# Review: Synchron Percussion III by Vienna Symphonic Library



## donbodin (Oct 31, 2021)

This collection of pitched & non-pitched percussion instruments is a fitting final part of what has become a colossal Synchron collection. Contributor Pete Checkley reviews Synchron Percussion III by Vienna Symphonic Library 



Synchron Percussion III is available from Vienna Symphonic Library - https://bit.ly/3pSr1sN


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## Cory Pelizzari (Oct 31, 2021)

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm vehemently against hiding the marimba and other essentials behind separate full priced packages. I'll never buy Synchron Percussion as long as that's the case.


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## Zanshin (Nov 1, 2021)

The Marimba is in Mallets III:





MALLETS III - Vienna Symphonic Library


Synchron Mallets III is part of the Synchron Percussion III Collection and includes a marimba and temple blocks.




www.vsl.co.at





I feel like how they separated out the packages is pretty reasonable.


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## Evans (Nov 1, 2021)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> I don't know about anyone else, but I'm vehemently against hiding the marimba and other essentials behind separate full priced packages. I'll never buy Synchron Percussion as long as that's the case.


I wouldn't call it "hiding," since the Content tab for each product shows what instruments are available and with what techniques/mallets/etc. It can be _annoying _to figure out what selections of bundles or individual products makes for the best price-for-the-content package, but the information is there.

Sometimes, I think it actually works out in quite a consumer-friendly way. Someone can dip their toes into VSL's extensive timpani recordings without great cost, either by going for Timpani 1 or 2 or 3, or even a BBO product.

It's better to me than CinePerc, which is basically, "You like this bass drum and the snares? Well, you better be prepared to spend about $800."


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## Paul Jelfs (Nov 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> I wouldn't call it "hiding," since the Content tab for each product shows what instruments are available and with what techniques/mallets/etc. It can be _annoying _to figure out what selections of bundles or individual products makes for the best price-for-the-content package, but the information is there.
> 
> Sometimes, I think it actually works out in quite a consumer-friendly way. Someone can dip their toes into VSL's extensive timpani recordings without great cost, either by going for Timpani 1 or 2 or 3, or even a BBO product.
> 
> It's better to me than CinePerc, which is basically, "You like this bass drum and the snares? Well, you better be prepared to spend about $800."


I think what Cory is getting at, and I tend to agree, is to get access to all the traditional mallets, you are looking at spending nearly 2000 dollars across the 3 collections - if you want the FULL Mics, like a lot of professionals tend to want. That is a huge amount of money when you consider the competition - I have no doubt each collection has plenty of unique content to justify its price, but if you want a full orchestral section at the Synchron Stage, it will cost. 

To further complicate things, or perhaps as an aside to my own argument, you can of course buy the mallets, and most of the other Percussion separately ; However that also adds to the confusion. 

Perhaps splitting the collection this way - Pitched, Non Pitched and Specials would of been a better way of doing it. 

I DO think more people would be miffed if it were the strings - And they did not include the Violas in the main collection :D !!


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## Evans (Nov 1, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> to get access to all the traditional mallets, you are looking at spending nearly 2000 dollars





Paul Jelfs said:


> you can of course buy the mallets, and most of the other Percussion separately


I appreciate that you also say the following in regard to that second quote:


Paul Jelfs said:


> perhaps as an aside to my own argument


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## Paul Jelfs (Nov 1, 2021)

I should , in fairness to VSL, that I don't think for a second they have done it out of greed- Or otherwise why let you buy the individual mallets etc? 

I DO think that could potential harm sales as most people just want a collection with everything they expect in it . If you have to go buying extra collections, or even individual instruments, to get parity with other manufactures, even if it works out cheaper all together, the buyer is more likely to feel "Cheated" than EVEN having paid more and got it all in one collection (If that makes sense!)


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## gst98 (Nov 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> I wouldn't call it "hiding," since the Content tab for each product shows what instruments are available and with what techniques/mallets/etc. It can be _annoying _to figure out what selections of bundles or individual products makes for the best price-for-the-content package, but the information is there.
> 
> Sometimes, I think it actually works out in quite a consumer-friendly way. Someone can dip their toes into VSL's extensive timpani recordings without great cost, either by going for Timpani 1 or 2 or 3, or even a BBO product.
> 
> It's better to me than CinePerc, which is basically, "You like this bass drum and the snares? Well, you better be prepared to spend about $800."


I mean it's nice they're giving the option, but $157 for a marimba is hard to swallow considering cinesamples huge sales, even after the recent price increase. It's the same price as true strike!

Just checked and all three mallet collections are more than Cineperc


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## Paul Jelfs (Nov 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> I appreciate that you also say the following in regard to that second quote:


Evans I love your Sig picture, but mentally I can't help but always want to nudge it up or down a ledger, even if it is perfectly legit as it is !


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## Evans (Nov 1, 2021)

gst98 said:


> I mean it's nice they're giving the option, but $157 for a marimba is hard to swallow considering cinesamples huge sales, even after the recent price increase. It's the same price as true strike!
> 
> Just checked and all three mallet collections are more than Cineperc


That's for the Full edition, which I'd argue few people actually need. I actually dislike the frequent push on those extra mics.

If CinePerc (which I really like) is the main competition, the Standard edition for Synchron Mallets III (currently at ~$87 USD) with its four mic options is a more reasonable comparison. And it gets you those Blocks, I suppose.

I don't recall how many octaves, dynamic layers, RRs, and articulations CinePerc has for their marimba (fuzzy memory tells me four octaves with hard mallets, soft mallets, and rolls), but the Synchron version (which I don't have) looks pretty extensive. VSL's quality control is also far, far higher than what Cinesamples brings (as a happy owner of CinePerc, CinePiano, and much of CineBrass).


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## FireGS (Nov 1, 2021)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> I don't know about anyone else, but I'm vehemently against hiding the marimba and other essentials behind separate full priced packages. I'll never buy Synchron Percussion as long as that's the case.


Wot?






MALLETS III - Vienna Symphonic Library


Synchron Mallets III is part of the Synchron Percussion III Collection and includes a marimba and temple blocks.




www.vsl.co.at





€135


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## gst98 (Nov 1, 2021)

Evans said:


> That's for the Full edition, which I'd argue few people actually need. I actually dislike the frequent push on those extra mics.
> 
> If CinePerc (which I really like) is the main competition, the Standard edition for Synchron Mallets III (currently at ~$87 USD) with its four mic options is a more reasonable comparison. And it gets you those Blocks, I suppose.
> 
> I don't recall how many octaves, dynamic layers, RRs, and articulations CinePerc has for their marimba (fuzzy memory tells me four octaves with hard mallets, soft mallets, and rolls), but the Synchron version (which I don't have) looks pretty extensive. VSL's quality control is also far, far higher than what Cinesamples brings (as a happy owner of CinePerc, CinePiano, and much of CineBrass).


I have SSP and find it sound a bit weird without the extra mics. Tbf I think it sounds a different kind of weird even with the extra mics but that's unrelated... Cineperc has all those mics just not given out individually, so I personally think you have to compare it to the full. Even more so with percussion. 

I wasn't doubting that they've gone to more depth than anyone else (although not that CP is lacking depth), but OT charge $99 for 12 trombone players who had to record legatos. Personally I can't see how recording the mallets took more than recording all of Cineperc. It just stood out as an anomaly as the rest of the Synchron line has been fairly competitively priced. Maybe I think I am more confused why there isn't a stripped-down version of Synchron Perc that excludes all the weird articulations like timpani pitch bends that the majority won't use. oh well


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## FireGS (Nov 1, 2021)

gst98 said:


> Maybe I think I am more confused why there isn't a stripped-down version of Synchron Perc that excludes all the weird articulations like timpani pitch bends that the majority won't use. oh well


Because that's not how the entire Synchron library line is done. Not sure why they'd start now.


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## gst98 (Nov 1, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Because that's not how the entire Synchron library line is done. Not sure why they'd start now.


Because no other section costs 2k? and unlike the other sections which lack many dynamics and RR this has a wealth of them. By that logic they should have kept the pricing in line with the other sections then. Besides, they literally made a second-string library to answer the need for reduced articulations and depth _and_ they have BBO so they pretty much already do it that way.


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## FireGS (Nov 1, 2021)

gst98 said:


> Because no other section costs 2k? and unlike the other sections which lack many dynamics and RR this has a wealth of them. By that logic they should have kept the pricing in line with the other sections then. Besides, they literally made a second-string library to answer the need for reduced articulations and depth _and_ they have BBO so they pretty much already do it that way.


Silly logic. If that's the logic, then SSP, SS1, Elite, and String FX should all have been one section and is therefore WAYYYY too expensive.

Oh wait, it is the same price.


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## gst98 (Nov 1, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Silly logic. If that's the logic, then SSP, SS1, Elite, and String FX should all have been one section and is therefore WAYYYY too expensive.
> 
> Oh wait, it is the same price.


What logic? I didn’t say anything about that.


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## FireGS (Nov 1, 2021)

gst98 said:


> What logic? I didn’t say anything about that.


orly?


gst98 said:


> Because no other section costs 2k?





gst98 said:


> By that logic





gst98 said:


> they should have kept the pricing in line with the other sections then.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 1, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Wot?


I guess what I'm saying is that it's standard for nearly every orchestral percussion library to include the marimba, vibraphone, temple blocks, cowbells, bongos, timbales and more than one snare in one single package. 495 Euro ain't peanuts - it's nearly the price of Berlin Percussion and CinePerc, but without those instruments I mentioned and with less mics.

To have all those standard instruments you need to purchase Mallets III, Drums III, Mallets II and Orchestral III which brings the price up to 875 Euro. At that point it'd be easy to think, well I may as well just go the whole hog. Then you're paying double the price of the base library just for those additions that *maybe* should have been in the base product. By then you've got the most expensive orchestral percussion library on the market - and that's just with the primary mics!

There's no way this wasn't thought through carefully from a marketing perspective, because it is by marketing standards, a smart move. I am absolutely not buying though, but that's just the opinion of a low income musician so take it with a grain of salt.


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## gst98 (Nov 1, 2021)

FireGS said:


> orly?


Yeah, I think you should read more carefully. And please don’t splice my quotes from two unrelated points to misrepresent what I said. One was about _you_ saying they should combine SSP, SS1, FX and Elite together - which again, I never said _anything_ about. But I think you're just not reading anything I say and you randomly making things up, or so it seems...

The other was me doubting the way that you said the entire Synchron line is done a certain way and saying why would it change now. I was literally doubting the logic _you_ were asserting. There's not a lot I can do if you take an exaggerated ironic statement literally

If you do actually want to answer the question: there's not much consistency to the organisation Synchron lineup, so when one section costs 3-4 times the others, why is there _not_ room for a reduced articulation set? Seeing as it's already broken up that way for the strings, and sort of is for the brass with being able to buy the BBO sections separately.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 1, 2021)

gst98 said:


> Yeah, I think you should read more carefully. And please don’t splice my quotes from two unrelated points to misrepresent what I said. One was about _you_ saying they should combine SSP, SS1, FX and Elite together - which again, I never said _anything_ about. But I think you're just not reading anything I say and you randomly making things up, or so it seems...
> 
> The other was me doubting the way that you said the entire Synchron line is done a certain way and saying why would it change now. I was literally doubting the logic _you_ were asserting. There's not a lot I can do if you take an exaggerated ironic statement literally
> 
> If you do actually want to answer the question: there's not much consistency to the organisation Synchron lineup, so when one section costs 3-4 times the others, why is there _not_ room for a reduced articulation set? Seeing as it's already broken up that way for the strings, and sort of is for the brass with being able to buy the BBO sections separately.


I wouldn't fret too much over FireGS. He's a bit spicy but he's a decent guy.


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## Ben (Nov 1, 2021)

gst98 said:


> why is there _not_ room for a reduced articulation set?


Seems to me you have missed the release of our BBO series. I highly recommend to check it out. And if you are ready for the full packe you will even get a decent upgrade discount.


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## Ben (Nov 1, 2021)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> I guess what I'm saying is that it's standard for nearly every orchestral percussion library to include the marimba, vibraphone, temple blocks, cowbells, bongos, timbales and more than one snare in one single package. 495 Euro ain't peanuts - it's nearly the price of Berlin Percussion and CinePerc, but without those instruments I mentioned and with less mics.


Feel free to point me to any percussion library out there that is cheaper AND on the same level of detail regarding
- mic positions
- available instruments
- mallet variations
- playing techniques
- quality and consistency. 

Creating such a library with this amount of content and consistency between all included instruments is not only very expensive, but also very time consuming and literally took us years to record and edit.
I'm not saying that this is a cheap library, but it is definitely worth the price tag.



Cory Pelizzari said:


> There's no way this wasn't thought through carefully from a marketing perspective, because it is by marketing standards, a smart move.


No, it wasn't. Percussion I was released years ago at this point, Percussion III got finished just this year.


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## Zanshin (Nov 1, 2021)

Ben said:


> Seems to me you have missed the release of our BBO series. I highly recommend to check it out. And if you are ready for the full packe you will even get a decent upgrade discount.


I think gst98 might be being pedantic at this point but for those others reading...

BBO Dorado, Phoenix, Quasar: timpani, glock, vibra, xylo, bells, gongs, and single hits for bass drum, concert toms, snare, taikos, piatti, tam-tams, and ensembles (with individual mics) for monster drums, bass drums, toms, etc, etc. 92 gigs of well recorded percussion with attention to detail. Out the door from Best Service (for example) for $195.00 while it's currently on sale.

I've been using this as my main percussion set and it's been fantastic. I will be upgrading to the standard Synchron Percussion bundle because you actually can't have too much of a good thing


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## Ben (Nov 1, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I think gst98 might being pedantic at this point but for those others reading...
> 
> BBO Dorado, Phoenix, Quasar: timpani, glock, vibra, xylo, bells, gongs, and single hits for bass drum, concert toms, snare, taikos, piatti, tam-tams, and ensembles (with individual mics) for monster drums, bass drums, toms, etc, etc. 92 gigs of well recorded percussion with attention to detail. Out the door from Best Service (for example) for $195.00 while it's currently on sale.
> 
> I've been using this as my main percussion set and it's been fantastic. I will be upgrading to the standard Synchron Percussion bundle because you actually can't have too much of a good thing


And with the exception of limited amount of instruments and articulations, you will get the same content with all velocity layers and all mics from the Full Library!


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 1, 2021)

Ben said:


> Feel free to point me to any percussion library out there that is cheaper AND on the same level of detail regarding
> - mic positions
> - available instruments
> - mallet variations
> ...


With respect, I know you think your library is simply the best, but whether or not it's worth the price tag is for me as a customer to decide, not the company who is selling it to me. I understand it's time consuming, but it was also a hard job for other sample devs to make their products (CinePerc, True Strike etc) so claiming your library is objectively superior to theirs in both cost efficiency, sound and depth is a little underhanded in my humble opinion.

The library's standard percussion (the instruments I mentioned before) are still kept separate so either it's a smart marketing move or it's an oversight that's inconvenient to the customer. It can't be both.


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## FireGS (Nov 1, 2021)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> I wouldn't fret too much over FireGS. He's a bit spicy but he's a decent guy.


U WOT M8


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## Ben (Nov 1, 2021)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> With respect, I know you think your library is simply the best, but whether or not it's worth the price tag is for me as a customer to decide, not the company who is selling it to me. I understand it's time consuming, but it was also a hard job for other sample devs to make their products (CinePerc, True Strike etc) so claiming your library is objectively superior to theirs in both cost efficiency, sound and depth is a little underhanded in my humble opinion.



I own a lot of libraries from other devs, still, I have no intension comparing our libraries against their libraries in terms of what is "best" or "superior". I have never done that publicly since I started at VSL, and I never will as long as I work in this industry.

But reading these complains about the price point in comparison to other libraries, without taking into account the differences in regarding the content amount you get, leaves me puzzled.
If you buy a canister with 10 litres of milk you also have to pay more than for just a 1 litre pack of milk...


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## Ben (Nov 1, 2021)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> whether or not it's worth the price tag is for me as a customer to decide, not the company who is selling it to me.


Btw, I'm a software dev, not a marketing guy, and I also don't work in our marketing or sales departments.
I think I'm also allowed to express my opinion, just as you are 



Cory Pelizzari said:


> The library's standard percussion (the instruments I mentioned before) are still kept separate so either it's a smart marketing move or it's an oversight that's inconvenient to the customer. It can't be both.


Messing with the structure of an existing library is the worst thing you can do, especially if you sell such an amount of libraries and software.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 1, 2021)

Ben said:


> Btw, I'm a software dev, not a marketing guy, and I also don't work in our marketing or sales departments.
> I think I'm also allowed to express my opinion, just as you are


Yeah no hard feelings man, I get it. It's just not the wisest thing for people who belong to a sample company to criticise criticisms of their library as it can come off as disingenuous (there have been certain devs in the past who reply in threads trying to squash any negative comments about their libraries).

I know it comes from a good place though and you genuinely believe in the work you put in.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 1, 2021)

FireGS said:


> U WOT M8


Swiggity swooty.


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## ptram (Nov 2, 2021)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> claiming your library is objectively superior to theirs in both cost efficiency, sound and depth is a little underhanded in my humble opinion.


Comparing two libraries can easily be made objective, by checking the individual components (number of instruments, techniques, depth of sampling).

An easy indicator is the size: CinePerc is 100 GB, whereas Synchron Percussion is more than 1.1 TB of samples. There should be some difference.

And then, there is the player, that can be the usual Kontakt (good or not for the task), or a dedicated player making the user experience better.

I don't see any problem in thinking that a library can have a better performance/cost ratio, if it fits one's needed. But this doesn't dissolve the objective differences.

Paolo


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 2, 2021)

ptram said:


> Comparing two libraries can easily be made objective, by checking the individual components (number of instruments, techniques, depth of sampling).
> 
> An easy indicator is the size: CinePerc is 100 GB, whereas Synchron Percussion is more than 1.1 TB of samples. There should be some difference.
> 
> ...


That's looking at it from a purely technical specification side. I'm sure there's plenty of composers who have used a "technically" inferior library on their finished product and not thought years later "I need to go back and re-record that with Synchron Percussion". That's where the subjectivity in cost efficiency/sound lies. For example, every single good orchestral percussion library has a sound that the other does not have, making it more or less desirable regardless of the cost. There will be cases where in a mix, Synchron may or may not make the job easier as with any other library. A group of composers may absolutely want the Teldex sound or the AIR Studios sound. That's the crunch. Then, there's the question - "Do I need over a terabyte taking up space on my drive for this one library?" and also "Do I need this at all when something half the price will do the job?".

While you are correct in that there are objective technical differences, the practical and musical differences make Synchron "another choice", not the "objectively best choice", regardless of how big or comprehensive the library is. So pricing then becomes more of a measurement of how much the content is worth from a technical standpoint - like you said - but it cannot guarantee satisfaction.

What I'm taking a long time to say is, I bought Spitfire Chamber Strings, Hollywood Strings and Cinematic Studio Strings a long time ago. Objectively, both Chamber Strings and Hollywood strings have more content and more articulations. Practically however, I've relied on Cinematic Studio Strings for my work 3 out of 4 times - not because Cinematic Studio Strings is objectively better, but because it was the most appropriate and consistent for the task. I haven't relied enough on expanded playing techniques to justify the extra cost. I've found the same when comparing True Strike to Berlin Percussion, Hollywood Orchestral Percussion and Spitfire's Percussion. In other words I would recommend a library based on its usefulness in practice rather than it's technical specifications.

If in the specific case that someone needs a deeper articulation set for their percussion, then I would admittedly recommend Synchron Percussion over the others.

I'm really sorry if I took way too long to get that across, as I have a very non linear mind.


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## gst98 (Nov 2, 2021)

Ben said:


> Seems to me you have missed the release of our BBO series. I highly recommend to check it out. And if you are ready for the full packe you will even get a decent upgrade discount.


I am aware of BBO, tbf I did mention it already a couple of times. But BBO is mostly aimed towards to larger ensemble and epic side, is it not? There is Pheonix and Quasar, but they are _super_ reduced set of articulations. I was talking about a still-comprehensive library (like your competitors) but without the weird esoteric articulations that many don't need. Like the way Synchron String FX came separately. Surely there is a space between €120 and €1950 for traditional VSL perc?




Ben said:


> But reading these complains about the price point in comparison to other libraries, without taking into account the differences in regarding the content amount you get, leaves me puzzled.
> If you buy a canister with 10 litres of milk you also have to pay more than for just a 1 litre pack of milk...





gst98 said:


> I wasn't doubting that they've gone to more depth than anyone else (although not that CP is lacking depth), but OT charge $99 for 12 trombone players who had to record legatos. Personally I can't see how recording the mallets took more than recording all of Cineperc.


As I said, I'm not denying you sampled more than others, but at the end of the day, there is a price tag to pay for it. You've made the Rolls Royce of perc libraries, and I'm sure you can justify the price - but calling a Rolls Royce expensive is hardly an unexpected or controversial criticism, especially not in a non-commercial review thread.


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## gst98 (Nov 2, 2021)

ptram said:


> Comparing two libraries can easily be made objective, by checking the individual components (number of instruments, techniques, depth of sampling).
> 
> An easy indicator is the size: CinePerc is 100 GB, whereas Synchron Percussion is more than 1.1 TB of samples. There should be some difference.
> 
> ...


Comparing Library size does nothing more than tell you the depth of sampling and the number of mic signals. What is better is so subjective. Despite owning more deeply sampled timpani, I still almost always use the old EWQL timp because it just sits in the mix the way I like it to. I have tons of deeply sampled snares that for whatever reason can sound really artificial, and I usually run back to true strike. I think it's almost pointless trying to say one is superior over the other.

And everyone goes on about the player (there are many things I love about it) but it's constant crashes for me with deactivated tracks in logic so I had to stop using SSP. I also never got VEP to run without crash due to large thread counts it creates, and VSL support was equally baffled. And can you use 1.1TB of samples without comprehensive sample purging? How big is the RAM hit with many of these instruments?


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## Ben (Nov 2, 2021)

gst98 said:


> How big is the RAM hit with many of these instruments?


Surprisingly small, because of our sample streaming technology with native (NVMe) SSD support.
The Synchron Pianos are the most demanding instruments, and it does not even need 1GB of RAM on my system (of course this is depending on your setup and the amount of loaded mics).


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## bvaughn0402 (Nov 2, 2021)

Sometimes I’m surprised that companies stick it out here … I’m glad they do and openly engage with us. This isn’t the easiest place to engage with customers and potential customers. I’m not sure the ROE. But I’m very thankful they do.


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## Evans (Nov 2, 2021)

gst98 said:


> But BBO is mostly aimed towards to larger ensemble and epic side, is it not?


I think it's a poorly named series, since it does "soft" really well. Outside of the phrases and riffs (which I do not have), I think it's actually better at subdued than bombastic.


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