# Thoughts on Slate Digital's Verbsuite?



## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 27, 2016)

He anyone tried it? I'm interested in it for the Bricasti. Seems to have some official backing from Bricasti. I'd like to learn what one sounds like and use but can't afford one anytime soon so I'm looking for the closest thing possible. I don't want to establish it as the Bricasti sound in my ears if it turns out to not be all that "authentic." Is anyone who owns a Bricasti able to compare it with the plugin?


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## Shan (Oct 27, 2016)

It's the same engine used in http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_reverberate.htm (LiquidSonics Reverberate), but with a simplified GUI. It's proprietary Fusion-IR technology is impressive to hear, and captures the evolving characteristics of _time-varying_ reverbs as apposed to just a static convolution snapshot. If you have Reverberate, you can http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_fir_archives.htm (grab their Bricasti M7 Fusion-IRs here). Those will be the same Fusion-IRs used in VerbSuite when it's released. I love the Boston Hall A preset. It's definitely stunning to my ears!


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## Chandler (Oct 27, 2016)

I haven't used it, but when the newest version on Reverberate came out people were saying it sounded very close to a real Bricasti. Keep in mind that is is convolution based, so although the tech is new and sounds closer than normal IRs, it still has limitations. You can't adjust a lot of the parameters like a real Bricasti, but of course it doesn't cost nearly as much.


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## ceemusic (Oct 27, 2016)

I have Reverberate 2 &beta tested the Slate version. The Bricasti's are the best M7 IR's available IMO. The Fusion technology he uses gives them an algo type vibe rather than static convolution.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 27, 2016)

Shan said:


> It's the same engine used in http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_reverberate.htm (LiquidSonics Reverberate), but with a simplified GUI. It's proprietary Fusion-IR technology is impressive to hear, and captures the evolving characteristics of _time-varying_ reverbs as apposed to just a static convolution snapshot. If you have Reverberate, you can http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_fir_archives.htm (grab their Bricasti M7 Fusion-IRs here). Those will be the same Fusion-IRs used in VerbSuite when it's released. I love the Boston Hall A preset. It's definitely stunning to my ears!



So you're saying that the Bricasti from LiquidSonics would sound exactly the same as the Slate? Is it that much better than the convolutions available for free (i.e. worth the price of admission if the Bricasti is all that I'm after)? I'm curious as to why Alan Meyerson isn't using it. I believe the R2 is the closest thing he found to his Bricasti which he can use on individual tracks rather than being limited to the 6 hardware units he has.


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## ceemusic (Oct 27, 2016)

Not sure if they'd be exactly the same because it's not the same exact software although it uses the same technology & engine. Probably so or very close though, I don't think he did anything to the IR's.


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## zacnelson (Oct 28, 2016)

I'm no expert on reverb, but I just installed the VerbSuite (I have the Slate subscription anyway) and tried it, to my ears it sounds beautiful, BUT I've never even touched a Bricasti before, so I'm just comparing it to other software plugins. But, anyway, I'm happy so that's good!


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## Studio E (Oct 28, 2016)

I haven't had time to download the update with the Verb Suite yet, but if I get a chance, I'll look into it's representation of the Bricasti and see if I can make some comparisons with my M7. I'll be quite interested as well.


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## Jaap (Oct 28, 2016)

Been fiddeling around it in my template for a bit and though I don't like the browsing through the menu I absolutely love the Briscati (for the record I am in no way a reverb guru). Created some presets for myself for orchestral music using different halls in the briscati and it adds in my opinion a lot of richness and depth to the sound. Less in your face and feels like much more space for the instrument. Only messed around with it for a bit and will have to test and adjust it indepth after the weekend, but so far so good in my opinion!
Untill now I have been using EW Spaces and sometimes the Hybrid Reverb from the Vienna Suite, so that's my comparission if you want to know


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## MarcelM (Oct 28, 2016)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> So you're saying that the Bricasti from LiquidSonics would sound exactly the same as the Slate? Is it that much better than the convolutions available for free (i.e. worth the price of admission if the Bricasti is all that I'm after)? I'm curious as to why Alan Meyerson isn't using it. I believe the R2 is the closest thing he found to his Bricasti which he can use on individual tracks rather than being limited to the 6 hardware units he has.



maybe alan meyerson just didnt try reverberate 2 just like alot of people. the product isnt as popular as for example altiverb, so this might be the reason. the m7 impulses sound alot better than the free ones you can get. 

you can demo reverberate 2 and give it a try. iam no expert, but my ears never heard a better convolution reverb so far.


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## zacnelson (Oct 28, 2016)

Jaap said:


> Been fiddeling around it in my template for a bit and though I don't like the browsing through the menu I absolutely love the Briscati (for the record I am in no way a reverb guru). Created some presets for myself for orchestral music using different halls in the briscati and it adds in my opinion a lot of richness and depth to the sound. Less in your face and feels like much more space for the instrument. Only messed around with it for a bit and will have to test and adjust it indepth after the weekend, but so far so good in my opinion!
> Untill now I have been using EW Spaces and sometimes the Hybrid Reverb from the Vienna Suite, so that's my comparission if you want to know


Did you muck around much with the predelay, attack etc? Or just load up a hall and enjoy the sound? I've used EW Spaces a fair bit and I found this new plugin gave me more of an instant gratification, I certainly was smiling as I lifted the faders on various types of instruments and heard it blend beautifully with the reverb. I am a novice with reverb though


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## Jaap (Oct 28, 2016)

zacnelson said:


> Did you muck around much with the predelay, attack etc? Or just load up a hall and enjoy the sound? I've used EW Spaces a fair bit and I found this new plugin gave me more of an instant gratification, I certainly was smiling as I lifted the faders on various types of instruments and heard it blend beautifully with the reverb. I am a novice with reverb though



No I messed around with all the settings as well. The decay, the eq, attack, width, predelay etc and I agree it gives instant gratification, same here haha


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## Shan (Oct 28, 2016)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> So you're saying that the Bricasti from LiquidSonics would sound exactly the same as the Slate?



Yes. The same M7 Fusion-IRs are used. Reverberate has far more parameters and control to change the initial IR though. It's pretty deep when it comes to control.



Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Is it that much better than the convolutions available for free



Yes. I have the other M7 IR's out there and they are all static IR captures. The M7 Fusion-IR's captured the time-varying characteristics, hence one wouldn't be able to use the Fusion-IR's in other IR plug-ins. The M7 Fusion IR's are definitely stunning to my ears. The other free one's out there are good, but don't compare to the M7 Fusion-IR's.

I know the developer, so I'll see if he'll want to chime in here to answer more of the technical questions regarding both verbs.


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## jamwerks (Oct 28, 2016)

Studio E said:


> I haven't had time to download the update with the Verb Suite yet, but if I get a chance, I'll look into it's representation of the Bricasti and see if I can make some comparisons with my M7. I'll be quite interested as well.


Would love to hear some comparisons with our usual orchestral samples, and maybe even throw in a B2 or R2 to compare to also!


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## LiquidSonics (Oct 28, 2016)

Hi, thanks Shane for the tip. I'll be happy to come and answer questions on the tech and the relationship between Reverberate 2 and VerbSuite Classics. In summary they use the same core convolution engines, so what you'd get on a basic Reverberate 2 patch using a Fusion-IR is going to sound basically the same in VerbSuite Classics. VS-C also uses the LiquidSonics chorus; the filters come from Slate Digital. A big difference is the focus of the plugin on usability and getting that high quality immediate sound without distraction, and that Slate Digital have taken the time to do some great samples of some classic devices that aren't usually easy to get elsewhere. 

It's not so much an officially sanctioned by Bricasti (it isn't), it's just that if you put Bricasti IRs online they have to be free, not incorporated into a core product - so that's what we've done here. We are using the M7 Fusion-IRs that were made for Reverberate 2 and putting them into the hands of a lot more people. It's great to be able to reach an even wider audience through Slate Digital for the Fusion-IR tech, and so far reactions have been very positive.

If anybody would like to compare the Fusion-IRs to their own Bricasti, thats cool and I'll be interested in your take. If you're a fan you're going to tell the difference on an A/B I'm sure, but if you tell me you don't think it's pretty darn close I'll be surprised. The modulated vs static IRs are like night and day.


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## MarcelM (Oct 28, 2016)

are there any new fusion ir coming in the future for reverberate 2? if i remember right it was discussed at another forum in the official release thread.


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## LiquidSonics (Oct 28, 2016)

There will be but I don't have any timeframe for you. I'm currently very busy with development work and don't have time myself but am in discussions with somebody about having some done externally but we need to find the right devices to do it with.

I don't intend the last ever sets to be the M7 and FS-1 packs by any means.


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## Shan (Oct 28, 2016)

Thanks for chiming in here Matt.

Are there any plans to release an IR maker plug-in/utility app to make our own Fusion-IR's? Are there any benefits to using the Fusion-IR process with real rooms and spaces?


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## LiquidSonics (Oct 28, 2016)

A tool is also something I want to do, I want it to be point-and-shoot simple, but to get the best from Fusion-IRs there is a bit of trial and error on sampling strategy to go through so all of that needs to be built into a simple to use tool so the results are high quality. It's not a trivial exercise, maybe I will end up getting a contractor to do it, but it's finding the right person that owns some good reverbs and has the c++ skills. 

I am not completely sure about the benefits on rooms or other types of reverb yet - let's just say it's an open question that I do intend to focus more on because some early trials were encouraging but I've not dug deep enough to really judge properly yet.


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## Greg (Oct 28, 2016)

Sounds f**king great! Bought it without even watching Stevens promo video.


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## jsmithsebasto (Oct 31, 2016)

Its incredible. With the recent price drop in the everything bundle it is SO worth it.


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## shomyca (Nov 1, 2016)

I did some matching for myself, the real M7 with Slate's Verbsuite. I downloaded the tracks from some verb shootout threads on gearslutz. I found the two dry tracks, solo violin and solo piano, as well as the same tracks with M7. Here is the link with the files:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B2wWJVBjRvkWRl82YU5VX0UxUjg?usp=sharing

I tried to matched them as much as I could. File names are self-explanatory. For the sample "violin_bricasti_m7" I don't know what the preset is so I tried to match it with Sunset Chamber in the VerbSuite.

For me, it's pretty close, except I feel that the Slate's verb is somehow more detached from the signal, and real bricasti is more connected with it, like a beautiful warm hug around the instrument all the time. Although, the difference for me is really subtle ( or i am just kidding myself...I don't consider myself a verb expert at all, still finding my way into the mixing and getting that pro sound). Either way, I LOVE Slate's verbs. 

What do you guys think?

I didn't want to make a shootout out of this, you could do it yourself with blind-playing the different files.

EDIT: Now, after some more listening to these samples I finally hear for the first time that Bricasti depth that everyone is talking about. Probably because plugs that I used don't really have it (and I tried a lot of them), and I never used hardware verbs. Or maybe I am wrong... Is there a plugin that has it?


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## zacnelson (Nov 1, 2016)

I've been using the Slate Bricasti for a few days now and I adore it, my initial impressions were great, and now that I've tried it on a few things I DO feel it `hugs' the instrument in the way that @shomyca described. Although, I've never used the real thing, so no doubt the `hugging' effect is far greater using the hardware unit.


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## jamwerks (Nov 1, 2016)

Just tried the demo, and absolutely love the (B)M7 module. Don't think I'd even need the others for orchestral samples. Sounds better (more expensive) to me than B2 that I was using. Went through almost all the presets, and ended up with just two: "Berlin Hall" on WW & Brass, and "Large and Near" (with the width set on max) for Adagio-Agitato.

And each library that I own sounds just a little bit better through this reverb. Amazing what it does to Hollywood Brass. Almost sounds like a different library. Almost makes me want to buy a real M7 just to bounce sections through at mix time. Slate Everything bundle has got me!


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## MarcelM (Nov 1, 2016)

i just wonder. since all you guys seem to prefer the m7 ir. where is the point in getting this when you can get reverberate for a better price? also it has way more settings. can you even disable early reflection in verb suite classics? how are the other impulses which come with it?


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## Blakus (Nov 1, 2016)

I'm of two minds with this verb. I'm trying really hard to "love" it, but I find myself in the "like" category at the moment. It does sound really great! But it does sound very detached from the source to me, which can be OK if that's what you're going for! The modulation also doesn't sound quite as nice to me as other algo verbs.


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## jamwerks (Nov 1, 2016)

Blakus said:


> I'm of two minds with this verb. I'm trying really hard to "love" it, but I find myself in the "like" category at the moment. It does sound really great! But it does sound very detached from the source to me, which can be OK if that's what you're going for! The modulation also doesn't sound quite as nice to me as other algo verbs.


What are you using that you like better, and glues better to the source?


Heroix said:


> i just wonder. since all you guys seem to prefer the m7 ir. where is the point in getting this when you can get reverberate for a better price? also it has way more settings. can you even disable early reflection in verb suite classics? how are the other impulses which come with it?


Nice thing about this in the bundle is that you get all of the plugins for $180 a year.


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## MarcelM (Nov 1, 2016)

ok, if you are going the subscription route it does indeed make sense to get this.

blakus is using nimbus and valhalla room... he may forgive me that i answered for him 

iam trying the demo of nimbus myself atm, and it really sounds awesome!

played for two hours some string patches using the premium hardware hall 
i tried alot of reverbs already, and to my ears nimbus is the best algo and reverberate 2 the best convolution.

my 2 cents


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## jamwerks (Nov 1, 2016)

Hmm, thanks for the info. I'll have to give Nimbus a try then!


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## prodigalson (Nov 3, 2016)

Trying out VerbSuite for the M7 and TC6000 impulses and holy crap they sound good. I'm also one that has no experience with a real Bricasti BUT I just swapped out my ValhallaVintageVerb in my template for the Amsterdam Hall in the VerbSuite BM7 and the difference is pretty stark. This reverb sounds stunning on orchestral material. 

Also...the TC6000 small room preset sounds great on acoustic guitar. This verb really pushes dry sounds back into the room. Sounds lovely. Will be purchasing for sure.


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## desert (Nov 3, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> Trying out VerbSuite for the M7 and TC6000 impulses and holy crap they sound good. I'm also one that has no experience with a real Bricasti BUT I just swapped out my ValhallaVintageVerb in my template for the Amsterdam Hall in the VerbSuite BM7 and the difference is pretty stark. This reverb sounds stunning on orchestral material.
> 
> Also...the TC6000 small room preset sounds great on acoustic guitar. This verb really pushes dry sounds back into the room. Sounds lovely. Will be purchasing for sure.


Post some examples!


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## pixel (Nov 6, 2016)

LiquidSonics said:


> Hi, thanks Shane for the tip. I'll be happy to come and answer questions on the tech and the relationship between Reverberate 2 and VerbSuite Classics. In summary they use the same core convolution engines, so what you'd get on a basic Reverberate 2 patch using a Fusion-IR is going to sound basically the same in VerbSuite Classics. VS-C also uses the LiquidSonics chorus; the filters come from Slate Digital. A big difference is the focus of the plugin on usability and getting that high quality immediate sound without distraction, and that Slate Digital have taken the time to do some great samples of some classic devices that aren't usually easy to get elsewhere.



...and this way topic about VerbSuite led me to buy Reverberate 2 when demo will come to expire. This plugin is mad! With all this controls I could put it on finished track during remastering and add wonderful full reverb only to dry vocal to make it full without artifacts on other instruments. On another mix that I'm working on it does miracles on acoustic guitars.
Fusion-IR is something that I've never heard before. It's like feather, warm fur for dry sounds.
At the beginning I thought that it gonna be just 'another reverb' because it was like that with many 'groundbreaking reverbs' on the market. But no, here I definitely can feel depth and space. Thanks to Reverberate 2 my 'service' is one level up


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## TeamLeader (Nov 15, 2016)

Hey Matt. I am having trouble matching my older M7 presets directly in Verbsuite with my previous instantiations of Reverberate2? And tips??? Specifically re: dry/wet settings. When I use an M7 IR inside reverberate2, I am simply loading it, and adjusting only the dry/wet under the reverberate2 mixer tab, and therein under the IR1 Edit tab. I add no eq, no extra modulation to it. Just gain and wet/dry settings. Any help is appreciated?


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Nov 20, 2016)

Finally got around to trying it out and the first thing I noticed was that it's a CPU hog. 8 instances already uses more processing power than 10+ Altiverbs in surround plus some Valhalla. I don't think that it's something I'll be able to incorporate into my template. Essentially 2x 5.1 busses of this and it already takes up more processing power than all of the reverbs I have in my template. Not sure if I should bite the bullet and buy it. Suggestions anyone? I am trying to get into score mixing work where this would be nice and I could push up the buffer to a ridiculously high setting and run whatever I want but I don't have any prospective projects for that ATM.


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