# Go see "The Illusionist"



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 2, 2006)

We saw it last night, and it's just great. I also love Philip Glass' score. Unique, emotional writing, and it works extremely well.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 2, 2006)

Hmm i've never heard anything other than crap come from Glass so this should be interesting.  Actually I have heard clips of the score but forgot what it sounded like.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 2, 2006)

If you want to say you don't care for his music, that's absolutely valid. But I don't think it's fair to say that anything he's done is "crap." Even the stuff he was doing in the mid '70s (||: Knock knock. Who's there? Knock knock. Who's there? Knock knock. Who's there? Knock knock. Who's there? : || Philip Glass.) requires listening beneath the surface.

What he was doing back then (which is quite different from what he's doing now) isn't something you can just decide to do - there's actually a lot going on. I saw his group live around that time, and it was very moving.

The score to "The Illusionist" has a definite old Austrian feel, but then you listen and go "hey - wait a minute!" He knows what he's doing.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 2, 2006)

By the way, you might also want to check out his score to "The Hours," which was maybe four or five years ago. That's anything but crap.

You don't have to like it, but you do have to appreciate his skill.

And I do like it.


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## midphase (Sep 2, 2006)

I think Philip Glass is one of those composers who people either love or hate (or love to hate). I have been hooked since Koyanisqaatzy (sp) and even saw him live playing against a projection of the film. I love his work in Fog of War, and even like the usage of his cues in Truman Show. However I don't know anyone else in my circle who likes him as much as I do. Most tolerate him at best...others go on endless diatribes when I bring up his name. For what it's worth...I think he kicks Danny Elfman and Hans Zimmer's combined asses.


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## Niah (Sep 2, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> By the way, you might also want to check out his score to "The Hours," which was maybe four or five years ago. That's anything but crap.
> 
> You don't have to like it, but you do have to appreciate his skill.
> 
> And I do like it.



The hours is really something, just last night I was listening to it, truly moving and inspiring. I generally tend to like his film scores as well as his minimal and classical works.

I think Glass, like Reich, is an artist and stands out of all the other composers outhere. His music has a distinctive voice, or what I like to call it, personality.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 2, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sat Sep 02 said:


> If you want to say you don't care for his music, that's absolutely valid. But I don't think it's fair to say that anything he's done is "crap." Even the stuff he was doing in the mid '70s (||: Knock knock. Who's there? Knock knock. Who's there? Knock knock. Who's there? Knock knock. Who's there? : || Philip Glass.) requires listening beneath the surface.
> 
> What he was doing back then (which is quite different from what he's doing now) isn't something you can just decide to do - there's actually a lot going on. I saw his group live around that time, and it was very moving.
> 
> The score to "The Illusionist" has a definite old Austrian feel, but then you listen and go "hey - wait a minute!" He knows what he's doing.



How about in my opinion all his work i've heard is crap. I shouldn't even have to say it, of course it's my opinion. There are many composers where I can admit I don't like their music but recognize they have talent and can see how they could appeal to others. Mr. Glass is not one of them.  Maybe i'd like his score for The Illusionist, there's a first time for anything. Like with Graeme Revell, I dislike all of his work except one score. Maybe later i'll listen to some Illusionist clips but first i'll prepare my Phillip Glass Aspirin emergency kit just in case.


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## Alex W (Sep 2, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Sat Sep 02 said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to say you don't care for his music, that's absolutely valid. But I don't think it's fair to say that anything he's done is "crap." Even the stuff he was doing in the mid '70s (||: Knock knock. Who's there? Knock knock. Who's there? Knock knock. Who's there? Knock knock. Who's there? : || Philip Glass.) requires listening beneath the surface.
> ...



Watch Fog of War, it's an excellent docu-feature and the score is brilliant. Simple, very original, creative, and it fits the subject matter like a glove.

I'm looking forward to seeing The Illusionist.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 2, 2006)

I saw Glass and his ensemble play live in the early 80s and they kicked everybody's ass. Amazing players. And I really loved Einstein on the Beach. I can't say I'm a big fan of the stuff after the mid-80s though. Yet, as part of the 3 important US minimalists (along with Reich and Riley), he'll be remembered a LOT longer than most film composers like Elfman, and other chocO faves.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 2, 2006)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> I saw Glass and his ensemble play live in the early 80s and they kicked everybody's ass. Amazing players. And I really loved Einstein on the Beach. I can't say I'm a big fan of the stuff after the mid-80s though. Yet, as part of the 3 important US minimalists (along with Reich and Riley), he'll be remembered a LOT longer than most film composers like Elfman, and other chocO faves.



Another choco fave would be John Williams so we'll so how well he does against him.


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## midphase (Sep 3, 2006)

Just got back from the John Williams concert at the Hollywood Bowl! The guy is a true master...although he did honor other greats such as Steiner, Hermann, and Rotsa. Unfortunately no Glass in the repertoire tonight!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 3, 2006)

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## choc0thrax (Sep 3, 2006)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> You may not like this, choc0, but I happen to think that Glass will be remembered longer than JW as well. Glass was part of a movement in contemporary concert music, a movement that influenced many, many composers to write in a new way, to take music in a new direction (minimalism). That kind of action stands the test of time, IMO, much more than writing in a (very good) Wagner+Mahler+Stravinsky (+jazz) style 70 and more yrs after they did.



Why does it matter though if someone is remembered for a long time? I'm sure Hitler will be remembered for a while. If you are saying Glass being remembered somehow makes him a better composer I could just say more people like John Williams and thus he is better.  Not that it matters, I still think Glass sucks balls at composing for picture and hurts a lot of films with his distracting music. I think he should've stayed in the concert hall.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 3, 2006)

choc0thrax @ 3/9/2006 said:


> I could just say more people like John Williams and thus he is better.



More people like Paris Hilton, and so she's a better composer. :roll: :wink: 

Everyone remembers Mozart, but Vanhal was much better. :mrgreen:


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 3, 2006)

"Not that it matters, I still think Glass sucks balls at composing for picture and hurts a lot of films with his distracting music."

Kowanishoweverthehellyouspellit, his first film, was supposed to be "distracting" - it carried the film, albeit in a very '70s kind of way. His scores to "The Hours" and especially "The Illusionist" (which is not at all Hollywood fluff) are not distracting at all. On the contrary, the reason I recommended the film here is precisely that it worked so well.

Now if you want to hear distracting music, go see "Da Vinci Code." What's almost interesting is that it distracted by lacking the depth it wanted.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 3, 2006)

No thanks, I think i'll steer clear of that Davinci Crap. The trailer for The Illusionist seems good and does make me want to see it. I'm also curious to see how Rufus Sewell does.


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## Alex W (Sep 3, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> "Not that it matters, I still think Glass sucks balls at composing for picture and hurts a lot of films with his distracting music."
> 
> Kowanishoweverthehellyouspellit, his first film, was supposed to be "distracting" - it carried the film, albeit in a very '70s kind of way. His scores to "The Hours" and especially "The Illusionist" (which is not at all Hollywood fluff) are not distracting at all. On the contrary, the reason I recommended the film here is precisely that it worked so well.
> 
> Now if you want to hear distracting music, go see "Da Vinci Code." What's almost interesting is that it distracted by lacking the depth it wanted.



Man... Da Vinci Code was so bloody boring...

I was stoned, and it was still the most boring thing I've ever seen.

The soundtrack has its moments though don't ya think Choc? The cue "chevaliers de sangreal" is pretty amazing.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 3, 2006)

Alex W @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Sep 04 said:
> 
> 
> > "Not that it matters, I still think Glass sucks balls at composing for picture and hurts a lot of films with his distracting music."
> ...



chevaliers de sangreal doesn't do that much for me. I've read people talking about it being a powerful cue or whatever though. Most powerful cue of the year so far goes to Evey Reborn.


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## Alex W (Sep 3, 2006)

what's that?


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## Niah (Sep 3, 2006)

Alex W @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> what's that?



V for Vendetta :twisted:


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## choc0thrax (Sep 3, 2006)

Yeah it's from V for Vendetta. Evey Reborn is the cue with the best use of Marianelli's ascending "freedom chords" as he calls them.


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## tobyond (Sep 3, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> Most powerful cue of the year so far goes to Evey Reborn.



100% agree, great cue from great soundtrack. Haven't heard much else from Marianelli, but I'm going to have to.

I do like Phillip Glass though. Have to check out the movie.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 3, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Sat Sep 02 said:


> Hmm i've never heard anything other than crap come from Glass so this should be interesting.  Actually I have heard clips of the score but forgot what it sounded like.



Yet another uneducated quote from Choco... :roll:


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## choc0thrax (Sep 3, 2006)

I'm trying to go for the most rolly eyes aimed in my direction award.


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## kid-surf (Sep 3, 2006)

Patrick de Caumette @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sat Sep 02 said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm i've never heard anything other than crap come from Glass so this should be interesting.  Actually I have heard clips of the score but forgot what it sounded like.
> ...




I don't think it takes an education to "feel" the effects of one's music. Maybe we should be required to pass a test and therefore be granted a license to listen to certain music that the highbrow crowd deems 'worthiest'. 

Btw--- the color yellow is a crap color. Whoever can prove that it's not gets $100. 

Black is a much better color, the best color in fact..... green is a good color too. Orange is a little better than yellow, but not by much. Purple is another horrible color.... almost forgot how bad purple is. 

I'd say it's the same way with music...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 3, 2006)

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: 

Now get off my and Ed's internet!


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## kid-surf (Sep 3, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
> 
> Now get off my and Ed's internet!




You guys may wanna set a meeting with Al Gore.... there seems to be some confusion here. :roll: 


Although, if you run for president I _will_ vote for you.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 3, 2006)

kid-surf @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> Patrick de Caumette @ Sun Sep 03 said:
> 
> 
> > choc0thrax @ Sat Sep 02 said:
> ...



Sorry, but when someone summurises the career and work of a composer such as Glass (who is not my favorite composer by any means but that has made a significant contribution nonetheless) as "crap" I can't help but think that someone IS uneducated in some areas. 
I know you feel a little touchy anytime there is mention of formal musical edution but I felt like saying it anyway. We are all entitled to our opinions and that includes me as well :wink:


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## choc0thrax (Sep 3, 2006)

What areas would you suggest I study to fully understand the crappyness of Glass?


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## Brian Ralston (Sep 4, 2006)

My girlfriend and I saw THE ILLUSIONIST today. It was very good. We both really liked the movie. Highly recommended. Glass's score was good and effective, yet thinking back...I can not remember any lasting thematic material. Of course there was thematic material and I felt it worked well in the context of the film at the time (which is the whole point), but I would have to say for me thinking back, the score now is largely unmemorable.


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## kid-surf (Sep 4, 2006)

1) For the record: Let's not assume I don't have any formal musical education. Cuz I do. But probably not as much as you.  (And let's not assume I don't study currently when I'm not on a gig.) So in the future please keep me out of the "I think no musical training is best" camp. Doesn't represent my view. 

2) I get by mostly on my good looks and charm anyway, so it's irrelevant... 

3) Your opinions have been noted. 

4) In a general sense -- I just find it amusing, is all, the highbrow attitude some composers have. I just feel there is a fairly big difference in "getting" the work of the masters/Class-A crew, and "writing" at that level. And If a highly trained individual is not writing at that level what do you suppose is the reason? It's not education.

5) I took Choc0's comment as satirical and over the top.......


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## PaulR (Sep 4, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> "The Illusionist" (which is not at all Hollywood fluff)



It's not Hollywood fluff? In that case I'm not watching it!

:oops:


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## PaulR (Sep 4, 2006)

kid-surf @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> Btw--- the color yellow is a crap color.



I agree. If I accidently wear anything that's yellow I become hysterical.

:oops:


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## PaulR (Sep 4, 2006)

Brian Ralston @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> My girlfriend and I saw THE ILLUSIONIST today.



You have a girlfriend Brian? Well done.

:lol:


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## Niah (Sep 4, 2006)

PaulR @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> Brian Ralston @ Mon Sep 04 said:
> 
> 
> > My girlfriend and I saw THE ILLUSIONIST today.
> ...



Yeah man, how ya do that? I mean, being a composer and all... :smile:


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 4, 2006)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> You may not like this, choc0, but I happen to think that Glass will be remembered longer than JW as well.



Hardly...

In fact I'm not even sure that he will outlast Elfman or Zimmer. But John Williams? No way.


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## Niah (Sep 4, 2006)

Christian Marcussen @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Sep 03 said:
> 
> 
> > You may not like this, choc0, but I happen to think that Glass will be remembered longer than JW as well.
> ...



For film score geeks...maybe. But for music lovers in general Glass will be much more remmember than any of those composers as he outgrows beyond the film score/sountrack sphere.

I have no doubt that great iconic movies like star wars and indiana jones will always be remmembered and so will its music, but not the name of the composers.

Everyone knows the music for psycho, but how many people can tell that it was composed by Bernard Herrmann?

Everyone knows the theme to the mission impossible, but how many people can tell that is was composed by Lalo Schifrin?

And how about the music to the godfather?

What I'm saying is that unfortunatly film music is not very popular particulary outside it's medium.

Glass outgrows that medium.


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 4, 2006)

Well - to continue your argument:



> Everyone knows the music for psycho, but how many people can tell that it was composed by Bernard Herrmann?
> 
> Everyone knows the theme to the mission impossible, but how many people can tell that is was composed by Lalo Schifrin?



_Some_ people might know the music "The Concerto Project" but how many people can tell you it was composed by Philip Glass?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 4, 2006)

Christian Marcussen @ 4/9/2006 said:


> Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Sep 03 said:
> 
> 
> > You may not like this, choc0, but I happen to think that Glass will be remembered longer than JW as well.
> ...



IMHO, in 50 yrs, there will have been a couple more Star Wars, ETs, Supermans, etc. There will have been other film music composers who are directly linked to blockbusters that an entire generation identify with. And so that audience will think that their blockbuster theme composers will be remembered for a long time. But in fact, I believe that composers that survive the very harsh filter of time do so because they add something entirely new to music, and, again IMO, film composers don't do that. Sure, Williams, Elfman and Zimmer write GREAT soundtracks, catchy themes, but they are not breaking new ground in any way whatsoever (in fact, breaking new ground is frowned upon for blockbusters, n'est-ce pas?). Wagner, Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, etc, are remembered not only because they wrote beautiful music but because they took big chances that film composers cannot due to the fact that the later are writing as part of the big corporate machine that is Hollywood. If Glass had started as a film composer, some producer would have told him to stop repeating his lines so often... And so Glass, because of what he wrote in the 70s and early 80s, will be remembered not as an uneven film composer, but as one of the 20th Century's most influential American composers, along with Ives, Copland, Reich, etc.

(and I don't even like most of his music!!!)


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## Niah (Sep 4, 2006)

Christian Marcussen @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> Well - to continue your argument:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What's concerto project? :lol:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 4, 2006)

Christian Marcussen @ 4/9/2006 said:


> _Some_ people might know the music "The Concerto Project" but how many people can tell you it was composed by Philip Glass?



Christian, we're talking about the future. In 50 yrs, perhaps only 1 piece by Glass will be remembered. But that's more than most composers can hope for.

Here's an interesting test: 

Find 10 20th-Century-friendly musical friends (not only soundtrack friends, of course!). Ask them to name you 10 composers (film and concert) who were active between 1930 and 1960. How many from this list do you think will be film composers?


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## Hermitage59 (Sep 4, 2006)

Some years ago i heard the following in a record shop, as two teenagers were rifling through the albums.

"Paul McCartney. Wasn't he in another group before Wings?"


:shock:


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 4, 2006)

While you _may_ be right about not having many filmc omposers on the list that is no indication of how it will be in 50 yrs. The music of John Williams has a place in pop-culture which former composers (with a few exceptions) did not have. So even if very few filmcomposers make the cut, I'm pretty sure John Williams has a larger chance that Philip Glass. All speculation of couse


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 4, 2006)

Christian Marcussen @ 4/9/2006 said:


> The music of John Williams has a place in pop-culture which former composers (with a few exceptions) did not have.



And that's exactly my point, Christian!  Name me one popular music composer of the 19th or 18th Century? Nearly all the composers we remember from those centuries wrote music that was not very popular at the time it was written, and if they were successful, it was because they were writing for the elite/educated few. The composer who wrote catchy popular themes sung in the streets would see his/her music remembered decades later (think of the many traditional songs that we still use/sing today) but not his/her name - quick, who wrote Amazing Grace? Maybe in 50 yrs, composers will quote the Jaws or Darth Vader themes to signify a scary moment, but no one will be able to remember who wrote them...


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 4, 2006)

But you think that they will remember the name and work of Philip Glass?


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 4, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> What areas would you suggest I study to fully understand the crappyness of Glass?



Try open-mindness...

First off, I said your POST came off as uneducated, that doesn't imply the writer necesarily is.

Yes, your comment was over the top as most of them are. You have all the latitude in the world to post such outrageous statements and most of the time I am putting up with it (I don't have a choice do I? I like hanging out here)
So forgive me if once in a while I also take the time to tell you your statement smells. 

A few years back, a friend whose sister works for Glass gave me just about every Glass CD that was available on the market. Not a great fan of Glass, I scanned through the CDs and was very surprised to find some orchestral material that was very nice, melodic and showed that the man had a deep understanding of the orchestra. Remember Picasso? In his teens he could paint like a classic too.
So my reference to your statement lacking depth refers to the fact that you might gain some perspective being exposed to the arts beyond the movie medium.
You seem to be very knowledgeable when it comes to movies for sure (a movie groupie may I say) Do you listen to anything aside from movie soundtracks?

If not, much is to be learned by listening to what has been the source of inspiration to most film composers...

And as far as giving you an advice on what to study, it would be much easier to do so if you had posted at least one piece of your music in the many years that you have posted here and at NS...
You seem to own a lot of libraries and yet I can't find a link to your music.
Is your daddy rich?

For all I know you might be TJ and then you could teach me one thing or two (or three)


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 4, 2006)

Christian Marcussen @ 4/9/2006 said:


> But you think that they will remember the name and work of Philip Glass?



Yes. But remember, I was talking about composers remembering him, not the general public. The general public will probably not remember Williams or Glass. _Maybe_ Stravinsky.


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## Ed (Sep 4, 2006)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> The general public will probably not remember Williams



I think they will more likely remember Williams. Maybe not even for his music but because his music has been in many of the movies that the latter half of the 20th century will be remebered for


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## Ed (Sep 4, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Sun Sep 03 said:


> I'm trying to go for the most rolly eyes aimed in my direction award.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 4, 2006)

Ed @ 4/9/2006 said:


> I think they will more likely remember Williams. Maybe not even for his music but because his music has been in many of the movies that the latter half of the 20th century will be remebered for



Now this could also start another topic about which movies will be remembered 50 years from now. Raging Bull or Star Wars? Annie Hall or ET? Supeman or Paris Texas? Raiders of the Lost Ark or Bue Velvet? Schindler's List or Shoa? Full Metal Jacket or Saving Private Ryan? Apocalypse Now or Airplane? The Deer Hunter or The Poseidon Adventure?


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## choc0thrax (Sep 4, 2006)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> Christian Marcussen @ 4/9/2006 said:
> 
> 
> > _Some_ people might know the music "The Concerto Project" but how many people can tell you it was composed by Philip Glass?
> ...



You're not taking into account how times change. I'm guessing concert music was a lot more alive back then. If you ask people in 50 years to name 10 concert and film composers you're probably going to get a list of film and video game composers.  The only reason I even know Glass exists is because he crossed over into film music and I was wondering what that smell was.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 4, 2006)

choc0thrax @ 4/9/2006 said:


> You're not taking into account how times change. I'm guessing concert music was a lot more alive back then.



Well, concert music always was and will be attended by a small public, mostly made up of the rich and the educated. OTOH, the people who write history books or historical web articles today are educated as well. Pop music/culture has a very short memory span. Classical/contemporary culture has a long memory. 
So the popular artists/composers of today will be forgotten in 50 yrs. Not so for the concert/new music composers, IMO. No one wanted to buy Van Gogh's paintings, Bartok died broke, yet both those names will be remembered long after Williams, Elfman and other pop icons are forgotten.



choc0thrax @ 4/9/2006 said:


> The only reason I even know Glass exists is because he crossed over into film music and I was wondering what that smell was.



Now you're really acting like a little punk (and not in a good sense). Why don't you go spend some time in a library and read some music history books. You might gain some perspective and acquire a little humility.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 4, 2006)

Patrick de Caumette @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> choc0thrax @ Mon Sep 04 said:
> 
> 
> > What areas would you suggest I study to fully understand the crappyness of Glass?
> ...



Film music is certainly not the only thing I listen to, now that would be a terrible existence. My teenage years were in the mid to late 90's so I listen to a lot of Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins etc. I only discovered film music by accident. I've listened to plenty of classical music and other types of music. I went to an arts school where you have band and choir. I cannot connect with classical music, it makes me feel nothing. My father is kinda wealthy  but he gives none of it to me. I don't post any of my music for the simple reason that I don't feel the need to. You should be thankful that you don't have to hear any of it, it's quite dreadful stuff.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 4, 2006)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> choc0thrax @ 4/9/2006 said:
> 
> 
> > You're not taking into account how times change. I'm guessing concert music was a lot more alive back then.
> ...



You're probably right, Elvis and the Beatles probably won't be remembered for long. Ned, I like to think of myself as an average-sized punk(I am about 6' tall).


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## choc0thrax (Sep 4, 2006)

Ed @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sun Sep 03 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm trying to go for the most rolly eyes aimed in my direction award.



Is that worms in it's eyes?


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## Niah (Sep 4, 2006)

Funny thing I was just over Apple.com watching the trailer to The Illusionist and all this time I thought we were talking about The Prestige (another film about magic). 
Now I'm sure that both films are different, but watching the trailers they seem very similiar particulary in concept.
It wasn't enough that hollywood is this big mass-production mahcine, now they even release two very similiar films at almost the same time.

:lol:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 4, 2006)

choc0thrax @ 4/9/2006 said:


> You're probably right, Elvis and the Beatles probably won't be remembered for long. Ned,



That's right. As long as we agree that 50 yrs is a short time. They will be forgotten by 2050. Take off your blinders and now name me a popular singer/songwriter from 1880-1920s? Oh, they didn't have cds/lps then? Well guess what, they won't have them in 2050 as well. Oh, and I predict that Pierre Schaeffer will be remembered far longer than the Beatles' Number Nine. Why? He originated the tape manipulation techniques used in that song more than ten yrs prior. And that's what history likes to remember, the originators, not those who merely copied.

BTW and FWIW, I LOVE pop music/culture, but I won't pretend that it has a lastic historical impact.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 4, 2006)

Pierre who?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 4, 2006)

choc0thrax @ 4/9/2006 said:


> Pierre who?



One of my heroes.


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## PaulR (Sep 4, 2006)

Niah @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> Everyone knows the music for Psycho, but how many people can tell that it was composed by Bernard Herrmann?



They do after I've beaten it into them.

I asked a teenager once - 'who wrote Beethoven's 5th?' Didin't know the answer. What's your point?
One guy once asked me why Mozart didn't press his own CD's - and he was being serious.

People like this will always be there - but if I had my way they would carry a mental health warning tattoed to their foreheads. My fucking mental health.

Snort!


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## PaulR (Sep 4, 2006)

Hermitage59 @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> "Paul McCartney. Wasn't he in another group before Wings?" :shock:



Looking forward to seeing something on maybe ITV3 this evening. Should be a hoot - about 10.00pm BST.


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## PaulR (Sep 4, 2006)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> Here's an interesting test:
> 
> Find 10 20th-Century-friendly musical friends (not only soundtrack friends, of course!). Ask them to name you 10 composers (film and concert) who were active between 1930 and 1960. How many from this list do you think will be film composers?



Don't even go there - you can't expect people to know that. They would just say John Williams is the only one I know - and continue on with their obesity diet.

Chomp chomp chomp - dunno mate - just let me stuff this supermarket in my face will ya!


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 4, 2006)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> Christian Marcussen @ 4/9/2006 said:
> 
> 
> > But you think that they will remember the name and work of Philip Glass?
> ...



Ah well - I'm even more certian that a more composers in 50 years will know John Williams than Philip Glass.


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## Hermitage59 (Sep 4, 2006)

Interesting in all of this discussion that we know who Mozart and Beethoven are, even if some don't like the music.

Does it mean a length of time must pass, before the nostalgia enthusiasts, and then historians revive past works into prominence once again, or simply that we have so much variety of genre and writer these days, that it's a little harder to spot and less clear when a real genius emerges? 

And will it be the case in a hundred years, when the discconection from the baroque and classical periods is even wider, that even they will fade into obscurity?



Alex.


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## joaz (Sep 4, 2006)

PaulR @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> Niah @ Mon Sep 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone knows the music for Psycho, but how many people can tell that it was composed by Bernard Herrmann?
> ...


Paul you have outdone yourself this time.
That is a classic.

As far as I am concerned the Glass is half empty, but he will remebered by some, long after certain famous Hollywood writers are long forgotten.

I cant understand why that is much of a problem though.
Are Hollywood composers very concerned about making it into the History books.?
That is a new one on me.

regards Joe


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## Hermitage59 (Sep 4, 2006)

*Williams or Glass*



Christian Marcussen @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon Sep 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Christian Marcussen @ 4/9/2006 said:
> ...



I'm not sure about that, Christian. I think both will fade into obscurity.

Taking a wider view, although film has undeniably impacted on our societies and entertainment desires, it's just one part of a wider musical and cultural pallette. 
And the current convergence of styles into a generic template (IMHO) doesn't tell me it will survive for that long in it's current form, as it sways towards common formulaic presentation in cinematography, graphics, score, etc....

So film score, while interesting for composers interested in that sort of thing, isn't so big (IMHO) as to impact on history for any extended length of time to the same extent as others have in other musical fields.

2 roubles worth,

Alex.


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## PaulR (Sep 4, 2006)

joaz @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> As far as I am concerned the Glass is half empty, but he will remembered by some, long after certain famous Hollywood writers are long forgotten.



Hey Joe

You'll naturally know that Bach was forgotten for years and years and years. These things happen.


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## joaz (Sep 4, 2006)

PaulR @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> joaz @ Mon Sep 04 said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I am concerned the Glass is half empty, but he will remembered by some, long after certain famous Hollywood writers are long forgotten.
> ...


True, Bach's popularity waned bigtime, but various pedagogues kept his memory alive, till a new generation discovered his music again.

It is fun to imagine, future Hollywood Score pedagogues keeping alive the memory of the current crop.
".....When it comes to writing for French Horn, you need only concern yourself with the fact, that 16 horns playing in unison very, very, loud is exciting. 
If you make them play quietly........the Producers don't give you as much money......"
 

regards Joe


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 4, 2006)

Alex: "Paul McCartney. Wasn't he in another group before Wings?"

And yet my daughter really liked the Beatles when she was five years old. That's not a representative quote - their music really does hold up.

Choc: "You're not taking into account how times change. I'm guessing concert music was a lot more alive back then. If you ask people in 50 years to name 10 concert and film composers you're probably going to get a list of film and video game composers."

That's probably true, and it's totally pathetic. The main reason is that everyone's senses have been bombarded so heavily from such a young age that subtlety is useless. Another reason is that concerts are so fricking expensive.

Niah: "Funny thing I was just over Apple.com watching the trailer to The Illusionist and all this time I thought we were talking about The Prestige (another film about magic). 
Now I'm sure that both films are different, but watching the trailers they seem very similiar particulary in concept. 
It wasn't enough that hollywood is this big mass-production mahcine, now they even release two very similiar films at almost the same time. "

The trailer and the movie are usually two different things. (And often the trailer is better. )

Chocbrain: "I cannot connect with classical music, it makes me feel nothing."

If you can listen to, say, Bach, Beethoven, or Mozart and not feel anything, you are in *serious* need of medical attention. There may be drugs that can help you.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 4, 2006)

"Yeah...and Nick B, Craig Sharmat and others who were at the NAMM LANS dinner this past January have met her too."

Yes we have, but when did you start dating the gondolier?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 4, 2006)

budududump


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## kid-surf (Sep 4, 2006)

PaulR @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> kid-surf @ Sun Sep 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Btw--- the color yellow is a crap color.
> ...




My theory has been confirmed... I owe you big time!  


Bri -- Congrats on the girlfriend. Apparently that's a remarkable feat for a "composer". Here I thought women loved guys who sit in a room all day surrounded by computers. What's not sexy about that? :D


Nick --- so is The Illusionist good or not??? :D

The Beatles... they are the first music I ever remember hearing. But what do you suppose The Masters would think of their work? Serious question. And then how would that effect you're take on the music they created. (and no those aren't leading questions... it would seem.  )

I like subtle music and I like loud music, and everything in between. I generally like anything "I like". Simple as that. I don't feel the need to only listen to or surround myself with excellence (aka -- the fine arts) to feel fulfilled. All things in moderation produces a balanced sensibility and out look on life in general. I feel...

The Symphony --- My grandfather took me to the symphony regularly growing up and was an avid supporter. While I enjoyed it, I still found rock more interesting as a kid. In spite of a lot of exposure to classical music. But that could be part of the reason I'm doing film music today. I've probably been to the symphony more than many. And I'll keep that tradition alive with my own kids... when they arrive into this world. My wife's colleague donated $100,000 for the building of the Disney Hall so that underprivileged youth could attend for FREE. So, people DO still care.... maybe not as many as you'd hope.

Hollywood --- often has projects that are very similar set to open around the same time. But more often in development.

Trailers --- it's remarkable how different they'll play the trailers when they know a film sucks.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 4, 2006)

I like rock and most other kinds of music too, but all good music has something subtle about it. And of course *some* people go to concerts, but classical music is still a rich person's sport in spite of the $100K your wife's colleage (college?) donated. It used to be much more popular - at least I have that impression.

We took our daughter to the Toyota Symphonies for Youth for years (before they moved to Disney Hall and gave us seats so annoyingly bad it wasn't worth going). That aside, it's another good program: $10 concerts with the LA Phil.


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## kid-surf (Sep 4, 2006)

I would say you are right about all good music having a subtle quality to it. That would be my assumption as well. (we aren't meaning "quiet" though, yes?)

Yeah, could still be a rich mans sport [concerts]. But I think a lot of it has to do with one's upbringing and how interested the parents/family are in having kids that are worldly (maybe worldly is the wrong word --- "interested"? Interested in life, people and places?). Too many parents are cool with buying the kid a Playstation and letting that raise their kid. I guess I was lucky in that my family wanted me to experience and see different things in this world. They made a considerable effort to allow me those opportunities. 

That sort of upbringing has already effected the younger ones in my family. Took my niece to NYC for her 10th birthday earlier this year. We saw a show and such, and I showed her the city. She was thrilled.... I was thrilled to show her. Much better than a video game. She got a real life experience that will help define who she becomes. Was an expensive birthday present (since we stayed at the St. Regis for 6 days  ) but worth every cent...

Maybe I went a little OT... like I so often do....

Just making the point that kids won't often find these things on their own... thats' part of the problem. IMO..


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## midphase (Sep 4, 2006)

For the record...

I don't think Williams, Elfman or Zimmer have ever been on South Park!







'nuff said!


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## kid-surf (Sep 4, 2006)

Good point! ........ True, Korn _is_ the best band ever....

_"Arrrrre youuuuu readyyyyy......"_







*---CASE CLOSED---*


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## Brian Ralston (Sep 4, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> "Yeah...and Nick B, Craig Sharmat and others who were at the NAMM LANS dinner this past January have met her too."
> 
> Yes we have, but when did you start dating the gondolier?
> .
> ...


crash!
:lol: 

yeah...the Gondolier and I were playing footsy in that photo...hard to tell. But, ya know...
:oops:


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## choc0thrax (Sep 4, 2006)

kid-surf @ Mon Sep 04 said:


> Good point! ........ True, Korn _is_ the best band ever....
> 
> _"Arrrrre youuuuu readyyyyy......"_
> 
> ...



Being a big fan of Korn that is one of my favourite episodes.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 5, 2006)

Sooo i'm wondering with The Prestige being pretty similar to The Illusionist, how the two scores will differ. Chris Nolan's usual David Julyan will be doing The Prestige. I quite liked his score for The Descent. Should be interesting.


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## kid-surf (Sep 5, 2006)

First off --- I find it slightly amusing that 98% of this site probably has no clue what I mean by "Arrrrre youuuuu readyyyyy......" 

But that's ok.... :D


Second -- I like David Julyan's work too. Glad to see him and Nolan working together again.


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## choc0thrax (Sep 5, 2006)

kid-surf @ Tue Sep 05 said:


> First off --- I find it slightly amusing that 98% of this site probably has no clue what I mean by "Arrrrre youuuuu readyyyyy......"



I know what you meant.  I've been known to growl that when drunk.


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## joaz (Sep 5, 2006)

kid-surf @ Tue Sep 05 said:


> First off --- I find it slightly amusing that 98% of this site probably has no clue what I mean by "Arrrrre youuuuu readyyyyy......"


Are Korn some kind of modern beat combo.?
I fear I may have fallen behind the times since Pat Boone stopped making those toe-tappers.
:lol: 

regards Joe


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## Alex W (Sep 5, 2006)

haha which episode is that with Phillip Glass in it??


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## midphase (Sep 5, 2006)

It's the one where everyone is trying to get rid of the "Christmas" in their Winter holidays....so the school puts on a weird "holiday" play and Philip Glass plays the score live.

I'm not sure if Glass actually wrote the piece they used on South Park...but it's pretty hilarious!


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## Evan Gamble (Sep 5, 2006)

williams might not have been in south park but he was in Family Guy-Nominated For best score...at a Porn Festival :wink:


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## choc0thrax (Sep 5, 2006)

Has anyone ever seen the episode of Family Guy that has Randy Newman in a post apocalyptic world singing about everything he sees?


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## Evan Gamble (Sep 5, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Tue Sep 05 said:


> Has anyone ever seen the episode of Family Guy that has Randy Newman in a post apocalyptic world singing about everything he sees?



Red headed lady, Reaching for an apple
Gonna take a bite, nope, nope
She gonna breathe on it first,wipe it on her blouse
She takes a bite


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## midphase (Sep 5, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRcU_aFpq8s


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## Evan Gamble (Sep 5, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtumKUakzlw


hehe i didnt realize till now that the other two "nominees" are the shows 2 composers :lol:


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## Hans Adamson (Sep 5, 2006)

This page takes over 60 seconds to load into IE (not much faster on Firefox) on my WinXP Pro partition but only 2 seconds on my Win98 partition. The comp is an old PIII 1GHz with 512MB RAM. I have tried everything. What's wrong with XP?


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## Brian Ralston (Sep 5, 2006)

Hans Adamson @ Tue Sep 05 said:


> This page takes over 60 seconds to load into IE (not much faster on Firefox) on my WinXP Pro partition but only 2 seconds on my Win98 partition. The comp is an old PIII 1GHz with 512MB RAM. I have tried everything. What's wrong with XP?



How often do you use XP vs. Win98? If you use IE in XP more, maybe the temporary internet files while in XP are about full and bloated. In the IE properties, try deleting the temporary internet files. Clear out all of the caches and see if things start to speed up.


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## Hans Adamson (Sep 5, 2006)

Thanks,

Tried that. Actually, it seems to load the graphics within 5 seconds and I can quickly scroll through the page within that time. Then after 5 sec, boom! the CPU load goes up to 100% for about 60 sec....


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## Brian Ralston (Sep 5, 2006)

When was the last time you scanned you computer for Spyware? It could be some spyware bot that is logging every page you visit and once that page is loaded, it is (in the background of IE), trying to transmit info about what you are viewing back to its mother ship. Just a guess. 

I use Spybot Search & Destroy, AdAware and the new Microsoft WIndows Defender Anti-Spyware programs (all three) to scan and clean my system pretty regularly and everything seems to run smooth. Usually using just one fo the above does not catch eerything. But by using all of them one after the other, and depending on when their definitions were updated, it will catch most everything between the threee of them. 

Of course...if it is only happening on this forum, most likely, there is some hiccup in the software between IE and the forum code. But...ya kever know.


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## Hermitage59 (Sep 5, 2006)

Of course you could always go Linux, and save yourself more trouble.


:mrgreen:


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## kid-surf (Sep 6, 2006)

Glad to hear I'm not alone Choc0... (the "are you ready" thing not the growling.. .I gave up growling way back.  )

Joaz -- Korn is a band that mostly sings love songs and such. They are very similar to Pat Boone. You'd like their song "ADIDAS".  And their song "Twist" has an beautiful melody in the chorus... 


Hans -- just be grateful you aren't on dial-up like me. My DSL is out for two weeks (one more week) while they fix it. Apparently they are totally reliant on the phone company which takes their sweet (ass) time. Interesting to see how much I relied on fast internet for files and so forth. I took it for granted. It's brutal. (And I am supposed to deliver files tomorrow... I guess I could go to Kinko's -- as humiliating as that would be. This really sucks!!! so I'm venting :D Thanks, but sorry --- and then Earthlink tells me that they have another service that is faster and cost less.... $35 a month instead of $69. Apparently they've had me bent over for a good while now. Who knew? Oh, I guess 'they' did.  )

With that off my chest.... 

.......the easy solution to your prob is to use a Mac for all your online stuff. I've never had any probs. My PCs are slaves only. And with the Mac Mini being so cheap. But since I like speed I use a G4 1.25 for online stuff --- my wife uses the Mini and it's noticeably slower, but less probs than a PC I would guess. It servers her well. The Mac Mini's are pretty great for that purpose.

BTW --- to give you a point of reference, this page loads for me in about 1 and 1/2 seconds, and that's on *"dial-up"*. I can't do any sort of files right now though. So, w/60 seconds load time something is severely wrong with your set up.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 6, 2006)

kid, the Mac Mini is noticeably slower than a G4 - and a single one no less?

That must be because the Mini doesn't have a video card, because unless it's translating PPC software to the Intel processor, it should be quite a bit faster.


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## kid-surf (Sep 6, 2006)

Oh, my bad, it's a "dual" 1.25. 

Oops... I forget that technical stuff matters sometimes :D

But the Mac Mini, had I not used a G4 1.25 (dual  ), would suit me just fine. Much better than any PC simply because it's really about "no fuss". It may be a little less responsive, but the "no headaches" part far outweighs that for us here. 

When I asked my wife what operating system they use at her work she said "Idunno, it's a computer". So it's perfect for her.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 6, 2006)

Oh, I bet it's a G4 Mac Mini. That would explain it.

The new Mac Minis (especially with the faster processors they announced this morning) are likely to be more powerful than a dual G4.


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