# Spitfire Audio : Abbey Road 1 Modular Orchestra - Speculation Thread.



## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

Hi,

As we look forward to the release of *Spitfire Audio AR-1 Modular Orchestra*. I thought this will be a useful thread to voice our speculations, requests, what we want to have included, ...etc. , and hopefully this will also be a useful thread, and resource for Spitfire Audio development.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Evans (Aug 9, 2021)

Reminder: there's already a lot of recorded content from AR1:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...estral-foundations.99671/page-36#post-4664567

As of October 2020, per Christian:


> we've recorded the foundation library along with 9 additional selections already. Abbey 2 is fully recorded and we have just finished our first chapter of the modular library.


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## Giovanni dall Camera (Aug 9, 2021)

I am not sure I will be able to take that suspense any longer ... WHEN??? ARGHHH!!! STILL NO SFAR1MO!!!


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

As per Christian's Post, they had finished the first chapter of the Modular AR-1 Library back in Oct. 2020. I'm very excited about seeing them release at least one of the AR-1 Orchestral Modules this year.


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

I think this thread can be a very good, and valuable resource for Spirfire Audio Development, by reading what we wish to see in AR-1 Modular. Your posts, and comments will surely make a difference. I hope


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## jbuhler (Aug 9, 2021)

Do we know what Abbey 2 is yet. Are those the pianos? Anything else? In any case from that inventory, they've released 3 of the foundation packs, and the two pianos (assuming that is the Abbey 2 reference).

This will give @muziksculp a sad, but I really don't see the modular being released before the expansion packs for AROOF. And at the rate they have been releasing those, they won't be done with that until 2022 either.


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Do we know what Abbey 2 is yet. Are those the pianos? Anything else? In any case from that inventory, they've released 3 of the foundation packs, and the two pianos (assuming that is the Abbey 2 reference).
> 
> This will give @muziksculp a sad, but I really don't see the modular being released before the expansion packs for AROOF. And at the rate they have been releasing those, they won't be done with that until 2022 either.


So, You couldn't help being a Debbie Downer.


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## jbuhler (Aug 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> So, You couldn't help being a Debbie Downer.


On the bright side, it wouldn't surprise me if SF's goal is to have all the expansions out the door by the end of the year so they can offer some sort of bundle on the set as part of the end of year sale.


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> On the bright side, it wouldn't surprise me if SF's goal is to have all the expansions out the door by the end of the year so they can offer some sort of bundle on the set as part of the end of year sale.


Now that makes a lot of sense to me.

I surely would prefer to buy AR-1 Modular Orchestra all at once, and at a nice intro discount price, rather than buy them one module at a time.

i.e. Strings, ..then wait for Brass to be released, ..etc. ... Meaning I will still not have a cohesive AR-1 Modular Orchestra to work with if I purchased the AR-1 Strings Module.

The way they released BBCSO Pro made a lot of sense, a full orchestra, with a cohesive sound released with an Intro discount. That's what I would like to see happen with AR-1 Modular Orch. They can surely add more to it as it matures. i.e. Sordino Strings, Brass, ..etc. etc.


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## jbuhler (Aug 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Now that makes a lot of sense to me.
> 
> I surely would prefer to buy AR-1 Modular Orchestra all at once, and at a nice intro discount price, rather than buy them one module at a time.
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about the modular orchestra here, I'm talking about the 9 foundation expansions. The plan for the modular library is almost certainly release it in modules over the span of a year or so. Otherwise they would not have pre-announced it the way they did. At least that's my take from all these years of being a SF watcher. If they were going to drop the whole thing in one fell swoop we would not have heard anything about it until the first teaser dropped.

Just to keep the downer vibe going...


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## dcoscina (Aug 9, 2021)

All I know is they better include a Jerry Goldsmith preset. I want to be able to enter C, E, G and maybe a B if I feel adventurous and then hit a dial with options such as POTA, ST:TMP, First Blood, Poltergeist, ALIEN, Cap1, and for the engine to spit out equally innovative music at my behest. And while they are at it, include both Arthur Morton and Alexander Courage orchestration presets.


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## jbuhler (Aug 9, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> All I know is they better include a Jerry Goldsmith preset. I want to be able to enter C, E, G and maybe a B if I feel adventurous and then hit a dial with options such as POTA, ST:TMP, First Blood, Poltergeist, ALIEN, Cap1, and for the engine to spit out equally innovative music at my behest. And while they are at it, include both Arthur Morton and Alexander Courage orchestration presets.


I thought folks were expecting AR modular would have John Williams presets since everything using it sounds like an unused cue from Raiders of the Lost Ark.


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## styledelk (Aug 9, 2021)

The whole library is just going to be AR1 run through Christian's modular synthesizer rig, delivered in their bespoke eDNA interface. Done. Abbey Road Modular Orchestra.


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## jbuhler (Aug 9, 2021)

styledelk said:


> The whole library is just going to be AR1 run through Christian's modular synthesizer rig, delivered in their bespoke eDNA interface. Done. Abbey Road Modular Orchestra.


Bingo!


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

Here are a few things that make a big difference for me.

* Lots of Short articulations, please ! Don't skip the Staccatos. They are an essential bowing technique. I know you have an obsession with Flautandos, but they are not as frquently used as Stacc. when it comes to strings.

* Any additional controls to accent the start of the Short articulations, or give them more variety dynamically via lots of dynamic layer, or other methods, i.e. CC# control.

* Performance Legatos that are inspiring to use, similar, or even better than what has been offered in the BBCSO Pro, and SCS, SSS. ..etc.

* Great sounding String Legatos, with the option of a Molto-Vibrato Passionate/Romantic style legato transitions.

* Strings Vibrato control, as much as possible. i.e. at least a Vibrato crossfade, the Vibrato should sound very natural, and agile/flexible to adapt to many styles of music.

* A Full Ensemble Strings patch with some of the standard articulations would be very useful to have. 

* Brass that's recorded at ppp up to fff .

* Woodwinds with awesome timbre, across all dynamics. And Vibrato Control.

I will add more to this as I think of other details.


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## dcoscina (Aug 9, 2021)

in all seriousness, and I know I'm hoping for a lot here, I would love nothing but to rely only on AR Modular for all my film scoring needs. I'm kinda sick and tired of mixing and matching various libraries...


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> in all seriousness, and I know I'm hoping for a lot here, I would love nothing but to rely only on AR Modular for all my film scoring needs. I'm kinda sick and tired of mixing and matching various libraries...


It's not too far fetched that AR-1 Mod. can do that for you. 

But I really think there will always be something that one library can not do perfectly as you want, hence you might need the assistance of other libraries. But that all depends on what you write, and need. 

I'm currently using the BBCSO Pro as my main, go-to Orchestral library, and just complementing it on an as needed basis with a variety of other libraries. This has been a huge workflow improvement for me, and my Template size is quite easy to work with, and get productive right away.


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## Quanah (Aug 9, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Do we know what Abbey 2 is yet. Are those the pianos? Anything else? In any case from that inventory, they've released 3 of the foundation packs, and the two pianos (assuming that is the Abbey 2 reference).


The Quintet recorded in Studio 2, that they subtly "mic dropped" at the end of this announcement video, perhaps? ... well, the string quintet being all that they showed us anyway. No reason not expect it to be a range of smaller ensemble releases recorded in there, too. Don't know, but definitely eager to see what they bring us with this quintet!


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## Laurin Lenschow (Aug 9, 2021)

So far they have been releasing new expansions for AROOF every three months (the next one should be released this month). There still are six expansions left, so if they keep relasing them one or two at a time, this is going to take another 9-15 months (not 18 because there will only be 5 ones left after the month that already begun). 
They _might _release the first chapter of the modular orchestra before they are finished with the expansions, but only if all AROOF expansions with similar content are already out, because otherwise those would be redundant for everyone who got the first major module. Therefore my guess is that they are going to release _at least _another four expansions before the first modular library. This makes a release in 2021 rather unlikely. 
2022 then. But when? I am under the impression that all major devs place their most exciting releases about 2-8 weeks prior to black friday in order sell them while the composer community still has money. Therefore a release in fall 2022 seems likely - October perhaps?


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

Hopefully AROOF expansion releases are not going to interrupt the development of AR-1 Modular Orch.

Honestly, I care less about AROOF expansions, they can even release most of them next year, and focus on getting AR-1 Modular out this year.


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> They _might _release the first chapter of the modular orchestra before they are finished with the expansions


Yes, that's what I'm hoping they will do, or maybe more than one chapter.


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## jbuhler (Aug 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully AROOF expansion releases are not going to interrupt the development of AR-1 Modular Orch.
> 
> Honestly, I care less about AROOF expansions, they can even release most of them next year, and focus on getting AR-1 Modular out this year.


We know that, but they aren't releasing products for you alone, and your thinking about what's in your best interest makes you often miss rather obvious motivations for why companies are doing other things.

I mean, you don't have to like that, and I applaud when you hold companies' feet to the fire on getting things done in a timely fashion, but sometimes it can be helpful to try to see other perspectives.

SF has lots of employees now and all of them working on the same project would be completely unwieldy, so it's good that they are working on several things at once. It's also a way for them to hedge risk by offering a range of products, so they are more likely to stay in business long term. I also think it's interesting that Christian was clearly driving the Solstice project the past couple of years, because it means he likely is not driving the Abbey Road project, which is therefore likely being overseen by Paul.


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> We know that, but they aren't releasing products for you alone, and your thinking about what's in your best interest makes you often miss rather obvious motivations for why companies are doing other things.
> 
> I mean, you don't have to like that, and I applaud when you hold companies' feet to the fire on getting things done in a timely fashion, but sometimes it can be helpful to try to see other perspectives.
> 
> SF has lots of employees now and all of them working on the same project would be completely unwieldy, so it's good that they are working on several things at once. It's also a way for them to hedge risk by offering a range of products, so they are more likely to stay in business long term. I also think it's interesting that Christian was clearly driving the Solstice project the past couple of years, because it means he likely is not driving the Abbey Road project, which is therefore likely being overseen by Paul.


Well... I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who is more eager to see AR-1 Modular released rather than AROOF Expansions. So I don't think it is fair for you to make me look like I'm being selfish, of ignoring the fact that others might have differing needs to which libraries SA release before others. 

If SA has a sufficient number of employees, that can handle developing multiple projects in parallel, then that means they are able to handle multiple projects without one project complicating things for the other. i.e. delaying it.


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## jbuhler (Aug 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Well... I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who is more eager to see AR-1 Modular released rather than AROOF Expansions. So I don't think it is fair for you to make me look like I'm being selfish, of ignoring the fact that others might have differing needs to which libraries SA release before others.
> 
> If SA has a sufficient number of employees, that can handle developing multiple projects in parallel, then that means they are able to handle multiple projects without one project complicating things for the other. i.e. delaying it.


I mean, you've kind of appointed yourself into the role of speaker of the impatient, so there's that. But what's your evidence that anything about the AR-1 project is delayed? They haven't announced a release schedule—and I don't really expect them to—so it's only delayed in your mind. This is exactly what I'm talking about. (Even the string legato expansion of AROOF wasn't officially delayed, it just never appeared despite some clear signs it was supposed to be released with Wondrous Flutes.) 

If you watched Christian's video on Solstice, you'll see that that project took two years to bring to fruition and it wasn't nearly as complicated as the AR1 project. Moreover throwing more people at a large complicated project often makes matters worse because it introduces further complications.


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> But what's your evidence that anything about the AR-1 project is delayed? They haven't announced a release schedule—and I don't really expect them to—so it's only delayed in your mind. This is exactly what I'm talking about. (Even the string legato expansion of AROOF wasn't officially delayed, it just never appeared despite some clear signs it was supposed to be released with Wondrous Flutes.)


I'm with you on this. I'm not saying it is delayed, since they haven't announced a release date, and I doubt they will do that. They will just post a teaser all of a sudden, and surprise us. Could be any day. It's all under their control. 

I just hope they can manage developing all these libraries, while maintaing a very high-standard of QA, and be able to release some of both these library lines (AR1-Mod, and AROOF Exps) this year.

All we can do is wait, speculate, provide some feedback that could be helpful to Spitfire Audio via posting on this thread, hopefully they will be eager to read our ideas, requests, ..etc.


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## Bman70 (Aug 9, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> in all seriousness, and I know I'm hoping for a lot here, I would love nothing but to rely only on AR Modular for all my film scoring needs. I'm kinda sick and tired of mixing and matching various libraries...


And... it's started lol. Rumors and hopes for "THE library to end all libraries." Has _any _library ever been "that" library? No, and I expect that track record will continue. It's just the nature of libraries.

Or, perhaps it's the nature of the modern market, with such an abundance to compare to that it's unlikely any single library will top all of them in all ways. Back in the early days when there were limited libraries, you could have be-alls like HWO, but that was due to people working with its limitations rather than an innate flawlessness. 

A slightly horrifying thought, though... what if it's not in companies' best interest to produce a be-all end-all library? This reminds me of Sony cameras, where they keep releasing models that have what everyone asked for, but remove some other feature everyone loved. So you end up needing 5 cameras to have all the stuff.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I just hope they can manage developing all these libraries, while maintaing a very high-standard of QA


Meanwhile, in reality… 

I kid. Please don’t collectively do a murder on me.


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## styledelk (Aug 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I just hope they can manage developing all these libraries, while maintaing a very high-standard of QA, and be able to release some of both these library lines (AR1-Mod, and AROOF Exps) this year.


They can. Along with the three other libraries we don’t even know about in the next few months. And the three more multi year projects. Phases, alternating teams, software engineering, audio engineering, product management. They’ll be fine.
Of course, if they would just do a subscription service it could be predictable.


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## dcoscina (Aug 9, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> And... it's started lol. Rumors and hopes for "THE library to end all libraries." Has _any _library ever been "that" library? No, and I expect that track record will continue. It's just the nature of libraries.
> 
> Or, perhaps it's the nature of the modern market, with such an abundance to compare to that it's unlikely any single library will top all of them in all ways. Back in the early days when there were limited libraries, you could have be-alls like HWO, but that was due to people working with its limitations rather than an innate flawlessness.
> 
> A slightly horrifying thought, though... what if it's not in companies' best interest to produce a be-all end-all library? This reminds me of Sony cameras, where they keep releasing models that have what everyone asked for, but remove some other feature everyone loved. So you end up needing 5 cameras to have all the stuff.


I know it's a pipe dream but there are a few folks out there that stick with a limited palette that seem to write pretty convincing stuff. Andy Blaney comes to mind. Guy Bacos does some great VSL demos. I limited myself to BBCSO earlier this summer with my Star Trek retro stuff and found it up to the task. It's not impossible but I suppose for working media composers it's a bit much to ask.


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## Toecutter (Aug 9, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> This will give @muziksculp a sad, but I really don't see the modular being released before the expansion packs for AROOF. And at the rate they have been releasing those, they won't be done with that until 2022 either.


Yep don't count with it before late 2022, wouldn't be surprised if it was a 2023 release. This is one product they don't want to screw up, gotta make it count! I say take your time SF


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## dzilizzi (Aug 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully AROOF expansion releases are not going to interrupt the development of AR-1 Modular Orch.
> 
> Honestly, I care less about AROOF expansions, they can even release most of them next year, and focus on getting AR-1 Modular out this year.


I really think AROOF is made more for Christian and others like him, so I can see they might be higher on the priority.


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## emilio_n (Aug 9, 2021)

You need to see this from a marketing perspective. I don't know the status of the recordings for the modular AR library but I am sure that they will exprime the AROOF library and add-ons as much they can. 
I think most of the people here wants the modular AR1 but while waiting a lot of us will want to taste the Abbey Road sound even with a no very complete ensemble library. The add-ons bring nice colours to our palette and are quoted at a very attractive price for the amount of money we usually spend.

When they release the modular AR1, the prices will be higher for sure and everybody will invest (Or save money) for this and leave the AROOF.

Aside from the time needed for the modular library, the Covid restrictions and the individual needs of each one, Spitfire are genius on Marketing and how to make us buy the things in the order they want.


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## muziksculp (Aug 9, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> Spitfire are genius on Marketing and how to make us buy the things in the order they want.


They will have to try very hard to sell me another AROOF expansion. 

I'm all for AR-1 Modular Orchestra. I will patiently wait for it to be released.


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## emilio_n (Aug 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> They will have to try very hard to sell me another AROOF expansion.
> 
> I'm all for AR-1 Modular Orchestra. I will patiently wait for it to be released.


Never say never. If I had followed my head more than my GAS, I would have half the libraries and twice the money. :-D


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## holywilly (Aug 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> They will have to try very hard to sell me another AROOF expansion.
> 
> I'm all for AR-1 Modular Orchestra. I will patiently wait for it to be released.


The whole AR-1 Modular Orchestra and AROOF expansions theories still make me feel confused. 
Are those three expansions are part of the Modular Orchestra or what? and what exactly is Abbey Road 2? Something recorded in Abbey Road studio 2?

It will be nice if Spitfire show us the road map of the whole Abbey Road concept.


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## emilio_n (Aug 9, 2021)

holywilly said:


> The whole AR-1 Modular Orchestra and AROOF expansions theories still make me feel confused.
> Are those three expansions are part of the Modular Orchestra or what? and what exactly is Abbey Road 2? Something recorded in Abbey Road studio 2?
> 
> It will be nice if Spitfire show us the road map of the whole Abbey Road concept.


The expansions are not part of the modular thing. Expansions are just some add-ons to make specific tasks that you can't do directly with AROOF (Or at least helps you to achieve the sound of some famous scores recorded on Abbey Road. 

The modular thing is another project for a full orchestra with all the sections. So it is another thing, but I think will play quite nice together, so they are not redundant. 

Abbey Road 2 will be other recordings, as you said, recorded on Studio 2. By the moment, I think they released a couple of Original pianos recorded there.


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## holywilly (Aug 10, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> The expansions are not part of the modular thing. Expansions are just some add-ons to make specific tasks that you can't do directly with AROOF (Or at least helps you to achieve the sound of some famous scores recorded on Abbey Road.
> 
> The modular thing is another project for a full orchestra with all the sections. So it is another thing, but I think will play quite nice together, so they are not redundant.
> 
> Abbey Road 2 will be other recordings, as you said, recorded on Studio 2. By the moment, I think they released a couple of Original pianos recorded there.


Thanks! It's more clear after re-watching the Abbey Road ONE announcement video regarding the Abbey Road ONE Modular Orchestra. Now I'm getting very excited about the Modular Orchestra, the most detailed orchestral sample library that Spitfire ever created.


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## FireGS (Aug 10, 2021)

I'll be able to look back in a year and say, "I posted on page 2 of the HOOPUS-overtaking monster thread about AR1MO".

See ya'll on page 1'000.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 10, 2021)

FireGS said:


> I'll be able to look back in a year and say, "I posted on page 2 of the HOOPUS-overtaking monster thread about AR1MO".
> 
> See ya'll on page 1'000.


Maybe snapshot this, create an NFT and auction it off? I mean… this is a seminal thing…


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## muk (Aug 10, 2021)

For whatever it's worth, lets throw in the timetable of the Spitfire Symphonic Series here.

Leaving aside the Bespoke Strings which came before.

Sable Volume 1 was released early 2013. Volume 3 in July 2013.

Mural Volume 1: January 2014
Mural Volume 3: August 2015

Symphonic Brass: September 2016

Symphonic Woodwinds: December 2016

Overall it took Spitfire Audio close to four years to release their Symphonic line in its first iteration.

Of course the company has changed and is much larger than it was then. Still, creating a full range line of orchestral samples is a huge task that takes time. And not only the number of staff increased, but also the number of product releases that are not part of this particular project.

Maybe the VSL Synchron Line is another point for comparison. I am just guessing, but maybe VSL and Spitfire Audio are comparable in size, and the product lines are comparable in scale.

Synchron Percussion 1 was release in April 2017. After two symphonic strings and one chamber strings libraries (and countless pianos), the last release has been Synchron Brass in July 2021. Woodwinds still to go. So we are in the region of more than four years here too.

Corona probably has slowed progress. Still, taking that into account, I think it is probably safe to assume that we are looking at a multi years project here. Around four years seems to be a bit of a benchmark. All of this is just speculation though.


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## AllanH (Aug 10, 2021)

What I miss the most are "plain" legato patches - what Spitfire typically calls legato or extended legato. Unless they break AR into all the instrument sections, I'd like legato for at least High and Low Strings, Horns and trumpets.


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## yiph2 (Aug 10, 2021)

AllanH said:


> What I miss the most are "plain" legato patches - what Spitfire typically calls legato or extended legato. Unless they break AR into all the instrument sections, I'd like legato for at least High and Low Strings, Horns and trumpets.


There is already legato for the Low Strings in the expansions


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## jbuhler (Aug 10, 2021)

muk said:


> For whatever it's worth, lets throw in the timetable of the Spitfire Symphonic Series here.
> 
> Leaving aside the Bespoke Strings which came before.
> 
> ...


The timing of the libraries is a bit different than described. The brass and woodwinds had BML volumes. Trumpets, for instance, came out in 2014, I think. 2016 is when they converted everything to SSO by consolidating BML volumes into SSS, SSB, and SSS. SCS was consolidated from Sable around the same time. The basic point that it takes a long time to do this stands, though.


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## muk (Aug 10, 2021)

Thanks for the correction @jbuhler! In that case it took less than four years for the entire Symphonic range. That's quite amazing. But yes, two or three years is probably a more realistic time-frame than just one year.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 10, 2021)

I'm waiting to see what the AROOF/expansions bundle price before I think about any more expansions. But then, I am not a media composer. 

And I may wait for the completed AR Mod library - maybe ARMO - Abbey Road Modular Orchestra? Got to get those acronyms in as quick as possible in order to confuse the heck out of anyone reading this thread in 10 years...... The bundle prices tend to be better, especially on sale.


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## jbuhler (Aug 10, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm waiting to see what the AROOF/expansions bundle price before I think about any more expansions. But then, I am not a media composer.
> 
> And I may wait for the completed AR Mod library - maybe ARMO - Abbey Road Modular Orchestra? Got to get those acronyms in as quick as possible in order to confuse the heck out of anyone reading this thread in 10 years...... The bundle prices tend to be better, especially on sale.


I’ve been a bit surprised that they haven’t discounted the expansions even with intro pricing. Makes me wonder if there will be a bundle (what’s SF without bundles?). It also makes me wonder about the pricing scheme for the AR modules and whether we can expect regular discounts on them.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 10, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I’ve been a bit surprised that they haven’t discounted the expansions even with intro pricing. Makes me wonder if there will be a bundle (what’s SF without bundles?). It also makes me wonder about the pricing scheme for the AR modules and whether we can expect regular discounts on them.


They are still pretty new, so we will have to see what happens during the Christmas sale. I can see them being like the Originals series with the price on the individual sections, but giving a discount when buying the bundle just makes sense.


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## holywilly (Aug 10, 2021)

Spitfire has sampled large strings sections (16, 14, 12, 10, 8) through out the journey as a sample developer, first at AIR studio, then Maida Vale Studios, now Abbey Road Studio. I’m interested to see how’s the flautando sound in Abbey Road.


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## Composer 2021 (Aug 11, 2021)

They can take as long as they need to release the modular libraries. My wallet will thank them.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 11, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> They can take as long as they need to release the modular libraries. My wallet will thank them.


If it's going to be $3000, I will also need to save up......


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## muziksculp (Aug 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> If it's going to be $3000, I will also need to save up......


Yup, although it might cost less, but that also means not spending it on AROOF expansions.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 11, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Yup, although it might cost less, but that also means not spending it on AROOF expansions.


I technically haven't bought any extensions. I took advantage of the pre-sale and got the Sparkling Woodwinds for free.


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## muziksculp (Sep 16, 2021)

Could Abbey Road 2 "String Quintet" be coming soon ?


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## Loerpert (Sep 27, 2021)

Good legato and many dynamic layers is all I wish for.


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## Alchemedia (Sep 27, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Could Abbey Road 2 "String Quintet" be coming soon ?


Where do they all come from?


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## doctoremmet (Sep 27, 2021)

They look so lonely.


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## Alex Fraser (Sep 28, 2021)

Noice. A speculation thread. 👍

I'm sort of already going on the assumption that the library will be highly detailed and sound great.

Of most interest to me is where in the market it'll be placed, at what price point etc.
Also, I'm wondering how much SF will "divvy" up the offerings and how many editions they'll be.
Rather than just three libraries (strings, brass, winds) - might this be split into further modules, as discussed already above? That the collection is already being described as "modular" by Spitfire would imply this is going to be a multi-part release.

(Doing it this way will enable SF to shunt the price higher as we won't be noticing if we buy in bits. )

Will also be interesting to see how the VIC community receives it. My guess is that we'll be split in two: The grizzly hands who remember how much this stuff can cost and those who've been trained to expect an entire orchestra for much less.

Finally thought: I hope SF do a new, dedicated percussion section at AR. They haven't really tackled this since JB percussion. The studio series looks doomed to go forever without percussion..


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## dzilizzi (Sep 28, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> Noice. A speculation thread. 👍
> 
> I'm sort of already going on the assumption that the library will be highly detailed and sound great.
> 
> ...


I think it might depend on how much Pacific costs and how good they are comparatively. I hear Pacific may be a little pricey, but Jasper generally does a great job, at least on the limited scope libraries he has done so far.


----------



## RogiervG (Sep 28, 2021)

I hope (a bit against the reputation of SA's programming/audio inconsistencies in libraries), for a very consistent, very well programmed and ofcourse very flexible/playable orchestra, that can be bought instrument for instrument, section for section and as a whole (bundle). Pricing not too high not too low (although i woudn't say no to lower pricing compared to competitors, haha). Oh an you can choose your mics too (per instrument, section buying, or mic packs for the bundle). 
Also i still hope they also do a kontakt version besides their SA player. Freedom of choice, workflow.
Oh and lots and lots of instruments, including niche ones or specially tuned/prepaired for certain time era's music.
And do add a piano! (looking at you BBC SO) 
maybe a choir too? (many movie scores recorded there feature one)

Chris and Paul and all the experts at Spitfire Audio make it happen  (i trust in you all)


----------



## Alex Fraser (Sep 28, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> I hope (a bit against the reputation of SA's programming/audio inconsistencies in libraries), for a very consistent, very well programmed and ofcourse very flexible/playable orchestra, that can be bought instrument for instrument, section for section and as a whole (bundle). Pricing not too high not too low (although i woudn't say no to lower pricing compared to competitors, haha). Oh an you can choose your mics too (per instrument, section buying, or mic packs for the bundle).
> Also i still hope they also do a kontakt version besides their SA player. Freedom of choice, workflow.
> Oh and lots and lots of instruments, including niche ones or specially tuned/prepaired for certain time era's music.
> And do add a piano! (looking at you BBC SO)
> ...


If we’re talking slicing and dicing a modular product, then I’m guessing SF will split the line using instruments as a differentiator, rather than mix signals or articulations. At least for any first “pro” version.

But who knows? Maybe they’ll be “core” and extended articulation versions of each instrument. 

But I don’t think they’ll split it all up so much you need a matrix to understand the product line. Has to be a tradeoff between customer choice and the effort to develop and support it all.

SF player only is a dead cert I think.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 5, 2021)

Hi,

Re-Visiting this topic now that we are in November. 

I have a feeling that Spitfire Audio is working like a colony of ants in their underground world, to get possibly one of the AR-1 Modular Orchestral libraries out before the end of this year. 

I have noticed they are just keep us busy with misc. stuff, but nothing really exciting, and not much happening. There must be a good reason for that, and I think this is a good sign that they are super busy trying to develop their next big orchestral library, AR-1 Modular Orch. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## holywilly (Nov 5, 2021)

Fingers crossed for consistency across all modular sections.


----------



## Composer 2021 (Nov 5, 2021)

They better hurry up and announce it so I don't spend this year's BF budget on other stuff. STONKS!


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 5, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> They better hurry up and announce it so I don't spend this year's BF budget on other stuff. STONKS!


Good Luck with that.


----------



## Axelorox (Nov 27, 2021)

Any thoughts on if a purchase of Foundations would count towards future purchase of a modular library? Like how purchase price of the standard Studio Orchestra or Symphony Orchestra pack is deducted if upgrading to the Pro version of those.


----------



## QuiteAlright (Nov 27, 2021)

Axelorox said:


> Any thoughts on if a purchase of Foundations would count towards future purchase of a modular library? Like how purchase price of the standard Studio Orchestra or Symphony Orchestra pack is deducted if upgrading to the Pro version of those.


The new releases will build on top of the foundations, so presumably the modularity here means you don't need a discount. Although that's just speculation I suppose.


----------



## Trash Panda (Nov 27, 2021)

Axelorox said:


> Any thoughts on if a purchase of Foundations would count towards future purchase of a modular library? Like how purchase price of the standard Studio Orchestra or Symphony Orchestra pack is deducted if upgrading to the Pro version of those.


Never buy anything based on future promises/speculations.


----------



## mybadmemory (Nov 27, 2021)

Do we really know that modular will actually mean separate libraries for each section in this case?

Couldn’t is just as well mean a single library but focusing on sections and soloists, rather than ensembles like AROOF? AROOF being the Albion and the modular being the BBC?


----------



## Gerbil (Nov 28, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Fingers crossed for consistency across all modular sections.


The add-ons are very good with some nice legato programming. I fear for my wallet.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Nov 28, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> Do we really know that modular will actually mean separate libraries for each section in this case?
> 
> Couldn’t is just as well mean a single library but focusing on sections and soloists, rather than ensembles like AROOF? AROOF being the Albion and the modular being the BBC?


Mayybee. It's a logical assumption to make.

I took "modular" to mean all the voices broken out into separate products. Spitfire's previous British (Modular) Library stuff was split into several volumes, even more so than just Strings, Brass Woods etc.

My guess would be
Foundations = "Albion" style Abbey Road.
Selections = Specific scoring combinations, recorded in situ.
Modular = "Traditional" orchestra libraries over multiple volumes.

I guess it depends on how long term the project is. I'd like to think it's a hyper detailed orchestra, spread over several volumes and parts by necessity. Strings, Brass, Woods, Perc, Trailer Perc, Piano..everything. I mean, where can Spitfire go beyond Abbey Road? Might as well long it out and go to town on it.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Nov 28, 2021)

Axelorox said:


> Any thoughts on if a purchase of Foundations would count towards future purchase of a modular library? Like how purchase price of the standard Studio Orchestra or Symphony Orchestra pack is deducted if upgrading to the Pro version of those.


I've no idea. There might be?
I'd imagine at some point (in 2028) they'll be an eye watering "Abbey Road Collection" where previous purchases will be taken into account.


----------



## gst98 (Nov 28, 2021)

I did wonder about this. Are they gonna go back and re-record the same bass drum hits, same snare ensembles, but with more articulations, or did we get select parts of material that's already been recorded? The fact that the timp has limited range makes me think they will actually re-record the same things twice.


----------



## Axelorox (Nov 28, 2021)

gst98 said:


> I did wonder about this. Are they gonna go back and re-record the same bass drum hits, same snare ensembles, but with more articulations, or did we get select parts of material that's already been recorded? The fact that the timp has limited range makes me think they will actually re-record the same things twice.


What's wrong with the timpanis in AROOF? I was thinking of getting it while it's on sale in part because the percussion available would cover most of what I would normally use for percussion


----------



## gst98 (Nov 28, 2021)

Axelorox said:


> What's wrong with the timpanis in AROOF? I was thinking of getting it while it's on sale in part because the percussion available would cover most of what I would normally use for percussion


nothing, just that it only covers 1.5 octaves, and you'd expect the eventual full AR perc lib to have more than that. 

I was just speculating that if they had already recorded the full range it's unlikely they would give us the hits, but also leave out the full range. For that reason I think they'll completely re-record for the full lib.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 28, 2021)

I'm expecting AR-1 Modular Orchestra to be a similar modular release to what they did for the Symphonic line. 

AR-1 Strings
AR-1 Woodwinds
AR-1 Brass
AR-1 Percussion


----------



## gst98 (Nov 28, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I'm expecting AR-1 Modular Orchestra to be a similar modular release to what they did for the Symphonic line.
> 
> AR-1 Strings
> AR-1 Woodwinds
> ...


Yeah I think those 4 are a given, but I wonder whether they'll do AR version of chamber sizes, epic perc etc...


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 28, 2021)

gst98 said:


> Yeah I think those 4 are a given, but I wonder whether they'll do AR version of chamber sizes, epic perc etc...


They might, but not before they have the AR-1 Modular Sections or the Orchestra completed. At least that would make more sense to me.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 28, 2021)

I wouldn't be surprised if Spitfire Audio begins teasing us with some AR-1 Modular Orch. videos towards Christmas/last week of Dec.


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 28, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I'm expecting AR-1 Modular Orchestra to be a similar modular release to what they did for the Symphonic line.
> 
> AR-1 Strings
> AR-1 Woodwinds
> ...


They might go this way, maybe with a chamber and a symphonic strings like SCS and SSS. But I could see it broken out similarly to the original BML, with sections like flutes, high reeds, low winds, etc. That would allow them to bring libraries out more quickly and at a lower price for each library, though collectively I still think the price will be rather more than the full Berlin series (Mains plus additional instruments).


----------



## lettucehat (Nov 28, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if Spitfire Audio begins teasing us with some AR-1 Modular Orch. videos towards Christmas/last week of Dec.


Is that based on any info about their progress making the library? I could really use a heads up before this Berlin sale ends but obviously that's really soon.


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 28, 2021)

lettucehat said:


> Is that based on any info about their progress making the library? I could really use a heads up before this Berlin sale ends but obviously that's really soon.


Given SF still has half the promised expansions for AROOF to release I’d be shocked if any of the modular orchestra is released before summer 2023 and I’m guessing they are shooting for fall 2022 for the first release.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 28, 2021)

lettucehat said:


> Is that based on any info about their progress making the library? I could really use a heads up before this Berlin sale ends but obviously that's really soon.


No, It's pure speculation, and wishful thoughts.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 28, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Given SF still has half the promised expansions for AROOF to release I’d be shocked if any of the modular orchestra is released before summer 2023 and I’m guessing they are shooting for fall 2022 for the first release.


I don't know how serious I would take their promise about AROOF expansions, and honestly, I don't care about them.


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 28, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I don't know how serious I would take their promise about AROOF expansions, and honestly, I don't care about them.


You don’t care about it but it’s part of the AR modular development if you believe what Christian and Paul said when they announced AR. 

I believe they are having issues with high string legato and that’s why the expansions haven’t come out as quickly as expected. If that is indeed the case we’re likely to see the modular orchestra come out even later.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2021)

Something exciting, and it's a Major Release ! coming soon from Spitfire Audio and Abbey Road-1 Studios, and I'm quite sure it's NOT an AR-1 Foundation Expansion. 



"spitfireaudio​Some of the world’s most legendary artists have walked through these iconic doors, and now they are opening for you one more time. *Stay tuned for our next major release with @abbeyroadstudios coming soon.*"


----------



## becolossal (Dec 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I don't know how serious I would take their promise about AROOF expansions, and honestly, I don't care about them.


We know.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2021)

I feel the Modular Vibrations


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 2, 2021)

I'd be surprised if it was anything besides another Film Scoring Selections release. The modular would cannibalize potential sales of the remaining FSS modules.

Maybe it's that highly anticipated mid-high strings one you've been pining for or the Studio 2 teaser that went all CineSamples on them.


----------



## Drumdude2112 (Dec 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Something exciting, and it's a Major Release ! coming soon from Spitfire Audio and Abbey Road-1 Studios, and I'm quite sure it's NOT an AR-1 Foundation Expansion.
> 
> 
> 
> "spitfireaudio​Some of the world’s most legendary artists have walked through these iconic doors, and now they are opening for you one more time. *Stay tuned for our next major release with @abbeyroadstudios coming soon.*"



could also be the studio 2 announcement ,


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Maybe it's that highly anticipated mid-high strings one you've been pining


NOPE . I don't think so.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> could also be the studio 2 announcement ,


That's possible, but I doubt it would qualify as a Major Announcement, for me Major is Abbey Road Studio 1 (Modular).


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> That's possible, but I doubt it would qualify as a Major Announcement, for me Major is Abbey Road Studio 1 (Modular).


Spitfire has called their $29 Original releases with artist collaborations “major” announcements, so it may be best to temper expectations.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Spitfire has called their $29 Original releases with artist collaborations “major” announcements, so it may be best to temper expectations.


That would be an instant downer. Hopefully it's not.


----------



## borisb2 (Dec 2, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Spitfire has called their $29 Original releases with artist collaborations “major” announcements, so it may be best to temper expectations.


Exactly that. i think for the next **major** release like AR Modular they would present from ISS or something to top up the game.. this announcement feels more like “AR trilling triangles” 😋 .. of course I’m wrong


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 2, 2021)

I'm aware that Spitfire Audio is good at Hyper Marketing, and their wording can be misleading, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I was predicting December would be the right month to begin releasing their Modular AR1-Orchestral sections. We shall see what this is all about, soon.


----------



## styledelk (Dec 2, 2021)

They're going to release a "Abbey Road Rooftop Fender Rhodes" (Abbey Road Rhodes, for short) to commemorate Billy Preston's contributions, timed well with Get Back out now. The inclusion of the North 7 Vintage Keys in Ton Ton was a subtle hint at their plans.


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> That's possible, but I doubt it would qualify as a Major Announcement, for me Major is Abbey Road Studio 1 (Modular).


LOL! you’re really funny dude. 

The more you continue to believe your own personal priorities and Spitfires development strategy are one and the same the more disappointed you’re going to continue to be.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I'd be surprised if it was anything besides another Film Scoring Selections release. The modular would cannibalize potential sales of the remaining FSS modules.
> 
> Maybe it's that highly anticipated mid-high strings one you've been pining for or the Studio 2 teaser that went all CineSamples on them.


I'm not sure that is true. They already know the people who buy Film Scoring Selections and those who buy a modular orchestra are usually not the same people. There will always be some overlap, but most will go one way or the other.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2021)

styledelk said:


> They're going to release a "Abbey Road Rooftop Fender Rhodes" (Abbey Road Rhodes, for short) to commemorate Billy Preston's contributions, timed well with Get Back out now. The inclusion of the North 7 Vintage Keys in Ton Ton was a subtle hint at their plans.


When they talk about all the artists that have recorded there? Yes, I'm thinking some Beatles based sample library is coming.....


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 2, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> They already know the people who buy Film Scoring Selections and those who buy a modular orchestra are usually not the same people.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 2, 2021)

prodigalson said:


>


Well, not really talking about myself. Just the professionals. Me? I buy everything that I can afford because I never know what will work*. 

*That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!


----------



## Loerpert (Dec 2, 2021)

Don't forget that with Spitfire, any release is a "major" release.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> Don't forget that with Spitfire, any release is a "major" release.


Yes, but I think a release in December is not just any release. 

Let's wait and see.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Dec 3, 2021)

I think it's the Studio 2 release teased from a while back. Promo emphasis is on "artists" which evokes The Beatles etc. 

I'd also expect hype for the Modular Orchestra to be through the roof..._"new dawn"_, _"everything changes....again!"_ and this doesn't smell like that. Could be wrong of course.


----------



## Vik (Dec 3, 2021)

Speaking of Abbey Road/Beatles, I sometimes genuinely miss being a kid in the 60s and those almost life changing experiences when my elder brother came home with a new Beatles single, where even many of the B-sides became legendary.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> Don't forget that with Spitfire, any release is a "major" release.


We'll probably have a website with a half a year countdown.
And maybe partially revealing something bits by bits every week.


----------



## styledelk (Dec 3, 2021)

big product releases are often avoided in December because it’s assumed that consumer finances are already committed to holidays and such. That’s why new game consoles, etc. come out in November.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2021)




----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


>



They are starting to produce effects?


----------



## Evans (Dec 3, 2021)

_"History in the making..."

"... a big announcement."_

Probably just some Studio Two thing.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2021)

*" History in the making, Big Announcement coming soon "*

If that's not their AR-1 Modular Orchestra , then what is it ? some guitars recorded in Studio 2 ? or Tape Echo Effects  ? or a new Drum Kit recorded in Studio 2  ? or ..... ?

Although, if it is anything related to Strings, I will still be excited  

We shall know soon.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow (Dec 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> *" History in the making, Big Announcement coming soon "*
> 
> a new Drum Kit recorded in Studio 2?


I don't want to spoil the fun here, but for some reason I think it's exaclty that 
For several reasons it just would not make sense for them to release the first part of the modular Orchestra now - my guess is the first module will be released in about 10 months. 
I think this "big announcement" is just the usual Spitfire-marketing-hype and we will see a whole other level of hype when the modular orchestra comes out. 
That said, I do look forward to that as well and would not be that sad if Spitfire prooved me wrong here


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> *" History in the making, Big Announcement coming soon "*
> 
> If that's not their AR-1 Modular Orchestra , then what is it ? some guitars recorded in Studio 2 ? or Tape Echo Effects  ? or a new Drum Kit recorded in Studio 2  ? or ..... ?
> 
> ...


I'll be shocked if it's any part of the modular orchestra. I really don't see that happening until next fall. I believe there are some strings (quartet? solo?) that were recorded in Studio 2. I'd also be surprised if they didn't have some sort of Beatles related library in the works—though of course they won't be able to call it that. This teaser campaign seems not to be about AROOF expansions, so there's that.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Beatles related library in the works


Beatles related Library ? Hopefully that's not it. I will be shocked if that's what all the fuss is about.

Who is writing in the style of the Beatles, or needs to sound like them, (especially using libraries), They did their thing, and it's calssic, and legendary, Now it's 2021. not 1967.


----------



## styledelk (Dec 3, 2021)

I'd be happy to write like them. The consumer/home studio market would love that.
Maybe not so much for film music.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Beatles related Library ? Hopefully that's not it. I will be shocked if that's what all the fuss is about.
> 
> Who is writing in the style of the Beatles, or needs to sound like them, (especially using libraries), They did their thing, and it's calssic, and legendary, Now it's 2021. not 1967.


You do have a tendency to only see things from your own perspective, and think your use case is the only one that developers could possibly be interested in. Lots of sound alike kind of stuff still being written, but there's also other libraries that cover it and it is a good question whether there would be enough interest in those sounds in that space to make a commercially viable library out of it.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> You do have a tendency to only see things from your own perspective, and think your use case is the only one that developers could possibly be interested in. Lots of sound alike kind of stuff still being written, but there's also other libraries that cover it and it is a good question whether there would be enough interest in those sounds in that space to make a commercially viable library out of it.


No comment.


----------



## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

Samples recorded at Abbey Road One? Awesome!!

Samples housed in the Spitfire player? Terrible!!


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2021)

We shall see, I might be wrong speculating that it might be AR-1 Modular Orchestra. 

Patiently waiting for either very exiting news, or super boring news for me.


----------



## Zanshin (Dec 3, 2021)

SF already has two Abby Road pianos with 60s pop related histories. I'm sure we'll see more stuff - a drum set makes sense.


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> drum set makes sense.


A Drum set, yes that's cool, but ... I wouldn't label that as History in the Making, Big Announcement coming soon. 

Hopefully it's what I think it is, if not, this thread will continue to be speculations.


----------



## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> A Drum set, yes that's cool, but ... I wouldn't label that as History in the Making, Big Announcement coming soon.
> 
> Hopefully it's what I think it is, if not, this thread will continue to be speculations.



I just want my HZ Brass!!


----------



## Zanshin (Dec 3, 2021)

I'd be disappointed if a HZ brass library wasn't recorded at Air.


----------



## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I'd be disappointed if a HZ brass library wasn't recorded at Air.



Very true, completely forgot about that part!!


----------



## Saxer (Dec 3, 2021)

I hope it's not the AROOF modular main string section... I'm drowning in string sections meanwhile but I know I will get it anyway...


----------



## Alex Fraser (Dec 3, 2021)

Saxer said:


> I hope it's not the AROOF modular main string section... I'm drowning in string sections meanwhile but I know I will get it anyway...


That’s the spirit…😅

My guess is some sort of Abbey Road 2 “toolkit.” Or Abbey Road Studio 2 Foundations, if you will.


----------



## N.Caffrey (Dec 3, 2021)

@muziksculp will you buy the expansions?


----------



## Vik (Dec 3, 2021)

styledelk said:


> I'd be happy to write like them.


Im sure Paul and Ringo are thinking the same way you do.

😊


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2021)

N.Caffrey said:


> @muziksculp will you buy the expansions?


Sure ! 

Once I hear them, and if they sound like I'm expecting them to sound, It would be an instant buy for me. I already have have the SSDs I'm planning to house them in.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> A Drum set, yes that's cool, but ... I wouldn't label that as History in the Making, Big Announcement coming soon.


That’s because you don’t possess a sense of hyperbole as over the top as Spitfire’s marketing team. To be fair, few people do or the world would be even more annoying.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Beatles related Library ? Hopefully that's not it. I will be shocked if that's what all the fuss is about.
> 
> Who is writing in the style of the Beatles, or needs to sound like them, (especially using libraries), They did their thing, and it's calssic, and legendary, Now it's 2021. not 1967.


You would be surprised. The internet damn near broke when the Beatles catalog was finally added to the streaming world. 

Release a library made in collaboration/endorsed by the surviving Beatles at Abbey Road? It could be a complete turd and it will still print money. Brand names sell. 

Make a library using the same/similar gear as the Beatles at Abbey Road and imply it’s Beatles inspired? It will print money.


----------



## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

The Beatles suck


----------



## Zanshin (Dec 3, 2021)

Kayne sucks too.


----------



## NoamL (Dec 3, 2021)

This does seem like an Abbey Road 2 thing with the mention of "artists."


----------



## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Kayne sucks too.



Kanye is far superior to The Beatles, I don’t remember The Beatles making Yeezus…


----------



## Drumdude2112 (Dec 3, 2021)

KEM said:


> The Beatles suck


Oh My 😳


----------



## Zanshin (Dec 3, 2021)

KEM said:


> Kanye is far superior to The Beatles, I don’t remember The Beatles making Yeezus…


Didn't Paul McCartney and Kayne West do a song together?


----------



## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Didn't Paul McCartney and Kayne West do a song together?



Yes a few of them, and they’re pretty good too. I like some of Paul’s solo stuff to be fair, Band on the Run is a cool song, but The Beatles I’ve never liked, always thought they were extremely overrated


----------



## chrisav (Dec 3, 2021)

Who's Kayne?


----------



## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

chrisav said:


> Who's Kayne?



Kayne East


----------



## muziksculp (Dec 3, 2021)

NoamL said:


> This does seem like an Abbey Road 2 thing with the mention of "artists."


Good observation, but that makes me feel sad, that it might not be what I'm hoping for to be released. which is (AR-1 Modular Orch). 

If it's a Studio 2 artist kit or something of that nature, I'm out, I have ZERO interest in that type of thing.


----------



## styledelk (Dec 3, 2021)

I’m always left wondering what @muziksculp is hoping and desiring! They keep it pretty close to the vest. 

Personally. I want a studio 2 clawhammer banjo. Deeply sampled. Separate samples for the 5th string drone.


----------



## borisb2 (Dec 3, 2021)

muziksculp said:


>



Yaaawn


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2021)

styledelk said:


> I’m always left wondering what @muziksculp is hoping and desiring! They keep it pretty close to the vest.
> 
> Personally. I want a studio 2 clawhammer banjo. Deeply sampled. Separate samples for the 5th string drone.


You know, Christian did mention something about getting bagpipes for Hans Zimmer.....


----------



## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> You know, Christian did mention something about getting bagpipes for Hans Zimmer.....



They should include it in HZ Brass…


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 3, 2021)

styledelk said:


> I’m always left wondering what @muziksculp is hoping and desiring! They keep it pretty close to the vest.
> 
> Personally. I want a studio 2 clawhammer banjo. Deeply sampled. Separate samples for the 5th string drone.


Well OBVIOUSLY the only thing anyone would want...NAY the only thing worth releasing AT ALL is an orchestral string library recorded in Abbey Road Studio One.

In fact, Spitfire Audio, why bother even sampling ANYTHING else ever again?!?!


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> Well OBVIOUSLY the only thing anyone would want...NAY the only thing worth releasing AT ALL is an orchestral string library recorded in Abbey Road Studio One.
> 
> In fact, Spitfire Audio, why bother even sampling ANYTHING else ever again?!?!


But what about low Brass? You have to have low brass!


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 3, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> But what about low Brass? You have to have low brass!


I sincerely hope they figure out how to sample the high dynamics of low brass without losing all the low end.


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 3, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> But what about low Brass? You have to have low brass!


OK maybe Low Brass at Abbey Road Studio One...but THATS IT!! Low Brass and Orchestral Strings only! Who....I say WHO could POSSIBLY want anything else??


----------



## NoamL (Dec 3, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I sincerely hope they figure out how to sample the high dynamics of low brass without losing all the low end.


the mid-high dynamics, even.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 3, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> OK maybe Low Brass at Abbey Road Studio One...but THATS IT!! Low Brass and Orchestral Strings only! Who....I say WHO could POSSIBLY want anything else??


----------



## Alex Fraser (Dec 4, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Good observation, but that makes me feel sad, that it might not be what I'm hoping for to be released. which is (AR-1 Modular Orch).
> 
> If it's a Studio 2 artist kit or something of that nature, I'm out, I have ZERO interest in that type of thing.


I think even if you get your wish, it’ll only be a small part of it. I’m starting to come around to the idea that Spitfire will embrace the “modular” aspect of this orchestra. Instead of a big splash, we’ll see releases over a wide time frame.


----------



## Saxer (Dec 4, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> I think even if you get your wish, it’ll only be a small part of it. I’m starting to come around to the idea that Spitfire will embrace the “modular” aspect of this orchestra. Instead of a big splash, we’ll see releases over a wide time frame.


Yes, but it would be helpful if they start it some time.


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 4, 2021)

Saxer said:


> Yes, but it would be helpful if they start it some time.


Haha, yep. 
But I think they already have in a way, with those £50 combi things.


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## muziksculp (Dec 6, 2021)

Is this AR-1 Studio 2 ?

If it is, then what's coming soon is not the AR-1 Modular Orchestra. and this thread will go back to speculation mode.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 6, 2021)

Forget about the talking walls. That floor is _filthy_!

Also that's the AR2 staircase. Ringo Star drums confirmed.


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## muziksculp (Dec 6, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Forget about the talking walls. That floor is _filthy_!
> 
> Also that's the AR2 staircase. Ringo Star drums confirmed.


So, it is AR Studio 2. 

Sadly not what I wanted to see.


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## MelodicAdagio (Dec 6, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Beatles related Library ? Hopefully that's not it. I will be shocked if that's what all the fuss is about.
> 
> Who is writing in the style of the Beatles, or needs to sound like them, (especially using libraries), They did their thing, and it's calssic, and legendary, Now it's 2021. not 1967.


EastWest already did a nice Fab Four library a while back and I'm glad they did. Much of the Beatles sound in their latter years came from rare and now unavailable and sometimes heavily modified equipment. The Beatles kept the sound engineers busy. EastWest was able to painstakingly gather together and sample much of this equipment and work with one of the Beatles engineers to capture the authentic sounds before the ability to reproduce them was lost to time.


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## borisb2 (Dec 6, 2021)

MelodicAdagio said:


> EastWest already did a nice Fab Four library a while back and I'm glad they did.


You can’t say something positive about EW in an Spitfire thread .. what were you thinking? 😂


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## muziksculp (Dec 6, 2021)

MelodicAdagio said:


> EastWest already did a nice Fab Four library a while back and I'm glad they did. Much of the Beatles sound in their latter years came from rare and now unavailable and sometimes heavily modified equipment. The Beatles kept the sound engineers busy. EastWest was able to painstakingly gather together and sample much of this equipment and work with one of the Beatles engineers to capture the authentic sounds before the ability to reproduce them was lost to time.


Interesting. I never checked EW Fab Four library, mainly because I don't need those sounds, and I'm guessing whatever Spitfire is releasing will be a Pass for me, if it's a Beatles related library, or a Ringo Drum Kit.


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## styledelk (Dec 6, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Interesting. I never checked EW Fab Four library, mainly because I don't need those sounds, and I'm guessing whatever Spitfire is releasing will be a Pass for me, if it's a Beatles related library, or a Ringo Drum Kit.


I mean the sound in the video is clearly double bass.


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## muziksculp (Dec 6, 2021)

styledelk said:


> I mean the sound in the video is clearly double bass.


So, what do you conclude from that ?


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## styledelk (Dec 6, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> So, what do you conclude from that ?


Probably string quartet (plus some goodies?) recorded in the room.


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## muziksculp (Dec 6, 2021)

styledelk said:


> Probably string quartet (plus some goodies?) recorded in the room.


That would be of high interest to me, but if it is a pop/rock related release, I have no interest. 

I will keep my fingers


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 6, 2021)

Given that the incoming Studio 2 library looks to be Spitfire’s Hero Launch for December (and something to keep the hype train moving over the Xmas sale period) I think we can safely put the modular orch into 2022. 

(Unless Santa slips it into @muziksculp ‘s stocking! 😉)


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## muziksculp (Dec 6, 2021)

Alex Fraser said:


> (Unless Santa slips it into @muziksculp ‘s stocking! 😉)


If you are able to reach Santa, please tell him to do so. I would appreciate it.


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## Peter Satera (Dec 6, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Is this AR-1 Studio 2 ?
> 
> If it is, then what's coming soon is not the AR-1 Modular Orchestra. and this thread will go back to speculation mode.



JUMMMANJI


----------



## banjo01 (Dec 9, 2021)

AR solo strings?


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## muziksculp (Dec 9, 2021)

banjo01 said:


> AR solo strings?


Yup. You were very close. It's AR2 Iconic Strings , and they sound amazing. 

Congratulations to Spitfire Audio for a super exciting release. At least it wasn't the Ringo Drum Kit. 

Now. That the storm has settled a bit for 2021 with regards to Spitfire Audio libraries, (I'm guessing). 

I'm sure the AR1 Modular Orchestra will begin showing up during 2022.


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## banjo01 (Dec 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Yup. You were very close. It's AR2 Iconic Strings , and they sound amazing.
> 
> Congratulations to Spitfire Audio for a super exciting release. At least it wasn't the Ringo Drum Kit.
> 
> ...


Was a nice release. From the demos they sound great. I don't have a solo string library since I usually play my own notes on my cello and have my friends play violin when I need, but I may get this one (Core if the upgrade path is just like BBCSO).

Do you plan on getting it as well?


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## muziksculp (Dec 9, 2021)

banjo01 said:


> Was a nice release. From the demos they sound great. I don't have a solo string library since I usually play my own notes on my cello and have my friends play violin when I need, but I may get this one (Core if the upgrade path is just like BBCSO).
> 
> Do you plan on getting it as well?


Hi @banjo01 ,

Yes, this library sounds amazing, I hear lots of detail, great timbre, and it sounds alive, and animated. 

I purchased the Pro version. Didn't download yet. I'm trying to manage my SSD space, lots of new libraries I need to install that were purchased during BF, and this month. 

Yes, You can upgrade from Core to Pro, and Pro users also have access to the Core version. Just like the BBCSO system. Which is very nice. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## soulofsound (Dec 9, 2021)

It sounds unbelieveably good. Only i don't have the space for Pro and i don't want to lose expressive possibilities by choosing Core. It's a pity really. They must have had a reason to decide to release it this way, but they end up making it impossible for me to buy it.


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## Zanshin (Dec 9, 2021)

soulofsound said:


> It sounds unbelieveably good. Only i don't have the space for Pro and i don't want to lose expressive possibilities by choosing Core. It's a pity really. They must have had a reason to decide to release it this way, but they end up making it impossible for me to buy it.


If you can temp make space you could delete mics after install. Not ideal but…


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## banjo01 (Dec 9, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @banjo01 ,
> 
> Yes, this library sounds amazing, I hear lots of detail, great timbre, and it sounds alive, and animated.
> 
> ...


I bit and I got core. It's still downloading but will play around with it.


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## muziksculp (Dec 9, 2021)

banjo01 said:


> I bit and I got core. It's still downloading but will play around with it.


Congratulations ! 

Very Good Choice.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Dec 10, 2021)

Interesting. Does this open the door for a twin release of core/pro versions of the modular orchestra? I wonder..


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## holywilly (Dec 10, 2021)

I have high hope on the AR modular orchestra, the sounds and playability(based on what I learned from the walkthrough video) from Abbey Road Two are just second to none!

I’m highly interested in getting Abbey Road Two.


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## Alex Fraser (Jan 20, 2022)

And…bump. 

Let’s talk price. Previously, I’ve been of the opinion that the modular orchestra buy-in will require the sale of some body parts. 

But the surprising low price points of the Abbey Road 2 strings and just released Air Ninja Legatos, is causing me to wobble on that front. 

Thoughts from the collective?


----------



## mybadmemory (Jan 20, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> And…bump.
> 
> Let’s talk price. Previously, I’ve been of the opinion that the modular orchestra buy-in will require the sale of some body parts.
> 
> ...


I think Spitfire probably reaches a substantially larger user base with slightly more affordable pricing like this. The pros with endless pockets are a minority after all. Their best bet at growth at this point is reaching a much broader audience. I think that’s why we see them focusing on Labs, Originals, AROOF extensions and the likes of AR2 Strings and this one. Make it accessible and get all those hundreds of thousands of newcomers and hobbyists to reach for their wallets.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Jan 20, 2022)

Kind of thinking along the same lines.

BBCSO being discounted more or less since November had me raising a bushy eyebrow too. Clearly, it’s selling well at the lower price point (Unless it’s discounted due to dropping sales..but let’s not go there yet!)

Food for thought if nothing else.


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## jamessy (Jan 20, 2022)

AR strings is cheaper than SsS for the standard addition and pricier (and WAY bigger footprint) for the pro edition. I hope there's a core and a pro version for everything for the AR line so that hobbyists can both afford and fit it on their computer


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## Alex Fraser (Jan 20, 2022)

I guess it all depends on how far the “modular” aspect goes, too.

“Abbey Road Violins Volume I” @ £99.
For example.

(Actually, that might be fun. Split it into bite size modules that cause “insta-buys”, awake the collector gremlin in all of us and allows Spitfire to spreeeeaaad the hype.)


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 20, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> And…bump.
> 
> Let’s talk price. Previously, I’ve been of the opinion that the modular orchestra buy-in will require the sale of some body parts.
> 
> ...


I still think it will be body parts pricing for the whole. But I'm thinking they might make it highly modularized so that individual modules are priced attractively on their own. That's sort of what they did with BML, though prices in general were much higher back then.


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## muziksculp (Jan 22, 2022)

Hi,

Now that Spitfire Audio has introduced us to their new 'Impulse Legato' in their latest Strings Library 'Appassionata Strings', I wonder if they will use these Impulse Legato techniques in AR-1 Modular Orchestra ? 

I see no reason why they won't, since it sounds so good. 

Looking forward to AR-1 Modular Orchestra Releases this year. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## holywilly (Jan 23, 2022)

Not just legatos, I wish spitfire offers different types of shorts and other articulations as well, since Paul stated this is the most detailed library ever sampled.


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## muziksculp (Jan 23, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Not just legatos, I wish spitfire offers different types of shorts and other articulations as well, since Paul stated this is the most detailed library ever sampled.


Yes, Absolutely. 

I'm hoping they will do so in the upcoming AR-1 Modular Orchestra Sections, especially a healthy amount of dynamics is a must for the shorts.


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## Jackdnp121 (Jan 23, 2022)

I’m just trying to imagine how that Impulse legato will sounds in Abbey road 1 

that’s like dreams come true in so many different ways … 

and also if they could keep it affordable like this one 

damn ….. 

🥲 …..


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## Alex Fraser (Jan 23, 2022)

Impulse legatos in AR modular…

..I would think likely? Would seem unusual for the new tech to be developed just for one product.

On the other hand…it depends where on the dev timeline AR recordings started. As I understand it, the recordings have to be made in a certain way for the legato tech.

And the AR “selections” don’t have it.. 🙁

Someone, somewhere knows…


----------



## Jackdnp121 (Jan 23, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Impulse legatos in AR modular…
> 
> ..I would think likely? Would seem unusual for the new tech to be developed just for one product.
> 
> On the other hand…it depends where on the dev timeline AR recordings started. Someone, somewhere knows…


I layered Abbey Road 1 High Strings Patch with Appassionata Strings 

I do like how they sound ... Abbey road have a wider sound which I love 

View attachment Tennesse - HZ.mp3

​


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## Alex Fraser (Jan 23, 2022)

Jackdnp121 said:


> I layered Abbey Road 1 High Strings Patch with Appassionata Strings
> 
> I do like how they sound ... Abbey road have a wider sound which I love
> 
> ...


That’s lovely.

Also, thinking as I type, even if the first round of AR strings doesn’t have Power Legato 2 (™)..there’s nothing to stop a later release of “Abbey Road Appassionata Strings” as a separate modular volume.


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## Jackdnp121 (Jan 23, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> That’s lovely.
> 
> Also, thinking as I type, even if the first round of AR strings doesn’t have Power Legato 2 (™)..there’s nothing to stop a later release of “Abbey Road Appassionata Strings” as a separate modular volume.


I'm cool with that if the price is affordable like this one ...


----------



## Alex Fraser (Jan 23, 2022)

Jackdnp121 said:


> I'm cool with that if the price is affordable like this one ...


Yeah, me too. If I was a betting man I reckon that’s the most likely trajectory..but who knows. 🤷 

All important for me is the price point really. Would be great if it was truly modular so we could grab as funds allow.


----------



## muziksculp (Jan 23, 2022)

I wonder if Spitfire plans to release AR-1 Modular Orch. when all the modular orchestral sections are completed ? or will they be releasing them when any or the Orch. modules is completed ?


----------



## IOnian Streams (Jan 29, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> Do we really know that modular will actually mean separate libraries for each section in this case? Couldn’t is just as well mean a single library but focusing on sections and soloists, rather than ensembles like AROOF? AROOF being the Albion and the modular being the BBC?


I've read this thread trying to come up to speed on AR1 Modular Orchestra. The word "speculation" in the thread title is apt! Not to digress too much but...

Is Paul's statement at the end of the AROOF intro video that "some of our users like to do very detailed orchestration, and they'll be very excited to know that one of the projects we're working on together is a new modular orchestra that will be the most detailed orchestral library we've ever created" -- is that the only concrete reference made by Spitfire regarding this modular orchestra? From there it's all speculation? Or have I missed some other statement from Spitfire about the modular orchestra?

From Paul's statement it appears that the purpose of the Modular Orchestra is to allow orchestration of individual instruments (a la BBCSO) as opposed to the pre-orchestrations baked into AROOF & Selections. Is this what you all understand? If so, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume the source recordings made in the Abbey Road Studio 1 are the same in both? That they're just re-packaged to be "modular" (whatever that really means) and to allow more detailed orchestration?

And while I'm here, like others, I'd really love to know if this much-ballyhooed-but-still-mysterious Modular Orchestra will have the new impulse legatos like Appassionata Strings.



Alex Fraser said:


> Impulse legatos in AR modular… ...Someone, somewhere knows…


----------



## Alex Fraser (Jan 29, 2022)

I think there's been nuggets dropped elsewhere. If I recall, there was talk of (the mod orch) being a long term project. But yes, basically this 10 page thread is hanging on that one sentence. Peak VIC.

The samples for AROOF would have been recorded in situ as ensembles - not stacked recordings of individual instruments. So I think it's reasonable to assume that it'll be (mostly) new recordings. 👍


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## muziksculp (Jan 29, 2022)

IOnian Streams said:


> From Paul's statement it appears that the purpose of the Modular Orchestra is to allow orchestration of individual instruments (a la BBCSO) as opposed to the pre-orchestrations baked into AROOF & Selections. Is this what you all understand?


Yes. 



IOnian Streams said:


> If so, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume the source recordings made in the Abbey Road Studio 1 are the same in both?


No, I think they would be different recording for the AR1 Mod. Orch. 



IOnian Streams said:


> And while I'm here, like others, I'd really love to know if this much-ballyhooed-but-still-mysterious Modular Orchestra will have the new impulse legatos like Appassionata Strings.


I would love to have these new Impulse Legato techniques make their way into AR-1 Mod.Orch. Why not ? they know they have a winner with Appssionata Strings, all they have to do is use the same techniques for the Legatos in AR-1 Mod. Orch.


----------



## mybadmemory (Jan 29, 2022)

IOnian Streams said:


> I've read this thread trying to come up to speed on AR1 Modular Orchestra. The word "speculation" in the thread title is apt! Not to digress too much but...
> 
> Is Paul's statement at the end of the AROOF intro video that "some of our users like to do very detailed orchestration, and they'll be very excited to know that one of the projects we're working on together is a new modular orchestra that will be the most detailed orchestral library we've ever created" -- is that the only concrete reference made by Spitfire regarding this modular orchestra? From there it's all speculation? Or have I missed some other statement from Spitfire about the modular orchestra?
> 
> ...


I think it’s probably pretty safe to assume new recordings, with impulse legatos (whatever that is), packaged as a bunch of separate libraries, probably with different tiers like Core, Pro, and so on. But you never know.


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## Vik (Jan 29, 2022)

My guess is that the 'impulse' legato tehcnique will sound even more convincing in Abbey Road than it the Air studios, as long as they come with all the details that are needed, like separate vibrato control, at least five dynamic layers, and avoid the shortcomings we've seen and heard in libraries like CSS, SSS, Berlin Strings and even (based on demos and walkthroughs) : Spitfire Appassionata Strings. (SAS)

They all seem to miss a vibrato layer. CSS, Berlin Strings and SSS miss the vibrato level between medium and molto, and it seems like SAS in several cases are missing a truly soaring molto vibrato level, witha capitol M. Three vibrato levels simply aren't enough, especially if one counts No Vibrato as a vibrato level. 

Btw, I also hope that the modular Spitfire library coes with something SAS seems to only partially have: long notes (sustains and legatos) that have enough 'movement' ('con moto' means 'with movement'), the way we have heard it in CSS, Vista and Con Moto (among others).

It doesn't help much if the legato transition between two notes are perfect if the transition ends up in a long note where (some of) the players ignore that such a library needs both 'con moto', 'espressivo', 'cantabile', 'lyrical' and 'soaring'.


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## dzilizzi (Jan 29, 2022)

Christian also made a number of statements both on YouTube, during the Tombola in 2020, and here on various threads. It will be individual instruments similar to SSO or BBCSO but sold in individual sections/instruments/modules. Not quite sure the breakdown but all recorded at AR. You can find a lot of thin info right after the announced AROOF.


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## Noeticus (Jan 29, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, Absolutely.
> 
> I'm hoping they will do so in the upcoming AR-1 Modular Orchestra Sections, especially a healthy amount of dynamics is a must for the shorts.


Correction... lots of DYNAMICS for all articulations is a must.


----------



## jbuhler (Jan 29, 2022)

IOnian Streams said:


> I've read this thread trying to come up to speed on AR1 Modular Orchestra. The word "speculation" in the thread title is apt! Not to digress too much but...
> 
> Is Paul's statement at the end of the AROOF intro video that "some of our users like to do very detailed orchestration, and they'll be very excited to know that one of the projects we're working on together is a new modular orchestra that will be the most detailed orchestral library we've ever created" -- is that the only concrete reference made by Spitfire regarding this modular orchestra? From there it's all speculation? Or have I missed some other statement from Spitfire about the modular orchestra?
> 
> ...


No, this doesn’t make much sense for a lot of reasons. The modular idea has been mentioned in passing on many occasions. It’s possible that it could be released all in one package like BBCSO but there are all sorts of reasons I think that is unlikely, the word “modular” being high among them. For SF that word has a history, namely the British Modular Library that was the forerunner of SSO. 

I can’t see the modularity being less than strings, brass, woodwinds, and percussion. I think it’s likely that it will be more modular than that so each module can be attractively priced even if the whole is extremely expensive. Also folks seem to want to be able to buy individual instruments. It also allows SF to bring it all out in stages rather than dropping it all at once. I have to believe that will be easier to manage.


----------



## IOnian Streams (Jan 29, 2022)

Thanks everybody. Your answers help -- trying to decide whether to pull trigger on Appassionata before Feb 10 or maybe [wait for] something else. And, yes, it makes sense that they would not/could not use the same recordings for individual instruments/sections and ensembles.


----------



## dzilizzi (Jan 29, 2022)

IOnian Streams said:


> Thanks everybody. Your answers help -- trying to decide whether to pull trigger on Appassionata before Feb 10 or maybe [wait for] something else. And, yes, it makes sense that they would not/could not use the same recordings for individual instruments/sections and ensembles.


From what I understand they have recorded some of the modular and maybe most of it by now. The covid shutdowns stopped recording on this. But I understand they were able to get back in by the end of 2020 and in 2021. But we don't know how far they got. Abbey Road is probably scheduled out for recording for a couple years, so anything that was cancelled would have to be fit in between other recordings. So it could be a while.


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## prodigalson (Jan 29, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I can’t see the modularity being less than strings, brass, woodwinds, and percussion. I think it’s likely that it will be more modular than that so each module can be attractively priced even if the whole is extremely expensive. Also folks seem to want to be able to buy individual instruments. It also allows SF to bring it all out in stages rather than dropping it all at once. I have to believe that will be easier to manage.


I can't help think about why they made the sudden and somewhat 180 degree decision back in 2015(?) to abandon BML and put in the hard work to consolidate everything into the current SSO. At the time, there must have been a significant business reason. Perhaps they weren't making as much money from selling individual volumes as if they released more substantial packages. Perhaps, market forces and competing products from other developers pushed them in that direction. Perhaps it actually was HARDER to manage so many individual volumes. Perhaps all of the above.

Whatever it was, I don't think the market has changed that much since then so can't imagine SF suddenly deciding to go back down the road of the BML that they so clearly abandoned intentionally.

I would predict "modular" to them now means Strings, Brass, Woodwinds etc. Unless, they've taken a page out of OTs book and will offer individual volumes (trumpets, violins etc etc) but ALSO the completed packages (Brass, Strings etc) at a significant discount than buying individually.

We'll see!


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## jbuhler (Jan 29, 2022)

prodigalson said:


> I can't help think about why they made the sudden and somewhat 180 degree decision back in 2015(?) to abandon BML and put in the hard work to consolidate everything into the current SSO. At the time, there must have been a significant business reason. Perhaps they weren't making as much money from selling individual volumes as if they released more substantial packages. Perhaps, market forces and competing products from other developers pushed them in that direction. Perhaps it actually was HARDER to manage so many individual volumes. Perhaps all of the above.
> 
> Whatever it was, I don't think the market has changed that much since then so can't imagine SF suddenly deciding to go back down the road of the BML that they so clearly abandoned intentionally.
> 
> ...


I think the decision was made because at the time they didn't have the database to efficiently keep track of it, especially all the various complete your bundle options that were required by the BML organization. They now have a lot more experience running a very complex website. I think they also made a decision at the time that they could do better selling the libraries as packages at a lower price point. 

But I think AR modular will be a different kind of price point, likely higher than the original BML libraries were offered at, and so they likely want a way for folks to buy into it in smaller, more affordable pieces. I also think they want to be able to bring it out in regular installments rather than all at once so they can give each bit more attention as it is coming out. I think sale by instrument like OT has, with larger section libraries (Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion), and then the whole thing, with discounts at each level is indeed most likely. There may be a core and a pro level as well. But pro level is likely to include added instruments and articulations. And core may contain more than one mic position. All of this is, of course, speculation.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Jan 30, 2022)

I suspect we’re looking at something modular. Spitfire already seem to be taking this approach with the AROOF product line: A base product with expansion “selections.”

My (random) guess would be a slice along instrument and articulation lines, rather then mics. Just like AROOF. This approach might mean not having a “Core” product though..

As always, take your salt etc.


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## Alex Fraser (Feb 7, 2022)

__





Spitfire Appassionata - Release Thread


hum…Viola is not included. Too bad. Why didn't they include it? Only so much we can record! We'll certainly be going far more in depth when it comes to the Abbey Road modular libraries, but for now keeping this one at the price it is means making sure we use the recording time efficiently to...




vi-control.net






> Only so much we can record! We'll certainly be going far more in depth when it comes to the Abbey Road modular libraries, but for now keeping this one at the price it is means making sure we use the recording time efficiently to capture what we really need first.


Seeing as we're in the business of taking 2+2, making 67 and reading too much into everything..

My take: Interesting that Spitfire seem to decide on a price point first and then sample to that level. Seems logical. Implication here for AR Modular is that they've planned for deeper sampling and by implication, higher buy-in.


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## mussnig (Feb 7, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Interesting that Spitfire seem to decide on a price point first and then sample to that level.


If I remember correctly, Paul Thomson once mentioned something along the lines that they planned BBCSO to give you a full orchestra for a 999 $ price.

And sure, they probably could have sampled it with more dynamic layers but then it would a) probably be at around 1 TB in size and b) too expensive for many people (sure, you could break it down to smaller versions etc. but I'm sure they have carefully analyzed their options). And after all, they are a business with ~70 employees (afaik), so a lot of people depend on them making products that sell.

Same thing with Appassionata: there are already a couple of highly regarded libs for lyrical string legatos. And (as a business) they probably aimed for a certain spot on the market.


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## Alex Fraser (Feb 7, 2022)

mussnig said:


> If I remember correctly, Paul Thomson once mentioned something along the lines that they planned BBCSO to give you a full orchestra for a 999 $ price.


Yes I remember that too. I think he made the statement to fend off complaints that the strings didn't have 20 dynamic layers and 36 RR.


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## BasariStudios (Feb 7, 2022)

I wonder if it will be compatible with Buchla or just Eurorack.


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## muziksculp (Feb 7, 2022)

BasariStudios said:


> I wonder if it will be compatible with Buchla or just Eurorack.


Not sure yet, but you surely need lots of high-quality patch cables to make it come alive. It's a super deep Modular.


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## BasariStudios (Feb 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Not sure yet, but you surely need lots of high-quality patch cables to make it come alive. It's a super deep Modular.


Can't wait. My TipTop Audio Cables are ready.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Feb 7, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I think the decision was made because at the time they didn't have the database to efficiently keep track of it, especially all the various complete your bundle options that were required by the BML organization. They now have a lot more experience running a very complex website. I think they also made a decision at the time that they could do better selling the libraries as packages at a lower price point.
> 
> But I think AR modular will be a different kind of price point, likely higher than the original BML libraries were offered at, and so they likely want a way for folks to buy into it in smaller, more affordable pieces. I also think they want to be able to bring it out in regular installments rather than all at once so they can give each bit more attention as it is coming out. I think sale by instrument like OT has, with larger section libraries (Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion), and then the whole thing, with discounts at each level is indeed most likely. There may be a core and a pro level as well. But pro level is likely to include added instruments and articulations. And core may contain more than one mic position. All of this is, of course, speculation.


From a financial point of view, regular installments also give the company a steady in-flow of money compared to if they wait until a full section is ready to be put up for sale.


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## Reznov981 (Apr 2, 2022)

Just curious to check if by “modular orchestra” we mean like a hybrid one? Like Symphonic Destruction? Is that the idea?


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## KEM (Apr 2, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Just curious to check if by “modular orchestra” we mean like a hybrid one? Like Symphonic Destruction? Is that the idea?



Nope, not at all. It’s different sections but it’s all standard articulations


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## mussnig (Apr 2, 2022)

KEM said:


> Nope, not at all. It’s different sections but it’s all standard articulations


Nah, the Strings will for sure have Super Sul Tastos and a couple of others "at the edge of silence". Not really standard in my opinion (but on the other hand, for a Spitfire Strings library it would probably be standard).


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## KEM (Apr 2, 2022)

mussnig said:


> Nah, the Strings will for sure have Super Sul Tastos and a couple of others "at the edge of silence". Not really standard in my opinion (but on the other hand, for a Spitfire Strings library it would probably be standard).



Fair point, I’ll give you that one


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## Mike Stone (Apr 3, 2022)

mussnig said:


> Nah, the Strings will for sure have Super Sul Tastos and a couple of others "at the edge of silence". Not really standard in my opinion (but on the other hand, for a Spitfire Strings library it would probably be standard).


This AR-1 modular orchestra library is very exciting, but I hope Spitfire can deliver the goods without any cut corners, especially in the following departments:

1: Playable and agile legato patches (Spitfire showed us they have the ability with Appassionata)

2: Strings, woodwinds and brass consistently getting that additional ff-fff velocity layer on top

3: Precisely edited samples (esp. attacks), for fast tempos and hybrid/pop-rock projects

4: Nuanced dynamic vibrato control (at least 3, preferably 4 layers from sans to molto vibrato)


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## mussnig (Apr 3, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> This AR-1 modular orchestra library is very exciting, but I hope Spitfire can deliver the goods without any cut corners, especially in the following departments:
> 
> 1: Playable and agile legato patches (Spitfire showed us they have the ability with Appassionata)
> 
> ...


I expect 1, judging by AROOF (I don't have it, but from what I've heard of it) I think that 2 is realistic. I hope they learned from past releases and do a good job with 3. Regarding 4: I am not sure. I would be very happy about it but I don't expect this at all.


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## Mike Stone (Apr 3, 2022)

mussnig said:


> I expect 1, judging by AROOF (I don't have it, but from what I've heard of it) I think that 2 is realistic. I hope they learned from past releases and do a good job with 3. Regarding 4: I am not sure. I would be very happy about it but I don't expect this at all.


As far as #4, Spitfire usually have three non/vibrato layers for the strings, so I take that for granted. However, adding a fourth layer could really make a difference for expressiveness. Either way, I’m sure it’s going to sound fantastic (AROOF certainly does). Appassionata's legato is a big step forward for Spitfire IMO, but also having the possibility of really digging in for that extra bit of intensity and grit is important...


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## chrisav (Apr 3, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> This AR-1 modular orchestra library is very exciting, but I hope Spitfire can deliver the goods without any cut corners, especially in the following departments:
> 
> 1: Playable and agile legato patches (Spitfire showed us they have the ability with Appassionata)
> 
> ...


Re: point 3, as much as I'm looking forward to the modular orchestra, I'm not gonna go in to a Spitfire release expecting precise editing of any sort 😂


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## Reznov981 (Apr 5, 2022)

KEM said:


> Nope, not at all. It’s different sections but it’s all standard articulations


So what’s the difference that people are waiting for? (I’m actually not trying to sound aggressive or anything lol) Just with Abbey Road 1 and all the little add ons feeling kind of exactly what you described here?


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## Vlzmusic (Apr 5, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> So what’s the difference that people are waiting for? (I’m actually not trying to sound aggressive or anything lol) Just with Abbey Road 1 and all the little add ons feeling kind of exactly what you described here?


Feels like people want a full fledged orchestra made in Abbey Road, for it to be at least as detailed as BBCso.


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## Alex Fraser (Apr 5, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> Feels like people want a full fledged orchestra made in Abbey Road, for it to be at least as detailed as BBCso.





Reznov981 said:


> So what’s the difference that people are waiting for? (I’m actually not trying to sound aggressive or anything lol) Just with Abbey Road 1 and all the little add ons feeling kind of exactly what you described here?


Think BBCSO or Spitfire's Symphonic Orchestra (Air version) but recorded at Abbey Road.
That's basically what's been confirmed so far and we're just pontificating over possible details.


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## Reznov981 (Apr 5, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Think BBCSO or Spitfire's Symphonic Orchestra (Air version) but recorded at Abbey Road.
> That's basically what's been confirmed so far and we're just pontificating over possible details.


Ohhhhhh. I mean that would be great! I guess I just didn't understand the use of a new term (for me) being the "modular" bit. 🤷‍♂️ Abbey Road is a beautiful space and I'm sure Spitfire could very well bringwhat they've learned in the last two years to the new library. 

I'm a bit of a noob and personally don't see what another orchestra of similar patches/articulations can bring to the table that a solid update on existing libraries (or even a paid upgrade if it's a big enough that's worth it).

Genuinely sorry and will shut up if I'm ruining anyone's excitment about the possibility of this!


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## Alex Fraser (Apr 5, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Genuinely sorry and will shut up if I'm ruining anyone's excitment about the possibility of this!


No apologies required!



Reznov981 said:


> I'm a bit of a noob and personally don't see what another orchestra of similar patches/articulations can bring to the table that a solid update on existing libraries (or even a paid upgrade if it's a big enough that's worth it).


The big news would be the room. New recording space, mics etc = new sound. There's also the tech improvements via the Spitfire plugin (All the mics in one place, that new Power Legato thing they have.) Also some possibilities and questions over the "modular approach."

But really, it's just about new toys.


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## prodigalson (Apr 5, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> No apologies required!
> 
> 
> The big news would be the room. New recording space, mics etc = new sound. There's also the tech improvements via the Spitfire plugin (All the mics in one place, that new Power Legato thing they have.) Also some possibilities and questions over the "modular approach."
> ...


…and more dynamic layers


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## Reznov981 (Apr 5, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> No apologies required!
> 
> 
> The big news would be the room. New recording space, mics etc = new sound. There's also the tech improvements via the Spitfire plugin (All the mics in one place, that new Power Legato thing they have.) Also some possibilities and questions over the "modular approach."
> ...


Yeah okay fair, totally get that. I've definitely been more excited about much less worthy things so no judgment here. 

I suppose adding dynamic layers to BBC SO isn't really possible without totally enw recordings, and that's just not as cost-efficient as releasing a new library which people will buy. I also am totally ignorant on the re-programming and scripting (and potentially re-recording) it would take to properly update an old library's legato to the best current standard. I assume it's similarly arduous and inefficient 

I think I'm coming from my position that can't really afford to buy a new big orchestra library every year, but wants to stay up to date with the latest, well, "toys" like you said . Alas, I am 'forced' to buy them anyway...


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## Alex Fraser (Apr 5, 2022)

For me, the most interesting part is the “modular” aspect. I’m already assuming it will sound great, be usable etc etc.

I’d find it difficult to justify stumping up a four figure sum off the bat for a new orchestra, but if Spitfire were so inclined to slice’n’dice the product into cheaper “modules”, things could get interesting.


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## KEM (Apr 5, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> So what’s the difference that people are waiting for? (I’m actually not trying to sound aggressive or anything lol) Just with Abbey Road 1 and all the little add ons feeling kind of exactly what you described here?



Basically what Spitfire did with BBCSO but in Abbey Road 1, at least that’s what it seems to be


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## dzilizzi (Apr 5, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Yeah okay fair, totally get that. I've definitely been more excited about much less worthy things so no judgment here.
> 
> I suppose adding dynamic layers to BBC SO isn't really possible without totally enw recordings, and that's just not as cost-efficient as releasing a new library which people will buy. I also am totally ignorant on the re-programming and scripting (and potentially re-recording) it would take to properly update an old library's legato to the best current standard. I assume it's similarly arduous and inefficient
> 
> I think I'm coming from my position that can't really afford to buy a new big orchestra library every year, but wants to stay up to date with the latest, well, "toys" like you said . Alas, I am 'forced' to buy them anyway...


Unfortunately, BBCSO can't be re-recorded because the studio is gone from what I understand. The building is still there, but the equipment has been removed and they don't record there anymore. 

I really like the sound of Abbey Road Studio and so am looking forward to the new orchestra. But always remember, a year after it comes out, it will potentially be on one of the 40% off sales. And as a bundle, maybe even cheaper. You never have to buy when it first comes out.


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## Fitz (Apr 10, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Yeah okay fair, totally get that. I've definitely been more excited about much less worthy things so no judgment here.
> 
> I suppose adding dynamic layers to BBC SO isn't really possible without totally enw recordings, and that's just not as cost-efficient as releasing a new library which people will buy. I also am totally ignorant on the re-programming and scripting (and potentially re-recording) it would take to properly update an old library's legato to the best current standard. I assume it's similarly arduous and inefficient
> 
> I think I'm coming from my position that can't really afford to buy a new big orchestra library every year, but wants to stay up to date with the latest, well, "toys" like you said . Alas, I am 'forced' to buy them anyway...


The truth, which no one on this forum will really admit, is it’s not really about the sample library. You can make a great mock-up with a library from the 90s. How? You learn the sounds. I’m still working with Spitfire symphonic strings bc I know them well. I have tons of others I use for different things, but if someone took away my entire string template but one decent library with mic positions, I’d have no problem with it. I like to learn to work with something, not have some big shiny sound that blows you up but doesn’t sit well in any mix.


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## muziksculp (May 4, 2022)

Hi,

I have noticed that Spitfire Audio has been keeping us entertained with some Freebies, and Originals Libraries, meanwhile, I suspect that they are working hard at developing their new Rolls Royce Orchestral Library, Abbey Road One - Modular Orchestra.

If you notice, they have also not been releasing much orchestral stuff, the last being Appassionata Strings. Which I also feel was something they experimented with, and learned a lot from, which will also benefit their upcoming AR-1 Modular Orchestra's Legatos.

I'm so, excited about this Spitfire Audio library, and patiently wait for its release.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is released before Pacific Strings 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## PaulieDC (May 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have noticed that Spitfire Audio has been keeping us entertained with some Freebies, and Originals Libraries, meanwhile, I suspect that they are working hard at developing their new Rolls Royce Orchestral Library, Abbey Road One - Modular Orchestra.
> 
> ...


I absolutely hope you are 100% right! I have space on my NVMe drive ready-a-go.


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## jbuhler (May 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have noticed that Spitfire Audio has been keeping us entertained with some Freebies, and Originals Libraries, meanwhile, I suspect that they are working hard at developing their new Rolls Royce Orchestral Library, Abbey Road One - Modular Orchestra.
> 
> ...


I predicted fall 2022 a long time ago. Now I'm not sure that it won't be 2023 before it starts to arrive, and I think the strings almost certainly won't be available until 2023. (I'm guessing by how long it's taken to bring out the AROOF expansion of the main strings.) 

I feel like Colossus, the loose replacement for Iceni, might be first. That likely won't make you happy, since it will almost certainly be an ensemble library.



muziksculp said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it is released before Pacific Strings


And AR modular, when it comes, will certainly have second violins! I won't even have to hallucinate them!


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## Ricgus3 (May 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have noticed that Spitfire Audio has been keeping us entertained with some Freebies, and Originals Libraries, meanwhile, I suspect that they are working hard at developing their new Rolls Royce Orchestral Library, Abbey Road One - Modular Orchestra.
> 
> ...


(One week later arter musiksculp’s message, spitfire made a new post)

“*Hello everyone! We are very excited to see how happy you all have been with our modular ochestra, from orchestral strings such as apassionata, to rumbling brass and basses and glorious trumpets in one of our abbey road selection. All these small pieces has now completed our modular journey. We will now focus on our new challenge; to produce the best saxophone samples ever made, our standards is high but we have a great vision, to make Christian Henson smile while hearing our whispering soprano sax flautandos.

All the best from us”*


_Ps:This is a joke and not real statement from spitfire_


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## Vik (May 4, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> All these small pieces has now completed our modular journey


!


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## muziksculp (May 4, 2022)




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## KEM (May 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>




Does it count if my favorite theme from the Star Wars franchise is Ludwig’s Mando theme?


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## muziksculp (May 4, 2022)

KEM said:


> Does it count if my favorite theme from the Star Wars franchise is Ludwig’s Mando theme?


You have to ask Spitfire about that.


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## sumskilz (May 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have noticed that Spitfire Audio has been keeping us entertained with some Freebies, and Originals Libraries, meanwhile, I suspect that they are working hard at developing their new Rolls Royce Orchestral Library, Abbey Road One - Modular Orchestra.
> 
> ...


Even if you manage to convince yourself that this is true, it won't make them arrive any faster. I've noticed that they haven't released high strings yet for their Abbey Road One: Film Scoring Selections series. It's probably safe to assume that this will come first.


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## cedricm (May 5, 2022)

What's a modular orchestra anyway? An orchestra sold piece by piece like OT?


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## holywilly (May 5, 2022)

Back in the days Spitfire had British Modular Libraries (Sable, Mural, separate brasses…..), my guess the Abbey Road Modular Orchestra will be very similar. 

And all those Modular Orchestra will eventually repackage as one. 

Just my guess.


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## titokane (May 5, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Back in the days Spitfire had British Modular Libraries (Sable, Mural, separate brasses…..), my guess the Abbey Road Modular Orchestra will be very similar.
> 
> And all those Modular Orchestra will eventually repackage as one.
> 
> Just my guess.


Yep, as much as we would all love them to drop sections like ARO Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussion, my guess is it will be a much slower drip release over multiple years, 1 or 2 detailed instruments at a time for around $100-250 each, that eventually Voltron together in 2024 or 2025 into a complete library.


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## Alex Fraser (May 5, 2022)

This thread is going around in an endless loop. 
We need some meat from Spitfire. One tiny show of ankle to keep us going for another 50 pages.


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## PrimeEagle (May 5, 2022)

Is the modular orchestra different from the current Abbey Road One products? Or are those just some of the modules?


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## Evans (May 5, 2022)

PrimeEagle said:


> Is the modular orchestra different from the current Abbey Road One products? Or are those just some of the modules?


Orchestral Foundations and the "Selections" = mostly pre-orchestrated patches

Modular = more like Spitfire Symphony or BBCSO, traditional orchestra sections and solos.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 5, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> This thread is going around in an endless loop.


It'd be handy if we could pin/sticky a few points at the top to prevent people from asking the same questions.


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## muziksculp (May 5, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It'd be handy if we could pin/sticky a few points at the top to prevent people from asking the same questions.


By 'at the top' you mean the opening/first post of this thread ? or ... ?


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## dzilizzi (May 5, 2022)

Too bad they can't pin a post to the bottom.


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## Evans (May 5, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Too bad they can't pin a post to the bottom.


Yes. The longer a thread gets, the less likely - I imagine - that most people will start reading from the first post.


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## Land of Missing Parts (May 5, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> By 'at the top' you mean the opening/first post of this thread ? or ... ?


I just meant at the top of each page in a particular thread.

But @dzilizzi 's idea is better. Pin at the bottom, or whatever is most likely to get someone's attention.


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## muziksculp (May 5, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I just meant at the top of each page in a particular thread.
> 
> But @dzilizzi 's idea is better. Pin at the bottom, or whatever is most likely to get someone's attention.


I will try to add something about what Modular means for this library in the opening post. That's the only way I know of for now, there is no way to pin to last post, unless I keep posting after every new post. Which I'm not going to bother doing.


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## muziksculp (May 5, 2022)

https://vi-control.net/community/th...-modular-orchestra-speculation-thread.112985/


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## Vik (May 5, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>


Do we know that it isn't modular in more ways than this? 'Modular' could be useful in several ways for orchestral libraries:

– There could be ways to buy/add more layers to an existing string library: the base version could eg. contain 4 dynamic layers, but three more layers could be bought as a separate module
– The section sizes could be modular, as discussed in earlier threads: for instance, if the V1s would come in three modules (3 players, 4 players and 5 players) one could build a section with 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 or 12 players
– One could buy one instrument section at a time, eg. only the violas
– There could be a 'More round robins' module


....and so on.


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## muziksculp (May 5, 2022)

Vik said:


> Do we know that it isn't modular in more ways than this? 'Modular' could be useful in several ways for orchestral libraries:
> 
> – There could be ways to buy/add more layers to an existing string library: the base version could eg. contain 4 dynamic layers, but three more layers could be bought as a separate module
> – The section sizes could be modular, as discussed in earlier threads: for instance, if the V1s would come in three modules (3 players, 4 players and 5 players) one could build a section with 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 or 12 players
> ...


No need to complicate things. I don't know the details, but my guess it is what I wrote on the Note. 

Spitfire Audio might have a different take on this, but at least given their track record with BBCSO and the Symphonic Orchestra, I doubt they will be offering them in the kind of detail, and options you mention.


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## Vik (May 5, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> No need to complicate things.


Sure, and/but a new library along the lines of. eg SSS would be disappointing since they said eg that "The Modular Orchestra is the most detailed orchestral project we have ever undertaken. Not only in the breadth and depth of its sampling but in new R&D techniques to capture incredible performances that help us make the most musical-sounding orchestral samples ever".
A truly detailed library would need a lot more samples/layers than what they have released so far, and would therefore be hard to sell to enough people unless it was sold in pieces – in a hopefully more user controllable way than we had with Sable and Mural (SCS/SSS).


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## titokane (May 5, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> No need to complicate things. I don't know the details, but my guess it is what I wrote on the Note.
> 
> Spitfire Audio might have a different take on this, but at least given their track record with BBCSO and the Symphonic Orchestra, I doubt they will be offering them in the kind of detail, and options you mention.


I think the British Modular Library might be closer to what they're planning (though I really hope it's not). Spitfire Sable was released for BML as 5 different volumes (for a grand total of £1495) before being eventually consolidated into Spitfire Chamber Strings:

• Vol 1 (£399) – First violins & cellos, essential articulations
• Vol 2 (£399) – Second violins, violas, basses, essential articulations 
• Vol 3 (£299) – All sections, extended articulations 
• Vol 4 (£149) – All sections, more extended articulations
• Vol 5 (£249) – Ensembles 

Personally I hope they skip the "BLM" phase and go straight to the "SSO" phase... but I think they're dropping hints by calling it the Modular Orchestra and testing the water with the ARO Film Scoring Selections.


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## muziksculp (May 5, 2022)

titokane said:


> I think the British Modular Library might be closer to what they're planning (though I really hope it's not). Spitfire Sable was released for BML as 5 different volumes (for a grand total of £1495) before being eventually consolidated into Spitfire Chamber Strings:
> 
> • Vol 1 (£399) – First violins & cellos, essential articulations
> • Vol 2 (£399) – Second violins, violas, basses, essential articulations
> ...


Maybe, we don't know, anything is possible if they find it makes sense to their Business model, so ... It's all speculation at this point. 

We will know when they announce it.


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## Alex Fraser (May 5, 2022)

titokane said:


> I think the British Modular Library might be closer to what they're planning (though I really hope it's not). Spitfire Sable was released for BML as 5 different volumes (for a grand total of £1495) before being eventually consolidated into Spitfire Chamber Strings:
> 
> • Vol 1 (£399) – First violins & cellos, essential articulations
> • Vol 2 (£399) – Second violins, violas, basses, essential articulations
> ...


I think I agree with you.

Spitfire have been focusing on the "lower end" of the market with cheaper price points. Originals and all that, but even the Abbey Road 2 Strings and Appassionata haven't been at Spitfire OG pricing levels. 

Having built up this customer base, I'd be surprised if Spitfire dropped a new library into kidney sale territory. Suggests to me that if the Modular is deep sampled, then they might break it up into smaller parts to make it affordable and palatable to those who are used to BBCSO Core levels of cost etc.

Now I've said this, they're gonna drop a single £1500 string library next week, aren't they?


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## Vik (May 5, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Suggests to me that if the Modular is deep sampled, then they might break it up into smaller parts to make it affordable and palatable to those who are used to BBCSO Core levels of cost etc


Yes. And for a company that doesn’t offer neither resales, refunds or trial subscriptions, being able to buy only one section (which they somehow did with Sable) would be a useful way for users to try it – unless, of course, the prices for single sections/modules would be much higher than the normal price pr. section. 

One day they’ll all copy what regular instrument stores do, and let us buy a cello for a normal price without also buying a v1/v2/vc/cb.


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## jbuhler (May 5, 2022)

Vik said:


> Yes. And for a company that doesn’t offer neither resales, refunds or trial subscriptions, being able to buy only one section (which they somehow did with Sable) would be a useful way for users to try it – unless, of course, the prices for single sections/modules would be much higher than the normal price pr. section.
> 
> One day they’ll all copy what regular instrument stores do, and let us buy a cello for a normal price without also buying a v1/v2/vc/cb.


Maybe, but if they do prices will be generally higher and we’ll see even more regression to the mean in terms of available articulations. That is, the common articulations will be cheap and readily available but additional capability will be increasingly scarce and costly. And so we’ll still have plenty to bitch about and we’ll wonder why companies don’t just consolidate their libraries to offer a more comprehensive set of articulations rather than offering all these niche articulations at such high cost.


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## Vik (May 6, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Maybe, but if they do prices will be generally higher and we’ll see even more regression to the mean in terms of available articulations.



Or we'll see the opposite, since users to a larger extent (with a more modular concept) will be able to pay for only what they need. Sable was such a concept, and Sable coming in five different modules didn't seem to prevent people from buying into it. The prices were higher back then, but after CSS popped up and set a new standard for what you can get for $399, the prices general went down in other companies as well. SCS costs $300 more than CSS, but lots of us have SCS. 

CSS, btw, is a good example of what can be done without a modular concept. The same seems to be true for Spitfire Appassionata – nevertheless, it would be great if SAS at some point would come with an extra module with two more dyn. layers.



> we’ll still have plenty to bitch about and we’ll wonder why companies don’t just consolidate their libraries to offer a more comprehensive set of articulations rather than offering all these niche articulations at such high cost.



Sable was a lot more modular than SCS, since one would buy it in five portions, and don't forget that one good solution doesn't eliminate the usefulness of another: The beauty of a good modular system is that one could make products (or core version)s like CSS based on the samples that are used in the expandable modular concept.

The problem with a not so modular system is that many keep buying new libraries, maybe from other companies, because some artics/functions are missing (like true con sords or dedicated vibrato control). And every time someone buys another string library – which they may have to do, since not so many companies offer users to buy only the cellos – they may be wasting a lot more money (and download time / storage space + there will be more libraries to learn, troubleshoot and update). 4/3/3/3/3 is brilliant, but Appassionata's 8/6/6/6/4 is IMO brilliant-er.
Another side effect of having to buy another library to get some functions or artics/layers is that one often needs to work on making these libraries sound as one library orchestra.

Both SCS and SSS are still modular, btw, since those who want more mic options can buy more mics as an add-on module. I'm one of those who happen to like that kind of modularity – all some of us want is only more of it!_  _


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## Alex Fraser (May 6, 2022)

I wonder if AROOF shows how this "modular thing" might work?

Example: "*Abbey Road Strings"* is the "base" library with the standard articulations included.
Then "add-ons" (selections) are sliced up in terms of articulations. *"Abbey Road Strings: Decorative Techniques*" for example. Or volume 1, 2 if you prefer.

In someways, it's a tricky choice. Spitfire probably have to "module-arize" either via microphone signals or articulations to avoid a Frankenstein of options, further complicated by upgrade paths etc. 

The existing product lines show that they've been experimenting with both ways. I'm betting Abbey Road does it along articulation lines, like AROOF.


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## Laurin Lenschow (May 6, 2022)

My guess is there will be two modules per orchestral section - a standard module and a "professional" one. The standard module will have the standard articulations and a couple of mic signals, the "professional" version will bring more instruments (e.g. Bass Clarinet and Contra Bassoon for WWs, perhaps divisi sections for strings etc), more articulations (e.g. CS legato) and more mic signals.

My prediction is that the first module will be released this fall, shortly after the last AROOF expansion is out.


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## Mike Stone (May 6, 2022)

I'm probably gonna wait a year or so before buying into this thing. I just bought a bunch of Spitfire libraries, and quite frankly I'm exhausted from hours and hours of sending bug reports with pictures and audio files etc., for issues that should have been detected by the most cursory QC. You just don't know what you're going to get before having spent the money, and downloaded the library. Both Appassionata (still missing a proper "passionate" ff/fff-layer IMO) and AROOF were very polished from the initial release, other libraries not so much...


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## jbuhler (May 6, 2022)

Vik said:


> Or we'll see the opposite, since users to a larger extent (with a more modular concept) will be able to pay for only what they need. Sable was such a concept, and Sable coming in five different modules didn't seem to prevent people from buying into it. The prices were higher back then, but after CSS popped up and set a new standard for what you can get for $399, the prices general went down in other companies as well. SCS costs $300 more than CSS, but lots of us have SCS.
> 
> CSS, btw, is a good example of what can be done without a modular concept. The same seems to be true for Spitfire Appassionata – nevertheless, it would be great if SAS at some point would come with an extra module with two more dyn. layers.
> 
> ...


If they don’t expect to sell as many copies the price will have to go up to produce the same revenues. Anything that collectively means we are spending less money on instruments means a contraction of the market. They can certainly effectively modularize but the individual modules will collectively be priced higher than the bundle for that reason. But I don’t see them ever selling fully on the model of physical instruments so long as they are selling sets of articulations because the nature of the product is just so different.


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## jbuhler (May 6, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> I wonder if AROOF shows how this "modular thing" might work?
> 
> Example: "*Abbey Road Strings"* is the "base" library with the standard articulations included.
> Then "add-ons" (selections) are sliced up in terms of articulations. *"Abbey Road Strings: Decorative Techniques*" for example. Or volume 1, 2 if you prefer.
> ...


The more niche the extension the more expensive relatively speaking it is likely to be if they follow this route. I can also see a situation where the more esoteric extensions never get made, as was the case with BML where they abandoned the modular project long before it was complete and consolidated it into SSO (which is why some instruments remain quite rudimentary in their current form). But then Abbey Road Modular Orchestra is also going to be a bit of a peculiar product in the sense that its primary function is to burnish the SF brand not to sell lots of copies. It may well do the latter as well, but its value to SF will be in how it establishes a standard of excellence for not in whether it turns a profit. So that means its design and how it is presented to the market might look quite different than usual.


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## holywilly (May 6, 2022)

I’m predicting:
Abbey Road ONE: Classic Edition
Abbey Road ONE: Marvel Edition
Abbey Road ONE: Solo Edition

Classic edition contains essential set of articulations for film scoring, and where Marvel edition have extended decorative articulations. Solo edition is just first chairs, principal of instrument sections.


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## Alex Fraser (May 6, 2022)

If anyone is counting, a quick check reveals that this project was announced in _October 2020._
That's over a year and a half without another morsel. This really is looking like a long term project...
(Sorry, @muziksculp)

Can anyone remember if they'd announced recording had begun?


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## jbuhler (May 6, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> If anyone is counting, a quick check reveals that this project was announced in _October 2020._
> That's over a year and a half without another morsel. This really is looking like a long term project...
> (Sorry, @muziksculp)
> 
> Can anyone remember if they'd announced recording had begun?


My recollection is that they started recording and then Covid hit and it took time for things to get restarted. I also heard rumors that Abbey Road has been heavily booked since Covid restrictions lifted and so SF has been having difficulty getting the blocks of time they need. But these are all rumors and just chatter from the internet so completely unreliable. Maybe others have real information... 

SF also implied that AROOF and its extensions would be completed before they started releasing the modular library, and they implied this was because they were working out a lot of the methodology for the modular library on AROOF and the extensions. I remember that when it was announced I wasn't expecting the first modular libraries to be released until Fall 2022, and given the slow rate at which the AROOF expansions are coming out, I'm now thinking we won't see the first modules until Spring 2023.


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## Frederick (May 6, 2022)

Well, it seems to me that the most likely way for Spitfire to release the modular orchestra is to bring all four sections separately in both a core and professional edition. My guess is that if they would have wanted to release it in smaller parts, then they probably could have released some parts already.

Of course, my underlying analogy to the Studio Orchestra and BHCT fails, because BHCT is sort of an Abbey Road One Foundations & Selections, but BHCT was released as one library. Maybe it's that I also don't get the Orchestral Tools a la carte option - who would want to pay relatively a lot per instrument/section? Who would want only the Violas and not the Celli? I never get that. So, my guess is per section releases.

I'm not likely to buy it either way though, due to owning exactly the right number of libraries already and due to the fact that I don't believe in game changers. As in: Is there really so much difference between SSO vs BBCSO, besides SSO being sampled more deeply? Or between VSL's very old VI samples and the most recent Synchron recorded libraries? I also find it hard to believe that Spitfire is now going to be the best legato company all of a sudden. Or the one with the most consistent samples. Sure the most recent releases seem to be better, but the best?


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## Alex Fraser (May 6, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I remember that when it was announced I wasn't expecting the first modular libraries to be released until Fall 2022, and given the slow rate at which the AROOF expansions are coming out, I'm now thinking we won't see the first modules until Spring 2023.


Sure. Also, I'd imagine that they'd want a certain amount of sampling "in the bag" before starting to release the products, even if coding is yet to take place for unreleased stuff.



jbuhler said:


> I also heard rumors that Abbey Road has been heavily booked since Covid restrictions lifted and so SF has been having difficulty getting the blocks of time they need



Yep. My Twitter is full of composers posting "from Abbey Road." Also spoke to a dub guy this week to find out if a file delivery had been made...only to find he was currently being served multiple rounds of coffee at...Abbey Road. Sure didn't sound like he was recording samples at the time..


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## jbuhler (May 6, 2022)

Frederick said:


> Well, it seems to me that the most likely way for Spitfire to release the modular orchestra is to bring all four sections separately in both a core and professional edition. My guess is that if they would have wanted to release it in smaller parts, then they probably could have released some parts already.


I suspect it will be more modular than this, closer to the model of BML, which sold flutes, reeds, trumpets, etc. for instance, separately and with different volumes of articulations. And then I'm expecting various bundles: strings, brass, winds, and percussion. And then an everything bundle. How pro and core mics might be worked into that I'm not sure, but they've been moving toward having pro level defined by more than additional mics, and I expect that to continue. I think the delay has been due to Covid affecting the recording schedule, wanting to get AROOF expansions out first so the new modules have AROOF to hang on until the full modular library is done, and R&D on legato and how best to manage all the dynamic layers these instruments will have.


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## Mike Stone (May 6, 2022)

Frederick said:


> Of course, my underlying analogy to the Studio Orchestra and BHCT fails, because BHCT is sort of an Abbey Road One Foundations & Selections, but BHCT was released as one library. Maybe it's that I also don't get the Orchestral Tools a la carte option - who would want to pay relatively a lot per instrument/section? Who would want only the Violas and not the Celli? I never get that. So, my guess is per section releases.


Why was BHCT a "fail"? Seems like one of Spitfire's better efforts to me, and it has a lot more content than their usual library releases, with few bugs/issues afaik.


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## Frederick (May 6, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Why was BHCT a "fail"? Seems like one of Spitfire's better efforts to me, and it has a lot more content than their usual library releases, with few bugs/issues afaik.


BHCT is a great library. It's my analogy between Spitfire's Air Studio One recorded libraries (of which BHCT is one) and Abbey Road One libraries that has already failed, before any part of the modular orchestra is released, because BHCT was a single release where the AROOF + Selections were many already.


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## Alex Fraser (May 6, 2022)

Simplest way to split into modular would be by instrument alone.
Violins I, Flutes, Solo Trumpet etc with a core/pro split via microphones only.

That would be advantageous for those of us who like to set up articulation maps (no split products) and might be the best "fit" for the current SF player tech.

Thing is, the more "snack size" you go with the modular concept, more gotchas pile up with questions over how (or if) you split the mics, upgrade paths etc. Difficult to see _"Spitfire Abbey Road Violins I Decorative Techniques Core Edition"_ etc being a thing.


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## Frederick (May 6, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I suspect it will be more modular than this, closer to the model of BML, which sold flutes, reeds, trumpets, etc. for instance, separately and with different volumes of articulations. And then I'm expecting various bundles: strings, brass, winds, and percussion. And then an everything bundle.


But would it really sell during those initial phases? Everyone knows that the bundles will be cheaper. 25% off introduction price at release for say a relative more expensive Flutes only library, or 25% discount at release for all the woodwinds? In the latter case the logic goes 25% now or 40% off later (or 50% off much later). "Okay, but I get them at least a year earlier and that's worth something, and I want them now." That works. However paying 25% off at introduction of an already inflated price because it's not bundled at all, wouldn't that feel like paying full price compared to the whole section price? Also, having just the flutes is nowhere near as useful to most as having the whole section...

By the way: I'm probably one of the few people that bought all the ARO Selections close to introduction. I felt already stupid when they started selling ARO: The Collection (34 Euro instead of 49 Euro per individual selection)


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## prodigalson (May 6, 2022)

I think this is wishful thinking. I predict 4 volumes by orchestral choir with core and professional entry points.


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## Vik (May 6, 2022)

Frederick said:


> Maybe it's that I also don't get the Orchestral Tools a la carte option - who would want to pay relatively a lot per instrument/section? Who would want only the Violas and not the Celli? I never get that.


OT, Performance Samples, 8dio and Spitfire have all sold each of the section as separate products. Here are some of the reasons why someone would want that (I've done that with several companies already):

– They want to try one of the instruments before investing in the full package

– Someone really wants only the cello from OT Symphonic Strings, because they are differernt or better than what they have already

– For a special piece you need a bass section with a different character than what you have already

– You're happy with SCS, but want violons from another library to make SCS sound bigger

– You have great versions of all fine string section, but your string library doesn't have the kind of ensemble patches you want to use when writing, so you'll buy that from someone else

– You like most of the libraries you have, but are interested in another library just for two of the instruments

....and so on.

Re. the price, I don't know what SF are planning, but just like 'rent-to-buy', 'buy-to-buy' should also be possible: once you have paid the full price of the library (eg. because you have bought 3-4 of the instruments), you should be able to download the others for 'free'. I think some companies do that already (and some take a small fee if you buy in several portions instead of one).


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## MauroPantin (May 6, 2022)

I love the idea of instruments a la carte, but I don't see it happening. Everything from a consumer POV makes sense, Vik has mentioned many if not all of the advantages. But, from the Spitfire side of things, they are the ONLY ones with access to Abbey Road, so if you want to get "That Sound™" you have to go through them. Why would they sell just the Cello when they can make you purchase the entire string section? They just have to make the FOMO strong enough, and AROOF sounds fantastic, so that is not hard to do.


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## Cormast (Jul 8, 2022)

Anyone has any new thin clue about a potential release date ? And, wrong thread, but I'm hoping the BBC instance will be optimized at the same time, that would be wonderfull !


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## Laurin Lenschow (Jul 8, 2022)

Cormast said:


> Anyone has any new thin clue about a potential release date ?


There is no official information out yet, but the general consensus seems to be that the first module might drop around Black Friday. It could be delayed due to covid though.


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## RogiervG (Jul 9, 2022)

Cormast said:


> Anyone has any new thin clue about a potential release date ? And, wrong thread, but I'm hoping the BBC instance will be optimized at the same time, that would be wonderfull !


nobody knows, unless you work at spitfire audio.
might be this summer or winter, or next year, or .....
also it's not known if it will be like sso-ish, thus every section as a module (strings, brass, winds, perc, etc), or that you buy instruments/ensembles seperately (truely modular) a la carte.


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## muziksculp (Jul 9, 2022)

We don't know anything about it yet, but we can speculate, and guess. 

i.e. one of my guesses is that it will be released when the whole AR-1 Modular Orchestra is completed, and not while the modules are being developed, even if one of the modules is completed, it won't be released alone.


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## jbuhler (Jul 9, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> We don't know anything about it yet, but we can speculate, and guess.
> 
> i.e. one of my guesses is that it will be released when the whole AR-1 Modular Orchestra is completed, and not while the modules are being developed, even if one of the modules is completed, it won't be released alone.


My guess is that it will be quite modular, broken down for sale at least to level of instrument much like BML was, and that they will be released on something like a monthly or six week basis, in any case hopefully faster and more regularly than has been the case with the AROOF selections. I expect we’ll see start seeing them in the spring though there’s s chance we might see a few in the fall to try to catch a little attention before the BF and end of year sales kick in full throttle. 

I also expect there will be bundled sections (strings, woodwinds, brass and percussion and maybe some auxiliaries like OT’s Berlin series has) and a bundle for the full thing. The reason I think it will be very modular is to keep the price of individual libraries low. The reason I think it will be released on something like a monthly basis rather than all at once is so they can withhold the strings and make @muziksculp very sad indeed but also so they have time to do better quality control on each library and so folks don’t have to come up with $2000, $3000, $4000 or more all at one time. (And I still think it’s far more likely to cost more than $4000 than less than $2000.)


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## muziksculp (Jul 9, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> My guess is that it will be quite modular, broken down for sale at least to level of instrument much like BML was, and that they will be released on something like a monthly or six week basis, in any case hopefully faster and more regularly than has been the case with the AROOF selections. I expect we’ll see start seeing them in the spring though there’s s chance we might see a few in the fall to try to catch a little attention before the BF and end of year sales kick in full throttle.
> 
> I also expect there will be bundled sections (strings, woodwinds, brass and percussion and maybe some auxiliaries like OT’s Berlin series has) and a bundle for the full thing. The reason I think it will be very modular is to keep the price of individual libraries low. The reason I think it will be released on something like a monthly basis rather than all at once is so they can withhold the strings and make @muziksculp very sad indeed but also so they have time to do better quality control on each library and so folks don’t have to come up with $2000, $3000, $4000 or more all at one time. (And I still think it’s far more likely to cost more than $4000 than less than $2000.)


I wouldn't bother buying any of the AR-1 Modules separately, if only i.e. the Brass Module is available. makes no sense to me, if I want to emulate an orchestra playing in AR-1, why would I bother buying the Brass Module, just to wait for the Strings, or Winds, .. ? 

I think it makes a lot more sense to buy the whole thing in modules when they are all available, if it is a matter of affordability, you can still buy one of the modules, until you can afford more. But to I wouldn't spend my $$ on a module, and wait for the next one to be released, without any idea how long the next module will take to be released, 3 months ? 5 months ? a year ? ... ? No Thanks.


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## jbuhler (Jul 9, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I wouldn't bother buying any of the AR-1 Modules separately, if only i.e. the Brass Moduleis available. makes no sense to me, if I want to emulate an orchestra playing in AR-1, why would I bother buying the Brass Module, just to wait for the Strings, or Winds, .. ?
> 
> I think it makes a lot more sense to buy the whole thing in modules when they are all available, if it is a matter of affordability, you can still buy one of the modules, until you can afford more. But to I wouldn't spend my $$ on a module, and wait for the next one to be released, without any idea how long the next module will take to be released, 3 months ? 5 months ? a year ? ... ? No Thanks.


I’m imagining 9 months to a year. But who knows. I could easily imagine a release plan that is 18 months. Hopefully faster than it took to get the AROOF selections out. (And we’re still waiting for at least one more of those.) But I think the AROOF selections was in a sense a trial run for the modular release. 

If you have AROOF, the idea would be that you add the AR-1 modular libraries for detail until the full library is out. That’s indeed how BML was released and hung on Albion 1, which served as the foundation library for BML (which was then spun off to become SSO). I think it makes more sense to do it that way than what they tried with BBCSO, and AR-1 will be a far more complex library if only because it will have far more dynamic layers, likely more instruments, and (I hope) more articulations (especially a wide selection of shorts across all instruments). And all that complexity pretty much ensures that it will have issues that will need to be addressed. It’s easier to deal with those with a series of smaller libraries with releases spread out over time.


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## muziksculp (Jul 10, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I’m imagining 9 months to a year. But who knows. I could easily imagine a release plan that is 18 months. Hopefully faster than it took to get the AROOF selections out. (And we’re still waiting for at least one more of those.) But I think the AROOF selections was in a sense a trial run for the modular release.
> 
> If you have AROOF, the idea would be that you add the AR-1 modular libraries for detail until the full library is out. That’s indeed how BML was released and hung on Albion 1, which served as the foundation library for BML (which was then spun off to become SSO). I think it makes more sense to do it that way than what they tried with BBCSO, and AR-1 will be a far more complex library if only because it will have far more dynamic layers, likely more instruments, and (I hope) more articulations (especially a wide selection of shorts across all instruments). And all that complexity pretty much ensures that it will have issues that will need to be addressed. It’s easier to deal with those with a series of smaller libraries with releases spread out over time.


I would most likely keep my wallet very happy, until the entire AR1 Modular Orchestra is released. I have lots of options while it's in construction.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 10, 2022)

I suspect it'll be split over multiple releases. Even if it's all complete and nestled in the Spitfire vaults, it would make sense to release it in sections. More noise, more impact, more "I'm very excited" etc etc

Cynical me.


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## prodigalson (Jul 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I have lots of options while it's in construction.


Yes you’re known for your patience and willingness to just work with the tools you have…


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## ridgero (Jul 10, 2022)

2 years after the initial release of AROOF would make perfect sense.


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## Reznov981 (Jul 11, 2022)

ridgero said:


> 2 years after the initial release of AROOF would make perfect sense.


Everytime someone says AROOF and also because it's all in caps, I just picture a large dog, or maybe a wolf, crying out. Is that just me?


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## Loerpert (Jul 11, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Everytime someone says AROOF and also because it's all in caps, I just picture a large dog, or maybe a wolf, crying out. Is that just me?


I just think of a roof


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## ridgero (Jul 15, 2022)

July 21 / 5 PM

Finally? 😍


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## mybadmemory (Jul 15, 2022)

ridgero said:


> July 21 / 5 PM
> 
> Finally? 😍


Not before the last film scoring selection is out!


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## jbuhler (Jul 15, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> Not before the last film scoring selection is out!


I would think that too. It might be the Iceni replacement library, Colossus or whatever they decide to call it.


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## Loerpert (Jul 15, 2022)

ridgero said:


> July 21 / 5 PM
> 
> Finally? 😍


I doubt it. I think they will be throwing around teasers months before the official announcement.


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## daviddln (Jul 15, 2022)

ridgero said:


> July 21 / 5 PM
> 
> Finally? 😍


Well, as they say it's their most anticipated library to date, it could be ARO Modular Orchestra. Next week will be a great week with new libraries from VSL and Spitfire Audio.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 15, 2022)

ridgero said:


> July 21 / 5 PM
> 
> Finally? 😍


Quick Google dive: The chairs at Abbey Road One are red. These are blue, like the ones at Air.
Hardly conclusive proof either way, but I'm not slamming down on the bat signal yet?
_(leaves the room to a chorus of boos)_


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## Loerpert (Jul 15, 2022)

daviddln said:


> Well, as they say it's their most anticipated library to date, it could be ARO Modular Orchestra. Next week will be a great week with new libraries from VSL and Spitfire Audio.


Those words don't really mean much from SFA if I'm being honest.. I mean I would love to be proven wrong.


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## muziksculp (Jul 15, 2022)

I know that @jbuhler won't be happy if it turns out to be AR1 Modular Orch. So, let's hope its something else


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## Gerbil (Jul 15, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Quick Google dive: The chairs at Abbey Road One are red. These are blue, like the ones at Air.
> Hardly conclusive proof either way, but I'm not slamming down on the bat signal yet?
> _(leaves the room to a chorus of boos)_


So its Appassionata Tubas then.


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## ridgero (Jul 15, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Quick Google dive: The chairs at Abbey Road One are red. These are blue, like the ones at Air.
> Hardly conclusive proof either way, but I'm not slamming down on the bat signal yet?
> _(leaves the room to a chorus of boos)_



You are right about the colours!

The chairs in Air Studios are blue but have a differen shape.

My guess is LCO or BBC


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## daviddln (Jul 15, 2022)

ridgero said:


> You are right about the colours!
> 
> The chairs in Air Studios are blue but have a differen shape.
> 
> My guess is LCO or BBC


Oh yes, it could be the BBC piano Christian talked about a few months ago.


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## RogiervG (Jul 15, 2022)

daviddln said:


> Oh yes, it could be the BBC piano Christian talked about a few months ago.







Maida Vale studios chairs... is the left one with the 2 back holders (or how you call it) the same chair?
The one on the right has just one in the middle.


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## jbuhler (Jul 15, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I know that @jbuhler won't be happy if it turns out to be AR1 Modular Orch. So, let's hope its something else


I won't mind if it is part of the modular (or indeed the whole thing). But I would be most surprised. As I mentioned elsewhere (or maybe upthread). I think it's Colossus, the Iceni replacement.


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## mussnig (Jul 15, 2022)

Some BBCSO stuff would make sense, considering that they made Discover available for free now.


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## jbuhler (Jul 15, 2022)

mussnig said:


> Some BBCSO stuff would make sense, considering that they made Discover available for free now.


I agree with that this makes a good deal sense with the timing of the Discover change, but it's hard to square with how this announcement is framed as a premiere rather than an announcement. Unless it's a complete overhaul of BBCSO (BBCSO 2.0: expanded instrumentation and the missing dynamic layers).


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## Bereckis (Jul 15, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I won't mind if it is part of the modular (or indeed the whole thing). But I would be most surprised. As I mentioned elsewhere (or maybe upthread). I think it's Colossus, the Iceni replacement.


Will Colossus be in the Albion series (NI contact)?


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## Niv Schrieber (Jul 15, 2022)

If it is albion colossus I wonder what it's concept will be. Is it for loud and "epic" stuff or as other mentioned here a replacement for iceni that focuses on the low end of the orchestra again? Interesting


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## Spid (Jul 15, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Quick Google dive: The chairs at Abbey Road One are red. These are blue, like the ones at Air.


Damn! Everyone knows the Red chairs are faster... 🏎


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## jbuhler (Jul 15, 2022)

Bereckis said:


> Will Colossus be in the Albion series (NI contact)?


Conceptually, I think it will be Albion Series. But whether it will be a Kontakt library is hard to say. I doubt it but I was surprised solstice was made as a Kontakt library, so who knows?



Niv Schrieber said:


> If it is albion colossus I wonder what it's concept will be. Is it for loud and epic stuff or as other mentioned here a replacement for iceni that focuses on the low end of the orchestra again? Interesting


Given its title, I think big rather than low per se.


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## muziksculp (Jul 15, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Unless it's a complete overhaul of BBCSO (BBCSO 2.0: expanded instrumentation and the missing dynamic layers).


Yeah.. I would love that to happen. But I doubt that's what it is. We shall know when it's released on Thursday, the 21st.


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## ridgero (Jul 15, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Conceptually, I think it will be Albion Series. But whether it will be a Kontakt library is hard to say. I doubt it but I was surprised solstice was made as a Kontakt library, so who knows?
> 
> 
> Given its title, I think big rather than low per se.


Albion BBC? 🤣


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## ka00 (Jul 15, 2022)

Hans Zimmer Brass?


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## Jackal_King (Jul 15, 2022)

Appassionata Woodwinds?


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## prodigalson (Jul 15, 2022)

Despite feeling a certain amount of shame for running off to google "studio chairs" (Spitfire Audio must be spitting out their peronis in laughter at us), I do think its an AIR Lyndhurst library if by just going off the chairs alone.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 15, 2022)

prodigalson said:


> Despite feeling a certain amount of shame for running off to google "studio chairs" (Spitfire Audio must be spitting out their peronis in laughter at us), I do think its an AIR Lyndhurst library if by just going off the chairs alone.


I….know the feeling.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 15, 2022)

ka00 said:


> Hans Zimmer Brass?


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## RogiervG (Jul 15, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


>


it's funny because it's (in most times) true


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## Ricgus3 (Jul 15, 2022)

Maybe first originals remade from Iceni? Cello and basses. Or monster low woods


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## loesking (Jul 15, 2022)

I don't think they would write "most anticipated" for an Originals Library.


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## pawelmorytko (Jul 15, 2022)

loesking said:


> I don't think they would write "most anticipated" for an Originals Library.


Yep, but their "most anticipated library to date" that people know are in the works and are indeed eagerly anticipating would be the AR Modular Orchestra, which I highly doubt is ready yet, unless maybe one section might be ready (still doubt it). In which case the slogan is just there for marketing and nothing else, maybe a new Albion or BBCSO content would be my guess.


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## RogiervG (Jul 15, 2022)

loesking said:


> I don't think they would write "most anticipated" for an Originals Library.


They have played with these type of statements before, for a not so most <fill in the statement words> library in terms of what they made you believe it would be. (e.g. with origins series they have done it, and some niche ones too)
Most bigger libraries (in terms of important chapters in their catalog), often have intro videos in advance (announcements: e.g. new AR series roadmap/Foundation launch) or hyping months in advance (BBC SO e.g.). Not just a week in advance picture like they mostly do with originals series.
But who knows, maybe, just maybe, they have listened to people on the net, not liking the former " very early announcements" for bigger libs.. and they just drop the lib, with just an announcement a week in advance. (only, speaking for myself, can hope)
Still.. why the secrecy, about WHAT it is with these announcements? that part i still don't get. I mean, there is a huge chance people get all hyped, thinking/guessing it will be X or Y, to be disappointed with the actual product launch (being Z). I know i have been several times now.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 15, 2022)

Quote : " Premieres Jul 21, 2022 Join us for the launch of our *most anticipated library to date*; plus tune in live for a chance to win the library! "

So, their most anticipated library to date, would mean we know about it, and it is a launch, so meaning a new library, not an update/upgrade to an existing library.

For me, AR1-Modular Orchestra is their most anticipated library to date, can't think of another one that is more anticipated than this one. A BBCSO add on is a possibility, and would be great, but it doesn't fit the description of 'Most Anticipated Library to date' , and it surely is not a Piano, that would be totally out of line with the description. Is there another most anticipated library from Spitfire Audio we are waiting for, and know about at this time, I don't think so.


----------



## Gauss (Jul 15, 2022)

It has to be Hans Zimmer Woodwinds!


----------



## jcrosby (Jul 15, 2022)

ka00 said:


> Hans Zimmer Brass?


I WISH!


----------



## Alex Fraser (Jul 15, 2022)

I..dunno. Those red chairs in Abbey Road are a large part of the studio identity. Would be a hard miss to get that wrong in the marketing.

Actually think Zimmer Brass could be more than a VIC meme. It’s in the mix I think.


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## tonio_ (Jul 15, 2022)

Gonna be Abbey Road high strings legato me thinks

Chairs are there to mislead us


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## Bman70 (Jul 15, 2022)

I see red square chairs, and blue oval chairs.


----------



## RogiervG (Jul 15, 2022)

Bman70 said:


> I see red square chairs, and blue oval chairs.


those blue ones seems higher too, with a weird downward curve/slope near the crotch area.. i wonder what type of instrument needs that type of chair for the player. . also the announcement pic is a a lower model, like the red ones and no slope


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 15, 2022)

I think we need to take the ratio of blue to red chairs across both studios, spreadsheet the s**t out of it, cross reference with the headphones also in the promo picture, then come to a conclusion, albeit with confidence intervals.


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## Sean Linge (Jul 15, 2022)

I don't know, it looks a lot like AIR to me...







Similarities not just in regards to the chairs' color, but the floor's color as well. Perhaps a tint darker than the floor in Abbey Road. 🤔

The plot thickens.


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## ka00 (Jul 15, 2022)

If it’s not an Arbee’s Roast One Originals modular sandwich, then I’m EOLing their whole catalogue.


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## muziksculp (Jul 15, 2022)

Many detectives here.


----------



## reids (Jul 15, 2022)

+5 from me for HZ Brass.

Users have been waiting and wanting an HZ Brass library recorded at AIR Studios long before Abbey Road series was even announced. This would be the most anticipated library to date and will have all the extra attention to go with the name. It is the MISSING link. We have HZ Strings, HZ Percussion, but NO HZ Brass? That would be a sin! Now make it happen @Spitfire Team. HZ BRASSsssss..........!!! I want them horns to rip the roof off!!! FFF!!!!!!!! Full Fu****g Force!!!!! LOUD!!!!!! 🎺📯🔊📢 = 

Hz!! Hz!!! Hz!!! Hz!! 

Come on...join in! Hz!!! Hz!!! Hz!!! HZ Brass!! 

Give the people what they want!!


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## Trash Panda (Jul 15, 2022)

reids said:


> Now make it happen @Spitfire Team. HZ BRASSsssss..........!!! I want them horns to rip the roof off!!! FFF!!!!!!!! Full Fu****g Force!!!!! LOUD!!!!!! 🎺📯🔊📢 =
> 
> Hz!! Hz!!! Hz!!! Hz!!
> 
> ...


Spitfire make brass with power and an aggressive edge capable of blowing the roof off? Have you considered a future in stand up comedy? I see some potential.


----------



## reids (Jul 15, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Spitfire make brass with power and an aggressive edge capable of blowing the roof off? Have you considered a future in stand up comedy? I see some potential.


Let me indulge in this dream for just a bit!! Lol! Anyway......... we are still anticipating it. "From the edge of silence to the edge of going deaf" should be your marketing quote for this HZ Brass library @Spitfire Team. Do it! Do it! Do it!!


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## muziksculp (Jul 15, 2022)

@reids ,

imho. The BBCSO Pro Brass sounds wonderful, and are very tasteful. Anything more than that sounds annoying, vulgar, and kind of just screaming for attention in an ugly manner to my ears. I can surely do without 50 trumpets 45 French Horns, 30 Trombones, and 25 Tubas. Blasting my ears out.


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## reids (Jul 15, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> @reids ,
> 
> imho. The BBCSO Pro Brass sounds wonderful, and are very tasteful. Anything more than that sounds annoying, vulgar, and kind of just screaming for attention in an ugly manner to my ears. I can surely do without 50 trumpets 45 French Horns, 30 Trombones, and 25 Tubas. Blasting my ears out.


But we all know you'd buy it anyway after the Spitfire marketing massive reveal, full walkthroughs of his powerful brass ensembles, and user covers and mockups of his works using this library. You know you would, that's the power and influence of Hz.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 16, 2022)

All jokes aside, if there was a “most anticipated” library - and putting AR Modular to one side - HZ brass would be it.


----------



## RogiervG (Jul 16, 2022)

what i find strange is that for a "most anticipated library to date", there is 0 marketing fanfare on their social media (Fb, Insta, Twitter), not even on their website.


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## Reznov981 (Jul 16, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> what i find strange is that for a "most anticipated library to date", there is 0 marketing fanfare on their social media (Fb, Insta, Twitter), not even on their website.


This was my thought too. I imagine then that this upcoming video is just an announcement, which would make more sense of the lack of social media posting about it - this video will be the first declaration of whatever it is.

Of course, I would love to video to be a release itself.


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## reids (Jul 16, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> All jokes aside, if there was a “most anticipated” library - and putting AR Modular to one side - HZ brass would be it.


Thank you and I 100% agree with you on HZ Brass. Real talk! BIG brass and a BIG high five to you, Alex!!


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## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2022)

I think when it comes to BIG HZ Brass... You only need three patches :

Hi BRAMS, Mid BRAMS, and Low BRAMS.


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## Saxer (Jul 16, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi BRAMS, Mid BRAMS, and Low BRAMS.


At the edge of silence.


----------



## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Jul 16, 2022)

I'm personally thinking it will be a choir library. For months now spitfire has been putting eye emojis on Instagram comments requesting a new choir library, and apparently, they've said "It's closer than you think" to a few people, so I would definitely say a choir library fits the definition of most anticipated.


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## liquidlino (Jul 16, 2022)

I think everyone has forgotten the pic of Eric whitacre outside air earlier this year. It's a new choir library I reckon.


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## liquidlino (Jul 16, 2022)

GeorgeThatMusicGuy said:


> I'm personally thinking it will be a choir library. For months now spitfire has been putting eye emojis on Instagram comments requesting a new choir library, and apparently, they've said "It's closer than you think" to a few people, so I would definitely say a choir library fits the definition of most anticipated.


Ha! Snap! I wrote mine having not seen your post.


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## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2022)

But, is a new Choir library more anticipated than AR1 Modular Orch. ? 

I doubt it.

OH.. and from a detective's perspective, wouldn't the Choir members usually be standing up, rather than sitting down on chairs ?


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 16, 2022)

Well, I guess there’s a choice to be made. 

Either spend a lovely sunny afternoon playing with the kids, or shut myself in a dark room with coffee and trawl the archived social media pages of known London session musicians for clues. 😜


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## Spid (Jul 16, 2022)

Maybe I’m late, but I just saw a 360° video of BBC orchestra on Spitfire YT channel:



They changed BBC Discovery to free now, they publish a video of the BBC Orchestra… something tells me the news in 6 days will be about BBC Orchestra… that would be logical.


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## Vik (Jul 16, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> from a detective's perspective, wouldn't the Choir members usually be standing up, rather than sitting down on chairs ?


Sure, and if it's their highly anticipated Snoring Strings, they would be lying in the floor. So it must be the modular library.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 16, 2022)

Spid said:


> Maybe I’m late, but I just saw a 360° video of BBC orchestra on Spitfire YT channel:
> 
> 
> 
> They changed BBC Discovery to free now, they publish a video of the BBC Orchestra… something tells me the news in 6 days will be about BBC Orchestra… that would be logical.



Is Maida Vale actually in operation still? I thought it was decommissioned.


----------



## RogiervG (Jul 16, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Well, I guess there’s a choice to be made.
> 
> Either spend a lovely sunny afternoon playing with the kids, or shut myself in a dark room with coffee and trawl the archived social media pages of known London session musicians for clues. 😜


kids have to wait, researching clues is important!


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## RogiervG (Jul 16, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Is Maida Vale actually in operation still? I thought it was decommissioned.


still operational (with covid regulations), current plans are to relocate in 2025


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## davidson (Jul 16, 2022)

John Williams Composer Toolkit, incoming!


----------



## pawelmorytko (Jul 16, 2022)

davidson said:


> John Williams Composer Toolkit, incoming!


That's a weird way of spelling Abbey Road Modular Orchestra


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## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2022)

I watched their latest BBCSO 360° video on YT playing JW's Hedwig Theme, and thought it is a bit of an odd timing to post this. So, I'm also curious if it is actually related to the July 21st release.


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## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2022)

What if it is the BBCSO Orchestra playing in AR-1 ?


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## RogiervG (Jul 16, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> What if it is the BBCSO Orchestra playing in AR-1 ?


bbcso blockbuster edition?
(With more dynamic layers, more articulations, more instruments, more mics, new scripting etc etc)


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## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> bbcso blockbuster edition?


Why not ? The BBCSO Players are fantastic. Given they already have the experience to work with Spitfire Audio in Maida Vale (which I'm not sure is operational), they can be the orchestra they used for AR-1 Mod. Orch.. Just a wild guess given they posted that BBCSO video just a few days ago.


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## RogiervG (Jul 16, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Why not ? The BBCSO Players are fantastic. Given they already have the experience to work with Spitfire Audio in Maida Vale (which I'm not sure is operational), they can be the orchestra they used for AR-1 Mod. Orch.. Just a wild guess given they posted that BBCSO video just a few days ago.


you might be on to something here


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## tritonely (Jul 16, 2022)

Can't wait to see this thread explode when Hans Zimmer Brass is released but it's based on Zimmer's use of this trumpet:


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## RogiervG (Jul 16, 2022)

tritonely said:


> when Hans Zimmer Brass is released


If they release something like that, i will go back to by little corner of the room sobbing on the edge of silence: "they didn't release the real most anticipated library to date... whyyyyyyyyyyyyy *sobs*"
Aka No need for over the top loud, insane amount of concurrent players, braaming away.


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## Reznov981 (Jul 16, 2022)

It seems that the most anticipated library is quite debatable!
So... Does the most anticipated library really exist? Is this Schrodinger's library!?


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## RogiervG (Jul 16, 2022)

It's Spitfire audio it's own view on "most anticipated library to date", it might be what we consider the "most anticipated library to date", it might not...

it's spitfire, they play with strong words during marketing... are very secretive, vague with pictures/hints

Still i hope it's AR modular orchestra (or a part of it), even if it's reveal/launch date event (so we know when it's available, price etc), that is my "most anticipated library to date" from spitfire's product catalog. (but i am not going to hype myself, when there is nothing known yet)


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## mussnig (Jul 16, 2022)

Well, people have anticipated a solo trombone legato in SSB for a long time 😂

Jokes aside, I am wondering if this is only an announcement or already a release. Because usually they have a sale at some point in late July (or maybe early August). So for example it would make sense to announce some Abbey Road stuff to be released in Fall and thus to have AROOF as part of a special package during a Summer Sale now.


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## VVEremita (Jul 16, 2022)

I am very curious. If my memory serves me right, Appassionata was announced as "most anticipated" as well. And to be honest, it wasn't even "most expected" or expected at all by me. It came as a nice surprise though!


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## NoamL (Jul 16, 2022)

These sure look like CHAIR Lyndhurst:











I think this is either an Albion or EWC2.


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## ka00 (Jul 16, 2022)

Spitfire Musical Chairs

Featuring only the chair creaks from our quietest articulations, to be used for added realism when your mix sounds too perfect.

Join us for a chair affair to remembair.


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## NoamL (Jul 16, 2022)

Maida Vale for comparison:


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## ka00 (Jul 16, 2022)

If it is EWC2, I wonder what they’d add to it? All-new Impulse Legato? More syllables? More evolutions?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 16, 2022)

I'm excited to see that Spitfire is branching out from samples into selling chairs and upholstery.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 16, 2022)

I’m set on Air. Which means I get to make my usual “prediction” and endure your collective eye roll one again:

“Spitfire Symphony Orchestra: Special Edition.”

Highlights from the Air sampling years wrapped up in a BBCSO style band in the box. Catnip for the BBCSO crowd. Won’t annoy existing SSO owners. Keeps incoming Abbey Road top of the pile.

Come on Spitfire. You know it makes sense. <gets coat>


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## jbuhler (Jul 16, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> I’m set on Air. Which means I get to make my usual “prediction” and endure your collective eye roll one again:
> 
> “Spitfire Symphony Orchestra: Special Edition.”
> 
> ...


Maybe, and it is a great idea. Except I had the impression they encountered some issue porting SSO to the new player and so abandoned it.


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## reids (Jul 16, 2022)

The Hans Zimmer Strings walkthrough and Daniel James coverage video on HZ Strings, the view counts on those compared to BBCSO and AR One should give you an idea which is most anticipated. The view counts do not budge much afterward since people move fast onto the next thing. HZ Brass will be just as anticipated if not more. Let the numbers speak for themselves. Bring on the Brass📯!


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## dzilizzi (Jul 16, 2022)

reids said:


> +5 from me for HZ Brass.
> 
> Users have been waiting and wanting an HZ Brass library recorded at AIR Studios long before Abbey Road series was even announced. This would be the most anticipated library to date and will have all the extra attention to go with the name. It is the MISSING link. We have HZ Strings, HZ Percussion, but NO HZ Brass? That would be a sin! Now make it happen @Spitfire Team. HZ BRASSsssss..........!!! I want them horns to rip the roof off!!! FFF!!!!!!!! Full Fu****g Force!!!!! LOUD!!!!!! 🎺📯🔊📢 =
> 
> ...


It will be 80 brass instruments on the edge of silence. Then DJ will review it saying "It sounds great, but this was not what I was expecting when they said HZ and 80 instrument sections" And HZ will reply "Hey, I write soft music!" And DJ will respond "This is true, still not what I was expecting." And then VI-C members will get involved, a few will get banned over something that was nothing. And 80 pages later, people will complain the the second trumpet is slightly off key on the Bb note 4th round robin. 

Yup, just what we were looking for!


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## Niv Schrieber (Jul 16, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> It will be 80 brass instruments on the edge of silence. Then DJ will review it saying "It sounds great, but this was not what I was expecting when they said HZ and 80 instrument sections" And HZ will reply "Hey, I write soft music!" And DJ will respond "This is true, still not what I was expecting." And then VI-C members will get involved, a few will get banned over something that was nothing. And 80 pages later, people will complain the the second trumpet is slightly off key on the Bb note 4th round robin.
> 
> Yup, just what we were looking for!


Don't forget the follow up video by Christian "is HZ brass the right brass library for you"


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## reids (Jul 16, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> It will be 80 brass instruments on the edge of silence. Then DJ will review it saying "It sounds great, but this was not what I was expecting when they said HZ and 80 instrument sections" And HZ will reply "Hey, I write soft music!" And DJ will respond "This is true, still not what I was expecting." And then VI-C members will get involved, a few will get banned over something that was nothing. And 80 pages later, people will complain the the second trumpet is slightly off key on the Bb note 4th round robin.
> 
> Yup, just what we were looking for!


Haha, yea. Can't deny HZ Strings was highly anticipated though, my point for HZ Brass as well. The topic going on was about Spitfire posting about a release for their most anticipated product to date. What would you say is their most anticipated product to date?


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 16, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Maybe, and it is a great idea. Except I had the impression they encountered some issue porting SSO to the new player and so abandoned it.


Thanks!
And that was my understanding too. But I always assumed it was a time/resource/will thing rather than an outright technical no-no. 🤷‍♂️


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## Frederick (Jul 16, 2022)

My guess is another AIR strings library to go with Appassionata Strings. Sort of another technology try out for Abbey Road strings that makes it to the market?


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## dzilizzi (Jul 16, 2022)

reids said:


> Haha, yea. Can't deny HZ Strings was highly anticipated though, my point for HZ Brass as well. The topic going on was about Spitfire posting about a release for their most anticipated product to date. What would you say is their most anticipated product to date?


For me, it is the AR modular or the AROOF legato Strings.


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## reids (Jul 16, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> For me, it is the AR modular or the AROOF legato Strings.


Good choices. Also, as some people mentioned the pictures are of AIR, I wonder how progress is coming along on the rumored Albion Colossus library that got teased/leaked (folder) in a walkthrough video? Very likely it would be recorded at AIR as well.


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## NuNativs (Jul 16, 2022)

Please don't let it be HZBrass, I have the Strings and I just can't afford it right now!


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## jbuhler (Jul 16, 2022)

Frederick said:


> My guess is another AIR strings library to go with Appassionata Strings. Sort of another technology try out for Abbey Road strings that makes it to the market?


Appassionata strings, shorts and additional articulations, would make sense but the seating arrangement of the chairs seems wrong for that.


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## mussnig (Jul 16, 2022)

Spitfire Appassionata Shorts

and throughout the next year we will also get:
Spitfire Apassionata Trems
Spitfire Appassionata Special Bows
Spitfire Apassionats Con Sordinos
Spitfire Apassionata Patterns

And in the end we will have payed more than 1K for yet another strings library in Air Lyndhurst


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## LATABOM (Jul 16, 2022)

Albion branding is always "cinematic", which a photograph of chairs and headphones is not. Middle of summer isnt exactly "flagship library" time either. My guess would be BBC-related.


----------



## dts_marin (Jul 16, 2022)

Spitfire Dimension Strings


----------



## duanran007 (Jul 16, 2022)

dts_marin said:


> Spitfire Dimension Strings


Or Multiverse Strings?


----------



## Alex Fraser (Jul 16, 2022)




----------



## jbuhler (Jul 16, 2022)

LATABOM said:


> Albion branding is always "cinematic", which a photograph of chairs and headphones is not. Middle of summer isnt exactly "flagship library" time either. My guess would be BBC-related.


I think this is a good call about the image being off brand for an Albion, though that tips me toward EWC2 or an Appassionata extension.


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## RogiervG (Jul 16, 2022)

we shall see, what it will be...


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## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2022)

Maybe they decide to post another teaser/s before July 21st., and possibly something about it on their social media channels.


----------



## NoamL (Jul 16, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


>


"And what's another word for "edge of silence"? It's a noise FLOOR. You see it's all connected!"


----------



## VVEremita (Jul 16, 2022)

I am very curious. If my memory serves me right, Appassionata was announced as "most anticipated" as well. To be honest, it wasn't even "most expected" or expected at all by me, as I didn't know it was in the making. It came as a nice surprise


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2022)

VVEremita said:


> I am very curious. If my memory serves me right, Appassionata was announced as "most anticipated" as well. To be honest, it wasn't even "most expected" or expected at all by me, as I didn't know it was in the making. It came as a nice surprise


I know what you mean. Spitfire Audio's marketing can sometimes make no sense, I was also not expecting them to release Appas. Strings when they announced it. 

I guess we can expect the unexpected this time again. I'm being optimistic that it might be AR-1 Modular Orch. , but it could also be something related to the BBCSO Library, or even to Appassionata Strings, or something we didn't know they are working on all together.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 16, 2022)

It isn’t entirey unlikely it is “just” the Legendary High Strings Film Scoring Selection. Which by the way is kind of my own personal most anticipated Spitfire library.


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## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> It isn’t entirey unlikely it is “just” the Legendary High Strings Film Scoring Selection. Which by the way is kind of my own personal most anticipated Spitfire library.


Yes, that could be another possibility. I guess we just have to wait to know. I also think it would be the last AROOF Expansion they planned to release.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 16, 2022)

If SFA ever makes Appassionata Shorts, it'll almost certainly be a hit. 

Just the convenience of having matching section sizes and recording hall would pretty much sell it right there.


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## muziksculp (Jul 16, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> If SFA ever makes Appassionata Shorts, it'll almost certainly be a hit.
> 
> Just the convenience of having matching section sizes and recording hall would pretty much sell it right there.


I agree, and hopefully if this happens, they don't skip the staccatto articulations, and just give us Spiccs.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 16, 2022)

I hope it's a room tone library called "Air - recorded at AIR". Recorded at multiple dynamic levels.


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## Gerbil (Jul 16, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I agree, and hopefully if this happens, they don't skip the staccatto articulations, and just give us Spiccs.


Spicc, stacc ... col legno. Guaranteed.


----------



## Jackal_King (Jul 16, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> If SFA ever makes Appassionata Shorts, it'll almost certainly be a hit.
> 
> Just the convenience of having matching section sizes and recording hall would pretty much sell it right there.


It would be cool if they did that and included sordino strings for them. Or, Appassionata chamber strings with the shorts.


----------



## jcrosby (Jul 16, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


>


Take it easy Charlie!!!! You've been huffing that rubber cement for too long man!


----------



## ka00 (Jul 16, 2022)

In the photo, we’re shown what looks like a grouping of three chairs, and then a gap and another chair in the distance. If it was EWC2, wouldn’t it just be 22 chairs, equally spaced in arc formation? If we are to trust the chair photos as being from the actual recording session in question (not that it has to be) then this could indicate it’s not the choir.


----------



## DJiLAND (Jul 17, 2022)

beyerdynamic DT 102 simulation plugin.
You can experience true stage monitor sound.
(Delicately modeled 16 ohm and 400 ohm models included. Of course, you can only hear with one ear.😎)


----------



## Francisco Lamolda (Jul 17, 2022)

My money is on the library replacing Albion III Iceni. Although personally I'd be much happier if it had something to do with BBC or Abbey Road Modular Orchestra.


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## Justin L. Franks (Jul 17, 2022)

Regarding the possibility of it being HZ Brass....

In Christian's "My Latest String HACK" video yesterday, the cue had a loud and low brass half-step bend down in it at 0:38.



And that's _definitely_ not the Kepler low brass non-pulsing Dopplers, which I think is the only Spitfire brass library which has a brass bend patch like that.


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## duanran007 (Jul 17, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Regarding the possibility of it being HZ Brass....
> 
> In Christian's "My Latest String HACK" video yesterday, the cue had a loud and low brass half-step bend down in it at 0:38.
> 
> ...



I guess it's his favorite patch in Albion 3


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## muk (Jul 17, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> If SFA ever makes Appassionata Shorts, it'll almost certainly be a hit.


The question is what would the concept be behind 'Appassionata Shorts'? The concept of 'Appassionata Strings' was a new technique of recording and programming legato, so that various transitions are triggered automatically based on your playing. The section sizes were chosen in a way that it can be used in combination with either Spitfire Chamber Strings or Symphonic Strings, as an additional legato option. Spitfire also put in some shorter bowing options, such as the 'glancing attack'. It looks like a library that came into existence very much as a way to develop new techniques that then can be applied to the Abbey Road Modular series.

Now, given that Appassionata Strings are conceptualized as a new legato library that works in tandem with either Symphonic or Chamber Strings, I don't really see a place for 'Appassionata Shorts'. Unless Spitfire found a new way to record short articulations that they want to test before Abbey Road Modular.


----------



## Ricgus3 (Jul 17, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Regarding the possibility of it being HZ Brass....
> 
> In Christian's "My Latest String HACK" video yesterday, the cue had a loud and low brass half-step bend down in it at 0:38.
> 
> ...



Probably Albion Colossus (new iceni). My guess at least. Don’t really see it being Hans zimmer brass in any direction, has that even been talked about byCH or Paul?


----------



## RogiervG (Jul 17, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Regarding the possibility of it being HZ Brass....
> 
> In Christian's "My Latest String HACK" video yesterday, the cue had a loud and low brass half-step bend down in it at 0:38.
> 
> ...



with some fiddling this can also be done with e.g. studio brass pro (it supports bending) with a low string section underneath (e.g. cellos and double basses) maybe with even a contrabass clarinet or bassoon added.


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Jul 17, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Regarding the possibility of it being HZ Brass....
> 
> In Christian's "My Latest String HACK" video yesterday, the cue had a loud and low brass half-step bend down in it at 0:38.
> 
> ...



Yeah my thought was that this brass (and the percussion perhaps) could be from the new library. Really making me think of HZ Brass of Albion Colossos


----------



## Vik (Jul 17, 2022)

muk said:


> The question is what would the concept be behind 'Appassionata Shorts'? The concept of 'Appassionata Strings' was a new technique of recording and programming legato, so that various transitions are triggered automatically based on your playing. The section sizes were chosen in a way that it can be used in combination with either Spitfire Chamber Strings or Symphonic Strings, as an additional legato option. Spitfire also put in some shorter bowing options, such as the 'glancing attack'. It looks like a library that came into existence very much as a way to develop new techniques that then can be applied to the Abbey Road Modular series.
> 
> Now, given that Appassionata Strings are conceptualized as a new legato library that works in tandem with either Symphonic or Chamber Strings, I don't really see a place for 'Appassionata Shorts'. Unless Spitfire found a new way to record short articulations that they want to test before Abbey Road Modular.


Check out the various recordings of Beethoven's 7th symphony, the 2nd movement. A few of them are played with very little expression, but I prefer those who are played very espressivo/appassionata. These are short notes with various length (based on the tempo of the recordings, among other things), and in order to make a convincing version of these with samples, one would need more lengths than just spiccato and staccato, some of them belong more in the portato/loure/martele category. None of them are long notes.

Someone wrote in another thread:_ 
"I think of loure, or portato ("carried sound"), as a very subtle swell and slow attack on each note, while never letting the sound go away ... alas sample makers get fixated on legato and spiccato, and they forget about detache (which is maybe 75% of real playing)."_

Instead of focusing of the various terms above, we simply need libraries with a larger selection of shorts than today, with various degrees of attack (not just normal, soft or marcato) and various degrees of 'passion'/vibrato in the lower third of the dynamic range.

Spitfire Appassionata seems to be their best move so far towards releasing something very expressive and with 5 dynamic layers, but as discussed earlier, it doesn't really cover molto vib or appasionata in the lower dynamic levels. Neither does it offer vibrato control.
@NoamL uses the hairpin shorts in SAS for loure playing – I don't have SAS so I don't know how far they go terms of having enough variation of really expressive shorts and semi-shorts with various degrees of attacks. But my impression from demos and walkthroughs is that none of the libraries out there covers the need for 'appassionata shorts'/expressive shorts/loure/portato well enough – far from it. The first libraries which does that will get more customers than Land of Missing Parts and me!


----------



## Francisco Lamolda (Jul 17, 2022)

Vik said:


> Instead of focusing of the various terms above, we simply need libraries with a larger selection of shorts than today, with various degrees of attack (not just normal, soft or marcato) and various degrees of 'passion'/vifarto in the lower third of the dynamic range.


I very much agree. I hate that Spitfire makes VERY good sounding libraries but then it has too few articulations to really make expressive music. Things like BBC legato help, but it's not the same. The minimum should be something like the CSS shorts patch.


----------



## muk (Jul 17, 2022)

Agreed to everything @Vik. But it's not what I meant. The concept of Spitfire's 'Appassionata Strings' was clearly the new approach to recording and programming legato. However much various short articulations are needed to mockup a musical piece that is 'Appassionata', it's clearly not the scope of the library. Nor does it fit with the concept of the library, which seems to be a sort of proof of concept for new recording and programming techniques for legatos that are to be used in the Abbey Road Modular libraries.


----------



## Vik (Jul 17, 2022)

muk said:


> However much various short articulations are needed to mockup a musical piece that is 'Appassionata', it's clearly not the scope of the library. Nor does it fit with the concept of the library, which seems to be a sort of proof of concept for new recording and programming techniques for legatos that are to be used in the Abbey Road Modular libraries.


Sure. Plus, if they would make everuthing perfect in that library, the would sell fewer of the first library they make with proper, espessivo shorts in various lengths! 

The differences between shorts that are just short and the expressive ones is quite clear. The expressive ones are most impressive!
To use Beethoven 7 again (it's not only me who is a big fan if that second movement – the first time it was performed, the response was so good that they played it twice!


This is not a slow version of it, but even here that little drop of passion/vibrato makes an important difference:



Here's a version which makes me wonder if they all had to reach a train:



This is more expressive:



This one below is interesting for several reasons. Listen to the first note after the little break (0:31). It illustrates what it sounds like when they synchronize their vibrato 'cycles' (start and length of each of the single 'vibratos'). Spitfire Chamber Strings have some vibratos which are played this way, but it varies from note to note.



There are more expressive versions out there, but these were among the first ones listed at YouTube. Some of the versions I have seem to use Sul Tasto and/or Con Sordino, some are very 'feathery'. It's amazing how much that can be done with notes that are as short as these.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 17, 2022)

muk said:


> The question is what would the concept be behind 'Appassionata Shorts'?


The main selling point would be convenience, pure and simple. Same section size and players, matching volume range, matching mics and mixes. So it can be a self-contained general purpose library.

AR1 is a good example. The stuff slots together well mix-wise and is reasonably well-balanced. Even the GUI integrates, so it operates like one cohesive library.

That said, I'd _love_ if they tried to tackle what Vik is saying.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 17, 2022)

muk said:


> The question is what would the concept be behind 'Appassionata Shorts'? The concept of 'Appassionata Strings' was a new technique of recording and programming legato, so that various transitions are triggered automatically based on your playing. The section sizes were chosen in a way that it can be used in combination with either Spitfire Chamber Strings or Symphonic Strings, as an additional legato option. Spitfire also put in some shorter bowing options, such as the 'glancing attack'. It looks like a library that came into existence very much as a way to develop new techniques that then can be applied to the Abbey Road Modular series.
> 
> Now, given that Appassionata Strings are conceptualized as a new legato library that works in tandem with either Symphonic or Chamber Strings, I don't really see a place for 'Appassionata Shorts'. Unless Spitfire found a new way to record short articulations that they want to test before Abbey Road Modular.


Very good point. I agree.


----------



## Vik (Jul 17, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> That said, I'd _love_ if they tried to tackle what Vik is saying.


Me too.  And since the kind of samples I'm talking about are missing from almost all string libraries, I'm pretty sure not only that we'll see them coming in some libraries soon, but also that once a company or two have been getting them, the others will follow.

This isn't only about short notes of course, it's about having enough vibrato/passion/movement in long notes and legatos as well, in the lower dynamic levels. Such samples are needed for https://youtu.be/bPOBjMgOvqM?list=OLAK5uy_lUDoJV5KpgPkG5nFwFK2iAxCc_yeI164s (this) and https://youtu.be/n4bqRlNSQQE?t=125 (this) kind of stuff, lots of the incredible stuff https://youtu.be/Les39aIKbzE (Mahler) does in the lower dynamic levels (Mahler's music has been used in more than 250 movies), the beginning of https://youtu.be/ijKuoVoEB84 (this) piece – written by an Eurovision winner! – and much, much more. 




Up tp 2010, this Barber Adagio had been used in all these movies:

A Very Natural Thing (1974)
The Elephant Man (1980)
El Norte (1983)
Platoon (1986)
Lorenzo’s Oil (1992)
Wild Reeds (1994)
Falling for You (1995) (TV)
“ER” episode “Do One, Teach One, Kill One” (1995)
The Scarlet Letter (1995)
The Hunters (1996)
“Seinfeld” episode “The Fatigues” (1996)
The Closing Down of the Renault Factory at Vilvoorde Belgium – The Sexual Life of the Belgians – Part 3 (1999)
“Red Dwarf” episode “Only the Good…” (1999)
“Spaced” episode “Battles” (1999)
Kevin & Perry Go Large (2000)
Amélie (2001)
S1m0ne (2002)
3 episodes of “The Simpsons”: “The Strong Arms of the Ma” (2003), “Marge Gamer” (2007), “Little Orphan Millie” (2007)
Swimming Upstream (2003)
Reconstruction (2003)
“South Park” episode “Up the Down Steroid” (2004)
Ma Mère (2004)
Peace One Day (2004)
Liubi (2005)
Tenacious D in the Pick of Destiny (2006)
Sicko (2007)
“Big Love” episode “Outer Darkness” (2009)
“American Dad!” episode “In Country… Club” (2009)
“How I Met Your Mother” episode “Jenkins” (2010)



(source: https://theironcupcake.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/overkill-using-adagio-for-strings-in-movies-and-tv/)

Here's another version:


----------



## dunamisstudio (Jul 18, 2022)

It's in AIR


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## Ricgus3 (Jul 18, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> It's in AIR



Interested to see what this is! Blown my budget for now with a lot of libraries but will be interested to follow whatever this might be!


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## Zanshin (Jul 18, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> It's in AIR



HZ Brass confirmed!!!

(EWC II more likely)


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## Karmand (Jul 18, 2022)

It's not my "most anticipated"... we will see. Probably won't purchase.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 18, 2022)

Nice. I'll always have a soft spot for the "Classic Spitfire Air" sound.

Interesting that they're making a big deal of "the room" again. Shots of the balconies, ceiling etc. That would suggest a large scale sound where the room is part of the sell. HZ Brass definitely one of several possibilities. That said, the teaser implies it's _"Spitfire Room Tone and Noise Floor"_


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## titokane (Jul 18, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> It's in AIR



Somebody joked earlier about “the air in Air” and this clip seems to confirm it. Albion Air: Past the Edge of Silence. 100 never-before heard articulations (and still never heard) buried under the legendary noise floor at Air Studios.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Jul 18, 2022)

(Probably also a good time to take the speculation to a new thread, as Abbey Road has now been thrown unceremoniously off the table.) 






Spitfire's new AIR library, coming July 21st


Let's talk.



vi-control.net


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## RogiervG (Jul 18, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> HZ Brass confirmed!!!
> 
> (EWC II more likely)


both are not are not "the most anticipated library to date" if you ask around that is. Especially EWC II
Maybe SF thinks only towards their themselves want..? E.g. another very niche library.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 18, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> the most anticipated library to date


What is? And is there hard data to back any of those statements up?


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## Germain B (Jul 18, 2022)

They should release the Speculated Orchestral Library.


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## muziksculp (Jul 18, 2022)

So... How likely is it that this is a new Strings library ? Maybe to complement their popular Appassionata Legato Strings ?


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## RogiervG (Jul 18, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> What is? And is there hard data to back any of those statements up?


same question in return (in that it is)


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## FinGael (Jul 18, 2022)

[a thought for the day]

I feel grateful when Mr Thomson is very excited. It gives me comfort and security in this crazy world, where everything seems to change all the time.

[/a thought for the day]






Please, go on.


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## Francisco Lamolda (Jul 18, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> So... How likely is it that this is a new Strings library ?


For me the seats of the thumbnail of the premiere seems that are for woodwinds or brass. Maybe a woodwind or brass or full orchestra ensemble.


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## muziksculp (Jul 18, 2022)

Francisco Lamolda said:


> For me the seats of the thumbnail of the premiere seems that are for woodwinds or brass. Maybe a woodwind or brass or full orchestra ensemble.


Interesting, but... do we need more of those ?


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## Loerpert (Jul 18, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Interesting, but... do we need more of those ?


Oh you.. 🤣


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 18, 2022)

Considering that AIR is an expensive place to record and that Spitfire naturally is expecting to make a profit from this release, it could be:

- Appassionata shorts etc. (relatively few recordings so less units needed to be sold to break even + a manageable little sideproject while also working on the upcoming Modular orchestra + Appassionata is Paul’s pet project  ) Edit: Would likely increase sale of the original App. Strings since it would now be a more complete string package, so those who were not interested in a mostly legato string library would now possibly become interested)

- Hans Zimmer Brass (bigger project, more recordings, requires more units sold to break even, more time-consuming, but Spitfire might have had to jump at the chance if Hans had the desire to make this happen and was enthusiastic and had space in his calender)


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## mussnig (Jul 18, 2022)

It could also simply be the re-release of some Iceni patches as part of the Originals series. I remember when the Cimbalom was re-released they also had some teasers for it ...


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## Baronvonheadless (Jul 18, 2022)

I bet it will finally be an originals series choir, because A LOT of people have been requesting that on YouTube videos and other places online for quite some time, pretty much every time an original is being released. Which would be an AIR library too!


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## muziksculp (Jul 18, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I bet it will finally be an originals series choir, because A LOT of people have been requesting that on YouTube videos and other places online for quite some time, pretty much every time an original is being released. Which would be an AIR library too!


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## Baronvonheadless (Jul 18, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>


Yeah I don't want it but a lot of people are overhyped on choirs because they can't sing.


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## muziksculp (Jul 18, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yeah I don't want it but a lot of people are overhyped on choirs because they can't sing.


If that's what it is, my wallet will be having a party.  🎈🎈🎈

I already have EWC, very good choir library, and good enough for my needs. Don't need another one labeled 'Originals' . No Thanks. 

Now where the hell is AR1 Modular Orchestra ?


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## Francisco Lamolda (Jul 18, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Interesting, but... do we need more of those ?


I always ask myself this every time spitfire releases something...


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## SwordComposer (Jul 19, 2022)

This is most likely EWC 2 or some sort of Spitfire choir with Whitacre involved. Eric leaked this library back in February on his instagram:


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## muziksculp (Jul 19, 2022)

SwordComposer said:


> This is most likely EWC 2 or some sort of Spitfire choir with Whitacre involved. Eric leaked this library back in February on his instagram:


@SwordComposer ,

For some reason, I have a feeling you might be right about this being EWC 2. Let's wait and see.


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## musicisum (Jul 19, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> @SwordComposer ,
> 
> For some reason, I have a feeling you might be right about this being EWC 2. Let's wait and see.


thinking the same. I think the first lib between SF and Eric Whitacre was well presented with a few very nice sounding choir patch, but letting room for more experimental or textural stuff.
Let's see!


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## Loerpert (Jul 19, 2022)

I hope it's something with good legato. Then I'll buy it in a whimp.


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## muziksculp (Jul 20, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> @SwordComposer ,
> 
> For some reason, I have a feeling you might be right about this being EWC 2. Let's wait and see.


It is a new Choir Library. But is it EWC2 or a new Choir library that doesn't involve E.W. in the production ?


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## RogiervG (Jul 20, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> It is a new Choir Library. But is it EWC2 or a new Choir library that doesn't involve E.W. in the production ?



the one you've been waiting for ->Choir lib = pass


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## Justin L. Franks (Jul 20, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I bet it will finally be an originals series choir, because A LOT of people have been requesting that on YouTube videos and other places online for quite some time, pretty much every time an original is being released. Which would be an AIR library too!


I highly doubt it will be an Originals release. With fifty singers to pay, plus renting one of the most expensive spaces, the math simply doesn't work. Other than Cinematic Frozen Strings (which had only eight musicians) has there even been another Originals release recorded in AIR that was new recordings, and not ones reused from older libraries?


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## Baronvonheadless (Jul 20, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> I highly doubt it will be an Originals release. With fifty singers to pay, plus renting one of the most expensive spaces, the math simply doesn't work. Other than Cinematic Frozen Strings (which had only eight musicians) has there even been another Originals release recorded in AIR that was new recordings, and not ones reused from older libraries?


Pretty sure originals was a guess way before we knew anything about the number of players involved...


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## jaketanner (Jul 20, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Those red chairs in Abbey Road are a large part of the studio identity. Would be a hard miss to get that wrong in the marketing.


Unless that was the point...to throw us off. LOL.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 21, 2022)

They're taking their sweet time with this AR modular thing though...
Come this October, it'll be the two year anniversary of this announcement.

What do we think is happening? Taking time to get it juuuust right? Or is getting recording time at Abbey Road an issue? 

If it's a long term project with releases coming over a number of years, there wouldn't be much harm in Spitfire showing an ankle or two now? It's not like we're talking about a super secret product anymore. Have plans changed?

Random thoughts over a coffee..


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## Francis Bourre (Jul 21, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> They're taking their sweet time with this AR modular thing though...
> Come this October, it'll be the two year anniversary of this announcement.
> 
> What do we think is happening? Taking time to get it juuuust right? Or is getting recording time at Abbey Road an issue?
> ...


They already told they could not organise big recording sessions because of covid restrictions so the project has been delayed, and this part is my guess: Has been replaced by smaller projects like Abbey Road II...
I got hard time to imagine this kind of big project could happen before next year.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 21, 2022)

I'm not sure it's outright cancelled but I can imagine some scenarios:

*"The Musiksculp Approved"*
The recordings are done and dusted. Final touches are being made to the product(s) to ensure that SF are 100% in control of the release schedule.

*"The Diet"*
Access to Abbey Road is proving tighter than imagined with competition from film companies, Netflix, production music etc. The project is scaled back into something resembling a slimmer SSO or even a BBCSO-turned-to-11 type product.

*"The We're-Not-All-A-Listers anymore"*
Spitfire are making a killing creating sub £300 libraries and releasing a £1000 string library all of a sudden comes with question marks.

*"Dammit. Just Ship It"*
The strings are done and ready for release. They're shipped and a new staff member is employed to field VIC queries on _"where is the rest of it"_ until the end of time. Musiksculp does not approve, but PT is very excited again.

Just being mischievous and providing talking points. Honestly - I've no idea.


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## jbuhler (Jul 21, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> They're taking their sweet time with this AR modular thing though...
> Come this October, it'll be the two year anniversary of this announcement.
> 
> What do we think is happening? Taking time to get it juuuust right? Or is getting recording time at Abbey Road an issue?
> ...


I mean the earliest I thought AR modular would start being available at the time SF made the announcement was about now, and that was a world before Covid. In the meantime I think they’ve had to deal with a difficult booking schedule due to Covid delays and some issues with changing their approach to legato, especially string legato.

ETA: and the AROOF scoring selections have been showing a lot of what they are up to. So we’ve been seeing glimpses. And the fact that the legato is not yet out for the upper strings I think is also quite telling as was the release of Appassionata Strings, as everything there points to that as an experiment on techniques for AR modular that went so spectacularly well that they turned it into a commercial release.


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## mussnig (Jul 21, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> and that was a world before Covid.


At the time of their Abbey Road announcement (Fall 2020) we were already in a world with Covid.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 21, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> nd the fact that the legato is not yet out for the upper strings I think is also quite telling as was the release of Appassionata Strings, as everything there points to that as an experiment on techniques for AR modular that went so spectacularly well that they turned it into a commercial release.


On that: My understanding is that the samples have to be recorded in a certain way for Spitfire's Power Legato(™) technique to happen. i.e not just a coding thing? From the site:



> Spitfire Appassionata Strings has been recorded using our new "Impulse Legato" technique



So it's a timeline thing. Would SF really go back and re-record? I..don't know. The risk is we're trying to see a connection between SAS and the Modular that doesn't exist. My impression was that SAS was a "ground up" reinterpretation of legato by design. A library that was designed to do one thing well.

There's a chance I've missed a conversation somewhere, of course.


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## jbuhler (Jul 21, 2022)

mussnig said:


> At the time of their Abbey Road announcement (Fall 2020) we were already in a world with Covid.


That’s right. I remember SF talking about how they weren’t able to record because of Covid and at the point of the announcement they said they had only recorded a little bit of the modular before Covid hit. In any case I wasn’t expecting any modular instruments to start appearing before this fall even at the time. And once the release of the scoring selections became a bit irregular i presumed that meant the modular likely would be pushed back as well (since I’ve been presuming SF has been using the scoring selections to work out production issues for the modular).


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## jbuhler (Jul 21, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> On that: My understanding is that the samples have to be recorded in a certain way for Spitfire's Power Legato(™) technique to happen. i.e not just a coding thing? From the site:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, though I’m pretty sure Appassionata was part of tests done for the modular AR strings. That is speculation on my part. It’s possible that it was an unrelated experiment. But there is also strong evidence that SF pulled the high strings scoring selection very close to when it was planned to be released (May 2021?), and Appassionata came out about six months later so the idea that the two things are connected is not an unreasonable supposition.


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## Baronvonheadless (Jul 21, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I bet it will finally be an originals series choir, because A LOT of people have been requesting that on YouTube videos and other places online for quite some time, pretty much every time an original is being released. Which would be an AIR library too!


I won. Somebody who doubted me should venmo me $29


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## muziksculp (Jul 21, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I won. Somebody who doubted me should venmo me $29


Yes, you were right on the money  

Now ... Can you please guess when AR1-Mod Orch will be released ?


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## Trash Panda (Jul 21, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I won. Somebody who doubted me should venmo me $29


Great minds. 



Trash Panda said:


>


----------



## holywilly (Jul 21, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, you were right on the money
> 
> Now ... Can you please guess when AR1-Mod Orch will be released ?


I'm expecting AR1-Mod stuffs to be released around 4th quarter of 2022. Or they will complete the Film Scoring Selections first. We need a Spitfire undercover for more rumors.


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## dunamisstudio (Jul 21, 2022)

holywilly said:


> We need a Spitfire undercover for more rumors.


The way this forum operates, it would be a bad idea. We'll have another Bungie/Destiny fiasco.


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## muziksculp (Jul 22, 2022)

Now that Spitfire Audio are more relaxed by releasing their Originals Epic Choir.

I hope they stop wasting their time, and focus on the real EPIC stuff... *AR-1 Modular Orchestra*, and release it this year, any day during Q4-2022 would be great.

I'm sure they will still be releasing some small libraries to keep their $$$ stream flowing, but on the other hand, I wish that they could use that time, and human resource to focus, and speed up AR-1 Modular Orch. release instead.

My patience level waiting for AR-1 Modular = Low at this time.


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## Mike Stone (Jul 22, 2022)

I'm sure Spitfire Audio has a dedicated team working on the AR-1 Modular Orchestra, but steadily releasing smaller stuff to finance the larger projects (the modular orchestra libraries must be very expensive to produce).

Better to wait a little longer, and get something that has as few bugs and optimization issues on release as possible (like Appassionata). SA has released too many slightly undercooked libraries in the past IMO, and having the customer wait another 6-12 months for a major update giving the "complete" experience.


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## Vik (Jul 23, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> Better to wait a little longer, and get something that has as few bugs and optimization issues on release as possible (like Appassionata).


Yup. It's not fair to both criticize these companies for not spending the time they need to sort out bugs etc before release _and_ complain because they spend too much time before they release them.


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## jbuhler (Jul 23, 2022)

Vik said:


> Yup. It's not fair to both criticize these companies for not spending the time they need to sort out bugs etc before release _and_ complain because they spend too much time before they release them.


I generally prefer a buggy release sooner over a pristine release that takes forever to appear. But I also expect a buggy release to have the bugs quickly quashed. And that often seems to take longer than it should. I don’t complain when there are bugs at release but I will complain when it’s a year later and those bugs still haven’t been fixed.


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## KEM (Jul 23, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I generally prefer a buggy release sooner over a pristine release that takes forever to appear. But I also expect a buggy release to have the bugs quickly quashed. And that often seems to take longer than it should. I don’t complain when there are bugs at release but I will complain when it’s a year later and those bugs still haven’t been fixed.



Honestly I totally agree with you, I’m willing to deal with a few hiccups if I get a product sooner


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 27, 2022)

I posted this link in another thread, but thought it might be useful here:





__





Spitfire Audio British Modular Library


Spitfire Audio’s BML range packages a full orchestral library into 20 individual modules.




www.soundonsound.com





It's a good primer on Spitfire's older and modular "BML" range. Look at the cost to get the lot though...


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## mybadmemory (Jul 27, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> I posted this link in another thread, but thought it might be useful here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Had no idea it was this many small parts. And gosh, those prices! Compare the price of all of that to getting BBCSO Pro at sale for around $500 today. That’s basically the price of just one of the eight string products back then. 
I wonder if that’s the approach they will take with the AR Modular stuff as well. Not just strings, brass, winds, and percussion, but a bigger bunch of much smaller packages.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 27, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> Had no idea it was this many small parts. And gosh, those prices! Compare the price of all of that to getting BBCSO Pro at sale for around $500 today. That’s basically the price of just one of the eight string products back then.
> I wonder if that’s the approach they will take with the AR Modular stuff as well. Not just strings, brass, winds, and percussion, but a bigger bunch of much smaller packages.


I know, right? Those prices raise an eyebrow in a world of £29 choir libraries.
Interesting to look at though. This is Spitfire's definition of modular, so I think it's realistic that we're not just talking about 1 or 3 releases. And a possibly a loooooong release window until the full collection is done.

Edit: I totted the totals up so you lot don't have to. To get everything, it runs to *£4875.80.* That's missing a couple of brass volumes still, but includes "Sable" which is now Chamber Strings. 
Take those out and it runs to *£3404.80* which still doesn't get you any percussion.

Not sure how relevant this is in 2022 but interesting anyhow. All we know for certain is that this is SF "most detailed sampling yet" which implies ££. Strap in.


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## mybadmemory (Jul 27, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Not sure how relevant this is in 2022 but interesting anyhow. All we know for certain is that this is SF "most detailed sampling yet" which implies ££. Strap in.


On the other hand it’s a different world now than back then. And spitfire clearly knows this, actively trying to widen their user base with LABS, Originals, Discover, etc. At that time their customer base was the top professionals and these days it seem to be everyone with a laptop basically. :D

Not saying it won’t be expensive. But I would be surprised to see them put so much effort into something that didn’t appeal to a large user base in one way or another. So I’m either expecting parts so small that anyone could afford them, or some kind of tier system where you can get simpler versions cheaper and then upgrade. We’ll see…


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 27, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> On the other hand it’s a different world now than back then. And spitfire clearly knows this, actively trying to widen their user base with LABS, Originals, Discover, etc. At that time their customer base was the top professionals and these days it seem to be everyone with a laptop basically. :D
> 
> Not saying it won’t be expensive. But I would be surprised to see them put so much effort into something that didn’t appeal to a large user base in one way or another. So I’m either expecting parts so small that anyone could afford them, or some kind of tier system where you can get simpler versions cheaper and then upgrade. We’ll see…


Exactly this. I swing backwards and forwards on where the series will land, price wise. Bite sized modular seems like a good candidate, like you say. Hides the true cost.. 

It might be the perfect delivery vehicle. Continued releases keep the hype train in motion, and because we're all collectors, we're compelled to keep adding and clocking up the bills (without noticing!)

That's the most fascinating thing for me. Not how it will sound, but how it's distributed.


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## Vik (Jul 27, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I generally prefer a buggy release sooner over a pristine release that takes forever to appear. But I also expect a buggy release to have the bugs quickly quashed


I don't mind a slightly buggy release either (unless I have a deadline), if the bugs are quickly fixed. But still: I clearly _prefer_ – for orchestral libraries and all other products – that they wait with releasing it until all major issues are sorted out.


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## Reznov981 (Jul 27, 2022)

Do we think it means anything that Spitfire just uploaded these photos?


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## dcoscina (Jul 27, 2022)

KEM said:


> Honestly I totally agree with you, I’m willing to deal with a few hiccups if I get a product sooner


sadly you are in the minority, especially at this place where bitching about what isn't right with a new release is rampant.


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## titokane (Jul 27, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Do we think it means anything that Spitfire just uploaded these photos?


Those relate to a post about the final hours of the Symphonic Motions sale.


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## KEM (Jul 27, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> sadly you are in the minority, especially at this place where bitching about what isn't right with a new release is rampant.



Believe me I’ve noticed, and I get it, if you pay a large amount of money for a product you should expect it to deliver, so I don’t blame anyone for voicing their dissatisfaction, I just know that personally if I can see the potential in a product and a developer is open about their intent to iron things out I won’t be critical of a product at launch


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## RogiervG (Jul 27, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Do we think it means anything that Spitfire just uploaded these photos?


Where is that? (not the location, it's air lyndhurst, but you know.. what website)
Update nevermind, those pictures are meant for supporting the discount on symphonic motions campaign


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## jbuhler (Jul 27, 2022)

Vik said:


> I don't mind a slightly buggy release either (unless I have a deadline), if the bugs are quickly fixed. But still: I clearly _prefer_ – for orchestral libraries and all other products – that they wait with releasing it until all major issues are sorted out.


What counts as major, though? Berlin Symphonic Strings was released before it was really ready but it was useful from day 1. I’m much happier to have gotten it then than 6 months or more later. On the other side are announcements and missed releases. And when the release comes there are still inevitably issues. (And it’s a miracle when there aren’t issues because the amount of code and number of samples these instruments have is very high and the number of systems it has to work on is also very high, so even the best beta testing system in the world isn’t going to catch everything. 

So my main thing isn’t really how many bugs are in the original release. It’s how quickly they quash the bugs that surface.


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## jbuhler (Jul 27, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> On the other hand it’s a different world now than back then. And spitfire clearly knows this, actively trying to widen their user base with LABS, Originals, Discover, etc. At that time their customer base was the top professionals and these days it seem to be everyone with a laptop basically. :D
> 
> Not saying it won’t be expensive. But I would be surprised to see them put so much effort into something that didn’t appeal to a large user base in one way or another. So I’m either expecting parts so small that anyone could afford them, or some kind of tier system where you can get simpler versions cheaper and then upgrade. We’ll see…


There’s no reason SF needs a high number of sales out of AR modular. It can in fact be a money losing proposition and still serve SF brand. SF has many libraries that serve the budget conscious. They do need this library to be top of the line in terms of performance and capabilities. If it’s priced under $2000 they may as well get rid of SSO. I think $3000 is likely what they are aiming at and it might be higher than $4000. I can see it released in $99 or $149 or $199 sized chunks though. 

I expect it to be released in smallish modules because that’s how BML was released and because that’s why you’d name AROOF that way: foundation. This is how BML related to Albion. Albion was the foundation library for BML, the idea being you’d use BML to bring detail to the foundation of Albion. That way you could also use your BML instruments in a set up that was all Air before the full orchestra was ready. This is how the scoring selections are being released, though in this case it’s more to bring AROOF to the capabilities of Albion 1 (though when it’s done the AROOF plus selections orchestra will be quite a lot more capable than Albion 1). 

So I’m expecting the modules of the modular library to be handled similarly to the selections but with more thorough sets of articulations, ranges, and so forth, and of course with a generally higher price tag. Something like: solo flute 1 $99, solo flute 2 $99, solo flute 3, $99, piccolo $99, alto flute $99, Ensemble flutes $79. (I have no particular insight as to whether SF will have multiple individual players per section—that has not been the SF way—but I think it makes sense for this collection in a way it did not in the other orchestras they have assembled.) 

In any event, in this way you can see how the nominal price of the modular orchestra can quickly get very high. Yes, there will be bundles to bring the price down somewhat. Still, I really can’t see a world where VI-C is not bitching about the price along with the legato, tuning of samples, timing of the shorts, and the SF player.


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## Frederick (Jul 27, 2022)

Suppose the quality of the AR1 Modular is similar to the quality of AR1 foundation and selections. Of course instead of ensembles there are sections and solo instruments. Also a lot more articulations and full range per instrument, but similar mic positions, player capabilities, dynamic layers and RR. Would a complete bundle really be worth something like $4,000 or up?

SA Symphony Professional Complete (Chamber Strings & Symphonic Strings included) is a little less than $2,500 I guess.

OT Berlin Mains and say the strings bundle combined is about $3,000 I guess.

VSL Synchron seems to be priced higher ($6,000 without pianos and organs and real Synchron recordings only). It seems to be popular enough, but probably nowhere near as popular as the SA orchestras like Symphonic and BBCSO. VSL Synchron is still waiting for muted articulations so the price will most likely go up further in the near future.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 27, 2022)

Looking at the prices for BML, you have to remember there were no hobbyist composers buying virtual instruments back then. The cost of a computer to run that was prohibitive. Now I can build one for around $1300 that will have at least 64GB RAM and a great CPU plus SSD's. So the audience was very small and the cost to produce had to be spread among less people. However, costs to produce have also gone up. So??

I do think it will probably be close to $2k for the whole thing, but I'm hoping, mixing with what I have from the AROOF collection, and waiting for bundle sales, I will get it for closer to what I paid for SSO in 2018. Though it may depend on what "the whole thing" is. A standard orchestra? Additional instruments not normally used? Well, should be interesting to see.


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## jbuhler (Jul 27, 2022)

Frederick said:


> Suppose the quality of the AR1 Modular is similar to the quality of AR1 foundation and selections. Of course instead of ensembles there are sections and solo instruments. Also a lot more articulations and full range per instrument, but similar mic positions, player capabilities, dynamic layers and RR. Would a complete bundle really be worth something like $4,000 or up?
> 
> SA Symphony Professional Complete (Chamber Strings & Symphonic Strings included) is a little less than $2,500 I guess.
> 
> ...


SF doesn’t need AR-1 modular to sell well. But they do need it to impress in terms of quality and capability. That’s far more important to SF at this point than that it moves copies. They also need separation in price from SSO or they may as well just retire it as soon as the modular library is done. I wouldn’t be surprised if AR-1 was priced near or even above what VSL Synchron is at. I would think they are aiming at somewhere in the $3000-$4000 range for bundled/sale price. Full retail price will be higher.


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 27, 2022)

Not sure I buy the “halo product” argument.

There’s a lot of costs to recoup, royalties to pay..and that’s assuming there isn’t some sort of financial arrangement/partnership with the studio itself that would need addressing.

Spitfire are using the AR likeness, logo, imagery, trademarks etc across the range. So either they’re paying for the privilege, or Abbey Road have some sort of financial return to come. (I think the relationship was trumpeted as some sort of joint venture at the outset..?)

Also dev costs and a whopping Cloudfront bill. Point being, some folk are going to want some coin.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 27, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Not sure I buy the “halo product” argument.
> 
> There’s a lot of costs to recoup, royalties to pay..and that’s assuming there isn’t some sort of financial arrangement/partnership with the studio itself that would need addressing.
> 
> Also dev costs and a whopping Cloudfront bill.


It really comes down to the Wal-Mart vs Neiman Marcus (is Harrods an equivalent?) approach. The more you sell, the less profit per item you need to make to be successful. And things like studio time and processing of samples gets spread over more items resulting in less cost per item. Or you make all your profit on a few sales. They do still have to cover things like royalties per item, which would not change. 

And based on their other products, they may have a "base" library with 2 or 3 mic positions and a "pro" library with all available mic positions. I guess we will see when it finally comes out.


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## jbuhler (Jul 27, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Not sure I buy the “halo product” argument.
> 
> There’s a lot of costs to recoup, royalties to pay..and that’s assuming there isn’t some sort of financial arrangement/partnership with the studio itself that would need addressing.
> 
> Also dev costs and a whopping Cloudfront bill.


I mean, we'll see, and economic conditions change so you can never say never. But car companies, for instance, spend tons on race car development with no expectation that they will reap anything but recognition for engineering prowess that earns reputation that extends down the line to cars people actually buy. I see AR-1 as similar. It's mostly about burnishing brand than selling copies of the library.


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## titokane (Jul 27, 2022)

Not that I have any more information that anybody else, but I’m betting it will be $2-3K for the full ARO bundle (although maybe that’s unrealistic for a “professional” 20-signal version). As others have mentioned it’s a very different world than it was back then, and pricing a full section (strings, brass, winds, etc) at around $1000 each will probably sell 10x times more than pricing the sections at $2000 each. Similarly to most libraries they also will probably tier the section prices, maybe $1200 strings, $1000 brass, $800 winds, $800 percussion, $3k bundled. 

It would be a dream to get it all for under $1500, but that’s probably a sale price 5-10 years from now, and even then probably just a version with one mix and no soloists 😂

Fingers crossed that when they inevitably introduce a lower tier they release a CTAO version instead of a Mix 1 version, but based on BBC and AR2 that feels unlikely.


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## Spid (Jul 27, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Now I can build one for around $1300 that will have at least 64K RAM and a great CPU plus SSD's…


If you’re paying $1,300 for a computer with *64kb* of RAM, you’re getting screwed big time 😂🤣


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## Alex Fraser (Jul 27, 2022)

Good points all.

Again, I’m not sure that SF will wade into the market with something massively expensive and out of reach for most. 

I think the answer - as everyone seems to agree on - is an expensive product that’s sliced and diced into (more) affordable options.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 27, 2022)

Spid said:


> If you’re paying $1,300 for a computer with *64kb* of RAM, you’re getting screwed big time 😂🤣


GB. LOL! I think I need more coffee.


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## becolossal (Jul 27, 2022)

I suspect it’ll be priced very similarly to OT’s Berlin products. Cost to acquire all their strings is in the neighborhood of $2k. Maybe a little cheaper due to ensembles being a part of Foundations, but that’s the price range I’m expecting.


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## RogiervG (Jul 27, 2022)

becolossal said:


> I suspect it’ll be priced very similarly to OT’s Berlin products. Cost to acquire all their strings is in the neighborhood of $2k. Maybe a little cheaper due to ensembles being a part of Foundations, but that’s the price range I’m expecting.


I think its more in the berlin bundle range 2K for everything basic (non pro, thus lesser mics) and 2.5K for the pro version (all mics)
And maybe a one mic version for 1200 ish
this, only when taken into account, ABMO will be of no less than 5 velocity layers for each patch/articulation, has at least 10 round robins per patch, outstanding legatos, at least 15 articulations per instrument, fully customisable CC settings and routing options, very lean in memory usage, very fast loading, has also a choir included and soloist singers and a piano. ( some people get this piano joke..  : hint "L... is calling" )

but jokes aside....

anyway... we will have no idea how much the complete orchestra will cost, perhaps even SA doesn't even know yet.. also we don't know what it contains and how it will be available: everything separately available (solo violin, solo violins consords, violins 1, violins 1 consords, trumpet, trumpets, trumpet mutes, trumpets mutes etc etc etc etc, or only instruments groups: violins (which also includes solo violin and violins 2)


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## Vik (Jul 27, 2022)

Isn't speculations about the price kind of futile until we know how deep-sampled it is, and how modular it is?

For instance – will it be possible to buy one instrument at a time (eg. cellos)?

If there's lots of multiple layers in there, will light versions be offered (as standalone products or as part of the full package), with fewer levels?

Will the section sizes also be modular, meaning: will there be separate modules with for instance 3, 5 and 7 players, allowing us to create 6 different section sizes (3, 5, 8, 10, 12 and 15 players)?

Will they record (some of) the sessions with two different signal chains, essentially giving us the worth of two different libraries (where users could choose to buy both or either of the two packages)?


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## Denkii (Jul 27, 2022)

How modular is it?
Say we can buy seperate instruments, do I have to buy all mic signals at once or can I choose which ones to buy?
A man can dream.
Don't make me pay for 100 % of the content when I am going to delete 60 % of it anyway (looking at you, BBCSO).


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## Vik (Jul 27, 2022)

Denkii said:


> Say we can buy seperate instruments, do I have to buy all mic signals at once or can I choose which ones to buy?


Yes... I think this will be an option used in more and more libraries. Since they tend to grow larger and therefore more expensive, such options will become increasingly more important. For the records, Spitfire has done this for many years already, to a certain degree, with their Core and Pro versions (except that one couldn't buy only the mic positions in the pro package, probably for financial reasons.


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## Denkii (Jul 27, 2022)

I just don't see a world where we would not pay a inadequate premium if we don't stick to pure bundling products that have a way smaller target user base (pro versions of the SSO for example).
Spitfire doesn't strike me as a company who would want to forfeit the supposed "saving" USP for pure bundled products.

E.g. the difference between the content of BBCSO Core vs. PRO is massive for a reason. And the cost to usefulness optimum is arguably somewhere in between, not close to what PRO costs.
I don't think this will change a whole lot.


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## Mike Stone (Jul 27, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I generally prefer a buggy release sooner over a pristine release that takes forever to appear. But I also expect a buggy release to have the bugs quickly quashed. And that often seems to take longer than it should. I don’t complain when there are bugs at release but I will complain when it’s a year later and those bugs still haven’t been fixed.


I completely disagree, but I don't mind a proper discussion.  I bought several Spitfire libraries a few months ago, and spent a lot of time documenting and sending in bug reports. That's not something I ever want to do again, it's boring and time-consuming, and drains my energy and musical creativity.

One thing's for sure, I'm not going to buy another buggy v1.0 library - from Spitfire or anyone else, and have the company rely in its users to report and identify the bugs. I mean, they already got your money, and who knows how well the final "patched" result will be anyway. In that case, I'd rather wait another 6-12 months, until the the library's patched properly. There's enough of high quality libraries out there already, it's not like we're lacking in options of sample libraries these days...


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## muziksculp (Jul 27, 2022)

Hopefully *AR-1 Modular Orchestra* will not be buggy upon release.

That's not something I want to deal with. Maybe some very minor bugs that do not affect using it is OK, provided they can be fixed ASAP via a speedy update in a matter of a week max.

I don't think anyone paying a premium price for a high-end library would feel comfortable, or happy if the library is buggy to a degree that hinders using it properly at a ver. 1.0 release.


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## jbuhler (Jul 27, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> I completely disagree, but I don't mind a proper discussion.  I bought several Spitfire libraries a few months ago, and spent a lot of time documenting and sending in bug reports. That's not something I ever want to do again, it's boring and time-consuming, and drains my energy and musical creativity.
> 
> One thing's for sure, I'm not going to buy another buggy v1.0 library - from Spitfire or anyone else, and have the compony rely in its users to report and identify the bugs. I mean, they already got your money, and who knows how well the final "patched" result will be anyway. In that case, I'd rather wait another 6-12 months, until the the library's patched properly. There's enough of high quality libraries out there already, it's not like we're lacking in options of sample libraries these days...


I don't know. If the bugs get fixed soon after they are reported, then I don't mind doing the reporting. Too often, though, you report the bug and then silence. That definitely drains energy and creativity. And it's certainly irritating as hell when you encounter that bug that you reported years ago and it's still not fixed...


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## jbuhler (Jul 27, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully *AR-1 Modular Orchestra* will not be buggy upon release.
> 
> That's not something I want to deal with. Maybe some very minor bugs that do not affect using it is OK, provided they can be fixed ASAP via a speedy update in a matter of a week max.
> 
> I don't think anyone paying a premium price for a high-end library would feel comfortable, or happy if the library is buggy to a degree that hinders using it properly at a ver. 1.0 release.


I can guarantee there will be people complaining about bugs and the SF player. Likely the price and the legato, and the tuning, and how the shorts are cut too precisely or not precisely enough, etc., etc. There will be no shortage of complaints. It's the way of our people.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 27, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I can guarantee there will be people complaining about bugs and the SF player. Likely the price and the legato, and the tuning, and how the shorts are cut too precisely or not precisely enough, etc., etc. There will be no shortage of complaints. It's the way of our people.


And knowing Spitfire, many of those complaints will be justified


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Jul 27, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I can guarantee there will be people complaining about bugs and the SF player. Likely the price and the legato, and the tuning, and how the shorts are cut too precisely or not precisely enough, etc., etc. There will be no shortage of complaints. It's the way of our people.


And it's true! We are the engine of progress!


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## jbuhler (Jul 27, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> And knowing Spitfire, many of those complaints will be justified


Maybe, maybe not. In fact I personally haven't experienced their instruments being buggier than other company's libraries.


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## mybadmemory (Jul 27, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Maybe, maybe not. In fact I personally haven't experienced their instruments being buggier than other company's libraries.


Same here. For me I’d even go as far as saying they’re are the only ones that do what I want, and find almost every other developers libraries tricker to play and work with. It’s all highly subjective, depending on your wants, needs and expectations.


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## Reznov981 (Aug 7, 2022)

Hey all, just thinking about what I'd like to be my workhorse orchestral library and this Modular Orchestra is a strong consideration.
Thing is, if it's not going to even *start* being released in parts for a whole year from now, I'll get something else. I have BBCSO pro and it's great, but some limited dynamic layers and RRs and all the rest that everyone complains about lead me to want something a bit more deeply sampled. Reckon I should wait for AR Modular, or just go for something like Pacific as it comes out, which looks/sounds amazing so far.
Would really love anyone's thoughts, thanks.
❤️💖❤️


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## mybadmemory (Aug 7, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Hey all, just thinking about what I'd like to be my workhorse orchestral library and this Modular Orchestra is a strong consideration.
> Thing is, if it's not going to even *start* being released in parts for a whole year from now, I'll get something else. I have BBCSO pro and it's great, but some limited dynamic layers and RRs and all the rest that everyone complains about lead me to want something a bit more deeply sampled. Reckon I should wait for AR Modular, or just go for something like Pacific as it comes out, which looks/sounds amazing so far.
> Would really love anyone's thoughts, thanks.
> ❤️💖❤️


If you like BBC, but want something deeper sampled, and can’t wait for AR modular, many people seem to like the Cinematic Studio Series, even though the percussion is still not out. Have you checked out Mattia Chappias videos on BBC and CSS? He basically went from using primarily BBC to gradually incorporating more and more of CSS, and eventually landing on mostly CSS with a bit of BBC still in there.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 7, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Hey all, just thinking about what I'd like to be my workhorse orchestral library and this Modular Orchestra is a strong consideration.
> Thing is, if it's not going to even *start* being released in parts for a whole year from now, I'll get something else. I have BBCSO pro and it's great, but some limited dynamic layers and RRs and all the rest that everyone complains about lead me to want something a bit more deeply sampled. Reckon I should wait for AR Modular, or just go for something like Pacific as it comes out, which looks/sounds amazing so far.
> Would really love anyone's thoughts, thanks.
> ❤️💖❤️


Wait for AR Modular - Spitfire is likely going to knock it out of the park with that library. They have been getting better and better at making recordings, starting with BBCSO, in the sense they really know how to capture the room sound beautifully now. Adding to this, they've been experimenting with improving legato in the Appassionata Strings library which we are many people that thinks sounds superb. So save your money, wait for AR Modular  It is probably going to be expensive so you will need your money then.


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## Reznov981 (Aug 7, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> If you like BBC, but want something deeper sampled, and can’t wait for AR modular, many people seem to like the Cinematic Studio Series, even though the percussion is still not out. Have you checked out Mattia Chappias videos on BBC and CSS? He basically went from using primarily BBC to gradually incorporating more and more of CSS, and eventually landing on mostly CSS with a bit of BBC still in there.


I really appreciate this response, thank you! Keen for others to weigh in if they feel inclined.

I don't want to hijack this thread, so I will say to keep it on topic if there's anything we strongly suspect for an announcement date...
We really don't know anything, do we?


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## Reznov981 (Aug 7, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Wait for AR Modular - Spitfire is likely going to knock it out of the park with that library. They have been getting better and better at making recordings, starting with BBCSO, in the sense they really know how to capture the room sound beautifully now. Adding to this, they've been experimenting with improving legato in the Appassionata Strings library which we are many people that thinks sounds superb. So save your money, wait for AR Modular  It is probably going to be expensive so you will need your money then.


Gotta hold off my GAS long enough  but you're definitely right that I might kick myself if I buy into an existing library just to then hear the announcement of AR Modular!


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## titokane (Aug 7, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Gotta hold off my GAS long enough  but you're definitely right that I might kick myself if I buy into an existing library just to then hear the announcement of AR Modular!


Yep — I made the same choice to avoid buying any other orchestral libraries after BBC and to just wait for Abbey Road Modular as my next big upgrade.

I have since spent thousands of dollars on many other orchestral libraries 😅 but hey I’m still looking forward to Abbey Road!!


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## RogiervG (Aug 7, 2022)

titokane said:


> Yep — I made the same choice to avoid buying any other orchestral libraries after BBC and to just wait for Abbey Road Modular as my next big upgrade.
> 
> I have since spent thousands of dollars on many other orchestral libraries 😅 but hey I’m still looking forward to Abbey Road!!


You can never have enough strings *orchestra's*


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## dunamisstudio (Sep 26, 2022)

Took one for the team and asked the question.


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## Baronvonheadless (Sep 26, 2022)

Nice! I asked when the portamento bugs in AR2 pro mics will be fixed? Haha


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## Reznov981 (Sep 26, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> Took one for the team and asked the question.


Brilliant. I want to do this as well!
EDIT: I have now done it as well😁

P.S. I legitimately believe they will give some info on the release if enough people pester them about it. I'm serious guys, please please pester them with this question opportunity! Ask about ARMO! Make them talk!!!


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## Reznov981 (Sep 26, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Nice! I asked when the portamento bugs in AR2 pro mics will be fixed? Haha


Paul's *very excited* to tell you they won't be


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## chrisav (Sep 27, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> Took one for the team and asked the question.


I did the exact same thing!


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## ridgero (Sep 27, 2022)

I asked: 

„Is Paul excited?“


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## dcoscina (Sep 27, 2022)

chrisav said:


> I did the exact same thing!


me three. Really looking forward to this one.


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## Justin L. Franks (Sep 27, 2022)

Where is the question thing?


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## RogiervG (Sep 27, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Where is the question thing?


looks like instagram (i have no account for)


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## muziksculp (Sep 27, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> looks like instagram (i have no account for)


I checked instagram, but it's not showing there.


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## Daren Audio (Sep 27, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I checked instagram, but it's not showing there.


It was an Instagram "Story" post. Click on the profile pic.


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## dunamisstudio (Sep 27, 2022)

It was on Instagram. Like Daren said, click on their profile pic and it will show you their latest stories. Stories last 24 hours unless they save it. So should live another six.


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## muziksculp (Sep 27, 2022)

Daren Audio said:


> It was an Instagram "Story" post. Click on the profile pic.


OK. I see it now. 

Thanks. 

I wonder if we are getting closer now.


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## dunamisstudio (Sep 27, 2022)

I hope it's modular or last selection, high string legato?


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## tjr (Sep 27, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> I hope it's modular or last selection, high string legato?



I hope they've already recorded the high strings package! It seems likely to me it would be released yet this year, based on the pace of the previous packages. If they haven't even recorded it yet... another year?


----------



## RogiervG (Sep 27, 2022)

tjr said:


> If they haven't even recorded it yet... another year?


you don't say


----------



## muziksculp (Sep 27, 2022)

I wouldn't be very surprised if it never gets a high-strings legato expansion. 

Preparing to be underwhelmed.


----------



## Reznov981 (Sep 27, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I checked instagram, but it's not showing there.


It's also on Facebook, which is where I did it, for what it's worth.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

Hi,

So.. Is it time we give this thread a bit more attention ?


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

Again .. Paging Mr. @jbuhler !


----------



## styledelk (Nov 4, 2022)

What more needs to be said until it’s released?


----------



## RogiervG (Nov 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> So.. Is it time we give this thread a bit more attention ?



This library (and room) has a massive noise floor... PASS!
just kidding..


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> This library (and room) has a massive noise floor... PASS!
> just kidding..


Yeah, I heard it in the teaser video


----------



## titokane (Nov 4, 2022)

WILD SPECULATION this is about the same time of year that the original Orchestral Foundations library was released (back in 2020). They tend to do big library releases on Thursdays. I'm not sure they've ever given a full week of teasing before a Film Scoring Selection.

mOdUlAr OrChEsTrA nOvEmBeR 10 cOnFiRmEd????

This hype train is all steamed up and ready to choo chooooo.

EDIT: Oh wait they actually posted "first library in our new range" so joke's on me it might actually be happening.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

titokane said:


> WILD SPECULATION this is about the same time of year that the original Orchestral Foundations library was released (back in 2020). They tend to do big library releases on Thursdays. I'm not sure they've ever given a full week of teasing before a Film Scoring Selection.
> 
> mOdUlAr OrChEsTrA nOvEmBeR 10 cOnFiRmEd????
> 
> This hype train is all steamed up and ready to choo chooooo.


Interesting. I wonder when is the next teaser, or announcement. Next week ?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 4, 2022)

Other companies’ optimism for their Black Friday sales after Spitfire’s announcement:


----------



## Reznov981 (Nov 4, 2022)

titokane said:


> EDIT: Oh wait they actually posted "first library in our new range" so joke's on me it might actually be happening.


Where did they say this? EDIT: just saw commercial announcement forum 

And I really can't see ARMO not being given teaser after teaser, pre-announcement and then proper announcement, so I wouldn't get my hopes up about it until they say the name


----------



## titokane (Nov 4, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> Where did they say this? EDIT: just saw commercial announcement forum
> 
> And I really can't see ARMO not being given teaser after teaser, pre-announcement and then proper announcement, so I wouldn't get my hopes up about it until they say the name


After all this time, after everybody calling it the Abbey Road Modular Orchestra (ARMO) for two years, what if they up and call it something else?

My votes:
ARSE: Abbey Road Symphonic Ensemble
SARS: Spitfire Abbey Road Symphony
OH HI MARK: Orchestral Hall Hybrid Instrumental Modular Abbey Road Kitbag


----------



## Reznov981 (Nov 4, 2022)

titokane said:


> After all this time, after everybody calling it the Abbey Road Modular Orchestra (ARMO) for two years, what if they up and call it something else?
> 
> My votes:
> ARSE: Abbey Road Symphonic Ensemble
> ...


I hate how close to real all of these names are...


----------



## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 4, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Other companies’ optimism for their Black Friday sales after Spitfire’s announcement:


Maybe some competitors will actually have a last-minute change of plans and offer exceptionally deep discounts on their orchestral products


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 4, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Maybe some competitors will actually have a last-minute change of plans and offer exceptionally deep discounts on their orchestral products


That would be great!


----------



## Trash Panda (Nov 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> So.. Is it time we give this thread a bit more attention ?



Watch it just be the Abbey Road version of The Stack and the new series is them doing The Stack in a bunch of different recording halls/stages/studios.


----------



## ModalRealist (Nov 4, 2022)

I have my fingers crossed that this will be “next gen” in some way but I’m really braced for it to be about a gazillion mics in an expensive room.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 4, 2022)

My wallet is ready for the modular series ... please have killer legato and hit that nice and brassy FFF cuirve on the brass please!!


----------



## RogiervG (Nov 4, 2022)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> My wallet is ready for the modular series ... please have killer legato and hit that nice and brassy FFF cuirve on the brass please!!


Yes, FFF for all instruments would be nice! (not only the brass)
Spitfire Audio's first Full Dynamics orchestra incoming...


----------



## Denkii (Nov 4, 2022)

How much ahead did the marketing bs start prior to BBCSO's release?
I'd imagine something ARMO related would at least be the same amount of time if not more.


----------



## RogiervG (Nov 4, 2022)

Denkii said:


> How much ahead did the marketing bs start prior to BBCSO's release?
> I'd imagine if this was ARMO related, it would at least be the same amount of time if not more.


Nah.. they've learned that it was way too early.. and people got pretty annoyed.
Also, in these times, you don't have the luxory to do these early campaigns anymore.
Short term, works better. (people hate waiting these days)
Also, BBC SO was a different kind of library, with a different goal (universal starting point and all and a very special library: the BBS SO sampled, which was unique, that a famous orchestra agreed to be sampled)


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## Denkii (Nov 4, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> Nah.. they've learned that it was way too early.. and people got pretty annoyed.


Just like they learned that people are annoyed by their sloppy editing and subpar legato over and over again?
Let's hope they learned both of those things.
ARMO has the potential to be great.


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## RogiervG (Nov 4, 2022)

Denkii said:


> Just like they learned that people are annoyed by their sloppy editing and subpart legato over and over again?
> Let's hope they learned both of those things.
> ARMO has the potential to be great.


yes, i hope they got their acts together and made a stunning library series, that deals with the "sloppy" past once and for all (and seriously rivals the competition in the top range).

e.g.
I love and use the sound of Symphony Complete Professional and Chamber Strings professional, with sound i mean the warmth, the lushness, room. But the inconsitencies between articulations, the sometimes less than ideal legato's on some instruments/sections and the lacking of the higher dynamics than f (it's closer to mf to my ears) is a letdown for me (sometimes you need to have a serious fortissimo/fortississimo punch here and there.).
Appassionata (which i also use and love) is in contrast a nice library that does things a lot better.


----------



## FinGael (Nov 4, 2022)

titokane said:


> After all this time, after everybody calling it the Abbey Road Modular Orchestra (ARMO) for two years, what if they up and call it something else?
> 
> My votes:
> ARSE: Abbey Road Symphonic Ensemble
> ...


"Armo" means grace or mercy in Finnish. My battery-powered (not that NI thingy) crystal ball is currently showing many severe cases of GAS being redeemed, and the heavy burden of having money being lifted off the shoulders of many studio creatures.

Let there be light.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 4, 2022)

Denkii said:


> Just like they learned that people are annoyed by their sloppy editing and subpar legato over and over again?
> Let's hope they learned both of those things.
> ARMO has the potential to be great.


Well if Appassionata Strings are any indication, then yes.


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 4, 2022)

Looks like the sort of early hype you’d expect from a bigger release.

But..they better make haste and get it shipped, else the marketing window will clash with Black Friday.

(Which is a strike against it being the mod orchestra I guess, but I’m not going there!)


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## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Looks like the sort of early hype you’d expect from a bigger release.
> 
> But..they better get it out the door quick haste, else the marketing window will clash with Black Friday.


I agree, our budget for library purchases would have shrunk considerably by the end of the BF sale season, to afford a mega modular orchestra from SA. Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock ... $$$


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## gst98 (Nov 4, 2022)

Aside from the usual suspects, strings, winds, brass and perc, I'd been wondering if we're going to see a whole expanded line-up? Harp, piano, epic perc, chamber/other section-sized strings?


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## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

gst98 said:


> Aside from the usual suspects, strings, winds, brass and perc, I'd been wondering if we're going to see a whole expanded line-up? Harp, piano, epic perc, chamber/other section-sized strings?


Why Not. But those would be future releases. I think their main objective would be to release the core modular sections of AR1 Modular Orch. first.

I also think that the timing of the teaser today, signals that they will be releasing the first AR-1 MO module during or right before BF. to catch the spending frenzy before we are all broke.


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## tjr (Nov 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I agree, our budget for library purchases would have shrunk considerably by the end of the BF sale season, to afford a mega modular orchestra from SA. Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock ... $$$


I was a bit annoyed when they released AR2 strings after the BF season last year. Had already spent (actually overspent) my carefully allocated (or maybe not so carefully allocated) plugins budget.


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## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

Hi,

I think this maybe something very important we should discuss here.

Basically ... Have Spitfire Audio improved their Player to work very efficiently with AR1-Modular Orch. and with many of the current libraries that use their player that have issues, from efficiency, slow-loading, and other issues users have been complaining about for quite some time, i.e. AR-2 Iconic Strings super slow load times, and inability to use more than one mic, since loading more than one mic causes audio clicks, due to poor streaming efficiency.

Who wants to buy into a super heavyweight new library that is not going to run super efficiently in their player.

I think SA should make sure these issues are fixed, or the level of confidence in using their player will be the main reason they won't be selling their new shiny enterprise level Modular Orch. Library. in big numbers.

Your thoughts, and comments about this detail are welcome here.

Oh, and here is link to a discussion about this issue on VI-C

https://vi-control.net/community/th...solve-issues-when-using-multiple-mics.122741/

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## pranic (Nov 4, 2022)

I suspect the teaser this week is for the final of the scoring selections, but would be absolutely pleasantly surprised with the ARMO, or ARSE or SARS (that would be the only version of SARS I'd be happy with getting).

Edit: _I also just read the quote on Spitfire's thread, so stand very correctted. "for the launch of the first library in our new range, created in partnership with Abbey Road Studios"_


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## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

pranic said:


> I suspect the teaser this week is for the final of the scoring selections, but would be absolutely pleasantly surprised with the ARMO, or ARSE or SARS (that would be the only version of SARS I'd be happy with getting).
> 
> Edit: _I also just read the quote on Spitfire's thread, so stand very correctted. "for the launch of the first library in our new range, created in partnership with Abbey Road Studios"_


Yeah.. Buckle Up ! 

The teaser is about the new AR1MO, not AROOF.


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## bfreepro (Nov 4, 2022)

Started to post this on the commercial thread but this would be a better place for it. Regarding the new announcement:
I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict it's the exact same mic signals as ARO and just individual sections with more articulations, MAYBE the same dynamic layers, though I'm guessing it'll mostly be 3 instead of 5. Articulations will probably be exactly the same as BBCSO and SSO- longs, shorts, extra extra extra flautando, all that kind of stuff. Performance legato almost guaranteed for the strings, hopefully brass and woods too. And I'm just predicting here, not implying that would be disappointing to me, because this room and their sampling quality is impeccable.

What I really want from them is louder dynamics (FFF) and pre-recorded swells/arcs (like 8dio century strings/brass), and start to actually implement the amazing polyphonic legato (maybe auto divisi too) that we get in other libraries (afflatus, Dominus, Modern scoring strings and brass, etc). Their sound is amazing and I own a crapload of their stuff, but things like that hold them back a bit. It's great, amazing rooms, fantastic sound, but I want them to take the next step and have more expression and make the workflow faster. Appasionata and Fractured Strings were a huge step in the right direction. ARO contained "swells" but it was really just crescendos.

There are many companies really pushing the limits with some truly next gen technology BESIDES just offering amazing samples. Look at the recent ProjectSAM stuff like Pandora, their runs library, or their 2.0 updates to the old Symphobias- Polylegato and everything completely synced to the DAWs tempo (runs, rolls, crescendos)... This is HUGE for workflow and ease of use. All in Kontakt still. Spitfire has the utmost sampling quality, I so badly want them to catch up on the tech side and give us something really groundbreaking in that aspect. Their performance legato is some of the best stuff I've ever played. I want more of that thinking. It speeds things up, makes it possible to play things that were previously not possible. I feel the same when I load up something like Modern Scoring Strings and it just effortlessly flows with polyphonic legato AND auto divisi. That kind of implementation PLUS the legendary rooms/halls they've captured would seriously be insane. 

Show us something that's seriously gonna change the we way work and make things easier instead of a new orchestra in a new room playing the same articulations. THAT's the stuff that really gets me excited these days.


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## bfreepro (Nov 4, 2022)

I'll also note I do not have high hopes for the things I mentioned from the previous post in their new player. Kontakt has been developed and improved upon for over a decade. The new samplers we have just don't even come close (yet) besides Synchron Player. OPUS is pretty darn good now too. But look how long it took them!

SA Plugin isn't even multi-timbral.
SINE Player can't even do the same things that the Berlin collections could do in Kontakt, like having 3 velocity triggers instead of just 2 (like soft attack with low velocity, regular attack with medium velocity, and hard/spiccato overlay at high velocity.)
Cinesamples Musio can't do the same things as Kontakt (like polyphonic legato) and they even flat out came out and said they have no intention of making it happen, the tech just isn't there yet.

The market for the major players is now mostly for easier accessibility and profit margin (which completely makes sense for them). How can we get more people to buy our stuff and make it simpler to get into. Again, as a business it makes complete sense. The VI junkies like us are the minority. But just when things were starting to get REALLY good on Kontakt haha. I love that we still have smaller devs really doing some groundbreaking stuff with it.

Not trying to be a downer or complain, just an observation and simply the way things are moving and the inevitable arc of any passionate business as it grows. Why would they focus only on super-niche and time consuming tech and ideas when the other stuff sells like hotcakes and appeals to a much larger customer base.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 4, 2022)

I'll just be happy if I can do something like this without the insane amount of hoop jumping and workarounds required with this attempt in AROOF.

One Winged Angel Rebirth AROOF (no Scoring Selections) attempt:
View attachment FF7 Remake - One Winged Angel Rebirth (Preview) 11-29-2021.mp3


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 4, 2022)

Keep in mind Spitfire always has a price point in mind when making a new library.

Therefore I think it’s unlikely they have captured 10 dynamic layers or whatever for the instruments in this new library.

It will simply be too expensive and the price point would have to be set incredibly high.

Plus, Spitfire has not uber sampled stuff previously.

They are more focused on width of articulation range + high recording/engineering quality.

Something like 5 dyn. layers on the fundamental, most important articulations sounds realistic.


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## jbuhler (Nov 4, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Keep in mind Spitfire always have a price point in mind when making a new library.
> 
> Therefore I think it’s unlikely they have captured 10 dynamic layers or whatever for the instruments in this new library.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure these inferences hold for this library. From the standpoint of the company, this library will serve to show what SF is capable of, not to sell large numbers of units. This library can in fact lose a fair amount of money—it doesn't need to sell a boatload of copies—and still be a success, so long as it is executed well enough that it secures the company a place at the top of the market in terms of its library making prowess. It's more like the car company designing a car for racing and I don't think they started with a price point on this library the way they did with BBCSO or indeed pretty much every library they have made... 

In any case I don't expect 10 layers—I'm not even convinced 10 layers would work well on machines that will be available over the next 5 years or midi that only has 128 values of resolution—but I'll be disappointed if this is mostly 3 dynamic layers—especially for strings and brass, where there are already many libraries available that show effective use of 5 layers. It needs to place itself near the forefront in all respects. Otherwise they are just remaking SSO for Abbey Road. And though that library may sell a lot of copies, it doesn't do much for the company aside from cannibalizing future sales of SSO (and BBCSO). In which case they would also do better to discontinue SSO. (Still, I can imagine a core version of the new Abbey Road modular priced competitively with SSO.)


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 4, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I'm not sure these inferences hold for this library. From the standpoint of the company, this library will serve to show what SF is capable of, not to sell large numbers of units. This library can in fact lose a fair amount of money—it doesn't need to sell a boatload of copies—and still be a success, so long as it is executed well enough that it secures the company a place at the top of the market in terms of its library making prowess. It's more like the car company designing a car for racing and I don't think they started with a price point on this library the way they did with BBCSO or indeed pretty much every library they have made...
> 
> In any case I don't expect 10 layers—I'm not even convinced 10 layers would work well on machines that will be available over the next 5 years or midi that only has 128 values of resolution—but I'll be disappointed if this is mostly 3 dynamic layers—especially for strings and brass, where there are already many libraries available that show effective use of 5 layers. It needs to place itself near the forefront in all respects. Otherwise they are just remaking SSO for Abbey Road. And though that library may sell a lot of copies, it doesn't do much for the company aside from cannibalizing future sales of SSO (and BBCSO). In which case they would also do better to discontinue SSO. (Still, I can imagine a core version of the new Abbey Road modular priced competitively with SSO.)


I can’t picture Spitfire doing a “prestige flagship spare no expense“-library. At all.

It will be a prestige flagship library for sure, but because of the fantastic recording/engineering quality combined with new scripting techniques like what Spitfire showcased in Appassionata.

So SSO, just in Abbey Road, but with 5 dyn. layers, innovative scripting and most of all: absolutely stellar sound quality.


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## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I can’t picture Spitfire doing a “prestige flagship spare no expense“-library. At all.
> 
> It will be a prestige flagship library for sure, but because of the fantastic recording/engineering quality combined with new scripting techniques like what Spitfire showcased in Appassionata.
> 
> So SSO, just in Abbey Road, but with 5 dyn. layers, innovative scripting and most of all: absolutely stellar sound quality.


I agree, but you left out one important detail.. Their Spitfire Sample PLAYER needs to be improved quite a bit in terms of streaming efficiency so one can use the multiple mics without major audio issues, super fast load times, RAM Purge, ADSR Envelopes, More Pro features., Velocity Response curve adjustment, ..etc. etc.


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## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

For me the EW-OPUS Player, and VSL's Synchron Players are the two best Players, Kontakt is good, but not as good as these two. a Lot depends on the Kontakt library developer to add the bells and whistles to their library via the developer tools NI offers, and scripting expertise. SINE also needs some more work, and improvements, then at the bottom of this list is Spitfire's sample player. It's in the bottom of the stack, and needs a lot of improvements to even become competitive with the others.


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## muziksculp (Nov 4, 2022)

What's the point of providing 10 mic options via their Spitfire Audio Player, when it is not realistic to use more than 2 or three mic options at one time, because the system can't handle it, and begins breaking up, with clicks, and crap all over. It's nice to see these mics on their GUI, but enabling most of them with many instruments, or a full orchestra is purely a fantasy at this time. Plus, add to that the amount of RAM these Mics will require ! Especially since they don't have a proper PURGE feature. 

EW-OPUS wins the prize for best, and most efficient PURGE feature.


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## jbuhler (Nov 4, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I can’t picture Spitfire doing a “prestige flagship spare no expense“-library. At all.
> 
> It will be a prestige flagship library for sure, but because of the fantastic recording/engineering quality combined with new scripting techniques like what Spitfire showcased in Appassionata.
> 
> So SSO, just in Abbey Road, but with 5 dyn. layers, innovative scripting and most of all: absolutely stellar sound quality.


I'm not sure we now have much in dispute. Five good effective dynamic layers across the line will be a vast improvement over SSO. Still, I can see them doing, if not exactly a spare no expense library, one that does not need to cut the kinds of corners BBCSO and SSO do—more in line with the original vision of BML (most fully realized in SCS; and almost comically short changed in the clarinets and English horn). And I definitely think that SF will not feel a need to earn back the investment on this immediately. Among other things, if you look at their line up, doing another library that is too close in cost to SSO simply crowds it out. Almost by necessity, AR modular will need to be priced above $3000, if they are going to offer the normal discounts during sales and likely higher maybe much higher. They might offer a core version—no or very limited mic selection, only core instruments and articulations—for the price of SSO pro at full price.

Then, too, the one thing SF seems to care most about is its brand, and the best way to furbish that brand (and that will resound across their product line) is to produce a stellar library that no one can complain about in terms of QA. 



muziksculp said:


> I agree, but you left out one important detail.. Their Spitfire Sample PLAYER needs to be improved quite a bit in terms of streaming efficiency so one can use the multiple mics without major audio issues, super fast load times, RAM Purge, ADSR Envelopes, More Pro features., Velocity Response curve adjustment, ..etc. etc.


I've not had issues with streaming multiple mics in any SF player library except Symphonic Motions. AR2 seems to be giving folks the most trouble, but I don't have that. Load times have been fine for me. You likely know this and are just using shorthand, but the Player has a basic velocity response curve adjustment, but no adjustments beyond the basic curve shape. Agreed that it would be nice to be able to tweak many of these other parameters and rather perplexing that there has been so little basic development done on the player. And my biggest wish these days is that it had multitimbral capabilities so you could set up multis within the plugin. It would make setting up certain things the way I want them much easier.


----------



## lettucehat (Nov 4, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I'm not sure we now have much in dispute. Five good effective dynamic layers across the line will be a vast improvement over SSO. Still, I can see them doing, if not exactly a spare no expense library, one that does not need to cut the kinds of corners BBCSO and SSO do—more in line with the original vision of BML (most fully realized in SCS; and almost comically short changed in the clarinets and English horn). And I definitely think that SF will not feel a need to earn back the investment on this immediately. Among other things, if you look at their line up, doing another library that is too close in cost to SSO simply crowds it out. Almost by necessity, AR modular will need to be priced above $3000, if they are going to offer the normal discounts during sales and likely higher maybe much higher. They might offer a core version—no or very limited mic selection, only core instruments and articulations—for the price of SSO pro at full price.
> 
> Then, too, the one thing SF seems to care most about is its brand, and the best way to furbish that brand (and that will resound across their product line) is to produce a stellar library that no one can complain about in terms of QA.



The build on this, I think we should also keep in mind that this may be the final word from Spitfire on the matter for the foreseeable future. They are big on venue, and for good reason. Unlike say, VSL and OT who pick one great place and continually iterate with new orchestral offerings (especially VSL) that are differentiated by many other factors that aren’t venue. But Spitfire locked up the holy grail with AR - even if it’s not your personal favorite room, it’s hard to imagine another room that will outdo it in the sampling world in terms of prestige and marketability. Anyway, they have a long time to recoup costs on this one and indeed the “halo” effect for the brand shouldn’t be underrated. They can go all out with this if they want to, but of course they can just recreate SSO while addressing its flaws and it will sell at a more affordable price as well.


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## ridgero (Nov 5, 2022)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> My wallet is ready for the modular series ... please have killer legato and hit that nice and brassy FFF cuirve on the brass please!!


Love the picture on the display 🤣


----------



## ridgero (Nov 5, 2022)

This will be a very expensive library, maybe around 4-6k?

The British Modular Library (BML) came in around 20 modules.

*Strings*


Sable Strings Vol 1 £478.80
Sable Strings Vol 2 £478.80
Sable Strings Vol 3 £358.80
Sable Strings Vol 4 £178.80
Sable Ensembles £298.80
Mural Strings Vol 1 £478.80
Mural Strings Vol 2 £478.80
Mural Ensembles £298.80

*Woodwinds*


Flute Consort Vol 1 £238.80
Additional Flutes £202.80
Low Reeds Vol 1 £202.80
Low Winds Vol 1 £202.80

*Brass*


Horn Section Vol 1 £202.80
Horn Phalanx £178.80
Trumpet Corps Vol 1 £298.80
Bones Vol 1 £334.80
Low Brass £294
Trumpet Phalanx TBC
Bone Phalanx TBC


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## RogiervG (Nov 5, 2022)

ridgero said:


> This will be a very expensive library, maybe around 4-6k?
> 
> The British Modular Library (BML) came in around 20 modules.
> 
> ...


different times, different prices. in the current economical climate, 4k is way too high


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## zimm83 (Nov 5, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I agree, but you left out one important detail.. Their Spitfire Sample PLAYER needs to be improved quite a bit in terms of streaming efficiency so one can use the multiple mics without major audio issues, super fast load times, RAM Purge, ADSR Envelopes, More Pro features., Velocity Response curve adjustment, ..etc. etc.


Kontakt !!!


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## The Gost (Nov 5, 2022)

zimm83 said:


> Kontakt !!!


They won't go back to Kontakt, too much hacking.....


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 5, 2022)

zimm83 said:


> Kontakt !!!


Not necessarily. I personally enjoy the GUI, but I too was heavily hit by a performance of BBC Pro. Hope they can optimize the engine.


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## muziksculp (Nov 5, 2022)

zimm83 said:


> Kontakt !!!


EW-OPUS Player !!


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## ridgero (Nov 5, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> different times, different prices. in the current economical climate, 4k is way too high


Actually the price must be higher than

Can you imagine, that the whole BML was so expensive back than and lost through discounts so much value?

Back than I remember Spitfire saying they don’t do sales. 😅😅😅

„
*DO YOU DO BUNDLES OR EVER HAVE ANY SALES?

A.* Being a British company, many in our organisation have used the British Rail network. For those not familiar, every time you sit down on a British train there is always the sense that you could have got your ticket for cheaper as there are so many discount schemes. At Spitfire we want you to be confident that you’re paying the price we think the product is valued as. We don’t want to trick you into buying something that is going on a “whacky” sale next week, so we don’t have those sales, we just keep stuff as reasonably priced as possible. One exception to this is V1.0 promos, most of our products are released at discount as a reward for those prepared to adopt a V1.0 product into their workflow. The easiest way to find out about upcoming releases is to join our mailing list HERE or subscribe to our calendar HERE.“

2013


----------



## RogiervG (Nov 5, 2022)

ridgero said:


> Actually the price must be higher than
> 
> Can you imagine, that the whole BML was so expensive back than and lost through discounts so much value?
> 
> ...


lol, still 2k to 2.5k maximum for sarmo (spitfire abbey road modular orchestra), i think would be wise


----------



## Francisco Lamolda (Nov 5, 2022)

ridgero said:


> "We don’t want to trick you into buying something that is going on a “whacky” sale next week, so we don’t have those sales, we just keep stuff as reasonably priced as possible."
> 
> 2013


Well, since 2013 we got the rise of digital sales such as Steam and mainly the Black Friday. A lot of time has passed since then and many changes in consumer habits have occurred.


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## axb312 (Nov 5, 2022)

Fingers crossed that Spitfire Limits mic options to 3-4 (Maybe Close, Tree, Far and Mix) and ups the ante in terms of sampling depth instead.

Personally don't want libraries with Tons of mics at the cost of sampling depth.


----------



## ridgero (Nov 5, 2022)

Francisco Lamolda said:


> Well, since 2013 we got the rise of digital sales such as Steam and mainly the Black Friday. A lot of time has passed since then and many changes in consumer habits have occurred.


Those sales & Black Friday discounts existed before

Nevermind, it's still interesting and incomprehensible to me how much a company would devalue sales/discounts and even call it "whacky" and then do a 180-degree turn. That’s not congruent.


----------



## mybadmemory (Nov 5, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Personally don't want libraries with Tons of mics at the cost of sampling depth.


I don’t think it’s a choice between either or. You probably have a budget and sample as much as you can depth wise using that time. Adding sample depth adds more time meaning a much higher cost. Sampling more mics however doesn’t add much time to the sampling process and is therefore something you can choose to do for much cheaper. I assume this is true both for the sampling itself as well as the editing of the samples.


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## axb312 (Nov 5, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> I don’t think it’s a choice between either or. You probably have a budget and sample as much as you can depth wise using that time. Adding sample depth adds more time meaning a much higher cost. Sampling more mics however doesn’t add much time to the sampling process and is therefore something you can choose to do for much cheaper. I assume this is true both for the sampling itself as well as the editing of the samples.


I agree that the sampling itself would probably not affect costs. I do believe that the editing does cost time and money though, especially if QA is particularly thorough.

I personally do not need so many mics.


----------



## holywilly (Nov 5, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> EW-OPUS Player !!


Synchron Player!!


----------



## Corda1983 (Nov 5, 2022)

ridgero said:


> This will be a very expensive library, maybe around 4-6k?
> 
> The British Modular Library (BML) came in around 20 modules.
> 
> ...


I think times have changed a lot since then (I hope!). I can’t imagine any section being much more than £400-600. Spitfire have a much better chance of selling 5000 units at £500 than 1000 units at £1,200.

It also hopefully won’t be too modular. Individual sections for sure, perhaps some extended techniques or specialist soloists later down the line, but I think they’ll still make the bread and butter of the library a single volume per section.


----------



## mybadmemory (Nov 5, 2022)

axb312 said:


> I agree that the sampling itself would probably not affect costs. I do believe that the editing does cost time and money though, especially if QA is particularly thorough.
> 
> I personally do not need so many mics.


Yeah but editing multiple mics in the same way can probably be automated in a way that editing deeper sampling can’t since those samples can’t be cut “together” and need to be scripted as well.


----------



## icecoolpool (Nov 5, 2022)

ridgero said:


> Those sales & Black Friday discounts existed before
> 
> Nevermind, it's still interesting and incomprehensible to me how much a company would devalue sales/discounts and even call it "whacky" and then do a 180-degree turn. That’s not congruent.


Since 2013, the world has changed massively in countless ways, not least in the realm of orchestral sampling. To ignore those changes in order to stick to a decade old business plan would be foolhardy at best.

Adapt or die.


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## gst98 (Nov 5, 2022)

Corda1983 said:


> I think times have changed a lot since then (I hope!). I can’t imagine any section being much more than £400-600. Spitfire have a much better chance of selling 5000 units at £500 than 1000 units at £1,200.
> 
> It also hopefully won’t be too modular. Individual sections for sure, perhaps some extended techniques or specialist soloists later down the line, but I think they’ll still make the bread and butter of the library a single volume per section.


Yes but they’ll probably segment the market just like with BBC. They have those willing to enter in at the premium price and then cater a version for something more affordable. I think AR2 has already shown us that is what they’re going to do.


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## styledelk (Nov 5, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> What's the point of providing 10 mic options via their Spitfire Audio Player, when it is not realistic to use more than 2 or three mic options at one time, because the system can't handle it, and begins breaking up, with clicks, and crap all over. It's nice to see these mics on their GUI, but enabling most of them with many instruments, or a full orchestra is purely a fantasy at this time. Plus, add to that the amount of RAM these Mics will require ! Especially since they don't have a proper PURGE feature.
> 
> EW-OPUS wins the prize for best, and most efficient PURGE feature.


I turn on 4-5 of the mics pretty regularly these days. Mac Studio. Cracks and pops only happen at a buffer less than 512 when doing this.


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## styledelk (Nov 5, 2022)

Why should developers be limited to making things work (in their totality, at least) for older hardware? You got old hardware? Use a mix or a couple mics. You got new hardware? Use all the mics. 

This is how innovation is held back. Want 10 dynamic layers? Ok, upgrade your damn computer. Don't complain to the developer that their shit doesn't work on your 5 or 10 year old Mac. Because composers stay on this old shit, developers are nervous to expand the possibilities because "it won't work on my computer" compounds and people are scared away from buying it.
Users are as much the problem.


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 5, 2022)

styledelk said:


> Why should developers be limited to making things work (in their totality, at least) for older hardware? You got old hardware? Use a mix or a couple mics. You got new hardware? Use all the mics.
> 
> This is how innovation is held back. Want 10 dynamic layers? Ok, upgrade your damn computer. Don't complain to the developer that their shit doesn't work on your 5 or 10 year old Mac. Because composers stay on this old shit, developers are nervous to expand the possibilities because "it won't work on my computer" compounds and people are scared away from buying it.
> Users are as much the problem.


Entirely not the case with Spitfire player. It stutters on voice counts that other engines do with ease.


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## styledelk (Nov 5, 2022)

It’s definitely not perfect. But there are workarounds.


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 5, 2022)

styledelk said:


> It’s definitely not perfect. But there are workarounds.


What for example?


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## styledelk (Nov 5, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> What for example?


Up your buffers. Modify the ASIO Guard settings, etc. I've never truly run into a problem that couldn't be solved.
Use different tracks with different mics. Only use extended mics when printing to audio.
Of course other players are better. But they're solving the problems different ways and all will hit the computing limits if pushed.

I don't know, philosophically I want developers building software for tomorrow's computers. I'll take some pain today.


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## blaggins (Nov 5, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I agree, but you left out one important detail.. Their Spitfire Sample PLAYER needs to be improved quite a bit in terms of streaming efficiency so one can use the multiple mics without major audio issues, super fast load times, RAM Purge, ADSR Envelopes, More Pro features., Velocity Response curve adjustment, ..etc. etc.


Don't forget time stretch. We once had time machine patches but now there's nothing to extend the shorts...


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 5, 2022)

styledelk said:


> Why should developers be limited to making things work (in their totality, at least) for older hardware? You got old hardware? Use a mix or a couple mics. You got new hardware? Use all the mics.


Nah, I don't know...
See, this isn't about some incredible new feature older or current systems just aren't built for. This is about something all the other major devs managed to pull off but Spitfire seems to struggle with. If their player can't do what other plugins can do on the same hardware, that doesn't mean it's "built for the future", it means it's built inefficiently.


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## styledelk (Nov 5, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Nah, I don't know...
> See, this isn't about some incredible new feature older or current systems just aren't built for. This is about something all the other major devs managed to pull off but Spitfire seems to struggle with. If their player can't do what other plugins can do on the same hardware, that doesn't mean it's "built for the future", it means it's built inefficiently.


Which happens. Software is hard. I’m not saying their player is built for the future now. I’d just hate for them to keep limiting things. 
I think their player has some core flaws from the beginning that they can’t get over without some major overhauls. Which will be very expensive.


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## styledelk (Nov 5, 2022)

blaggins said:


> Don't forget time stretch. We once had time machine patches but now there's nothing to extend the shorts...


I think time stretch algorithms are tough and don’t always sound good. They used what kontakt provided, it was inefficient and didn’t sound perfect then, and still probably wouldn’t. Compromises. Time stretched shorts are a hack to solve the expense ($) of both recording many short varieties and the performance of being able to process the shortening in real-time.


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## holywilly (Nov 5, 2022)

Any BBCSO owners use all mics (including spill) when writing? Or for final production?


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 5, 2022)

styledelk said:


> It’s definitely not perfect. But there are workarounds.


Sure there is: Use sample libraries from another company


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## styledelk (Nov 5, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Sure there is: Use sample libraries from another company


Ahh, but to consider it all interchangable is to reduce this all to commodities. We're not there yet.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 5, 2022)

styledelk said:


> I think their player has some core flaws from the beginning that they can’t get over without some major overhauls. Which will be very expensive.


They have the money to handle this. Thus far, they have chosen not to do it.


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## STMICHAELS (Nov 5, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Sure there is: Use sample libraries from another company





Trash Panda said:


> They have the money to handle this. Thus far, they have chosen not to do it.


Honestly, I am on the fence in purchasing my first set of libraries because of this player issues and it seems to be consistent on these threads.

I know this - i like the sound of Symphonic.

I was so close to BBCSO PRO, however the Mac Studio or PC one would need to run this with decent template seems to have predictable frustrations.

I like the sound of BBCSO, and AROOF Modular sounds great, however if they do not revamp this player I think it will be a very unpleasant experience.

Now I do not own any of these new player libraries, however I am pulling back a little because there seems to be consistency with user experiences. I do not want to be waiting forever to load things or have a lot of technical or clunkiness. 

Still considering however looking strongly at other potential options…


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 5, 2022)

STMICHAELS said:


> Honestly, I am on the fence in purchasing my first set of libraries because of this player issues and it seems to be consistent on these threads.
> 
> I know that i like the sound of Symphonic.
> 
> ...


I would not recommend libs using their player, that’s for sure.

OTOH, to play Devil’s advocate, many people tremendously enjoy using BBCSO.

So it’s not black and white.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 5, 2022)

STMICHAELS said:


> Honestly, I am on the fence in purchasing my first set of libraries because of this player issues and it seems to be consistent on these threads.
> 
> I know this - i like the sound of Symphonic.
> 
> ...


@mybadmemory Hope it’s ok to tag you 🙂 But can you help this user decide what to do?


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## STMICHAELS (Nov 5, 2022)

I would love to hear what AR Modular sounds like though. Still looking forward to seeing this develop. I like the sound of Spitfire Symphonic alot!


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## Flyo (Nov 5, 2022)

Hi anyone’s knows when the sale $10 gift card with code applied ends?


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## mybadmemory (Nov 5, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> @mybadmemory Hope it’s ok to tag you 🙂 But can you help this user decide what to do?


My feeling is that performance issues are mostly reported on PC. Spitfire are Mac users themselves and probably make sure it works for them. I’ve never had any performance issues on Mac. 

Loading times are a different story. They definitely seem to be slightly slower than Kontakt or other players. It’s not slow enough to keep me away from using it but could certainly be improved. 

Part of it is probably the fact that all patches load with all articulations by default and there are a lot of them. They can however be removed to only load the ones you like and want.

If you’re on PC caution might be wise. If you’re on fast Mac Studio though? I’d be surprised if it didn’t run it well.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 5, 2022)

SINE was in a much worse shape than Spitfire’s player on my system - for years. Finally, OT made it at least somewhat stable but the UI is still horrid. Never had an issue with the Spitfire player on my Mac. It’s designed in the way my brain appreciates as well.

Definitely want proper purge for both of these though. Opus and Synchron are still the best players (along with our old friend Kontakt of course).

Will Spitfire launch all new, untested player functionality with their most flagship new library? Perhaps…many of their recent libraries had custom playback functionality in the player, but not sure if purge would be something they similarly introduce for a single library.


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## mybadmemory (Nov 5, 2022)

Do anyone know if the spitfire player is actually the same player just with different UI skins, or if it’s actually a new fork of it for every library?


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## styledelk (Nov 5, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> Do anyone know if the spitfire player is actually the same player just with different UI skins, or if it’s actually a new fork of it for every library?


It’s different executables/libs for every library. It seems like the originals and SA and LABS libs use the same branch, but never the same executable. 
This is one of their original sins. So many forks and no unified application to update.


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## ridgero (Nov 5, 2022)

My gut feeling says, that AR1MO will come with redesign of the player - more pro like.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 5, 2022)

I hope they make the big knob way bigger so it takes up more space that’s currently empty.


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## Flyo (Nov 5, 2022)

Flyo said:


> Hi anyone’s knows when the sale $10 gift card with code applied ends?


^When pliss^


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## doctoremmet (Nov 5, 2022)

Flyo said:


> ^When pliss^


31-12-2022. You can look it up in your account.


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## Loerpert (Nov 5, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> Do anyone know if the spitfire player is actually the same player just with different UI skins, or if it’s actually a new fork of it for every library?


I think it's a fork. It it wasn't, we would probably see updates to the player rolled out to every library that uses it.


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## Flyo (Nov 5, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> 31-12-2022. You can look it up in your account.


Thanks Doc, but I’m looking info about the time ends of the code also, to get the additional 30% off on top.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 5, 2022)

Flyo said:


> Thanks Doc, but I’m looking info about the time ends of the code also, to get the additional 30% off on top.


This has not been publicized, so noone knows.


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 5, 2022)

styledelk said:


> Up your buffers. Modify the ASIO Guard settings, etc. I've never truly run into a problem that couldn't be solved.
> Use different tracks with different mics. Only use extended mics when printing to audio.
> Of course other players are better. But they're solving the problems different ways and all will hit the computing limits if pushed.
> 
> I don't know, philosophically I want developers building software for tomorrow's computers. I'll take some pain today.


This could only help so much ... philosophically, I wish I could use BBC same manner I use Hollywood Orchestra, Performance Samples and some others..


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## jbuhler (Nov 5, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> different times, different prices. in the current economical climate, 4k is way too high


I honestly don’t think it is, especially if it is highly modularized so that you can buy individual modules at a relatively low cost. But much depends on how extensive the instrument and articulation sets are. There’s a real risk of offering too little to hit a price point, and the sweet spots in terms of price are already occupied by their other libraries, so they would almost certainly cannibalize sales on those libraries. I mean they could discontinue SSO to make room for the new library and maybe that’s the plan down the road. Or they could realize something closer to the original vision of BML, which they abandoned when they created SSO. 

Everything about AROOF suggests a price point significantly higher than SSO pro. That’s currently $2000. That is, AROOF and supplements are quite a lot higher than Albion One, about $600 vs $450, I would expect that the modular would be similar. That yields a bundle price for AR modular of about $2700. Unbundled price of SSO pro is $4189. So unbundled price of AR modular would be roughly $5600.


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## Flyo (Nov 5, 2022)

Don’t let them these higher price tag ideas! 🤦🏽‍♂️

Who would buy it at such higher prices on these days anyway.


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## RogiervG (Nov 5, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I honestly don’t think it is, especially if it is highly modularized so that you can buy individual modules at a relatively low cost. But much depends on how extensive the instrument and articulation sets are. There’s a real risk of offering too little to hit a price point, and the sweet spots in terms of price are already occupied by their other libraries, so they would almost certainly cannibalize sales on those libraries. I mean they could discontinue SSO to make room for the new library and maybe that’s the plan down the road. Or they could realize something closer to the original vision of BML, which they abandoned when they created SSO.
> 
> Everything about AROOF suggests a price point significantly higher than SSO pro. That’s currently $2000. That is, AROOF and supplements are quite a lot higher than Albion One, about $600 vs $450, I would expect that the modular would be similar. That yields a bundle price for AR modular of about $2700. Unbundled price of SSO pro is $4189. So unbundled price of AR modular would be roughly $5600.



to think of it further, it might sound strange at first, but i think it makes sense:
I think SSO *standard *offerings will discontinue and being replaced by only SSO *PRO* offerings (SSO PRO bundle or SSO PRO Complete bundle: aka with or without percussion), for a new pricepoints 1300 without perc, 1500 with perc.
Then the new modular orchestra (as a whole) can be around 2K for standard and 2.5K for PRO (extra mics)

three symphonic orchestras (size wise), with different tiers and pricepoints (base: BBC PRO, mid: SSO PRO, top: ARMO (PRO) ).

I think that will be a doable spot pricewise. Going higher than 2.5K, means less sales (many cannot afford), less momentum (loss of hype).
As someone has said, better have many sales of lower priceranges (2.5K max), than just a few in high price ranges (> 2.5K).
Continuous cashflows are more important, than occassionals. High priced products become the latter.

I mean pricewise, Spitfire is always low to mid range (cheap to doable), and to be honest that would reflect their QA too (unless they really have improved massively in that area, which is to be seen).
Going very high in price, would also mean their product is bug free, prestine scripting, consistent etc.
people expect that from a certain pricepoint.
So either SA is going to proof they upped their game significantly, and thus can ask a higher pricepoint (which is totally fine with me), or they haven't and the price is more affordable, to reflect the shortcomings.


anyway:
The modular aspect is to be seen how they implement it: a la carte (individual instruments/groups)? or sections (strings, brass, woods, perc) like sso? that could also influence the pricepoint drastically.


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## jbuhler (Nov 5, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> to think of it further:
> I also think SSO standard offerings will discontinue and being replaced by SSO PRO offerings (SSO PRO bundle or SSO PRO Complete bundle: aka with or without percussion), for a new pricepoint: 1500.
> Then the new modular orchestra (as a whole) can be around 2K for standard and 2.5K for PRO (extra mics)
> 
> ...


You may be correct about the final pricing of $2500. I would be surprised at that, and concerned because I think $2500 will yield an unduly compromised product. I still say the full library will come in > $3000 bundled, because I continue to believe the main purpose of the library for SF is brand building not the number of sales: above all it needs to convince users that the full version is on the leading edge of sampled instruments. I do think a core version—few mic positions (maybe only 1 mix), limited instruments, limited articulations—that hits the $2000 mark is possible, even likely, maybe accompanied by a reduction in price for SSO Pro. But the sales line up will basically follow something like: BBCSO pro=SSO core (=$1000); SSO pro = AR1 core (=$2000); AR1 Pro > $3000; all reduced by 30% during the usual sales periods. I believe AR1 Pro instruments will be highly modularized, much like the AROOF selections, making buying into the collection on a limited basis somewhat affordable—or at least not prohibitive.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 5, 2022)

Flyo said:


> Thanks Doc, but I’m looking info about the time ends of the code also, to get the additional 30% off on top.


Flyo, I posted these in the threads discussing the promos, but I'll repost them here in the middle of the ARO discussion too.

$10 Off ends Nov 20.





30% Off ends Nov 7th.







https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/7204413467293






__





Spitfire Audio — Nathan James Larsen






www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## RogiervG (Nov 5, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> You may be correct about the final pricing of $2500. I would be surprised at that, and concerned because I think $2500 will yield an unduly compromised product. I still say the full library will come in > $3000 bundled, because I continue to believe the main purpose of the library for SF is brand building not the number of sales: above all it needs to convince users that the full version is on the leading edge of sampled instruments. I do think a core version—few mic positions (maybe only 1 mix), limited instruments, limited articulations—that hits the $2000 mark is possible, even likely, maybe accompanied by a reduction in price for SSO Pro. But the sales line up will basically follow something like: BBCSO pro=SSO core (=$1000); SSO pro = AR1 core (=$2000); AR1 Pro > $3000; all reduced by 30% during the usual sales periods. I believe AR1 Pro instruments will be highly modularized, much like the AROOF selections, making buying into the collection on a limited basis somewhat affordable—or at least not prohibitive.



Good points.
However: I don't think they will limit the articulations or instruments, being a pinnacle series, just the mics (like VSL does with the synchron libs).
We'll hopefully see next week, what of our visions is reality. 
Maybe we are both wrong in the end.


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 5, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> Good points.
> However: I don't think they will limit the articulations or instruments, being a pinnacle series, just the mics (like VSL does with the synchron libs).
> We'll hopefully see next week, what of our visions is reality.
> Maybe we are both wrong in the end.


Agreed. AR-2 doesn't have all the articulations in core (no portamento). BBCSO lacks instruments in core. Mics will almost certainly be reduced in core. 

I'm not sure next week will offer much clarity if it is indeed orchestral percussion. Aside from basic pricing (how does it stack up against percussion redux) and whether timpani is included in the package.


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## ridgero (Nov 5, 2022)

RogiervG said:


> to think of it further, it might sound strange at first, but i think it makes sense:
> I think SSO *standard *offerings will discontinue and being replaced by only SSO *PRO* offerings (SSO PRO bundle or SSO PRO Complete bundle: aka with or without percussion), for a new pricepoints 1300 without perc, 1500 with perc.
> Then the new modular orchestra (as a whole) can be around 2K for standard and 2.5K for PRO (extra mics)
> 
> ...



Maybe the pricepoint of a all in one package will be 2k - 2.5k once the entire Orchestra has been released

My guess: There will be around 15-25 modules and each module will cost 199,- to 220,-

I hope they tell us right away how many modules will be released in total.

No FOMO here, I will wait.


----------



## Mike Stone (Nov 5, 2022)

All this talk of high prices, don't forget that there's a lot of competition nowadays. If Spitfire decides to go too high with the pricing, then a lot of people could simply choose other companies' products instead (the economy isn't great either).


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## doctoremmet (Nov 5, 2022)

Welcome in top tier territory.


----------



## Flyo (Nov 5, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Flyo, I posted these in the threads discussing the promos, but I'll repost them here in the middle of the ARO discussion too.
> 
> $10 Off ends Nov 20.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, I missed this. I ended buying one ARSelection more for my Brass section at discount and already have the $10 gift card also! Good


----------



## STMICHAELS (Nov 5, 2022)

Flyo said:


> Thank you so much, I missed this. I ended buying one ARSelection more for my Brass section at discount and already have the $10 gift card also! Good


Keep that $10 for a discount when you get the first AR1MO


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## Flyo (Nov 5, 2022)

STMICHAELS said:


> Keep that $10 for a discount when you get the first AR1MO


Jaja no way $10 bucks for what’s coming is a joke… I will go for another ARSelection or Originals I think.


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 5, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Welcome in top tier territory.


Too many presume that they are the target market for this library.


----------



## smellypants (Nov 5, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Welcome in top tier territory.


Yeah Synchron is the big daddy... I'm curious if they (Spitfire) will sample deeper 🤔

It will be a tall task, VSL is also known for their sampling depth (among other things)


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## doctoremmet (Nov 5, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Too many presume that they are the target market for this library.


I was mainly responding to the post directly above mine  

My prediction: 4 main libraries, with a price tag of 799 each.


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## jbuhler (Nov 5, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I was mainly responding to the post directly above mine
> 
> My prediction: 4 main libraries, with a price tag of 799 each.


I would predict the individual libraries will be priced at least as high as SSO Pro. So $1099 for strings, $1000 for brass, $900 for winds, $400 for percussion. More, likely 20% higher.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 5, 2022)

Let's see if we can predict the winning Powerball lotto numbers.


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## STMICHAELS (Nov 5, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Let's see if we can predict the winning Powerball lotto numbers.


Now that would put me through AROOF wait AR1MO - With that amount of winnings, could buy AR1MO for each member on this forum


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 5, 2022)

I'll wade in and join the prediction fun. I'm going for a modular approach.

I'm pretty sure the template here is AROOF, rather than the existing SSO.
That means the full suite of mics for every product, but no single signal "core" versions.

A more modular approach as shown with AROOF, with modules divided strictly along instrument lines. More volumes than the existing SSO, but not as many as the original BML. A happy medium somewhere in between.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 5, 2022)

It'll be interesting to see what the target market Spitfire has decided to go after. Abbey Road is already inaccessible to the majority of sample library users I bet - the ones that have an expectation to pay ~$200-300 per section or something in that range. I hope Spitfire doesn't "dumb down" the library to appeal to these folks at the expense of creating a truly broad and deeply sampled AR library. I don't want to pay $50k for a recording session at AR - but I am down to pay $4-5k for the privilege of a fantastically recorded orchestral library there that will be a standout in quality for the next 10 years.


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 5, 2022)

I think I'm just going to stick with, AROOF, BBCSO Pro, SCS Pro, SSS Pro and the new AS. Im not even that fussed over what I hear so far from the strings included in AROOF. I feel that this will essentially be an SSO in AR studios just with more mics, better consistency and maybe some deeper sampling. It may also get more shorts/consistent number of shorts between all libraries and also have the appassionato style legatos throughout. That will all be great in the end, however, it's all going to take a long long time until it's all complete and the initial prices are going to be high!

I may buy the AR percussion if that what it's going to be on Thursday, otherwise, I think I'll be holding back and watching how it all rolls out throughout the years. I'm intrigued to see how it all turns out.


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## Noeticus (Nov 5, 2022)

If the Strings in AR1MO have the same number of Dynamic Layers (or more) than Pacific Strings I will be truly impressed and overjoyed.


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## muziksculp (Nov 6, 2022)

Hi,

So any guesses as to which Orch. Module SA will be announcing, or releasing related to AR1MO soon ? 

* Perc. 
*Brass.
*Strings
*Woodwinds
* The entire AR1MO in modules that are all ready, and can be purchased separately ?


----------



## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 6, 2022)

I think we can safely disgard Brass and the entire AR1MO for the following reasons:

It won't be the full orchestra because the announcement states that it is "the first library in our new range", not "a range of new libraries".
When it comes to individual sections, there are arguments to be made for all of them with the exception of brass:
- Strings are the traditional first, so this would be the obvious one. However, the recording of strings would have had the most trouble with covid-restrictions.
- Percussion would have been the easiest to sample during covid and it also does not require the implementation of any fancy new legato tech that may still be in development. The percussive sound (bass drum roll?) towards the end of the teaser also hints at that.
- Woodwinds are hinted at by the writing on the floor markings in the teaser video.

Whatever it is, I'll likely buy it on release day - even if the module is "Bass Drums and Piccolo Flutes"


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## lettucehat (Nov 6, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I think we can safely disgard Brass and the entire AR1MO for the following reasons:
> 
> It won't be the full orchestra because the announcement states that it is "the first library in our new range", not "a range of new libraries".
> When it comes to individual sections, there are arguments to be made for all of them with the exception of brass:
> ...


Agree with all of the reasoning, I'm 50/50 on perc and winds. But given SA's very reliable discount strategy, I have to admit I'll hardly buy anything until it hits 40% or enters a bundle that beats the sales (loyalty intro for owning AROOF/selections).


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## RogiervG (Nov 6, 2022)

i have a set price i am willing to pay (without discounts) and one i am willing to pay with sales (after e.g. a year from release)..

Not going over those... unless spitfire has proven itself in that the scripting issues and inconsistensies, bugs (player, and libs) etc are from the past. (aka stepped up their QA game big time).
My current set prices are very reasonable though, i think.


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## FrozenIcicle (Nov 6, 2022)

just wait 12 months and it will be 50% off


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## jbuhler (Nov 6, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It'll be interesting to see what the target market Spitfire has decided to go after. Abbey Road is already inaccessible to the majority of sample library users I bet - the ones that have an expectation to pay ~$200-300 per section or something in that range. I hope Spitfire doesn't "dumb down" the library to appeal to these folks at the expense of creating a truly broad and deeply sampled AR library. I don't want to pay $50k for a recording session at AR - but I am down to pay $4-5k for the privilege of a fantastically recorded orchestral library there that will be a standout in quality for the next 10 years.


I'm with you. I mean, who knows, but the closer SF prices this to the SSO Pro, the more problems they cause themselves with squeezing out their other libraries, so they don't effectively gain as much potential income across the line. At the same time I can see a core library, similar to SSO core, with one mic, and a limited set of instruments and/or articulations that prices around SSO pro. I can also see a highly modularized approach, especially if they go for individual players for woodwinds and brass (e.g., flute 1, flute 2, flute 3, piccolo, etc.) that would make individual libraries affordable even if collectively the whole thing is quite expensive.

Folks also seem to forget that the old BML library was introduced in modules as a supplement to Albion One. The idea was that you used Albion One as the broad brush foundation and then applied the individual modular libraries as a fine brush for detail. This seems to be the thinking of AR modular as well. For the early modules the expectation is that you have AROOF and will use that as the foundation as you then add the detail of the individual instruments.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 6, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I can also see a highly modularized approach, especially if they go for individual players for woodwinds and brass (e.g., flute 1, flute 2, flute 3, piccolo, etc.) that would make individual libraries affordable even if collectively the whole thing is quite expensive.


This would be a dream. So far, only OT and AudioBro have recorded individual woodwind and / or brass players. I'd love for Spitfire to enter that space, along with a few common ensemble sizes.


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## NoamL (Nov 6, 2022)

I think we're overthinking "modular"

Going back to the horse's mouth:

_"the super detailed *sectional* libraries are a separate line - the *modular* orchestra."

"For those who prefer very detailed control over individual *sections* we are producing a super detailed *modular* library also in Studio One."_

Modular = sectional. So the same thing as Cinematic Studio, or EastWest Hollywood, or the post-2016(?) rationalized Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra.


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## dzilizzi (Nov 6, 2022)

The Gost said:


> They won't go back to Kontakt, too much hacking.....


Not so much the hacking as the mic limitations.


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## jbuhler (Nov 6, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Modular = sectional. So the same thing as Cinematic Studio, or EastWest Hollywood, or the post-2016(?) rationalized Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra.


Maybe, but that doesn't allow SF to break the sections down, to modularize them to very attractive price points, the way that OT can with the Berlin line. I just don't see the sections being priced any lower than 20% higher than what SSO Pro is currently offered at, and they could well be quite a lot higher than that. That doesn't make them very affordable for most even with a 40% sale. Whereas if they super modularize them, they can offer more attractive pricing on the small modules. Another option is to have a core and a pro version that, like BBCSO, has a fairly steep difference in price. I think this latter option is quite likely, but it can coexist with the first option. In any case even if it is just a percussion library offered this week, it should yield insight into the granularity of "modular."


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## Justin L. Franks (Nov 6, 2022)

NoamL said:


> I think we're overthinking "modular"
> 
> Going back to the horse's mouth:
> 
> ...


That can just as easily be read as detailed control _within_ individual sections.

Also, the 'modular = sectional' can also be read differently. It could be each module being a collection of the individual sections in a single choir (so strings, brass, winds, and percussion modules each containing the individual sections therein).

Or it could be more granular. So it could be one module per individual section (so separate 1st violins, oboes, horns, etc. modules). Or it could be high strings (V1, V2, + Va), low strings (Vc + Cb), and separate high and low modules for winds and brass. Or it could be all flutes (piccolo, flute, alto flute, and bass flute), all single-reeds, all double-reeds, etc. Or any of a number of different ways.

We simply won't know until it is officially announced.


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## The Gost (Nov 6, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Not so much the hacking as the mic limitations.


Well for me CTAO that's enough..


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## ridgero (Nov 7, 2022)

NoamL said:


> I think we're overthinking "modular"
> 
> Going back to the horse's mouth:
> 
> ...



*"The term 'Modular' for this upcoming library refers to a similar concept as Spitfire
Audio's BBCSO, and their Symphonic Orchestra Libraries."*

That says it all


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 7, 2022)

ridgero said:


> *"The term 'Modular' for this upcoming library refers to a similar concept as Spitfire
> Audio's BBCSO, and their Symphonic Orchestra Libraries."*
> 
> That says it all



BBCSO was released all at 1 time as 1 library.

SSO (not in the form as Mural etc. - important distinction) was also released all at 1 time, apart from the extra mics addition.

So Modular will ALSO be released as 1 library, all at once ?!


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 7, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> So Modular will ALSO be released as 1 library, all at once ?!


The opening post in the other thread says "..release of the first library of our new range"...


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 7, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> The opening post in the other thread says "..release of the first library of our new range"...


Ah, I forgot. Thanks 🙂


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## ridgero (Nov 7, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> BBCSO was released all at 1 time as 1 library.
> 
> SSO (not in the form as Mural etc. - important distinction) was also released all at 1 time, apart from the extra mics addition.
> 
> So Modular will ALSO be released as 1 library, all at once ?!



No, "modular" doesn't refer to the time span, whether the library is sold in individual packages or as a whole.

"Modular" has to do with the functionality and structure of a library.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 7, 2022)

ridgero said:


> No, "modular" doesn't refer to the time span whether the library is sold in individual packages or as a whole.
> 
> "Modular" has to do with the functionality and structure of a library.


Structure I understand, but what does Modular mean with functionality?


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## ridgero (Nov 7, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Structure I understand, but what does Modular mean with functionality?


I can't better describe it, but it means they are not pre-orchestrated sections.

The only question that remains unanswered for me is: How deep will the modular system be. For example, will there be Flute 1 / 2 / 3 or only Solo Flute and Flutes. If Flute 1/2/3 - how will they interact with each other, maybe there will even be a function ala Divisimate? I hope to see some big improvements compared to competitors. Alot of potential 



muziksculp said:


>


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## NoamL (Nov 7, 2022)

ridgero said:


> *"The term 'Modular' for this upcoming library refers to a similar concept as Spitfire
> Audio's BBCSO, and their Symphonic Orchestra Libraries."*
> 
> That says it all


That's not the horse's mouth, that's muzicskulp


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## ModalRealist (Nov 7, 2022)

NoamL said:


> That's not the horse's mouth, that's muzicskulp


Mission-Impossible-style twist reveal incoming…

…”I’m very excited to announce… @muziksculp ’s true identity.”


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## Denkii (Nov 7, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Welcome in top tier territory.


It's harder to pay full price for these than it's not.
The MSRP really only exists to offer a better value proposition when you communicate a deal in this market.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 7, 2022)

Denkii said:


> It's harder to pay full price for these than it's not.
> The MSRP really only exists to offer a better value proposition when you communicate a deal in this market.


Yeah. So I assume a discount of 40% off is considered real? In that case we’re still talking about approx. $ 2.500 for the lot, right? I was merely reacting to a comment stating that there is no way in this day and age a full orchestral package can command that kind of price, while in all honesty VSL is living proof there is a market for packages with prices in that bracket. Even when one discounts for sales opportunities (which Spitfire Audio of course will also offer in time).


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## Loerpert (Nov 7, 2022)

ModalRealist said:


> Mission-Impossible-style twist reveal incoming…
> 
> …”I’m very excited to announce… @muziksculp ’s true identity.”


Hoooray, Muziksculp is secretly a bot made by the reptilian corporate elite to make you buy more string libraries. Now go buy more string libraries!


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## Denkii (Nov 7, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Yeah. So I assume a discount of 40% off is considered real? In that case we’re still talking about approx. $ 2.500 for the lot, right? I was merely reacting to a comment stating that there is no way in this day and age a full orchestral package can command that kind of price, while in all honesty VSL is living proof there is a market for packages with prices in that bracket. Even when one discounts for sales opportunities (which Spitfire Audio of course will also offer in time).


Right, gotcha.

You wouldn't even have to look at other developers.
SSO (with SCS or SSS) pro + percussion is pretty much in the same ballpark.

I mean..yeah ok couple hundred less maybe.
But VSL would also be considerably more content in this comparison (especially with the full percussion bundle).

So i think realistically it's a close enough comparison (according to actual prices that you'd get during sales on both sides not MSRPs).

---

On another note and a different comparison: VSL offers crossgrade discounts between synchron libraries and BBO libraries.
It would be nice to see the same thing here for people that already have a lot of the ARO stuff and are looking to get into ARMO.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 7, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> Hoooray, Muziksculp is secretly a bot made by the reptilian corporate elite to make you buy more string libraries. Now go buy more string libraries!


It all makes sense now:

Every other library Spitfire releases is a string library.

Then look at @muziksculp 's signature:






The truth has been revealed!!


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## styledelk (Nov 7, 2022)

Denkii said:


> On another note and a different comparison: VSL offers crossgrade discounts between synchron libraries and BBO libraries.
> It would be nice to see the same thing here for people that already have a lot of the ARO stuff and are looking to get into ARMO.


To be fair, those crossgrades are because they more or less utilize the same material.


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## muziksculp (Nov 7, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> It all makes sense now:
> 
> Every other library Spitfire releases is a string library.
> 
> ...


Hehe.. so you think it's going to be AR1MO 'Strings' first ?


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## doctoremmet (Nov 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hehe.. so you think it's going to be AR1MO 'Strings' first ?


You tell us Paul!


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## ridgero (Nov 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hehe.. so you think it's going to be AR1MO 'Strings' first ?


Strings is the holy grail and is for many
people a no brainer, if they sound great. Their last major releases were strings (Frozen, Appasionata, Abbey Road 2 Solo)

As from a marketing perspective: Which sales order would sell more percussions:

1. Strings, WW, Brass, Percs
2. Percs, WW, Brass, Strings
3. Percs, WW, Strings, Brass
4. Brass, Strings, WW, Percs
etc…

My pick is Scenario 2. or 3.

Strings and Brass will sell either way, WW and Percs not so much.

Maybe a coincidence or not, but why do you think the Strings Selection comes at the end? People who are waiting for Strings will be satisfied and happy anyway.


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## muziksculp (Nov 7, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> You tell us Paul!


I'm sure Paul will be super excited to tell us what it is very soon.


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## Gerbil (Nov 7, 2022)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Whatever it is, I'll likely buy it on release day - even if the module is "Bass Drums and Piccolo Flutes"


SPOILER ALERT!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 7, 2022)

What was the most recently recorded orchestral percussion library? Synchron I'm guessing? Which is great - but very different tone and style to what I imagine percussion in Abbey Road could be. Seems like a fine time to introduce a deeply sampled, fantastic sounding orchestral percussion library.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 7, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> What was the most recently recorded orchestral percussion library? Synchron I'm guessing? Which is great - but very different tone and style to what I imagine percussion in Abbey Road could be. Seems like a fine time to introduce a deeply sampled, fantastic sounding orchestral percussion library.


Damage 2, Hammers


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 7, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Damage 2, Hammers


I should have clarified - traditional orchestral percussion. I don't think D2 or Hammers are designed or suited for that.


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## Composer 2021 (Nov 7, 2022)

It's coming!

Or is it just another AROOF expansion?


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## Vik (Nov 7, 2022)

ridgero said:


> Mural Strings Vol 1 £478.80
> Mural Strings Vol 2 £478.80
> Mural Ensembles £298.80


So you didn't buy the £399 Mural 3 either?


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 7, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> It all makes sense now:
> 
> Every other library Spitfire releases is a string library.
> 
> ...


But that's not the whole twist. If he turns out to be Andy Blaney just before the credits roll, that's a twist...


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## muziksculp (Nov 7, 2022)




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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>



Those bastards!


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## muziksculp (Nov 7, 2022)

My wish, it's AR1MO (The whole freaking orchestra).


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## Reznov981 (Nov 7, 2022)

Can I please daydream a little?
Thanks.
I thought about how if ARMO is their "most deeply sampled orchestra ever", I would as the company take advantage of that.

So yes the modules of the orchestral instrument families - perc, strings, brass, winds. All good. BUT within them are two crucial things aside from the very boring and obvious dynamics and rr. Super cool and sexy extended techniques (a package as "deeply sampled" will ideally be somewhat comprehensive. The better it sounds, the more people will be like, "now I just want technique x with this sound quality!"). But more interestingly, some "hybrid" mixes in the mics/mixed, with gritty effects a little like Heavyocity, who cover a whole span of this market that Spitfire haven't really touched. I'd also have some key "hybridising" effects that you can manually dial. Maybe the hybrid mix is just premaps of those parameters. Point is, I love the idea of ARMO covering both traditional and modern ground with its stunning sound and quality of recording. Also man I hope it has soloists.


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 7, 2022)

Good to see Spitfire back on the 'ol marketing tease bandwagon.
Pity they didn't start this a month back as we could be 87 pages of silly gifs in by now.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 7, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Good to see Spitfire back on the 'ol marketing tease bandwagon.
> Pity they didn't start this a month back as we could be 87 pages of silly gifs in by now.


They didn't want to step on Performance Samples' toes.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 7, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Good to see Spitfire back on the 'ol marketing tease bandwagon.
> Pity they didn't start this a month back as we could be 87 pages of silly gifs in by now.





ALittleNightMusic said:


> They didn't want to step on Performance Samples' toes.


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## Snarf (Nov 7, 2022)

Except, y'know, PS has left the forum. All talk about their libraries is generated by users, not ambiguous marketing teasers.


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## Reznov981 (Nov 7, 2022)

New Facebook (and presumably on other social medias) teaser


Ngl, I'm starting to think this is just the high strings legato for AROOF and thus the final scoring selection. I'm sure many will be happy with that, but I'd be frothing if they at least gave an update on where ARMO is at. Idk why, but I no longer think this is an ARMO release. They might make an announcement for ARMO alongside the final scoring selection release though?

EDIT: I forgot how they said it's for a new series so I'm dumb and it's probably ARMO. Just for a laugh though my final guess is that it's a choir at Abbey Road, featuring second Sopranos


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## muziksculp (Nov 7, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> New Facebook (and presumably on other social medias) teaser
> 
> 
> Ngl, I'm starting to think this is just the high strings legato for AROOF and thus the final scoring selection. I'm sure many will be happy with that, but I'd be frothing if they at least gave an update on where ARMO is at. Idk why, but I no longer think this is an ARMO release. They might make an announcement for ARMO alongside the final scoring selection release though?



No, it's not.


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## Reznov981 (Nov 7, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> No, it's not.


No it's not on other social media, no it's not going to be an ARMO announcement, or no it's not an AROOF announcement? Legit question 😅


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## lettucehat (Nov 7, 2022)

They said it’s the first in a new series or something like that, in their first post about it.


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## Reznov981 (Nov 7, 2022)

lettucehat said:


> They said it’s the first in a new series or something like that, in their first post about it.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Okay I'm back to it being ARMO lol


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## prodigalson (Nov 8, 2022)

The orchestra tuning seems to suggest not percussion...hard to tell but it sounds like its just WW tuning?...I'm going with AR Strings or AR WW. I absolutely don't think they'll be dropping the whole ARMO as others have been wishfully thinking.


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

prodigalson said:


> The orchestra tuning seems to suggest not percussion...hard to tell but it sounds like its just WW tuning?...I'm going with AR Strings or AR WW. I absolutely don't think they'll be dropping the whole ARMO as others have been wishfully thinking.


What if they have organized it as a Standard AR1MO that includes all sections of the orchestra, and then plan to add to it in a modular fashion complementing parts as the additional modules are ready ? I would think that's the most logical way to go about it. Instead of having only Woodwinds, or only Per, or only Strings, and having to wait for months to get the next section, and ..the next ...


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## jamessy (Nov 8, 2022)

Could it be the next Albion


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

jamessy said:


> Could it be the next Albion


I doubt it. I think they are going for a much more detailed orchestra here.


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## RogiervG (Nov 8, 2022)

jamessy said:


> Could it be the next Albion


nah, it's about a new series (and albions are not new), and that would not be a pinnacle library set


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## jbuhler (Nov 8, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> What if they have organized it as a Standard AR1MO that includes all sections of the orchestra, and then plan to add to it in a modular fashion complementing parts as the additional modules are ready?


Arguably this is what they are doing with AROOF (all sections of the orchestra) and then additional modules, both the scoring selections and now the individual sections and instruments.

For the modular orchestra, there's all the work of editing and scripting. If SF releases it all (or even a core) all at once, all that has to be ready at once. If SF releases in modules they can spread this work out over time. They can also have much the same team working on it, so that there is more consistency across the library as a whole. To release much of it at the same time would require either much more time or a much larger team.


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 8, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Arguably this is what they are doing with AROOF (all sections of the orchestra) and then additional modules, both the scoring selections and now the individual sections and instruments.
> 
> For the modular orchestra, there's all the work of editing and scripting. If SF releases it all (or even a core) all at once, all that has to be ready at once. If SF releases in modules they can spread this work out over time. They can also have much the same team working on it, so that there is more consistency across the library as a whole. To release much of it at the same time would require either much more time or a much larger team.


Perhaps we will get an AROOF type library but for each individual section and solo instruments with limited essential core articulations for each section, releasing this week. Then smaller selection type libraries for each individual sections and additional solo player expansions. Eg you get flutes 1 and flutes a2 in the core library with essential articulations then individual expansions packs for flutes 2 and flutes 3 and extended articulation packs.


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## prodigalson (Nov 8, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> What if they have organized it as a Standard AR1MO that includes all sections of the orchestra, and then plan to add to it in a modular fashion complementing parts as the additional modules are ready ? I would think that's the most logical way to go about it. Instead of having only Woodwinds, or only Per, or only Strings, and having to wait for months to get the next section, and ..the next ...


...wishful thinking. 

If the modular library is their most deeply sampled project as they've suggested and they believe it to be the pinnacle of orchestral sampling then it will have a price tag to eclipse their current lineup and dropping it all at once would be crazy. comparisons to BBCSO and SSO don't hold up because the whole point of the former was to be one single orchestral package and was conceived that way and the latter actually wasn't released all at once, It was released modularly and then REPACKAGED all at once.


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Arguably this is what they are doing with AROOF (all sections of the orchestra) and then additional modules, both the scoring selections and now the individual sections and instruments.
> 
> For the modular orchestra, there's all the work of editing and scripting. If SF releases it all (or even a core) all at once, all that has to be ready at once. If SF releases in modules they can spread this work out over time. They can also have much the same team working on it, so that there is more consistency across the library as a whole. To release much of it at the same time would require either much more time or a much larger team.


AROOF was a mixed bag of layered sections., ..etc. This is very different. 

What I think would be the most logical way to go about AR1MO is to first release a smaller core orchestra, that includes all sections, nothing is layered like AROOF, but more traditional orchestral section articulations, to provide the user full flexibility of orchestrating it, like their SSO, or BBCSO Pro. 

Then they would be releasing additional expansion modules for each section as they become available. 

This to me seems the best/most logical approach, but it might not be what they planned. So, we will surely know what it is on Thursday.


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

prodigalson said:


> ...wishful thinking.
> 
> If the modular library is their most deeply sampled project as they've suggested and they believe it to be the pinnacle of orchestral sampling then it will have a price tag to eclipse their current lineup and dropping it all at once would be crazy. comparisons to BBCSO and SSO don't hold up because the whole point of the former was to be one single orchestral package and was conceived that way and the latter actually wasn't released all at once, It was released modularly and then REPACKAGED all at once.


You could be right, but we don't know. We will on know on Thursday.


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## RogiervG (Nov 8, 2022)

Chance is real we all (or a large part of people in this thread) get disappointed, like with many previous marketing campaigns SF has done in the past (spreading hyperboles with vague footage, but not delivering a product that suits those hyperboles).
I *hope* i am wrong this time, and that it is what i hope it is... but yeah, i am suspicious at this point.


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 8, 2022)

They may have learnt from BBCSO. Many purchased but would still love and welcome some extra dynamic layers, especially in the brass. How many after investing in BBCOS would have also paid to get some additional instruments for BBCSO (individual brass/woods) and some deeper sampling with more short note options. I know I definitely would have!!

So, what if they are going to do that now but with AR modular series. They could provide a whole core set like BBCSO with individual sections but with your basic articulations and with missing elements. They then could release those missing elements and each individual soloists as modular libraries.


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> They may have learnt from BBCSO. Many purchased but would still love and welcome some extra dynamic layers, especially in the brass. How many after investing in BBCOS would have also paid to get some additional instruments for BBCSO (individual brass/woods) and some deeper sampling with more short note options. I know I definitely would have!!
> 
> So, what if they are going to do that now but with AR modular series. They could provide a whole core set like BBCSO with individual sections but with your basic articulations and with missing elements. They then could release those missing elements and each individual soloists as modular libraries.


Yup.. That's imho. the most logical way to go about it.

Plus they will sell much more a full core orchestra than i.e. just a Woodwind section, or Perc. section.etc. as the first release of the AR1MO Series.


----------



## ridgero (Nov 8, 2022)

jamessy said:


> Could it be the next Albion


AROOF is kind of the Albion of the Abbey Road Series. They are clearly focused on a detailed sample library and not on fancy stuff.


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## jbuhler (Nov 8, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> AROOF was a mixed bag of layered sections., ..etc. This is very different.
> 
> What I think would be the most logical way to go about AR1MO is to first release a smaller core orchestra, that includes all sections, nothing is layered like AROOF, but more traditional orchestral section articulations, to provide the user full flexibility of orchestrating it, like their SSO, or BBCSO Pro.
> 
> ...


Nothing is layered in AROOF itsef. You get your strings, your winds, your brass, and then a bunch of percussion. The selections do quite a lot of layering to augment that with section legatos and traditional doublings. The modules—solo instruments, a2 or a3 instruments, string sections, etc—then work by bringing detail to the foundation. That was the original conception of BML as they brought it on line with Albion One as the foundation. I would guess that is the basic plan here, too, though I imagine the details of the roll out might be quite different.

I can't imagine that SF would bring out the five string sections, and the 8 basic wind and brass soloists all at once this week. For one thing, I think they'd tease something like that quite differently than what they have been giving. I know you want a larger release, but even a basic orchestra is a lot to do at once. Yes, they did it for BBCSO, so it is possible if unlikely; but BBCSO was also a much less complex library since it did not have many dynamic layers. I also can't imagine that SF would release many modules this week when they haven't yet released the high and mid string legato for AROOF. I take that as a sign that despite the success of Appassionata Strings, SF does not yet have the string legato for AR ready to go.


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## Reznov981 (Nov 8, 2022)

The waiting room for the release video is up now


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

Any idea what this means ?


----------



## Noeticus (Nov 8, 2022)

The FAB FOUR?


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## Reznov981 (Nov 8, 2022)

Was that posted 4 days before the release day?

What does the link in their bio take you to?


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

Noeticus said:


> The FAB FOUR?


Maybe, But... what does that have to do with AR1MO ?


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

Maybe an older post. 

Here is the latest one :


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

YEARS in the making !


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## Reznov981 (Nov 8, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> YEARS in the making !


Yeah, I really think this is ARMO


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 8, 2022)

That “four” image was posted in October 2020. Wasn’t it a countdown or something?

Anyway…


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> That “four” image was posted in October 2020. Wasn’t it a countdown or something?
> 
> Anyway…


Yeah. Forget about it. It's an old post.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 8, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> That “four” image was posted in October 2020. Wasn’t it a countdown or something?


Ah, that's good - I already got scared and thought they were gonna release four different sizes of bass drums and nothing else... 👀


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

Are the AR1MO Strings expected to be a Symphonic Size section (i.e. 60+ String Players ) ? 

Anyone know ? or should we just wait for Thursday's announcement ?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 8, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Are the AR1MO Strings expected to be a Symphonic Size section (i.e. 60+ String Players ) ?
> 
> Anyone know ? or should we just wait for Thursday's announcement ?


Why don't you just wait until Thursday? Literally NOBODY HERE KNOWS ANYTHING.


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Why don't you just wait until Thursday? Literally NOBODY HERE KNOWS ANYTHING.


Haha.. OK. I just thought they mentioned it earlier during the initial announcement or something. No rush, two days to go, and we will know a lot more !


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 8, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Are the AR1MO Strings expected to be a Symphonic Size section (i.e. 60+ String Players ) ?
> 
> Anyone know ? or should we just wait for Thursday's announcement ?


Logical guess? Symphonic, exact same setup as AROOF.


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## Daniel James (Nov 8, 2022)

Is it strings? please let it be strings. 😂


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## Bruhelius (Nov 8, 2022)

It might be just 100 chalkboards and fingernails this time, deeply sampled!


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## NoamL (Nov 8, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Are the AR1MO Strings expected to be a Symphonic Size section (i.e. 60+ String Players ) ?
> 
> Anyone know ? or should we just wait for Thursday's announcement ?



Orchestral Foundations has a 60-piece section - the same as their Symphonic Strings in AIR.


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Orchestral Foundations has a 60-piece section - the same as their Symphonic Strings in AIR.


OK. So, Symphonic Size makes the most sense, 60-piece section (or more). 

Thanks  

By the way, I love the way SA Symphonic Strings sound in Air Studio.


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## muziksculp (Nov 8, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> Is it strings? please let it be strings. 😂


If they are confident enough, and very courageous it will be Strings, if not .. It will be Drum Roll... Perc.


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## pete_crum (Nov 9, 2022)

Any chance AROMO will literally be built on (as in require) the foundation of AROOF? So for example, an AROMO strings module would be the equivalent of an enhanced Appassionata extension of AROOF?


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## Begfred (Nov 9, 2022)

pete_crum said:


> Any chance AROMO will literally be built on (as in require) the foundation of AROOF? So for example, an AROMO strings module would be the equivalent of an enhanced Appassionata extension of AROOF?


IMHO, Appassionata legato was clearly an RND project for testing new ways of sampling and programming legato articulations for their upcoming modular orchestra. I expect all legatos to be based on it.


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 9, 2022)

Begfred said:


> IMHO, Appassionata legato was clearly an RND project for testing new ways of sampling and programming legato articulations for their upcoming modular orchestra. I expect all legatos to be based on it.


That will be nice. Hopefully all the libraries have it. However, I still also want their performance legatos included so hopefully we will get both an improved/detailed performance type legato and the new appassionato type legatos.


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## Begfred (Nov 9, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> That will be nice. Hopefully all the libraries have it. However, I still also want their performance legatos included so hopefully we will get both an improved/detailed performance type legato and the new appassionato type legatos.


I agree, they may offer different legato styles from slow emotive to fast and agile for some instruments


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 9, 2022)

Begfred said:


> I agree, they may offer different legato styles from slow emotive to fast and agile for some instruments


I'm hoping all instruments do. I'm hoping for more consistency between each section, so it would be a bit rubbish if some included agile performance legatos and other instruments did not.


----------



## Vik (Nov 9, 2022)

pete_crum said:


> Any chance AROMO will literally be built on (as in require) the foundation of AROOF? So for example, an AROMO strings module would be the equivalent of an enhanced Appassionata extension of AROOF?


Appassionata: 8 V1s, 6 V2s, 6 violas, 6 cellos and 4 basses. Those section sizes are IMO excellent section for recordings (for live performance, having twice as many is great).
BBCSO (I haven't seen that Abbey Road One section sizes) has 16 V1s, 14 V2s, 12 violas, 10 cellos and 8 basses. That's relatively close to twice the size of SAS.

We know that SF plans a modular library, but don't know how modular it is – and Appassionata may actually be planned to be used as divisi for the modular library. Does that mean that ARMO will have twice the section sizes as Appassionata? Maybe, but maybe not – they could release another Appassionata sized string ensemble, and this way let the users choose wether they want to use both at the same time in unison for a large ensemble, use one of the two 'divisi sections', or simply the two 'divisi sections' for …divisi. There are many other options as well (see some of them below), but my guess is that they will release, at least as an option, something larger than Appassionata.



Vik said:


> For instance – will it be possible to buy one instrument at a time (eg. cellos)?
> 
> If there's lots of multiple layers in there, will light versions be offered (as standalone products or as part of the full package), with fewer levels?
> 
> ...


----------



## Trash Panda (Nov 9, 2022)

Vik said:


> and Appassionata may actually be planned to be used as divisi for the modular library.


Wasn’t Appassionata recorded at AIR? I doubt it would be intended for use as part of an Abbey Road series of products.


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## Vik (Nov 9, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Wasn’t Appassionata recorded at AIR? I doubt it would be intended for use as part of an Abbey Road series of products.


Oh, that's right of course – I don't own that library. Sorry. Still: maybe they plan to use some of the original recordings in AR One as divisi in ARMO, if they are recorded as individual sections (even if they were sold as / edited into High Strings, Low Strings etc).


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 9, 2022)

I doubt Spitfire is interested in recording divisi for strings 'cause I doubt their target customers are interested in it.


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## Vladinemir (Nov 9, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Any idea what this means ?



Maybe:
AR: Lennon Piano
AR: McCartney Bass
AR: Harrison Guitar
AR: Starr Drums


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## pete_crum (Nov 9, 2022)

It makes sense to me that AROMO would utilize some portion of AROOF...otherwise, AROMO would render AROOF obsolete, or at least strongly diminish its appeal in comparison, which seems like an illogical marketing plan. Also, the use of "Orchestral Foundations" in the product title itself, combined with the ultimate goal of a further AR modular orchestra release, makes me think these products somehow rely on each other.

Maybe it's wishful thinking since I own AROOF and would like to see that as having been an investment toward the modular library.


Vik said:


> Oh, that's right of course – I don't own that library. Sorry. Still: maybe they plan to use some of the original recordings in AR One as divisi in ARMO, if they are recorded as individual sections (even if they were sold as / edited into High Strings, Low Strings etc).


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## antanasb (Nov 9, 2022)

pete_crum said:


> It makes sense to me that AROMO would utilize some portion of AROOF...otherwise, AROMO would render AROOF obsolete, or at least strongly diminish its appeal in comparison, which seems like an illogical marketing plan. Also, the use of "Orchestral Foundations" in the product title itself, combined with the ultimate goal of a further AR modular orchestra release, makes me think these products somehow rely on each other.
> 
> Maybe it's wishful thinking since I own AROOF and would like to see that as having been an investment toward the modular library.


Wasn't it clear from the beginning that it will be two different products for two different purposes?

I thought so, at least?


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## Composer 2021 (Nov 9, 2022)

THEY JUST CONFIRMED IT'S THE MODULAR ORCHESTRA!


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## pete_crum (Nov 9, 2022)

antanasb said:


> Wasn't it clear from the beginning that it will be two different products for two different purposes?
> 
> I thought so, at least?


Relatively convenient sketching vs detailed orchestration, that part I still understand. Can't help hoping for a more concrete functional relationship between the two...at least for the next 24 hours or so.


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## lettucehat (Nov 9, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I doubt Spitfire is interested in recording divisi for strings 'cause I doubt their target customers are interested in it.


If they're dedicated to this library being the final word on orchestral sampling, and after all it is their big shot that they don't want to waste, they might.

If Appassionata was an experiment as most of us agree it was, then we really shouldn't ignore those section sizes. They don't match SCS, SSS, or AROOF. Why would they do a test run library and not make it as similar as possible to the big enchilada? My guess is that they see how some of the best non-SF string libraries were similarly sized (Berlin, CSS) and went with that for the best combination of detail and size. And my even more unfounded speculation is now leaning towards this being a divisi thing. Also partially wishful thinking. But what a way to differentiate the library from their own string libraries and most of the competition. Of course, depends on if they decided long ago this was aimed at pro users, and we just don't know.


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## mussnig (Nov 9, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I doubt Spitfire is interested in recording divisi for strings 'cause I doubt their target customers are interested in it.


Studio Strings Pro has divisi (only for a limited set of articulations but still)


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 9, 2022)

mussnig said:


> Studio Strings Pro has divisi (only for a limited set of articulations but still)


Ok, didn’t know. Then maybe also divisi in Modular


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## pete_crum (Nov 9, 2022)

lettucehat said:


> If they're dedicated to this library being the final word on orchestral sampling, and after all it is their big shot that they don't want to waste, they might.
> 
> If Appassionata was an experiment as most of us agree it was, then we really shouldn't ignore those section sizes. They don't match SCS, SSS, or AROOF. Why would they do a test run library and not make it as similar as possible to the big enchilada? My guess is that they see how some of the best non-SF string libraries were similarly sized (Berlin, CSS) and went with that for the best combination of detail and size. And my even more unfounded speculation is now leaning towards this being a divisi thing. Also partially wishful thinking. But what a way to differentiate the library from their own string libraries and most of the competition. Of course, depends on if they decided long ago this was aimed at pro users, and we just don't know.


Good point. And this being "the final word" must indicate pro-level. Can't wait to see what's in store.


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## Peter Satera (Nov 9, 2022)

Yasssss. Well excited!


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2022)

Albion NEO also has divisi (in an even more limited implementation). But still, divisi. And AROOF is like the Albion for the modular big AR. Much like how Albion 1 / ONE has perfectly coexisted with BML / Symphonic series.

So I don’t think a way more expensive actual modular AR orchestra will cannibalize much of AROOF’s sales.


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## Vik (Nov 9, 2022)

I like both SSS and SCS, but often found SCS a bit to thin and SSS about too large, and the main thing for me with potential divisi in a library (in addition to use it as divisi) is the flexibility that comes with it. Afflatus is also modular, and by combining the various sections and their divisis, one can built almost 15 different section sizes, which can be very useful.
Since SF now has stated that this will be their most complicated and detailed they ever have worked on, this library – which IMO deservers a short abbreviation  – I'm sure it's going to be their most pro level library so far.


They wouldn't put all this extra effort into it if it was meant _only_ for people playing on the white keys, in the weekends, and only in the DAW's default tempo. Nevertheless, I'm sure that all this extra work and preparation also will benefit that important 'amateur'/beginner crowd (we've all been there, btw!)

This may be 'Appassionata for adults' (I hope so), and maybe SAS actually was a the crowd-pleasing version/side effect of what we are about to see, only that this tradeoff was released first.

Having said that, I have no idea why I post this, since we'll all know more tomorrow!


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## antanasb (Nov 9, 2022)

I am using Albion ONE consistently and still am very happy with it. Wonderful library even today, despite the gloomingopinion about it here. Probably same applies to SSO, and that is completely fine. They are unique products with unique abilities, same as AR.

Now if sometime in the future Spitfire would make the SSO "modularly accessible" in the same way I hope the AR series will be, it would be great. Just buy what you really need/use and move on.

I see AROOF and the modular as perfect triad for all tastes, requirements and pockets. AROOF with packs suits fine? Good (when soaring high legato strings pack will finally be out) for you! Need more detailed section from modular? You can combine! Wanna go all in? Wallet cries! Haha!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 9, 2022)

Vik said:


> (…) this library – which IMO deservers a short abbreviation  (…)


SMO: Spitfire Modular Orchestra.


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## RogiervG (Nov 9, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> SMO: Spitfire Modular Orchestra.


armo, sarmo, sabmo, many options, we need a poll


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## Begfred (Nov 9, 2022)

lettucehat said:


> If they're dedicated to this library being the final word on orchestral sampling, and after all it is their big shot that they don't want to waste, they might.
> 
> If Appassionata was an experiment as most of us agree it was, then we really shouldn't ignore those section sizes. They don't match SCS, SSS, or AROOF. Why would they do a test run library and not make it as similar as possible to the big enchilada? My guess is that they see how some of the best non-SF string libraries were similarly sized (Berlin, CSS) and went with that for the best combination of detail and size. And my even more unfounded speculation is now leaning towards this being a divisi thing. Also partially wishful thinking. But what a way to differentiate the library from their own string libraries and most of the competition. Of course, depends on if they decided long ago this was aimed at pro users, and we just don't know.


It is just speculations at this point, but for divisi they could do a symphonic size strings first and then release 2 sets of chamber sized strings (NEO) .


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## Reznov981 (Nov 9, 2022)

Vik said:


> They wouldn't put all this extra effort into it if it was meant _only_ for people playing on the white keys in, in the weekends, and only in the DAW's default tempo.


I feel called out 🤣


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## DoubleTap (Nov 9, 2022)

I’ve googled and read bits of the threads on this but still can’t quite tell what this is about and why everyone’s so excited. 

Would someone mind telling me what a modular orchestra would look like - I mean, aren’t all orchestras modular in a way? I take it this is no way related to modular synthesis, that would be weird. Is it like every different instrument in a separate instance to save processing power somehow?


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## smellypants (Nov 9, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> I’ve googled and read bits of the threads on this but still can’t quite tell what this is about and why everyone’s so excited.
> 
> Would someone mind telling me what a modular orchestra would look like - I mean, aren’t all orchestras modular in a way? I take it this is no way related to modular synthesis, that would be weird. Is it like every different instrument in a separate instance to save processing power somehow?


People are excited because it's Spitfires new flagship orchestra.

Yes modular orchestras are the norm... Thats how almost all others are made/released.

Exceptions are things like BBC which was released as an all in one so to speak.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> I’ve googled and read bits of the threads on this but still can’t quite tell what this is about and why everyone’s so excited.
> 
> Would someone mind telling me what a modular orchestra would look like - I mean, aren’t all orchestras modular in a way? I take it this is no way related to modular synthesis, that would be weird. Is it like every different instrument in a separate instance to save processing power somehow?


Noone knows. But the most reasonable take is: modular ~> they offer multiple modules of instruments. Maybe we can buy individual sections (just violins, just celli), maybe they offer separate modules with extra mic positions, maybe they offer extra modules with extended articulations, maybe they offer a module of core woodwinds and an extra module with the more exotic ones. Catch my drift? The EXACT criteria for how these modules will be formed are unknown. But likely there will be MORE granular options than “mere” strings / brass / woodwinds / percussion / soloists / harp library options.

The excitement has to do with the room (Abbey Road One), with how good AROOF sounds, with more / bigger / better marketing BS, with expectations of more velocity layers. The usual stuff to get a bunch of VI-C people excited.


----------



## Reznov981 (Nov 9, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> I’ve googled and read bits of the threads on this but still can’t quite tell what this is about and why everyone’s so excited.
> 
> Would someone mind telling me what a modular orchestra would look like - I mean, aren’t all orchestras modular in a way? I take it this is no way related to modular synthesis, that would be weird. Is it like every different instrument in a separate instance to save processing power somehow?


It's about how they'll release it.
BBCSO, for example, was released as one big package.
A Modular Orchestra will be too expensive for that, so it's released in packages (modules lol).
Maybe instrument families like strings, or maybe broken up even smaller.


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> I’ve googled and read bits of the threads on this but still can’t quite tell what this is about and why everyone’s so excited.
> 
> Would someone mind telling me what a modular orchestra would look like - I mean, aren’t all orchestras modular in a way? I take it this is no way related to modular synthesis, that would be weird. Is it like every different instrument in a separate instance to save processing power somehow?


Watch the presentation tomorrow. They will explain it better than anyone can. It's just a matter of hours.


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2022)

It would be interesting if Christian Henson is back as usual, and part of the presentation tomorrow.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Nov 9, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> I’ve googled and read bits of the threads on this but still can’t quite tell what this is about and why everyone’s so excited.
> 
> Would someone mind telling me what a modular orchestra would look like - I mean, aren’t all orchestras modular in a way? I take it this is no way related to modular synthesis, that would be weird. Is it like every different instrument in a separate instance to save processing power somehow?


Modular, as in supplied in separate parts or products. 

For example:
Violins: Volume I, II etc
Solo Flute: Core Articulations 
Etc

The idea (we think) is that the entire orchestra will be released in smaller “modular” parts/products over the coming years.


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## chrisav (Nov 9, 2022)

Holy moly do I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment by swallowing their marketing phrases wholesale "the pinnacle", "the final word on orchestral sampling" etc.... Don't forget that this is Spitfire, who'll use these kinds of hyperbolic phrases for almost any major release. 

I'd love to be wrong, but please hype responsibly gang!


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Modular, as in supplied in separate parts or products.
> 
> For example:
> Violins: Volume I, II etc
> ...


No Patch-Cables are needed to use this Modular System.


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## ennbr (Nov 9, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> It would be interesting if Christian Henson is back as usual, and part of the presentation tomorrow


I don't recall Christian being part of any of the Abbey Road releases it's always been Paul


----------



## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 9, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> I’ve googled and read bits of the threads on this but still can’t quite tell what this is about and why everyone’s so excited.
> 
> Would someone mind telling me what a modular orchestra would look like


We can only speculate what they mean by "modular", but it's not the modularity people are so excited about but the fact that it is sampled in one of the best and most famous rooms for orchestral recordings and that it is going to be the new flagship of one of the industry leaders in orchestral sampling. There's even a point to be made that Spitfire can still view this as a success even if they spend more money on this than they make - so there are high hopes for this to be truly fantastic.


----------



## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> aren’t all orchestras modular in a way


It’s not a modular orchestra. It is a modular sample library  / big semantic difference


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 9, 2022)

This is why we need stickies.


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2022)

ennbr said:


> I don't recall Christian being part of any of the Abbey Road releases it's always been Paul


I wasn't being specific about AR releases. Anyway.. I would like to see C.Henson be part of this release, and presentation. He is a talented member of their team. Not sure if he is still part of their team now.


----------



## DoubleTap (Nov 9, 2022)

Thanks everyone! Six replies in about two minutes!


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> Thanks everyone! Six replies in about two minutes!


#7 I was seriously wondering whether your question was actually just trolling


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 9, 2022)

It's SSO, but recorded in Abbey Road.

The only question is whether it's released by section (string/brass/etc) or some smaller unit. And what the depth of sampling will be.

SSO was originally called BML (British Modular Library).

---

It's too bad we can't pin this to the top, because someone will ask every couple pages and the cycle will continue.


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## Vik (Nov 9, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> SMO: Spitfire Modular Orchestra.


Sure, unless it's a modular string orchestra: SMS.


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## DoubleTap (Nov 9, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> #7 I was seriously wondering whether your question was actually just trolling


Lol no I am honestly still a hapless amateur.


----------



## smellypants (Nov 9, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It's SSO, but recorded in Abbey Road.
> 
> The only question is whether it's released by section (string/brass/etc) or some smaller unit. And what the depth of sampling will be.
> 
> SSO was originally called BML (British Modular Library).


I think this is pretty much right


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> Lol no I am honestly still a hapless amateur.


My remark mostly says something about how ridiculously serious people like myself take their hobby  -


----------



## mixedmoods (Nov 9, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I wasn't being specific about AR releases. Anyway.. I would like to see C.Henson be part of this release, and presentation. He is a talented member of their team. Not sure if he is still part of their team now.


He mentioned in one of the last videos on his YT channel that there will be some sort of official announcement about the situation soon. Most likely not in the AR1MO launch though ...


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## pete_crum (Nov 9, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Albion NEO also has divisi (in an even more limited implementation). But still, divisi. And AROOF is like the Albion for the modular big AR. Much like how Albion 1 / ONE has perfectly coexisted with BML / Symphonic series.
> 
> So I don’t think a way more expensive actual modular AR orchestra will cannibalize much of AROOF’s sales.





Laurin Lenschow said:


> We can only speculate what they mean by "modular", but it's not the modularity people are so excited about but the fact that it is sampled in one of the best and most famous rooms for orchestral recordings and that it is going to be the new flagship of one of the industry leaders in orchestral sampling. There's even a point to be made that Spitfire can still view this as a success even if they spend more money on this than they make - so there are high hopes for this to be truly fantastic.


Not to mention the concurrent launch of the new Spitfire Audio Virtual Abbey Road Item Shop (SAVARIS), where you can spend additional money to upgrade instruments, skill levels, performance experience, and playing techniques of the individual musicians in your modular orchestra!


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2022)

pete_crum said:


> Not to mention the concurrent launch of the new Spitfire Audio Virtual Abbey Road Item Shop (SAVARIS), where you can spend additional money to upgrade instruments, skill levels, performance experience, and playing techniques of the individual musicians in your modular orchestra!


Will there be loot boxes?


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## smellypants (Nov 9, 2022)

chrisav said:


> Holy moly do I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment by swallowing their marketing phrases wholesale "the pinnacle", "the final word on orchestral sampling" etc.... Don't forget that this is Spitfire, who'll use these kinds of hyperbolic phrases for almost any major release.
> 
> I'd love to be wrong, but please hype responsibly gang!


I think you may be right...

I don't think this will be as comprehensive/versatile/deeply sampled as VSL's Synchron Series for example.

But it would be cool if it was!


----------



## pete_crum (Nov 9, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Will there be loot boxes?


The conductor is short, he has to stand on something.


----------



## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2022)

chrisav said:


> Holy moly do I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment by swallowing their marketing phrases wholesale "the pinnacle", "the final word on orchestral sampling" etc.... Don't forget that this is Spitfire, who'll use these kinds of hyperbolic phrases for almost any major release.
> 
> I'd love to be wrong, but please hype responsibly gang!


The superlatives and hyperbole only match the marketing BS. We’re now in that phase where we haven’t ACTUALLY been disappointed. Yet. So I say: we enjoy our own BS while we can.


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## chrisav (Nov 9, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> The superlatives and hyperbole only match the marketing BS. We’re now in that phase where we haven’t ACTUALLY been disappointed. Yet. So I say: we enjoy our own BS while we can.


How corrupted by this forum am I when I first read BS as meaning Berlin Strings????


----------



## Alex Fraser (Nov 9, 2022)

My only prediction is that by this time tomorrow, the forum will either be hurling money at the screen to get a taste of Spitfire's new wares, or five threads deep in outrage at the £1200 price point "just for violins."


----------



## soulofsound (Nov 9, 2022)

pete_crum said:


> It makes sense to me that AROMO would utilize some portion of AROOF...otherwise, AROMO would render AROOF obsolete, or at least strongly diminish its appeal in comparison, which seems like an illogical marketing plan. Also, the use of "Orchestral Foundations" in the product title itself, combined with the ultimate goal of a further AR modular orchestra release, makes me think these products somehow rely on each other.
> 
> Maybe it's wishful thinking since I own AROOF and would like to see that as having been an investment toward the modular library.


Making AR1 part of the new library would make the most sense to me. Many people love its sound. Just adding legato articulations to it, would make a huge difference. I hope the Spitfire Abbey Road umbrella will have some kind of consistency for all the libraries residing underneath it.


----------



## Reznov981 (Nov 9, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> It would be interesting if Christian Henson is back as usual, and part of the presentation tomorrow.


I say not, based on Paul Thompson being in the little announcement video


----------



## Stillneon (Nov 9, 2022)

They’ve done pretty well keeping this under wraps for a week. There’s usually a leak somewhere……but this time, tumbleweed.


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## pete_crum (Nov 9, 2022)

soulofsound said:


> Making AR1 part of the new library would make the most sense to me. Many people love its sound. Just adding legato articulations to it, would make a huge difference. I hope the Spitfire Abbey Road umbrella will have some kind of consistency for all the libraries residing underneath it.


Would spur continued sales of AROOF too.


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## Reznov981 (Nov 9, 2022)

soulofsound said:


> Making AR1 part of the new library would make the most sense to me. Many people love its sound. Just adding legato articulations to it, would make a huge difference. I hope the Spitfire Abbey Road umbrella will have some kind of consistency for all the libraries residing underneath it.


I don't think this will be the case. AROOF is like Albion in being mostly ensembles or pre-orchestrated. This is a whole new package that they announced as a separate project with separate recordings for. Of course we won't know until it's announced, but as far as speculation goes, I'm 99% sure this doesn't have any overlap with AROOF in content or association. For a quick sketch and a cheaper price, people can go for AROOF. For more depth and control, with a bigger price tag, it will be this new release. That's my understanding. Happy to be proven wrong though!


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## Reznov981 (Nov 9, 2022)

Stillneon said:


> They’ve done pretty well keeping this under wraps for a week. There’s usually a leak somewhere……but this time, tumbleweed.


I'm disappointed


----------



## Noeticus (Nov 9, 2022)

Christian Henson... if you are reading this thread... please remember that you are much loved here.


----------



## Composer 2021 (Nov 9, 2022)

I would prefer if they release it by instrument rather than by section. It will make it more affordable for everyone and help Spitfire compete against Orchestral Tools.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2022)

Composer 2021 said:


> I would prefer if they release it by instrument rather than by section. It will make it more affordable for everyone and help Spitfire compete against Orchestral Tools.


I don't think they are heading in that direction.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 9, 2022)

Composer 2021 said:


> I would prefer if they release it by instrument rather than by section. It will make it more affordable for everyone and help Spitfire compete against Orchestral Tools.


My hunch is they have a subscription plan in the works.


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## muziksculp (Nov 9, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> My hunch is they have a subscription plan in the works.


Maybe, but not before the full AR1MO is released. Which will take several YEARS !


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 9, 2022)

Composer 2021 said:


> I would prefer if they release it by instrument rather than by section. It will make it more affordable for everyone and help Spitfire compete against Orchestral Tools.


Orchestral Tools and affordable are never meant to be used in the same sentence.


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## Reznov981 (Nov 9, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Maybe, but not before the full AR1MO is released. Which will take several YEARS !


Yeah, this actually surprised me too. I guess it's a good sign though. More time for developing and not rushing out a product with bugs, and more time for us to save our quid between each module, AND it gives more breathing room for other kinds of releases from SF in between, which I think is good. Variety is the spice of life! Nonetheless, it took me aback a little when I first heard him say that!


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## Composer 2021 (Nov 9, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Orchestral Tools and affordable are never meant to be used in the same sentence.


Despite having overpriced list prices, the SINE player letting you buy individual instruments at a time is a godsend for most people.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Nov 9, 2022)

Stillneon said:


> They’ve done pretty well keeping this under wraps for a week. There’s usually a leak somewhere……but this time, tumbleweed.


I scraped the Spitfire website (both the new site and the old site which is still live at www2.spitfireaudio.com, although some links don't work), as well as Abbey Road's website, for any mention of anything, or a page that is not linked to anywhere but is publicly viewable if you have the URL.

Things like https://www.abbeyroad.com/audio-products/XX/modal where XX is a number. AROOF is #77, and other Spitfire libraries recorded at Abbey Road go up to #90 with Thematic Horns. And other URLs at both sites where something might have accidentally been put live early.

I didn't find anything.

I'll run the script a few more times before the announcement to see if anything changes.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Nov 9, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> I scraped the Spitfire website (both the new site and the old site which is still live at www2.spitfireaudio.com, although some links don't work), as well as Abbey Road's website, for any mention of anything, or a page that is not linked to anywhere but is publicly viewable if you have the URL.
> 
> Things like https://www.abbeyroad.com/audio-products/XX/modal where XX is a number. AROOF is #77, and other Spitfire libraries recorded at Abbey Road go up to #90 with Thematic Horns. And other URLs at both sites where something might have accidentally been put live early.
> 
> ...


Ah, the good old days when image names and urls gave the game away early. We got some good Spitfire “previews” that way. 😅


----------



## Francisco Lamolda (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> It would be interesting if Christian Henson is back as usual, and part of the presentation tomorrow.


I don't think so. Abbey Road Modular Orchestra is too important to be associated with Christian Henson. It hasn't been that long since he messed up.


----------



## Francisco Lamolda (Nov 10, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Ah, the good old days when image names and urls gave the game away early. We got some good Spitfire “previews” that way. 😅


Well, I got some previews by lookint at their Soundcloud a couple hours before some of their releases.


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## NathanTiemeyer (Nov 10, 2022)

Anyone think there's going to be a discount for owners of Orchestral Foundations or any of the selections? Or are we all going to collectively cry if there isn't a discount and buy the first section of the modular orchestra anyway? My wallet already knows the answer


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## Justin L. Franks (Nov 10, 2022)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Anyone think there's going to be a discount for owners of Orchestral Foundations or any of the selections? Or are we all going to collectively cry if there isn't a discount and buy the first section of the modular orchestra anyway? My wallet already knows the answer


My guess is an extra ~10% off the intro price, for a total of 30% off. The amount varies since intro pricing is normally somewhere around 20% off, but not exactly (just whatever $XX9 price is closest). Then the loyalty discount brings it at or close to 30% off.

That has been Spitfire's typical loyalty discount for the past few releases with one. Like Fractured Strings, $229 intro price / $299 full price = 23.4% discount, and the loyalty discount dropped it to $209 for a 30.1% total discount.


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## titokane (Nov 10, 2022)

Alright everybody, any final guesses?

I’m going with Abbey Road Legendary Percussion, kind of an updated Albion or HZP style cinematic drum library recorded in Studio One.

EDIT: Albion ONE's Darwin Percussion section is what I mean


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## doctoremmet (Nov 10, 2022)

titokane said:


> Alright everybody, any final guesses?
> 
> I’m going with Abbey Road Legendary Percussion, kind of an updated Albion or HZP style cinematic drum library recorded in Studio One.


Only one guess per forum member - sorry


----------



## Begfred (Nov 10, 2022)

Anyone think there's going to be a discount for owners of Orchestral Foundations or any of the selections? Or are we all going to collectively cry if there isn't a discount and buy the first section of the modular orchestra anyway? My wallet already knows the answer 
For sure there will be. I think…


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## ed buller (Nov 10, 2022)

DUNE HZ BAGPIPES

E


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## pete_crum (Nov 10, 2022)

titokane said:


> Alright everybody, any final guesses?
> 
> I’m going with Abbey Road Legendary Percussion, kind of an updated Albion or HZP style cinematic drum library recorded in Studio One.


I'm still going with: An initial release that either puts AROOF in context as the foundational component of the modular orchestra moving forward, OR a release that itself serves as the foundational component. The latter would be more consistent with the teaser video but would relegate AROOF to junior status.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 10, 2022)

Composer 2021 said:


> Despite having overpriced list prices, the SINE player letting you buy individual instruments at a time is a godsend for most people.


Agreed. It allowed me to get into Berlin Strings without breaking the bank.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Nov 10, 2022)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Anyone think there's going to be a discount for owners of Orchestral Foundations or any of the selections? Or are we all going to collectively cry if there isn't a discount and buy the first section of the modular orchestra anyway? My wallet already knows the answer


Awhile back Angus on the spitfire forums shut this down saying that orchestral foundations will be separate from abbey road 2 and the modular orchestra. And that a discount wouldn’t qualify because it’s a different series.


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## juliandoe (Nov 10, 2022)

titokane said:


> Alright everybody, any final guesses?


That's my guess:

Spitfire Audio Abbey Road Scoring Orchestra Module 1: Strings 
Professional £999 discounted to £699
Core £699 discounted to £349


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

My Guess:

Abbey Road Modular Orchestra Module 1.01: Flute 1, Articulation 1 (Long).


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## chrisav (Nov 10, 2022)

Super Abbey Road One Turbo Championship Edition HD Remaster: The New Challengers


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 10, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> Abbey Road Modular Orchestra Module 1.01: Flute 1, Articulation 1 (Long).


...and stay stuned for Module 1.02: Flute 1, Fluttertongue, coming spring 2025


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 10, 2022)

Maybe it will be....

SSMO

"@Staypufts Spitfire Modular Orchestra"

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## RogiervG (Nov 10, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Maybe it will be....
> 
> SSMO
> 
> ...


but then it would be a fake thing...


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## JohnS (Nov 10, 2022)

STMICHAELS said:


> Honestly, I am on the fence in purchasing my first set of libraries because of this player issues and it seems to be consistent on these threads.
> 
> I know this - i like the sound of Symphonic.
> 
> ...


If you have a powerful system to run it on, go on with BBCSO if you like the sound and you get it in good price. If you are aware of (and don't mind) its brass limitations and very weird, sluggish marcatos.
But, if you only have officially recommended 16GB of RAM, forget about using it comfortably. At the default buffer settings you will not squeeze all the 57 instruments active concurrently into RAM. To do it you'd have to lower the buffers, but then you will not be able to play them all at once. You'll be forced to freeze the tracks. And I'm only talking about using single mic signal per instrument.


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## RogiervG (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Maybe, but not before the full AR1MO is released. Which will take several YEARS !


It's ARMO!! 

Anyway: "we've ever undertaken" can also mean past sense, since it has been 2 years already since the announcement (which is multiple years already)..
it's just how you look at it... (multiple interpretations possible)


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## Nadav (Nov 10, 2022)

A truly great feat


JohnS said:


> If you have a powerful system to run it on, go on with BBCSO if you like the sound and you get it in good price. If you are aware of (and don't mind) its brass limitations and very weird, sluggish marcatos.
> But, if you only have officially recommended 16GB of RAM, forget about using it comfortably. At the default buffer settings you will not squeeze all the 57 instruments active concurrently into RAM. To do it you'd have to lower the buffers, but then you will not be able to play them all at once. You'll be forced to freeze the tracks. And I'm only talking about using single mic signal per instrument.


Never understood what’s the problem with freezing? You need to edit all tracks at the same time or something?


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## Noeticus (Nov 10, 2022)

My guess is that AR1MO will be the deepest sampling that SPITFIRE has ever done.


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## smellypants (Nov 10, 2022)

Noeticus said:


> My guess is that AR1MO will be the deepest sampling that SPITFIRE has ever done.


So which orchestral line do you think will still be deeper?


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## JohnS (Nov 10, 2022)

Nadav said:


> A truly great feat
> 
> Never understood what’s the problem with freezing? You need to edit all tracks at the same time or something?


It might not be problem when you clearly know what you are doing. But if you are beginner (read: most of BBCSO target users), and only start to learn orchestral colors, you might appreciate the possibility to quickly compare playing different combinations of instruments/articulations playing together unisono or transposed differently. Freezing/Unfreezing tracks takes time, especially considering Spitfire Player loading times. I find it inconvenient. YMMV.


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## Francisco Lamolda (Nov 10, 2022)

Low drums!


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 10, 2022)

That *is* modular then..


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## Francisco Lamolda (Nov 10, 2022)

10 dynamic layers and 12 round robins. 95.3 GB download size. A truly monster.

449 €, 314 € entry price.


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## cedricm (Nov 10, 2022)

I guess the target is professional composers, which I am not.
The whole orchestra will cost thousand of euros.
But most of all, it's hosted in the Spitfire plugin, which hasn't improved a bit in years and is inferior to Kontakt or Opus or Synchron Player in all ways.


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## Francisco Lamolda (Nov 10, 2022)

cedricm said:


> I guess the target is professional composers, which I am not.
> The whole orchestra will cost thousand of euros.
> But most of all, it's in the Spitfire plugin, which hasn't improved a bit in years and is inferior to Kontakt or Opus or Synchron in all ways.


The price, the size, the machine needed to run it...


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## Composer 2021 (Nov 10, 2022)

Will be passing on this for a while. Happy how this seems to indicate how insane they're going to go with this.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Price does not surprise me. VSL Synchron Percussion Full (which is the only thing remotely close to what Spitfire is doing in terms of depth of sampling) is 2k euros.


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 10, 2022)

Yeah, great that Spitfire are cranking it up to 11 and happy to wait. (Years!?)

It’s clear though I think, if you want a Spitfire orchestra right now (complete) then you’ll need to get busy with SSO or BBCSO.


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## Stillneon (Nov 10, 2022)

Phew, that's a relief. The whole thing is out of my league, so I can concentrate on BBCSO/SCS/SSO.


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## Noeticus (Nov 10, 2022)

smellypants said:


> So which orchestral line do you think will still be deeper?


Well, I can't be that PACIFIC.


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## MaxOctane (Nov 10, 2022)

100GB just for low percs...


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## Ricgus3 (Nov 10, 2022)

cedricm said:


> I guess the target is professional composers, which I am not.
> The whole orchestra will cost thousand of euros.
> But most of all, it's hosted in the Spitfire plugin, which hasn't improved a bit in years and is inferior to Kontakt or Opus or Synchron Player in all ways.


Yes, i should not bash on this. I understand what the target audience is. I don't really see my self ever shelling out 450$ for low percussion. Then I would guess another 450$ for high percussions. AS an owner of HZ percussion pro whcih has 9 RR and 6 Dyn-Layers... not really gonna bite on this ARMO, But it did made me more interested in AROOF now since those Percussions sounds great!


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## TomaeusD (Nov 10, 2022)

By the time they're finished with all the modules, the rest of the world will have moved on from these sampling methods. And because of this, I don't expect them to ever get around to updating and fixing current libraries.


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## Composer 2021 (Nov 10, 2022)

Maybe SSD storage will be a lot cheaper by 2025 when the Abbey Road Orchestra is all released...


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## mattnedgus (Nov 10, 2022)

Stillneon said:


> Phew, that's a relief. The whole thing is out of my league, so I can concentrate on BBCSO/SCS/SSO.


This was exactly my thinking too!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

TomaeusD said:


> By the time they're finished with all the modules, the rest of the world will have moved on from these sampling methods. And because of this, I don't expect them to ever get around to updating and fixing current libraries.


Optimistic outlook. Traditional sampling methods still dominate and sound better than the modeled approaches IMO.


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## MaxOctane (Nov 10, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> I don't really see my self ever shelling out 450$ for low percussion.


I agree, but I just want to point out you should never pay full price for libs. If you *really *want/need it, get it an intro price. If you don't really want/need it, wait a year and get it on Black Friday or whichever sale, because it *will* go on sale.


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## Composer 2021 (Nov 10, 2022)

I hate how modeled sampling libraries sound. They will never replace traditional sampling in my view.


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## ridgero (Nov 10, 2022)

400,- for Low Percussions

Okay, a 4-8k price range is on the table, thanks.


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## axb312 (Nov 10, 2022)

MaxOctane said:


> 100GB just for low percs...


There's ONLY 20 mics though. So 100/20 to get a rough idea of sampling depth.


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## SoftSynthLover99 (Nov 10, 2022)

Definitely overpriced in my opinion, $350 intro and $450 regular price Just for low percussion? No thanks.

Take away the Abbey Road Marketing and the Spitfire name, I’m not sure it’s a wise investment for a hobbyist or professional composer to spend $350-$450 on just low percussion. But if this is your thing by all means enjoy it!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

There's never a need to buy Spitfire libraries at full price. For example, my price for this is $278 with all the discounts.


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## Peter Satera (Nov 10, 2022)

Something like this becomes quite tempting during Black Weekend, where it would contribute to the free library when you spend over $349. 

I think there is a concern from me that with low percussion being split up out, we're bound to have high too and are they going to do that for the sections? High Strings? Low Strings? ...just thinking price wise.. it'll seriously mount up.


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## TomaeusD (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Optimistic outlook. Traditional sampling methods still dominate and sound better than the modeled approaches IMO.


I'm not necessarily referring to modeling but rather recording and development techniques. Look at what small teams/single developers like Performance Samples and Aaron Venture are able to accomplish. Even 8DIO started moving on with Soundpaint. I just think Spitfire is putting themselves in a tough position for growth and innovation. But maybe I'm wrong and these expensive approaches (cost and storage) will prove lucrative for them.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

TomaeusD said:


> I'm not necessarily referring to modeling but rather recording and development techniques. Look at what small teams/single developers like Performance Samples and Aaron Venture are able to accomplish. Even 8DIO started moving on with Soundpaint. I just think Spitfire is putting themselves in a tough position for growth and innovation. But maybe I'm wrong and these expensive approaches (cost and storage) will prove lucrative for them.


I was referencing Aaron Venture in my comment...and Performance Samples are using traditional techniques (Jasper always says that). Spitfire has spent time R&Ding new techniques - like in Appassionata Strings.


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## Nadav (Nov 10, 2022)

Peter Satera said:


> Something like this becomes quite tempting during Black Weekend, where it would contribute to the free library when you spend over $349.


Let the justifications begin.


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## erikradbo (Nov 10, 2022)

What, another full(er) orchestra from SA? How does this connect with their earlier released AR modular orchestra?


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## Peter Satera (Nov 10, 2022)

Nadav said:


> Let the justifications begin.


lol, more of a warning for those that have just opened their wallet/purse. They may want to hold off (this goes to 1st Dec)


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

If you are willing to wait, you could get this for 50% off - so $225.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 10, 2022)

erikradbo said:


> What, another full(er) orchestra from SA? How does this connect with their earlier released AR modular orchestra?


That is like the Albion cut-down ensemble version of what is to come. By the way, that one was not modular  - it has film scoring selections


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 10, 2022)

I started a dedicated user demo thread so that early adopters can share their experience and anyone who is on the fence about buying this library does not have to search the hundreds of pages in the other threads:

https://vi-control.net/community/th...estra-low-percussion-user-demo-thread.132131/


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## icecoolpool (Nov 10, 2022)

Ok, this release seems top notch and has the level of depth and detail that a lot of people here have been asking for from Spitfire.

So my question, has anyone used the Hammers percussion library with AROOF? How do they blend?


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## TomaeusD (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I was referencing Aaron Venture in my comment...and Performance Samples are using traditional techniques (Jasper always says that). Spitfire has spent time R&Ding new techniques - like in Appassionata Strings.


With PS it's "not next-gen" according to Jasper, but he's still recording performances in motion which is more efficient. With the Infinite Series, yes it's modeled but I would argue it will continue to improve to a point where its ease of use and realism will lead most working composers to prefer it. And with Appassionata Strings, that's exactly what I'm talking about! But ARMO appears to be going in the opposite direction of that, and the price and sampling depth reflect that. I'll personally never stop using my traditional sample libraries, but I'm at a point where I lean more towards the libraries that are light on resources, drive space and are easier to play in. Also I'm waiting for Infinite Series to leave that uncanny valley before I hop on board. For what it's worth, I've made good use of Sample Modeling brass so I know it's possible.


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Optimistic outlook. Traditional sampling methods still dominate and sound better than the modeled approaches IMO.


But unfortunately, Spitfire hasn't shown any outstanding programming chops so far, so there will be more performant sample libs out there. 

Having Abbey Roads sound and more layers (which in turn will kill my system) are probably the main things that will differentiate this huge uptaking, and while I salute them for the courage to invest in this project, I wonder...


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## cedricm (Nov 10, 2022)

Having watched the whole presentation, it does sound good.
But so are many percussion libraries.
Who would recognize the Abbey Road signature sound in a blind test? Not me, that's for sure. Which doesn't mean others can't.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> But unfortunately, Spitfire hasn't shown any outstanding programming chops so far, so there will be more performant sample libs out there.
> 
> Having Abbey Roads sound and more layers (which in turn will kill my system) are probably the main things that will differentiate this huge uptaking, and while I salute them for the courage to invest in this project, I wonder...


Appasionata Strings have some of the best legato scripting in any library out there IMO.


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Performance Samples are using traditional techniques (Jasper always says that).


Traditional for him, maybe...


----------



## Vlzmusic (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Appasionata Strings have some of the best legato scripting in any library out there IMO.


Exactly, some of the best in 2021. Now comes 2022 = Pacific. By the time Spitfire gets to do the strings..... god knows what.


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## Frederick (Nov 10, 2022)

I was never really going to go for a complete full modular Abbey Road Orchestra anyway, as I have invested in all their other orchestras, the Berlin series, CineSymphony, EWHO, and last but not least almost everything Synchron recorded, including the full percussion bundle (1TB of diskspace). And I'm only an untalented amateur. That's why I went for AROOF and the scoring selections from the beginning to still get a taste of Abbey Road.

After Appassionata Strings I was kind of hoping they would slice the releases with this also in useful parts that would make sense for me to buy, without having to break the bank. Apparently they are going for the professional users only at his point, which is their good right. So congratulations to Spitfire for releasing a great product! I'm grateful though that they also do release great additions to SSO!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> Exactly, some of the best in 2021. Now comes 2022 = Pacific. By the time Spitfire gets to do the strings..... god knows what.


We'll have to wait and see what Pacific is good at. Certainly not good at second violins.


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## Coffee-Milk (Nov 10, 2022)

Glad to have bought BBCSO recently for half the price, and probably will make good use of it for 2-3yrs. This series is out of my reach sadly. Hopefully, there'll be a noticeable discount when bundled.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

This sounds really good...

Homay's demo:


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> We'll have to wait and see what Pacific is good at. Certainly not good at second violins.


I guess Voyage will be more relevant competitor to AR modular strings, no? 

But I can definitely say, I will like Spitfire sound more... BBC strings are balsam for my ears already. 👂 👂


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> I guess Voyage will be more relevant competitor to AR modular strings, no?


I think you have more faith in Jasper than I do lol. He's just another developer in my book - good and bad sides to his libraries.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 10, 2022)

Okay. Off to the $40 Soundpaint Taikos I go… I am happy to have AROOF and the selections but this is a bit too elite for me. It does sound terrific though, doesn’t it?

For hobbyist virtual percussionists I just want to say: the little AROOF percussion set sounds just as great! So a taste of this is available for those of us who will never be able afford this.


----------



## doctoremmet (Nov 10, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Okay. Off to the $40 Soundpaint Taikos I go… I am happy to have AROOF and the selections but this is a bit too elite for me. It does sound terrific though, doesn’t it?
> 
> For hobbyist virtual percussionists I just want to say: the little AROOF percussion set sounds just as great! So a taste of this is available for those of us who will never be able afford this.


(I made this so I could screenshot it and send it to my wife of course)


----------



## jbuhler (Nov 10, 2022)

Looks to me fully bundled, ARO modular will likely be more than $4000. Depending on how many modules they plan, it may be more than $5000, maybe a lot more. And because it is a bundle, sales will only be 30% off that not 40% or 50%. Which is one reason for SF to make the modularization very granular.


----------



## DoubleTap (Nov 10, 2022)

It looks like they've gone to a lot of effort and there are some great sounds and playability there. I suppose it depends what the intention is. As a way of adding more versatility, it's impressive, but if the goal is realism then there's still important things missing (unless I missed the reveal during the video). 

A real percussionist would be able to move the sticks around the drum head to get different types of sound, and I'm curious to know how a fast roll would sound - when you get to a certain point you start using the bounce of stick on drum head to create more speed and it can change the character of the sound a bit - the really great players hide it brilliantly of course. These things are important for creating swell and colour and timbre changes in a drum sound though. 

But maybe that sort of thing isn't important for the composers using perc libraries, and scripting a press roll or a double roll would probably be a nightmare.

Anyway, perhaps Toontrack will now discount their Orchestral Percussion SDX


----------



## gst98 (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I was referencing Aaron Venture in my comment...and Performance Samples are using traditional techniques (Jasper always says that). Spitfire has spent time R&Ding new techniques - like in Appassionata Strings.


I agree with you about real samples always having a place, _especially percussion_, but I think what SF brands as new techniques is what JB considers traditional.


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## Raphioli (Nov 10, 2022)

Assuming from the price tag of the Low Percussions,
Strings might cost over 1k xD


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

So.. do you think AR1MO High-Perc. will be next ?


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

Raphioli said:


> Assuming from the price tag of the Low Percussions,
> Strings might cost over 1k xD


Yeah, this is going to be a pricy library, and require tons of storage. I hope their Player can deal with it as well.


----------



## prodigalson (Nov 10, 2022)

Yes, at this price point the modularity allows them to make very detailed and hi-spec libraries that are still sellable to a more or less larger amount of people. If they came in with a full percussion library at over $1000 people would have lost their damn minds. (even though it would be in line with VSL). But I could see more hobbyists and semi-pro's buying this at $300-400 if they want in on the ARO and don't have a ton of low perc.

Me, I'm out because I'm more than covered with great sounding low perc but when the other sections of the orchestra drop they'll be harder to resist if I can justify buying one module at a time.


----------



## smellypants (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Price does not surprise me. VSL Synchron Percussion Full (which is the only thing remotely close to what Spitfire is doing in terms of depth of sampling) is 2k euros.


This still doesn't match Synchron Percussion.

Just looking at the same instruments from both... Round robins/dynamic layers are similar with a slight edge to Synchron.

The articulations/tools available I would give quite a big edge to Synchron. Also there are more of each drum, taiko's, toms etc. with Synchron.

I would guess this may be the 2nd most detailed percussion library once it's completed.

I would also guess that some of the other sections may be closer to Synchron in terms of sampling depth than the percussion is.

This does look/sound great though, with some interesting and non standard drums/tools used.

But i'm now pretty sure this won't overtake the Synchron series as most detailed multi mic'd orchestra on the market... We'll see though.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Nov 10, 2022)

Well congratulations to Spitfire for releasing this, but I wonder about the paralysis of too much choice. I can imagine it taking ages just to work through the options....

Also the Spitfire Player - it doesn't float my boat.

I'm now heavily invested in VSL, and their gorgeous Synchron Player, which I think is the best out there. I'm very happy with what I have now and I am very pleased that I feel zero GAS whatsoever for this new release. 

However, I do wish the very best to the Spitfire time who have clearly put everything into this, and I hope it is a great success for them.


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## Ricgus3 (Nov 10, 2022)

TomaeusD said:


> With PS it's "not next-gen" according to Jasper, but he's still recording performances in motion which is more efficient. With the Infinite Series, yes it's modeled but I would argue it will continue to improve to a point where its ease of use and realism will lead most working composers to prefer it. And with Appassionata Strings, that's exactly what I'm talking about! But ARMO appears to be going in the opposite direction of that, and the price and sampling depth reflect that. I'll personally never stop using my traditional sample libraries, but I'm at a point where I lean more towards the libraries that are light on resources, drive space and are easier to play in. Also I'm waiting for Infinite Series to leave that uncanny valley before I hop on board. For what it's worth, I've made good use of Sample Modeling brass so I know it's possible.


Infinite series by Aaron is Sample based modeling and not pure modeled. Correct me if I am mistaken


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

smellypants said:


> This still doesn't match Synchron Percussion.
> 
> Just looking at the same instruments from both... Round robins/dynamic layers are similar with a slight edge to Synchron.
> 
> ...


Synchron Percussion is 4 volumes. This is just one so far. So of course, it would have less drums. Looking at the articulations, you'd have to look at the library itself since Spitfire doesn't publish the articulations in as much detail as VSL does. But on cursory glance, AROLP has a lot of beater options and a number of unique drums.


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## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

Loving the acoustics in AR1, and how they flatter the Perc. very organic, not harsh at all, and very rich sounding. I think AR1MO STRINGS are going to be Amazing.


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## jbuhler (Nov 10, 2022)

Raphioli said:


> Assuming from the price tag of the Low Percussions,
> Strings might cost over 1k xD


I wouldn't be surprised to see the strings over $2000, depending on how extensive the articulation set they cover.


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see the strings over $2000, depending on how extensive the articulation set they cover.


Yeah I agree, and also you can assume that there will be both a symphonic sized and chamber string sized modular libraries.


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## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

Anyone purchased the AR1MO Low-Perc ?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Anyone go ahead and purchase the AR1MO Low-Perc ?


I was contemplating emailing Spitfire to understand if any purchase before Black Weekend would still qualify for any of their Black Weekend promotions. If not, better to wait.


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## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I was contemplating emailing Spitfire to understand if any purchase before Black Weekend would still qualify for any of their Black Weekend promotions. If not, better to wait.


Yeah, I wonder for how long my $309. price will hold ?


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## jbuhler (Nov 10, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> Yeah I agree, and also you can assume that there will be both a symphonic sized and chamber string sized modular libraries.


Likely sordino as well.


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## Loerpert (Nov 10, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see the strings over $2000, depending on how extensive the articulation set they cover.


If it's symphonic, chamber and solo's strings with a ton of articulations, dynamic layers, RR's and good legato then take my money.


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## smellypants (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Synchron Percussion is 4 volumes. This is just one so far. So of course, it would have less drums. Looking at the articulations, you'd have to look at the library itself since Spitfire doesn't publish the articulations in as much detail as VSL does. But on cursory glance, AROLP has a lot of beater options and a number of unique drums.


You can look at the library in the walkthrough video and see all the articulations, some are even verbally mentioned. Synchron has a good chunk more in every instrument that's in both libraries.

The tool options for each instrument are much closer though.

And of course i'm not talking about the overall number of drums included vs Synchron percussion. What I mean is for example with the taiko's, Synchron has 10 different ones all different sizes, all with matching articulations and tools, Spitfire has 3.

Toms are similar, a significantly greater selection in Synchron, all with a good chunk more articulations, similar tool options and slightly more round robins/dynamic layer combinations.

All in all I would say Synchron Percussion is a pretty decent margin more detailed overall.


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## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

I'm impressed how clear, organic and punchy the fff dynamics sound in the demos.


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## ennbr (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Yeah, I wonder for how long my $309. price will hold ?


In the live stream Spitfire said Dec 1


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## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

ennbr said:


> In the live stream Spitfire said Dec 1


OK.. Thanks for the feedback. 

I think I will go for it. Love the way these low-perc sound, maybe the best I have heard.

Now where are Pacific Strings


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## pete_crum (Nov 10, 2022)

I'm a drummer. I appreciate how great the walkthrough sounded. But at $309 for low perc only there is zero temptation to buy. No way am I going that deep on a partial percussion library without the essential library modules available to evaluate concurrently. 

I was holding on picking up CSS/CSW to see what Spitfire had planned, but they've made it easy for me to decide now.


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

I said in an earlier post that if it was percussion then I was probably going to get it, however, I don't think I will it at the price it is at. If it also had the timpani included, then I would have probably got it as would have quite liked some deeply sampled timpani recorded at AR and the additional recorded percussion that it has to use with BBCSO Pro.

Also, going forward this has essentially confirmed how expensive and modular the whole lot is going to end up being meaning that I won't be buying into this. I might come back in many years' time when it is being sold much cheaper and as a whole bundle.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> OK.. Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I think I will go for it. Love the way these low-perc sound, maybe the best I have heard.
> 
> Now where are Pacific Strings


Was there any doubt.......


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## smellypants (Nov 10, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Likely sordino as well.


Spitfire have never released a separate sectional muted string library have they?

You think they'll do it this time?

I would love if someone did comprehensive sordino, sul tasto and ponticello libraries for both chamber and symphonic sizes.

Berlin is the closest available that i'm aware of. I'm pretty sure the Synchron series will cover this at some point as well.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

smellypants said:


> You can look at the library in the walkthrough video and see all the articulations, some are even verbally mentioned. Synchron has a good chunk more in every instrument that's in both libraries.


In case you haven't bought a Spitfire percussion library recently, the articulations shown in the player don't reveal everything that's mapped to the keys. Hammers is a good example of this - the articulations in the player show the "parent" articulation (like the beater type or ensemble size), but there are multiple different articulations mapped to the actual keys.


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## smellypants (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> In case you haven't bought a Spitfire percussion library recently, the articulations shown in the player don't reveal everything that's mapped to the keys. Hammers is a good example of this - the articulations in the player show the "parent" articulation (like the beater type or ensemble size), but there are multiple different articulations mapped to the actual keys.


Yes you are right, you can clearly see how many articulations there are on the keys for every instrument.

But no instrument matches the amount available in the Synchron equivalents.


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## jbuhler (Nov 10, 2022)

smellypants said:


> Spitfire have never released a separate sectional muted string library have they?
> 
> You think they'll do it this time?
> 
> ...


No, they haven't. Yes, I think they might because it offers a way toward further modularization and so keeping the price down. I don't expect sordinos to be one of initial string modules, and they might be included in the basic string sets. But if sordinos are not included as part of the basic set, I do imagine they will be released as a later module, sort of what OT did with Berlin Strings.


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## smellypants (Nov 10, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> No, they haven't. Yes, I think they might because it offers a way toward further modularization and so keeping the price down. I don't expect sordinos to be one of initial string modules, and they might be included in the basic string sets. But if sordinos are not included as part of the basic set, I do imagine they will be released as a later module, sort of what OT did with Berlin Strings.


Yes I like that idea, I wish this was the route more developers would take.

It also may increase the likelihood that the expansion would be more comprehensive.

Rather than say a few sordino's thrown into a main library, a more complete set of techniques recorded for a separate library.

Yes yes... I concur 👏


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## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

Michael Antrum said:


> Was there any doubt.......


No. AR1 has a very beautiful, and transparent yet epic quality to it. These Low Percs are very good proof, I hear no harshenss in the fff range in the demos I heard and a 3D type very realistic, and present sound. The acoustics are magical at AR1. 

I'm moving one of my unused large Spitfire Audio Libraries which is almost 100 GB in size, to an Archive/Backup drive. to make room for the 100 GB download of AR1MO Low-Perc. Can you guess which Spitfire Audio Library I'm moving to make room ?


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

smellypants said:


> Yes I like that idea, I wish this was the route more developers would take.
> 
> It also may increase the likelihood that the expansion would be more comprehensive.
> 
> ...


That may happen, unless they are going to include sordino versions of every articulation in the main string modules.

8dio Century strings 2 has a whole library just for sordino strings.


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## Daniel James (Nov 10, 2022)

$449 and almost 100gig for 13 drums we have already had sampled numerous times, even by Spitfire, with nothing particularly audibly different than the same shit we have had for the past 10 years. Packaged in the restrictive Spitfire Player.

Seriously what does this bring to the table? Abbey Road sounds great as you would expect, but no one will notice that in a mix, not enough to spend $450 for drums I already own 5 times over. Again this just feels like middle of the road sampling with a big brand name slapped on it, I guess that's becoming the Spitfire way.

Perc is the by far easiest of the instruments to sample. GTown, a free perc library, made as a fuck you almost 15 years ago, is still comparable in terms of sound and size to this it may even have more drums.....The Tonehammer percussion from over 10 years ago which sold for cheap still sounds just as solid and playable in comparison to what that video showed. DAMAGE 1+2 brought new types of perc to the table + awesome scripting and mapping controls. And when hosted in Kontakt you have direct editing control to take things even further. Even the perc from Spitfire like HZ perc and the Albions sound good and cover most of these bases already.

Also when it comes to perc and Spitfire I am reminded of the multiple libraries they have had phasing issues like in the Albion series. I think its almost certain Spitfire automate the mapping of their sample libraries, and so the amount of mistakes and sampling errors people find on Spitfire libraries is nothing new, but given that history of automating the process and the slow rate to fix errors, I would take caution being an early adopter until someone else gives it a stress test. Spitfire are known for their big brand names but are still not known to release solid bugless products yet.

So yeah after watching the video this is definitely not for me, and I am an absolute percwhore. Its like it has no...soul to it? Like imagine if this _didn't _have Abbey Road on the box....would it be as exciting to you. If this was Paul Thompsons Low Perc, would you be as pumped? Thats how it felt to me listening. I have learned with Spitfire, regardless of the brand, its still a Spitfire library, with all the good and bad that comes with it.

So who is this for? Spitfire hardcore fans, Abbey Road fans and people who like brand names enough to inspire them to write, I think.... I don't think you buy this in 2022, there is are too many cheaper/smaller filesize/Kontakt powered/creative options from the competition to see any real value in this one. This would be an amazing library to pick up in 2013, which is where I am convinced by the evidence of their releases Spitfire are stuck creatively, but it feels redundant today. And I am sure there are folks here who will get it and love it. But I don't personally see anything essential here. And I don't see any production value additions when the general tone of the room will be lost in most mixes, the drums themselves sound fine, but as mentioned the competition is strong in this field to the point you would get better production value results with something like DAMAGE which tonally takes you more places both in the sampling and in UI editing options.

At this point just release an Abbey Road reverb, I would take that any day over a whole new series of 2010's level sampling of instruments we have had access to for over a decade at comparable quality. I would rather put samples by creative devs in that room than have to buy all the Spitfire libraries I already have again, just this time recorded at Abbey Road.

Abbey Road deserves better and more diverse options.

-DJ


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## Nadav (Nov 10, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> $449 and almost 100gig for 13 drums we have already had sampled numerous times, even by Spitfire, with nothing particularly audibly different than the same shit we have had for the past 10 years. Packaged in the restrictive Spitfire Player.
> 
> Seriously what does this bring to the table? Abbey Road sounds great as you would expect, but no one will notice that in a mix, not enough to spend $450 for drums I already own 5 times over. Again this just feels like middle of the road sampling with a big brand name slapped on it, I guess that's becoming the Spitfire way.
> 
> ...


Haha. I was hoping Daniel will comment on this and help me keep my money.


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## gst98 (Nov 10, 2022)

I have to disagree with DJ because I think this sounds phenomenal to me, but is the Solo and Mute the only SF player upgrade? For the Perc release couldn't they at least give us a fully-adjustable velocity curve?


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## pete_crum (Nov 10, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> $449 and almost 100gig for 13 drums we have already had sampled numerous times, even by Spitfire, with nothing particularly audibly different than the same shit we have had for the past 10 years. Packaged in the restrictive Spitfire Player.
> 
> Seriously what does this bring to the table? Abbey Road sounds great as you would expect, but no one will notice that in a mix, not enough to spend $450 for drums I already own 5 times over. Again this just feels like middle of the road sampling with a big brand name slapped on it, I guess that's becoming the Spitfire way.
> 
> ...


Fuckin' A.


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## Loerpert (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Perhaps a helpful comparison - one of these demos is for Hans Zimmer Percussion (recorded at AIR) and one is for ARO Low Perc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I only see the navigation of VIC twice nothing to play :(


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> I only see the navigation of VIC twice nothing to play :(


Use a different browser? Desktop maybe.


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Use a different browser? Desktop maybe.


I get same on both internet explorer and firefox.


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## Zanshin (Nov 10, 2022)

Same here, chrome.


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## Loerpert (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Use a different browser? Desktop maybe.


Will try. Thanks


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Same here, chrome.


Strange! Works fine in Safari - but I also see the strangeness in Chrome.


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## Noeticus (Nov 10, 2022)

I look forward to the other Spitfire Abbey Road Orchestra releases.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Strange! Works fine in Safari - but I also see the strangeness in Chrome.


No it doesn't......


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

Also, what if they start to change course halfway through this? What if these pricier and deeper sampled libraries/modules start to not sale as expected or as well as planned in comparison to the costs to make? Will they start to cut corners on the other modules or just simple miss out certain things? Also, is there going to be some bigger innovations for their strings, brass and wind modules apart from more dynamics and RR? Will there be usability/playability and ease of use improvements and things such as new and improved performance legatos?


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## doctoremmet (Nov 10, 2022)

So. Many. Questions!

🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀🙀


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Something strange with posting links - only accessible to my account...trying again:

One is HZP, one is AROLP.

View attachment one.mp3


View attachment two.mp3



1 - AROLP
2- HZP


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

Also, I am hating that there is a separate player for each library with seemingly independent updates and features dependant on the library. They are selling two handed playing as a feature of the new AR low percussion library. Why has the spitfire player not just been updated for BBCSO Pro to include this 2 handed playing feature for BBCSO Pro percussion?


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## Loerpert (Nov 10, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> Also, I am hating that there is a separate player for each library with seemingly independent updates and features dependant on the library. They are selling two handed playing as a feature of the new AR low percussion library. Why has the spitfire player not just been updated for BBCSO Pro to include this 2 handed playing feature for BBCSO Pro percussion?


Because it involves new recordings..


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> Also, I am hating that there is a separate player for each library with seemingly independent updates and features dependant on the library. They are selling two handed playing as a feature of the new AR low percussion library. Why has the spitfire player not just been updated for BBCSO Pro to include this 2 handed playing feature for BBCSO Pro percussion?


If by "two handed playing" you mean the same samples mapped to two different areas of the keyboard, they have that in multiple other libraries where it is appropriate.

What I believe Paul was referencing though is they have recorded samples from Joby hitting the drum with both his right hand and his left hand (one of them being the dominant hand which will result in a slightly different sound to the sample). Those are then mapped in two different ways - split into two different sections of the keyboard or you can choose to have them mapped to the same key and just cycle through them as round robins.


----------



## easyrider (Nov 10, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> $449 and almost 100gig for 13 drums we have already had sampled numerous times, even by Spitfire, with nothing particularly audibly different than the same shit we have had for the past 10 years. Packaged in the restrictive Spitfire Player.
> 
> Seriously what does this bring to the table? Abbey Road sounds great as you would expect, but no one will notice that in a mix, not enough to spend $450 for drums I already own 5 times over. Again this just feels like middle of the road sampling with a big brand name slapped on it, I guess that's becoming the Spitfire way.
> 
> ...


I agree and DJ and ER are not best pals….😂


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## ridgero (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Something strange with posting links - only accessible to my account...trying again:
> 
> One is HZP, one is AROLP.
> 
> ...



In your examples I like HZP more.


----------



## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If by "two handed playing" you mean the same samples mapped to two different areas of the keyboard, they have that in multiple other libraries where it is appropriate.
> 
> What I believe Paul was referencing though is they have recorded samples from Joby hitting the drum with both his right hand and his left hand (one of them being the dominant hand which will result in a slightly different sound to the sample). Those are then mapped in two different ways - split into two different sections of the keyboard or you can choose to have them mapped to the same key and just cycle through them as round robins.


ohh ok, I think I have miss understood in that case. So, it's separate recordings for each hand. I did not realize that. Not fully watched the walkthrough for it.

I still don't see why all the spitfire libraries are not using the same player and are being split out per library. It's going to mean any actual player updates are going to be difficult to roll out to all the different libraries. Why not just have a main player like synchron player and have all libraries run from it with a different GUI skins for the different libraries.


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## Loerpert (Nov 10, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> ohh ok, I think I have miss understood in that case. So, it's separate recordings for each hand. I did not realize that. Not fully watched the walkthrough for it.
> 
> I still don't see why all the spitfire libraries are not using the same player and are being split out per library. It's going to mean any actual player updates are going to be difficult to roll out to all the different libraries. Why not just have a main player like synchron player and have all libraries run from it with a different GUI skins for the different libraries.


On that I very much agree with you


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> ohh ok, I think I have miss understood in that case. So, it's separate recordings for each hand. I did not realize that. Not fully watched the walkthrough for it.
> 
> I still don't see why all the spitfire libraries are not using the same player and are being split out per library. It's going to mean any actual player updates are going to be difficult to roll out to all the different libraries. Why not just have a main player like synchron player and have all libraries run from it with a different GUI skins for the different libraries.


Their player often has library-specific functionality, which is unlike the standard Synchron Player. More akin to Synchron Pianos vs. Synchron Harp vs. Synchron Organ players for example.


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## Jackdaw (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Something strange with posting links - only accessible to my account...trying again:
> 
> One is HZP, one is AROLP.
> 
> ...


This is funny, I expected to like AROLPLPBRRT more, but actually loved the HZP version....

Edit: btw is that HZP core or pro?


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Their player often has library-specific functionality, which is unlike the standard Synchron Player. More akin to Synchron Pianos vs. Synchron Harp vs. Synchron Organ players for example.


It does but I can imagine it's going to create difficulties in regard to updating the player for all the different libraries, seems like it would make much more sense to have one or two main players that all the libraries use.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Jackdaw said:


> This is funny, I expected to like AROLPLPBRRT more, but actually loved the HZP version....
> 
> Edit: btw is that HZP core or pro?


I believe Core. Also, one is composed by Christian, who is a stellar composer. So, that also might bias the preferences.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Something strange with posting links - only accessible to my account...trying again:
> 
> One is HZP, one is AROLP.
> 
> ...


When I heard the second example, I instantly knew it was AROLP.

I was wrong though…!


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## Vlzmusic (Nov 10, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> So who is this for...



I am a bit puzzled myself, but maybe Spitfire sees a niche it can fill, with mid-tier shows that leave the mockup as the "final" print version. Having meticulously sampled Abbey sound would probably help giving such productions "professional" polish.


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## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Something strange with posting links - only accessible to my account...trying again:
> 
> One is HZP, one is AROLP.
> 
> ...


The mics you use in AR1 version can make it sound very different. So, I think it's hard to compare these libraries, unless the Mics are taken into account.


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## NoamL (Nov 10, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> $449 and almost 100gig for 13 drums we have already had sampled numerous times, even by Spitfire, with nothing particularly audibly different than the same shit we have had for the past 10 years. Packaged in the restrictive Spitfire Player.
> 
> Seriously what does this bring to the table? Abbey Road sounds great as you would expect, but no one will notice that in a mix, not enough to spend $450 for drums I already own 5 times over. Again this just feels like middle of the road sampling with a big brand name slapped on it, I guess that's becoming the Spitfire way.
> 
> ...



We disagree often but I'm feeling what you wrote here Daniel. 

The Spitfire Player is a net downside until it gets updated. I am confident they WILL make it happen because otherwise, _no one_ will be able to use multiple modules of this orchestra at once. But for right now, it is what it is. 

Secondly, the combination of price, deep sampling, and modularity is just insanely ambitious and that is A GREAT THING. I look forward to being charged $1,500-$2,000 for "the last symphonic brass library you'll ever need," I am glad that Spitfire is going so far above and beyond SSO. But with this product, it's an insane sampling depth for an instrument section that... I was perfectly happy with how it was represented in AROOF with the Verdi Drums, Bass Drum Hits, and Soft Boom patches. Add a couple sampled crescendo rolls and I'd be in Valhalla. 

You're right that there are so many options out there now. In addition to all you mentioned there's SF own recent "Hammers." Totally unique sounds. The lineup of instruments in ARMOLP feels pretty similar to... HZ01. Yeah for a percussion nut there's a distinction, but in the depths of a mix to a layperson listening? 

Overall, it's a pass from me and I'm grateful that they did not bundle the timpani into this to force people to buy in.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> When I heard the second example, I instantly knew it was AROLP.
> 
> I was wrong though…!


LOL.. same thing happened to me. That's why I mentioned the Mics used have a huge impact here.


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## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

It would be nice to see how AR1MO LPerc. Taikos compare to VSL Taikos in Sychron ?


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> It would be nice to see how AR1MO LPerc. Taikos compare to VSL Taikos in Sychron ?


ARO LPerc


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## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> ARO LPerc


Yes, it's going to be (ARO ......) from now on.


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## blaggins (Nov 10, 2022)

Let the drum battles begin!

(Seriously I am looking forward to some comparisons, I hope that some of the folks who have gotten AROLP might endeavor to compare directly with other low perc libs... it's hard to tell the difference when it's two totally different pieces with different aesthetics and different mixing)


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)




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## Orlu (Nov 10, 2022)

I'm sorry, but they must be out of their minds to charge $450 for a few drums that aren't even that deeply sampled (barely any additional articulations besides the usual hits and rolls, and I don't consider up to 12RR and 10 dynamic layers anything special for percussion). Not to mention that sampling, editing and scripting simple percussion hits like this is about the easiest thing you can do in sampling.

Yes, the sound is great, but there are way too many alternatives out there that sound just as good for a WAY better value for me to even remotely considering this. Especially in times like these where you have to particularily careful with the money you spend.


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## ridgero (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>


Why weren‘t you waiting for the usual Spitfire If Else Black Friday Statement?

If Spent_Money >= 299 Then
Your_Library.append(Arbitrary_BF_library_name)
End If

😅


----------



## Vik (Nov 10, 2022)

Abbey Road Orchestra – Low Percussion (ARO-LP) (← 'modular' isn't in the product name anymore) would probably have been met with more enthusiasm if it wasn't for the 'pinaccle of orchestral sampling' thing this last week.

I don't know if it sounds better than other perc libraries for regular, somehow loud percussive music, but in Spitfire's defense: this is a long term project, meant to still be alive and kicking when RAM snd storage limitations are easier to deal with than today. For someone who hasn't invested in any perdussion libraries yet, this lib (for those who can afford it) may be more interesting than many of the other existing ones, due to the many dynamic layers.

I was expecting a brilliant new modular string library, so this was somehow a disappointment – more than it would have been if the just posted a teaser about a new percussion library coming up.
But lots of the music I listen to and make needs enough dynamic layers in the low dyn. range, and ARO-LP seems to be great at that.

But with only 13 instruments, this lib would be more tempting for some of us with more variety/ with 13 instruments that sounded really different from each other. If the plan is to release, say, 4 or 14 more percussion modules, all with a variety of sticks and pleny of RRs and dynamic layers, this lib could grow into something a lot more attractive than what it is right now. At the same tine, it kind of looks as if they have gone back to 10 year old Sable/Mural prices – even if the number of potential buyers is much higher today.



NoamL said:


> The Spitfire Player is a net downside until it gets updated. I am confident they WILL make it happen because otherwise, _no one_ will be able to use multiple modules of this orchestra at once.


Maybe that's why they didn't start with a string library – the player needs an uopgrade first?




Daniel James said:


> $449 and almost 100gig for 13 drums we have already had sampled numerous times, even by Spitfire, with nothing particularly audibly different than the same shit we have had for the past 10 years. Packaged in the restrictive Spitfire Player.


I know what you mean – my guess is that they would make more than twice as much on ARO-LP if they halved the price.


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## smellypants (Nov 10, 2022)

Orlu said:


> I'm sorry, but they must be out of their minds to charge $450 for a few drums that aren't even that deeply sampled (barely any additional articulations besides the usual hits and rolls, and I don't consider up to 12RR and 10 dynamic layers anything special for percussion).


The round robins/dynamic layers and variety of tools are very nice.

But I agree I would've liked VSL levels of depth for articulations and number of each drum eg. More taiko's, more toms etc.

Still I suspect other sections of ARO may be closer in that regard.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 10, 2022)

Vik said:


> Abbey Road Orchestra – Low Percussion (ARO-LP) (← 'modular' isn't in the product name anymore) would probably have been met with more enthusiasm if it wasn't for the 'pinaccle of orchestral sampling' thing this last week.
> 
> I don't know if it sounds better than other perc libraries for regular, somehow loud percussive music, but in Spitfire's defense: this is a long term project, meant to still be alive and kicking when RAM snd storage limitations are easier to deal with than today. For someone who hasn't invested in any perdussion libraries yet, this lib (for those who can afford it) may be more interesting than many of the other existing ones, due to the many dynamic layers.
> 
> ...


I think there are 20 instruments total, not 13.


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## pranic (Nov 10, 2022)

ridgero said:


> In your examples I like HZP more.


I listented to your examples on phone speaker, and that was my first thought, too.


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## ModalRealist (Nov 10, 2022)

I sort of want to hate and be a cynic about “pinnacle of orchestral sampling” being a low drum lib…

BUT, in fairness to SF, the breadth of technique sampling coupled with the depth of the dynamic layer and RR count does make it stand out (though I don’t know if it’s “better” stats-wise than Synchron).

I just hope that on the instruments with more “complex to sample” characters, they actually innovate and don’t just sample fifty types of sustain that can only play breves…


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## Baronvonheadless (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> No. AR1 has a very beautiful, and transparent yet epic quality to it. These Low Percs are very good proof, I hear no harshenss in the fff range in the demos I heard and a 3D type very realistic, and present sound. The acoustics are magical at AR1.
> 
> I'm moving one of my unused large Spitfire Audio Libraries which is almost 100 GB in size, to an Archive/Backup drive. to make room for the 100 GB download of AR1MO Low-Perc. Can you guess which Spitfire Audio Library I'm moving to make room ?


I would guess BHCT? (I did that recently, even tho I love a lot of patches I pretty much only use the flute chords so decided to retire it until I get more space.)


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## smellypants (Nov 10, 2022)

ModalRealist said:


> I sort of want to hate and be a cynic about “pinnacle of orchestral sampling” being a low drum lib…
> 
> BUT, in fairness to SF, the breadth of technique sampling coupled with the depth of the dynamic layer and RR count does make it stand out (though I don’t know if it’s “better” stats-wise than Synchron).


"The pinnacle of sampling" line i'm sure refers to what will be the entire orchestra, rather than this library only i'm guessing.

How true that turns out to be depends on how one defines the pinnacle I suppose.

Spec wise it's very close to Synchron in some regards and a decent chunk off in others. Overall it's not quite a match... So far at least.


----------



## Petrucci (Nov 10, 2022)

It sounds very good in walkthrough and it seems like the start of Synchron line, but from Spitfire. When all the modules get released into a nice bundle with sale price - I will probably jump on it, I like BBCSO and think that this line will be more comprehensive dynamic-wise and instrument variety/articulations-wise. Though it will probably take several years to wait at least)))


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> It sounds very good in walkthrough and it seems like the start of Synchron line, but from Spitfire. When all the modules get released into a nice bundle with sale price - I will probably jump on it, I like BBCSO and think that this line will be more comprehensive dynamic-wise and instrument variety/articulations-wise. Though it will probably take several years to wait at least)))


In the end after it's all complete, bundled together and been out for years it'll end up being priced at probably SSO Pro price ranges for the whole thing. In the end it may even end up being made available on subscription. Probably quite a long wait for that though.


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## bfreepro (Nov 10, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I would guess BHCT? (I did that recently, even tho I love a lot of patches I pretty much only use the flute chords so decided to retire it until I get more space.)


Omg I would never want to retire BHCT. That’s such a hidden gem


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

bfreepro said:


> Omg I would never want to retire BHCT. That’s such a hidden gem


Yeah it's a great library. One of my favourites.


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## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I would guess BHCT? (I did that recently, even tho I love a lot of patches I pretty much only use the flute chords so decided to retire it until I get more space.)


Nope. that one was retired, a long time ago.


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## NoamL (Nov 10, 2022)

Vik said:


> Maybe that's why they didn't start with a string library – the player needs an upgrade first?



And if the main reason we're getting this library first is because it was easier to record (pandemic) and easier to program (SF Player isn't quite ready for super deep sampled monophonic instruments), then... guess there's more ARO Perc on the batting order.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 10, 2022)




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## Go To 11 (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>



Good find! There are often extra gems in these tech walkthroughs.


----------



## X-Bassist (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>



So…. No one thinks the lettering on this interface is too tiny? I thought their old interfaces were too tiny, now the GUI is much larger, but the lettering and controls seem even smaller (!). I’m surprised no one has an issue with this.


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## Go To 11 (Nov 10, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>



The new Solo and Mute buttons for single mic signals is a great addition.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 10, 2022)

X-Bassist said:


> So…. No one thinks the lettering on this interface is too tiny? I thought their old interfaces were too tiny, now the GUI is much larger, but the lettering and controls seem even smaller (!). I’m surprised no one has an issue with this.


The player can be resized, I'm pretty sure.


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 10, 2022)

Go To 11 said:


> The new Solo and Mute buttons for single mic signals is a great addition.


When's the solo and mute buttons coming for all their other libraries in their player? My question would be why hasn't those mute and solo buttons been added in an update to BBCSO Pro and AROOF and all of their other libraries?


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## mussnig (Nov 10, 2022)

Aitcpiano said:


> When's the solo and mute buttons coming for all their other libraries in their player? My question would be why hasn't those mute and solo buttons been added in an update to BBCSO Pro and AROOF and all of their other libraries?


I've wanted something like this for libs that use Spitfire's player for years. I am glad they finally implemented it and Iike you I very much hope they will update BBCSO, AROOF, Hammers, etc. accordingly (actually I expect them to do that).

Of course RAM purging would be even better ...


----------



## holywilly (Nov 10, 2022)

I’m hoping all spitfire plugin to have mute and solo buttons. 

Still not sure about the low percussions, they seem to have many alternatives.


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## sumskilz (Nov 10, 2022)

ModalRealist said:


> BUT, in fairness to SF, the breadth of technique sampling coupled with the depth of the dynamic layer and RR count does make it stand out...


I don't agree about the breadth of technique sampling. There are no flams or ruffs. Most of the fundamental articulations are missing for the non-Western drums. Granted, just playing these non-Western drums like toms is most common in orchestral contexts, but Stormdrum 3 has all the main traditional articulations. Having distinct right and left samples was a good move, but they are missing samples of drums hit while the head is already in motion and a script to trigger them, which some EastWest and HandHeldSound libraries have. The "up to" dynamic layers aren't really that high for percussion, although the round robin count is.


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## babylonwaves (Nov 11, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> The player can be resized, I'm pretty sure.


Yes


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## jonathanwright (Nov 11, 2022)

For me, it was a no before I even listened to it. 100GB is just too much space for a library that will most likely be lost in a mix most of the time.

My second concern is investing in this now is a bit risky. I'd rather hear how the strings, brass and winds sound first. It would be extremely frustrating to invest a lot of money in the initial modules (or in this case a module of a module) only to find that the brass section doesn't sound great when it's released.


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## sundrowned (Nov 11, 2022)

Shame it's not a la carte. I'd probably get a few things.


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## mussnig (Nov 11, 2022)

jonathanwright said:


> It would be extremely frustrating to invest a lot of money in the initial modules (or in this case a module of a module) only to find that the brass section doesn't sound great when it's released.


I also think it would be a bit frustrating to invest a lot of money in the initial modules only to find out that the Strings or Brass are way too expensive ... (at least for my wallet)


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## Vik (Nov 11, 2022)

sundrowned said:


> Shame it's not a la carte. I'd probably get a few things.


Yes, especially since it's the first and only libraru in their new Orchestra. One benefit of a la carte is that it also serves as a relatively inexpensive way to check out stuff.
Also, with only one library, it isn't modular yet – that argument will become stronger as they expand the library. Additionally – the longer it takes before this library has enough modules to be considered modular in a useful way, the more time the potential users will have to buy other libraries, and with all the single instruments, ensemble libraries and a la carte instruments existing out there, many of us already have a pseudo-modular solution.

Still: I would have bought it if the price was good, since I'm a dynamiclayerholic and it generally sounds good. Are there any other great percussion libraries out there with as many layers as AROLP – in the same price range as AROLPs intro price?


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## Raphioli (Nov 11, 2022)

mussnig said:


> I also think it would be a bit frustrating to invest a lot of money in the initial modules only to find out that the Strings or Brass are way too expensive ... (at least for my wallet)


Not just the price, but, will the Spitfire Player be able to handle it.
Because I've read on this forum that their AR2 Iconic Strings still has unsolved issues.

I would also like to see "mic merge" for the Spitfire Player. Having all those mic positions, dynamics etc.
I'm not sure if even the current gen PCs would be able to handle a whole AR:Orchestra playing in real time.
But with mic merge, it becomes realistically (easily) possible.

Additionally, for a library expensive as this, I would like to see the number of dynamics and round robins for *each instrument*. "up to" won't cut it imo, because you could just have 1 or 2 instruments "up to" 10 dynamics.

The demos sound great though.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 11, 2022)

Raphioli said:


> Not just the price, but, will the Spitfire Player be able to handle it.
> Because I've read on this forum that their AR2 Iconic Strings still has unsolved issues.
> 
> I would also like to see "mic merge" for the Spitfire Player. Having all those mic positions, dynamics etc.
> ...


Yeah, I remember the BBCSO launch where Paul & Christian did everything they could to not reveal the number of dynamic layers and only said that instruments had “up to” 3 dynamics …..


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 12, 2022)

mussnig said:


> I also think it would be a bit frustrating to invest a lot of money in the initial modules only to find out that the Strings or Brass are way too expensive ... (at least for my wallet)


Yeah I’ve chewed on this for a couple of days. It’s a *slightly* awkward release in that either

(a) You have a serious need for low end percussion and this fits the bill or..

(b) it’s an investment in the modular library, but a bit of a blind one.

I think it would really help if Spitfire talked about the roadmap for the mod orch. Not hard and fast dates, but an indication of what’s coming, how they foresee the modules looking etc. (maybe there was and missed it?)

For clarity, I love that Spitfire are doing this. But perhaps they need to show a little more ankle?


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## blaggins (Nov 12, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Yeah I’ve chewed on this for a couple of days. It’s a *slightly* awkward release in that either
> 
> (a) You have a serious need for low end percussion and this fits the bill or..
> 
> ...


I don't think you missed it, they haven't talked about what's coming, we don't even know which module is next yet, but I suspect we'll know more as time goes on. Totally agree with you btw, I'm not getting this even though it sounds amazing. I have no idea what the rest of the orchestra will look like, or cost, and the value of low perc recorded in Abby Road (for me) really depends on what else I have that is recorded in the same way and in the same space...


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 12, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> It’s a *slightly* awkward release (…)


It really is. Like, who is the target customer? Hobbyists generally can’t or won’t spend that kind of money on a sample library, I think, and most Pros probably have at least a couple of pretty high quality percussion libraries already (Damage 2, Synchron, HZP, Hammers, SSO percussion, Cineperc etc.)


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## Nadav (Nov 12, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> It really is. Like, who is the target customer? Hobbyists generally can’t or won’t spend that kind of money on a sample library, I think, and most Pros probably have at least a couple of pretty high quality percussion libraries already (Damage 2, Synchron, HZP, Hammers, SSO percussion, Cineperc etc.)


You are underestimating the power of good marketing.


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## smellypants (Nov 12, 2022)

Vik said:


> Are there any other great percussion libraries out there with as many layers as AROLP – in the same price range as AROLPs intro price?


Yes, a company whose name starts with "V" and ends with an "L".

That library has more layers than AROLP though.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 12, 2022)

Nadav said:


> You are underestimating the power of good marketing.


Well, it has always seemed to me that the business employees in Spitfire are very good at their job, so you could be right. I hope so for Spitfire’s sake.


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## Saxer (Nov 12, 2022)

"Ah, percussion!"
"No tonal percussion!"
"Ah, only the non tonal half of percussion!"
"No, no cymbals, no trinangles, no gongs."
"Ah, only the half of the non tonal half of the percussion!"
"No, no hi drums, only low drums."
"Ah, so it's the lower half of the non tonal percussion without the non tonal metal!"
"Yepp."
"I see. And this is the first chapter of a complete orchestra? When is it complete?"
"How old are you?"


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## Raphioli (Nov 12, 2022)

Nadav said:


> You are underestimating the power of good marketing.


Yes.
Never underestimate, "excited/exciting" and Paul's smile


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 12, 2022)

Saxer said:


> "Ah, percussion!"
> "No tonal percussion!"
> "Ah, only the non tonal half of percussion!"
> "No, no cymbals, no trinangles, no gongs."
> ...


"What? You're 13 already? Don't even bother then!"


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## mussnig (Nov 12, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Like, who is the target customer?


The group of traget customers starts with "muzik" and ends with "sculp" 😉


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 12, 2022)

Probably.
And as this is the speculation thread..

I refuse to believe that SF are simply winging this as they go along. There must be a schedule, studio time booked several years in advance and a planned ROI.

For all those commenting that the new library won't sell very well: I wonder if this is built into the plan? It might some time before SF begin to recoup on the cost of this project and instead they're using it as an R&D platform and for asset creation. Maybe we'll see offshoots of the recordings (core versions, "budget" versions containing the bread and butter stuff etc.) as the project continues and SF look to recoup.

Perhaps we're missing the bigger picture here? I don't know. I _do_ know that this thread could well top the BBCSO one eventually as we rampantly comb over details of each module. Fun times ahead.


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## Aitcpiano (Nov 12, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> Probably.
> And as this is the speculation thread..
> 
> I refuse to believe that SF are simply winging this as they go along. There must be a schedule, studio time booked several years in advance and a planned ROI.
> ...


You make some very good points and indeed Spitfire are probably looking at longer term goals and profits from this. As you say, perhaps, they are expecting lower sales values with this initial ARO release.

Furthermore, they probably still have other libraries they know will likely sale well with quicker profit returns in between their ARO releases. Perhaps an Appassionato brass and woodwind library recorded in air in the cheaper price ranges are planned and as you mentioned, they can still introduce a core version of all the ARO modules released at a much lower price to start increasing sales of the ARO range.


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## mussnig (Nov 13, 2022)

Maybe they also release other, more demanding sections later to have more time to make their player more "pro".


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## milford59 (Nov 13, 2022)

The release of this library might be Spitfire’s “jumping the shark” moment….. it *might* be…. And we won’t know for a long time … until all of the modules have been released…. Not some of them, but ALL of them…. And how long will this take ? If there is a schedule, then perhaps we need to be told.

I bought a Korg Oasys keyboard in 2005 at a time when it was head and shoulders above anything else in the market, with the promise from Korg of an open Architecture and continued development. They dropped it like a hot brick a couple of years later - presumably because sales (it cost £5,500 back then) were slower than they would have liked…….

The poll, on another thread, shows that 70% of the people who have responded are either not interested, or are waiting for some or all of the other modules to be released. Seriously, nobody needs 100GB library of Low Percussion with what’s already available out there. Actually, let me rephrase that…. It’s not “nobody”… it’s 8 people (count them) out of the 263 who have responded to the poll so far.


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## Corda1983 (Nov 13, 2022)

Daniel James said:


> $449 and almost 100gig for 13 drums we have already had sampled numerous times, even by Spitfire, with nothing particularly audibly different than the same shit we have had for the past 10 years. Packaged in the restrictive Spitfire Player.
> 
> Seriously what does this bring to the table? Abbey Road sounds great as you would expect, but no one will notice that in a mix, not enough to spend $450 for drums I already own 5 times over. Again this just feels like middle of the road sampling with a big brand name slapped on it, I guess that's becoming the Spitfire way.
> 
> ...


I concur. Nothing wrong, ostensibly, with this library, I just feel we’ve sort of reached a point of maximally diminished returns with this approach to things. It’s not that anything about it is bad, and to each their own - I totally see why it appeals to some, but I’m just not that excited by the bewildering mic choices, the physical size of it etc.

Without some kind of commensurate progress in technology and approach, in making these tools increasingly useful and intuitive, there just doesn’t feel a lot here that hasn’t been with us for a decade or more. And whilst there’s a definite quality to the sound, it’s not something that truly elevates this library or, indeed, this whole project to a new level of must-have sampling.

That’s not to disparage the ambition. And there’s plenty of people that will get a lot of use out of this I’m sure, I just think I’m personally not that excited by this sort of direction of travel. It’s like movie VFX - there’s more, they’re bigger, and yet they haven’t really pushed the envelope for 15+ years, whatever the hype.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Nov 13, 2022)

milford59 said:


> The release of this library might be Spitfire’s “jumping the shark” moment….. it *might* be…. And we won’t know for a long time … until all of the modules have been released…. Not some of them, but ALL of them…. And how long will this take ? If there is a schedule, then perhaps we need to be told.
> 
> I bought a Korg Oasys keyboard in 2005 at a time when it was head and shoulders above anything else in the market, with the promise from Korg of an open Architecture and continued development. They dropped it like a hot brick a couple of years later - presumably because sales (it cost £5,500 back then) were slower than they would have liked…….
> 
> The poll, on another thread, shows that 70% of the people who have responded are either not interested, or are waiting for some or all of the other modules to be released. Seriously, nobody needs 100GB library of Low Percussion with what’s already available out there. Actually, let me rephrase that…. It’s not “nobody”… it’s 8 people (count them) out of the 263 who have responded to the poll so far.


Yep, I saw that poll. I suspect though that it’s not quite representative of the customer base. The thread that follows is pretty much an axe grind against the release. I gave up after a couple of pages. 

But I see your point. I bet the new library isn’t flying off the shelves like, say BBCSO did. And I suspect Spitfire expected this. Loooong term stuff.


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## easyrider (Nov 13, 2022)

I was drip fed AROOF.

I should have just waited and bought the whole thing at 50% off last week.


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## easyrider (Nov 13, 2022)

I think it’s a tough sell…especially in these difficult time of cost of living etc…

I love spitfire products and it sounds great…but it’s 100GB , expensive and peppered with mic signals most of us won’t use…

I also think spitfire should update AR2 etc…and develop their Player rather than release new libraries while leaving past libriares out in the cold.


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## Pop Corn (Nov 13, 2022)

They should have started with a top down approach, not a bottom up. Show us the "hard to sample" stuff first. That would inspire confidence going forward.


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## Hansu Heya (Nov 13, 2022)

Won't buy this! They promised to sample pineapple and they didn't!


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## Baronvonheadless (Nov 13, 2022)

Pop Corn said:


> They should have started with a top down approach, not a bottom up. Show us the "hard to sample" stuff first. That would inspire confidence going forward.


This!


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## muziksculp (Nov 13, 2022)

Yes, Let's hear the Game Changer New String Legatos of AR Strings


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## antanasb (Nov 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, Let's hear the Game Changer New String Legatos of AR Strings


Here, AROOF high/mid strings legato pack could offer a good possibility to do exactly that?


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## muziksculp (Nov 13, 2022)

antanasb said:


> Here, AROOF high/mid strings legato pack could offer a good possibility to do exactly that?


Kind of, if they ever get released  , but the real deal is : *AR Strings*


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Kind of, if they ever get released  , but the real deal is : *AR Strings*


You won’t be sated until the entire orchestra is released, will you?
Excellent. 💪😅


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## antanasb (Nov 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Kind of, if they ever get released  , but the real deal is : *AR Strings*


Thematic violas (mid) and soaring violins (high), haha!

Would be nice, if they offered mid-tier option. It could be positioned price and requirement wise between AROOF and ARMO. Because even if space is not so expensive, it still is an issue I think..


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## Begfred (Nov 13, 2022)

When BBCSO came out people where complaining about the lack of velocity layers, basic legato, no fff on brass, not enough rr… Some was willing to pay twice the price to get a deeper sampled BBC orchestra.
Now that they’re releasing the most detailed orchestra serie they’ve ever recorded, people are complaining about it being too expensive.
They already have SSO that is covering the gap between BBC SO and AR, so I think it’s a good move to go all in with this one so they have something to compare with and maybe surpass Berlin and Synchron’s offering.
I think any sample library could be use on final production if used and mixed properly, but some composers are willing to pay more for the top sampling quality in a great room like Abbey Road. Can’t tell if this is the case for ARLP since I have not tried it but I heard some good demos so far.

it’s certainly not for everyone’s needs like I don’t need a 10k$ Shadow Hills compressor in my studio.


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## muziksculp (Nov 13, 2022)

OK, the library I put into retirement to make room for AR Low Perc. is : 

Spitfire: *Studio Woodwinds Pro*. 

I have it archived, so I can call back to service if I need to, but I doubt it.


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## Begfred (Nov 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> OK, the library I put into retirement to make room for AR Low Perc. is :
> 
> Spitfire: *Studio Woodwinds Pro*.
> 
> I have it archived, so I can call back to service if I need to, but I doubt it.


I did not not responded but I swear I have guest it was one of the Studio serie.😆


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## soulofsound (Nov 13, 2022)

Much of the complaints could be avoided with a more conceptually balanced approach to their products.

For AR2 both light and full version are a no-go for me, the former for lack of articulations, the latter for too many mic positions that take up way too much space.

BBCSO learned me i don't need all the mics, and would have preferred more dynamic layers, especially in the brass and winds.

AR1 is very cool, mostly due to its stellar sound, so the lack of legato is just mind-boggling.

With all they have going for them, and they do have some of the best libraries available, it is a bit sad that they make some of their potentially best products unappealing in that sense.


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## Loerpert (Nov 13, 2022)

I see a lot of people comparing mic positions with dynamic layers and talking about pricing and stuff. I just want to note that extra microphones are a fraction of the cost compared to capturing more dynamic layers. It's easy to place more microphones, so why not do it. Capturing more dynamic layers takes alot more time and money.


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## antanasb (Nov 13, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> I see a lot of people comparing mic positions with dynamic layers and talking about pricing and stuff. I just want to note that extra microphones are a fraction of the cost compared to capturing more dynamic layers. It's easy to place more microphones, so why not do it. Capturing more dynamic layers takes alot more time and money.


Probably articulations are more comparable? So like a compromise between dynamic layers and articulations. And BBC didn't skimp on the latter really...


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## Loerpert (Nov 13, 2022)

antanasb said:


> Probably articulations are more comparable? So like a compromise between dynamic layers and articulations. And BBC didn't skimp on the latter really...


Yeah that seems more comparable indeed!


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## muziksculp (Nov 13, 2022)

Some bad news .. CPU meter is going nuts when using two mics and playing some fast notes using AR Low Perc. I have my RAM Buffer set at 512 . NOT GOOD !


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## muziksculp (Nov 13, 2022)

SO.. No more ARO Libraries for me, until Spitfire seriously improves their Player's efficiency.

Just wanted to bring this to your attention if you are planning on buying this library.

*UPDATE *: See my post here about this issue https://vi-control.net/community/th...hestra-speculation-thread.112985/post-5220498


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## ennbr (Nov 13, 2022)

Sadly it's not a new problem it first showed up with BBCSO Pro when using lots of mic positions this is like the old days when software features would be released knowing that CPU's and memory would get better in the future


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## antanasb (Nov 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> SO.. No more ARO Libraries for me, until Spitfire seriously improves their Player's efficiency.
> 
> Just wanted to bring this to your attention if you are planning on buying this library.


Is it way worse than AROOF? What about comparison to BBC Core? 


ennbr said:


> Sadly it's not a new problem it first showed up with BBCSO Pro when using lots of mic positions this is like the old days when software features would be released knowing that CPU's and memory would get better in the future


Performance reports of these libs was always keeping me off of them.. I would like to upgrade to BBC Pro, but I am afraid that additional mics will slaughter my rig, although I find BBC Core quite fine. Is it still not fixed yet?


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## ennbr (Nov 13, 2022)

antanasb said:


> Performance reports of these libs was always keeping me off of them.. I would like to upgrade to BBC Pro, but I am afraid that additional mics will slaughter my rig, although I find BBC Core quite fine. Is it still not fixed yet?


don't let that stop you the default mic positions are pretty resource friendly


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## Flyo (Nov 13, 2022)

Really, with this performance and their just leave behind actions with recent and olders (Pro or no Pro) libraries with bugs, and any improvement on their proprietary player also.
I think they just cannot ask for $300~$450 for a single Modular Low Percussion.


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## Pop Corn (Nov 13, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Some bad news .. CPU meter is going nuts when using two mics and playing some fast notes using AR Low Perc. I have my RAM Buffer set at 512 . NOT GOOD !


Goodness. Now I'm glad they didn't do strings or winds first. We'll need a Mac from the year 2040 to run this orchestra... Maybe that's the kind of timeline we're looking at for the entire collection?


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## easyrider (Nov 13, 2022)

Try changing the voices to 64?



https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360009315218-Reduce-CPU-Level-in-Originals-


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## dzilizzi (Nov 13, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> I see a lot of people comparing mic positions with dynamic layers and talking about pricing and stuff. I just want to note that extra microphones are a fraction of the cost compared to capturing more dynamic layers. It's easy to place more microphones, so why not do it. Capturing more dynamic layers takes alot more time and money.


Yes, but more mics means more samples to process, which, depending upon how much they can automate it, still cost money to do.


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## Petrucci (Nov 13, 2022)

More articulations instead of many mics would be much better approach. I mean, Synchron Perc has more articulations (flams, hit on rims, hits on center, multiple diminuendos, multiple crescendos, 2 reps-3reps-4reps etc) and reasonable amount of mics as well as cheaper Standard vs Full sets but with the same amount of articulations, RRs etc. So the only positive point in comparison would be different sound and cooked mixes in Spitfire ARLP.


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## smellypants (Nov 13, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> More articulations instead of many mics would be much better approach. I mean, Synchron Perc has more articulations (flams, hit on rims, hits on center, multiple diminuendos, multiple crescendos, 2 reps-3reps-4reps etc) and reasonable amount of mics as well as cheaper Standard vs Full sets but with the same amount of articulations, RRs etc. So the only positive point in comparison would be different sound and cooked mixes in Spitfire ARLP.


Yes... More articulations especially on the VSL level is a lot more work and cost though.

I think a big reason that VSL is able to go so crazy with the sampling depth is that they have always owned the places they record.


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 13, 2022)

smellypants said:


> I think a big reason that VSL is able to go so crazy with the sampling depth is that they have always owned the places they record.


Yeah, stands to reason. Abbey Road is a fully working commercial studio. It’s not like Spitfire can waltz in any time they like.


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## Lee Blaske (Nov 13, 2022)

Just watched the introduction video again. 14k have watched that video, so far. Also interesting to note that Spitfire Audio has 203k subscribers. Crazy how this has involved into such a big business. In the world, there must be an enormous number of people creating film-score-ish music. Obviously creating a lot more music than films need. I wonder where this phenomenon goes from here. Will things plateau, increase, or decrease? Is this a fad, or will countless people be pursuing this as an avocation from here on out?


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## Reznov981 (Nov 13, 2022)

smellypants said:


> But i'm now pretty sure this won't overtake the Synchron series as most detailed multi mic'd orchestra on the market... We'll see though


I think I agree (can't know for sure yet of course), but I have a feeling that ARO will likely have an edge in sweetness and sonority. VSL are nearly immaculate, albeit known by many for lacking character that provides the sense of passion or humanity. That's not saying they objectively are, but if Spitfire is famous for one thing, it's sheer good _sound_. And when you combine that with even the 2nd or 3rd most deeply sampled orchestra ever, that's a thing many will pay the big price tag for.


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## sumskilz (Nov 13, 2022)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, but more mics means more samples to process, which, depending upon how much they can automate it, still cost money to do.


I don't think that it does. I'm assuming that based on the fact that there is rarely ever a reason to manually process or edit a single track within a multitrack performance separately (until mix time). I think they throw in so many mics because they believe that it creates more perceived value at a relatively negligible cost to themselves. To me, having so many mics is a drawback. About five would be better than sixteen or whatever it is. I'm clearly not alone in that preference, but we may not all prefer the same five, so the option to download only the mic signals you want is the obvious solution, as has been pointed out by many here. I have no doubt that Spitfire is aware of that request, but so far...


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## muziksculp (Nov 13, 2022)

Hi,

Here is a bit of good news, I noticed this post by @easyrider , which he suggested taking down the max voices parameter to 64. It was way up around five hundred someting. So, I gave it a try, changed it 64, and tested with 3 mics enabled, playing many notes in fast succession, to try to get the clicks, and CPU overload, but none of that happened. It kept running without any CPU issues. I was totally surprised. So, I decided to take a step further, by reducing the Max Voices to 45. It seems to do the trick.

So, give this a go if you are experiencing CPU overloads when using multiple mics, and heavy midi data.

I Wish to Thank @easyrider for this very helpful tip, suggestion that he posted. Now if the AR Low-Perc
Player can speed up load times I would be happier. It's just slow loading patches.

Here is how set it up :










Spitfire Audio : Abbey Road 1 Modular Orchestra - Speculation Thread.


Kind of, if they ever get released :laugh: , but the real deal is : AR Strings :cool: Thematic violas (mid) and soaring violins (high), haha! Would be nice, if they offered mid-tier option. It could be positioned price and requirement wise between AROOF and ARMO. Because even if space is not...




vi-control.net





Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Saxer (Nov 13, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> Just watched the introduction video again. 14k have watched that video, so far. Also interesting to note that Spitfire Audio has 203k subscribers. Crazy how this has involved into such a big business. In the world, there must be an enormous number of people creating film-score-ish music. Obviously creating a lot more music than films need. I wonder where this phenomenon goes from here. Will things plateau, increase, or decrease? Is this a fad, or will countless people be pursuing this as an avocation from here on out?


If people have a hobby they want to have the tools like the pro's. It's the same with bicycle clothes (I still remember a time when people just took a bike to ride a bicycle. These days they change clothes from head to toe). Same with fishing equipment or cameras. Every amateur band has a pro PA in the rehearsal room.

So I don't think all of the sample library customers are really creating film music. There are a lot of collectors and wannabes.


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## Mike Stone (Nov 14, 2022)

sumskilz said:


> I don't think that it does. I'm assuming that based on the fact that there is rarely ever a reason to manually process or edit a single track within a multitrack performance separately (until mix time). I think they throw in so many mics because they believe that it creates more perceived value at a relatively negligible cost to themselves. To me, having so many mics is a drawback. About five would be better than sixteen or whatever it is. I'm clearly not alone in that preference, but we may not all prefer the same five, so the option to download only the mic signals you want is the obvious solution, as has been pointed out by many here. I have no doubt that Spitfire is aware of that request, but so far...


When working with e.g. something like a string library, there are a lot of transitions from vibrato to non vib, velocity transitions for smooth cresecendos/diminuendos etc. Can all that be automated, and still sound great? Wouldn't manual fine-tuning be necessary to get a satisfactory result? Then again, maybe over-reliance on automated processes is what explains various poorly edited notes and bad transitions, that should have been rooted out by a cursory QC.


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## sumskilz (Nov 14, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> When working with e.g. something like a string library, there are a lot of transitions from vibrato to non vib, velocity transitions for smooth cresecendos/diminuendos etc. Can all that be automated, and still sound great? Wouldn't manual fine-tuning be necessary to get a satisfactory result? Then again, maybe over-reliance on automated processes is what explains various poorly edited notes and bad transitions, that should have been rooted out by a cursory QC.


I don’t know for certain, because my editing experience is all with live instrument performances, but generally any edit that is not done on all the mic signals simultaneously is a recipe for creating phase issues, not removing them. I don’t think they are automating the process of clipping out the samples, but normally you would group all the microphones together and do them simultaneously.


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## easyrider (Nov 14, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is a bit of good news, I noticed this post by @easyrider , which he suggested taking down the max voices parameter to 64. It was way up around five hundred someting. So, I gave it a try, changed it 64, and tested with 3 mics enabled, playing many notes in fast succession, to try to get the clicks, and CPU overload, but none of that happened. It kept running without any CPU issues. I was totally surprised. So, I decided to take a step further, by reducing the Max Voices to 45. It seems to do the trick.
> 
> ...


No worries,

I had to search this issue myself using AR2


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## Corda1983 (Nov 14, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> Just watched the introduction video again. 14k have watched that video, so far. Also interesting to note that Spitfire Audio has 203k subscribers. Crazy how this has involved into such a big business. In the world, there must be an enormous number of people creating film-score-ish music. Obviously creating a lot more music than films need. I wonder where this phenomenon goes from here. Will things plateau, increase, or decrease? Is this a fad, or will countless people be pursuing this as an avocation from here on out?



I think ventures like LABS and many others has opened orchestral/media scoring up to a lot of people now, including a lot of hobbyists. There's a lot of free and very affordable stuff, and huge amounts of content. 

That having been said, YouTube subscriptions and views are free for users. They don't necessarily translate to big business - I think the actual world of media composing is still fairly small, certainly when it comes to buying bigger libraries and the machines needed to run them. 
As somebody else said on here - millions of people watch content about videography, or creating 3D graphics, or driving fast cars, or carpentry. 

But the number of those people that translate to paying customers or anything other than very casual hobbyists is likely pretty low - some people just enjoy the content, or enjoy the hobby extremely casually and invest very little money or time in it.


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## redlester (Nov 14, 2022)

Saxer said:


> If people have a hobby they want to have the tools like the pro's. It's the same with bicycle clothes (I still remember a time when people just took a bike to ride a bicycle. These days they change clothes from head to toe). Same with fishing equipment or cameras. Every amateur band has a pro PA in the rehearsal room.
> 
> So I don't think all of the sample library customers are really creating film music. There are a lot of collectors and wannabes.


This is without doubt true.

I don't frequent this place too often now, because in the last two years I've shifted my main obsession into Eurorack which is what really excites me. But I still love messing around with attempts at music/media composition purely as a hobby.

In 2018, in the Spitfire Black Friday tombola, I won the Everything Collection. Something beyond my wildest dreams, and the one and only time I've ever won big on anything like that. Some long term readers might know this left me with a conundrum of my own making. Purely because I couldn't stand the thought of owning everything one day then no longer doing so once something new came along. (If I recall correctly, the first things released after I won Everything were Studio Brass and Albion Neo although my chronology could be muddled). Prior to Covid I wasn't spending much on other things so I was able to continue my - at face value - silly obsession with owning everything Spitfire produced, simply for the satisfaction of having it all. Obviously this is unsustainable indefinitely but I've kept it up for four years - using the Everything discount those £29 libraries only cost £18 a pop.

But now am at a point where my wife is retiring next May, and I will be doing the same in just under three years. Money will be tighter and - worst of all - I will have to run all purchases past her! So am focussed on building my Eurorack collection as far as I can until things have to slow down. One could say I've just swapped one obsession for another, but at least with Eurorack (unlike Spitfire) there is an excellent second hand market if I ever wish to sell anything, and some products actually increase in value with age.

Therefore this, along with the fact that its the launch of a new very expensive and hugely SSD-filling product range, seems a good point for me to step off the ride and to restrict myself in future to only products I actually want and can justify, rather than just collecting them to make myself feel warm inside.

So, to paraphrase what the true addicts say: my name is @redlester and I no longer own Everything by Spitfire. Now what's that weight I feel lifted...?


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## Nadav (Nov 14, 2022)

redlester said:


> This is without doubt true.
> 
> I don't frequent this place too often now, because in the last two years I've shifted my main obsession into Eurorack which is what really excites me. But I still love messing around with attempts at music/media composition purely as a hobby.
> 
> ...


This story should be adapted into a major motion picture.


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## jbuhler (Nov 14, 2022)

Corda1983 said:


> I think ventures like LABS and many others has opened orchestral/media scoring up to a lot of people now, including a lot of hobbyists. There's a lot of free and very affordable stuff, and huge amounts of content.
> 
> That having been said, YouTube subscriptions and views are free for users. They don't necessarily translate to big business - I think the actual world of media composing is still fairly small, certainly when it comes to buying bigger libraries and the machines needed to run them.
> As somebody else said on here - millions of people watch content about videography, or creating 3D graphics, or driving fast cars, or carpentry.
> ...


I recall VSL saying that the bulk of their purchases were from doctors and lawyers not professional composers (those who make the bulk of their income from composing)—and this was well before hobbyists dominated the market the way they do today. Judging from what folks on VI-C report, I'd say doctors and lawyers are very much supplemented today by well-compensated tech workers. All of these folks can easily afford high-priced libraries in the same way they can afford expensive cars and large houses. In any case, purchases by doctors, lawyers, tech workers, etc. are what produces the scale that has lowered prices for VIs drastically over time. Lowering the price made some libraries affordable for a larger class of hobbyist/aspirational composers as well as composers starting out. That in turn created a market for lower priced "professional" libraries, and volume can increase profit even as margins decrease. But that's only one part of it.

Higher priced libraries that can't tap the larger market due to the price can still be profitable by increased margins. And high price can keep libraries more exclusive, increasing the perceived value of the library but also burnishing the reputation of the company, much like luxury lines of cars can be marginally profitable or even lose modest amounts for the company but still be valuable to the company's performance if the luxury car line helps the reputation of the company enough that it also increases demand across the product line.


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## Justin L. Franks (Nov 14, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Looks to me fully bundled, ARO modular will likely be more than $4000. Depending on how many modules they plan, it may be more than $5000, maybe a lot more. And because it is a bundle, sales will only be 30% off that not 40% or 50%. Which is one reason for SF to make the modularization very granular.


Most Spitfire bundles are discounted further during sales.

Only exceptions are SSO bundles (permanently at ~50% off), and the AROOF + Selections bundle (because the Selections are all $49 items which are excluded from discounts during sales).


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## Lee Blaske (Nov 14, 2022)

Saxer said:


> If people have a hobby they want to have the tools like the pro's. It's the same with bicycle clothes (I still remember a time when people just took a bike to ride a bicycle. These days they change clothes from head to toe). Same with fishing equipment or cameras. Every amateur band has a pro PA in the rehearsal room.
> 
> So I don't think all of the sample library customers are really creating film music. There are a lot of collectors and wannabes.


Problem is, there's no entry bar, anymore. A bicycle/fishing hobbyist doesn't have an easy way to compete with the pros. A music producing hobbyist, however, can dump tons of tracks into music libraries and streaming services, diluting the value of content produced by pros.
But beyond that, I really wonder what the life cycle of this new phenomenon will be. It's pretty clear that Spitfire is heavily marketing to the hobbyists and wannabes. Sure, some of them won't amount to much, but with so many people flooding into the field, it's going to make things more competitive. And, with a mountain of music available out there, there will be continuing pressure for the actual professionals to charge and earn less.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 14, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> A music producing hobbyist, however, can dump tons of tracks into music libraries and streaming services, diluting the value of content produced by pros.


Sickening, isn't it?


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## jbuhler (Nov 14, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Most Spitfire bundles are discounted further during sales.
> 
> Only exceptions are SSO bundles (permanently at ~50% off), and the AROOF + Selections bundle (because the Selections are all $49 items which are excluded from discounts during sales).


The usual SF sale price for the big sales (Xmas, May, and I think August) is 40% off on individual libraries, 30% off bundles. Bundles themselves usually offer between 20%-30% off the price if individual libraries are bought separately. That standard sales pricing has indeed been eroded somewhat by 50% sales. But those are irregular, and the SSO bundle is unusual.


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## lettucehat (Nov 14, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> The usual SF sale price for the big sales (Xmas, May, and I think August) is 40% off on individual libraries, 30% off bundles. Bundles themselves usually offer between 20%-30% off the price if individual libraries are bought separately. That standard sales pricing has indeed been eroded somewhat by 50% sales. But those are irregular, and the SSO bundle is unusual.


Let's hope the next 100k Youtube subscribers come faster than the last 100k.


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## easyrider (Nov 14, 2022)

I got 65% off The Black weekend curated bundle. It had EWC in it…


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## jbuhler (Nov 14, 2022)

easyrider said:


> I got 65% off The Black weekend curated bundle. It had EWC in it…


Yes, the curated bundles almost always offer great deals, and very low cost way of picking up libraries if you happen to own most of the curated bundle already.


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## SupremeFist (Nov 14, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> SO.. No more ARO Libraries for me, until Spitfire seriously improves their Player's efficiency.
> 
> Just wanted to bring this to your attention if you are planning on buying this library.
> 
> *UPDATE *: See my post here about this issue https://vi-control.net/community/th...hestra-speculation-thread.112985/post-5220498


Man if I were you I'd just be jamming on my new Analog Rytm MkII and Polybrute.


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## soulofsound (Nov 14, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Sickening, isn't it?


No, i don't think so. Many more people are creating content right now, so the market for ready-made music expands, too. It doesn't mean the pool of composers, able to live of their craft, has to shrink necessarily. There will always be a need for tailored products at a premium price.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 14, 2022)

soulofsound said:


> There will always be a need for tailored products at a premium price.


That's the issue....with the rise of the "bedroom composers", the over-saturated library market has become a race to the bottom. Low monthly subscriptions and dirt cheap licenses have literally destroyed income opportunities for countless professional composers. Of course, there are still the higher-end clients willing to pay, but that has crated fierce competition and put a lot of us out of work (it has become an elitist game). I wrote music for a client for many years, until he recently succumb to the $10 per month subscription models. Sure, it makes economic sense from his perspective, but had no problem paying for custom music until then.

Sorry to digress…


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 14, 2022)

It's exactly what happened to the desktop publishing and graphic design industries not so very long ago. From what I understand, the Visual FX industry has gone or is going the same way.


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## Lee Blaske (Nov 14, 2022)

soulofsound said:


> No, i don't think so. Many more people are creating content right now, so the market for ready-made music expands, too. It doesn't mean the pool of composers, able to live of their craft, has to shrink necessarily. There will always be a need for tailored products at a premium price.


I'd like to think that there will be someone at the top of the food chain, doing well. But from my observations, "premium price" work is becoming scarce, and the "price" keeps lowering. Clients are not interested in paying a lot of money for something, if they don't have to. Clients are realizing that there are some really talented folks out there willing to do amazing work at lowball prices.


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## Lee Blaske (Nov 14, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I wrote music for a client for many years, until he recently succumb to the $10 per month subscription models. Sure, it makes economic sense from his perspective, but had no problem paying for custom music until then.
> 
> Sorry to digress…


As of late, I've been hearing of agencies with employees whose job is to keep track of the market and what's available, to specifically ascertain if the agency is paying too much for various services. 

There are clients with long term relationships with music producers who, for the moment, continue to pay what they've been accustomed to paying over the years. That might not last forever. And realistically, if this work was like other work, we'd be raising rates now, due to inflation.


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## blaggins (Nov 14, 2022)

Y'all are touching on some broader issues (inter-twined with globalism, capitalism, commoditization of art, probably many other things). I'd guess it deserves its own thread, and not to be buried 53 pages deep in a discussion about a drum library.


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## Lee Blaske (Nov 14, 2022)

blaggins said:


> Y'all are touching on some broader issues (inter-twined with globalism, capitalism, commoditization of art, probably many other things). I'd guess it deserves its own thread, and not to be buried 53 pages deep in a discussion about a drum library.


Well, I expect it really doesn't matter, anyway, because the composing fad is still gaining momentum, and people aren't going to be stopping anytime soon. Even watching the video ads of "producers" touting the wonderfulness of MIDI Chord Pack, it's pretty clear that all of those folks think they've got a hit on their hands. Discussion of this might as well be buried. 

The relevance to discussing this in context with Abbey Road Orchestra 1, is that this release and ongoing project is yet another step in ratcheting up the marketing at SF. Kind of going in the opposite direction of lower priced library content, and coming out with a premium, flagship product, with fancy videography to promote it. But, does a $449 library of just low drums, missing a lot of articulations that other libraries currently have get to be billed as a premium product? For a certain portion of the market, setting a high price that people have to reach for makes the product more visible, and coveted. It's kind of like spending thousands on a Rolex watch, when a Rolex watch won't give you more accurate time than a very inexpensive watch, or your iPhone.

BTW, full disclosure, I currently own everything Spitfire makes prior to this library. This might be the straw that breaks the camel's back and I suddenly wonder: "What was I thinking???"


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## holywilly (Nov 14, 2022)

I really want to thank @muziksculp showing me the tip of lowering voice count inside the Spitfire plugins, it brings out a whole new world.


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## QuiteAlright (Nov 14, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> BTW, full disclosure, I currently own everything Spitfire makes prior to this library. This might be the straw that breaks the camel's back and I suddenly wonder: "What was I thinking???"


Is it fair to label you somewhat of a collector then? I think it would be fair to call this library overpriced, if you were comparing it to the rest of the market these days. 

But I think this is reminiscent of older sample libraries in terms of pricing. And despite offering a fairly small selection of patches, the ones I've listened to sound good. If you're willing to be patient, it seems like Spitfire does 50% off sales regularly, so you'll be able to pick it up at $225 eventually.


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## soulofsound (Nov 14, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> I'd like to think that there will be someone at the top of the food chain, doing well. But from my observations, "premium price" work is becoming scarce, and the "price" keeps lowering. Clients are not interested in paying a lot of money for something, if they don't have to. Clients are realizing that there are some really talented folks out there willing to do amazing work at lowball prices.


That is indeed a sad evolution.


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## X-Bassist (Nov 15, 2022)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> The player can be resized, I'm pretty sure.


Thanks. Too bad the player is a decent size but the font is tiny. Wish I could scale up the font. Not sure why Spitfire loves all the empty space on their GUI.😂

TBH It’s another reason to pass, so thank you SF. I’ve got enough to do what I need, all at decent prices. With the market for Original music diminishing (a producer yesterday asked me how big my library music collection was after talking about sampled instruments and SFX😂) I’m not sure if getting paid as a composer will ever rise to editing and mixing job levels again.

Like classic cars (and classic parts) the field for expensive samples may come down to how many hobbiests can afford it. And those who care in a pro field that doesn’t.


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## muziksculp (Nov 22, 2022)

Hi,

Now that we have ARO : Low-Perc. available, what do you think will be their next ARO Library ? 

Let's get some speculations in here


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## SammyBrown (Nov 22, 2022)

Good question, will they finish off percussion before moving on, or branch out and release a module from a different section?


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## muziksculp (Nov 22, 2022)

My speculation is they will play it safe, and release either mid or high perc. next. Surely none of the Strings will be next


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## lettucehat (Nov 22, 2022)

Do they ever release a new library other than the Aperture stuff near Black Friday? I feel like if they going to split up percussion they widely they could easily release a new one every few weeks.


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## titokane (Nov 22, 2022)

I’m gonna wild and say Low Woodwinds. Generally recorded as solos (fewer people in the room during COVID) but still lets them show off some fancy legato tech.


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