# An instrument repair shop lost my violin



## Greg (Oct 23, 2015)

Pity party thread!

The shop manager told me to my face that he lost it. Has anyone had to deal with something like this before? It has never been appraised and had no serial but it was very old and could have been a Roth since that was the only marking (on the case).

I don't even know what to do next? Advice would be appreciated, thanks!


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## Hannes_F (Oct 23, 2015)

Ouch. 
- Was it insured (probably not)? 
- Do you have a receipt from the worksshop?
I think they are liable in any case, the question is how high.

- Does any buyer's receipt exist?
- Do you have any photo?

The Roth workshop has its website here
http://www.roth-violins.de
and their price list here
http://www.roth-violins.de/preisliste.pdf

Here are examples of fake Roth violins:
http://www.roth-violins.de/Faelschungen.htm

They say they have an archive going back to 1924. If you need any help with translation, let me know.


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## synthpunk (Oct 23, 2015)

Hire a lawyer, IZ lost my Radar once and then sent me the wrong one back (partially stripped out btw). High pressure lawyer made them fix it after lots of bullshit. There usually told by there counsel to start low on offers on how to fix.


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## Greg (Oct 23, 2015)

I don't have any insurance or pictures since I purchased it a week before handing it over for repair. Paid with cash at an estate sale. The shop did give me a receipt and labeled it as a Roth. My best guess from internet photos was a 1930s - 40s Roth. It could have been a knock off of course, I don't really know much about identifying them. But it was definitely well made and very old.


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## chillbot (Oct 23, 2015)

How did he "lose" it?? Maybe it's worth a bunch of money and he just said he lost it but really just wants to keep it? Go to the police... or threaten to? I dunno... sounds fishy. Although in my scenario I would expect him to at least reimburse you for a fraction of what it's worth since he'll avoid making waves and come out ahead anyway. Maybe I'm too much the pessimist.


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## Wes Antczak (Oct 23, 2015)

Unfortunately, I think chillbot is right. Very sorry to hear about what happened.


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## Hannes_F (Oct 23, 2015)

OK. If it was a Roth from 1930-40 then in terms of violins one would not speak about "very old" usually. 1715 would be very old  A violin of 80 years is just getting mature.

Also, compared to really old violins a 1930-40 Roth is quite moderate in price with a value between 2000 and 5000 USD (roughly). If it is a quality workshop with an old-established name (especially if it is a string workshop, I mean for string instruments only) they would be stupid to risk it for that amount of money.

But if it is a no-name workshop (like some workshops connected with universal music shops) _and _you told them how much you paid _and _it was way lower than USD 2000 then it is more likely to be on purpose. It could really be then that somebody inexperienced googled it and tries to trick you with just paying what you paid in the auction, hoping to sell it for more after a while without thinking about the consequences. If there are signs for that I would head to the police.

Did the manager tell you to come back in two days because they want to search again? Or did he say it is definitely gone? In this case, did he make an offer?


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## SymphonicSamples (Oct 23, 2015)

Hey Greg, I'm sorry to hear about this , and even reading it makes me annoyed . Hannes is on the money , my Violin dates to around the 1780's so it has some age on it but as Hannes said 1715 would be rather old , certainly not 1920-40's . Did the shop give you any response other than "We lost it sorry" , given it was in their care and as a repairer of instruments they have to have some liability with insurance to cover such things . They have a responsibility to address this with you if you've engaged in a service with them .


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## muk (Oct 24, 2015)

Are we missing a bit of context here? I can not believe that a shop manager would simply tell a customer "We lost your violin, now go away". They should be very hard at work to try to retrieve it. I can only think of two possibilites how a violin can get lost in the shop: 1. they gave it to the wrong customer. In that case they should be able to retrieve it. 2. somebody (a member of the staff or a customer) took it with them. In that case it's the shop who should call the police, as this is theft. In any event, just telling the customer that their instrument is lost and do nothing about sounds very fishy indeed. If that really is the case here I would contact the police.


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## JonFairhurst (Oct 26, 2015)

My violin teacher (and world class performer) studied and taught at the Tchaikovsky Conservatory in Moscow. There, she had access to amazing, truly old violins. She told me that they often needed maintenance and took a lot of work to keep in top condition. And though many had prestigious histories, they didn't necessarily sound great. Her current violin is from the 1930s, cost about $3,500, and sounds totally amazing - at least in her hands. During our community orchestra rehearsals, we're sitting there playing our lines thinly, when she says, "please use this technique...", lifts her violin, and fills the hall with an amazing resonance.

So, yeah, for a big price tag, look to the 18th century. But for a great instrument, the 20th century can apparently have the edge.

All that said, I hope this lost violin is soon found. The story reminds us to take stock of what we have before handing it to anybody.


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## Hannes_F (Oct 27, 2015)

@ Jon: Right so. I dearly dearly love my 1920 [or so] Antoniazzi - to me she has the ideal violin sound. It is a personality kind of, that is why I refer to her as 'she'. More expensive than what has been mentioned here though. Nevertheless one would refer to a 'New-italian violin' or "modern italian violin' - go figure.

Any news on this, Greg?


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## JonFairhurst (Oct 28, 2015)

I purchased my violin early this year. It's a 21st Century Czech violin labeled "Mikhail Vitacek". In other words, it was made in China.  It's a blemished version of this that was available at a nice discount:
http://www.kennedyviolins.com/inventory/violin-inventory/mikhail-vitacek-violin-outfit/

What amazed me about the experience is how unique the violin market is. It's as unique as house or car shopping. It's nothing like Guitar Center or even like the small guitar shops of the past where the sticker price was just a suggestion.

Kennedy Violins is one of the top online shops and happens to be local for me. I was able to try out numerous instruments. After finding a couple of candidates, they let me take them home for a week. Later, I tried more and traded my least favorite for a different violin to take home. The Vitacek was the one that spoke to me, so that's what I bought. Hey, they'll even ship violins across the country for you to try out. Like I said, it's not Guitar Center.

Kennedy specs various violins of various styles and has them built in China. They do the final assembly and setup at their shop in the US. They have a model in each price range, starting from a very low price, so it's ideal for students. The coolest thing is that when you are ready to upgrade, you can trade in your instrument for a full-price credit. Try that at your local Kia dealership. They have higher-end violins too, but their focus is on the student and intermediate market.

I also visited a local high-end violin shop. They only had one sub-$1k violin model that came in three grades. It didn't compare to Kennedy's models, but then again, that's not the focus of the higher-end shop. Both locations had amazing service with private playing rooms, take-home policies, and trade in options. That trade in deal kind of makes you a customer for life if you want to buy an affordable instrument and upgrade as skills improve, so choose your shop wisely.

The challenges as a high-end customer are steep. The very old, rare and famous violins are like fine art. One has to beware fakes and prices can be set by the richest, most motivated person at an auction. Some very old violins might be barely playable and are museum pieces. Finding an instrument that has a fantastic sound at an affordable price can be difficult as the ego can be drawn to that next most expensive model - not to mention that setup and strings can have a huge effect. Maybe you dislike a given amazing violin only because it has weak strings or a misaligned sound post while you are drawn to a lesser instrument with a great setup.

The other challenge is that there are many small, custom makes. It's pretty easy to find the market price for a '53 Les Paul. But how do you know the value of a one-off violin from 1910?

All this makes the fate of the lost violin a tough challenge. What exactly was the model and year of the instrument? What was its value? Those can be hard to answer with the violin in hand. So how can one know the answer for a missing violin?

That brings me back to value of a good violin shop. Buy your instrument there and you get a receipt and somebody to stand behind the instrument. Have it serviced there and there's little risk that they'll think it's worth more than you do. Trade it in at the same shop and you won't get low-balled.

Then again, you might find a gem at an estate sale or craigslist posting. Note that you can also hire a violin consultant who will help you shop, evaluate, and price instruments. But that really requires trust. Choose your shop or consultant wisely.

Anyway, best of luck resolving the mystery of the lost violin. Please let us know how this unfolds...


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## Valérie_D (Oct 28, 2015)

No matter the value of your violon, I don't see, under any circumstances except maybe an employee stole it, that the owner of the shop could have lost it.


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## JonFairhurst (Oct 28, 2015)

There are two possibilities:
1) it was stolen, or
2) this:


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