# UAD General Thoughts...



## Brobdingnagian (Jun 4, 2014)

Friends,

Been using Apogee I/O here with 2 12core 2010 MacPros, Logic 9, Pro Tools, VE Pro etc. The usual. Getting a lot of work done. Boxes are getting a little long in the tooth. 

Preparing to make the leap up to Logic X and a new MacPro.

Question - the UAD Apollo all seems tempting. Some of my colleagues here in town have switched over to this setup and are thrilled. Others say that I should stick it out with my array of misc plugs and Apogee boxes.

Just asking for a general consensus of people's experiences with UAD in a heavy schedule, day in/day out film/tv setting. 

Many thanks.

-B


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## Giant_Shadow (Jun 4, 2014)

Box has been flawless
Took the place of literally 7 boxes in my rig (A/D, D/A, Clock, Line input Mixer, Mic Pres, Master Out, plugin host)

clean mic & line pres
Very good clock
Exceptional Plugins and plugin host
Great customer service


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## Maestro77 (Jun 4, 2014)

I second this. So glad I made the jump to Apollo and UAD plugins. And I echo the customer service praise. Had to call twice for issues that were my own fault and both times spoke to extremely helpful and patient humans.


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## Stiltzkin (Jun 5, 2014)

Swapped over to UAD recently and will never look back - freed up my CPU while giving me far far better plugins than I used to have.

It's one of those 5% increases in quality that you can't place your finger on.

Can't recommend the swap enough


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## chimuelo (Jun 5, 2014)

Well if you want dedicated audio chips for audio processing that's the purpose of this, plus a big factor is, although I won a different DSP platform synths, FX and mixing, is the hands on real time parameter modulations that adds motion to music.
Static samples need some help in our biz, but then again some folks can do just fine running audio through a lifeless compressor/limiter or Reverb/time based plug in. 
But performing dynamically with dynamic plug ins meant to be modulated in real time, is the juice for me.
I am waiting for Apollo II with MADI, or TBolt II.
By years end I will have the Symbolic Sound Pacarana, the XITE-1 I already have owned for 5 years, and the new Apollo, all in a powerful little 4U where the PC is just 1U.
Hell I don't even need a CPU except for sample playback apps.

Guys looking to get a bigger faster PC/M<ac should just stop in and give UAD a listen, that will make decisions much easier and the solution is not expensive when you consider the development and support and decade of use you'll easily get.


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## gsilbers (Jun 5, 2014)

i have the uad card. 
even though it freeze up cpu, i get a lot of latency. more plugins more latency. so of course i only add them to the final stages of a project. 
is this resolved with the apollo? ?


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## Giant_Shadow (Jun 5, 2014)

I believe it is less with the Apollo, but is still noticeable unless you use the new UA Console utility. This allows you to use UA plugins with very little latency if you want record or monitor wet.

http://www.uaudio.com/blog/using-apollo-console-app/


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## Brobdingnagian (Jun 5, 2014)

Many thanks, friends.


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 5, 2014)

I'm not sure I understand the UA Console thing. When monitoring thru the console in realtime with plugins they should little to no latency, correct? Latency would occur while tracking and monitoring from the DAW with plugins as an insert but would it be just the normal latency incurred from the DAW's buffer size? Is there a way to monitor the output of the DAW through the console with plugins with no extra latency? 

Basically, is there a way to be playing/sequencing midi/samples and add mastering plugins to the output busses without adding any significant (crippling) latency? It would be nice to be able to play velocities and move CCs with the entire chain in from the start.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 5, 2014)

UAD = game changer


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## clarkus (Jun 5, 2014)

There is nearly a 2000. difference between theses two products. Which are we discussing? Or is there yet another offering?

Interesting that the Thunderbolt interface is the "cheap" one.


Universal Audio Apollo Twin DUO

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## Giant_Shadow (Jun 5, 2014)

You know Clarksus, sometimes it seems like your posts are trolling . His question is pretty plain to myself and others. If your not familiar with the unit or have not used why on earth would you comment ? If you hung on up pricing or like to troll your probably on the wrong board. G.S.


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## gaz (Jun 5, 2014)

UAD extended their free Thunderbolt adapter deal for the Apollo until the end of June. I nearly pulled the trigger on one last month but I don't really need that many inputs and the Apollo Twin DUO caught my eye. I would prefer at least a QUAD (or preferably OCTO). I have no evidence but I have a feeling (or arther hoping!) that a TB version of the Satellite will be appear soon. I'm going to wait and see what happens before I enter the market, which I will once the right box comes out for my needs.

-Gari


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## JohnG (Jun 5, 2014)

Giant_Shadow @ 5th June 2014 said:


> I believe it is less with the Apollo, but is still noticeable unless you use the new UA Console utility. This allows you to use UA plugins with very little latency if you want record or monitor wet.
> 
> http://www.uaudio.com/blog/using-apollo-console-app/



I have the same question as gsilbers -- Apollo sounds magic, really, if it can be inserted without latency so you can compose while having plugins active.

I emailed their sales support but kind of felt that either I couldn't explain my question clearly or just got the runaround.

I have this super-UAD card setup, with a ton of plugins on it. But as gsilbers said, it still induces (a lot) of latency, so I only use it after going to audio.

It sounds awesome but you really can't compose with much beyond a very simple EQ active or the latency is too distracting.


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## chimuelo (Jun 5, 2014)

And latency is the reason I have been holding off on UAD until they do the next Apollo.
I love DSP but can't justify adding latency to a real time DSP rig like Kyma X Pacarana or Sconiccore XITE-1.
Below is the latency I get using DSP FX and Modualr patches inside of Reaper.
In other words the latnecy is a hair below .07 msec. in standalone, at ASIO duplexxed I get 1.3msec./64 samples @ 96k in real time. 
This means my reverse looper can trigger Hendrix style reversed solos in realtime, but requires thinking a 1/4 note ahead.
I replaced my Oberheim Echoplex Pro years ago.
This is where UAD is heading from what I hear. If they don't they still have great products, but working alongside of Native in real time is the juice for me.


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## ThomasL (Jun 5, 2014)

JohnG @ 2014-06-06 said:


> It sounds awesome but you really can't compose with much beyond a very simple EQ active or the latency is too distracting.


When I want to record something (MIDI) in Logic I simply press the "Low Latency" button which momentarily disables all the "high latency" plugins, record my line and switch back again.

When recording audio I have some separate outboard stuff which I run a monitor signal through, for reverb and such. Some singers can't sing without some reverb in the monitor mix.

I'd like an Apollo but just can't justify the cost with my current setup. Sure, I can't track with UAD plugins running but it really doesn't matter for me. Right now that is


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## Giant_Shadow (Jun 5, 2014)

This is the guide I used.
http://www.uaudio.com/blog/optimizing-uad-logic-pro/


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## Stephen Baysted (Jun 6, 2014)

I've recently replaced my 3 x 2408s with an Apollo and indeed the various RME cards that fed them audio from the slaves. The difference in the quality of conversion is huge now; the mic pres are very transparent too and latency over FireWire (and LAN via VE pro) very good. 

Using the 'unison' pre amp plug ins (Neve 1073 etc), there's no discernible latency while recording voice for example. Tracking with other plug ins (EQ, compression etc) enabled in the console also has no discernible latency. The only decision you have to make is whether you just monitor through the effects or print them. 

The console app controls the operation of e unit; absolute piece of cake to use and is eminently logical. 

I understand that latency is even lower and bandwidth is a much higher over Thunderbolt (got the t bolt card free when I bought the Apollo).


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## vicontrolu (Jun 6, 2014)

UAD was far more convenient some years ago. We have a lot of cool sounding plugins today, at the same level of UAD´s. I had 2 UAD cards, loved them, sold them and didnt regret it. You can replace plugins by other cheaper native alternatives.

For me, at the end, the boost in quality didnt compensate for the drop on latency.


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## Brobdingnagian (Jun 6, 2014)

Thank you friends, all great info and experiences. Mr. Graham, Monsieur PDC, Giant Steps, Baystead - many thanks.

Vicontrolu - THIS is exactly what a handful of my other colleagues say. 

So there are definitely two camps. Both of them getting a lot of work done. 

It really is so cyclical...every few years, come up for air, time to assemble a new rig. Commit to something and then bury your head back into another few years of insanity...

Hence, going from multi 2010 MacPros and Apogee boxes to perhaps the slimmer and smaller form factor of a Cylinder and the UAD stuff.

In the end I might just pick up the UAD twin Duo and see how it feels on my laptop rig, before I fit out the rooms with full on Apollo setups.

-B


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 6, 2014)

JohnG @ Thu Jun 05 said:


> Giant_Shadow @ 5th June 2014 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe it is less with the Apollo, but is still noticeable unless you use the new UA Console utility. This allows you to use UA plugins with very little latency if you want record or monitor wet.
> ...



Yea, I still don't know if I'm asking the question correctly....?

If I insert their Mastering LImiter into the 2 buss (or string or drum buss for ex.) will it introduce a good amount of latency, too much for playing lines in via midi/kontakt? If so, is there a way to route that buss out of the daw and into UA's console and insert the plugins there (for reference) and have little to no latency? Does anyone work this way? Low latency while working is why I would invest in an Apollo.


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## Stephen Baysted (Jun 6, 2014)

givemenoughrope @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> JohnG @ Thu Jun 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Giant_Shadow @ 5th June 2014 said:
> ...



No, no noticeable latency here in Cubase if I insert for example the Massive Passive and the Shadow Hills into the Master bus in Cubase.


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## studioj (Jun 6, 2014)

It likely depends much on your buffer setting, ya? If you are working at 64 or 128, then inserting some UAD plugs will probably not be that noticeable. but if you're at 512 or 1024 i would guess you'll be getting into some heavy latency. i think these types of cards essentially double your buffer yes? The UAD plugs have a low latency setting but I think they start to use up native CPU when you use it so it sort of defeats the purpose. I miss Logic's "low latency mode" where you could toggle the system to essentially deactivate any latency offenders when you need to record. I have been eyeing UAD myself and it is this latency issue that is always turning me back... I mix as I write so it might not be the right workflow... still unsure though, info avail is not totally clear.


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 6, 2014)

Stephen Baysted @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> No, no noticeable latency here in Cubase if I insert for example the Massive Passive and the Shadow Hills into the Master bus in Cubase.



Wowie, and to be sure, this is WHILE you are playing in strings, drums...not on playback? I'm sold. Are you using Apollo via firewire or TBolt?


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## germancomponist (Jun 6, 2014)

Patrick de Caumette @ Thu Jun 05 said:


> UAD = game changer


+1


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## Stephen Baysted (Jun 6, 2014)

givemenoughrope @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> Stephen Baysted @ Fri Jun 06 said:
> 
> 
> > No, no noticeable latency here in Cubase if I insert for example the Massive Passive and the Shadow Hills into the Master bus in Cubase.
> ...



At the moment, FireWire. 

Yep, while playing.


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## gsilbers (Jun 6, 2014)

Stephen Baysted @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> givemenoughrope @ Fri Jun 06 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnG @ Thu Jun 05 said:
> ...




i dunno about this...

from what i understand, the apollo's magic relies in that you can record with the plugin sound to tape w/o latency. this is great and amazing since you get good sound plugin into your DAW while recording. but if you are just composing and or you have a good amount of tracks going on , then adding UAD plugins will increase latency, by simple fact that the DAW has to reach out and recieve the audio from the DSP, which takes some time (in DAW world time) .
so still like the UAD regular cards, i press play, i see the scroll bar in logic go to one bar before i hear sound and then i get to listen back the mix.... so when i hit a midi note... then its a whole bar late. unless i hit low latency mode in logic which is real time but it will bypass the UAD plugin. 
so please correct me if i am wrong. but maybe apollo is now doing what pro tools HD was going of getting all the DSP onto the HD cards so you can record (midi or audio etc) while playback and huge loads of tdm plugins? i dunno. i just know that apollo only has the DSP on entry and monitoring. but not on the whole shebang. 

also, just to add for anyone thinking into buying UAD.... 
the plugins are good and all... but not better from what you can find on native form. 
waves, slate digital and bx are about as good. 
for me the deal maker was getting the presision mastering bundle from UAD to print stems. thats such a huge time saver. i do it at the end. mix and add those for stems, so the stems sound great on their own and the dsp is not an issue as its like with native. 
native you have to mix the ttracks and then the stems so those busses are going nuts with dsp bottle neck... which is where the UAD shines for me. so i get a sound of a good native plugin AND save DSP which its being used in like 300 tracks of template plus whatever else i added after 1m1.


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 6, 2014)

gsilbers @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> for me the deal maker was getting the presision mastering bundle from UAD to print stems. thats such a huge time saver. i do it at the end. mix and add those for stems, so the stems sound great on their own and the dsp is not an issue as its like with native.



How many stems are we talking with mastering plugins? 8? 16? 30? Or will it handle anything reasonable?

Good info. thanks!


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## Stephen Baysted (Jun 7, 2014)

For me in Cubase, with my template (pulling in stuff from slaves too), there's no discernible difference in latency with UAD plugins in the master buss in Cubase (G series B comp, Manley etc). Might be different in Logic of course and YMMV. But no difference on or off for me.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 7, 2014)

No latency here as well with Cubase/Nuendo.
I use a UAD2 Quad card...


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## Stephen Baysted (Jun 7, 2014)

Patrick de Caumette @ Sat Jun 07 said:


> No latency here as well with Cubase/Nuendo.
> I use a UAD2 Quad card...



Glad it's not just me Patrick :mrgreen:


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