# 88 Key MIDI Keyboard Recommendations



## Bunford

Anybody got any recommendations for a budget/cheap 88 key semi weighted/weighted MIDI keyboard?

I currently use an Akai MPK61, but have always hated the springy synth style keys and rarely use the pads, only occasionally using the faders etc.

Any recommendations?


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## Mystic

You might be able to find a Yamaha KX8 fairly cheap somewhere like Ebay. It's got an amazingly nice keybed. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-KX8-Keyboard-/321854698130?hash=item4af008f292


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## Bunford

Cheers for that. Seems difficult to find in the UK! I have been looking at this one as it's apparently low profile too...

http://www.nektartech.com/Products/Impact-LX88


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## toddkedwards

Bunford said:


> Cheers for that. Seems difficult to find in the UK! I have been looking at this one as it's apparently low profile too...
> 
> http://www.nektartech.com/Products/Impact-LX88


I recently purchased this MIDI controller and I'm loving it so far. It feels great and works with my DAW (Logic). Check out this video from someone on the forum posted: 

I hope this helps in your decision.

Todd


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## Killiard

I bought the LX88 from Thomann a couple of months ago now. Been really good so far. Keys feel good for the price but I barely use any of the other controls. Kind of wish they did a model with just the keys!


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## Bunford

toddkedwards said:


> I recently purchased this MIDI controller and I'm loving it so far. It feels great and works with my DAW (Logic). Check out this video from someone on the forum posted:
> 
> I hope this helps in your decision.
> 
> Todd



SOLD!


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## Bunford

Anybody use it with Cubase Pro 8? I assume it behaves fine with that, seeing as it was released after Cubase Pro 8?


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## Bunford

Just ordered this Nektar Impact LX88 keyboard and it shall be arriving on Monday. Looking forward now as I did have a 49 key controller so hopefully it will be a nice upgrade


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## chimuelo

I bought a spare LX-88 from Nektar.

For the money I don't anything that offers what it does.


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## R.Cato

Tough choice. Just one small hint: Don't buy the Studiologic SL 990 Pro. The Modhwheel and Pitch Bender on almost all models I have played so far send random values to sequencers.


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## Killiard

I tried out the Native Instruments 88 key komplete Kontrol a couple of nights ago at an event in London. Felt quite nice but a lot heavier than my LX88. 

Lots of shiny lights, which I wasn't sure I'd actually really need / use. The rep said Spitfire libraries would be compatable with it soon.


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## Guy Rowland

Killiard said:


> I tried out the Native Instruments 88 key komplete Kontrol a couple of nights ago at an event in London. Felt quite nice but a lot heavier than my LX88.



Hey, er, what?! This is a thing?! It wasn't in a dream? This is big news. Oh that damn ribbon modwheel thing though... (unless they've rethought that in this version). Was it otherwise the same as the smaller units?


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## airflamesred

Killiard said:


> The rep said Spitfire libraries would be compatable with it soon.


Have they not been thus far then?


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## Bunford

airflamesred said:


> Have they not been thus far then?


They obviously are usable with the keyboard. I think he means the lighting. The keyboard Komplete Kontrol series was built for Komplete bundle. Therefore, a lot of the features is limited to that, such as Kontakt libraries active areas lighting up on the keyboard (each key has an RGB light at the end of it). The lights are also used for chords and scales etc I believe too, but only for limited products, hence why the comment of Spitfire stuff being compatible soon (with all the lighting gizmos of the keyboard I'm assuming).


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## Vastman

Killiard said:


> I tried out the Native Instruments 88 key komplete Kontrol a couple of nights ago at an event in London. Felt quite nice but a lot heavier than my LX88.
> 
> Lots of shiny lights, which I wasn't sure I'd actually really need / use. The rep said Spitfire libraries would be compatable with it soon.



No mention of an 88 key version of Kontrol anywhere... lucid dreaming???

I do think the LX-88 is the best thing going at the moment... Nektar has mapped the controls to all mainstream daws, even Sonar which usually is ignored... While I'd love an 88 version of the Akai advanced or Nektar Panorama series, the lx is great for the duckets...

Currently I have a Nektar lx 61 which uses the same software and an old M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 which is ancient, has a zillion knobs, faders, a great screen, weighs a ton and has weighted action keys... got it used for a few hundred bucks. Best deal in awhile although I'd love for one of the new Akai's to take it's place if they ever wake up and make it...

If you can find a Keystation Pro 88 it's a super deal...


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## jononotbono

How is the Doepfer LMK4+?

I've noticed lot's of professionals use one.

I was actually really excited and the NI Kontrol S Keyboard to begin with but after I realizing that there's not an 88 note version, that's not fully weighted and the Lightguide didn't work with 3rd Party (non NI) Libraries, the excitement soon waned. Although the Light Guide is a great idea!

Now I just want something fully weighted, with a Great Hammer Action, full sized, a few faders, couple of modwheels and a few buttons. The Doepfer looks like it fits that bill and I really can't be bothered to buy anymore Plastic feeling controllers that play like rubbish.


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## G.R. Baumann

I am torn between different beasts and price ranges. LMK4, MP7, MP11 and VPC-1.


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## Guy Rowland

This is all a fantastic way of starting a rumour. There has been speculation for some time that NI will introduce an 88 note version, but speculation is all it has ever been. I think we'd have heard some more about it if it had been at some trade show or something.

In general, that range seemed a real missed opportunity - the knobs an labels are clear but 8 still isn't nearly enough for programming; the whizzy lights only work when used via the (awful) Kontrol software; the "wheels" are a hellish idea and the range is relatively expensive unless you get value out of the bundled software (which existing Komplete owners won't... or is there some kind of crossgrade deal for them?). Their biggest strength is they seem to have good quality semi-weighted keys, which is a rarity. If - and it's a big if - an 88 note version appeared and they resisted the temptation to put a heavy clunker of a weighted keyboard in its place, it would be of interest for that reason alone.

I'd hear mixed things about the LX88, but the reports here seem a lot more positive. Might be time to give it a try, as I still loathe my es88.


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## Killiard

Eeeck. Hope I wasn't supposed to be keeping my mouth shut. NI were co sponsoring a booze up for the company I get equipment through / tech support etc. It looked exactly the same as the 61 key, included the silly ribbon mod wheel thingy (sorry guy).

The only other detail he said was that it was a fatar keybed. It actually felt quite good, though there was also a free bar so I may have been coloured by booze 
Definitely not making it up though. They even made a comment that last year when they introduced the 61 key everyone said "it's nice but where's the 88 key version".


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## Guy Rowland

Well in that case you've made a very timely leak knowing this is on the horizon. Fatar make both weighted and semi-weighted 88 note keys - were you sober enough to know which one this was?


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## Killiard

I understand the conundrum of believing a Scotsman at an event with a free bar 
Sadly I don't know for sure. Only that it felt noticeably heavier than my LX88. Sorry if I've been vague!


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## jononotbono

After trying an iPad to control CC Faders I'm not convinced the Touch Strips on the Kontrol S would be suitable for me so physical Modwheels and faders are what I want on a controller. If they included this as well as the Touch Strips that would be a very good decision (IMO). Has anyone tried them for controlling CC data with non NI Libraries?


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## Guy Rowland

Killiard said:


> I understand the conundrum of believing a Scotsman at an event with a free bar
> Sadly I don't know for sure. Only that it felt noticeably heavier than my LX88. Sorry if I've been vague!



One final pestering question - when you say it felt heavier, I guess you're referring to the action, not the literal weight of the keyboard itself?

Just looked again at the LX88 - I think the negatives for me are too negative. I don't want any of the stuff that they put in the way (I rest a nanokey for keyswitches there) and the wheels are too small and in the wrong place - I think I'm too hard-wired by now to need them properly left of keyboard. I think I'm destined to stay with this awful es88 for a while yet.


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## Killiard

Yeah the action. Not sure how the rep would have felt about me trying to lift it up 

I use five faders on the lx88. Four are my spitfire mic controls and the other is the Kontakt volume. I use a nanocontrol for mod wheel etc. I think I'm probably looking for the same thing as you Guy - a decent semi weighted 88 key controller without trillions of knobs and pads.


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## muk

Never understood why Doepfer keyboards are so popular. They use the exact same Fatar keybeds as many other brands, but sell it for twice the price. I guess it must be the sturdy case and reliability, because they are not actually parading a wealth of additional features either.
If you want the best keybed you can get (best as in 'as close to a real piano as possible') you won't find that in any midi controller. You have to look at digitalpianos. Of course they don't come with modwheels and sliders, so you will have to add them separately (I use a Tec Breath Controller for most anything now. A Korg nanokontrol would be another option). Instead, they are focused on the feel of the keys.
A good lower cost alternative - digital pianos are usually more expensive than midi controllers - is the Roland A800. It uses the same keybed as the FP 4F digital piano. It's not their top of the range dp, but it felt better under my hands than any Fatar keybed I tried. Also you can look in the Casio Privia range, which features some inexpensive models with acceptable keybeds.

In any event, before you buy a keyboard test all possible options thoroughly in the stores. Play the keys for some time. Preferences vary widely, and only you can decide which keybed suits you the best.


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## jononotbono

muk said:


> Never understood why Doepfer keyboards are so popular. They use the exact same Fatar keybeds as many other brands, but sell it for twice the price. I guess it must be the sturdy case and reliability, because they are not actually parading a wealth of additional features either.
> .



Reliability is definitely something I am happy to pay for and a controller not being packed with features is no bad thing (less to go wrong). These things could very well be why the Doepfer Controllers are so popular!? I won't know till I try one so am definitely interested in hearing from others what their stuff is like! I don't live anywhere close to try any out sadly!


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## synthpunk

Arturia Keylab 88 is pretty nice. $999 u.s.
http://www.arturia.com/products/hybrid-synths/keylab88


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## Walid F.

Hey! Haven't read through all of the thread, but check out the video review I made of Nektar's LX88. I think it's a real solid piece of kit for that money (RRP @ $299)!! Lightweight, has most of what I need (no expression pedal though), and real smooth curves with every knob, wheel and slider.

Here ya go!



Good luck!

W.

EDIT: Sorry! Just saw that the link was provided already! Hope you found it somewhat useful then!


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## Bunford

Walid F. said:


> Hey! Haven't read through all of the thread, but check out the video review I made of Nektar's LX88. I think it's a real solid piece of kit for that money (RRP @ $299)!! Lightweight, has most of what I need (no expression pedal though), and real smooth curves with every knob, wheel and slider.
> 
> Here ya go!
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> W.
> 
> EDIT: Sorry! Just saw that the link was provided already! Hope you found it somewhat useful then!



Yeah it was! I've taken a punt on it and ordered a couple of days ago. Arriving tomorrow


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## Walid F.

Bunford said:


> Yeah it was! I've taken a punt on it and ordered a couple of days ago. Arriving tomorrow



Brilliant! You'll enjoy it for sure.  So damn cheap haha!

W.


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## synthpunk

What piano library are you using btw Walid ? TX



Walid F. said:


> Brilliant! You'll enjoy it for sure.  So damn cheap haha!
> 
> W.


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## Walid F.

Check them out here! Great stuff. http://www.imperfectsamples.com/website/Samples/fazioliconcertgrand/index.php

W.


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## proxima

muk said:


> If you want the best keybed you can get (best as in 'as close to a real piano as possible') you won't find that in any midi controller. You have to look at digitalpianos. Of course they don't come with modwheels and sliders, so you will have to add them separately (


Stage pianos tend to have modwheels and pitch wheels but usually not sliders. Of course, neither does the common Doepfer model.


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## NYC Composer

Love the look and feel of my Arturia Keylab 88. $799 street. Got it for $700 open box.


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## JohnG

Well, I bought the Doepfer LMK4+ Some say it's over priced, but I looked at a lot of rubbish out there and this is working "real good."


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## Kaufmanmoon

Walid F. said:


> Check them out here! Great stuff. http://www.imperfectsamples.com/website/Samples/fazioliconcertgrand/index.php
> 
> W.



As seen on here and Gearslutz, this company has had so many problems with people not receiving download links after purchasing. Earlier in the year they've now been "taken over" on the website side of things and must admit i've not seen a new complaint since.
His piano's are very raw sounding in a good way.
Back to topic, I've not heard of the Aturia before but had seen plenty on their new audio fuse interface.
Off to look at reviews


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## NYC Composer

Arturia-nicely weighted. Beautiful looking. Not the cheapest. Wheels are top left-a bit of a reach, the most inconvenient thing for me. Lots of knobs and sliders, which feel solid and sturdy. 16 pads, which I haven't used up til now, not sure I ever will. Smallish LED screen, wish it could be bigger. Very lightweight for an 88 key weighted, about 28 lbs, I believe. Comes with an Arturia licensed bundle of synths that I haven't downloaded and a couple of pianos, sadly in software only-the keyboard retains no sounds from the synth package or the pianos. Includes clear snap-in music stand.

Overall, more bells and whistles than I needed and a few inconveniences, but a very solid feeling pleasurable controller and over the past few months, I've been happy I bought it.


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## Bunford

I did look at the Arturia as they have a pretty nice looking black model now (But only the 49 and 61 key versions I think). However, at 3 times the price of the Nektar, not sure I could justify it for my use as I rarely use bells and whistles and tend to get along better with more basic and straightforward keyboards.


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## NYC Composer

I play piano. After the M Audio Keystation Pro 88, I wanted something better, and I need 88 keys. This is better.


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## muk

If you want to know which keybed a certain model uses here is a list:

http://www.musiker-board.de/threads/verbaute-tastaturen-sammelthread.435157/

The Studiologic Acuna, and Numa Nano, the Kurzweil Artis/Artis SE, and the Viscount Physis K5 all use the same keybed as the Arturia, for example. It's quite handy if you are looking for alternatives.


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## NYC Composer

arturia-$799 street. Look at the prices of the alternatives for a true comparison.


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## Guy Rowland

muk said:


> If you want to know which keybed a certain model uses here is a list:
> 
> http://www.musiker-board.de/threads/verbaute-tastaturen-sammelthread.435157/
> 
> The Studiologic Acuna, and Numa Nano, the Kurzweil Artis/Artis SE, and the Viscount Physis K5 all use the same keybed as the Arturia, for example. It's quite handy if you are looking for alternatives.



Interesting thread, thanks - shame it's focused mainly on synths it seems and not controllers (no cursed M Audio as far as I can see). From a search around, the only Fatar 88 note semi-weighted keyboard they make is called the tp/7ba, and I can't find a single keyboard that uses it (lots use the smaller variations). Someone bung it in a case, put two wheels on the left hand side and ship it already...


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## muk

Found another list:

http://billfulton.com/music-news/fatar-keyboard-and-other-actions/

Guy, the Studiologic Numa Compact doesn't cut it because of the modwheel/pitchbend I suppose? It's the only keyboard using the tp / 7ba I could find. Maybe the Miditech i2 Stage-88 is an alternative? I couldn't find out which keybed it uses though.


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## Jan16

The problem I have with the 88 key Akai and Arturia is that they both have noisy keybeds.

The LX88 seems to be quieter, but I worry a bit about the remark Walid made in the video, namely that there is a disparity between the black and white keys and how they respond to the way you play.
The problem with adjusting your way of playing is that you develop a habit of playing which is ideally suited for the LX88, but which you have to unlearn the moment you play another keyboard.

Other than that it looks like great value for the money, and it is semi-weighted which is a plus when it comes to playing synths and organs. If the mentioned disparity really isn't much of an issue I'm tempted to buy this controller.

However, reading about a possible Kontrol S88 made me almost fall out of my chair, since it is the ideal companion to Komplete Ultimate. I think I'll wait until NI announces more details.


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## JohnG

There are a lot of really cheap, noisy ("clack-clack-clack"), rickety-feeling keyboards out there. I tried a lot of them before splashing for the Doepfer. Some have joysticks instead of mod wheels, some are just loud, some are very uneven, some are not 88 keys. Some are too much like a regular piano feel for me to want to use all day / night. I have a piano and it's wonderful but not as a controller.

If you are a hobbyist I totally get it; wouldn't pay so much. It seems though that many of the keyboards available are competing to have the "largest number of buttons / keys / pads per dollar." 

I'm also not clear on whether you get the same quality even if a keyboard nominally has the same key bed as another. I checked some out that supposedly had the same key bed and they felt different.


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## Bunford

JohnG said:


> It seems though that many of the keyboards available are competing to have the "largest number of buttons / keys / pads per dollar."



I totally agree with this! It's like a challenge to have as many stuff as possible. My previous keyboard was an Akai MPK49. Not too bad keybed, if slightly overly springy action that wore finger out after a bit, but had a ton of other distracting features that I NEVER used.

This is one of the reason I have gone for the LX88 as it has subtle, non-imposing features that blend into the keyboard nicely. I may use them, maybe not. Unlike the MPK49 though, they are not in your face and distracting!

Anyway, my LX88 has just been delivered at home and I will be there in a couple of hours so can check back with my initial impressions


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## Reaktor

I have lx88 and I can confirm issue with black and white keys. I'v been having dialog with Nektartech over firmware update, but at this time its still open wheter issue will be solved with upgrade.

Its an irritating issue, but other than that lx88 is great bang for buck with bunch of features and great keybed (for the price). I'd guess that SL990 would be great buy (hammer action), but it doesnt include any midi controls other than few buttons and mod + pitch wheel... so basically you would need to buy separate midi controller for faders and knobs.


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## Guy Rowland

muk said:


> Found another list:
> 
> http://billfulton.com/music-news/fatar-keyboard-and-other-actions/
> 
> Guy, the Studiologic Numa Compact doesn't cut it because of the modwheel/pitchbend I suppose? It's the only keyboard using the tp / 7ba I could find. Maybe the Miditech i2 Stage-88 is an alternative? I couldn't find out which keybed it uses though.



Yeah, those Numa controls are especially hideous, aren't they? I've not seen the Miditech before - not ideal placement of the wheels but I might just cope. I prefer the layout of that to the LX88. Any reviews or feedback anywhere?


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## Jan16

I found two links (here and here) to the upcoming Kontrol S88.
I wonder how long it will take for Akai to come up with the Advance 88, perhaps with a semi-weighted action?


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## Guy Rowland

Thanks Jan - 1,000 euros, with those horrible wheel replacements and software I already own a better version of is quite an ask. Have to say I hate the look of the Advance as well... it's a circus, no labels above the knobs and wheels in the wrong place.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - all I want is an M Audio es88, but built properly. In the words of Basil Fawlty, I may as well ask for an elephant's ear on a bun.


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## Pietro

I'm totally with the same expectations and wishes, Guy. A fine replacement for the Keystation 88ES.

I heard those Kontrol touch faders feel horrible. Probably close to the ones on Steinberg CMC series faders. Not good for the fingers.

On the other hand, I feel like I might also get the 25 keys Seaboard Rise, as I feel it could become a nice controller for synths, pads and solo lines.

- Piotr


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## jononotbono

1000 Euros? Man, I've been waiting to see what the Kontrol S 88 will be like but, no way am I buying it for that price and instead my money is going on a Doepfer LM4K+. The Lightguide was actually the only thing that interested me with the Kontrol S Keyboards but after some thought, the Greatest Music on Earth has been written without it so I'm not fussed about that anymore. Maybe I will buy a K61 secondhand in the future just to have a synth action Keyboard as well as a Master Keyboard. Time will tell.


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## muk

Found one review about the Swissonic, but only the 49 keys version. It's in german, but I'll summarize it's keypoints:

"good, solid 'Synth'-keybed"

"Doesn't have to hide from the competition. Features a good, playable keybed, and an overall sturdy case"

"The faderbank is viable, but the fader caps fall off easily. Glue them on with superglue"

If the Swissonic ControlKey 88 fails too, the only other option I see would be sacrificing modwheel/pitchbend and go with a Studiologic VMK88 or similar. Maybe modwheel/pitchbend can be bought separately here?

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2012/02/synthwood-custom-sequential-circuits.html?m=1


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## synthpunk

Just throwing the Infinite Response Kickstarter out there again. Van had to have surgery this summer so it's a bit behind schedule, but I believe will be a great "feeling and expressive" controller if you can live without some of the other bits.


http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2...i-controller-ever-is-about-to-get-affordable/


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## Jan16

Well, I don't know.
Although I would have preferred a semi-weighted action, my biggest gripe with the Kontrol S series was the absence of an 88 keys version, and even to this day I cannot understand why NI did not release an 88 keys version on day 1.
I like the idea behind the Kontrol series, even though I think the controllers could be improved in a number of ways, and now that finally an 88 key model is available I'll be looking forward to reading more about it.
I have to say that I'm inclined to get one.

At the same time I am also hoping that FINALLY a company will realize that there is a demand for a really good, well-built high-quality semi-weighted 88 keys controller.


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## mushanga

Guy Rowland said:


> I've said it before, and I'll say it again - all I want is an M Audio es88, but built properly. In the words of Basil Fawlty, I may as well ask for an elephant's ear on a bun.


Hi Guy - have you checked out the M-Audio Keystation 88 II?
http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/keystation-88#.Vhld9ZR4WrU


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## mickeyl

As there are more and more indicators of the S88 now, let's see soon how good its fatar hammer action keybed is.


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## Guy Rowland

Matt Taylor said:


> Hi Guy - have you checked out the M-Audio Keystation 88 II?
> http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/keystation-88#.Vhld9ZR4WrU



Word on the street is that they still forgot to build it properly.


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## mushanga

Guy Rowland said:


> Word on the street is that they still forgot to build it properly.


I'd be interested to know where you read that as am currently in the market for a simple, light, no frills 88 key midi keyboard and this one seems to fit my requirements perfectly.


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## ed buller

I love it

e


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## Pietro

Matt Taylor said:


> I'd be interested to know where you read that as am currently in the market for a simple, light, no frills 88 key midi keyboard and this one seems to fit my requirements perfectly.



Isn't that basically the same thing with just an extra couple of buttons and a horribly dark blueish color case?

- Piotr


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## Guy Rowland

Matt Taylor said:


> I'd be interested to know where you read that as am currently in the market for a simple, light, no frills 88 key midi keyboard and this one seems to fit my requirements perfectly.



It could have been comments here a year ago... Another forum.... Can't remember. I'd be surprised if they'd improved their QC and it's remained a secret all this time. I do think there's likely an element of luck to it... both my units have had specific, but different, problems. Maybe third time would be the charm? Or maybe not.

And Piotr - yes.


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## mushanga

Guy Rowland said:


> I'd be surprised if they'd improved their QC and it's remained a secret all this time. I do think there's likely an element of luck to it... both my units have had specific, but different, problems. Maybe third time would be the charm? Or maybe not.


Hmm...the Keystation 88 II does look awfully similar to the Alesis Q88, which l think has been discontinued. Wonder if they share the same chassis..


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## Guy Rowland

Matt Taylor said:


> Hmm...the Keystation 88 II does look awfully similar to the Alesis Q88, which l think has been discontinued. Wonder if they share the same chassis..



Indeed they do as I understand (and build quality problems, sadly).


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## mushanga

Guy Rowland said:


> Indeed they do as I understand (and build quality problems, sadly).


What are the issues with build quality?


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## Guy Rowland

Matt Taylor said:


> What are the issues with build quality?



Many and varied. For me, my first es88 had the modwheel start sending wild midi data after a year or so. My second has a charming habit of sending out many of the notes at a duration of 1 millisecond when you really whack the keys. Just do a forum search here or anywhere really... they're pretty notorious. The keyboard itself sure isn't brilliant - tough to play soft stuff in particular - but I'd live with it if I knew I was going to get a reliable unit.

Incidentally, I did send this most recent one back, but they returned it saying there was nothing wrong with it.


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## Pietro

Matt Taylor said:


> Hmm...the Keystation 88 II does look awfully similar to the Alesis Q88, which l think has been discontinued. Wonder if they share the same chassis..



Alesis Q88 is in fact the very same thing as othe riginal Keystation 88ES but in black chassis. Maybe bundled software, which most of us don't even care about is also different.

For me the quality issues have mostly to do with uneven keys (same press force, different results for different keys), squeeking noise (from the springs), modwheel continuously sending random data. And the chasis overall feels like you could break it on your knee .

Edit: Ah and yes, the "ghost notes", which happen when you play short or heavy stuff. The key springs back after releasing and it sends another short keypress.

It's surprising it still has no actual competition in the same simple form and function. Apart from the clones.

- Piotr


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## ed buller

mine was the same...mod wheel became sentient and wanted to solo all the time....D above middle C would ( on about every 18th strike ) go to full velocity.......binned it. 

e


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## Bunford

Looks like the Kontrol 88 could be a game changer with the 1.5 update. Seems like NI have created a new plugin format that will allow non-NI libraries to utilise the Kontrol keyboard's features. Looks like they have got all the major library makers on board too!


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## reddognoyz

http://www.native-instruments.com/e...b=KOMPLETE+t=Release_PD&utm_source=newsletter


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## Jan16

Bunford said:


> Looks like the Kontrol 88 could be a game changer with the 1.5 update. Seems like NI have created a new plugin format that will allow non-NI libraries to utilise the Kontrol keyboard's features. Looks like they have got all the major library makers on board too!


They have _some_ onboard already, and that's a good sign. Hopefully more will follow soon.
The new S88 looks interesting, and I'm looking forward to trying it out to see what the keybed feels like. One store mentioned it would be available October 27th, so if that date is correct we should not have to wait too long.

I did notice that in the commercial for the S88 the announcer put the emphasis at one point rather awkwardly, thereby creating a suggestion which I'm sure the NI team did not intend: 'Designed for TRUE composers and pianists', as if those who use the current 61 keys are not _true_ composers.


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## Guy Rowland

Urgh.

Urge urgh urgh.

With each update of Kontrol, my disappointment grows ever more acute. A big bells and whistles update, and - unless they just forgot to mention it - STILL an almost medieval implementation of a tag browser. Still no way of searching a group of libraries - it's one or all, nothing in between. Still no way of ordering results by plugin, so you can eliminate most of the 10 second waits between patches as you scroll through. Still no way of even SEEING what instrument a preset belongs to, so you could do that manually. It's utterly baffling... does anyone at NI even try to actually use this stuff in practice? And I presume you'd need to load any instrument through the Kontrol software to use the bells and whistles - add up that resource demand across your template.

Oh, and then the killer - the S88 is weighted. Again. And still has those awful fake wheels.

Hugely disappointed. This whole Kontrol endeavour is starting to feel like a great white elephant.


----------



## Ozymandias

Meet the new Fatar, same as the old Fatar.


----------



## samphony

jononotbono said:


> How is the Doepfer LMK4+?
> 
> I've noticed lot's of professionals use one.
> 
> I was actually really excited and the NI Kontrol S Keyboard to begin with but after I realizing that there's not an 88 note version, that's not fully weighted and the Lightguide didn't work with 3rd Party (non NI) Libraries, the excitement soon waned. Although the Light Guide is a great idea!
> 
> Now I just want something fully weighted, with a Great Hammer Action, full sized, a few faders, couple of modwheels and a few buttons. The Doepfer looks like it fits that bill and I really can't be bothered to buy anymore Plastic feeling controllers that play like rubbish.



I'm using the LMK4+. Top controller, great hammer action.


----------



## jononotbono

samphony said:


> I'm using the LMK4+. Top controller, great hammer action.



Can't wait to get one! It will be just after this Christmas as I have invested a lot into upgrading some of my Music Gear this Summer and need to recharge the Piggy Jar!


----------



## synthpunk

The LMK-4+ at 2K u.s. street is overpriced IMO.


----------



## jononotbono

aesthete said:


> The LMK-4+ at 2K u.s. street is overpriced IMO.



In the UK it is £1,015.39 which is about $1500, so yeah, $2k is overpriced!


----------



## synthpunk

That's a bit better. Perhaps the import fees, etc. to the U.S. add onto the price ?
http://www.analoguehaven.com/doepfer/lmk4/

Glad I will have a 8 octave ply aftertouch VAX77 coming next year for about $700.



The NI is a mystery really, touch strips instead of wheels ? 2 Wheels would about about $50 onto the cost of production and no sliders. But alomost everything is about margains these days.



jononotbono said:


> In the UK it is £1,015.39 which is about $1500, so yeah, $2k is overpriced!


----------



## muk

aesthete said:


> The LMK-4+ at 2K u.s. street is overpriced IMO.



It must be the reliability that you pay for, because the exact same keybed can be found in much cheaper masterkeyboards (Studiologic VMK 188 Plus, roughly 500€/Studiologic SL-990, 400€). But maybe the Doepfer last's twice as long.


----------



## chimuelo

It's reliability but features that raise costs.
The Physis isn't for everyone but sure was for me.
Features many here will never need and probably never heard of.
If you can think of a function in your head the K4 will transform reroute just about anything via MIDI x 10 or the built in USB 3 hub.


----------



## AllanH

I ended up with a Kurzeil PC3LE8 as I really like the fatar TP40L action. If you prefer weighted hammer action, most of the midi controllers are not good fits. The benefit of having a real synth is also that you can play without needing the computer turned on. Today, I would start with an Kurzweil Artis to see how it plays (different Fatar TP100).

I first tried an inexpensive M-Audio midi controller, but it was just too painful to play.

Let me add, that I generally record midi directly into the DAW from the Kurz, and only edit with the computer to adjust smaller inconsistencies, so good keys are important to me.


----------



## Mystic

aesthete said:


> Glad I will have a 8 octave ply aftertouch VAX77 coming next year for about $700.


I'm still holding off on that one. It looks interesting but I want to make sure that it's solid all around before pumping $700 into it. It looks pretty awesome but I'm still on the fence.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm really liking my Arturia Keylab 88. Everything except wheel placement, really.
Handsome vintage looking beast, too!


----------



## chimuelo

Right on Larry.
Here's my favorite atm.
I have 4 now. They differ in action and purpose.
But the K4 does everything well.
128 x 4 scenes covers vocal FX, lights and my needs currently.


----------



## NYC Composer

For your needs it looks awesome. Totally rad.


----------



## chimuelo

Cant wait to record some Scores with automations then delete the parts I want to play.
The Sheep will be tricked just like the old MC500 MKII days...


----------



## Takabuntu

A few years ago I bought a used M-Audio Keystation Pro 88es, which I'm still using. It's a very basic MIDI keyboard, but so was the price  Works great, but if you want more like knobs or faders on the keyboard you have to look further.


----------



## slidemasterx

I'm loving my Nektar LX61 so I guess the LX88 would be just as good.


----------



## benatural

I use a Roland RD 700NX. Love the feel of the action.


----------



## Nachivnik

FWIW, I went around testing keybeds, and my favorite action was the Roland RD-800 stage piano. Second favorite (and close) is the balance hammer action of the Yamaha Motif and s90 series of 88 key keyboards. Any of them. I didn't like the Graded Hammer Standard (GHS) that you can get on the MOXF8 and Yamaha digital pianos. Wasn't fond of the Arturia 88 key. So, the long and short of it is that I think I only like two rather expensive options.  I may as well loathe the Keystation 88es I own rather than regret yet another purchase that still doesn't meet my desires, at least until I am willing to buy either the Roland or Yamaha best options. As I said, FWIW.

Also, I did not like the difference between the white and black keys on the Nektar LX88. I found the black keys too difficult to depress in relation to the white keys. If they all had the same feel as the white keys, I would have kept it.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Nachivnik said:


> Also, I did not like the difference between the white and black keys on the Nektar LX88. I found the black keys too difficult to depress in relation to the white keys. If they all had the same feel as the white keys, I would have kept it.



I tried it last week at the London music expo. Same feeling - I was always getting higher velocities when hitting the black notes. Shame - I could live with the wheels I think and the keyboard certainly felt better, but I'm reluctant to buy another keyboard I know I'll be dissatisfied is, so I may as well stay grumbling with the es88 til someone makes one properly.

Incidentally, I loathed the NI Kontrol S88, but that's to be expected from semi-weighted-me really. The Seaboard Rise was like playing seaweed.


----------



## spoon

Hi 
I bought an used Kawai MP6 three weeks ago and I really really love it. I used a M-Audio keystation 61ES before.
The MP6 makes me wanna play and study the piano.
Marco


----------



## snowleopard

Broken record post here: Still waiting for an 88-key, semi-weighted, with aftertouch, and actual wheels on the left. Will pay good money if it's done right. Any manufacturer who sees this, feel free to spam me directly when you've made this, I have my VISA card in hand.

To be more candid, while I completely, fully understand the desire for hammer action keys for piano players, even those who are born and bread on the piano; For synthesists, and/or those of us who play a lot of sounds like slow attack pads, quick percussion, soft brass or strings, or any number of other synth sounds, hammer action keys are actually a hindrance compared to semi-weighted keys. It baffles me that these companies like NI or Arturia can't seem to make this connection.


----------



## edhamilton

snowleopard said:


> Broken record post here: Still waiting for an 88-key, semi-weighted, with aftertouch, and actual wheels on the left. Will pay good money if it's done right. Any manufacturer who sees this, feel free to spam me directly when you've made this, I have my VISA card in hand.
> 
> To be more candid, while I completely, fully understand the desire for hammer action keys for piano players, even those who are born and bread on the piano, for synthesists, and/or those of us who play a lot of sounds like slow attack pads, quick percussion, soft brass or strings, or any number of other synth sounds, hammer action keys are actually a hindrance compared to semi-weighted keys. It baffles me that these companies like NI or Arturia can't seem to make this connection.



A BIG +1


----------



## woodslanding

Well, I've been playing casio keybeds for the past dozen years, and I basically like them. They are a bit mushy, but you can get the full dynamic range--fatar keybeds give me a 127 when I've still got a couple/three 'f's left, same with Kurzweil. And consistently playing at mf is impossible. You've got soft and loud, don't ask for anything in between please. And casio will keep you strong, so you don't feel like a wimp when you sit down at a Kawai Grand.

Yamaha are a little lighter, and bottom out better. I found a cheap KX8, and will probably build something around that soon. It's the same action in all Yamaha's midrange DPs. It's good, but not as light,compact, or sturdy as the casio.

Some roland DPs are good, some are horrible. I just did a miserable set of sessions with one of the new fancy roland controllers. I ended up bringing the KX8 in, just so I didn't have to edit the velocity on every note.

Some people like a compromise action, which sounds great in theory. It's never worked for me. I always have both a weighted and an unweighted keyboard with me.

I'll be curious to try Van's kickstarter board when it comes in. Seems like he is doing it right, although I never played the original VAX.

But this is one place where a brick and mortar store is nice. Everybody plays differently, and you've got to try before you buy.


----------



## Jan16

snowleopard said:


> Broken record post here: Still waiting for an 88-key, semi-weighted, with aftertouch, and actual wheels on the left. Will pay good money if it's done right. Any manufacturer who sees this, feel free to spam me directly when you've made this, I have my VISA card in hand.
> 
> To be more candid, while I completely, fully understand the desire for hammer action keys for piano players, even those who are born and bread on the piano; For synthesists, and/or those of us who play a lot of sounds like slow attack pads, quick percussion, soft brass or strings, or any number of other synth sounds, hammer action keys are actually a hindrance compared to semi-weighted keys. It baffles me that these companies like NI or Arturia can't seem to make this connection.


Another +1.

Nektar is working on a high end 88 keys controller, but it is still in the concept stage, and I don't know if it will be weighted or semi-weighted.
When it comes to a really good semi-weighted 88 keys variety: we're still waiting.
Maybe M-Audio will come with something; I heard a couple of good reports about the Code series, so who knows.

Unfortunately 88 keys automatically seems to translate in '(noisy, clunky) weighted hammer action' with most companies, while in fact weighted and semi-weighted actions are two entirely different animals for different purposes.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Weighted and semi - weighted has always been a bit of a conundrum for keyboard players. The best semi weighted or sprung action I ever had was on a Kurzweil K2000. Wish I'd kept it. The worst wrist breaking weighted action I had was on a Korg. 
One of the great keyboard actions is the waterfall action of the Hammond B3. 

But it's horses for course because you don't want a waterfall action for a piano sound and so on.

A lot of it depends on your hand action and how advanced it is and how slow or fast you want to play versus how fast you can actually play.


----------



## josefsnabb

I am aware of that this thread initially requested only cheap keyboards, but I want to share anyway for those of you that are into buying a slighty more expensive 88keys with requirements on the proper feeling and performance to get close to the real piano.

I recently was looking for a full 88keys with graded hammer keys with great feeling and realism, and I also wanted modulation/pitch wheel but that seemed impossible to find. All midi-keyboards (such as M-Audio Oxygen88 and similar), with wheels had poor weighted keys and feel (IMHO), and the digital pianos which had great keys did not have wheels. So I decided to go for both a digital piano and a smaller midi-keyboard (also because the advantage for using controllers to the sequencer).

Started out trying a lot of different boards, but landed mostly on Yamaha boards, like the P-45 (430$) which was okay, good board for the price but not enough or what I wanted. Tried the next level Yamaha P-115 (600$) and this one I experienced as a lot better, keys and feeling was great, but I thought that playing quick melodies was not ideal, the keys actually felt too heavy and did not catch up with my playing, it was slowing me down. Then, as a pokemon, I leveled up once more and spent time with the Yamaha P-255 (1300$) which I instantly LOVED. Perfectly weighted keys with superior feel, and playing fast was not a problem at all, smooth as a shaved butt. It was indeed expensive but worth it. Playing this with the EWQL Gold Pianos is like a dream 

For midi-keyboard I bought a Alesis VI49 for the mod/pitch-wheel, and was not able to try it out before the purchase. The keys are quite poor but it does not matter for me, will only use it for recording simple stuff and as a Daw-controller and pad. The mod-wheel has a great feel to it and it does have aftertouch, which P-255 does not so they complete eachother quite well. Also it is good to have a portable keyboard as well, to be able to have a mobile set up. So I am happy.












Cheers.
/Josef


----------



## mickeyl

I just stumbled over the new Studiologic SL88 grand – with its tp40wood and three joysticks (ideal for simultaneously controlling e.g. Expression and Vibrato) it sounds like an interesting alternative to the Komplete Kontrol S88 - it's also in the same price range. Anyone has any opinions about that?


----------



## Morodiene

The best digital piano action I've felt is Kawai's Grand Feel. I own the MP11 and it's a really good MIDI controller if you want a piano feel. I can play classical stuff on it very easily, and there's a lot of tweaking you can do in the Virtual Technician section. Of course, it's not the best if you are playing strings or organ because it's a piano action, so having two boards is really necessary, IMO.


----------



## Vastman

Akai is supposed to have under development their own Advanced-88... *I visited their forum the other night and chimed in with a few others BEGGING them to go with a semi-weighted kbd as this is a much larger market which is NOT being recognized and catered* to.

I urge ALL of you... *yes, YOU Guy*... to chime in and voice this STRONGLY... as it may influence the way they go if enough of us screech.

If I can relocate the forum, I will post a link to offer feedback here.


----------



## Vastman

ok... *for all you* out there like me wanting a high quality SEMI-WEIGHTED synth action keyboard rather than the weighted action seemingly on every decent 88, *POST DETAILED REASONS WHY THIS IS AN INSTANT BUY FOR YOU AND A ZILLION OTHERS OUT THERE FRUSTRATED WITH SO MANY CATERING TO PIANISTS...*(I'm NOT disparaging you pianists... I'm just pointing out that for the majority of us we don't have jack shit!)

This is a *direct link to Akai* forums where Akai people are present... *the next step in getting what we want is up to YOU!!!* Personally, I would LOVE an Akai Advanced... it is an amazing system and I'd pay dearly for a semi-weighted 88!

http://community.akaipro.com/akai_professional/topics/advance-88


----------



## Guy Rowland

(Edited my stupid and irrelevant post as I thought I was in a different thread. Nothing to see here, move along...)


----------



## Vastman

???


----------



## Guy Rowland

Vastman said:


> ???


Oh good lord I'm a bleary-eyed idiot - I thought I was in the Bohemian thread! Too much Christmas Bonhomie, I say. Sorry about that.

Just replied in the other Advanced thread - sadly the 88 key Advanced is not the droid I'm looking for...


----------



## Vastman

Ho Ho Ho!!! I was up with little sleep since bohemian... I understand...


----------



## Jan16

Well, it hasn't happened in 2015, maybe 2016 will be different.
Anyone with remote viewing abilities? I'm nearsighted.


----------



## mickeyl

I'm torn between the Komplete Kontrol S88 and the Studiologic SL88 Grand. Both in the same price region, but I will have to try both before deciding. The Studiologic has TP40WOOD, which has a better reputation than the NI's TP100.


----------



## Mystic

I'm holding off till after NAMM. I think there are going to be some announcements for competitors this year. Hoping to see something big from Novation.


----------



## mickeyl

True that.


----------



## Wes Antczak

At this point (unless you really really need something right now), I would just hold off and see what pops up at NAMM. Only about three weeks, I think. Perhaps Nektar will come up with something that will address the issues that have been mentioned, and perhaps there will be interesting entries from the other players in this particular field.


----------



## synthpunk

The new vaxmidi kits are now available to order (to ship in April), 6 & 8 octaves, semi weighted hammer action, poly aftertouch.

http://www.vaxmidi.com/


----------



## synthpunk

The early adopters (raises hand) will have there units in March. I would be glad to post my initial findings. Seeing Van has done this before with the Vax77 I am quite confident.



SilentBob said:


> Great news, thank you. Now I have to decide between this, the Studiologic SL88 Grand and the Physis K4 with the TP40WOOD and triple-sensor. Too sad that it will be probably not possible to test the vaxmidi personally. But I hope there will be some reviews in the near future.


----------



## chimuelo

SilentBob said:


> Great news, thank you. Now I have to decide between this, the Studiologic SL88 Grand and the Physis K4 with the TP40WOOD and triple-sensor. Too sad that it will be probably not possible to test the vaxmidi personally. But I hope there will be some reviews in the near future.



The Physis K4 is a great controller.
Best I ever had.
Thier support consists of a Stateside contractor who sends you paid postage to ship the unit in for any physical upgrades or repairs.

Go to the Keyboard Corner Forum and you'll see a few guys anxiously awaiting the 88 note 1149 USD version of the VAX.

These guys are fellow performers who can be trusted on opinions and are quite picky so if the VAX is what you want, these guys will be the first ones using them.


----------



## chimuelo

Also I turn my AES/EBU Hardware Solaris synth a Controller by running MIDI Out into MIDI In or USB Out into the Dual USB Inputs.
The gay blue is soon to be replaced with Black MetaFlake.
Got my DJ NEON Soft Rubber knobs and faders.

European and Asian manufacturers have all started using non black color schemes because they're racists basically.
Have you seen that kick ass cheap Casio PX-5S?
Great controller but the Orca the Whale color scheme is so lame.

8 x Continuos Controllers means other units you hook up via MIDI/USB can have thier own too.
I get the great AFT from Solaris, 28 inch Dual Ribbon, Joystick and ModWh.
Since I lose the physical volume knob going 48k AES/EBU the 2 x EXPs come in handy.
Portamento and Seperate Oscillator glide get a FSwitch, then sustain.

Ill never need another controller unless I start whining about graded action which I think sucks on any controller.
Well except a VAX.
2009 NAMM I could trigger 8-9 different velocity layers from the excellent KeyBed.
On the Fatar FP Wood I get 4-6 depending on which library is being used.
So I never saw a benefit from heavy action.

Makes no sense to pay extra money so your hands can just get tired quicker.


----------



## Mystic

The more I look at the VAX the more I'm interested. I thought they were only doing semi-weighted though so hearing they are doing graded hammer action makes me thrilled.


----------



## Mystic

Correction, the website is saying VAX is semi-weighted hammer. Hmm


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

G.R. Baumann said:


> I am torn between different beasts and price ranges. LMK4, MP7, MP11 and VPC-1.


I know your struggle all too well sir. I am so far settling on the LMK4+, but can't seem to find a used one anywhere :/


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

G.R. Baumann said:


> I am torn between different beasts and price ranges. LMK4, MP7, MP11 and VPC-1.



I recently purchased the mp7 and for my use it works well.( live as well as vi use)
The mp11 has the different real key/hammer system but when I tried both there is a difference but not for enough for me to choose the mp11

What I was happily surprised about is the smoothness and accuracy of the mod wheel. I was used to have to adjust cc data after midi recordings but now I only do it rarely.


----------



## chimuelo

ModWh working better comes from higher resolution.
A good sign profit is secondary....


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Silence-is-Golden said:


> I recently purchased the mp7 and for my use it works well.( live as well as vi use)
> The mp11 has the different real key/hammer system but when I tried both there is a difference but not for enough for me to choose the mp11
> 
> What I was happily surprised about is the smoothness and accuracy of the mod wheel. I was used to have to adjust cc data after midi recordings but now I only do it rarely.


My friend has the MP11 and it is a lovely piano. The keys are just unreal and the action.


----------



## synthpunk

Van says the action will be adjustable and he will have more info asap. I will pass it along as soon as I hear.



Mystic said:


> Correction, the website is saying VAX is semi-weighted hammer. Hmm


----------



## chimuelo

At NAMM 2009 they at least 3 varying levels of graded action, all using MIDI Spec #2 CC88.
0-127 sucks when you have 16+ velocity layers.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

So what is a good price to spend on a 88 MIDI Controller and what would you say is avalaible in that range?


----------



## JohnG

You can find 88 key controllers for amazingly low prices. It sort of depends on who you are, as this seven page thread attests. If you are a piano player, you may prefer a piano-like action (though not everyone does). If you are a hobbyist, your budget would presumably be lower than if you plan to play for 14 hours a day.

I would invite you to tell us more about what your intentions are and then you would get helpful suggestions.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

Well I know I want to learn to play the piano and properly as well. I played my mates MP11 and it was out of this world lovely. So I really want the fully weighted keys. I have a Yamaha P-35 right now and it is ok, but the keys are fake feeling and you can tell they are springs and not proper action. I compose from home and I was looking at the Doepfer LMK4+ but the price is well....not to be desired


----------



## JohnG

Hi Shadow -- CS Lewis fan? Me too.

This thread has many suggestions, including some for keyboards with fully weighted keys. I have a Doepfer LMK4+ which I like, but its action is not exactly that of a real piano. Either way, you may struggle to find a keyboard with satisfactory action for a price lower than the Doepfer.

Cheaper ones (actually, even some expensive ones) have uneven action across the octaves and some also suffer from the problem of sending constant trickles of cc data from the mod or pitch wheels, etc. So be careful. It's very easy to find a bargain that's not really a bargain.


----------



## synthpunk

Shadow, if you want to start on the low end, many have been pretty satisfied with the Nektar. It's not perfect but for $300 u.s. one would not expect it to be.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...7Ffs-W_HBSB-Tk9FdXvBk8iX9KOQjSjhJUaAtZr8P8HAQ

Walid who is on v.i.c. did this video review.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

JohnG said:


> Hi Shadow -- CS Lewis fan? Me too.
> 
> This thread has many suggestions, including some for keyboards with fully weighted keys. I have a Doepfer LMK4+ which I like, but its action is not exactly that of a real piano. Either way, you may struggle to find a keyboard with satisfactory action for a price lower than the Doepfer.
> 
> Cheaper ones (actually, even some expensive ones) have uneven action across the octaves and some also suffer from the problem of sending constant trickles of cc data from the mod or pitch wheels, etc. So be careful. It's very easy to find a bargain that's not really a bargain.



Wondered why you are saying about being a CS Lewis fan? Someone a while back on my soundcloud asked me that as well. Yes I am a huge lover CS Lewis, but I did not choose the name relating to him and sadly I do not know the resemblance either... enlighten me


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

aesthete said:


> Shadow, if you want to start on the low end, many have been pretty satisfied with the Nektar. It's not perfect but for $300 u.s. one would not expect it to be.
> 
> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...7Ffs-W_HBSB-Tk9FdXvBk8iX9KOQjSjhJUaAtZr8P8HAQ
> 
> Walid who is on v.i.c. did this video review.



The name is actually in reference to Psalm 23 :D


----------



## JohnG

There was a biographical movie, called "Shadowlands," about CS Lewis that no doubt took its title from the psalm (although I never figured the reference to that word, which doesn't appear as such in any version of that psalm I've heard). Paradoxically, considering he was such a lively, witty, inventive person, I remember the biography being wooden and dull.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

JohnG said:


> There was a biographical movie, called "Shadowlands," about CS Lewis that no doubt took its title from the psalm (although I never figured the reference to that word, which doesn't appear as such in any version of that psalm I've heard). Paradoxically, considering he was such a lively, witty, inventive person, I remember the biography being wooden and dull.


Ah, enlightened I have become. Well I took it from walking through the valley of the shadow of death. And then changed that to land of the shadows...Shad0wLands


----------



## JohnG

Sounds serious. Glad you are still with us.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

JohnG said:


> Sounds serious. Glad you are still with us.


Oh no, I do not mean I walked through the valley of death. It is from the Psalm. Woah, that got heavy there for a second


----------



## JohnG

I recognized the quotation; thought maybe you had been in armed services somewhere.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK

JohnG said:


> I recognized the quotation; thought maybe you had been in armed services somewhere.


Oh hahahah. No not me. I couldn't ever do that


----------



## Polarity

Nice old thread.
I was looking for an 88-key master with lighter (and faster) keys than my actual Oberheim MC2000.
Cheap options, max about 400 euros... and not hammered weighted.

Any infos about the updated Nektar model Impact LX88 plus?
Does anyone know if they fixed the black keys velocity difference (respect to white keys) in the new model?
By the way seems the Plus model still doesn't have aftertouch... 

Swissonic ControlKey 88: anyone has it? or tried it? Opinions?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Polarity said:


> Nice old thread.
> I was looking for an 88-key master with lighter (and faster) keys than my actual Oberheim MC2000.
> Cheap options, max about 400 euros... and not hammered weighted.
> 
> Any infos about the updated Nektar model Impact LX88 plus?
> Does anyone know if they fixed the black keys velocity difference (respect to white keys) in the new model?
> By the way seems the Plus model still doesn't have aftertouch...
> 
> Swissonic ControlKey 88: anyone has it? or tried it? Opinions?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I recently bought the LX88+. It has a semi-weighted action that I find fast but not too light, definitely some resistance. It doesn't seem that they fixed the black key velocity issue but I'm getting used to it. It doesn't have aftertouch, BUT it does allow you to assign aftertouch to any of the controllers so you can send it from the unit.

Overall, for the price point a great value...


----------



## Maximvs

Polarity said:


> Nice old thread.
> I was looking for an 88-key master with lighter (and faster) keys than my actual Oberheim MC2000.
> Cheap options, max about 400 euros... and not hammered weighted.
> 
> Any infos about the updated Nektar model Impact LX88 plus?
> Does anyone know if they fixed the black keys velocity difference (respect to white keys) in the new model?
> By the way seems the Plus model still doesn't have aftertouch...
> 
> Swissonic ControlKey 88: anyone has it? or tried it? Opinions?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



In the same situation as you Polarity, been looking around for quite sometimes for a lightweight 88-note controller, been considering the Nektar LX88 but in the end discarded it as the velocity difference is not something I can get used to... back to the drawing board sort of speak... it is disappointing that winter NAMM didn't reveal anything interesting.
I really feel that there is a hole in the market for good quality lightweight 88-note controllers...

Cheers, Max


----------



## Killiard

I'm curious to see how this one turns out...


----------



## Mystic

Hmm 88 keys semi-weighted. I might have to look into that one. And $199... with aluminum.


----------



## Vastman

link to the icon 8x looks great but no aftertouch it appears.


----------



## Killiard

10 points if you can find what's wrong with their main product picture.


----------



## Mystic

Killiard said:


> 10 points if you can find what's wrong with their main product picture.


No wheels. Wonder if this was an earlier concept photo of what they put out. I'm okay with no ribbon controls. I prefer wheels. The model in the video looks like it has one long ribbon control on it which I'm fine with.


----------



## Killiard

Move your attention to the keys on the last couple of octaves...


----------



## Jdiggity1

Killiard said:


> Move your attention to the keys on the last couple of octaves...


game changer


----------



## Silence-is-Golden

Killiard said:


> 10 points if you can find what's wrong with their main product picture.


;D that indeed is a verry funny mistake.

someone's photoshop chops , or keyboard knowledge were not up to par....


----------



## Mystic

Killiard said:


> Move your attention to the keys on the last couple of octaves...


Brilliant catch. I'd have never seen that.


----------



## Lassi Tani

Killiard said:


> Move your attention to the keys on the last couple of octaves...



That's definitely a new concept!


----------



## Maximvs

Killiard said:


> I'm curious to see how this one turns out...




Hi Killiard, Thanks a lot for pointing this out... If you have a cahnce to test it out I would really appreciate a feedback report... Best regards, Max


----------



## Killiard

Someone shared it with me on another forum, and pointed out the mad photoshop skillz. I probably wouldn't have noticed it either! 

Not sure when the release here in the UK will be.

Oh and I'm not sure Stevie thinks much of it...


----------



## synthpunk

Built in alternate scales 



sekkosiki said:


> That's definitely a new concept!


----------



## Polarity

InLight-Tone said:


> I recently bought the LX88+. It has a semi-weighted action that I find fast but not too light, definitely some resistance. It doesn't seem that they fixed the black key velocity issue but I'm getting used to it. It doesn't have aftertouch, BUT it does allow you to assign aftertouch to any of the controllers so you can send it from the unit.
> 
> Overall, for the price point a great value...



Well, the chance to assign aftertouch (channel/monophonic for sure) to a MIDI CC controller is pretty interesting... and useful for my shoulders tendonitis.
I tried to do that already with mine but for some kind of mysterious bug I didn't succeed in doing that inside my Cubase. 
Recently I upgraded my (used for so many years) version but indeed I didn't think to retry it. 
Thanks for the tip. 
However a foot controller would be the best for it but Impact LX88+ has just one of that... and for sure most will use it for sustain pedal.

It's a real pity that they didn't fix the black key velocity issue.
When I have the occasion I will go to the instrument store of my city where they have a lot of 88keys master keyboards to try some of them.
Not that I'm unhappy with mine (absolutely I am not) but I would like to know if a lighter keybed can do less harm to my shoulders when I play too much (that is not too much time actually).


----------



## Polarity

Icon iKeyoboard 8: it seems there different models, with touch stripes or real wheels for pitch bend and modulation.

And I see there is also this one:
http://iconproaudio.com/product/inspire-8-g2/
But I don't read about aftertouch anywhere on it too.
At Icon must hate it perhaps! 
Does anyone have ever seen or tried it?


----------



## Polarity

Mystic said:


> No wheels. Wonder if this was an earlier concept photo of what they put out. I'm okay with no ribbon controls. I prefer wheels. The model in the video looks like it has one long ribbon control on it which I'm fine with.



look here, these ones have wheels:
http://iconproaudio.com/product/ikeyboard-8nano/
http://iconproaudio.com/product/ikeyboard-8x/
there are different models.
explore under tab "product lines" + "keyboards" and "88 keys"


----------



## Polarity

Massimo said:


> In the same situation as you Polarity, been looking around for quite sometimes for a lightweight 88-note controller, been considering the Nektar LX88 but in the end discarded it as the velocity difference is not something I can get used to... back to the drawing board sort of speak... it is disappointing that winter NAMM didn't reveal anything interesting.
> I really feel that there is a hole in the market for good quality lightweight 88-note controllers...
> 
> Cheers, Max


Ciao Massimo, 
perhaps Icon models could be an interesting alternative?
but man! no aftertouch also on these models (watch my previous post)


----------



## Mystic

Polarity said:


> look here, these ones have wheels:
> http://iconproaudio.com/product/ikeyboard-8nano/
> http://iconproaudio.com/product/ikeyboard-8x/
> there are different models.
> explore under tab "product lines" + "keyboards" and "88 keys"


Ahh interesting. The tabs weren't working for me earlier. I see them all now.


----------



## Polarity

Saturday afternoon I made to go to the famous (and perhaps biggest)instruments store of my city to try many of the 88 master keyboards and plus get a feel from many synths and digital pianos they have there.
I have to say that in general I prefer Yamaha's keybeds compared to Roland's ones...
and that is a confirm of my old preference of taste for my Korg M1 (has Yamaha keyboard mounted on) or Yamaha SY77-99 compared to Roland D50, D70 and others synths of that period (early '90s).
Anyway, back on actual 88 master keyboards available...
considering that I'm used to my Oberheim MC200o weighted keybed.
I liked the Nektar LX88+: it has a light (but not too much) and fast keybed, that gave me a better feel than the M-Audio Keystation 88 Mk2 that is about similar.
Better feel (from the Nektar LX88+) also compared to other similar light keybed from the various 61 keys models: Novation Impulse, 61 keys Nektar models, Alesis, M-Audio Oxygen models or Roland's.

I put my hands also onto NI Kontrol S88 and Arturia Keylab 88 but I felt them heavier (and probably also slower) than my Oberheim MC2000...
I hadn't a good feeling with them while I had it instead with the Studiologic SL88 Studio (almost similar to MC2000), but... well, only until I didn't play also the black keys!
After having played just its white keys for a while (not sure why) I was surprised in a bad way when I played the black keys! Much harder to press and a feeling that I didn't like at all, contrary to what I had with the white keys).
It's a pity because the 3 X-Y joysticks (instead of wheels) were not bad at all and very interesting to use with synth sounds.

With the Nektar LX88+ I didn't felt a difference pressing the black keys as reported here in the thread, but I can say only about the physical sensation and not about the midi response with sounds because it was disconnetted (they were almost all disconnetted indeed and put all of them on shelves next to each other).

At the moment for my needs (lighter keys) I would buy the LX88+
but I'd like to hear more about the new Icon models presented at NAMM.


----------



## Polarity

InLight-Tone said:


> I recently bought the LX88+. It has a semi-weighted action that I find fast but not too light, definitely some resistance. It doesn't seem that they fixed the black key velocity issue but I'm getting used to it. It doesn't have aftertouch, BUT it does allow you to assign aftertouch to any of the controllers so you can send it from the unit.
> 
> Overall, for the price point a great value...



Because on their website Nektar seems to not give the chance to download the PDF manual,
can I ask you if it's possible to have it, please?
I'd like to see how a couple of functions work on LX88+ before a final decision.


----------



## Maximvs

Polarity said:


> Ciao Massimo,
> perhaps Icon models could be an interesting alternative?
> but man! no aftertouch also on these models (watch my previous post)



Hi Polarity,

The Icon iKeyboard 8X would fit me nicely but at the moment there are no places near where I live to go and test one out... aftertouch is not a major priority for me, nice to have though... Cheers, Max


----------



## dcoscina

I've been using a Kurzweil pc3x for years now and I love it. When it kicks the bucket I'd probably buy the Roland A88. They have nice action and even though I hate the joystick. I use faders anyhow from a korg microfader


----------



## Ashermusic

My next keyboard:
http://www.dexibell.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=70


----------



## synthpunk

If you value polyphonic aftertouch take a look at the VAX Midi controllers. If my old Peavey controller ever dies that's what I will choose

http://www.vaxmidi.com


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Has anyone some good or bad experience with the Arturia Keylabs ?
The action seemed nice to me when I tried it in a store.


----------



## Lynyrd

I went to a store looking for an Arturia, and the staff said they stopped selling them because they break down very fast, bad quality :(
I will get a Roland FP30 soon, right now I have a Nektar61 which has very bad velocity response on the black keys, avoid that one as well!


----------



## InLight-Tone

Polarity said:


> Because on their website Nektar seems to not give the chance to download the PDF manual,
> can I ask you if it's possible to have it, please?
> I'd like to see how a couple of functions work on LX88+ before a final decision.


I PMed you a link to the manual...


----------



## PaulBrimstone

Lynyrd said:


> I went to a store looking for an Arturia, and the staff said they stopped selling them because they break down very fast, bad quality :(
> I will get a Roland FP30 soon, right now I have a Nektar61 which has very bad velocity response on the black keys, avoid that one as well!


+1 for the Roland FP30, although you will need a midi controller for dynamics, vib etc.


----------



## steveo42

My preference is Roland, like RD700 etc.. I've taken them on tour many times and they just keep ticking.. Even the lower end weighted models are built like tanks and if needed parts are available for repair. I despise anything FATAR.. I was on tour back in the 90s with 3 keyboards that used Fatar action and I became well versed in repairing flying weights, cracked parts and so forth.. Complete crap IMHO and I refuse to use any controller with a Fatar action even though they have most likely improved over the years. Yamaha is quality as well.. I seem to remember something about having had some problems a ways back with not being able to hit 127 velocity. I might be having a senior moment with that one though. I assume that's fixed and the keybeds to my touch are solid. I'm pretty sure they do not use Fatar keybeds and they feel very solid to me. I have a Roland RD700 and a Roland RD150 and both are excellent.... My next unit will probably be a Kawai although I'm hearing good stuff about the Casio triple sensor units.. Haven't tried them yet. Something about Casio makes me think of cheap watches and calculators haha... Just my opinion...


----------



## Øivind

I am gonna save up (for a loong time) for this one i think :D

http://www.kawaivpc.com/en/


----------



## steveo42

oivind_rosvold said:


> I am gonna save up (for a loong time) for this one i think :D
> 
> http://www.kawaivpc.com/en/


That's the one I'm looking at as well.


----------



## Maximvs

I have an old Kawai MP8 with wooden keys and it is a wonderful instrument but heavy as a tank... not the kind of stage piano you want to take often on a gig

http://www.kawai.co.uk/mp8.htm


----------



## utopia

oivind_rosvold said:


> I am gonna save up (for a loong time) for this one i think :D
> 
> http://www.kawaivpc.com/en/


I have the vpc and as much as I love the action I haven't been able to find an ergonomic way to have it sit under my desk.selling it currently


----------



## Øivind

utopia said:


> I have the vpc and as much as I love the action I haven't been able to find an ergonomic way to have it sit under my desk.selling it currently


Yeah it seems like you have to build the studio around it hehe, it really is a beautiful piece of hardware. I don't have the space either, gonna need to figure something out


----------



## ZenFaced

Velocity resolution is important and so is the key sensors which you should always look into before purchasing any midi keyboard. I bought the Roland RD-800 for that purpose but its probably overkill for using it with a DAW. The Vaxmidi looks interesting.


----------



## Mystic

I'm still using a Yamaha KX8. Great action and velocity. The only downside is the plastic on the keys. Would have rather something a bit higher quality. Not sure why Yamaha discontinued it as quick as they did. It's a shame, it's a wonderful controller.


----------



## chimuelo

Ashermusic said:


> My next keyboard:
> http://www.dexibell.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=70



Love the ergonomic angled ModWheels idea.

Pretty much addicted to what I've got but always appreciate forward thinkers.


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## Polarity

chimuelo said:


>


What is this one, please?

EDIT: don't bother. Found it myself: Phyisis K4.
Hmm Viscount? like my MC2000, that was Oberheim / Viscount joint product.


----------



## chimuelo

Yep.
My MC3000 sits in a case.
Thing weighs too damn much.
115 lbs with the case.
Physis K4 is the God of realtime automation of racks of gear.


----------



## Gzu

oivind_rosvold said:


> I am gonna save up (for a loong time) for this one i think :D
> 
> http://www.kawaivpc.com/en/



I've bought The Vpc-1 a few months ago, and is absolutely marvelous.
The triple sensor for fast repetitions is a must.


----------



## Polarity

chimuelo said:


> Yep.
> My MC3000 sits in a case.
> Thing weighs too damn much.
> 115 lbs with the case.
> Physis K4 is the God of realtime automation of racks of gear.


Yep, they weigh both too much for sure.
Also the MC2000, even if lighter, isn't so easy for me (my suffering shoulder tendons) if I have to move it.
Physis K4 sure is great at controls, but is also more expensive for what I am looking for... indeed my MC2000 costed 770 euros to me.
Not wanting to pay more now, but a bit less.


----------



## chimuelo

It is overkill for most.
8 x continuos CC Pedals, 8 x MIDI Out, 2 x MIDI In, dual USB In ports, 4 x USB Outs.

If they halved that for 799 USD we would see these everywhere.
I use half of the I/Os, but definitely use all sliders buttons knobs and scenes.
Trigger keyswitches with FS-6 dual pedal and AFT.
It's MIDI is like the MC Series with USB and 4 x BCF-2000s.
2+ years and I'm still learning.


----------



## Mystic

Gzu said:


> I've bought The Vpc-1 a few months ago, and is absolutely marvelous.
> The triple sensor for fast repetitions is a must.


How would you say the keybed compares to Yamaha Graded Hammer beds as far as realism?


----------



## synthetic

oivind_rosvold said:


> I am gonna save up (for a loong time) for this one i think :D
> 
> http://www.kawaivpc.com/en/


The Kawai looks almost perfect, but no mod wheel! What were they thinking?

Ideal would be a controller with two mod wheels for mod and CC11. Hmm. Maybe I'll mod my Midiboard to do that since I never use pitch bend...


----------



## synthpunk

Or you can add a FADERCNTRL...
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/faderctrl-universal-midi-controller.58734/



synthetic said:


> The Kawai looks almost perfect, but no mod wheel! What were they thinking?
> 
> Ideal would be a controller with two mod wheels for mod and CC11. Hmm. Maybe I'll mod my Midiboard to do that since I never use pitch bend...


----------



## Øivind

synthpunk said:


> Or you can add a FADERCNTRL...
> http://vi-control.net/community/threads/faderctrl-universal-midi-controller.58734/



yeah i ordered one of the FaderCNTRLrs, will fit perfectly with the Kawai, when i save up for it in 10 years time ^^ Love that the Kawai does not have any buttons or wheels, you can supplement with what you want yourself.


----------



## synthetic

Yeah, I do most of my playing using a Peavey PC-1600x instead of a mod wheel for that reason (CC1 + CC11.)


----------



## NYC Composer

whitewasteland said:


> Has anyone some good or bad experience with the Arturia Keylabs ?
> The action seemed nice to me when I tried it in a store.


My 88 key weighted Arturia is quite nice. I've had it for a year and it works well. 

My only beefs are the tiny LCD, the multifunction buttons and the placement of the wheels, but overall I'm pleased with it. I just have to always remember that it has aftertouch!


----------



## Selfinflicted

NYC Composer said:


> My 88 key weighted Arturia is quite nice. I've had it for a year and it works well.
> 
> My only beefs are the tiny LCD, the multifunction buttons and the placement of the wheels, but overall I'm pleased with it. I just have to always remember that it has aftertouch!



I've had my Keylab88 about 2 years now I think. Pretty happy with it. I did have some failure about 9-10 months in and after some back and forth they sent me a brand new unit. That was about a year ago and the new unit has been fine. A huge step up in terms of quaility control. They clearly correct a lot of issues people were complaining about.

It's a good deal for the $ and the key bed is good.


----------



## Maximvs

Selfinflicted said:


> I've had my Keylab88 about 2 years now I think. Pretty happy with it. I did have some failure about 9-10 months in and after some back and forth they sent me a brand new unit. That was about a year ago and the new unit has been fine. A huge step up in terms of quaility control. They clearly correct a lot of issues people were complaining about.
> 
> It's a good deal for the $ and the key bed is good.



Hi there, I am looking for some feedback and comments from people like yourself that own the Arturia Keylab 88. I have read and heard that this keyboard had some issues in term of key that stopped working and faders that were malfunctioning, I am wondering if this is still the case or those issues have been addressed...

Thanks a lot in advance for any comment... Cheers, Max


----------



## Selfinflicted

I've had lots of controllers and I'm happy with the Keylab88. There were some quality control issues with the initial release and I had to send mine back about 9 months in, but they were good and sent me a brand new unit. The new unit was clearly a later production with lots of corrections. I've had no problems with the 2nd unit. Definitely one of the better controllers I've owned - good bang for the buck. I recommend it.


----------



## Maximvs

Selfinflicted said:


> I've had lots of controllers and I'm happy with the Keylab88. There were some quality control issues with the initial release and I had to send mine back about 9 months in, but they were good and sent me a brand new unit. The new unit was clearly a later production with lots of corrections. I've had no problems with the 2nd unit. Definitely one of the better controllers I've owned - good bang for the buck. I recommend it.


Thanks a lot for your kind comment on the Keylab 88....


----------



## Ashermusic

I just bought a Dexibell Vivo S7 stage piano and it has a really nice feel and great piano, Rhodes, Wurlitzer, organ, strings and pad sounds.


----------



## Mystic

The iCon iKeyboard 8x comes out very soon. I was wondering if anyone had a chance to play around with it or test it out at this point since I know they have been to a few of the big events.

http://iconproaudio.com/product/ikeyboard-8x/


----------



## tack

> The full sized keys are semi-weighted to provide realistic piano action.


I'm not sure they know what real pianos feel like.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Mystic said:


> The iCon iKeyboard 8x comes out very soon. I was wondering if anyone had a chance to play around with it or test it out at this point since I know they have been to a few of the big events.
> 
> http://iconproaudio.com/product/ikeyboard-8x/



Although I like the width, I hate it when all the controls are placed way over on the left.


----------



## Mystic

Wolfie2112 said:


> Although I like the width, I hate it when all the controls are placed way over on the left.


I have a Yamaha with the wheels up at the top left already but looking for something low profile and this fits the bill. It's the first time I've seen something with a quality metal construction like this, minimal but complete control selection and 88 key semi-weight for $200. I'm concerned about the key feel and action though as well as the software/compatibility (if it has anything other than a plug and play driver). For that price, I'm wondering what corners were cut.


----------



## Guy Rowland

This snuck out sometime last year, for those of us on the eternal quest for a better semi-weighted 88 keyboard:



(NB - only available in the EU and Switzerland through Thomann, who seem to own the Swissonic brand).

Most comments I've been able to read seem to be happy with the keyboard itself (and it has aftertouch), but one German review seemed more sniffy... I couldn't tell if that was just meaning that it wasn't weighted though. Anyone have any first or second hand experience?


----------



## Vastman

Guy Rowland said:


> This snuck out sometime last year, for those of us on the eternal quest for a better semi-weighted 88 keyboard:
> 
> 
> 
> (NB - only available in the EU and Switzerland through Thomann, who seem to own the Swissonic brand).
> 
> Most comments I've been able to read seem to be happy with the keyboard itself (and it has aftertouch), but one German review seemed more sniffy... I couldn't tell if that was just meaning that it wasn't weighted though. Anyone have any first or second hand experience?



Under 300euros!!!! OY! Another reason I've grown to hate being stuck in the fascistic states of America.... ARRRRRG!

Get it, Guy! Definately an upgrade on that ole maudio! I left all my keystations (yea, had the pro too, which was pretty good for it's time and $200) at my farm in Cali for the guy who bought it... actually, a whole basement of recording gear I no longer use... 

Still making do with my Kontrol88 & Impact 88+ but would love a report...


----------



## Guy Rowland

Ordered!


----------



## Vastman

Guy Rowland said:


> Ordered!


Will eagerly await ur feedback!


----------



## Maximvs

Guy Rowland said:


> Ordered!


I am also very interested to hear your experience with this controller. Cheers, Max T.


----------



## benmrx

Guy Rowland said:


> Ordered!



Would LOOOOVE to hear your review once you get your hands on it!


----------



## IFM

+1 On hearing your review Guy. I have the Arturia and although only about 2-3 years old I've already had one fader start to be sketchy and the ink they used started wearing off within the first year. Whenever I am trying to write fast sections I actually get worn out from the heavy action of the keyboard. It's not terrible but starting to become annoying. A semi-weighted is what I am looking for now.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Yes, will of course be reporting back - I think delivery will be 3 or 4 days. Chris, I'll be honest upfront and say I'm unlikely to ever use the faders / pots etc, my interest is 100% in the keyboard and wheels so I may not be an entirely reliable source of info on the rest...


----------



## IFM

Guy Rowland said:


> Yes, will of course be reporting back - I think delivery will be 3 or 4 days. Chris, I'll be honest upfront and say I'm unlikely to ever use the faders / pots etc, my interest is 100% in the keyboard and wheels so I may not be an entirely reliable source of info on the rest...


That's okay as I made/am making a custom TouchOSC screen for all my necessary controls. I'm more interested in the keyboard and how consistent the velocity is (MIDI wise).


----------



## Piano & Strings

Looks like they ship worldwide and US is $36.60 delivery. Seriously tempted by this keyboard if the black and white keys have an equal feel and full velocity response (the holy grail). I love the volume/expression input and I can see those 16 pads being useful for keyswitching midi channels on the fly. Eager to hear your feedback Guy


----------



## benmrx

Guy Rowland said:


> Yes, will of course be reporting back - I think delivery will be 3 or 4 days. Chris, I'll be honest upfront and say I'm unlikely to ever use the faders / pots etc, my interest is 100% in the keyboard and wheels so I may not be an entirely reliable source of info on the rest...



Guy...., this is totally unacceptable...., there should at least be a 4 hour, in-depth, in-action, real world review on this by now. And that's just for the modwheel........, that was sarcasm by the way. 
☺ 
Really looking forward to your thoughts on this!


----------



## Mystic

I'm waiting on a three hour lecture on the key responsiveness followed by a 10 hour masterclass on the velocity curves it uses.


----------



## Guy Rowland

It arrived today! And I think it'll work out just fine, though might take a little getting used to. The key response feels even and pretty consistent, though the acoustic clunk of the keys is quite loud, more so for the black keys for some reason. But playing feels fine, certainly an improvement on the Nektar I demoed with the black/white key issue, and void of the M Audio gremlins. I'll need to live with it for a few days to bed in.


----------



## benmrx

Guy Rowland said:


> It arrived today! And I think it'll work out just fine, though might take a little getting used to. The key response feels even and pretty consistent, though the acoustic clunk of the keys is quite loud, more so for the black keys for some reason. But playing feels fine, certainly an improvement on the Nektar I demoed with the black/white key issue, and void of the M Audio gremlins. I'll need to live with it for a few days to bed in.



Great to hear! Thanks!!!


----------



## Piano & Strings

Guy Rowland said:


> It arrived today! And I think it'll work out just fine, though might take a little getting used to. The key response feels even and pretty consistent, though the acoustic clunk of the keys is quite loud, more so for the black keys for some reason. But playing feels fine, certainly an improvement on the Nektar I demoed with the black/white key issue, and void of the M Audio gremlins. I'll need to live with it for a few days to bed in.


Sounds encouraging so far... interested to know if your thoughts change after a few weeks of good use


----------



## Guy Rowland

So far so good, Marc. The best thing I can say is I forget that it's there most of the time, it gives me no trouble and nothing bugs me. Well, except that I wish the wheels were at the side. I'm probably actually going to disable aftertouch as it just generates a ton of data I don't really want or need.


----------



## Piano & Strings

Guy Rowland said:


> So far so good, Marc. The best thing I can say is I forget that it's there most of the time, it gives me no trouble and nothing bugs me. Well, except that I wish the wheels were at the side. I'm probably actually going to disable aftertouch as it just generates a ton of data I don't really want or need.


That's awesome. It's seeming more and more like my best option


----------



## Piano & Strings

Guy Rowland said:


> So far so good, Marc. The best thing I can say is I forget that it's there most of the time, it gives me no trouble and nothing bugs me. Well, except that I wish the wheels were at the side. I'm probably actually going to disable aftertouch as it just generates a ton of data I don't really want or need.


Hi Guy - I was wondering where the heaviness of the action on the Swissonic falls between synth and weighted on the semi-weighted scale. Would you say it's somewhere in the middle or closer to synth, or weighted? Are the sides of the keys smooth? That's something that bugged me on the keystation 88 I tested. Now that it's getting close to a month with the board, do you still feel like there is an even balance between the white and black key weight/balance? One final question... have you tried playing piano on it? Are you able to get a half expressive performance or is the sensitivity not good enough and you find you're triggering higher velocity samples randomly? I'll thank you in advance, in case you've got that patience to answer


----------



## Guy Rowland

Hello Marc - it's closer to synth than weighted, which is pretty much how I like it. That said, it doesn't have that super-extra-springy action that some synths have, it feels just a shade more refined than that. Not noticed any funnies with the sides of the keys, and I've entirely forgotten about any black / white key discrepancy, which is a good thing. As I bash it now unconnected there is that difference in sensation and physical sound as hits the end stop hard, but it doesn't affect the actual travel or velocity response if you get my drift, which is the important thing for me anyway.

I've played some piano sounds on it - it feels similar to the keystation really, except its not randomly buggered up, that's the best way I can describe it. I never minded the overall feel of that, it was just horribly erratic and unreliable. I'm so used to playing piano sounds that way now, that its a zero issue for me really.... the keyboard feels the same no matter what I play, and hooray.

My main gripe is purely to do with my physical space... it's just a bit too deep for comfort here, the keystation was the perfect depth. I don't use any of the other features, and doubt I ever will. Otherwise it does its thing reliably without complaining, so I'm basically happy if not ecstatic.


----------



## Piano & Strings

Guy Rowland said:


> Hello Marc - it's closer to synth than weighted, which is pretty much how I like it. That said, it doesn't have that super-extra-springy action that some synths have, it feels just a shade more refined than that. Not noticed any funnies with the sides of the keys, and I've entirely forgotten about any black / white key discrepancy, which is a good thing. As I bash it now unconnected there is that difference in sensation and physical sound as hits the end stop hard, but it doesn't affect the actual travel or velocity response if you get my drift, which is the important thing for me anyway.
> 
> I've played some piano sounds on it - it feels similar to the keystation really, except its not randomly buggered up, that's the best way I can describe it. I never minded the overall feel of that, it was just horribly erratic and unreliable. I'm so used to playing piano sounds that way now, that its a zero issue for me really.... the keyboard feels the same no matter what I play, and hooray.
> 
> My main gripe is purely to do with my physical space... it's just a bit too deep for comfort here, the keystation was the perfect depth. I don't use any of the other features, and doubt I ever will. Otherwise it does its thing reliably without complaining, so I'm basically happy if not ecstatic.


I can't thank you enough for all this helpful info Guy. I bet it's going to be invaluable to more than just me . I know what you mean about depth (with a lot of controllers actually). The layout of the Keystation is what I'd love ideally too. We can't have it all without compromising something it always seems haha!


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## Wunderhorn

It would be interesting to have a comparison of the Icon and the Swissonic side by side...


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## David3D

Any updates on this?

I'm really struggling to find an 88 key weighted hammer action keyboard with a flippin' mod wheel. It seems my only legitimate option is the Atruria Keylab 88 at this point. I'm also confused about aftertouch. Some people call it a deal breaker if it does not have it. Some say not having it is a deal breaker.

Is it ideal/advantageous or annoying to have if you're learning the piano?

The N.I has:
- Proprietary controls which are useless outside of a Kontakt environment if i'm not mistaken.
- Flaky touch slider controls for mod/pitch control

Atruria has:

- Mod wheel but in the wrong place
- mixed reactions on the feel of the keyboard

The A-88 is no longer made, which is annoying. The cheapest second hand one in my area is basically new price nut without warranty, so that isn't happening!

All I want is a weighted, hammer action keyboard with a nice feel and a classic modulation wheel. I don't need 100 faders and buttons with an LCD panel. I'm just wanting it to be my primary midi controller for the usual orchestral mockups, while also doubling as a digital piano to learn piano with.

Updates are appreciated!


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## N.Caffrey

David3D said:


> Any updates on this?
> 
> I'm really struggling to find an 88 key weighted hammer action keyboard with a flippin' mod wheel. It seems my only legitimate option is the Atruria Keylab 88 at this point. I'm also confused about aftertouch. Some people call it a deal breaker if it does not have it. Some say not having it is a deal breaker.
> 
> Is it ideal/advantageous or annoying to have if you're learning the piano?
> 
> The N.I has:
> - Proprietary controls which are useless outside of a Kontakt environment if i'm not mistaken.
> - Flaky touch slider controls for mod/pitch control
> 
> Atruria has:
> 
> - Mod wheel but in the wrong place
> - mixed reactions on the feel of the keyboard
> 
> The A-88 is no longer made, which is annoying. The cheapest second hand one in my area is basically new price nut without warranty, so that isn't happening!
> 
> All I want is a weighted, hammer action keyboard with a nice feel and a classic modulation wheel. I don't need 100 faders and buttons with an LCD panel. I'm just wanting it to be my primary midi controller for the usual orchestral mockups, while also doubling as a digital piano to learn piano with.
> 
> Updates are appreciated!


I have an arturia keylab 88. I don't have problems with it.


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## EvilDragon

David3D said:


> All I want is a weighted, hammer action keyboard with a nice feel and a classic modulation wheel.



Casio PX-5S can't be beat for the price. You also get triple sensor action.


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## David3D

N.Caffrey said:


> I have an arturia keylab 88. I don't have problems with it.


Cool. Did you get it recently?

I should have come here earlier. Just learned of the Privia PX-5S. Can't get one in my country though. Seems like the best option so far however.


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## David3D

EvilDragon said:


> Casio PX-5S can't be beat for the price. You also get triple sensor action.


Just finished reading all your posts about it and looked it up, haha.


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## EvilDragon

Ugh, you Kiwis just can't get a break, can you... :/ Sucks that you can't get it there. But mainland Australia _should_ have them?


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## David3D

EvilDragon said:


> Ugh, you Kiwis just can't get a break, can you... :/ Sucks that you can't get it there. But mainland Australia _should_ have them?


I KNOW. One of the trade-offs of living in one of the most remote countries on Earth. The other downside is shipping then import duty, then goods and services tax make the board almost twice as expensive.

But I'll keep an eye out for a second hand one. I've found a Casio Privia PX-360M for $1300 NZD. Well within my price range, but looks a lot different. Do you have any experience with them?


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## N.Caffrey

David3D said:


> Cool. Did you get it recently?
> 
> I should have come here earlier. Just learned of the Privia PX-5S. Can't get one in my country though. Seems like the best option so far however.


Yes couple months ago!


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## EvilDragon

David3D said:


> I've found a Casio Privia PX-360M for $1300 NZD. Well within my price range, but looks a lot different. Do you have any experience with them?



No direct experience, but the keybed I think is the same as PX-5S (they mention triple sensor on the website, most of the PX series has the same keybed as far as I can tell). You don't get the knobs, sliders and no modwheel either on it, though (just pitch bend).


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## blougui

Me like very much my Yamaha CP33 - weighted like a proper piano : heavier on the lower notes, lighter on the higher.
2 wheels.
But alas no after touch.


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## Quasar

blougui said:


> Me like very much my Yamaha CP33 - weighted like a proper piano : heavier on the lower notes, lighter on the higher.
> 2 wheels.
> But alas no after touch.


This is what I have. The CP33 is a great keyboard, and yes, has the so-called GH (graded hammer effect) instead of the GHS (graded hammer standard) found on the cheaper P80s or whatever, which also are graded low to high, but don't have the same resistance and play "squishy" (for lack of a better word) to me. I bought my CP33 used at Reverb.com for $500, and it arrived in great shape as though it were new. Best bang-for-buck possible IMHO on a budget.

Yes, it does lack aftertouch. It also lacks the 3rd sensor found on some higher end boards, which allows one to retrigger a note when only 50% releasing it. But I seldom notice this (maybe once in a while with very soft pp trills), and I'm not sure which if any soft pianos support the triple sensor anyway.

I'm partial to Yamaha, as I've had really good luck with them, and definitely favor a weighted stage piano over one of those relatively flimsy 88 key controllers... I have a dual rack with a Novation Impulse 61 above the CP33. This provides aftertouch as well as the whole slew of faders, knobs and pads for MIDI control which the stage pianos lack. The CP33 does have PB and MW though, and the build quality is really good.


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## David3D

The CP33 also looks great. So glad I asked around.

If only I could have the key bed of the PX-5S, the profile and colour of the CP33 and the control of the Atruria in one board. Alas, no CP33 available in NZ.

Maybe I should jump straight in to the manufacturing game!


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## EvilDragon

Quasar said:


> I'm not sure which if any soft pianos support the triple sensor anyway.



There's no need to support triple sensor really. That's just related to MIDI note on/off generation, i.e. it enables you to perform some techniques that are very difficult if not downright impossible with a dual sensor keybed (fast trills at pp, fast key repetition (i.e. try playing Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no 2 on a dual sensor board, it is just not happening, so many nuances are simply lost), etc.


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## Quasar

EvilDragon said:


> There's no need to support triple sensor really. That's just related to MIDI note on/off generation, i.e. it enables you to perform some techniques that are very difficult if not downright impossible with a dual sensor keybed (fast trills at pp, fast key repetition (i.e. try playing Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no 2 on a dual sensor board, it is just not happening, so many nuances are simply lost), etc.



When you put it that way, yeah, I get what you mean and it seems obvious. The MIDI info is just being sent, however it's generated, and the 3rd sensor would only mean that you can successfully send it under a wider variety of physical conditions...

Thanks for the clarification.


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## David3D

Just an update. I purchased a second hand MIDITECH Origin61 for $150.00 for the 16 faders/knobs, mod/pitch wheel and the extra 61 keys. I'm going to buy the Yamaha P45 for the superior feel, over the Atruria, PX-560 or the S88. They seemed plastic and flimsy compared to the Yamaha. The S88's sketchy functionality has scared me off it entirely.

I tried the Privia 560 with the mod wheel and at $1899.00 it was too noisy and bulky with features I didn't need. Not ideal going with two separate boards really, but I'll be saving myself 700 odd dollars and getting a superior board to learn with. The P45 has an ideal profile for hiding it under my desk and just seems like a superior product compared to the Casio.

If someone can suggest a better digital piano with similar profile to the P45 with superior feel, by all means, let me know! But at this stage, I think it's the best option. I'll put the other 700 bucks in to desk improvements, like electric height adjustment, heavy duty piano drawer...etc.


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## wcreed51

I see that StudioLogic has a 73key triple sensor keyboard in the works. I'll be watching for that one.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1385462-REG/studiologic_sl_73_studio_sl73_studio_73.html


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## JohnG

I thought the new (sort-of-new) NI keyboards looked very well thought out.


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## HIRAM LECEDRE

Kurzweil K2500X


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## agarner32

JohnG said:


> I thought the new (sort-of-new) NI keyboards looked very well thought out.


They are well thought out, but for me it wasn't long before the keys started clicking rendering it unusable because of the noise. In my opinion they are not constructed very well. I went back to my Yamaha CP4 which is great for my needs.


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## cola2410

Ok I have the winner now - Kawai ES8. It has counterweights so compared to Roland FP90 it's a little bit heavier but I like it more. Ironically was ready to buy FP90 and occasionally tried the keybed on the different Kawai piano and ordered just the portable model immediately. Comes with a pedal and works as a MIDI controller as well. Nicely balanced FX and Virtual Technician app to tweak it. Built-in speakers are just OK but the other stuff including onboard sounds is superb compared to the competition (Yamaha P-255 and Roland FP-90).

Open for questions.


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## HIRAM LECEDRE

I've had my Kurzweil K2500X for 21 years now and wouldn't use anything else as an 88-key MIDI controller. It has so many programmable controllers on it, I've yet to see anything today that compares: 8 sliders, 2 switches, 4 switch pedals, 4 CC foot pedals, 3-octave long ribbon controller, a 2nd ribbon controller sensitive to pressure and location, mod, and pitch wheels. You can find them on eBay.


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## EvilDragon

Kurzweil PC3 has even more controllers (9 sliders, breath controller, more buttons, one pedal input and small ribbon less, though, but overall it does have more controllers).


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## JohnG

My Doepfer is pretty good. I had to surrender my ancient Kurzweil after two decades because the keys got so loud I could barely play soft passages. One day I realised -- "why am I dealing with this?" and got the Doepfer as a replacement.

Quite a few other good solutions have arrived on the scene since then -- 3-4 years ago. At that time, however, there was a shocking dearth of good alternatives.


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## DS_Joost

I use a Studiologic SL880 Pro. I've had/have all the known issues these keyboards get. Random cc messages, clicky notes, sticky keys, you name it. Is has just a modwheel and pitchbend which I don't dare use because of the aforementioned erratic cc behaviour. 

I would however never use another keyboard. The piano action and velocity response is so good that I wouldn't give it up for the world.

I wouldn't ever go for a Nektar Impact LX88 again, however. My most dissapointing purschase ever. The keyboard action and velocity response is so erratic, unpredictable and frankly stupid (different response betweeb black, white keys, like really?). It really negates every good thing about this keyboard. The keys are the most important factor, after all. It works great as a controller, but fails miserably as a KEYboard.


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## Garry

I previously would not have recommended the Komplete Kontrol s88: however, in this thread, you'll see me completely change my mind, as I understand some functionality I had missed, thanks to @R.Soul, and now fits perfectly in my workflow.

Totally recommend it now.


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## Garry

DS_Joost said:


> I use a Studiologic SL880 Pro. I've had/have all the known issues these keyboards get. Random cc messages, clicky notes, sticky keys, you name it. Is has just a modwheel and pitchbend which I don't dare use because of the aforementioned erratic cc behaviour.
> 
> I would however never use another keyboard. The piano action and velocity response is so good that I wouldn't give it up for the world.
> 
> I wouldn't ever go for a Nektar Impact LX88 again, however. My most dissapointing purschase ever. The keyboard action and velocity response is so erratic, unpredictable and frankly stupid (different response betweeb black, white keys, like really?). It really negates every good thing about this keyboard. The keys are the most important factor, after all. It works great as a controller, but fails miserably as a KEYboard.



Agree completely - I have the SL990 Pro (not sure what the difference is to the SL880 Pro - probably very minor), but I love it, and whilst I recommend the Komplete Kontrol s88 for great functionality (that I only now appreciate, 2 years after buying it!!), I still use the SL as the keyboard, as the feel is just great, and beats everything else I try, including much more expensive options. Wouldn't swap it for the world, and would replace with the same in a heartbeat.


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## Mystic

Garry said:


> I previously would not have recommended the Komplete Kontrol s88: however, in this thread, you'll see me completely change my mind, as I understand some functionality I had missed, thanks to @R.Soul, and now fits perfectly in my workflow.
> 
> Totally recommend it now.


I'm just wondering why there has been no version 2 of the 88 key yet :/


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## Garry

Mystic said:


> I'm just wondering why there has been no version 2 of the 88 key yet :/


Yeah, I don’t know. Though the onboard screen doesn’t do it for me personally. Seems you would want this if you don’t have a monitor, or use it for live playing, neither of which is my situation.


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## EvilDragon

v2 of the 88 key will happen eventually. Don't forget that the original was about a year late to the market.


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## justaplayer

I still have Doepfer LMK2, I like it overall. However seems like modulation controller not working, or some problems with software. Driver is old and not good enough, basically each time I start kontakt, I have to unplug keyboard and plug it back to make it appear. Also, the key pressure feeling is quite hard, it's harder than on most live pianos I've played. However it still feels much more natural than most keyboards I've tested so far. And unlike KAWAII, it's portable and packed into a great shield. However if I would choose just a stationary keyboard, not to be moved ever anyway, placed on a stationary wooden deck, I would select KAWAII


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## Mystic

I've been looking into that Roland RD2000 more. I just have a feeling I will buy one and they will come out with an RD3000 which will be a massive upgrade... cause that's just how it works.


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## EvilDragon

Probably not, it took them quite some years to move from RD-800 to RD-2000...


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## puremusic

Did you get yours yet Mario?


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## iMovieShout

Anyone here have an M-Audio Oxygen 88? I've been given one (hardly used) and I'm having trouble getting it to output MIDI via either USB or MIDI Out port. I have the optional power supply, but that makes no difference except to light up the display. 
The keybed feels great so would really like to get it working on Windows10 and Cubase 10.

Thanks in advance


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## DS_Joost

jpb007.uk said:


> Anyone here have an M-Audio Oxygen 88? I've been given one (hardly used) and I'm having trouble getting it to output MIDI via either USB or MIDI Out port. I have the optional power supply, but that makes no difference except to light up the display.
> The keybed feels great so would really like to get it working on Windows10 and Cubase 10.
> 
> Thanks in advance



I've had it. Before the SL880 it was my little baby. Seriously loved that keyboard! I don't know why yours doesn't work, it should be plug and play from the get go without any drivers whatsoever.

Maybe it was given to you for a reason? 😂

Just kidding. I don't have a straight up answer... Perhaps Midi OX could be of help?


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