# Composer Career ''Investment''?



## RRBE Sound (May 29, 2016)

Dear Everyone,

As I am new to this forum, I wasn't sure if this was the right topic to post in. But as my ''concern'' relate to all sorts of bits and pieces of ''gear'' I thought this should be okay.

So to the main point.

*Some background:*
I come from Denmark, I am 23 years old and I have composed music for the last 6-7 years. One year ago I started making jingles throw Fiverr.com. 

My little business grow and I have earned a little bit of money and got more and more involved in some bigger short films and one Danish feature film.

*My frustration is:*
All of you who either make a living or just do this as a part time job or hobby, know that with every earning you have to either save up the money or invest them. 

Before I started I invested in some of the basic things to have in a studio; DAW, Speakers, headphones, Kontakt, Hardware (SSD/RAM/etc.) and later Sample Libraries. 

This is great! - And now a year later, when I in the last two month have earned the double of what I generated the whole last year (And beware, I am not that money concerned. Money is just a basic factor to have, when building a studio foundation, I think.) - I am starting to consider what to invest in. Should it be a brand new Mac/PC - The best I can get..? A really cool synthesizer..? Better speakers? - Some of the great Spitfire Libraries ? Maybe a curse in orchestration? (I do have some). Or perhaps save for retirement..? 

Of course I really want to have the great sounds, so I am able to (long down the road) save the real recording of ex. a orchestra. - This require a maybe more powerful Mac than I own. But I also know that with what I have, I am able to make a lot of great sounding music, as well as I get more familiar with the stuff I have. 

Okay.. boring stuff.. But my point is: What have you done? - Maybe relating more to some of you more established film and TV composer. 

I would be very glad if you want to share some of your early experience? - On how or what you considered when you had some luck to earn money in this business, maybe? 

Thank you so much for at least reading this. - Maybe you are in the same boat as me..?

All the best
Rune


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## Rctec (May 29, 2016)

RRBE Sound said:


> Dear Everyone,
> 
> As I am new to this forum, I wasn't sure if this was the right topic to post in. But as my ''concern'' relate to all sorts of bits and pieces of ''gear'' I thought this should be okay.
> 
> ...


Composers never retire. It's not a normal job, we Play - and I want to play 'till I drop.
"A synth can buy you a house, but a house can't buy you a synth" ... Old quote of mine. What I meant was - and it's turned out true time and time again: an instrument can inspire you to write something that - in one moment - catapults you from no-where to having a career.
Always say "Yes, I can do it" and then figure out how to learn how to compose in the style of psychedelic country and western heavy metal for a string quartet.
You don't have to get the best or most expensive library or computer. I did a lot of scores on an Atari. 
The greater the financial limitations, the more inventive you get to be!
It's not rocket science, it's art!


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 29, 2016)

Rctec said:


> Composers never retire



I keep telling people I hope to be hitting my stride at 65-70 rather than retiring. Retirement is for people who don't want to carry on doing their job, and I intend to be writing music for as long as my body and mind will let me.


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## AllanH (May 29, 2016)

I have succeeded in a different business, so let me just give you that perspective: It's hard to be creative if you're desperate or under much stress. Make sure you have a "plan B", which can include teaching, consulting, working with established composers, etc. There is nothing wrong with having a plan B, and I'd actually say that planning to learn from someone established is a smart thing to do. One of my beginner mistakes was to assume that I had to be "in charge" to be successful. Jeg haaber det lykkes for dig.

Allan


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## AllanH (May 29, 2016)

wilx said:


> I keep telling people *I hope to be hitting my stride at 65-70* rather than retiring.



That's the quote of the day!


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## fantasiom (May 29, 2016)

If you decide to invest back into your studio, my advice is to be very picky about what you choose. Only spend money on things that inspire you, and push you creatively. You can do a lot with a little. I've been very fortunate to make a career in the film/tv music business and years ago when I got my first professional project, a TV movie for a network, I had an old mac book, headphones, and 4 sample libraries. I knew I was going to need some tweaky, percussive loops sounds but didn't own any libraries, nor had the money to buy them. Instead I took advice from the composer I was working for here in LA who said that he doesn't look though libraries for his perfect sound instead tries to find "raw material" with what he has to create the sound that is in his head. So I took one of my four libraries "storm drum" and filtered, delayed, mangled with whatever plugins came with Cubase and made a little loop library for myself. Funny enough it's still one of my favorite libraries I have, and I still draw upon it to this day. My point in this story, is that if you just buy whatever sounds cool and stuff your drive with a bunch of libraries and plugins, or thinking you need the next best piece of hardware, it in many ways can water down your creativity. So be picky and choosy about what your next purchase is and think about what kind of raw material it can provide for you to be inspired and more creative on your upcoming projects. You'll save money and probably write better music . 

I should mention that if you said that you didn't have a set of speakers I would have mentioned that first. A lot of composer invest in samples first, but without quality speakers (and a sub!) to hear to full spectrum of what you are doing, you're not getting a true representation of your creation.


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## YuHirà (May 29, 2016)

Hi RRBE Sound!

If I were you (but I'm not!!!  ), and if I didn' t need the money to live, I would record some personal pieces (or demos in a genre I would like to do in the future) with live musicians: an orchestra, a string quartet, or... just a soloist.

I'm pretty conviced that it is the best way to push forward a career (but I'm maybe wrong!!). By doing this, if you usually compose with virtual instruments, you place yourself among the limited number of composers who work with live musicians and deliver a music which goes much more difficult out of fashion. If you already work with live musicians, it's a great way to avoid categorisation IMHO.

Of course, if you compose electronic music, it's certainly not the best advice and you maybe better buy a new synth


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## RRBE Sound (May 29, 2016)

Rctec said:


> Composers never retire. It's not a normal job, we Play - and I want to play 'till I drop.
> "A synth can buy you a house, but a house can't buy you a synth" ... Old quote of mine. What I meant was - and it's turned out true time and time again: an instrument can inspire you to write something that - in one moment - catapults you from no-where to having a career.
> Always say "Yes, I can do it" and then figure out how to learn how to compose in the style of psychedelic country and western heavy metal for a string quartet.
> You don't have to get the best or most expensive library or computer. I did a lot of scores on an Atari.
> ...



Thank you for your answer. I do follow your philosophy and to be clear about ''retirement'', I am all about doing what I love until I am not able to any more.


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## RRBE Sound (May 29, 2016)

AllanH said:


> I have succeeded in a different business, so let me just give you that perspective: It's hard to be creative if you're desperate or under much stress. Make sure you have a "plan B", which can include teaching, consulting, working with established composers, etc. There is nothing wrong with having a plan B, and I'd actually say that planning to learn from someone established is a smart thing to do. One of my beginner mistakes was to assume that I had to be "in charge" to be successful. Jeg haaber det lykkes for dig.
> 
> Allan


Thank you Allan, 

Good point to learn and work with someone more established to gain more or better competence.

Mange tak!


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## RRBE Sound (May 29, 2016)

fantasiom said:


> If you decide to invest back into your studio, my advice is to be very picky about what you choose. Only spend money on things that inspire you, and push you creatively. You can do a lot with a little. I've been very fortunate to make a career in the film/tv music business and years ago when I got my first professional project, a TV movie for a network, I had an old mac book, headphones, and 4 sample libraries. I knew I was going to need some tweaky, percussive loops sounds but didn't own any libraries, nor had the money to buy them. Instead I took advice from the composer I was working for here in LA who said that he doesn't look though libraries for his perfect sound instead tries to find "raw material" with what he has to create the sound that is in his head. So I took one of my four libraries "storm drum" and filtered, delayed, mangled with whatever plugins came with Cubase and made a little loop library for myself. Funny enough it's still one of my favorite libraries I have, and I still draw upon it to this day. My point in this story, is that if you just buy whatever sounds cool and stuff your drive with a bunch of libraries and plugins, or thinking you need the next best piece of hardware, it in many ways can water down your creativity. So be picky and choosy about what your next purchase is and think about what kind of raw material it can provide for you to be inspired and more creative on your upcoming projects. You'll save money and probably write better music .
> 
> I should mention that if you said that you didn't have a set of speakers I would have mentioned that first. A lot of composer invest in samples first, but without quality speakers (and a sub!) to hear to full spectrum of what you are doing, you're not getting a true representation of your creation.



Thank you for a great reply. The first thing I bought was a set of medium speakers 

And a good piece of advice. I have my dad's old Nord Rack One, which I will use to make my own style.


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## RRBE Sound (May 29, 2016)

YuHirà said:


> Hi RRBE Sound!
> 
> If I were you (but I'm not!!!  ), and if I didn' t need the money to live, I would record some personal pieces (or demos in a genre I would like to do in the future) with live musicians: an orchestra, a string quartet, or... just a soloist.
> 
> ...



Hehe thank you. I am with you. 

As I am a classical musician and the first stuff I wrote was by hand and later in Sibelius, I always have the idea that what I compose can ''somewhat'' be played by musicians. 

But yea, maybe I should get my music recorded ?


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## H.R. (May 31, 2016)

Rctec said:


> "A synth can buy you a house, but a house can't buy you a synth" ... Old quote of mine.it's



I'm going to get this carved on a wood and hanged on my wall and of course penetrated in my mind.


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## JohnG (May 31, 2016)

I'm no expert, but my perception is that the market for music in Denmark could be rather different than in, say, Los Angeles. If the "art" impulse is strong where you live and you want to participate in it, I think that means a few things:

*1. Authenticity may be your most important asset.* In some markets, like Los Angeles, being able to cover a wide range of styles is somewhat useful and doesn't poison the water; people don't seem to mind if you work on silly comedies but you still want to pitch for "serious art films." From what I can discern from far away, I'm not so sure people are quite as flexible there. A film like the original "Let the Right One In" is so devastating in its original form and so different in every way from a Standard Action Film; movies like that have given me a perception of Scandinavia as more tolerant of, and more likely to embrace, artistically ambitious films. With that ambition, however, can come a disdain for more popular films and more instantly accessible music.

*2. Be yourself.* Leaving aside the commercial part of the "authenticity" point above, trying to dig at what _really_ makes you "you" is indispensable. There once was a career path for good imitators -- people who could "do" the styles of established composers -- but I think these days that just leads from one poorly paid, forgettable, often miserable gig to another. Ten thousand composers can (sort of) imitate the latest Big Score, but only you can be you. Try to figure out who that is.

*3. Use live players. * If your ambition is some day to have an orchestra at your disposal, it's vital to build continually on your experience with live players. Even if you can only afford a solo cello, or string quintet (or maybe 12) for a project, or a guitar and two other players, you learn so much writing for real people.

*4. Perform live.* The corollary to employing live players is to play live yourself. It's a good reminder to see what makes an audience stand up and dance / shout / cheer. Also, playing others' music (if that's what you're doing) can seed you with fragments or ideas off of which you can spin your own direction.


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## JPQ (May 31, 2016)

fantasiom said:


> If you decide to invest back into your studio, my advice is to be very picky about what you choose. Only spend money on things that inspire you, and push you creatively. You can do a lot with a little. I've been very fortunate to make a career in the film/tv music business and years ago when I got my first professional project, a TV movie for a network, I had an old mac book, headphones, and 4 sample libraries.



Is possible know which 4 libraries you used?


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## JohnG (May 31, 2016)

fantasiom said:


> I should mention that if you said that you didn't have a set of speakers I would have mentioned that first. A lot of composer invest in samples first, but without quality speakers (and a sub!) to hear to full spectrum of what you are doing, you're not getting a true representation of your creation.



very true.


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## A3D2 (Jun 12, 2016)

Don't forget about good acoustic treatment for your room: a point often forgotten. You can have great speakers and they may not serve you well if the room you are working in is untreated. If you cannot afford to acoustically treat your room with bass traps etc, a really good headphone might be interesting to double-check your mixes. Especially if it is for low-budget short films and you are the one doing the final mix for your score .


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## RRBE Sound (Jun 15, 2016)

That's true! 

I have bought the Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250 Ohm headphones. They seams to do a quite good job.
As I am moving soon, a sound treated room, is not an option, yet.

All the best
Rune


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## NoamL (Jun 19, 2016)

Agree 100% with JohnG, if you have money to blow, I would spend it on something that _only belongs to you forever_ and will impress the sort of director who wants original sounds (as opposed to the sort of director who just wants the most powerful, impactful, perfectly mixed score that's a rip of _Recent Popular Film_). Some examples of what you could buy:

- a small recording session of your best music not necessarily to picture

- recording a custom/private sample library of _original,_ _unorthodox_ instruments or techniques

- good plugins - but of the sound-mangling kind, not the mix-shinying-up kind

The one investment that pays off no matter what is a good room + good speakers


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## RRBE Sound (Jul 9, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Agree 100% with JohnG, if you have money to blow, I would spend it on something that _only belongs to _



I have been collecting some sample libraries, which I find inspiring to use. These should last a long time. I have also been dusting of my dads old synths'. Greats ones. - Now I just have to figure out how to use them.. 

I think as I am young, the room possibility is not that much of an option, yet. I do live in a inspiring environment near the Danish west coast, this kond of compensates for the lack of room.. I think.. ?


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## passsacaglia (Jul 9, 2016)

Hey man! (ps will answer PM soon, brother visiting from London so have some stuff to take care of) 

But my tips and what I am for:

1) Work on your OWN sound,find what's You and what you want to do. You can work in any field if you want, my assumption is that film makers want A) Existing sounds/themes for different scenes B) for music/motions, cool music but in any field such as clothing brands, sports cars, watches, sunglasses, expensive lady handbags you name it, people always want something "new" and something your friend or nanny don't have. 
To "sell" your name and your music I think you need to stick out from the bunch and be exclusive, not sound like everyone else. A repetitive subject here and among people, everyone can "sound" like Hans Zimmer for example or make mockups like any guy out there, it's just about learning.

2) Believe in yourself, work hard and do what you love, like me. 

3) Learn the basics (which you do at the moment), explore stuff, tweak stuff, find cool stuff, make your own sound (something I'm learning everyday from the EDM industry), A&R's want something new, something that will sell, something people would listen to. 

Personally, next to my education and my part time job, I have had sessions where I've been working with my own sound, makin it sound like "Oh this is Dave", try something new. I think that is the best way to go. 
Anyone can sound like someone else and existing pieces, but noone can "sound" like you.  
Work on it, work hard and don't give up. Will tell you more about this in PM as promised and your career will have a boost. I will still dream of a big house by the coast (LA, Aussie, anywhere), panorama glasses, very minimalistic with a gym on the top floor, a huge grand piano, a nice couch, some books, always good champagne and wines waiting to get popped and a nice lady (check!) waiting, and just play and make the music I want to write 

Haha ot but, doing my best. Up to you, do your best and hopefully you'll be "there" one lucky day 
Cheers from Stockholm!


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## passsacaglia (Jul 10, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Agree 100% with JohnG, if you have money to blow, I would spend it on something that _only belongs to you forever_ and will impress the sort of director who wants original sounds (as opposed to the sort of director who just wants the most powerful, impactful, perfectly mixed score that's a rip of _Recent Popular Film_). Some examples of what you could buy:
> 
> - a small recording session of your best music not necessarily to picture
> 
> ...


Speaking of monitors, 
Agree, I saved up to a good pair of Focals and their Alpha range. My brother just bought the Solo6be which are Da Best. 
Had Genelecs etc but, there's just something about the Focals that gets so natural, good sounding which I always lean to and my ears say "Oh! This! This is perfect!" about the sound. 

Check the Focal Alpha 60's, then you will get an even better low end. Atm I have the 50's which sound like 6,5" monitors and Alpha 60's sounds like even bigger like 8". Prefer the Focal sound over the Genelecs, think most of the models are a liittle too "harsh" or the highs tend to be a little too forward, only for 2% but still.


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## gsilbers (Jul 10, 2016)

RRBE Sound said:


> Dear Everyone,
> 
> As I am new to this forum, I wasn't sure if this was the right topic to post in. But as my ''concern'' relate to all sorts of bits and pieces of ''gear'' I thought this should be okay.
> 
> ...




1- sign up and follow different sample/software companies newsletters. They come up with flash sales or summer sales etc. so slowly you can buy sample libraries and software. 

2- watch video tutorials from other composers and see what they have and how its making it sound and see if you want or need that software/samples. 

3-check other composers studios images and see what they have, the equipment specs and then see if you need that and how much you need it. what are the alternative equipments and if those are good enough for you. 

4- check this forums's DAW section to see the gear being talked about and see the specs on the computers etx. 

5 - ask more specific questions on specifc gear. and ask around in different ways. the way you ask is the way youll get an answer. each thread might open a whole tangent on new gear, production methods and composing tehcniques.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 9, 2016)

Buy everything on sale or use demos when possible.


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## givemenoughrope (Aug 9, 2016)

Don't do what everyone else is doing. Use as many real instruments as possible. Meet real players that play exotic instruments or standard instruments in their own way and record them (remotely or at your place). Use real reverb, delays (tape or pedals), real synths, and augment them with plugins and samples. Don't borrow ideas/approaches; steal them and make them your own. Don't steal one; steal three.


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## givemenoughrope (Aug 9, 2016)

Or just use samples in a different way... Just be interesting gd-it!


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## Greg (Aug 9, 2016)

Invest in things that will inspire you! And that thing doesn't always have to be a production tool. Could be a trip to Iceland, front row at the Hollywood Bowl, or oil painting lessons. Cultivate your inner artistic self. That has helped me and likely many others much more than the gear.


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## RRBE Sound (Aug 11, 2016)

Desire Inspires said:


> Buy everything on sale or use demos when possible.


Haha..  Well that's a good idea. But I also think it is best to buy what you need, when you need it :?


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## Prockamanisc (Aug 11, 2016)

RRBE Sound said:


> I also think it is best to buy what you need, when you need it :?


In my experience, once it's Black Friday you'll pretty much know what you need, just buy it then. And do that every year...I just keep a list of things I need and wait. Sometimes different sales come up through the year to persuade me, too.


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 17, 2016)

I keep thinking back to "Beyond the Black Rainbow", not the greatest of "hallucinatory, period art films" (a misadvised, movie-bombing ending), however I like to imagine how satisfied the composer of that score must have been. I seriously doubt there was a huge amount of money paid out; however, I personally would have gladly accepted a credit and bare expenses for something that cool. That's how I think an artist thinks. to do or be part of something that will be admired for a time beyond death...

Of course, that's only one side of it and let's face it, nothing wrong with money (nor with liking it). Look at Richard Strauss, at certain points a devastatingly brilliant composer and orchestrator who made out pretty darn good on the cash end. Best of both worlds, just check out Salome....

And of course there's Mr. Zimmer, whom in my opinion accomplished the same with soundtracks like "Man of Steel", a soundtrack that imo would have been rapturously heroic, commercially and artistically successful even without the movie and put behind a Cannibal Corpse CD cover


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## passsacaglia (Aug 17, 2016)

Rune once again, I think that one of the best thing (like many others had said), best investment would be investment in yourself, time with yourself and the music -> that way you learn and level up.
 take this smart man's words for example:


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 17, 2016)

passsacaglia said:


> Rune once again, I think that one of the best thing (like many others had said), best investment would be investment in yourself, time with yourself and the music -> that way you learn and level up.
> take this smartass words for example:




Man, thanks for this *passsacaglia*. I never saw it before. Not sure how it's "smartass", but I'm grateful to see it.


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## passsacaglia (Aug 17, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> Man, thanks for this *passsacaglia*. I never saw it before. Not sure how it's "smartass", but I'm grateful to see it.


Dude np, I should change it ofc, he's a smart, ass guy  haha! Love that guy, the biography is top btw if you haven't read it. Yeah it really made my week, a good friend of my started this company called "DeoDoc", an intime deodorant and the brand has become huge now in Sweden and getting into more pharmacies..so yeah, she's a big inspiration and she shared that clip. Struggling with my master thesis this whole summer due to delays in permissions etc (thanks school) so it's been super messy, deadline tonight and still got stuff to do but ...after seeing that clip I'v been watching it every morning, unusual behaviour of me but, such a motivation for anything.

Made me narrow myself with things and also got me thinking that...the things I do, melodies and all the stuff I hear inside my head every day or anytime I am close to my piano is...like a sign, I love it, I spend hours and hours and...it's just something that I love, and that I want to do, only me can stop doing it and failing.
Really cheesy line but "do what you love, love what you do", think I saw it from some random yolo-chic's instagram account haha! Cheers (ps cool post few posts up, haha cannibal corpse, brings me back to early youths haha when I explored all kinds of metal). 

ps, for those of you who are familiar with Avicii, here's all threads made on this swedish studio forum (like GZ somehow), sometimes without any replies at all:
https://goo.gl/hBFNZW


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## RRBE Sound (Aug 21, 2016)

Again, it is great to have all of this great advice! - I am really taking it all in! 

Thank you guys so much! 

All the best
Rune


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