# Beginner digital piano that can also do MIDI



## Awoo Composer (Jun 30, 2022)

I'm new to keyboards and I bought a Yamaha EZ300 recentlyish to learn on. Only problem is I thought having the 600 or so voices available was better than anything else (child at heart...), and now I'm beginning to question if I should bite the bullet and get a digital piano instead. Now that I know that I can make much much *much* more realistic things using samples and a DAW, having those extra voices doesn't seem like much other than a giant distraction. I also can't get the "this feels like a toy not anything serious" feeling out of my head. At least with my first guitar it was an actual fullscale squier that served as a good tool to learn the basics. On these synth keys while being ultra easy to press I can barely control my dynamics and it doesn't feel like it's going to build up finger strength for playing. It's also 61 keys which... well, it turns out even most classical music seems to span more range than 61 keys gives me.

I was looking at things like the Yamaha P45/125, Roland something-10, and others. Does anyone here use these kind of digital pianos instead of actual MIDI controllers? The only thing that would concern me for using it for MIDI/DAW purposes is the lack of any modulation wheel or faders. I'm pretty sure I can find external controllers for that if I needed it, or I can just draw it in like I have been.


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## cedricm (Jun 30, 2022)

Yes you can use a digital piano as a midi controller.
You'll just have to disable its speakers when using it for this purpose.
You can purchase a midi controller or similar to add modwheel/pitchbend.

It's mostly a good idea if you'll have a use for the digital piano as a digital piano.

Otherwise, I would recommend a midi keyboard. You can get an 88-keys such as StudioLogic SL88 (that's what I use) if you favor the piano feel, or a synth action and perhaps a smaller one, which also has its advantages, such as fitting on smaller spaces.
If you don't play live, and in some situation even if you do, you can get by with up/down octave keys.

Perhaps it would be best for all of us to "build up finger strength" on an 8 feet grand piano.
Bur in my opinion, go with what you have first and see in a few months whether it's too limiting for you.
Unless you can send it back for a full reimbursement, in which case it may be worth switching sooner.


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## Jrides (Jun 30, 2022)

I use the Roland FP 10. The Yamaha P 45 is a lighter touch and a bit easier to play, but it doesn’t output the full range of velocity values. The Roland doesn’t have that problem. I also use the native instruments kk61 mk2. So I do not miss the different expression controls.


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## proxima (Jun 30, 2022)

I'd recommend the Yamaha P125 or a used version of one of its predecessors (I had a P95). 88 weighted keys at a good price. Just turn down the volume and add a midi cc controller like the korg nanokontrol and you have a good setup at low cost. 

Obviously with a higher budget you can get better keys and nicer faders. But if you like weighted keys, get weighted keys.


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## Quasar (Jun 30, 2022)

Yamaha P series pianos (or better yet CP series stage pianos with built-in mod wheel and pitch bend) make excellent MIDI controllers. I've never considered getting a branded "controller" for 88 weighted keys. I used to have a P120, and currently have a CP33, bought used for $500 USD, and it's great.

I do have a double keyboard stand with an additional 61 key controller for light, non-percussive or piano-like playing and it has the MIDI CC knobs and faders etc., though you could get something like the Korg Nanokontrol2 as well.

The sort answer is yes, digital pianos work great as controllers.


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## LatinXCombo (Jun 30, 2022)

I have had a Yamaha NP11 for quite a while, and it is decent enough as a MIDI controller. Really, it was intended as a piano substitute that later got pressed into service as a MIDI controller.

Frankly...I find it a compromise in too many ways. It sounds...acceptable enough as a piano I guess, but I've had a few songs that are difficult to play on the 61 key layout. It also doesn't come with the usual knobs and wheels that a real MIDI controller might have. So I had to buy a standalone from Akai for those purposes. Not expensive, of course, just something to note. 

We just got a Roland FP90x, and both my daughter and I agreed that after playing that, the keyboard action on the NP11 kinda feels like a toy. 

^ Of course, without having the NP11 handy for years to mess around with until we decided to get more 'serious' we might not have gotten more serious. Plus never underestimate art from adversity, right?


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## Real Mirage (Jun 30, 2022)

Mine is Korg D1. The keys are excellent and are surprisingly realistic for his price. If I remember correctly he has Korg's finest RH-3 Real Weighted Hammer Action. Connect him with your sample piano in DAW for the best experience.
But you have to use a Korg pedal, or at least make sure the pedal fits. I bought a Roland pedal and couldn't use it on him.


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## Awoo Composer (Jul 1, 2022)

Lots of things to consider here. I narrowed it down to either the P-125 or the Roland FP-10/30. Not really sure which way I want to go... although my desk space is pretty not ideal for the width of an 88 key keyboard. I suppose I can try and re-arrange things.


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## Markrs (Jul 1, 2022)

Love my FP-10 but I haven't tried others and it does feel a bit heavy playing it compared to when I play a normal MIDI keyboard.


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## Markrs (Jul 1, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> Lots of things to consider here. I narrowed it down to either the P-125 or the Roland FP-10/30. Not really sure which way I want to go... although my desk space is pretty not ideal for the width of an 88 key keyboard. I suppose I can try and re-arrange things.




Lots of other reviews on YouTube on these 2 pianos. Some with be reviews against the FP30 but that is pretty much the same as the FP10.


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## Rob (Jul 1, 2022)

fp10 for me too, good key feel... you still need a controller for cc though


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## Awoo Composer (Jul 1, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Lots of other reviews on YouTube on these 2 pianos. Some with be reviews against the FP30 but that is pretty much the same as the FP10.



I've been watching a few. I heard something about the Roland having "noisy" keys or something? Is there any difference between the FP-10/30 in terms of key feel?


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## Markrs (Jul 1, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> I've been watching a few. I heard something about the Roland having "noisy" keys or something? Is there any difference between the FP-10/30 in terms of key feel?


They both have the same keybed. Personally I haven't noticed that they are particularly noisy at all, it is certainly quieter than my MIDI keyboards. However I don't have another digital piano to compare it against.


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## Daniel (Jul 1, 2022)

You can go with combo Yamaha P45 and Korg NanoKontrol for midi cc fader/modwheel.
I am using Roland FP10 and Yamaha P35 with Korg NanoKontrol. 
I prefer Yamaha P45 instead of Roland FP10.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 1, 2022)

FP10 here too. I think it's the best piano action you can get for under a grand. (I also have a Kawai CA97 digital piano which is better, but it cost 5x as much.) Very much worth getting the best key action you can for your budget and then augmenting with a small midi controller such as nanokontrol, mixface, etc.


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## Awoo Composer (Jul 1, 2022)

Originally I was looking at the P-45 but the polyphony voices is 64. I don't know what that means but apparently it's low, whereas the FP-10 has 96 and the 125/FP 30 have double that. Not sure if I would run across it but that was something I was considering in my decision.


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 1, 2022)

Rob said:


> fp10 for me too, good key feel... you still need a controller for cc though


But at least you get a piano that kinda feels like a piano and not a toy keyboard!


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## SupremeFist (Jul 1, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> Originally I was looking at the P-45 but the polyphony voices is 64. I don't know what that means but apparently it's low, whereas the FP-10 has 96 and the 125/FP 30 have double that. Not sure if I would run across it but that was something I was considering in my decision.


this has no bearing on how it works as a midi controller; it's just how many voices the built-in sound engine (which you probably won't use) can play simultaneously.


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## Quasar (Jul 1, 2022)

LatinXCombo said:


> But at least you get a piano that kinda feels like a piano and not a toy keyboard!


I obviously haven't tried most of them, but anecdotally at least, it seems like you can get _much _better key action on a digital piano than you can on an 88 key MIDI controller at a similar price point. Even the Casio Privia boards (which I have tried but wasn't overly taken with compared to Yamaha) offer decent piano keys compared to all but the highest-end, priciest controllers (VPC1 et al.).

And to the OP: SupremeFist is correct that polyphony doesn't matter unless playing the internal built-in voices, which isn't why you're buying it. And besides, even if you do want to play the internal sounds, 64 is probably enough (though the bare minimum) for casual piano playing. OTOH if you're a Rubinstein or a Horowitz, then that's obviously a whole other set of concerns.


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## Awoo Composer (Jul 1, 2022)

I think MIDI keyboards can make sense depending on how much you're willing to spend, or on what kind of music you write, but it certainly feels like digital pianos are a better value than most MIDI keyboards unless you like the very toy-esque feeling keys on the more budget options.



SupremeFist said:


> this has no bearing on how it works as a midi controller; it's just how many voices the built-in sound engine (which you probably won't use) can play simultaneously.


Really dumb question - aside from playing the piano with your butt, how could you trigger 64 voices at once? That seems 100% inhuman to me.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 1, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> I think MIDI keyboards can make sense depending on how much you're willing to spend, or on what kind of music you write, but it certainly feels like digital pianos are a better value than most MIDI keyboards unless you like the very toy-esque feeling keys on the more budget options.



Yep I think digital pianos simply sell an order of magnitude more (ie to people wanting to learn/practise piano), so they have an economy of scale and therefore can be better at the same price as a keyboard aimed specifically at composers/producers..


Awoo Composer said:


> Really dumb question - aside from playing the piano with your butt, how could you trigger 64 voices at once? That seems 100% inhuman to me.


Not a dumb question! Any note that is still ringing while you play other notes (especially if you have the sustain pedal held down) takes up a note of polyphony, so they add up surprisingly quickly.


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## liquidlino (Jul 1, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> I'm new to keyboards and I bought a Yamaha EZ300 recentlyish to learn on. Only problem is I thought having the 600 or so voices available was better than anything else (child at heart...), and now I'm beginning to question if I should bite the bullet and get a digital piano instead. Now that I know that I can make much much *much* more realistic things using samples and a DAW, having those extra voices doesn't seem like much other than a giant distraction. I also can't get the "this feels like a toy not anything serious" feeling out of my head. At least with my first guitar it was an actual fullscale squier that served as a good tool to learn the basics. On these synth keys while being ultra easy to press I can barely control my dynamics and it doesn't feel like it's going to build up finger strength for playing. It's also 61 keys which... well, it turns out even most classical music seems to span more range than 61 keys gives me.
> 
> I was looking at things like the Yamaha P45/125, Roland something-10, and others. Does anyone here use these kind of digital pianos instead of actual MIDI controllers? The only thing that would concern me for using it for MIDI/DAW purposes is the lack of any modulation wheel or faders. I'm pretty sure I can find external controllers for that if I needed it, or I can just draw it in like I have been.


I have p45. Be warned, the midi output isn't full range 0-127, it's more like 20-100 and you'll end up having to put midi plugins to scale the velocities etc into your daw. Other than that it's a nice action for the price, been very reliable. Knowing a bit more now, I wouldn't buy again. But either way, you absolutely must go play a selection of pianos and controllers at a store before deciding what suits you. There are so many different keybeds and actions, from ultra slow to really quick, to escapement, real hammer feel etc. My advice, don't cheap out on this purchase, it's the most important and long lasting purchase. I'm probably selling the p45 this year and getting something that has faders, knobs etc as well, something like the Arturia keylab 88 or similar. No built in sounds, just a dedicated controller, as no built in piano sounds remotely compare to piano sample libraries.


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 1, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> I have p45. Be warned, the midi output isn't full range 0-127, it's more like 20-100


Yes, I've found the same to be true with the Yamaha NP11....


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## Jrides (Jul 2, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> I have p45. Be warned, the midi output isn't full range 0-127, it's more like 20-100 and you'll end up having to put midi plugins to scale the velocities etc into your daw. Other than that it's a nice action for the price, been very reliable. Knowing a bit more now, I wouldn't buy again. But either way, you absolutely must go play a selection of pianos and controllers at a store before deciding what suits you. There are so many different keybeds and actions, from ultra slow to really quick, to escapement, real hammer feel etc. My advice, don't cheap out on this purchase, it's the most important and long lasting purchase. I'm probably selling the p45 this year and getting something that has faders, knobs etc as well, something like the Arturia keylab 88 or similar. No built in sounds, just a dedicated controller, as no built in piano sounds remotely compare to piano sample libraries.


Honestly I was wondering why people recommending the Yamaha P series are not bringing this up. It’s a pretty big deal breaker in my book. I like the lighter feel of the Yamaha P series, but wasn’t willing to give up the full velocity range . TBH, my fingers are used to semi weighted keys. Which is the reason why I prefer the Yamaha action. The Roland action fields closer to the pianos I have played.

OP already stated frustration with trying to control dynamics currently. Building finger strength was also mentioned. if those things are truly important to the OP, the Roland FP series is going to be better for those purposes.

My guess would be that the people recommending the Yamaha P series… Their music is not nuanced enough to care, or they’re playing style doesn’t really take advantage of having the full velocity range, so perhaps it’s not noticeable.


that being said… A good MIDI controller might be the best solution for the OP. In my case, I wanted Native Instruments KK MK2. However I thought the 88 key version felt awful. That’s the reason why I ended up with a midi controller and a digital piano. In my case that was the cheapest way to get everything I wanted.


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## Real Mirage (Jul 2, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> I think MIDI keyboards can make sense depending on how much you're willing to spend, or on what kind of music you write, but it certainly feels like digital pianos are a better value than most MIDI keyboards unless you like the very toy-esque feeling keys on the more budget options.
> 
> 
> Really dumb question - aside from playing the piano with your butt, how could you trigger 64 voices at once? That seems 100% inhuman to me.


Not a dumb question~
It has something to do with, for example, pedals. If you play too many notes in one sustain pedal, some digital pianos might not be able to calculate it, therefore some notes would get missed as if being cut off all of a sudden.


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## Awoo Composer (Jul 2, 2022)

I'm going to hit my local music store to see if I can try any Rolands they have (it appears they have the FP-30X) based on the suggestions here, but I'll also look at the Yamaha's just to see which one feels better for me. I think I want a digital piano because I would like to also just be able to use it standalone.


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## Double Helix (Jul 2, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> I'm going to hit my local music store to see if I can try any Rolands they have . . .


This has a fairly comprehensive set of review criteria:





5 Best Digital Keyboards - July 2022 - BestReviews


Our team of experts has selected the best digital keyboards out of hundreds of models. Don't buy a digital keyboard before reading these reviews.



bestreviews.com






*I stumbled upon this site by searching for the Roland V-Piano; the V-Piano is exPENsive, but oh em gee, it sounds like it _should_ cost that much. Maybe the store you visit will have one you can noodle around on


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## Quasar (Jul 2, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> I think MIDI keyboards can make sense depending on how much you're willing to spend, or on what kind of music you write, but it certainly feels like digital pianos are a better value than most MIDI keyboards unless you like the very toy-esque feeling keys on the more budget options.
> 
> 
> Really dumb question - aside from playing the piano with your butt, how could you trigger 64 voices at once? That seems 100% inhuman to me.


Sustain pedal will cause notes to hold, and piano notes decay for a bit even without sustain. If the piano is stereo then the polyphony is x2, or if you layer internal sounds (piano + strings) etc... It can all add up pretty fast. On an acoustic piano notes that are not played still vibrate and become part of the harmonics of the notes being played, and some DPs emulate this. Yoiu may not hear it, but the absence of those harmonics will detract from the realism.

If I were buying a digital piano for the internal sounds, I'd probably be looking at 128 minimum, if not 192.


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## Awoo Composer (Jul 2, 2022)

Thanks to you guys (and my music store had great financing options) I brought home an FP-30X . Loved the Roland more to the yamaha due to the key feel. The glossy like finish on the yamaha keys felt very weird to my very prone-to-sweat fingers.

Stupid question #2 - should a keyboard overhang this much on a stand? The stand has a good weight limit and this keyboard does not come close to even half of it, so that's fine. I just don't know how much overhang is usual on fullsize keyboards. The other side overhangs about the same. (ignore the mess...)


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## Rob (Jul 2, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> Thanks to you guys (and my music store had great financing options) I brought home an FP-30X . Loved the Roland more to the yamaha due to the key feel. The glossy like finish on the yamaha keys felt very weird to my very prone-to-sweat fingers.
> 
> Stupid question #2 - should a keyboard overhang this much on a stand? The stand has a good weight limit and this keyboard does not come close to even half of it, so that's fine. I just don't know how much overhang is usual on fullsize keyboards. The other side overhangs about the same. (ignore the mess...)


yeah that's fine, congratulations!


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## Awoo Composer (Jul 2, 2022)

Thank you guys for being ultra helpful, this feels immensely more satisfying than any of the keyboards i've ever played.  Eventually I'll get a desk or something so I can hold the keyboard + any CC controllers I'll need, but right now I can plonk my MacBook on it and use it as a controller.


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## STMICHAELS (Jul 2, 2022)

Real Mirage said:


> Mine is Korg D1. The keys are excellent and are surprisingly realistic for his price. If I remember correctly he has Korg's finest RH-3 Real Weighted Hammer Action. Connect him with your sample piano in DAW for the best experience.
> But you have to use a Korg pedal, or at least make sure the pedal fits. I bought a Roland pedal and couldn't use it on him.





Markrs said:


> Love my FP-10 but I haven't tried others and it does feel a bit heavy playing it compared to when I play a normal MIDI keyboard.


Real Mirage and Markrs,

Do you use the D1 (Real Mirage) and FP10 (Markrs) for triggering other samples too vs just Piano? How does it fare with triggering those?

I see FP10 it has escapement (great for piano but not triggering samples I guess) I don't think the D1 has escapement, and thus was wondering how it fares with playing non-piano VST samples.. OR do you have dedicated semi- weighted for that?


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## Real Mirage (Jul 2, 2022)

STMICHAELS said:


> Real Mirage and Markrs,
> 
> Do you use the D1 (Real Mirage) and FP10 (Markrs) for triggering other samples too vs just Piano? How does it fare with triggering those?
> 
> I see FP10 it has escapement (great for piano but not triggering samples I guess) I don't think the D1 has escapement, and thus was wondering how it fares with playing non-piano VST samples.. OR do you have dedicated semi- weighted for that?


Yes, I use D1 for other samples as well. To me it works the same as a midi keyboard (with no pitch/mod wheels of course).
Keys are heavier than usual digital pianos though.


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## Markrs (Jul 2, 2022)

STMICHAELS said:


> Do you use the D1 (Real Mirage) and FP10 (Markrs) for triggering other samples too vs just Piano? How does it fare with triggering those?


I use it for MIDI input into the DAW, though I do still manipulate the notes on the piano roll if needed.


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## Al Maurice (Jul 3, 2022)

Yamaha usually have an option on their keyboards to disengage 'local control', thus redirecting midi to the external port usually USB without passing MIDI thru to the internal sound engine. I'm sure other marques will do the same.

I have found the keybeds vary so it's advisable to try one before you buy. Also you might want something that can behave like a grand piano with keyboard escapment or deeper levels of dynamics, or maybe more like an upright without and less dynamic. Some can support the behaviour of 3 piano peddle arrangements, most can't or at the very least will take a sustain peddle or additionally an expression one.

The piano mechanism is unique to that instrument, emulating most other instruments tend to to work best for me using a semi-weighted keybed instead, enabling more possiblity of creating suitable orchestration.


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## osterdamus (Jul 3, 2022)

Awoo Composer said:


> Thanks to you guys (and my music store had great financing options) I brought home an FP-30X . Loved the Roland more to the yamaha due to the key feel. The glossy like finish on the yamaha keys felt very weird to my very prone-to-sweat fingers.
> 
> Stupid question #2 - should a keyboard overhang this much on a stand? The stand has a good weight limit and this keyboard does not come close to even half of it, so that's fine. I just don't know how much overhang is usual on fullsize keyboards. The other side overhangs about the same. (ignore the mess...)


Congrats! Just a little heads up, the default key sensitivity might make it hard to reach higher velocities. The manual contains instructions on how to change this.


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## STMICHAELS (Jul 4, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> Yep I think digital pianos simply sell an order of magnitude more (ie to people wanting to learn/practise piano), so they have an economy of scale and therefore can be better at the same price as a keyboard aimed specifically at composers/producers..
> 
> Not a dumb question! Any note that is still ringing while you play other notes (especially if you have the sustain pedal held down) takes up a note of polyphony, so they add up surprisingly quickly.


Congrats to the original poster on your new Roland FP30x. Also appreciate the comments above.

Question: How important is the triple sensor in these keyboards. I see most do not have a triple sensor except the Roland, SL88, Kawai etc.

Do other controllers/Digital Pianos (example Korg D1) not get the advantage of expressiveness in sample libraries, because it lacks it? Or is it more to do with playability? 
Trying to understand how crucial and important triple sensors are and if it makes a significant difference to the expressiveness of the sample library since most libraries you can edit velocity curve.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 4, 2022)

STMICHAELS said:


> Question: How important is the triple sensor in these keyboards. I see most do not have a triple sensor except the Roland, SL88, Kawai etc.
> 
> Do other controllers/Digital Pianos (example Korg D1) not get the advantage of expressiveness in sample libraries, because it lacks it? Or is it more to do with playability?
> Trying to understand how crucial and important triple sensors are and if it makes a significant difference to the expressiveness of the sample library since most libraries you can edit velocity curve.


It's purely about the feel of the keyboard: it will not affect the sound from a sample library at all.


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## Real Mirage (Jul 4, 2022)

STMICHAELS said:


> Congrats to the original poster on your new Roland FP30x. Also appreciate the comments above.
> 
> Question: How important is the triple sensor in these keyboards. I see most do not have a triple sensor except the Roland, SL88, Kawai etc.
> 
> ...


Well as I said, it doesn't affect the playability of the samples. I chose it simply because I'm a pianist myself and I prefer a more realistic touch


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