# Deliver stems + separate reverb for each stem?



## JeffvR (Apr 17, 2018)

First time ever I got asked to deliver stems + separate reverb for each stem for a film. Is this usual? Never done this before. My thoughts
- the reverb is an integral part of the mix and the music the way I intended it
- is there some kind of doubt I can't mix properly? Or I don't have an "expensive" reverb?
- what to do with delays and other fx
- what to do with baked in reverb?

I just get the sense I'm giving away too much control about the mix this way. To deliver stems is something I prefer not too, but I get why it's convenient sometimes for the mix. But why the reverb stems? Curious about the thoughts over here.


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## Scoremixer (Apr 17, 2018)

Separate reverb stems is an unusual request. Is your mix in stereo and the dub wants the flexibility to make it surround? Either way, it would be worth getting in touch with the dubbing mixer. Sometimes tech requests can become subject to chinese whispers by well-meaning people in long email chains...


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Apr 17, 2018)

"I'm sorry but all of the reverb came already in the samples."


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## gsilbers (Apr 17, 2018)

Scoremixer said:


> Separate reverb stems is an unusual request. Is your mix in stereo and the dub wants the flexibility to make it surround? Either way, it would be worth getting in touch with the dubbing mixer. Sometimes tech requests can become subject to chinese whispers by well-meaning people in long email chains...



lol so true.


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## gsilbers (Apr 17, 2018)

JeffvR said:


> First time ever I got asked to deliver stems + separate reverb for each stem for a film. Is this usual? Never done this before. My thoughts
> - the reverb is an integral part of the mix and the music the way I intended it
> - is there some kind of doubt I can't mix properly? Or I don't have an "expensive" reverb?
> - what to do with delays and other fx
> ...



stems delivery is normal. inmy experience most re-recording mixers just rather use the stereo mix and spend their time with the dialog. at least until there is an issue of the music classhing w the dialog.

I got to check out the stems for the movie Street kings and one thing that was interesting was that percussive elements where panned front while pads and sustain instruments to the back.

also, checked out the main title of american horror story by @charlieclouser where elements get panned around the 5.1 mix.

these might be the only times where having a separate reverb stem for each instrument group might make sense. and ive checked thousands of stems for tv shows and movies for all the studios and those are the only two that come to mind and readin charlies posts on his deliverables i dont think he sent separate reverb stems for each group, so basically its very odd to have a composer deliver this way so most mixes will be very straight forward with the reverb. i do remeber a lot of mixes are front heavy on the perc but normally imo, its a score mixer thing and not the rerecording mixer redoing this.

my opinion is what scoremixer said, there might be some breakdown iin comunication or like sometimes happens, the re-recording mixer had a weird/odd expeirence with a previous score where maybe the perc reverb was too loud and coudlnt change it and muddy up the mix so now he asks for this and out of context just sounds wierd.

but im just guessing. i would just deliver one reverb stem for all instruments and say its creative intent. thats the magic word.


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## JeffvR (Apr 17, 2018)

Scoremixer said:


> Separate reverb stems is an unusual request. Is your mix in stereo and the dub wants the flexibility to make it surround?



Yes this! But even then... It will be some straight forward music probably. I don't see the reason to put music in the back speakers. Or maybe they want the reverb tracks in the back... The way they explained it to me was like: "we want some control over the reverb. We have a proper mixing space and speakers so it's easy for us to judge what works. We might add our own reverb or change the wet/dry balance accordingly".

Feels a bit like they don't have a lot of trust in my mixing capabilities. Or they just like to have full control.


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## JohnG (Apr 17, 2018)

quite uncommon, but not unheard of. Hope they don't wreck your music.


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## AlexRuger (Apr 17, 2018)

I actually very much prefer delivering my stems like this (and am currently setting up my template to be able to always do it, all at once, offline!!) I've sometimes found myself in a dub mix thinking that if only I had control over the wet/dry mix of a stem, it'd be easier to deal with whatever clash we're having. And if some producer says that the music is too "present" and the usual "just turn all the music down" doesn't work, turning down the dry stem of whatever is high and/or playing the melody can quickly give them what they want.


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## JeffvR (Apr 17, 2018)

AlexRuger said:


> I actually very much prefer delivering my stems like this (and am currently setting up my template to be able to always do it, all at once, offline!!) I've sometimes found myself in a dub mix thinking that if only I had control over the wet/dry mix of a stem, it'd be easier to deal with whatever clash we're having. And if some producer says that the music is too "present" and the usual "just turn all the music down" doesn't work, turning down the dry stem of whatever is high and/or playing the melody can quickly give them what they want.



Interesting! Not sure which daw you're on. But I'm on Cubase where you can bounce groups and fx offline. Just be sure to not send the reverb back to the group again. But the sound girl said I could come to them before the mixing stage so I could check the music.


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## KEM (Apr 18, 2018)

My friend that mixes all of my stuff for me always ask for the instruments dry and the reverb/delay sends separate, this way he can EQ everything exactly how he wants and if he ever needs to change or add anything he can do it with dry sounds.


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## Living Fossil (Apr 18, 2018)

JeffvR said:


> Feels a bit like they don't have a lot of trust in my mixing capabilities. Or they just like to have full control.



You shouldn't make a personal drama out of it.
Most score mixers have a workflow that they are used to for many years, and so, they have their usual wish list.
That's plus work for you, but it also means having more flexibility when it comes to create a convincing surround mix.
(or, if some stems are routed to the LFE, to prevent unnecessary rumbling etc.)

You shouldn't care to much about "baked in reverb", that's something which is a given fact...

Personally, i'm used to deliver separately those effect stems, which are interesting for creative panning, or which - depending on the Sounddesign etc. maybe won't be essential.
Then again, i bounce the stems with a bit less reverb than needed, so there is still space for glueing surround reverbs on the dubbing stage.


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## ryanstrong (Apr 18, 2018)

How does one export reverb stems? Export stems with the reverb disabled, and then export stems with the reverb turned on? Is that what that means?


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## fixxer49 (Apr 18, 2018)

ryanstrong said:


> How does one export reverb stems? Export stems with the reverb disabled, and then export stems with the reverb turned on? Is that what that means?


It means dry stems on their own track with their corresponding reverb sends on separate tracks. Don't disable the reverb. But you cannot have reverb as an insert on any of the tracks. It has to be routed to a send or an auxiliary bus.
1. Send the dry stems to their own outputs. 2. Route the reverb _sends _to different outputs (grouped by stem group.)

I'm seeing people post on this forum that it's uncommon. i found it to be quite a common practice as an assistant on a couple of TV series.


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## AlexRuger (Apr 18, 2018)

JeffvR said:


> Interesting! Not sure which daw you're on. But I'm on Cubase where you can bounce groups and fx offline. Just be sure to not send the reverb back to the group again. But the sound girl said I could come to them before the mixing stage so I could check the music.


Yes, I'm in Cubase. These reverbs (i.e. orchestral reverbs) won't be hosted on an FX track, but rather in VEPro with the orchestra, and will just get a separate return into Cubase.


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## reddognoyz (Apr 18, 2018)

In my template I have a separate reverb for each stem. I have two reverb sends on each instrument and their automation is grouped so it sends the same to each bus. One bus feeds the full mix reverb and one, the stem verb. I keep the stem reverb muted to save cpu until I am ready to print.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 18, 2018)

I have been asked, many times, to send the stems bone dry. My fear was always that the editors will think my music sounds like shit once all the reverb is gone, but at the and of the day...it's not what YOU want. You need to deliver as per their instructions, that's what you're getting paid for. If you're concerned, additionally send fully mixed cues a reference as to what you intended them to sound like.


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## VinRice (Apr 21, 2018)

reddognoyz said:


> In my template I have a separate reverb for each stem. I have two reverb sends on each instrument and their automation is grouped so it sends the same to each bus. One bus feeds the full mix reverb and one, the stem verb. I keep the stem reverb muted to save cpu until I am ready to print.



I like that, I'm stealing it. I too have reverb on each stem (maybe two plus a delay some times) and it can get pretty heavy CPU wise.


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## JohnG (Apr 21, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I have been asked, many times, to send the stems bone dry. My fear was always that the editors will think my music sounds like shit once all the reverb is gone, but at the and of the day...it's not what YOU want. You need to deliver as per their instructions, that's what you're getting paid for. If you're concerned, additionally send fully mixed cues a reference as to what you intended them to sound like.




That is very interesting. I have never once been asked for dry stems that I remember.

One tip if you're using Pro Tools: You can exclude the stem reverbs from Delay Compensation, which is a good idea in my view. Otherwise, if you have six or eight stems, the reverbs alone will suck up all your DSP. The way to do it is to enable Delay Compensation, right-click each reverb in turn at the bottom of the track (not where the sends are) and exclude it from Delay Compensation. Doing so does affect the reverb but it appears more or less inaudible to me. Maybe about the same as extra pre-delay.


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## eowyoung (Oct 15, 2019)

reddognoyz said:


> In my template I have a separate reverb for each stem. I have two reverb sends on each instrument and their automation is grouped so it sends the same to each bus. One bus feeds the full mix reverb and one, the stem verb. I keep the stem reverb muted to save cpu until I am ready to print.


I love this idea! So I'm trying to set it up. However, in Cubase, I'm trying to figure out how to link or group sends on a channel to make this happen. Anyone know?


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