# Visas for Recording



## Gerhard Westphalen (Sep 16, 2017)

How do engineers work at studios around the world? If Alan Meyerson is being employed for an American film and they record at Air, how can he do that legally? There's no company sponsoring him there and he can't get an artist visa since he's not really an artist. How does it work for engineers wanting to record in the US with or without the project they're working on being American? 

All of the US visas I've seen require someone in the US hiring the alien, never someone in another country hiring someone to go do something in the US (which would understandably look strange for other professions).


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## Daniel James (Sep 16, 2017)

This usually covers most of the events. https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa

And if not then its one of these I believe: https://www.gov.uk/tier-5-temporary-worker-creative-and-sporting-visa

You couldn't for example come and take a UK job without a work visa (ie get paid by the studio) but if your work is external (say from LA) and you need to have a business trip to the UK to record you would go via the visas above.

-DJ


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Sep 16, 2017)

Daniel James said:


> This usually covers most of the events. https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa
> 
> And if not then its one of these I believe: https://www.gov.uk/tier-5-temporary-worker-creative-and-sporting-visa
> 
> ...



Thanks!

The standard visitor visa says you can't do any paid or unpaid work. For the tier 5 is says you need a sponsorship from a licensed employer so that could be difficult for smaller budget projects (?). 

So is it considered like going for a conference? What confuses me is that they'd be going to do 100% of their job, not attend meetings and PR like people would normally do on such a business trip. 

Personally, it's easier for me in the UK since I'm German so I'm mainly concerned with being able to go to the US to do these types of things but not live there permanently.


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## Daniel James (Sep 16, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The standard visitor visa says you can't do any paid or unpaid work. For the tier 5 is says you need a sponsorship from a licensed employer so that could be difficult for smaller budget projects (?).
> 
> ...



Its an interesting role for sure because you are more like 'attending' the session. You are not employed in the country or by the studio, you are essentially observing others do their jobs xD So I think most people would probably just come in on the standard. If it was a bigger production I imagine to check the boxes they would just go tier 5.

-DJ


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## C-Wave (Sep 16, 2017)

Daniel James said:


> Its an interesting role for sure because you are more like 'attending' the session. You are not employed in the country or by the studio, you are essentially observing others do their jobs xD So I think most people would probably just come in on the standard. If it was a bigger production I imagine to check the boxes they would just go tier 5.
> 
> -DJ


Daniel, congratulations on an excellent interview with Manchester Music.. saw that on YouTube
In my opinion it was Daniel James at his best: modest, fun, and very informative.. thanks for sharing your views, highly recommended watch.


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## gsilbers (Sep 16, 2017)

for the US there is the artist visa and artist green card. which is for example, an argentinian rock band coming to the US to play some concerts. im guessing EU has the same or similaR? 

if alan meyerson needs to go to EU to record for a big US movie then he does nothing. his manager calls the studio and deals with that. there are whole depts who deal with that!  
for the rest of us mortals its a lot of paperwork.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Sep 17, 2017)

gsilbers said:


> for the US there is the artist visa and artist green card. which is for example, an argentinian rock band coming to the US to play some concerts. im guessing EU has the same or similaR?
> 
> if alan meyerson needs to go to EU to record for a big US movie then he does nothing. his manager calls the studio and deals with that. there are whole depts who deal with that!
> for the rest of us mortals its a lot of paperwork.



But is an engineer really an artist  

It also seems like those options are for people who want to move there permanently.


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## gsilbers (Sep 17, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> But is an engineer really an artist
> 
> It also seems like those options are for people who want to move there permanently.



the artist visa is for both, poeple who live here and are artist and they keep extending it every few years. and also for poeple who live around the world and only come here to the US for a concert or presentation or anything that might being them money via their artist skills. I have friends herein LA that have lived many years just extending it and later moved to a green card. 

For engineers the term normally goes for another type of visa. "construction engineer" "software engineer" etc and those go along other work visas getting paid by company. as for mixing engineer.. even though it does bring in some philosofical questions about the "art" of it.. the artist visa reuqirements are very strict... and have gotten scriter over the past few years. if you google the requirement im sure youll soon see if it fits or not.


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## bryla (Sep 17, 2017)

Visitors visa. Period.


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## bryla (Sep 17, 2017)

Visitors visa. Period.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Sep 17, 2017)

bryla said:


> Visitors visa. Period.



Is that just what you should say (as I've done over the last couple of years) or is that legally OK?


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## Daniel James (Sep 17, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Is that just what you should say (as I've done over the last couple of years) or is that legally OK?



I am pretty sure a lot of it comes down to how the work is 'registered' if you are paid by the studio/venue/club whatever in the country you are going to then you are acting as a working immigrant and will need teir 5. Musicians/artists are usually getting paid in the country they are playing either by the promoters or the venues. A mixer is usually paid in the country the production is in (I imagine for Alan its mostly USA) So you are not there to 'work'


If you are essentially just 'attending' the session with all the work being based in your country of origin I think you will get away with the visitor visa. The immigration service has bigger things to worry about than people coming in for a few days for a session then leave.

-DJ


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## gsilbers (Sep 17, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Is that just what you should say (as I've done over the last couple of years) or is that legally OK?



simply. no. if you do any type of work in the US (which i know more about the immigratino laws) then you must say you are working. even if the north pole cookie monster is paying for it. you are entering the country to do some type of work.which is bascially some type of business instead of pleasure. 

NOW... with that said... you can just easily say visiting. do a recording and leave. the only issue would be if you get paid and that payment is tied to a W2 or 1099 or other US tax form.. then that could be an issue. although IRS and ICE dont talk to each other much and would only care if its a big amount of money. they def have bigger things ot worry about. but again... if you say business or doing some sort of work in any way or form then its an issue since well.. you already said something. its like a trigger word. but there wouldnt be an ICE agent here in the US checking up on you to see if you are working and they would not look into your immigratino status out of the blue. 

you could also ask a lawyer of course.


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## bryla (Sep 17, 2017)

Just like Audiobro told customs the cd's weren't worth that much (you paid huge money for the license which was digitally transferred) there will almost always be a loop as: You are not getting paid for attending the session but for the work you did previously (composer) or what you are going to be doing (mixing). You are not getting paid from the country where the recording is taking place but the country the production is from etc.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Sep 17, 2017)

bryla said:


> Just like Audiobro told customs the cd's weren't worth that much (you paid huge money for the license which was digitally transferred) there will almost always be a loop as: You are not getting paid for attending the session but for the work you did previously (composer) or what you are going to be doing (mixing). You are not getting paid from the country where the recording is taking place but the country the production is from etc.



That's what I've been planning to claim if there were ever any issues but as loopy as it is, I think it still does come down to being illegal as it's some sort of unpaid work. Having said that, I'm probably not going to be famous anytime soon so I don't think anyone will bat an eye for anything I do.


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## Jdiggity1 (Sep 18, 2017)

I assumed it was more the money trail that counts. ie. where's the money ending up and how is tax being paid on it.
In the above scenario, it would still be US income with US taxes, right?

Does a self-employed web developer or online entrepreneur worry about these things when they're working on their laptop while holidaying around the world? I wouldn't have thought so.
What about a photographer? Takes international happy snaps (working) but sells them to a local gallery or publication.

In each case, whatever money they make is coming into their local account, where they pay local taxes on it.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, but I would expect most of you to know not to take my advice by now anyway.


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## Scoremixer (Sep 18, 2017)

Most of the time these gigs last a few days, and people just risk going through on a visitors visa. Occasionally people get a metaphorical frisking at immigration (that includes composers+assistants, which is ludicrous given that they're usually responsible for the employment of dozens of musicians at the destination end but such is life) but I've never heard of someone actually being turned away or getting into trouble.

Sometimes there are exceptions that have to be handled officially, think composer working on a big musical, recording songs, prerecords, final score, wants 'his' guy over to handle it all, the kind of gig that goes on for weeks/months in chunks here and there.

Most of the time it ain't like that though. It's nice to imagine there are departments of people handling arrangements for engineers so they can seamlessly flow through life, but in reality production companies won't go through the hassle of arranging a visa when there's broadly equivalent pools of talent on either side of the Atlantic that come with less paperwork.


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