# Hollywood string writing



## webdesigner91 (Dec 2, 2011)

I would like to know more about the typical Hollywood string writing


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## JJP (Dec 3, 2011)

It's not much different from classical string writing. Good Hollywood orchestrators study classical scores.


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## Daryl (Dec 3, 2011)

webdesigner91 @ Sat Dec 03 said:


> I would like to know more about the typical Hollywood string writing


What composers are you interested in? Some of them don't really write for strings, as most of that is done by the orchestrator.

D


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## mikebarry (Dec 3, 2011)

It actually is a touch different for 2 reasons:

1) You need to write for the mixer, in other words imagine the mixing while composing, it changes dynamics, extreme ranges etc... Close mics - a blessing and a curse

2) You have to compete against years of big sounds - keep sections together while you can. Where as Tchaikovsky often wrote his tunes for VI with VII tacet we rarely do this. 

Best advice I have is to piano reduce the John Williams signature editions this is how I tought my self to write and orchestrate. Every day I was at the library doing this for about 2 years.


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## DocMidi657 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hi Mike Barry,

Great post/answer! Can you elaborate a a little more about the process of a "piano Reduction" of a John Williams Score?

Did you create solo piano arrangements of John Williams scores?.... and if so did you do this by ear or from an actual score?

Thanks so much if you have time to answer this!
Dave


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 3, 2011)

mikebarry @ Sat Dec 03 said:


> Best advice I have is to piano reduce the John Williams signature editions this is how I tought my self to write and orchestrate. Every day I was at the library doing this for about 2 years.



Great advice, Mike. That was at USC, correct?

(Go Bruins!)


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## Nostradamus (Dec 4, 2011)

mikebarry @ Sat Dec 03 said:


> Best advice I have is to piano reduce the John Williams signature editions this is how I tought my self to write and orchestrate. Every day I was at the library doing this for about 2 years.



Star Wars - Suite for Orchestra 675 USD :shock:


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## musicpete (Dec 4, 2011)

You don't need to version with all parts. Just the conductor's score is considerably cheaper! You can count on 40-60US$ per score.


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## Johnny42 (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi Dave,

You are correct in regards to the solo piano reduction. My suggestion is to do it from the score, but you must know the piece. If you are unsure about the process, you can check Liszt transcriptions of Beethoven's symphonies or his Wagner's opera piano reduction. www.alexanderpublishing.com has all the John Williams scores. I believe the Star Wars conductor's score is about $75 US. Score reading at the piano is another great way of learning orchestration too. Hope this helps.

John


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## DocMidi657 (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks John!
Dave


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## mikebarry (Dec 4, 2011)

Here is an example:

I literally did hundreds of pages like this. I never took a single composition lesson - since I was a double major in business and piano I didn't have time. I only started composing my junior year of college.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/ ... /photo.jpg


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## DocMidi657 (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks Mike!
Dave


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## JJP (Dec 4, 2011)

Doing piano reductions or copying out parts is considered essential to learning orchestration.

In spite of the incredible emphasis on John Williams on this board, most good orchestrators do study classical scores. That teaches you how to create sounds and colors without having to rely on mixing to balance and gives you a more diversified basic education. Once you learn those basics, the other tricks come pretty easily. FYI: I think the JW Signature scores are edited and prepared for live performance.

Many orchestrators also have a jazz background, which is very useful given the pop influences in much film writing. John Williams himself had a classical training and also worked as a jazz pianist, so you're in good company following this route.

o=? Just to be clear, I'm not knocking studying Williams' scores. It's just that most of the orchestrators I know are pretty well versed in other repertoire because that was where they learned the basics of their craft.


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## handz (Dec 4, 2011)

Im not any good in score reading so I usually found some neat midi files open at sequencer and learn from this - you can find really GREAT midi files of JW on the net - fully orchestrated in separated tracks and usually also piano reductions. Probably not so fancy as a true full score but it helps.


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## Johnny42 (Dec 4, 2011)

You're welcome Dave. You got some great advice from Mike and JJP.


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## Kralc (Dec 4, 2011)

Really great thread, definitely going to study some JW, but as for classical scores, what would you recommend starting out with?

Also does anyone know where I can find manuscript like that one Mike has pictured? I've searched google and some sheet music stores but can't find much.


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## bryla (Dec 5, 2011)

I buy manuscript paper in a book store.

I myself started out with The Planets, which I now recognize was a bit of a mouthful as a first score, but I spent a year just looking at it. Just pick up a cd on the library of something that sounds interesting, then if you like it, go to the same library and ask for the score.


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## Kralc (Dec 5, 2011)

I would go to the library, but the libraries I have around me are severely lacking in any musical content, aside from CD's or DVD's.

Honestly all the musical products over here are unavailable, or seriously overpriced. There are some small mom & pop type stores that have good stuff, still a bit expensive though, but they're so out of the way, they go out of business pretty fast.

Thanks for the reply, I'll try and find some pieces to buy.


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## dedersen (Dec 5, 2011)

I think you can get the score for The Planets quite cheaply from Amazon.


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## vrocko (Dec 5, 2011)

Yes you can I just ordered it for a little over ten dollars from amazon.


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## Kralc (Dec 5, 2011)

That's why I love America, 
Thanks will check it out.


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## bryla (Dec 5, 2011)

Amazon is easy - libraries just give you the option to check it out, before you buy. Ask your librarians if they can get you scores from other libraries.


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## Johnny42 (Dec 5, 2011)

You should check out Bruckner's symphonies #4 and 7, Wagner's operas, Mahler 9, Mussorgsky pictures at an exhibition (orchestrated by Ravel), Ravel's Daphnis and Chloe. The dover edition of these scores are pretty inexpensive.


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## JimmyPoppa (Dec 5, 2011)

Hi Guys,

Another helpful possibility might be to look at pieces which were originally written for piano and later orchestrated. Perhaps the most famous of these is Pictures At An Exhibition. This was written as a Piano solo work by Mussorgsky. There are _several different orchestrations_ of it including one by Stokowsky and, of course, the one by Ravel. I'm pretty sure that recordings and scores of these versions are easily available (here in the U.S.). With a bit of effort, you could have the original piano manuscript and recording as well as these orchestrated versions to compare. I'm not sure how much this will help with your original post about Hollywood string writing but it could be an excellent study in general orchestration. 

Here is a link to a recording with 15(!!!) different orchestrations of various movements from Pictures...: http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/pages/prod ... kie_test=1

Also, many composers, intending a piece for orchestra, first write the work for piano, then orchestrate them. Some of those piano versions are available as well.

One easy, relatively inexpensive example of this is Peter Alexander's book, How Ravel Orchestrated Mother Goose; http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Depa ... Suite.aspx. I have this (it came with a CD included) and the score is laid out with the original piano version at the bottom and the rest of the score above it (I think I've seen versions of Pictures... like this as well). This way you see, exactly what was done. Peter has his own method of how to examine an orchestra score which he includes. You can use his and/or add your own.

There's really quite a lot of this available, including some for string orchestra only, as well as other instrumental combinations, if you dig into it. Hope this helps.

Be Well,

Jimmy


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## Dave Connor (Dec 5, 2011)

I would study Haydn to start out when studying the Classical literature as to string writing. As someone said, it's relatively unchanged in film and that's certainly true in regards to fundamentals. You can see how vertical chord structures are formed, how linear ideas a realized and the weight of different string arrangements.

Beyond the Classical composers you get a more romantic language and more divisi (multiple string parts within a section such as 2nd vlns, violas or cellos etc.,) such as in Brahms and Tchaikovsky. I think diving into scores with lots of divisi is a bit much at first. It's better understood as a widening or more dense realization of basic 4 part string writing.

Aaron Copland's writing and orchestration (he did score some Hollywood films) was taken up by the Hollywood guys very early and remains to this day. John Williams, Alan Silvestri, Thomas Newman and Randy Newman all show a healthy influence there. Vaughan Williams and William Walton also much copied by Hollywood.


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## bdr (Dec 5, 2011)

You want scores? You want free?

http://imslp.org/wiki/


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