# Dark Waters (HS+HB)



## José Herring (May 1, 2012)

Your impressions please  

Original:

http://soundcloud.com/jherringmusic/dark-waters

Revised:

http://soundcloud.com/jherringmusic/dark-waters-r2


----------



## jamwerks (May 1, 2012)

Nice work, and nice atmosphere.

One comment on the mix: the triangle seems to close to me, and lacking the room sound of the rest of the instruments !


----------



## José Herring (May 1, 2012)

Hmmm.. I'll check the triangle out. It was suppose to be recorded in a hall with built in ambiance. Maybe I need to run it through the verb too.

best,

José


----------



## Farkle (May 2, 2012)

Mmmm, very nice, creepy vibe. Reminds me a bit of Silvestri's music from "What Lies Beneath".

The mix is very clear, and very Hollywood'y. The opening string line melody, from :05 to :24, feels a bit "thin", maybe give it a bit of an inflator/warmer on the violin track to analogue/grit it up?

At 1:18, you have this nice texture, with the brass holding chords, etc. You might try doubling the horns with clarinets there, to thicken the texture (Silvestri does that all the time!).

Jose, it's a killer track, really captures that Hollywood sound. And those arpeggios at the end are totally awesome!

Mike


----------



## José Herring (May 2, 2012)

You've hit upon the only problem I have with HS Gold. Isolated the violins sound a bit thin, but with other instruments playing they sound just right. 

Beefing it up with woodwinds was my next idea. I usually don't like sampled woodwinds so I don't use them, but I do play clarinet so it might be worth it to try to find a way to blend that in.

thx for listening.

José


----------



## RiffWraith (May 2, 2012)

Not going to comment on the soud quality, but the peice is lovely. Nice writing and atmosphere.



josejherring @ Wed May 02 said:


> Beefing it up with woodwinds was my next idea.



Definitely. For starters, the violin lines in the beginning should definitely be doubled with flute, or oboe. Or both.

At 1:16, the volume/intensity should come up some. This may be as simple as just bringing the faders up - or maybe the master fader a couple/three db.

After that point, the strings could benefit from CC work (are those DYN patches?) or at least some fader moves. As they are now, the strings are at about the same intensity for the entire bow; it would be better if that were altered to add some cresc and dim.

I dont have a problem with the triangle - it sounds fine.

Didn't care for the tymp cresc patch . Do you have another you can use there?

Are those bass pizz I hear towards the end? I like that there, but they need to be reinforced with, again, some woods. C-Bassoon, bassoon, bass clarinet will all work well there.

Good work!

Cheers.


----------



## José Herring (May 2, 2012)

_
Definitely. For starters, the violin lines in the beginning should definitely be doubled with flute, or oboe. Or both. _

I go back and forth about that. It's actually a very personal piece and I wanted the begining to be totally stark to capture a certain mood. Doubling with ww would be more standard, but I'm just not sure yet.
_
After that point, the strings could benefit from CC work (are those DYN patches?) or at least some fader moves. As they are now, the strings are at about the same intensity for the entire bow; it would be better if that were altered to add some cresc and dim. _

Of course they are dynamic patches. I don't use anything else. There's actually quite a lot of dynamic cc going on. So I'm not sure I follow here. I didn't want it to sound seasaw so I restrained it, but there's a lot going on.

_Didn't care for the timp cresc patch . Do you have another you can use there? _

I always just play in timp cres as the little prefabbed or crossfaded patches never seem to fit right. I could probably smooth it out a bit.

_Are those bass pizz I hear towards the end? I like that there, but they need to be reinforced with, again, some woods. C-Bassoon, bassoon, bass clarinet will all work well there. _

Not to be mean, but I'm starting to just say what's on my mind these days. That would sound totally ridiculous in this context. But, I am game to adding more woodwinds. I'll just have to get over my sampled ww aversion. :lol: 

But since this is an experimental piece for me to try new things harmonically and melodically, I'll take each of your points as with everybody else and give it a go.

Thx for the comments.

best,

José


----------



## Gusfmm (May 2, 2012)

Jose,

Composition is nice and interesting, left me wanting to hear more. 

I'd agree with Jeff on the timpany sound, not the best. But I'd disagree on the amount of CC riding, I think it's got more than enough, at times a bit too much that probably makes a point or two in the piece sound beyond how the orchestra would probably have sounded, maybe. Last observation would be on the final arpeggios on the strings, I'd look to use a more legato sound, the individual notes sound very discrete, separated; may be add a quick porta here or there, or try a sul patch in-between some of the same string intervals here and there to create more diversity. Makes sense? Great job!


----------



## José Herring (May 2, 2012)

Gusfmm @ Wed May 02 said:


> Jose,
> 
> Composition is nice and interesting, left me wanting to hear more.
> 
> I'd agree with Jeff on the timpany sound, not the best. But I'd disagree on the amount of CC riding, I think it's got more than enough, at times a bit too much that probably makes a point or two in the piece sound beyond how the orchestra would probably have sounded, maybe. Last observation would be on the final arpeggios on the strings, I'd look to use a more legato sound, the individual notes sound very discrete, separated; may be add a quick porta here or there, or try a sul patch in-between some of the same string intervals here and there to create more diversity. Makes sense? Great job!



I don't know who you are but this is immensely astute critique. Thank you.

As far as the string arpeggios you have to believe me when I say that getting it this far has stretched my programming chops to the limit. Doing what you're suggesting is pretty advanced. But, I'm going to give it a shot. Make take me a while.

In the meantime here's another version with ww added and with the dynamics more constrained:

http://soundcloud.com/jherringmusic/dark-waters-r2

btw, I think this is the last time I use soundcloud.


----------



## Gusfmm (May 2, 2012)

josejherring @ Wed May 02 said:


> I don't know who you are but this is immensely astute critique. Thank you.



Just Gustavo, Jose, glad to be able to share some thoughts.




josejherring @ Wed May 02 said:


> In the meantime here's another version with ww added and with the dynamics more constrained:
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/jherringmusic/dark-waters-r2



Definitely like the new version better with the ww inclusion. I'd just fine-tune a tad further the strings in a couple of points should your goal be to try to make it sound more real. But it is a very nice creation as-is!

p.s. just another thought, making the around 1:54 the high intensity point (crecendo) in the cue, right before the final, as an stylistic touch maybe...


----------



## choc0thrax (May 2, 2012)

Very nice, Jose. Really liking this one.

If I ever need to look over microfiche while researching a small town's mysterious past, I'll make sure to put this on my Ipod.


----------



## José Herring (May 2, 2012)

Gusfmm, 

I'm digging through the manual tonight to try and figure out how to use the port patches. I think the extra articulation will help with the realism.

Choco,

Funny you should mention it. But believe it or not a dark still river in my wife's home town is what this piece is about.


----------



## Christian Marcussen (May 2, 2012)

Very good Jose (listned to version 2). 

It's clear that lots of effort has been put into the programming - it shows


----------



## José Herring (May 3, 2012)

Thx for listening Christian.


----------



## chimuelo (May 3, 2012)

I think it's very good work, and I have nothing to add, except I thought as a way to fatten up string samples, I always use a an Analog hardware synth w/ matching envelopes ( ADSR ) and Saw waves. Works for me live as I have to do ELO on occasion and it really adds punch to the Marcatos and Sustains.
FWIW Gustavo is also a trained professional with DAW builds, and saved me from buying the wrong 1U HSF.
PLAY stuff sounds really good though the way you use it...

CiaoMein Cabrone... 8)


----------



## José Herring (May 3, 2012)

I've used the synth string technique plenty of times. I even have synth strings in my template. These days though I'm going less for the beefy strings sound and trying to get back to the ethereal strings sound that I truly prefer. HS Gold is about 1/2 way there. I think other mic position may help and the TJ trick of combining the mid tree mics with the divisi mics sounds like about 80% of the sound I'm after. 

Thx for listening Cabron!!


----------



## germancomponist (May 3, 2012)

This is very very nice, Jose!

I would like to have a download link to listen to it in my studio. (Maybe you will upload it at box.net with downloadoption?) 

One question: Have you experimented with different tempi? For my taste it could be a little bit slower, aspecially from 1.15 ... .

Again, a very nice piece!

Gunther


----------



## José Herring (May 3, 2012)

Thanks Gunther,

I could probably add a little rubato here and there to vary the tempo a bit, but I don't think I would make it any slower than it is.

Thanks for the input though.

best,

José


----------



## ryans (May 3, 2012)

Really good writing, nice mix...

I have to concur with the comment about a little more portamento on the arpeggios but that's likely just personal taste.

Great work.

Ryan


----------



## José Herring (May 3, 2012)

ryans @ Thu May 03 said:


> Really good writing, nice mix...
> 
> I have to concur with the comment about a little more portamento on the arpeggios but that's likely just personal taste.
> 
> ...



Thanks.

The port. comment was spot on. At least it got me to try the port patches in HS. Tastefully done it added a lot to the piece. I would post the results, but I figured people are getting tired of it by now. :lol:


----------



## Gusfmm (May 3, 2012)

You kidding? We said we wanted more!


----------



## José Herring (May 3, 2012)

Gusfmm @ Thu May 03 said:


> You kidding? We said we wanted more!



Ok. Later tonight I'll see if I can perfect the port patch and post a revision.

thx


----------



## chimuelo (May 3, 2012)

Chingalay...


----------



## José Herring (May 3, 2012)

Pendejo


----------



## José Herring (May 4, 2012)

Here's a version with the port patches. 

http://soundcloud.com/jherringmusic/dark-waters-r3

I can't decide if it added much but it def has a different character.

José


----------



## Gusfmm (May 4, 2012)

Jose, what you added you did with good taste, I like it. I'd still think the arpeggio runs could be a bit more connected, but I can't suggest how as I don't use HS. I may try to replicate a small piece tonight when back home with my stuff.


----------



## chimuelo (May 4, 2012)

I see what your getting at. Maybe this is why lots of guys have LASS and HS.
Sounds good though as is, but I can hear LASS connecting the notes using poly Portamento.

Chinga Cuñao


----------



## José Herring (May 4, 2012)

Gusfmm @ Fri May 04 said:


> Jose, what you added you did with good taste, I like it. I'd still think the arpeggio runs could be a bit more connected, but I can't suggest how as I don't use HS. I may try to replicate a small piece tonight when back home with my stuff.



I think it needs to be more smeared. LASS would certainly do it as it would have the ABC sections and you can offset the timings a bit. I think to do it with HS you'd have to add some solo strings or perhaps a section of LASS. Either way I can't think of any way to get it more smeary with just HS. I think that's the failing of a library that's recorded all in one sections.

I'll experiment today with adding so solo strings to see if that may help a bit. I have LASS LS maybe a section for there.

Thx, been very helpful.

José

edit: I just had another idea. HS has these runs patches that have a lot of smear in them. I might try those.

@Chimuelo,

Chupame


----------



## chimuelo (May 4, 2012)

Culo or Verga...? :lol: 

What is Smearing anyways, I never remember that used in Theory/Comp before.
I know my kids M Audio Delta card is smeary.
Smeary Strings though...?

What I like when using multiple instances of my XSample Fiddle for Jean Luc Echo/Phaser stuff, is having one instance w/PBend 1, 2nd instance w/PBend 2, so when I just nudge the wheel a little it gets wider.

LIke on the True analog synth where each Oscillator had sperate GLide amounts so when you did a Portamento it was like a string sction sliding I suppose, since each Oscillator (player) would arrive at ever so slightly different times, and just sounds bigger, wider. Is that kind of smeary...?

BTW I think this is great getting to hear how guys use different instruments, as it's nice discussing tricks of the trade, and getting to hear the Instrument used effectively which is what I prefer to a websites demos...

Thanks Again and HS does sound really sweet.


----------



## Daniel Silvestri (May 6, 2012)

I liked it :D


----------



## José Herring (May 6, 2012)

Thank you!


----------

