# Some recommendations for Shostakovich symphonies for cinematic score reduction?



## Farkle (Jan 11, 2012)

Gahh, I hate using that word, "cinematic"... but at least you all know what I'm talking about.

I'm kicking my orchestration chops up a notch, by score reducing some of my fave pieces, that also have very strong and dramatic orchestration and thematic writing. 

I never really studied Shostakovich in school, so I'm a bit of a neophyte as to what are some of his seminal symphonies to study for strong dramatic and exciting orchestrational techniques, as well as great thematic writing.

Can I pick the crew's brains? Any seminal symphonies to steer me to?

Thanks, everyone!!

Mike


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## Alex Temple (Jan 11, 2012)

If you want to look at bombastic action music, I can't think of a better example than the second movement of his tenth symphony. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZbJOE9zNjw&list=PL3B4B6E052A4434F9&index=5&feature=plpp_video (Here's) a look at Gustavo Dudamel taking it at a breakneck pace. Reducing this whole movement would be a feat though, especially doing it by ear. If you can get your hands on a score though, there's a lot to learn from it. The 4th movement of the same Symphony also has some similar writing.

The 5th Symphony is the most popular, and I think a lot of this is because it has more obvious, in-your-face melodic themes than most of his other symphonies.


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## Farkle (Jan 11, 2012)

Whoa, that is a GREAT movement, Alex, thank you!

Ahh, yes, I forgot about the 5th Symphony. I analyzed the First Movement of Sym. No. 5 Wayyy back in school... forgot all about it. Thanks, Alex!

Back to the 10th, yes, this is really good driving music, that doesn't drive through percussion grooves, but through contrapuntal and ostinato movements... EXACTLY the kind of Shosty I'm looking for. Thanks!

What else we got? 

Mike


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## Alex Temple (Jan 11, 2012)

You might want to check out the second movement of the 6th. It has a lot of that kind of drive but it also has sparser textures, so it would be a good candidate for reduction.


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## cc64 (Jan 11, 2012)

Hey Alex thanks for the Link. Man i am floored by this Youth Symphony!

They look like they're all below drinking age ; ) (18 in Canada)

Best,

Claude


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## vicontrolu (Jan 12, 2012)

mm...would you mind sharing similar symphonies on this topic, but from other composers, not only from Shostakovich? thx


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## tls (Jan 12, 2012)

I listened to the entire thing (the 10th). How can anyone like this? I mean, what is it in this kind of music that interest people? I hear a lot of structure and craft, but so what? This is not art in my ears, it's noise.

This is not meant to be offensive, but I wonder why people find this piece of music valuable. Please elaborate, I'm curious!


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## Ian Dorsch (Jan 12, 2012)

Man, I think it's fantastic. I haven't listened to the rest of the 10th (yet--to be rectified promptly) but that 2nd movement is really thrilling to my ears. In terms of the writing, it's really not too far removed from John Williams' action music, and considerably less dark and dissonant than something like his War of the Worlds soundtrack. I just don't think this is too far out there in the grand scheme of things, and I certainly wouldn't call it noise.


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## Alex Temple (Jan 12, 2012)

tls @ Thu Jan 12 said:


> I listened to the entire thing (the 10th). How can anyone like this? I mean, what is it in this kind of music that interest people? I hear a lot of structure and craft, but so what? This is not art in my ears, it's noise.
> 
> This is not meant to be offensive, but I wonder why people find this piece of music valuable. Please elaborate, I'm curious!



I appreciate the diplomatic way you phrased that question. Shostakovich is not for everyone, and I think being at ease with his particular brand of consonance and dissonance helps. Excluding certain parts in the first movement that to me drag on for way too long, the 10th has an incredible frantic energy that sustains much of the piece. So I guess I enjoy this piece on a simple "I love this, I get a kick out of it" level, not as a sterile study piece that I have to sit through. It's a very exciting piece, and while (as you mentioned) there is a lot of craft and structure that goes into creating that energy, it isn't what I'm paying attention to directly.

Artistic tastes aside, I think anyone wishing to write propulsive orchestral music can learn a lot from this. There are passages in the third and fourth movements where there are seemingly endless crescendos that last for 50-100 bars, and you'd be surprised looking at the score how much more goes into this than just adding more instruments and raising the dynamic.


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## mikebarry (Jan 12, 2012)

The festive overture is a great starting point.


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## Farkle (Jan 12, 2012)

vicontrolu @ Thu Jan 12 said:


> mm...would you mind sharing similar symphonies on this topic, but from other composers, not only from Shostakovich? thx



I don't want to hijack this thread, but I do want to answer your question.

There's an excellent thread that has been going on here at VI-Control, that talks about concert pieces that influence film scores. It'll have TONS of examples that you're looking for.

Here's the link. Enjoy!

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... highlight=


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## rayinstirling (Jan 12, 2012)

tls @ Thu Jan 12 said:


> I listened to the entire thing (the 10th). How can anyone like this? I mean, what is it in this kind of music that interest people? I hear a lot of structure and craft, but so what? This is not art in my ears, it's noise.
> 
> This is not meant to be offensive, but I wonder why people find this piece of music valuable. Please elaborate, I'm curious!



tls,

Without me trying to offend you, I know what noise sounds like and it ain't the performance Alex has highlighted here.


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## dcoscina (Jan 12, 2012)

tls @ Thu Jan 12 said:


> I listened to the entire thing (the 10th). How can anyone like this? I mean, what is it in this kind of music that interest people? I hear a lot of structure and craft, but so what? This is not art in my ears, it's noise.
> 
> This is not meant to be offensive, but I wonder why people find this piece of music valuable. Please elaborate, I'm curious!



I'm going to assume english is not your first language so you didn't articulate yourself as well as you intended, because frankly, your post is offensive. If you said "hey, this isn't for me, why do you guys like it?" it would have been fine. But instead you put it out there as if those who find merit in this work (and there's probably millions of people who do BTW) are somehow wrong or misguided or some such nonsense. If you like any film music since say the '50s, especially action oriented stuff of James Horner in particular, the source of much of his inspiration must go to Shostakovich. Put on the 1st mvmt of his 12th Symphony and hear the wonderful string writing. 

But hey, you're free to like and dislike what you want. Just don't make a flat out value judgement on those who do like Shosty. I've learned a lot from his music. And I enjoy it immensely,.


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## Udo (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't want to hijack this thread, but since it's about Shostakovich .....

What do you think of this performance (10th, mvt 2): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U7ljZhzNsc (www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U7ljZhzNsc)


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## jamwerks (Jan 13, 2012)

Alex Temple @ Wed Jan 11 said:


> If you want to look at bombastic action music, I can't think of a better example than the second movement of his tenth symphony. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZbJOE9zNjw&list=PL3B4B6E052A4434F9&index=5&feature=plpp_video (Here's) a look at Gustavo Dudamel taking it at a breakneck pace. Reducing this whole movement would be a feat though, especially doing it by ear. If you can get your hands on a score though, there's a lot to learn from it. The 4th movement of the same Symphony also has some similar writing.
> 
> The 5th Symphony is the most popular, and I think a lot of this is because it has more obvious, in-your-face melodic themes than most of his other symphonies.



Yeah the 5th and 10th symphonies are fantastic :!:


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## Farkle (Jan 13, 2012)

mikebarry @ Thu Jan 12 said:


> The festive overture is a great starting point.



Just listened to it on Spotify, it's a great piece to reduce and study. Thanks, Mike B!

Oh, and... just to roil the pot.... GO FLYERS! We're within 2 points of you, baby... watch out!

Mike


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## George Caplan (Jan 14, 2012)

the orchestra played this at a ball i went to sometime ago and the dancing round the ballroom was terrific. round and round.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmCnQDUSO4I


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## tls (Jan 15, 2012)

I read my post again, and I agree. It sounds a bit offensive. My apologies. It was not my intention to bash anybody's taste. However, I guess my style of writing was a consequence of listening to the piece. I felt rather annoyed listening to it, thus it was influencing how I wrote my post.

That said, it was interesting reading about why you guys like it. Thanks Temple for responding to my question in a good manner.

It is possible that James Horner has been inspired by the 12th symphony. I was referring exclusively to what I heard from the 10th. That's also the only piece of music I was talking about.


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## PhJ (Jan 15, 2012)

tls @ Sun Jan 15 said:


> I read my post again, and I agree. It sounds a bit offensive. My apologies. It was not my intention to bash anybody's taste. However, I guess my style of writing was a consequence of listening to the piece. I felt rather annoyed listening to it, thus it was influencing how I wrote my post.



just to put the whole thing in context, what symphonies do you actually enjoy ?


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## Jaap (Jan 22, 2012)

Check out also the 11th symphony. It is not one of his most famous, but it has some great writing and sound (I think the string sound of the first part inspired some of the guys of Project Sam for some patches in Symphobia 2  ). The second movement has some great moments and building up. 

I haven't found a good youtube link, but if you are on spotify as you mentioned. Search for Bernard Haitink conducting all the Shostakovich symphonies. Excellent recordings!


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