# Personal quirks and phobias - C Major, anyone?



## alphabetgreen (Mar 9, 2009)

I suppose as composers, we all have our quirks and phobias.

Mine is, composing in the major tonality. I seem to have this fear that anything that I write in a major key will sound frivolous and somewhat trivial. Yet, some of my favourite tunes are in this particular mode:

Sibelius - Karelia Suite (1st movement)
Beethoven - Fifth Symphony (finale)
Mahler - Fifth Symphony (adagietto)

I'm actually at a stage now where I force myself to keep a quota of works in a major key, because I fear that I may be labelled as the 'one who hides behind the minor 3rd'. And when I do write principally in the major key, there will be brief modulations to minor tonalities and I take care to avoid tonic and dominant chords as they are so obviously large a reminder of the key in question, filling the void with chromaticisms and surges into one of the church modes.

Does anybody else have a similar mild sort of phobia when it comes to composition?


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## Brian Ralston (Mar 9, 2009)

> Does anybody else have a similar mild sort of phobia when it comes to composition?



No...not really. 

But let me ask you a more philosophical question that may cause you to look at this in a new way. 

Do you notice how your perspective on writing in a major key...or _"hiding behind the minor 3rd"_ is really just you reacting to something that you are also giving the meaning to? 

In other words..you are defining it as something that will _"sound frivolous and somewhat trivial" _and then reacting negatively to avoid the very thing that you yourself defined as such. I see it again in your description about taking...


> "care to avoid tonic and dominant chords as *they are so obviously* large a reminder of the key in question, filling the void with chromaticisms and surges into one of the church modes."



While I think it is always a good thing to challenge ourselves to do things differently and to stretch our compositional techniques and expressions...at the same time, I do hear what you are saying and tend to think you are over analyzing the compositional process. 

Compose what you hear in your head and what you feel is right. If the key you hear it and feel it in is C major or something the world of "academia" would proclaim is frivolous...who cares what they think? Don't let them restrict what you are hearing in your head. Don't let yourself define certain rules which really are just arbitrary and then feel bound by those rules and definitions that you yourself gave it. Your music will not be less frivolous if the key were in Db minor than if it were in Bb Major. It is not more impressive to write in difficult keys or more meaningful to avoid certain conventions. It is what it is. If the music speaks to you and emotionally connects with some people...then it does. If it does not...that is ok too. "Music" transcends above the mathematics and physics of the soundwaves and becomes a universal language that has a greater meaning than the underlying technical details that are used to put it together. 

Well....I warned you it would be philosophical... :wink:


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## alphabetgreen (Mar 9, 2009)

Brian, that was some answer. The profundity of which I caught some of. I should really have just posed the variables as major and minor as opposed to specific keys. I myself personally, find it easier to create something that I, again personally, believe to be attractive to the ear if I am composing in the minor key. I can even write happy music in a minor key.

What you are in fact saying (I think) is that I should just write in whatever key comes naturally to the tune in my head. If that were to be the case, then I would always write in a minor key. I write what I like, and I like the minor key better than the major key (in most circumstances). However, just as Chris Eccleston quit acting the part of Doctor Who, because he didn't want to be always recognised as 'Doctor Who', I often take up the challenge of purposefully writing in the major key in order to avoid being recognised as 'the man who always writes in a minor key'.

You are right, I *am* over-analysing the compositional process, but it is *my* compositional process that I am analysing. 

I'm not saying that there is anything amiss with frivolity, far from it. I'm just saying that if I was asked to write something frivolous, I would probably do it in a minor key as well. :mrgreen:


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## Hannes_F (Mar 9, 2009)

alphabetgreen @ Mon Mar 09 said:


> Does anybody else have a similar mild sort of phobia when it comes to composition?



I feel I don't have the time to write irrelevant music (to me, that is).


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## TheoKrueger (Mar 9, 2009)

I think what keys you write in reflect your stance in life and towards yourself in general. Writing in Major is more playful, cheerful and positive, minor keys are more serious and emotional, but i would say that none of the two are in no way more or less important than the other.

I think the best pieces are a balance of the two. 50% 50%, how can you have real sadness if there was no happiness beforehand to miss?

think of Fur Elise. The whole piece is minor, but a part is in Major.

I think a balance is what most composers need. Its a matter of what you want to portray at the moment.

If you have phobias you should look at all keys as different friends to which you would have to adapt your personality to make -them- happy. Each of them has a different character but they all have something to offer. Be open, the rest of the chemistry happens on its own.


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## alphabetgreen (Mar 9, 2009)

TheoKrueger @ Tue 10 Mar said:


> I think what keys you write in reflect your stance in life and towards yourself in general. Writing in Major is more playful, cheerful and positive, minor keys are more serious and emotional, but i would say that none of the two are in no way more or less important than the other.
> 
> I think the best pieces are a balance of the two. 50% 50%, how can you have real sadness if there was no happiness beforehand to miss?
> 
> ...



Exactly! Thank you Theo, you hit the nail on the head. And that is why I do often challenge myself to adhere to the major tonality, to strike a balance. To do so in one piece (or even in one melody) successfully is very satisfying, not to mention rewarding (mind you, so is *all* composition). And it's right what you say, the 'sad' effect of minor does become more pronounced after writing in major.


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## adrianallan (Mar 10, 2009)

It is interesting to note that some of the saddest pieces of music are in a major key.

In fact a really skilled composer can write a piece in a major key that evokes a kind of gentle nostalgia.

I think that it's misleading to talk about "happy" and "sad" in music anyway...the great composers write with a broad emotional palette that crosses all manner of emotions; joy, rage, pity, tragedy ...and those "moods" which it is impossible to pin down with a mere word, as music can take you to places beyond the realm of language.

The best example of "sad" (I hate that word) music in a major key:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWgkwYweZEY


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## artsoundz (Mar 10, 2009)

Exactly- F drinks too much and B needs to exercise more. A on the other hand will give the shirt off it's back while the chord, G7 will steal your woman.

In short, one has to be VERY careful when writing music or it will f%$# you UP.


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## alphabetgreen (Mar 10, 2009)

mikebarry @ Tue 10 Mar said:


> Pan Diatonic music can be very sad - even in a major key.
> 
> 
> F# minor sounds the saddest to me, E minor sounds the coldest, B minor sounds the loneliest, Dminor sounds the angriest, Eb minor sounds the dullest.



You must have perfect pitch Mike. My sister (who has it) said that each key had a character of it's own. So if a piano tuner tuned all your keys a quarter tone out, but in perfect equal temperament, E 1/2 b minor would be a cold-hearted boring key, would it? :lol:


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## RiffWraith (Mar 10, 2009)

I have but one thing to add to this discussion. Some food for thought here:



alphabetgreen @ Tue Mar 10 said:


> Yet, some of my favourite tunes are in this particular mode:
> 
> Beethoven - Fifth Symphony (finale)



Awesome major key peice.* But * There is one reason it is awesome. Because of the minor key stuff that preceeds it. If it wasn't for that minor key stuff, would it still be effective? Sure. But not *as* effective.

Cheers.


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## alphabetgreen (Mar 10, 2009)

RiffWraith @ Wed 11 Mar said:


> I have but one thing to add to this discussion. Some food for thought here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I absolutely couldn't agree more. In fact it's one of the few pieces where I've welcomed the sudden climatic appearance of major.


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## RiffWraith (Mar 11, 2009)

alphabetgreen @ Wed Mar 11 said:


> I absolutely couldn't agree more. In fact it's one of the few pieces where I've welcomed the sudden climatic appearance of major.



You ever hear Mozart's 41st "Jupiter"?


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## alphabetgreen (Mar 11, 2009)

RiffWraith @ Wed 11 Mar said:


> alphabetgreen @ Wed Mar 11 said:
> 
> 
> > I absolutely couldn't agree more. In fact it's one of the few pieces where I've welcomed the sudden climatic appearance of major.
> ...



Sure, but I'll have to refamiliarise myself with it. I'll grab it from my mum's tonight.


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## clarkcontrol (Mar 16, 2009)

I do believe its easier to write a down-tempo minor than an up-tempo major.

Whether the minor piece is actually better than the major is something else entirely.

I play piano for ballet classes as a day gig, improvising classical major and minor etudes alternately throughout the class. Inevitably, when the choreography calls for a dramatic adagio, it is "easier" to reach for a minor. Still, I force myself to play whatever mode I've been dealt, as I feel that I need to give the same creative time to each sound. Otherwise, it will never get easier.

Now, I'm aware of the points made here in this thread, but we have to remember that the cultural references present in modern film scores are sufficiently darker than an equivalent from fifty years ago. So it feels more "natural" to hear that minor sound.

Love themes from the mid century were all in a major key, now, not that many (for example).

Back many hundreds of years ago, triplet meter was considered divine (symbolizing the holy trinity) while duple meter was lascivious and of the flesh. Now, however, most sacred music is in common time.

Clark


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