# MIDI Control Surface - MCU Pro, Behringer X-Touch, BCF2000, ect.



## Sean Beeson

I am in the market for a MIDI control surface, preferably one that has automated faders that can be assigned to any MIDI CC. In Cubase I can then select and MIDI track that I have either already recorded to, or will record to, and the faders will adjust to the CC data already written.

Is there any control surface out there currently that can do that? It seems like the BCF2000 can, as well as the X-Touch maybe. But the Mackie? Thanks!


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## Jaap

I have the BCF2000 and works like a charm to be honest. Easy to assign to midi cc and besides that you can also run it in Mackie Mode if you want to control your mixer. I am running it together with the BCR2000 (which I use mainly for cc control). I am also working with Cubase and I have not faced any problems with it. The only thing that annoys me a little is the sound of the automated faders, but I got used to that  Been a while since I saw you here Sean!


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## Sean Beeson

Jaap said:


> I have the BCF2000 and works like a charm to be honest. Easy to assign to midi cc and besides that you can also run it in Mackie Mode if you want to control your mixer. I am running it together with the BCR2000 (which I use mainly for cc control). I am also working with Cubase and no I have faced no problems with it. The only thing that annoys me a little is the sound of the automated faders, but I got used to that  Been a while since I saw you here Sean!




Thanks Jaap! Does the noise get pretty crazy with all of them flying? I am here lurking in the shadows :D


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## Jaap

Sean Beeson said:


> Thanks Jaap! Does the noise get pretty crazy with all of them flying? I am here lurking in the shadows :D



Yeah to be honest. In the beginning the faders when they all moved where a bit of a let down for me, but in the end the price, the options etc made me keep it and I have not regretted it and got used to it. I still get a heartattack though everytime I close and open a new project and all the faders hush to zero and go up again to the last saved setting


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## zolhof

For $299 it's hard to beat the BFC2000. I used to own one and like Jaap said, worked like charm. At normal levels the noise wasn't a problem, and tbh it never bothered me checking mixes quietly. Maybe I got lucky, dunno.

Check the Icon Qcon Pro too, it's more expensive but a really fine upgrade imho. Played with one for a while in a friend's studio and loved it.


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## Baron Greuner

Sean I use the MCU PRO with Logic. It's alright and works.


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## brett

Can you turn off the fader movement if need be?


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## Simon Ravn

Personally I would never use a motorized fader controller for MIDI CC. You will hear faders moving and jumping all over the place constantly during your workflow. It certainly isn't for me. I'd rather have the small inconvenience of having to fix some broken CC transitions when merging more CC recordings.


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## aorsongmachine

Also planning to buy the *Behringer X-Touch* or the *Qcon icon Pro G2. *I'm using Cubase as my DAW. Looking forward to hear more experiences and read more reviews.


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## aorsongmachine

Here are some video clips about the new X-touch:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkfJvKuL08vEqdTwKbanbOfb6zagouB65


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## Gerhard Westphalen

From your original post it sounds like you're looking for a touch sensitive controller (" that I have either already recorded to, or will record to, and the faders will adjust to the CC data already written"). Without touch sensitive faders you basically can't overwrite the automation since it doesn't know if you're holding the fader to keep it from moving or if you've let go and it should stop writing and go back to reading the automation.

Now there are 2 ways to handle CC in Cubase. One is as automation and the second is as midi data in the midi regions. As automation data, you can have touch sensitivity and motorized faders but it really limits your CC editing capabilities. I strongly recommend not going this route. If you write it in the midi regions you don't get touch sensitivity and it does not send out the midi for the motorized faders to follow but it does give you all of the editing capabilities. This means that getting a control surface with touch sensitivity (like the Mackie or X-touch) or motorized faders doesn't make a difference. It would be nice to have touch sensitivity implemented so that you don't have to delete the CC data before making another pass.

I use the BCF2000 and it's great but since I'm writing to the midi regions, the faders don't follow along. I don't really care about that since it doesn't make a difference without touch sensitivity. So basically what I'm trying to say is that getting something more expensive with touch sensitivity or motorized faders is useless for this case unless you prefer how the faders fell on a particular surface. You could also get a Presonus Faderport to have a touch sensitive motorized fader for mixing. That plus a BCF2000 gives you the best of both worlds for <$500.


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## chimuelo

I also have a BCF 2000.
So many custom apps its hard to think about using another surface.
Touch sensitive faders are all it needs to be awesome.
Bought mine for 100 bucks 8 years ago.
DJTech has some cool fader caps too.


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## Vik

Did any of you try this one?
http://www.nektartech.com/c.1289520/Downloads/Panorama_Guides/Using_Panorama_with_Logic_User_Guide.pdf


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## Sean Beeson

That b


Gerhard Westphalen said:


> From your original post it sounds like you're looking for a touch sensitive controller (" that I have either already recorded to, or will record to, and the faders will adjust to the CC data already written"). Without touch sensitive faders you basically can't overwrite the automation since it doesn't know if you're holding the fader to keep it from moving or if you've let go and it should stop writing and go back to reading the automation.
> 
> Now there are 2 ways to handle CC in Cubase. One is as automation and the second is as midi data in the midi regions. As automation data, you can have touch sensitivity and motorized faders but it really limits your CC editing capabilities. I strongly recommend not going this route. If you write it in the midi regions you don't get touch sensitivity and it does not send out the midi for the motorized faders to follow but it does give you all of the editing capabilities. This means that getting a control surface with touch sensitivity (like the Mackie or X-touch) or motorized faders doesn't make a difference. It would be nice to have touch sensitivity implemented so that you don't have to delete the CC data before making another pass.
> 
> I use the BCF2000 and it's great but since I'm writing to the midi regions, the faders don't follow along. I don't really care about that since it doesn't make a difference without touch sensitivity. So basically what I'm trying to say is that getting something more expensive with touch sensitivity or motorized faders is useless for this case unless you prefer how the faders fell on a particular surface. You could also get a Presonus Faderport to have a touch sensitive motorized fader for mixing. That plus a BCF2000 gives you the best of both worlds for <$500.



That basically answers my question. The faders do not follow the CC Data. Thanks for all of the replies!


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## marclawsonmusic

Sean Beeson said:


> That basically answers my question. The faders do not follow the CC Data. Thanks for all of the replies!



Hi Sean, did you buy the BCF2000? If so, I'd love to hear how it is working for you. Cheers.


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## Sean Beeson

marclawsonmusic said:


> Hi Sean, did you buy the BCF2000? If so, I'd love to hear how it is working for you. Cheers.


I ended up buying the X Touch Compact by Behringer.

It was a really nice, and well made/solid device. It couldn't however quite do what I wanted to make it do. I think with a lot of finagling it could somewhat work, as Gerhard had suggested with MID Automation vs. MIDI CC writing, but as Simon Ravn said, it got pretty noisy. Maybe the BCF2000 is better in that regards.

One fader running wasn't terrible. All 8 of them, especially when doing modwheel jumps reminded me of an old dot matrix printer. I wouldn't say that wasn't a deal breaker honestly. I ended up needing to purchase a new controller (my small Impact gave out) and thus got a Novation SL MKii. It doesn't have automated faders, but works great anyway.

For mixing, I wish I did have a control surface with automation, but it seems like I am doing 90% of the mixing/balance in MIDI CC's these days


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## marclawsonmusic

Sean Beeson said:


> I ended up buying the X Touch Compact by Behringer.
> 
> It was a really nice, and well made/solid device. It couldn't however quite do what I wanted to make it do. I think with a lot of finagling it could somewhat work, as Gerhard had suggested with MID Automation vs. MIDI CC writing, but as Simon Ravn said, it got pretty noisy. Maybe the BCF2000 is better in that regards.
> 
> One fader running wasn't terrible. All 8 of them, especially when doing modwheel jumps reminded me of an old dot matrix printer. I wouldn't say that wasn't a deal breaker honestly. I ended up needing to purchase a new controller (my small Impact gave out) and thus got a Novation SL MKii. It doesn't have automated faders, but works great anyway.
> 
> For mixing, I wish I did have a control surface with automation, but it seems like I am doing 90% of the mixing/balance in MIDI CC's these days



Thanks, Sean! Very helpful.


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## brett

I bought a bcf2000 recently and can't seem to get the learn function to work with Cubase. Can anyone assist? (Happy to break of into sep thread if this is considered off topic)


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## chimuelo

Its a really old controller.
I am sure there are special apps. made for that but all of mine are for Modular synthesis and mixing.
I would just make sure to use 14bit Absolute on all encoders faders and buttons and make your own templates.
32 presets gives you lots of control and I still maintain this is one of the very best MIDI Control surfaces ever made.
Make sure to use Mountain Utilities app. and go to the Reaper forum and look up Klinkes awesome app.
There has to be a Cubase app. But its not really needed since you can have each of your instruments a preset then save 10-12 for your DAW.
Reaper guys are in hog heaven with this awesome surface.
I much prefer maturity over newer less supported blinky light plastic thing a mah jigs....


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## marclawsonmusic

Does anyone know if you can turn off the motorized 'chase' feature on the BCF2000? I checked the manual but wasn't 100% certain.

It looks like a great unit, but I don't want the 'dot matrix printer syndrome' that Sean mentioned.

Thanks,
Marc


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## Gerhard Westphalen

marclawsonmusic said:


> Does anyone know if you can turn off the motorized 'chase' feature on the BCF2000? I checked the manual but wasn't 100% certain.
> 
> It looks like a great unit, but I don't want the 'dot matrix printer syndrome' that Sean mentioned.
> 
> Thanks,
> Marc



What are you using it as? If it's in the Mackie emulation then I don't think so. If you're in Cubase and running it as a generic remote you can turn it off from the generic remote editing page (I think the setting is under "flags"?). If it's just for CC then it shouldn't be sending anything out to it.


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## marclawsonmusic

Good question, Gerhard. I just want to use it for CC automation, not mixing. I will be using it with Logic.

Thanks,
Marc


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## milesito

Can we assign w cc channel number to the faders? Also does anyone think the x touch is better or at least the same as the bcf?


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## geoffreyvernon

For the price and the options you have the BCF2000 is hard to beat honestly. I use one and have used one for a while now and it's never let me down. The usability, and control I have with it is amazing. The faders are a little loud but I looked past that right away because of what I was able to do with it for the price. I will however be upgrading to the X-Touch very soon. So I'd say go with one of those and you'll be very happy!


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## chimuelo

You can disable the motorized function. I did that years ago.
Reminded me of the Yamaha DMP7 I used as a stage mixer years ago, had the first automated faders.
Big pain in the main as I often had to do manual over rides, which double paged as FX sends.
But yes you can disable them.
I don't like the USB MIDI but used hardware MIDI and the BCF 2000 acts like a kick ass MIDI Filter/Patch Bay, pluds adds CC# automation.

Really great piece of kit.
I have mine around as a spare these days but I know I can always count on it.


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## TintoL

I don't know if this helps.
But, the Nektar panorama line and impact line have relative "soft faders". When you move a fader, the value will not be changed in the daw until both values are equal. Thus you get no jumpiness in your values, plus, you get no distracting noises of faders moving all the time, plus is way cheaper.


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## Smikes77

Baron Greuner said:


> Sean I use the MCU PRO with Logic. It's alright and works.



Can you assign the faders to control midi cc? If so, do the faders follow the midi cc info, and as someone has commented... is it distracting?


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## milesito

Just got the bcf2000 to replace my korg nano kontrol. I wanted something slightly more high end than the behringer but didn't find anything as this is still a gap in the market I feel. It works great and I like the 100mm faders as I can control the cc data with much more granularity. Price also was appealing and it does the trick. Motors are a bit loud but I don't use the automated faders often.


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## arnau

TintoL said:


> When you move a fader, the value will not be changed in the daw until both values are equa


Hi, do you know if is there a way in Cubase to achieve this with any MIDI controller. I would love to have Cubase change the values when I move a fader ONLY when I reach the data value with my fader.
Cheers!


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## muk

There is a new software called 'DFader' that is designed for hardware control of your DAW. I don't know if lets you use motorized fader for midi cc, but there's a demo so you can try that:

http://www.deviltechnologies.com/index.php/dfader

And there's a new daw controller as well:

https://www.asparion.de/en/electronics/d400.html

No scribble strips, and not on the cheap side. Other than that it looks interesting.


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## AllanH

The asparion device looks interesting and pretty solid. Can't find it in the US, however. 
I'm wondering if a tablet with software is the better choice, or maybe something similar to a roli. I would like the ability to fade in 2D (x & y) or 3d (x, y and pressure). What that could do to automation, especially for solo instruments, would be fantastic. Haven't researched that yet.


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## Baron Greuner

Smikes77 said:


> Can you assign the faders to control midi cc? If so, do the faders follow the midi cc info, and as someone has commented... is it distracting?



Do not think you can do that.


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## Smikes77

Baron Greuner said:


> Do not think you can do that.



Thanks, I found this out through another source too. Shame, I like the look of it.


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## Smikes77

muk said:


> There is a new software called 'DFader' that is designed for hardware control of your DAW. I don't know if lets you use motorized fader for midi cc, but there's a demo so you can try that:
> 
> http://www.deviltechnologies.com/index.php/dfader
> 
> And there's a new daw controller as well:
> 
> https://www.asparion.de/en/electronics/d400.html
> 
> No scribble strips, and not on the cheap side. Other than that it looks interesting.



Looks good, what about this?

http://sxpro.co.uk/icon-qcon-pro-x?gclid=CM_0ibvB0MwCFeYK0wodC9YLvQ


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## TintoL

arnau said:


> Hi, do you know if is there a way in Cubase to achieve this with any MIDI controller. I would love to have Cubase change the values when I move a fader ONLY when I reach the data value with my fader.
> Cheers!


Sorry that I missed your question. That feature is not a cubase thing. Is a controller feature, and to be more specific is a software thing. You have to get a controller that supports that. The nektar line supports this. I am surprised this has not been implemented in seuquencing software.


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## Flux

I have been looking at the BCF2000 purely for controlling midi cc automation in Logic. Could someone clarify on the noise issue if you were only using it to control midi cc data? Since my needs for the control surface are minimal, is there another controller either cheaper or similar in price which you guys would recommend?


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## brett

I turn off the automation and just do it manually. No noise!


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## synthpunk

Icon Platform M looks interesting.
http://iconproaudio.com/product/platform-m/
The price point is $400 u.s. But for another $150 you could get a X Touch ? I recently noticed that Jeff Rona is using one.


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## chimuelo

Flux said:


> I have been looking at the BCF2000 purely for controlling midi cc automation in Logic. Could someone clarify on the noise issue if you were only using it to control midi cc data? Since my needs for the control surface are minimal, is there another controller either cheaper or similar in price which you guys would recommend?



I used BCF2000 for years.
Excellent controller plus extra MIDI Ports and additional Continuos Controller jack for expression.
I retired mine for an advanced Physis K4.

But added the MIDI Twister, basically a DJs tool.
Really great controller with excellent programmer app.
Usually anything that works well live is even better when editting programming and recording.


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

Sean Beeson said:


> I ended up buying the X Touch Compact by Behringer.
> 
> It was a really nice, and well made/solid device. It couldn't however quite do what I wanted to make it do. I think with a lot of finagling it could somewhat work, as Gerhard had suggested with MID Automation vs. MIDI CC writing, but as Simon Ravn said, it got pretty noisy. Maybe the BCF2000 is better in that regards.
> 
> One fader running wasn't terrible. All 8 of them, especially when doing modwheel jumps reminded me of an old dot matrix printer. I wouldn't say that wasn't a deal breaker honestly. I ended up needing to purchase a new controller (my small Impact gave out) and thus got a Novation SL MKii. It doesn't have automated faders, but works great anyway.
> 
> For mixing, I wish I did have a control surface with automation, but it seems like I am doing 90% of the mixing/balance in MIDI CC's these days



Hi Sean, wanted to know if you can disable fader movement in xtouch compact in midi cc mode??


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## synthpunk

Hi, I'm not Sean, but seeing your replying to a thread over a year old I thought I would chime in by posting the manual for reference. Hope that helps.
https://media.music-group.com/media/PLM/data/docs/P0B3L/BEHRINGER_X-TOUCH%20COMPACT%20P0B3L_Product%20Information%20Document.pdf


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

synthpunk said:


> Hi, I'm not Sean, but seeing your replying to a thread over a year old I thought I would chime in by posting the manual for reference. Hope that helps.
> https://media.music-group.com/media/PLM/data/docs/P0B3L/BEHRINGER_X-TOUCH%20COMPACT%20P0B3L_Product%20Information%20Document.pdf (https://media.music-group.com/media/PLM/data/docs/P0B3L/BEHRINGER_X-TOUCH COMPACT P0B3L_Product Information Document.pdf)


Oh shoot, I might have sent it to you by mistake, but thanks for the info...


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## DynamicK

Gordon_hiphoplp said:


> Hi Sean, wanted to know if you can disable fader movement in xtouch compact in midi cc mode??


I've got a* XTC.* The faders aren't motorised in *Midi Mode A&B* by default. It can be done easily if you have Studio One by *Control Link* if that's what you are after.


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

DynamicK said:


> I've got a* XTC.* The faders aren't motorised in *Midi Mode A&B* by default. It can be done easily if you have Studio One by *Control Link* if that's what you are after.


That's Great, because I don't want Fader Movement during MIDI CC as it is less intuitive for me, and wanted to make sure if I am getting right controller, anyways thanks for the info Mate...


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

DynamicK said:


> I've got a* XTC.* The faders aren't motorised in *Midi Mode A&B* by default. It can be done easily if you have Studio One by *Control Link* if that's what you are after.


Also wanted to know your experience with it, I mean would you recommend xtouch compact for midi cc automation over bcf 2000 or faderctrl(that is custom built controller sold here on this forum) pls suggest, thanks!!!


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## whinecellar

Hey guys, for what it’s worth, I grabbed an X-Touch Compact and I absolutely LOVE it. Getting Midas on board for manufacturing was the best move they ever made. This thing feels like a real quality piece of hardware – the faders are incredibly smooth and with 100mm range, there’s plenty a resolution to be truly expressive with the latest crop of VIs - no more tiny cheesy plastic faders for me. And with 2 layers, each fader, button, and knob can essentially do two different things. In CC mode the fader motors are off, which is perfect; with a quick reboot into MC mode, I can use it for touch-sensitive automation writes with full MCU support.

IMO, other than its chunky size and having to power off to reboot, this is the perfect hardware controller for what we do!


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## synthpunk

I would also add the vaporware Mac editor that never was released as a negative, but there are ways around this using your daw.



whinecellar said:


> Hey guys, for what it’s worth, I grabbed an X-Touch Compact and I absolutely LOVE it. Getting Midas on board for manufacturing was the best move they ever made. This thing feels like a real quality piece of hardware – the faders are incredibly smooth and with 100mm range, there’s plenty a resolution to be truly expressive with the latest crop of VIs - no more tiny cheesy plastic faders for me. And with 2 layers, each fader, button, and knob can essentially do two different things. In CC mode the fader motors are off, which is perfect; with a quick reboot into MC mode, I can use it for touch-sensitive automation writes with full MCU support.
> 
> IMO, other than its chunky size and having to power off to reboot, this is the perfect hardware controller for what we do!


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

whinecellar said:


> Hey guys, for what it’s worth, I grabbed an X-Touch Compact and I absolutely LOVE it. Getting Midas on board for manufacturing was the best move they ever made. This thing feels like a real quality piece of hardware – the faders are incredibly smooth and with 100mm range, there’s plenty a resolution to be truly expressive with the latest crop of VIs - no more tiny cheesy plastic faders for me. And with 2 layers, each fader, button, and knob can essentially do two different things. In CC mode the fader motors are off, which is perfect; with a quick reboot into MC mode, I can use it for touch-sensitive automation writes with full MCU support.
> 
> IMO, other than its chunky size and having to power off to reboot, this is the perfect hardware controller for what we do!


Thanks for taking time and sharing your experience...


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## whinecellar

Gordon_hiphoplp said:


> Thanks for taking time and sharing your experience...



Sure thing. Yeah, I forgot to mention the no Mac editor issue - big bummer. I use my PC slave to program it which is incredibly easy, but an actual Mac app would be great!


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## Josh Richman

whinecellar said:


> Sure thing. Yeah, I forgot to mention the no Mac editor issue - big bummer. I use my PC slave to program it which is incredibly easy, but an actual Mac app would be great!



Oh thats good info. So you actual reprogram the device itself and it retains the changes when you plug it back into the Mac?

What settings are you actually changing out of curiosity?


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## DynamicK

X-Touch Compact is the update to the BCF 2000 AFAIK. As mentioned, it is a little heavy, but that to me says quality. I did try out a* Platfom M*, and this is streets ahead. I programmed *Layer A* to be mostly CC sending on all faders and encoders. *Layer B* is a sort of Mackie hack, so I don't have to switch the power off to go into MCU mode. Reasonably easy to achieve:- I used* MidiOX* to see what was being sent in MCU Mode, and then programmed Layer B similarly. Really pleased with it and I suggest you buy from a retailer that offers the 30 day no quibble return, as a lot of online retailers in the UK now offer.


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## whinecellar

Josh Richman said:


> Oh thats good info. So you actual reprogram the device itself and it retains the changes when you plug it back into the Mac?
> 
> What settings are you actually changing out of curiosity?



Yes, when you program it with the PC editor, it saves all assignments internally so you can then use it on your Mac via USB or old-school MIDI. Faders (and exp pedal input) cover all my CC needs as well as advanced controllers for Spitfire & other libs (vibrato, tightness, release, mic mixer, etc.). Buttons are all mapped to Logic functions...


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## whinecellar

DynamicK said:


> *Layer B* is a sort of Mackie hack, so I don't have to switch the power off to go into MCU mode. Reasonably easy to achieve:- I used* MidiOX* to see what was being sent in MCU Mode, and then programmed Layer B similarly



Wow - great idea! So do the faders follow automation then as they would in native MC mode? Touch-sensitive automation works as expected? I was thinking it would be awesome to keep all my custom assignments for CCs and then set up just the master fader to do automation writes on the selected channel. Wonder if that’s possible...


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## fiestared

By the way, is there any advantage to get the x Touch instead of the x Touch compact ? As far as i can see the price is 117€ more for the biggest model. What are your thought, do you use it ? Thanks for your time.


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## whinecellar

fiestared said:


> By the way, is there any advantage to get the x Touch instead of the x Touch compact ? As far as i can see the price is 117€ more for the biggest model. What are your thought, do you use it ? Thanks for your time.



There’s actually a huge downside to the X-Touch - only the Compact version can be programmed to send custom CC mappings! Baffles me - I would have liked the jog/shuttle wheel and larger master section, track name displays, etc., but my primary need was for a high quality CC controller...


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## whinecellar

I’m actually considering getting the full X-touch for MC mode/mixing, and leaving the compact for CC-only duties. Best of both, and they’re designed to sit next to each other. I’m just running out of room in my workstation!


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## fiestared

whinecellar said:


> I’m actually considering getting the full X-touch for MC mode/mixing, and leaving the compact for CC-only duties. Best of both, and they’re designed to sit next to each other. I’m just running out of room in my workstation!


Thanks whinecellar, same prob for me, the room...


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## Josh Richman

whinecellar said:


> Yes, when you program it with the PC editor, it saves all assignments internally so you can then use it on your Mac via USB or old-school MIDI. Faders (and exp pedal input) cover all my CC needs as well as advanced controllers for Spitfire & other libs (vibrato, tightness, release, mic mixer, etc.). Buttons are all mapped to Logic functions...



So what’s your layout for the assignments? I looking to plan how I should set mine up. I use a lot Spitfire too. How are ppl usually assigning their sliders? (Which order). And what’s the stock assignments for midi CC on the X-Touch compact. Will it work/send midi CC on Mac without setup on a pc?


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## DynamicK

whinecellar said:


> Wow - great idea! So do the faders follow automation then as they would in native MC mode? Touch-sensitive automation works as expected? I was thinking it would be awesome to keep all my custom assignments for CCs and then set up just the master fader to do automation writes on the selected channel. Wonder if that’s possible...


For faders all you have to program is a Pitchbend on Channel 1 for Fader 1, etc. Channel 9 for the Master Fader. Other Encoders and switches would be dependent on your DAW. You would need to get the MCU implementation for your DAW.


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

whinecellar said:


> Hey guys, for what it’s worth, I grabbed an X-Touch Compact and I absolutely LOVE it. Getting Midas on board for manufacturing was the best move they ever made. This thing feels like a real quality piece of hardware – the faders are incredibly smooth and with 100mm range, there’s plenty a resolution to be truly expressive with the latest crop of VIs - no more tiny cheesy plastic faders for me. And with 2 layers, each fader, button, and knob can essentially do two different things. In CC mode the fader motors are off, which is perfect; with a quick reboot into MC mode, I can use it for touch-sensitive automation writes with full MCU support.
> 
> IMO, other than its chunky size and having to power off to reboot, this is the perfect hardware controller for what we do!


Hi, I own Behringer xtouch compact now, I tried using it as a generic remote controller for midi cc and it works great with studio one, but my issue is that whenever I take my fingers off of the faders after recording cc values the faders then move back to zero, wanted to ask if there is any way to turn the fader movement off completely, though faders don't follow the cc values during playback but whenever i write cc values and take my fingers off, they come back to zero which is bit annoying. thanks for your time ......


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## HeliaVox

I have an XTouch. Love it. I was thinking of getting the smaller version, but there was no Mac editor. So I emailed them and they told me there was a beta version to DL. I never bought the smaller unit, but just wanted to let Mac users know there is at least something out there.


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## DynamicK

Gordon_hiphoplp said:


> Hi, I own Behringer xtouch compact now, I tried using it as a generic remote controller for midi cc and it works great with studio one, but my issue is that whenever I take my fingers off of the faders after recording cc values the faders then move back to zero,


Possibly related to a setting in S1. Is it sending Midi Out to your XTC. My XTC doesn't do that in Cubase when I'm using Midi Mode. Fader just sits where I leave it.


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## n9n9n9

if you don’t send the bcf midi but do receive midi it operates as a non flying fader box. your daw would need to be able to do this or you would have to use midi cables and only run a midi out.


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

ok folks, I checked everything, but still couldn't find any solution, I have connected x touch via midi cables as well and I have been using same settings as you guys discussed above, I am attaching a screen shot of my s1 settings also a video clip showing my issue thanks


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

Here is the link for the video showing the problem, again i am using it as midi remote for writing midi cc data...



Thanks for you support guys...


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## DynamicK

Gordon_hiphoplp said:


> Here is the link for the video showing the problem, again i am using it as midi remote for writing midi cc data...


Are you sure that the XTC is in *Midi Mode*? From your video, it looks like it's in *MCU Mode*. Motors will be disabled when in Midi Mode.

_To switch between standard operating mode and MC (Mackie Control) mode, press and hold down the MC 
button in the bottom left corner,(CH 1) and then turn on the unit’s power switch. Keep holding down the MC 
button until the MC MODE LED lights continuously to show that the unit is in MC mode._

Repeat that process to put it in Midi Mode. The *MC LED* should be *OFF* in the status panel above the master fader. I'm only using the USB connector.


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

DynamicK said:


> Are you sure that the XTC is in *Midi Mode*? From your video, it looks like it's in *MCU Mode*. Motors will be disabled when in Midi Mode.
> 
> _To switch between standard operating mode and MC (Mackie Control) mode, press and hold down the MC
> button in the bottom left corner,(CH 1) and then turn on the unit’s power switch. Keep holding down the MC
> button until the MC MODE LED lights continuously to show that the unit is in MC mode._
> 
> Repeat that process to put it in Midi Mode. The *MC LED* should be *OFF* in the status panel above the master fader. I'm only using the USB connector.


Yeah its in usb mode, no mackie mode light is blinking as I have disabled mackie mode, the only problem that i have is after writing the cc values fader comes back to zero on its own, dont know what could be the problem...


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

Ok... is it a hardware fault, I think this could be a possibility....


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## DynamicK

I've just checked my XTC without connecting it to my PC. In Midi Mode, the faders will stay where I move them to. Put the XTC into MC mode and my XTC displays the behaviour in your video. So looks like your XTC won't go into Midi Mode. Have you tried Behringer Support?


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

DynamicK said:


> I've just checked my XTC without connecting it to my PC. In Midi Mode, the faders will stay where I move them to. Put the XTC into MC mode and my XTC displays the behaviour in your video. So looks like your XTC won't go into Midi Mode. Have you tried Behringer Support?


Ok, I have not contacted behringer yet, but is there any possibility of firmware upgrade that can solve this problem.. what do you think


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## mac

HeliaVox said:


> I have an XTouch. Love it. I was thinking of getting the smaller version, but there was no Mac editor. So I emailed them and they told me there was a beta version to DL. I never bought the smaller unit, but just wanted to let Mac users know there is at least something out there.



Are the screens able to take their colour from the track colour in logic?


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## Garry

Gordon_hiphoplp said:


> Ok, I have not contacted behringer yet, but is there any possibility of firmware upgrade that can solve this problem.. what do you think





Gordon_hiphoplp said:


> Ok, I have not contacted behringer yet, but is there any possibility of firmware upgrade that can solve this problem.. what do you think



Someone has just solved my problem on another thread, which means I can now solve yours! The thread is here. 

The problem you're having I think can be solved by changing mode: it seems you're currently in MCU mode (I was able to recreate your problem by doing this); if you go into Mackie mode (press and hold Select on Ch1 as you power up the unit, and then turn the knob on channel 1 to Mackie, then reboot the XTouch), then it will communicate with Logic correctly. 

This will get you to the point where I was until just now... I could communicate correctly with logic for mixing, but no cc control. The poster on the other thread just solved this for me: press Shift + Instrument on the XTouch, then open up Smart Controls, press the 'I', hit Learn for External Assignment on 1 of the Smart Controls (assuming you've already mapped the Smart Controls, but this is easily done with Learn in the instrument), and then move the fader. Hey presto, it worked!! 

I was sure I had bought the wrong unit and only that XTouch compact can send CC info (I've read that on so many threads!) that I bought a nanokontrol 2 instead (which actually works great, and rendered by XTouch defunct, but now I can use the much better faders on the XTouch). But here I am, controlling cc with the XTouch (eg, I can control expression, vibrato, etc in Albion ONE - my whole purpose!) YEAH!

Thank you to Heliovox for solving my problem, and indirectly, yours too mac!


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## Garry

Uh oh, I spoke too soon! I was able to get parameters mapped to controls on the X-Touch, with only 1 fader exhibiting the behaviour you described (jumping back to zero autonomously). Unfortunately, in trying to recreate this problem on the other faders, I can no longer get them to work! Ok, 2 steps forward, 1 back! I'm at least reassured the the X-Touch can indeed send cc data! After all this time! Will keep playing around to try to get it fully working again...


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

Garry said:


> Uh oh, I spoke too soon! I was able to get parameters mapped to controls on the X-Touch, with only 1 fader exhibiting the behaviour you described (jumping back to zero autonomously). Unfortunately, in trying to recreate this problem on the other faders, I can no longer get them to work! Ok, 2 steps forward, 1 back! I'm at least reassured the the X-Touch can indeed send cc data! After all this time! Will keep playing around to try to get it fully working again...




I got it in the end, No matter what software you are using and how the routing is set up the fader coming back to zero is something different in xtouch compact and the reason why faders keep coming back to zero was that cc values of foot+fader and fader-touch were similar or matching at certain faders, so as we know foot pedal sends only on and off information nothing else(I just overlooked it in the beginning), so when I used to move any fader, it did send the cc value but once the finger is lifted(ie-touch is off) the foot pedal caused it to come back to zero as it tells the software to turn it off, so make sure that you check the values of fader+foot and fader+touch in this case so that faders don't come back to zero...

Thanks everybody for your time and cooperation!!!
Cheers


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## HeliaVox

mac said:


> Are the screens able to take their colour from the track colour in logic?



Color scribble strips not available in MC Mode, only in xctl mode through an ethernet connection. It's to be used with the Behringer X32 and other units like it. Kinda disingenuous, but there you go.


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## HeliaVox

Garry said:


> Uh oh, I spoke too soon! I was able to get parameters mapped to controls on the X-Touch, with only 1 fader exhibiting the behaviour you described (jumping back to zero autonomously). Unfortunately, in trying to recreate this problem on the other faders, I can no longer get them to work! Ok, 2 steps forward, 1 back! I'm at least reassured the the X-Touch can indeed send cc data! After all this time! Will keep playing around to try to get it fully working again...



Ok this may sound strange, but, if my XTouch is turned on before I launch Logic, it is not recognized correctly. I have to power cycle the XTouch in order for Logic to communicate properly/ Sometimes I may even have to do it twice. 

YMMV, because I am also using a Komplete Kontrol S88 in tandem with my XTouch


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## DynamicK

Gordon_hiphoplp said:


> I got it in the end, reason why faders keep coming back to zero was that cc values of foot+fader and fader-touch were similar or matching at certain faders


So it was a mapping issue. There really should be a warning if you duplicate mappings in the editor. Just a confirmation to check that is what you want.


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## Gordon_hiphoplp

DynamicK said:


> So it was a mapping issue. There really should be a warning if you duplicate mappings in the editor. Just a confirmation to check that is what you want.


Yeah they must give this feature in editor for mapping but i think it is also a feature in itself if somebody want faders to come back to zero after writing cc they can do it, also sometimes you might want to use knob set to same cc value of a fader to control filter in most cases where there is no expression or mod feature in any library, but you have to be sure of what mapping same options on different sections simultaneously can affect your workflow


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## Dewdman42

whinecellar said:


> Hey guys, for what it’s worth, I grabbed an X-Touch Compact and I absolutely LOVE it. Getting Midas on board for manufacturing was the best move they ever made. This thing feels like a real quality piece of hardware – the faders are incredibly smooth and with 100mm range, there’s plenty a resolution to be truly expressive with the latest crop of VIs - no more tiny cheesy plastic faders for me. And with 2 layers, each fader, button, and knob can essentially do two different things. In CC mode the fader motors are off, which is perfect; with a quick reboot into MC mode, I can use it for touch-sensitive automation writes with full MCU support.
> 
> IMO, other than its chunky size and having to power off to reboot, this is the perfect hardware controller for what we do!



What are you using to edit the CC assignments? The editor is supposedly only available on PC, no mac version.


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## whinecellar

Dewdman42 said:


> What are you using to edit the CC assignments? The editor is supposedly only available on PC, no mac version.



I use my PC slave, which is a bit of a pain until you get it dialed in... but once you do it’s rock solid.


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## Dewdman42

Unfortunately I don't have any PC's in the house. Wondering if this will run on the mac with wine or vmware fusion.


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## Dewdman42

So I am able to run the editor on VMware fusion, I don't know if it works or not because I don't have an actual unit yet to try it with, but it seems to work, though not connected. VMware Fusion is able to access USB ports generally speaking so in theory it will probably work. 

I tried wine, the free and more direct solution, the apps runs, but as soon as you switch to one of the editor pages and try to edit something, it crashes. I might be able to figure that out later after I have an x-touch, we'll see. but anyway just wanted to report that it seems to run ok on VMware, though I won't know for sure until I buy a unit and try it.


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## Mucusman

I posted this in another thread, but Behringer is about to release a single-fader version of their X-Touch line, with jog wheel, MIDI CC control, single 100mm motorized fader, and a number of included plastic DAW templates/overlays called the X-Touch One. I'll be picking one up soon and report back once I've got it up and running.


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## Dewdman42

yep for $150


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## steveo42

Mucusman said:


> I posted this in another thread, but Behringer is about to release a single-fader version of their X-Touch line, with jog wheel, MIDI CC control, single 100mm motorized fader, and a number of included plastic DAW templates/overlays called the X-Touch One. I'll be picking one up soon and report back once I've got it up and running.



That unit is going to be a huge hit.
Are the buttons on the Behringer units soft touch or are they hard, clicky types like on the original Faderport?


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## Dewdman42

alright, I just received an X-Touch compact. are you able to use it in LPX in MC mode at all? I can't get LPX 10.4.1 to even recognize it and I'm finding many posts on the internet from other users with the same problem. what is the secret?

I did get it work easily with Digital Performer, so I know its connected right over USB. 

I have to say also, these must be the noisiest motorized faders I have ever seen. You can even hear the electric motor buzzing inside like an electric train set when you move the fader slowly from the DAW.

Might be useful strictly as CC motorless automation, I'm about to try that, but so far I'm not impressed.


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## Dewdman42

ps - I am able to report that using VMware Fusion on the mac with the editing software seems to connect over USB and so probably works, I'm going to try to tweak a few settings and see if it sticks. So anyway that is one way to run the editing software on a mac, though its a lot of overhead to install VMWare fusion just for this. I heard you can ask behringer for the Beta mac version but I'm not sure who to ask.


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## HeliaVox

steveo42 said:


> That unit is going to be a huge hit.
> Are the buttons on the Behringer units soft touch or are they hard, clicky types like on the original Faderport?


The buttons are rubber buttons, that press in soft. No click like the rubber pads in the newer NI stuff. The rotary encoders up top do make a noticible click when pressed down to make a selection. The transport controls are harder palstic, but push in softly, no clicking when engaging.
I hth.


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## HeliaVox

Dewdman42 said:


> alright, I just received an X-Touch compact. are you able to use it in LPX in MC mode at all? I can't get LPX 10.4.1 to even recognize it and I'm finding many posts on the internet from other users with the same problem. what is the secret?
> 
> I did get it work easily with Digital Performer, so I know its connected right over USB.
> 
> I have to say also, these must be the noisiest motorized faders I have ever seen. You can even hear the electric motor buzzing inside like an electric train set when you move the fader slowly from the DAW.
> 
> Might be useful strictly as CC motor-less automation, I'm about to try that, but so far I'm not impressed.



Strange, my faders don't make any sort of noise at all when moving. Well, minus that "swoosh" sound that I've heard on every other motorized fader I've ever used. Maybe you have a bad unit?
Looking at the quick start guide, it mentions there is a MC mode, and you hold the button that says MC in the bottom left of the unit down while powering on. There also is a page showing you what each fader, button and knob does while in MC mode.
If I would have been paying attention, I probably would have gotten a compact instead of the universal.
I feel bad, because I have been aciidentally giving the wrong info. I thought I had an invite to get the Mac beta software, but as I reread the forum message, he said that they are working on it, and aren't accepting and request for the software. The post was made in June of last year. My old man memory can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning. Once again my apologies.
But it makes me wonder, it's been OVER a year now since that message. Still no Mac software? Anyway,
Happy music making!


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## Dewdman42

I did the MC button to put into MC mode and the led indicates MC mode is on and it works as such in DP, but LPX simply does not see it. This is an issue with the compact I think, not the universal. Like I said when I searched around the net about it I found tons of people having the issue and no resolution. The unit does not support firmware updates so maybe there is a problem that can’t be resolved, I don’t know but what I can say is that as far as I’m concerned XTC does not work in MC mode with LPX.

Your unit only makes a swish sound when you move the fader SLOWLY from your daw?


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## Dewdman42

Mine is going back probably. I was going to consider it for CC only because it has a lot of faders and pots but too many issues that need to work better.


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## steveo42

HeliaVox said:


> The buttons are rubber buttons, that press in soft. No click like the rubber pads in the newer NI stuff. The rotary encoders up top do make a noticible click when pressed down to make a selection. The transport controls are harder palstic, but push in softly, no clicking when engaging.
> I hth.



Thank you HeliaVox!


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## whinecellar

I have both an X-Touch (for Logic) and X-Touch Compact (heavily custom-mapped for CCs and controlling sample libraries), and both have been flawless for me - zero noise on automation rides, and the hardware actually feels great since Midas builds them. I love mine!


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## Dewdman42

Maybe mine is defective then. Still, the editor for cc is not on Mac. Did you get the compact to work on Mc mode with LPX? Mine is going back


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## whinecellar

Dewdman42 said:


> Maybe mine is defective then. Still, the editor for cc is not on Mac. Did you get the compact to work on Mc mode with LPX? Mine is going back



I did briefly use the XT Compact flawlessly with LPX when I first got it, but I ended up getting a full X-Touch to use with Logic so I could use the Compact for all my custom assignments. Both have been great for me, but programming the Compact is a pain since I have to keep hooking it up to my PC slave every time I want to change something. I do wish they would release a native Mac editor for it!


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## Dewdman42

whinecellar said:


> I did briefly use the XT Compact flawlessly with LPX when I first got it,



Can you please tell me how you got it to work "flawlessly"? I can't even get LPX to recognize it. I searched around on the net and found many other people having the same problem and no resolution. You're the first person I've heard say it works. How did you get it to show up in LPX? what version of LPX?


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## Dewdman42

If I get a chance I'll make a video of how freakin' noisy my XTC faders are. 

Aside from that, even if its just a defective unit in some way, I am already put off by the fact it doesn't work with LPX and no mac editor, so its mostly useless to me...its going back..

it does have nice long through faders if you run without motors and if you use a PC, then could be good for that, but buyer beware if you're on a mac, and especially if you're using Logic Pro.


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## whinecellar

Dewdman42 said:


> ...it does have nice long through faders if you run without motors and if you use a PC, then could be good for that, but buyer beware if you're on a mac, and especially if you're using Logic Pro.



Thing is, although the Compact will work with Logic in MC mode (the manual tells you how to set it on power-up; that’s all I did and it worked perfectly) - the full X-Touch is the one you want if you’re looking to control Logic. It’s just way beyond the Compact. 

The Compact, on the other hand, is the one you want for building a slick custom controller. I use mine for lots of advanced features of Spitfire libraries, CSS, Logic key commands, etc. Yeah, the lack of a Mac editor is a pain, but if you have a slave PC, that’s an easy workaround.

Hate to say it again, but I love both versions - just for different things


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## whinecellar

Dewdman42 said:


> Can you please tell me how you got it to work "flawlessly"? I can't even get LPX to recognize it...



All I did was follow the power-up button combo in the manual, if I recall. Dumb question - is yours directly connected to your Mac or to a hub? Tried different cables?

So sorry you had such trouble with it - I can’t think of a reason why it wouldn’t work!


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## Dewdman42

Yea I dunno didn’t work at all for me. I don’t have a pc. Plus honestly these faders are noisy as hell. Sending back. Thanks for the follow up


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## Dewdman42

Ps - no hub. It worked in MC mode with DP. LPX wouldn’t recognize it as a controller. If there was a Mac editor maybe I’d use it as a cc controller which was my primary objective. But I’d have to send this one back because the fader motors must be defective. But there is no Mac editor so it’s useless to me as a cc controller either.


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## Dewdman42

Also I want to clarify for you and others about the Motors being off in cc mode. They aren’t actually off. This has to do with routing midi in LPX. In order for the motorized faders to move, the cc data on the LPX track needs to be sent out to the XTC as a midi device. In that mode it’s not functioning as a Mackie controller it’s functioning as a standard midi controller so LPX isn’t routing that for you. There are a couple ways to do that. Then you can listen to it clacking around and making lots of noise if you want to mirror your cc’s on the track


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## Mucusman

PreSonus has revamped their FaderPort, BUT PreSonus has confirmed to me that a MIDI CC mode is not implemented for their new FaderPort (or the FaderPort 8 and 16, for that matter)... so it's still looking like it will be the X-Touch One for me, which seems like won't be released until November.

Should be out late July, 2018, with a suggested retail price of $199 USD.


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## Dewdman42

I think I now know why I couldn't get the XTC to work with LPX...for anyone that is looking for an answer to that, have to manually install it into Logic as a "Mackie Controller". I was looking for Behringer X-Touch on the list. It definitely doesn't install itself automatically, but according to Behringer support, who got back to me this morning:



> You need to go to your Control Surface Setup > INSTALL > Select MACKIE DESIGNS, MACKIE CONTROL, LOGIC CONTROL. Once done, you can then go to the devices settings and select the IN/OUT to be X-Touch.



Mine is already boxed up and will still being returned because of no Mac editor, and their support did tell me there is in fact no beta version for the mac, and they did not give any indication at all whether there ever would be. Maybe there will, but its been quite a while since they said maybe there would be, and support didn't give me any hope about it.

I think mine has defective fader motors also as they are so noisy its unbelievable to me that anyone would accept that as normal. But I'm still sending it back because the primary purpose was for CC use, based in no small part on nice recommendations from this forum. That being said, I don't have a PC, and even though I could use Vmware and windows license to configure it, that is simply a PITA. If behringer ever gets around to releasing the mac editor I will definitely reconsider it and hopefully not get a defective unit next time. I do think the faders are nice and smooth, not including the motor issues. For CC use, its a nice box with not only those smooth faders but a bunch of endless pots and buttons too...so its quite a useful device as a midi controller. But you need a PC. i got it on sale for $250, not a bad price for what it is.


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## Leandro Z

Hi everybody! So I guess there isnt yet a "perfect" option about this.

Any thoughts on this one? Icon Platform X? The price isnt that bad and if it works nice it seems like an option to me.
Thanks!


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## Guffy

Leandro Z said:


> Hi everybody! So I guess there isnt yet a "perfect" option about this.
> 
> Any thoughts on this one? Icon Platform X? The price isnt that bad and if it works nice it seems like an option to me.
> Thanks!


I've been thinking about getting one of these (either Platform X or M).
Curious to hear if someone's tried it.


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## Jdiggity1

Fugdup said:


> I've been thinking about getting one of these (either Platform X or M).
> Curious to hear if someone's tried it.


Just got an X-touch compact yesterday. Faders actually feel really really nice. Super smooth.
Motors can be a little jittery when following automation in MC mode, but there's a utility to fix that: 

I mostly use it for MIDI CC though, which doesn't use the motors.


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## whinecellar

Jdiggity1 said:


> Just got an X-touch compact yesterday. Faders actually feel really really nice. Super smooth.
> Motors can be a little jittery when following automation in MC mode, but there's a utility to fix that:
> 
> I mostly use it for MIDI CC though, which doesn't use the motors.




Man, I’ve said it before, but the X-Touch/Compact are just stellar, IMO. They feel like real hardware - nothing “Behringer” about them since they’re made by Midas. I have one of each - one for Logic (full version in MCU mode) and a Compact for all my custom mappings. Couldn’t be happier!


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## Jdiggity1

whinecellar said:


> Man, I’ve said it before, but the X-Touch/Compact are just stellar, IMO. They feel like real hardware - nothing “Behringer” about them since they’re made by Midas. I have one of each - one for Logic (full version in MCU mode) and a Compact for all my custom mappings. Couldn’t be happier!


I hear ya! I'm sure it was your positive comments that gave me the confidence to go with this one. Glad I did.
Will likely add on one of the new X-Touch Ones to use for automation and transport. I rarely need more than one fader at a time for that stuff anyway.


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