# Best Interface <500$ regarding VST Intruments/MixingMastering



## AACherokee (Jun 14, 2021)

Hello Everybody,

I searched the forum but didnt find a recent discussion fitting to my question. If I missed one, I aplogize directly 

What are the recommendations for a USB Audiointerface < 500$ mainly used with VST Instruments and Mixing/Mastering.

When looking at YT Videos and reading tests of various interfaces one of the main focus is always regarding (mic) Preamps. As I mainly just compose using VST Intruments and recording vocals/real instruments is <1% of my normal composing work, I am focused more on audioquality regarding what comes out of my headphones/speakers. Also of course latency is a topic that might make a difference

Thanks in advance


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## dcoscina (Jun 14, 2021)

I find the Steinberg UR series to be very good in that price bracket. Solid drivers, loopback audio capability, good sound. I also have a MOtU M2 but it’s buggy as hell.


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## bill5 (Jun 14, 2021)

I was going to include MOTU M2 until dcosina's comment. I know they had some driver issues with Windows when they first came out last year, but thought they were resolved. Anyway...

Any of these are very good and IMO would serve you well:

Steinberg UR22
Behringer UM2, Euphoria 202 or 204
FocusRite Solo or 2i2

Audients are nice also but IMO quite overpriced and sound no better. Also be aware of whether or not you want/need MIDI jacks; of those above, only the Steinberg and 204 have.


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## Jhickin (Aug 23, 2021)

Is there anything worth upgrading to from a Focusrite up to the £500 mark? I had an old 2i2 which died on me and since then Ive been using a Solo but now Im ready to upgrade, All the interfaces people on this forum recomend for VST composition seem to be either sub £200 or very high end RME interfaces


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## bill5 (Aug 23, 2021)

IMO doubtful, at least not in terms of quality.

What is it about your Solo that you feel is lacking that you need an upgrade?


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## dcoscina (Aug 23, 2021)

new Apogee Duet 3 dropped and it looks amazing. With the dock (I dislike the break out cables) it looks like a beast. I have an Apollo Twin Dual Core v2 but honestly, I don't use the plug ins... I'm an orchestral guy and never need all of them. I might jump at this Apogee myself. 

The M2 has a nice sound and operation but yeah, it seems buggy. :(


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## AceAudioHQ (Aug 23, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Behringer UM2, Euphoroia 202 or 204


I have the 204HD and I like it a lot, it has also received good reviews and beats some way more expensive interfaces. Low noise.


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## jcrosby (Aug 23, 2021)

Realistically your'e going to get essentially the same quality of audio out of any low-to-mid-priced audio interface. AD/DA quality even in the lower-to-medium price range nowadays is on par with AD/DA quality at the higher-ish range 18-20+ years ago (for the most part).... Any well known and widely used brand is fine...

Mic preamps, if anything, are where you'll hear an audible difference... If you don't do much/any recording I wouldn't overthink any claims that one interface sounds amazingly better than another.. In that case what you really want to research is what kind of latency you can achieve out of a given interface...


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## MartinH. (Aug 23, 2021)

Jhickin said:


> Is there anything worth upgrading to from a Focusrite up to the £500 mark? I had an old 2i2 which died on me and since then Ive been using a Solo but now Im ready to upgrade, All the interfaces people on this forum recomend for VST composition seem to be either sub £200 or very high end RME interfaces



I have a focusrite scarlett solo too and I'm thinking about upgrading. Anecdotally I read a report of someone with the same interface who switched to an Audient id4 and said the sound quality noticably improved. From what I read, it has better preamps too, which could be interesting for me when I record guitar DIs. Can anyone confirm that the Audient id4 is a step up from the Focusrite Scarlet Solo? And is it enough of a step up to justify the ~140,- Euro?


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## Tralen (Aug 23, 2021)

AceAudioHQ said:


> I have the 204HD and I like it a lot, it has also received good reviews and beats some way more expensive interfaces. Low noise.


I can say the same about the Uphoria 404HD. I was immensely surprised with the overall quality, and the Midas preamps are excellent.


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## bill5 (Aug 23, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> I have a focusrite scarlett solo too and I'm thinking about upgrading. Anecdotally I read a report of someone with the same interface who switched to an Audient id4 and said the sound quality noticably improved. From what I read, it has better preamps too, which could be interesting for me when I record guitar DIs. Can anyone confirm that the Audient id4 is a step up from the Focusrite Scarlet Solo? And is it enough of a step up to justify the ~140,- Euro?


IMO absolutely not. But the Audient gang are a bit cultish, you'll never convince them otherwise.


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## rnb_2 (Aug 23, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I also have a MOtU M2 but it’s buggy as hell.


I assume this is a Windows driver issue, as I haven't had any problems with the MOTU M2 on a Mac (just in case that's relevant for anyone checking the answers here).


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## Markrs (Aug 23, 2021)

I have the MOTU M2 for Windows for over a year and not had a single issue with it, it has been rock solid


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## AlexRuger (Aug 23, 2021)

RME BabyFace Pro, bought used. Found mine on Craigslist for $450.


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 23, 2021)

AlexRuger said:


> RME BabyFace Pro, bought used. Found mine on Craigslist for $450.


If you don’t mind the weird form factor than this is a good choice. Total non-starter for me.

Audient has a rep for suboptimal Windows drivers. Focusrite is “average” and good at everything without being great at anything (other than being good at everything).


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## Jhickin (Aug 24, 2021)

Currently between the MOTU m4 and Audient ID14 for me, i've heard a bit of talk about dodgy drivers for the MOTU's but also alot of praise in that regard also?
I like the Audient form factor, but no seperate volume for headphones (that I can see atleast) is a bit annoying. So currently leaning towards the M4. Planning on upgrading with 2x adam t8v's and a pair of Sennheiser HD 660s'. Good split of my budget? sorry if going a bit off topic.


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## Oxytoxine (Aug 24, 2021)

If you have a thunderbolt port, I can recommend the Clarett line from Focusrite. I get very low latency (i believe in fact even lower than the USB RMEs), it seems to be very stable, and the pres sound fine to my ear.


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## Jhickin (Aug 24, 2021)

Yeah, unfortunately thunderbolt isn't an option for me, what Clarett interface do you use out of interest?


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## R. Soul (Aug 24, 2021)

AlexRuger said:


> RME BabyFace Pro, bought used. Found mine on Craigslist for $450.


Yeah, got mine for around $520 on Ebay. 
Great condition as well, although that's obviously not guaranteed when buying 2nd hand. But it certainly beats anything new at that price.


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 24, 2021)

Jhickin said:


> Yeah, unfortunately thunderbolt isn't an option for me, what Clarett interface do you use out of interest?


I know it wasn't directed at me, but I have a Clarett4pre. It's really good - a step up, but not a big step, from the Scarlett. Same drivers, though. In other words, "average" latency vs. the competition. Thunderbolt latency was better than average, from what I read.

The new Ultralite m5 looks very interesting, and may have been one I'd tried instead of the Clarett had it been out when I made my purchase.

I'll just echo again though, that if the Baby Face Pro form factor and I/O allocation works for you, picking one of those up used would be the way to go because of the lower latency.


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## Oxytoxine (Aug 24, 2021)

Jhickin said:


> Yeah, unfortunately thunderbolt isn't an option for me, what Clarett interface do you use out of interest?


Just the 2pre to take with me on the road. Strange - I see that they have only the USB versions listed, maybe the thunderbolt version is not available anymore? Anyway, you need USB - good luck in your choice!


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 24, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> Just the 2pre to take with me on the road. Strange - I see that they have only the USB versions listed, maybe the thunderbolt version is not available anymore? Anyway, you need USB - good luck in your choice!


Yes, they stopped producing the thunderbolt version a couple years ago (I think it was that long but could be wrong on the timeline).


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## MartinH. (Aug 24, 2021)

Jhickin said:


> I like the Audient form factor, but no seperate volume for headphones (that I can see atleast) is a bit annoying.


Afaik it does not have separate headphone volume controls (edit: I was wrong, it does) and I've read the volume dial is digital and resets to zero every time the device loses power. So if your USB port isn't powered when the PC is off, that would be everytime you shut down your PC. I'd imagine that to be rather annoying, but my PC's USB ports are powered when it's off I believe. At least the lights of my Midi Keyboard stay on when the PC is off.


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## Jhickin (Aug 24, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Afaik it does not have separate headphone volume controls and I've read the volume dial is digital and resets to zero every time the device loses power. So if your USB port isn't powered when the PC is off, that would be everytime you shut down your PC. I'd imagine that to be rather annoying, but my PC's USB ports are powered when it's off I believe. At least the lights of my Midi Keyboard stay on when the PC is off.


Thanks for that info, I think It's a real dealbreaker, would hate to accidentally blast or damage my equipment because of this


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## Quasar (Aug 24, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> I have a focusrite scarlett solo too and I'm thinking about upgrading. Anecdotally I read a report of someone with the same interface who switched to an Audient id4 and said the sound quality noticably improved. From what I read, it has better preamps too, which could be interesting for me when I record guitar DIs. Can anyone confirm that the Audient id4 is a step up from the Focusrite Scarlet Solo? And is it enough of a step up to justify the ~140,- Euro?


I have used both the Scarlett Solo, 2i2 and the iD14, and think the Audient is a step up in terms of the preamps, but I suspect that the difference is dwarfed by other factors such as the microphone choice, the room treatment/environment and recording technique, and is probably ultimately trivial.

...If budget is the biggest concern, a Focusrite 3rd gen is quite possibly the better deal.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 24, 2021)

Jhickin said:


> Thanks for that info, I think It's a real dealbreaker, would hate to accidentally blast or damage my equipment because of this


It resets to minus infinity dB so no chance of that, though it is a slightly annoying feature if you don't have it running off its own power. (It does have separate headphone vol though: the big knob sets monitor or headphone level depending on which button is active.)


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## shropshirelad (Aug 24, 2021)

Jhickin said:


> I like the Audient form factor, but no seperate volume for headphones (that I can see atleast) is a bit annoying.


You can control monitor & headphone volume independently, if that's what you mean.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 24, 2021)

AACherokee said:


> What are the recommendations for a USB Audiointerface


Are you on PC or Mac?


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## bill5 (Aug 24, 2021)

? Almost al AIs do both. Shouldn't matter.


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## Jhickin (Aug 24, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> It resets to minus infinity dB so no chance of that, though it is a slightly annoying feature if you don't have it running off its own power. (It does have separate headphone vol though: the big knob sets monitor or headphone level depending on which button is active.)


ahh ok, thanks for clarifying on this.


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## mscp (Aug 24, 2021)

AlexRuger said:


> RME BabyFace Pro, bought used. Found mine on Craigslist for $450.


YES!


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## Pier (Aug 24, 2021)

If you're not recording, the priority should be focusing on drivers and latency. These days most interfaces in the mid range have really good DA conversion to be irrelevant.

Even if you're on macOS where AFAIK all interfaces will be using CoreAudio, the latency will vary. On Windows drivers do matter, a lot.

RME is considered one of the top brands in terms of drivers and latency. If you can find an RME product second hand that fits your budget, get it. You won't regret it.

Personally I'm happy with my Audient iD4. Latency is ok (I'm not super picky about that) and it has been rock solid on macOS and Windows.


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## Pier (Aug 24, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Audient has a rep for suboptimal Windows drivers.


Yeah they used to have a bad rep, but my iD4 has been rock solid on Windows for the past 2 years (used on macOS for a couple of years before that).


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## bill5 (Aug 24, 2021)

Pier said:


> If you're not recording


? If you're not recording, why even buy an audio interface?


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## mussnig (Aug 25, 2021)

bill5 said:


> ? If you're not recording, why even buy an audio interface?


I guess latency and quality of the output signal ...


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## Jhickin (Aug 25, 2021)

bill5 said:


> ? If you're not recording, why even buy an audio interface?


Recording isn't a primary purpose for me but I still want to be able to use my Mic's and plug in my keyboards/guitars should I need to for whatever reason. Just want my bases covered. But even if I didnt, its still easier to set up with studio monitors and headphones then just using MOBO ports, no?


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## janila (Aug 25, 2021)

ESI has maybe the second-best drivers after RME and they are rather affordable.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 25, 2021)

bill5 said:


> ? Almost al AIs do both. Shouldn't matter.


Apogee interfaces are Mac only, which are my recommendation for a Mac user.


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## bill5 (Aug 25, 2021)

Nope, most are both...on a glance it looks like mostly just the Symphony series are Mac only.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 25, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Nope, most are both...on a glance it looks like mostly just the Symphony series are Mac only.


I was not aware that some were now Windows compatible, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

The Element series is not Windows compatible, which is what I use and love.

Either way, an interface is still a must, especially when it comes to sound quality and handling latency.


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## Pier (Aug 25, 2021)

bill5 said:


> ? If you're not recording, why even buy an audio interface?


Even if you're happy with the DA of the onboard audio interface, the latency might be really bad. Or the headphone amp may be really bad too. Or you might want multiple outputs and/or volume controls.


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## bill5 (Aug 25, 2021)

Thx, I'm not up to speed as much on live performance setups and don't recall ever seeing interfaces set up with live performances or issues with latency, which is why I asked. I would have thought adding more gear created more latency, not less, and there were easier/better ways to set up instruments.


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## Pier (Aug 25, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Thx, I'm not up to speed as much on live performance setups and don't recall ever seeing interfaces set up with live performances or issues with latency, which is why I asked. I would have thought adding more gear created more latency, not less, and there were easier/better ways to set up instruments.


Well, you always need an audio interface (or sound card which is the same thing) to output analog audio from a computer.

These days pretty much 100% of computers for end users have an internal audio interface. By using an external audio interface you're replacing the internal one, not really adding more gear to the audio chain.


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## mussnig (Aug 25, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Thx, I'm not up to speed as much on live performance setups and don't recall ever seeing interfaces set up with live performances or issues with latency, which is why I asked. I would have thought adding more gear created more latency, not less, and there were easier/better ways to set up instruments.


It's really not just for live performances. When working with VIs in a DAW you want them to react "snappy" when pressing a key on your MIDI controller. With many internal soundcards (and their drivers) you will simply have a subpar experience.


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## Tim_Wells (Aug 25, 2021)

Another vote for RME. Look for a used Babyface from a reputable seller.


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## bill5 (Aug 25, 2021)

Pier said:


> Well, you always need an audio interface (or sound card which is the same thing) to output analog audio from a computer.


Somehow I missed/forgot we were talking mostly VIs, not analog instruments. We need a facepalm smile face lol. Carry on!


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 25, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> Another vote for RME. Look for a used Babyface from a reputable seller.


For anyone not knowing what it looks like to make sure it'll work for you. It doesn't for me AT ALL because my interface goes tucked into a tight space vertically and need to have all my I/O on the front and back only. It's a real shame they don't have a standard form factor for the interface - it was the first one I looked at, only to realize it would never work for me.


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## bill5 (Aug 25, 2021)

Yeah I have never liked the "iPad" style AIs, though I get why some would.


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## Jhickin (Aug 25, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> For anyone not knowing what it looks like to make sure it'll work for you. It doesn't for me AT ALL because my interface goes tucked into a tight space vertically and need to have all my I/O on the front and back only. It's a real shame they don't have a standard form factor for the interface - it was the first one I looked at, only to realize it would never work for me.


The BabyFace is a no go for me also, because of this


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## Tim_Wells (Aug 26, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> For anyone not knowing what it looks like to make sure it'll work for you. It doesn't for me AT ALL because my interface goes tucked into a tight space vertically and need to have all my I/O on the front and back only. It's a real shame they don't have a standard form factor for the interface - it was the first one I looked at, only to realize it would never work for me.


Fair enough.  But I don't mind finding a little desk space for such quality piece of kit that's so critical to my set up. 

I actually have the original Babyface which has a small breakout (albeit somewhat flimsy looking). It's been absolutely rock solid for nearly 10 years. When I ever upgrade, it'll almost certainly be to another Babyface.


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## Mike Fox (Aug 28, 2021)

I’m using the M4. Zero bugs. And the converters are the same as some of their high end models, i believe, so huge bang for your buck.

I also record guitar and used to have the 2i2, but the M4 sounds a lot better to me. Zero desire to upgrade to anything else.


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## MartinH. (Apr 25, 2022)

I'm (still) trying to decide on a new interface. Currently considering Audient ID4, Audient ID14, Motu M2, Motu M4. Which would be best to record electric guitar and bass with? I'm mainly looking for a much lower noisefloor than my focusrite scarlett solo 1st gen has.
I'm leaning slightly towards the Motus because they have an off switch. 
Which brand has the better windows drivers? I'm hearing mixed opinions on this. 




Markrs said:


> I have the MOTU M2 for Windows for over a year and not had a single issue with it, it has been rock solid


Do you know if the converters and preamps in the M2 and M4 are the same? Any reason to get the more expensive one when I just want to record guitar DIs with it? For the Audient interfaces I read the ID4 and ID14 have the same preamps, but the converters on the ID14 are supposedly better. Do you know if there are such differences between M2 and M4?




Mike Fox said:


> I’m using the M4. Zero bugs. And the converters are the same as some of their high end models, i believe, so huge bang for your buck.
> 
> I also record guitar and used to have the 2i2, but the M4 sounds a lot better to me. Zero desire to upgrade to anything else.


Did you record that blackout DI clip from the other thread with your Motu M4?


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## Mike Fox (Apr 25, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I'm (still) trying to decide on a new interface. Currently considering Audient ID4, Audient ID14, Motu M2, Motu M4. Which would be best to record electric guitar and bass with? I'm mainly looking for a much lower noisefloor than my focusrite scarlett solo 1st gen has.
> I'm leaning slightly towards the Motus because they have an off switch.
> Which brand has the better windows drivers? I'm hearing mixed opinions on this.
> 
> ...


I did.


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## Markrs (Apr 25, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Do you know if the converters and preamps in the M2 and M4 are the same? Any reason to get the more expensive one when I just want to record guitar DIs with it? For the Audient interfaces I read the ID4 and ID14 have the same preamps, but the converters on the ID14 are supposedly better. Do you know if there are such differences between M2 and M4?


I think they are the same in both

”Both M2 and M4 come with MOTU’s mic preamps, low noise-DC with analog outputs, and a headphone output with ESS.”






MOTU M2 vs M4 | Musicalvs.com


Looking for the best audio interface hardware, there is no end to how many products are there on the market. Each product will have its own pros and cons, set of features, price tag, functionality, and more. It can be overwhelming for a lot of people, especially beginners in the audio world. The...



musicalvs.com


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## MartinH. (Apr 25, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I think they are the same in both
> 
> ”Both M2 and M4 come with MOTU’s mic preamps, low noise-DC with analog outputs, and a headphone output with ESS.”
> 
> ...





Mike Fox said:


> I did.


Thanks guys! I'm ruling out the M4 then, because I don't need the extra channels. Still not fully decided between audient and motu M2 though, but leaning towards motu.


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## Windbag (Apr 25, 2022)

I'll throw in another MOTU M-series vote for two specific and undervalued reasons: 

1. MOTU's interfaces are some of the only ones i've used that listen to system volume events on OSX... so the standard volume and mute keys actually work. There is an analog knob on the unit itself, but this frees you up to place the interface where it might be more convenient for recording: an M4 here lives in a gear rack 20ft away from the workstation (display, keyboards and monitors) without issue because output level is readily available from any standard mac keyboard. Small thing, but more handy than you might think, given how may more things besides DAWs these machines are usually used for in a given day. 

2. MOTU is one of those rare companies you can call and get a real, live, knowledgeable, unscripted human being on the phone to help you out if you need it. I've now had and professionally installed a bunch of their gear and have yet to have a bad experience. 

These days, converters and preamps are good enough across the board that you need pretty stellar monitoring, mics, acoustic treatment, normalization, and ears to even establish a meaningful difference...but the M4 in use here has been at least as good as the apogee it replaced. Class-compliant (driverless if you need it) and very low-latency USB3 (nice laying down VI tracks via keyboard), with actually useful metering onboard

For the $70 difference, I would take a second look at the M4's extra line inputs (which can be hardware mixed through to the outputs so you can share your nice flat studio monitors with other gear/phone/turntable/echo/specialty preamp etc; use that here to send audio from a projector system to the main monitors) but you can't go wrong either way


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## MartinH. (Apr 26, 2022)

@Windbag: thanks a lot for your thoughts on the Motu interfaces! This is a big help, I think I'll take a Motu then. One more question:



Windbag said:


> For the $70 difference, I would take a second look at the M4's extra line inputs (which can be hardware mixed through to the outputs so you can share your nice flat studio monitors with other gear/phone/turntable/echo/specialty preamp etc; use that here to send audio from a projector system to the main monitors) but you can't go wrong either way


Am I understanding this right, the Line In (rightmost on the photo) can be used to connect another audio source like for example a second PC or a gaming console, and that signal can be routed to the outputs of the headphones and monitor speakers? If so, does that happen automatically or do you need to activate something in driver settings for that to work? Or is this done with the monitor mix dial on the front and the 3-4 button below it? This would indeed be a great feature that would be worth the additional 60€ to me. Thanks a lot for bringing this up! 

And another question: is it possible to connect studio headphones to the headphone out while also connecting a second pair of regular gaming headphones that don't need a headphone amp to one of the two monitor outs on the back - so a total of 2 headphones plus monitor speakers connected at the same time? That would be fantastic too!


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## Windbag (Apr 26, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Or is this done with the monitor mix dial on the front and the 3-4 button below it?


This ^ It's just facility for direct monitoring inputs 3 and 4 but you can use it for anything line level.

For headphones, with a Y-cable I should think you'd get away with lower impedance ones (or the kind of gaming headsets with base stations that use RCA anyway i.e. wireless)....the 1/4" outs are TRS but only for balanced audio, not stereo.


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## Pier (Apr 27, 2022)

The Tascam interfaces also look great.

Eg: The https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MFPKQ4M/ (Tascam US-4x4HR) retails for $219 in Amazon US and includes 4 preamps.

Cheaper than the Motus but have cleaner preamps (but worse ADDA). Although according to Julian Krause the headphones amp is better on the M2 and M4. The latency is worse on the Tascams but it's not horrible by any means.

Anyone tried those? How are the Windows drivers?



Here's the noise of the preamp


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## liquidlino (Apr 27, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I have the MOTU M2 for Windows for over a year and not had a single issue with it, it has been rock solid


Same here. Love it.


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## liquidlino (Apr 27, 2022)

A 


Pier said:


> The Tascam interfaces also look great.
> 
> Eg: The https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MFPKQ4M/ (Tascam US-4x4HR) retails for $219 in Amazon US and includes 4 preamps.
> 
> ...



A good lesson in how not to draw graphs. There's 2db difference between median and best.


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## flampton (Apr 27, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> A
> 
> A good lesson in how not to draw graphs. There's 2db difference between median and best.


This is confusing, how would you graph it so there is a bigger difference. lol


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## PaulieDC (Apr 27, 2022)

I get it that the Babyface Pro FS is an odd bird in the design, works best on a big desk which fortunately I have and I wouldn't trade the _low_ latency, sound quality, driver stability and most of all TotalMix FX for my output control for anything else at this point. HOWEVER, if I needed an interface in that sub-$300 with possible potential mic recording (I know, not what the OP stated), I keep seeing great review after review on this Solid State Logic, almost to the point where I want to get one and do a full side-by-side test on it, especially at that price. Most of us just need a super solid soundcard and it sound like Audient and Motu are providing that at the same or slightly less price. But SSL does have a solid reputation and the dual separate headphone outputs are a nice touch, so maybe this one is the third musketeer of the sub-$300 interfaces.

I do admit that the cables sticking out the side of the Babyface are weird... I have a porcupine for an interface for pete's sake. Although, I do have a black canvas dust cover I lay on it to cover that up, lol. Fortunately I never need to touch the unit, just leave it shoved off to the side.


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## liquidlino (Apr 27, 2022)

flampton said:


> This is confusing, how would you graph it so there is a bigger difference. lol


lol, no the other way - the graph has been mis-drawn to make it seem like there's a meaningful difference between the products. 2db isn't really meaningful, other measurements and features will be far more useful for differentiation of these. The two outliers at the bottom at 117db are more meaningful - if use case is to record quiet and boost, then that might give audibly different results compared to the rest of the pack.


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## liquidlino (Apr 27, 2022)

This review might be useful for anyone considering the Motu M2 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/motu-m2-review-audio-interface.19911/ it's what convinced me to get the M2. Great measurements across all features, especially for the money.


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## flampton (Apr 27, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> lol, no the other way - the graph has been mis-drawn to make it seem like there's a meaningful difference between the products. 2db isn't really meaningful, other measurements and features will be far more useful for differentiation of these. The two outliers at the bottom at 117db are more meaningful - if use case is to record quiet and boost, then that might give audibly different results compared to the rest of the pack.


Was joking , I knew what you meant, I was just pointing out that you can read it the opposite. Clearly the lol at the end did not help project that, and I need to clarify better.


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## Pier (Apr 27, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> I keep seeing great review after review on this Solid State Logic, almost to the point where I want to get one and do a full side-by-side test on it, especially at that price.


The converters are fantastic. See this video where the reconvert the same signal 500 times vs the Audient iD14.



I think the headphones output is its Achilles heel.






Source

Edit:

According to this video, the SSL2+ has better latency than the Motu M4


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## liquidlino (Apr 27, 2022)

Pier said:


> The converters are fantastic. See this video where the reconvert the same signal 500 times vs the Audient iD14.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Note the Output Impedance of those interfaces for headphones. If you have low impedance headphones (like ATH-M50x that are 32ohm I think), then everything except the green coloured ones under an Ohm will cause frequency response of the headphones to change. The steinberg units I can't understand why anyone would make an interface with such high impedance, weird.


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## flampton (Apr 28, 2022)

What are the thoughts on the newish universal audio volts? The ones with the built in 1176 compressor look really sharp.


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## Pier (Apr 28, 2022)

I just clicked on buy for the Motu M4.

I initially wanted the M2 but according to ASR the M4 has slightly better ADC quality. Plus the extra line inputs will allow me to add 2 preamps in the future if I ever need it.


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## CATDAD (Apr 28, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> And another question: is it possible to connect studio headphones to the headphone out while also connecting a second pair of regular gaming headphones that don't need a headphone amp to one of the two monitor outs on the back - so a total of 2 headphones plus monitor speakers connected at the same time? That would be fantastic too!


DO NOT connect anything to the second stereo out pair unless it has its own amplifier/attenuator!

It’s a full line-level output that bypasses the interface amp and it is extremely loud.

That being said, I will cast another vote for the MOTU M series, they are incredible at their price point and have good latency. The only thing more you could really ask for is more inputs (ADAT or otherwise) but that’s not what this device is about!


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## cleverr1 (Apr 28, 2022)

+1 for S/H RME Babyface Pro as mentioned several times in this thread.

They come up rarely in the UK and no one has stock of the new Babyface FS (none when I was looking) so they're highly sought after.

However, it was worth the wait to get a mint one for £450. Mine is part of a laptop based mobile rig so form factor is no issue in that context.


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## MartinH. (Apr 28, 2022)

Pier said:


> According to this video, the SSL2+ has better latency than the Motu M4


Yes, 1ms better on the sample rate that I use. That's like sitting 1 more foot away from the speaker I believe. Not something that I'll ever notice.




CATDAD said:


> DO NOT connect anything to the second stereo out pair unless it has its own amplifier/attenuator!
> 
> It’s a full line-level output that bypasses the interface amp and it is extremely loud.


Thanks for the warning, appreciate it! Things that have their own volume dial - even if it's just a resistor in a headphone cable - should be fine though, right?




I'm still torn whether I should buy a new interface at all. I just went around my room a bit with my guitar plugged in, and there are just so many sources of interference. It's hard to tell with the noisefloor of the old interface if there even would be a spot where the interference drops below the noisefloor of it. In other words, I'm not sure a new interface would fix my issue and today I don't feel ready for the disappointment of yet another pointles purchase. I think I'll wait some more.


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## PaulieDC (Apr 28, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> Note the Output Impedance of those interfaces for headphones. If you have low impedance headphones (like ATH-M50x that are 32ohm I think), then everything except the green coloured ones under an Ohm will cause frequency response of the headphones to change. The steinberg units I can't understand why anyone would make an interface with such high impedance, weird.


I'm really starting to believe that a high-end headphone amp is essential for accurate frequency response. I mean, why not, we've already spent more than a down payment on a house for our home studios, what's another 600 bucks, lol...

I'm thinking on this Grace or this Rupert Neve. May seem crazy but I've come this far and it puts the issue to bed.


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## Pier (Apr 28, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> I'm really starting to believe that a high-end headphone amp is essential for accurate frequency response. I mean, why not, we've already spent more than a down payment on a house for our home studios, what's another 600 bucks, lol...
> 
> I'm thinking on this Grace or this Rupert Neve. May seem crazy but I've come this far and it puts the issue to bed.


You'd probably get a superior amp than the one in your your interface by spending $200 on a Schiit or similar.


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## liquidlino (Apr 28, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> I'm really starting to believe that a high-end headphone amp is essential for accurate frequency response. I mean, why not, we've already spent more than a down payment on a house for our home studios, what's another 600 bucks, lol...
> 
> I'm thinking on this Grace or this Rupert Neve. May seem crazy but I've come this far and it puts the issue to bed.


Same I have the M2, and it's headphone output is fine. But I'm curious how much better it could be. This is on my Amazon wish list if it's any help, carefully chosen to have as wide a set of connectivity and fantastic measurements for a reasonable price. https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B088HK...olid=38MINSGKHZ197&psc=1&ref_=gv_ov_lig_pi_dp






Monoprice Monolith THX 887 Balance Headphone Amp: New Champ?


This is a review and detailed measurements of the brand new Monolith Balanced Headphone Amplifier using THX AAA 887 technology. It was kindly sent to me a couple of days ago prior to its official unveiling on September 10th. It costs US $399.99 and is slated for general release on October...



audiosciencereview.com


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## CATDAD (Apr 29, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Thanks for the warning, appreciate it! Things that have their own volume dial - even if it's just a resistor in a headphone cable - should be fine though, right?


Those should be fine, and thinking about it now, my experience with the line out was with monitor speakers; headphones with much higher impedance may be quieter, perhaps even too quiet! And this was specifically with the secondary stereo out of the M4, I actually don’t know if the RCA out of the M2 is affected by the speaker amp or not, it might be a mirrored output of the 1/4” TS monitor out. 

The difference in impedance may also affect the frequency response of your headphones, to what extent I don’t know.


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## marius_dm (Apr 29, 2022)

Used RME Digiface USB + some cheap 8in/8out ADAT ADDA (like a Profire 2626 that goes for about $100 used).
You get rock solid drivers, lowest possible latency, infinite routing options using Total Mix, possibility of expanding up to simultaneous 32in/32out if needed, your choice of ADDA.


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## Pier (May 2, 2022)

So I got the M4 yesterday.

People at the ASR forum have been opening those and checking the hardware revisions. Not sure if I got v2 or v3, but it's definitely not v1 since I have the latest firmware.

The build quality is fantastic. Love the LCD meter although I wish there was a way to turn it off. It makes me me feel a bit of anxiety knowing it's always on with the same thing going on.

So far I've only been using it as a DAC with different headphones.

The difference with my Audient iD4 (mk1) is notable. The M4 has a more prominent/detailed high end and a wider soundstage. I don't know if this is caused by the DAC or the amp. I guess both. Overall it also has a clearer tone across the whole frequency range.

On my lower impedance headphones the change is very noticeable but less drastic than with my DT990 Pro (250 ohm). I've always considered the low end of the 990s a bit muddy but with the M4 they sound fantastic. Specially the increased sound stage is amazing for soundtracks and orchestral music.

Anyway, very happy so far.


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## pcohen12 (May 2, 2022)

The M4 has been fantastic for me as well. Easily drives my 250 ohm DT 770s, provides great connectivity, and has rock solid drivers even for new Macs. The one time I thought I had an issue with it, it ended up being something else with my setup, and Motu support was great in helping me track it down.


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## Pier (May 2, 2022)

pcohen12 said:


> The one time I thought I had an issue with it, it ended up being something else with my setup, and Motu support was great in helping me track it down.


What was it? If you don't mind sharing.


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## pcohen12 (May 2, 2022)

Pier said:


> What was it? If you don't mind sharing.


Certainly! At intermittent times, I would start hearing rhythmic, distorted pulses when playing any computer audio. The pulse volume would vary with the dynamics of what was being played.

I had been using my LG Ultrafine monitor as a USB hub, and after plugging the M4 directly into my laptop, I haven’t had the issue again. So I assume it just wasn’t getting enough power, or there was some other oddity with trying to run it through the monitor as a hub.


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## SupremeFist (May 2, 2022)

pcohen12 said:


> Certainly! At intermittent times, I would start hearing rhythmic, distorted pulses when playing any computer audio. The pulse volume would vary with the dynamics of what was being played.
> 
> I had been using my LG Ultrafine monitor as a USB hub, and after plugging the M4 directly into my laptop, I haven’t had the issue again. So I assume it just wasn’t getting enough power, or there was some other oddity with trying to run it through the monitor as a hub.


I would expect that to cause issues with any interface. I have everything else hanging off multiple TB3/USB hubs but my id14 gets a prime direct port into the computer.


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## pcohen12 (May 2, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> I would expect that to cause issues with any interface. I have everything else hanging off multiple TB3/USB hubs but my id14 gets a prime direct port into the computer.


Right…makes a lot of sense in hindsight! (If only hindsight could also be “nowsight”, life would be much easier 😄)


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## Pier (May 12, 2022)

Today I recorded a friend playing the guitar and was super happy that I went for the M4 instead of the M2.

The knob to mix between the inputs and the sound coming from the DAW was super handy. Why didn't MOTU add that to the M2 is beyond me.

The extra inputs were handy too. We ended up just using 2 mics but we did try a 3 mic setup with an extra preamp. Knowing that I can record up to 4 channels really feels luxurious for such a small interface. Maybe even record some drums on the cheap! (stereo oh, snare, kick, no toms)


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## BVMusic (May 29, 2022)

Pier said:


> I just clicked on buy for the Motu M4.
> 
> I initially wanted the M2 but according to ASR the M4 has slightly better ADC quality. Plus the extra line inputs will allow me to add 2 preamps in the future if I ever need it.


no DUET 2 listed? 😮


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## Pier (May 29, 2022)

BVMusic said:


> no DUET 2 listed? 😮


I don't think they've reviewed the DUET 2 at ASR.

Here's their database of reviews (click on "go to rankings" for the colored rankings).









Audio Electronics Review and Measurements Index


Master table and index of all audio equipment reviews and measurements.




www.audiosciencereview.com


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## MarcMahler89 (May 29, 2022)

Pier said:


> The knob to mix between the inputs and the sound coming from the DAW was super handy. Why didn't MOTU add that to the M2 is beyond me.


💰💰💰
(Owner of a M2)

I really didnt need the additional functionality, thus, even if the price difference is moderate, i decided for the M2.


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## BVMusic (May 30, 2022)

Pier said:


> I don't think they've reviewed the DUET 2 at ASR.
> 
> Here's their database of reviews (click on "go to rankings" for the colored rankings).
> 
> ...


So Pier, in terms of sound quality from the inputs and outputs are both the M2 & M4 the same?


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## Pier (May 30, 2022)

BVMusic said:


> So Pier, in terms of sound quality from the inputs and outputs are both the M2 & M4 the same?


According to the measurements at ASR, the M4 has better ADC than the M2. But there have been a couple of hardware revisions for both models. It could very well be that they measured different revisions. Check the reviews for more details:

Motu M2 review

Motu M4 review


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## BVMusic (May 30, 2022)

Pier said:


> According to the measurements at ASR, the M4 has better ADC than the M2. But there have been a couple of hardware revisions for both models. It could very well be that they measured different revisions. Check the reviews for more details:
> 
> Motu M2 review
> 
> Motu M4 review


thanks, Pier


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## PeterN (Sep 22, 2022)

One more thumbs up for MotuM2. Got it connected to MacBook Air M1 (Shure Sm7B microphone). Just via usb, both Logic and MacBook can immediately recognise it without hassle.

This combination is fantastic. Both sound wise and how conveniently it works (cloudlifter may be needed for some occasions for the Shure mic).


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