# Spitfire Audio - "It's all about to change" - BBCSO Core / Discover



## gtrwll

So this just came up on my feed at Facebook. Here we go again, get your chocolate and whatnot ready.

Any guesses? BBC Choir?


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## yiph2

It's orchestral for sure


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## Jimmy Hellfire

Well it's a game changer for sure. They're even kinda telling you right off the bat.


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## Geocranium

See you all 400 pages and 8000 comments later!


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## AndyP

Oh no, not again!


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## ChrisSiuMusic

I think we're to expect a library with lots of colours.


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## Technostica

Looks like it's going to be a colouring book. So a young person's guide to the orchestra, in colour!


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## Stringtree

"Priceless microphones, a world class hall. Each section of the orchestra recorded beyond the edge of silence."


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## Robert_G

I despise the way Spitfire Audio baits their customer base.


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## Eptesicus

Is it Spitfire... is it.

*sigh*


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## muziksculp

I wonder how many mic positions they have in this one


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## yiph2

Every mic in BBCSO + a POV mic for each player


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## Heartii

We need update of existing product, not new products every weeks.


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## Stringtree

Maaan, y'all are like carp in a pond. It's a BREADCRUMB, people!!!

No shame in my game. (*SHLORP SHLORP SHLORP*)


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## ka00

Stained glass window design kit?


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## Stringtree

Middle school band?


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## kgdrum

Wow I can feel Paul’s excitement here in NYC!!! 😃


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## gtrwll

You know, it very well could be the modern quarantine orchestra, where every player was sampled individually at their home with a mobile phone and then brought together.

Something like this:


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## N.Caffrey

Maybe we should all agree on a limit to how many times All can change? so I don't have to read it every month


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## axb312

Looks like they might be offering different sections/ instruments a-la carte?

Or the Pro version of BBCSO with reduced dynamic layers and even MORE mics...


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## muziksculp

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> I think we're to expect a library with lots of colours.



Yes, via a lot more mics to choose from


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## cqd

I suspect not much will change..


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## Jett Hitt

OMG! I'm so excited! I can't contain myself. Somebody call my therapist. Where's my Xanax? Has anyone told the President? Oh got to go. I think I soiled myself. BRB!


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## Stringtree

If I hear _wubwubwubwubwubwub_ I'm out.


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## EwigWanderer

One key magic orchestra. You'll need only C4 to amaze your clients. But I trust N more for one key wonders...it works every time.

Or Spitfire has find a cure for covid 19??


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## Zero&One

cqd said:


> I suspect not much will change..



Bank balances and credit card statements will


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## jbuhler

Not a game changer, but an all changer.

I'm going with the new SSO Pro, maybe rebranded yet again.


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## Zedcars

I think they mean it's all about _*the*_ change?


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## emasters

How many times can it be a "game changer"...? The same message, so often. A bit numb to it all now. Would be great to get a fresh Spitfire marketing approach. Do like their products, but the marketing has become predictable and dull. Yawn.........


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## gst98

From the colours, it looks like an SSO update. I think the effects of repackaging the same samples from a decade ago wore of the alst few times they did it...


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## christianhenson

Page 2!

I pitched this idea to the team with a "this is a death-bed opportunity"

they looked on blankly..

"...where we think to ourselves, we did THAT".

Cannot emote, emoji or indeed be histrionic enough about how mahooooosive this is.


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## Stringtree

Jack Sparrow Pool Noodle Orchestra.


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## christianhenson

Stringtree said:


> Jack Sparrow Pool Noodle Orchestra.



Fuckit it rumbled again.... how DID you guess???


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## Mars

It's not meant to be a game changer. 
My guess is that it's simple, and litteral : something already existing is going to change. 

The design seems to imply a separation by instruments, maybe we're gonna be able to buy each instrument separately ? From BBCSO or Spitfire orchestra


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## Artemi

Mars said:


> It's not meant to be a game changer.
> My guess is that it's simple, and litteral : something already existing is going to change.
> 
> The design seems to imply a separation by instruments, maybe we're gonna be able to buy each instrument separately ? From BBCSO or Spitfire orchestra


that would be cool


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## ridgero

My Guess:

A revised version of the SSO -> "It's about to change"

Spitfire Player + new GUI options
More Mic Positions inc. Mix 1 and Mix 2
Well Balanced
Remember: They said the Additional Mic positions for the SSO will be out in 2020.
I don't think they will do something new just because of the COVID 19 stuff.


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## Zero&One

christianhenson said:


> they looked on blankly..
> 
> "...where we think to ourselves, we did THAT".



Please tell me you got these guys!


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## KallumS

Kazoo ensemble


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## Stringtree

Don't we have enough that's gone viral?

Seriously, as much as we kvetch, Spitfire is a big part of our lives. I can't wait.


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## GingerMaestro

My guess would be the ability to buy just the sections you would like from a library, maybe SSO or BBCSO ? Like an old fashioned Woolworths pick and mix type experience....


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## Wally Garten

emasters said:


> How many times can it be a "game changer"...? The same message, so often. A bit numb to it all now. Would be great to get a fresh Spitfire marketing approach. Do like their products, but the marketing has become predictable and dull. Yawn.........



Coming May 7... this changes NOTHING.


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## reutunes

Do you remember when BT Phobos changed everything?
Do you remember when Hans Zimmer Strings changed everything?
Do you remember when BBCSO changed everything?

Check your expectations at the door, folks.


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## Eptesicus

emasters said:


> How many times can it be a "game changer"...? The same message, so often. A bit numb to it all now. Would be great to get a fresh Spitfire marketing approach. Do like their products, but the marketing has become predictable and dull. Yawn.........



Spitfire's marketing makes me nauseous


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## AndyP

Mars said:


> It's not meant to be a game changer.
> My guess is that it's simple, and litteral : something already existing is going to change.
> 
> The design seems to imply a separation by instruments, maybe we're gonna be able to buy each instrument separately ? From BBCSO or Spitfire orchestra


Cool. Then I can also return individual instruments from original BBCSO? Or trade them in? A Horn player for a Triangle player?


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## Uiroo

As far as I'm concerned, the biggest change SF managed to pull of was through their extremely annoying marketing. 
Image change that is.


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## babylonwaves

gtrwll said:


> Any guesses? BBC Choir?


strawberry cheese cake. i knew it.


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## Jett Hitt

AndyP said:


> Cool. Then I can also return individual instruments from original BBCSO? Or trade them in? A Horn player for a Triangle player?



Grrrr. . . . that horn😠


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## AndyP

Jett Hitt said:


> Grrrr. . . . that horn😠


I would also swap a horn player from the existing library for one with an extremely strong lung who can make it to fff+. For 1 minute without turning blue.


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## TomislavEP

MSO. Modular Symphonic Orchestra


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## Zedcars

They won this sought-after prize last year. Could it be a win for 2020 also?


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## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> Not a game changer, but an all changer.
> 
> I'm going with the new SSO Pro, maybe rebranded yet again.



With a whole lot more Mic Positions


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## easyrider

christianhenson said:


> Cannot emote, emoji or indeed be histrionic enough about how mahooooosive this is.



The product or the price ?


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## ptram

Subcontrabasses. They are marked in red behind the basses.

The change is referred to your speaker's cones.

Paolo


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## Sears Poncho

I hope it's not an orchestra. Who the hell is behind the first fiddles? Why are the seconds so small? And FFS, let's spread out peeps....


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## kitekrazy

Subscription model?


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## dzilizzi

+1 or 6 on the SSO porting to the Spitfire player with additional mics. 

Though the deathbed statement could definitely mean something at Maida Vale. Maybe recording the destruction sounds for a sound effect library that includes a grid and some orchestra instruments?


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## muziksculp

You also get masked mic option for that Covid-19 sonic character.


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## givemenoughrope

I bet it's a sample library


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## newman

Not falling for this again.


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## artomatic

Subscription


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## Stringtree

Prescription only.


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## davidson

christianhenson said:


> they looked on blankly..



Doesn't bode well.


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## JPComposer

Is it the choir?


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## Jimmy Hellfire

The main question is, how many super sul tastos, CS flautandos and super silky harmonics can they fit in here?


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## ridgero

A balanced & revised SSO upgrade for a new Spitfire Player would be fantastic.


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## Saxer

It was always Spitfire that changed everything? Ok, then can you please undo the virus, the brexit and the tories?


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## johe

A re-release of the SSO in their own plugin seems most likely to me - or some kind of expansion for or lite version of the BBCSO (fewer signals maybe?).

I sincerely hope it isn’t the latter cause I’ve just recently bought the damn thing even though I’ll probably never use more than half of the included signals...


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## Artemi

johe said:


> A re-release of the SSO in their own plugin seems most likely to me - or some kind of expansion for or lite version of the BBCSO (fewer signals maybe?).
> 
> I sincerely hope it isn’t the latter cause I’ve just recently bought the damn thing even though I’ll probably never use more than half of the included signals...


what mics are useful to you?


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## CT

reutunes said:


> Do you remember when BBCSO changed everything?



It did for me, and I'm certain the other two probably did for some people as well, so I think I will keep my own counsel about expectations and when to check them.


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## johe

Artemi said:


> what mics are useful to you?



I didn’t want to imply that some of the mics are not useful (which most of them can be for various coloring or positioning purposes, IMO). It’s more lack of mixing knowledge combined with not enough hardware power on my side to REALLY make use of it (meaning: I can’t really work with a full template with more than two mics at once - which is why some kind of „lite“ version would have made a lot of sense in my case).


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## ridgero

Now:






Before:


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## zimm83

They will......return 100 % to KONTAKT !


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## John R Wilson

I'm hoping that this is something to do with the BBCSO. Possibly a really good update for it! looking at the diagram I would guess that it could be an update that includes whole section ensemble patches for the BBCSO, that would make the BBCSO great for sketching out ideas. it could also be an expansion of content, such as the bass flute and the piano or improved legatos/improved brass section. It could also be an update to the spitfire player itself.


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## jamwerks

They talked years back about bringing SSS to the level of SCS art wise. Hoping for this with also added mics and on new player. 

Also hoping for a dedicated complete WW library done in MV.


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## Zero&One

Highly doubt this is a library update, BBC lite version or a library port.

Considering Christian said:
"I pitched this idea to the team with a "this is a death-bed opportunity"....
"Cannot emote, emoji or indeed be histrionic enough about how mahooooosive this is"

Doesn't make sense


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## kgdrum

christianhenson said:


> Fuckit it rumbled again.... how DID you guess???




@christianhenson  : this is your friend in NYC is it the Parliament Funkadelic library you’ve been working on?

Either way is Paul excited?

Be well
KG

😍


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## rottoy

@christianhenson How's my aim?


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## blue book

I'm hoping for a Deep Purple "Concerto" addition to the SSO. Hammond organ, Fender Strat, screaming vocals.


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## PaulieDC

I just want the price list to change... 50% off for a week, lol!

I know, I know... this won't be a price thing, it'll be a new library. Last time I predicted LSO completely sampled, totally wrong orchestra.

I wouldn't mind the Glenn Miller Orchestra totally sampled (it's in its 14th iteration probably). That'd be SA's answer to OT Glory Days. But as usual I don't have a clue.


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## purple

they said that the last 800 times


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## Technostica

I hope it's an ensemble library featuring bongos, saxophones, ukuleles and a single didgeridoo (more than one is still illegal in the UK unless you wear tie-die and stink of patchouli oil).
It will have to come with a health warning and enforced social distancing of at least 2 miles.


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## Reid Rosefelt

After 

ALBION ONE

there was 

ALBION NEO 

On May 7th

ALBION ENO





​


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## NathanTiemeyer

Don't mind me, I just want to comment before this thread becomes 100 pages long


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## Jeremy Spencer

Where’s @staypuft when you need him?


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## Consona

Resells confirmend?


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## Jon W

Perhaps a new interface? Larger as well?


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## rottoy

TigerTheFrog said:


> After
> 
> ALBION ONE
> 
> there was
> 
> ALBION NEO
> 
> On May 7th
> 
> ALBION ENO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​







Henson Eno has got a nice ring to it.


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## chrisr

Zero&One said:


> Please tell me you got these guys!



very good


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## korgscrew2000

*YAWN* This is THE worst time to release a new library. Most people struggling for work. 

I'm going for at least 35 pages before it's released.


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## Scalms

41% off spring wish list sale


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## Denkii

Single section purchases and/or subscription based service confirmed.
Trololo


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## kgdrum

korgscrew2000 said:


> *YAWN* This is THE worst time to release a new library. Most people struggling for work.
> 
> I'm going for at least 35 pages before it's released.




Maybe Spitfire will be releasing the ultimate free Orchestral library, that would be a change! 👍


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## gst98

kgdrum said:


> Maybe Spitfire will be releasing the ultimate free Orchestral library, that would be a change! 👍



Well releasing something free could be the death bed part.


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## kgdrum

gst98 said:


> Well releasing something free could be the death bed part.




Kidding aside Spitfire is probably the last company anyone can say doesn’t give away free libraries but Orchestral? That would certainly be epic!


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## dzilizzi

Although, truthfully, they release a lot free with the LABs


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## youngpokie

Zero&One said:


> Highly doubt this is a library update, BBC lite version or a library port.
> 
> Considering Christian said:
> "I pitched this idea to the team with a "this is a death-bed opportunity"....
> "Cannot emote, emoji or indeed be histrionic enough about how mahooooosive this is"
> 
> Doesn't make sense



The way the sections in the Instagram image are outlined vs the typical SA diagram, I think the idea of ability to buy individual groups/sections is interesting. And it would be a "mahooooooosive" change to the business model - especially for their own player. What I don't understand is the split of cellos and violins into 2 groups...


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## Pincel

Denkii said:


> Single section purchases and/or subscription based service confirmed.
> Trololo



I would actually be up for this, single sections purchases of the BBCSO would be pretty cool, but I don't know if they would do it. I think the subscription service seems more likely, which could also be great, but who knows.

But please keep it going, the thread is pretty hilarious so far! xD


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## Go To 11

korgscrew2000 said:


> *YAWN* This is THE worst time to release a new library. Most people struggling for work.
> 
> I'm going for at least 35 pages before it's released.


Let's take bets. 25 pages before release.


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## pawelmorytko

Wolfie2112 said:


> Where’s @staypuft when you need him?


He's the only person who's demos could convince me to buy this library


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## kgdrum

Pincel said:


> I would actually be up for this, single sections purchases of the BBCSO would be pretty cool, but I don't know if they would do it. I think the subscription service seems more likely, which could also be great, but who knows.
> 
> But please keep it going, the thread is pretty hilarious so far! xD




I actually think a subscription would be the last thing Spitfire would ever do.
They've been way too successful and think about how much it would piss off all of the users (like the majority of VI-C members)who have spent thousands of $$$$ buying their libraries.
I think ala carte is way more likely especially if they could get the ball up and running before Orchestral Tools gets momentum with this concept.


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## Gzu

Subscription service, without a doubt!!


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## MauroPantin

Mariachi band recorded at the edge of silence


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## Stringtree

Tundra was hyped, was it not? You had Christian creeping through heaths or whatever, bursting at the seams while whispering. The result? A Freakin Great Product that I use every time I turn the machine on.

Kepler was hyped, with orbital mechanics videos and Doppler wubwubwub stuff, and it wasn't my kind of thing because I need to learn conventional orchestration. 

Neo arrived after some cheeky Nordic mountain stuff, and I already had smaller sections with Loegria. So that too wasn't for me. 

The mystique of BBC started with a radio broadcast, then ended with a wallop of a library that offers an orchestra in a box, with a pedigree and a quality that's not really anywhere else. A modern thing. How many pages were spent on that, trying to figure out what it was?

Going back to deep roots, after the bespoke library stuff, Spitfire branded their original Albion with antique large-format landscape photos, and that fit very well with a library of imperfect samples that fit perfectly with dirt, grit, and emotion. I still use the legacy Albion before newer stuff nearly always.

Did you expect anything different? The teasing is annoying, though. 

However, I've watched too many videos to even slightly suspect they're not proud of whatever's coming out soon. 

Greg


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## jbuhler

kgdrum said:


> I think ala carte is way more likely especially if they could get the ball up and running before Orchestral Tools gets momentum with this concept.


Back in the days of BML, SSO was offered more or less ala carte. So it would just be going back to those roots.


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## gst98

I wonder kind of shrubbery Christian will emerge from to unveil this one.


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## kgdrum

gst98 said:


> I wonder kind of shrubbery Christian will emerge from to unveil this one.




I suspect he will emerge from the new Spitfire Cannibis facility in Humbolt County where they are engineering a new strain that’s so good when you imbibe you feel like you are Lyndhurst Hall!


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## Gingerbread

When everything is a game-changer, nothing is a game-changer.


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## dzilizzi

kgdrum said:


> I actually think a subscription would be the last thing Spitfire would ever do.
> They've been way too successful and think about how much it would piss off all of the users (like the majority of VI-C members)who have spent thousands of $$$$ buying their libraries.
> I think ala carte is way more likely especially if they could get the ball up and running before Orchestral Tools gets momentum with this concept.


The thing is, with Kontakt, a la carte cost more to do. With their own player, it is much easier. This is why OT went to their own player.


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## kgdrum

dzilizzi said:


> The thing is, with Kontakt, a la carte cost more to do. With their own player, it is much easier. This is why OT went to their own player.




Bingo 🛎


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## Vik

Looks like a pretty standard orchestral setup to me, except that they may have followed up on the earlier idea from someone in some thread about adding a sax section (unless for those who pay extra to not have it included). It's probably the position in the lower right corner (close to the emergency exit, for obvious reasons).


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## Sean J

Signal chain: great mics, players, rooms, AE's, but... agility issues.

Note lengths, dynamic responsiveness, consistent technique abilities, and legato agility is superb in Aaron Venture's libraries. If May 7th improved agility, I'd pay attention. If they did it for StaffPad, I'd likely even buy it.

My b-day is next week. Maybe it's a sign.


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## Guffy

Ooh, this looks interesting! In SITU as well


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## Zedcars

Zero&One said:


> Please tell me you got these guys!


Don’t know why, but I always thought of Bungle as Chewie’s long lost cousin...


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## Alex Fraser

Unlike you lot, I love a good Spitfire hype. One doesn't have to take it too literally or seriously.

Right - predictions. I think it's a repackage of the SSO. The colours of the orchestral section in the graphic appear to match the branding of the SSO. So, green for strings, blue for woods and red for brass. I'm sure someone has already brought this up, 6 pages in.

So the "surprise-death-bed" thing? Maybe it's a big price drop/lite version aimed at tight budgets. There's form here for SF with the StaffPad and Luna releases of the SSO.






A lightweight SF orchestra for beginners, mobile rigs and laptops? Bring it please.


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## cqd

Maybe he has the covid..


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## coprhead6

Spitfire support told me that the Professional versions of the SSO were being released in 2020. This might be the “Professional SSO”


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## dzilizzi

cqd said:


> Maybe he has the covid..


I hope not.


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## cqd

dzilizzi said:


> I hope not.


Me too..


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## gyprock

Covid-20


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## Scalms

Seriously though, last year's Spring Wish list sale was around this time. It could be "8Dio style" discount of 60% of all libraries. That would be huuuuge (50% off is only huuuge).


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## asherpope

Deeply sampled Trivial Pursuit pie pieces recorded in a disused Zeppelin hangar at the very edge of silence. Probably


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## kgdrum

dzilizzi said:


> I hope not.




Nothing to joke about some of us have actually lost family members and friends to this.
Try living here in NYC,the last thing you will be joking about is someone getting Covid-19

🤕


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## Kony

Heartii said:


> We need update of existing product, not new products every weeks.


Funny you should say that - I opened the HZ perc pro timpani (AM mix) last night as I forgot why I haven't been using it and noted that C2 triggers C2 and then the other samples starting at C5 also triggered C2 etc. In other words, the mapping is buggered. 

Stuff like this not being fixed has turned me off SA permanently. None of my other libraries are as broken as SA's.


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## cqd

Kony said:


> Funny you should say that - I opened the HZ perc pro timpani (AM mix) last night as I forgot why I haven't been using it and noted that C2 triggers C2 and then the other samples starting at C5 also triggered C2 etc. In other words, the mapping is buggered.



Is that not by design so you can play it two handed?


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## David Kudell




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## Kony

cqd said:


> Is that not by design so you can play it two handed?


No - you can see C5 triggering C2 on the Kontakt keyboard


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## MarcelM

i would hope for a subscription service... i will bite. are you listening, spitifre?


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## MaxOctane

christianhenson said:


> Cannot emote, emoji or indeed be histrionic enough about how mahooooosive this is.



Glad to see @christianhenson is finally toning it down in these pre-announcements


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## NoamL

Bring on the skepticism & photoshop fun, I don't care,* SSO was the best purchase I made in the last year *(before that, CSB of course!).

I'm excited for this because it's orchestral and the graphic appears to imply something about sections. Like @Sears Poncho noted this isn't a normal orchestral seating diagram which might indicated either it's a stylized logo or it actually represents something new they've done.

My money is on some update/augmentation to SSO. Reasons:

1. BBCSO is already their 2nd fullscale orchestral product after SSO, so I don't expect a third product in yet another setup/location. If that is the case, then it probably isn't as "deep" a library as SSO (as indeed BBCSO already wasn't, although BBCSO sounds great at some things).

2. The different colors clearly imply different sections, looks like strings, brass, winds, and either perc or "something else"

3. SSO mic update was supposed to come out this year

4. SSO in Spitfire Player is a clear medium/long term goal for them

5. SSO hasn't been updated since 2017/2018-ish? It makes sense that they would go back around to it after BBCSO was their big orchestral product of 2019.


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## Alex Fraser

Go To 11 said:


> Does porting the samples over to their own player, or giving us the old extra mic positions, or a few new instruments count as big to you? That's what I'm not so sure about... If it's a repackaging, they really, really can't describe everything as changing, but I fear we lost the real meaning of change a while ago... Personally I think this points to a new release, or they've just totally lost the plot with their hype.


The "hype" or change could be the position in the market.

_"Previously only available at the wrong side of a grand, Spitfire now bring you the same world class sounds the pros use in a new, streamlined, easy to use package at a brand new price point."_ (With a single mic and other reductions.)

A price low enough to appeal to every composer stuck in isolation for a limited time. Maybe even a percentage of proceeds going to Covid related good causes.

The Pro SSO version could enter at the existing $1500 price point, with the BBCSO smack in the middle.

It's fun to guess and pontificate, anyhow. I probably should be working.


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## NoamL

Go To 11 said:


> Does porting the samples over to their own player, or giving us the old extra mic positions, or a few new instruments count as big to you? That's what I'm not so sure about... If it's a repackaging, they really, really can't describe everything as changing, but I fear we lost the real meaning of change a while ago... Personally I think this points to a new release, or they've just totally lost the plot with their hype.



On a scale from 1 to Christian accidentally saying "fuck" at a product launch?

New (old) mic positions: 7/10 - the outriggers will be extremely useful on strings and also maybe brass, and the JJ mixes will save everyone resources if they choose to use them.

Port to SF player: 2/10 - Kontakt works fine for me & see no reason to change much less redo template

Price reduction: 4/10 - good for people who don't have it yet!

New articulations: 6/10 - intrigued, the product feels complete but whatever they add will probably be interesting

New auxiliary instruments in AIR: fuck


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## gyprock

Announcement could be BBCSO on StaffPad.


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## gussunkri

gyprock said:


> Announcement could be BBCSO on StaffPad.


Except that feels more Paul-ish than Christian-y.


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## Vik

Here's some of what I think they'll end up doing, maybe some of it will happen this time.

Sell one section at a time, maybe starting with strings.
Port more of their stuff over to their own player – and update it, so it does more of what the German competition does. Avoding Kontakt could also make their stuff more affordable.
Make their stuff more affordable. I've already bought many of of their libraries, so it's not so important for me – but sometimes lowering the price means more profit/more happy customers.
Go through all their legato/portamento transitions and update them to be as good as we know they can make them. 
If it's a new product that is meant as a new flagship string product, consider at least one more dynamic layer, a brilliant rebow implementation and at least one additional velocity controlled attack option.
Make an affordable version by only including one mic option - no other compromises. That should IMHO be the best of the stereo mix options. 
Divisi/multiple sections for each of the string instruments - all within the same product.


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## MarcelM

i hope they will listen to you @Vik 

everything what you wrote makes sense and would be very nice!


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## Jazzaria

Spitfire Audio Secret Business Plan

Become major player in orchestral sample library space
Build unstoppable hype train machine, resulting in endless forum threads
With human composers distracted, release an AI that takes over and writes 99% of all orchestral cues for the entertainment industry


----------



## LamaRose

Spring Sale + Subscription + New Library(subscription only) + a la carte(spring sale only) + plus something really UUUUGE coming June 7. 

Or at least a three-ring circus of choices.


----------



## muziksculp

If it's another Strings Library, please don't forget to add Staccattisimo, and Staccatto articulations. Having only Spiccatto for short articulations isn't good enough.


----------



## Michael Stibor

emasters said:


> How many times can it be a "game changer"...? The same message, so often. A bit numb to it all now. Would be great to get a fresh Spitfire marketing approach. Do like their products, but the marketing has become predictable and dull. Yawn.........


----------



## ism

Except if course all the times when it really has been a game changer. 

Of course, if you’re happy with the game you’re playing at the moment staying as it is, well that’s cool too.


----------



## Virtuoso

gtrwll said:


> So this just came up on my feed at Facebook. Here we go again, get your chocolate and whatnot ready.
> 
> Any guesses? BBC Choir?


I think they just got the date wrong.


----------



## dcoscina

I think it’s the PDQ Bach library they’ve not even whispered about. 259 mic’s on kazoos, slide whistles, out of tune brass players and quarter tone strings and winds. I’ve got my CC waiting!!


----------



## dcoscina

Wait I have it! They’ve partnered with Orchestral Tools! What do I win?


----------



## Mike Fox




----------



## dzilizzi

NoamL said:


> Bring on the skepticism & photoshop fun, I don't care,* SSO was the best purchase I made in the last year *(before that, CSB of course!).
> 
> I'm excited for this because it's orchestral and the graphic appears to imply something about sections. Like @Sears Poncho noted this isn't a normal orchestral seating diagram which might indicated either it's a stylized logo or it actually represents something new they've done.
> 
> My money is on some update/augmentation to SSO. Reasons:
> 
> 1. BBCSO is already their 2nd fullscale orchestral product after SSO, so I don't expect a third product in yet another setup/location. If that is the case, then it probably isn't as "deep" a library as SSO (as indeed BBCSO already wasn't, although BBCSO sounds great at some things).
> 
> 2. The different colors clearly imply different sections, looks like strings, brass, winds, and either perc or "something else"
> 
> 3. SSO mic update was supposed to come out this year
> 
> 4. SSO in Spitfire Player is a clear medium/long term goal for them
> 
> 5. SSO hasn't been updated since 2017/2018-ish? It makes sense that they would go back around to it after BBCSO was their big orchestral product of 2019.


SSO sections have been updated in the past year. They do fix stuff, it's just slow.


----------



## bvaughn0402

I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt ...

But if it is anything that seems to shelve BBCSO, I think I might be done with Spitfire for a while.

To me there is so much potential with BBCSO, I would think it should have a longer shelf life.

This is where I like OT's model ... although it used to frustrate me long ago. Why not release a base library that you continue to develop and expand over the years? 

So I hope there are updates or expansions to BBCSO.

Release ONE game changer, and then mature and expand it over several years.

Not (hopefully) release a new "game changer" every 3-6 months (that seems to replace the last "game changer") ...


----------



## Pincel

kgdrum said:


> I actually think a subscription would be the last thing Spitfire would ever do.
> They've been way too successful and think about how much it would piss off all of the users (like the majority of VI-C members)who have spent thousands of $$$$ buying their libraries.
> I think ala carte is way more likely especially if they could get the ball up and running before Orchestral Tools gets momentum with this concept.



Yeah, you're probably right, that makes sense.


----------



## yiph2

Spitfire support probably answered that a million times even before the BBCSO launch...


----------



## MaxOctane

mikefrommontreal said:


>



WHAT DOES THE PAPER SAY???


----------



## Fleer

I think they’re upping BBCSO with lots of new contents as a grand gesture to early adopters and an incentive to everyone else. Oh yeah!


----------



## Dandezebra

Virtuoso said:


> I think they just got the date wrong.



Ha! You beat me to it! I totally saw R2's head when I first looked at it!


----------



## jcrosby

Sears Poncho said:


> I hope it's not an orchestra. Who the hell is behind the first fiddles? Why are the seconds so small? And FFS, let's spread out peeps....



*YOU WIN THE THREAD SIR.*


----------



## NYC Composer

Deeply sampled wombat death cries


----------



## Fleer

NYC Composer said:


> Deeply sampled wombat death cries


DSWDC!


----------



## Michel Simons

Saxer said:


> It was always Spitfire that changed everything? Ok, then can you please undo the virus, the brexit and the tories?



And also the last four Marillion albums.


----------



## MaxOctane

All joking aside (_and boy do these guys give us plenty to joke about!!_) I'm delighted and looking forward to another awesome Spitfire launch. I've gotten much joy from Spitfire's work over the years, and even their more controversial products have delivered for me.

Best of luck on May 7th, @paulthomson @christianhenson 

(And while we're at it, sending much love to @OrchestralTools, @Sonokinetic BV, all the big guys and all the indies out there!)


----------



## Loïc D

One word : subscription


----------



## devonmyles

At least it's all going to change on May the 7th and not May the 4th. I couldn't stand an internet bun fight over bragging rights with the Star Wars mob.


----------



## Soundhound

Tea leaves. It’s tea leaves. An orchestra of tea leaves. Get it? Tea lea... never mind.


----------



## TGV

It's the bass flute, isn't it?


----------



## lgmcben

It's already 8 pages? But 90% are jokes/memes. Guess people are already immuned to this type of marketing tease.


----------



## doctoremmet

ridgero said:


> Spitfire Player + new GUI options


First thing I thought, yes


----------



## TomislavEP

Whatever this is, I'm certain about one thing: I won't be in a position to buy it, and it's likely something I can do without even if I could.

Except if this has something to do with Spitfire Spring Sale, which I seriously doubt. Speaking of which, more and more it seems there won't be one this year.


----------



## Nemoy

It's "all" about to change? Hope this doesn't actually mean they will be moving all their libraries now into their Spitfire player. Lol.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Nightmare scenario, Spitfire making another mahooosive announcement, all the VI-C members are on lockdown at home with time on their hands, a forum thread that is already too long.....

@Mike Greene be like......


----------



## Zedcars

Michael Antrum said:


> Nightmare scenario, Spitfire making another mahooosive announcement, all the VI-C members are on lockdown at home with time on their hands, a forum thread that is already too long.....
> 
> @Mike Greene be like......


I’m also going to need a bigger SSD and bank balance at this rate!


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

At this stage I feel like an actual 'game changer' would be a something like an Infinite samples or Samplemodeling approach, but with Spitfire's might behind it. I feel like there's now an assumption that everything they put out must be separated into 'legato', 'trill', 'spiccato' etc - how about putting some serious energy into R&D and transforming the landscape like VSL did way back with performance legato?

Even a refined version of what Adventure Strings or Caspian do would be ace.

Maybe that's exactly what they mean when they say _it's *all* about to change_ though!


----------



## Vik

Nemoy said:


> It's "all" about to change? Hope this doesn't actually mean they will be moving all their libraries now into their Spitfire player. Lol.


That would be fine with me with a new version of their player - if it’s is better than Kontakt in all possible ways.


----------



## Eptesicus

Richard Wilkinson said:


> At this stage I feel like an actual 'game changer' would be a something like an Infinite samples or Samplemodeling approach, but with Spitfire's might behind it. I feel like there's now an assumption that everything they put out must be separated into 'legato', 'trill', 'spiccato' etc - how about putting some serious energy into R&D and transforming the landscape like VSL did way back with performance legato?
> 
> Even a refined version of what Adventure Strings or Caspian do would be ace.
> 
> Maybe that's exactly what they mean when they say _it's *all* about to change_ though!




No, no, no, no you have it all wrong.

What we need is more static flautando sustains recorded in Air Lyndhurst.


----------



## redlester

May 7th is just a week away, which is a lot less time to eat chocolate than we had for BBC SO, so I don't think this thread will have time to reach anything like those proportions. Unless May 7th is just the date of the reveal and whatever it is doesn't actually become available for two months...

I've been quite adamant over the past year that they surely won't move away from Kontakt for their existing flagship SSO and SCO products, but am now not so sure given the new Luna instruments as mentioned previously. Having used it more and more, I have no issues with their GUI, I think their biggest hurdle would be making it multi-timbral for people who are accustomed to working that way.*

Am tempted to say "lets wait and see" but that's not how this works, is it. When do we expect the next teaser to drop? Tomorrow or Saturday? (Note; the marketing mentions "change" but hasn't actually used the phrase "game changer").

*Edit: Thinking it through more, surely it would be an alternative "lite" version rather than a replacement, because they would need to maintain support for existing Kontakt users who don't want to change, which could become a lot of unnecessary work for them. 

So my hope/expectation is that it's the long promised expansions to SSO, in some form or another.


----------



## Technostica

I am very excited to speculate that this relates to Paul Thompson's involvement in a charity event. 
First he will shave his beard, then he will undertake a full marathon indoors; that's about 3 laps of his home studio.


----------



## redlester

Technostica said:


> First he will shave his beard, then he will undertake *a full marathon* indoors;



That's "Snickers" for our younger readers.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

I hope they realize that this marketing becomes a joke haha... Flying over the 1st page of the thread 95% of the responses seem to be puns!


----------



## jamwerks

I'm thinking it's the 4 SSO libraries ported to the SF player (shouldn't they find a cool name for it?), with added arts, playable patches, and new art control features.

And hopefully also a major Spring sale!


----------



## Michael Antrum

DarkestShadow said:


> I hope they realize that this marketing becomes a joke haha... Flying over the 1st page of the thread 95% of the responses seem to be puns!



To be fair to the marketing department, they've got to make statements like this.

Can you imagine, 'Spitfire Audio Proundly Presents - More of The Same !', or ' Spitfires Audios latest product - 'Yet another String FX Library'. And for Spitfire at least, it seems to work.

Anyway, posting on threads like this allows me to procrastinate even more, which as we all know, is a critical part of the composition process...



jamwerks said:


> I'm thinking it's the 4 SSO libraries ported to the SF player (shouldn't they find a cool name for it?), with added arts, playable patches, and new art control features.




I hope its this as I am apparently entitled to a free upgrade, which is currently within budget.


edit: Talking of free upgrades, I have just been told that since I have the original Albion One, I'm getting a free upgrade to the new 'Cinematic Percussion' Library that is incoming. (which is nice). So Thank You to the SA chaps & chapesses.


----------



## Manaberry

SSO Pro. Finally!


----------



## korgscrew2000

Hi, I'm Paul Thompson from Spitfire Audio and I'm proud to announce John Cage Piano.

We have gone the extra mile and surpassed Albion Tundra which was recorded on the edge of silence.

John Cage Piano is 0gb with 1 empty patch. We have changed everything with this library and it really is a death bed project,

Introductory price is £299.


----------



## Technostica

That was clearly a fake PT as he wasn't very excited.


----------



## easyrider

korgscrew2000 said:


> Hi, I'm Paul Thompson from Spitfire Audio and *I'm incredibly excited today* to announce John Cage Piano.




Fixed


----------



## yiph2

That's fake for sure. There should be at least 20 mic positions


----------



## johe

Michael Antrum said:


> Talking of free upgrades, I have just been told that since I have the original Albion One, I'm getting a free upgrade to the new 'Cinematic Percussion' Library that is incoming. (which is nice). So Thank You to the SA chaps & chapesses.



Just got the same email, and while I was happy about it (it’s always nice to get free stuff) I was wondering if that had anything to do with this teaser. Now they basically have a „lite“ orchestra (with Strings, Winds, Brass and Percussion) they could sell as a bundle for beginning composers/producers. Which would „change everything“ because it would be their most affordable entry into orchestral music production (and which would amount to them reselling Albion legacy...?).

But what do I know? Even though they use hyperbole marketing tactics, I really like their products, so I’m looking forward to new announcements.


----------



## yiph2

Nope, its not, its part of the Originals Series, which is essentially Albion, but even lowered down than that


----------



## korgscrew2000

easyrider said:


> Fixed



Well, tell your face Paul. You don't look it!


----------



## thevisi0nary

For some reason this is what comes to mind reading the thread title


----------



## easyrider

johe said:


> Just got the same email, and while I was happy about it (it’s always nice to get free stuff) I was wondering if that had anything to do with this teaser. Now they basically have a „lite“ orchestra (with Strings, Winds, Brass and Percussion) they could sell as a bundle for beginning composers/producers. Which would „change everything“ because it would be their most affordable entry into orchestral music production (and which would amount to them reselling Albion legacy...?).
> 
> But what do I know? Even though they use hyperbole marketing tactics, I really like their products, so I’m looking forward to new announcements.



Albion One on their site now?


----------



## yiph2

easyrider said:


> Albion One on their site now?


The old one, called Albion 1


----------



## SupremeFist

Maybe they'll finally fix the glaring hole in their line-up and release some flautando flutes.


----------



## chrisr

SupremeFist said:


> Maybe they'll finally fix the glaring hole in their line-up and release some flautando flutes.



he he he...


----------



## ism

SupremeFist said:


> Maybe they'll finally fix the glaring hole in their line-up and release some flautando flutes.



Don't tease. I'm dying for more Spitfire flutes.

Something along the lines BWW exp B, but more ... well it's not just more lyrical than SSW but ... well it's precicely that Spitfire quality of 'flautando-esque' isn't it.

Not that BWW exp B doesn't sound great, and 8dio claire has another interesting take on hyper lyrical flues ... but a spitfire take on hyper lyrical flutes would be something else again.


----------



## Vik

Vik said:


> Port more of their stuff over to their own player – and update it, so it does more of what the German competition does.


...and that's not only based on the fact that May 7 2020 is the 75 anniversary of the German surrender in 1945, of course. AFAIK SF has some catchup to do in terms of functionality, unless I have missed something. I wrote something about it a long time ago on this forum (auto-gain, soft low layer, solo on mic positions, properly working control over legato/portamento volume, "morphing" between up to four articulations and more), so please let me know if some of that has become obsolete since 2016.


----------



## Fleer

Spitfire and German surrender?


----------



## Christopher Rocky

Its an update to bbcso that adds mic merging...

...one can dream


----------



## jamwerks

ChristopherRock said:


> Its an update to bbcso that adds mic merging...
> 
> ...one can dream


Yeah I bet mic-merging is on their list for the player. SINE really beats them in that !


----------



## yiph2

What is mic merging?


----------



## Michayl Asaph

Being able to buy individual sections, or instruments from all the available libraries that Spitfire has, like Orchestral Tools is doing with the Sine Player... that would be very cool.


----------



## FinGael

korgscrew2000 said:


> Hi, I'm Paul Thompson from Spitfire Audio and I'm proud to announce John Cage Piano.
> 
> We have gone the extra mile and surpassed Albion Tundra which was recorded on the edge of silence.
> 
> John Cage Piano is 0gb with 1 empty patch. We have changed everything with this library and it really is a death bed project,
> 
> Introductory price is £299.



"Perfectly suited for scoring your next silent film!"


----------



## dogdad

While I’m always excited for a Spitfire announcement (I guess I’m in the minority as I like their marketing) I believe this will be less about a new product and more about a new, lower pricing structure on the SSO line. This would make sense given the age of the libraries and the current economic situation.

Possibly ported to their player? Maybe.

Could be wrong but lower pricing would definitely change things and allow more people to afford these wonderful libraries.


----------



## yiph2

dogdad said:


> While I’m always excited for a Spitfire announcement (I guess I’m in the minority as I like their marketing) I believe this will be less about a new product and more about a new, lower pricing structure on the SSO line. This would make sense given the age of the libraries and the current economic situation.
> 
> Possibly ported to their player? Maybe.
> 
> Could be wrong but lower pricing would definitely change things and allow more people to afford these wonderful libraries.


I really hope is SSO lite, so it's possible to upgrade to the normal one or the pro one.
Probably with new player so they can test it before they port it to the normal version


----------



## yiph2

johe said:


> Just got the same email, and while I was happy about it (it’s always nice to get free stuff) I was wondering if that had anything to do with this teaser. Now they basically have a „lite“ orchestra (with Strings, Winds, Brass and Percussion) they could sell as a bundle for beginning composers/producers. Which would „change everything“ because it would be their most affordable entry into orchestral music production (and which would amount to them reselling Albion legacy...?).
> 
> But what do I know? Even though they use hyperbole marketing tactics, I really like their products, so I’m looking forward to new announcements.


Spitfire just released Cinematic Percussion


----------



## thereus

Possibly a sample library...


----------



## dogdad

yiph2 said:


> I really hope is SSO lite, so it's possible to upgrade to the normal one or the pro one.
> Probably with new player so they can test it before they port it to the normal version



That would also be nice. Any way to allow more people to have access to these Libraries.

I got a thought after a published my last post - Maybe they did port the SSO to the new player. This would allow them to offer demos - You could download and use the SSO for the next 30-90 days for free. Like an extended demo to allow people to use them while stuck at home. This could also come with a new lower pricing structure (or sale) if you like what you hear.

I know, long shot but would be cool.


----------



## yiph2

I strongly doubt it! One person on discord noted the picture on twitter looked like the air studio orchestra setup, so might be possible


----------



## jonathanwright

'We're proud to announce our new library for modern times - _The Socially Distanced Orchestra_.

The finest players in London were captured playing their instruments while out on their one allowed exercise session a day, all standing two metres apart.

This gives a super-wide stereo image and captures the wonderful sound of the _Air Outside_ studio.

For added realism, an upcoming pro update will include each instrument played in a Zoom meeting with a ropey internet connection."


----------



## easyrider




----------



## thereus

I think they need some new engineering ideas instead of using their current ideas about sampling with yet another band. The latest piano thing could have been wonderful, but instead of making the marvellous randomness of the instrument available in midi, they sampled some examples, thus removing the whole point of the instrument. Even the BBC which is wonderful, is restricted by the number of notes they actually recorded, even if with lots of mics. I think they need a rethink about making instruments more truly playable. A musician plays a phrase, not a note. He controls the timbre, pitch and volume at every moment during that phrase. We still just hit keys and expect orchestral instruments to behave like a piano. We miss every subtlety. If Spitfire want my admiration on their detahbeds, they would do make this better - the tech is there, nobody has exploited it yet in this context. They have the cash to do so.


----------



## Robert_G

Im actually hoping theyre going to announce subscription. It doesnt suit all developers, but of all the developers who should let us 'try before we buy' ,Spitfire is a prime candidate. Their libs are expensive and they are very hit or miss. I for one will never buy another Spitfire lib without somehow testdriving it. A EW style subscription service would allow me to figure out which libs are worth the money without risk.

Here's to hoping....


----------



## yiph2

No chance


----------



## Sears Poncho

easyrider said:


>



Purchasing...


----------



## Alex Fraser

I know a lot of folks are joking, but the subscription thing has been buried repeatedly by Spitfire.
Generally, subscriptions only happen when the product portfolio has aged. Seeing as SF release a new thing every 5 minutes.. it ain't going to happen anytime soon.


----------



## jbuhler

Eptesicus said:


> No, no, no, no you have it all wrong.
> 
> What we need is more static flautando sustains recorded in Air Lyndhurst.


TBH, I can never get enough flautando, sul tasto, etc sustains. I do wish that someone would start putting the same energy into providing more subtle varieties of shorts though.


----------



## dcoscina

May 7th cannot come soon enough!


----------



## jaketanner

BBC sectioned off...makes the most sense I think. Or possibly, they've beat out OT for the business model of buying "what you need". Would be cool though.


----------



## Scalms

jbuhler said:


> TBH, I can never get enough flautando, sul tasto, etc sustains. I do wish that someone would start putting the same energy into providing more subtle varieties of shorts though.


And some more dynamic layers, like 8 maybe. I know some may argue the extra layers but it’s the little differences and nuances which when added up just increase overall realism


----------



## Michael Antrum

easyrider said:


>




AKA the 'British Jumanji Composers Toolkit'



Alex Fraser said:


> I know a lot of folks are joking, but the subscription thing has been buried repeatedly by Spitfire.
> Generally, subscriptions only happen when the product portfolio has aged. Seeing as SF release a new thing every 5 minutes.. it ain't going to happen anytime soon.



I know its not on the cards, but every time you mention 'Spitfire' and 'Subscription' in the same sentence, that dull thud you hear in the background is Christian Henson banging his head against the wall - so it's a bit fun at least......


----------



## peladio

Thank God for the Ignore thread button..


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I feel the next generation of orchestral instrument emulations will be the synergy between Physical Modeling, and Sampling technologies, this is what Sample Modeling is doing. Their latest release Solo & Ensemble Strings is very interesting, and imho. will most likely evolve into something even better, and more sophisticated in the future, Audio Modeling is another developer with their SWAM engine, which imho also has a lot of potential as this technology evolves, and gets more refined, and sophisticated.

Developers like Spitfire Audio, would be smart to at least look into the possibilities of using PM and AI technologies into their products, even if it is just some experimental R&D stuff, today, it might lead them to something that has amazing results in the future.

I don't think offering lots of Mic options, and much larger Libraries is the future.


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I feel the next generation of orchestral instrument emulations will be the synergy between Physical Modeling, and Sampling technologies, this is what Sample Modeling is doing. Their latest release Solo & Ensemble Strings is very interesting, and imho. will most likely evolve into something even better, and more sophisticated in the future, Audio Modeling is another developer with their SWAM engine, which imho also has a lot of potential as this technology evolves, and get more refined, and sophisticated.
> 
> Developers like Spitfire Audio, would be smart to at least look into the possibilities of using PM and AI technologies into their products, even if it is just some experimental R&D stuff, today, it might lead them to something that has amazing results in the future.
> 
> I don't think offering lots of Mic options, and much larger Libraries is the future.


But the room! I NEED THE AIR LYNDHURST ROOM SOUND!!!!!


----------



## Dr.Quest

Judging by the different colors in the teaser card I would say modular section buying. It makes the most sense.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> But the room! I NEED THE AIR LYNDHURST ROOM SOUND!!!!!



I think the room/space and placement can also be emulated to a high-degree of accuracy in the future via spatial modeling and placement technologies. You won't be restricted to one venue's sound. Air, Teledex, Sydney Opera, ...etc. VSL's MIR-Pro already does this, but how good it does it is another matter. I think more, and even better options will be popping up as we move forward in time.


----------



## dcoscina

This thread is honestly fun. Keep 'em coming guys.


----------



## Jon W

I imagine Paul and Christian sitting back watching this thread "The most guesses seem to be subscription. Let's go with that one."


----------



## Jazzaria

I think I cracked it. Deep sampled *change* (i.e. coins) -






Finally, the ultimate library to make real Money!


----------



## Gauss

The sounds of Czechoslovakia orchard...


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Maybe the long awaited name-giving Spitfire's FireSpitters - a choir of fire spitters singing at the edge of silence with all mics stuffed into water hoses.


----------



## dcoscina

It's the John Williams plug in. Write your melody and it will be arranged in the style of John Williams. Other composer plug ins will include Hans Zimmer, Jerry Goldsmith, Danny Elfman, James Horner and Alan Silvestri. LOL


----------



## ptram

korgscrew2000 said:


> John Cage Piano is 0gb with 1 empty patch. We have changed everything with this library and it really is a death bed project,


Since 4’33” is actually full of sound, I fear it will be very big. To have the same strong sense of presence as in a real performance, you would need a lot of microphones. I need a new SSD.

Paolo


----------



## puremusic

Whatever it is I'm looking forwards to it! Haha.


----------



## LittleCoral

Album : "It's all about to change" by Travis Tritt with one song released on may 7... a country music library?


----------



## Zero&One

dcoscina said:


> May 7th cannot come soon enough!



Totally! My Boba Fett Black series helmet gets delivered! Woot

Can't believe i admitted that publicly


----------



## StillLife

LABS: SSO, maybe?


----------



## Trombking




----------



## barteredbride

Spitfire have bought Air Lyndhurst but have secretly built an extension, so it is now 4 times the size for EVEN MORE REVERB.

The outrigger mics are now 1km apart.

They've sampled 350 cello players together playing pizzicato with their teeth.


----------



## Soundhound

I read a post or maybe it was in an article somewhere, by somebody, saying they were thinking of buying bbcso but we’re concerned about some of the reported issues people are having with it. This person says that someone with inside knowledge said don’t buy bbcso, spitfire is coming out with something soon (that will addres all those issues). I can’t remember if what’s in the parentheses is wishful thinking on my part, or my spectacular, photographic memory. And have no idea if it meant a fix to bbcso or something thst would make bbcso unnecessary.

So there you have it. Straight from the horse’s mouth. Don’t quote me.


----------



## El Buhdai

It's all about to change again? I thought it all changed in November with BBCSO, and then again with Albion Neo...

I don't have nearly enough "change" in my pockets to keep up with all the times in the past few months that your marketing team has decided your newest library will "change everything" again. 

I'll stick with what I got.


----------



## Technostica

The times they are a changin'.
Sounds like a hybrid Bob Dylan and Dave Brubeck library to me. Or maybe that would be released on 05/04?


----------



## drymcore_music

So: Spitfire still owes us a solo Tenor and Bass Trombone legato patch in Symphonic Brass.
That was released in 2016 (?) and the product page said "soon".

In February 2019 i asked the support if "soon" means something different in the UK than in germany (looking at how long Brexit took that is at least a possibility), since i was already waiting for my solo bone legati for three years...the Support answered:

"Thanks for your message.

Don't worry - these aren't forgotten! There are some very exciting updates coming to the whole of the SSO in the future, however there isn't a time frame on this currently. We apologise for the delay in these patches!"

I am glad i made a screenshot of the Symphonic Brass product page, somehow expeting them to break their promise on releasing the free update ("soon"!). They have removed any mention of those patches in the meantime...so my first thought when seeing the new hype-promotion was: SSO in their new sampler, maybe with or without the promised articulations ("soon")...


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

I'm thinking about it not being a new virtual instrument but a new concept:

an app where you input parts/MIDI and it links to a database of remote recording musicians, i.e. a remote orchestra + choir
a collaboration orchestra where users contribute sounds/performances via a free app as an extension of the Labs idea (but 8dio do this, I think).


----------



## dzilizzi

Soundhound said:


> I read a post or maybe it was in an article somewhere, by somebody, saying they were thinking of buying bbcso but we’re concerned about some of the reported issues people are having with it. This person says that someone with inside knowledge said don’t buy bbcso, spitfire is coming out with something soon (that will addres all those issues). I can’t remember if what’s in the parentheses is wishful thinking on my part, or my spectacular, photographic memory. And have no idea if it meant a fix to bbcso or something thst would make bbcso unnecessary.
> 
> So there you have it. Straight from the horse’s mouth. Don’t quote me.


I believe the person was concerned about it working on his machine and they told him to wait because something better for him was coming out. It is consistent with the Luna SCO version.


----------



## Fleer

Jon W said:


> I imagine Paul and Christian sitting back watching this thread "The most guesses seem to be subscription. Let's go with that one."


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## yiph2

dzilizzi said:


> I believe the person was concerned about it working on his machine and they told him to wait because something better for him was coming out. It is consistent with the Luna SCO version.


That's me  I'm pretty sure it wasn't insider edition though...
Pretty sure its whatever is coming on the 7th


----------



## Soundhound

Aha! Mystery solved. What's the deal with the Luna SCO version, how it is different etc. anybody know? 

I have Luna but am just going to experiment with the neve bussing for mixing stems etc. haven''t looked at any of the instruments...





yiph2 said:


> That's me  I'm pretty sure it wasn't insider edition though...
> Pretty sure its whatever is coming on the 7th


----------



## yiph2

Soundhound said:


> Aha! Mystery solved. What's the deal with the Luna SCO version, how it is different etc. anybody know?
> 
> I have Luna but am just going to experiment with the neve bussing for mixing stems etc. haven''t looked at any of the instruments...


Luna one takes much less space (and also much less content), you can look at specs on their website. But apparently Luna is bad for MIDI editing...


----------



## Soundhound

Yes I was just wondering if the reference meant that this new world changing Spitfire moment will be something like the Luna version of SCO. (Luna midi editing definitely rev. 1, very bare bones.
For now anyway!)


----------



## yiph2

But I asked them about SSO update, not the LUNA edition
I asked that separately, so doubt that is related


----------



## Mornats

rhizomusicosmos said:


> I'm thinking about it not being a new virtual instrument but a new concept:
> 
> an app where you input parts/MIDI and it links to a database of remote recording musicians, i.e. a remote orchestra + choir
> a collaboration orchestra where users contribute sounds/performances via a free app as an extension of the Labs idea (but 8dio do this, I think).



No, no, no. Close but no cigar. I'm sure they're working on a way to directly control live musicians via midi cc. No more need for samples.


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Presenting the Spitfire DAW:

A V A L O N

"More than this (you know there's nothing)"​


----------



## yiph2

What kind of name is that


----------



## easyrider

Will be

BBCSO and SSO versions of these exclusive to Spitfire for people wanting lite versions for sketching etc....









LUNA Spitfire Bundle | UAD Audio Plugins | Universal Audio


The LUNA Spitfire Bundle lets you create with world-class, expertly sampled String, Brass, and Woodwind Collections.




www.uaudio.com





The code as already been done for LUNA versions of Symphonic Brass and woodwinds..They will be keeping Symphonic strings Lite for themselves....


----------



## yiph2

In Luna they used SCS instead of SSS


----------



## ism

Can anyone explain what the point of Luna is?


----------



## KallumS

ism said:


> Can anyone explain what the point of Luna is?



To sell Thunderbolt, Apollo & Arrow interfaces.


----------



## SupremeFist

ism said:


> Can anyone explain what the point of Luna is?


Probably attractive to non-techy bands looking to record, etc, rather than to midi orchestrators.


----------



## ism

KallumS said:


> To sell Thunderbolt, Apollo & Arrow interfaces.



But how does SCS add value to any of that?


----------



## Technostica

This is lunacy!


----------



## KallumS

ism said:


> But how does SCS add value to any of that?



I'm not sure why they chose to include SCS strings instead of SSS strings, really bizarre decision. But having the Spitfire bundle on there will be a money maker for Spitfire and UA. If you own a UA interface, you then own Luna, which then gives you the ability to purchase an "exclusive" custom bundle. The fact that it's £449 shouldn't be a barrier, UA interfaces cost more than that. $$$


----------



## Zedcars

Technostica said:


> This is lunacy!


I see what you did there...


----------



## easyrider

ism said:


> Can anyone explain what the point of Luna is?




There is no point...Does the world really need another DAW with CUBASE and STUDIO ONE and REAPER around 

There is a certain snobbery attached with UAD and its not even justified...Just Like INTEL....


----------



## Technostica

easyrider said:


> There is a certain snobbery attached with UAD and its not even justified...Just Like INTEL....


Hardly comparable. Intel clearly led the market for much of the last 15 years so they were clearly the best and often only option until recently. When you've dominated for so long with no real competition it takes a while for Joe Public to catch up with the new situation.
Also, most people don't even require more than 6 or 8 cores so the whole core race is irrelevant to them.
UAD should be so lucky to be classed in the same way as Intel who until recently had about 99% of server sales, the vast majority of laptop sales and the majority of desktop sales. UAD aren't even as big as AMD in terms of market-share for software compared with when AMD were in their slump. 
CPUs are too boring for snobbery. People buy brands that are familiar and safe I imagine.
Good to see AMD are out of their coma with a vengeance. Miraculous. Maybe they were drinking bleach!


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

yiph2 said:


> What kind of name is that


Could have been:

A V O N

"Ding Dong! It's Spitfire calling!"


----------



## dcoscina

easyrider said:


> There is no point...Does the world really need another DAW with CUBASE and STUDIO ONE and REAPER around
> 
> There is a certain snobbery attached with UAD and its not even justified...Just Like INTEL....


I think they are going after the pro tools market. I use Luna after I bounce stems from Cubase and having access to all my UAD plugs (I have them all) in their own DAW is pretty nice. Plus I’ve noticed CPU usage is rather low. And Ravel is a gorgeous piano! The zero latency is fantastic as well.


----------



## easyrider

Technostica said:


> Hardly comparable. Intel clearly led the market for much of the last 15 years so they were clearly the best and often only option until recently. When you've dominated for so long with no real competition it takes a while for Joe Public to catch up with the new situation.
> Also, most people don't even require more than 6 or 8 cores so the whole core race is irrelevant to them.
> UAD should be so lucky to be classed in the same way as Intel who until recently had about 99% of server sales, the vast majority of laptop sales and the majority of desktop sales. UAD aren't even as big as AMD in terms of market-share for software compared with when AMD were in their slump.
> CPUs are too boring for snobbery. People buy brands that are familiar and safe I imagine.
> Good to see AMD are out of their coma with a vengeance. Miraculous. Maybe they were drinking bleach!



I meant in terms of perceived brand quality...


----------



## easyrider

dcoscina said:


> I think they are going after the pro tools market. I use Luna after I bounce stems from Cubase and having access to all my UAD plugs (I have them all) in their own DAW is pretty nice. Plus I’ve noticed CPU usage is rather low. And Ravel is a gorgeous piano! The zero latency is fantastic as well.



They are missing out on a huge Market for Windows users....


----------



## Technostica

easyrider said:


> I meant in terms of perceived brand quality...


Hard to compare on that level and not sure what the point would be!


----------



## Alex Fraser

easyrider said:


> Will be
> 
> BBCSO and SSO versions of these exclusive to Spitfire for people wanting lite versions for sketching etc....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LUNA Spitfire Bundle | UAD Audio Plugins | Universal Audio
> 
> 
> The LUNA Spitfire Bundle lets you create with world-class, expertly sampled String, Brass, and Woodwind Collections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.uaudio.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The code as already been done for LUNA versions of Symphonic Brass and woodwinds..They will be keeping Symphonic strings Lite for themselves....


Those Luna versions look like a lot of fun - but what worries me is there's no mention of "legato" either in the prose or the screenshots. Early days of course.

Also, if we're warming to the theme of "lite" versions - StaffPad also has a "Spitfire Percussion" IAP available, suggesting that the JB percussion may also have received a reboot. It would certainly marry up with the teaser graphic.


----------



## yiph2

I'm pretty sure Spitfire is not going to release the same product in LUNA and other DAWs, there is no point, no one would buy the LUNA version.


----------



## Mornats

Avalon is the name of the legendary isle where King Arthur is meant to have lived. It's a very spiritually British name so would be quite appropriate for Spitfire (especially when you consider they Albion is an old, romantic name for the island of Great Britain) and Spitfire is the name of a British WWII war plane.


----------



## doctoremmet

Technostica said:


> Or maybe that would be released on 05/04?


Cleverrrrr!


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> I'm pretty sure Spitfire is not going to release the same product in LUNA and other DAWs, there is no point, no one would buy the LUNA version.


Good point.

Whatever happens - and assuming this is all about the SSO - I'm 99% certain it won't just be a simple reworking into the new player. If I was the SF top brass* I'd be looking to:

Provide an upgrade path for existing SSO users to a new "Pro" version.
Open up the "normal" version(s) to a new market.
Else why spend all that time and money converting the library to run in the new plugin?

All fun and games I guess. I'm likely completely off base. I did predict the BBCSO correctly, but was waaaay off on HZ Strings. 😂

*Thankfully, for everyone's sake, I'm not.


----------



## yiph2

I don't think it's SSO Pro (i think)
I asked support before, and they said updates were planned...
But it could be, we'll have to wait


----------



## thereus

barteredbride said:


> Spitfire have bought Air Lyndhurst but have secretly built an extension, so it is now 4 times the size for EVEN MORE REVERB.
> 
> The outrigger mics are now 1km apart.
> 
> They've sampled 350 cello players together playing pizzicato with their teeth.



You clearly haven't seen the price of property in Hampstead...


----------



## thereus

You have to hand to it them. They've posted one abstract photo and the whole industry is scouting the internet for clues and has already publicised a completely different project for them. They are very good at this. You lot are their bitches.


----------



## yiph2

The "abstract photo" is a orchestral setup...
And I'm pretty sure most of these guesses are a joke


----------



## cmillar

Have they sampled the sound of brass players emptying their spit?


----------



## Symfoniq

Alex Fraser said:


> If I was the SF top brass



If I was the top brass, I'd be a horn, because all other brass is lesser.

Fight started?


----------



## wolb1

My guess, something similar to Vienna MIR


----------



## porrasm

It better be SSO or BBC update. I don't need a new game changer before they've improved the previous game changers.


----------



## dzilizzi

yiph2 said:


> I'm pretty sure Spitfire is not going to release the same product in LUNA and other DAWs, there is no point, no one would buy the LUNA version.


You can only get Luna if you have a UAD interface. So that probably leaves out more than 2/3 their normal customers. It will be renamed to the Spitfire player version, of course. But likely the same thing.


----------



## yiph2

dzilizzi said:


> You can only get Luna if you have a UAD interface. So that probably leaves out more than 2/3 their normal customers. It will be renamed to the Spitfire player version, of course. But likely the same thing.


I don't think the same...
16GB for Chamber Strings, that is so little...
And no legato...


----------



## dzilizzi

yiph2 said:


> I don't think the same...
> 16GB for Chamber Strings, that is so little...
> And no legato...


But if it is a lite version of the SSO/SCO it might not have legato to keep the resource usage down. You do have to give things up for a lite version.


----------



## ptram

If it has to be a cheap edition of a previously released library, maybe it's the full Lyndhurst orchestra - minus the reverb!

Paolo


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> I don't think the same...
> 16GB for Chamber Strings, that is so little...
> And no legato...


There was that new compression algorithm Spitfire introduced with BBCSO.. 🤔


dzilizzi said:


> But if it is a lite version of the SSO/SCO it might not have legato to keep the resource usage down. You do have to give things up for a lite version.


We're squarely in the realm of supposition here, but can you imagine the forum rage if it shipped without legato? 😂


----------



## yiph2

Alex Fraser said:


> We're squarely in the realm of supposition here, but can you imagine the forum rage if it shipped without legato? 😂


I'm going to be really disappointed...


----------



## Ben H

"It's all about to change - May 7"

Prices are gonna double? Or triple?


----------



## dzilizzi

Alex Fraser said:


> We're squarely in the realm of supposition here, but can you imagine the forum rage if it shipped without legato? 😂


But maybe it has POWER SUSTAIN!!? Isn't that almost as good?


----------



## Denkii

What about a bigger brother library for aperture?
Or...you know... subscription.


----------



## yiph2

dzilizzi said:


> But maybe it has POWER SUSTAIN!!? Isn't that almost as good?


Maybe Strings percussion 
"We recorded over 60 GB of sounds, in the edge of silence, to capture the sounds of the wood of the violin"


----------



## Soundhound

A friend who writes/produces pop/rock, top forty/whatever the hell it's called nowadays, agrees with that. They are liking Luna as a potential alternative to ProTools and the aggravation that has created for people over the years. Apparently just bouncing stems out and playing them back in Luna using the Neve summing plugin and Studer plugin is a religious experience.





dcoscina said:


> I think they are going after the pro tools market. I use Luna after I bounce stems from Cubase and having access to all my UAD plugs (I have them all) in their own DAW is pretty nice. Plus I’ve noticed CPU usage is rather low. And Ravel is a gorgeous piano! The zero latency is fantastic as well.


----------



## Zero&One

I might start the thread hating on them for _not_ releasing 99% of the things mentioned here.
We all know there's one coming


----------



## FinGael

A rumor:

Paul and Christian changing gender and their names to Paulina Thomdaughter and Christina Hendaughter. (Don't worry - Paulina will still be very, very excited)

Spitfire will also change to Spitwater - because water is often associated with emotions and feelings and the feminine aspect.

Sources: trust me, bro and Uncle Intel (TM)


----------



## Michael Antrum

​


----------



## yiph2

Let's bet on how many pages before May 7th
I will guess 45 pages


----------



## Michel Simons

Mornats said:


> Avalon is the name of the legendary isle where King Arthur is meant to have lived. It's a very spiritually British name so would be quite appropriate for Spitfire (especially when you consider they Albion is an old, romantic name for the island of Great Britain) and Spitfire is the name of a British WWII war plane.



You might as well call it Marmite then.



cmillar said:


> Have they sampled the sound of brass players emptying their spit?



It's not spit...sigh.....



Symfoniq said:


> If I was the top brass, I'd be a horn, because all other brass is lesser.
> 
> Fight started?



You and me. After school.


----------



## kelexys

A monthly cloud subscription for their products  ? I'll keep on dreaming :D


----------



## Peter Satera

Finally! I've been waiting since the teaser! Can't wait for part 1 next week!



Spoiler: Spitfire 7th May Announcement


----------



## Zedcars

Found a clue...could be called 'BBCSO Discovery'.


----------



## Zedcars

Record label? LSO has one called LSO Discovery.






London Symphony Orchestra - About LSO Discovery


The London Symphony Orchestra performs over 120 concerts a year at the Barbican Centre in London and on tour around the world.




lso.co.uk





EDIT: Not sure that's a label as such. It says it is a "music education and community programme".

EDIT 2: Yeah, not a record label (that's LSO Live). But they do have a lot of stuff going on with community projects. Just wondering if this is the BBCSO's take on that in collaboration with Spitfire?


----------



## easyrider

yiph2 said:


> I'm pretty sure Spitfire is not going to release the same product in LUNA and other DAWs, there is no point, no one would buy the LUNA version.



Spitfire don’t have a Luna Symphonic strings....they are keeping that for themselves.....for their own website....


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

I think ya”ll should go for the guiness book of records : “ how many speculations and posts can a spitfire audio teaser cause”....

And set the record!

1000 pages should do it before 7 may


----------



## Zedcars

Silence-is-Golden said:


> I think ya”ll should go for the guiness book of records : “ how many speculations and posts can a spitfire audio teaser cause”....
> 
> And set the record!
> 
> 1000 pages should do it before 7 may


Speculation was just as rampant on the BBCSO London's Calling thread, but the answer was guessed on the 10th page (3 days after the first teaser) . Page 15 now so we're slacking (or we don't care as much?). Although, I suppose it's only been 2 days...just seems longer somehow.)


----------



## Abdulrahman

I would say a reverb plugin of their own same as MIR Pro for instrument positions. Definitely a plugin!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Found a clue...could be called 'BBCSO Discovery'.


Have you been sniffing code again? 😅


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Have you been sniffing code again? 😅


Just using my highly trained espionage skills to pause, zoom and enhance something...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Just using my highly trained espionage skills to pause, zoom and enhance something...


Then I’d say you’re using your lockdown time in the most constructive way! 😅


----------



## Jon W

Silence-is-Golden said:


> 1000 pages should do it before 7 may


1000 pages? We will all be quoting Ringo: "I have blisters on my fingers!"


----------



## nolotrippen

cmillar said:


> Have they sampled the sound of brass players emptying their spit?


coffee spit!


----------



## RogiervG

Introducing BBCSO 2, the intended edition.

A Full orchestra, with proper brass, a choir, piano and more microphones!

Spitfire: "Adding Piano and choir was our first thing to add. But we realised the brass sucked in BBCSO and fixed it in BBCSO2. This time the brass sounds amazingly realistic with proper dynamics. As a bonus: We listened to our users and ported everything over to kontakt."


Disclaimer:
just a personal rant and wish.. because let's be honest the horns and trombones are a very bad sounding part of BBCSO... also the promised piano is not yet delivered.. and the choir is missing.. why isn't it included? i mean the BBSCO has a choir afterall... And why your own sample player? it not even production ready... make it production ready before making it a standard for the libraries.
I do like the overall sound of BBCSO though...


----------



## Pando

yiph2 said:


> The "abstract photo" is a orchestral setup...



Really? I thought it was the Millenium Falcon cockpit.


----------



## richhickey

The one thing that's true of a game that's always changing: it's impossible to win. Oh, and it will have more mic positions.


----------



## muziksculp

Yes, more mic positions, there will be at least 5 additional mic selection pages to scroll through, each page is full of all sorts of mic positions/options, so you can spend most of your time deciding which mic combinations to use, rather than making tracks. Hehe...That's the whole idea, isn't it ? Finding the right mic combination.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Only two microphones. Is that enough?


----------



## Technostica

Introducing The *ITV* Symphonic Orchestra (Thames Barrier Edition for Lunar).
Here's a foreword by Lord Melvyn Bragg and imagine a nasal voice:

There's a full moon and the Thames barrier is in lock-down mode and all the bridges across the Thames are closed.
The streets are full of rioters in post Brexit London.
You have to hand deliver a drive to a client across town and you only have 5 hours before your MI5 contact sends his driver/assassin to pick you up.
You’re still struggling to finish the score and then as the light of the full moon shines across your keyboard you are struck by an off-key thought; check the Spitfire Audio site!
Normally you'd put that down to your SA obsession but this time you knew differently, this was a deeper voice calling to you.
You logged in and there it was, a new bloody release.
Christ on a Space Hopper, this is bad timing.
But you push ahead, locate your Spitfire Audio sponsored credit card and once more jump into the void.
No time to get very excited by the walk-throughs or be distracted by doubt or Homay’s sultry tones, this is your own personal Battle of Britain.
As the last few terabytes of the library rattle down the fibre the router starts to vibrate and hum with the strain.
For a moment it appears that the router is humming The Colonel Bogey March.
Slightly off key, but it is a BT router so what do you expect!
Fleetingly you imagine a padded cell but you quickly shake of that image and instead take it as a sign that you are on the right track.
Whilst the installation is proceeding you pour yourself a large single malt and imagine it to be a brandy.
You also imagine that your pen with its tiny built in light is a cigar.
Then you finally have a name for this last piece, Bulldog.
From here on everything flows beautifully.
Even the box of Thunderbolt cables and adapters appears to be on your side for once.
At precisely twenty-one hundred hours, an hour after curfew, a small stone hits the window of your study.
You put on your black gloves after double checking that your USB drive is ensconced within your chest level gun holster.
You open the window and prepare to jump to the street level.
But who is the client?







And all because the lady loves Churchill Insurance.

(If you aren’t British and of a certain age some of these references will have no meaning for you).


----------



## jimjazzuk

Like most Spitfire products I will will follow the hype and then when it's released I'll listen to the demos.

Then I'll go back to my finely honed CSS and CSB that appeared without any fanfare and wonder what all the fuss was about.


----------



## José Herring

Maybe on May 7th they'll decide to stop doing cryptic marketing campaigns. THAT WOULD BE A CHANGE!!!!


----------



## merty

My guess, they're completely abandoning Kontakt.


----------



## CT

josejherring said:


> Maybe on March 7th they'll decide to stop doing cryptic marketing campaigns. THAT WOULD BE A CHANGE!!!!



They'd be crazy to ditch that approach. Look at how much attention this forum gives them for one post, whether in the form of jokes or dismissals/criticisms/declarations of disinterest.

The declarations of disinterest are my favorite. I'm sure that the good folks at Spitfire are torn up every time someone bumps this thread and keeps it in view in order to tell everyone that they're too cool for any of this.


----------



## José Herring

miket said:


> They'd be crazy to ditch that approach. Look at how much attention this forum gives them for one post, whether in the form of jokes or dismissals/criticisms/declarations of disinterest.


True. BTW I mean, "May 7th".


----------



## Fleer

May 7 be our lucky number.


----------



## dogdad

Pando said:


> Really? I thought it was the Millenium Falcon cockpit.



Maybe it is a John Williams library and the the orchestral seating chart is _supposed_ to look like the Millennium Falcon’s cockpit.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Just got an email about this with the subject “This is London Calling”

Getting flashbacks here. All of a sudden I want chocolate.
Also implies BBCSO.


----------



## yiph2

What did it say?


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> The declarations of disinterest are my favorite. I'm sure that the good folks at Spitfire are torn up every time someone bumps this thread and keeps it in view in order to tell everyone that they're too cool for any of this.


Ah, you mean the ones who claim to have put the thread on “ignore” yet haven’t really as they want to see who else agrees with them?


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> What did it say?


Just the same graphic at the top of this thread.

I tried to pry from support if the date was a release or pre order/reveal. The gentlemen wasn’t saying, but did express excitement and suggested it was “going to be a good one” or something to that effect.


----------



## yiph2

Just a picture about BBCSO? Strange...


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> Just a picture about BBCSO? Strange...


Sorry, I should have been clearer. The graphic at the top of this thread.


----------



## Wally Garten

Alex Fraser said:


> Just the same graphic at the top of this thread.
> 
> I tried to pry from support if the date was a release or pre order/reveal. The gentlemen wasn’t saying, but did express excitement and suggested it was “going to be a good one” or something to that effect.



"Hello, this is Paul Thomson, and I'm VERY excited to be taking your support call today...."


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Just got an email about this with the subject “This is London Calling”
> 
> Getting flashbacks here. All of a sudden I want chocolate.
> Also implies BBCSO.


I didn’t get one. I guess you’re on their ‘special’ list...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> I didn’t get one. I guess you’re on their ‘special’ list...


So “BBCSO lite” then? Plus a free download for existing BBCSO users for mobile rigs etc? Same instruments for compatibility but just the one mic? 🤔😳🤯

(As if on cue, my wonderful wife just ordered a 2500g box of “Celebrations” on Amazon..)


----------



## CT

I've got it. British brass band as used during the "changing" of the guard, done at Maida Vale. You heard it here first.


----------



## Zhao Shen

Nothing changed the last 5 times they said it was all about to change - I highly doubt that it will this time.


----------



## Jaap

Easy call, deep sampled german whistle library with flautando's of course


----------



## RogiervG

Zhao Shen said:


> Nothing changed the last 5 times they said it was all about to change - I highly doubt that it will this time.


sneaking in with a little topic hijack: when are you going to update the guide? last update is from 2018. many things have changed since then..


----------



## Dollismine

Abdulrahman said:


> I would say a reverb plugin of their own same as MIR Pro for instrument positions. Definitely a plugin!


+1


----------



## Rex282

Jaap said:


> Easy call, deep sampled german whistle library with flautando's of course



Klaus won a Tari library in the Best Service contest...congradts Klaus!!


----------



## ridgero

I wonder if "This is London Calling" can indicate something else, like a Convolution Reverb from the Maida Vale or maybe a feature like Mic Merging. This would be absolutely amazing

"It's ALL about to change"



christianhenson said:


> Page 2!
> 
> I pitched this idea to the team with a "this is a death-bed opportunity"
> 
> they looked on blankly..
> 
> "...where we think to ourselves, we did THAT".
> 
> Cannot emote, emoji or indeed be histrionic enough about how mahooooosive this is.



That doesn't sound like a simple Bass Flute + Piano upgrade


----------



## Alex Fraser

I did a quick spot of sleuthing. It's 100% BBCSO. Though what exactly, I've no idea.


----------



## yiph2

Interesting
But why is it white, when everything about BBCSO is black?


----------



## Zedcars

yiph2 said:


> Interesting
> But why is it white, when everything about BBCSO is black?


Because they are about to embark on their most ambitious project to date - converting all of their plugins from a black GUI to white. _Everything_ is about to change...


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> Interesting
> But why is it white, when everything about BBCSO is black?


My guess? It's not necessarily about the existing BBCSO product. An alternative "core" version could be coloured white to differentiate?


----------



## Zedcars

“Death-bed opportunity” sounds like Christian theology talk to describe repentance for sins in one’s dying moments in order to be forgiven and worthy of acceptance into heaven. But how would that relate to the BBCSO? 🤔


----------



## KEM

Honestly, I stopped caring about new Spitfire libraries a long time ago. Everything “new” and “game changing” is just the same stuff it seems like, nothing actually worth getting excited about.


----------



## yiph2

I'm guessing that means like one in a lifetime opportunity or something?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> “Death-bed opportunity” sounds like Christian theology talk to describe repentance for sins in one’s dying moments in order to be forgiven and worthy of acceptance into heaven. But how would that relate to the BBCSO? 🤔


Haha, no idea. But the evidence for BBCSO is “caught with your pants down” level. I’ll dm you later.


----------



## KallumS

Using the clues from this thread, this could be BBCSO Discovery - a lite version of BBCSO. Including mostly ensembles in a similar vein to Orchestral Tools Inspire. Full price might be £449 with an intro price of £300 or so. The interface could be white and might have one mic position.


----------



## ism

Perhaps it's BBCSO for staffpad (or some such) combined with a Lite version such that there's a clean round trip workflow with Logic. That could be game changing.

More of a Paul thing that a Christian thing though.

(Regardless of what this release is - Spitfire, please do something like this! SSO Lite would be just as great with a staff pad version)


----------



## Bluemount Score

Alex Fraser said:


> Just got an email about this with the subject “This is London Calling”
> 
> Getting flashbacks here. All of a sudden I want chocolate.
> Also implies BBCSO.


Got it as well now... also guessing on something like BBCSO lite


----------



## Dollismine

...or maybe a 100% functionnal BBCSO on windows ?


----------



## ridgero

A lite version of BBCSO is the ultimate death bed opportunity?

Nah, I doubt it


----------



## redlester

I realise the concept of a bank holiday is pretty meaningless right now, but it's still a thing apparently. So is this the real reason the UK has moved the May Day bank holiday to Friday 8th? Nothing to do with VE Day, that's a cover story. It's to provide a day, following the announcement, for everyone to pile onto this thread and complain/maintain disinterest/express excitement (delete as appropriate).


----------



## Mrmonkey

I think it will be something like time macro + but with the BBC orchestra. Imagine lots of odd articulations and soundscapes But maybe taken a step further. Things you wouldn’t immediately expect from the BBC Symphony orchestra. It will be “imagine if you took the reliable, the knowable and turned it into something different and twisted.”


----------



## KallumS

ridgero said:


> A lite version of BBCSO is the ultimate death bed opportunity?
> 
> Nah, I doubt it



They could rationalize it as "this is the ultimate death bed opportunity to give new composers the sound of the BBC orchestra at an affordable cost". In marketing anything's possible.


----------



## Alex Fraser

KallumS said:


> They could rationalize it as "this is the ultimate death bed opportunity to give new composers the sound of the BBC orchestra at an affordable cost". In marketing anything's possible.


My thoughts too. Positioned as “we know everyone is in lockdown so we’ve done this” with some proceeds to health services etc.


----------



## John R Wilson

Maybe they've recorded the BBC Singers as well! so maybe this new update / release is going to also include a choir.


----------



## Pixelpoet1985

Some interesting thoughts here and I wish it has something to do with the BBCSO. At the moment I'm not a big fan of it, but I do like the overall sound. In my opinion, in order to release a light version the bigger version has to be overhauled immensely. Seems like a rushed release to me.


My 2 cents:

1) I don't think it's a reverb plugin, makes no sense, their libraries are already wet. Positioning maybe, not reverb. But maybe they bought Maida Vale studios.

2) I like the idea of selling individual sections. I discovered that they are working on a new website (have a look at their careers page!). Maybe it's a hint for something similar to the SINE player and it's integrated shop system.


----------



## Zero&One

KEM said:


> Honestly, I stopped caring about new Spitfire libraries a long time ago. Everything “new” and “game changing” is just the same stuff it seems like, nothing actually worth getting excited about.



But still... you venture into the thread young Padawan. Temption in you I feel.... Hmmm! ~Yoda 2020


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> My thoughts too. Positioned as “we know everyone is in lockdown so we’ve done this” with some proceeds to health services etc.



Yeah, I think it's something to do with lockdown and a collab for NHS. 

CH "Cannot emote, emoji or indeed be histrionic enough about how mahooooosive this is."
That doesn't scream a plugin, update, LITE version at all.


----------



## Technostica

A charity single would be good at this point to raise money for the NHS.
The BBC singers performing a Mega Skype Mix of two favourite BBC theme tunes from hospital related shows.
So the Holby City and Casualty tunes done in the style of *Stimmung* and then mangled by Christian's modular system.
All proceeds go to the virtual Holby City 12 steps program for Euro-rack addicts.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

miket said:


> They'd be crazy to ditch that approach. Look at how much attention this forum gives them for one post, whether in the form of jokes or dismissals/criticisms/declarations of disinterest.
> 
> The declarations of disinterest are my favorite. I'm sure that the good folks at Spitfire are torn up every time someone bumps this thread and keeps it in view in order to tell everyone that they're too cool for any of this.



I think that "attention" without translating to hard cash is generally vastly overrated by everyone everywhere. If I was to bet, intuitively I'd say that SF has actually managed to draw some ire and produce fatigue with their approach to marketing alone. As long as that's balanced out with more paying customers on the other side, that's tolerable, but that's the part of the equation we don't know. Judging from this place, I have a feeling that the last major releases (BBCSO and Albion NEO) had a lukewarm reception.


----------



## yiph2

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I think that "attention" without translating to hard cash is generally vastly overrated by everyone everywhere. If I was to bet, intuitively I'd say that SF has actually managed to draw some ire and produce fatigue with their approach to marketing alone. As long as that's balanced out with more paying customers on the other side, that's tolerable, but that's the part of the equation we don't know. Judging from this place, I have a feeling that the last major releases (BBCSO and Albion NEO) had a lukewarm reception.


Maybe that's their strategy 
Release some ok libraries, then release a really good one, use the same marketing, so people will buy it


----------



## Sears Poncho

Zedcars said:


> I didn’t get one. I guess you’re on their ‘special’ list...


I got one. There goes your "special" theory.


----------



## Zedcars

Sears Poncho said:


> I got one. There goes your "special" theory.


I thought you were _very_ special though?


----------



## Sears Poncho

Zedcars said:


> I thought you were _very_ special though?


Special needs perhaps. If my eyesight keeps getting worse, I'm gonna have to get the "Bigass print" edition for my symphony gigs. Wait a second..... all my gigs have been cancelled, I'll be fine. Great news!!


----------



## CT

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I think that "attention" without translating to hard cash is generally vastly overrated by everyone everywhere. If I was to bet, intuitively I'd say that SF has actually managed to draw some ire and produce fatigue with their approach to marketing alone. As long as that's balanced out with more paying customers on the other side, that's tolerable, but that's the part of the equation we don't know. Judging from this place, I have a feeling that the last major releases (BBCSO and Albion NEO) had a lukewarm reception.



The world-weary opinions of some on VI-Control are probably not a useful metric of how a company is doing.


----------



## Zedcars

Sears Poncho said:


> Special needs perhaps. If my eyesight keeps getting worse, I'm gonna have to get the "Bigass print" edition for my symphony gigs. Wait a second..... all my gigs have been cancelled, I'll be fine. Great news!!


Trying to think which composer it was, but there was a famous British 20th century composer who had poor eyesight in later years, and he used to write gigantic notes on a big whiteboard. I thought it was Sir John Tavener, but it must have been a different composer as there are photos of him in old age with normal manuscript paper. Anyone know who that was?


----------



## ism

Obviously, not every Spitfire offering is interesting to everyone. But you can't argue that they've stopped innovating or taking risks and generally doing fun stuff.

LCO textures, for instance, was a bit too ambient for me, lovely though it was.

Wheres Stratus, I am completely in awe of and feel it has real potential to be game changing, specifically in how it offers a new type of pointalistic colouring to augment various types of woodwind figures and, more generally that pointillism of Orchestral swarm, elements of Time Macro, and a certain sensibility of certain of the OACE evos.

Others complained that Stratus was too limiting, or conversely, no different from a garden variety granular filter. Which is totally fine. I don't get how JXL brass is different from the 17 other type of brass libraries the go "BRAAAA" that Daniel James reviews with loving precision on how each has its own singular nuance of bombastic that take him to ecstasies of aesthetic colouration. Which is fabulous. Totally not my thing (I have a $2 french horn patch from wave runner that so far does everything I've ever wanted brass to do). But still very cool.

Moreover, the nature of art is that this can't *possibly* be game changing for all of us at once. That would imply that we're all playing the same game. And while there's a certain critique of a lack of variety an creativity in certain aspect of the market demand commercial media music, luckily I feel we're still all playing our own, very different games.

Some of these games have considerable overlap and share family resemblances. Others less so. For instance, Christian's Tangerine Dream homage and some of the more electronic demos of Stratus have very little overlap with what I feel to be the sweet spots of the library, but it's still brilliant.


And for anyone inclined to this kind of thing, Wittegenstein's notion of 'language games' might be a good way to frame at least portion of the 'game changing' claim. Some of it is marketing happy talk of course. But what company more than Spitfire has delivered so consistently on changing entire families of the language (games) in which it is possible to think about and write music? (Serious question, other answers are correct too).


----------



## Alex Fraser

miket said:


> The world-weary opinions of some on VI-Control are probably not a useful metric of how a company is doing.


Yep. I remember CH mentioning somewhere that the BBCSO moved insane numbers.

Vi control != real world.


----------



## Stringtree

But I thought BBCSO was A Universal Starting Point already?


----------



## yiph2

I don't think a VST that uses 30GB RAM counts as a universal starting point...


----------



## Zedcars

Spitfire Baked Beans™

A Universal Farting Point.


----------



## Michel Simons

Zedcars said:


> ...Christian theology talk...



Nice pun.


----------



## ism

Anyone notice that main colours on the graphic (green, blue, red) are the SSO colours?


----------



## yiph2

It's also the BBCSO and SStO series (except for SStO they used yellow as chamber strings)


----------



## Zedcars

Sears Poncho said:


> Special needs perhaps. If my eyesight keeps getting worse, I'm gonna have to get the "Bigass print" edition for my symphony gigs. Wait a second..... all my gigs have been cancelled, I'll be fine. Great news!!


Sorry to hear that. I gather gigs of all kinds, large and small, are pretty much gone this year. Only ones left are those conducted online. I wonder if this announcement has anything to do with the current crisis in the music industry regarding musicians getting work.

Regardless, let's hope the damage is not too severe.


----------



## ism

Also, I think that it's entirely possible that when Christian says "game changing" he very genuinely means it in a creative sense, in the sense of the language of composition and concepts of aesthetic spaces being changed in very much the way Wittgenstein talked about meaning and "language games". (Quite regardless of whether or not he's read Wittgenstein). 

When he makes these claims, he typically backs them up with his own compositions, which invariably do push into new aesthetic spaces. Which is part of why the "in action" videos are always so much fun, even with libraries that probably aren't for me.

And I would even say that the (comparatively very, very lame) noodles and sketches and experiments that I share on these pages are examples of new aesthetic spaces opening before my eyes. In fact, that's why I share them, not because I think they're great compositions, but because I have a genuine excitement about new spaces opening.


And a respect for this is no way incompatible with an underlying marketing machine putting out a few too many promises of "game changing" on facebook advertisement.


So we can maintain a sceptical stance to being marketed to by a corporate machine in hyperbolic terms of "game changing", while still respecting and enjoying the genuine ways in which these (and so many other) libraries genuinely do change the (language) games of our creative process.

I'd go so far as to say that vi-c at it's best is when people share new compositions and explore new libraries and *show* how their musical language is actively being expanded (ie. compositional "language games" are being "changed") by new ideas and new libraries and new ideas with old libraries, and old ideas with new libraries ... and so on.


----------



## Noeticus

Everything on earth is about to change, as in, change its location in space and time because we orbit the center of our galaxy etc. and therefore are never in the same place again. 

Therefore, will this be some type of orbiting orchestral library, that orbits with us so we can use it.

BRAAAAAMMMMM!!!


----------



## yiph2

I didn't even recieve it yet...


----------



## Noeticus

The email ad that I just received from Spitfire just now no longer has the words
"It's all about to change" in it.


----------



## Zero&One

Noeticus said:


> The email ad that I just received from Spitfire just now no longer has the words
> "It's all about to change" in it.



Yeah, me too. With subject "This Is London Calling..."

Nothing must be changing then... relax again lads!


----------



## Zero&One

Hang on... hang on...

Who here who doesn't own BBCSO, got the first email?
Is it just BBCSO owners that got this second version email? Hmmmm


----------



## jbuhler

Zero&One said:


> Hang on... hang on...
> 
> Who here who doesn't own BBCSO, got the first email?
> Is it just BBCSO owners that got this second version email? Hmmmm


I don't own BBCSO and so far have not received the email.


----------



## yiph2

jbuhler said:


> I don't own BBCSO and so far have not received the email.


Me too, but another person without BBCSO got it


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zero&One said:


> Hang on... hang on...
> 
> Who here who doesn't own BBCSO, got the first email?
> Is it just BBCSO owners that got this second version email? Hmmmm


That would be me. Got it this morning. Don’t own the library.
But to clarify, I got the same email as everyone else is posting.


----------



## SupremeFist

KallumS said:


> Using the clues from this thread, this could be BBCSO Discovery - a lite version of BBCSO. Including mostly ensembles in a similar vein to Orchestral Tools Inspire. Full price might be £449 with an intro price of £300 or so. The interface could be white and might have one mic position.


Not ensemble patches I hope, though. They always sound synthy to me. 

A real "deathbed proud to have done this" might be full BBCSO at some ridiculous price (£99) for 72 hours only, all proceeds to the NHS...


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> That would be me. Got it this morning. Don’t own the library.
> But to clarify, I got the same email as everyone else is posting.



That’s that theory out the window!
Back to a single with Bob Geldof it is


----------



## cqd

If it's a choir I called it back in November.. said it would be March I think though..


----------



## jbuhler

Alex Fraser said:


> That would be me. Got it this morning. Don’t own the library.
> But to clarify, I got the same email as everyone else is posting.


Now I feel ignored. Maybe I haven't been talking enough about chocolate...


----------



## Zedcars

Where’s the rationale in that kind of selective marketing? Would it not make more sense to send an email to all BBCSO owners and non owners alike?


----------



## vdk-john

ridgero said:


> I wonder if "This is London Calling" can indicate something else, like a Convolution Reverb from the Maida Vale or maybe a feature like Mic Merging. This would be absolutely amazing



Yeah I also thought it could be a reverb with the IR from Maida Vale. Or maybe choirs.

But then this would let me think of a (/ yet another) library:





__





Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra


SStO standard is cheap, a teaser if you will to the real deal in the series: the pro version is as expensive as, but more limited in instruments and mic positions, as BBCSO. Also it doesn't have the room of Maida Vale, which BBCSO has, but is recorded in a small side room (air1) at lyndhurst...



vi-control.net







> hold off a few weeks - we may have something that is more for you if you're thinking of BBCSO.


----------



## yiph2

vdk-john said:


> Yeah I also thought it could be a reverb with the IR from Maida Vale. Or maybe choirs.
> 
> But then this would let me think of a library:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> SStO standard is cheap, a teaser if you will to the real deal in the series: the pro version is as expensive as, but more limited in instruments and mic positions, as BBCSO. Also it doesn't have the room of Maida Vale, which BBCSO has, but is recorded in a small side room (air1) at lyndhurst...
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


Doubt it's reverb... And I also doubt it is a new orchestra


----------



## vdk-john

yiph2 said:


> And I also doubt it is a new orchestra



so why do you think they suggested you wait another few weeks before getting bbcso or sso? you think it might be a bbc so "light"?


----------



## Alex Fraser

I wouldn’t put too much stock in the random email delivery times. Could be simply server load etc. Also, some systems deliberately spread the send load so it doesn’t look like a clumsy spam dump.


----------



## yiph2

I mean it could be, but it's odd if it's another one when they just released BBCSO


----------



## vdk-john

yiph2 said:


> I mean it could be, but it's odd if it's another one when they just released BBCSO



true, although I would not be entirely surprised if it was 

anyway their last instagram / YT post is about BBC SO and they've been quiet about it for a while so yeah it does feel BBC SO related somehow


----------



## RonOrchComp

I just checked...

It took 11 days to get to p20 of the _Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling"_ thread.

This thread took 4 days to get to p20. Oy.


----------



## Stringtree

VSL samples are dry, so MIR. 

Are the folks who guessed reverb expecting an Air Studios IR to make SStO sound more expensive?


----------



## yiph2




----------



## h.s.j.e

I know the colors are their consistent sections designators, but that video makes it look like a Google product. Coming May 7: The BBCSO Chrome Extension.


----------



## vdk-john

yiph2 said:


>




to me this goes even further in the reverb direction  I can't remember how the original "this is london calling" played, but don't think it had that much echo :D


----------



## yiph2

vdk-john said:


> to me this goes even further in the reverb direction  I can't remember how the original "this is london calling" played, but can't remember that much echo :D


I'm pretty sure it was the same as the launch. Listen to CH's trailer tutorial thing


----------



## yiph2

h.s.j.e said:


> I know the colors are their consistent sections designators, but that video makes it look like a Google product. Coming May 7: The BBCSO Chrome Extension.


"The most ambitions project to date, now, you can record with our new plugin, Chrome"


----------



## Zedcars

Any significance to the sections moving at the very start, or is that just a pretty graphic effect?


----------



## yiph2

Maybe MIR pro reverb thing with BBCSO, to move the sections?


----------



## h.s.j.e

I don’t remember if this has been pointed out, but “Mahooosive” could also easily be a punny reference to a gigantic-sounding reverb.


----------



## yiph2

They posted the most pointless video ever on YouTube...


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## ridgero

I'm sure the Spitfire team is sitting at home and laugh because we are interpreting every little detail and building up an unnecessary & ridiculous hype.

Marketing par excellence, well done. I'm not going to post anymore, I hate that kind of marketing.


----------



## Michael Antrum

muziksculp said:


>




It's going to be the long awaited, and rather overdue upgraded/re-packaged Symphonic Orchestra that was supposed to be out last year. If it's not......

I might even go so far as to speculate they might even have balanced the sections.

In fact if I positively overreached myself, how about a Lite, Standard and Pro version ? (much as with the Studio Orchestra ) where you can start out small, and then end up with the full banana without having spend big bucks all at once.....


----------



## Noeticus

I do not own the Spitfire BBC library and I did receive the new email today.


----------



## davidson

muziksculp said:


>




Is that the beatles? An abbey road / beatles composer toolkit?


----------



## Zero&One

Noeticus said:


> I do not own the Spitfire BBC library and I did receive the new email today.



Doesn't seem like it's a new email. Everyone got the same, just at different times. So nothing unusual really.


----------



## Zedcars

Zero&One said:


> Doesn't seem like it's a new email. *Everyone* got the same, just at different times. So nothing unusual really.


----------



## barteredbride

davidson said:


> Is that the beatles? An abbey road / beatles composer toolkit?


It's a slowed down sample of the old BBC radio announcement during wartimes, which was broadcast from Maida Vale studios and always started: "This is London calling..."


----------



## davidson

barteredbride said:


> It's a slowed down sample of the old BBC radio announcement during wartimes, which was broadcast from Maida Vale studios and always started: "This is London calling..."



Of course it is! Ok move on, nothing to see here...


----------



## al_net77

A transposed version of BBCSO to layer with the original and make it sound as big as SSO with the new player?


----------



## NoamL

Spitfire's answer to Berlin Inspire, I guess. A laptop portable version of BBCSO. 

If it's sufficiently cheap and comes with an upgrade path to BBCSO Full edition, it might be interesting. 

The main way Berlin Inspire cut down on tech specs was to only have 2 or 3 dynamic layers, lots of ensemble patches, and a single mic position. There are plenty of instruments in BBCSO that wouldn't be hurt by this approach like the beautiful tonal perc and woodwinds. On the other hand, Berlin Inspire as a whole was... kind of a not great product. I don't use it in final mixes ever, except the woodwinds sometimes. The strings, and even more so the brass and timpani, greatly suffer from having too few dynamic layers, so that the middle of the modwheel feels like crossfading two very different recordings. It's a necessary compromise to get the RAM for a full template down to off the shelf laptop specs.


----------



## Zedcars

Zedcars said:


>


I think they took pity on me as I've just received the email too. lol


----------



## jaketanner

Dr.Quest said:


> Judging by the different colors in the teaser card I would say modular section buying. It makes the most sense.


And when it does, I called it when it first came out . I’m sure I wasn’t the only one, but it only makes sense to split it up.


----------



## jbuhler

Zedcars said:


> I think they took pity on me as I've just received the email too. lol


My inbox is still empty.


----------



## ism

NoamL said:


> Spitfire's answer to Berlin Inspire, I guess. A laptop portable version of BBCSO.
> 
> If it's sufficiently cheap and comes with an upgrade path to BBCSO Full edition, it might be interesting.
> 
> The main way Berlin Inspire cut down on tech specs was to only have 2 or 3 dynamic layers, lots of ensemble patches, and a single mic position. There are plenty of instruments in BBCSO that wouldn't be hurt by this approach like the beautiful tonal perc and woodwinds. On the other hand, Berlin Inspire as a whole was... kind of a not great product. I don't use it in final mixes ever, except the woodwinds sometimes. The strings, and even more so the brass and timpani, greatly suffer from having too few dynamic layers, so that the middle of the modwheel feels like crossfading two very different recordings. It's a necessary compromise to get the RAM for a full template down to off the shelf laptop specs.



This would make sense. Even just a single mic version (so long as its one of the mixes, and doesn't repeat the issue of the Studio series where the lack of close mics in the SStS standard isn't, I feel, an issue. But is a deal breaker for the winds standard edition.)

But Paul has hinted of an upcoming Staffpad version of BBCSO. SSO staffpad is currently $400. Which makes it a high end product for professionals who already have SSO.

But I have to think that, particularly for an educational market (which BBCSO was hinting at going for) mightn't there be space for a broad, inexpensive desktop + tablet product here.

In terms of learning to compose in a certain dimension (harmony, counterpoint etc) staffpad would be great ... but at $500 for an iPad app ... well loads of respect for the work that's non making this staffed a professional grade tool sketching tool. But, well, again, I'm thinking there could be another lower end, educational and/or entry point market here.


----------



## muk

To quote from the Spitfire BBC SO webpage:

'This is just the beginning.

The founding values of the BBC – to inform, educate and entertain – could not resonate more richly with Spitfire, making this partnership a truly exciting and defining moment. Beyond a new standard for orchestral sample libraries lies a blueprint for an ongoing collaboration with the BBC that will provide resources – online and live – for a community of musicians ready to produce the orchestral music and blockbuster scores of the future. BBC Symphony Orchestra is just the beginning...'


----------



## Zero&One

Splitting out a library wouldn’t be mahoooosive, something on this marketing level?
They’ve already been asked about splitting and previously said no, as it would go against the whole concept.

I post a project, but 50 people reply saying “I’ve only got the rainbow edition “ Can you remove the winds & brass please?


----------



## Technostica

barteredbride said:


> It's a slowed down sample of the old BBC radio announcement during wartimes, which was broadcast from Maida Vale studios and always started: "This is London calling..."


It sounds like King Tubby if he had gone to Eaton!
So maybe Christian and Paul have converted to Rastafarianism and we can expect their first Dub library!
Paul ‘Scratch’ Thompson and Christian ‘Sniff’ Henson will look great in the walkthroughs with fake dreads and clouds of billowing smoke. All very Ali G.


----------



## ism

If every school kid in the UK could walk around with a version of BBCSO + staffpad on their ipad/phone .. that could be mahoooosive.


----------



## Alex Fraser

NoamL said:


> Spitfire's answer to Berlin Inspire, I guess. A laptop portable version of BBCSO.
> 
> If it's sufficiently cheap and comes with an upgrade path to BBCSO Full edition, it might be interesting.
> 
> The main way Berlin Inspire cut down on tech specs was to only have 2 or 3 dynamic layers, lots of ensemble patches, and a single mic position. There are plenty of instruments in BBCSO that wouldn't be hurt by this approach like the beautiful tonal perc and woodwinds. On the other hand, Berlin Inspire as a whole was... kind of a not great product. I don't use it in final mixes ever, except the woodwinds sometimes. The strings, and even more so the brass and timpani, greatly suffer from having too few dynamic layers, so that the middle of the modwheel feels like crossfading two very different recordings. It's a necessary compromise to get the RAM for a full template down to off the shelf laptop specs.


Nice. 
I think just a single mic/custom mix version of the library. Cheap to produce (!) and keeps the whole “one orchestra” ethos intact.

Use the lite version on the road (free download for existing users) plus easy sharing between versions.

As I understand it, the library is fairly light on dynamic layers already, so not much to cut there. Trim the mics, colour white, Big campaign. Done.

Maybe just wishful thinking as the owner of a new MBP. 😅


----------



## easyrider

I just got the email...

Thought it was from google


----------



## jbuhler

I no longer feel left out! London finally called and I also received the email.

I do hope it is something more interesting than just a cut down version of the BBCSO.


----------



## ryanstrong

What other studios are there in LONDON that record full orchestras that Spitfire has NOT recorded at?


----------



## CT

Watford!


----------



## schrodinger1612

It all changes May 7th when all you have to is turn your laptop on and Olof Arnaulds will do the rest for you


----------



## Audio Birdi

ryanstrong said:


> What other studios are there in LONDON that record full orchestras that Spitfire has NOT recorded at?


Abbey Road Orchestra perhaps?


----------



## Zedcars

Poster just leaked online...


----------



## Michael Antrum

ism said:


> In terms of learning to compose in a certain dimension (harmony, counterpoint etc) staffpad would be great ... but at $500 for an iPad app ... well loads of respect for the work that's non making this staffed a professional grade tool sketching tool. But, well, again, I'm thinking there could be another lower end, educational and/or entry point market here.



The third party libraries are optional. There are full set of built in stock sounds that come with the Staffpad. It would be nice to see a lower cost orchestra for it, but compare to the kind of money paid for desktop libraries, and I think you might find Staffpad is not such a bad deal after all....

Since starting to use Staffpad, I am much more in control of my music, and I am learning new things every time I use it. Being free of the keyboard (the 88 note kind, as well as the qwerty kind), is act]us;ly rather liberating.....


----------



## vdk-john

miket said:


> Watford!



That's Herts


----------



## ism

Michael Antrum said:


> The third party libraries are optional. There are full set of built in stock sounds that come with the Staffpad. It would be nice to see a lower cost orchestra for it, but compare to the kind of money paid for desktop libraries, and I think you might find Staffpad is not such a bad deal after all....
> 
> Since starting to use Staffpad, I am much more in control of my music, and I am learning new things every time I use it. Being free of the keyboard (the 88 note kind, as well as the qwerty kind), is act]us;ly rather liberating.....



Yes, I do think staffpad is good value for a lot of people. 

I don’t think it replaces logic and SSO libraries though. Not least for the kinds of nuanced performances and improvisations that some sampled instruments are Increasingly becoming capable of. 

Yet to sit down and work out harmonies, Logic isn’t necessarily much better than working on paper (Or at least, I fine score editing cumbersome, and tend to get frustrated and just reach for paper).

I suppose I’m dreaming a bit here of having the best of both worlds. I really do think it could be mahooosive, if someone could figure out how to pull it off in a way the not only worked for high end pros, but that would create, across platforms, a worklow that could frictionlessly integrate of writing and learning and improvising and performing. 

Existing technology seems always to almost able to deliver this ... but then drops the ball at some point of friction in the workflow. 

Clearly, as amazing as what we currently have is, there are mahooove things yet to be done.


----------



## Stringtree

Why would a pro outfit have such a terribly amateurish slowed-down piece of audio? 

What does “mahooooosive” mean?

Is there steganography in that audio sample? Viewing the spectral characteristics, can anyone see something printed, or a picture? This is extremely common in amateur radio. Is there data riding along with that? 





__





Steganography - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org










__





Hellschreiber - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





Greg


----------



## Technostica

I tried watching the video backwards and up popped the clear message that ‘Ringo is alive’.
More Abbey Road shenanigans then, so maybe they’ve captured the impulse response of Ringo in flip flops walking across the famous zebra crossing!


----------



## KEM

Zero&One said:


> But still... you venture into the thread young Padawan. Temption in you I feel.... Hmmm! ~Yoda 2020



Well now we for sure know it’s BBC, which I don’t even own, so there’s certainly no temptation now lol


----------



## ism

KEM said:


> Well now we for sure know it’s BBC, which I don’t even own, so there’s certainly no temptation now lol



You would think that ... and yet ... Spitfire finds a way ...


----------



## Zedcars

Stringtree said:


> Why would a pro outfit have such a terribly amateurish slowed-down piece of audio?
> 
> What does “mahooooosive” mean?
> 
> Is there steganography in that audio sample? Viewing the spectral characteristics, can anyone see something printed, or a picture? This is extremely common in amateur radio. Is there data riding along with that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steganography - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hellschreiber - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greg


OK, well I just had a quick look in iZotope RX7 and it looks like there is something there, but I can't quite make it out... 🤔






(That is honestly the spectrogram from the teaser video, but I couldn't resist a childish joke...I'm sorry!)


----------



## dgburns

@christianhenson. My guess is on an ethnic library, maybe something Chinese or Indian. Huge markets that make movies, little sample libs done the Spitfire way. Just a guess.

(shrugs shoulders, and goes back to fiddling with hardware synth)


----------



## Sapphire

The joke is on us bois. They had us in the first half, not gonna lie. It's the recording of the first words after DJ picked up their call and it will be the beginning of a true love story. Think of TJ and Nick. They were fighting over VI's back in the day. And then came TSFH.

Stoked to try DJ Strings! 

I would actually love to see something like that, but unfortunately it seems to be a fantasy :(


----------



## NoamL

ryanstrong said:


> What other studios are there in LONDON that record full orchestras that Spitfire has NOT recorded at?



Abbey Road 1.


----------



## easyrider

dgburns said:


> (shrugs shoulders, and goes back to fiddling with himself)



fixed


----------



## Jon W

Sapphire said:


> The joke is on us bois. They had us in the first half, not gonna lie. It's the recording of the first words after DJ picked up their call and it will be the beginning of a true love story. Think of TJ and Nick. They were fighting over VI's back in the day. And then came TSFH.
> 
> Stoked to try DJ Strings!
> 
> I would actually love to see something like that, but unfortunately it seems to be a fantasy :(


A re-review of HZFS by DJ, recorded beyond the edge of silence?


----------



## MauroPantin

A more affordable 1 mic version of BBCSO would definitely be interesting for me. 

I'm game for ANY fully-featured orchestra that can compete with Hollywood Orchestra's pricing, really.


----------



## Technostica

Jon W said:


> A re-review of HZFS by DJ, recorded beyond the edge of silence?


Recorded in a padded cell with the IR of the space included.


----------



## dgburns

easyrider said:


> fixed



@easyrider - easy there rider


----------



## dzilizzi

MauroPantin said:


> A more affordable 1 mic version of BBCSO would definitely be interesting for me.
> 
> I'm game for ANY fully-featured orchestra that can compete with Hollywood Orchestra's pricing, really.


Unfortunately, at $99, all you are getting are the spill mics.


----------



## ism

Hmm, a $99 BBCSO lite for staffpad ... might be game changing enough.


----------



## Alex Fraser

A BBCSO "lite" isn't going to set VI control on fire with excitement, but there has to be a fairly large chunk of folk like myself who saw the BBCSO price, added an amount for extra storage, reasoned that they'd probably never have the need (or rig) for the mics....and so didn't buy.

A laptop ready version coupled with a clever price would excite a number of people and probably the education market too, who don't have the need for the mics and would like to save on storage.

It will be what it will be. Come on the 7th.


----------



## brek

Since targeting the education market came up, these are things that matter:

1) Cost
2) individual sections
3) relatively low PC requirements (but not bare bones)
3b) no dongle (students take their laptops everywhere)
4) Easy to use

A one mic version of BBCSO that (I'm guessing) brings the storage down to ~50GB and the price south of $500 could be a game changer.


----------



## angeruroth

That video...
An orchestra with moving pieces...
Aperture BBCSO? A positioning tool?
Sorry to interrupt...
Carry on...


----------



## Jett Hitt

I'll give the Spitfire boys this much, they sure know how to cause a fuss. I was mostly uninterested until I realized by way of the email that this was BBCSO specific. Now I am all ears. Lite versions don't much help those of us with the complete library. A Staffpad version would. But a pro version with deeper sampling and tweaked brass would be awesome. Did I mention the horn? A new horn, please. I guess a choir would be cool, but mostly I want a new horn. More percussion would be really cool, too. Oh, did I mention the horn?


----------



## Michael Antrum

I was going to buy Berlin Woodwinds and the Harps for Staffpad today, but I've decided to hang on until the 7th just in case.

But I still think it's the SSO.

Besides, Spitfire made no announcement whatsoever about the Symphonic Spitfire products in Staffpad, they just, well, erm, arrived. Now no-one likes a good announcement like the Spitfire crew, and so i doubt that it's BBCSO for staffpad, though I'd not mind being proved wrong.


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

I'm still waiting for the BBC Radiophonic Workshop library . . .


----------



## ism

BBC soloists is another obvious possibility. I'd especially love especially deeply sampled, hyper lyrical wind soloists. 

Although it doesn't fit with the graphic of the orchestral seating.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Me (and my wallet) when Spitfire says the game is changed again


----------



## Jett Hitt

Michael Antrum said:


> I was going to buy Berlin Woodwinds and the Harps for Staffpad today, but I've decided to hang on until the 7th just in case.
> 
> But I still think it's the SSO.
> 
> Besides, Spitfire made no announcement whatsoever about the Symphonic Spitfire products in Staffpad, they just, well, erm, arrived. Now no-one likes a good announcement like the Spitfire crew, and so i doubt that it's BBCSO for staffpad, though I'd not mind being proved wrong.


I, too, doubt that this is for Staffpad. For what it is worth, Berlin Woodwinds have been the most disappointing of all the Staffpad libraries I have bought.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Really, that was going to be next on the list for me.....


----------



## Michael Antrum

ism said:


> I'd especially love especially deeply sampled, hyper lyrical wind soloists.



I’ve got two Labrador Retrievers who match that description perfectly......


----------



## easyrider

Michael Antrum said:


> I’ve got two Labrador Retievers who match that description perfectly......



Names?


----------



## KeyMaestro

KallumS said:


> To sell Thunderbolt, Apollo & Arrow interfaces.


And more UA plugins... It what they call a _loss leader..._


----------



## filipjonathan

davidson said:


> Is that the beatles? An abbey road / beatles composer toolkit?


Oh my gosh yes! I want that!!


----------



## barteredbride

Ok just for fun, I´m gonna go crazy.


That picture of the orchestra in the teaser is just toooooo close to this:







The choir _London Voices_ have recorded so many huuge film soundtracks, including being the choir for the Star Wars films, from the original trilogy from 1977, to 2005.

List of their film soundtracks here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Voices

Recorded at Maida Vale so it fits into the same space as BBCSO.


----------



## ism

barteredbride said:


> Ok just for fun, I´m gonna go crazy.
> 
> 
> That picture of the orchestra in the teaser is just toooooo close to this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The choir _London Voices_ have recorded so many huuge film soundtracks, including being the choir for the Star Wars films, from the original trilogy from 1977, to 2005.
> 
> List of their film soundtracks here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Voices
> 
> Recorded at Maida Vale so it fits into the same space as BBCSO.


Yes, please!


----------



## Virtuoso

christianhenson said:


> I pitched this idea to the team with a "this is a death-bed opportunity"
> 
> they looked on blankly..
> 
> "...where we think to ourselves, we did THAT".








When we were 'two little boys', Rolf touched us in ways you can't imagine. I still get a lump in my throat. So today I'm very excited to present, in association with the BBC, Rolf Harris Wobbleboard Swarm. Just imagine the sound of 16 Wobbleboards playing simultaneously in the glorious acoustics of HMP Stafford! Mics include Decca Tree, Balcony and Exercise Yard. Pre-orders will also get Rolf Harris Didgeridoo Chamber Evolutions. And when sales start flagging we'll include a bonus Rolf Harris Neo Stylophone.


----------



## José Herring

TigerTheFrog said:


> Only two microphones. Is that enough?



Actually sounds a lot better than I thought it would. 

Elvis in the early days only had 1 mic.


Dollismine said:


> +1


The instruments are already in position so a MIR style plugin would be redundant.


----------



## Christopher Rocky

Virtuoso said:


> When we were 'two little boys', Rolf touched us in ways you can't imagine. I still get a lump in my throat. So today I'm very excited to present, in association with the BBC, Rolf Harris Wobbleboard Swarm. Just imagine the sound of 16 Wobbleboards playing simultaneously in the glorious acoustics of HMP Stafford! Mics include Decca Tree, Balcony and Exercise Yard. Pre-orders will also get Rolf Harris Didgeridoo Chamber Evolutions. And when sales start flagging we'll include a bonus Rolf Harris Neo Stylophone.



thank you sir, thank you


----------



## Zhao Shen

RogiervG said:


> sneaking in with a little topic hijack: when are you going to update the guide? last update is from 2018. many things have changed since then..



Yeah, I've been meaning to take another pass at some point but I haven't been religiously going through VST walkthroughs/demos like I used to, so I think it will be some time before I take a stab at it, since I don't want to give bad advice. The only thing worse than an outdated guide would be a misleading/inaccurate one!


----------



## Michael Antrum

easyrider said:


> Names?



The one on the right is called Elsa, the one on the left is called Sapphire and she is Elsa's daughter. Elsa recently had another litter, and here's some of the puppies below. Sapphire is having her first litter in about 6 weeks.....so we are looking forward to that...


----------



## wayne_rowley

Don’t know what this new product will be. But one thing is certain:

7th of May is my birthday, so this must be my Birthday Present and we wants it - yes Precious, we wants it. Gollum, gollum...


----------



## redlester

Michael Antrum said:


> The one on the right is called Elsa, the one on the left is called Sapphire and she is Elsa's daughter. Elsa recently had another litter, and here's some of the puppies below. Sapphire is having her first litter in about 6 weeks.....so we are looking forward to that...



My wife wants to know if the black one is for sale.... looks like it probably has plenty of dynamic layers and I bet it loves to chase round robins?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Here's the black girl on her own. She's called Winnie, and has a lovely new home already....


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Edit: adding image of SYMPHONIC MOTIONS

Symphonic Motions? That’s new, isn’t it — so ... something like Aperture???

Check the Spitfire Player instrument list in Paul’s video @ 39 secs.


----------



## RogiervG

PaulBrimstone said:


> Symphonic Motions?
> 
> Check Paul’s video @ 39 secs.



that would be quite a dull/weird offering, having a "this is london calling" phrase teaser and how that phrase is related to BBSCO.


----------



## davidson

PaulBrimstone said:


> Symphonic Motions?
> 
> Check Paul’s video @ 39 secs.




Never in my life have I had that much empty desk space.


----------



## dzilizzi

davidson said:


> Never in my life have I had that much empty desk space.


Do you think there is a big pile of papers and assorted desk stuff temporarily on the floor while he recorded this?


----------



## ism

Just googled Rolf Harris. +1 for child sexual assault jokes not being even a little bit funny.


----------



## brenneisen

ism said:


> Just googled Rolf Harris. +1 for child sexual assault jokes not being even a little bit funny.



it seems Virtuoso doesn't have a virtuos character

but you can call others "dickhead" and admins do nothing, so maybe a pedo-joke won't bother them as well


----------



## korgscrew2000

Motions would make sense seeing as they have string waves in the Olafur Chambers library. 

8dii 


PaulBrimstone said:


> Symphonic Motions? That’s new, isn’t it — so ... something like Aperture???
> 
> Check the Spitfire Player instrument list in Paul’s video @ 39 secs.




We may have a winner here. They did waves in the Olafur Chambers library. A full library of arcs with different timings etc could be it. 

Sure, 8dio have arcs but we need legato so we can change the note at the top of the arc.


----------



## Laptoprabbit

Zedcars said:


>



Perhaps not in the best taste for our Asian friends...


----------



## Zedcars

Laptoprabbit said:


> Perhaps not in the best taste for our Asian friends...


I can assure you I mean no harm - only trying to spread some smiles in this dreadful time. But if anyone says they find it offensive, then I shall delete it.

EDIT: You're right, it's gone.


----------



## Noeticus

"This.... is..... London.... calling.... collect.... charges.... apply...."


----------



## MauroPantin

davidson said:


> Never in my life have I had that much empty desk space.






dzilizzi said:


> Do you think there is a big pile of papers and assorted desk stuff temporarily on the floor while he recorded this?



As I type this I am looking at my empty desk which I am using for conference calls at least twice a week. And to my right a pile of papers which were on the desk previous to the lockdown and have now found a home there, right next to the roomba


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Follow up to my earlier post:

I guess this is it, then: SYMPHONIC MOTIONS


----------



## dpasdernick

"It's all about to change"

I'm betting it isn't...


----------



## Alex Fraser

PaulBrimstone said:


> Follow up to my earlier post:
> 
> I guess this is it, then: SYMPHONIC MOTIONS


Maybe we should talk more about what isn't in that list? I would have thought the entire Spitfire collection would be there!


----------



## MauroPantin

There's another folder called "SA Recordings" there, the contents of which I'm guessing would take this thread into the "crash the VIC server" territory


----------



## Craig Duke

My sources tell me Spitfire has sampled David Bruce's eyebrows at HAir Studios.


----------



## enyawg

Every player has 25 mics in a halo around there head?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Alex Fraser said:


> Maybe we should talk more about what isn't in that list? I would have thought the entire Spitfire collection would be there!



He probably can’t afford it.....


----------



## korgscrew2000

Alex Fraser said:


> Maybe we should talk more about what isn't in that list? I would have thought the entire Spitfire collection would be there!



90% is in Kontakt. Looks like everything is there to me in regards to thier own player.


----------



## Alex Fraser

korgscrew2000 said:


> 90% is in Kontakt. Looks like everything is there to me in regards to thier own player.


Ah, of course. I’ll get my coat..


----------



## korgscrew2000

Alex Fraser said:


> Ah, of course. I’ll get my coat..



Keep drinking, we'll be here a while.


----------



## doctoremmet

MauroPantin said:


> SA Recordings


Nah. That’s just Alev Lenz, Oliver Patrice Weder and Lea Bertucci. They record albums / produce sample packs off of said albums for the SA Recordings record label. I know; I own them 🙈


----------



## robgb

One of these days Spitfire needs to actually follow through on this promise.


----------



## barteredbride

PaulBrimstone said:


> Edit: adding image of SYMPHONIC MOTIONS
> 
> Symphonic Motions? That’s new, isn’t it — so ... something like Aperture???
> 
> Check the Spitfire Player instrument list in Paul’s video @ 39 secs.



That part of the image is blurred out now.

So... that's it then?!

Symphonic Mahooooooooosives


----------



## José Herring

On May 7th, to celebrate brexit and the return to the old Monetary system of Greater Britain there will be a flash sale starting at 12:00am GMT. For .02ns all spitfire libraries are available for a Sixpence!!!


----------



## Zedcars

barteredbride said:


> That part of the image is blurred out now.
> 
> So... that's it then?!
> 
> Symphonic Mahooooooooosives


Oh bloody hell. That just draws more attention to it. They should have just left it there tbh.


----------



## Zedcars

So, riffing on that name then in connection with BBCSO...I wonder if it will be like a BBCSO library but with ready made phrases and ostinati, possibly with ensembles as well?


----------



## Noeticus

We have all taken the bait.


----------



## Zedcars

josejherring said:


> On May 7th, to *commiserate* brexit and the return to the old Monetary system of Greater Britain there will be a flash sale starting at 12:00am GMT. For .02ns all spitfire libraries are available for a Sixpence!!!


FTFY.


----------



## barteredbride

Maybe the title on Paul's computer was just abbreviated, and the new library is actually called _Symphonic going through the Motions_


----------



## Laptoprabbit

Zedcars said:


> Oh bloody hell. That just draws more attention to it. They should have just left it there tbh.


You're right, better to have left some benefit of the doubt 😂 they might as well have drawn arrows pointing at it!


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Zedcars said:


> So, riffing on that name then in connection with BBCSO...I wonder if it will be like a BBCSO library but with ready made phrases and ostinati, possibly with ensembles as well?


I dunno, I suspect it will be something fancier than that, perhaps along the lines of the Aperture innovation, sections blending through sections? Also, not to be too crude about it, but Motions sounds awfully lavatorial. Right up there with Fluid Shorts.


----------



## gst98

BBCSO would be almost the biggest anti-climax I could think of. Really hope it's something mroe exciting.


----------



## barteredbride

PaulBrimstone said:


> ...perhaps along the lines of the Aperture innovation, sections blending through sections?


----------



## korgscrew2000

Laptoprabbit said:


> You're right, better to have left some benefit of the doubt 😂 they might as well have drawn arrows pointing at it!



Absolutely. The cat is out of the bag. He must be kicking himself. 

Hi, I'm Paul Thompson from spitfire audio and I'm really exited to announce, Symphonic Motions.


----------



## KallumS

If it is Symphonic Motions I can't see how anything could possibly be changed by that. More marketing spiel as usual.


----------



## mushanga

KallumS said:


> If it is Symphonic Motions I can't see how anything could possibly be changed by that. More marketing spiel.


Yep..disappointing. Was hoping for a revamp of the Symphony Orchestra range or something more substantial (maybe a subscription model or new scalable GUIs across their whole line). Shame.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Please withhold judgment until you see Paul and Christian and the Spitfire staff demonstrate the motions.


----------



## Michael Antrum

KallumS said:


> If it is Symphonic Motions....



Ah, but what if that’s what they want you to think - and if you are indeed thinking what they want you to think, and not what you think you actually want, then you could actually not want what they want or even what they think you want.

Clear ?


----------



## dbudimir

barteredbride said:


> That part of the image is blurred out now.
> 
> So... that's it then?!
> 
> Symphonic Mahooooooooosives



I think they blurred it out just to make us feel like someone actually guessed it right!!


----------



## Robert_G

I've said it before....unless it's a EW type subscription option....it will just be another lib release promoted as the second coming....but in reality will be just another lib full of bugs that's will be ignored while Spitfire continues to release more libs faster than I can release gas after the mother-in-law's Christmas dinner.


----------



## Noeticus

The irony is... is that all of us that complain will still buy it. Hahahahahah!

Because we are addicted to buying VI libraries.


----------



## Sapphire

angeruroth said:


> Aperture BBCSO?


This was a triumph...

(Edit: I'm making a note here: )


----------



## MaxOctane

C'mon guys, we've been here before. Symphonic Motions is not *the* announcement this week. It's just the name of an in-development library.

(_edit: FWIW my money's on Bass Clarinet in BBCSO_)


----------



## Alex Fraser

Are we sure we're not being trolled at this point? Or maybe it's another inbound library?

If the full title of Thursday's library was accidentally revealed as "BBCSO Symphonic Motions" - would we be any the wiser? Loops? Evos? Marketing? Also, so close to the release?

_"It's all about to change."_

This suggests to me we're looking at the original BBCSO USP with added gravy. So how do you change it and switch it up? *Add mics?* How many do you need! *Add instruments? *SF have already been clear there's no major movement in that area. *Split it into purchasable sections?* Kinda wrecks the "One Orchestra" ethos.

But what if you launch a two pronged attack? Firstly, add a pro screen to the existing product. We already know that was in the works. Add the remaining instruments. Maybe something else? Mic mixing across multiple instances?

Second prong: New single mix version at a lower price point. Perhaps a *"ninja mix"* combining mix 1 and the spills. I know I've harped on about this already, but it really would be an "everything changes moment" - an entire pro-line orchestra with all that pedigree at a lower price point. Not that much excitement for the minority VIC crowd, but it would light the pants on fire for everyone else, including those in education.

Or it could just be some loops featuring the BBCSO..

Perhaps I've got this all wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## dcoscina

These threads really offer a peak into our personalities eh?


----------



## Alex Fraser

dcoscina said:


> These threads really offer a peak into our personalities eh?


That would make me the perpetual excitable optimist who think too much.


----------



## gst98

Paul talked before about a revised gui for the player, so whatever the new library is, I think it’s likely to bring the new player.


----------



## angeruroth

LOL, next time they could add a few random names for libs that don't exist and never will just to confuse you and test the limits of VI-C


----------



## harmaes

Is Symphonic Motions not just the working title for the Spitfire Audio Player version of Evo Grid 3 Strings in Motion? Or an extended version of that?


----------



## yiph2

harmaes said:


> Is Symphonic Motions not just the working title for the Spitfire Audio Player version of Evo Grid 3 Strings in Motion? Or an extended version of that?


No, they still have the title Evo Grid 3 on their website. It's also on Kontakt, not their player


----------



## gussunkri

harmaes said:


> Is Symphonic Motions not just the working title for the Spitfire Audio Player version of Evo Grid 3 Strings in Motion? Or an extended version of that?


I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## harmaes

yiph2 said:


> No, they still have the title Evo Grid 3 on their website. It's also on Kontakt, not their player



I meant in development maybe.


----------



## Zedcars

Then why blank it out and update the vid?


----------



## jbuhler

Zedcars said:


> Then why blank it out and update the vid?


To make us think that must be the answer to Thursday.


----------



## Zero&One

If it's a future release, they'll still want it kept under wraps.


----------



## HardyP

Hm... "all about to change".... "Symphonic Motions"....

That translates to me:
"Sorry guys, we were wrong about the whole Multisample-approach the last years... we admit that @Sonokinetic BV was an the right track, but we now proudly present the newly invented, analog-tape-optimised, played in the only acceptable hall of the world, brought to our own simplified sampler, the phrase-b... eehhh, Motion-based approach!"


----------



## yiph2

HardyP said:


> Hm... "all about to change".... "Symphonic Motions"....
> 
> That translates to me:
> "Sorry guys, we were wrong about the whole Multisample-approach the last years... we admit that @Sonokinetic BV was an the right track, but we now proudly present the newly invented, analog-tape-optimised, played in the only acceptable hall of the world, brought to our own simplified sampler, the phrase-b... eehhh, Motion-based approach!"


Or maybe, the phrase "all about to change" is literal
Like evolutions, so its actually "changing" as the time goes


----------



## redlester

josejherring said:


> On May 7th, to celebrate brexit and the return to the old Monetary system of Greater Britain there will be a flash sale starting at 12:00am GMT. For .02ns all spitfire libraries are available for a Sixpence!!!



Surely it would be "half a sixpence"? 
"I'm Paul Thompson and I'm very excited to present to you today, Spitfire Tommy Steele Composer Toolkit." 

I think without any doubt Symphonic Motions is correct, because the teaser video has the orchestra sections in motion, sliding into place. Could be something along the lines of an accompaniment to BBC SO, as EWC Evo is to the main library.


----------



## korgscrew2000

yiph2 said:


> Or maybe, the phrase "all about to change" is literal
> Like evolutions, so its actually "changing" as the time goes


Also the London calling you tube video is stretched almost like a string arc. Some may say it's in motion


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> Or maybe, the phrase "all about to change" is literal
> Like evolutions, so its actually "changing" as the time goes


Clever!


----------



## yiph2

Alex Fraser said:


> Clever!


----------



## RogiervG

if it's symphonic motions.it would be totally weird and to be frank kind of stupid too. 
it wouldn't make any logical sense to do "this is london calling" again, and not having to do with bbcso at all.

Secondly.. when are they finally going to actually FIX the libraries, as they often promise but are barely doing it?


----------



## korgscrew2000

RogiervG said:


> if it's symphonic motions.it would be totally weird and to be frank kind of stupid too.
> it wouldn't make any logical sense to do "this is london calling" again, and not having to do with bbcso at all.
> 
> Secondly.. when are they finally going to actually FIX the libraries, as they often promise but are barely doing it?


They have used London calling for a few libraries, not just BBC.


----------



## Adam Takacs

RogiervG said:


> if it's symphonic motions.it would be totally weird and to be frank kind of stupid too.
> it wouldn't make any logical sense to do "this is london calling" again, and not having to do with bbcso at all.
> 
> Secondly.. when are they finally going to actually FIX the libraries, as they often promise but are barely doing it?


I also got the email from spitfire a few days ago. The picture contains a link which is contains that part:

eba_bbc_symphony_orchestra_teaser_saturday_2nd

So I think it will be a BBCSO stuff, hopefully a serious update for Windows 10.

By the way, the link takes you to the Spitfire index page ...


----------



## Zero&One

One image... like nectar to bees 
:emoji_honey_pot:


----------



## yiph2

korgscrew2000 said:


> They have used London calling for a few libraries, not just BBC.


Which ones?


----------



## RogiervG

korgscrew2000 said:


> They have used London calling for a few libraries, not just BBC.


But the last impression counts in this case. BBCSO had the iconic microphone and the london calling audio and text... now they also do the audio phrase once again... shortly after BBCSO (only 6 or so months). it would make sense (logically) if they do something BBCSO related, because that is what people reference to, when hearing this is london calling phrase.


----------



## korgscrew2000

yiph2 said:


> Which ones?



They did it for a few of the Albion libraries.


----------



## vdk-john

korgscrew2000 said:


> They did it for a few of the Albion libraries.



Albion BBC Originals - £29


----------



## Go To 11

My hunch is that Symphonic Motions won't be it. They wouldn't purposefully drop the BBCSO name at the front of it in the patch, so that it appears lower in the list than BBCSO. Just how both Eric Whitacre patches sit next to each other. Could be wrong, of course!


----------



## korgscrew2000

Go To 11 said:


> My hunch is that Symphonic Motions won't be it. They wouldn't purposefully drop the BBCSO name at the front of it in the patch, so that it appears lower in the list than BBCSO. Just how both Eric Whitacre patches sit next to each other. Could be wrong, of course!



Well, that's what I'm putting my money on. Why would they blur out the plugin?


----------



## Fry777

korgscrew2000 said:


> Well, that's what I'm putting my money on. Why would they blur out the plugin?



Because that might be another future project which they don't want competitors to be aware of...


----------



## dzilizzi

Well, Symphonic Motions may also be the test name of something already released. Like the Evo Grids. Paul may just more excited about that version.


----------



## Brasart

Looks like it might be every traditional orchestral library from Spitfire ported to their player, don't think this concerns just BBCSO _(if it does at all?)._

I think it might be general updates to all their flagship libraries _(SSO, BBCSO, Albion(?))_, and maybe a new library which would be Symphonic Motions, hence "_*all *_will change" as in literally every big product has something new.

(From Christian's twitter, just now)


----------



## yiph2

Brasart said:


> Looks like it might be every traditional orchestral library from Spitfire ported to their player, don't think this concerns just BBCSO _(if it does at all?)._
> 
> I think it might be general updates to all their flagship libraries _(SSO, BBCSO, Albion(?))_, and maybe a new library which would be Symphonic Motions, hence "_*all *_will change" as in literally every big product has something new.
> 
> (From Christian's twitter, just now)


If you look at the far right, you can see that part is the same image as the one they posted on twitter


----------



## Alex Fraser

Brasart said:


> Looks like it might be every traditional orchestral library from Spitfire ported to their player, don't think this concerns just BBCSO _(if it does at all)._
> 
> I think it might be general updates to all their flagship libraries _(SSO, BBCSO, Albion(?))_, and maybe a new library which would be Symphonic Motions, hence "_*all *_will change" as in literally every big product has something new.
> 
> (From Christian's twitter, just now)


Looks like a traditional orchestral arrangement there. Longs in octaves down below, lots of ostinato. Some big hits at the end. Not very evo-ish.

Also: I need a new hobby.


----------



## yiph2

Brasart said:


> Looks like it might be every traditional orchestral library from Spitfire ported to their player, don't think this concerns just BBCSO _(if it does at all?)._
> 
> I think it might be general updates to all their flagship libraries _(SSO, BBCSO, Albion(?))_, and maybe a new library which would be Symphonic Motions, hence "_*all *_will change" as in literally every big product has something new.
> 
> (From Christian's twitter, just now)


It also looks like a new view of the Spitfire player, looks like the expression fader is at the bottom this time


----------



## MauroPantin

yiph2 said:


> If you look at the far right, you can see that part is the same image as the one they posted on twitter



Also, as far as I know, only the LABS collection has a white background in their player.


----------



## yiph2

MauroPantin said:


> Also, as far as I know, only the LABS collection has a white background in their player.


I meant the red thing that was sticking out, it probably is the same picture from the teaser they posted.
And I think some of the lower end stuff also has a white background like OPW and Lea Betrucci


----------



## Alex Fraser

That graphic we all know and love appears to have a prominent position in the GUI. Perhaps it's used as part of the patch browser system: Click the section, see the presets. 🤔


----------



## Brasart

Alex Fraser said:


> Looks like a traditional orchestral arrangement there. Longs in octaves down below, lots of ostinato. Some big hits at the end. Not very evo-ish.
> 
> Also: I need a new hobby.



Forgot to copy/paste but yeah, his tweet says that this picture is showing the trailer track for what is coming on thursday


----------



## yiph2

At least they changed the Spitfire player for this one...


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

If it's the same MIDI he posted on instagram earlier, it's Danse Macabre...


----------



## yiph2

Well it looks different to me
And why would they use a song that was not composed for the trailer?


----------



## Noeticus

Dear Spitfire,

To stop my eyes from freaking out, please make sure that any GUI you now or ever make allows us to take a white GUI background and make it dark grey etc. I hate WHITE on my computer screen as it irritates my eyes and brain. DARK MODE should be a simple thing for a user to switch to.


----------



## Zedcars

Noeticus said:


> Dear Spitfire,
> 
> To stop my eyes from freaking out, please make sure that any GUI you now or ever make allows us to take a white GUI background and make it dark grey etc. I hate WHITE on my computer screen as it irritates my eyes and brain. DARK MODE should be a simple thing for a user to switch to.


It is possible to change the background colour if you know what you’re doing.


----------



## Stringtree

Noeticus said:


> Dear Spitfire,
> 
> To stop my eyes from freaking out, please make sure that any GUI you now or ever make allows us to take a white GUI background and make it dark grey etc. I hate WHITE on my computer screen as it irritates my eyes and brain. DARK MODE should be a simple thing for a user to switch to.



I often read vi-c at night in bed, with an iPad hung from a mic boom stand. I love that this is a darker website, but anything at 255,255,255 is like a searing hot poker to the brain. +1 on this. Owwww.


----------



## yiph2

Does it look like the Spitfire player is smaller than before?


----------



## Zedcars

It’s resizable I think.


----------



## yiph2

But then why are people complaining about it's too big?


----------



## Zedcars

\_(".)_/


----------



## Zedcars

Zero&One said:


> If it's a future release, they'll still want it kept under wraps.


----------



## RogiervG

"Just finished trailer music " <--- trailer.. hmmmm sound like an albion or something.. since those are made for trailer type of music, while SSO SCO and BBCSO are more made for classical music or general purpose.

Unless he said trailer music, to trick us into thinking the wrong direction..


----------



## yiph2

I'm pretty sure trailer music means music for the trailer of the product, not literally trailer music


----------



## fretti

yiph2 said:


> But then why are people complaining about it's too big?


I think most aren't complaining about it being to big, but that too much of the space is unused


----------



## Noeticus

Zedcars said:


> It is possible to change the background colour if you know what you’re doing.



PEASE can you elaborate? Do you mean a Windows OS hack?


----------



## synkrotron

What have I missed?

Is the BBCSO being released as a LABS product?

Sorry if that has been asked already...


----------



## Zero&One

synkrotron said:


> What have I missed?
> 
> Is the BBCSO being released as a LABS product?
> 
> Sorry if that has been asked already...



Nothing, we are still mid guessing.
So far, BBCSO Labs, BBCSO is free, BBCSO update, BBCSO expansion, BBCSO Lite
And a Reverb and subscription service!

Oh and a charity single


----------



## synkrotron

I'll pop back in a couple of days then


----------



## korgscrew2000

synkrotron said:


> What have I missed?
> 
> Is the BBCSO being released as a LABS product?
> 
> Sorry if that has been asked already...


My money is on Symphonic Movements (possibly BBCSO)

You will see that it was spotted in Paul's Logic session then was quickly blurred out in the video.


----------



## John R Wilson

korgscrew2000 said:


> My money is on Symphonic Movements (possibly BBCSO)
> 
> You will see that it was spotted in Paul's Logic session then was quickly blurred out in the video.



I'm guessing a BBCSO update and an expansion, possibly with a really good update to their player as well.


----------



## Zedcars

Noeticus said:


> PEASE can you elaborate? Do you mean a Windows OS hack?


It’s possible on macOS. Not sure about Windows. Sorry.


----------



## Noeticus

Zedcars said:


> It’s possible on macOS. Not sure about Windows. Sorry.



Ah hah, so it was an OS hack. I say, good show.


----------



## SZK-Max

...multi-timbral player?


----------



## Go To 11

Not sure if anyone has flagged that it could just be the promised expansion of BBCSO. Like there was a bass flute listed or photographed that wasn’t in the initial release. And they did say ‘this is just the beginning.’ So we know there are more instruments coming. I imagine if BBCSO as we know it was just part 1, there is now part 2 coming? The question I have is - does the price go up?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Go To 11 said:


> Not sure if anyone has flagged that it could just be the promised expansion of BBCSO. Like there was a bass flute listed or photographed that wasn’t in the initial release. And they did say ‘this is just the beginning.’ So we know there are more instruments coming. I imagine if BBCSO as we know it was just part 1, there is now part 2 coming? The question I have is - does the price go up?


Someone from support was pretty explicit a while back that apart from the flute and piano (and whatever else I’ve forgotten) the BBCSO was pretty much complete.

Whatever happens on Thursday, I’d say it’s a safe bet that existing users will get those final instruments.


----------



## Go To 11

Alex Fraser said:


> Someone from support was pretty explicit a while back that apart from the flute and piano (and whatever else I’ve forgotten) the BBCSO was pretty much complete.
> 
> Whatever happens on Thursday, I’d say it’s a safe bet that existing users will get those final instruments.


Thanks for letting me know!


----------



## Zedcars

Noeticus said:


> Ah hah, so it was an OS hack. I say, good show.


Just had a look and it seems it may be possible on Windows too.


----------



## Noeticus

Zedcars said:


> Just had a look and it seems it may be possible on Windows too.



Can you provide a link, or expand on this?


----------



## Zedcars

Noeticus said:


> Can you provide a link, or expand on this?


Not really. It's all in my head. I'll PM you.


----------



## vdk-john

"with great power hype comes great responsibility disappointment"


----------



## Zedcars

Roll up, roll up. Get your guesses in before the big day. Place your bets please...

Will it be some comfy new Spitfire slippers?
Or an I Love Christian coaster?
Or maybe a matching set of his and hers embroidered SA cushions?
Or perhaps an ‘I’m very excited today’ mug featuring Paul’s...er...mug?

The mood is at fever pitch here at VI-C and the excitement can only get more intense as we inch ever closer to the big reveal.


----------



## MauroPantin

I understand the marketing hype can put a lot of people off, but this is all marvelous. It is a fantastic era we live in.

Every time I read that people paid like 4k+ for EWQLSO when it originally came out I count my blessings. We have incredible tools available at a much more affordable price. If you factor the cost of living it is even crazier.

So yeah, every time a developer is coming up with a new tool I'm happy. I actually woke up earlier today to check on this. Not all of the sample libraries are going to be for me and that's fine, too. But every time there's an announcement it's like Christmas. Painters don't get fantastically produced, never before seen colors released every few weeks from a myriad of companies competing for their attention. Lighten up!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Zedcars said:


> Roll up, roll up. Get your guesses in before the big day. Place your bets please...
> 
> Will it be some comfy new Spitfire slippers?
> Or an I Love Christian coaster?
> Or maybe a matching set of his and hers embroidered SA cushions?
> Or perhaps an ‘I’m very excited today’ mug featuring Paul’s...er...mug?
> 
> The mood is at fever pitch here at VI-C and the excitement can only get more intense as we inch ever closer to the big reveal.


----------



## mybadmemory

2000 string players with specially built felt bows in a reverberant hangar captured with a premium selection of 2000 vintage mics at 2000 feet distance? barely audible. :D


----------



## korgscrew2000

mybadmemory said:


> 2000 string players with specially built felt bows in a reverberant hangar captured with a premium selection of 2000 vintage mics at 2000 feet distance? barely audible. :D



And you'll buy it. You know you will.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Spitfire slippers actually sound quite good. Considering most of us are probably wearing them right now in our home studios. Sold.

Presumably they'll be one more teaser today for us to argue over and to amuse whoever from Spitfire is reading this thread.


----------



## N.Caffrey

He’s excited!! Means it’s going to be a good one


----------



## Alex Fraser

N.Caffrey said:


> He’s excited!! Means it’s going to be a good one


I've cracked it guys. That orchestra pictogram featured in the marketing and gui is the tread pattern on the sole of the incoming Spitfire Slippers. Can't believe it was staring us in the face this entire time.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Spitfire slippers actually sound quite good. Considering most of us are probably wearing them right now in our home studios. Sold.
> 
> Presumably they'll be one more teaser today for us to argue over and to amuse whoever from Spitfire is reading this thread.


I don’t wear slippers. But if I did, they’d definitely be Spitfire ones.


----------



## mobiuscog

Positional audio within the player or perhaps allowing the levels of different sections to be adjusted (and automated) globally across all plugin instances.


----------



## platixzhang

Wait with excitement


----------



## vdk-john

MauroPantin said:


> I understand the marketing hype can put a lot of people off, but this is all marvelous. It is a fantastic era we live in.



I agree but would say that's true regardless of how marketing is done  This for me is just an hobby and I do understand that a company would want to promote a product before release at least to make sure some users do wait for the announcement before buying a similar product either from them or someone else.

at the same time I feel that everyone that is interested in vst instruments and sample libraries will look with much interested any new release even without a big push on marketing. This because the audience is pretty specific. (At least this is my key assumption, if that's not the case then I'm wrong)

But basically I do understand hyping the release of a new laptop or smartphone or videogame better because that's aimed to a much wider audience.

anyway just my 2c, I'm sure spitfire has enough data to make an informed decision on what works better for them


----------



## yiph2

Maybe this time it is actually big...


----------



## redlester

I've just realised what it puts me in mind of.. Peter Saville's colour chart as used for Blue Monday, etc.

If it's a tie-in between Spitfire and New Order I think my head will explode.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

30 pages.. I hate you all more than myself!!


----------



## yiph2

At least less than the 45 pages I guessed


----------



## korgscrew2000

yiph2 said:


> Maybe this time it is actually big...




Does Christian live in Edinburgh?


----------



## yiph2

Yea, but works in London


----------



## korgscrew2000

yiph2 said:


> Yea, but works in London



Kind of a big Commute!


----------



## GtrString

The big change might be their reluctance to offer composer cloud services.. maybe now they take the (quantum) leap...?


----------



## gussunkri

New guess: some kind of warplane.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Spitfire slippers actually sound quite good. Considering most of us are probably wearing them right now in our home studios. Sold.
> 
> Presumably they'll be one more teaser today for us to argue over and to amuse whoever from Spitfire is reading this thread.


Enjoy...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Enjoy...
> 
> View attachment 30161


Slip-ons too! Slipper pros know that the backs of "normal" ones get squashed with repeated use, so good design there, Darren!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Roll up, roll up. Get your guesses in before the big day. Place your bets please...


Still sticking to my original guess. CH mentioned in the video it's two things, so (1) New features/update for existing BBCSO and (2) A new lower tier version of the BBCSO library AKA "The White One".

Oh, and the bass flute and piano will finally drop. That's my flag in the sand.


----------



## wolb1

Alex Fraser said:


> Still sticking to my original guess. CH mentioned in the video it's two things, so (1) New features/update for existing BBCSO and (2) A new lower tier version of the BBCSO library AKA "The White One".
> 
> Oh, and the bass flute and piano will finally drop. That's my flag in the sand.



They seem to be shifting towards the “prosumer” market with lower priced stripped down versions. I agree probably a basic version of BBCSO maybe with some auto-arranging features.


----------



## Pando

I guess "Symphonic Motions" is it. Whatever that is. Website is down for maintenance 
(credit to *PaulBrimstone)*


----------



## yiph2

Alex Fraser said:


> Still sticking to my original guess. CH mentioned in the video it's two things, so (1) New features/update for existing BBCSO and (2) A new lower tier version of the BBCSO library AKA "The White One".
> 
> Oh, and the bass flute and piano will finally drop. That's my flag in the sand.


Wait what? Never heard him say that... Timestamp?


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> Wait what? Never heard him say that... Timestamp?


From 11 mins.


----------



## RogiervG

yiph2 said:


> Wait what? Never heard him say that... Timestamp?



No it was oscar the dog.. that woofed it


----------



## Zero&One

Dunno, when he said "Me and Paul are unlikely to surpass this, as a thing, in our processional careers"

He hinted at the sky colours moving between each other at the beginning (motions). I think that's the project. Possibly like a bigger version of Aperture


----------



## RogiervG

i surely hope it won't be a aperture thing at all.. neither a superduper albion... or evo etc..
i hope it's a better sampled library than all previous orchestra libs, like sco sso, bbcso.
Withc actual good legato's (the motion part so to speak), and proper balance of audio levels, etc etc etc..


----------



## yiph2

Alex Fraser said:


> From 11 mins.


He didn't say anything about BBCSO?


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> He didn't say anything about BBCSO?


No, just a best guess and attempt at joining all the clues together. That, and designing the perfect pair of slippers are welcome distractions from this afternoons work.


----------



## RogiervG

"there are* two bits*, because there are* two things* that are *coming out*" ->11:11 into the video.

a hidden hint?
my bet, because the website is in *essential* maintenance for at least 1 hour already.

1) subscriptions are provided for those who want it (besides perpetual licensing).
2) another orchestral library, bigger than BBCSO, with a neat modern interface based on their player.

3) something else.. 

Update: site is back online... but still they could have activated the subscription part meanwhile.


----------



## GingerMaestro

Must be quite a big event if they have to close down the website..I'm going with the a la carte buying option..They are trying to get their place in the market before Orchestral tools gets around to it..Spitfire have always said they won't do a subscription service..bout who knows..


----------



## yiph2

What? Seems like website is working for me


----------



## RogiervG

yiph2 said:


> What? Seems like website is working for me


Yes, it's back... but was down for more than an hour or so..


----------



## yiph2

Oh, never mind then


----------



## GingerMaestro

Oh..It was down for maintenance for a while, looks like it just came back online..I wonder what time this will hit...I'm in America...hopefully when we get up we will know...


----------



## Alex Fraser

Yeah, the site is back up. But before the maintenance page was put up, the SF web server was throwing errors. So it could have easily been a quick repair job, nothing more exciting.

I know this 'cause at the time, I was using the SF website as a colour guide for another site..


----------



## muk

As for slippers, nothing beats these:









Freudian Slippers


Check out our Freudian Slippers and shop now for hundreds of more cool gifts by The Unemployed Philosophers Guild!




philosophersguild.com


----------



## EasterIslandStatue




----------



## gst98

That makes me think it's got to be a free full orchestra


----------



## vdk-john

Universal starting point. They're trolling 🤣


----------



## Fry777

My bet is on a lite, entry level and inexpensive version of either BBCSO or the SSO

@gst98 I would have said 499 but free is even harder to beat


----------



## RogiervG

vdk-john said:


> Universal starting point. They're trolling 🤣


like they did with BBCSO? 

No i think this will be the INTENDED BBCSO (or PRO if you will), bug free, some resampled instruments (e.g. horns), more articulations, deeper sampled velocity layers for maximum dynamics and more new instruments...


----------



## KallumS

What if they've got short memories and they're accidentally releasing BBCSO again?


----------



## LamaRose

Still believe there will be multi-level announcements/releases including a new business model/and or new business altogether. Would be cool if they started their own production/catalog company... real composers running the show.


----------



## axb312

Looks like it's definitely subscriptions...


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

Christian said in an earlier teaser trailer that there will be 2 big announcements.

My bet is one is aimed at the beginner/entry level, and the second being an enhancement of the existing BBCSO (ie with flute + piano, other fixes etc)


----------



## Fry777

LamaRose said:


> Still believe there will be multi-level announcements/releases including a new business model/and or new business altogether. Would be cool if they started their own production/catalog company... real composers running the show.



Thought about that too, the Spitfire production music library. Paying you royalties and then taking your cash back when they release new libs. Genius.


----------



## vdk-john

Introducing...

Spitfire Tuning Fork


----------



## yiph2

Universal starting point again?


----------



## Alex Fraser

The OG BBCSO is “A Universal Starting Point”. FWIW.


----------



## dzilizzi

I'm thinking it can't be subscription until they have everything on their player. Dealing with subscriptions and NI would be a huge PIA. 

After everything is on their player? Subscription maybe happening...


----------



## Technostica

Fry777 said:


> Thought about that too, the Spitfire production music library. Paying you royalties and then taking your cash back when they release new libs. Genius.


Yeah, so you work for them and pay them at the same time.
No wonder he said they won't top this in their life time which is a very bold statement to make.


----------



## yiph2

Alex Fraser said:


> The OG BBCSO is “A Universal Starting Point”. FWIW.


Then there will be a "2nd Starting Point"


----------



## Zero&One

yiph2 said:


> Then there will be a "2nd Starting Point"



This is, THE Universal starting point.
The one we bought was just 'a' Universal Starting Point

2021 will see - The Definitive Starting Point


----------



## yiph2

Zero&One said:


> This is, THE Universal starting point.
> The one we bought was just 'a' Universal Starting Point
> 
> 2021 will see - The Definitive Starting Point


2022 will be "The Ultimate Starting Point"


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Albion TWO - free for all owner of Albion ONE 🥳

Well...its allowed to dream right? 😀


----------



## RogiervG

I think.. that they have converted the SSO and SCO to their own player, hence the new colorish elements shown. And that way there is no more royalties to be payed to Native Instruments for the signed libaries for kontakt, leading to being able to lower pricing significantly on both bundles.
And on top: bbcso will be lowered aswell <-becoming The REAL universal starting point, because more people can afford it.

SSO complete (new release on their own player): 1000Bucks, instead of 1600bucks
SCO complete (new release on their own player): 1000Bucks, instead of 1400-ish bucks but with chamber strings pro)

BBCSO with bugfixes and promised new instruments: 500-ish bucks.

It's something big, huge etc... they are doing.. as CH mentioned over and over again...

well... the Mentioned things above are big things.. an income model change, and product changes...  two bits.. so to speak... two videos.. it matches up with what CH mentioned.... or not... haha


----------



## SZK-Max

BBCSO
"A" UNIVERSAL STARTING POINT

NEW PRODUCTION
"THE" UNIVERSAL STARTING POINT

This is a big difference that cannot be ignored...


----------



## KallumS

Zero&One said:


> This is, THE Universal starting point.
> The one we bought was just 'a' Universal Starting Point
> 
> 2021 will see - The Definitive Starting Point





yiph2 said:


> 2022 will be "The Ultimate Starting Point"



2023 - The Starting Point Game Of The Year Edition

2024 - The Starting Point Deluxe Edition


----------



## Zero&One

2025 - The Starting Point - Platinum Collection


----------



## Noeticus

4.5 billion years from now, when the Sun runs out of fuel, will be "The Universal Ending Point", which is a quite a rather nice sounding sample library.


----------



## MaxOctane

Noeticus said:


> 4.5 billion years from now, when the Sun runs out of fuel, will be "The Universal Ending Point", which is a quite a rather nice sounding sample library.



Ooooh... Spitfire Audio presents: "_The Last Question_"

If you have 20 minutes, this is an awesome and mind-blowing short story by Isaac Asimov:





The Last Question -- Isaac Asimov


Isaac Asimov's Last Question



www.multivax.com


----------



## KallumS

Zero&One said:


> 2025 - The Starting Point - Platinum Collection



2026 - Best Of: The Starting Point


----------



## Zedcars

KallumS said:


> 2026 - Best Of: The Starting Point


2027 - What's the Point? Grumpy Old Git Collection


----------



## KallumS

Zedcars said:


> 2027 - What's the Point? Grumpy Old Git Collection



2028: Spitfire Originals - Pointy Orchestra


----------



## gtrwll

KallumS said:


> 2026 - Best Of: The Starting Point



And then we get the remakes.


----------



## Roger Bremen

"This time we've recorded in a location so cold, the players literally could not move their limbs. The results were nothing short of breath-taking, or they would have been if anyone could have inhaled."


----------



## korgscrew2000

None of these sound like death bed projects though. I could be wrong. 

A death bed project is somthing you wish you had done on just before death but regret not doing it. 

Maybe BBCSO bug fixes could fall into that category. 😂


----------



## Michel Simons

I am so excited I just soiled my pants.

2029: The Brownie Point


----------



## jbuhler

RogiervG said:


> I think.. that they have converted the SSO and SCO to their own player, hence the new colorish elements shown. And that way there is no more royalties to be payed to Native Instruments for the signed libaries for kontakt, leading to being able to lower pricing significantly on both bundles.
> And on top: bbcso will be lowered aswell <-becoming The REAL universal starting point, because more people can afford it.
> 
> SSO complete (new release on their own player): 1000Bucks, instead of 1600bucks
> SCO complete (new release on their own player): 1000Bucks, instead of 1400-ish bucks but with chamber strings pro)
> 
> BBCSO with bugfixes and promised new instruments: 500-ish bucks.
> 
> It's something big, huge etc... they are doing.. as CH mentioned over and over again...
> 
> well... the Mentioned things above are big things.. an income model change, and product changes...  two bits.. so to speak... two videos.. it matches up with what CH mentioned.... or not... haha


NI fees aren't that expensive and moving SSO or SCS to the new player wouldn't in itself reduce the price significantly for either library as a whole. What they can do that would be prohibitively expensive with Kontakt is modularize (or in the case of SSO and SCS remodularize) their libraries like OT is doing. 



korgscrew2000 said:


> None of these sound like death bed projects though. I could be wrong.


A version of BBCSO that is free or at very low cost would qualify. So if they came out with a low cost, one mic version as the new "universal" and a version with more dynamic layers (which I still suspect were recorded but not yet incorporated into the library) and various supplements and fixes, that would answer the bill.


----------



## ism

I wonder if some thing like an extremely affordable educational license (for perhaps a light version) might count as this transformative. 

It would fit with the BBC ethos of public service and education. And seriously, when I was in school, the ability to compose music on even a very cut down version if BBCSO (say, with only 14 or 15 mics) really would have been transformative.


----------



## Alex Fraser

ism said:


> I wonder if some thing like an extremely affordable educational license (for perhaps a light version) might count as this transformative.
> 
> It would fit with the BBC ethos of public service and education. And seriously, when I was in school, the ability to compose music on even a very cut down version if BBCSO (say, with only 14 or 15 mics) really would have been transformative.


I think that’s where it’s heading.


----------



## SupremeFist

2030: Now That's What I Call Starting Points, vol. 1


----------



## Zedcars

ism said:


> I wonder if some thing like an extremely affordable educational license (for perhaps a light version) might count as this transformative.
> 
> It would fit with the BBC ethos of public service and education. And seriously, when I was in school, the ability to compose music on even a very cut down version if BBCSO (say, with only 14 or 15 mics) really would have been transformative.


BBCSO Discovery. The name even fits.


----------



## RogiervG

Zedcars said:


> BBCSO Discovery. The name even fits.


it would defeat the universal starting point BBCSO product as a whole.
Two versions is anti universal....


----------



## al_net77

13,82 billions years ago: The Universal Starting Point - Big Bang.


----------



## AdamKmusic

Maybe a repackaged Chamber Strings & Symphony Strings in one big library, Spitfire Hall Strings


----------



## Alex Fraser

RogiervG said:


> it would defeat the universal starting point BBCSO product as a whole.
> Two versions is anti universal....


If the only difference was the amount of mics, it could work. 🤔


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Look around at the way everything in the world is right now, in all its darkness and light. 

Remember this moment in time, my friends. Take it all in. 

Because in a few hours it's all going to change.


----------



## Gauss

My friends... It just keeps happening!


----------



## RogiervG

Alex Fraser said:


> If the only difference was the amount of mics, it could work. 🤔


Makes the sound scaping abilities different between the versions. leads to big confusion for potential customers and disappointments and such..

Besides that.. a lite version isn't something BIG.. it's a small effort on their parts... CH is thrilled about what they have done, and never thought of every being able to do.. so much it was a deathbed type of project almost..


----------



## ism

Here's what I predict. No matter how my anyone whinging about spitfire marketing is going to love or hate whatever comes out tomorrow, the world will be a better places. 

Do I have any interesting in JXL brass? Well, ffff trombones have zero relevance to my life. 

Is the work in which there is JXL brass better that a world without JXL brass? Of course it is. 

Can't wait to see what next. And then what next after that. And the library after that.


----------



## vdk-john

jbuhler said:


> A version of BBCSO that is free or at very low cost would qualify. So if they came out with a low cost, one mic version as the new "universal" and a version with more dynamic layers (which I still suspect were recorded but not yet incorporated into the library) and various supplements and fixes, that would answer the bill.



- BBC SO lite version
- universal starting point
- one single, exclusive, microphone position*
- no regrets




* bottled mic


----------



## David Kudell

ism said:


> Do I have any interesting in JXL brass? Well, ffff trombones have zero relevance to my life.



What makes JXL brass special isn't the ffff trombones, it's the 4 more layers of dynamic range below that. It's why it took over 40 days just to record it.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> Do I have any interesting in JXL brass? Well, ffff trombones have zero relevance to my life.


But the soft JXL solo trombone is very good as well. (I only have the solo trombone, and so far I'm very much liking it, though I end up turning off the top two dynamic layers almost all the time.)


----------



## ism

jbuhler said:


> But the soft JXL solo trombone is very good as well. (I only have the solo trombone, and so far I'm very much liking it, though I end up turning off the top two dynamic layers almost all the time.)



So the world with JXL turns out to be even better that a world without JXL than I would have thought. I rest my case.


----------



## Fleer

BBCSO Expanded (vastly)
Same price
Alpha and
Omega


----------



## RogiervG

vdk-john said:


> - BBC SO lite version
> - universal starting point
> - one single, exclusive, microphone position*
> - no regrets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * bottled mic


Again defeats the purpose of THE universal starting point.. which is BBCSO itself.
Two versions would lead to confusion and disappointments.. also it's not the/a universal starting point anymore.. because there are then two points.. in other words: not so universal anymore.

Secondly.. It is suppose to be a BIG thing, so big CH thought they wouldn't be able to pull this one off at all... so massive, huge this thing is...
a sort of deathbed project if you will.. (he actually said deathbeath here or in a video on youtube)


----------



## Zedcars

There's two things apparently, so it could still be the lite version and the other bigger thing they are on about.


----------



## RogiervG

yes.. or it's a play of words.. meaning one thing, split in two videos.. e.g. CH doing the vision behind it, the making of etc.... and pricepoint.. PT doing the walkthrough and showcasing the demos made.
two videos are two things, technically


----------



## jbuhler

RogiervG said:


> Again defeats the purpose of THE universal starting point.. which is BBCSO itself.
> Two versions would lead to confusion and disappointments.. also it's not the/a universal starting point anymore.. because there are then two points.. in other words: not so universal anymore.
> 
> Secondly.. It is suppose to be a BIG thing, so big CH thought they wouldn't be able to pull this one off at all... so massive, huge this thing is...
> a sort of deathbed project if you will.. (he actually said deathbeath here or in a video on youtube)


Unless the "universal" starting point is being redefined as the one mic version (say, one of Jake Jackson stereo mixes), and then all the other versions, including the current BBCSO, become expansions of that. That would mean taking away the existing BBCSO's place and turning it more into one standard implementation of that "universal." The "huge" thing would be the great expansion of access, the sense that BBCSO Universal was ubiquitous because there was no large financial barrier to gaining access to it. If it was universal in the sense that it was free or inexpensive enough that everyone had it, that might indeed be transformative.


----------



## Zedcars

I hear Tom Cruise is in talks with Elon Musk to shoot a movie in space. Do you think Spitfire might be about to release the first sample library made in space... 🤔


----------



## prodigalson

I would put serious money on a free LABS version of BBCSO. Obviously seriously cut down, no legatos, 1 mix mic, minimal articulations.

A full free sampled version of the BBCSO would be a "deathbed opportunity" at least as far as Christian and Paul think.


----------



## reutunes

prodigalson said:


> I would put serious money on a free LABS version of BBCSO. Obviously seriously cut down, no legatos, 1 mix mic, minimal articulations.
> 
> A full free sampled version of the BBCSO would be a "deathbed opportunity" at least as far as Christian and Paul think.


I would also put money on that, although not necessarily BBCSO - might be older symphonic samples rejigged into the Spitfire player. But almost definately free with some sort of upgrade path.


----------



## RogiervG

knowing SF... i bet tomorrow we will all come to the conclusion its not as HUGE as CH like us to believe it is.... quite disappointing even... and yet another seen that, done that library or libraries.

*i made this negative comment in hopes to be reality possitively suprised with something good (or multiple)... that is actually for once really good in all ways thinkable: price, quality, possibilities. *pray pray*... CH and PT.. please make it soooooooooooooooooo please please... on my knees begging...... *


----------



## lgmcben

I'm going to bed saying goodbye to the old world as nothing will ever be the same tomorrow.


----------



## Zedcars

The trouble with drip fed marketing hype is that it leads to rampant speculation which in turn builds multiple levels of expectations very few if any of which are remotely going to be fulfilled even if SA developed the ultimate AI that could generate emotionally rich and realistic orchestral performances by interfacing directly with the composer's mind.


----------



## RogiervG

true....


but it's fun nevertheless to speculate, let the creative brain work in a brainstorm matter.... read what people come up with, the reasons... and how others react to those.. it's like being at a pub (remember that thing? a pub)

Just keep the "it might/will disappoint" expectation alive.


----------



## Mike Fox




----------



## Reid Rosefelt

lgmcben said:


> I'm going to bed saying goodbye to the old world as nothing will ever be the same tomorrow.


You can sleep?


----------



## Zedcars

Just for fun...I'm sure you've all wondered what Also Sprach Zarathustra sounds like on a quadcopter drone...


----------



## synkrotron

are we there yet?


----------



## Pando

Zedcars said:


> Just for fun...I'm sure you've all wondered what Also Sprach Zarathustra sounds like on a quadcopter drone...



Recorded in Air studios?


----------



## 667

prodigalson said:


> I would put serious money on a free LABS version of BBCSO. Obviously seriously cut down, no legatos, 1 mix mic, minimal articulations.
> 
> A full free sampled version of the BBCSO would be a "deathbed opportunity" at least as far as Christian and Paul think.


I actually thought BBCSO was going to be free, all the way up through the launch video/cast, they talked about it being starting point for composers, build a community, etc., and CH had talked a lot about how community-building on his channel, via free LABS isntruments, now pianobook, etc., and directly referenced "free" being important for this, so anyone could create regardless of means. So I was very surprised at the price of BBCSO. It's a great price for what it offers but I really thought it would be free, subsidized by BBC (they're public funded aren't they?)

I hope they do something with this. I don't even need BBCSO, I have so many orc samples now. But as far as community-building this is the thing that needs to happen. Full set, tree mics only maybe?


----------



## synkrotron

Well, if it ain't free then I ain't bothering with this "bestest thing eva" cos I've just splashed me 2020 budget on a new Eurorack module, a Disting EX, which, as it happens, comes loaded with some LABS stuff.

All @christianhenson 's fault and his damn Modular Monday blog...


----------



## Go To 11

RogiervG said:


> I think.. that they have converted the SSO and SCO to their own player, hence the new colorish elements shown. And that way there is no more royalties to be payed to Native Instruments for the signed libaries for kontakt, leading to being able to lower pricing significantly on both bundles.
> And on top: bbcso will be lowered aswell <-becoming The REAL universal starting point, because more people can afford it.
> 
> SSO complete (new release on their own player): 1000Bucks, instead of 1600bucks
> SCO complete (new release on their own player): 1000Bucks, instead of 1400-ish bucks but with chamber strings pro)
> 
> BBCSO with bugfixes and promised new instruments: 500-ish bucks.
> 
> It's something big, huge etc... they are doing.. as CH mentioned over and over again...
> 
> well... the Mentioned things above are big things.. an income model change, and product changes...  two bits.. so to speak... two videos.. it matches up with what CH mentioned.... or not... haha


Reducing the price of BBCSO would have to involve some kind of reduction in what you get, right? I can only think of either ensembles vs individual sections, or a single mix mic version the '22 signals' on offer right now.


----------



## Go To 11

ism said:


> I wonder if some thing like an extremely affordable educational license (for perhaps a light version) might count as this transformative.
> 
> It would fit with the BBC ethos of public service and education. And seriously, when I was in school, the ability to compose music on even a very cut down version if BBCSO (say, with only 14 or 15 mics) really would have been transformative.


I'm loving the idea of you at school, needing 14 or 15 mics.


----------



## Go To 11

667 said:


> I actually thought BBCSO was going to be free, all the way up through the launch video/cast, they talked about it being starting point for composers, build a community, etc., and CH had talked a lot about how community-building on his channel, via free LABS isntruments, now pianobook, etc., and directly referenced "free" being important for this, so anyone could create regardless of means. So I was very surprised at the price of BBCSO. It's a great price for what it offers but I really thought it would be free, subsidized by BBC (they're public funded aren't they?)
> 
> I hope they do something with this. I don't even need BBCSO, I have so many orc samples now. But as far as community-building this is the thing that needs to happen. Full set, tree mics only maybe?


Apparently with budget cuts, the BBC were hoping this project would help finance THEM! So quite the opposite to them offering their name, players, and room for free. They wanted to make money from it. This is according to CH's blog at some point.


----------



## MarcelM

whatever it is. if spitfire is smart they start the show tomorrow with a big "N" fading in


----------



## José Herring

David Kudell said:


> What makes JXL brass special isn't the ffff trombones, it's the 4 more layers of dynamic range below that. It's why it took over 40 days just to record it.


Agreed. I have the Tbones and I think the ffff layers are the worst part of the patch. It has some SWEET tones f and below.


----------



## tomosane

In his latest video CH is touting the upcoming announcement as a pivotal moment in both his and PT's careers. In other words, I think it's fair to say that either

A) It's not gonna be a repackaged, cut-down or slightly updated version of any existing product

or

B) You should never ever give any attention to Spitfire hype again


----------



## José Herring

tomosane said:


> In his latest video CH is touting the upcoming announcement as a pivotal moment in both his and PT's careers. In other words, I think it's fair to say that either
> 
> A) It's not gonna be a repackaged, cut-down or slightly updated version of any existing product
> 
> or
> 
> B) You should never ever give any attention to Spitfire hype again


I wonder if he means careers as sample devs or careers as composers?


----------



## Jon W

I am sticking with my initial prediction. A larger, more mahooooosive GUI for all existing and future Kontakt libraries.


----------



## RonOrchComp

This might have been guessed already, but...



tomosane said:


> In his latest video CH is touting the upcoming announcement as a pivotal moment in both his and PT's careers.




To me, this means, they are selling the biz to either Apple, or HBO (hence the competition), but will remain on as devs/staff composers.

We shall see...


----------



## nickaloo

I agree with the jumping ship from Kontakt as a change in the game, not sure altogether great as I don't like their interface much what with having to click to access ADSR etc parameters while wasting huge space on the wheel thing, anyhoo...

But I was thinking the other day about subscription and concluded they really don't have enough content, but if they were to do a plugin alliance style thing with other boutique (soi-disant) and independent purveyors of fine sample libraries such as Sonic Couture, and some composition-oriented fx such as Krotos, it just might work.


----------



## nickaloo

RonOrchComp said:


> To me, this means, they are selling the biz to either Apple, or HBO (hence the competition), but will remain on as devs/staff composers.



Every girl's dream


----------



## RogiervG

RonOrchComp said:


> This might have been guessed already, but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me, this means, they are selling the biz to either Apple, or HBO (hence the competition), but will remain on as devs/staff composers.
> 
> We shall see...



Selling to apple means big lost of customers.. because apple makes all bought things only apple
compatible. No windows support anymore... thus the huge amount of windows using composers, will stop being able to use future products and likely updates on products. A trust in a brand is broken.
Nope i don't think CH and PT are stupid..

HBO makes no sense being an entertainment company, that doesn't sell software at all or has musical knowhow like sample dev's do.. (movies and tv series is all they do) they are in a completely different market.


----------



## ism

RogiervG said:


> Selling to apple means big lost of customers.. because apple makes all bought things only apple
> compatible. No windows support anymore... thus the huge amount of windows using composers, will stop being able to use future products and likely updates on products.
> nope i don't think CH and PT are stupid..
> 
> HBO makes no sense being an entertainment company, that doesn't sell software at all. (movies and tv series is all they do) they are in a completely different market.


A less radical version might be apple purchasing a minority stake in SF and licensing a BBCSO light as standard library for garage band and/or Logic.

There was a time in which that would have ensure that I’d go with mac + ipad over any alternatives.

And logic standard library ... starting to look a bit old (not that I’ve ever even looked at what’s in it). But apple does like to keep things shiny.


----------



## Alex Fraser

tomosane said:


> In his latest video CH is touting the upcoming announcement as a pivotal moment in both his and PT's careers. In other words, I think it's fair to say that either
> 
> A) It's not gonna be a repackaged, cut-down or slightly updated version of any existing product
> 
> or
> 
> B) You should never ever give any attention to Spitfire hype again


That's one perspective.

I think CH isn't talking about an all powerful new release, but an opportunity for Spitfire to target a wider market with a cheaper product - and possibly the education sector. That's where the company future lies, not 2K monster libraries. Maybe there's a new relationship or project with the BBC.

Also worth remembering that this community's idea of a revolutionary product is slightly out of whack with the wider market. A complete Spitfire orchestra at around the £450 mark, for example, will sell in huge numbers.

Whatever, we'll know by this time tomorrow and we can move on to arguing about the GUI!


----------



## RonOrchComp

Yeah - a new library doesn't fit in with _It's all about to change. _Nor does anything having to do with their player; the player is already in use, so even if more libraries are moved over, that too doesn't fit in with_ It's all about to change. _New libraries and player stuff is not_ change._

So, it's either a subscription, or a sale of the company, in whole or part.


----------



## Zedcars

They have consistently been dead against a subscription to the point that’s it’s become a running joke to even suggest it. Can’t see that changing all of a sudden.


----------



## mybadmemory

Clue 1: ” Beyond a new standard for orchestral sample libraries lies a blueprint for an ongoing collaboration with the BBC that will provide resources – online and live – for a community of musicians ready to produce the orchestral music and blockbuster scores of the future. BBC Symphony Orchestra is just the beginning...”

Clue 2: A very similar orchestral layout image is already in use on their website if you browse products by instrument, representing Full Orchestra.


----------



## RonOrchComp

Zedcars said:


> Can’t see that changing all of a sudden.



Me neither, really, but outside of a sale, that's the only other thing that is_ real change._


----------



## Alex Fraser

RonOrchComp said:


> Yeah - a new library doesn't fit in with _It's all about to change. _Nor does anything having to do with their player; the player is already in use, so even if more libraries are moved over, that too doesn't fit in with_ It's all about to change. _New libraries and player stuff is not_ change._
> 
> So, it's either a subscription, or a sale of the company, in whole or part.


It’s not a subscription.
And if it was a sale to another company or another corporate thing..why hype it to us?

The idea that Spitfire is putting sounds into GarageBand or something.. that’s pretty interesting.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Chairs?


----------



## RogiervG

RonOrchComp said:


> So, it's either a subscription, or a sale of the company, in whole or part.



subscription, yes i know they said no for years.. but since he also mentioned, he and paul where doing a huge thing never thinking they would pull off or do at all. A deathbed project thingy..
it could be just that.

....or a-la carte methods like Ochestral tools is creating, could be ONE of the HUGE things.. (he said in a video there are two videos, one by him and one by Paul, because it's two things going on)

And a second thing: the phrase "this is london calling" in the teaser and again the universal starting point slogan... points to either a new BBCSO edition (replacing the current one), which will be massive with many more instruments, proper articulations and scripting and all the flaws in BBCSO erased.

Or a new famous orchestra sampled, in their own known venue, but done better than BBCSO did.
And as bonus directed/co produced by a very very very famous composer/conductor/producer that is very hard to get him/her to reach for these things. (e.g. williams and the likes)
Providing the famous sound we all know.


combining that.. is indeed a big step for them. financially as wel as product.

But i stand with my previous mentioned:
moving SSO and SCO to the new player, removing kontakt in the picture, resulting in a lower pricepoint (e.g. 1000Bucks instead of 1600)
and BBCSO being replaced by a new version, hugely improved and bigger, for an even lower price: 500-ish bucks.

that are two (for them) big things, again financially and technically.


----------



## Stringtree

Spitfire collaborations have been interesting. From Jason Bonham to the BBC. John Williams would be a singularly awesome collaboration for them to land.

But I think "deathbed" is not a graceful characterization of a shared effort with a living person, so I don't think it's something like this. 

Would I buy a John Williams orchestra? Heck, yes! Press a key, and E.T. could slap my face all day.

Greg


----------



## jbuhler

josejherring said:


> Agreed. I have the Tbones and I think the ffff layers are the worst part of the patch. It has some SWEET tones f and below.


Yes, and the solo trombone sounds great on the lower dynamic layers too. (I also don't mind the top layer, it's just that I don't have much use for it.) But also, I find five dynamic layers is hard to work with a 128 point scale on a CC controller. There's often just not enough resolution. What I really appreciate about OT's approach though is the ability to dial into any patch just the layers I want.


----------



## korgscrew2000

To be fair, I hope there is a sale because I want all the Olafur! 😂


----------



## Robert_G

Funny everytime these announcements from Spitfire happen, Im noticing more and more people are starting to see how rediculous it is the way they bait us.

Good that more and more people are seeing it for what it is.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Robert_G said:


> Funny everytime these announcements from Spitfire happen, Im noticing more and more people are starting to see how rediculous it is the way they bait us.
> 
> Good that more and more people are seeing it for what it is.


To be fair, I think most see it as bait but just go along for the ride anyway. It’s only marketing and we’re all grown ups.


----------



## MauroPantin

The plot thickens


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

RonOrchComp said:


> This might have been guessed already, but...
> 
> To me, this means, they are selling the biz to either Apple, or HBO (hence the competition), but will remain on as devs/staff composers.
> 
> We shall see...



Unlikely. As any Jon Oliver fan knows, HBO is owned by AT&T now.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> To be fair, I think most see it as bait but just go along for the ride anyway. It’s only marketing and we’re all grown ups.


I’m not.


----------



## jbuhler

Robert_G said:


> Funny everytime these announcements from Spitfire happen, Im noticing more and more people are starting to see how rediculous it is the way they bait us.
> 
> Good that more and more people are seeing it for what it is.


If anything, their marketing is generating more forum posts than ever. And, yes, Christian will still call every other library from SF "a game changer." And Paul will still be excited by it. And the thing is, I don't think either of them is being cynical in the least or really even putting their marketing hat on when they say these kinds of things. I think they really do love their products.


----------



## Zedcars

MauroPantin said:


> The plot thickens


Another crazy idea which might be connected (but probably not)...what about making BBCSO accessible regardless of your rig by allowing you to play it through a website?


----------



## Virtuoso

TigerTheFrog said:


> Chairs?


Maybe a collaboration with Simon Rattle?


----------



## D Halgren

jbuhler said:


> If anything, their marketing is generating more forum posts than ever. And, yes, Christian will still call every other library from SF "a game changer." And Paul will still be excited by it. And the thing is, I don't think either of them is being cynical in the least or really even putting their marketing hat on when they say these kinds of things. I think they really do love their products.


It certainly affords them an enviable life


----------



## Zedcars

I mean, everything streams these days right? Movies, music, even big title games. Well why not off-load the CPU and memory hit of sample playback onto servers in the cloud?

Ok, ignore me while I spout a load of drivel


----------



## Stringtree

Zedcars said:


> I mean, everything streams these days right? Movies, music, even big title games. Well why not off-load the CPU and memory hit of sample playback onto servers in the cloud?
> 
> Ok, ignore me while I spout a load of drivel




Nope, that's exactly what I just thought.


----------



## MauroPantin

Zedcars said:


> I mean, everything streams these days right? Movies, music, even big title games. Well why not off-load the CPU and memory hit of sample playback onto servers in the cloud?
> 
> Ok, ignore me while I spout a load of drivel



Conceptually that seems awesome! Like a long-distance VEP. Difficult to do with low latency, though.

I think at this point it's safe to say there's a plugin or sample library with their player and something on their website. Those seem to be the two things. Now, they are related I have no idea.


----------



## Alex Fraser

MauroPantin said:


> The plot thickens


If that’s related to tomorrow, they’re somewhat behind schedule!


----------



## MauroPantin

Lol! True, but if the dev cycles I've been marginally involved in my life are any indication I'd say they're actually right on time


----------



## Zedcars

A massive hurdle for young composers is being able to afford a decent rig. If they made the BBCSO library available in a cut down version playable through an app which allowed you to connect your keyboard up and start streaming the samples instead of downloading them then you have increased accessibility 10 fold. Suddenly even a child can start playing around with stuff that usually needs a complex setup to even get started.


----------



## Zedcars

MauroPantin said:


> Conceptually that seems awesome! Like a long-distance VEP. Difficult to do with low latency, though.
> 
> I think at this point it's safe to say there's a plugin or sample library with their player and something on their website. Those seem to be the two things. Now, they are related I have no idea.


Yes, latency is an issue but people are streaming 4K movies and high end games now aren’t they? It just needs a fast connection which a lot of households have now.


----------



## Stringtree

Zedcars said:


> A massive hurdle for young composers is being able to afford a decent rig. If they made the BBCSO library available in a cut down version playable through an app which allowed you to connect your keyboard up and start streaming the samples instead of downloading them then you have increased accessibility 10 fold. Suddenly even a child can start playing around with stuff that usually needs a complex setup to even get started.



I had to put together a decent rig. And have a love of symphonic music gained through a lot of listening. Am I just a mid-40s curmudgeon, or are we about to be flooded with the next generation of ACID loops?

I can't wait. The popcorn is popping.


----------



## AndyP

I do not want or need a new SA library. I want a player that works properly with the existing BBCSO. Nothing else matters to me.
All right, a few instruments could give it a bit more steam, and I don't mind more dynamic layer. Unless there's a marked improvement here, I'm leaving my money elsewhere.
After the support wanted my template I gave up using this library and prefer to use the libraries that (even if they are 10 years old) work reliably.


----------



## mralmostpopular

Maybe they’re announcing that they bought Maida Vale and all future recordings will be recorded there.

But probably not.


----------



## Technostica

Zedcars said:


> Yes, latency is an issue but people are streaming 4K movies and high end games now aren’t they? It just needs a fast connection which a lot of households have now.


Google and Nvidia offer games via streaming amongst others possibly. They even have free tiers!
Whilst movies don't require low latency, games certainly do so I think they worked very hard to reduce it to an okay level.
Music production generally requires a consistently low latency as we know here, so not sure what can be achieved in that field?
If you compose in the cloud and they render on their servers then it's just a matter of streaming a stereo stream to you. Even uncompressed that will be not an issue.
So upload MIDI to a Cloud DAW, edit/arrange/etc, then render and listen.
They could even allow you to sell finished recordings via the SA label (by invitation maybe) or link to Bandcamp! But that bit hardly seems revolutionary.
They could offer multiple tiers with the top one allowing you to download the rendered audio as a multi-track to finish locally.
Does anyone offer this kind of service?
There's a massive business in selling access to computers in the cloud and some of that is for very specific tasks such as AI.


----------



## tomosane

Zedcars said:


> Yes, latency is an issue but people are streaming 4K movies and high end games now aren’t they? It just needs a fast connection which a lot of households have now.



No, look at what's going on with Google Stadia for example. Game streaming isn't - and will not be in the foreseeable future - viable in the slightest because of latency issues. I for one can't fully grasp why this wouldn't be true for samples as well.


----------



## mralmostpopular

tomosane said:


> No, look at what's going on with Google Stadia for example. Game streaming isn't - and will not be in the foreseeable future - viable in the slightest because of latency issues. I for one can't fully grasp why this wouldn't be true for samples as well.



I agree. 4k movies are heavily compressed, and latency isn’t an issue when you aren’t interacting with it. Streaming samples can be glitchy on slower hard drives, let alone trying to do it via the internet.


----------



## tomosane

mralmostpopular said:


> I agree. 4k movies are heavily compressed, and latency isn’t an issue when you aren’t interacting with it. Streaming samples can be glitchy on slower hard drives, let alone trying to do it via the internet.


Yes exactly, movie streaming works just fine because latency isn't an issue *and* prebuffering works quite okay. On the other hand, no algorithm or AI will ever be able to prebuffer the next note you want to play.


----------



## Zedcars

tomosane said:


> No, look at what's going on with Google Stadia for example. Game streaming isn't - and will not be in the foreseeable future - viable in the slightest because of latency issues. I for one can't fully grasp why this wouldn't be true for samples as well.


But if it was one stereo mix? All you have then is the MIDI which is minuscule. I’m not talking about multiple high res audio tracks streaming back from the mothership, just a stereo mix. I’m just thinking in terms of beginners here not seasoned pros.


----------



## tomosane

Zedcars said:


> But if it was one stereo mix? All you have then is the MIDI which is minuscule. I’m not talking about multiple high res audio tracks streaming back from the mothership, just a stereo mix. I’m just thinking in terms of beginners here not seasoned pros.



Your computer has to send the MIDI note/information to a remote location, which then has to react to the information and send some audio back. This is okay with something like VEPro (I suppose, I've never used it) because your machines are in the same local network and most likely physically very close to each other as well, short LAN cables connecting to the same router or something like that. If not (say in my case -- I live in Finland and the remote streaming server will more than likely be very far away), the laws of physics will already place some hard limits to how fast I can possibly expect to hear the result of the MIDI information my machine has sent. And that's assuming the signal will go 100% optimally through all routers along the way, which will realistically never be the case.


----------



## Technostica

Zedcars said:


> But if it was one stereo mix? All you have then is the MIDI which is minuscule. I’m not talking about multiple high res audio tracks streaming back from the mothership, just a stereo mix. I’m just thinking in terms of beginners here not seasoned pros.


The latency is still an issue if you want to interact in close to real-time.
Try finding out what is a real world latency for online collaboration and then set your DAW to the same and see how it feels.


----------



## Zedcars

Well, from what you are saying it seems clear this idea needs to go back on the shelf until 2051 or something.

I’ll check back with you all then to see if this idea sprouted any legs.


----------



## Lee Blaske

I really wonder how the whole COVID-19 thing is hitting SA, and if this might have something to do with that. They just built their new HQ, and they've got a LOT of employees (perhaps, some of whom are working from home, now). But, I'm sure they really expected to keep the momentum going, and that just can't be done right now. On top of that, all of the low-hanging fruit has been sampled to death, now. Getting harder and harder to come out with a VI that will really change the game. Also, right now, we've got a massive army of composers creating film score music in an era when new films can't be shot. We are heading to a time when there's going to be a painful oversupply of library and film score music.


----------



## RonOrchComp

MauroPantin said:


> The plot thickens



Interesting. 

A *Try-sound* (try before you buy) type thing maybe?


----------



## Noeticus

38 pages and it's not even May 7th yet. Spitfire are on fire!


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

The idea of a new website makes me wonder if it's a new way of buying Spitfire product

Maybe like the Orchestral Tools website is supposed to be someday, you'll be able to buy a la carte? 

Buy an oboe from a woodwind library, for example.

Only pay for what you need!


----------



## redlester

Zedcars said:


> Another crazy idea which might be connected (but probably not)...what about making BBCSO accessible regardless of your rig by allowing you to play it through a website?



If this is the case I should point out I called it last Saturday!

https://vi-control.net/community/th...ng”-bbc-symphony-orchestra.84345/post-4549529


----------



## Dr.Quest

Modular - buy ala carte. Sections. It just makes sense.


----------



## Fleer

Spitfire App update and repositioned LABS.


----------



## cqd

Just think..We'll wake up tomorrow in a different world..


----------



## CT

I think they're changing genres.


----------



## Technostica

I am going to dig out my 'Who shot JR?' mug just in case this turns out to be a dream.


----------



## Peter Satera

They did say a spitfire pro player was coming.. BBC could be the first to support it.


----------



## Scalms

I'm going with... BBCSO free for everyone. That's a gamechanger and creates a universal starting point... for everyone


----------



## RonOrchComp

miket said:


> I think they're changing genres.



Hey - the Wachowski brothers did it!


----------



## RonOrchComp

Fleer said:


> Spitfire App update and repositioned LABS.



Yeah, no - that doesn't qualify as _It's all about to change_


----------



## Fleer

BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional
Version, come to mama!


----------



## Virtuoso

Fleer said:


> BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional
> Version, come to mama!


The 'Unprofessional Version' will be free to those who want the tuning issues, chair squeaks and crappy legato!


----------



## Fleer

Well, I’d sure love the update


----------



## Sears Poncho

Virtuoso said:


> The 'Unprofessional Version' will be free to those who want the tuning issues, chair squeaks and crappy legato!


Don't expect any of that. The Unprofessional Version will show up very late and very drunk.


----------



## Pando

Sears Poncho said:


> Don't expect any of that. The Unprofessional Version will show up very late and very drunk.



Then at least the trombones will sound good.


----------



## Sears Poncho

Pando said:


> Then at least the trombones will sound good.


...and the viola section too.


----------



## eakwarren

Zedcars said:


> Well, from what you are saying it seems clear this idea needs to go back on the shelf until 2051 or something.
> 
> I’ll check back with you all then to see if this idea sprouted any legs.



I think it's perhaps closer than we think. Not saying it's what SF has up their sleeve, but https://audiomovers.com looks ...interesting.



(The guy in the vid looks like he could be PT's long lost brother. )


----------



## Ben H

Maybe they're putting a custom shop INSIDE their player that will let you browse and purchase sounds from WITHIN the app, like IK Multimedia.

You also won't be able to hide/get rid of it, and it will also list all the instruments and patches that you don't yet own.


----------



## Michel Simons

SupremeFist said:


> 2030: Now That's What I Call Starting Points, vol. 1



Good one. Took me a couple of seconds before I got it though.



RogiervG said:


> Again defeats the purpose of THE universal starting point.. which is BBCSO itself.
> Two versions would lead to confusion and disappointments.. also it's not the/a universal starting point anymore.. because there are then two points.. in other words: not so universal anymore.



Maybe they have managed to gain access to a parallel universe. This way you can still have two universal starting points.



tomosane said:


> In his latest video CH is touting the upcoming announcement as a pivotal moment in both his and PT's careers.



Maybe they are going to be fired.



Alex Fraser said:


> To be fair, I think most see it as bait but just go along for the ride anyway. It’s only marketing and we’re all grown ups.



Exactly. And how hard it is it to ignore it when it bothers you?


----------



## yiph2

Everything is about to change 
Hopefully it's about how they will change their marketing


----------



## jaketanner

Michel Simons said:


> Maybe they are going to be fired.


Or they are selling SFA to another developer or a merge or sorts.


----------



## Rex282

yiph2 said:


> Everything is about to change
> Hopefully it's about how they will change their marketing


Ohhhhhh shit Christian Henson is really.........trump.....Gods save us all.....it’s the end!!!!....I’m gonna get SCS anways


----------



## dzilizzi

MaxOctane said:


> Ooooh... Spitfire Audio presents: "_The Last Question_"
> 
> If you have 20 minutes, this is an awesome and mind-blowing short story by Isaac Asimov:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Last Question -- Isaac Asimov
> 
> 
> Isaac Asimov's Last Question
> 
> 
> 
> www.multivax.com


Isn't the answer 42?


----------



## redlester

Maida Vale given listed building status! 

https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/maid...rade-ii-listing-by-historic-england-1-6641500


----------



## yiph2

So now they will be able to record updates for BBCSO!


----------



## dzilizzi

Lee Blaske said:


> I really wonder how the whole COVID-19 thing is hitting SA, and if this might have something to do with that. They just built their new HQ, and they've got a LOT of employees (perhaps, some of whom are working from home, now). But, I'm sure they really expected to keep the momentum going, and that just can't be done right now. On top of that, all of the low-hanging fruit has been sampled to death, now. Getting harder and harder to come out with a VI that will really change the game. Also, right now, we've got a massive army of composers creating film score music in an era when new films can't be shot. We are heading to a time when there's going to be a painful oversupply of library and film score music.


From what they've said, it takes one to five years to make a library. Depending on how much recording is needed and the number of samples to clean and sort through. So I don't think Covid comes into this much.


----------



## redlester

yiph2 said:


> So now they will be able to record updates for BBCSO!



I doubt it means it will retain its current use, its more to do with protecting the structure.

https://www.hiscox.co.uk/home-insurance/cover-stories/grade-ii-listed-building-regulations/


----------



## Delboy

well today is the day and yet nothing .. guess we will have to wait for them to arrive at work


----------



## dzilizzi

Delboy said:


> well today is the day and yet nothing .. guess we will have to wait for them to arrive at work


It's usually at around 5pm their time.


----------



## Zedcars

cqd said:


> Just think..We'll wake up tomorrow in a different world..


Well, the fateful day has arrived and everything’s changed alright; I’m no longer a fella and have sprouted two new bouncy playmates on my chest. Meat and two veg have also skidaddled replaced by a decidedly more tidy arrangement. On the plus side I can finally hit those high notes in Take On Me...


----------



## yiph2

Delboy said:


> well today is the day and yet nothing .. guess we will have to wait for them to arrive at work


The release is at 4pm BST I think


----------



## Matt Damon

Same company that touted Albion NEO as a "revolution"


----------



## vdk-john

yiph2 said:


> The release is at 4pm BST I think



Yeah that's also what it looks like from the countdown on Instagram


----------



## synkrotron

dzilizzi said:


> It's usually at around 5pm their time.



According to @christianhenson 's last tweet he is doing "something" today from his own channel at 19:00hrs (7PM BST).



> So that’s Thursday from 19.00 BST on my channel for some amazing insights into this new amazing thing





But that's not to say that there isn't a release of information before that.


I'm not quite getting why Christian is doing something on his own YouTube channel. It's almost as if it isn't anything to do with Spitfire Audio. But there is a very short teaser on Spitfire Audio's own twitter page.

Maida Vale building being given listed status... That is very interesting.


----------



## yiph2

THe release is 4pm, and in Christian's video they said him an Paul are going to be talking about that at 7pm


----------



## Sunny Schramm

A VIOLIN FROM THE SEA?


----------



## synkrotron

yiph2 said:


> THe release is 4pm, and in Christian's video they said him an Paul are going to be talking about that at 7pm



Ah, I see.


----------



## lgmcben

Matt Damon said:


> Same company that touted Albion NEO as a "revolution"



How dare you trash talk the lib that eliminates writer's block


----------



## vdk-john

I'm very excited today!


----------



## Technostica

I put away the Monopoly board last night and after breakfast I shall dig out the Cludeo. 
Now that's what I call a real game changer.


----------



## Zedcars

vdk-john said:


> I'm very excited today!


Worth another share


----------



## Virtuoso

Interesting. Updates to BBCSO 1.18 are available and there's also '*BBCSO Discover*' (probably a plugin) and '*BBCSO Core*' (22.5GB) in the download list. Coming down at a whopping 0.2Mbps on my Gigabit line, so I'll get back to you in August when they're downloaded.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Everything changes.

We should probably remember that SF is in lockdown with everyone working in pyjamas (and Spitfire slippers) at home, or at least in reduced numbers. 

Probably not the best time to unleash huge technical changes in the buying process etc.


----------



## Zedcars

Virtuoso said:


> Interesting. Updates to BBCSO 1.18 are available and there's also '*BBCSO Discover*' (probably a plugin) and '*BBCSO Core*' (22.5GB) in the download list. Coming down at a whopping 0.2Mbps on my Gigabit line, so I'll get back to you in August when they're downloaded.
> 
> View attachment 30201
> View attachment 30203


There we go...so it’s ‘Discover’ not ‘Discovery’. I was only one letter out! Not too shabby.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> There we go...so it’s ‘Discover’ not ‘Discovery’. I was only one letter out! Not too shabby.


Well spotted mate. You gone done it again!
And “core” seems pretty self explanatory.


----------



## vdk-john

Zedcars said:


> Worth another share



Always


----------



## Virtuoso

I would imagine it's free as a starter kit for budding composers, hopefully with marketing support from the BBC (would be awesome if it formed the basis of an educational series). Speculating that 'Discover' might allow you to run trials of other products.

Thankfully they put Core on a faster server than the other updates. Won't be long now till everything changes.


----------



## vdk-john

It would be nice if discover was an educational one


----------



## N.Caffrey

guess we already know a lot then, still hope to be surprised a bit


----------



## Jaap

No updates showing here for BBC SO


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> Well spotted mate. You gone done it again!
> And “core” seems pretty self explanatory.


I think CH may tidy up his screen shots in future vlogs to avoid any further accidental leaks. Although, I guess just a name doesn’t tell you much so it wasn’t that bad.


----------



## Jeast

So... A sampled orchestra where all the players are seated 1.5m apart.. Not ALL is gonna change. My template will stay exactly the same. Pre-COVID orchestral recording’s, with traditional seating, are gonna be the vintage sound everyone is going for in a few years anyway.


----------



## Go To 11

Zedcars said:


> BBCSO Discovery. The name even fits.


And here it is! The one who called it!


----------



## Delboy

Thks to you all .. will see what happens late this afternoon then .. excited or what !


----------



## Zedcars

I see they also ‘borrowed’ my countdown timer idea from last year’s announcement.


----------



## yiph2

We still haven't figured out the 2nd item they are releasing...
Is it symphonic motions?


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> We still haven't figured out the 2nd item they are releasing...
> Is it symphonic motions?


Discovery plus core = 2?


----------



## yiph2

Doubt it, if it is that's very disappointing...
But Paul's Instagram shows a different interface, so I think it's another product. Also shows the orchestra seating thing


----------



## Virtuoso

The BBCSO plugin (v1.1.8) now runs in one of 3 selectable modes - Pro, Core and Discover. Discover mode has a friendly intuitive UI with the orchestral wedges. If you hover over a wedge, it gives tips on how to use that section of the orchestra. Limited articulations in this mode though (just 2-4 are available). It does not have a store front, like Sine, which is a relief!


----------



## yiph2

Virtuoso said:


> The BBCSO plugin (v1.1.8) now runs in one of 3 selectable modes - Pro, Core and Discover. Discover mode has a friendly intuitive UI with the orchestral wedges. If you hover over a wedge, it gives tips on how to use that section of the orchestra. Limited articulations in this mode though (just 2-4 are available). It does not have a store front, like Sine, which is a relief!


Cool, do you have a picture? Does it look like the orchestral seating plan they posted?


----------



## Virtuoso

yiph2 said:


> Cool, do you have a picture? Does it look like the orchestral seating plan they posted?


----------



## Zedcars

My eyes! It burns...


----------



## yiph2

Ok, dissapointing... they found a way to waste more space...
Do they still have individual instruments? And how much memory? Less than the normal one? Thanks!


----------



## Zero&One

Nice BBCSO update.

Can't wait to see what they release today though!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Virtuoso said:


> The BBCSO plugin (v1.1.8) now runs in one of 3 selectable modes - Pro, Core and Discover. Discover mode has a friendly intuitive UI with the orchestral wedges. If you hover over a wedge, it gives tips on how to use that section of the orchestra. Limited articulations in this mode though (just 2-4 are available). It does not have a store front, like Sine, which is a relief!


What’s core mode if you don’t mind me asking?


----------



## yiph2

Zero&One said:


> Nice BBCSO update.
> 
> Can't wait to see what they release today though!


That's the release... how disappointing 
Its the same interface as Spitfire's instagram


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

Alex Fraser said:


> What’s core mode if you don’t mind me asking?


it's actually 'hardcore mode' - for each consecutive parallel fifth, you lose a Round Robin. And every bit of bad voice-leading loses you a dynamic level. If all samples get purged the UI gets replaced with text telling you to go back to the Bach Chorale book.


----------



## Zedcars

Alex Fraser said:


> What’s *core mode* if you don’t mind me asking?


That’s one of these I think...


----------



## Zedcars

Downloading now...


----------



## filipjonathan

Virtuoso said:


>


How in the world did you get this???


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> Downloading now...


Cool. I’m gonna feed the kids breakfast and when I log back in, I expect all the beans spilled. SPILLED. 😅


----------



## Zero&One

Zedcars said:


> Downloading now...



Do you feel any different?

I'm still stoked to see what they release today!


----------



## korgscrew2000

Go To 11 said:


> It’s kind of amazing they’ve leaked their own launch ahead of time.



Is that is what they are going to launch. This happens a-lot with Spitfire. They ballsed up a couple of launches. If there wasn't as much hype then it wouldn't be so bad.


----------



## Virtuoso

Alex Fraser said:


> What’s core mode if you don’t mind me asking?


I've only just got it, so I'm still exploring. Seems to be a cut down version of the full BBCSO. In the strings for example, you don't get the Leaders. Taking Violins 1 as an example, memory usage in Pro is 971MB, in Core mode 839MB (all 20 artics) and in Discover 221MB (only 4 artics - Long, Spiccato, Pizzicato and Tremolo).

Ah - just realized, there's no mixer in Core mode, so only one Mic option I presume. That's going to be great for people on laptops with limited space.

If Core is going to be available free to all (speculating here), it may have a different range of artics to the full version. In other words, the Core Violins in my system may have the full 20 artics because I already have the full version - someone getting just Core may only have a few.


----------



## yiph2

Virtuoso said:


> I've only just got it, so I'm still exploring. Seems to be a cut down version of the full BBCSO. In the strings for example, you don't get the Leaders. Taking Violins 1 as an example, memory usage in Pro is 971MB, in Core mode 839MB (all 20 artics) and in Discover 221MB (only 4 artics - Long, Spiccato, Pizzicato and Tremolo).
> 
> If Core is going to be available free to all (speculating here), it may have a different range of artics to the full version. In other words, the Core Violins in my system may have the full 20 artics because I already have the full version - someone getting just Core may only have a few.


If core is free to everyone what is discover


----------



## Zero&One

yiph2 said:


> If core is free to everyone what is discover



Discover what you should have bought!


----------



## Zedcars

yiph2 said:


> If core is free to everyone what is discover


I'm guessing we'll _Discover_ that later and go cooooooore blimey!*

(joke shamelessly stolen from @Virtuoso ! lol)


----------



## yiph2

Zero&One said:


> Discover what you should have bought!


I'm dead 
I'm guessing 99 for discover, 499 for core
Does core have all the articulations? What is the difference between that and pro?


----------



## Artemi

So maybe it's
Pro - full & updated version, Core - half of it, and the Discovery is a free entry version?


----------



## ptram

Alex Fraser said:


> We should probably remember that SF is in lockdown with everyone working in pyjamas


They have sampled this orchestra. Immune from viruses (unless they run under Windows).

Robotic Orchestra

Paolo


----------



## Virtuoso

Artemi said:


> So maybe it's
> Pro - full & updated version, Core - half of it, and the Discovery is a free entry version?


I'm betting Core is free and Discover is just a friendlier UI for those starting out.


----------



## korgscrew2000

Virtuoso said:


> I've only just got it, so I'm still exploring. Seems to be a cut down version of the full BBCSO. In the strings for example, you don't get the Leaders. Taking Violins 1 as an example, memory usage in Pro is 971MB, in Core mode 839MB (all 20 artics) and in Discover 221MB (only 4 artics - Long, Spiccato, Pizzicato and Tremolo).
> 
> Ah - just realized, there's no mixer in Core mode, so only one Mic option I presume. That's going to be great for people on laptops with limited space.
> 
> If Core is going to be available free to all (speculating here), it may have a different range of artics to the full version. In other words, the Core Violins in my system may have the full 20 artics because I already have the full version - someone getting just Core may only have a few.



It doesn't really make sense to give a core version of BBCSO for free as they have the Originals for £29 - Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and percussion and they are all old samples from the original Albions.

If it is this they are launching, I'm guessing Core will be a low entry price and then you are able up upgrade to discovery etc.


----------



## yiph2

korgscrew2000 said:


> It doesn't really make sense to give a core version of BBCSO for free as they have the Originals for £29 - Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and percussion and they are all old samples from the original Albions.
> 
> If it is this they are launching, I'm guessing Core will be a low entry price and then you are able up upgrade to discovery etc.


Core is above discovery
I'm hoping core will be less than 500 although that will completely ruin Albion's sales


----------



## N.Caffrey

Can't believe they leaked it themselves


----------



## Virtuoso

There's a Bass Flute in Pro, which I know lots of people will be _very excited_ about.


----------



## Zedcars

Virtuoso said:


> There's a Bass Flute in Pro, which I know lots of people will be _very excited_ about.


Any piano?


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

N.Caffrey said:


> Can't believe they leaked it themselves



Probably a better way of them to build even further hype than just making us wait for the launch this afternoon


----------



## Zero&One

Virtuoso said:


> There's a Bass Flute in Pro, which I know lots of people will be _very excited_ about.



Aperture?


----------



## NoamL

*BBCSO Discover *= hypercheap Berlin Orch Inspire competitor

*Symphonic Motions * = waves/evos (either newly recorded or mangled through sounddesign) for SSO update later this year. Like an Albion with SSO Seating, or if you prefer a Time Macro/Micro competitor.

they were two different products all along

IMO


----------



## korgscrew2000

Zero&One said:


> Aperture?



Only available for 15 mins if you buy the two new products plus 4 qualifying products, never to be released again, ever.


----------



## Virtuoso

Zedcars said:


> Any piano?


Nope - I think the Bass Flute is the only new instrument. This is what the release notes say:-

*[1.1.8] - 2020-04-24*
*Summary*

Initial public release of Core and Discover modes
*Fixed*

Fixed a crash when duplicating or moving the plugin in ProTools
Pro/Core: Changed the default Tightness control value for Strings to zero which makes Spiccato and Staccato attacks more responsive
Pro/Core: Fixed noise in some releases in Horns a4 - Legato 
Fixed the modulation wheel slider resetting to zero on reopening the user interface and causing the I2 (Dynamics) fader to be zero'd too 
Pro: Default to have timed short release turned on if a factory preset contains any relevant techniques (e.g., Marcato, Tenuto) 
The technique matrix will now switch to the page than contains the main active technique even when keyswitching 
Pro/Core: Fixed an edge case in legatos where rapid notes (<15ms) notes below velocity 64 would cause incorrect void stealing
Fixed the saving and restoring of the stereo flip state which would cause some techniques to apparently flip arbitrarily
Fixed mapped CCs in certain cases from interfering with other CCs (e.g., cc33 could get zeroed by using the modulation wheel, cc1)
*Added*

Pro: Added Bass Flute techniques except Legato 
*Changed*

The preset editor button now shows as greyed-out when not available due to replacement instruments


----------



## Zedcars

Virtuoso said:


> Nope - I think the Bass Flute is the only new instrument. This is what the release notes say:-
> 
> *[1.1.8] - 2020-04-24*
> *Summary*
> 
> Initial public release of Core and Discover modes
> *Fixed*
> 
> Fixed a crash when duplicating or moving the plugin in ProTools
> Pro/Core: Changed the default Tightness control value for Strings to zero which makes Spiccato and Staccato attacks more responsive
> Pro/Core: Fixed noise in some releases in Horns a4 - Legato
> Fixed the modulation wheel slider resetting to zero on reopening the user interface and causing the I2 (Dynamics) fader to be zero'd too
> Pro: Default to have timed short release turned on if a factory preset contains any relevant techniques (e.g., Marcato, Tenuto)
> The technique matrix will now switch to the page than contains the main active technique even when keyswitching
> Pro/Core: Fixed an edge case in legatos where rapid notes (<15ms) notes below velocity 64 would cause incorrect void stealing
> Fixed the saving and restoring of the stereo flip state which would cause some techniques to apparently flip arbitrarily
> Fixed mapped CCs in certain cases from interfering with other CCs (e.g., cc33 could get zeroed by using the modulation wheel, cc1)
> *Added*
> 
> Pro: Added Bass Flute techniques except Legato
> *Changed*
> 
> The preset editor button now shows as greyed-out when not available due to replacement instruments


WTF? Where'd my post go? 

Could of sworn I posted that just now. Am I going bonkers or something?


----------



## yiph2

In the other page, theres one made by Spitfire a few minutes ago


----------



## Scamper

Virtuoso said:


> Ah - just realized, there's no mixer in Core mode, so only one Mic option I presume. That's going to be great for people on laptops with limited space.



If other cut down versions of Spitfire are anything to go by, Core could be ranging from 250-500€.


----------



## yiph2

Scamper said:


> If other cut down versions of Spitfire are anything to go by, Core could be ranging from 250-500€.


I'm going to say half price, like SStO
Many people will feel scammed if it's less, as they have the same articulations and instruments


----------



## filipjonathan

Virtuoso said:


> Nope - I think the Bass Flute is the only new instrument. This is what the release notes say:-
> 
> *[1.1.8] - 2020-04-24*
> *Summary*
> 
> Initial public release of Core and Discover modes
> *Fixed*
> 
> Fixed a crash when duplicating or moving the plugin in ProTools
> Pro/Core: Changed the default Tightness control value for Strings to zero which makes Spiccato and Staccato attacks more responsive
> Pro/Core: Fixed noise in some releases in Horns a4 - Legato
> Fixed the modulation wheel slider resetting to zero on reopening the user interface and causing the I2 (Dynamics) fader to be zero'd too
> Pro: Default to have timed short release turned on if a factory preset contains any relevant techniques (e.g., Marcato, Tenuto)
> The technique matrix will now switch to the page than contains the main active technique even when keyswitching
> Pro/Core: Fixed an edge case in legatos where rapid notes (<15ms) notes below velocity 64 would cause incorrect void stealing
> Fixed the saving and restoring of the stereo flip state which would cause some techniques to apparently flip arbitrarily
> Fixed mapped CCs in certain cases from interfering with other CCs (e.g., cc33 could get zeroed by using the modulation wheel, cc1)
> *Added*
> 
> Pro: Added Bass Flute techniques except Legato
> *Changed*
> 
> The preset editor button now shows as greyed-out when not available due to replacement instruments


I don't know why but I kinda feel you spoiled all the fun 😂


----------



## Zedcars

Zedcars said:


> WTF? Where'd my post go?
> 
> Could of sworn I posted that just now. Am I going bonkers or something?





yiph2 said:


> In the other page, theres one made by Spitfire a few minutes ago


My bad...I posted in the wrong thread! Oops.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Or maybe just less MIC positions? I really don't need 15 of those ;D


----------



## Virtuoso

yiph2 said:


> I'm going to say half price, like SStO
> Many people will feel scammed if it's less, as they have the same articulations and instruments


Christian has used some pretty strong language though, and these are unique times.

"this is a death-bed opportunity... where we think to ourselves, we did THAT". Cannot emote, emoji or indeed be histrionic enough about how mahooooosive this is."

And something about 'Santa Spitfire' and this being the biggest move in their professional careers. I'm still betting it's free - to enable a whole new generation of composers to get on the train. We'll know soon enough!

NB - they may not necessarily have the same articulations, as I noted earlier. Someone just downloading Core who does not already have the Pro version may have a different selection.


----------



## Scamper

yiph2 said:


> I'm going to say half price, like SStO
> Many people will feel scammed if it's less, as they have the same articulations and instruments



True, but given that you're only getting about 1/20 of the content (losing 18 of the 19 mics/mixes), half-price doesn't seem like much of a game changer, but maybe that's reserved for Discover.


----------



## korgscrew2000

filipjonathan said:


> I don't know why but I kinda feel you spoiled all the fun 😂



It's not really a "This changes everything" thing tough is it. Let's see what happens at 4PM UK time. If it is something like this (a patch update), I'll be pretty pissed.


----------



## Zero&One

Well I'm out, until they release the 'big thing' today.

An update isn't big or exciting. Unless you are a tester. I'm not btw


----------



## Zedcars

New Bass Flute = This changes everything


----------



## yiph2

Virtuoso said:


> Christian has used some pretty strong language though, and these are unique times.
> 
> "this is a death-bed opportunity... where we think to ourselves, we did THAT". Cannot emote, emoji or indeed be histrionic enough about how mahooooosive this is."
> 
> And something about 'Santa Spitfire'. I'm still betting it's free. We'll know soon enough!
> 
> NB - they may not necessarily have the same articulations, as I noted earlier. Someone just downloading Core who does not already have the Pro version may have a different selection.


I still think Core will be paid, but Discover could be free, even though I doubt it


----------



## Zedcars

Our US cousins are all sleeping soundly now but they're going to wake up to a shit storm of new posts to read 

(Unless they block me then they'll have less shit to read lol)


----------



## Alex Fraser

NoamL said:


> *BBCSO Discover *= hypercheap Berlin Orch Inspire competitor
> 
> *Symphonic Motions * = waves/evos (either newly recorded or mangled through sounddesign) for SSO update later this year. Like an Albion with SSO Seating, or if you prefer a Time Macro/Micro competitor.
> 
> they were two different products all along
> 
> IMO


I agree - Symphonic Motions is for another time.

I'll go with: Discovery - FREE!
Core - One mic/mix version, reduced instrument count (eg no leaders)

Seems to make sense that they'll be available as separate products later today.


----------



## Zedcars

One thing I'm slightly confused about: If I already have BBCSO original installed, then I download Core, well aren't I downloading and duplicating a lot of files I already have?


----------



## korgscrew2000

Zedcars said:


> One thing I'm slightly confused about: If I already have BBCSO original installed, then I download Core, well aren't I downloading and duplicating a lot of files I already have?



I'm guessing it will use the samples you already have.


----------



## doctoremmet

Alex Fraser said:


> Oh, and the bass flute and piano will finally drop. That's my flag in the sand.


Nicely put flag.


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

Alex Fraser said:


> I agree - Symphonic Motions is for another time.
> 
> I'll go with: Discovery - FREE!
> Core - One mic/mix version, reduced instrument count (eg no leaders)
> 
> Seems to make sense that they'll be available as separate products later today.



I think the same, Discovery free and perhaps Core launching at a special price of £99, then afterwards £199?


----------



## Zedcars

korgscrew2000 said:


> I'm guessing it will use the samples you already have.


Yeah, I guess it will just update the files if necessary in my BBCSO folder right? But then the next question is: what will happen to my previous BBCSO projects? Will they open and play just as before? If there are any problems with that I might just cry.


----------



## korgscrew2000

Alex Fraser said:


> I agree - Symphonic Motions is for another time.
> 
> I'll go with: Discovery - FREE!
> Core - One mic/mix version, reduced instrument count (eg no leaders)
> 
> Seems to make sense that they'll be available as separate products later today.



Plus a sale (hopefully). A-lot of people won't be buying at the moment but a sale could help get some extra cash in.


----------



## Virtuoso

_Core is a separate 22.57GB folder in the main Samples folder.

_Discover is only 171.5MB


----------



## yiph2

EasterIslandStatue said:


> I think the same, Discovery free and perhaps Core launching at a special price of £99, then afterwards £199?


I don't think so, it has all the instruments that the Pro version has (correct me if I'm wrong)


----------



## Alex Fraser

Virtuoso said:


> _Core is a separate 22.57GB folder in the main Samples folder.
> 
> _Discover is only 171.5MB


Kewl. 
On that basis, "core" looks like a chargeable product, and "Discovery" could easily be free.
Assuming they're separate products of course..


----------



## yiph2

Alex Fraser said:


> Kewl.
> On that basis, "core" looks like a chargeable product, and "Discovery" could easily be free.
> Assuming they're separate products of course..


But how can they fit everything in Discover in 200 MB? Isn't the LABS more than that?


----------



## doctoremmet

jbuhler said:


> Yes, and the solo trombone sounds great on the lower dynamic layers too.


This thread can be the source of a PhD on how marketing hype can sometimes evolve into very interesting totally unrelated side discussions, like the mp versus fff capacities of the JXL trombone - all in the same thread! Also I am now reading an Isaac Asimov short story, via a link provided here! Cool thread y’all!


----------



## Alex Fraser

EasterIslandStatue said:


> I think the same, Discovery free and perhaps Core launching at a special price of £99, then afterwards £199?


I'm guessing any "Core" would be nearer the halfway price point of the full BBCSO.


----------



## Scamper

yiph2 said:


> I don't think so, it has all the instruments that the Pro version has (correct me if I'm wrong)


Even if you cut down BBCSO to a single mic, it would be about 30GB. Compared to 22.5GB there should be quite a bit more content in the Pro version regarding instruments and articulations.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Scamper said:


> Even if you cut down BBCSO to a single mic, it would be about 30GB. Compared to 22.5GB there should be quite a bit more content in the Pro version regarding instruments and articulations.


My thoughts too. But if leaders aren't included, there's one saving. Plus some of the more distant signals in the full version will have longer 'verb tails hence larger file size. So there's wriggle room.


----------



## johanholmstrom

vdk-john said:


> Introducing...
> 
> Spitfire Tuning Fork


How many microphones?


----------



## Jaap

synkrotron said:


> I made the grave mistake of opening my Spitfire Audio app this morning... It required an update and is now at 3.2.2
> 
> Now my Eric Whitacre Choir has gone tits up.
> 
> So, yeah, this changes everything



Had the same, click on the cogwheel thingy, choose relocate and just selecting where you installed it again (for me it showed already straight away the correct location) fixed it straight away.
But no update showing for BBC SO here still


----------



## Zedcars

BBCSO Discover Preset List

BBCSODi_Bass Trombones a2_All
BBCSODi_Horns a4_All
BBCSODi_Tenor Trombones a3_All
BBCSODi_Trumpets a2_All
BBCSODi_Tuba_All

BBCSODi_Percussion_1
BBCSODi_Percussion_2
BBCSODi_Percussion_3

BBCSODi_Basses_All
BBCSODi_Celli_All
BBCSODi_Violas_All
BBCSODi_Violins 1_All
BBCSODi_Violins 2_All

BBCSODi_Bassoons a3_All
BBCSODi_Clarinets a3_All
BBCSODi_Flutes a3_All
BBCSODi_Oboes a3_All
BBCSODi_Piccolo_All

Although, looks like the Discover _patches_ are as extensive as the main version meaning you can expand upon that basic starting point if you need to (I guess).


----------



## yiph2

What about core?


----------



## synkrotron

Jaap said:


> Had the same, click on the cogwheel thingy, choose relocate and just selecting where you installed it again (for me it showed already straight away the correct location) fixed it straight away.
> But no update showing for BBC SO here still



Thanks, I'll give that a whirl.

I realise I shouldn't have posted that here... Just a knee jerk reaction. I will edit my post above.

cheers

andy


----------



## Zedcars

yiph2 said:


> What about core?


(unsorted preset list)

BBCSO Bass Clarinet
BBCSO Bass Flute
BBCSO Bass Leader
BBCSO Bass Trombones a2
BBCSO Basses
BBCSO Bassoon
BBCSO Bassoons a3
BBCSO Celeste
BBCSO Celli
BBCSO Celli Leader
BBCSO Clarinet
BBCSO Clarinets a3
BBCSO Contrabass Clarinet
BBCSO Contrabass Trombone
BBCSO Contrabass Tuba
BBCSO Contrabassoon
BBCSO Cor Anglais
BBCSO Crotales
BBCSO Flute
BBCSO Flutes a3
BBCSO Glockenspiel
BBCSO Harp
BBCSO Horn
BBCSO Horns a4
BBCSO Marimba
BBCSO Oboe
BBCSO Oboes a3
BBCSO Piccolo
BBCSO Tenor Trombone
BBCSO Tenor Trombones a3
BBCSO Timpani
BBCSO Trumpet
BBCSO Trumpets a2
BBCSO Tuba
BBCSO Tubular bells
BBCSO Untuned Percussion
BBCSO Vibraphone
BBCSO Viola Leader
BBCSO Violas
BBCSO Violin 1 Leader
BBCSO Violin 2 Leader
BBCSO Violins 1
BBCSO Violins 2
BBCSO Xylophone


----------



## yiph2

Thanks! I guess I'm going to get the core! Hope there is legato...


----------



## korgscrew2000

johanholmstrom said:


> How many microphones?


Just one. A bottle mic. 58gb


----------



## Alex Fraser

Zedcars said:


> (unsorted preset list)
> 
> BBCSO Bass Clarinet
> BBCSO Bass Flute
> BBCSO Bass Leader
> BBCSO Bass Trombones a2
> BBCSO Basses
> BBCSO Bassoon
> BBCSO Bassoons a3
> BBCSO Celeste
> BBCSO Celli
> BBCSO Celli Leader
> BBCSO Clarinet
> BBCSO Clarinets a3
> BBCSO Contrabass Clarinet
> BBCSO Contrabass Trombone
> BBCSO Contrabass Tuba
> BBCSO Contrabassoon
> BBCSO Cor Anglais
> BBCSO Crotales
> BBCSO Flute
> BBCSO Flutes a3
> BBCSO Glockenspiel
> BBCSO Harp
> BBCSO Horn
> BBCSO Horns a4
> BBCSO Marimba
> BBCSO Oboe
> BBCSO Oboes a3
> BBCSO Piccolo
> BBCSO Tenor Trombone
> BBCSO Tenor Trombones a3
> BBCSO Timpani
> BBCSO Trumpet
> BBCSO Trumpets a2
> BBCSO Tuba
> BBCSO Tubular bells
> BBCSO Untuned Percussion
> BBCSO Vibraphone
> BBCSO Viola Leader
> BBCSO Violas
> BBCSO Violin 1 Leader
> BBCSO Violin 2 Leader
> BBCSO Violins 1
> BBCSO Violins 2
> BBCSO Xylophone


So, that looks all present and correct? I can't seen anything missing from the main version. I've only had one coffee today though..


----------



## yiph2

Alex Fraser said:


> So, that looks all present and correct? I can't seen anything missing from the main version. I've only had one coffee today though..


Yea, I think maybe less articulations and no mic change


----------



## John R Wilson

Alex Fraser said:


> My thoughts too. But if leaders aren't included, there's one saving. Plus some of the more distant signals in the full version will have longer 'verb tails hence larger file size. So there's wriggle room.



Is their a pro version? Seems like discover has limited articulations, core is a reduced one mic version but have they updated the main library or made a pro version? No updates showing my end as of yet.


----------



## Go To 11

My hunch is that Discover is free (in line with BBC education ethos), and Core is a single mix mic version of BBCSO in line with their Studio range - reduced price, perhaps no leaders as a small incentive to upgrade some day to Pro (same as Studio range, some instruments omitted). My question is, will Discover have legatos or just longs? Are we teaching a whole new generation of kids that musicians play notes completely disconnected? A free, lite version of BBCSO with just the key sections, and legato, would be a game changer for the new generation. My hunch though is that they won't include legato, keeping that as a premium feature for Core and Pro.


----------



## Virtuoso

Zedcars said:


> (unsorted preset list)


Although they are filed under Core in the patches folder, quite a few of those don't appear in Core mode on my system, only in Pro - the section Leaders and the Bass Flute for example. Is that what you're seeing in the plugin?


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

Go To 11 said:


> Are we teaching a whole new generation of kids that musicians play notes completely disconnected?



Hey, some of us had to muddle through with EWQLSO Silver. It'll be good character-building stuff...


----------



## yiph2

Go To 11 said:


> My hunch is that Discover is free (in line with BBC education ethos), and Core is a single mix mic version of BBCSO in line with their Studio range - reduced price, perhaps no leaders as a small incentive to upgrade some day to Pro (same as Studio range, some instruments omitted). My question is, will Discover have legatos or just longs? Are we teaching a whole new generation of kids that musicians play notes completely disconnected? A free, lite version of BBCSO with just the key sections, and legato, would be a game changer for the new generation. My hunch though is that they won't include legato, keeping that as a premium feature for Core and Pro.


From a previous post it seems like there is only long, spiccato, pizzicato and tremolo for the strings


----------



## Scamper

Go To 11 said:


> My question is, will Discover have legatos or just longs?



At less than 200MB, I'd be surprised, if there are even 2 dynamic layers.
So maybe no legato, 1 dynamic layer, very basic articulations, no round robins and just the necessary instrument patches. Sure, that would be a drastic reduction, but hey it's free to check out (EDIT: assuming it's free, I'm getting ahead here).


----------



## Virtuoso

Go To 11 said:


> My hunch though is that they won't include legato, keeping that as a premium feature for Core and Pro.


Maybe people using Discover could upgrade à la carte to articulations/instruments that are in Core? Perhaps that's what the new website is about (or did I dream that..?)


----------



## yiph2

Virtuoso said:


> Maybe people using Discover could upgrade à la carte to articulations/instruments that are in Core? Perhaps that's what the new website is about (or did I dream that..?)


Christian literally got into an discussion about that saying why they won't do that on YouTube


----------



## Go To 11

yiph2 said:


> From a previous post it seems like there is only long, spiccato, pizzicato and tremolo for the strings


That's not far off something like Red Room Audio's Palette Primary Colours then, right? What a gift that too is for a starting composer. https://redroomaudio.com/product/palette-primary-colors/


----------



## Virtuoso

Scamper said:


> At less than 200MB, I'd be surprised, if there are even 2 dynamic layers.


I'm going to guess that Core will be a mandatory 22.57GB download and that Discover will use Core samples, which may or may not be chargeable upgrades. I think the tiny size of the Discover sample folder is a red herring.


----------



## scoringdreams

The 2nd coming of Masse?


----------



## Eptesicus

Yeh, i cant see how Discover could be 200mb. It would have to be tiny or virtually have zero content.


----------



## Virtuoso

yiph2 said:


> Christian literally got into an discussion about that saying why they won't do that on YouTube


Good - I'm glad they're not going down that route. I still think it will be free - it fits with the drama of all the statements from Christian so far. Like when Apple did a big hype build about their new OS Mavericks and then revealed it would be free for all.


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

Virtuoso said:


> Good - I'm glad they're not going down that route. I still think it will be free - it fits with the drama of all the statements from Christian so far. Like when Apple did a big hype build about their new OS Mavericks and then revealed it would be free for all.



Agreed, I'm hoping core will be free, and would be in line with Christian's wording about the massiveness of this announcement. I don't think just having Discovery as free would quite match the hype otherwise. Crossing my fingers!


----------



## RogiervG

A core or discover version is not something BIG HUGE or SPECIAL (they never thought would happen in their carreers.. a deathbed project like thing)
by any means... they did it already with other products. (normal vs Pro version e.g.)

no i still think there is still something big to be announced... this evening.


----------



## korgscrew2000

RogiervG said:


> A core or discover version is not something BIG HUGE or SPECIAL (they never thought would happen in their carreers.. a deathbed project like thing)
> by any means... they did it already with other products. (normal vs Pro version e.g.)
> 
> no i still think there is still something big to be announced... this evening.



Exactly, why would they release the update to BBCSO users this morning, unless it was a fuck up.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Yep, I guess the million dollar question is _if and how_ this stuff is split into separate products.


RogiervG said:


> A core or discover version is not something BIG HUGE or SPECIAL (they never thought would happen in their carreers.. a deathbed project like thing)
> by any means... they did it already with other products. (normal vs Pro version e.g.)
> 
> no i still think there is still something big to be announced... this evening.


Somewhere on these very pages, PT mentioned that the stated goal of the original BBCSO was to create a complete orchestra retailing at under 1K, every design decision working to that aim. At other times, reps from Spitfire support have indicated that we shouldn't expect many more BBCSO instruments to be released. (As a response when we got all flustered over the bass flute.)

In other words, it's likely the existing BBCSO product is the "gold standard" and any new BBCSO releases go lower tier, or sideways.



korgscrew2000 said:


> Exactly, why would they release the update to BBCSO users this morning, unless it was a fuck up.


Occam's razor.


----------



## yiph2

The problem with that for customers is that there is no crossgrade from this to a professional library


----------



## Zedcars

OK, here's the full patch/art list from the Core folder. Apologies if I have missed anything (split into two posts as too long to post in 1 post):

PRO PATCHES/ARTS PART 1:

Piccolo Falls
Piccolo Legato (Extended)
Piccolo Legato
Piccolo Long Flutter
Piccolo Long
Piccolo Multitongue
Piccolo Rips
Piccolo Short Marcato
Piccolo Short Staccatissimo
Piccolo Short Tenuto
Piccolo Trill (Major 2nd)
Piccolo Trill (Minor 2nd)

Flute Legato (Extended)
Flute Legato
Flute Long Flutter
Flute Long
Flute Multitongue
Flute Short Marcato
Flute Short Staccatissimo
Flute Short Tenuto
Flute Trill (Major 2nd)
Flute Trill (Minor 2nd)

Flutes a3 Legato (Extended)
Flutes a3 Legato
Flutes a3 Long Flutter
Flutes a3 Long
Flutes a3 Multitongue
Flutes a3 Short Marcato
Flutes a3 Short Staccatissimo
Flutes a3 Short Tenuto
Flutes a3 Trill (Major 2nd)
Flutes a3 Trill (Minor 2nd)

Bass Flute Long Flutter
Bass Flute Long
Bass Flute Short Marcato
Bass Flute Short Staccatissimo
Bass Flute Short Tenuto
Bass Flute Trill (Major 2nd)
Bass Flute Trill (Minor 2nd)

Oboe Legato (Extended)
Oboe Legato
Oboe Long
Oboe Multitongue
Oboe Short Marcato
Oboe Short Staccatissimo
Oboe Short Tenuto
Oboe Trill (Major 2nd)
Oboe Trill (Minor 2nd)

Oboes a3 Legato
Oboes a3 Long
Oboes a3 Multitongue
Oboes a3 Short Marcato
Oboes a3 Short Staccatissimo
Oboes a3 Short Tenuto
Oboes a3 Trill (Major 2nd)
Oboes a3 Trill (Minor 2nd)

Cor Anglais Legato
Cor Anglais Long
Cor Anglais Short Marcato
Cor Anglais Short Staccatissimo
Cor Anglais Short Tenuto
Cor Anglais Trill (Major 2nd)
Cor Anglais Trill (Minor 2nd)

Clarinet Legato
Clarinet Long Flutter
Clarinet Long
Clarinet Multitongue
Clarinet Short Marcato
Clarinet Short Staccatissimo
Clarinet Short Tenuto
Clarinet Trill (Major 2nd)
Clarinet Trill (Minor 2nd)

Clarinets a3 Legato
Clarinets a3 Long Flutter
Clarinets a3 Long
Clarinets a3 Multitongue
Clarinets a3 Short Marcato
Clarinets a3 Short Staccatissimo
Clarinets a3 Short Tenuto
Clarinets a3 Trill (Major 2nd)
Clarinets a3 Trill (Minor 2nd)

Bass Clarinet Legato
Bass Clarinet Long Flutter
Bass Clarinet Long
Bass Clarinet Short Marcato
Bass Clarinet Short Staccatissimo
Bass Clarinet Trill (Major 2nd)
Bass Clarinet Trill (Minor 2nd)

Contrabass Clarinet Legato
Contrabass Clarinet Long Flutter
Contrabass Clarinet Long
Contrabass Clarinet Short Marcato
Contrabass Clarinet Short Staccatissimo
Contrabass Clarinet Trill (Major 2nd)
Contrabass Clarinet Trill (Minor 2nd)

Bassoon Legato
Bassoon Long Flutter
Bassoon Long
Bassoon Short Marcato
Bassoon Short Staccatissimo
Bassoon Short Tenuto
Bassoon Trill (Major 2nd)
Bassoon Trill (Minor 2nd)

Bassoons a3 Legato
Bassoons a3 Long Flutter
Bassoons a3 Long
Bassoons a3 Short Marcato
Bassoons a3 Short Staccatissimo
Bassoons a3 Short Tenuto
Bassoons a3 Trill (Major 2nd)
Bassoons a3 Trill (Minor 2nd)

Contrabassoon Legato
Contrabassoon Long Flutter
Contrabassoon Long
Contrabassoon Short Marcato
Contrabassoon Short Staccatissimo
Contrabassoon Trill (Major 2nd)
Contrabassoon Trill (Minor 2nd)

Horn Legato (Extended)
Horn Legato
Horn Long Cuivre
Horn Long Flutter
Horn Long Sfz
Horn Long
Horn Multitongue
Horn Short Marcato
Horn Short Staccatissimo
Horn Trill (Major 2nd)
Horn Trill (Minor 2nd)

Horns a4 Legato
Horns a4 Long Cuivre
Horns a4 Long Flutter
Horns a4 Long Sfz
Horns a4 Long
Horns a4 Multitongue
Horns a4 Short Marcato
Horns a4 Short Staccatissimo
Horns a4 Trill (Major 2nd)
Horns a4 Trill (Minor 2nd)

Trumpet Legato
Trumpet Long Cuivre
Trumpet Long Flutter
Trumpet Long Sfz
Trumpet Long
Trumpet Multitongue
Trumpet Short Marcato
Trumpet Short Staccatissimo
Trumpet Trill (Major 2nd)
Trumpet Trill (Minor 2nd)

Trumpets a2 Legato (Extended)
Trumpets a2 Legato
Trumpets a2 Long Cuivre
Trumpets a2 Long Flutter
Trumpets a2 Long Sfz
Trumpets a2 Long
Trumpets a2 Multitongue
Trumpets a2 Short Marcato
Trumpets a2 Short Staccatissimo
Trumpets a2 Trill (Major 2nd)
Trumpets a2 Trill (Minor 2nd)

Tenor Trombone Legato
Tenor Trombone Long Cuivre
Tenor Trombone Long Flutter
Tenor Trombone Long Sfz
Tenor Trombone Long
Tenor Trombone Multitongue
Tenor Trombone Short Marcato
Tenor Trombone Short Staccatissimo

Tenor Trombones a3 Legato
Tenor Trombones a3 Long Cuivre
Tenor Trombones a3 Long Flutter
Tenor Trombones a3 Long Sfz
Tenor Trombones a3 Long
Tenor Trombones a3 Multitongue
Tenor Trombones a3 Short Marcato
Tenor Trombones a3 Short Staccatissimo

Bass Trombones a2 Legato
Bass Trombones a2 Long Cuivre
Bass Trombones a2 Long Flutter
Bass Trombones a2 Long Sfz
Bass Trombones a2 Long
Bass Trombones a2 Multitongue
Bass Trombones a2 Short Marcato
Bass Trombones a2 Short Staccatissimo

Contrabass Trombone Legato
Contrabass Trombone Long Cuivre
Contrabass Trombone Long Sfz
Contrabass Trombone Long
Contrabass Trombone Short Marcato
Contrabass Trombone Short Staccatissimo

Tuba Legato
Tuba Long Cuivre
Tuba Long Flutter
Tuba Long Sfz
Tuba Long
Tuba Multitongue
Tuba Short Marcato
Tuba Short Staccatissimo

Contrabass Tuba Legato
Contrabass Tuba Long Cuivre
Contrabass Tuba Long Sfz
Contrabass Tuba Long
Contrabass Tuba Short Marcato
Contrabass Tuba Short Staccatissimo


----------



## Zedcars

PRO PATCHES/ARTS PART 2:

Timpani Hotrods Hits Damped
Timpani Long Rolls Hotrods
Timpani Long Rolls Soft
Timpani Long Rolls
Timpani Short Hits Damped Soft
Timpani Short Hits Damped
Timpani Short Hits Discover
Timpani Short Hits Hotrods
Timpani Short Hits Soft
Timpani Short Hits Super Damped
Timpani Short Hits

Glockenspiel Long Trills
Glockenspiel Short Hits Discover
Glockenspiel Short Hits

Celeste Short Damped Medium
Celeste Short Damped
Celeste Short Sustained Discover
Celeste Short Sustained

Crotales Short Hits Bowed
Crotales Short Hits

Vibraphone Short Hits

Tubular bells Long Rolls
Tubular bells Short Hits Damped
Tubular bells Short Hits Discover
Tubular bells Short Hits

Xylophone Long Trills
Xylophone Short Hits Discover
Xylophone Short Hits

Marimba Long Trills
Marimba Short Hits Discover
Marimba Short Hits

Untuned Percussion Anvil
Untuned Percussion Bass Drum 1
Untuned Percussion Bass Drum 2
Untuned Percussion Cymbal
Untuned Percussion Hits
Untuned Percussion Military Drum
Untuned Percussion Piatti
Untuned Percussion Snare 1
Untuned Percussion Snare 2
Untuned Percussion Tam Tam
Untuned Percussion Tambourine
Untuned Percussion Tenor Drum
Untuned Percussion Toys
Untuned Percussion Triangle

Harp Long Bisbigliando Trem
Harp Short Damped Medium
Harp Short Damped
Harp Short Gliss
Harp Short Sustained Discover
Harp Short Sustained

Violins 1 Legato
Violins 1 Long CS
Violins 1 Long Flautando
Violins 1 Long Harmonics
Violins 1 Long Marcato Attack
Violins 1 Long Sul Pont
Violins 1 Long Sul Tasto
Violins 1 Long
Violins 1 Short Col Legno
Violins 1 Short Harmonics
Violins 1 Short Pizzicato Bartok
Violins 1 Short Pizzicato
Violins 1 Short Spiccato CS
Violins 1 Short Spiccato
Violins 1 Short Staccato
Violins 1 Tremolo CS
Violins 1 Tremolo Sul Pont
Violins 1 Tremolo
Violins 1 Trill (Major 2nd)
Violins 1 Trill (Minor 2nd)

Violin 1 Leader Legato
Violin 1 Leader Long CS
Violin 1 Leader Long Flautando
Violin 1 Leader Long Harmonics
Violin 1 Leader Long Sul Tasto
Violin 1 Leader Long
Violin 1 Leader Short Col Legno
Violin 1 Leader Short Harmonics
Violin 1 Leader Short Marcato
Violin 1 Leader Short Pizzicato Bartok
Violin 1 Leader Short Pizzicato
Violin 1 Leader Short Spiccato
Violin 1 Leader Short Staccato
Violin 1 Leader Tremolo
Violin 1 Leader Trill (Major 2nd)
Violin 1 Leader Trill (Minor 2nd)

Violins 2 Legato
Violins 2 Long CS
Violins 2 Long Flautando
Violins 2 Long Harmonics
Violins 2 Long Marcato Attack
Violins 2 Long Sul Pont
Violins 2 Long Sul Tasto
Violins 2 Long
Violins 2 Short Col Legno
Violins 2 Short Harmonics
Violins 2 Short Pizzicato Bartok
Violins 2 Short Pizzicato
Violins 2 Short Spiccato CS
Violins 2 Short Spiccato
Violins 2 Short Staccato
Violins 2 Tremolo CS
Violins 2 Tremolo Sul Pont
Violins 2 Tremolo
Violins 2 Trill (Major 2nd)
Violins 2 Trill (Minor 2nd)

Violin 2 Leader Legato
Violin 2 Leader Long CS
Violin 2 Leader Long Flautando
Violin 2 Leader Long Harmonics
Violin 2 Leader Long Sul Tasto
Violin 2 Leader Long
Violin 2 Leader Short Col Legno
Violin 2 Leader Short Harmonics
Violin 2 Leader Short Marcato
Violin 2 Leader Short Pizzicato Bartok
Violin 2 Leader Short Pizzicato
Violin 2 Leader Short Spiccato
Violin 2 Leader Short Staccato
Violin 2 Leader Tremolo
Violin 2 Leader Trill (Major 2nd)
Violin 2 Leader Trill (Minor 2nd)

Violas Legato
Violas Long CS
Violas Long Flautando
Violas Long Harmonics
Violas Long Marcato Attack
Violas Long Sul Pont
Violas Long Sul Tasto
Violas Long
Violas Short Col Legno
Violas Short Harmonics
Violas Short Pizzicato Bartok
Violas Short Pizzicato
Violas Short Spiccato CS
Violas Short Spiccato
Violas Short Staccato
Violas Tremolo CS
Violas Tremolo Sul Pont
Violas Tremolo
Violas Trill (Major 2nd)
Violas Trill (Minor 2nd)

Viola Leader Legato
Viola Leader Long CS
Viola Leader Long Flautando
Viola Leader Long Harmonics
Viola Leader Long Sul Tasto
Viola Leader Long
Viola Leader Short Col Legno
Viola Leader Short Harmonics
Viola Leader Short Marcato
Viola Leader Short Pizzicato Bartok
Viola Leader Short Pizzicato
Viola Leader Short Spiccato
Viola Leader Short Staccato
Viola Leader Tremolo
Viola Leader Trill (Major 2nd)
Viola Leader Trill (Minor 2nd)

Celli Legato
Celli Long CS
Celli Long Flautando
Celli Long Harmonics
Celli Long Marcato Attack
Celli Long Sul Pont
Celli Long Sul Tasto
Celli Long
Celli Short Col Legno
Celli Short Harmonics
Celli Short Pizzicato Bartok
Celli Short Pizzicato
Celli Short Spicc CS
Celli Short Spiccato
Celli Short Staccato
Celli Tremolo CS
Celli Tremolo Sul Pont
Celli Tremolo
Celli Trill (Major 2nd)
Celli Trill (Minor 2nd)

Celli Leader Legato
Celli Leader Long CS
Celli Leader Long Flautando
Celli Leader Long Harmonics
Celli Leader Long Sul Tasto
Celli Leader Long
Celli Leader Short Col Legno
Celli Leader Short Harmonics
Celli Leader Short Marcato
Celli Leader Short Pizzicato Bartok
Celli Leader Short Pizzicato
Celli Leader Short Spiccato
Celli Leader Short Staccato
Celli Leader Tremolo
Celli Leader Trill (Major 2nd)
Celli Leader Trill (Minor 2nd)

Basses Legato
Basses Long CS
Basses Long Flautando
Basses Long Harmonics
Basses Long Marcato Attack
Basses Long Sul Pont
Basses Long Sul Tasto
Basses Long
Basses Short Col Legno
Basses Short Harmonics
Basses Short Pizzicato Bartok
Basses Short Pizzicato
Basses Short Spiccato CS
Basses Short Spiccato
Basses Short Staccato
Basses Tremolo CS
Basses Tremolo Sul Pont
Basses Tremolo
Basses Trill (Major 2nd)
Basses Trill (Minor 2nd)

Bass Leader Legato
Bass Leader Long CS
Bass Leader Long Flautando
Bass Leader Long Harmonics
Bass Leader Long Sul Tasto
Bass Leader Long
Bass Leader Short Col Legno
Bass Leader Short Harmonics
Bass Leader Short Marcato
Bass Leader Short Pizzicato Bartok
Bass Leader Short Pizzicato
Bass Leader Short Spiccato
Bass Leader Short Staccato
Bass Leader Tremolo
Bass Leader Trill (Major 2nd)
Bass Leader Trill (Minor 2nd)


----------



## Virtuoso

RogiervG said:


> A core or discover version is not something BIG HUGE or SPECIAL (they never thought would happen in their carreers.. a deathbed project like thing)


It would be a huge deal to give away a flagship product, radically reshaping their business model. It fits with the whole ethos of the BBCSO project - getting everyone using the same product, all on the same 'page', able to collaborate freely.

If that's Christian's dream I can totally see him pitching it to the team (maybe after a long night of whisky) as 'Hey - why don't we make it free?! Get far more people on board being creative and then those who want to take it further can go on to buy the full package and get all the artics and mics.'


----------



## yiph2

Damn it, you ruined my prediction for 45 pages


----------



## Zero&One

@Zedcars So what's different? 
I've deleted 350GB of mics anyway.


----------



## yiph2

Zero&One said:


> @Zedcars So what's different?
> I've deleted 350GB of mics anyway.


I think no extra mics


----------



## Zedcars

Zero&One said:


> @Zedcars So what's different?
> I've deleted 350GB of mics anyway.


We'll find out more later I guess. I'm still downloading so don't want to open it yet.


----------



## John R Wilson

Zero&One said:


> @Zedcars So what's different?
> I've deleted 350GB of mics anyway.



Doesn't look any different in term of content between the main library and this new core one. So if that the case, how has the main library been improved?


----------



## Piotrek K.

Free for non-commercial use maybe?


----------



## Alex Fraser

yiph2 said:


> The problem with that for customers is that there is no crossgrade from this to a professional library


I think current BBCSO = professional.
It does have that "pro" mode after all.

We can all have the "Is BBCSO a professional library-or-not" debate another time!


----------



## Virtuoso

John R Wilson said:


> Doesn't look any different in term of content between the main library and this new core one. So if that the case, how has the main library been improved?


There's a Bass Flute!


----------



## korgscrew2000

Piotrek K. said:


> Free for non-commercial use maybe?



Pretty much all my music is non commercial


----------



## gpax

I get up at 3 am to take a pee, thinking I’ll just glance at VI-C for a couple of minutes before going back to sleep...


----------



## Zero&One

That moment you realise you bought a Pro version... but you use the Core version already.

This isn't going to dull my excitement for today's big release though.


----------



## redlester

I knew I should have got more chocolate in for today...


----------



## johe

I’ll repeat what I said on page 4 of this: if this is it (core version of BBCSO with all articulations and just one mic position) I‘ll be kinda pissed - cause I just bought the „Pro“ version while the core one might have been just enough for me...


----------



## yiph2

Alex Fraser said:


> I think current BBCSO = professional.
> It does have that "pro" mode after all.
> 
> We can all have the "Is BBCSO a professional library-or-not" debate another time!


I mean I don't think anyone uses BBCSO for films and stuff
WHen I meant professional I mean like SSO, people actually use that for professional


----------



## korgscrew2000

yiph2 said:


> I mean I don't think anyone uses BBCSO for films and stuff
> WHen I meant professional I mean like SSO, people actually use that for professional



Didn't Christian use the free felt piano on a major BBC drama?

These days PRO means, more articulations.


----------



## doctoremmet

Breaking. ANOTHER BBCSO tier confirmed: DOS Cover. A variant for those of us on slightly older hardware; there’s an 8 bit 512 Kilobytes version on the way!


----------



## yiph2

Well I mean that the BBCSO is kind of inconsistent based on reviews, like the horns is kind of unusable


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Maybe Discover is only 200 Mb because it’s in the cloud?


----------



## Alex Fraser

johe said:


> I’ll repeat what I said on page 4 of this: if this is it (core version of BBCSO with all articulations and just one mic position) I‘ll be kinda pissed - cause I just bought the „Pro“ version while the core one might have been just enough for me...


Yeah, I can see how that would annoy, seeing as a lot of folks only use 1 or 2 signals anyway.
On the other hand, I brought a new MacBook Pro a couple of weeks ago, and they dropped a new one this week. Things happen.


----------



## RogiervG

Virtuoso said:


> It would be a huge deal to give away a flagship product, radically reshaping their business model. It fits with the whole ethos of the BBCSO project - getting everyone using the same product, all on the same 'page', able to collaborate freely.
> 
> If that's Christian's dream I can totally see him pitching it to the team (maybe after a long night of whisky) as 'Hey - why don't we make it free?! Get far more people on board being creative and then those who want to take it further can go on to buy the full package and get all the artics and mics.'




Sure if it's completely free of charge now.. it would be a big thing.. but there is no clear indication it will be that at this point. That owner see this in the manager, doesn't mean it's free for everyone, including non owners.


----------



## johe

Alex Fraser said:


> Yeah, I can see how that would annoy, seeing as a lot of folks only use 1 or 2 signals anyway.
> On the other hand, I brought a new MacBook Pro a couple of weeks ago, and they dropped a new one this week. Things happen.



Ouch...same thing happened to me last year before they dropped the 16inch one, so I feel your pain. And I guess you‘re right, things happen. At least now I have the added flexibility all those mic positions offer, even if I don’t use them all of the time. A shame about ~500GB SSD space, though 😅


----------



## korgscrew2000

Alex Fraser said:


> Yeah, I can see how that would annoy, seeing as a lot of folks only use 1 or 2 signals anyway.
> On the other hand, I brought a new MacBook Pro a couple of weeks ago, and they dropped a new one this week. Things happen.



Typical, it's almost like they wait. I've been waiting to sell something on Ebay for a month or so and waiting for the £1 max final selling fees as the item is quite expensive. Anyway, got fed up of waiting and put it on ebay and it sold within a day. Guess what. The day after, ebay did a max £1 final selling fees week.


----------



## DivingInSpace

So, it is May 7 and nothing has changed yet. I am outraged.


----------



## RogiervG

i am going to unwatch this thread.. i want to be actually suprised when the *official* reveals are there... No fun in actual spoilers like screenshots etc....... it decreases the "looking forward to the conference/reveal program they have planned" feeling.. Like we all had waiting for Santa to drop by with presents... 

i hope it's somthing(s) I like in the end.... and something(s) actually BIG/HUGE etc....


----------



## Virtuoso

DivingInSpace said:


> So, it is May 7 and nothing has changed yet. I am outraged.


I changed my underwear when I heard the Bass Flute!


----------



## doctoremmet

Virtuoso said:


> I changed my underwear when I heard the Bass Flute!


The point being your underwear changed? Not really “deathbed level change” is it


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> Yeah, I can see how that would annoy, seeing as a lot of folks only use 1 or 2 signals anyway.
> On the other hand, I brought a new MacBook Pro a couple of weeks ago, and they dropped a new one this week. Things happen.



I agree they do.
But the laptop comparison would be:
They later released the _same_ laptop, without iCalc, iSpy, iPages, iDocs, and iStocks for half price.
But now call yours the MacBook Pro 'Professionals Edition'


----------



## korgscrew2000

RogiervG said:


> i am going to unwatch this thread.. i want to be actually suprised when the *official* reveals are there... No fun in actual spoilers like screenshots etc....... it decreases the "looking forward to the conference/reveal program they have planned" feeling.. Like we all had waiting for Santa to drop by with presents...
> 
> i hope it's somthing(s) I like in the end.... and something(s) actually BIG/HUGE etc....



Well, they shouldn't hype it up so much then fuck up the launch.

This is like your parents leaving the receipt for your xmas presents in your bedroom.


----------



## korgscrew2000

doctoremmet said:


> The point being your underwear changed? Not really “deathbed level change” is it



You shit yourself when you die, apparently.


----------



## Bansi

doctoremmet said:


> Breaking. ANOTHER BBCSO tier confirmed: DOS Cover. A variant for those of us on slightly older hardware; there’s an 8 bit 512 Kilobytes version on the way!


Will it be available for my commodore 64?


----------



## Zedcars

korgscrew2000 said:


> Well, they shouldn't hype it up so much then fuck up the launch.
> 
> This is like your parents leaving the receipt for your xmas presents in your bedroom.


Yeah, it's a bit odd the downloads were available today before the official announcement. I wonder why they did that? Can't have been a mistake though surely.


----------



## RogiervG

Zedcars said:


> Yeah, it's a bit odd the downloads were available today before the official announcement. I wonder why they did that? Can't have been a mistake though surely.


again i doubt the announcement is THAT.. because it would be pointless... and defeats the presentation/reveal this evening (UK time).
And a fuck up? no, if they released it.. it's intentionally.. otherwise they would have withdrawn those immediately from the manager.. (undoing).

but.. note to self: stop watching this thread! gosh.......


----------



## doctoremmet

Bansi said:


> Will it be available for my commodore 64?


C=64, as well as ZX Spectrum 48k versions are expected soon. The first one will be called DisketteCover and the latter BBCSO Cassette Edition. Of course, given the special relationship between the BBC and Acorn Computers a Special Edition cassette will be made available for the Acorn, called BBCSO “Elite”


----------



## Zero&One

Instagram post from a former member, he's just opened the SA App.


----------



## Zedcars

Zero&One said:


> Instagram post from a former member, he's just opened the SA App.


I’d imagine he’s feeling a bit deflated.


----------



## redlester

There's a countdown clock on the Spitfire homepage which currently says 2:45 to go, which would be 3pm?

I thought it was supposed to be 4pm. Have they not set their web server to British Summer Time? Or has it moved forwards?


----------



## RogiervG

redlester said:


> There's a countdown clock on the Spitfire homepage which currently says 2:45 to go, which would be 3pm?
> 
> I thought it was supposed to be 4pm. Have they not set their web server to British Summer Time? Or has it moved forwards?




Yes something is wrong.. CH said 17:00 BST (GMT+1), which is 18:00 hours CEST/GMT+2 (my timezone) or 04:00 PST (last one i am not very sure of.. but according to online converters it is)

That further away than 2:27 hours away...


----------



## idematoa




----------



## yiph2

RogiervG said:


> Yes something is wrong.. CH said 17:00 BST (GMT+1), which is 18:00 hours CEST/GMT+2 (my timezone) or 04:00 PST (last one i am not very sure of.. but according to online converters it is)
> 
> That further away than 2:27 hours away...


No no no, 17:00 BST is for Friday
19:00 BST is the video with CH and PT, but the release according to Insta is 16:00 BST
But the Spitfire website one is different to Insta...


----------



## RogiervG

yiph2 said:


> No no no, 17:00 BST is for Friday
> 19:00 BST is the video with CH and PT, but the release according to Insta is 16:00 BST
> But the Spitfire website one is different to Insta...



ok i stand corrected.
anyway i mailed spitfire about the clock differences... so we will see.. . 

1900bst = eight o clock this evening for me... perfect


----------



## Go To 11

yiph2 said:


> No no no, 17:00 BST is for Friday
> 19:00 BST is the video with CH and PT, but the release according to Insta is 16:00 BST
> But the Spitfire website one is different to Insta...


Weird their releases are usually 5pm UK time, but they shifted it to 4pm as UK is summer time now? Except plot twist the website says 3pm. But double plot twist they updated BBCSO via their own plugin at 9am to confuse us all anyway.


----------



## yiph2

19:00 BST not perfect to me  
That's 2:00am for me...


----------



## RogiervG

yiph2 said:


> 19:00 BST not perfect to me
> That's 2:00am for me...



Awww poor you 
Luckily there are recordings haha


----------



## Dan

idematoa said:


>




If we look at the names of the video files that are displayed near the lower edge of the left screen, we can see a very suspicious file name.... looks like "BBCS..." to me

EDIT: Yeeeees, I know by now that this is not really new information. Should have followed the thread more closely...


----------



## korgscrew2000

Go To 11 said:


> Weird their releases are usually 5pm UK time, but they shifted it to 4pm as UK is summer time now? Except plot twist the website says 3pm. But double plot twist they updated BBCSO via their own plugin at 9am to confuse us all anyway.



Proper mind melter.


----------



## doctoremmet

Dan said:


> looks like "BBCS..."


Quelle surprise


----------



## korgscrew2000

Dan said:


> If we look at the names of the video files that are displayed near the lower edge of the left screen, we can see a very suspicious file name.... looks like "BBCS..." to me



It certainly is BBCSO, well something for today anyway. There is a full screenshot somewhere in this thread.


----------



## redlester

Installer app has now been updated again to 3.2.3

I think there are glitches with it, since it went to 3.2.2 it's had a red exclamation against Phobos, even though I have repaired it and it actually runs perfectly normally. Also, since the update of BBC this morning the installer has asked me to Optimise it three seperate times now.


----------



## Dan

korgscrew2000 said:


> It certainly is BBCSO, well something for today anyway. There is a full screenshot somewhere in this thread.



Oh well, I thought I had cracked the case! Should have studied those 48 pages more closely...


----------



## peladio

yiph2 said:


> Hopefully it's about how they will change their marketing



They would be insane to change it and this thread is the best proof..no one else generates this amount of fanboyism. I own a lot of their products, some are good, some aren't..but they are master marketers even when their products are meh..

But this thread saddens me to be honest, there are so many quality developers that don't receive 5% of attention Spitfire do and they should..


----------



## Zedcars

Do you think we’ll hit 1K posts before they actually announce the thing(s)?


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Dan said:


> If we look at the names of the video files that are displayed near the lower edge of the left screen, we can see a very suspicious file name.... looks like "BBCS..." to me


Now that is some real CSI approach right there!!
My gosh man, are you a composer or an NSA agent 

Wonder if this is in response to the EW Hollywood Opus coming in the Fall with an Orchestrator?
Seems like some sort of Orchestrator/Arrangement assistant to me...


----------



## korgscrew2000

Zedcars said:


> Do you think we’ll hit 1K posts before they actually announce the thing(s)?



Easy. I said 35 pages when all this first started.


----------



## korgscrew2000

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Now that is some real CSI approach right there!!
> My gosh man, are you a composer or an NSA agent
> 
> Wonder if this is in response to the EW Hollywood Opus coming in the Fall with an Orchestrator?
> Seems like some sort of Orchetrator/Arrangement assistant to me...


----------



## Eptesicus

peladio said:


> They would be insane to change it and this thread is the best proof..no one else generates this amount of fanboyism. I own a lot of their products, some are good, some aren't..but they are master marketers even when their products are meh..
> 
> But this thread saddens me to be honest, there are so many quality developers that don't receive 5% of attention Spitfire do and they should..



There is nothing clever or masterful about advertising everything you do as the second coming of Jesus.


----------



## filipjonathan

Dan said:


> If we look at the names of the video files that are displayed near the lower edge of the left screen, we can see a very suspicious file name.... looks like "BBCS..." to me


Haha yall are crazy! I feel like we're all in an escape the room challenge LOL


----------



## synkrotron

I can only hope that all this shenanigans has somehow managed to break stuff and then when the dust has settled it will be fixed in the next couple of days.

The SA app is now at 3.2.3 (was 3.2.1 the other day and updated to 3.2.3 earlier this morning). My EWC is broken and I'm sure some of my LABS stuff is too (yeah, I know, that's free but it should still work).

Support are happy to suggest it is something wrong with my presets folder for some reason.

Not totally happy with @Spitfire Team at the moment.

I've checked the Kontakt stuff and that seems okay. Just the Spitfire Player.

Apologies for spamming my drivel here but this is where the action is at right now.

I'll get me coat


----------



## peladio

Eptesicus said:


> There is nothing clever or masterful about advertising everything you do as the second coming of Jesus.



Millions on their bank accounts disagree..


----------



## Alex Fraser

peladio said:


> Millions on their bank accounts disagree..


Yep. I don't think SF marketing differs from anyone else. The issue is people get expectations lodged in the brain that are off-base.


----------



## Brasart

I'm playing with the BBCSO Discover stuff, it's pretty neat, would have dreamed of having this for free (?) or 29€ (?) back when I first started making music with a DAW 8 years ago


----------



## redlester

synkrotron said:


> I can only hope that all this shenanigans has somehow managed to break stuff and then when the dust has settled it will be fixed in the next couple of days.
> 
> The SA app is now at 3.2.3 (was 3.2.1 the other day and updated to 3.2.3 earlier this morning). My EWC is broken and I'm sure some of my LABS stuff is too (yeah, I know, that's free but it should still work).
> 
> Support are happy to suggest it is something wrong with my presets folder for some reason.
> 
> Not totally happy with @Spitfire Team at the moment.
> 
> I've checked the Kontakt stuff and that seems okay. Just the Spitfire Player.
> 
> Apologies for spamming my drivel here but this is where the action is at right now.
> 
> I'll get me coat



Are you sure it's broken? See my post above about Phobos - the installer app says it's broken, but it's actually not.


----------



## Brasart

redlester said:


> Are you sure it's broken? See my post above about Phobos - the installer app says it's broken, but it's actually not.



Same here, got a red exclamation mark but Phobos is doing just fine, will prob go away on its own, no need to panic


----------



## Eptesicus

peladio said:


> Millions on their bank accounts disagree..



Who says it is their marketing doing that? For all you know, their marketing my be putting people off and they could have even more millions..


----------



## redlester

Eptesicus said:


> Who says it is their marketing doing that? For all you know, their marketing my be putting people off and they could have even more millions..



Threads with 1000 posts in the space of a week before anyone knows what the product is suggest their marketing is pretty much spot on.


----------



## synkrotron

redlester said:


> Are you sure it's broken? See my post above about Phobos - the installer app says it's broken, but it's actually not.



A couple of things...

Regarding Eric's choir, there are two parts to that, separate VST3i, one for the choir and one for the evo.

If I do the repair it fixes that one but breaks the other. And in my DAW, one will work and the other says that is is broken. Fix the broken one, the other one breaks. I can probably do without the Evo but at some point in the near future I would like all to work as intended.

Regarding the Alev Lenz library (I posted about that in the tech support forum) some presets just don't work at all... zero voices when playing notes.

And LABS... Some notes now click when played on some of the presets, which makes me wonder if there are other issues too. So much stuff to check.

The Alev Lenz problem started last week, although I hadn't used it for a time.

The EWC problem only started this morning after the SA app was updated to 3.2.2 and now 3.2.3

I'm just going to have to get on with some other stuff in the meantime...

cheers

andy


----------



## doctoremmet

synkrotron said:


> Regarding the Alev Lenz library (I posted about that in the tech support forum) some presets just don't work at all... zero voices when playing notes.


@SpitfireSupport Confirming this bug!


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

Any chance anyone with the update could possibly show us a few more pics of the Discovery GUI? Would love to see!


----------



## Mornats

Any other developer: Something is coming soon. VI-Control: oh cool we'll wait and see what it is.

Spitfire: Something is coming soon. VI-Control: I hate Spitfire, their marketing is the work of the devil. They say it's something big so it MUST be a minor update to SSO.

Literally. Every. Single. Time.


----------



## korgscrew2000

Mornats said:


> Any other developer: Something is coming soon. VI-Control: oh cool we'll wait and see what it is.
> 
> Spitfire: Something is coming soon. VI-Control: I hate Spitfire, their marketing is the work of the devil. They say it's something big so it MUST be a minor update to SSO.
> 
> Literally. Every. Single. Time.



To be fair, they are usually right.


----------



## Brasart

EasterIslandStatue said:


> Any chance anyone with the update could possibly show us a few more pics of the Discovery GUI? Would love to see!



Discovery is loaded from the main BBC plugin, you can switch between instances instantly from the top
It loads EVERYTHING at 210mb, and you can switch between every instrument/articulation instantly.

And you switch by clicking on those coloured sections you see on the GUI.

I think it's a new mic blend, close to Mix1 but I think it might sound bigger and more wet (I haven't done any comparison though).

You have control over expression, dynamics, reverb.

It's pretty cool, I don't want to jump the gun but I can see why they're so excited, if free or very low priced this insanely small and effective orchestral ensemble would bring so much value alongside any entry library (Albions, Originals... etc)
It's also a great quick sketching tool.


----------



## Eptesicus

redlester said:


> Threads with 1000 posts in the space of a week before anyone knows what the product is suggest their marketing is pretty much spot on.



Correlation does not equal causation.

Who is to say we wouldn't be discussing it as much if the silly "zomg game changer, new era, everything changes" taglines weren't used.

*in before the cliche of "all publicity is good publicity is used"


----------



## synkrotron

doctoremmet said:


> @SpitfireSupport Confirming this bug!



Not yet. They are saying the problem is at my end.


----------



## doctoremmet

synkrotron said:


> Not yet. They are saying the problem is at my end.


Well I have it as well. So the confirmation was mine.


----------



## Eptesicus

Mornats said:


> Any other developer: Something is coming soon. VI-Control: oh cool we'll wait and see what it is.
> 
> Spitfire: Something is coming soon. VI-Control: I hate Spitfire, their marketing is the work of the devil. They say it's something big so it MUST be a minor update to SSO.
> 
> Literally. Every. Single. Time.



Thats just misrepresenting the argument being made. Its the use of terms that imply a revolutionary new thing, every.damn.time.


----------



## doctoremmet

Eptesicus said:


> Its the use of terms that imply a revolutionary new thing, every.damn.time.


To be honest though, the reactions here with 40+ page threads make it seem WAY bigger than the actual three tweets, two threads and the occasional instagram picture. The whole reason social media exist, basically.

I will now put a Radiohead record on: 


“You do it to yourself, you do.”

Edit: Thom York strikes me as a typical Spitfire user


----------



## Eptesicus

doctoremmet said:


> To be honest though, the reactions here with 40+ page threads make it seem WAY bigger than the actual three tweets, two threads and the occasional instagram picture. The whole reason social media exist, basically.
> 
> I will now put a Radiohead record on:
> 
> 
> “You do it to yourself, you do.”




My issue is more to do with language and its meaning. It isn't just Spitfire. This sort of thing and the overuse of superlatives is done everywhere but it devalues things. If everything is amazing, nothing is. If everything is a game changer, no games get changed.


----------



## Brasart

Eptesicus said:


> Thats just misrepresenting the argument being made. Its the use of terms that imply a revolutionary new thing, every.damn.time.



This isn't true for the majority of what they release, and when they do it's because it actually brings something fantastic to the table?
I honestly don't understand the vitriol over marketing _(and the sudden surge of pro marketers on this forum)_, Spitfire makes extremely elegant visuals and presentation, they never spam you with emails or overload socials with announcements, they have the most comprehensive and extensive walkthroughs of every publisher while not trying to hide potential shortcomings of their librairies in them.

That's not even counting the fact that like 80% of what they share is free educational ressources, like come on.


----------



## zolhof

johe said:


> I’ll repeat what I said on page 4 of this: if this is it (core version of BBCSO with all articulations and just one mic position) I‘ll be kinda pissed - cause I just bought the „Pro“ version while the core one might have been just enough for me...



Don't feel bad. The extra 19 microphones are totally worthy of the Pro tag. You can drastically change not only the space but also the character of the instruments by fiddling with the mic positions. If you don't have enough RAM, just the spill microphones alone will add depth to your mockups that no other library can do out of the box.

There is a reason why Spitfire captured the sound of Maida Vale with 20 different microphones. Use them!


----------



## synkrotron

doctoremmet said:


> Well I have it as well. So the confirmation was mine.



Ah, right, thanks for that  

Did you watch my video that I posted in the tech support forum? It's a long ten minutes but I've put time stamps in the description so you can jump to the broken presets.

@SpitfireSupport report that everything is fine at their end/

cheers

andy


----------



## Mornats

Eptesicus said:


> Thats just misrepresenting the argument being made. Its the use of terms that imply a revolutionary new thing, every.damn.time.


I see your point, but I guess it's all about perspective. From our point of view, it's just another sample library (probably) but to Spitfire it's a major thing that they've spent months or longer on. Game changer for them but not for us maybe? But my original point stands. Only Spitfire gets this amount of vitriol.


----------



## redlester

Eptesicus said:


> Correlation does not equal causation.
> 
> Who is to say we wouldn't be discussing it as much if the silly "zomg game changer, new era, everything changes" taglines weren't used.
> 
> *in before the cliche of "all publicity is good publicity is used"



May be, but my argument is not about the tag lines (which don't really bother me but I do know they incense some people) its about the fact that I'm almost certain they are more than happy with how their marketing performs.


----------



## RogiervG

Brasart said:


> Discovery is loaded from the main BBC plugin, you can switch between instances instantly from the top
> It loads EVERYTHING at 210mb, and you can switch between every instrument/articulation instantly.
> 
> And you switch by clicking on those coloured sections you see on the GUI.
> 
> I think it's a new mic blend, close to Mix1 but I think it might sound bigger and more wet (I haven't done any comparison though).
> 
> You have control over expression, dynamics, reverb.
> 
> It's pretty cool, I don't want to jump the gun but I can see why they're so excited, if free or very low priced this insanely small and effective orchestral ensemble would bring so much value alongside any entry library (Albions, Originals... etc)
> It's also a great quick sketching tool.




OUCH.. no control over sound or harmonies... a true composer wants control, especially the new composers, who learn from books etc.. should be able to do individual solos AND section ensembles, not like albion, mixed ensembles containing multiple different instruments.
That is a big step back for it's target audience... BBCSO is not aimed as sketching tool... but learning and cooperative tool... hence the big list of solo AND ensemble patches... 

Unless Discover is just an addon for BBCSO like MASSE is for SSO


----------



## Zedcars

Don't forget a lot of people are going stir crazy stuck at home during the lockdown and threads like this are a great way to let off steam and have fun. I'd say around 70+% of posts in this thread are non-serious (I'm guilty of quite a few myself).


----------



## Eptesicus

Brasart said:


> This isn't true for the majority of what they release, and when they do it's because it actually brings something fantastic to the table?
> I honestly don't understand the vitriol over marketing _(and the sudden surge of pro marketers on this forum)_, Spitfire makes extremely elegant visuals and presentation, they never spam you with emails, they have the most comprehensive and extensive walkthroughs of every publisher while not trying to hide potential shortcomings of they librairies in them.
> 
> That's not even counting the fact that like 80% of what they share is free educational ressources, like come on.



Why are you conflating everything else they do with their marketing? They do some fantastic things, as you say.

I'm simply saying I hate the way they market things, that is all. Its cheap, tedious and makes me roll my eyes. 

I


----------



## Brasart

RogiervG said:


> OUCH.. no control over sound or harmonies... a true composer wants control, especially the new composers, who learn from books etc.. should be able to do individual solos AND section ensembles, not like albion, mixed ensembles containing multiple different instruments.
> That is a big step back for it's target audience... BBCSO is not aimed as sketching tool... but learning and cooperative tool... hence the big list of solo AND ensemble patches...
> 
> Unless Discover is just an addon for BBCSO like MASSE is for SSO



Dude, it's 210mb and most likely free or very low priced; what the hell are you complaining about?


----------



## yiph2

RogiervG said:


> OUCH.. no control over sound or harmonies... a true composer wants control, especially the new composers, who learn from books etc.. should be able to do individual solos AND section ensembles, not like albion, mixed ensembles containing multiple different instruments.
> That is a big step back for it's target audience... BBCSO is not aimed as sketching tool... but learning and cooperative tool... hence the big list of solo AND ensemble patches...
> 
> Unless Discover is just an addon for BBCSO like MASSE is for SSO


Seriously? No business can afford creating a sound library that has ensemble + solo for free...
If you want to learn orchestration just hold off from libraries and use the stock DAW sounds...


----------



## Virtuoso

There's a big difference in quality between the Discover patches and the Core/Pro ones. Taking Horns a4 as an example, there is only one dynamic layer and you can clearly hear the multisample points - roughly every 6 notes. Release samples are noticeable. I'm wondering if they did fit the entire orchestra into 200MB after all? All patches load (instantly, as @Brasart mentioned above) to almost exactly the same memory size - from 219MB for the Celli to 213MB for the Harp/Celeste.


----------



## RogiervG

Brasart said:


> Dude, it's 210mb and most likely free or very low priced; what the hell are you complaining about? :-D




because knowing SF marketing reputation.. .i am very afraid this might be the big HUGE thing...
which isn't HUGE at all... not by a long shot....  and would mean again a huge disappointment like several previous marketing runs...


I HOPE ITS MORE THAN A SNIPPIT/SPINOFF (SF did you read this? hello?)


----------



## doctoremmet

Eptesicus said:


> My issue is more to do with language and its meaning. It isn't just Spitfire. This sort of thing and the overuse of superlatives is done everywhere but it devalues things. If everything is amazing, nothing is. If everything is a game changer, no games get changed.


Fair point. Mine was: don’t let it bother you too much. Threads like this likely work as echo chambers a bit


----------



## RogiervG

yiph2 said:


> Seriously? No business can afford creating a sound library that has ensemble + solo for free...
> If you want to learn orchestration just hold off from libraries and use the stock DAW sounds...



You are all talking about free.. there is no proof for that... and knowing spitfire it will cost 200 at least.
Yes, it's free for existing customers, like it appears to be, but that doesn't mean it's for new potential customers.

I see it as an addon.. for BBCSO, Like MASSE is for SSO.


Still this isn't anything BIG/HUGE etc.. i am expecting way bigger news and or product.
BUt wait.. he said there are two things.. and requires two videos...
so maybe discover is one... and the really big thing is in video two (Paul's video)..


----------



## filipjonathan

Virtuoso said:


> There's a big difference in quality between the Discover patches and the Core/Pro ones. Taking Horns a4 as an example, there is only one dynamic layer and you can clearly hear the multisample points - roughly every 6 notes. Release samples are noticeable. I'm wondering if they did fit the entire orchestra into 200MB after all? All patches load (instantly, as @Brasart mentioned above) to almost exactly the same memory size - from 219MB for the Celli to 213MB for the Harp/Celeste.


Well that's a bit disappointing...


----------



## ism

Eptesicus said:


> . If everything is amazing, nothing is. If everything is a game changer, no games get changed.



But if ever game changer has to assume that everyone's play the same game in order for it to be game changing, it's just as reductive. 

There are lots of libraries that aren't game changing for me, but may be for others. But I have lots that genuinely are game changing, for instance 

Tundra - Game changing 
LCO - game changing
Joshua Bell Violin - game changing 
OACE - game changing 
Orchestral Swarm - game change
Time Micro - maybe not game changing, bit it works so well with the game changed by the above that I think it's at least game tweaking. Exact that a tweak is a kind of change. So technically that counts as game change doesn't it?


Again, perhaps this invokes the phrase "game changing" more in the sense of Wittgenstein's notion of "language games" somehow applied to the musical language of unfolding aesthetic spaces than in does the dominant silicon valley sense of "game changing" as "the total disruption of the business models of the status quo".

But if we have to choose Wittgenstein vs Silicon Valley, I say we go with Wittgenstein.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

This _is _something new. It is EZOrchestra.
This could be Spitfire's very first reach towards the consumer market. It's a _training _virtual instrument.
I don't think this is necessarily aimed at the people on this forum, unless there's somebody here who needs to be told that the violins are the focal point of the orchestra.






I don't think this will be free. As they sell strings, brass, woods, and percussion for 29 each, I think this will be at least 99. And maybe a discount on the intro price.


----------



## Brasart

RogiervG said:


> You are all talking about free.. there is no proof for that... and knowing spitfire it will cost 200 at least.
> Yes, it's free for existing customers, like it appears to be, but that doesn't mean it's for new potential customers.
> 
> I see it as an addon.. for BBCSO, Like MASSE is for SSO.
> 
> 
> Still this isn't anything BIG/HUGE etc.. i am expecting way bigger news and or product.
> BUt wait.. he said there are two things.. and requires two videos...
> so maybe discover is one... and the really big thing is in video two (Paul's video)..



If you've read the post you've quoted, you'd have noted that no one says it's definitively free: I said it might be free or very low priced, seeing what's inside, that it's the first of 3 BBCSO upgrade paths and looking at the general Sptifire entry pricing (29€ Originals, free LABS).

It also has nothing to do with MASSE, as in MASSE was a kind of "multi" tool to use alongside your others librairies.
This is an entry point (which I don't see why you would be using alongside more evolved BBCSO upgrades).

This might not be HUGE for you, a "true composer" as you've humbly said, but it will be HUGE for people who are just starting out in the field.


----------



## Virtuoso

Virtuoso said:


> There's a big difference in quality between the Discover patches and the Core/Pro ones. Taking Horns a4 as an example, there is only one dynamic layer and you can clearly hear the multisample points - roughly every 6 notes. Release samples are noticeable.


Example of the above attached.


----------



## Technostica

You’ve all fallen for it.
I’ve never seen so many red herrings and pastel shaded trouts being devoured so readily. I’d be surprised if there isn’t a special Spitfire Audio branded loaf being baked right now so they can hand out bread with the fish at the anointed hour.
Although God alone seemingly knows what that time is as it apparently wasn’t passed on to St Paul or The Rev Henson of The Church of Spitting Fire.

The actual announcement will be about the announcement and not a new library.
Spitfire have developed a Dolby Atmos streaming App for broadcasting which supports up to 128 channels.
From now on they are going to focus on hyping products that don’t even exist using Dolby Atmos followed shortly by VR.
The hype will be the product so they can really push the boat out with the superlatives as they don’t have to back it up at all.
Is this new strategy due to lock-down fever, one too many bags of minstrels or pure genius?
The first correct answer sent to a VR post code which is embedded in the 128 channel stream will receive either a SA library of choice or 128 bags of minstrels.

(Nurse, can you get me an extra pillow please and another box of minstrels).


----------



## RogiervG

Brasart said:


> It also has nothing to do with MASSE, as in MASSE was a kind of "multi" tool to use alongside your others librairies.
> This is an entry point (which I don't see why you would be using alongside more evolved BBCSO upgrades).
> 
> This might not be HUGE for you, a "true composer" as you've humbly said, but it will be HUGE for people who are just starting out in the field.




i Disagree: it has all to do with MASSE in regard.. it's a tool alongside your BBCSO. e.g. for quick sketching, not needing to load the big sample patches.. or for laptop usage on the go. etc.

I disagree it will be huge for people starting out.. ensemble only libraries are plentyfull in the low priceranges, nothing special or HUGE as CH himself said. Thay already have LABS which contains quite good "beginner" happy sounds and then there is the 29 dollar libs they also have.
and the labs is constantly filling with newer patches/samples. Ongoing process..
And it would rival Albion series, in the sense of sound/patches and usecases. Only a price could make some difference.. but then again, it would make albion sold less in contrast, because beginners will jump onto the cheapest offering, if in essence both the expensive and cheap products do ultimately the same thing. (ensembles ensemles ensembles)

Also they said they are doing something that they would never have imagined to pull off in their careers.. he even called it a deathbed project of some sorts...

well doing a spinoff, very lightweight.. of exisiting samples... is not even fitting what CH said by a long shot.


----------



## redlester

The timing on the web site is still wrong. It says right now that it's all about to change in 24 minutes!


----------



## yiph2

RogiervG said:


> You are all talking about free.. there is no proof for that... and knowing spitfire it will cost 200 at least.
> Yes, it's free for existing customers, like it appears to be, but that doesn't mean it's for new potential customers.
> 
> I see it as an addon.. for BBCSO, Like MASSE is for SSO.
> 
> 
> Still this isn't anything BIG/HUGE etc.. i am expecting way bigger news and or product.
> BUt wait.. he said there are two things.. and requires two videos...
> so maybe discover is one... and the really big thing is in video two (Paul's video)..


But you said you wanted it to be free not me


----------



## Zedcars

What no fanfare, no belly dancing showgirls, no champagne popping? 1K just shot by and the poor fella never got a mention...


----------



## Tilt & Flow

I'm wondering/hoping this new version will make into Staffpad. THAT would be game changing - for me.


----------



## Zedcars

redlester said:


> The timing on the web site is still wrong. It says right now that it's all about to change in 24 minutes!


Better get your popcorn ready then lol


----------



## christianhenson

Close... but not quite there. What is actually being announced is very genuinely ... no I'm not going to say game changer, I'm not going to say revolutionary... I'm going to say its really really bloody nice.... with maybe a small pyrrhic miracle for us media composers.... I'm going to be live on chat during my premiere of Paul and my sidebar (a thing we decided to do to answer questions we think would be asked here) on my youtube channel at 19.00BST come and hurl abuse at me there... I'll be 4 bottles of beer deep.


----------



## RogiervG

christianhenson said:


> Close... but not quite there. What is actually being announced is very genuinely ... no I'm not going to say game changer, I'm not going to say revolutionary... I'm going to say its really really bloody nice.... with maybe a small pyrrhic miracle for us media composers.... I'm going to be live on chat during my premiere of Paul and my sidebar (a thing we decided to do to answer questions we think would be asked here) on my youtube channel at 19.00BST come and hurl abuse at me there... I'll be 4 bottles of beer deep.



dear Chris... the time on the website? the time you mention in your video and the one you mention here... are they all in alignment with actual times for each step into the planned revealparty? 

I ask because i get quite confused with three different times.. and no clear schedule where they all fit in.


----------



## GingerMaestro

christianhenson said:


> Close... but not quite there. What is actually being announced is very genuinely ... no I'm not going to say game changer, I'm not going to say revolutionary... I'm going to say its really really bloody nice.... with maybe a small pyrrhic miracle for us media composers.... I'm going to be live on chat during my premiere of Paul and my sidebar (a thing we decided to do to answer questions we think would be asked here) on my youtube channel at 19.00BST come and hurl abuse at me there... I'll be 4 bottles of beer deep.


@christianhenson I'm really excited for this and it's great to have a focus and a hobby to escape from strain of this uncertain time. Thanks so much for all the youtube videos and entertainment you are providing. Most enjoyable and educational.

Will these new releases be available to buy today, or will we have to wait. I'm actually getting super fast internet installed today in anticipation. Stay Safe and Thank you. From English Man in New York !


----------



## korgscrew2000

christianhenson said:


> Close... but not quite there. What is actually being announced is very genuinely ... no I'm not going to say game changer, I'm not going to say revolutionary... I'm going to say its really really bloody nice.... with maybe a small pyrrhic miracle for us media composers.... I'm going to be live on chat during my premiere of Paul and my sidebar (a thing we decided to do to answer questions we think would be asked here) on my youtube channel at 19.00BST come and hurl abuse at me there... I'll be 4 bottles of beer deep.



What time is this launching? You said 4pm, the website says 15 mins away.


----------



## yiph2

korgscrew2000 said:


> What time is this launching? You said 4pm, the website says 15 mins away.


No, website says 15 minutes, Instagram says 4pm, Christian says 7pm


----------



## doctoremmet

christianhenson said:


> no I'm not going to say game changer, I'm not going to say revolutionary...


Hahaha no please don’t. People’d be all upset, like that time you and HBO did a very cool contest and people found stuff to get upset about 

Kidding aside. Very cool of you to stop by.


----------



## Alex Fraser

BUT I WANTED GAME CHANGING!
<sets Mac on fire>


----------



## korgscrew2000

yiph2 said:


> No, website says 15 minutes, Instagram says 4pm, Christian says 7pm



7pm is the vlog thing, not the launch.


----------



## cqd

BBC Labs


----------



## synkrotron

less than eight minutes to go......


----------



## Will Wilson




----------



## Igorianych

Hm...

I think the last time I felt this before the presentation of the Iphone


----------



## synkrotron

site will crash with all the F5's going down.......


----------



## Sapphire

Will Wilson said:


>


----------



## korgscrew2000

Nothing changed...


----------



## synkrotron

timer says zero hour... nothing coming soon it seems...


----------



## platixzhang

the countdown is now negative however nothing happened


----------



## Zedcars

It's on zero...nothing's happening...is it?


----------



## stigc56

Nothing!!


----------



## filipjonathan

korgscrew2000 said:


> Nothing changed...


Maybe it's stuck on oo:oo:oo


----------



## Simeon

Here we go!!!


----------



## Sapphire

korgscrew2000 said:


> Nothing changed...


The counter changed. It's all zeros now.


----------



## Zedcars




----------



## Alex Fraser

Web guy stuck on the loo?


----------



## doctoremmet

synkrotron said:


> site will crash with all the F5's going down.......


Nothing..,.. happened?


----------



## gohrev

hahaha 

I work in the tech industry, and if there is one thing you learn over time, it's to never use count downs. Rough estimations like "Q3" or "late 2020" serve you better than getting people to scrutinise every single hour of your self-imposed 'Day of Reckoning'.

Rule of thumb: Spread the word right after your shipped.


----------



## gst98

I don't feel any different...


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

What's this new product about?


----------



## Alex Fraser

It's like that doomsday cult I joined all over again..


----------



## Simeon

Or maybe not


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

Reckon they didn't correct the countdown clock to BST and is GMT, so think we're waiting another hour people


----------



## Stringtree

This was so worth the wait. Now I can go about my day.


----------



## Will Wilson

Hey Spitfire

php artisan cache:clear


----------



## SZK-Max

No update come...


----------



## vdk-john

Keep refreshing they're updating the BBC SO manual on the website


----------



## babylonwaves

can't you feel it? it's changing already ...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

The flux capacitor must be f**ked.


----------



## korgscrew2000

Alex Fraser said:


> It's like that doomsday cult I joined all over again..



How's that going for you?


----------



## doctoremmet

Wait...
..
..
..
..




..
..
What if it’s......a MORSE CODE!!!


----------



## Jon W

The countdown clock is gone!


----------



## yiph2

vdk-john said:


> Keep refreshing they're updating the BBC SO manual on the website


Yeah, the page is not there anymore


----------



## Zedcars

I dunno, I think it's quite funny. I don't mean to laugh at the apparent cock-up, but it's just so inconsequential that it's not worth worrying about. I still love the company.


----------



## mybadmemory

...aaaaaand the counter banner is gone! :D


----------



## Igorianych

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*BERNARD HERRMANN COMPOSER TOOLKIT*
*40% off as part of our May Highlight. Offer ends midnight 31st May 2020.*


----------



## Alex Fraser

korgscrew2000 said:


> How's that going for you?


Still waiting for the rapture.


----------



## DenisT

They should probably change their webmaster first


----------



## Mrmonkey

So I can speak as someone who saved up and invested into BBCSO with the intention as using it as a literal starting point. No musical knowledge or ability but a hunger to do something.

The good thing about it is that it contains the individual elements that help you to think about orchestration. I didn’t know there were 2 sets of violins for example. However there are a number of elements in there that work against it as a starting point, and slow you down. The mics for example are an absolute balls ache for a beginner and more times than not make things worse than better. Things like the leader positions add extra steps of complication. The player hides information. Some of the articulations are difficult to integrate correctly and again, distract from the process of learning by doing. So it doesn’t exactly make it easy as a starting point to creation. At the same time the library seems to lack the basics needed to compete if you do get over that hump and start to take it seriously such as dynamic ranges, dodgy horns etc so it hasn’t really saved me money, far from it because I just spent money on CineBrass.

It also misses the fundamental point of entry which is education and learning. This is the other reason I think it’s a niche hobby because even if you get over the monetary barrier and the technical learning barrier you still have the complexity of the actual orchestration.I had hoped this was going to be part of the package (say, via the YouTube channel) of teaching you WHY a flute can pair with an oboe, or about melody or music theory or whatever, maybe similar to what Guy does on his thinkspace YouTube channel but using BBCO as the teaching kit. That would have been really revolutionary.

Having a cheap, or entry plugin may get around the cost barrier but they already have free products and other cheap software exists. I’d like to see them push on the front of education once they have snared people in, and supporting a community. I could learn more watching Guy or Alex moukala with Labs than I could have spending the extortionate amount of money on BBCSO, and lowering the cost of the program isn’t going to change that for me or anyone else. BBCSO feels a bit trapped between two worlds. It wasn’t an easy starting point for me and it’s not able to stand up to their flagship orchestral packages. With hindsight I could have saved further and got one of their professional orchestras or just started messing with tundra or whatever that was cheaper. That’s not to say I don’t value it, it’s just difficult to take it seriously relative to what it’s purpose was intended for.


----------



## platixzhang

It did change my mood when I was waiting for something big but nothing really happened


----------



## gohrev

Some may call this a failed launch… others will say it's a great success — we're all glued to our screens.


----------



## Scamper

Simeon said:


> Or maybe not



Looks like time itself will cease to exist. We had to think beyond sample libraries.


----------



## Fry777




----------



## redlester

There are several demo tracks of Discover and Core versions just been uploaded to Soundcloud.

The launch was always down as 4pm, the website clock was clearly a mistake.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Fry777 said:


>


You win the thread.


----------



## Zedcars

Fry777 said:


>


Deserves a round of applause I think!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Mrmonkey said:


> That’s not to say I don’t value it, it’s just difficult to take it seriously relative to what it’s purpose was intended for.



Which was what?


----------



## cqd

Well, the adds on vic are saying bbcso get free..


----------



## cqd

Only half a dynamic layer and one mono mic..


----------



## Stringtree

BBCSO product page:

NOT FOUND


----------



## babylonwaves




----------



## al_net77

Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional






www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## Will Wilson

Clearly their press releases said 3PM BST?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Fry777 said:


>



You just made my day!!!!! Love it.


----------



## Simeon

And here we go!


----------



## al_net77

__





Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra


The heart of British musicBBC Symphony Orchestra represents a new standard in orchestral sampling. A whole orchestra at your fingertips, spanning strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion. With three editions to choose from, each fully interoperable, BBCSO is a universal starting point for music...



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## Denkii

When did this happen?
Lol...just call it professional without changing anything? That's one way of trying to convey more value.


----------



## gst98

core is 299


----------



## reutunes

Congrats to everyone who guessed correctly (including me - yay!)
You all win a free copy of BBCSO Discover.

Oh.


----------



## gst98

Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra Core


The broadcast standard



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## al_net77

BBC Symphony Orchestra Discover out of your budget?

Complete the questionnaire below and we'll send you a FREE download after 14 days. Alternatively, you can buy and download now.


----------



## Technostica

Just hit F5 and the name showing on the left of the screen has changed from my first name to my middle name. Checked my account and it only has my first Christian name. Spooky!  
Or maybe they've been bought by Facebook who even know my pseudonyms and names from past lives!


----------



## Pando

The BBCSO link leads to nowhere so it's probably something to do with BBSCO.





Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra


The heart of British musicBBC Symphony Orchestra represents a new standard in orchestral sampling. A whole orchestra at your fingertips, spanning strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion. With three editions to choose from, each fully interoperable, BBCSO is a universal starting point for music...



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## synkrotron

Pando said:


> The BBCSO link leads to nowhere so it's probably something to do with BBSCO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra
> 
> 
> The heart of British musicBBC Symphony Orchestra represents a new standard in orchestral sampling. A whole orchestra at your fingertips, spanning strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion. With three editions to choose from, each fully interoperable, BBCSO is a universal starting point for music...
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com



Just noticed that... Summfin ain't right haha


----------



## Eptesicus

ism said:


> But if ever game changer has to assume that everyone's play the same game in order for it to be game changing, it's just as reductive.




Well, we sort of do all play the same game. I wouldn't class any of those libraries you listed as "game changing". They are just new libraries, or they have sampled something different or a new instrument/technique. Fantastic i am sure, yes. "Game changing" or "everything changing" would imply a revolutionary new step in how sample libraries sound or operate. 

You simply can't use phrases like this or superlatives *all* the time, otherwise they lose all meaning.


----------



## josephspirits

redlester said:


> There are several demo tracks of Discover and Core versions just been uploaded to Soundcloud.
> 
> The launch was always down as 4pm, the website clock was clearly a mistake.



BBSCO Discover and BBSCO Core


----------



## Will Wilson




----------



## Nickie Fønshauge

__





Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra


The heart of British musicBBC Symphony Orchestra represents a new standard in orchestral sampling. A whole orchestra at your fingertips, spanning strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion. With three editions to choose from, each fully interoperable, BBCSO is a universal starting point for music...



www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## mj0541




----------



## Thysmusic.com

so the thing that changes all is a cheaper version with one mix and some solo instruments taken out?

I might buy it. but lol, is this it?









Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra Core






www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## korgscrew2000

redlester said:


> There are several demo tracks of Discover and Core versions just been uploaded to Soundcloud.
> 
> The launch was always down as 4pm, the website clock was clearly a mistake.



So the two announcements are BBCSO Core and BBCSO Discover. A lite version and very lite version (possibly free or low priced)

Not very death bed is it.


----------



## yiph2

Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional






www.spitfireaudio.com




Now its $524 for me? WOOO


----------



## Eptesicus

Thysmusic.com said:


> so the thing that changes all is a cheaper version with one mix and some solo instruments taken out?
> 
> I might buy it. but lol, is this it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra Core
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spitfireaudio.com



ITS ALL ABOUT TO CHANGE!

lol


----------



## Will Wilson

So looks like existing owners are now Pro owners?


----------



## gst98

Will Wilson said:


> So looks like existing owners are now Pro owners?



Congrats to them


----------



## tomosane




----------



## gohrev

Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra Core






www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## vdk-john

https://www.spitfireaudio.com/bbc-so-discover/application/
Discover is free if you fill in a survey and wait 14 days


----------



## Will Wilson

vdk-john said:


> https://www.spitfireaudio.com/bbc-so-discover/application/
> Discover is free if you fill in a survey and wait 14 days



I think the idea is that if you can afford it, you should pay for it. If you can't afford it then fill in the form. Seems fair enough to me, their take on name your own price?


----------



## Denkii

They changed the name of a product I own. Nothing else changed.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

In the comparison chart, the Pro version says up to 9 dynamic layers....I hope this will be an update!


----------



## Will Wilson




----------



## coprhead6

So dissapointing, jesus christ. 
I was positive this would be an SSO update.


----------



## Fleer

So, us BBCSO Pro users are going places


----------



## Mrmonkey

Wolfie2112 said:


> Which was what?



“A universal starting point.”

According to their promotional material


----------



## M0rdechai

so... it's all going to change. unless you already own BBCSO. in that case nothing at all changes

and it's something we already put out before.. so that doesn't change either


----------



## Thysmusic.com

they rebranded bbcso to bbcso pro, 

introduced bbcso core: a one mic 24 gb kit without soloists for 349 euros intro price

introduced bbcso discover: a 50 euro ensemble writing patch









Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional






www.spitfireaudio.com





I might get core.

But their reputation is tarnished. It's all about to change.


----------



## Eptesicus

Will Wilson said:


> I think the idea is that if you can afford it, you should pay for it. If you can't afford it then fill in the form. Seems fair enough to me, their take on name your own price?



Do you think saying that you cant afford it because you have spent too much on other sample libraries will fly?

Might try.


----------



## Virtuoso

Meh. $49 for Discover and $349 (intro) for Core.


----------



## Will Wilson

__





BBC Symphony Orchestra


Frequently Asked Questions about BBC Symphony Orchestra.




www.spitfireaudio.com


----------



## korgscrew2000

Will Wilson said:


>



"New"

Repeats, just like the BBC.


----------



## yiph2

Virtuoso said:


> Meh. $49 for Discover and $349 (intro) for Core.


You can get discover for free if you submit a survey


----------



## Fleer

M0rdechai said:


> so... it's all going to change. unless you already own BBCSO. in that case nothing at all changes
> 
> and it's something we already put out before.. so that doesn't change either


Did we already have 9 dynamic layers?


----------



## Zedcars

No, no, no...I think something else is being announced. That's what Christian said right. You all need to be a bit more patient. Me too lol


----------



## Scamper

Wolfie2112 said:


> In the comparison chart, the Pro version says up to 9 dynamic layers....I hope this will be an update!



That's not as clear as it should be, especially "up to 3" for Discover and Core. Could mean 3 for percussion and 1 for everything else.


----------



## M0rdechai

Fleer said:


> Did we already have 9 dynamic layers?



up to...

for some percussion; I believe so? I could be wrong


----------



## Zero&One

Denkii said:


> They changed the name of a product I own. Nothing else changed.
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



You can delete all the crap and have the Core version!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Fleer said:


> Did we already have 9 dynamic layers?


What?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Excellent. Core is the one I've been waiting for. Absolute steal for what you get. That'll do me.
Also: Nailed it.


----------



## Will Wilson

Christian did allude to two announcements I wonder if we will see the evo style BBCSO released today as well?


----------



## Thysmusic.com

is 590 gb for bbcso pro more than the bbcso version that was available yesterday?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Denkii said:


> They changed the name of a product I own. Nothing else changed.
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Hm, basically yes


----------



## MA-Simon

It is a product for kindergarteners.

Less for less and less.
And here I was thinking you would go back and do real Orchestral libraries again.
Disappointed.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Has everything changed yet?


----------



## Scamper

Thysmusic.com said:


> is 590 gb for bbcso pro more than the bbcso version that was available yesterday?



Yep, the old one was around 565GB.


----------



## SZK-Max

Thanks to that, I was able to become a professional


----------



## Bluemount Score

Scamper said:


> Yep, the old one was around 565GB.


Though no new content?


----------



## EBicks

Anybody know if a Spring Wish List is happening? Not interested in the BBC stuff really..


----------



## Virtuoso

Thysmusic.com said:


> is 590 gb for bbcso pro more than the bbcso version that was available yesterday?


Yes - the Bass Flute is 10GB.


----------



## gussunkri

I see no update to the BBCSO in the app. Why do Spitfire hate me? I want my bass flute and I want it now!


----------



## pawelmorytko

Am I doing this right?


----------



## Will Wilson

Bluemount Score said:


> Though no new content?



Bass flute.


----------



## redlester

Spitfire product teaser appears.
VI-Control: "Does this mean BBC SO is abandonware? I wish they would update their existing products"

Spitfire announce re-vamped existing product:
VI-Control: "What a disappointment"


----------



## Zedcars

​


----------



## Zero&One

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Has everything changed yet?



Yes, my mood has. Me feeling towards my BBCSO preorder has.
So a big success I'd say.


----------



## Bluemount Score

New in the "Pro" Version.
No legato, but hey


----------



## gohrev

Filled out the survey. What a lovely idea.


----------



## gohrev

I think the Discover version will make for a nice layering library?


----------



## Will Wilson

Still don't see a strings ensemble patch which would have been nice. Love using that in SSS and SCS


----------



## korgscrew2000

Zero&One said:


> Yes, my mood has. Me feeling towards my BBCSO preorder has.
> So a big success I'd say.



For better or worse? Seems worse.


----------



## MartinH.

I'm most impressed by how much sound they're getting out of 200mb worth of samples. I wonder if it's a lossy compression.




Denkii said:


> They changed the name of a product I own. Nothing else changed.
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



But don't you at least feel a little better, now that you own a "pro" product? 




Wolfie2112 said:


> In the comparison chart, the Pro version says up to 9 dynamic layers....I hope this will be an update!



I thought it's likely just some drums that have 9 layers of dynamics. Much easier to sample that deeply than chromatic instruments that also need many round robins.


----------



## Thysmusic.com

I like the idea of using core on laptop and pro in the studio, and being able to open the projects on both with just the microphone mixes changing (wondering what happens to solo lines, will they get played by temporary ensemble patches until you open them back up in the pro version?)


----------



## Will Wilson

korgscrew2000 said:


> For better or worse? Seems worse.



How is it worse? People who pre-ordered aren't being left behind, in fact they get an update and future updates. This announcement just means more people can enjoy with Discover or Core?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

MartinH. said:


> I'm most impressed by how much sound they're getting out of 200mb worth of samples. I wonder if it's a lossy compression.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But don't you at least feel a little better, now that you own a "pro" product?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it's likely just some drums that have 9 layers of dynamics. Much easier to sample that deeply than chromatic instruments that also need many round robins.



I think you’re correct. It would be nice if they added some layers to the brass and strings, but probably not.


----------



## synkrotron

berlin87 said:


> Filled out the survey. What a lovely idea.



Same, and I agree.

Listening to the vid... you seem to get a lot for a bullseye (or free if you can wait two weeks)


----------



## DenisT

I expected more to be honest. But if some composers can have access to such a beautiful sounding library for that price, that's cool for them!


----------



## jaketanner

dzilizzi said:


> It's usually at around 5pm their time.


For west coast I think it's 11am


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

As someone who has pre-ordered BBCSO (and absolutely love it) I find the fact that I'll have a version with a ~200MB footprint pretty amazing. I'll be using that on my mobile system to sketch out ideas. The fact that it's "a universal starting point" makes it easy to switch the project to Pro into a more powerful rig and build further on the idea.

I'm pretty happy with this.


----------



## tomosane

I gotta say I'm really glad I didn't buy BBCSO when it was first released, it always seemed weirdly overkill in a way that didn't necessarily serve the vast majority of people looking for a "starting point" orchestra. BBCSO Core seems like a *much* more sensible product in this sense, although I gotta wonder what this pricing scheme is gonna mean for Albion sales...

(Instead of the original BBCSO, I ended up shelling out for SCS, so no BBCSO for me this time around either I'm afraid...)


----------



## redlester

The Discover version of Danse Macabre sounds bloody good to me.


----------



## Will Wilson

Sjoerd Visser said:


> As someone who has pre-ordered BBCSO (and absolutely love it) I find the fact that I'll have a version with a ~200MB footprint pretty amazing. I'll be using that on my mobile system to sketch out ideas. The fact that it's "a universal starting point" makes it easy to switch the project to Pro into a more powerful rig and build further on the idea.
> 
> I'm pretty happy with this.



Exactly, I can install Discover on my crappy 13" MacBook I take away on holiday with me and perhaps do something useful!


----------



## MA-Simon

You guys, now that this thing is called PRO, you will never get your actual PRO Library add on. 

Hope you feel the warmth and happiness of marketing yet! 
_
(Sorry, feeling exceedingly salty today for now reason, maybe I should go to bed again)._


----------



## kgdrum

Virtuoso said:


> I changed my underwear when I heard the Bass Flute!




Unfortunately some of us(yes I’m a drummer) are not smart enough to wear underwear 😱


----------



## Brasart

MA-Simon said:


> You guys, now that this thing is called PRO, you will never get your actual PRO Library add on.
> 
> Hope you feel the warmth and happiness of marketing yet!
> 
> _(Sorry, feeling exceedingly salty today for now reason, maybe I should go to bed again)._



Maybe you should indeed because that was never promised and the current version is already self-sufficient, holy shit this forum is so insane sometimes it makes me sad


----------



## ism

Eptesicus said:


> Well, we sort of do all play the same game. I wouldn't class any of those libraries you listed as "game changing". They are just new libraries, or they have sampled something different or a new instrument/technique. Fantastic i am sure, yes. "Game changing" or "everything changing" would imply a revolutionary new step in how sample libraries sound or operate.
> 
> You simply can't use phrases like this or superlatives *all* the time, otherwise they lose all meaning.



Of course I can call all those libraries game changing. Each one opens up new musical worlds that simply would not have been accessible, perhaps even imaginable, to me otherwise. Mind blowingly game changing. 

And revolutionary in how I can dream of writing music that with my old VSL SE, or even HO or SSO simply wasn’t barely even possible to even conceive. 

Not revolutionary, I’ll grant, in same way as, say, setting as new record for most dynamic layers on a trombone patch - which, while I appreciate and respect the innovation and passion and progress behind such a thing, it’s sadly probably not the sort of thing that’s going to blow my mind, nor change any of the particular games I live in.

Sure there’re ‘just new libraries’ and of course I complete respect that you mind was not blown by them in remotely the same way. Perhaps bar for mind blowing and/or game changing is higher for more experienced composers? Although even that feels too reductive, because every time Spitfire makes him a new library, I genuinely believe those videos where Christian continually talks about how his mind is being completely blown  Seriously you could probably even see his mind being blown, even with the sound off. Which is fun to watch.


And there nothing under the sun that will blow everyone’s mind. And nothing of any wonder or value in the universe that can’t similarly be reduced to meaninglessness via ‘it’s just ..’.

One person’s mind blowingly important, for instance, wedding ring, is to someone else just a chunk of metal with a chunk of especially hard carbon glued to it.

So sure, three are underlying similarities to the games we’re playing. But I don’t think that we’re even sort of playing the same game, except at the most reductive level. 

But it’s of course also a very, very good thing that so many different things blow the great diversity of our individual minds in so many unimaginably different ways.

My niece recently had her mind blown by ... I think they’re called ‘hatchimals’. And on one level I’m hoping that she’ll the the bar a little on what it takes to blow her mind. But on the other hand, how lovely to find such wonder in something so (apparently, so far as I can see) stupid.


----------



## Pando

I think what's the genius about it is the collaboration possibility (mode switching). Someone with the Discover version can sketch up an idea and send it to someone with a Professional (or Core) version and they will be able to run the project and it will sound the same. And it also works in reverse, although the missing sounds and articulations are simulated in lower edition. But it will work, and that is what's amazing. It becomes a standard toolbox instead of dealing with custom templates that are not translatable outside their own studio.


----------



## Will Wilson

This is pretty game changing in an Educational context I would suspect!


----------



## MA-Simon

Brasart said:


> Maybe you should indeed because that was never promised and the current version is already self-sufficient, holy shit this forum is so insane sometimes it makes sad


Not for me.

A pro version was strongly implied, like with BML a volume 2 add on back in the days, never happened.
Same with promised updates.

So for me this is the same pattern here, rebranding, repacking and dumbing it down.


----------



## GingerMaestro

Will Wilson said:


>


@Will Wilson Hi Will, How do you get the additional discount ? It's showing Core for $349 on my account...Thanks


----------



## Will Wilson

GingerMaestro said:


> @Will Wilson Hi Will, How do you get the additional discount ? It's showing Core for $349 on my account...Thanks



No idea, I already own it.


----------



## christianhenson

Yes... that anyone can collaborate anywhere in the world on a fully professional score, project and have zero blockers, its free for those who need it to be, it can be downloaded anywhere and that it is completely cross compatible in all directions to the PRO library IS game changing.

It may not change YOUR game (he says in the general direction of naysayers... not to you Will)... but it does change the way we all can now approach and teach electronic orchestration.\

There is a solution where there wasn't one previously.


----------



## josephspirits

I do think this is changes a lot for a lot of people, just maybe not the people who were expecting something else (even though the trailer had the BBSCO "london calling" sound bits in it... ). 

I think that the options that this opens up for more people to make more music is great, I would have loved this option years ago. Would have probably saved a lot of money, but I'm not mad that people in the future will now have more quality options.


----------



## Will Wilson

christianhenson said:


> Yes... that anyone can collaborate anywhere in the world on a fully professional score, project and have zero blockers, its free for those who need it to be, it can be downloaded anywhere and that it is completely cross compatible in all directions to the PRO library IS game changing.


----------



## Brasart

MA-Simon said:


> Not for me.
> 
> A pro version was strongly implied, like with BML a volume 2 add on back in the days, never happened.
> So for me this is the same pattern here, rebranding, repacking and dumbing it down.



It was never implied, but I guess it's easy to be disappointed by things you make up in your head


----------



## easyrider

christianhenson said:


> Yes... that anyone can collaborate anywhere in the world on a fully professional score, project and have zero blockers, its free for those who need it to be, it can be downloaded anywhere and that it is completely cross compatible in all directions to the PRO library IS game changing.
> 
> It may not change YOUR game (he says in the general direction of naysayers... not to you Will)... but it does change the way we all can now approach and teach electronic orchestration.




This is pretty amazing of Spitfire if you ask me....Sending you all good vibrations


----------



## Virtuoso

GingerMaestro said:


> @Will Wilson Hi Will, How do you get the additional discount ? It's showing Core for $349 on my account...Thanks


It's £299 (UKP) or $349 (USD).


----------



## muk

Is that the full dynamic range of the trumpet in core?





I see cc1 moving to almost 127, but I don't hear any change in timbre.


Edit: Had to check in the 'Pro' walkthrough:



Same thing, unfortunately. Sounds like only two dynamic layers and a bit of volume automation. Somehow I can't quite bring myself to actually buy this. Maybe the core version, at the discount price? Hm.


----------



## Jon W

The excitement and community around this event. Well done Spitfire!


----------



## christianhenson

Thanks, massive big up to the Spitfire team.... achieving this in lockdown was insane.


----------



## MarcelM

well, ill make it short. this is great!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Unless I'm missing something obvious, the "core" version looks to be cracking value. All the obvious instruments are present and the articulations don't appear to diddled in anyway. No "ensembles" or other obvious short changes. There's the dynamic layers thing of course, but I'm pretty sure the (now) pro version isn't awash with layers anyhow.

Looks like the perfect deal to me. No saltiness here.


----------



## korgscrew2000

For some of us here, It's just like masturbation. 

It's all exciting, you imagine what could be, you build to the climax then it's all over and you're left feeling deflated, embarrassed for yourself and left with a sticky mess.


----------



## Will Wilson

muk said:


> Is that the full dynamic range of the trumpet in core?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see cc1 moving to almost 127, but I don't hear any change in timbre.
> 
> 
> Edit: Had to check in the 'Pro' walkthrough:
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing, unfortunately. Sounds like only two dynamic layers and a bit of volume automation. Somehow I can't quite bring myself to actually buy this. Maybe the core version, at the discount price? Hm.




For me the brass has always been the biggest let down in BBSCO, Strings, Perc and Woods I think are lovely but I always have to supplement brass with SSB for my personal taste/style.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Virtuoso said:


> I changed my underwear when I heard the Bass Flute!


Where can you hear it? I see no update yet for my BBCSO


----------



## Will Wilson

@christianhenson Are we going to see a Strings Ensemble patch at any point? Even if it is something scripted and Jake Jackson'd. Such a useful writing tool in SSS and SCS!


----------



## cqd

Yeah, did they fix the horns in the "pro"?..


----------



## josephspirits

christianhenson said:


> Yes... that anyone can collaborate anywhere in the world on a fully professional score, project and have zero blockers, its free for those who need it to be, it can be downloaded anywhere and that it is completely cross compatible in all directions to the PRO library IS game changing.
> 
> It may not change YOUR game (he says in the general direction of naysayers... not to you Will)... but it does change the way we all can now approach and teach electronic orchestration.\
> 
> There is a solution where there wasn't one previously.



It's a great idea, website looks welcoming to a new generation of composers, more people will be able to make more music, more easily. 

I think the noise floor on here is just a little loud.


----------



## Brasart

Bluemount Score said:


> Where can you hear it? I see no update yet for my BBCSO



The update was showing this morning for me, I've updated everything (Bass Flute is in the 10go Woodwinds update) and then it was in the BBCSO plugin.
Maybe there's too much traffic at the moment? Try reloading your Spitfire App


----------



## Will Wilson

Brasart said:


> The update was showing this morning for me, I've updated everything (Bass Flute is in the 10go Woodwinds update) and then it was in the BBCSO plugin.
> Maybe there's too much traffic at the moment? Try reloading your Spitfire App



I had an email a few minutes ago letter me know about the update but don't see anything yet. Might take a while for the engineers to sort everything out!


----------



## Sjoerd Visser

On a sidenote, I just adore that little Danse Macabre version that has been posted under the demos of the Discovery version. It's sounds damn amazing. Hard to believe that done with a 200MB library.

The Danse Macabre by Saint-Saëns has been used as the score for a Haunted House in one of the Netherlands' most popular theme parks (De Efteling). That Haunted House with the music opened in 1978. The whole park is very thematic, so as a kid of 4 years old this place was absolutely magical.

The Haunted House in combination with this music made so much of an impression on me as a kid of 4 years old, it brings back so many memories just listening to it. It was one of my favourites and listening to this demo makes me relive all those wonderful times I had there (mind you, as a kid I could barely sleep from excitement if we'd went to that theme park the next day).

Since I bought BBCSO it has been on my list for a while to try and recreate the piece (or a version of it) to see how convincing it can be. Till now it seemed like an impossible project, lol. Not sure I could have done it justice.

Well done Spitfire


----------



## Scamper

Alex Fraser said:


> Unless I'm missing something obvious, the "core" version looks to be cracking value. All the obvious instruments are present and the articulations don't appear to diddled in anyway. No "ensembles" or other obvious short changes. There's the dynamic layers thing of course, but I'm pretty sure the (now) pro version isn't awash with layers anyhow.



There really should be more info about the dynamic layers and what exactly has been reduced, considering that situation in Pro, as you mentioned. 
Otherwise BBCSO Core could be one of the go-to recommendations for complete entry level orchestral libraries.


----------



## josephspirits

korgscrew2000 said:


> For some of us here, It's just like masturbation.
> 
> It's all exciting, you imagine what could be, you build to the climax then it's all over and you're left feeling deflated, embarrassed for yourself and left with a sticky mess.



Maybe your next love affair will work out better if you appreciate it for what it is instead of lusting after something that you made up in your head?


----------



## Alex Fraser

Anyone know from what mic/mix signals the "core" derives its sound from? Had a hunt, came up short.


----------



## redlester

korgscrew2000 said:


> For some of us here, It's just like masturbation.
> 
> It's all exciting, you imagine what could be, you build to the climax then it's all over and you're left feeling deflated, embarrassed for yourself and left with a sticky mess.



Well there certainly are plenty of wankers on here!
(Sorry, most definitely not aimed at you, but that was an open goal)


----------



## Will Wilson

Alex Fraser said:


> Anyone know from what mic/mix signals the "core" derives its sound from? Had a hunt, came up short.



Jake Jackson Mix of Bottle Mic and iPhone.........


Would suspect it is close to what Mix 1 is in Base/Pro


----------



## reutunes

This will truly be a game changer for those just starting out in orchestration...


----------



## ism

Will Wilson said:


> This is pretty game changing in an Educational context I would suspect!



Have to agree this is has the potential to be hugely game changing for a lot of people. Love the concept.

(And is incredibly smart marketing also).


----------



## Zero&One

Alex Fraser said:


> Anyone know from what mic/mix signals the "core" derives its sound from? Had a hunt, came up short.



Mix 1. I'm 99% sure that's what PT said on the video.
The mix all us Pro users use.


----------



## Ashermusic

Man, that's a lot of reverb though. Like to hear it more naked, but hard to see how you can go wrong for $49.


----------



## kelexys

So is the Core version still a good addition to your arsenal if you already own Albion One and the Inspire series? I'll buy discover anyways to check it out :D


----------



## StillLife

If you imagine for a moment how much this means for anyone who wants to try out working with orchestral instruments... For them, this changes a LOT. Well done!


----------



## coprhead6

Ugh, just release the Pro versions of SSO. I've been waiting for those Outriggers for so long


----------



## Peter Satera

lol!


----------



## JPComposer

I hear East West and OT are still aiming at the higher end of the market.


----------



## tomosane

Crackpot theory: with BBCSO Discovery, SFA is running a test with the specific purpose of getting data on how many people are willing to pay for their product when the chance to get it for free is just a few clicks away


----------



## Will Wilson

JPComposer said:


> I hear East West and OT are still aiming at the higher end of the market.



It's not about the higher or lower end of the market. It's about accessibility and leaving behind elitism.


----------



## Levon

Breaking down the barriers! What a great entry point for someone wanting to learn! Well done Spitfire! The only problem I've now got is choosing which one!


----------



## kelexys

tomosane said:


> Crackpot theory: with BBCSO Discovery, SFA is running a test with the specific purpose of getting data on how many people are willing to pay for their product when the chance to get it for free is just a few clicks away


But you have to wait 14 days if you want it free. Some kind of sick mental game :D But Amazing that they give people access to this product for free!


----------



## tav.one

tomosane said:


> When the chance to get it for free is just a few clicks away


Few Clicks and 2 weeks away. They want to know who has more patience.


----------



## JPComposer

Will Wilson said:


> It's not about the higher or lower end of the market. It's about accessibility and leaving behind elitism.



Ok have fun with that.


----------



## Fleer

Getting Core free as a Pro owner is like getting Hollywood Orchestra Gold free as a Diamond owner. Pretty pretty good.


----------



## synkrotron

I don't mind waiting two weeks to hear whether I'll get "discovery" for free or not. I'm in no rush as I have a couple of open tickets with regards to two libraries of SA that I own. I need those sorting out first...


----------



## ism

kelexys said:


> But you have to wait 14 days if you want it free. Some kind of sick mental game :D But Amazing that they give people access to this product for free!


Imagine the headache for staff on lockdown having to support everyone who gets it for free all at once.

(And people who get things free can be the most belligerent and entitled customers to support. Its going to be expensive to give this away for free).


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> Imagine the headache for staff on lockdown having to support everyone who gets it for free all at once.
> 
> (And people who get things free can be the most belligerent and entitled customers to support. Its going to be expensive to give this away for free).


This is also a way to spread the hit on the servers.


----------



## koolkeys

ism said:


> Imagine the headache for staff on lockdown having to support everyone who gets it for free all at once.
> 
> (And people who get things free can be the most belligerent and entitled customers to support. Its going to be expensive to give this away for free).


And don't forget the requests for "why isn't this 'basic' articulation included in the Discovery version? I would think ***** articulation would be considered essential. Discovery is useless without it"

Because somebody always wants more......


----------



## brek

kelexys said:


> So is the Core version still a good addition to your arsenal if you already own Albion One and the Inspire series? I'll buy discover anyways to check it out :D



Absolutely. With individual instruments rather than ensembles, your results will start out worse, but you'll be learning to write for the orchestra. With patience and practice it will make you a better composer than you would be using only Inspire and Albion (and you will grow to like those libraries even more for what they offer).


----------



## gtrwll

Downloading the update now. Interesting to see how it improves the plugin, loading times and RAM usage on larger projects.

Also love that I can install the Discover version on my laptop (as if I was going anywhere in the foreseeable future).


----------



## Will Wilson

Um did we just bring down VI Control?


----------



## Manaberry

Will Wilson said:


> Um did we just bring down VI Control?


Yup.


----------



## Michael Antrum

It is certainly an impressive achievement, but I'm afraid I can't help feeling a little let down that the new release is not the new updated version of the Symphonic Orchestra, which is now a year overdue. Having made that investment, I haven't felt any need to look at the BBCSO myself, though I'm pretty sure I will have a look at the base version.

The idea, and concept, however, is simply terrific - and I so wish it had been available when I started out. But I don't see the BBC SO as being the next thing on my radar - but i will give it a go.

The thing is that now I am tending to use Staffpad to compose - and then pushing it to Cubase and SSO etc and so in these straightened times I really don't see the need for another orchestral library.

So my congratulations to the Spitfire team - but please don't forget about the SSO - it's supposed to be your flagship product .....


----------



## h.s.j.e

I do everything on a laptop and have to strategize VI purchases over about $10. The impact of the "or free" next to the "£49" when I read the announcement was fairly revolutionary for me.

I know everybody's got a budget and priorities, and it makes sense that for lots of VI-C users, this falls somewhere between a pleasant surprise and an unwelcome shift in your own budget considerations regarding BBCSO. That totally makes sense. But I'm grateful and surprised.


----------



## Ben H

kelexys said:


> But you have to wait 14 days if you want it free. Some kind of sick mental game :D But Amazing that they give people access to this product for free!



If it catches on, I imagine all their new libraries will be delivered that way. Wait 14 days to receive them. Even the paid ones.


----------



## merty

I hope it catches on, not only for spitfire but other too


----------



## gussunkri

As an owner of BBCSO I got all the versions. At first I wasn't overly impressed, but I am warming up to the idea. For future collaborations this will be great in certain conditions, and it might well get a lot of people on board with writing for orchestra that would otherwise not be interested. Cool!


----------



## reutunes

For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about here, then maybe you need to cast your minds back to when you were just starting out. Story time…

Many (many) years ago when I was just beginning on the road to composing, I saved for months to be able to afford my first orchestral sample library. It was Garritan Personal Orchestra and ran to about £150 which was a great deal of money for me in those days. I struggled to get the software working properly, using my Dell laptop and tiny controller keyboard. Through many months I persevered and wrote some astonishing pieces of music, or so I thought at the time. Actually they were shit.

Since those early days I have racked up more orchestral products than my 20TB hard drive can accommodate and now have no need for “starter” libraries. However, if you’d have told me at the time that I could be composing with a world-renowned BBC orchestra, recorded at Maida Vale, I would’ve bitten your hand off to get at those samples. And for free? Jesus Christ!

THAT is where this product is a game changer. Not for the cynics and smart-arses of VI Control (me included) but for the thousands of young composers taking their first tentative steps into this world.

Try and remember what that was like… for you… back then.


----------



## RonOrchComp

Sorry, this does not fall under

*"It's all about to change" *


----------



## Will Wilson

RonOrchComp said:


> Sorry, this does not fall under
> 
> *"It's all about to change" *



It's about perspective.

For some people, not all this is a massive change. Educational settings, collaborations, People just getting started. This is massive.


----------



## Ashermusic

reutunes said:


> For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about here, then maybe you need to cast your minds back to when you were just starting out. Story time…
> 
> Many (many) years ago when I was just beginning on the road to composing, I saved for months to be able to afford my first orchestral sample library. It was Garritan Personal Orchestra and ran to about £150 which was a great deal of money for me in those days. I struggled to get the software working properly, using my Dell laptop and tiny controller keyboard. Through many months I persevered and wrote some astonishing pieces of music, or so I thought at the time. Actually they were shit.
> 
> Since those early days I have racked up more orchestral products than my 20TB hard drive can accommodate and now have no need for “starter” libraries. However, if you’d have told me at the time that I could be composing with a world-renowned BBC orchestra, recorded at Maida Vale, I would’ve bitten your hand off to get at those samples. And for free? Jesus Christ!
> 
> THAT is where this product is a game changer. Not for the cynics and smart-arses of VI Control (me included) but for the thousands of young composers taking their first tentative steps into this world.
> 
> Try and remember what that was like… for you… back then.



Well stated.


----------



## Brasart

RonOrchComp said:


> Sorry, this does not fall under
> 
> *"It's all about to change" *



Don't be sorry, it does, you're just not the center of the world — a phrase that should be pinned to the screen every time every member enters this forum


----------



## FuzyDunlop

Will Wilson said:


> It's about perspective.
> 
> For some people, not all this is a massive change. Educational settings, collaborations, People just getting started. This is massive.



I believe that would be "_Some_ things are about to change." To say that it's all going to change is to say that it's...ALL going to change.


----------



## yiph2

FuzyDunlop said:


> I believe that would be "_Some_ things are about to change." To say that it's all going to change is to say that it's...ALL going to change.


But that would be the worst slogan ever...


----------



## Ashermusic

FuzyDunlop said:


> I believe that would be "_Some_ things are about to change." To say that it's all going to change is to say that it's...ALL going to change.



Oh, for crying out loud, sure it's marketing hype but practically every company in the world trying to sell something does this. Get over it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

reutunes said:


> It was Garritan Personal Orchestra and ran to about £150 which was a great deal of money for me in those days.



Lol! In 2008, my first VI orchestral library purchase was EW Complete Composer Collection.....I paid about $2000! Still using it to this day, though. I’m still loving BBCSO, it's a beautiful sounding library (except for the brass).


----------



## mybadmemory

I’m curious about the rationale behind including the soloists for winds and brass but not for strings in Core. Any ideas?


----------



## yiph2

Soloists are not really necessary for strings compared to winds/brass


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Ashermusic said:


> Oh, for crying out loud, sure it's marketing hype but practically every company in the world trying to sell something does this. Get over it.



Exactly!!! The nitpicking is downright childish to say the least.


----------



## FuzyDunlop

Ashermusic said:


> Oh, for crying out loud, sure it's marketing hype but practically every company in the world trying to sell something does this. Get over it.


I'm over it.


----------



## easyrider

I Teach creative media production for post 16...the spec requires that students can use copyright free music for their video edits...This BBC discover means I can get the students to create their own film scores in the classroom! All I need is an cheap audio interface and cheap midi keyboard in front of every video editing PC.

This is really exciting !


----------



## ism

Ok, lets admit not *everything* has changed. For instance:

- The speed of light
- Plankt’s constant
- Probable a couple of other things

And having been well chastised, I’m sure we can all agree to never say anything that we don’t mean 100% literal ever again.


----------



## dzilizzi

I finally caught up. Of course I will get behind as I write this. 

I think the ability of BBCSO to automatically change to the closest articulation between versions without the person going in an doing it is a massive game changer for things like collaborating or teaching. Nothing else does that.

And I filled out the survey for the free version. I was waiting for the Spring WL sale to get BBCSO (now pro version), but maybe it won't be in the sale? Either way, in 14 days I should have one of them.


----------



## FuzyDunlop

ism said:


> Ok, lets admit not *everything* has changed. For instance:
> 
> - The speed of light
> - Plankt’s constant
> - Probable a couple of other things
> 
> And having been well chastised, let’s all agree never to ever say anything that isn’t 100% literal ever again.


Have you ever heard of the boy who cried 'wolf'? I think most people pretty much agree that Spitfire's marketing is annoying, misleading, tedious, and unlikely to work for much longer. But I still like the company.


----------



## christianhenson

OK JOIN US LATER (I'll be on live chat for both of these premieres) 19.00BST


----------



## jon wayne

I will say, that this is a lot more usable than a competitor's sketch tool I purchased for a WHOLE lot more $$. Hate to point out a bug already, but the violin 1 pizz upper end is panned incorrectly. it is in the V 2 position. If exposed, could sound strange.


----------



## mobiuscog

dzilizzi said:


> I was waiting for the Spring WL sale to get BBCSO (now pro version), but maybe it won't be in the sale?



It's currently back on sale at it's initial launch price.


----------



## ism

FuzyDunlop said:


> Have you ever heard of the boy who cried 'wolf'? I think most people pretty much agree that Spitfire's marketing is annoying, misleading, tedious, and unlikely to work for much longer. But I still like the company.


I think that most of us are here because it’s kind of fun to speculate and discuss and theorize and interpret and predict and analyse and generally enthuse about how great sample libraries are and all the various dimensions of innovation driving them in this particular historical moment, and don’t feel especially endangered by predatory Spitfire instagram images at all. 

And also for the silliness.


----------



## Dr.Quest

FuzyDunlop said:


> Have you ever heard of the boy who cried 'wolf'? I think most people pretty much agree that Spitfire's marketing is annoying, misleading, tedious, and unlikely to work for much longer. But I still like the company.


I love the marketing. I take great pleasure in the inventiveness of it and the fact it annoys so many people that could easily ignore it but just have to say how they hate it. No one gets more posts for a simple art card. Genius!


----------



## Ashermusic

I neither like nor dislike it. It's what companies do to sell product.


----------



## paulmatthew

I was interested in Core until I saw it only has one mic mix. If it included close, tree, and ambient separately I would have gotten it


----------



## RonOrchComp

Brasart said:


> Don't be sorry, it does, you're just not the center of the world — a phrase that should be pinned to the screen every time every member enters this forum




Where the hell do you get off saying that? I never said I was the center of the world. I stated my opinion. You dont like it? Fine. Keep your mouth closed.


----------



## ism

Not to mention how beautiful spitfire marketing can be. Ok the google colours on this one aren’t doing it for me, and there’s not a Norwegian glacier to be found anywhere, so I feel a little bit sad about that (and all the more reason to upgrade to core). But the Stratus marketing was a work of art in itself.


----------



## SupremeFist

Core is insane value for money and I will buy it. Discover is a wonderful thing for youngsters etc.

That said, this release did not change the quantity of beer in my fridge. Damn you, Spitfire!


----------



## Zedcars

christianhenson said:


> OK JOIN US LATER (I'll be on live chat for both of these premieres) 19.00BST



I’m getting front row seats for this. Where’s my popcorn? 🍿


----------



## MartinH.

"Some people's game is about to significally change, though possibly not yours" isn't quite as catchy as the one they went with...


----------



## Mike Fox

N


----------



## ism

I’m thinking about how great this could be for my neice, who’s just started to study music. And what a great excuse that would give me to upgrade to core.


----------



## Eptesicus

ism said:


> Of course I can call all those libraries game changing. Each one opens up new musical worlds that simply would not have been accessible, perhaps even imaginable, to me otherwise. Mind blowingly game changing.
> 
> And revolutionary in how I can dream of writing music that with my old VSL SE, or even HO or SSO simply wasn’t barely even possible to even conceive.
> 
> Not revolutionary, I’ll grant, in same way as, say, setting as new record for most dynamic layers on a trombone patch - which, while I appreciate and respect the innovation and passion and progress behind such a thing, it’s sadly probably not the sort of thing that’s going to blow my mind, nor change any of the particular games I live in.
> 
> Sure there’re ‘just new libraries’ and of course I complete respect that you mind was not blown by them in remotely the same way. Perhaps bar for mind blowing and/or game changing is higher for more experienced composers? Although even that feels too reductive, because every time Spitfire makes him a new library, I genuinely believe those videos where Christian continually talks about how his mind is being completely blown  Seriously you could probably even see his mind being blown, even with the sound off. Which is fun to watch.
> 
> 
> And there nothing under the sun that will blow everyone’s mind. And nothing of any wonder or value in the universe that can’t similarly be reduced to meaninglessness via ‘it’s just ..’.
> 
> One person’s mind blowingly important, for instance, wedding ring, is to someone else just a chunk of metal with a chunk of especially hard carbon glued to it.
> 
> So sure, three are underlying similarities to the games we’re playing. But I don’t think that we’re even sort of playing the same game, except at the most reductive level.
> 
> But it’s of course also a very, very good thing that so many different things blow the great diversity of our individual minds in so many unimaginably different ways.
> 
> My niece recently had her mind blown by ... I think they’re called ‘hatchimals’. And on one level I’m hoping that she’ll the the bar a little on what it takes to blow her mind. But on the other hand, how lovely to find such wonder in something so (apparently, so far as I can see) stupid.



But language is very important and describing everything as incredible and the pinnacle of something, means that nothing is the incredible or the pinnacle of something.

That is my issue, that is all. It's tedious to have something described in superlatives constantly when it isn't warranted.

Again, it isn't just Spitfire that do it. Many people and companies do it and it makes me cross


----------



## tonaliszt

Did we ever figure out what the 4 red squares behind the basses are?


----------



## Eptesicus

Dr.Quest said:


> I take great pleasure in the inventiveness of it



But the issue is that it is objectively not inventive. Quite the opposite in fact.


----------



## jaketanner

this can NOT be the huge announcement and life changing or whatever...so they're offering the Discover, Core and pro of a library they released...not a call for a week long teaser, so this seems like an extra. A nice one, and I may take advantage of the Core library at some point, but hardly anything worth all this hype...so whatever is coming later on, has to be something much much bigger.


----------



## Brasart

tonaliszt said:


> Did we ever figure out what the 4 red squares behind the basses are?



In the app it's access to the brass, horns is the red part on the left and trumpets, trombones, bass trombones and tuba (IIRC?) are the red parts on the right


----------



## Eptesicus

jaketanner said:


> this can NOT be the huge announcement and life changing or whatever...so they're offering the Discover, Core and pro of a library they released...not a call for a week long teaser, so this seems like an extra. A nice one, and I may take advantage of the Core library at some point, but hardly anything worth all this hype...so whatever is coming later on, has to be something much much bigger.




I believe this is it. 

This is why language is so important. As is evident, it has left a lot of their customers/fans disappointed.


----------



## Rich4747

professional "the new Gold Standard" ...wow really? I feel like I am in a bar and someone just turned over their glass.


----------



## ism

Eptesicus said:


> But language is very important and describing everything as incredible and the pinnacle of everything, means that nothing is the incredible or the pinnacle of something.
> 
> That is my issue, that is all. It's tedious to have something described in superlatives constantly when it isn't warranted.


I get that. And there are times when I can get too much marketing hype even from Spitfire when it’s pushed at me on facebooks over libraries I don’t want (as much as other libraries).

But in a community of deeply and genuinely engaged composers like this one, every library has the opportunity to be genuinely game changing for someone. BBC Discover is probably likely to be more game changing for my 10 year old niece (and my attempts to teach her music during the lock down) than for myself as a composer. But this is exciting tool. JXL brass has zero chance of being game changing for me (given my lifelong antipathy to trombones) but I really enjoyed, and felt I learned valuable things from, that thread about how it opened up so much expressive space for others. BBC pro is a bit much for me at the moment, but Core could really open up a space I don’t quite know how to describe, except that it sounds sort of a little bit like something I hear in composers like Debussy but have never heard another sample library. So Core is really quite exciting. 

Out of (genuine) curiosity, what libraries have been/could be game changing for yourself?


----------



## Ashermusic

Frankly, the complaining about marketing hype is way more annoying than the marketing hype.


----------



## korgscrew2000

The next release will be Symphonic Motions. For sure.


----------



## richhickey

I do wish they had distinguished Core from Pro by mics only, like VSL does with Synchron Standard/Full, rather than fewer mics _and_ fewer instruments. I'd certainly pay $100 more for _all_ the instruments/artics and the one mix. Core+ completion kit anyone?

In any case, Core is a welcome addition at a decent price. It makes clear the modest actual sample set of BBCSO vs the mic bloat. And it might keep people from creating those awful uncanny spaces/distances by arbitrarily mixing the mics, as so many of user demos seem prone to doing.


----------



## FuzyDunlop

Ashermusic said:


> Frankly, the complaining about marketing hype is way more annoying than the marketing hype.


Frankly, the complaining about the complaining is way more annoying than the complaining.


----------



## Iswhatitis

jaketanner said:


> this can NOT be the huge announcement and life changing or whatever...so they're offering the Discover, Core and pro of a library they released...not a call for a week long teaser, so this seems like an extra. A nice one, and I may take advantage of the Core library at some point, but hardly anything worth all this hype...so whatever is coming later on, has to be something much much bigger.


The update is completely free so why is this a problem? Anytime a developer gives a free update with tons more samples is only good news!!


----------



## ism

FuzyDunlop said:


> Frankly, the complaining about the complaining is way more annoying than the complaining.


And, just out of curiosity, how do you feel about the complaining about the complaining about the complaining?


----------



## schrodinger1612

The surprise is that there's no surprise.


----------



## Ashermusic

ism said:


> And, just out of curiosity, how do you feel about the complaining about complaining about the complaining?



It's annoying


----------



## redlester

Heartii said:


> We need update of existing product, not new products every weeks.


----------



## Virtuoso




----------



## Iswhatitis

richhickey said:


> I do wish they had distinguished Core from Pro by mics only, like VSL does with Synchron Standard/Full, rather than fewer mics _and_ fewer instruments. I'd certainly pay $100 more for _all_ the instruments/artics and the one mix. Core+ completion kit anyone?
> 
> In any case, Core is a welcome addition at a decent price. It makes clear the modest actual sample set of BBCSO vs the mic bloat. And it might keep people from creating those awful uncanny spaces/distances by arbitrarily mixing the mics, as so many of user demos seem prone to doing.


But that is not how Spitfire operates when looking at their product line. SSO Pro and SStO Pro both give you more mics and more instruments than the non professional versions. I have no problem with how Spitfire delineates their pro and standard versions. 

Plus, VSL charges way too much for their software. Everything is one big price gouge. Their new Synchron libraries are way overpriced for the value they offer and their older libraries should be 25% of their list prices. I’ve avoided buying VSL for more than a decade since they simply charge too much for their product line especially when so much of it is based on 20 years old samples and recordings. At least EastWest has dramatically reduced their prices over the years and offer 60% off sales. VSL needs to drop their list prices on their VI libraries by 75% or more if they want my biz.


----------



## ism

Virtuoso said:


>


Never underestimate Christian’s enthusiasm for bass flutes. I used to make this mistake. Until I bought SSW and everything changed.

(EDIT: It might sound like I’m joking, but, upon reflection, you know, I’m kind of not. I *love* the Bass flute in SSW)


----------



## ptram

ism said:


> Ok, lets admit not *everything* has changed. For instance:
> - The speed of light


There are theories saying it may vary. So, minus this one.

Paolo


----------



## cqd

I've been complaining about BBCSO since before it was cool..


----------



## ism

cqd said:


> I've been complaining about BBCSO since before it was cool..


I’m trying to remember a time when it wasn’t cool.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Virtuoso said:


>




Whilst funny, that's a bit unfair. The Core library for £ 49 or FREE - that's a big deal. Maybe not to us who have lots of things stuffed into our SSD's, but there are people in places where the currency is weak, wages are low, and for whom this is a real game changer. I really do take my hat off to the Spitfire crew for this, and also to the BBC for allowing the base version to be given away. I think they should be very proud of themselves.


----------



## Iswhatitis

Michael Antrum said:


> It is certainly an impressive achievement, but I'm afraid I can't help feeling a little let down that the new release is not the new updated version of the Symphonic Orchestra, which is now a year overdue. Having made that investment, I haven't felt any need to look at the BBCSO myself, though I'm pretty sure I will have a look at the base version.
> 
> The idea, and concept, however, is simply terrific - and I so wish it had been available when I started out. But I don't see the BBC SO as being the next thing on my radar - but i will give it a go.
> 
> The thing is that now I am tending to use Staffpad to compose - and then pushing it to Cubase and SSO etc and so in these straightened times I really don't see the need for another orchestral library.
> 
> So my congratulations to the Spitfire team - but please don't forget about the SSO - it's supposed to be your flagship product .....


SSO Pro should be out later this year.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Iswhatitis said:


> SSO Pro should be out later this year.



Is that a guess, or have you inside information ?


----------



## Zero&One

Iswhatitis said:


> Plus, VSL charges way too much for their software. Everything is one big price gouge.



Seriously? Have you actually seen BBO offerings? And the FREE version they just delivered without any promotion or other bollox. 
I'm sorry, but don't drag VSL into this, they're proven to be very customer focused dev and offer very affordable software.


----------



## Saxer

Still 1.0.8 for the library and 1.0.9 for the player here...


----------



## Iswhatitis

JPComposer said:


> I hear East West and OT are still aiming at the higher end of the market.


I own a lot of EastWest, but given their pricing I would only buy any new titles they come out with during a 60% or more sale and after a lot of time passes by as they will dramatically lower the retail list price of a library the longer it’s been out.


----------



## ism

ptram said:


> There are theories saying it may vary. So, minus this one.
> 
> Paolo


Ok, Fair point,... but still, happy to take bets on this one. I’m going to side with Einstein ... But I’ll give you good odds...


----------



## Iswhatitis

Michael Antrum said:


> Is that a guess, or have you inside information ?


It’s been on their website since last year in an article I read. If you email them they will tell you it’s planned for this Fall.


----------



## Zedcars

Saxer said:


> Still 1.0.8 for the library and 1.0.9 for the player here...


Tried refresh in the account menu?


----------



## Iswhatitis

Zero&One said:


> Seriously? Have you actually seen BBO offerings? And the FREE version they just delivered without any promotion or other bollox.
> I'm sorry, but don't drag VSL into this, they're proven to be very customer focused dev and offer very affordable software.


Affordable?! Are you living on Pluto?


----------



## Brasart

Saxer said:


> Still 1.0.8 for the library and 1.0.9 for the player here...



Email says it's rolling off over the next 24hrs, probably to avoid servers going up in flames


----------



## Manaberry

Michael Antrum said:


> Is that a guess, or have you inside information ?


 Actually it was supposed to be released last year.


----------



## John R Wilson

I personally think that this is a great idea and I'm sure that Spitfire will do very well from this. I do like the direction of opening it up to everyone and making it more accessible and this does target a large base of customers, targeting both complete beginners with the discovery library and also more experienced composers with the core and professional editions. I'm sure that this will be very good for individuals just starting out with orchestration or who want to learn. 

However, I must say as an owner of the full BBCSO I am disappointed that they don't appear to have included updates and improvements to the full, now professional version beyond a bass flute. Not sure if this is the case as I haven't downloaded the updates yet or looked at the release notes. Have they improved anything on the now pro version such as improved brass and better dynamic crossfading on some instruments or is it essentially the same as before? 

Also, I was really hoping for the piano!! Nonetheless, it is still nice to have the lower versions to use on a mobile setup / low spec computer and I like the idea that you can sketch out some ideas on a low spec laptop and then transfer this over to the professional version to refine or re-do parts were needed.


----------



## redlester

synkrotron said:


> Ah, right, thanks for that
> 
> Did you watch my video that I posted in the tech support forum? It's a long ten minutes but I've put time stamps in the description so you can jump to the broken presets.
> 
> @SpitfireSupport report that everything is fine at their end/
> 
> cheers
> 
> andy



I can't find your post on the Spitfire site, do you have a link?

No problems with Alev Lenz library on my system, all patches are working. Or is it just specific notes?


----------



## ism

Michael Antrum said:


> Whilst funny, that's a bit unfair. The Core library for £ 49 or FREE - that's a big deal. Maybe not to us who have lots of things stuffed into our SSD's, but there are people in places where the currency is weak, wages are low, and for whom this is a real game changer. I really do take my hat off to the Spitfire crew for this, and also to the BBC for allowing the base version to be given away. I think they should be very proud of themselves.


Not to mention the mode switching! 

It might sound like a small technical innovation, compared to, say 7 dynamic layers of trombones, but it really has the potentially alter the social space in which learning and collaboration and who knows what else can be done. 

I’m still working through the possibilities it might open up (and not just as a part of my usual mental gymnastics to convince myself to buy the library!).


----------



## Zedcars

Iswhatitis said:


> Affordable?! Are you living on Pluto?


Their recent Synchron BBO output has been very cheap.


----------



## Go To 11

Looks like the 3,3,9 Dynamic layers has been updated to 1,3,3 Dynamic layers. So the good news is Core gets the same as Pro! Bad news is the Pro never had 9 layers, (but we knew that).


----------



## Virtuoso

Michael Antrum said:


> Whilst funny, that's a bit unfair. The Core library for £ 49 or FREE - that's a big deal.


That would be a big deal, but unfortunately it's not the 23GB Core library that's $49/free, it's the 200MB Discover library. When ProjectSAM have a 1GB free orchestra and VSL have the 78GB Epic Orchestra 2, that 200MB seems a bit paltry in comparison (the all-too-common 'minimum viable product' strategy?). I get the point and I was genuinely excited when I thought Christian's hyperbole meant they were going all in and making Core free, but it now just seems like another marketing ploy.


----------



## Zero&One

Iswhatitis said:


> Affordable?! Are you living on Pluto?



I don't find 95 euro for a choir expensive. So no.
(that's really really new btw)


----------



## ism

Virtuoso said:


> That would be a big deal, but unfortunately it's not the 23GB Core library that's $49/free, it's the 200MB Discover library. When ProjectSAM have a 1GB free orchestra and VSL have the 78GB Epic Orchestra 2, that 200MB seems a bit paltry in comparison (the all-too-common 'minimum viable product' strategy?). I get the point and I was genuinely excited when I thought Christian's hyperbole meant they were going all in and making Core free, but it now just seems like another marketing ploy.



Lots of love for ProjectSAM, but I feel the comparison in Gb misses the most important point - that this is an entry to learning, and interoperates seamlessly with the full orchestra.


----------



## synkrotron

redlester said:


> I can't find your post on the Spitfire site, do you have a link?
> 
> No problems with Alev Lenz library on my system, all patches are working. Or is it just specific notes?



It is a support ticket, not a post. So I don't think you can see those.

I've posted a link to a YouTube video which demonstrates the issues in the VI-C tech support forum. There are timestamps in the video description so you can jump to the specific presets.

It's mainly whole presets that do not work but there is one preset that goes a bit pear shape as you play lower down the keyboard.

It appears that I'm not the only one, though. Another one of those strange things...


----------



## Wally Garten

Well, I actually find the "Mode Switching" capability pretty exciting, if it works. If I understand it correctly, the idea is that you can send your project back and forth between the different versions and it will "intelligently substitute" sounds as needed. I might well invest $350 to have the larger library on my desktop and the tiny little Discover library on my laptop and be able to pass off projects back and forth. I don't know if it changes everything, but that really adds a lot of flexibility.


----------



## 667

Ashermusic said:


> Frankly, the complaining about marketing hype is way more annoying than the marketing hype.


And yet you can't look away. Proof that complaining about marketing hype works!


----------



## Iswhatitis

Zero&One said:


> I don't find 95 euro for a choir expensive. So no.
> (that's really really new btw)


Are you referring to VSL Ganymede? It does not have ooohs, aaaahs, mmms, or other vowels nor a word builder. Ganymede is extremely limited and fixed as a choir and is not worth the 95 euros. Ganymede should be $40 or less given what it does, and all the Starter Editions are way overpriced, I know because I own many of them and they are not nearly as versatile as they should be for the money.

If one buys BBCSO during a bigger sale, then you could be paying less than $9 per instrument whereas VSL wants $50 to $200 per instrument and many of these instruments are based on 20 year old samples and recordings. That’s absurd!!


----------



## Eptesicus

Ashermusic said:


> Frankly, the complaining about marketing hype is way more annoying than the marketing hype.



I find the people complaining about the people complaining about the marketing hype even more annoying


----------



## Manaberry

Iswhatitis said:


> SSO Pro should be out later this year.




Well. Not sure of that anymore.

It says:


> *Note: Currently the additional microphones are only available in Chamber Strings Professional, with Symphonic Strings, Woodwinds and Brass Professional coming at a later date.*



But if you take a look at the cache from February, it says:



> *Note: Currently the additional microphones are only available in Chamber Strings Professional, with Symphonic Strings, Woodwinds and Brass Professional coming in 2020.*



So, in 2018 it was supposed to be released in 2019. We are in 2020, and now there is no date anymore. I guess they have other plans that will change the world... or not.


----------



## Zero&One

Iswhatitis said:


> Are you referring to VSL Ganymede?



As I said, keep VSL out of this yeah? Keep your crusade to their thread or start a new one.


----------



## Iswhatitis

Manaberry said:


> Well. Not sure of that anymore.
> 
> It says:
> 
> 
> But if you take a look at the cache from February, it says:
> 
> 
> 
> So, in 2018 it was supposed to be released in 2019. We are in 2020, and now there is no date anymore. I guess they have other plans that will change the world... or not.


Maybe it will take them longer to come out with SSO Pro then they thought at the time I asked them last year. Shyt happens. I was hoping for 2020 myself. I’m sure the Pro version will happen, who knows when then.


----------



## Wally Garten

ism said:


> Lots of love for ProjectSAM, but I feel the comparison in Gb misses the most important point - that this is an entry to learning, and interoperates seamlessly with the full orchestra.



Right. The ProjectSAM Free Orchestra is more in the nature of a bunch of discrete sounds/effects -- wonderful to use, but you can't really learn to write orchestral music with it.


----------



## Michel Simons

dzilizzi said:


> I finally caught up. Of course I will get behind as I write this.



I know that feeling. After some grocery shopping, going for a walk, watching the last episode of a series about Chagall presented by a former Bond villain, having lunch, trying to brush up on my software development knowledge and reading some Stephen King I came back to find 15 to 20 pages added to this thread.

Anyway, I filled out the survey and the first question was:

How would you describe yourself?
A. A tight git
B. A Cheapskate
C. Dutch
D. All of the above

I gues that has to be D.



Michael Antrum said:


> Whilst funny, that's a bit unfair. The Core library for £ 49 or FREE - that's a big deal. Maybe not to us who have lots of things stuffed into our SSD's, but there are people in places where the currency is weak, wages are low, and for whom this is a real game changer.



You left out the Dutch.


----------



## jaketanner

Iswhatitis said:


> The update is completely free so why is this a problem? Anytime a developer gives a free update with tons more samples is only good news!!


I said it was a problem? I said that the update or new core/pro BBC was no call for this level of hype. Updates are always good...but there has to be more to this announcement


----------



## jaketanner

Michael Antrum said:


> Whilst funny, that's a bit unfair. The Core library for £ 49 or FREE - that's a big deal. Maybe not to us who have lots of things stuffed into our SSD's, but there are people in places where the currency is weak, wages are low, and for whom this is a real game changer. I really do take my hat off to the Spitfire crew for this, and also to the BBC for allowing the base version to be given away. I think they should be very proud of themselves.


Where did you see Core is free? What’s free is a stripped down Discover version. Core is $349.


----------



## Banquet

I bought Core and am downloading now. The full version was too much for me but I liked the sound. As a hobbyist Core will be better. I have to say, though, for the same price as Albion series, we're only getting half the content (gb wise) and 1 mic position. That will probably be fine for me but another 1 or 2 mic positions on another 20-30gb would have felt better value for money. It may not seem to matter once I try it though...


----------



## Consona

This is so revolutionary I don't even get it. What's this library about?


----------



## ptram

From the point of view of BBC, a public education organization, the new scalable approach is more than game-changing. Any student, whichever the social status, can now access a high-quality orchestral library (despite with a3 instruments).

More advanced students can rely on Core, priced so low that a few week-ends as a waiter or sound technician can let one easily buy it. It's so good that even composers in less rich communities or countries of the Commonwealth (or anywhere in the world) can do great things with it.

I personally see this as really new. If they also allowed purchasing solo instruments separately, to be able to get them when really needed, the public mission would be complete.

Paolo


----------



## ism

Hmm, just wondering how would a staffpad version change everything even more? 

Imagining especially the ability to seamlessly mode switch back and forth not only between discovery and pro, but Logic and Staffpad


----------



## MauroPantin

Well, this is interesting. 

There are 2 things preventing me from getting BBCSO Core, which seems like a great deal. Performance in Windows is one of them, as I understand there were (and still are) people having trouble with the player. The other is the brass, it seems a tad restrained even with CC1 at 127. Nothing OTT can't improve but I'd rather wait a bit and see. Intro pricing ends May 31st so I'll be keeping an eye on the videos and everything else. I do have EWHO Gold, so I'm not sure how much this would really add to the palette.

BTW, I've been trying to respond to the thread for like half an hour now and it gets filled up faster than I can catch up. Crazy. Also the Cloudflare protection has been increasingly annoying.


----------



## cqd

It's just all so different now..

I don't know if I fit in in this new world..


----------



## Denkii

I just called my nephew to inform him he can grab a free orchestral sketch library with real recordings if he fills out the form so he doesn't have to use cracked malware infested synths with shitty wannabe orchestral soundbanks any more.
Can't remember the last time when I heard him being so excited.
Dude is 17 and still in school. Helps out delivering medicine by bike for a pharmacy every now and then but can't really afford anything too expensive yet.

Yeah. Didn't change my game but for this boy, a whole new world opened up.

Am I personally disappointed? Maybe a bit letdown, yes. Because of course I am narcissistic and I wanted this to be about me and my needs/hopes.

I can still acknowledge that this changes some things for some people and I think that's a good thing.


----------



## SupremeFist

Banquet said:


> I bought Core and am downloading now. The full version was too much for me but I liked the sound. As a hobbyist Core will be better. I have to say, though, for the same price as Albion series, we're only getting half the content (gb wise) and 1 mic position. That will probably be fine for me but another 1 or 2 mic positions on another 20-30gb would have felt better value for money. It may not seem to matter once I try it though...


But unlike an Albion you get full control over separate sections, so it's a real orchestrating library.


----------



## NoamL

Luke @Karma pls EXPLAIN


----------



## Virtuoso

Wally Garten said:


> Well, I actually find the "Mode Switching" capability pretty exciting, if it works. If I understand it correctly, the idea is that you can send your project back and forth between the different versions and it will "intelligently substitute" sounds as needed.


It seems like a project created in Pro will open in Discover with 'ghost articulations' (which are then approximated sonically and displayed with a ~) if you use something like Col Legno, which isn't included in Discover. You can then edit it and send it back to the originator where it will play correctly.

What you don't seem to be able to do (correct me if I'm wrong here) is create something _from scratch_ in Discover using those extended articulations and then have that open correctly in Pro. When you load a patch in Discover it just shows the base articulations, not the extended ones in Core & Pro.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Iswhatitis said:


> Maybe it will take them longer to come out with SSO Pro then they thought at the time I asked them last year. Shyt happens. I was hoping for 2020 myself. I’m sure the Pro version will happen, who knows when then.



Absolutely, when they launched BBC SO last year, I was convinced it was going to be the new SSO that was promised. And here we are again, always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

I think what happened is that the BBC SO opportunity came up unexpectedly, and who can blame Spitfire for grasping it. However, you are now on notice, Henson - get it sorted !


----------



## Architekton

This changed everything!!! Not...

I dont understand this silly marketing, really.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Michel Simons said:


> I know that feeling. After some grocery shopping, going for a walk, watching the last episode of a series about Chagall presented by a former Bond villain, having lunch, trying to brush up on my software development knowledge and reading some Stephen King I came back to find 15 to 20 pages added to this thread.
> 
> Anyway, I filled out the survey and the first question was:
> 
> How would you describe yourself?
> A. A tight git
> B. A Cheapskate
> C. Dutch
> D. All of the above
> 
> I gues that has to be D.
> 
> 
> 
> You left out the Dutch.



My father always said to me, "Son, you are a Yorkshireman. We're kind of like Scotsmen, but without their sense of generosity...,"


----------



## Iswhatitis

Zero&One said:


> As I said, keep VSL out of this yeah? Keep your crusade to their thread or start a new one.


I only mentioned VSL because the post I responded to mentioned VSL and compared VSL to Spitfire suggesting the way VSL does things is better. Go back and read the original post I was replying to, they were the ones who brought up VSL.


----------



## NoamL

I think THIS DOES change everything. It is the Oregon Trail of virtual instruments.

Every student can have this on their school computers without schools having to invest in "VI Machines." The teacher can import student projects and bounce them out through their BBCSO Core edition. Suddenly for a few hundred pounds you've put the equivalent of 40 or 60 licenses of an Albion or EWQLSO into the hands of schools.

This is cool as, @christianhenson 

For pro composers nothing has changed. I see this as an inferior-sounding sketching tool to an Albion or even EWQLSO and Berlin Inspire TBH. Which it pretty much would expect to be, running on a mere 200 mb!! Maybe it is of SOME use if you use BBCSO full edition _and_ are on the road all the time.


----------



## Iswhatitis

jaketanner said:


> I said it was a problem? I said that the update or new core/pro BBC was no call for this level of hype. Updates are always good...but there has to be more to this announcement


Since we all know they always get so excited like the climax finale in the movie Armageddon, are you really surprised that this excitement was Much To Do About Nothing?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Iswhatitis said:


> Since we all know they always get so excited like the climax finale in the movie Armageddon, are you really surprised that this excitement was Much Ado Do About Nothing?



Fixed that for you (sorry, couldn't resist !)


----------



## richhickey

Iswhatitis said:


> But that is not how Spitfire operates when looking at their product line. SSO Pro and SStO Pro both give you more mics and more instruments than the non professional versions. I have no problem with how Spitfire delineates their pro and standard versions.
> 
> Plus, VSL charges way too much for their software. Everything is one big price gouge. Their new Synchron libraries are way overpriced for the value they offer and their older libraries should be 25% of their list prices. I’ve avoided buying VSL for more than a decade since they simply charge too much for their product line especially when so much of it is based on 20 years old samples and recordings. At least EastWest has dramatically reduced their prices over the years and offer 60% off sales. VSL needs to drop their list prices on their VI libraries by 75% or more if they want my biz.



I didn't mention VSL in order to start a 'vs' war with SF fans, nor to talk about prices. But to be fair, Synchron charges half the 'full' price for _all_ the artics, half the mics, half the samples, SF charges half the 'pro' price for 75% of the artics, 1/20 the mics and 1/25th the samples. I'm glad you have no problem with SFs model. BTW I have an egg here, would you like to pay the price of a dozen eggs for it?

I just would prefer not to support the "mic position bloat" approach increasingly present at Spitfire. Thus I welcome Core, even at its price. I want all these companies to be sustainable and ultra-low prices are not in the best interest of the market. BTW, BBCSO Core is $14.50/GB of samples (on sale) and e.g. Synchron Strings Standard is $2.55/GB. Which one is the price gouge?

Spitfire's stratification is upgrade-oriented, (missing instruments) a basic marketing approach. Synchron's is undeniably more user friendly and generous, holding back for 'full' only those things (surround and 3d mics) that, well, only pros need. Even non-pros might need a bass clarinet.

Anyways, I still want an upgrade path for Core (which I bought) with one mix and _all_ the instruments/artics and you can't stop me from wanting that


----------



## ism

NoamL said:


> I think THIS DOES change everything. It is the Oregon Trail of virtual instruments.
> 
> Every student can have this on their school computers without schools having to invest in "VI Machines." The teacher can import student projects and bounce them out through their BBCSO Core edition. Suddenly for a few hundred pounds you've put the equivalent of 40 or 60 licenses of an Albion or EWQLSO into the hands of schools.
> 
> This is cool as, @christianhenson
> 
> For pro composers nothing has changed. I see this as an inferior-sounding sketching tool to an Albion or even EWQLSO and Berlin Inspire TBH. Which it pretty much would expect to be, running on a mere 200 mb!! Maybe it is of SOME use if you use BBCSO full edition _and_ are on the road all the time.



Yes. Although I wonder how straightforward the expressiveness of dynamic layers and legato will be to capture for a student with only discover. There will likely be some friction, i wonder how much?

Also, i believe BBC core is now cheaper than Inspire. So perhaps core v Inspire is the better comparison than Discover.


----------



## Eptesicus

ptram said:


> From the point of view of BBC, a public education organization, the new scalable approach is more than game-changing. Any student, whichever the social status, can now access a high-quality orchestral library (despite with a3 instruments).
> 
> More advanced students can rely on Core, priced so low that a few week-ends as a waiter or sound technician can let one easily buy it. It's so good that even composers in less rich communities or countries of the Commonwealth (or anywhere in the world) can do great things with it.
> 
> I personally see this as really new. If they also allowed purchasing solo instruments separately, to be able to get them when really needed, the public mission would be complete.
> 
> Paolo



The free/$49 orchestra is a nice touch, but with that limited set of articulations you cant do anything that will eventually be that useful with it. No doubt its a great sketching tool though.

Also, to be fair, the core price is hardly that revolutionary in terms of people being able to afford a whole orchestra. Hollywood Orchestra is on sale all the time:

https://www.jrrshop.com/eastwest-hollywood-orchestra-gold-edition - $266

https://www.jrrshop.com/eastwest-hollywood-orchestra-diamond - $372


It could be argued HOD is more expansive in its content than BBCSO Core as well.

The VSL special editions have been around for god knows how long (i bought volume 1 nearly 15 years ago i think). Again, a full orchestra for 295 euro





__





VI SPECIAL EDITIONVolume 1 - Vienna Symphonic Library


The Special Edition Volume 1 (“Essential Orchestra”) features the most common orchestral instruments and articulations in a resource-saving, affordable package. It contains 28 instruments and ensembles.




www.vsl.co.at







Honestly, i think many of you are getting swept up in their marketing hype. What they are offering is good and its nice to have a new shiny option for a cheap all in one orchestra, but it isnt breaking any boundaries or offering anything we haven't seen before.

They are implying it is game changing and revolutionary, when it really isn't.

At the end of the day, its people trying to sell things and make money from others.


----------



## Michel Simons

Michael Antrum said:


> My father always said to me, "Son, you are a Yorkshireman. We're kind of like Scotsmen, but without their sense of generosity...,"



A Scottish colleague once said to me something along the lines of if you see a coin lying on the floor and you step on someone's head instead of the coin then that is probably a Scotsman.


----------



## dzilizzi

mobiuscog said:


> It's currently back on sale at it's initial launch price.


Yes, but I wanted it at Wish List pricing 

I should say that I already have SSO, so it isn't a need.


----------



## Artemi

so now it


Manaberry said:


> Well. Not sure of that anymore.
> 
> It says:
> 
> 
> But if you take a look at the cache from February, it says:
> 
> 
> 
> So, in 2018 it was supposed to be released in 2019. We are in 2020, and now there is no date anymore. I guess they have other plans that will change the world... or not.



do you know which microphones they promised to add?


----------



## KallumS

It's now clear that the "deathbed opportunity" was adding bass flutes to Pro.


----------



## ism

Folks, lets all stop underestimating the power of the bass flute!


----------



## artomatic

This changes a thing or two for me. 
I do travel a bit so having Discovery on my laptop is very cool indeed (along with the bass flute!).


----------



## Wally Garten

Virtuoso said:


> It seems like a project created in Pro will open in Discover with 'ghost articulations' (which are then approximated sonically and displayed with a ~) if you use something like Col Legno, which isn't included in Discover. You can then edit it and send it back to the originator where it will play correctly.
> 
> What you don't seem to be able to do (correct me if I'm wrong here) is create something _from scratch_ in Discover using those extended articulations and then have that open correctly in Pro. When you load a patch in Discover it just shows the base articulations, not the extended ones in Core & Pro.



That's my expectation as well. But I still think it would be a useful workflow: sketch on the laptop, fill in on the desktop, then be able to go back to the laptop to mess around with an approximation, and then have your edits carry over back in the fuller version. Of course, it all depends on how seamless this is, but still -- a pretty neat idea.


----------



## dzilizzi

Virtuoso said:


>


But you are missing the point. It isn't about the library. It is about the ability for the system to automatically change to the closest alternative from level to level. Where you can have 3 levels of cost, but they will all work together. No one else does this.


----------



## Nemoy

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, but I wanted it at Wish List pricing
> 
> I should say that I already have SSO, so it isn't a need.



It's a good move on them to do this announcement/repackaging as the intro price is essentially the sale pricing. Also, I wonder if much of the issues brought up by the community here regarding the lackluster brass section has been addressed and improved upon for this "update".


----------



## Ruffian Price

Do we know _which mix_ is in Core?

e: okay, it's not named on the page, but it was in the manual!


----------



## Eptesicus

dzilizzi said:


> But you are missing the point. It isn't about the library. It is about the ability for the system to automatically change to the closest alternative from level to level. Where you can have 3 levels of cost, but they will all work together. No one else does this.



But what benefit does it give you?
If you have the pro, why would ever need or want to switch down? 

If you needed to save on resources you could just use one mic in the "pro" version anyway.


----------



## John R Wilson

Michael Antrum said:


> Absolutely, when they launched BBC SO last year, I was convinced it was going to be the new SSO that was promised. And here we are again, always the bridesmaid, never the bride.
> 
> I think what happened is that the BBC SO opportunity came up unexpectedly, and who can blame Spitfire for grasping it. However, you are now on notice, Henson - get it sorted !



Their focus may have shifted since the collaboration with the BBCSO. I think it has opened up different direction for them and does allow for great future development and potential. The BBCSO may be their future focus for both beginner, more experience and professional composers and thus the BBCSO Professional version may move toward being their flagship product.

Furthermore, They probably cant keep on sampling the same orchestras in air studios without changing direction at some point eventually. They have to move forward with a different approach. East West took the subscription model approach, Spitfire seems to be taking a different route.


----------



## x-dfo

Is the one mic mid ranged option actually feasible for production? I know people griped about the insane ram the first version ate up. Is it an acceptable trade-off?


----------



## paulmatthew

Ruffian Price said:


> Do we know _which mix_ is in Core?
> 
> e: okay, it's not named on the page, but it was in the manual!


It's probably a mix of close, decca tree and ambient mic. I wish the three were included in core. A little flexiblity with the mix would be nice.


----------



## Karma

NoamL said:


> Luke @Karma pls EXPLAIN


----------



## Wally Garten

Eptesicus said:


> But what benefit does it give you?
> If you have the pro, why would ever need or want to switch down?
> 
> If you needed to save on resources you could just use one mic in the "pro" version anyway.



Well, as discussed above, even if you own one of the bigger versions, it's nice to be able to install a cut-down version on a laptop and be able to move a single project back and forth seamlessly. I suppose if you are familiar with the Spitfire app's file storage system, and careful, you could remove mics and/or instruments from a Pro version installed on your laptop, but then you wouldn't get the benefit of the placeholding technology that would let you hot-swap with ease -- if you wanted to move projects back and forth, you'd be limited to whatever you could run on the weakest version.

Similarly, I would guess this also makes it possible to collaborate with friends/colleagues who have a "lesser" version.


----------



## Virtuoso

x-dfo said:


> Is the one mic mid ranged option actually feasible for production? I know people griped about the insane ram the first version ate up. Is it an acceptable trade-off?


Well the RAM usage (and voice count) is directly tied to the number of Mics and Articulations you have enabled. Violins 1 with all mics and artics uses 12.5GB and single notes will quickly push the voice count over 500 (I just tried it!), but you're never going to actually do that in real life.

Violins 1 with a single mic and all artics uses 969MB in Pro and 838MB in Core. If that's still too much, Pro has a Techniques Editor that allows you to customise your patches with just the artics you need (Core seems not to have this?) Maybe someone with Pro could create patches with just the artics you want and send it to you?


----------



## dzilizzi

Eptesicus said:


> But what benefit does it give you?
> If you have the pro, why would ever need or want to switch down?
> 
> If you needed to save on resources you could just use one mic in the "pro" version anyway.


For me? I can do this on my laptop on say the core version and move to my studio computer for the pro version and back. I probably won't use the Discover version. 

Of course, I don' own it yet. I just get frustrated when I try to use SSO on my laptop.


----------



## Ledwick

You guys know the Discover version has only 1 round robin and velocity layer right?


----------



## Eptesicus

Wally Garten said:


> Well, as discussed above, even if you own one of the bigger versions, it's nice to be able to install a cut-down version on a laptop and be able to move a single project back and forth seamlessly. I suppose if you are familiar with the Spitfire app's file storage system, and careful, you could remove mics and/or instruments from a Pro version installed on your laptop, but then you wouldn't get the benefit of the placeholding technology that would let you hot-swap with ease -- if you wanted to move projects back and forth, you'd be limited to whatever you could run on the weakest version.
> 
> Similarly, I would guess this also makes it possible to collaborate with friends/colleagues who have a "lesser" version.






dzilizzi said:


> For me? I can do this on my laptop on say the core version and move to my studio computer for the pro version and back. I probably won't use the Discover version.
> 
> Of course, I don' own it yet. I just get frustrated when I try to use SSO on my laptop.




This sounds good in theory, but how workable will it be?

You will likely just have to change everything (patches, CC data etc) anyway if you want it sound more authentic.

It isnt like you will be able to write something with just the sustain and stac patches on your laptop, and then magically have it transfer to some beautifully sequenced project using legato and all the other extended articulations you will need on your DAW. Everything will likely have to be changed anyway.

Honestly i can't see how what you are both describing works.

Edit - the above mostly applies to discover.

For Core, well i would just rather expand the storage in my laptop to be honest instead of have to change out articulations and cc data for articulations or instruments that need to be swapped out from core to pro when moving between the two machines.

So i suppose in effect it saves you shelling out on expanding your hard drive space which i guess is a small plus.


----------



## Michel Simons

Wally Garten said:


> Similarly, I would guess this also makes it possible to collaborate with friends/colleagues who have a "lesser" version.



My guess is it is mainly aimed at this scenario and not as much as "collaborating" with yourself, although that is probably more than just an added bonus.


----------



## Fleer

Well, if I were a Spitfire honcho, I’d be pretty, pretty pleased with most if not all posts in this thread. It’s like a major brainstorm in a nutshell.


----------



## Scalms

Ledwick said:


> You guys know the Discover version has only 1 round robin and velocity layer right?


 I was excited at first until I realized this. To be honest I don’t think I would install it even for free, it would be like going backward for me. I mean I got RRA palette for $100 last year and that has multiple of everything. I appreciate all Spitfire does but quite disappointed about this one. All the fanfare got my hopes up but in the end it’s my fault. It’s Spitfires call


----------



## Ruffian Price

paulmatthew said:


> It's probably a mix of close, decca tree and ambient mic. I wish the three were included in core. A little flexiblity with the mix would be nice.


They just mentioned in the second sidebar that it's exactly the Mix 1. So I guess I'll stick to keeping 2 and CloseWide on my drive, covers all my bases right now


----------



## gst98

Paul just said more instruments will come fro pro.


----------



## paulmatthew

Ruffian Price said:


> They just mentioned in the second sidebar that it's exactly the Mix 1. So I guess I'll stick to keeping 2 and CloseWide on my drive, covers all my bases right now


I'd like to know if there is a slider to adjust close/far on the mix in Core.


----------



## kitekrazy

Matt Damon said:


>


----------



## Wally Garten

Eptesicus said:


> It isnt like you will be able to write something with just the sustain and stac patches on your laptop, and then magically have it transfer to some beautifully sequenced project using legato and all the other extended articulations you will need on your DAW. Everything will likely have to be changed anyway.



Of course, but isn't that always the case?

I dunno. As someone who works with a crappy 2011 MBP half the time and has to constantly manage what libraries/patches I have on it so a project can match up with the bigger system... this seems nice!


----------



## robgb

I'm not one to shower undue praise on Spitfire, but from my POV this really IS a game changer. This kind of quality, a full orchestra with separate instruments, for $49. That's hard to beat.


----------



## NoamL

Scalms said:


> I was excited at first until I realized this. To be honest I don’t think I would install it even for free, it would be like going backward for me. I mean I got RRA palette for $100 last year and that has multiple of everything. I appreciate all Spitfire does but quite disappointed about this one. All the fanfare got my hopes up but in the end it’s my fault. It’s Spitfires call



TBQH if they are going to become a company that caters to more than just working composers, it would be nice if the next time they had a marketing campaign they quietly posted on VI-C to the effect of "you guys can disregard, this one's for the schools" or whatever.

Sure, then you don't get free Google-SEO-bumping from VI-C and Facebook, but you also get our undivided attention when you update your PRO product, SSO.


----------



## Saxer

Zedcars said:


> Tried refresh in the account menu?


Yepp. Probably I just have to wait.


----------



## Delboy

Looks like something you get or buy to make a start and then you have to fill in the seating boxes with purchased add on's making the whole Orchestra about £1000 ... was it worth all the hype ?


----------



## kitekrazy

robgb said:


> I'm not one to shower undue praise on Spitfire, but from my POV this really IS a game changer. This kind of quality, a full orchestra with separate instruments, for $49. That's hard to beat.



I think it sounds great for the file size. You don't have to offload this on a separate drive. Plus is appears to be simple to use.


----------



## easyrider

Eptesicus said:


> Honestly, i think many of you are getting swept up in their marketing hype. What they are offering is good and its nice to have a new shiny option for a cheap all in one orchestra, but it isnt breaking any boundaries or offering anything we haven't seen before.
> 
> They are implying it is game changing and revolutionary, when it really isn't.
> 
> At the end of the day, its people trying to sell things and make money from others.



They are a business and they offering a full orchestra for the price of a Plugin alliance Plugin...

This now will enable people on limited budgets to get into orchestration.

This is very cool....

Its a game changer for the industry....Especially for the education sector....with limited budgets...


----------



## Wally Garten

robgb said:


> I'm not one to shower undue praise on Spitfire, but from my POV this really IS a game changer. This kind of quality, a full orchestra with separate instruments, for $49. That's hard to beat.



Right, the separate instruments is what gets me. Plus this doesn't require Kontakt, unlike many of the other sketch orchestras. This seems like a really ideal package for a beginner/student/hobbyist/broke-ass artist.


----------



## Laptoprabbit

Awesome work guys! Even though I already own BBCSO this would have great to have in have in high school and still useful to share projects with others!


----------



## Alex Fraser

What constitutes “pro” software anyway? If Beyoncé can use Labs to produce a song for a Disney movie..where do you draw the line?

Alright..the Discovery product is limited if mock-ups are the name of the game, but Core should be highly capable in the right hands.


----------



## Fleer

Sorry for the OT but I don’t seem to be able to open the SA app with BBCSO Discover on my old laptop in MainStage. I only see LABS popping up in my DAW.


----------



## christianhenson

NoamL said:


> TBQH if they are going to become a company that caters to more than just working composers, it would be nice if the next time they had a marketing campaign they quietly posted on VI-C to the effect of "you guys can disregard, this one's for the schools" or whatever.
> 
> Sure, then you don't get free Google-SEO-bumping from VI-C and Facebook, but you also get our undivided attention when you update your PRO product, SSO.



We didn't.... someone else did.... this isn't our thread???


----------



## SupremeFist

Michel Simons said:


> My guess is it is mainly aimed at this scenario and not as much as "collaborating" with yourself, although that is probably more than just an added bonus.


It's huge for remote teaching (especially right now).


----------



## Alex Fraser

christianhenson said:


> We didn't.... someone else did.... this isn't our thread???


3 beers in? 😉


----------



## SupremeFist

robgb said:


> I'm not one to shower undue praise on Spitfire, but from my POV this really IS a game changer. This kind of quality, a full orchestra with separate instruments, for $49. That's hard to beat.


Yep. What's the minimum you have to spend to get separate sections from a competitor? $400?


----------



## Zero&One

christianhenson said:


> We didn't.... someone else did.... this isn't our thread???



Then keep communications clear. Otherwise there's just speculation and memes.

I fail to see how this thread would have turned out any different if SA had just said: 
there's a Free version coming out! And... wait for it... a Core version! Details to follow.


----------



## doctoremmet

christianhenson said:


> We didn't.... someone else did.... this isn't our thread???


Don’t let the whining get to you. People appear to be / act very entitled. For what it’s worth, I applaud you and especially the Discover option. Wish I could have had that in my youth, although the Kawai K1 strings DID sound pretty convincing back in 1988, next to the 4 operator FM ones


----------



## Nemoy

easyrider said:


> They are a business and they offering a full orchestra for the price of a Plugin alliance Plugin...
> 
> This now will enable people on limited budgets to get into orchestration.
> 
> This is very cool....
> 
> Its a game changer for the industry....Especially for the education sector....with limited budgets...



Yes. At least we will know that people who make amazing music with 1 round robin and 1 velocity layer are surely very talented.


----------



## Iswhatitis

ism said:


> Folks, lets all stop underestimating the power of the bass flute!


----------



## Richard Wilkinson

This is a great idea and a brilliant resource for many people. Some people get strangely pissy when a thing is released that isn't *exactly* made for them. I see it a lot in the videogames industry, it's very sad.


----------



## Diablo IV

_"
*APPLICATION SUCCESS!*
Thanks for completing your application! You will receive your copy of BBC Symphony Orchestra Discover in 2 weeks

"_

Can't wait!


----------



## Eptesicus

easyrider said:


> They are a business and they offering a full orchestra for the price of a Plugin alliance Plugin...
> 
> This now will enable people on limited budgets to get into orchestration.
> 
> This is very cool....
> 
> Its a game changer for the industry....Especially for the education sector....with limited budgets...



But realistically you won't be able to approach anything professional sounding with discover.

You don't need this to learn orchestration and there is no reason that you need a sample library to get into orchestration. You make it sound like poor people can't get into orchestration because they can't buy a sample library 

Its cool, but the education sector (if serious about teaching how to make orchestral music out of vsts) would be far better off training and teaching people with a tool that has more articulations and depth in my opinion.

With 1 round Robin, 1 dynamic layer, sustain and staccato it is ultimately going to sound like a slightly better / more modern sibelius sequence.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking what they have done at all and Discover will be semi useful for some. I, just like many others, don't get the marketing hype or how "all has changed". That's all.


----------



## synkrotron

NoamL said:


> or whatever.



I put myself in the "whatever" category then as I left school in 1976.


----------



## Nicholas

When I started out making music 13 years ago, I had two options for orchestral sounds: The ones included in HalionSonic SE (after saving for over a year to be able to afford Cubase Studio 4) or a VSL Cube cracked by someone at my school, full of malware and hardly usable for a beginner. I would have bought the shit out of this, and I already know a lot of young people who were just waiting for this. 

I love it.


----------



## Scamper

Virtuoso said:


> Violins 1 with a single mic and all artics uses 969MB in Pro and 838MB in Core.


That part I don't understand yet. Except for the mics (and few missing instruments), Core and Pro are confirmed to have the same content.
So why this difference in RAM usage? Maybe some overhead for unused mics? Does every instrument have this discrepancy?


----------



## AndyP

Maybe the update will solve the problem with BBCSO "Pro" on my MacBook. A bit earlier and I could have saved my experiments with deleting mics, and the purchase of a second mobile SSD for the full version.
I will probably only use the coreversion on the MacBook. 
Just switching to Pro when I am sitting at the other computer is very nice.

I don't need the doscover version.

What I hope for most from the update are less errors when I load the plugin. Everything else does not really benefit me. And hopefully my keyswitch problem is gone.


----------



## easyrider

Eptesicus said:


> But realistically you won't be able to approach anything professional sounding with discover.
> 
> You don't need this to learn orchestration and there is no reason that you need a sample library to get into orchestration. You make it sound like poor people can't get into orchestration because they can't buy a sample library
> 
> Its cool, but the education sector (if serious about teaching how to make orchestral music out of vsts) would be far better off training and teaching people with a tool that has more articulations and depth in my opinion.
> 
> With 1 round Robin, 1 dynamic layer, sustain and staccato it is ultimately going to sound like a slightly better / more modern sibelius sequence.
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking what they have done at all and Discover will be semi useful for some. I, just like many others, don't get the marketing hype or how "all has changed". That's all.



My students don’t need complexity....they don’t even need to write their own music for the videos they create....with discover they now have a choice to enhance their creativity and enrich their learning experience and confidence...

it’s not for pro users....it’s for everyone who can see value in it....

The pro and core versions are for more complex things...


----------



## thereus

Why did you all think that Christian was talking about a musical achievement when he was pontificating about what he would be thinking about during his final breath? This has not changed music. It has changed the VI market. If you are a school leaver and all your portfolio is in BBCSO Discover, do you buy Auddict or Red Audio or EW when you get to Uni? No. You buy BBCSO Core because you can take your portfolio with you. When you go pro, or earn enough money in some other career to buy a full product, do you buy VSL or Berlin or whatever? No, you buy BBCSO Professional because you can bring all your portfolio with you. It's an audacious competitive move to massively corner the market within half a decade or so. That's what is going to be making Christian smile on his death bed; his business win, his marketing prowess. Nothing to do with music. Perfidious Albion, indeed.


----------



## John R Wilson

Do you have to have discovery and core downloaded and installed on the same computer for the options to switch between modes. I've just updated and their is no options showing to swap to core and discovery mode.


----------



## curtisschweitzer

Eptesicus said:


> But realistically you won't be able to approach anything professional sounding with discover.



I mean, who want's to answer "challenge accepted" on this one? Because I'm sure that somebody _will_ be able to make something quite "professional" sounding with discover. (Which doesn't make discover the best option for professional composers by a long shot, but I've heard people do more with less).



Eptesicus said:


> You don't need this to learn orchestration and there is no reason that you need a sample library to get into orchestration. You make it sound like poor people can't get into orchestration because they can't buy a sample library



You're absolutely right that you don't need a sample library to get into orchestration, but that doesn't mean it isn't a really useful as a tool for doing so.



Eptesicus said:


> Its cool, but the education sector (if serious about teaching how to make orchestral music out of vsts) would be far better off training and teaching people with a tool that has more articulations and depth in my opinion.



I guess this depends on their budget. I think the already shockingly low sub-$1k price for pro made this likely for bigger institutions, but at $50 (or $0), individuals with limited resources can teach with this too. I don't see the downside.



Eptesicus said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking what they have done at all and Discover will be semi useful for some. I, just like many others, don't get the marketing hype or how "all has changed". That's all.



The biggest innovation here (at least to me) seems to be the fluid switching between versions. We all know you aren't going to program something in discover and have it show up in pro with flawless added programming, but the very fact that you can so easily overcome the hurdle of _getting the damn project to load_ is pretty neat. If I were running a college/university media lab, I'd have all my students install discover (or core if they can afford it), do work outside the lab, then come in and sweeten it in our copy of pro on a powerful machine. That sort of workflow wasn't _impossible_ before, but it is several magnitudes of order easier now.


----------



## ism

thereus said:


> Why did you all think that Christian was talking about a musical achievement when he was mulling about what he would be thinking about during his final breath? This has not changed music. It has changed the VI market. If you are a school leaver and all your portfolio is in BBCSO Discover, do you buy Auddict or Red Audio or EW when you get to Uni? No. You buy BBCSO Core because you can take your portfolio with you. When you go pro, or earn enough money in some other career to buy a full product, do you buy VSL or Berlin or whatever? No, you buy BBCSO Professional because you can bring all your portfolio with you. It's an audacious competitive move to massively corner the market within half a decade or so. That's what is going to be making Christian smile on his death bed; his business win, his marketing prowess. Nothing to do with music. Perfidious Albion, indeed.



Yes, its smart marketing.

This is the single most cynical interpreting imaginable though.


----------



## thereus

ism said:


> Yes, its smart marketing.
> 
> This is the single most cynical interpreting imaginable though.



I'll take that as the compliment it was intended to be.


----------



## Glagoliath

Denkii said:


> I just called my nephew to inform him he can grab a free orchestral sketch library with real recordings if he fills out the form so he doesn't have to use cracked malware infested synths with shitty wannabe orchestral soundbanks any more.
> Can't remember the last time when I heard him being so excited.




Mmmmm, the excitement of staccatoing with 1 round robin, you gotta love it.




This is what this thing is:

This is nothing else but a teaser so that people, beginners start using it and then one day they go:
"Oh, I made so much music with this shit, now I want to upgrade and then all those missing things will appear when I buy the real thing".

That's what it is.
Spitfire Audio are free to wallow this into whatever marketing story they want, but that's what actually is.

They want "drug addicts" who will want a stronger shot in their vein sooner or later, it's just a matter of time.


----------



## Laptoprabbit

Nicholas said:


> When I started out making music 13 years ago, I had two options for orchestral sounds: The ones included in HalionSonic SE (after saving for over a year to be able to afford Cubase Studio 4) or a VSL Cube cracked by someone at my school, full of malware and hardly usable for a beginner. I would have bought the shit out of this, and I already know a lot of young people who were just waiting for this.
> 
> I love it.


For me it was GM soundfonts... loaded into MuseScore


----------



## Ihnoc

I think this is great. The original release felt a little excessive with all the microphone positions for me, where I already have a lot of basses (snigger) covered, and just wanted more sample options. Appreciate people aren't interested in it, but then I'm not interested in the millionth 'sinamatik sownd dasain' library that I find just as prevalent marketing for.

Core is very tempting and I feel like Spitfire have given an incredible library offering in Core alone. If Pro hadn't been released first I think we'd all be falling over ourselves now. Split sections with the articulation depth at £400? Very nice contender.

Not to mention Discover, which I think frankly offers a huge amount of possibility for people. I had Komplete 8 when I started looking at orchestral libraries 5 years ago and this would have been a welcome entry point.

Does it change everything ever? Maybe not for those of us invested in lots of tools already, but I think it's pretty cool.


----------



## Eptesicus

ism said:


> Yes, its smart marketing.
> 
> This is the single most cynical interpreting imaginable though.




He's not wrong though...


----------



## NoamL

christianhenson said:


> We didn't.... someone else did.... this isn't our thread???



Yes Christian, but you also sent out this announcement to anyone who owns a Spitfire product. Maybe another idea is to develop different mailing lists (edu/pro) if you diversify your company? just a suggestion. That way you build anticipation with the best-targeted audience for the product release.


----------



## Jett Hitt

christianhenson said:


> We didn't.... someone else did.... this isn't our thread???


As disappointed as I am that my version got dubbed "Pro" and that you didn't fix the horn AND that there is still no piano, it is a truly magnanimous thing that you have done here. This is great for the future of music. Now that you've done your good deed for the year, please fix the horn.


----------



## Eptesicus

Zero&One said:


> Then keep communications clear. Otherwise there's just speculation and memes.





NoamL said:


> Yes Christian, but you also sent out this announcement to anyone who owns a Spitfire product. Maybe another idea is to develop different mailing lists (edu/pro) if you diversify your company? just a suggestion.



Exactly.

Why not:

"we have something really exciting for the education sector coming on the 7th May!"

Then you haven't got loads of your main customer base going "oh" once they realise the reveal is just something that will only really benefit young starting out students.


----------



## Fleer

For me, what makes this a game changer, is that many different people, notwithstanding their station in life, will be able to interact and collaborate. Kudos, Mr Henson.


----------



## KallumS

Wonder what Daniel James thinks about all this


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

paulmatthew said:


> I was interested in Core until I saw it only has one mic mix. If it included close, tree, and ambient separately I would have gotten it



For what it’s worth, I’ve completed several projects with BBCSO since it’s release, and I only use the default mic mix. Not sure what that means in the Core version, but it might be adequate for most needs.


----------



## Hadrondrift

Diablo3 said:


> _Thanks for completing your application! You will receive your copy of BBC Symphony Orchestra Discover in 2 weeks_


Almost failed the survey. I couldn't name a favorite YouTuber, because I have none.


----------



## Virtuoso

Scamper said:


> That part I don't understand yet. Except for the mics (and few missing instruments), Core and Pro are confirmed to have the same content.
> So why this difference in RAM usage? Maybe some overhead for unused mics? Does every instrument have this discrepancy?


Beats me. 

Same with Flute - 602MB vs 528MB, Oboe 532 vs 465, Clarinet 559 vs 496, Bassoon 542 vs 485, Horn 572 vs 509 etc etc...


----------



## thereus

Glagoliath said:


> Mmmmm, the excitement of staccatoing with 1 round robin, you gotta love it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what this thing is:
> 
> This is nothing else but a teaser so that people, beginners start using it and then one day they go:
> "Oh, I made so much music with this shit, now I want to upgrade and then all those missing things will appear when I buy the real thing".
> 
> That's what it is.
> Spitfire Audio are free to wallow this into whatever marketing story they want, but that's what actually is.
> 
> They want "drug addicts" who will want a stronger shot in their vein sooner or later, it's just a matter of time.




This is the VI equivalent of the IPhone SE. The problem that Christian is trying to solve is market saturation. We have all paid once for his product and expect to get support and upgrades for life. The only income is going to come from new punters. They need a clear way to attract the new punters into the funnel and convey them along through towards the high value items without losing them to VSL and Berlin along the way. If you want to IPO, you need to be able to justify your top line. How else are they going to do it? I don't see anyone else being able to. Expect more of this three-level approach. SStO and SSO, and the choir and whatever comes next. I think its very sensible for them and I can understand why they are excited, but it means nothing to us at all except a continuing move in the industry away from innovation and towards re-polishing the same turds to keep the pipeline flowing. Think Apple. Roll on AI, but be careful what you wish for. The next actual innovation will start to automate the composing also.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

KallumS said:


> Wonder what Daniel James thinks about all this



And let’s not forget our old BBCSO pal Staypuft


----------



## Eptesicus

curtisschweitzer said:


> I mean, who want's to answer "challenge accepted" on this one? Because I'm sure that somebody _will_ be able to make something quite "professional" sounding with discover. (Which doesn't make discover the best option for professional composers by a long shot, but I've heard people do more with less).
> 
> 
> 
> You're absolutely right that you don't need a sample library to get into orchestration, but that doesn't mean it isn't a really useful as a tool for doing so.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this depends on their budget. I think the already shockingly low sub-$1k price for pro made this likely for bigger institutions, but at $50 (or $0), individuals with limited resources can teach with this too. I don't see the downside.
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest innovation here (at least to me) seems to be the fluid switching between versions. We all know you aren't going to program something in discover and have it show up in pro with flawless added programming, but the very fact that you can so easily overcome the hurdle of _getting the damn project to load_ is pretty neat. If I were running a college/university media lab, I'd have all my students install discover (or core if they can afford it), do work outside the lab, then come in and sweeten it in our copy of pro on a powerful machine. That sort of workflow wasn't _impossible_ before, but it is several magnitudes of order easier now.




On your first point, yes no doubt you can make something very specific sound good with it. But it will limit you massively in terms of creativity whilst still wanting realism/for it to sound musical. 

The rest I will give you. This does seem to offer something good for young students starting out.


----------



## Nicholas

Eptesicus said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Why not:
> 
> "we have something really exciting for the education sector coming on the 7th May!"
> 
> Then you haven't got loads of your main customer base going "oh" once they realise the reveal is just something that will only really benefit young starting out students.



yeah... why „experience a legend“ and not „experience an overpriced car that pollutes the air even more than we tell you“?


----------



## SupremeFist

Eptesicus said:


> But realistically you won't be able to approach anything professional sounding with discover.
> 
> You don't need this to learn orchestration and there is no reason that you need a sample library to get into orchestration. You make it sound like poor people can't get into orchestration because they can't buy a sample library
> 
> Its cool, but the education sector (if serious about teaching how to make orchestral music out of vsts) would be far better off training and teaching people with a tool that has more articulations and depth in my opinion.
> 
> With 1 round Robin, 1 dynamic layer, sustain and staccato it is ultimately going to sound like a slightly better / more modern sibelius sequence.
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking what they have done at all and Discover will be semi useful for some. I, just like many others, don't get the marketing hype or how "all has changed". That's all.


When I was taking orchestration lessons with a proper composer back in the day, I was making mockups to check my ear with the builtin sounds on a Yamaha W7 workstation keyboard, so yeah something like Discover would have been absolutely amazing.


----------



## John R Wilson

Jett Hitt said:


> As disappointed as I am that my version got dubbed "Pro" and that you didn't fix the horn AND that there is still no piano, it is a truly magnanimous thing that you have done here. This is great for the future of music. Now that you've done your good deed for the year, please fix the horn.



I feel similar. It is a really good thing and I do feel its a good direction for them to be taking. However, I did feel a little disappointed as well that things haven't been improved for the pro version, it would have been good to see the horn fixed and a piano.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm tempted to buy the BBCSO Core version at $349. One mic mix option, reasonable library size of 24 GB , a good amount of articulations, and dynamics, before May 31st, Anyone else tempted to get the Core version ?


----------



## x-dfo

Wolfie2112 said:


> For what it’s worth, I’ve completed several projects with BBCSO since it’s release, and I only use the default mic mix. Not sure what that means in the Core version, but it might be adequate for most needs.


Yeah core, if it's more usable than EWHO Gold, is certainly looking like a good value.


----------



## Laptoprabbit

John R Wilson said:


> I feel similar. It is a really good thing and I do feel its a good direction for them to be taking. However, I did feel a little disappointed as well that things haven't been improved for the pro version, it would have been good to see the horn fixed and a piano.



Can anyone who's finished downloading comment on the changes to horns a4 and the bass flute?


----------



## robgb

SupremeFist said:


> Yep. What's the minimum you have to spend to get separate sections from a competitor? $400?


$149. Amadeus Symphony Orchestra. Sounds great.


----------



## ptram

ism said:


> Folks, lets all stop underestimating the power of the bass flute!


Not much, actually. If someone turns page in the orchestra, the bass flute may end up masked.

Paolo


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

x-dfo said:


> Yeah core, if it's more usable than EWHO Gold, is certainly looking like a good value.



I use HO Gold as well. Totally different sound from BBCSO, but each has its firm place in my templates.


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> But realistically you won't be able to approach anything professional sounding with discover.



I'm guessing that Jeff Beck could make a $40 Amazon guitar sound like gold. The only thing that separates a wannabe from a professional is the quality of their music, not the quality of the instruments they use. If John Powell used a kazoo on his latest soundtrack, everyone would be scrambling to buy one.


----------



## korgscrew2000

KallumS said:


> Wonder what Daniel James thinks about all this



He's working on a 4 hour walk through.


----------



## easyrider

muziksculp said:


> I'm tempted to buy the BBCSO Core version at $349. One mic mix option, reasonable library size of 24 GB , a good amount of articulations, and dynamics, before May 31st, Anyone else tempted to get the Core version ?



Me.


----------



## Puzzlefactory

What’s the plugin like for this?

I’ve been using the originals series recently and been getting a lot of audio drop outs.


----------



## Jaap

Laptoprabbit said:


> Can anyone who's finished downloading comment on the changes to horns a4 and the bass flute?



Maybe I am extremely tired and dunno how it was with the original a4 horn (never using the horns from BBC SO), but this thing is horribly out of tune... Was lining it up with a piano and that just didn't work.Tested it quickly with a flute from BBC SO in loading another patch in that instance and that is fine, same with trumpet and violin and even solo horn sounds better tuned. Am I missing something or did I do something wrong or do more have this?

Edit: Nevermind, seemed to be an issue with the instance I had loaded, another instance worked out fine and no tuning issues.
In regards to the horn a4, it still won't be my choice, but its better though, the transition is much smoother.


----------



## angeruroth

x-dfo said:


> Yeah core, if it's more usable than EWHO Gold, is certainly looking like a good value.


?!
It is (was?) usable. It's not a modern library, that's for sure, but it was awesome not so long ago.
Is this better? I think it is (I'll try it soon enough) but times change, tech evolves, and looks like this people may know a thing or two about sampling


----------



## easyrider

KallumS said:


> Wonder what Daniel James thinks about all this



Who cares


----------



## easyrider

Hadrondrift said:


> Almost failed the survey. I couldn't name a favorite YouTuber, because I have none.



Check our Rick Beatos channel.....it’s a gem....


----------



## ag75

NoamL said:


> Yes Christian, but you also sent out this announcement to anyone who owns a Spitfire product. Maybe another idea is to develop different mailing lists (edu/pro) if you diversify your company? just a suggestion. That way you build anticipation with the best-targeted audience for the product release.


*I’m not interested in this product for myself but I have already emailed it to several friends and students who could benefit from it. So that’s maybe not a good idea to separate out marketing...*


----------



## Stringtree

I referred two.


----------



## El Buhdai

Props to Spitfire for fixing the way BBCSO is presented. I'm a fairly new composer who's just now buying enough libraries to cancel ComposerCloud, so keep that in mind when I say this:

It's incredible how anyone at Spitfire could have thought a $1000, 600GB sample library is a "starting point" for anyone but the most financially privileged newcomers.

Your average person wanting to dip their toe into VI-Composing isn't gonna have $1000 to throw at a library, nor a (even more expensive) computer good enough to store and use that library efficiently.

BBCSO should have launched with all three of these purchasing options available, and I have to commend them for making the core version so affordable. Even with that, they still need to implement a "rent to own" monthly payment system, or something that allows piecemeal payments because if I were new today, I would still go with ComposerCloud.

$300 for a full orchestra is a great price in the eyes of basically all existing composers, but when you're new to composing, a $300 piece of software seems absurd. Since we're used to paying that much or more for libraries, it may be hard to see that.

With all that said, Discovery is an excellent deal for newcomers considering it's free if you don't mind the wait, and BBCSO Core is a much better fit for the phrase "starting point". I wish this was an option when I was brand new to composing.


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> I'm guessing that Jeff Beck could make a $40 Amazon guitar sound like gold. The only thing that separates a wannabe from a professional is the quality of their music, not the quality of the instruments they use. If John Powell used a kazoo on his latest soundtrack, everyone would be scrambling to buy one.



This is a terrible analogy and makes little logical sense. The two aren't comparable.

The quality of your music will be directly impacted by the limitations of this instrument.

Its like saying saying a great cello player won't be limited by being given a cello with just one string.

Could he still make some sort of music? Sure, but it won't be anywhere near as good as if he was given a proper working cello.

You simply can't write much good orchestral music with one dynamic layer, one round Robin , sustain and staccato. Just think how limited that is compared to what an actual orchestra can do.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Question:
Where does the new Bass Flute go in written score notation?
Is it between Alto Flute and Oboe?


----------



## cqd

El Buhdai said:


> $300 for a full orchestra is a great price in the eyes of basically all existing composers, but when you're new to composing, a $300 piece of software seems absurd. Since we're used to paying that much or more for libraries, it may be hard to see that.



I dunno..I have difficulty viewing the £300 price for core as being particularly altruistic after the way they hyped up the "pro" library before it was released..Like, I honestly saw a guy going "Im after spending 700 pounds on this library, I dont think I'm musical"..The core library should have been an option from day one..


----------



## AndyP

cqd said:


> I dunno..I have difficulty viewing the £300 price for core as being particularly altruistic after the way they hyped up the "pro" library before it was released..Like, I honestly saw a guy going "Im after spending 700 pounds on this library, I dont think I'm musical"..The core library should have been an option from day one..


Meanwhile many providers do this. Project Sam, Audio Imperia... actually it should be the other way around. First test the simple version and if you like it you can upgrade.
On the other hand, they first process the existing content and then slim down. This makes more sense from the provider's point of view. Not so much for the user.


----------



## easyrider

Eptesicus said:


> This is a terrible analogy and makes little logical sense. The two aren't comparable.
> 
> The quality of your music will be directly impacted by the limitations of this instrument.
> 
> Its like saying saying a great cello player won't be limited by being given a cello with just one string.
> 
> Could he still make some sort of music? Sure, but it won't be anywhere near as good as if he was given a proper working cello.
> 
> You simply can't write much good orchestral music with one dynamic layer, one round Robin , sustain and staccato. Just think how limited that is compared to what an actual orchestra can do.



hmmmm....I’m going to say this is a BS post....someone could easily write a beautiful melody with discovery and develop it....

So much snobbery is in this thread it’s unreal.....

And so much epeen on template and track count....


----------



## ChoPraTs

It is a pity that this good library does not include any muted articulations for the the brass section... I think today it is something basic in an orchestral work. And I think this is even more necessary in a library who intend to be called "Pro". Hopefully the guys at Spitfire will include some muted articulations in a future update for BBC Symphony Orchestra, is the only thing that I miss.


----------



## SupremeFist

Eptesicus said:


> This is a terrible analogy and makes little logical sense. The two aren't comparable.
> 
> The quality of your music will be directly impacted by the limitations of this instrument.



You are confusing quality of music with quality of audio deliverable.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Some outright strangeness in this thread.

It's been pretty obvious for days that today would be about some form of lower tier BBCSO product. Nothing in the Spitfire marketing has implied anything else. Some of the expectations have been pie-in-the-sky out there. It's no wonder there's disappointment, but it's a stretch to pin the blame on Spitfire.


----------



## Anders Wall

Manuel Stumpf said:


> Question:
> Where does the new Bass Flute go in written score notation?
> Is it between Alto Flute and Oboe?


Yup.
So from top you get piccolo, flute, alto and bass flute.
Then the oboes, the clarinets and last the bassoons.

In conductor scores, some have the piccolo beneath the first flute.
This is because usually the third player doubles on piccolo.

Best,
Anders


----------



## Nemoy

ChoPraTs said:


> It is a pity that this good library does not include any muted articulations for the the brass section... I think today it is something basic in an orchestral work. And I think this is even more necessary in a library who intend to be called "Pro". Hopefully the guys at Spitfire will include some muted articulations in a future update for BBC Symphony Orchestra, is the only thing that I miss.



Great you bring this up. I've been asking about muted brass for months now and hoped they would include this in the next update. Spitfire, we need muted brass!! But we got one instrument added only. Well, at least its something as there are those still waiting for SSO updates.


----------



## dzilizzi

Anders Wall said:


> Yup.
> So from top you get piccolo, flute, alto and bass flute.
> Then the oboes, the clarinets and last the bassoons.
> 
> In conductor scores, some have the piccolo beneath the first flute.
> This is because usually the third player doubles on piccolo.
> 
> Best,
> Anders


I was just thinking about it. Oboes are pretty boring. They don't have multiple versions. I have Bass Clarinets and Contra-bass Clarinets and Bassoons. And just the oboe. No alto, no bass, no contra-bass. 

Though there is the cor anglais, which I understand is a bent neck oboe. Okay, maybe not so boring......


----------



## Jett Hitt

korgscrew2000 said:


> He's working on a 4 hour walk through.





cqd said:


> I dunno..I have difficulty viewing the £300 price for core as being particularly altruistic after the way they hyped up the "pro" library before it was released..Like, I honestly saw a guy going "Im after spending 700 pounds on this library, I dont think I'm musical"..The core library should have been an option from day one..


Yep, there are definitely things this library should have before it gets the pro moniker, i.e. muted brass and a horn. I had so hoped that this was a pro version. Instead, it just got named “pro.”


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> You simply can't write much good orchestral music with one dynamic layer, one round Robin , sustain and staccato. Just think how limited that is compared to what an actual orchestra can do.



Sure you can. People were doing it long before we had great libraries. Just heard an interview with Elfman and he was writing mockups on synthesizers for chrissakes. Not only was he a full fledged professional, he went on to become one of our great American film composers. Imagine if he had said, gee, I can't write any good orchestral music with this severely limited keyboard. I give up.

To say you can't do anything professional with something like Discover is patently absurd. Elfman probably would have killed to have something like it back in 1988. And someone with real imagination and real talent, can make the most of the most limited tools in their arsenal.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

I have to admit with all said and done, the price might seem high to some... but remember how much an orchestra costs, the fact the playing musicians are not hired as much anymore and also that a recording session of this magnitude is nothing short of EXPENSIVE 

Of course we want the price of things to come down, but this is a living to these developers.

As a private company, they do not have to do this


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> I was just thinking about it. Oboes are pretty boring. They don't have multiple versions. I have Bass Clarinets and Contra-bass Clarinets and Bassoons. And just the oboe. No alto, no bass, no contra-bass.
> 
> Though there is the cor anglais, which I understand is a bent neck oboe. Okay, maybe not so boring......


The oboe in BBCSO is beautiful though. The cor angais in this library not quite as nice but still useful to have.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

x-dfo said:


> Yeah core, if it's more usable than EWHO Gold, is certainly looking like a good value.


I have to admit that I am looking forward to what comes of EW Hollywood Opus this Fall/next Fall/2022


----------



## Eptesicus

easyrider said:


> hmmmm....I’m going to say this is a BS post....someone could easily write a beautiful melody with discovery and develop it....
> 
> So much snobbery is in this thread it’s unreal.....
> 
> And so much epeen on template and track count....



?

How is it BS? Its absolutely true.

Whats the point in the core and pro versions if it isn't!?

It has nothing to do with snobbery. Discover will be a great tool to sketch some ideas and no doubt you could write something very specific and simple with it and make it sound good, but to think you can emulate the entire pallete that an orchestra gives you with it is mistaken.


----------



## Alex Fraser

robgb said:


> Sure you can. People were doing it long before we had great libraries. Just heard an interview with Elfman and he was writing mockups on synthesizers for chrissakes. Not only was he a full fledged professional, he went on to become one of our great American film composers. Imagine if he had said, gee, I can't write any good orchestral music with this severely limited keyboard. I give up.
> 
> To say you can't do anything professional with something like Discover is patently absurd. Elfman probably would have killed to have something like it back in 1988. And someone with real imagination and real talent, can make the most of the most limited tools in their arsenal.


Right on. And who's to say it needs to be used for mockups? It looks to be a ninja tool for adding a sprinkling of the orchestra onto pop/urban/edm etc.

VIC for sure has a one track mind.


----------



## ism

Eptesicus said:


> Its like saying saying a great cello player won't be limited by being given a cello with just one string.
> 
> Could he still make some sort of music? Sure, but it won't be anywhere near as good as if he was given a proper working cello.




A great cellist could make incredible music with a single string. It would be a subset of the great music s/he could make with all four strings. 

But the limiting relation is the subset, not the greatness of music within that limited subset.


----------



## Jaap

Didn't install the Core version as I don't have use for it, but was curious about the Discover version and for the 200mb that it is, it's freaking good to be honest. That is quite an achievement to get that sound with only 200mb! That makes the Discover version quite a deal to be honest!

Even when I started a long time ago, I wished something like this with such a small footprint was available with such quality. Amazing for starters, students or when you just need some general orchestral sounds, and of course for laptops etc


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> Discover will be a great tool to sketch some ideas and no doubt you could write something very specific and simple with it and make it sound good, but to think you can emulate the entire pallete that an orchestra gives you with it is mistaken.


This is a straw man argument. No one has ever said this.


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> Sure you can. People were doing it long before we had great libraries. Just heard an interview with Elfman and he was writing mockups on synthesizers for chrissakes. Not only was he a full fledged professional, he went on to become one of our great American film composers. Imagine if he had said, gee, I can't write any good orchestral music with this severely limited keyboard. I give up.
> 
> To say you can't do anything professional with something like Discover is patently absurd. Elfman probably would have killed to have something like it back in 1988. And someone with real imagination and real talent, can make the most of the most limited tools in their arsenal.




Again you are conflating two different things.

Can you write good music with anything? Yes.

Can you write an intricate, realistic sounding orchestral piece with anything. No. 

We are talking about emulating an orchestra here (ie the whole purpose of an orchestral library).

Yes you can write a fantastic piece of music with Discover, with all the notes in the all the write places but it wont sound like an orchestra is playing it.

Its hard enough to even get close with a massive library with loads of dynamic layers, articulations etc.

I think this argument always get confused.

Orchestral sample libraries are used to emulate a real orchestra in the best way possible. If they weren't, they may as well call all the instruments completely different names and have it called a completely different instrument (ie are you writing for violins...or are you writing for BBC Discover violins...)


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Anders Wall said:


> Yup.
> So from top you get piccolo, flute, alto and bass flute.
> Then the oboes, the clarinets and last the bassoons.
> 
> In conductor scores, some have the piccolo beneath the first flute.
> This is because usually the third player doubles on piccolo.


Thanks. Just updating the BBCSO Studio One template.
Though I just found out (again, haha ) there is no Alto Flute in BBCSO 
So the Bass Flute comes in handy.


----------



## MauroPantin

Intro pricing is tempting but I think I will be buying either the core version of BBCSO or EWHO Opus, which means I will definitely wait until the new HO comes out. For now, Discovery will work as a good approach to test drive the workflow. I have much better stuff in my template at the moment but I'll add it and see how often I reach for it to sketch something out.


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> This is a straw man argument. No one has ever said this.



It isn't a straw man because that is the sole purpose of an orchestral library (see my previous post)!.

Again, will you be writing for violins and flutes, or will you be writing for BBC Discover Violins and flutes? That is the difference and why some always completely fail to understand the often common "realism" argument on here.

It is a difficult thing to conceptualise.


----------



## NoamL

dzilizzi said:


> I was just thinking about it. Oboes are pretty boring. They don't have multiple versions. I have Bass Clarinets and Contra-bass Clarinets and Bassoons. And just the oboe. No alto, no bass, no contra-bass.
> 
> Though there is the cor anglais, which I understand is a bent neck oboe. Okay, maybe not so boring......




This is one of my favorite instruments but it is super rare. There is an ensemble of them in Albion III Iceni but it doesn't fully represent the lyrical capabilities.


----------



## ism

NoamL said:


> This is one of my favorite instruments but it is super rare. There is an ensemble of them in Albion III Iceni but it doesn't fully represent the lyrical capabilities.



Wow that's really wonderfully lyrical. I want one.


----------



## ism

Eptesicus said:


> It isn't a straw man because that is the sole purpose of an orchestral library (see my previous post)!.



Or the purpose could be to capture the gist of your composition, and sound good enough until you can afford a better library. To assist in imagining how great your composition is going to be until you can get a library. 

Granted the discover samples are limited, but they do sound great.


----------



## FuzyDunlop

robgb said:


> This is a straw man argument. No one has ever said this.


Changing the goalposts as well.


----------



## Eptesicus

ism said:


> Or the purpose could be to capture the gist of your composition, and sound good enough until you can afford a better library. To assist in imagining how great your composition is going to be until you can get a library.
> 
> Granted the discover samples are limited, but they do sound great.



Which is what i have consistently stated it would be good at


----------



## Eptesicus

FuzyDunlop said:


> Changing the goalposts as well.



Actually i think you will find the goalposts were moved on me.

He said "someone could easily write a beautiful melody with... "

I never said you couldn't do this. But then you can write a beautiful melody, note wise with almost any tonal instrument. Or you can write it down on paper. Whether it sounds close to a real orchestra playing it is my argument.


----------



## ism

Eptesicus said:


> Which is what i have consistently stated it would be good at


I guess the point I'm trying to make is not that I disagree with you on the limitations, but that the innovation here is more about the social location of the person using the library.


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> It isn't a straw man because that is the sole purpose of an orchestral library (see my previous post)!.


That is NOT the sole purpose of an orchestral library. Where you got that idea is a mystery to me. And since no one here has even suggested that it could replace a real orchestra, your argument is moot.


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> That is NOT the sole purpose of an orchestral library.



Do you want to write a piece for 6 violins and 2 flutes or 6 marsheks and 2 windblums?

The marshek sounds strikingly like a violin in tone but it can only play unconnected notes at one dynamic level. You can either get a single lengthed stab/short out of it which always sounds the same or an infinite sustained note.

The windblum sounds remarkably like a flute in tone but it can only play unconnected notes at one dynamic level. You can either get a single lengthed stab/short out of it which always sounds the same or an infinite sustained note.


Are you writing for marsheks and windblums or violins and flutes?


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> Can you write an intricate, realistic sounding orchestral piece with anything. No.
> 
> We are talking about emulating an orchestra here (ie the whole purpose of an orchestral library).


I believe only YOU are talking about this. Again, I don't believe anyone on this forum has suggested that ANY sample library can emulate a real orchestra.


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> Do you want to write a piece for 6 violins and 2 flutes or 6 marsheks and 2 windblums?
> 
> The marshek sounds strikingly like a violin in tone but it can only play unconnected notes at one dynamic level. You can either get a single lengthed stab/short out of it which always sounds the same or an infinite sustained note.
> 
> The windblum sounds remarkably like a flute in tone but it can only play unconnected notes at one dynamic level. You can either get a single lengthed stab/short out of it which always sounds the same or an infinite sustained note.
> 
> 
> Are you writing for marsheks and windblums or violins and flutes?


Now you're WAY out there. Give it up, man.


----------



## easyrider

Eptesicus said:


> It has nothing to do with snobbery. Discover will be a great tool to sketch some ideas and no doubt you could write something very specific and simple with it and make it sound good, but to think you can emulate the entire pallete that an orchestra gives you with it is mistaken.



Its never claimed to do that....


----------



## Eptesicus

easyrider said:


> Its never claimed to do that....



I know.


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> Now you're WAY out there. Give it up, man.



So which are you writing for? Marsheks or violins?


----------



## easyrider

Eptesicus said:


> I know.




So your point was what exactly?


----------



## Eptesicus

easyrider said:


> So your point was what exactly?




Read the post you originally quoted/got involved in again.


----------



## Alex Fraser

This thread feels like the closing hours of a party, where the main event has already happened and most have gone home to feed the cat. Just a few hardcore left, arguing in the corner.


----------



## jononotbono

I haven't followed any of this. What's happening? Dare I ask.


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> I believe only YOU are talking about this. Again, I don't believe anyone on this forum has suggested that ANY sample library can emulate a real orchestra.



But the whole point of them is to try and get close. There is a reason we use the term "mock up".

If you treat every single orchestral virtual instrument as some separate, individual instrument then that is your prerogative.

But the reality is that sample developers are trying to make orchestral libraries that emulate what a real orchestra can do, and that is (mostly) what people want. Obviously the least costly ones generally do this poorly and the more expensive ones can give better results, in general terms (ie Discover - > Core -> Pro).


----------



## easyrider

jononotbono said:


> I haven't followed any of this. What's happening? Dare I ask.




Spitfire have released a free BBC orchestra...and people are miffed....


----------



## Alex Fraser

jononotbono said:


> I haven't followed any of this. What's happening? Dare I ask.


Spitfire did something. Some liked it, some did not. Same old.


----------



## FuzyDunlop

Eptesicus said:


> Actually i think you will find the goalposts were moved on me.
> 
> He said "someone could easily write a beautiful melody with... "
> 
> I never said you couldn't do this. But then you can write a beautiful melody, note wise with almost any tonal instrument. Or you can write it down on paper. Whether it sounds close to a real orchestra playing it is my argument.



Nah, you said you could never make anything "professional sounding," then you changed it to "you could never perfectly replicate every single texture an orchestra can achieve."


----------



## Eptesicus

FuzyDunlop said:


> Nah, you said you could never make anything "professional sounding," then you changed it to "you could never perfectly replicate every single texture an orchestra can achieve."



Well "professional sounding," was perhaps too broad a term. I guess if what you just need to write was a load of sustained chords it might sound passable.

What i mean is that you would be vastly limited in all sorts of things, orchestral writing wise, if you just used Core.


----------



## José Herring

Wolfie2112 said:


> I use HO Gold as well. Totally different sound from BBCSO, but each has its firm place in my templates.


How do they work together? I should think that since they are recorded in similar sized rooms that they should work well together.

I'm contemplating in the next few months of getting BBCSO and when released HOOE (HO opus edition) as the backbone of my samples.

Also, what kind of computer can BBCSO run successfully on?


----------



## J-M

Threads about Spitfire are always entertaining. Couldn't care less about the marketing, doesn't bother me that much. Don't own BBCSO, pretty happy with what I already have, so this doesn't concern me and that's fine. BUT I can now tell my friend that he can get started with his orchestral ideas by downloading a free sample library, which will stop his lame excuses for not writing. My little cousin is always begging to play with the samples when he visits so he'll be pretty darn happy with this. Hell, maybe I can even convince his big brother to try this out too...there's more to music than just thrash metal. Hell, even my aunt (who works as a music teacher) was interested in orchestral sample libraries so another one there...


----------



## Eptesicus

easyrider said:


> Spitfire have released a free BBC orchestra...and people are miffed....



No ones is miffed that they have released a free product. At all (or at least they shouldn't be).

If you actually cared to read the thread, you will see that the negative comments primarily focus on the disappointment caused by their marketing.


----------



## FuzyDunlop

Eptesicus said:


> Well "professional sounding," was perhaps too broad a term. I guess if what you just need to write was a load of sustained chords it might sound passable.
> 
> What i mean is that you would be vastly limited in all sorts of things, orchestral writing wise, if you just used Core.


I agree with that.


----------



## LamaRose

KallumS said:


> Wonder what Daniel James thinks about all this



He thinks the legatos suck.


----------



## easyrider

Eptesicus said:


> (Snip) the negative comments primarily focus on the disappointment caused by their marketing.



Then they need to get a grip on their lives... I mean you seem to be wasting alot of energy convincing people the limitations of discovery.....to what end?


----------



## purple

SupremeFist said:


> You are confusing quality of music with quality of audio deliverable.


No. If the samples cannot convey my musical ideas properly.... They are a limiting factor in the quality of music I can show to others. Maybe I can write better music in my head, but if the end product (like it is for many of us) is samples, and the samples limit me to a single dynamic layer and 3 articulations, the music itself will absolutely suffer.


----------



## ism

Eptesicus said:


> No ones is miffed that they have released a free product. At all (or at least they shouldn't be).
> 
> If you actually cared to read the thread, you will see that the negative comments primarily focus on the disappointment caused by their marketing.



The context is that there's a real history here of Spitfire being absolutely excoriated for releasing free libraries.


----------



## Nils Neumann

jononotbono said:


> I haven't followed any of this. What's happening? Dare I ask.


You missed nothing, nothing ground breaking got released.


----------



## Eptesicus

easyrider said:


> Then they need to get a grip on their lives... I mean you seem to be wasting alot of energy convincing people the limitations of discovery.....to what end?



Only because no one should need to be convinced of that...

My original point which has been blown out of all proportion was that education wise, a broader more detailed library will be needed pretty swiftly beyond the basics if you want to help students create convincing and expressive pieces of orchestral music. I guess that is where it plays into being a very shrewed business model as someone else pointed out.


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> So which are you writing for? Marsheks or violins?


Like I said, give it up. I wouldn't want you to embarrass yourself.


----------



## Eptesicus

robgb said:


> Like I said, give it up. I wouldn't want you to embarrass yourself.



I know the answer anyway. You want to write for marsheks.

We see orchestral virtual instruments as very different things I'm afraid.


----------



## jononotbono

Nils Neumann said:


> You missed nothing, nothing ground breaking got released.



Back to West World then.


----------



## robgb

Eptesicus said:


> I know the answer anyway. You want to write for marsheks.
> 
> We see orchestral virtual instruments as very different things I'm afraid.


I see virtual instruments as tools, nothing more. I'm not sure what you see them as and frankly, at this point, I don't really care.


----------



## Michael Antrum

The problem with Spitfire threads on this site is I’m never sure whether to call the police, the fire brigade or the coastguard....


----------



## ism

Eptesicus said:


> We see orchestral virtual instruments as very different things I'm afraid.


And I rather think that the real innovation here is precisely that the frictionless integration of the 3 tiers will open up space for different people to engage with vi’s from different spaces and with different goals at different moments in either their lives or even workflows.


----------



## El Buhdai

Eptesicus said:


> It isn't a straw man because that is the sole purpose of an orchestral library (see my previous post)!.



This is an incredibly simplistic and limited view of orchestral libraries. I'm sure you know there are people who use orchestral libraries for accompaniment in other genres. I met a composer who uses Hollywood Strings for backing chords without ever touching the modwheel. He could in theory do the same thing with BBCSO-D with much quicker loading times.


----------



## El Buhdai

MrLinssi said:


> Threads about Spitfire are always entertaining. Couldn't care less about the marketing, doesn't bother me that much. Don't own BBCSO, pretty happy with what I already have, so this doesn't concern me and that's fine. BUT I can now tell my friend that he can get started with his orchestral ideas by downloading a free sample library, which will stop his lame excuses for not writing. My little cousin is always begging to play with the samples when he visits so he'll be pretty darn happy with this. Hell, maybe I can even convince his big brother to try this out too...there's more to music than just thrash metal. Hell, even my aunt (who works as a music teacher) was interested in orchestral sample libraries so another one there...



Ding ding ding! And that is what it's for. A similar debate occurred when ComposerCloud was released about whether or not it was a good product. The thing that some VI-C composers can't seem to recognize is that a great product doesn't always mean "great for everyone". Not every product needs to be geared towards the highest echelon of users with years of experience and thousands of dollars to spend on libraries each year.


----------



## José Herring

Michael Antrum said:


> The problem with Spitfire threads on this site is I’m never sure whether to call the police, the fire brigade or the coastguard....


Call RAF on grounds of copyright infringement


----------



## Matt Damon

purple said:


> No. If the samples cannot convey my musical ideas properly.... They are a limiting factor in the quality of music I can show to others. Maybe I can write better music in my head, but if the end product (like it is for many of us) is samples, and the samples limit me to a single dynamic layer and 3 articulations, the music itself will absolutely suffer.



Here's what one can do and achieve a much better result and for not much more money.

Invest in a Sibelius subscription.

Invest in Noteperformer 3 which you can now get on a rent-to-own thing for 10 bucks a month, cancel anytime.

You can also apply your own reverbs to it if you want. It's affordable, and you will be able to write music that totally wrecks whatever you'll be able to do with this "discover" thing. Like, you'll be able to write music that's actually musical.






That's a Matt Damon promise!


----------



## ism

Are you comparing NP 3 to discovery or core?


----------



## KallumS

Nucleus Lite was $79 on intro - not sure if it's a competitor to Core or Discovery but it's $30 more than Discovery (if it gets discounted again) and is much higher quality.


----------



## Matt Damon

ism said:


> Are you comparing NP 3 to discovery or core?



Honestly, probably both.


----------



## José Herring

NoamL said:


> This is one of my favorite instruments but it is super rare. There is an ensemble of them in Albion III Iceni but it doesn't fully represent the lyrical capabilities.



Dude, the party starts slammin' when you break the heckelphones out!

Oh, man I've been sitting in front of the computer too long.


----------



## dzilizzi

NoamL said:


> This is one of my favorite instruments but it is super rare. There is an ensemble of them in Albion III Iceni but it doesn't fully represent the lyrical capabilities.



Well, shoot. I was hoping this was some kind of cool bass oboe, but it is technically a large wooden saxophone. Is that even a woodwind???? 

I'm kidding you. It is a very cool. Though maybe not as cool as a contra-bass flute.


----------



## robgb

KallumS said:


> Nucleus Lite was $79 on intro - not sure if it's a competitor to Core or Discovery but it's $30 more than Discovery (if it gets discounted again) and is much higher quality.


I don't think Nucleus Lite has sections. Only full ensembles. I could be very wrong.


----------



## KallumS

robgb said:


> I don't think Nucleus Lite has sections. Only full ensembles. I could be very wrong.



No I think you're right actually.

Edit: Full Ensembles for Strings, Woodwinds, Brass and Choir.


----------



## Nemoy

Michael Antrum said:


> The problem with Spitfire threads on this site is I’m never sure whether to call the police, the fire brigade or the coastguard....


But I'd prefer the beautiful people from Baywatch!


----------



## jcrosby

robgb said:


> I don't think Nucleus Lite has sections. Only full ensembles. I could be very wrong.


Correct. It's only Ensemble patches. And quite limited in that it's Spiccato and Sustain only. In total NL gives you strings, brass, winds, choir & percussion (barely, bass drum snare and crash only). It sounds great for what it is, but it is quite limited...

I love libraries like this for sketching out ideas quickly then moving to the full template so finding this thread amusing to say the least...


----------



## MarcHedenberg

So are we just not gonna talk about the fact that they gave current BBCSO owners the bass flute?


----------



## ism

MarcHedenberg said:


> So are we just not gonna talk about the fact that they gave current BBCSO owners the bass flute?



How about a 7 hour youtube review of every single possible detail of the bass flute - any volunteers?


----------



## Nemoy

ism said:


> How about a 7 hour youtube review of every single possible detail of the bass flute - any volunteers?


Agreed! And the brass section too, to see and hear if they made any improvements to that from all the feedback provided by the community. We need coverage on the brass too!


----------



## Fleer

MarcHedenberg said:


> So are we just not gonna talk about the fact that they gave current BBCSO owners the bass flute?


Well, as a classically trained traverso player, I’m more than happy to welcome this bass flute. Even though I would be able to play one myself, it’s a much more expensive instrument and less easy to master.


----------



## Ashermusic

ism said:


> How about a 7 hour youtube review of every single possible detail of the bass flute - any volunteers?



Sorry, I couldn’t possibly do more than six hours.


----------



## yiph2

Petition to make Daniel James review the Discover/Core!


----------



## yiph2

Also seems like they updated the page, they have core and discoverr templates








Core Templates — THE PAGE


Christian Henson & Jake Jackson have put together orchestral templates for Logic, Protools, and GarageBand for use with BBC Symphony Orchestra Core. You can download those templates below.




www.spitfireaudiothepage.com




For logic, pro tools and garageband, interesting!


----------



## purple

Matt Damon said:


> Here's what one can do and achieve a much better result and for not much more money.
> 
> Invest in a Sibelius subscription.
> 
> Invest in Noteperformer 3 which you can now get on a rent-to-own thing for 10 bucks a month, cancel anytime.
> 
> You can also apply your own reverbs to it if you want. It's affordable, and you will be able to write music that totally wrecks whatever you'll be able to do with this "discover" thing. Like, you'll be able to write music that's actually musical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a Matt Damon promise!



I prefer the level of control and the workflow of a DAW for what I do. If the goal is a good MIDI mockup, notation software is much clunkier for that purpose. If somehow I'm going straight from sheet music to musician's stands (which doesn't happen in the industry at all AFAIK), then I might as well just use notation software, but in that case I don't see the point of note performer because I don't need to make a mockup...


----------



## Matt Damon

purple said:


> I prefer the level of control and the workflow of a DAW for what I do. If the goal is a good MIDI mockup, notation software is much clunkier for that purpose. If somehow I'm going straight from sheet music to musician's stands (which doesn't happen in the industry at all AFAIK), then I might as well just use notation software, but in that case I don't see the point of note performer because I don't need to make a mockup...



Yeah, but those NotePerformer mockups sound a lot better and go a lot quicker than 90% of most DAW mockups that try to play that kind of music.

And for a lot less money.


----------



## Ashermusic

Matt Damon said:


> Yeah, but those NotePerformer mockups sound a lot better and go a lot quicker than 90% of most DAW mockups that try to play that kind of music.
> 
> And for a lot less money.



Please point me to one that you think illustrates that. Not challenging you, honestly curious.


----------



## Michel Simons

I woke up to only 8 more pages in this thread. I am a little bit disappointed in our American cousins. I expect more of an effort from you guys in the future.

Anyway, what about Symphonic Motions...?


----------



## tonaliszt

Ashermusic said:


> Please point me to one that you think illustrates that. Not challenging you, honestly curious.


BBCSO PRO vs Noteperformer on the star wars opening. 

Regardless, the discovery version is a terrific idea - but I don't see the main audience as music students! 
A kid playing the violin and wanting to write orchestra music already thinks of music as notes on a page and is going to start there, not messing around with Garageband. That kid is gonna want to write for his friends, his school band, etc...

The main audience, I think, is musicians and producers in other genres (including kids/students). These people see music as being in a DAW and are going to see the possibilities of utilizing orchestra sounds in their productions. They are gonna be primarily concerned with ease of use, transferability between systems, and sonic fidelity - which discovery nails. These people are also likely to be used to spending money on gear and might be tempted to buy a larger package if they get hooked. 

My guess is that spitfire is realizing there is a cap on the film scoring/realistic orchestra samples market, and need to pivot more of their demographics to producers of other types of music if they want to continue the massive and unprecedented growth they have had.


----------



## MaxOctane

All kidding aside, I'm pretty disappointed that this was the big announcement. I already have BBCSO and a beefy laptop, and the low-resource Discovery (which I downloaded) doesn't add anything.

So today, I have just the same tools/toys as yesterday. I had wallet in hand for some amazing new SA library :-(


----------



## dzilizzi

Michel Simons said:


> I woke up to only 8 more pages in this thread. I am a little bit disappointed in our American cousins. I expect more of an effort from you guys in the future.
> 
> Anyway, what about Symphonic Motions...?


It kind of petered out after the YouTube videos.


----------



## Matt Damon

tonaliszt said:


> BBCSO PRO vs Noteperformer on the star wars opening.



Yeah, I was unaware of this mockup from Spitfire and I have to say the Noteperformer one is absolutely better.

and this is 150 dollar software (excluding Sibelius) vs roughly 1000?

_OOF_

Not to mention that that's just from loading in a music XML file and slightly tweaking it in Noteperformer. Even if one could, with putting in the time, make it better with Kontakt samples — I seriously doubt I'm gonna hear an example that justifies the time input and cost.


----------



## FinGael

I was relieved; Paul was very excited. 

Thinking of getting the Core version - if I manage to dig the pennies from somewhere before the introductory price ends (being unemployed at the moment).


----------



## barteredbride

For me, there is a different angle to the BBCSO Discover.

I always wished there was a 'try before you buy' with Spitfire Audio products.

There was always so many mixed views on the BBC stuff, even after viewing all the reviews and hearing the demos and walkthroughs, I was not sure if it was for me. 

Now I can play around and see for myself before committing to a €1k library with no resell option.

I know this wasn't the point of Discover, but maybe in the future Spitfire could offer a free 'longs and stacc' lite version with perhaps 2 or 3 instruments of any new libraries costing over 500€.


----------



## pfylim

This is exactly why I have given up on them long ago. I can't stand the way they perpetually promote rubbish. I have deleted all of their piano libraries as they had too many faults. Overpriced eye candy.


----------



## pfylim

Zedcars said:


> I think they mean it's all about _*the*_ change?


spot on!


----------



## Adam Takacs

For me it's a change indeed.
I have BBC SO Professional (pre-ordered), but the BBC SO project I started writing on my Windows 7 machine was not playable properly on my new Windows 10 PC. Clicks and pops, CPU overloads all the time.

Yesterday I updated to the new version of the plugin, project playback was smooth, CPU load was around 35-40%. Still to be tested, but very promising for now.

Can anyone else confirm the improvement on performance?


----------



## korgscrew2000

tadam said:


> For me it's a change indeed.
> I have BBC SO Professional (pre-ordered), but the BBC SO project I started writing on my Windows 7 machine was not playable properly on my new Windows 10 PC. Clicks and pops, CPU overloads all the time.
> 
> Yesterday I updated to the new version of the plugin, project playback was smooth, CPU load was around 35-40%. Still to be tested, but very promising for now.
> 
> Can anyone else confirm the improvement on performance?



So software you bought last year didn't work, they do hype marketing that turns out to be an update only for your software to work.

Fab.


----------



## Patryk Scelina

porrasm said:


> It better be SSO or BBC update. I don't need a new game changer before they've improved the previous game changers.


Well they stepped into different bussiness model it seems. Like Steinberg which has to release new Cubase version every year, even if they didn't fix all the bugs from previous one yet.


----------



## peladio

x-dfo said:


> if it's more usable than EWHO Gold.



It isn't..



Nils Neumann said:


> You missed nothing, nothing ground breaking got released.



I don't know how is London still standing since they broke ground so many times..



Patryk Scelina said:


> Well they stepped into different bussiness model it seems. Like Steinberg which has to release new Cubase version every year, even if they didn't fix all the bugs from previous one yet.



8dio as well..


----------



## Adam Takacs

korgscrew2000 said:


> So software you bought last year didn't work, they do hype marketing that turns out to be an update only for your software to work.
> 
> Fab.


It worked perfectly on my Windows 7 machine, but since I needed more power, I had to build a new PC.
The problems started when I used the plugin on Windows 10, maybe this has now been fixed.
If so, I'll be glad because the BBC SO is very-very good library along with its limitations.

I try to ignore that aggressive marketing, damn annoying, but it seems to work, so they will do that in the future, whether I like it or not...

I’m focusing on the library, which is really a great product, improvement takes time...
I wrote a bunch of sketches with previous versions so in the end I didn’t regret the pre-order at all.


----------



## purple

Matt Damon said:


> Here's what one can do and achieve a much better result and for not much more money.
> 
> Invest in a Sibelius subscription.
> 
> Invest in Noteperformer 3 which you can now get on a rent-to-own thing for 10 bucks a month, cancel anytime.
> 
> You can also apply your own reverbs to it if you want. It's affordable, and you will be able to write music that totally wrecks whatever you'll be able to do with this "discover" thing. Like, you'll be able to write music that's actually musical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a Matt Damon promise!



It just sounds like any notation software playback but with a better microphone. Sorry, it might be faster for you, but it's not up to my personal standards when it comes to expression and realism. It's completely on rails, and you can add all the swells and rubato you want to the score but it doesn't work for me as well as actual performed lines do. The second example there quite honestly sounds about as realistic as musescore default playback to me.


----------



## Piotrek K.

> It just sounds like any notation software playback but with a better microphone.



Heh, hard to argue with someone else's ears, but mine hear really solid mockups there. I use Noteperformer whenever I'm in "notation mood". And I really like how it sounds. It lacks certain bite (I really miss that hard bowing "grrrr" quality ), but in terms of dynamics, expressiveness, ease of use there is nothing like that imo. This is the only piece of software I'd call almost perfect. Almost because I believe Wallander can go even further


----------



## Zero&One

I still can't believe I'm a Pro user. My parents wanted to come and hug me, but due to social distance restrictions that'll have to wait.
Been a bumpy 6 months, but it shows anyone can do it. Believe in yourself!


----------



## Matt Damon

purple said:


> It just sounds like any notation software playback but with a better microphone. Sorry, it might be faster for you, but it's not up to my personal standards when it comes to expression and realism. It's completely on rails, and you can add all the swells and rubato you want to the score but it doesn't work for me as well as actual performed lines do. The second example there quite honestly sounds about as realistic as musescore default playback to me.



Can you give us an example of a mockup that is up to your personal standards?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Matt Damon said:


> Can you give us an example of a mockup that is up to your personal standards?


Noteperformer is a great product and very good value for money. But for a notation package for composition - Staffpad takes the crown I Think....


----------



## Matt Damon

Michael Antrum said:


> Noteperformer is a great product and very good value for money. But for a notation package for composition - Staffpad takes the crown I Think....




I'd never heard of this before. 

Personally, I like this demo much better

 

Thanks for sharing though, this is great stuff.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I just invested in a 12.9 iPad Pro for this software. I’ve put on a Matt screen protector so it feels like writing on paper, and knocks the screen glare down when I’m outside.

I can easily cart it anywhere, and in normal times I travel a great deal, but I can sit in the garden with a beer and scribble away....


----------



## GCT

BBCSO Core

No Cor Anglais!

That is a major omission.


----------



## Matt Damon

Michael Antrum said:


> I just invested in a 12.9 iPad Pro for this software. I’ve put on a Matt screen protector so it feels like writing on paper, and knocks the screen glare down when I’m outside.
> 
> I can easily cart it anywhere, and in normal times I travel a great deal, but I can sit in the garden with a beer and scribble away....



Yeah, I'm going over the YouTube videos and stuff and this is seriously good shit. I always dreamed of something like this existing.

Tempted to invest in even an older MS Surface (since apparently it runs on all models) to use this.


----------



## cqd

Matt Damon..


----------



## Zedcars

GCT said:


> BBCSO Core
> 
> No Cor Anglais!
> 
> That is a major omission.


There has to be some omissions to differentiate between Core the Pro right. Whatever they leave out it’s going to disadvantage someone I guess. But perhaps they could have chosen something less commonly used.


----------



## Matt Damon

cqd said:


> Matt Damon..



Yes?


----------



## Michael Antrum

Just be aware that whilst it comes with a full set of stock sounds, most of the demos are using third party libraries. Most of the full sections are £99 each - for say Berlin or Spitfire Strings/Brass/Woods but the smaller libraries, like Berlin Harps are less expensive. The stock sounds aren't bad, but Berlin Strings is a big upgrade (It's the only one I bought so far...)

At £85, Staffpad is the most expensive app I have ever bought, it's also the best thing I have bought in ages.

It's transformed the way I work...and is excellent for score study too...


----------



## cqd

Matt Damon said:


> Yes?



It was a somewhat antiquated south park reference..

Are you still stuck in Dublin?..


----------



## Matt Damon

Michael Antrum said:


> Just be aware that whilst it comes with a full set of stock sounds, most of the demos are using third party libraries. Most of the full sections are £99 each - for say Berlin or Spitfire Strings/Brass/Woods but the smaller libraries, like Berlin Harps are less expensive. The stock sounds aren't bad, but Berlin Strings is a big upgrade (It's the only one I bought so far...)
> 
> At £85, Staffpad is the most expensive app I have ever bought, it's also the best thing I have bought in ages.
> 
> It's transformed the way I work...and is excellent for score study too...



That's still very reasonably priced tbh


----------



## muk

Michael Antrum said:


> Noteperformer is a great product and very good value for money. But for a notation package for composition - Staffpad takes the crown I Think....




The problem with Staffpad, for me, is the handwriting recognition. It was too tedious when I tried it and it didn't recognize enough to be useable for me. The proposed solution is to change your handwriting. Well duh. Nice concept, but I am actually way faster writing on real paper, and then inputting it into Sibelius.


----------



## MOMA

christianhenson said:


> Yes... that anyone can collaborate anywhere in the world on a fully professional score, project and have zero blockers, its free for those who need it to be, it can be downloaded anywhere and that it is completely cross compatible in all directions to the PRO library IS game changing.
> 
> It may not change YOUR game (he says in the general direction of naysayers... not to you Will)... but it does change the way we all can now approach and teach electronic orchestration.\
> 
> There is a solution where there wasn't one previously.




So true. The market is drowning in many really good sample libraries, but at the same time creating a virtual chaos when it comes to connecting and colabs. This is evident for me, trying to get help on a tight schedule – and ending up in a swamp of different solutions and templates. I do think you´re on to something. Thought there always will be someone with a different idea, some will go to extremes in there ambition to be "right", while the people in the middle trying to connect is regarded as wimps. Middle way may in the end get us where we want to be. Take a look at our hero John: . 
Still one of the best monologues ever written. Best to you all from Sweden!


----------



## Zedcars

cqd said:


> Matt Damon..


----------



## Michael Antrum

muk said:


> The problem with Staffpad, for me, is the handwriting recognition. It was too tedious when I tried it and it didn't recognize enough to be useable for me. The proposed solution is to change your handwriting. Well duh. Nice concept, but I am actually way faster writing on real paper, and then inputting it into Sibelius.



The handwriting recognition, for me at least, has come on leaps and bounds, and since the last update a week or so ago, the only thing I have a bit of occasional trouble with is hairpins and some dynamics.

Yes, I did change the way I wrote a little bit - but the net result is that when I do use paper my notation is far clearer (bonus), and it's no way near as complex as learning Sibelius - which has the most convoluted interface - (I moved to Dorico and am much happier with that).

But we all like what we like, which is fine, but you might care to try it again if your experience with it was a while ago.

edit: And somewhat weirdly, I have one of those matt screen protectors on my iPad and it makes writing on it feel like paper - it's made a big difference too as the pencil doesn't skate on the surface of the glass as much.


----------



## Redsa

!!!


----------



## ridgero

How much RAM does a fully loaded „Core“ template take in Logic?

I really like the idea to use a Core version on my MBP and a Pro version on my iMac. I use the same iCloud folder on my desktop for Logic.


----------



## RogiervG

Redsa said:


> Why are Microsoft advertising Windows on here now?



Windows 7 wants it's logo back....


----------



## cqd

Is anyone on windows able to use the "pro" version these days?..

Are people actually using multiple mics etc?..


----------



## Karma

cqd said:


> Is anyone on windows able to use the "pro" version these days?..
> 
> Are people actually using multiple mics etc?..


Of course!


----------



## cqd

Karma said:


> Of course!



Really?..Is it actually working?.. can you load a template and mess around with mics and stuff?.. when I had access to it it was pretty much unusable..(although I saw earlier it might be an issue with win10 and it's ok on win7..)


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

Anyone else with Core having issues with the marimba at low velocities? It sounds fine in Discover mode, but when I try soft beats in Core it sounds a overly-muffled.


----------



## Karma

cqd said:


> Really?..Is it actually working?.. can you load a template and mess around with mics and stuff?.. when I had access to it it was pretty much unusable..(although I saw earlier it might be an issue with win10 and it's ok on win7..)


I'm on Windows 10 and have been using it for about half a year now in my template, all with about 4-5 mics on each instrument. Granted there's some other stuff in there as well, but certainly not having any issues! There were a couple of Windows related things at launch on a small number of systems, but they were quickly addressed.


----------



## gtrwll

cqd said:


> Really?..Is it actually working?.. can you load a template and mess around with mics and stuff?.. when I had access to it it was pretty much unusable..(although I saw earlier it might be an issue with win10 and it's ok on win7..)



Yes. Just finished this theme:



I was trying out the new bass flute, which is nice. And it kinda accidentally grew to that theme.


----------



## easyrider

When BBCSO first arrived what did you all pay for it?


----------



## Zero&One

easyrider said:


> When BBCSO first arrived what did you all pay for it?



£878. That was with the SSD (for instant play)


----------



## Bluemount Score

easyrider said:


> When BBCSO first arrived what did you all pay for it?


$595 intro offer + edu discount


----------



## ridgero

easyrider said:


> When BBCSO first arrived what did you all pay for it?



Same price as now

1000 Euro incl. SSD


----------



## yiph2

Bluemount Score said:


> $595 intro offer + edu discount


I thought the edu discount only tops off the normal price...


----------



## Bluemount Score

yiph2 said:


> I thought the edu discount only tops off the normal price...


Usually yes, back when BBCSO was released for pre-order no, luckily


----------



## dzilizzi

yiph2 said:


> I thought the edu discount only tops off the normal price...


During October, Spitfire usually offers a 40% Edu discount. The $595 was 40% off the full price, not 30% off the sale price. (Preorder was in October)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

josejherring said:


> How do they work together? I should think that since they are recorded in similar sized rooms that they should work well together.
> 
> I'm contemplating in the next few months of getting BBCSO and when released HOOE (HO opus edition) as the backbone of my samples.
> 
> Also, what kind of computer can BBCSO run successfully on?



They blend nicely.

I’m on a 2013 MB Pro. I’m not one of those guys that loads up every single articulation for a template, but I have done a test. I can load the entire BBCSO orchestra, with the default mic position, and it’s about 11GB. This is with a single articulation per instance. When you load an instrument, it loads every articulation for that instrument, which is a huge resource hog. What I do is trash everything except for the single patch I need.


----------



## FinGael

Hey folks @ Spitfire. Could you please change the walkthrough video fo Core version to an ordinary video (it is unlisted now)? .. so I could watch it with my telly and listen with the sound system connected to it.


----------



## Brasart

easyrider said:


> When BBCSO first arrived what did you all pay for it?



Intro price, so the same it is now I think (750€?)


----------



## Ric4001

Wolfie2112 said:


> They blend nicely.
> 
> I’m on a 2013 MB Pro. I’m not one of those guys that loads up every single articulation for a template, but I have done a test. I can load the entire BBCSO orchestra, with the default mic position, and it’s about 11GB. This is with a single articulation per instance. When you load an instrument, it loads every articulation for that instrument, which is a huge resource hog. What I do is trash everything except for the single patch I need.


That's helpful information. Does your 2013 MP Pro have 16GB of RAM?


----------



## robgb

Matt Damon said:


> Yeah, but those NotePerformer mockups sound a lot better and go a lot quicker than 90% of most DAW mockups that try to play that kind of music.
> 
> And for a lot less money.


I don't know, the NotePerformer mockups sounded pretty mechanical to me, but to each his own.


----------



## ism

robgb said:


> I don't know, the NotePerformer mockups sounded pretty mechanical to me, but to each his own.


I'm with you on that. BBCSO is a whole other universe of musical realization.

Lots of respect for the excellent mock ups NP can do. But BBCSO is capable of making music that I'd actually want to listen for.

Also, the Star Wars march is a poor choice for comparison I feel. The GPO has a remarkable passable mock up of that one. I think it's partly that a) there just so much staccato, which isn't the hardest thing to sample, and b) it's just so loud and busy in general that the sheer quantity of instruments playing works to cover up expressive deficiencies in the mix. Just a theory.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> I'm with you on that. BBCSO is a whole other universe of musical realization.
> 
> Lots of respect for the excellent mock ups NP can do. But BBCSO is capable of making music that I'd actually want to listen for.
> 
> Also, the Star Wars march is a poor choice for comparison I feel. The GPO has a remarkable passable mock up of that one. I think it's partly that a) there just so much staccato, which isn't the hardest thing to sample, and b) it's just so loud and busy in general that the sheer quantity of instruments playing works to cover up expressive deficiencies in the mix. Just a theory.


I've heard a lot of decent mock-ups from Note Performer, and I find it remarkable what it can do and how much it has improved ofter the years. It's a very nifty piece of software that I have no trouble recommending to folks who like to work in notation programs. And the same seems to be true of Staff Pad. But I find they produce quite different results from what you can get in a DAW, and I find the latter gives far greater control. I also get far more pleasure crafting the performance in a DAW than working in a notation program and then outputting. And I trained back in the paper and pencil age, so it's not like I learned composition through a DAW or anything. I just thoroughly enjoy the composing process in a DAW.


----------



## Ashermusic

tonaliszt said:


> BBCSO PRO vs Noteperformer on the star wars opening.
> 
> Regardless, the discovery version is a terrific idea - but I don't see the main audience as music students!
> A kid playing the violin and wanting to write orchestra music already thinks of music as notes on a page and is going to start there, not messing around with Garageband. That kid is gonna want to write for his friends, his school band, etc...
> 
> The main audience, I think, is musicians and producers in other genres (including kids/students). These people see music as being in a DAW and are going to see the possibilities of utilizing orchestra sounds in their productions. They are gonna be primarily concerned with ease of use, transferability between systems, and sonic fidelity - which discovery nails. These people are also likely to be used to spending money on gear and might be tempted to buy a larger package if they get hooked.
> 
> My guess is that spitfire is realizing there is a cap on the film scoring/realistic orchestra samples market, and need to pivot more of their demographics to producers of other types of music if they want to continue the massive and unprecedented growth they have had.




Sorry but the Noteperformer version sounds very unmusical to me, like everything is hard quantized.


----------



## ism

jbuhler said:


> I've heard a lot of decent mock-ups from Note Performer, and I find it remarkable what it can do and how much it has improved ofter the years. It's a very nifty piece of software that I have no trouble recommending to folks who like to work in notation programs. And the same seems to be true of Staff Pad. But I find they produce quite different results from what you can get in a DAW, and I find the latter gives far greater control. I also get far more pleasure crafting the performance in a DAW than working in a notation program and then outputting. And I trained back in the paper and pencil age, so it's not like I learned composition through a DAW or anything. I just thoroughly enjoy the composing process in a DAW.


I really thought I would prefer to compose in notation. But very quickly discovered that the expressiveness that comes with working in the DAW really drives how I like to write music (or perhaps: really drives the need to figure out the kind of expressiveness that a given vi is are capable of in the first place).

Which speaks to the question of what precisely are the expressive dimension of the BBCSO that are so exciting to me?

Well it's not the technical advanced in dept of sampling. SSO frequently has better legato and more dynamic layers.

And it's partly the sound. This "clarity and cohesiveness" that everyone agrees is one of the great things about BBCSO without quite being able to define what that means.

But I conjecture that it's also the way a certain type of expressiveness works in some way that is very closely entangled with this sonic quality.

I really have head music with the BBCSO that I would want to listen to - ie as music, not merely a technical demonstration to give a skeletal ideal of what music might sound like.

What I don't like is trying to figure out counterpoint and the more technical aspects of composition in a DAW.

Which is why a round-trip workflow between staff pad and logic could be - conjecturally - mahoosive.


----------



## Ashermusic

ism said:


> What I don't like is trying to figure out counterpoint and the more technical aspects of composition in a DAW.
> 
> Which is why a round-trip workflow between staff pad and logic could be - conjecturally - mahoosive.



I totally agree.


----------



## Bluemount Score

dzilizzi said:


> During October, Spitfire usually offers a 40% Edu discount. The $595 was 40% off the full price, not 30% off the sale price. (Preorder was in October)


Really? This could also be. Whatever, $595 is what I paid


----------



## dzilizzi

Bluemount Score said:


> Really? This could also be. Whatever, $595 is what I paid


That was one of the things I remembered. Only because I didn't qualify for a student discount that year, since I was only taking one class.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> I really thought I would prefer to compose in notation. But very quickly discovered that the expressiveness that comes with working in the DAW really drives how I like to write music (or perhaps: really drives the need to figure out the kind of expressiveness that a given vi is are capable of in the first place).
> 
> Which speaks to the question of what precisely are the expressive dimension of the BBCSO that are so exciting to me?
> 
> Well it's not the technical advanced in dept of sampling. SSO frequently has better legato and more dynamic layers.
> 
> And it's partly the sound. This "clarity and cohesiveness" that everyone agrees is one of the great things about BBCSO without quite being able to define what that means.
> 
> But I conjecture that it's also the way a certain type of expressiveness works in some way that is very closely entangled with this sonic quality.
> 
> I really have head music with the BBCSO that I would want to listen to - ie as music, not merely a technical demonstration to give a skeletal ideal of what music might sound like.
> 
> What I don't like is trying to figure out counterpoint and the more technical aspects of composition in a DAW.
> 
> Which is why a round-trip workflow between staff pad and logic could be - conjecturally - mahoosive.


I've found it interesting how far I can get along working out counterpoint in the DAW. Much further than I would have thought, and often I come up with better solutions in the DAW than I do on paper. And I find formal organization easier to manage in a DAW than in a notation program. I do however keep a musical notepad on the desk for working things out. I've been using notation programs on and off really since they started appearing, and I've never warmed to them and I basically only use them for engraving examples for publications and for the classroom, never to compose... For me, composition is either paper and pencil or in the DAW. Well, there is a third way, which is noodling about on some instrument real or virtual outside DAW or notation, working out a piece that way and then playing it into the DAW or transcribing it. 

I'm basically happy with SSO, SCS, and HZS along with a few supplements, but I find BBCSO alluring for the cohesiveness of the sound. I know that "cohesiveness" is in SF's marketing, but it's also something I hear in pretty much every example of the library I've encountered, good, bad, and indifferent. And it's something that SSO doesn't really have out of the box. So I remain tempted and wonder if BBCSO could serve as a glue to bring better coherence to all the other libraries I have.


----------



## jbuhler

dzilizzi said:


> That was one of the things I remembered. Only because I didn't qualify for a student discount that year, since I was only taking one class.


This is what I remember too. Presumably it will be at that price again this September if they run the EDU sale again.


----------



## ism

jbuhler said:


> I've found it interesting how far I can get along working out counterpoint in the DAW. Much further than I would have thought, and often I come up with better solutions in the DAW than I do on paper. And I find formal organization easier to manage in a DAW than in a notation program. I do however keep a musical notepad on the desk for working things out. I've been using notation programs on and off really since they started appearing, and I've never warmed to them and I basically only use them for engraving examples for publications and for the classroom, never to compose... For me, composition is either paper and pencil or in the DAW. Well, there is a third way, which is noodling about on some instrument real or virtual outside DAW or notation, working out a piece that way and then playing it into the DAW or transcribing it.
> 
> I'm basically happy with SSO, SCS, and HZS along with a few supplements, but I find BBCSO alluring for the cohesiveness of the sound. I know that "cohesiveness" is in SF's marketing, but it's also something I hear in pretty much every example of the library I've encountered, good, bad, and indifferent. And it's something that SSO doesn't really have out of the box. So I remain tempted and wonder if BBCSO could serve as a glue to bring better coherence to all the other libraries I have.



Interesting. Well, inside or outside of a DAW, I clearly need to do something about my counterpoint. 

And investing theory about BBC bringing cohesion to other libraries. Sometime the way I attempt have SSO (+ Albion etc) to blend more cohesively with other libs is to add a touch early reflections. I'll add more of the same early reflections to dryer (non AIR Lyndhurst) libraries. But the thickening that comes with the early reflections gives them a certain cohesion. This comes at the cost of a clarity of course. But sometimes I can find a compromise that I like (and sometimes I just have to throw away the non AIR library as getting it to blend just comes at too high a cost). 

So BBCSO as providing cohesion is an interesting idea.


----------



## ism

Glagoliath said:


> Good job at missing the entire point.
> 
> Musicians are creating humanization by their playing of instruments.
> If all musicians were robots, reading notes and playing notes right on time then all orchestral music would sound quantized.
> Of course that note sheets played by a software would sound quantized because it's the same thing as quantized notes in piano roll and in order to have humanized sound, you would need to nudge notes in note sheets, which would be a nonsense.
> 
> "Sorry, it sounds quantized".
> 
> What do you want, humanized, not quantized notes in note sheets?
> Since when note sheets were not quantized? They are quantized by default, they are quantized since they were invented, they are quantized for centuries.
> Human element comes from a musician's playing.
> 
> That thing must sound quantized by default, when software reads note sheets and plays written notes in note sheets.
> 
> 
> Second thing, it's just *MIND BOGGLING* to me that you completely dismissed what that other person said and where he pointed out that things like Discover are fucking useless to actual students who actually STUDY music because they are not studying music by dicking around in piano roll, but reading and writing actual notes.
> Note sheets is their working environment, not piano roll.
> 
> 
> After @tonaliszt explained thoroughly things, you just replied with:
> 
> _"Sorry but the Noteperformer version sounds very unmusical to me, like everything is hard quantized."_
> 
> like that thing even fucking matters AT ALL.
> *It's COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT *to what he said.
> 
> 
> A friend of mine, she was studying ethnomusicology and she also studied counterpoint and she needed to compose fugue as an exam. She wasn't studying composition, but ethnomusicology.
> 
> Please, I BEG YOU, explain to us as a so-called composer how exactly she could have benefit from Discover?
> What, you place notes in piano roll, export .wav file and give to professor?
> No, he wants note sheets.
> 
> Do you understand?
> Students can benefit from Notepeformer, not from things like Discover.
> That's what @tonaliszt was pointing out and you replied with:
> 
> _"Sorry but the Noteperformer version sounds very unmusical to me, like everything is hard quantized."_


Dude, chill. You're veering into personal invective.


----------



## dzilizzi

Glagoliath said:


> Good job at missing the entire point.
> 
> Musicians are creating humanization by their playing of instruments.
> If all musicians were robots, reading notes and playing notes right on time then all orchestral music would sound quantized.
> Of course that note sheets played by a software would sound quantized because it's the same thing as quantized notes in piano roll and in order to have humanized sound, you would need to nudge notes in note sheets, which would be a nonsense.
> 
> "Sorry, it sounds quantized".
> 
> What do you want, humanized, not quantized notes in note sheets?
> Since when note sheets were not quantized? They are quantized by default, they are quantized since they were invented, they are quantized for centuries.
> Human element comes from a musician's playing.
> 
> That thing must sound quantized by default, when software reads note sheets and plays written notes in note sheets.
> 
> 
> Second thing, it's just *MIND BOGGLING* to me that you completely dismissed what that other person said and where he pointed out that things like Discover are fucking useless to actual students who actually STUDY music because they are not studying music by dicking around in piano roll, but reading and writing actual notes.
> Note sheets is their working environment, not piano roll.
> 
> 
> After @tonaliszt explained thoroughly things, you just replied with:
> 
> _"Sorry but the Noteperformer version sounds very unmusical to me, like everything is hard quantized."_
> 
> like that thing even fucking matters AT ALL.
> *It's COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT *to what he said.
> 
> 
> A friend of mine, she was studying ethnomusicology and she also studied counterpoint and she needed to compose fugue as an exam. She wasn't studying composition, but ethnomusicology.
> 
> Please, I BEG YOU, explain to us as a so-called composer how exactly she could have benefit from Discover?
> What, you place notes in piano roll, export .wav file and give to professor?
> No, he wants note sheets.
> 
> Do you understand?
> Students can benefit from Notepeformer, not from things like Discover.
> That's what @tonaliszt was pointing out and you replied with:
> 
> _"Sorry but the Noteperformer version sounds very unmusical to me, like everything is hard quantized."_


This depends on the class you are taking. You are talking classical music theory. But what about Studio Production or Film production classes. There are classes out there for making game music. Any class that requires a DAW, this is perfect for. The teacher can have the full version to show what it possible and provide the midi. The students can get a free version of Discover and work with the midi provided. They learn how to use midi to make music. I think it is great.


----------



## Mike Greene

Aaaand we'll be saying good bye to Glagoliath again.


----------



## SupremeFist

jbuhler said:


> I've found it interesting how far I can get along working out counterpoint in the DAW. Much further than I would have thought, and often I come up with better solutions in the DAW than I do on paper. And I find formal organization easier to manage in a DAW than in a notation program. I do however keep a musical notepad on the desk for working things out. I've been using notation programs on and off really since they started appearing, and I've never warmed to them and I basically only use them for engraving examples for publications and for the classroom, never to compose... For me, composition is either paper and pencil or in the DAW. Well, there is a third way, which is noodling about on some instrument real or virtual outside DAW or notation, working out a piece that way and then playing it into the DAW or transcribing it.
> 
> I'm basically happy with SSO, SCS, and HZS along with a few supplements, but I find BBCSO alluring for the cohesiveness of the sound. I know that "cohesiveness" is in SF's marketing, but it's also something I hear in pretty much every example of the library I've encountered, good, bad, and indifferent. And it's something that SSO doesn't really have out of the box. So I remain tempted and wonder if BBCSO could serve as a glue to bring better coherence to all the other libraries I have.


I think I have a similar experience, in that a DAW encourages me to try playing in things by ear that I might not have thought of when working on the staves. But for the nitty-gritty I still need to see it in notation. So for me it's DAW and manuscript paper.


----------



## purple

Ashermusic said:


> Sorry but the Noteperformer version sounds very unmusical to me, like everything is hard quantized.


Makes sense, given that under the hood any notation software is just a hard-quantized DAW when you're doing playback.


----------



## synkrotron

What a strange afternoon.

Me and the missus sat outside chatting to our immediate next door neighbour and his wife. The whole close was out as part of the VE day celebrations. We let them get on with that while we had a more personal chat with the other Mr and Mrs.

It felt strange in that apart from the odd skype between immediate family we have only had ourselves for "company." And at times that has come under extreme pressure, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, got back in and powered up YouTube for some quick entertainment while I was having a late tea. I noticed that Spitfire Audio had posted a short walkthrough of BBCSO Discovery.

I thought it was pretty good. But, then again, I don't know much and am easily pleased.


----------



## purple

Matt Damon said:


> Can you give us an example of a mockup that is up to your personal standards?


My favorite star wars theme mockup is the sample modeling one. I don't have sample modeling myself but I plan to get it soon . I don't think NotePerformer can support such a performance-based library, though.



There's a long thread that was bumped not too long ago here full of all the best mockups the users here have ever heard. I encourage you to browse it. I don't remember there being many if any NotePerformer mockups in that thread. I could be wrong, though.


----------



## Matt Damon

purple said:


> My favorite star wars theme mockup is the sample modeling one. I don't have sample modeling myself but I plan to get it soon . I don't think NotePerformer can support such a performance-based library, though.
> 
> 
> 
> There's a long thread that was bumped not too long ago here full of all the best mockups the users here have ever heard. I encourage you to browse it. I don't remember there being many if any NotePerformer mockups in that thread. I could be wrong, though.




The sample-modeling one sounds good, I'd prefer its timbre, but the difference in a side-by-side comparison, especially regarding performance, is absolutely negligible. The intro on that mockup is also nowhere near as powerful sounding. Certainly not enough to justify the more than a thousand dollars price difference and that's not counting hardware, DAW, etc. 

Actually, it's very difficult to even call this a comparison. Since the Sample Modeling one only samples the first little bit, and only deals with brass, where as the Noteperformer mockup is of the entire piece. I'd be very interested to see how Sample Modeling brass handles the horns in bar 20 and onward.


----------



## purple

Matt Damon said:


> The sample-modeling one sounds good, I'd prefer its timbre, but the difference in a side-by-side comparison, especially regarding performance, is absolutely negligible. The intro on that mockup is also nowhere near as powerful sounding. Certainly not enough to justify the more than a thousand dollars price difference and that's not counting hardware, DAW, etc.
> 
> Actually, it's very difficult to even call this a comparison. Since the Sample Modeling one only samples the first little bit, and only deals with brass, where as the Noteperformer mockup is of the entire piece. I'd be very interested to see how Sample Modeling brass handles the horns in bar 20 and onward.


The difference is not negligible. The NotePerformer version sounds like a 90s video game to me.

Your second sentence honestly baffles me, to be honest. Compare the two versions to any of the live recordings and I think you will find the opposite is true. The only issue I have with the first note there is the trumpets are too quiet, but for the rest of the opening fanfare the brass sounds much more energetic and lively because it was likely recorded in by somebody.

More than a thousand dollars? No. Certainly I think anyone working with samples should invest as much as they want/can afford, but you can absolutely get started with EastWest samples and a cheap DAW like REAPER with less money than it takes to buy NotePerformer, whatever samples you get for it, and your notation software of choice.

But this is all worthless bickering. Neither of us is going to change our minds. We have different ears and that's OK. And the thread isn't even supposed to be about either of these libraries.


----------



## SupremeFist

purple said:


> The difference is not negligible. The NotePerformer version sounds like a 90s video game to me.
> 
> Your second sentence honestly baffles me, to be honest. Compare the two versions to any of the live recordings and I think you will find the opposite is true. The only issue I have with the first note there is the trumpets are too quiet, but for the rest of the opening fanfare the brass sounds much more energetic and lively because it was likely recorded in by somebody.
> 
> More than a thousand dollars? No. Certainly I think anyone working with samples should invest as much as they want/can afford, but you can absolutely get started with EastWest samples and a cheap DAW like REAPER with less money than it takes to buy NotePerformer, whatever samples you get for it, and your notation software of choice.
> 
> But this is all worthless bickering. Neither of us is going to change our minds. We have different ears and that's OK. And the thread isn't even supposed to be about either of these libraries.


Man, if we all stuck to what the thread was supposed to be about it would be very quiet round here.


----------



## purple

SupremeFist said:


> Man, if we all stuck to what the thread was supposed to be about it would be very quiet round here.


Very true!


----------



## christianhenson

I think this is very interesting...


----------



## purple

christianhenson said:


> I think this is very interesting...



This switching between levels of the library and extreme cross compatibility could be quite useful to my teaching friends... In my opinion this feature is the part that really "changes everything"


----------



## Virtuoso

@christianhenson
Currently you have the ability to edit in Discover a project created in Pro with the full range of articulations.

Do you have any plans to fill in the missing piece of the jigsaw and allow people to create from scratch a piece in Discover using the missing articulations (even though obviously they won't be heard correctly), which will then translate perfectly to someone using Pro?


----------



## Jon W

christianhenson said:


> I think this is very interesting...



“…certainly a reasonable representation of what I actually orchestrated…in the original pro version…”

Spot on.


----------



## christianhenson

Virtuoso said:


> @christianhenson
> Currently you have the ability to edit in Discover a project created in Pro with the full range of articulations.
> 
> Do you have any plans to fill in the missing piece of the jigsaw and allow people to create from scratch a piece in Discover using the missing articulations (even though obviously they won't be heard correctly), which will then translate perfectly to someone using Pro?



We’ll watch and listen to how people are using this. The danger for us on launch is misrepresenting the content. However any of the templates we’re making and are up on the page will load the full suite in for you.


----------



## korgscrew2000

cqd said:


> It was a somewhat antiquated south park reference..
> 
> Are you still stuck in Dublin?..


Wasn't it Team America?


----------



## AndyP

Wolfie2112 said:


> They blend nicely.
> 
> I’m on a 2013 MB Pro. I’m not one of those guys that loads up every single articulation for a template, but I have done a test. I can load the entire BBCSO orchestra, with the default mic position, and it’s about 11GB. This is with a single articulation per instance. When you load an instrument, it loads every articulation for that instrument, which is a huge resource hog. What I do is trash everything except for the single patch I need.


I had built a template with self-made patches. Some articulations deactivated and the keyswitches raised 2 octaves depending on the instrument.

All the time I had the problem that the keyswitches didn't work properly. When I used thrills or tremolo, these artucalations always remained active on one note when I switched to legato or staccato.

After the update the problem is gone! Yeah! Should I be able to use this library on my MacBook the way I wanted to? Now it really looks like that. If it stays like this they have solved my biggest problem.

Ingenious is, when I switch to core the deactivated articulations stay deactivated and mine keyswitches are where I put them. I didn't expect that and for once I am thrilled.

The way I see it, articulations cannot be switched on and off in the core version. Therefore it surprises me even more.

Edit: Glad I spoke too soon, the problem is back... grrrr

I just switched from spiccato to thrills and back.
Poorly hammered, but you can hear that on some notes the thrills remain active. At the end of the MP3 file.
It drives me crazy.


----------



## Scalms

barteredbride said:


> For me, there is a different angle to the BBCSO Discover.
> 
> I always wished there was a 'try before you buy' with Spitfire Audio products.
> 
> There was always so many mixed views on the BBC stuff, even after viewing all the reviews and hearing the demos and walkthroughs, I was not sure if it was for me.
> 
> Now I can play around and see for myself before committing to a €1k library with no resell option.
> 
> I know this wasn't the point of Discover, but maybe in the future Spitfire could offer a free 'longs and stacc' lite version with perhaps 2 or 3 instruments of any new libraries costing over 500€.


yes, good point, a "try-pack", gives me the opportunity to demo the tone and air of the BBC, which is something I've wanted to do since its release


----------



## Virtuoso

AndyP said:


> I just switched from spiccato to thrills and back.
> Poorly hammered, but you can hear that on some notes the thrills remain active.
> It drives me crazy.


So the thrill is gone?


----------



## AndyP

Virtuoso said:


> So the thrill is gone?


After the up came the crash.
I built my own patches for my mobile setup. Keyswitches reorganized, articulations reduced, the playable range adapted to my mobile 4 octave keyboard.
That's when the problems started.
On the main computer everything is unchanged and I don't have this problem.
Now I work 70% of my time on the MacBook ... and can't use BBCSO the way I want to. I don't understand the problem, why after reorganizing the keyswitches, suddenly some notes, not all, remain active after switching to a different articulations in the background with the previous articulation. It's like they get stuck. But why not on all notes, just a few?
It is most noticeable with thrills and tremolo because they are clearly audible in the background.
No latch, no overlapping of the keyswitches ... I am somehow helpless why this happens. If other libraries would behave like this I would suspect a different problem, but only BBCSO behaves like this.
I tried to rebuild the custom patches several times, it happens again and again.


----------



## merty

christianhenson said:


> ...



To me the compressed sound of the discovery will be the main problem (based on your demo) when switching to the core or pro version in the same project.

After users first go for levels, but then realize they'll also need to adjust dynamics may be disappointing for them (more work needed than expected moment...). A thing about such basic sounds are they influence the user to use less dynamic adjustment while composing.

But the library is very young and the size is (to me) maybe even too economically designed. So there is lots of room for update and enhancements.


----------



## jonathanwright

Playing with BBCSo Core now, sounds lovely.

One question, I'd like to be able to remove unused techniques, is the technique editor not included in the Core version?


----------



## Alex Fraser

jonathanwright said:


> Playing with BBCSo Core now, sounds lovely.
> 
> One question, I'd like to be able to remove unused techniques, is the technique editor not included in the Core version?


I don't have it, but it's detailed as been available in the "core" user guide at the time of writing.
As I use a 16gb MBP, it's kind of a prerequisite for me to take the plunge..


----------



## StillLife

christianhenson said:


> We’ll watch and listen to how people are using this. The danger for us on launch is misrepresenting the content. However any of the templates we’re making and are up on the page will load the full suite in for you.


iI am definitely a fan of this direction. I think this offering of different versions and templates is brilliant. Would help my workflow tremendously. Therefore: any chance of a Cubase template? And, while I am dreaming: any chances for templates for other Spitfire Libraries? The studio series? All Olafurs?


----------



## idematoa

I fell into the Core...


----------



## Bluemount Score

idematoa said:


> I fell into the Core...


There's no coreming back. Have fun!


----------



## jonathanwright

Alex Fraser said:


> I don't have it, but it's detailed as been available in the "core" user guide at the time of writing.
> As I use a 16gb MBP, it's kind of a prerequisite for me to take the plunge..



Yeah, I saw it in the manual too, but the little icon isn't there for me to able to edit the techniques.

UPDATE: I just noticed the icon isn't there on the Core walkthrough video either.


----------



## Alex Fraser

jonathanwright said:


> Yeah, I saw it in the manual too, but the little icon isn't there for me to able to edit the techniques.
> 
> UPDATE: I just noticed the icon isn't there on the Core walkthrough video either.


Well, that’s..er..interesting. 
@Spitfire Team, any clarity would be most welcome. Thanks!


----------



## SpitfireSupport

Alex Fraser said:


> Well, that’s..er..interesting.
> @Spitfire Team, any clarity would be most welcome. Thanks!



Sorry folks that’s actually an error in the manual that will be rectified


----------



## Scamper

SpitfireSupport said:


> Sorry folks that’s actually an error in the manual that will be rectified


That means in the Core version, you can't even unload articulations from a preset and always have to load the whole patch into RAM?

Seeing Core as a more entry level version of Pro, possibly for people with weaker systems as well, I thought this feature would be a given and I was looking forward to get Core, but looks like I can't really use it then.


----------



## yiph2

Scamper said:


> That means in the Core version, you can't even unload articulations from a preset and always have to load the whole patch into RAM?
> 
> Seeing Core as a more entry level version of Pro, possibly for people with weaker systems as well, I thought this feature would be a given and I was looking forward to get Core, but looks like I can't really use it then.


It's kind of strange, as I downloaded the Core templates (I don't have the VST), and they have instruments with different articulations in different tracks...


----------



## Eptesicus

Scamper said:


> That means in the Core version, you can't even unload articulations from a preset and always have to load the whole patch into RAM?
> 
> Seeing Core as a more entry level version of Pro, possibly for people with weaker systems as well, I thought this feature would be a given and I was looking forward to get Core, but looks like I can't really use it then.



That does seem like a rather bizarre design decision for a product marketed to be of benefit for less powerful systems/for working on a laptop etc


----------



## Alex Fraser

Yep, it occurs that "core" users would really benefit from the system. Strange.
FWIW, I wouldn't mind forgoing the complete editor if it was possible to simply unload articulations, like in SF Kontakt libraries.


----------



## jonathanwright

Alex Fraser said:


> Yep, it occurs that "core" users would really benefit from the system. Strange.
> FWIW, I wouldn't mind forgoing the complete editor if it was possible to simply unload articulations, like in SF Kontakt libraries.



Exactly my thinking.

I've just loaded all of the patches into my template, and the RAM footprint is 8.62GB. It doesn't appear to increase when I start playing with articulations.

So it's not too bad. It a bit of a pain waiting for it to load though, even with SSD's.


----------



## easyrider

jonathanwright said:


> Exactly my thinking.
> 
> I've just loaded all of the patches into my template, and the RAM footprint is 8.62GB. It doesn't appear to increase when I start playing with articulations.
> 
> So it's not too bad. It a bit of a pain waiting for it to load though, even with SSD's.



is it just a BBC core template?


----------



## Alex Fraser

jonathanwright said:


> Exactly my thinking.
> 
> I've just loaded all of the patches into my template, and the RAM footprint is 8.62GB. It doesn't appear to increase when I start playing with articulations.
> 
> So it's not too bad. It a bit of a pain waiting for it to load though, even with SSD's.


Thanks Jonathan.
May I ask - is that every "all in one" patch in Core you've loaded? I could live with an 8gb load.


----------



## jonathanwright

easyrider said:


> is it just a BBC core template?



Yes, and...



Alex Fraser said:


> Thanks Jonathan.
> May I ask - is that every "all in one" patch in Core you've loaded? I could live with an 8gb load.



Yes!

I've just run another quick test, it's a little higher, not by much though.


----------



## yiph2

jonathanwright said:


> Yes, and...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!


So it's all the instrument articulations in the same track right? So no separate articulation tracks? 8GB RAM is not bad


----------



## jonathanwright

yiph2 said:


> So it's all the instrument articulations in the same track right? So no separate articulation tracks? 8GB RAM is not bad



Exactly, all of the default 'all-in-one' patches per track (in Cubase for this experiment).

I've actually broken the 'untuned' percussion patch out into separate tracks though.


----------



## easyrider

jonathanwright said:


> Yes, and...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!
> 
> I've just run another quick test, it's a little higher, not by much though.



Could I be cheeky and ask for a copy of your template? I’m new to all this and it would help me a great deal to see how you do it.


----------



## jonathanwright

easyrider said:


> Could I be cheeky and ask for a copy of your template? I’m new to all this and it would help me a great deal to see how you do it.



You can, I'm not sure what you'd learn though, it's just a bunch of instrument tracks at the moment - no expression maps or anything fancy!


----------



## redlester

Just downloaded the new revised templates off the Page, and the key switches (which were wrong in the original template) are all correct now (well, the ones I've checked at least). 

Also, I note we now have the other templates with one track per articulation, and one with all articulations per instance - as promised by Christian at launch. Thanks for this Spitfire.

@Alex Fraser as @yiph2 says above, if you load the Core Logic multi-instance template (what they previously referred to as the Hybrid template on initial release) the longs and shorts are separated out in each relevant instance. So there must be a way of doing it, but I have no idea how! (Tellingly though, there is no template provided for one track per articulation for the Core version).


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> I don't have it, but it's detailed as been available in the "core" user guide at the time of writing.
> As I use a 16gb MBP, it's kind of a prerequisite for me to take the plunge..



Alex, this is what I get re. memory use with the Core version. This is using the "Multiple Instance - Full Routing" Core template, with all tracks turned on.






And in Activity Monitor:





I've only got 16GB and I can use the Pro version if I use Dynamic Plugin Loading.


----------



## Alex Fraser

Cheers @jonathanwright and @redlester.

That's incredibly helpful and may explain why the artic manager isn't included (user manual snaffle aside.) Coupled with Logic Dynamic Plugin loading, I can easily live with that memory overhead, and I assume that's before you start tweaking the buffers and such.
Cheers - A


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> I assume that's before you start tweaking the buffers and such.



Good point. I tweaked my settings in the plugin during the aftermath of the initial release, so my settings are:
Max Voices: 768
Preload size: 6144
Stream buffer: 8192

I believe these are different to the defaults.


----------



## redlester

Regarding dynamic plugin loading, be aware that the latest versions of the templates don't seem to have the tracks fully turned off. If you click on a Stack, that switches on and loads into memory the plugin for every track underneath it.

I will be going through and creating my own tweak of the template with everything fully disabled so I can use dynamic loading to the maximum benefit.


----------



## redlester

Alex Fraser said:


> That's incredibly helpful and may explain why the artic manager isn't included (user manual snaffle aside.)



Am getting curious about this. I've looked at the "Violin 1 - Longs" instance in the Core template, and saved that as a User preset. But it doesn't then appear in the preset browser panel for re-loading at a later time. But if I go into the plugin settings and open the drop-down for setting the default patch on load, the user preset I just created is listed there!

Seems a bit odd. I wonder if the artic manager was going to be part of it but was removed at the last minute?


----------



## Alex Fraser

redlester said:


> Seems a bit odd. I wonder if the artic manager was going to be part of it but was removed at the last minute?


Odds on the manager code is lurking behind the sliver gui anyway, but the icon to access it has been removed.

Edit: That said I don’t want to give anyone more “Spitfire is Evil” ammunition. It would make sense in maintaining a shared code base between versions_ if_ it was.


----------



## Scamper

Does anybody know, if there was talk about some sort of purge functionality (like in Kontakt) coming for BBCSO Player at some point?
Then the lack of the articulation editor for the sake of unloading articulations would also be a non-issue.


----------



## styledelk

Finally got a proper mess around with BBC Core this morning. I'm redesigning my studio right now, so this is played entirely on the Ableton Push 2 into Live.
Very clearly had Tchiakovsky's 6th Symphony swimming around in my head today.
Not a finished or even halfway competent piece of music. Just getting a feel for blending.


----------



## Fleer

With the Core version on my laptop and Discover on my netbook, it seems I have to repair paths in the Spitfire download app each time I swap between computers. Would that be right?


----------



## idematoa

Only a Horn from 3:20...


----------



## korgscrew2000

Spitfire are like Apple here. 

They bring out a product and call it the best whatever since last whatever. But turns out its just a rehash with a nicer front end and copied what other phone companies have done before. 

Like the string waves in OACE and aperture. Game changing, but 8dio did them years ago. Same with a free orchestra, project Sam did it a while ago.

I just hate the marketing, not the product. What's funny is that I work in marketing department. I need to get out of it 😂

But we still keep buying em, because it's Apple (spitfire).


----------



## Fleer

Good comparison. And I (have to) keep buying Apple products, not because they look or feel so good (as they did) but because they work well together. Spitfire is somewhat similar, especially with these BBCSO versions to switch between while maintaining compatibility. And I do like the look and feel of their app, designed by UsTwo, the company that made those wonderful games like Monument Valley.


----------



## Brasart

korgscrew2000 said:


> Spitfire are like Apple here.
> 
> They bring out a product and call it the best whatever since last whatever. But turns out its just a rehash with a nicer front end and copied what other phone companies have done before.
> 
> Like the string waves in OACE and aperture. Game changing, but 8dio did them years ago. Same with a free orchestra, project Sam did it a while ago.
> 
> I just hate the marketing, not the product. What's funny is that I work in marketing department. I need to get out of it 😂
> 
> But we still keep buying em, because it's Apple (spitfire).



I feel you're wrong about both brands.
I really _really_ don't remember them using "game changing" or any _'never been done before'_ kinda talk about OACE's waves & Aperture's refractions, as the marketing wasn't even centered around those features and more about the rest of each libraries.
Having them both, I do think it sounds unique and better than any arcs from 8dio or ProjectSAM libraries.

Speaking of ProjectSAM, while their "The Free Orchestra" is a fun and useful initiative, it is by far not even close to being a free orchestra -- contrary to what its name suggests, it's a collection of useful but limited tools.
I have to say I'm surprised that such a marketing _connoisseur_ as yourself didn't pick up the irony of labelling their serie "The Free Orchestra", yet not delivering one.

Even then I fail to understand your point, because BBCSO Discovery isn't about being "the first and only free orchestra on the market !!!", and if you think it is, well you've completely missed the point and the last 20 pages of this thread!


----------



## korgscrew2000

Brasart said:


> I feel you're wrong about both brands.
> I really _really_ don't remember them using "game changing" or any _'never been done before'_ kinda talk about OACE's waves & Aperture's refractions, as the marketing wasn't even centered around those features and more about the rest of each libraries.
> Having them both, I do think it sounds unique and better than any arcs from 8dio or ProjectSAM libraries.
> 
> Speaking of ProjectSAM, while their "The Free Orchestra" is a fun and useful initiative, it is by far not even close to being close to - contrary to what its name suggests - a free orchestra, it's a collection of useful but limited tools.
> I have to say I'm surprised that such a marketing _connoisseur_ as yourself didn't pick up the irony of labelling their serie "The Free Orchestra", yet not delivering one.
> 
> Even then I fail to understand your point, because BBCSO Discovery isn't about being "the first and only free orchestra on the market !!!", and if you think it is well, you've completely missed the point and the last 20 pages of this thread!



It looks free to me on their website. 

While we're talking about it, I'm sure you loved the Aperture marketing then. A one time limited only plug in, never to be released again. Yours, if you spend a qualifying amount during our black friday sales. Good luck, you'll either be just under the qualifying amount or a way over it.


----------



## Brasart

korgscrew2000 said:


> It looks free to me on their website.
> 
> While we're talking about it, I'm sure you loved the Aperture marketing then. A one time limited only plug in, never to be released again. Yours, if you spend a qualifying amount during our black friday sales. Good luck, you'll either be just under the qualifying amount or a way over it.



Reading the post you're quoting would be better; never said it wasn't free?

Not sure why this now shifts to Aperture's black friday offer, but ok:

Thanks for their sale, I was just over the payline (318€), and that was buying everything I had anticipated to buy before the sale started.
So I got a free library, which is one of my most used today, which means I got a fantastic library for free.

Now did I like the way they were selling it? Not really, and most people didn't, so they acknowledged it and didn't offer the same kind of deal on their next sales.
See? They listened, as brands do when their marketing fail.


----------



## jon wayne

Spitfire Team: Great product, happy to have a cohesive orchestra and a RAM save option in Discovery switching. No complaints here, too busy composing and enjoying the workflow!!


----------



## Alex Fraser

jon wayne said:


> No complaints here, too busy composing..


You understand this is against forum rules?


----------



## muziksculp

Q. About the BBCSO having a 'Cohesive' sound, So.. would you describe Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra as having a non-Cohesive sound ?


----------



## Noeticus

muziksculp said:


> Q. About the BBCSO having a 'Cohesive' sound, So.. would you describe Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra as having a non-Cohesive sound ?



It just takes a bit more effort to make the SSO sound more cohesive, whereas the BBCSO already sounds cohesive.


----------



## muziksculp

Noeticus said:


> It just takes a bit more effort to make the SSO sound more cohesive, whereas the BBCSO already sounds cohesive.



OK, just to double check, I'm guessing you mean making it sound more cohesive using Eq, Limiting, reverb, ..etc.


----------



## muziksculp

The big question for me, is : How useful is it to have the BBCSO Pro or Core, if I already have SSO ?


----------



## ism

It’s not just the cohesiveness, its the combination of clarity and cohesiveness. I can often get libraries to blend via a careful mix of early and late reflections. The problem is that its often a trade off between cohesiveness and clarity. 

It’s also something that I struggle in the mix. SSW and Solo strings especially, have taken me a while to find just the right sweet spots in mixing tree and close mics until I find a balance of clarity and spatiality and cohesiveness in mix that I like. (Love in fact). 

And yet out of the box, BBCSO to my ear a sound that is the most uncompromising mix of clarity and cohesiveness and clarity that I’ve ever heard in a sample library.


----------



## Noeticus

muziksculp said:


> OK, just to double check, I'm guessing you mean making it sound more cohesive using Eq, Limiting, reverb, ..etc.



Yes. But the SSO already sounds cohesive to some ears. It really depends on how detailed you care to make a mix. Personally, composition is far, far more important than cohesive sounds.


----------



## Noeticus

muziksculp said:


> The big question for me, is : How useful is it to have the BBCSO Pro or Core, if I already have SSO ?



If you already own the SSO, then you don't particularly need the BBCSO, but you will buy it because you want more variations to use when the mood hits.

I would buy the Pro over Core given you already have the taste for the SSO.


----------



## EasterIslandStatue

Just finished my first music project using my brand new BBC Orchestra (Core) 

Aside from the vocals, all the other instrumentation is from Core:


----------



## muziksculp

Noeticus said:


> If you already own the SSO, then you don't particularly need the BBCSO, but you will buy it because you want more variations to use when the mood hits.
> 
> I would buy the Pro over Core given you already have the taste for the SSO.



Thanks for the helpful feedback. I was thinking about adding BBCSO Core to try it out, even try mixing it with SSO, before purchasing the BBCSO Pro version. But I'm still trying to decide. I have some time to decide before May 31st.


----------



## muk

ism said:


> And yet out of the box, BBCSO to my ear a sound that is the most uncompromising mix of clarity and cohesiveness and clarity that I’ve ever heard in a sample library.



That's what is drawing me to BBC SO too. It sounds just so well recorded, in a fantastic room. The sound aesthetic is very close to my own preferences. And that is something that you can not, or only to a very small degree, influence with post processing.

It's a pity then that the library itself has several shortcomings for my tastes. There were corners cut to bring the price down below the 1000$ mark. For me personally they were not always the right curners to cut. It does not have enough dynamic layers in my opinion. The legatos seem to be hit and miss. There are reported problems with the brass.

I do have a nice selection sample libraries. Most of them do not have these shortcomings. But also none does have the transparent classical sound that the BBC SO samples have.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Noeticus said:


> If you already own the SSO, then you don't particularly need the BBCSO, but you will buy it because you want more variations to use when the mood hits.
> 
> I would buy the Pro over Core given you already have the taste for the SSO.



I have the SSO, and feel absolutely no desire to buy the BBC product. I would also remind you that there is a significant reboot of the SSO library coming this year (should have been last year) and when that drops, you may well start to regret spending rather a lot of money on yet another orchestra....

I learned the hard way that studying orchestration and practice has a far more beneficial effect on my music than more sample libraries. 

(Says he having just bought some more VSL Pianos.......)


----------



## SupremeFist

Michael Antrum said:


> I have the SSO, and feel absolutely no desire to buy the BBC product. I would also remind you that there is a significant reboot of the SSO library coming this year (should have been last year) and when that drops, you may well start to regret spending rather a lot of money on yet another orchestra....
> 
> I learned the hard way that studying orchestration and practice has a far more beneficial effect on my music than more sample libraries.
> 
> (Says he having just bought some more VSL Pianos.......)


Buying more pianos is never wrong.


----------



## Alex Fraser

muk said:


> That's what is drawing me to BBC SO too. It sounds just so well recorded, in a fantastic room. The sound aesthetic is very close to my own preferences. And that is something that you can not, or only to a very small degree, influence with post processing.
> 
> It's a pity then that the library itself has several shortcomings for my tastes. There were corners cut to bring down the price below 1000$. For me personally they were not always the right curners to cut. It does not have enough dynamic layers in my opinion. The legatos seem to be hit and miss. There are reported problems with the brass.
> 
> I do have a nice selection sample libraries. Most of them do not have these shortcomings. But also none does have the transparent classical sound that the BBC SO samples have.


That's the danger when it comes to reading this forum and buying libraries. Every library has weak spots but they are often exaggerated by those suffering from some sort of buyers remorse - or worse - an inability or unwillingness to work around the problem. (That's not aimed at you, Muk.)

Perhaps the best approach would be to buy "Core" and write around the strengths of the library whilst enjoying the sound? I know that'll be my own approach. At £299, I can't remember a "full" orchestra coming packaged with so much pedigree.


----------



## rottoy

It's all about to change, lads.


----------



## Mike Fox

Brasart said:


> I feel you're wrong about both brands.
> I really _really_ don't remember them using "game changing" or any _'never been done before'_ kinda talk about OACE's waves



Spitfire used "game changing" for BBCSO. 

I guess it is for some.


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

Are BBCSO's strings as good as Spitfire Symphonic Strings?

I've been templating for a while now and have found SA's Bernard Herrmann strings to be the best among those I own at playability and fitting themselves in a template, so SSS seems like the logical upgrade from that.

But if BBCSO's strings are as good as SSS then I may as well get the whole orchestra for the same price now.


----------



## jbuhler

muk said:


> That's what is drawing me to BBC SO too. It sounds just so well recorded, in a fantastic room. The sound aesthetic is very close to my own preferences. And that is something that you can not, or only to a very small degree, influence with post processing.
> 
> It's a pity then that the library itself has several shortcomings for my tastes. There were corners cut to bring the price down below the 1000$ mark. For me personally they were not always the right curners to cut. It does not have enough dynamic layers in my opinion. The legatos seem to be hit and miss. There are reported problems with the brass.
> 
> I do have a nice selection sample libraries. Most of them do not have these shortcomings. But also none does have the transparent classical sound that the BBC SO samples have.


It all depends on how well BBCSO takes supplementation and retains the cohesion and clarity. If the library truly takes supplementation well these issues become less important because you can layer and/or substitute instruments of your choosing once you’ve matched them to BBCSO. But I don’t know if BBCSO can be used this way and retain the clarity and cohesion. I haven’t heard enough mixed examples to form an opinion on them or how much work supplementation would be.

I do know that if I was starting over again I’d build from BBCSO rather than SSO/SCS. But since I already have SSO and a bunch of supplements and substitutes for that I’m not sure BBCSO makes sense unless it somehow improves my workflow and/or the resultant sound.


----------



## jbuhler

audiosprite said:


> Are BBCSO's strings as good as Spitfire Symphonic Strings?
> 
> I've been templating for a while now and have found SA's Bernard Herrmann strings to be the best among those I own at playability and fitting themselves in a template, so SSS seems like the logical upgrade from that.
> 
> But if BBCSO's strings are as good as SSS then I may as well get the whole orchestra for the same price now.


I’ve never gotten along especially well with SSS and have generally used SCS instead and even when I use SSS I most often layer SCS with them. SSS is a very large sound. I don’t have BBCSO but from the demos I’ve heard they sound considerably more nimble, and I prefer the BBCSO sound. I think SSS has more articulations. BBCSO Pro has the section leaders whereas with SSS you need to get those separately.


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

Thanks for the perspective @jbuhler 

Although I just realized - if I get BBCSO maybe I can just stop templating altogether? This would be worth it on its own...


----------



## Ashermusic

audiosprite said:


> Thanks for the perspective @jbuhler
> 
> Although I just realized - if I get BBCSO maybe I can just stop templating altogether? This would be worth it on its own...




Indeed, that is what originally intrigued me.


----------



## RogiervG

but those horns... i just don't find the sound appealing.. too brassy too quickly..(and thin/nasal sounding)


----------



## Fleer

I think that, if you have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond, BBCSO would be a better addition to your palette than SSO.


----------



## John R Wilson

RogiervG said:


> but those horns... i just don't find the sound appealing.. too brassy too quickly..(and thin/nasal sounding)



Yeah the brass ain't the best in the BBCSO. Best to supplement it with another brass library such as EWHO Brass.


----------



## Ashermusic

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah the brass ain't the best in the BBCSO. Best to supplement it with another brass library such as EWHO Brass.



But doesn't that kind of defeat the raison d'être of BBCO? It seems like a very specific workflow and harder to integrate other libraries with.


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

I do have plenty of non-Spitfire libraries that I'd want to continue using (brass especially). If anyone has experience blending other libraries with BBCSO I'd love to hear it. Without an AIR IR it seems like it could be very challenging.

(also - how does blending other Spitfire libraries fare?)

Actually most importantly - is the library balanced well internally? I own most of the Berlin series and they do not balance on their own, which kind of defeats the purpose imo


----------



## RogiervG

Mattia Chiappa often blends bbsco pro with SM Brass.
Not sure how he does it, but it sounds very good as if they are in the same space like.
Perhaps a good Impulse response/convolution reverb plugin?


----------



## John R Wilson

Ashermusic said:


> But doesn't that kind of defeat the raison d'être of BBCO? It seems like a very specific workflow and harder to integrate other libraries with.



I agree, however, I just don't like the sound of some of the brass instruments in the BBCSO. Ideally it would have been nice to have had some better brass or an update to resolve some of its downfalls but I feel currently its best to also integrate another brass library in place of it or alongside the BBCSO brass. I think you'll get better results doing this than purely using the BBCSO brass in some pieces.


----------



## Ashermusic

John R Wilson said:


> I agree, however, I just don't like the sound of some of the brass instruments in the BBCSO. Ideally it would have been nice to have had some better brass or an update to resolve some of its downfalls but I feel currently its best to also integrate another brass library in place of it or alongside the BBCSO brass. I think you'll get better results doing this than purely using the BBCSO brass in some pieces.



But given the unique way it handles articulations, how? Seems like it would be tremendously time consuming. With most libraries, I can customize the workflow more, correct? Or am I assuming issues that did not in fact exist or exaggerating them?


----------



## John R Wilson

Ashermusic said:


> But given the unique way it handles articulations, how? Seems like it would be tremendously time consuming. With most libraries, I can customize the workflow more, correct? Or am I assuming issues that did not in fact exist or exaggerating them?



I've set up my own key switches for the BBCSO using Cubase Expression maps which I use across all the libraries I use. So a legato string patch on violins 1 in Hollywood strings is assigned to the same key switch as the legato on the BBCSO and so on for all the main articulations I use.


----------



## Ashermusic

John R Wilson said:


> I've set up my own key switches for the BBCSO using Cubase Expression maps which I use across all the libraries I use. So a legato string patch on violins 1 in Hollywood strings is assigned to the same key switch as the legato on the BBCSO and so on for all the main articulations I use.



Cool, I could also do that with Logic Pro Articulation ID sets.

But again, for me specifically, I already have a lot of really good sounding libraries that I mix and match to my satisfaction. The appeal of this was having just one with everything in place that on its own would be good enough and that I could do support work for other composers using the same.

So I guess I will wait until a composer writes me that he want to hire me and we both will use it.


----------



## jbuhler

Ashermusic said:


> But given the unique way it handles articulations, how? Seems like it would be tremendously time consuming. With most libraries, I can customize the workflow more, correct? Or am I assuming issues that did not in fact exist or exaggerating them?


I don't think BBCSO handles articulations any different than other SF libraries that run inside the SF player. It would be a question of positioning the supplementing/substituting library right and finding reverb, etc. so that it had the proper sonic characteristics to sit with BBCSO. Basically what we do whenever we're mixing libraries/spaces. What's not clear to me is whether having the BBCSO already clear and coherent as a guide speeds up the process of layering and substituting in an appreciable way.


----------



## John R Wilson

Ashermusic said:


> Cool, I could also do that with Logic Pro Articulation ID sets.
> 
> But again, for me specifically, I already have a lot of really good sounding libraries that I mix and match to my satisfaction. The appeal of this was having just one with everything in place that on its own would be good enough and that I could do support work for other composers using the same.
> 
> So I guess I will wait until a composer writes me that he want to hire me and we both will use it.



I ended up deciding to just stick to using one or two main orchestral libraries that I would use to simplify the process and that idea of having one library with everything in place was the appeal for me as well. It's just at times when using the BBCSO you will probably still want to supplement it or layer it with other libraries to make up for some of its shortcomings.


----------



## Brasart

Mike Fox said:


> Spitfire used "game changing" for BBCSO.
> 
> I guess it is for some.



Oh yeah absolutely, I was responding to those phrases being used for Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions and Aperture!

It was indeed for some, as myself; it has a really enticing way of always forcing me to really think about complete orchestration, something I would not do much before, I really enjoy how it changed my way of making music


----------



## dzilizzi

audiosprite said:


> I do have plenty of non-Spitfire libraries that I'd want to continue using (brass especially). If anyone has experience blending other libraries with BBCSO I'd love to hear it. Without an AIR IR it seems like it could be very challenging.
> 
> (also - how does blending other Spitfire libraries fare?)
> 
> Actually most importantly - is the library balanced well internally? I own most of the Berlin series and they do not balance on their own, which kind of defeats the purpose imo


They are not allowed to make an IR of Air Lyndhurst per the recording agreement. However, BBCSO was recorded at Maida Vale, which someone should record and IR of before it no longer is a recording studio. I don't believe there are any restrictions on it.


----------



## babylonwaves

Ashermusic said:


> But given the unique way it handles articulations, how?


what are you talking about?


----------



## Brasart

Haven't had time to watch it yet but Guy made a video about BBCSO Discover!


----------



## Zedcars

dzilizzi said:


> They are not allowed to make an IR of Air Lyndhurst per the recording agreement. However, BBCSO was recorded at Maida Vale, which someone should record and IR of before it no longer is a recording studio. I don't believe there are any restrictions on it.


They already have an IR (or IRs) of Maida Vale. It’s accessed via the Reverb dial. Unfortunately it’s locked inside their plugin with no way to use it on anything non BBCSO. I did try 3 different methods to extract it but none of them were successful.

Maybe one day they will release a MIR Pro like plugin for the MV IR(s).


----------



## Ashermusic

babylonwaves said:


> what are you talking about?



Doesn't they do it by UACC?


----------



## jonnybutter

This is probably a dumb question, but there's no manual and no answer to this on the Spitfire site: anybody know how to load multis (in Logic) in the Discover version? I see that the way you configure a multi instance in Logic itself is normal - you can choose stereo or various multi configurations, go to the mixer window, click on the little plus sign which adds auxes, etc; BUT, I don't see a way to load more than one instrument into the plugin itself. Anybody know?


----------



## jbuhler

jonnybutter said:


> This is probably a dumb question, but there's no manual and no answer to this on the Spitfire site: anybody know how to load multis (in Logic) in the Discover version? I see that the way you configure a multi instance in Logic itself is normal - you can choose stereo or various multi configurations, go to the mixer window, click on the little plus sign which adds auxes, etc; BUT, I don't see a way to load more than one instrument into the plugin itself. Anybody know?


As far as I'm aware, the SF player doesn't have this capability. Multitimbral outs are used for routing out mic positions, as I recall, but you can only load one instrument into an instance.


----------



## John R Wilson

jbuhler said:


> As far as I'm aware, the SF player doesn't have this capability. Multitimbral outs are used for routing out mic positions, as I recall, but you can only load one instrument into an instance.



That is the one thing I really hate about the player. It means that you cant make any full ensemble sketching patches or your own pre orchestrated multi instruments such as violins 1+2 in octaves.


----------



## jonnybutter

jbuhler said:


> As far as I'm aware, the SF player doesn't have this capability. Multitimbral outs are used for routing out mic positions, as I recall, but you can only load one instrument into an instance.



Thanks jbuhler. As John Wilson says, they should be able to be used to make ensemble setups too. I wonder why - in Logic anyway - there are all those options for multis if the plugin itself doesn't allow it? Maybe they are teasing us to get the bigger versions?  Probably not going to work on me - I have tons of orchestral instruments already, including Spitfire ones. I just liked the small footprint and small price.

oh well. Thanks all


----------



## jbuhler

John R Wilson said:


> That is the one thing I really hate about the player. It means that you cant make any full ensemble sketching patches or your own pre orchestrated multi instruments such as violins 1+2 in octaves.


I don't have BBCSO, but I use Unify to do these kinds of sketching multis for HZ Strings.


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

dzilizzi said:


> They are not allowed to make an IR of Air Lyndhurst per the recording agreement. However, BBCSO was recorded at Maida Vale, which someone should record and IR of before it no longer is a recording studio. I don't believe there are any restrictions on it.





Zedcars said:


> They already have an IR (or IRs) of Maida Vale. It’s accessed via the Reverb dial. Unfortunately it’s locked inside their plugin with no way to use it on anything non BBCSO. I did try 3 different methods to extract it but none of them were successful.
> 
> Maybe one day they will release a MIR Pro like plugin for the MV IR(s).


Oh interesting. Does this mean BBCSO doesn't effectively blend with other spitfire libraries?

Not having to template stuff like this ever again is the main thing I'm after, but I still want to use all the libraries I already have - including plenty of Spitfire offerings.


----------



## MOMA

Now, I would say that the ultimate combination seem to be the BBC Core and – Cinematic Studio Solo Strings as excellent first chair. And then you can combine the BBC Core brass and CSB solo instruments and blow all others of the park I do recommend it. Indeed!

Take care and best to you all from Stockholm, Sweden


----------



## Alex Fraser

Ashermusic said:


> Doesn't they do it by UACC?


Not sure if it's UACC but I believe the key switches are standardised to a degree, so long is always long etc. Like you say, articulation maps are the way forward. I have maps for the entire BBCSO that someone on Twitter made for the now "pro" version. Give me a shout if you want and I'll dig them out. Or use the Babylon waves stuff.



jonnybutter said:


> Thanks jbuhler. As John Wilson says, they should be able to be used to make ensemble setups too. I wonder why - in Logic anyway - there are all those options for multis if the plugin itself doesn't allow it? Maybe they are teasing us to get the bigger versions?  Probably not going to work on me - I have tons of orchestral instruments already, including Spitfire ones. I just liked the small footprint and small price.
> 
> oh well. Thanks all


Have you tried making a track stack in Logic? Might be a perfect solution for creating ensemble setups, depending on what you want to do.


audiosprite said:


> Oh interesting. Does this mean BBCSO doesn't effectively blend with other spitfire libraries?
> 
> Not having to template stuff like this ever again is the main thing I'm after, but I still want to use all the libraries I already have - including plenty of Spitfire offerings.


I think the whole "blending" thing is massively overplayed. The BBCSO will blend with anything you want within reason, don't worry about it.


----------



## EricValette

MOMA said:


> Now, I would say that the ultimate combination seem to be the BBC Core and – Cinematic Studio Solo Strings as excellent first chair. And then you can combine the BBC Core brass and CSB solo instruments and blow all others of the park I do recommend it. Indeed!
> 
> Take care and best to you all from Stockholm, Sweden


I totally agree with that!

Another great combination is to layering BBCSO Strings with CSSS and Berlin Strings ... it works like a charm


----------



## jbuhler

Alex Fraser said:


> Not sure if it's UACC but I believe the key switches are standardised to a degree, so long is always long etc. Like you say, articulation maps are the way forward. I have maps for the entire BBCSO that someone on Twitter made for the now "pro" version. Give me a shout if you want and I'll dig them out. Or use the Babylon waves stuff.
> 
> 
> Have you tried making a track stack in Logic? Might be a perfect solution for creating ensemble setups, depending on what you want to do.
> 
> I think the whole "blending" thing is massively overplayed. The BBCSO will blend with anything you want within reason, don't worry about it.


It's less a question of blending than a question of whether layering it with other libraries attenuates the cohesive and coherent character.


----------



## John R Wilson

jbuhler said:


> I don't have BBCSO, but I use Unify to do these kinds of sketching multis for HZ Strings.



Thanks for this, I've not come across Unify before but this looks like a good work around for the issue of no multi-timbral support with the spitfire player. What's the performance like in Unify? I have tried to play multiple tracks of the BBCSO simultaneously in Cubase but I do end up getting performance issues and audio dropouts when attempting this.


----------



## jbuhler

John R Wilson said:


> Thanks for this, I've not come across Unify before but this looks like a good work around for the issue of no multi-timbral support with the spitfire player. What's the performance like in Unify? I have tried to play multiple tracks of the BBCSO simultaneously in Cubase but I do end up getting performance issues and audio dropouts when attempting this.


I've had good luck with it. And it has had a lot of performance enhancements since its release. It doesn't yet allow for routing—you just get one stereo out from it—so that is a disadvantage to using it as a plugin organizer/holder beyond sketching. But it works really well for something like creating an ensemble patch in HZ Strings. And its patch organization makes it very convenient for locating things. I don't have BBCSO but I do have HZ Strings and the Whitacre Choir, both of which use the same player. I haven't had any issues with dropouts and performance seems to be about the same as if I have that number of instruments playing in the DAW. (I use Logic.)


----------



## John R Wilson

jbuhler said:


> I've had good luck with it. And it has had a lot of performance enhancements since its release. It doesn't yet allow for routing—you just get one stereo out from it—so that is a disadvantage to using it as a plugin organizer/holder beyond sketching. But it works really well for something like creating an ensemble patch in HZ Strings. And its patch organization makes it very convenient for locating things. I don't have BBCSO but I do have HZ Strings and the Whitacre Choir, both of which use the same player. I haven't had any issues with dropouts and performance seems to be about the same as if I have that number of instruments playing in the DAW. (I use Logic.)



I've just downloaded the demo for this and it works really well, think I might have to get a copy of it. Loaded in five track of the BBCSO all the violin sections and its playing them all with no audio dropouts, so it looks like this will resolve my issues with the spitfire player not being multi-timbral. I can now make some multi- instrument tracks for sketching with the BBCSO using unify. Its strange, because if I try and play 5 tracks at the same time with the BBCSO within Cubase ill get audio dropouts but in the unify plugin its working with no performance issues at all. However, It is still a little annoying as I would have liked the Spitfire player to have supported multi-timbral instrument capabilities in the first place rather than having to pay for an additional plugin. Nonetheless, the unify plugin does look like it also includes some pretty cool content and useful patch organisation. It is a bit of a shame that it doesn't support any routing as of yet beyond a single stereo out but it'll be useful for making some sketching patches for the BBCSO


----------



## givemenoughrope

Did anything change? Just checking...


----------



## jaketanner

I've heard a few walkthroughs on BBCSO and to me, the brass sounds fine. I have SStB and THAT brass is terrible, but BBC's sounds pretty good to me...so what exactly is it that people don't like?


----------



## Jett Hitt

jaketanner said:


> I've heard a few walkthroughs on BBCSO and to me, the brass sounds fine. I have SStB and THAT brass is terrible, but BBC's sounds pretty good to me...so what exactly is it that people don't like?


In general, I find BBCSO brass quite acceptable, in fact even good--mostly. Except the solo horn. It is a trainwreck.


----------



## lgmcben

Jett Hitt said:


> In general, I find BBCSO brass quite acceptable, in fact even good--mostly. Except the solo horn. It is a trainwreck.


Can you elaborate? Just curious. I don't have it.


----------



## JeffP06

John R Wilson said:


> I've just downloaded the demo for this and it works really well, think I might have to get a copy of it. Loaded in five track of the BBCSO all the violin sections and its playing them all with no audio dropouts, so it looks like this will resolve my issues with the spitfire player not being multi-timbral. I can now make some multi- instrument tracks for sketching with the BBCSO using unify. Its strange, because if I try and play 5 tracks at the same time with the BBCSO within Cubase ill get audio dropouts but in the unify plugin its working with no performance issues at all. However, It is still a little annoying as I would have liked the Spitfire player to have supported multi-timbral instrument capabilities in the first place rather than having to pay for an additional plugin. Nonetheless, the unify plugin does look like it also includes some pretty cool content and useful patch organisation. It is a bit of a shame that it doesn't support any routing as of yet beyond a single stereo out but it'll be useful for making some sketching patches for the BBCSO


Hello

Concerning cpu, it is not strange... Unify uses one core per layer. Concerning multi midi inputs and audio outputs routing, they are probably planned for the future unify pro version.


----------



## Brasart

I have BBCSO Pro and the brass is fine to me, what most people have mentioned not liking about it is the lack of dynamic layers and the fact that it doesn't go to ff/fff -- but there are "Cuivre" patches that are included and can make up for it, and coupled with the Sfz patches will make BBCSO's brass blast away!

When people talk about having another brass library to supplement BBCSO, it doesn't mean (at least for me) throwing away every brass articulation from it, just know what it's best at doing and what it's not

_EDIT: Oh and the lack of muted articulations has been mentioned too, I don't use those much myself so when I need some I'm getting them using Symphony Brass from NI_


----------



## ChoPraTs

Hello all!

I'm new in Spitfire BBC Symphonic Orchestra. It was the first prize of a contest that I won, so I could not be more happy!

I've already downloaded the library, the professional version, but I see that my version is 1.0.8 and I think some of you here have updated versions. I've been looking for the new Bass Flute, but I noticed it's not in my list of instruments. I can't switch to any Core or Discover versions either. Do you know if I need to do something else to get the latest update? Because it doesn't appear in my Spitfire Audio app.

Thank you!


----------



## Brasart

ChoPraTs said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I'm new in Spitfire BBC Symphonic Orchestra. It was the first prize of a contest that I won, so I could not be more happy!
> 
> I've already downloaded the library, the professional version, but I see that my version is 1.0.8 and I think some of you here have updated versions. I've been looking for the new Bass Flute, but I noticed it's not in my list of instruments. I can't switch to any Core or Discover versions either. Do you know if I need to do something else to get the latest update? Because it doesn't appear in my Spitfire Audio app.
> 
> Thank you!



Current version is 1.1.8 _(bass flute, library switching)_, the one before that was 1.0.8; I'd wait a couple of days to see if the update comes to your Spitfire Player (should do so), otherwise you can contact Spitfire's support directly from their website


----------



## Jett Hitt

lgmcben said:


> Can you elaborate? Just curious. I don't have it.


Sure. As you increase the dynamics of the Extended Legato, about halfway through, the tone suddenly shifts to a particularly brassy, indeed a cuivré, sound. It is obnoxious. Another member on the forum (I forget who) pointed out a second hidden legato horn that is much better. It does not show up by default, but it greatly improves the usefulness of the horn. Until I discovered it, I was just using horns from SSB and CSB. I still find it rather uninspired, however.


----------



## yiph2

Jett Hitt said:


> Sure. As you increase the dynamics of the Extended Legato, about halfway through, the tone suddenly shifts to a particularly brassy, indeed a cuivré, sound. It is obnoxious. Another member on the forum (I forget who) pointed out a second hidden legato horn that is much better. It does not show up by default, but it greatly improves the usefulness of the horn. Until I discovered it, I was just using horns from SSB and CSB. I still find it rather uninspired, however.


Curious where the hidden legato is...


----------



## Jett Hitt

yiph2 said:


> Curious where the hidden legato is...


You just have to click the pencil and select it. It is not really hidden. It is just not turned on by default. What makes it "hidden" is that there are two legatos: Extended Legato and Legato. It would have never occurred to me that the two would be that different and that the poorer one would be selected by default.


----------



## yiph2

Jett Hitt said:


> You just have to click the pencil and select it. It is not really hidden. It is just not turned on by default. What makes it "hidden" is that there are two legatos: Extended Legato and Legato. It would have never occurred to me that the two would be that different and that the poorer one would be selected by default.


Thanks! Does the normal legato have better fades?


----------



## Jett Hitt

Since the announcement last week I have been working with StaffPad, and though I downloaded the new files over the weekend, I didn't open my DAW until last night. That was a rather rude awakening. The file that I was working on (all BBCSO) would not play back correctly. Any time there is a series of repeated notes (same pitch), only the first will sound. It is like I have lost all round robins. (That's my best explanation.) Anyone else experience this? I have a ticket in to support, but no word.


----------



## Jett Hitt

yiph2 said:


> Thanks! Does the normal legato have better fades?


Yes


----------



## ChoPraTs

Brasart said:


> Current version is 1.1.8 _(bass flute, library switching)_, the one before that was 1.0.8; I'd wait a couple of days to see if the update comes to your Spitfire Player (should do so), otherwise you can contact Spitfire's support directly from their website



Thank you! Then, I'll keep waiting a few more days.


----------



## MdR

Jett Hitt said:


> Since the announcement last week I have been working with StaffPad, and though I downloaded the new files over the weekend, I didn't open my DAW until last night. That was a rather rude awakening. The file that I was working on (all BBCSO) would not play back correctly. Any time there is a series of repeated notes (same pitch), only the first will sound. It is like I have lost all round robins. (That's my best explanation.) Anyone else experience this? I have a ticket in to support, but no word.



I have exactly the same problem (BBCSO Pro/original version, Logic Pro). 
Only the first note is played if there are repeated notes with the same pitch. The problem started right after updating BBCSO (7th of May). 

Workaround is to make repeated notes slightly longer, so that they overlap with the following note. Then they will play correctly. 

I don't know if this has anything to do with the problem, but I also noticed that Spitfire app is now reporting BBCSO files incorrectly. For eg. size of BBCSO Strings only 1.8MB, Brass 181MB. 
On the disk I have almost 600 GB of BBCSO-data.

Other libraries (ie. Eric Whitacre Choir) are reporting sizes correctly. 

Spitfire app is showing different instrument groups, plug-in, BBCSO Core, BBCSO Discover, but no BBCSO Pro (I don't know if there should be).

Repairing the plugin didn't fix the problem. 

I also have a support ticket open for this, but haven't heard anything from them yet.


----------



## muk

Can anybody share a short piece with BBC SO that feauters the pianissimo range prominently? All the pieces I have heard that convinced me were in the range of mezzoforte to forte mainly. I would like to know how well the library does with quieter music.


----------



## ed buller

jaketanner said:


> I've heard a few walkthroughs on BBCSO and to me, the brass sounds fine. I have SStB and THAT brass is terrible, but BBC's sounds pretty good to me...so what exactly is it that people don't like?



to be clear. I LOVE all the brass except for the upper dynamics of the french Horns, both solo and a4. They are pretty lame and lack the bite and snap you'd expect. Indeed NO other Library I own has a top dynamic french horns that sound like this...including ALL the spitfires....

But in all other respects it's a creamy cake of delicious wonderment !

best

ed


----------



## jaketanner

Another question possibly for @paulthomson @christianhenson....as most of us that don't have the library are waiting for the Discover version to test drive it...how good of a representation of the BBCSO is Discover? Can we trust the overall sound of Discover to judge the library as a whole before we dive in? Minus the articulations and mic positions of course...purely on tone AND playability. Thanks.


----------



## redlester

MdR said:


> I have exactly the same problem (BBCSO Pro/original version, Logic Pro).
> Only the first note is played if there are repeated notes with the same pitch. The problem started right after updating BBCSO (7th of May).
> 
> Workaround is to make repeated notes slightly longer, so that they overlap with the following note. Then they will play correctly.
> 
> I don't know if this has anything to do with the problem, but I also noticed that Spitfire app is now reporting BBCSO files incorrectly. For eg. size of BBCSO Strings only 1.8MB, Brass 181MB.
> On the disk I have almost 600 GB of BBCSO-data.
> 
> Other libraries (ie. Eric Whitacre Choir) are reporting sizes correctly.
> 
> Spitfire app is showing different instrument groups, plug-in, BBCSO Core, BBCSO Discover, but no BBCSO Pro (I don't know if there should be).
> 
> Repairing the plugin didn't fix the problem.
> 
> I also have a support ticket open for this, but haven't heard anything from them yet.



@MdR @Jett Hitt 
This is happening for me also, with every instrument, every articulation. If you look at the keyboard in the plugin as it's playing the sequence, the first note remains held down, it is not being released.

Contrary to your solution MdR, I've managed to get over this in Logic by selecting the affected notes, right-clicking and using "Trim note to remove overlaps". This seems to sort it, although if you have a region which is repeating you need to manually trim the last note in the sequence otherwise the first note doesn't play on the next repeat.

I won't bombard Spitfire with the same question; can you update us on here when they respond?


----------



## muadgil

I'm quite tempted by that offer... I've been eyeing BBCSO for a moment, but I was stopped by the price an disk space. The Core version looks like a very cool deal. 
Just a little precision though, as I run my instruments on a MacBookPro with 16go of RAM. Is it possibe to unload some articulations from patches? In Kontakt, my workflow relies greatly on the Purge function...


----------



## Alex Fraser

muadgil said:


> I'm quite tempted by that offer... I've been eyeing BBCSO for a moment, but I was stopped by the price an disk space. The Core version looks like a very cool deal.
> Just a little precision though, as I run my instruments on a MacBookPro with 16go of RAM. Is it possibe to unload some articulations from patches? In Kontakt, my workflow relies greatly on the Purge function...


The articulation manager isn't included in Core but the full orchestra, all artics active runs in at 6-7gb in ram. So those who have it tell me!


----------



## redlester

muadgil said:


> I'm quite tempted by that offer... I've been eyeing BBCSO for a moment, but I was stopped by the price an disk space. The Core version looks like a very cool deal.
> Just a little precision though, as I run my instruments on a MacBookPro with 16go of RAM. Is it possibe to unload some articulations from patches? In Kontakt, my workflow relies greatly on the Purge function...



You can't unload artics in the Core version, only the Pro. However, if you're using Logic and if you use the "Multiple Instance" template from The Page they are separated out into longs and shorts in each instance, you can combine this with dynamic plugin loading to minimise RAM use.

See also my post here:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...change-bbcso-core-discover.92698/post-4554995


----------



## muk

SZK-Max said:


> It's a simple sketch. Hope it helps.
> Use Core mode.
> Cuivre patch(layered staccatissimo).



Thanks @SZK-Max. Sounds good to me. Unfortunately it isn't pianissimo (=quietest dynamic) at all, so not quite what I was looking for. Thanks all the same for sharing.


----------



## SZK-Max

@muk 
sorry. I was making a mistake


----------



## muk

SZK-Max said:


> @muk
> sorry. I was making a mistake



Hey, no problem!


----------



## muadgil

Alex Fraser said:


> The articulation manager isn't included in Core but the full orchestra, all artics active runs in at 6-7gb in ram. So those who have it tell me!



Thanks for the answer, that's quite disapointing... Strange choice, for a library that is designed to be a lighter version than the Pro version, meaning appealing for lighter setups I guess. 
Good news is that 349€ won't run out of my purse because of an impulse buy


----------



## Karma

muk said:


> Can anybody share a short piece with BBC SO that feauters the pianissimo range prominently? All the pieces I have heard that convinced me were in the range of mezzoforte to forte mainly. I would like to know how well the library does with quieter music.


Not sure if it's much help, but my demo uses a lot of the softer range in the opening and some other moments:


----------



## Jett Hitt

redlester said:


> @MdR @Jett Hitt
> This is happening for me also, with every instrument, every articulation. If you look at the keyboard in the plugin as it's playing the sequence, the first note remains held down, it is not being released.
> 
> Contrary to your solution MdR, I've managed to get over this in Logic by selecting the affected notes, right-clicking and using "Trim note to remove overlaps". This seems to sort it, although if you have a region which is repeating you need to manually trim the last note in the sequence otherwise the first note doesn't play on the next repeat.
> 
> I won't bombard Spitfire with the same question; can you update us on here when they respond?



@redlester @MdR I will immediately post here if I get a response. I see another thread complaining about support response times, so no doubt they've been inundated with tickets since last week's big announcement. I am rather miffed at myself over this mess. I don't know what I was thinking when I upgraded in the middle of a project. I don't even need Core or Discover and will likely never use either. Hopefully, @SpitfireSupport will come up with a fix because this affects every file I have ever done with BBCSO. In the meantime, I am not touching anything in these files.


----------



## redlester

Just a heads up for anyone using the Spitfire supplied Logic templates (Pro and Core, not sure about Discover), these have been recently updated again since yesterday. I spotted a duplicated track and a Bus routing error in the one issued last week and mentioned this to Jake Jackson yesterday in a Facebook conversation. He then responded that he'd found a couple more routing errors, so he immediately corrected these and got them re-uploaded, which I thought was incredibly responsive service. He replied that I'd caught him on a good day. 

I would suggest re-downloading if you want the most up to date versions.


----------



## muk

Karma said:


> Not sure if it's much help, but my demo uses a lot of the softer range in the opening and some other moments:




Thank you Luke. Such a beautiful track! Fantastically well done. It showcases the softer range beautifully, as does the beginning of the trailer track by Christian Henson. Tells me what I wanted to know.

I think it works well here because the writing and mockup are so good, even though it does not sound like pianissimo to me. The samples sound like a mezzoforte that is turned down in volume to my ears. They don't have the fragility that true pianissimo has. All the notes are perfectly clear and steady from the first milisecond, which is the case when playing comfortably in the piano or mezzoforte range. It's a pity that they didn't capture a really soft dynamic layer. I am sure the musicians of the BBC Symphony Orchestra would have rocked it.

Anyway, thanks again for chiming in Luke!


----------



## Karma

muk said:


> Thank you Luke. Such a beautiful track! Fantastically well done. It showcases the softer range beautifully, as does the beginning of the trailer track by Christian Henson. Tells me what I wanted to know.
> 
> I think it works well here because the writing and mockup are so good, even though it does not sound like pianissimo to me. The samples sound like a mezzoforte that is turned down in volume to my ears. They don't have the fragility that true pianissimo has. All the notes are perfectly clear and steady from the first milisecond, which is the case when playing comfortly in the piano or mezzoforte range. It's a pity that they didn't capture a really soft dynamic layer. I am sure the musicians of the BBC Symphony Orchestra would have rocked it.
> 
> Anyway, thanks again for chiming in Luke!


Thanks a lot! A good option (with Strings at least) is to treat Flautando as a super soft layer, if you balance it right it can be quite lovely


----------



## redlester

redlester said:


> Just a heads up for anyone using the Spitfire supplied Logic templates (Pro and Core, not sure about Discover), these have been recently updated again since yesterday. I spotted a duplicated track and a Bus routing error in the one issued last week and mentioned this to Jake Jackson yesterday in a Facebook conversation. He then responded that he'd found a couple more routing errors, so he immediately corrected these and got them re-uploaded, which I thought was incredibly responsive service. He replied that I'd caught him on a good day.
> 
> I would suggest re-downloading if you want the most up to date versions.



Speak of the devil!


----------



## dzilizzi

Just watched that. It seems that with an HD, you can break your computer with a full template. 

You also can't run the full template that they are using on 16GB of RAM. Christian says his is at 19+GB when fully loaded, though the system has put aside 20GB.


----------



## muk

Karma said:


> Thanks a lot! A good option (with Strings at least) is to treat Flautando as a super soft layer, if you balance it right it can be quite lovely



Thanks for the tipp Luke. That's actually a very good idea!


----------



## muadgil

Alex Fraser said:


> The articulation manager isn't included in Core but the full orchestra, all artics active runs in at 6-7gb in ram. So those who have it tell me!


I'm realizing I totally misread you! (bloody french guy I am...)
In fact the full Core Orchestra is only taking 7gb of RAM!? That would be great!
Can someone here confirm this, by opening the Spitfire BBCSO Core logic template? Thanks in advance


----------



## Alex Fraser

muadgil said:


> I'm realizing I totally misread you! (bloody french guy I am...)
> In fact the full Core Orchestra is only taking 7gb of RAM!? That would be great!
> Can someone here confirm this, by opening the Spitfire BBCSO Core logic template? Thanks in advance


No problem. I’m betting your English is far superior to my French!

The template has already been opened on behalf of the thread, a few pages back. 👍


----------



## redlester

muadgil said:


> I'm realizing I totally misread you! (bloody french guy I am...)
> In fact the full Core Orchestra is only taking 7gb of RAM!? That would be great!
> Can someone here confirm this, by opening the Spitfire BBCSO Core logic template? Thanks in advance



See my post on the previous page. Linked again here:




__





Spitfire Audio - "It's all about to change" - BBCSO Core / Discover


I fell into the Core... :);) There's no coreming back. Have fun!




vi-control.net


----------



## redlester

dzilizzi said:


> You also can't run the full template that they are using on 16GB of RAM.



You can open the template with 16GB, because it's saved with plugins unloaded. But you cannot switch every track on at once with 16GB. To be honest I wouldn't want to work like that with anything less than 64GB.

Even with Christian's 128GB iMac Pro it took 2 minutes to open the project with everything turned on. So no matter how much RAM I had I would still be using it with unused tracks turned off/unloaded.


----------



## dzilizzi

redlester said:


> You can open the template with 16GB, because it's saved with plugins unloaded. But you cannot switch every track on at once with 16GB. To be honest I wouldn't want to work like that with anything less than 64GB.
> 
> Even with Christian's 128GB iMac Pro it took 2 minutes to open the project with everything turned on. So no matter how much RAM I had I would still be using it with unused tracks turned off/unloaded.


The question is, do they come turned off, or do you have to turn them off after you can't load it?


----------



## muadgil

thanks Alex and Redlester, I should have read the whole thread I guess 
This library will run perfectly fine on a simple Macbook then. Great product!


----------



## redlester

dzilizzi said:


> The question is, do they come turned off, or do you have to turn them off after you can't load it?



They come turned off. I can open that template on my 16GB. It opens in a matter of seconds.


----------



## synkrotron

Have any other skinflints got Discovery for free yet?

Two weeks is turning out to be a very long time!

Must. Be. Patient...


----------



## Michel Simons

synkrotron said:


> Have any other skinflints got Discovery for free yet?
> 
> Two weeks is turning out to be a very long time!
> 
> Must. Be. Patient...



Still at least one week to go. You can do it.


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

Ended up picking this up because at the very least I felt the price tag was worth it just to get to work with professionally balanced template. I've never written music for an actual orchestra, so it seems like the next best way to get a good sense for how the format balances. I've been doing mockup transcriptions and have found that it's something that I struggle with in my own template.

I loaded the "BBCSO Template Pro1 Every Full v2.01" template this morning and I'm very impressed with the sound so far. I happened to get a TEC breath controller in the mail last night and by playing legato lines with breath for dynamics and modwheel for vibrato, I'm easily getting better results than ever before. It's also really, really fun to play.

One thing I experienced - when I opened the template, all the instances of REVerence informed me that they do not know where the Large Viennese Hall IR is. Guess I reinstall those with the Cubase installer? I'm on 10.5 pro so should have it yeah.







It looks like the busses that route to these reverb sends have the buss sends deactivated by default, so I'm curious how they are intended to be used.


----------



## Will Wilson

audiosprite said:


> Ended up picking this up because at the very least I felt the price tag was worth it just to get to work with professionally balanced template. I've never written music for an actual orchestra, so it seems like the next best way to get a good sense for how the format balances. I've been doing mockup transcriptions and have found that it's something that I struggle with in my own template.
> 
> I loaded the "BBCSO Template Pro1 Every Full v2.01" template this morning and I'm very impressed with the sound so far. I happened to get a TEC breath controller in the mail last night and by playing legato lines with breath for dynamics and modwheel for vibrato, I'm easily getting better results than ever before. It's also really, really fun to play.
> 
> One thing I experienced - when I opened the template, all the instances of REVerence informed me that they do not know where the Large Viennese Hall IR is. Guess I reinstall those with the Cubase installer? I'm on 10.5 pro so should have it yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far I haven't found any busses or instruments that actually route to these reverbs sends so I'm curious as to how these fit in exactly.



I'm not sure about the Cubase template specifically but I know the idea with the Logic Template is that ownership of the Library was the only pre-requisite and it used default/built in FX from your DAW, I would assume the Cubase template is similar in that regard and perhaps as you say you just opted to not install an optional preset or plugin?


----------



## Page Lyn Turner

Hi,
Just a quick question, is the BBC-Core blends nicely with the SF Studio Strings-core? thanks! tempting to buy the BBC even without the English horn..


----------



## synkrotron

Michel Simons said:


> Still at least one week to go. You can do it.



Biting me nails to the quick!

Damn them reminders every time I visit here


----------



## Jett Hitt

SitilkerX said:


> even without the English horn..


Beethoven would have been totally wrecked without the English horn, the bass clarinet, and the contrabassoon. I bet we'd have never heard of him.


----------



## composeravery

Jett Hitt said:


> Since the announcement last week I have been working with StaffPad, and though I downloaded the new files over the weekend, I didn't open my DAW until last night. That was a rather rude awakening. The file that I was working on (all BBCSO) would not play back correctly. Any time there is a series of repeated notes (same pitch), only the first will sound. It is like I have lost all round robins. (That's my best explanation.) Anyone else experience this? I have a ticket in to support, but no word.



YES!! Also experiencing this. I updated today (May 14th). Without the ability to playback repeated notes (at their appropriate beat length) effectively makes the plugin useless for now. Also have ticket into support.


----------



## al_net77

Jett Hitt said:


> Since the announcement last week I have been working with StaffPad, and though I downloaded the new files over the weekend, I didn't open my DAW until last night. That was a rather rude awakening. The file that I was working on (all BBCSO) would not play back correctly. Any time there is a series of repeated notes (same pitch), only the first will sound. It is like I have lost all round robins. (That's my best explanation.) Anyone else experience this? I have a ticket in to support, but no word.



Try to shorten the notes. I resolved int that way, letting a small time beetween the notes...


----------



## Jett Hitt

al_net77 said:


> Try to shorten the notes. I resolved int that way, letting a small time beetween the notes...


Well sure, that's a quick fix. We've established that. But should I really have to go through every project I've done with BBCSO and rework them? And will I have to do that again the next time Spitfire updates the plugin?


----------



## al_net77

Jett Hitt said:


> Well sure, that's a quick fix. We've established that. But should I really have to go through every project I've done with BBCSO and rework them? And will I have to do that again the next time Spitfire updates the plugin?



Definitively, no.


----------



## gussunkri

"It's all about to change".

I finally get it. They were talking about Christian's hair!


----------



## Laptoprabbit

Jett Hitt said:


> Well sure, that's a quick fix. We've established that. But should I really have to go through every project I've done with BBCSO and rework them? And will I have to do that again the next time Spitfire updates the plugin?


Glad you guys brought this up I thought I was going crazy when notes went missing...


----------



## redlester

Jett Hitt said:


> Well sure, that's a quick fix. We've established that. But should I really have to go through every project I've done with BBCSO and rework them? And will I have to do that again the next time Spitfire updates the plugin?



I take it you’ve heard nothing back regarding the support ticket you opened on this? Was using it yesterday and it’s particularly annoying with percussion instruments when you may want a repeated series of the same note. They need to fix this urgently.


----------



## Jett Hitt

redlester said:


> I take it you’ve heard nothing back regarding the support ticket you opened on this? Was using it yesterday and it’s particularly annoying with percussion instruments when you may want a repeated series of the same note. They need to fix this urgently.


Not a word. A few others have started to chime in with the same problem. So you know it’s a known issue to SA. I tagged @SpitfireSupport in one of these posts, and it’d be a pretty safe wager that SA reads everything in this thread. Though I can imagine they are overrun with Discover and Core tickets, you would hope that something affecting our newly monikered “Pro” would take precedence.


----------



## JPQ

this is this discover orcehstra waste of money getting it addinational timbres if vsl special edition extended. i woerry only velocty layer but at least their audio demos i feel is still canbe useful. at least tells if get something how their products sounds in my hands.


----------



## redlester

Jett Hitt said:


> Not a word. A few others have started to chime in with the same problem. So you know it’s a known issue to SA. I tagged @SpitfireSupport in one of these posts, and it’d be a pretty safe wager that SA reads everything in this thread. Though I can imagine they are overrun with Discover and Core tickets, you would hope that something affecting our newly monikered “Pro” would take precedence.



Hopefully soon. I have not raised another ticket as I know they are aware of the problem so don't want to create any more traffic for them. No doubt it will take another point-something release of the plugin to sort it out.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know how you make use of the NKS support in BBCSO?

I purchased BBCSO Pro yesterday and though I have emailed support about this, it has gone support hours in the UK now... so unlikely to hear anything until Monday now


----------



## muziksculp

Do you think the BBCSO Pro with some Reverb treatment can emulate the sound of Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra ?


----------



## Dr.Quest

Here is a nice mock up of the Next gen theme using Discover by Jennifer Galatis.


----------



## Dr.Quest

And another Ravel piece also just using Discover by Jennifer Galatis.


----------



## SupremeFist

Dr.Quest said:


> Here is a nice mock up of the Next gen theme using Discover by Jennifer Galatis.



That sounds better than it has any right to. (Is Core this wet?)


----------



## Dr.Quest

SupremeFist said:


> That sounds better than it has any right to. (Is Core this wet?)


I’m not sure. They both have just the one mic position I think.


----------



## muk

Does anybody know what the included reverb in the Spitfire BBC SO app is? Is it convolution or algorithmic? Couldn't find anything about it in the manual. It only reads that with the reverb button you can add reverb...


----------



## Zedcars

muk said:


> Does anybody know what the included reverb in the Spitfire BBC SO app is? Is it convolution or algorithmic? Couldn't find anything about it in the manual. It only reads that with the reverb button you can add reverb...


My presumption is that it is convolution based on the Maida Vale IR (BBCSO_MV1_IR1) found in the samples folder. I could be wrong of course, but how else would the IR be used? Maybe in the background somehow. Seems more likely it’s what the front facing reverb dial controls.


----------



## muk

Zedcars said:


> My presumption is that it is convolution based on the Maida Vale IR (BBCSO_MV1_IR1) found in the samples folder. I could be wrong of course, but how else would the IR be used? Maybe in the background somehow. Seems more likely it’s what the front facing reverb dial controls.



Thanks Darren! Makes sense. With that naming it most probably is convolution then.


----------



## yiph2

Zedcars said:


> My presumption is that it is convolution based on the Maida Vale IR (BBCSO_MV1_IR1) found in the samples folder. I could be wrong of course, but how else would the IR be used? Maybe in the background somehow. Seems more likely it’s what the front facing reverb dial controls.


So which level of reverb is the normal one? (I mean the recordings only with the room sound)


----------



## Zedcars

yiph2 said:


> So which level of reverb is the normal one? (I mean the recordings only with the room sound)


Good question. Maybe experiment with the close mics only to see what sounds most natural? Anything past 12 o’clock sounded wrong to me, but I haven’t used the reverb in a while. I found the sound was better without it.


----------



## redlester

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Slightly off topic, but does anyone know how you make use of the NKS support in BBCSO?
> 
> I purchased BBCSO Pro yesterday and though I have emailed support about this, it has gone support hours in the UK now... so unlikely to hear anything until Monday now



The NKS works for me exactly as any other NKS instrument. BBC SO should show up in the browser of Komplete Kontrol or Maschine.

I previously had an issue a few months ago, with both BBC SO and HZ Strings not showing in Komplete Kontrol, but it was cleared up by a Komplete Kontrol update. Check if you have the latest version of Komplete Kontrol installed.


----------



## muziksculp

Are there any audio demos of *BBCSO Core* that impressed you ? 

I haven't found any yet.


----------



## Zedcars

Comparison between Core and Pro:

Excerpt 2 from my symphonic piece War Child. I made zero alterations. Just loaded my project which I made in Pro and switched over to Core to produce that mix.

Core: Seems to have faired pretty well. No major standout problems that I can tell, but seems to have a bit less depth compared to Pro:





Pro: For some reason Pro is slightly louder here. Might be due to additional instruments included in Pro perhaps?:





Hi res downloads:

24-bit 48kHz CORE:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xz8xjgmeiv5dzcv/War%20Child%20-%20Mvt1%20-%20Excerpt%202%20-%20BBCSO%20Core%20-%20Demo%2036.wav?dl=0
24-bit 48kHz PRO:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvwuw2qfzrdf2tg/War%20Child%20-%20Mvt1%20-%20Excerpt%202%20-%20BBCSO%20Pro%20-%20Demo%2036.wav?dl=0


----------



## CT

Dr.Quest said:


> And another Ravel piece also just using Discover by Jennifer Galatis.




This is pretty damn remarkable for what it is.


----------



## Dr.Quest

miket said:


> This is pretty damn remarkable for what it is.


It took her 5 hours to put that together. Quite remarkable for a free orchestra.


----------



## monsieurmickey

Hi,

Here is a (very) quick test:


----------



## batonruse

Thanks so much for posting this comparison and it was great to revisit your composition and enjoy it all pver again ......twice! It does seem that, in your hands, the Core version can deliver! You mentioned additional instruments in the Pro version (presumably lower brass/woods). Were any used in your original version which were either omitted or automatically replaced with alternatives when switching to Core?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvwuw2qfzrdf2tg/War%20Child%20-%20Mvt1%20-%20Excerpt%202%20-%20BBCSO%20Pro%20-%20Demo%2036.wav?dl=0[/QUOTE]


----------



## Zedcars

batonruse said:


> Thanks so much for posting this comparison and it was great to revisit your composition and enjoy it all pver again ......twice! It does seem that, in your hands, the Core version can deliver! You mentioned additional instruments in the Pro version (presumably lower brass/woods). Were any used in your original version which were either omitted or automatically replaced with alternatives when switching to Core?
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvwuw2qfzrdf2tg/War%20Child%20-%20Mvt1%20-%20Excerpt%202%20-%20BBCSO%20Pro%20-%20Demo%2036.wav?dl=0



Thank you. That's kind of you to say. I can't really take any credit for any suitability to adaptability to get the best from Core because all I did was switch the mode over. Literally nothing else. Credit should go to Spitfire for that feet. I may try to use Discover, but will probably write something new.

I'll go in and have a proper look to answer your last question.


----------



## Dan

Here is BBCSO Core with some Brahms:



(based on a midi file by David Siu)


----------



## vdk-john

SupremeFist said:


> That sounds better than it has any right to. (Is Core this wet?)



Core isn't that wet. Discover has the built-in reverb enabled (and it's a bit too much for my taste). Core and Pro are not that wet with mix 1


----------



## Jett Hitt

@MdR @redlester 

I got the following reply from SF techsupport today:

Thank you for getting in touch, this issue is something we have logged with our engineers who are investigating the issue urgently. In the meantime the immediate workaround is to adjust note length as you mention, however I have this case flagged so that I can update you promptly as soon as a fix is made available.


----------



## redlester

Jett Hitt said:


> @MdR @redlester
> 
> I got the following reply from SF techsupport today:
> 
> Thank you for getting in touch, this issue is something we have logged with our engineers who are investigating the issue urgently. In the meantime the immediate workaround is to adjust note length as you mention, however I have this case flagged so that I can update you promptly as soon as a fix is made available.



Thanks for that. I guess we will know when they’ve fixed it as another update will appear in the app.


----------



## muziksculp

Jett Hitt said:


> @MdR @redlester
> 
> I got the following reply from SF techsupport today:
> 
> Thank you for getting in touch, this issue is something we have logged with our engineers who are investigating the issue urgently. In the meantime the immediate workaround is to adjust note length as you mention, however I have this case flagged so that I can update you promptly as soon as a fix is made available.



Is this an issue with BBCSO and a specific DAW ? or Platform ? or ... ?


----------



## Laptoprabbit

muziksculp said:


> Is this an issue with BBCSO and a specific DAW ? or Platform ? or ... ?


I experienced it with Reaper on Windows but it's likely more general given the number of people with issues?


----------



## muziksculp

Laptoprabbit said:


> I experienced it with Reaper on Windows but it's likely more general given the number of people with issues?



Interesting, Is this issue encountered in the Pro version only, or also with the Core version ? 

I'm on Windows 10, Studio One Pro 4, and plan to purchase the Core version before May 31st. So just wanted to check if this will be an issue for me if I buy the Core version. 

Thanks.


----------



## Jett Hitt

muziksculp said:


> Interesting, Is this issue encountered in the Pro version only, or also with the Core version ?
> 
> I'm on Windows 10, Studio One Pro 4, and plan to purchase the Core version before May 31st. So just wanted to check if this will be an issue for me if I buy the Core version.
> 
> Thanks.


I can't tell you whether this affects Core as well, but I can't imagine that it wouldn't. I feel fairly comfortable saying that I wouldn't let this keep me from buying Core during the discounted period. There's no way Spitfire doesn't fix this. It is too big of an issue affecting a Pro product, and the problem seems to exist across multiple platforms. It may take them a while, but they will fix it.


----------



## muziksculp

Jett Hitt said:


> I can't tell you whether this affects Core as well, but I can't imagine that it wouldn't. I feel fairly comfortable saying that I wouldn't let this keep me from buying Core during the discounted period. There's no way Spitfire doesn't fix this. It is too big of an issue affecting a Pro product, and the problem seems to exist across multiple platforms. It may take them a while, but they will fix it.



I read something about not being able to trigger the same note repeatedly, is that the issue ? can you elaborate a bit on what exactly is the issue ? 

Thanks.


----------



## Jett Hitt

muziksculp said:


> I read something about not being able to trigger the same note repeatedly, is that the issue ? can you elaborate a bit on what exactly is the issue ?
> 
> Thanks.


Others can speak about their experience. For me, the score I was working on had this problem. Any place a note repeated, all the repeated notes after the initial note failed to sound. It can be overcome by adjusting the ends of the notes slightly, but it affects all of my past projects as well.


----------



## muziksculp

Jett Hitt said:


> Others can speak about their experience. For me, the score I was working on had this problem. Any place a note repeated, all the repeated notes after the initial note failed to sound. It can be overcome by adjusting the ends of the notes slightly, but it affects all of my past projects as well.



Interesting, so repeated 16th, or 32nd notes ? or are they more like repeated 1/8th notes or longer ?

You mention adjusting the end of the notes fixes the issue, by making them longer or shorter ?

this issue happens with all the instruments ? or just specific ones ? what about other libraries ? 

Maybe it's a glitch with the Spitfire Player that needs to be fixed, hopefully (ASAP). It would be helpful if other users can confirm they are experiencing this as well, with both Core and Pro, on Mac / PC.


----------



## muk

Some of the instruments in BBC SO have an extended legato patch. Most don't. Does anybody know if the other instruments are supposed to get an extended legato patch as well?


----------



## Scamper

Zedcars said:


> Comparison between Core and Pro:


Always good to have more direct comparisons. I guess the Pro version is also using Mix 1? I'd be interested in comparisons between Mix 1 in Core and other mic mixes like Mix 2 or Mix 1 + Spill Mics. The last one was used for Admiral Benbow, wasn't it?


----------



## Andrew66

Scamper said:


> Always good to have more direct comparisons. I guess the Pro version is also using Mix 1? I'd be interested in comparisons between Mix 1 in Core and other mic mixes like Mix 2 or Mix 1 + Spill Mics. The last one was used for Admiral Benbow, wasn't it?





muziksculp said:


> Interesting, so repeated 16th, or 32nd notes ? or are they more like repeated 1/8th notes or longer ?
> 
> You mention adjusting the end of the notes fixes the issue, by making them longer or shorter ?
> 
> this issue happens with all the instruments ? or just specific ones ? what about other libraries ?
> 
> Maybe it's a glitch with the Spitfire Player that needs to be fixed, hopefully (ASAP). It would be helpful if other users can confirm they are experiencing this as well, with both Core and Pro, on Mac / PC.


I have Core running in Studio One version 4. I have the same issue - it has happened on eighth notes and sixteenth notes. I shorten the proceeding note a little and that takes care of the issue.


----------



## jbuhler

muk said:


> Some of the instruments in BBC SO have an extended legato patch. Most don't. Does anybody know if the other instruments are supposed to get an extended legato patch as well?


Back when it was released I remember someone saying the special performance legato patches were added to the release because Paul wanted them and that the plans were to add them for all instruments. But I mean who knows? We’re still waiting for the bass legato for the solo strings (the samples appear to be there) and how long have we been waiting for the trombone legato for SSO?


----------



## jon wayne

Andrew66 said:


> I have Core running in Studio One version 4. I have the same issue - it has happened on eighth notes and sixteenth notes. I shorten the proceeding note a little and that takes care of the issue.


A little off topic, but I am using S1 templates for Discover and Core. For some reason, Core is crashing S1, unless I open Discover template first. Are you experiencing any issue like this?


----------



## muziksculp

Andrew66 said:


> I have Core running in Studio One version 4. I have the same issue - it has happened on eighth notes and sixteenth notes. I shorten the proceeding note a little and that takes care of the issue.



I'm guessing that Spitfire knows about this issue, and is working on a fix via an update soon.


----------



## muk

jbuhler said:


> Back when it was released I remember someone saying the special performance legato patches were added to the release because Paul wanted them and that the plans were to add them for all instruments. But I mean who knows? We’re still waiting for the bass legato for the solo strings (the samples appear to be there) and how long have we been waiting for the trombone legato for SSO?



Thanks, good to know. Not holding my breath then.


----------



## Andrew66

jon wayne said:


> A little off topic, but I am using S1 templates for Discover and Core. For some reason, Core is crashing S1, unless I open Discover template first. Are you experiencing any issue like this?


No I have not had any issues like that. S1 has been rock solid for me


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Did everyone receieve BBO Discover after 14 days with the survey? For me it's 16 days later now. 
(Maybe I should've left out Daniel James from my favorite YouTubers hahaha  )


----------



## yiph2

DarkestShadow said:


> Did everyone receieve BBO Discover after 14 days with the survey? For me it's 16 days later now.
> (Maybe I should've left out Daniel James from my favorite YouTubers hahaha  )


It hasn't been 14 days until today from release though...


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

yiph2 said:


> It hasn't been 14 days until today from release though...


I only now realized it hahah.. I checked a conversation about it and took the 5th for the day of the month.


----------



## synkrotron

I had an e-mail yesterday telling me that I'd be getting another e-mail today with instructions for the free download. So, it's on its way


----------



## Eptesicus

I must say, massive credit to Spitfire for giving this for free for anyone who fills out that survey.

I thought it would only be free for educational establishments or something.


----------



## synkrotron

Eptesicus said:


> I must say, massive credit to Spitfire for giving this for free for anyone who fills out that survey.
> 
> I thought it would only be free for educational establishments or something.



I agree.

I haven't got the e-mail yet, though. I'm a Glass Fully Empty kind of guy so I will believe it when I get the e-mail with the download instructions.


----------



## synkrotron

Okay, got the e-mail.

When you next open the Spitfire Audio application it is there waiting to be downloaded.

I have gone through that process but I need to take time out to go make, and then eat tea.

I will report back on my thoughts when I have had time to play...


----------



## M Abela

Just got the email and downloaded Discover. Really like it: low RAM footprint and cohesive sound across the board. Thank you, Spitfire!


----------



## Michel Simons

synkrotron said:


> I have gone through that process but I need to take time out to go make, and then eat tea.



That most be some really strong tea. 

I got the email that is saying that I am going to get an email tomorrow.


----------



## synkrotron

Michel Simons said:


> That most be some really strong tea.



Not the drink, tea, the meal haha!

It was very nice... Pasta and pan fried salmon (farmed, unfortunately).


----------



## Laptoprabbit

jbuhler said:


> Back when it was released I remember someone saying the special performance legato patches were added to the release because Paul wanted them and that the plans were to add them for all instruments. But I mean who knows? We’re still waiting for the bass legato for the solo strings (the samples appear to be there) and how long have we been waiting for the trombone legato for SSO?



Alright so, so sounds like we're waiting on

bass leader legato
more performance patches
piano
bass flute legato?


----------



## Michel Simons

synkrotron said:


> Not the drink, tea, the meal haha!
> 
> It was very nice... Pasta and pan fried salmon (farmed, unfortunately).



Now I finally understand what is actually meant with afternoon tea. I seriously thought that it was mainly about drinking tea (and eating scones of course). Would you believe that I have English friends? Probably not.


----------



## CatOrchestra

Michel Simons said:


> Now I finally understand what is actually meant with afternoon tea. I seriously thought that it was mainly about drinking tea (and eating scones of course). Would you believe that I have English friends? Probably not.


At the risk of going totally off-topic...we could bring up Devonian or Cornish method for scones : ) or should you put the milk in first or should you pour in the hot tea first ?


----------



## CT

Laptoprabbit said:


> bass leader legato



I think he was talking about Spitfire Solo Strings. The BBCSO bass leader has legato.


----------



## GingerMaestro

Michel Simons said:


> Now I finally understand what is actually meant with afternoon tea. I seriously thought that it was mainly about drinking tea (and eating scones of course). Would you believe that I have English friends? Probably not.


Not quite..Americans get very confused with the word tea..Let me try to explain..
1) The tea you drink (Tetley, PG Tips,Yorkshire (Builders Tea), Earl Grey/Gray, English Breakfast (posh people)
2) Herbal Tea (Pronounced with an "H") Traditionally Hippy type people drink this, although has become more mainstream of late...Served with Lemon or Honey sometimes..
3)Tea..evening meal served in the 5-7 Hour (Probably working to middle class people)
4) Dinner, eating out or posh people
5) Supper an evening meal, don't know much about this as we never call it that..probably more posh people
6) Afternoon Tea..Very Very Posh people or Royalty..Probably Earl Gray tea or even fancier..Served with dainty sandwiches, cakes, scones, jam and cream (Clotted in Devon and Cornwall only)
7) Pudding (or posh people call it desert) Angel Delight, Spotted Dick, Jam Roly Poly, Sticky Toffee pudding, some of these often served with Birds Custard.. or cream (Single or double, not the squirty kind)

I could go on !


----------



## Zedcars

Scamper said:


> Always good to have more direct comparisons. I guess the Pro version is also using Mix 1?


Yes. When I first got the library I was using Mix 2 mostly. But I think after switching to Mix 1 and using it for a while I prefer it as the sound is more natural.



> I'd be interested in comparisons between Mix 1 in Core and other mic mixes like Mix 2 or Mix 1 + Spill Mics. The last one was used for Admiral Benbow, wasn't it?


I'm not sure, but it sounds like that is the case.


----------



## CT

I don't think Andy's used the spills actually. It's documented somewhere; as I remember it was Mix 1 with some Balcony on the flute as well... think that was all?

Wait, just looked and maybe he did use them. Ignore me at all costs.


----------



## Scamper

For those, who have used BBCSO Pro/Core so far, what do you think about the consistency and balance of the instruments and sections?

I've played around with Core a bit and while the sound of everything playing together is quite nice, there seem to be still some weaknesses.
Some articulations seem quite a bit louder, than they should be. For example, the string shorts and pizzicatos are louder than the sustains. The woodwinds overall seem a bit quiet and the brass shorts a bit as well. Other instruments like percussion have varying degrees of loudness for the same velocity for different notes.
I'm not super experienced with orchestral balance, but some of it at least doesn't seem right.


----------



## syrinx

Scamper said:


> For those, who have used BBCSO Pro/Core so far, what do you think about the consistency and balance of the instruments and sections?
> 
> I've played around with Core a bit and while the sound of everything playing together is quite nice, there seem to be still some weaknesses.
> Some articulations seem quite a bit louder, than they should be. For example, the string shorts and pizzicatos are louder than the sustains. The woodwinds overall seem a bit quiet and the brass shorts a bit as well. Other instruments like percussion have varying degrees of loudness for the same velocity for different notes.
> I'm not super experienced with orchestral balance, but some of it at least doesn't seem right.



I’m working on a mockup of a Star Wars excerpt to try out BBCSO Core. So far it generally feels like a ”budget” library, which it is, so you get what you pay for. I’d say it’s comparable with VSL Synchron Special Edition, with the big difference that BBCSO Core takes up much less space on the drive.

Regarding the balance I noticed you have to massage the levels a bit to find a believable balance. So it’s not really out-of-the-box perfect (but then again nothing is, not counting NotePerformer, hehe). But just some quick tweaking is enough to get an acceptable balance.

I wanted it for sketching on a laptop with limited disk space and for that it’s really nice.
It’s not a library you’ll be ecstatic about (if you have others), but it won’t disappoint either. The sound you get for the small disk space is really great. At least it’s good enough to make me think of upgrading to the full version.


----------



## Michel Simons

GingerMaestro said:


> Not quite..Americans get very confused with the word tea..Let me try to explain..
> 1) The tea you drink (Tetley, PG Tips,Yorkshire (Builders Tea), Earl Grey/Gray, English Breakfast (posh people)
> 2) Herbal Tea (Pronounced with an "H") Traditionally Hippy type people drink this, although has become more mainstream of late...Served with Lemon or Honey sometimes..
> 3)Tea..evening meal served in the 5-7 Hour (Probably working to middle class people)
> 4) Dinner, eating out or posh people
> 5) Supper an evening meal, don't know much about this as we never call it that..probably more posh people
> 6) Afternoon Tea..Very Very Posh people or Royalty..Probably Earl Gray tea or even fancier..Served with dainty sandwiches, cakes, scones, jam and cream (Clotted in Devon and Cornwall only)
> 7) Pudding (or posh people call it desert) Angel Delight, Spotted Dick, Jam Roly Poly, Sticky Toffee pudding, some of these often served with Birds Custard.. or cream (Single or double, not the squirty kind)
> 
> I could go on !



I am not American, btw.

Clotted cream. A gift from heaven.
Marmite. Comes straight out of Satan's arse.

Anyway, what was the topic about again?


----------



## CatOrchestra

Have you guys had any luck with student discounts if you are not a student of/within music?


----------



## Michel Simons

CatOrchestra said:


> Have you guys had any luck with student discounts if you are not a student of/within music?



My guess would be that you somehow have to prove that you are a student (e.g. copy of a student card).


----------



## CatOrchestra

Michel Simons said:


> My guess would be that you somehow have to prove that you are a student (e.g. copy of a student card).


I tried that but got an email stating my request for an educational discount has been declined. I have emailed their support to see what else I can I send as proof.


----------



## Michel Simons

CatOrchestra said:


> I tried that but got an email stating my request for an educational discount has been declined. I have emailed their support to see what else I can I send as proof.



I guess you have seen this page?


----------



## CatOrchestra

Michel Simons said:


> I guess you have seen this page?


Thank you, I did see that page. But I did not read the ending about "If you only receive an automated rejection email that is addressed as “Dear Customer” rather than your first name this means that your name is not visible on your account, therefore your application could not be processed and was automatically rejected. In this case please edit your account to include your name and apply again, or get in touch with us at spitfireaudio.com/support and we will be happy to do this for you."

I will fix that now.


----------



## jonathanwright

It's worth pointing out for those of us that use disabled templates in Logic/Cubase, it appears that the Spitfire player has a substantially smaller footprint.

For example, my Kontakt based disabled template is around 500MB in file size. My BBC SO template of a similar track count is only 12MB.


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

Has anyone moved their files to a different directory yet? What's the procedure for doing so?


----------



## easyrider

If anyone want to have a blast in "standalone" use unify 

Plugin Guru have made patch for Discover


----------



## John R Wilson

easyrider said:


> If anyone want to have a blast in "standalone" use unify
> 
> Plugin Guru have made patch for Discover





Unify is a brilliant plugin!! I just recently got it and started making some multi ensemble patches for the BBCSO, it works really well with it.


----------



## PaulieDC

audiosprite said:


> Has anyone moved their files to a different directory yet? What's the procedure for doing so?


Once you move your libraries, open the Spitfire app and click Repair, and that will allow you to point to the new location. Next to Repair there's also the gear icon with a Locate option, that should work too.


----------



## JeffP06

Hello

Still no way to purge unused articulations, notes...?


----------



## Jett Hitt

JeffP06 said:


> Hello
> 
> Still no way to purge unused articulations, notes...?


You have always been able to purge unused articulations.


----------



## mybadmemory

Jett Hitt said:


> You have always been able to purge unused articulations.



Not in Core / Discover. Will be added in next update though!


----------



## Jett Hitt

mybadmemory said:


> Not in Core / Discover. Will be added in next update though!


Oh horsefeathers, sorry, I thought I was in the other BBCSO thread. But really? They cut the purge function out of Core? Wow, what an incredibly shortsighted decision to make about a library that is already a notorious resource hog and one that is trapped in a player that doesn't have a purge function. But you say that they are adding it back in? Perhaps they have seen the error of their ways.


----------



## Nuno

Jett Hitt said:


> Oh horsefeathers, sorry, I thought I was in the other BBCSO thread. But really? They cut the purge function out of Core? Wow, what an incredibly shortsighted decision to make about a library that is already a notorious resource hog and one that is trapped in a player that doesn't have a purge function. But you say that they are adding it back in? Perhaps they have seen the error of their ways.



I was pretty disappointed to find out after buying the core version that there is no purge function, this is very limiting when composing on a laptop. I hope Spitifire add it back in.


----------



## redlester

Nuno said:


> I was pretty disappointed to find out after buying the core version that there is no purge function, this is very limiting when composing on a laptop. I hope Spitifire add it back in.



There was an error in the manual as I understand it, which claimed that Core did have the articulation editor function. Looks like that has now been updated thankfully. Even though it's not the Pro, it's still a £400 library when not on sale, so you would think it should be included. A partial workaround is to use one of the Multiple Instance templates they have provided on The Page, which do split the articulations out to longs and shorts for each instrument.


----------



## mybadmemory

Christian said yesterday in a YouTube comment that he requested it to be put back in the next update!


----------



## Alex Fraser

Nuno said:


> I was pretty disappointed to find out after buying the core version that there is no purge function, this is very limiting when composing on a laptop. I hope Spitifire add it back in.


CH confirmed it’s going to be added back in. Edit: Never mind. 😅


----------



## Nuno

redlester said:


> There was an error in the manual as I understand it, which claimed that Core did have the articulation editor function. Looks like that has now been updated thankfully. Even though it's not the Pro, it's still a £400 library when not on sale, so you would think it should be included. A partial workaround is to use one of the Multiple Instance templates they have provided on The Page, which do split the articulations out to longs and shorts for each instrument.


 
I tried to use one of these templates but cubase won t load any bbcso instance automatically.


----------



## styledelk

Nuno said:


> I tried to use one of these templates but cubase won t load any bbcso instance automatically.



One issue I noticed in the the Ableton Live template is that it's built for AU instances of BBCSO. So the VST2/3 instances won't load (probably because there's no way to set a fallback between platforms). So if you're on Windows, you'd have to rebuild the instruments on the template.
Might be the same on Cubase.


----------



## Nuno

styledelk said:


> One issue I noticed in the the Ableton Live template is that it's built for AU instances of BBCSO. So the VST2/3 instances won't load (probably because there's no way to set a fallback between platforms). So if you're on Windows, you'd have to rebuild the instruments on the template.
> Might be the same on Cubase.



No, it was my fault, didn't pay enough attention  
Tracks are disabled by default, i just need to enabled them. It works great


----------



## JeffP06

Jett Hitt said:


> You have always been able to purge unused articulations.


Hi
strange because it seems that, in BBC Core, it will be added in a future update but not actually.

(Henson: "Paul and I have requested they switch this function on in core. Next update!")


----------



## Onuj1234

JeffP06 said:


> (Henson: "Paul and I have requested they switch this function on in core. Next update!")


Can anyone give me a link to this comment/video?


----------



## mybadmemory

Onuj1234 said:


> Can anyone give me a link to this comment/video?


----------



## redlester

styledelk said:


> One issue I noticed in the the Ableton Live template is that it's built for AU instances of BBCSO. So the VST2/3 instances won't load (probably because there's no way to set a fallback between platforms). So if you're on Windows, you'd have to rebuild the instruments on the template.
> Might be the same on Cubase.



You wouldn't be able to rebuild it for the Multi Instance Core template, because they are split out to shorts and longs, which at present (until the update) can't be done by the user.


----------



## Ishouldwritemore

I just got Core and decided to program a bit of Anakin's Theme. Everything is BBCSO Core except for the English Horn and Contra Bassoon (EWHO). Hope this is helpful for those still on the fence. I did minimal processing, but threw a Spaces verb on top.


----------



## mybadmemory

Ishouldwritemore said:


> I just got Core and decided to program a bit of Anakin's Theme. Everything is BBCSO Core except for the English Horn and Contra Bassoon (EWHO). Hope this is helpful for those still on the fence. I did minimal processing, but threw a Spaces verb on top.



sounds absolutely lovely! <3


----------



## Levon

Ishouldwritemore said:


> I just got Core and decided to program a bit of Anakin's Theme. Everything is BBCSO Core except for the English Horn and Contra Bassoon (EWHO). Hope this is helpful for those still on the fence. I did minimal processing, but threw a Spaces verb on top.


Sounds great!


----------



## dzilizzi

Ishouldwritemore said:


> I just got Core and decided to program a bit of Anakin's Theme. Everything is BBCSO Core except for the English Horn and Contra Bassoon (EWHO). Hope this is helpful for those still on the fence. I did minimal processing, but threw a Spaces verb on top.


Wow, that was just with Core? This sounds really good. Doesn't sound limited at all.


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

for anyone using bbcso, i'm curious how you are using the marcato patches. maybe it's because i'm using the template with individual articulation patches but the bbcso marcatos don't legato like css's do. they're at a fixed length and stack like the longs or tenuto patches. so i'm not sure how to actually use them.

in fact the only articulations i've found useful for any instrument are legato and staccatisimo. and specific techniques like trills etc


----------



## gussunkri

audiosprite said:


> for anyone using bbcso, i'm curious how you are using the marcato patches. maybe it's because i'm using the template with individual articulation patches but the bbcso marcatos don't legato like css's do. they're at a fixed length and stack like the longs or tenuto patches. so i'm not sure how to actually use them.
> 
> in fact the only articulations i've found useful for any instrument are legato and staccatisimo. and specific techniques like trills etc


About the fixed length: you just need to change the patches to “timed” releases in the settings. Post update, this is the default setting, as it ought to have been from the start, but you might have a template made before the update so you need to change them manually or reopen the patches.

Spitfire support, I am doing your job for free. You don’t need to pay me, I will be generous and accept the SSO as compensation... No? Ok, it was worth a shot.


----------



## Scamper

Ishouldwritemore said:


> I just got Core and decided to program a bit of Anakin's Theme. Everything is BBCSO Core except for the English Horn and Contra Bassoon (EWHO). Hope this is helpful for those still on the fence. I did minimal processing, but threw a Spaces verb on top.



That's great, I love this theme and the sound of BBCSO is fantastic here. On the other hand, it shows, that the articulations are a bit static compared to other libraries with smoother legatos and more variety.


----------



## Ishouldwritemore

Scamper said:


> That's great, I love this theme and the sound of BBCSO is fantastic here. On the other hand, it shows, that the articulations are a bit static compared to other libraries with smoother legatos and more variety.



I could have spent more time really programming the articulations, but I was most curious to see how it would sound without much work. I was pleased with the cohesiveness of the sound as a whole, but there are certainly many places where I could have improved my programming/performance.


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

gussunkri said:


> About the fixed length: you just need to change the patches to “timed” releases in the settings. Post update, this is the default setting, as it ought to have been from the start, but you might have a template made before the update so you need to change them manually or reopen the patches.
> 
> Spitfire support, I am doing your job for free. You don’t need to pay me, I will be generous and accept the SSO as compensation... No? Ok, it was worth a shot.









i guess this option isn't available for marcatos? meaning they're not 'long' patches?


----------



## ShoeHorn

Eptesicus said:


> I must say, massive credit to Spitfire for giving this for free for anyone who fills out that survey.
> 
> I thought it would only be free for educational establishments or something.



It's a brilliant marketing move. You get a small taste of the full product. Then you want the full product. Then you buy the full product when it goes back to the intro price...

It's working on me. I wasn't even going to look at it, but now I've got Discover for free, I'm probably going to get Core.

Marketing 101. Win Win. For Spitfire


----------



## gussunkri

audiosprite said:


> i guess this option isn't available for marcatos? meaning they're not 'long' patches?


You are probably looking at the wrong place. It is in the upper right corner, either the three dots or the cogwheel (not at the computer right now so I can’t check which).


----------



## Alex Fraser

I must be the last forum member to get a copy of Discover, having got it last night.

Initial impressions are that yes, the depth of sampling is _very_ light. But that BBCSO sound is right there once you stack the instruments up. I struggling to think of a word to describe it without resorting to the "c word." 

And £50 being knocked off Core was a welcome surprise.


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

@Artemi



I've gotten sidetracked a bunch since starting this project but happy to say I've finished a render of Elfman's Batman theme entirely using BBCSO (+ Berlin WW for the english horn). I used the Omni book and played everything in. Learned a ton.

It's my first virtualization and master that I've done with a complete orchestra library like this, very open to feedback if anyone has any tips.


----------



## davetbass

I've finally started digging into the Discover version, trying duplicate some famous orchestral pieces like the Dr. Who theme. I've noticed some things like the slow attack on the strings that I wish I could change but I'm assuming that's in the higher versions which I'm not even going to think about until I master this. 

My question for people who have lived through the history of sample libraries is in what year would Discover be considered the best sample library available? Kind of like if I took my 2011 Lenovo Thinkpad back to the year 2000, It would be the considered the most powerful machine on earth (or at least the local coffee shop), Thanks!


----------



## drews

Hope this is the right place to ask. I picked up BBC Core at the sale. When i load even the "lightest" ableton template, my RAM usage spikes to 31Gb/32Gb even though the plugin itself is saying it's only using 13Gb of RAM. Is this an issue with ableton? My pro tools MIDI is completely bugged right now so i cant really test it out great on there and i don't have Cubase yet.


----------



## jaketanner

I’m so glad I didn’t give in to getting BBC before it’s truly optimized and de-bugged. Hopefully by Black Friday.


----------



## mussnig

Does anybody know if Spitfire has any intentions to bring a "Purge Samples" feature to their player? Afaik you can purge articulations - still, for people with limited RAM a feature to purge samples (like in Kontakt) would be very nice. It's actually one of the reasons that's holding me back from getting Core ...


----------



## yiph2

mussnig said:


> Does anybody know if Spitfire has any intentions to bring a "Purge Samples" feature to their player? Afaik you can purge articulations - still, for people with limited RAM a feature to purge samples (like in Kontakt) would be very nice. It's actually one of the reasons that's holding me back from getting Core ...


Yep, they have stated that quite a few times, but not sure when they will release it


----------



## Theladur

drews said:


> Hope this is the right place to ask. I picked up BBC Core at the sale. When i load even the "lightest" ableton template, my RAM usage spikes to 31Gb/32Gb even though the plugin itself is saying it's only using 13Gb of RAM. Is this an issue with ableton? My pro tools MIDI is completely bugged right now so i cant really test it out great on there and i don't have Cubase yet.



This is not ableton specific, but a problem of the plugin, which mainly seems to affect windows users.
See for example here and here in the other thread, or here at spitfire support.


----------



## Aldo_arf

I downloaded BBC SO Discover a few months ago but never really used it. Today I decided to do a quick and simple orchestration (No programming at all). I´m absolutely impressed with the quality of the sound. It just sounds so real and it is the free version. I loved the spatiality within the instruments. I was hoping to get HZS as birthday present but now... maybe I´ll go for BBC SO Pro version.


----------



## jaketanner

Aldo_arf said:


> I downloaded BBC SO Discover a few months ago but never really used it. Today I decided to do a quick and simple orchestration (No programming at all). I´m absolutely impressed with the quality of the sound. It just sounds so real and it is the free version. I loved the spatiality within the instruments. I was hoping to get HZS as birthday present but now... maybe I´ll go for BBC SO Pro version.


So funny to hear you say this. It’s exactly how I feel. I tried to write a few bars with the Discover Strings and it just sounds the way I want it to but I’m so resistant to buying more SF because of the inconsistencies. But I may cave.


----------



## Aldo_arf

jaketanner said:


> So funny to hear you say this. It’s exactly how I feel. I tried to write a few bars with the Discover Strings and it just sounds the way I want it to but I’m so resistant to buying more SF because of the inconsistencies. But I may cave.


Yeah, i feel the same about the inconsistencies. For what I´ve seen in several demos, "virtuoso" orchestral mockups are not BBC SO strength. You know, incredibly fast legatos and ostinatos sometimes may require deeper programing as every other library to achieve realism. 

When browsing through all demos I could´ve encounter, I did notice that the ones I enjoyed the most were original compositions. Most of popular songs arrangements were not too much appealing for me. Maybe it´s because we have heard this songs thousands of times that when we try to emulate them with vsts something doesn´t feel quite right. In original compositions, I think BBCSO can shine as much as your abilities to compose can reach. Simply because we are not tied to what we feel a certain piece should sound like.


----------



## jaketanner

Aldo_arf said:


> Yeah, i feel the same about the inconsistencies. For what I´ve seen in several demos, "virtuoso" orchestral mockups are not BBC SO strength. You know, incredibly fast legatos and ostinatos sometimes may require deeper programing as every other library to achieve realism.
> 
> When browsing through all demos I could´ve encounter, I did notice that the ones I enjoyed the most were original compositions. Most of popular songs arrangements were not too much appealing for me. Maybe it´s because we have heard this songs thousands of times that when we try to emulate them with vsts something doesn´t feel quite right. In original compositions, I think BBCSO can shine as much as your abilities to compose can reach. Simply because we are not tied to what we feel a certain piece should sound like.


All of the best demos are here. https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com

What I think I would like best is that the orchestra is within one plugin...no more searching through libraries to find sounds..granted if I had a template setup that would solve that issue..LOL


----------



## Dom100

tadam said:


> For me it's a change indeed.
> I have BBC SO Professional (pre-ordered), but the BBC SO project I started writing on my Windows 7 machine was not playable properly on my new Windows 10 PC. Clicks and pops, CPU overloads all the time.
> 
> Yesterday I updated to the new version of the plugin, project playback was smooth, CPU load was around 35-40%. Still to be tested, but very promising for now.
> 
> Can anyone else confirm the improvement on performance?


Hi I'm new to this forum so sorry if I'm not following the correct etiquette, but I wondered what your performance is like now with BBC SO Pro? I am getting a new PC and have purchased BBC SO already so I'm hoping it is OK (multithreading etc)?! Thanks in advance.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Dom100 said:


> Hi I'm new to this forum so sorry if I'm not following the correct etiquette, but I wondered what your performance is like now with BBC SO Pro? I am getting a new PC and have purchased BBC SO already so I'm hoping it is OK (multithreading etc)?! Thanks in advance.


Hello Dom!
I couldn't figure out what was causing the problem, I did everything the Spitfire support team suggested and even custom performance modifier settings, but I still experience clicks and pops, especially with the legatos or if I make a complete template and play fast short passages with many instrument goups. 
(The libray runs on a Samsung 860EVO)
If I save the project and restart my machine, it's better for a while. Well this is also experienced with Cinestrings solo library, so I can't tell that the problem caused by the Spitfire player. 
And many users can use it without problems on windows 10 machine.

Maybe I will try it with Studio One instead of Cubase.

By the way, the issue appears with the new Abbey Road plugin as well, so I think it is some compatibility problem with my machine.


----------



## Dom100

tadam said:


> Hello Dom!
> I couldn't figure out what was causing the problem, I did everything the Spitfire support team suggested and even custom performance modifier settings, but I still experience clicks and pops, especially with the legatos or if I make a complete template and play fast short passages with many instrument goups.
> (The libray runs on a Samsung 860EVO)
> If I save the project and restart my machine, it's better for a while. Well this is also experienced with Cinestrings solo library, so I can't tell that the problem caused by the Spitfire player.
> And many users can use it without problems on windows 10 machine.
> 
> Maybe I will try it with Studio One instead of Cubase.
> 
> By the way, the issue appears with the new Abbey Road plugin as well, so I think it is some compatibility problem with my machine.


Thanks for such a quick and detailed response tadam! That sounds positive. On a related note, my current PC has 128 Gg RAM and a 4-5 yr old i7 processor running Windows 7. The new machine will be very powerful, either 14-18 core i9 (with up to 256 Gg RAM), or one of the very latest Ryzen 5950X processors (probably limited to 128 Gg RAM), both with M2's/SSD's. The Ryzen is probably more powerful, especially single core speed (and looks like it will outperform on the different Dawbench tests), so wondering which to get (Threadripper has recently been blacklisted for now by Steinberg)? I can sometimes use, say 100 Gg on my current orchestral projects with the i7, but the processor really does struggle. Whereas with a new Ryzen, I might be able to optimise BBC SO to use less RAM (and also things like Kontakt with Purge), so I use less RAM, but have more power, especially for playing fast rhythms live at lower buffer settings? Not sure if you have a view on this from your own experience (or whether I should really start a new thread?!). I have also looked at VEPro, which I may add to the workflow, but will keep things in Cubase for now (using VST instruments seems to spread the load well currently). Anyway thanks again and of course happy to give an opinion on anything your side from my own experience.......


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## MOMA

jaketanner said:


> So funny to hear you say this. It’s exactly how I feel. I tried to write a few bars with the Discover Strings and it just sounds the way I want it to but I’m so resistant to buying more SF because of the inconsistencies. But I may cave.



Its truly impressive. So impressive that I ran off and bought the Core. Built my own template with freeze tracks for rapid launch and have really enjoyed it. The playability and the sound is a treat!

*MOMA*
Stockholm, Sweden


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## Fleer

I wonder if Core would work well on a new MacBook Air (M1) with 8GB RAM.


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## Jon W

Fleer said:


> I wonder if Core would work well on a new MacBook Air (M1) with 8GB RAM.


Not sure, but the one upgrade I would get with an M1 MacBook Air is 16Gb RAM for $180 USD.


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## jaketanner

MOMA said:


> Its truly impressive. So impressive that I ran off and bought the Core. Built my own template with freeze tracks for rapid launch and have really enjoyed it. The playability and the sound is a treat!
> 
> *MOMA*
> Stockholm, Sweden


I have long since bought the Pro version....making a template with it now in fact.


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## jzhwu

Jon W said:


> Not sure, but the one upgrade I would get with an M1 MacBook Air is 16Gb RAM for $180 USD.



It could be tight with 16GB ram. My BBC core template runs around 10~12GB with 20~30 tracks including plugins...etc with Logic on MBP.


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## jaketanner

jzhwu said:


> It could be tight with 16GB ram. My BBC core template runs around 10~12GB with 20~30 tracks including plugins...etc with Logic on MBP.


16 is no where near enough...once you have those tracks filled with data, you would be freezing tracks a lot. Doable of course, but limited for sure...don't bother with the M1 Macs..they are not tested and to be avoided for audio...wait until they get at least 32 gigs minimum allowed, and are supported by all developers.


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## Fleer

Then again, I’m reading interesting things about the use of RAM in that new M1 chip. Maybe it just needs less RAM while streaming is optimized...


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## jaketanner

Fleer said:


> Then again, I’m reading interesting things about the use of RAM in that new M1 chip. Maybe it just needs less RAM while streaming is optimized...


Yes this is true according to Apple...but we have yet to see how it works and is optimized for Audio. There is a thread on FB I think in the Pro Tools or Audio Production groups...the consensus is a big NO! LOL. ONLY if it is an absolute must, and possibly as an experiment for a second mobile rig...but definitely not as your main computer.


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## mscp

jaketanner said:


> Yes this is true according to Apple...but we have yet to see how it works and is optimized for Audio. There is a thread on FB I think in the Pro Tools or Audio Production groups...the consensus is a big NO! LOL. ONLY if it is an absolute must, and possibly as an experiment for a second mobile rig...but definitely not as your main computer.



They're just starting. Give it time. 

Message brought by a Windows 10 user!


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## kgdrum

As potentially promising as Apples new chips and the computers looks, I almost always try to avoid any 1st run of anything Apple releases whether it’s software or hardware.
There’s usually a quick fix with a .01 or .02 software update but with hardware the fix might require a change in the actual build and architecture making the 1st run somewhat obsolete.
With Macs numerous times a major update comes a year or two later and the initial release can not utilize the latest revisions.
Will I consider these new M1 Macs? Sure! eventually.......................Initially not a chance ,lol


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## Jon W

jzhwu said:


> It could be tight with 16GB ram. My BBC core template runs around 10~12GB with 20~30 tracks including plugins...etc with Logic on MBP.


If 16Gb is not enough then that would rule out an M1 MacBook Air. 16Gb is the max.


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## mussnig

Hi,

I recently got BBC SO Core. So far I like it, but I am wondering if it is normal that it takes so long to load up a patch. The library is on the same external NVMe as my Kontakt Libraries (which load very fast - even large patches). Still, BBC SO loads relatively slow compared to the others. I just opened at complete template and it took a few minutes to load everything ...

Is this normal?


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## mybadmemory

mussnig said:


> Hi,
> 
> I recently got BBC SO Core. So far I like it, but I am wondering if it is normal that it takes so long to load up a patch. The library is on the same external NVMe as my Kontakt Libraries (which load very fast - even large patches). Still, BBC SO loads relatively slow compared to the others. I just opened at complete template and it took a few minutes to load everything ...
> 
> Is this normal?



Unfortunately yes. It loads quite a bit slower than my other libraries. Part of it might be the player, and part of it might be the fact that patches load with all articulations enabled. 

The spitfire player would need a way to to quickly load/unload articulations from the main page of the multi articulation patches. 

Disabling them completely from the editor is not really the same thing, we really do want them all available, just the option to load/unload at will from the main page. ❤️


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## mussnig

mybadmemory said:


> Unfortunately yes. It loads quite a bit slower than my other libraries. Part of it might be the player, and part of it might be the fact that patches load with all articulations enabled.
> 
> The spitfire player would need a way to to quickly load/unload articulations from the main page of the multi articulation patches.
> 
> Disabling them completely from the editor is not really the same thing, we really do want them all available, just the option to load/unload at will from the main page. ❤



Ah, I see. Well, at least I know it's just not my system.

What I am really missing (but I knew this before) is an option to purge samples, like in Kontakt. If your RAM has limits, this is essential ...


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## mybadmemory

Any word on when the update will be out?


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## Brasart

mybadmemory said:


> Any word on when the update will be out?



Paul said something like a couple weeks after BF


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## Kirk1701

What are the odds there will be promotional pricing with the upgrades? 

Core is on sale now, but if it's going to be cheaper or the same price with the upgrade, I'll wait.

I have Discover, but the lack of extended articulations is frustrating. It's like building a house with only hand tools. I find it headache-inducing as a sketch tool.


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## mussnig

Kirk1701 said:


> What are the odds there will be promotional pricing with the upgrades?
> 
> Core is on sale now, but if it's going to be cheaper or the same price with the upgrade, I'll wait.
> 
> I have Discover, but the lack of extended articulations is frustrating. It's like building a house with only hand tools. I find it headache-inducing as a sketch tool.



I highly doubt it. BBCSO was released about a year ago and the Core edition only a few months ago. 40 % is already a lot ...


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## dzilizzi

Kirk1701 said:


> What are the odds there will be promotional pricing with the upgrades?
> 
> Core is on sale now, but if it's going to be cheaper or the same price with the upgrade, I'll wait.
> 
> I have Discover, but the lack of extended articulations is frustrating. It's like building a house with only hand tools. I find it headache-inducing as a sketch tool.


Updates are generally free. This will be an update. You aren't going to get a better deal than 40% off any time soon.


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## Ashermusic

Kirk1701 said:


> What are the odds there will be promotional pricing with the upgrades?
> 
> Core is on sale now, but if it's going to be cheaper or the same price with the upgrade, I'll wait.
> 
> I have Discover, but the lack of extended articulations is frustrating. It's like building a house with only hand tools. I find it headache-inducing as a sketch tool.




Seriously, you are complaining about the incompleteness of a $49 library?


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## icecoolpool

Kirk1701 said:


> What are the odds there will be promotional pricing with the upgrades?
> 
> Core is on sale now, but if it's going to be cheaper or the same price with the upgrade, I'll wait.
> 
> I have Discover, but the lack of extended articulations is frustrating. It's like building a house with only hand tools. I find it headache-inducing as a sketch tool.



I bought Core a week or so ago for €220 as an upgrade to Discover. Insane value, there´s so much there and the sound quality is massively better than Discover. Very happy with the purchase.


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## dzilizzi

Ashermusic said:


> Seriously, you are complaining about the incompleteness of a $49 library?


Technically a free library......


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## Kirk1701

Ashermusic said:


> Seriously, you are complaining about the incompleteness of a $49 library?



Walk me through how I'm complaining.


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## Kirk1701

icecoolpool said:


> I bought Core a week or so ago for €220 as an upgrade to Discover. Insane value, there´s so much there and the sound quality is massively better than Discover. Very happy with the purchase.



I'm pleased to hear it. I agree the value is excellent. I wanted to see how others were enjoying it before I try to scrape up the cash.


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## Fleer

Jon W said:


> If 16Gb is not enough then that would rule out an M1 MacBook Air. 16Gb is the max.


Not when they value 32GB or more


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## Ashermusic

Kirk1701 said:


> Walk me through how I'm complaining.



“The lack of extended articulations is frustrating “ sounds like that to me.


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## Kirk1701

Ashermusic said:


> “The lack of extended articulations is frustrating “ sounds like that to me.



So you just ignored the rest of the post just to be contentious?


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## Ashermusic

Kirk1701 said:


> So you just ignored the rest of the post just to be contentious?




No, that is just how it read to me. If you did not intend that, fine, and if others did not read it that way, also fine.


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