# Please, stop doing this!



## Ciochi (Aug 28, 2021)

It's been quite while I think of this. I am a noob in trailer music, and I thought that all started with 2wei, and hated them.
Well, even though I still hate them, now I know that it's not their fault.
I feel that this is killing creativity and originality. The bottom I guess was the cover of smashing pumpkins Bullets butterfly wings, I cannot stand anymore this trend.
What do you think about it?








How the Cover Song Conquered Movie Trailers


The production of custom-tailored, trailer-ready, high-drama cover songs has become a cottage industry.




www.newyorker.com


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## olajideparis (Aug 28, 2021)

I agree. More often than not, the songs chosen make no cinematic sense. I can see an argument for these covers being cool from a purely musical perspective, but I tend to find myself either laughing or in anger when I hear them in the context of a trailer.


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## Ciochi (Aug 28, 2021)

olajideparis said:


> I agree. More often than not, the songs chosen make no cinematic sense. I can see an argument for these covers being cool from a purely musical perspective, but I tend to find myself either laughing or in anger when I hear them in the context of a trailer.


Well, it's a self destructing genre. Take a melodic song, which brings you nostalgy, make it soft and generic till the backend, and then do it a little epic till the end. Once heard one, all are heard. Boring.


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## Troels Folmann (Aug 28, 2021)

It is just a trend.

The music industry is (and mostly always has been) a giant recycling bin. Trailers are designed to capture people's attention and using known melodies can achieve that. 

The auditory perception studies done on muzak in super markets proved that people purchased 5% more I think it was - when there was known music/melodies in their ears. 

The known makes us feel safe and thereby, possibly, connect easier to the message. It is more about psychology than it is about the music - and it will subside too - like all trends in advertising. But for now - expect a lot more of it.


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## Ciochi (Aug 28, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> It is just a trend.
> 
> The music industry is (and mostly always has been) a giant recycling bin. Trailers are designed to capture people's attention and using known melodies can achieve that.
> 
> ...


I know that is not going away. People like that. My wife is not an orchestral fan but she loves all this stuff.
Mine is just a rant, I know that.


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## will_m (Aug 28, 2021)

Trailer covers have been happening for well over 10 years so I'm not sure you can call it a trend. I don't think its that different from any other genre though where artists cover songs they enjoy, covers are always going to be a thing.

Personally I don't understand taking to a forum to bash it, seems like wasted energy. One of these threads pops up every year or so and they have zero impact on the people involved (speaking from experience). Trailer covers are actually on the increase and are requested from the studios and the trailer houses because enough people like them.


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## Robin Thompson (Aug 28, 2021)

I mean, you can't make me not love the Blue Monday cover from the WW84 trailer. But yeah, this sort of thing has become an easy, off-the-shelf way to sound profound.


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## onnomusic (Sep 16, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> It's been quite while I think of this. I am a noob in trailer music, and I thought that all started with 2wei, and hated them.
> Well, even though I still hate them, now I know that it's not their fault.
> I feel that this is killing creativity and originality. The bottom I guess was the cover of smashing pumpkins Bullets butterfly wings, I cannot stand anymore this trend.
> What do you think about it?
> ...


you do realise most of these covers are made to briefs, right? It's the studios requesting remixes for those songs, often because the lyrical content matches the mood of the trailer.. More often than not its not the composers pushing them.

Also, maybe try to channel your anger somewhere, a lot of hate and frustration in your post


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## MaxOctane (Sep 16, 2021)

Ok, but every once in a while there's a trailer that picks a song that makes perfect sense thematically, and then gives it a nice treatment, and then up-ends it beautifully and dramatically in the middle and makes you say "Whoa! _What was that_? I love this!!"


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## Dirtgrain (Sep 16, 2021)

Not a trailer, but _Westworld_ had a number of cover songs in it. It started driving me crazy when I couldn't think of what song was playing--a bit distracting and also removed me from immersion in the show somewhat.


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## MaxOctane (Sep 16, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> Not a trailer, but _Westworld_ had a number of cover songs in it. It started driving me crazy when I couldn't think of what song was playing--a bit distracting and also removed me from immersion in the show somewhat.


Yeah, the pieces were good but didn't always fit. Like Black Hole Sun. There wasn't any thematic connection with the episode. It was just a cool, fun cover. But it took me out of the scene -- I just got to thinking about what a great song it was.


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## jcrosby (Sep 16, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> It's been quite while I think of this. I am a noob in trailer music, and I thought that all started with 2wei, and hated them.
> Well, even though I still hate them, now I know that it's not their fault.
> I feel that this is killing creativity and originality. The bottom I guess was the cover of smashing pumpkins Bullets butterfly wings, I cannot stand anymore this trend.
> What do you think about it?
> ...


The direction a movie, series, etc wants to take with marketing is usually determined by the creative marketing team. The composer or label are hired to deliver a commercial product, and at the end of the day trailer music IS marketing music. Some of it's incredible, some of it's pretty terrible, but ultimately it's just another form of high level advertising...

This is also the way it is in any creative industry... Some work stands apart and you can really be proud of what you contributed from a genuinely artistic standpoint. Other work is strictly work you were hired to deliver for a client, and while you're not wild about it, it put a roof over your head...

There's also a whole lot of stuff that happens behind the scenes if you haven't written for a trailer label. Many bigger campaigns are given to multiple trailer houses, and/or multiple labels and everyone is essentially competing on spec until the marketing team decides to run with one of them. This is what actually sucks... Unless you get an exclusive marketing agreement (rare), you're essentially cross-competing with other labels; trailer house are cross-competing with other trailer houses... Then again that's just the way it goes with custom campaigns, and no trailer label or artist are unaware of the reality. It's just part of what you signed up for...

The same thing happens in all corners of the advertising industry. (TV marketing campaigns for big brands for example...) One day you have an offer or get asked for a quote, the next day they do a 180 on you because they _decided to run in a different direction_.

If anything try and put yourself in the shoes of how unpredictable it is to work in an industry where the marketing department can flip on a dime... And perhaps consider that more often than not, this is rarely a decision made by musicians. There are cases where that can/did happen with a cover song, but more often than not a _trailerized_ cover was ultimately done to capture or keep the attention of a department that has a tendency to change horses midstream.

As far as the trend, it's been around for years now... 2WEI are incredible musicians and you should give their non-cover music a listen (if you haven't). Some of it is genuinely spectacular and stands on equal footing with some of the best film composers...


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## Bman70 (Sep 16, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> The direction a movie, series, etc wants to take with marketing is usually determined by the creative marketing team. The composer or label are hired to deliver a commercial product, and at the end of the day trailer music IS marketing music. Some of it's incredible, some of it's pretty terrible, but ultimately it's just another form of high level advertising...
> 
> This is also the way it is in any creative industry... Some work stands apart and you can really be proud of what you contributed from a genuinely artistic standpoint. Other work is strictly work you were hired to deliver for a client, and while you're not wild about it, it put a roof over your head...
> 
> ...



So real life is Fivver now? 
That reminds me of when I tried out one of those "logo mill" graphic design websites. It was all spec work – complex graphic design, finished logos by the dozen hoping to please the prospective client, who had just thrown an often vague job description into the crowd and said "Go!"

The "hire-er" would swoop in like a wealthy baron, on occasion, giving out pats on the back "This one is in the running! Try adding a bevel to the text." Basically ordering changes at will, all on spec. The fact that it was considered normal was pretty surprising. I hadn't expected that, especially from clients, who had usually a small sum on the line but thought they were basically the boss of a team of designers filling unlimited requests on spec.


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## MaxOctane (Sep 16, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> Not a trailer, but _Westworld_ had a number of cover songs in it. It started driving me crazy when I couldn't think of what song was playing--a bit distracting and also removed me from immersion in the show somewhat.


In retrospect, the cover music was a really odd choice. I think they used "Paint It Black" also during the one big shootout/massacre scene in season 1. The odd thing is that the central conceit of Westworld is "immersion." People would pay to enter a different world, from a different time, and be totally absorbed in it. And the only times the host-world facade was broken, it was critical in the plot.

So then it's actually quite bizarre to drop in Black Hole Sun and Paint It Black into that world, during moments where the characters (and we, as passengers) are meant to be fully immersed in that 1800s frontier environment.


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## jcrosby (Sep 16, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> So real life is Fivver now?
> That reminds me of when I tried out one of those "logo mill" graphic design websites. It was all spec work – complex graphic design, finished logos by the dozen hoping to please the prospective client, who had just thrown an often vague job description into the crowd and said "Go!"
> 
> The "hire-er" would swoop in like a wealthy baron, on occasion, giving out pats on the back "This one is in the running! Try adding a bevel to the text." Basically ordering changes at will, all on spec. The fact that it was considered normal was pretty surprising. I hadn't expected that, especially from clients, who had usually a small sum on the line but thought they were basically the boss of a team of designers filling unlimited requests on spec.


It seems pretty crazy but the payout for a custom can be pretty huge. A friend of mine just did a pitch for a certain iconic HBO series (no word yet), and the payout if they land it is I belike 60k (before the publishing split)... So it does seem kind of crazy, and it is in many ways. I suppose you could say it's kind of like a gambling addiction 

This is a great interview with Hi-Finesse where they go over all of this...

*EDIT*: In response to the reply above mine where @MaxOctane mentions Paint It Black...

Funny enough they talk about having to _trailerize_ We've Got to Get Out of this place for Kong Island somewhere in the interview, (it's pretty terrible!  Musically at least... ((But it clearly did the job...)
They also talk about covers at: 51:20 & 55:30.

Overall though it's a really great look at what the actual process is like from the label/composer's perspective...


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## RonOrchComp (Sep 16, 2021)

I hear what the op is saying, but you want to know what's worse?

This:



and this:



and on.


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## poly6 (Sep 16, 2021)

Is it just me or was anybody else bothered by the trailer for Clint Eastwood's Cry Macho using Morricone's theme from The Mission? That music is so iconic it's like using the Star Wars theme for another movie.


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## Bman70 (Sep 16, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> It seems pretty crazy but the payout for a custom can be pretty huge. A friend of mine just did a pitch for a certain iconic HBO series (no word yet), and the payout if they land it is I belike 60k (before the publishing split)... So it does seem kind of crazy, and it is in many ways. I suppose you could say it's kind of like a gambling addiction
> 
> This is a great interview with Hi-Finesse where they go over all of this...
> 
> ...




For a $60k payout, definitely it's worth some spec work, because you can calculate how many hours you can afford if you do land it vs. if you don't. Graphic design is a different world and often that was happening for $100 or $200 contracts. An internet-enabled development of course.

It's interesting they're talking about rhythmic trailers in that video. I was pleasantly surprised recently starting video editing again after about 10 years off.. and the new software was automatically "snapping" my video clips to the waveform peaks of the music! I can see the appeal of having that happen.


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## Robin Thompson (Sep 16, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> That reminds me of when I tried out one of those "logo mill" graphic design websites. It was all spec work – complex graphic design, finished logos by the dozen hoping to please the prospective client, who had just thrown an often vague job description into the crowd and said "Go!"


Ugh, I've been there. It sucks.



MaxOctane said:


> In retrospect, the cover music was a really odd choice. I think they used "Paint It Black" also during the one big shootout/massacre scene in season 1. The odd thing is that the central conceit of Westworld is "immersion." People would pay to enter a different world, from a different time, and be totally absorbed in it. And the only times the host-world facade was broken, it was critical in the plot.
> 
> So then it's actually quite bizarre to drop in Black Hole Sun and Paint It Black into that world, during moments where the characters (and we, as passengers) are meant to be fully immersed in that 1800s frontier environment.


I have to disagree. Even for the guests in the show, it's really only a certain kind of immersion that's important. They want to be soaked in the atmosphere, but they didn't come for the _real_ Old West, they came for a subservient fantasy Old West that operates on fundamentally different rules from the real world. They're there precisely to _escape_ the limitations of reality. And certainly for viewers, the tension between reality and fantasy is at the forefront of the show. I think the use of period covers captures that tension perfectly.

The memorability of Paint It Black also became useful when they used a different cover of it to connect that scene with a similar scene in season 2.


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## Ciochi (Sep 18, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> The direction a movie, series, etc wants to take with marketing is usually determined by the creative marketing team. The composer or label are hired to deliver a commercial product, and at the end of the day trailer music IS marketing music. Some of it's incredible, some of it's pretty terrible, but ultimately it's just another form of high level advertising...
> 
> This is also the way it is in any creative industry... Some work stands apart and you can really be proud of what you contributed from a genuinely artistic standpoint. Other work is strictly work you were hired to deliver for a client, and while you're not wild about it, it put a roof over your head...
> 
> ...



I know that they are good. It's what drives me crazy: they're incredibly capable of doing anything, but they are mostly known for Beyoncè or Britney covers. Isn't it frustating for an artist? 
Maybe it's just a problem of mine, but I've always considered covers as the easy way to success: if the original artist hasn't come up with that melody, or lyrics, or riff, or idea, the coverer would not have any material to work. 
I've spent years, when teen, covering with bands, and then I got bored. In the same way I hate jazz's standards: what's the point? I value originality the most, even if it resembles a lot of other stuff.


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## onnomusic (Sep 20, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> I know that they are good. It's what drives me crazy: they're incredibly capable of doing anything, but they are mostly known for Beyoncè or Britney covers. Isn't it frustating for an artist?
> Maybe it's just a problem of mine, but I've always considered covers as the easy way to success: if the original artist hasn't come up with that melody, or lyrics, or riff, or idea, the coverer would not have any material to work.
> I've spent years, when teen, covering with bands, and then I got bored. In the same way I hate jazz's standards: what's the point? I value originality the most, even if it resembles a lot of other stuff.


I think you have to differentiate between an artist and a mediacomposer like trailer composers. the former you can do what you want, the latter you are the gun for hire. Having been on both sides, I can assure you fun is to be had on both sides, as long as you know which you are focussing on on that particular moment


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## Pier (Sep 20, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> Not a trailer, but _Westworld_ had a number of cover songs in it. It started driving me crazy when I couldn't think of what song was playing--a bit distracting and also removed me from immersion in the show somewhat.


I agree... but then somehow it became part of the identity of the show and even in the third season (spoiler: it happens outside the park) there are tons of these covers.


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## JoeWatkin (Sep 20, 2021)

poly6 said:


> Is it just me or was anybody else bothered by the trailer for Clint Eastwood's Cry Macho using Morricone's theme from The Mission? That music is so iconic it's like using the Star Wars theme for another movie.


Yeah threw me back a bit too - also sidenote, the film was a bit of a mis-fire imo. Definitely not up to par with his others.


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