# NEW POLL: Which grand piano libraries do you currently use? (Upright pianos coming in separate poll)



## dhowarthmusic (Aug 10, 2018)

After last years string library poll I though it would be interesting to see which are the most popular piano libraries being used out there at the moment. I tried to list all the virtual grand pianos that I could find but I may have missed some. I will have a separate poll coming for uprights and sound design pianos.


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## Motr3b (Aug 10, 2018)

NI the maverick, so far so good, but i'm planning to get Bechstein Digital Grand soon.


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## shawnsingh (Aug 10, 2018)

Have only used EWQL pianos. Actually that was my very first VST ever. Here's a EWQL Bosendorfer track I made 6 years ago -


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## CGR (Aug 11, 2018)

shawnsingh said:


> Have only used EWQL pianos. Actually that was my very first VST ever. Here's a EWQL Bosendorfer track I made 6 years ago -



Impressive music & playing Shawn! The EWQL Bosie sounds great.
I saw this track was from 2013 - are you still writing, playing & producing music?


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 11, 2018)

Also TruePianos


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## JPComposer (Aug 11, 2018)

Motr3b said:


> NI the maverick, so far so good, but i'm planning to get Bechstein Digital Grand soon.



I would wait for the outcome of this vote before you buy the Bechstein. I was not impressed with it. It is very clinical. To me the tone isn't good and the mic positions too limited. They make great pianos but I think their sampling leaves something to be desired. There are some great musicians on here that rate it highly though. So, again, it comes down to personal taste.

For me the Imperfect Samples pianos feel very 'alive', but they are definitely imperfect. I'm surprised to see the NI pianos doing so well here. I'll have to dig out my old Komplete and try them.


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## keepitsimple (Aug 11, 2018)

I've owned 56 pianos from the poll and the VSL CFX is the *only* piano i use now.


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 11, 2018)

Motr3b said:


> NI the maverick, so far so good, but i'm planning to get Bechstein Digital Grand soon.



I do like that one, plus the Gentleman from NI (I'd like to call attention to the Cinematic preset in Giant, though the piano isn't so great imo). GPO Steinway has its uses as well imo.

After I bought Garritan CFX all the other piano libraries were just good for layering...and we all know how often we layer our good piano vsts with the not-anywhere-near-as-good, right? lol! 

Anyhoo, if you love piano and you don't have CFX, it is a total steal for the price (I would have paid 500 US, easy, for it). Don't even hesitate, the inspiration level skyrocked for me upon purchase (and I don't even like piano that much).


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## R. Soul (Aug 11, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> I've owned 56 pianos from the poll and the VSL CFX is the *only* piano i use now.


56 eh.... You're sure keeping it simple


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## keepitsimple (Aug 11, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> 56 eh.... You're sure keeping it simple


It was all for the quest to keep it simple and find the one and stick with it


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## OleJoergensen (Aug 11, 2018)

shawnsingh said:


> Have only used EWQL pianos. Actually that was my very first VST ever. Here's a EWQL Bosendorfer track I made 6 years ago -



Lovely playing, composition and sound!
I use also East West Bösendorfer and Steinway and like the sound but after I bought Embertone Steinway Im not sure I will use other then Embertone.
Anyway, your sound of the Bösendorfer is really rich. Did you use compression, E.Q.?
Is it possible to buy the score for your composition somewhere?


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## Nao Gam (Aug 11, 2018)

Can we add Soundiron's montclarion?


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## Knomes (Aug 11, 2018)

JPComposer said:


> I'm surprised to see the NI pianos doing so well here. I'll have to dig out my old Komplete and try them.



I think you have to consider that they come inside the Komplete Package so that a lot of people own them even if they would not have bought them


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## SchnookyPants (Aug 11, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> I've owned 56 pianos from the poll and the VSL CFX is the *only* piano i use now.



That's, like $15,000+ just for the piano movers!


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## keepitsimple (Aug 11, 2018)

SchnookyPants said:


> That's, like $15,000+ just for the piano movers!


Not that much but for sure up there in the early thousands $. You have to remember that some of them i bought as bundles (Pianoteq Standard, VI Labs Truekeys etc...). Not to mention sales etc... For examples i got the Ravenscroft last year during Black Friday 50% and got VI Labs True keys during the vstbuzz deal that happened not too long ago.


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## CT (Aug 11, 2018)

SC Hammersmith for heavy lifting, and some Spitfire Labs/freebie pianos for a more moody sound. I'll probably get their Felt Piano at some point. I'd love a Schimmel full grand in VI form.


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## shawnsingh (Aug 11, 2018)

I'm likely to buy VSL Synchron some time soon, too. Guy Bacos's demos had a tone I really liked, very hard to verbalize what I liked about it, some kind of "live presence" in the string harmonics (or maybe early reflections?) that I think would be very hard to achieve just by mixing alone.



CGR said:


> I saw this track was from 2013 - are you still writing, playing & producing music?





OleJoergensen said:


> Anyway, your sound of the Bösendorfer is really rich. Did you use compression, E.Q.?
> Is it possible to buy the score for your composition somewhere?



Hey, thanks to both of you for listening! I still do make music, but it's a side gig and life is getting increasingly busy. I do have in mind a piano album coming soon after my current music project (you can search online for "clicker heroes 2 soundtrack", which is my current project, still adding more tracks for several months more). Also full disclosure I have to say my performance skills are not that good - I have to splice many takes and do a ton of MIDI corrections every time. I might have been good enough 15 years ago, but not these days...

I did use EQ to deepen the bass and also used convolution reverb on this Bosendorfer. If you're interested I can dig out the project file and give you all the gritty details. And that's a great idea about transcribing it - unfortunately I haven't done that yet. Putting it on the TODO list...


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## SchnookyPants (Aug 11, 2018)

Polkasound said:


> ..... Oh, and the Polkasound 1917 Grand Chick.



Wouldn't she be at least a great, great Grand Chick by now?


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## dhowarthmusic (Aug 11, 2018)

Nao Gam said:


> Can we add Soundiron's montclarion?


I just added this piano to the poll. If you have it you can update your vote now. I had not heard of this piano. Thanks!


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## Geoff Grace (Aug 11, 2018)

Production Voices Production Grand 2 Platinum is the best sampled piano I've ever laid my hands on. My only complaint is that it's too bright for some applications, but that's due to the type of piano sampled—a Yamaha C7—rather than Production Voices' sampling abilities.

As a result of my high-level of satisfaction, I'm not eager to buy another sampled grand—save for the fact that I will occasionally need one that's less bright. At that point in time, Production Voices' new Concert Grand Platinum will be at the top of my list.

Best,

Geoff


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 11, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> Production Voices Production Grand 2 Platinum is the best sampled piano I've ever laid my hands on. My only complaint is that it's too bright for some applications, but that's due to the type of piano sampled—a Yamaha C7—rather than Production Voices' sampling abilities.
> 
> As a result of my high-level of satisfaction, I'm not eager to buy another sampled grand—save for the fact that I will occasionally need one that's less bright. At that point in time, Production Voices' new Concert Grand Platinum will be at the top of my list.
> 
> ...



This sounds interesting! Even after my Garritan Revelation.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 11, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> Production Voices Production Grand 2 Platinum is the best sampled piano I've ever laid my hands on. My only complaint is that it's too bright for some applications, but that's due to the type of piano sampled—a Yamaha C7—rather than Production Voices' sampling abilities.
> 
> As a result of my high-level of satisfaction, I'm not eager to buy another sampled grand—save for the fact that I will occasionally need one that's less bright. At that point in time, Production Voices' new Concert Grand Platinum will be at the top of my list.
> 
> ...



Too bright is better then not bright enough of you have to choose, you can use eq


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## dzilizzi (Aug 11, 2018)

What is really funny is that I have a lot of pianos, some expensive, some not, and yet when I need a quick piano I tend to grab Addictive Keys studio grand or Sonnivox's Eighty-eight. Both have low CPU, load fast and still sound great in a mix. Ravenscroft tends to be my next go to. 

As an aside, I just got the PV Concert Grand and Embertone's Walker, bot sound great, but they do take a while to load. I ordered an SSD, hopefully it will help.


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## dhowarthmusic (Aug 11, 2018)

Polkasound said:


> In addition to a few pianos above, I also use...
> 
> NI Berlin Grand
> NI New York Concert Grand
> NI Vienna Grand


I left these off the list as they are not currently available anymore but thanks for mentioning them.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 11, 2018)

I think there are a lot of different reason why people need a good piano, and for that reason some of the ones that may not actually be perhaps the most playable, yet still have a certain distinctive sound can be very useful. In all the years I've been following these kinds of threads, I always see so much conflicting information, it becomes very subjective and very dependent on what people need it for. For example, I now have a grand piano in my living room that plays and sounds great, so I no longer need a super playable sampled piano in order to sit at a piano and "create". I get far more inspiration sitting at my Mason&Hamlin then I do from any digital piano period...even though the digital pianos would in fact sound lot better in a recording session most likely. I intend to try to record my M&H after the hammer felts are a little more compressed, they are still breaking in.

Also if I were trying to record serious piano solo stuff, I don't know if I would be happy with any digital piano as I just don't have the same feel while playing it that I do on the grand piano. But that is the situation where the "feel" of the sampled piano really matters, the touch response, etc..there are so many different factors. In a mix, its entirely different thing, often times some of the least suspecting candidates can sound perfectly great in a mix..including freebie ones! Nobody talks about TruePianos anymore, but I still really like it and use it all the time as a goto piano when I'm just composing and writing downstairs away from my real piano. I like the way different notes resonate with each other much better then any sampled piano I have tried. I suspect pianoteq is the same way, but I don't own that yet.

Sampled pianos often can nail the dynamic response perhaps a little better...where it really captures that subtle differences on a note by note basis between soft and loud notes...per the actual piano that is being represented. I feel the realism is better then both TruePianos and Pianoteq. Arturia's pianos are also in the same ballpark as those, partly modeled and should not be overlooked. But these modeled pianos, in my opinion, really capture the the myriad of overtone combinations that occur when you play different chords, with the pedal down, etc. Play a chord with some chord extensions, on these products and you hear a lot of harmonic richness that I simply do not hear at all with any sampled piano I've ever tried.

But anyway, in a mix, its a lot less important all that stuff, every single product on that list will have a sound that may work in a mix, or whatever you have now, you can EQ it or whatever and probably make it work in a mix...some perhaps better then others. I think the XLN Addictive Keys stuff, for example, is uninspirational to play solo, but often sits in a mix very very well with a great interface for finding different kinds of piano tone from it. It also is a not a space or cpu hog in any way, so it makes a great piano for a gigging keyboard player, as do some others which would not be my first choice for recording an elaborate piano solo, but would be an easy choice in a mix.

I think a lot of people searching for the ultimate sampled piano at any price are looking for a replacement for the fact they don't have a real grand piano and they want something inspirational to play on with their weighted midi controller, and I understand that need totally and completely, but its just that we all need to understand when discussing all these pianos that there are different needs for different folks, and there is without question not one single piano to rule them all.


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## Geoff Grace (Aug 11, 2018)

Dewdman42 said:


> I think there are a lot of different reason why people need a good piano, and for that reason some of the ones that may not actually be perhaps the most playable, yet still have a certain distinctive sound can be very useful. In all the years I've been following these kinds of threads, I always see so much conflicting information, it becomes very subjective and very dependent on what people need it for. For example, I now have a grand piano in my living room that plays and sounds great, so I no longer need a super playable sampled piano in order to sit at a piano and "create". I get far more inspiration sitting at my Mason&Hamlin then I do from any digital piano period...even though the digital pianos would in fact sound lot better in a recording session most likely. I intend to try to record my M&H after the hammer felts are a little more compressed, they are still breaking in.
> 
> Also if I were trying to record serious piano solo stuff, I don't know if I would be happy with any digital piano as I just don't have the same feel while playing it that I do on the grand piano. But that is the situation where the "feel" of the sampled piano really matters, the touch response, etc..there are so many different factors. In a mix, its entirely different thing, often times some of the least suspecting candidates can sound perfectly great in a mix..including freebie ones! Nobody talks about TruePianos anymore, but I still really like it and use it all the time as a goto piano when I'm just composing and writing downstairs away from my real piano. I like the way different notes resonate with each other much better then any sampled piano I have tried. I suspect pianoteq is the same way, but I don't own that yet.
> 
> ...


I agree that context is all important.

For me, nothing replaces an acoustic piano, as far as the playing experience goes. Even the best recording and reproduction tools color the sound and place it in a different space. I've been fortunate enough to play great pianos in world class recording studios, but my experience of having to monitor through headphones while my playing was recorded was always less satisfying than just playing and hearing the natural sound of the piano in the room. Even the sound of a live, real piano suffers through the best reproduction process.

As a result, for recreation, I'd rather play my upright piano than the best sampled piano. Nonetheless, for sequencing a solo piano sound, I'll stick with Production Voices Production Grand 2 Platinum. For a piano that sounds best in a track, I'm glad I have a variety of sampled pianos to choose from.

Best,

Geoff


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 11, 2018)

Dewdman42 said:


> I think there are a lot of different reason why people need a good piano, and for that reason some of the ones that may not actually be perhaps the most playable, yet still have a certain distinctive sound can be very useful.



Are you related to Guy BrothaBub?


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## chapbot (Aug 11, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> What is really funny is that I have a lot of pianos, some expensive, some not, and yet when I need a quick piano I tend to grab Addictive Keys studio grand or Sonnivox's Eighty-eight. Both have low CPU, load fast and still sound great in a mix. Ravenscroft tends to be my next go to.
> 
> As an aside, I just got the PV Concert Grand and Embertone's Walker, bot sound great, but they do take a while to load. I ordered an SSD, hopefully it will help.


After you get your SSD you'll wonder how you lived without it. I tried using the VSL CFX on my regular drive since my SSD was full and it just wouldn't work.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 11, 2018)

chapbot said:


> After you get your SSD you'll wonder how you lived without it. I tried using the VSL CFX on my regular drive since my SSD was full and it just wouldn't work.


I really need about 3 1 TB SSD's but I just can't see spending what they want for them. And then, is it better to have multiple SSD's or a single large one?


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## Nao Gam (Aug 11, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> I really need about 3 1 TB SSD's but I just can't see spending what they want for them. And then, is it better to have multiple SSD's or a single large one?


Technically a bigger ssd will last you longer than 3 small ones provided you use them equally, but ssds last many years anyway.
One ssd will probably be cheaper too, but then multiple ones are safer in case you lose files or one gets damaged.

Keep in mind with ssds, info gets moved around unlike with hdds, and over time these thingies that store 1s and 0s (can't remember what they are) get damaged beyond repair one by one, so they can't be used. This means you need to keep free space (about 30%) in ssds so the info moves around freely and there's room for more damage. The bigger the ssd the smaller that % needs to be. So technically you can fit more data in a big single ssd. For 3tb 10% might be plenty.

As for durability, if the manufacturing quality is fine they should last more than a decade.

All in all I think price difference is your main priority.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Aug 11, 2018)

I miss the Fracture sound woodchester piano in the list. Although not my first go to it’s a very nice and useful one I would say. Maybe it is a bit special in the “felt piano”category and that’s why it is not included but it is most likely that it is someones favorite.


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## dhowarthmusic (Aug 11, 2018)

Markus Kohlprath said:


> I miss the Fracture sound woodchester piano in the list. Although not my first go to it’s a very nice and useful one I would say. Maybe it is a bit special in the “felt piano”category and that’s why it is not included but it is most likely that it is someones favorite.


It is an upright piano and will be in the upright piano poll which I will be posting soon!


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## Motr3b (Aug 11, 2018)

JPComposer said:


> I would wait for the outcome of this vote before you buy the Bechstein. I was not impressed with it. It is very clinical. To me the tone isn't good and the mic positions too limited. They make great pianos but I think their sampling leaves something to be desired. There are some great musicians on here that rate it highly though. So, again, it comes down to personal taste.
> 
> For me the Imperfect Samples pianos feel very 'alive', but they are definitely imperfect. I'm surprised to see the NI pianos doing so well here. I'll have to dig out my old Komplete and try them.



well, the outcome of this poll blew me away. i didn't know NI Maverick and Grandeur might be so popular, also didn't know bechstein might have so many few fans.
i checked what you suggested also what @Parsifal666 suggested(thank you both btw), liked them both imperfect samples and garritan cfx and now i have no idea which one i should get , also found out about the piano in blue which makes things even worse .


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## dhowarthmusic (Aug 11, 2018)

Markus Kohlprath said:


> I miss the Fracture sound woodchester piano in the list. Although not my first go to it’s a very nice and useful one I would say. Maybe it is a bit special in the “felt piano”category and that’s why it is not included but it is most likely that it is someones favorite.


The upright piano, felt and sound design pianos poll is now up!


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## CGR (Aug 11, 2018)

shawnsingh said:


> Hey, thanks to both of you for listening! I still do make music, but it's a side gig and life is getting increasingly busy. I do have in mind a piano album coming soon after my current music project (you can search online for "clicker heroes 2 soundtrack", which is my current project, still adding more tracks for several months more).


Good to hear Shawn. Let us know when the solo piano album happens. BTW, I just bought a download from iTunes of your track 'The Journey'


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## Manaberry (Aug 12, 2018)

So many Pianos, and I'm only using Grandeur and Una Corda (because of the Komplete 11). Not sure if they are the best or not. I love soft piano. What seems to be the best soft piano on this poll list?


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## shawnsingh (Aug 12, 2018)

CGR said:


> Good to hear Shawn. Let us know when the solo piano album happens. BTW, I just bought a download from iTunes of your track 'The Journey'



Thanks mate!!


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## damayor (Aug 15, 2018)

Emotional piano
Spitfire felt piano
Bechstein digital grand
8dio 1969 steinway
Yamaha Motif xf grand piano (my go to)
Roland Tera Piano
Spitfire Orchestral grand
Hammersmith pro (deleted of Hard drive as i started to dislike the sound)
Pearl Concert grand (deleted as Well)
Orange Tree Rosewood
Waves factory Mercury Grand

I have some others but nothing worth mentioning.


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## good (Aug 15, 2018)

damayor said:


> Emotional piano
> Spitfire felt piano
> Bechstein digital grand
> 8dio 1969 steinway
> ...



You seem to like a dreamy feeling


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## Fleer (Aug 15, 2018)

Motr3b said:


> NI the maverick, so far so good, but i'm planning to get Bechstein Digital Grand soon.


Absolutely love this one. Feels like a real Bechstein. Developed by Bechstein themselves.


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## SGordB (Aug 24, 2018)

When I first saw this poll a week or two ago, I was conflicted about rating pianos I currently use, but infrequently, with the same weight as the one I use routinely. So I didn't rate any. Just a moment ago, it struck me that since upgrading from Garritan CFX Lite to Full a few weeks ago, it's gone from being my 95% go-to piano to my 100% - why would I bother using any other? - piano. So now I've chosen it in the poll, and it alone, even though I'm sure I'll eventually see renewed merit in some of my other old favourites, such as Pianoteq D and Bluthner.


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## Wally Garten (Aug 24, 2018)

This is funny -- I don't use _any_ of these. I think I'm not much of a straight piano guy, so when I reach for one, it's usually something weird, like the NI Giant or Una Corda, or one of the Spitfire Labs specials, like the Felt Piano. Or Sound Dust's Plastic Ghost Piano, heh. Come to think of it, most of those might be uprights anyway.

Anyway, on the very rare occasions I need a normal-sounding grand, I just use the stock Bosendorfer in Logic. (Pure philistinism, I know.)


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## SoNowWhat? (Aug 25, 2018)

Wally Garten said:


> This is funny -- I don't use _any_ of these. I think I'm not much of a straight piano guy, so when I reach for one, it's usually something weird, like the NI Giant or Una Corda, or one of the Spitfire Labs specials, like the Felt Piano. Or Sound Dust's Plastic Ghost Piano, heh. Come to think of it, most of those might be uprights anyway.
> 
> Anyway, on the very rare occasions I need a normal-sounding grand, I just use the stock Bosendorfer in Logic. (Pure philistinism, I know.)


Don’t feel bad at all. That’s good news. I think it’s easy to get carried away and if your pianos serve your needs that’s all that matters. 

I’m not surprised that NI Grandeur and Maverick are doing well, they sound good, respond as I’d expect and have a range of preset options (snapshots) to choose from. 

Since getting Walker, I’m not looking at anything else though. I’m in love and will spend hours playing when it’s loaded. I will agree with @dzilizzi in that it takes a long time to load and I do have it on SSD. I know that Garitan CFX and Production Voices are also highly regarded. I may fall for one of them in the future. It’s a very personal thing Piano libraries and decisions are driven by different things for different users.


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 25, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Garitan CFX and Production Voices are also highly regarded. I may fall for one of them in the future. It’s a very personal thing Piano libraries and decisions are driven by different things for different users.



I was a bit leery when first recommended Production Voices (having already had my heart stolen by CFX). However, upon closer inspection (youtube) I became pretty darn impressed with the PV. To be succinct, had I not grabbed CFX already, it's possible I would have been torn between PV and Embertone.

I do use the "smaller scale" pianos like Alicia's Keys (good in a limited context imo), Gentleman, even the Ark 1 piano (the last mostly in the context of the rest of the Ark 1 orchestra). But if I completely extract myself from the love of buying new stuff, CFX would be perhaps all I'd need for a grand.


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## Fleer (Aug 25, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Don’t feel bad at all. That’s good news. I think it’s easy to get carried away and if your pianos serve your needs that’s all that matters.
> 
> I’m not surprised that NI Grandeur and Maverick are doing well, they sound good, respond as I’d expect and have a range of preset options (snapshots) to choose from.
> 
> Since getting Walker, I’m not looking at anything else though. I’m in love and will spend hours playing when it’s loaded. I will agree with @dzilizzi in that it takes a long time to load and I do have it on SSD. I know that Garitan CFX and Production Voices are also highly regarded. I may fall for one of them in the future. It’s a very personal thing Piano libraries and decisions are driven by different things for different users.


Same here, that Embertone Walker has pretty much become my definitive sampled Steinway. Embertone’s love for sampling these exquisite instruments (like their Joshua Bell Violin) is the ideal combination of sound and playability for me.


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 25, 2018)

I see Waves' Rhapsody doesn't get much love here. Anyone own this one?


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## Fleer (Aug 25, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I see Waves' Rhapsody doesn't get much love here. Anyone own this one?


Not crazy about that one. 
But the Wavesfactory Mercury Grand is a beautiful and very expressive Fazioli, my preferred one as such. And you get great effects on top, also for separate use.


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 25, 2018)

Fleer said:


> But the Wavesfactory Mercury Grand is a beautiful and very expressive Fazioli, my preferred one as such. And you get great effects on top, also for separate use.



Really, I'll have to check that one out, thanks!
Wavesfactory Mercury Grand


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## SGordB (Aug 25, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I see Waves' Rhapsody doesn't get much love here. Anyone own this one?


Very cheap, but not even great "for the money." There are one or two mic sets that I can sometimes transiently get into, but I never stay long. There's something I find very "untamed" about its sound and playability that keeps me from coming back, especially when I have a consummate performer like Garritan CFX in my stable.


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## dhowarthmusic (Aug 25, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> Really, I'll have to check that one out, thanks!
> Wavesfactory Mercury Grand


According to their websites the Waves Grand Rhapsody and the Wavesfactory Mercury Grand are the same Fazioli F228 piano and both are recorded at Metropolis Studios in London.


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## germancomponist (Aug 25, 2018)

I am in love with the sound of the "Art Vista Supergrand" piano. But sure, it depends on the music what you are producing ... .


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## Parsifal666 (Aug 25, 2018)

dhowarthmusic said:


> According to their websites the Waves Grand Rhapsody and the Wavesfactory Mercury Grand are the same Fazioli F228 piano and both are recorded at Metropolis Studios in London.



Hmmmm….


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## ptram (Sep 6, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> I’m not surprised that NI Grandeur and Maverick are doing well, they sound good, respond as I’d expect and have a range of preset options (snapshots) to choose from.
> Since getting Walker, I’m not looking at anything else though. I’m in love and will spend hours playing when it’s loaded.


Do you mind comparing The Grandeur and the Embertone's Walker Steinway? They seem very similar in tone color (they should have been made at a few years of distance), but I feel the Embertone might sound a bit fuller in the mids, and better balanced on the whole range.

Paolo


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## Victor N. (Sep 6, 2018)

not using any... but watching this thread : )


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## HiEnergy (Sep 6, 2018)

Still using 4Front True Pianos as my "go-to" piano


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 8, 2018)

ptram said:


> Do you mind comparing The Grandeur and the Embertone's Walker Steinway? They seem very similar in tone color (they should have made at a few years of distance), but I feel the Embertone might sound a bit fuller in the mids, and better balanced on the whole range.
> 
> Paolo


I've just had a chance to sit down and play them against one another. I also rolled The Maverick in there too. I think you're right that their tone is similar (Walker and Grandeur) though different enough to tell them apart, and I guess that makes sense. There's a couple of things I would say and bear in mind the subjective nature of this: I was playing through headphones for this test. I used Hammer+Wide mics and the Classical preset on the Embertone, Basic Grandeur setting on NI. Tried to match volume levels between the two. There is just way more detail in the sound coming from the Walker. The Grandeur can feel almost muffled in comparison but certainly more "flat" (muffled isn't quite the right word, I think flat is better). The Walker has more depth and the Grandeur can tend towards hmmm less than three dimensions. This translates to a feeling of life in the Walker that just isn't there (for me) in the Grandeur. I find the difference is much more marked at lower velocities. When you're bashing something out the difference is still there but less noticeable. At gentle lower velocities the Grandeur almost sounds like it's been pushed away from you to make it quieter while the Walker stays close and intimate.

I will not say that The Grandeur is bad at all but these are some thoughts on a comparison between the two, all my opinion.

I always preferred the Maverick to the Grandeur (but horses for courses) and I find that my mind hasn't changed after a bit of a break from using them. The Maverick does sound more alive to me when playing though it has a darker tone (I love a bit o' Bechstein). Still I find the Walker more rewarding to play and again there is more detail and depth to the sound over all dynamic ranges.


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## dhowarthmusic (Sep 13, 2018)

I just discovered another great piano on another thread that is not on this piano poll. I can’t add it now as there is a limit of 100 entries on Vi Polls and I already have 100 pianos listed on this poll.

It’s called the Big Swing Grand and you can check it out here. It’s a Yamaha C6 6” 11 inches. https://www.bigswingface.com/sample-page/grand-piano/

I just bought it and being a pianist it feels and plays one of the best VST pianos that I have and I own about 40 pianos on this poll.


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## keepitsimple (Sep 13, 2018)

dhowarthmusic said:


> I just discovered another great piano on another thread that is not on this piano poll. I can’t add it now as there is a limit of 100 entries on Vi Polls and I already have 100 pianos listed on this poll.
> 
> It’s called the Big Swing Grand and you can check it out here. It’s a Yamaha C6 6” 11 inches. https://www.bigswingface.com/sample-page/grand-piano/
> 
> I just bought it and being a pianist it feels and plays one of the best VST pianos that I have and I own about 40 pianos on this poll.


Thanks for this. I remember checking their site a while because someone recommended this piano before. That's nice from them to provide a demo version (even though it's only 9 notes). Downloading the demo version now.


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## CGR (Sep 13, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> Thanks for this. I remember checking their site a while because someone recommended this piano before. That's nice from them to provide a demo version (even though it's only 9 notes). Downloading the demo version now.


This sampled piano is not well known, but a very good close mic 'studio' sound, and great dynamics (16 velocity layers) with a very even response (it was sampled using an automated velocity striker mechanism). Here's a piano test midi file I downloaded from Sweetwater's Virtual Piano Shootout in April 2018, which compared numerous sampled pianos, played with Big Swing Grand to give you an idea of it's tone & dynamics (there aren't many demos of this one around)

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/big-face-big-swing-grand-jazz-test-mp3.15274/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## keepitsimple (Sep 18, 2018)

Here's a fun comparison i decided to do yesterday between those 3 lovely libraries. Fabfilter Pro-R LA Hall on all tracks.


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## CGR (Sep 18, 2018)

Interesting comparison. I prefer Ivory ACD in this case - it has a better balance of tone to my ears.


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## SGordB (Sep 19, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> Here's a fun comparison i decided to do yesterday between those 3 lovely libraries. Fabfilter Pro-R LA Hall on all tracks.



Agree with CGR. For a muscular piece like this, the CFX is too thin and icy, the Ravenscroft is kind of muffled/midrangey? (it ain't quite "bringin' it"), but the ACD is just right. Which do you prefer?


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## keepitsimple (Sep 19, 2018)

SGordB said:


> Agree with CGR. For a muscular piece like this, the CFX is too thin and icy, the Ravenscroft is kind of muffled/midrangey? (it ain't quite "bringin' it"), but the ACD is just right. Which do you prefer?


Can't choose. Love them all for different reasons. The CFX feels very organic when playing it because of those zillion release samples per key. The Ravenscroft simply plays like a dream, the transitions between velocities and the scripting done by VI Labs on this thing is bar none, it feels and plays like a real piano. The ACD has an overlooked feature that i really admire, which is that it uses unlimited polyphony when bouncing offline, maybe that's why it arguably sounds the best and therefore is the most "Album ready" of the bunch (beside the fact that it’s a beautifully sampled vintage Steinway to begin with).


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## wcreed51 (Sep 19, 2018)

I've never even heard the Grandeur mentioned before, yet it has the most votes.


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## Parsifal666 (Sep 19, 2018)

wcreed51 said:


> I've never even heard the Grandeur mentioned before, yet it has the most votes.



I was a little surprised, as Gentleman was my choice from NI (though I put none of those vis up there with the Garritan CFX). I do like Alicia's Keys for Pop stuff.


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## shawnsingh (Sep 19, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> Here's a fun comparison



So I assume they are all the same MIDI, right? In particular, same note velocities and pedal CC? I think it might be important to know which instrument you used when you actually made the MIDI recording.

For example, I actually liked the VSL tone more than the Ivory. But it did feel like the VSL CFX piano was interpreting the MIDI velocities as "play most notes unnaturally consistently FF". So either, the recording you have was intentionally going for that tone (which I suppose then there's no problem...), or there's some difference in how different pianos map MIDI velocities which make the CFX performance a bit too hot?


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## shawnsingh (Sep 19, 2018)

@keepitsimple Oh and... nice playing by the way =) (Edit: addressed wrong user )


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## SGordB (Sep 20, 2018)

shawnsingh said:


> @SGordB Oh and... nice playing by the way =)


Thanks, but that was keepitsimple's post


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## shawnsingh (Sep 20, 2018)

Hah. I tried to think of a smooth recovery line, but I don't have one . Edited the post.


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## SGordB (Sep 20, 2018)

shawnsingh said:


> Hah. I tried to think of a smooth recovery line, but I don't have one . Edited the post.


I've put my foot in my mouth more than once on this forum, so I can relate


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## keepitsimple (Sep 20, 2018)

shawnsingh said:


> So I assume they are all the same MIDI, right? In particular, same note velocities and pedal CC? I think it might be important to know which instrument you used when you actually made the MIDI recording.
> 
> For example, I actually liked the VSL tone more than the Ivory. But it did feel like the VSL CFX piano was interpreting the MIDI velocities as "play most notes unnaturally consistently FF". So either, the recording you have was intentionally going for that tone (which I suppose then there's no problem...), or there's some difference in how different pianos map MIDI velocities which make the CFX performance a bit too hot?


Yes same midi of course and played initially on the VSL CFX. Everything was "intentionally" played yes. While the track is mostly F and FF dominated, there are breathes of fresh air in there (lol) at 4:20 for example.


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## Perry (Nov 14, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> Production Voices Production Grand 2 Platinum is the best sampled piano I've ever laid my hands on. My only complaint is that it's too bright for some applications, but that's due to the type of piano sampled—a Yamaha C7—rather than Production Voices' sampling abilities.
> 
> As a result of my high-level of satisfaction, I'm not eager to buy another sampled grand—save for the fact that I will occasionally need one that's less bright. At that point in time, Production Voices' new Concert Grand Platinum will be at the top of my list.
> 
> ...


I bought the Death Piano. I like it because not for the reverbs or delay but the one that has no trick effects .Just a grand simple piano.It sounds realistic not immetation sounding.


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## Syncopator (Nov 14, 2018)

dhowarthmusic said:


> After last years string library poll I though it would be interesting to see which are the most popular piano libraries being used out there at the moment. I tried to list all the virtual grand pianos that I could find but I may have missed some. I will have a separate poll coming for uprights and sound design pianos.



Very cool poll. Thanks. Is there a setting (perhaps on your end, as the OP) that would allow us to optionally sort the poll results by the number of votes received?


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## AJHnob (Nov 15, 2018)

dhowarthmusic said:


> The upright piano, felt and sound design pianos poll is now up!



Can you please post the link to it? I can't seem to find it. Thanks!


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## MiluX (Nov 15, 2018)

Hi there!
I would argue that Pianoteq is not a library (as you say in the title) 
It has indeed much more possibilities than normal sample libraries, which make it stand out for me...

 (And I know I shouldn’t be doing this, but I have a video waiting for your vote until this saturday on their contest page, which shows some of these possibilities )


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## good (Nov 15, 2018)

MiluX said:


> Hi there!
> I would argue that Pianoteq is not a library (as you say in the title)
> It has indeed much more possibilities than normal sample libraries, which make it stand out for me...



Yes, it has much possibilities. However sample libraries are also evolving like Pianoteq is doing. Years have passed since many people said 'Pianoteq has possibilities'. I think they still have more ways to go now. The same applies to 'normal' sample libraries. But many excellent sample libraries are releasing these days. I think it is pointless to compare one's superiority. Because different people have different perspectives on sound.


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## Crowe (Nov 15, 2018)

The three NI ones, mostly on account of actually having them. I must say I use Alicia's keys the least however, as pop isn't really my genre of interest.


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## woodslanding (Nov 15, 2018)

<QUOTE>keepitsimple said: ↑
Thanks for this. I remember checking their site a while because someone recommended this piano before. That's nice from them to provide a demo version (even though it's only 9 notes). Downloading the demo version now.</QUOTE>

I do feel like none of my sample sets get the velocity 'quite' right. And F.I. the Scarbee 88 gets it 'quite' wrong! Not in love with the sound of it (not really a Yamaha man, I have a Schimmel at home) but I might still love playing it live....


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## Pantonal (Nov 18, 2018)

I've been very much enjoying Michael Picher's Basilica Piano Kawai RX7.


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## Perry (Jul 15, 2019)

I use Production Voices Death Piano It sounds grainy realistic.And NI NoirePiano sounds clean.


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## ThomasS (Jul 15, 2019)

In my opinion, here are some of the best piano libraries, in no particular order: CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur, Keyscape, Alicia's Keys, The Maverick, Piano in Blue, Noire, Pearl Concert Grand. Whoever said you can't have too many piano libraries is wrong. You can, and many people do. But you can also have too few, because different libraries are necessary for different tracks, depending on the style, the other instruments, and so many other considerations. I think eight is plenty (hence the above list) if you can afford them. Any more is unnecessary until the next great library comes along (which it will.) I try a recorded midi track or live playing in the style I want on several libraries (I have a quick-loading track-archive in Cubase with all of them, purged, which with one click enables me to try my piano on each, and decide which best suits the piece. I often do this after other instruments are recorded, because how it fits with the rest of the track is crucial. It is amazing how often I think a particular library is the best when I hear it solo, but another sounds better in the mix of a particular piece. I bet a lot of others here do the same.

Of course, I don't own or know much about more than half the libraries here, but I'm a little surprised that Grandeur, Maverick and Alicia are ranked in the top three. They are all great pianos, for sure, but often I find CFX, Noire or Keyscape (to name a few) will sound better than these older, but still excellent, NI pianos. Perhaps its because the question is "What do you currently use?" rather than "What would you most like to have?" So this poll reveals more of what people own, and not necessarily what they might use if they had other libraries to compare.


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## Hayden (Jul 15, 2019)

JPComposer said:


> I would wait for the outcome of this vote before you buy the Bechstein. I was not impressed with it. It is very clinical. To me the tone isn't good and the mic positions too limited. They make great pianos but I think their sampling leaves something to be desired. There are some great musicians on here that rate it highly though. So, again, it comes down to personal taste.
> 
> For me the Imperfect Samples pianos feel very 'alive', but they are definitely imperfect. I'm surprised to see the NI pianos doing so well here. I'll have to dig out my old Komplete and try them.



One reason that The NI Pianos may be so popular, is because one or more of their pianos are offered along with the purchase of any Kontakt collection. This is somewhat similar to a purchase of Pianoteq pianos, which also comes with more than one instrument.


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## chimuelo (Oct 3, 2019)

Perry said:


> I use Production Voices Death Piano It sounds grainy realistic.And NI NoirePiano sounds clean.



I thought you were joking then I found it.
Death Piano, I should buy it just to support someone thats as tired of me hearing the Ultimate and ll of the over marketed jargon.

The Death Piano.
Marvellous


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## ProtectedRights (Oct 3, 2019)

Geoff Grace said:


> Production Voices Production Grand 2 Platinum is the best sampled piano I've ever laid my hands on. My only complaint is that it's too bright for some applications, but that's due to the type of piano sampled—a Yamaha C7—rather than Production Voices' sampling abilities.
> 
> As a result of my high-level of satisfaction, I'm not eager to buy another sampled grand—save for the fact that I will occasionally need one that's less bright. At that point in time, Production Voices' new Concert Grand Platinum will be at the top of my list.
> 
> ...


I had the same problem, too. Now what I do is scale down the velocities in the DAW so the maximum velocity is say 60 (adjust that to your own taste) and I turn up the volume instead. then I have a nice full and mellow piano tone.
I think it's basically the same technique that e.g. the Galaxy Vintage D and many others use under the hood for their tone control knobs.


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## Aphanasis (Oct 3, 2019)

It's been Heavyocity Ascend for me since Tuesday, but before that whichever NI piano fit the bill at the time. Komplete will do that to you.


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## Geoff Grace (Oct 4, 2019)

ProtectedRights said:


> I had the same problem, too. Now what I do is scale down the velocities in the DAW so the maximum velocity is say 60 (adjust that to your own taste) and I turn up the volume instead. then I have a nice full and mellow piano tone.
> I think it's basically the same technique that e.g. the Galaxy Vintage D and many others use under the hood for their tone control knobs.


I do that as well. It's a minor inconvenience but worth it. 

Best,

Geoff


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## dzilizzi (Oct 4, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> I thought you were joking then I found it.
> Death Piano, I should buy it just to support someone thats as tired of me hearing the Ultimate and ll of the over marketed jargon.
> 
> The Death Piano.
> Marvellous


I also am a big fan of the Death Piano. It has some great sounds. There are some great messed up pianos out there. I also picked up the Destroyed Six on sale recently from the same guys that did the Pripyat Pianos.


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## Zedcars (Oct 4, 2019)

VSL Synchron Steinway Concert D-274 mostly. Best VI piano I’ve bought so far.


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## NekujaK (Oct 4, 2019)

No Miroslav on the list? It's old, but has become one of my go-to pianos. In fact, a post in one of the VI threads prompted me to revisit and rediscover this piano. It has a warm even tone that is also able to cut thru a busy mix.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 4, 2019)

I don't know whether I posted in this thread earlier, but is it really possible to tell whether a good sampled piano library is an upright or a grand?

Put another way, does it matter?

Serious question, not trolling!


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## tfishbein82 (Oct 4, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I don't know whether I posted in this thread earlier, but is it really possible to tell whether a good sampled piano library is an upright or a grand?
> 
> Put another way, does it matter?
> 
> Serious question, not trolling!


Ignoring sample libraries momentarily, I can usually tell the piano model from a good recording, but I've been playing and listening to piano daily for 35 years. I would say that most often I would distinguish a grand from an upright. What I'm probably doing is picking up on a few specific characteristics of the sound. And I think there are usually distinct qualities that you'll hear in uprights. Does it matter in a sample library? Not as long as the sound--whether an upright or grand--is right for the purpose at hand.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 4, 2019)

tfishbein82 said:


> Ignoring sample libraries momentarily, I can usually tell the piano model from a good recording, but I've been playing and listening to piano daily for 35 years. I would say that most often I would distinguish a grand from an upright. What I'm probably doing is picking up on a few specific characteristics of the sound. And I think there are usually distinct qualities that you'll hear in uprights. Does it matter in a sample library? Not as long as the sound--whether an upright or grand--is right for the purpose at hand.



No question, different pianos sound different even to me - someone who only knows enough piano to use it as a tool.

I might be able to tell a Steinway (character) from a Yamaha (even) and definitely a Fazioli (more clangorous and powerful). There's a range within each make, however, for example my mom (retired piano teacher) has two Steinway grands that sound very different from one another - one is much more mellow than the other, I'm guessing because it has softer hammers.

But sample libraries are another matter.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 4, 2019)

What I was really thinking is that I'm not sure I could tell with a sample library miked close up like many are, run through reverbs... to the point that I'm not sure it's necessary to have a separate library to get an upright sound.

If you want Lady Madonna, do you need a sampled upright, or can you get a honky tonk sound from any piano library?

Probably yes.


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## PaulieDC (Oct 4, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What I was really thinking is that I'm not sure I could tell with a sample library miked close up like many are, run through reverbs... to the point that I'm not sure it's necessary to have a separate library to get an upright sound.
> 
> If you want Lady Madonna, do you need a sampled upright, or can you get a honky tonk sound from any piano library?
> 
> Probably yes.


You probably can use any bright library, slightly detune it with a flanger and compress the stuffing out of it to get the Lady Madonna sound. Definitely a "solid state" compressor like the CLA-3A, doesn't sound like a tube compressor. I think. Killer price right now btw. I record our Yamaha C5 at church with a C414 XLS and use the 3A on the channel in post with just enough GR to make the needle start to move and that's it. Brings the piano to life. Any more gain reduction than that and it starts to sound like... um... Lady Madonna.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 4, 2019)

Well, there's the tube vs. solid-state part and there's the optical detector. I've never used a real LA-3A and don't know much about it, but the LA-2A can do a huge amount of gain reduction without sounding unnatural.

They all sound different, though. The 1176, another famous one, makes the whole signal brighter because of the way it responds. (And I'm not crazy about it.)

I'll have to compare the Waves compressors to see what you mean about just touching the piano.


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## chimuelo (Oct 4, 2019)

NekujaK said:


> No Miroslav on the list? It's old, but has become one of my go-to pianos. In fact, a post in one of the VI threads prompted me to revisit and rediscover this piano. It has a warm even tone that is also able to cut thru a busy mix.



Such a great musician too.
He had the best tone recording with Weather Report.


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## KEM (Oct 4, 2019)

I honestly don't think I'll ever use anything other than Piano in Blue...


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## Fleer (Oct 4, 2019)

Man, since version 1.1 of Embertone’s Walker 1955 Concert D Grand is out, there’s no way back. Simply stunning.


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## WaveRider (Oct 4, 2019)

I've found it's always good to A/B pianos before getting too excited about a new purchase. This rings especially true with SampleTek. You start playing it for a while and it sounds good, but then you A/B it against a sample library and suddenly it's 'what was a thinking?'


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## Dietz (Oct 5, 2019)

BTW: This list misses two Synchron pianos - the Steinway and the Blüthner. Just saying.


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## Mark Schmieder (Oct 8, 2019)

That's because the list is from early 2018. I was looking for them as well as for Noire then noticed when the list was compiled.


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## mosthiyo (Jan 7, 2020)

keepitsimple said:


> It was all for the quest to keep it simple and find the one and stick with it


Hey keepitsimple, can you recommend a piano for soul please?


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## Perry (Jan 7, 2020)

Death Piano has Bite and Rawness if you use the correct effect.I also use Noire grand NI.


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## woodslanding (Jan 7, 2020)

Soul? If you mean as in 60's recordings, I like Sampletekk black, and the vienna grand. They are warm and dark and analog sounding. If you're thinking 80's that's a whole different ballgame.


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## Mark Schmieder (Jan 7, 2020)

This list is very much out of date; it does not include the last few VSL Synchron Piano releases, which are now my top pianos.


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## CGR (Jan 7, 2020)

mosthiyo said:


> Hey keepitsimple, can you recommend a piano for soul please?


I'll offer an opinion - check out the ArtVista VGP3 (has fantastic presets for blues, jazz & soul). Requires full version of Kontakt. On sale at 50% off until 9th January:






Art Vista 50% OFF New Year's Tax Write-Off Sale!


Never a better time to get a classic, timeless, Art Vista instrument than in our New Year's 50% tax write-off sale. Just enter the discount code: happy2020 Enter the code when checking out, and update the cart for a full 50% off the complete cart! The sale ends January 9. Happy New Year!




vi-control.net





Also the Wholesounds 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand (great tone for early Ray Charles type piano). Runs in the free UVI workstation:






1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand — Whole Sounds







www.wholesounds.com


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## keepitsimple (Jan 8, 2020)

mosthiyo said:


> Hey keepitsimple, can you recommend a piano for soul please?


i second CGR's suggestions! But really there are many options nowadays!


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## fahl5 (Jan 10, 2020)

- Since I do simply need a good Bechstein I have used the Bechstein digital Grand and now discovered the Soundmagic Bechstein 282 (which is not listed) as my currently favorite Bechstein. (The Maverick lacks in my humble opinion like the other NI-Pianos the right balance of deep warmth and clear detail of the characteristic telling overtones and their dynamic convincing variability. While I do have a great respect for NI as a prolific company and as longtime Complete-User all of their stuff on my SSD, But I have never have been taken their pianos in any consideration at all, for their in my humble opinion mostly to thin and superficial tones)
- The VSL-Pianos tend to be mixed a bit overburden with ambiance, so when I use them i pretty much try to get rid of the exaggerated ambiance. Than they may be still clean and blown up with technical superlativ data, but simply still not musical inspiring at all (perhaps I might use their synchron Steinway once for Beethoven unless I find any other good but also musically more inspiring Piano),
- The feeling of spontaneous inspiration by the apealing tone is what I pretty much love in respect to the Synthogy Steinways (aswell German as AC) an Synthogy Faziola, I cant remeber a moment when hearing a Synthogy Fazioli or Steinway without instantaneously like to go on playing it.
- Pianoteq is technically impressive, but I do still here the difference between samples and their soundengine. But I find their historic Pianos very usefull (which sadly are all not listed)
- I also use the historic pianofortes and grandpianos made by realsample (also not listed).
- My Quntum-Leap-Pianolicens-ILok-USB-Stick is sadly broken. That is the simple reason why I cant use them any more. I think I also loved their Bechstein.
Quite an impressive list of products available, but sadly only very few of them seem to me realy inspiring and musical convincing to realy enjoy using them. So there seem to me nevertheless still a long way to go for the developers and their engineers.


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## pluebellify (Mar 4, 2020)

fahl5 said:


> - My Quntum-Leap-Pianolicens-ILok-USB-Stick is sadly broken. That is the simple reason why I cant use them any more. I think I also loved their Bechstein.



Contact EastWest - They can reset that license if you file an RMA that iLok key being lost/stolen


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