# Uh oh... Windows 11 Coming Soon - Official Announcement on June 24th



## Reid Rosefelt

Make sure you turn off Automatic Update, if you can.









Microsoft launched Windows 11. Now what? Essential info about the new OS


What's in Windows 11? Who has access to the new OS today? Here's everything we know.




www.cnet.com


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## Technostica

They aren't releasing that until October/November at the earliest as that is their usual release date for the 2nd update of the year.
This is just an unveiling:

*Microsoft to unveil redesigned Windows 10 at June 24 event
Microsoft users are going to get a glimpse of the "next generation of Windows" this month.*


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## easyrider

Not updating windows is for wimps…😂


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## Pictus

To stop Windows Update I recommend this
https://www.sordum.org/downloads/?st-windows-update-blocker


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## sostenuto

(2) Desktops on Insider Preview .... #3 had to have fresh install due to Insider Update hang-up. 
Very displeased, as got on Insider years ago ( Win 8.1 ? ) and believed there was an 'easy' way out. 
NOT !!!
Box to check in Win10 Pro to exit at next full release. Has not happened automatically and best understanding is to also do clean install. Also somehow missed note somewhere that cannot retreat to lower-level Insider version once moving to higher level. Ignorantly tried to resolve other Update hang-ups, by trying to go to Dev Channel from Beta Channel. Now, cannot go back to Beta Channel.

Massive set of VST /VSTi, with herculean effort to start with clean install on remaining (2) DAW(s).

** Wide-open to help /instruction if somehow misunderstand how this can be done, other than clean install. Maybe some help on June 24 ?


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## InLight-Tone

easyrider said:


> Not updating windows is for wimps…😂


Using windoze is for wimps...


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## mscp

I hope they make Windows neat looking. It's the only thing I prefer MacOS over.


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## dzilizzi

My old (10+ years) Windows computer took the initial 10 update well. But I got surprised with an update recently and now my graphics card will only do the overly large display. I usually make a system image before letting it upgrade just in case. It's not my music computer and things run fine. I will keep checking for drivers (Nvidia), just a little frustrating.


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## NekujaK

dzilizzi said:


> My old (10+ years) Windows computer took the initial 10 update well. But I got surprised with an update recently and now my graphics card will only do the overly large display. I usually make a system image before letting it upgrade just in case. It's not my music computer and things run fine. I will keep checking for drivers (Nvidia), just a little frustrating.


Don't know if this might be of help, but my Win 10 general purpose PC shares a keyboard, mouse, and monitor with my Win 7 music PC. I switch between them using a KVM switch.

Switching to the Win 7 PC has never been a problem, but often when switching back to the Win 10 PC, the communication between the Win 10 graphics card and monitor seems to get messed up and everything on the monitor suddenly appears overly large. I can get things back to normal by repeatedly switching back and forth between the two PCs, until eventually the Win 10 PC will re-sync with the monitor and the display size returns to normal. Restarting the Win 10 PC also works.

So maybe you can try restarting your Win 10 machine, or simply unplug and plug the monitor back in. Either of those actions should force your graphics card to re-sync with the monitor.... hopefully, it's that simple. Otherwise, I feel your pain.

Good luck!


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## dzilizzi

NekujaK said:


> Don't know if this might be of help, but my Win 10 general purpose PC shares a keyboard, mouse, and monitor with my Win 7 music PC. I switch between them using a KVM switch.
> 
> Switching to the Win 7 PC has never been a problem, but often when switching back to the Win 10 PC, the communication between the Win 10 graphics card and monitor seems to get messed up and everything on the monitor suddenly appears overly large. I can get things back to normal by repeatedly switching back and forth between the two PCs, until eventually the Win 10 PC will re-sync with the monitor and the display size returns to normal. Restarting the Win 10 PC also works.
> 
> So maybe you can try restarting your Win 10 machine, or simply unplug and plug the monitor back in. Either of those actions should force your graphics card to re-sync with the monitor.... hopefully, it's that simple. Otherwise, I feel your pain.
> 
> Good luck!


I'll try unplugging. I've already restarted. I may check and see if there is a HDMI option for the card/monitor as it is VGA right now. Truthfully, the initial checks I did said the computer would not be compatible with Windows 10. It is an old i7, but I pretty much leave it on all the time, which I think has extended its life. So I was planning on seeing if I could turn it into a server and getting a new desktop.


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## easyrider

dzilizzi said:


> My old (10+ years) Windows computer took the initial 10 update well. But I got surprised with an update recently and now my graphics card will only do the overly large display. I usually make a system image before letting it upgrade just in case. It's not my music computer and things run fine. I will keep checking for drivers (Nvidia), just a little frustrating.


What gfx card is it?


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## vitocorleone123

Well. It could be worse….

It could be yet another MacOS update! 
:-P


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## bill5

TigerTheFrog said:


> Make sure you turn off Automatic Update, if you can.


Sure. All I have to do is never connect to the internet again.

I hate Windows 10 with the burning passion of a thousand suns. I plan to install Windows 7 on my next PC. Screw them and the forced updates, snoopy invasive crap. etc.


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## AudioLoco

This looks like trouble


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## DANIELE

Oh no!


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## easyrider

bill5 said:


> Sure. All I have to do is never connect to the internet again.
> 
> I hate Windows 10 with the burning passion of a thousand suns. I plan to install Windows 7 on my next PC. Screw them and the forced updates, snoopy invasive crap. etc.


You think this but will still install windows?

Why not just use Linux?


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## Technostica

"Why not just use Linux?"

That's like suggesting that a remedy for the flu is a gun to the head!


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## easyrider

Technostica said:


> "Why not just use Linux?"
> 
> That's like suggesting that a remedy for the flu is a gun to the head!


 Now you’re just highlighting you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about…😂


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## Drundfunk

I update Windows all the time. I actually never had any problems with it (but I also customize whatever I can. So for example the "news and interest" feature, I'd get rid of immediately if possible (usually it is)).


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## easyrider

Drundfunk said:


> I update Windows all the time. I actually never had any problems with it.


Most people who do have issues haven’t a clue how to maintain their PC’s and blame the OS.


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## Drundfunk

easyrider said:


> Most people who do have issues haven’t a clue how to maintain their PC’s and blame the OS.


Yeah that's my feeling as well. Windows needs to be customized where possible. Turning off all those data tracking options and turning off useless features etc.


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## easyrider

Drundfunk said:


> Yeah that's my feeling as well. Windows needs to be customized where possible. Turning off all those data tracking options and turning off useless features etc.


Most of these people don’t even know what a BIOS or chipset drivers is!


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## vitocorleone123

AudioLoco said:


> This looks like trouble


1) you can block updates until you hear they don't blow up computers
2) maintain a full-disk, regular backup schedule - just in case (might as well set a restore point, too)
3) don't apply an update when you have work to do 

I'm expecting the update to be easy and smooth. Or I'll just restore the backup on the tiny chance it isn't. Windows updates are pretty much a non-event.


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## bill5

easyrider said:


> You think this but will still install windows?
> 
> Why not just use Linux?


No, I will not "install" Windows. It came with the PC.

I don't use Linux because to varying degrees it's a compatibility headache. Choose your poison, basically.



easyrider said:


> Most people who do have issues haven’t a clue how to maintain their PC’s and blame the OS.


Classy reply. Also completely incorrect. Many people who "have a clue" have had issues with Win 10. It's not exactly a secret.


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## bill5

vitocorleone123 said:


> 1) you can block updates until you hear they don't blow up computers


You cannot block updates on Win 10 Home version, only Pro (and even that's a royal pain). You can only delay them.


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## easyrider

bill5 said:


> You cannot block updates on Win 10 Home version, only Pro (and even that's a royal pain). You can only delay them.


Incorrect,

You can just disable the windows update service in like 10 seconds....


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## Polkasound

easyrider said:


> You can just disable the windows update service in like 10 seconds....


People have complained that this is not a permanent solution as the service will eventually re-enable itself. Extra steps may be needed. From TheWindowsClub.com: _"If Windows Update keeps starting & turning itself back On after turning it Off in Windows 10, then apart from turning off Automatic Windows Update Service (wuauserv), setting a Guest Log on, you need to disable Windows Update Medic Service as well."_

Widows updates can be permanently disabled in Group Policy Editor, but my understanding is that GPE is not available on Home versions.

I'm not a PC wizard so please correct me if I am wrong on any of this.


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## mscp

easyrider said:


> Most people who do have issues haven’t a clue how to maintain their PC’s and blame the OS.


This x 100. And the funny thing is that some of those people counterclaim to have worked with IT or other PC-related jobs for decades.


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## easyrider

Polkasound said:


> People have complained that this is not a permanent solution as the service will eventually re-enable itself. Extra steps may be needed. From TheWindowsClub.com: _"If Windows Update keeps starting & turning itself back On after turning it Off in Windows 10, then apart from turning off Automatic Windows Update Service (wuauserv), setting a Guest Log on, you need to disable Windows Update Medic Service as well."_
> 
> Widows updates can be permanently disabled in Group Policy Editor, but my understanding is that GPE is not available on Home versions.
> 
> I'm not a PC wizard so please correct me if I am wrong on any of this.


Most create a batch file….or don’t run Home edition….

You can upgrade to pro for free if you have and old windows 7 pro licence to hand.

it really is a non issue.


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## easyrider

Phil81 said:


> This x 100. And the funny thing is that some of those people counterclaim to have worked with IT or other PC-related jobs for decades.


😂


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## Polkasound

easyrider said:


> Most people who do have issues haven’t a clue how to maintain their PC’s and blame the OS.





easyrider said:


> Most of these people don’t even know what a BIOS or chipset drivers is!





easyrider said:


> Most create a batch file….or don’t run Home edition….


Out of curiosity, who are these "most people" you're often referring to? VI-Control members? DAW users? The general PC-using population?


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## easyrider

Polkasound said:


> Out of curiosity, who are these "most people" you're often referring to? VI-Control members? DAW users? The general PC-using population?


Most of the problems I have fixed for people over the years after building countless PCs is user error.


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## mscp

easyrider said:


> Most of the problems I have fixed for people over the years after building countless PCs is user error.



Ironically, there are a lot of people with far more complicated music setups (eurorack/5U modular, ...), and they seem to never complain about building those things regardless of how finicky they are. Windows haters must have some kind of childhood trauma they can't get past. I had a Mac throughout my childhood, so no trauma. lol.

Update: My MacOS9 used to crash every now and then as I remember, and that was a pet peeve of mine...still..no trauma. Decades later...Windows setup running Pro Tools HDX...beautiful. Mac setup sharing the PT HDX setup....beautiful. Crashing? Yes. Fault? Mine. lol.


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## Polkasound

easyrider said:


> Most of the problems I have fixed for people over the years after building countless PCs is user error.


Gotcha. I had inadvertently got the impression that if a Windows update caused a problem, it was OK to blame the user's lack of knowledge for their inability to avert or repair it. Most PC users I know are regular folk who don't know batch files from Softbatch Cookies, or a chipset driver from Minnie Driver. What may be a non-issue to you or someone of your background may absolutely be an issue to others. So as a general rule, when I'm helping someone with computer issues, I never assert or imply that something is easy. I just explain what they need to know.


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## José Herring

I don't scare easily but now I'm really afraid.


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## Ian Dorsch

Sounds like there's a decent chance that this will be an announcement of a new Windows version (Win 11?) and not just an update.

I waited years to upgrade to Windows 10, and when I did I found it to be worse for audio production than Win 7 in a wide and colorful variety of ways. I'm a tech savvy user but if I had known what was in store for me with Win 10, I would have found a way to hold off for longer.


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## sostenuto

Ian Dorsch said:


> Sounds like there's a decent chance that this will be an announcement of a new Windows version (Win 11?) and not just an update.
> 
> I waited years to upgrade to Windows 10, and when I did I found it to be worse for audio production than Win 7 in a wide and colorful variety of ways. I'm a tech savvy user but if I had known what was in store for me with Win 10, I would have found a way to hold off for longer.


Go back to even pre - Win95 days, but DAW only since 2011 /Reaper. Do not have stringent DAW application needs as many, but use daily. Never major issues with any of (3) home-built Desktops; older i7, (2) i5 quads. Will be helpful to know which 'notable' audio production needs are negatively impacted by Win10 Pro. Wondering if there are decent workarounds.


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## easyrider

Polkasound said:


> Gotcha. I had inadvertently got the impression that if a Windows update caused a problem, it was OK to blame the user's lack of knowledge for their inability to avert or repair it. Most PC users I know are regular folk who don't know batch files from Softbatch Cookies, or a chipset driver from Minnie Driver. What may be a non-issue to you or someone of your background may absolutely be an issue to others. So as a general rule, when I'm helping someone with computer issues, I never assert or imply that something is easy. I just explain what they need to know.


In the context of users in this forum. If you can operate and configure a highly complex piece of software like a DAW then updating windows is Non issue.😂


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## easyrider

José Herring said:


> I don't scare easily but now I'm really afraid.


Why? 😂


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## José Herring

easyrider said:


> Why? 😂


Let's just say I haven't had the best of luck upgrading OS in the past. Something I have always breaks.


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## vitocorleone123

José Herring said:


> Let's just say I haven't had the best of luck upgrading OS in the past. Something I have always breaks.


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## Frederick

dzilizzi said:


> My old (10+ years) Windows computer took the initial 10 update well. But I got surprised with an update recently and now my graphics card will only do the overly large display. I usually make a system image before letting it upgrade just in case. It's not my music computer and things run fine. I will keep checking for drivers (Nvidia), just a little frustrating.


In case you recently also happened to do an update of your NVidia drivers, then perhaps you can try to go back to the previous version as that was probably the one Microsoft used during their tests before publishing their update. Maybe...


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## Nick Batzdorf

easyrider said:


> Why not just use Linux?



One reason for me is that nothing I use runs under it, or if it does there would be no way to get tech support.



easyrider said:


> Most people who do have issues haven’t a clue how to maintain their PC’s and blame the OS.



If you're talking about personality issues, I'm an example who proves the first part but not the second (I don't blame Windows for that).


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## José Herring

Ian Dorsch said:


> Sounds like there's a decent chance that this will be an announcement of a new Windows version (Win 11?) and not just an update.
> 
> I waited years to upgrade to Windows 10, and when I did I found it to be worse for audio production than Win 7 in a wide and colorful variety of ways. I'm a tech savvy user but if I had known what was in store for me with Win 10, I would have found a way to hold off for longer.


I did the same for my main DAW. I only upgrade at the start of the pandemic because all of a sudden I had time on my hands and wanted to use Cubase 11. Found my old Cubase 9.5 on Windows 7 to be way more stable though lately Windows 11 is getting very stable on Windows 10 now. 

I think the direction that the Windows OS is going in may not be the best for us. More integration with the Web but also it's not the OS fault. I have more and more programs that are getting difficult to run unless online which I was able to avoid for a decade on Windows 7. Should be interesting though.


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## Hadrondrift

Why can't they just leave me alone with their constant updating?  A _very_ long time ago I used to work with Commodore 64 and Atari ST. Both had their operating systems in ROM, burned in unchangeable. THAT is what I call stability... 

It feels like every half a year a stranger comes into my carefully structured, neat and tidy room unasked, opens the drawers, scatters their contents around the room, lays a new ugly rug, opens the cupboards and rearranges their contents. Then he cheerfully exclaims on his way out, »Hurray! That was the new feature update! Have a nice day!« and slams the door behind him. Not sharing his joy, I then spend the rest of the week cleaning up.
The very vague Microsoft announcements talk a lot about "collaboration", the Windows App Store seems to have been heavily reworked. Looks like Microsoft is going full cloud now. I guess running Windows offline won't be easily possible anymore, there will probably be a requirement for a Microsoft account, similar to Android on mobile phones. Microsoft has always tried to push this, but so far you could thankfully decline with "not for now" or so.

Maybe they will manage to improve the ugliest operating system in the world a bit, but I do not have high hopes. Commercial operating systems are no longer developed under the maxim of making the user's life easier and/or to please him, but to open up new sources of income and business models for the manufacturer. Of course, this is articulated differently to the outside, the narrative is "everything will be suuper great for the user", but that is pure marketing babble.

It's an incredible pity that Linux is such a completely useless niche in the music sector.


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## Polkasound

easyrider said:


> In the context of users in this forum. If you can operate and configure a highly complex piece of software like a DAW then updating windows is Non issue.😂


OK. I respect your opinion, but will kindly have to disagree. Understanding the technical aspects of computers and software, and making music with one piece of software, are two different skill sets in my opinion. Many people have both, but I know plenty of musicians who have learned how to use DAWs, yet have little clue how their computer works. So if a Windows update makes their system unusable or more difficult to use, they will most definitely have an issue.


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## vitocorleone123

Polkasound said:


> OK. I respect your opinion, but will kindly have to disagree. Understanding the technical aspects of computers and software, and making music with one piece of software, are two different skill sets in my opinion. Many people have both, but I know plenty of musicians who have learned how to use DAWs, yet have little clue how their computer works. So if a Windows update makes their system unusable or more difficult to use, they will most definitely have an issue.


That said, any computer user should be making regular backups (full disk backups + recovery methods, not just files) - esp. before installing major OS updates. You don't need skills for that. That won't probably fix the root issue with the update, but at least there's no longer an immediate issue of a broken computer.


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## easyrider

José Herring said:


> Let's just say I haven't had the best of luck upgrading OS in the past. Something I have always breaks.


Example ?


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## easyrider

Polkasound said:


> OK. I respect your opinion, but will kindly have to disagree. Understanding the technical aspects of computers and software, and making music with one piece of software, are two different skill sets in my opinion. Many people have both, but I know plenty of musicians who have learned how to use DAWs, yet have little clue how their computer works. So if a Windows update makes their system unusable or more difficult to use, they will most definitely have an issue.


Windows update can be rolled back. But I’m trying to think of anything major happening to my PC after an update….I honestly can’t think of one.


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## Polkasound

vitocorleone123 said:


> You don't need skills for that.


My 84-year-old mother might disagree, LOL. And I don't mean that to come across as condescending, but I happen to literally know soooo many elderly and otherwise technically-challenged PC users. Some are musicians making music, but others, like my mom, are just on it for Facebook and email. To people like them, PCs are complicated, mysterious boxes of technology that allow them to see photos, hear music, and post messages.

People like the ones above rely entirely on others to keep their computers and software programs working, but what about novice users who know a little bit? And intermediate users who know a little more? A lot of VI-Control members are technically inclined, but I'm sure there are also quite a few members and lurkers out there who are novices and intermediate users.

My long-winded point is that since there are PC users out there who don't really understand Windows or their PCs, it might behoove us more experienced PC users to put ourselves in their shoes for a moment before we smugly declare how something is so simple that it's not even an issue.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Polkasound said:


> there are PC users out there who don't really understand Windows or their PCs



I plead guilty, and it's not like I have no technical background.

You have to work on Windows machines to remember where all the things are buried. I've had them for years, but I just use them as sample slaves.

While I do have an educated idea where to look for things, if you think I remember, say, how to set up a fixed IP number... nope.


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## lux

me:


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## Wedge

bill5 said:


> Sure. All I have to do is never connect to the internet again.
> 
> I hate Windows 10 with the burning passion of a thousand suns. I plan to install Windows 7 on my next PC. Screw them and the forced updates, snoopy invasive crap. etc.


I would reccomend looking into upgrading to Win10 Enterprise LTSC before reinstallling Win7, it's so much cleaner, only security updates, ect. And yes you can get a license without the high seas. https://community.spiceworks.com/to...ions-for-purchasing-a-windows-10-ltsc-license


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## mscp

Ian Dorsch said:


> Sounds like there's a decent chance that this will be an announcement of a new Windows version (Win 11?) and not just an update.


Not a chance unless Microsoft takes what they said a while ago back. Windows 10 will be the last Windows version we will see.



Ian Dorsch said:


> I waited years to upgrade to Windows 10, and when I did I found it to be worse for audio production than Win 7 in a wide and colorful variety of ways. I'm a tech savvy user but if I had known what was in store for me with Win 10, I would have found a way to hold off for longer.


What kind of issues are you encountering?


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## Wedge

bill5 said:


> You cannot block updates on Win 10 Home version, only Pro (and even that's a royal pain). You can only delay them.


I'm not a hundred percent sure since I haven't ran Pro in a few years but this used to work (it still does with the Enterprise version) Use Group Policy Editor (windows_key + type the 'gpe' - it will come up as Edit Group Policy). Computer Cofiguration > Windows Components > Windows Update. Open 'Configure Automatic Update' and in the upper left, change it to disabled. Click Apply and OK. Then reboot to have it take affect. This permamently disables automatic update in win10 enterprise and ltsc, it used to work in pro but I'm not sure it still does. Manual updates still work as expected.


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## Kony

It doesn't work in Win 10 Home version anymore. You can disable the auto update but you can't stop the process itself (which you used to be able to do) - so the process will still launch the update. I found this out the hard way recently.


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## Quasar

bill5 said:


> Sure. All I have to do is never connect to the internet again.


This. Connect to the web with a web machine that has no important content.


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## dzilizzi

easyrider said:


> Most people who do have issues haven’t a clue and blame the OS.


Yes, it is Windows fault I burned the toast this morning. And stubbed my toe. And spent money at the craft store. 

Other than the old video card issue - and I will try out some of the suggestions - my biggest complaint was when an update with no googled issues changed my system from a local user to my MS account. If I remember correctly, it forced the change by not giving me the local account option. I thought I lost all my files only to find them under my MS account. I still sign on to the local account, but everything saves to the MS account files. Strange. I'm sure I could fix it, but I haven't bothered yet. I mostly save my documents to a second drive (not the OS) anyway.


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## vitocorleone123

Polkasound said:


> My 84-year-old mother might disagree, LOL. And I don't mean that to come across as condescending, but I happen to literally know soooo many elderly and otherwise technically-challenged PC users. Some are musicians making music, but others, like my mom, are just on it for Facebook and email. To people like them, PCs are complicated, mysterious boxes of technology that allow them to see photos, hear music, and post messages.
> 
> People like the ones above rely entirely on others to keep their computers and software programs working, but what about novice users who know a little bit? And intermediate users who know a little more? A lot of VI-Control members are technically inclined, but I'm sure there are also quite a few members and lurkers out there who are novices and intermediate users.
> 
> My long-winded point is that since there are PC users out there who don't really understand Windows or their PCs, it might behoove us more experienced PC users to put ourselves in their shoes for a moment before we smugly declare how something is so simple that it's not even an issue.


That’s not “skills” - that’s putting in effort to understand basics of using a computer. Like backups. Not putting the tiny amount of effort in about a tool is a choice. Of course they shouldn’t need to, but that doesn’t change what is currently the norm.

And, yes, user research is literally my (successful) career.


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## easyrider

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, it is Windows fault I burned the toast this morning. And stubbed my toe. And spent money at the craft store.
> 
> Other than the old video card issue - and I will try out some of the suggestions - my biggest complaint was when an update with no googled issues changed my system from a local user to my MS account. If I remember correctly, it forced the change by not giving me the local account option. I thought I lost all my files only to find them under my MS account. I still sign on to the local account, but everything saves to the MS account files. Strange. I'm sure I could fix it, but I haven't bothered yet. I mostly save my documents to a second drive (not the OS) anyway.


Do you login with your MS account?


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## dzilizzi

easyrider said:


> Do you login with your MS account?


Yes, they didn't give me a choice. After looking at the computer, I'm thinking when I first set it up, I may not have had the option. I did show a local account, so I did create one. I do think they make it impossible to have a local account. last update I remember having to Google it because the usual use another account wasn't there. 

Nvidia GT 420


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## Polkasound

vitocorleone123 said:


> putting in effort to understand basics of using a computer


For some people, especially the elderly, this can be extremely challenging and sometimes even impossible. My mom, for example, can navigate the scroll bar on Facebook and send/receive emails, but after 20 years of using a PC, she still cannot grasp how her computer, software, or the internet works. Her friends are the same exact way. The brains of some older folks simply cannot conceptualize digital information... how it is sent, stored, copied, etc. So when you show them how to do something that's simple and basic to most PC users, like put a file on a USB stick, you might as well be teaching them how to land a Boeing 737.

For everyone who _can_ learn, everyone is going to learn at a different pace. Some will spend years learning as they go, some will take courses, and some will read books. Backing up documents to a USB stick is fundamental to using a PC, but so many other tasks, like navigating to hidden folders to back up email profiles, making disk images, rolling back updates, or changing settings in Windows, requires more and more knowledge.

So when I see easyrider refer to setting up Windows from an MS account as a "mistake" like he did above, it makes me cringe because a mistake only happens when you screw something up that you already learned, or when you ignore common sense. Neither apply to dzilizzi here. Microsoft purposely takes advantage of the average PC user by making it so that only experienced PC users and software installers will know how to undo and disable all the crap Microsoft pulls. So, whose fault is that? (If you ask me, it's the OS.)

A little background: In high school, I could not grasp algebra to save my life. It was the only course I repeatedly failed. When I got to college, I happened to get a teacher who taught it in a different way, and I started getting it. I passed both beginners and intermediate algebra with straight As. I know what it's like to not understand something that may seem basic to others, so if there's anyone who doesn't understand PCs, polka music, studio recording, tennis, or radio scanning as well as I do, it's just not in my nature to talk to them as if not having a higher level of knowledge is a mistake.

My apologies, easyrider, for kinda singling you out here. Everyone has their own way of helping, and I trust that's all you're trying to do. Thanks for understanding.


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## Rasoul Morteza

I'm really content with my LTSC... even though I have two regular licenses sitting around. I'm totally for paying extra premiums rather than becoming the product itself as a user, TBH freemiums are a horrible idea. :(


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## easyrider

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, they didn't give me a choice. After looking at the computer, I'm thinking when I first set it up, I may not have had the option. I did show a local account, so I did create one. I do think they make it impossible to have a local account. last update I remember having to Google it because the usual use another account wasn't there.
> 
> Nvidia GT 420


I‘ve never used a MS account. When setting up windows you click skip when it asks then you create your local account.

You Could try a legacy driver form the OEM website for that gfx card and run it in compatibility mode. Might work.


----------



## thevisi0nary

easyrider said:


> Most people who do have issues haven’t a clue how to maintain their PC’s and blame the OS.


Win10 earned a bad reputation by coming from rock solid Win7 to an OS with really unstable update releases and insane background usage the first couple of years. I will give them due credit that this has improved considerably the last few years.


----------



## TomislavEP

I have to say that I have mainly positive experiences with Windows 10. I was an early adopter of the OS and all the major updates so far and never had any serious issues on my studio rig and all other computers that I use. I've even had that infamous update from a few years back that brought havoc for so many users out there installed, with zero problems.

Of course, not everyone is that lucky when using Windows, but I think that this general "hatred" and negativity toward updates is often a bit exaggerated. Though you must certainly be careful and do regular backups and maintenance.

I for one I'm looking forward to the next big Windows 10 update, especially in the cosmetic department.


----------



## Technostica

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, they didn't give me a choice. After looking at the computer, I'm thinking when I first set it up, I may not have had the option. I did show a local account, so I did create one. I do think they make it impossible to have a local account. last update I remember having to Google it because the usual use another account wasn't there.


I haven't installed all the different versions so can't comment on whether they removed the option for a local account on some of them. 
But they definitely made it a lot harder to discern that a local account was even a possibility with some versions. 
I was fooled by that once but realised my mistake and did a fresh install before I had done more than install the base O/S. 
One of the many reasons that MS annoy the heck out of me. 
At least I never had to pay for the bloody thing.


----------



## Polkasound

TomislavEP said:


> I think that this general "hatred" and negativity toward updates is often a bit exaggerated.


When updates do nothing but quietly improve the functionality of a product, no one complains. But that's too often not the case with Windows 10. For example...



TomislavEP said:


> that infamous update from a few years back that brought havoc for so many users out there



The problems updates can potentially cause are part of the hatred, but some of the hatred is reserved for how the updates are forced upon users. Although updates can be delayed, they can't be indefinitely delayed without advanced skills.

A friend of mine who owns a recording studio was doing fine with Windows 7. At the upgrade to Windows 10 nag screen, he thought he was saying NO to the Win 10 upgrade, but inadvertently only delayed the upgrade. One day he woke up to Windows 10, and his studio was shut down for days while he cleaned up the mess.

Some might argue he should have been more careful of what he was clicking, but Microsoft is not averse to using underhanded tactics and trickery to get people to do what they want. Just like Amazon makes their "Try Prime" button look like the button to dismiss the offer, and how social networking services bury some privacy options, Microsoft plays the same rotten game.

Here's another small example:



Technostica said:


> But they definitely made it a lot harder to discern that a local account was even a possibility with some versions.



So I don't think the hatred toward Windows updates is exaggerated. Microsoft earned 100% of it.

I like Windows 10 and have had almost no issues with it, but _only_ because I knew what I was doing when I installed it and spent days disabling a boatload of invasive features, and because I'm using a third-party program to make it look and feel just like Windows XP.


----------



## easyrider

Polkasound said:


> When updates do nothing but quietly improve the functionality of a product, no one complains. But that's too often not the case with Windows 10.
> 
> A friend of mine who owns a recording studio was doing fine with Windows 7. At the upgrade to Windows 10 nag screen, he thought he was saying NO to the Win 10 upgrade, but inadvertently only delayed the upgrade. One day he woke up to Windows 10, and his studio was shut down for days while he cleaned up the mess.


So he didn’t have a system backup?

He owned a recording studio and didn’t have a backup solution?

I have Snap Shot of a new windows install with all my software installed ready. I basically swap out the OS drive and I’m back up and running.

it’s built into windows 7 and also windows 10









How to make a full backup of your Windows 10 PC


You should always create a full backup to safeguard your files and Windows 10 setup. This guide will show you the instructions to complete this task with the System Image Backup tool.




www.windowscentral.com


----------



## mscp

Polkasound said:


> I like Windows 10 and have had almost no issues with it, but _only_ because I knew what I was doing when I installed it and spent days disabling a boatload of invasive features, and because I'm using a third-party program to make it look and feel just like Windows XP.


It took me literally 2 minutes to turn everything off, and I'm pretty ignorant about Win10 (still). Minimum effort is indeed required to have a solid W10 machine running well.


----------



## sostenuto

easyrider said:


> So he didn’t have a system backup?
> 
> He owned a recording studio and didn’t have a backup solution?
> 
> I have Snap Shot of a new windows install with all my software installed ready. I basically swap out the OS drive and I’m back up and running.
> 
> it’s built into windows 7 and also windows 10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to make a full backup of your Windows 10 PC
> 
> 
> You should always create a full backup to safeguard your files and Windows 10 setup. This guide will show you the instructions to complete this task with the System Image Backup tool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.windowscentral.com


Shallow familiarity with your example, but now highly concerned, preparing for Fall, 2021 release.
_Chained_ to Insider Preview _ latest Build 21390.co _ and believing there will be no easy /exit .... just clean install .... now or later. Brain-fade keeping best process fuzzy.

Have DAW #2, already with clean install, but no purchased content for Program Files /Program Data.
Major Sample Files, etc., still fine on several SSD/HDD. DAW(s) 1 & 2 very similar hardware builds.
Both running well now. Hoping to do trial run well before 'forced' Update in Fall. _C:\ is 1TB SSD, w/515GB used._

Also __ have 8TB NAS hardwired to both PC(s). Slower, but can definitely put Backups there. After Fall Update, DAW2 will be cleaned and repurposed for VEP or ??
Thoughts ?


----------



## dzilizzi

easyrider said:


> I‘ve never used a MS account. When setting up windows you click skip when it asks then you create your local account.
> 
> You Could try a legacy driver form the OEM website for that gfx card and run it in compatibility mode. Might work.


I downloaded a Windows 10 driver, but messed up on the restart and it started updating. Although update wasn't an option. I went to bed before it finished. this one is a home version. Skip doesn't always show up as an option right away. And? I'm getting to the point I don't really care any more. The Chinese government has all my information from a hack a number of years ago. And I was in the Experian hack a few years ago as well. Privacy is gone. Does it matter they know how much I spend on VI's every year? I am pretty boring.


----------



## Polkasound

easyrider said:


> So he didn’t have a system backup?
> 
> He owned a recording studio and didn’t have a backup solution?


I don't know the specific details other than that he could not undo the surprise installation of 10. I can assure you if he knew what Microsoft was going to do to him, he would have called me or called a tech to help him either circumvent or prepare for it.

We can argue all day that he should have had a backup system, and I'll agree with that, but none of this mess would have happened if Microsoft had simply given him a very clear, unmistakable option to indefinitely postpone or cancel the upgrade.

For the record, he is a professional studio engineer who uses a PC. He's not professional PC user who has a recording studio.




easyrider said:


> I have Snap Shot of a new windows install with all my software installed ready. I basically swap out the OS drive and I’m back up and running.


I have a swappable backup OS drive, too. But offer advice like that to PC users, and this is what many of them will hear:

_"If you want to show a wide-ranging plasticity of vascular smooth muscle cells (VSMCs) in atherosclerotic plaque to see if VSMCs can modulate their phenotypes in response to plaque microenvironment, just grows some genetic lineage mapping experiments. Easy peasy."_

It would be nice to insist every PC user have a minimum level of proficiency before operating a PC, but in the real world, that's just not the case. Since it's not a crime for a less experienced PC user to assume a Windows update won't f*ck up their PC, I'm happy to blame Microsoft for when it does.




Phil81 said:


> It took me literally 2 minutes to turn everything off, and I'm pretty ignorant about Win10 (still). Minimum effort is indeed required to have a solid W10 machine running well.


I agree that Windows 10 is solid and runs well. And yes, it only takes a few minutes to go though privacy settings and turn everything off that Microsoft lets you turn off. Suffice it to say, I did a _little_ more than that.


----------



## easyrider

Polkasound said:


> For the record, he is a professional studio engineer who uses a PC. He's not professional PC user who has a recording studio.


This is key here....And I really don't want to come across as a know it all....But any Professional has backups of sessions, samples and project files for recall.

The same should be that of the fundamental part of his setup.....The OS


----------



## Polkasound

I'm positive he has all his project/session files backed up. Backing up the OS, in my opinion, is a more advanced process for some user to grasp. Teaching Aunt Millie how to back up her cat's photos to a thumb drive is not quite on the same level as showing her how to back up her operating system and restore it if needed. In a perfect world, _every_ PC user would know how to back up and roll back their OS, but there are a lot of Aunt Millies out there... even working as professionals. I agree that backing up the OS is important for anyone relying on their PC for business, but I also fully understand and accept that some of those PC users simply don't know that, and therefore I won't blame them if a Windows update screws up their PC.


----------



## mscp

Polkasound said:


> I'm positive he has all his project/session files backed up. Backing up the OS, in my opinion, is a more advanced process for some user to grasp. Teaching Aunt Millie how to back up her cat's photos to a thumb drive is not quite on the same level as showing her how to back up her operating system and restore it if needed. In a perfect world, _every_ PC user would know how to back up and roll back their OS, but there are a lot of Aunt Millies out there... even working as professionals. I agree that backing up the OS is important for anyone relying on their PC for business, but I also fully understand and accept that some of those PC users simply don't know that, and therefore I won't blame them if a Windows update screws up their PC.


This reminds me (in some weird way) of this one time I spent talking to a NEVE 8028 desk repairman listening to his adamant opinion that he wouldn't touch PCs because Windows was finicky...lol.


----------



## Mike Greene

easyrider said:


> This is key here....And I really don't want to come across as a know it all....But any Professional has backups of sessions, samples and project files for recall.


This forum (and the entire internet) is filled with _"Help!!! How do I recover data from my crashed drive???"_ posts by people who *didn't* maintain backups, including me. Sure, we _should_ have been faithful with our backups, but ... human nature and all that. Even for professionals.

For that matter, I just realized I haven't hit Save all day on a song I'm working on. (I pay the price for that from time to time, but it still happens a lot.) In fact, that song is part of a theme package for a daytime court show and I have no backup anywhere of my Logic sessions. Two weeks' worth. My point being that real life professionals are often a lot less "professional" than you might think they are. 

<EDIT> Backing up to Google Drive now. That was pretty stupid. But, like I said ...


----------



## dzilizzi

As a regular user of system image, it is getting harder and harder to find. It is still there, but MS wants you to use file history instead. They make you go through multiple sub menus to get to it. Kind of like some of the power settings also. Those are the two things I seem to adjust the most that aren't easily accessible. (i.e. Do not turn off USB power) It was much easier on Windows 7.


----------



## easyrider

dzilizzi said:


> As a regular user of system image, it is getting harder and harder to find. It is still there, but MS wants you to use file history instead. They make you go through multiple sub menus to get to it. Kind of like some of the power settings also. Those are the two things I seem to adjust the most that aren't easily accessible. (i.e. Do not turn off USB power) It was much easier on Windows 7.


Type Backup into search (left hand bottom)

Click go to backup and Restore (windows7)

Boom

Took me one click


----------



## sostenuto

dzilizzi said:


> As a regular user of system image, it is getting harder and harder to find. It is still there, but MS wants you to use file history instead. They make you go through multiple sub menus to get to it. Kind of like some of the power settings also. Those are the two things I seem to adjust the most that aren't easily accessible. (i.e. Do not turn off USB power) It was much easier on Windows 7.


Agree .... and defiinitely NOT enamored with latest top MS mgmt. Look back now and ponder individuals' 'progress' since MS glory days ..... yet, no relevant entity has arisen to challenge MS.
Retired HP guy here, and never tempted by anything other than Windows.
This is a notable issue ... NO Competition .... at least YET !

Comprehend protection of developer content, but disgusted with Windows inability to provide 'typical' Users with ability to enhance /upgrade OS, _while_ keeping legitimately-purchased content. This should not be as difficult as MS seems to suggest.


----------



## trumpoz

The guy who built my PC turned off automatic updates. He will test the new Windows and Ill ask him a month or 2 after it is released if it is safe to upgrade.

Serious after-sales support for all his clients.


----------



## TomislavEP

Polkasound said:


> Some might argue he should have been more careful of what he was clicking, but Microsoft is not averse to using underhanded tactics and trickery to get people to do what they want. Just like Amazon makes their "Try Prime" button look like the button to dismiss the offer, and how social networking services bury some privacy options, Microsoft plays the same rotten game.





Polkasound said:


> I like Windows 10 and have had almost no issues with it, but _only_ because I knew what I was doing when I installed it and spent days disabling a boatload of invasive features, and because I'm using a third-party program to make it look and feel just like Windows XP.



I quite agree. With Windows 10, their attempts to force and pry into are worse than ever before. I also dislike the fact that OS is not clean and streamlined after the initial install. You have to roll up the sleaves in order to clean it of all kinds of unnecessary junk and also spend quite some time in order to optimize the system to the max, both in the privacy and performance departments. But it is definitely possible for us who are advanced users, though surely quite a hassle for a typical one. However, after this process, I find Windows 10 to be a very stable and reliable system in comparison to the previous versions, including Windows 7.

Speaking of aesthetics, to each their own. Personally, I like the general look of Windows 10, especially in the dark mode. On my DAW, the design blends really well with all the software I use. Of, course there is always room for further improvement, which is why I'm looking forward to the next update (if all goes well).


----------



## Phaedraz

trumpoz said:


> The guy who built my PC turned off automatic updates. He will test the new Windows and Ill ask him a month or 2 after it is released if it is safe to upgrade.
> 
> Serious after-sales support for all his clients.


Any thought about the security of your system? If your computer is not connected to internet then I understand if you turn them off. Otherwise you are basically always exposed to some security issue.


----------



## easyrider

trumpoz said:


> The guy who built my PC turned off automatic updates. He will test the new Windows and Ill ask him a month or 2 after it is released if it is safe to upgrade.
> 
> Serious after-sales support for all his clients.


I would see this as unprofessional. Sounds to be he doesn’t want any comeback and hassle should a noob perform an update.


----------



## dzilizzi

I would actually be okay with not keeping my music computer up to date. I don't surf the web on it. I do download from music sites where I've bought stuff, usually on my other, surfing computer. This is what my laptop is for. BUT, if I only had one computer? I would do all the security updates. Just not the feature updates. 

I really miss that they don't separate them out anymore. I used to check each update out, do the security ones and wait for feedback on the others before updating. That way, I missed out on a few lovely updates that crashed other people's computers and only got the fixed versions.

edit: fixed a mis-type


----------



## sostenuto

Fortunate to be Home Studio user ( daily, serious activity ) yet hardwire connection to 60Mbs internet. Truly impressed with challenges for Professional /Commercial Users and their vastly different concerns.

Have never had notable issues with regular Updates, or virus problems. Always check for MS Defender updated ( several times each day ). Not pleased with many Win10 Pro behaviors mentioned here, but simply no options __ as unwilling to accept non-modular hardware.
(3) Win10 Pro Desktop PC(s) running daily for diverse needs. Always preferring MS acceptance of long-standing WW - User complaints and preferences ! Hoping for notable Oct, 2021 changes. 🙏🏻


----------



## lastmessiah

Never had a single problem with Windows 10, and I always update as soon as available and even run the Insider builds. Sometimes I wonder just what it is people do to their computers when I see them moaning about Windows updates and such.


----------



## Technostica

lastmessiah said:


> Never had a single problem with Windows 10, and I always update as soon as available and even run the Insider builds. Sometimes I wonder just what it is people do to their computers when I see them moaning about Windows updates and such.


The thing is, there are literally millions of different configurations of PCs running Windows.
You are in the camp with no issues, but there are other camps over yonder hill where they burn effigies of Bill Gates.

Poor old Bill, he can't get a break.
People still blame him for Windows even though he no longer works for MS.
Some seem to blame him for Covid 19 and other strange theories.
His wife has departed and he's down to his last 100 Billion or so and that's before the divorce.
What he needs is a nice holiday.
Maybe he can take a nice relaxing trip with Jeff Bezos, into space.
He'll have a nice view of space through the Window.
Poor Bill, he can't get away from Windows even in space.


----------



## Loïc D

Aaaah Windows....

I have a PC for my daytime job with a steady install (I don’t install new apps and restrict myself to very few apps actually).

I admire the way it’s lagging for some minutes and shuts all Explorer windows at once and taskbar and restarts them.
I praise the way it gets slow over time.
I worship the way it proceeds with system updates in the middle of a commercial presentation without a single question and in spite of the update timeframe settings. This and also a fresh nightly updates that leaves a mess in all open documents.
I wonder the way it self-awakes from sleep mode every now and then, including when the lid is shut and it’s in a bag, pushing away the limits of overheating.
I love the way it handles memory and swap. At you’re already in uncharted territory.

And above all, I adore the facts that I’m still mad at those points since Windows 95. I call it “Snake OS” : there’s a regular change of skin but it’s the same reptile underneath, only bigger and more dangerous.


----------



## sostenuto

lastmessiah said:


> Never had a single problem with Windows 10, and I always update as soon as available and even run the Insider builds. Sometimes I wonder just what it is people do to their computers when I see them moaning about Windows updates and such.


Insider here as well, and, as posted before, concerned highly about _*exiting*_ with next major release ! (Oct ?) Box always checked 'On' _ '_Stop getting preview builds when the next version of Windows releases_'. 
I trust this means _ fully /automatically _ without resorting to Clean Install. So far this has not occurred for very long time. 🤞🏻 🙏🏻


----------



## sostenuto

Loïc D said:


> Aaaah Windows....
> 
> I have a PC for my daytime job with a steady install (I don’t install new apps and restrict myself to very few apps actually).
> 
> I admire the way it’s lagging for some minutes and shuts all Explorer windows at once and taskbar and restarts them.
> I praise the way it gets slow over time.
> I worship the way it proceeds with system updates in the middle of a commercial presentation without a single question and in spite of the update timeframe settings. This and also a fresh nightly updates that leaves a mess in all open documents.
> I wonder the way it self-awakes from sleep mode every now and then, including when the lid is shut and it’s in a bag, pushing away the limits of overheating.
> I love the way it handles memory and swap. At you’re already in uncharted territory.
> 
> And above all, I adore the facts that I’m still mad at those points since Windows 95. I call it “Snake OS” : there’s a regular change of skin but it’s the same reptile underneath, only bigger and more dangerous.


Ha ! Back to Win 95 as well, and still do small amount in DOS ...  
No Laptops, but multiple Desktops. 
Not at all pleased with your 'bullet' points either, and frustrated that MS chooses _ _afaik_ _ not to acknowledge the more blatant global user complaints, and at least explain rationale /key factors involved. Perhaps they do, with close user groups, but not mentioned here. 
Strong hopes for Oct !


----------



## lastmessiah

sostenuto said:


> Insider here as well, and, as posted before, concerned highly about _*exiting*_ with next major release ! (Oct ?) Box always checked 'On' _ '_Stop getting preview builds when the next version of Windows releases_'.
> I trust this means _ fully /automatically _ without resorting to Clean Install. So far this has not occurred for very long time. 🤞🏻 🙏🏻


You should be alright.

I like the direction Microsoft has taken its software lately. They are a different company than they were in the Vista and 7 days. They have embraced Linux and open source - WSL is awesome. There's even some speculation that Windows will become a Linux distribution. Fine by me. 

One thing they could really improve on is the default audio drivers. WASAPI is a step in the right direction, but it would be nice if they could reach Core Audio-like functionality.


----------



## sostenuto

lastmessiah said:


> You should be alright.
> 
> I like the direction Microsoft has taken its software lately. They are a different company than they were in the Vista and 7 days. They have embraced Linux and open source - WSL is awesome. There's even some speculation that Windows will become a Linux distribution. Fine by me.
> 
> One thing they could really improve on is the default audio drivers. WASAPI is a step in the right direction, but it would be nice if they could reach Core Audio-like functionality.


Agree ! Not an issue until recent DAW#2 move to from Audio I/F to dedicated Headphone and Mic Preamp /Amp hardware. ASIO4All v2.14 seems only option, so far. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Hadrondrift

lastmessiah said:


> Never had a single problem with Windows 10,


A sample size of 1 is small compared to a sample size of over one billion estimated Win10 users and is therefore unsuitable as a statistical basis for statements about the stability of Windows 10. 

The Bluetooth functionality of my wife's old Acer laptop disappeared completely after a Windows 10 update because the driver was blocked. Microsoft said to contact the manufacturer for an updated driver. The manufacturer replied that it would no longer support the old laptop device model.That was my worst update experience. I was able to solve the problem, took some time, but I am not an IT layman either.


lastmessiah said:


> ome speculation that Windows will become a Linux distribution. Fine by me.


Agree, that would be very fine for me as well. Maybe not as fine for developers, though.


----------



## trumpoz

easyrider said:


> I would see this as unprofessional. Sounds to be he doesn’t want any comeback and hassle should a noob perform an update.


See it in whatever way you like. This guy's DAWs are all over the place in Oz, production, recording, mastering studios. He also built the DAWBench suite - people pay the extra for machines that work with 0 hassle, and there is a premium on that. Do you really think a noob would see the value in the extra $$?


----------



## trumpoz

Phaedraz said:


> Any thought about the security of your system? If your computer is not connected to internet then I understand if you turn them off. Otherwise you are basically always exposed to some security issue.


Honestly no I'm not. I have backups running regularly - if some idiot wants to hack some nobody then good luck to them. In reality updates are retrospective fixes - every new update is behind the flaws in the system.

I dont do anything on that PC that requires financial. My banking/paylpal logins are different to any other passwords.


----------



## Pictus

Not only https://www.sordum.org/downloads/?st-windows-update-blocker (I keep Windows update disabled), but before doing ANY update
I create a system image with Macrium Reflect(USB boot drive), if
anything goes wrong, easy easy to restore...
Before doing the update, it is better to check the drive file consistency
and Windows integrity.





BTW, to backup your stuff I recommend FreeFileSync, they have
good video tutorials.


----------



## sostenuto

Have Macrium Free, but not sure if it would suffice for Update Backups. 
Have had Acronis True Image for long time, and very inexpensive Update to 2021 recently. 
Will be more diligent as October Update approaches !


----------



## Pictus

sostenuto said:


> Have Macrium Free, but not sure if it would suffice for Update Backups.
> Have had Acronis True Image for long time, and very inexpensive Update to 2021 recently.
> Will be more diligent as October Update approaches !


But FreeFileSync does well for your stuff and Macrium for the bootable drive.
100% good solution!


----------



## sostenuto

Pictus said:


> But FreeFileSync does well for your stuff and Macrium for the bootable drive.
> 100% good solution!


THX ! Just downloaded latest of both ! This will be critical Update, as repurposing DAW#2 and exiting Insider Preview. Will need to keep valid backups routinely.


----------



## dzilizzi

Windows System Image does the same thing. I have used Macrium free if I am going to reload it right away, but I have had issues in the past where the backup is not recognized by the next version. Maybe not with Macrium but with other paid back up products. I can load the Windows system image as a virtual HD and access everything on it. I've actually recovered downloaded files and programs that were accidentally deleted (thought I had a copy somewhere.) I have been very happy with System Image.


----------



## sostenuto

dzilizzi said:


> Windows System Image does the same thing. I have used Macrium free if I am going to reload it right away, but I have had issues in the past where the backup is not recognized by the next version. Maybe not with Macrium but with other paid back up products. I can load the Windows system image as a virtual HD and access everything on it. I've actually recovered downloaded files and programs that were accidentally deleted (thought I had a copy somewhere.) I have been very happy with System Image.


Used long ago, and revisiting now. WSI backup underway. Good to know you have had success !
When Oct Win10 Pro Update gets close, will likely also do latest Macrium Free, as well as Acronis 2021. 
Trusting ability to exit Insider Preview 'comfortably' then, and move forward. 🙏🏻🤷‍♂️🤞🏻😇 THX !


----------



## Kony

Those backups won't help if the windows update breaks your USB controllers - which the latest 21H1 did. I'm currently unable to use 2 USB ports as the USB controller has the error message "configuration descriptor request failed". Tried to update the driver but get the message that the driver is already up-to-date.


----------



## Pictus

Kony said:


> Those backups won't help if the windows update breaks your USB controllers - which the latest 21H1 did. I'm currently unable to use 2 USB ports as the USB controller has the error message "configuration descriptor request failed". Tried to update the driver but get the message that the driver is already up-to-date.


Look at the video I posted and create a media recovery tool, it is a bootable USB pendrive.
It does not depend on the operational system on the drive because it has its own.


----------



## Wedge

Kony said:


> Those backups won't help if the windows update breaks your USB controllers - which the latest 21H1 did. I'm currently unable to use 2 USB ports as the USB controller has the error message "configuration descriptor request failed". Tried to update the driver but get the message that the driver is already up-to-date.


I'm going a off thread here. Sorry.

You may have tried all these things, I have no way of knowing. But I obsessively hate it when things don't work how they're suppose to, so I figured I'd try to help. With that said...

Since updating doesn't work, you can try to uninstall/ reinstall. Go to control panel > device manager > Universal Serial Bus Controllers > select the host controllers and hit the delete key (I'm assuming you have a couple with yellow triangles and they're called 'Unknown USB Device' those would be the ones you want to remove. Then reboot ( you might not have a working mouse to reboot. just hit alt+f4 which will close windows, just keep closing them until the shutdown windows dialogue pops up) if that's not an option hold the power button in for five seconds to fully shut off. If that doesn't work I would try the same thing only remove 'USB Root Hub' and reboot again. If that still doesn't work I'd recommend going to the manufacturers website and downloading the USB drivers, they might be in the motherboard drivers or in with the Intel/ AMD stuff (if it's custom machine look for drivers on the motherboards manufacturers website.) And try to install those, if you get a warning that it is older, who cares... go for it.

These things might help, they might not (It's been a couple decades since I worked tech support ;p) Good luck.


----------



## Kony

Pictus said:


> Look at the video I posted and create a media recovery tool, it is a bootable USB pendrive.
> It does not depend on the operational system on the drive because it has its own.


Will that work if the controller has already been corrupted?



Judd said:


> you can try to uninstall/ reinstall


I'd heard that this may not work unless all controllers are deleted - which is a bit risky if they fail to reinstall.


----------



## Pictus

Kony said:


> Will that work if the controller has already been corrupted?
> 
> 
> I'd heard that this may not work unless all controllers are deleted - which is a bit risky if they fail to reinstall.


The Windows driver is borked, not the hardware.
The Windows update can break things, but it is at software level, not hardware.


----------



## Kony

Pictus said:


> The Windows driver is borked, not the hardware.
> The Windows update can break things, but it is at software level, not hardware.


Thanks! Good to know the backup will fix broken drivers.


----------



## Wedge

Kony said:


> Thanks! Fixing it is the problem though.


Pictus is spot on, when Windows update screws something up it's software not hardware. But if you're worried about the USB drivers not reinstalling, which they should but nothing is a 100 percent. Download the drivers from the manufacturer and install those, if you get a warning about having a newer drivers ignore it and continue.

These links cover the issue that you're having hopefully they can help:









Fix Device Descriptor Request Failed (Unkown USB Device)


The device which malfunctioned will be labeled as "Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed)" with a yellow triangle which will confirm that




techcult.com












Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed) [Solved] - Driver Easy


If your USB device cannot be recognized in Windows 10 due to error Device Descriptor Request Failed, use methods here and the problem should resolve.



www.drivereasy.com


----------



## SteveC

I like Windows 10. I like updates. Never had any problems. I even like my brand new chip in my left arm!


----------



## Kony

Judd said:


> Pictus is spot on, when Windows update screws something up it's software not hardware. But if you're worried about the USB drivers not reinstalling, which they should but nothing is a 100 percent. Download the drivers from the manufacturer and install those, if you get a warning about having a newer drivers ignore it and continue.
> 
> These links cover the issue that you're having hopefully they can help:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fix Device Descriptor Request Failed (Unkown USB Device)
> 
> 
> The device which malfunctioned will be labeled as "Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed)" with a yellow triangle which will confirm that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> techcult.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unknown USB Device (Device Descriptor Request Failed) [Solved] - Driver Easy
> 
> 
> If your USB device cannot be recognized in Windows 10 due to error Device Descriptor Request Failed, use methods here and the problem should resolve.
> 
> 
> 
> www.drivereasy.com


Thank you - I appreciate the tips and had seen those suggestions, mostly to do with power options for laptops but I might try uninstalling the affected driver only. I'm wary of messing with other settings too much though as everything else works fine. I was leaning towards getting a powered USB hub anyway - more for convenient access (and more ports).


----------



## dzilizzi

This is where I like the fact that all my computers have at least 2 internal drives, including the laptops. I've had to move the drive with the backup to an internal drive to restore previously.


----------



## Monkberry

Just fell victim to the latest Windows update. Yesterday and today trying to recover my iLok 2 which is on a USB hub but no go. Tried it on a 2nd computer with Windows 7 and same problem. Finally had to do an RMA with Pace. $92 later, I'll have my licenses back up and running when the whole process of shipping the broken one back and they send the replacement. Price does include a new iLok 3 which I ordered a second one after this happened so I'll have a spare if and when this happens again. I've had a long run so I can't complain. I was recently thinking I should have zero downtime because my luck was bound to run out but never followed through.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Monkberry said:


> Just fell victim to the latest Windows update. Yesterday and today trying to recover my iLok 2 which is on a USB hub but no go. Tried it on a 2nd computer with Windows 7 and same problem. Finally had to do an RMA with Pace. $92 later, I'll have my licenses back up and running when the whole process of shipping the broken one back and they send the replacement. Price does include a new iLok 3 which I ordered a second one after this happened so I'll have a spare if and when this happens again. I've had a long run so I can't complain. I was recently thinking I should have zero downtime because my luck was bound to run out but never followed through.


You can 99%+ say for certain it was the update that caused the hardware failure?

Correlation is not causation, so there’d have to be proof that a Windows update broke your USB key from ilok.


----------



## sostenuto

Yeah .... surely a fair question. iLok2 dongle here ... even moves between Desktop DAW(s) 1 & 2. never a problem, and frequent Updates being on Insider Preview.


----------



## Monkberry

vitocorleone123 said:


> You can 100% say for certain it was the update that caused the hardware failure?
> 
> Correlation is not causation, so there’d have to be proof that a Windows update broke your USB key from ilok.


No, of course not 100% but I take delight in blaming Windows. I have had this particular iLok for a few years and I've been through every Windows 10 update thus far so who knows. It lights up but goes dim when it connects with Windows. Not the end of the world for me. I'm not wasting energy on hating Windows or iLok. I have had great success thus far so it's just a small bump in the road.


----------



## margrave

Why even bother accepting Windows updates? Mine are turned off and will remain turned off.

I run 1809. It works well. So why risk changes that might break things?

Updates offer nothing at all. They have no value.


----------



## Jeremy Morgan

margrave said:


> Why even bother accepting Windows updates? Mine are turned off and will remain turned off.
> 
> I run 1809. It works well. So why risk changes that might break things?
> 
> Updates offer nothing at all. They have no value.


Spent two days resolving an update issue...but still there is a value for updating considering the damage done was on a security update. If your computer is insecure it can just as easily be broken as if an update would do it.


----------



## tomosane

I'm sorry but is there any confirmation (not "rumors") that 21H1 is actually going to be an update that could seriously mess with drivers/audio/performance? I only paid attention to this now and after a cursory Google search couldn't find anything.

With the Professional version of Win 10 (which you should 100% be using if you're on Windows) there's an option to postpone all feature updates by 6 months by default, at which point you can basically expect most serious bugs to be ironed out. I haven't had any problems this way personally... It's no secret that Microsoft is basically using Win 10 Home users as free beta testers, like it or not


----------



## Jeremy Morgan

tomosane said:


> I'm sorry but is there any confirmation (not "rumors") that 21H1 is actually going to be an update that could seriously mess with drivers/audio/performance? I only paid attention to this now and after a cursory Google search couldn't find anything.
> 
> With the Professional version of Win 10 (which you should 100% be using if you're on Windows) there's an option to postpone all feature updates by 6 months by default, at which point you can basically expect most serious bugs to be ironed out. I haven't had any problems this way personally... It's no secret that Microsoft is basically using Win 10 Home users as free beta testers, like it or not


Not sure about the future but this is the update I was speaking off which is a large security problem










Microsoft Confirms Six Windows 10 ‘Zero Day’ Threats, Pushes Fix


Microsoft has issued a Windows 10 update warning as massive security flaws have been found which affect millions of users...




www.forbes.com


----------



## vitocorleone123

Jeremy Morgan said:


> Not sure about the future but this is the update I was speaking off which is a large security problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Microsoft Confirms Six Windows 10 ‘Zero Day’ Threats, Pushes Fix
> 
> 
> Microsoft has issued a Windows 10 update warning as massive security flaws have been found which affect millions of users...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


FWIW I see the same kind of headline from Forbes almost every day for iPhones. They seem to be a very panicked bunch. Doesn't mean there's no issue, but.......


----------



## lastmessiah

Forbes is just a giant clickbait/bot farm now. One of the worst sites on the web.


----------



## tomosane

Jeremy Morgan said:


> Not sure about the future but this is the update I was speaking off which is a large security problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Microsoft Confirms Six Windows 10 ‘Zero Day’ Threats, Pushes Fix
> 
> 
> Microsoft has issued a Windows 10 update warning as massive security flaws have been found which affect millions of users...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com



Sure, but the update that addressed those security problems was a security update, not a feature update. You can postpone feature updates by default while allowing security updates to be installed automatically, which is what I've been doing.

And of course it's always possible (more like, almost certain) that even security updates will break some things for some people because every modern OS is such a huge and convoluted complex of software. But that doesn't mean the average user is likely to experience any problems with them, and even less so if you're better than the average user at making sure you've only installed software from WHQL-certified vendors etc...


----------



## vitocorleone123

tomosane said:


> I'm sorry but is there any confirmation (not "rumors") that 21H1 is actually going to be an update that could seriously mess with drivers/audio/performance? I only paid attention to this now and after a cursory Google search couldn't find anything.
> 
> With the Professional version of Win 10 (which you should 100% be using if you're on Windows) there's an option to postpone all feature updates by 6 months by default, at which point you can basically expect most serious bugs to be ironed out. I haven't had any problems this way personally... It's no secret that Microsoft is basically using Win 10 Home users as free beta testers, like it or not


Yes. Anyone working on music, for example, should be running Pro, not Home.

To edit, search the Web for instructions on delaying windows updates using group policy editor. I don't remember how to do it, specifically, other than finding the right values to change.


----------



## dzilizzi

Jeremy Morgan said:


> Spent two days resolving an update issue...but still there is a value for updating considering the damage done was on a security update. If your computer is insecure it can just as easily be broken as if an update would do it.


That's not good. I usually do the security updates if I get a choice, just because they keep me safe.


----------



## Jeremy Morgan

lastmessiah said:


> Forbes is just a giant clickbait/bot farm now. One of the worst sites on the web.


Ok...

Here is the US government referring to the Same issues





__





Microsoft Releases June 2021 Security Updates | CISA


Microsoft has released updates to address multiple vulnerabilities in Microsoft software. A remote attacker can exploit some of these vulnerabilities to take control of an affected system. CISA encourages users and administrators to review Microsoft’s June 2021 Security Update Summary and...




us-cert.cisa.gov





here is referring to the same issues from the government of Canada 









Canadian Centre for Cyber Security


The Cyber Centre is the single unified source of expert advice, guidance, services, and support on cyber security for Canada and Canadians.




cyber.gc.ca





Security patches are usually just that.


----------



## Bollen

I have never updated my work PC. I do a yearly scan using an enterprise solution and has never found anything. I work all the time so can't afford a broken system. Anyway, I tried all the solutions for disabling updates and Windows would enabled them at a later date. *Eventually what worked to this day is Telling Windows you're on a Metered Connection*. Once a week it'll bug you saying Windows can't download updates, but you can just click on Clear Notifications.


----------



## Artemi

I'm not gonna lie, all this win update story thing is just drives me insane
I've tried all the methods I could to stop this bricking updates but it still updates whenever it pleases, it update the drivers to the latest version which are working so much worse than the ones I've installed.
And I can't even go back with them.

I see that some of you haven't found any problems with the updates, that's good. Maybe your system is more stable.

I think Win7 was a system where it was you actually controlling your PC. Not anymore.

Maybe a pirated version of Win10 will be more reliable?


----------



## lastmessiah

Windows 11 is confirmed.


----------



## sostenuto

lastmessiah said:


> Windows 11 is confirmed.


Maybe October release ?


----------



## vitocorleone123

lastmessiah said:


> Windows 11 is confirmed.


"Dive! Dive!"


----------



## lastmessiah

sostenuto said:


> Maybe October release ?


Yeah October is the target date.


----------



## gsilbers

lastmessiah said:


> Windows 11 is confirmed.



that looks awfully familiar 
Maybe call it Windows Jaguar


----------



## gsilbers

Hope they can get their shiat together. Apple has been getting a little too "planned obsolescence-y" for me. And a good competitor will help it not be so greedy imo. 

windows has that problem that its a good system for tweak heads who just want to change every little single aspect of it for very customizable stuff. so the system settings, submenus are a real mess. 
And its always the users fault. :/

plus the audio driver non compliant, random driver things is crazy to me. Im sure windows user here are all set and done with that but I recently tried windows again and its the audio drivers, the video drivers.. just nothing worked as it should. I needed another computer to figure out the most simple stuff. 
They do have to support so many manufacturers and at times it feels like a mud castle with parts falling off and trying to patch things together etc. 

I thought the windows 10x would have been a nice thing. A simple windows version that just works and using their own hardware and then a more pro version for everything else. 
but seems its all one thing again. lets see how it goes. they seems to have a lot of random misses through the years.


----------



## Alchemedia

Pictus said:


> Not only https://www.sordum.org/downloads/?st-windows-update-blocker (I keep Windows update disabled), but before doing ANY update
> I create a system image with Macrium Reflect(USB boot drive), if
> anything goes wrong, easy easy to restore...
> Before doing the update, it is better to check the drive file consistency
> and Windows integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, to backup your stuff I recommend FreeFileSync, they have
> good video tutorials.



Macrium Reflect is excellent. I've been using it since it was first released.


----------



## Alchemedia

gsilbers said:


> that looks awfully familiar
> Maybe call it Windows Jaguar



They should have hired "The Unfinished" to do the startup sound.


----------



## Alchemedia

margrave said:


> Why even bother accepting Windows updates? Mine are turned off and will remain turned off.
> 
> I run 1809. It works well. So why risk changes that might break things?
> 
> Updates offer nothing at all. They have no value.


Seriously?


----------



## Polkasound

Artemi said:


> I think Win7 was a system where it was you actually controlling your PC. Not anymore.
> 
> Maybe a pirated version of Win10 will be more reliable?


It is possible to make Windows 10 operate a lot like 7. It takes some third party software, knowledge, and patience, but it can be done. My studio PC runs Windows 7 Pro, my home PC runs Windows 10 Pro, and both PCs are practically identical.



margrave said:


> Updates offer nothing at all. They have no value.


A couple years ago I played for a faculty Oktoberfest at a healthcare facility, but noticed that after a few weeks, they still hadn't sent me a check. Shortly after I played there, a careless employee at the facility clicked on a link in an email and their entire facility was shut down by ransomware attack. I have no idea if a Windows security update could prevent something like that, but if it could, then I'd say updates are pretty valuable.


----------



## sean8877

Alchemedia said:


> Macrium Reflect is excellent. I've been using it since it was first released.


Do you need the paid version or does the free version give you the full disk image that can be restored? I'm looking at their page but can't really tell what the difference is between paid and free. Thanks.


----------



## vitocorleone123

gsilbers said:


> Hope they can get their shiat together. Apple has been getting a little too "planned obsolescence-y" for me. And a good competitor will help it not be so greedy imo.
> 
> windows has that problem that its a good system for tweak heads who just want to change every little single aspect of it for very customizable stuff. so the system settings, submenus are a real mess.
> And its always the users fault. :/
> 
> plus the audio driver non compliant, random driver things is crazy to me. Im sure windows user here are all set and done with that but I recently tried windows again and its the audio drivers, the video drivers.. just nothing worked as it should. I needed another computer to figure out the most simple stuff.
> They do have to support so many manufacturers and at times it feels like a mud castle with parts falling off and trying to patch things together etc.
> 
> I thought the windows 10x would have been a nice thing. A simple windows version that just works and using their own hardware and then a more pro version for everything else.
> but seems its all one thing again. lets see how it goes. they seems to have a lot of random misses through the years.


I know how to tweak if something gives wrong (doesn't take a "Genius" appointment). But… a fresh install of Windows. Video drivers. Audio drivers. Done. Worked without a single issue.

Since you aren’t beholden to whatever the lords of fruit think is best for their walled garden, yes, with great freedom comes great responsibility. If you have old and/or bad hardware, with bad old drivers, and you upgrade Windows or get it from an OEM rather than starting completely fresh, yeah, there’s greater risk of something going sideways.


----------



## Hadrondrift

sean8877 said:


> what the difference is between paid and free. [Macrium Reflect]


The most important difference: The free version supports only full and differential backups, no incremental backups and no files/folder backup.

If it is only about creating a full image every now and then, the free version is sufficient. Excellent and reliable piece of software. I used Acronis many years ago, they went really bad, better to familiarize with Macrium Reflect, it is more or less the standard backup software nowadays.


----------



## sean8877

Hadrondrift said:


> The most important difference: The free version supports only full and differential backups, no incremental backups and no files/folder backup.
> 
> If it is only about creating a full image every now and then, the free version is sufficient. Excellent and reliable piece of software. I used Acronis many years ago, they went really bad, better to familiarize with Macrium Reflect, it is more or less the standard backup software nowadays.


Free version sounds fine as long as it doesn't take forever to create a full disk image. Thanks.


----------



## vitocorleone123

sean8877 said:


> Free version sounds fine as long as it doesn't take forever to create a full disk image. Thanks.


Full disk images take some time, especially if you're backing up over a network. Because you also want it to verify the image every time. Also depends on the amount of data, of course!

Just pay for the home/full version of Macrium and get the incremental backup capability. Then it only takes minutes for those. I will say that their UX is decidedly less user-friendly than Acronis. But it's ok enough, I think, because the most important thing is that the backups can be restored reliably. That's where Acronis let me down a few years back before switching to Macrium. Not just once (coulda been a fluke), but twice. The only thing to make sure of with Macrium is to have a good backup disk/usb that's up to date, just in case the built-in boot method fails.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

​


----------



## Technostica

This is great news because they will stop trying to force updates onto W10 after W11 is released. 
Unless they try and force W11 as an update!  
So as W10 will get security updates until 2025, that leaves 4 years of relative peace.


----------



## mscp

What?! So when they said they'd never release another Windows...wow.
I hope they come up with a better overall UI experience.


----------



## EvilDragon

So much about "Windows 10 is the last version of Windows" 



Technostica said:


> This is great news because they will stop trying to force updates onto W10 after W11 is released.



Wrong. Updates will keep rolling until 2025.


----------



## Technostica

Technostica said:


> So as W10 will get security updates until 2025, that leaves 4 years of relative peace.





EvilDragon said:


> Wrong. Updates will keep rolling until 2025.


Are you suggesting they are going to add more than security updates and bug fixes?


----------



## EvilDragon

I wouldn't rule out feature updates, yeah. But let's see.


----------



## Technostica

EvilDragon said:


> I wouldn't rule out feature updates, yeah. But let's see.


Yeah, it's seemingly a guessing game at the moment. 
It would seem odd though for them to add new features to a version that has been superceded!
Unless version 11 drops compatibility with older hardware.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Technostica said:


> Unless version 11 drops compatibility with older hardware.


We're talking about Microsoft, not Apple. I have a hard time imagining that, unless they've come up with something as significant as moving from 32bit to 64bit computing.


----------



## Technostica

There is a shift happening at the hardware level with Intel releasing a new platform in Q4. 
That supports the equivalent of ARM's big.LITTLE which means extra work for the Windows scheduler. 
It's a major shift but by itself not enough for a new numbered edition of Windows. 
The numbering change is more likely driven by marketing.


----------



## Tim_Wells

About to do a new PC build. Hoping there's a free upgrade path, like they did with W7. May wait a little, until I hear the plan.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Well, my tried and true recommendation: don't update to a new version of Windows until AT LEAST the first major "service pack" or equivalent update. And, of course, as has been mentioned, always make a full backup first. Also recommended: a fresh install, not an upgrade.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Polkasound said:


> Widows updates can be permanently disabled in Group Policy Editor, but my understanding is that GPE is not available on Home version..


Widows Update, that's about the size of it...


----------



## Artemi

Polkasound said:


> A couple years ago I played for a faculty Oktoberfest at a healthcare facility, but noticed that after a few weeks, they still hadn't sent me a check. Shortly after I played there, a careless employee at the facility clicked on a link in an email and their entire facility was shut down by ransomware attack. I have no idea if a Windows security update could prevent something like that, but if it could, then I'd say updates are pretty valuable.


I get your point, but I think that if someone wants to find a breach in security they'll find it and no updates can stop that.


----------



## easyrider

Artemi said:


> I get your point, but I think that if someone wants to find a breach in security they'll find it and no updates can stop that.


You make it a lot easier by not updating windows….


----------



## MA-Simon

TigerTheFrog said:


> ​



This looks absolutely horrible. Like a bubbly social gaming app. I strongly prefer Win10. Clean and organised for work.


----------



## SteveC

Oh no, future is coming! I think Chuck Norris wouldn't do a backup.


----------



## easyrider

MA-Simon said:


> This looks absolutely horrible. Like a bubbly social gaming app. I strongly prefer Win10. Clean and organised for work.


Within seconds you can have it looking like windows 10


----------



## marius_dm

Not sure why everyone is so against updates, I never had an update break anything and I’ve been using Windows for 25 years….


----------



## easyrider

marius_dm said:


> Not sure why everyone is so against updates, I never had an update break anything and I’ve been using Windows for 25 years….


Snap 👍


----------



## Wedge

Polkasound said:


> People have complained that this is not a permanent solution as the service will eventually re-enable itself. Extra steps may be needed. From TheWindowsClub.com: _"If Windows Update keeps starting & turning itself back On after turning it Off in Windows 10, then apart from turning off Automatic Windows Update Service (wuauserv), setting a Guest Log on, you need to disable Windows Update Medic Service as well."_
> 
> Widows updates can be permanently disabled in Group Policy Editor, but my understanding is that GPE is not available on Home versions.
> 
> I'm not a PC wizard so please correct me if I am wrong on any of this.


You are correct but there are ways to activate/ add GPE on Windows 10 Home. It's been a few years since I added it to my wife's computer, but I'm sure if you searched around you'd find a script to do it.


----------



## Wedge

Artemi said:


> I'm not gonna lie, all this win update story thing is just drives me insane
> I've tried all the methods I could to stop this bricking updates but it still updates whenever it pleases, it update the drivers to the latest version which are working so much worse than the ones I've installed.
> And I can't even go back with them.
> 
> I see that some of you haven't found any problems with the updates, that's good. Maybe your system is more stable.
> 
> I think Win7 was a system where it was you actually controlling your PC. Not anymore.
> 
> Maybe a pirated version of Win10 will be more reliable?


LTSC is a lot more reliable, I've been really impressed. 

If you have group policy editor --- press win-key and type 'gpe' and if you have 'group policy editor' hit enter. In Group Policy Editor --- Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update > double click 'Configure Automatic Updates'. in the upper left click on disable, then click ok. And resart your computer. 

With Enterprise and LTSC this will disable Automatic updates but Manual updates work just fine. I don't remember if it works with pro since I haven't ran pro in many years. But it's takes about one minute so it's worth trying.


----------



## Artemi

Judd said:


> LTSC is a lot more reliable, I've been really impressed.
> 
> If you have group policy editor --- press win-key and type 'gpe' and if you have 'group policy editor' hit enter. In Group Policy Editor --- Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update > double click 'Configure Automatic Updates'. in the upper left click on disable, then click ok. And resart your computer.
> 
> With Enterprise and LTSC this will disable Automatic updates but Manual updates work just fine. I don't remember if it works with pro since I haven't ran pro in many years. But it's takes about one minute so it's worth trying.


hello!

I've got a home edition, but there is a workaround to turn Group Policy editor on
I tweaked the updates settings, so finger crossed I hope the maschine will behave now.

thanks for your suggestions!


----------



## Technostica

marius_dm said:


> Not sure why everyone is so against updates, I never had an update break anything and I’ve been using Windows for 25 years….


Which is statistically irrelevant and ignores all the people that have had issues.


----------



## quickbrownf0x

I did a full Holkenborg and sold all my gear after @easyrider told me I can't dig a moat or update my Windows without having a negative impact on the environment. I'm typing this on an old Nokia Potato 3210, btw. Good news is - no more wonky Windows updates.


----------



## Wedge

marius_dm said:


> Not sure why everyone is so against updates, I never had an update break anything and I’ve been using Windows for 25 years….


Because a lot of us have had the opposite experience. PC's have so many variable components. So what works great for you, might be a nightmare for me. 25 years, would mean you remember Windows ME? I worked tech support when that disasterous terd came out. It was on my computer for less than three days before I removed it (Because it crashed randomly but consistently.) Our call volume quadrupled, it was a shit show. Win10 has been better than that, for sure. I run LTSC on my workstations and Enterprise on my laptops. I've enjoyed BSODs after win10 update 1703 on a couple of our 1st Gen Ryzen machines. That's what prompted the move to LTSC. 

So maybe I wouldn't have such a lack of faith in updates if Micosoft handled them like they used to... Security and feature updates were separated, they had explanations of what every update did, you could skip one update and install the next (without it installing the skipped update for you.) It made it way easier for a normal users to remove a buggy update without just reinstalling it for them anyway. And because of this, less people had updates disabled. Less people had automatic updates turned on too, so less people were getting updates regularly too (you might have been one of them. Since 25 years is a long time to go without a bad windows update ;p)

Or maybe, just maybe, I'd have more confidence in Windows updates if Microsoft didn't fire the Windows Beta Testers in 2015.








Microsoft to business: Don't worry about Windows 10, consumers will test it


Microsoft on Friday said consumers would become coal mine canaries who turn up bugs and problems in each Windows 10 update months before businesses have to commit to the fixes.




www.computerworld.com


----------



## Tralen

Polkasound said:


> My 84-year-old mother might disagree, LOL. And I don't mean that to come across as condescending, but I happen to literally know soooo many elderly and otherwise technically-challenged PC users. Some are musicians making music, but others, like my mom, are just on it for Facebook and email. To people like them, PCs are complicated, mysterious boxes of technology that allow them to see photos, hear music, and post messages.
> 
> People like the ones above rely entirely on others to keep their computers and software programs working, but what about novice users who know a little bit? And intermediate users who know a little more? A lot of VI-Control members are technically inclined, but I'm sure there are also quite a few members and lurkers out there who are novices and intermediate users.
> 
> My long-winded point is that since there are PC users out there who don't really understand Windows or their PCs, it might behoove us more experienced PC users to put ourselves in their shoes for a moment before we smugly declare how something is so simple that it's not even an issue.


Those kind of users are exactly the users I setup a Linux system, usually Mint. If they are just using for e-mails, browsing, etc, Linux is perfect and the installation will probably overlast the machines. I maintain about 20 computers running for elderly/non-technical people like that, two built around 2012. They don't give me any trouble at all, no virus, etc.

For 3D graphics, I would also just install Linux. That was my previous job, and a good portion of 3D softwares are Linux native, and run faster and more reliable on Linux, specially for rendering. I'm a hardcore Houdini user, but also worked with Maya for a decade on Linux.

Now, speaking about Audio, the situation is *very different*. The number of plugins and DAWs that are compatible is very small, and even running Wine, things like authentication and dongles will prevent you from achieving the same reliability and ease of use of running Windows/Mac. For this reason, I keep a Windows partition, but I only connect to the internet for authentication purposes. After the day is over, I switch back to Linux and the Windows partition is imaged to a separate drive. That shows how much I trust it.


----------



## Tim_Wells

No doubt life long Mac users read threads like this and the PC build threads and are horrified. But honestly, I've been on Windows forever and had very little issue with updates or anything else. I'm still running a DAW I built in 2012 and it works great. I never blocked or had to roll back an update.

There are always horror stories with any product, even very good ones. Just read reviews. Any product can experience issues. But it's important to determine when it's the exception or the rule. 

I'm not discounting anyone's bad experience. Bad things happen to good people .


----------



## Hadrondrift

By the way, an infamous Windows update in music production was the one after which Native Instruments Reaktor Kontrol, Maschine Studio and all Komplete Kontrol S-Series MK1 controllers were suddenly no longer recognized by Win10 (NI-Forum).
Took Microsoft about a month to fix that, which is quite fast (for them).

When people say they have never had a problem with updates, they should acknowledge that they would have had one if they had owned one of these devices. It is really a fairy tale to believe that only less experienced users can run into problems with these frequent updates, which are increasingly suffering from a lack of quality assurance on the part of Microsoft. I have been an IT expert for _many_ years and have encountered many problems where the user was completely blameless (but in the vast majority of cases he is, I won't deny that ).


----------



## digitallysane

Tralen said:


> I'm a hardcore Houdini user, but also worked with Maya for a decade on Linux.


Hardcore Houdini user as well, and I prefer using it on Windows except when I'm in a big studio where someone else is bothering doing my Linux box admin.



Tim_Wells said:


> No doubt life long Mac users read threads like this and the PC build threads and are horrified. But honestly, I've been on Windows forever and had very little issue with updates or anything else.


Well, as a Windows user (mostly nowadays) I'm also horrified by reading how each and every Mac OS update breaks pretty much everything and makes another batch of their software obsolete.

Each platform with its problems.

I've been using Windows, Linux and Mac OS professionally for a long time and I definitely prefer Windows but, at the same time, have a hard time understanding all the religious sentiments surrounding OSes.


----------



## marius_dm

digitallysane said:


> Well, as a Windows user (mostly nowadays) I'm also horrified by reading how each and every Mac OS update breaks pretty much everything and makes another batch of their software obsolete.


This! I’m a Mac user as well and have had quite a few Mac OS upgrades that broke something in the past 5-6 years. I guess it goes back to backward compatibility, which is important for MS but not that important for Apple (my opinion of course)


----------



## marius_dm

Technostica said:


> Which is statistically irrelevant and ignores all the people that have had issues.


Not sure that I ignored anything, all I wrote is that *I* never had issues. Again, I’ve been using windows since before Win95 and it had plenty of problems along the way, updates weren’t typically the issue though


----------



## Michael Antrum

There have been lots of Windows updates that caused chaos. The one that stands out was an update that added a lot of network security and overnight loads of small networks stopped working.….


----------



## vitocorleone123

marius_dm said:


> This! I’m a Mac user as well and have had quite a few Mac OS upgrades that broke something in the past 5-6 years. I guess it goes back to backward compatibility, which is important for MS but not that important for Apple (my opinion of course)


Been using PCs since DOS+Win3.1. Win95 was pretty good by the end. Win98SE was good. Win7x64 was great. Win10 is great. The rest (consumer)? Problematic. I've had more trouble with my Macs since the timeframe Win10 came out than with Windows - crashing, freezing, bad hardware, incompatilities, planned obsolescence, etc. Before then, it was definitely Windows having the most issues by a massive amount. 

PCs are PCs. Control your updates schedule (you should have Pro not Home). Get an external hard drive or a NAS (I use a cheap one), Macrium Reflect paid, and set it for daily backups (monthly full, weekly differential, daily incremental). Do a manual one before major updates. I also use ArcBackup for hourly document (e.g., music save files) backup to Google Drive.

I have zero stress about my data, updates, meltdowns, etc.


----------



## Tralen

digitallysane said:


> I've been using Windows, Linux and Mac OS professionally for a long time and I definitely prefer Windows but, at the same time, have a hard time understanding all the religious sentiments surrounding OSes.


Agreed. Use the OS that you feel will give you the least trouble for the task. That involves not only the reliability of the OS itself, but also your willingness or ability to maintain it.

Any minute you spend dealing with the OS is a minute you could've spent creatively.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Judd said:


> Because a lot of us have had the opposite experience. PC's have so many variable components. So what works great for you, might be a nightmare for me.


This, exactly.


----------



## PaulieDC

InLight-Tone said:


> Using windoze is for wimps...


Not wimps, cheapskates. My 128GB i9 14-core with 8 SSDs (5 of them NVMe) and a TON of other drives plus a massive video card for flight sim cost twelve grand less than the equivalent Mac version. I'm just a big cheapskate. 

FWIW, in May 1990, I paid $4600 for the 16-pound non-backlit MacPortable plus an extra $200 for a send megabyte of RAM, and another $200 for an internal 300 baud modem. Oh, $799 for the needed portable B&W inkjet printer. Eventually got a IIsi, Quadra 610. Oh, I still have my SE/30 with MasterTracks Pro on it. Total Mac fan. Will only use iOS devices and have since the start.

But considering what we have to spend on sample libraries, it makes zero send for me to spend $18K on a tower I built for $6K. Even composers like Guy Michelmore and Trevor Morris use big PC towers to handle the heavy lifting. HOWEVER, I will say that given what I know about Windows as a long time software developer, I can manage the insanity... the normal user is faced with a myriad of bizarre things that usually the tech world only knows, often leaving you stranded (like recovering from a blue screen after the May update like mine did).

I'll say this: Apple isn't exempt form OS version issues either... I see driver and app updates announced all the time to be compatible with the latest MacOS release sporting a bizarre naming scheme that you need a notebook to write down which version is which. "MyStream Deck software stopped running!" "Oh, are you still on SierraCatalinaMojaveMountainLion? You need to upgrade to EvergreenMontereyYosemiteCarburetor, but first you have to install SnowTigerPantherPuma because you can't directly upgrade, and we took that upgrade off the Apple site so go see a genius."

That's worth an extra $12K right there.


----------



## mscp

marius_dm said:


> Not sure why everyone is so against updates, I never had an update break anything and I’ve been using Windows for 25 years….


I've only been using Windows for 4 years, and I've always thought these complaints were weird (and kind of fake) since I've never had a single issue in the 4 years I've had my machines. And that's because I'm not a massive PC geek. I'd be better off if I were.



Tralen said:


> Agreed. Use the OS that you feel will give you the least trouble for the task. That involves not only the reliability of the OS itself, but also your willingness or ability to maintain it.
> 
> Any minute you spend dealing with the OS is a minute you could've spent creatively.



Exactly. Macs have caused me a lot of headaches in the studio and I've spent 2-3 days to fix them in the past. The whole premise that either one is worse is BULL****. It's the users willingness and skills that will dictate how one thing will work as desired. Bad things happen to both systems at some point. Deal with it.


----------



## PaulieDC

Phil81 said:


> Yet some people 'ere - (thou shall remain anonymous) - claim to have worked in IT for more than a decade and having a Mac solved all their "mysterious/paranormal" issues.
> 
> I've only been using Windows for 4 years, but I've always thought these complaints were massive BS since I've never had a single issue in the 4 years I've had my machines. And that's because I'm not a massive PC geek. I wish I knew more.


I'm a hopeless early adopter but generally have no huge issues either. The May update was the first to hose my Win10 installation, and it did it to two others' laptops (which they sent to me to fix). It started with a BSOD after reboot, Win10 wouldn't load. So I booted up off the Recovery USB THAT EVERY WINDOWS USER SHOULD MAKE, and got the Startup issues solved. But it disabled my USB 3.0 ports and internal bluetooth on the motherboard, nothing worked. My one USB 2.0 allowed me a mouse to use, and after removing and re-adding the messed up components in Device Manager and reinstalling drivers, it recovered. THAT was a decent mess, but that isn't the norm.

One of the laptops that was sent to me wouldn't recover. I had to pull the drive, copy off the user folder, then do a full Windows reset, then reinstall their stuff. Probably not a bad idea anyway but more time used than I had hoped.

One thing... since I built my tower, I obviously installed Windows OEM which has zero bloatware. And I only use the built-in Defender which is rather lightweight, no third-party antivirus EVER. Sometimes the 3rd party stuff can cause update issues.


----------



## mscp

PaulieDC said:


> The May update was the first to hose my Win10 installation, and it did it to two others' laptops (which they sent to me to fix). It started with a BSOD after reboot, Win10 wouldn;t load. So I booted up off the Recovery USB THAT EVERY WINDOWS USER SHOULD MAKE, and got the Startup issues solved. But it disabled my USB 3.0 ports and internal bluetooth on the motherboard, nothing worked. My one USB 2.0 allowed me a mouse to use, and after removing and re-adding the messed up compknents in Device Manager and reinstalling drivers, it recovered. THAT was a decent mess, but that isn't the norm.
> 
> One of the laptops that was sent to me wouldn't recover. I had to pull the drive, copy off the user folder, then do a full Windows reset, then reinstall their stuff. Probably not a bad idea anyway but more time used than I had hoped.


I hear a lot of windows-based laptop nightmares, that's why I haven't jumped to one yet. (still on a Mac)...but I feel safer with my PC desktops since I have a lot more control over what to get, how to build, etc...

I do want to trade my macbook to a windows-based one at some point but haven't decided on the brand yet. any recommendations?


----------



## PaulieDC

Phil81 said:


> I hear a lot of windows-based laptop nightmares, that's why I haven't jumped to one yet. (still on a Mac)...but I feel safer with my PC desktops since I have a lot more control over what to get, how to build, etc...
> 
> I do want to trade my macbook to a windows-based one at some point but haven't decided on the brand yet. any recommendations?


I'm a big MSI fan, both motherboards and gaming laptops. Oddly enough, I have an Acer Predator laptop which works rather well as a DAW workstation along with an Apogee One interface. The one Acer gripe: I got a 16GB/512GB model and I wanted to upgrade the RAM to 32GB and add a second 1TB NVMe drive, being Acer provided the slot. I did that and now it's great, BUT, it required me to completely disassemble the laptop, even removing the motherboard because the slots are buried underneath. Acer says it's not a user-serviceable update and I see why, lol! Done enough repairs to pull it off along with a Japanese video on YouTube which helped. Didn't need to understand the dialog, just watching the dude helped.

MSI gamer laptops are usually built with better upgrade access. Dell/AlienWare usually are very easy, but tend to run a little more $$ and sometimes the same specs as another brand doesn't always seem to run as fast, BUT, I haven't tested the latest models from 2020 and 2021. All three have great support, especially Acer (from past experience).


----------



## Polkasound

marius_dm said:


> Not sure why everyone is so against updates, I never had an update break anything and I’ve been using Windows for 25 years….


It's because you happen to be a Windows user who never had an update break anything. If an update did break something, you might think differently.

I've also been using Windows for over 25 years and never had an update cause too much grief, but because others have had more serious problems with updates, I choose to not to roll the dice.

I don't think most people are against updates, but rather how they are now delivered.


----------



## Toecutter

Any cool new feature for our niche stuff worth upgrading now?
I'll probably stick to 10 until Microsoft stops supporting it or I decide to build a new computer, whatever happens first.


----------



## Robo Rivard

I'm still traumatized by my 20H2 automatic update experience... Installing the update took 45 minutes, and when I restarted the computer, everything was reset!... Just like a fresh, new install... Absolute panic!... Fortunately, I found a way to go back to the previous state!... F**k unwanted updates!

I won't touch Windows 11 until 100% of the users can confirm that it rocks and bring substantial improvements. Since I'm extremely happy with the stability of my current system, I don't see why I should go look for unwanted problems.

Maybe on my next computer.


----------



## TomislavEP

Recently, I've updated my DAW and the other two computers I use regularly to 21H1 without zero issues (hopefully, it will stay that way). 

As I wrote earlier, I was an early adopter of W10 from the beginning and never had any serious problems with the OS. I don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I believe that MS has learned a lot lately from a boatload of mistakes related to Windows Update, so it should be (theoretically) "safe" to update if updates are shown as available for you. I don't need to mention the importance of backup, though.

Speaking of W11, to be honest, I didn't saw this coming. I've expected they would continue polishing W10 further, especially when it comes to design, usability, and streamlining the OS. I'm pretty satisfied with the performance of W10, but I'm not too keen on its privacy aspects and included bloatware. The GUI could also be even more aesthetically pleasing and feature-rich. Of course, there is a possibility that W11 would bring all of that (one can only hope).

I hope that W11 will be a free upgrade for us having legitimate licences from before, just like W10 was. I certainly won't rush with the upgrade during the period of baby illnesses. But if the new generation brings the majority of things that I'm personally hoping to see, I might be a (reasonably) new adopter again.


----------



## CATDAD

I actually had a refreshingly good experience with Win10, though I did wait out the first 2 years or so. Audio interface worked well, and was usually smart when I had to remove it and put it back in, when I changed project sample rate, etc. None of my MIDI stuff had any issues sending/receiving. Actually, I think audio work was probably where I had the least of my issues!

That being said, I've been on the Microsoft train long enough to know that the first couple years can be weird times. Win95 was big but didn't feel complete until Win98. Windows XP wasn't good until Service Pack 2. Windows Vista was terrible until it was fully formed to Windows 7.

That being said, if Windows 11 is just a major patch of Windows 10 I might give it a go. Windows 10 has always had a bit of a weird feeling to it, like it's an incomplete idea. Adjusting settings is a bit of a nightmare, going through a combination of its new UI, its old UI, and its even older UI at times. Some parts look like it wants to be a tablet interface, others like a desktop. Microsoft's Explorer file manager has been pretty much unchanged since Windows 3.1. I think it will largely depend on whether Windows 11 is totally new, or if it is in fact a more fully realized version of Windows 10.

...either way I'm gonna be mad if Explorer STILL doesn't have a dual-pane directory view, I've been waiting for over 25 years! It's literally an OS called "Windows"!


----------



## AudioLoco

I'm preparing to war: 
- physically remove my wifi card if needed at least for the first months....
- trust a final W10 system backup bootable backup to revert to at any time (actually...with Acronis being my current backup software a subscription, I just realized it will need a connection to work - d'oh!) with X program (Macrium??)
- No internet would mean I will not be able to install new software and NI controlled libraries for a bit (GAS cure and wallet saver, trying to see the positives here)
-Microsoft , your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!!


----------



## Neutron Star

Windows 10 updates over the last 7 months have: bricked one laptop; caused the touchpad on another laptop to go haywire after every update; Stopped the WIFI adapter to work on my music computer which required a system image to resolve. The only thing that stops me dumping windows is I detest apple as a company and its OS updates are even worse. Windows updates are Russian roulette and the wild west lately. Windows 11 will be the same S---t with a new name because it's just for the marketing department to try to flog " we have a new pig with a new face " PS I don't think this is user error as I used to be a computer programmer for a living.


----------



## Polkasound

I think everyone posting _"I don't get why all the hatred for Windows 10 updates, I've never had a problem,"_ needs to put theirself in @Neutron Star 's shoes for a moment. Like he said, Windows updates are Russian Roulette. The odds are in your favor, but somebody out there is guaranteed to get the bullet.

If I only used my PC for hobby and leisure purposes, then I'd be more daring with spinning the barrel and pulling the trigger. But when my PC goes down, it interferes with the daily operation of my business. That's why I've disabled automatic updates.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Polkasound said:


> I think everyone posting _"I don't get why all the hatred for Windows 10 updates, I've never had a problem,"_ needs to put theirself in @Neutron Star 's shoes for a moment. Like he said, Windows updates are Russian Roulette. The odds are in your favor, but somebody out there is guaranteed to get the bullet.
> 
> If I only used my PC for hobby and leisure purposes, then I'd be more daring with spinning the barrel and pulling the trigger. But when my PC goes down, it interferes with the daily operation of my business. That's why I've disabled automatic updates.


Same for Macs these days, only it's more guaranteed to break things that Apple doesn't deem "worthy" anymore. Pick your poison.


----------



## kitekrazy

vitocorleone123 said:


> Same for Macs these days, only it's more guaranteed to break things that Apple doesn't deem "worthy" anymore. Pick your poison.


The (d)evolving OS has been a curse on both sides of the aisle.

I don't do clean installs anymore. I don't want the risk of software or legacy hardware not working.


----------



## kitekrazy

easyrider said:


> Not updating windows is for wimps…😂


Some of us use to say that about M-Audio drivers.


----------



## vitocorleone123

kitekrazy said:


> The (d)evolving OS has been a curse on both sides of the aisle.
> 
> I don't do clean installs anymore. I don't want the risk of software or legacy hardware not working.


Priorities: have your computer work better or use old tech. Only you can make the call which is more important.


----------



## AudioLoco

vitocorleone123 said:


> Priorities: have your computer work better or use old tech. Only you can make the call which is more important.


In my experience there is 0... 0 improvement in Windows 10 over Windows 7 for example. (for working with audio, probably watching cat videos is better on W10)
It will be mainly cosmetic and towards pushing consumers to have to rely more and more on Microsoft products and being able to gather data on their clients as a result of a tighter and tighter internet integration.
"Old tech" is perfectly fine with me.


----------



## easyrider

AudioLoco said:


> In my experience there is 0... 0 improvement in Windows 10 over Windows 7 for example. (for working with audio, probably watching cat videos is better on W10)
> It will be mainly cosmetic and towards pushing consumers to have to rely more and more on Microsoft products and being able to gather data on their clients as a result of a tighter and tighter internet integration.
> "Old tech" is perfectly fine with me.


Security industry voices amplify the *Windows 7* warning

"Continuing to *use Windows 7* will make *you* a lot more vulnerable to viruses and your data being compromised," Forte says, "malicious attackers will be on alert knowing that a lot of *Windows 7* machines will now be very vulnerable."





__





Windows 7 support ended on January 14, 2020


Learn about end of support for Windows 7 and find out what you need to know to upgrade Windows or find a new PC.




support.microsoft.com


----------



## AudioLoco

easyrider said:


> Security industry voices amplify the *Windows 7* warning
> 
> "Continuing to *use Windows 7* will make *you* a lot more vulnerable to viruses and your data being compromised," Forte says, "malicious attackers will be on alert knowing that a lot of *Windows 7* machines will now be very vulnerable."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windows 7 support ended on January 14, 2020
> 
> 
> Learn about end of support for Windows 7 and find out what you need to know to upgrade Windows or find a new PC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> support.microsoft.com


Doesn't an antivirus solve the virus threat ? (if compatible with W7) - That is a genuine question.

As for my data, hackers are going to steal my synths presets? I have no sensible data on my working computer.

Apart from these security aspects, what other advantages does 10 have over 7 for what we need?
I am not aware of much improved performances.

PS I have been on W10 for a while and abandoned 7 looong ago, I was just trying to make the case that these "advanced" new OSs are more for the benefit of the company that makes them and probably for the casual user and not for pro users.


----------



## GtrString

Looking forward to see what under-the-hood improvements there are in Win11, now that they don't make the OS for smartphones anymore (like they did with Win10)!

On the positive wishlist is removed Microsoft dictatorship of updates, removal of hacker gatemotorways, removed Google translated corporate technobabble message system, and straight lines in the UI design 

On the negative side, I fear they try to make things as user friendly as they believe they can.


----------



## kitekrazy

lastmessiah said:


> Never had a single problem with Windows 10, and I always update as soon as available and even run the Insider builds. Sometimes I wonder just what it is people do to their computers when I see them moaning about Windows updates and such.


I have to undo somethings like remove password protect sharing.


----------



## Technostica

"Coupled with Gates ties to the coronavirus".

Thank God for the ignore feature on forums.
Two first posts I've seen by this person and both ignore worthy.
A new record.


----------



## easyrider

AudioLoco said:


> Doesn't an antivirus solve the virus threat ? (if compatible with W7) - That is a genuine question.



No, Windows has security patches built into the OS


AudioLoco said:


> Apart from these security aspects, what other advantages does 10 have over 7 for what we need?
> I am not aware of much improved performances.
> 
> PS I have been on W10 for a while and abandoned 7 looong ago, I was just trying to make the case that these "advanced" new OSs are more for the benefit of the company that makes them and probably for the casual user and not for pro users.


It’s just an OS…you're reading too much into it….You can pretty much manage what you want within windows pro….


----------



## AudioLoco

easyrider said:


> No, Windows has security patches built into the OS


I meant third party, like this for example:








Free Antivirus for Windows 7 | Download Now | Avast







www.avast.com


----------



## easyrider

AudioLoco said:


> I meant third party, like this for example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Free Antivirus for Windows 7 | Download Now | Avast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avast.com


Yes , but windows 7 will still be vulnerable due to the lack of security patches to the OS form Microsoft as it’s no longer supported


----------



## AudioLoco

easyrider said:


> Yes , but windows 7 will still be vulnerable due to the lack of security patches to the OS form Microsoft as it’s no longer supported


OK Got ya... Thanks for the explanation, I wasn't aware of that.


----------



## easyrider

AudioLoco said:


> OK Got ya... Thanks for the explanation, I wasn't aware of that.


👍


----------



## woodslanding

Well, just to weigh in. The VERY LAST update to windows broke the machine I'm typing on. Got random freezes of 5-10 seconds every minute or so. This is a straight production Dell laptop, 2 years old. Rolled back (which took a while to figure out how to do) and no problems since. I had the option to defer feature updates up to 365 days on my machine, and that's what I set it to. But I'll have to do a security update in 30... and hope the problem has been fixed by then.

I am the absolute opposite of excited about a new OS version. We just about got this one fixed, let's break it again.

That said, I think this might be my first update breaking something in 20 years. I say might, because I've certainly had plenty of issues over the years, just not one I could definitively trace back to an update.... usually hardware problems, actually, which is an edge you get with Macs, I'd say.


----------



## PaulieDC

So like some of the others on here, I'm part of the Microsoft Windows Insider program and I was sent a link to upgrade my laptop to Windows 11 Beta, which I did on my laptop two weeks ago. My workhorse Acer gaming laptop is my work-from-home machine, plus mobile Photoshop/Premiere, and mobile music rig although I don't have a huge need for a mobile rig right now. ANYHOO, I have Studio One Pro 5.3 and Cubase 11 LE on this laptop along with OT/Spitfire libraries and Kontakt 6, and will run a bunch of tests with the two DAWs. But I'm also keeping a list of any comparison or oddity or good point versus Windows 10 and will post that shortly. I like it a lot and I may just take an image of my main tower, upgrade to Windows 11 Beta on that and report back on Cubase 11 Pro, WaveLab, Dorico and all of my libraries which are mostly OT, SpitFire, EastWest, some VSL and a few other bits and bobs. Plus I just purchased Fab Filter Mastering plugins, own a ton of Waves and my beloved Lexicon PCM reverb set. Since I have no clients nor audio income, I don't mind jumping in. If 11 Beta performs well, 11 Pro should when it's released. When Win7 Beta came out it was so good, our dev team upgraded against company policy and we were writing software for the manufacturing floor of a semiconductor fab on Win 7 Beta. So far, 11 beta has got that same steady feel, we'll see how it goes.

You might ask why would you risk it and switch, and the #1 answer is newer code with heightened security that just comes with a new OS. TBH, Microsoft announces a new OS and we all cry doom and gloom, but practically every time Apple puts out a new OS, *stuff also breaks. *Apple and Microsoft have had their good and bad iterations of upgrades or new OS's (oh man, 30 years ago when Apple released System 7 with multiple windows we went bonkers!), but I'm telling you, Win 11 is starting out on the right foot after using it nearly 12 hours a day for the past two weeks, and it's just beta. It's like that Win 7 beta vibe all over again. I'll test it like crazy for MIDI work as I'm sure others will, but so far it's going well, unlike Vista and Windows 8.


----------



## Alchemedia

PaulieDC said:


> So like some of the others on here, I'm part of the Microsoft Windows Insider program and I was sent a link to upgrade my laptop to Windows 11 Beta, which I did on my laptop two weeks ago. My workhorse Acer gaming laptop is my work-from-home machine, plus mobile Photoshop/Premiere, and mobile music rig although I don't have a huge need for a mobile rig right now. ANYHOO, I have Studio One Pro 5.3 and Cubase 11 LE on this laptop along with OT/Spitfire libraries and Kontakt 6, and will run a bunch of tests with the two DAWs. But I'm also keeping a list of any comparison or oddity or good point versus Windows 10 and will post that shortly. I like it a lot and I may just take an image of my main tower, upgrade to Windows 11 Beta on that and report back on Cubase 11 Pro, WaveLab, Dorico and all of my libraries which are mostly OT, SpitFire, EastWest, some VSL and a few other bits and bobs. Plus I just purchased Fab Filter Mastering plugins, own a ton of Waves and my beloved Lexicon PCM reverb set. Since I have no clients nor audio income, I don't mind jumping in. If 11 Beta performs well, 11 Pro should when it's released. When Win7 Beta came out it was so good, our dev team upgraded against company policy and we were writing software for the manufacturing floor of a semiconductor fab on Win 7 Beta. So far, 11 beta has got that same steady feel, we'll see how it goes.
> 
> You might ask why would you risk it and switch, and the #1 answer is newer code with heightened security that just comes with a new OS. TBH, Microsoft announces a new OS and we all cry doom and gloom, but practically every time Apple puts out a new OS, *stuff also breaks. *Apple and Microsoft have had their good and bad iterations of upgrades or new OS's (oh man, 30 years ago when Apple released System 7 with multiple windows we went bonkers!), but I'm telling you, Win 11 is starting out on the right foot after using it nearly 12 hours a day for the past two weeks, and it's just beta. It's like that Win 7 beta vibe all over again. I'll test it like crazy for MIDI work as I'm sure others will, but so far it's going well, unlike Vista and Windows 8.


Thx, I appreciate your insight. As an MS Insider's Guinea pig myself I'm highly tempted to take it for a spin.


----------



## sostenuto

Working well on (2) Desktop PC(s), but not yet noting any 'exciting' changes /improvements. Actually slight 'clumsiness' with routine, daily housekeeping tasks, like checking for Updates, Store Updates, Taskbar. No big deal, but initial Update to 11 Pro indicated these Desktops will not qualify for release in October. If these don't, large population won't either. Older i5 quads, SSD(s), 32GB DDR3. rock solid for longtime. Frustration will be likelihood of 'forced' clean install of Win10 Pro when exiting 11Pro. 
Huge, paid, inventory of orchestral plugins, synths to reinstall. 😡


----------



## PaulieDC

Alchemedia said:


> Thx, I appreciate your insight. As an MS Insider's Guinea pig myself I'm highly tempted to take it for a spin.


Nice! Just ghost your drive, you can always go back. The UI is a little sleeker, I like it. Definitely stole stuff from MacOS. BTW, printer drivers need to be reinstalled, jsyk.


----------



## Alchemedia

"Custom PC-building geek, at least my hardware works, lol."
Ditto! 😎


----------



## PaulieDC

sostenuto said:


> Working well on (2) Desktop PC(s), but not yet noting any 'exciting' changes /improvements. Actually slight 'clumsiness' with routine, daily housekeeping tasks, like checking for Updates, Store Updates, Taskbar. No big deal, but initial Update to 11 Pro indicated these Desktops will not qualify for release in October. If these don't, large population won't either. Older i5 quads, SSD(s), 32GB DDR3. rock solid for longtime. Frustration will be likelihood of 'forced' clean install of Win10 Pro when exiting 11Pro.
> Huge, paid, inventory of orchestral plugins, synths to reinstall. 😡


Yeah, I'm seeing the small bits like that too. I actually reworked the TaskBar to look and feel like Win 10 because I'm used to it. I went back to left-orientation for the TaskBar icons, not feeling it centered. I DO like the new Start menu, once I deleted the preloaded junk and put my own links in. The Settings will take some getting used to, the left-navigation of the CATEGORIES is totally different, then you pick your choices from a big ListBox basically. It makes more sense but feels heavy... you have to stop and rethink what you are trying to change, and to me there are too many clicks to get to what you want, such as Updates, etc.

Clean Install: yeah. That. Weekend project. I try to do that anyway once every 18-24 months and it's been 36 months since I built my tower, so I'm due anyway. But right now my Win 10 setup on my tower is so dialed in finally, I don't want to mess with it! Eventually I will. I'll start with the upgrade and see how it goes. Especially RME and Apogee drivers, THAT'S the one I'm really interest in. I get 5-6 ms latency at 256 samples on my tower with the BabyFace Pro, it's so nice I don't want to touch it, lol!


----------



## PaulieDC

Alchemedia said:


> "Custom PC-building geek, at least my hardware works, lol."
> Ditto! 😎


"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate." Ha Ha! Maybe tweak that to say Abandon all hope of not draining your bank account, all who enter here! 😂 Dante was a MIDI Composer evidently... they just forgot to add that in his Wikipedia page.


----------



## Alchemedia

PaulieDC said:


> "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate." Ha Ha! Maybe tweak that to say Abandon all hope of not draining your bank account, all who enter here! 😂 Dante was a MIDI Composer evidently... they just forgot to add that in his Wikipedia page.


That's pretty much what I was implying. 
I've been patiently waiting for someone to comment on that. 😎👍


----------



## dzilizzi

Well, the last update just crashed my music machine. So frustrating because I wanted to do an image before the update ran, but it started anyway, even though I tried to delay. Though truthfully, I am not sure how much I've updated since the last image. Except my Cubase template.

Edit: I just remembered, the Cubase "template" is on another drive. I am safe to use the image.


----------



## Alchemedia

Thanks for the warning.


----------



## hoxclab

I'm done with Windows. Bill Gates is a sicko.


----------



## sostenuto

Win11 Pro _ V. 21H2 _ OS Build 22000.194 _ Running OK on (2) Desktop PC(s), Reaper v6.36, Kontakt v6.6.1. 
Remain worried re. forced return to Win10 Pro since warned about current hardware not qualifying. Very displeased that solid ASUS H87M-PLUS _ MB, i5 - 4440 Quad, 32GB DDR3 Dual Ch. - SSD(s) are 'unacceptable' !! 😖


----------



## Kevin Fortin

Thank goodness my CPU (AMD Ryzen 5 1600) is not supported by Windows 11.

I wish I could replace the Windows shell with Gnome 3, though.


----------



## PaulieDC

Been on Win11 on my work laptop for a couple months but I do have Studio One Pro v5.4 on it and it seems to run fine, although I haven’t stress tested it yet. Cubase 11 LE won’t run yet, hangs and spits, but to be fair, the Steinberg Dev team is probably working with Win11 so a compatible version will be available once 11 is released. Can’t expect that monumental bucket of code collected over 30 years to run fine on a beta OS.

Found out my i9-7940x proc isn’t 11 compatible… but my mobo is and MSI will most likely have drivers. I can pop a 10th gen proc in the mobo, and spend the weekend reinstalling Win10 and my world (UGH). Do I do it? Part of me says keep what I have, the IT side of me (day job side) says it’ll eventually bite me and I had better future-proof. Normally I wouldn’t worry about it, but a 2017 processor that’s not compatible with Win11 is a bit odd, which suggests under-the-hood architecture changes a-comin‘ from the big M… hmmmm… seems like I should get the proc upgrade done, install 10, then I’ll be ready for 11 after it’s been out and patched for, say, two years, lol. Nah, I’m the curious (I.e. stupid) early adopter, resistance is futile.


----------



## sostenuto

PaulieDC said:


> Been on Win11 on my work laptop for a couple months but I do have Studio One Pro v5.4 on it and it seems to run fine, although I haven’t stress tested it yet. Cubase 11 LE won’t run yet, hangs and spits, but to be fair, the Steinberg Dev team is probably working with Win11 so a compatible version will be available once 11 is released. Can’t expect that monumental bucket of code collected over 30 years to run fine on a beta OS.
> 
> Found out my i9-7940x proc isn’t 11 compatible… but my mobo is and MSI will most likely have drivers. I can pop a 10th gen proc in the mobo, and spend the weekend reinstalling Win10 and my world (UGH). Do I do it? Part of me says keep what I have, the IT side of me (day job side) says it’ll eventually bite me and I had better future-proof. Normally I wouldn’t worry about it, but a 2017 processor that’s not compatible with Win11 is a bit odd, which suggests under-the-hood architecture changes a-comin‘ from the big M… hmmmm… seems like I should get the proc upgrade done, install 10, then I’ll be ready for 11 after it’s been out and patched for, say, two years, lol. Nah, I’m the curious (I.e. stupid) early adopter, resistance is futile.


Much disgust with MS and communication to Insiders as Win 11 Pro was coming. If a solution is provided to smoothly & easily move back to Win10 Pro, then some relief, but still unsatisfactory. 
For huge population, iOS is not possible, so what choice do we /they have ? 
Would consider seriously going another path, if there was one .... and MS surely knows this.


----------



## wcreed51

No problems with Win11 here, including Cubase. Printer, scanner, Scarlett all fine. Occasional minor glitches with Windows Explorer, but that's it so far.


----------



## PaulieDC

sostenuto said:


> Much disgust with MS and communication to Insiders as Win 11 Pro was coming. If a solution is provided to smoothly & easily move back to Win10 Pro, then some relief, but still unsatisfactory.
> For huge population, iOS is not possible, so what choice do we /they have ?
> Would consider seriously going another path, if there was one .... and MS surely knows this.


Although you can right-click any .exe, choose Properties, click the compatibility tab and tell it to run as Windows 10 I would think. In 10 I do that for older stuff and it usually works.


----------



## PaulieDC

Ah, that's what I thought, Steinberg is trying to sort 11 all out to ensure compatibility... problem is, Microsoft version releases are a moving target until they patch all of the post-release issues.



https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/4407350910866-Windows-11-product-compatibility


----------



## Virtuoso

PaulieDC said:


> Found out my i9-7940x proc isn’t 11 compatible… but my mobo is and MSI will most likely have drivers.


There are a few ways around that - as a test, I just installed Win11 yesterday on an old i7 4700k with a motherboard that must be about 8 years old (no TPM) and it's working fine.

Check out this post for links etc


----------



## MartinH.

Maybe if win 11 is out they stop updating win 10 so that the forced auto update is less of an issue on 10


----------



## Technostica

MartinH. said:


> Maybe if win 11 is out they stop updating win 10 so that the forced auto update is less of an issue on 10


That's what I have been saying. 
But there is still supposed to be one last major update for W10 before they move it to a condo in Florida.


----------



## Loerpert

MartinH. said:


> Maybe if win 11 is out they stop updating win 10 so that the forced auto update is less of an issue on 10



Win 10 will be supported till 2025


----------



## GNP

José Herring said:


> Let's just say I haven't had the best of luck upgrading OS in the past. Something I have always breaks.


I've never really had severe problems with updating windows, but I'm also very cautious in this regard.


----------



## MartinH.

Loerpert said:


> Win 10 will be supported till 2025


Some security patches might be fine, I just hope they stop fucking with it in a more fundamental way. I just want my system to be stable. 



Technostica said:


> But there is still supposed to be one last major update for W10 before they move it to a condo in Florida.


What a weird world we live in, where "major update" sounds scary as fuck.


----------



## TonalDynamics

MartinH. said:


> Some security patches might be fine, I just hope they stop fucking with it in a more fundamental way. I just want my system to be stable.
> 
> 
> What a weird world we live in, where "major update" sounds scary as fuck.


It's announcements like this that made me glad I chose to install W10 LTSC 2019 (A branch of Enterprise edition) as the OS for my music workstation:

It's made for factory interface terminals, always-on shopping kiosks, hospital equipment, etc.

More or less any system that NEEDS to be 100% stable, online all the time, with a minimum of 'major updates', but still all of the security updates.

Couldn't be happier with my decision, and this _super_ lightweight version of windows is ideal for performance as well

It also has 5 years of extended update support beyond the usual 5 years support after a new OS comes out, so I should be good 'til 2029 (I hope)...

But then not more than 2 or 3 years ago Microsoft also said "WinD0Wz 10 WilL bE the lAsT WIndoWS EvER", so who knows what the hell will happen 🤷

With MS it's usually just a matter of trying hard to work around the bullshit they attempt to force upon you at every turn (which Apple also does in spades), so I don't plan on upgrading until I've got no other options just like I did with W10


----------



## MartinH.

TonalDynamics said:


> It's announcements like this that made me glad I chose to install W10 LTSC 2019 (A branch of Enterprise edition) as the OS for my music workstation:



Never heard of it. At first it sounded really good but I want to do gaming on that computer as well and it seems like there are some things that either don't work or are at least a hassle to get to work? There are some infos in this reddit thread:


I'll probably go for the "normal" win 10 because the bullshit I'll have to deal with there is hopefully better documented. But I really appreciate the suggestion, if I had different priorities I'd seriously consider the LTSC route and I think it's great that this is an option! Thanks for letting us know about this!


----------



## MegaPixel

From what I know about iOS, cough erm I mean windows 11...

1. It wont auto update from win10 as it requires TPM compatible hardware. (Well I hope it doesn't try to auto update or I will be pissed)

2. It's slower performance in games.

3. It's full of web searches and adverts.

4. It's got a mobile GUI/UI interface.

5. Task bar is in the middle like OSX (but there are hacks which allow you to put it back to the left)

6. No more moving the task bar / snapping to any side of screen.

I most certainly wont be downgrading from win10 pro... The kernel is already slow enough, adding TPM to the mix will probably increase latency times... Again...


----------



## d.healey

MegaPixel said:


> but there are hacks which allow you to put it back to the left


Not a hack, you just have to have the a licensed version, beause moving your start menu is a pro feature.


----------



## MegaPixel

d.healey said:


> Not a hack, you just have to have the a licensed version, beause moving your start menu is a pro feature


That's just sad... 

But I have to buy the OS (pro) version for work so will always be the pro or ultimate in win7's case.

I hope someday, some linux distro takes over for windows, if adobe creative cloud ran on linux and all my DAWs and VSTs with as little problem solving as possible (compatibility & no virtualization (wine etc)), I would switch today.

But I'm not a fan of having mobile phone style popups / cards and notifications etc.

I will wait till end of life of win10 pro till I make the downgrade.


----------



## d.healey

MegaPixel said:


> I hope someday, some linux distro takes over for windows,


Try Linux Mint.

Wine doesn't use virtualisation, if you do use it I recommend running Windows apps through PlayOnLinux. It manages Wine versions and keeps each Windows app isolated in its own folder structure. The biggest problem I've found running Windows apps on GNU/Linux is getting the authentication systems like iLok to work, apart from that I've never really had too much trouble.


----------



## MegaPixel

d.healey said:


> Mint


I had my eye on: Ubuntu Studio or AV Linux.

RE: Virtualisation / Emulation / Wrappers etc
That's the thing, I would really like to get these things running directly, native linux. God only knows what would happen with Adobe Creative Suite on Linux (GPU processing etc), adobe software is bad enough on windows as it is.

But I start to do some experiments over the next few months, I got a lot of drives floating about I can mess about with, install a distro, tinker and screw up without worry. Time is the only problem.


----------



## d.healey

MegaPixel said:


> I had my eye on: Ubuntu Studio or AV Linux.


Out of those two I'd go with Ubuntu Studio. AV Linux is a bit behind on the latest packages.


----------



## vitocorleone123

MegaPixel said:


> From what I know about iOS, cough erm I mean windows 11...
> 
> 1. It wont auto update from win10 as it requires TPM compatible hardware. (Well I hope it doesn't try to auto update or I will be pissed)
> 
> 2. It's slower performance in games.
> 
> 3. It's full of web searches and adverts.
> 
> 4. It's got a mobile GUI/UI interface.
> 
> 5. Task bar is in the middle like OSX (but there are hacks which allow you to put it back to the left)
> 
> 6. No more moving the task bar / snapping to any side of screen.
> 
> I most certainly wont be downgrading from win10 pro... The kernel is already slow enough, adding TPM to the mix will probably increase latency times... Again...



I don't understand #4. Examples of what you/they consider this to be and why you think it's an issue?

HBS/VCI supposedly won't be enabled by default unless you're buying a computer with an OEM install. Take those out of the equation and Windows doesn't seem to be any slower at all.


----------



## MegaPixel

vitocorleone123 said:


> I don't understand #4. Examples of what you/they consider this to be and why you think it's an issue?


As a Web Developer (UK) / Web Engineer (US) / Programmer, I need a workstation not a mobile GUI which is throwing cards/popups slide out screens of information on news, my so called interests or the weather. On my mobile sure, but still even on apple or android devices I disable all the news slide out features, popups etc... The only thing I need is the time and the alarm (on a mobile). On a desktop, all I need and expect quick and fast access to my programs, for them to run without hassle or to deal with some new widget MS has injected into it's GUI and when working. When working with audio I want the lowest latency times possible from the kernel, drivers and all background services running, I dont want windows to have to process these widgets and flyouts and animations. Hands off my CPU and GPU, I need them to focus on the more important stuff.

I don't want a mobile experience on a workstation.

These are things which I think may be nice for someone like my mother or father who have no idea what they are doing and are there just to browse the web or use amazon or maybe watch netflix.

The other important factor is document/file organisation, Linux has been light years ahead of windows on this for easily over 15 years now. I want to organise my desktop files and folders as I want and see fit. I now use a tools from stardock called fences for this on windows. But everything on my drives and network are organised and categorised.

- NVME 1TB EVO Samsung: Win 10 Pro - Default boot drive - Programming & Gaming
- SSD 1TB EVO Samsung: Win 10 Pro - Bootable - Audio Production (latency optimised)
- SSD 1TB EVO Samsung: Ubuntu - Media, causal and maybe some light work tools

- SSD 4TB EVO Samsung: Audio storage (NI, VSTS, Software, Presets & Samples etc)
- SSD 1TB Evo Samsung: Work (Projects are small and are github / gdrive synced so 1 in 1 out)
- WD Black 2TB Games
- WD Black 8TB Backup 1 - Internal - (I do a manual raid 2 mirror using some software I wrote)
- WD Black 8TB Backup 2 - External - (Mirror)
- SSD 1 TB EVO Samsung: - External plug and play, take things around with me (sick of USB Key speeds)

However...
Even with my i9 9900k OCd, 64GB DDR4 3600 Ram running an XMP profile and RTX3080, there are some terrible latency issues with many things, especially on the audio front.

*So I triple boot:
Work (Programming):*
Windows 10 Pro, all my work tools installed etc including audio tools but I don't expect the best latency times. Steam, Epic store, Ubisoft launcher etc is also installed but on a WD Black (the only choice of drive IMO) dedicated to that.

*Audio*
This is when latency is paramount, Window 10 Pro, stripped down, manually killed a lot of services, many startup programs, NVSlimmer installed NVidia driver (Rips out all the bload, tracking and BS), and the list goes on.

*Casual & Programming*
Ubuntu, some programming tools, media tools and general stuff for web and netflix consumption


I don't appreciate widgets sliding out, or start bars full of adverts, start menus that can't be configured to do what you want or find the programs you have installed, cortana, telemetry, the list goes on...


----------



## Pictus

MegaPixel said:


> *Audio*
> This is when latency is paramount, Window 10 Pro, stripped down, manually killed a lot of services, many startup programs, NVSlimmer installed NVidia driver (Rips out all the bload, tracking and BS), and the list goes on.


The tweaks
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/nvidia-driver-no-latency-anymore.87448/#post-4489683

Just installed Windows 11 and in the process of tweaking the bloat out...
Our Windows 11 friends!
https://www.builtbybel.com/blog/19-apps/43-try-the-new-thisiswin11-app-and-get-some-powertoys-for-windows-11 
https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
https://msmgtoolkit.in/


----------



## vitocorleone123

MegaPixel said:


> As a Web Developer (UK) / Web Engineer (US) / Programmer, I need a workstation not a mobile GUI which is throwing cards/popups slide out screens of information on news, my so called interests or the weather. On my mobile sure, but still even on apple or android devices I disable all the news slide out features, popups etc... The only thing I need is the time and the alarm (on a mobile). On a desktop, all I need and expect quick and fast access to my programs, for them to run without hassle or to deal with some new widget MS has injected into it's GUI and when working. When working with audio I want the lowest latency times possible from the kernel, drivers and all background services running, I dont want windows to have to process these widgets and flyouts and animations. Hands off my CPU and GPU, I need them to focus on the more important stuff.
> 
> I don't want a mobile experience on a workstation.
> 
> These are things which I think may be nice for someone like my mother or father who have no idea what they are doing and are there just to browse the web or use amazon or maybe watch netflix.
> 
> The other important factor is document/file organisation, Linux has been light years ahead of windows on this for easily over 15 years now. I want to organise my desktop files and folders as I want and see fit. I now use a tools from stardock called fences for this on windows. But everything on my drives and network are organised and categorised.
> 
> - NVME 1TB EVO Samsung: Win 10 Pro - Default boot drive - Programming & Gaming
> - SSD 1TB EVO Samsung: Win 10 Pro - Bootable - Audio Production (latency optimised)
> - SSD 1TB EVO Samsung: Ubuntu - Media, causal and maybe some light work tools
> 
> - SSD 4TB EVO Samsung: Audio storage (NI, VSTS, Software, Presets & Samples etc)
> - SSD 1TB Evo Samsung: Work (Projects are small and are github / gdrive synced so 1 in 1 out)
> - WD Black 2TB Games
> - WD Black 8TB Backup 1 - Internal - (I do a manual raid 2 mirror using some software I wrote)
> - WD Black 8TB Backup 2 - External - (Mirror)
> - SSD 1 TB EVO Samsung: - External plug and play, take things around with me (sick of USB Key speeds)
> 
> However...
> Even with my i9 9900k OCd, 64GB DDR4 3600 Ram running an XMP profile and RTX3080, there are some terrible latency issues with many things, especially on the audio front.
> 
> *So I triple boot:
> Work (Programming):*
> Windows 10 Pro, all my work tools installed etc including audio tools but I don't expect the best latency times. Steam, Epic store, Ubisoft launcher etc is also installed but on a WD Black (the only choice of drive IMO) dedicated to that.
> 
> *Audio*
> This is when latency is paramount, Window 10 Pro, stripped down, manually killed a lot of services, many startup programs, NVSlimmer installed NVidia driver (Rips out all the bload, tracking and BS), and the list goes on.
> 
> *Casual & Programming*
> Ubuntu, some programming tools, media tools and general stuff for web and netflix consumption
> 
> 
> I don't appreciate widgets sliding out, or start bars full of adverts, start menus that can't be configured to do what you want or find the programs you have installed, cortana, telemetry, the list goes on...


Ok. But the UX design choices for the platform aren’t inherent to the device used. That is, those features you described are clearly not being used only on mobile if they’re on your desktop and, therefore, aren’t mobile features. They are features that can also work on mobile, at best.

You (developers) are also not the most important user of Windows to the business. You are not a typical user, either. That said, it would be silly of Microsoft to not have a version or mode for developers that typical users wouldn’t stumble across. I’m not saying these are necessarily good choices Microsoft made for their typical users, but we don’t have the data that went into those decisions.

We, as atypical users (makers of music in this case), just need to find ways to work around obstacles and hope Microsoft didn’t completely block that.


----------



## TonalDynamics

MartinH. said:


> Never heard of it. At first it sounded really good but I want to do gaming on that computer as well and it seems like there are some things that either don't work or are at least a hassle to get to work? There are some infos in this reddit thread:
> 
> 
> I'll probably go for the "normal" win 10 because the bullshit I'll have to deal with there is hopefully better documented. But I really appreciate the suggestion, if I had different priorities I'd seriously consider the LTSC route and I think it's great that this is an option! Thanks for letting us know about this!



My pleasure, I feel like working is hard enough, and the least any of us deserve is a stable OS.

But as far as gaming is concerned, in the 2.5 years I've been on this OS I've had 0 Nvidia driver conflicts (1080 Ti) , and 0 issues with gaming and my steam library is fairly large.

In fact there's probably _less_ issues with gaming on this OS than with other versions, because it has 0 background tasks (or rather no CPU-consuming ones), but I haven't sought out any actual benchmarks

The only thing you actually notice being gone is the Windows Store app, which you do need to install certain office and productivity applications, for apps which for some unknown reason decide not to release their own install binaries (which is rare, but only small drawback frankly), and even then there are still workarounds which I used to install OneNote on my system

Cheers


----------



## MegaPixel

TonalDynamics said:


> install certain office and productivity applications


You can avoid MS Office completely with Libra Office, it's not a 1 to 1 conversion when a MS Office user opens a DOCX / PPT etc in their tools but it's close enough. Calc for Excel, works as it should. And the bonus of Libra Office Draw.

There's also Open Office or in the worst case scenario use the google docs, has you covered for word, excel and ppt.

As stick note app, which it's not intended to be used as I use Notepad++ often for quick programming edits or keeping files open long term but to also keep notes and not save the file, when you re-open the program the tab is still there and you can have quick access notes with some interesting & useful features the program offers, but may be more of a programmer thing.


----------



## MegaPixel

vitocorleone123 said:


> But the UX design choices for the platform aren’t inherent to the device used. That is, those features you described are clearly not being used only on mobile if they’re on your desktop and, therefore, aren’t mobile features. They are features that can also work on mobile, at best.
> 
> You (developers) are also not the most important user of Windows to the business. You are not a typical user, either. That said, it would be silly of Microsoft to not have a version or mode for developers that typical users wouldn’t stumble across. I’m not saying these are necessarily good choices Microsoft made for their typical users, but we don’t have the data that went into those decisions.
> 
> We, as atypical users (makers of music in this case), just need to find ways to work around obstacles and hope Microsoft didn’t completely block that.


Well, technically windows 11 is aimed to take over for the notebook, smaller device stuff and multi-screen device stuff also, which is why they axed some version of windows (cant remember name) and brought some (if not all) it's features into it... Remind you of something? Windows 8, the full screen start menu was designed based around their mobile OS and for touch screen technology and tablets.

But even as you call atypical users, or people like my mother, I can almost hear it, when windows 11 gets installed on her machine... "Why doesn't this do what it did before?", "Why is this popping up?", "Where are the things I normally use?", "Where's my background?", "Why doesn't it connect to my phone the same anymore? Wheres the button to get my photos?"... and on... and on....

Me.... "Have you tried turning it on and off again?" 

But yes, lets hope they have overlooked ways we can hack the crap out of the OS to get it to work the way en mass wants it and each individual user can configure it the way they want it, with the least amount of registry hacks, 3rd party tools etc...


----------



## vitocorleone123

MegaPixel said:


> Well, technically windows 11 is aimed to take over for the notebook, smaller device stuff and multi-screen device stuff also, which is why they axed some version of windows (cant remember name) and brought some (if not all) it's features into it... Remind you of something? Windows 8, the full screen start menu was designed based around their mobile OS and for touch screen technology and tablets.
> 
> But even as you call atypical users, or people like my mother, I can almost hear it, when windows 11 gets installed on her machine... "Why doesn't this do what it did before?", "Why is this popping up?", "Where are the things I normally use?", "Where's my background?", "Why doesn't it connect to my phone the same anymore? Wheres the button to get my photos?"... and on... and on....
> 
> Me.... "Have you tried turning it on and off again?"
> 
> But yes, lets hope they have overlooked ways we can hack the crap out of the OS to get it to work the way en mass wants it and each individual user can configure it the way they want it, with the least amount of registry hacks, 3rd party tools etc...


Yes! (I also understand better where you're coming from - thanks for continuing in detail)

I keep my task bar at the top of my screen (atypical), so not being able to do that is... unfortunate. Hopefully more hacks/features will be enabled.

I'm also advising my parents to not upgrade so as to not learn where the Start button went, etc. (they're getting into their late 70s and learning computers/changes is becoming harder and harder).


----------



## MegaPixel

vitocorleone123 said:


> parents to not upgrade so as to not learn where the Start button went, etc. (they're getting into their late 70s and learning computers/changes is becoming harder and harder).


Oh god tell me about it...

Takes me 15 minutes on the phone to get them to run TeamViewer to do something as simple as resize and re-position the web browser for them...

"No... Click on what I say... What do you see? You got to tell me what you are seeing, I'm not there remember... No... No... What did you open? Ok close that... There's an X at the top right... No don't do that... Just do what I say... Bottom left there's a box like button, move your mouse over that and press the left mouse button, once...".... 

And then I try and re-teach them what the maximize and minimize buttons do on each window again.... And that Netflix & Youtube has a full screen button on the video player also...


----------



## Wedge

vitocorleone123 said:


> Yes! (I also understand better where you're coming from - thanks for continuing in detail)
> 
> I keep my task bar at the top of my screen (atypical), so not being able to do that is... unfortunate. Hopefully more hacks/features will be enabled.
> 
> I'm also advising my parents to not upgrade so as to not learn where the Start button went, etc. (they're getting into their late 70s and learning computers/changes is becoming harder and harder).


There's a registry tweak that allows you to move the taskbar to the top. But not to the sides.


----------



## Kevin Fortin

So what I've read makes it sound like this is really just cosmetic "enhancements" to Windows 10 that move things around so that you have to relearn how to do things.

If Windows 10 will be supported for a few more years I'll just stick with that.


----------



## MegaPixel

Kevin Fortin said:


> So what I've read makes it sound like this is really just cosmetic "enhancements" to Windows 10 that move things around so that you have to relearn how to do things.
> 
> If Windows 10 will be supported for a few more years I'll just stick with that.


*RE: Windows 10 Support Life*
Microsoft is ending support for Windows 10 on October 14th, 2025...

However my bets they will probably support it for longer than that, they usually keep rolling out updates for another year or 2 past end of life. Mostly due to large companies and government installations using it. Typically any high/major security patches will filter down to the public for a year or maybe 2 even after support has ended (win xp had patches for nearly 5 years past end of support life).

*RE: Windows 11 Just a cosmetic and GUI/UI change*
Well it's supposed to be more secure thanks to TPM v?, but I doubt it very much. Other changes to the kernel etc but nothing a typical windows update couldn't have covered (service pack level release - eg xp sp1,2, win 7 sp 2 etc).

*RE: Sticking with windows 10 for a few more years*
I like you will be sticking with win10 for as long as humanly possible. Unless work requires it for some reason...


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## Kevin Fortin

@MegaPixel: I'm hoping that by 2025 we will finally have antigrav aircars as well as safe and affordable borging and gene-mod options. If those actually happen I might not need an external computer.


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## germancomponist

When Windows 11 comes, you can only use it if you answer Bill Gates' questions: who are you, how old are you, which party do you vote for, what illness do you have, what do you eat, are you gay, etc. . .... And of course you have to agree that Microsoft monitors you completely 24 hours a day.


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## MegaPixel

Kevin Fortin said:


> @MegaPixel: I'm hoping that by 2025 we will finally have antigrav aircars as well as safe and affordable borging and gene-mod options. If those actually happen I might not need an external computer.



Sign me up...

Get some nerve gear going, VR will no longer be needed, direct brain integration and interaction for all our senses (2 way - i/o - musk of elon's brain link maybe). AR will be contact lenses (see certain black mirror episodes)... Oddly someone done a video camera in contact lenses 5 or 6 year ago.

Then upload me to the matrix before my end of life or insanity sets in...
File move, not file copy


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## MegaPixel

germancomponist said:


> When Windows 11 comes, you can only use it if you answer Bill Gates' questions: who are you, how old are you, which party do you vote for, what illness do you have, what do you eat, are you gay, etc. . .... And of course you have to agree that Microsoft monitors you completely 24 hours a day.


Windows already has secret folders, you wont find them on any powershell, dos, cli, file explorer show hidden file search, you have to know the exact path to get into them.

Back in 2005, I was watching TCP packets of information on our work machines, they were using an in house MS exchange server but there was a stready trickle of TCP data being sent out of my machine (everyones) machine while it was on. Went looking in some of those hidden folders and read some of the files using a hex editor (Ultraedit) and found parts of the text from the Outlook email local storage database it reads on application startup stored in some of the files in there, and conveniently they were the ones being trickled out over tcp at very very very slow internet speeds so as not to be noticed.

Still happens to this day...

MS is just as evil as Google and Apple...

The only choice these days is, who is the least evil...?


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## Kevin Fortin

MegaPixel said:


> Sign me up...
> 
> Get some nerve gear going, VR will no longer be needed, direct brain integration and interaction for all our senses (2 way - i/o - musk of elon's brain link maybe). AR will be contact lenses (see certain black mirror episodes)... Oddly someone done a video camera in contact lenses 5 or 6 year ago.
> 
> Then upload me to the matrix before my end of life or insanity sets in...
> File move, not file copy


Just who is the 5 o'clock ghost in the machine?

Sorry -- back to Windows 11

(how quaint  )


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## Kevin Fortin

Will Windows 11 break all the apps, like every OSX "upgrade" seems to do?


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## MegaPixel

Kevin Fortin said:


> Will Windows 11 break all the apps, like every OSX "upgrade" seems to do?


My guess is anything that integrates with the GUI/UI, desktop etc might run into problems and need fixing... And anything that TPM security conflicts with might have issues also, so that could be all AV software... Hopefully that will be it...


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## d.healey

Another opinion - https://www.fsf.org/news/lifes-better-together-when-you-avoid-windows-11


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## Technostica

d.healey said:


> Another opinion - https://www.fsf.org/news/lifes-better-together-when-you-avoid-windows-11


"Developing nonfree software is an inherently antisocial act, for it is intentionally _choosing_ to create an unjust power structure, in which a developer knowingly keeps users powerless and dependent by withholding information." 

Some of the points in the article I found interesting, but other stuff came across as a mix of a cult and conspiracy theories. 
Fascinating.


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## Technostica

The worst thing that ever happened to Windows?
iOS.


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## Kevin Fortin

d.healey said:


> Another opinion - https://www.fsf.org/news/lifes-better-together-when-you-avoid-windows-11


Hmm, reminds me of Kung Fu schools protecting their secrets.
Always important for holding on to the advantage.

Maybe because of our developmental history we are primed to suck the profit out of each other, and maybe because of increasing self-awareness we are approaching the time when we stop doing that (admittedly, that might be three thousand years later).


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## Pictus

11, you know...


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