# Switch to Cubase? (from Logic)



## Christof (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi,

again someone told me that Cubase 7 is "lightyears beyond" Logic and that Cubase is much better to do your job efficiently.

Any Ex-Logic users here to confirm?

I am running Logic X now, the only barrier to with to Cubase is the learning process, I don't want to start from scratch....


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Oct 16, 2013)

Christof @ Wed 16 Oct said:


> Hi,
> 
> again someone told me that Cubase 7 is "lightyears beyond" Logic and that Cubase is much better to do your job efficiently.
> 
> ...



went from Logic 9 to Cubase 6.

One of the best decisions of my life!

Didn't look back once. Do it!


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## Barrie B (Oct 16, 2013)

What would be your main reasons for the change over?

Sorry, but "Yes do it now" - lovely and enthusiastic as it is doesn't help make a decision!

Be interested to know,

B


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## jamwerks (Oct 16, 2013)

Are you feeling limited in any way with Logic? The only real reason to change (imo) is if your daw is getting in your way, and you see greener grass next door.


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## LaurensGoedhart (Oct 16, 2013)

This topic reminded me of the availability of a demo of Cubase 7. As a Logic user for about 5 years now, I heard a lot about Cubase. So I downloaded the trial, set everything up and after fiddling around with settings, making a template for my instruments and playing with it, I am sold. After the demo period is over, I think I'll be buying Cubase as soon as possible.

Edit: maybe nice to share a few pros I experienced:
- as a whole, Cubase feels a lot snappier and more stable than Logic
- the mixer is REALLY extensive. There's a lot of routing options possible (Logic can do it too, but it gives me a headache to even think about recreating what I just did in Cubase into Logic). I might even throw Pro Tools in the trash (too bad it's the standard)
- folders in the "arrange window" are really useful, Logic's folder function is nothing compared to Cubase's


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## mosso (Oct 16, 2013)

After some disappointment with Logic X I tried the Cubase 7 demo (you just need an eLicenser). Even allowing for learning the differences in workflow I found it to be underwhelming (in the sense that it wasn't considerably better than LP9). In some ways better, in some ways worse. In my case, it was definitely a "grass is greener"-type thing (at least compared to Logic 9). Once LP9 is no longer an option I'll take a look again (if LPX continues to disappoint). In the meantime I'll be trying the DP demo too.


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## rgames (Oct 16, 2013)

Christof @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> again someone told me that Cubase 7 is "lightyears beyond" Logic and that Cubase is much better to do your job efficiently.


I doubt that. Cubase is, arguably, more efficient but it's not like you're going to switch to Cubase and suddenly start writing 10x the amount of music. Logic is more than sufficient.

The real difference in my view comes down to two things:

1. Expression Maps
2. Steinberg

#1 Expression Maps are a big help when it come to writing for virtual orchestra. Logic doesn't seem to be marketed towards that group, so I'd be surprised if it ever showed up there.

#2 Steinberg (and Yamaha) are focused on the music industry. It's a niche for Apple (and, therefore, Logic). I get the sense that Apple sees Logic as a tool for the masses of beat-makers, so I'm not so sure they really care if it has truly professional features. As such, Logic might be much slower to incorporate new features relevant to professional users.

So, bottom line, I doubt anyone's creativity is being hindered by Logic at the moment. But I do expect it will be less likely to keep up with other DAW's as time progresses.

rgames


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 16, 2013)

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=11887


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## Daryl (Oct 16, 2013)

I think that it boils down to a few things:

1) There are a couple of things that Logic can do that Cubase can't
2) There are quite a few things that Cubase can do that Logic can't
3) Do you need any of 1?
4) Do you need 2?

If you don't need any of the extra features of Cubase and would miss the unique Logic features, don't change.

The real issue (as others have pointed out) is that by using a certain DAW for a number of years you have formed workflow habits that seem natural to you. To a Cubase user some of them would appear pointless, at best, but you would think the same thing about the Cubase way of working. In the end it comes down to a choice between more features or just accepting that you are comfortable with your workflow.

Of course the most important thing to me would be that Logic is not cross-platform, so you have all your eggs in the Apple basket, which would be rather too big a risk for me.

D


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## dgburns (Oct 16, 2013)

Christof @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> Hi,
> 
> again someone told me that Cubase 7 is "lightyears beyond" Logic and that Cubase is much better to do your job efficiently.
> 
> ...



In the course of paying work I've used Vision(now dead),Protools,DP,Cubase and finally Logic.I would say they all have a philosophy that you either take to right away,or find comfortable and can work in.Logic is by far the most "fiddly" to me.In that I mean you can find a solution to midi things that you can solve yourself if you want to dig in.It also has to be clear to you that the arrange page is more fluid than the others.You can have tracks ordered in ways that wouldn't make sense to someone used to the DP,PT or Cubase way of thinking.
But I find the different daws tend to steer me in interesting ways.I find I just write music in Cubase.I mess around with audio bundles and chunks in DP(hate the lack of named midi sequences like Logic).I edit audio in PT and mostly find I spend enormous amounts of time making templates in Logic(usually after an episode or project) in order to have a specific layout for a project.I personally prefer the overall sound in Cubase.I find Dp to be clear and rich in the mids.I find I have to work the sound in Logic or it ends up sounding soft and not pleasing to me when played back in PT.Maybe it's all in the pan laws,but whatever.
I think Logic may be just fine,even X,which I have yet to jump on.I think I will for better or worse.But I will personally make the effort to keep my Cubase and DP chops current.


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## Hal (Oct 16, 2013)

i read that article about what people like and dislike with their daw jay posted ..well cubase they dislike that it has a dongle lol ok its a perfect DAW then as they didnt find anything to hate


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## olajideparis (Oct 16, 2013)

Ex Logic user here. I jumped ship almost immediately after the release of Logic Pro X. The transition was a bit slow at first but after using it on a couple of projects I feel like I've got the hang of it. I imagine it will be a while yet before I am as adept with Cubase as I am with Logic but I have a pretty decent rhythm going on thanks in part to the Steinberg CMC controllers which allow me to access common program functions at the push of a button or a twist of a knob.

Other Logic users who have jumped ship told me I wouldn't regret it and they were right. It's an incredibly well-organized program and there has been a lot of thought put into the features that professional music makers like us need to do their jobs efficiently. There are a lot of examples, but for starters the way it deals with multi-timbral instruments and the organization of the mixer are lightyears beyond Logic. Of course there are a couple of things I find awkward about Cubase, but all in all I'd say it has Logic beat pretty handily.

Expression maps were a big reason I was interested in Cubase but it comes down to the thought and detail they have put into the small things like multi-timbral instruments and the organization of the mixer (mentioned above), the ability to have a count down in a new time signature (recording a 5/8 section that follows a 4/4 section for example), the way plugins are organized by category (even 3rd party ones), Extensive export options (huge for archiving and creating stems). So it's not that you'll all of a sudden write better music or do it faster even (not at first anyway), but you'll find yourself having to work less around the limitations of your software to realize your vision. That was the key to me. I am a logic Power user that literally fell asleep with the manual by my side on more than one occasion and there were things I wanted it to do that it either couldn't or couldn't do elegantly enough for my tastes. So given the workflow I'd always had in mind, Cubase seems to be nearly everything Logic wasn't for me. And it's feels great to be working with a tool that suits my way of thinking. Perhaps it doesn't fit yours or the learning curve is too much to brave, but for me it was time and money well spent.


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## muziksculp (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi,

I switched from Mac/LP9 to PC/Cubase three years ago. 

I was truly turned off by Apple's complete disconnect with its LP9 customers, plus I felt I was using a DAW made by a phone manufacturer who didn't give a damn about their Pro-DAW business & customers. This was totally different when Emagic owned and ran the Logic show. 

Steinberg/YAMAHA was just the opposite .. Both are great companies focused on making great products for the Pro-Musicians, and are not too busy making the next iOS or iPhone at the expense of poor DAW support, and lack of communication with their Pro DAW users. 

Switching to PC/Cubase was the Best & Wisest decision I made. I would never go back to Mac or Logic. for pro-music applications. 

Regarding learning Cubase, well, you can speed up your learning time, by subscribing to MacProVideo's Cubase Video Tutorials, or Groove 3 they are both very good, I recommend MPVideo Cubase tutorials. They are well made, and easy to follow. You should be rolling along with Cubase 7 in a weeks time. Just put some time to learn it, and you will be very comfortable with the new workflow and tools that Cubase 7 offers. It was fairly a smooth transition for me. Plus, I feel Cubase is a very Logical DAW. :mrgreen: 

Good Luck.... Switch and be Happy :lol: 


Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## JFK (Oct 17, 2013)

They're both really good apps. In my experience, the short answer is;


Cubase is better than Logic 9 @:

Recording 24/7 aka almost never losing an idea. Worth the switch for the feature alone 

Dealing with audio. Processing it with plug-ins, non-destructively

Stability (Til you want to close the project, sometimes...), auto-backups. Starting Cubase is much faster than Logic.

Flexibility in macros/key commands/PLE

Flexibility with routing your audio. 256 bus limit vs L9s 64

Organizing tracks: Reliable folders, nameable/exportable colors, options-per-channel-type

Organizing multi-MIDI insts: No bloated object-based environment, just a list

Routing things in the mixer (C7)

Expression maps

Bouncing many tracks @ once

Smooth animations

Managing plugins: Quick rescan them from an open session


Logic 9 is better than Cubase @:

AUTOMATION: the thing I miss the most. Dead simple and intuitive. Although both suffer from non-sample accurate playback. 

Tool workflow; marquee > range tool. Better hotkeys for things like nudging, zooming. 

Boucing singular tracks. Offline bounce is fast/convenient

Adding/editing markers. (In fact, the 'global tracks' concept is way better than the divided track list which wastes ample space on my screen and can [does] get easily messed up.)

Keeping the files of your project organized

Higher plugin/send limit per-channel

Browsing and organizing data (Media bay vs standard file browser. I prefer the old-fashioned folders, personally). Apple loops were helpful... In Cubase, I need to: use a 3rd party app to detect the tempo. Find the audio in the pool. Type in the tempo switch it to musical mode and THEN hear synced loops :D 

(con't from above) In L9 You can reveal files in the bin in Finder. You can't do the same in Cubase's pool :evil: Little things like this are very limiting. In L9, all you have to do is right-click the session icon in it's title bar to get a hierarchical list of the projects folder etc. In Cubase, the only work around is to open the Steinberg hub, got to 'Recent', right-click the project and hit 'Show In Explorer'. Might not sound like much, but I don't understand why things like this aren't made simpler.

Niche midi-functions like reliable legato, 'All selected MIDI notes to the same length' (w/ key modifiers; nice), expand region length to beginning/end of next/prev region

Pitching audio w/ fades: Cubase can apply a pitch envelope, so the features not lacking. L9s execution was more clear and flexible, however. 

Editing moving/cycle locators is slightly less cumbersome than C7 due to wider "grab points"

Last but not least, nearly completely moddable GUI customization. Beyond the color options, Steinberg doesn't let you visually change many things.


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## Daryl (Oct 17, 2013)

JFK @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> Logic 9 is better than Cubase @:
> Tool workflow; marquee > range tool. Better hotkeys for things like nudging, zooming


Not at all. You can customise these things as much as you like in Cubase.


JFK @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> Boucing singular tracks. Offline bounce is fast/convenient


I don't understand what the difference with Cubase is here.


JFK @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> Keeping the files of your project organized


That's my job. :wink: 


JFK @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> Higher plugin/send limit per-channel


I'm sure you're right, but I've never run out of either.


JFK @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> Browsing and organizing data (Media bay vs standard file browser. I prefer the old-fashioned folders, personally)


Agreed. I hate Media Bay. :evil: 


JFK @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> Niche midi-functions like reliable legato, 'All selected MIDI tracks to the same length', expand region length to beginning/end of next/prev region


All of this and more is available in Cubase. I also have nudges in milliseconds, rather than ticks. :shock: 


JFK @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> Last but not least, nearly completely moddable GUI customization. Beyond the color options, Steinberg doesn't let you visually change many things.


Again I don't really know, other than I don't really like the newest Cubase look. However, I hate the look of Logic, so this might be a deal breaker for someone who thinks that Logic looks good.

D


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## JFK (Oct 17, 2013)

Daryl @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> JFK @ Thu Oct 17 said:
> 
> 
> > Logic 9 is better than Cubase @:
> ...



In C7, (Edit: by default) you can't nudge an event one bar without changing your grid-type. In L9, you can have hotkeys that move the regions at fixed amounts (What I want)

Tools require you to switch back to your select tool after (Marquee is only while the key is depressed). This is very convenient.

In L9, you can zoom with your mouse wheel like every other modern application. You can zoom horizontally+vertically with the mouse, and have a _hotkey _to zoom in to your selection/the whole project contextually. 

Many of these are achievable with macros, I'm just saying that; for the given user, out of the box, Logic is more a efficient implementation of some of these things.




> I don't understand what the difference with Cubase is here.



Export Audio Mixdown vs BIP: EAM is slower, overall. It likes to take it's time starting the bounce, ending the bounce. The time it takes to actually render the audio is slower too; Logic was much more rapid.

Another small annoyance, is the fact that you have to 'aim' it at the right folder within your project whenever you bounce something. I've stopped using EAM for partially because of this. 

Now if I want to render something, I record the group channel before my stereo bus. If I'd like to render an instrument, I'll record a dummy-group that all my instruments send their levels to @ parity. I find that it's much more stable/flexible, albeit slower.



Daryl @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> JFK @ Thu Oct 17 said:
> 
> 
> > Last but not least, nearly completely moddable GUI customization. Beyond the color options, Steinberg doesn't let you visually change many things.
> ...



Both are pretty ugly lol. I do miss the bold outlines on the regions in Logic. Although, C7 dark windows are a big plus.


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## jamwerks (Oct 17, 2013)

Yeah I was hoping to find a way to just nudge midi notes quickly. In Logic, I could program the arrow keys to nudge by a set (by me) number of ticks. Can seem to do that in C7. :cry:


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## AndrewS (Oct 17, 2013)

jamwerks @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> Yeah I was hoping to find a way to just nudge midi notes quickly. In Logic, I could program the arrow keys to nudge by a set (by me) number of ticks. Can seem to do that in C7. :cry:



Check out the Nudge folder in the Key Commands menu. It nudges based on the quantize setting.


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## JFK (Oct 17, 2013)

jamwerks @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> Yeah I was hoping to find a way to just nudge midi notes quickly. In Logic, I could program the arrow keys to nudge by a set (by me) number of ticks. Can seem to do that in C7. :cry:



Place your mouse cursor over the .000 place on the info line while the notes you want to nudge are selected. Scrolling up/down simulates the behavior we want (I hope your wrist muscles are developed :mrgreen: )

This works for all of the parameters on the info line. So you can nudge a bar, bear, quantize val, etc.


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## Daryl (Oct 17, 2013)

@JFK, I was going to explain why you're wrong on almost everything you say, but then you explained that you meant by default, without knowing how to use Cubase.

Yes, you are correct that some of the functions you want have to be programmed using a Macro and Logical Editor Preset, but this is not the same thing as "can't". It's a bit like saying that Logic "can't" pan a stereo file. :wink: 

D


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## jamwerks (Oct 17, 2013)

@JFK, yeah that how I've been doing it. But the Logic9 method has lots of advantages imo.


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## Daryl (Oct 17, 2013)

jamwerks @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> Yeah I was hoping to find a way to just nudge midi notes quickly. In Logic, I could program the arrow keys to nudge by a set (by me) number of ticks. Can seem to do that in C7. :cry:


You need to use the Logical Editor. Then you can set up KC for various options that work independently of the quantise set.

D


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## Ryan Scully (Oct 17, 2013)

In short, it was the best decision I've made..

It wont take you long at all to pick up C7 moving from Logic. There is already a lot of great points and comparisons raised in this thread so I will only echo that Ive found MIDI editing to be far more sensible and intuitive, project layouts easier to manage and arrange, much more powerful mixer and easier to customize. Not too mention one of the biggest things for me is VST3 support which pushes working with Vienna Ensemble Pro light years beyond the latter. And on one final note, was never a fan of Logic's handling of multi timbral instruments - I do not have these issues in Cubase :D 


Ryan


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## JFK (Oct 17, 2013)

Ryan Scully @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> . Not too mention one of the biggest things for me is VST3 support which pushes working with Vienna Ensemble Pro light years beyond the latter.



This.

It's not without consequence, however: It's a known issue that the load time for a session increases greatly in proportion to how many MIDI channels you have enabled per instance. Also, in my experience, ASIO load degrades quickly with dozens of channels connected per instance. I've been forced to bus my outs per library in Vienna, then send them in to Cubase grouped. It cuts down on track counts, load times (in theory; I haven't had a noticeable increase) but most importantly the ASIO load @ 256 samples



> @JFK, yeah that how I've been doing it. But the Logic9 method has lots of advantages imo.



Agreed! 



> You need to use the Logical Editor. Then you can set up KC for various options that work independently of the quantise set.



I hadn't thought of using the PLE for nudging. Brilliant idea



> @JFK, I was going to explain why you're wrong on almost everything you say, but then you explained that you meant by default, without knowing how to use Cubase.
> 
> Yes, you are correct that some of the functions you want have to be programmed using a Macro and Logical Editor Preset, but this is not the same thing as "can't". It's a bit like saying that Logic "can't" pan a stereo file. Wink



You're right, I was overstating the differences. I think we can agree that Steinberg could implement many of these things to help ease the groundwork it takes to do even the most fundamental functions.

I.E. Duplicating a track w/o it's events and removing the 'Copy of' needs a macro to accomplish. To have this as a built in feature would be preferable, as the PLE can introduce a noticeable pause in Cubase.

Logic is cheaper has a more forgiving learning curve and doesn't require a dongle so I believe that's why many producers/composers start out there. But overall, there's no competition in my experience: C7 wins hands down.


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## jamwerks (Oct 17, 2013)

Daryl @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> You need to use the Logical Editor. Then you can set up KC for various options that work independently of the quantise set


Cool, thanks!
Guess it's time to crack open the manual and discover the Logical editor.


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## Daryl (Oct 18, 2013)

JFK @ Fri Oct 18 said:


> Logic is cheaper....


Ah, but you have to buy a Mac to run it, so it's not really cheaper in the scheme of things. Obviously if you already have the Mac, it makes little difference.

D


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## Daryl (Oct 18, 2013)

jamwerks @ Fri Oct 18 said:


> Daryl @ Thu Oct 17 said:
> 
> 
> > You need to use the Logical Editor. Then you can set up KC for various options that work independently of the quantise set
> ...


If you haven't yet used the Logical Editor you are missing out on one of the best features of Cubase. There are a few quirks ( and a couple of bugs) but for me it is one of the most important features of the program.

There used to be a sticky thread on the Cubase forum where people posted their Macros and LE ideas. I don't think it's there any more, but maybe we should try something like that here, particularly as a Steinberg rep has just joined the forum.

D


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## germancomponist (Oct 18, 2013)

Daryl @ Fri Oct 18 said:


> If you haven't yet used the Logical Editor you are missing out on one of the best features of Cubase. There are a few quirks ( and a couple of bugs) but for me it is one of the most important features of the program.
> 
> There used to be a sticky thread on the Cubase forum where people posted their Macros and LE ideas. I don't think it's there any more, but maybe we should try something like that here, particularly as a Steinberg rep has just joined the forum.
> 
> D



+1

I hate it and I love it... .


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## JFK (Oct 18, 2013)

Daryl @ Thu Oct 17 said:


> JFK @ Fri Oct 18 said:
> 
> 
> > Logic is cheaper....
> ...



Well put!


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Oct 31, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> went from Logic 9 to Cubase 6.
> 
> One of the best decisions of my life!
> 
> Didn't look back once. Do it!


haha funny someone likes this because I have since given up on Cubase and moved to Studio One....an even better decision of my life.


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## Hunter123 (Oct 31, 2021)

Logic 's a lot better now than it was 8 years ago though wouldn't we agree?


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## Tren (Nov 5, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> haha funny someone likes this because I have since given up on Cubase and moved to Studio One....an even better decision of my life.


Some people just love riding the wave of every FAD that comes around.

Others prefer to just ignore that stuff and get work done.

Why necro an 8 year old thread, though?


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 5, 2021)

Tren said:


> Some people just love riding the wave of every FAD that comes around.
> 
> Others prefer to just ignore that stuff and get work done.
> 
> Why necro an 8 year old thread, though?


y not

Also find your assertion insulting; I move on because the program in question doesn't suit my needs. A very childish assertion that one either "gets it done" or "rides a fad". My movement through 3 different DAWs was across a decade.


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