# Dorico with Custom Kontakt templates



## dormusic (May 10, 2020)

Has anyone had any DEEP experience with Dorico 3 and making it work with a big custom Kontakt template? What playback features currently have bugs? Where have you struggled?
How do you host the samples? (Bidule? VEPro? DP? Rewire on either? Loopbe30?)
Up until now I've only tried working with Noteperformer on Dorico, adding custom techniques for Kontakt was both time consuming at best and most of the time buggy to say the least, but I want to give it another shot soon.


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## Paxman (Aug 16, 2020)

Hi,

I'm working with Dorico/Kontakt and Orchestral Tools. What is your question in detail?


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## ptram (Aug 16, 2020)

I've not found dramatic bugs in the expression maps department. I'm currently working with v3.5.10, and I would say it is more solid than ever.

One of the issues I found before the current version was that some heavy preset was late after selection. The new negative delay in the expression map should have solved it.

I've created expression maps for libraries running under both VSL players, Kontakt and other players, and they all seem to be working fine.

I use Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 as the host. I find on my Mac it consumes a lot less CPU than inserting the players directly in Dorico.

Paolo


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## Bollen (Aug 18, 2020)

dormusic said:


> Has anyone had any DEEP experience with Dorico 3 and making it work with a big custom Kontakt template? What playback features currently have bugs? Where have you struggled?
> How do you host the samples? (Bidule? VEPro? DP? Rewire on either? Loopbe30?)
> Up until now I've only tried working with Noteperformer on Dorico, adding custom techniques for Kontakt was both time consuming at best and most of the time buggy to say the least, but I want to give it another shot soon.


Oh! This is a really old post... I'm surprised I missed it. In case you still need this question answered, yes! I use huge orchestral templates, hosted in VE Pro, but I do all expression and keyswitches manually... Can't be bothered with Expression Maps, too complicated...


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## giwro (Aug 31, 2020)

Bollen said:


> Oh! This is a really old post... I'm surprised I missed it. In case you still need this question answered, yes! I use huge orchestral templates, hosted in VE Pro, but I do all expression and keyswitches manually... Can't be bothered with Expression Maps, too complicated...


Certainly, your mileage may vary.... I’ve not found the expression maps to be too much of a bother... lately I’ve been able to create a basic one, then edit and add as needed. Sometimes Dorico does bog down a bit when there’s a lot of instances of a plug-in, but overall it’s not too bad. And, do bear in mind in some cases I’m not running from a SSD, so I’m sure that doesn’t help!


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## Bollen (Aug 31, 2020)

giwro said:


> Certainly, your mileage may vary.... I’ve not found the expression maps to be too much of a bother... lately I’ve been able to create a basic one, then edit and add as needed. Sometimes Dorico does bog down a bit when there’s a lot of instances of a plug-in, but overall it’s not too bad. And, do bear in mind in some cases I’m not running from a SSD, so I’m sure that doesn’t help!


For me it's more of a musical issue. I use libraries that have vast amount of patches and in most cases the written music requires many different types of articulations that would otherwise not be written. I see it like the role of the conductor during rehearsal, the score might have no articulation markings for a specific passage, but the conductor would instruct the players to play a particular set of notes more "detaché" and lean on others harder, etc. I just don't see how expression maps really help. However, I have been considering making a basic one that controls basic things like dynamics and/or pizzicato/bowed, etc.

You should definitely get an SSD, they're incredibly cheap these days and it will change your life! If you buy the same size as your current one you can copy the image and replace the old one without any more faff...


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## giwro (Aug 31, 2020)

Bollen said:


> For me it's more of a musical issue. I use libraries that have vast amount of patches and in most cases the written music requires many different types of articulations that would otherwise not be written. I see it like the role of the conductor during rehearsal, the score might have no articulation markings for a specific passage, but the conductor would instruct the players to play a particular set of notes more "detaché" and lean on others harder, etc. I just don't see how expression maps really help. However, I have been considering making a basic one that controls basic things like dynamics and/or pizzicato/bowed, etc.
> 
> You should definitely get an SSD, they're incredibly cheap these days and it will change your life! If you buy the same size as your current one you can copy the image and replace the old one without any more faff...


I have the cache files for Hauptwerk on ssd (HW doesn’t stream from disc, requires the data be in RAM). I did put BBCSO Core on the SSD, and it does make an amazing difference.


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## ptram (Aug 31, 2020)

Bollen said:


> I use libraries that have vast amount of patches and in most cases the written music requires many different types of articulations that would otherwise not be written. ... I just don't see how expression maps really help.


What I do is to also create entries for patches with no equivalence in the standard notation vocabulary. If I have a "super scratching fff" patch, I’ll enter it as an Expression Map entry. I will then create what Dorico calls playing and playback techniques ending into this xmap entry.

These special playing techniques can be hidden from the final score, but still do their job in selecting all the patches. I find that they are like any other technique in a traditional score, only extended with the special techniques allowed by the sound libraries.

Paolo


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## Bollen (Sep 1, 2020)

giwro said:


> I have the cache files for Hauptwerk on ssd (HW doesn’t stream from disc, requires the data be in RAM). I did put BBCSO Core on the SSD, and it does make an amazing difference.


Nice, but I meant the OS and Dorico. My libraries all still run from old spinning HDs. They take a while to load but the computer starts up so fast and it's so snappy! 


ptram said:


> What I do is to also create entries for patches with no equivalence in the standard notation vocabulary. If I have a "super scratching fff" patch, I’ll enter it as an Expression Map entry. I will then create what Dorico calls playing and playback techniques ending into this xmap entry.
> 
> These special playing techniques can be hidden from the final score, but still do their job in selecting all the patches. I find that they are like any other technique in a traditional score, only extended with the special techniques allowed by the sound libraries.
> 
> Paolo


Yeah, that's the way I used to work in Sibelius, but it's incredibly inefficient if you have to do it almost every note. Personally for me it's disproportionately faster to duplicate the staff, lock rhythms, quickly input the keyswitches from my piano keyboard and then simply select all and move playback to -10 and hide staff. You can do vast passages in a matter of seconds like this... (If you know the keyswitches by heart that is...)


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