# Vengeful Cello by Karoryfer Samples out now



## DSmolken (Aug 19, 2019)

Vengeful Cello


A cello sample library full of strange, wild and often aggressive sounds. It covers everything from warm sul tasto sustains to scratchy colle, harmonics recorded with the fingering slipping, and pizzicato performed like a jazz bassist. Also included are an emulated section of three celli...



shop.karoryfer.com





A whole lot of articulations, from the weird and noisy to the normal, packed into a compact cello library. Plus bonus transposition-trick cello section and a synth with looped bits of cello notes for oscillators. $19 until Sept 1, then $59. Over 4000 samples and 1.2 GB.

Walkthrough:



Demo:



For those of you who have our free cello from a few years ago, yeah, this is recorded with the same cellist and same cello, but a whole lot more content.


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## DSmolken (Aug 25, 2019)

Another demo, more hybridy with Vengeful Cello doing synth arps and pads, and cello stuff.



Also, updated this the day after it was released with a choice of two GUIs - the srs looking one in the walkthrough above, and the original cute pixel one. And intro pricing ends September 1st.


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## Crowe (Aug 25, 2019)

Wow. This is really interesting.


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## TGV (Aug 25, 2019)

Nice one.


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## fiestared (Aug 25, 2019)

DSmolken said:


> Vengeful Cello
> 
> 
> A cello sample library full of strange, wild and often aggressive sounds. It covers everything from warm sul tasto sustains to scratchy colle, harmonics recorded with the fingering slipping, and pizzicato performed like a jazz bassist. Also included are an emulated section of three celli...
> ...



Great lib ! Machine gun speaking is a style and you're good


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## DSmolken (Aug 25, 2019)

fiestared said:


> Great lib ! Machine gun speaking is a style and you're good


Haha, well... I do talk pretty rapid-fire. I try to get to the point, and not spend a lot of time blabbering between musical examples. Sometimes I might take respect for the viewers' time a little too far, though.


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## fiestared (Aug 25, 2019)

DSmolken said:


> Haha, well... I do talk pretty rapid-fire. I try to get to the point, and not spend a lot of time blabbering between musical examples. Sometimes I might take respect for the viewers' time a little too far, though.


Only one afternoon for sampling all that, really ? by the way what is the name of this talented musician who excels so fast in the shorts, the ricochets, the collés and the jetés...


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## DSmolken (Aug 25, 2019)

Yeah, about five, five and a half hours. That's one reason why there are so many varieties of shorts - it takes a lot less time to record shorts than longs. And the cellist's name is Kamila Borowiak. Here's one quartet she's been playing with.


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## fiestared (Aug 26, 2019)

DSmolken said:


> Yeah, about five, five and a half hours. That's one reason why there are so many varieties of shorts - it takes a lot less time to record shorts than longs. And the cellist's name is Kamila Borowiak. Here's one quartet she's been playing with.



Refreshing, thank you for this very "feminine moment"...


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## DSmolken (Aug 30, 2019)

Last weekend of intro pricing - Monday morning the price goes up to $59.

Sales are better than any of our libraries at the same point so far, though Secret Agent Guitar wasn't that far behind. So I'm already starting to practice tremolo bowing so I can make a matching bass library someday. I've never had to play tremolo on a gig, so I never really practiced it and am pretty terrible at it, but as multiple people have said they really like the tremolos here, I'm gonna have to get to work. But colle and jete - that will be no problem at all!


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## Crowe (Aug 31, 2019)

I bought it and have been getting used to it. I experience an entirely different kind of inspiration. This is some fantastic stuff man.


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## DSmolken (Aug 31, 2019)

Thanks. I aim for different, but a playable and controllable kind of different.


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## Wally Garten (Oct 6, 2019)

Not trying to steal your thunder if you're going to post this in Commercial Announcement later, but... you've also got an interesting little children's choir out now. Downloaded and using right now. Fun stuff!


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## DSmolken (Oct 6, 2019)

Wally Garten said:


> Not trying to steal your thunder if you're going to post this in Commercial Announcement later, but... you've also got an interesting little children's choir out now. Downloaded and using right now. Fun stuff!


I will, I will. Just waiting for a very nice demo to get finished.


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## Diablo IV (Oct 7, 2019)

Not making it for Kontakt is shooting yourself in the foot. Sorry. I feel that way. Sounds great.


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## damstraversaz (Oct 7, 2019)

Diablo3 said:


> Not making it for Kontakt is shooting yourself in the foot. Sorry. I feel that way. Sounds great.


I'm disagree. There is a lot of people who are using sforzando, or don't have enough money for buying the full version of kontakt (especially my students for exemple).
The users can install Sforzando easily, as it's free and really no intrusive ( no Challenge/reponse). The sforzando player is very light too on cpu and memory ressource ( with no sample loaded), use DFD and comes from a great developer.


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## Crowe (Oct 7, 2019)

Diablo3 said:


> Not making it for Kontakt is shooting yourself in the foot. Sorry. I feel that way. Sounds great.



I see no reason whatsoever why this would be true.

VCello in Sforzando works great.


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## Diablo IV (Oct 7, 2019)

I stand my ground, use sforzando too, I am not against it. But 
*Karoryfer *would prob get more sales selling Kontakt libs or instruments too.
I am not buying his stuff because of this.


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## Crowe (Oct 7, 2019)

Diablo3 said:


> I stand my ground, use sforzando too, I am not against it. But
> *Karoryfer *would prob get more sales selling Kontakt libs or instruments too.
> I am not buying his stuff because of this.



I've read this multiple times and it still makes no sense. The only reason Karoryfer would make more sales by rebuilding the plugin in Kontakt would be because of senselessly obstinate potential customers who don't want to use a perfectly suitable, free sampler.

You use Sforzando. You are not against it. So why?


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## M0rdechai (Oct 7, 2019)

I understand the sentiment.
Compare it to browsers; I, for example use Chrome 99% of the time.
If there was.. lets say a forum, like VI-control for example that could for some reason only be used in Firefox, I would not visit it... even though it is a perfectly good and free browser..
I would look for an alternative that I can use in my prefered browser.

The example doesnt technically make sence, but it's to make a point...

The fact that I use something 99% of the time means that I will look for things I can use with that. even if the alternative is perfectly good and free.

I search for NKS ready libs or spectrasonics... don't need to, don't have to, but I do prefer it...


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## Crowe (Oct 7, 2019)

It's unbelievable to me how spoiled humans have become. If a website doesn't work correctly in Chrome, I will use firefox. If I can't view it on my phone, I will use my PC. If my favorite flavor icecream isn't in stock, I will get something else.

As a developer, this makes me so, so mad. Spoiled people deserve nothing. Think in solutions, not in problems.


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## M0rdechai (Oct 7, 2019)

You have the option to chose, so why is it 'being spoiled' if you do?

Here is food A or food B, which one will you eat?
"I prefer food A"

You prefer!!?? you are so spoiled! Spoiled people deserve nothing!!


ok... it's your sales. 
As a consumer I have the options, whether you like it or not


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## DSmolken (Oct 7, 2019)

I'm actually planning to try a Kontakt version of this to prove to myself that the extra sales are not worth it. I'm pretty sure the time required to make and support the additional version would be better spent working on the next library, but there's one way to be sure sure.

No guarantee I'll make a finished and working Kontakt version that's worth releasing, but I do plan to try, now that the thing-I-should-really-start-a-new-thread-about-but-a-nice-demo-should-be-finished-today is released.


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## Crowe (Oct 7, 2019)

M0rdechai said:


> You have the option to chose, so why is it 'being spoiled' if you do?
> 
> Here is food A or food B, which one will you eat?
> "I prefer food A"
> ...



The point is that you *don't* have the option to choose in any of the cases I mentioned.

If you pay attention, I said nothing about preferences. You can prefer food A. If food A isn't available, crying about how you will never buy food B because it isn't laced with gold is being spoiled. And indeed, spoiled people deserve nothing but starvation.


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## M0rdechai (Oct 7, 2019)

I am actually curious if it would make for a solid investment to put the time in to make a Kontakt version. I do not have information on which amount of the possible market would be catered by this.
I was merely pointing out that I do get that people would look for NKS only.. or something similar..

I don't think listening to market wishes is bad practice. I'm a product owner for an IT company and the last thing I will say when hearing a competitors customer on why yhey don't chose our system is; "They are so spoiled!! they don't deserve our product!!"

All the best to DSmolken with a nice product. Apologies for following up on a derailed subject.


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## Diablo IV (Oct 7, 2019)

DSmolken said:


> I'm actually planning to try a Kontakt version of this to prove to myself that the extra sales are not worth it. I'm pretty sure the time required to make and support the additional version would be better spent working on the next library, but there's one way to be sure sure.
> 
> No guarantee I'll make a finished and working Kontakt version that's worth releasing, but I do plan to try, now that the thing-I-should-really-start-a-new-thread-about-but-a-nice-demo-should-be-finished-today is released.




Mate, you just answered perfectly: It's your business, Kontakt is not worth it. You know what's best for you and at the end of the day is what matters.

On my end, I just wonder if sforzando allows for true legato and other features:
I cannot imagine Embertone's Joshua Bell violin, running with the same features in sforzando, but ... maybe it's possible? Idk.

Cheers.


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## kgdrum (Oct 7, 2019)

While I prefer Kontakt and really have no experience or rational bias against Sforzando(besides the weird
unspellable name).
Last year I purchased Secret Agent Guitar without noticing it wasn't a Kontakt library(I incorrectly tend to assume everything is).
I soon forgot about the purchase ,never downloaded it or installed until a few days ago.
Luckily DSmolken is a really nice guy and resent me the dl file the other night  and I finally installed it and dl'ed the free sforzando player.
Meanwhile I still haven't tried it,lol I'm so used to Kontakt............
But I do think Karoryfer would sell way more product if they were available for both Kontakt and Sforzando,not to mention an easier name to spell than Karoryfer.


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## Dex (Oct 8, 2019)

I'll be honest, I bought it but I'm having a hard time using it because I don't know enough about sfz to edit the keyswitches or midi CC assignments. For ease of use I would have preferred it to be a Kontakt library. Editing CC assignments in Kontakt is a breeze - right click > learn CC. Sforzando has no such capabilities, and in fact as far as I know no reasonably complete sfz spec is published anywhere.

I know the manual says we can email you for help in editing the keyswitches and cc assignments, but would you mind just posting how to do that here? If not, I'll email you


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## DSmolken (Oct 8, 2019)

It's not really hard, SFZ is just a text file and it's mostly a matter of replacing CC100 with CC101 or whatever you want, and then making the changes in the GUI's XML files. In this case, that's a little more complicated because there are 38 patches, but nothing Notepad++ can't quickly fix via its search in folder function. You do have to be careful to not end up with two things on the same CC in the synth instrument, though. So, really, the main complication is, as Mercyful Fate once sang, don't break the synth.

The GUI stuff isn't documented anywhere because while it's just XML, it's specific to Plogue's engine and not part of the open SFZ format. But it's pretty simple... I think it's something like param name="100" that you'd need to change to param name="101".

And, yeah, in Kontakt you can do it from the GUI, and also do things like remap drums live from the GUI - there actually is a Kontakt version of Swirly Drums which Tod made, somewhat in exchange for me making the Sforzando version of SM Drums. From that, my best guess is that both Kontakt and Sforzando will sell about 10-20% more than just Sforzando alone. But having more than one data point would be good. I also want to try HISE sometime, which might be best for freebies.


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## kgdrum (Oct 8, 2019)

DSmolken said:


> From that, my best guess is that both Kontakt and Sforzando will sell about 10-20% more than just Sforzando alone. But having more than one data point would be good.



I think with the popularity of the Kontakt platform you are underestimating how much $$ you are leaving on the table.IMO it will increase your sales way more than 20%.
There's a reason why so many developers embrace NI/Kontakt,warts and all.


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## X-Bassist (Oct 14, 2019)

kgdrum said:


> I think with the popularity of the Kontakt platform you are underestimating how much $$ you are leaving on the table.IMO it will increase your sales way more than 20%.
> There's a reason why so many developers embrace NI/Kontakt,warts and all.


I use many samplers, but I have to agree with this. After using Kontakt for a while this player feels a bit like the yugo of samplers, but for free it’s workable. I don’t mind a bit of difficulty (setting up, figuring out how it works) but for many composers and musicians, they are not so tech minded.

I think you could even add 10 or 20% to the price and it would still sell more than the original, but I’ll be interested to see what you find out (to be fair they should be released at the same time to really see, since the “first adopters” have already jumped in, but I still think this is a good test).

Perhaps you could compare data on how many download the Kontakt version of those that own it already as well. I know I would try to download it the moment it’s released. All the best on your tests, and I really do appreciate you trying to release on a platform that is free for your customers (without dealing with the extra big cost of a Kontakt Player library). Cheers.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Oct 15, 2019)

I have many instruments that aren't in Kontakt, and they are great. The issue of whether you make more money or not is not an issue for me as a consumer. That's your call. 

But solely as a user:


I put all my Kontakt instruments in Quickload. It would be nice to find this library next to my other solo cellos. (Of course I admit I don't see Bohemian cello there now). But Quickload is a one-click convenience. 


While I can layer an Engine or UVI instrument with a Kontakt instrument within a piece, I have to remember to select two tracks in Cubase to make them play together. I can save multis in Kontakt with volume, routing, etc, and come back to them. This instrument, for example, might be very useful layered into a saved multi with another cello.


More and more I am seeing that the light guides from non-NKS Kontakt instruments work with my NI Controller. If I can see the colors in the key switches on my screen, they show up in my keyboard too. A big convenience in playing to be able to see the keyswitches and the playing range right on my keyboard. 


Creating very large Kontakt multis can be useful for setting up VI Pro. 

Inexpensive Sforzando libraries are a great gift for the many musicians who simply can't afford full Kontakt. A lot of these people are just getting started and you are helping them, which is great.

But if you also offered some Kontakt versions of your libraries, people would pay more for them, for the above and other reasons. And you would be helping them too.


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## Soundbed (Mar 26, 2021)

DSmolken said:


> Yeah, about five, five and a half hours. That's one reason why there are so many varieties of shorts - it takes a lot less time to record shorts than longs. And the cellist's name is Kamila Borowiak. Here's one quartet she's been playing with.



Saw the title "Mr Sandman" with the idea of "Vengeful" on my mind, and expected I was going to see a Metallica "Enter Sandman" string quartet cover for some reason!


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## DSmolken (Mar 26, 2021)

Haha, well, this is the old-fashioned, not-so-vengeful Mr. Sandman.

And since this thread got bumped, might as well mention that this just got a big upgrade. Recorded "real" spiccato, ghost spiccato, ghost jete and spectral scrubs, reorganized the patches to be like the other Vengeful strings (which means you can now layer longs, shorts, and one short plus two longs), and built a new more powerful synth-style patch with waveforms from all four Vengeful strings (now that there are four), my old electric upright bass samples, and a kemence.

New walkthrough...



And the cyborg part...



Upgrade's free, I sent out upgrade links about two weeks ago, if you didn't get or or didn't download yet then get in touch and I'll send a new Pulse downloader redemption key, since we moved to that last week also.

Also on sale for $39 until the end of April. That's April 2021, in case this gets bumped in a year and a half again, heh.


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