# My own attempt at "Q-Legato"...



## Alex W (Nov 2, 2005)

Here's the first working prototype of a script I started working on recently in Kontakt2, which emulates VSL style legato, but uses code to trigger existing samples instead of requiring all the individual intervals to be recorded / sampled.

The script is still in very early stages of development, but here is an example of it applied to the EWQLSO solo horn patch.

Standard horn patch:
http://www.alxproductions.com/originalhorn.mp3

And the Legato'd version:
http://www.alxproductions.com/legatohorn.mp3


I'm looking forward to seeing what Q-Legato is like and how this script stacks up.

:wink:


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## Ed (Nov 2, 2005)

doublepost


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## Ed (Nov 2, 2005)

It doesnt work well on close intervals, but for long intervals it works really quite well. 

dont get your hopes up for QLlegato


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## Leon Willett (Nov 2, 2005)

hey, that's really good! What is the script doing exactly?


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## Alex W (Nov 2, 2005)

Ed said:


> It doesnt work well on close intervals...


I agree about the intervals, this is something I'll fix.

Cheers.

Leon: basically, it triggers existing sample information to create that small nuance or "brup" sound which naturally occurs between notes played in a live legato recording.


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## José Herring (Nov 2, 2005)

Keep working Alex. It's on it's way and it would be good to have an alternative to the qlegato.

Jose


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 2, 2005)

Bigger intervals sounds cool Alex. Shorter intervals a bit loose. Since its a script I wonder if it can be applied to triads too? Interesting work you're doing there - keep at it man, nice work so far.


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## Lpp (Nov 2, 2005)

Alex, this is really cool stuff. I enjoy it as is. I don?t find the close intervals too loose, because close intervals in reality haven?t got a recognizable slur. It connects the close notes well and that?s, what it?s supposed to be doing. 

Perhaps you can make this parameter adjustable, so that one can decide, how intervals less than a third should be treated.

I appreciate your efforts and I really hope, this one makes it to us, the public :D 

YUMMY.... :wink:


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## Waywyn (Nov 3, 2005)

yay alex,

keep on developing 

the only criticism i have, somestimes the horn sounds a little bit like bowed.
i cannot explain really but it sounds sometimes that the horn is not blown in intervals but behaves like a string bow or so.

i hope you understand what i mean.


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## Ed (Nov 3, 2005)

Lpp said:


> . I don?t find the close intervals too loose, :



I dont know how you define loose, but to me it sounds like glide picthing on synths, but as I say the larger intervals work really really well imo!


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## handz (Nov 3, 2005)

Alex that is Awesome! I like it as it is now - bigger intervals are really sweet. I want to try it


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## Lpp (Nov 3, 2005)

Hehe, I actually misinterpreted "loose". I thought you mean, that they should be stronger in the sense of being more audible. 

That?s what eventually comes out, when germans read english texts...


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## Alex W (Nov 3, 2005)

Thanks 4 the feedback, here's some solo trumpet (QLSO).

http://www.alxproductions.com/solotptlegato.mp3


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## Niah (Nov 3, 2005)

Very realistic Alex!


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## handz (Nov 3, 2005)

Greaaaat! Dont torment us, give us script for try :twisted: I cant wait to hear strings :shock:


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## dogforester (Nov 3, 2005)

cool stuff alex, is the french horn playing something from medal of honour(or something like that) ?


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## Alex W (Nov 3, 2005)

handz said:


> Greaaaat! Dont torment us, give us script for try :twisted: I cant wait to hear strings :shock:



Oh... sorry guys, it's not really in any releasable form just yet. It's not simple to get it up 'n running either, and I'd have to write out a fairly hefty tutorial. When it's at a stage when I can actually release it for easy public use, I'll consider it, but I can't promise anything. I've spent many many many hours of work on this so far and was posting here mainly for constructive criticism, and also just for interests sake. I didn't expect ppl to want it so much, so it really wasn't my intention to "rub anyone's face in it" so to speak, but I'm honoured that you think it sounds good.


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## choc0thrax (Nov 3, 2005)

Alex W said:


> I didn't expect ppl to want it so much, so it really wasn't my intention to "rub anyone's face in it" so to speak, but I'm honoured that you think it sounds good.



Oh don't lie, you know that's exactly why you posted it!...plus the hope of east west hiring you. 8)


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## handz (Nov 3, 2005)

Alex, I think it is really really good, I want it It is huge improvement for the QLSO.


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## Leandro Gardini (Nov 3, 2005)

Amazing!!!

Alex , are you going to share these scripts or not???


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## Alex W (Nov 3, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> Alex W said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't expect ppl to want it so much, so it really wasn't my intention to "rub anyone's face in it" so to speak, but I'm honoured that you think it sounds good.
> ...



hehe... yeah well... I guess there's an element of truth in that I admit, and hey - I've just spent the last month or so working on it, on and off. Maybe you're more than 1% right there dude, and I think I'll end up releasing it.

I also think I'd prefer to do it on a one to one basis though. For example, anyone who wants it can contact me personally on msn or something, I dunno...


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## Waywyn (Nov 4, 2005)

alex, are you able to program these script to leave space or room for having alternate legato samples by hitting a trigger button? (similar to vsl) ...

this sounds much better but when you play the same notes twice it really sounds very machine gun like.

oh, ... and don't get me wrong guys but i find it a bit (a bit ... just a little bit) rude to ask somebody who spend so many hours or days by developing something like this and then just want it. i mean it's on alex if he releases it for free but imagine it the other way round. would you share something just like this, you invest some really good amount of time in?


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## Alex W (Nov 4, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> alex, are you able to program these script to leave space or room for having alternate legato samples by hitting a trigger button? (similar to vsl) ...
> 
> this sounds much better but when you play the same notes twice it really sounds very machine gun like.
> 
> oh, ... and don't get me wrong guys but i find it a bit (a bit ... just a little bit) rude to ask somebody who spend so many hours or days by developing something like this and then just want it. i mean it's on alex if he releases it for free but imagine it the other way round. would you share something just like this, you invest some really good amount of time in?



Thanks dude. 


I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. Are you talking about alternate versions of the sustained notes or are you referring to the actual legato transitional sound itself?


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## Waywyn (Nov 4, 2005)

ah sorry, i ment the legato notes only. the transitions sound cool, but when you repeat two same notes (with a gap between) it sounds a little bit artificial.


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## Alex W (Nov 4, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> ah sorry, i ment the legato notes only. the transitions sound cool, but when you repeat two same notes (with a gap between) it sounds a little bit artificial.



Oh, yeah alternating samples can be used no problem. The QLSO solo trumpet only has 1 version of each sustained note so it's not really possible with that, but there are other ways to avoid the machine gun effect on sustained notes. One method I've recently discovered that works is using a K2 "Flexible envelope", and using a controller (I recommend velocity) to modulate solely the attack volume level (not attack time). I've found that giving special attention and variation to this value throughout a phrase works very well. I didn't get around to that for the sake of the demo mp3, however.

I'm now working on a derrivative of this script for use with a string section legato. Results are sounding cool so far, but I've hit what seems to be a bug in the K2 scripting engine. I'll update when there's something worth listening to. Maybe I'll try woodwinds next.

Peace.


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## Andy B (Nov 4, 2005)

Hi Alex,

I think the script's sounding really promising. Can I ask whether it's running in DFD mode or not?

Thanks,

Andy.


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## Alex W (Nov 4, 2005)

Hi Andy, thanks.

I'm running in sampler mode, although it can be run in both modes (makes no difference)


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## Alex W (Nov 4, 2005)

dogforester said:


> cool stuff alex, is the french horn playing something from medal of honour(or something like that) ?



Sorry, I missed this message before, but to answer your question, yes! Cool that you noticed 8) 
Michael Giachinno's music! (in other words, awesome)


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## Andy B (Nov 4, 2005)

Alex W said:


> Hi Andy, thanks.
> 
> I'm running in sampler mode, although it can be run in both modes (makes no difference)



Thanks Alex - the reason I asked is because I'm assuming that the script uses 'sample offset' as one feature, which I thought could only run in sample mode?


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## Alex W (Nov 4, 2005)

Andy B said:


> Alex W said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Andy, thanks.
> ...



Yeah you're right it doesn't work in DFD. Pretty annoying really, hopefully NI will bring out an update which allows this. I guess the only reason I can think that they'd disable it for this mode is that it might take up some more memory.


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## handz (Nov 4, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> oh, ... and don't get me wrong guys but i find it a bit (a bit ... just a little bit) rude to ask somebody who spend so many hours or days by developing something like this and then just want it. i mean it's on alex if he releases it for free but imagine it the other way round. would you share something just like this, you invest some really good amount of time in?




Hmm... I dont think it is that rude at all. It depends on what are Alex?s plans with it - If Alex will want it to share with us, or keep it for his own needs... I really apreciate work he done, as much I apreciate work of someone who written VSL K2 Legato script and give it to us for using... 

Question is, how much good Qlegato will be...

If it will be worst Im ready to buy Alex few bears for that scriopt



Alex: "Results are sounding cool so far" So pleaaase....a little betatest mp3


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## Leandro Gardini (Nov 4, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> alex, are you able to program these script to leave space or room for having alternate legato samples by hitting a trigger button? (similar to vsl) ...
> 
> this sounds much better but when you play the same notes twice it really sounds very machine gun like.
> 
> oh, ... and don't get me wrong guys but i find it a bit (a bit ... just a little bit) rude to ask somebody who spend so many hours or days by developing something like this and then just want it. i mean it's on alex if he releases it for free but imagine it the other way round. would you share something just like this, you invest some really good amount of time in?


I totally agree but I don?t think this is kind of rude attitude...asking never hurts...
...if Alex want to charge it it?s fine for me , of course sometime later the script will be free for the public , but at least he made something for his own hard work!!!
...I agree that


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## Alex W (Nov 4, 2005)

http://www.alxproductions.com/3clarinetslegato.mp3

made some adjustments and tried it on a multiple instruments patch. This is the qlso "3 clarinets dxf" patch

edit: woops there was a typo


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## Ed (Nov 4, 2005)

broken link


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## Alex W (Nov 4, 2005)

fixed


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 4, 2005)

Nice! Man this script is getting better and better Alex - nice job (and one more reason to get K2.)


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## Ed (Nov 4, 2005)

better than the actual QL Legato

*MUCH MUCH *better.

You should contact Doug and Nick and see what they say


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## Rodney Glenn (Nov 5, 2005)

Very interesting. When I first saw the scripting function for K2 my first notion was to experiment with simulating a more "true" legato sound without using full sampled transitions as VSL does, but I never got around to it.

Now that Alex did just that, I must say it shows promise and is probably well worth investigating further. It can certainly be a nice sample economic alternative and perhaps one that could be applied to many different libraries.

After listening to the many new QLegato demos and judging from the number of different persons involved, I also agree that what Alex produced shows potential for a more convincing legato sound than the actual QLegato (to my ears, QLegato did not sound much like actual legato).

Anyways, IMO this is an excellent proof of concept, and I think Alex has showed that there is potential here. What he decides to do with this script of his is of course up to him. Regardless, I think we'll see many variations and types of "sample-economic-legato" scripts in the future.

Alex, it would be interesting to hear a bit more details about how you went about doing this (exactly what samples you trigger in relation to the starting sample and what parts of the samples you use for the transition sound etc), that is if you feel like it of course. 

R


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## handz (Nov 5, 2005)

Very nice... I listening to XP demos right now...Your legato is really much much much better!


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## Dr.Quest (Nov 5, 2005)

This definitely sounds good. It's different from Qlegato and the VSL sound. All have their places. Alex, you should sell the script. I would buy it if it is CPU efficient. Personally I like the sound of this as well as the Qlegato.
Nice work.
J 8)


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## José Herring (Nov 5, 2005)

Nice Alex. It really adds a lot. I hope you make this script available. If not then can you give us tips on how to program the script.

Jose


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## lux (Nov 5, 2005)

yes Alex, this is really great sounding. If you decide to sell the script, I will get it for sure.


Luca


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 5, 2005)

Yes Alex, I wish to buy this too once you're ready.


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## Hardy Heern (Nov 6, 2005)

Brilliant job so far Alex! French horn is one of my very favourite sounds too!  Update, just got to the other demos....also impressive!

I'm impressed with what is possible with these scripts. The future's looking bright, thanks to the efforts of folk such as yourself. I'm not an expert but it seems to me that you've gone a long way towards the final release.

Congratulations.

Frank


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## Alex W (Nov 26, 2005)

Hey dudes, sorry for such a delayed response I've been very busy lately. I've done a bit more work on this script, although I'm waiting for an update for Kontakt to iron out some annoying bugs. There's also another bloke I know who's working on some scripts - he's hit the same bugs and has now sent an email to NI, hopefully they'll get around to fixing them. Only time will tell whether or not I can package this as something releasable. There are also likely some copyright issues involved that I'll have to look into if I want to be able to actually sell this thing.


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## TheoKrueger (Nov 28, 2005)

Are you a horn specialist or what? 

Your script sounds amazing Alex! I've been trying some other legato scripts lately as well, but this one sounds very musical and realistic, very good for orchestral work. I can't understand what you've done or how the pitching works but i love the result. 

Hope to see this released/on sale soon. Good work!


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## IFM (Dec 16, 2005)

I just wanted to give this a bump because I think this is a brilliant idea. I can't wait for my KH library to arrive so I can give it a try. Also, have you done any more work to it?
Chris


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## Alex W (Dec 17, 2005)

cheers, yeah I have dude but check my above post


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## IFM (Dec 17, 2005)

Alex W said:


> cheers, yeah I have dude but check my above post



Cool. Hopefully NI will finally release the update by XMAS.
Chris


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## Frederick Russ (Dec 17, 2005)

Dragonwind said:


> Alex W said:
> 
> 
> > cheers, yeah I have dude but check my above post
> ...



Which may hopefully open your script up to those waiting in line to purchase it Alex


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## Markleford (Dec 19, 2005)

Dragonwind said:


> Cool. Hopefully NI will finally release the update by XMAS.


Or, at the very least, in time for a press-release around NAMM time. 

- m


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## Bernard Asselin (Dec 19, 2005)

Hey Alex ! That's very promising. I reconsider seriously my near investment on the VI WW. The result from your script is too exciting. 

In the French Horn example, did you took the melodic line from Medal Of Honour? I guess !


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## Hannes_F (Aug 14, 2007)

Alex W,

is your script still in the making?

Hannes


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