as it sounds horrible) for a 500 euro (well, 750 euro) library?!
> 
> Its an awful lot of money to commit to before even hearing it in action.



This is typical of Orchestral tools. Walkthroughs a day or two before pre-order ends and demos also relatively late. 

Pity because most of their stuff sounds so good.


----------



## PerryD

The poly articulations sound great so far. i don't think the solo instruments will replace my Samplemodeling brass.


----------



## jononotbono

Real JXL said:


> By the way; The Sine player is super easy to work with... I have worked for years with Kontakt and within a day it felt like I was working with Sine for years...



Is Sine stable? Probably a question for OT but as you have user experience with it your opinion is very valuable. I only ask because a new player can take a while to become what it should. The Spitfire Player has already been improved since release so I'm curious about Sine.


----------



## Richard Bowling

jononotbono said:


> Is Sine stable? Probably a question for OT but as you have user experience with it your opinion is very valuable. I only ask because a new player can take a while to become what it should. The Spitfire Player has already been improved since release so I'm curious about Sine.



i would be interested in this as well....


----------



## pawelmorytko

First walkthrough is out!


----------



## ProfoundSilence




----------



## ProfoundSilence

dear lord, that's a sale. 

they weren't kidding with the crossfades


----------



## OrchestralTools

THE WALKTHROUGH HAS ARRIVED!!! Although some of you guys already noticed...

The first Junkie XL Brass WALKTHROUGH is live and we can’t wait to hear your thoughts.



This Walkthrough delves into the mic positions, mic mixes (including some by Tom and Alan Meyerson), and you can really hear the 5 dynamic layers.

And remember, Pre Order includes access to a live masterclass with Junkie XL himself, teaching you how to fully utilize this next generation brass library.

More walkthrough videos coming soon! 

www.jxlbrass.com
http://www.getsine.com/ (www.getsine.com)


----------



## Raphioli

Wow, just wow....
Really love the sound. Really amazed by the dynamic range and the sound itself is perfect. So natural.
I would love to hear how the legatos sound too.

One thing I noticed though, regarding the solo trumpet starting around 3:45,
the pan shift a bit. Did anyone else notice this?
Its the same as the solo horn snippet we got to listen to a while ago.
I hope this gets fixed, because other than this, this library seems perfect.

All I need to listen to now are the legatos.
And I'm glad I've waited for the walkthrough. It was worth the wait! 

EDITED: I think I spotted legatos/slurs here and there in the video. Still would ike a detailed look at legatos!


----------



## JW

Preordered. Sounds great. Congrats OT and Junkie XL! Looking forward to getting my hands on this.


----------



## jules

Sounds epic ! Ppp, fff, wet wet wet, dry dry dry; Awsome sounds !


----------



## Consona

Congrats guys! Amazing tone! Hope the a la carte is still happening otherwise I'll be saving my money for a decade for the whole thing.


----------



## KEM

This... is... AMAZING!!!


----------



## turnerofwheels

Consona said:


> Congrats guys! Amazing tone! Hope the a la carte is still happening otherwise I'll be saving my money for a decade for the whole thing.



I plan to pick up a few patches if available (also depending on the pricing ratio compared to the full package) otherwise I guess I'll be in the same boat hah


----------



## blackzeroaudio

I thought the a la carte was in respect to what you wanted to download....not what you wanted to buy


----------



## AllanH

Wow - this sounds very good. Teldex and brass has imo always been an especially good combination, but this is a whole new level.


----------



## Eptesicus

blackzeroaudio said:


> I thought the a la carte was in respect to what you wanted to download....not what you wanted to buy



This. Have they ever said you could buy separate patches/instruments?


----------



## turnerofwheels

Eptesicus said:


> This. Have they ever said you could buy separate patches/instruments?



They announced this like almost a year ago--you'll notice in their newer walkthroughs the Sine player show the number of licensed instruments available in each library also


----------



## Zero&One

13.4GB RAM


----------



## jacobthestupendous

Using the mic merging feature, what would be the additional SSD consumed for each merged mix?


----------



## OT_Tobias

Around 1.something GB, depending on the size of one mic position.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

It really does sound nice. Don't understand what happened with the teaser


----------



## David Kudell

I got chills listening to the walkthrough, it sounds so good!


----------



## handz

Sounds really nice. 300gb ooof :O


----------



## paularthur

Sounds insanely good.


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Yeah, this sounds exactly like what I need. Keyswitches are mildly annoying, and no performance patch like in CSB, but - ! This sounds like the "Bigger, fatter, wider room, chorale-to-bombastic" brass library I was hoping it would be, with the great recording quality I've come to expect from Orchestral Tools! I'm especially happy with the wide variety of ensemble sizes and how consistent the articulations and dynamic ranges sound from solo instruments to a12s.

Uggggh, I just have no money to get it right now, and certainly won't have a lot of money to get it later, either. Can someone gift it to me, lol.

Also - Junkie XL Strings when???


----------



## jononotbono

It sounds amazing. I'm curious, where does Berlin Brass fit in with JXL Brass? I was going to buy that quite soon but I may get this now. What are the reasons someone would own both? I guess more arts in BB but this has 5 dynamic layers. Would it be possible to hear a demo with JXL Brass and Berlin Brass together?


----------



## VinRice

jononotbono said:


> It sounds amazing. I'm curious, where does Berlin Brass fit in with JXL Brass? I was going to buy that quite soon but I may get this now. What are the reasons someone would own both? I guess more arts in BB but this has 5 dynamic layers. Would it be possible to hear a demo with JXL Brass and Berlin Brass together?



BB is orchestral, JXL is film score. Different sound, different priorities.


----------



## KEM

Now I just need the JXL Strings and Woodwinds...


----------



## jononotbono

VinRice said:


> BB is orchestral, JXL is film score. Different sound, different priorities.



Yet, Berlin strings are orchestral.Found in so many AAA films so I’m still not sure what the difference is really.Guess I’ll have to get both 😂


----------



## ProfoundSilence

why would berlin brass be any less for film scores?

i'd really like to see how many actual scores use 12 horns compared to actual scores that use 4.


----------



## purple

ProfoundSilence said:


> why would berlin brass be any less for film scores?
> 
> i'd really like to see how many actual scores use 12 horns compared to actual scores that use 4.


To be honest, it didn't seem like much difference when he switched from the 6 horns to 12 horns patch in the video. Probably about the same sonic effect as just swapping the six players out would be, IMO. I think this library has more dynamic range than BB. I think what people mean is that BB doesn't go "over the top" like what is fairly common these days with trombones and cimbassi in the gutters farting out those low notes. JXL seems to do that as well as intimate chorale sound too.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

ProfoundSilence said:


> why would berlin brass be any less for film scores?
> 
> i'd really like to see how many actual scores use 12 horns compared to actual scores that use 4.



Agreed. I'm even doing custom jobs for trailer music with Berlin Brass (and a bit of layering with the Arks, allright 

JXLBrass is indeniably bigger sounding (higher dynamics have been sampled, and bigger sections) and probably quicker to work with (you're not programming for 11 soloists)


----------



## matthieuL

VinRice said:


> BB is orchestral, JXL is film score. Different sound, different priorities.


I would rather say BB is for orchestral and most film scores, JXL is for very-big-film scores.
One big difference is the lack of Solo Bass Trombone in JXL Brass, meaning it's not at all for the common (normal budget) orchestrations, so for me sadly it's not an universal library as advertised.


----------



## Raphioli

matthieuL said:


> One big difference is the lack of Solo Bass Trombone in JXL Brass



You could always try posting a request on this thread. They can't make any promises,
but I've seen Junkie XL take note of peoples request like a horn a2 section.
If this library is a financial success (which I think it would be), there is no reason not to develop an expansions for this library.


----------



## Eptesicus

ProfoundSilence said:


> why would berlin brass be any less for film scores?
> 
> i'd really like to see how many actual scores use 12 horns compared to actual scores that use 4.



Only 4 horns is a rarity these days (I know, as I see loads of the orchestrations). Very few big blockbusters only have 4.

6 and 8 is pretty common. 12 is rare.

Big trombone sections are very common (ie 3 tenors and 3 basses)


----------



## pawelmorytko

I was just about to browse the page for available instruments, but for some reason the instruments tab is showing me the specs of the library instead, anyone else got the same issue? https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/collections/8


----------



## staypuft

OT_Tobias said:


> Around 1.something GB, depending on the size of one mic position.



That´s acceptable. I wasn´t too confident about constantly writing gigabytes of data on my SSD for every new cue and mix, or tweaks to the current mix...at least SSDs are cheaper now


----------



## staypuft

ProfoundSilence said:


> i'd really like to see how many actual scores use 12 horns compared to actual scores that use 4.



Most common number is 6 for the loudest ones...i´ve done some BTyler gigs and he usually goes for 5 or 6 horns. 12horns is the equivalent of having lots of outboard gear in your studio to impress the braindead producers. To me it´s a gimmick and adds nothing but tinnitus to the equation.


----------



## MartinH.

staypuft said:


> That´s acceptable. I wasn´t too confident about constantly writing gigabytes of data on my SSD for every new cue and mix, or tweaks to the current mix...at least SSDs are cheaper now



I would assume a sample drive sees less writes than _any _os drive, even if you save a new mix almost every day. I think my OS SSD that I now switched with my sample SSD had 17 TB lifetime writes after a couple years of use.


----------



## staypuft

MartinH. said:


> I would assume a sample drive sees less writes than _any _os drive, even if you save a new mix almost every day. I think my OS SSD that I now switched with my sample SSD had 17 TB lifetime writes after a couple years of use.



Your comment made me curious...my OS SSD had 14TB lifetime writes after 3 years. My oldest sample SSD had 1.7TB after 6 years.
You´d need one mix per day for 3 years straight to write the same 1.7TB. Seems reasonable until all OT libraries are Sine compatible


----------



## Simon Ravn

This sounds f*cking amazing! Congrats guys! If the player works flawlessly (as I consider Kontakt does) and the programming is as good as the usual OT standard, this could be the new standard in brass libraries.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

staypuft said:


> Most common number is 6 for the loudest ones...i´ve done some BTyler gigs and he usually goes for 5 or 6 horns. 12horns is the equivalent of having lots of outboard gear in your studio to impress the braindead producers. To me it´s a gimmick and adds nothing but tinnitus to the equation.


I'm not sure why people keep responding to this, I was making the point because someone tried to say berlin brass "isn't for film score" - which I think is perpetuated by the very skewed notion that 12 horns "is" a film score sound, despite being quite rare in reality. 

I agree that 6 is pretty standard, makes triads a breeze.

personally I'm excited to finally have 6/3/3btb/1 as an option, although a solo bass bone and cimbasso are sorely missed. ( a la carte?? )


----------



## Raphioli

pawelmorytko said:


> I was just about to browse the page for available instruments, but for some reason the instruments tab is showing me the specs of the library instead, anyone else got the same issue? https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/collections/8



Can confirm its happening to me too.
Used Google Chrome, Safari and a Firefox.


----------



## Jediwario1

For articulation switching is it possible to setup multiple conditions?

For example: having all the shorts on one keyswitch and using cc1 to control the short type (0-60 is staccatissimo, 61-127 is staccato).


----------



## Adam Takacs

Eptesicus said:


> This. Have they ever said you could buy separate patches/instruments?


Yes.
In the keynote video.


----------



## Adam Takacs




----------



## John R Wilson

tadam said:


>




This does look really good and I like the idea that you can buy parts from different libraries instead of having to purchase the whole thing at once. 

However, I'm still awaiting a sale on the Inspires to get me into their products then I might look at buying parts from other libraries through this new store if need be. unfortunately I missed their recent NI sale on the inspires.


----------



## Frederik

staypuft said:


> 12horns is the equivalent of having lots of outboard gear in your studio to impress the braindead producers. To me it´s a gimmick and adds nothing but tinnitus to the equation.



Playing the a12 patch feels quite different to playing the a6. It's a bit like having more oscillators on a synth.. the sound becomes wider. I especially enjoy the lower dynamics on these bigger sections.


----------



## star.keys

OrchestralTools said:


> THE WALKTHROUGH HAS ARRIVED!!! Although some of you guys already noticed...
> 
> The first Junkie XL Brass WALKTHROUGH is live and we can’t wait to hear your thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> This Walkthrough delves into the mic positions, mic mixes (including some by Tom and Alan Meyerson), and you can really hear the 5 dynamic layers.
> 
> And remember, Pre Order includes access to a live masterclass with Junkie XL himself, teaching you how to fully utilize this next generation brass library.
> 
> More walkthrough videos coming soon!
> 
> www.jxlbrass.com
> http://www.getsine.com/ (www.getsine.com)




Ok, please accept my money... Pre-ordered!


----------



## 5Lives

Will demo tracks be posted on the OT site prior to the release date?


----------



## jacobthestupendous

It seems that piecemeal downloading (and purchasing) is a feature of the Sine player. If I am managing SSD space, can I delete microphone positions I decide I don't need and redownload them any time later when I do need them (even years later)? Thanks!


----------



## synthetic

Right on the fence on this, only because I've spent so much last month. Sounds amazing though. 

Do those trumpets go super flat in the walkthrough around 6:50??


----------



## Richard Bowling

synthetic said:


> Right on the fence on this, only because I've spent so much last month. Sounds amazing though.
> 
> Do those trumpets go super flat in the walkthrough around 6:50??



sounds like they get pitchy approaching the release of the last note in the phrase


----------



## Richard Bowling

even with the “pitchy-ness” this brass library sounds amazing and BRASSY. I look forward to some soft dynamics as well.


----------



## Dr.Quest

matthieuL said:


> I would rather say BB is for orchestral and most film scores, JXL is for very-big-film scores.
> One big difference is the lack of Solo Bass Trombone in JXL Brass, meaning it's not at all for the common (normal budget) orchestrations, so for me sadly it's not an universal library as advertised.


I’m curious where it was advertised as universal? Since it has Junkie XL’s name on it I always thought of it as a specialty library much like HZ strings and HZ percussion. Not that you can’t use any library for whatever you want.


----------



## jononotbono

Can’t see when the pre-order ends? Anyone know?


----------



## Richard Bowling

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that it ended on the release date—


----------



## Richard Bowling

From the first post by Orchestral Tools 

“The Junkie XL Brass Pre-Order Special will be available until the release of the collection, December 16. The normal price will be 749€ + VAT.”


----------



## jononotbono

Ok great. I’ll buy it on the 15th. Any sooner and it will cost me in over draft fees 😂


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jononotbono said:


> Ok great. I’ll buy it on the 15th. Any sooner and it will cost me in over draft fees 😂


tactical overdraft, it's still cheaper than missing pre-order probably XD


I'm sure it'll still be discounted after pre-order for those that are unsure, just wont be as deep


----------



## jononotbono

ProfoundSilence said:


> tactical overdraft, it's still cheaper than missing pre-order probably XD
> 
> 
> I'm sure it'll still be discounted after pre-order for those that are unsure, just wont be as deep


Yeah, this exactly why I have an overdraft. I was going to buy Berlin Brass first but the intro price for this is just too good to pass up. I’ve wanted to buy a new Brass library for ages so this is very welcome. Sounds so impressive!


----------



## Mike Fox

Would still like to know what was up with that first clip we all heard. Sounded nothing like the impressive walkthrough.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Mike Fox said:


> Would still like to know what was up with that first clip we all heard. Sounded nothing like the impressive walkthrough.


as brass gets loud it looses body, I think someone was just *too* used to maxing out cc1 on other libraries.


----------



## korruptkey

There doesn't seem to be any indication that SINE is NKS compatible. I wonder if this means crazy Native Instrument sales will end and Junkie XL Brass discount after this is unlikely.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

korruptkey said:


> There doesn't seem to be any indication that SINE is NKS compatible. I wonder if this means crazy Native Instrument sales will end and Junkie XL Brass discount after this is unlikely.


considering it's not released on kontakt the chance of a NI sale has gone done drastically. 

nks compatibility would certainly be an interesting development


----------



## Raphioli

korruptkey said:


> There doesn't seem to be any indication that SINE is NKS compatible. I wonder if this means crazy Native Instrument sales will end and Junkie XL Brass discount after this is unlikely.



Even if they made it NKS compatible, I doubt NI would do a sale on their website for a library which doesn't use their Kontakt player.

But OT has done their own sale. I think it was 40% off of their Berlin series.
So a sale is possible, but the pre-order price is already 40% off. I don't think OT would do a black friday sale more than that. The only time it was discounted more was the NKS sale and the Berlin series wasn't included.
So I'm assuming the pre-order price would be the cheapest it gets. At least for 3+ years.

As for the Ark series, you never now. Maybe you'll see a similar sale next year.
I'm glad I grabbed them during last years sale though.


----------



## Anthony N.Putson

Very nice Tom and the OT guys. Just need the right gig to come up now. Love OT stuff. BB, BWW, ARK 1 and 2, feels like I’m covered for brass but this defo sounds more...”ready to go all in one behemoth bastard” for filmy stuff. We are blessed in general having so many fantastic library creators in the wild.


----------



## star.keys

Hi @OrchestralTools team, would you mind clarifying when is JXL’s masterclass scheduled for live streaming please?


----------



## Burkhard

The low brass at 11:35 in Walkthrough 1 nearly makes me pee in my pants.


----------



## jononotbono

Currently watching the SINE walkthrough on the Mixer. Basically the Mic Merge is a game changer. It’s such a brilliant idea. One of the most innovative things to happen in Commercial sampling and is probably going to sway me into buying a lot more OT libraries (providing they are put into SINE). As an example, 1 Legato in Berlin Strings, with 5 mics on, equalled 5.4gb of ram with current settings. Mic Merge is just fantastic.

I also love the mixer view. Actually being able to see all Faders. And then opening them up to show all outputs. Pretty hyped with all this!


----------



## gjelul

Just as a reference / an example of what's achievable with a 'small' brass section:
4 Horns / 2 Trumpets / 3 Trombones:



One switch to an octave higher on Tpt 1 on the theme repeat is the only thing needed to make it sound 'huge.'


----------



## turnerofwheels

jononotbono said:


> Currently watching the SINE walkthrough on the Mixer. Basically the Mic Merge is a game changer. It’s such a brilliant idea. One of the most innovative things to happen in Commercial sampling and is probably going to sway me into buying a lot more OT libraries (providing they are put into SINE). As an example, 1 Legato in Berlin Strings, with 5 mics on, equalled 5.4gb of ram with current settings. Mic Merge is just fantastic.



It is. Now if we could just convince SF to do this for HZS. I loaded up some instances (enough to write string section) of the full articulations after the update and with three mics enabled, bye 40GB of ram  I have a feeling that's what it's going to be like with the next generation of sample libraries...


----------



## purple

gjelul said:


> Just as a reference / an example of what's achievable with a 'small' brass section:
> 4 Horns / 2 Trumpets / 3 Trombones:
> 
> 
> 
> One switch to an octave higher on Tpt 1 on the theme repeat is the only thing needed to make it sound 'huge.'




Here's just a low brass section. Many examples in this video of them getting really "big"

Often the way to get a "bigger" sound is to play together rather than add more people. 4 horns in tune and blending will sound bigger and louder to a listener than 8 horns that are not rhythmically tight and are not blending well. That being said, it certainly does feel good to virtually control a patch with 12 horns hehe.


----------



## jononotbono

SHANE TURNER said:


> It is. Now if we could just convince SF to do this for HZS. I loaded up some instances (enough to write string section) of the full articulations after the update and with three mics enabled, bye 40GB of ram  I have a feeling that's what it's going to be like with the next generation of sample libraries...



Im pretty sure Mic merging has been a thing for years. In one man’s studio. I’m glad it’s finally commercially out there. It is absolutely brilliant. I’m liking the look and functionality of SINE a lot! I also love how simple it is to change the arts from Keyswitches, CC, separate midi channels.


----------



## NoamL

Yes, there's an interview out there where Mark Wherry (@Rctec 's tech guy) talks about folding down mics inside his custom sampler. Wise when you've got 30 mics up!


----------



## jononotbono

NoamL said:


> Yes, there's an interview out there where Mark Wherry (@Rctec 's tech guy) talks about folding down mics inside his custom sampler. Wise when you've got 30 mics up!



Yeah, I believe HZs library has 33 mics. But that's only from a comment made online a while ago. I believe there's functionality to resample the samples too. So, basically, composers using "that" library can make it sound individual to them. This also sounds amazing.


----------



## gjelul

purple said:


> Here's just a low brass section. Many examples in this video of them getting really "big"
> 
> Often the way to get a "bigger" sound is to play together rather than add more people. 4 horns in tune and blending will sound bigger and louder to a listener than 8 horns that are not rhythmically tight and are not blending well. That being said, it certainly does feel good to virtually control a patch with 12 horns hehe.






+ 1 on all of the above... 

And then proper Brs writing and orchestration.


----------



## Eptesicus

The more i'm thinking about it, the more i'm going off the idea of this library. Whilst the walkthrough sounded good. Did it really sound loads better than the other good brass libraries we have out there?

What does this offer beyond a silly amount of mic positions ? It doesn't have poly legato, it doesn't have single instruments or easily divisible sections. From what i have heard, it doesn't make any breakthroughs in legato (and in fact some of the legato sounds a bit dodgy in places) or connections between different articulations etc.

I know this sounds a bit negative, but its very expensive, and im not sure its pushing things forward enough or introducing anything brilliantly new to warrant the price.

Yes, the mic merge feature sounds cool, but i cant think of anything else that is that innovative about it.


----------



## KEM

Eptesicus said:


> The more i'm thinking about it, the more i'm going off the idea of this library. Whilst the walkthrough sounded good. Did it really sound loads better than the other good brass libraries we have out there?



Yes


----------



## Zero&One

Eptesicus said:


> The more i'm thinking about it, the more i'm going off the idea of this library. Whilst the walkthrough sounded good. Did it really sound loads better than the other good brass libraries we have out there?



I copied the midi they used in the examples. Loaded up my brass, got my answer to this question.
It's a good exercise I find, and makes you appreciate what you already have.


----------



## Eptesicus

James H said:


> I copied the midi they used in the examples. Loaded up my brass, got my answer to this question.
> It's a good exercise I find, and makes you appreciate what you already have.



By that do you mean your existing libraries sounded just as good?


----------



## gjelul

Eptesicus said:


> By that do you mean your existing libraries sounded just as good?



I believe that's exactly what JamesH is saying. Why the surprise?
There is at least 4-5 libraries out there that are very good (Spitfire, Cinesamples, Berlin, etc., etc.)

Do they have 5 dynamic layers? No. 
Are they made by JXL? No. 
Do they cost 499? Yes / No. 

Do they sound real good if you're after that specific sound and you're willing to put in the time? Absolutely, Yes!

The new library is not even out yet, no one can have a clear picture of what's possible with it. 

Even then, some will like it, some will pass on it.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

if you're listening to the same demo, yes this sounds better. 

it has baby smooth crossfades, and its sampled dynamics beat literally anything on the market. Some of the tightest shorts as well based on the few quick repetitions I heard, and 4 lengths of shorts. 

it basically combines the strengths of the berlin brass ensembles warm golden low and mid dynamics, ark 1s fff, csb's smooth crossfades and articulation consistency, and cinebrass/CSs mixed mic resource saving. 

and ofcourse sound wise, the only stage that I think is comparable sonically is MGM Sony(although I still prefer brass in teldex)

it's also got a12 sections, which has been limited to cinebrass 12 horns, and stuff like trailer brass, none of which can do soft. 

it's also got a3 bass bones and a3 cimbassi which again are on the rare side, and none as consistently sampled or as versatile dynamically.


----------



## purple

Yes, maybe it doesn't have butter-smooth legato like CSB, but the tone is IMO unmatched except BB, and the dynamic range is far beyond anything else on the market. Those trombones are really something. Of course tone is very subjective, but it feels to me like berlin brass 2 in many ways. At that price-point, it's a pretty good deal, and at the pre-oder price even better. There is no other library with that amount of detail, patches, and mics at that price, as MSB and BB are $800.


----------



## Seiichirou Kubo

Why is the pre-order period long?
Why is less information provided? 
The answer is simple.
The products are still unfinished and they may be developing while receiving money.

New player? -Yes
Less information? -Yes
Long pre-order period -Yes
Expensive? -Yes
Do they work with a celebrity? -Yes(Just kidding)


----------



## Seiichirou Kubo

I think the risk is too high. 
I was considering buying, but I reconsidered it.


----------



## NoamL

staypuft said:


> Most common number is 6 for the loudest ones...i´ve done some BTyler gigs and he usually goes for 5 or 6 horns. 12horns is the equivalent of having lots of outboard gear in your studio to impress the braindead producers. To me it´s a gimmick and adds nothing but tinnitus to the equation.



Oh cool! Are you a session player? or a copyist perhaps?


----------



## richard kurek

when i dont jump on pre sales i regret it later on the libraries i want, this one sounds like a powerhouse so i did make the purchase ,glad i just added another SSD


----------



## Noeticus

Gee, no love for AudioBro MSB here?


----------



## bvaughn0402

They've been working on the player for about a year. Remember they announced it and demoed it almost a year ago. I'm sure it isn't perfect and will need work. But they must have been working on it since then quite a bit.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Seiichirou Kubo said:


> I think the risk is too high.
> I was considering buying, but I reconsidered it.





Noeticus said:


> Gee, no love for AudioBro MSB here?



to he fair that's like going to a mcdonalds thread and talking about Burger King. 

MSB is a very different library, and while it has some good stuff, its sonically very different and center panned with no ensembles sampled but inidivudal instruments instead


----------



## Seiichirou Kubo

sorry,I feel I said too much.
It is not a lie that I was expecting a new product.

They said,"You will be able to buy a la carte".However,It seems that it cannot be used with JXLB.
It should have been the main function of the new software.  
(Maybe it will be possible after the pre-order period is over?)
Another complaint is that they are not doing public testing. 
Whatever happens will be the responsibility of the person who bought it.


----------



## bvaughn0402

I would bet after a period of time, all new launches will be available a la carte. I would bet initially not ... but that is just a guess.


----------



## Adam Takacs

bvaughn0402 said:


> I would bet after a period of time, all new launches will be available a la carte. I would bet initially not ... but that is just a guess.


That's right


----------



## Raphioli

Seiichirou Kubo said:


> Why is the pre-order period long?



I don't know whats negative about a long pre-order period.
I'm personally fine with a long pre-order period.
The only thing that bothered me was a long pre-order period with no demos or walkthrough for the 1st 2 weeks, which did give me an impression that the product still needs fixes like you were saying.
I hope they fix the stereo image issue for some of the samples. I think its fixable. Its a matter of if OT is wiling to fix it or not. And this library definitely deserves that fix, since the other aspects of it are so good.

Oh, and good thing we finally have a quality walkthrough. I was a bit worried if that the 1st walkthrough might become available like 2 or 3 days before the release date.
I'm looking forward to the next one too! I really want to listen to a detailed video featuring legatos.
Also maybe manual crescendos for all patches would be nice to listen to the cross fades for all sections.
They should have called it "Power Dynamics" btw (joke of course )


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Raphioli said:


> I don't know whats negative about a long pre-order period.
> I'm personally fine with a long pre-order period.
> The only thing that bothered me was a long pre-order period with no demos or walkthrough for the 1st 2 weeks, which did give me an impression that the product still needs fixes like you were saying.
> I hope they fix the stereo image issue for some of the samples. I think its fixable. Its a matter of if OT is wiling to fix it or not. And this library definitely deserves that fix, since the other aspects of it are so good.
> 
> Oh, and good thing we finally have a quality walkthrough. I was a bit worried if that the 1st walkthrough might become available like 2 or 3 days before the release date.
> I'm looking forward to the next one too! I really want to listen to a detailed video featuring legatos.
> Also maybe manual crescendos for all patches would be nice to listen to the cross fades for all sections.
> They should have called it "Power Dynamics" btw (joke of course )



joke never gets old. "Power-Merge" seems like it's an okay feature namr


----------



## Loïc D

Does anyone know if mutes will be added later ? (as paid extension I suppose).


----------



## Eptesicus

Raphioli said:


> I don't know whats negative about a long pre-order period.
> I'm personally fine with a long pre-order period.
> The only thing that bothered me was a long pre-order period with no demos or walkthrough for the 1st 2 weeks, which did give me an impression that the product still needs fixes like you were saying.
> I hope they fix the stereo image issue for some of the samples. I think its fixable. Its a matter of if OT is wiling to fix it or not. And this library definitely deserves that fix, since the other aspects of it are so good.
> 
> Oh, and good thing we finally have a quality walkthrough. I was a bit worried if that the 1st walkthrough might become available like 2 or 3 days before the release date.
> I'm looking forward to the next one too! I really want to listen to a detailed video featuring legatos.
> Also maybe manual crescendos for all patches would be nice to listen to the cross fades for all sections.
> They should have called it "Power Dynamics" btw (joke of course )




I literally have no idea why anyone has bought it already and isn't just waiting to just before release. Why part with your money for a month for no reason?

It isn't like they will run out of stock. 

I understand why people preorder somethings, especially if there is a risk stock will be low, or money doesnt get taken until dispatch etc.

I find the concept very odd in this case though.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Eptesicus said:


> I literally have no idea why anyone has bought it already and isn't just waiting to just before release. Why part with your money for a month for no reason?
> 
> It isn't like they will run out of stock.
> 
> I find the concept very odd...


or you could a.) miss the pre order and pat more money. 

if you're planning on buying it then not preordering is wasting money for no reason. 

if you're planning on buying it, it's not like you were going to spend that money on something else.


----------



## Eptesicus

ProfoundSilence said:


> or you could a.) miss the pre order and pat more money.
> 
> if you're planning on buying it then not preordering is wasting money for no reason.
> 
> if you're planning on buying it, it's not like you were going to spend that money on something else.



But why pay a month before release. How would you miss it? We know when the preorder price ends.

I just dont know why everyone isn't just buying it on the 15th, that's all.


----------



## ridgero

The question is: How will it blend with libraries from other companies?

Honestly: This library sounds awesome, but I still want to use my other libraries (SCS/BBC etc...)


----------



## Henning

Lovely sound and great options with the mic positions. But in the walkthrough I also see a lot of switching between different articulations to make it sound believable. I have come to love the more performant patches of certain developers (you know who I mean). So I wonder if it would be possible for OT to also add some kind of performance patches with some clever scripting.


----------



## jamwerks

bvaughn0402 said:


> They've been working on the player for about a year.


Probably 3 or 4 years. Something like that takes a long time and lots of money.


----------



## germancomponist

OrchestralTools said:


> THE WALKTHROUGH HAS ARRIVED!!! Although some of you guys already noticed...
> 
> The first Junkie XL Brass WALKTHROUGH is live and we can’t wait to hear your thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> This Walkthrough delves into the mic positions, mic mixes (including some by Tom and Alan Meyerson), and you can really hear the 5 dynamic layers.




What a great sounding brass library! Also in this vid we all can see and listen how important the different mic positions are. Very good!

From 6.41 on ..., 7.00 till 7.17 I hear some tuning issues, but I like it as is. This makes the library more lively. (good meant)

Congrats!

-G


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Henning said:


> Lovely sound and great options with the mic positions. But in the walkthrough I also see a lot of switching between different articulations to make it sound believable. I have come to love the more performant patches of certain developers (you know who I mean). So I wonder if it would be possible for OT to also add some kind of performance patches with some clever scripting.




in most cases the recurring theme is the same, requires recording in dry/close rooms and all sorts of phase aligning. 

There are plenty or playable libraries, and the two paths dont really intersect.

either the sound is great but takes some articulation management to make phrases, or its playable but sounds dull and flat so you spend all your time trying to make it sound good. 

pick your poison


----------



## Eptesicus

germancomponist said:


> What a great sounding brass library! Also in this vid we all can see and listen how important the different mic positions are. Very good!
> 
> From 6.41 on ..., 7.00 till 7.17 I hear some tuning issues, but I like it as is. This makes the library more lively. (good meant)
> 
> Congrats!
> 
> -G



I though that was an intentional pitch bend at first?

Surely pitch change at the end of the phrase is intentional....? If not, that is poor.


----------



## Henning

ProfoundSilence said:


> in most cases the recurring theme is the same, requires recording in dry/close rooms and all sorts of phase aligning.
> 
> There are plenty or playable libraries, and the two paths dont really intersect.
> 
> either the sound is great but takes some articulation management to make phrases, or its playable but sounds dull and flat so you spend all your time trying to make it sound good.
> 
> pick your poison


I was actually thinking more along the lines of Performance Samples or Musical Sampling. Highly performant patches without key switching and a great sound. 
Something like these as performance patches in JXL Brass would win me over.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Henning said:


> I was actually thinking more along the lines of Performance Samples or Musical Sampling. Highly performant patches without key switching and a great sound.
> Something like these as performance patches in JXL Brass would win me over.




those aren't really realistic sounding in the first place. None of those have legato, and they are just attacks layered with sustains, something you could likely build with many kontakt brass libraries if you can get under the hood to adjust the asdr and stack a few articulations

to clarify, it's simply limited in the types of phrasing it can play - although the various attack type sustains are also available in other libraries that use articulations - and the lengths of shorts again are all often provided. These shorts are also much more natural as well, because no matter how good your mod wheel game is, you're probably not going to produce the same difference between an 8th and a 16th played in live vs an actual recorded staccato vs staccatissimo. 

I do very much enjoy playable libraries, but if you were going to try to produce a finished product - it'll be a massive headache to get it to sound good unless you spend a mountain of time getting it to sound right. Caspian/adventure brass are a little easier to get sounding full/decent but again - they can't really do pretty common techniques.


----------



## Zero&One

Henning said:


> I was actually thinking more along the lines of Performance Samples or Musical Sampling. Highly performant patches without key switching and a great sound.
> Something like these as performance patches in JXL Brass would win me over.



Like the Spitfire performance patches? Yeah, would be nice and maybe a future addition?
I don't think the player is capable of it in it's current release, might see different in later videos? 
Using Vienna Instruments it's relatively easy to do this, as you can setup different articulations by velocity or speed. So you can go from legato -> trem -> pizz for eg within one pass just by velocity. But it has years of development over sine, but future updates n all?


----------



## Raphioli

James H said:


> Using Vienna Instruments it's relatively easy to do this, as you can setup different articulations by velocity or speed. So you can go from legato -> trem -> pizz for eg within one pass just by velocity.



I'm not sure, but maybe the "Poly Maps (?)" feature could cover this.


----------



## Zero&One

Raphioli said:


> I'm not sure, but maybe the "Poly Maps (?)" feature could cover this.



That looks exactly like it 
I much prefer this when writing, as I'm hopeless with keyswitches. Nice find!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

James H said:


> That looks exactly like it
> I much prefer this when writing, as I'm hopeless with keyswitches. Nice find!


all you have to do is write with a sustain patch and then change the articulations afterwards - you're overthinking it. I'm terrible at keyboard even without keyswitches being involved


----------



## Zero&One

ProfoundSilence said:


> all you have to do is write with a sustain patch and then change the articulations afterwards - you're overthinking it. I'm terrible at keyboard even without keyswitches being involved



lol, I have 10 thumbs so I feel your pain. I prefer performance patches though, it write differently. If I even stick with legato I'll write the same old crap over and over. These help me make more fancy crap... over and over.
But these Poly maps seem to be the ticket


----------



## Henning

ProfoundSilence said:


> those aren't really realistic sounding in the first place. None of those have legato, and they are just attacks layered with sustains, something you could likely build with many kontakt brass libraries if you can get under the hood to adjust the asdr and stack a few articulations
> 
> to clarify, it's simply limited in the types of phrasing it can play - although the various attack type sustains are also available in other libraries that use articulations - and the lengths of shorts again are all often provided. These shorts are also much more natural as well, because no matter how good your mod wheel game is, you're probably not going to produce the same difference between an 8th and a 16th played in live vs an actual recorded staccato vs staccatissimo.
> 
> I do very much enjoy playable libraries, but if you were going to try to produce a finished product - it'll be a massive headache to get it to sound good unless you spend a mountain of time getting it to sound right. Caspian/adventure brass are a little easier to get sounding full/decent but again - they can't really do pretty common techniques.


Well, to each his own. Playable patches like the ones I mentioned are huge timesavers for me. It's so tedious to put in the keyswitches while on the other hand it's so easy to just play in a line with a breath controller and be done with it. And they do sound great when they are used in the right context. But then again I like to play in stuff live. Anyway it was a suggestion/question towards OT. It would be a selling point for customer's like me.


----------



## axb312

@OrchestralTools Donno if this has been asked before but,

Now that you have your own player and I assume future libraries will be built in this player, will you allow license transfers and refunds?

Also, how many round robins do the shorts have? And do we have different attack options for the legato/sustain?


----------



## Øivind

Has any owner of the Inspire series been able to use their discount vochers on the new website? Mine only gives me "Invalid voucher" error.

Tried to contact support but not received an answer yet.


----------



## matthieuL

It seems that OT and JXL don't answer to any more questions on the different threads.
Disappointing...


----------



## xanderscores

oivind_rosvold said:


> Has any owner of the Inspire series been able to use their discount vochers on the new website? Mine only gives me "Invalid voucher" error.
> 
> Tried to contact support but not received an answer yet.



Tobias at support seems rather busy these days, but so far no inquiry of mine has gone unanswered.
As I wrote in another thread, I was told the discounts are still valid, but the website doesn't support them at the time being. Support has ways of activating the discount for you so that the website accepts it. Tobias did so with my -50 one. I'm still waiting for my -100 one to be activated, though. (I'm strongly considering Berlin Strings and already dreaming of making string arrangements... no kidding!)


----------



## Øivind

xanderscores said:


> Tobias at support seems rather busy these days, but so far no inquiry of mine has gone unanswered.
> As I wrote in another thread, I was told the discounts are still valid, but the website doesn't support them at the time being. Support has ways of activating the discount for you so that the website accepts it. Tobias did so with my -50 one. I'm still waiting for my -100 one to be activated, though. (I'm strongly considering Berlin Strings and already dreaming of making string arrangements... no kidding!)



Awesome, thanks for the info


----------



## 5Lives

Are EDU discounts added on top of the pre-order price?


----------



## Dr.Quest

How are OT licenses for Sine tied to your computer? I have 2 setups I need to use them on it 2 locations. iLok or something else?
[FOUND IT]* It’s all explained in Sine walkthrough #2. Looks like it might be similar to Plugin Alliance which I like. No iLok, just a quick authorize then you don’t need to be online after that. Sounds reasonable.*


----------



## Raphioli

5Lives said:


> Are EDU discounts added on top of the pre-order price?


 






EDU Discounts - Orchestral Tools Helpdesk


Do you offer educational discounts? Yes, we offer a 40% EDU discount for students and teachers under the following circumstances: Students - You study in reside




orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com






> Please note that the EDU discount can not be combined with any other discounts (pre-order, introductory pricing, vouchers ...).


----------



## Mike Fox

ProfoundSilence said:


> those aren't really realistic sounding in the first place.



Hm...

I'd say they're realistic enough to get the job done. In fact, if i was looking to score a classic adventure type of piece, I'd definitely turn to Adventure Brass/Strings. Not only is the playability incredibly easy, but the tone is near perfect for that style. Same with Trailer Strings. They're some of the best strings for doing epic pieces where you need the strings to cut through. 

Niche? Sure. But not realistic enough? Couldn't disagree more! 

Check out this piece from Mike Verta where he uses Adventure Strings. It's pretty damn impressive.


----------



## Real JXL

ridgero said:


> The question is: How will it blend with libraries from other companies?
> 
> Honestly: This library sounds awesome, but I still want to use my other libraries (SCS/BBC etc...)



I use it among many different libraries.... In my case I mix JXL brass with cinematic strings and Berlin strings


----------



## ridgero

Real JXL said:


> I use it among many different libraries.... In my case I mix JXL brass with cinematic strings and Berlin strings



Thanks for that


----------



## Real JXL

Henning said:


> Lovely sound and great options with the mic positions. But in the walkthrough I also see a lot of switching between different articulations to make it sound believable. I have come to love the more performant patches of certain developers (you know who I mean). So I wonder if it would be possible for OT to also add some kind of performance patches with some clever scripting.



Switching between articulations makes it more realistic. Having that said; playing with patch number one for instance; legato horns for instance gets it almost done what ever you play... I have the keyswitches setup in my expression map in Cubase... it’s a breeze to program different articulations or try different ones... also since the library is super consistent you can drag one midipart to a different track for doubling and you’re done! For instance choral sections I spend time on getting performance right on the horns on a triad.. then I copy that to trumpets; tenors; bass bones; cimbasso and Tuba... all will react to the same keyswitches or velocity or however you want to switch... Now I just need to change the notes and voicings in different midi parts and I’m done!

Makes sense?


----------



## ridgero

How long will the library cost 499 Euros?


----------



## Henning

Real JXL said:


> Switching between articulations makes it more realistic. Having that said; playing with patch number one for instance; legato horns for instance gets it almost done what ever you play... I have the keyswitches setup in my expression map in Cubase... it’s a breeze to program different articulations or try different ones... also since the library is super consistent you can drag one midipart to a different track for doubling and you’re done! For instance choral sections I spend time on getting performance right on the horns on a triad.. then I copy that to trumpets; tenors; bass bones; cimbasso and Tuba... all will react to the same keyswitches or velocity or however you want to switch... Now I just need to change the notes and voicings in different midi parts and I’m done!
> 
> Makes sense?


Thanks a lot, Tom, for getting back to me on this! Your opinion definitely helped!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

ridgero said:


> How long will the library cost 499 Euros?



I assume it's just a pre-order. that's kind of what pre-order means.

it always goes up after the pre-order but it'll still be some kind of introductory price.

Speaking of pre-order, can I pay an extra 50$ to get it now???

got me like;


----------



## ridgero

ProfoundSilence said:


> I assume it's just a pre-order. that's kind of what pre-order means.
> 
> it always goes up after the pre-order but it'll still be some kind of introductory price.



What does Pre-Order mean nowadays?

I pre ordered "Time" and it stayed for the same price afer the release for quiet a long time.


----------



## gjelul

Real JXL said:


> Switching between articulations makes it more realistic. Having that said; playing with patch number one for instance; legato horns for instance gets it almost done what ever you play... I have the keyswitches setup in my expression map in Cubase... it’s a breeze to program different articulations or try different ones... also since the library is super consistent you can drag one midipart to a different track for doubling and you’re done! For instance choral sections I spend time on getting performance right on the horns on a triad.. then I copy that to trumpets; tenors; bass bones; cimbasso and Tuba... all will react to the same keyswitches or velocity or however you want to switch... Now I just need to change the notes and voicings in different midi parts and I’m done!
> 
> Makes sense?




This one - consistency - is one of the biggest things this library has imo. 
Worth the 499 just for that.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

well while we have tom here again, I urge OT and JXL to record separate players for woodwinds with the same spirit as JXL brass

that organ effect is far worse with woodwinds than other sections when using samples. And having realistic phrases programmed with brass and woodwinds being interchangeable would be awesome! I'm attempting to toy with setting up BWW legacy with a similar keyswitch layout in advance


----------



## Raphioli

ridgero said:


> What does Pre-Order mean nowadays?
> 
> I pre ordered "Time" and it stayed for the same price afer the release for quiet a long time.




The initial post by OT does explicitly state it'll be available until the release on the 16th.
So to be safe, I'd say if you want to purchase it at the pre-order price, do it till the 15th.


OrchestralTools said:


> *The Junkie XL Brass Pre-Order Special* will be available until the release of the collection, December 16. The normal price will be 749€ + VAT.



Of course, besides the pre-order price, they've always had an introductory price as well, after the release.
Probably like 50 or 100 euros more than the pre-order price.


----------



## Denkii

Does anyone know if it will be possible to port their Kontakt libraries over into Sine that were bought through a NI-sale?


----------



## richard kurek

Denkii said:


> Does anyone know if it will be possible to port their Kontakt libraries over into Sine that were bought through a NI-sale?


as i read they will do this but not right away


----------



## OrchestralTools

Switching articulations is one thing.
Merging, stacking and crossfading them is another!
Episode 5 of our SINE video series dives into Polymaps, so you can see for yourself the possibilities SINE opens up.




We’ve been reading all your comments here and on Facebook and YouTube so will try to answer some here.
But also don’t forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel and be the first to watch the next/penultimate episode of our SINE series.
Just to answer some of your questions:

You can install SINE on 3 different machines!
Other OT libraries will be added to SINE over the next few months. We’ll let you know as soon as they’re available. SINE is really going to transform what you can do with those libraries. 
Junkie XL Brass comes with Download a-la-carte, and when we add our other libraries to SINE this will then be available with them too.

Also more walkthroughs of Junkie XL Brass are coming very soon as we also bring our SINE video series to an end 

Thanks so much for your comments guys, if you have any questions please comment we are working on something to answer all your questions so keep ‘em coming!!

Thanks,

The OT Team

http://www.getsine.com/ (www.getsine.com)


----------



## AdamKmusic

Damn that polymaps is really damn cool!


----------



## Drundfunk

OrchestralTools said:


> Junkie XL Brass comes with Download a-la-carte


 Is it just downloading a-la-carte or also purchasing a-la-carte. That's something I'm still confused about. Let's say for example I'm only interested in the 12 horns patch from JXL Brass, can I buy only this one patch? Or do I buy the whole JXL Brass and then can decide which patch and which microphone positions I want to install? (downloading a-la-carte).


----------



## axb312

OrchestralTools said:


> Switching articulations is one thing.
> Merging, stacking and crossfading them is another!
> Episode 5 of our SINE video series dives into Polymaps, so you can see for yourself the possibilities SINE opens up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We’ve been reading all your comments here and on Facebook and YouTube so will try to answer some here.
> But also don’t forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel and be the first to watch the next/penultimate episode of our SINE series.
> Just to answer some of your questions:
> 
> You can install SINE on 3 different machines!
> Other OT libraries will be added to SINE over the next few months. We’ll let you know as soon as they’re available. SINE is really going to transform what you can do with those libraries.
> Junkie XL Brass comes with Download a-la-carte, and when we add our other libraries to SINE this will then be available with them too.
> 
> Also more walkthroughs of Junkie XL Brass are coming very soon as we also bring our SINE video series to an end
> 
> Thanks so much for your comments guys, if you have any questions please comment we are working on something to answer all your questions so keep ‘em coming!!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> The OT Team
> 
> http://www.getsine.com/ (www.getsine.com)



@OrchestralTools Donno if this has been asked before but,

Now that you have your own player and I assume future libraries will be built in this player, will you allow license transfers and refunds?

Also, how many round robins do the shorts have? And do we have different attack options for the legato/sustain?


----------



## 5Lives

AdamKmusic said:


> Damn that polymaps is really damn cool!



Porting over functionality from their Capsule player - certainly nice and flexible. CineSample's interface also allows something similar (plus the ability to use sustain pedal to switch, which I'm not sure is available in SINE).


----------



## Real JXL

axb312 said:


> @OrchestralTools Donno if this has been asked before but,
> 
> Now that you have your own player and I assume future libraries will be built in this player, will you allow license transfers and refunds?
> 
> Also, how many round robins do the shorts have? And do we have different attack options for the legato/sustain?




The sustains have two attacks possible... fast and slow... but changing between the two plus the marcato’s and the sfz you get amazing real sound! All of these in 5 dyn layers... Also there are 8 round robins on all shorts and marcato’s... then you can add fake RR as well if you want... plus functions like RR reset on new notes or continue... I have been able to program fast staccatissimo’s that function like double or tripple tongue without the machine gun effects!! Demo’s super soon!!!


----------



## Real JXL

Stay tuned! Demo’s coming really soon plus more!! And please continue asking questions! Also there will be a youtube live when I do a run through the library! Stay tuned!


----------



## KEM

Real JXL said:


> Stay tuned! Demo’s coming really soon plus more!! And please continue asking questions! Also there will be a youtube live when I do a run through the library! Stay tuned!



You’ve got me so excited for the JXL Strings now!! Thank you so much for giving us this product, Tom! I can’t wait to get my hands on it!


----------



## axb312

Real JXL said:


> The sustains have two attacks possible... fast and slow... but changing between the two plus the marcato’s and the sfz you get amazing real sound! All of these in 5 dyn layers... Also there are 8 round robins on all shorts and marcato’s... then you can add fake RR as well if you want... plus functions like RR reset on new notes or continue... I have been able to program fast staccatissimo’s that function like double or tripple tongue without the machine gun effects!! Demo’s super soon!!!


Thank you!


----------



## Jack Weaver

I’d love to see how you can program that double and triple tonguing. 

.


----------



## Real JXL

KEM said:


> You’ve got me so excited for the JXL Strings now!! Thank you so much for giving us this product, Tom! I can’t wait to get my hands on it!



My idea was actually JXL triangle and recorder as a library! No?


----------



## jononotbono

I’m just curious about the sampling process. This has 5 dynamic Layers. Would you consider adding more in the future and releasing them as a paid update?

Recently, the HZ Strings update got released and it uses 21 dynamic layers on the Spiccatissimos and quite frankly they sound phenomenal. It’s a staggering number of Dynamic layers. Sorry to mention a library by another dev in your thread but the fact you have chosen to do what nobody commercially has and recorded 5 dynamic layers, I’m just curious about the process of how you decide on which dynamic layers end up in the library (perhaps there’s a threshold where an Instruments timbre changes and cross fades into the next more smoothly?) and how much work it is to add more layers to an existing library? I personally would definitely pay for updates for things like this as I’m under no illusion it’s an expensive game producing something like this.

On another note, perhaps I should wait and use it first before making suggestions on how to make it better 😂


----------



## purple

Mike Fox said:


> Hm...
> 
> I'd say they're realistic enough to get the job done. In fact, if i was looking to score a classic adventure type of piece, I'd definitely turn to Adventure Brass/Strings. Not only is the playability incredibly easy, but the tone is near perfect for that style. Same with Trailer Strings. They're some of the best strings for doing epic pieces where you need the strings to cut through.
> 
> Niche? Sure. But not realistic enough? Couldn't disagree more!
> 
> Check out this piece from Mike Verta where he uses Adventure Strings. It's pretty damn impressive.




That doesn't really sound realistic at all. For a sketching tool, sure but for a final product I would want a library with more stuff to be tweaked. I can just use some sort of sustain patch anyways for sketching. That said, if you're someone like Mike Verta you can probably get away with it anyways.


----------



## Real JXL

jononotbono said:


> I’m just curious about the sampling process. This has 5 dynamic Layers. Would you consider adding more in the future and releasing them as a paid update?
> 
> Recently, the HZ Strings update got released and it uses 21 dynamic layers on the Spiccatissimos and quite frankly they sound phenomenal. It’s a staggering number of Dynamic layers. Sorry to mention a library by another dev in your thread but the fact you have chosen to do what nobody commercially has and recorded 5 dynamic layers, I’m just curious about the process of how you decide on which dynamic layers end up in the library (perhaps there’s a threshold where an Instruments timbre changes and cross fades into the next more smoothly?) and how much work it is to add more layers to an existing library? I personally would definitely pay for updates for things like this as I’m under no illusion it’s an expensive game producing something like this.
> 
> On another note, perhaps I should wait and use it first before making suggestions on how to make it better 😂




Really good question! For brass or any instruments you have to consider how many dynamic colors that instrument actually has besides becoming louder... things to consider are phasing when moving into a new layer, but mostly round robins... more RR give you a natural sound. Not necessarily 21 velocity layers. I mean I am a good drummer but to record 21 dynamic layers on command? And then with 40 other drummers in the room figuring out the same thing? It’s really admirable to do 21 velocity layers BUT RR is key to natural sound... Also I wanted absolute consistency through out each instrument... not 6 layers for horns: 8 for tenors:2 for tuba etc etc... also mp for horns IS mp for trumpets and IS mp for tenors... very very consistent...let me know if that makes sense!


----------



## artinro

Hey Tom @Real JXL , wondering if you could elaborate a bit on how you worked on crossfades. I notice there are no ”recorded” dynamics like cresc, decresc. etc... as in Berlin Brass. Do you feel as though your dynamics and crossfades in this library are robust enough to rival actual recorded dynamic patches?


----------



## Real JXL

artinro said:


> Hey Tom @Real JXL , wondering if you could elaborate a bit on how you worked on crossfades. I notice there are no ”recorded” dynamics like cresc, decresc. etc... as in Berlin Brass. Do you feel as though your dynamics and crossfades in this library are robust enough to rival actual recorded dynamic patches?



Yes I do! And thank you for asking! Because its an important question. While doing changes on cues for movies I constantly have to re adjust tempo and meter... fixed recording are a nuisance to me because of that! That’s why we did 5 dynamic layers for instance... you can swell up quick and come down slow or create your own sfz....


----------



## KEM

Real JXL said:


> My idea was actually JXL triangle and recorder as a library! No?



Hey now... if you make it, I’ll buy it!!


----------



## artinro

Real JXL said:


> Yes I do! And thank you for asking! Because its an important question. While doing changes on cues for movies I constantly have to re adjust tempo and meter... fixed recording are a nuisance to me because of that! That’s why we did 5 dynamic layers for instance... you can swell up quick and come down slow or create your own sfz....



Hey, thanks for the reply @Real JXL. I appreciate your presence here. I do agree about timings with prerecorded patches. That’s great to hear and quite exciting. Just to clarify, even with the 5 layers, there’s always that concern about phasing between layers. So is that something you and the team have addressed in a better way? Thanks again.


----------



## Mike Fox

purple said:


> That doesn't really sound realistic at all. For a sketching tool, sure but for a final product I would want a library with more stuff to be tweaked. I can just use some sort of sustain patch anyways for sketching. That said, if you're someone like Mike Verta you can probably get away with it anyways.


Like i said, if i was going for that niche, old fashioned swashbuckling/adventure vibe, I would have no problem reaching for Adventure Strings. It's "realistic enough" for that specific job, and it does it in spades.

Anyways, that's enough thread derailing from me. Cheers!


----------



## jononotbono

Real JXL said:


> Really good question! For brass or any instruments you have to consider how many dynamic colors that instrument actually has besides becoming louder... things to consider are phasing when moving into a new layer, but mostly round robins... more RR give you a natural sound. Not necessarily 21 velocity layers. I mean I am a good drummer but to record 21 dynamic layers on command? And then with 40 other drummers in the room figuring out the same thing? It’s really admirable to do 21 velocity layers BUT RR is key to natural sound... Also I wanted absolute consistency through out each instrument... not 6 layers for horns: 8 for tenors:2 for tuba etc etc... also mp for horns IS mp for trumpets and IS mp for tenors... very very consistent...let me know if that makes sense!



Makes total sense. I’ve always thought it must be a nightmare to get a group of players to play at exactly the same volume, exactly the same playing technique in near enough perfect time with one another and then after that, playing the round robins in exactly the same consistency (in regards to playing a lot of dynamic layers). And I know some of these players are incredible (my only experience with live orchestra being at Galaxy Studios in Mol) but as you say “I mean I am a good drummer but to record 21 dynamic layers on command? And then with 40 other drummers in the room figuring out the same thing?” It would be the same thing if I was to play the articulations for an Electric Guitar Library. And that is, after getting all this right, having the players actually playing with emotion and not being exhausted lifeless robots by the end of so much concentration and thinking!

Very much looking forward to the 15th/16th and trying this out! I’m also very excited to see how many RRs you record for the JXL Recorder. At least 200 RRs and SATB for Hobbit Quartet writing I reckon.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Real JXL said:


> My idea was actually JXL triangle and recorder as a library! No?


Cowbell PLEASE!!!


----------



## axb312

Real JXL said:


> Yes I do! And thank you for asking! Because its an important question. While doing changes on cues for movies I constantly have to re adjust tempo and meter... fixed recording are a nuisance to me because of that! That’s why we did 5 dynamic layers for instance... you can swell up quick and come down slow or create your own sfz....



Sorry if I seem a little blunt but in initial talks about the library, I believe you mentioned this would be the ultimate brass library, capable of doing everything brass is expected to. Why did you choose not to record/release mutes, flutters and trills?

Also, does this have round robins on the sus/legato patches as well?


----------



## Uiroo

Real JXL said:


> My idea was actually JXL triangle and recorder as a library! No?


Maybe you should know that sleigh bells have a special place in our hearts, here at VI-Control.
There weren't included in the last library with a new player, and people got very emotional.


----------



## Ruffian Price

Real JXL said:


> Yes I do! And thank you for asking! Because its an important question. While doing changes on cues for movies I constantly have to re adjust tempo and meter... fixed recording are a nuisance to me because of that! That’s why we did 5 dynamic layers for instance... you can swell up quick and come down slow or create your own sfz....


Does that sound good with wetter mic perspectives? A huge advantage of recorded swells/sforzandos is that the room responds to them properly; doing a simulated sfz you won't get those early reflections from the initial attack, because you've just crossfaded them away! Did you find yourself having to supplement those patches with algorithmic reverb or do the transitions sound smooth enough on their own it's not noticeable?


----------



## jacobthestupendous

They did record sforzandos.


----------



## matthieuL

Real JXL said:


> also mp for horns IS mp for trumpets and IS mp for tenors... very very consistent...let me know if that makes sense!


The fact a library is balanced is for me the most important thing. For example Spitfire libraries sound good, but it's a hell to achieve a balance (they are completely unbalanced between instruments and between articulations), it's almost irrespectful from Spitfire. If I could, I would resell all their libraries...
So I'm super happy that JXL Brass is balanced ! Many thanks !


----------



## babylonwaves

Eptesicus said:


> What does this offer beyond a silly amount of mic positions ?





ridgero said:


> The question is: How will it blend with libraries from other companies?


the silly amount of mics certainly helps...


----------



## star.keys

jononotbono said:


> I’m just curious about the sampling process. This has 5 dynamic Layers. Would you consider adding more in the future and releasing them as a paid update?
> 
> Recently, the HZ Strings update got released and it uses 21 dynamic layers on the Spiccatissimos and quite frankly they sound phenomenal. It’s a staggering number of Dynamic layers. Sorry to mention a library by another dev in your thread but the fact you have chosen to do what nobody commercially has and recorded 5 dynamic layers, I’m just curious about the process of how you decide on which dynamic layers end up in the library (perhaps there’s a threshold where an Instruments timbre changes and cross fades into the next more smoothly?) and how much work it is to add more layers to an existing library? I personally would definitely pay for updates for things like this as I’m under no illusion it’s an expensive game producing something like this.
> 
> On another note, perhaps I should wait and use it first before making suggestions on how to make it better 😂



I have a humble suggestion/request. I won't even bother to compare this library with HZS. HZ is a great composer, I absolutely admire his work but what Spitfire has delivered with all that money, venue, tools and access is shambolic (I mean, look at it this way - if you had $10Mn and access to HZ, is that what you would deliver?). Same for BBC. After all, what's the point of so many dynamic layers?

Now consider 5 dynamic layers of JXL Brass, the sound it has achieved, breathing realism of samples - that's stellar achievement and I would be very happy to put money on anything that gets produced by OT in collaboration with JXL. Please, let's not even go there and bring Spitfire in the conversation here and spoil the party.


----------



## star.keys

Real JXL said:


> Really good question! For brass or any instruments you have to consider how many dynamic colors that instrument actually has besides becoming louder...



That's Spot on JXL - I really like the phrase "Dynamic colors" - this should permanently replace the phrase "dynamic layers" in the dictionary of composers 

Another example is: I have got VSL's Vienna Imperial piano with 100 dynamics layers, which I bought many years ago. Completely useless VI. Now what Cinesample has achieved using whatever number of dynamic layers within just 10GB CinePiano library is more lifelike and amazing.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

axb312 said:


> Sorry if I seem a little blunt but in initial talks about the library, I believe you mentioned this would be the ultimate brass library, capable of doing everything brass is expected to. Why did you choose not to record/release mutes, flutters and trills?
> 
> Also, does this have round robins on the sus/legato patches as well?


This is a very good question to which I would like to get an answer, since this is the weakness of all sampler libraries. We have only recorded trills in other libraries. We can’t do slow, we can’t do fast, naturally sounding legato performance without round robins.


Real JXL said:


> BUT RR is key to natural sound...


I agree. And so does it mean that you did it with legato/sustain? At least for Playable Runs patches?


----------



## Mike Fox

axb312 said:


> Sorry if I seem a little blunt but in initial talks about the library, I believe you mentioned this would be the ultimate brass library, capable of doing everything brass is expected to. Why did you choose not to record/release mutes, flutters and trills?
> 
> Also, does this have round robins on the sus/legato patches as well?


Expansions?


----------



## Loïc D

Mike Fox said:


> Expansions?


Pretty sure they’ll be expansions, yes.
One cannot live without brass mutes.


----------



## axb312

Mike Fox said:


> Expansions?



Pretty expensive as is for a hobbyist like me. And the statements were JXL Brass will be the ultimate brass library. Not JXL Brass and its expansions...

I also wonder how the cinematic series is able to do it so affordably. Or whether 8dio or Spitfire or orchestral tools are incurring losses during their sales...


----------



## Mike Fox

axb312 said:


> Pretty expensive as is for a hobbyist like me. And the statements were JXL Brass will be the ultimate brass library. Not JXL Brass and its expansions...
> 
> I also wonder how the cinematic series is able to do it so affordable. Or whether 8dio or Spitfire or orchestral tools are incurring losses during their sales...


That's been the main thing holding me back thus far. I really love the tone (it sounds incredible), but it's missing a lot to be the "ultimate" brass lib. Personally, i would have liked to have seen more fx and even aleatoric content. I compose horror music for haunted attractions, so it's really important for me to have that kind of material. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy with all of the other brass libs i already own.


----------



## Eptesicus

Mike Fox said:


> That's been the main thing holding me back thus far. I really love the tone (it sounds incredible), but it's missing a lot to be the "ultimate" brass lib. Personally, i would have liked to have seen more fx and even aleatoric content. I compose horror music for haunted attractions, so it's really important for me to have that kind of material. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy with all of the other brass libs i already own.



I'm surprised there are no trills or flutter tongues.

Those are used pretty extensively in film soundtracks.

I would be surprised/impressed if the legato can pull of trills convincingly.

If these, and mutes are added as paid updates, the library is going to get very expensive very quickly.


----------



## 5Lives

Looking at the Berlin series, OT’s approach seems to be to offer paid expansions vs. free additions, so I think we can expect something similar for this.


----------



## Andrew0568

The new trailer sounds great


----------



## OrchestralTools

We are super happy to present the official trailer for Junkie XL Brass.
Tom himself composed the music for it using the library and our new player.



Please stay tuned for another walkthrough episode coming very soon.
We're working on it as we speak.

Best,

OT


----------



## KEM

OrchestralTools said:


> We are super happy to present the official trailer for Junkie XL Brass.
> Tom himself composed the music for it using the library and our new player.
> 
> 
> 
> Please stay tuned for another walkthrough episode coming very soon.
> We're working on it as we speak.
> 
> Best,
> 
> OT




@Real JXL this composition is awesome!


----------



## axb312

@OrchestralTools, Now that you have your own player and I assume future libraries will be built in this player, will you allow license transfers and refunds?


----------



## Eptesicus

That's more like it. Bit better than that initial teaser


----------



## Saxer

Great trailer. This really sounds *fat*!


----------



## ryans

The low brass sounds great..


----------



## Eptesicus

ryans said:


> The low brass sounds great..



It really does.

Oddly I'm still not completely taken by the trumpets. Something about them sounds a bit thin and sterile in places. Its hard to pin point.


----------



## Raphioli

OrchestralTools said:


> We are super happy to present the official trailer for Junkie XL Brass.
> Tom himself composed the music for it using the library and our new player.
> 
> 
> 
> Please stay tuned for another walkthrough episode coming very soon.
> We're working on it as we speak.
> 
> Best,
> 
> OT


----------



## Uiroo

I really like the trailer, but I wish there would have been a bit more quiet stuff. The Part at 1:08 was really cool.

edit: But it is amazing how much he did with one chord...


----------



## Mike Fox

Eptesicus said:


> I'm surprised there are no trills or flutter tongues.
> 
> Those are used pretty extensively in film soundtracks.
> 
> I would be surprised/impressed if the legato can pull of trills convincingly.
> 
> If these, and mutes are added as paid updates, the library is going to get very expensive very quickly.


Yep. I think I'll end up passing for that very reason. It's too bad, because the library sounds stellar.


----------



## Noeticus

Does this new trailer only feature brass instruments? I thought I heard non-brass in it.


----------



## Tice

I love how the music resembled heroic themes akin to those used in the 80s and 90s. I miss that kind of film music!


----------



## Loïc D

Noeticus said:


> Does this new trailer only feature brass instruments? I thought I heard non-brass in it.


Nope, there are strings, woodwinds, harp, etc.


----------



## theiss1979

The bigger question is: Will they transfer their older libraries (Berlin Strings/Brass/Woddwinds) to the new player? Would they benefit from that?


----------



## tabulius

There is something about the trumpets that I don’t like. However as a whole, brass sounds great. I might pull the preorder-plug. The Sine player is making this even more tempting. Looking forward using it with Berlin Brass as well!


----------



## tabulius

theiss1979 said:


> The bigger question is: Will they transfer their older libraries (Berlin Strings/Brass/Woddwinds) to the new player? Would they benefit from that?



They have already confirmed that other libraries are coming after some months.


----------



## Eptesicus

theiss1979 said:


> The bigger question is: Will they transfer their older libraries (Berlin Strings/Brass/Woddwinds) to the new player? Would they benefit from that?



Yes they are. In fact Junkie is already using berlin strings in the video by the looks of it. The part showing the player shows the strings.


----------



## gjelul

Way way way better of what we've heard until now -- the demo sounds great!

One can find little things here and there with it -- I'm personally leaning toward the sound of the Berlin Brass ('smaller' and more defined sounding,) but overall and for $550 this is looking very tempting.

Interested in hearing the softer dynamics of the instruments and / or a detailed walkthrough on the instruments (articulations, legatos, etc.) 

Hopefully, they'll have this material out before Dec 16th.


----------



## korruptkey

I wish I can trade in Berlin Brass for this. BB is great, but not my thing if the loud stuff is missing. I end up using ARK brass more.


----------



## Drundfunk

Uiroo said:


> I really like the trailer, but I wish there would have been a bit more quiet stuff. The Part at 1:08 was really cool.
> 
> edit: But it is amazing how much he did with one chord...


Agreed. The loud parts didn't really convince me (I think it's the trumpet, but it's hard to put my finger on it), but man the quiet part......This sounded amazing but was too short.... . The low end is also quite nice. Waiting for more demos and walkthroughs.


----------



## jononotbono

OrchestralTools said:


> We are super happy to present the official trailer for Junkie XL Brass.
> Tom himself composed the music for it using the library and our new player.
> 
> 
> 
> Please stay tuned for another walkthrough episode coming very soon.
> We're working on it as we speak.
> 
> Best,
> 
> OT




So good!


----------



## Noeticus

I really wish that this new trailer only featured brass, as having other non-brass instruments in it muddies the water, and feels a bit like cheating. 

Sorry. 

But, yes, the library sounds fan-fuckin-tastic non the less.


----------



## germancomponist

Mike Fox said:


> Yep. I think I'll end up passing for that very reason. It's too bad, because the library sounds stellar.


Huh.... . You think the library sounds stellar and u will not buy it because it has no fx? Reminds me to a joke what a friend told me: " I would love to buy a pair of pants that have a zipper at the back of my butt that I can open when I have to poops. Since there are no such pants, I prefer to wear a skirt."

:-D :-D :-D


----------



## Mike Fox

germancomponist said:


> Huh.... . You think the library sounds stellar and u will not buy it because it has no fx? Reminds me to a joke what a friend told me: " I would love to buy a pair of pants that have a zipper at the back of my butt that I can open when I have to poops. Since there are no such pants, I prefer to wear a skirt."
> 
> :-D :-D :-D


Wow. Really dumb analogy, lol. I guess you missed the part where i said i mainly compose HORROR music. Fx are a crucial element to my writing process. Sorry I don't conform to the standard template?


----------



## germancomponist

Mike Fox said:


> Wow. Really dumb analogy, lol. I guess you missed the part where i said i mainly compose HORROR music. Fx are a crucial element to my writing process. Sorry I don't conform to the standard template?


You know that I am a little bit joking, as so often ...? 
In your situation, I would look to special sfx libs or would record my own ..... .
Cheers!


----------



## Mike Fox

germancomponist said:


> You know that I am a little bit joking, as so often ...?



Don't quit your day job.


----------



## germancomponist

Mike Fox said:


> Don't quit your day job.


My day job is dreaming and feeling well in my dreams .... .


----------



## jononotbono

Mike Fox said:


> Wow. Really dumb analogy, lol. I guess you missed the part where i said i mainly compose HORROR music. Fx are a crucial element to my writing process. Sorry I don't conform to the standard template?



I can imagine there are going to be expansions. Every single Berlin library has expansions and considering JXL Brass doesn’t have any mutes, like Berlin Brass, I’d bet a few quid that mutes will come. Perhaps FX will too?!


----------



## Real JXL

Dear all, I worked tirelessly on this demo the last week... This is all midi programming... this comes straight out of my cubase template... JXL Brass; Cinematic Strings; Berlin Strings OST; Berlin Woods OST; custom stuff added... No additional mixing or processing... I did add more reverb to brass to taste! I will upload video’s soon on my socials how I made this... Shoot me comments or questions!! Big hug to you all!


----------



## Mike Fox

jononotbono said:


> I can imagine there are going to be expansions. Every single Berlin library has expansions and considering JXL Brass doesn’t have any mutes, like Berlin Brass, I’d bet a few quid that mutes will come. Perhaps FX will too?!


Fingers crossed!


----------



## Real JXL

Stay tuned for what's coming guys!! You will be surprised!


----------



## artinro

Sounds great, @Real JXL. Congrats on all the hard work. Looking forward to the legato walkthrough. Hopefully that's next! Can't wait to hear it.


----------



## Saxer

Fantastic Demo JXL!


----------



## Peter Satera

Noeticus said:


> I really wish that this new trailer only featured brass, as having other non-brass instruments in it muddies the water, and feels a bit like cheating.
> 
> Sorry.



I get why, but we'll have walkthroughs for that. It's important that we hear it sitting in a mix. So personally happy to hear it used in context too since that's how it'll be used.


----------



## ToxicRecordings

Man, this sounds awesome! Not the biggest brass fan, but this makes me want to dive in deep with these samples and options.


----------



## Eptesicus

Peter Satera said:


> I get why, but we'll have walkthroughs for that. It's important that we hear it sitting in a mix. So personally happy to hear it used in context too since that's how it'll be used.




What the hell? Why has this quoted me as saying that. It was someone else!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Eptesicus said:


> We were always at war with Eurasia


we were always at war with Eurasia, you're so right

*laughs in big brother*


----------



## shawnsingh

Eptesicus said:


> Maybe I'm really saying these things, and I don't remember?



Edit: very sorry but I just couldn't resist!


----------



## Eptesicus

You guys


----------



## Eptesicus

With regard to the trumpets at the start, out of interest i just quickly did the start with century brass' 2 trumpet + solo trumpet patch in unison.

I thought it would be interesting to compare that exposed trumpet part at the beginning. This is literally just those two patches using the sustain and staccitissimo articulations and a splash of spaces reverb.

I think its pretty close, although JXL Brass definitely has more bite on the lower notes. There is a bit more depth to the JXL sound too.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

you should try the solo trumpet phrase from the close mic demo


----------



## matthieuL

I discovered in the trailer that the Tuba is not the common one (bass tuba) but a contrabass tuba.
Can we use the contrabass tuba as a bass tuba ? (have the 2 instruments a different tone ?)


----------



## ProfoundSilence

matthieuL said:


> I discovered in the trailer that the Tuba is not the common one (bass tuba) but a contrabass tuba.
> Can we use the contrabass tuba as a bass tuba ? (have the 2 instruments a different tone ?)


or better yet, an BASS expansion(slap like or davie504 will SLAP you) that adds bass tuba, wagner tuba, euphonium, bass trumpet, and contrabass trombone all solo and a3 
some bass trumpets would be really nice for some mockups


----------



## Peter Satera

Making of JXLBrass EP3 is on OT. :D








Tom Holkenborg's Brass


Tom Holkenborg's Brass offers a full orchestral brass set-up in a single package, recorded with a highly consistent set of articulations for all instruments and sections. Classic brass instruments - including trumpets, french horns, trombones, cimbassi and a tuba - were sampled in several...




www.orchestraltools.com







Eptesicus said:


> What the hell? Why has this quoted me as saying that. It was someone else!



Bank error in your favor, collect 200. [Fixed]


----------



## Raphioli

i liked where they mentioned they placed the mics similar to the Berlin series to make the Berlin series and JXL series compatible. Really good choice.
And also interesting that they are considering to work on sound design patches using the original recordings.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

Terrific demo, not only a very nice piece of music but hits on all the bullet points in less than 2 minutes...brass by itself ...ppp for a moment, dynamics and how it plays within an orchestral context especially at the end. When listening to it, it reminds me why Tom gets big gigs, he understands well what each situation needs musically, he is not just writing for writing's sake.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

I've only heard that it works for adventure style orchestral music in the demo. Basically - great sounding (!!!) and cohesive shorts and marcatos. But I can't really tell more. Except that the piece is very well written. :D Although I listened once so far, may eat my words later haha - regarding the library of course.
Edit: After a second watching I'll still say it to 98% shows loud dramatic adventure capabilities with shorts and marcatos/longs and done. I think this can easily be done with other libraries. Except the sound itself which is killer of course.


----------



## Jack Weaver

I was happily surprised by the compositional talent shown by Tom's demo. And it really is just about the best sampled brass piece I've ever heard. 

Not that I can bring to mind any one better at the moment...

.


----------



## OrchestralTools

Hi everyone
Episode 6 of our SINE Player video series is now up.



Not only can you build your own Legato Map, but with SINE you can also change the attack and release of articulations.
Very useful – for example, you can reduce the room sound on an articulation. You can also personalize the round robins, and make other detail tweaks.
We can’t wait to hear your thoughts on this when Junkie XL Brass & SINE become available on Monday.


----------



## jononotbono

I haven't really thought much about the Masterclass included with the purchase of JXL Brass as I've mainly been thinking about the library but to be fair, having a live masterclass from one of the biggest film composers at the moment is worth the asking price alone. If, of course, you are interested in film composition. Bonus JXL Brass library included with Masterclass.


----------



## Peter Satera

No @jononotbono! You're not convincing me...you're not convincing me!!!

*opens wallet* *closes wallet* *opens wallet* *closes wallet*


----------



## Fry777

@OrchestralTools If I understood this last episode correctly, there's no recorded legato for JXL Brass, just the "emulated" one that you can apply to any articulation, as in the Capsule interface ?
If so, could you tell us more about the improvement of said emulated legato, compared to the one in Capsule ?


----------



## Eptesicus

Fry777 said:


> @OrchestralTools If I understood this last episode correctly, there's no recorded legato for JXL Brass, just the "emulated" one that you can apply to any articulation, as in the Capsule interface ?
> If so, could you tell us more about the improvement of said emulated legato, compared to the one in Capsule ?



Wait what!? No real legato?

That cant be right surely.


----------



## korruptkey

Eptesicus said:


> Wait what!? No real legato?
> 
> That cant be right surely.



Pretty sure it's real legato, but it's extracted, sliced, diced and cut to be flexible enough to be applied to different articulations. It's the same function in their capsule, you can apply the legato to portato patches, one of my favourite functions.


----------



## shawnsingh

DarkestShadow said:


> I'll still say it to 98% shows loud dramatic adventure capabilities with shorts and marcatos/longs and done. I think this can easily be done with other libraries.



I agree that "bouncy adventure capabilities with shorts/longs/marcatos" do exist in many other libraries. BUT ... I think there is a killer combination of getting everything right in one library that doesn't yet exist, and for me personally that's valuable.

- A lot of libraries don't have short enough staccatissimo to work as double/triple tonguing, or to work as super agile bouncy shorts that switch well with staccato. Of the few libraries I am familiar with, Berlin Brass is the only one I think that got this done well

- A lot of libraries don't have enough ability to sculpt different attack types on sustains - rounded accents, sharp accents, soft attacks, normal attacks

- A lot of libraries don't have consistent velocity layers for all articulations. legato patches often skip the highest overblown velocity layers, accented attack articulations often skip lower velocities.

- A lot of libraries have just enough inconsistency across articulations that it's hard to microswitch and tune performances that need all articulations in one phrase.

Any of these things missing means that it becomes hard to compose anything we want - we have to constrain what we want based on what the library is capable of.

For me the promise of JXL Brass that completely sold me (yes I already preordered a while ago!) is the promise to have *all* of these features in one library - or more importantly, the promise to have all these features in one melody or one phrase. The next best thing that can get 95% of the way there is to layer different libraries that compensate for each other's weaknesses. But that comes along with a lot of tweaking and trial and error - and ultimately, still no promise that you can achieve the performance nuances that you had in mind...


----------



## Fry777

korruptkey said:


> Pretty sure it's real legato, but it's extracted, sliced, diced and cut to be flexible enough to be applied to different articulations. It's the same function in their capsule, you can apply the legato to portato patches, one of my favourite functions.



You're probably right, although it would be nice to have some clarifications on that from @OrchestralTools


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Fry777 said:


> @OrchestralTools If I understood this last episode correctly, there's no recorded legato for JXL Brass, just the "emulated" one that you can apply to any articulation, as in the Capsule interface ?
> If so, could you tell us more about the improvement of said emulated legato, compared to the one in Capsule ?



oh, these are true recorded legato transitions. In Junkie XL Brass we captured two legato styles for almost all instruments. There is a regular legato and an agile runs legato. They will be switched based on your playing speed. Additionally you're able to apply those legato transitions to almost all articulations. e.g. combining marcato with legato.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

just another note regarding the recorded legato. 
We captured both legato styles for all 5 dynamic layers to be on par with the longs. No cuts here.


----------



## Loïc D

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> Additionally you're able to apply those legato transitions to almost all articulations. e.g. combining marcato with legato.


Fantastic !
@Hendrik-Schwarzer : since you're here, what is the fader box we can see half of on your desk ?
Besides, thanks a lot for the videos !


----------



## korruptkey

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> just another note regarding the recorded legato.
> We captured both legato styles for all 5 dynamic layers to be on par with the longs. No cuts here.


----------



## matthieuL

I know that from OT support : one cool feature is the possibility to add several times the same articulation, so we can have multiple versions with different settings (legato, attack, etc)


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

LowweeK said:


> Fantastic !
> @Hendrik-Schwarzer : since you're here, what is the fader box we can see half of on your desk ?
> Besides, thanks a lot for the videos !



It's not the newest piece of gear. It's an Alias 8 from Livid.


----------



## Eptesicus

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> just another note regarding the recorded legato.
> We captured both legato styles for all 5 dynamic layers to be on par with the longs. No cuts here.



Ha, you answered my next question!

That is impressive...

No wonder it is a big library if it has 5 dynamic layers of legato as well!

Are we going to get a good demonstration of the legato abilities? So far, the walkthrough and trailer demo are very shorts orientated.

It would be nice to here some exposes lyrical lines/melodies.


----------



## Drundfunk

You guys are making it very hard to not spend the money. Looks great! Only concern for me now is hard drive space and if the new demos and walkthroughs will blow me away so I don't have any doubts left .


----------



## gjelul

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> just another note regarding the recorded legato.
> We captured both legato styles for all 5 dynamic layers to be on par with the longs. No cuts here.




Can you please have a couple of demos showing the dynamic layers and the articulations (especially the longs / legatos) prior to the end of the pre-order?

Tom's bombastic demo, as excellent as it is and as expected, cannot address / show everything in 2 minutes.


----------



## Virtuoso

I like the interface, but have you considered having it designed by a games company?

Sure it's _convenient_ to have everything you need laid out neatly in front of you, but nothing beats the excitement of wondering what articulations or mics might be tucked away on page 4, as you go hunting and pecking around the sparse modern user interface.

And nothing makes a statement quite like a _massive knob_ that takes up most of the screen space while doing only one thing. That's true focus!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

shawnsingh said:


> I agree that "bouncy adventure capabilities with shorts/longs/marcatos" do exist in many other libraries. BUT ... I think there is a killer combination of getting everything right in one library that doesn't yet exist, and for me personally that's valuable.
> 
> - A lot of libraries don't have short enough staccatissimo to work as double/triple tonguing, or to work as super agile bouncy shorts that switch well with staccato. Of the few libraries I am familiar with, Berlin Brass is the only one I think that got this done well
> 
> - A lot of libraries don't have enough ability to sculpt different attack types on sustains - rounded accents, sharp accents, soft attacks, normal attacks
> 
> - A lot of libraries don't have consistent velocity layers for all articulations. legato patches often skip the highest overblown velocity layers, accented attack articulations often skip lower velocities.
> 
> - A lot of libraries have just enough inconsistency across articulations that it's hard to microswitch and tune performances that need all articulations in one phrase.
> 
> Any of these things missing means that it becomes hard to compose anything we want - we have to constrain what we want based on what the library is capable of.
> 
> For me the promise of JXL Brass that completely sold me (yes I already preordered a while ago!) is the promise to have *all* of these features in one library - or more importantly, the promise to have all these features in one melody or one phrase. The next best thing that can get 95% of the way there is to layer different libraries that compensate for each other's weaknesses. But that comes along with a lot of tweaking and trial and error - and ultimately, still no promise that you can achieve the performance nuances that you had in mind...


Well, I'm a bit irritated. It seems like you are praising features/capabilities that have been _promised_ but not _demonstrated_. I watched the walkthrough, the Sine videos, except number 6 ATM and listened to the teaser & trailer demos. My memory is bad but I'm pretty sure I haven't heard most of the features you mention.

I purely care about what I hear not at all what the developers say and usually don't read the descriptions with much attention. It's all about how it "sounds" like at the end and how effective these features actually are.
And there just hasn't been enough audible demonstration *yet*. And I'm just irritated that this long announced demo piece shows so little variety.
The way I read it the way that this upcoming demo by Tom is supposed to show a lot of nuances of this library, the quieter realm and the more aggressive and loud sound. The range of the library.
I only heard *awesome* sounding golden era adventure music, 98% ff - fff & staccato marcato.
All great sounding, but... just a particular style.
Unknown how it will perform mellow chordal brass writing, the quieter realm overall or loud 'heroic' and soft 'lyrical' *legato* lines etc..

I just read that there are 5 legato dynamic layers and 2 different types of it. That's spectacular, but dammit... better be quick to show off the awesome sauce in detail instead of making everyone decide whether their want the library at a big discount and Tom's unique course within 2 days or whenever such demonstrations are posted, if at all.


----------



## Real JXL

Dear Guys.... Here a inspired piece by ravel where softer tones are explored of the brass library...


----------



## Real JXL

Here a Ravel inspired piece... Just got really into it!


----------



## Noeticus

AMAZING music, Tom!!!!!


----------



## gjelul

Real JXL said:


> Here a Ravel inspired piece... Just got really into it!



Hey Tom, first of all thank you for taking the time and pass on more examples of the library. 

Possible to have the above example, and even the official trailer, with only the brass? 

I understand that OT should be the ones dealing with this stuff, but trying to take advantage of your kindness here


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Real JXL said:


> Here a Ravel inspired piece... Just got really into it!


no disrespect but that's just Ravel 

Brass sounds fantastic .


----------



## synthetic

That low brass at 1:17, holy crap. I had to change my pants.


----------



## Noeticus

I hope to meet you one day, Tom.


----------



## shawnsingh

DarkestShadow said:


> Well, I'm a bit irritated. It seems like you are praising features/capabilities that have been _promised_ but not _demonstrated_. I watched the walkthrough, the Sine videos, except number 6 ATM and listened to the teaser & trailer demos. My memory is bad but I'm pretty sure I haven't heard most of the features you mention.
> 
> I purely care about what I hear not at all what the developers say and usually don't read the descriptions with much attention. It's all about how it "sounds" like at the end and how effective these features actually are.
> And there just hasn't been enough audible demonstration *yet*. And I'm just irritated that this long announced demo piece shows so little variety.
> The way I read it the way that this upcoming demo by Tom is supposed to show a lot of nuances of this library, the quieter realm and the more aggressive and loud sound. The range of the library.
> I only heard *awesome* sounding golden era adventure music, 98% ff - fff & staccato marcato.
> All great sounding, but... just a particular style.
> Unknown how it will perform mellow chordal brass writing, the quieter realm overall or loud 'heroic' and soft 'lyrical' *legato* lines etc..
> 
> I just read that there are 5 legato dynamic layers and 2 different types of it. That's spectacular, but dammit... better be quick to show off the awesome sauce in detail instead of making everyone decide whether their want the library at a big discount and Tom's unique course within 2 days or whenever such demonstrations are posted, if at all.



Well, I definitely didn't mean to irritate you, sorry for that! No problem if we disagree.

I do think a lot of things I mentioned before are actually demonstrated in the walkthrough video and some other content:

(a) All of the excerpts were "naked" demos of only the library, which is something people are asking for - it's right there!
(b) One of the excerpts early in the walkthrough did demonstrate the same MIDI being copy-pasted from solo to a12 horns, and how consistent it sounds.
(c) Almost every example was filled with constant switching between articulations. We can't tell from these examples how much effort and tweaking it takes, but all of the examples taken together is a strong clue that the articulations are consistent enough so that switching can be used for sculpting phrasing in addition to MIDI CC within each articulation.
(d) You were asking for the trailer to demonstrate dynamics - the walkthrough video does show a lot of dynamics. Almost every example in the walkthrough shows the range of dynamics from at least mp/mf up to fff. They demonstrated these dynamics for many of the articulations on many of the instruments. Not sure if there were pp examples there, it would have been nice to see a visualization of MIDI CC and note velocities in the video, but still the dynamic range is undeniably audible.
(e) Special shout out to the very first excerpt at 0:00, which I think demonstrated sforzando articulation at various velocities. It is possible to create bouncy sforzando attacks at quiet volume levels, which is a great way to add character to a performance. But some of the libraries I used in the past don't really sample multiple velocity layers of sfz.
(f) Another special shout out to stacatissimos, demonstrated everywhere to be quite agile - demonstrated as double/triple tonguing, and also demonstrated as the bouncy articulation between beats. and best of all, it was demonstrated for horns and cimbassi and tuba too, where I think many other libraries tend to skip sampling it except for trumpets, and that's always so disappointing.

As for legato, I don't know. There have been many hidden examples of it - in the original teaser video a few weeks ago, the last notes of the trumpets jumping one octave. The close1 horns excerpt showed a nice schmoozy 6th interval in the walkthrough video. And the Alan Meyerson mix excerpts around the 9-10 minute mark used sustains and legatos, in particular one quick trumpet mordent thing that sounded like the playable runs faster legato. Hendrik earlier posted a horn solo, too (link here to hear it) and it sounded promising to me (you have to ignore the places where Hendrik likely lifted his finger to repeat a note, which happened several times). But yeah, it might be nice to hear just a few more very exposed and focused examples of legato.

Cheers!


----------



## Eptesicus

I like the new demo

I love the sound of the horns in these. I think they are the nicest sounding horns ive heard VST wise. They have sounded great in all the demos.

The low brass is brutal as well which is good!

Still not completely taken by the trumpets.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

shawnsingh said:


> Well, I definitely didn't mean to irritate you, sorry for that! No problem if we disagree.
> 
> I do think a lot of things I mentioned before are actually demonstrated in the walkthrough video and some other content:
> 
> (a) All of the excerpts were "naked" demos of only the library, which is something people are asking for - it's right there!
> (b) One of the excerpts early in the walkthrough did demonstrate the same MIDI being copy-pasted from solo to a12 horns, and how consistent it sounds.
> (c) Almost every example was filled with constant switching between articulations. We can't tell from these examples how much effort and tweaking it takes, but all of the examples taken together is a strong clue that the articulations are consistent enough so that switching can be used for sculpting phrasing in addition to MIDI CC within each articulation.
> (d) You were asking for the trailer to demonstrate dynamics - the walkthrough video does show a lot of dynamics. Almost every example in the walkthrough shows the range of dynamics from at least mp/mf up to fff. They demonstrated these dynamics for many of the articulations on many of the instruments. Not sure if there were pp examples there, it would have been nice to see a visualization of MIDI CC and note velocities in the video, but still the dynamic range is undeniably audible.
> (e) Special shout out to the very first excerpt at 0:00, which I think demonstrated sforzando articulation at various velocities. It is possible to create bouncy sforzando attacks at quiet volume levels, which is a great way to add character to a performance. But some of the libraries I used in the past don't really sample multiple velocity layers of sfz.
> (f) Another special shout out to stacatissimos, demonstrated everywhere to be quite agile - demonstrated as double/triple tonguing, and also demonstrated as the bouncy articulation between beats. and best of all, it was demonstrated for horns and cimbassi and tuba too, where I think many other libraries tend to skip sampling it except for trumpets, and that's always so disappointing.
> 
> As for legato, I don't know. There have been many hidden examples of it - in the original teaser video a few weeks ago, the last notes of the trumpets jumping one octave. The close1 horns excerpt showed a nice schmoozy 6th interval in the walkthrough video. And the Alan Meyerson mix excerpts around the 9-10 minute mark used sustains and legatos, in particular one quick trumpet mordent thing that sounded like the playable runs faster legato. Hendrik earlier posted a horn solo, too (link here to hear it) and it sounded promising to me (you have to ignore the places where Hendrik likely lifted his finger to repeat a note, which happened several times). But yeah, it might be nice to hear just a few more very exposed and focused examples of legato.
> 
> Cheers!


Thanks for the clarification... yea, either I have not been that impressed by most of these features, maybe to quick for me to build an opinion (you can easily pick awesome sounding notes in the pursuit of demonstrating the library at it's best) or I didn't pay enough attention. Gotta rewatch the examples... And check the almost 2 minute solo horn demo by Hendrik. That's a sufficiently LONG time.  

I definitely heard the consistency between articulations though. That's something I actually hear in a lot of Orchestral Tools libraries. I have been skipping back in past walkthroughs to see if what was just played was a phrase or switching between multi samples. Was impressive to see that multi samples were used. 

I just find that considering the pressure of deciding whether to buy it or not, miss it at a lower price and miss Tom's course there aren't enough examples at all at the moment. If more comes up now its still just 3/2 days.


----------



## Leo

Please, give to us proper walkthrough or extend pre-order price.
I'm frustrated now,
thnx


----------



## reutunes

Virtuoso said:


> I like the interface, but have you considered having it designed by a games company?
> 
> Sure it's _convenient_ to have everything you need laid out neatly in front of you, but nothing beats the excitement of wondering what articulations or mics might be tucked away on page 4, as you go hunting and pecking around the sparse modern user interface.
> 
> And nothing makes a statement quite like a _massive knob_ that takes up most of the screen space while doing only one thing. That's true focus!



Post of the year


----------



## Raphioli

Does anyone remember when OT released a detailed walkthrough playing through actual patches for Ark 4?
Was it already available 3 days prior to the release date? Or was the video release more closer to the release date? Like a day before it?


----------



## axb312

DarkestShadow said:


> Thanks for the clarification... yea, either I have not been that impressed by most of these features, maybe to quick for me to build an opinion (you can easily pick awesome sounding notes in the pursuit of demonstrating the library at it's best) or I didn't pay enough attention. Gotta rewatch the examples... And check the almost 2 minute solo horn demo by Hendrik. That's a sufficiently LONG time.
> 
> I definitely heard the consistency between articulations though. That's something I actually hear in a lot of Orchestral Tools libraries. I have been skipping back in past walkthroughs to see if what was just played was a phrase or switching between multi samples. Was impressive to see that multi samples were used.
> 
> I just find that considering the pressure of deciding whether to buy it or not, miss it at a lower price and miss Tom's course there aren't enough examples at all at the moment. If more comes up now its still just 3/2 days.



This is typical Orchestral tools style I think...


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Leo said:


> Please, give to us proper walkthrough or extend pre-order price.
> I'm frustrated now,
> thnx


out of curiosity what were you missing in the walkthrough? Sections?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

axb312 said:


> This is typical Orchestral tools style I think...


I think it's a deadlines issue. 

OT have always had decent walkthroughs - I think certain projects end up way more close to deadlines.

Or maybe been working a lot better for them Building hype and then relieving us last minute lol


----------



## star.keys

Real JXL said:


> Here a Ravel inspired piece... Just got really into it!


OMG, what was that?!!  (laughing at the boundaries of my imagination of what could ever be achieved using sample libraries)
I have never been that excited about a release before! Looking forward to 16th, but unfortunately I will be away on vacation until 24th and can only get my hands on the library on 25th


----------



## Tice

There's some really impressive layering going on in the Ravel demo! Seems that the samples used go together extremely well. I wonder if I can get the same realistic blending to happen when I use sample libraries outside of Orchestral Tools' repertoir for the other sections of the orchestra. Mainly VSL for strings and woodwinds.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Tice said:


> There's some really impressive layering going on in the Ravel demo! Seems that the samples used go together extremely well. I wonder if I can get the same realistic blending to happen when I use sample libraries outside of Orchestral Tools' repertoir for the other sections of the orchestra. Mainly VSL for strings and woodwinds.



doubtful, unless you're using synchron strings. 

anything from Sony mgm/crackdown can have a similiar ambience length but you need to EQ them differently for(mostly brass).

shameless plug, I'm selling all the mir packs together, which includes teldex


----------



## Leo

ProfoundSilence said:


> out of curiosity what were you missing in the walkthrough? Sections?


now I know something about new cool player with great futures, 
but about new brass I know much less: 
1 lovely bombastic FF demo,
1 semiofficial demo (ravel, but this demo is not my cup of tee),
and some (mostly) random sounds 

I don't hear: 
legato (longer like 2 seconds) for all sections
solo melody line for soloist and sections 
and demos with only brass please - without other libs, 
I want to see and hear naked NAKED truth  (demos).


----------



## ProfoundSilence

there is most of that in the single walkthrough, the teasers, and the trailer. 

only thing really missing is showing off all of the legato transitions

but we've seen solo horn, tuba, trombone. trumpet, all naked. 

we've seen fortississimo brass, we have seen pianissimo brass as well. I cant help but feel you haven't actually watched all of the footage available, and I dont have the urge to manually link you time stamps either. Ironically most if what you asked for was showcased in the mic walkthrough.


----------



## Raphioli

First of all,
I really do love Junkie XLs demos, especially the latest one from a composition perspective and I think I've gotten to know its strengths.
But at the same time, I may have noticed a weakness listening to one of the SINE player videos, but I am not sure of it, since there aren't really detailed play throughs of it.

I also would like what Leo is asking for.


Leo said:


> I don't hear:
> legato (longer like 2 seconds) for all sections
> solo melody line for soloist and sections



I've done some Googling and Ark 4 was released on Dec 19th and the second chapter of the screencast was release on the 14th.
Time Micro was release on Sep 16th, while the second chapter of the screencast was released on the 11th.
Both were release around 5 days prior to the release.

What I want to see is something just like the screencasts for Ark 4, Time Micro and the other OT libraries.


----------



## Leo

ProfoundSilence said:


> I cant help but feel you haven't actually watched all of the footage available, and I dont have the urge to manually link you time stamps either


in my life you're not as important as you think
this also applies vice versa


----------



## jbuhler

ProfoundSilence said:


> I think it's a deadlines issue.
> 
> OT have always had decent walkthroughs - I think certain projects end up way more close to deadlines.
> 
> Or maybe been working a lot better for them Building hype and then relieving us last minute lol


They’ve pushed extremely close to the deadline in all releases since at least Glory Days and Ark 4. The walkthroughs/demos for Time Micro came so late they extended the intro pricing. I now consider late arriving demos and walkthroughs to be the norm for OT. It will be interesting to see if they extend the intro pricing on JXL Brass.


----------



## Real JXL

here is an update!!


----------



## Real JXL

here is an update


----------



## Eptesicus

Real JXL said:


> here is an update



There is a digital clip/artifact at 0.51 and 1.07! Poor show 

Lovely piece though :D


----------



## Tice

Very nicely done!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

JXL do you happen to have the berlin harp?


----------



## jononotbono

star.keys said:


> and can only get my hands on the library on 25th



And it's very good of yourself to give yourself such a Christmas gift.


----------



## jononotbono

Real JXL said:


> here is an update



Sounds glorious. Great writing as well. Listening on some PMC AML2s and the depth of field with the Brass is amazing! The seating position is awesome. Going to try and listen with PMC QB1 XBD-As in a bit but they are currently being used. Typical.

This is the feeling I used to have for Christmas morning when I was a little kid. Glad to have that feeling back as a bigger kid.


----------



## Eptesicus

Real JXL said:


> here is an update



This is perhaps not doable due to copyright etc, but i don't suppose you can dig out the projects for Batman vs Superman or The Dark Tower and mock up the themes for that with JXL Brass can you? 

Would love to hear how close it can get to the real recordings.


----------



## Kartus

Waiting for the release of the requested Walkthrough 2 video in the next minutes to finally verify our pre-order


----------



## Andrew0568

So this takes up 300GB of hard drive space? Or 690GB?


----------



## zolhof

Kartus said:


> Waiting for the release of the requested Walkthrough 2 video in the next minutes to finally verify our pre-order



It was in fact released but for some reason the video is now set to private. I left the tab opened and I'm watching it as I write this... well, I have a hunch that you will indeed hit that pre-order button


----------



## Raphioli

I received an e-mail from VI that OT posted a 2nd walkthrough on the forum and was like "omg, I need to go see it now!".
But I don't see it.... :(


----------



## Fry777

zolhof said:


> It was in fact released but for some reason the video is now set to private. I left the tab opened and I'm watching it as I write this... well, I have a hunch that you will indeed hit that pre-order button



You must be almost done by now, let us know your impressions please


----------



## abrasounds

Raphioli said:


> I received an e-mail from VI that OT posted a 2nd walkthrough on the forum and was like "omg, I need to go see it now!".
> But I don't see it.... :(



Same here :( 
Apparently it was set to private a bit after it was posted, so I assume something might have gone wrong with the video and they're changing that before posting it again


----------



## jononotbono

Just listened to the official trailer and actually in 9.1. Utterly amazing. Everyone in the studio just looked at me and said “what the fuck is this?” I said JXL Brass. Then mix engineer (Ronald Prent) just said, “This sounds fucking amazing. Are you buying this?” Of which I replied, Of course. 😂


----------



## Fry777

abrasounds said:


> Same here :(
> Apparently it was set to private a bit after it was posted, so I assume something might have gone wrong with the video and they're changing that before posting it again



They were accidentally showing JXL playing the muted Vuvuzela expansion, set to be released Q2 2020


----------



## abrasounds

Fry777 said:


> They were accidentally showing JXL playing the muted Vuvuzela expansion, set to be released Q2 2020


That's where I'm putting all my money, gotta get that perfect Vuvuzela


----------



## OrchestralTools

We just released the 2nd walkthrough



This walkthrough takes you through each instrument of the Junkie XL Brass library. 
From solo instruments up to sections of 12 players, listen to the highly consistent articulations and legato patches.

Remember, pre-order includes access to a live masterclass with Junkie XL himself, teaching you how to fully utilize this brass library.

If you have any questions let us know, and we're working on a Demo as we speak..

Best,

OT Team


----------



## ProfoundSilence

its back up now


----------



## jbuhler

Only available at 360p at the moment though.


----------



## Raphioli

Yeah, its only at 360p for some reason. Maybe its because we rushed them and they couldn't render it at 4K xD
Jokes aside, finally I could listen to the legatos. Even if the video isn't in best quality,
I think my worries for legatos have gone out the window.

I'm still watching it, but I'm impressed!

EDITED: omg, those transitions from 3:54. This is what I call an informative walkthrough! Amazing.


----------



## axb312

Couldn't see any mod wheel movement there...


----------



## ProfoundSilence

THESE BASS BONES BOIS(and galls)

Finally a really well sampled a3 bassbones… all ark 1 did was make me want to cry that it wasn't berlin brass quality haha

also, in general that 12 >6x2 >4x3 actually worked wayyyyyy better than I thought it was going to - that's awesome.


----------



## davidson

@OrchestralTools Is there any kind of clever automatic articulation switching between longs and shorts so you can easily play lines in live, or is everything done manually via keyswitches?


----------



## Andrew0568

Sounds incredible!

The mod wheel graphic doesn't seem to be moving in the video? Also, couldn't help but think of The Office with the brown key switches


----------



## Eptesicus

Can @OrchestralTools clear something up - in the latest SINE video you said there were no patches labelled legato, but in this walk through there are patches that say "sustain + LEG".

I thought it was just going to be all the patches, and then the ability to turn the legato on or off on them?


----------



## Raphioli

Eptesicus said:


> Can @OrchestralTools clear something up - in the latest SINE video you said there were no patches labelled legato, but in this walk through there are patches that say "sustain + LEG".
> 
> I thought it was just going to be all the patches, and then the ability to turn the legato on or off on them?


 
I'm assuming +LEG just gets added to the patch name once you apply a legato to an articulation.
Its like that symbol which looks like a "slash" in Capsule displayed around the top lefthand corner of the articulation name in Capsule if you've enabled legato for that articulation. But in SINE, it displays it as "+LEG"


----------



## Eptesicus

Ha, i think i listened to the high trumpet demo too loud. My ears


----------



## ProfoundSilence

yeah it's just sustains with legs 

your staccato can have a leg too


----------



## Tilt & Flow

OrchestralTools said:


> We just released the 2nd walkthrough
> 
> 
> 
> This walkthrough takes you through each instrument of the Junkie XL Brass library.
> From solo instruments up to sections of 12 players, listen to the highly consistent articulations and legato patches.
> 
> Remember, pre-order includes access to a live masterclass with Junkie XL himself, teaching you how to fully utilize this brass library.
> 
> If you have any questions let us know, and we're working on a Demo as we speak..
> 
> Best,
> 
> OT Team



ok, sold!


----------



## Eptesicus

ProfoundSilence said:


> yeah it's just sustains with legs
> 
> your staccato can have a leg too



Perhaps i didnt explain. The other articulations have legato turned on as well, but there is a seperate "sustain + leg" patch on the keyswitch roster. This goes against what the latest SINE player video showed.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

damn, the low brass together - even with multiple mics loaded(iirc based on previous examples) its still only like 3.4 gb... i think the sub mic on the tuba is a bit too much in that example - but jesus jerry jones that was meaner than setting fire to a nursing home

Did I mention ya'll need to get berlin brass and woodwinds loaded into sine?!?!?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Eptesicus said:


> Perhaps i didnt explain. The other articulations have legato turned on as well, but there is a seperate "sustain + leg" patch on the keyswitch roster. This goes against what the latest SINE player video showed.


No there isn't, they just loaded a 2nd sustain patch and activated legato on it. They had +LEG added to even short articulations in the videos they've shown. It's just the replacement for what used to be the little swoop in Capsule.


----------



## shawnsingh

Eptesicus said:


> Ha, i think i listened to the high trumpet demo too loud. My ears



Oy, I think you should just buy the library and not use the trumpets


----------



## Raphioli

Finally finished watching. Really great walkthrough.
Congrats OT, Junkie XL, Alan Meyerson. You guys created an amazing sample library. I'm in.


----------



## Eptesicus

shawnsingh said:


> Oy, I think you should just buy the library and not use the trumpets



I didnt mean they were bad. I mean they were ear piercingly loud (a good thing...just not for my ears)


----------



## Eptesicus

ProfoundSilence said:


> No there isn't, they just loaded a 2nd sustain patch and activated legato on it. They had +LEG added to even short articulations in the videos they've shown. It's just the replacement for what used to be the little swoop in Capsule.



Oh i see. I didnt see that anywhere else on this video. It only ever seemed to be next to the sustain patch, even when they had legato activated on the short articulations....

See attached..?


----------



## tabulius

The walkthru demo 2 sounded good. Preordered. Sitting and waiting.


----------



## Virtuoso

Everything sounds fantastic, apart from the v/o guy's pronunciation of S4 Zando and Simbassi!

Can't wait for Monday!


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Eptesicus said:


> Can @OrchestralTools clear something up - in the latest SINE video you said there were no patches labelled legato, but in this walk through there are patches that say "sustain + LEG".
> 
> I thought it was just going to be all the patches, and then the ability to turn the legato on or off on them?



You load an articulation and then you can apply legato on it.
But as most of us are simply used to load a so called "legato patch" I had the wish to deliver pre-configured patches out of sustains and legato.
Anyway, since my video Stan build a feature into SINE which creates a combined patch out of sustains +LEG automatically.
Nothing big but it makes loading patches just a bit more convenient.


----------



## Maxime Luft

LowweeK said:


> Fantastic !
> @Hendrik-Schwarzer : since you're here, what is the fader box we can see half of on your desk ?
> Besides, thanks a lot for the videos !





Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> It's not the newest piece of gear. It's an Alias 8 from Livid.



Might explain why I can't find mine anymore...


----------



## synthetic

Dead. So great. Sold.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Maxime Luft said:


> Might explain why I can't find mine anymore...



Might explain why it's not the latest gear...


----------



## Nova

Geez I had to stop watching the 2nd walk-through because I vowed to not buy another library until my compositional chops were better.


----------



## David Kudell

Um...so was I the only one who thought of this song when I heard about the new Sine player? Or am I just that much of a OT fan?


----------



## staypuft

EDit// made a whoopsie and was reminded //not by OT!!! that I shouldn´t talk about other products on the commercial announcement page. Apologies


----------



## jononotbono

It’s why I don’t have kids. So I can justify the holes in my shoes.


----------



## Loïc D

staypuft said:


> Real talk: how much of an overlap do you think JXLB is if you already have Berlin Brass, Cinematic Studio Brass, BBCSO, Caspian, HWB, Century Brass or any combination of the above?
> 
> I´m seeing a bunch of you freaking out and talking about getting in debt to buy the shiny new thing when you probably have more than enough. Think smart...no library is worth having your kid running around with a hole in his shoe


Got none of them.
You totally convinced me to buy then


----------



## InLight-Tone

Wow, tough crowd, sorry Tom...


----------



## Drundfunk

staypuft said:


> Real talk: how much of an overlap do you think JXLB is if you already have Berlin Brass, Cinematic Studio Brass, BBCSO, Caspian, HWB, Century Brass or any combination of the above?
> 
> I´m seeing a bunch of you freaking out and talking about getting in debt to buy the shiny new thing when you probably have more than enough. Think smart...no library is worth having your kid running around with a hole in his shoe


That's why I don't buy shoes for my kids. If there are no shoes, there can't be holes. Also, I hope that not everyone is buying this library, otherwise we'll all have the same sounding brass xD


----------



## jononotbono

Drundfunk said:


> Also, I hope that not everyone is buying this library, otherwise we'll all have the same sounding brass xD



That’s why it’s important to buy them all 😂


----------



## Real JXL

Dear sample friends! I love to read all the comments here! It takes me back in the day when I started to buy gear... please let me indulge you... So, things were way more expensive in the early 80’s. To buy a decent synth or sampler you needed at least 3000$ or more... So I would go from music shop to music shop... Internet was not a thing and hardware synth or sampler you could NOT download from your couch! Also every shop was or was not a dealer for a specific synth! One music store was a Yahama dealer eg dx7... others were Roland dealers eg Juno 106 or JP8... Others did Korg... Others did Kawai and so forth.... My super hard earned dollars were burning in my wallet! But what to buy? You collected brochures... went to live shows and talked to keyboards players... go to industry shows like Namm... or equivalents in the rest of the world... One box offered this But not That? Others offered That but not This? Aaaaggghhhh WHAT TO DO???

I went through this for years and years!

Let’s appreciate a few new things here for all of us before we buy anything;

WE HAVE INTERNET!!!!

We can listen to high quality demo’s
We can watch the plugin in action
We can watch tutorials 
We can join forums to discuss
We can read online the features
We can enjoy how much cheaper everything is

Ok, those are the benefits now compared to 83

But!!!! The money you’re about to spend is your hard earned money! You made it on your own and your about to spend it on something! 

You deserve the highest honor if you do so on any library! That company should really acknowledge your loyalty for doing so.

They should deliver top notch products with no failures. Or at least fantastic customer service! And keep you informed on updates.

In 82 the scrutiny on hardware synths and samplers were insane... Once you roll out it better be fucking perfect because there is no online firmware or software update...

In 2019 people tend to roll out stuff that shouldn’t be released in the first place... 

Sure, let’s take all our first buyers as guinny pigs or beta testers and lets see from there.... that’s NOT the way forward

Long story short;

I admire the brutal criticism on this forum! Hell yeah! Its your hard earned hundreds of dollars! I would be too!

I also admire the love of fans from the start! It’s your hundreds of dollars too!

All I can say is that I put all the energy I had to make this a stellar library for you guys!

I am a solid guy. The OT guys are rock solid guys.

We want to make you kings of brass writing! Kings of brass production!

We will be there with you all the time to improve our product! We listen to what say to make things better!

I’ve been interactive from the start to get your guys input and a lot of it is in here.

For starters join me coming monday 8am pst for a youtube live on my channel...

Ask any question and I will answer it with the whole library loaded for playback and show casing!

Whether you bitch or you love... to me you’re all the same! You’re passionate music lovers programmers composers! And your opinion matters!

But please... lets be happy its 2019 and not 1982!!

Big hug to you all!

Xxx

Tom


----------



## Drundfunk

Real JXL said:


> Dear sample friends! I love to read all the comments here! It takes me back in the day when I started to buy gear... please let me indulge you... So, things were way more expensive in the early 80’s. To buy a decent synth or sampler you needed at least 3000$ or more... So I would go from music shop to music shop... Internet was not a thing and hardware synth or sampler you could NOT download from your couch! Also every shop was or was not a dealer for a specific synth! One music store was a Yahama dealer eg dx7... others were Roland dealers eg Juno 106 or JP8... Others did Korg... Others did Kawai and so forth.... My super hard earned dollars were burning in my wallet! But what to buy? You collected brochures... went to live shows and talked to keyboards players... go to industry shows like Namm... or equivalents in the rest of the world... One box offered this But not That? Others offered That but not This? Aaaaggghhhh WHAT TO DO???
> 
> I went through this for years and years!
> 
> Let’s appreciate a few new things here for all of us before we buy anything;
> 
> WE HAVE INTERNET!!!!
> 
> We can listen to high quality demo’s
> We can watch the plugin in action
> We can watch tutorials
> We can join forums to discuss
> We can read online the features
> We can enjoy how much cheaper everything is
> 
> Ok, those are the benefits now compared to 83
> 
> But!!!! The money you’re about to spend is your hard earned money! You made it on your own and your about to spend it on something!
> 
> You deserve the highest honor if you do so on any library! That company should really acknowledge your loyalty for doing so.
> 
> They should deliver top notch products with no failures. Or at least fantastic customer service! And keep you informed on updates.
> 
> In 82 the scrutiny on hardware synths and samplers were insane... Once you roll out it better be fucking perfect because there is no online firmware or software update...
> 
> In 2019 people tend to roll out stuff that shouldn’t be released in the first place...
> 
> Sure, let’s take all our first buyers as guinny pigs or beta testers and lets see from there.... that’s NOT the way forward
> 
> Long story short;
> 
> I admire the brutal criticism on this forum! Hell yeah! Its your hard earned hundreds of dollars! I would be too!
> 
> I also admire the love of fans from the start! It’s your hundreds of dollars too!
> 
> All I can say is that I put all the energy I had to make this a stellar library for you guys!
> 
> I am a solid guy. The OT guys are rock solid guys.
> 
> We want to make you kings of brass writing! Kings of brass production!
> 
> We will be there with you all the time to improve our product! We listen to what say to make things better!
> 
> I’ve been interactive from the start to get your guys input and a lot of it is in here.
> 
> For starters join me coming monday 8am pst for a youtube live on my channel...
> 
> Ask any question and I will answer it with the whole library loaded for playback and show casing!
> 
> Whether you bitch or you love... to me you’re all the same! You’re passionate music lovers programmers composers! And your opinion matters!
> 
> But please... lets be happy its 2019 and not 1982!!
> 
> Big hug to you all!
> 
> Xxx
> 
> Tom


Well what can I say Tom. I was intrigued when it was announced, little bit skeptical after the teaser, intrigued by Sine, more intrigued after your demo and sold on the library after Walkthrough #2. Could you please clarify if your Youtube live is the same as your Masterclass or are those different? If yes, how will they differ?


----------



## Nemoy

Thanks Tom and Orchestral Tools. Quick question. So I am on Windows 7 PC. Will the Sine player work flawlessly on it or is it mandatory that I be on a Windows 10 system as it mentions only Windows 10 is officially supported? Thanks again.


----------



## Real JXL

Drundfunk said:


> Well what can I say Tom. I was intrigued when it was announced, little bit skeptical after the teaser, intrigued by Sine, more intrigued after your demo and sold on the library after Walkthrough #2. Could you please clarify if your Youtube live is the same as your Masterclass or are those different? If yes, how will they differ?




Its not... its an introduction by me with sounds on hand snd answering questions about the library


----------



## Real JXL

Nemoy said:


> Thanks Tom and Orchestral Tools. Quick question. So I am on Windows 7 PC. Will the Sine player work flawlessly on it or is it mandatory that I be on a Windows 10 system as it mentions only Windows 10 is officially supported? Thanks again.




You should be fine but OT will have more details... I’m running it of and old xeon server from 2009 and it’s fine...


----------



## staypuft

Real JXL said:


> Dear sample friends! I love to read all the comments here! It takes me back in the day when I started to buy gear... please let me indulge you... So, things were way more expensive in the early 80’s. To buy a decent synth or sampler you needed at least 3000$ or more... So I would go from music shop to music shop... Internet was not a thing and hardware synth or sampler you could NOT download from your couch! Also every shop was or was not a dealer for a specific synth! One music store was a Yahama dealer eg dx7... others were Roland dealers eg Juno 106 or JP8... Others did Korg... Others did Kawai and so forth.... My super hard earned dollars were burning in my wallet! But what to buy? You collected brochures... went to live shows and talked to keyboards players... go to industry shows like Namm... or equivalents in the rest of the world... One box offered this But not That? Others offered That but not This? Aaaaggghhhh WHAT TO DO???
> 
> I went through this for years and years!
> 
> Let’s appreciate a few new things here for all of us before we buy anything;
> 
> WE HAVE INTERNET!!!!
> 
> We can listen to high quality demo’s
> We can watch the plugin in action
> We can watch tutorials
> We can join forums to discuss
> We can read online the features
> We can enjoy how much cheaper everything is
> 
> Ok, those are the benefits now compared to 83
> 
> But!!!! The money you’re about to spend is your hard earned money! You made it on your own and your about to spend it on something!
> 
> You deserve the highest honor if you do so on any library! That company should really acknowledge your loyalty for doing so.
> 
> They should deliver top notch products with no failures. Or at least fantastic customer service! And keep you informed on updates.
> 
> In 82 the scrutiny on hardware synths and samplers were insane... Once you roll out it better be fucking perfect because there is no online firmware or software update...
> 
> In 2019 people tend to roll out stuff that shouldn’t be released in the first place...
> 
> Sure, let’s take all our first buyers as guinny pigs or beta testers and lets see from there.... that’s NOT the way forward
> 
> Long story short;
> 
> I admire the brutal criticism on this forum! Hell yeah! Its your hard earned hundreds of dollars! I would be too!
> 
> I also admire the love of fans from the start! It’s your hundreds of dollars too!
> 
> All I can say is that I put all the energy I had to make this a stellar library for you guys!
> 
> I am a solid guy. The OT guys are rock solid guys.
> 
> We want to make you kings of brass writing! Kings of brass production!
> 
> We will be there with you all the time to improve our product! We listen to what say to make things better!
> 
> I’ve been interactive from the start to get your guys input and a lot of it is in here.
> 
> For starters join me coming monday 8am pst for a youtube live on my channel...
> 
> Ask any question and I will answer it with the whole library loaded for playback and show casing!
> 
> Whether you bitch or you love... to me you’re all the same! You’re passionate music lovers programmers composers! And your opinion matters!
> 
> But please... lets be happy its 2019 and not 1982!!
> 
> Big hug to you all!
> 
> Xxx
> 
> Tom



Can´t get more real than that....nothing but respect for you and what you are trying to accomplish Tom! I´m your loudest supporter here, even made some dumb promise to eat my pants if JXLB isn´t legit //......./ but I also had this brief moment of concrn for our fellow struggling composers going broke because of software they may not need, when I shouldn´t really worry, it´s you and OT after all! Great message mate.....one of the best i´v read on this forum


----------



## Raphioli

Real JXL said:


> Dear sample friends! I love to read all the comments here! It takes me back in the day when I started to buy gear... please let me indulge you... So, things were way more expensive in the early 80’s. To buy a decent synth or sampler you needed at least 3000$ or more... So I would go from music shop to music shop... Internet was not a thing and hardware synth or sampler you could NOT download from your couch! Also every shop was or was not a dealer for a specific synth! One music store was a Yahama dealer eg dx7... others were Roland dealers eg Juno 106 or JP8... Others did Korg... Others did Kawai and so forth.... My super hard earned dollars were burning in my wallet! But what to buy? You collected brochures... went to live shows and talked to keyboards players... go to industry shows like Namm... or equivalents in the rest of the world... One box offered this But not That? Others offered That but not This? Aaaaggghhhh WHAT TO DO???
> 
> I went through this for years and years!
> 
> Let’s appreciate a few new things here for all of us before we buy anything;
> 
> WE HAVE INTERNET!!!!
> 
> We can listen to high quality demo’s
> We can watch the plugin in action
> We can watch tutorials
> We can join forums to discuss
> We can read online the features
> We can enjoy how much cheaper everything is
> 
> Ok, those are the benefits now compared to 83
> 
> But!!!! The money you’re about to spend is your hard earned money! You made it on your own and your about to spend it on something!
> 
> You deserve the highest honor if you do so on any library! That company should really acknowledge your loyalty for doing so.
> 
> They should deliver top notch products with no failures. Or at least fantastic customer service! And keep you informed on updates.
> 
> In 82 the scrutiny on hardware synths and samplers were insane... Once you roll out it better be fucking perfect because there is no online firmware or software update...
> 
> In 2019 people tend to roll out stuff that shouldn’t be released in the first place...
> 
> Sure, let’s take all our first buyers as guinny pigs or beta testers and lets see from there.... that’s NOT the way forward
> 
> Long story short;
> 
> I admire the brutal criticism on this forum! Hell yeah! Its your hard earned hundreds of dollars! I would be too!
> 
> I also admire the love of fans from the start! It’s your hundreds of dollars too!
> 
> All I can say is that I put all the energy I had to make this a stellar library for you guys!
> 
> I am a solid guy. The OT guys are rock solid guys.
> 
> We want to make you kings of brass writing! Kings of brass production!
> 
> We will be there with you all the time to improve our product! We listen to what say to make things better!
> 
> I’ve been interactive from the start to get your guys input and a lot of it is in here.
> 
> For starters join me coming monday 8am pst for a youtube live on my channel...
> 
> Ask any question and I will answer it with the whole library loaded for playback and show casing!
> 
> Whether you bitch or you love... to me you’re all the same! You’re passionate music lovers programmers composers! And your opinion matters!
> 
> But please... lets be happy its 2019 and not 1982!!
> 
> Big hug to you all!
> 
> Xxx
> 
> Tom



Much respect and big hugs to you too.
Looking forward to the release!


----------



## Eptesicus

@OrchestralTools

Can you clarify a few things for the pre order? When does the pre order price officially end? Is it at 23.59 on the 15th? Will the price definitely increase on Monday?

Also, how do you intend on keeping the masterclass exclusive to just preorder users? Will it be password protected or something?


----------



## midi-et-quart

David Kudell said:


> Um...so was I the only one who thought of this song when I heard about the new Sine player? Or am I just that much of a OT fan?



That video is hilarious as hell😂


----------



## stargazer

OT_Tobias said:


> There is vibrato crossfade in the Multi Articulation patches, just not in the Single Articulation patches, which is indeed on purpose.


For which instruments did you record vibrato?


----------



## jononotbono

I’m wondering about blending JXLB with other libraries. Was wondering if there would be a chance of perhaps showing some kind of techniques used to blend it with other libraries in the Masterclass? That would be excellent. I love the sound of Air Lyndhurst and the Sound of Teldex (two of the best studios for Orchestral recordings I think) so being able to blend libraries from both would be something I’d seriously value. Of course, I guess I could be called demanding asking this but fuck it, it’s Christmas 😂


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jononotbono said:


> I’m wondering about blending JXLB with other libraries. Was wondering if there would be a chance of perhaps showing some kind of techniques used to blend it with other libraries in the Masterclass? That would be excellent. I love the sound of Air Lyndhurst and the Sound of Teldex (two of the best studios for Orchestral recordings I think) so being able to blend libraries from both would be something I’d seriously value. Of course, I guess I could be called demanding asking this but fuck it, it’s Christmas 😂




its literally a matter of using microphones and a bit of EQ. 90% of the time I hear people having issues with libraries - they just use a single tree mic and wonder why it doesn't sit right


----------



## jononotbono

ProfoundSilence said:


> its literally a matter of using microphones and a bit of EQ. 90% of the time I hear people having issues with libraries - they just use a single tree mic and wonder why it doesn't sit right



Yes but I would like to be shown this by one of the world’s most successful film composers who incidentally created the library he is having a Masterclass for


----------



## ProfoundSilence

attached is an example I slopped together. I'm using cinebrass a6 horns, ark 1 a3 bass bones, CSB a2 tenor bones, spitfire symphonic tuba.

The low dynamic is a little weak and needs volume adjusted for the bones - but it still sounds like a a cohesive enough brass section at full bore.


----------



## jononotbono

ProfoundSilence said:


> attached is an example I slopped together. I'm using cinebrass a6 horns, ark 1 a3 bass bones, CSB a2 tenor bones, spitfire symphonic tuba.
> 
> The low dynamic is a little weak and needs volume adjusted for the bones - but it still sounds like a a cohesive enough brass section at full bore.



Yeah it does sound cohesive. You got any Spitfire Strings you can demonstrate blending, for example, Ark 1 Brass (just to keep it within OT and Teldex)?


----------



## 5Lives

It’d be very customer-friendly if OT extended the pre-order beyond the release date so prospective customers could get some third-party opinions and reviews of the library and SINE.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jononotbono said:


> Yeah it does sound cohesive. You got any Spitfire Strings you can demonstrate i worblending, for example, Ark 1 Brass (just to keep it within OT and Teldex)?



I work overnight so I sleep about nine, already powered off my machine, but yeah. 

send me some midi, I have SCS and SSS

something with 1 articulation, so I can just split the midi channels up and drop the articulation you intended on and I'll put some brass on it tonight.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

5Lives said:


> It’d be very customer-friendly if OT extended the pre-order beyond the release date so prospective customers could get some third-party opinions and reviews of the library and SINE.



I think it would be a much better business move to create a delay plugin that replicates people complaining about the same topics every release XD

worst part is, each company has their own sales strategy, and no matter what they pick someone is unhappy. If your not confident enough to trust the developer it's only going to be like 50$ more to just wait till preorder ends... you just wont get the masterclass


----------



## 5Lives

ProfoundSilence said:


> I think it would be a much better business move to create a delay plugin that replicates people complaining about the same topics every release XD
> 
> worst part is, each company has their own sales strategy, and no matter what they pick someone is unhappy. If your not confident enough to trust the developer it's only going to be like 50$ more to just wait till preorder ends... you just wont get the masterclass



749 is more than $50 more than 499.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

5Lives said:


> 749 is more than $50 more than 499.


its regular price is 749, but generally thru have an intro price after launch for like a month. itll probably be 549 euros until Jan 16th or something.


----------



## jononotbono

ProfoundSilence said:


> I work overnight so I sleep about nine, already powered off my machine, but yeah.
> 
> send me some midi, I have SCS and SSS
> 
> something with 1 articulation, so I can just split the midi channels up and drop the articulation you intended on and I'll put some brass on it tonight.



Don’t worry about it. It’s fine. But thank you.


----------



## staypuft

5Lives said:


> It’d be very customer-friendly if OT extended the pre-order beyond the release date so prospective customers could get some third-party opinions and reviews of the library and SINE.



OT does pre-order price and introductory price, no exceptions afaik. Someone over FB asked, 499€+VAT is the absolute best price you will be able to get this library in a long period. Intro price is also very attractive probably 599€+VAT, if you choose to wait.

Orchestral Tools, Strezov and VSL are the last devs to respect early adopters. I like that.


----------



## Eptesicus

5Lives said:


> It’d be very customer-friendly if OT extended the pre-order beyond the release date so prospective customers could get some third-party opinions and reviews of the library and SINE.



It wouldnt be very customer friendly to those who had already pre-ordered would it. They can't change the deal now, otherwise it would be false advertisement.

Don't get me wrong, i like your suggested way of doing things better (ie to have the lowest price available for a few days/a week after release), but they can't change it now after so many have pre-ordered.


----------



## Drundfunk

5Lives said:


> It’d be very customer-friendly if OT extended the pre-order beyond the release date so prospective customers could get some third-party opinions and reviews of the library and SINE.


That would pretty much ridicule the term "*pre*-order" wouldn't it?


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Eptesicus said:


> It wouldnt be very customer friendly to those who had already pre-ordered would it. They can't change the deal now, otherwise it would be false advertisement.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, i like your suggested way of doing things better (ie to have the lowest price available for a few days/a week after release), but they can't change it now after so many have pre-ordered.


Well they have published a pre-order price and a final price.
An introductino price was never published as far as I can recall.
Therefore nothing can stop OT from saying: Hurray the introduction price is equal to the pre-order price.
I doubt this will happen though.


----------



## Eptesicus

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Well they have published a pre-order price and a final price.
> An introductino price was never published as far as I can recall.
> Therefore nothing can stop OT from saying: Hurray the introduction price is equal to the pre-order price.
> I doubt this will happen though.



Well, there is something stopping them, because it would be false advertisement which a company like OT likely doesn't want to get accused of:

Their page literally says:

*"Take advantage of our pre-order special of €499 +VAT "*


----------



## jononotbono

I was under the impression it would be Pre Order price and once the pre order is over it's just sold for normal price. Are things really more complicated than that?


----------



## Eptesicus

jononotbono said:


> I was under the impression it would be Pre Order price and once the pre order is over it's just sold for normal price. Are things really more complicated than that?



Well, i think there will be an intro price to from what others are saying.


----------



## jononotbono

Eptesicus said:


> Well, i think there will be an intro price to from what others are saying.



Intro price $748


----------



## 5Lives

There’s been no mention of an intro price that is lower than the normal price (but more than the pre-order price), but that’d be nice if there was that option. Also no mention of any Christmas sales and how JXL plays into that.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Eptesicus said:


> Well, there is something stopping them, because it would be false advertisement which a company like OT likely doesn't want to get accused of:
> 
> Their page literally says:
> 
> *"Take advantage of our pre-order special of €499 +VAT "*


This does not even claim to be cheaper than introduction price. According to my logic they could pop in an intro price according to their will.

Sidenote:
OT has done it before. During the release of Time Micro the preorder period was extended beyond the release date.

Anyway let's not start a discussion here. I think OT has been quite constant in their sales/prices/preorder... strategy compared to other companies.


----------



## gjelul

Real JXL said:


> Dear sample friends! I love to read all the comments here! It takes me back in the day when I started to buy gear... please let me indulge you... So, things were way more expensive in the early 80’s. To buy a decent synth or sampler you needed at least 3000$ or more... So I would go from music shop to music shop... Internet was not a thing and hardware synth or sampler you could NOT download from your couch! Also every shop was or was not a dealer for a specific synth! One music store was a Yahama dealer eg dx7... others were Roland dealers eg Juno 106 or JP8... Others did Korg... Others did Kawai and so forth.... My super hard earned dollars were burning in my wallet! But what to buy? You collected brochures... went to live shows and talked to keyboards players... go to industry shows like Namm... or equivalents in the rest of the world... One box offered this But not That? Others offered That but not This? Aaaaggghhhh WHAT TO DO???
> 
> I went through this for years and years!
> 
> Let’s appreciate a few new things here for all of us before we buy anything;
> 
> WE HAVE INTERNET!!!!
> 
> We can listen to high quality demo’s
> We can watch the plugin in action
> We can watch tutorials
> We can join forums to discuss
> We can read online the features
> We can enjoy how much cheaper everything is
> 
> Ok, those are the benefits now compared to 83
> 
> But!!!! The money you’re about to spend is your hard earned money! You made it on your own and your about to spend it on something!
> 
> You deserve the highest honor if you do so on any library! That company should really acknowledge your loyalty for doing so.
> 
> They should deliver top notch products with no failures. Or at least fantastic customer service! And keep you informed on updates.
> 
> In 82 the scrutiny on hardware synths and samplers were insane... Once you roll out it better be fucking perfect because there is no online firmware or software update...
> 
> In 2019 people tend to roll out stuff that shouldn’t be released in the first place...
> 
> Sure, let’s take all our first buyers as guinny pigs or beta testers and lets see from there.... that’s NOT the way forward
> 
> Long story short;
> 
> I admire the brutal criticism on this forum! Hell yeah! Its your hard earned hundreds of dollars! I would be too!
> 
> I also admire the love of fans from the start! It’s your hundreds of dollars too!
> 
> All I can say is that I put all the energy I had to make this a stellar library for you guys!
> 
> I am a solid guy. The OT guys are rock solid guys.
> 
> We want to make you kings of brass writing! Kings of brass production!
> 
> We will be there with you all the time to improve our product! We listen to what say to make things better!
> 
> I’ve been interactive from the start to get your guys input and a lot of it is in here.
> 
> For starters join me coming monday 8am pst for a youtube live on my channel...
> 
> Ask any question and I will answer it with the whole library loaded for playback and show casing!
> 
> Whether you bitch or you love... to me you’re all the same! You’re passionate music lovers programmers composers! And your opinion matters!
> 
> But please... lets be happy its 2019 and not 1982!!
> 
> Big hug to you all!
> 
> Xxx
> 
> Tom





I have to say, I'm impressed with the backing that Tom is providing for the JXL Brass library. I do not remember HZ getting involved as much, or in such a way, in support of similar products SF created bearing his name -- I am not saying this is bad. It simply tells a lot about Tom and his generosity with all the time explaining and supporting the library. Hat's off big time!

Once more about the library:
The Walkthrough 2 showed me everything I needed to know about it. The articulation consistency + the dynamic layers + the sound of the library (Teldex) + the Sine player is a combination tough to beat. And with Tom's 100% involvement and vouching and @ $550 this library is looking like a steal. 

If one has only 1-2 brass libraries this library should be a 'no brainer.' For others like me, with 8-10 brass libraries, bought over the years on the promise that this or that library is something "that has never been heard before," with templates already set, it's normal to be a bit reluctant, especially when OT already has a great brass library of their own. 

My mind hasn't changed on the 'handicap' that JXL Brass has on the lack of the single instruments. I do think it is silly to play a 4 voice chord on the a4 Trombones (4 x 4 = 16 trombones -- see W2 @ around 10:30.) Imagine when you add to this other brass instruments, be that lines or chords, you'll easily end up with a 50 + player brass section. It may sound 'good,' and big, and loud, and deep, and ready to take you on a trip to planet Mars, but simply put, it is not realistic. Issues about balance with other sections will be created, and time will be needed to address that. Let alone, the fact that if you want to write a simple 4 voice Hn harmony, you simply can't. The 'yes, you can' argument is 'you can with the Solo x 4.' Not ideal imo... But then the other argument is why do i need these a4, a6, a12 and so on when I can achieve an a4 section easily with Hn1+2+3+4, or an a8 Hn section with Hn 1+2+3+4 + a4 Hn patch (already in Berlin Brass.)

So, it's a question of preference and what each developer package provides.
Tom has made clear that this library is conceived based on how he sees what's missing from other brass libraries, how he likes to work with brass and what brass should be in his workflow. This is a huge consideration while looking at this library.

Imo, if JXL Brass had the Hn 2, 3, 4 / Tpt 2, 3, and so on / a-la Berlin Brass, in addition to what it is now, it would have been the one brass library to rule them all! Only such a package would have made me really excited, 100% convinced about my purchase, and ready to put the time to replace everything in my template without any doubt whatsoever. 

But it doesn't, so... 

I will probably end up getting it tomorrow. Will it replace what I have and use? No...
For the reasons above (the Teldex sound, Tom's involvement / effort, support for OT as a developer, pre-order price, etc.) it will be a purchase as an addition and as 'to have.' 

I am a brass player myself, life is better with more brass...


----------



## Real JXL

gjelul said:


> I have to say, I'm impressed with the backing that Tom is providing for the JXL Brass library. I do not remember HZ getting involved as much, or in such a way, in support of similar products SF created bearing his name -- I am not saying this is bad. It simply tells a lot about Tom and his generosity with all the time explaining and supporting the library. Hat's off big time!
> 
> Once more about the library:
> The Walkthrough 2 showed me everything I needed to know about it. The articulation consistency + the dynamic layers + the sound of the library (Teldex) + the Sine player is a combination tough to beat. And with Tom's 100% involvement and vouching and @ $550 this library is looking like a steal.
> 
> If one has only 1-2 brass libraries this library should be a 'no brainer.' For others like me, with 8-10 brass libraries, bought over the years on the promise that this or that library is something "that has never been heard before," with templates already set, it's normal to be a bit reluctant, especially when OT already has a great brass library of their own.
> 
> My mind hasn't changed on the 'handicap' that JXL Brass has on the lack of the single instruments. I do think it is silly to play a 4 voice chord on the a4 Trombones (4 x 4 = 16 trombones -- see W2 @ around 10:30.) Imagine when you add to this other brass instruments, be that lines or chords, you'll easily end up with a 50 + player brass section. It may sound 'good,' and big, and loud, and deep, and ready to take you on a trip to planet Mars, but simply put, it is not realistic. Issues about balance with other sections will be created, and time will be needed to address that. Let alone, the fact that if you want to write a simple 4 voice Hn harmony, you simply can't. The 'yes, you can' argument is 'you can with the Solo x 4.' Not ideal imo... But then the other argument is why do i need these a4, a6, a12 and so on when I can achieve an a4 section easily with Hn1+2+3+4, or an a8 Hn section with Hn 1+2+3+4 + a4 Hn patch (already in Berlin Brass.)
> 
> So, it's a question of preference and what each developer package provides.
> Tom has made clear that this library is conceived based on how he sees what's missing from other brass libraries, how he likes to work with brass and what brass should be in his workflow. This is a huge consideration while looking at this library.
> 
> Imo, if JXL Brass had the Hn 2, 3, 4 / Tpt 2, 3, and so on / a-la Berlin Brass, in addition to what it is now, it would have been the one brass library to rule them all! Only such a package would have made me really excited, 100% convinced about my purchase, and ready to put the time to replace everything in my template without any doubt whatsoever.
> 
> But it doesn't, so...
> 
> I will probably end up getting it tomorrow. Will it replace what I have and use? No...
> For the reasons above (the Teldex sound, Tom's involvement / effort, support for OT as a developer, pre-order price, etc.) it will be a purchase as an addition and as 'to have.'
> 
> I am a brass player myself, life is better with more brass...



Life is better with more Brass!! And also I am gonna say what comes next but we are all thinking how to make this library absolutely complete! So... Stay tuned!


----------



## Real JXL

Real JXL said:


> Life is better with more Brass!! And also I am gonna say what comes next but we are all thinking how to make this library absolutely complete! So... Stay tuned!



I meant I am NOT gonna say what comes next...


----------



## matthieuL

Maybe I missed something in the walkthroughs, but did someone saw a trill performed with "fast runs" legato ?
Tom, did you try it ? (if yes, with which articulation ?)


----------



## jbuhler

Eptesicus said:


> It wouldnt be very customer friendly to those who had already pre-ordered would it. They can't change the deal now, otherwise it would be false advertisement.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, i like your suggested way of doing things better (ie to have the lowest price available for a few days/a week after release), but they can't change it now after so many have pre-ordered.


They did it for Time Micro... I can't remember a library OT released that did not have an introductory price that lasted for several weeks after the pre-order price expired.


----------



## Anthony N.Putson

Awesome work Tom and OT! Working on Minecraft Dungeons at the moment but not on music duties. I’m hoping next year one of my other projects ramps where this will be top of the pile when it comes to “gearing up”!


----------



## Maxime Luft

gjelul said:


> I have to say, I'm impressed with the backing that Tom is providing for the JXL Brass library. I do not remember HZ getting involved as much, or in such a way, in support of similar products SF created bearing his name -- I am not saying this is bad. It simply tells a lot about Tom and his generosity with all the time explaining and supporting the library. Hat's off big time!
> 
> Once more about the library:
> The Walkthrough 2 showed me everything I needed to know about it. The articulation consistency + the dynamic layers + the sound of the library (Teldex) + the Sine player is a combination tough to beat. And with Tom's 100% involvement and vouching and @ $550 this library is looking like a steal.
> 
> If one has only 1-2 brass libraries this library should be a 'no brainer.' For others like me, with 8-10 brass libraries, bought over the years on the promise that this or that library is something "that has never been heard before," with templates already set, it's normal to be a bit reluctant, especially when OT already has a great brass library of their own.
> 
> My mind hasn't changed on the 'handicap' that JXL Brass has on the lack of the single instruments. I do think it is silly to play a 4 voice chord on the a4 Trombones (4 x 4 = 16 trombones -- see W2 @ around 10:30.) Imagine when you add to this other brass instruments, be that lines or chords, you'll easily end up with a 50 + player brass section. It may sound 'good,' and big, and loud, and deep, and ready to take you on a trip to planet Mars, but simply put, it is not realistic. Issues about balance with other sections will be created, and time will be needed to address that. Let alone, the fact that if you want to write a simple 4 voice Hn harmony, you simply can't. The 'yes, you can' argument is 'you can with the Solo x 4.' Not ideal imo... But then the other argument is why do i need these a4, a6, a12 and so on when I can achieve an a4 section easily with Hn1+2+3+4, or an a8 Hn section with Hn 1+2+3+4 + a4 Hn patch (already in Berlin Brass.)
> 
> So, it's a question of preference and what each developer package provides.
> Tom has made clear that this library is conceived based on how he sees what's missing from other brass libraries, how he likes to work with brass and what brass should be in his workflow.  This is a huge consideration while looking at this library.
> 
> Imo, if JXL Brass had the Hn 2, 3, 4 / Tpt 2, 3, and so on / a-la Berlin Brass, in addition to what it is now, it would have been the one brass library to rule them all! Only such a package would have made me really excited, 100% convinced about my purchase, and ready to put the time to replace everything in my template without any doubt whatsoever.
> 
> But it doesn't, so...
> 
> I will probably end up getting it tomorrow. Will it replace what I have and use? No...
> For the reasons above (the Teldex sound, Tom's involvement / effort, support for OT as a developer, pre-order price, etc.) it will be a purchase as an addition and as 'to have.'
> 
> I am a brass player myself, life is better with more brass...



Hey @gjelul , thanks for sharing your thoughts. After having played a bit with the library I can definitely now say that the consistency is what makes it so playable... I actually have never written a brass arrangement so fast (and all on a mobile setup! The usual suspects: with a Macbook Pro & an M32)

Will publish a video on Monday on how I used JXL Brass for that rather spacy / action type of cue.
Cheers 
Maxime


----------



## gjelul

Maxime Luft said:


> Hey @gjelul , thanks for sharing your thoughts. After having played a bit with the library I can definitely now say that the consistency is what makes it so playable... I actually have never written a brass arrangement so fast (and all on a mobile setup! The usual suspects: with a Macbook Pro & an M32)
> 
> Will publish a video on Monday on how I used JXL Brass for that rather spacy / action type of cue.
> Cheers
> Maxime



Hi Maxime,
Great to hear -- looking forward to seeing the video on how you've incorporated it in your workflow.
Thank you in advance!


----------



## Eptesicus

jbuhler said:


> They did it for Time Micro... I can't remember a library OT released that did not have an introductory price that lasted for several weeks after the pre-order price expired.



Ay? So the time macro pre order price was the same as the intro price?


----------



## jbuhler

Eptesicus said:


> Ay? So the time macro pre order price was the same as the intro price?


No, they extended the preorder price for Time Micro after it was released. Don’t remember how long since I purchased on preorder. Normally price goes up roughly 50€ after release for intro pricing. Because this is more expensive maybe this one will go up 100€. Then full price 2 weeks to a month or so after release.


----------



## staypuft

I was told it won´t get extended. I´m just not sure if the price will go up to 749€ without an intro period....based on previous releases I don´t think it will so you should be good for a while.

Tom´s tracks and walkthrough videos had enough content to make an informed decision...now it´s up for the users to not ruin it lol


----------



## Real JXL

jononotbono said:


> I’m wondering about blending JXLB with other libraries. Was wondering if there would be a chance of perhaps showing some kind of techniques used to blend it with other libraries in the Masterclass? That would be excellent. I love the sound of Air Lyndhurst and the Sound of Teldex (two of the best studios for Orchestral recordings I think) so being able to blend libraries from both would be something I’d seriously value. Of course, I guess I could be called demanding asking this but fuck it, it’s Christmas 😂




First there is a youtube live Monday morning at 8am PST for everyone... the masterclass is ONLY for the pre orders peeps...

Blending libraries is what I do ALL the time... if its mine or another company... I even took the effort to resample cinematic string with new processing and build completely new instruments! Very time consuming but worth it! Blending is all about EQ; compression or multi band compression and reverbs and early reflection settings on delay or reverbs... the combination of it all will blend all of it together as if it was recorded in the same room... This though takes mixing skills and like composition and orchestration and engineering it takes years and years of doing it.... I can though show some quick tips in a studio time episode...

Good question though!!


----------



## Real JXL

Maxime Luft said:


> Hey @gjelul , thanks for sharing your thoughts. After having played a bit with the library I can definitely now say that the consistency is what makes it so playable... I actually have never written a brass arrangement so fast (and all on a mobile setup! The usual suspects: with a Macbook Pro & an M32)
> 
> Will publish a video on Monday on how I used JXL Brass for that rather spacy / action type of cue.
> Cheers
> Maxime



That’s so awesome! Looking forward!


----------



## JF

Another order here, Tom. Happy to see a brass library done without corners cut!


----------



## Peter Satera

Real JXL said:


> First there is a youtube live Monday morning at 8am PST for everyone... the masterclass is ONLY for the pre orders peeps...
> 
> Blending libraries is what I do ALL the time... if its mine or another company... I even took the effort to resample cinematic string with new processing and build completely new instruments! Very time consuming but worth it! Blending is all about EQ; compression or multi band compression and reverbs and early reflection settings on delay or reverbs... the combination of it all will blend all of it together as if it was recorded in the same room... This though takes mixing skills and like composition and orchestration and engineering it takes years and years of doing it.... I can though show some quick tips in a studio time episode...
> 
> Good question though!!



It would be superb to see these mixing concepts used in a studio time. If you don't mind two questions:

1. Many of us have heard you mention the resampling process of cinematic strings. What did you feel was lacking that required alteration?

2. JXL brass looks and sounds awesome. You have turned to Cinebrass previously for low effects, e.g. Batman v Superman where they play low register staccato, which is then recorded live. Is there any possibility that effects, crescendo, etc will be added to JXL Brass, to have consistency in mic/mix?.


----------



## jononotbono

Real JXL said:


> First there is a youtube live Monday morning at 8am PST for everyone... the masterclass is ONLY for the pre orders peeps...
> 
> Blending libraries is what I do ALL the time... if its mine or another company... I even took the effort to resample cinematic string with new processing and build completely new instruments! Very time consuming but worth it! Blending is all about EQ; compression or multi band compression and reverbs and early reflection settings on delay or reverbs... the combination of it all will blend all of it together as if it was recorded in the same room... This though takes mixing skills and like composition and orchestration and engineering it takes years and years of doing it.... I can though show some quick tips in a studio time episode...
> 
> Good question though!!



Man, that would be so amazing! And your studio time videos are just excellent. Learned so much from them and you are so generous with your knowledge and time. I’m not alone in thinking this! Thank you so much.

I often hear people say they resample whole libraries. I know Charlie Clouser has said he does this on VI-C and I’ve always been interested in how somebody even does that. I mean, every single sample, dynamic layer and how someone can even do that is something I just don’t know how to do. And it makes so much sense to individualise samples that everybody has. And I wonder about the scripting in a library that’s being resampled. Whether that all stays the same (especially when locked) and then reimporting thousands and thousands of samples. I can only imagine it’s a huge job. And maintaining quality and consistency upon resampling.

I've just pre-ordered and it feels like Christmas is finally here. Only taken years for that feeling to come back!


----------



## jononotbono

Maxime Luft said:


> & an M32)



I hate to say this... but its the best Keyboard I've ever used! 
I mean, it sucks and you can't really play anything and it's frustrating but it works and fits in my bag. Then you bother to upgrade to the Kontrol S88 or splash out further and get a Doepfer LMK4+ or something else and bar having more keys so you can play on full sized keys and full range, the reaction is still the same... "Meh". 

Exciting to know your thoughts on JXLB!


----------



## artomatic

I have so many brass libraries that I promised myself to not get another... but when I saw/heard the walkthrough, I couldn’t resist!
There goes my budget for Valentine’s Day!


----------



## jononotbono

artomatic said:


> I have so many brass libraries that I promised myself to not get another... but when I saw/heard the walkthrough, I couldn’t resist!
> There goes my budget for Valentine’s Day!


It will be an amazing moment when your partner reveals they have bought you JXL Brass on Valentines Day. At least you can both have a license. True Love.


----------



## Zedcars

JF said:


> Another order here, Tom. Happy to see a brass library done without corners cut!


No mutes or real cresc/dim. Otherwise, very comprehensive.

Latest walkthrough has an impressive sound. Great control and options within the interface. I’ve pre-ordered.

Edit: I should add that I’m not so much moaning as just stating a fact. This is comparatively a very good price. I guess, as others have already said, mutes may come later. Remains to be seen if the x-fading is enough to cover a lack of cresc/dim.

On the whole I’m very positive about this release.


----------



## Fry777

The second walkthrough sounds amazing...
As a side note, has anybody managed to put several items in the cart on the new OT website ?

It seems the website only works as "one item per order", the problem is that makes the Inspire vouchers unusable for this pre-order (valid for orders of 600 euros minimum)

@OrchestralTools @OT_Tobias any solution to this ? your support told me to enter the code in the voucher field but it seems there's a misunderstanding about the actual problem, which is putting several items at the same time in the shopping cart


----------



## BowsToHymns

Hey folks,

we were honored to write a demo track for and with the upcoming OT JXL Brass Library and we are allowed to present a small snippet of it here  We hope this gives another idea of the library. We are impressed by the variety of articulations and the amazing sound and playability of this release! The full track will follow soon!



All the best,

Helge and Thomas
___________________
www.bowstohymns.com


----------



## Maxime Luft

jononotbono said:


> I hate to say this... but its the best Keyboard I've ever used!
> I mean, it sucks and you can't really play anything and it's frustrating but it works and fits in my bag. Then you bother to upgrade to the Kontrol S88 or splash out further and get a Doepfer LMK4+ or something else and bar having more keys so you can play on full sized keys and full range, the reaction is still the same... "Meh".
> 
> Exciting to know your thoughts on JXLB!


Haha couldn't agree more, the M32 is still quite a special thing really. 
I just rendered the video, will post it here on VI-C once it's finished


----------



## Tice

BowsToHymns said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> we were honored to write a demo track for and with the upcoming OT JXL Brass Library and we are allowed to present a small snippet of it here  We hope this gives another idea of the library. We are impressed by the variety of articulations and the amazing sound and playability of this release! The full track will follow soon!
> 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Helge and Thomas
> ___________________
> www.bowstohymns.com



I can't help but notice how incredibly bright this mix is. There's a lot going on in a narrow band of the pitch range. Don't get me wrong, I love the composition. I just notice how this level of brightness needs to be taken into account when using this library.


----------



## jononotbono

BowsToHymns said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> we were honored to write a demo track for and with the upcoming OT JXL Brass Library and we are allowed to present a small snippet of it here  We hope this gives another idea of the library. We are impressed by the variety of articulations and the amazing sound and playability of this release! The full track will follow soon!
> 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Helge and Thomas
> ___________________
> www.bowstohymns.com




Man, this is great. Even more excited about tomorrow now!


----------



## staypuft

Not a clever idea to write for 12 horns, 6 trumpets, 15 bones, 3 cimbassi and a tuba all fff with no separation...sorry but as a demo track it does not work well unless the purpose was to show how agony sounds like.

And so it begins....


----------



## BowsToHymns

jononotbono said:


> Man, this is great. Even more excited about tomorrow now!


Thanks Luke, that is very much appreciated!


----------



## BowsToHymns

staypuft said:


> Not a clever idea to write for 12 horns, 6 trumpets, 15 bones, 3 cimbassi and a tuba all fff with no separation...sorry but as a demo track it does not work well unless the purpose was to show how agony sounds like.
> 
> And so it begins....


Haha  So maybe the other parts of the final track will rescue from agony


----------



## Eptesicus

BowsToHymns said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> we were honored to write a demo track for and with the upcoming OT JXL Brass Library and we are allowed to present a small snippet of it here  We hope this gives another idea of the library. We are impressed by the variety of articulations and the amazing sound and playability of this release! The full track will follow soon!
> 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Helge and Thomas
> ___________________
> www.bowstohymns.com




Not a massive fan of this to be honest. Sorry.

This seems to go back to the synthetic sound of the first teaser which i did not like. 

The trailer demo and walkthough demonstrate a much more realistic and organic sound.


----------



## gjelul

BowsToHymns said:


> Haha  So maybe the other parts of the final track will rescue from agony



Hm...

I do not understand why publish a demo of a product that is not released yet, when the track is not in its final form? I get the excitement of having access to a new product... but compared to the other materials released (JXL official demo + the Walkthrough 2) this must be a joke... unbelievable 

I did pre-order and I am sure (again based on the JXL official demo + the Walkthrough 2) the library sounds way different, regardless of how many parts this short demo track will have...

And so it begins again...


----------



## Leo

Please someone do less epic demo, or in general - at all not epic demo.
I 10.min ago pre-ordered, and I just got a little scared.
Please Sascha Knorr, please! --- you are my personal hero!
write something..


----------



## Raphioli

I'd probably push it more back and add reverb for my taste, but I'm in love with the tone of the horns and the trumpet.


----------



## stargazer

Was just about to order... a bit confused right now.


----------



## Tonysound

This is what I was waiting for!


----------



## bfreepro

Tonysound said:


> This is what I was waiting for!


It's said "available SOON" for a few hours now for me haha I am refreshing every 5 minutes


----------



## ProfoundSilence

it's like csb horns in the sense that if you write with the mod wheel maxed out it'll sound like angry bees

I think most people arent used to NOT reaching for the top of the mod wheel with brass libraries


----------



## SZK-Max

Twelve hours named "Soon".


----------



## turnerofwheels

It's 5 am in Germany right now so I'd give em a few hours yet


----------



## Zedcars

ProfoundSilence said:


> it's like csb horns in the sense that if you write with the mod wheel maxed out it'll sound like angry bees



The reason they’re angry is because Tom threatened them with his trumpet in B flat.

Ba dum tsh!


----------



## Virtuoso

...sorry!


----------



## staypuft

I got an email a couple hours ago,they are probably rolling out the links in batches?
While you wait....enjoy!


----------



## bfreepro

staypuft said:


> I got an email a couple hours ago,they are probably rolling out the links in batches?
> While you wait....enjoy!


You bastard 😂


----------



## ProfoundSilence

staypuft said:


> I got an email a couple hours ago,they are probably rolling out the links in batches?
> While you wait....enjoy!


what mics did you use for the tuba? the low end is punchy, it has a nice cut to it and its thicc without adding any mud. 

or are you not willing to give that up


----------



## davidson

There's no NKS compatibility with the sine player, right? @OrchestralTools Any plans to add it in the future?


----------



## dcoscina

Damn we got Rick-rolled! Lol


----------



## JazzDude

in the meantime, while waiting, start listening how Horns really sound:


----------



## ProfoundSilence

instructions unclear, pre-ordered glory days


----------



## Eptesicus

Will the live stream today be recorded/available to watch later this evening? 

Not sure I will be able to watch it live :(


----------



## GingerMaestro

I missed the advertisement about the Live Stream.. Is this the official Launch ? What time is this going down ? Thanks G


----------



## lucor

GingerMaestro said:


> I missed the advertisement about the Live Stream.. Is this the official Launch ? What time is this going down ? Thanks G


In 35min! And yeah, I hope that's when we'll get our download links.


----------



## bvaughn0402

Which livestream? Junkie's YouTube? Or the Masterclass?


----------



## Robin




----------



## ProfoundSilence

this is the absolute latest I can stay up. 

good to know i'll be falling asleep just as the great dane gets one the airwaves.


----------



## Eptesicus

So will we able to watch this later or is it live only. Anyone know?


----------



## Uiroo

staypuft said:


> I got an email a couple hours ago,they are probably rolling out the links in batches?
> While you wait....enjoy!


May 1000 angry brass bees haunt you!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Eptesicus said:


> So will we able to watch this later or is it live only. Anyone know?


typically youtube let's you watch later unless they make it private randomly


----------



## Eptesicus

Hehe, doing a bit of Bondesque stuff.

Sounds brilliant.


----------



## turnerofwheels

Aggggh I put in a last minute preorder. 
My poor wallet and oh so happy ears.


----------



## OrchestralTools

Hey everyone,

We’ve decided to postpone the release of Junkie XL Brass and the SINE player until tomorrow.

Although the player and library are ready to go, we discovered an online connection issue during final testing today. We need a few additional hours to solve this and ensure a proper download experience.

On the plus side, the pre-order price and masterclass offer will be extended until tomorrow’s release.We hope you understand this decision.
Thank you for your patience, and we’re looking forward to releasing Junkie XL Brass and SINE tomorrow.

Best,

OT Team


----------



## Tilt & Flow

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> We’ve decided to postpone the release of Junkie XL Brass and the SINE player until tomorrow.
> 
> Although the player and library are ready to go, we discovered an online connection issue during final testing today. We need a few additional hours to solve this and ensure a proper download experience.
> 
> On the plus side, the pre-order price and masterclass offer will be extended until tomorrow’s release.We hope you understand this decision.
> Thank you for your patience, and we’re looking forward to releasing Junkie XL Brass and SINE tomorrow.
> 
> Best,
> 
> OT Team


----------



## jononotbono

Thank tits. I can finally stop refreshing the page!


----------



## synthetic

Hah, I can stop refreshing the page for a few hours. Thanks for the update. 

SOOOOOOON


----------



## Living Fossil

OrchestralTools said:


> We’ve decided to postpone the release of Junkie XL Brass and the SINE player until tomorrow.



A quick note about the RAM footprint of Sine (when purged) would be nice nevertheless.
It's the 3rd time i ask (with no answer so far)

Maybe you could answer this time.
Or at least state that the purge function is not optimised yet and therefore you prefer not to answer.


----------



## axb312

@OrchestralTools @Real JXL mentioned in his YouTube live that here is a possibility of upgrades to the library to add kissing articulations.. Would these upgrades be paid or free?


----------



## jononotbono

axb312 said:


> @OrchestralTools @Real JXL mentioned in his YouTube live that here is a possibility of upgrades to the library to add kissing articulations.. Would these upgrades be paid or free?



Considering none of the Berlin Expansions are free, I struggle to understand how anything added to JXLB would be free.


----------



## Zedcars

jononotbono said:


> Thank tits. I can finally stop refreshing the page!


If I had some tits to thank I would definitely be thanking them right now.


----------



## jononotbono

Zedcars said:


> If I had some tits to thank I would definitely be thanking them right now.



You need to spend more time in front of Cubase and less time looking after yourself for god sake. 😂


----------



## Eptesicus

jononotbono said:


> Considering none of the Berlin Expansions are free, I struggle to understand how anything added to JXLB would be free.



Well, I think it would be nice to reward existing customers. It isn't like it's a cheap library, and it is missing some very common articulations like flutter tongues and trills. Those two especially should be bread and butter stuff for a brass library that's marketed towards film/cinematic music. I'm surprised by their omission.

Other developers release stuff for free. VSL have with Synchron strings, Spitfire have with HZ strings and the infinite series releaes all updates and new instruments for free to those that have bought the library.

I could maybe understand a muted expansion being paid if it is done as comprehensively for all the sections included in the base library with the same dynamic layers etc.

If I was an owner I would be a little peeved to have to shell out extra for trills and flutters though.


----------



## Consona

Do the legato and runs legato have round robins, so when playing fast repeated lines it does not trigger the same legato samples? And do the sustains have RR?


----------



## gjelul

axb312 said:


> @OrchestralTools @Real JXL mentioned in his YouTube live that here is a possibility of upgrades to the library to add kissing articulations.. Would these upgrades be paid or free?




He mentioned these packages will be available at some point as a separate thing. Most likely means $


----------



## OrchestralTools

Living Fossil said:


> A quick note about the RAM footprint of Sine (when purged) would be nice nevertheless.
> It's the 3rd time i ask (with no answer so far)
> 
> Maybe you could answer this time.
> Or at least state that the purge function is not optimised yet and therefore you prefer not to answer.


Hey Living Fossil,

The purge functionality in SINE unloads all the loaded sample material from memory.
As soon as you play with the purged articulation, the patch will get loaded.
The purge functionality is rather simple in version 1.0 as it reloads the entire articulation when playing.
We plan to make the reloading on a per sample basis but that’s not implemented yet.
That’s why we don’t advertise it much at this point!

Best,

OT


----------



## David Gosnell

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey Living Fossil,
> 
> The purge functionality in SINE unloads all the loaded sample material from memory.
> As soon as you play with the purged articulation, the patch will get loaded.
> The purge functionality is rather simple in version 1.0 as it reloads the entire articulation when playing.
> We plan to make the reloading on a per sample basis but that’s not implemented yet.
> That’s why we don’t advertise it much at this point!
> 
> Best,
> 
> OT


And the RAM footprint of Sine once you have purged? Is it a significant improvement over Capsule in Kontakt?


----------



## Raphioli

I'm expecting the expansion to be a paid expansion.
Personally, I'm absolutely fine with that. They have to pay their rent too, like myself.
And I definitely would not want them to cut corner for the expansion too.
I don't want them to start cutting corners because users are asking it for free.

So I hope they pay real attention to consistency to their expansion as well.
I am assuming they are also going to sample 5 dynamic layers for whatever additional articulation is going to be sampled.
And I'm hoping changing through articulations between the original library and expansion won't sound like they are coming from a different session or library or player etc.
And also the consistency in sound of the same dynamic layers between different articulations.
By this I mean for example, an "a4 horn sustain in f" and "a4 horn trill in f" being consistently recorded/played, so that it doesn't sound awkward switching between them.
I don't want something like, when you play an "a4 horn sustain in f" and then playing a "a4 horn trill in f" sounding like an "mf" or "ff".
I'm assuming this is a very hard process in sampling. (especially for the players)
But if it is done right, it will be an expansion worth paying for.

So please, I don't care if its a payed expansion, please just don't cut corners 

The original JXL Brass library already sounds very consistent from the walkthrough when switching between various shorts and longs, so I'm assuming the exact same attention would be put in to the expansion as well.


----------



## jononotbono

Raphioli said:


> I'm expecting the expansion to be a paid expansion.
> Personally, I'm absolutely fine with that. They have to pay their rent too, like myself.
> And I definitely would not want them to cut corner for the expansion too.
> I don't want them to start cutting corners because users are asking it for free.
> 
> So I hope they pay real attention to consistency to their expansion as well.
> I am assuming they are also going to sample 5 dynamic layers for whatever additional articulation is going to be sampled.
> And I'm hoping changing through articulations between the original library and expansion won't sound like they are coming from a different session or library or player etc.
> And also the consistency in sound of the same dynamic layers between different articulations.
> By this I mean for example, an "a4 horn sustain in f" and "a4 horn trill in f" being consistently recorded/played, so that it doesn't sound awkward switching between them.
> I don't want something like, when you play an "a4 horn sustain in f" and then playing a "a4 horn trill in f" sounding like an "mf" or "ff".
> I'm assuming this is a very hard process in sampling. (especially for the players)
> But if it is done right, it will be an expansion worth paying for.
> 
> The original JXL Brass library already sounds very consistent from the walkthrough when switching between various shorts and longs, so I'm assuming the exact same attention would be put in to the expansion as well.



Agree with everything you’ve said.


----------



## Eptesicus

Raphioli said:


> I'm expecting the expansion to be a paid expansion.
> Personally, I'm absolutely fine with that. They have to pay their rent too, like myself.
> And I definitely would not want them to cut corner for the expansion too.
> I don't want them to start cutting corners because users are asking it for free.
> 
> So I hope they pay real attention to consistency to their expansion as well.
> I am assuming they are also going to sample 5 dynamic layers for whatever additional articulation is going to be sampled.
> And I'm hoping changing through articulations between the original library and expansion won't sound like they are coming from a different session or library or player etc.
> And also the consistency in sound of the same dynamic layers between different articulations.
> By this I mean for example, an "a4 horn sustain in f" and "a4 horn trill in f" being consistently recorded/played, so that it doesn't sound awkward switching between them.
> I don't want something like, when you play an "a4 horn sustain in f" and then playing a "a4 horn trill in f" sounding like an "mf" or "ff".
> I'm assuming this is a very hard process in sampling. (especially for the players)
> But if it is done right, it will be an expansion worth paying for.
> 
> So please, I don't care if its a payed expansion, please just don't cut corners
> 
> The original JXL Brass library already sounds very consistent from the walkthrough when switching between various shorts and longs, so I'm assuming the exact same attention would be put in to the expansion as well.



Hm, i hope *all *the expansions are not paid, otherwise its going to end up being a prohibitively expensive library.

At full price it is already pretty expensive. If they start charging extras for a few extended articulations, then more for mutes, then more for effects etc where is it going to end up?

If they end up recording all the same section sizes muted, and with legato and with most of the same articulations, then yes obviously that might be pushing things as goodwill/free updates go .

However some extended articulations/a few extra section sizes/instruments added for free for existing users would be a nice touch and would echo what a lot of other developers are doing these days.

I do appreciate the time and money it takes to record new material. However, i think if *everything* is a paid expansion it starts to feel like a money grabbing exercise to see how much can be milked from the users of the library. It will start to feel like the old Sims computer games . I don't (well i hope) that OT and Tom won't want things to come across that way.


----------



## purple

Eptesicus said:


> Hm, i hope *all *the expansions are not paid, otherwise its going to end up being a prohibitively expensive library.
> 
> At full price it is already pretty expensive. If they start charging extras for a few extended articulations, then more for mutes, then more for effects etc where is it going to end up?
> 
> If they end up recording all the same section sizes muted, and with legato and with most of the same articulations, then yes obviously that might be pushing things as goodwill/free updates go .
> 
> However some extended articulations/a few extra section sizes/instruments added for free for existing users would be a nice touch and would echo what a lot of other developers are doing these days.
> 
> I do appreciate the time and money it takes to record new material. However, i think if *everything* is a paid expansion it starts to feel like a money grabbing exercise to see how much can be milked from the users of the library. It will start to feel like the old Sims computer games . I don't (well i hope) that OT and Tom won't want things to come across that way.


I mean, maybe double the price with mutes + fx. But I expect to pay professional money if I want a professional tool, and that's what I would want them to deliver in an expansion. I don't see expansions coming any time soon though. I'd think they would have announced or inferred it by now if it was even in the works.


----------



## synthetic

I thought JXL explained this very well in his YouTube live. You can have deeply-sampled brass (5 layers), lots of alternate playing techniques, or affordable price: pick two. By breaking the alternate techniques into their own library, they can keep this one more affordable. Seems like a great solution to me.


----------



## turnerofwheels

You know you're cool when episode 1 isn't even out yet and folks are already jonesing for a sequel. Well done, OT!


----------



## composingkeys

What are your thoughts on the legato for this library? Are the Interval transitions smooth?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

the issue with the demos is that they attempt to use everything in them - which isn't always how music would be written. 

If you had to compose using 14 different bass instruments(or most of) and some if the uniqueness of the library you'd almost be stuck writing the fff bee simulator

I'd rather hear 6/3/3/1 and soloists personally only saving the bad boi stuff for 1 or 2 demo tracks


----------



## babylonwaves

axb312 said:


> @OrchestralTools @Real JXL upgrades to the library to add kissing articulations.. Would these upgrades be paid or free?



kissing tubas? OMG! Everybody will use that sound - it’s gonna be the new Braaaaam - Take my money, junkie! Can’t wait 🤩


----------



## John R Wilson

synthetic said:


> I thought JXL explained this very well in his YouTube live. You can have deeply-sampled brass (5 layers), lots of alternate playing techniques, or affordable price: pick two. By breaking the alternate techniques into their own library, they can keep this one more affordable. Seems like a great solution to me.




I'm not particularly a fan of this approach. I never liked that cinebrass was split into core and pro versions. I much prefer a single brass library. Also, East West Hollywood Brass is now affordable, deeply sampled and has lot of articulation with alternative techniques.


----------



## BGvanRens

I just preordered this morning. Looking forward to use this product!


----------



## KEM

Can’t seem to download anything...?

Just says “Failing browser integration: Cannot find mic positions by id”


----------



## Bernard Duc

KEM said:


> Can’t seem to download anything...?
> 
> Just says “Failing browser integration: Cannot find mic positions by id”


OT have asked in another thread to not try downloading yet.


----------



## bfreepro

KEM said:


> Can’t seem to download anything...?
> 
> Just says “Failing browser integration: Cannot find mic positions by id”


they are telling no one to download..


----------



## KEM

bfreepro said:


> they are telling no one to download..



Oh alright, didn’t see that thanks for the heads up!


----------



## bfreepro

__





Junkie XL Brass?


I downloaded it anyway, even though I didn't buy JXL Brass... just wanted to stare at an empty player in awe :) Can't wait to port older libraries onto the SINE player as well




vi-control.net





Check this thread 


KEM said:


> Oh alright, didn’t see that thanks for the heads up!


----------



## abrasounds

I guess it’s better for us to just wait until they officially announce that everything is good to go!


----------



## OrchestralTools

We are so excited to finally release Junkie XL Brass and SINE! 
We can't wait to hear what you guys think.

And as an introductory offer, you can now buy Junkie XL Brass for €599 via the Junkie XL Brass product page.

www.jxlbrass.com
http://www.getsine.com (www.getsine.com)


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Hey everyone,

I did a quick step by step installation screencast for you.
It also features the new QuickKits in My Licenses for selecting mic positions.



Best, Hendrik


----------



## Tilt & Flow

OrchestralTools said:


> We are so excited to finally release Junkie XL Brass and SINE!
> We can't wait to hear what you guys think.
> 
> And as an introductory offer, you can now buy Junkie XL Brass for €599 via the Junkie XL Brass product page.
> 
> www.jxlbrass.com
> http://www.getsine.com (www.getsine.com)


So far, loving this library! Nice intuitive GUI, up and running in Logic. Personally, I love the tone and flexibility. Very happy I pre-ordered!


----------



## gjelul

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I did a quick step by step installation screencast for you.
> It also features the new QuickKits in My Licenses for selecting mic positions.
> 
> 
> 
> Best, Hendrik





What collections are available to be added into Sine as of now? 
Is it just the JXL Brass?


----------



## OrchestralTools

gjelul said:


> What collections are available to be added into Sine as of now?
> Is it just the JXL Brass?



For now yes just Junkie XL Brass. We'll be adding our other collections over the next few months and we'll let you know as soon as they're available 

Best,

OT


----------



## gjelul

OrchestralTools said:


> For now yes just Junkie XL Brass. We'll be adding our other collections over the next few months and we'll let you know as soon as they're available
> 
> Best,
> 
> OT




Got it...

In your screencast I see Inspire 1 and Inspire 2, together with Metropolis Ark 1.

Thought we can have what you have


----------



## OT_Tobias

jononotbono said:


> Considering none of the Berlin Expansions are free, I struggle to understand how anything added to JXLB would be free.



We added some articulations to existing collections (Spiccati Exposed in BST) and even a whole free instrument (Bass to the First Chairs), so never say never 


gjelul said:


> Got it...
> 
> In your screencast I see Inspire 1 and Inspire 2, together with Metropolis Ark 1.
> 
> Thought we can have what you have



soon


----------



## C-Wave

OT_Tobias said:


> We added some articulations to existing collections (Spiccati Exposed in BST) and even a whole free instrument (Bass to the First Chairs), so never say never
> 
> 
> soon


as in "we'll never have a sale at OT" ?


----------



## jononotbono

OT_Tobias said:


> We added some articulations to existing collections (Spiccati Exposed in BST) and even a whole free instrument (Bass to the First Chairs), so never say never



Well that's amazing. It's probably a nice thing to say that not everyone is expectant for free stuff! Right, Its time to download JXLB and test out the 1gb Internet Connection!


----------



## gjelul

Ok, now that Sine / JXL Brass is out, and we all barely survived... 

How about a Holiday Sale on the rest of the OT collections?


----------



## jononotbono

gjelul said:


> Ok, now that Sine / JXL Brass is out, and we all barely survived...
> 
> How about a Holiday Sale on the rest of the OT collections?



I'm still rather gutted and slightly bitter about missing out on the 40% off sale last year.


----------



## jononotbono

Ok, so I'm finally downloading. Is there anyway to know an ETA of how long the download will take rather than Orange bars scrolling from left to Right over the mic names?


----------



## Real JXL

Dear Friends! The library is out now and we are all standing with you to get you the best experience of playing and programming.... My friend Conrad Pope and my conductor spend many lovely weeks together in New Zealand to record this Peter Jackson Score and we had a 42 piece brass band... Proper Berlioz style... And I would like to share this link with you why I needed this library and hopefully you too!


----------



## Real JXL

Here another reason why I needed this library... Here a cue for Cameron/Rodriguez Alita.... Also Conducted by my friend Conrad Pope....


----------



## Real JXL

And here the last obvious reason... To have the sound to make this... I have it now and I thank OT for their patience and the players to stick with me to get the result that I wanted out of this library...

Me and OT love all feedback you might have and we will look into it for new creative decisions! Thank you for all honesty and real feedback! Its been a great ride! Big Hug! Tom and OT


----------



## luke_7

This is THE BEST BRASS LIBRARY PERIOD! OT and JXL team You have no idea how much I want to thank you for making my life soooooo easier.


----------



## Noeticus

Here's to one hundred cheers for Tom (Real JXL)!!!!!!
:emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass::emoji_wine_glass:


----------



## germancomponist

Great reasons, Tom. My reason to buy this library is that I always loved big best sounding libs. Let us see, what I will conjure with it. 

BTW: Good work, Sir!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

OT_Tobias said:


> We added some articulations to existing collections (Spiccati Exposed in BST) and even a whole free instrument (Bass to the First Chairs), so never say never
> 
> 
> soon


if there is one thing I would LOVE to be core library is rip transitions when holding a key down. rip transitions between minor 2nd trills a baritone apart ugghh that would scratch my itch


----------



## bfreepro

So far just comparing this with all the other brass libs... god DAMN. Even stuff like Ark 1 and Forzo... this is on another level. Some legato transitions aren't very good but, the sound, tone, range, width... is absolutely insane.


----------



## luke_7

This Sine player is absolutely fantastic, and as much as I love spitfire audio I wish I could say the same about their player...


----------



## bfreepro

luke_7 said:


> This Sine player is absolutely fantastic, and as much as I love spitfire audio I wish I could say the same about their player...


Being able to play the trumpets and bones while the rest downloaded, that was quite a crazy moment haha


----------



## luke_7

bfreepro said:


> Being able to play the trumpets and bones while the rest downloaded, that was quite a crazy moment haha



It's quite funny cause everything that I ever wanted in spitfire audio player I found here in OT Sine Player


----------



## cjbrett22

Anyone else having issues downloading on Sine?
Every time I select what I want to download and click "Download Selected" it instantly closes with a message saying "Sine Player quit unexpectedly".


----------



## bfreepro

cjbrett22 said:


> Anyone else having issues downloading on Sine?
> Every time I select what I want to download and click "Download Selected" it instantly closes with a message saying "Sine Player quit unexpectedly".


I did not have such issues :( you on pc or Mac? I’m sure OT will help you sort this out ASAP. They really seem to have been on top of things with support since it launched


----------



## cjbrett22

bfreepro said:


> I did not have such issues :( you on pc or Mac? I’m sure OT will help you sort this out ASAP. They really seem to have been on top of things with support since it launched


Mac. Yeah I'm sure they will. Just frustrating as I've been out all day and was hoping to install it over night as I went to bed, but hey ho!


----------



## bfreepro

cjbrett22 said:


> Mac. Yeah I'm sure they will. Just frustrating as I've been out all day and was hoping to install it over night as I went to bed, but hey ho!


ugh. I know the feeling


----------



## Loïc D

A suggestion, maybe unrealistic, but hey...

Would it be possible to add a feature to emulate mutes by using IR (before real mutes are added to the collection ).
It would be killer to benefit from mutes IR that we could trigger by CC. 

What guys do you think ?
Is there any good IR mutes ?
(someone posted FF ProQ mutes profiles but it didn't really work with SStB)


----------



## ProfoundSilence

LowweeK said:


> A suggestion, maybe unrealistic, but hey...
> 
> Would it be possible to add a feature to emulate mutes by using IR (before real mutes are added to the collection ).
> It would be killer to benefit from mutes IR that we could trigger by CC.
> 
> What guys do you think ?
> Is there any good IR mutes ?
> (someone posted FF ProQ mutes profiles but it didn't really work with SStB)


I'm sure I could make some presets if needed for FF proQ2 and up, or just make an IR of that, but I can't guarantee it'll sound good. 

I would just make them using berlin brass + expansions to make a L and R preset or impulse. I'm not going to have free time to do that in a billion years but that's how I'd do it.


----------



## OrchestralTools

We are blown away by the responses to Junkie XL Brass, thank you all so much. 
We're loving what you guys have created so far with it and looking forward to hearing more. We've also been working with the library. 
Here's a new video: Orchestral Tools’ Maxime composed this piece using Junkie XL Brass in SINE on his laptop. Not possible, you say? Watch and see...



Thanks for all feature requests too – you’ve given us so many ideas for the next SINE updates.

And remember, if you encounter any issues or need help, please take advantage of our dedicated SINE support: [email protected]
You can also check out https://slack-redir.net/link?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhelpdesk.orchestraltools.com (helpdesk.orchestraltools.com) – we put together the most frequent questions there.

Best,

OT


----------



## Maxime Luft

Real JXL said:


> That’s so awesome! Looking forward!


It's finally there!


----------



## Eptesicus

The biggest technical issue i am having is that it occasionally crashes when unloading a large amount of articulations/samples.

This happens in standalone and also happens in Cubase when closing the project. Its like it gets stuck.

Even more annoying is that you cant kill SINE or Cubase properly to start SINE up again and download stuff/access licenses. If you try and end the process it says "access is denied".

You just have to wait, and eventually the process dissapears. Until then, you can't download anything as SINE thinks you already have another instance open...

It happens when clearing an instrument with loads of mics or closing the program/closing cubase. So its definitely an issue with unloading the samples from ram.


----------



## Tice

I'm really jealous of the people getting to play with this library! Just listening to all the demos and walkthroughs has given me so much inspiration to write with it. I'll have to wait, unfortunately.


----------



## Maxime Luft

Eptesicus said:


> The biggest technical issue i am having is that it occasionally crashes when unloading a large amount of articulations/samples.
> 
> This happens in standalone and also happens in Cubase when closing the project. Its like it gets stuck.
> 
> Even more annoying is that you cant kill SINE or Cubase properly to start SINE up again and download stuff/access licenses. If you try and end the process it says "access is denied".
> 
> You just have to wait, and eventually the process dissapears. Until then, you can't download anything as SINE thinks you already have another instance open...
> 
> It happens when clearing an instrument with loads of mics or closing the program/closing cubase. So its definitely an issue with unloading the samples from ram.


Hey @Eptesicus , we'll definitely take a closer look at your issue. Please send us more specifications about your system and setup to reproduce this problem to [email protected].


----------



## KEM

I have a question, I’m using VEP running into Cubase and I want to have each instrument in one SINE instance on VEP with each instrument on its own midi channel in Cubase, can I do this? Right now I have a separate SINE instance open for each instrument and it’s destroying my memory, I’m getting tons of clicks and pops and I can’t play anything.


----------



## richard kurek

your thoughts on how well would junkie brass blend with Afflatus strings


----------



## bfreepro

richard kurek said:


> your thoughts on how well would junkie brass blend with Afflatus strings


Anything can blend with anything with the right reverb/space! They're recorded in different halls but both recorded in position, just use an algorithmic reverb for both, good to go. Or turn off the reverb in Afflatus and experiment with different IRs, like MIRPro has an IR of the Teldex hall actually.


----------



## richard kurek

bfreepro said:


> Anything can blend with anything with the right reverb/space! They're recorded in different halls but both recorded in position, just use an algorithmic reverb for both, good to go. Or turn off the reverb in Afflatus and experiment with different IRs, like MIRPro has an IR of the Teldex hall actually.


ok then , i like how afflatus sounds , was thinking the libraries are very different , my project is a bucket list and not more than that


----------



## bfreepro

richard kurek said:


> ok then , i like how afflatus sounds , was thinking the libraries are very different , my project is a bucket list and not more than that


I have both, Afflatus is actually really versatile, offering both small intimate sections as well as large, more "epic" sounding sections, and JXL operates the same way, though it goes a bit further on the epic side, but it's really beautiful and soft when it needs to be. Both are very great, versatile libraries that sound amazing


----------



## richard kurek

bfreepro said:


> I have both, Afflatus is actually really versatile, offering both small intimate sections as well as large, more "epic" sounding sections, and JXL operates the same way, though it goes a bit further on the epic side, but it's really beautiful and soft when it needs to be. Both are very great, versatile libraries that sound amazing


thank you for your help then i will purchase the strings


----------



## KEM

KEM said:


> I have a question, I’m using VEP running into Cubase and I want to have each instrument in one SINE instance on VEP with each instrument on its own midi channel in Cubase, can I do this? Right now I have a separate SINE instance open for each instrument and it’s destroying my memory, I’m getting tons of clicks and pops and I can’t play anything.



Ok it’s letting me do it but they’re all coming out of the same outputs? Can I change this?


----------



## synthetic

KEM said:


> Ok it’s letting me do it but they’re all coming out of the same outputs? Can I change this?



Expand the mic mixer in Sine and set the active mics to 3/4 (click on the bottom). Then go into the VEP mixer for that instance and add an output channel to your Sine instrument, assign those to another output. Finally go to the VI list in Cubase, click on the down arrow on the right to assign outputs, and add another stereo out (or five.)


----------



## KEM

synthetic said:


> Expand the mic mixer in Sine and set the active mics to 3/4 (click on the bottom). Then go into the VEP mixer for that instance and add an output channel to your Sine instrument, assign those to another output. Finally go to the VI list in Cubase, click on the down arrow on the right to assign outputs, and add another stereo out (or five.)



Awesome thank you very much!


----------



## bfreepro

Has anyone done this yet?

PS if you couldn't guess from the file name, it's gonna be f**cking loud


----------



## KEM

The library sounds amazing but all these clicks and pops are making it unusable for me


----------



## Eptesicus

KEM said:


> The library sounds amazing but all these clicks and pops are making it unusable for me



Yeh there are a fair few pops/clicks on some sustain notes/loops. I'm hoping they will be going through the whole library again and tidying up these issues.

There are quite a few dodgy transitions too. The top octave of horns a4 is...well, not good!

I appreciate that the sample content to have gone through is huge, so i expected there to be a few dodgy things. Though for such an expensive library, aimed at professionals, i do expect them to be fixed!


----------



## richard kurek

Eptesicus said:


> Yeh there are a fair few pops/clicks on some sustain notes/loops. I'm hoping they will be going through the whole library again and tidying up these issues.
> 
> There are quite a few dodgy transitions too. The top octave of horns a4 is...well, not good!
> 
> I appreciate that the sample content to have gone through is huge, so i expected there to be a few dodgy things. Though for such an expensive library, aimed at professionals, i do expect them to be fixed!


which daw i know cubase 10.5 has these issues


----------



## Eptesicus

richard kurek said:


> which daw i know cubase 10.5 has these issues



Cubase 10

However, it does it in standalone as well when Cubase isn't even in the equation.

Interestingly i think it hangs longer based on how long it has been open. Most of the time, when it has been open a while and i close it, it stops responding and i have to kill it manually.

I am guessing it is this behavior that is also stopping Cubase from closing properly when using SINE as a vst plugin.

Edit - sorry i thought you were talking about the closing issue.

No the pops/clicks and dodgy transitions have nothing to do with Cubase. The pops and clicks are not an audio/buffer issue. They are completely repeatable on certain notes/dynamics. They are dodgy sustain loops. They happen in the standalone player as well.


----------



## KEM

I’m also on Cubase 10


----------



## 5Lives

When should we expect the masterclass? Before or after the holidays? Looking forward to it!


----------



## KEM

5Lives said:


> When should we expect the masterclass? Before or after the holidays? Looking forward to it!



After the new year


----------



## prodigalson

I'm sorry but the SINE player is less than satisfactory for me. Not only is it incredibly tedious to download, no ability to select a download folder, sitting on an instrument for hours with no visual feedback, is it even downloading? did everything even download? No information to guide you around the player but get this:

It didnt download all the mic positions for every instrument. My solo instruments only have the close mics and now I have no ability to start to download the rest. I started the download initially in standalone mode. Then downloading stalled after a number of hours so I closed standalone and restarted as a plugin in VEP. fine..all good...I guess. Then I discover after it "finished" downloading that I have a bunch of missing mic positions. so I start downloading again. I get the error "You already started this in another instance. Please go to that instance." Cool, so I close it and go back to the standalone instance I initially started with and get the same error "You already started this in another instance. Please go to that instance". I go back to the other instance and the same thing. LOL now what??

Say what you want about the Spitfire player, I have many gripes with it, BUT at least I was able to actually download my instruments and navigate the basic functions within minutes, even at it's 1.0

SINE may be efficient (GOOD!) and it may be hyper-functional (great!) but it's interface is a total mess and the download process is murky, ambiguous and basically just consists of trial and error.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

prodigalson said:


> I'm sorry but the SINE player is less than satisfactory for me. Not only is it incredibly tedious to download, no ability to select a download folder, sitting on an instrument for hours with no visual feedback, is it even downloading? did everything even download? No information to guide you around the player but get this:
> 
> It didnt download all the mic positions for every instrument. My solo instruments only have the close mics and now I have no ability to start to download the rest. I started the download initially in standalone mode. Then downloading stalled after a number of hours so I closed standalone and restarted as a plugin in VEP. fine..all good...I guess. Then I discover after it "finished" downloading that I have a bunch of missing mic positions. so I start downloading again. I get the error "You already started this in another instance. Please go to that instance." Cool, so I close it and go back to the standalone instance I initially started with and get the same error "You already started this in another instance. Please go to that instance". I go back to the other instance and the same thing. LOL now what??
> 
> Say what you want about the Spitfire player, I have many gripes with it, BUT at least I was able to actually download my instruments and navigate the basic functions within minutes.
> 
> SINE may be efficient (GOOD!) and it may be hyper-functional (great!) but it's interface is a total mess and the download process is murky, ambiguous and basically just consists of trial and error.


make sure you send them your system specs and DAW ect. 

I have literally had 0 issues except for the keyswitch issue where unless I jiggle it up and down once, the c-2 doesn't work.


----------



## Virtuoso

ProfoundSilence said:


> I have literally had 0 issues except for the keyswitch issue where unless I jiggle it up and down once, the c-2 doesn't work.


Support got straight back to me on that and said it‘s “a known issue that is super high on our fixlist”


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Virtuoso said:


> Support got straight back to me on that and said it‘s “a known issue that is super high on our fixlist”


yeah that's why I didnt bother reporting it -


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer

Hi everyone,

We’ve been reading all your feedback and we’re working on releasing a SINE 1.0.1 update in the next few days.

It’s going to solve the c-2 keyswitch issue and you’ll be able to cancel when downloading.
Also it improves some things on DFD procedure and we’ve built an improved installer for mac OS.

In response to some of your questions, we’ve made the following videos which explain SINE file structure, moving instruments to another computer, and removing/deleting mic positions/instruments/collections.

_Move instruments to another computer + SINE file structure 
_


And

_Removing/deleting mic positions, instruments, and collections _



We’re also continually updating our FAQs Helpdesk page here: helpdesk.orchestraltools.com


Glad you guys are enjoying Junkie XL Brass, and thanks again for all your feedback.
We know SINE is a 1.0 and we will keep improving it over the upcoming time.


All the best,

Hendrik


----------



## Raphioli

I've already requested a feature, which is the ability to directly choose a specific drive to save the mic merged samples to when mic merging.
But I have an additional feature request regarding mic merging.

It would be awesome if you could add something like Time Machine to SINE.
You could basically micro adjust (time stretch) the short articulations to your liking, and then save it with the mic merge feature. Basically baking in the time stretch within the samples. 
Then you wouldn't have to use time stretch in realtime, which obviously uses lots of CPU.
Mic merging has so much potential!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Raphioli said:


> I've already requested a feature, which is the ability to directly choose a specific drive to save the mic merged samples to when mic merging.
> But I have an additional feature request regarding mic merging.
> 
> It would be awesome if you could add something like Time Machine to SINE.
> You could basically micro adjust (time stretch) the short articulations to your liking, and then save it with the mic merge feature. Basically baking in the time stretch within the samples.
> Then you wouldn't have to use time stretch in realtime, which obviously uses lots of CPU.
> Mic merging has so much potential!


this would be awesome


----------



## Pixelee

uh questions about the kits. If I download just the JXL kit, would I be missing out if I'm didn't download the basic kit?


----------



## Eptesicus

@OrchestralTools , are the 12 trombones supposed to have rips??

Seems off that every other section and division has them but not the 12 trombones. Wasn't the main marketing point that there was great consistency between the articulations?

Its almost like you forgot to include them as it seems a very odd omission!


----------



## Real JXL

Eptesicus said:


> @OrchestralTools , are the 12 trombones supposed to have rips??
> 
> Seems off that every other section and division has them but not the 12 trombones. Wasn't the main marketing point that there was great consistency between the articulations?
> 
> Its almost like you forgot to include them as it seems a very odd omission!



I was wondering that myself today! I know we did record them because I was there! I will look into this Sir! Good call!

Xxx

Tom


----------



## Real JXL

Raphioli said:


> I've already requested a feature, which is the ability to directly choose a specific drive to save the mic merged samples to when mic merging.
> But I have an additional feature request regarding mic merging.
> 
> It would be awesome if you could add something like Time Machine to SINE.
> You could basically micro adjust (time stretch) the short articulations to your liking, and then save it with the mic merge feature. Basically baking in the time stretch within the samples.
> Then you wouldn't have to use time stretch in realtime, which obviously uses lots of CPU.
> Mic merging has so much potential!




Really interesting Idea! Let us discuss!

Xxx

Tom


----------



## Real JXL

Virtuoso said:


> Support got straight back to me on that and said it‘s “a known issue that is super high on our fixlist”



Should be fixed in update next days!


----------



## Real JXL

Eptesicus said:


> Yeh there are a fair few pops/clicks on some sustain notes/loops. I'm hoping they will be going through the whole library again and tidying up these issues.
> 
> There are quite a few dodgy transitions too. The top octave of horns a4 is...well, not good!
> 
> I appreciate that the sample content to have gone through is huge, so i expected there to be a few dodgy things. Though for such an expensive library, aimed at professionals, i do expect them to be fixed!




They will be fixed! I’m still finding a few myself!

Xxx

Tom


----------



## Tice

Might be interesting to go into how such things as the pops and clicks can slip through the net sometimes. I imagine it has something to do with the sheer volume of samples being made, but I honestly don't know.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Tice said:


> Might be interesting to go into how such things as the pops and clicks can slip through the net sometimes. I imagine it has something to do with the sheer volume of samples being made, but I honestly don't know.


this.

someone has to listen to these things multiple times, and it physically takes a reaaaaally long time to do that


----------



## Raphioli

Tice said:


> Might be interesting to go into how such things as the pops and clicks can slip through the net sometimes. I imagine it has something to do with the sheer volume of samples being made, but I honestly don't know.





ProfoundSilence said:


> someone has to listen to these things multiple times, and it physically takes a reaaaaally long time to do that



Yeah and I think its really difficult to release something of this calibre with absolutely no bugs/issues.
Especially when you have 5 dynamic layers AND legato transitions for each of those dynamics to go with that.

The most important thing is how developers deal with it after its been reported by users.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Raphioli said:


> Yeah and I think its really difficult to release something of this calibre with absolutely no bugs/issues.
> Especially when you have 5 dynamic layers AND legato transitions for each of those dynamics to go with that.
> 
> The most important thing is how developers deal with it after its been reported by users.


considering they control the downloading mechanism I suspect that they can roll out updates easier right @OrchestralTools


----------



## tabulius

I already posted this issue to support email, but do any of you have issue with poly switch recall? Every time I reopen the project my range settings are gone, articulation order is wrong, and only one layer is playing in all the zones. Same happens when removing mics and adding again. Pressing keyswitches again removes the problem, but I have to set the keyswitches and adjust the ranges for all instruments EVERYTIME. I’m surprised that anyone has mentioned about this? Is this a Studio One problem? And I want a full purge like in Kontakt! I don’t understand what the Sine purge is doing.

But the sound! The balls of those bones, I’m in love


----------



## brenneisen

tabulius said:


> I don’t understand what the Sine purge is doing.



everything unloaded until you hit a note, no single note purge yet


----------



## Eptesicus

Raphioli said:


> Yeah and I think its really difficult to release something of this calibre with absolutely no bugs/issues.
> Especially when you have 5 dynamic layers AND legato transitions for each of those dynamics to go with that.
> 
> The most important thing is how developers deal with it after its been reported by users.



Yeh I dont mind these few dodgy transitions/loop clicks on release as i appreciate just how much content there is.

I do definitely want them fixed though! Hopefully it wont take them too long.

As you say, the real proof of how good a developer is, is how they react to the issues and whether they fix them. Many a time, with other developers (cinesamples, auddict to name but a few) I have reported obvious issues in transitions or sustain loops and in spite of promises nothing is fixed :(. I hope OT are different in that regard.


----------



## kmm08

After testing for a few days, brass instruments have nice large dynamic range to them, more so than most other libraries. Room tone blends well with other OT instruments such as Berlin Brass. SINE player, however, needs a lot of work. Reported a few lists of issues/bugs already in the first day or two. More like in beta version than ready for prime time use.


----------



## kmm08

When saving in a VEPRo server project, upon reopening all previous settings are reset
to default and all open/configured instruments have to be reloaded from scratch.
Need better way of accessing User stored presets similar to “Kontakt’s Quickload”.
Loading time of mics is slow, even from an internal SSD drive for both standalone and plugins (not much different than loading from an internal HDD which I originally tried as well).
Often when loading mics, there’s a pause of at least a few seconds before they start to load
(not sure if this has something to do with the compressed format or not).
Clear List sometimes freezes the whole app and has to be restarted
With KS Area Start (Low Instr) set to C5 in Options, Trombones load up starting at C#4
A number of error messages that pop up when using under VEPro & standalone (Audio Production Errors)
All kind of noise when using CC1 to fade between velocity layers regardless of Buffer
settings, even with only (1) mic loaded (ex: such as in Horns sustains). Seems more
noticeable in standalone version for some reason.
SINE player randomly freezes up and crashes when used in Cubase.
Opening & closing plugin changes views back to default view instead of last set to


----------



## ProfoundSilence

wish I could be more help, I wont get to play with my new toy until junuary


----------



## Eptesicus

kmm08 said:


> When saving in a VEPRo server project, upon reopening all previous settings are reset
> to default and all open/configured instruments have to be reloaded from scratch.
> Need better way of accessing User stored presets similar to “Kontakt’s Quickload”.
> Loading time of mics is slow, even from an internal SSD drive for both standalone and plugins (not much different than loading from an internal HDD which I originally tried as well).
> Often when loading mics, there’s a pause of at least a few seconds before they start to load
> (not sure if this has something to do with the compressed format or not).
> Clear List sometimes freezes the whole app and has to be restarted
> With KS Area Start (Low Instr) set to C5 in Options, Trombones load up starting at C#4
> A number of error messages that pop up when using under VEPro & standalone (Audio Production Errors)
> All kind of noise when using CC1 to fade between velocity layers regardless of Buffer
> settings, even with only (1) mic loaded (ex: such as in Horns sustains). Seems more
> noticeable in standalone version for some reason.
> SINE player randomly freezes up and crashes when used in Cubase.
> Opening & closing plugin changes views back to default view instead of last set to



Oo I'm glad another person is having the clear list freeze bug + general freezing as well.

This is the main thing I want fixed as it makes using it a chore if there is a chance it will just freeze on me.


----------



## xanderscores

Eptesicus said:


> ...
> This is the main thing I want fixed as it makes using it a chore if there is a chance it will just freeze on me.



It's a small consolation, but the "freeze bug" (at least mine) might be on the surface only. I can close the window via Windows task bar and reload the plugin window again via Cubase and all settings are okay. Support told me they are already on it, but in the meantime there's at least some kind of workaround.

In all, I'm having far less trouble with the SINE player than with OT instruments loaded in Kontakt, which only a few of them unbelievably soon bring my CPU (6-core i7-8700K) to its limits. JXL Brass is CPU-friendly by comparison.

Wish I had all OT instruments available in SINE already...


----------



## Eptesicus

xanderscores said:


> It's a small consolation, but the "freeze bug" (at least mine) might be on the surface only. I can close the window via Windows task bar and reload the plugin window again via Cubase and all settings are okay. Support told me they are already on it, but in the meantime there's at least some kind of workaround.
> 
> In all, I'm having far less trouble with the SINE player than with OT instruments loaded in Kontakt, which only a few of them unbelievably soon bring my CPU (6-core i7-8700K) to its limits. JXL Brass is CPU-friendly by comparison.
> 
> Wish I had all OT instruments available in SINE already...



Yes I noticed this too.

However its annoying if downloading things as if you open it again, it thinks another instance is open so you cant accessicenses until the first instance closes I the background (which can take ages).


Cpu usage does seem very good in SINE which is promising. With further development and optimisation they could possibly make it even better.


----------



## Sovereign

Some of the rips are somewhat slow. Is it an idea to have the speed controlled by mod wheel? Just an idea. Also, I somewhat hate the mixer, unless I'm mistaken you have to eyeball values each time and there's no way to input a concrete value in Sine for each mic/section?


----------



## Eptesicus

Sovereign said:


> Some of the rips are somewhat slow. Is it an idea to have the speed controlled by mod wheel? Just an idea. Also, I somewhat hate the mixer, unless I'm mistaken you have to eyeball values each time and there's no way to input a concrete value in Sine for each mic/section?



Yeh, some speed control on the tips would be cool.

I agree that a numerical value/editor would be good for the mics/mixer too.


----------



## Si_Withenshaw

Sovereign said:


> Some of the rips are somewhat slow. Is it an idea to have the speed controlled by mod wheel? Just an idea. Also, I somewhat hate the mixer, unless I'm mistaken you have to eyeball values each time and there's no way to input a concrete value in Sine for each mic/section?



Yes I thought this myself, they‘re cool but defintely on the slow side. Some sort of controllable time stretching would be really useful.


----------



## Loïc D

Sovereign said:


> Some of the rips are somewhat slow. Is it an idea to have the speed controlled by mod wheel? Just an idea. Also, I somewhat hate the mixer, unless I'm mistaken you have to eyeball values each time and there's no way to input a concrete value in Sine for each mic/section?


I totally second this.


----------



## zolhof

Sovereign said:


> Some of the rips are somewhat slow. Is it an idea to have the speed controlled by mod wheel?



+1! As a workaround, I have a separate instance for rips and marcatos that I can render in place whenever I need to control the length of samples.

The one thing I'm missing the most is MIDI automation for individual parameters per articulation. Being able to, i.e., dial in the envelope and legato volume on the fly would add a lot of shaping power to this library.

SINE is very stable here, no crashes so far. Loving the workflow, despite a few quirks here and there. It feels very optimized for a 1.0 release and surprisingly I'm not having any performance issues with my 7yo system.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

yes basically anything that's controllable should be midi cc-able... i would prefer the idea of being able to automate mics ect and i can't because you cant automate it. 

same with the asdr/its cool but useless because you can't trigger it with midi yet.


----------



## jononotbono

ProfoundSilence said:


> yes basically anything that's controllable should be midi cc-able... i would prefer the idea of being able to automate mics ect and i can't because you cant automate it.
> 
> same with the asdr/its cool but useless because you can't trigger it with midi yet.



I haven't tested it yet but you're saying it's not possible to assign a CC to the Mics? Really?

JXL has all of his libraries and Mic Positions assigned to physical faders. Shit, even I do! haha! How can this not be a feature? I'm going to have to check myself because if this is true, this needs to be sorted. I rely on the beauty of not having to access my slave machines just to tweak a mic level and instead use a physical fader.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jononotbono said:


> I haven't tested it yet but you're saying it's not possible to assign a CC to the Mics? Really?
> 
> JXL has all of his libraries and Mic Positions assigned to physical faders. Shit, even I do! haha! How can this not be a feature? I'm going to have to check myself because if this is true, this needs to be sorted. I rely on the beauty of not having to access my slave machines just to tweak a mic level and instead use a physical fader.


yeah I use a dedicated piece of hardware just for faders for that reason.


----------



## jononotbono

ProfoundSilence said:


> yeah I use a dedicated piece of hardware just for faders for that reason.


Most of us do! Including OT and JXL! So I'm baffled as to why we can't assign CCs to the faders?


----------



## jononotbono

Just like Kontakt, right click on any function and assign a CC. It is that simple in Kontakt. Even the new Spitfire Player can do that. There must be a reason this hasn't been included yet. Even if this player doesn't have the ability to right click and assign a CC, then at least in the Options tab, there should be a list of all the mic positions and just like the other controllers in the controller map, there should be a box where you can select a CC to control them. Same goes for Envelope controls. Everything should be assignable.


----------



## OT_Tobias

Hey folks,

Thank you all so much for your feedback over the first days of SINE Player and JXL Brass.
We are going through all reports and feedback and are already planning the next steps!

Before the holidays, we are happy to release the first maintenance update for SINE Player.

SINE Player 1.0.1 brings the following changes:

Features:

Downloads now can be canceled and SINE Player will delete aborted downloads
SINE Player will not reload into DFD when no samples are changed (= less CPU cycles)
The macOS installation process has been improved
Fixes:

C-2 can now be selected via MIDI
Log Files are now called SINEPlayer.log instead of OTSampler.log
Fixed a rare issue where SINE Player would freeze or crash when switching from Store/MyLicenses to another tab

Download the SINE Player installer from http://www.getsine.com (www.getsine.com) and just install on top of your existing version.

Happy Holidays and all the best from the OT Team!


----------



## OrchestralTools

Hey everyone.
This is the new Junkie XL Brass demo 'Let the Games Begin'


We hope you like it. Thanks so much for all your comments and feedback. We have updated SINE (as Tobias has said) so make sure to download the SINE Player installer from getsine.com and install on top of your existing version.

If you have any issues please reach out to our dedicated support email addresses: [email protected] and [email protected]

Happy holidays from us all here at Orchestral Tools!

Best,

OT Team


----------



## tebling

Amazing demo by Sascha! Well worth the wait.


----------



## AEF

Sascha is incredible.


----------



## W Ackerman

The thumping sound you hear is people hitting the ground after hearing Sascha's demo who have been sitting on the fence about buying JXL Brass.


----------



## David Kudell

Wow. Just wow. Amazing composition by Sacha. Impressive dynamics, the sound is incredibly cohesive...I would never have believed this was sample libraries.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

is it possible to share mic presets?


----------



## Eptesicus

Love that new demo. The brass sounds brilliant. Fantastically powerful.


----------



## I like music

It was his woodwinds demo which caused me to buy BWW within minutes. I'm assuming the same thing is happening across the world this morning, with the brass.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

I like music said:


> It was his woodwinds demo which caused me to buy BWW within minutes. I'm assuming the same thing is happening across the world this morning, with the brass.


I thought it was bad starwars mockups that sold libraries?

(since I opened my big fat mouth - im not going to lie and act like im not playing the force them using the legato patch while testing)


----------



## Peter Satera

This isn't _really _a bug, but it's worth a mention. I'm still downloading a few mics and had it running in standalone. When I tried to open a project with Sine in it, the player couldn't load the instruments, and it loads empty. When closing the standalone, then opening the project, no prompt and everything is fine.

(With this player, I can see myself eventually going full OT in the future. )


----------



## KEM

Thought I'd post in this thread as well so more people might see it, but as some of you may have already seen I recently made my own rendition of the iconic Terminator theme after hearing the amazing score by @Real JXL on the new film, and now that we have his new sample library, I thought it'd be a perfect to go back and replace all the brass with JXLB for a good comparison as to what this library can do compared to others on the market. In my opinion, JXLB blows all of them away, it instantly sounded bigger, louder, and brassier!! I'm just posting the JXLB version in this post, but I'm keeping the original up in case anyone wants to compare for themselves.

SoundCloud:


YouTube:


----------



## turnerofwheels

My problems so far
-Cannot keyswitch to legato
-Multitimbral playback runs into clicks, especially during legato transitions
Running JXL on its own internal samsung evo sdd. It sounds great otherwise, with these two things fixed I'll be well on my way with it


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

SHANE TURNER said:


> My problems so far
> -Cannot keyswitch to legato


Do you have the latest version?
The keyswitch problem is already fixed with version 1.0.1


----------



## axb312

bfreepro said:


> Has anyone done this yet?
> 
> PS if you couldn't guess from the file name, it's gonna be f**cking loud



So, has this replaced Century brass for you?


----------



## turnerofwheels

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Do you have the latest version?
> The keyswitch problem is already fixed with version 1.0.1


Thanks, that did it. For the clicks, I've separated the use of SINE in my template into instrument groups--instead of running too many in one multitimbral instance--and that seems to take care of it for now.


----------



## Real JXL

SHANE TURNER said:


> Thanks, that did it. For the clicks, I've separated the use of SINE in my template into instrument groups--instead of running too many in one multitimbral instance--and that seems to take care of it for now.



Thats how I run it too for now.. one sine per instance loaded... Also if you create a few more Vframes in VEPro also boosts performance... 

OT is in process making Sine extremely lean in performance and quicker with data I know...


----------



## Real JXL

KEM said:


> Thought I'd post in this thread as well so more people might see it, but as some of you may have already seen I recently made my own rendition of the iconic Terminator theme after hearing the amazing score by @Real JXL on the new film, and now that we have his new sample library, I thought it'd be a perfect to go back and replace all the brass with JXLB for a good comparison as to what this library can do compared to others on the market. In my opinion, JXLB blows all of them away, it instantly sounded bigger, louder, and brassier!! I'm just posting the JXLB version in this post, but I'm keeping the original up in case anyone wants to compare for themselves.
> 
> SoundCloud:
> 
> 
> YouTube:




Awesome Man!!


----------



## KEM

Real JXL said:


> Awesome Man!!



Thank you!! Seriously this library is so good, I spent hours and hours programming the brass on the first version and I had to blend about 4 or 5 different libraries together to get it to where I liked it, but when I loaded in JXLB and copied the midi over it instantly sounded 100x better, and that was before I even programmed in the keyswitches. This library is so good in fact that I deleted every other brass library I had!!


----------



## Flexi83

HI KEM,
which brass libraries were replaced by JXLB?
Regards
Feliks


----------



## Kartus

@KEM I'm curious. Can you please show us your track or a part of it or is it secret/not ready for public?


----------



## KEM

Flexi83 said:


> HI KEM,
> which brass libraries were replaced by JXLB?
> Regards
> Feliks



Cinebrass, Metropolis Ark 1, Spitfire Masse, and EWQL Hollywood.



Kartus said:


> @KEM I'm curious. Can you please show us your track or a part of it or is it secret/not ready for public?



Yeah I’d be down to do that! Is there anything in particular you’d like to see? I could also uploaded the stems if you’d like?


----------



## Kartus

Cool thank you  I would like to hear a comparison between old brass stem and new jxlb stem.



KEM said:


> This library is so good in fact that I deleted every other brass library I had!!


But you don't have as much articulations like in other libraries you could probably miss.


----------



## KEM

Kartus said:


> Cool thank you  I would like to hear a comparison between old brass stem and new jxlb stem.
> 
> 
> But you don't have as much articulations like in other libraries you could probably miss.



There really isn't much I'm missing, all the core articulations are there and I have stuff like the Albion series and Orchestral Swarm for fx and stuff if I need them, mutes would be cool, but nobody is currently asking me to write stuff that sounds like it should be in a Pixar movie so I can live without them for now lol


----------



## KEM

Real JXL said:


> Thats how I run it too for now.. one sine per instance loaded... Also if you create a few more Vframes in VEPro also boosts performance...
> 
> OT is in process making Sine extremely lean in performance and quicker with data I know...



So you're saying that you have each instrument in it's own SINE player? I currently have everything in JXLB in one SINE player, but if I'll get better performance by breaking them up between instruments I'll give it a try.


----------



## bfreepro

axb312 said:


> So, has this replaced Century brass for you?


Not quite! I still really love Century, honestly I don't see it ever being FULLY replaced just because of how much I love and use the "arc" articulations, and some of the legato patches can still sound much more lyrical in Century, especially the solos and 12 horns . JXL has however fully replaced the traditional content in FORZO as well as the Ark 1 brass, Talos Low Brass, and Angry Brass Pro - I used each of these just for a very specific occasion, like Angry Brass Pro for the multi tongue notes and stuff, but JXL just does it all and sounds sooooooo damn good :D


----------



## mscp

bfreepro said:


> Not quite! I still really love Century, honestly I don't see it ever being FULLY replaced just because of how much I love and use the "arc" articulations, and some of the legato patches can still sound much more lyrical in Century, especially the solos and 12 horns . JXL has however fully replaced the traditional content in FORZO as well as the Ark 1 brass, Talos Low Brass, and Angry Brass Pro - I used each of these just for a very specific occasion, like Angry Brass Pro for the multi tongue notes and stuff, but JXL just does it all and sounds sooooooo damn good :D



how does it compare with Berlin Brass?


----------



## bfreepro

Phil81 said:


> how does it compare with Berlin Brass?


That is one I don't own! I never bought into the Berlin Series just because of the price, but! I do have the Berlin Inspire series as well as the Arks, and I think Berlin Inspire actually contains content from Berlin Brass, just of course much less extensive and only one mic, so a comparison with Inspire might not really be helpful? I do have Spitfire Symphonic, Cinematic Studio Brass, Century, Forzo, NI Symphony Essentials Brass, EW Hollywood Brass... all I use now is JXL and Century, Cinematic Studio Brass a close third, that's all preference as it just has a more up close sound and overall less content.

TL,DR: I think basically my point is, JXL is still not QUITE all inclusive, as some of the legato patches have been pretty disappointing with the transitions, so I'd still always recommend you have something like Century or CSB as an option in case you need a more lyrical and buttery smooth legato transition, or for mutes, stuff like that.. but still, tone wise it's incredible and I do not regret the purchase one bit.


----------



## mscp

bfreepro said:


> That is one I don't own! I never bought into the Berlin Series just because of the price, but! I do have the Berlin Inspire series as well as the Arks, and I think Berlin Inspire actually contains content from Berlin Brass, just of course much less extensive and only one mic, so a comparison with Inspire might not really be helpful? I do have Spitfire Symphonic, Cinematic Studio Brass, Century, Forzo, NI Symphony Essentials Brass, EW Hollywood Brass... all I use now is JXL and Century, Cinematic Studio Brass a close third, that's all preference as it just has a more up close sound and overall less content.
> 
> TL,DR: I think basically my point is, JXL is still not QUITE all inclusive, as some of the legato patches have been pretty disappointing with the transitions, so I'd still always recommend you have something like Century or CSB as an option in case you need a more lyrical and buttery smooth legato transition, or for mutes, stuff like that.. but still, tone wise it's incredible and I do not regret the purchase one bit.



I use Cinesamples and Spitfire for brass. 
I’ve had my eyes on OT for the longest time but never took the plunge. I do like the tone of their libraries.


----------



## bfreepro

Phil81 said:


> I use Cinesamples and Spitfire for brass.


All I have from Cinesamples brass line is the 12 horns, which I still think is amazing and honestly tone and dynamic wise, it's probably fairly similar to the 12 horns in JXL, though JXL will have more width and a thickness and more articulations. Spitfire Symphonic Brass has been completely replaced for me, it's just night and day when I play it back to back with JXL, but I'll be honest, I was never a big fan of SSB, just a bit too wet and ambient. I actually love the AIR hall sound with woodwinds especially, strings too, but the brass is just a bit too muddy and ambient, especially the horns. As a whole I do feel the tone and range and overall quality of JXL is on another level from SSB. JXL does have a more bright and detailed sound but it also maintains a lush roominess to it, without ever being muddy. I think it's more of a modern cinematic sound compared to the almost classical nature of SSB. I think a lot of that will come down to how you want to use it and personal preference


----------



## mscp

bfreepro said:


> All I have from Cinesamples brass line is the 12 horns, which I still think is amazing and honestly tone and dynamic wise, it's probably fairly similar to the 12 horns in JXL, though JXL will have more width and a thickness and more articulations. Spitfire Symphonic Brass has been completely replaced for me, it's just night and day when I play it back to back with JXL, but I'll be honest, I was never a big fan of SSB, just a bit too wet and ambient. I actually love the AIR hall sound with woodwinds especially, strings too, but the brass is just a bit too muddy and ambient, especially the horns. As a whole I do feel the tone and range and overall quality of JXL is on another level from SSB.



I use their [spitfire] studio series - wouldn't be able to comment on their symphonic series. The brass section is not their forte and that's why I'm considering another library to pair up with cinesamples.


----------



## bfreepro

Phil81 said:


> I use their [spitfire] studio series - wouldn't be able to comment on their symphonic series. The brass section is not their forte and that's why I'm considering another library to pair



for sure! I am blending jxl very nicely with a variety of other libraries, it’s very versatile. Not too dry or too wet!


----------



## AlainTH

i hesitate... is sine works now properly with cubase 10.5?


----------



## stargazer

bfreepro said:


> Not quite! I still really love Century, honestly I don't see it ever being FULLY replaced just because of how much I love and use the "arc" articulations, and some of the legato patches can still sound much more lyrical in Century, especially the solos and 12 horns . JXL has however fully replaced the traditional content in FORZO as well as the Ark 1 brass, Talos Low Brass, and Angry Brass Pro - I used each of these just for a very specific occasion, like Angry Brass Pro for the multi tongue notes and stuff, but JXL just does it all and sounds sooooooo damn good :D


Bought, but not downloaded, still on the fence, a few days left to decide. 
Now that the Century Brass Bundle is on sale, I might keep the JXL and get the Century to complement it, partly inspired by your thoughts, bfreepro.
I’m sure the JXL is a very good library, but the hype that it’s the be-all and end-all brass library, and so few examples (until recently) that live up to my expectations has made me a bit hesitant.
As a big fan of OT though, and after hearing Sascha Knorrs demo, I’m leaning towards keeping the JXL.


----------



## AlainTH

Real JXL said:


> You can program your own desired key switches to note value...
> 
> You can easily set that up in Sine and save your project so its the same every time you load it up...
> 
> I just setup expression maps in Cubase for the JXL brass and always use the same remote keys as well...
> 
> Other options are CC for art changes or even velocity... All depending on what you want or desire


could you share this expression maps?


----------



## AlainTH

i hesitate also between century and JXL... jxl for the high ensemble dynamics, but sine player bug with cubase, century for some very good articulations and kontakt standard knowledge and stability. the two maybe, but i have to choose only one for now.


----------



## kmm08

Just confirmed today a major issue with SINE player in VEPro 6. If you load up an instance or more of SINE player in VEPro and then save the server project, upon reopening again, any channel SINE player is on starts to cause all kinds of playback issues including stuttering audio and not playing back at all. This even seems to effect other plugins in VEPro on the same channel such as Kontakt instruments. If you remove SINE players form the VSL project, everything seems to work fine again. It doesn’t appear that the SINE player was actually tested in VEPro. However, since most people doing orchestral midi recordings seem to be using VEPro as a host for sample libraries, it should be one of the main software that SINE should be tested with. I’ve already reported a number of issues with SINE player since its release, so hopefully this is one that will be addressed, otherwise, it makes it almost useless to use at this point in time especially with projects that need to be saved.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

kmm08 said:


> Just confirmed today a major issue with SINE player in VEPro 6. If you load up an instance or more of SINE player in VEPro and then save the server project, upon reopening again, any channel SINE player is on starts to cause all kinds of playback issues including stuttering audio and not playing back at all. This even seems to effect other plugins in VEPro on the same channel such as Kontakt instruments. If you remove SINE players form the VSL project, everything seems to work fine again. It doesn’t appear that the SINE player was actually tested in VEPro. However, since most people doing orchestral midi recordings seem to be using VEPro as a host for sample libraries, it should be one of the main software that SINE should be tested with. I’ve already reported a number of issues with SINE player since its release, so hopefully this is one that will be addressed, otherwise, it makes it almost useless to use at this point in time especially with projects that need to be saved.


JXLB's biggest beta tester was Tom himself, who uses it on an old server through vepro

could it be related to leaving the interface open when you save? some people have that issue - try closing the UI before saving. 

IIRC sine uses the first instance it opens to check on the browser - I suspect this aspect is the component that causes issue. 

as ambitious as having the store built into the VST is, I suspect itll continue to cause the most issues.


----------



## jononotbono

I don't have this issue with VEPro6. All the samples playback fine for me. The issue I have is VEPro hanging when shutting down. Sometimes it doesn't shut down at all so I have to force quit. As long as I save before Shutting down things are ok (for now) but can't wait for this to be fixed as I never know if the save file will get corrupted or something weird. I have exactly the same thing happen when I enable all patches in Spitfire HZ Strings but hey, that's for another thread. I have JXLB disabled in VEPro until I want to use it. Eventually I will just have it permanently enabled... Eventually will have have more computers. So many I won't need heating.


----------



## jononotbono

ProfoundSilence said:


> as ambitious as having the store built into the VST is, I suspect itll continue to cause the most issues.



Yeah I think there should be a way to just disable the store until when needed. Or just do what Spitfire does and just have a download app where it's separate from the actual plugin.


----------



## Kony

ProfoundSilence said:


> as ambitious as having the store built into the VST is, I suspect itll continue to cause the most issues


Perhaps Sine should have the option to disable/enable the store? That way, peeps can turn it on when they want to shop etc.


----------



## Kony

@jononotbono snap!


----------



## jononotbono

Kony said:


> @jononotbono snap!



Yeah I can’t see how something always connecting to the internet is a good thing for something like this. It’s like the Hub in Cubase. That gets turned off immediately on a clean installation.


----------



## kmm08

Try closing which UI before saving? The problem seems to be when opening saved projects with SINE players in them. Either way, regardless of what it was tested on, SINE player is not fully compatible with VEPro, Cubase, or any of the major software at this point, at least not on the Mac. I own most of OT's libraries and they all work fine in KontaKt. I also have the full XL Brass, but to be honest, wish there was a version for Kontakt as well. I'm sure SINE player may come around some time in the future, but its just too new to be trusted on any professional projects at this time. I've been using audio software for too many years now, both personally and professionally, to realize that any new software generally takes a number of years before it can be taken seriously in the professional world. SINE will not be replacing Kontakt any time soon unfortunately. I don't even like Native Instruments to be honest, but Kotnakt has been around for some time now and has earned its reputation by professional users over the years.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

kmm08 said:


> Try closing which UI before saving? The problem seems to be when opening saved projects with SINE players in them. Either way, regardless of what it was tested on, SINE player is not fully compatible with VEPro, Cubase, or any of the major software at this point, at least not on the Mac. I own most of OT's libraries and they all work fine in KontaKt. I also have the full XL Brass, but to be honest, wish there was a version for Kontakt as well. I'm sure SINE player may come around some time in the future, but its just too new to be trusted on any professional projects at this time. I've been using audio software for too many years now, both personally and professionally, to realize that any new software generally takes a number of years before it can be taken seriously in the professional world. SINE will not be replacing Kontakt any time soon unfortunately. I don't even like Native Instruments to be honest, but Kotnakt has been around for some time now and has earned its reputation by professional users over the years.



some people have reported leaving the sine window open when saving a project causes issues opening the project. Not everyone, but people have had that issue so I figured it was worth bringing up. 

You're right to assume any new software has a teething phase, especially given multiple OS, versions, DAWs, drivers, and physical components.


----------



## zimm83

kmm08 said:


> Try closing which UI before saving? The problem seems to be when opening saved projects with SINE players in them. Either way, regardless of what it was tested on, SINE player is not fully compatible with VEPro, Cubase, or any of the major software at this point, at least not on the Mac. I own most of OT's libraries and they all work fine in KontaKt. I also have the full XL Brass, but to be honest, wish there was a version for Kontakt as well. I'm sure SINE player may come around some time in the future, but its just too new to be trusted on any professional projects at this time. I've been using audio software for too many years now, both personally and professionally, to realize that any new software generally takes a number of years before it can be taken seriously in the professional world. SINE will not be replacing Kontakt any time soon unfortunately. I don't even like Native Instruments to be honest, but Kotnakt has been around for some time now and has earned its reputation by professional users over the years.


Kontakt.. That's it .


----------



## ProfoundSilence

zimm83 said:


> Kontakt.. That's it .


no. not really. 

you'll notice most of who haven't had issues with the player actually like it. I'll be happy to have a full berlin template using sine


----------



## Alex Niedt

ProfoundSilence said:


> you'll notice most of who haven't had issues with the player actually like it. I'll be happy to have a full berlin template using sine


The thing about forums like this is the people who don't have issues don't have a reason to come here and write about it, whereas those with issues want to voice their discontent as much as possible. This can leave people with a massively skewed sense of actual user satisfaction. I've used SINE in multiple large Cubase sessions with zero issues whatsoever.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

I still consider myself lucky that I've only experienced minor issues. 

mainly due to the engine's age, and my luck in general. But yes, the most vocal tend to he those having issues. That and since it's a new engine, you also have people who dont even have a horse in the race just coming to yell kontakt! just because they dont want a different player, not because they've actually experienced the player.

I understand sometimes stability or outright design issues, but it's really convenient that kontakt is the easiest for people to pirate, and that is - I'm sure - the motivation for some detractors.


----------



## AlainTH

do you speak about 'detractors' saying that it would be a good thing to have this in kontakt format since they have paid 700 euros and have bugs?... i think the team has to solve problems, no sense to claim constantly all is alright for you and you are 'lucky'


----------



## ProfoundSilence

AlainTH said:


> do you speak about 'detractors' saying that it would be a good thing to have this in kontakt format since they have paid 700 euros and have bugs?... i think the team has to solve problems, no sense to claim constantly all is alright for you and you are 'lucky'


have you ever loaded an enormous sample pool into kontakt before? Kontakt has it's own issues(the the super audio card thread). 

people had major issues when 5.8 launched not long ago, and frankly after realizing that kontakt simply has too much bloat to efficiently handle large sample pools - I'm glad somebody is doing something about it. now 3 of some of the biggest names in VI sampling use their own engine.


----------



## AlainTH

i sugest you would candidate to join the ot team


----------



## ProfoundSilence

AlainTH said:


> i sugest you would candidate to join the ot team


nope, 0 skills, dont speak German, and my job is more interesting to me than anything sampling related


----------



## Eptesicus

ProfoundSilence said:


> have you ever loaded an enormous sample pool into kontakt before? Kontakt has it's own issues(the the super audio card thread).
> 
> people had major issues when 5.8 launched not long ago, and frankly after realizing that kontakt simply has too much bloat to efficiently handle large sample pools - I'm glad somebody is doing something about it. now 3 of some of the biggest names in VI sampling use their own engine.



Kontakt hasn't crashed on me in years. In fact i cant remember the last time Kontakt crashed or ANYTHING crashed on my set up. Even Vienna's new Synchron player at least appears to be very stable.

SINE freezes/crashes regularly to the point where i don't want to use it.


----------



## jcrosby

Because some of us actually do have regular, reproducible problems with SINE. I've never previously had any complaints with OT. Through 6 OT Kontakt libraries, not a bone to pick outside of one kontakt-related authorization issue that was cleared up quickly... SINE however is a different story.


----------



## AlainTH

ProfoundSilence said:


> nope, 0 skills, dont speak German, and my job is more interesting to me than anything sampling related


i thought communicating job, they already excell but...


----------



## kmm08

All software have issues regardless of what version they are in. I've used almost every major audio software on the market at one point or another over the past 30 something years now. I've troubleshooted and beta tested for a number of companies. Kontakt has always had it's share of problems and still does. As mentioned, I also own most of the OT libraries. The problem is when you release a brand new version 1.0 software with basically no transition period, especially with the release of new libraries. As others have mentioned already, XL Brass was released at the same exact time as SINE, so nobody even had a chance to test the software out to determine how it was working. And of course the pre-release sale ended the same day as SINE's release. All previous issues that I've listed here have also been sent directly to OT to try and troubleshoot. The only reason for listing the issues on this forum is to see if others have similar issues with similar configurations, which could be helpful in the troubleshooting process. It doesn't really concern me whether people on these forums are fans of a particular company/software or not.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

kmm08 said:


> All software have issues regardless of what version they are in. I've used almost every major audio software on the market at one point or another over the past 30 something years now. I've troubleshooted and beta tested for a number of companies. Kontakt has always had it's share of problems and still does. As mentioned, I also own most of the OT libraries. The problem is when you release a brand new version 1.0 software with basically no transition period, especially with the release of new libraries. As others have mentioned already, XL Brass was released at the same exact time as SINE, so nobody even had a chance to test the software out to determine how it was working. And of course the pre-release sale ended the same day as SINE's release. All previous issues that I've listed here have also been sent directly to OT to try and troubleshoot. The only reason for listing the issues on this forum is to see if others have similar issues with similar configurations, which could be helpful in the troubleshooting process. It doesn't really concern me whether people on these forums are fans of a particular company/software or not.




I would have given SFAs player a shot as well but I wasnt interested in HZS. 

I still think releasing layers first would have been a wise decision, but I understand they are at the mercy or Junkie XL's multiple AAA scoring contract schedule - an extra brutal layer added. 

I get crashes from kontakt often enough, if I'm too impatient when opening instruments with a large sample pool - and this worsens greatly if said library isnt a player library.


----------



## jbuhler

ProfoundSilence said:


> no. not really.
> 
> you'll notice most of who haven't had issues with the player actually like it. I'll be happy to have a full berlin template using sine


I'm excited about Sine coming to Berlin Strings, because I think they will be more useable for me in Sine than I'm finding them in Kontakt, where Capsule just doesn't work very well for me (or I can't get my head around how it is supposed to work), at least for something with lots and lots of articulations as with Berlin Strings. I don't really have problems with Capsule when using the Arks or the Times.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jbuhler said:


> I'm excited about Sine coming to Berlin Strings, because I think they will be more useable for me in Sine than I'm finding them in Kontakt, where Capsule just doesn't work very well for me (or I can't get my head around how it is supposed to work), at least for something with lots and lots of articulations as with Berlin Strings. I don't really have problems with Capsule when using the Arks or the Times.


yeah that's the big thing for me.

Imaginging using my entire berlin collection with my own pre-mixed mics changes ALOT. I personally can't stand the "single tree + reverb sound" that's popular on the forums, I like a modern - multi mic+ close sound. 

the crazy thing that I've been fantasizing about - is whenever the functionality to load/purge microphones with midi is implemented... then you could come up with a mic mix for a section... i.e. you could have all your woodwinds setup for typical orchestral playing for chords/ect - then have a "flute solo" which is a little more centered, different mixed and with more close - like an actual soloist - then just pot the CC's in when you need to switch mics. 

maybe even some next level nerdery by making custom blends for multitimbral unisons... i.e. your celli and bassoon has their normal mic mix, then you ahve a "celli + bassoon" blend that tweaks the mics slightly so that they sit together more organically when played in unison without buildup issues.


----------



## jbuhler

ProfoundSilence said:


> I would have given SFAs player a shot as well but I wasnt interested in HZS.
> 
> I still think releasing layers first would have been a wise decision, but I understand they are at the mercy or Junkie XL's multiple AAA scoring contract schedule - an extra brutal layer added.
> 
> I get crashes from kontakt often enough, if I'm too impatient when opening instruments with a large sample pool - and this worsens greatly if said library isnt a player library.


I had several YEARS when Cinesamples could not fix my problem with Hollywood runs, which simply would not run in Kontakt. (It was finally fixed with a Kontakt update several years later.) Super Audio Cart has had Kontakt issues for a long time, apparently just fixed in 6.2.2. Many Kontakt libraries interact strangely with Logic, so much so that developers basically say you use them in Logic at your own risk. These kinds of programs are hard, and fully debugging them on all configurations and all platforms before release wouldn't be cost effective.

One reason I didn't look seriously at JXL Brass on release is because it seemed to me it would likely take awhile to work out the bugs of the new player, and the savings for buying on preorder wasn't worth it to me. I am planning now to try out an instrument or two with the a la carte option. If they work well, then I'll move to the full collection. Hopefully Berlin Strings or some of the other OT libraries I own will be ported to Sine sooner rather than later so I can get a better sense of how Sine works before investing in the full JXL Brass if I decide to go that way. But if not, at least the a la carte purchasing allows me to try out the engine and sound in a relatively low cost way.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jbuhler said:


> I had several YEARS when Cinesamples could not fix my problem with Hollywood runs, which simply would not run in Kontakt. (It was finally fixed with a Kontakt update several years later.) Super Audio Cart has had Kontakt issues for a long time, apparently just fixed in 6.2.2. Many Kontakt libraries interact strangely with Logic, so much so that developers basically say you use them in Logic at your own risk. These kinds of programs are hard, and fully debugging them on all configurations and all platforms before release wouldn't be cost effective.
> 
> One reason I didn't look seriously at JXL Brass on release is because it seemed to me it would likely take awhile to work out the bugs of the new player, and the savings for buying on preorder wasn't worth it to me. I am planning now to try out an instrument or two with the a la carte option. If they work well, then I'll move to the full collection. Hopefully Berlin Strings or some of the other OT libraries I own will be ported to Sine sooner rather than later so I can get a better sense of how Sine works before investing in the full JXL Brass if I decide to go that way. But if not, at least the a la carte purchasing allows me to try out the engine and sound in a relatively low cost way.



well since you have ark 1, you should buy the a3 bass bones or a3 cimbassi then you can compare similar instruments/wildly different sampling depth and ui. 

I would have literally NEVER went out of my way to buy what I normally consider "silly" section sizes, until i had them under my fingers and they make me want to melt.


----------



## jbuhler

I'll start with the solo trombone, which I may even buy today, since it is reasonably inexpensive and it is something that I find SSB needs supplementation with. I may go for some of the other low brass next. Besides Arks 1-3, I have Iceni, which I often use to supplement SSB, and I like a little better than the Arks for bass brass reinforcement in apocalyptic ffff passages, since with Ark I have to dial in multiple instruments. (Your idea of making personalized Sine combinations will be great for this sort of thing, and it potentially eats away at the advantages ensemble libraries enjoy for certain scoring situations.) I am now very tempted by the bass bones a3. You really do sell this library very well!


----------



## jamwerks

The Alan Meyerson mixes sound awesome. OT should do something similare when Berlin Brass makes it to Sine!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jbuhler said:


> I'll start with the solo trombone, which I may even buy today, since it is reasonably inexpensive and it is something that I find SSB needs supplementation with. I may go for some of the other low brass next. Besides Arks 1-3, I have Iceni, which I often use to supplement SSB, and I like a little better than the Arks for bass brass reinforcement in apocalyptic ffff passages, since with Ark I have to dial in multiple instruments. (Your idea of making personalized Sine combinations will be great for this sort of thing, and it potentially eats away at the advantages ensemble libraries enjoy for certain scoring situations.) I am now very tempted by the bass bones a3. You really do sell this library very well!


the bass bones are probably my favorite. They move so much air on the staccatissimo. and yet have a golden warm pianissimo. 

I love turning off the top 2 layers and using a 2nd cc for volume and just playing gooey warm chords


----------



## jbuhler

ProfoundSilence said:


> the bass bones are probably my favorite. They move so much air on the staccatissimo. and yet have a golden warm pianissimo.
> 
> I love turning off the top 2 layers and using a 2nd cc for volume and just playing gooey warm chords


Yes, this functionality of being able to turn on and off layers is something I really like with OT, even in the Kontakt libraries. Are there noticeable jumps in the the JXL Brass shorts as you work through the velocities one by one? That's one difficulty I've had with all of my brass libraries.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jbuhler said:


> Yes, this functionality of being able to turn on and off layers is something I really like with OT, even in the Kontakt libraries. Are there noticeable jumps in the the JXL Brass shorts as you work through the velocities one by one? That's one difficulty I've had with all of my brass libraries.



no, I thought about doing a crossfade comparison though.


----------



## jacobthestupendous

jononotbono said:


> Yeah I can’t see how something always connecting to the internet is a good thing for something like this. It’s like the Hub in Cubase. That gets turned off immediately on a clean installation.


According to OT, like a thousand pages ago, the store doesn't actually load up unless you open that tab.


----------



## jononotbono

jacobthestupendous said:


> According to OT, like a thousand pages ago, the store doesn't actually load up unless you open that tab.



Interesting. Yeah I missed that post. This thread is out of control at this point.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Using similar a2-a4 tenor trombone patches from various brass libraries - I used the same midi data with a rough volume match. Some of the louder more aggressive libraries are pushed back a little, because they would end up being a good bit louder. I used only 1 mic from each, generally being a Decca Tree or similar, with no reverb(except Chris Hein, which would probably sound dreadful without it) It's lower E's in octave and it's a smooth ride from cc1 1-127, with a brief pause on 127 followed by a brief silence.

Libraries used in order:
Spitfire Symphonic Brass
Cinebrass Core
Modern Scoring
Brass Berlin Brass
Chris Hein Orchestral Brass
Junkie XL Brass

This should give a good indication on the number of true dynamic layers as well as how well the crossfades are handled.


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## AlainTH

very useful. would like listen century as well..


----------



## OrchestralTools

Hey everyone,

To all Junkie XL Brass collection + single instrument owners:

*The Junkie XL Brass update (1.1) is now available!*

We know some of you have been waiting for this, so thanks for being patient.


*How to update:*​
Make sure you’re using the latest version of SINE. It only launched two days ago, so if you haven’t updated SINE in the last two days, you’ll need to download the update here.​
Open SINE, go to ‘My Licenses’. All instruments that have updates waiting will show ‘Add Update’. Click the button to add the update to the queue.​
Tobias has created some useful documents on our Helpdesk: https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/

And for more details on updating instruments in SINE, there’s a step-by-step guide here: 
Downloading updates
​*What’s in the update?*
Junkie XL Brass update includes:


Full brass patches for sketching ideas are now available for the Sustains, Stacatissimo, and Marcato Short articulations
Horns a6: Re-edited and re-tuned Legato transitions 
Trombones a6: Tuning issues fixed 
Cimbassi a3: Various sample and editing issues fixed
Refined tuning on Staccato and Staccatissimo patches for Trombones a3 + a6, and Trumpets a3 + a6
Various minor improvements and fixes

And in case you missed it on Wednesday, this is the info on the SINE update:

*The SINE Player 1.0.2 *

We fixed some specific issues, including:

The hanging legato notes issue, when switching between articulations with variable key ranges
PolyMaps are now correctly recalled in existing projects
And Junkie XL Brass and Layers will load fine on case-sensitive drive formats
Performance is not degraded when playing an instance while another instance is loading
No performance issues when using higher MIDI channel numbers
Projects will now load and close faster
*Read the full changelog here:* https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/366-sine-player-changelog 


*How do I find which SINE version I have installed?*
We saw this question so to answer:
In SINE, click _Options_ then _Advanced Settings_.
Making the version number more visible is on our to-do list but for this SINE update, our main focus was on performance.

Some of you have been asking why we’re releasing these updates so quietly… be assured there is a method to this madness. We decided to release the SINE and Junkie XL Brass updates separately to reduce risk and to make it easier to isolate any issues. We’ll announce both updates to the wider world on Monday (23rd May), but we figured you people on VI wouldn’t want to wait. Hope that clarifies things!

Thank you again to all of you who reported issues to: [email protected] This really does help us to improve things. We focused on performance in these updates, and we’re so happy to hear that SINE is now working great for some of you. 
But if you run into a bug, please reach out to our support. This helps us find the issue and then build the fix. It also means our support team can provide you with fixes and solutions to help make SINE quicker for you to use.

To reiterate: SINE is a priority for us and we’re committed to making it perfect for everyone, so thanks again for your continued support and feedback.

Best,

OT


----------



## Robin

Thanks for the Update! I guess they don't apply to any custom merged mixes? What's the recommended procedure to update those?


----------



## Peter Satera

Thank you for the update.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Robin said:


> Thanks for the Update! I guess they don't apply to any custom merged mixes? What's the recommended procedure to update those?



interesting point, I suppose anytime there is a sample update we'd have to re-do our custom mixes. Suppose making a savable mic mix prior to merging will be absolutely key in updating


----------



## G_Erland

Im just getting a JSON error - JSON data invalid. Anybody know what thats about?


----------



## Nils Neumann

G_Erland said:


> Im just getting a JSON error - JSON data invalid. Anybody know what thats about?


When does it happen?


----------



## G_Erland

The update downloads says unpacking, then unpacked then a white pop up window prompts the error.


----------



## Andrajas

I seem to also have problems with updating. Never seem to finish


----------



## G_Erland

Andrajas said:


> I seem to also have problems with updating. Never seem to finish


Mine also when i first tried, then when some finished, or I try single instruments i get the JSON error.


----------



## G_Erland

Seems to have fixed itself...for what its worth I tried downloading the full brass patch, but then cancelled it. Afterwards single instruments seems to download, unpack and then move as expected..


----------



## Andrajas

G_Erland said:


> Seems to have fixed itself...for what its worth I tried downloading the full brass patch, but then cancelled it. Afterwards single instruments seems to download, unpack and then move as expected..


ah! mine is still stuck and crashes a lot, I have cancelled it a lot by this point, but still stuck and just being really annoying...


----------



## G_Erland

Andrajas said:


> ah! mine is still stuck and crashes a lot, I have cancelled it a lot by this point, but still stuck and just being really annoying...


When I downloaded the lib originally I was messing with it a lot thinking it was stuck - but OT support adviced med to just let be which I did, for a loong time, but it worked.


----------



## Andrajas

G_Erland said:


> When I downloaded the lib originally I was messing with it a lot thinking it was stuck - but OT support adviced med to just let be which I did, for a loong time, but it worked.


Ah thanks! Will just leave it on and see what happens


----------



## Andrajas

had it on the whole day, still didn't finish, it starts to be an issue now..


----------



## G_Erland

Are you downloading all at once? Over here some updates were really fast, while some (horns a6, cimbassi, trumpets a3) took longer (but not as long as the counter said, which was something like 6 hours, but rather more like an hour and half). They are big, and i suppose also www speed and server load comes into play.


----------



## jcrosby

Andrajas said:


> had it on the whole day, still didn't finish, it starts to be an issue now..


Did it crash on you by any chance when attempting to download something? I have a similar issue that happened after Sine crashed during a download. I relaunched, it shows it's trying to resume but it never downloads. I left it for a few hours and nothing happened. Finally I attempted to cancel but it just stays in a state of "cancelling", again nothing happens. I basically can't download the trombones a6 I was downloading when it crashed.

I've messaged [email protected]. Hopefully it's just a cached file that can be deleted.


----------



## OT_Tobias

Hi folks,

very sorry to hear you are having update issues!
Please try the following: Delete your Library.json (see https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/333-deleting-your-library-json), then go to wherever you have the intruments installed and look in Orchestral Tools/Downloads. Delete that downloads folder, but NOT the Content folder.
Then re-import all existing instruments into SINE as described at https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/303-how-to-use-the-library-view ("Add existing Collections/Instruments") by clicking on +Collection in the top right of the Library. That will import the existing content.
Then please try updating again.

best

Tobias


----------



## blue5

Thanks OT for the update!
Is it just me or someone can check? But playing repetitions with staccatissimo patch in the new Full Brass is unplayable. There is some sort of a cutoff, it's more noticeable in the lower range


----------



## Virtuoso

blue5 said:


> Thanks OT for the update!
> Is it just me or someone can check? But playing repetitions with staccatissimo patch in the new Full Brass is unplayable. There is some sort of a cutoff, it's more noticeable in the lower range


I'm not getting that on mine - the staccatissimos are working fine.

The only thing I've found so far is that the RAM gauge sits there for quite a long time when loading a new patch (~18 seconds) before suddenly updating to almost the full amount. I don't remember that happening in the last version.


----------



## JyTy

Opened the new version on a bigger project, switched one solo horn with Sine and JunkieXL patch ... Logic crashed as before on the first try  ... I'm really starting to regret this purchase a bit no matter how awesome it sounds ...

Lots of you were having issues before, is it better now for anyone?


----------



## blue5

Virtuoso said:


> I'm not getting that on mine - the staccatissimos are working fine.
> 
> The only thing I've found so far is that the RAM gauge sits there for quite a long time when loading a new patch (~18 seconds) before suddenly updating to almost the full amount. I don't remember that happening in the last version.



I got that too in previous version. Also with latest update, loading legato patches it takes even longer, 20-30 seconds RAM is doing nothing than suddenly loads full amount in a second. Other patches seem to be ok. Loading speed improved indeed, except for this bug. Will send them report once I have time


----------



## Andrajas

OT_Tobias said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> very sorry to hear you are having update issues!
> Please try the following: Delete your Library.json (see https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/333-deleting-your-library-json), then go to wherever you have the intruments installed and look in Orchestral Tools/Downloads. Delete that downloads folder, but NOT the Content folder.
> Then re-import all existing instruments into SINE as described at https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/303-how-to-use-the-library-view ("Add existing Collections/Instruments") by clicking on +Collection in the top right of the Library. That will import the existing content.
> Then please try updating again.
> 
> best
> 
> Tobias


this might be strange, but I don't find any folder with orchestral tools and a library.json ...

I did send a ticket to you, but this starts to get on my nerves, is there someway to just delete the whole library and reinstall everything?


----------



## jcrosby

JyTy said:


> Opened the new version on a bigger project, switched one solo horn with Sine and JunkieXL patch ... Logic crashed as before on the first try  ... I'm really starting to regret this purchase a bit no matter how awesome it sounds ...
> 
> Lots of you were having issues before, is it better now for anyone?


I don't see most of the previous issues on my end, but did with 1.0.1. It does look like there's still a bug when I save a project using _save as_. I saw it once but haven't fully tested it, will do that this evening.. What OS are you on? Also have you tried the recommendation to untick 'lock preload data into RAM'? (_Options _-> _Advanced Settings_). One other thing... I would have a 

Re the json file - found it... it's in your _user/library/application support/orchestral tools_ folder. I'm going to try the fix shortly, will follow up if Tobias's instructions fixed the download issue. 

Re: _Full brass_ shorts - They also are playing back fine here. Maybe see if the preload data setting has any effect? (Aside from the bones a6 not downloading I did manage to download everything else before crashing.) Other than that no idea unfortunately, hope you get it sorted!


----------



## jcrosby

Removing _*Library.json*_ worked. Trombones a6 downloaded with no issues. Adding the collection back worked as well, (You might see a partial list if you didn't re-download everything, just choose the _content_ folder as per the instructions above...) Issue easily resolved here, hoping it works for others.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

jcrosby said:


> Removing _*Library.json*_ worked. Trombones a6 downloaded with no issues. Adding the collection back worked as well, (You might see a partial list if you didn't re-download everything, just choose the _content_ folder as per the instructions above...) Issue easily resolved here, hoping it works for others.


thanks for the heads up, I've been working non stop and havent turned my computer on since the update


----------



## jcrosby

ProfoundSilence said:


> thanks for the heads up, I've been working non stop and havent turned my computer on since the update



You bet. So far 1.0.2 is a lot more stable and the updated instruments sound better. Cheers.


----------



## Andrajas

My problem has been solve, looks like the UI was stuck cause the updates were done. But Big thanks Tobias for the help to solve everything!


----------



## Zero&One

On Mac, I had moved the sample install folder at some point. The update still wanted to install there even though it doesn't exist now. No way to select another location either. App reinstall/reset didn't work either.

Fix, just remove the library from within the App. Then click the + and add the new location
Worked fine after.

Just thought I'd leave that for anyone that has a similar problem in the future.


----------



## OrchestralTools

Hey everyone,

We hope you’re all enjoying the new updates–thanks for all your comments. And as always, please reach out to our support if you run into any issues: [email protected].

In the video below, Hendrik talks about some ideas for the next update and provides some background on the updates.



In case you missed it, you can download the new updates by following the steps below:

How to update:​
Make sure you’re using the latest version of SINE. It only launched two days ago, so if you haven’t updated SINE in the last two days, you’ll need to download the update here.​
Open SINE, go to ‘My Licenses’. All instruments that have updates waiting will show ‘Add Update’. Click the button to add the update to the queue.​
Tobias has created some useful documents on our Helpdesk: https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/

And for more details on updating instruments in SINE, there’s a step-by-step guide here: Downloading updates

Thanks so much again for your patience and support. Let us know if you have any questions about the new update or even some feature requests–SINE was built with you in mind so we appreciate your feedback!

Best,

OT


----------



## KEM

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> We hope you’re all enjoying the new updates–thanks for all your comments. And as always, please reach out to our support if you run into any issues: [email protected].
> 
> In the video below, Hendrik talks about some ideas for the next update and provides some background on the updates.
> 
> 
> 
> In case you missed it, you can download the new updates by following the steps below:
> 
> How to update:​
> Make sure you’re using the latest version of SINE. It only launched two days ago, so if you haven’t updated SINE in the last two days, you’ll need to download the update here.​
> Open SINE, go to ‘My Licenses’. All instruments that have updates waiting will show ‘Add Update’. Click the button to add the update to the queue.​
> Tobias has created some useful documents on our Helpdesk: https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/
> 
> And for more details on updating instruments in SINE, there’s a step-by-step guide here: Downloading updates
> 
> Thanks so much again for your patience and support. Let us know if you have any questions about the new update or even some feature requests–SINE was built with you in mind so we appreciate your feedback!
> 
> Best,
> 
> OT




Wasn’t aware a new update was out but thank you!! Going to update as soon as I can


----------



## Saxer

Is it possible to set single articulations from CC to velocity in Sine player?


----------



## jononotbono

I’m going to try splitting it into different VI Frames in VEPro on a dedicated Brass slave.

Have to say, I’m so loving this library. The consistency between arts is amazing!


----------



## jononotbono

Ok so I’ve just updated to latest Sine and updated the JXLB instrument updates and twice now the Sine player is stuck on a beach ball. It’s inside VEPro 6.

Anyone experiencing this? Having to close Cubase and then force quit the VEPro machine to load it all again and then get another Beach ball is becoming a drag.


----------



## jononotbono

Unfortunately I have this error now as well. Any ideas? Please tell me I do not have to redownloading 300gb of Samples again?







Ok so this error only appears when I load Solo Trumpets. I'm guessing if Delete them and then redownloading them it will likely fix it?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Saxer said:


> Is it possible to set single articulations from CC to velocity in Sine player?


i.e staccato = cc1 and staccattissimo = velocity? 

if so, yes


----------



## Eptesicus

jononotbono said:


> Ok so I’ve just updated to latest Sine and updated the JXLB instrument updates and twice now the Sine player is stuck on a beach ball. It’s inside VEPro 6.
> 
> Anyone experiencing this? Having to close Cubase and then force quit the VEPro machine to load it all again and then get another Beach ball is becoming a drag.



Welcome to the fun


----------



## jononotbono

Eptesicus said:


> Welcome to the fun



I’m redownloading the whole 300gb. Something messed up the updates and nothing would update properly and Sine keep freezing VEPro 6 and Cubase.


----------



## gst98

jononotbono said:


> Unfortunately I have this error now as well. Any ideas? Please tell me I do not have to redownloading 300gb of Samples again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so this error only appears when I load Solo Trumpets. I'm guessing if Delete them and then redownloading them it will likely fix it?



I've stared having that error and getting a lot of beach balling and having to force quit since the last update. That error went away reloading the session I think.


----------



## jononotbono

Well I just got up to check the download as I've left it on over night. 

So I now have to start again.


----------



## jononotbono

Maybe not. The folder size of the download is...

It would be good if I didn't have to re-download.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Loving JXL Brass, just wish the marcatos were a bit faster on the attack, they also feel a little out of tune compared to the other articulations, and they're just not as smooth as I'd like them to be. Even at low velocities and low mod wheel cc the marcatos can be a bit rough and buzzy instead of the nice mellowness you can get with the other articulations


----------



## jononotbono

I've just been using JXLB (before updating it) and it's amazing. Truly incredible. But if it's unstable and crashes/freezes my template then it's not incredible. And needs fixing. I think that's fair to say that.


----------



## Eptesicus

jononotbono said:


> I've just been using JXLB (before updating it) and it's amazing. Truly incredible. But if it's unstable and crashes/freezes my template then it's not incredible. And needs fixing. I think that's fair to say that.



Yeh its a shame. The library itself is brilliant (apart from the trumpets), but the stability is not there yet.


----------



## jononotbono

I forgot to actually check this but are the Mic Positions now CC assignable? This was a feature request from the start and I can't wait for that. I'm just being lazy at the minute and can't turn on my slave that it's installed on. My apartment is like an oven right now and the thought of turning on a Mac Pro 5,1 is a rather ghastly one at that!


----------



## OrchestralTools

jononotbono said:


> I've just been using JXLB (before updating it) and it's amazing. Truly incredible. But if it's unstable and crashes/freezes my template then it's not incredible. And needs fixing. I think that's fair to say that.



Hey jononotbono,

Please reach out to our support team, they'll be happy to try and solve this for you.

As a general point: Anytime you run into any issues, please send an email to them at [email protected]. If the issue is specific to your system, our support team will need to reproduce it in order to fix it, so additional screenshots or videos are much appreciated.

If the issue isn't specific to you, there may already be a fix and our support team can tell you how to resolve it. Or we may not be aware of the issue, in which case telling us is a big help and means we can start working on a fix.

Thanks,

OT


----------



## jononotbono

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey jononotbono,
> 
> Please reach out to our support team, they'll be happy to try and solve this for you.
> 
> As a general point: Anytime you run into any issues, please send an email to them at [email protected]. If the issue is specific to your system, our support team will need to reproduce it in order to fix it, so additional screenshots or videos are much appreciated.
> 
> If the issue isn't specific to you, there may already be a fix and our support team can tell you how to resolve it. Or we may not be aware of the issue, in which case telling us is a big help and means we can start working on a fix.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> OT



Im definitely going to reach out. Just been a bit busy over the past couple of weeks which is when I really started using it since buying it.

Thanks and honestly, JXLB is amazing.

Bono


----------



## Karl Feuerstake

I had a question for some owners here;

How many round-robins are on Marcato Long? Short? Staccato / issimo?
Thank you


----------



## Ruffian Price

Marcato Long and Short are 3xRR, Staccato and Staccatissimo 8xRR. Seems to apply to all patches, unless I missed something.


----------



## Karl Feuerstake

Ruffian Price said:


> Marcato Long and Short are 3xRR, Staccato and Staccatissimo 8xRR. Seems to apply to all patches, unless I missed something.



Cheers!


----------



## blackzeroaudio

So first time using the JXL Brass for an action cue, sounds great.

Issue I'm coming up with is that the attack isn't quite fast enough so I'm having to pull back a few notes so the MIDI hits a little early. 

Anyone else doing this or am I just an idiot and doing something wrong?


----------



## David Kudell

blackzeroaudio said:


> So first time using the JXL Brass for an action cue, sounds great.
> 
> Issue I'm coming up with is that the attack isn't quite fast enough so I'm having to pull back a few notes so the MIDI hits a little early.
> 
> Anyone else doing this or am I just an idiot and doing something wrong?


If you want to do faster lines the Marcato articulations might work better.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

it will never line up on the grid and sound correct unless you have a negative delay on the track to compensate.


----------



## Nils Neumann

Yes 40-60ms delay are helpfull


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Nils Neumann said:


> Yes 40-60ms delay are helpfull


ofcourse it's worth clarifying that this is something generally all VI need


----------



## Jack Weaver

David Kudell said:


> If you want to do faster lines the Marcato articulations might work better.


I was trying the Horn6 Long Marcatos and indeed the attacks were too long for a piece @ 90BPM. I was a little surprised at this. I didn't want Bwaahh... The tone was good but the articulation didn't meet my attack needs. 

I hope this isn't the case with the other instruments. I haven't gotten around to trying them all in context yet. 

.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Jack Weaver said:


> I was trying the Horn6 Long Marcatos and indeed the attacks were too long for a piece @ 90BPM. I was a little surprised at this. I didn't want Bwaahh... The tone was good but the articulation didn't meet my attack needs.
> 
> I hope this isn't the case with the other instruments. I haven't gotten around to trying them all in context yet.
> 
> .


I think I know what you mean and had a similar problem, its not so much that the note has a delay so you have to line it up, its the long attack itself on the marcatos, so sometimes when playing a fast phrase and switching from staccatissimo repetitions to a marcato long, there’s a sort of bwaaah swell on the attack of the marcato, theyre not quite as tight and instant as the staccatissimos


----------



## Nils Neumann

ProfoundSilence said:


> ofcourse it's worth clarifying that this is something generally all VI need


Yes, I just spend 2 days finding the right delay compensation for 1000+ Tracks😅
But it’s definitely worth it, mostly for all shorts and percussion.


----------



## Nils Neumann

pawelmorytko said:


> I think I know what you mean and had a similar problem, its not so much that the note has a delay so you have to line it up, its the long attack itself on the marcatos, so sometimes when playing a fast phrase and switching from staccatissimo repetitions to a marcato long, there’s a sort of bwaaah swell on the attack of the marcato, theyre not quite as tight and instant as the staccatissimos


But seems quite natural?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

pawelmorytko said:


> I think I know what you mean and had a similar problem, its not so much that the note has a delay so you have to line it up, its the long attack itself on the marcatos, so sometimes when playing a fast phrase and switching from staccatissimo repetitions to a marcato long, there’s a sort of bwaaah swell on the attack of the marcato, theyre not quite as tight and instant as the staccatissimos




this is 100% how the instrument works... you're still free to use the sustain patch as well... one thing to keep in mind, is that you can't have these really "blatty" tight aggressive staccatissimo in the middle of the phrase and it sound natural, this took about 2 seconds to do, just recorded using the legato patch, and not going to crazy on the dynamics - then I just swapped some of the notes out for staccato and staccatissimo. Suprisingly I happened to play pretty closely the velocities I would need on the original legato pass, so I didn't need to adjust them - but I would suggest backing the dynamics off of the shorts until they match the general attack strength of the sustain. If you're using the marcato, don't forget that you have staccato too - staccattissimo won't sound natural unless its a grace note or something very close to the marcato. If there is space for a staccato - it'll flow more naturally between the two attack types.


----------



## Bear Market

Nils Neumann said:


> Yes, I just spend 2 days finding the right delay compensation for 1000+ Tracks😅
> But it’s definitely worth it, mostly for all shorts and percussion.



I'm in the midst of something similar. Out of curiosity, do you go by ear or print to audio and look at the waveform? Is there a best practice for finding the sweet spot for delay compensation?


----------



## Nils Neumann

Bear Market said:


> I'm in the midst of something similar. Out of curiosity, do you go by ear or print to audio and look at the waveform? Is there a best practice for finding the sweet spot for delay compensation?



Print, otherwise to many errors after 1000 Tracks.

I would suggest printing a phrase with 8th notes in a comfortably range for the instrument. Even better if you use 2-3 different shorts of the patch, just to be sure.

And still, in the end it won’t be perfect.


----------



## Bear Market

Nils Neumann said:


> Print, otherwise to many errors after 1000 Tracks.



Thanks. I would have felt like crap if you had said that you got great results going by ear... :D


----------



## Nils Neumann

Bear Market said:


> Thanks. I would have felt like crap if you had said that you got great results going by ear... :D




Haha yes, would feel the same^^ but when correcting a few ms you can‘t do that 100% reliable by ear. But maybe someone could prove me wrong?^^


----------



## Ruffian Price

I record with a short click and adjust delays looking at the waveform (for percussion) or spectrogram (for tonal instruments, to sync the moment the fundamental appears - sometimes stuff like the initial bow scrape has higher peaks, but should still go before the beat)


----------



## Nils Neumann

Ruffian Price said:


> I record with a short click and adjust delays looking at the waveform (for percussion) or spectrogram (for tonal instruments, to sync the moment the fundamental appears - sometimes stuff like the initial bow scrape has higher peaks, but should still go before the beat)


that's interesting, but I feel like the first real transient is more important that the first ringing of the fundamental. Shorts on strings have a percussive nature, so the percussive impact should be on point.

Do you think there is a massive problem occurring when not taking the fundamentals into account?


----------



## shawnsingh

A great example would be a choir singing pronounced syllables. Singing something like "Krah" - the "K" and then the "r" would both happen before the beat, and musically we'd usually want the beat to fall on the "ah" part. The "K" sound would definitely be unpitched noise-like transient burst, and the "r" might also not be very pitched, I think. But all that consonant pre-attack can be tens of milliseconds.

From the examples and conversation you all are having, I'm beginning to think that there's no generalization that works well enough. It seems like you have to change the heuristic differently for each instrument category.

For me personally, I've never really gone through the trouble of lining up attacks other than to shift MIDI notes. It has not yet been too painful for me to deal with the issue, at least not yet. I'm 100x more inaccurate with my MIDI recording skills anyway, but then for the sake of keeping natural performances, don't want to 100% quantize either. So in that situation, benefits of fixing attacks is kind of lost, isn't it? I end up tweaking note-on timings from 50% quantized MIDI performances, anyway.


----------



## Bear Market

shawnsingh said:


> but then for the sake of keeping natural performances, don't want to 100% quantize either. So in that situation, benefits of fixing attacks is kind of lost, isn't it?



I would think that this way of thinking is based on an assumption that developers cut samples with 100% accuracy and consistency across round robins. Which in my experience is far from the case (in varying degree based on the developer). The way I see it, the "natural performance" is already there as a product of the sample editing. Even at 100% quantize you will not get unnatural, robotic accuracy.


----------



## OrchestralTools

Hey everyone,

We’ve just released a new update for the solo horn and horns (a4, a6, and a12) in Junkie XL Brass. It contains improved legato playability as well as some minor fixes.
Before you update, please make sure you have the latest version of SINE installed (v1.0.3.509).

Download the latest version of SINE here


*How to update Junkie XL Brass*
_(update only for Solo Horn, Horns a4, Horns a6, Horns a12)_

To update, head to ‘My Licenses’ in SINE and update as required.

We also have a step-by-step guide on how to update SINE collections on our Helpdesk:
https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/320-downloading-updates

If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to our dedicated support team: [email protected].​
Thank you to everyone who contacted us via support or commented on this thread. Let us know if you have any questions about the new update or even some SINE feature requests—SINE was built with you in mind so we appreciate your feedback!

Best,

OT


----------



## zolhof

I also found out that I had updates for the trumpet, tuba, and a whole new Full Brass collection at a whopping 100GB. So it's worth checking that tab from time to time, OT has been keeping busy. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Eptesicus

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> We’ve just released a new update for the solo horn and horns (a4, a6, and a12) in Junkie XL Brass. It contains improved legato playability as well as some minor fixes.
> Before you update, please make sure you have the latest version of SINE installed (v1.0.3.509).
> 
> Download the latest version of SINE here
> 
> 
> *How to update Junkie XL Brass*
> _(update only for Solo Horn, Horns a4, Horns a6, Horns a12)_
> 
> To update, head to ‘My Licenses’ in SINE and update as required.
> 
> We also have a step-by-step guide on how to update SINE collections on our Helpdesk:
> https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/320-downloading-updates
> 
> If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to our dedicated support team: [email protected].​
> Thank you to everyone who contacted us via support or commented on this thread. Let us know if you have any questions about the new update or even some SINE feature requests—SINE was built with you in mind so we appreciate your feedback!
> 
> Best,
> 
> OT



Thanks. Will give this a try once i finish the project i'm working on.


----------



## pawelmorytko

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> We’ve just released a new update for the solo horn and horns (a4, a6, and a12) in Junkie XL Brass. It contains improved legato playability as well as some minor fixes.
> Before you update, please make sure you have the latest version of SINE installed (v1.0.3.509).
> 
> Download the latest version of SINE here
> 
> 
> *How to update Junkie XL Brass*
> _(update only for Solo Horn, Horns a4, Horns a6, Horns a12)_
> 
> To update, head to ‘My Licenses’ in SINE and update as required.
> 
> We also have a step-by-step guide on how to update SINE collections on our Helpdesk:
> https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/320-downloading-updates
> 
> If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to our dedicated support team: [email protected].​
> Thank you to everyone who contacted us via support or commented on this thread. Let us know if you have any questions about the new update or even some SINE feature requests—SINE was built with you in mind so we appreciate your feedback!
> 
> Best,
> 
> OT


Hi there,

I'm trying to update the a4 horns now, and because I have deleted the Close Mic folder to save some space, when updating it's asking me to find the missing Close Mic folder. Only thing I can do is relocate it, which I can't because it doesn't exist anymore, or abort loading, but then it doesn't download the update for all the other mics I have. I can't seem to be able to redownload the close mic because it's all greyed out.






Best,

Pawel


----------



## Nils Neumann

pawelmorytko said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I'm trying to update the a4 horns now, and because I have deleted the Close Mic folder to save some space, when updating it's asking me to find the missing Close Mic folder. Only thing I can do is relocate it, which I can't because it doesn't exist anymore, or abort loading, but then it doesn't download the update for all the other mics I have. I can't seem to be able to redownload the close mic because it's all greyed out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Pawel


Then you have to delete your library.jason file and load the samples again. If you tell me which system you are I can help you find it, but I think it got mentioned a few times here


----------



## pawelmorytko

Nils Neumann said:


> Then you have to delete your library.jason file and load the samples again. If you tell me which system you are I can help you find it, but I think it got mentioned a few times here


Ohh is it that issue again, I think i remember how to do it, thanks ill try that!


----------



## pawelmorytko

So I deleted the Json file, but now Sine Player seems to think I don't have any mics installed/downloaded at all. And the option to update is now gone too

Edit: Nevermind, I couldn't update it on the standalone app, but inside Logic the update option was back and let me update the mics I actually have downloaded. The update took like 2 seconds, but I hope it went okay and did it properly though


----------



## Kartus

I hear on the marcato long patch (edit: French Horns 12a) on default medium dynamic, when pressing very shortly, a noise at the end of the samples on the notes of F3#,G3 and quietly on Bb3 (I hear it better when volume loud +12db).


----------



## gussunkri

Easter eggs..

Also, did you mention which instrument that is?


----------



## Kartus

French Horns 12a, Marcato Long.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

guys, i need guidance...
For the orchestral stab sorta stuff with big brass, should I go with a3 Tenor Trombones + Tuba or a3 Bass Trombones + Tuba? 
Will the Tenor's be enough on their own? Not too satisfied with any of my trombone articulations in any of my other libs.


----------



## KEM

NeonMediaKJT said:


> guys, i need guidance...
> For the orchestral stab sorta stuff with big brass, should I go with a3 Tenor Trombones + Tuba or a3 Bass Trombones + Tuba?
> Will the Tenor's be enough on their own? Not too satisfied with any of my trombone articulations in any of my other libs.



I always do the Bass Trombones, they have the most bite for sure and adding the Tuba gives a nice round low end, sounds very full.


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## NeonMediaKJT

KEM said:


> I also do the Bass Trombones, they have the most bite for sure and adding the Tuba gives a nice round low end, sounds very full.


Hmmm... I might only be able to do two for now. Which two would you go for first and then the other later?


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## Nils Neumann

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hmmm... I might only be able to do two for now. Which two would you go for first and then the other later?


Tuba, a3 Tenor. 

Great combo.


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## richardt4520

Either are a great combo. You said you don't like the tenors you currently have, so that may be what you need. But if the issue is that your tenors are too thin, you're going to have the same issue here because these are as well. It's the instrument. If you're looking for a fuller trombone sound that still has bite, get those Basses. They will fill the hole between the tenors you already have and the tuba, which sounds beautiful.


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## KEM

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hmmm... I might only be able to do two for now. Which two would you go for first and then the other later?



I think you can get more out of the Tenor Trombones as they’re more versatile in general, but in this specific scenario the Bass Trombones would be a better fit. I would say get the Tenor and Tuba just because you’ll get the most use out of them, and if you end up wanting more bite just get the Bass later on.


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## David Kudell

Perhaps consider the Cimbassi as well, I love them in this library.


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## Pablocrespo

Cimbassi are so beefy, I only have the brass bones and cimbassi and love them. debating which size of tenors and french horns to get next


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## KEM

Pablocrespo said:


> Cimbassi are so beefy, I only have the brass bones and cimbassi and love them. debating which size of tenors and french horns to get next



I’d say get the larger sized sections for whichever instrument you use more for melodies, and get a smaller size for the one you use for chords. For example, I always use the 12 horns/bones for melodies, but chords I use the 4 horns/3 bones.


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## NeonMediaKJT

Hey guys, I just want to ask one more time before I pay into any Sine player instruments:

How is 1.0.5 working for you guys regarding stability? I had this issue with the Sine player whenever I used 'Layers' in a project where my project would crash on load up whenever it tried to load the Sine Player and I had to restart my PC to get the project to load properly. It was some kind of C++ Runtime error.

Has that been fixed now? I've updated the Sine Player just now so hopefully the issue is gone. How's it working for Reaper users?

Cheers!


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## Larbguy

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hey guys, I just want to ask one more time before I pay into any Sine player instruments:
> 
> How is 1.0.5 working for you guys regarding stability? I had this issue with the Sine player whenever I used 'Layers' in a project where my project would crash on load up whenever it tried to load the Sine Player and I had to restart my PC to get the project to load properly. It was some kind of C++ Runtime error.
> 
> Has that been fixed now? I've updated the Sine Player just now so hopefully the issue is gone. How's it working for Reaper users?
> 
> Cheers!


I haven't experienced any crashes on 1.05, its been amazing. And i experienced MANY crashes on 1.04 and 1.03. I am using Logic on a Mac, however


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## Nils Neumann

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Hey guys, I just want to ask one more time before I pay into any Sine player instruments:
> 
> How is 1.0.5 working for you guys regarding stability? I had this issue with the Sine player whenever I used 'Layers' in a project where my project would crash on load up whenever it tried to load the Sine Player and I had to restart my PC to get the project to load properly. It was some kind of C++ Runtime error.
> 
> Has that been fixed now? I've updated the Sine Player just now so hopefully the issue is gone. How's it working for Reaper users?
> 
> Cheers!


Since 1.0.5 stability seems to be way better from what I read on VI-C. There are some threads about the sine stability check them out.
I had no problems with Vienna Ensemble Pro since 1.0.3


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## Maestro Hank

OT_Tobias said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> very sorry to hear you are having update issues!
> Please try the following: Delete your Library.json (see https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/333-deleting-your-library-json), then go to wherever you have the intruments installed and look in Orchestral Tools/Downloads. Delete that downloads folder, but NOT the Content folder.
> Then re-import all existing instruments into SINE as described at https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/303-how-to-use-the-library-view ("Add existing Collections/Instruments") by clicking on +Collection in the top right of the Library. That will import the existing content.
> Then please try updating again.
> 
> best
> 
> Tobias


OK, is it just my system or is this a common problem? At this rate it is going to take a week or more to download all the instruments in Junkie XL Brass. My download speed is 400+mbps, so I should be good. However, after two full days, I only have 2 of the 15 instruments installed. Please advise. This is killing my productivity this week.


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## jbuhler

Maestro Hank said:


> OK, is it just my system or is this a common problem? At this rate it is going to take a week or more to download all the instruments in Junkie XL Brass. My download speed is 400+mbps, so I should be good. However, after two full days, I only have 2 of the 15 instruments installed. Please advise. This is killing my productivity this week.


Even the largest OT libraries only take me several hours to download. Have you checked your download speeds? Maybe your modem or router needs to be reset.


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## studioj

Sine downloads have been hit or miss for me. The last several have been decent but several before that were a mess like you’re describing. Pretty much every other downloader in extistence is more stable / consistent in my experience and I’m on gigabit fiber. At times I found hitting the little X next to the instrument that should “stop” the download I think, actually unstuck it in some way and it sort of kicked the whole download back into gear. But again recent downloads have been more predictable so I’m hoping they mostly worked out the kinks.


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