# No more dongles!



## ReleaseCandidate (Mar 4, 2021)

The question is what they are going to use instead ...



> It’s too early to announce details on the schedule or the new environment, but one thing is for sure: The future will be dongle-free.
> The Steinberg Team


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## mjsalam (Mar 4, 2021)

Just saw some tweets from Steinberg committing to shedding the dongle! I for have been waiting a long time to hear this. I’d imagine the recent license server issues may have had a hand in the announcement. Either way it can’t come soon enough!

“It’s too early to announce details on the schedule or the new environment, but one thing is for sure: The future will be dongle-free.”

The Steinberg Team


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## mjsalam (Mar 4, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> The question is what they are going to use instead ...



You beat me to it! Great news!


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## Technostica (Mar 4, 2021)

Subscription only!


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## ReleaseCandidate (Mar 4, 2021)

Beat you by a minute! 


Technostica said:


> Subscription only!


Steinberg somewhere said they they won't go subscription, IIRC.

And what is VSL going to do?


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## MartinH. (Mar 4, 2021)

So is it gonna be always-online drm with unreliable licensing servers or some kind of novel tech that requires you to get a chip implant?


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## ReleaseCandidate (Mar 4, 2021)

Longer statement in the forum, but just more text, not more information 

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/license-management-and-the-future-of-the-elicenser-changes-ahead/701407
So, VSL: your turn!


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## khollister (Mar 4, 2021)

VSL has announced they are moving to iLok (dongle and cloud)


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## companyofquail (Mar 4, 2021)

my laptop has been waiting for this moment for years


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## J-M (Mar 4, 2021)

I couldn't believe it when I saw this on Twitter. This would be awesome.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Mar 4, 2021)

Here is the 'no-subscription' statement:



> Dear customers, we conducted a survey a couple of months ago in which we asked if subscription might be an alternative model. The result was a clear “no.” Of course we will respect this. There are definitely no plans or whatsoever for a subscription model.
> If you like to update to the latest version or if you stick with the version you originally purchased is entirely up to you.
> 
> Frank Simmerlein
> Marketing Director











Steinberg - Subscription


This subscription issue is not nearly as cut and dried for me. Take the Pro Tools support subscription example. This is not a subscription model because if you stop paying you can keep using the last version that you installed. They were asking $199 per year to support the standard Pro Tools...




forums.steinberg.net






Ah, that was 5 years ago.
But I thought I hear them say that not that long ago too.


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## pondinthestream (Mar 4, 2021)

Probably dongle-less ilok. Maybe some sort of demo now too


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## peladio (Mar 4, 2021)

I don't mind dongle, cloud, whatever..as long as it isn't subscription cause then I'll take my business elsewhere..


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## AudioLoco (Mar 4, 2021)

Hopefully iLok....
One key to rule them all c'mmon!

Well done for avoiding the hated sub!


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## MauroPantin (Mar 4, 2021)

My bet is on some sort of blockchain NFT implementation


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## Sunny Schramm (Mar 4, 2021)

YES ... thats amazing!  

Lets hope "VSL" will follow 🍀🍀🍀


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## DCPImages (Mar 4, 2021)

That is fantastic news! Having to have a dongle was the one-and-only reason I didn’t go with Cubase (or indeed 7th Heaven Reverb for that matter). I do a lot of work on laptops on the road and having to use a scarce USB port for a dongle was always a dealbreaker.


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## grabauf (Mar 4, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> YES ... thats amazing!
> 
> Lets hope "VSL" will follow 🍀🍀🍀


VSL was first to announce it today.


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## Dietz (Mar 4, 2021)

Re: Steinberg - Having to deal with machine-based license managements is a major PITA for people like me who work in different studios on local machines all the time, but who want to bring in (some of) their own software tools nonetheless. I hope that there will be at least a solution like the one Waves offers, which allows for using any USB-stick as a mobile container for instantly valid licenses.


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## rgames (Mar 4, 2021)

Dietz said:


> Re: Steinberg - Having to deal with machine-based license managements is a major PITA for people like me who work in different studios on local machines all the time, but who want to bring in (some of) their own software tools nonetheless. I hope that there will be at least a solution like the one Waves offers, which allows for using any USB-stick as a mobile container for instantly valid licenses.


Yeah I'm in the same boat. If you move around a dongle is a much better solution.

However, the best solution of all is to offer at least two licenses, neither of which requires a dongle and neither of which requires a constant internet connection so you don't have to pay $15 when you're on an airplane.

And one other issue that hits me all the time (including yesterday): Waves got rid of the dongle but every time I transfer licenses I lose several minutes waiting for Waves Central to do its frigging updates. That's a colossal PITA and is one reason why I'm ridding myself of Waves stuff. Transferring licenses with a dongle takes about 5 seconds.

I don't see much real info above other than the dongle is going away. I hope they don't go the Waves route... that approach very much does *not* work for me. I much prefer a dongle over the Waves approach.

rgames


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## Sunny Schramm (Mar 4, 2021)

DCPImages said:


> That is fantastic news! Having to have a dongle was the one-and-only reason I didn’t go with Cubase (or indeed 7th Heaven Reverb for that matter). I do a lot of work on laptops on the road and having to use a scarce USB port for a dongle was always a dealbreaker.


Seventh Heaven works without a dongle. ilok-cloud makes it possible.


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## PaulieDC (Mar 4, 2021)

rgames said:


> Yeah I'm in the same boat. If you move around a dongle is a much better solution.
> 
> However, the best solution of all is to offer at least two licenses, neither of which requires a dongle and neither of which requires a constant internet connection so you don't have to pay $15 when you're on an airplane.
> 
> ...


VSL announced a commitment to iLok, both cloud and stick, perfect solution for the plane as long as you transfer before you leave for the airport. Hopefully Steinberg follows suit!
Greetings from Scottsdale BTW, just discovered you're also from AZ.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 4, 2021)

iLok please......


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## RogiervG (Mar 4, 2021)

Ehm.. i prefer their own tool for license control, that is in the same vain as e.g. arturia's or Orchestral Tools or Spitfire audio or heck even native intstruments one. An account, login, activate, done. Need updates? login again, download update, install, done.
Oh and make sure you can always deactivate a license via the tool from wherever you run the tool (or website), e.g at a friends computer because your are visiting him/her because your machine is dead in the water and needs replacement hardware, you don't lose a license (if they will allow two activations or more).
Most activators use an algorythm based on a unique computer identifier number, calculated with e.g. Motherboard, cpu, and some other info, so a replacement hardware can make an activation invalid.


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## Al Maurice (Mar 4, 2021)

This is good news, if they could provide something like Presonus with several activatable licences that you can be transferred, then that will be something at least.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 4, 2021)

What if your machine is generally offline (for security purposes, maybe)? No login..
Steinberg Servers are under maintenance..No login...
Backyard Opossum chewed your cable..No login...

I wouldnt like that Steinberg becomes the new NI with their horrible Native 
Access which turned me into a depressed hulk a lot of times.


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## homie (Mar 4, 2021)

Other than possibly getting a second computer activated this not really good news to me at all.

Single computer/license was the only downside regarding eLicenser for me. (moving dongles between computers sucks) Other than that worked like a charme for years.


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## RogiervG (Mar 4, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> What if your machine is generally offline (for security purposes, maybe)? No login..
> Steinberg Servers are under maintenance..No login...
> Backyard Opossum chewed your cable..No login...
> 
> ...


Maybe they could allow 100 offline starts? after those, it needs to call home again.. for another 100.
Look infinite offline starts is not a proper move imho. Because what if your machine is stolen or breaks down... it has an activated license on it.. in case of theft, it remains working because it's not calling home (logged in online). How ehm, would you be able to retrieve your license? You can't. Steinberg needs to generate a new license for you, that you can activate. But in case of theft, the thief still has YOUR license in use...forever (and the software remains working too)


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## RogiervG (Mar 4, 2021)

homie said:


> Other than possibly getting a second computer activated this not really good news to me at all.
> 
> Single computer/license was the only downside regarding eLicenser for me. (moving dongles between computers sucks) Other than that worked like a charme for years.


If they allow license activation/deactivation via a tool, that is easy peasy right? Login, deactivate license for a machine, and activate it for another. just as fast a inserting a dongle, imho.
Or indeed they now allow more activations, like several others do with software protection tools (arturia e.g.). 

So it's still good news, no more dongle breaking/loosing risks...


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## heisenberg (Mar 4, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> VSL announced a commitment to iLok, both cloud and stick, perfect solution for the plane as long as you transfer before you leave for the airport. Hopefully Steinberg follows suit!
> Greetings from Scottsdale BTW, just discovered you're also from AZ.


Steinberg announced this earlier today on their forum, a few hours before it was announced here in this thread.

In hindsight, I am not surprised given the tenuous nature of some of the updates to their elicenser recently. Just a hunch though.


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## AdamKmusic (Mar 4, 2021)

I've , fingers crossed, never had any dongle issues since being a Cubase user (about 6-7 years now). So the issues have just been for people registering new versions of Cubase?


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## Polkasound (Mar 4, 2021)

True story: A few weeks ago, I wrote to Steinberg to explain that I have two PCs in two different cities, both running Cubase, but only one license/dongle between them. I complained that every time I'd forget the dongle, I'd have to make a half-hour round trip, and that I really wish there were a better way.

Probably not true: My email touched Steinberg's hearts, reduced them to tears, and impelled them to find a solution. A printout of my email is now hanging on the office wall of Takuya Nakata, president of Yamaha Corporation, where it will forever serve as a source of inspiration for future generations of the company's leaders. You're welcome.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 4, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> Maybe they could allow 100 offline starts? after those, it needs to call home again.. for another 100.
> Look infinite offline starts is not a proper move imho. Because what if your machine is stolen or breaks down... it has an activated license on it.. in case of theft, it remains working because it's not calling home (logged in online). How ehm, would you be able to retrieve your license? You can't. Steinberg needs to generate a new license for you, that you can activate. But in case of theft, the thief still has YOUR license in use...forever (and the software remains working too)


If they would allow a limited number of "starts", ill say goodbye. My machine is not connected to the net, after its set up.
In case of theft, youre better be insured. If someone steals a piece of hardware, how would you be able to retrieve that? How do we know that some serials (simple oldschool serialcode offline activation like the U-He Stuff) of our vst's we own, havnt been leaked already? The theft's serial from you will work, but yours will work too, forever, because
the program doesnt need to phone home or be connected to the servers once in a while.
You bought it, and you better have the invoice printed and sorted in a shelf, so that no thief can destroy your life.

I wouldnt use something like Adobe that has to phone home, only at work...were most of the IT is always online and
there are better security standards than at home.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 4, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> True story: A few weeks ago, I wrote to Steinberg to explain that I have two PCs in two different cities, both running Cubase, but only one license/dongle between them. I complained that every time I'd forget the dongle, I'd have to make a half-hour round trip, and that I really wish there were a better way.
> 
> Probably not true: My email touched Steinberg's hearts, reduced them to tears, and impelled them to find a solution. A printout of my email is now hanging on the office wall of Takuya Nakata, president of Yamaha Corporation, where it will forever serve as a source of inspiration for future generations of the company's leaders. You're welcome.


But instead of keeping Steinberg busy, you could have just bought a second license(+r) and superglue the Dongles to their USB Ports, like me. And if the whole machine get stolen you just replace your Studio and house for a nicer one with metal bars after you have replaced the thefts brain with a hole.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 4, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> So it's still good news, no more dongle breaking/loosing risks...


The arousing act of inserting Dongles into Ports will take some time to overcome.
Sacrificing primitive instincts for evolutive purposes, lets do it again.


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## darkogav (Mar 4, 2021)

the benefit of the dongle was you could install full ver of Cubase on multiple systems and move the dongle to the system you need to work on . down side is it used a USB port.


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## Polkasound (Mar 4, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> But instead of keeping Steinberg busy, you could have just bought a second license(+r)


It actually did occur to me a couple days ago that one of my DAWs will likely never need an update or new content from Steinberg or any other company that uses the eLicenser. I could keep the dongle in that DAW, order a new dongle for my other DAW, and transfer the licenses to it. The DAW with the old dongle would continue running Cubase on a deactivated license.

I would normally never promote breaking a EULA, but when it's only to make things easier for the sole use of the licensed user, I see no harm in it.


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## Dietz (Mar 4, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> Seventh Heaven works without a dongle. ilok-cloud makes it possible.


If you ever go to a commercial facility with a rigid off-line policy for their workstations (sometimes imposed on them by their clients) you will happily resort to the hardware.


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## JamieLang (Mar 4, 2021)

Unless they use iLok AND support that dongle as an option, this is a bad news for me. I hate machine authorization...a LOT. So, switching to iLok? Cool. Positive move--TWO dongles has always been stupid. But, converting to "always online" machine authorization? 

Super negative. 

Not to mention, this means you can't run downlevel versions, right? because version <12(or whatever when they chage it) will be coded to look for eLicenser.


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## EgM (Mar 4, 2021)

JamieLang said:


> Unless they use iLok AND support that dongle as an option, this is a bad news for me. I hate machine authorization...a LOT. So, switching to iLok? Cool. Positive move--TWO dongles has always been stupid. But, converting to "always online" machine authorization?
> 
> Super negative.
> 
> Not to mention, this means you can't run downlevel versions, right? because version <12(or whatever when they chage it) will be coded to look for eLicenser.



No one ever said you couldn't use both options, use USB iLok if you don't like machine auths


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## homie (Mar 4, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> If they allow license activation/deactivation via a tool, that is easy peasy right? Login, deactivate license for a machine, and activate it for another. just as fast a inserting a dongle, imho.
> Or indeed they now allow more activations, like several others do with software protection tools (arturia e.g.).
> 
> So it's still good news, no more dongle breaking/loosing risks...


I've no desire to actively managing licenses. Everything should simply work in the background once set up. That is/was the case with eLicenser.

Besides eLicenser is more or less working offline most of the time. You only need an internet connection to redeem activation codes once per license after that it's self sufficient.

Let's see what they come up with.


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## homie (Mar 4, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> It actually did occur to me a couple days ago that one of my DAWs will likely never need an update or new content from Steinberg or any other company that uses the eLicenser. I could keep the dongle in that DAW, order a new dongle for my other DAW, and transfer the licenses to it. The DAW with the old dongle would continue running Cubase on a deactivated license.
> 
> I would normally never promote breaking a EULA, but when it's only to make things easier for the sole use of the licensed user, I see no harm in it.


I don't think that would work. How would Cubase continue to run with a missing license on the "old" dongle? Cubase checks the license at start up and occasionally when running irc.


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## jcrosby (Mar 4, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> So is it gonna be always-online drm with unreliable licensing servers or some kind of novel tech that requires you to get a chip implant?


Chip implant. Duh. (Optional breast implants coming in Q4 21)


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## Polkasound (Mar 4, 2021)

homie said:


> I don't think that would work. How would Cubase continue to run with a missing license on the "old" dongle? Cubase checks the license at start up and occasionally when running irc.


My original dongle wouldn't be missing a license. It would still have the old license on it. The old license would be invalidated by Steinberg, but the invalidation process would not reach the old dongle since the old dongle would remain offline.

The only problem I'd see is if I did go online and Steinberg checked the dongle without my knowledge. I might have to set up firewall rules ahead of time to prevent that from happening.


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## BenG (Mar 4, 2021)

Amazing news!


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## DCPImages (Mar 4, 2021)

Sunny Schramm said:


> Seventh Heaven works without a dongle. ilok-cloud makes it possible.


Unfortunately Ilok-cloud seems to require constant internet connection? This is really problematic too when you are on the move.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 5, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Chip implant. Duh. (Optional breast implants coming in Q4 21)


NFC breast implants (Steinberg Cueboobs) would be a seller. Once you are near your
machine, DAW will run for good.


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## homie (Mar 5, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> My original dongle wouldn't be missing a license. It would still have the old license on it. The old license would be invalidated by Steinberg, but the invalidation process would not reach the old dongle since the old dongle would remain offline.
> 
> The only problem I'd see is if I did go online and Steinberg checked the dongle without my knowledge. I might have to set up firewall rules ahead of time to prevent that from happening.


Interesting, i never saw such a pending state. I always thought swapping the license can only be done online by the eLicenser server and a license can only be at one place at a time. I may be wrong of course.


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## Polkasound (Mar 5, 2021)

homie said:


> Interesting, i never saw such a pending state. I always thought swapping the license can only be done online by the eLicenser server and a license can only be at one place at a time. I may be wrong of course.


You are correct, but my strategy would be to buy a new dongle and get a new license for it to run Cubase on one DAW. But my other DAW would continue to run Cubase using the old dongle and old license. Since that DAW and dongle never connects to the internet, Cubase would have no way of knowing the license on that dongle was deactivated.


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## dzilizzi (Mar 5, 2021)

Technostica said:


> Subscription only!


This is the next step. 

The options for dongle-less license control usually require some kind of machine licensing. What if you can't be online on your studio computer? I've recently had a problem with the soft license that was attached to my computer. I upgraded the nvme drive but didn't realize Steinberg installed something, probably Padshop Pro, as a soft license. I now get error messages every time I load a DAW that the soft license is missing. 

This could be they are cutting costs of supporting the elicenser, but if you have to be online to use it, hey, why not make it subscription also? Not good.


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## lokotus (Mar 5, 2021)

you feel no dongle could improve speed and less crashes or is it just for convenience ?


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## homie (Mar 5, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> You are correct, but my strategy would be to buy a new dongle and get a new license for it to run Cubase on one DAW. But my other DAW would continue to run Cubase using the old dongle and old license. Since that DAW and dongle never connects to the internet, Cubase would have no way of knowing the license on that dongle was deactivated.


I'm slowly getting a better picture of what you want to do, but not quite there yet.  How do you deactivate a license on a dongle and why would you want to do it? What do gain by doing that? I also don't get the part about staying offline. Maybe im stupid or something 

If you have two dongles and each has a unique license everything would be fine for using them with two computers (without the need to carry a dongle around).


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## homie (Mar 5, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> This is the next step.
> 
> The options for dongle-less license control usually require some kind of machine licensing. What if you can't be online on your studio computer? I've recently had a problem with the soft license that was attached to my computer. I upgraded the nvme drive but didn't realize Steinberg installed something, probably Padshop Pro, as a soft license. I now get error messages every time I load a DAW that the soft license is missing.
> 
> This could be they are cutting costs of supporting the elicenser, but if you have to be online to use it, hey, why not make it subscription also? Not good.


They already stated there are not going subscription. I think it would be too risky for them to do that knowing most people refuse it with a passion. Offering subscription in parallel may be ok, but i think i'd get uncomfortable by the mere presence of such a thing at Steinberg.


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## Rasoul Morteza (Mar 5, 2021)

This is good news. I recently went to a studio early morning just to realize that I forgot my dongle to run Cubase...

Thank goodness for Reaper's omnipresence though.


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## Polkasound (Mar 5, 2021)

homie said:


> If you have two dongles and each has a unique license everything would be fine for using them with two computers (without the need to carry a dongle around).


Yes, but the proper way to have two Cubase licenses on two dongles is to buy Cubase twice. That is very expensive. $580.00 x 2 = $1,160.00

Instead of paying $580 for a second license, I'd buy a second dongle for $28 and tell Steinberg my original dongle was stolen. They'd issue me a new license for the new dongle. I'd use the new dongle and new license on one DAW, but continue to use the old dongle and old license on the other DAW. The catch is that I would never again be able to connect that DAW to Steinberg via the internet because if they accessed the old dongle, they'd discover the old license and deactivate it, rendering the old dongle useless.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 5, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> You are correct, but my strategy would be to buy a new dongle and get a new license for it to run Cubase on one DAW. But my other DAW would continue to run Cubase using the old dongle and old license. Since that DAW and dongle never connects to the internet, Cubase would have no way of knowing the license on that dongle was deactivated.


Go for it. But the rest of us loyal users who still 
believe in god, Steinberg should offer an option to take the 
Dongles back and give a small reward in return, like a second 
license.

What else are they thinking we could do with obsolete Dongles?
Sticking them into the ground too see if they grow a forest?

I hate the idea that someday an indian trash collector will dig 
my Dongle up and melts it, to recycle it into a new kind of 
Cat Litter Scraper. Then i would buy the Dongle again, and
thats just not cool.


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## Polkasound (Mar 5, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Steinberg should offer an option to take the
> Dongles back and give a small reward in return, like a second
> license.


That might be a bit much, because a Cubase license is worth $580, whereas as new dongle is about $30.

We don't know what system Steinberg is going to use in place of the dongle, but my guess is that it will allow for a single license to be activated on multiple DAWs. Maybe they're coming up with a soft licensing system where you can activate a single license on up to three DAWs at a time -- full price for the first activation, and a nominal fee for additional activations. Internet access would only be required during the activation/deactivation process, but not while using the software.

The main downside is that if your DAW got stolen or destroyed, or your SSD fried, Steinberg wouldn't be able to deactivate anything on it, and you could burn through your allotment of activations. They would need some kind of system in place to handle these scenarios.


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## Quasar (Mar 5, 2021)

Nothing that requires access to any kind of remote service is ever acceptable.


Rasoul Morteza said:


> This is good news. I recently went to a studio early morning just to realize that I forgot my dongle to run Cubase...
> 
> *Thank goodness for Reaper's omnipresence though.*


Yes, Reaper, at least, does it right.


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## Technostica (Mar 5, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> That might be a bit much, because a Cubase license is worth $580, whereas as new dongle is about $30.
> 
> We don't know what system Steinberg is going to use in place of the dongle, but my guess is that it will allow for a single license to be activated on multiple DAWs. Maybe they're coming up with a soft licensing system where you can activate a single license on up to three DAWs at a time -- full price for the first activation, and a nominal fee for additional activations. Internet access would only be required during the activation/deactivation process, but not while using the software.
> 
> The main downside is that if your DAW got stolen or destroyed, or your SSD fried, Steinberg wouldn't be able to deactivate anything on it, and you could burn through your allotment of activations. They would need some kind of system in place to handle these scenarios.


Other companies have methods that allow you to easily delete an activation if your system fails and you don’t have access to it.
iLok are not one as you will need to contact every vendor individually to ask them to remove their iLok activations if you don’t have access to the machine.


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## Tronam (Mar 5, 2021)

I'd personally like to see Steinberg go iLok, for convenience, but I doubt they will. They'll come up with their own machine or cloud authorization license system. Either way, laptop users rejoice.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 6, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> That might be a bit much, because a Cubase license is worth $580, whereas as new dongle is about $30.









So far, Steinberg said it will not be a subscription or always online. Doesnt sound like iLok also.
Machine bound seems most likely.


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## pixel (Mar 6, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> Maybe they're coming up with a soft licensing system where you can activate a single license on up to three DAWs at a time -- full price for the first activation, and a nominal fee for additional activations. Internet access would only be required during the activation/deactivation process, but not while using the software.


I hope not. Why I would have to pay any fee for something that now I have for free? I can install Cubase on 100 computers and use any of them, one at a time.


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## pixel (Mar 6, 2021)

One thing that I like about eLicenser is fact that I don't need to care about deactivation on an old machine. It's a real headache right now to control all those license apps (I have 10 or more of them). 
I had to make a list of every vendor and their activation system so when I'm changing PC I know which software I must deactivate and which I don't need to. It also applies to moving to a new place (and/or country). As I'm doing it once per year on average I'm bothered with knowledge of which license app is based on PC ID, motherboard ID, which on IP etc. etc. 
- Waves are usually the worst in that matter as if I remember correctly, their license app went crazy when I simply changed the internet provider or something as silly as that. Now I'm waiting for activation of new internet access and I'm keeping their plugins in the cloud in case if Waves Center will go mad again after I switch from the current 4G. This is ridiculous. I/we shouldn't be treated this way.
- Recently I lost 1 activation slot for my Best Service libraries because I changed settings in BIOS! 
- I also have memories of clunky Native Access (like waiting forever to open or download a forced update, crashes during installation etc.) - it took a while before they managed to make it stable. Now it's fine but I'm expecting a similar thing with Steinberg, that it will take time before their license app will work properly. I can't wait to participate in the public alpha release hidden under the 'official 1.0 version'.
- Roland Cloud? This is an abomination. I'm glad that I read about it before I gave them my money which they don't deserve to get for such horrible customers treatment.
- Acustica Audio: their Aquarius app is a joke. Deactivation is on the updates page  I just lost 1 activation slot because I was stupid enough to believe that such an option should be on the owned products page.

So far Plugin Alliance is doing well. I can unregister anything I want on their website. No need to worry about a broken or stolen PC, about forgetting to deactivate in on an old PC or after major OS failure.
Arturia is the same.
I hope Steinberg will follow PA/Arturia activation system, not Roland Cloud or Waves.


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## homie (Mar 6, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> My original dongle wouldn't be missing a license. It would still have the old license on it. The old license would be invalidated by Steinberg, but the invalidation process would not reach the old dongle since the old dongle would remain offline.
> 
> The only problem I'd see is if I did go online and Steinberg checked the dongle without my knowledge. I might have to set up firewall rules ahead of time to prevent that from happening.


Thanks, now i got it. I think i couldn't do that, i'd probably feel like a criminal.

There is a good chance that they will offer a better solution (hopfully without having to activate/deactivate every time) now they are ditching the dongles.


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## Crossroads (Mar 6, 2021)

Steinberg is going subscription bruhs.

Honestly, if the price is right, and the included content is good (Cubase + Absolute + Wavelab + Dorico for example) and you can have that for say 25 euros a month, I will be fine by that. Completely fine.


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## muk (Mar 6, 2021)

Crossroads said:


> Steinberg is going subscription bruhs


 
Steinberg has made it quite clear on their forum that they won't go subscription.


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## rudi (Mar 6, 2021)

pixel said:


> - Waves are usually the worst in that matter as if I remember correctly, their license app went crazy when I simply changed the internet provider or something as silly as that. Now I'm waiting for activation of new internet access and I'm keeping their plugins in the cloud in case if Waves Center will go mad again after I switch from the current 4G. This is ridiculous. I/we shouldn't be treated this way.


I had a similar experience. About a year ago I had a new router and switched my PC from WiFi to Ethernet. Since I no longer used WiFi I thought I would simply disable the WiFi adapter on my PC.

The next time I started my DAW, I got a Waves dialog box about invalid licenses... I was really puzzled. I launched the Wave Central app, and much to my consternation all my licenses were disabled. I am pretty sure they make a mention of it somewhere, but I wasn't aware of it at the time.

In panic I did a re-installation, which worked, but is only allowed on a limited basis (the reasons for which I fully understand).

The next time I alter or disable my system hardware I'll transfer the licenses back to the Waves cloud, make the changes and transfer back the licenses to my PC. Since then I haven't had any problem, but it was a scary moment for me.

The irony is that I'd much prefer the iLok system I understand they used to use. I like having my licenses in one place, and being able to simply plug the USB key into my system. No faffing around with re-authorisations, challenges, login to websites to de-activate / re-activate licenses.


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## dzilizzi (Mar 6, 2021)

pixel said:


> One thing that I like about eLicenser is fact that I don't need to care about deactivation on an old machine. It's a real headache right now to control all those license apps (I have 10 or more of them).
> I had to make a list of every vendor and their activation system so when I'm changing PC I know which software I must deactivate and which I don't need to. It also applies to moving to a new place (and/or country). As I'm doing it once per year on average I'm bothered with knowledge of which license app is based on PC ID, motherboard ID, which on IP etc. etc.
> - Waves are usually the worst in that matter as if I remember correctly, their license app went crazy when I simply changed the internet provider or something as silly as that. Now I'm waiting for activation of new internet access and I'm keeping their plugins in the cloud in case if Waves Center will go mad again after I switch from the current 4G. This is ridiculous. I/we shouldn't be treated this way.
> - Recently I lost 1 activation slot for my Best Service libraries because I changed settings in BIOS!
> ...


You do know you can activate Waves to a USB flash drive, right? Also if you have WUP active, they will reset your activation once with minimal questions - as in my USB flash drive is suddenly read only and my licenses don't work. I just emailed them and they did it. 

I do love Toontrack and PA for letting me control activations from the Product manager. Makes it easy to switch to a new computer.


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## Polkasound (Mar 6, 2021)

pixel said:


> I hope not. Why I would have to pay any fee for something that now I have for free? I can install Cubase on 100 computers and use any of them, one at a time.


Yes, that's the advantage of a dongle. But now let's say Steinberg allows soft licensing on up to three DAWs at a time. Joe Schmo and two of his friends will each chip in $200 to buy a single license for Cubase, which they will use on their individual DAWs.

If they're even more creative, Joe and five of his friends will each chip in $100 to buy one Cubase license. Three of them will install Cubase on their individual DAWs. Joe will report the DAWS damaged, so Steinberg will decommission the license and issue a new license which the other three will then use to run Cubase on their DAWS. So now you have six individuals using a single purchase of Cubase.

Such a plan may seem like convoluted madness to you and me, but to six teenagers making minimum wage, its sheer brilliance. (Of course there's always the disadvantage of not being able to perform updates with the old licenses.)

For this reason, I would not be averse to Steinberg charging a fee for each additional deactivation/activation service rendered.



homie said:


> Thanks, now i got it. I think i couldn't do that, i'd probably feel like a criminal.


I understand, but the old dongle would remain 100% in your possession. All you'd be doing is making it more convenient for you, and only you, to use your legally purchased, licensed copy of Cubase on two DAWs you own.


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## pixel (Mar 6, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> You do know you can activate Waves to a USB flash drive, right? Also if you have WUP active, they will reset your activation once with minimal questions - as in my USB flash drive is suddenly read only and my licenses don't work. I just emailed them and they did it.
> 
> I do love Toontrack and PA for letting me control activations from the Product manager. Makes it easy to switch to a new computer.


Of course, I know and I did it. Twice. In both cases, lovely Windows assigned a different ID to the same USB Pendrive after it was unplugged and plugged back to the same port so in the first case I had to recover licenses (Waves Center saw Pendrive as inactive), then in the second case a few days later it happened again and I couldn't reactivate licenses because I would have to pay for such amazing option (only 1 reactivation per year). I had to wait 1 year to use again plugins that I paid for.
So, no I will never ever try it again and for the same reason, I'll never buy the Waves plugin. Their anti-consumer behavior is unacceptable. Also, I found better alternatives in a meantime so maybe I should be thankful


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## dzilizzi (Mar 6, 2021)

pixel said:


> Of course, I know and I did it. Twice. In both cases, lovely Windows assigned a different ID to the same USB Pendrive after it was unplugged and plugged back to the same port so in the first case I had to recover licenses (Waves Center saw Pendrive as inactive), then in the second case a few days later it happened again and I couldn't reactivate licenses because I would have to pay for such amazing option (only 1 reactivation per year). I had to wait 1 year to use again plugins that I paid for.
> So, no I will never ever try it again and for the same reason, I'll never buy the Waves plugin. Their anti-consumer behavior is unacceptable. Also, I found better alternatives in a meantime so maybe I should be thankful


Ah, sorry that happened to you. I just have a little Cruzer drive. 1st one worked for about 5 years before I got the error messages. The second is still going strong over three years later. I leave them plugged into a hub that has my iLok, elicenser and codemeter. So all my dongles on a 4 port hub. I just move the hub between computers. been working really well for me.


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## DCPImages (Mar 8, 2021)

I understand and accept that companies need to safeguard their IP against piracy, but when they end up punishing loyal fee-paying customers with lockouts and cumbersome systems they are dumped. Simple as that.


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## robgb (Mar 8, 2021)

Maybe they (and everyone else) should use the licensing management that Reaper uses. Seems to work well for them.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 9, 2021)

DCPImages said:


> I understand and accept that companies need to safeguard their IP against piracy, but when they end up punishing loyal fee-paying customers with lockouts and cumbersome systems they are dumped. Simple as that.


Who cares if 5312 Russians and their uncles use a cracked Cubase?
They wouldnt have bought it anyway.

When does it become cumbersome, i ask myself. I remember that
it happened to me too some years ago that something didnt like
that i disabled my LAN Adapter....i think it was Cubase.
As long as the system itself does not suffer in performance,
makes you doing unwanted additional clicks before you
can even start, or getting too related to individual hardware 
configurations, its becoming a burden.

iLok would be my first choice, but...i wont have a problem with a 
systembound one-time online Activation.
For the NI Stuff i have, some Synapse Softsynths and AD2 (where 
you can just disable your activated System on their Website), its
not a problem because when my system would crash and it was not 
possible deactivating everything first, i could just make a whole 
HDD Image anytime and reload that in no time.

But a monthly onlinecheck or refresh at a date, 
that i cant control myself (and yea, many are control-freaks too),
would be a bullet to the head to Cubase for me. Just wanted to 
buy a new Workstation, but that has to wait now until Steinberg 
will decide if i switch to Mac or not, im not even mad.


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## Dietz (Mar 9, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Who cares if 5312 Russians and their uncles use a cracked Cubase?
> They wouldnt have bought it anyway.


Maybe, but nothing will hinder them from "sharing" with their ensnared Western brethren.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 9, 2021)

Dietz said:


> Maybe, but nothing will hinder them from "sharing" with their ensnared Western brethren.


As long as you teach your western children not to take from strangers...

I wouldnt recommend using pirated software just for the reasons
of it carrying potentional risky stuff, and that your mindset changes
into seeing software generally as worthless because its available for "free".

If someone just cant afford it or its not available to him and has no 
other options, or for educational purposes, who will judge...
Never liked the attitude of those that start a housefire when someone
states he is using pirated stuff for another reason than to show 
off that he is smarter by investing nothing.

If developers show that kind of questionable attitude,
you can almost guess what will happen to customers
sooner or later.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Mar 9, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> If someone just cant afford it or its not available to him and has no
> other options, or for educational purposes, who will judge...


That's actually how 'bigger' (already having many users) software grew in the past: just look at Windows and Photoshop. Better someone uses your cracked software than (s)he pays for the competition. People don't like to learn new software, so get them to use yours as early and often as possible (getting schools and universities to use your software is the jackpot). But you have to be 'big enough' to use that strategy, at least somebody (companies at best, they're willing to pay more) has to pay for your software too.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 9, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> That's actually how 'bigger' (already having many users) software grew in the past: just look at Windows and Photoshop. Better someone uses your cracked software than (s)he pays for the competition. People don't like to learn new software, so get them to use yours as early and often as possible (getting schools and universities to use your software is the jackpot). But you have to be 'big enough' to use that strategy, at least somebody (companies at best, they're willing to pay more) has to pay for your software too.


Not much doubt about it. Thats why Windows seems currently so semi-free
(it almost kindly asks you to activate ...maybe...someday) for private use and on the opposite 
is Adobe targeted at people with or at a job, or Youtubers that only need an After Effects Intro.

Its not that ...long ago when i had to phone Microsoft to activate Windows and state to that ladies
with strong accents that i use my copy of windows on only one machine, because i had used all
my activation limits (from reinstalling Win too many times). 
When i was using Corel Painter, i also had reached my activation limit once. Had to phone them,
and opposed to the lifeless sounding microsoft ladies, the one from Corel was truly draconic and
neglected to reset my activation limits. I had luck that i was active in a forum where a dev was 
present, so he easily reset it. Would that work with Steinberg? They even never activated my
Account there...
From those rare cases comes my fear of too strong copy protection..

Good alternatives to the Industry Standards names are there for serious work, i mean if i want to use a Photoshop alternative, the shortcuts are almost always the same there, because people are used to it and feel home instantly. I have made myself comfortable with those since Photoshop 5.0 and start to cut wrists when somebody mentions Gimp . Fully understandable that the older you get with your early adapted comfort, the harder it is to dislearn that.
I feel its not so bad with DAW's.


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## Dietz (Mar 9, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> If someone just cant afford it or its not available to him and has no
> other options, or for educational purposes, who will judge...


Apart from the debatable POV in general: Isn't it a bit cynical to measure multi-billion, globally tax-optimizing companies like Apple or Microsoft against comparably small entities in niche-markets that have a strong personal ethos towards their products, like most audio software manufacturers ...?


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 9, 2021)

Dietz said:


> Apart from the debatable POV in general: Isn't it a bit cynical to measure multi-billion, globally tax-optimizing companies like Apple or Microsoft against comparably small entities in niche-markets that have a strong personal ethos towards their products, like most audio software manufacturers ...?


Surely is? It may not be fair to "entities" who need to sell for bread and jam instead of new buildings to shovel their taxes on. 
If you sell something with ethos.....well, ethos cant be stolen.
But if you sell something with ethos and expect people to not steal it, you may lose it.


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## Dietz (Mar 9, 2021)

3DC said:


> I think the dongle business did more harm to Stainberg and Cubase then any good


This I doubt. I remember how VSL's sales suddenly quadrupled when the previously unprotected libraries came under the eLicenser umbrella.


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## Dietz (Mar 9, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> My Workstation: 468sx 33mhz, 4MB Ram, 160MB HDD, S-VGA SPEA/V7, Dos 3.1.
> Software: Fasttracker II
> Gear: Silver Karaokemic, Logitech 2.0 Speakers.


I see you're a hi-tech snob. My IBM XT sports 640 KB RAM and a Roland MPU 401 MIDI-interface, running "Texture" (a ASCII-based pattern-sequencer).


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 9, 2021)

Dietz said:


> I see you're a hi-tech snob. My IBM XT sports 640 KB RAM and a Roland MPU 401 MIDI-interface, running "Texture" (a ASCII-based pattern-sequencer).


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## marius_dm (Mar 9, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> My Workstation: 468sx 33mhz, 4MB Ram, 160MB HDD, S-VGA SPEA/V7, Dos 3.1.
> Software: Fasttracker II
> Gear: Silver Karaokemic, Logitech 2.0 Speakers.


I bet Fasttracker is flying on that monster rig!


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 9, 2021)

marius_dm said:


> I bet Fasttracker is flying on that monster rig!


Best thing is that my CPU doesnt even need any kind of heatsink, its that effective.

"Never change a running system"
-Steinberg (4 days ago)


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## Dietz (Mar 9, 2021)

marius_dm said:


> I bet Fasttracker is flying on that monster rig!


Aber hallo!


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## JamieLang (Mar 9, 2021)

Dietz said:


> This I doubt. I remember how VSL's sales suddenly quadrupled when the previously unprotected libraries came under the eLicenser umbrella.


As a legit customer of both(sort of--I bought the Giga, couldn't do anything with it, and they let me exchange it for the Vienna Instrument versions)...no--they made an exponentially BETTER product than they made under Gigastudio (which I assume are the unprotected you reference?). I mean I know they briefly did some deal with NI, but that was crazy brief. Giga's RAM limitations made it so you could literally open like maybe a Violin and Cello on the WHOLE machine...so, the Chamber string quartet (four sections-I realize there are more players) wasn't useable with out multiple computers. With VE, it was....AND was easier to transition articulations...and could do the RAM optimization where you could dump all but use samples from RAM (which is what made the four sections useable).

I mean, I don't know if eLicenser had a positive benefit for them...but the time they implemented it, their tech was a decade ahead of the game.

I want a dongle. Or we can just do serials/auth files. Whichever. Online machine based authorizations are not going to pry much from my wallet.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 10, 2021)

For what it's worth, here's my story on Synth and Software:









To Use an iLok Dongle or Not To Use an iLok Dongle (that is the question)


Stick vs. Cloud: shall we have another fight over copy protection? A couple of days ago we ran an announcement from Herb Tucmandl, head of Vienna Symphonic Library. But the story is larger than VSL, since most of you viewing this page use software that’s protected by the PACE iLok. If you missed...




synthandsoftware.com


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## Nickie Fønshauge (Mar 11, 2021)

A couple of enlightening posts from Daniel Spreadbury on the Dorico forum:



> "We have already stated on several occasions that the change in license management system is not in any way connected to the introduction of subscription pricing. It is a change in license management technology, not our entire business model”





> “The new system will not use a hardware key of any kind, but it will require a periodic call to a license server on the Internet, unless you expressly choose an offline activation (for an air-gapped computer that cannot connect to the Internet).
> 
> However, it will not be required that you are connected to the Internet at all times when using the software, and although we don’t yet know what the interval for mandatory license checks will be, I would expect it to be in line with the policies followed by other software vendors. Microsoft requires you to reconnect once every 39 days; Adobe once every 99 days; PreSonus Sphere once every 3 days; EastWest ComposerCloud every 30 days; and so on.
> 
> ...


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 11, 2021)

"and although we don’t yet know what the interval for mandatory license checks will be"

And that will be a problem for many strict offline users. 
Some just cant or want to put a renewal file on an usb stick or else to activate it somewhere else.

Its a bye for me :|


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## Tronam (Mar 11, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> "and although we don’t yet know what the interval for mandatory license checks will be"
> 
> And that will be a problem for many strict offline users.
> Some just cant or want to put a renewal file on an usb stick or else to activate it somewhere else.
> ...


In that same reply they mention "expressly choosing an offline activation", so I don't think we can draw conclusions yet on what all of the licensing options are going to be until the details are actually unveiled.


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## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> "and although we don’t yet know what the interval for mandatory license checks will be"
> 
> And that will be a problem for many strict offline users.
> Some just cant or want to put a renewal file on an usb stick or else to activate it somewhere else.
> ...



Like it or not, the "strict offline user" is not very common. I've had my machines online as a DAW since 1995 or so and I've never had issues. For a company to dumb down their copy protection to offline only is very problematic.


----------



## DovesGoWest (Mar 11, 2021)

I hope Steinberg doesn’t go with ‘code meter’ I had that forced on me with VPS Avenger and its a PIA. Basically you get a 3 month license and then have to reconnect it to download another 3 month license


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## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

DovesGoWest said:


> I hope Steinberg doesn’t go with ‘code meter’ I had that forced on me with VPS Avenger and its a PIA. Basically you get a 3 month license and then have to reconnect it to download another 3 month license



3 months honestly is not that bad though for someone who wants to keep offline, better than hours/days

BUT!

Think of it this way from the software developer point of view: One person activating his license gets hacked (it happens all the freaking time!) you see a seller on eBay selling a great library for sale, you buy it (you should never), it works, 2 months later it's invalidated)

That developer wastes man hours on support for software that was never bought from that person.


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## LynxUK (Mar 11, 2021)

"PreSonus Sphere once every 3 days" thats incorrect...its 30 days.


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## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

LynxUK said:


> "PreSonus Sphere once every 3 days" thats incorrect...its 30 days.



That's correct!


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## Quasar (Mar 11, 2021)

EgM said:


> Like it or not, the "strict offline user" is not very common. I've had my machines online as a DAW since 1995 or so and I've never had issues. For a company to dumb down their copy protection to offline only is very problematic.


No.


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## Polkasound (Mar 11, 2021)

EgM said:


> Like it or not, the "strict offline user" is not very common.


You are right, but people who want their files and usage data 100% private and protected should be able to make that choice, _especially_ these days. If a software company needs to access my hard drive in order for me to keep using their software, then I'm not going to use their software. It's that simple.


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## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

Quasar said:


> No.



I know your stance @Quasar


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## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> You are right, but people who want their files and usage data 100% private and protected should be able to make that choice, _especially_ these days. If a software company needs to access my hard drive in order for me to keep using their software, then I'm not going to use their software. It's that simple.



This is another whole can of worms, I've been using/developing software for over 35 years and I have accepted reluctantly that I have no control over privacy while using the current operating systems.

Don't get me wrong, parts of me wants to be that fighting spirit that once used DOS 2/C64/ATARI800XL who had TOTAL and I do mean TOTAL control over their machines! But this is not how it works anymore.

What you're asking is Windows 98 era privacy policy. And even then they were sued!


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## dzilizzi (Mar 11, 2021)

DovesGoWest said:


> I hope Steinberg doesn’t go with ‘code meter’ I had that forced on me with VPS Avenger and its a PIA. Basically you get a 3 month license and then have to reconnect it to download another 3 month license


I have my Reason license on codemeter. It doesn't require a lot of reconnecting.


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## dzilizzi (Mar 11, 2021)

EgM said:


> This is another whole can of worms, I've been using/developing software for over 35 years and I have accepted reluctantly that I have no control over privacy while using the current operating systems.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, parts of me wants to be that fighting spirit that once used DOS 2/C64/ATARI800XL who had TOTAL and I do mean TOTAL control over their machines! But this is not how it works anymore.
> 
> What you're asking is Windows 98 era privacy policy. And even then they were sued!


I think this is more for the big studios and people who work on films. A lot of time the contracts require the working DAW to be off-line for security reasons.


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## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I think this is more for the big studios and people who work on films. A lot of time the contracts require the working DAW to be off-line for security reasons.


Alright, valid


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## Polkasound (Mar 11, 2021)

EgM said:


> This is another whole can of worms, I've been using/developing software for over 35 years and I have accepted reluctantly that I have no control over privacy while using the current operating systems.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, parts of me wants to be that fighting spirit that once used DOS 2/C64/ATARI800XL who had TOTAL and I do mean TOTAL control over their machines! But this is not how it works anymore.
> 
> What you're asking is Windows 98 era privacy policy. And even then they were sued!


I understand everything is moving farther and farther away from privacy, but I still have the fighting spirit to maintain mine. After I installed Windows 10 on a PC last year, I spent days in the registry modifying everything needed to keep Microsoft out of my business. I don't have a Facebook account. I don't have a Google account. I don't use phone apps. I don't use rewards cards. I pay for everything with cash. I browse with ghosting extensions through a VPN. It's not easy living this way in 2021, but it's simply not in my nature to devaluate my privacy even when the rest of the modern world expects me to.


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## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

Polkasound said:


> I understand everything is moving farther and farther away from privacy, but I still have the fighting spirit to maintain mine. After I installed Windows 10 on a PC last year, I spent days in the registry modifying everything needed to keep Microsoft out of my business. I don't have a Facebook account. I don't have a Google account. I don't use phone apps. I don't use rewards cards. I pay for everything with cash. I browse with ghosting extensions through a VPN. It's not easy living this way in 2021, but it's simply not in my nature to devaluate my privacy even when the rest of the modern world expects me to.



I respect your drive @Polkasound , I really do. But myself, I don't have that passion and I'm not sure many of us do when the number one passion we have is writing music and not stopping for bulls*. 

w/love


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## EgM (Mar 11, 2021)

EgM said:


> I respect your drive @Polkasound , I really do. But myself, I don't have that passion and I'm not sure many of us do when the number one passion we have is writing music and not stopping for bulls*.
> 
> w/love



I'll tell you this though @Polkasound, I'm on Windows 10, 1803 frozen in time. I have updates inactive using group policy, defender intactive (through GP) and all other reporting stuff disabled as well. I have to say that my machine NEVER talks to me regarding updates, reports, or anything else so it -almost- feels as if I'm offline 

But I totally understand how you feel. I hate the way we use an operating system today!


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## Quasar (Mar 11, 2021)

EgM said:


> I know your stance @Quasar


Yes.


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## JamieLang (Mar 12, 2021)

I still think the NOT trivial part of this is that all Cubase versions prior to them implementing this will need an eLiscenser, which will no longer be updated for new OS revisions. Means that you now ARE going to be using the current'ish version of Cubase....and purchasing that license will no longer entitle your to run down-level versions as needed. That means buying v12 (just assuming that's whne this shows up)--you literally have ONE version you can run.

Privacy isn't my concern...unless they're actually taking significant data I've seen no evidence of.... It's that sometimes I need to use an old machine for something, and I CAN...with my 10.5 elicenser. I am NOT convinced that 10.5 is the best Cubase engine for all users. It's too new. They've made the compensation engine trickier--a 1sec latent plug in on the drum bus no does NOT delay input. I need to run some tests--but, I don't do hardware inserts any more. 

Suffice to say v6 was tight AF-better than MOST MODERN DAWS at that one thing-it's why I used it so long when I HAD racks of analog gear. Nothing other than Avid running EXPENSIVE Avid hardware could touch it. This new engine has a lot of things that make me wonder if they haven't let that slide a little to make the MIDI crowd happy with less latency...

I don't like the idea of abandoning the PAST market leading software. Part of the reason I've stuck with Cubase is I can run it on WHATEVER I have...they were SO mature so long ago...in terms of audio engine AND midi sequencer...that they might find themselves in position of Fender and amps--the biggest competition for a new Fender Deluxe are the 23 million used Fender Deluxes. You know?


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## Andy_P (Mar 12, 2021)

E licencer, most of the time worked flawlessly except a couple of incidents lately. I do not believe these are not easy to solve problems and not a reason to risk the copy protection which worked well till now with something new.
What I think lies behind is to make Cubase more available and easier to get and used wherever you are like all other DAWs, but Steinberg should do more than that to gain mass market interest again. Currently its fate lies in the hands of orchestral and media composers. Unfortunately younger generation and internet fame has no idea about Cubase.


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## greggybud (Mar 12, 2021)

EgM said:


> Like it or not, the "strict offline user" is not very common. I've had my machines online as a DAW since 1995 or so and I've never had issues. For a company to dumb down their copy protection to offline only is very problematic.


It's been a while, but I was told by one major VST developer, that off-line users account for about 5%.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 13, 2021)

EgM said:


> Like it or not, the "strict offline user" is not very common. I've had my machines online as a DAW since 1995 or so and I've never had issues. For a company to dumb down their copy protection to offline only is very problematic.


Well my iLok is offline, and i like it. Yea, U-He is crying in pain,... maybe.

I see the main problem with people have to be online then all the time , and dont have a secure OS set up.
Btw. In Germany, Internet can be hell if you dont live in a city. Some people i know just have bad or no connection at all....


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## RogiervG (Mar 13, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Well my iLok is offline, and i like it. Yea, U-He is crying in pain,... maybe.
> 
> I see the main problem with people have to be online then all the time , and dont have a secure OS set up.
> Btw. In Germany, Internet can be hell if you dont live in a city. Some people i know just have bad or no connection at all....


What has U-He to do with this dongle debate?


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 13, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> What has U-He to do with this dongle debate?


That its possible to be hasslefree by staying offline.

Steinberg should reinvent this deadproof protection:


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