# Are more musicians switching back to PCs?



## 5Lives (Oct 6, 2013)

Just posing a question - do you feel that more musicians are moving back to PCs these days instead of sticking with Macs? It is just anecdotal, but I've started to sense that PCs are gaining more favor in the musical community. There was a spike in Mac converts after the Logic 9 release (I was one of them), but I think with Windows 7/8 and Cubase 7 / PT11 / Studio One coupled with the cheaper prices of PCs for building high power workstations, it seems like Macs are losing a bit of their luster.

Just my opinion - what do you all think? Any Mac users out there looking to switch to PC? I have a Mac Pro 3,1 and it is a beast, but not sure I'll stick with Mac for my DAW going forward.


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## germancomponist (Oct 6, 2013)

I know many who are now happy PC users. These big Apple times are history.... .


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## Studio E (Oct 6, 2013)

I remember desperately wishing that I could afford a Mac. Then I managed to get by on my P4 Dell with a separate sample drive for almost 5 years. When it was time to upgrade, the Macs were still too much and I had a custom PC built by a pro DAW maker. When it was time to upgrade earlier this year, there was absolutely no reason to do so as a Cubase user. I understand the guys who are attached to Logic or whatever Mac-only software but the times have certainly shifted, especially among PLAY users.


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## 5Lives (Oct 6, 2013)

For those that have gotten custom built DAWs, which manufacturers did you use for those?

The new Mac Pro is coming out soon - one thing I like is the Thunderbolt connection. Although USB 3 is available on PCs, how's the Thunderbolt availability?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 6, 2013)

More musicians are going to be switching to tablets and smartphones.

This argument about Macs and PCs is a leftover from the last century.


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## rgames (Oct 6, 2013)

Are musicians switching back to PC's?

Yes because they don't really have a choice.

Apple is, fundamentally, a gadget company. I wouldn't be surprised if they completely leave the desktop market in a few years.

rgames


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## germancomponist (Oct 6, 2013)

5Lives @ Sun Oct 06 said:


> For those that have gotten custom built DAWs, which manufacturers did you use for those?
> 
> The new Mac Pro is coming out soon - one thing I like is the Thunderbolt connection. Although USB 3 is available on PCs, how's the Thunderbolt availability?



No theme. The most new mother boards have this on board.... . 

I think the future will be interesting when it comes to DAWs. One month ago I bought this: http://www.besserpc-shop.de/epages/62691663.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62691663/Products/004A147377P + 2 drives. Works perfect and is very cheap.


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## Arbee (Oct 6, 2013)

I used a reputable local gaming PC vendor to build my machine up from one of their base specs, couldn't be happier. In my day job there are still some users who believe they would lose their creative energy if they switched from Mac to a PC :roll: :lol: 

.


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## germancomponist (Oct 6, 2013)

In the past Apple stood for the pros in any discipline. But this was in the past.... .


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## muziksculp (Oct 6, 2013)

Hi,

I switched to PC three years ago. I feel I made a wise decision :mrgreen: 

Apple/ Mac has not brought anything special that would tempt me to switch back. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## guitarman1960 (Oct 6, 2013)

My day job is graphic design and web design. Years ago the Mac OS was far ahead of the clunky PC operating system, and all the best software was Mac only. Hence Macs became the Pro choice like in the Music industry. However nearly everyone I know now uses a PC both for graphics and for music.
The Apple OS has got worse and worse and the laptops and desktop machines are way way overpriced. Consumers may pay over the odds to show off their trendy new iphones, ipads and ipods, but when it comes to business and machines for earning a living people want value for money as well as performance and the last thing Macs are is value for money.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 6, 2013)

If I were not "the Logic Pro Guy", I probably would be running 2 PCs for composing work and a Mac for everything else.


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## germancomponist (Oct 6, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Oct 06 said:


> If I were not "the Logic Pro Guy", I probably would be running 2 PCs for composing work and a Mac for everything else.



Did I tell you that you are a very sympathetic guy?


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## jamwerks (Oct 6, 2013)

I recently dumped Mac (Logic & DP) for Cubase, and bought 2 snazzy, powerful & inexpensive PC's & couldn't be happier...


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## synapse21 (Oct 6, 2013)

I still prefer Macs for Pro Tools, but everything else? Runs great on PC. Once you're busy in the DAW after your optimization pass with Windows for audio, it doesn't really matter what the OS is. I chose to go with better, faster hardware, so PC it was for me.


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## snattack (Oct 6, 2013)

I built a PC a while back, but I ran into sync problems beteen the soundcard & the motherboard clock which resulted in all midi note being recorded to early and/or randomly out time, that's when I switched to Mac, which has worked OK (besides slow Sibelius performance due to limitations in OSX graphics-API).


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## NYC Composer (Oct 6, 2013)

I didn't switch to PC, and now after reading this thread, I'm sad. All the other, smarter kids did it. Now I'm never going to be able to write music again, and all because I have the wrong computer. :(


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## charlieclouser (Oct 6, 2013)

I don't have a huge circle of friends, but the ten or so guys I talk to regularly all still use Mac. I don't personally know anyone who has switched, but most of my friends are Logic guys.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 6, 2013)

NYC Composer @ Sun Oct 06 said:


> I didn't switch to PC, and now after reading this thread, I'm sad. All the other, smarter kids did it. Now I'm never going to be able to write music again, and all because I have the wrong computer. :(



No one is saying that.Hell, you are such a good arranger you could make great music with an Atari and a Proteus Orchestral Plus (and probably did. 

What we _are_ saying is that a comparably priced PC set up properly for audio work will blow a comparably priced or even considerably more expensive Mac out of the water, and as the owner of both, I have to say it simply is true. I wish it weren't, but it is.

I also strongly suspect that OSX itself is less well suited for audio work than Windows 7 as a friend of mine has Parallels on his Mac and when he boots into Windows, he says Cubase's performance ands Kontakt's performance is better. 

OSX Mavericks has a new system of memory compression and I am hoping that helps with that issue.


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## germancomponist (Oct 6, 2013)

NYC Composer @ Mon Oct 07 said:


> I didn't switch to PC, and now after reading this thread, I'm sad. All the other, smarter kids did it. Now I'm never going to be able to write music again, and all because I have the wrong computer. :(



Let's make a bet: In the coming years, you'll use a PC!


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 6, 2013)

charlieclouser @ Sun Oct 06 said:


> I don't have a huge circle of friends, but the ten or so guys I talk to regularly all still use Mac. I don't personally know anyone who has switched, but most of my friends are Logic guys.



As am I, which is why my primary machine will remain a Mac. But if I were not........


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## jamwerks (Oct 6, 2013)

The question isn't if, it's when.

People, (and studios) are of course still using their older Mac Pro's. We'll see in a couple of years when it's time to change machines, how many opt for the Mac Can Prosumer bundle (that's the Mac Can + the $2K in expansion boxes and various connectors you'll need). _-)


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## 5Lives (Oct 6, 2013)

Well, if I like Cubase better than Logic, sounds like there is a newly popular path.

I'm impressed with just how powerful my Mac Pro 3,1 is though (from 2009). In benchmarks with the new Macbook Pros and iMacs and Mac Minis, it still is up at the top.


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## olajideparis (Oct 6, 2013)

I've been an apple user for most of my life, my very first experience with computers was on the apple 2c in the 80's in elementary school. I have used apple computers exclusively in my career as musician running Logic Pro as my main DAW for the last 7 years. Towards the end of 2011 I started to get curious about both Cubase and Windows. I did my research on Cubase and was very impressed but wanted to wait to see what Logic would do with X, so I waited. As soon as Logic Pro X was released my decision was made, it was on to Cubase. 

While there are a number of features that will appeal to certain users more than others, it's my opinion that Cubase is many times more forward thinking than Logic. It is also much better organized and feature-packed program than Logic Pro...it is not even close, and I say this as a Logic Power user who has read both of Jay Asher's books (and many others) on Logic Pro. Steinberg is really pushing the envelope in terms of what is possible with music production tools and that is the kind of company I feel comfortable counting on to provide me with the best tools for my job as a professional composer. Besides that the hardware/software integration that is possible with the steinberg interfaces and hardware controllers (I have the UR22 and 3 CMCs; CH,TP,QC), is simply amazing. Despite all the research I did and hours of tutorials I watched (highly recommend macprovideo.com) before making the transition, I am still amazed at how many new things there are to learn and how deep and well thought out this program is. 

As for apple computers, I'd always entertained the idea of getting a slave PC but once I decided to use Cubase as my main DAW a Windows 7 based system started to make more sense and when i decided to buy a couple of Play based Hollywood series libraries it was a done deal. The new PC I am building is costing me about 2.5 grand and will geekbench score above the current generation of 12 core mac pros.

The mac to pc migration isn't just happening with musicians, the world of video post is also starting to move away from apple, see for yourself. http://www.studiodaily.com/2013/01/vide ... e-mac-pro/

In any case, I am a little bit terrified of Windows but clearly people are able to get their work done in Windows and I am starting to get excited about the amount of flexibility it offers. In the end these are all tools and that's all. It's not like I can't get my work done on an apple computer with Logic Pro. I CAN and DID for years, but I can probably get it done cheaper and faster and working with a combination of Cubase and Windows and THAT for me is the bottom line.


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## 5Lives (Oct 6, 2013)

Great post! I have recently gotten Cubase 7 - and after trying it many times previously, I've actually been fully impressed now unlike before.

I bought my Mac Pro used in 2011 for about $2.5k - amazing they still retained such value. I'm sure I could sell it for at least $1k even now. I do wonder if PCs hold the same value - or if not, if they are at least a little more easily upgraded / future proofed (I've built PCs before which is why I say this - easy to pop in a new motherboard / CPU, which isn't the case with Mac).


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## NYC Composer (Oct 6, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Oct 06 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sun Oct 06 said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't switch to PC, and now after reading this thread, I'm sad. All the other, smarter kids did it. Now I'm never going to be able to write music again, and all because I have the wrong computer. :(
> ...



Nice of you to say. My point is that the Mac vs PC war is stupid non pareil. Pro Mac, anti-Mac , jeez. Go write something!

In point of fact, I recommend PCs to my young musician friends because there is generally more bang for the buck- but I've never heard an algorithmic piece of music I loved, so my damn computer hasn't written a single note for me. I tried beating it with a stick, but nada.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 6, 2013)

I am not pro Mac, anti Mac, pro PC, anti PC, I am pro factual information. That is what i provided.

What people choose to do or not do with that info is their personal choice that I have no stake in.


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## 5Lives (Oct 6, 2013)

To be clear, this isn't about a "Mac vs PC war". They are both great. This is about an observation that a few years ago a lot of musicians were primarily using Macs - it was quite ingrained in that community. However, I've noticed that recently PCs have had a bit of resurgence in that segment of the market. Just something I found interesting and wanted to see if others had noticed the same thing.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 6, 2013)

I know, Jay. My statement wasn't directed at you. Neither of them, actually.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 6, 2013)

NYC Composer @ Sun Oct 06 said:


> I know, Jay. My statement wasn't directed at you. Neither of them, actually.



OK, good to know.


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## marcotronic (Oct 6, 2013)

I've switched from my Mac Pro to a standard PC two weeks ago and I couldn't be happier  Much more bang for the buck...

Marco


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## lux (Oct 6, 2013)

I've been on a PC for ages now, never felt the need to switch to Mac. After Windows 7 Pro I completely forgot what a blue screen of death is. Such an improvement.


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## davidgary73 (Oct 6, 2013)

I was planning to upgrade my Mac Pro 2007 to a Mac Mini i7 2013 model since the Mac Mini was given pretty high praise but after reading this thread, i'm incline to try out PC. 

Btw, how you guys deal with virus, hangs? No internet on work mashine? And has the BSOD been totally eliminated with Windows 7 Pro upwards for good? 

If this is the way to gain better stability and performance, i would jump ship and what computer specs would you recommend that could out do the current Mac Pros? 

I reckon if i would take the PC path, Cubase 7 would be highly recommended? 

Cheers


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## Ginharbringer (Oct 7, 2013)

davidgary73 @ Mon Oct 07 said:


> Btw, how you guys deal with virus, hangs? No internet on work mashine? And has the BSOD been totally eliminated with Windows 7 Pro upwards for good?



I don't think you have to go as far as not connecting your PC to the internet. Mostly it's about what you shouldn't do, not would you should do. So you shouldn't open suspicious .exe files or download email attachments from random strangers. As a PC guy, I've never had a problem with viruses.

BSODs are rare, and probably more associated with hardware issues. Crashes do happen, just like on any OS.

In general, I think these kinds of things are not reasons to favor one platform over another anymore.


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## kitekrazy (Oct 10, 2013)

Arbee @ Sun Oct 06 said:


> I used a reputable local gaming PC vendor to build my machine up from one of their base specs, couldn't be happier. In my day job *there are still some users who believe they would lose their creative energy if they switched from Mac to a PC * :roll: :lol:
> 
> .



It's a placebo effect. It happens more with software. It also falls in line with if it aint broke don't fix it.

I build my own machines so I'm stuck (sarcasm) with PCs.


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## Chriss Ons (Oct 10, 2013)

davidgary73 @ Mon 07 Oct said:


> Btw, how you guys deal with virus, hangs? No internet on work mashine? And has the BSOD been totally eliminated with Windows 7 Pro upwards for good?



My situation:
-*No* internet use on the DAW (Win7 Pro 64 - Cubase 6) except for authorization purposes, and there's NO software on it that is not for music production. 
-Notebook (Win 7 64 Home - Cubase AI) : used for everything else and sometimes for sketching in Finale, doing remote recording, auditioning VI's etc. 

I have never, in the 4 years I'm using Win7/64, had a BSOD or the kind of system crash which caused me to lose work or which had an impact on system stability. (The only serious problem I've ever had was with the Windows 7 Updates-module - but this was back in 2010 when the OS was still relatively new.)
I rarely experience any Cubase crashes, but when I do, 90% of the time it has to do with running an older, bridged VST or something.

Now I realize that, to a certain degree and judging from some of the horror stories I read, there's _always_ a bit of luck involved - so the best you can do is attempt to minimize that factor. My two cents: do not buy an off the shelf machine to use as a DAW. Choose quality components/brands, updated drivers, and don't underspec your build for what it is you're trying to do. Use a separate notebook or tablet for non-music production usage. Those things do not "rule out" but certainly diminish your chances of spending more time configuring/troubleshooting your DAW's "system-specific issues" rather than actually writing/producing music with it.


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## TGV (Oct 11, 2013)

I'm a happy Mac user, but ... I'm a programmer (software architect, whatever). I've been programming on macs for 25 years now, and as a generic programming environment, it's the best: it has a decent GUI, Apple developers usually stick by the design guidelines, and at the same time, you're always just a click away from the command line. It runs Word, Excel, Logic, and all Unix/Linux stuff (although X11 is a pain). I've also tried this on PCs (mingw32, and others), but it was always cumbersome.

Mac hardware is also pretty good. I have only ever had one significant problem, which resulted in (free) replacement, and I've used some 10 to 12 machines by now (both private and at work). My wife's Windows laptops on the other hand ...

So, in that respect, I'm a happy Apple user. Yes, it costs more, but one of my colleagues recently bought a snazzy Samsung laptop (thin, SSD, etc), and it was more expensive than a Macbook Air.

Making music with macs has always been a pleasure, even though I've never enjoyed the stability of Cubase as a platform (Opcode came and went, Emagic came and went, ...).

However, I also feel that Apple is slowly slipping to the big customer market, and that will most likely mean closing down (sandboxed plugins, etc.), and less "pro" features and development. Once that starts, it might well mean switching to PC for me as well.


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