# Miroslav Philharmonik 2 Reviews?



## Michael K. Bain (Dec 17, 2015)

Anyone seen any reviews of Miroslav 2, which was released today? 
i googled for reviews but the only things I found were press releases.


----------



## bill45 (Dec 17, 2015)

Gonna take people awhile to download 55GB.


----------



## Michael K. Bain (Dec 17, 2015)

Yeah, That's right. I was mainly wondering if anyone had links to professional industry reviews.


----------



## AllanH (Dec 17, 2015)

Michael K. Bain said:


> Yeah, That's right. I was mainly wondering if anyone had links to professional industry reviews.



I'm not sure about a "professional review", but I'll post an "unprofessional" one when I've had a chance to play with it


----------



## nineofkings (Dec 17, 2015)

The quality of the demos is so hit-or-miss, I feel like it's one that you really have to coax to get it to sound good. I haven't tried it, it just seems that way based on the audio.


----------



## Michael K. Bain (Dec 17, 2015)

AllanH said:


> I'm not sure about a "professional review", but I'll post an "unprofessional" one when I've had a chance to play with it


Thanks very much!


----------



## AllanH (Dec 18, 2015)

The install went fine, following the directions on how to overcome the path limitations on Windows. MP2 installs in the SampleTank3 folder structure and inherited some, but not all of ST3's settings. I had to change audio to ASIO and set/reset buffer sizes etc. Nothing especially difficult or surprising.

The software seems somewhat untested with many small quirks: huge latency after loading instruments, sometimes it takes 5-10 seconds before all keys of a particular instrument plays, the FX section default "EQ compr" randomly does not do anything, etc. I found a few examples (can't remember exactly which), where the Round-robin samples were markedly different from one sample to the next. They appear to use 2 RR samples.

IK must be mostly Mac based, because these sorts of issues are easy to identify (took me 5 minutes). Interestingly, the legacy MP1 included sound just as good as they used to.

So at this point it's been a bit frustrating and disappointing, and I've yet to encounter the "legendary soul". I'll give it some more time over the week-end.

Please recognize that this is a preliminary opinion.


----------



## Michael K. Bain (Dec 18, 2015)

AllanH said:


> The install went fine, following the directions on how to overcome the path limitations on Windows. MP2 installs in the SampleTank3 folder structure and inherited some, but not all of ST3's settings. I had to change audio to ASIO and set/reset buffer sizes etc. Nothing especially difficult or surprising.
> 
> The software seems somewhat untested with many small quirks: huge latency after loading instruments, sometimes it takes 5-10 seconds before all keys of a particular instrument plays, the FX section default "EQ compr" randomly does not do anything, etc. I found a few examples (can't remember exactly which), where the Round-robin samples were markedly different from one sample to the next. They appear to use 2 RR samples.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your prelim opinion. I'm looking forward to more!


----------



## bosone (Dec 18, 2015)

I passed the upgrade because i am not convinced by the ST3 engine.
no advanced scripting seems present to handle legato or other advanced phrasing, that nowadays should be a must for any orchestral library. 2RR samples???? are they kidding??

the library seems very overpriced for what it offers. it's a pity, indeed..


----------



## Sid Francis (Dec 18, 2015)

Nothing, really nothing in the demos could move me to buy this although I liked the original Philharmonik a lot (full version) But I don´t see/hear the advantages of the actual release...:-(


----------



## ArtTurnerMusic (Dec 18, 2015)

I preordered, and I regret the purchase. Maybe Metropolis Ark has something to do with that. I originally ordered because I liked the more "European" sound of the original. I will probably still think up ways to use it.


----------



## Michael K. Bain (Dec 18, 2015)

ArtTurnerMusic said:


> I preordered, and I regret the purchase. Maybe Metropolis Ark has something to do with that. I originally ordered because I liked the more "European" sound of the original. I will probably still think up ways to use it.


Thanks for letting us know. I am sorry you are not happy.


----------



## emid (Dec 18, 2015)

Listening to the demos, not convincing at all. Sounds like an upgraded version of edirol orchestral. Sorry guys those who have purchased it. May be the demos are not done well.


----------



## AllanH (Dec 20, 2015)

*Brief Review of Miroslav Philharmonic 2 (MP2)*

In continuation of the previous post:

The install went fine, following the directions on how to overcome the path limitations on Windows. MP2 installs in the SampleTank3 folder structure and inherited some, but not all of ST3's settings. I had to change audio to ASIO and set/reset buffer sizes etc. Nothing especially difficult or surprising. IK released an update that fixed some of the most obvious problems.

My early issues with huge latency seem to have disappeared, and instruments now load in a few seconds. Could have been me, a bug, indexing, anti-virus, “first load and config”, or something else.

The samples are recorded and presented dry, i.e. without reverb. This is especially obvious for the strings. The samples are clear and detailed and sound good. I prefer relatively dry recordings as they mix better with other instruments, and essentially allow me to add reverb that is consistent across instruments.

I do want to point out that the brass has some room-sound built in, so they are not “completely dry”.

There are both Ensemble and Solo version of the instruments – they sound good together and are consistent. Some of my favorite MP1 are also included and have been updated to fit within the MP2/ST3 infrastructure.

Things to be aware of:

1) I’m used to using CC1 to transparently switch between velocity layers (sometimes called dynamics). MP2 instead provides one or more independent recording of e.g. ff, mf, and p and expect me to switch between them as different articulations. To me, this is a HUGE limitation and makes it very difficult to use the instruments. A bit disappointed.

2) Everything is velocity based, so contrary to how most orchestral libraries work, I have to pick e.g. a mf string sample, use key-velocity (i.e. hit harder) to increase volume and then switch to a ff-sample when appropriate. For e.g. brass, where the tonality changes the harder one blows, MP2’s approach is highly inaccurate as there is much more to the sound than just volume. I realize some of this can be addressed by mapping CC1 to “expression” (which I did), but it does not address the dynamics. A bit disappointed.

3) Make sure to use the individual samples, such as e.g. “14 violins Sustain ff” and not the “14 Violin Multi”. Somehow the Multis (to me) do not sound as good. Not clear why.

4) The interface is a skinned version of Sample Tank 3, and is thus familiar.

5) Nit-pick: In my opinion, “sustain” means “hold until I release the key”. This is not consistently the case. Often, in MP2, “sustain” means “3-5 seconds then stop playing”. Historically, in MP1, the “hold until released” was called “looped” so there is some precedence for MP not using the commonly accepted definition of sustain.

6) RR: I can no longer find it, so it might have been a bug fixed, but I could hear 2 round-robin samples in the brass. Now it all sounds “the same”, so the RR count is likely low.

7) On the FX tab, I really like the “EQ Comp” that is on by default. I promptly turn the “Comp” to 10 db, as it adds great presence. The “ConvoRoom” reverb is excellent. ConvoRoom is OFF by default, but adds great reverb if no external verb is needed.

8) I’m happy to see the MP1 instruments updated and included.


On a daily basis I use East West QL Hollywood Orchestra Diamond and Albion One/I. MP2 is sonically different from both, and sounds more “intimate” or like a “small/nimble ensemble”. I can see a place for it when I need a smaller and clean/clear sound.

*In summary*: I like the sound. It’s tedious to not have CC1-switching for dynamics, and I think this ultimately will result in me not using it much. If I did not have experience with the “bigger” libraries I would likely have been pretty pleased with the upgrade.

Please recognize that this is one person’s current opinion. Hope this was helpful.

Allan

*EDIT July 2017*: I wrote this "review" a few days after getting MP2. As this post still gets referenced, I though I should add a few notes here summarizing other posts I made later:
a) MP2 got a major update in summer of 2016 that fixed many of the smaller issues I had run into.
b) I still love the sound of MP2 and use it frequently. I miss CC1 dynamics and work around that by automating "expression", adjusting key velocity, and switching articulation. 
c) The FX rack is fantastic and gives great ability to affect the instruments
d) I believe MP2 has a very unique clear and intimate sound not found in other libraries. Especially for the string sections and solo instruments.


----------



## nineofkings (Dec 20, 2015)

Wow. That's the worst possible way to handle dynamics, especially in an orchestral setting, that I've ever heard. I really wanted this to be awesome.


----------



## Michael K. Bain (Dec 20, 2015)

AllanH said:


> *Brief Review of Miroslav Philharmonic 2 (MP2)*


Thank you very much for taking the time to write that thorough review!


----------



## bosone (Dec 21, 2015)

after reading your review i'm glad i did not update my Miro1...
it seems they used concepts from 20 years ago in handling orchestral samples..


----------



## chimuelo (Dec 21, 2015)

Its never really been upgraded since GSIF.
Pity too as the Celli is still one of the finest sounding sample recordings.
Recently lost my ancient Scope DSP/Gigastudio DAW and always loved the Malmsjo Piano ans Miraslav Celli splits.


----------



## AllanH (Dec 21, 2015)

There is definitely something special about the original MP1. The solo Cello, for instance, is fantastic. So I' m really thrilled that they moved the originals over and updated them for MP2. I use the solo strings in a few places. MP1 is also one of the few libraries with a flugel horn (another favorite). It's really a pity that they didn't switch to the modern way of handling dynamics.


----------



## kitekrazy (Dec 21, 2015)

ArtTurnerMusic said:


> I preordered, and I regret the purchase. Maybe Metropolis Ark has something to do with that. I originally ordered because I liked the more "European" sound of the original. I will probably still think up ways to use it.



That's like a person who really likes oranges but bought some apples instead. Sampletank is a rompler and nothing like Kontakt.


----------



## koolkeys (Dec 21, 2015)

MP2 looks to be a product that isn't aware of anything else in the market. I feel like the core sounds are good, but the details aren't thought through very well. And it is all based on a very underpowered engine that wasn't designed for orchestral strengths. These sounds may be gold to somebody doing certain types of modern pop music where they just need something that is "good enough". 

But I have yet to see anything in a classic or film score style from MP2 that is convincing. And it is obviously because of the lack of things like legato(at least real legato, since I know they claim to have legato that is poorly emulated), true dynamic morphing, etc. 

I'm sure that in the right hands, it can sound very good. And some demos are 'alright'. But I just have the feeling that most people on VI-Control are not the target audience. Sampletank has always been about straightforward sounds with low detail, and it doesn't seem that is changing. They do a good job as a workstation-type soundbank, like you would find on hardward keyboards. But that is as far as it goes, at least in my opinion.

Brent


----------



## pavolbrezina (Dec 21, 2015)

From what I heard from the demo songs, this library sounds pretty cheap.


----------



## JE Martinsen (Dec 21, 2015)

Price wise it is everything but cheap. And the competition is fierce. The regular price for the download version (no upgrade/crossgrade) is £499. For less than that you can get EW Symphonic Orchestra Platinum Plus. Or for a tiny bit more, Hollywood Orchestra Diamond! You could also get the VSL SE 1 Bundle for a tenner more. Another contender is an olden goldie, Peter Siedlaczek's Complete Orchestral Collection which will set you back a measly £145. Updated and with added content.


----------



## JPQ (Dec 21, 2015)

But these other libraries (expect this Peter Siedlaczeks stuff maybe) needs more powerful computer if i understand correct none Mac Minis can handle nicely Eastwest Symphonic Orchestra earlier i tested their free sample my older mac mini which has little bit faster processor i think.(i updateed becouse it seemshave usb problems). even free sample if i remember correctly is bit too heavy for anything bigger.


----------



## novaburst (Dec 22, 2015)

MP2 small overview, 

Firstly it is a little buggy 2ndly its not perfect and needs some things addressed.

I am a user of VSL, East west, emotional cello,kirk hunters stuff,

I have read in some post that you should use violins sustained ff instead of multi because it has a nicer sound, but let me clarify that by using multi violins you are going to get sustained ff included in the mapped out key switch articulation and some more sustains too, also let me say that LP would mean looped and that will would play continuously until you release your key.

Ok then let me start by saying MP2 = articulation yep you got it you will get mf, nv, Alt D Alt u and more i am sure you understand the abbreviations = soft or loud or looped, short, long and so on.

This was really annoying to start with but I gave MP2 some time = a few days of living with it, not a few minutes to fly through it to give a quick review, if you only spend a few minutes with this software you dont qualify to give a review quick or long if you do you will more than likely give a wrong review or negative review.

MP2 demands you spend a good amount of time with it.

In the keys mapped out articulation you will get some times up to 20 articulations a few sustains, legatos, detaches, stacatos, and more.

In the instruments alone you will get lets say violins I think I counted over 30 different violin Detache now thats taking it a we bit to far you would think well I thought so at first but after spending time with MP2 I began to appreciate the many different articulations on the instruments remember if your producing in bits and parts and your searching for that sound just to fit a small or large piece you are more likely to find it, think of it as a dictionary of articulation.

remember this is all about manipulation and expression and emotion you can fake or fantasize, or dream up you will more likely get it from MP2 and you will be glad you own it.

The sound is ok let me say it so you understand the violins sound like strings, wood, and bow mix all at once.
very difficult to describe but as i read in a post I can only say intimate.

You say what is he talking about, well let me say VSL violins sound like really great violins and has a wow factor.

MP2 violins sound grainy, you can almost smell the wood, they sound dirty, gritty, but in a pleasing way.

plugins are great and do play a part to the unique sound MP2 can give, you will find your self using the plugins a lot, they are very pleasing.

Would I recommend it : well no, I like it because I spent time with it and I feel I can get what I need out of it, that could mean my expectations maybe are not high or it could mean this software is great.

Ok just dont get it now you should wait until the bugs are fixed and it gets more attention by the developers.

I dont think every ones got the patients like me, you may get pissed off real easy, a bit like throwing a deal away that at first it did not seem to good but later you found out it was worth a lot of money.

MP2 is now my go to orchestra and I think I am going to treasure it, it really needs attention and bug fixing but it does not stop me from using it and doing what I want with it.


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 22, 2015)

I am very sure that one can do nice things also with this library.


----------



## novaburst (Dec 22, 2015)

germancomponist said:


> I am very sure that one can do nice things also with this library.



Most certainly, but it may not appeal to some, and I feel that that you may need to change the way you do things, the MP2 has an in your face attitude a kind of like it or leave it,


----------



## germancomponist (Dec 22, 2015)

novaburst said:


> Most certainly, but it may not appeal to some, and I feel that that you may need to change the way you do things, the MP2 has an in your face attitude a kind of like it or leave it,


I know, because I know the intentions and beliefs of the library creator.


----------



## Michael K. Bain (Dec 22, 2015)

I want to thank everyone for their reviews! Merry Christmas!


----------



## AllanH (Dec 22, 2015)

I agree, the sampling is excellent. It's really remarkable how well the original MP1 (as included) sounds, especially in view of its age.


----------



## Johnny (Dec 22, 2015)

MP1 was the first sample library that I ever owned, I purchased MP1 when it first came out back in the day and man... If I am not mistaken? I think that MP1 was the first library to introduce orchestral multi patches too? Paving the way for the later Project Sam and many more... For people whom haven't had the opportunity to try MP1 or MP2 for that matter? You owe yourself the pleasure because MP1 was a ton of fun! There were gorgeous choir samples in MP1 that even today, I haven't been able find a choral library that can re-produce with the same quality of emotion! Yes everything was 16bit, no additional microphone positions, true legato etc... But MP1 really was just a whole different beast and I still respect them for what they achieved. (I mean, I later upgraded to EWSO over a decade ago and now HW Orchestra.) But man, I still can't think of a sample library that had so much expression packed into one simple and easy to use engine like MP1. It was great for quick inspiration and easy writing- beautifully expressive pianos, woodwinds, strings, perc, harps, choirs you name it! That being said, I definitely wouldn't hesitate to take MP2 for a quick burn!


----------



## AllanH (Dec 22, 2015)

That is almost "my story" as well. I had access to MP1 about 8 years ago (I think) but didn't really know what it was. When I purchased Sample Tank 3, I recognized the instruments immediately, and purchased MP1 just to get the samples (event though I knew MP1 didn't actually work in a 64 bit environment). Just yesterday, using the new MP2, I placed the MP1 solo Cello and Choir in one of my pieces. MP1 is special. I also think MP2 sampling is excellent and brings a different type of "raw" quality that I like (I called it "intimate" in the first summary).

I would still like to see IK/MP2 support the modern dynamics/CC1 and expression/CC11 as typically found in libraries today. I still love the sound, but incorporating MP2 now takes a different work flow from all other libraries I use. That may only be relevant to me, but I find that tedious.


----------



## fastlanephil (Jan 4, 2016)

I preorderd MP1 way back when. MP1 was recoded on stage with orchestral hall ambience and placement and using emotive playing for the samples. I would layer MP1 with GPO, which was recorded flat and dry then using CC1 and adding verb to GPO I could sort of get a poor man's version of VSL. MP1 came with a pretty decent choir for the time also. There was an emotive soprano patch that I loved to use. 

I read that the new MP2 samples were studio recorded but I wonder if they also have the emotive feel. 

The original complete Miroslav library was a jaw dropping 3095 British Pounds in 2000.


----------



## AllanH (Jan 4, 2016)

In my opinion the original Miroslav, when configured properly with reverb etc., is incredible with a very emotional playability. I have not been able to make MP2 perform the same way, but that may simply be me.

It's worth getting MP2, for no other reason that MP1 is included and updated for 64 bits. I'm sure I'll get to appreciate MP2 over time.

Edited: typo and duplication of info from prior post.


----------



## bigcat1969 (Jan 4, 2016)

Have there been many actual reviews yet? It doesn't seem like this is making many waves yet.


----------



## bill45 (Jan 5, 2016)

Is anyone else missing notes in the english horn ensemble patches.
I'm only getting 5 notes from F2-A2


----------



## bill45 (Jan 5, 2016)

Same problem in some low brass patches.


----------



## novaburst (Jan 5, 2016)

bigcat1969 said:


> Have there been many actual reviews yet? It doesn't seem like this is making many waves yet.



There has not been many if any just a few that really are not reviews at all. 

When Miroslav 1 came out there was not many around that could compete with its sound, and ability, 

To day 2015 and 16, MP2 has come in a sea of if not hundreds and possible thousands of librarys and many developers have already captured the hearts and minds of hundreds of thousands of hobbyist, bedroom wanna be (thats me) 
producers,musicians, and many more music practitioners.

For MP2 to capture any of the hearts and minds of library users it would have needed to end the world for most people to take notice and even then it would still have a hard time.

there are just to many great and I say again great top premium librarys out there and this is a great thing because it does make developers consider there price and keeps the price kind of fair.

You will only get the hard core MP1 users taking advantage of MP2 hoping that they will come up with an even better sound than MP1 plus 64bit is always inviting but 64bit has been around for a long time now

My view on this post @bigcat1969 is while I am impressed of some of the sounds in MP2 they have not given a big enough variety of new instruments and instead relied on merging MP1 + MP2 together now that is a great idea but sound has thankfully moved on and I fear it will not be the big thing in 2016 as MP1 was back then there are to many giants in the land.

And I fear it has not done enough to turn heads, it has a place in my heart and I can see and understand whats going on with this software.


----------



## novaburst (Jan 5, 2016)

bill45 said:


> Is anyone else missing notes in the english horn ensemble patches.
> I'm only getting 5 notes from F2-A2



There are a few glitches that need to be sorted out with this library you may find one or two more problems I have sent a few to support and from support it goes back to developers so fingers crossed


----------



## novaburst (Jan 5, 2016)

AllanH said:


> In my opinion the original Miroslav, when configured properly with reverb etc., is incredible with a very emotional playability. I have not been able to make MP2 perform the same way, but that may simply be me.
> 
> It's worth getting MP2, for no other reason that MP1 is included and updated for 64 bits. I'm sure I'll get to appreciate MP2 over time.
> 
> Edited: typo and duplication of info from prior post.



While I agree in part with what you say, but there is a sound superiority between MP2 and MP1.........MP2 is HD from the start, never the less with those effects at use some thing nice can be done with MP1


----------



## bigcat1969 (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks novaburst. That was a good answer.


----------



## ScarletJerry (Jan 5, 2016)

I picked up Miro 1 for $75 during a Black Friday sale two years ago. It's a great value at that price, and I recently loaded it into Sampletank 3 so it could run in 64 bit. I love the solo woodwinds, even without true legato. They are incredibly expressive. The brass ensembles are pretty good, and the harp harpsichord, and percussion are very realistic. Throw in the choir and the orchestra tuneup and background noises, and it's a great value. Miro 2 may also be a good package, but the price will scare away a lot of hobbyists (like me) that were drawn to Miro 1.

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## bigcat1969 (Jan 6, 2016)

There has been a bit of discussion over on KVR about it with complaints about the odd legato predominating. There might be more vibrato than is usual in the sustain type samples, though that might be a positive or negative depending on desired use. Playability seems to be a possible issue, though probably familiarity with ST3 helps. 
One fellow who didn't like it, said he has a buddy who very much likes it. I did see one brief review at a more amateur type site (aka not a big review site) that gave it 4 stars out of five and quite liked it. It was suggested to me in a private conversation that it is probably good for a performer trying to get an instant string section during live shows. This makes sense since it is a rompler and roughly half the size is taken up by strings.


----------



## bill45 (Jan 6, 2016)

Also the trumpet ensemble sustain ff patch doesn't sound below e3.
All other trumpet ensemble patches sound below E3.


----------



## novaburst (Jan 8, 2016)

There have been issues with notes missing, and not enough range on some instruments, 

I guess the update will address this, hopefully soon,


----------



## bigcat1969 (Jan 10, 2016)

An interesting review I think, though I'm biased as I've worked on an instrument with the reviewer and had many email type conversations with him.
http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2016/01/09/miroslav-philharmonik-2-review/


----------



## novaburst (Jan 11, 2016)

A good honest review very complete and fair...........


----------



## sazema (Feb 3, 2017)

Honestly I would avoid this. You will get nice violins, but for eg. trumpets or oboes sounds like from cheap synth 
For price of 500EUR and that size of 60Gb you can find better Kontakt library to work with.
ST engine is clunky and can't be compared to Kontakt.


----------



## ctsai89 (Feb 3, 2017)

sazema said:


> Honestly I would avoid this. You will get nice violins, but for eg. trumpets or oboes sounds like from cheap synth
> For price of 500EUR and that size of 60Gb you can find better Kontakt library to work with.
> ST engine is clunky and can't be compared to Kontakt.



for 500EUR u talking about VSL special edition? i think the string in that is more synthy than miroslav. Might as well go even cheaper for GPO5. It's actually not that bad at all.


----------



## sazema (Feb 3, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> for 500EUR u talking about VSL special edition? i think the string in that is more synthy than miroslav. Might as well go even cheaper for GPO5. It's actually not that bad at all.


No, what I heard violins are good now, but other sections sound synthy.
I don't agree that P2 can beat even old VLS giga edition!
Main problem with this all-round orchestral libraries is that at the end you will get 30-40% of usefull stuff and rest is rubbish. Same thing with GPO5. Garittan improved strings section but winds are still blahhh. And what you have at the end? You're starting to think - oh... I must buy something different for winds. Of course, this is just an example.
I think also, buying this you will never be satisfied. I mean, if you need orchestral elements for some pop, metal, etc... music it's ok, but when you try to make something more symphonic/classical you will always have problem at the end, my strings sounds so un-natural, my winds are terrible etc...
Look, this is from my perspective, I think you can find better, but everyone has it's own taste. But you know what, it's very nice to have a choice  What if we have only 2 libraries...


----------



## d.healey (Feb 3, 2017)

Does it have CC controllable dynamics or is it still velocity only?


----------



## AllanH (Feb 3, 2017)

d.healey said:


> Does it have CC controllable dynamics or is it still velocity only?



"CC1 dynamics" is velocity-encoded everywhere, from my experience. There are different articulations for the different dynamics such as p, mf, f. There are typically three velocity-sensitive levels of dynamics,

However, the instrument configurations allows much configuration, and I've e.g. assigned CC11 to what's closest to expression and automated the button. But CC1, the way it's done today, is not supported. It's a pity, as quite a few of the instruments in MP2 are otherwise excellent. So, I've simply worked around it as I really like the sound.


----------



## AllanH (Feb 3, 2017)

Many of the smaller inconsistencies were addressed in a major update in September of 2016.


----------



## Quasar (Feb 3, 2017)

ScarletJerry said:


> I picked up Miro 1 for $75 during a Black Friday sale two years ago. It's a great value at that price, and I recently loaded it into Sampletank 3 so it could run in 64 bit. I love the solo woodwinds, even without true legato. They are incredibly expressive. The brass ensembles are pretty good, and the harp harpsichord, and percussion are very realistic. Throw in the choir and the orchestra tuneup and background noises, and it's a great value. Miro 2 may also be a good package, but the price will scare away a lot of hobbyists (like me) that were drawn to Miro 1.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry



This is what I did. Got Miro 1 dirt cheap, and later ST3 on massive sale as well for the 64b capability. I agree that it is a good value if you can get it inexpensively (the choirs especially have a LOT of good stuff but you have to dig), although SampleTank 3 is much more unwieldy (and often really slow to load) for me than Kontakt. And I'm one of the hobbyists scared away by the upgrade price to v2.


----------



## bigcat1969 (Feb 3, 2017)

Eventually IKM tends to have massive sales, so a few years down the road if it hits $100 its probably worth thinking about. I wonder if the plan to some extent is to overprice and sell at discounts such as upgrade or pre-order and then eventually black Friday sales. 80% off 500 looks better than 50% off 200. 
As pointed out the Orchestral market has so many options and often reasonably cheap options compared to when Miro 1 came out. Also I'm guessing that interfaces have made ease of use less of a selling point which I suspect it was for Miro 1. Also wasn't the Miroslav name somewhat revered in the early 2000s? Now there are so many great sample companies it can be tough to stand out.


----------



## fastlanephil (Feb 3, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> Also wasn't the Miroslav name somewhat revered in the early 2000s? Now there are so many great sample companies it can be tough to stand out.


Released in 1993, Miro was the first high-quality CD orchestral sample library. There use to be a SOS review of it’s debut online which showed the original price which was in the lower thousands. I believe it worked with Tascam’s Gigasampler which was an expensive software/hardware host solution. Not exactly a hobbyist's product.


----------



## bigcat1969 (Feb 3, 2017)

Thanks I was off by a good decade there. 

If it hasn't already been mentioned, here is a thread that tracks the history of orchestral sampling in a timeline.
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/how-did-orchestral-sampling-start-out.54771/

Looking at it made me realize how many 'classic' libraries I have laying around. Miroslav Vituos through IKM with Miro 1 and ST3, the Peter Siedlaczek collection for Kontakt, Kirk Hunter Diamond and a cut version of earlier VSL in the KFL. I should do some historical playing about.


----------



## robgb (Feb 3, 2017)

AllanH said:


> "CC1 dynamics" is velocity-encoded everywhere, from my experience. There are different articulations for the different dynamics such as p, mf, f. There are typically three velocity-sensitive levels of dynamics,
> 
> However, the instrument configurations allows much configuration, and I've e.g. assigned CC11 to what's closest to expression and automated the button. But CC1, the way it's done today, is not supported. It's a pity, as quite a few of the instruments in MP2 are otherwise excellent. So, I've simply worked around it as I really like the sound.


I was looking at this library at one time. Glad I didn't buy it. If you don't have CC1 velocity in an orchestral library, you're pointless. And at $500, you're highway robbery.


----------



## Syneast (Feb 4, 2017)

robgb said:


> I was looking at this library at one time. Glad I didn't buy it. If you don't have CC1 velocity in an orchestral library, you're pointless. And at $500, you're highway robbery.


Yeah, I will never understand how people can work with libraries without CC1 dynamics. Are the samples so amazing that you can get a convincing result with only volume swells, or what? If it was the only option available, I'd understand, but there are so many other great libraries with CC1 dynamics these days.


----------



## robgb (Feb 4, 2017)

Syneast said:


> Yeah, I will never understand how people can work with libraries without CC1 dynamics. Are the samples so amazing that you can get a convincing result with only volume swells, or what? If it was the only option available, I'd understand, but there are so many other great libraries with CC1 dynamics these days.


Not only that, if you know even a little bit about Kontakt, you can add CC1 dynamics to your older Kontakt libraries. There are various ways to do this. So maybe getting a rompler orchestra isn't a good idea anyway.


----------



## Syneast (Feb 4, 2017)

robgb said:


> Not only that, if you know even a little bit about Kontakt, you can add CC1 dynamics to your older Kontakt libraries. There are various ways to do this. So maybe getting a rompler orchestra isn't a good idea anyway.


Exactly. Miroslav Philharmonik for Kontakt would have been a whole different story. The library seems quite extensive and the samples sound really good. Could have been a perfect solution for entry level or laptop use. Shame.


----------



## robgb (Feb 4, 2017)

Syneast said:


> Exactly. Miroslav Philharmonik for Kontakt would have been a whole different story. The library seems quite extensive and the samples sound really good. Could have been a perfect solution for entry level or laptop use. Shame.


If someone really loves the library and wants kontakt instruments instead, there's a tool out there (the name of which I've forgotten... Samplit?) that will play each individual note of a vsti at various velocities and turn it into a Kontakt instrument. I don't know the legalities of doing this, however. And Samplit (?) isn't cheap.


----------



## AllanH (Feb 4, 2017)

robgb said:


> If someone really loves the library and wants kontakt instruments instead, there's a tool out there (the name of which I've forgotten... Samplit?) that will play each individual note of a vsti at various velocities and turn it into a Kontakt instrument. I don't know the legalities of doing this, however. And Samplit (?) isn't cheap.



Samplit is a neat looking tool. Thank you for the reference. Could be very helpful in creating my own instruments (which I've been thinking about).


----------



## robgb (Feb 4, 2017)

AllanH said:


> Samplit is a neat looking tool. Thank you for the reference. Could be very helpful in creating my own instruments (which I've been thinking about).


I'm thinking about getting it myself. I tried the demo and it worked like a charm.


----------



## bigcat1969 (Feb 4, 2017)

A thread about ways to Konvert instruments, if it helps any...
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/konverting-old-vstis.58482/


----------

