# For anybody scared: Ryzen 3900X



## John Longley (Jan 8, 2020)

I built a new rig just before Christmas based on this CPU and I wanted to let people know the performance has been fantastic with large gains from my older 8700K. I've seen Cubase performance scale well and it's been very smooth. Much easier to cool as well.

Any other users with this hardware or the newer 3950x here?


----------



## cpaf (Jan 9, 2020)

How is the multi-core utilization in Cubase with the Ryzen vs your old Intel?


----------



## John Longley (Jan 9, 2020)

cpaf said:


> How is the multi-core utilization in Cubase with the Ryzen vs your old Intel?


I have no objective data, all I can say is that I have subjectively way more ASIO headroom in the project at the same buffer. Cores are balanced well, with all cores working. Of course it is never perfect because of the Windows scheduler, AMD chipset and the ASIO spec all competing. 

The 8700K was a decent chip-- I had a mild 4.8 Ghz full time OC and the 3900X destroys it in general. IPC and cache leave it behind. I was worried about the latency concerns from the last gen, but this is a very, very solid chip. I haven't had an AMD since the Athlon XP days but I am glad I took the dive. 

Currently only have 64 GB Ram, but am doubling now that the system has been tested.


----------



## sathyva (Jan 9, 2020)

The Ryzen is a 16 cores processor right ? 
Hope the 16 cores of my new Mac Pro will bring better performances in Cubase 10 as well.
Testing next week...


----------



## John Longley (Jan 9, 2020)

sathyva said:


> The Ryzen is a 16 cores processor right ?
> Hope the 16 cores of my new Mac Pro will bring better performances in Cubase 10 as well.
> Testing next week...


3900X is 12. New threadripper is insane at 64 cores and I think the 3950x is 16. It's a good time to build lol


----------



## sathyva (Jan 9, 2020)

64 ??? God !


----------



## shomynik (Jan 9, 2020)

Thx for reporting. What mobo did you get? What about that small mobo fan - is it loud?


----------



## John Longley (Jan 9, 2020)

shomynik said:


> Thx for reporting. What mobo did you get? What about that small mobo fan - is it loud?


I got the Aorus X570 Pro Wifi. The chipset/M.2 fan is not detectable even when on. The whole rig is on air and noise is solid with my Noctua dual fan cooler providing a small baseline woosh. You also have access to that small fan in UEFI in case you wanted to set a custom curve.


----------



## shomynik (Jan 9, 2020)

John Longley said:


> I got the Aorus X570 Pro Wifi. The chipset/M.2 fan is not detectable even when on. The whole rig is on air and noise is solid with my Noctua dual fan cooler providing a small baseline woosh. You also have access to that small fan in UEFI in case you wanted to set a custom curve.


Great to hear that. Thanks.


----------



## JeffvR (Jan 9, 2020)

Good to hear! I'm planning on building a 3950x soon. 256GB possible and probably faster than the insanely expensive Mac Pro


----------



## John Longley (Jan 9, 2020)

JeffvR said:


> Good to hear! I'm planning on building a 3950x soon. 256GB possible and probably faster than the insanely expensive Mac Pro


I would have grabbed the 3950x but they were impossible to get in stock at the time. I think you'll enjoy it!


----------



## easyrider (Jan 11, 2020)

3900x here on a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro.

Using a 280mm Corsair AIO 

Brilliant chip


----------



## Quasar (Jan 11, 2020)

As these sorts of end-user reports trickle in, I get more confident in going AMD when I rebuild. Thanks for posting your experience.


----------



## easyrider (Jan 11, 2020)

Quasar said:


> As these sorts of end-user reports trickle in, I get more confident in going AMD when I rebuild. Thanks for posting your experience.


8 cores 16 threads is so yesteryear


----------



## Quasar (Jan 11, 2020)

easyrider said:


> 8 cores 16 threads is so yesteryear


I agree. It's, like, so August 2019, man...


----------



## Wunderhorn (Jan 11, 2020)

John Longley said:


> New threadripper is insane at 64 cores



I only wish you could stuff that thing into a Mac Pro 2019. I'd so be gunning for that...!


----------



## John Longley (Jan 11, 2020)

Wunderhorn said:


> I only wish you could stuff that thing into a Mac Pro 2019. I'd so be gunning for that...!


I wonder how far down the road Apple have gone on their rumoured ARM CPUs for the highend lines... with the work AMD has done, entertaining whoever provides the best cpu at the price point would be super wise and be a win for everybody. People are already running vanilla Ryzen hackintoshes (not worth it for me), so we can see it could work easily.


----------



## Wunderhorn (Jan 11, 2020)

John Longley said:


> I wonder how far down the road Apple have gone on their rumoured ARM CPUs for the highend lines... with the work AMD has done, entertaining whoever provides the best cpu at the price point would be super wise and be a win for everybody. People are already running vanilla hackintoshes (not worth it for me), so we can see it could work easily.



It remains to be seen if Intel actually lost their crown for good.
A glance towards the past shows us that once before Apple showed loyalty to a dead horse for too long (PowerPC), ending up offering under-powered machines that could not compete well against the rest... I only hope this won't repeat.
Yeah, hackintoshes are no-go for me. I have no patience with all the fiddling and I want to know that the next generation of the MacOS is supported which is something that nobody in the hackintosh community would ever be able to sign in blood.


----------



## Jediwario1 (Jan 11, 2020)

Could you list your computer parts please.

I'm planning on building my first pc this year and I'm torn between the trusted 9900k or AMD's Zen 2.


----------



## Quasar (Jan 11, 2020)

John Longley said:


> I wonder how far down the road Apple have gone on their rumoured ARM CPUs for the highend lines... with the work AMD has done, entertaining whoever provides the best cpu at the price point would be super wise and be a win for everybody. People are already running vanilla Ryzen hackintoshes (not worth it for me), so we can see it could work easily.


Ryzen Hackintosh? Really? News to me and interesting. I've long had the idea of assembling a Hackintosh on the back-burner, because, like many, I like MacOS but despise the direction Apple hardware has taken the past several years. But if I ever do decide to tackle this, it would only be for fun & knowledge, for an inexpensive general use computer anyway, and I don't need one.


----------



## Allen Constantine (Jan 11, 2020)

John Longley said:


> I built a new rig just before Christmas based on this CPU and I wanted to let people know the performance has been fantastic with large gains from my older 8700K. I've seen Cubase performance scale well and it's been very smooth. Much easier to cool as well.
> 
> Any other users with this hardware or the newer 3950x here?



Thanks for sharing! Planning to switch from Intel to AMD 3900x


----------



## John Longley (Jan 11, 2020)

Quasar said:


> Ryzen Hackintosh? Really? News to me and interesting. I've long had the idea of assembling a Hackintosh on the back-burner, because, like many, I like MacOS but despise the direction Apple hardware has taken the past several years. But if I ever do decide to tackle this, it would only be for fun & knowledge, for an inexpensive general use computer anyway, and I don't need one.


Yes a "vanilla" kernel version was posted a few months ago which means clean installs are happening relatively easily with much less patching. I ran a hack multiple times but I'm happy with Win 10 Pro and I don't need logic anymore as Cubase is in a good place. Once a hack is up and running it's great but I don't miss the hoop jumping on mac os updates. Which is an issue even on real macs often.


----------



## John Longley (Jan 11, 2020)

Jediwario1 said:


> Could you list your computer parts please.
> 
> I'm planning on building my first pc this year and I'm torn between the trusted 9900k or AMD's Zen 2.


Aorus Pro Wifi, 64 GB Balistix ram at 3200 I think, crucial M.2 1TB, 2x 1 TB SSDs (I think both crucial), 700GB SSD (micron), and 3x spinners. Win 10 Pro with current patch. Runing RME hardware

Edit: GPU is a 590


----------



## easyrider (Jan 11, 2020)

Jediwario1 said:


> Could you list your computer parts please.
> 
> I'm planning on building my first pc this year and I'm torn between the trusted 9900k or AMD's Zen 2.



Ryzen 3900X
Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro
64 GB G Skill Flare X DDR4 3200mhz
1 TB Samsung 970 EVO NVMe OS Drive
2 TB Crucial BX 500 SSD
2 TB Crucial BX 500 SSD
GTX 1080
Windows 10 pro


----------



## chimuelo (Jan 11, 2020)

I’m loving the loving of AMD.
You know the party is coming to an end when you keep making up excuses of why you use an Intel CPU.
If my synths weren’t core locked I’d already be using a Ryzen.

My i7 4790k @ stock 4GHz gives me everything I need so my next upgrade is going to be a schmorgasbord.

Hopefully Zebra3 comes out so I can use more cores.
I already started running Keyscape separate from Omnisphere.
I heard slight distortion on big layers which I think was my CPU being stoked.
Outside of Omnisphere it doesn’t get the barely audible distortion.

I would love an Octa Core, lots of cache and stock 4GHz Ryzen Vermeer.
The IPC should be fine tuned enough that speed isn’t as important as on Intel CPUs.

Thanks for sharing


----------



## jcrosby (Jan 12, 2020)

Wunderhorn said:


> It remains to be seen if Intel actually lost their crown for good.
> A glance towards the past shows us that once before Apple showed loyalty to a dead horse for too long (PowerPC), ending up offering under-powered machines that could not compete well against the rest... I only hope this won't repeat.
> Yeah, hackintoshes are no-go for me. I have no patience with all the fiddling and I want to know that the next generation of the MacOS is supported which is something that nobody in the hackintosh community would ever be able to sign in blood.


Considering macOS doesn't officially support AMD, yet AMD now generally runs about as well as intel does in terms of a _hackintosh_ I disagree.

And, between thermal issues, various bugs many models have had somewhere along the way with the T2 chip, and misc quirky hardware issues; Apple is every bit as incapable of_ signing_ anything_ in blood. _Certainly not in terms of a configuration they'll currently support with the same enthusiasm as something they made only a short 5 years ago ...

My hackintosh has been no less stable, (and in many instances more stable), than any current mac I own. 5 years ago I would have said otherwise, truly.. But AFAIC Apple's moving in the wrong direction.

On one hand they put out a pretty powerful machine users can upgrade and service themselves for the most part; (as if this is some kind of miracle to ask for); on the other hand they release it with its most restrictive OS to date, that so far still presents compatibility challenges for a good number of developers. (Not to mention the cost gets handed down to you in the form of replacing or upgrading software and/or hardware that otherwise ran fine under 10.14.6)

IMO that's a pretty good sign that while Apple can still make a decent piece of hardware, they grow ever more backward in terms of understanding _*what*_ the person buying that machine _*actually*_ expects it to be able to run.

As for signing in blood, Apple seems more likely to expect you to pay in blood as of late. (I say this as someone with 3 currently working macs, ((and 1 hackintosh)). AFAICT, while the hardware engineers may be attempting to keep up, (and generally have done a *decent* job); the corporate side is winning out in the form of an OS that defeats the needs of many users whom the current _top-shelf _machines would otherwise appeal to.

Anyway rant over... Carry on...


----------



## Olfirf (Jan 12, 2020)

I read from other people switching to AMD problems with Cubase not working well with it. It is a matter of the software being optimized for intel and not amd, though. The more people will buy AMD options, the more software developers will test these configurations and take them seriously. My next VEpro machine is probably gonna be a high core count AMD PC. I might wait for Ryzen 3, though ...


----------



## Guy Rowland (Jan 12, 2020)

Olfirf said:


> I read from other people switching to AMD problems with Cubase not working well with it. It is a matter of the software being optimized for intel and not amd, though. The more people will buy AMD options, the more software developers will test these configurations and take them seriously. My next VEpro machine is probably gonna be a high core count AMD PC. I might wait for Ryzen 3, though ...



Yes, I've read the same thing. I'd like to see some detailed Cubase-specific tests before migrating, but the OP's experiences are encouraging.


----------



## dadadave (Jan 12, 2020)

Olfirf said:


> I read from other people switching to AMD problems with Cubase not working well with it. It is a matter of the software being optimized for intel and not amd, though. The more people will buy AMD options, the more software developers will test these configurations and take them seriously. My next VEpro machine is probably gonna be a high core count AMD PC. I might wait for Ryzen 3, though ...



As far as I'm aware, it's not do much a problem with AMD per se, but with high core counts. Which the new Ryzen chips have. But the same issue occurs with intel HEDT chips, iirc


----------



## Ben (Jan 12, 2020)

Question for the people using 3rd Gen Ryzen: are you are using the local NUMA mode, and are you using any other tweaks in the bios? If so what tweaks and how did these changes influence your performance and system latency? 
Many thanks!


----------



## Technostica (Jan 12, 2020)

Ben said:


> Question for the people using 3rd Gen Ryzen: are you are using the local NUMA mode, and are you using any other tweaks in the bios?


3rd Gen Ryzen and Threadripper don't use NUMA at all as all the I/O is on a separate single I/O die.
So the only NUMA left with Zen 2 platforms is the dual socket EPYC boards.
I don't think 1st or 2nd gen Ryzen used NUMA either as wasn't that just Threadripper gen 1 and 2?

EDIT: Amended for accuracy removing my errors.


----------



## stigc56 (Jan 12, 2020)

I build a new PC Slave some days ago. I went for the Intel i9 and a Gigabyte motherboard with Thunderbolt 3, 64 gb ram and 4 tb SSD. This was recommended by Morgonaut 
She has a lot to say about Hackintosh!
After my current project I will try to turn my new PC into a Hackintosh.!


----------



## Ben (Jan 12, 2020)

Technostica said:


> I don't think 1st or 2nd gen Ryzen used NUMA either as wasn't that just Threadripper gen 1?


Just looked it up, it was Threadripper Gen 2.
At the moment I don't have that much time to test these things myself, but I think I will buy an AMD processor this year. Just the possible memory latency penalty because of the chiplet design scares me a little bit.


----------



## Technostica (Jan 12, 2020)

Ben said:


> Just looked it up, it was Threadripper Gen 2.
> At the moment I don't have that much time to test these things myself, but I think I will buy an AMD processor this year. Just the possible memory latency penalty because of the chiplet design scares me a little bit.


It was both gen 1 and gen 2 that used NUMA as they both used variants of Zen 1; Zen and Zen+ respectively.
I'd forgotten there was a generation of TR with Zen+ as EPYC bypassed it.
Any single socket Zen 2 system is UMA not NUMA.


----------



## easyrider (Jan 12, 2020)

Ben said:


> Just looked it up, it was Threadripper Gen 2.
> At the moment I don't have that much time to test these things myself, but I think I will buy an AMD processor this year. Just the possible memory latency penalty because of the chiplet design scares me a little bit.



That was a factor in say the 1700x 2700x Ryzen chips...However the 3700x and up have addressed these issues....I bought. 9900k, had it a month then sold it for a 3900x and haven’t looked back...The 3900x is a gem of a chip...Now all the Bios updates and AMD drivers have been rolled out.

There are some legendary cpus that have appeared over the years...The AMD Opteron 170, The Intel Q6600...

The 3900x is one of those chips...staggering value and superb grunt.


----------



## Quasar (Jan 12, 2020)

Olfirf said:


> I read from other people switching to AMD problems with Cubase not working well with it. It is a matter of the software being optimized for intel and not amd, though. The more people will buy AMD options, the more software developers will test these configurations and take them seriously. My next VEpro machine is probably gonna be a high core count AMD PC. I might wait for Ryzen 3, though ...


I've never used Cubase, but have read about a 14 core limit or something... What does it mean to say that software is optimized for a CPU or a particular company's line of CPUs? Software operates within an OS, so, intuitively, I would think that as long as the OS is compatible with the hardware then it's a question of optimizing software and drivers to run in Windows 10, Catalina or whatever, not an issue of CPU brand. Just asking.


----------



## easyrider (Jan 12, 2020)

Quasar said:


> I've never used Cubase, but have read about a 14 core limit or something... What does it mean to say that software is optimized for a CPU or a particular company's line of CPUs? Software operates within an OS, so, intuitively, I would think that as long as the OS is compatible with the hardware then it's a question of optimizing software and drivers to run in Windows 10, Catalina or whatever, not an issue of CPU brand. Just asking.



That versions prior to Cubase 10









Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups


This article refers to Cubase versions prior to Cubase 10 only.Cubase 10 is automatically adapting the amount of real-time threads to the system. As of Windows 10, the amount of real-time process...




helpcenter.steinberg.de


----------



## Novatlan Sound (Jan 12, 2020)

Yeah, that mainly applied to Cubase before 10, but I also see a god chunk worse ASIO performance than I'd expect with a lot of cores (3970X).
It might be down to non-optimized chipsets drivers and might improve with new drivers, we'll see.
But for example Reaper or Studio One work much better with few tracks for me than Cubase, which was not the case on my previous system (i7 3930K).
I'm not super concerned as VE Pro seems to scale quite well, and that's my main goal.


----------



## pderbidge (Sep 1, 2020)

Wunderhorn said:


> It remains to be seen if Intel actually lost their crown for good.
> A glance towards the past shows us that once before Apple showed loyalty to a dead horse for too long (PowerPC), ending up offering under-powered machines that could not compete well against the rest... I only hope this won't repeat.
> Yeah, hackintoshes are no-go for me. I have no patience with all the fiddling and I want to know that the next generation of the MacOS is supported which is something that nobody in the hackintosh community would ever be able to sign in blood.


I agree. Currently I went for a New AMD build and it's been great but I contracted with Intel years ago working with developers to optimize their code (I'm not a coder, just the guy who coordinated efforts) for the Intel architecture. At that time, AMD Opteron became a real threat to Intel. If Intel's culture is the same today as it was then, they aren't taking this lightly and will find a way to crush AMD. Having said that there are some dynamics that have changed since then. More and more industries are looking for ways to be more mobile and are relying more and more on cloud solutions than heavy power machines. From what I can tell, Intel is pushing more and more in this direction. For us VI folks it's tough because we still require some heavy handed machines to deal with all our sample libraries but other producers, beat makers, sync licensing composers don't need that same power and therefore will opt for the convenience of mobility over power. Because of this, it may be the AMD will be the best option for people like us in the foreseeable future but eventually the desire to be more mobile will become a necessity to our community as well, if it isn't already happening and by then Intel will be ahead of AMD in that technology and will become the obvious choice. Those are just observations but I have not real "intel" (excuse the pun) on what either company is focusing on for future developments.


----------



## benenemy (Sep 10, 2020)

Hello, 
I'm totally new to building Pc, I was interested in the Ryzen 2700x since it's a little cheaper... I want to build a slave pc for VEP7 but it does not have to be state of the art... I'm not a composer but I'd like to run all my kontakt with spitfire and synths from another computer.

I read that the latency problem you refer has been corrected with a bios update. So would it be a good buy. The 2700x are cheaper and more in my budget.

Thank you very much for you time
Ben


----------



## Ben (Sep 10, 2020)

Hi,

The AMD Ryzen 3 release conference was announced: 2020-10-08
So if not absolutely necessary I would wait and see what's being announced, and even if you want to buy older CPUs, you will bprobably get them cheaper after the conference.

Best, Ben


----------



## benenemy (Sep 10, 2020)

Wow, That's good to know!!!
Thank you very much, I will wait for sure.

I was interested in the 2700x but when I saw this thread... which I don't fully understand... it did put a little break on my desires.

Thank you for the hint, I will wait for October


----------



## John Longley (Sep 10, 2020)

benenemy said:


> Hello,
> I'm totally new to building Pc, I was interested in the Ryzen 2700x since it's a little cheaper... I want to build a slave pc for VEP7 but it does not have to be state of the art... I'm not a composer but I'd like to run all my kontakt with spitfire and synths from another computer.
> 
> I read that the latency problem you refer has been corrected with a bios update. So would it be a good buy. The 2700x are cheaper and more in my budget.
> ...


Hey, I have not used the lower series Ryzen chips, I only have a 3900x and a 3950x. In general, the Ryzen chips perform very well, but I can't speak to that chip.


----------



## benenemy (Sep 10, 2020)

Thank you for sharing your experience!!


----------

